# Male Coworker calling my wife regularly on drive home



## nirvana

My wife has been a stay at home mom for many years and joined the workforce middle of last year. She did a contract job for some time and then got a permanent position in her current company. We are of Indian origin and this company has a lot of Indians working there.

My wife is very pretty, looks much younger than her age (late 30s), keeps herself in great shape with a lot of healthy eating and exercise. She also dresses elegantly but not provocatively. She sometimes asks me for my thoughts on an outfit and I usually tell her that it looks great on her and she could wear it to work also. Overall, she dresses professionally. She is very intelligent and has a Masters degree as well. Since she had a long career break to take care of the kids, she is behind where she could have been so her coworkers are mainly people with lesser skills, and she has to work her way up. She is also very social, friendly with everyone and converses with everybody who talks to her without any arrogance/ego issues. Unfortunately she is also a bit of a people-pleaser so she is not able to say no to anyone for fear of offending them. She also tends to get more work dumped on her because she cannot say no or complain but I think she will learn how to deal with this with experience.

She tells me about the gossip and funny stuff that happens at work so I know the names of all her co-workers. Every now and then she would say things like "Amy said this..." or "Steve was telling me that...". Steve (name changed, he is Indian too) is a coworker in a different division but works with my wife and her team on some projects. I keep hearing his name come up when she tells me about stuff at work. Someone left the company, so a position opened up and my wife wanted it so she told me about it. I felt that she should apply immediately before someone else did. To that she remarked that Steve said she should apply to it next week so as to not seem desperate". He is from the same state in India as we are so my wife and he have a common language that they speak that other Indians from other states do not understand so he tries to speak to her in that language with inside jokes. She does tell me a lot about her overweight loud-mouth coworker Melissa and her team lead who another woman. 

Anyway, about 10 days ago, she was driving back home from work and I was commuting back as well, so I thought I'd talk to her. I called her and she said she was just done talking to Steve. I was slightly taken aback because I did not expect Steve to have her number and call after work, but did not say anything and we talked for some time and disconnected. Then last Wednesday, on the way back from work I called her and it went to voice mail. After about 20 minutes, she calls me and says that she was talking to Steve. I winced when I heard that. Again??

I was annoyed but I did not show, but I felt it was something I needed to look into. I checked up our cell phone records online and saw a call from a number to my wife's cellphone about 10 minutes after she left work and the call was about 25 minutes. I searched on that number and was amazed to see many calls from this number over many days and all starting around the same time of day when she left work. One time it seemed like the line got disconnected and my wife called back but all other calls were from him to my wife. The calls started from July-end at a frequency of about once a week. It shot up to calling every evening for the last 10 days. The longest call was for 35 minutes. One day my wife did not pick up so he tried a few times and then gave up. I thought of talking to my wife about it, but thought I'd give it another day to cool down and plan how to go about it the right way. So on Thursday, I did not call her and then checked the records at night and saw that there was a call from that number but my wife did not pick up. I could not talk to her for some reason that evening, but Friday evening I called her on the way back and some 15 minutes along, I hear a beep on the line. She told me it was Steve trying to call and she did not want to talk to him.

That was it. I had to do something.

Saturday came, and in the evening, the kids went into the basement to play and we were upstairs and she was in a good mood since we went to the temple (she loves that) and did some shopping at the outlet mall. I held her tight next to me and told her I wanted to talk to her about something and told her that I had been hearing about "Steve" a bit too often and he seems to be calling her a lot outside of work hours and I wasn't comfortable with that. I said that it was inappropriate for a man to constantly call up a married female co-worker every evening to chat. She said she agreed and felt the same way and had stopped picking up when he called for the last few days (the truth). She would only talk to him to get the news/gossip from around the company because he was very clued in, but she agreed that he was calling a bit too much. At first she would pick up and talk because she did not want to be rude and ignore him but it was now getting annoying for her since he was calling every evening.

I told her that as a guy myself, I know how other guys think. Most Indian women in that company are not very social with other men and my wife is both social and good looking, so when Steve made initial conversation and she talked to him in a friendly way, he probably might have thought that she was interested in being friends (or maybe more?). It's a weird situation where he most likely is not looking to cheat on his wife, but he is probably looking to flirt a bit, enjoy talking to a pretty girl, maybe take her out to lunch/coffee etc like a fake-date and talk personal stuff and maybe be her "work husband" or something. 

I told my wife that this is how he would gain her confidence and then slowly push the boundary by moving into texting, then facebook friending, talk about deeply personal stuff. Then he might engineer things so that he would find her in the cafe by herself (she eats alone after the crowd has gone) and just stop by and talk. Or ask to meet outside for coffee/lunch. I asked if she had lunch/coffee with him in the cafe or during lunch time and she said no. The place is so busy she barely gets time to have lunch.

She agreed that it was a bit too much, and maybe he was getting ideas and that she would ignore his calls. I told her that we will do this for 7-10 days and if he does not get the hint, I will send him a friendly email asking him to keep things professional. If he still did not get it, then an email to HR, his boss and worse, his wife would be next as Step 3. I had already looked him up, found out where he lived, knew his wife's name, her FB page and her email address. My wife said it was not necessary for me to intervene and she would handle it and she would make it evident that she will talk about work issues only during work hours.

I trust my wife, and even though we fight and argue like other couples, I think our marriage is quite good. She had already been talking about leaving the company and finding another place with better pay/work so he is not a factor. She leaves her facebook, email and phone open at all times and I saw nothing in there. When I brought it up, she didn't have this "OMG I am caught" look. Her phone had his calls with his name on it, so she wasn't trying to hide anything. I am in a "Trust but Verify" mode as this is new territory for us where she is at some place by herself without me being around her, so she there will be the possibility of guys hitting on her. I will check on this in about a week and see how things are.


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## Yeswecan

Appears to me you have things handled. It also appears your W really was not getting it that the coworker was calling too much. I would let your W handle it. Keep vigilant. The coworker might attempt other means of communication.


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## brooklynAnn

I agree with YesWC. You have handled things and opened her eyes to what might happen. So keep your position of trust but verify. 

Let your wife handle her coworker. It will give her the confidence and assurance that you trust her to take care of things. Keep watching. :nerd:


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## nirvana

Thanks Yeswecan and BrooklynAnn.
I wanted to post about what happened and my response just to make sure I had all or most things covered and wasn't making any obvious mistakes. I agree, it is best to let her manage things. She hates being rude to outsiders so pushy aggressive people tend to take her for a ride.

Her phone does not have a pass code so it is always open. I saw only 1 set of texts between them and it was about a work related issue from 2 months ago. I would avoid using personal phone for work issues, but I guess this is not a big deal. I don't think he has a FB account but his wife does and his picture is in it. 

The general trend is that Indian women tend to put on a lot of weight after age 35 and after having kids. He has a web page on the internet that I found with their pictures from 1999 and she was slim and nice looking. Her recent FB pictures show her to be overweight. This could be another reason for a roving eye. My wife bucks the trend and so stands out somewhat. Last night, she tried on a long black skirt with a nice top and asked me how she looked and whether she it was okay to wear it to work. I said she looked mind-blowing and she should definitely wear it to work! 

He seems to be the friendly social sort and my wife says he sometimes stops by her cube to chat (he does it to others also), and these types are good at figuring out what a woman likes to talk about, or is passionate about in order to ingratiate himself to her. In the case of my wife, it is men who "spend a lot of time with the kids". I am not sure if he has tried discussing kids.

I will post here if there are any updates. I just wanted to post because I had some some similar threads here when I looked up "wife coworker".


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## Marc878

You'd be wise to stop this before it gets started.

He's overstepping his bounds and your wife should know better.

This is how affairs start.

Keep a sharp on on it.

Step in sooner than later or you may wish you had.

Good luck


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## turnera

Many women are unaware that most men think with their other brain.


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## Satya

Trust your wife. 

Then verify.


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## SecondTime'Round

I think both you and your wife are handling it correctly so far. She sounds like a very lovely woman.


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## lovelygirl

I think she's handling this quite good. At least she didn't try to hide anything so that's the very good sign. She seems to be understandable and quite mature.


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## Constable Odo

For some reason, people seem to have a problem differentiating between "work" and "personal" lives.

For instance, I do not (generally, I've broken this 'rule' twice in the past 25 years) hang out with co-workers after work hours. I get invited constantly to participate in after-work events, to which I politely refuse. On several occasions, one of the more 'social' women at work (let's call her Gail) was pressuring me to attend an after-work event (soup kitchen volunteer activity), and I had to explain to her in rather blunt language that I wasn't interested. She was immensely offended, just as she was immensely offended when I explained to her I wouldn't be inviting her over my home anytime soon to socialize with me and my SO (whom she has met and knows I am devoted to.) Granted, I could probably use somewhat more political language, but sometimes you need to use a sledgehammer on tack.)

I suppose this is a larger potential problem for someone with an extrovert personality. Especially for women. When a man engages a woman in chat, if a woman responds and engages back, many men will misinterpret it as interest. Thus, women who are extremely outgoing usually need to learn, though a life lesson, that they have to 'tone down' their personality a bit as to not cause a misunderstanding with men they interact with.

Your wife may need to learn this lesson.

Other than that, she seems like a nice woman. What's her number?

(sorry, couldn't resist )


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## tom67

You handled it well.
Now shut up about it like it's an afterthought and verify.


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## nirvana

Yes, my discussion with my wife was on Saturday and we have not talked about it since. She hasn't mentioned it and neither have I. I have been looking at cell phone records and I don't see anything in there, and her phone is clear too (though she can erase it, I don't think she cares to). Her FB and email are open all the time and I see her history and it's mainly FB and some sites on clothes and health and kids.

She ignored his calls on Thu and Fri (I know for sure as she told me without knowing that I knew it already) and I have not seen any calls on Mon and Tue. I would be surprised if he got the message that quickly.

The only thing is she might refrain from saying "You know... Steve was telling me that..." because she knows that word "Steve" would bug me. Her behavior has been open as always and I see no change or reason for suspicion.

turnera, you are right... since you have followed my earlier threads, my wife tends to judge people more at face value rather than deeply investigating several levels below like how women are generally capable of doing. I am told that women have that intuition. She has been badly disappointed many times by people who said nice things in the beginning. So its a combination of this guy being the type who is friendly/talkative and fishing around for some fun, and my wife is looking for someone to get the scoop on things in the company. 

She has an interview set up for this new role that she wants to get into and I have been helping her prepare. She's been working hard by herself also. She is perfect for the position and I hope she gets it!

I think I will ask her in about 10-14 days or so. If nothing, then the matter will be closed.


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## nirvana

It's been about 10 days since his last call and I have been monitoring the cell phone logs and also her phone. My wife behaves normally as she always has, with email, Facebook, phone open at all times. She has not mentioned his name and neither have I asked. I am a bit surprised because I was expecting that he would try a few times more. The last time he tried was 28 Aug when she was on the line with me. She did not switch to talking to him at that time. He tried to call the previous day 27 Aug and she ignored him. That was 2 days of ignoring before I spoke to her about it. I wonder if he gave up calling so quickly? I'll keep an eye on things in any case.


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## knightRider

It does sound that your wife was in or the verge of an emotional affair with this other guy. Keep monitoring the situation for some time and that will put you at ease. 

If the colleague stopped calling suddenly then it's likely your wife had a word with him.


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## The Middleman

Do you think that their conversations have gone "underground "? All contact either in person, over company e-mail or on company phones. Do you suspect use of a burner phone? I know that this might be over the top, but consider this. It happens all the time.


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## Kahlil Gibran

Maybe its just the nature of their business. No shenanigans. Just structured this way.

Where I work we have a central office, but most of us work from home sometimes, sometimes in the office or are all over town meeting with clients. Some of us are male some are female. On a lot of projects, I collaborate with another staff member who is the opposite sex. We will text, email or call each other a lot. Not sure how else we would get anything done.


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## Mrs.Submission

You and your wife handled this well. You did not accuse her or get irrationally angry which is good. 

It sounds like your wife could use some help in setting boundaries; I recognize this because I am also a recovering people pleaser. 

She needs to learn to stand up for herself without feeling guilty about hurting other people's feelings.


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## Jasel

Do you have access to the cell phone bill?? You can always delete call logs, missed calls, texts, etc from the phone itself.


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## bandit.45

Some women can get deep and thick into an emotional affair with a boss or coworker and literally not realize it is happening until it's already too late. 

Some players, like your wife's coworker, are willing to bide their time and play the long game to get a woman in bed. 

If this clown doesn't stop, you may have to step in and have a come-to-Jesus meeting with him.


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## nirvana

The Middleman said:


> Do you think that their conversations have gone "underground "? All contact either in person, over company e-mail or on company phones. Do you suspect use of a burner phone? I know that this might be over the top, but consider this. It happens all the time.


Highly unlikely. She is not very tech savvy to go out and get another phone without letting me know, and besides if she did so, it would be brazen cheating with no gray area. She would need to be 100% done with our marriage to even go there. We have our usual fights and arguments, but we are not "done" by any means. 

The only thing possible is conversation in person in the office, over office messaging or email. I cannot monitor those.


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## turnera

Mrs.Submission said:


> You and your wife handled this well. You did not accuse her or get irrationally angry which is good.
> 
> It sounds like your wife could use some help in setting boundaries; I recognize this because I am also a recovering people pleaser.
> 
> She needs to learn to stand up for herself without feeling guilty about hurting other people's feelings.


There's an awesome little book, easy read, that psychologists often recommend for this. It's written for women who have a hard time saying no to people, people pleasers. It's called The Dance Of Anger.


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## turnera

nirvana said:


> Highly unlikely. She is not very tech savvy to go out and get another phone without letting me know, and besides if she did so, it would be brazen cheating with no gray area. She would need to be 100% done with our marriage to even go there. We have our usual fights and arguments, but we are not "done" by any means.


If she's being played by a player, as bandit suggests, he will plant the idea of a burner phone in her, he will be able to make it sound LOGICAL to do so...to avoid hurting people's feelings or whatever...and will then proceed to GIVE her one, and she won't even know what hit her.


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## nirvana

Mrs.Submission said:


> You and your wife handled this well. You did not accuse her or get irrationally angry which is good.
> 
> It sounds like your wife could use some help in setting boundaries; I recognize this because I am also a recovering people pleaser.
> 
> She needs to learn to stand up for herself without feeling guilty about hurting other people's feelings.


Thanks Mrs Sub. I wanted to take that I did not come across as an insecure controlling freak, so I just made my case that I did not approve of his after-work calls (very reasonable) and left it at that for her to deal with. 

She has a high level of people-pleasing behavior, so I suspect that this made her put up with the calls even if she may have not wanted to take them. She displays this behavior all the time, we invite people over for dinner, and she acts like a waitress rather than a hostess. I have to force her to eat with us rather than at the end. I am not sure what I can do to rid her of this. Everyone in her side of the family has this to various levels. I even sent her articles on this so she can identify them in herself, but I don't think she has read them.


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## turnera

Give her the book I recommended. Tell her you read a review about it and thought it might be interesting. Read it first yourself.


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## nirvana

Jasel said:


> Do you have access to the cell phone bill?? You can always delete call logs, missed calls, texts, etc from the phone itself.


Yes, I have been monitoring them and it is clean since 26 Aug. No calls to or from him, but many calls from her other friends and from me. Of course, that only means that they have not conversed over phone. If she picks up, it shows up on the online record. It is possible that there are missed calls that have been deleted on the phone and those will not show up online in the records. I think it is unlikely that she deleted them because she did not care to delete them earlier, and all the calls he made to her phone before 26 Aug are still on the phone. 

She has never appeared to be hiding anything either and even told me on 2 occasions that she was talking to him during the commute (which is what made me look into it). She talks to me about switching to a new group at work, getting some experience, and then switching companies. 

Nothing she does/says is a red flags as far as I can tell. I am only surprised that he stopped called abruptly from what I can tell. Did 2 days of getting ignored hit home? She ignored them even before she knew that I had sniffed something and before I talked to her about so the process had already started.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> If she's being played by a player, as bandit suggests, he will plant the idea of a burner phone in her, he will be able to make it sound LOGICAL to do so...to avoid hurting people's feelings or whatever...and will then proceed to GIVE her one, and she won't even know what hit her.


Possible... I will continue to stay on high alert. 
I'll take a look at that book.


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## Mrs.Submission

turnera said:


> There's an awesome little book, easy read, that psychologists often recommend for this. It's written for women who have a hard time saying no to people, people pleasers. It's called The Dance Of Anger.


I've read that book! Great piece!

I've become much better at setting boundaries by working with my therapist, reading books and discussing my people pleasing with my husband.


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## nirvana

bandit.45 said:


> Some women can get deep and thick into an emotional affair with a boss or coworker and literally not realize it is happening until it's already too late.
> 
> Some players, like your wife's coworker, are willing to bide their time and play the long game to get a woman in bed.
> 
> If this clown doesn't stop, you may have to step in and have a come-to-Jesus meeting with him.


One of the things my wife complains about is that I don't "spend enough time with the kids" and "do not help out in the kitchen enough". Now we just visited her sister for the weekend and her husband is exactly that type. Always in the kitchen arranging things, or with the kids, or putting them to sleep. Interestingly that highly irritated my wife! She was criticizing the same behaviors that she was angry that I did not exhibit to the level she supposedly wanted! Looks like women don't really like feminized men though some claim that they do. Anyway, kids and nutrition/health are her favorite topics, so some guy may be able to be friends by talking about that. This guy is not attractive or healthy, he has a huge paunch in his mid 40s. But stranger things have happened.

I just have to keep monitoring.


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## tom67

nirvana said:


> One of the things my wife complains about is that I don't "spend enough time with the kids" and "do not help out in the kitchen enough". Now we just visited her sister for the weekend and her husband is exactly that type. Always in the kitchen arranging things, or with the kids, or putting them to sleep. Interestingly that highly irritated my wife! She was criticizing the same behaviors that she was angry that I did not exhibit to the level she supposedly wanted! Looks like women don't really like feminized men though some claim that they do. Anyway, kids and nutrition/health are her favorite topics, so some guy may be able to be friends by talking about that. This guy is not attractive or healthy, he has a huge paunch in his mid 40s. But stranger things have happened.
> 
> I just have to keep monitoring.


Sounds like a classic sh!t test.
Helping around the house is fine but becoming a butler is never attractive.
Read MMSLP again for a refresher.


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## Mrs.Submission

nirvana said:


> Thanks Mrs Sub. I wanted to take that I did not come across as an insecure controlling freak, so I just made my case that I did not approve of his after-work calls (very reasonable) and left it at that for her to deal with.
> 
> She has a high level of people-pleasing behavior, so I suspect that this made her put up with the calls even if she may have not wanted to take them. She displays this behavior all the time, we invite people over for dinner, and she acts like a waitress rather than a hostess. I have to force her to eat with us rather than at the end. I am not sure what I can do to rid her of this. Everyone in her side of the family has this to various levels. I even sent her articles on this so she can identify them in herself, but I don't think she has read them.


You sound like such a good husband. Sometimes people pleasing women need their spouses to help them set limits. 

My hubby will tell me to put my phone down if we are spending time together and someone needs my help. We once had a problem with one of my cousins constantly coming over and my husband put a stop to that because I felt too guilty to say no. After that incident, my husband and I had a long talk about why I feel the need to help everyone. He told me that he loves how kind I am but I also need to think about myself. 

Is your wife willing to read books or see a therapist?


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## turnera

nirvana said:


> One of the things my wife complains about is that I don't "spend enough time with the kids" and "do not help out in the kitchen enough". Now we just *visited her sister* for the weekend and her husband is exactly that type. Always in the kitchen arranging things, or with the kids, or putting them to sleep. Interestingly that highly irritated my wife! She was criticizing the same behaviors that she was angry that I did not exhibit to the level she supposedly wanted! Looks like women don't really like feminized men though some claim that they do. Anyway, kids and nutrition/health are her favorite topics, so some guy may be able to be friends by talking about that. This guy is not attractive or healthy, he has a huge paunch in his mid 40s. But stranger things have happened.


You realize sisters compete, right? Subconsciously, they are always comparing themselves to each other. And women often say one thing while meaning the opposite. I, too, would want my husband to be involved with the kids and the kitchen. Every day my H doesn't just sit on the couch, sleep, or surf the web, I like him a little more than the previous day when that's all he did. I didn't marry him so I could be the slave and he the king.


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## TAMAT

Nirvana,

You wrote, *This guy is not attractive or healthy, he has a huge paunch in his mid 40s. But stranger things have happened.*

There is a danger in the fact that OM is not attractive, in that your W might not suspect his true intent until he has his emotional hooks into her, it happens slowly. 

Your W should never discuss her marriage with any men nor allow men to complain to her about their marriages. This is the classic starting point for an affair with a difficult to get woman.

My W had gotten into a relationship of some sort with an 80+ year old man through constant conversation. Eventually my W told him his attentions were inappropriate, but not until after I recognized what was happening and put an end to it.

Tamat


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## nirvana

Tamat, I agree. I think that might have been what was happening until I stepped in. I don't think my W will discuss our marriage with other people. 
I think I will ask her about the calls once this weekend and then put an end to this.


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## nirvana

After a lull of a few weeks, I noticed another call from him at 12:49pm today. He called and they spoke for 22 seconds. Then another one where he called again 4 minutes later and she did not pick up (missed call). He may have decided to lay low for some time before starting again. I will keep a watch. It did seem strange that he would just stop after calling for 10 days in a row.
I don't want to be the controlling husband but there are some things I draw the line at, and I will wait to see if he keeps calling and if she picks up over the next few days.


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## knightRider

Time for you to speak to this guy and put him straight. 

I had to do the same thing. I phoned the guy at work and told him to back off. 

Maybe put a VAR on your wife, it helped me keep a track on her. Also phone monitoring is useful.


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## turnera

I agree. Pay him a visit. Sometimes that's all it takes.


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## tom67

turnera said:


> I agree. Pay him a visit. Sometimes that's all it takes.


:iagree:
Calm but to the point time for some c0ckblocking.


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## nirvana

The call on Wednesday was at 12:49pm, slight after or during lunch. That day they had a team lunch in the office to celebrate birthdays for the month and do it every month. I wonder if it is regarding that. Or maybe it was something to do with work, but I cannot figure out why he will call her on her cell instead of stopping by or sending an email.

There was nothing on Thursday and I am watching closely. I put a tracker app on her phone so I can see where she goes during the day. My personal feeling is that she is not interested, but being an ultra people pleaser, she will never be rude to anyone (except me sometimes) so when men hit on her, she will just put up with it and try to be polite about it. That may explain the 22 second call, and her not picking up 4 minutes later when he called.

His earlier calls were during the drive back from 4:50pm onwards when he would talk for 20 minutes of so, so this is different. Let's see what happens today. She stands out among the Indian women there as intelligent, social, good looking and a good dresser (without being provocative), so that may be the reason. And I don't stop her from dressing as she likes and she never crosses the line.


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## knightRider

"My personal feeling is that she is not interested, but being an ultra people pleaser, she will never be rude to anyone (except me sometimes) so when men hit on her, she will just put up with it and try to be polite about it. That may explain the 22 second call, and her not picking up 4 minutes later when he called."

That's not the point. Appears that another man is "hitting" on your wife. Are you going to sit back?

Also, I've never believed this "my wife is a people pleaser" bull. Women know very well that they are "tagging guys along"


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## nirvana

I was sure that he was trying to hit on her in August because he was trying to be her phone-commute-buddy on the way back every day. There's been nothing for about 4 weeks until last week. He may be trying again but I am not completely sure. I am monitoring her phone records and her email/fb/phone are always open (as always) so I have been peeking there too. There is nothing I see that makes me suspicious, even from her internet history where she just looks at clothes and shoe websites or parenting sites. I am waiting to get more proof of his calls for me to talk to her again and insist on some action. I don't think it's come to the point where I have to talk to him and possibly mess up the environment for her at work (she could blame me for causing a scene). 
She was a SAHM and wife for 15 years and looks good and maintains herself well so maybe she felt a little flattered with the outside male attention that was not there after we got married. But I think she knows the boundaries of that.


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## knightRider

"I don't think it's come to the point where I have to talk to him and possibly mess up the environment for her at work (she could blame me for causing a scene). "

Not sure I agree with this. Maybe because it hits a raw nerve with me. 

If you talk to him tactfully and assertively, then it should work. Anyway, what's the worst that can happen? The guy's hitting on your wife, you have a right to step in. If this guy is married, how will his wife like the fact that he is flirting at work?

What do you value more, your wife's job or some skunk trying it on with her there?

Good luck with your decision. Do let us know what happens.


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## turnera

I don't think you talking to him in a calm, confident way ("Is this really what it looks like, dude? Do you really want to go there?") would create a scene at work. It's inconceivable to me that he would even mention this to anyone at work, let alone make trouble for her.


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## nirvana

KR and turnera, thanks for both your responses and believe me, I considered both your viewpoints.

My wife is currently in a "I need to prove myself at work" mode which means that she is overdoing everything and not pushing back, so if I walk in and do anything that causes any problem there, she is going to be really mad at me. She has interviewed for a business position which became vacant when someone left and looks highly likely to get it but she is stressed about it.

The other guy called in the afternoon (12:39PM and during work hours) last Wed for only 22 seconds on a day when they had a monthly team birthday lunch, so it looks unlikely that a nice friendly gossip/chat took place. It could have been something work related, I don't know (and didn't ask). If I go talk or communicate with him in any way without her knowing, she will be really mad and be pissed that I don't trust her to handle it. Back in August, she said she will handle it and from all indications, she has done it. She doesn't mention his name anymore while discussing the days events at work maybe because she knows I don't like it.

We have enough going on that I know she doesn't want to complicate life further so I'll keep watching to see if he tries to make other moves. It's a fact of life that good looking women get hit on pretty much every where and I cannot be her bodyguard everywhere but I have to watch for when it threatens the family.


----------



## jdawg2015

nirvana, while I definitely respect your approach, I suggest you call him on his phone and tell him you'd appreciate he back off. Tell him you where looking at your phone bill and that he seems to be a little to keen for your comfort.

At that point he knows you see what's going on. Make no mistake the guy is definitely trying. These things are best nipped early.

And if there is any wrinkle between you and your wife make sure it's addressed. It's the down times in a relationship where these kinds of guys can do damage if he gives her the nice compliment on a day she's pissed at you for not taking out the garbage...


----------



## snerg

nirvana said:


> KR and turnera, thanks for both your responses and believe me, I considered both your viewpoints.
> 
> My wife is currently in a "I need to prove myself at work" mode which means that she is overdoing everything and not pushing back,


Really? So your relationship suffers because of this?
She should be looking to you as support, not another male at the company.




nirvana said:


> so if I walk in and do anything that causes any problem there, she is going to be really mad at me. She has interviewed for a business position which became vacant when someone left and looks highly likely to get it but she is stressed about it.


Again, so your marriage gets to suffer? She's allowed to get support from someone else?




nirvana said:


> We have enough going on that I know she doesn't want to complicate life further so I'll keep watching to see if he tries to make other moves. It's a fact of life that good looking women get hit on pretty much every where and I cannot be her bodyguard everywhere but I have to watch for when it threatens the family.


complicate life further - that's exactly what she's doing. Making your marriage more complicated. I don't buy that "I'm just being nice to get this position" bull.

It's also bull that good looking women get hit on and she can't do anything about it. I guarantee if shes as attractive as you claim, she knows dang well how to shut any and everything down.

You don't need to be her body guard - she's a grown woman. She should behave in a way to build trust, not erode it.


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## knightRider

Nirvana,

seriously, you have nothing to loose here. You have a right to check this guy out. She has an orbiter, you appear to be rationalising her behaviour and sitting back while another man tries to play with your Mrs. 

Sure, guys can make hits on a pretty married woman, but this is different, she has shown interest in him....


----------



## jdawg2015

knightRider said:


> Nirvana,
> 
> seriously, you have nothing to loose here. You have a right to check this guy out. She has an orbiter, you appear to be rationalising her behaviour and sitting back while another man tries to play with your Mrs.
> 
> Sure, guys can make hits on a pretty married woman, but this is different, she has shown interest in him....


Yup, his spidey senses are kicking in but he's not acting.

You don't log onto a marriage problem forum if things are not off kilter.

OP, your gut tells you this is a huge problem. Act on it my man!


----------



## arbitrator

*Trust, but verify! And hide a good quality VAR up under her car seat after reviewing your cell phone calling usage records!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

arbitrator said:


> *Trust, but verify! And hide a good quality VAR up under her car seat after reviewing your cell phone calling usage records!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
I think I agree:grin2:
Stop walking on eggshells this is your marriage.


----------



## nirvana

snerg, what are you talking about? 
You are just pulling out things that I never said and asking me if I meant that?

As far as I can see, she has shut him down without ruining the work relationship. That is why I am not stepping in because I don't see this as having escalated. The call he made on Wednesday was 22 seconds and just past noon rather than the usual 5pm calls he used to make. I am watching though and if it gets worse, I will step in.


----------



## nirvana

knightRider said:


> Nirvana,
> 
> seriously, you have nothing to loose here. You have a right to check this guy out. She has an orbiter, you appear to be rationalising her behaviour and sitting back while another man tries to play with your Mrs.
> 
> Sure, guys can make hits on a pretty married woman, but this is different, she has shown interest in him....


KR, I don't think she has shown interest in him. She had even told me that he called before I began to investigate saying she was talking to him to get inside gossip into what was happening. She is the social type and talks to everybody and some men, (especially Indian men) may take that to be interest. It looks to me that interest is just on his side. She is now unhappy with the company and the work culture now, so it talking about looking elsewhere.


----------



## nirvana

jdawg2015 said:


> Yup, his spidey senses are kicking in but he's not acting.
> 
> You don't log onto a marriage problem forum if things are not off kilter.
> 
> OP, your gut tells you this is a huge problem. Act on it my man!



Well, there were other issues (outside of this) which I had problems with and I posted on here. Most are kind of common in couples like lack of appreciation etc.

In this case, I don't think my wife is looking to have an affair. I am watching her phone, email, FB etc (she leaves them all open). I can't guarantee what the coworker is thinking, but I cannot control what other guys think anyway. There has been nothing from her side that I saw (no emails/texts) to this guy (and none from him either). I don't want her to think that I don't trust her or will micro-manage every part of her life.
Of course, that doesn't mean that I will sit with my eyes and ears closed.

So no, I would have acted if I suspected that things had gotten worse in a month, he may still be talking to her at work but I don't want to be the husbands who restricts everything. Beyond that, there is only so much I can do, if she wants to destroy her marriage, there isn't much I can do to stop it. My feeling is she does not want to do that, and I have to trust her on that.


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## jdawg2015

nirvana, I think you've handled this well but you know your gut is telling you something is off.

Don't rug sweep it or bury it. If this were me, I would have a frank and open discussion about boundaries because things can repeat.

From the way you've described it, and for a guy to be calling her on the way home you are definitely right to be concerned and paying attention too it.
Your wife has been open and honest about it so that's a really good sign. But, she did put his contact into her phone and had conversations with him. That makes you uncomfortable (for good reason) so I think you need to sit her down and air things out. 

Will this not be something that's hard to let go and you end up having to snoop for quite a while? If so, you need to get aligned with your wife on boundaries asap. It's not micro managing as your feelings and comfort level as her spouse matter as well.


----------



## nirvana

jdawg2015 said:


> nirvana, I think you've handled this well but you know your gut is telling you something is off.
> 
> Don't rug sweep it or bury it. If this were me, I would have a frank and open discussion about boundaries because things can repeat.
> 
> From the way you've described it, and for a guy to be calling her on the way home you are definitely right to be concerned and paying attention too it.
> Your wife has been open and honest about it so that's a really good sign. But, she did put his contact into her phone and had conversations with him. That makes you uncomfortable (for good reason) so I think you need to sit her down and air things out.
> 
> Will this not be something that's hard to let go and you end up having to snoop for quite a while? If so, you need to get aligned with your wife on boundaries asap. It's not micro managing as your feelings and comfort level as her spouse matter as well.



Hi jdawg,
I am not sure if you have been following the thread in its details, but the guy (an married fellow-Indian coworker) was calling her back in August. At the end of Aug, it was every evening on the commute back. That is when I stepped in and talked to my wife about it on a Saturday (late August) and told her that it was inappropriate for him to be calling her after work hours and he had other motives. She said she would deal with it herself and after that there were no calls from him in the evening on the way back (I have been monitoring). She had ignored 2 of his calls even before I talked to her. Since that, there was only 1 call last Wed during work hours, it could be for any reason, just a short 22 second one. Likely a work related one. I am a computer engineer, so I am good with technology, and I have been monitoring things and there is nothing that I can see. Even earlier, there were no texts or emails, just the evening calls which have now stopped. 

I want to avoid jumping the gun and making a big deal about it since it looks like she has communicated in some way that she is not interested, but I think I will talk to her over the weekend in a relaxed setting and ask her what he has been up to and if he has been trying anything clever. I think it is unnecessary to talk to him because he isn't calling her on the way back anymore. If he still was, then I would have.

I cannot control what others do, but I can have expectations on how my wife responds to it.


----------



## tom67

Just observe don't obsess.:smile2:
Sounds like it is nothing but I would do a var for a week or two but that is just me.
Anyway.


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## nirvana

tom67 said:


> Just observe don't obsess.:smile2:
> Sounds like it is nothing but I would do a var for a week or two but that is just me.
> Anyway.


But what will a VAR prove in this situation? There are no conversations over her cell phone for sure. The only thing is a burner phone, and I don't think she will go to that extent, because at that point, there is no deniability and no going back. 

The only thing I cannot monitor is her actions at her work place outside of technology. If she wants, she can have lunch/coffee etc with him I wouldn't know. After a point, I cannot hold on to someone who doesn't want to be with me. I don't think we have reached that point yet.  It's her first year in the work force after 15 years so she is in a people pleasing mode with everyone including her boss (55 yr old lady) but she will learn to push back and say no eventually.


----------



## jdawg2015

nirvana said:


> I cannot control what others do, *but I can have expectations on how my wife responds to it.*



Your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying to you. If you thought it was no big deal you'd have found no reason to keep an eye out.

I'm saying the best way to handle this is tell her that it bothered you and discuss how you'd like things handled in the future.

You can not control her but I'd use this as an opportunity to firm up the boundaries on phone/text/email communication. 

I would wonder how he ended up in her phone to begin with....


----------



## nirvana

jdawg2015 said:


> Your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying to you. If you thought it was no big deal you'd have found no reason to keep an eye out.
> 
> I'm saying the best way to handle this is tell her that it bothered you and discuss how you'd like things handled in the future.
> 
> You can not control her but I'd use this as an opportunity to firm up the boundaries on phone/text/email communication.
> 
> I would wonder how he ended up in her phone to begin with....



But I did that on Aug 29, sat her down and talked to her about it. She agreed readily and said his constant calls were getting annoying. The last 2 calls she had ignored herself and one was when I was on the line with her and she said "Oh it is Steve, I won't pick up". 

There is nothing really new that I can bring up with her other than to ask her if he is bothering her again.

I am in a trust but verify mode, because I don't think the problem is worsening.

He works across different teams as he is in software infrastructure. She has other coworkers in her phone (all women) but this guy must have manufactured some excuse to get her number like "I am working on this after 5pm, if there is an issue I will call you... can you give me your number?". It is possible that she was flattered by the attention, I did not ask her, as it is embarrassing to us both. Nothing really bad happened, so I am okay to forget about his August calls as long as they don't repeat and that is what I am monitoring.


----------



## farsidejunky

The only reason to use a VAR in this scenario is if you suspect a burner phone. I don't think it has reached that point by any stretch.


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## Nucking Futs

You guys need to calm down. Nirvana handled this situation weeks ago, his wife knows how he feels and she shut the guy down. There's no need to confront this guy now unless he continues to attempt contact and won't take her no for an answer.


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## jdawg2015

nirvana said:


> Nothing really bad happened, so I am okay to forget about his August calls as long as they don't repeat and that is what I am monitoring.


All good my man. Just as long as this won't cause you to have to be in long-term snoop mode which is unhealthy so that's why I make a fuss about clarity on boundaries. 

Sounds like your wife is solid and took your input to heart. That's the KEY part of this.


----------



## knightRider

nirvana said:


> KR, I don't think she has shown interest in him. She had even told me that he called before I began to investigate saying she was talking to him to get inside gossip into what was happening. She is the social type and talks to everybody and some men, (especially Indian men) may take that to be interest. It looks to me that interest is just on his side. She is now unhappy with the company and the work culture now, so it talking about looking elsewhere.


Fair enough, if that's what you believe. But talking to the OM every day to "catch up on gossip" seems excessive to me. So to me that sounds like she showed an interest in him.

Anyway, as jdawg2015 suggests, boundary setting is of essence here. Sure, you cannot control her, nor should you try to, but mention your boundaries to her in a non confrontational way. 

Good luck.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Nucking Futs said:


> You guys need to calm down. Nirvana handled this situation weeks ago, his wife knows how he feels and she shut the guy down. There's no need to confront this guy now *unless he continues to attempt contact and won't take her no for an answer.*



I'll get to the bold in a minute, but I agree with this post. IF, it is truly a case of not understanding that it was inappropriate. I reread your original post, OP. That was a lot of communication. AFTER they'd been at work all day. 




nirvana said:


> But I did that on Aug 29, sat her down and talked to her about it. She agreed readily and said his constant calls were getting annoying. The last 2 calls she had ignored herself and one was when I was on the line with her and she said "Oh it is Steve, I won't pick up".




This post actually came before that first one. I was on may way to posting the above "lighten up, they handled it" post that NFuts beat me to when I read it. It sounded funny. She just got busted in a pretty inappropriate amount of communication with another man and the OM was just "getting annoying". 


I have my questions as to whether or not hot women know that ALL of their male friends would bang them in a HEARTBEAT. I have my questions as to whether or not all women know that a man that calls her regularly is hoping for eventual sex. But what I DO know is that your wife knew this communication was inappropriate. Was she just uncomfortable dealing with the situation? Maybe. But the calls she DIDN'T take were few and far between. And at least ONE only because she was on the phone with you at the time.

And 35 minutes? That's a long call.



Nucking Futs said:


> *unless he continues to attempt contact and won't take her no for an answer.*



I didn't really hear a "no", but I may just have missed it.


Look, I get caught up in the "she's cheating" hysteria as much as the next guy. And I don't mean to here. But my wife got caught up in some pretty inappropriate behavior a few years ago. It was no "secret". She was "open" with me about it. But when evidence surfaced that it was indeed inappropriate, we shut it down. Oh, sure. She "had to go" to these work events. They were "getting annoying", to go to. 

But she never admitted that they were getting out of hand. That she knew it but enjoyed it. And that she kept it from me. 

I knew she stopped (it would have been nearly impossible to sneak it) but we never dealt with it. And here I am on these boards years later.

Your wife had an affair. You ended it (I think), but you're not dealing with it. AND, she still works with the AP.

What do you do about it? No idea. But I'd NOT recommend a rugsweep.


----------



## knightRider

To me, it all sounds like an emotional affair with this OM.

In my case, I popped a VAR into her handbag and heard all sorts of things at her work. Nothing on her phone or emails.


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## nirvana

knightRider said:


> To me, it all sounds like an emotional affair with this OM.
> 
> In my case, I popped a VAR into her handbag and heard all sorts of things at her work. Nothing on her phone or emails.


I disagree on the EA.
In your case, maybe she had a burner phone. There isn't any here that I found and I have looked into her purse and the car.


----------



## nirvana

Everyone, thanks for all your responses. I agree with some and disagree with some others as always.

I think it is possible to be friends and not want to have sex or flirt. I had a Chinese woman who was my friend at work in a previous job many years ago and we watched out for each other as far as office politics went. We didn't talk after office hours but we talked over company chat program. We never flirted or went in that direction. I just happened to meet her a few weeks ago when she was at a McD with her daughters. 

I make no judgments about his intentions, but I don't think he was trying to have sex (he is Indian too, and he would get into big trouble), I think at the most, he wanted to flirt, take her to lunch, have coffee with her, have conversations, and be her buddy. I don't know (and don't want to know) what all he managed, but I know he had long conversations over phone in August. The after work calls stopped after I talked to her about it on Aug 29 or so, so there is no need for me to do anything.

I cannot and will not stalk her at work, that would be ridiculous and I would feel like an total loser, I trust her to exercise judgement on what is okay and what is not. We all make mistakes and I am okay (not happy, but okay) with her letting him call her during August. It has not happened since. All her devices and accounts are and have been open all the time. 

She never tried to hide and even mentioned to me a few times on her own that he was calling. If she was having an affair, she would not, and she would have deleted the call entries on her phone. I saw them all on her phone and they are there even now.

I don't mind if he talks to her at work but for work related issues and general things that coworkers talk. As far as I am concerned, she has nipped this thing in the bud. 

If there are developments, I will post here.


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## knightRider

"I make no judgments about his intentions, but I don't think he was trying to have sex (he is Indian too, and he would get into big trouble)"

This I find funny. You really think it makes a difference. Indians have affairs too. 

Anyway, fair enough, if you are happy with the situation, then great. Some of us saw red flags. Hope things progress well for you.


----------



## jdawg2015

knightRider said:


> "I make no judgments about his intentions, but I don't think he was trying to have sex (he is Indian too, and he would get into big trouble)"
> 
> This I find funny. You really think it makes a difference. Indians have affairs too.
> 
> Anyway, fair enough, if you are happy with the situation, then great. Some of us saw red flags. Hope things progress well for you.


I agree with you on the red flags. While this does not appear to be an ongoing thing and OP thinks his wife nipped it, that's all good.

What is concerning is how easily the guy go into the phone. The calls were not short so there was definitely some instigating going on. I think the wife's new found interest by another guy probably meant she was flattered. 

But was she totally innocent and clueless as to the guys intent? My guess is she knew but OP wised up and started to voice out (as he should).

OP, you are wise to monitor for a while. Player 101 is to never give up.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hello Nirvana

Lets just say I have an above average understanding of the various Indian cultures (and as you know there are more than just one). I am not Indian but am very very familiar with people and customs.


Sure this guy wanted to flirt and be her pal etc. I agree and it was probably shut down when you confronted. But here are some home truths for you to think about:

It starts out as innocent flirting and if you wife engaged him more, it would escalate.

Your comment about him not wanting to have sex because he is Indian too and would get into big trouble - you are wrong here. He would only get into trouble if she told anyone or anyone found out. And of course he would like to have sex with her if he can get it.

He doesn't have to be a good looking or fit guy to get a girl. He just has to be a good talker and charming and entertaining. And if a girl thought that she could get away with it, even if it was just the one time (and thats how these things start) she would do it, if for no other reason than the titillation of it all.

Its always better to be safe than sorry and too many marriages go wrong when we hear a husband say "my wife would never cheat on me".

So if "Mr Fat Charming" continues to entertain your wife in any way (keeping her amused, helping her with work, keeping her abreast of office politics and gossip, bringing the old "desi" connection in when with others etc - and you know what I mean), then there will come a day when she might succumb to an initial approach.

I actually don't believe that there is enough here for you to worry about, but as general advice, discourage this sort of behaviour as a general practice (and well before it gets out of hand or your wife even begins to think that it might be able to get out of hand).


----------



## nirvana

jdawg2015 said:


> I agree with you on the red flags. While this does not appear to be an ongoing thing and OP thinks his wife nipped it, that's all good.
> 
> What is concerning is how easily the guy go into the phone. The calls were not short so there was definitely some instigating going on. I think the wife's new found interest by another guy probably meant she was flattered.
> 
> But was she totally innocent and clueless as to the guys intent? My guess is she knew but OP wised up and started to voice out (as he should).
> 
> OP, you are wise to monitor for a while. Player 101 is to never give up.


Yes, I am not happy with the way he had managed to call her every evening for 20-25 minutes. It is possible that she was flattered by the interest. Definitely possible. On the positive side, she never showed any sign of hiding anything and the only reason why I looked into call logs was that she herself mentioned a few times that he called in context of some office gossip. If she had not told me, I would not have known or looked. It's her first time out in the world after 15 years of being a wife and mom so it's possible that she is taking some time getting used to dealing with such interest. I can easily see why she would stand out among Indian women of her age group. As she gets more experience in the work place, she will know how to shut down such interest but she needs to move out of her acute people-pleasing personality.

I don't want to be the suffocating husband who monitors and controls every part of his wife's life, that is no marriage to me. I don't want to be the Taliban.  A good marriage has trust, and people make mistakes also. Her mistake in my opinion was to give him a long rope and knowing Indian men (since I am one too), I can easily see why he was encouraged. I can forgive her for this (what I know), but I will keep monitoring for a while.


----------



## nirvana

manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Nirvana
> 
> Lets just say I have an above average understanding of the various Indian cultures (and as you know there are more than just one). I am not Indian but am very very familiar with people and customs.
> 
> 
> Sure this guy wanted to flirt and be her pal etc. I agree and it was probably shut down when you confronted. But here are some home truths for you to think about:
> 
> It starts out as innocent flirting and if you wife engaged him more, it would escalate.


Yes, it's my guess, but I think the next step would be coffee and maybe lunch. 



> Your comment about him not wanting to have sex because he is Indian too and would get into big trouble - you are wrong here. He would only get into trouble if she told anyone or anyone found out. And of course he would like to have sex with her if he can get it.


Well, these things would come out eventually. And she knows that I would not tolerate anything like this. Is it possible? Sure. But knowing her nature, it will take a lot for her to go out and have sex with someone. She will need to have completely checked out of this marriage.



> He doesn't have to be a good looking or fit guy to get a girl. He just has to be a good talker and charming and entertaining. And if a girl thought that she could get away with it, even if it was just the one time (and thats how these things start) she would do it, if for no other reason than the titillation of it all.


100% agree. And from what I hear, he is a good talker and tries to be friends with everyone. He is from the same state in India as we are, so there is a common language that he and my wife can speak that other Indians there cannot, so he tried to speak that with her also to try to get close with inside jokes etc. 



> Its always better to be safe than sorry and too many marriages go wrong when we hear a husband say "my wife would never cheat on me".
> 
> So if "Mr Fat Charming" continues to entertain your wife in any way (keeping her amused, helping her with work, keeping her abreast of office politics and gossip, bringing the old "desi" connection in when with others etc - and you know what I mean), then there will come a day when she might succumb to an initial approach.
> 
> I actually don't believe that there is enough here for you to worry about, but as general advice, discourage this sort of behaviour as a general practice (and well before it gets out of hand or your wife even begins to think that it might be able to get out of hand).


Yes, I know what you mean, and agree that guys will try this modus operandi to worm their way through by providing a shoulder. I believe that our conversation on Aug 29 made a difference but I will keep watching. I think I will be in this mode until he leaves the company or my wife leaves. She isn't happy with the salary, the over-work or the office politics so that might happen with the next few months.

I am planning a lunch-time date with my wife tomorrow or sometime this week. I will drive to her workplace, pick her up, take her to dinner and drop her off. Should be fun to do something without the kids in tow.


----------



## nirvana

nirvana said:


> I am planning a lunch-time date with my wife tomorrow or sometime this week. I will drive to her workplace, pick her up, take her to dinner and drop her off. Should be fun to do something without the kids in tow.


Not much connected to the topic but..

I am working from home these days and had an idea to take my wife out on a lunch date. I hadn't done it all this time because of various reasons, and the kids were in school too. I know she liked the idea but she is a pleasure-denier (many SAHMs or ex SAHMs are like that, they are used to giving and giving...) and gave the excuse that she is busy, has a meeting etc but I would not hear anything and said I will come pick her up at noon. I could tell she was excited. So I drove up to her workplace in my swanky cool black BMW and called her and she came out, looking very happy and radiant. She began to giggle like a school girl as she sat in, we hadn't gone on a date in a long time. 

I drove us to a Mediterranean place and as we stood in line to order, who do we see walk up but her team mate, a woman who she tells me about all the time who is disruptive at work and is skating on thin ice. She was warned by the boss and has been sullen. My wife introduced me to her and I just said hi. My wife said that my husband is here to take me on a date, so obviously she was very happy that we were there. We had a good 30 mins lunch and I drove her back.

As we entered, we saw 3 Indian guys in the lot walk to the building after lunch. My wife said they were the software developers in the team. My wife asked me to speed up and park on the other side so we would be visible, and she would be seen getting out from a BMW. :grin2: I did that, and one of those guys waved out to me and I waved back. I scanned them to see if one was the coworker who was calling her earlier, he wasn't among them. I saw them talk as they went in.

She thanked me for taking her out, put her arm around me as I drove and said it was a lot of fun. It was great connecting with the wife again in a different way and we need to do more dates to keep the fires burning. :x


----------



## Cynthia

Please take your wife on dates more often. Find a reliable babysitter and take her to a nice dinner at least once a month. That will be good for your marriage and make it less likely that she will be interested in the attention of other men. As a beautiful woman, your wife is going to get male attention. After a while, if she is not getting your undivided attention regularly, it will be more difficult for her to resist the attention of men who are stroking her ego.


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## turnera

I used to try to hard to hint to my H to send me flowers at work. I'd even hand him my business card, since his excuse was always that he didn't know my address, lol.

Men just have NO idea what that means to a woman, in terms of status at work.

Re: dating: You know all that Harley stuff, right? About spending 15 hours a week together doing non-chores/kids/tv/computer/work stuff? How it builds up and keeps the love flowing?


----------



## Cynthia

Great idea, Tunera.

Send your wife flowers at work. From what you described about how she lit up over you taking her to lunch and wanted to show you off, she will be over the moon if you send her flowers at work.

Water your garden and see how it grows and blossoms. From what you have posted here, it appears that you wife wants more of your attention and affection. Giving that to her will only make you happier as well.


----------



## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> Please take your wife on dates more often. Find a reliable babysitter and take her to a nice dinner at least once a month. That will be good for your marriage and make it less likely that she will be interested in the attention of other men. As a beautiful woman, your wife is going to get male attention. After a while, if she is not getting your undivided attention regularly, it will be more difficult for her to resist the attention of men who are stroking her ego.



Yes... I have fallen short in the romance department. 
Yesterday was a good start and even though it was for a short while and inexpensive, she really enjoyed it. She was very loving all day when she got home from work and I can tell from her tone that she is feeling it. When I woke up this morning and turned on our computer, I see a new wallpaper. It was a selfie that I took of the two of us about 10 years ago, we both look very young and good in it! Last night she was looking through our old pictures, found it, and decided to put it in there as wallpaper. :grin2: Usually she only puts up pictures of the kids. I need to make her feel like a girl again, not a wife or a mom that she has gotten used to.

I'll plan a dinner and a movie with her soon. There's this hit movie "The Martian" out and luckily it is PG-13 so the kids cannot go >. The was hinting that we go watch it. I'll have to find some friends to drop them off at for a few hours while we go to her favorite place to eat and then the movie. The inner mom in her might resist but I know she will enjoy it.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> I used to try to hard to hint to my H to send me flowers at work. I'd even hand him my business card, since his excuse was always that he didn't know my address, lol.
> 
> Men just have NO idea what that means to a woman, in terms of status at work.
> 
> Re: dating: You know all that Harley stuff, right? About spending 15 hours a week together doing non-chores/kids/tv/computer/work stuff? How it builds up and keeps the love flowing?



Yes, my wife has told me to get her flowers in the past as well, and I almost always get her on our anniversary and her birthday. I also get her chocolates and she likes that though she eats maybe a bite because she watches what she eats and gives most of it to the kids. I steal a few too. 

It's amazing how the male and female mind is so different. My thinking was "it's just flowers. It will die soon. Why spent $70 on them? Might as well buy something for the house of some jewelry or perfume - something you can use". Right? Wrong. The female mind looks at flowers in ways we males will never understand. And I don't try to... I just get her flowers.

She started her new job this past Jan and I thought I'd surprise her with V-Day flowers sent to her office, but then I held back because I didn't want her to feel embarrassed if I was coming on too strong and if she was the only one in the office (lots of Indian people there) who got flowers. Maybe I should have just done it. It's no longer a matter of cost or intent.

So I was driving my daughter to her piano class and my wife called and we were talking about her day and mine, and she told me who those Indian guys outside her office were when I dropped her off. They were names I had heard before. She said that the first thing she told them was that this was her husband. She didn't want them to think that some random guy in a cool car was dropping her off. :laugh::laugh: Indian women have a lot of "what will people think" issues going on. And of course to show off a bit I guess.

15 hours a week? That is about 2 hours a day... with the kids around and both of us working, that may be difficult. How do people actually manage it?


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## manfromlamancha

Next time give her the BMW and you drive whatever it is she is driving - now that would be the kind of gesture of respect that women really value!


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## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> Great idea, Tunera.
> 
> Send your wife flowers at work. From what you described about how she lit up over you taking her to lunch and wanted to show you off, she will be over the moon if you send her flowers at work.
> 
> Water your garden and see how it grows and blossoms. From what you have posted here, it appears that you wife wants more of your attention and affection. Giving that to her will only make you happier as well.


Yes, she feels guilty about doing things just with me, because she feels the kids are getting left out. The SAHM syndrome that never leaves I guess.

Yesterday as I was driving her back to work, she said she had a lot of fun and that it was nice to be away from the "lovable leeches" as she called our kids. :grin2::grin2: After yesterday, there is hope that she will enjoy a part of life away from the kids.


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## weightlifter

Must say this is a good thread.

IMHO in a year this would have been ugliness in CWI.

Instead its two people walking away from a cliff. Together.


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## turnera

nirvana said:


> Yes, my wife has told me to get her flowers in the past as well, and I almost always get her on our anniversary and her birthday.


Ok, here's a window into our souls, lol. It's expected that you might send her flowers on those days. And it's cool if you do.

But try to imagine a woman working full time at an office or whatever, and suddenly she gets a phone call, on some random day, to go to the front desk. She goes, and there's a bouquet (doesn't have to be anything extravagant - a few lilies will do) with a card that reads "I smiled when I thought of you this morning, so I wanted to make you smile, too." And she gets this huge rush of HAPPY and she literally parades that bouquet back to her desk, knowing all the people are looking at her (look at me, someone is crazy about me!), and then she gets back to where her coworkers are, and they all say 'ooh, ahh, what's the occasion?' and she just smiles this huge grin and says 'No occasion, he was just thinking of me!' Try to imagine in girlworld, where we're always comparing ourselves and our lives with each other, how good that made her feel and how much love is rushing through her at that moment.

Now, that doesn't mean you can ignore the birthday and anniversary. The first year I was with my husband, he specifically told me - after he ignored my birthday and I asked why - that he 'didn't believe in having to recognize society-mandated holidays' and that he'd rather just surprise me on random days to show how much he loved me.' Well, that went over like a lead balloon. So when his birthday came up six months later, I ignored HIS birthday; you'd have thought I cut off his hand. How dare I? I just shrugged and said "I thought that was what we did with society-mandated holidays." He never ignored my birthday again.

Bottom line, it doesn't take that much effort to show her in little ways that you care and think of her. I know lots of little florists who don't charge a fortune for a handmade bouquet. Or hell, you could pay a neighbor teenager to deliver her some flowers you cut from your own yard, if you're tight on money.



nirvana said:


> 15 hours a week? That is about 2 hours a day... with the kids around and both of us working, that may be difficult. How do people actually manage it?


It's a lot easier than you think. If you both leave in the morning, get up ten minutes earlier and make a cup of coffee or tea for each of you, and just sit there for ten minutes and talk about your days, or anything else that comes up. Send her off with a kiss.

Set up a jigsaw puzzle in the living room and just say, now and then, 'hey, come work on the puzzle with me for a few minutes' like when the kids are busy.

If you have a dog, start walking the dog together.

If you have a babysitting co-op, join it and get some free time; and when it's your turn to babysit, HELP her do it; have fun with it.

Show up at her work now and then and take her to lunch. Or ask her to meet you somewhere.

When the kids are asleep, pull out the sleeping bags and make a tent over them with some chairs and just make out in the living room with the lights off

There are millions of ways to find 10 or 30 minutes here and there - you just have to be mindful of it.


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## Cynthia

How old are your children?


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## turnera

nirvana said:


> Yes, she feels guilty about doing things just with me, because she feels the kids are getting left out. The SAHM syndrome that never leaves I guess.
> 
> Yesterday as I was driving her back to work, she said she had a lot of fun and that it was nice to be away from the "lovable leeches" as she called our kids. :grin2::grin2: After yesterday, there is hope that she will enjoy a part of life away from the kids.


The best memory I have of my H is one day he picked me up from work (I rode the metro), and he had a bag packed; he wouldn't tell me where we were going. We went to this house in the woods where two people were waiting to give us massages; there was a shared shower in the middle of the two rooms, where we went after the massages were over (and those people left), and we showered together and put on the comfy clothes he had packed for us. When we came out of there, the living room was in candles, the fire was going, music was playing, food and wine was laid out, and we were alone in the house for two hours (I think). It also had a pool and a hammock and a jacuzzi in the back yard, if we wanted to use them. It was the coolest surprise I'd ever been given. More importantly, it's things like that that have kept me with him despite all the bad crap he does - because I KNOW that loving, kind-hearted man is in there somewhere.

Small gesture, big rewards.


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## nirvana

manfromlamancha said:


> Next time give her the BMW and you drive whatever it is she is driving - now that would be the kind of gesture of respect that women really value!


She likes to go visit places, so the plan is that we will go to a state park this weekend and do some hiking. Provided weather is good of course. It's a 90 min drive and the kids will be in tow.

I tell people that she bought me the car from her earnings, though in reality there is no such thing as her money or my money, our paychecks go into the same account. But driving this car is different from hers so I would have to teach her. I'll do that this weekend maybe on Sunday! Once she gets comfortable, I'll give it to her to take to work once in a while. Good idea!


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## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> How old are your children?


11 and 7.


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## Cynthia

As far as time alone with your wife, your kids do not need constant attention anymore, so that helps.
While it is true that husband and wife need time alone and dates should be part of the relationship, family time also builds your relationship and your marriage, as long as you are not only relating as parents. For example, when you go on a family hike, make sure to hold your wife's hand sometimes and not only your children's. Look her in the eyes and listen to her. Comment on how beautiful she is. How you like what she did with her hair today. Things like that are points of connection with her. The idea is to be constantly connecting and filling her love bank.
When you are focused on pursuing your wife, even though she is already yours, that will continue to build her. Participating in family chores and teaching the children to do their part is also a good way to connect. It's not that you are doing it for her. It's that you are partners working together as one unit for the benefit of the family and each other.
Look at her through those young man eyes again and think about how you can build her. While you are doing this in front of your children, it will give them a sense of security. It is good for them to see you two going out on dates to build the core of your family, which is your marriage.
You are definitely headed in the right direction. If you step up a bit to show your wife how much you value her, your marriage will take on a new passion and joy and it is likely the arguments will become less as well.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> Ok, here's a window into our souls, lol. It's expected that you might send her flowers on those days. And it's cool if you do.
> 
> But try to imagine a woman working full time at an office or whatever, and suddenly she gets a phone call, on some random day, to go to the front desk. She goes, and there's a bouquet (doesn't have to be anything extravagant - a few lilies will do) with a card that reads "I smiled when I thought of you this morning, so I wanted to make you smile, too." And she gets this huge rush of HAPPY and she literally parades that bouquet back to her desk, knowing all the people are looking at her (look at me, someone is crazy about me!), and then she gets back to where her coworkers are, and they all say 'ooh, ahh, what's the occasion?' and she just smiles this huge grin and says 'No occasion, he was just thinking of me!' Try to imagine in girlworld, where we're always comparing ourselves and our lives with each other, how good that made her feel and how much love is rushing through her at that moment.
> 
> Now, that doesn't mean you can ignore the birthday and anniversary. The first year I was with my husband, he specifically told me - after he ignored my birthday and I asked why - that he 'didn't believe in having to recognize society-mandated holidays' and that he'd rather just surprise me on random days to show how much he loved me.' Well, that went over like a lead balloon. So when his birthday came up six months later, I ignored HIS birthday; you'd have thought I cut off his hand. How dare I? I just shrugged and said "I thought that was what we did with society-mandated holidays." He never ignored my birthday again.
> 
> Bottom line, it doesn't take that much effort to show her in little ways that you care and think of her. I know lots of little florists who don't charge a fortune for a handmade bouquet. Or hell, you could pay a neighbor teenager to deliver her some flowers you cut from your own yard, if you're tight on money.


ha ha! I see what you mean, it's a good idea. I did go back and forth about doing it some time ago, but I think I should go ahead. Women love surprises... actually I think that I should have just showed up at her work yesterday, called her from outside that I am outside and that we are going to lunch! That would have been more fun. For next time.

You are right.. women compare a lot and everything. I tried to get my wife away from that line of thinking by explaining that we do what is right for us, not someone else, but it never works.




> It's a lot easier than you think. If you both leave in the morning, get up ten minutes earlier and make a cup of coffee or tea for each of you, and just sit there for ten minutes and talk about your days, or anything else that comes up. Send her off with a kiss.
> 
> Set up a jigsaw puzzle in the living room and just say, now and then, 'hey, come work on the puzzle with me for a few minutes' like when the kids are busy.
> 
> If you have a dog, start walking the dog together.
> 
> If you have a babysitting co-op, join it and get some free time; and when it's your turn to babysit, HELP her do it; have fun with it.
> 
> Show up at her work now and then and take her to lunch. Or ask her to meet you somewhere.
> 
> When the kids are asleep, pull out the sleeping bags and make a tent over them with some chairs and just make out in the living room with the lights off
> 
> There are millions of ways to find 10 or 30 minutes here and there - you just have to be mindful of it.



:grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> As far as time alone with your wife, your kids do not need constant attention anymore, so that helps.
> While it is true that husband and wife need time alone and dates should be part of the relationship, family time also builds your relationship and your marriage, as long as you are not only relating as parents. For example, when you go on a family hike, make sure to hold your wife's hand sometimes and not only your children's. Look her in the eyes and listen to her. Comment on how beautiful she is. How you like what she did with her hair today. Things like that are points of connection with her. The idea is to be constantly connecting and filling her love bank.
> When you are focused on pursuing your wife, even though she is already yours, that will continue to build her. Participating in family chores and teaching the children to do their part is also a good way to connect. It's not that you are doing it for her. It's that you are partners working together as one unit for the benefit of the family and each other.
> Look at her through those young man eyes again and think about how you can build her. While you are doing this in front of your children, it will give them a sense of security. It is good for them to see you two going out on dates to build the core of your family, which is your marriage.
> You are definitely headed in the right direction. If you step up a bit to show your wife how much you value her, your marriage will take on a new passion and joy and it is likely the arguments will become less as well.



I broached the topic of the movie "Martian" and that we should go and as expected, she wanted to get the kids along so I need to make sure that she knows that I meant it to be a date, not a family event. Almost all movies we have gone to have been animated kid movies. My wife isn't very physically affectionate as one might expect from women, I think I am more so, I like to hug and kiss. My little daughter is like me in that respect. She has shoulder length thick hair and I keep asking her to grow it a tad longer but she says it is hard to maintain. Maybe once our relationship improves she will do it for me. 
I took a selfie of our lunch date from 2 days ago and sent it to her and she liked it a lot. It's my phone wallpaper now. 

Historically when things are going well, I sabotage it myself by getting angry about something silly and meaningless so I have to make sure I don't do it again. My wife is in her cycle but has been managing it well till now, though she has back ache.

As I am typing this, I see a 2004 picture of us together staring at me from my desktop screen wallpaper.


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## turnera

Find the babysitter and book her yourself. Then inform your wife that it's all set up, no talking about it, grab your purse, let's go. With a smile and a kiss, of course.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> Find the babysitter and book her yourself. Then inform your wife that it's all set up, no talking about it, grab your purse, let's go. With a smile and a kiss, of course.


Yes, I will strong arm my way into this.  I'll ask our friends to watch them for some hours and we've known them since my older one was a month old. Their daughter and ours are friends. If not, I'll just call their nanny from the summer.

BTW, I just got an offer from the company I had been targeting so we are all over the moon right now!


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## Cynthia

She will understand if you tell her that strong families start with a strong marriage. Therefore, you are working to build your family and your marriage even stronger by dating her and romancing her. The kids will benefit by feeling warm and secure in the family seeing their parents growing closer through the years. She will get that and it will help her not feel guilty for going out without the children. She will see that it is a benefit to them as well as the two of you. Of course, you will continue to have family time and focus on the children, but you two need that adult connection alone on a regular basis as well.


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## Yeswecan

CynthiaDe said:


> She will understand if you tell her that strong families start with a strong marriage. Therefore, you are working to build your family and your marriage even stronger by dating her and romancing her. The kids will benefit by feeling warm and secure in the family seeing their parents growing closer through the years. She will get that and it will help her not feel guilty for going out without the children. She will see that it is a benefit to them as well as the two of you. Of course, you will continue to have family time and focus on the children, but you two need that adult connection alone on a regular basis as well.


^^^^^^^^^^CynthiaDe speaks truth.^^^^^^^^^^


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## turnera

Here's a good article you could send her:


> I read an article on YourTango titled "Why I Love My Kid More Than My Husband." OK ... first, I must say I love my kids very much, but I do not love them more than my husband!
> 
> The love I have for my husband is deeper and more exciting than the love I have for my kids. He is my lover, my confidant, and my biggest fan. I am the same for him. It is so clear to me as a wife, mother, and psychologist that if I do not have a strong, healthy, and connected marriage, my mothering abilities are not on track.
> 
> Many of the couples with younger children that I see in my private practice find themselves exhausted, angry, and disconnected in their marriage. This is often because the woman focuses on the kids while the husband throws himself into his work.
> 
> This may seem like a good idea for a time, but as this goes on, the relationship will begin to suffer greatly. When we get married and before we have kids, as couples, we have the time, energy, and money to devote to our relationship.
> 
> We go out to dinner and a movie without a second thought. We can have sex any time without worrying if a baby will wake up or a toddler will come crashing through the door. Once kids enter the picture, we forget what being loved and honored by our partner (without spit up on us) feels like.
> 
> The mistake many moms make is they believe that if they are a good mother, their husband will be fine and he will understand.
> 
> In reality, the husband may feel pushed out of the parenting role and begrudgingly give up trying to have a relationship with his wife. As a result, they each become resentful of what the other "isn't" doing in regards to both the kids and the marriage.
> 
> In this scenario, the man will continue to retreat and do less and less for the kids, while the woman becomes angrier at this turn of events. She then gives less and less energy to her spouse, which makes him disconnect further and further.
> 
> The descent into divorce has begun.
> 
> One of the mistakes reality parents Jon and Kate Gosselin made was "putting their kids first." Every time I heard them say that phrase, it was like nails on a chalkboard to my ears. If they had just devoted some time to their relationship, I believe they wouldn't have found themselves divorcing and creating such trauma and drama for the entire family.
> 
> Good mothers and fathers must start by being a good wives and husbands.
> 
> If your emotional needs are not being met by your husband, you will try to fulfill these needs through your kids or elsewhere, which isn't healthy or positive for the marriage or for your kids. Your husband will also reach outside the marriage to get his emotional and physical needs met. Remember, your esteem as a partner is not the same as your esteem as a parent, but they do directly impact each other.
> 
> Do not think your marriage can survive until the children are 18 and off to college unless you start dedicating real time and real energy to your relationship.
> 
> I always tell my couples that you are not just setting an example as a mother and father, but even more importantly, your children are watching you to see what being a good wife and husband means.


If You Love Your Kids More Than Your Husband, You're Wrong | YourTango


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> Here's a good article you could send her:
> 
> If You Love Your Kids More Than Your Husband, You're Wrong | YourTango


Thanks turnera, I'll take a look and send it to her.
The problem is that she thinks she is being an awesome mom by putting the kids way way in front of everything else. Our son just has to ask for something, and my wife gets into a frenzy wanting to do it to meet his wishes. I have no problems saying "no" and since she says "yes" all the time, I end up being the bad guy to say more nos than normal. 

If I grumble, she tries the guilt angle of asking why I am unhappy when the kids benefit. 

Many times I say that something she is trying to get our kid is a bad idea and she insists and then later after a month she herself comes and tells me what a bad idea it was as if she figured it out herself. Makes me go "whaaaaat....??". :surprise:

I think I am also at fault for taking her for granted during the years before kids. So maybe she transferred her affection to the kids when they came.


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## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> She will understand if you tell her that strong families start with a strong marriage. Therefore, you are working to build your family and your marriage even stronger by dating her and romancing her. The kids will benefit by feeling warm and secure in the family seeing their parents growing closer through the years. She will get that and it will help her not feel guilty for going out without the children. She will see that it is a benefit to them as well as the two of you. Of course, you will continue to have family time and focus on the children, but you two need that adult connection alone on a regular basis as well.


Even though this coworker thing is not a good thing to happen, there is a positive outcome. My male primeval instinct to protect my mate was aroused. I realize that she wants to be treated like a girl, like a woman. It must be said that she does not treat me like a man the way I like to be by appreciating what I do for her and the family (I have a thread on it elsewhere). Men have egos, that makes us tick. Women don't like men with no egos, and those types are the ones with no ambition, no drive and are lazy. Too much male ego becomes narcissism and that is bad too. How hard is it for women to say nice things to their husbands for give them a good life and providing for them? So many Indian women don't do that and whine and complain all the time that they have to cook, care for the kids etc. At Indian parties there are always a few toxic Indian women who either praise their husbands to the skies (falsely) and make the other women feel that their husbands don't measure up, or there are others who rip their husbands and talk as if they don't care about them and how they "rule". The other impressionable women carry this back home to try on their husbands, often with bad results. Mine did too. She is slowly seeing through these false gods (but cannot bring herself to give me a compliment).

Anyway, back to what I was saying, this episode has brought me on track to how I want my relationship with my wife to be. The other day I took her on a lunch date picking her up from work and sometime this week I will just show up at her work place, call her from outside and take her out! My wife now has a spring to her step and is always using her petname for me that she does when she feels affection. However, this has not carried to the bedroom yet, if I make moves on her, she still says she is tired, she has to go to work tomorrow etc etc. Maybe it's a slow process, but I see improvement in other areas.

I guess our love languages are messed up. She is big into gifts. In the earlier years of our marriage, she would get me gifts. The problem is that I give 2 hoots for gifts. Don't buy me anything. One time she bought me a $40 iPhone case and I blew a gasket. $40 is too much for a case, and I also don't use a phone case. I got her some gifts, but I reasoned using typical male logic that why waste money on a gift that you might not use, why not buy something we need for the house. Now I realize it was pretty dumb logic while dealing with a woman. I am trying to rectify it, I just got her a nice iPad Air 2 yesterday. She's always wanted a nicer phone, so I am looking to get her one. I have had a hard life, it is not easy being a minority in white-dominated industries. You don't get the promotions and raises you deserve unless you force the issue yourself. I also had no one to guide me in my career. While other husbands were over spending to show off, I was saving money for a rainy day. My wife instead of appreciating it, was beating me up (figuratively) and comparing me adversely to the other guys. Now I bought her a nice house in a nice area (we were single income) but she cannot bring herself to say thank you. She has just stopped praising other husbands because she looks foolish doing so because they are all in debt and we are not. Also, I love physical touch. I love to hug and kiss and cuddle. My wife doesn't seem to be that way, or maybe I have made her that way with my actions. I don't know which one it is. Thankfully my little 7 year old daughter is like me and I hug and kiss her all the time. My wife objects and says "why don't you teach her instead? Talk to her...". My daughter enjoys the love. So we have a mismatch there. My wife loves going out, so I suggested a hike in a state park 90 miles away so we did that last weekend in awesome weather and she loved it.

I want to take her out on a dinner + movie soon.


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## turnera

Great progress. Have you had her fill out the 5 Love Languages questionnaire? It's a great discussion to have, to learn more about each other. And while you're discussing it, you can also bring up what YOUR languages are, and how sorely you're missing them (affection, admiration, etc.); explain how much more in love it would make you feel. And also use it to help her see the difference in her own kids, how that one daughter NEEDS the affection because that's how she internalizes love. Your wife doesn't seem bad or mean, just ignorant.

Have you two read His Needs Her Needs together yet? I would start reading it at night, in bed, even if she won't, so that you can read out passages that match your situation to her. She can't 'unhear' what you're tellling her, even if she doesn't want to participate. HNHN follows the same trails as the Love Languages, he just calls them Emotional Needs; but he takes it a step further and discusses the Love Busters, things you do that annoy or upset your partner, and advises you to LEARN what you do to LB your spouse and STOP DOING THEM! That's how resentment grows, and that's often how women stop wanting to have sex with their men - resentment.

I would read HNHN when we were in the car, because he couldn't go anywhere, and he had to hear it whether he wanted to or not. Many things have improved since he was 'educated' in that stuff.

ETA: Don't be TOO spontaneous, too often, ok? Women like safety and security, too.


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## nirvana

Hi Turnera, not yet. Recently, I went through some really trying times. The company I joined in Dec had some trouble and I got laid off in mid September. I knew it was coming, and had started looking since May but no luck. Right after I lost my job, my luck changed and I got many calls, good companies doing good work and ended up with 3 job offers! I had to turn away many companies emailing me to interview. I was able to negotiate and had two companies almost bidding that I join them. A higher up also called me to sell me the job. I will be joining work in 2 weeks making 20% more than I did earlier and the best part is the area of work is super hot so that will lead to more things. This layoff looks like a blessing in disguise.

My wife has been watching all of this and her respect for me has increased tremendously. She is genuinely happy and I can see it. I've had a hard time in my career and she only knows of my struggle and relative failure. I value loyalty a lot, standing by people in their down days. It's easy to jump on a bandwagon and I might be seeing a bit of that here. I don't know what to make of it. Does she love me for me, or because things are suddenly looking good for me so she looks good as well? It is well known than women are attracted to successful and powerful men due to evolutionary reasons. Is this what it is? Who knows. Many times I have felt that I was just being used for my paycheck... many guys feel that way. Anyway, I was busy studying, interviewing, etc and now it's all over so I will look into this. If I want things to improve, I have to discard my resentment as well.

A mistake I made was to neglect my career. A man is nothing without his career. Make no mistake, I do quite well and have been making 6 figures for about 8 years but not as well as I could have by my own judgment. Now that I got the break I needed, I will focus on it. 

I am generally very risk averse (which has affected my career too) so I am not very spontaneous, so no danger of that! I might actually startle my wife because I plan and plan everything. She has nothing to fear as far as safety and security goes... there is nothing she can do to make me compromise on that. She has berated me and insulted me and compared me to her friends husbands on this and it has not made a difference. I cannot compromise long term financial security just because one of us wants to show off. So we are good there. 

I'll the questionnaire first myself since I have time!


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## Cynthia

Thanks for saving me some time, Tunera. That is pretty much what I was going to say.

If the two of you want a healthy, loving relationship, it has to go both ways. But it always starts with "me." We cannot change anyone, but ourselves, so we have to start there. Asking for reciprocation works much better after we are consistently doing our own part first.

My husband and I read in bed. He likes to be read to. It's nice and gives us a chance to talk about what we've read and how we can incorporate things into our relationship.


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## nirvana

Thanks Cynthia... improvement is slow, but it is visible. Recently, she changed her profile picture on her whatsapp account to be one of our lunch date from last week. And she also changed our computer wallpaper to one of the two of us from 2005. I remember we had a small argument, so she was a little pissed, but she looked very beautiful and that is captured in the selfie I took. The next two things I want to do are to get her the phone she wants and to teach her to drive my BMW. My car is slightly different from hers, so I will need to spend some time with her.

Not much improvement in the bedroom but I think it may take some time. She once told me a few months ago that women have stronger libido than men but the conditions have to be right. Those were the times when we fought a lot. She just called me from work to talk after her lunch. I think the coworker issue has been averted.


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## turnera

nirvana said:


> She once told me a few months ago that women have stronger libido than men *but the conditions have to be right*. Those were the times when we fought a lot. She just called me from work to talk after her lunch. I think the coworker issue has been averted.


She is 100% right! Men have a more physical need for sex, but women have to feel 'loving' toward their man to want to have it, more typically. Removing resentments is key to that. And then meeting her top 5 Emotional Needs. THEN she'll be crazy for you.

And it does take a long time for a woman to warm back up to you. Be patient. Try for it every now and then but don't be pushy and if she says no, be graceful about the rejection and stay happy and upbeat; make her feel safe.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> She is 100% right! Men have a more physical need for sex, but women have to feel 'loving' toward their man to want to have it, more typically. Removing resentments is key to that. And then meeting her top 5 Emotional Needs. THEN she'll be crazy for you.
> 
> And it does take a long time for a woman to warm back up to you. Be patient. Try for it every now and then but don't be pushy and if she says no, be graceful about the rejection and stay happy and upbeat; make her feel safe.


Thanks turnera. The going has been very good for the past few weeks and she's visibly happier and in good spirits. My job situation is resolved and she is happy that I was sought after by several companies. It will come up sooner or later with her friends, and she will want something to show off about. This seems to be one of the topics when Indian women get together, maybe some kind of status thing. Guys don't discuss their wives when they meet! I wonder if this is the same in non-Indian cultures as well.

My biggest problem was a mercurial temper. I am learning to conquer that. I have ruined her mood many times in the past by saying something I shouldn't have said when she was in a good mood. 

There's a religious thing at a neighbors house and my wife and daughter have both gone there, looking fabulous. :x

But dayammm I was feeling h0rny this afternoon, she was at work and I was at home. Is tonight the night?? lol


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## turnera

It's not just Indian women, nirvana. It goes back to caveman days - our very survival depends on 'picking' and 'getting' the best male out there. That's why if you ever feel she's taking you for granted, all it takes is some random woman giving you the lookover to get her to 'reclaim' you, lol. 

And sometimes women just like to be 'taken.' If you're feeling good, and she comes home feeling good, and the kids are out of the way...I can see you coming up to her and snuggling, a kiss or two, grab her butt (if she likes that stuff), maybe even pick her up and carry her to the bedroom...

Some women like to feel that they 'had no choice,' if you know what I mean, that they were swept away...


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> It's not just Indian women, nirvana. It goes back to caveman days - our very survival depends on 'picking' and 'getting' the best male out there. That's why if you ever feel she's taking you for granted, all it takes is some random woman giving you the lookover to get her to 'reclaim' you, lol.
> 
> And sometimes women just like to be 'taken.' If you're feeling good, and she comes home feeling good, and the kids are out of the way...I can see you coming up to her and snuggling, a kiss or two, grab her butt (if she likes that stuff), maybe even pick her up and carry her to the bedroom...
> 
> Some women like to feel that they 'had no choice,' if you know what I mean, that they were swept away...


ha.. it did happen in a way. We were invited to a party early this year and one of my wife's friend and her husband was there also. Just a family event. The first thing this friend asks my wife was what her husband's (me) name was. I was some distance away but heard her ask. Then throughout the party, I noticed her staring at me every now and then. Then once as she walked by, she commented about my height (I am 6'1). I don't think my wife was around at that time to notice though. Guess what, she and her family are coming over next weekend for a dinner party with other families... lol

So this afternoon, I thought I'd surprise her, so I drove to her workplace without asking her and called. She didn't know I was outside, and she told me she was working on something and was busy etc. I said come out to lunch, I am outside! I don't think she was terribly pleased, as she seemed stressed out. She said give me 10 minutes and then she came out and we went to a Chinese place. I don't think my wife does well with surprises as I has expected, because it's like a loss of control and some uncertainty, and being a SAHM for years, she is used to being under control of everything. Next time I'll let her know but it was good to throw this into the mix. I am at my new job in 10 days, which is far away from her workplace, so not many chances for this.


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## Cynthia

I wouldn't do well if my husband showed up and expected me to drop everything either. It is disconcerting. Some people need a plan. I am one of them and it sounds like your wife is too. If you want to do this more frequently, make a plan with her and let her know that you want to do this as much as possible before you start your new job. It would be nice if she could take one afternoon off to spend with you while the kids are in school.


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## nirvana

CynthiaDe said:


> I wouldn't do well if my husband showed up and expected me to drop everything either. It is disconcerting. Some people need a plan. I am one of them and it sounds like your wife is too. If you want to do this more frequently, make a plan with her and let her know that you want to do this as much as possible before you start your new job. It would be nice if she could take one afternoon off to spend with you while the kids are in school.


Yeah, well my wife would talk about how her friend's husband surprised her with this or that. The hint was probably about how boring I was in comparison. I know that she doesn't like surprises like one would expect, but I wanted to give it a shot. I am off next week too before I start my new job, and I'll take her out again one more time but I will make sure it's scheduled. > At this point, I am completely off and at home until I start work again, but she isn't.


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## turnera

You did fine. Given her response, next time just call her as you're on your way there and say 'I'll be there in 15 minutes, see you there.'


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## Cynthia

nirvana said:


> Yeah, well my wife would talk about how her friend's husband surprised her with this or that. The hint was probably about how boring I was in comparison. I know that she doesn't like surprises like one would expect, but I wanted to give it a shot. I am off next week too before I start my new job, and I'll take her out again one more time but I will make sure it's scheduled. > At this point, I am completely off and at home until I start work again, but she isn't.


You called her bluff and she was caught off guard. You gave it a shot and that's what counts. I think she will appreciate the thought you put into it, but scheduling the next lunch date will work better.

I do not know much about Indian culture, but the things you post about being cultural don't sound as much a matter of culture as a matter of gender. Women and men think differently. Our brains and hormones are different. Our body makeup is different. That's part of the excitement.

That being said, there are a lot of things that are simply about personality. Some women love surprises. Same for men. Otoh, some women and some men hate surprises. Personally, I don't like surprises unless they don't require anything of me. I don't like being caught off guard. I like to know what's going on.


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## nirvana

Yep, I'll take her out next week and I will schedule it. Maybe do a Friday afternoon when work is less. The general wisdom is that women love surprises, but I think in reality, not all do. I think my wife does like it when they are small and do not make her rethink her plans. Anyway, she cannot say I didn't surprise her anymore. 

The last few weeks have been very good, no fights, she's been very loving, calling me sweet petnames instead of my name. I treat her better, shut up when she is complaining/letting out steam and don't argue with her which ends up ruining her mood. I am sure that my new job, higher salary range, and the fact that companies are calling almost everyday has increased her respect/love. I think that women tend to respect people who are in "demand" or whom other people want. All humans are that way, but women probably more so because by nature women want to be associated with successful men.
She also calls me on her commute both ways, which she would rarely do earlier. Yesterday she was upstairs on the computer and I was downstairs in the kitchen and she asked if I could get her a glass of hot water to drink (post dinner). I said yes, and in a few minutes brought it up for her after heating the water. She was elated, said she didn't expect me to do it and gave me a hug. "Acts of service" seems to be her language more than anything else. 

The coworker calls are non-existent though he may be trying to talk at work. I don't know and have not asked, I will not babysit her on this one. She can deal with it on her own and ask me if she needs help. 

I think I'll open a new thread on winning my wife back instead of mixing with this one. By this I don't mean winning her from someone else, but reducing the chasm between us in her heart.


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## farsidejunky

I would stick to one thread. It is much easier for folks to read that way.


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## nirvana

farsidejunky said:


> I would stick to one thread. It is much easier for folks to read that way.


But it's a whole different topic. And hopefully a happier one.


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## farsidejunky

Lol, do what you want brother. They are your threads after all. 

But I would tell you, as someone who reads older threads, it is great to start and finish in one thread.


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## Cynthia

nirvana said:


> I think I'll open a new thread on winning my wife back instead of mixing with this one. By this I don't mean winning her from someone else, but reducing the chasm between us in her heart.


Please post a link in this thread if you want the same people to continue to follow your story and post responses.


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## nirvana

Things have been moving well but I think the coworker is still somewhat interested but has toned himself down. He has not made any phone calls since Sept 23 and it's been over a month.

At my wife's workplace, there have project review meetings every 3-4 weeks and in these, one person has to make slides about themselves and talk about their life. Where they came from, interests, family etc with pictures. So today was my wife's turn, so she made her deck and presented it. Yesterday as we were talking about it, she mentioned that the deck is done, but she hasn't decided who to nominate for the next one. The process is that the* one who presented has to nominate the person to present the next time*. Then she showed me her slides and said that she is putting in 2 slides to show the kids, and one on her husband (me). The she said that Steve (the coworker) who had *his turn last time* had slide after slide talking about his kids which she thought was boring. 

When she said this, my spidey sense began to tingle and I put 2 and 2 together. So from the above, it was obvious that Steve had nominated my wife to present. Why? Didn't he find someone else? It tells me that he may still be interested? He talked on and on about his kids, and my wife is also kid-obsessed from her time as a SAHM, was that something he did on purpose? I will never know. Maybe it does not matter.

On the plus side, my wife had an entire slide dedicated to me with one of my very lovingly hugging her with the skyline in the backdrop. An awesome selfie I took of us about 4 years ago. In the text of the slide was a lot of proud words about me. :grin2: Maybe subconsciously communicating that she is taken and not available?? Who knows how the female mind works.  But it was nice to read that.

I changed my behavior for the better all of October and the results have been spectacular. I don't get on her case when she does something that I think was wrong. I control my anger and have gotten better at it. My wife is now very loving, much less rebellious and listens when I make a point rather than oppose it all the time like earlier. I recently got a new job which pays about 20% more with cutting edge work so she's happy and proud about that too (I think I was right that women feel a lot of pride from husband's professional success). 
She wore a T-shirt of my Alma-mater's to work the other day causing her boss (whose daughter went to the same top ranked school and she brags about her daughter all the time) to ask why she was wearing that. My wife told her with some pride that her husband is an alum. Must be another female trait where they wear husband/boyfriends shirts when they feel intense love to convey "I am taken". I had a thread on this recently. It's now up to me to keep doing what I am doing and watch things get even better.

I don't see any change in the bedroom though, maybe it will take a bit longer for her to want me from that perspective, but she kisses me back more willingly than earlier. Sex is still once every 10 days to 2 weeks. I have to initiate the sex and the kisses always, but I hope it will change soon.


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## jsmart

It's very good that upping your game has helped. Continue to up your sex rank and attraction will come. What's good about doing this self improvement effort is that if she doesn't come around, your a good catch if you need to leave.

As for this douche, you need to more strongly and directly mate guard. He's doing the typical move that works on wives. Become the type of man that he thinks his target wants. He sees your wife is into the kids so he becomes Mr perfect dad. Though things are improved you need to continue to monitor her and let her know there is 0 tolerance for any shenanigans.


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## jdawg2015

jsmart said:


> As for this douche, you need to more strongly and directly mate guard. He's doing the typical move that works on wives. Become the type of man that he thinks his target wants. He sees your wife is into the kids so he becomes Mr perfect dad. Though things are improved you need to continue to monitor her and let her know there is 0 tolerance for any shenanigans.


The guy is definitely still trying. And unfortunately this means that OP still needs to snoop. Seems his W is being solid.

I can only imagine the boner killer it had to be for the other guy to see her showing info on her husband. 

However, she knows the H is watching now so the real test will be over many months.

I would have nipped this by contacting him but that boat has sailed. If married and some douche is pining for my wife, these things escalate too fast to sit back and say nothing.


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## nirvana

jsmart said:


> It's very good that upping your game has helped. Continue to up your sex rank and attraction will come. What's good about doing this self improvement effort is that if she doesn't come around, your a good catch if you need to leave.
> 
> As for this douche, you need to more strongly and directly mate guard. He's doing the typical move that works on wives. Become the type of man that he thinks his target wants. He sees your wife is into the kids so he becomes Mr perfect dad. Though things are improved you need to continue to monitor her and let her know there is 0 tolerance for any shenanigans.


Yes, improving my "sex rank" has helped quite a bit. For many/most women and especially Indian women, the status and power of their man seems to feed into their own self esteem. So if their husband is a powerful rich man, it makes them feel that way also, but in a feminine way. At least that is my understanding. My next step is to of course do exceptionally well in my new job and also build myself physically. I need to improve my chest, biceps, shoulders and look good from that perspective.

Yes, I understand and agree with what you are saying. Maybe initially he fished around for clues and may have found out that my wife adores and loves to talk about her kids so he may have decided to use that as a ploy. I remember a long time ago, maybe in April, my wife mentioning that this guy "Steve" was an "involved dad" while talking about her coworkers. She has had this complaint about me that I am not involved enough. Easy for her to say because a lot of my time was spent giving her and the kids a good stable life (she wasn't working then).


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## AliceA

Probably good for your marriage that you had this little kick to the butt. Much better than waking up years down the track having continued to make little effort to a spouse handing out the ILYBINILWY speech. Maybe you should thank him, lol.


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## nirvana

jdawg2015 said:


> The guy is definitely still trying. And unfortunately this means that OP still needs to snoop. Seems his W is being solid.
> 
> I can only imagine the boner killer it had to be for the other guy to see her showing info on her husband.
> 
> However, she knows the H is watching now so the real test will be over many months.
> 
> I would have nipped this by contacting him but that boat has sailed. If married and some douche is pining for my wife, these things escalate too fast to sit back and say nothing.


For sure! And my wife titled the slide "My best friend in life". :grin2: A definite boner killer for anyone with designs. She had my pictures sprinkled all over her deck, one of my college graduation, one of her Masters degree graduation titled "Some proud moments" with my arm around her... with the kids in a happy family mode. The slide she made for me had me holding her tightly in a very manly way and she clinging to me shyly with my other arm taking a selfie of us. I love that picture. I wonder if she was sending out "Keep Away" signals, women are very good at conveying messages without needing to use words.

My feeling is that he may still have some hope but is close to giving up. But I agree, I still need to snoop and be alert. Not because I don't trust her... I do, but because I don't trust him to stop. I still watch the call records, and all her electronic stuff is always open as always. 

There are several ways of dealing with this situation and the suggestions and views I got from this thread were very useful. Each way comes with its own set of pros and cons. One way was to be openly aggressive and confront him directly and tell him to stay away. The downside of that is he can easily say he was just calling to talk about the day or some work stuff and also say that she has also called him. It would also vitiate her work environment and if something went wrong, she would blame me for ruining it for her (she has blamed me unnecessarily many times in the past). The worst thing probably would be that I would be treating her like a errant child as if I had no trust in her and would convey that I did not believe that she could handle a situation. That would have caused more problems in our relationship. On the other hand, I let her deal with it, but conveyed clearly that I did not like some coworker calling her off hours for whatever reason. She said she would handle it from then on and I think she has. All the regular calls were in August, and other than the Sept 23 call for 22 seconds, there has been nothing that I can see.

The big positive is that in some weird way this has improved my relationship with my wife. All of October has been great. I suddenly felt very protective in a primeval sort of way when this started. I'll be honest, when this happened in July and Aug, we were fighting a lot at home and my job was shaky and I felt that there was a chance I might lose her emotionally (that is enough for a woman - her cutting you off emotionally). I felt like total crap.

My wife is a pretty woman, very intelligent, social, dresses well and family-oriented also, so there will be many guys at work now or in the future who may be impressed and try to see if they have a chance. I am a guy, I get it. I see some nice looking ladies at work and think "wow, she is beautiful" but of course, I don't do anything about it. There is nothing I can do about this as I cannot be her bodyguard following her around. Instead of trying to ward off every guy like a jealous husband and lose her respect, the best thing is to work on my wife in a subtle way. If she gets love and emotional support at home, why will she look for it elsewhere? There are no 100% guarantees in life, but I can minimize the chance of her looking elsewhere. I think my actions have been successful till now, let's see what happens in the future. I did not do the VAR because if I was caught, that would kill the relationship we have. I do check call logs, but she does not know that. It has some deniability.

The news she told me on Friday is that her top level boss called her and said he was almost sure to move her to the job opening that she wanted and had interviewed for some weeks ago within her company. She is very happy and so am I.


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## AliceA

nirvana said:


> There are several ways of dealing with this situation and the suggestions and views I got from this thread were very useful. Each way comes with its own set of pros and cons. One way was to be openly aggressive and confront him directly and tell him to stay away. The downside of that is he can easily say he was just calling to talk about the day or some work stuff and also say that she has also called him. It would also vitiate her work environment and if something went wrong, she would blame me for ruining it for her (she has blamed me unnecessarily many times in the past). The worst thing probably would be that I would be treating her like a errant child as if I had no trust in her and would convey that I did not believe that she could handle a situation. That would have caused more problems in our relationship. On the other hand, I let her deal with it, but conveyed clearly that I did not like some coworker calling her off hours for whatever reason. She said she would handle it from then on and I think she has. All the regular calls were in August, and other than the Sept 23 call for 22 seconds, there has been nothing that I can see.


I'm glad you went that way. Personally I can see why people advocate for attacking the 3rd party to try to solve the issue, but in reality, if that's what you feel you have to do, the marriage is already over.

Trying to force someone to toe the line by removing their options creates a breeding ground for resentment.


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## nirvana

breeze said:


> I'm glad you went that way. Personally I can see why people advocate for attacking the 3rd party to try to solve the issue, but in reality, if that's what you feel you have to do, the marriage is already over.
> 
> Trying to force someone to toe the line by removing their options creates a breeding ground for resentment.


Yes, I figured I didn't want to conduct surgery for what might be cured by an off the shelf medication.  And I didn't want to treat her like a teenager - that's a sureshot way to create resentment and hate.

I don't check call logs that frequently anymore, just casually once a week and nothing comes up.

My philosophy on relationships... any relationship whether it is friends, romantic etc is that it needs to work for both parties. There is a saying in India that you cannot clap with 1 hand. If my partner at any time isn't interested in me anymore, she is free to go. However, there is no come-and-go policy, if she goes, the door closes behind her forever.


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## jdawg2015

breeze said:


> I'm glad you went that way. Personally I can see why people advocate for attacking the 3rd party to try to solve the issue, but in reality, if that's what you feel you have to do, the marriage is already over.
> 
> Trying to force someone to toe the line by removing their options creates a breeding ground for resentment.


You are sorta of right but with a bit of clarification.

It's not about removing options. He talks to the suitor and talks to the wife. They have the option to continue the inappropriate behaviour.

By putting a boundary line in place the OP knows exactly where he stands. 

This had a recipe for disaster written on it if OP has not talked to the wife.


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## nirvana

Looks like my gains over October have fizzed out. She had her period in early Nov and has been in a grumpy mood ever since. She called me "lazy" exactly when I was vacuuming our bedroom! Anyway more on the other thread.

As for this topic, yes, since he still works there, he still technically has the opportunity for mischief. I don't really care about him. I care about my wife. I can work on her, not on him. The only exception is if he is harassing her or bothering her in anyway. If my wife decides she likes him more than me, there is nothing I can do about it. I cannot go in and re-program her mind. Love does not work that way. But I can decide how I handle it. If she leaves (very very unlikely), there is no coming back. If not this fellow, there could be another fellow in a month. I cannot be her bodyguard or peep from bushes outside her work place. She is an adult and I have to trust her. I think I made my boundaries and expectations clear when I talked to her in late Aug.


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## turnera

nirvana, stay calm. You know women and moods...she gripes at you because you're the safe one to gripe at. You can decide to either just accept it and carry on, or else stand up for yourself when she gripes like that. I prefer the latter. For instance, 'you're lazy' when you're vacuuming - stop what you're doing, turn the vacuum off, turn to look at her, hold out the vacuum handle and hand it to her, and say 'if you choose not to acknowledge the work I do to keep this family going, I see no reason to keep doing it' and go for a walk or a drive.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> nirvana, stay calm. You know women and moods...she gripes at you because you're the safe one to gripe at. You can decide to either just accept it and carry on, or else stand up for yourself when she gripes like that. I prefer the latter. For instance, 'you're lazy' when you're vacuuming - stop what you're doing, turn the vacuum off, turn to look at her, hold out the vacuum handle and hand it to her, and say 'if you choose not to acknowledge the work I do to keep this family going, I see no reason to keep doing it' and go for a walk or a drive.


Thanks turnera. Not a good weekend. The whole day was in a cold war mode with her throwing occasional taunts my way and I just letting them bounce off me. Now she's gone out with the kids to a sports shop without telling me. To my credit, I didn't bite at her constant baiting. 

Yesterday we went to the bookstore like we do regularly. She kept saying how tired she was, how she was overworked etc. To me, it's simple... if one is overworked, you rest and get better and do less work. I have NO problem even if she sits in bed all weekend and no do anything. And we all are tired and overworked, so I don't really have a whole lot of sympathy though I do understand it. If I say I am tired, her immediate reply is "Tired? I woke up at 6 am this morning and blah blah blah". It's all about her. So when she said she was tired I looked at her and nodded my head to show that I listened and did not say a word. That got her mad and she began to grumble about how I didn't care and all that. I didn't say anything. If I had told her to go and rest, she would have said "I am not looking for solutions from you". There is no winning with this woman. I think she is in her crazy time though her periods have ended. 

I am proud of myself that I did not fall into her trap this weekend. 

I know what she wants, to make me dependent on her for my self-worth. She never acknowledges anything I do or throw me a bone any time. It's always grumbling and complaining and comparison sometimes with other husbands. As you might know, I just got a new job paying me 20% more and in hot new technology and I am very excited about it. I'll dive in completely and get my ego boost from work achievements. She is welcome to join me, but I need to get away from expecting her to say anything nice about me to me. I am sure she boasts about me to others when I am not around but then it is only to make herself look good, not that she wants me to be happy. Her whole family is self-centered starting with that rascal dad of hers.

I am fed up of her blow hot blow cold attitude, so I am not going to make peace this time. She isn't talking so neither will I, beyond what is absolutely needed. Let's see how long she pulls this off. She even threatened me with "I will make you pay for this!!". And other than the bookstore incident, nothing happened. I also decided that I will not be going to any neighborhood parties anymore. The problem is the people there know my wife is insecure and so spread stories about me to her (all in fun of course) and my wife takes it seriously when we get home and it's World War II after that like last weekend. She can go alone or with the kids.

Oct was a happy month. Things went my way. And it's back to crap again. At least I have a job that has good prospects.

I'll write more in my other thread. I'll keep this to the coworker incident which is most likely dead or "solved" by now.


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## nirvana

turnera said:


> nirvana, stay calm. You know women and moods...she gripes at you because you're the safe one to gripe at. You can decide to either just accept it and carry on, or else stand up for yourself when she gripes like that. I prefer the latter. For instance, 'you're lazy' when you're vacuuming - stop what you're doing, turn the vacuum off, turn to look at her, hold out the vacuum handle and hand it to her, and say 'if you choose not to acknowledge the work I do to keep this family going, I see no reason to keep doing it' and go for a walk or a drive.


turnera, the problem is when she is in crazyland, she is baiting me to respond. If I do, she escalates, brings in unrelated things I did or supposedly did back in 2004 or 2001 and justifies it to herself what a horrible guy I am and what a nice girl she is. It's her old trick. There is no reasoning with her. She is intelligent, but terrible immature. Her dad pampered her as a child and she never grew out of it. I think she wants me to be her dad, not her husband.

I spent the whole day tidying our bedroom, cleaning out the family photos of the family, etc. I even got her a new iPhone 6S paying $630 and I have not given it to her yet. Imagine, after all the nasty behavior she's exhibited today!


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## turnera

Yeah, do NOT give her the phone. Half of her problem is that you have spoiled her even when she treats you poorly. And a great way for your marriage to improve is for you to very subtly NOT reward her when she acts horribly.

The other great way to improve the marriage is for you to be strong, confident and especially do NOT respond emotionally when she tries to dig at you. Those are called "sh*t tests" and all nearly women do them. And the way to handle them is to, basically, laugh them off. You KNOW she loves you, so whatever crap she throws your way is just her being a female. You can handle it.


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## jdawg2015

nirvana said:


> turnera, the problem is when she is in crazyland, she is baiting me to respond. If I do, she escalates, brings in unrelated things I did or supposedly did back in 2004 or 2001 and justifies it to herself what a horrible guy I am and what a nice girl she is. It's her old trick. There is no reasoning with her. She is intelligent, but terrible immature. Her dad pampered her as a child and she never grew out of it. I think she wants me to be her dad, not her husband.
> 
> I spent the whole day tidying our bedroom, cleaning out the family photos of the family, etc. I even got her a new iPhone 6S paying $630 and I have not given it to her yet. Imagine, after all the nasty behavior she's exhibited today!


Nirvana, she's too entitle. Cut off the gravy train!

Seriously my man, once a woman stops respecting you it's time for a reversal.

Are you in good physical shape? Start dressing well and getting in really good shape>


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## tom67

jdawg2015 said:


> Nirvana, she's too entitle. Cut off the gravy train!
> 
> Seriously my man, once a woman stops respecting you it's time for a reversal.
> 
> Are you in good physical shape? Start dressing well and getting in really good shape>


jdawg is mach 2.0
I like your thinking:grin2:


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## jsmart

Could she have restarted talking to POS? Possibly looking to find fault with you, so she can ease her guilt? Or she wants to talk to douche but is not and is resentful toward you because you're holding her back? 

You've upped your self career wise and that's good but you need to up yourself physically as well. Not saying you have to be some steroid muscle head but don't be the typical IT weakling. By getting in shape and improve your look, hairstyle, hygiene, ETC, you're sending an unmistakable message that you're a catch. Trust me, your wife will notice.


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## jdawg2015

jsmart said:


> Could she have restarted talking to POS? Possibly looking to find fault with you, so she can ease her guilt? Or she wants to talk to douche but is not and is resentful toward you because you're holding her back?
> 
> You've upped your self career wise and that's good but you need to up yourself physically as well. Not saying you have to be some steroid muscle head but don't be the typical IT weakling. By getting in shape and improve your look, hairstyle, hygiene, ETC, you're sending an unmistakable message that you're a catch. Trust me, your wife will notice.


I am also wondering the same thing. In her mind she's proabably got a "if he won't step in line I can gladly jump to someone who will do as I say".

OP, your last post about how she's acting towards you given that she was talking to another guy for long periods of time I think you really need to watch things. 

There's a reason she was talking to him on the way home and not in your presence.

A lot more behind this besides her new found job and being blind to advances from another guy. Make no mistake she knew it was not appropriate to be talking to him. 

You definitely need to go alpha mode here.


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## knightRider

Don't take disrespect from your wife, do not put her on a stool. 

Personally, I handle s*** tests differently, I don't take them. Check that she's not in touch with the guy from work, you can't ignore it. VARs are useful tools.


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