# Married and lonely...depressed



## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

So, here I am up a 4:30 am, alone in my bed as usual. Thinking when did all this happen to make my wife emotionally vacuous and hateful towards me. I get up in a cold sweat after 15 years of marriage, in an empty bed, dark room. When I come down stairs, I get comments "Why are you here"

The abusive MIL has practically moved in, (hasn't gone home in months) All she does is scream and b**ch all day and verbally attacks me all day when I'm home. She is clearly a mentally ill woman with her own divorce baggage, and has totally infected and brainwashed my wife. I never thought it would get that far. We always seemed to make up after arguments, and now its a marriage on life-support.

The MIL has so made her daughter dependent on her emotionally that the husband "me" has no emotional purpose for her anymore. The MIL treats her like a little girl, constantly criticizing her, how the kids are raised, how the house is messy (which it is not), and how I am scum of the earth and the biggest mistake of her life. She doesn't see this, and will NEVER defend me, except an occasional ma, don't yell at him now, for the kids sake, wait til they're in school - or something like that.

The MIL is making me pay for her failed marriage, and has all but destroyed it. To the point that I want to get separated.
I never ever ever wanted this, but I cannot function here anymore, and the kids hear all sorts of crap about their "mental" father and how he is not even a man, someone worthy of 24/7 ridicule and attack. I sit quietly 99% of the time, and the MIL goes into her tirades and threats.

I blame my wife who apparently fears her or has some unhealthy bond with her. The MIL has truly replaced me in a sick way. She sleeps on the couch next to her, or in my kids' room. When the MIL threatens she's going home, I PRAY THAT IT'S TRUE!! The other day, she packed all her bags, and wife was taking her home, I thought it was a MIRACLE. Then later I get a call from my wife yelling at me that it's my fault she wanted to go home, and it's my fault wife doesn't feel well, and that she needs her mother. She begged her to come back, and she's lonely without her mom, and no one to talk too. And where does that leave me?? 

All this MIL does is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, MISERABLE WORDS COME out of her mouth. Besides the verbal abuse I get, it's this can't be done, that can't be done. That's bad, this is bad.
She watches the neighbors all day, and observes other people and tells her daughter, look that's a real man, or look how hard that man is working, yada yadaa

My wife, the care-free independent spirit I met all those years ago, is gone. I don't know when I lost her. My wife has become a carbon-copy of her mother's brain. And is forcing the scenario where she ends up divorced like her mother was. She used to live with her grandmother (MIL's mother) who was the most wonderful person in the world who I treated like a mother, and she treated me like a son. Before she died, she always told my wife to "be" with your husband, and always was for the "family" as a whole. SHe is probably rolling in her grave, at what is going on here. In fact, towards the end years, she told her own daughter MIL, to bud out of their lives.

Now, their is no privacy, no intimacy, no meaningful conversation, not even a kind human word - ever. She'll talk to me about "business" - ie kids, school, bills, etc. But that's it. If the conversation gets too involved, the MIL cuts it off.

I am in tears every night, think I'm having panic attacks and can't breathe at night. I am/was always a jolly positive person with a sense of humor, but have lost that side of me, and totally depressed.

The excuse that the MIL is here, is bc I have a special needs ODD kid (who of course soaks everything up like a sponge), and successfully pits everyone against each other. When he does that to me "Granma said this about me", I ignore it as an "adult" should do. When he says "Dad said x or y about Mom or MIL", they swallow it hook line and sucker, and come at me with guns blazing. 


I would have ran away a long time ago, but 1. have nowhere to go. I am isolated with no friends and estranged relatives, 2. I always promised myself I wouldn't be like WIFE's father who left his wife (MIL) and 2 kids, 3.financially she has control to all the accounts. 4.Every one I encounter tells me how I have nerves of steel, a good guy (MIL and WIFE call me evil, enemy in the family, and monster), and that any guy would have already left. However, I don't feel heroic anymore about sticking it out. I am growing tired of the arguing the fighting, the confused kids not knowing what side to take (they use them in their pointless war against me). The MIL tells ME to leave "forever", not to mention wishing bad things to happen to me. And they call me mental??

They have abdicated my authority here, show me no respect, and then when the kids act out, tell me to "be a father". Here's irony, they observe other people, and lament how other families have a bigger support system and a lot of relatives (we actually have a lot, but they are either estranged or into their own lives), and at the same time, destroying the "father" me, and in effect forcing my kids NOT to have a dad in their lives much longer.

I really really planned for a life-time marriage, and companionship, but cannot sustain life like this anymore. I feel so bad for my kids. I love them so much, and wouldn't put it past the Wife and MIL to lie thru their teeth to make sure I don't get to see them if I leave. That would be the end of me for sure.

Also, I am lonely, hungry for companionship and intimacy, wishing my wife from years ago would return (probably never). 

Everyone understands how this toxic MIL has to go. Even her own friend said it, every article. But my wife is stubborn and thinks everything she's doing is right, and can't live without her mommy. My wife WILL NOT listen, doesn't get signs, and cannot reason with her. If I dare touch the HOLY MOTHER, she will attack me.

Please help THanks


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Maybe take wife somewhere out of the house for a one on one talk.


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks, rush. It's beyond that. If I get into the subject it goes nowhere, and its I'm attacking her mother. When we are out together (rarely these days) or always with the kids, I am happy to have her presence, and quiet, that I don't want to disturb the moment :-( She refuses marriage counseling and thinks it's a joke


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Where is mother in laws husband?


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

rush said:


> Where is mother in laws husband?


As I said, they're divorced. But he is the PT father and grandfather. My kids want to see him more, but he is a self-loving fool. I actually WISH he was more involved in our lives. I totally understand NOW, why he left this woman. Wife hates her dad. or pretends to.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't see many choices here, wife will not get counseling, no one else to intervene mother in law. Your choices are limited here in my opinion, either you throw mother in law out or you may have to leave.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

That sounds like a horrible existence. Kick your MIL out. If your wife hates you for it, does that make anything worse than it already is? Your children shouldn't be subjected to her. Do what's right for them and get her out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I agree, its your house too, whatever the result she has to go!


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

I feel like I want to embarrass the MIL with all her extended relatives. Her own son wants nothing to do with her. I know if this marriage ends, they will burn the phone line up on how it was all my fault, and mentally ill.

She has become very suspicious and paranoid that everyone, and ME is out to get her. Setting her up, etc. etc. It's unbelievably tragic how this has played out.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I could not put up with that torment, and the kids need not be in it either, my opinion.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

You need to fight back & stand up for yourself. Your children need to see you as a strong man. Fear is keeping you in your place. I assume you are the homeowner or the lease holder of your home. Start talking in legal terms. Your wife may never come back but your kids need to see you stop taking the bullying silently asap.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Grow a pair and kick the MIL out. Then do the 180 and see if your wife responds to that. If not, you're still better off.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

hypothetical.......if you gave your wife ultimatum - either she goes or I do. What would be her response........if she thinks you're serious.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

This is BS. It is ultimatum time for your wife. Your Mom has 24 hrs. If you do not like it you can go with her. What do you mean your wife controls the bank account.

Look OP every once and a great while my wife will begin putting me down and issuing decrees that are insulting and disrespectful. It was only a couple of years ago I was like you, confused and perplexed. What changed it was when I began to let her know that she was free to put any of her plans in motion but I would be gone the second that happened. Her proverbial jets are quite cool these days.

Quit putting up with this crap. NOW!


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Mannpieces,

If your post is for real, then I have little sympathy for you. I read the threads you started back in January and April, and the situation was identical so you have been dealing with this for almost a year at least. Yet you have done nothing about it and have not listened to anyone's advice here.

1. Tell the MIL to move out NOW. If she refuses, then call the police. If your wife wants to leave with her, don't stop her. 

2. Get at least 50% control of your finances. If you are the breadwinner, change the account your salary is going in to. 

3. Go to MC. Your wife thinks marriage counseling is a joke, but ask her what does she have to lose? She certainly doesn't seem happy now. 

4. Use your cell phone or tablet or whatever to record some of these tirades and insults that your wife and MIL are throwing at you. Might come in handy later.


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## WayUpNorth (Dec 14, 2013)

When she had her bags packed, you should have tossed them in the car and hauled her sorry ass away.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

mannpieces said:


> They have abdicated my authority here,


Pretty ironic because "abdicate" means you give it up yourself, not that it has been taken away from you. 

That's exactly true - you abdicated, but are blaming them for your own resignation. They have no respect for you because you have not shown that you respect yourself. 

You don't have to scream or get violent in delivering ultimatums. What matters is that you keep to your word. Fine, she wants to live with mommy. Then mommy can support her, give her all the sex she needs, and take care of her in her old age.


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## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

:iagree:

Listen friend, I'm so sorry you are going through this but you are the only one who can take control of your situation and turn it around. Enduring it silently is not the answer. Running away from it is not the answer either. 

Believe it or not, your wife wants you to take the lead in your home and lead your family. You don't have to do that in an over-aggressive or mean-spirited way but you do have to be intentional about it. 

Good luck. I hope things get better for you.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Get rid of the MIL who is brainwashing your wife. Its your home. Be the man of your house, and tell them your not putting up with no more of their crap.


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

Yes Theseus, I have been suffering like this for a long time now, with a lot of stress and hope that things would cool down. As you can tell from my other posts, we've been struggling with a difficult child and his needs as well. This constant struggle and my other kids have kept me here - my wife knows damn well she cannot deal with my son by herself - I am practically with my son ALL the time. She assigns him to me, and my other kids want daddy time too. 

I've been seeing a counselor, and advises me to leave, and I am seriously considering this, because I cannot be an effective father, while the wife and MIL are disrespecting me. Counselor says he would back me up 100% Then when the kids go wild, she expects me to step in and do something about it. They have belittled me so, and now criticize me further that I'm ineffective as a father. As if the mother and MIL are perfect parents.

Yes I know I must have failed myself somewhere, and disappointed my wife. But I have always been there for her and the kids. 

If I recorded all this, I understand none of it is admissible in court.

After 3 hours of shoveling snow, instead of any appreciation, and a warm bowl of soup, they yelled and screamed and threatened me all day. They even tried to goad me and set me up to yell and scream to record me and make up lies and threaten me. For what? 

They are bitter and angry and my wife has went off the handle. I mean how would you feel if your own mother told you day in day out what a big mistake you made by marrying him, and he's not a real man, and doesn't love her, and is an enemy in the home. etc. etc. And they constantly stare out the window looking at other families and neighbors how luck this one is, and how this one works hard, and that one is a good father, etc. etc. All the while wishing me to die, and tell me how I'm going to be a lonely old man and commit suicide.

I can't understand where the sheer hatred comes from. On the rare occasion I get my wife out and separated from her mother, she becomes positive and more happier. It's almost she needs to hate me because mommy advised her to do so. Then when things get crazy and chaotic, the MIL tells her, run away, sell the house, get away from everybody and she'll be healthy. and that she'll come with her and leave ME with the children by myself. MIL is an overbearing arrogant uneducated woman who has fully inserted herself here. She argues with me about doing dishes. Criticizes everything big and small. And then I when I tell her to shut the [email protected]#$k up, the wife jumps in and says, starting with my mother again?? Its surreal.

Anyway, I'm not fooling myself into thinking things can/will get better. I need logistical help to get myself out of here - can you imagine HOW BAD it must be for a loving dedicated father who loves my kids more than my own life to feel this way??

I also wake up in cold sweat at night by my lonely self in my bed with no intimacy and no one to talk to. The MIL is clearly mentally ill, but they have empowered each other to make my life a living hell, kids be damned.

I'm obviously concerned that they will stop at nothing to make me suffer that I won't see my kids by saying I am abusive and mentally sick. Only from the suffering I've endured.

I spent the whole day in the basement, and of course, all the kids were with me. One of my daughter's is so sad and asked if mommy and daddy are getting divorced. It breaks my heart that my wife and MIL hate ME more than they love my kids.


Anyone I've ever told or knows me tells me I'm a good person. I never hurt anyone in my life or did anything so bad. It's almost if this is some powerful curse (believe it or not). I don't know when I lost my wife. Once her grandmother, who was our everything passed away, it was all down hill. She kept things family oriented and loved us all. Now she's gone, and so is my marriage.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mannpieces said:


> On the rare occasion I get my wife out and separated from her mother, she becomes positive and more happier..


Why are YOU planning to leave instead of kicking out the MIL? MIL needs to go!!!


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Yes ! Why dont you tell your wife " i want your mother out " do it before i plan to have u arrested or kicked out by police !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

Fleur de Cactus said:


> Yes ! Why dont you tell your wife " i want your mother out " do it before i plan to have u arrested or kicked out by police !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, the house is not in my name. I made a lot of mistakes thinking my marriage would last forever. I am a fool. My wife was never like this when she was with the grandmother. 
This morning I didn't even walk out of my room yet, as hear yelling and threats about me. I am trying to get out the door. The kids, smarter than they give them credit for, are saying things completely on their own and saying I brainwashed them. Didn't even say a word about them. Actually saying things they've heard said about me by wife and MIL. MIL is threatening ugly war- you see this is the war she never had with her ex-husband, and I am being made to suffer and pay in his name. It's pretty sick. I started even telling the FIL about this, but he is complete opposite won't get involved if his life depended on it. He just nods in agreement. I need a lot of support here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bushman1972 (Dec 30, 2013)

mannpieces said:


> So, here I am up a 4:30 am, alone in my bed as usual. Thinking when did all this happen to make my wife emotionally vacuous and hateful towards me. I get up in a cold sweat after 15 years of marriage, in an empty bed, dark room. When I come down stairs, I get comments "Why are you here"
> 
> The abusive MIL has practically moved in, (hasn't gone home in months) All she does is scream and b**ch all day and verbally attacks me all day when I'm home. She is clearly a mentally ill woman with her own divorce baggage, and has totally infected and brainwashed my wife. I never thought it would get that far. We always seemed to make up after arguments, and now its a marriage on life-support.
> 
> ...


Are you me? The synchronicity of your post and my life is like looking in the mirror. Separate beds. To quote one of my favorite songs: Reboot of NIN by JC:
Johnny Cash - 'Hurt" - YouTube


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

Bushman1972 said:


> Are you me? The synchronicity of your post and my life is like looking in the mirror. Separate beds. To quote one of my favorite songs: Reboot of NIN by JC:
> Johnny Cash - 'Hurt" - YouTube


Are you for real Bushman? I'm really sorry to hear anyone going thru what I am. I don't wish it on my worst enemy. 
We can connect and share misery, but probably won't do either of us good. Except maybe to compare notes. Where are you located. (Generally). Not down under as your name suggests?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> Please help THanks


I only have this advice, it's free, and probably worth a little less than you paid for it. 

Grow a pair. 

This is YOUR house. Tell MIL to GET OUT DO NOT COME BACK. Period. If she won't leave, call the police and have her removed. Never on earth should you allow ANYONE in your home to behave that way. And it's NOT TOO LATE to set that rule now.

Then tell the wife you fell in love with her years ago, and she with you, and you want _that_ wife back. And mean it. 

They are stomping all over you, treating you with immense disrespect, and you are not even respecting yourself - which is 90% of the problem in the first place. 

There's a lot of stuff here on how to be "a man", which has nothing to do with machismo or misogyny, but rather, how to be a whole, healthy person who is male - and much is implied by that "maleness", including your relationships with women. 

YOU decide to put your household and marriage back together. I suspect your wife will go right along with that, if you follow some very good advice given here by far more qualified people than me.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

mannpieces said:


> Ok, the house is not in my name. I made a lot of mistakes thinking my marriage would last forever. I am a fool. My wife was never like this when she was with the grandmother.
> This morning I didn't even walk out of my room yet, as hear yelling and threats about me. I am trying to get out the door. The kids, smarter than they give them credit for, are saying things completely on their own and saying I brainwashed them. Didn't even say a word about them. Actually saying things they've heard said about me by wife and MIL. MIL is threatening ugly war- you see this is the war she never had with her ex-husband, and I am being made to suffer and pay in his name. It's pretty sick. I started even telling the FIL about this, but he is complete opposite won't get involved if his life depended on it. He just nods in agreement. I need a lot of support here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Support from us on here isn't going to help... You need to put into action what you already know you need to do. We can't do that for you.

C


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you employed?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Get a restraining order on MIL in my opinion. Force her to get out. Talk to a lawyer.

Don't mean to make light of your situation but when you describe your wife and MIL, it brings to mind the movie The Whole Nine Yards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

The mother in law needs to move out now. 

Get your wife alone and talk to her about it. Tell her how your feeling and that the MIL needs to move out.

Wouldn't hurt to get a little evidence of how she treats you just in case.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mannpieces said:


> Ok, the house is not in my name. I made a lot of mistakes thinking my marriage would last forever.


Who owns the house?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i remember when my own mother was toxic like that. she was absolutely miserable to be around. eventually, she started getting dangerous to be around. 

when i started dodging butcher knives, i realized that none of it had anything to do with me. it was all in her own ****ed up head. 
now, standing up to her was the hardest thing for me to do, she was my mother after all. so i took a recording device and recorded her screaming at me while i did the dishes, laundry, cleaned etc, for three hours one night, throwing stuff at me, etc. 

i planned on hooking it up to the speakers on a continuous loop and let her listen to it, hoping that she would realize how terrible she was acting. instead, i listened to it a couple times and let it sink in that she was completely in the wrong. i was extremely pissed. after that, leaving was easy. i just told her i refuse to live like that and vanished. 

it scared the crap out of her, she finally took a good look at herself, freaked out and called the police because she was thinking about suicide. they baker acted her, treated her, got her into counseling, etc. 
she is a totally different person today.
doing everything "right" did nothing to help her. 
standing up for myself when i knew i was right did.

if you dont do something, your marriage is doomed and your wife is going to be miserable. your children will grow up split between you and her, they will be confused and will likely grow up unbalanced. 
everything you love in life will go down the drain and the lives of those you love are being destroyed. what you are doing now is watching it happen while doing nothing about it.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

You know what you need to do. 

If you completely refuse to make a stand for yourself then do it for your kids. At least they will be in a loving environment 50% of the time. If you won't do it for your kids... well, there's not much I can say to that.


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

As'laDain you are completely right!! Yes 41362 I know what I need to do, but I need to get my ducks in a row. It continues to this minute. I am happy that I am home with my kids, and the wife, MIL took off for several hours. I try to so little, bc EVERY word is turned against me - even hi, good morning, etc. Yesterday, my daughter sat on my lap and hugged me, and the MIL gave a dirty look and said what would she know any better. And I'm an abusive mental person. :-( 
Anyway, I advised with a family lawyer, and he said NOT TO MOVE OUT, as I would lose any legal advantage to see the kids, bc she can claim abandonment. Damned if I do, damned if I don't Please advise on that! Thanks for staying supportive - even if some of you give me a swift kick in my ASS. Ironically, I started telling my FIL about his ex-wife


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh, and As'laDain , its HER mother, not mine. I already dealt with my mom years ago, and is not really part of our lives. But she could only dream of the damage that the MIL has done to this family. I don't think my wife understands what she's doing. Theres no point in reasoning with her anymore, she has become highly suspicious and paranoid and I am enemy #1.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> Oh, and As'laDain , its HER mother, not mine. I already dealt with my mom years ago, and is not really part of our lives. But she could only dream of the damage that the MIL has done to this family. I don't think my wife understands what she's doing. Theres no point in reasoning with her anymore, she has become highly suspicious and paranoid and I am enemy #1.


Way to go on COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF THE POST!!!!!!!!! That's actually kind of amazing in a way, and completely predictable in another sadly. The point is you NEED TO STAND UP, FOR THE SAKE OF EVERYONE INVOLVED! You're not doing anyone any favours by continuing in this toxic environment, not even the MIL! Stop it. Today. It is your choice to let it all slide. Call a hotline for abused spouses if you must.

Why don't you tell us exactly what the situation is with the house. Who's name is on what (and realize, that's only a starting point, the system can look at the reality rather than the paper), who pays for what, when was it bought, why were things setup the way they are, etc, etc, etc. give detailed info to get detailed answers.

More importantly, what are you afraid of? You refuse to act on your own behalf, on your wife's behalf, on your children's behalf? Why? What could be worse than what you are living with now?


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Way to go on COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF THE POST!!!!!!!!! That's actually kind of amazing in a way, and completely predictable in another sadly. The point is you NEED TO STAND UP, FOR THE SAKE OF EVERYONE INVOLVED! You're not doing anyone any favours by continuing in this toxic environment, not even the MIL! Stop it. Today. It is your choice to let it all slide. Call a hotline for abused spouses if you must.
> 
> Why don't you tell us exactly what the situation is with the house. Who's name is on what (and realize, that's only a starting point, the system can look at the reality rather than the paper), who pays for what, when was it bought, why were things setup the way they are, etc, etc, etc. give detailed info to get detailed answers.
> 
> More importantly, what are you afraid of? You refuse to act on your own behalf, on your wife's behalf, on your children's behalf? Why? What could be worse than what you are living with now?


I DID NOT miss the point. I've stood up before and it breaks down in embarrassing screaming heard in a quiet neighborhood. The neighbors already talk about us. The kids get upset in the corner , and my odd kid pours gasoline on the fire and acts out in bad ways. And the "women" start using the kids to further their war. "Remember when your father did this, or that...he doesn't really love you". It gets even uglier. I don't want to sit in jail based on a pack of lies. Cops immediately take the side of the women and let the courts sort it out. I already know this. I prefer to get the hell out quietly. But now I am waiting for a new project work. And have to figure WHERE to go. 
Now YOU missed my point when I stated I consulted an attorney who said NOT to move out or leave bc it will weaken my case. What am I to do? Honestly, if I let loose, wouldn't anyone here want to "take care" of the MIL?
The "HOUSE" is in my wife's name. I thought I made that clear. 
There is more that I will NOT write on a public forum. I came here for understanding and share my tragic circumstances. I agree with most of what everyone says, know what needs to be done, but their are logistical concerns and complications. I do thank everyone for replies. I'm trying to keep it together for the kids sake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Do you work? Only reason I ask is because you mentioned that your MIL constantly points out examples of hard working men. Is she resentful that you do not work outside the home?

Let me make it clear, it's none of her business what you do. That's between you and your wife.

You really need to have a conversation with your wife about WHEN your MIL will be leaving. Not if. When.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

You should defend yourself without causing more arguments

"do not say that in front of my children and keep what you think of me to yourself"

The last thing you want is your children to think this is some kind of normal and perpetuate it later in life.

Love your children and show love for them as often as possible.

If you leave or end up separating or whatever a close bond with the kids will be essential.

what your MIL is doing is abuse. Pure and simple mental abuse. Remove the problem and the abuse goes away.

If your wife does not like it she can go too.

At least at that point you know where you stand and where your wife's allegiances are.

Stand up, announce your intentions, tell the MIL the locks on the house are changing in 48 hours and follow through. She is a disruption to your family and truthfully a disgrace.


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Do you work? Only reason I ask is because you mentioned that your MIL constantly points out examples of hard working men. Is she resentful that you do not work outside the home?
> 
> Let me make it clear, it's none of her business what you do. That's between you and your wife.
> 
> You really need to have a conversation with your wife about WHEN your MIL will be leaving. Not if. When.


Yes, I work. I am a consultant so projects come and go. It's the nature of my business. But since I work with technology if I'm not out concreting the driveway, and sitting on my pc working she doesn't consider it work. Even though I would be making 5x more than the guy fixing my roof. It's all perception. I also work from home for 1 year a wife's request bc she can't deal with kids herself, and got hell from them. I work in office for a few months, and phone calls to run home didn't stop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> Yes, I work. I am a consultant so projects come and go. It's the nature of my business. But since I work with technology if I'm not out concreting the driveway, and sitting on my pc working she doesn't consider it work. Even though I would be making 5x more than the guy fixing my roof. It's all perception. I also work from home for 1 year a wife's request bc she can't deal with kids herself, and got hell from them. I work in office for a few months, and phone calls to run home didn't stop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look, women want to either see the man leaving the house everyday with his lunchbox or actually sweating in the fields under the noonday sun. this is the way women are, due to their limbic programming. Understand? Your wife actually agrees with your MIL on this, if only subconsciously. Your MIL's BS negatively feeds your wife's limbic programming. 

Why haven't you kicked your MIL out?

Does your MIL own your home?

How old are you?

What's your free testosterone level?

And the most important question: when's the last time a woman other than your wife tried to pick you up or seduce you?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> I DID NOT miss the point. I've stood up before and it breaks down in embarrassing screaming heard in a quiet neighborhood. The neighbors already talk about us. The kids get upset in the corner , and my odd kid pours gasoline on the fire and acts out in bad ways. And the "women" start using the kids to further their war. "Remember when your father did this, or that...he doesn't really love you". It gets even uglier. I don't want to sit in jail based on a pack of lies. Cops immediately take the side of the women and let the courts sort it out. I already know this. I prefer to get the hell out quietly. But now I am waiting for a new project work. And have to figure WHERE to go.
> Now YOU missed my point when I stated I consulted an attorney who said NOT to move out or leave bc it will weaken my case. What am I to do? Honestly, if I let loose, wouldn't anyone here want to "take care" of the MIL?
> The "HOUSE" is in my wife's name. I thought I made that clear.
> There is more that I will NOT write on a public forum. I came here for understanding and share my tragic circumstances. I agree with most of what everyone says, know what needs to be done, but their are logistical concerns and complications. I do thank everyone for replies. I'm trying to keep it together for the kids sake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, you did miss the point. Start documenting what goes on, record what's going on. It is not normal (I know you know that. but yes, it will help if you can demonstrate to others what goes on behind the closed doors. I am not saying you need to leave the house, your MIL must leave. It is your house. It is your primary residence. It is not your MAIl's. It doesn't really matter that the house is in your wife's name, that is a legal fiction. Were divorce proceedings to start, she could not legally kick you out, she'd need a court order. You are afraid they will lie about you. well that's why you record and document. You show the truth to those who matter, and you show who is in the wrong.

So yes, start that fight. Assert your rights. Demand your MIL leave. Let them scream all they want, don't take the bait. Just catch it all for posterity. Like I said, call a spousal abuse hotline, they will have very specific knowledge to support you.

Or bide your time as things continue to deteriorate, and you let your MIL destroy the family completely.


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

You are right sadandangry. It is a sad situation. And it cant continue on this way. The bigger problem I my wife has become seriously tainted by the MIL and hurt me so much with what's she's done, that I don't see a way back to her. So much unnecessary anger and hurt and she didn't see fit to put her mother in her place. 

Yes the MIL has her own apt, I wish she'd use it and never come back. 
Is the poster serious about my age and my free testosterone level?? That's just insulting and ridiculous. Like I have several "geek" friends in technology who are happily married and less handy around the house than I. I'm may not be a macho man, but I have done more than the average person for my wife, kids and even MIL and sacrificed my well being. It is now obviously unappreciated and no longer heroic to take one for the team or be a scapegoat sacrificial lamb anymore. I am well respected outside the home by friends strangers, colleagues and other relatives.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> Is the poster serious about my age and my free testosterone level?? That's just insulting and ridiculous.


Serious as cancer. Sexually attracting human females, and holding that attraction for a lifetime, is based on appealing to as many of her limbic cues as possible. You are failing. You might want to find out exactly why and where. Assuming you wish to be successful with women, including your wife.

The most fundamental female attractors are based on manifestations of somewhat higher testosterone levels.



mannpieces said:


> Like I have several "geek" friends in technology who are happily married and less handy around the house than I.


And that adds up to exactly nothing.

Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison were/are technogeeks and they got more action than any man could handle, since they were alpha/sigma types in their interactions with women.

In fact, this explanation of the Male Socio-sexual Hierarchy is written by a game developer and author of fantasy novels. That's about as geeky as it gets, but he's also a martial artist and understands The Golden Ratio of female attraction.











mannpieces said:


> I'm may not be a macho man, but I have done more than the average person for my wife, kids and even MIL and sacrificed my well being.


And how's that working out for you? If it ain't, it's time to make some changes.



mannpieces said:


> It is now obviously unappreciated and no longer heroic to take one for the team or be a scapegoat sacrificial lamb anymore. I am well respected outside the home by friends strangers, colleagues and other relatives.


That's nice, but what do the women think? If they agree, then you they've been sniffing around you. Has that happened?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mannpieces said:


> Yes, I work. I am a consultant so projects come and go. It's the nature of my business. But since I work with technology if I'm not out concreting the driveway, and sitting on my pc working she doesn't consider it work. Even though I would be making 5x more than the guy fixing my roof. It's all perception. I also work from home for 1 year a wife's request bc she can't deal with kids herself, and got hell from them. I work in office for a few months, and phone calls to run home didn't stop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And, you ran home to fix things, didn't you?


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## mannpieces (Jan 24, 2013)

OK, I may end on this note. I appreciate many of the sincere, even tough kick-ass answers. But some I think are degrading into questioning my manhood - maybe my MIL is assuming a pseudo-alias here? Trying to say I have a chemical imbalance/low T and make me less attractive to women? 
I know I sound emotional here, and maybe even a tad pathetic. I am in a weakened war-weary state of mind, but, I am quite confident in myself outside my house. I can easily flirt and attract women if I desired. I am hungry for intimacy, and feel time is fleeting.
I admit, when someone feels ****ty like I have, it can reflect on the aura or image your project. I was looking to share my story, see other's experiences. My heart hurts for my kids who are very attached to me. That the MIL is mentally ill, isn't my fault, and disappointed that my wife clings to her and her "teachings" If my wife was with me, instead of thinking I'm enemy #1, I believe(d) together we could conquer the world. We went through a lot of traumatic experiences together, and instead of bonding and bringing us closer, the MIL inserted herself to kill everything that we had left between us. I hope(d) someone could pull her to the side and put some sense into her, but seems less likely every day.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

The continued presence of your MIL in your home indicates a lack of decisive action on your part. You aren't in charge of your own house. This alone will cause your wife to lose attraction to you. 

This could be your wife asking this question:
Sheryl Crow - "Are You Strong Enough To Be My Man" - acoustic, accordion, 1995, stereo - YouTube


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey Mann, how old are your kids? Are they old enough to decide which parent they want to live with? Maybe you could move out and take them with you. If the house is in her name, is the mortgage in only her name too? Why can't you stop depositing your check in the joint account and use the money to get your own place? Let MIL take over paying household bills since she and your wife want to live together.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

It seems to me like your real problem is that these women have eroded your self-esteem to the point you just put up with a garbage situation. Ignoring the attraction stuff for a moment, I would probably help you to a) start exercising, b) get out of the house and find some activities/friends/hobbies, c) disconnect from your wife and plan an escape.

It's a horrible situation and those women are teaching your children to distain you. You need to find some ways to get the mental edge to make a change. Every day is a wasted day there.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Take charge of your family. Stop making excuses and blaming people with less power than you have.


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## Pinkpetal (Jan 2, 2014)

Sounds to me like your wife has knocked you down so many times that you're having trouble getting back up. This woman has so much power, it's incredible. So the house is in your wife's name, which is the first thing she will throw at you if you even try to make mention of her mother leaving. Which is why you won't even bother going down that road, because you anticipate how it will play out. 

I've been in an abusive marriage Mann and there is no magic wand to wave so that your life will magically improve. Your wife has beaten you down and likes you in that position. She holds you hostage to your children's wellbeing, feeling powerful from joining ranks with another bully. They both entertain themselves by watching you jump when they say, and all you do is ask "how high?"

The first step here is sorting your finances, finding money for yourself. Divorce is your only way out. Mother and daughter in cahoots together is not going to change. Start building a plan for yourself. Consult a lawyer without your wife's knowledge and see what they have to say about custody. 

I know what it's like to despair Mann, but pity will get you nothing but more of the same. Where there's a will, there's a way. You're a smart man, find that way. Dig yourself out of this hole, and take your kids with you. You can do it.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

No. The situation is not hopeless. You should look at it as if your wife is in an affair with the MIL though, for the time being. Nothing will change while the toxicity of the MIL governs your wife. You say things are better when they aren't together. Then get MIL the f out! Document the abusiveness, reach out for outside resources if you need to (beyond us, there's not much more we can do beyond moral support). And yes in fact, why don't you go get a check up? All this stress has got to be wearing on you. Look at your situation, and open your mind. You have gotten yourself to the place you are at, maybe, just maybe, you need to listen to the advice being offered. We are not malicious, we want to help you help yourself. There's no gain here for any of us in seeing you fail, or miserable. All you're getting here is honest opinions, no one wants to belittle you (shock you out of your current state maybe, yes), we want you to succeed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Pinkpetal, do the wife and the MIL really have power? They are not even strong enough to see the situation objectively, are they? They are kind of trapped inside their toxic relationship. 

The OP is at least able to step back and take a more objective look at the situation. He could be a leader here. Someone is going to have to be, if things are going to get any healthier.

I think seeing himself as a powerful person, and not a victim of the two women in his house, could be an empowering step. He really could turn things around here. But without some pushing, I don't know if he will be inspired to.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

mannpieces said:


> OK, I may end on this note. I appreciate many of the sincere, even tough kick-ass answers. But some I think are degrading into questioning my manhood - maybe my MIL is assuming a pseudo-alias here? Trying to say I have a chemical imbalance/low T and make me less attractive to women?
> I know I sound emotional here, and maybe even a tad pathetic. I am in a weakened war-weary state of mind, but, I am quite confident in myself outside my house. I can easily flirt and attract women if I desired. I am hungry for intimacy, and feel time is fleeting.
> I admit, when someone feels ****ty like I have, it can reflect on the aura or image your project. I was looking to share my story, see other's experiences. My heart hurts for my kids who are very attached to me. That the MIL is mentally ill, isn't my fault, and disappointed that my wife clings to her and her "teachings" If my wife was with me, instead of thinking I'm enemy #1, I believe(d) together we could conquer the world. We went through a lot of traumatic experiences together, and instead of bonding and bringing us closer, the MIL inserted herself to kill everything that we had left between us. I hope(d) someone could pull her to the side and put some sense into her, but seems less likely every day.


Believe it or not, the act of simply going out and getting some sex with a female who wants to do it with you will make you instantly more attractive.

There interaction with your wife, keeps you in a depleted state and it is not good for your testosterone or image.

Just imagine how your image is currently "fed" by the wife and her interactions with you...


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> OK, I may end on this note. I appreciate many of the sincere, even tough kick-ass answers. But some I think are degrading into questioning my manhood - maybe my MIL is assuming a pseudo-alias here? Trying to say I have a chemical imbalance/low T and make me less attractive to women?
> I know I sound emotional here, and maybe even a tad pathetic. I am in a weakened war-weary state of mind, but, I am quite confident in myself outside my house. I can easily flirt and attract women if I desired. I am hungry for intimacy, and feel time is fleeting.
> I admit, when someone feels ****ty like I have, it can reflect on the aura or image your project. I was looking to share my story, see other's experiences. My heart hurts for my kids who are very attached to me. That the MIL is mentally ill, isn't my fault, and disappointed that my wife clings to her and her "teachings" If my wife was with me, instead of thinking I'm enemy #1, I believe(d) together we could conquer the world. We went through a lot of traumatic experiences together, and instead of bonding and bringing us closer, the MIL inserted herself to kill everything that we had left between us. I hope(d) someone could pull her to the side and put some sense into her, but seems less likely every day.


In all honesty, Mann, did you come for sympathy or advice? In no way am I minimizing your situation, but you have to start believing in yourself because no one else will. Life is not a pity party, brother. It is what YOU make it.

You may not like the advice you are getting from some of the posters, but it is all well intentioned AND some very spot on.

Start documenting, start recording, start working out and improving YOU, keep talking to your lawyer, keep loving your kids, and get the MIL out!

Falling is the easy part. It's time to get up.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

mannpieces said:


> I hope(d) someone could pull her to the side and put some sense into her, but seems less likely every day.


That someone you are hoping for, that's you. Everyone posting here knows that. Your wife knows that. You know that. I'm telling you that outright, so you cannot hide from that.

You are the catalyst for change. You don't have to do it alone, but you have to do it.


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## ecotime47 (Apr 3, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> That someone you are hoping for, that's you. Everyone posting here knows that. Your wife knows that. You know that. I'm telling you that outright, so you cannot hide from that.
> 
> You are the catalyst for change. You don't have to do it alone, but you have to do it.


You can do this Mann. We're all behind you.


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## Pinkpetal (Jan 2, 2014)

jld said:


> Pinkpetal, do the wife and the MIL really have power? They are not even strong enough to see the situation objectively, are they? They are kind of trapped inside their toxic relationship.
> 
> The OP is at least able to step back and take a more objective look at the situation. He could be a leader here. Someone is going to have to be, if things are going to get any healthier.
> 
> I think seeing himself as a powerful person, and not a victim of the two women in his house, could be an empowering step. He really could turn things around here. But without some pushing, I don't know if he will be inspired to.




No, the MIL and wife don't have power. I meant that Mann was giving them far too much power with his worrying over what they may do or say all the time. 

I agree with you. If he could find within himself some strength, and not feel such a victim, then he could most definitely turn things around for himself.


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