# Kids ignored their Mom on Mother day



## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

I feel weired , guilty but realistic at the same time ;
our kids ignored their mom on mother day ;of course they greeted her early in the morning , but didn't give her any present ; they just ignored it and went with a casual greeting.

My Wife , has ignored celebrating their events( birthday , parties, occasions ,etc...) over the years .

They used to write her poems and letters on Mother's day .

This year they seem to intentially choose to avoid doing anything special to their mom ; I blamed them they replied : why should we care if she never did !

Of course wife is accusing me for this ; especially that we became recently seperated without knowledge of the kids ;but no need to tell them anything ; they can feel clearly ...

I feel bad about it ; yet I won't dare to tell wife : you sowe what you have seeded, the result of years of neglect to your children appears now .

the question is shall I blame the kids that even if your mom is cruel to you you should still do your duty ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that you teach your children to do what is right. Children should be taught to respect their parents.

While it might make you feel vindicated that they ignored her, it's not doing your children any good.

I always made sure that my son gave his father something on days like father's day, Christmas, and his birth day. I also made sure that my step children got something for their mother on mother's day and other special days. the reason was to teach them how to be good, loving generous people.

Did my ex deserve it? Did the mother of my step children deserve it? No. But the children deserved to not be taught to be mean and vindictive.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Are these young children or grown children?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm with Ele. People have criticised me for paying for a mothers day present for SD's mum, but it's not a lot of money, and it's important that she respects and acknowledges her mother on day's like mothers day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

the2ofus said:


> Are these young children or grown children?


They are young teens living at home.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

the2ofus said:


> Are these young children or grown children?


They are 13 and 16 years old .

Elegirl , I am convinced with you about it , and I really blamed them a lot for not doing a move .

From my side I got her a nice gift and a card , wishing the best ; I reminded them twice to get her something ; they just ignored it.

To correct the issue on next day , I forced them to go and get something , When they went to apologize to her , I was watching a sad play :

-D: Sorry mom , we didn't get the chance to get you something before , we had a lot of studies , we just greeted you .

-M: That's a stupid excuse , don't blame me if I don't do anything on your birthday !


The other girl ran away to avoid being attacked by her words ...

After this , the accusation went toward me , that not only I raised them wrong but also that by genes they are like me , Ungrateful.

I just replied calmly that I wish one day she wake up and try at least to be positive , and left .

The question is not If I am right or wrong , or if she is right or wrong ; It is how to make a wife , who never woke up early to make a sandwiche for her child , who never share family dinner unless her favorite close ppl are attending , who never defended her child when being hit by a nephew because it is embarrassing her ; how to make her realize that her relationship with her children requires maintenance like a garden .

we lost each other , me and her , and that's it , but how to convince her that she should maintain her relationship with her kids ?


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

As a selfish man , coming from a cave , I can not deny that I felt for few seconds that I wanted to say : It is all your fault ; I didn't because I feel bad about it .

Even a cave man , when his wife is sad ; he will be angry and sad , because he didn't succeed in making her happy .

I feel at this stage unable to guide the kids through this issue , because I am part of it .

Is there any book or article you know about which targets guiding kids about similar situations? ; or better to have them read about it ...
at the end If I am ungrateful as she said , I don't want my kids to be like me .


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I think that you teach your children to do what is right. Children should be taught to respect their parents.
> 
> While it might make you feel vindicated that they ignored her, it's not doing your children any good.
> 
> ...


Holy mother of guilt trips!!

Did you read the part where she ignored their birthdays and events ?



> My Wife , has ignored celebrating their events( birthday , parties, occasions ,etc...) over the years .
> 
> They used to write her poems and letters on Mother's day .
> 
> This year they seem to intentially choose to avoid doing anything special to their mom ; I blamed them they replied : why should we care if she never did !



OP... she is reaping what she sowed. Even now, she blamed it on you instead of talking a note of her own behavior. Elegirl,maybe well intentioned, is giving you terrible terrible advice for a guy in your situation. Maybe she will start to be a decent parent once the kids start ignoring her. You should have said that to her face.


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## AriYarjan (Mar 21, 2015)

Is Mother's Day celebrated in your country, Zouz? Maybe it wasn't such a big deal for her?


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Your children need counseling to conquer the resentment and bitterness they feel towards their mother. Your wife is an emotional abuser who has hurt her children but you can help your children heal from the damage she has caused. If you don't then your children will become damaged adults. Your call.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

AriYarjan said:


> Is Mother's Day celebrated in your country, Zouz? Maybe it wasn't such a big deal for her?


It is celebrated ; and she is angry because kids didn't meet her expectations .


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Sounds like she doesn't meet theirs but for some reason they're obligated to do so for a grown woman who cant show her own children the same consideration she demands for herself?

Sorry but for once Im siding with the kids over the adults with the information given. Forced apologies aren't apologies either.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't think the kids will be able to "nice" the mother back into being the mother that she should be.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

It's not mean, vindictive or disrespectful for a child to make a choice not to celebrate Mother's Day with a mother that is abusive. 

She is not a good mother to them and they choose not to falsely acknowledge her in that role. 

They made a deliberate choice that reflects their feelings about her. I think it's disrespectful, dishonest and mean to force them to honor a mother who fails in that role.


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

I think I would put the issue of gifts aside and encourage counseling. If your wife will not agree to go, it is still imperative for your children to have a safe place to air out their issues. Your wife cannot have her cake and eat it to, when she hasn't been around to bake the cake and eat it with her family. 

It sounds like you have been there for your children, and I think that is great. But, don't guilt them into giving gifts for their mom. Let them know that they have not done one thing one to cause their mother's estrangement from them.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Dogbert said:


> Your children need counseling to conquer the resentment and bitterness they feel towards their mother. Your wife is an emotional abuser who has hurt her children but you can help your children heal from the damage she has caused. If you don't then your children will become damaged adults. Your call.


I agree, that your responsibilty is to help your children work thru the hurt and that may include counseling.



coffee4me said:


> It's not mean, vindictive or disrespectful for a child to make a choice not to celebrate Mother's Day with a mother that is abusive.
> 
> She is not a good mother to them and they choose not to falsely acknowledge her in that role.
> 
> They made a deliberate choice that reflects their feelings about her. I think it's disrespectful, dishonest and mean to force them to honor a mother who fails in that role.


This is why I asked age. They are teenagers and are certainly old enough to make their own choice. Dad can still talk with them about it and help guide them but they really are old enough to have decision making power. As a parent I would probably talk with them about why they don't want to celebrate her and would possibley even share with them how she would feel about no thanks being given but let it be their choice, I would also use it as a lesson in what being an abusive, bitter person does to those around you. I would not force them to go be abused so I can be let off the hook.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

the2ofus said:


> I agree, that your responsibilty is to help your children work thru the hurt and that may include counseling.
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I asked age. They are teenagers and are certainly old enough to make their own choice. Dad can still talk with them about it and help guide them but they really are old enough to have decision making power. As a parent I would probably talk with them about why they don't want to celebrate her and would possibley even share with them how she would feel about no thanks being given but let it be their choice, I would also use it as a lesson in what being an abusive, bitter person does to those around you. I would not force them to go be abused so I can be let off the hook.



Agree ,

Thank you very much for the productive suggestions , raising my attention to counselling is a good point .

I am not executing power on them to force them , rather I tried to push them to do for their benefit not her ; I had a long heart to heart discussion with them alone ; and raised common questions like :

"If you accept now that you don't greet your mom from the heart in such an occasion ; then You are aware that you should accept one day that your child would do the same "; responded: If I am a careless mom who ignored and mentally abused me for years ;I should accept that they don't respect me ; she gave me many examples such that when she cancelled the eldest birthday because of time/ budget constraint and then did a birthday after two days to her sister daughter ...


i am very close to my girls ; And will help them go to counselling soon ; I proposed it in the form of personality enhancement , not really a big issue to be resolved in a push of a button .



the good thing at the end of the discussion I discovered that 
they don't hate her ; they love her , they are smarter than me in considering that she can not be fixed ; she is what she is ; raised this way , lived this way and will end this way .

They appreciate all the physical sacrifices from her in raising them ; and feel that one day they will pay back because they love her ; but they requested that I don't push them to sacrifice for her ...

I believe it is an acceptable state by now ; however I will push them to go counseling through the school counselor ; whom I trust will help them in some areas better than me .


Suggestions from Tammers on Books also / articles about managing conflicts through seperations is highly appreciated .

thanks


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

AlisonBlaire said:


> I think I would put the issue of gifts aside and encourage counseling. If your wife will not agree to go, it is still imperative for your children to have a safe place to air out their issues. Your wife cannot have her cake and eat it to, when she hasn't been around to bake the cake and eat it with her family.
> 
> It sounds like you have been there for your children, and I think that is great. But, don't guilt them into giving gifts for their mom. Let them know that they have not done one thing one to cause their mother's estrangement from them.


I tried and tried and tried ,with no luck to have her accept counseling ; i even went counseling myself trying to overcome her issues.

for 15 years , I was the father and the mother ; it is me who told them it is okey to love when they had their first crush ., made sure to have them understands the difference between feelings and actions induced.

It is me who used to skip a day at work and go in a snow trip with a bunch of moms .

it is me who stayed faithfull and never even desired another women for 16 years .

It is me who sat with my girl explaining to her about period and puberty ; and ran to school on first alert .

I am strict with the kids sometimes , I refuse that they get everything they want if it is not logical request .

But I have never humulated them , never insulted them , because of the way they feel or look.



I am there for them , and will stay until they move ....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Zouz said:


> They are 13 and 16 years old .
> 
> Elegirl , I am convinced with you about it , and I really blamed them a lot for not doing a move .
> 
> ...


Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

coffee4me said:


> It's not mean, vindictive or disrespectful for a child to make a choice not to celebrate Mother's Day with a mother that is abusive.
> 
> She is not a good mother to them and they choose not to falsely acknowledge her in that role.
> 
> They made a deliberate choice that reflects their feelings about her. I think it's disrespectful, dishonest and mean to force them to honor a mother who fails in that role.



Perfectly said. Needless to say I get awesome stuff from my girls on fathers day  their mom... Not much.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

What a pathetic way of guilting your kids into doing something they should NOT have to do at all. This one really hit close to home for me.

I'm sorry for all the bad advice you're getting here.

Just so you know, I absolutely hated my life for many years because of my mother guilting me into respecting my dad when he didn't deserve it at all. This behavior by my mother (which is what you're doing right now) destroyed any self-confidence I might have had at crucial stages of my life. It set me up for major failures later in life. A lot of it got documented here. It also only contributed to a much strained relationship between me and my dad which is completely beyond repair at this point. I basically have no dad and my dad literally has no son. Only a bunch of distant memories carved in our brains. A very sad situation.

I somewhat healed (not even close to full healing), and I remind my mother every single time I see her what she did to me was disgraceful. She simply cries, agrees and goes to a corner with nothing but regrets.

You will end up being resented by your kids if you keep this up.

Just letting you know.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.


Holy crap, you are so wrong I'm speechless.

This is extremely bad advice.


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## AriYarjan (Mar 21, 2015)

Zouz said:


> It is celebrated ; and she is angry because kids didn't meet her expectations .


That is very sad mainly for your children - I can see why you are so bitter against her.

Is your wife of the same ethnic background and religion as you ?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.


They are too old for that. and he did not leave it up to them, he did have a good talk wiht them.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.


I really don't agree with this. Leave the kids alone.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Zouz said:


> I feel weired , guilty but realistic at the same time ;
> our kids ignored their mom on mother day ;of course they greeted her early in the morning , but didn't give her any present ; they just ignored it and went with a casual greeting.
> 
> My Wife , has ignored celebrating their events( birthday , parties, occasions ,etc...) over the years .
> ...


What date do you celebrate Mother's Day in your country?
I would tend to agree with your children. If their mother has ignored their special days, she has taught them what she cares about and how to behave. If she has a problem with that, she has a problem. Engaging her in conversation when she tries to blame you is taking her bait. Do not take the bait. Engaging her is answering a fool according to her folly. It does not make matter better. It is likely to make things worse. Just shrug and tell her you don't want to discuss it. Let her complain to the wind.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Respect is earned, even for parents. It is not disrespectful to stop treating someone better than they treat you.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

coffee4me said:


> It's not mean, vindictive or disrespectful for a child to make a choice not to celebrate Mother's Day with a mother that is abusive.
> 
> She is not a good mother to them and they choose not to falsely acknowledge her in that role.
> 
> They made a deliberate choice that reflects their feelings about her. I think it's disrespectful, dishonest and mean to force them to honor a mother who fails in that role.


I believe in karma n you read what you sow. Don't teach them to be a doormat. By telling them to still love n honour the mum like a real mum when she's not one will teach them to be doormat to their husbands in future.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

synthetic said:


> What a pathetic way of guilting your kids into doing something they should NOT have to do at all. This one really hit close to home for me.
> 
> I'm sorry for all the bad advice you're getting here.
> 
> ...



Good 


I told my kids a few principles, 

do unto others what u want others to do unto you and vice versa, in short return the same treatment 

And reap what you so, good and bad. 

So that applies to the father. I don't advocate any specific actions or non- actions for the father. They chose n I may comment. 

I only specify n speak on kids actions towards me N I m pretty strict.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

synthetic said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.
> ...


Yup not good advice to guilt trip kids.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Respect is earned, even for parents. It is not disrespectful to stop treating someone better than they treat you.


That's what I tell my ex.
Respect is earned, not entitled, even for royalties Or kingdoms fails.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Do not leave this up to the children to do on their own. In the future, until they are grown and/or as long as long as they are living the in house with her, you need to make a point of making sure they do this before the day when presents are given.


Elegirl ,

the worst dad I will be if I listen to your advises .

I am a good friend to my girls ; they are old enough to understand right from wrong ; they tell me their secrets , they ask me for advise ; If i am a bad father I deserve that they step on me and continue ; I will not loose their trust to fulfill a sick wife demands .

From now on if their mom wants to be respected by them and honored , she has to earn it .

The only thing I advise them but never force it is that They shall respect their mom in the way they talk to her ; but they have the right to express their opinion the way they want .


I am not easy going to my girls fulfilling everything they request ; I refuse many of their requests if they are not logical ; however , I use logic to defend my case ; and when completly fail , I just express that , they can argue about it , I have no problem ; but being the father who wants to protect you because I love you I will use my vito right .


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

AriYarjan said:


> That is very sad mainly for your children - I can see why you are so bitter against her.
> 
> Is your wife of the same ethnic background and religion as you ?


It is sad , but similar to their sadness when she hurt them in their occasions ...

My wife is from same ethnic background ;however not from same religious school of thought ...

A human being for me is worth going to haven and worth being treated respectfully irrespective of his religion and number of times he/she prays ...

My wife needs consultation , never accepted to do it ...


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Zouz

I worry for my sons n feel guilty n terrible for my boys that they have to experience a terrible father n divorce. But I have come to see that my boys have a much higher level of maturity now than before. So will your girls. For every situation, make it a teachable moment n explain n extract the best out of the bad situation. I told them. That's life. I told my boys learn from the good examples on what to do n learn from the bad examples on what not to do. So your girls will do well with your continued unwavering love and support. I can feel your love n also sadness exuding from your post. hugs and love for you 

I grew up in rough n tough environment n learn to survive. I can dress well, look like a lady, n I curse as well as the next man when needed much to the shock of some a## who tried to touch me. Don't worry. Your girls sound tough to be able to voice their thoughts n carry through with actions.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Zouz said:


> Elegirl ,
> 
> the worst dad I will be if I listen to your advises .
> 
> ...


THIS is the right course of action. They should speak in a respectful tone, but other than that, they owe her nothing. You are not responsible for their relationship with their mother, SHE is. And as much as you might like to see them all bond, it isnt going to happen without HER making that effort. I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to step between my daughter and her dad (my XH) to try and make him be a better dad to her, but always restrained myself, because that is on HIM. He is the one who will have to live with her barely having anything to do with him, that is his bed to lie in. 

Their mother should be ashamed of herself, honestly.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

tripad said:


> Zouz
> 
> I worry for my sons n feel guilty n terrible for my boys that they have to experience a terrible father n divorce. But I have come to see that my boys have a much higher level of maturity now than before. So will your girls. For every situation, make it a teachable moment n explain n extract the best out of the bad situation. I told them. That's life. I told my boys learn from the good examples on what to do n learn from the bad examples on what not to do. So your girls will do well with your continued unwavering love and support. I can feel your love n also sadness exuding from your post. hugs and love for you
> 
> I grew up in rough n tough environment n learn to survive. I can dress well, look like a lady, n I curse as well as the next man when needed much to the shock of some a## who tried to touch me. Don't worry. Your girls sound tough to be able to voice their thoughts n carry through with actions.



Thanks for your hugs ; nowadays I feel really only few friends and virtual hugs are enabling me to stand .

With A tinnitus that never make me sleep ; a brain tumor that is growing back and a charming wife ; things are black a bit ...

but i will fight and fight and fight until the last moments ; I still have a lot of strength and love.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> It's not mean, vindictive or disrespectful for a child to make a choice not to celebrate Mother's Day with a mother that is abusive.
> 
> She is not a good mother to them and they choose not to falsely acknowledge her in that role.
> 
> They made a deliberate choice that reflects their feelings about her. I think it's disrespectful, dishonest and mean to force them to honor a mother who fails in that role.


I agree with this.

Vindictive would've been the kids making cards that said.

"I truly hate that I have you for a mother...but you are what I was cursed with...so Thanks for giving birth to me"

I think the big mistake the OP is making is not calling his wife out on her behavior. It's repugnant that a grown woman is such an emotionally abusive woman who then gets mad when the kids rebel.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

we are seperated under the same roof , because i can not afford loosing my kids and leave them to be smashed.

Though she is hurting everybody ; time is against her now ; she is loosing gradually everything .

when she is raging , I am stopping her...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I have a lot more understanding of your situation now. I'm sorry you are dealing with all of this. It is good for you to remain with your children. They do not have a proper mother, but they do have a proper father and they need you very much.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

In my opinion you failed your kids by not telling her the truth. You protected you from her wrath but where is your loyalty to them? You then opened them up to emotional pain by making them apologise without first making sure she would behave in an appropriate manner. This further damaged their relationship with her. Yes, I do see selfishness in your actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

breeze said:


> In my opinion you failed your kids by not telling her the truth. You protected you from her wrath but where is your loyalty to them? You then opened them up to emotional pain by making them apologise without first making sure she would behave in an appropriate manner. This further damaged their relationship with her. Yes, I do see selfishness in your actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are talking hypothetically ; practically she doesn't have a relationship with them that can be damaged ; I just push them to respect their mom and apologize even if she is wrong because they might have used some body language expressions that could be misinterpreted ,but I am not shutting them down ; I alwys tell them , you have the right to express your disagreement for hours and an adult should listen as long as you are not disrespecting in words and body language .


I trained them to talk in school and home with respected even if they disagree.
*
The Bottom line is :It is not my job anymore to do sacrifices to maintain their emotions towards their mom ; If she wants anything beyond respect (emotions , trust ,etc...) she should do what I do ; I dedicate my self to listen , contribute and help in everything my kids do .*


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

breeze said:


> In my opinion you failed your kids by not telling her the truth. You protected you from her wrath but where is your loyalty to them? You then opened them up to emotional pain by making them apologise without first making sure she would behave in an appropriate manner. This further damaged their relationship with her. Yes, I do see selfishness in your actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Easy man.

I think we should understand that everyone comes from a different place and has different perspective n interpretation of things, n maybe different way of handling things whether it's right or wrong in ones opinion. 

Maybe Zouz may be gentler in his choice of action. It may not be right in your opinion. But definitely he's not doing it with a selfish motive. 

A selfish person would have pack n left, alone.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In a situation not much dissimilar to Zouz, I trained my girls well to provide minimal respect and nothing else to their mom... 

Mom reaps what she sows. For many years she's been too busy with herself and her work to care for them. So... John to the rescue. Kids are an abstraction to her...


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

john117 said:


> In a situation not much dissimilar to Zouz, I trained my girls well to provide minimal respect and nothing else to their mom...
> 
> Mom reaps what she sows. For many years she's been too busy with herself and her work to care for them. So... John to the rescue. Kids are an abstraction to her...


Mine is worse she is too busy to take care of them because she has two simple ambitions since we got married and even before :
-Sleep & do nothing .
-watch series of 200+ episodes .

She wake up every morning after everybody is ready to avoid doing sandwiches ; yet on a saturday she wake and leave the house before anybody get up ; also to avoid doing sandwiches ...


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

How are you doing today, Zouz?


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Hey Zouz 
More hugs n kisses. 

Hey u mentioned tumour in head, is it medical? Or I was wondering if you're candidly referring to the PITA spouse as the tumour? 

If it's seriously a tumour, hope u take care n see a doctor, your kids need you.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

AlisonBlaire said:


> How are you doing today, Zouz?


thanks alison ,
I am doing fine , spend the whole day with my kids ; they are the spark in my life .

I have a lot of new projects at work which keep me busy ; and a garden to start planting in spring


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

That's great to hear that you have spent time with the kids and are looking forward to planting a new garden. I hope things will get better for you.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

tripad said:


> Hey Zouz
> More hugs n kisses.
> 
> Hey u mentioned tumour in head, is it medical? Or I was wondering if you're candidly referring to the PITA spouse as the tumour?
> ...


Thanks tripad for your warm wishes, 

I have a pituitary benign brain tumor ; 
things are still under control medically.

It is disturbing but hopefully the symptoms will respond soon to treatment.

It is amazing to find caring people on TAM like you guys .

best


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Take care


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

Zouz, may your tumor respond to treatment, and may you be alright. Take care.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Zouz said:


> You are talking hypothetically ; practically she doesn't have a relationship with them that can be damaged ; I just push them to respect their mom and apologize even if she is wrong because they might have used some body language expressions that could be misinterpreted ,but I am not shutting them down ; I alwys tell them , you have the right to express your disagreement for hours and an adult should listen as long as you are not disrespecting in words and body language .
> 
> 
> I trained them to talk in school and home with respected even if they disagree.
> ...


I guess I see it from a different perspective. I don't see what I said as anything about trying to improve their relationship with her, I see it about protecting them from a damaging relationship. I also don't like the idea of having someone apologise to someone who will take the apology and use it to hurt them. What I see is in your story is that they stepped on a snake and their Dad told them to go apologise to the snake and the snake bit them. Who is at fault for them being bitten in this instance? You. If you know what she is like and what she will most likely do, you either don't put them in that situation or you muzzle her before hand.

I get the whole thing about treating a parent with respect etc, but I don't see this as a lesson about respect or forgiveness and more a lesson in how to open yourself up to being trodden on, and it's a lesson that will follow them into their future relationships.

Edited to add: I'm not attacking you, but I just see things in a different way, and sometimes it's beneficial to view things from another angle, sometimes it's not. Up to you. Either way, DH and I do this for our kids. I did need to tell my son to apologise to my father one time, a man who holds grudges, but I sure as hell made sure my father didn't spit it back in his face, and if he had of, I'd have ripped him a new one.


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