# Infidelity questions



## ILoveWomen (Jun 11, 2018)

I have read a great number of posts here and on other marriage and psychology sites about why people are unfaithful. Men do it for different reasons than women, it's not really cheating if, should I take him/ her back etc. 

I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful. 

I have been married a long time and my wife knows you cheat, I leave. That is the beginning and the end of it. If I were unfaithful, I would expect the same from her.

Once a partner is unfaithful, it means they no longer want to be in a relationship with the other. I does not matter the reason, people can rationalize anything. It is never what you think that matters it is what you do.

Lives of people change over time and their wants and needs are bound to change as well. Isn't it better to approach the deficiencies in the relationship prior to infidelity? Do people think they wont be caught? ( I think many do). 

Is it just a way to end a bad relationship? 

If anyone here has been in this situation: If you knew your spouse would divorce you if you cheated. Would you still do it? Yes you might still love your spouse and could have a great deal invested in the relationship the effect on children and extended family etc. Is losing all that is worth being unfaithful? 

I read this in an article about why women cheat.

"I'm nicer to my husband when I have something special going on that's just for me." She found that she was kinder, more patient, less resentful, "less of a *****." 
It occurred to me as I listened that these women were describing infidelity not as a transgression but a creative or even subversive act, a protest against an institution they'd come to experience as suffocating or oppressive."

"These women were turning to infidelity not as a way to explode a marriage, but as a way to stay in it" (stay in it? The logic here escapes me)

So your marriage is better if you are getting banged on the side? That would not bother you?

If I went to my wife and said " You know I would be a much better husband if you just let me have sex with other women" What would your answer be?

This is one of the few areas that anger me personally. I seems to make no sense.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Trying to explain why people cheat is like trying to explain why certain genre's of music appeal to people. Everyone is different and the love someone has for a certain genre may be completely different for someone else.

There are layers that are impossible explain. Look at famous actors, or tiger woods, for example; who have beautiful sexy wives yet cheat anyway. So looks isnt everything.

Then there are women looking for someone better... or emotional pieces missing from their life... sometimes its just the thrill of doing something naughty that gets the blood flowing.

Finally, Telling your spouse that "if you cheat I will leave" is probably the same lines spoken in every relationship where infidelity exists


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Only about 35% or couples do stay married after infidelity. Supposedly, 45% or women will stay with a cheating husband. I guess that means only about 15% of men are willing to reconcile. The big catch is that only twenty percent of cheaters get caught according to studies. It’s claimed that about one third of married people cheat.

Who really cares why they destroy their families, they can’t even explain it. Many that do did not want a divorce and claim undying love for their spouse.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ILoveWomen said:


> I have read a great number of posts here and on other marriage and psychology sites about why people are unfaithful. Men do it for different reasons than women, it's not really cheating if, should I take him/ her back etc.
> 
> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.
> 
> ...


People cheat for lots of reason, but it all comes down to that they want to. Most think they will never get caught. 

Don't read clickbait articles and try to get anything of substance from them.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

ILoveWomen said:


> "These women were turning to infidelity not as a way to explode a marriage, *but as a way to stay in it*" (stay in it? The logic here escapes me)
> 
> So your marriage is better if you are getting banged on the side? That would not bother you?
> 
> ...


I think this means that the alternative would be divorce, and all the mess that entails for the family, the children, etc. The affair here is the equivalent of a pain-killer: it makes the pain of an unhappy marriage bearable, where divorce would be even more painful, probably for everyone affected. It makes a kind of twisted sense - if they get away with it (and many do).


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is a matter of 'wants' morphing into 'needs'.

Can past vows be painted over, likely also 'pained' over.... to get these new wants......met.

The initial vow maker, now vow breaker must make this case.

Some vows stated by some people have shallow roots.
A little shake, a little tug....out go the roots.

The avowed plant takes its roots elsewhere.
Or, the roots just dangle.

Some dangle down from the male doodle. Like a tassel.
Some dangle from 'some' females only deep part, the furry brow, that warm dark cave.... down below.

These types never find soil, never latch tight, keeping firm boundaries.

The top half of their human 'plant' has all the meat, all the bones.
All the strength.

The roots?
These, they are superficial structures.

Their allegiance, their home?
Where ever the man hangs his hat, the women hangs her babushka.

For these folks and their numbers grow every day, they have allegiance to endorphins, to sexual stimulation.
Caresses of the flesh, caresses of the ego.
Allegiance to make me feel good.

Anything tickling and rubbing their 'flattery flipper'.

If one is single and 'free' ha, ha; that too is a ruse, a dream; then one is free to take and taste of life's sweets.



The thing is......

When one party enjoys, partakes in carnal, in mental pleasure, it is 'often' at the expense of the other. 
Especially, when one makes promises and vows, never supported by roots, by backbone.

If it feels good, it is good. The Bohemian Code of Conduct. 
Sodom and Gomorrah revisited.

When one gets off, gets his/her fill, the other does the giving the other the taking.

Oh, there are exceptions: as when 'two of the same feather' meet mid-air, they bump wings, bump beaks, clasp each other in ecstasy...then fly off. 
Both happy ducks, happy quackers. Never Quakers. 

For them, not the Avow-ee. The person given the promise, missing the wink, given the secret boot.

Superficial roots on a human 'Tumbleweed'.


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## ILoveWomen (Jun 11, 2018)

Steve2.0 said:


> Trying to explain why people cheat is like trying to explain why certain genre's of music appeal to people. Everyone is different and the love someone has for a certain genre may be completely different for someone else.
> 
> There are layers that are impossible explain. Look at famous actors, or tiger woods, for example; who have beautiful sexy wives yet cheat anyway. So looks isnt everything.
> 
> ...


It is not so much a question of why people cheat. I's sure that everyone that was unfaithful had a "good" Reason to do it. The disconnect between the reason someone is unfaithful and the consequences of the behavior is what troubles me.

Then we get the questions of should I stay or go? It is partially the spouses fault. Etc. 

There will always be infidelity for sure. That will never stop. I am not trying to understand why people do it. I cant understand why people do it and then excuse it, or try to make it into something that means something else. If I jump off a bridge, I pretty much understand what is going to happen next.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

If you claim its a deal breaker then they cheat and you stay, then your word means exactly what? Too many cheaters know their spouse will fold like a cheap set of lawn chairs if they were to get caught no matter their words or they care so little about their mate to have any second thoughts. 

There is no reason for someone to cheat other than they wanted to. People tear themselves in knots trying to figure out the why's, blaming the AP, reading hundreds of books on psychobabble or listening to shrinks to analyze their cheater's FOO issues. Just go over to SI and listen to the rationalization hamster spin its wheels, using stupid acronyms like fWS (former Wayward Spouse) to differentiate them from you average run of the mill cheater. Its just plain absurd what these adulterers get away with from their BS because the mean old AP monster victimized them.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Those articles are gibberish. Written by people who can't live up to any type of standard so they think if they can get everyone else to lower their standards too then they don't have to feel bad about themselves. I'm a sovereign individual with inalienable rights. One of those rights is I can set whatever standard I want for myself and I choose integrity. Cheaters have ZERO integrity.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ultimately, the reason for cheating can be distilled down to one basic reason: Selfishness. 

A person cheats because he or she wants to. Simple as that. Everything else is just glitter and bunting.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Ultimately, the reason for cheating can be distilled down to one basic reason: Selfishness.
> 
> A person cheats because he or she wants to. Simple as that. Everything else is just glitter and bunting.


I read a thread on Reddit one day where someone was questioning their WW about her infidelity and they asked why she cheated. She said she wasn't getting the attention she desired, wasn't getting her needs filled so she went outside the marriage to get it. They then said to her "well, we've been flat broke quite a few times. We didn't get the income we needed from our crappy jobs. Why didn't you rob a bank to get us more money?" She said no way she'd ever do that, she wouldn't want to go to prison no matter how bad she needed the money. Then he followed with "so the risk and potential fallout from robbing a bank was worse than the reward so you wouldn't do it." At that point she was catching on to where he was going so she just gave some glib response and that was it but he was spot on. The reason she would readily cheat to get attention but wouldn't rob a bank to get more money was purely because of risk vs reward. There's no real fallout from cheating anymore. A person cheats, gets caught, might get divorced, and they get half their spouse's stuff and ride off into the sunset.

Would their be as much cheating if the risk/reward ratio was different?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

VermiciousKnid said:


> Would their be as much cheating if the risk/reward ratio was different?


I think there would be _slightly _less. People have always cheated, even when there's a death penalty involved if caught. People are notoriously bad at evaluating risk/reward - the reward is immediate, whereas the nebulous risk is in the future - if you're even caught, and that is often underestimated.

To put it in perspective, one third of murders go unsolved, and every resource and technological advance is used to solve them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Human tumbleweeds, these, those cheaters.
Having immense wants, shallow needs, shallow roots, thin veneers.

Surface feeders....they.
Uh, huh..

Rolling from one entanglement to another.
Not free, subject to the wind..... the huff, the puff, the exhaled breath of Fate.

These folks, they are hungry for admiration, for love, for pleasure.
Not bad these wants. Not bad in moderation.....asked for, given from an open hand, an open air of generosity.

These wants given, done so in the open. From generous hearts, from loving spirit. 
Especially, those that have been given prior promises.

Reciprocal acts of love. From honest hearts.
Not 'only' from reciprocal motion of male and female hips.

From hips, from minds, locked in 'honest' embrace, in unison. 
Doing the to-and-fro, back-and-forth reciprocal motion.
Doing mutual 'acceptable' good to all parties involved.

Cheaters calculate, perform only half of the relationship challenge, really duty.

Tumbleweeds, flawed humans. 
Having all the parts, the appearance of full men and women.

It seems...
It seems they are bottom heavy, bottom centered.
Good for making love, not sustaining it.



SunCMars- filling in for the missing host.
This post is apt.


The Host went over the wall.....is seeking the fabled Brigadoon.
Such a fool, he. I can say more.

More will paint him, lash him to the Mast.................


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VermiciousKnid said:


> Would their be as much cheating if the risk/reward ratio was different?


Death to cheaters?

Dig a hole, dig it neck deep, bury the cheater.
Throw rocks at the cheaters lying-at-dirt-level head, until 'they' are dead?

This was done, In times past.

What can be done? 

Have laws against cheating?
Apply breach of contract after thighs have been breached, been parted. 
Those thighs, the parted thighs with the split peach at the center.
By law, now are 'owned' by another?

And the vaunted Peckerwood, this too, would be owned and managed by the other owner. The peach holder.
Such unauthorized use would be subject to theft of affection, theft of free usage by said owner.

This will prevent marriage.
Will not prevent pregnancy.
Little children will be subject [more so] to single, unattached, uninvolved parents.

A good thought this: making the risk more punitive.
Hard to enforce, to adjudicate. 

The courts would be flooded, with flippant complaints, suits, battles.
Ah, the backlog....I see years and years, waiting to have ones day in court.
Waiting in limbo.

Wanting to remarry. Find a new love. But still attached....legally.


Tying up both parties, the cheater and the betrayed.


SunCMars-


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> Would their be as much cheating if the risk/reward ratio was different?


I think it would make some difference. There will still be people that think they can get away with it, but there would be others that come to their senses that it isn't worth a little strange. 

But what would be the standard of proof? Afterall, we wouldn't want to throw innocent people in jail. I mean how many people have video evidence of infidelity, like sex tapes, date stamped and a clear visual of the offenders. If you hire a PI and he has photos of them heading to a hotel together, everyone can deduce they had sex, but they can always claim they just stopped in to use the restroom, play a game of monopoly or whatever cheater excuse they can think of. Are we allowed to enter texting evidence? They can always say they didn't meet or were just role playing. You'd end up with a handful of really stupid people in jail and the rest walking from lack of enough proof. 

It would make people think twice, but people would realize their is very little chance even if caught they will have anything to worry about legally. It would just be one of those unenforceable laws. Better to just leave it up to the couple to handle those disputes internally. Sure, the cheater will always win, but whats the alternative?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Why do cheaters cheat...only one reason.
Lack of integrity, forthrightness, principle and fundamental honesty.

oh and maybe mental illness.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> Ultimately, the reason for cheating can be distilled down to one basic reason: Selfishness.
> 
> A person cheats because he or she wants to. Simple as that. Everything else is just glitter and bunting.


Nah, I'm pretty sure that my ex-wife accidentally fell on some guy's junk, then had to verify that that is what happened--for years!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

michzz said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure that my ex-wife accidentally fell on some guy's junk, then had to verify that that is what happened--for years!


It is amazing how some women have the ability to stop themselves from falling by using their vulvas to snag a protruding penis nearby....


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ILoveWomen said:


> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.


I've always assumed infidelity = done. No need to discuss it as part of the rules of the relationship.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> It is amazing how some women have the ability to stop themselves from falling by using their vulvas to snag a protruding penis nearby....


Is that why I like to watch drunk women fall down or am I just a jerk?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VermiciousKnid said:


> Those articles are gibberish. Written by people who can't live up to any type of standard so they think if they can get everyone else to lower their standards too then they don't have to feel bad about themselves. I'm a sovereign individual with inalienable rights. One of those rights is I can set whatever standard I want for myself and I choose integrity. Cheaters have ZERO integrity.


Some pick and choose where Integrity starts...and ends. In 'their' vaunted opinion.

Their peers say they have no integrity. VK says 'this' be true.

I say a hole in the boat 'eventually' sinks all ships, sinks all slips.....of integrity.
Takes the Wayward Captain, takes the Cheater, to the bottom.
Bottom feeders they are, become.

There from whence they must forever climb, from...


The Typist I -


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

I haven't read any of the other responses yet, but I wanted to address the original post from my unique perspective. Both my husband and I have cheated (3 years ago for me, 7 years ago for him),



ILoveWomen said:


> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.
> 
> I have been married a long time and my wife knows you cheat, I leave. That is the beginning and the end of it. If I were unfaithful, I would expect the same from her.


We didn't discuss it actually. We did discuss our views regarding sex (casual, committed etc) and how traditions such as marriage were not important to us. 




ILoveWomen said:


> Once a partner is unfaithful, it means they no longer want to be in a relationship with the other.


In our case, this is absolutely not true. 



ILoveWomen said:


> Lives of people change over time and their wants and needs are bound to change as well. Isn't it better to approach the deficiencies in the relationship prior to infidelity? Do people think they wont be caught? ( I think many do).


While I agree with this, and it sounds great in theory, many who find themselves in the situation do not have that level of clarity and perspective at the moment. This comes out as hind sight stuff. 

As for getting caught, yes many do believe they will not get caught - and many, in fact do not get caught. 



ILoveWomen said:


> Is it just a way to end a bad relationship?


In our case, no. 



ILoveWomen said:


> If anyone here has been in this situation: If you knew your spouse would divorce you if you cheated. Would you still do it? Yes you might still love your spouse and could have a great deal invested in the relationship the effect on children and extended family etc. Is losing all that is worth being unfaithful?


In my situation, doesn't really apply. First, I was pretty confident, that if caught, he would take me back. We do not have children, nor much an extended family, so the repercussions wouldn't have extended much further than our relationship. 



ILoveWomen said:


> If I went to my wife and said " You know I would be a much better husband if you just let me have sex with other women" What would your answer be?


I know a few relationships where at least one partner has a "hall pass" - so there are actually couples that do this. Obviously for most its a deal killer, but not for all. 

If my husband came to me and requested this - we would talk about. We have considered swinging in the past (let me tell you, joining a swinging group is a real eye opener. I had no idea how many seemingly "normal" neighbors of mine are into this stuff!). 



ILoveWomen said:


> This is one of the few areas that anger me personally. I seems to make no sense.


Why are you angered personally by what other people do in their relationships? If neither you or your wife would ever cheat, what is the problem? Why the _anger_ if you are not affected?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ILoveWomen said:


> I have read a great number of posts here and on other marriage and psychology sites about why people are unfaithful. Men do it for different reasons than women, it's not really cheating if, should I take him/ her back etc.
> 
> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.
> 
> ...


What those women said is nonsense. Its just yet another excuse to cheat, lie and deceive. Cheaters will always try to excuse what they did and its sometimes quite amazing what they will come up with. 

If a man said that to me and was serious, I would know I was with the wrong man. Adultery for me is definitely a step too far, like for you. It destroys the trust and intimacy and the marriage covenant. Things would never be the same, ever, no mater what people say.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

I am going to add one thing....

While there are no *excuses* for cheating, there are *reasons* people cheat. 

Now, if infidelity means the end of the relationship, case closed, no discussion or thought of reconciliation, then you can never address the reasons part (and if you are positive you will never run into this again in any future relationships). 

But... if reconciliation is at all the goal, then the reasons must be explored. Its not about placing blame on the betrayed at all, but BOTH parties need to recognize the short comings in the relationship in addition to the individual. 

Sure, perfect people do not cheat, but I will go out on a limb and say most people wouldn't cheat in perfect relationships. 

When my husband cheated, part of the processes was not only understanding his own short comings, but understanding the relationship's short comings. 

The same was true for my bad behavior. That processes, REALLY working on ourselves and the relationship strengthened it, and made it something better than it was before.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

ILoveWomen said:


> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.


I don't think it's too much if a stretch to say that 95% of couples would say they would divorce if they caught a partner cheating especially early in a marriage. The problem is that's it's all conjecture and what ifs at that point. Year 2 it's a dealbreaker, year 10 you've got 3 kids, mortgage payments, year 15 or 20 you've got alimony, losing half of everything and it becomes very complicated. 

There's nothing like that first meeting with a lawyer when you want in wanting divorce because of cheating and walk out realizing how much it's going to cost you and how much your life will be altered by it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I shouldnthave said:


> I am going to add one thing....
> 
> While there are no *excuses* for cheating, there are *reasons* people cheat.


You're new around here, aren't you? Saying that in an open forum...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> You're new around here, aren't you? Saying that in an open forum...


 I know, every cheater is a hell beast sent straight from the pits of agony by satan himself. And every betrayed spouse is a saint worthy of worship. 

The thing is, I have sat on both sides of the table, and this "clarity" came to me well before my own indiscretions. 

I used to post on another forum, and when I first joined, and was frank, and direct regarding my experiences, I was "warned" then too - but the thing is, I am a big girl, I wear big girl pants and everything. I can take it. Other people's projections do not particularly bother me, and often its simply that they do not want to hear the hard stuff. 

Cheating is 110% of the cheaters fault, I get that - but I also understood my role in weakening my relationship and making it susceptible for cheating. 

Maybe every other betrayed is truly perfect - except when it comes to their ability to judge character (thats why they married a hell beast). 

For me, introspection and empathy proved more effective than hate and rage when it came to solving problems.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ILoveWomen said:


> I have read a great number of posts here and on other marriage and psychology sites about why people are unfaithful. Men do it for different reasons than women, it's not really cheating if, should I take him/ her back etc.
> 
> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful.
> 
> ...


*It's not really that it was her choice to physically put some other man's "Willie" in her, or by him placing his appendage within some woman other than his wife; it's simply that by willingly doing so, it brings about the sheer disintegration of the loving trust built up within the relationship! 

Can it ever be recovered?*


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

I think most times it is a crime of opportunity. Adultery was a crime in the past, maybe it still is on the books but no longer enforced in some places in the U.S. Different countries have different laws. I think it is universally considered to be wrong. I know of no culture or country that consider adultery is a postive good. So it is wrong-doing and it is akin to a crime. Maybe like driving over the speed limit. You can come up with your own comparisons.

Look at wrong-doers. The bank robber does not rob because he wants to go to a long jail sentence. The speeder does not speed because she wants traffic ticket. Almost always, they don't think too much about it, because they never plan to get caught. If I leave my wallet full of cash and walk away, and you take it, it still is stealing. But some will do it. They weren't planning to steal, but had the opportunity. Once caught up in it, the thrill, the flowing feel-good brain chemicals, it becomes addictive, maybe like not being able to walk away from chocolate, alcohol, opiates.

If you look at wrong-doing, there are ranges of behavior, and there are specific lines to cross. Some wrongdoers set out to do it, meaning they plan it and then work their plan. That's most likely like the "bank robbers." Mostly what I see here, I think, is mainly wrongdoers who I would consider "criminals of opportunity." A willing partner smiled and the other returned the smile and then they talked a bit and did their courting dance and in a month or so they are "in love." They want to "cheat," meaning to break the rules. Getting a divorce and having a new monogamous relationship is in the rules. They want to break the rules - they want both the loyal spouse and the new shiny affair partner. One is for stability and comfort, the other is for excitment and thrills.

Of course this is simplistic but I believe that is the most prevalent of cheating I see here.

As someone else said, I do believe many affairs are never found out. I am much less sure, however, that many cheaters never get caught. If a cheater does not get caught, cheating becomes addictive. Bank robbers generally don't stop if they get away with it. Speeders don't stop speeding if they never get a ticket. Once they get away with it, I believe most people will continue, and it will be easier for them to rationalize it each time. I think there are those who are exceptions to the general rule. But that's what I think is the general rule.

I could be wrong.


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## PaulB (Jun 26, 2018)

The point of cheating is to not get caught.
To have your cake and eat it to.
Selfish rationalization leads cheaters to somehow feel justified in the cheating. The same rules of morality and of consequences are side stepped for them.

Same mentality as those *******s who now stroll into the grocery store or restaurant with their pet dog...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You bring up a number of different issues here. I'll address a few in bold below



ILoveWomen said:


> I'm old school on this I suppose but don't couples discuss the issue of infidelity early on? By discuss I mean what would happen to the relationship should a partner be unfaithful. I have been married a long time and my wife knows you cheat, I leave. That is the beginning and the end of it. If I were unfaithful, I would expect the same from her.
> 
> *This is kind of like when tough guys talk about what they would do if they were in a bar fight. It all sounds fine and dandy until you get punched in the face. The most worthless phrase in the English language is, "well if it were me I would...…."
> 
> ...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ILoveWomen said:


> Once a partner is unfaithful, it means they no longer want to be in a relationship with the other.
> Is it just a way to end a bad relationship?
> 
> 
> .


I do not believe this is true very often at all. 

I think at the end of the day, most people do what they want and do not do what they don't want.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ILoveWomen said:


> Once a partner is unfaithful, it means they no longer want to be in a relationship with the other. I does not matter the reason, people can rationalize anything. It is never what you think that matters it is what you do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do not believe this is the case very often at all.

I think at the end of the day, most people do what they want and do not do what they don't want. 

If they wanted to leave - they would. They wouldn't need an affair to do it. 

Conversely, I think people cheat and remain in the marriage because they want to. They want both. they want to remain in the marriage for the benefits the marriage brings. And they want the extra fun and excitement of a an affair. They want cake and to eat it too. 

Cheating is usually an act of selfishness, not an act of exiting a bad relationship or of even experiencing a bad relationship. Many of the marriages were fine until the affair occurred.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ILoveWomen said:


> I read this in an article about why women cheat.
> 
> "I'm nicer to my husband when I have something special going on that's just for me." She found that she was kinder, more patient, less resentful, "less of a *****."
> It occurred to me as I listened that these women were describing infidelity not as a transgression but a creative or even subversive act, a protest against an institution they'd come to experience as suffocating or oppressive."
> ...



This is cheater logic. I think many of them believe this. 

Since they are having fun and getting their jollies on the side, they believe they are more apt to remain in the marriage. They feel if they weren't able to get it on the side, that they would be more likely to leave the marriage. 

They are compartmentalizing. They are getting the stability and resources of a marriage; and the fun and excitement of an affair. 

In their cheater logic, if they couldn't get the fun of an affair, they would be more likely to just leave. 

So they twist it around to make it sound like they are doing the BS a favor by getting some on the side and staying in the marriage. 

The sad irony is there probably is some truth to it. 

Are you an original Star Trek fan? There is an original episode where Kirk and Spok and the gang to this very clean and orderly planet that has been having a computer war with another planet for 500 years. The two warring planets do not even remember what they were fighting about. 

When one side would launch a computer attack, the other planet would assign a number of people to report to a disintegration chamber so their deaths could be logged. It became so clean and tidy that it became acceptable and the war went on for 500 years. 

So Captain Kirk blew up the computer so that if they were gonna fight a war, they would have to do it it with real guns and bombs and real destruction. When faced with that reality, both planets backed down and decided to come to the negotiating table for peace talks. 

I think a lot of affairs do the same thing. They make an unsatisfying situation more tolerable and acceptable (to the WS) and so they stay and make nice with the BS and life goes on for everyone. 

The WS justifies it to themselves and makes the affair out to be the lesser of two evils and says if it weren't for the affair, they would have left or would have been so miserable as to have made the BS miserable too.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I shouldnthave said:


> Cheating is 110% of the cheaters fault, I get that - but I also understood my role in weakening my relationship and making it susceptible for cheating.


That can be a very fine line between discussing how a person was imperfect in the relationship vs blaming them for the other person's cheating. Unfortunately, many times the MC or the marriage book don't make the distinction. The newly betrayed sometimes naturally goes in this direction, too, thinking if they become a better spouse then the cheater will change their ways.

I think in most cases it is a nuance best left for after the betrayal itself has been processed and the cheater is doing whatever counseling is needed to understand how/why they let themselves become a betrayer.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> I am going to add one thing....
> 
> While there are no *excuses* for cheating, there are *reasons* people cheat.
> 
> ...


There are people who will cheat even if they have a good marriage and spouse. The husband of a lovely friend of mine said, 'the opportunity came up and I took it'. Got another women pregnant, devastated his wife and small children, ended up with no marriage, no affair partner, and 3 children by 2 different women. 

In the end its about doing the right thing, having morals, integrity and putting your spouse and children first. 

For me it could never be better than before. The trust is shattered, the intimacy gone, and something very special and vitally important has been lost forever.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think a lot of cheaters find it to be a turn on to put one over on their spouse. Half the fun of it is to secretly do something hostile.

I know that was what motivated my ex-wife to a large degree.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My husband did not want a divorce and fought it when I finally said I was done. What he wanted was to continue having affairs but stay married -- despite the fact that I told him from the beginning that infidelity was a deal breaker. It's on me that I didn't divorce him after the first affair. I thought he meant it when he promised that would never happen again. I was wrong.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

In the opening post, I felt like you were really asking about these and a little angry at the improper use of them. 





> *Characteristics of Reason and Excuse:
> 
> *
> *Nature:*
> ...





> Definition of *justify
> justified; justifying *
> 
> transitive verb
> ...


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I think a lot of affairs do the same thing. *They make an unsatisfying situation more tolerable and acceptable (to the WS) and so they stay and make nice with the BS and life goes on for everyone. *
> 
> The WS justifies it to themselves and makes the affair out to be the lesser of two evils and says if it weren't for the affair, they would have left or would have been so miserable as to have made the BS miserable too.


This has been predominant example of infidelity I've observed with the WWs I know. They rationalized their affairs as the least destructive method to make an intolerable situation more tolerable. Divorce has a 100% chance of destroying a marriage; infidelity has only about a 30% chance if one assumes that the only way to destroy a marriage is to get caught. 

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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> This has been predominant example of infidelity I've observed with the WWs I know. They rationalized their affairs as the least destructive method to make an intolerable situation more tolerable. Divorce has a 100% chance of destroying a marriage; infidelity has only about a 30% chance if one assumes that the only way to destroy a marriage is to get caught.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I think the WHs do it too. 

They figure if they get some poon on the side and get their tank drained, then life will be good for all.... assuming they don't get caught.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I think the WHs do it too.
> 
> They figure if they get some poon on the side and get their tank drained, then life will be good for all.... assuming they don't get caught.


I agree. It's a risk/reward, outcome/consequence thing for most. I get it. 

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