# Why women have no respect for emotional, wimpish men



## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
Nice guys don't confront and don't take risks, the list goes on forever.
On the other hand women will always have more respect for the strong, dominant men that are charismatic and charming. Women don't like meek men, that in itself reveals a lot about female nature and female attraction.
This can be analysed as natural behavior that dates back to the caveman times when the strongest most dominant males got first pick of the most attractive, fertile women.
Stereo-typically women are attracted to men who are of strong character, civilised but don`t place their female partners on high pedestals and for these types of men there is a higher chance of their female partners remaining loyal.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

If you want to know what women think and why they make the choices they make you should probably start by asking them and listening to their replies.

Nice doesn't equal weak. Nice means you have empathy for other people, that is a strength and very important in leaders.

However people with no boundaries that have low self esteem and cannot stand up for themselves is weakness often mistaken for niceness. This is not exclusive to men. 

You are trying to put male thoughts into a female head. You will never understand how a woman thinks and feels by listening to men who have never had a female experience.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

gameopoly5 said:


> This can be analysed as natural behavior that dates back to the caveman times


I am suspicious of the "caveman" explanation, but I agree with the main thesis ("Women don't like meek men").


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DaringGreatly said:


> If you want to know what women think and why they make the choices they make you should probably start by asking them and listening to their replies.
> 
> Nice doesn't equal weak. Nice means you have empathy for other people, that is a strength and very important in leaders.
> 
> ...


👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I know many nice, decent men. However they are not meek or weak.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

The word ‘meek’ is being misdefined.

Meekness is strength under control (positive control, such as discipline and restraint), whereas weakness is a lack of strength.

In general, people steeped in shame and guilt are fearful, which leads to seeking various forms of comfort (addiction, for example) and control (negative control - manipulation).

So, to me, it would be most helpful, especially for the younger generations, to emphasize what it means to be a person of character - man or woman. 

What is integrity? How do we get it?

We’re only capable of living out our beliefs.

Whether we like it or not, we are an example to every single person we come in contact with, and that truth is much more real and powerful than sending folks off to a therapist for superficial behavior modification.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't agree with this. Many women like nice men. It doesn't mean they are weak. I find this one of the biggest BS being constantly advertised on TAM.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I don't agree with this. Many women like nice men. It doesn't mean they are weak. I find this one of the biggest BS being constantly advertised on TAM.


I think women appreciate genuine kindness.

Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


Uh, ok... never come across that myself...


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Uh, ok... never come across that myself...


Really? I read it on here all the time.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Really? I read it on here all the time.


Ah, I thought you meant in real life.... here, yes, a few...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr D is a very laid back easy going man. He has good self esteem but doesn't like conflict, I mean who does. 
He is nice and has very strong moral values and integrity. He has good self control but definitely isn't domineering and I would hate it if he was. 
So where does he fall in this nice man/humble/domineering stuff? I have no idea, but most men probably fall somewhere between the two.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Yeah. There's a HUGE difference between a genuinely nice guy and a soft, weak, desperate, needy wimp who will literally do anything to keep a woman.

Sadly, most of the guys who come here to cry about their wives no longer wanting them are just SO desperate to hold onto her any way they possibly can that they continually swallow their pride, their dignity, and their self-respect just to do it. That's not a "nice" guy - that's a "weak" guy. I personally find this type of man so utterly unattractive. There are women who love this type of weaker man who is really, REALLY in touch with his 'feminine' side, but I'm definitely not one of them. 

I'll take an alpha male every single time. 🥰🥰


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There are women who love this type of weaker man who is really, REALLY in touch with his 'feminine' side, but I'm definitely not one of them.


This is what media is now selling as "masculinity" so it is not suprising that their are a great number of women who like it. You can see weak men everywhere you go.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> This is what media is now selling as "masculinity" so it is not suprising that their are a great number of women who like it. You can see weak men everywhere you go.


I’m offended by your toxic masculinity.

🤣


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m offended by your toxic masculinity.
> 
> 🤣


"Chuckles in toxic masculinity"


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

I do wonder about the wild, screaming, leftist women, those bashing white males and toxic masculinity. Today’s “feminist”. Do they also have an underlying, hidden desire for a strong man (as opposed to the aforementioned simps).

I wonder. I suspect the screaming is all show for attention.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I loathe arrogant, vain, sexist men. Men who strut around, smartest in the room, all tatted up with naked chick wheel flaps (aka cavemen mentality) are outdated dinosaurs.
Men can have confidence without acting like red pill assholes promoted here.

Men who are afraid to emphasize and have zero humility are not attractive. Stop speaking as if there are absolutes.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

If a simp is a man who’ll stop at the store, unload the dishwasher, listen to my problems and admit fault when deserved I’ll take that over a man who puffs out his chest, threatens, sits at strip joints, etc,

My husband’s in shape, executive and somehow not the sexist alpha cad you seem to think women are dreaming about.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> If a simp is a man who’ll stop at the store, unload the dishwasher, listen to my problems and admit fault when deserved I’ll take that over a man who puffs out his chest, threatens, sits at strip joints, etc,
> 
> My husband’s in shape, executive and somehow not the sexist alpha cad you seem to think women are dreaming about.


When we speak in "extreme" terms the trouble begins.

I loath the leftist, screaming women who have oddly enough killed female sports. On the other hand, men who are really into sports and go to strip bars aren't men I find interesting. 

It's hard to find that perfect combination. But when you do it's great!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

snowbum said:


> If a simp is a man who’ll stop at the store, unload the dishwasher, listen to my problems and admit fault when deserved I’ll take that over a man who puffs out his chest, threatens, sits at strip joints, etc,
> 
> My husband’s in shape, executive and somehow not the sexist alpha cad you seem to think women are dreaming about.


So you want a manservant/therapist??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In Absentia said:


> I don't agree with this. Many women like nice men. It doesn't mean they are weak. I find this one of the biggest BS being constantly advertised on TAM.


Isn't it like advertised everywhere? TAM is way tamer and more normal lol

On YouTube there's tons of this content, I find the new Sigma stuff the best 😅 😆


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> So you want a manservant/therapist??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣


No. I want a partner. I want someone who shared life. We both work. I go in at 6 am. Still make breakfast and dinner.but it is very appreciated when my husband helps out


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> I am suspicious of the "caveman" explanation, but I agree with the main thesis ("Women don't like meek men").


Yet.....yet.

The Meek shall inherit the Earth. 

In the end, womenfolk shall copulate with the docile.
That *Milquetoast* shall dip its bread in those warm and sweet crevices.

What choice have they, these women?
The strong men will have consumed themselves.


...............................................................................................................

Note:

Great Wars kill off, mostly the strong, leaving the weaker genes to carry, to further the race.
The* Green* New Deal, thus, be* left* walking the Earth.

_Are Dee-_

Huh?
What?

Smile!

..........................................................................................................

Note 2:

I did that genetic testing, I am 3.5% Neanderthal, that Martian residue.
Cavemen do rule!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Yet.....yet.
> 
> The Meek shall inherit the Earth.
> 
> ...


Can't really blame the women when you think about it. The majority of Western men are weak because they have been socially shaped to be more feminized, taught that any masculine traits are toxic and have been emasculated by constant bombardment about how "evil" they are because they are male. So it just makes sense that the new, socially constructed man is very attractive to Western women.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

My dad was probably alpha. Did what ever he wanted when he wanted. Occasionally hit my mom and screwed around. Used porn. Not attractive in the least.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.


I think this is wholely unfair to the men who've been cheated on and come here for support. Infidelity is a hard pill to swallow. It is a mind ****. Most are in shock. 

Expecting someone whose entire life has been blown apart to address the problem like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry is unrealistic. 





gameopoly5 said:


> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> Nice guys don't confront and don't take risks, the list goes on forever.
> On the other hand women will always have more respect for the strong, dominant men that are charismatic and charming. Women don't like meek men, that in itself reveals a lot about female nature and female attraction.
> ...


Well then count me in for absolutely hating confrontational, risky men. I can't stand it. 

I prefer calm, humble, intelligent men with strong boundaries, who communicate effectively, are supportive, and make me a priority. If that's the description of a simp, then sign me up as a simp groupie.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Expecting someone whose entire life has been blown apart to address the problem like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry is unrealistic


I did! 😀


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Lila said:


> I think this is wholely unfair to the men who've been cheated on and come here for support. Infidelity is a hard pill to swallow. It is a mind ****. Most are in shock.
> 
> Expecting someone whose entire life has been blown apart to address the problem like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry is unrealistic.
> 
> ...


 Amen. Men who expect women to put up with their crap because he says so are gross. Dude. Who want women to wait on them, put up with hitting on other women. And know their place are not charming,


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> I did! 😀


You're an anomaly not the norm. 

Most people are freaked out of their minds and go into a tailspin. They have no idea how they got there and start questioning everything. They can't think straight, go into the steps of grieving (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Guilt is also considered a step in some circles). 

Once they've had time to digest everything, and they accept things for what they are, they start to act on it. That's normal behavior in my opinion.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Isn't it like advertised everywhere? TAM is way tamer and more normal lol
> 
> On YouTube there's tons of this content, I find the new Sigma stuff the best 😅 😆
> 
> View attachment 95365


Good God, Mon!

Jeez!

I suspect, with the Aussie Society, now being held captive; are 'you' one of the few Sigma males on the Sahul continent?
The rest behave (appear) as obedient sheep. 

Then again, maybe this is just that false bravado on your part?

Sadly, our California is also a lost continent (figuratively).
It_ seems_, it has been taken over by debauched aliens from Neptune.
Aye, it bleeds from those ruptured _seams_.




_Are Dee-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> I think this is wholely unfair to the men who've been cheated on and come here for support. Infidelity is a hard pill to swallow. It is a mind ****. Most are in shock.
> 
> Expecting someone whose entire life has been blown apart to address the problem like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry is unrealistic.
> 
> ...


Nice!

A very feminine response!



Gwendolyn-


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Nice!
> 
> A very feminine response!
> 
> ...


I'm not sure whether this is a genuine compliment. I can't keep track of your alter egos personalities 😂


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Isn't it like advertised everywhere? TAM is way tamer and more normal lol


It's still advertised...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> Good God, Mon!
> 
> Jeez!
> 
> ...


I used to be both the Alpha and the Omega, but now they removed my divinity for this:










😆

But if I am Sigma, I'm too Sigma to be Sigma... there is even a ytube channel called Sigma Alliance 🤣 fk me dead mate lol aren't we supposed to be non conforming loners? Hahahahahah


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I used to be both the Alpha and the Omega, but now they removed my divinity for this:
> 
> View attachment 95372
> 
> ...


I would call myself a sigma, but I'm not a loner...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In Absentia said:


> I would call myself a sigma, but I'm not a loner...


I am always a loner even surrounded completely by friends and family. If I am, I'm a ticking time bomb 💣 but I've learnt to mute the ticker so no one knows I want them all to go home ASAP 😊

Honestly I identify more with MBTI and INTJ if anything lol I'm just enjoying the laughs 😅


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> You're an anomaly not the norm.
> 
> Most people are freaked out of their minds and go into a tailspin. They have no idea how they got there and start questioning everything. They can't think straight, go into the steps of grieving (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Guilt is also considered a step in some circles).
> 
> Once they've had time to digest everything, and they accept things for what they are, they start to act on it. That's normal behavior in my opinion.


I think it was the way I was raised had an effect on how I reacted


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> I'm not sure whether this is a genuine compliment. I can't keep track of your alter egos personalities 😂


Very genuine, as fact.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> I used to be both the Alpha and the Omega, but now they removed my divinity for this:
> 
> View attachment 95372
> 
> ...


I am 95% Sigma, by my count.

Not a loner by choice, by my Fate.
Odd being uncommon, is looked at, askance.

Luckily, I can wear another face when in public.
A _"Man for all Seasons"._
And some others (as you know), I can render.

I do conform to reasonableness.



_Are Dee- _The dominant personality in the mix.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> I am 95% Sigma, by my count.
> 
> Not a loner by choice, by my Fate.
> Odd being uncommon, is looked at, askance.
> ...


I thought you were 100% Martian?


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

minimalME said:


> Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


In my experience, I find this to be true. If someone has to do his or her own advertising as to what kind of person s/he believes s/he is…it IS a facade. People who ARE nice are already KNOWN to be nice BY OTHERS. They do NOT need to do any self-promotion.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

The opposite of being a pathetic, weak and wimpish non-alpha man isn’t being an a-hole. Geesh. I know plenty of manly men who happily changed diapers, do laundry and dishes and vacuum and are nice and decent guys who treat people well. I agree that most women still prefer a manly man. That doesn’t mean he’s a jerk. And of course some women don’t.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

minimalME said:


> So, to me, it would be most helpful, especially for the younger generations, to emphasize what it means to be a person of character - man or woman.
> 
> What is integrity? How do we get it?
> 
> We’re only capable of living out our beliefs.


There used to be a process for it, not sure how popular it is today and/or how corrupted it is but as a kid in scouts you learn:

_On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight._

In particular with the smaller kids (Cub Scouts) “do your best”. If you follow this in your life as a man and you always do your best and respect that you have a duty to others, you’re not going to be a loser.

You can fail in business or other things but you’ll never be a loser.

Another key developmental thing from my father is the idea of “politeness with strength”. Well mannered and able to have nice interactions with people but also strong so you‘re able to respond to whatever happens.

I think it’s really important to have good male role models as a boy.

I was at the park working out on Friday and there was a kid working on his pitching with his dad watching and a pitching coach. I was doing calisthenics on the field but I could hear the pitching coach. 

The kid asked a question about umpires and the coach’s answer was, “You can’t control the umpire, but you can control where your pitch goes. Put the pitch where you want it and you did your job.”

Same kind of idea.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Teacherwifemom said:


> The opposite of being a pathetic, weak and wimpish non-alpha man isn’t being an a-hole. Geesh. I know plenty of manly men who happily changed diapers, do laundry and dishes and vacuum and are nice and decent guys who treat people well. I agree that most women still prefer a manly man. That doesn’t mean he’s a jerk. And of course some women don’t.


They don't understand this. They have bought into the "toxic masculinity" BS


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

The sigma description is interesting. What is a “silent leader”?

A leader gets other people to follow a plan. I have found limited success in only “leading by example”. Sometimes it works, but with less talented or invested people it typically falls flat and you need to be very “not silent” in order to get results.

Getting a large number of people to do something together and all pull in the same direction is difficult and out of the folks I have seen do this, “silent” isn’t a word I’d ever use to describe them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

heather42 said:


> I thought you were 100% Martian?
> 
> View attachment 95375


Tut tut!

Only _SunCMars_, and his Martian allies can make that 100% claim.

I am, _Are Dee_, a construct of _THRD_, (making me an @EleGirl defined, sock puppet).

All the _HeadMates_, except for *The Red Queen*, and _King Brian_ are his (known) creations.

I suspect I am at the 85 percentile Martian threshold.
The rest is *confidential. 

*a bit of rational kindness found in that hide


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ccpowerslave said:


> The sigma description is interesting. What is a “silent leader”?
> 
> A leader gets other people to follow a plan. I have found limited success in only “leading by example”. Sometimes it works, but with less talented or invested people it typically falls flat and you need to be very “not silent” in order to get results.
> 
> Getting a large number of people to do something together and all pull in the same direction is difficult and out of the folks I have seen do this, “silent” isn’t a word I’d ever use to describe them.


Am I a silent leader?

My management style is laissez faire and I prefer to have others in the front lines with the appearance of power, of which I still maintain in its absolute. With benevolence of course, as I prefer... loyal and capable minions 😊


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Teacherwifemom said:


> The opposite of being a pathetic, weak and wimpish non-alpha man isn’t being an a-hole. Geesh. I know plenty of manly men who happily changed diapers, do laundry and dishes and vacuum and are nice and decent guys who treat people well. I agree that most women still prefer a manly man. That doesn’t mean he’s a jerk. And of course some women don’t.


I'm a romantic too so it also makes me a Gamma hahahahah yet I'm accused of being insensitive sometimes too so what the heck? Back to Sigma? 

Meh... I am my own man and just don't give a F 😅 just never really been a total jerk as I never had to be 😋 if anything I reckon folks should focus on learning how to be a better partner or father for those they love

That includes not being a wuss either, same with kids, my daughter would have been a spoiled princess and not enrolled in a selective school if I failed to be a man and discipline his child


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


Well we know you're not weak, any man that would write that must have steel balls.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yeah. There's a HUGE difference between a genuinely nice guy and a soft, weak, desperate, needy wimp who will literally do anything to keep a woman.
> 
> Sadly, most of the guys who come here to cry about their wives no longer wanting them are just SO desperate to hold onto her any way they possibly can that they continually swallow their pride, their dignity, and their self-respect just to do it. That's not a "nice" guy - that's a "weak" guy. I personally find this type of man so utterly unattractive. There are women who love this type of weaker man who is really, REALLY in touch with his 'feminine' side, but I'm definitely not one of them.
> 
> I'll take an alpha male every single time. 🥰🥰


That's because their mentality is different than someone with a more abundant personality. They think they have this super prize, never to be matched again, so if their wife left, they'll never have another girl. Others know if their wife were to cheat, there would be a line around the corner to jump in her shoes. Not that I wouldn't be very sad and depressed if my wife left, just that I would have to say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out". On the same token, I'm not going to mess up what I have by acting like an ass.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Am I a silent leader?
> 
> My management style is laissez faire and I prefer to have others in the front lines with the appearance of power, of which I still maintain in its absolute. With benevolence of course, as I prefer... loyal and capable minions 😊


A bad leader, delegates and says crap like, “I prefer to empower my people” and watches as the product, business, operation, or whatever goes down the toilet and then when people ask what happened they say, well I delegated it to A, B, and C and they messed it up.

It’s good for personal investment to decentralize control as you’re doing as long as you don’t give up ownership.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


I don't disagree with you, but have you ever wondered where that pain came from? From what I have seen, it often comes from being the "nice guy" because ladies said they liked it, just to watch those ladies end up with someone who wasn't nice. Hell, I've caught myself feeling that way before in the past.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I do wonder about the wild, screaming, leftist women, those bashing white males and toxic masculinity. Today’s “feminist”. Do they also have an underlying, hidden desire for a strong man (as opposed to the aforementioned simps).
> 
> I wonder. I suspect the screaming is all show for attention.


They do. Before I got married, I had 2 hardcore socialist/feminist women try HARD to get with me, despite our obvious political differences. I'm a known gun-toting, Republican gym bro. They talk smack but for the most part, women like men, and men like women.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't disagree with you, but have you ever wondered where that pain came from? From what I have seen, it often comes from being the "nice guy" because ladies said they liked it, just to watch those ladies end up with someone who wasn't nice. Hell, I've caught myself feeling that way before in the past.


You see it all the time when husbands are complaining about living in sexless marriages. To late they realized that their wife's didn't marry them because they were attracted to them but because they were "nice guys" who checked off every other box.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> You see it all the time when husbands are complaining about living in sexless marriages. To late they realized that their wife's didn't marry them because they were attracted to them but because they were "nice guys" who checked off every other box.


You know what bugs me, man? I learned when I was younger that if you want success with women, you can't be nice to them. You just can't. I was never a "nice guy" but I would treat a girl really well if I liked her. Sometime in my early 20's I realized that the girls I really liked, that I treated more respectfully, they always overlooked me for some other guy. The girls I was kinda mean to, I never could get rid of them.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> You know what bugs me, man? I learned when I was younger that if you want success with women, you can't be nice to them. You just can't. I was never a "nice guy" but I would treat a girl really well if I liked her. Sometime in my early 20's I realized that the girls I really liked, that I treated more respectfully, they always overlooked me for some other guy. The girls I was kinda mean to, I never could get rid of them.


Took my divorce before I understand that


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ccpowerslave said:


> A bad leader, delegates and says crap like, “I prefer to empower my people” and watches as the product, business, operation, or whatever goes down the toilet and then when people ask what happened they say, well I delegated it to A, B, and C and they messed it up.
> 
> It’s good for personal investment to decentralize control as you’re doing as long as you don’t give up ownership.


Responsibility lies with those with power yes, and I prefer to maintain it 😇

Autocratic micromanagement will simply not work with the talent I have procured, perhaps it's more an autocratic autonomy as I do have my hard limits.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't disagree with you, but have you ever wondered where that pain came from? From what I have seen, it often comes from being the "nice guy" because ladies said they liked it, just to watch those ladies end up with someone who wasn't nice. Hell, I've caught myself feeling that way before in the past.


The way Ive seen it over the years is that the truth of the matter is that women, like men, simply want it all, a lady as well as a freak in the sheets, a stud as well as a gentleman. All we can do is try to be the best we can be and hope it is enough to keep them happy.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't disagree with you, but have you ever wondered where that pain came from? From what I have seen, it often comes from being the "nice guy" because ladies said they liked it, just to watch those ladies end up with someone who wasn't nice. Hell, I've caught myself feeling that way before in the past.


To me, the women are secondary.

The fundamental problem is, ‘I’m not getting what I want.’

‘I _deserve_ xyz, and _you’re_ not giving it to me.’

‘I’m right, and you’re wrong.’

So, the pain is self-inflicted. The motivation is pure selfishness.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

minimalME said:


> To me, the women are secondary.
> 
> The fundamental problem is, ‘I’m not getting what I want.’
> 
> ...


I don't think it's about what someone feels they deserve. People just don't like being lied to. If you tell young men they should do A, B, and C to have luck with women, but it's all a lie, they're not gonna be happy about it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't think it's about what someone feels they deserve. People just don't like being lied to. If you tell young men they should do A, B, and C to have luck with women, but it's all a lie, they're not gonna be happy about it.


You’re still looking outside of yourself and blaming, and it’s still the attitude of, ‘I didn’t get what I deserve’, ‘I deserve better’, ‘I’m better’.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

minimalME said:


> You’re still looking outside of yourself and blaming, and it’s still the attitude of, ‘I didn’t get what I deserve’, ‘I deserve better’, ‘I’m better’.


Well, to be fair, in my case; I didn't get what I deserved, I did deserve better and I was better.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> Well, to be fair, in my case; I didn't get what I deserved, I did deserve better and I was better.


😔💕


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Enigma32 said:


> You know what bugs me, man? I learned when I was younger that if you want success with women, you can't be nice to them. You just can't. I was never a "nice guy" but I would treat a girl really well if I liked her. Sometime in my early 20's I realized that the girls I really liked, that I treated more respectfully, they always overlooked me for some other guy. The girls I was kinda mean to, I never could get rid of them.


I would run a mile from a guy who treated me badly.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't think it's about what someone feels they deserve. People just don't like being lied to. If you tell young men they should do A, B, and C to have luck with women, but it's all a lie, they're not gonna be happy about it.


You know the saying 😅










😆


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I would run a mile from a guy who treated me badly.


I think you are the exception, not the norm. In most of your views, I'd bet. I mean that as a compliment. On here at least, you come off as a very respectable lady.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

minimalME said:


> You’re still looking outside of yourself and blaming, and it’s still the attitude of, ‘I didn’t get what I deserve’, ‘I deserve better’, ‘I’m better’.


That is a game I have long since stepped away from. I'm just sharing my own perspective from when I was a young man, and what young men sometimes think and feel. I am no longer that guy.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> You know the saying 😅
> 
> View attachment 95391
> 
> ...


This is why I tell men not to listen to women when women talk about what they want in a man. A young man especially is better off observing what women do. See the kind of guy ladies go for and learn from that. I've always had a lot of female friends and they will share when they meet someone they're interested in. They almost never talk about how the guy is nice, it's usually about how good looking or charming he is. So instead of trying to be nice, a guy needs to get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

Enigma32 said:


> This is why I tell men not to listen to women when women talk about what they want in a man. A young man especially is better off observing what women do. See the kind of guy ladies go for and learn from that. I've always had a lot of female friends and they will share when they meet someone they're interested in. They almost never talk about how the guy is nice, it's usually about how good looking or charming he is. So instead of trying to be nice, a guy needs to get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better.


In the end people cannot help but be themselves. If a guy who is not so charming or good looking spends his precious time trying to be something he's not he's going to end up angry and frustrated.

Better to know and accept yourself and find someone who likes you as you are IMO.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

snowbum said:


> My dad was probably alpha. Did what ever he wanted when he wanted. Occasionally hit my mom and screwed around. Used porn. Not attractive in the least.


Yet your mom married him. And you’re half him. But I do get that those are terrible qualities.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I don't agree with this. Many women like nice men. It doesn't mean they are weak. I find this one of the biggest BS being constantly advertised on TAM.


I agree. I think it's being oversimplified. There are all levels of nice and assertive before you get to weak. One of the guys I loved for awhile, he was a hard worker and humble. He was nice (but later deceptive). Nice doesn't mean someone won't end up going off the rails. But I mean, most people who know him just think he's the nicest guy. He's certainly not aggressive. HIs second wife gave him a black eye and cheated on him. His reaction was just immediate divorce, done quietly. He didn't from then on think all women were evil or cheaters. His third marriage has lasted. He is what I would call a simple man, level headed, even keeled, but still human and fallible. 

My favorite aunt and uncle were married forever. I imagine some saw him as a simp because he helped with the housework in a time when most men didn't. He was always catering to her. She was always cheerful and happy and fun to be around. He had been in WWII. He was a rock. But he was gentle.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

heather42 said:


> In the end people cannot help but be themselves. If a guy who is not so charming or good looking spends his precious time trying to be something he's not he's going to end up angry and frustrated.
> 
> Better to know and accept yourself and find someone who likes you as you are IMO.


I'd tell him to make the most of what he has. You don't need to be the best looking or most charming guy, just do better. Get a decent haircut, hit the gym, and actually talk to ladies. Even if you are average looking or below, just doing those things will put you above many people who don't.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


I am definitely not a fan of the "red pill" theory of relationships.

I also believe that a man who "up until the moment he realized something horrific" loved his wife with all his heart will be hesitant to just "kick her to the curb." In fact, I would urge him to take some time to overcome the emotional shock so he can clearly think about what he wants to do. So many men, especially those with small children, desperately need the support of their wives based on the way that they have divided household responsibilities.

Do I feel that the stereotype male lead marriage being hypothesized is absolute? Nope. Is there a thread of truth to it? Well stereotypes come from somewhere, so yes. But the whole feminist movement has caused a huge shift in marriage dynamics along with more equality in the workplace. 

I really think in most of the cases we read about or know, it is more a case of anger, falling out of love, or loosing respect that leads to the issues so common on TAM, not the dominance of a husband.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I 


Woundidwife said:


> In my experience, find this to be true. If someone has to do his or her own advertising as to what kind of person s/he believes s/he is…it IS a facade. People who ARE nice are already KNOWN to be nice BY OTHERS. They do NOT need to do any self-promotion.


I totally agree. Very similar to how sone women say they’re “classy”…. Invariably, the ones that are don’t have to say they are.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> I think women appreciate genuine kindness.
> 
> Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


And entitled.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Uh, ok... never come across that myself...


Before this forum, I was on a forum that wasn't for married people and it was Incel Central. These guys were weak, bitter, and most of all entitled and angry they couldn't just have who they wanted. It was unbelievable.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Was wondering when the man-haters showed up. Wasn't disappointed!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> I'd tell him to make the most of what he has. You don't need to be the best looking or most charming guy, just do better. Get a decent haircut, hit the gym, and actually talk to ladies. Even if you are average looking or below, just doing those things will put you above many people who don't.


Agreed.

When I was in my teens I was extremely shy, I had all the pretty popular girls ask me out and my response was "errr, you're joking"  
They took it as if "omg as I would date you" where it was more like "omg as if you would date me" lol

It took a tomboy post-school to take the lead and get me to lose my virginity because of how retarded I was 🤦‍♂️
Later when I started working in commission-only sales having to meet my targets to pay my rent that's when I developed what can be considered, "game"


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> This is why I tell men not to listen to women when women talk about what they want in a man. A young man especially is better off observing what women do. See the kind of guy ladies go for and learn from that. I've always had a lot of female friends and they will share when they meet someone they're interested in. They almost never talk about how the guy is nice, it's usually about how good looking or charming he is. So instead of trying to be nice, a guy needs to get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better.


My dad was mean to women. He was an ahole. Women want a man that treats them with respect. Maybe you like shallow women. I don’t know but the bad boy Ashlee who is rude and cheats? Nope. Never into that. You sound like keep the little woman in her place . Treat her like crap so she knows who’s in charge. No thanks.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Was wondering when the man-haters showed up. Wasn't disappointed!!!


???? I adore my respectful Eagle Scout hot hysband.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't disagree with you, but have you ever wondered where that pain came from? From what I have seen, it often comes from being the "nice guy" because ladies said they liked it, just to watch those ladies end up with someone who wasn't nice. Hell, I've caught myself feeling that way before in the past.


Most of what I've seen just comes from entitlement and bitterness finding out real life doesn't give them a 7 to 10. I'd say the same thing about women with unrealistic expectations.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think most people could succeed in life and love if they would just do one thing: Be entertaining and fun to be around. A great personality is everything. Instead, you get people crying in their beer and bemoaning life is not giving them what they thought they had coming and not even making a real effort to be someone you'd want to spend time with.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Agreed.
> 
> When I was in my teens I was extremely shy, I had all the pretty popular girls ask me out and my response was "errr, you're joking"
> They took it as if "omg as I would date you" where it was more like "omg as if you would date me" lol
> ...


I had one of those moments when I was 18 and working my first real job. There was this really pretty Spanish girl that I was into and I was telling a female co-worker friend about it. I said I thought the Spanish girl was beautiful but I had 0 chances with her. My friend told me I was crazy and that a lot of the girls there were talking about me, including the Spanish girl. She was right. I never dated the Spanish girl but I did end up dating more than my share of ladies there. Sometimes you just need to put yourself out there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

snowbum said:


> My dad was mean to women. He was an ahole. Women want a man that treats them with respect. Maybe you like shallow women. I don’t know but the bad boy Ashlee who is rude and cheats? Nope. Never into that. You sound like keep the little woman in her place . Treat her like crap so she knows who’s in charge. No thanks.


He's not saying that. He's simply acknowledging the fact that a lot of what used to be preached to men like "be a nice guy" just doesn't work. He's not saying men should be assholes to their partners or cheat or anything nor do I believe he treats his wife in that way in any way.

He's simply advocating for young men to: "get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better."

Simple as that, and what's wrong with that? Lets face the facts, a fat dude with bum clothes and his hair all over the place being awkward with women just ain't going to compete with a well defined dude well groomed and confident with his speech. This is the SAME with men and hot women. It's just hormones.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> He's not saying that.* He's simply acknowledging the fact that a lot of what used to be preached to men like "be a nice guy" just doesn't work.* He's not saying men should be assholes to their partners or cheat or anything nor do I believe he treats his wife in that way in any way.
> 
> He's simply advocating for young men to: "get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better."
> 
> Simple as that, and what's wrong with that? Lets face the facts, a fat dude with bum clothes and his hair all over the place being awkward with women just ain't going to compete with a well defined dude well groomed and confident with his speech. This is the SAME with men and hot women. It's just hormones.


Exactly. And I bet most men have heard that crap from at least 1 woman who swore she wanted a nice guy but never actually dated one. That's why men become the "nice guy" who is bitter and jaded. Maybe they heard the other crappy advice people give, "be yourself." What if yourself sucks? You need to be the best version of yourself. Most of the generic advice given to young men is counter productive.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I had one of those moments when I was 18 and working my first real job. There was this really pretty Spanish girl that I was into and I was telling a female co-worker friend about it. I said I thought the Spanish girl was beautiful but I had 0 chances with her. My friend told me I was crazy and that a lot of the girls there were talking about me, including the Spanish girl. She was right. I never dated the Spanish girl but I did end up dating more than my share of ladies there. Sometimes you just need to put yourself out there.


Confidence is everything


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

A woman that finds a man she believes is handsome and has high social status or wealthy—— will put up with a lot of bs. 
a man that finds a woman he believes is out of his league beautiful that gives him the time of day, will put up with lots of crap too.

we aren’t so different.
My thoughts are that if a guy treats a woman too good, she gets complacent and starts walking on him and loses respect for him and it snowballs. He needs to be well rounded in his friendships and invested in other things and tries to keep a balanced relationship. Same for the woman.
I’m no expert at relationships, that’s just my current viewpoint. But I will say I’ve seen a loooooooooot of women have kids with men that everyone knew was either a cheater, drunk, doper, etc.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> He's not saying that. He's simply acknowledging the fact that a lot of what used to be preached to men like "be a nice guy" just doesn't work. He's not saying men should be assholes to their partners or cheat or anything nor do I believe he treats his wife in that way in any way.
> 
> He's simply advocating for young men to: "get in the gym, keep himself looking decent, and learn to talk to ladies better."
> 
> Simple as that, and what's wrong with that? Lets face the facts, a fat dude with bum clothes and his hair all over the place being awkward with women just ain't going to compete with a well defined dude well groomed and confident with his speech. This is the SAME with men and hot women. It's just hormones.


Another problem is a lot of people equate niceness with weakness and try to walk all over you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> Exactly. And I bet most men have heard that crap from at least 1 woman who swore she wanted a nice guy but never actually dated one. That's why men become the "nice guy" who is bitter and jaded. Maybe they heard the other crappy advice people give, "be yourself." What if yourself sucks? You need to be the best version of yourself. Most of the generic advice given to young men is counter productive.


You don't just wave a wand and magically become "the nice guy," though. You become the guy faking being "the nice guy."


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

_He's everything you want
He's everything you need
He's everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
He says all the right things
At exactly the right time
But he means nothing to you
And you don't know why _

Classic 😅


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

heather42 said:


> In the end people cannot help but be themselves. If a guy who is not so charming or good looking spends his precious time trying to be something he's not he's going to end up angry and frustrated.
> 
> Better to know and accept yourself and find someone who likes you as you are IMO.


Men do need to work at self improvement. I believe that was all he was saying.

A man doesn't have to try to become something he isn't.

He should work hard and discipline himself to be the best version of himself he can though. That includes physical as well as mental and emotional fitness.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

A woman that finds a man she believes is handsome and has high social status or wealthy—— will put up with a lot of bs. 
a man that finds a woman he believes is out of his league beautiful that gives him the time of day, will put up with lots of crap too.

we aren’t so different.
My thoughts are that if a guy treats a woman too good, she gets complacent and starts walking on him and loses respect for him and it snowballs. He needs to be well rounded in his friendships and invested in other things and tries to keep a balanced relationship. Same for the woman.
I’m no expert at relationships, that’s just my current viewpoint. But I will say I’ve seen a loooooooooot of women have kids with men that everyone knew was either a cheater, drunk, doper, etc.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Exactly. And I bet most men have heard that crap from at least 1 woman who swore she wanted a nice guy but never actually dated one. That's why men become the "nice guy" who is bitter and jaded. Maybe they heard the other crappy advice people give, "be yourself." What if yourself sucks? You need to be the best version of yourself. Most of the generic advice given to young men is counter productive.





Numb26 said:


> Another problem is a lot of people equate niceness with weakness and try to walk all over you.


I do agree that many young men simply do not have the guidance and direction that is required. I raised myself just fine but to do so, I had to touch the hot plate to learn and do my own digging. No one to tell me the hot plate is hot or to tell me the right way of doing things, not that I would listen to anyone anyway.

A lot of the material online I don't know, if it helps it helps but then you get some real sh-theads like traffickers amassing legions of disillusioned men buying into their nonsense. Meh. Anyway, treading dangerous ground as we get deeper into this issue. I'll contain myself


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I will say this much, even though people aren't gonna like it. All the ladies who talk about how their dad was some angry, abusive, cheating guy on their mom aren't sending the message they think they are. That just means dad found at least 1-2 women to be with. Dad wasn't some dateless, incel, "nice guy" was he? Dad was an abusive jerk who got women.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> I do agree that many young men simply do not have the guidance and direction that is required. I raised myself just fine but to do so, I had to touch the hot plate to learn and do my own digging. No one to tell me the hot plate is hot or to tell me the right way of doing things, not that I would listen to anyone anyway.
> 
> A lot of the material online I don't know, if it helps it helps but then you get some real sh-theads like traffickers amassing legions of disillusioned men buying into their nonsense. Meh. Anyway, treading dangerous ground as we get deeper into this issue. I'll contain myself


Most learn the hard way, through experience. Being too nice usually gets you nowhere but walked on and used.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Most learn the hard way, through experience. Being too nice usually gets you nowhere but walked on and used.


Aye, same goes with women as well. No one should be doormats. Period.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> You know what bugs me, man? I learned when I was younger that if you want success with women, you can't be nice to them. You just can't. I was never a "nice guy" but I would treat a girl really well if I liked her. Sometime in my early 20's I realized that the girls I really liked, that I treated more respectfully, they always overlooked me for some other guy. The girls I was kinda mean to, I never could get rid of them.


@Enigma32 I think this says more about the type of people those women were than women in general. I too have known the women who chase men who treat them poorly. The one common factor they had was family trauma. 

And i get that we all have trauma but some of us display it differently. My type has always been the kind of men who spoil me with affection and their time because I'm needy as hell. I wouldn't ever survive with someone who treats me poorly.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

The title of this post drew me in, though I don’t personally find it relatable to the narrative in the post. 

My former husband was emotionless unless angered or the thought I might want to leave came about. THAT is weakness and what I, as a woman consider a fault and would make me classify a man as a wimp.

if the only emotion you can show is in defense of something, never out of love, never out of a genuineness to be a good spouse or partner. That makes a man weak.

I was trying to respect a man who wasn’t respectable. Not in my marriage anyhow. Sure I’m public, at work, super good guy, amazing leader, no one could out work him, but at home.. could lead at all. Wouldn’t. That is weakness my friend. 

Now of course it’s easy to say any guy begging for his cheating spouse to stay, or not leave or whatever, he shouldn’t be allowing himself to be a doormat, yet there are instances men truly want to save their marriage and maybe realize they may have played a role in their spouse straying. Now I know that’s a tender subject and I’m not trying to ruffle feathers! Cheating spouses need to take accountability for their actions and generally it is their fault and their fault alone in infidelity. But every case is unique usually in some way. 

Either way, what one considers a weakness, another may consider a strength.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Men do need to work at self improvement. I believe that was all he was saying.
> 
> A man doesn't have to try to become something he isn't.
> 
> He should work hard and discipline himself to be the best version of himself he can though. That includes physical as well as mental and emotional fitness.


Definitely. Being the best version of yourself is great. But some people _*try* _to be something they're not. They observe others that seem to "have it all" and try to mold themselves into that other. I've read some posts here about whole forums dedicated to this type of activity. "Alpha Males" or "Chads" or whatever the new thing is. I don't think it's healthy to try and act like someone else. You wind up missing your real life.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> The title of this post drew me in, though I don’t personally find it relatable to the narrative in the post.
> 
> My former husband was emotionless unless angered or the thought I might want to leave came about. THAT is weakness and what I, as a woman consider a fault and would make me classify a man as a wimp.


Not relatable to the narrative?
This is the very narrative that sparks the whole debate.

What all the nice boys want to know is this... why didn't you pick them instead? lol

I agree with you in regards to emotions btw, I struggled with vulnerability and emotional availability in all but one relationship, compartmentalisation stunting my own emotional maturity as a man.



> I was trying to respect a man who wasn’t respectable. Not in my marriage anyhow. Sure I’m public, at work, *super good guy, amazing leader,* no one could out work him, but at home.. could lead at all. Wouldn’t. That is weakness my friend.


It's getting textbook now 😅


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> a man that finds a woman he believes is out of his league beautiful that gives him the time of day, will put up with lots of crap too.


This is true.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Not relatable to the narrative?
> This is the very narrative that sparks the whole debate.
> 
> What all the nice boys want to know is this... why didn't you pick them instead? lol
> ...


Oh well, what I meant was I guess I wasnt expecting to read what I did in the post compared to the title, my brain was somewhere else. It’s all totally relevant, don’t get me wrong. I may not have chosen the right words, still may not be? 😆😆 

Compartmentalizing is probably 90% of men though. Y’all don’t have spaghetti braina like most women where there’s 50 ingredients all swirled together at once lol. Not a bad thing BUT can hinder emotional growth I suppose in relationships.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

heather42 said:


> Definitely. Being the best version of yourself is great. But some people _*try* _to be something they're not. They observe others that seem to "have it all" and try to mold themselves into that other. I've read some posts here about whole forums dedicated to this type of activity. "Alpha Males" or "Chads" or whatever the new thing is. I don't think it's healthy to try and act like someone else. You wind up missing your real life.


I agree with you. I had to learn that advice that definitely works (for me or someone similar) might be very difficult or nearly impossible for a different kind of man to do.

I will say that overall masculinity seems to be on the decline and more masculine men benefit everyone.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> I will say this much, even though people aren't gonna like it. All the ladies who talk about how their dad was some angry, abusive, cheating guy on their mom aren't sending the message they think they are. That just means dad found at least 1-2 women to be with. Dad wasn't some dateless, incel, "nice guy" was he? Dad was an abusive jerk who got women.


Well they didn't all get the women. They got sex and there's no guarantee they didn't pay for it. It's pretty easy to fake being presentable long enough to get laid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I believe the title to be very accurate though the original post veers off into infidelity which is another subject and it just muddied the waters.

I don't respect over emotional, wimpish men and I don't believe women do either.

They often have compassion similar to that of any wounded, helpless seeming person or child, but respect, not.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I believe the title to be very accurate though the original post veers off into infidelity which is another subject and it just muddied the waters.
> 
> I don't respect over emotional, wimpish men and I don't believe women do either.
> 
> They often have compassion similar to that of any wounded, helpless seeming person or child, but respect, not.


I think that’s what threw my thoughts off. But it’s all accurate really.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> Another problem is a lot of people equate niceness with weakness and try to walk all over you.


Excellent point.
Another way of putting this is a lot of people will equate being too kind with stupid and will take advantage of that and not respect them.
I remember watching an episode of the original Star Trek whereas Captain Kirk while beaming back up to the ship becomes split into 2 Captain Kirk`s.
One of him he is passive and lacked the inner strength and authoritative behaviour required to be in command and the other Captain Kirk was aggressive and a badass.
It transpired that one version of the Captain could not function without the other and there has to be a balance of the two, that`s how nature intended us to be in order for us to survive.
Lessons I have learned in life:
Never let people believe you need them more than they need you otherwise that gives them power over you in ways that they`ll treat you with disdain and contempt.
I would not try to win back people who stab me in the back, so to speak, I value myself too much and wouldn`t tolerate such behaviour used against me, they would be out of my life, full stop.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> I will say this much, even though people aren't gonna like it. All the ladies who talk about how their dad was some angry, abusive, cheating guy on their mom aren't sending the message they think they are. That just means dad found at least 1-2 women to be with. Dad wasn't some dateless, incel, "nice guy" was he? Dad was an abusive jerk who got women.


No he didn’t cheat. He just beat her


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

snowbum said:


> No he didn’t cheat. He just beat her


I wouldn't consider your dad very "alpha" or masculine.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gameopoly5 said:


> One of him he is passive and lacked the inner strength and authoritative behaviour required to be in command and the other Captain Kirk was aggressive and a badass.
> It transpired that one version of the Captain could not function without the other and there has to be a balance of the two, that`s how nature intended us to be in order for us to survive.


Tada!








Perfect Harmony!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Tada!
> View attachment 95417
> 
> Perfect Harmony!


Yeah. This is me on a good day.😉


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. This is me on a good day.😉
> View attachment 95419


Hahaha! 😅

Me on a good day is:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Hahaha! 😅
> 
> Me on a good day is:
> View attachment 95420


Hey, I've always rejected the light and dark side of the force.

I'm a grey side Jedi all the way.😁


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Hey, I've always rejected the light and dark side of the force.
> 
> I'm a grey side Jedi all the way.😁


Argh must steer thread back to topic before I geek out! 😅


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


Truly "nice" men are NOT "weak" at all. But you aren't really describing "nice" men here.

What you are describing are FAKE men -- men who pretend to agree with women or who pretend to be something they are not, or who give-in to women because they are too afraid to be REAL and OPEN and HONEST about what they think and how they feel, many times because they don't want to deal with (or cannot handle) confrontation, and/or because they are being manipulative.

THAT is what is WEAK. 

Many PEOPLE (not just women) like other people who are "strong" because they are not AFRAID to be their true selves. There is a sense of security with someone who is real and genuine and open because you can trust what you see in them, and both women and men are attracted by that quality.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> Truly "nice" men are NOT "weak" at all. But you aren't really describing "nice" men here.
> 
> What you are describing are FAKE men -- men who pretend to agree with women or who pretend to be something they are not, or who give-in to women because they are too afraid to be REAL and OPEN and HONEST about what they think and how they feel, many times because they don't want to deal with (or cannot handle) confrontation, and/or because they are being manipulative.
> 
> ...


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


Now I may have a different understanding of the word strong, but the way this strong man works, forgive and file. Keep it simple.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> Now I may have a different understanding of the word strong, but the way this strong man works, forgive and file. Keep it simple.


Just a few discussion questions, for better or more understanding, all I’m after. So strong and dominant men that aren’t charismatic and charming, or nice guys that do confront, do take risks, and are charismatic and charming wouldn’t work? Where did you read women don’t like meek men? or did you mean some women? Sometimes confronting guys get arrested or beat up, kinda depends on why they would confront someone. I know a very meek man who is a black in karate and fights in competitions. He confronts in the ring. Meek isn’t a negative thing in my mind. Nice guys not taking risks, like sleeping with prostitutes and maybe getting a disease? I took that risk, but it was more about me being stupid and lust. Not everyone is an Evile Keneivel. Some risks shouldn’t be taken. Can you clarify this a little. I thought some men and women just wanted a “ bad boy or girl”, or just a flat out evil person. I’ll take the meek.


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## MegaTbone (12 d ago)

Hey there guys. I'll chime in with man ignorance! I feel the.ladies are very correct in men think they know, but they don't know. I confered with the wife about this and her answers were on target with the ladies here. Yes an average women doesn't "see" the weak guy. However their idea of weak is so different than a mans with variables. What my wife has always found attractive with me was confidence. The ability to carry myself in situations without freaking out, or questioning myself. To make decisions. Not my ability to beat hell out of other people. I had and still do a swagger. I can walk into a room of people and easily mingle. Its not looks, its not physical size. Its how we carry ourselves period. Once interested in each other, that's when the variables come into play...such as tone of voice, humor and demeanor, or odd little habits. Compatibility issues come after that. 
But how a man or woman carry themselves in life is a huge turn off or turn on. Im very alpha male, but have no need to dominate.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MegaTbone said:


> Hey there guys. I'll chime in with man ignorance! I feel the.ladies are very correct in men think they know, but they don't know. I confered with the wife about this and her answers were on target with the ladies here. Yes an average women doesn't "see" the weak guy. However their idea of weak is so different than a mans with variables. What my wife has always found attractive with me was confidence. The ability to carry myself in situations without freaking out, or questioning myself. To make decisions. Not my ability to beat hell out of other people. I had and still do a swagger. I can walk into a room of people and easily mingle. Its not looks, its not physical size. Its how we carry ourselves period. Once interested in each other, that's when the variables come into play...such as tone of voice, humor and demeanor, or odd little habits. Compatibility issues come after that.
> But how a man or woman carry themselves in life is a huge turn off or turn on. Im very alpha male, but have no need to dominate.


Swagger was always one of the main things I liked about a guy, and to me it's a combination of confidence and some kind of style or identity that I can relate to. I think you're right on the money. 

My first crush when I moved to Dallas decades ago I guess some people would have thought was a meek guy. He was very reserved. Usually I'm not into reserved, but I knew he liked some of the same favorite music and that means something to me. I think I was basically throwing myself at him. And it was still at least a couple of years before he asked me out.. And he asked me out after a mutual friend who might possibly have been someone he had a crush on because she was a very cute Ann Margaret-y girl, told him I was into Carl Jung. I think that was a result of that I had given him a ride home one day so I knew where he lived which was nearby and I also lived nearby where we worked . One night I had a dream that I was flying around the neighborhood and went to his house. And I told him I had the dream, and he said he saw me. 

I was involved dating around at the time. He got transferred out of state, and he started taking me out when he returned for a visit. Meek isn't always uninteresting.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

MegaTbone said:


> Hey there guys. I'll chime in with man ignorance! I feel the.ladies are very correct in men think they know, but they don't know. I confered with the wife about this and her answers were on target with the ladies here. Yes an average women doesn't "see" the weak guy. However their idea of weak is so different than a mans with variables. What my wife has always found attractive with me was confidence. The ability to carry myself in situations without freaking out, or questioning myself. To make decisions. Not my ability to beat hell out of other people. I had and still do a swagger. I can walk into a room of people and easily mingle. Its not looks, its not physical size. Its how we carry ourselves period. Once interested in each other, that's when the variables come into play...such as tone of voice, humor and demeanor, or odd little habits. Compatibility issues come after that.
> But how a man or woman carry themselves in life is a huge turn off or turn on. Im very alpha male, but have no need to dominate.


Maybe Alpha women who do like to dominate would like the “ wimpy” or “ cuckhold” kind of guy. I’m just a male with no need to dominate or be dominated. Women who like to be dominated would probably like the guy who can beat the hell out of people, especially her, if that’s what turns her on. I like confident women too, they are attractive to me. As I’ve gotten older, the beauty isn’t the first attraction anymore, it’s the attitude. Beauty can hide a lot of hate.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DonJuan said:


> Maybe Alpha women who do like to dominate would like the “ wimpy” or “ cuckhold” kind of guy. I’m just a male with no need to dominate or be dominated. Women who like to be dominated would probably like the guy who can beat the hell out of people, especially her, if that’s what turns her on. I like confident women too, they are attractive to me. As I’ve gotten older, the beauty isn’t the first attraction anymore, it’s the attitude. Beauty can hide a lot of hate.


I can see why you would think that but the truth is that would just be a generalization (about the dominating). 

You know in the animal world, alphas are not the most aggressive. They are usually quite laid back. 

The alpha cat in my sister's house some years back was this big old black tailless cat. He really didn't do much. He was a sweet boy but he wasn't a high maintenance boy at all. He was clearly the alpha. There were a couple of other cats that would fight each other and were way more aggressive than him.

When she got a new kitten we made a box with a couple of kitten holes for it to play in and it was a holy terror as young kittens very often are. It had managed to get the hair up on every cat in the house except the old alpha male. After putting all the other cats in a snit, it started concentrating on the alpha, who was sitting near the box and put up with a boatload of abuse by the kitten for a long time without moving a muscle. Eventually the kitten got right up in his face and stood up on his hind legs and put its claws out and just made a huge obnoxious display. The alpha calmly reached out with one of his big black paws and put it on the kitten's head and held the kitten down while it squirmed and struggled underneath. 

In the animal world, alphas are often the calm composed wise ones.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I can tell you exactly where I cut bait with wimpy people. It is when they won't call AT&t to straighten out their phone bill or don't take care of their pets.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

MegaTbone said:


> Hey there guys. I'll chime in with man ignorance! I feel the.ladies are very correct in men think they know, but they don't know. I confered with the wife about this and her answers were on target with the ladies here. Yes an average women doesn't "see" the weak guy. However their idea of weak is so different than a mans with variables. What my wife has always found attractive with me was confidence. The ability to carry myself in situations without freaking out, or questioning myself. To make decisions. Not my ability to beat hell out of other people. I had and still do a swagger. I can walk into a room of people and easily mingle. Its not looks, its not physical size. Its how we carry ourselves period. Once interested in each other, that's when the variables come into play...such as tone of voice , humor and demeanor, or odd little habits. Compatibility issues come after that.
> But how a man or woman carry themselves in life is a huge turn off or turn on. Im very alpha male, but have no need to dominate.


I’m a male with no need to dominate or be dominated, but wouldn’t women with a need to dominate like the meek and weak guys? I’m more attracted to attitude now that I’m older and have seen how beauty can hide the inner hate. So, the attitude can be much more attractive to people, like being confident. I’ve noticed how confident those people are who are skilled at fighting, meek, not weak. I also thought the cheating wife would like a wimpy husband who doesn’t want to really try and find out and stop it. The husband who would immediatey forgive and file would be to confident and strong and divorce her. She doesn’t want that kind of strong guy, and probably would like those wimpy cuckhold kind.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I can see why you would think that but the truth is that would just be a generalization (about the dominating).
> 
> You know in the animal world, alphas are not the most aggressive. They are usually quite laid back.
> 
> ...


Generalization? Like saying women have no respect for emotional or wimpish men, is obviously not true for all women, just some women. I don’t see being emotional as wimpish for either sex. Real men cry, in my belief.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DonJuan said:


> Generalization? Like saying women have no respect for emotional or wimpish men, is obviously not true for all women, just some women. I don’t see being emotional as wimpish for either sex. Real men cry, in my belief.


I meant as far as saying alpha women wanting to dominate. I don't think that's how being an alpha works.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> DownByTheRiver said:
> 
> 
> > I meant as far as saying alpha women wanting to dominate. I don't think that's how being an alpha works.
> ...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I don't have much experience with cheating wives so I'm really not coming at it from that angle. 

I don't think it's something women think about when they go into a relationship.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I really admire people who are so fearless that they leave the door open because they know they will survive if the person disappoints them and leaves. Emotionally I am not that person, but I made my best effort to fake it to make it. I wasn't that great at it. But I wish I was one of those people.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> A woman that finds a man she believes is handsome and has high social status or wealthy—— will put up with a lot of bs.
> a man that finds a woman he believes is out of his league beautiful that gives him the time of day, will put up with lots of crap too.
> 
> we aren’t so different.
> ...


I think this is close, but misses a very important part...she will lose respect and it will snowball only if he tolerates her walking all over him. If he stands up for himself and refuses to tolerate her crap, then she is just as likely to actually respect him more.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I really admire people who are so fearless that they leave the door open because they know they will survive if the person disappoints them and leaves. Emotionally I am not that person, but I made my best effort to fake it to make it. I wasn't that great at it. But I wish I was one of those people.


What do you mean, “so fearless they leave the door open”? If someone is confident enough to know that in the case of adultery they are not going to want that deceptive spouse anymore, but will forgive them and move on and survive if disappointed and spouse leaves them, wouldn’t be fearless to me, just confident and educated maybe. Why fear losing a disgusting spouse? Maybe they couldn’t see them as disgusting after cheating, I could. I couldn’t kiss someone not knowing whose DNA is in that mouth. I guess for me, whatever beautiful good qualities I seen in my spouse, would disappear once I started seeing them as a loose prostitute. That may be my choice, but I’m not choosing to see them as queen, or as a beautiful wife that I married. Just like some women no longer see their Prince Charming after he’s been out with prostitutes.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


I agree with part of the title, that women don't respect wimps, but that is kind of where my agreement ends.

I am an emotional man. I cry during movies, I cry at weddings and I cry at funerals. Hell, my wife knows which songs will make me emotional and have a chance at getting some tears going in me. That does not make me a wimp. It makes me human and if there is anyone in the world I should be able to cry in front of, it should be my wife. She truly admires that aspect of my personality. 

I am the nicest guy on the planet to my wife, and family and friends, but I absolutely respect myself. I'm a nice guy and I've taken more than my share of risks and had my share of confrontations. I'm nice, yet I can also be strong, dominate and charismatic. I see no reason why these things need to be mutually exclusive. 

My wife has told me that, in part, her initial attraction to me was that she sensed I was friendly, funny, polite and nice. That I didn't come off like an arrogant, cheating douche. The opposite of her ex. And she thought I was hot, lol. Given that she was only 19 I don't think her biological clock was ticking making her want to "settle" down. I would not hesitate to bet that she would say she hit the jackpot with me if asked in confidence. 

I do place my wife on a pedestal, while at the same time I know she is a fallible human like the rest of us. She should be on that pedestal. I put her above every other woman in my life, but it doesn't mean she is put there with no responsibility on her end. She has to do her part to keep that position. So, until she gives me reason to do otherwise, I will continue to be the nice guy that treats his wife like the queen she is.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DonJuan said:


> What do you mean, “so fearless they leave the door open”? If someone is confident enough to know that in the case of adultery they are not going to want that deceptive spouse anymore, but will forgive them and move on and survive if disappointed and spouse leaves them, wouldn’t be fearless to me, just confident and educated maybe. Why fear losing a disgusting spouse? Maybe they couldn’t see them as disgusting after cheating, I could. I couldn’t kiss someone not knowing whose DNA is in that mouth. I guess for me, whatever beautiful good qualities I seen in my spouse, would disappear once I started seeing them as a loose prostitute. That may be my choice, but I’m not choosing to see them as queen, or as a beautiful wife that I married. Just like some women no longer see their Prince Charming after he’s been out with prostitutes.


Why do you assume everything is about adultery? Cheating is not even at the top of the list of why couples break up.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


Did you know that some women are turned off by dominate men and prefer the weaker kind? Not weak physically but mentally, like the married teachers preying on little boys for sex, they like the weaker minded children who can’t discern that their being used for someones sick sexual desire to have sex with a child. They like the boys who feel like their special by being molested and raped by their teacher. I think it’s just better to say some if you mean some, or all if you mean all. Blanket statements like women will always have more respect for the strong dominant men, that are charismatic and charming. So if he’s just strong, dominant, and charming, but not charismatic, or not one of the other 3 things, does it change ”will always have more respect. So if you mean some women, true, but if you mean all women, definitely not true. Maybe you could say most women, and have the facts to back it up.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why do you assume everything is about adultery? Cheating is not even at the top of the list of why couples break up.
> [/QUOT





DownByTheRiver said:


> Why do you assume everything is about adultery? Cheating is not even at the top of the list of why couples break up.


I would answer your question if I understood what everything means? Obviously everything in life is not about adultery. I was asking what they meant by leave the door open, because I’m not sure what they meant. And if this helps, i don’t assume everything is about adultery. This doesn’t even make sense to me, especially when I looked up the word everything.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Leaving the door open means not monitoring someone can constantly worrying about if they're going to stay with you and trying to force them to stay with you.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Leaving the door open means not monitoring someone can constantly worrying about if they're going to stay with you and trying to force them to stay with you.


Ok thank you for helping me to understand. I agree that “not monitoring someone (and) constantly worrying about if they’re going to stay with me and trying to force them to stay with me”, would not be good for me at all. I think if I was that concerned about my spouses trustworthiness, I could hire an investigator to help me find out quicker, one way or the other. Install hidden cameras and listening devices in the house. Worrying doesn’t help and forcing someone to stay isn’t love.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Personality disordered and/or socially awkward and/or unattractive men get 'Nice' and 'Pathetic and Desperate' confused.
WOMEN LIKE NICE MEN, STOP TRYING TO BANG CLUB 304S AND BASING YOUR ENTIRE VIEW OF WOMEN ON THAT, STRIPPERS AND YOUTUBE IDIOTS. Lol


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

SOME women really fall for that tatted up, overly masculine, alpha schtick. I see these guys around, who go out of their way to have skull insignias on things, drive trucks instead of cars, always have facial hair, make sure they tell you when they are going to the gym, blah blah - these guys are a dime a dozen and such a cliche. There can be weakness behind that facade, too.

Weakness is, well, understandably unattractive and I totally get it. I can smell it on men and sometimes I wonder how they have a woman at all.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Gabriel said:


> SOME women really fall for that tatted up, overly masculine, alpha schtick. I see these guys around, who go out of their way to have skull insignias on things, drive trucks instead of cars, always have facial hair, make sure they tell you when they are going to the gym, blah blah - these guys are a dime a dozen and such a cliche. There can be weakness behind that facade, too.
> 
> Weakness is, well, understandably unattractive and I totally get it. I can smell it on men and sometimes I wonder how they have a woman at all.


Biker with kitty cat in his jacket and monkey plush toy in his backside.










Weak or strong? 😅


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Biker with kitty cat in his jacket and monkey plush toy in his backside.
> 
> View attachment 95494
> 
> ...


Well, I check off at least 5 of the things on that list. LOL


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Well, I check off at least 5 of the things on that list. LOL


Lol my Pusheen says hi ☺🤣


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Biker with kitty cat in his jacket and monkey plush toy in his backside.
> 
> View attachment 95494
> 
> ...


HAHA! Love it! Who knows?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Biker with kitty cat in his jacket and monkey plush toy in his backside.
> 
> View attachment 95494
> 
> ...


I bet he's gay. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I bet he's gay.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with that!


Am I? Look at my avatar and my last post on this thread! 😆


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Am I? Look at my avatar and my last post on this thread! 😆


No, you appear to be an ailurophile.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No, you appear to be an ailurophile.


I'm only a humble servant to the dominant species of this planet 😊


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I really admire people who are so fearless that they leave the door open because they know they will survive if the person disappoints them and leaves. Emotionally I am not that person, but I made my best effort to fake it to make it. I wasn't that great at it. But I wish I was one of those people.


I took this to mean being in a long-term, monogamous relationship but not committing to marriage—just expecting the status quo to continue…until it doesn’t.


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> HAHA! Love it! Who knows?


Honest first impression? Weak. Probably wouldn’t look twice at the guy. Which is just an initial biological reaction. I read somewhere that women make an assessment in the first 30 seconds of meeting a man whether or not they would be interested in having sex with him. I believe this to be true—but not that it’s even a conscious decision. There are just two categories the yes column and the no. 

(He is probably an awesome person, who is caring and can maybe box or is into MMA. Hard to guess. If this was all I knew of the guy, I may BECOME interested, but it would take work and I would need to know a lot more about him.)

On the same token, I have excellent “gay-dar” but it only works for men. When I first meet them, I watch for the once-over. If I get the head to toe and back to my face look, I know he isn’t gay because he has assessed me sexually. He (either consciously or subconsciously) has made his decision to which column I belong. Gay men do NOT do this. I have been historically fairly accurate in my observations. Just my own two cents here.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Woundidwife said:


> I took this to mean being in a long-term, monogamous relationship but not committing to marriage—just expecting the status quo to continue…until it doesn’t.


That's not what I meant. I meant married or single.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I barely escaped a predatory vixen many years ago when she caught me being kind to a couple of stray cats.

Some women really like men who care about animals.

That weird biker is in danger of getting his ass kicked (maybe, it depends on his story) but I am willing to bet my hat he gets more than his fair share of women.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Woundidwife said:


> On the same token, I have excellent “gay-dar” but it only works for men. When I first meet them, I watch for the once-over. If I get the head to toe and back to my face look, I know he isn’t gay because he has assessed me sexually. He (either consciously or subconsciously) has made his decision to which column I belong. Gay men do NOT do this. I have been historically fairly accurate in my observations. Just my own two cents here.


That's an odd way to assess sexuality, but I guess it's worked? I tend not to look up/down at a woman while she watches me. Always on the sly. Gay men are also typically very into clothes, and will look you up and down to assess your outfit.

My #1 gaydar clue is their voice. 95% accurate. I also know a fair amount of gay men - I live in one of those large blue cities where there tends to be many. Every single one of them speak a certain way. 

If I was single, I would get the cutest and friendliest dog I could find, live in a city, and walk him everywhere. Young women flock to cute dogs and their owners.


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> I tend not to look up/down at a woman while she watches me. Always on the sly.


They don’t know I am watching. Maybe not every woman knows to expect it, but I do. If I met you, I would SEE you doing it, even though you thought you were “on the sly”…which is probably why it is so accurate. You also may not be as sly as you think,
which could turn off some ladies—just on principle of being judged as sexual objects. Food for thought.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

1) If I don't think a woman is at all attractive in the first 1 second, I don't look them up and down
2) When I do, it's typically when they are turned around. LOL


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> 1) If I don't think a woman is at all attractive in the first 1 second, I don't look them up and down
> 2) When I do, it's typically when they are turned around. LOL


Lol
Gotcha


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

minimalME said:


> The word ‘meek’ is being misdefined.
> 
> Meekness is strength under control (positive control, such as discipline and restraint), whereas weakness is a lack of strength.


Nope, it's being used properly.


meek
/mēk/
Learn to pronounce

_adjective_


quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Nope, it's being used properly.
> 
> 
> meek
> ...


Meek people are easy marks for most people. Don't be meek!


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.


Losing your spouse, your lifestyle, your friends, etc., over cheating is a terrible situation for any man or woman.



> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women. Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys. Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps). Nice guys don't confront and don't take risks, the list goes on forever.


Women usually marry (and reproduce with) nice guys. The guys they divorce are usually not nice guys. Their primary focus is on the well-being of their children, who are well-served by a nice guy as a dad.

A person who is a doormat is at increased likelihood of being cheated on, though.



> On the other hand women will always have more respect for the strong, dominant men that are charismatic and charming. Women don't like meek men, that in itself reveals a lot about female nature and female attraction.
> This can be analysed as natural behavior that dates back to the caveman times when the strongest most dominant males got first pick of the most attractive, fertile women.


My understanding of the science is that they often pair up with a nice guy, have most kids by the nice guy, but might have some kids with a guy with superior genes. Both types of guys are successfully reproducing this way. “Not all women” and “not all men.”



> Stereo-typically women are attracted to men who are of strong character, civilised but don`t place their female partners on high pedestals and for these types of men there is a higher chance of their female partners remaining loyal.


A “reformed bad boy” — that is, a man who combines the best qualities of a bad boy and the best qualities of a nice guy — is probably attractive to most women.

Statistics indicate that most married women do not cheat. Most first marriages last a lifetime.

You can improve your odds of loyalty by picking women who have college degrees, come from an intact family, loves her father, never cheated in the past, not an alcoholic or drug addict, not seriously mentally ill, etc.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

minimalME said:


> I think women appreciate genuine kindness.
> 
> Often, men who refer to themselves as ‘nice guys’ are actual very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain.


I disagree. It’s a fair question for young men to ask why young women claim to want one type of guy but date another type of guy.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> Women usually marry (and reproduce with) nice guys. The guys they divorce are usually not nice guys.


 So did the guys change while married?
If they got divorced they had to be married and by your logic that means the woman married a 'nice guy'.
These 'nutshell' generalizations are bull ****.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

The phrase "Nice guys finish last" has been around for a long time and like most sayings, are based in truth. Being a "nice guy" comes with its own problems, just like being a "bad guy" does. The trick is to find a happy medium.

I spent decades being the "nice guy" and look what it got me. Now that I am not being the nice guy all the time things are so much better.

Find that happy balance and you will do ok.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Nope, it's being used properly.
> 
> 
> meek
> ...


No, it’s not. To be meek is a positive quality. 









Spiritual Meekness: An Imperative Virtue for Christian Leaders


“Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.” This well known statement of our Lord is taken from the Sermon on the Mount. But what does meekness truly mean?



www.regent.edu













What does “blessed are the meek” mean? | GotQuestions.org


What does “blessed are the meek” mean? What does it mean that the meek shall inherit the earth? How is meekness a virtue?



www.gotquestions.org







A Discourse On Meekness and Quietness of Spirit by Rev. Matthew Henry


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

minimalME said:


> No, it’s not. To be meek is a positive quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I usually agree with you on most things but not this one. Meekness is not a desirable character trait.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

> > minimalME said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





CraigBesuden said:


> I disagree. It’s a fair question for young men to ask why young women claim to want one type of guy but date another type of guy.


I won't speak for minimalMe but I believe she is using the psychological definition of "nice guy" as in the No More Mr. Nice Guy book and you are using it as a adjective that means they are actually kind.
She is exactly right about the "nice guy" being "very angry, and their niceness is a thin veneer that covers a lot of pain" they are not a kind/nice guy. Think orbiter.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

minimalME said:


> No, it’s not. To be meek is a positive quality.


I posted the Websters definition. The theological definition may be construed differently but in the context of this thread the Websters definition is accurate.




> Meekness Defined
> 
> Dictionary.com describes meekness as *docile, overly compliant, spiritless, yielding or tame*. 3. Merriam-Webster define it as mild, deficient in courage, submissive and weak


Then there is biblical based:


> Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said: “*Meekness is strong, not weak*; active, not passive; courageous, not timid; restrained, not excessive; modest, not self-aggrandizing; and gracious, not brash.
> *8 Ways Meekness Is Not Weakness*
> https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org › new-era › 2018/09[/QUOTE


I believe most subscribe to the Websters definition and the theological definition is justifying a bible verse.
Personally, I consider it an insult or a fault.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> I disagree. It’s a fair question for young men to ask why young women claim to want one type of guy but date another type of guy.


I would say dysfunction?

We are still individually responsible for how we respond or react to others.

And I stand by what I wrote earlier. The primary problem presented in this thread is that a person is not getting something they believe should be theirs. This type of core attitude comes from someone who believes they’re ‘better than’.

A man only has so much say in who a woman does or doesn’t choose, and if a woman doesn’t choose him, it’s none of his business why she chose someone else. He can assume or speculate or ruminate, but that’s not going to make him a better man.

The ‘noise’ inside him, created by this situation - or any other he deems as ‘unfair’, is what’s under his control.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> I usually agree with you on most things but not this one. Meekness is not a desirable character trait.


I understand, and I won’t debate the difference further, because we have different worldviews.

The Bible encourages us to be meek. Jesus was meek. I will choose meekness.


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> A “reformed bad boy” — that is, a man who combines the best qualities of a bad boy and the best qualities of a nice guy — is probably attractive to most women.


Agreed.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Gabriel said:


> SOME women really fall for that tatted up, overly masculine, alpha schtick. I see these guys around, who go out of their way to have skull insignias on things, drive trucks instead of cars, always have facial hair, make sure they tell you when they are going to the gym, blah blah - these guys are a dime a dozen and such a cliche. There can be weakness behind that facade, too.
> 
> Weakness is, well, understandably unattractive and I totally get it. I can smell it on men and sometimes I wonder how they have a woman at all.


You just described the physical type that 95% of the ladies in my area swoon for. The more tats the better, the bigger the truck, the better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> You just described the physical type that 95% of the ladies in my area swoon for. The more tats the better, the bigger the truck, the better.


Country town? Big city they go for suits


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Country town? Big city they go for suits


What if a man can pull off both looks?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Also I have a thought in regards to this apparent attraction to the 'bad boy', looking at the relationships in the past I would be lying if I didn't say I don't have an edge due to my upbringing and attitude. But it wasn't the meanness or wanting to get abused that they liked. I simply was the avenue where they could be themselves without judgements that I know they would have with anyone 'generic'.

Sexually or even violently. They could confide their darkest desires and thoughts with me, and we could laugh together in our own twisted ways, and keep each other's demons at bay.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

minimalME said:


> I understand, and I won’t debate the difference further, because we have different worldviews.
> 
> The Bible encourages us to be meek. Jesus was meek. I will choose meekness.


Jesus is viewed as a positive figure by Christians.

Uncle Tom, from Uncle Tom’s Cabin, is viewed as pathetic by many black people, though he is portrayed as essentially Jesus.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> What if a man can pull off both looks?


😅

What he wakes up to:


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> 😅
> 
> What he wakes up to:
> 
> View attachment 95532


Never been more then 3 for me. 😉


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Never been more then 3 for me. 😉


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Country town? Big city they go for suits


Small-ish town, yeah. A lot of rural areas here. I got so tired of reading Tinder profiles of ladies asking for a tattooed guy with a big truck. When I first started talking to my wife she asked if I had tattoos and was happy when I said no. I knew she was the one right then 🤣


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Small-ish town, yeah. A lot of rural areas here. I got so tired of reading Tinder profiles of ladies asking for a tattooed guy with a big truck. When I first started talking to my wife she asked if I had tattoos and was happy when I said no. I knew she was the one right then 🤣


Fks sake mate, if that's 95% of the women in your town no wonder you had to import, fking oath I would have imported too probably MUCH SOONER


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Fks sake mate, if that's 95% of the women in your town no wonder you had to import, fking oath I would have imported too probably MUCH SOONER


I should have done it long ago. Now I spend my free time bragging to my friends about how good I've got it. The wife has me going to a bunch of events hosted by her local community here. Does that make me honorary Asian?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I should have done it long ago. Now I spend my free time bragging to my friends about how good I've got it. The wife has me going to a bunch of events hosted by her local community here. Does that make me honorary Asian?


Maybe LOL


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

?


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> Losing your spouse, your lifestyle, your friends, etc., over cheating is a terrible situation for any man or woman.
> 
> 
> > Yeah. This is rough. More pain than I eve remember experiencing before.
> ...


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

I give up. Can’t fix post. May be wifi service.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> You can improve your odds of loyalty by picking women who have college degrees, come from an intact family, loves her father, never cheated in the past, not an alcoholic or drug addict, not seriously mentally ill, etc.





Woundidwife said:


> This was definitely (and still is) me. . So much for being a productive and successful member of society. Didn’t help in my marriage.


It goes both ways, though. The man should have those same things. (Well, substitute “love his mother” for “love her father.”) Even then, nothing is ever guaranteed in life.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

duplicate post


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> It goes both ways, though. The man should have those same things. (Well, substitute “love his mother” for “love her father.”) Even then, nothing is ever guaranteed in life.


Love for close family members can never be substituted.
Love between close family is supposed to be unconditional.
Love between friends and even relationship partners is not unconditional.
Even if we fall out with family we`ll always be tied to them by blood, with others we are not.
This is why relationships other than close family have to be worked on with good communication and compromise.
The old saying, we can choose our friends and not our family is true and also applies to relationship partners.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Personally, I find ‘unconditional love’ to be a myth.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

minimalME said:


> Personally, I find ‘unconditional love’ to be a myth.


I agree. You can empty your cup on behalf of another person, even to the point of nearly emptying it. However, you need your cup filled in order to continue to being able to love somebody.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

UAArchangel said:


> I agree. You can empty your cup on behalf of another person, even to the point of nearly emptying it. However, you need your cup filled in order to continue to being able to love somebody.


Yes - good, strong relationships are reciprocal.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


I agree with this if you replace "nice" with "weak".


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

minimalME said:


> No, it’s not. To be meek is a positive quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a difference between spiritual meekness and being meek in life and with other people. Spiritual meekness basically mean you are submissive to God. In day to day life meekness means you get easily pushed around by other people.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> 😅
> 
> What he wakes up to:
> 
> View attachment 95532


Ahhhh, nothing as good as breakfast in bed.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There is a difference between spiritual meekness and being meek in life and with other people. Spiritual meekness basically mean you are submissive to God. In day to day life meekness means you get easily pushed around by other people.


Meekness is misunderstood. It really means to be emotionally mature and self control. A high EQ.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> There are many men who post on TAM concerning they suspect their wives or know their wives have or are cheating or having an affair and not knowing what to do because they don`t want to lose their wives and will become melancholy and pensive to the situation rather than make a stand and take a no tolerant approach.
> This in-fact are the biggest turn offs for women.
> Rarely will women have respect for non-confrontive weak nice guys
> Nice guys can be weak and are seen by women as not respecting themselves, (wimps).
> ...


Our wives wiped manliness from us. Get it back dudes.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> You just described the physical type that 95% of the ladies in my area swoon for. The more tats the better, the bigger the truck, the better.


Do you want to sleep around or get married? Tattoos increase your sexiness but lower your relationship value:

* Do Girls Like Guys With Tattoos?

Like you, women play the dating game with certain goals in mind. For simplicity’s sake, let’s divide the female species into two groups: Those who are dating for the fun of it, and those who are looking for a boyfriend and the future father of their children.

If she’s just dating for fun...

...then the answer is “yes,” she likes guys with tattoos. Women who are looking for one-night stands, secret lovers, and friends-with-benefits will probably like your ink job.

According to a survey by the dating app Type, nearly two-thirds of its female users find men with tattoos attractive. And yes, since it’s a dating app, it’s safe to assume most of its users are just dating around for fun.

Likewise, many other studies suggest women associate tattoos with male traits such as aggressiveness and dominance. Put simply, men with tats are immediately perceived as the “alpha male bad boy” types—and that’s why they’re so attractive from a no-strings-attached standpoint of dating.

There’s also the fact that getting inked is painful. When they see the tattoos on you, they see badges of honor—proof of your strength and toughness as a man.

And lastly, women tend to think if you’re a bad boy, she doesn’t need to keep up the “good girl” facade. She can let her hair down, be herself, and get naughty if she wants to. All this adds up to one thing: A tattooed man is a hookup-minded girl’s dream come true. *









Do Girls Like Guys With Tattoos in 2023? The Real Dirt


Do girls like guys with tattoos or is that just some macho propaganda designed to make men feel tough? We have some interesting answers.




beyondages.com





Disclaimer: Not all women, not all men.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

There sure seem to be a lot of posts with the "nice guys lose out" kind of theme.

I know I could just not click/read them, and that would be a fair criticism to lob at me.

But it seems like this topic is disproportionately taking bandwidth on TAM. 
Maybe posters ought to just put the comments on pre-existing threads rather than new ones?

I may sound like a crotchety senior citizen, but can we just move off this topic? Or at least try to keep the discussions on pre-existing threads for a while?


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

"Why do PEOPLE higher on the CLUSTER B SPECTRUM have less respect for emotional and wimpish people?"

Yeah there's a point where women (and men) lose respect for overly emotional and pathetic behavior - but that doesn't mean the complete opposite garners respect or attraction. 
Lots of women like emotion if it's displayed in an intelligent, non aggressive way. 
No one likes a wimp. It's not ok to be weak. It's all of our responsibilities to push ourselves for the ones we love and for our own futures. Being a wimp is being selfish.

Women don't respect men with no emotion, either. 

If you date lots of abusive cluster B women, then it warps your view of reality and makes you think ALL women don't respect 'nice' guys.
It's easy to meet personality disordered women because they are perpetually single, they keep getting dumped or leaving and they have good game and seem interesting at first, plus they love sex and have loose boundaries.


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