# Stepson, in-laws, major issues



## thedude3535 (Nov 17, 2021)

Fair warning, this is going to be long, as detail is needed.

This is my second marriage, been together over 12 years now, married 8. She came with 2 kids (then 8 and 2, now 15 and 21)). Older kid was unplanned when she was younger, and dad booked it very very early on. He came back (sort of, will explain later) right around the time I came into the picture. Younger kid was planned with her ex, but that relationship fell apart about a year after he was born, mutually. He's most definitely in the picture, a decent guy, but he's also a workaholic and frugal as all get-out, so he never really "does" anything with his kid (ie. road trips, vacations, go to sporting events, etc.) so there's never been a lot of bonding or memory-making. We're the opposite with the kids. Lots of vacations, day trips, doing stuff, even when at home. Anyway, this post is about the older kid!

Both kids are polar opposites of one another, and given the slight age gap (and different dads with very different circumstances) they've never been very close. The older one spent the first 5 or so years with just mom, so he's most definitely a momma's boy. When the younger one's dad came along, the older one largely rejected him (as it's been told to me), and that only got worse when his little brother was born. He was no longer the only person in his mom's life, and I can understand that. When they split up, he wasn't unhappy. So for about a year, it was just the three of them, and he rebounded a bit, from what I've heard.

Then I came along. I don't have kids of my own (ex wife didn't want any, and I got fixed). So this was new to me, but I embraced it, and genuinely enjoyed it. We didn't move in together for about 2 years, but they were almost always included in everything we did. We had couples time together of course, date nights and the like.

Back to the older one's bio-dad. He took off when he was a newborn. Just wasn't ready for it all. They were young, and had only been together a couple of months, and she already knew there was no future and was just about to end it with him when she learned she was pregnant. He tried to get his act together, so kudos to him for that, but ultimately it was too much and he dipped out shortly after the birth. She was actually relieved, she told me, as she is extremely independent and was more than happy to do this on her own, without needing to be tied to someone she didn't particularly want to for the next 20+ years.

When the older one turned 8, he started asking about his bio-dad. That led to wanting to meet him. She was very reluctant, but it's hard to say no, so she made a minimal effort (her words) to locate him, and sure enough, she got a message from him, just like that. Point of no return. At this exact same time, she and I had JUST started dating. Like, she told me all of this within about 2 weeks of our first date. It was very early on, I had been single/separated for about 7 months at that time, divorce was in progress, and I wasn't thinking long-term anyway, so no big deal, you do what you gotta do! She gave me an "out" if this was too much so early on, but I told her it's all good, I'm enjoying my time with you and I have my own baggage.

So within the first month we had been dating, her kid met his bio-dad for the first time since birth. He hadn't changed all that much in the 8 years, but he seemed to be interested in connecting with his son, immediately offered to pay her monthly for support, and things seemed headed in an okay direction, at least.

That fell apart quickly, though. He made big plans to spend time with his son. He was living about 90 minutes away from us at the time, but his mother lived in our city, so he could make things work. First time he was supposed to spend 2 days with him (at his mothers here in town), he kept us all waiting for almost 5 hours. The kid was so excited for this, he packed his little suitcase, we all went outside to wait for his dad at 9:30. 10:00 comes, mom gives him a call. Woke him up. Apologizes profusely, says he's on his way. Remember, he's 90 minutes away. We tell the kid he's running late, let's go back inside, he should be here around 11:30 or so. 11:30 rolls around, no sign. Give him a call again, he still hasn't left yet, says he was JUST heading out, be there for 1:30, if not earlier. Okay. We let it be. He shows up around 2:30. They go off and do whatever, spend the night at his grandmother's house. He drops him off at like 9 in the morning the next day (says he has to be back on base at whatever time - he had just joined the military) and that's that. Kid still had fun, met his uncles and cousins and had a lot to talk about. BUT, we determine his dad barely spent any time with him while there, it was mostly the rest of the family. So a full weekend of hanging out with his dad and getting to know him, turned into half an afternoon + an evening, mostly getting to know his extended family, only to be dropped off early the next morning.

His 9th birthday was coming up in a month, so big plans were made for bio-dad to come into town and be part of everything, kids birthday and all that. Laser tag, so he told all his friends his "army dad" was coming and he was going to kick everyone's butt at laser tag. He pulled the same thing. Everyone was at the laser tag place except him, so phone calls were made, he was "running late" but he'll be there. We delayed our group almost an hour before we all just went ahead. He called at some point, apologized and made an excuse, said he'd be at the house shortly for the birthday party, presents etc. He didn't make it to that, either.

Over the next few years, he did come through now and again, but it was often like this. Never on time (NEVER), a few cancellations. My wife (then girlfriend) didn't take long to read him the riot act and tell him to stop making promises, it's hurting the kid. Stop telling the kid he'd be here or there, or they'd do this or that - tell HER. And IF you show up, great. If you don't, then he doesn't know. Regardless, the kid figured it out early on, even at 9 years old, and he was, on the surface anyway, largely okay with it. I picked up the slack whenever I could and we bonded.

When we all moved in together, things were great for a few years. Older one called me "dad", we had a great relationship, all was good. He was still a momma's boy, sensitive, didn't have many friends, but he had a LOT of charisma, was extremely polite, and just a generally sweet kid. We got married when he was 11, and he gave a mature and tearful speech (in front of 100 people!) about how he feels he finally has a real dad. 100 people are in happy tears.

When he was 14, he met this girl online, lived about 10 hours away, in a different country. She was 15 - she said - and they started "dating". Given those circumstances and his age, we monitored his online interactions, which is extremely tricky at that age, but also necessary imo. We straight up told him, and told him why. Main reason being we wanted to make sure this WAS, in fact, a 15 year old girl. He did not like that he was being occasionally monitored, obviously, but sorry, you don't have a choice, this is a real and legitimate concern as parents and monitoring online interactions at 14 years old is part of today's landscape. We saw more than we would have liked (I'm sure you can imagine), but that comes with the territory, and it only really lasted a month. The wife friended her on social media as a way of getting to know her a bit, and also to snoop a bit and learn more, so the monitoring stopped entirely, thankfully.

This relationship lasted over 2 years. We actually went out of our way on two occasions to have them meet in person. A family roadtrip down South where we diverted to her on the way back, to spend about 6 hours there. And put her on a bus to a major city in the middle, met her there and spent the day, then brought her back to our city for a weekend. Worth mentioning that we did not like this girl AT ALL for a variety of reasons, but it was fairly harmless in the grand scheme of things, and we figured it makes him happy and it's definitely not going to last, anyway, so no big deal.

So she breaks up with him within a week of their second in-person meeting. He's devastated, obviously, and we console him, keep him occupied, do all the right things (and never tell him we didn't like her!). But he's changed, and not for the better. He starts being withdrawn, spends more time in his room - the usual teenage stuff. We check on him constantly, sit down and chat, try to get his mind off things. This goes on for a couple of months and affected him more than we thought it would. So we ride it out. Figure he's 16, he'll meet somebody else and forget all about this other girl.

Within the same month, his bio-dad tells him his girlfriend is pregnant, so he's going to have a little brother or sister. At this point, he still only sees his bio-dad a few times a year, but they stay in touch and have A relationship. I genuinely think this messed him up a lot, as his dad didn't stick around for him, but was (potentially) going to be a "real" dad to someone else. I get that.

Also my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and that was hard on all of us. My mom loved both kids and was over the moon at being "grandma", finally! Kids loved her, too.

So girlfriend dumps him, bio-dad is going to be a dad again, and grandma is given 2 years to live. All in 6 weeks. A rough time for him.

Sure enough, he does meet someone, within a few months of the breakup. He didn't even tell us for about a month that he met someone, but okay. It takes almost 3 months for us to meet her, which concerns us. But hey, this isn't long distance, and they're friends on social media. Because we're all connected, we quickly figure out who this mystery girl is, and for all intents and purposes, she seems like a perfectly normal 14 year old girl (he was 16 by now) from a good home, with a close family, etc. So this is already 100x better than the last one!

So every now and again, we ask when we get to meet her (we're excited!). He blows us off for a while, until one day, I ask him. His response was "I don't want her to meet you". Meaning me, and me only. I was floored. I asked why not, and he said "because I just don't want her to." I tell my (now wife) this, and she can't understand, either. So she's gentle about it, manages to ask him at some point when I wasn't around and got some vague "answers" that didn't make a whole lot of sense to her, but whatever - teenagers, I guess? We figure it may have to do with our previous online monitoring (when he was 14) and told him he's old enough now that we're not going to do that, and remind him that monitoring online interactions at 14 (and "dating" someone online who lives in a different country) is not abnormal in this day and age, but now that he's older, we'll absolutely respect his privacy in that way.

Not sure if that made a difference in things, but we met her very shortly after. She was a wonderful young lady. Brilliant, a great student, great family values, polite and well-spoken, had aspirations and goals (which she's since accomplished) and pretty much the kind of girl you'd want your teenage son to date. We hit it off immediately, she seemed to like us a lot, too, all was great with the world. Except our son was still in "a-hole" mode. Just chalked it up to teenage hormones, being 16, learning the realities of life and human interactions in the previous 2 years, etc.

We had interacted a few times with her mother (my wife, mostly) both in person and online, because our kids were dating. Wonderful lady, too, we also hit it off with her. About 2 months after meeting her, her mother sends me a message on facebook. Why me and not her mother, I don't know. Tells me her daughter is in tears and so upset because, and I quote, "you guys don't approve of their relationship and she isn't welcome in your house". Now, her mother was not accusing us of anything, she was apprehensive and was more inquiring if this was true or not. I tell her of course not, we adore her (true) and perhaps she got the wrong impression at some point, let's figure this out. I'm thinking she's a 14/15 year old girl and every little thing is a big deal and she wants to make a good impression to her boyfriends parents and maybe took something the wrong way. I don't know. Teenage drama.

So we let it sit for a bit, see her a few more times (always reluctance on the part of our son, though, he's still cold and distant at this point). And I get a message again, essentially saying the same thing, but a little more accusatory this time (lots of defending of her daughter and how great she is). And again, my head is spinning. 

Long story short, and it was obvious in hindsight, our son was telling her point blank that we didn't actually like her and didn't approve of the relationship and was doing whatever he could to keep her and us, apart, and therefore spend all his time at her place.

Now first of all, why this young lady didn't break up with him right then and there, I don't know. She absolutely tore a strip off him for making her think this, and more importantly, feel that way. But stayed with him nonetheless. Teenagers - _shrug_! It happened at least two more times in the ensuing months. We'd get messages asking what she did, or why we were mad at her, either from her or her mother. Would have to reassure her nothing was further from the truth, and let her draw her own conclusions about her boyfriend/our son. We genuinely figured he was ruining this relationship on his own, and he'd learn some lessons eventually, but nope, he kept getting away with it, somehow.

So after that point, she basically forced him to spend time with us, which he reluctantly did. We absolutely adored her, she really liked us - so he was going to have to suck it up. We figured he'd get past whatever it was he was doing, realize we accepted her as "family" and all would be right.

Every year, we take a vacation with a few of our friends during the winter. We all bring our kids every second year (we also make sure to do something with just them on the off-year). Because we also hit it off with our son's girlfriends parents, we extended the invite to them, and they accepted. We were all looking forward to it. There was a big group going, everyone had met each other at some point. 3 weeks before we were to leave on vacation, the mother messages me (again, not sure why it's always me) and says they're thinking of cancelling. I say that sucks, and ask her why. She's reluctant to say at first, but eventually tells me that she's "heard" that we don't really want them to come with us, and that the invite was out of politeness only. I tell her that's completely untrue, and given the past history of what our son has said to his girlfriend, I immediately ask her if it was our son who said this to her. She says yes, but that he was less direct and really only hinted at it. Didn't say it directly to her, but said enough to make her put 2 and 2 together on her own, and she was having reservations.

It took all I could to not say "oh my god stop believing this crap", but assured her this was not the case, and left her to, once again, draw her own conclusions in regards to what our son was, and had already done.

We genuinely figured our son was on thin ice with all of them, and would only be a matter of time before they had enough of his manipulations - and more importantly, making these people feel like crap, when he's supposed to love them. As of now, they've been together for almost 6 years and are engaged. And he's lived at their house for the past 3 years. These are not stupid people, not at all. But we can't figure out how he's still with her AND living there.

So why does he live there? Because he told them that he "does not feel safe at home anymore" when he was 18. So they said he can move in with them. At this point, I have to say that we are in NO way abusive, but that's essentially what we've been accused of. Our younger kid (now 15) can't understand any of this, either. And we don't, and never did, treat him any differently than his brother.

The worst part about this, is that several years ago, our older son told everyone in my wife's family, his girlfriend's family, and anyone else who would listen, that we treated him like garbage, that he didn't feel safe around me. My mother in law and one of my brothers in law did not question any of this, and immediately shut me, and only me, out completely. The other brother in law and my father in law (they are long divorced) questioned everything they were told because it didn't sound right to them. So my wife's family is fractured completely. Her mother told her she had to divorce me, right away. My wife tried to say "hang on a minute here!!!" but her mother, and I'm not making this up, told her to go F herself and that she'd never see her family again if she didn't divorce me. Then blocked her. They haven't spoken since. In the meantime, the MIL has talked **** to everyone else in the family about both of us (her own daughter!!!) and that side of the family no longer talks to my wife, either.

I realize this all makes us seem like trashy people, but we're all at least middle class or above, mostly educated (mother in law is not, I don't think she finished high school). Girlfriend's family is upper-upper middle class, educated and successful. I don't know why this matters, but all the same.

Current status - son is living at girlfriend's family's house for the past 3 years. They are newly engaged. He has already stated to his mother that she/we will not be invited to some things because my mother in law will be there and she does not want to be around me. That made my wife cry, obviously.

The girlfriends parents are constantly trying to smooth things over, but to no avail. Last thing said to my wife was "if your mother is invited to this or that, will you be okay going, too?" To which my wife said of course, we're there for our son. Yet our son still lives there. They're still together. The girlfriends parents let our son do whatever he wants, for the most part. Within 6 months of him moving in there, the mother messaged me and literally confirmed everything we had said about him while he was living here (that he doesn't DO anything, he leaves messes for everyone else to clean up, he's dirty, leaves his laundry in a pile next to the basket, waits for someone else to do it, etc etc etc.). SHE asked ME if she should kick him out, because she wanted to, lol. I mean... geez. She wanted MY opinion on how to handle it. In my head, I was like "are you serious???" This is your mess, you clean it up. But my logical side kicked in, and I gave her the opinion that he has pretty severe abandonment issues due to his bio-dad (and I believe that ex girlfriend was the catalyst for the severity of it) and that if she gives him the boot, he won't come back here and he may wind up going down a road that won't benefit him in the long run, especially when it comes to feeling abandoned. My wife had a very different opinion - let him learn his own lessons and fix his own messes, and she's not wrong. But to me, he was clearly very, very fragile to begin with, and that may have crushed him. Frankly, given his ongoing attitude to this day, I somewhat regret steering her away from telling him to find his own place, because he's learned exactly jack squat in the ensuing years, but all the same, he's headed in the right direction career-wise, among other ways.

Where we're at: Heads are still spinning. He's never said much about how we all got to this spot. IMO, he's happy and that's all that matters. He has what he wants, so he's good. I do somewhat think his previous actions snowballed more than he though, and he can't get out of it without basically admitting to anyone and everyone that he lied, exaggerated, made stuff up.

He has "a" relationship with us, currently. More his mother than me, but he doesn't act like he hates us anymore. I'm not sure how much of it is genuine and how much is that he's acting a certain way for the benefit of his girlfriend and her family.

My wife loves him - he's her son, after all - but she's also accepted that this is what, and who, he is. She'd be thrilled to have him (the old him) back at some point, but she's no longer waiting for that to happen. In our eyes, rightly or wrongly, he hasn't learned anything, at least life-wise, at this point. He's manipulated his way through things so far, and has a pretty great life to show for it. The girlfriend and her family, although lovely people, have not helped one bit. He still has to do very little, as far as we know. He's not listless, he's started a good career and is doing well, has some friends, and is living a cushy life. Basically, he's spoiled, but it is what it is. He's charming and smooth, is effortlessly hilarious and has all the tools to get what he wants, but he's also ruined people along the way - people who love him. And he's shown no remorse. We're still here for him - especially his mother - but we've largely let him fly the coop. He's 21 after all.

For me - and I HATE saying this - I don't really care one way or the other anymore, as far as how I fit into this. My only concern is my wife. I fought for him for years, only for him to double and triple down. I still don't know exactly what happened, but I suspect it has a lot to do with his bio-dad, his abandonment issues and perhaps his inability to believe that I, a "dad", did actually love him as a son. Perhaps I was on thin ice to begin with - 1 strike and I I'm out, I don't know. Teens are usually going to hate one or both of their parents at some point, if even briefly, and no doubt I or we upset him along the way. I'm sure that, in a perfect world, his bio-dad would have gotten back together with his mom, and he'd have both parents together and all would be right.

I don't really have a question here. I just don't know how to FEEL. I've given a lot of energy and love to this kid and he's attempted, and largely succeeded, in making me out to be a monster within my wife's family, for his own gain - and he's succeeded. I feel mostly for my wife, who essentially lost her firstborn, as well as a good chunk of her family, and watched while her son destroyed her and my reputations. I don't know what to feel about him, as a human being. I genuinely wonder if he's sociopathic and only cares about himself, and whether or not you treat him the way he feels he "should" be treated. Or if he's so broken because of his bio-dad that he simply trusts no one, not even his mother, if he, again, isn't treated how he feels he should be. He's most definitely surrounded himself with people who he can manipulate, who let him get away with things, who do things for him, give him what he wants, etc. And he's charming and likeable enough to maintain this, and he makes sure to treat his girlfriend like royalty, as well her parents and family. They all adore him - it's an Italian family, so there's a lot of them! He's the golden child, and he loves it.

In the interests of honesty here, I don't care about him as a son anymore. It was hard for me to admit that when it dawned on me sometime last year. I don't wish him any harm whatsoever, obviously, but I now care about him as the adult son of my wife - her son. As if she and I met when he was already this age and I certainly wouldn't have been expected to be a parent, if that makes sense. But breaks my heart what this has done to her. Is it wrong for me to want for his life to unravel at some point, so he learns how to be an adult human being? I mean, I don't actually want that, I care just enough about him that I don't want him to be unhappy, and frankly, his mental state at anything major happening might break him. But to watch him sail through life at the expense of others - including his own mother - infuriates me.

I told you this would be long.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

If you can give an executive summary you might get some responses. I for one will not read something this long.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

that was quite a story. 

all i can think of is: maybe THIS is why young guys are avoiding getting married nowadays. the hassles of trying to sort all this step father/son/daughter/ex stuff would blow MY mind. i do not know how you do it! More power to you, man! be strong.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

This is a hard read but in my opinion the solution is pretty obvious. He associates you with his bio dad not turning up when he made plans and he feels if you hadn’t been there his dad would have stuck around and got back with his mom. 
Either way he doesn’t want you in his life.
So don’t be in his life.


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## thedude3535 (Nov 17, 2021)

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking as well. There's definitely an association, probably more than one.

The thing is, he bonded with me, called me "dad", and we had a great relationship for many years. He never rejected me at the beginning, either.

I do recall him assuming his parents would get back together. He was 8 at the time, and he said as much. A bit young to fully understand relationships.

I genuinely can't remember if I mentioned my MIL in my post (lol), but she's been awful throughout this. When bio-dad showed up, at the same time my wife and I started dating, she did actually try to set them up for "family dinners" and invited him over without my wife knowing. (MIL lived in the basement of my wife's house...) There were times when she would get home from work and there he was, sitting in the living room. Not once did she follow through with MIL's "plans", and she did read her the riot act about inviting him there without her knowledge.

And as far as bio-dad interacting with me at that time, he paid little attention to me. I didn't think at the time that he saw me as "competition", because come on - was he expecting to get back together with the woman he ditched 8 years prior? But, as I said, after some initial visits and contact, it slowed down to a crawl, and maybe it was because he realized I wasn't going anywhere. My wife says he never hit on her or suggested anything.

But yes, I'm sure he has since associated me being around to not having his bio-parents together, but I don't think that's 100% it.


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## thedude3535 (Nov 17, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> If you can give an executive summary you might get some responses. I for one will not read something this long.


Yeah, I know... I'm a detail guy, and there's unfortunately a lot of moving parts to this. Amazingly, I've omitted stuff, too.

tl;dr - stepson and I were great together for many years. He hit 15, several things happened "to" him (first girlfriend, long-distance, dumped him and it wasn't pretty; bio-dad got his girlfriend pregnant, my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer - all within several weeks of one another). He revolted/rebelled, we tried to be there for him, I became the scapegoat.

Rather than just work our way through things, he instead tried (and was fairly successful) in ruining me, in order to remove me from his life. A lot of lies (that I call him stupid all the time, that I told him he'd never amount to anything, that I told him I never wanted kids, etc.) Some people believed him (MIL, one BIL) and they turned on my wife immediately. Didn't even question what he was saying, just went with it. Told her to divorce me. She took issue with this, while remaining calm and not losing her head, and eventually MIL told her to F-off (literally) and that unless she divorced me, she'd never see her family again. Then blocked her. This really messed up my wife, obviously. They haven't spoken since, and MIL swooped in to play the role of mom to my stepson. Prior to this, she saw her grandson on birthdays, christmas, etc. All of a sudden, they had this super tight relationship.

He spent most of his time at his girlfriends (wonderful young lady, good family, and her and her mom kept us in the loop about things and really did try to help, but no boundaries) so he was really only here to sleep. Girlfriend would always try to get us all together to do something, but he always resisted. When forced, he would pick fights and not be good company at all.

When he turned 18, he informed his girlfriend he was going to move out on his own (no job, just started college) and that didn't go over well with the girlfriend (who was still only 16). He still "lived" her, but we really didn't see him, he was always there. Eventually, he concocted a sob-story to his girlfriends grandfather (!!!) about how he didn't feel safe living at home, so grandfather told him he could live there, with all of them. So that happened. Like I said, no boundaries from this family.

Still long, but easier to read


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## thedude3535 (Nov 17, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> that was quite a story.
> 
> all i can think of is: maybe THIS is why young guys are avoiding getting married nowadays. the hassles of trying to sort all this step father/son/daughter/ex stuff would blow MY mind. i do not know how you do it! More power to you, man! be strong.


TBH I knew going in that I would never be a true parent, but I never acted that way. Even though he called me dad and we did have a father/son relationship, it was always in the back of my mind that my existence was always on thin ice. One slip up, real or imagined, and not having the benefit of truly being family/biologically related and that could be it. I've been divorced before. My in-laws and I all loved one another, and I really was part of their family. The marriage ended (she cheated and left for someone else) and I didn't exist anymore. I mean, I didn't expect to, of course, but you lose more than a partner when these things happen. It was always in the back of my mind that if my wife no longer wanted to be with me, that I would also no longer be a dad to her kids. Meanwhile, bio-dad who left his girlfriend with a newborn and disappeared for 8 years, is welcomed back by one and all, including my stepson. I get it, that's the way it goes. Bio-parents can get away with pretty much anything. Step parents are constantly on thin ice and have to be perfect. As I said, I knew that going in.

It's funny, because some of the people who now despise me, used to tell me all the time how great it was that I was willing to be a parent to somebody else's child, or how difficult it must be, and all that. I always regarded those things as unnecessary and silly - I loved this kid as if he were my own, it's not a big deal.

My wife and I are abundantly aware that if I were bio-dad, this would have been a blip on the radar.


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