# Discussions are biased to divorce



## SomeDamagedGoods (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm new on here and, like most of you, have been looking for good relationship advice. The website is terrific and I like all the frank talk about the, at times, delicate topics.

Something that has amazed me is how many replies to posters are quick to advise "run" or "time to divorce" as if that decision can be made so lightly (what about kids, finances, relatives, etc..). Does this reflect what people really do when they are in the described situations?

The thread counts may suggest so:

"Considering Divorce" has 4,318 threads
"Going through Divorce" has 5,901 threads
"Reconciliation" has 294 threads.
"Long Term Success in Marriage" has 214 threads

Should the site be called "Talk About Divorce" instead?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

We had this discussion only a few days ago. I don't see this place as trigger happy on divorce but I will suggest divorce when reading threads that clearly are about very unhealthy relationships.

Divorce is up there on the top of the list of most difficult life choices. But you know what, at times it really is a better option.

After going through an unhealthy marriage and then divorcing I would encourage anyone to be honest with themselves and truly evaluate their choices.
Divorce is a healthier option that living a miserable life. It is hard work and very painful but at least it is doing something proactive rather than sitting in a situation that is abusive or neglectful.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep. You are correct. I've noticed it as well. It is the condition of our world today. Sad, but true.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If you really look at the advice you will find that many times it is to tell the poster that they should not accept the abuse any longer. That they must tell the abuser that what they are doing is unacceptable. So yes indeed standing ones ground is critical to turning around a bad situation.

Mostly it is about helping the poster get back their self respect. 

Now very often people wait until the situation is very bad where their partner is in an affair and refuses to stop. Essentailly these situations are no longer marriages except in name only. So filing for a divorce is a step towards forcing a reconciliation or moving on.


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## SomeDamagedGoods (Nov 11, 2012)

Affairs and abuse seem like easier situations to "judge" and my heart goes out to these poor people.

Unfortunately (weird word to use in this context) there are large shades of gray in marriages to the point where it seems like "if you are not happy, leave" is the predominant advice.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sometimes the only way to make things change is to stand up for yourself and be willing to move away from a bad situation. At the point that many people come into here, they've tried many different things, and are still in the same predicament. They've taught their spouse that no matter what they say, they are willing to endure whatever negative behaviour the other spouse is dishing out. The only way to break that pattern is to start implementing boundaries, and then making sure they're enforced.

C


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> there are large shades of gray in marriages to the point where it seems like "if you are not happy, leave" is the predominant advice.


I have NO QUALMS about telling someone to get a divorce if they are unhappy. It all depends on the circumstances. If they state that they have tried MC in the past, or spouse is refusing to go to MC, then I don't have a problem telling them to walk. I see NOTHING WRONG with divorce and I won't apologize for it. A happy, long-term marriage is the ideal, but very infrequently works out. I believe it is USUALLY extremely unrealistic to expect that a couple will be happy with each other over the course of a life of 5 decades together.

Life is short and we are responsible for our own happiness. I, personally, do not believe you get any EXTRA STARS in your crown in heaven for being a martyr. If you do, then heaven is NOT a place I care to spend eternity.

For every person like me at TAM who does NOT believe that marriage is some holy, sacred union, but a CHOICE made by two (presumable) adults, there are plenty more who believe that marriage IS some holy, sacred union.

I don't judge others' beliefs. If people want rah-rah, pro-marriage-at-all-costs advice, there are PLENTY of websites run by religious organizations that espouse those beliefs.

Here at TAM, you get a plethora of advice from ALL corners offered by people who've been there, done that, seen it all, and still give a rat's about helping someone else!

I LOVE TAM just the way it is!


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Divorce is better than cheating IMHO. If you are unhappy, talk of divorce can sometimes bring the marriage back on track. But if you are unhappy, have an affair, and then ask for divorce, then it is one of the most cruel thing you can do to the person you promised to spend the rest of your life with.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I can't say that I've encountered many threads here where divorce has been suggested as a first option to a poster. By the time many people reach a forum like TAM, they've often exhausted all options available to them, including MC.

If there is an irretrievable breakdown of marriage, or the relationship is abusive, divorce is often the healthiest option for all concerned.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

And very often by the time people seek help, it's borderline too late.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

People don't often come to advice forums when they are happy in their marriage. It's when the marriage is in trouble that they seek support. So of course there is more talk about divorce where people talk about marriages in trouble.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SomeDamagedGoods said:


> Affairs and abuse seem like easier situations to "judge" and my heart goes out to these poor people.
> 
> Unfortunately (weird word to use in this context) there are large shades of gray in marriages to the point where it seems like *"if you are not happy, leave" is the predominant advice*.


Not seen much of that on this forum. I have read a lot of threads.

But perhpas you mena saying that if they are unhappy, divorce ... never cheat.

Then for sure I stand on that. If you are thinking about cheating it is better to work on your marriage and if you cannot divorce. Never cheat.


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## SomeDamagedGoods (Nov 11, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Not seen much of that on this forum. I have read a lot of threads.
> 
> But perhpas you mena saying that if they are unhappy, divorce ... never cheat.
> 
> Then for sure I stand on that. If you are thinking about cheating it is better to work on your marriage and if you cannot divorce. Never cheat.


Waitwaitwait....

The point I was making was that many threads jump to advising the big D even if the issues with the marriage are not abuse and/or infidelity (those seem like slam-dunks). Many seem like just unhappy people - not necessarily thinking about cheating or divorce (at least not yet).

I've never come across a thread that justified cheating - including as if that was an alternative to divorce.

Related question - what is a situation where you can not divorce?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

SomeDamagedGoods said:


> Waitwaitwait....
> 
> The point I was making was that many threads jump to advising the big D even if the issues with the marriage are not abuse and/or infidelity (those seem like slam-dunks). Many seem like just unhappy people - not necessarily thinking about cheating or divorce (at least not yet).
> 
> ...


Good question. Personally, I don't see any situation where one CAN'T divorce... only where they CHOOSE not to divorce. The majority of the threads I have seen do not jump straight to "just divorce if you're unhappy" immediately. If they do, it is because the post is so far out there that the people responding are flippant... a sarcastic remark. At least, that's always been my take...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Related question - what is a situation where you can not divorce?


Can't imagine one right off the top of my head. Spouse in a coma, spouse has mental disease, spouse has long-term illness...nope, nope, nope. I can't imagine a situation where I would tell someone 'You can't get a divorce'.

Of course, I'm NOT advocating that someone DIVORCE their spouse because they have a mental disease or a long-term illness. I AM advocating that IF you were ALREADY SERIOUSLY considering leaving your spouse BEFORE s/he was diagnosed with their disease (mental OR physical), then you should not let the diagnosis "guilt" you into STAYING just BECAUSE of the disease. You didn't marry them BECAUSE of the disease, therefore you shouldn't stay married to them BECAUSE of the disease.


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

SomeDamagedGoods said:


> I'm new on here and, like most of you, have been looking for good relationship advice. The website is terrific and I like all the frank talk about the, at times, delicate topics.
> 
> Something that has amazed me is how many replies to posters are quick to advise "run" or "time to divorce" as if that decision can be made so lightly (what about kids, finances, relatives, etc..). Does this reflect what people really do when they are in the described situations?
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I think there are a lot of people here that have been hurt and been forced down that path and its natural to have their advice to be inclined. Not every suspected infidelity means cheating. A wife can be friends with a guy . Eyes wander. Even in the face of infidelity, many marriages can be saved.


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Good question. Personally, I don't see any situation where one CAN'T divorce... only where they CHOOSE not to divorce. The majority of the threads I have seen do not jump straight to "just divorce if you're unhappy" immediately. If they do, it is because the post is so far out there that the people responding are flippant... a sarcastic remark. At least, that's always been my take...


Could people that can't afford divorce be an option? Or where people are concerned about the effect on the children? (admittedly that's a choice but a terrible one).


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

Usually the person will want to change within six months if given a decision to separate. Separate should be about reconciliation-more a wake up call to the partner who doesnt want to change. That is what it used to be. 
Also the children especially if the partner doesnt want to change within or less than six months is not good fo rthem to be learning the unhealthy thing of what the parent is doing like cheating etc. Abuse of any kind should not be tolerated. Children from abuse homes will tell you they wished there parent divorced. 
(speak from alot of angles)
Some friends of mine that I know -there spouse was unwilling to change and hid the affair etc until the partner found out and not wanting to change.
The challenge and problem with some partnerships is there is a lack of commonality of things to do together that leaves the marriage among other things destined to not work if the couple dont find some in common among other things. 

And the lack of male female differences not being understood like the woman needs to be feeling emotionally and mentally close with her partner for nonsexual touch to occur. etc. 

Brief of it

Judith


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Not everyone really believes marriage is a lifelong commitment. People go into it with the idea it should be like in the movies, and when it's not, they decide they married the wrong person, end the marriage, and try again.

My own religious values are that marriage is lifelong unless the spouse is unfaithful. In my case my spouse was unfaithful and we stayed together. Later I came close to infidelity myself. 

Recovering from that makes you rethink what marriage is.

I can well understand someone who sees ending a marriage because it is not good enough as a reasonable option, but I think they are short changing themselves.

But then, I can see how they would say the same of me. Ultimately, you only get one shot at the "single marriage for life" thing. You can never know how it would have turned out had you made the opposite choice.

And the advice on TAM reflects the different values, journeys and cultures of the people who post here.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

If your here, you've probably got a marriage that is in trouble... the only differences is the degree of trouble.

I've read some horrific posts..about abusive marriage full of violence, mental health issues and substance abuse. 

These marriages need to end.... clearly!

But don't ever think TAM represent average society... it represents a struggling part of society.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

waiwera said:


> If your here, you've probably got a marriage that is in trouble... the only differences is the degree of trouble.
> 
> I've read some horrific posts..about abusive marriage full of violence, mental health issues and substance abuse.
> 
> ...


While I agree with you broadly, it's not universally true.

My wife and I had our brushes with infidelity in the early to mid 1990s, and are over them. I actually found TAM while googling ideas for nice things to do for my wife. When I looked around I was drawn to the infidelity section as part of forming a deeper understanding of what had happened to us. Found I was able to help a few people, wished I had had a resource like this when we were in a bad place (it was more or less pre internet!!!! OK so I am old) so I stay around to try and help.

That said, the scars of infidelity still hurt, so maybe you would say I am still broken. But my motivation is to help others, not myself.

Sometimes a marriage collapses and it is so sad to watch. Sometimes TAM helps save the marriage and it is good to be part of that.


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## SomeDamagedGoods (Nov 11, 2012)

waiwera said:


> But don't ever think TAM represent average society... it represents a struggling part of society.


I'm not so sure about this. When I think of all the people around me, work, neighborhood, extended family, that are divorced - it seems to be more the norm than the exception. Most people I know have been divorced at least once.

Makes me think that for the long haul, it's really difficult to stay married unless you have religious or social influences.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

farside said:


> Could people that can't afford divorce be an option? Or where people are concerned about the effect on the children? (admittedly that's a choice but a terrible one).


Can't afford it? Well, based on the experiences of my sisters, a friend and another woman I know, no, it's not. Each of them file this one piece of paper to waive or at least reduce the filing fees, etc. 

As for the children... what is better? Having mom and dad under the same roof, constantly fighting, giving a poor example of what a relationship SHOULD be.... or having mom and dad separated/divorced, able to make a happy life, and hopefully find a better example of a relationship for the kids to see? Granted, SOME can be civil, even when still living under the same house. But the majority, from what I have seen, cannot.

I don't advocate divorce, except for marital infidelity. However, if one parent insists on making life miserable for the other parent as long as they are together... how does that benefit the children?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

SomeDamagedGoods said:


> Affairs and abuse seem like easier situations to "judge" and my heart goes out to these poor people.
> 
> *Unfortunately (weird word to use in this context) there are large shades of gray in marriages to the point where it seems like "if you are not happy, leave" is the predominant advice.*


Very true! I was told that more times than I can count, and my situation was certainly nothing to get divorced over. So after awhile, I would end up defending myself, my husband and our marriage to these people...which prompted even more negative comments. At one point, I remember saying that many others around here put up with far worse, I got lambasted, and was told that I shouldn't compare my situation to others. Which is kind of hard to do when you read about people who've just gone through their 3rd, 4th, 5th D-Day...


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## Weathered (Dec 15, 2009)

There will be more of the soul searching and desperate spouses coming to write about their plight and bounce questions and ideas around here, which does have a bias towards troubled relationships. But that too is OK since the forum is all about building one another up and helping others in their time of need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

I have noticed the change on this board. When I first started reading it was very pro marriage. However now I must agree with the OP, 'divorce' seems to be the first suggestion to most problems.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

JJG said:


> I have noticed the change on this board. When I first started reading it was very pro marriage. However now I must agree with the OP, 'divorce' seems to be the first suggestion to most problems.


I didn't post about a recent issue because I knew the responses would be I should throw her sh!t on the lawn because of the way she reacted, even though the "fault" was 50/50. 

But in talking with her, we both agreed it was a divorce worthy issue (only time in 20 years, not infidelity). I think laying that on the table right away helped us. Not sure I would have done that before TAM. I may still post about it, but only when it's fully resolved.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

I think divorce is tragic. I mean, you basically cut off a complete life that you have built with someone and it amazes me how many people throw that away like it's nothing on another P.O.A. or an emotional fling with an almost complete stranger. You have kids with this person, combine families, know every aspect of this person that you've shared a life with and in many cases...are with at least half of your life (there are a lot of 'divorcing after 20 years of marriage' threads out there) and then to just leave it behind and start new with someone that knows nothing about you, has no history with your close friends or family, you cannot share all the moments you've had over your previous years because they were not there and do not know about them...I just don't get it. I don't know why anyone would want that. 

Part of my joy with my husband, who is nowhere near perfect, is saying, "Hey, remember when so-and-so was drunk at that party and passed out and so-and-so drew on his face with that permanent marker?" Just an example...all those moments you put into the back of your mind and then want to bring up later and reminesce about and can't because the person you shared it with is no longer there. How can you willingly leave that behind? 

I've had a lot of people say my husband is a jerk and I need to kick him to the curb but when I consider it I think of all those times we've had and memories and the life we've made together and I just can't do it. They aren't all bad.


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