# Revolving door of emotions, finding the answers?



## Riven (May 4, 2012)

My husband is/was an alcoholic. He's been dry since the morning he woke up with another woman. He remembers parts of the night, but doesn't remember what he was thinking, doesn't remember if he had sex with her or not, and doesn't remember much of the next day.

Now before everyone says he's lying, I don't think he his. He's offered hypnosis, polygraph anything to help me find out. He he knew he'd tell me. He actually thinks I'd be better off if I did leave him because I don't deserve what happened. I heard part of the conversation on the phone when he called me on accident from his pocket ( his phone does that often ) and she asked to go with him, he didn't ask her. I know he didn't stop her, but he wasn't actively hitting on her.

But I'm very haunted by not knowing what happened... sometimes he'll really feel like he did have sex with her, other times he doesn't. A big part of my wants to find the girl, he doesn't know her, he was at work so it's not like she lives around here or we know who she hangs out with, etc. and find out what happened. 

The rational part of me knows this is not a good idea and would just open a huge box of disaster... 

Does anyone have any tips or ideas on how to get past this? Tomorrow is week 11 since D day. The days are getting better, husband is supportive... but it always seems to come back to this for me right now. 

I would appreciate any replies not attacking, calling me stupid or ignorant, or insulting the situation.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Why not take up his offer of the polygraph?

I assume this boils down to whether or not he's lying to you about the sex. After all, you have to be pretty much resigned to the idea that they did have sex--I mean, he was drunk and woke up next to her in a hotel room. If you were going to D, you would just have ended it a while ago.

Here's how I've handled it in my own situation. My husband says he was in an emotional affair with nothing exchanged more than a few kisses. I have read many, many, many emails at this point spanning over years, all of the emails were discovered by me through pure luck, nothing was intended for me to read. There is zero mentioned in these emails about sex of any kind. Not even kisses or hugs are mentioned. Nothing physical is discussed nor do they mention any meetings except for public daytime ones--all of this backs up his version.

Am I stupid or what? No, I am not stupid. I am completely open to the idea that it was physical and I just don't have any evidence. In that case, it means he is LYING to me. If I ever find solid evidence that he's lied about the nature of the affair, at this point, it will be such a profound betrayal that I will divorce him over it. I've given him a couple of "amnesties" where I said this is, you better come clean. He holds to his story. It's not the sex for me--it's the lying.

In your case, you have pretty solid evidence that he did have sex. Have you tried the super loving gentle method (amnesty) to see if he will change his story? Have you discussed the likelihood that he could be forgetting with his counselor (I think the counselor backs him up that he blacked out). 

As I've told you before, I have a friend who was nearly raped because she was so blind drunk. I have several college friends who frequently reached blackout stage from drinking and they could recall nothing (one came home with her arms and legs covered with permanent black magic marker).

Another issue that occurred to me is that if he was blackout drunk--whether he would be able to perform. Has he ever been extremely drunk and had sex with you this way? My...let's say my understanding is that it can be very difficult for a man to orgasm (and sometimes even maintain an erection) when this drunk. So maybe he tried really hard, but he might not have accomplished the mission. Has he suggested this was a possibility, himself?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

He'd have to be severely intoxicated for him not to achieve arousal, which might be the case given he can't even remember the next day. 

But I don't think you should seek closure in this way. If you're both committed to reconciliation regardless of the circumstances and he's taken steps to curb his drinking and shown remorse for his actions, just try focus on the possibility that he didn't have sex with her. You don't need any more heartache to deal with at the moment.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

I don't think that he is lying to me. I truly think he doesn't remember, but then I question if he doesn't remember because he doesn't want to, or because he can't. One time I asked him to think back to that morning did he have clothes on? Did he walk across the room naked? And he got upset and shut down, said he doesn't like to think about it... He's told me everything I've asked without acting off about it or me feeling like he was lying at all. He's even said he wished he remembered.

He knows that he didn't "get off". What I don't understand is things he said right away, doesn't mesh with things now. Right after it happened I said snidely "Well I hope you enjoyed it" and he replied, " It was horrible, I couldn't even keep an erection". Now he doesn't remember if anything happened. Her being there was wrong. I know that. I'm not excusing it. I'm just trying to heal... I feel like if I knew what happened I could heal instead of coming back to it. 
In the past when he'd had been drinking he was unable to reach an orgasm with me. Unfortunately they doesn't really answer if he did have sex with her or not. All of his tests have come back clean.
He has not drank at all. He knows one drink and I'm gone. 

We have counseling tomorrow... I just wish I had answers. For some reason I feel like they would ease the pain.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

I don't know, maybe I should bring this up with the MC tomorrow. Reading my own post I sound like an idiot...


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## TheMarriageandFamilyClini (Mar 3, 2012)

How long ago did it happen? If it happened a long time ago, don't let this hang you up in order to achieve reconciliation. It sounds like BOTH of you are uncertain what happened. This sort of uncertainty when trying to heal a marriage can be absolutely toxic. If you're not certain he's telling the truth (in this case because he was so intoxicated he can't remember) then perhaps the best thing you can do is assume that the worst happened and try to reconcile it from there. If he's open to it, not defensive, and does not try to minimize what he did, then this is a good place to start. If not, you may need some marriage counseling. Hope this helps.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Riven said:


> he replied, " It was horrible, I couldn't even keep an erection".


He can recall that he allegedly couldn't keep a hard on, but he can't remember what happened? That doesn't make sense. 

OR

It's the classic TT.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hopefully he can stay off alcohol in the future. This might have been a wake-up call for him.

My best wishes for both of you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Riven said:


> I don't think that he is lying to me. I truly think he doesn't remember, but then I question if he doesn't remember because he doesn't want to, or because he can't. One time I asked him to think back to that morning did he have clothes on? Did he walk across the room naked? And he got upset and shut down, said he doesn't like to think about it... He's told me everything I've asked without acting off about it or me feeling like he was lying at all. He's even said he wished he remembered.
> 
> He knows that he didn't "get off". What I don't understand is things he said right away, doesn't mesh with things now. Right after it happened I said snidely "Well I hope you enjoyed it" and he replied, " It was horrible, I couldn't even keep an erection". Now he doesn't remember if anything happened. Her being there was wrong. I know that. I'm not excusing it. I'm just trying to heal... I feel like if I knew what happened I could heal instead of coming back to it.
> In the past when he'd had been drinking he was unable to reach an orgasm with me. Unfortunately they doesn't really answer if he did have sex with her or not. All of his tests have come back clean.
> ...


I agree with Complexity now after reading this additional post from you. I don't see the point in trying to dig further.

He was obviously trying to have sex with her. He obviously had his clothes off. He was in a hotel room with her alone. He was drunk. At this point what you're trying to parse is the technicalities. Did he stick it in her? Yes, probably. I'm sorry to be blunt, but everything he's said to you and you've said to us indicates this.

So you're quibbling over whether he maintained an erection long enough while extremely drunk in order to orgasm.

You've said this issue was a turning point for your husband, an inspiration to stop drinking. As far as you know, he's stayed sober, correct?

If he wasn't an alcoholic, if alcohol wasn't involved, if he had not at least admitted he was TRYING to have sex with her, if he had not at least admitted he was naked in a hotel room with her, you might have some mileage with this one. But if I were you, I'd see this for what it is: likely his "rock bottom" that most addicts (alcoholics) have to achieve before they are sufficiently horrified with themselves to STOP drinking.

I know it's hard, but "rock bottom" for an alcoholic is like a rebirth or conversion story. They were in the dark, and then they saw the light. As much as this horrible incident is destroying you, you need to see it from the addict's perspective: he is grasping at this horrific event as a point to work to turn his life around.

I believe in nailing down a cheater who is trying trickle truth. But at some point we are talking such niggling details (did he maintain an erection long enough to orgasm, or not, while extremely drunk) that I'm not sure what you are getting out of it.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Peronsally, my H had a physcial encounter while drunk. I looked at this differently. I assumed there was trickle truth going on, and I assumed he did sleep with someone else. I quit trying to get the "truth" because really all that mattered, in the end, was he cheated. There was no fine line. I don't care that he was drunk. 

It's your personal choice how you take it. Semantics and arguing the details. 
Like driving drunk and not getting caught. 

Alcohol becomes the excuse for everything. It no longer matters what he did... what he does about IT is more important.

If your H takes this as his wake up call to quit drinking, that would be a good thing. 

If it's important to you because you have a mental boundary that sleeping with someone else is a dealbreaker, then ask yourself why you are defining that boundary. Is not a rule a rule? That's his trap of using being drunk to excuse his behavior. 

Would he have slept with someone else if he was sober? That's the question I would ask of myself.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

It's not did he orgasm, it's did he have sex with. He is pretty sure he woke up with his clothes on...

Counseling was interesting today, we both ended up breaking down. Last night he had a moment of truth when he got called out to work and woke up with me not in bed with him because I had moved downstairs. I think everything hit him really hard last night.


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## muttgirl (Mar 23, 2012)

I think you are focusing on sex/no sex when being married to a blackout drunk alcoholic should be a huge issue for you. If he is lying about women isnt he lying about his drinking too? Do you know the dangers and heartache of alcoholics? I do. This is not a small problem and what if the decision was about manslaughter drunk driving instead of whether there was an erection? Are you fooling yourself or do you think alcoholism just isnt a big deal? Are you focusing on this incident because you dont want to see the whole ugly problem?


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Muttgirl, please read the last sentence of the OP.

This isn't about his drinking. That is a different topic. 

The world is full of what if's, so what if I get killed by a falling avalanche today walking through the desert? He didn't drive, he knew he was drinking that's why he didn't drive...

I'm tired of everyone having their own holier than thou input on information that's not on topic. If you want to talk about his drinking, then that's a different thread. It has nothing to do with the question in this one. You don't know the situation, you don't know what he's doing or not doing... He's changed his entire life, new job, no drinking, home every night instead of gone all of the time for work... none of that is relevant to the post. You don't know why he drank, what triggered his drinking, what he usually did while he was drinking any of it. 

I'm sorry but this happens every time, I see it all of the time on this board. It's very saddening when people are asking for help and everyone else just attacks them for other reasons.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

deejov said it all.

Also, Riven, your situation is in many ways similar to oregonmom. While I understand TOTALLY that you are focused on the sex part, like oregonmom, when you're dealing with a substance abuser, parsing out "how much was sex" and "how much was alcohol"--you may never, ever, get the answer to that one. That is what I strongly, strongly feel. No one is minimizing waking up in a hotel bed with another woman. No one is _blaming_ alcohol on this. But even if alcohol is no excuse, it's inextricably intertwined to HIS situation. 

There is NO alcohol involved in my husband's affair. How do you think I feel about THAT? He was stone cold sober 100% of the time and he deliberately chose every move that he made. That is what most betrayed spouses have to live with. Not that we want to trade places with you, because living with a substance abuser is a nightmare unto itself. But it is important to get perspective on your situation and what you are dealing with.



If the words "It was horrible, I couldn't even keep an erection" came out of his mouth, I can only glean one interpretation: he wanted to have sex. He tried--to some level--to have sex. But you know this already--he was alone with her in a hotel room. He didn't go there to sleep it off with a friendly companion.

I sincerely hope you are in individual counseling. I found IC to be tremendously helpful. If you are in counseling and don't like your IC, find a new one. This type of issue you're dealing with--the not knowing of some details that are bitterly important to YOU if not to anyone else--is the precise issue that an IC is for. They will (or should) gently step with you the ins and outs of what you know, what you don't know, and what you have to come to terms with. We ALL have stuff like this.

For me, I will likely never know for sure whether my husband's emotional affair had any physical component. Some people in my situation would drive themselves INSANE. What I am doing is living day by day with learning to accept that I may NEVER know the truth. I am choosing this, and by choosing it I am simultaneously fully turning to my husband and recommitting to him. There has to be a marriage for the cheater to return to. Otherwise, there is no point; might as well D.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

Riven,

We've talked before on a thread that was about your H's alcoholism. iheartlife is right - we try to seperate the addiction and the A, we tend to focus on things that may or may not be important. Unfortunately, they are two things that can't really be seperated.

Addicts are liars. Problem is, they don't even realize it sometimes. They have been lying for so long, they don't know the truth anymore. They have an ability to rewrite history and not remember or mis-remember things that we as the sober partner can not even fathom not remembering. It is extremely frustrating. I'm with you in that boat.

I would tend to agree that since he did say at one point that it was horrible and he couldn't get it up that he does remember that. My H has said many things he has tried to back pedal on later....it's typical addict behavior. If you ever do find out the REAL truth (whatever that is, and how will you REALLY know after so many different stories?) that is going to be years down the road when he finally starts to see things clearer.

Like I said, I'm struggling with the same kind of issue. I have come to the conclusion there are just some things I will never find out. It is tough, and that doesn't mean those things don't drive me crazy EVERY DAY, but it is getting better. If you are looking for R with your H, it's the only thing you can do. It weird because the addict and someone in an affair act so similar (trickle truth, gas lighting, blame shifting, rewriting history...I could go on) but once the A is exposed, you're dealing with a whole other animal. 

My thoughts are with you - please feel free to PM me if you need to vent about this stuff, and get to a meeting even tho they are far away


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

This is also important Riven, and something I didn't consider until my H said something one night...

I assume your H is working the steps and has a sponsor? If he doesn't, this is important. You may not find out the "whole" truth until he reaches step 9, making amends. As BSs, we want the WS on our time table, and usually this is reasonable. But we can't speed up our addict/alcoholic's recovery, and that needs to happen first before we can expect to know the whole story. Yes, this is unfair and yes it can cause our own recovery to be put on hold. It's just an ugly truth of dealing with them, and you can make the choice if you are willing to wait for that.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Riven, I hope we didn't scare you away. 

I don't want to trivialize your concerns. Knowing the truth is important to you. It may always be. I hope you do find what you seek, eventually. If it puts your mind at ease.

The point I wanted to make and it didn't come out this way, was that the drinking shouldn't be excluded. I am worried that you might be thinking it's important to know if he actually really had sex, and make a subconscious thought such as:
"did he really have sex?" No? He was too drunk. 

Thank goodness he was drunk, or he would have had sex with that woman and I would have no choice but to get divorced because that's a dealbreaker. 

Your mind finds a way to make it less of a dealbreaker, because it's too harsh to accept.

And then there is the mental way that plays out. Because he was drunk, it makes the incident less offensive, not really cheating, etc. etc. But that is part of a person with a problem coming to terms with it. It's a common perception that people will do things drunk they would NEVER do sober. 

Most times that isn't true, for long term drinkers. That was more harsh for me to accept than anything else. Choices. There is always a choice.

It doesn't have to be a dealbreaker, btw. Until it happens to you.. you don't know what you would do. But I give you my support, in trying to work it out. I hope things go well.


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