# Dual (duel?) counterdependency



## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

After a few months of counseling I think I'm forced to conclude that I exhibit a lot of counter-dependent behaviors, like being a workaholic, being very critical of others, etc.. FWIW I have some co-dependent behaviors, too, like compulsive apologizing, and seeking physical affection as comfort. I think my wife exhibits counter-dependent behavior, but I can't tell. All in all, I feel like she's the healthy one and I'm the one with the problem.

My wife and I got into a one-sided fight this morning. She asked me what I felt about something, and I explained to her, and realizing that it was the type of question that I might have responded to with an angry and mean-spirited answer, I tried to state things as calmly as possible, without personalizing the issue, etc. I remembered that our therapist had said we need to be careful with the tone with which we speak to each other.

Anyway, she blew up at me for disagreeing with her. This wasn't passive-aggression, I was honest and fair and tried to explain my reasons (all before she blew up). I've done the same, before, though.

This thing I struggle with right now is that I'm trying to take responsibility for myself, and to recognize my own narcissistic behavior and I've tried being open with my wife about this and things in general, etc. The way she treated me was totally wrong--essentially, the lesson I got was that disagreements, no matter how level-headed, are going to lead to her telling me she wants a divorce.

The problem is that I can't feel like I can trust myself at all. I want to say that my wife's thick-headedness on some things is utterly pathological. It's impossible for me to believe that I can be the only one with a problem here. My wife's MO is pretty much "I'm doing X whether you come along or not and regardless of whether you agree with it", she pretends she doesn't have feelings--but that's exactly what I'd think if I had textbook narcissistic issues. It's one thing to be independent, it's another thing to do WTF you want in a marriage whenever you want regardless of your partner. It was hard for me to convince her to go to counseling together. But me asking for or demanding an occasional compromise is exactly what I'd do if I was a narcissist, and for all I know that's her "setting boundaries". She always asks me what I talk to my therapist about (which is not a problem, because I admit all of it to her) but it's never occurred to me to ask her what she talks to her therapist about. Those are exactly the behaviors I'd expect from her if I was the cause of her problems, too; this is exactly the type of crap I'd do and think if I had a need for disapproval.

So I'm really goddamn confused. I know I can't really trust myself, but I can't help but feel that my wife won't admit she has any problems at all and that makes things a lot worse, and at the moment I'm simply too exhausted emotionally for finally having to own and manage (poorly, apparently) my own problems and old hurts to feel like I can gather up enough inner strength for a divorce, which is what my wife really seems to want.

Anyway, I'm embarrassed to admit to talk about this to my friends or co-workers, and I'm sure as **** not going to ask my folks for support.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

I found this on a website that looks like it staggered out of the primordial ooze of Geocities and its seems to be what I want to say:



> Often, someone who is primarily counterdependent will get involved with someone who is even more counterdependent and then will act out the codependent role in that particular relationship - the same can happen with two people with primarily codependent patterns.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your doing alot of labeling. You label yourself as a workaholic, narcissist, codepenedent. Now you are looking for her label.

This all seems like too much therapy and not enough actions to me.

Your wife needs to feel your love and strength. Running around to therapy and labeling yourself is not that.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Your doing alot of labeling. You label yourself as a workaholic, narcissist, codepenedent. Now you are looking for her label.
> 
> This all seems like too much therapy and not enough actions to me.
> 
> Your wife needs to feel your love and strength. Running around to therapy and labeling yourself is not that.


I can see that--I've been trying to monitor my behavior really closely. But what I feel like is that the damn goalposts keep moving. I can spend all day at work, do a couple hours of research, come home, be friendly, take my wife out somewhere and be fun, or be emotionally supportive or encouraging or whatever, and it's not enough.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

less_disgruntled said:


> I can see that--I've been trying to monitor my behavior really closely. But what I feel like is that the damn goalposts keep moving. I can spend all day at work, do a couple hours of research, come home, be friendly, take my wife out somewhere and be fun, or be emotionally supportive or encouraging or whatever, and it's not enough.


I know how you feel. I feel like the goal post is always moving and changing - not matter what I do, it's not recognized or he just doesn't "see" it or want to see it.

I find myself apologizing for things I didn't even do just to keep the peace myself.

Something I am working on and will probably always be working on. I think I'm so ingrained in the co-dependent role that I'm having a hard time digging out - especially because he seems to like me there sometimes (or so it seems).


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have to do what she wants you do to, not what you want to do or what you think she should want you to do.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> You have to do what she wants you do to, not what you want to do or what you think she should want you to do.


I think you're right here, too, and I think that's the problem--I hate to say this (see re: counterdependency) but I earnestly think she doesn't want to be married to anyone who doesn't want to do *everything* she wants to do, too.

Maybe we just are too different and she's not willing to accept that.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

She doesn't want you do "do everything" she says.
She wants you to meet her emotional needs.
She also wants you to defend your boundaries when she has an unreasonable request.
If you are a workaholic (self described) it's not possible to meet a wife's emotional needs. Until you can meet her needs, you cannot really judge her as a partner, because most of her behavior to you is aimed at getting you to meet her needs.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> She doesn't want you do "do everything" she says.
> She wants you to meet her emotional needs.
> She also wants you to defend your boundaries when she has an unreasonable request.
> If you are a workaholic (self described) it's not possible to meet a wife's emotional needs. Until you can meet her needs,* you cannot really judge her as a partner, because most of her behavior to you is aimed at getting you to meet her needs*.



Thanks for that perspective. If you asked me I would say that a lot of our fights are about boundaries, but I'm not seeing clearly how much she's trying to push against my boundaries and how much she wants her needs met. I kind of think she does both at the same time in a headstrong way, which makes all this complicated, but I realize now I haven't really been there the way I should or set or defended my boundaries in an adult way.

This sh-t is hard to do, I'll tell anyone that for free.


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