# The Firt Day of the Rest of MY Life



## Ynot

*The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

Although we have not yet filed, the end of my marriage is a forgone conclusion. We are to close on the sale of our house next Monday. From the closing we are walking down the hall to the other attorney's office to sign the dissolution papers. My wife is not interested in reconciliation. I cannot change her mind. I can control what she wants. All I can do is accept and move on.

It has been a month since she left. To this point I have ridden a roller coaster of emotion. It is time to get off and get on with MY life. In the past month I have sold my house, taken a new job and last week moved to a new city. This past weekend I spent setting up house in my new place. Today, I start my new job.

So, today is truly the first day of the rest of MY life. I see a lot of bitterness and anger in many of these threads and I truly and completely understand. I have come to conclude that while necessary, those emotions are counter productive and often self defeating. I am going to try to rid myself of them by focusing on the here and now and making MY life the best it can be. I don't know what the future holds but I intend to grab the helm and steer the ship of MY life from this point forward.

I hope to start making daily posts about my journey forward. By posting this on a public forum, I am in many ways committing myself to this pathway. I hope when I falter, there is some hard talk to get me back on track. I hope when I am successful, that others may learn.

So until later.


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## Sammy64

Good luck, i am right behind you. Keep posting ....


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## Hardtohandle

Good Luck Ynot.. 

I agree about the anger part and did my own share of going through that. I hope one day I will be care free as well and can end up feeling indifferent about my Ex spouse like many others post about being in different about their ex spouses. 

I think I am getting there, but I just can't see myself not ever caring about my Ex wife in a bad way in one way, shape or fashion. I just don't want anything good for her ever.. Even if I have the kids and the house and the money and the younger, better looking, more money making GF.. I'm just a d0uche that way I think.. I have a mean streak in me..

But I wholeheartedly agree its a wasted emotion. I will grow up one day myself.. 

Again Good luck.. Keep posting..


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## Almostrecovered

may this be the start of many happy firts


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## Chuck71

Most of the time...in our lives...we pass through black stormy clouds

yet discover the brightest moments of our existence occur...after the storm.

Best of luck Y, I am about 18 months into mine. I am in a much

better place. The Sun shines every day.


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## Ynot

Today was my first day at me new job. I spent the morning on boarding and then reported to my work place. The on boarding place was top notch. A lot of it dealt with corporate mission. I know much of it was propaganda, but the facilitators went into some details about it. I took a lot away from it because it really applies to life in general - things like accountability and communications. We talked a lot about a 1 to 1 ratio between saying something and doing something. It dredged up a lot of mistaken signs and missed opportunities from my relationship with my life. Especially when we discussed four key elements of any relationship - welcoming, learning, knowing and growing. 

When I reported to my work place I was a little disappointed - the place seems drab and worn out. Over the past few months they have been promoting remote work arrangements with only one or two days a week in office. After 90 days I can opt into a remote work arrangement, and may actually do so in order to have that much more time for myself. Out of the 20 people in my department 12 or 13 currently work remotely, so there won't be as many as I had hoped working with me.

I have been able to make my apartment livable for the time being. I got a deal on a couch from a buddy and he is going to deliver it tomorrow. Another benefit from my move is that I am now much closer to my sisters. So on Saturday I am going to see one of them and stop at Ikea to buy a few things while I am there. 

I can't get internet or cable until Saturday morning so I am keeping busy with finishing up apartment things - hanging curtains, placing furniture, finding places for the stuff that I brought.

The day was pretty smooth mentally as I was able to keep my mind off my marital difficulties. I signed up for my benefits today and will have coverage starting on the first, so I will soon be off my wife's plan, further severing my ties to her. I still had moments of overwhelming emotions where I had to find a quiet place to collect myself.

Tomorrow and Wednesday my son will be in town, so I will be going out to dinner with him, my daughter and her fiancée. Thursday there is a spinning class in the community fitness center that I may sign up for. As soon as I get settled in starting a workout routine is my next priority. I am also going to look into a racquetball league for the fall and winter. 

I am going to remake myself into a better me. Thanks for the encouragement and sorry if I am boring anyone.


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## Ynot

Second day on the job - more on boarding and a little work. My couch was delivered today so my apartment is a little more livable. A couple of friends from back at the old place delivered it so I got to visit with them for awhile. Later I got to meet both of my kids for dinner. My son is enroute back home from Chicago and I will be having dinner with both of them tomorrow. I kind of feel a sense of vindication because my STXW won't be seeing either of them for a while (I know, I shouldn't think that way but I still do)

Last nite I sort of took a step backwards. My STBXW texted me to see how my first day went. I asked her to call me instead because I hate texting and think it is so impersonal. She called and we discussed how the day went. She told me how nice it was for her because she only took 5 minutes to get to work, then to the gym and to get a haircut. I told her I was happy for her but that I wasn't really because I really don't want her to be happy without me. She got upset and said she had just called to ask about my day and we ended the conversation.

This morning I had to email her some insurance papers and I apologized for upsetting her. She claimed she wasn't upset and we exchanged several more emails. She said she disagreed that emails and texts were impersonal because they showed she was thinking about me (?)

Any way the rest of the day went fine. Tomorrow is the next first day of the rest of my life. I can only try to make it better than today!


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## movealong

> I told her I was happy for her but that I wasn't really because I really don't want her to be happy without me. She got upset and said she had just called to ask about my day and we ended the conversation.


Cut that s**t out. You are placing yourself in a very poor position. If you want her back saying that kind of stuff will make sure it never happens. If she doesn't want you back nothing you say is going to matter anyway. If you want to be "friends" with her, which I don't understand, then ask yourself if that is what one friend would say to another. If you just want it to be an amicable relationship then keep it more business-like and leave out the manipulative poor me stuff.

I know you're still hurting, but rub some dirt on it, put a band aid over it, or even pray about it, but quit dwelling on it. Ask yourself a simple question: Is this what I want to be feeling in 6 months to a year? If it is keep doing what you're doing, if not then start doing things to change you. You can't change her.

I would recommend reading "The Four Agreements" if you haven't already.


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## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> Second day on the job - more on boarding and a little work. My couch was delivered today so my apartment is a little more livable. A couple of friends from back at the old place delivered it so I got to visit with them for awhile. Later I got to meet both of my kids for dinner. My son is enroute back home from Chicago and I will be having dinner with both of them tomorrow. I kind of feel a sense of vindication because my STXW won't be seeing either of them for a while (I know, I shouldn't think that way but I still do)
> 
> Last nite I sort of took a step backwards. My STBXW texted me to see how my first day went. I asked her to call me instead because I hate texting and think it is so impersonal. She called and we discussed how the day went. She told me how nice it was for her because she only took 5 minutes to get to work, then to the gym and to get a haircut. I told her I was happy for her but that I wasn't really because I really don't want her to be happy without me. She got upset and said she had just called to ask about my day and we ended the conversation.
> 
> This morning I had to email her some insurance papers and I apologized for upsetting her. She claimed she wasn't upset and we exchanged several more emails. She said she disagreed that emails and texts were impersonal because they showed she was thinking about me (?)
> 
> Any way the rest of the day went fine. Tomorrow is the next first day of the rest of my life. I can only try to make it better than today!


STOP engaging her!
In order for her to truly feel your absense, you need to create a void. 
Practice indifference.


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## Ynot

Thanks! That is exactly the kind of encouragement I am looking for!

This evening she was a little miffed as she thought I had blocked her from texting me. So she called me to say she had tried to text me but it wouldn't go thru. She happened to call me while I was at dinner with our kids. She seemed disturbed about that and said she would let me go to enjoy the rest of my dinner. I asked my daughter's fiancée to look at my phone to see what the issue was with the texting. He fixed whatever it was and so I texted her that Aaron had fixed it. She said it was great that we could rely on our children to fix our technology, to which I replied "really!" End of discussion.

Day three of work involved a staff meeting which really reinforced my decision to take the job. Some big changes are coming which would have made my old job infinitely more difficult. I also did some actual work today, so that felt good.

Tomorrow is my first day without family around and I still have some unpacking and arranging to do around my apartment. Hopefully by Saturday the place will be totally livable.

Next weeks plans include working out. My son bought me a new racquetball racket so finding a league is also on the agenda as is the euchre league my apartment complex runs.

Tomorrow is the next first day of the rest of life. I am tired and need some rest to make it the best one yet!


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## Ynot

Up and at it by 6:00 AM. Took the dog for a walk to do his business. So far everyday I have taken a different route to explore the neighborhood. I finally found the potty park.

After work a trip to Lowes to buy the overhead lights I need and then more unpacking and rearranging.

Hopefully I will have more to do at work today as I migrate into work activity away from on boarding stuff.


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## Ynot

Up at 6:00am again. Dog has been walked and getting ready for work. Did some real work yesterday, but I have learned so much in the past few days that I barely remember most of it. I am sure it will all sink and become second nature.

Spent most of the evening talking to my sister on the phone. As I listened to myself talking I was realizing how abnormal the past normal really had become. I have noticed that more and more lately. Now I am trying to reconcile how I feel about that in my own mind

Made it to Lowes last nite. Got two ceiling fans to install - those will be tonite's projects along with putting together my spare bedroom. 

Tomorrow, I will finally get my cable and internet installed! My daughter and her fiancée are coming over to help me set up the TV and computer. Then we'll have lunch. After that I am headed to Cincy for dinner with two of my sisters and possibly a BBQ at my nephews.

This morning I woke up before the alarm and was lying there thinking about stuff. After a while I realized that I wasn't thinking of her or us, I was just thinking about stuff. It was a good realization. Yesterday was better than the day before and today will be better still!


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## EnjoliWoman

Yay! Many more steps forward than backward.  

It IS odd when you realize what "normal" is like. For me it was no longer walking on eggshells and it felt odd to do simple things like choose a channel or not worry about what would set him off - all of the mental checklists and mental maneuvering I had to do were exhausting. 

Glad you found the dog park and have projects and family there to listen or help out as well as to make plans with.


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## Ynot

End of the work week, facing the weekend. While I have some things to do tonite and tomorrow, I can't seem to stop thinking of Monday. All day at work people kept saying that there were things I could take care of on Monday. I was constantly reminded of the fact that I won't be here on Monday. Instead I will be selling my house and signing my dissolution papers. I almost broke down several times today thinking about it. I want to call my wife and beg her to reconsider filing the dissolution. I still can't grasp exactly why we can't give our separation time to see if we can work things out from afar before taking such a drastic step.

I would bet not just my own but also my daughter's life that there really is no one else in her life. So I truly do not feel an EA or PA is the issue. Someone mentioned to me in another thread that she is probably quite a few steps ahead of me mentally about walking away and probably has made up her mind to not step back. She says I need to heal. She says she is not promising me anything, but that maybe we can become friends again and if we can become friends anything could happen. OTOH, dissolution means we are both free of any obligation to each other so again, who knows? She may date and find out she had a really good thing with me. I may date and find out I had a really bad thing with her? Again who knows.

Logically and emotionally I am completely split on the issue. Logically, if I am going to find out what makes me happy, I need to be completely free of every limitation but my own to explore the world. And the same goes for her. So I understand that. But emotionally, I still love my wife and still want my family to become whole again. But emotionally and logically I know I can't make her love me.

Again the only thing I can do is take life one day at a time and see where it leads. I just hate this divide within my soul.


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## dajam

Ynot said:


> Thanks! That is exactly the kind of encouragement I am looking for!
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> Tomorrow is the next first day of the rest of life. I am tired and need some rest to make it the best one yet!



It is good to hear that things are moving forward, and I wake up everyday and and every day is easier to be on my own. One thing I have found, when it starts to get a bit uncomfortable a good night sleep and an early rise the next day make things go so much better.. 

Be strong.


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## Ynot

Positives and negatives from last nite. 
First the negatives. When I got home I started to install my fans. I opened the boxes and made sure I had all of the parts and tried to get started. The first thing I realized was that I didn't have screws to attach the bracket to the service box in the ceiling. I guess I could have run out and got them. But instead I decided to go get dinner across the street. 
I sat down at the bar and ordered a draft, when my phone rang. It was my sister and I couldn't hear her inside. So I went to the patio and found a place at the outside bar. Now the positives - I sat down a couple of empty seats from a nice looking lady who from all indications had just had a couple of Mich Ultras and had just finished her dinner. She was alone - by herself. I talked to my sister for a few moments and told her I would call her later. As I was finishing up my call, the woman's check came and I noticed that she had to put on reading glasses to read the bill. So after hanging up, I said "You have the same problem as me - I need to use reading glasses now too". We ended up talking for about ten minutes - just about things in general - the neighborhood, the local stores and restaraunts, work. Mostly just chatted. I introduced myself and she introduced herself. We shook hands and talked some more. She finished her beer and said she was going to go. I told her it was nice meeting her and that was that. Sorry but no tales of passion or anything like that.
As she was leaving and I was finishing my beer a guy walked in and some how we started talking about sports, later another guy sat down and we talked about music. I ended up spending about two hours and had three beers along with the dinner that I had intended to bring home to eat. No earth shattering events - but it was nice to know that I can still talk to people I don't know. Another positive is that I was able to engage an attractive woman in conversation and she didn't run off screaming! I actually think I have a lot to offer in the attraction department - I am tall, have a thinner athletic build (thanks to losing over 20 pounds through all of this - think basketball, not football), most of my hair (although it is graying), all of my teeth, I am intelligent and witty and have a good sense of humor. Most of the mental items I am going to have to encourage to come out after what I have been thru and the same goes for the physical items as well. My plan for today is to stop at a book store and pick up a few books about self improvement - some of them have been mentioned on the forum and then next week I start working out again.
Sorry for the long rambling post. Today will be better than yesterday and tomorrow better still!


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## dajam

Ynot said:


> No earth shattering events - but it was nice to know that I can still talk to people I don't know. Another positive is that I was able to engage an attractive woman in conversation and she didn't run off screaming! I actually think I have a lot to offer in the attraction department - I am tall, have a thinner athletic build (thanks to losing over 20 pounds through all of this - think basketball, not football), most of my hair (although it is graying), all of my teeth, I am intelligent and witty and have a good sense of humor. !


Awesome, a little positive feedback from life..... I have a local establishment I go to frequently, and the staff all know me as a good guy, the bartenders watch out for me. I can go there and be relaxed., engaged in conversation or just sit there... Always a good thing to have a place to go locally, get to know the staff and folks who frequent it. When you feel down, go there for nothing more than "outside" of the head noise...lol... I see you are in Ohio I have to sneak this in...MGOBLUE.


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## Ynot

So I went to Cincy yesterday to go to IKEA. In the past week I have spent more money on myself than I have at any time in the rest of my life. I bought a small dining room table and chairs. I just got done putting them together. I had bought another cabinet for my entertainment center, but got the wrong one (LOL). Looks like another trip is in my future - oh well another dinner with my sisters.

Later today it is back to the house to sort thru garage stuff and pick up some more clothes. I am not looking forward to this trip. On Monday we close on the sale and will then have 60 days to finish getting our stuff out. We (my wife and I) made a "date" to meet at the house next Sunday to start to sort thru 25 years of accumulation. Another trip I am not looking forward to.

After the closing we are supposed to cross the hall and sign our dissolution papers. As I said the other day I am so conflicted over this. She insists we do it now. Emotionally I am not ready to let go. Logically I completely understand. The next couple of days are going to be probably the worst two days of my life so far.

Part of me wants to ask her NOT to do this yet. I still haven't figured out how anyone can decide to just walk away from 25 years of shared memories, trials, tribulations, victories and life in general in less than a month without making some effort to try to fix the issues. I know that I will never meet another person who will have shared the bulk of my life and the same is true of her. I am still confused.

I guess though that I just have to accept it and move on. But then again part of me feels that that was a large part of my end of the problems in our marriage - I was too accepting and forgiving and not willing to stand up for me and my interests. Instead I often pushed them aside to take care of my "obligations". In the end it finally caught up with me and it really is devastating to think that ultimately that I have no other choice other than to accept it and move on when that was a primary issue in the first place.

One day at a time.


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## 6301

So you got through the first day of the rest of your life. Then the second and so forth. The idea is to take one step at a time. Each day it gets a bit easier and you get more used to your new life. 

I'm telling you this from experience and so far your doing good. Yeah you'll have your days when you reminisce but as time goes on, it will become less and less and when you do, the hurt will be slowly fading. 

You have your kids and your sisters and that's important because your not alone and they can help by filling a void or two but after a while, you'll find things to keep your interest and your new life will be yours. 

Adjusting to a new life single after being married takes time but there are a lot of people here that have been in the same position that your in (me included) and we survived and you will too. Just take it one step at a time.


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## EnjoliWoman

You are doing great, Ynot. I think you DO have a lot to offer. I also agree she probably has been thinking about this a lot longer than you think. I'm sorry she didn't try to let you know what was wrong or try to figure out what was wrong.

Maybe you could ask her to tell you when things went wrong or what happened? And assure her you only seeking some closure and some personal growth. Then again, maybe she doesn't know herself. Or you could simply determine the "why" isn't important; that you have this situation to deal with and how you got there is irrelevant.

Don't forget screws!


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## Ynot

Wow what a couple of days! Firs off yesterday an issue came up with the closing on our house. So I called my wife and got her voice mail and asked her to call me about it. Several hours later still no call. So I texted her to call me. I saw she had read the text but still no call. So texted her again asking if she was ignoring me for some reason.. She texted back that she was in the middle of something and would call me later. So eight hours later - still no call. So I called her again, left another message, sent her another text, sent a FB message and an email and got no response.
Finally this morning she called at 7AM and said her phone had died and she didn't see that I had called and hadn't been on FB (her profile said she had logged in several times) Anyways we discussed the issue at hand and she said we could meet at the house after closing to start sorting things out. I told her I thought we were going to do that on the 5th. She said she didn't know about the 5th because she was trying to organize some event for work and they could only do it on a Sunday.
So we go to the closing and there were no issues. We had to wait a few moments to see the other atty to sign our dissolution papers. As we sat there I told her that we did NOT have to do this, but she said we DID. There is nothing to discuss so all I can do is accept.
Afterward we went back to the house to discuss dividing the proceeds from the house. After that was finished, she started to get ready to leave so she could go to the bank. I told her before she left that I had something to say.
First I told her that I never agreed to the dissolution. All that I did was accept it because I had no other choice. So in the future she was to stop saying that WE agreed, because I mostly certainly did NOT.
I went on to tell her that I was taking her at her word, and holding her to them. She said she wanted us to try to be friends since in her words "we are forever bound together by our children"
Then I told her that since she felt we were so unhappy that one the biggest issues that I had had was that I felt that I was always last on her list. She seemed able to find time for everyone and anything but me. And I was thru with that. If made plans those were the plans and her friends or work would just have to accept them, because I wasn't. So our plans for the 5th were our plans and I couldn't care any less about her work or her friends being put off because I wasn't taking it anymore.
Then I told her that yesterday was unacceptable. Another issue I had was that always had to engage in text conversations while we were doing something. I don't know how many "moments" were ruined by non-stop texts from one of her friends while we at dinner or spending time together. I told her that for the past several years, there had been the ONE person on earth who loved her more than anyone else she would meet sitting just inches from her as she interacted with her friends via text or her virtual FB buddies. Her phone "died" was BS. I waited plenty of times so she could return a call or text a reply and again I couldn't give a rat's azz if she was in the middle of something. I don't make frivolous calls or texts to tell her what color toilet paper I just bought and that in the future she was to treat me with the same courtesy and consideration she had given all of her friends over the years at my expense because I wasn't going to take that either.
I told her if she was really serious about being friends for our kids sakes that those were boundaries that I was setting so she had better agree with them or whatever happened would all be on her. She agreed that she would abide by those terms and agreed to meet on the 5th. 
I really don't think she had ever even considered her actions before. But I for one intend to hold her accountable or she will just be left out. She has isolated herself from our family so she had better abide by the terms or she will be leaving herself out of future gatherings, events and get togethers. I am thru allowing her to dictate my schedule on her whim. My daughter has adopted a similar attitude with her. We shall see.


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## Ynot

Yesterday was the first day back to work after the "signing". Things went well at work. I requested the tentative date of our dissolution hearing off with the caveat that it was subject to change at the whim of the court. 
I finally got my desk phone yesterday, so I now have a direct line. I sent emails to my family with the number in case they needed to get ahold of me at work. Those on the list include my STBXW. She sent me an email back thanking me. Later as I was getting ready to leave work she sent me another email telling me how upset our daughter was because she was going to abandon their favorite cat to one my wife's cousins.
My wife said she didn't understand(?) I sent her a text saying that I saw her email but was on my out the door. I proceeded to tell her that maybe our daughter felt that way because just like everyone else, she felt that her mother had walked away from everyone and anybody that she loves. I then corrected that to loved. She said she thought it was fine and she was sure it would work out. I told her it really isn't fine, but that it would eventually work out, just perhaps not as she was intending.
After I got home I worked out - for the first time in about 6 months. I am sure I will sore. I also checked into a Euchre league that starts playing tonite. So I have something to do tonite!
Later I attended a meeting of people in my profession and got to meet a few more people and spent two hours discussing professional issues with them. It was an enjoyable meeting.
After that I had to go to my daughter's to pick up my dog. She was at work, but her fiancée was there. I spent a some time talking to him, filling him in. I told him about the events of the past few days. He filled me in on how my daughter had really gotten into it with her mother earlier. Apparently my daughter has decided that she is going to start standing up to her as well (yesterday we discussed how I had stood up to her). My daughter was most angry that she had not been consulted and a decision had been made (once again) with no input from anybody else involved. She feels as though her mother treats her like a 12 year old and she feels as though her mother is acting like a 12 year old who acts with no concept of the consequences of her actions.
We have bot discussed the fact that her mother has now isolated herself away from the rest of us, so from now on it will be up to her to reach out to us, because these are the choices she made. We will see if she ever realizes what all she has walked away from because of some "unhappiness" which she has heretofore been able to explain to anyone else.
Oh well off to work, home for a work out and then over to euchre.


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## Ynot

I made it thru another day. I had a few moments of feeling overwhelmed but I also had a few moments of complete calm, which I hadn't really felt in quite some time.

Work is starting to click. I am navigating my way thru the system. Before I had my computer standing alone. Emails, IM and colleague phone calls were just not there. Sometimes technology really can be beneficial. Although I am not expected to start hitting production numbers, I have increased my output every day and I am not really questioning whether I would be able to meet the standards. As I learn from my interactions with others I feel I am really beginning to understand exactly what is expected of me and think that it is very achievable.

After work, I did a cardio and abs workout. I am taking things slowly as I have not worked out for some time. This morning when I got up I could feel the soreness in my legs, so I am sure as the day progresses I will feel it in other places too. Tonite is a spinning class. I am going to do my weight training tonite followed by the spinning class.

I went over, hoping to at least sub in the euchre league. Unfortunately everyone showed up, but I was able to get my name on the sub list, so there is always next week.

The league was in the clubhouse, so I had dinner and a few beers while I was there. I met one of the guys I had talked to last week along with another guy. We all got to talking and it turns out that we are divorced. Bill seemed pretty bitter and not very happy. Walter, the new guy seemed more well adjusted. Both of them told me things would get better. Bill is a lonely guy. Walter seemed more outgoing and spoke of dating and women our age. It was interesting to hear their perspective on their lives. 

Had minimal interaction with my STBXW, but it was cordial and businesslike. I think the boundaries are being adhered to pretty well. 

Another new day begins, it is up to me to make the most of it.


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## Ynot

I mentioned previously talking to a woman the other nite and how the fact that I didn't burst into flames and she didn't run away screaming because some creep was talking to her, really felt like an ego boost. 

One of the guys I was talking to last nite, was one of the guys I talked to last Friday. Bill and I were just talking about me moving forward and my journey. I reminded him of meeting him last week and he remembered that I had been talking to that woman. He said I seemed poised and in control, that I had her attention and was engaging her. He said she seemed interested in what I was saying and it appeared as though it was a nice pleasant conversation between two mutually engaged adults.

I don't know Bill, so I am not hanging my hat on his opinion, but it was another thing that makes me think that I really can do this!


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## movealong

Of course you can, and will, do this. You have two basic choices in life:

1. Take what life throws at you and make a life of it.
2. Crawl into a corner in the fetal position and give up.

That you are on this website, and getting out into the world again, means you choose option one. Good choice.


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## Chuck71

I saw a dark hole....damn it was miserable. I climbed out and while I

did.....I felt pain I never thought was possible. When I reached the surface,

it was sunny. Darkest before the dawn. The four worst times in my life

were followed by the most wonderful times. Was it the before / after contrast

or leaving behind what was meant to be?


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## Ynot

No major issues or events yesterday. Just a normal day all in all.

I went to work and had a productive day. I cam home and stopped at the grocery store for a few things. I went over and worked out with the free weights. Then went back for a spinning class. The instructor never showed but I spent 30 minutes talking to some of my neighbors so it was all good.

One thing that happened was a brief email exchange with my STBXW. It seems she suddenly realizes that the 60 days we had to get out of our house began over a month ago and not earlier this week. Suddenly she is in a panic because WE need to get moving on this and she just has so much going on. I simply replied that this had been something I had been attempting to engage her in ever since she made HER decision. She replied that it was just going to be a lot of work and we didn't necessarily need to be there together, that she would go down in the evenings after work. It was mostly just cleaning. I explained to her that we had 25 years of life's accumulation that needed to be sorted out. Which is considerably more involved that simply running the sweeper and wiping down walls. Our stuff is interspersed and has been for years. It makes no sense for her to go thru a pile, only to have me go thru the pile again later of vice versa. I don't know what may be important to her and she doesn't know what may be important to me. Heck I have found stuff I had completely forgotten that I had and decided I wanted. I left the conversation by saying. I am sorry you are busy and I understand your work issues. BUT that fact is this a consequence of YOUR actions and so you simply need to make the time to take care of it. There consequences to your actions and this is one of them.
My feelings are I can only be there on weekends so she might have to miss out on a GNO or concert or whatever things her and her acolytes have planned for that day. Accountability is what this all about and from now I am holding her accountable for her actions, inactions and decisions.


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## Chuck71

I swore my parents had me just to torture me

and use me for cheap labor. But..... what they taught me and what I

realized after college.....damn...I could not thank them enough.

Accountability and responsibility were two major themes.

Pop was "old school" you work 8-4 either show up at 730 or stay till 430

does not matter if you're needed. Or 745 to 415. Let them know you

appreciate your job and they will fight he!! and high water to keep you.

This applies in relationships too


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## Ynot

Funny story from this week:

First the background. Back when we were happily married, my friends used to refer to my wife as the "Vortex". She would get some scheme going and try to draw everyone and everything into her swirling whirl of activity. The joke was to avoid the event horizon and not be sucked into whatever plot she was trying to hatch. My buddy even made me a "Vortex Avoidance Hat" for my birthday one year. It was a tin foil cone with a brim and a couple of coils running up the outside.
So earlier this week I was at the bookstore looking for good books about coping with my divorce. As I looked over the depressingly large number of selections, one of the just jumped out at me. I just had to buy it! The name of the book is "Break Free From the DIVORTEX" about how to "Power Through Your Divorce and Launch Your New Life". The Divortex is defined as "the gravitational pull that forces your thoughts and energy to endlessly orbit around your divorce and your ex."
The book is aimed primarily at women, but what the heck, coaches study the other teams playbooks to design game plans. So I figured it will still be a good read. So far I have only gotten thru the first chapter. I have already gleaned a ton of good advice. I plan on reading the rest this evening and hitting the sack early. It has been a heckuva long week and I have to head back to the house to sort thru 25 years of accumulated life this weekend.


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> Funny story from this week:
> 
> First the background. Back when we were happily married, my friends used to refer to my wife as the "Vortex". She would get some scheme going and try to draw everyone and everything into her swirling whirl of activity. The joke was to avoid the event horizon and not be sucked into whatever plot she was trying to hatch. My buddy even made me a "Vortex Avoidance Hat" for my birthday one year. It was a tin foil cone with a brim and a couple of coils running up the outside.
> So earlier this week I was at the bookstore looking for good books about coping with my divorce. As I looked over the depressingly large number of selections, one of the just jumped out at me. I just had to buy it! The name of the book is "Break Free From the DIVORTEX" about how to "Power Through Your Divorce and Launch Your New Life". The Divortex is defined as "the gravitational pull that forces your thoughts and energy to endlessly orbit around your divorce and your ex."
> The book is aimed primarily at women, but what the heck, coaches study the other teams playbooks to design game plans. So I figured it will still be a good read. So far I have only gotten thru the first chapter. I have already gleaned a ton of good advice. I plan on reading the rest this evening and hitting the sack early. It has been a heckuva long week and I have to head back to the house to sort thru 25 years of accumulated life this weekend.


LOL.... when you had a problem / issue / head cold / etc.... how

attentive to you was she? same setting but with someone else...

a friend of hers, co-worker, FB friend...how attentive was she to

their dilemma?


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> I saw a dark hole....damn it was miserable. I climbed out and while I
> 
> did.....I felt pain I never thought was possible. When I reached the surface,
> 
> it was sunny. Darkest before the dawn. The four worst times in my life
> 
> were followed by the most wonderful times. Was it the before / after contrast
> 
> or leaving behind what was meant to be?


I know what you are saying. I have had several wake up moments this week that have made me realize exactly how deep of a hole I had placed myself in. I realize that some of my marital problems were of my own making. I am also sure that all of these issues, both her's and mine fed on each other and strengthened each other. I was depressed, she pulled away. She pulled away so I got further depressed. I got further depressed and she pulled away more etc etc. I don't know which came first, but it became a vicious self-replicating cycle of negativity. I have been away from the cycle for a few weeks and have been forced to engage in new thought processes. Which is where I have been waking up to where I had been and realizing that I had a lot of blame in my situation.
I am beginning to look forward to my self-discovery process. I don't know where it will end, or if it ever will. But the fear of the unknown is being replaced with the thrill of discovery. I don't understand all of it, but I can learn from it. As I learn from it, the understanding will come.


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## Chuck71

Accepting your part is a huge step. The fault never is exactly 50 / 50

nor is it 100 / 0. I went through a period of depression . She did too. 

It's hard to act in a single form when you were used to doing things

as a couple. Any major lifestyle change takes time.


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## Ynot

Chuck I completely agree. Until this week I simply could not understand why. Plugging my part into the equation has helped me to make a lot more sense out of the mess. Knowing what mistakes that I made is lighting a pathway forward in my recovery. I know it is still early in my recovery and I have miles to go, but at least I can know that I am going in the right direction.


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## Chuck71

an NFL player never understands why the coach screams at him or why the fans

curse at him......until he sees the game film a day or two after.

Did I mess up as in doing idiotic things? No...but what I did is

allow resentment to build "thinking I was in the right" and

as long as I was in the right...I would always win. I married for 

forever and...that means I lost. But learning what I did....maybe,

in the end, I won. But winning never promises coming out unscathed.


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## Ynot

Long weekend. Last week started off like crap - on Monday we closed on the sale of our property and then immediately signed the dissolution papers. From there it was straight uphill. 
Many positive social and professional interactions. Some of the leading to some deep self awareness both positive and negative. The positives were how well respected I actually am in my profession. The negatives were the realization of the depths of y depression. As I stated earlier once I plugged my "numbers" into the equation the whole thing started making sense to me an much of my anxiety vanished with this understanding.
My STBXW and I had made plans to meet today to try to divvy up our stuff. I went over yesterday to continue to sort out my garage and office. Just driving into town sucked almost all my positive energy straight out of me. Entering the house and seeing the emptiness and disorder took the rest of it. 
I became very emotional and spent most of the afternoon and evening talking myself down. I finally came to the conclusion that it is what it is and that I was partly to blame. I made a decision that I would thank my wife for forcing my out the terrible rut I had made for myself. 
Until this happened I had never realized how truly depressed I was. While I would never take my own life, I was perfectly content to allow nature to take its course. I had had a lesion on my temple for a couple of years. Everyone told me to have it checked out. I said I would but never did. I thought that I couldn't care any less if it was cancer. If I died from it, the world would be a better place without a miserable SOB like me in it. That is a terrible way to look at life and in retrospect I had become for all intents and purpose hopeless. I felt as though there were no hope and had begun to live my life accordingly.
When my wife came over, I went over a few things that I had brought back with me for her, then I thanked her. I told her about my moments of self discovery and I thanked her for forcing me out my rat hole and into the light. I told her I was sorry that I had placed her in the position to make the decision she had made. I told her that no matter what permutation "WE" eventually arrived at, that I was going to be not just OK, but better than before. I don't want to become the man she married, because in all honesty I didn't especially like that guy either. I was going to be better than the man she married and that would make me a better man, a better dad, a better friend and partner regardless of where the two of us ended up.
We hugged each other and even cried together for a moment. She said she was glad that I had begun to realize what I had become.
The rest of the day went smoothly. We worked together to sort and separate. She left to go home and I returned to mine. We hugged goodbye and made plans to have dinner on Wednesday when she comes down to visit our daughter. We also made plans to get together in two weeks to try to finish up the move.


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## Ynot

Yesterday was not a great day. I didn't really backslide, I just didn't seem to move forward. Work went fine, I improved my output a little more. I had some instances where the emotions started to well up, but I was able to recompose myself and keep focused.
When I got home, I had the occasion to speak to my youngest sister for the first time in while and I became very emotional. My dad had made each of his grandkids a small table and benches. The one he made for my daughter was in the basement and I thought she might want it, since he had died before she had kids. She actually has the original one that he had made for her. When I called her she asked how I was doing and it all came out again. I know that venting and talking is part of the process, so I guess that is to be expected.
Earlier in the day I called mu future DIL to ask her about a PCP in this area, since she practices family medicine. She called me shortly after I had talked to my sister. I had not really discussed things with her and once again it all came out. I ended up being on the phone with her for several hours.
Needless to say it was rather late by the time I finished our call and by that time it was too late to get much accomplished. So I went to bed.
Sleep is becoming slightly more regular, but I have yet to have a truly refreshing sleep. Since this began early on I was hardly sleeping. Now I am able to sleep for two or three hours before waking up and then having trouble getting back to sleep. Last night was no exception.
Today I am going to try to do better. I know that talking and venting is part of the process, but I also know that acting and doing is part of it too. I did too much of the former and not enough of the latter yesterday. I had wanted to work out and attend a yoga class, but never got over there to do it. Today I will work out and read some more.
If it is going to happen it is up to me.


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## HeartbrokenW

Sleep was always hard for me too. When my XH walked away, I had a real difficult time falling asleep in our old bed. I was still huddled on my side as if he would be coming in. I'd lay awake for hours trying to fall asleep. Finally I went out and bought new satin sheets and comforter, added more water to the bed, and laid down right in the middle instead of on the edge and amazingly, it really helped. There were times that I would also walk on the treadmill until I couldn't go anymore and I'd just fall asleep from exhaustion. It does get better with time. Its been a year and half now since the D has been final.


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## Ynot

Today was a great day at work. I went in focused and set out to accomplish my goal. We have a scoring system to keep track of our production. My goal was to get to ten production points a day within 90 days. I got 10.5 in just my eleventh day at it. Tomorrow I am going to try for 12. I want to be averaging over ten before the end of the month.


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## Ynot

Well yesterday all in all was a good day. I previously mentioned meeting my 90 bench mark on just my 11th day at work. When I got home I went across the street and did 20 minutes of cardio, followed by an upper body work out. I am really out of shape! Then I took care of some mundane things that I had been putting off. I activated a new ATM card. I registered for my insurance benefits at work and for my prescription card. I transferred some money from Paypal from a sale I had made on Ebay. Yesterday afternoon, I deposited the check from the sale of my house. I took care of my car insurance and have to finish that up today. I feel as though I accomplished something yesterday.
Today, I am going to keep the intensity up at work. I have some errands to run at lunch and then I am supposed to meet my STBXW and daughter for dinner. after work. My STBX called me last nite about what she had gotten done at the house and honestly it seemed like I couldn't get her off of the phone. I am going to try to project healthy self-confidence and contentment this evening. We will see how it goes. One day at a time.


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## Ynot

Last nite went well. I met my daughter (A) and my STBX (H) at an outdoor mall. I greeted each of them with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. I was still dressed for work and H commented that I looked nice. We had a pleasant dinner and talked about our days at work etc. Afterwards we all went to Trader Joe's because H wanted to pick some things up that she couldn't get in Canton. All in all a pleasant evening. A drove us back to my car because I had some stuff for her. We made the exchange and I gave each of them a hug and kiss on the cheek goodbye. Then we went our separate ways.
I think it went well, I tried to project a more confident, happier and more open me. We ate Mexican and I ate my grilled peppers, which I usually had passed on before. I talked about trying different foods and talked about the yoga classes they offer here.
Later on H texted me to thank me for paying for dinner ($20 - including tip,, thank you groupon) I replied that it was my pleasure. I also told her to have a safe trip. And exchanged a few texts about a flea problem that we can't seem to get rid of (now she has them in her car) Some of it is just the heebie-jeebies, though.
Later I called A, she said she had had a nice day with her mother and they had discussed current issues. She had asked H to give me a chance before moving on. H replied, that she would but that she wasn't making any promises that we could work things out.
I still harbor some hope that at some point we may get back together. However at this point it doesn't matter. All that matters is that I get to be as healthy as I can be, as soon as I can be. That way no matter what happens, I will be better able to handle it and continue moving forward without starting from scratch again.
Anyways, when I got home, I finally got to turn on the TV. I started catching up on this season's Boardwalk Empire. Maybe tonite I'll catch another episode after my work out and dinner.
Last nite was the first real nite's sleep I have had in some time. The alarm even woke me up this morning. Up to now I have slept for a few hours and then laid in bed staring at the ceiling for hours.
Today will better than yesterday.


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## Ynot

Well all in all yesterday was better than the day before.
Work went well, I have steadily increased my numbers all week. If I get after it hard today. I may actually average my expected production numbers for the week. I am currently at 38.75. So all I need is 11.25 points. I am finding my job to be easier than I had originally anticipated. I am catching on to the idea behind what we do, which makes what I am doing far easier in my opinion. I realize that the last 17 years have prepared me for this opportunity.
Minimal contact with the ex. Mostly "just nice seeing you yesterday" and some joking around. I thanked her for the compliment and told her that I had meant to thank her for choosing those clothes for me. She said my wait loss looked good on me and we had a short back and forth on how it is easier to maintain than it is to lose. 
After work I finally was able to get some info from the IRS that I have been trying to get for several weeks. I have spent hours on hold during lunches and finally waited them out yesterday evening. So I can get them off my back now.
I went and worked out. 20 minutes of cardio, followed by a three set upper body routine. Just as I was finishing up, I noticed that the instructor was there for the spinning class. I went last week and nobody showed. So I decided to give it a go. I had taken a few spinning classes before and had really liked it. 50 minutes later I had had the best sweat that I had had in probably two years and it felt great. I will probably feel it over the next couple of days though.
When I got home (walked across the street) I paid off a small credit card balance and several small bills I still owe from my business. I cut a check to pay off the IRS and set up my rent to be taken automatically. I still have a few other accounts to set up for auto pay,, but I can do that this evening.
Then another episode of Boardwalk Empire and off to be by 11:00. Sleep cam easy and was generally pretty solid although I did get up before the alarm
On to today's adventures.


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## Ynot

Ynot said:


> Well all in all yesterday was better than the day before.
> Work went well, I have steadily increased my numbers all week. If I get after it hard today. I may actually average my expected production numbers for the week. I am currently at 38.75. So all I need is 11.25 points. I am finding my job to be easier than I had originally anticipated. I am catching on to the idea behind what we do, which makes what I am doing far easier in my opinion. I realize that the last 17 years have prepared me for this opportunity.
> Minimal contact with the ex. Mostly "just nice seeing you yesterday" and some joking around. I thanked her for the compliment and told her that I had meant to thank her for choosing those clothes for me. She said my wait loss looked good on me and we had a short back and forth on how it is easier to maintain than it is to lose.
> After work I finally was able to get some info from the IRS that I have been trying to get for several weeks. I have spent hours on hold during lunches and finally waited them out yesterday evening. So I can get them off my back now.
> I went and worked out. 20 minutes of cardio, followed by a three set upper body routine. Just as I was finishing up, I noticed that the instructor was there for the spinning class. I went last week and nobody showed. So I decided to give it a go. I had taken a few spinning classes before and had really liked it. 50 minutes later I had had the best sweat that I had had in probably two years and it felt great. I will probably feel it over the next couple of days though.
> When I got home (walked across the street) I paid off a small credit card balance and several small bills I still owe from my business. I cut a check to pay off the IRS and set up my rent to be taken automatically. I still have a few other accounts to set up for auto pay,, but I can do that this evening.
> Then another episode of Boardwalk Empire and off to be by 11:00. Sleep came easy and was generally pretty solid although I did get up before the alarm
> On to today's adventures.


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## Ynot

All in all it was a good week. On the work front I was able to average for the week my expected output after ninety days in just my third week on the job. I definitely feel as though my focus is coming back. For the past several years I swore I had adult onset ADD.
Managed to get in three good upper body workouts together with three good cardio sets. That together with the spinning, which I am just now starting to feel, makes me feel pretty good about myself - physically.
Mentally, I am still experiencing some very specific anxieties, which is still a lot better than the all encompassing general anxiety I was feeling. Since saying thanks and sorry to H, most of the tension has been loosened. As I said, I still have some very specific topics of anxiety, and I will have to keep on working on those.
Last nite I went to my daughter's for dinner. Earlier in the day I had been feeling a little anxious about the weekend. I am getting ready to head to Cincy today, but other than that I had no specific plans. Dinner with my daughter and fiancée took care of last night. It was nice to spend some time with them without the drama of the past few weeks.
Afterwards I came home. It was about 10:00PM. I took the dog ot for a walk. The club house across the street looked pretty busy. So after taking the dog back home. I decided to go over for a drink. Bad decision! It was later than I usually go. The crowd was much younger. Everyone was paired or grouped together. So I sat down at the bar by myself. I ordered a beer and watched the ball game for a little while. I looked around the room and saw all the smiling, laughing faces and realized just how alone I was. The one lone face that I recognized was one of the guys I had met before. He was on the other side of the bar, desperately talking to everyone and anyone who walked by. Most people were cordial, but you could see he was desperate. So I guess, I recognized another behavior to avoid.
Anyways, I drank my beer, came back home. Watched another episode of BWE (I am almost caught up) and went to bed. I slept in until 6:30. I got up took the dog for a walk and went back to be until 8:30. The I went and worked out.
I hadn't slept that long in two months. I also hadn't eaten as much as I had at my daughter's in quite a while. But now I am off to Cincy. I am going to meet my sisters for dinner. Tomorrow, I will be putting together my home office and entertainment center and my daughter and her fiancée are coming over for sushi at lunch time.


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## Ynot

Made it hru a weekend alone. Dinner in Cincy was good. I we went to a Tapas restaurant. I had never been to one before so it was a new experience. We ordered a bunch of different things and we all shared. I ate a few new things I had never tried before. Trying different things is something I have decided would be a good change, so that was a good experience.
Before dinner I shopped for some new home office furniture. I bought a new desk with a matching shelf, a chair, and a locking file cabinet. I got them all put together yesterday. I still have to hang the shelf. But I need some wall anchors for that. So I guess it is off to Home Depot tonight.
Yesterday A and her fiancée Aa came over. We went out for lunch had some exceptional sushi at a local restaurant. Then Aa set up my home theatre system for me. I think I am going to really enjoy it. The sound is fantastic! 
Since I will be headed to HD, I am going to check out the LA Fitness just up the road. Their website said they have racquetball courts and leagues and the price was affordable. The only other place I could find nearby with courts wanted over twice as much for a membership. I already have a full fitness center directly across the street from my apartment, so I don't really want to pay thru the nose just to play some racquetball.
Tonight I might give the power yoga class a try. On Wednesday they are offering a Vinyasha yoga class as well. 
No real contact with H this weekend. I had texted her Saturday morning. I thought she said she had a fundraiser this week end, so I asked her to give me a call if she had the chance at some point. She texted back that she was at a fundraiser Saturday and was going to be working Sunday morning and had plans for Sunday afternoon and evening but she would call me this morning before work.
I just said OK. I really just have a few things to go over with her. I think she is leaving the door open for communications but wants to keep me at arm's length for the time being. Completely understandable given the situation.
Anyways, it is a new week with new adventures and today is the next first day in the rest of my life.


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## Ynot

Yesterday morning was pretty much what I had expected. I was heading for work when the phone rang at 7:25AM. My wife was on the other end and we went over the few tings I needed to talk about. Then she wanted to talk about the holidays and getting together as a family. She would like to host something, since she says she is centrally located. Which she is until you factor in Charlotte NC. Once that is factored in the center shifts south and she is an outlier. A lot of it will depend on A's schedule. So we will see. 
Another productive day at work. Hit my goal and a little more. Could have gotten more but lot's of down time waiting for answers too questions. Also learned how o do a few more things in the system. I am really loving the fact that once I am done, I am done. I walk out of the office at 4:30 and never give it another thought. What a huge difference from my recent past. I was never not thinking about my job.
I got home from work and did another good cardio/upper body work out. I missed out on the yoga class. But I talked to the instructor afterwards and will definitely be there next Monday. There is another one later this week as well that I want to get to.
Then I went to check out a racquetball court. The place I thought I had found did NOT have a racquetball court. They had a volleyball court they used for racquetball. The court is much larger than regulation and so I passed. They really didn't care that that was all I was interested in, they just wanted to sign me up. Thanks, but no thanks.
Anyways, another day awaits.


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## HeartbrokenW

Ynot said:


> Then she wanted to talk about the holidays and getting together as a family. She would like to host something, since she says she is centrally located.


Why? Why pretend you are a family when she drove a wedge into that? Things are different now..why pretend that they aren't?


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## Ynot

HeartbrokenW said:


> Why? Why pretend you are a family when she drove a wedge into that? Things are different now..why pretend that they aren't?


Regardless of what happens between US, we (as in she and I and our kids are still a family). The wedge was not driven entirely by her. I have a lot of the blame as well. I am working on my issues. She may have yet to face hers or may in fact be facing them now. Regardless, there is no pretending that we both still totally love our children. There is no pretending we are still family. No one is pretending things aren't different. But the differences don't mean that our family is not still our family.
I simply refuse to allow the bitterness and anger I see so much of here effect my life going forward. I understand that all divorces and relationships are different, but I for one want no part of the bitterness and angriness I see from others. We may have grown apart and need to be separated. We may eventually grow back together. Regardless we will always be connected thru our kids and there is no changing that.


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## HeartbrokenW

I don't think I'm bitter, or angry. But I want nothing to do with my ex. We're a year and half past the divorce now.. he's remarried. I don't want anything to do with him or his woman. We have 14 yo together. But we don't talk unless it concerns her. She's old enough to make her own arrangements to see her dad, plus he's a truck driver so he's never home anyway, so I have practically no contact with him the way things are. And I'm fine with that. He sees her when he's in town, otherwise he don't. We don't share holidays or birthdays or any such get together. He' had a boat sitting in my backyard tho that I'm getting pretty tired of looking at and wish he'd move... I can be civil to him, but after what he did to our family, I'm fine with keeping my distance.


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## Ynot

HeartbrokenW said:


> I don't think I'm bitter, or angry. But I want nothing to do with my ex. We're a year and half past the divorce now.. he's remarried. I don't want anything to do with him or his woman. We have 14 yo together. But we don't talk unless it concerns her. She's old enough to make her own arrangements to see her dad, plus he's a truck driver so he's never home anyway, so I have practically no contact with him the way things are. And I'm fine with that. He sees her when he's in town, otherwise he don't. We don't share holidays or birthdays or any such get together. He' had a boat sitting in my backyard tho that I'm getting pretty tired of looking at and wish he'd move... I can be civil to him, but after what he did to our family, I'm fine with keeping my distance.


HB, I don't know your particular situation, but from what you have posted here on this thread, it is apparent that your marriage/divorce was/is very different than my own. Your username implies that perhaps you were completely blindsided or perhaps I am just reading into it. 
Initially I too felt blindsided but as I have come to terms with it, I have realized that I shared in the blame. In fact it was my feelings of hopelessness about life that drove the wedge into our otherwise successful marriage. I am working diligently to never allow hopelessness to creep back into my life. It isn't something that just happens one day. It does in fact creep into your life, a little at a time, day after day. But only if we allow it. I am not going to allow it anymore.


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## Ynot

Well yesterday turned into another winner. Another good day at work. I had some new and more difficult situations and I didn't think I would make my goal. Then in the last 15 minutes I had three easy ones and soared over the top.
Earlier in the day I had a text exchange with H. She had a big meeting today and I texted her to say good luck. She thanked me. Later she texted me to tell me about the outcome. She was not very happy but I sent her some encouragement. I ended with some joking back and forth.
My son, J was in town for the day. Last evening he, my daughter her fiancée and I met for dinner at a Thai restaurant. It was a nice relaxing dinner without he drama of the last few weeks. The night before he had seen his mother and we had a brief discussion about that, but it did not dominate our conversation.
J told me I was looking a lot better than I had been a week ago. I explained that I was sleeping thru the night and was trying to work out regularly and eating right. He said it showed.
After dinner Aa went home and J,A and I walked down the street to a hookah bar. I was telling them that I had felt that I had lived my life to fill roles over the past 25 years But now that I had set aside the role playing I never dreamt that I would be sitting in a hookah bar trying to educate my daughter in the fine art of inhaling smoke and smoking etiquette.
It was a nice evening, I was home by 9:30 and got to bed by 11:00. It was another experience that made me realize how much of life I had been missing out on while living in the isolation of a small town. Don't get me wrong, it was a great place to raise our children in. Going to a small school allowed them opportunities that they would have never had a mega-school. But once they were gone the cocoon became a coffin that was slowly suffocating me and my marriage. I don't know if it is too late to resuscitate the marriage, but I feel a whole lot better being able to live life with more spontaneity. So far t has been an experience and today, a new adventure begins


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## Ynot

Yesterday was rather unimpressive. I had another productive day at work, and hit my goal. But I had a lot of small issues hat thwarted really blowing past my goal.
I am kind of at a disadvantage where I sit at work. My cube is the first in a row, so my back is to everyone else. I am going to need to socialize more when I have some downtime.
After work, I went across the street and did another round of cardio (30 minutes this time!) together with another upper body work out. I am slowly adding weight. I have to keep reminding myself that right now it is about getting all the parts to move and the correct form and worry about the weight later.
Little contact with H. A few texts and a short phone call. Apparently there are super fleas at the house that have resisted three bombings. Next step is exterminator. We need to get it under control because we both need to get stuff from the house. Neither of us want fleas at our new places.
Well today is my last work day of the week. I am taking tomorrow off. I am headed back to the house for some clean out and to get more of my stuff. I hope to get ahold of an exterminator today and get them out there tomorrow.. Saturday H and I are supposed to try to finish up. But I think it will take another weekend because the basement has not really been touched yet. We shall see.
Off to a new day to see what I will make of it.


----------



## LongWalk

Good diary.

Do you think your wife is making progress like you are?


----------



## Ynot

LongWalk said:


> Good diary.
> 
> Do you think your wife is making progress like you are?


I don't really know. From our interactions things are definitely much less stressful. We text nearly everyday about something and it usually involves some LOLs, ,  or . from her. I do know that she has kept me at arms length in regards to time spent together. I am not upset by this as I really think I would do the same thing if the opposite were true. I am really trying to be patient and not push too hard. Our dissolution isn't even final for another three and a half weeks. I am very cautiously hopeful that it may still be avoided. On the other hand, if she still wants to go through with it, I would understand that as well. Early on she said things wouldn't/couldn't be changed in a week or a month. So I am willing to be patient. 
In the past I have done and had it done to me - the manipulation involved with "I have changed!". But then two weeks later you or they are slipping right back into the same old same old. As you have seen on some of my other posts. I really have made significant, life altering changes to my life. I am still accepting some of them. I am still very lonely. But sometimes when I stop to think about how my life has changed so much for the better I almost get giddy! But again I can see why she would be keeping me at an arm's length for now. All I can do is keep moving forward and improving myself.


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## Chuck71

Your daily posts are very healthy. Like everyone here.....I wish for you to

find / seek for whatever you desire. Your self reflection appears to be

quite unbiased. However it ends up, you will be fine....


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Your daily posts are very healthy. Like everyone here.....I wish for you to
> 
> find / seek for whatever you desire. Your self reflection appears to be
> 
> quite unbiased. However it ends up, you will be fine....


Thank you, I think so too. There are many variables in life, but the only one I can control is me


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## Ynot

Yesterday was another step forward. Another good productive day at work. Met my goal again. Finished the week averaging over my goal. I decided to take some action in regards to my seating arrangement. I can't just move from my location with my back to everyone, but I can get up and move around more myself instead of just staying in my cube. So yesterday I visited my trainer's cube instead of having him come to mine. While I was at it I interacted with others along the way. A good move all the way around.
I stopped at my manager's cube on the way out to remind her that I wouldn't be there. Earlier in the week she had sent me an email telling me what a great job I was doing. I told her I had done better this week. She responded by telling me great job. She said she has only heard good things about me from the others on the team and that they all really enjoyed working with me.
After work I came home to do some reading. I actually ended up dozing off for a few minutes instead. But I was up an at it for my spinning class. I am really enjoying it. I love sweating and boy did I ever sweat. This weeks puddle far exceeded last weeks. When class was over I was high!
I managed to find an exterminator to meet me at the house his afternoon. So hopefully the issues with the fleas will be solved. I also got some stuff to put down in the yard to take care of the outside problems.
Once again some light hearted texting with H. She was trilled that the flea problem might finally be resolved. She had taken stuff back to her place and ended up having to bomb there as well. I am taking it slow with her.
Finally decided that racquetball just might not be in my future here. I can't seem to find any courts, which is totally amazing given that anything else you could possibly desire is within minutes. So I decided to move onto plan B - martial arts. I am going to start looking for some place to take some classes next week.
As I mentioned before I am getting ready to head back to the house to gather some more belongings. I still have a few pieces of furniture and some clothes in the house. As well as my work files (I have to keep for five years - ugh!). Then there is still some stuff in the garage that I want. Some hand tools, a large metal cabinet and tool chest. I don't know how much I will be able to bring back this weekend. So I may have one more trip to make.
The day beckons, I need to see where it leads.


----------



## lonelyhusband321

Ynot said:


> Yesterday was another step forward. Another good productive day at work. Met my goal again. Finished the week averaging over my goal. I decided to take some action in regards to my seating arrangement. I can't just move from my location with my back to everyone, but I can get up and move around more myself instead of just staying in my cube. So yesterday I visited my trainer's cube instead of having him come to mine. While I was at it I interacted with others along the way. A good move all the way around.
> I stopped at my manager's cube on the way out to remind her that I wouldn't be there. Earlier in the week she had sent me an email telling me what a great job I was doing. I told her I had done better this week. She responded by telling me great job. She said she has only heard good things about me from the others on the team and that they all really enjoyed working with me.
> After work I came home to do some reading. I actually ended up dozing off for a few minutes instead. But I was up an at it for my spinning class. I am really enjoying it. I love sweating and boy did I ever sweat. This weeks puddle far exceeded last weeks. When class was over I was high!
> I managed to find an exterminator to meet me at the house his afternoon. So hopefully the issues with the fleas will be solved. I also got some stuff to put down in the yard to take care of the outside problems.
> Once again some light hearted texting with H. She was trilled that the flea problem might finally be resolved. She had taken stuff back to her place and ended up having to bomb there as well. I am taking it slow with her.
> Finally decided that racquetball just might not be in my future here. I can't seem to find any courts, which is totally amazing given that anything else you could possibly desire is within minutes. So I decided to move onto plan B - martial arts. I am going to start looking for some place to take some classes next week.
> As I mentioned before I am getting ready to head back to the house to gather some more belongings. I still have a few pieces of furniture and some clothes in the house. As well as my work files (I have to keep for five years - ugh!). Then there is still some stuff in the garage that I want. Some hand tools, a large metal cabinet and tool chest. I don't know how much I will be able to bring back this weekend. So I may have one more trip to make.
> The day beckons, I need to see where it leads.


Martial arts is a VERY good thing, Ynot. Look for a really good dojo, though. One that does more than teach "fighting skills". For what its' worth, shotokan is a very traditional style that does so much more. Just get someone to recite the dojo creed and it will become apparent.

Good luck, and hang in there!!


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## Ynot

A VERY long weekend. I had to return to our house to continue the clean out. I left Friday morning and drove the 2.5 hours back to Podunkville. First I had to close out a PO Box and have my mail forwarded - easy enough. Even got a small refund! Then I went to the house.
It still sucks all the positive energy straight out of me just walking in that door. Even with most of the major things gone, there are still reminders and memories in every room. But I rolled up my sleeves and got to work. We had a dumpster delivered so first thing I did was start hauling out the trash. I was amazed at how much we had. Then I loaded up my car for the first of three trips to the local Hospice Browse and Buy and donate out unneeded/unwanted goods. 
We (she) had a flea problem so we had called an exterminator. He ended up being early so I had to leave while the house was treated. I had a Doctor's appointment anyways. 
The Dr's appointment went smoothly enough. All of my vitals had improved since my last visit a few weeks ago. Pulse was down, blood pressure was way down and I had lost another 4 pounds. Otherwise no problem.
Then I did something that I may regret. (I will post about it tomorrow)
After that I went to my sister's house for a birthday party. I had a pleasant visit and it was nice to see some familiar faces. I took each of my nephews a large bag of M&Ms and a card for my sister. I got to see my BIL who I had enjoyed playing racquetball with the last couple of years. Turns out my sister is teaching gymnastics at the Y and he now has a family membership. So he was really bummed that I wasn't around to play.
Then came Saturday - but I have to get ready for work and I know today is going to be very rough for me (it is going to take a few posts to get it all out)


----------



## lonelyhusband321

Ynot said:


> A VERY long weekend. I had to return to our house to continue the clean out. I left Friday morning and drove the 2.5 hours back to Podunkville. First I had to close out a PO Box and have my mail forwarded - easy enough. Even got a small refund! Then I went to the house.
> It still sucks all the positive energy straight out of me just walking in that door. Even with most of the major things gone, there are still reminders and memories in every room. But I rolled up my sleeves and got to work. We had a dumpster delivered so first thing I did was start hauling out the trash. I was amazed at how much we had. Then I loaded up my car for the first of three trips to the local Hospice Browse and Buy and donate out unneeded/unwanted goods.
> We (she) had a flea problem so we had called an exterminator. He ended up being early so I had to leave while the house was treated. I had a Doctor's appointment anyways.
> The Dr's appointment went smoothly enough. All of my vitals had improved since my last visit a few weeks ago. Pulse was down, blood pressure was way down and I had lost another 4 pounds. Otherwise no problem.
> Then I did something that I may regret. (I will post about it tomorrow)
> After that I went to my sister's house for a birthday party. I had a pleasant visit and it was nice to see some familiar faces. I took each of my nephews a large bag of M&Ms and a card for my sister. I got to see my BIL who I had enjoyed playing racquetball with the last couple of years. Turns out my sister is teaching gymnastics at the Y and he now has a family membership. So he was really bummed that I wasn't around to play.
> Then came Saturday - but I have to get ready for work and I know today is going to be very rough for me *(it is going to take a few posts to get it all out)[/*QUOTE]
> 
> However many posts it takes!!


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## Ynot

Saturday - Thinking I was being helpful and cooperative, I spent the day helping H sort and separate her stuff for loading on the truck she had rented. She needed have it back before 9PM and had to drop stuff at a storage unit and then her new apartment. Around 5 I started putting the stuff for her apartment in the front of the truck. She started stressing that she wouldn't have room for the storage unit stuff at the back of the truck. She asked if there was anything I could keep in her garage. I reluctantly agreed to keep some of A's stuff in my garage. But I told her - if I did that I would still need to come back again - another 5 hours of driving. Plus we still had not begun to sort the freezer or any of the thousands of photos and pictures upstairs. She said she could come back next Saturday. Then she left.
Later she called to say she thought she could get some more in her storage unit, so I might not need to take quite so much.
On Sunday I called her to ask her about another pile of totes to take to Hospice that had blended into A's stack of totes. She said not to worry about them, she would get them when she came back this week. Then she said she had forgotten, but she had other plans for next Saturday, so she wasn't going to be able to make it. I decided to exercise one of my new habits about not keeping my displeasure to myself. So I told her that was unacceptable - I had spent all day doing for her, and once again, as she had done so many times while we were married - I had been there for her, but once she got hers, she was too busy to help me. She said she would see what she could do. Later she said she could be there until 2 but had to leave by then.
I loaded my stuff by myself and headed back to my apartment 2.5 hours away. I didn't get on the road until about 4PM. I finally had everything off loaded by about 9PM on Sunday and I still have stuff to unpack and out away.
My next post will hopefully encompass the stupid thing I did and Monday because they go together.


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## Keedy

Wow...that's awesome and congratulations on your new start. I myself am going through a divorce and even though my soon to be ex try so hard to make things difficult. ..I just ignore it. Life is just to short to hold onto grudges. Live life to the fullest is what I say.


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## Ynot

Yesterday was the 24th anniversary of our marriage. I had been reading Divorce Busters and was feeling rather hopeful. Almost every example of dysfunctional communication could have been a day from the last few years of my marriage. I even started substituting the names in the book with H and Y or Y and H. The book was full of great advice that neither she nor I had ever considered instead we just kept feeding the self perpetuating series of bad habits that continued to form. 
So feeling somewhat hopeful and much better about myself I decided to try to see if maybe, just maybe I could achieve a break through.
We had been working together all those years ago. We had flirted and joked for several months. At one point she told me she loved peach roses. So one day I went and bought her a single peach rose. When I got back to the office she had a dozen long stem red roses on her desk. All the women were going ga-ga over them. Needless to say I felt like a shmuck and it must have shown. She asked why I was so quiet and I told her I had bought her a peach rose, but how would that compete with the dozen on her desk (which were from another suitor). She thought I was joking. Later when I went to the bank I held the rose up for her to see. Wen I got back from the bank, she invited me over. We had sloppy joes and asparagus for dinner and then stayed up all night talking and drinking coffee with Bailey's Irish Cream. We decided to go out the next day and that started it all.
Fast forward 25 1/2 years I went to a flower shop and ordered her a single peach rose to be delivered to her office. I bought her a copy of Divorce Busters and had it wrapped. The I wrote her a letter:
A Single peach rose opened the door to your heart. I now hope that a single peach rose will allow me to keep my foot in that door. I am not looking for commitment, only the opportunity. I have made many positive changes to my life that I intend to make permanent. I realize that we are far apart in our opinions of the state of our relationship, but I want you to know that I will take as much time as needed to make it right. I have read tis book which has been a great help in my understanding so many of our issues. I would very much appreciate it if you would please read it. With all my love, Y.

She responded by saying thank you. The flower was really pretty. She read my letter and had the book. She didn't know what to say. She said she would look the book over but she probably wouldn't read it., because she just falls asleep when she reads. She was glad I was working on me, but she had decided that she was the source of my unhappiness and we just weren't good for each other. So basically thanks but no thanks. Then she went on to tell me how the fact that I got upset because she couldn't be there on Saturday was just more proof of what she decided. 
I really did not know how to respond. Later she texted me about going to the house. I hadn't realized that she had told me she wasn't coming on Saturday until I reread her email. So I explained once again, that me expressing my displeasure was part of the new me. And I was also displeased that she wouldn't even make an effort to read something. She wants us to be friends but she wants it all to be on her terms, I didn't know if I could be comfortable of friendly with someone who could just so casually walk away from 25 years of life together and couldn't even be bothered to read a 200 page book, because she was just so busy. Needless to say, tempers flared.
I was stupid to even make the effort but I feel I owe it to myself and to my family to make the effort to try to save my marriage. Today I sent her an apology ofr letting my emotions get the better of me last night. I also explained that what she perceived as bitterness and anger was actually hurt. I was hurt bu\y her casual dismissal of my effort, by her selfishness and insensitivity that she had detonated a nuclear bomb under our family and now she just wanted everybody to embrace the change as if we were eating lunch at noon instead of 11:30. She had said she felt like she was being "guilted" into reading the book. I explained that her guilt was on her because I had taken her on her word that we were forever connected by our children and she wanted us to be friends. So far, she has made no effort. No discussion is allowed about the past, any discussion of her actions is dismissed as bitterness. Basically I told her if she was willing to start meeting me in the middle and compromising there would be NO relationship of any sort at all. Respond her don't the choice is now hers to make. 
I know I back slid badly. It feels as though I have just ripped the scab off the would and I am bleeding out again.


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## LongWalk

Better not to negotiated like this.

You gave her the book. It's up to her to read it.

Anger is not going to attract her. It's a sign that you are flailing about trying to gain control.

If she wants to be friends, okay be friends, just not so close that it hurts you. Keep your distance. Be cheerful. The odds of getting the WAW back are poor. Stay cool.

She knows you well. If you are moving and on and looking like you have your shyte together, that may attract her back again.


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## Ynot

LongWalk said:


> Better not to negotiated like this.
> 
> You gave her the book. It's up to her to read it.
> 
> Anger is not going to attract her. It's a sign that you are flailing about trying to gain control.
> 
> If she wants to be friends, okay be friends, just not so close that it hurts you. Keep your distance. Be cheerful. The odds of getting the WAW back are poor. Stay cool.
> 
> She knows you well. If you are moving and on and looking like you have your shyte together, that may attract her back again.


I hear you brother. Loud and clear. The thing is I wasn't really angry. It just hurts like hell to realize just how casually she can toss half of our lives away so easily. I just got back from a good work out. I spent a lot of anxious energy!


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## Ynot

Longwalk, thank you for your response. I thought about it last night. And I do agree with you.
I sent her an email yesterday, apologizing for allowing our conversation to get out of hand. I went on the express my hurt at her casualness towards the whole thing. If she wants to chalk it up to bitterness still that is her problem. The ball is now in her court. 
Today is the next first day of the rest of my life. I can stand tall knowing that I made the effort to save my marriage. I can walk away unvanquished. I did not give up. But even more importantly I know that it is still up to me to make my life better.
I have made many positive changes and will continue to make more. The one big drag has been my on-going attempt to get her back. I am done with that. I realize it is counter productive.
From this point forward, I am going to be the one "not making any promises" that we "can be comfortable with each other". I don't know that I can be comfortable with someone who has deserted me and more importantly my family. I am also not making any promises that I can "embrace the change". I refuse to assist her in trying to maintain her fantasy that our family has not been shattered. I will be friendly, but I do not know if I can be friends with her. The only connection that remains is thru our children. They are both adults. She has been moving away from them as well me. I have been moving closer to them and I will continue to do that. I truly hope she finds what she is looking for. Unfortunately I think she is going to get what she deserves - a lonely life, isolated from her family, separated from the ones who truly loved and cared about her, surrounded by her "girlies" who are all equally damaged and willing to desert her whenever the next opportunity comes along.
Well work beckons and a new day arrives.


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## Chuck71

She will do a number of things to just get a rise out of you...

Be still and view things at 50k feet, observe 

Acting as if you do not care gives her the sense you are moving on

General speaking, the dumper has this wild theory of how spectacular 

life will be as a single person. Give that person EXACTLY what they want.

It very rarely ever turns out as they had planned.

When people show you who they are, believe them.


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> She will do a number of things to just get a rise out of you...
> 
> Be still and view things at 50k feet, observe
> 
> Acting as if you do not care gives her the sense you are moving on
> 
> General speaking, the dumper has this wild theory of how spectacular
> 
> life will be as a single person. Give that person EXACTLY what they want.
> 
> It very rarely ever turns out as they had planned.
> 
> When people show you who they are, believe them.


Amen, brother!


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## Ynot

The climb back continues. In fact I don't know that it never stopped. I had done something that I felt needed to be done - I had made the effort to save my marriage and my family. Something which had I not done now I would probably have regretted later. Speaking to my son, he said he recognized some anger, which is actually a good thing, as it is the next stage of the grief process, which gets me one step closer to healing.
Work was once again therapeutic. I hit my numbers and closed the gap towards making it happen again for the week. I paid some bills and set them up for auto pay. I did some laundry - IOW I lived my life
Last evening I took my first yoga class - wow! What a great work out. I left feeling refreshed and slept well last nite. At the end of the class, the teacher recited a mantra, which I found to be very calming. After class I asked her about it. She said it was the ABC's of Life. It is rather long, but I would encourage anyone reading this to google it.
Anyways a new day begins, onward and upward!


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## Chuck71

In your case, she most likely will come to a point where she will dig 

herself a hole and look to you to help her...save her....rescue her.

As men...we love to be the rescuer, just like in fairy tales

as Mr. Fixer she will feel she has a green light to do it again

and the Fixer will wipe all the carnage away time after time

I was guilty of this in my M....when I stopped, she was angry

You can't fix them...that is their task...sometimes they learn

other times.....(sigh)


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> In your case, she most likely will come to a point where she will dig
> 
> herself a hole and look to you to help her...save her....rescue her.
> 
> As men...we love to be the rescuer, just like in fairy tales
> 
> as Mr. Fixer she will feel she has a green light to do it again
> 
> and the Fixer will wipe all the carnage away time after time
> 
> I was guilty of this in my M....when I stopped, she was angry
> 
> You can't fix them...that is their task...sometimes they learn
> 
> other times.....(sigh)



Chuck you are a wise man. Your first observation is again dead on target. She claims her decision to leave is based on "living in a cave" that I had made our life. You would think she would feel free of that since I am no longer with her. Yet all I hear from her is how she is stressed to the max, she can't hardly breath, she is just dealing with too much, she has too many things to think about, etc etc. I would have to agree whatever "cave" she thought she was escaping from is just a small crevice compared to the one she has created for herself.
I have tried. But now I have told her, that I am the one that is not making any promises to her. She want us to be friends - but I don't know that I can be friends with someone who just gave up. She wants us to be comfortable - but I don't know if I can be comfortable with someone who deserted my family. She wants us to embrace the change - but I told her that may never happen, at least not to her satisfaction. As you said sometime people can fix themselves, and other times not. For now, fixing me is all that matters to me.


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## Ynot

Yesterday was rather uneventful. Just another day of life. One positive is that I have learned once again, that I can live without her. I got up, took the dog for a walk, got ready for work. went to work, worked, came home let the dog out, fed the dog again, went and worked out, took the dog out again, came home, read, watched tv and went to bed - all by myself. I didn't need her help for anything. I know it sounds stupid, but the day made me realize that life goes on and so can I.
At work I was able to get back on target for the week. Today I just need to have an average day. Considering the tumult of earlier this week, that is a victory in my book. 
I am really starting to feel the yoga class, which is another great thing. My weight has continued to come off and I am starting to lean out and she some definition again. My work out yesterday was more cardio and upper body. Next step is to work on regaining my six pack abs again. I want to be the youngest looking 53 year old you will ever see. 
Work starts in an hour, I need to get ready. The adventure continues.


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> Chuck you are a wise man. Your first observation is again dead on target. She claims her decision to leave is based on "living in a cave" that I had made our life. You would think she would feel free of that since I am no longer with her. Yet all I hear from her is how she is stressed to the max, she can't hardly breath, she is just dealing with too much, she has too many things to think about, etc etc. I would have to agree whatever "cave" she thought she was escaping from is just a small crevice compared to the one she has created for herself.
> I have tried. But now I have told her, that I am the one that is not making any promises to her. She want us to be friends - but I don't know that I can be friends with someone who just gave up. She wants us to be comfortable - but I don't know if I can be comfortable with someone who deserted my family. She wants us to embrace the change - but I told her that may never happen, at least not to her satisfaction. As you said sometime people can fix themselves, and other times not. For now, fixing me is all that matters to me.


My DDay was about two years ago. I was 40...she was 47. She wanted

to remain married but 'do our own thing.' I refused and asked her to work

on the M and seek MC. She refused. I dropped the D. I went down the 

rabbit hole and for about a month...I was a mess. As I recovered, I came out

setting my boundaries. Near the end of the 60 day wait for D final, she began

reaching out. I was not going to fix her, that was on her. After profiling her,

she was put into a position to chose A-crack open the door or B-close the final

door. Her actions chose B. It was all over a relatively small household bill.

I had written my one non-negotiable on a tablet laying on the coffee table.

It was ripped out by me...after her choice of B. Had I stayed and tried to fix her,

it would have been temporary. I never would have met the girl I dated from early

last year to very recently.


----------



## Ynot

Yesterday was my last trip back to the house. I needed to retrieve the files I am mandated by law to retain for five years. There were a few other things as well. I left early yesterday and arrive in time to have breakfast with a friend. 
I towed my empty utility trailer back with me. It took up too much space in my garage here. I took it to my friends barn. My neighbor, who bought the house had told me I could leave it in the shed if I wanted for as long as I needed too. He has been more than helpful and told me early on that I could keep as much as I wanted to in the shed (really a garage). Neither of us ever mentioned keeping anything in the shed to H, as per her MO that would have been her solution - just put everything in the garage and we can worry about it later. Plus she wouldn't have to get (and pay for herself) a storage unit for all the junk she decided she just had to hold onto.
For example, 20 years ago, her aunt had an old library table that had been her dad's. The table had been nice, but was beat up and broken. She was throwing it away. My wife just had to have it because it was her grandfather's! So we drove to Michigan and dragged it back.. H was always going to refinish it, I even repaired it so the legs stayed attached and the drawer could open. Instead it sat under another table in our basement for the past 20 years. It had never seen the light of day for the past 20 years. But she had to take it! It meant so much to her! Of course, I dug it out for her, and I took it apart for her and I carried it up to her truck etc etc. The thing was mildewed, the legs had cracked from the moisture in the basement, in short it was just a pile of moldy old wood. BUT - SHE HAD TO HAVE IT! It meant so much to her.
In the meantime, things that I had made for her with own my two hands were left behind, because she didn't know what she wanted to do with them. When we first married, we had bought a new bedroom set. So for Christmas that year I made her a jewelry box which was a scale model of the bedroom vanity I even lined the drawers with purple satin, because that was her favorite color. Apparently it meant nothing to her. So I dumped the jewelry that was in it in a box and put it with her stuff and took the box with me. Originally I was going to give it to my daughter. But now I have decided t keep it for myself. I have the bedroom set and the box now sits atop the vanity. I have decided to use it a symbol to remind myself of why I should NOT allow her actions to get me down. I deserve better than someone so callous.
I went golfing with my friend and one of my brothers in the afternoon and stopped to get the things loaded before heading out. I did a once thru on the house and found a few other things. I did the same in the garage. I noticed that H had left a table on the porch that she had wanted and in the garage there was set of children's wicker furniture (another legacy of junk from 20 years ago that she just had to have) The table is quite heavy but I left it on the front porch. She will need to find someone to help her carry it back to her car. The furniture is tucked up into the rafters of the garage and I am sure covered in mouse droppings and probably all chewed up as well. I left it where it was. I guess she will have to figure out how to get it down herself. I texted her that she had left them. She texted me back that she had forgotten but would make arrangements to get them. I hope she is not too surprised to find them where I found them. :rofl:
I did break down and cry over the insanity of it all before I left. I never have to go back to the house ever again. I have one last trip to make to Podunkville next month for our dissolution hearing and then I plan to NEVER go back to that place again. 
I have not been able to finish putting my new place together because of the weekly trips and on-going drama. Today my goal is to make a huge dent on making this place MINE and leaving the past behind.
Another observation I have made over the past few weeks, is how, despite my efforts, I never really felt like it was MY house. I didn't need pictures of family to remind me of them. I didn't need all the empty "sometimes the best things in life aren't things" stencils to remind what was important in life. But our house was polluted with them, every wall had a different saying, and photos. A few might not have been so bad, but SHE continually added to them. We had my 32 year old sister's senior picture on display! Our 35 year old neighbor's 8th grade picture! WTH! But I guess one of us needed to remind themselves.
Irony has become one of the most frequent observations I have had over the past few weeks. As I left the house and locked the door for the last time, I looked through the window in the door. There on the wall was "Laugh as long as you breath, Love as long as you live" My guess is that the irony would be lost on the person who put that there.


----------



## Ynot

Yesterday was spent unpacking the remains from the house. I got rather emotional at times, thinking about whatever it was I unpacking. Remembering when we got it and why. The day we bought it or the day it was given and received. It truly does make me sad to think of everything she has thrown away.
OTOH, I got my tasks accomplished. I sorted and organized my garage. So now for the first time in many years, I will know where everything is.
I did some cleaning and household chores that needed done. I decided I wanted a memory foam mattress topper. We previously had one, but Mr Nice Guy let her take it since she had had to buy a new mattress and it was the cheapest one she could find and uncomfortable. Whatever, that pad was fie or six years old and getting pretty worn out anyways. So I went and treated myself to a new one. I slept like a champ last night!
I now have two weeks until DDay. I intend to follow a lot of the good advice I have received around here. First off I am going to spend the next two weeks in the gym getting into the best shape that I can. Then I am going to buy a new outfit, that was not chosen by her to wear to the hearing. Something fashionable and form fitting. Our hearing isn't until 1:30 so I am also going to stop and get my haircut. When I show up at that hearing, I am not going to be the defeated person I was when we filed. I am going to be confident and strong. She WILL see what she losing out on - boo hoo!
I had another interesting thing happen to me on Saturday. After breakfast with my buddy, we were just sitting there enjoying a cup of coffee. It was about 10:30 and we were the only ones left in that part of the restaurant. The door opened and a rather attractive woman walked in. She walked past us and said good morning and continued into the next room. A while later she walked past us on the way to the rest room. When she was finished she had to walk past our table. She was walking a little differently, almost sauntering. She stopped at our table and tugged on the sleeve of my jacket and said "that looks really good on you". I said thank you and she walked away. It has been so long, I don't know if she was hitting on me or if I was just getting a compliment. Either way stuff like that never happened before.


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## Chuck71

If you read my latest thread, you will learn I had several issues with my pop.

It improved some before he died. I was 24. He was extremely intelligent.

When my mom's mom died in '88...one of mom's sisters was taking her

daughter over to "show her what she was going to get." Without saying one 

word to her other three sisters. Pop told me (I was a teen), "it's not that they want

these things, they just don't want anyone else to have them." I have 

seen those words ring true so many times in the 25 years since he said it.

You will reach numerous finalities. She will too but that is "in the future."

People realize things on their own time. My X recognized it near the end but it was too late.

She made an attempt in person near the one year mark of the D final.

She made an "on paper" attempt near what would have been our 15th

wedding ann. But your focus is yourself, your closure, and your moving forward.


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## Ynot

The ascent continues - yesterday I set a new personal best at work. I have decided that work is therapeutic and I am making the best of it. I used to feel as if I had adult onset ADD since I was never able to concentrate. Now that my stresses are gone it is so much easier.
I went to the gym after work. 20 minutes of increasingly more strenuous cardio, followed by a half hour upper body routine and then my first power yoga class. Just like the other yoga class I came out drenched, stretched and spent.
Afterwards I went shopping for my new outfit. I window shopped at lunch earlier and went to a few other stores last night. I haven't seen anything that I really like yet. So I'll keep looking. Basically it is an informal hearing so I don't need a suit, but I would like to get something I could wear on a first date when that time comes.
I did buy a scale. I have lost 30 pounds since this all began. At first most of it was just due to not eating. Now it is due to my efforts I. would like to lose another 7 pounds or so. I want to get really lean. mean and toned. I am thinking the routine I am pursuing will allow that to happen.
I want to get into work early today. There is a meeting I want to go to after work and I want to get home in time to work out first.


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## Ynot

Things leveled off considerably yesterday. An uneventful day at work. It was productive enough. I was within a half point of the previous days record. It was just uneventful.
After work I attended a meeting of fellow professionals. A lawyer presented some plans for renovation of some part of town. So there wasn't really any opportunity to network or meet people. I wasn't really feeling it anyways.
I didn't have time to work out it was almost 8:30 when I got home. 
Today is the next first day of the rest of my life I need to make it better.


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## Ynot

Another day of relative normalcy yesterday. Pushed myself a little harder at work and set another high production mark for myself. By the end of the day today, I should just blow past my weekly goal with a day to spare.
After work, I handled some correspondence that I had been putting off and then hit the gym for a blast of cardio, followed by some weight training and finally another session of yoga. I feel great this morning. 
While I was at the gym I talked to a woman I had seen there before. That was something I would not have done in the past. We just talked about fitness and routines, nothing persona. But it was nice to talk to someone with a common interest.
Yesterday I found myself getting upset that I had not spoken to H for almost a week, aside from texting her about the things she had left and having her say thanks. Yesterday afternoon she emailed me to touch base. Nothing important just a quick what's up. I told her it was nice to hear from her, that work was going great and I was looking forward to the yoga class after wards.
She replied that was great, she hadn't been so god about working out because she was so busy at work and she hoped the rest of my week went well. I said - same to you, talk to you later. And that was that. That was it. Still trying to figure out how I feel about it. time will tell.
Duty calls, time to rise to the challenge


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## Ynot

For some reason the roller coaster ride has intensified. I almost feel bi-polar in how I feel. One moment I feel complete acceptance of the situation, even to the point of fantasizing about what the future holds for me and then the next I feel totally crushed and feeling guilty about thinking of a future without her.
I've read where many who walk away, do so be believing the fantasy that life will be better when they divorce because they will then be able to find themselves. Typically it turns out that the fantasy never comes true and they end up worse than before. So I almost caution myself not to shoot for the moon while fantasizing about my future so that my expectations don't lead to disappointment for me.
Then the emotion of 25 years crashes over the whole thing again. I find myself missing her and wanting desperately to keep trying. For the past week I have not made any attempt at communicating with her. She sent me a short email and I responded with an equally short response. She said good and have a nice week, I replied - you too. 
I have not slept well the past few nights despite being physically and emotionally exhausted. I think the short email shorted out the process of recovery somewhat. I don't know but I wake up thinking about her. My heart is pounding and I am unable to get back to sleep. I try to think of other things but it seems I can't
So that is where I am at emotionally at the moment.
My Dday is set for the week after next. I am not looking forward to it at all. It is still something that I do not want. I know I just have to accept that it is inevitable and keep working on me.
I started a new book yesterday and work went well. I have met my weekly quota already. Today I have my first one on one with my manager. I am looking forward to some feedback.
I have had three fantastic work outs this week. Undecided about whether to hit it hard this evening or kick back and have a few beers. Since it is Halloween, and I am not really feeling up to a party, I am thinking a work out might be in order.
This week end is my first week end that I do not have to go somewhere. I will be home by myself for the entire week end. I still have some unpacking to do. So I will keep myself busy with that.


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## HeartbrokenW

Its been 20 months since my divorce. My XWAH remarried this past summer. I still dream about him. I dream how things would have been for our future, Grandkids coming over, etc. I think what you're feeling is pretty normal. I have a daughter at home yet, 14 yo, so I am not totally alone. The times she's at her dad's though..its an awlful reminder of how alone I will be when she goes off to college. And I hate it. All I can do is keep plodding along, one day at a time.

My son is bringing my grandkids over tomorrow. I'm looking forward to some fun in the leaves.


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## Chuck71

Completely normal. You remember what she used to be. Not what she is.

I still laugh at some of our old pictures and can smile at some of the crazy 

things X and I used to do. It's like taking everything that reminds you of her and

burying it. Sounds weird but...the person she was...died. When you

reach a point of acceptance and own the fact, it will never be... you can

dig it up and chose what memories you want to keep. You take the rest to

the dump. Consider yourself blessed...you had her at her best. If I started dating

your W...would you be jealous or "feel sorry for me." You courted her,

you married her, had children, and from what I have read...the children are grown

and leading productive lives. The only part you did not get to enjoy was the growing

old together. I have always stated, I should have lived in my great grandparents or

my grandparents day. If you read documented logs of the Titanic... numerous

women refused to board life boats without their husbands. They knew the 

ship was sinking and knew the water was ice cold. Old fashion ideals seem lame

today....as everyone wants to "ride the new fad"


----------



## Ynot

Chuck, once again I have to say you are right on target. I remember why I loved her to begin with and not how much she has changed since then. When I first met her I was impressed by how down to earth she was compared to all the women I had et to that point. How she was focused on doing the right thing, not worried about how things looked or what others thought. As time progressed a lot of that changed. Those changes were some of the things that were making me unhappy. She went from that to becoming more and more into the style over substance lifestyle that is the reality in most of society today. I have always been about doing the right thing. I would have died for her. I would also have killed for her. I feel I have done the right thing all along. I fed, clothed and housed my family. I think most of my pain comes from knowing now that none of that mattered to her in the end.


----------



## Ynot

I had my first one on one with my manager Friday. Still trying to figure out what to think of it. What I thought would be a relatively positive experience was more discomforting than anything. She told me that she notices that I ask a lot of questions and that the person mentoring me won't be available to me in the future. She said they hired me on the basis of my experience and she felt I needed to be more independent. I explained that the questions I was asking had little to do with the act of performing the job I was hired to do, but more to do with how to interface with the system of reporting those results and that while it may appear that I ask a lot of questions she should keep in mind two other things 1)I am completing twice as many reviews as the other new guy and 2) because of y cubicle location I am somewhat cut off from interaction with the rest of the team. I am making the effort to make face to face contact with my fellow team members in an effort to fit into the team rather than simply sending IMs. She responded by saying the numbers weren't as important as the internal "customer service" and proceeded to expand on a particular situation that involved me. We had had a report come in for review. I reviewed it and noted that the same person had already written two previous reports very recently. The most recent report had a significantly different conclusion than the prior reports. So I wrote up a summary and submitted the report to HER for a decline. She concurred with the decline, but now she was getting flack because the previous reports had been accepted and this one had been rejected. When I reminded her that all of this was in the summary that she used to decline the report, She said she was sorry and "took ownership" but that it was an example of how I could do a better job servicing internal relations. Later I got an email from an internal customer which I forwarded to her with a request as to how I should handle this and she responded that I didn't need to respond at all, it wasn't my problem (?) Okay, but next time don't give me feedback about something you are now telling me isn't important. I don't know I guess she might have just had to try to justify her position by coming up with something to be critical of? Who knows, I am not going to let it bother me too much, but it is definitely something I need to be aware of moving forward. 

Friday night I decided to kick back and have a few beers. I went across the street and ordered dinner and a draft. I sat down at the bar next to a guy I had talked to before and we talked about for a while about just things in general. I ended up having one beer too many. I woke up Saturday with a hang over and felt like crap. I slept in and finally got myself motivated and out of the house by early afternoon. I took my car and had the oil changed and tires rotated. So now I am ready for winter, I guess. 

Later I went to local museum and checked out an exhibit on the 1950's. They had a Lustron home which was one of the first prefabricated homes available to the public. The entire thing was made of metal panels which were delivered as a kit and installed on site. They had a few other exhibits I checked out as well.

I came home and took another nap. Then I went back out to the grocery store to pick up a few things I needed. I watched a movie and read a little and hit the sack before 11. I slept in this morning and I am feeling much better than yesterday. I am ready to go do an hour of cardio here in a few minutes.

I am still on a roller coaster and I am really getting sick of it. I know it is what I am going to have to face for at least the next several weeks. The book I have been reading is by Wayne Dyer. It is called "You'll See It When You Believe It". So far it is almost as if the book were written directly for me. He makes a lot of points that strike exceedingly close to home. I am lucky to have an old friend that I can discuss these issues with I called him this morning to make an appointment with him, to call and talk about the things I have read and the self discoveries they have led to. I read some Dyer's stuff years ago and found it really helpful. It has made me realize how much of my Self I had given up in order to pursue the dream of Us and how these sacrifices had become the root of MY issues. It has also made me realize just how far from that dream she had meandered from over the years. As I previously posted, I feel I have always been about doing the right thing. Early on so was she. I feel I sacrificed a lot of my Self to accommodate her straying from the path. At the time this was to my own detriment. As I move forward with my life, recognizing this will help me to become a better me. Whether she ever gets it or not is beyond my control. I can only follow the path forward myself.


----------



## whitehawk

Chuck71 said:


> Completely normal. You remember what she used to be. Not what she is.
> 
> I still laugh at some of our old pictures and can smile at some of the crazy
> 
> things X and I used to do. It's like taking everything that reminds you of her and
> 
> burying it. Sounds weird but...the person she was...died. When you
> 
> reach a point of acceptance and own the fact, it will never be... you can
> 
> dig it up and chose what memories you want to keep. You take the rest to
> 
> the dump. Consider yourself blessed...you had her at her best. If I started dating
> 
> your W...would you be jealous or "feel sorry for me." You courted her,
> 
> you married her, had children, and from what I have read...the children are grown
> 
> and leading productive lives. The only part you did not get to enjoy was the growing
> 
> old together. I have always stated, I should have lived in my great grandparents or
> 
> my grandparents day. If you read documented logs of the Titanic... numerous
> 
> women refused to board life boats without their husbands. They knew the
> 
> ship was sinking and knew the water was ice cold. Old fashion ideals seem lame
> 
> today....as everyone wants to "ride the new fad"



Spot on Chuck, My mum went through 10x with my dad than what ex did and , she had 11 kids to look after . 55yrs they were married and both passed in love once again.They'd been full circle 2 or 3 times and through stuff l could not even talk about but neither would give up on the other, ever .
My Grandmother pined my grand dad for 25 yrs after he died , until she herself passed away , She spent that whole 25yrs wanting to die to so that she could be with him again. She admitted it openly .

Some might call it a waste , l call it beautiful . 
They just don't make em like that any more it's me me me .


----------



## Ynot

Yesterday was another roller coaster. I slept in until 7AM and made myself breakfast. I read my a little while making it. I just can't express how much this book feels as though it were written specifically for me. Another very strange thing is how the things I am reading in the book are being reinforced by other things in my life. For instance I had Chinese for dinner Saturday night, my fortune cookie said "Failure is not defeat until stop trying". Yesterday morning I am reading a section of the book about visualization, one of the points being made was about how we look at failure, And then right there in the middle of the section is that very same statement! There have been others just like that. Too many to write off as coincidence. 
Despite the book, the ride continues. I had simply dumped a couple of drawers from my chest of drawers into a box when I moved. So yesterday I decided to sort the stuff out. The drawers had contained my personal stuff, things that I felt were important to me. Some of my dad's stuff, small trinkets my kids had given me, awards from work etc. Among the items were a hand full of cards given to me over the years by my wife. Seeing those opened the floodgate of emotions and tears. There were also some old photos of us. I stashed them in a box and shoved them in a closet. I guess I am just not ready to throw that part of my life away yet.
I also came across my wedding ring, which I had thrown in there when she decided we had to get a dissolution. I attached it to the dissolution papers and filed it away. Another flood gate thrown open.
I hope today the ride smooths out a little. I have to get ready for work and then tonight is a yoga class.


----------



## Chuck71

As men.... we do not wish to fail. This is imprinted very early in life.

As we get older.... when we reach a crossroads, even if we know the road

more familiar has many "potholes", we are more apt to travel it. 

The other road begins very dark and creepy. We can not see what is over

the hill. I have walked this road several times. The view over the hill...

only thing I can envision as near would be Hanging Gardens of Babylon

You did not fail.... she failed you. You wanted to fight for the relationship...

she decided to walk away. She is a quitter. How attractive is that?


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> As men.... we do not wish to fail. This is imprinted very early in life.
> 
> As we get older.... when we reach a crossroads, even if we know the road
> 
> more familiar has many "potholes", we are more apt to travel it.
> 
> The other road begins very dark and creepy. We can not see what is over
> 
> the hill. I have walked this road several times. The view over the hill...
> 
> only thing I can envision as near would be Hanging Gardens of Babylon
> 
> You did not fail.... she failed you. You wanted to fight for the relationship...
> 
> she decided to walk away. She is a quitter. How attractive is that?


Chuck I hear you - loud and clear! One of the things I told her when we had our last real conversation was that she is a quitter. She took great offense to me calling her that. Until I simply reminded her that that was her word not mine. She was the one who said she quit, she was the one who said she just gave up. So if she doesn't like being labeled as a quitter than perhaps she should think about exactly what she has done. I have no idea whether she will ever understand that or not.
She still harbors some fantasy that we can be friends and be comfortable with each other, that we will have a Christmas dinner together as a family this year. I get more PO'd the more I think about it. It is just more of her manipulation to avoid her having to deal with the consequences of her greed. And I do mean greed because her selfishness extends beyond rational self interest. She has destroyed MY family and as far as I am concerned that is all that is left - MY family, MY daughter and MY son. The ours ceased to exist when she made her decision and the woman I married would never have hurt her children the way she has. I have no interest in enabling her fantasy any longer. In fact it was my enabling that allowed the fantasy to form in the first place.


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## HeartbrokenW

Ynot said:


> I have no interest in enabling her fantasy any longer.


Good for you!


----------



## Ynot

Yesterday was another day at the office. In continued to surpass my goal and I have managed to remain focused while at work. I know I said it before but I used to feel as though I had adult onset ADD before. Now I just keep grinding through my queue. Almost anticipating what the next report entails.
I went and worked out last night. Some more strenuous cardio. I do the same track on the treadmill but I keep increasing the speed and incline. I am now up to 5 MPH which is almost a slow jog but I am walking it. I increase the incline for more resistance. One problem I have is finding a song on my MP3 player that doesn't remind me of her.
I did my weight training but cut it short for Yoga. Then the instructor cancelled. But those of that already had shown up decided to give it a go ourselves. One girl volunteered to lead us through a short routine and from there we all just did our own thing. It lasted about 45 minutes. When it was over I talked to the girl who had lead the class. She was a young girl from Mexico. We talked for a while outside about where she is from and the area we now live. We talked about Yoga. It was nice to have the human interaction.
Something that I have noticed over the past few days is that I am becoming more comfortable being alone. Last night I didn't call anyone to talk to them about the things going on in my life. I just came home and was by myself. I guess that is some sort of breakthrough?
As I approach my Dday, I am still very anxious about it. I have come to realize that there were many things about her that had come to bother me. I felt she took me for granted. I felt she used me. I felt she deserted me once her "needs" were met. As Chuck said yesterday - none of that is attractive. Part of me feels this may be the best thing that could happen to me. Yet part of me still loves the woman I married. The woman that I know she really is. Maybe absence and separation will force her to realize what she has walked away from. I have no control over that. Yet I still feel as though I do not want my marriage to end. I still feel that we can work through the issues and move forward to a better stronger relationship than we had before. But it falls on her now. I have made the effort and she has made none. I haven't decided yet whether to ask her one more time before the hearing to reconsider what she is about to do or just allow it to happen. I do know at this point, that I truly can make her no promises. But the reality is that promises really mean nothing anyways. She made a promise to me to be with me til the end. And yet here she is ending it. I know I am hurt beyond words by the ways things are going. The wounds are still fresh and the healing will take a long time.


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## LongWalk

The kids are still "your" plural children with her. They will never be "hers" or "yours" alone, but that is just co-parenting.

One thing that will not be "yours" plural is Christmas. All that she can "ours" now are the kids and the divorce.


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## Ynot

LongWalk said:


> The kids are still "your" plural children with her. They will never be "hers" or "yours" alone, but that is just co-parenting.
> 
> One thing that will not be "yours" plural is Christmas. All that she can "ours" now are the kids and the divorce.


The kids are not kids anymore. They are both adults. So as far as I am concerned they are now MY kids and she deserves no more consideration in my relationship with them than she gave to me in our relationship with each other. When she chose to walk away from me, she chose to walk away from MY family as well. She can deal with the consequences, but her fantasy isn't going to become reality because of my efforts.


----------



## whitehawk

Ynot said:


> Chuck I hear you - loud and clear! One of the things I told her when we had our last real conversation was that she is a quitter. She took great offense to me calling her that. Until I simply reminded her that that was her word not mine. She was the one who said she quit, she was the one who said she just gave up. So if she doesn't like being labeled as a quitter than perhaps she should think about exactly what she has done. I have no idea whether she will ever understand that or not.
> She still harbors some fantasy that we can be friends and be comfortable with each other, that we will have a Christmas dinner together as a family this year. I get more PO'd the more I think about it. It is just more of her manipulation to avoid her having to deal with the consequences of her greed. And I do mean greed because her selfishness extends beyond rational self interest. She has destroyed MY family and as far as I am concerned that is all that is left - MY family, MY daughter and MY son. The ours ceased to exist when she made her decision and the woman I married would never have hurt her children the way she has. I have no interest in enabling her fantasy any longer. In fact it was my enabling that allowed the fantasy to form in the first place.



Her quitting was my biggest thing to, quitting on her family , me and our vows , her vows. To just quit , it isn't right . Why say vows , those words , why even marry and have a family , if your not going to fight and fight for all of it ?
Yes we both made mistakes , some big some not so big. But at the end of the day if two people can acknowledge those and move on , be willing , why does a marriage have to be destroyed and this done to your children ?
lt is quitting , l thought in then and l still do.


----------



## Chuck71

Is it just me or are these walking out spouses more common in the last quarter

of the year. My final break-up with 1st and 2nd love was in Dec / Jan. My DDay

with X was in Nov. My ex g/f was recent. You are not alone in regards to the 

other wanting to have Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner "like nothing ever

happened." My X never asked me but I knew she wanted me to spend 

Christmas Eve with her. She always missed her mom during this time.

I already decided to go to my mom's. When I was getting ready to leave,

she broke down and cried the Nile. I so wanted to stay...but I couldn't.

I had set my boundaries. It hurt.... but it hurt her a lot more. But it was a 

line in the sand. A few days later is when I wrote my one non-negotiable.

I stepped outside of myself, into the light (Tao, Abolition of Man CS Lewis)

and everything was so f'ing clear. That is when her reaching began.

That is when my growth began.


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## HeartbrokenW

Chuck71 said:


> Is it just me or are these walking out spouses more common in the last quarter of the year.


Mine ex walked away in mid-September. Divorce wasn't final until Feb of next year.


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## Ynot

Yesterday was my birthday. My first birthday alone in 25 years. It was tough, but I lived! Went to lunch with my daughter. Had dinner plans with my sister and BIL cancelled because he was sick. Oh well, did a spinning class instead. First day of class, I was the only who showed. Got a private spinning lesson and a great work out!
I am finding as all of the "firsts" pass, that I am still waking up the next morning. That many of the "firsts" are of my own imagination and in fact not going to kill me. 
I admit to fits of emotion yesterday, but in retrospect, I do realize I am alive today and that yesterday didn't kill me.


----------



## Ynot

Yesterday was perhaps my calmest day in months. I felt like I was on a straight, level section of track on the roller coaster. I believe the anger is starting to set in. The closer I get to my Dday, the more angry I become and yet the more I realize that this might be the best thing in the world - FOR ME!
My anger is directed at her and her alone. I am realizing the depths of the manipulations as she has attempted to foist the blame onto me I was unhappy even though she tried - everything! BULLSH*T! We can still be friends if I can just "embrace the change - BULLSH*T! "We are forever connected thru our children" BULLSH*T! It is all just bull sh*t to allow her to not have to face the facts that she has destroyed a marriage and a family. She has hurt me in ways that no words can describe, and then spouts empty platitudes to off load the blame onto me for the consequences of her actions. As time has passed I realize now that empty platitudes was about all she ever had to offer. The house she and I lived in was full of them - every wall was polluted with a stencil of one.
Anyways, I have to continue to focus the negative energy into something positive. So I spent two hours in the gym last night - cardio, strength training and yoga. I slept well last night and another day beckons.
I continue to be productive at work. I should hit my weekly quota by the end of the day. They want us to work Saturday and I may go in for a while as I have not completely finished up my home office yet. Working remotely is allowed so that might be the impetus I need to get that finished up.


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## Chuck71

You have to run the anger to....let out the poison. You will start to view her as 

simply... a female. Just as you would any female you pass on the streets.

Imagine the conflict if your kids were very young and this occurred. 

You will never pinpoint the reasons why, she did what she did. I never could mine

and my job is profiling people. I know where it originated from but that is it.

The first holidays without....... will suck. They did for me. But a year later

(last year) it was memorable with someone new. Year prior, I honestly thought

I would be miserable for the next few years. I was so wrong (saying I was for a

few months would be a stretch) but at that time, I felt I would.

Your children love you. Are they married? Any grandkids? I have seen

firsthand, high school friends who are now grandparents... have this light in their eyes

for their grandkids.... they never had for their own children.

Being a grandparent simply means you get a second change at parenting.

We all know the mistakes we make the first time around.


----------



## Hopelessus

I see alot of me in what you say. He left though. His reasons were pretty much the same. I need him too much, I don't appreciate him, I think its all about me and I am the cause of his unhappiness for years. This Tuesday he left. The only thing he took was some clothes,his Ipad and is toothbrush. He is staying at his parents for now. It is hard to move on completely especially since he says he needs space because he wants to start dating and meeting people online right away and he can't do that if he is living at home. So my life has done a 360 in 8 months. Oh and I have 2 kids..6 and 8..even more difficult. I am trying to be strong bc I feel I don't even have time to think about this. I work full time I am home by 3:00 after picking up kids, HW, cook, clean, extracurricular activities, etc. I want things to be the same ( of what I thought was a happy marriage). But I can't live with someone who doesn't want me.


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## Ynot

Chuck my kids are both adults. As far as I am concerned at this point I have MY relationship with MY kids, she can have hers. I will never do anything to put my kids in the middle, but I have told them both that must understand that I am not interested in including her in our relationships anymore. As far as I am concerned I owe her less consideration than I owe the clerk at the convenient store. At least the clerk at the convenience store never destroyed my family thru their own self righteous greed. 
Both of my kids recently got engaged, and it was such a fine lesson she has taught them - it is just okay to quit and walk away without even trying. A lesson that is in direct contradiction to EVERYTHING we had tried to teach them as they grew into adulthood. Of course in her fantasy land, if I could just "embrace the change", life would be grand and we would all celebrate the holidays together as one big happy family - at her place of course! 
As for the holidays. Thanksgiving I am meeting my sister and BIL half ways for a traditional turkey dinner on Thanksgiving. My son will be in town the following Sunday and he, his fiancée, my daughter and her fiancée will all celebrate the holiday together. Christmas I will be celebrating at another sister's house along with another sister and my older brother. New Years I am heading to Virginia for a weekend in DC. My son will be in town again over the week between Christmas and New Years. Depending on when my daughter is off work, we will be gathering together then. As for the ex, well I guess she'll just have to settle for whenever my kids can squeeze her in.


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## Ynot

Dang, I just reread my last post. Everyday I realize more and more the subtle manipulation that she tried to employ. I just needed to embrace the change. She thought we could still be friends, and if we aren't then it all my fault. She tried to make me happy, but since I wasn't she had no choice, etc etc, Every road of blame lead back directly to me. It as all my fault. What a crock! Maybe someday when she stops lying to herself she might actually realize what she has done. Like my brother said, convincing yourself is the easy part, convincing the rest of the world is another thing.


----------



## Chuck71

Some people love the Victim Chair. They spew out lies so much

they start believing it themselves. But always remember, friends do not 

divorce friends.


----------



## whitehawk

HeartbrokenW said:


> Mine ex walked away in mid-September. Divorce wasn't final until Feb of next year.



Mine was Oct.
There is something in it l'm sure bc l've noticed it to.

l thought the timing was the most selfish thing l've ever seen in my life.
l mean two mths later we have to deal with Christmas. My daughters just had her family destroyed , moved out with mum , finishing the school year AND , has to deal with Christmas like this , all in 2mths.
l could not fkg believe it.


----------



## whitehawk

Ynot said:


> Dang, I just reread my last post. Everyday I realize more and more the subtle manipulation that she tried to employ. I just needed to embrace the change. She thought we could still be friends, and if we aren't then it all my fault. She tried to make me happy, but since I wasn't she had no choice, etc etc, Every road of blame lead back directly to me. It as all my fault. What a crock! Maybe someday when she stops lying to herself she might actually realize what she has done. Like my brother said, convincing yourself is the easy part, convincing the rest of the world is another thing.



That's the thing too. ln my world , all the women has to even suggest is that he didn't treat her well and the carpet is rolled out for her . lt's just assumed actually , with everyone you have to deal with, legals , family, the lot . The guy gets nothing except the look . 

My ex back flipped at about 6mths and wrote me long text saying how she'd totally fkd everything and made and ruined our lives , d and me , hers .
l gave the wrong answer l think bc that was a real opening into poss' R l thought later . Which if things were right , l def' would've thought about . 
But she closed up again after that night and forged ahead with her plans .

l am one of the lucky just in that l do know why everything happened , caused 1/2 of it . But it wasn't too late , no way. This was the stupidest solution to just superficial crap basically , l still can not believe . Because it was all fixable , undoable , survivable .


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## HeartbrokenW

My ex never looked back .. he got re-married this past summer. Leads me to believe that there had to be something going on before he walked away. He'd known her for about 8 yrs.

I was the major breadwinner... He never brought home a steady paycheck. He definitely married down.. to someone who doesn't work at all, she depends on him for EVERYthing.


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## Ynot

Well, I definitely don't know where my head will be in six months. Heck I don't even know where it will be in six minutes at this point. I do have a feeling that the holidays are going to hit her like a ton of bricks. My gut tells me that even then her pride will never allow her to come back. So once again the choices I have is to put my life on hold or to move forward. The odds tell me my best bet is to move forward. IF she would ever decide to pull her head out of her as* long enough to clear the methane and realize what she has done, it will be up to me to decide whether or not I am willing to give her a chance. Currently, my thinking is not. She has hurt me in ways I can not describe. But at the same time she has forced me to recognize just how much of what she did and has become that had contributed to my unhappiness. She is the one who would need to demonstrate change at that point. Time will tell.
Yesterday, was kind of frustrating at work. I am being productive but I keep running into the brick wall that is my supervisor. She wasn't available so I asked my mentor for a suggestion. She found out and sent me an email that ALL questions are to be run through her. I don't know I might just be feeling overly sensitive. I just have to make it thru the day to today and when I get back to work on Wednesday I will be past my Dday.
Another good work out last night. Ran for 15 minutes and hard walk for the five minutes. Then a leg and ab routine. While I was there a woman came in and started working out. I immediately noticed her shoulders and the dimples that formed when she exercised. As I was leaving I stopped and told her " I hope you don't mind, I just wanted to let you know that I think your shoulders are sexy" and then I left.
I stopped at Target yesterday and got a pretty sweet deal. I have been looking for a monitor to replace the TV Mr Nice Guy had given the STBXW. So I saw they had a couple of 22 inch flat screens with PC hooks on sale. I grabbed them and headed for the register. When the cashier rang them up they came in $20 higher than the sign said. I told her that the sign said $30 off and they were on sale for $99. She called in the back and the clerk was too lazy to check so he told her just give me the $30 off and then I got a Red Card and got another 5% off. So I got two monitors for the price of one in the end.


----------



## Ynot

Doctor's appointment first thing yesterday morning. I think I am going to like him. He spent at least a half an hour with me. I have had a spot on my temple for several years. Everybody told me I should go have it checked out. My past thinking was that I couldn't care any less - if it was cancer I was willing to let nature run its course and purge itself of the wretch I felt I was. At least my wife would get my life insurance and be able to get survive. Well when she decided my services were no longer needed, I went to the doctor. The first one said it was nothing and that I could have it removed whenever I wanted. This doctor referred me to a dermatologist immediately. Another benefit of being in civilization is that the dermatologist office called me to set the appointment!
We also discussed a vasectomy, as I do not have any intentions of repeating the mistake my Dad made. He married a younger woman after my mother died. They had a child when he was in his fifties. It was sad for him, his wife and my sister. Needless to say a referral was made.
Finally we discussed my meds. He wants me off the xanex asap. He said it was addictive and described the roller coaster effect even before I had had time to tell him myself. He changed my meds. We discussed counseling and he made a referral.
Very productive week at work. I have to go into today to make up for my lost time yesterday. I should top 70 points for the week by noon today.
I also started working on my new buddy from the bar about opportunities at a rival bank. I told him my attitude is that I want no part of the chase. I am not going to allow my employer to use the carrot and stick technique. I am not going to chase promotion or raises by giving away my time while getting beat to work harder. I will give them the time I have sold them (2080 hours/year) and I will perform my duties. But that is all. If they don't want to accept that, I guess I will just find someone who will.
I got another email from my STBXW. "Happy Friday! How is your week going?" She even asked about the dog. I said my week was fine, the dog is fine. See you Monday (our hearing). She responded "See you Monday! Give Gabe hugs for me!" I so wanted to tell her that I was just certain the dog would appreciate hugs from the person who wanted him dead because he was an inconvenience to her. But I didn't. I didn't respond at all.
At the present, any contact with her is upsetting. She has hurt me in ways I could never describe. I was willing to deal with the pain if she was willing to make the effort to fix things. I realize that she has no intentions to fix things between us. All of her efforts are directed towards making herself feel better and allaying her own anxieties in order to keep her fantasy from crumbling. I have no interest in participating in that effort. As of Monday she will need to understand that she has eliminated the words "us", "we" and "ours" from any dialogue between she and I. When she is ready to deal with the reality of what she has done, perhaps she and I may talk, until then - adios!


----------



## Chuck71

her fantasies are like early empires in Europe...if you leave them alone they will

crumble from within. When she feels guilt she reaches out to you. Even if it 

is a simple email. Treat the hearing as a business deal. If you greet her

make it a "good morning maam" just like you would anyone else.

Also smile..... she expects someone miserable. Not someone with a mile wide

smile. She will notice


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## OGNW

Ynot, I feel deeply in the anguish, pain, betrayal and hurt you have endured. Due the extreme change in my wife’s behavior in the last six months, I have followed your saga since the start of your posts hoping I could gain some insight into my own possible new beginning.

I sincerely wish you the best and wanted to let you know there are people who care about you and your well being on this very difficult day.

Oh Gee Now What (OGNW)


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## Ynot

I made it thru Dday, just like any other day. I didn't die, I woke up the next morning and still needed a cup of coffee and something to eat. I have decided to continue to limit all contact to an absolute minimum. The longer the scab has time to heal the less damage it will cause when she tries to her next attempt at manipulating me back into her sphere of control.
After it was over I went and had lunch with two of my biggest supporters and talked for several hours. Afterwards I went and played racquetball with my BIL and then back to my sisters for dinner. When I got home I looked at some dating sites and signed up for one. I have already gotten some interest. 
I can't look back I can't change the past, but I can damn sure make sure my future is what I want.


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## Chuck71

Always regal to have friends to bounce things off of. When it comes to....

someone else's issues, I can see it clearly. Ahhh... but when it comes to my

own... never sure if I am clear or partly clouded. 

There's no doubt she has ripped at your soul but... don't give her the 

satisfaction of knowing it. When you stop appearing to give a damn,

they wonder "what you're up to"


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## Ynot

First day post Dday was kind of strange. I guess I had never realized the strain I had placed myself under. I didn't get home until late the night before but still got to bed around 11PM. I slept in until 8AM. I got up made some coffee , took the dog for a walk, had some breakfast and played around on the computer a little.. I decided to soak in the tub and read since I did not have to go to work. When I got out I just dried myself off and crawled back in bed and slept for three more hours. I slept so soundly that I did not even hear the phone rig three times even though it was right next to the bed.
Later on I got up and decided to take care of some paperwork. One of the bills was an electric bill from the house. I took a pic of it and texted to my ex. and told her I needed half from her. I also told her that there would be more final bills she would need to pay half of. She responded "LOL!, just let me know" I replied that yes it was laughable to assume that she should bear any responsibility to the debt she created when she made her decision. She the replied "did that make you feel better?" It wasn't meant to make me feel better it was meant to make you understand that there are consequences to your actions and I am not paying for them. She replied "you are just angry at everything" I responded that I am not angry at all. but that she must understand that she is still responsible for her past regardless of whatever fantasy she may be living in. I then told her that I would only be contacting her when it was required and to leave me alone.
Then I went and worked out for two hours. I came home made my dinner and went to bed.


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## Mr.Fisty

Your conversation with her lasted to long.



You should have taken the picture and send it asking for the half she owes.

When she baited you, you should not have replied.

She still affected you, and she knows it.


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## Ynot

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your conversation with her lasted to long.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have taken the picture and send it asking for the half she owes.
> 
> When she baited you, you should not have replied.
> 
> She still affected you, and she knows it.


I agree. When the Dish bill came today that is all I did. Took a pic and said "make sure you leave half of this bill there today as well."


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## Mr.Fisty

We all stumble sometimes, and we become a little bit wiser for it.


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## Chuck71

the best way to learn.....is from a mistake


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## Ynot

It has been a couple of days. I wish I had some interesting story to tell you. But it has been rather uneventful. I guess the reality of it is, is that it has just been uneventful. The finality of it all is still sinking in. I am still very angry, but I am starting to turn away from the past - slowly, too slowly it seems and looking towards MY future. I have continued to work out - perhaps too hard. No unusual pains, just tired.
I did get called into a conference at work the other day and had no idea what it was about. My boss just wanted to let me know that our employer offers counseling services for life changing events and she wanted to give me the information. It was a nice meeting. I continue to be productive at work. They guys are going to take me skiing as soon as the snow flies.


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## HeartbrokenW

If you don't mind me asking,what kind of employment are you in?


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> It has been a couple of days. I wish I had some interesting story to tell you. But it has been rather uneventful. I guess the reality of it is, is that it has just been uneventful. The finality of it all is still sinking in. I am still very angry, but I am starting to turn away from the past - slowly, too slowly it seems and looking towards MY future. I have continued to work out - perhaps too hard. No unusual pains, just tired.
> I did get called into a conference at work the other day and had no idea what it was about. My boss just wanted to let me know that our employer offers counseling services for life changing events and she wanted to give me the information. It was a nice meeting. I continue to be productive at work. They guys are going to take me skiing as soon as the snow flies.


when you grow, it is not learned until later

it's the application, not the learning

sometimes you are not aware of other's emotions

until the end

and even then, they are subject to change


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## Ynot

HeartbrokenW said:


> If you don't mind me asking,what kind of employment are you in?


I do review appraisals for a large regional bank.


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## Ynot

Well I guess it has been another few days since my last post. I don't know if that is good or bad?
Friday at work I had another go around with my supervisor. An issue came up. I sent her an email. She didn't respond. So I asked one of the other guys about it - total time spent with the other guy, 30 seconds. About a half hour later he comes over to my desk. He has the exact same issue come up, with the same vendor. What did you send them? I told him. He asked if I could copy and paste and he would send the same. Total time spent less than 30 seconds. So in less than a minute we solved two problems. About a minute later, I get an email "Just as a reminder, ALL questions are to come thru me!" I told her I had asked her she didn't respond, I wanted to move on spent 30 seconds picking the brans of a colleague and he actually had the same problem later so we killed two birds with one stone in less than a minute! She responded "This is not open to debate! ALL questions must come thru me" I told her she was isolating me from the rest of the team and stifling my development and that, YES it was open to debate and I would be more than happy to discuss it with her at her earliest convenience. I didn't hear anything more on Friday. Later she sent me a non-answer to my question "we follow all agency guidelines on this matter", the problem is that there are NO agency guidelines on that matter. I had already searched and there were none. If she brings it up today I am going to suggest we et her supervisor involved and/or HR because as far as I am concerned this is becoming harassment. I have never worked for some one who complained that an employee asked too many questions, especially not when they were producing 33% more than required on a regular basis.
Friday night,I met my new buddy over at the bar. I had my three beers along with dinner and headed home since I had to go in to work on Saturday. Saturday I got up went into the office for three hours and gave them 20% more that they had requested. After work I took a nap. worked out for two hours. and Then went and saw a band for awhile. 
Sunday I got up and worked out ad later that day met a nice attractive lady for a cup of coffee. We enjoyed an hour and half of conversation and made plans to hit one of the pizza places she had suggested next week end. She gave me her number. I told her I would call her on Wednesday and make the arrangements. I also have another coffee date set up for Tuesday morning with another lady. I m not looking for a relationship, I'm just seeing what is out there. If something happens it happens, if it doesn't. oh well.
This morning we got our first snow. It is so nice to know that my car is in the garage and all I have to do is get in and go. For the past twenty plus years, I would have gone on out, scraped the snow off, started my wife's car so it was warmed up for her and then gone and done the same thing for my own. I really hope she remembers that this morning when she is doing that herself. I wish her no ill will, but sincerely hopes that she gets to "enjoy" all of the consequences of her greedy decisions


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## Ynot

Wow, I guess it has been several more days since my last post. Not too much to report. I settling into my new life. I've had little to no contact with my ex and want to keep it that way. She needs copies of our tax returns and maybe someday when I am not so busy I might get around to sending them to her. In the meantime she mailed me a check for the money shoe owed on her half of some of the final bills from the house. She included a note "I am truly sorry!. No problem I balled it up and tossed it in the trash. 
In the meantime, I have a plans to go play pool on Friday night. There are couple of women in the group I might be interested in meeting. I have a date for Saturday and a coffee date on Sunday. Later on Sunday my daughter and her fiancée are coming over and I am making them dinner - pierogies with sautéed onions and keilbosi with sour cream. It was and remains our favorite meal together. So my weekend is full and I already have plans for the holidays. 
I have every intention to seize the opportunities I have een presented with by the situation that was imposed on me. I am working out for and hour or two every night. I am getting into the best shape of life. I am eating healthier, I am putting myself out there to meet new people and make new friends and experience things I never dreamt were possible.
I refuse to even get upset anymore, I am going to enjoy life and all that comes with it - good and bad, each can be a learning experience.


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## Ynot

It seems to get longer and longer between posts. I have been keeping myself busy. Still having some issues at work but I am working on it. Hopefully to be resolved by a better job away from the lobotomize/corporatized control freak who is trying to be my "coach". I really think she is afraid of me because I recognize she is an empty suit who is in over her head and won't allow her to blame me for her mistakes. I have some stories to tell about her that would take far longer than I have at the moment. Maybe this week end.
I have not had any contact with my ex - none - at all! But I have developed this little revenge fantasy. I know I would never do it, but it is pretty funny if you ask me. Every morning and evening I have to take the dog out to do his business. I then have little baggies I scoop it up with to toss in the trash. Every weekend I have to sweep up all the hair and dander he sheds all over the place. So - I would love to find a spring loaded box and deposit all of the doggie doo, hair and filth from the sweeper into it. Wrap it all pretty and have it shipped to her house for Christmas. Then when she opens it, the whole thing explodes and fills her house with all of the crap I have to deal with on a daily basis. Don't worry, it is just a fantasy. I have no intention of following up on.
Well off to the salt mine.


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## LongWalk

Can't remember why you took the dog. 

Your WAW said you might be friends and maybe even date. Amazing that she could say that as you sold your house.

The dog shyte reconciliation impulse will fade.


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## Ynot

LongWalk said:


> Can't remember why you took the dog.
> 
> Your WAW said you might be friends and maybe even date. Amazing that she could say that as you sold your house.
> 
> The dog shyte reconciliation impulse will fade.


I have to keep reminding myself that the only reason I took the dog was for my daughter. It is actually her dog. My ex wanted to have it put down since it would have been too much of an inconvenience for her.

Yes, the depth of the manipulation she used is one of the primary motivators of my anger at this point. She would use the "bait" of reconciliation and friendship to manipulate me into getting whatever she wanted. If I had to do it over I would definitely not have been the nice guy I was. It is why I want no contact at all from her at this point. She is still trying to play that game. I refuse to play anymore. She exploited my feelings for her benefit, but then looking back, that is what she had been doing for quite sometime.

Don't worry, the exploding dog poop fantasy is just that - a fantasy. I have no intentions of doing it.


----------



## Ynot

I actually went on a date tonite. I tried, but just never really got into it. Dinner and a movie. Never felt the connection and kept having memories of dates with the ex. Maybe it is too soon. Maybe she wasn't right. Maybe....who f*cking knows?


----------



## LongWalk

Good job. Don't sweat it.

Was the movie good?


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## LongWalk

You'll find a new and better woman if that is your desire.


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## Ynot

I had another back slide, the other night. After my date I was sitting here feeling sorry myself and getting more angry by the minute that my ex could do what she has done. Then the dog decided to crap and pee all over the carpet which put me over the top. I was surfing the web and eventually ended up on FB. I was looking at the pictures of our vacations and reading all the comments about what a beautiful family we had and how we were making memories etc. H would always respond with a smiley face or a blushing face or some other kind of face. I couldn't help myself and gave into temptation. "Yes, it was beautiful family, until H decided to quit and walk away" The next morning the post was hidden. but I was still feeling pissed. "Why don't you tell them how you destroyed that beautiful family by quitting and walking out?" Then I opened IM and started taunting her about being a coward and a quitter and demanding money for carpet cleaning, dog food and the blinds the dog has ruined. . She unfrended me (boo hoo). Unfortunately a few moments later I got a call from my son asking what was going on. He asked me to take down the post, which I did. My day was ruined and I did it to myself. I'll do better today.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Still too focused on her. You have to learn to let go of anger and resentment. Instead of asking why, you should be focused on why did you miss her flaws. When we place anyone on a pedestal, we lose clarity. No one should be placed on one, not even children, it changes their personality.

You losing it, proves to the outside world that she was correct. It paints you as this bitter and angry person. Talk to a counselor and get help to get that issue resolved. Best way for revenge is to live a better life. Show that your life is better without her. You have some ideas right already by getting into shape. If you become a positive person, people will be wondering why she left you. Make it a mantra and focus on doing what makes you happy, have fun, and keep being social. Create new friends, and the more connections you make, the faster your bond with her will break. In order to maintain the new bonds, you will have to expend emotional energy, and your emotions towards her will dry up the less you feed it.


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## HeartbrokenW

Her unfriending you is good. You need to take it one step further and BLOCK her. Then you won't see any comments at all. You need to delete all pictures of your prior life together..anything that can trigger an episode you just went through. Going forward, its you and the kids...


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## Ynot

Mr Fisty, thank you for the kick in Azz! I needed it. Today will be better.


----------



## JustFree

I keep falling back similar to you but as time has past day by day the bad thoughts and feelings are getting more apart from one another and I do not go so deep in a depression. My good days are getting better as well. I read a book that was suggested from someone from this site called Models by Mark Manson. At the end of the book there is a phrase, "What if it was a gift". It struck a chord with me. We never know what the future holds. 
A lifestyle of infidelity by my wife crushed me and still to some point does. I commend you for going out on a date. I have not progressed enough for that yet and it has been several months now I have been out. My hat is off to you.


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## Chuck71

Ynot....just take things step by step. My first date was actually a couple days before 

we filed for D. I felt VERY weird. It could have been a Playboy bunny and I'd

have still felt weird. By the time I met the next relationship girl, I was 95% detached.

The importance of detaching is key because, with that new gal, it was a pure

chance meeting. If I was not near 100% detached, I would most likely not have

picked up on her body language. Every story has a backstory. You are writing

your backstories now. Before you know it, you will be writing a story.

Funny thing is...you don't even know you're writing the story until you get 

to around Chapter 3. Hang in there!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> I had another back slide, the other night. After my date I was sitting here feeling sorry myself and getting more angry by the minute that my ex could do what she has done. Then the dog decided to crap and pee all over the carpet which put me over the top. I was surfing the web and eventually ended up on FB. I was looking at the pictures of our vacations and reading all the comments about what a beautiful family we had and how we were making memories etc. H would always respond with a smiley face or a blushing face or some other kind of face. I couldn't help myself and gave into temptation. "Yes, it was beautiful family, until H decided to quit and walk away" The next morning the post was hidden. but I was still feeling pissed. "Why don't you tell them how you destroyed that beautiful family by quitting and walking out?" Then I opened IM and started taunting her about being a coward and a quitter and demanding money for carpet cleaning, dog food and the blinds the dog has ruined. . She unfrended me (boo hoo). Unfortunately a few moments later I got a call from my son asking what was going on. He asked me to take down the post, which I did. My day was ruined and I did it to myself. I'll do better today.


I have to admit, I pulled a few similar moves after my last split. Not my prouder moments. Fight the temptation to do those things because you only prove them right in the end by behaving that way. Shake it off and realize that its normal. Onward and upward!

Oh and as for your date...kudos for getting out there and trying! But its too soon for you. Give yourself time.


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## Ynot

So its been over a week since my last post. I was rereading a few of my more recent posts. I can see the meds were really talking, not me.
The last week has been a real roller coaster. I have come to the realization that maybe I have bitten off more than I can chew. My problems at work have been semi-resolved. Only time will tell. I had called HR about the issue. They wanted to set up a meeting with all parties to discuss the issues. I asked for next week. They said OK. So I take my computer home to organize my emails and documentation. I am reading through my email exhanges as I replay my conversations with HR in my head and come to the realization - that I am the problem. The story I spun to HR and my email replies were not the person I was/am. I sent my supervisor an email apologizing for my actions and accepting full responsibility. I called HR the next morning to tell them I wanted to stop. My supervisor stopped my desk to say we would be having a meeting later that day. A little while later my phone rings - it is the first guy from HR. He says he is in the building today and would like to meet - can I came down to the conference room" He is there with a security investigator, but I am not to worry I am not in any trouble. So I go to room and these two guys ask me if I know why they are there? I say probably to determine if I am a risk to others. They said even beyond that it is if I am a risk to myself. I tell them no to both. I am just having trouble adapting to my entire life being turned upside down and that I feel as though I have no background in which to place my actions in context. Looking back at my emails and replaying the conversations in my head made me realize that - that was not me. I am not confrontational, I am not aggressive, I am not belligerent, in fact I will try to do everything to avoid confrontation and only fight when trapped with no way out. They said it was good that I self-identified and said they were there for me and offered to help seek the resources I needed to make myself whole. They said that every one has some rough times and from I told them about mine, I was definitely having them.
The next day I met with my supervisor. I apologized for my actions and took full responsibility for them. I told her that I do not blame her in any way. I told her the same thing I told the other two guys - I was having trouble adapting to my new life and had no background, no north star, to gauge my actions against for reference.
Which brings me to my observation that I feel as though I moved to much and to far to fast. My entire existence has been turned upside down. When my ex dropped the bomb I fled. I had no desire to live in the house, no desire to stay in the town we had lived in, no desire to continue my job, I wanted to be gone from the pain and the hurt and I fled. I now live in a strange apartment, in a strange town, work in a strange place with strange people. Every where that I go I see strangers. Everything that I do is with strangers. Every daily habit has changed. Every daily routine has been changed. 
There is nothing I can do about these things now. I cannot go back. The house is gone. The damage has been done. In fact I have no reason to go back at all. It is all gone. There is no going home. There is only existing here for the time being.
I am coming to grips with issues slowly. But I still have no clarity. I am weaning myself off the anxiety meds. I have taken fewer and fewer over the past week and did not take any yesterday. I still have the anxiety but I am being forced to confront it rather than hide from it as I was doing with the meds.


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## jin

Thanks for sharing. Are you getting any IC? 

You will get through this and be in a better place soon.


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## Ynot

jin, thank you for the encouragement. I was seeing a counselor back where I used to live. When I moved I couldn't keep up with follow up because of time and distance. Once I started on the meds I experienced a great deal of relief. I thought I could do it alone. I realize now, I need help and have an IC appointment lined up for Tuesday morning. Every one tells me I will be better off soon. I guess I am just tired of the free fall and want it to end.


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## Mr.Fisty

Gaining acceptence will help. Your not there yet, and until you learn to let go, she still has a lot of power over you. You want her to act a certain way, and make her acknowledge what she has done. If you focus on you and accept the fact you can't make her do anything, you can detach and keep yourself that way, so so later on you feel more indifference about it. Eventually, you want to reach the point where the only contact you have is about the children. Cut her out of your life as much as possible.


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## Ynot

Mr.Fisty said:


> Gaining acceptence will help. Your not there yet, and until you learn to let go, she still has a lot of power over you. You want her to act a certain way, and make her acknowledge what she has done. If you focus on you and accept the fact you can't make her do anything, you can detach and keep yourself that way, so so later on you feel more indifference about it. Eventually, you want to reach the point where the only contact you have is about the children. Cut her out of your life as much as possible.


I agree with you. I think the meds were keeping me from gaining acceptance, because it was masking the anxiety and not forcing me to confront the issue. I would prefer to not be on any mind altering drugs at this time. I had reread some of my more recent posts and saw the steep plunge from one to the next as the drugs wore off. Rather than masking them whether with alcohol, pot, or pharmaceuticals I will be better off to take on the issues my self with a clear mind. One of the things I have always prided my self on was being rational and reasonable. That has certainly not been the case here.


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## JustFree

Ynot, you are one cool guy. I mean it really! You absolutely will come out of this a better person than when you went into it. You are very self aware and are pushing against the wall of crap consciously with your mind seeking to fix this within yourself.
I am gong through similar stuff but I am just a few months ahead of you. I find that I do have set backs and sometimes they come several days in a row but as I am sure you have experienced they are coming a little less often and last just a little less and go not as deep as before. Every so often I have days or parts of days that I feel great. This will give us hope that these come more often. Good luck and always refrain from doing anything rash.

"What if it was a gift"


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## Ynot

JustFree said:


> Ynot, you are one cool guy. I mean it really! You absolutely will come out of this a better person than when you went into it. You are very self aware and are pushing against the wall of crap consciously with your mind seeking to fix this within yourself.
> I am gong through similar stuff but I am just a few months ahead of you. I find that I do have set backs and sometimes they come several days in a row but as I am sure you have experienced they are coming a little less often and last just a little less and go not as deep as before. Every so often I have days or parts of days that I feel great. This will give us hope that these come more often. Good luck and always refrain from doing anything rash.
> 
> "What if it was a gift"


I just came from a counseling session. It really helped me to regain some perspective. I have taken quite a few major hits over the past few years. One of the things he touched on was my reaction to filing bankruptcy after I was blindsided by the mortgage meltdown. That was seven years ago. It was over that period of time that my marriage started falling apart as I was focused on other things with no support from the ex. 
He counseled me that the things I am feeling are not unique. I am not alone. They can and will be fixed. I have another session on Thursday. Right now I feel calm and collected for the first time in a few months. 
He liked the idea of me weaning myself from the meds and facing the issues my self rather than masking them with drugs. It felt good to get some external validation. I am feeling a little hopeful for the first time in months if not years. I actually found my self thinking yesterday - what if it was a gift!


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## Ynot

I had another IC session on Thursday. I had been pretty calm thru the days leading to the session. But I broke down a lot thru out the session itself. The counselor has made some really mind bending observations that he has shared with me. I am not going to get into the psycho-analytical aspect, but some of the things he noted have really made me think. At one point he stopped interrupted me as I blamed myself and expressed my feelings of being a loser. After he had made the point as to how far I had come in life from where I started, I started to cry. I said I felt I had come far but now it was all gone. He asked me, "What is all gone? Do you not have a daughter who is a nurse? Do you not have a son who is a doctor? Are you saying those are gone? That they never happened?" It made me think that my life has not been a waste. That while I have had some setbacks I have also had many successes as well. I need to refocus on the successes to put the setbacks into perspective. The losses and setbacks do not define me by themselves. Rather it is my reactions to them that do.


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## Ynot

Some other random observations -
It has now been approximately ten days since I last took a Xanex and perhaps two full weeks since taking the Klonepin (sp?). My mind is much more focused and relaxed. I am actually sleeping better than I had been. I still get periods of anxiety thru out the day, but I am able to regain control much faster than before. I realize that the anxiety serves no purpose. I can not do anything about my wife leaving me. The only thing I can do is move forward towards a better me. 
My clear headedness has also allowed me the opportunity to revisit my recent past from a different perspective. Early on in the process, I was desperate to save my marriage. I identified stressors in my life and eliminated them. But I did so from the standpoint that she was not to blame. The reality of it is, is that she really was to blame. Her lack of respect and appreciation for me, were really the driving forces of my depression and unhappiness. I think back to how many times I tried to broach the topic with her and how many times I got "I am trying to do the best that I can do and if you don't like it, I am leaving" response to each attempt. I would go for a couple of days and typically go and apologize to her, make another accommodation, and become that much less of who I was in order to not have her leave. 
Even the way it played out at the end reinforces this observation. She placed the carrot of potential reconciliation in my face thru out the process in order to gain the things that she wanted. In the meantime she continued to beat me with the stick of she was leaving and there would be NOTHING! if I didn't cooperate and go along to get along. Again displaying her lack of respect and appreciation


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## Mr.Fisty

You became a pleaser hoping she would stay and lost yourself along the way. You did not have a certain level of independence and you were codependent on her validation of you. If you haven't gain that insight, I hope it helps you out.


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## Ynot

Mr.Fisty said:


> You became a pleaser hoping she would stay and lost yourself along the way. You did not have a certain level of independence and you were codependent on her validation of you. If you haven't gain that insight, I hope it helps you out.


Actually I think that is what I was trying to say. Thank you for distilling my observations down into the succinct statement you just made. That is exactly what happened and where I ended up. The heart ache of the end of my marriage was not a result of the loss of her, but more the result of the loss of her validation of me. Once again, Mr Fisty, thank you for your keen insight!


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## Mr.Fisty

has your therapist ever mention to you, that you seek affirmation to feel love, and appreciated? I did a little backtracking, and at your workplace, your boss does not give you your due. You feel dissatisfaction. 

Also, if you ever get into another relationship, there are women who require acts of service to feel love. Someone like that would match you well. Just keep your boundaries, and independence in place.


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## Ynot

Random thoughts-
I just reread this entire thread. What a roller coaster. Even beyond the daily ups and downs, the day to day, week to week ups and downs has been quite a roller coaster. I saw idle boasts, medicated chest thumping, self destructive inflection and bouts of self pity. 
When the wheels fell off, I was blindsided by something I probably already knew was coming I cannot describe the absolute hole I was in. I had become hopeless at my lot in life. Hopeless to the point that I wasn't paying attention to what was happening around me. I was aware of it and fed my hopelessness but I never recognized it.
The suddenness of my recognition, due to the fact that I was forced to face the issue of my failing marriage, took me completely by surprise. My fight or flight response kicked in. I think I did a little of both, badly. I tried to fight for something that was already beyond fighting for while at the same time fleeing from the pain.
In retrospect, both actions were self destructive. Fighting an unwinnable battle left me frustrated. Fleeing from the situation placed in an unfamiliar place.
I attempted to mask my frustration and pain with prescription meds. All they really did was mask the issue and numbed my thinking towards them. 
When the meds wore off, I crashed. The wave of pain and hurt and frustration had never been dealt with, only held in check by the meds.
As I crashed from the meds, the waves overtook me and I lashed out.
The drugs are now almost completely out of my system. I still have issues to be dealt with. But I am doing so with a clear head.

I am now truly working on some solutions. For the first time in months I do have some real sense of hopefulness about the future. I know the dreams that I had harbored are not going to come true. Now I need to dream some new dreams. I need to reflect on what really will make me happy. 
Some of the things I felt were stressors, weren't really stressors at all. At least not by themselves. I gave up my business and with it my freedom and independence. But the fact is, is that I loved the life style it afforded me. The stress came from trying to live my life to someone else's expectations. I think about returning to the field. I do not know that I can be happy working in a cubicle for the next fifteen years.
I know that I will not be making any rash decisions moving forward. I am going to see how things shake out here over the next month and a half before I make any decisions. 
I have been active on a few dating sites. I have managed to have some sort of date(s) every weekend for the past four weekends. None of the dates have lead to anything as of yet. But I am not looking for a relationship, so I am not upset. As some have suggested elsewhere. I am simply "nexting" them as I go. If I see something I do not like or am not feeling connected I am moving on to the next one. So far I have had a couple of second dates. In the meantime, I am working on the next batch.


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## Mr.Fisty

It is good to see that your finding clarity. Even though you feel pain, you have to survive through them. It is okay to feel the emotions, and let them run their course. The more we are attach to something, the more it has a chance to make us suffer. Also letting go of those attachments, it takes away the power it has to affect you. Look online of finding ways of detaching. Like when you recognized that it was the validation from your ex is what kept you attached for so long, I am sure the change in prospective has helped you detach somewhat. If you took a more critical look at your marriage and ex, the reality of what you believed before has changed.


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## Ynot

Baby steps?
So last month I got an email from my ex. She wanted copies of our last two years tax returns. I said I would see if I could find them and then forgot about it. She said it would be a good idea for her to have them. 
After I had my melt down a few weeks ago, I come to find out that the reason she needed them was so she could buy a condo. (her BFF/roomie found a loser to latch onto off some online fvck site and moved out on her, after less than three months).
So last week I get another email asking me to please send her the tax returns, as she needed them. I told her I would see what I could do this weekend and send them - nothing more. I did not lash out or d anything other than to say I would see what I could do.
Since that email exchange I had been thinking of seeking vindication, acknowledgement, confirmation, acceptance of responsibility, recognition or whatever from her before I would send the copies. I finally decided not even to go there. There was nothing positive that could come out of it and it would just make me look bad and give more credence to her lies.
This morning I got up and just decided I would send them without getting in to it with her.
Then I met my daughter for lunch and in the course of our conversation she slipped up and told me about her student loan payment coming due and how much it was. I got very upset. Over the past four years, I had paid out of my pocket an amount equal to roughly the balance she owed (over $30,000) . I did this and my ex had offered me NOTHING in assistance, despite the fact that my ex was making over $50,000 a year. I remembered my ex snipping at me about not wanting her daughter to owe a ton of money when she got out of school.
So I get back from lunch and sit down to send the tax returns. But I am still very upset about how much my daughter owes and the fact that my ex made over $50,000 a year, contributed nothing towards her educational expenses (or household expenses for that matter) but had plenty of money to piss away on clothes, GNOs, girl's weekends, cruises etc,. I started to type out a belligerent email about all of the above but decided not to sink to that level. Instead I simply sent the past years tax return along with a statement that I am not currently able to scan the 2012's return until I had a memory stick or USB cable. That I would be picking one up some time this week when my schedule allowed for it and would send it then. Nothing more, no emotional lashing out - nothing
I know it is a small step but at least it is a step forward.


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## Ynot

Mr.Fisty said:


> It is good to see that your finding clarity. Even though you feel pain, you have to survive through them. It is okay to feel the emotions, and let them run their course. The more we are attach to something, the more it has a chance to make us suffer. Also letting go of those attachments, it takes away the power it has to affect you. Look online of finding ways of detaching. Like when you recognized that it was the validation from your ex is what kept you attached for so long, I am sure the change in prospective has helped you detach somewhat. If you took a more critical look at your marriage and ex, the reality of what you believed before has changed.


Actually I have been taking a more critical look at my marriage and the reality of what I had believed before has changed. I now see the levels of manipulation that were plyed on top of each other. All the way past the very end to the present. "We are forever linked by OUR children" being just the latest. As I said she held out the carrot of reconciliation while beating me with the stick of having NOTHING! if I did not cooperate.


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## LongWalk

A lot of regrets over the lack of boundaries.


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## Ynot

LongWalk said:


> A lot of regrets over the lack of boundaries.


Absolutely. I know there is nothing I can do about the past except recognize my mistakes and learn from them.


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## Chuck71

We learn much more from reflection.....than living in the moment.

In my case....UG ran at the first sign of conflict but in the past, had swore

to stand by my side through anything. :lol:

My rock turned out to be a chicken schit


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## Ynot

Well it is the end of another week. One more week of no contact and another week farther removed from the turmoil. That is not to say there is no turmoil now, just that I am that much farther from the eye of the storm. I still have moments of overwhelming emotions and I know the next two weeks are going to be very difficult. But I have no choice other than to go forward. And keep on keeping on. I have been thinking about MY future and what I want.
The more I think about the more I want out of the cubicle and out on my own again. I took the job because at the time I thought I was doing what she wanted. She dangled the carrot of reconciliation in my face and that is what drove my decision. Now that that is off the table, I really beginning to realize that this is now about me making myself happy. I know I heard it from every body and any body that I needed to think about myself. And I thought I was. The reality of it was that I wasn't. I do not claim to know that I know what I want or who I am at this point. I cannot claim to understand what people mean when they say I have to become more selfish, but I can say I am beginning to realize what selfishness really is all about. To be clear I am not talking about irrational selfishness or greed, but the rational selfishness of a healthy self conscious human being. As some have stated, I was seeking my validation from others instead of generating myself. I am really beginning to understand that.
So I am actively pursuing getting back to the part of my life that I enjoyed. I want to be in control of my time, my schedule, my income, and my life. I have sent out feelers to my old clients to gauge how receptive they would be to having me back on their fee panel. I am actively exploring properties in the area for possible purchase. I am actively trying to get as much inside scoop as I possibly can from my current employer, so that when I do go out, I do so with the inside knowledge that can only make my skills that much more valuable.
In the meantime, I went to the doctor to today for a consult on a vasectomy. I can schedule it any time after the first of the year. But tomorrow I have to go to the dermatologist to have the lesion on my temple looked at. Once I get a definite confirmation I am in the clear as far as that goes, I will schedule the procedure. If the lesion is cancerous I will wait until I get the all clear before I proceed. 
Tonite I have a second date and on Sunday I am meeting another woman for a museum exhibit. Tomorrow some friends are coming to visit. The weekend is full, so I won't be sitting around thinking about my past.


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## Mr.Fisty

Ynot said:


> Well it is the end of another week. One more week of no contact and another week farther removed from the turmoil. That is not to say there is no turmoil now, just that I am that much farther from the eye of the storm. I still have moments of overwhelming emotions and I know the next two weeks are going to be very difficult. But I have no choice other than to go forward. And keep on keeping on. I have been thinking about MY future and what I want.
> The more I think about the more I want out of the cubicle and out on my own again. I took the job because at the time I thought I was doing what she wanted. She dangled the carrot of reconciliation in my face and that is what drove my decision. Now that that is off the table, I really beginning to realize that this is now about me making myself happy. I know I heard it from every body and any body that I needed to think about myself. And I thought I was. The reality of it was that I wasn't. I do not claim to know that I know what I want or who I am at this point. I cannot claim to understand what people mean when they say I have to become more selfish, but I can say I am beginning to realize what selfishness really is all about. To be clear I am not talking about irrational selfishness or greed, but the rational selfishness of a healthy self conscious human being. As some have stated, I was seeking my validation from others instead of generating myself. I am really beginning to understand that.
> So I am actively pursuing getting back to the part of my life that I enjoyed. I want to be in control of my time, my schedule, my income, and my life. I have sent out feelers to my old clients to gauge how receptive they would be to having me back on their fee panel. I am actively exploring properties in the area for possible purchase. I am actively trying to get as much inside scoop as I possibly can from my current employer, so that when I do go out, I do so with the inside knowledge that can only make my skills that much more valuable.
> In the meantime, I went to the doctor to today for a consult on a vasectomy. I can schedule it any time after the first of the year. But tomorrow I have to go to the dermatologist to have the lesion on my temple looked at. Once I get a definite confirmation I am in the clear as far as that goes, I will schedule the procedure. If the lesion is cancerous I will wait until I get the all clear before I proceed.
> Tonite I have a second date and on Sunday I am meeting another woman for a museum exhibit. Tomorrow some friends are coming to visit. The weekend is full, so I won't be sitting around thinking about my past.



I think the selfishness we suggested is priority. You have to figure what your needs are, what will make you content, and not putting others issues before yours.


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## LongWalk

Vasectomy? Yikes!

Maybe it's just me that doesn't like the thought of the knife down there.

Your current employer has been a good experience for you. If you don't like the atmosphere and can make a living in some other way, why not?


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## Chuck71

never let a job define you. I am very in tune with Karl Marx but....

understand his compare / contrast with the job.

Communist Manifesto 1848


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## Ynot

Well the dermatologist thinks I have a basal cell carcinoma on my temple. The did a biopsy to confirm. If that is all it is, I have schedule a Mohs procedure, where they go in a shave layer after layer of tissue away until they excise the entire root of the basal cell. So for now the vasectomy is off the table. Assuming they get it all there will be no more follow up required, aside from having the stitches removed a week later. In the meantime, I just have to wait and see what the results are.
Meanwhile this week has been exceptionally sh1tty. It has been horrible to sit and listen to all the other cubicle dwellers talk about their holiday planes with their families. I have had to take several walks a days to go off and find composure from the pain that wells up from just below the surface. 
I am heading to my sisters tomorrow and have to come back to work on Friday. Then I have to find something to do on Saturday while my ex has her Christmas with the kids. I get Sunday. The on Monday I have to head to my brothers house for Christmas with him and his family. I can't wait for the holidays to be over.
On another front, I heard back from some former clients. They said they would have no problem placing me back on their fee panels since the only reason I was taken off was because I asked to be. So I know there is some opportunity there.


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## Ynot

Well, here it is 12/26/2014 and I am still alive. I still need a cup of coffee and I still need to take a dump. I honestly thought I would not make it thru Christmas.


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## Ynot

Another week has passed. I do not know if I am improving or just getting used to it. I am still prone to sudden break downs, where I have to go off by myself to compose myself. I am coming to terms with how unhappy I was, but it pales in comparison to how unhappy I am. I am alone and I feel it acutely and absolutely. 

As I untangle the ball of twine, I am finding that I have issues with fear of abandonment which caused me to become very codependent. I had made my marriage and my wife my foundation. I built my world upon them. I made accommodations for all the shortcomings of the marriage and my wife in order to sustain my fantasy of belonging. Over time I created a relationship bubble of inflated expectations, When it popped I was left devastated. I hurt like hell.

I KNOW that the only way to get better is to fix myself. I KNOW that I have to find out what will make me happy. I KNOW that I have learn to deal with my fear of abandonment so that in the future I can face it rationally. Facing the fear rationally will prevent the same codependent behavior I inflicted on myself before. Facing the fear rationally will prevent me from never trusting anyone again. I know what I need to do, now I guess it is just up to me to figure out how to do it. 

Suggestions are always welcome. I am wavering on my decision to reopen my business. I do not know if returning to the area might really set me back. It would definitely isolate me even more from my family on a day to day basis. But I don't get to see them on a day to day basis anyways. OTOH, I cannot stand the cubicle world. I hate having my hours dictated to me and begging for days off. I am giving myself until the end of the month to work thru the issues.

On a side note
Went to see Unbroken. Don't waste your money. The movie is just a modern day version of the Passion of Christ placed in a World War II setting. It never gets into the gist of the story, it only shows the suffering without context.


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## HeartbrokenW

I *totally* get how you're feeling. I've been divorced now close to 2 yrs, and I still have these exact feelings but one difference is I still have my daughter (14) living at home, so I haven't been TOTALLY alone. I really dread the time when she graduates though and she embarks on the next part of her life. I didn't sign up to be single in my 50's. And while I know in my head that I will be better off in the long run (he was a drug user, and he hid it from me for 13 years. In the end, he chose the drugs over us) I still miss having someone to lean on, someone I can share my day with, discuss adult things with, intimacy. He was my best friend and I trusted him. I'm finding it hard to trust again. I still don't know how I could have missed this. (Well, I kinda do, he was an over the road truck driver, I didn't keep tabs on him.) 

Sounds like your employer kinda sucks... I'm in a cubicle too, but its not 8 hrs in a chair. There's a lot of moving around. We're a global company so there are calls in the evening, and they are real good about giving us flex time. But I like my job (IT support for manufacturing company, with 20 sites in 8? countries I think it is.) and I've been there 19 yrs so I have a lot of vacation. But I do know this. You have to like what you do, or you will hate going to work. If you can swing it, I'd seriously consider starting your business up again.


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## Chuck71

You work, provide for your family, make them feel secure....isn't that what 

guys were told to do? The job thing....t can carry over into your non-job life.

If you feel it will not change, crank out the resumes. I'm doing a p/t thing which

I am not crazy about but....they will never own me. And if my 100% is not enough,

politely tell me....I'll save you the paperwork. Maintaining happiness while rugsweeping

was my mistake (and the XWs) but it is more common than you think.

Setting your boundaries are the utmost important. You accept and allow what you

enjoy.


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## Ynot

Quick update - Monday the dermatologist calls - Basal Cell Carcinoma. Mohs secheduled for next Monday. 
Today - take dog to vet - has liver failure. Euthanasia scheduled for tomorrow. 
Boy oh boy I can't wait to see what Friday brings


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## 3Xnocharm

Oh no, Im so sorry!  Hang in there, Y.


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## Ynot

I had my dog put down on Thursday. He was never my dog, but I took him in and kept in for the past six months. I never realized how much he meant to me, how much he symbolized to me, but now he is gone. Yet another reason to grieve.

I am so sick of grieving.


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> I had my dog put down on Thursday. He was never my dog, but I took him in and kept in for the past six months. I never realized how much he meant to me, how much he symbolized to me, but now he is gone. Yet another reason to grieve.
> 
> I am so sick of grieving.


Had to put down my xBiL's dog right before Christmas. He had been with me

since 2006. He was pretty much mine...regardless. You will have good

stretches and bad ones. I did with my XW. Even though you know the carnage 

is all on her....still hurts.


----------



## Ynot

Had my basal cell carcinoma removed yesterday. Golf ball sized chunk of skin removed from my right temple, then about that much more flesh removed to enable doctor to stitch me up so that my face wouldn't be mangled. Now I have half my fore head covered in gauze and tape. Real attractive, I am sure the ladies will be knocking down my doors now!


----------



## Chuck71

maybe....... a nurse??????


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> maybe....... a nurse??????


HaHa! My daughter is a nurse. I am sure that isn't what you meant. but she stopped after work to change my bandages. She said my incision had good proximation. Which means it should heal with hardly ant noticible scarring


----------



## Ynot

It has been a few weeks. I've had some really bad days and some just OK days. Still waiting for a really great day to come along.

I realized the other day that I have been stressed out for probably 18 months or so. I haven't felt truly relaxed and at peace with myself or world in all that time. I am really getting tired of it.

I started going to a new counselor earlier this week and have appointments scheduled for the nest three weeks. Which is a change for me. In the past I would go and say I would call and sometimes I did and sometimes I didn't. This guy was pretty down to earth and he kept asking me some good questions (they all have I guess). At one point he said to me "you can do whatever the fvck you want to do! So why the fvck not do it? What are so fvcking afraid of?" The vulgarity was refreshing and eye opening at the same time. Sadly this is the very same thing my friends and family have been telling me for months. 

So I am thinking of buying a motorcycle. My X was dead set against them and I have always wanted one, so now is the time! Any advice on a bike for a novice would be appreciated. basically I am looking for something to just cruise around on. Not planning on racing or going off road. Perhaps a few longer road trips a year but mainly just evening rides in the country (hopefully with a lade friend along for the ride).

I have had a couple of dates and there seems to be some interest in me on the various dating sites I have been on. I went out on a third date last night. She had been texting me over the past couple of weeks. We met at a local tavern and saw some pretty awesome live music. I realized about half way through the night that I hadn't really thought about my X at all. So we stayed for the whole show, I walked her to her car and we kissed good night I invited her back to my place but she declined since it was so late (1:30AM) so we made plans to go out next week. I realized on the way home, that she was the first woman that I had frenched with in over 25 years other than my X. I know it isn't much, but I still feel somewhat liberated that I don't really feel guilty today. The first couple of dates, even the act of meeting another woman for possible future romance made me feel guilty.

That is all for now. I am heading back to my old home town this week end to visit some friends. I'll see how that goes. I haven't been back in a few months.


----------



## Chuck71

Close a bar at 3AM.....it's your stomping ground. I can relate to frenching, 

but in my case it was 15 years. Do you have flashbacks to right before you

met your X? I sure did. I wanted a motorcycle but.....I love speed too much.

Had I got one, I may not be here today. You are in a process...it takes time.

If you were on my back deck....I would have told you the same thing the IC

told you, probably in a more colorful tone. But in my sessions on the deck

alcohol is required


----------



## jin

I am going to get a motor cycle too. I say go for it! i really miss my riding days when i was young and carefree.


----------



## Ynot

Visited my old home town this week end to see some friends. It was not as bad as I thought it would be. I stopped an met up with my college room mate along the way. I thought I had it bad until I heard his story. Then I heard his twin brother's story. Later I heard the story about a woman I have known since grade school. Turns out as crappy as my story goes, it could have been a lot worse. 
I had dinner in one of my favorite places with my friends and later met an old neighbor for a few beers at the local "hot" spot. Saturday night 9PM all of six people sitting around staring at their belly buttons. I had been pondering moving back there, but now I am not so sure - no social life what so ever taking place there!
After dinner I met with my friends again and spent the night at my buddy's house. The next morning we went to breakfast and it was the same thing as the night before. Nobody there and no social interaction.
I had been considering moving back there. But now I am not so sure.


----------



## Chuck71

On TAM it will not take long before you read a story a lot worse than yours.

There is something to be said for small towns....I tried the big city

years ago.....I learned quick I prefer crickets to car horns.


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> On TAM it will not take long before you read a story a lot worse than yours.
> 
> There is something to be said for small towns....I tried the big city
> 
> years ago.....I learned quick I prefer crickets to car horns.


Not to downplay anybody's plight, but there is something to be said about it hitting close to home by hearing of a friend's problems. 

I had lived in a small town for the past 25 years. I had no problem with a lack of night life when I knew I would spend Friday and Saturday night with my family. Not so sure I want to go back to a place that has so little to do by myself. Friday night I went to a pub near my apartment to meet a woman I've gone out with a few times. I got there early and it was filled with targets of opportunity. Saturday I went to the nicest bar in podunkville and it was half empty and dead.


----------



## Ynot

I had a great first date last night with a new woman. Sushi dinner followed by three hours of Galaga at Dave and Busters. Probably one of the funnest dates I have ever been on.


----------



## Ynot

Second date with new lady tonight. Pretty excited, we have been texting and talking on phone since first date. Lot's of flirting and inside jokes. Keeping it all in perspective but really enjoying it. I have no idea where or if it will lead anyplace. But at least I know I can still have fun and enjoy a woman's friendly (but interested) company.
My counselor has been telling me to watch for coincidences I have been oblivious to over the past months. Boy am I seeing some now. Today happens to be my ex's birthday and the lady I am seeing has a name that my ex used to hate - hehe!
Also got to enjoy lunch with MY daughter, while the ex got a facebook HB! from her instead HEHE! I'll take face time over facebook all day, everyday!
Things are slowly getting better.


----------



## Chuck71

Patience...... enjoy the moment for what it is..... IF this new gal is something 

special.... let it unfold slowly. Gives you more time to enjoy it, if so.

You have hit a corner...... enjoy the curve but don't spin out.

Look forward to you update on date #2


----------



## Ynot

Well date #2 went great as well. Lot's more sexy banter and teasing. I heard somethings I really like and nothing I dislike. So far no red flags and clear sailing. Already planning date #3. Texted back and forth today, but we were both pretty tired. I didn't get home until 11:30 last night and had to be to work by 7 so not much sleep at all.


----------



## Chuck71

welcome to the world of dating :rofl: you'll get by on 4 hours sleep often


----------



## Ynot

Date #3 is tonight. She is coming to my place to watch a movie. From the tone of our text conversations I don't think the movie is going to get much attention :^)!


----------



## Ynot

Bummer, date #3 was cancelled. She had a bug earlier in the week and hasn't quite gotten over it. Oh well, it won't be the first Saturday I've spent alone and it probably won't be my last. I just hope she feels better so that we can try to get together later this week.


----------



## BoyScout

Okay, Ynot, we need an update. I am a few months behind you in this process and while my split, even though it was all her idea, has been amicable I've learned a bunch from your story. I contemplated switching jobs and moving until I read your story.


----------



## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> Okay, Ynot, we need an update. I am a few months behind you in this process and while my split, even though it was all her idea, has been amicable I've learned a bunch from your story. I contemplated switching jobs and moving until I read your story.


Wow BoyScout, I just read your thread. We have been dealt very similar hands in the game of fate. I could have written every word you wrote as my own!
Anyways, the selling of the house, the move, the closing of my business and the new job were way too much for me to bite down on all at once. When my ex made her decision, I thought everything I was doing would some how set up for a reconciliation, as I had eliminated most every issue she had complained about. The problem was I did them for her and not for me. Those issues were just the surface of her issues. I couldn't do anything about those and probably neither you nor I will really know or understand what those issues were/are.
My problem now, as I said was that I made changes for her and not for myself. Presently I find myself with limited social opportunities as I live in a new city that I am not familiar with, and have no local friends. In addition I took a job that I am really not happy with. In some ways I feel trapped. I feel I was betrayed and manipulated into this on the basis of promises made or at least promises that I felt were made. 
Therein lies my real issue at the moment. I don't trust my self at this point in time. I want to move on and I want to put this behind me. But I had told myself that I was making the changes for me and now I don't/can't trust my self any longer. I am having a great deal of difficulty resolving THIS aspect of the divorce. Much more so than the divorce itself. 
I understand that we grew apart. We each entered into our marriage via free will and she chose to exit it the same. I get that. What I can't get over is my lack of trust in my self.
I have been weak and beaten. I have lashed out and made huge mistakes. I am not an overly emotional person. In fact I am a very rational person, but I can't seem to the put the genie of emotion back in the bottle.
There was a lot of good advise in your thread and I hope that my poor examples give you some guidance on where not to go on your journey.


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot...... you lost who you were.... but over a 25 year period... easy to do

yes you become one when married but you should keep your own identity 

my XW would get upset if I spent $$ on a set of baseball cards. Why..

she wanted it all spent on her. Deal was.... I have fooled with baseball cards

for about 30 years..... it's no hidden deal. What I will buy a set for....I always

make sure I can re-sell it for at least what I paid for it. That is a controlled hobby.

But it would not be spent on her. I spent money on her but LOL nowhere near

all of it. She told me once as we were nearing D final, "the things I did without,"

I did not reply to her then...... but her reach a year later..... I did say, 

"you never did with out..... see our debt."


----------



## daddymikey1975

Chuck71 said:


> Ynot...... you lost who you were.... but over a 25 year period... easy to do
> 
> yes you become one when married but you should keep your own identity
> 
> my XW would get upset if I spent $$ on a set of baseball cards. Why..
> 
> she wanted it all spent on her. Deal was.... I have fooled with baseball cards
> 
> for about 30 years..... it's no hidden deal. What I will buy a set for....I always
> 
> make sure I can re-sell it for at least what I paid for it. That is a controlled hobby.
> 
> But it would not be spent on her. I spent money on her but LOL nowhere near
> 
> all of it. She told me once as we were nearing D final, "the things I did without,"
> 
> I did not reply to her then...... but her reach a year later..... I did say,
> 
> "you never did with out..... see our debt."


Sounds like she was (or wanted to be) a spoiled brat.


----------



## Regretf

daddymikey1975 said:


> Sounds like she was (or wanted to be) a spoiled brat.


Princess syndrome, i know it well.

Ynot, hang in there. I'm having a hard time with my divorce as well and i was married for much less time than you. it's hard because i can't trust myself either and i changed a lot of things for her but should have done them for me.

Always think that it was HER loss, she chose not to fight four your M, a quitter, you will always be able to hang your head high, you did the best you could with what you had, she did not.


----------



## Chuck71

Regretf said:


> Princess syndrome, i know it well.
> 
> Ynot, hang in there. I'm having a hard time with my divorce as well and i was married for much less time than you. it's hard because i can't trust myself either and i changed a lot of things for her but should have done them for me.
> 
> Always think that it was HER loss, she chose not to fight four your M, a quitter, you will always be able to hang your head high, you did the best you could with what you had, she did not.


DMike1975....... she wanted to be an entitled princess but she never quite

attained that goal. Her mom would always bail her out of $ jams.

When I held her accountable..... oh....she didn't like that. I was brought up to

be accountable for every action you take.

Regret-When you first hit the roller coaster you can not think clearly.

That is why TAM is here. I went through mine two years ago.

Mike....Regret.... you guys have a blog started yet?


----------



## Regretf

Chuck71 said:


> DMike1975....... she wanted to be an entitled princess but she never quite
> 
> attained that goal. Her mom would always bail her out of $ jams.
> 
> When I held her accountable..... oh....she didn't like that. I was brought up to
> 
> be accountable for every action you take.
> 
> Regret-When you first hit the roller coaster you can not think clearly.
> 
> That is why TAM is here. I went through mine two years ago.
> 
> Mike....Regret.... you guys have a blog started yet?


I had a thread i started when the shyte hit the fan back in september/october last year. Didn't post anything after late november when my wife told me she wanted the divorce.

Been posting here and there in other people's threads but i think i will open a new one to follow thru.

We are still in the divorce/setlement process and some days are better than others but i'm pulling slowly thru. Thinking that i have to be strong for my son, he needs me. But it saddens me that he will grow up in separate houses instead of one, family unit. And it piss&%(/s me that because of my wife's choice i will have to miss out on so much of my son's everyday life.

His mom is very, very selfish.


----------



## Ynot

Regretf said:


> I had a thread i started when the shyte hit the fan back in september/october last year. Didn't post anything after late november when my wife told me she wanted the divorce.
> 
> Been posting here and there in other people's threads but i think i will open a new one to follow thru.
> 
> We are still in the divorce/setlement process and some days are better than others but i'm pulling slowly thru. Thinking that i have to be strong for my son, he needs me. But it saddens me that he will grow up in separate houses instead of one, family unit. And it piss&%(/s me that because of my wife's choice i will have to miss out on so much of my son's everyday life.
> 
> His mom is very, very selfish.


I can't even begin to imagine the pain I would be in were my children still in the house. If there was one silver lining to all of this, it was that she at least waited until our daughter was out on her own. 

Looking back over the past few years, there were obvious signs that we were drifting apart. I guess at the time I assumed it was just the normal ebb and flow of a relationship I probably should have learned something from the tsunamis. When the water went way out, I should have known the a tidal wave was coming. But I had nothing to filter the experience thru, no context to place it in. When the SHTF I was blindsided (mostly thru my own actions). I made a lot of mistakes before, during and after. 

Looking back I don't know that anything could have changed except for maybe the timeline of events. I had considered and rejected having the "talk" with her. It was just against my nature to give up so I never did. 

But there were definitely things that were bothering me that I could not accommodate, understand or excuse. Had I confronted her earlier, we probably would have just split earlier. In fact any time I attempted to discuss issues with her, her response was "I am doing the best that I can! If you don't like it, I am out of here!" Typically followed with an apology from me and another piece of my self sacrificed on the alter of matrimony. In the end all of my compliance only made me weaker, less of a man, more vulnerable and more fragile. At this point my anger is much more directed at myself than at the divorce itself. 

I posted a thread about self improvement blogs. I was curious how others felt about these two particular blogs. Finding those blogs have helped me a lot. First off, even though they feel like they were written directly towards me and my problems, reason tells me that could not be the case. Secondly the truths they point out and the issues they cover reinforces many of my own observations of where I am at at this moment. So aside from the obvious effects of reading good advice there is the intangible benefit of helping me to realize that I am not quite as lost as I thought myself to be.


----------



## Chuck71

You do not accept, you do not understand

You accept yet.... do not understand

You accept and understand

Ynot..... it is a process. I traveled it just like people before me. I was sort of where

you were talking about with UG back in the fall. I could have kept quiet and rugswept

and we would still be together. But how do you think I would feel? Yeah....

Granted.... it was painful to blow things up but.... I began the grieving process then

Had I not.... I am certain I would have said things I would later regret,

as would she. I ripped off the band aid sooner than later. It is the healthy thing

to do. Course if you asked me that a week after she moved out... lol.... I would

have said the same thing.... I hope.


----------



## Regretf

Chuck71 said:


> DMike1975....... she wanted to be an entitled princess but she never quite
> 
> attained that goal. Her mom would always bail her out of $ jams.
> 
> When I held her accountable..... oh....she didn't like that. I was brought up to
> 
> be accountable for every action you take.
> 
> Regret-When you first hit the roller coaster you can not think clearly.
> 
> That is why TAM is here. I went through mine two years ago.
> 
> Mike....Regret.... you guys have a blog started yet?


Hey Chuck, i updated my thread in the Going thru Divorce section.


----------



## sammy3

dp


----------



## Ynot

The claw back continues. I had a set back a few weeks ago. t threw me for a loop but I have learned from it. Now I feel I am benefitting from what I learned. I have bounced back and feel as though I am ahead of where I was. 
New plans for MY life moving forward are forming in my head. By the end of next month I plan to leave the cubicle and venture out into the world. Just the thought of it excites me to the point that I am having trouble sleeping, thinking of all the things I need to do to get ready!
I have spent the last few days researching and discovering possibilities. I see opportunities now that I didn't see before. Now I need to seize those opportunities for MY benefit, for MY profit.
I could play it safe, stay in the cube, collect a steady paycheck and make someone else rich OR I can take a chance on ME. Restart my business here, take advantage of the experiences I had when I came here and have gained since I got here and live MY dream. I am going for it! I am committed to making my life better, not for anyone else, but simply for ME. Because I deserve it!
Just the act of making a decision has left me feeling empowered. I am going to capitalize on that by following thru and moving forward. I have skills, I have talent, I have the intelligence, I have resources, I have friends and now I have a vision.


----------



## sammy3

Ynot said:


> The claw back continues. I had a set back a few weeks ago. t threw me for a loop but I have learned from it. Now I feel I am benefitting from what I learned. I have bounced back and feel as though I am ahead of where I was.
> New plans for MY life moving forward are forming in my head. By the end of next month I plan to leave the cubicle and venture out into the world. Just the thought of it excites me to the point that I am having trouble sleeping, thinking of all the things I need to do to get ready!
> I have spent the last few days researching and discovering possibilities. I see opportunities now that I didn't see before. Now I need to seize those opportunities for MY benefit, for MY profit.
> I could play it safe, stay in the cube, collect a steady paycheck and make someone else rich OR I can take a chance on ME. Restart my business here, take advantage of the experiences I had when I came here and have gained since I got here and live MY dream. I am going for it! I am committed to making my life better, not for anyone else, but simply for ME. Because I deserve it!
> Just the act of making a decision has left me feeling empowered. I am going to capitalize on that by following thru and moving forward. I have skills, I have talent, I have the intelligence, I have resources, I have friends and now I have a vision.


 Good for you!!! And download on your phone, inspirational speakers of how we really are what we think! There is a lot out there that will help keep you feeling empowered! 

~sammy


----------



## jin

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

I love the positive attitude go for it


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> The claw back continues. I had a set back a few weeks ago. t threw me for a loop but I have learned from it. Now I feel I am benefitting from what I learned. I have bounced back and feel as though I am ahead of where I was.
> New plans for MY life moving forward are forming in my head. By the end of next month I plan to leave the cubicle and venture out into the world. Just the thought of it excites me to the point that I am having trouble sleeping, thinking of all the things I need to do to get ready!
> I have spent the last few days researching and discovering possibilities. I see opportunities now that I didn't see before. Now I need to seize those opportunities for MY benefit, for MY profit.
> I could play it safe, stay in the cube, collect a steady paycheck and make someone else rich OR I can take a chance on ME. Restart my business here, take advantage of the experiences I had when I came here and have gained since I got here and live MY dream. I am going for it! I am committed to making my life better, not for anyone else, but simply for ME. Because I deserve it!
> Just the act of making a decision has left me feeling empowered. I am going to capitalize on that by following thru and moving forward. I have skills, I have talent, I have the intelligence, I have resources, I have friends and now I have a vision.


Perfect example of moving forward 

and defining his own path.....


----------



## Ynot

My plans continue to evolve in my mind. Aside from simply restarting my business, I have a few other ideas I want to explore. Last year I took all the classes to get a realtors license. Now I am going to find a broker to hold my license. I don't really intend to engage in this activity other than on a very part time basis, but it would dovetail nicely with my own business (appraisal). 
I have been thinking about this. One of the great things about my current situation (no wife, no kids) is that I can work when I want. So why not Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday? I take off Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday. Most places and activities are less busy during the week than on the week end. Plus often times cheaper as well. 
The city I moved to has a well developed bike path system My next personal purchase is going to be a hybrid bike. I have already been doing the spinning, so once the weather breaks away I go. Next after that is a kayak. There are tons of small lakes and streams around here. These would be excellent activities to engage during the week. An added benefit would be any one I might meet along the way would most likely be doing the same dance with life that I will be doing.
Another short term project would be to buy a small house to make my own. I did a lot of custom wood work in my old house. I can do the same to a new one. Fix it up, live in it for a few years and sell it for a profit. Then I can move onto the next big dream...
Longer term, I can actually build the house that I want to build, for me. I have always dreamt of building an earth sheltered home. But not just a hole in the ground. One of my ideas is to build a bundt house. A circular house built into the ground. The upper portion of the outside would have glass block windows for natural light. The roof would be green and the center would be enclosed by a glass dome. Under the dome the inside walls would be mirrored glass. The center courtyard (with domed roof) would be landscaped and the mirrored glass would create the mirage of a jungle. 
The only one who can stop me is me. Dare to dream big, don't settle for typical or normal or everyday.


----------



## jin

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

If you can build a house that would be an amazing achievement and something to be pretty proud of. 

Did you decide on getting a motorcycle?


----------



## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



jin said:


> If you can build a house that would be an amazing achievement and something to be pretty proud of.
> 
> Did you decide on getting a motorcycle?


I've been looking. But at the moment I am thinking of putting that off. I need to conserve my resources until I get my business up and running again. Perhaps late spring I may be in a better position to afford a motorcycle.


----------



## Chuck71

Looks like Ynot has dusted himself off and is ready to kick some a$$

brother..... if you ever doubt yourself.... re read your blog.... High 5


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Looks like Ynot has dusted himself off and is ready to kick some a$$
> 
> brother..... if you ever doubt yourself.... re read your blog.... High 5


I am getting there. Not all the way yet. Moments of bravado punctuated by moments of anxiety. I just have to keep moving forward. Eventually the fearlessness will out weight the fear.


----------



## Ynot

Alea iacta est! Today I gave my notice at work that effective 0327/2015 I will be resigning my position to pursue other opportunities. My new supervisor was quite relieved that I was giving him over 3 weeks. I sent my old supervisor an email expressing my gratitude for her patience with me as I floundered in my shattered state early on. She was also pleased to hear that I was beginning to rise from the quagmire of my life to embrace new challenges. 
I also sent another co-worker who mentored me early on an email thanking him for all of his help. Later he stopped by my cube and shook my hand and wished me well. He suggested that I try to get on with all three departments in our group. I started working on that today. I sent another email to the woman in charge of vendor relations for our department advising her of my resignation and plans to go back to the field. Hopefully I will hear from her tomorrow. I now have a number of former clients as well as a list of potential new clients to contact once I have all my paper work in order.
I have already submitted my license renewal. I submitted my application to form an LLC. Tomorrow I will file my application for E&O insurance. When I have all of those I will be ready to start submitting packages to clients. 
In the meantime I need to find a realtor to hold that license. Plans are coming together! 
Now I can't wait for the weather to break. I have set another goal for myself - I am going to ride as many different bike trails as I can this year. I bought a fishing pole yesterday with the intent of fishing again for the first time in ten+years. Hand in hand with that I have been shopping kayaks whenever I am out. That is another goal of mine this year. I have always wanted to do it, so why not now? I've spent 25 years doing nothing for myself. Now I need to start achieving my ambitions for me.


----------



## Ynot

My new license arrived today. My application for an LLC is being processed and I have submitted my application for E&O insurance. Things are progressing slowly towards the reopening of my business. It won't happen for another three weeks. But it is moving.
I went out and bought a few accessories for my bike - a tool kit, a water bottle/holder and a frame mounted pump. I still need to get a rack and saddle bags for longer trips.


----------



## Chuck71

You can't buy tomorrows with yesterday's money

now go out and make it happen


----------



## Ynot

They say you've got to hit bottom before you can recover. I've been bouncing along the bottom now for what feels like eternity. Along the way there have been several false bottoms. Along with several false recoveries. 
When I get to one of these false bottoms, I feel as though I've got it figured out. Then I go out and do things based on this new understanding. The effort usually causes me to loose my footing and sink deeper into the morass. Hence another false bottom.
I guess that is what life is all about? I guess this is what figuring it out really means?
I still do not know if I have truly hit bottom yet. 
I know that where ever we are in life is the result of all of our actions to this point in time. Ultimately we are each responsible for our lots in life. Good, bad or otherwise. I have been slowly coming to terms with the fact that I have not been happy with ME for quite sometime. Possibly, more probably, or conclusively all of my life.
I have seldom felt that I fit in. I have seldom felt true connection. I have seldom felt content and at peace. When I think of the times that I have, I keep coming back to fleetingness of those times. Even in the midst of the good times, there was always the nagging doubt (which in fact became reality) that it would not last. That is a flaw in me. That I need to correct once and for all if I am ever to be happy with myself.


----------



## Ynot

More random thoughts on a Sunday morning.
I have been keeping a journal over the past several weeks. I get up and write about what I dreamt about the night before, how I am feeling, what I intend to do, things I am grateful for etc etc. Having done this for a while I have come to realize that mostly what I write about are feelings. Feelings of sadness, despair, loss. grief, occasional hopefulness (see my previous post about false bottoms). 
In rereading my posts and entries I have come to realize that my feelings dominate my thoughts. Looking back over my life I realize that this has often if not always been the case. I even believe it was something that I recognized and actually attempted to control. 
My efforts were unhealthy and detrimental due to the fact that I simply hid or ignored my feelings to avoid dealing with them. Hence I withdrew when I was angry or hurt. I avoided confrontation. I avoided situations which might have made me uncomfortable, I either avoided situations which would cause me to feel certain things or I would withdraw until circumstances changed.
These were simply quick fixes designed to allow me to function another day. None of them actually corrected my problem. They merely allowed me to continue. And that is all that they were - quick fixes. Much like using bubble gum and paper clips to keep your car running one more day. Eventually the engine had to break down.
I never understood that feelings shouldn't dominate thoughts. Thoughts actually dominate feelings. Feelings are the creation of thoughts. So regardless of my efforts to hide them , the feelings created by my thoughts were still there. Festering, rotting and sucking the life out of me. 
My problem wasn't the feelings I was having (and still do) but the thoughts that created them. I always considered myself a rational person. Some of that was to counterbalance my claim that I am not an emotional person. But the claim of rational thought was just a veneer to cover the reality that I have been dominated by my emotions. I just hid behind the mask of reason to cover my negative emotions (I am not good enough, I am not wanted, I am not desired, I have no value etc etc). In the short term it was easier for me to remain stoic than it was for me to face myself.
I realize that I must face my self. I must correct the irrational thought processes that I have allowed to develop and become entrenched as patterns. 
I have been waiting for my epiphany. Thinking that some day the light would come on and everything would make sense. I imagined myself feeling a great burden being lifted and feeling happy again. But perhaps this is my epiphany?


----------



## Ynot

More thoughts on my "epiphany"
I have been told to be careful what you ask for because you may not like the answer. In many ways I do not like the answer to my question. It is painful to face the reality that you have been your own worse enemy for most of your life.
I had always believed (and still do) that if you can imagine it, it can become reality. Of course I never stopped to consider that that works both ways. You can imagine success or you can imagine failure. Whichever you do that will come true. 
I imagined myself a failure because I had to file bankruptcy and I became one. At least in my mind which is where it really matters. It polluted every aspect of my being and sucked the joy out of my life. I was a failure, my business was a failure, my life was a failure. I had no hope and no future. I believed THAT! It is why my marriage failed.
Rather than question this belief I accepted it as true. Even though I also believe that we should question EVERYTHING. I never stopped to consider that the industry I work in was destroyed in the great recession. I never stopped to consider that in the aftermath my business came back stronger than ever. I simply felt like a failure. Instead of learning from the failure I punished myself for it.
I became what imagined because I did not apply reason to my situation. I allowed my emptions to control me, rather than me control my emotions. 
That is the answer I have found. I do not like this answer, but I know that I must accept it and apply reason if I am to move forward. I have the opportunity to fix the engine driving my life. I do not want to invest the time and effort after being able to keep it running on a shoestring of bubble gum and paper ciips for years. In the short term I will suffer. But the long term will be better. I want to ride this repair out til the end of my days.


----------



## Ynot

As my epiphany continues to sink into the depths of my mind I am realizing that most of my life has been lived in a fog of regrets and worry. This is even more true of my recent past, both before and after my divorce. It is in many ways what caused my divorce and it is what has kept me from resolution (whatever form that ultimately ends up being)
I feel like Rumplestiltsken. I have awoken after decades of being asleep to find the world has changed. I now need to sort thru those changes as I move forward.


----------



## Chuck71

Most people never "wake up" you did / have

Hindsight is always 20 / 20

If I could go back 20 years but know then what I know now

LOL who wouldn't? It's called being "human"

You are flawed, I am flawed, every human ever born has been

Well there was one long haired dude.... ok I'll stop there


----------



## SamuraiJack

This is the part in the move where the hero, who usually walks away, pauses with his left heel showing...and turns around...

Very exciting to watch!

Careful with that Wisdom, Ynot! It's addictive and once you have tasted of it, like the Apple, you can never go back.

But once you have your first bite...who would want to? 

Congratulations!
Personally I love the taste of apples.


----------



## Ynot

SamuraiJack said:


> This is the part in the move where the hero, who usually walks away, pauses with his left heel showing...and turns around...
> 
> Very exciting to watch!
> 
> Careful with that Wisdom, Ynot! It's addictive and once you have tasted of it, like the Apple, you can never go back.
> 
> But once you have your first bite...who would want to?
> 
> Congratulations!
> Personally I love the taste of apples.


I keep reminding myself that at the center of every moment is ME!


----------



## Ynot

On another front - I found out that my current employer will be adding me to their fee panel as an independent contractor. This is great news for me, as they were my biggest client prior to my divorce. They accounted for between 30% to 40% of my business every year.
I really hope that I get really busy and make a lot of money and I can start to dig myself out of the hole I have placed myself into and start rocketing forward.
While I am not buried in debt. I do still have some medical bills that I need to pay off as well as a few smaller bills and my car. I still have most of the money I got from the sale of my house as a cushion. But I want to start really putting some money back and getting ahead.
Short term plans include a kayak and a motorcycle for myself. Longer term plans include a vacation this fall, and eventually another house.


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> On another front - I found out that my current employer will be adding me to their fee panel as an independent contractor. This is great news for me, as they were my biggest client prior to my divorce. They accounted for between 30% to 40% of my business every year.
> I really hope that I get really busy and make a lot of money and I can start to dig myself out of the hole I have placed myself into and start rocketing forward.
> While I am not buried in debt. I do still have some medical bills that I need to pay off as well as a few smaller bills and my car. I still have most of the money I got from the sale of my house as a cushion. But I want to start really putting some money back and getting ahead.
> Short term plans include a kayak and a motorcycle for myself. Longer term plans include a vacation this fall, and eventually another house.




You rose from the dead brother..... keep on rising from the ashes


----------



## Ynot

Last day in the beige cage was yesterday! I turned in all my equipment and have started quoting jobs. I plan on spending the next couple of weeks cultivating clients and completing my set up. 

The last few weeks went well enough at work. I had a few people come over to say good luck. And a few seek some advice on making a move themselves. I just know that I am looking forward to regaining control of my time, my income and my life. 

On some other fronts:
As the weather has improved I have started biking out doors. I road 28+miles two weeks ago and another 30+miles last week. In between the longer rides I have taken several shorter 10 miles rides as well. I really don't think my les have ever been stronger.

I have also signed up for the basic riders course for motor cyclists. Our state BMV offers a 4 hour class in safety along with two 8 hour days of riding. They supply the bike and helmet. That happens in two weeks. In the mean time I have to take a written test to get a trainers permit. Once I complete the class I can get the MC endorsement on my DL and I can go get a bike. Thinking about a 450 to start and moving up next year after I get more comfortable. I already have a line on a couple.

Met a woman at a Meetup outing. She came as a guest of another female member. I asked the member for her number and gave her a call. We have gone out twice and had a blast both times. We are going out tonight again. Tonight we are going to see a band with some of her girl friends and their boy friends. Don't know where it will go, just taking it a day at a time, but so far so good. 

It has taken a while but things are improving. Life is looking better. I am trying not to over think. Sometimes I wonder if things are better as a matter of perspective since I was so down, or if they are really better. In the end I guess all that matters is that things are better!


----------



## thummper

Hey, Ynot, ever hear from your Ex? How is she doing on her own?


----------



## Ynot

thummper said:


> Hey, Ynot, ever hear from your Ex? How is she doing on her own?


Last contact was over 6 weeks ago. She needed copies of our tax returns for the past 2 years. After a week of beating myself up I just sent them to her. I have no idea whether she got them or what she did with them.

My kids don't bring her up in conversation, so I have no idea what she is doing or what she is up to. The last I heard was she was being distant from the kids as well. Not sure what is going on, nor do I really care. 

She gave me the gift of freedom and I am going to take full advantage of it for myself. Including but not limited to fully enjoying self employment, getting my self a motor cycle which is something I have always wanted but never had and moving forward another house that I can do to what I want to do to it - playing around with passive and active solar lighting and heating and refinishing the house to custom quality.

Life is too short. Make everyday your own. In my past I thought I understood the idea. But my understanding was limited by my circumstances. I assumed it meant to make the best of what you had. Well now I get to make the best of anything I want and I intend to do just that.


----------



## Chuck71

That job in cubical he!! was not helping you. I've had those jobs.

I started dreading Monday the moment I woke up on Sunday. Not healthy.

After a D or break up.... if you're the one who remembers the cherished times

and think of all the things you could have done or done more of

it's hard at first. When you start to recall all of the bad times and when 

the other showed their "true colors" it marks a time of growth and moving forward.

Yes both parties screwed up, everyone does, but when all the unconditional love

is expressed for years yet after DDay there is only one fighting

you have to wonder about the sincerity of the one who walked.


----------



## JWTBL

Ynot,
I have enjoyed reading your posts, and it seems to me your ex was foolish for wanting out. You are physically active, have obvious job skills, are self reflective(which I see as a good thing, but unfortunately is rare) and are open to a new relationship, and haven't given up on women.
I was wondering, after reading about your description of trying to be stoic (which is what I do)- are you of Scandinavian ancestry by any chance? Just curious, because I think our heritage comes into play often in our personality traits, and we should try not to beat ourselves up about them. Good luck to you!


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> That job in cubical he!! was not helping you. I've had those jobs.
> 
> I started dreading Monday the moment I woke up on Sunday. Not healthy.
> 
> After a D or break up.... if you're the one who remembers the cherished times
> 
> and think of all the things you could have done or done more of
> 
> it's hard at first. When you start to recall all of the bad times and when
> 
> the other showed their "true colors" it marks a time of growth and moving forward.
> 
> Yes both parties screwed up, everyone does, but when all the unconditional love
> 
> is expressed for years yet after DDay there is only one fighting
> 
> you have to wonder about the sincerity of the one who walked.


You know what though? The thing of it is I really don't doubt her sincerity. Looking back on it there were some very obvious signs of her making an effort - to the extent she knew how. The problem was she was making an effort on one level when the issues ran much deeper than I think she was capable of understanding. I certainly did not understand that at the time. I can't speak for her, but in my hindsight tells me she didn't either.

My hindsight can't and won't change the past. My understanding has only come about through a lot of introspection and truly plumbing the depths of my soul looking for answers and reasons. Whether or not she ever recognizes it is a question that only she will be able to answer. I do doubt that she possesses the depth or breadth of intelligence to figure it out. I am not saying she is stupid, just that that type of thinking isn't hardwired into her programming.

In the meantime, I just want peace. Peace within and without. The inner peace is arriving, the outer peace is as well.


----------



## Ynot

JWTBL said:


> Ynot,
> I have enjoyed reading your posts, and it seems to me your ex was foolish for wanting out. You are physically active, have obvious job skills, are self reflective(which I see as a good thing, but unfortunately is rare) and are open to a new relationship, and haven't given up on women.
> I was wondering, after reading about your description of trying to be stoic (which is what I do)- are you of Scandinavian ancestry by any chance? Just curious, because I think our heritage comes into play often in our personality traits, and we should try not to beat ourselves up about them. Good luck to you!


JWTBL, thank you for the kind words. 

I am German-Slovak. But I understand what you mean about Scandinavians. I think as a whole they are an intelligent people. After an earlier history of conquest they have become amongst the most peace loving peoples on earth. Visiting Norway and Sweden are on my list.


----------



## Regretf

I have enjoyed Reading your thread Ynot and admire how far you have come in your journeyl. I hope one day to be were you are in terms of my own peace and being at ease with myself after D.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> Thinking about a 450 to start and moving up next year after I get more comfortable. I already have a line on a couple.


I reccomend two ways of going about this. 

Go bigger quicker...IE go with a 650 or 750...it's amazing how quickly you get used to them at this size.

The other is to rent from the dealership. Tell them you want to train up for a big bike and could use a few short term rentals.

So nice to see you doing better!


----------



## Chuck71

K1200 yeah I'm a speed ho

wish me luck..... 150 mph, rush


----------



## Ynot

I received my first assignment today! Totally pumped! I spent the week lazily sending out vendor packages and reaching out to old clients. I only need to do about 10 a month to make as much as I was making in the cubicle. Told myself that after my first $5000 in fees I would buy a kayak and after my first $10,000 in fees - a motorcycle. Need to book a lot of business between now and fall if I am going to take a trip to the southwest! Want to visit the Grand Canyon for sure and take a helicopter ride thru it. Looking for some other cool places there and to and from! Suggestions are welcome.


----------



## Ynot

Two more orders yesterday! Things are looking brighter each day. I got added to another fee panel for an old client yesterday. All three of my direct clients are now on board. Now I need to start expanding the list. After that I start paring it down to just the particular clients I want to work with (full fees, no BS, pay quick). I don't regret quitting cubicle work at all.

On another front, I realize that I have been dating the same woman now for over a month now. We met in a group social outing. We talked then and I felt a connection but that was as far as it went. About a week later I contacted her friend for contact info. Turns out the feeling was mutual. We went out later that week. Twice the following two weeks. We watched the game together last night and we have plans to spend time together today since we both can take the day off (she is self employed too). We have plans to go out on Thursday and Friday as well. Life is sprouting again from the ashes of my circumstances.

This new relationship has allowed me to see so much of what was missing in my past life. Things I had taken for granted or simply forgot. I have watched 10X more basketball games with her in the past month than in 25 years with my ex. There are many more. I try not to compare her to my ex, but the contrast is so stark that I can hardly help myself. Rather than see it as comparison between her and my ex, I look at it as a comparison between the old me and the new me, what I had vs what is possible. And I like the results!

Things are going well for me at the moment. I try not to overanalyze things. But still I wonder if good things are happening because I am feeling better or if I am feeling better because good things are happening. My mind is telling me it is the former and not the latter. Both of the circumstances above were the result of conscious decisions that I made and actions that I took. 

Regardless of which it is, the fact that I can think about things on this level is a sign of growth on my part. In the past I was not really aware of how much I allowed circumstance to dictate my moods as opposed to using my moods to dictate my circumstances. Wherever my path may lead me, I know I will learn from this moment and grow so the next will become better still. In many ways my divorce is becoming a gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Chuck71

And you thought your world had ended...... :smthumbup:

Date...... just don't get too serious too quick

I have been seeing one gal for close to three months

but we have no commitment, no "are we going together" or what ever the

term is used now. We get together 2-3 times a week and that's enough for me.

Is she potential? No she isn't. But at the moment we compliment each other.

Live for today and tomorrow will be a today.... just a future day.


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> And you thought your world had ended...... :smthumbup:
> 
> Date...... just don't get too serious too quick
> 
> I have been seeing one gal for close to three months
> 
> but we have no commitment, no "are we going together" or what ever the
> 
> term is used now. We get together 2-3 times a week and that's enough for me.
> 
> Is she potential? No she isn't. But at the moment we compliment each other.
> 
> Live for today and tomorrow will be a today.... just a future day.


Actually we had "the talk" last night during the game. We both have the same idea that to plan for a LTR is a bad thing since it comes with expectations. We came to the decision that it is best to just roll with it, taking it a day at a time. Eventually we will see where it takes us. In a month, six months or a year or two from now, we may look back separately and say "that was a nice time" or we may look back together and say "wow, I guess we are in a LTR". In the meantime there are many new todays to be lived.


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## Chuck71

Sounds to me like you just graduated. When you feel a bit down.... re-read this entire thread


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## Ynot

Another order yesterday. Came across with unreasonable fee and turn time. Countered offer at higher fee and extended turn time and was accepted. I have already nearly recouped my initial investment!
The latest order was back in my old territory, so after I see the property and comparables, I am golfing with some old friends. That is just the way I intended my life to be from here on out
Been researching my first assignment this morning. It feels so good to know that I am working for myself again! I know I can produce quality and that is what I am going to do! 
OTOH yesterday evening I had a very slight set back. For some reason I got to thinking about my past life. I started to feel a little upset and depressed but I was able to pull right back out of it just as quickly. I simply started listing all of the things I am grateful for now - like freedom and control. 
Just feeling pumped right now! I am feeling back in control of my life. Life is going good!

PS I was just reading my prior post and noted that I erred in my post. I wrote "In the past I was not really aware of how much I allowed circumstance to dictate my moods as opposed to *using* my moods to dictate my circumstances" what I meant to say was "*CONTROLLING* my moods to dictate my circumstances"


----------



## Ynot

Just finished delivering my first report in my new incarnation. Damn it feels good to be back in control of my life. Over the week end I saw a guy I used to work with in the cube. I pulled up beside him and his wife at a light. I rolled down my window to say Hi!. I was making conversation and asked if they were still working every weekend and his wife said "Go ahead, rub it in!" Then today I was talking to one my former co-workers and he informed me that they expect them all to work this weekend as well. Sure glad I got the hell out of dodge when I did!

This one took a little longer than I had hoped. But I had to relearn the process all over again. The next couple should be much easier.

Yesterday I did another inspection. It was back in my old territory. I left the house around 8AM. Stopped for a coffee. Had a leisurely drive across the rural country side. Finished up around 11:30. Met my buddies at the golf course. Played 18 holes. Finished up around 5. Had a couple of beers and had another pleasant drive back home. Like I said, "Damn it is good to be back in charge of my life again!"


----------



## Ynot

Last night was the class room section of my beginners motor cycle class. This week end is the riding portion. Looking forward to it. 

Tonight dinner with my daughter - BBQ! Tomorrow, I ride than spending the evening with the woman I have been dating for the past months and a half. Sunday, I ride again, then going to a charity concert with five bands playing. I have seen at least two of the bands before and they were really good. Monday, my brother is coming down and we are going to see a baseball game. Then on Tuesday a round of golf. 

Up to 7 orders so far this month. Only need 3 more to make my month (actually only need 2 more since I upped the fees on 3 of the orders). Slowly getting into my one a day routine - 1 order, 1 inspection, 1 report and 1 check and I am a happy man!

Later in May I am going to see the Rolling Stones! and perhaps Rush in June.

Spring has sprung and so has my new life!


----------



## Chuck71

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33jsQcS_hmI


----------



## Ynot

Well I officially qualify for a motor cycle license now. I passed the basic riders course so I am all good to go! Overall a very nice weekend. Two days of motor cycle training squeezed in between a couple of bar-b-cues and a nice concert with three very good bands. Topped the weekend off with a couple of buckets of peel and eat shrimp crusted with old bay seasoning with a piece of triple chocolate cake for desert with my lady.
I also won an auction for four rounds of golf at a local Pete Dye designed private golf club! Can't wait to play the course.


----------



## Chuck71

What ever happened to the Ynot I knew back in September? :smthumbup:


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> What ever happened to the Ynot I knew back in September? :smthumbup:


Somewhere in my rear view mirror broke down by the side of the road!


----------



## Ynot

Two orders yesterday put me over the top with a week to go! Things are working out just as I had planned. I am getting extra fees for jobs back in my old territory and I am being able to schedule them at MY convenience. For instance, next week I am subbing in my old golf league. So I scheduled an appointment over that way for the same day. Do my inspection, shoot my photos, play a round of golf, dinner and beers with old friends, spend the night at my buddy's place and on the road the next morning (hopefully to ride a bike trail on the way back - depends on the weather).
Tonight sushi and a movie with my lady friend and tomorrow hot yoga and breakfast. She has plans with her HS girl friends so then I am off to check out a bike I might be interested in buying. After that I am going to visit my buddy for a steak dinner and a buzz (at his place). 
Monday I have another appointment but I am having lunch with a former colleague from the cube first.
Tuesday a professional organization meeting in the evening.
Earlier this week my brother came to town and we saw a Triple A baseball game (Columbus Clippers). Then we went out to an old bar and stayed up until 4am shooting the sh!t and played golf the next day (because I can do whatever I want with my time now that I answer to NO ONE but myself!)
Worked on Wednesday followed by dinner and a Game of Thrones mini marathon with my lady.
Worked yesterday and caught an NBA playoff game followed by a movie last night.
This morning, I did an exterior inspection and I am going to spend the next couple of hours writing the report. Easy money!
Things are starting to line up very nicely.:smthumbup:


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot.... please tell us how much you miss your former cubical he!! job :rofl:


----------



## Ynot

Well first full month of business comes to a close. Total - 14 orders! 4 over my requirement. Bonus - 4 of the orders are in my old territory - I name the fee and the turn around time! So far I have been getting $100 to $150 more per assignment, I can schedule them a week out. Next week I am subbing in my old golf league and already have my trip paid for via an appointment nearby earlier in the day.

Tomorrow a trip to mega dealer to shop for a motor cycle! Followed up by a bicycle ride and then an evening of shooting pool. Then on Sunday, a short road trip with my lady to a nearby park for some horse back riding and hiking.

Tonight I think I am just going to chill. Go out have a few beers and then watch some tube.

Yesterday, was exactly like I planned - left the house about 9:30 for a leisurely cross country drive, jamming all the way! An inspection, shoot some comp photos on the way to and from. Lunch, followed by a nap and then a round of golf. After golf a couple of beers and dinner with some friends and home by 11:00PM. It was a long day, but no longer than any other.

Earlier in the week I had lunch with a former co-worker from the cube. Apparently the corporate overlords have decided that they should make an effort at paying for the services they receive. So they instituted a $25 per point bonus plan. Anything 10% over your goal they will pay you an additional $25/point. So after getting 5 for free they will start paying. IOW if you are willing to work an additional full work week plus you can earn the equivalent of another weeks pay. Not time and a half, just your regular pay. Unbelievably some of the guys are working 18 hours a day 7 days a week to make an extra $1000 (before taxes) since it is nearly impossible to keep your focus long enough to actually do enough to earn a full weeks pay. So glad I am out of there!


----------



## SamuraiJack

Strut it Ynot!, strut it like a Boss!


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Good job my man on taking control of your life again! When people read your thread, it will show them it is possible to turn your life around. When one path ends, you create another.


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## Chuck71

Thank you Ynot..... you just made my post #133 ring true! You hung in there, had a few

backsets but remained steadfast. The post? ......

Every story has a backstory. You are writing

your backstories now. Before you know it, you will be writing a story.

Funny thing is...you don't even know you're writing the story until you get 

to around Chapter 3.


----------



## Ynot

Another sign of recovery. Today is Mother's Day. I cannot help but to think of the mother of my children. I truly wish her no ill will on this day or any other for that matter. But at the same time I feel no need to reach out to her. She was a good mother. In fact, that may be the only thing that kept our marriage together as long as it lasted. While she may have acted selfishly and cowardly towards the end. I do know that she had "her" children in mind throughout the marriage. She waited until after they were thru with school and out of the house to walk away. If there was anything good that could be taken from the end of our marriage, it was that at least she put our children ahead of her own self interests.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> Another sign of recovery. Today is Mother's Day. I cannot help but to think of the mother of my children. I truly wish her no ill will on this day or any other for that matter. But at the same time I feel no need to reach out to her. She was a good mother. In fact, that may be the only thing that kept our marriage together as long as it lasted. While she may have acted selfishly and cowardly towards the end. I do know that she had "her" children in mind throughout the marriage. She waited until after they were thru with school and out of the house to walk away. If there was anything good that could be taken from the end of our marriage, it was that at least she put our children ahead of her own self interests.


This is so eeerily similar to mine.

Mine didnt wait but continually hoisted the flag that she was "teaching the girls to reach out for happiness".

I know my love for my kids kept things going longer than usual. Truth be told she was a pretty mediocre mom but she kept the kids supplied every way she knew how.

Usually she reaches out on card holidays like this. 
This year was blissfully absent of any silliness.


----------



## Ynot

SamuraiJack said:


> This is so eeerily similar to mine.
> 
> Mine didnt wait but continually hoisted the flag that she was "teaching the girls to reach out for happiness".
> 
> I know my love for my kids kept things going longer than usual. Truth be told she was a pretty mediocre mom but she kept the kids supplied every way she knew how.
> 
> Usually she reaches out on card holidays like this.
> This year was blissfully absent of any silliness.


Mine made sure both of her kids were well funded (by me of course). While I struggled post bankruptcy to make ends meet and pay $1000 a month in tuition, my daughter still ran up close to $30,000 in student loan debt. In the mean time dear old mom was booking cruises and vacations with her "girlies" while making $50+ a year and didn't contribute a dime. Supposedly she was saving for our daughters wedding and funding our retirement. In the end she spent all of the money she had supposedly been saving. 
She had some fantasy of celebrating Christmas together as a family (at her place of course). I half expected her to suggest we go shopping together for the kids (so I could pay)
My daughter's birthday was last week. She couldn't even be bothered to make the trip to see her. Instead she met her half way.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> Mine made sure both of her kids were well funded (by me of course). While I struggled post bankruptcy to make ends meet and pay $1000 a month in tuition, my daughter still ran up close to $30,000 in student loan debt. In the mean time dear old mom was booking cruises and vacations with her "girlies" while making $50+ a year and didn't contribute a dime. Supposedly she was saving for our daughters wedding and funding our retirement. In the end she spent all of the money she had supposedly been saving.
> She had some fantasy of celebrating Christmas together as a family (at her place of course). I half expected her to suggest we go shopping together for the kids (so I could pay)
> My daughter's birthday was last week. She couldn't even be bothered to make the trip to see her. Instead she met her half way.


okay now your ex has mine beat. Mine split everything down the middle and we each went our seperate ways. Our funds were very similar so it made sense. So far...she has been okay with money although she tends to be very "entitled" if she thinks I have more resources than she does.

Curiously my ex also had this weird fantasy about us being able to spend holidays together as a "seperate but complete family". I wasnt having any of it and suggested that 
_"the person who gets to carve the Roast Beast would be the last person who phucked the owner of the house we were celebrating at."_

Not really certain why that didnt go over very well. 
Sorry I just feel too strongly about my self to willingly shake hands with the guy who is shagging my ex. I would most likely have a few drinks and then drive a corscrew through his trachea. "oh It's okay sweety...He'll get over it. Thats what you told me I had to do..right?"

I joke because Im pretty certain if he has been with her for any length of time, it would be a welcome relief. 

If a couple can have dinner together without stuff bubbling to the surface they are either TOTALLY cluess or they were never really in love to begin with.


----------



## Ynot

SamuraiJack said:


> okay now your ex has mine beat. Mine split everything down the middle and we each went our seperate ways. Our funds were very similar so it made sense. So far...she has been okay with money although she tends to be very "entitled" if she thinks I have more resources than she does.
> 
> 
> 
> If a couple can have dinner together without stuff bubbling to the surface they are either TOTALLY cluess or they were never really in love to begin with.


We split everything I had invested in right down the middle. The equity in the house ($20,000) and the little money I had saved (4000). The only real emotional reaction I got out of her through the whole process was when I suggested we include the equity in her paid in full 2014 Subaru ($20,000)and the money in her 401k ($12,000) in the equation distributing the assets. She went ballistic and warned me that there would be NOTHING! between us if I tried to screw her out of her share of the house. She screamed that she was leaving with NOTHING! and wouldn't have enough to live on. Stupid dumbphvck me! I actually believed we could reconcile. So I relented as I didn't want to be responsible for my poor victimized ex wife to be living on the street. I thought cooperating would make reconciliation more possible. Even after I had been told it wasn't going to happen! Later on I found out she had spent my daughter's wedding fund. My daughter asked if I was going to help. I had to tell her we had planned on it, but dear old mom had pissed away the money so at this point I wasn't in any shape to help. Live and learn.


----------



## Chuck71

Pop always told me.... in a tight fix, the more the female goes ballistic, the more reason

to challenge her. XW threatened to go after the built up equity in one rental apartment and the other

which was paid for but 80% was accumulated during M. She even wanted to scare me by

saying she could go after the house. "Do what you feel is necessary but I will say, be sure you can

handle the afterbirth." XW.... "You have something planned don't you?"

My reply..... "Fvck with me and you will find out."

She went after nothing.


----------



## SamuraiJack

I found out my ex was watching one of my forums because I was getting support from some guys there. She was threatening shop tools and stuff, wanted to auction all the stuff in the garage.

I finally posted a "venting" note telling the guys I felt like taking her to court for my kids and financing it with her jewelry.

All items were off the list after that.

You are right. Sometimes you have to hit them with both barrels.

Ynot, sounds like your ex kept dangling the hope of R in front of you too. Mine was always going back and forth on things and the deciding factor was always something I had recently done.

Said something she took wrong...
Said something wrong...
Confronted her on behaviors...
Pointing out inequities in the settlement...

I honestly think she was dangling that in front of me to keep me docile until she could milk me for whatever she thought she could. Lucky for me, she started feeling guilty and then really "just wanted to get it over with"...I'm guessing the mystery man. 

Towards the end it was really frustrating to keep having it hinted at then taken away after I started getting hope. She must have done it upwards of 20 times.


----------



## Ynot

I definitely agree with both of you (SJ and C71) in retrospect I should have gone for the jugular after she ripped my heart out. It would not have changed the situation vis-à-vis the divorce. I would have had more money in my bank account BUT I would also have to live with my children thinking that I caused their poor old mom to live on the street or suffer somehow. So who knows if it was worth it or not. I know that she has cried to them about other things so I am sure she would have twisted that situation to her benefit as well. 

However I am trying to put the past behind me and move forward now. I cannot change what has happened and want to put it behind me.

I could sit here and vent for days but nothing will have changed. I really want to get to a place of forgiveness, even for the lies and manipulation at the end. It simply isn't good for me to dwell on it.

It was on mind the past few days because of Mothers Day and yesterday was six months from final decree. But today I just want to get on with my life.

I have a lot of good things going right now. I restarted my business and so far so good. I am healthy. I have enough money to live on. I am recreating a social network in the new city I live in. I get to see my daughter at least once a week. I am planning a trip with my son. I have become closer to my children and their fiancees.

And, I have been dating a woman for almost two months. She respects me. She compliments me. She wants to spend time with me and misses me when we are apart. We share many things in common. I don't know where it will go, but for the time being it is the polar opposite of what I had.

Most of this would not have been possible or probable had my world not been blown to smithereens. So, I am just going to keep taking it a day at a time and see where my journey leads me to.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> And, I have been dating a woman for almost two months. She respects me. She compliments me. She wants to spend time with me and misses me when we are apart. We share many things in common. I don't know where it will go, but for the time being it is the polar opposite of what I had.


Doesn’t this just take your mind and turn it inside and out?!

When I first started dating, I thought I was on a lucky streak because, with very few exceptions, EVERY woman out there was better than my wife.
I figured something was really in the stars for me until it dawned on me that the reason every one of them treated me better than my wife was because every one of them WAS better than my wife.
It really opened my eyes to how used I had gotten to being taken for granted.

…and that is how the parade of women started at my house. 

(Queue the Parade Fanfare!!!!)


----------



## Ynot

SamuraiJack said:


> Doesn’t this just take your mind and turn it inside and out?!
> 
> When I first started dating, I thought I was on a lucky streak because, with very few exceptions, EVERY woman out there was better than my wife.
> I figured something was really in the stars for me until it dawned on me that the reason every one of them treated me better than my wife was because every one of them WAS better than my wife.
> It really opened my eyes to how used I had gotten to being taken for granted.
> 
> …and that is how the parade of women started at my house.
> 
> (Queue the Parade Fanfare!!!!)


I have discussed this very thing with the friends who have been there for me through it all at length. 
They all point out that these things (the way this new woman treats me) are just more evidence of the total mind trip my ex had run through over the past 20+ years. I agree.
There are other things as well. The new woman in my life enjoys sex. She enjoys pleasing me and is willing to allow me to please her. She enjoys different activities and is very uninhibited. These are also very different than what I had become accustomed to over the past two plus decades. 
At first I was confused, until I realized that this is really how it should be, and that what I had had was the way it should NOT be. I had to recalibrate my thinking and expand my mindset. I didn't have to fantasize or think about doing something different while doing the same thing. I could just enjoy actually experiencing it.
All of my wise counsels have advised me to enjoy myself and not think too much about it. If it works out, it works out. If it fizzles, it fizzles. But so far so good.
I have been honest with her and her with me. We have had many deep intimate discussions (which is also something very different than what I had had). We have discussed our insecurities and concerns about ourselves, each other and "us".
I enjoy her friends and their boyfriends (another thing I could not say about my past). We have spent time at their homes and out on the town with them. 
We have a long list of things we have talked about doing that we both look forward to - going fishing, going boating, canoeing, kayaking, drinking, partying, gardening, eating good food, traveling, eventually meeting each others families, etc.


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> I definitely agree with both of you (SJ and C71) in retrospect I should have gone for the jugular after she ripped my heart out. It would not have changed the situation vis-à-vis the divorce. I would have had more money in my bank account BUT I would also have to live with my children thinking that I caused their poor old mom to live on the street or suffer somehow. So who knows if it was worth it or not. I know that she has cried to them about other things so I am sure she would have twisted that situation to her benefit as well.
> 
> However I am trying to put the past behind me and move forward now. I cannot change what has happened and want to put it behind me.
> 
> I could sit here and vent for days but nothing will have changed. I really want to get to a place of forgiveness, even for the lies and manipulation at the end. It simply isn't good for me to dwell on it.
> 
> It was on mind the past few days because of Mothers Day and yesterday was six months from final decree. But today I just want to get on with my life.
> 
> I have a lot of good things going right now. I restarted my business and so far so good. I am healthy. I have enough money to live on. I am recreating a social network in the new city I live in. I get to see my daughter at least once a week. I am planning a trip with my son. I have become closer to my children and their fiancees.
> 
> And, I have been dating a woman for almost two months. She respects me. She compliments me. She wants to spend time with me and misses me when we are apart. We share many things in common. I don't know where it will go, but for the time being it is the polar opposite of what I had.
> 
> Most of this would not have been possible or probable had my world not been blown to smithereens. So, I am just going to keep taking it a day at a time and see where my journey leads me to.


I'm a bit different than most. Some people can just shut down after one mistake.

Then they flip flop more than a fish in a frying pan. I try to give the female every possible chance

to "come around." There's no set in stone moment I turn.... but once it happens, cold as ice.

I don't care what she says, what she does or what she "offers"... game is over


----------



## Ynot

Two steps forward, one step back?
Last night I was talking to my future DIL (C). The topic of my daughter's (A) wedding came up. Mention was made that my ex has "generously" offered to pay for A's wedding gown. I have already told A that I am not able to give her anything. I already paid the for the bulk of her education and since my ex decided to steal the money we had saved, there was nothing left for me to give her.
Anyways the whole discussion rattled me. The whole thing just pisses me off. I know I have lots of time, but the thought of being near my X just makes me want to puke. I really don't know if I can stomach being around someone who so causally betrayed me, my children and my family. 
Like I said I have lots of time. But I don't know.


----------



## Chuck71

Your D knows what your XW did. But I get it, it still bothers you.

You know you have to be there for her wedding. You are justifiably 

unsure how you will react to her. Remember how I told you to act

when you had to meet her in court.... same applies here. Show her

she did not phase you one damn bit. Also.... bring the gal you have

been seeing to the wedding.


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Your D knows what your XW did. But I get it, it still bothers you.
> 
> You know you have to be there for her wedding. You are justifiably
> 
> unsure how you will react to her. Remember how I told you to act
> 
> when you had to meet her in court.... same applies here. Show her
> 
> she did not phase you one damn bit. Also.... bring the gal you have
> 
> been seeing to the wedding.


I WILL be there for both my daughters and my sons weddings. I just hate that I allow myself to be rattled by something that is over a year out. By then I truly hope that it/she will not phase me in the least bit. I really do know I am better off. But damn, the wound is still so raw.


----------



## Chuck71

You're human, don't sweat it


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> You're human, don't sweat it


I guess I just posted about it, so that others could see that the journey is not a smooth trajectory but rather a herky jerky train ride full of fits and starts. Even after recovery starts.
In truth, my life is in many ways far better today than it was a year ago.
I didn't realize for many months, but the door is really open to me to explore the world. 
My future isn't realized as fast as I would like, sometimes memories encroach on my present and past decisions are still being dealt with. But overall, life is improving. I have choices, I have freedom. 
If I am guilty of one thing now, it is being too cautious, not grabbing enough of the gusto.


----------



## Ynot

Another chapter...
My recent relationship has hit a road block. We went out the other night with her brother and his girl friend. We all had too much to drink. We got pulled over. Her brother ended up getting charged with disorderly conduct for getting out of the car despite being ordered to stay in the car. His girl friend got a DUI. The girl I had been dating had her car impounded.
Apparently it all my fault because I didn't drive us back. This despite the fact that I was way over the limit myself and had no idea where I was at or how to get back.
While we were stopped K said "Y you are the most sober person here, you better step the f*ck up or I am going to kill you!". This is after the part where her brother gets the DC charges and his girl friend is being given the sobriety test. WTH was I supposed to do?
She told me not to bother to call her. She texted me that "curious why you didn't drive us home"
This kind of thinking is just inconceivable to me. I want no part of it.


----------



## Bob Davis

Ynot said:


> Another chapter...
> My recent relationship has hit a road block. ...
> This kind of thinking is just inconceivable to me. I want no part of it.


Wow! I think I would be bailing about now.


----------



## Ynot

Bob Davis said:


> Wow! I think I would be bailing about now.


Pretty much have bailed already.
When we first started going out, we went out to see a few bands. had a few drinks, danced and had fun. I tried to expand our encounters to more normal, everyday activities like dinner out, hiking, walks in the park etc. to no avail.
Ay first I thought it was just the day to day pattern of life that prevented much of it. She was working, I was working, family commitments etc.
Over time I began to see a pattern, where alcohol seemed involved in every activity. Some of it was me at first. We went on a picnic in the park. I brought a bottle of wine. However, after the picnic was over, she wanted to go to a bar.
Then I stopped involving alcohol. But when I went to pick her up she would have a drink waiting.
We were going to a concert last weekend. Earlier in the week we talked about not drinking at all that week and instead exercising. So Wednesday we did a yoga class together. After the class she was hungry. So we go get some dinner and she had to have a class of wine with dinner. Then a few beers. The next night we were invited out with some of her friends which turned into more partying. The night of the concert we were supposed to meet some friends for dinner. The place we ended up was a huge bar. 
Over time I began to see some red flags. Getting pulled over and seeing the juvenile behavior before, during and after blew up my alarm system. Aside from the text exchange I have not heard a word from her. 
I am sad. We seemed to share a lot of common interests, but apparently she is running from some demon and finding some solace in booze. Maybe this will be a wake up call for her, or perhaps it will just reinforce her fears. Who knows?


----------



## Bob Davis

It's possible that she'll be blaming you for that night, the arrests, etc, forever. She might even show up in your life again, via texting, etc, and try to rehash that all over again to try to make you feel bad, put you down, etc. Don't buy it! From your last reply I think you have a very good handle on this, don't let that go.


----------



## Ynot

Bob Davis said:


> It's possible that she'll be blaming you for that night, the arrests, etc, forever. She might even show up in your life again, via texting, etc, and try to rehash that all over again to try to make you feel bad, put you down, etc. Don't buy it! From your last reply I think you have a very good handle on this, don't let that go.


The drinking was definitely something that had been gnawing on my mind for some time. I talked to several of my close friends and brothers about it. I wasn't sure if maybe I was being to picky or judgemental.
I know that she and I had discussed the issue before. She would often tell me that she wasn't all about going out all the time either.
Yet any attempt I made to "normalize" our times together were either rebuffed, as when she was busy or tired, or negated when I would show up and she already a couple of drinks ready to go.
I have no intention of allowing anyone to make me feel guilty about something that I had no control over. That was one of the issues I had with the end of my marriage. For a while I took on all the blame. It took me months of inner turmoil and self reflection to realize that I wasn't responsible for how she had acted. Never again!


----------



## Chuck71

That gal is running from something.... that is a great deal of drinking. How old was she?

Your awareness of things was already letting you know.... her actions that night, solidified it


----------



## Ynot

While initially I categorized my recent adventures as ending in a road block. I truly feel it was just a bump in the road.
I know that sitting in the back seat of a police cruiser due to the juvenile behavior of others on a Monday night is NOT what I want out my life.
It was another learning experience.
Just a bump in the road.
It is kind of strange though, that I still feel my self experiencing some of the same feelings I had when my ex left - feelings of unfinished chapters, memories of joint dreams that are not to be lived out, things that remind me of our times together.
I admit it has set me back a little.
But I am now free to pursue my dreams without the need to make accomodations for anyone else's.
The whole thing has made me wonder if my feelings were based more on the extingencies of wanting to fill a void in my life
In some ways I feel my marriage had been based on this and my recent escapades has re-opened that sore in my mind.
I guess this is all part of the process - thinking, resolving, testing, failing and then having to go thru the whole process again. 
Eventually I hope I get it right.


----------



## Ynot

So it has been over a week since the "pull over". Since then I got one text the day after suggesting I should have been driving , so somehow she has decided it was my fault that her and her brother acted like high school amateurs. Not my problem!
Not really too bothered by that incident. But I have been thinking, actually rethinking how I got to this point at all.
I find myself wondering if this most recent event is some sort of mini repeat of my marriage. I wonder if this girl was acceptable because I was lonely and in order to not be lonely I made accommodations for things I was not too keen with.
Since the pull over I have followed thru on a previously planned visit to my son's house in NC. 
We went golfing, drove to VA rode 50+miles on a bike trail, canoed on the New River and played golf again today.
In the course of our activities we have talked about what has happened between his mother and I.
At one point he told me that both he and his sister have had the discussion that the person they see on FB is not the same person they knew as Mom for all those years.
Not that that matters one whit.
But still I find myself feeling guilty as if somehow all of this was somehow my fault.
I feel guilty that I am enjoying playing golf. My ex would buy me passes and arrange play dates for me to play golf because she decided that would make me happy.
I always felt like it was just an excuse for her to run off with her "girlies" for some retail therapy.
Then I think that the problem was much deeper than that. She just wouldn't or couldn't give me the support and friendship I desired. 
I don't know I am just getting sick of my inability to just resolve the whole matter and get on with my life.


----------



## Chuck71

Their actions were of their own volition. You never put a gun to their head to act that way

I am positive they acted this way, long before you came along. You have traveled miles..... very proud of you

Your kids are telling you the exact thing you thought previous. What better form of reinforcement 

can you get? I am an expert swimmer but I can not save a bone skinny female who is dead set on

drowning herself in the ocean.


----------



## Ynot

I guess I am just upset that I am having to revisit issues I thought I had resolved before. I guess it is part of the recovery?
I am pissed at myself. I KNOW in the end of all of this, I will resolve the matter to some acceptable conclusion. In fact in many ways I think I already have. It is just that the pain won't allow me to just accept it and let go.
I know I had placed her on a pedestal and loved her as much as I could humanly love another person. I guess 25 years of a shared life has a way of wrapping its tentacles around practically every thought, memory and belief in my head. 
In some ways it is like a weed - I can yank the part that is growing above ground out but the roots are still there and everytime it gets a chance the roots send out more growth.


----------



## Chuck71

You did what you thought was best.... you have no regrets Ynot

Her devolving was not your candle to burn. If she had issues.... she should have brought them up.

The issues they never brought up are never addressed being.... by the time they do bring them up

they are so re-written.... the entire core concept is lost.


----------



## Ynot

More random thoughts on a Sunday morning....
So I have been thinking about how unhappy I was towards the end of my marriage. My first reaction is to blame myself and wonder "why couldn't I have just been happy?"
This is based on the fact that there have been many time, some of them long and drawn out, where I have truly been depressed.
So the question is "did my depression cause my divorce?" since I have dealt with it throughout my life.
But then I think, I am not always depressed. There have been times in my life where I have been happy, active and engaged. During those times I have achieved great things - I got married, I had a daughter, I was successful at my corporate job I started a business. my business was successful, I raised my family, I was the best Dad a child could possibly want.
So what was the differences between my depressed periods and my happy periods?
Looking back, I can see that when I was depressed it was often times on the basis of things I could control but didn't. I was uncomfortable with my life because I felt I could do better but wasn't.
The happy times often occurred when I made the effort to effect the changes needed to make my life a better place.
So going back to my marriage, I was unhappy and depressed as the end approached. I felt trapped in my life. I had resigned myself to a life of quiet desperation. I was trapped by the geography of business, I was trapped by the fact that I owned property, which I assumed to be upside down on (more on that later). My choices going forward were limited by marriage, family and work. 
I felt purposeless, as though I only existed to pay bills, fund everyone else's life and no one cared about mine, myself included.
So did these feeling cause my wife to walk away? Or were these feelings a reaction to the fact that in many ways she had already walked away?
In many ways I know that my depression towards the end was caused by her lack of support for me. Support which I had previously enjoyed but had been withdrawn little by little over time.
She didn't want me to be self employed. Had I stayed in the corporate world, I KNOW we would have gotten divorced years ago, because I just couldn't do it. I needed control of my life. 
I had almost died and decided that life really was too short to spend the next 40 years under some one else's thumb. 
I started my own business so that I could control my time, my income, my life and be the best father I could possibly be. She wanted a paycheck - the first inkling that something was wrong.
I told myself that once I got up and going and the money started flowing (which it did) she would come around. She didn't - the second inkling.
I tried to get her involved in the business to help me grow it - she wouldn't/couldn't and in fact said "it was stupid! - the third inkling.
Despite her feelings she had no problems going along for the ride. We were living the American Dream - spend today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow because by the time tomorrow got here there would always be more money to keep it going.
Then when economy collapsed and the money stopped flowing, the bills came due. My income dropped, I had clients file bankruptcy on me. I blew thru my savings, I sold my stocks, I liquidated my 401K. I ended up filing bankruptcy. Through it all she made no real efforts to help. I sat down with her to show her where we were, what our choices were her response was "you do what you want, I don't want to know about it"
So at the absolute worst time in my life, the woman I had chosen to be the mother of my children, who I was going to spend the rest of my life with - didn't want to hear about it? - another deathblow.
Looking back, from that point, was where she really decided to unhitch her horse from the wagon of our marriage. 
At the very end of our marriage she told me that she could not support me then, because I "wouldn't get a job". Apparently ignorant of the fact that had I had a job at that time I probably would have lost that job and if I had looked for a job I probably would not have found one given that the economy collapsed and businesses, specifically banks were laying off tens of thousands of people every month.
There were other things that I was unhappy about. As she withdrew, she took with her the companionship that came with it. Whenever I tried to talk about it, I was told "I am doing the best that I can and if you don't like it, I am out of here!" Not exactly words to encourage any further discussion?
At another time, the topic of lack of sex came up. I was told "I don't even thing about it, I have too many other things going on!" Again not exactly words that any spouse would like to hear from their SO.
Looking back, I had every reason to be depressed. The end didn't happen because I was depressed. The depression came about as a result of my needs not being met. 
I know at some point I will really wrap my mind around this point and recognize that in her own short sighted and selfish way, that my ex really did give me a gift. 
I had made a commitment to love this woman for the rest of my life. The woman I had made that commitment to was not reciprocating and it made me unhappy. She released me from that commitment when she walked away. I am now free to pursue my happiness. I am no longer burdened by things I could control but didn't.
I had placed the commitment I had made above all other things in my life. I had placed my wife's and my family's happiness above my own.
I can control how much of my self I am willing to give. I can also control how much I am willing to accept in return.
In the end I had not controlled how much I was willing to accept. Instead I kept making accommodations. I allowed the commitment itself to take precedence over the desired outcome anticipated from the commitment.


----------



## Ynot

So to continue the line of thinking in my previous post....
Why was I willing to make accommodations? Basically I think it was to fill a void in my life so that I didn't have to deal with an issue I was facing myself. Namely I think didn't want to be lonely.

I grew up in a large family of 3 brothers and 4 sisters. I was the 6th of 8. I was the second oldest boy. In the scheme of things I was not really anybody special. More like a secondary fixture in the scheme of the family. All of my sisters were older than I. I was not the oldest boy. My older brother was 4 years older than I was. As one of the younger ones, we got whatever was left after the older ones picked first.

My mother got sick when I was in 6th grade. She died at the end of my 8th grade My Dad fell into the bottle. My older sisters where leaving the house to start their own lives. Looking back we all suffered in our own ways.. I really had very little family life after about the 6th grade. 

I felt abandoned and alone in world. I had no one to turn to. So what did I turn to? Drugs, running the streets, hanging out with losers. I knew I wanted better. But I had no idea what. So rather than run towards something, I ran away from where I was.

To this point in my life I have been defined but what I didn't want rather than by what I really want. I am still dealing with this issue today.

I know what I don't want, but what I need to do is find what I do want. 

I think that running away is what got me to the point I was at. Running away from facing my self is why I made accommodations and accepted things that did not make me happy. It was easier to be with others who were not necessarily best for me, than it was to find out what I really wanted/needed.

Some one was better than no one. 

In the course of my growing up, I never had the opportunity to develop ME. Instead I was forced to react to changing conditions and learn to accept rather than to pursue. It has ruled my life ever since.

Now I need to develop ME so that I am never alone again. This is the task I am faced with. I need to stop blaming the symptoms as the cause of my disease and start dealing with the cause to eliminate the symptoms.


----------



## Chuck71

Very insightful..... it is more common than most think, large family...

mother dies young, dad hits the bottle. Humans share a bond of familiarity.

Some of the guys you ran with, most likely came from similar backgrounds.

You were not given the support you were seeking from her. You were a

walking paycheck. Was she a SAHM? You were longing for something

you felt you should have.... that was the hammer. The nail was you corporate

job.... this would lead anyone to a depressed state. You were miserable

and you turned to the one person you felt would understand. That burned

you all the way to your soul. You eliminated the two weights on your 

shoulders. Your job is picking up but you are lonely. But wouldn't you 

rather just be lonely rather than still be M and having your soul destroyed?


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Very insightful..... it is more common than most think, large family...
> 
> mother dies young, dad hits the bottle. Humans share a bond of familiarity.
> 
> Some of the guys you ran with, most likely came from similar backgrounds.
> 
> You were not given the support you were seeking from her. You were a
> 
> walking paycheck. Was she a SAHM? You were longing for something
> 
> you felt you should have.... that was the hammer. The nail was you corporate
> 
> job.... this would lead anyone to a depressed state. You were miserable
> 
> and you turned to the one person you felt would understand. That burned
> 
> you all the way to your soul. You eliminated the two weights on your
> 
> shoulders. Your job is picking up but you are lonely. But wouldn't you
> 
> rather just be lonely rather than still be M and having your soul destroyed?


I can't disagree with you. I am just so angry that she just walked away. I fell in and out of love with her so may times over the course of 25 years. But I had made the commitment. She just decided to hell with it and walked out. In the process she destroyed my family (again!).
I understand that I have the opportunity to fix whatever was broken with me. To deal with the issues I had not previously dealt with. I guess I am upset that I hadn't before. My guess is that had I, I probably would never have married her in the first place.


----------



## Ynot

More evolution in the thought process....
I have been pondering the idea and process of forgiveness. I really do not want to live the rest of my life holding onto the anger and resentment. But my mind will simply not allow me to forget the 25 years of life I would need to forget in order to forgive her for what she did.
Then I began thinking about exactly what she did. She did the exact thing I would have done, had I been able to resolve the cunumdrum in my own head.
I was not happy the last few years of my marriage. It is easy to say it was because SHE did this or SHE did that. But the fact is that it was ME who was unhappy and it was ME who couldn't resolve this issue.
I had considered leaving the marriage, but I wasn't brought up that way. Divorce was not an option in my family. It was the exception not the rule and I did not want to choose that option. The option I had largely settled on was seeing it though to the end.
But it wasn't old age I was thinking of. Rather I had decided to just bide my time until I died. Which is no way to live your life.
I was trapped (mostly in my mind) by circumstances. I was in an unhappy marriage I couldn't end. I had children I didn't want to disappoint. The fact was, that even though I was unhappy, I still loved my wife. I simply could not desert someone I loved. It was not how I was raised.
I felt trapped by my job. I felt I had no purpose left on earth other than to pay bills until I died and then to hopefully provide enough that my wife could survive without me.
That was where my mind was. I felt hopeless and lost and trapped and doomed to live out my life in misery.
When she left my world fractured apart, but the stress fractures were already in place just waiting for the right circumstances to crumble apart. Her leaving provided the circumstances.
I was shattered.
I was shattered because I had not taken care of my own needs. I had no plan. I panicked, I freaked out. I lashed out. 
Now I am picking up the pieces. I am realizing that I cannot blame her for giving up on me, when I had already given up on me. I had already done the same thing to me that she did when she left.
I am coming to see the gift (largely unintended) she has given me. A decision I couldn't make, was made for me. Now I am being forced to resolve issues I had not been able to resolve. To decide what will be my purpose as I move into the next phase of my life.
So here I am today. Realizing that much of the anger I had directed towards her, was really anger I had at myself. 
I really do not want anger and resentment in my life. I need to forgive myself in order to forgive her.


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## Lostinthought61

so if i follow this thought pattern, she took the courageous approached and ended an unhappy marriage for both of you, so that both of you could find happiness in someone else or something else. I wonder at some level you resented her for pulling the lever instead of you..in essence if you were willing to live in misery and she should have too...thinking that you were taking the higher road, when in fact there was no road you were drowning. Instead of forgiving her, thank her, for being mature enough to pull the plug and let the water drain out of your unhappy marriage, your alive...your free to pursue what ever you define as happiness. send her flowers and tell her thank you for giving my life back.


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## Ynot

Xenote said:


> so if i follow this thought pattern, she took the courageous approached and ended an unhappy marriage for both of you, so that both of you could find happiness in someone else or something else. I wonder at some level you resented her for pulling the lever instead of you..in essence if you were willing to live in misery and she should have too...thinking that you were taking the higher road, when in fact there was no road you were drowning. Instead of forgiving her, thank her, for being mature enough to pull the plug and let the water drain out of your unhappy marriage, your alive...your free to pursue what ever you define as happiness. send her flowers and tell her thank you for giving my life back.


I may get there some day. I want to get there some day. I am not quite to that point yet. I am still working on the forgiveness part. First I need to forgive me, so that I can heal. I still feel obliterated. I had no plan for any of this. I am still reeling. The thoughts posted are my current thoughts. Perhaps the day will come when appreciation will be felt but not at the moment.
These thoughts are also in regards to the break up. The aftermath is still something I am dealing with.
I panicked and I begged her to talk to me about what was going on. I sold or gave away my entire life, She stood idly by and watched me do it. Then came along to ask for her share of what was left. That will always be on her.


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## Lostinthought61

i hope you get there one day....not for her sake for yours


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## Ynot

Xenote said:


> i hope you get there one day....not for her sake for yours


Me too. I know I will.


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## JWTBL

Wow, thanks for that last post, ynot. I absolutely agree- I certainly don't want to spend the rest of my life in bitterness or dwelling on trying to put the blame on others for the circumstances I'm in (namely, being alone). My marriage was as dead as a doornail, for many years, but we were both too scared or lazy or something to consider any alternatives. Him leaving me for another woman was certainly an eye opener! And you mentioned not knowing what you want, only knowing what you don't want. That is me to a tee. My life is so unexpectingly different now, just by me putting one foot in front of the other every day-what else can we do? This is just the way it is. 
But on the other hand, I have been taking care of putting my house on the market, totally on my own, with all that entails, packing and or selling or giving away 26 years worth of "stuff", all while not having a clue where I was going , just knowing that I could not spend another winter in this house(again, not knowing what I wanted, as much as knowing what I didn't want). Things are working out, I decided to buy a tiny place near where I live now, for cash, and if I want to move in 3 or 4 years I can do that. But all the decisions I am making, wrong or right, are my own now. And that is not a bad thing, especially, like you say, if we can forgive ourselves. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.


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## Ynot

Some times I think, in many ways, that I was unhappy because of all of the expectations of other people that I was trying to live up to. I remember thinking when my world exploded that I had just been filling a role for years and how that role had ended. I didn't then and in many ways still don't have a clue which way I will be going, much less how I am going to get there. That is the hardest part for me now. I feel as though I am just free falling through life.
At first I grasped and grabbed at anything I could, but now I am finding my self more reflective.


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## Ynot

I am still pondering forgiveness, anger, acceptance, and letting go.
At this point is not about letting go of the past as much as it is about letting go of my feelings about the past.
I realize that my marriage was/is over and so was/is the specific relationship that went with it. I have let go of any hopes and/or desires to try to repair or fix or amend or reconcile any of that. It is the past and the past cannot be changed.
But I still feel a void where that relationship existed within me, That void is affecting the relationships I have with those who existed within and around that relationship.
My relationship with my daughter has changed. My relationship with my son has changed. Both are adults. My son (actually my step son) went through this when his mother (my ex) and his real father went thru a divorce when he was young. My daughter never saw it coming either and now she is wary of the two people who were her rock for all of her life. She has seen each of us in a new light.
I have no contact with my ex, mostly by my own choice. When she refused to talk to me about our issues I rejected anything else she had to offer. So now there is just a void. A void in my life and a void in my family. 
This void is there. It is real. It affects me and my family. I am unable to ignore it. 
We had 25 years together. She was part of my life for 25 years. I can hardly have a thought without some memory of our time together creeping into my mind. I am not talking about remembering the times together on vacation or holidays. Although these do come up. I am talking about little things like how I view a situation or people. 
I find myself resisting my own thoughts in part because that would have been what she thought.
I realize I have adopted a black/white approach to her. But the reality is that I can not reject her without rejecting a large part of myself.
She did not cheat on me. The only betrayal came from ending the marriage, even though it was a thing that I had considered myself.
So, is it a matter of ego?


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## EnjoliWoman

Insightful. I think a lot of us go through a similar thought process. Although I was the one who left, for many years I smoked pot until I didn't have to think about how awful it was and I went through the motions. Oddly enough, my ex was on to me - he said I was not passionate about anything and that I was 'playing house'. He just didn't see he was the reason for my lack of passion and he will always be in denial about that - I think he has viewed our marriage the way he re-wrote it so much that he actually sees it as he rewrote it. 

So while leaving brought its own peace, it also brought its own turmoil. I was in a hurry to fill that void and I tried. I settled for having people in my life who weren't really suitable just to have them. But I came to a few conclusions. The first, was that I couldn't be bitter about men because I didn't want to allow my ex to control my feelings any more. I let him ruin my past; I wasn't going to let him ruin my chances at love and a happy future. The second was that sometimes family was friends and quality over quantity. My picker was a bit broken when it comes to friends and some of these are still on the fringes but I am much better with boundaries and knowing who is really there for ME. The third is that I'd rather be alone than unhappy and I'm really not lonely very often, even when I'm alone. I don't always have to distract myself with projects or plans or research, either, like I used to. I can let my thoughts wander while alone and there's nothing to confront that I can't handle. It feels good to have the cobwebs gone.

As to a void... I think I have come to think of it differently. It's a placeholder; a bookmark. There isn't a hole in my life, but there IS a place where I can push back and create a space for someone. Just like a garden doesn't have to have every inch filled to be beautiful, neither does a life. Sometimes the negative space is what offsets the most beautiful parts.


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## Pluto2

Beautiful Enjoli.

I love the reference to the garden. Even though my ex is out of my life, and I don't have to endure his ....crap, I still find portions of my life, and thoughts, require a little weed-pulling now and again.
@Ynot, I think you've grown more than you realize.


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## Ynot

The storm has abated somewhat. The clouds are clearing and their is a glimmer of the coming sunshine on the horizon. Today at least I am thinking of me and what I must do. I am here, where I am and nothing or nobody can change that. 
Priorities are slowly evolving.
As the ball of twine slowly gets untangled in my mind, I keep coming back to the issue of ME.
I need to focus on my business and get it revved up again. I have the time and need to make the best of it.
Increased business, means more time spent mentally being involved in things other than my situation.
Increased business means more income, which opens the doors to exploring more opportunities.
If I want a motorcycle I need to feel secure enough to spend the money. If I want to go hang gliding I need to feel secure enough to spend the money doing it. If I want to date every night of the week, I need to have the money to do it. If I want to buy a house, I need to have the money to do it.
I am realizing that none of the above need to be completed today. I have time. Time is my ally and I need to leverage that time to my advantage. 
I don't need to be paralyzed by choices I just need to prioritize them and deal with them in their proper order.
I realize that much of this is advice that I have been given and/or read somewhere along the way, but until now they were just words, empty platitudes, that I did not understand.
Could this be another false bottom? Perhaps, but just as my prior false bottoms as well as my recent false highs, it will still be a learning experience.
I have not resolved all of the issues in my mind. Far from it. But I do realize that I am growing in my understanding of my life, the world we live in and my place in it.


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## Chuck71

I make it a point to read two certain books once a year. Every time I 

read them I garnish something different. No matter what the 

reasons were, if your XW would just sit down and say, 'this is why I.....' 

Completely normal but you can't change the past. When I had my DDay

in November '12, WC (XW) brought up things from ten-fifteen years ago.

When your XW planned her exit, she did not leave immediately. She had to

blameshift, re-write history, and gaslight. Ynot was there a large gap between 

the kids going away to college and her emotional detachment? As I look back

on my 15 year deal, I like to remember the good times, there were plenty.

The one thing I miss most is the silent communication. We could look

at each other and know what the other was thinking. I never had anything near that

with the other three I seriously dated. By owning your POS tendencies (we all have

them), it is the first step in correcting them for your next chapter in life. Sometimes 

you hear of people who have been divorced three...four times and on their next

one. Do you think they addressed their issues in a healthy way after their first D?

This is your time to address these, correct them, work on your strengths. Do you

think if you met a female this summer who had "all her schit together" ... would she 

want to date the you five years ago? What about the new and improved Ynot?


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## Ynot

Chuck you are absolutely correct. I don't think a woman who has all of her schitt together would want to date me in my current state. In fact I don't think I would even bother to ask her out, as at the present I am some what intimidated by ANYONE who does. 
My ex started drifting when I filed bankruptcy and when my daughter left for college. The two event occurred nearly simultaneously with each other.
I know I am growing. I know I need to grow more, much more. I need to find some higher purpose (as opposed to external purpose) to guide me on my journey. The lack of purpose is one of the things that is really bothering me now. Viktor Frankl refers to it as a provisional existence. That is where I am at presently and I want to get on with living.


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## Ynot

So I 've decided to focus on my business for the short term. After all I have to feed myself and money allows greater number of choices than being poor does. 
I was sort of working with one foot in my new town and one in my old town. I have since decided to let go of my old territory and focus exclusively on my new area. 
I got an order on Thursday afternoon around 2PM, it was near my apartment so I called and scheduled it immediately. I saw it around 4 and by 6 had already submitted my report. Then I got another order on Friday. Small subdivision about ten minutes away. I called the borrower but can't get in until next Monday, but the report is already almost finished. Yesterday I get an order in the morning, call, schedule, inspect and report written and submitted. Today I get one in the morning, then I get slammed with a bunch of desk top stuff, that only takes about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to do. Then I got another order later on. Both the orders from today are scheduled for tomorrow. And both reports are almost finished except for my field notes. 
Bottom line is the work is much easier here than it was back in the old place. I could easily top 100-125k if I can keep getting orders like this. I should be able to live a nice life with that kind of income.
But at the same time, I am so damned lonely it hurts. I work alone. I don't see many people thru the course of the day. I don't want to hang out in bars. I workout and ride bikes, take walks and try to stay active but I can't seem to make any connections.


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## HeartbrokenW

*Re: Re: The Firt Day of the Rest of MY Life*



Ynot said:


> I am so damned lonely it hurts.


I know the feeling well. I work at an office, still have a teenager at home (although she's visiting her dad for the summer), and I take college courses (one class at a time). Yet I long for everything that goes with a significant other. Someone to share my day with, someone I can lean on rather than always having to be the strong one, someone that cares about me. Two and a half yrs later and I still miss married life. Two and a half years later and I'm still reading TAM while trying to fall asleep, trying to figure out what my purpose is.


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## Ynot

Hopefully this will not come across all garbled and unintelligible...
Thru the course of my journey I have analyzed, researched, reflected and reanalyzed (over and over) the who, what, where, why and how I came to this point in my life.
I keep coming across some very obvious and common themes that seem to run down every avenue of possibility I explore.
All of these themes center on the same thing - me, as an individual. 
At the essence of me as an individual lies my purpose in life.
Many people never truly stop and consider their true purpose or they may only get so far, stop at that point and settle there. 
Some may settle the question of purpose by accepting some religious belief, or living for their kids or SO, or family. But these are all external to the self and can be challenged or taken away by external events. 
Religion is a man made construct (there is a huge difference between religion and believing in God). As such it is subject to and often does change.
Children grow up, move away, die, become involved with others.
SO's, change, die, move on and/or divorce.
Anytime one of these external foci change, so to does your sense of purpose.
Throughout my life, I have tended to make externalities the focus of my life. the purpose of my life. As those external foci changed or were otherwise removed, my purpose changed with them.
None of this is to say that these external foci are unimportant, just that they are not the most important. They should be a corollary to your true purpose, but not your true purpose itself.
Over my life I have searched and struggled. I have been weak and grew weary of my struggle. I have come to places in my life where I have stopped to rest and rather than continue my struggle, stopped and accepted these lesser purposes as a substitute for a greater purpose. There are times, my marriage for instance, where these lesser purposes happen to coincide with the courses of our lives and to pursue such secondary purposes can lead to great happiness and contentment. But as I said, these are external foci, subject to the whim of external factors over which we have no control.
So the central theme of it all, is what is my purpose?
Through the course of my life I have had several smaller purposes, which I have pursued and been quite successful at. But once these smaller purposes were served, all I have is a void where they once existed. That is where I am at now.
Regardless of how you choose to see them, all the theories, programs, or strategies of life, relationships and/or recovery have at their basis the idea of focusing on you.
Again, the emphasis on the individual. Want to make your relationship better - become a better you. Want to succeed in business - become a better you. want to be happier - become a better you.
One of the problems will all of these is that it seems as though each of these "gurus" has their own idea of what constitutes a better you. But the idea is the same - just become a better you.
Hence we get back to purpose - how successful we are at fulfilling whatever purpose we follow is ultimately how we judge ourselves. or how you conclude you are a better you.
Right now, I am struggling to find my true purpose in life. I am lonely because I have none. From the struggle to fulfill our purpose comes all of the positives that make us who we are to ourselves and to others. 
Confidence, strength, decisiveness, courage, indeed our sense of self all are based on the foundation of purpose. Without purpose, all of the above are baseless and relative.
You cannot be who you want if everything is relative. You cannot have what you want if what you want is constantly subject to change. You can not build a strong lasting relationship on relativity.
So my struggle is to find my purpose for living, to answer the age old question "why am I here?"
Anyone - feel free to comment, add your thoughts, challenge me, question me, advise me


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## Mr.Fisty

How we interpret the world and experience it is done through each of us as a vocal point.

Our actions cause a rippling effect and those around us do the same.

If you are depressed, then the happiness and fulfillment of others around you , like family, are affected by your state. Being positive and constantly thinking positive will draw others more to you.

Also, you can affect your own state by focusing more on the positive things in your life. Your hard work is going towards a goal and when you purchase your bike, you can be proud of the effort you put into your goal and completing it. You're holding off instant gratification in the promise of a better reward down the line.

If you are lacking in relational skills, there are books and online videos that can help you develop those tools.

If you're finding it hard to stay connected, look at yourself first. Did your ex help create a wall? Are you afraid to trust because you simply placed your trust in the wrong person? Having self-awareness and inflection is a healthy skill.


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## Ynot

Mr.Fisty said:


> How we interpret the world and experience it is done through each of us as a vocal point.
> 
> Our actions cause a rippling effect and those around us do the same.
> 
> If you are depressed, then the happiness and fulfillment of others around you , like family, are affected by your state. Being positive and constantly thinking positive will draw others more to you.
> 
> Also, you can affect your own state by focusing more on the positive things in your life. Your hard work is going towards a goal and when you purchase your bike, you can be proud of the effort you put into your goal and completing it. You're holding off instant gratification in the promise of a better reward down the line.
> 
> If you are lacking in relational skills, there are books and online videos that can help you develop those tools.
> 
> If you're finding it hard to stay connected, look at yourself first. Did your ex help create a wall? Are you afraid to trust because you simply placed your trust in the wrong person? Having self-awareness and inflection is a healthy skill.


You can not love someone else until you love yourself. The same holds true of most any other emotion you can think of. The fact is that I don't know what I want, so I don't know what will make me happy, content, satisfied, or any other positive emotion you can think of.


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## Pluto2

@Ynot, I feel your pain, I honestly do.

As for the loneliness, there's a great realtor in my community that has started a local biking blub. Have you checked Meetup to see if there might be something like that in your area?

Explore around to find your passion. Is it public service, kids, sports, eduction, reading, cooking, mountain climbing, art? I think finding your passion is a good use of your time on lots of levels. First, what ever you do will end up being productive, which in turns always helps heal wounds. Second, it gets you out there meeting new people. And finally, you might actually find your passion.

My oldest is leaving for college next month at although I knew it was coming, I am dreading this. It is forcing me to come to the realization that this portion of my life is indeed coming to an end and.... then what? I don't think I will ever re-marry, but I had no intention of spending the rest of my life alone. What to do, what to do.


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## Ynot

I've been doing some Meetups, I 've been reading books,. I just finished up 3% Man and Man's Search for Meaning. I am getting ready to start a book by Thomas Moore called, a Religion of One, about finding your spiritual purpose in a secular world. I have been trying to remain active. I went to see family over the 4th. I have visited museums and explored new areas. I have continued to exercise, although not to the extent that I was before. I have been riding my bike sporadically. I have started running again. I have avoided getting drunk, although I have still had a few beers on occasion. I have avoided heavy drugs and getting stoned. I tell myself I am not going to date, but I feel so lonely I just want some human interaction. 
But I still feel empty and apathetic. I am not finding any joy in my new experiences. I do not find peace in power or money, I never did. I do not find peace in pleasure. I have had meaningless sex, I have gotten drunk and I have gotten high - but those are not the answer. 
The answer is inside me. I am starting to wonder if it is something I really don't want to admit or let go of? I can't accept that my marriage is over despite the reality of not talking to my ex for over 7 months (aside from angry reactions), her insisting on the divorce and us being hundreds of miles apart. It is stupid! I know that even if it were a possibility, I must fix me first. 
In fact every algorithm I process thru my mind comes back to that same issue - fixing me first. 
I have grown, I have gained a lot of self awareness. But I am not the person I want to be. I know what I don't want. I am still trying to figure out what I do want.
My heart is telling me I want my wife, my life, my family back and that some how we are special and can show the world we can rise above the issues and set an example for the world to see. But my mind tells me that is a pipe dream and I need to move on.
I guess at this point my mind and my heart are at odds with each other. Until they get on the same page I am destined to flail away at life with no purpose or meaning


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## Chuck71

Very common theme for the heart and mind to clash. Do you want the "old" her back or the 

person she turned into? I'd love to have the WC '97 back but she's gone. The '13 version.... nah, I'll pass.

It is impossible to erase the existence of your M, you raised a stepson as your own (as did I)

and you have a daughter. You got the shaft in the M but you do have two kids from it.

If.......if... your XW just walked up to your door and said "start anew", could you trust her?

If there is no trust, there can not be "healthy" love


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## Lostinthought61

Ynot, if your wife had died rather then divorce you, you would be grieving at the loss of her, missing her everyday, remembering the good times and bad, people would grieve with you at the beginning, and comfort you. In way your marriage died and in a way you are grieving of what was once and now gone, but the difference is there is no comfort, no shared grief, it is solace event with the only one feeling the pain is you. Your wife moved on even before the ink was dried on the papers, it okay to feel lost, to feel like nothing is replacing that loss. Your still grieving, still working through the process. My recommendation is to focus on yourself but on others. Volunteer at a food bank or church or if you good with your hands Habit for humanity....my point is that you have much to offer, and there are many places that need help. By focus on giving it may help you focus less on grieving.


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## morituri

Why not (no pun intended) try some service to others? I'm sure that you can find a cause you can identify with and that can benefit from your assist.


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## Ynot

I have considered the volunteer stuff but a really big issue I have is that my ex was a volunteer co-ordinator/fund raiser/event planner for several large non-profits and most people that do that job are just like her. She was very charismatic in getting others to do all the hard work and loved being in the limelight of running the operation. I just don't think I could stomach seeing those personality traits on display. 
I went to the counselor today. As I said I know that in all probability there is less than a snow balls chance in hell that there will ever be anything between my ex and myself. I just need to work thru the process. I guess more than anything I am posting so that others who might be in the same boat as I am know that it is normal to feel this way months later. PLUS, when you guys respond like this, it reinforces the process of recovery. So thank you for your responses.


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## BoyScout

Xenote said:


> Ynot, if your wife had died rather then divorce you, you would be grieving at the loss of her, missing her everyday, remembering the good times and bad, people would grieve with you at the beginning, and comfort you. In way your marriage died and in a way you are grieving of what was once and now gone, but the difference is there is no comfort, no shared grief, it is solace event with the only one feeling the pain is you. ......


Sorry but I have always found this to be a bad analogy. I my XW had been hit by a beer truck: 1) The actual process of losing her would have been instantaneous, rather than draw out over the course of a PAINFUL year; 2) While I'm sure I would have felt some abandonment it would not have been nearly as much as I feel knowing she willfully walked away; 3) When a spouse passes, people feel far more sympathy than when one walks away. No one would have ever looked at me and wonder if I was the one driving the beer truck; 4) She would not have taken half our wealth with her when the beer truck hit her; 5) The kids, all grown, would not hate her for the beer truck thing. 

All that said, I understand the similarities in the grieving process. It is similar but the bad feelings are so magnified in comparison.


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## Ynot

"No one would have ever looked at me and wonder if I was the one driving the beer truck"

or even worse:
I would not be looking at myself in the mirror and wondering if I really did drive the beer truck that killed her.


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## Ynot

Another week of self reflection and growth(?)
I realize now just how miserable I had been before she left. I had about a year of utter anxiety prior to the even leaving. I was in crisis, I didn't realize it. I couldn't realize it - I had no context to place it in. 
The fact is that #1 I can't blame her for giving up on me, as I had already given up on myself. That is a very sobering thought, knowing you had given up on yourself.
The second thing I realized is that my anxiety has been present my whole life. I had just never dealt with it before. Short term fixes (aka external validation) made it seem tolerable, but the reality is that I never really dealt with it. I never faced my faced my fears and defeated them. 
I always felt like I wasn't good enough. This despite having had a successful corporate career and then successfully running my own business for years. Despite raising two successful children. Despite a long term marriage, owning my own home, and simply being the best person I knew how to be.
I used to think what the hell was wrong with her, that she could love someone like me? I mean I was such a loser. I had no self confidence. I had no self esteem. Looking back it goes back to child hood.
I can't remember my mom or my dad telling me that they loved me. I was a good student. I tried to do the right things. I never got their validation either. I have been looking for it ever since. 
I will never find that validation. I need to find it within myself. I am an intelligent person. I am self ware. But I don't love myself. I need to love myself before I can ever love another.
The question is what does loving yourself mean? I intend to find out. 
People told me when this all started that it was an opportunity. An opportunity to grow and become better, not bitter. I have absorbed a lot of experience. Now I need to start seeing the growth of that experience.


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## Chuck71

Did it ever occur to you, even though you knew it was over....

you could not compel yourself to 'walk away?' You were the 

head of the household, the stalwart, it would have been like a

captain abandoning ship. Being raised in the "John Wayne" era,

a man is not taught to do this. 

Back in 2012, one night I was awake, WC went to bed with the 

chickens. There was a blues / hair band called Cinderella back

in the 80s and 90s.... they had a song Heartbreak Station. I remember

listening to it on the radio.... as a teen. In 2012 I knew what the song meant.

From 1:25 to 2:00, it really speaks to you.

You have had Co-D issues..... you are correcting those. Don't be too hard

on yourself...... ironic coming from someone who is my own worst critic.

Self happiness lies within you. I set certain goals for myself years ago....

some achieved, some still in process. I am content currently with my life work

and if I achieve nothing more, I am content. Satisfied.... no. But anything from

here on out is "gravy on the biscuit."

Life struggles tend to define us more than prosperity..... any one can live positive

in prosperity.... living through your life struggles.... that defines your DNA


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## Ynot

Absolutely Chuck. I was in crisis before the marriage ended. I felt trapped because walking away was not something I could do. It was not something I did. But I realize now that I was really really unhappy with myself more than anything. I couldn't make the choices I needed to make for me. I was paralyzed and as I said I felt trapped. I could not see anyway out other than death. I knew I could never take my own life. That would be unfair to my kids, my wife and every one else. It would have been the easy way out - simply to die. But, alas, that hasn't happened. So I get to live. How I live is now up to me. The choice in effect was made for me when I wouldn't make it myself. 
I just need to convince myself. 
I do not want to be bitter, I want to be better. I do not want to repeat my past mistakes, I want to learn from them. I have experienced the pain, now I want to feel the growth.
I just need to convince myself.

On a side note, business is booming since I decided to concentrate more locally. I took a new client that is sending me tons of work. I will be able to fund my life just on what they send me. Everything else is gravy, and there is a LOT of gravy flowing right now.

I started looking for a bike again. I feel more confident in my financial situation. I also know that I need to keep taking chances on ME. The only way to find out is to try!


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## Chuck71

How far into the M did you start feeling this way? 

When do you think she checked out?

How far in between the first one checking out, did the second also?


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> How far into the M did you start feeling this way?
> 
> When do you think she checked out?
> 
> How far in between the first one checking out, did the second also?


I started feeling anxiety back when I had to file my BK and all she could say was "you do whatever you have to do, I don't want to know about it". I think that is about the same time she started checking out. 
The fact is she couldn't get behind my dream to be my own boss and not some corporate drone. And I couldn't give up my dream just because she wanted the "security" of a paycheck. I was never able to convince her that there is much more security in running your own life than there is in someone else running for you. Apparently she felt that since I had to file BK due to the economy crashing, that I was some how less responsible than if I had had a job and lost it, and then had to file BK due to the economy crashing.
The industry I work in was the hardest hit sector of the economy. Thousands lost their jobs and many faced financial ruin. I was able to save the most important things, which apparently didn't matter as much as the steady limited paycheck she thought represented security.
Regardless, neither one of us was perfect. We both made mistakes. Neither of us knew how to talk to the other one. And none of it can be done over. It is what it is. 
As I said before, I just need to convince myself to believe in me again instead of the relationship. It is slowly happening. I keep looking for that epiphany that will lift the weight and allow me to soar. So far it has been elusive. Hopefully it will happen real soon, if not I guess I just need to be patient and know it is coming.


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## Ynot

I have made an interesting observation this evening. I sometimes screw around and take on line psych surveys. Typically the results are that I am a very rational and intelligent person. Yet over the past few years I have been almost completely driven by emotion. 
My first question, to myself is, do I lie to myself that I am rational because I think it sounds like I am intelligent? 
If not, was my pre-divorce anxiety a reaction to not being true to myself and ignoring the rational explanation?
Or did I just allow the cat to get so far out of the bag, that I haven't been able to catch it?
I have always defined intelligence to be the ultimate driver of happiness. After all a truly intelligent person should absolutely know how to make themselves happy. I have truly not been very happy over the last few years.


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## sapientia

Ynot - are you dating yet? Just coffee, light and breezy nothing more required.


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## Ynot

sapientia said:


> Ynot - are you dating yet? Just coffee, light and breezy nothing more required.


As a matter of fact I am. Why? Rationally my mind tells me that sitting around feeling sorry for myself is not the answer.
My mind also tells me that people grow apart. I know that I am not anything like the man I was 25 years ago. I also know that I not anything like the man I was 1 year ago either.


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> I also know that I not anything like the man I was 1 year ago either.


I can vouch for that.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzDSzQ0rzA


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## sapientia

Ynot said:


> As a matter of fact I am. Why? Rationally my mind tells me that sitting around feeling sorry for myself is not the answer.
> My mind also tells me that people grow apart. I know that I am not anything like the man I was 25 years ago. I also know that I not anything like the man I was 1 year ago either.


Good. If you weren't I was going to suggest you do. Keep it light but I think you will enjoy the relaxed nature of the endeavour.


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## Ynot

I am still coming to grips with just how far I had allowed my self to slide into the abyss. The slide started way before she left and probably precipitated her actually deciding to leave. I just have not been happy for a long time. I realized that I hade become weak, with no center. My entire sense of self was focused on the relationship and I had lost all interest in so many of the things I formerly enjoyed. I have not been able to reconnect with any of that satisfaction yet. It hasn't even been a year. Maybe I am just to impatient. But I am sick of being sad. I just don't know how to stop it.
I have gone on dates, but feel nothing towards these women. I realize that my recent relationship was just feeding my addiction for a relationship and was not helping to make me healthy and happy. I had felt relief when I was in that relationship, but ultimately it was the false sense of contentment of not being lonely anymore.
Business is still going great. I am back in charge of my time, which is good. Now I just need to find things to do with that time.


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## Chuck71

When did the youngest graduate college? How close was it to DDay?


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> When did the youngest graduate college? How close was it to DDay?


You know, the more I think about everything that has happened, the more I realize things. For instance, for many months I blamed her for everything that had happened. I tried to construct some thought that made sense to me. I would come up with different scenarios to make sense of it. Often times have to rely on some really convoluted reasoning on an attempt to make the whole thing make sense. I would make assumptions but when I tested the assumptions they would prove to be flawed. I simply couldn't make the pieces of the puzzle fit and it was driving me crazy.

Recently I have been able to begin to recognize that I shared the blame as well. In fact I think blame is to harsh of word to apply towards either of us. Responsibility is probably more accurate. I realize that I was in crisis before she left. There were some real causes for my crisis to be sure - mid life, end of parenting role, changing goals, etc. I was unsure of my self. I was unsure of my future. I had given up hope. I was waiting to die - those were my responses to things that were effecting me, IOW my responsibilities!

Did she cause some of my stress? To be sure! Whether her response was a reaction to my stress or my stress was a reaction to her actions - I will never know. The fact is, it was a little of both.
She chose to respond on her way, I chose to respond in mine. Neither of us were perfect and I believe we both responded to the best of our abilities as human beings.

The past is the past. None of us can change it. All we can do is take the lesson and apply it today so that our future is better and try not to make the same mistakes going forward. 

That is where I am at today. Recognizing my mistakes, trying to learn the lesson and applying them today.


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## Ynot

I bought a motorcycle today. A 1986 Yamaha Virago 700. It has 22,000 miles on it. The guy wanted $1000. I talked him down to $900. Then while he delivering the bike, it fell over on his trailed and dented the fuel tank. So he knocked another $100 off. In the end I paid $800 for the bike.
It needs new tires. As soon as I am comfortable taking it on the road, that is my first stop.
I have my MC endorsement on my license and I called my insurance agent to get insurance.
I went to the local bike superstore (Iron Pony) and bought a helmet and an armored jacket. I already have boots and jeans. So I am good to go.
For the time being I will ride it around the apartment complex I live in to get used to it. Once I get that down, I will head the nearest parking lot to practice some more. I figure in about a week or two I will be road ready.
The little riding I did this evening was very soothing. I can't wait for a week end road trip!
Business has been good. My computer crashed over the week end. In a sea change of reaction I looked at it as an opportunity to upgrade both by computer as well as the software I was using. In the past I would have been beside myself with anger. I am refusing to let the pressure get to me. Instead of being upset not only did I treat myself to a new computer, but I also treated myself to a motorcycle and some cool riding gear!


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## Chuck71

Cue Steppenwolf 

give a hot 22 y/o a ride on it

post a pic of you two on FB


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Cue Steppenwolf
> 
> give a hot 22 y/o a ride on it
> 
> post a pic of you two on FB


No 22 y/o rider yet. But I did post a pic of my new toy on FB.


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## Ynot

The roller coaster ride continues....
I was bouncing along the bottom for a while. I was a little depressed about the end of my relationship. I realize it was a rebound and she wasn't what I wanted out of life and I learned A LOT about myself thru the relationship and from the break up. But it still had me off kilter for a while. More recently, I have begun to really concentrate on my business and things are really picking up. This month has been my best month EVER. 
I have basically nearly doubled my monetary assets I had when I landed here. And that was after nearly depleting them trying to get started. 
I feel more sure of my future. So much so that I bought the motor cycle I have wanted to get for most of my life.
I have been running. I haven't gotten back into working out yet, but I keep thinking about it. The weather has just been too nice to be inside though.
I am finding it easier to get my emotions in check and keep them there. So many of the things I was told early on are starting to make sense.
I realize that I have to be me, before I can be anything for anybody else. I realize that I have the self esteem to not be phased by rejection. I realize I need the confidence to project my self to attract success (financial and emotional).
I am taking the baby steps needed to move forward with MY life. I am realizing that no matter how much I want all the pain to stop, that it won't stop until I learn the lesson it is teaching me. Those lessons happen on their own time and no matter what I just have to wait for them to happen. The only way to do that is to keep moving forward and experiencing new things, that provide the missing ingredient to make the lesson catalyze in my mind. Without the experiences they never will.


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## Ynot

Last night I went for my first real bike ride. I had putzed around the apartment complex for a few days and had put around 15 miles on the bike. Last night I decided to take to the road. I took a turn around the complex and then headed out on the road. I headed out to the country. I ended up riding about 40 miles pm the country roads. It was a very interesting experience.
I have driven cars for almost 40 years, including several manual transmission vehicles along the way. I also used to own several antique tractors and have operated various riding mowers, push mowers, chain saws, tillers, weed eaters and other types of equipment with internal combustion engines. IOW I am familiar with machines.
Riding the bike was a totally different experience. I still felt the throb of the engine, could feel the engine wind up, the gears shifting, the dieseling when I over shifted, the surging when I shifted improperly etc. But it was different than anything else I had experienced. The machine was more powerful, more responsive. Every thing was more finely tuned and more connected. Plus I was on the machine and felt much more connected to it.
The road was different as well. Suddenly the cracks and tar strips became more noticeable. The perspective was different. Curves were more noticeable. I could feel the grade of the road thru the bike as it worked harder going up hill.
Finally the ride itself was all new to me. I had ridden bicycles down hill before. But this was different! The power of accelerating was all new. Completely different than being in a car.The wind, the noise, the feel of the road all combined to create a new experience. Even stopping was different. It was engaging.
To top it off, the sunset was beautiful and I got to give that cool biker wave a couple of times.


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## BoyScout

Ynot said:


> The roller coaster ride continues....
> 
> I am realizing that no matter how much I want all the pain to stop, that it won't stop until I learn the lesson it is teaching me. Those lessons happen on their own time and no matter what I just have to wait for them to happen.


I've said before that reading your tales of your journey has been very, very helpful to me. I am a couple of months behind you having moved through a similar situation. I had a couple of great weeks, only to have my demons come visit me this weekend. Your quote above is something I've tried to deny but it is so very true. Until I learn, they will visit on occasion. 

On another note, I don't have the attention span for a motorcycle, but I did just purchase a drop-top roadster. I know it's cliche, but It's something that I've always wanted but never did for myself because I was always looking after everyone else. Now.... it's mine and it's fabulous.


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## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> On another note, I don't have the attention span for a motorcycle, but I did just purchase a drop-top roadster. I know it's cliche, but It's something that I've always wanted but never did for myself because I was always looking after everyone else. Now.... it's mine and it's fabulous.


BoyScout, that is the same way I feel about my motorcycle. I used to half jokingly say I had adult onset ADD, because I couldn't focus and constantly procrastinated. But riding a motorcycle forces you to live in the moment. Believe me, I have already had a few lapses while riding, that have forced me right back to the present. Luckily, nothing major, but still I have found a few occasions where my mind starts drifting to the past or the present, only to be immediately confronted by the life or death task at hand. 
Getting my bike was my first real declaration of independence. My ex hated bikes. I had always wanted one. But like you, I was a pleaser and never got one. 
Have fun with the roadster. Hopefully you'll find a companion to ride along with you enjoying the brisk cool air, sun shine and colorful leaves of the coming fall!

PS, even the act of getting a motorcycle has been a lesson. I bought a used bike. I realize it is just a starter bike. But it made me realize just how many times in my life I have compromised on what I wanted to try to make some one else happy. I drove the older 15 year old vehicle without A/C for 20 years even though I spend about a 1/3 to 1/2 of my day every day driving. In the meantime my ex always had the better vehicle. I bought a 30 year old pontoon boat, instead of anew one. I bought 60 year old tractors instead of a new one. The list of compromises goes on and on. I don't have to compromise any more (other than to assuage my own concerns). I have already been checking out new bikes and financing. My plan is to be ready to buy a brand new bike next spring.


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## Ynot

Damn it to hell! I hate this! 
So my daughter invites me over for dinner tonight. When I get there on the refrigerator door is a pic of her and my ex. My ex is all smiley! It just tore me up again.
I want so much to just be happy again. I am so fvcking sick of being depressed!
Came home and cried for a half an hour. I want this to be over!!! I feel as though I am going to be depressed forever.
The sh1t of is that I can understand why she would be happy now. She is free of me. I was negative and depressed. She doesn't have that burden to carry around anymore.
Unfortunately I still do!


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## running late

Don't beat yourself up over a little relapse. That just makes it worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BoyScout

Hang in there. My demons came back to see me last week, and they came back with a vengeance. I truly know how you feel. We can't condemn ourselves when we stumble. I keep telling myself that I that am not the first person that has gone through something like this and they made it through to the other side. We'll make it too. It will end and it will get better.

Now, about your XW. First, you don't really know if she's happy or not. A picture of her smiling means nothing. I see my XW on a rare occasion and she always wants to act like we best buddies. SHe got what she wanted but that doesn't mean she's happy. That leads to my second point, who cares if she's happy or not. Don't tie your happiness on anything your XW does. If you feel for you to be happy she needs to be unhappy, you'll never truly be happy. I decided the best outcome for me would NOT be for her to come groveling back because she was wrong and miserable. The better thing would be for her to say she was happier after she left and that she would like to share that happier life with me again. Now, I don't think that would ever happen and I am not holding my breath or waiting for it.

You've been a great guide and inspiration to me. Hang in there we'll get through this!!


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## Chuck71

BoyScout said:


> Hang in there. My demons came back to see me last week, and they came back with a vengeance. I truly know how you feel. We can't condemn ourselves when we stumble. I keep telling myself that I that am not the first person that has gone through something like this and they made it through to the other side. We'll make it too. It will end and it will get better.
> 
> Now, about your XW. First, you don't really know if she's happy or not. A picture of her smiling means nothing. I see my XW on a rare occasion and she always wants to act like we best buddies. SHe got what she wanted but that doesn't mean she's happy. That leads to my second point, who cares if she's happy or not. Don't tie your happiness on anything your XW does. If you feel for you to be happy she needs to be unhappy, you'll never truly be happy. I decided the best outcome for me would NOT be for her to come groveling back because she was wrong and miserable. The better thing would be for her to say she was happier after she left and that she would like to share that happier life with me again. Now, I don't think that would ever happen and I am not holding my breath or waiting for it.
> 
> You've been a great guide and inspiration to me. Hang in there we'll get through this!!


Scout...... those are hard to leave behind. I still have flashbacks to when my XW was golden.

As long as you know that was the past her and not the current.....things can make sense.

I even started a novel about our first five years..... yes it was that great. Whoever she turned into is a dead body

but the heart keeps beating, a walking corpse, running from her childhood


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## Ynot

Bounce back! So I started listening to audio books about self esteem as I drive around doing my job and traveling. Wayne Dyer and Jack Canfield so far. They have been very helpful in my current state of mind. Instead of having that empty void that I allow to fill up with all of the woulda's coulda's and shoulda's and allowing my ego to drag my self into the dark whole it seems to want to wallow in. Instead, these books seed and fertilize my thoughts towards becoming better. Giving up the victim mentality, attracting positive things into my life, learning from my mistakes etc etc. 
I have always considered myself to be an intelligent person and I assumed I had enough self awareness to make myself happy. But the further along the journey I travel, the more I realize how little I really know, never knew, was never taught or perhaps forgot.
Rather than be discouraged, I am looking at it from the stand point of how much better my life could be if I learn the lessons being presented to me.
In a way it is just like when we were in school. Our teachers presented material. Some of us got it, some of us didn't. Those that did, got good grades, those who didn't got bad grades. As we moved forward in life some of those who got it, forgot it and went on to lead lives of lowered expectations. Those who never got it, typically went on to lead lives of low acheivement and limited opportunities. Those who got it, remembered it and applied, typically became successes.
So it is with life. The audio books have provided real cues to get my mind moving again. Remembering what I may have forgotten. Providing new knowledge that I was never presented and allowing me to realize what I need to do as I move forward.


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## Chuck71

I strongly recommend CS Lewis, Abolition of Man. It is on audio


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## Ynot

Realizations:
I had allowed my self esteem to sink so low that I was lost. I was negative. I was depressed. I was hopeless. 
While I had allowed this to happen. I also realized my ex was a contributing factor. But again, her contribution would not have mattered as much had I had better self esteem.
I allowed my bankruptcy to define me. Nobody else even knew. Except for my ex. Her statements that I was to blame because I wouldn't get a job and that I should do whatever I wanted (as if I wanted that) and that she didn't want to know about it, completely undermined whatever was left of my self esteem. I realize that she did not intend it that way. I really don't think she is an evil person, and she was just being human. But then again had I had my self esteem I would have asserted reality into the situation instead of simply allowing my self to be victimized again.
I realize that I had allowed my self to be victimized over the years. I gave in to her demands and want, often times at the expense of my own. I short changed my self. I felt I didn't deserve love or respect or appreciation, even though I craved all of those things. I realize there is no going back to fix any of those things, but there are lessons to learn and I am trying to learn them.
I realize that yesterday is gone but my tomorrow starts today.


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## BoyScout

YNOT:

Again I believe we are fellow travelers on the same journey. I've been traveling more lately and have spent quite a bit of time on recent trips reading some, for lack of a better term, self-help books. I too, was surprised how little i really know about what me feel and act the way I do. I thought I knew and was comfortable with myself. In my studies it has been revealed to me how the events of my childhood helped contribute to how I've reacted to everything that has taken place over last few months. It has been hugely helpful to me. I realize that I have a cognitive gap between things I know to be true and I how feel they are. For example, I feel that there will be no end to the pain I am feeling. I know, however, that this will end, I will get over this and get on with my life at some point. Those disconnects have been causing me great emotional pain. I took the time to list all of these things out and I review the list every day just to remind myself. that while I may feel like the biggest loser in the world, I am the only person who thinks that. I mentioned to a good freind that I was terrified because I did not see anything that was going to get me off the terrible path I seem to be stuck on. I realized the other day that there is only one thing that has the power to get me off that path and that thing is ME. Only i can do that. A girlfriend can't a new car, new job, or friend can not. Only I can change me.

On a related note, I recently went on a date with a woman I went to high school with. I had not seen nor spoken to her in many years. Way back when I was too chicken to ask her out thinking she's way out of my league. A mutual friend put us in touch and I got up the nerve to ask her out. I am sure you can guess that she said she wishes I had asked her out back then. I charmed her the other night and we've set a second date.


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## Ynot

I was starting to do a little running before the SHTF about a year ago. I never quite got to where I wanted to be - able to run a competitive 5k. So I moved here and dabbled at it for a while but never really got anywhere. Then I started trying some other things out - biking, yoga, etc. I was working out over the winter and then kind of just stopped everything for about a month or so. My prior motivation of doing things to prove her wrong or right just wast't the motivation I needed. About a month ago I decided I needed to start doing things for me. So I started working on running again. I ran cross country for a while in HS and I always enjoyed running when I was young. The perimeter around my apartment complex is about 3.2 miles. I started walking it. Then I started running the north south portions and walking the east west portions. I slowly added some of the east-west into my runs. I got to a point where I could run most of it with only a three of four walking breaks of a block or two. Last week I decided I just had to force myself to run the whole thing. So I went out and did it. Then I started timing myself. My first time was just over 30 minutes. The next day I was about 30 seconds behind that pace. I went out and bought an arm band and set up the Pandora on my phone. The next day I went out and ran 27:22, then today I ran 26:40. According to the calculators I have seen that would place me just below being able to place in a local class race. My goal for this fall is to run in and place in some local 5ks


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## BoyScout

Ynot, I just wanted share with you what happened to me last night. I had been doing great for about two weeks and in fact last week was nothing short of amazing. I went out with some friends last night and for reasons I can't explain, I cratered and hard. The mood was one of the darkest yet. I read through all of my affirmations. I tried to talk to my friends. It was terrible. My friends, none of which have ever been divorced, don't understand and can't possibly relate. They just tell me to snap out of it. Were only it that simple. I told one that I almost embrace the pain because that is the one thing that is consistent. The good feelings are great but seem to be fleeting. The pain, it's always there at some level. 

I went and bought a new bicycle helmet and went for a 15 mile ride. That was the only thing that could clear my head. I surprised myself when I bought the helmet. I guess I'm completely self destructive. 

Anyway, I wanted you to know that the ups and downs are not just experiences that you are having. They haunt me. God I wish they'd stop.


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## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> Ynot, I just wanted share with you what happened to me last night. I had been doing great for about two weeks and in fact last week was nothing short of amazing. I went out with some friends last night and for reasons I can't explain, I cratered and hard. The mood was one of the darkest yet. I read through all of my affirmations. I tried to talk to my friends. It was terrible. My friends, none of which have ever been divorced, don't understand and can't possibly relate. They just tell me to snap out of it. Were only it that simple. I told one that I almost embrace the pain because that is the one thing that is consistent. The good feelings are great but seem to be fleeting. The pain, it's always there at some level.
> 
> I went and bought a new bicycle helmet and went for a 15 mile ride. That was the only thing that could clear my head. I surprised myself when I bought the helmet. I guess I'm completely self destructive.
> 
> Anyway, I wanted you to know that the ups and downs are not just experiences that you are having. They haunt me. God I wish they'd stop.


Now it is my turn! You have comforted me with kind words a number of times throughout this thread. You really don't know how much your words mean to me. Knowing that someone is experiencing the same things that I am, is so liberating and enlightening. Hang in there, brother! I have my moments as well, but we will overcome and become better people with the ability to give and to get a much higher level of love than we formerly achieved. 
These moments will pass. Last night I went out with no expectations and ended up meeting a woman whom I am very attracted to. Perhaps the first woman I have had a true attraction towards in almost a year. I am really trying to ratchet down my emotions as I have not even asked this woman yet. But still I woke with more hope than I have had in almost a year. 
Even if it is not this particular woman, I realize that I can still feel this emotion. If I can feel that emotion, I can feel everything that follows as well. 
I think about my situation and I can get very sad and wepy. But then I remind myself of just how miserable I really was the past few years. I realize that I may in fact be able to find what I was expecting in my marriage, as long as I hold onto the thoughts of what I want.
My attraction to this woman is not 100% physical. Although there are some very real attributes that really turn me on. In addition I like the fact that we share a profession as well have a long established role as self employed people.
I will keep you posted as to how this turns out.
I wasn't trying to make this a post about me, I truly intend to serve you as a reminder, that better days can be ahead IF we are willing to imagine them. 
We need to proud of our pasts. Own up to it. Embrace it and use it as a catalyst to move forward. We need to turn those negative emotions into positive driving forces to propel us into the future. The night is always darkest just before the dawn. It is up to us to look for our dawns and make them happen!
The whole reason we even feel negative emotions about our pasts is because we have yet to fully embrace the lesson of it into our lives. We continue to fight against the obvious!


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## BoyScout

I wish you well with your new friend. I recently reconnected with a friend from the distant past. The best way to describe it is that it is exciting. Unfortunately, she's half way across the country. A good thing at this point, I guess. It is good to know that there is at least one woman out there that would take an interest in me. I know there's more, but I am not ready to go looking for them.

What really sucks about where i am right now is that when she walked out, she also seems to have taken all my confidence and all my faith. I miss those things and really would like to have them back.


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## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> I wish you well with your new friend. I recently reconnected with a friend from the distant past. The best way to describe it is that it is exciting. Unfortunately, she's half way across the country. A good thing at this point, I guess. It is good to know that there is at least one woman out there that would take an interest in me. I know there's more, but I am not ready to go looking for them.
> 
> What really sucks about where i am right now is that when she walked out, she also seems to have taken all my confidence and all my faith. I miss those things and really would like to have them back.


SHE did not take anything when she left aside from her self. You gave them to her. Now is the time for you to find the real you. What you gave her was the false confidence and faith that comes from external validation. I have been there. I am still struggling with it. But it is true.
Look within yourself and question those thoughts of lost confidence and faith (primarily in your self). When you think about in a disinterested way, you will see how false they are. Look at your last few posts - a friend introduced you to another woman and she was interested in you. You reconnected from a long lost friend. These are things that prove the little naysaying voice in your head absolutely wrong. Build on these small victories and keep pushing for more. Think about all of the successes you had to this point in your life. 
Rebel against your ego! Give up the victim mentality. Take control of your life.
You were damaged, bruised and battered by your divorce. So was I. But the fact that we are on here discussing it is evidence enough that we both want a better life and to be better men. Better persons! 
Your past is behind you. As is mine. We can do nothing to change it. We can only control that which we control and the most important thing for us to control is ourselves. When we understand that, our futures are ours to enjoy and prosper in. 
As I said before I haven't even asked this woman out. She might hang up on me, but the little spark I felt when I met her is something I haven't felt for a woman since I met my ex. The spark may get extinquished. But it isn't so much the spark as much as it is knowing I can still have the spark that is so exciting. 
Good luck with your lady friend. Just remember that she is but one of the nearly infinite numbers of possibilities you now have before you. 
You are now in control of your life! it is scary. So what! Do you really have any other choice?


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## Ynot

So I called the woman I met the other night and asked her out. Our schedules don't allow for any time this week. I am free early but tied up later and she is tied up the next couple of days. She suggested next week for sure. She seemed receptive to the idea, at least she sounded excited to hear from me. So we shall see.
In the meantime I have been running to train for a 5k. I have got my time below 26 minutes today. When I started I could barely get to 31 minutes. So I am making progress.
Playing hooky tomorrow. I have 18 holes to play, er I mean inspect. Then playing hooky Thursday afternoon for another round of golf. Friday it is breakfast with my daughter and then my brother will come to town. 
Friday is the one year anniversary of my ex leaving. I plan to stay busy this weekend and not think about. I know that over the next few months the 1 year anniversaries are just going to come like a freight train. I am not going to let them phase me. 
I am making great progress in re-establishing myself and I am beginning to really see the positives in all of this. I may not have wanted it, but I definitely needed it. I had become such a hollowed out shell of my former self. The more I read and listen, the more I realize the circular reasoning that had screwed me into the ground. Some of the impetus was internal, but there was quite a bit of external as well. That is not to say I am doing anything other than recognizing it took two of us to get to that point. Even if I had not been drifting into a crisis, I would probably have still ended up where I am eventually. She had checked out a long time ago and I am starting to realize that.
It is funny, I am trying to face my fears. I had almost talked myself into NOT calling that girl "she will think I am a creep", "she probably doesn't even remember me", "what would she want to go out with me for",etc, etc. I finally had a talk with myself and told myself that that was just my ego trying to keep me safe from rejection. Then I called her. As I said, I have no idea where this will go or even if we will ever actually get together but it is a start.


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## Chuck71

BoyScout said:


> I wish you well with your new friend. I recently reconnected with a friend from the distant past.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: Lawd don't say re-connects..... I'm bad about them. Recently re-conn'd with 1st

and 2nd love back in late 2014. But Chuck.... didn't things end with them in 1990 and 1996?

Well... from 1997 to 2012 I was with XW, 2013-14 was with ex g/f. Never had time to consider

anything. The books on them are closed but not a thing wrong with doing things as friends / FWB.

Just as long as you can separate the difference in "then" and "now" and be sure she knows the score as well.


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## Chuck71

Ynot;1341264 Friday is the one year anniversary of my ex leaving. I plan to stay busy this weekend and not think about. I know that over the next few months the 1 year anniversaries are just going to come like a freight train.[/QUOTE said:


> Being a history buff and ADHD.... I pride myself on dates. I was very worried about my 1 year things...
> 
> DDay.... day we filed, day it was final, day I walked into the light
> 
> But what I was most worried about was our anniversary, the M and when we met.
> 
> It bothered me.... maybe 5% what I feared it would.
> 
> Just always remember.... you can not control what others do but you can control how they treat you.


----------



## BoyScout

Chuck71 said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl: Lawd don't say re-connects..... I'm bad about them. Recently re-conn'd with 1st
> 
> and 2nd love back in late 2014. .


In this case, we never 'connected' way back then. Just casual friends, but enough to not have to wonder what baggage we're both carrying. Good news, is that none of it is with the other. 

So far the 'connection' is going well. Distance is going to be an issue for sure. I'm in no hurry and have low expectations, so I'm already ahead of the game.


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## Chuck71

Long distance relationships...... was main premise for the first novel I wrote.

Two teenagers, 400 miles apart, late 1980's..... 

Can easily relate....


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## Ynot

I keep getting better with my running times. Today I did 3 miles in 25:17. I am going to research some local 5k races and sign up for a few in September and in October. Maybe I will try for a 10k on my 55th birthday in November. I also decided I am not an old man yet,, so I am ditching the hybrid golf clubs I bought a few years ago when I was starting to slide into my funk of hopelessness. 
I started writing this post on Thursday and forgot to hit enter. Today is Sunday.
My one year anniversary was Friday. I had breakfast with my daughter and made no mention of it. Later I talked to my son and again I made no mention of it. My brother came down and went golfing. Yesterday we went to tour some caverns and then went golfing again today. I have kept the memory from creeping into my life. It has been hard, but I have done it. Even heard "our" song in a movie over the week end.
One thing I have realized is that I have survived without her. I am still alive and kicking. There was more than one time when I just wanted to die. I even thought about killing myself. Anyways it has been a year and here I am. So I guess I am going to make it!
Spending time with my brother is good therapy for me. He is a lot like me. Being around him makes me realize just how negative I had gotten. Because he is a very negative person. Through it all he has been there for me and has been one of the most supportive people in my life. However, he has some issues of his own. It was therapeutic to repeat his advice to me back to him. Stay on the moment, stay grounded. Think good thoughts. We talked about a lot of things over the week end. I have a lot of digesting to do about the things we talked about.


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## Chuck71

It is a slow process, can't cure it overnight. I'm a bit over 2.5 years out of mine. We had some great times....

but those are in the past. Could some of these be replicated today.... they could but things change, people change.

The last time I was single for an extended period (nothing serious) was 18 years ago.

I don't care as much about drag racing, closing bars at 3AM, or running with the guys. 

I was 25 then..... I'm not 25 any more. You have to rediscover yourself.....


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## Ynot

Well, once again I have proven myself (actually my ego) wrong. I had called the woman I had mentioned previously, last week. She was busy when I was available and vice versa. I asked if I could call this week and she said OK. Now a week has passed and I was going to call her yesterday, but never got around to it. I really was busy. I had thought about it and then I thought about again today. My little voice of negativity kept telling me "she was just being polite", " she won't even answer the phone when she sees my number", "she is out of my league" etc etc etc. I finally told my self to shut up as nothing ventured, nothing gained and made the call. We are meeting for drinks on Thursday at a nearby pub. So much for the little voice inside my head. Looking forward to finding out more about this woman. Right now all I know is I find her very attractive physically. Now I want to see if I find her attractive in other ways as well.


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## Ynot

More good news from yesterday. Last night I received an email that I have been accepted on the fee panel for a large local banking company. Earlier in the day I was notified that another smaller mortgage company had added me to their fee panel as well. This is great news as it means I can continue to consolidate my business locally and not have to travel 2 hours one way for some of my former clients anymore. Also today I meet with a broker concernng holding my sales license so that I can begin selling real estate as well.


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## BoyScout

Great news for you on both fronts. I am really happy that your business is taking off. That removes a ton of stress from you I'm sure. As for your ego, again we are fellow traveler on the same journey. Because of how my XW treated me I never thought I was quite good enough. She always seemed slightly disappointed in everything in her life especially me. Because I loved her, I guess I took it as fact that she was right. The woman from my past with whom I recently reconnected has done wonders for my ego. She has repeatedly told me so many great things, I am beginning to rethink all of this. The other night she thought I was asleep and leaned over to whisper, "you are a wonderful man and I am lucky you're in my life now." I had not heard a woman say anything like that since before my XW and I were married oh, so many years ago. 

Keep it up. They say success leads to success!!


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## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> Great news for you on both fronts. I am really happy that your business is taking off. That removes a ton of stress from you I'm sure. As for your ego, again we are fellow traveler on the same journey. Because of how my XW treated me I never thought I was quite good enough. She always seemed slightly disappointed in everything in her life especially me. Because I loved her, I guess I took it as fact that she was right. The woman from my past with whom I recently reconnected has done wonders for my ego. She has repeatedly told me so many great things, I am beginning to rethink all of this. The other night she thought I was asleep and leaned over to whisper, "you are a wonderful man and I am lucky you're in my life now." I had not heard a woman say anything like that since before my XW and I were married oh, so many years ago.
> 
> Keep it up. They say success leads to success!!


Thanks for the encouragement. My day basically kind of crashed and burned. I submitted the info my new client had requested and that went fine. Then I had a meeting with the broker the woman had referred me to. The meeting went great, I just have to submit my paper work to the state and take the test. I can become a realtor that easy. Then I had to complete a complex assignment which took me all afternoon, after I had spent a good part of the last two days working on it as well. The report is a real mess, basically some guy spent $5M on a property that might top out at $3M when all is said and done. Then just as I was wrapping that one up, my phone rang. It was the woman I am supposed to meet tomorrow. She said she was very sorry but she just isn't in the right state of mind right now to get into a relationship. She was very flattered that I had asked her out. She said when I came into her life two weeks ago she thought she might be open to dating, but the more she thought about it, the more anxiety she felt. I told her I appreciated her telling me this. I have been there and completely understand. I did tell her I was disappointed because I think she is a very attractive woman and I really had wanted to get to know her better. I wished her well and hoped she was able to resolve her issues. So my date is off tomorrow. At first I was upset, but then I talked myself down. There are other fish in the pond and it wouldn't change anything to get upset anyway. So back to square one on the social side of my life, but full steam ahead on the professional.


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## Ynot

Wow, I woke up this morning "arguing" with my ex wife. I had been dreaming of course. In my dream I had really gotten to the roots of the resentment that led to the end of my marriage. The things that were said and done along the way that were never resolved that led to the divorce. Some of the things I had thought about before, but some were new and I hadn't considered them.
Basically I had come to feel that she blamed me for all of the "failures" in her life. Not only that but I had accepted her blame and internalized it. It wasn't just any one particular incident. It was the sum total of them all.
Over the years, I had placed her on a pedestal. She was so much more sure of herself than I was. She must recognize reality better than I did. That was the way my thinking went. When her schemes or ideas didn't pan out, well somehow I must have been to blame, because I had argued against them or urged caution or "faithful" enough.
I had invested thousands of dollars in silk flowers when she decided to start a floral design business. She did it for about two months and decided that she"didn't really want to spend every week end" doing a wedding. Then I watched as that investment gathered mold in our basement. So later on she took a job doing event planning and worked almost every week end.
I had invested thousands of dollars in high end beads and equipment so she could start a jewelry design business. She would never charge what her product was worth, because she "felt like she was ripping people off". So the beads and equipment all gathered dust in our basement. Later on she took a job managing a fitness center that basically specialized in ripping people off with high fees and burdensome contracts (that she would never have signed)
I built her work shops at work at these endeavors. I made her display cases. I carted her stuff around for her to various shows. I invested in her. When she worked her various jobs I continued to do this for her.
I tried to get her involved in my business, first doing administrative and accounting work. I had a very simple business plan that focused on producing the income. I just needed someone to answer the phone, do some filing and some bookkeeping to free me up to make more money. Instead she decided we needed some elaborate system, which actually reduced the time I had available to produce. She finally decided she "didn't want to just push paper around. Instead she took a job a minimum wage as a part time secretary (?)
Later on, I tried again to get her involved in my business. I tried to show her how I could train her to complete exterior inspections. I was passing up a lot of assignments at the time, because I didn't have time to do these. I explained that she could make $30k a year working 20 hours a week. She decided "that is stupid! I don't want to spend half my week driving around!" So instead she took the "part time" job at the non-profit and proceeded to put 35000 to 40000 miles a year on her vehicle (which I was paying for and which was far nicer than mine) while working 50 hours a week.
Everyone of these endeavors had ended up costing me money, time and aggravation. They caused me to stress, trying to balance my business (which paid for everything) with her needs and created even more stress on our financial situation.
When I "had a job" we had refinanced our house at least four times to consolidate bills over the years. Once we did a consol/refi, we did what the majority of America did - we went out and ran up the debt again. It wasn't so much extravagant living, as much as it was replace the refrigerator, fix the water heater, buy some silk flowers or some beads or some piece of equipment etc. 
When I started my own business, that pattern continued. When the mortgage melt down happened. I lost most of my business. My cash flow dried up. My receivables disappeared as clients filed bankruptcy. My lines of credit were shut down one by one. My interest rates were doubled, tripled, quadrupled. My payments doubled and tripled. I liquidated my savings. I liquidated my stocks, I liquidated my retirement to stave off the wolves. I was told to sell blood to pay a bill or have a garage sale. I dealt with all of this on my own since her attitude was "you do what you have to, I don't want to know about it".
I ended up filing for bankruptcy myself but that I was blamed because I "wouldn't get a job". This despite the fact that I did have a job - one that had funded our life in general and her endeavors in particular just fine for the prior 10 years or so.
As she began to pull away, we had numerous repeating discussions, which mainly involved me not feeling appreciated. To her this meant I just wanted sex. Apparently that is what companionship and partnership meant to her. She told me at one point "I am so busy, I don't have time to think about it!" It, of course meaning sex. Yessir, that is a sure fire way to make your spouse feel appreciated - to be told that you don't even think about the one thing you only do with that person.
When these things happened over the years, I would often initially get angry or frustrated but most time ended up just accepting them and made accomodations and compromises. We would never have money as long as we had kids to support. I didn't want to be cheap and deny my kids the nice vacation she had planned at Hilton head or Disney. She deserved to have the nice car, since she carted the kids around. Etc, etc. One accomodation on top of a compromise after another. In the end I was so far out of my comfort zone on most of these issues I could hardly stand my self.
I dunno, for some reason I had a dream last night that brought all of these issues to the surface again. They serve as a reminder of the real underlying issues that cratered my marriage. Despite me thinking she had all the answers, she really was as clueless about it as I was. I do think she is a selfish person. She knew what she wanted, but was unable or unwilling to work within the frame work of our marriage to achieve them. She may have loved me deeply, but it was only as deep as her understanding would allow. She grew up with no father. She had no examples to refer to. Neither did I. We both made mistakes over the years. It is easy to see them in hindsight. They were made. There is no changing them. I felt them at the time, but had no context to place them in. I had no way of recognizing them for what they were at the time. Apparently neither did she. We failed together because we couldn't succeed together. These are some of the lessons I need to learn from this experience.
Every personal pain is really just unrealized growth. I have felt a lot of pain these past few years. I want to realize the growth


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## Pluto2

Ynot said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. My day basically kind of crashed and burned. I submitted the info my new client had requested and that went fine. Then I had a meeting with the broker the woman had referred me to. The meeting went great, I just have to submit my paper work to the state and take the test. I can become a realtor that easy. Then I had to complete a complex assignment which took me all afternoon, after I had spent a good part of the last two days working on it as well. The report is a real mess, basically some guy spent $5M on a property that might top out at $3M when all is said and done. Then just as I was wrapping that one up, my phone rang. It was the woman I am supposed to meet tomorrow. She said she was very sorry but she just isn't in the right state of mind right now to get into a relationship. She was very flattered that I had asked her out. She said when I came into her life two weeks ago she thought she might be open to dating, but the more she thought about it, the more anxiety she felt. I told her I appreciated her telling me this. I have been there and completely understand. I did tell her I was disappointed because I think she is a very attractive woman and I really had wanted to get to know her better. I wished her well and hoped she was able to resolve her issues. So my date is off tomorrow. At first I was upset, but then I talked myself down. There are other fish in the pond and it wouldn't change anything to get upset anyway. So back to square one on the social side of my life, but full steam ahead on the professional.


It sounds as if she has the same little voice in her mind that you do, but she doesn't, at least not yet, have the strength to tell that voice its wrong. 

Don't worry. The right person will enter your life and you will be ready.


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## BoyScout

Fellow Traveler. Thinking back through this thread I can recall many times where someone has said the past is done and there is nothing we can do to change it. For me, that has not been as difficult as it has been for you but the question of 'Why' will always be out there. Why did she act like she did? I close friend, female, had her spouse basically abandon her and she shared with me the agonies she went through searching for an answer to 'Why'. You've done enough soul searching to recognize that there are things you can do to make sure you will be a better partner in your next relationship. (I'm guessing your X, like mine, has not done that and that is too bad for her). THAT is the key for us, I believe. We need to be ready and constantly working to be better for that next relationship.

The second point relates to the last sentence that Pluto 2 just added. "The right person will enter your life and you will be ready". Even though I've been fortunate enough to 'date' one very wonderful woman for a short time, I really could not imagine the circumstances under which someone would come into my life. I mean I must be a monster right? My X left for seemingly no reason so I must be bad, right? THat thinking dovetailed nicely with my insecurities and really threatened to send me into an unending downward spiral. Every time someone told me to be patient, be myself and be ready, it would make it worse. I convinced myself that no one could or would ever fall for me or feel for me the way i really wanted them to. Then a funny thing happened. She happened. As I've written an acquaintance from HS popped back into my life while I was traveling to the city in which she lives. It has been more amazing than anything I could have possibly imagined. Will this be the relationship of my dreams? I hope so, but who knows. We've got a ton to work out and I've still got some baggage to sort through. The good thing about this is that I can take away that all these folks were right. THere is someone out there. I am not the completely dysfunctional ogre I that I thought myself to be. I am a handsome, fit, successful, well adjusted man and there are women who can and will appreciate that. I continue to be shocked, but at the same time I am amazed.

Will I still get visits from my demons? Most likely, now those little f'ers will know that I know that it can happen to me...... and to you....when you aren't even expecting it.

Keep fighting the good fight, don't look backwards for too long. You said something once that REALLY helped me. I paraphrase, "The is going to stay until you learn the lesson it has to teach". Like I said, I know I'm not out of the woods, but I can see sunlight and I owe a debt to you for that.


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## Ynot

BoyScout, once again thank you for the encouragement. I know you are right (as well as all of the others who have offered the encouragement) that better days are ahead. I really try not to dwell to much on the past. My dream last night really just reinforced my understanding of why it had to end. Sometime when I get in the "what if" phase of trying to make sense of things, I tend to narrow my focus down to one precise moment in time or one incident that must have been why it all happened. I realize it was a process. It was a whole series of little incidents. I didn't enforce boundaries, I allowed things to happen to me without repercussion or response because I was just trying to keep the peace or perhaps maintain the illusion that there really was still a partnership left to maintain. It was the sum total of these continued slights and lack of respect and appreciation that led me to my depressed state. I am learning from my mistakes. But the emotions are still raw.


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## Chuck71

Ynot....... I felt like you at one time..... the last few years of my M

"You could work a F100 company making $100k, you were only as good as your last paycheck"


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## Chuck71

Ynot / Boy Scout..... seems like we're a threesome. My XW told me the MANY things I did wrong. Most were delusions

of blame shift but some were legit. I wouldn't say I have demons from my XW... I have demons from other things

in my past. I like to think back to when she and I owned the world. Then the curtain draws and you realize,

that was a lifetime ago. To me.... remembering those things she vilified me about... gives me an edge.

They were FoS comments and I am aware but... take it and use it to motivate yourself.

Learn from the past to better the future. None of us were perfect... but we gave our all......

we left it on the field. No regrets.....


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## Etrigan

Hello Ynot

Just read entire thread and wanted to say well done mate. There are a few similarities with my own experience, and reading your journal brought back memories, but more than anything a sense of accomplishment of having made it through and emerge a better man.

You are an inspiration.


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## BoyScout

YNOT, I hope you have plans for the long weekend.


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## Ynot

BoyScout said:


> YNOT, I hope you have plans for the long weekend.


Not really, I have some work I need to do this weekend and I have to do some work on my motorcycle. And I still need to do some more work on myself.


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## Ynot

Meh! I am sort of bouncing along the bottom still. I feel I am improving mentally, but my life seems stuck on E. I really am coming to terms with the obvious - my marriage is over, there is no going back, I need to work on myself and I am responsible for my own happiness. I am still very lonely. I moved and left behind the few friends I had. I stay in contact with my siblings and my kids. I try to have lunch with my daughter at least once a week. I have been spending time with my older brother more often. I talk regularly to my old friends and siblings. But I still feel like I have no social life. 
This weekend started off with no plans what so ever. As the week progressed I got some work in that needed done this weekend. So yesterday I had to drive about 1.5 hours to do it. After I was finished I needed to take some pictures for another job I had going on, so I drive the 1/2 hour north from there to take them. Since I was in the area I decided to take my bicycle with me. I rode a 25 mile trail and met an older guy from where I used to live along the way. We talked for a while at the end, but the whole thing was just in passing. I didn't know the guy before and I will probably never see him again. Then I started home and ended up stopping to play a round of golf. I played the round without meeting anyone else on the course. I left the course and went home and rode my motorcycle for about an hour - again by myself. Along the way I passed a bar I occassionally visit. So after I got home I got in my car and went back as it seemed busy. I found a seat at the bar on the patio and ended up talking to a nice couple who were regulars for about an hour (my first real interaction with real people all day! While I as at the bar I noticed a woman sitting across from me kept looking at me. Everytime I looked her way she was checking me out. BUT, I never bothered to approach her. Why? I don't know why! Today I got up and met a meetup group at a local conservatory. I visited for about an hour and left to check out the rest of the exhibits. Then came home and took a nap out of boredom I suppose. Later a woman I had met on line contacted me and I met her for ice cream, but later she texted that I was too new and she was looking for some one to settle down with (?). I don't know I just want to make some connections with some people and start to develop some sort of social network that I don't feel so isolated in.
One observation I made while riding my bicycle - the trail I rode was near where I used to live. My ex and I rode portions of it several times. I realized that that was all we had done was ridden portions. we never rode the whole thing and it had been so long since we had ridden it that in the meantime they had built a huge petroleum cracking plant next to it. So at a minimum it had been 4 years since we had ridden it. The ride made me realize that some of my memories were actually just things I had fantasized about - that we used to ride bikes together a lot, when in fact we had not, it was just another one of those things I imagined to be a part of our life together that never was - another illusion of my memory that kept me wallowing in the past


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## Ynot

Thinking about my present situation - basically feeling alone, isolated, depressed and full of anxiety. The only difference is that before when I was married I filled my time with various activities - mowing the grass or some home improvement project or tending to the garden. I used to joke to myself that I had the most pristine yard in the county because I was the most sexually frustrated person in the world. Now I don't have any outlets, at least none that come close to providing the satisfaction I got from doing a job and then looking back at the finished product. Now I just find things to do, but none of them provide any real relief aside from filling time so I am not sitting around thinking about stuff. Golfing, running, riding my bike or motorcycle just kills time. I feel to fail any sense of accomplishment from it. I need to get off this never ending cycle.

I met a woman on line we met for ice cream last night. She was pleasant and attractive but I really felt no connection to her. Afterwards she textes me that she was sure I was a nice man, but I was too new and she was looking to settle down. "Understood, good luck with your search" was my response. It seems like that has been my story over the past several months. I must be giving off some vibe.

I was thinking about this the other day and the thought occurred to me that in the past, including my marriage and most recent relationship, I had sought out unaccomplished women. I think this is because I feel unaccomplished myself. Now I am meeting some women with real accomplishments and I feel inadequate. In fact my ex could now be described as being very accomplished and I definitely felt overshadowed by her many times. Despite having had my own business in town for 20 years and having been the only person in the county who did my job, I was known locally as my wife's husband. Nobody even knew who I was. 

I say this even though I know it is not really true. I have many accomplishments in my life but somehow I have never felt as though I measure up. I need to figure out how to get over this


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## farsidejunky

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

I think that is solid introspection, Ynot. Knowing and believing are two different things. 

Might I suggest you start with your internal dialogue? Whenever you hear the voice in your mind talk you down, correct it. Think about all you have accomplished. Pat yourself on the back (on the inside).

One other thing. Don't fall into the trap of measuring your worth through your ability to attract a mate. That is a losing proposition every single time.


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## Chuck71

FSJ is spot on...... Ynot, remember back before you met your XW, you'd be watching a movie with a girl,

her cuddled up to you, maybe the movie was a chic flic. You'd think to yourself.... "damn I'd love to be

running with the guys tonight."

Remember hanging out with the guys.... getting into mischief, kind of thinking, "damn I'd love to be 

with a nice girl.... maybe on the couch watching Lethal Weapon."

100% normal.... we all do that. If you define yourself by having a LTR.... it is unhealthy.....

and someone with BPD (not specific, just overview example) issues seek out these types of LTRs.

You should be very selective on who your next LTR will be with. Most of us analyze potential

red flags in a mate "too harshly" at first. Yet.... are too eager to stop watching for those after 2-3-6 months in.

We want to dismiss the chance your mate has red flags, I found the perfect mate. All we are seeking is the 

chemical rush of "falling in love." The -BPD- will put on an Oscar-worthy performance.

Before you know it, you don your Mr. Fixer cape.

I got involved with UG way too early.... even though I took things slow.

She disguised herself very well.... had lots of practice. When the mask came off.... it wasn't long

before we were through. Had I ignored, we'd probably be getting M not long into the future.

Things would be GREAT..... until around 2019. I'd be right back on this board....

Title? The Return of Chuck71: Divorce Wars II

UGH


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## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



farsidejunky said:


> I think that is solid introspection, Ynot. Knowing and believing are two different things.
> 
> Might I suggest you start with your internal dialogue? Whenever you hear the voice in your mind talk you down, correct it. Think about all you have accomplished. Pat yourself on the back (on the inside).
> 
> One other thing. Don't fall into the trap of measuring your worth through your ability to attract a mate. That is a losing proposition every single time.


I try and feel like I do a job for awhile and then phfft! It all comes rushing back. I know I am worthwhile and I have a lot to offer the world. I Continually tell that little voice inside my head the shut the [email protected] up! It seems my ego just wants to scream out for attention and sometimes I give in to it.


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## OGNW

Ynot;13567138
One observation I made while riding my bicycle - the trail I rode was near where I used to live. My ex and I rode portions of it several times. I realized that that was all we had done was ridden portions. we never rode the whole thing and it had been so long since we had ridden it that in the meantime they had built a huge petroleum cracking plant next to it. So at a minimum it had been 4 years since we had ridden it. The ride made me realize that some of my memories were actually just things I had fantasized about - that we used to ride bikes together a lot said:


> This has got to be the most profound thought I have ever read on how our own perception of reality can delude us into accepting what we believe is happiness. It caused me, and I would guess others, to review our own memories while searching for the truth in our relationships.
> 
> Ynot, I wish you only the best as you journey to your ultimate fulfillment in life. Even if it is not what you envisioned so many years ago, I believe you will be triumphant in your future. Sometimes I think we could all use a little of your strength.


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## Ynot

I continue to mull over and think about my life to this point. As I go through the process of introspection, one of the hardest things I have had to face is the realization of my own issues. I understand that I control how I feel and how I act. I also understand that those feelings and reactions are a result of my experiences and knowledge. There are things that I said and did that I would never do now knowing what I know now. Looking back I can see why I did and acted as I did - I truly didn't know any better. I realize that I cannot go back and change things. I realize that whatever damage has been done, there is no undoing. All I can do is learn from it. I also know that I will never know what I do not know and therefore will make "mistakes" in the future. But again, all I can do is learn from them and not make the same mistakes twice. 
To some people this may seem infantile or basic. But these are truly things I never learned growing up. I did not have the benefit of any real positive role models in my life growing up. I was immersed in the family I was born into. Settling was more accepted than achieving.


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## Ynot

Whatever I am experiencing now is personally very painful. I think it what most would call realizing your self. I am beginning to unravel some my beliefs, understandings, and thoughts. Not just how I think about them now, but how I thought about them at various stages in my life. How they are all interrelated. How so many of them supported each other. So that if one idea was somehow judged, or if some lesson was improperly understood, it would influence so many other judgements and lessons down the line (the Butterfly Effect).

I am seeing how some of my earliest experiences have shaped so many of my later actions and reactions. 

Facing the depths of your own ignorance, not just about your self but the world in general. Is very difficult.

I feel clueless. I wish I had some core, some rock solid foundation to cling to. 

I know some of the lessons I am supposed to learn from my experience. I can understand them. I guess I am still having trouble accepting them.

It isn't about accepting what has happened. It is about accepting what I need to take from what has happened.


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## Ynot

I went to the zoo yesterday with a woman I met a few weeks ago. Walking around the place with her reminded me of the last family vacation to Disney. That was really the last time I felt any real sense of happiness and contentment in my life. That was over 15 months ago. I have had moments of not feeling quite so sad and depressed, but those moments were fer and far between and often fueled by alcohol. I hate ffeling this way. I just want it to stop. I know I am supposed to be learning from this pain, and I am. I just wonder how much longer it will go go.

I am trying to accomplish something - anything - everyday. But it feels like what ever I do means nothing. This morning I am off to ride a 34 mile bicycle ride. Whoopdeedoo! I guess when I get done. I can say I did it instead of sitting around feeling sorry for myself?


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## Ynot

So I just got back from my bike ride. Instead of doing the 34 miles. I did 54 miles. Being there brought back so many memories of past times. My ex was an event planner for a large non-profit. I used to go help her set up events. Being at this event and seeing the volunteers, registrations tents and food tents just reminded me of all those early mornings when I got up and drove all over the place carting stuff around, setting things up, assisting in organizing, taking pictures etc etc. so that her event went well. Oh well, there is no going back. I guess I'll just get over it somehow,


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## Ynot

The voyage to the center of the universe (aka self discovery) continues.
So I woke up this morning thinking about things, when a thought occurred to me. Perhaps it isn't much of a revelation to some. But, to me it was.
First off let me say, that my situation is somewhat unique in that much of this voyage of self discovery is taking place in a near vacuum. I do not have any contact with my ex. My children are self sufficient, independent adults. I have physically removed myself from the social circle I had before. I do the same job. But being self employed, I still work in near isolation and in a different location for different clients. IOW words, there are very few if any prior "stakeholders" involved in my present day life.
Having said that, I have been forced to look within for answers. The answers I have found have not always been the answers I wanted to hear.
And, because of my relative isolation, I have also been able to analyze and critique these answers, again with little to no input from any interested parties which would bu definition involve bias of some sort. 
So the revelation of my thoughts this morning had to do with happiness or more precisely unhappiness. 
I recognize that I was not happy in my marriage and had not been for several years. While thinking about this. I came to realize that the cause of unhappiness (and its inverse happiness) comes down to two areas - the internals and the externals. 
For months I refused to, actually feared, looking to the internals. These would be my beliefs, my fears, my hopes, my expectations of how my life should be or where I wanted my life to go. 
Rather, I concentrated on the externals, of who did what to me and trying to figure out why. Some of these I was able to resolve. Some of them still made no sense.
Unhappiness occurs when the internal and the external are not alignment. Actually it comes in our response to the disalignment of the internal and the external.
When these two are not aligned. We have choices - to change our internal or to accept the external. Often it is really a combination of the two and sometimes it is simply not possible.
Changes to our internals may be so far reaching that to fully resolve them takes too much time relative to the external that they are impossible to make in the context of that external.
Accepting the external may be so out of line with the internal that real acceptance is simply not possible.
It was this combination that led to the end of my marriage. I do realize that I have some internals that I need to work on. But at the same time, there were plenty of externals that either prevented that work or were not conducive to allowing those changes to take place.
I can not exercise control over the externals. I can influence them to a small degree, to the extent that others may respond to my actions. I can exercise control over my internals and must do so if I ever hope to enjoy happiness again in this life time.

The biggest fear that we all have to conquer is the fear of facing ourselves.


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## farsidejunky

Ynot said:


> Oh well, there is no going back. I guess I'll just get over it somehow,


Ynot, here comes a 2x4.

Look at what you wrote in the quote above. Would you want to hang out with you if you have that attitude?

You biked a huge distance. Just pat yourself on the back and move forward, brother.

The longer you hold on to your victim mentality, the more you prolong your healing, brother.

ETA: Your next post sounded much, much healthier.


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## Ynot

farsidejunky said:


> Ynot, here comes a 2x4.
> 
> Look at what you wrote in the quote above. Would you want to hang out with you if you have that attitude?
> 
> You biked a huge distance. Just pat yourself on the back and move forward, brother.
> 
> The longer you hold on to your victim mentality, the more you prolong your healing, brother.
> 
> ETA: Your next post sounded much, much healthier.


I agree. I am working very hard to rid myself of victimhood. I don't even know where the feeling came from or how it came to dominate my life. We are all subject to ebb and flow of life. In my past I was able to just roll with it. Over the past few years I have allowed it to assume control over me. That is what I meant when I said facing myself was my biggest fear. Because I do realize that if I am a victim of anything it has been as a victim of my own faulty thinking.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

I suffer the same thing, brother, and know how it can simultaneously sabotage and suck the joy out of life. That is why I am so hard on others about it.


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## Ynot

farsidejunky said:


> Ynot, here comes a 2x4.
> 
> Would you want to hang out with you if you have that attitude?


THAT^ has been a realization that I have made. I can't blame my ex for quitting on me, when I had already done the same thing.


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## BoyScout

Well now you've got me thinking. I had to read your internal vs external post twice. I guess I am still torn. I think at the end of the day I come down to my issues being more about the internals. Don't get me wrong, the issues that ultimately ended my marriage were HER issues. I see that reflected in how she treated our children. That said, I became so afraid of losing what I had that I stopped challenging anything to make it better. Marriage, job? It all became, well, blah. Nothing to get too excited about. I think i was so afraid that if i did something to challenge myself, I would lose it all. 

When she left, I knew it was her issue, but I could not fathom the circumstances where a woman would want to enter into a relationship with me. The emptiness of the marriage completely killed my self confidence. Intellectually i knew that I was a good man (not bad looking, successful in business although not enjoying it, fun to be around, caring) but I felt that her leaving proved that all that was wrong. I forced myself to become the image that she created.

She's been out of the house for almost a year now. During that time, I've never gone out and sought a woman's companionship. No online dating, no trying to pick anyone up. Despite that, I've dated four women. Sisters of friends and prior acquaintances. It wasn't until the fourth one told me I was all though good things that I was positive I could not be that I started believing it.

YNOT, we have many similarities to our stories. The lesson of my story is that I was struggling to reconcile what I knew to be true with what I had been conditioned to feel. I am somewhat ashamed to admit that I could not do it on my own. A woman had to show me that what I had been thinking about myself was completely wrong. My confidence is returning now and it is not a fleeting false confidence this time. (Coincidentally, I am going through a very positive job change by taking a chance I don't think I would have done before she left). I don't tell you this to gloat. I tell you this because after reading about the soul searching you've done, I can so relate. Neither of us will achieve the perfect healing or perfection I think both have expected. Our X's would not have been happy no matter what we did. They may never be happy, but that is not our concern any longer. Don't let your feelings get in front of what you know to be true about yourself.


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## Ynot

Boy Scout, I couldn't have said it better myself. My issues are very much about the internals. I realize that I was unhappy because I could not reconcile what I knew to be true with what I had been conditioned to feel. I too had my self confidence drained away by the experience. Like you I assumed the posture of the man she created. I am just now starting to recover that confidence.


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## BoyScout

Keep the faith. I continue to be shocked at how rapidly my fortunes have changed. I tell myself that is it not because of a woman but what she has shown me about myself. I think I would have gotten here by myself, but it would have taken me much longer.


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## Ynot

I realized that yesterday was the one year anniversary of the day I moved into my apartment. 
While I still feel lost and confused and unsure of my self and my future, looking back I realize just how much I have calmed down since then. 
When I moved here, I was being driven by a whole host of negative emotions. I was angry, I was hurt, I was upset, I was scared, I had severe anxiety. I was driven by a sense of making her happy, proving her wrong, showing her I was right, etc etc. IOW words I was motivated be HER. 
In the past few months and weeks, I am finally beginning to regain my sense of self and have started thinking in terms of what do I want and pushing thoughts of HER out of my decision making process. 
I am still not completely healed, not by any stretch of the imagination
I am realizing that I played a role in the end of my marriage.
Basically I had allowed myself to give up on me. In the end I can not blame her for giving up on me as well. I was not able to love her because I had stopped loving myself. I had withdrawn into my own head. I was sullen and felt detached from life. I felt I had no purpose. I felt hopeless and just waiting to die. 
This self realization has been extremely difficult.
At the same time, I think what caused me to allow this to happen to me?
I keep coming back to the whole "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" discussion.
Was my depression fueled by her rejection of me? Did her saying " I don't even think about it (making love to me)" cause me too feel the great despair that I felt at this rejection or did this rejection make me realize that she didn't love me the way I expected (anticipated, needed, wanted, desired, take your pick) to be loved? 
Was her refusing to provide support when I was at the lowest point in my life the root of most other resentments? 
I can look at both of these events and wonder did they happen because of something prior or were they the cause of something after? And the answer is always "YES" just like the answer to the chicken and the egg.
It doesn't really matter, because we still have chickens and they still lay eggs, and chickens still come from eggs, so the point is moot.
I also know that I truly don't think she ever set out to inflict pain on me. That the reality is that she was just doing the best that she could do. And I did not set out to cause her pain either, I was simply doing the best that I could do. The real problem was that each of our bests was not good enough for the other and here I am today.
I am realizing that all of this pain will have been a horrible tragedy if I don't allow myself to grow from it.
I say I am no longer motivated by HER. But that is based on really understanding that no matter what I do, she will always "win". If I remain mired in the muck, she will be justified for leaving. If I regain my sense of self and push forward to bigger and better things, she will be justified for leaving. So the choice becomes mine. I hate living on the bottom. I want to live an exceptional life. The same exceptional life I have always desired. So I must act on my own behalf and be true to myself. It doesn't matter what SHE thinks, it is what I do to realize my potential.


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## aine

Ynot, it is still fresh, give it time. You have done so many other things that shows the type of man you are. You will get there.


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## OGNW

Ynot said:


> I also know that I truly don't think she ever set out to inflict pain on me. That the reality is that she was just doing the best that she could do. And I did not set out to cause her pain either, I was simply doing the best that I could do. The real problem was that each of our bests was not good enough for the other and here I am today.
> I am realizing that all of this pain will have been a horrible tragedy if I don't allow myself to grow from it.


That is an incredible bit of awareness and understanding. I hope to learn from it. My journey has just begun but this gives me hope for my own understanding and future growth.


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## Ynot

I just finished reading No More Mr Nice Guy and I definitely self identify as a Nice Guy. I have to say that any one who could critique the book negatively must not have ever read it in the first place. In fact some of my hesitancy to read it was the result of reading some of those criticisms. The book itself is not about hating women or become alpha male dominators, hell bent on achieving their own selfish desires. Rather it is about overcoming some of the deeply ingrained societal pressures which prevent men from becoming integrated, whole human beings. 
The Nice Guy is someone who lives for others, thru others and does so to their own detriment. This not healthy and is not the way to live your life.
Anyways, I am not posting to write a book review. But I would be interested in discussing the ideas with other who have read the book and felt it related to them (PM me)
So I started to delve deeper into the material and went out and got a book called Iron John which is discussed in NMMNG. While reading the book, I had another revelation or epiphany. I realized that so many of my relationships thru out my life had been predicated on my own image of how a relationship was supposed to be rather than on reality's true version of what a relationship actually is.
My relationships have been predicated on my fear of commitment because I didn't want to hurt some one else. This of course was based on the devastation I always felt when a relationship ended. I was afraid to commit because I didn't want to devastate anyone else (which goes back to being a Nice Guy). So whenever I met someone willing to commit to me, I would commit to them thinking that they never would have committed to me unless they had already resolved that they wouldn't be willing to devastate me.
The reality is that all relationships are based on the free will of each party to accept or accomodate the other and just as the relationship was entered into by free will so to could it be exited. The key to keeping the relationship going was on recognizing what we were willing to accept and accomodate within ourselves, but always predicated on the other side doing the same thing. At the same time we all are obligated to act in our own best interests (the first rule of survival). The relationship must stand up to this test in order to survive. In effect a relationship is about pleasing ourselves. Not greedily but in a good way in that it makes use happy.
There are times when our own happiness doesn't make the other happy and those are times when it is often beneficial to part company.
Instead I always went into a relationship thinking that it was about not hurting the other. Rather than seeking to fill my own needs, I went into it not wanting to hurt the other. 
I know this may sound so basic to some, but it truly was a flaw in my thinking that has lead me to this point in my life.


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## Ynot

Gosh! I just realized that it was just over a year ago that I started this thread. So I guess it has been the firt year of the rest of my life. 
When I think back to where I was at that time I can hardly believe that I made it. I was so confused, so lost, so upset. 
From that point I sank even farther. The holidays were the worst. I really bottomed out then. That continued until about March.
I started a relationship then. At first it was fun. Then reality set in and it ended badly. I learned a lot from it though so it wasn't all bad.
I crashed a bit after that. But not quite to the same level I had been at before.
Since then I have had a slow, unsteady climb from the second bottom. I have some good days and I have some bad days. 
I realize that I still have a lot of work to do on myself. I started running again, and more recently started working out. I have bought a motorcycle and I have started confronting my fears (riding a motor cycle being one of them)
I am still doing counseling about twice a month.
I have been reading and learning.
I have started to do things because I want to do them. Early on I did things that I thought she would approve of or I did things I thought she wouldn't approve of when I was feeling particularly angry. I still fight the urge to consider her opinion when I am deciding something, but the very fact that I recognize that is a good sign for me. I realize I no longer need her approval for anything. I am realizing that I have to do what I want and need to do for ME and for no one else.
In no way shape or form am I recovered, but I am recovering. 
I see small glimmers of hope for a better future. I see plans of action taking shape. I am thinking of where I want to head, of who I want to be. So I guess today is yet another first day of the rest of my life.


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## BoyScout

YNOT, you left out something very important. Over the last year you've helped lots of people by sharing your story. 

I know it have been extremely beneficial to me. Hang in there, we'll get better.


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## Ynot

Another small step forward - I just passed the exam to sell real estate in the State of Ohio. I took the classes about 20 months ago and never followed thru for various reasons. Most of them are no longer valid now, so I did and passed. If nothing else I have a few more letters to put behind my name.


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## Ynot

So i pass my sales exam and call the broker to set up a meeting to finalize things. After the meeting I sent the woman who referred me to him an email to thank her for the referral. This is the same woman I had planned a date with but got cancelled on because she said she wasn't ready. I told her thanks and that I would still like to get together with her to discuss her experiences and that if friendship developed that would be a bonus. She respned by saying congrats and sure she would love to meet. So I replied to let me know when. She replied Saturday or Tuesday. I said Saturday worked for me., what time. She said 6:30 at a local pub. I said OK see you then. She responded with a happy face emoticon. So I am meeting this woman tomorrow at a local pub. No expectations!
In the meantime, I have been going to a local restaurant for breakfast. The first time I went, I had a map with me. I was going to ride my motorcycle that day and was plotting out a route. The hostess told me "welcome to Ohio" I told her I wasn't new to Ohio I was just planning a motorcycle ride. She started telling me about how she likes to ride and she came back to my table about three or four times to talk about motorcycle rides, she even asked if I had OUR route picked out. I didn't think anything about it, until I went back a few says later and she recognized me and asked about the ride. Then she kept coming over and talking to me. Again, I thought she was just being nice. Then I went back a few more days later and she made a point of coming over to say hello. So I asked her if she would like to go for a ride sometime. She said sure and so I left my number. So far she hasn't called me but then I was there again and she came over to say that she had been really busy with her mom and then told me about her mom and where she lived, that she had a horse etc. She called me by name so she must have gotten the note that I had left her. I told her she didn't have to wait for a nice day to call to go for a ride, she could just call to talk because I would like to get to know her. She said she would do that - so we shall see.
In the meantime I have largely gotten off the dating sites and I am trying to meet people more naturally. .
I have been reading A LOT. Right now I am reading The Six Pillars of Self Esteem, and How to Win Friends and Influence People. I really see so much of myself in the negative examples used in both of those books. I also see so much of myself in the positive examples in those books. The times when I was happiest and most successful in life, at work and with people in general, were when I was making use of the positives in the books. More recently I feel like I had been a textbook for the negative stuff. So the books have really struck a cord with me.


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## Chuck71

I recommend Awareness by DeMello


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> I recommend Awareness by DeMello


My therapist has also suggested that book as well.


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## Mr The Other

That book is a wonderful revelation.
Spirituality is a mixture of acceptance and courage. Too often people only concentrate on the first one and even then it is more like resignation.


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## Ynot

Mr The Other said:


> That book is a wonderful revelation.
> Spirituality is a mixture of acceptance and courage. Too often people only concentrate on the first one and even then it is more like resignation.


I will get to it. Right now I am reading The Six Pillars of Self Esteem by Nathaniel Branden and How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World by Harry Browne. All of the books I have read keep coming back to the same theme - TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF FIRST. 
It is strange though because as situations appear to me in life, it seems like in short order I read a passage that covers the issue in one of the books I read. Coincidences I guess.
Last night I went to dinner with three male friends. We have been doing this now every Thursday evening for the past two months or so. I really only had one real friend where I used to live, so this is really the first time I have gotten to experience male bonding of this kind.
Tonight I went to my first professional hockey game with one of them.
I have been running and have started getting into working out with weights again and started spinning again. In two weeks I am taking scuba diving lessons.
On the dating site, I have kind of just faded off of it. I went out with a woman I met off line a few months ago, but I really don't feel anything and haven't gotten any sense she is interested either.
Tuesday would have been my 25th anniversary so I am trying like hell to be busy with things for the next week so that I don't have to think about it.
Mentally I am still trying to come to grips with making a commitment to me. I need to forgive myself and start doing things. I feel as though I am running in quick sand and not getting anywhere. But then I look back and see that that isn't necessarily true. I have done a lot of things that I would not have imagined doing a year ago. My mind is much calmer, I am not a total basket case anymore all of the time. So I guess I am making progress but not as fast as I want. I guess I just need to give myself more time.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

Your post makes you sound embattled.

What is the opposition here, Ynot?

Your own image of yourself?


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## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



farsidejunky said:


> Your post makes you sound embattled.
> 
> What is the opposition here, Ynot?
> 
> Your own image of yourself?


Yes. I don't know what I want because I don't know who I am. Right now I am doing things to discover who I am, but I haven't found anything that excites me. Like I said maybe I am just too impatient.


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## Ynot

I need to hear the truth. Please tell me if I am wrong. 

I have been struggling for months with the need to forgive myself. I feel that to do this I must first be true to myself and do the right thing. Part of being true to myself and doing the right thing is acknowledging and apologizing for my part in this mess that has become mt life.

I feel real guilt that I allowed myself to become the negative person that I had become. I feel as though I made my divorce possible by my actions. Ifeel that I am the one who dropped the ball.

I have written this letter to my ex -

I hope this letter finds you well.

I am writing you this letter to clear my conscience about what has happened between us. We had 25 years together and to allow it to come to the nothing that it has become would be truly sad, not just for us but for our children as well. They deserve better.

I hope that this letter is accepted as I intend it - a simple apology and nothing more. While I hope you read it, I have no expectation that you will. I do not expect any response.

I am ashamed of myself for the ways that I have behaved, before, during and after you decided to leave. I am very sorry.

The past year has forced me to look deep within myself, to places I had forgotten or never realized even existed.

I realize it took the two of us to make our relationship work and it took two of us to screw it up. We never really learned to communicate with each other. Neither of us was ever truly honest and open with the other and for my part I will admit that is because I was never truly honest with myself. I could not discuss how I felt about myself with you in part because I refused to admit it to myself. My insecurities about myself prevented me from being open. My fears prevented me from giving of myself fully. I am very sorry

Before you left I was already in crisis. I had come to embody practically every negative personality trait imagined. I was angry at life and I was bitter about what mine had become. I was depressed. I was negative, I was pessimistic, I allowed my failures to define me. I worried about the future, felt guilty about the past, and forgot about the present. I viewed failures as mistakes. I stopped growing. I stopped learning. I stopped living. I had given up hope and I was simply waiting to die .I realize now that those were MY choices.Had I handled my personal problems in a more positive way, perhaps there would have been fewer problems between us. But I did not know any better. I cannot blame you for giving up on me, when I had already given up on my self.

After you left me, I was very angry. I blamed you for everything that was wrong in our marriage and in my life. I felt as though every negative feeling and emption had been validated by your decision to leave. I lashed out at you. I said hurtful things to you and I acted in ways that I am ashamed of. For this I am truly sorry.

While I am sorry for thenagative way things have played out since you left, perhaps the silence and the separation was needed. I do not think I would have searched the bowels of my soul had we remained married. I do not think I would have been driven to the depths required for the real self reflection I have made were it not for the pain I have experienced. Had I not experienced the pain, I would not have experienced the growth. I hope that some day I feel gratitude for what has happened. But for now, the lessons are too new and my pain is still too fresh. 

Please know this. I fell in an out of love with you so many times over the years, that I lost track. But I never stopped loving you, I stopped loving myself. All of my actions came from the hurt of this imbalance. 

You are the mother of my children and for this I will always love you. We enjoyed many years of happiness together and I have many great memories. I thank you for those. I hope that someday I can look back at them with the joy of having had them instead of the sadness of having lost them. I am not there yet. I am not healed yet. I remain a work in progress. 

I do not think you are an evil person. I do not think that you ever set out to hurt me the way I have been hurt. You were acting in your own best interests. Perhaps had I been equally selfish, all of this could have been avoided, concluded a long time ago or perhaps worked out differently. Everyone deserves to be happy and I wish you happiness in your life going forward. 

I know that at some point we will see each other again. I simply hope that you accept my apology so that when we do meet again the bad feelings can be put aside.

I have not sent it. I am not looking for any response. I do not have any expectations of a response. I just need to know for myself, that I have made the effort to accept my part of the blame. 

Please tell me what you think


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## HeartbrokenW

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

It's fine that you wrote it.. but don't send it. She doesn't care and makes it look as though you are still living in the past. Put it in a drawer somewhere.. or burn it.. but do not mail it....


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> I need to hear the truth. Please tell me if I am wrong.
> 
> I have been struggling for months with the need to forgive myself. I feel that to do this I must first be true to myself and do the right thing. Part of being true to myself and doing the right thing is acknowledging and apologizing for my part in this mess that has become mt life.
> 
> I feel real guilt that I allowed myself to become the negative person that I had become. I feel as though I made my divorce possible by my actions. Ifeel that I am the one who dropped the ball.
> 
> I have written this letter to my ex -
> 
> I hope this letter finds you well.
> 
> I am writing you this letter to clear my conscience about what has happened between us. We had 25 years together and to allow it to come to the nothing that it has become would be truly sad, not just for us but for our children as well. They deserve better.
> 
> I hope that this letter is accepted as I intend it - a simple apology and nothing more. While I hope you read it, I have no expectation that you will. I do not expect any response.
> 
> I am ashamed of myself for the ways that I have behaved, before, during and after you decided to leave. I am very sorry.
> 
> The past year has forced me to look deep within myself, to places I had forgotten or never realized even existed.
> 
> I realize it took the two of us to make our relationship work and it took two of us to screw it up. We never really learned to communicate with each other. Neither of us was ever truly honest and open with the other and for my part I will admit that is because I was never truly honest with myself. I could not discuss how I felt about myself with you in part because I refused to admit it to myself. My insecurities about myself prevented me from being open. My fears prevented me from giving of myself fully. I am very sorry
> 
> Before you left I was already in crisis. I had come to embody practically every negative personality trait imagined. I was angry at life and I was bitter about what mine had become. I was depressed. I was negative, I was pessimistic, I allowed my failures to define me. I worried about the future, felt guilty about the past, and forgot about the present. I viewed failures as mistakes. I stopped growing. I stopped learning. I stopped living. I had given up hope and I was simply waiting to die .I realize now that those were MY choices.Had I handled my personal problems in a more positive way, perhaps there would have been fewer problems between us. But I did not know any better. I cannot blame you for giving up on me, when I had already given up on my self.
> 
> After you left me, I was very angry. I blamed you for everything that was wrong in our marriage and in my life. I felt as though every negative feeling and emption had been validated by your decision to leave. I lashed out at you. I said hurtful things to you and I acted in ways that I am ashamed of. For this I am truly sorry.
> 
> While I am sorry for thenagative way things have played out since you left, perhaps the silence and the separation was needed. I do not think I would have searched the bowels of my soul had we remained married. I do not think I would have been driven to the depths required for the real self reflection I have made were it not for the pain I have experienced. Had I not experienced the pain, I would not have experienced the growth. I hope that some day I feel gratitude for what has happened. But for now, the lessons are too new and my pain is still too fresh.
> 
> Please know this. I fell in an out of love with you so many times over the years, that I lost track. But I never stopped loving you, I stopped loving myself. All of my actions came from the hurt of this imbalance.
> 
> You are the mother of my children and for this I will always love you. We enjoyed many years of happiness together and I have many great memories. I thank you for those. I hope that someday I can look back at them with the joy of having had them instead of the sadness of having lost them. I am not there yet. I am not healed yet. I remain a work in progress.
> 
> I do not think you are an evil person. I do not think that you ever set out to hurt me the way I have been hurt. You were acting in your own best interests. Perhaps had I been equally selfish, all of this could have been avoided, concluded a long time ago or perhaps worked out differently. Everyone deserves to be happy and I wish you happiness in your life going forward.
> 
> I know that at some point we will see each other again. I simply hope that you accept my apology so that when we do meet again the bad feelings can be put aside.
> 
> I have not sent it. I am not looking for any response. I do not have any expectations of a response. I just need to know for myself, that I have made the effort to accept my part of the blame.
> 
> Please tell me what you think


----------



## Ynot

Not sure what a picture off a pile of lumber means


----------



## Lostinthought61

Ynot, i a wondering, and i sense the others here who have responded are asking the same thing, i get you placed her name at the recipient, but i question whether you wrote it to her or yourself, in order words to get it off your chest, your thoughts and feelings about your relationship from your perspective. which i am fine with and it is great to do, but i agree heartbroken, i wouldn't send it, its not getting the intent you want, it may get it off your chest but she has moved on, physical and mentally and she will not understand it. i would hold on to it, but not send it. the best thing you can do is to take everything you learned rightly and wrongly and apply it to your next relationship....be that better man that the next woman will want to hold on too forever.


----------



## Chuck71

The lumber is a 2x4..... we drop it when a poster is about to or did something whereas later 

they look back and think WTF was I thinking. Xenote is exactly right. This might have been done since

it was your anniversary recently. My DDay will be three years ago in a couple weeks. I already have

a post ready but "jic" I am waiting until then. How are your kids doing?


----------



## Ynot

That is just it, I do look back and think WTF! I really was in a tailspin BEFORE she left. I completely collapsed after she left. My only intent is to be honest with myself. I really am not looking for any response. I just want to clear the air as I know I will be seeing her at functions involving our children.


----------



## BoyScout

I am glad you wrote the letter, but nothing good would come from sending it to her. I am not sure how you would expect her to receive it and I'm guessing you don't really know. I would bet, however that you'd be disappointed.

I am sure it felt good to get all that out. Friend, hang in there. I turned the corner so fast I almost missed it. Looking back I never saw the change coming and thought it would never happen. 

In the spirit of full disclosure, Saturday marked the anniversary of my XW moving out. I simply could not let the day pass without a congratulatory text wishing her well. No response! Go figure.


----------



## Ynot

Am I missing something? I have no expectations. I just want to be able to be a man and face up to my problems. I feel like a coward hiding behind blaming her for everything. All I want to do is to be able to say I accept my part in the demise of my marriage. I am not forgiving her for her part. I am not forgetting her part. I am simply recognizing my part. I fell apart. I was weak, I failed ME.


----------



## Chuck71

When was your last IC?


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> When was your last IC?


Last week and I have another next week. I really don't have any expectations. In fact I have refused to write this letter until I got to the point of having no expectations. 
I just want to clear my own mind, so that I can face myself and say I admitted my part of the problem. I was honest. I was a man and manned up by admitting my flaws and my faults. I did not hide behind laying the blame on anybody else.
We have children together. I will be seeing her at their weddings. I have to be honest with myself before I can be honest with anybody else, especially her. How she chooses to act will be on her. But I for one, just want to be able to truthfully say that I was honest, nothing more, nothing less.
I am not trying to be argumentative. I just want to understand WHY. Convince me! Please !


----------



## Chuck71

Over the last year you have owned your POS tendencies. Every one has them. You have made strides in

changing some of them and improving others. You are only responsible for your actions.

When you love thy self... the world will follow.


----------



## Sammy64

Then don't blame her for anything, i know i understand what you are saying.. I did before my divorce was final and all i got back was

anyways i have found this on TAM, and it has helped me a lot..

Live by the saying: Life gets easier once you accept an apology you never received!


----------



## Ynot

Sammy64 said:


> Then don't blame her for anything, i know i understand what you are saying.. I did before my divorce was final and all i got back was
> 
> anyways i have found this on TAM, and it has helped me a lot..
> 
> Live by the saying: Life gets easier once you accept an apology you never received!


I don't understand, what am I blaming her for? I am merely apologizing for my part in the end of our marriage. I am not arguing, I just want to understand. I am not looking for an apology from her. I just need to get this off my chest, to man up to my actions.


----------



## HeartbrokenW

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

You got it off your chest by writing the letter. Let it end there. If you mail it, the day will come when you will regret it. Don't pick the scab on an old wound. It'll bleed.


----------



## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



HeartbrokenW said:


> You got it off your chest by writing the letter. Let it end there. If you mail it, the day will come when you will regret it. Don't pick the scab on an old wound. It'll bleed.


Again, not to argue, but please help me understand how I will regret being honest.


----------



## HeartbrokenW

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

Your ex has moved on. She doesn't care. She isn't going to want to be dragged back into the drama. It could have unwanted results from her. Just let it go. Healing has started for both you and her.. don't dredge up the past now. It will make you look weak.. and needy. The past is the past. Look towards the future and put into motion what you've learned going forward.


----------



## Adelais

Ynot, you've come a long way, and have done a lot introspection during the past year. The time of year is what is making your pain more intense. Try to hold off on the letter until after the anniversary comes and goes.



Ynot said:


> We had 25 years together and to allow it to come to the nothing that it has become would be truly sad, not just for us but for our children as well. They deserve better.
> 
> it took two of us to screw it up. We never really learned to communicate with each other. Neither of us was ever truly honest and open with the other
> 
> Before you left
> 
> After you left me,
> 
> since you left
> 
> I do not think you are an evil person. I do not think that you ever set out to hurt me the way I have been hurt. You were acting in your own best interests.
> 
> Perhaps had I been equally selfish,


Parts of the letter sound like you are blaming. Wherever you say, "We" it is blaming her. She doesn't want you to tell her what she did wrong. She will immediately recoil.

Wherever you say she "left," she will feel accused, even though it is true she left. It also makes you look weak and whiny, even though she did leave.

Even though you *say* you don't think she is an "evil person," she will take your statement as passive aggressive accusation that she is an evil person.

Where you say "Perhaps had I been equally selfish" you are telling her she was (is) selfish. Even if it is true, she will not receive that as anything but another attack.

Your letter is good as a tool for yourself, but don't send it. If you send it, you will be very disappointed by how it is received. She will not see all the personal growth you have gone through in the past year.

After her initial disgust at being attacked, she will probably decide it is not worth responding to. She might tell your children you sent her a nasty letter.

If you really want to send her a letter to explain how you are taking responsibility for your own side, then leave all mentions of her faults out of it.

If you run into her at a wedding, let it just happen, and if she wants to talk with you, then talk.


----------



## Sammy64

Ynot said:


> Am I missing something? I have no expectations. I just want to be able to be a man and face up to my problems. *I feel like a coward hiding behind blaming her for everything*. All I want to do is to be able to say I accept my part in the demise of my marriage. I am not forgiving her for her part. I am not forgetting her part. I am simply recognizing my part. I fell apart. I was weak, I failed ME.


I was referencing this point. I know i was doing the same thing, she did not want to work on things, she was the one who did not want to go to MC.. and had always put it back on me as everything was my fault..


----------



## Betrayedone

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



Ynot said:


> Again, not to argue, but please help me understand how I will regret being honest.


Geez dude.....can't you just heed the advice and let it go? You are not as advanced and in control of your emotions and destiny as you think........


----------



## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



Betrayedone said:


> Geez dude.....can't you just heed the advice and let it go? You are not as advanced and in control of your emotions and destiny as you think........


That is the point in asking. Too many people go thru life being blindly led by others. They fall into traps not of their own making and find themselves lost. If it were simply a matter of following advice would any of us be here? I want to understand what I am being told. It is part of who I am. If you don't like it, well, that is part of who you are.


----------



## Ynot

Sammy64 said:


> I was referencing this point. I know i was doing the same thing, she did not want to work on things, she was the one who did not want to go to MC.. and had always put it back on me as everything was my fault..


I am not excusing her for anything, I am just accepting my part of the blame.


----------



## Ynot

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Ynot, you've come a long way, and have done a lot introspection during the past year. The time of year is what is making your pain more intense. Try to hold off on the letter until after the anniversary comes and goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Parts of the letter sound like you are blaming. Wherever you say, "We" it is blaming her. She doesn't want you to tell her what she did wrong. She will immediately recoil.
> 
> Wherever you say she "left," she will feel accused, even though it is true she left. It also makes you look weak and whiny, even though she did leave.
> 
> Even though you *say* you don't think she is an "evil person," she will take your statement as passive aggressive accusation that she is an evil person.
> 
> Where you say "Perhaps had I been equally selfish" you are telling her she was (is) selfish. Even if it is true, she will not receive that as anything but another attack.
> 
> Your letter is good as a tool for yourself, but don't send it. If you send it, you will be very disappointed by how it is received. She will not see all the personal growth you have gone through in the past year.
> 
> After her initial disgust at being attacked, she will probably decide it is not worth responding to. She might tell your children you sent her a nasty letter.
> 
> If you really want to send her a letter to explain how you are taking responsibility for your own side, then leave all mentions of her faults out of it.
> 
> If you run into her at a wedding, let it just happen, and if she wants to talk with you, then talk.


I understand what you are saying. The letter still expresses my desire to point fingers at her, albeit more subtly than I had been doing before.
I am truly trying to just arrive at a point in my life where I can simply recognize my own faults. The first step towards solving a problem is recognizing there is one to begin with.


----------



## Ynot

Thank you all for your responses.


----------



## inarut

If all you really want is to own and recognize your faults then why do you have this strong need to send her this letter. You both made mistakes. The marriage ended and you see the part you played in that. Why does she have to see and understand this in such detail as well? It's enough that you do. This is about you and your growth not her. Are you still somehow looking for understanding, approval, acknowledgement from her? 

You will have to be in her presence and communicate because of the children you share. You don't need to bare your soul and drudge up all the past in order to have a cordial, respectful co-parenting relationship. 

You owe her nothing and do you think she really wants to hear all that or will all that you put in this letter? I hate to say it but It will make you look weak and still stuck to her. If you must say something you can send a simple text "look we've both made mistakes during our marriage. I know I have and I'm sorry for the ones I made and I've learned from them. All that matters now is the kids and that we are able to work together to give them the best we can. I'm sure we can manage that" or something like that. I don't know enough of your history or what type of relationship you have with her now but I'm sue you could work something like that in some context where it would be natural if you know what I mean.


----------



## Sammy64

Ynot said:


> I am not excusing her for anything, I am just accepting my part of the blame.


And its all good. I have been following your thread for a long time, and i think you are doing/ did well. I will keep reading as this has a lot of similarities to what i'm also going through. i think the only difference is i was the one to end my marriage, and i had check out 3 or so years before i finally pulled the plug..


----------



## Chuck71

Sammy64 said:


> I was referencing this point. I know i was doing the same thing, she did not want to work on things, she was the one who did not want to go to MC.. and had always put it back on me as everything was my fault..


Sounds very familiar. Let's see.... S64 wanted to work on things, his W said no... to justify

it, it's all S64's fault. S64 says F'it... and reflects and grows,

Around this time he gets, "Why don't you fight for me, help me, save me, where's my Fixer?"

S64 thinks .... damn.... I can't go back to that cycle ever again.

S64 was unplugged as Neo was.... Morpheus asked Neo.... -would you go back, even if you wanted to-

We all know what Neo said.....


----------



## Sammy64

Chuck71 said:


> Sounds very familiar. Let's see.... S64 wanted to work on things, his W said no... to justify
> 
> it, it's all S64's fault. S64 says F'it... and reflects and grows,
> 
> Around this time he gets, "Why don't you fight for me, help me, save me, where's my Fixer?"
> 
> S64 thinks .... damn.... I can't go back to that cycle ever again.
> 
> S64 was unplugged as Neo was.... Morpheus asked Neo.... -would you go back, even if you wanted to-
> 
> We all know what Neo said.....




Yeah, we do...

And never looked back !!!


----------



## Ynot

I really appreciate all of the feedback. I am sure that many of you are aware of how powerful our own minds can be. We are able to convince ourselves of just about anything if we allow the little voices in our heads to reverberate in the echo chamber of our minds.
Writing the letter has been a good therapy for me. Reading the feedback and comments, has allowed me to realize that I still do harbor some resentment and has allowed me to question those aspects of my thinking. 
I realize that I still have some refining to do in regards to my thoughts and feelings about what has happened and moving forward from it.
I do feel much calmer. I have much less anxiety than I had been having. Things are starting to make sense. Where as before my thoughts were disjointed and jumbled. My mental picture is starting the coalesce into some semblance of order. 
I truly had fallen off the cliff before she left. I realize that those reactions were my choices and I could have reacted differently HAD I KNOWN DIFFERENTLY OR BETTER. But at the same time those reactions were provoked by external stimuli and those were her choices. 
I have not sent that letter or any other letter. I do realize that the exercise has allowed me to clarify my thoughts and I will continue to seek greater clarity as I move forward.


----------



## Chuck71

Glad to hear.... glad to hear. When people sign up for M, your partner is "supposed" to have your back....

When you fell off the cliff... did she give you a hand? 

I'm a stickler for trust..... if I can't trust someone anymore, I'm "not there"

You have "emotional baggage" just like everyone else.


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Glad to hear.... glad to hear. When people sign up for M, your partner is "supposed" to have your back....
> 
> When you fell off the cliff... did she give you a hand?
> 
> I'm a stickler for trust..... if I can't trust someone anymore, I'm "not there"
> 
> You have "emotional baggage" just like everyone else.


I agree C. I am really trying to come to terms with the fact that she really didn't do it on purpose. As much as she just didn't really know any better. But neither did I.
It is sort of like what Samurai Jack said in his letter/ She was just following the script she had been handed, just as I was. 
Now that I realize I had just been reading a script most of my life, I have the opportunity to ad lib from here on out. Rather than attracting some one who was attracted to my script (at least for a while) I can now find some one(s) who is attracted to me and vice versa.


----------



## Pluto2

Ynot said:


> I agree C. I am really trying to come to terms with the fact that she really didn't do it on purpose. As much as she just didn't really know any better. But neither did I.
> It is sort of like what Samurai Jack said in his letter/ She was just following the script she had been handed, just as I was.
> Now that I realize I had just been reading a script most of my life, I have the opportunity to ad lib from here on out. Rather than attracting some one who was attracted to my script (at least for a while) I can now find some one(s) who is attracted to me and vice versa.


This is a huge revelation. Don't lose sight of it. 

We are all more than sums of our past, and the scripts those pasts write for us.


----------



## Ynot

Boy what a ****ty night. Travelled to Virginia to go to my nephews"s wedding. It was the first wedding I had attended since my divorce.


----------



## Sammy64

Ynot said:


> Boy what a ****ty night. Travelled to Virginia to go to my nephews"s wedding. It was the first wedding I had attended since my divorce.



What happened? or was it just the memory's ?


----------



## Ynot

Sammy64 said:


> What happened? or was it just the memory's ?


Some memories, some thoughts.

Memories of being in Richmond for my nieces' weddings, both of which my ex did the flowers for. I remember how appreciative my nieces were for the beautiful silk flowers my ex did for them, being involved in the set up, the time spent cutting curly willow branches from my yard for the weddings. Being there with my daughter listening to the plans for her (my daughter's wedding). Realizing I was there by myself
Listening to the vows and seeing the optimism in the faces of the bride and groom. Remembering having those same feelings myself and how optimistic for the future we were. Cycling thru 24 years of life together and now it is all gone.
Realizing that I will never get to walk my own daughter down the aisle since she has decided that her and er fiance are going to go to Scotland and get married on an island near the ocean there. 
Seeing all my relatives and knowing, just knowing that they were all looking at me as damaged goods. Not being able to stop from crying in self pity, even when I told myself to stop. I must have gone to the rest room or found excuses to leave about a dozen times so that no one would see me.
Listening to my older sister tell me about seeing my ex's posts on facebook. Even after I told her I didn't want to know anything about what was going on she just had to tell me how she thought my ex has gone crazy and the women she is hanging around with are just scary and then wondering what the hell she was talking about. 
Then looking around and seeing all the happiness and optimism and not feeling any of it. Wondering how long this skepticism and cynicism is going to last.
I am just getting to fVxking sick of feeling this way and wondering WTF it will stop. 
I am just so tired of not being happy. I feel like everything has been destroyed and I still feel so lost and confused. I hate feeling this self pity. 
I know that all of this is in my head, but when will it stop?


----------



## HeartbrokenW

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

I hear ya. I could have written your last paragraph and I'm coming up on 3 yrs since divorce was final. My situation is a little different. .. I have a teenager at home yet which keeps me busy. If i was all alone, I'm sure things would be worse for me. I'm super busy at work right now, plus I'm taking night classes to finish my degree. I've also got some remodeling projects in process all which help to keep me busy.

When I'm not busy.. then I have time to feel sorry for myself.. and then I get angry. . Thinking how I'm 50+ and alone. This isn't how it was supposed to turn out.

I'm a believer in everything happens for a reason.. and there must have been a reason in God's plan that my life took this turn. Maybe he has better plans for me. I can only have faith that he does. (And I'm not a super religious person.. it's hard to believe I just wrote that.) But it gets me thru. . Day by day.


----------



## Chuck71

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.... you can drive yourself crazy doing this.

You were like me... you made mistakes... none huge. You owned

yours as I did mine. My XW has yet to own hers (she did acknowledge)

but that is her boat to row. Your XW never owned her POS tendencies

and that is on her.... not you. You have to let this go or you will torture

yourself for many years to come. How would you feel if you finally "got it"

in 2020 and you think..."ibedamned i just wasted five years of my life"

You can't force your X to "own" it.... your best bet is time. I do think people

realize mistakes... some sooner than others. Her "owning it day" has

nothing to do with you. The wedding.... memories... yeah I get that.

Have you ever told your sister to not update you on XWs FB updates

unless it pertains to the children? My friends did my X but only after

they knew "IDGAF." My first wedding was about a year after D... it was

UG's friend and she was in it. Did not think one thought about WC / XW.

My concern was UGs dress was slipping off of her and I was hoping no one

would tell her.


----------



## Sammy64

I'm sorry that i even brought this up, and after reading it i know i will be there soon. I think as fathers we will have to go down this path some point in our life's, and to say that it would not bother ME, well i know better and the way you have put it out there i believe, i would be in the same boat with my emotions, the people. Was your ExW there ?

If this gets to a point were its uncomfortable please don't answer, as that would be the answer.


----------



## Ynot

Sammy64 said:


> I'm sorry that i even brought this up, and after reading it i know i will be there soon. I think as fathers we will have to go down this path some point in our life's, and to say that it would not bother ME, well i know better and the way you have put it out there i believe, i would be in the same boat with my emotions, the people. Was your ExW there ?
> 
> If this gets to a point were its uncomfortable please don't answer, as that would be the answer.


No, my ex wasn't at this wedding. It was my sister's son. My ex had done the flowers for another sister's daughters.
I really felt like I had my emotions under control. I guess part of me is upset at myself that these feelings are still so raw. It has been a year. I feel like I should be getting over this crap and starting to live again.
I really do recognize that it is over. There is no going back. The only way forward is to move forward away from my past and into my future. But damn, the thoughts just flooded my mind. Once the flood gates opened, I couldn't close them.
Family kept asking me about my daughter's wedding, because they assumed that they would be invited. After all they are family. When I told them she was going to go to Scotland and get married they were like "Oh that's great, do you have your passport?" When I told them that it was just her and her fiance and that nobody else had been invited, they said stuff like "that's so sad, nobody will be there for them" 
Prior to her to deciding to go away to get married, my daughter had always talked about having a big wedding. She talked about the father -daughter dance and seemed to be looking forward to it all. The whole idea of going to Scotland was a new one on me. I suggested they take a trip instead of having a huge blow out wedding when she asked me how much I could contribute. I had told her that I couldn't contribute anything since I have nothing now (which is true). She told me her mom was going to buy her wedding dress. I said "good, she should after she stole the money we had set aside for your wedding" which I realize I shouldn't have said. So now I feel like it is all my fault because I can't keep my head together to not fall apart about my own divorce. I keep thinking that I am the screwed up one, because I can't get past my own cynicism towards the whole idea of marriage after seeing my own crumble and fail. I still can't understand why I couldn't have just been happy and why I can't just be happy. I feel like something is wrong with me that I can't relate to the rest of the world. I don't fit in. 
On Sunday I went to one my nieces house for a family breakfast,a brother and 3 of my of my 4 sisters were there along with the two nieces and their families. I sat there thinking about how I would never get to enjoy something like that with my own family because now we are no longer a family.
All I ever wanted was to have happy healthy family


----------



## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> Woulda, coulda, shoulda.... you can drive yourself crazy doing this.
> 
> You were like me... you made mistakes... none huge. You owned
> 
> yours as I did mine. My XW has yet to own hers (she did acknowledge)
> 
> but that is her boat to row. Your XW never owned her POS tendencies
> 
> and that is on her.... not you. You have to let this go or you will torture
> 
> yourself for many years to come. How would you feel if you finally "got it"
> 
> in 2020 and you think..."ibedamned i just wasted five years of my life"
> 
> You can't force your X to "own" it.... your best bet is time. I do think people
> 
> realize mistakes... some sooner than others. Her "owning it day" has
> 
> nothing to do with you. The wedding.... memories... yeah I get that.
> 
> Have you ever told your sister to not update you on XWs FB updates
> 
> unless it pertains to the children? My friends did my X but only after
> 
> they knew "IDGAF." My first wedding was about a year after D... it was
> 
> UG's friend and she was in it. Did not think one thought about WC / XW.
> 
> My concern was UGs dress was slipping off of her and I was hoping no one
> 
> would tell her.


I told her I didn't want to know about the FB posts. Ironically enough the reason it came up was that my niece had overheard some an earlier conversation. Some one had asked me if I had heard anything else from my ex since the last big blow up in February. I told her that I had been unfriended and my other sister said she had unfriended my ex as well. My niece told me that she had unfriended my ex too. Then my other sister told me that she had no unfriended her and still saw her posts. I told her I didn't want to hear about it. I should have just walked away.


----------



## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> No, my ex wasn't at this wedding. It was my sister's son. My ex had done the flowers for another sister's daughters.
> I really felt like I had my emotions under control. I guess part of me is upset at myself that these feelings are still so raw. It has been a year. I feel like I should be getting over this crap and starting to live again.
> I really do recognize that it is over. There is no going back. The only way forward is to move forward away from my past and into my future. But damn, the thoughts just flooded my mind. Once the flood gates opened, I couldn't close them.
> Family kept asking me about my daughter's wedding, because they assumed that they would be invited. After all they are family. When I told them she was going to go to Scotland and get married they were like "Oh that's great, do you have your passport?" When I told them that it was just her and her fiance and that nobody else had been invited, they said stuff like "that's so sad, nobody will be there for them"
> Prior to her to deciding to go away to get married, my daughter had always talked about having a big wedding. She talked about the father -daughter dance and seemed to be looking forward to it all. The whole idea of going to Scotland was a new one on me. I suggested they take a trip instead of having a huge blow out wedding when she asked me how much I could contribute. I had told her that I couldn't contribute anything since I have nothing now (which is true). She told me her mom was going to buy her wedding dress. I said "good, she should after she stole the money we had set aside for your wedding" which I realize I shouldn't have said. So now I feel like it is all my fault because I can't keep my head together to not fall apart about my own divorce. I keep thinking that I am the screwed up one, because I can't get past my own cynicism towards the whole idea of marriage after seeing my own crumble and fail. I still can't understand why I couldn't have just been happy and why I can't just be happy. I feel like something is wrong with me that I can't relate to the rest of the world. I don't fit in.
> On Sunday I went to one my nieces house for a family breakfast,a brother and 3 of my of my 4 sisters were there along with the two nieces and their families. I sat there thinking about how I would never get to enjoy something like that with my own family because now we are no longer a family.
> All I ever wanted was to have happy healthy family


I get your last paragraph.... oh he!! I do. Growing up my mom's parents had huge get-togethers about

every third weekend. I wanted three kids.... kinda like what you wanted. Mom and her siblings would 

rotate where the get togethers would be. I miss those.... after grandpa died, everyone met at

granny's only. When she died, game over. Hasn't been one since. That is going on 30 years.

UGs family had these maybe once every 4-6 weeks.... I felt a bit weird attending them at first.

Then I felt quite at home.... her family had crazies just like mine did!

But you feel partially at fault for your D getting M overseas. You were a Co-D when you were M....

You carried the weight of an army. Let go of that dude... NO ONE can accomplish that.

Kids are more thankful of their parents raising them right as they grow older.....

You raised two kids, provided for a family of four and from what you said earlier, with little help.

There are hundreds of females on TAM who would have loved to have M a guy like you....

Instead they M men who were abusers, serial cheaters, deadbeats, and won't help care for

their children after D. But they sure as schit will zero in on a new female and blow their $$ on them.

You're a better man than you give yourself credit for. Do you have certain places you go to deeply "reflect?"


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## Ynot

Chuck71 said:


> I get your last paragraph.... oh he!! I do. Growing up my mom's parents had huge get-togethers about
> 
> every third weekend. I wanted three kids.... kinda like what you wanted. Mom and her siblings would
> 
> rotate where the get togethers would be. I miss those.... after grandpa died, everyone met at
> 
> granny's only. When she died, game over. Hasn't been one since. That is going on 30 years.
> 
> UGs family had these maybe once every 4-6 weeks.... I felt a bit weird attending them at first.
> 
> Then I felt quite at home.... her family had crazies just like mine did!
> 
> But you feel partially at fault for your D getting M overseas. You were a Co-D when you were M....
> 
> You carried the weight of an army. Let go of that dude... NO ONE can accomplish that.
> 
> Kids are more thankful of their parents raising them right as they grow older.....
> 
> You raised two kids, provided for a family of four and from what you said earlier, with little help.
> 
> There are hundreds of females on TAM who would have loved to have M a guy like you....
> 
> Instead they M men who were abusers, serial cheaters, deadbeats, and won't help care for
> 
> their children after D. But they sure as schit will zero in on a new female and blow their $$ on them.
> 
> You're a better man than you give yourself credit for. Do you have certain places you go to deeply "reflect?"


I think that is an issue that I am having at the moment. I have been unable to find a place or a time to zone out productively. In my past I had hobbies and activities I could do that allowed me to make my mind quiet. While my conscious mind concentrated on the activity itself, it allowed my subconsious to resolve issues in my life based on my most base inner self's program with no static from the world. Simple things like cutting grass, woodworking, pulling weeds from the garden, tinkering with old engines. Now I don't have those activities any longer and I have been unable to find suitable replacements. I have considered learning to play an instrument, tinkering on my motorcycle, taking some classes but I just haven't found my activity yet.


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## Ynot

So I have had the better part of a week to settle down and get over my being upset. I guess I am finally starting to understand what it means to be gentle with yourself, to practice forgiveness and being patient with yourself. I understand that there will be triggers. Sometimes I won't see them coming, others time I will but will have to fight the urge to give into them. Other times even if I see them, I will still fall. 
I still feel like I am on a roller coaster. Except now instead of continuously being in darkness, there are peaks of light and these peaks of light come more often and more easily than before. I still find myself plunged into darkness pretty often. The times when I fall into the trap of blaming myself, hating my life, hating myself and dwelling on the past. But I recover much more rapidly than I did before. Instead of lingering for days and weeks, the darkness only lasts for minutes or hours at the most. Then I am able to recognize and accept where I am and start thinking of the future.
Next week I take a scuba class. Today I started checking into flying lessons. Once the weather gets nice I want to check out hang gliding. I've been slowly figuring out some things I want to do. Things to take up my time. Things that interest me and make me interesting.
Since I got back I have gotten buried with work.I looked at two condos yesterday. I looked at three properties today. I have to look at two tomorrow. One more on Monday and then two more to schedule. Now I have to write the reports. Someday when the money comes, life will be a little easier.
My daughter told me that her Scottish wedding is completely her idea and something she has always wanted to do. She says it will be a grand adventure and I agree! She was posting about it last night on FB. So at least I have a few Christmas present ideas for her and her fiancee. Now to worry about my son and his fiancee. They invited me down to NC for Christmas as they will both be working over those days and won't make it back here then. I don't know if I want to go. OTOH I could find something beyond where they live and use their place as a stopover on my way there. Maybe hang gliding? I don't know.


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## Ynot

The Fairy Tale
I have been doing a lot of reading and came upon a statement that really struck home with me: "No one is coming" No one is coming to save me, I have to save myself.
That statement got me thinking about rescue fairy tales. These work both ways and are very related IMO. I have come to realize that much of my marriage was predicated on the White Knight fairy tale. I had come to the rescue of the damsel in distress - recently divorce single mom with young child working two jobs barely making it and then along came me to save the day. It was the perfect opportunity for the White Knight!
Throughout our marriage I continued to engage in the same fantasy. Raised a son that wasn't mine as my own, provided food and shelter to the family, did without in order that they could have, etc. All the while all I ever wanted was to be recognized as the savior and be given my just dessert.
In the end that fantasy left me pretty much spent. Once the rescue is complete, what purpose does one serve? Towards the end I was done. I had given up all hope and had largely given up on myself. I had no further purpose on earth
After she left, I have spent the past year engaged in the opposite form of that same fantasy, waiting for her to come and rescue me, since, you know, I deserve it for all the good things I had done over the years.
Even after I "accepted" my ex was gone, I have looked to potential partners through the eyes of the White Knight, hoping that some effort on my part to take care of some problem on their part would allow me to get my foot in the door enough to gain their gratitude and affection.
The problem is, is that it is all a fairy tale. It is not a healthy way to live or a healthy way to engage another human being.
Nobody is coming to rescue me. I cannot rescue anybody else. I must rescue myself.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

That is a great post, brother.

You know it. But do you actually believe it yet?


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## Ynot

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*



farsidejunky said:


> That is a great post, brother.
> 
> You know it. But do you actually believe it yet?


It is the reality that is dawning on me. It is one of those things that slowly expands in your mind until it pushes out some other thoughts. I keep peeling off layers of the onion and uncovering new things about myself.


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## tornado

I think a lot of men suffer from the white knight problem, and I believe it is a problem. I know lots of people who do and I believe I would have the same problem if I were single. The problem is, trying to save someone or bettering someone is a trap. First your starting a relationship with someone who has what you consider a substantial problem, then like you say if you do "save" them from themselves the relationship loses meaning. You must be careful becoming involved with people who are dysfunctional, you probably can't help or change them.


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## Ynot

So my latest version of reality -
I was unhappy the last two or three years of my marriage. A lot of it was due to being unhappy about how I was being treated. A lot of that treatment was a result of her not being happy. A lot of her unhappiness was a result of prior acts on my part, which were a result of prior acts on her part and the spiral continues to before we ever met. Lot's of unresolved issues that were never discussed, but often argued over. A mutual inability to truly be open and honest and even more importantly accepted or dealt with. Instead issues just lingered, placed on the back burner while more pressing matters were dealt with. The end result two unhappy people, with no clue how to communicate with the other and too many foundational unresolved issues.
The fact that we held it together for 24 years is a real accomplishment. 
I wish I had known then, what I know now. How differently I would have handled things. It probably would not have turned out any differently, anyways.
Now I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I no longer have her to blame for me not having what ever it is that I want. A more exciting sex life? All I have to do is look for it. A more successful financial life? All I have to do is take care of my business. The workshop I always desired? All I have to do is make it happen. Someone who wants to be with me? All I have to do is find them. Someone who will love me for who I am? All I have to do is look. 
Have I completely accepted all of this? No, not yet. That little voice in my head that tells me I should feel guilty for forsaking my wife when I go out with another women or do something that she wouldn't approve of, is still there. It is becoming less loud and I am gaining the ability to quiet it when I actively make the effort, but it is still there. Hopefully it will eventually disappear as new habits of selfishness take root as I continue to place my needs ahead of anyone else's.
That is not to say I intend to become a greedy bastard. Rather it is that I will finally learn that I have real value in this world. That my needs are valid and must be met in order for me to be happy. That I cannot love another until I love myself. That I finally start to live by the Golden Rule of Do Unto Others as You Would Have Done Onto You.
In my past I thought this entailed making sacrifices for others, but I would never want others to sacrifice for me. I would do without so others may have, but I would never have expected that from others. On the flip side, if I wasn't honoring my self and my needs, how could I expect that of others? The reality of it was that I was attempting to fill the needs of others and then expecting them to fill my needs in return. The unmet expectations of this untruth was the core of my unhappiness.
The Golden Rule is not a covert contract with others as much as it is an unbreakable contract with yourself. My new reality.


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## Pluto2

I think our own personal reality changes throughout our life and we all need to accept that. The problems we create for ourselves seem to happen when we forget life changes everything, including ourselves. Your new reality sounds much healthier than your fairy tale.


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## Chuck71

My ex gf from 2013-14 M a guy because she wanted to "save him" back in the 1990s. How do you think that

worked out? He ended up leaving her and went back to his XW.... 

Maybe being a KISA worked a century ago. TAM is littered with KISAs and their stories are not much

different. I run into a lot of women who claim to have their crap together but after talking to them,

the last twenty years was filled with..... crap. I refuse to be a test subject. 

Damaged people...... damage people. In many cases, they don't mean to. But it's all they know.


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## Ynot

Today represents the one year anniversary of my divorce from my ex. Over the past year I have grown so much. But even more importantly is that I also realize that I have so much more to grow. I don't want to just survive in my post-divorce life. I want to thrive. I want to reach new heights, unlimited heights, in my self development. My divorce, my married life, my past, were all just marking points on my voyage of self discovery. Everyday brings new opportunities to explore the universe and learn something new. 
I am done posting on this thread. Instead, when I post I intend to focus on experiences, observations and growth rather than regret and stagnation. I need to evolve my thinking. 
Writing and the comments and criticisms it inspires, help me to clarify my thoughts.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: The First Day of the Rest of MY Life*

I agree. You have beat yourself up enough. Love yourself more. Build on you strengths.


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## Chuck71

Slow n steady..... set your own pace. I'm two years ahead of you.

To me... my D was 11-3-12, my DDay. According to the courts... it was 2-1-13.

I care more of what I think... than the courts. Read my posts here from Nov-Dec 2012, then read Nov-Dec

2013. That was my year mark. You're "on pace" with most others after a D.

I have followed your thread over a year... you have made strides.


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## fertileground

Hi,
I think you were right in not sending your ex the letter. Yesterday, my STBX gave me a long letter, and although there were some apologies in it, all I heard were the criticisms and the condescending air. Parts of it made me sad, and other parts angered me. Neither of those were feelings I needed in going through this process. It may have been something he wanted to get off his chest, but it REALLY was not something I needed in my life.


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