# Boundaries/Transparency in Non-marriage relationships



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

OK I have a question for my favorite relationship community.

I feel pretty solid on boundaries and transparency in marriages. You're committed for life, certain things are not acceptable. For me that looks like no texts to other men, no GNOs to the bar, full transparency with phones, emails, passwords etc.

I don't feel like this is something that you just "flip on." ie, I don't expect that a woman goes on vegas trips with her single girlfriends on her bachelorette party, and then never again after she's married. I feel like there should be a progression towards this as the relationship advances.

My question is, how does this look?

I am now in month six of a relationship, and this weekend was kind of pivotal. It kind of forced me to rethink some of the communication I've been having with the opposite sex.

The girl had some behaviors when we were casually dating that would be issues to me if we were married. Meaning she did a lot of GNOs to the bar, a handful of guy friends, trips to see guy friends. I completely understand that, seeing as how she was single for 8 years and I wouldn't expect anyone I was casually dating to alter their life. As we became exclusive she dialed back a lot of that stuff. She didn't go on a few road trips with guys to go to concerts, she didn't go on a vacation with her single girlfriend. She still does GNOs on occasion, and she still has some guy friends she talks to. I was pretty much OK with that up until this weekend.

We exchanged the L word, and after meeting some of these guys this weekend, I feel like I'm at the point where I don't think one on one communication is really wise.

We chatted about it today, I mentioned how I felt, and mentioned as well that I also have girls that I talk to that is probably not appropriate. We both came to the same conclusion, we think we should discuss it further but neither of us is ready to say we're not going to communicate with opposite sex friends yet. I also think it would be a little much after 6 months to ask someone to not go drinking with their same-sex friends anymore, even though I think it's a risky behavior.

So what is your take on this? I know not everyone is anti-GNO, for those of you that are, when is an appropriate time for that to stop? When is it appropriate for private communication to stop with opposite sex friends? How do you transition to all of these boundaries gracefully? And if you're not married, is it appropriate to ask for someone else's phone/email/web passwords?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Look... either you're in a committed relationship or you're not.

I don't care what you call the "committed relationship". It can be marriage, civil union, shacking up.

While some of these have definite events that tell you you are there, they don't always. It's between the two of you to (a) define what your committed relationship would be and (b) whether or not you are in one.

If you feel you are in a committed relationship and she doesn't, you have to reassess your situation. It could be you have read too much into the relationship or maybe she isn't taking it seriously.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

So if you are in an exclusive relationship for 6 months, at that point you start asking for phone passwords? That sounds a little much for me, I'm not sure I'd be ready to give that kind of transparency yet.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't think you ask for them at all. I think at some point, the individual determines when they are comfortable and gives the info freely.

Case in point. My H gave me keys to his apartment after the L word mutually exchanged. I didn't ask for it, he just thought his actions backed up his words and that I would appreciate the security that *I was who he wanted in his life. *I was given the privilege. 

I think if what your partner is doing is affecting you negatively, then you should say something. Demands aren't the way to go. I'm sure that at some point, many behaviors get dialed back just because the relationship has changed, and not because there was a big discussion about it. A person that's into their partner kind of knows what is appropriate and what isn't, and they modify accordingly.

Well they should anyway.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think you ask for them at all. I think at some point, the individual determines when they are comfortable and gives the info freely.
> 
> Case in point. My H gave me keys to his apartment after the L word mutually exchanged. I didn't ask for it, he just thought his actions backed up his words and that I would appreciate the security that *I was who he wanted in his life. *I was given the privilege.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

COguy said:


> OK I have a question for my favorite relationship community.
> 
> I feel pretty solid on boundaries and transparency in marriages. You're committed for life, certain things are not acceptable. For me that looks like no texts to other men, no GNOs to the bar, full transparency with phones, emails, passwords etc.
> 
> ...


Married or not a person is entitled to their privacy. As a woman, I may have private conversations with my friends about any number of things that are private. The same goes for my husband. My husband and I don't have anything blocked so it would be easy to pry. But we don't because we trust each other, and respect the other persons privacy. 

There are compromises on both parts in every successful relationship. I feel it's unfair to ask a person to drop friends, or things he/she may enjoy. Trust and respect are essential to any relationship. 

It'd be a good idea for you to figure out why you want to be so controlling.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

COguy said:


> So if you are in an exclusive relationship for 6 months, at that point you start asking for phone passwords? That sounds a little much for me, I'm not sure I'd be ready to give that kind of transparency yet.


 I think that you cross that point when you live together and share bills.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I feel suffocated just reading all this. It is a mistake to force someone to change because they will end up resenting you. If this is true love she will do all of those things naturally but she will set the level of where she wants her privacy to be.

I would not dream of asking my partner his phone password or to stop talking to women.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I am not against GNO. I'm also not with the idea of cutting off half the world to benefit one person. I do have some male friends. If we are going to meet, my husband is invited. If we talk on the phone, my husband is informed. If he chooses to not go or has a concern, I listen and make a decision. We have only had one instance where it became a concern because the guy was being disrespectful about my husband, and I told him not to contact me again after my husband shared his thoughts.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

IF I had to start all over again, I would not want to date a guy that had so many close female friends or who kept in touch with ex girlfriends (who are not the mother of his children); who was used to traveling with them, particularly one on one; the expression "close female friend" would be the kiss of death.

It's hard to get people who have not had a problem with something to understand what the problem is.

Coguy, have you met these friends? Do any of the guy friends try to act like they know her better than you do? Do you know if she has had sex with any of these friends? Are you FB friends with her to see how they interact online? 

I'm in the camp that you can't dictate these things to someone, they have to understand it and freely want to do it as well. Does she appreciate at all that you don't have close female friends?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm with Chris either you are in a committed relationship or you aren't.

My husband put his foot down on my OSF somewhere around week 9 after we'd exchanged I love you's and decided we were serious. He never tried to control me he simply said "I'm not okay with you hanging out with guys who want to date you". It was HIS boundary and I respected it. He'd been cheated on before so this was a big deal to him. I get it and if I didn't he was prepared to cut me loose. He said and I quote "it's either them or me".

I chose him.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I'm with Chris either you are in a committed relationship or you aren't.
> 
> My husband put his foot down on my OSF somewhere around week 9 after we'd exchanged I love you's and decided we were serious. He never tried to control me he simply said "I'm not okay with you hanging out with guys who want to date you". It was HIS boundary and I respected it. He'd been cheated on before so this was a big deal to him. I get it and if I didn't he was prepared to cut me loose. He said and I quote "it's either them or me".
> 
> I chose him.



Mavash, do you guys share phone/email passwords? If so, when did that start? Same question for Chris I guess.

I'm still kind of deciding how I feel about everything, my initial take is that it's stuff you work up to slowly over time. I'm really looking for people's practical examples and advice, your post was very helpful thanks.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> I am not against GNO. I'm also not with the idea of cutting off half the world to benefit one person. I do have some male friends. If we are going to meet, my husband is invited. If we talk on the phone, my husband is informed. If he chooses to not go or has a concern, I listen and make a decision. We have only had one instance where it became a concern because the guy was being disrespectful about my husband, and I told him not to contact me again after my husband shared his thoughts.


Kathy your response really surprises me, I've always respected your advice and viewed it as insightful. As a married person, I would in no way be OK with opposite sex one on one meetings. GNO to meat markets I'm not comfortable with. I guess I've heard too many stories and seen too much, I'm just not open to those kind of arrangements. I'm interested to see why you think that is OK though.

I'm not opposed to HAVING opposite sex friends I suppose, just anything that would create private conversations or one on one activities.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

COguy said:


> Mavash, do you guys share phone/email passwords? If so, when did that start? Same question for Chris I guess.


I got married before cell phones and the internet so I'm not going to be much help with this question.

But to be honest with you I don't know ALL of my husband's passwords and he probably doesn't know mine either yet we've been married 21 years. I know his phones but not his emails. He's given them to me and I promptly forgot. I remember the phones because I use it sometimes.

I do laugh because back in my day the big thing was to swap apartment keys or maybe have a drawer at each others place. Oh how times have changed.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I don't have much experience with the dating scene, as I only dated my H, but six months really seems like a short amount of time to start *asking* for passwords, etc. If she volunteers it then you know you're on the same page, but it seems as if you should give her more time to get to the level that you're talking about. And that's for all aspects of the relationship.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Sussieq said:


> It'd be a good idea for you to figure out why you want to be so controlling.


I see you haven't checked out that link I left you in the other thread yet.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> IF I had to start all over again, I would not want to date a guy that had so many close female friends or who kept in touch with ex girlfriends (who are not the mother of his children); who was used to traveling with them, particularly one on one; the expression "close female friend" would be the kiss of death.


I don't view it as a problem as long as they are single. If they're in committed relationships and still doing all that, that's a different story. In my case, she was single for 8 years, so I can imagine she's had all sorts of single habits built up.

I would do all that stuff if I was single. I did for the most part.



> It's hard to get people who have not had a problem with something to understand what the problem is.
> 
> Coguy, have you met these friends? Do any of the guy friends try to act like they know her better than you do? Do you know if she has had sex with any of these friends? Are you FB friends with her to see how they interact online?


Most of them are doormat types that she has put in the friend zone. I'm pretty sure all of them want in her pants, but there has never been any hanky panky between any of them. With the exception of one guy that tried to kiss her when we were first dating but she didn't let.

I saw that friendship first hand this weekend, and though the guy is a total vagina, you can tell he's the emotional support type who is just waiting for his time to strike. I told her it's not appropriate, and that's kind of how the whole conversation kicked off.



> I'm in the camp that you can't dictate these things to someone, they have to understand it and freely want to do it as well. Does she appreciate at all that you don't have close female friends?


This isn't a one sided conversation. I have close female friends as well and do the same thing. I have a very similar situation as she does in fact.

I respect that she's been changing her attitude to alot of the stuff in terms of what she does and doesn't find acceptable now. My views have also changed as the relationship has gotten more serious.

Initially when we first started dating I think she was very critical of what I had been saying (though I was pretty adamant about mentioning what I felt was and wasn't appropriate in marriage even though it was just casual). As our relationship progressed, she started to see truth in what I was saying and has already changed her behaviors to reflect that.

I think now it's a matter of both of us knowing what WOULD be appropriate if we were married, but not necessarily wanting to give up certain aspects of our single life in terms of activities and people we talk to. Though I think with this weekend it has probably changed things, I know for me it has.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> A person that's into their partner kind of knows what is appropriate and what isn't, and they modify accordingly.
> 
> Well they should anyway.


Judging by the GNO thread on TAM, I can't see this as very likely in any relationship. From all the experience I've had here and in my marriage, discussing this stuff is paramount to a successful relationship.

Assumptions lead to bad assumptions.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Sussieq said:


> Married or not a person is entitled to their privacy. As a woman, I may have private conversations with my friends about any number of things that are private. The same goes for my husband. My husband and I don't have anything blocked so it would be easy to pry. But we don't because we trust each other, and respect the other persons privacy.
> 
> There are compromises on both parts in every successful relationship. I feel it's unfair to ask a person to drop friends, or things he/she may enjoy. Trust and respect are essential to any relationship.
> 
> It'd be a good idea for you to figure out why you want to be so controlling.


You obviously don't spend any time in the CWI forum. I'm not interested in that kind of "trust" and "respect".


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don't see it as a big deal.

My wife and I never had any discussion about it really.
I don't keep a passcode on my phone.
The first time she ever opened my laptop for something she asked for the password I gave it to her.

I did at one point write down a list of all my passwords/screen names for her so she could get into our online accounts and while doing so I just added all the passwords to my e-mail and stuff.

Since she's a tech ignorant for the most part I've set up all her passwords and screen names online.
She's often asking me for her passwords to get into something because she forgot.

We did our taxes today and she asked me to check something on her business account online before we went to the accountant.
I asked her for her Bank ID and she said "I don't know, I have it saved on my iPad, you're the one who set up the account."
Yeah...3 years ago I set up the account ..LMAO


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

COguy said:


> You obviously don't spend any time in the CWI forum. I'm not interested in that kind of "trust" and "respect".


lol..that was the link I left her in the other thread.


:rofl:


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I don't see it as a big deal.
> 
> My wife and I never had any discussion about it really.
> I don't keep a passcode on my phone.
> ...



Yeah but you didn't do all that when dating right? I mean I'm not sure how comfortable I am giving my passwords and stuff to her after only 6 months. I would probably be willing to let her see my texts and facebook stuff if she was interested.

I would think that kind of thing would be something I would be open to after engagement or something.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

COguy said:


> Yeah but you didn't do all that when dating right? I mean I'm not sure how comfortable I am giving my passwords and stuff to her after only 6 months. I would probably be willing to let her see my texts and facebook stuff if she was interested.


Hmm that's true but honestly if I'm not up to anything AND I've established the person can be trusted I may not write out a list of all my passwords but I'm not going to start screaming she's trying to control me if she wants to look at my phone.
I'm just going to hand it to her.

I guess it would depend on my level of trust in her.



> I would think that kind of thing would be something I would be open to after engagement or something.


Well, if I'm comfortable enough to trust she's not going to use the info to harm me I don't have a problem giving it to her.

It's really hard to say because I haven't been on the dating scene since the mid 90's and a lot of this stuff wasn't in my life then so.

I don't really know what I'd do.

Sorry.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

If you're asking this question then there's some doubt that's eating at you. 6 months is too soon. Maybe when you move in together or are more committed


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

COguy said:


> Judging by the GNO thread on TAM,* I can't see this as very likely in any relationship.* From all the experience I've had here and in my marriage, discussing this stuff is paramount to a successful relationship.
> 
> Assumptions lead to bad assumptions.


Cheating has never been an issue for me or any of my partners. Am guessing it has been for you therefore the problems you have.

But I can tell you that you thinking above is wrong and tainted by your experience which is understandable. Reasonable people can self regulate.

Absolutely I discuss boundaries and cheating EA, PA of whatever you want to call them would be a deal breaker. My partner and I discuss this and all sort of things around our boundaries, trust etc. But I have no need to be regulated by anyone and no desire to monitor my partners every move.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

CO guy, I think the two of you getting on the same page with various boundaries is an iterative process since effectively both you and she may be giving up old habits.

One thing I would look out for is how much my partner defines himself through his friends. I hear or read women quite often claiming that most of the friends are men (kind of reminiscent of the now unPC remark that "some of my best friends are black.") like it's a badge of honor. Or they may make the sweeping remark that most /all women are catty and therefore not to be trusted. If she hasn't said anything that even suggest these sentiments, that's a good thing.

One thing I learned from my failed is that having "intermediate" boundaries is a good thing. Of course, no one want their spouse to have an affair with someone or even to treat someone as more important. 

But just like the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the road to an EA or PA is paved with those same good intentions. When I look back on my failed marriage, I can think of a couple of women who were constantly making direct contact with my husband; insisting that we all get together even though they were without a date. I had hoped that my husband would simply cool their behavior around them and that should do it. Now I know that there are times when I need to take control of a situation.

Leaving these things unchecked results in people accusing you on leading them on and swearing that they've developed feeling for the other as if they are not expected to have self control.

As for you COguy, what would you like to see and what do you plan to give up for it as you have mentioned having some female friends as well.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Holland said:


> Cheating has never been an issue for me or any of my partners. Am guessing it has been for you therefore the problems you have.
> 
> But I can tell you that you thinking above is wrong and tainted by your experience which is understandable. Reasonable people can self regulate.
> 
> Absolutely I discuss boundaries and cheating EA, PA of whatever you want to call them would be a deal breaker. My partner and I discuss this and all sort of things around our boundaries, trust etc. But I have no need to be regulated by anyone and no desire to monitor my partners every move.


Tell us about the boundaries that you share with your spouse?


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## MissMe (Feb 26, 2013)

COGuy --- That's an interesting picture.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

COguy said:


> Judging by the GNO thread on TAM, I can't see this as very likely in any relationship. From all the experience I've had here and in my marriage, discussing this stuff is paramount to a successful relationship.
> 
> Assumptions lead to bad assumptions.


Discussion should be constant and welcome. That's not what I'm referring to.

At some point in the relationship you have dialed things back... was it because your partner said something to you? or you guys chatted about it mutually? Or was it simply because you _wanted_ to do it? Some things just don't feel right after the relationship becomes deeper. I'm talking of course from a mature, boundary conscious perspective. No, not everyone internally knows or is aware enough of what's appropriate all the time, but you don't seem like that type of guy, and I doubt your relationship with this woman would have progressed to 6 months without her having a sense of judgment that you find appealing.

You do sound jaded and I understand based on your experiences, but not all relationships progress the same way. They don't have to end up with what you see here on TAM or with what happened to you. My H and I didn't have to talk things to death to be sure we were on the same page with our relationship, but again, we are very self aware people. At certain points in the progression of our relationship we each did what felt right to us, without really having the pointed questions asked or long discussions. 11 years later it still works for us.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I am not against GNO. I'm also not with the idea of cutting off half the world to benefit one person. I do have some male friends. If we are going to meet, my husband is invited. If we talk on the phone, my husband is informed. If he chooses to not go or has a concern, I listen and make a decision. We have only had one instance where it became a concern because the guy was being disrespectful about my husband, and I told him not to contact me again after my husband shared his thoughts.


My marriage is the same. It's mind boggling the way some choose to make relationships so complicated.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> CO guy, I think the two of you getting on the same page with various boundaries is an iterative process since effectively both you and she may be giving up old habits.
> 
> One thing I would look out for is how much my partner defines himself through his friends. I hear or read women quite often claiming that most of the friends are men (kind of reminiscent of the now unPC remark that "some of my best friends are black.") like it's a badge of honor. Or they may make the sweeping remark that most /all women are catty and therefore not to be trusted. If she hasn't said anything that even suggest these sentiments, that's a good thing.


She hasn't. She has male friends but her best friends are female, and she hangs out with them much more frequently. I think her male friends are there because she enjoys sports and concerts and that just generally precludes more male company than female.



> As for you COguy, what would you like to see and what do you plan to give up for it as you have mentioned having some female friends as well.


I guess I'd like to see the one on one private conversations stop. That is a tough one for me as well because I have a few really good friends that I enjoy talking to, but if I was to assess it honestly, they are probably not good friendships to have in a committed relationship.

The GNO thing I'm not really a fan of either. I don't mind giving that up but I'm not a bar person. I guess my activity would be dancing, I would consider it but it would take some further discussion.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I doubt your relationship with this woman would have progressed to 6 months without her having a sense of judgment that you find appealing.


Her original sense of judgement was what I was sure would end this thing. We kept it very light, with her habits I was sure she would do something dumb.

As we stuck it out and got closer, she voluntarily made some changes, which I respected a lot. Some of them were on her own, some of them I brought up. Her not having much relationship experience, she hadn't really pondered some of the stuff I mentioned. And I think I'm OK with that. Before I got cheated on, I shared the same opinion as many of the people that posted on this thread. If I read my OP 2 years ago I'd think I was being ridiculous.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> At certain points in the progression of our relationship we each did what felt right to us, without really having the pointed questions asked or long discussions. 11 years later it still works for us.


Also wanted to point out that I think you are really lucky and that that type of thing is not normal, at least from my experience.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Just know that at the end of the day what matters most is not how everyone here sets boundaries but what you personality okay or not okay with. Plenty of couples have OSF with no problems. Others don't like it. Some are okay with GNO and others prefer them to be minimal and marriage friendly.

Figure out what you don't like and communicate it.

Being cheated on changes you. It just does. It did my husband and I respect that therefore I respect his boundaries. And yes a discussion was necessary.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I doubt your relationship with this woman would have progressed to 6 months without her having a sense of judgment that you find appealing.


I don't know the age of COguy or the age of his girlfriend, but I have a feeling that at the beginning of a relationship some of these unclear relationships orbiting around one another can be exciting and a source of attraction. These days the 20 something crowd definitely want to push the boundaries in the varying types of relationships that can be conducted these days. 

Let's not forget that there was a time when men and women would not be seen together unless they were related.

If someone is attracted to another because of the uncertainty and edginess that prevails around them, I don't think this bodes well for a long term relationship.


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## MissMe (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm pushing 50, was married for 25+ years. Ex and I shared all passwords for everything. He was not very tech savvy, so I had to set up all that stuff. 

Now with my SO, I do know his passwords for everything because he's needed me to get online and check his emails or his bank account when he was not able. I happen to remember them because that's just me, I haven't written them down. Now half the time he asks me what his passwords are! He does not have my passwords because there has never been a reason for him to need them. But I'd certainly not hesitated to tell him, but there just has been no need and he honestly wouldn't want them anyway. 

If he had close one on one female friends, wouldn't work for me. GNO I don't understand the issue with that. I have GNO all the time, we don't go to bars, perhaps that's the difference. We go to dinner or one of our houses and talk and laugh etc etc.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

COguy said:


> Her original sense of judgement was what I was sure would end this thing. We kept it very light, with her habits I was sure she would do something dumb.
> 
> As we stuck it out and got closer, she voluntarily made some changes, which I respected a lot. Some of them were on her own, some of them I brought up. Her not having much relationship experience, she hadn't really pondered some of the stuff I mentioned. And I think I'm OK with that. Before I got cheated on, I shared the same opinion as many of the people that posted on this thread. If I read my OP 2 years ago I'd think I was being ridiculous.


I see, and I totally understand why you feel the way you do. It's also good that she's open to changes and the concerns you have brought to her aren't taken lightly. The lack of relationship experience can go one way or the other. Either she will feel you're telling her what to do or making demands on her, or, she'll take things you say into consideration and weigh the importance of what you say against her stance. It sounds to me like she respects you too.

I think changes really start with the respect of one another. Certain things should just feel wrong to you the deeper you get into the relationship. Like I said though, not everyone has that red flashing light in their head telling them... I probably shouldn't do this or continue to entertain this friendship etc.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

tacoma said:


> I see you haven't checked out that link I left you in the other thread yet.


Lol! I did check it out!! But I didn't have much time to look at it yesterday. Then this morning I tried to find it and I couldn't. I was going to PM you for the link because I cannot bear to read through the other thread. I'm going to look again right now. This site kinda drains me.......so much unhappiness.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MissMe said:


> GNO I don't understand the issue with that. I have GNO all the time, we don't go to bars, perhaps that's the difference. We go to dinner or one of our houses and talk and laugh etc etc.


I'm specifically referring to GNOs to bars, meat markets, basically anywhere where girls will be intoxicated and prone to single men wanting to get in their pants. Also the girls involved plays a big role. I'd be more apt to let a bunch of happily married women get drunk and go to a club then a bunch of sl*tty singles going to an event sober.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

COguy said:


> Mavash, do you guys share phone/email passwords? If so, when did that start? Same question for Chris I guess.
> 
> I'm still kind of deciding how I feel about everything, my initial take is that it's stuff you work up to slowly over time. I'm really looking for people's practical examples and advice, your post was very helpful thanks.


I have shared my passwords with my wife for a long time, probably back to when my kids were old enough to get on the computer. Since I have a lot of financial records, tax returns, etc... I wanted the records protected.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Before I found this message board, I finally came to the conclusion that if my (future) fiance (or any person that you're dating) wanted me to spend half my week with him; account for my free time and turn down date offers from other men, well, then it was time to start disclosing information, showing the e-mail, FB and cellphone accounts.

and this is all before marriage or even cohabitation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

With a girl like your current gf, my gut wouldn't be so at ease, as it was with a few other women. You mentioned yourself that she can slip. Also, I would see her hesitance as a sign that she's not really ready to settle down yet, so I wouldn't decide to settle down with her either. It's a big lifestyle change most likely for her, and it's pretty much the time to determine whether you guys are serious or not.

The alternative for me was that my wife and I were best friends for a year before even having sex. My gut was at ease, I didn't question her word and to this day she has not betrayed me in fidelity. But I'm guessing that's not really an alternative now.

Boundaries/transparency turned out to essential in marriage however, which we failed to understand in our marriage - we relied on passion alone, for good and bad - which also led to dramas. So I say, establish boundaries early if you can, regardless of whether you trust her or not.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Before I found this message board, I finally came to the conclusion that if my (future) fiance (or any person that you're dating) wanted me to spend half my week with him; account for my free time and turn down date offers from other men, well, then it was time to start disclosing information, showing the e-mail, FB and cellphone accounts.
> 
> and this is all before marriage or even cohabitation.


Is that an all or nothing list? The moment the guy asks you not to date other guys he has to give you his cellphone password? Or does every criteria have to be met?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Just as an update she told me today, completely on her own, "I'm done talking to guys."

I was a little surprised...and really turned on...We said we would discuss it later (like next weekend when we have some alone time) but she just went out on her own today out of nowhere.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That's a good sign I say, a VERY good sign.

A woman showing initiative like that is always a good sign. Like when my wife did counselling out of her own accord, which softened my heart for a while, until V-day that is.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> Look... either you're in a committed relationship or you're not.
> 
> I don't care what you call the "committed relationship". It can be marriage, civil union, shacking up.
> 
> ...


I reread your post today and it made much more sense this time. I think I better understand what you are saying now and it is very wise.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

COguy said:


> Just as an update she told me today, completely on her own, "I'm done talking to guys."
> 
> I was a little surprised...and really turned on...We said we would discuss it later (like next weekend when we have some alone time) but she just went out on her own today out of nowhere.


Well that's great!

The red flashing light must have gone off in her head. She IS aware.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

COguy said:


> Is that an all or nothing list? The moment the guy asks you not to date other guys he has to give you his cellphone password? Or does every criteria have to be met?



If you don't want her seeing other guys, then well, you have to reassure her that you're not seeing other women.

In my situation, there was also the elephant in the room.... that is the "friend" that he was fooling around with at the start of our relationship, wanted to continue calling her a friend but somehow never getting around to introducing us. My gut feelings were correct that he was still seeing her 3 months after he came clean (from her "likes" on his FB wall). Then he was still in contact with her 6 months after we started dating. 

I came to the conclusion that he ever saw her again that our relationship would not be significantly different from an FWB. It also helped that I had gone to some meetup activities and met a couple of guys who wanted to go out with me. I had to make a decision. If he still wanted to "see" this friend, then why should I turn down other men. That's what motivated my "talk" with my fiance. (that's how he became my fiance.)


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