# Never would have thought I'd cheat on my husband (who cheated on me)



## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Some of you may remember me, and many of you may no nothing of my story. I haven't been on TAM in a long time. I guess after repeated pain and lies, my heart became numb and I was less desperate for the TAM crutch. I decided to post an update to my story in part to express to waywards (and potentials) what may follow the fallout.

PREVIOUSLY: I found out in Nov 2012 that my husband was calling prostitutes. For months, I was lied to, promised it would never happen again, but kept finding more evidence of betrayal. Whenever I wanted to leave, he threatened suicide. (I called 911 and he spent a few days at the psych ward.) Finally, I got to the point where I no longer felt a romantic attachment to my husband. He was still a special figure in my life, but we were more like roommates than anything. He continued deceitful behavior up until the point that I told my parents what had been happening. I only told them because I had decided we were going to separate and divorce. I finally was able to get a second car which would allow me to be free.

At this point, and it was in the late fall, something changed for my WH. I don't understand it, because he was considered a "sex addict", but he seemed to rise above all the behaviors and lies. Since telling my parents, I have no evidence of him cheating or covering it up. 

That said, it was too little, too late. He waited until I was emotionally DONE. He squeezed every ounce of blood out of my heart and ripped it for good measure. And while he stopped ripping my ventricles apart, he didn't help me restore my self-confidence. He was easy on me, but he didn't make me feel sexy or desired. He basically just acted as if nothing had happened though he had stopped his behaviors. For me, it wasn't enough. 

Before he had stopped contacting random people through Craigslist, I began for the first time fantasizing about being with other men. That was a few months ago. Like I said, I was numb and all my desire for my husband was drained out of my system. I struggled to complete fall term, and ultimately I gave up my full-ride fellowship in my Masters program. I couldn't function. I was depressed and stuck and alone. Note I have struggled with depression in the past, but it returned with a vengeance after being cheated on, lied to, gaslighted repeatedly.

NOW: Fast forward to now. I have nothing but my mind and life experiences. I lost my scholarship and Masters program. I lost my love. I was unemployed, searching half-hazardly for work while depressed. My WH was unemployed (mass company lay offs) but receiving small payments which were allowing us to barely get by. 

I finally decided if nothing else, my goal is to begin experiencing life to the fullest. By that, I mean that I wanted to experience a full-range of internal experiences to know what it can mean to be human. I started going to a philosophy meet-up group, imagined trying some spiritual drugs like ayahuasca, and explored sexual fantasies I have had on the internet. 

All this time, my husband is a much improved person. He still went out much more than I liked and too often kept his phone close to him, but I really don't think he was cheating on me anymore. He let me do my own thing and didn't pressure me since he knew I was so depressed.

The opportunity arose, and I decided I wanted to "experience life to the fullest." I had sex with another man. I'm embarrassed by my own hubris. I shared some details with one of my oldest friends, and my WH intercepted the message. I won't lie and say that it was a mistake made in the moment. I had previously imagined what I would do in such a situation - and honestly, I was at the point where it didn't matter. In my mind, sex was fulfilling in a physical way but no longer meaningful in the sense of commitment. 

Obviously, he was shocked and hurt immensely. I clung to the belief that I would never have done this EVER IN MY LIFE had he not sucked the life out of me. I still maintain this. While I acknowledged his pain, I also explained repeatedly how I emotionally got to this point.

What hurt him the most was that he had beat his own devil while I went out and played with my own. He kept saying that if I had done it back when he was still betraying me, it wouldn't be as bad. What he doesn't understand is that at that time I still was emotionally attached to him - no matter how he treated me. I had ZERO desire for other men. It was only after repeated lies, betrayal, gaslighting, and pain that I lost my faith in him and our love.

Honestly, I don't think marriage is for me anymore. I'd prefer we have an open marriage. I want to grow old with him and be friends forever. But I wish we both had sexual freedom and NO EXPECTATIONS. I don't want to place my trust in anyone again. When there are no expectations, there is no loss and no pain.

Interestingly, my husband very quickly forgave me. He said he had done this to me and knows I would never have done so otherwise. He said we are now even. I almost sense after letting it sink in it gave him a sense of relief. He was no longer the only monster.

The strange part in all of this is that I do not feel remorse for having made love to another man. If anything it restored my self-confidence and made me feel young again. It felt super good to be sexy, liberated, and to be affirmed by a man.

It also is strange that I feel like this has had a positive impact on our relationship. Maybe because it wasn't a revenge affair and I was perfectly aware of what I was doing. It sort of forced us to see our relationship for what it is. I think he was imagining us as something more than we were at this point. I don't think he understood how unfulfilled I felt, no matter what I said. He actually took responsibility for not fulfilling my needs. After I cheated. 

We talked about what we wanted moving forward. Perhaps this rupture in our story was needed to force us to make decisions. I told him these were the scenarios I could see. I want him to be my friend until I am old, so I accept these scenarios if they grant me that. 

1. Stay married but open marriage
2. Separated/divorced but friends for life
3. Stay married and say we will be committed (but there will never be security - our marriage is so messed up so early one, there is no way for me to put my faith in us for a lifetime)

He didn't like any of these choices. But he was for the first time ever actually cool about discussing these options. Cheating on him seemed to clear the air and allow us to talk about things we could never discuss before. He said he wanted to stay married and said we could do couples-switching if I wanted to spice up my sex life. 

It's really not about spicing up my sex life. Maybe it is to an extent. But what it really is about is NO LONGER LIVING WITH EXPECTATIONS TOWARD MY PARTNER. I want to live without expectations and without promises. I just want to promise to be there for each other as friends and partners. I don't want either of us to promise monogamy. Because the promise contains the potential for pain that I never ever want to endure again. It contains the potential for drama and suffering.

I'm a very open-minded person but I had always believed in marriage working if both parties were committed to doing the heavy work. I no longer believe the fight for purity is worth it.


The back story:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ory-dday1-done-though-he-doesnt-know-yet.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/83929-my-fears-slowly-killing-me-killing-himself.html


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

ER. Wow. I got nuthin. Thats a first.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

You are not 'even' now. There is no eye for an eye. It does not work that way because you don't grow together while causing each other pain.

The choice is yours. I honestly think that you could possibly do number 3 but it is very hard work and has to be done the right way. You have got to let the pain go and be brave enough to face that you could get hurt again if you really want number 3.

If not you can take the road less traveled and the easy way out and just divorce. There is no such thing as an open marriage. It is some machination of legalism and detrimental psyche practices. An open marriage will lead to divorce.

The questions to ask are: Who are you? What do you really want? Can you pursue what you really want with your husband or do you need to start over?

Those are the questions you need to ask. I am sorry for you sister. Forgive him and yourself and don't let your mind dwell on misery. Focus on the positive in your life. You were meant for great things. All you have to do is realize that.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Read her stories. You could almost see the depression and the affair coming.

From a logistical point of view:
#voice of spock emotionlessness
fascinating

MA repsectfully, My wife is friends with a woman in an open couple. They have done the lifestyle like 15+ years complete with trips to some convention or something at Hedo 3. Rare. But possible. Then again it seems improbable the OP could do it. FEW can.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation, actually to the both of you, both of you are hurting but from different perspectives. My biggest concern with your outlined list to you your husband is that first and foremost, any successful open marriage requires a very strong foundation of marriage, something i do not read within your post, and secondly and most important is that i am deeply concern that opening your marriage will lead your husband down the same path with his demons. I get that your not in love with him anymore, but you obviously care for him. I would not subject him to your tryst, it would be like rubbing salt into a gapping wound, it would be better to be friends and dissolve the marriage, to remain supportive for one another, then cause him future grief. Who knows maybe time apart even in a divorce state might give each of you time to reflect about missing the best parts of each other.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

I agree that we are not "even now." Those were his words and a way for him to feel a sense of relief, I think. In any case, the questions you pose are very helpful, MovingAhead.

Here are my honest responses:

1. Who are you? 

I am definitely in the middle of an identity crisis. I have never in my life felt so confused as to who I am or why my path has taken this trajectory. My story does not make any sense no matter how I try to connect my past goals and identity to my now state. It is very unstable to live without grounding and knowing who you are. 

2. What do you really want? 

I want to be free to experience life to the fullest and to pursue my passions whatever they be. I want to grow intellectually and find meaning in life through experiences and questioning my patterns of thinking and viewing the world.

I also want to know that he is okay no matter what happens. I cannot live without this knowledge, and I want to still be connected in some capacity when we grow old.

3. Can you pursue what you really want with your husband or do you need to start over?

Goodness, I'm not sure! I doubt he will ever fully understand my personal philosophical/metaphysical/existential quest. But I'm not sure that is even necessary that he relate to it. It would probably be easier to pursue what I really want and determine who I am if I started over. BUT, I'm not willing to risk losing him as a companion. 

I know an open marriage sounds crazy and pathetic to many. But perhaps because my baseline is an incredibly unhealthy relationship full of deceit that openness is appealing and does not sound so awful. I'm also pretty open-minded compared to most people. I have one friend from college who is in a polyamorous marriage. Only now do I see its value. They are both super-educated, very compassionate people. They are also neuroscientists and heavily informed by scientific knowledge and philosophic concerns. 

I dont intend on having children in a relationship like this. I'm not harming anyone else. I think that is key. In fact, I'd rather separate/divorce but be super close. I don't think I can have both, though. So yes a transparent, open, and honest marriage appeals to me.

Thanks for the comments, questions, and advice!


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

I must agree with Xenote. You want an open marriage and he has agreed, probably because he feels that he owes you. That simply won't work.

He'll let you have your lovers and the chances are very good that it will kill him inside. You say you don't want the commitment of marriage but you want to remain friends. I don't see anything anywhere that tells me that you really love your husband anymore. If that's so, then this is just an arrangement of convenience...for you.

As Xenote said, your marriage isn't strong. An open marriage is almost destined to cause a lot of problems if that's true. 

Ask yourself the question really, why be married? If you don't want the expectations, the commitment, then why stay married? Are you doing him any good?


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> 2. What do you really want?
> 
> I want to be free to experience life to the fullest and to pursue my passions whatever they be. I want to grow intellectually and find meaning in life through experiences and questioning my patterns of thinking and viewing the world.
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I was in a very similar situation.

What you both need is to hit the re-set button, get counselling and see if you can heal your marriage and yourselves.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

So sad for yalls situation. I would recommend D before open marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Xenote, what you said is so wise and obvious. I don't know why it didn't strike me as so. How on earth can I expect an open-marriage to work when we lack a healthy relationship to begin? Clearly, I hold some confused ideas and illusions. 

While I might appear selfish here, and indeed I did something very selfish, my desire for staying together is not simply based on egotistical needs. I still love him deeply and whatever he feels, I can feel it. I'm detached romantically. But I still care about him very, very much.

If I believed HE would be okay with us separating and if money were not an issue, I would push for that. The issue is twofold at the moment. On the practical side, we are struggling to pay our bills and it is impossible for us to afford separate lives even if we both wanted it. In addition, he is not okay with us divorcing/separating. I would like to for at least a year. However, there is no point in pushing it if we ARE UNABLE TO DO SO FOR FINANCIAL REASONS. It's not just that money is tight. We are trying to repay my parents, one of his friends, and we are sharing a car. We don't have high-paying money jobs. And recently my husband lost $800 on the way to turn it into a money order to pay rent. 

I guess we need to focus on getting our finances in line right now and in the meantime try to figure out what we both want. It's very difficult to talk to him about these things. And often he has the all or nothing attitude. I also find it very hard to be direct about what I want. I struggle to say something when I know it will hurt him. 

And again, why hurt someone when we physically are unable to live separately at this time?

The more I think about this, the more I do think that open marriage is not a good choice. Separation - at least for a period of time - is probably what we both need to figure ourselves out and re-set our relationship to one another. 

That said, it's physically impossible. And probably will be for several months to come.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree with what somebody has said - a polyamorous (or open) marriage has to be based on there being a strong marriage foundation in place which is clearly not the case with you - so I would definitely rule that out.

I cannot fully understand why you need your husband as a companion or friend having been through what you have been through - is this some false sense of security or friendship ? If you remove this from the equation, then what you want and who you have become is very clear. You want to be single again and not just single, but a real adventurous, go out and get em, let your hair down type of single person.

The only option as far as I can determine from your wants (I won't say needs because this does not appear to be the case) is to get divorced and do it in as amicable a way as possible and then go your separate ways. This will give you the freedom to swing and do whatever it is you are fantasising about.

It is coincidence that your itch has come along at the same time as your marriage has broken down and I do not think that you should try and connect them in any way. You could have had the same itch even if you were in a happier marriage (remember no marriage is completely without its ups and downs) and you may or may not have acted on it.

Anyway, you have just started to scratch that itch AND at the same time your husband has tried to clean up his act - hence your quandary: if he had not, you would have had a nice justification for the itch.

Get divorced and enjoy yourself.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

totallyunexpected: I think you have a good handle on your situation. Your sexual/life preferences have got to take second place to your more pressing concerns, which is to solve your financial crisis. That has to come first.

Put your desires aside for now and if and when you get yourselves out of this financial duress, what you may want individually or together may become much clearer.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Manfromlamancha,

Thanks for joining the conversation. I guess I do itch for freedom. But I do believe it is thoroughly connected to what he did for me. I've always been open-minded but I was also always committed and believed in the idea of marriage. I do not hold that belief anymore and I spent so much time trying to change him - only to realize I can only work on myself. 

Separation and divorce are both not practical unless one of us magically wins a couple thousand dollars. Thus, I guess we have to find a way to trudge on without hurting one another unnecessarily.

You ask why I say I need to have my husband in my life forever as a companion or friend at least. Well, we understand some part in each other that no one else does. From the start, we have had a very nonverbal understanding of one another. And yes, we both still through all of this deeply love each other. But love with this many fractures and problems is not enough to resurrect this marriage. But I don't consider our love and understanding of each other false or fake. Then again, I don't know quite how to define our love to one another. I guess I'm also protective over him in the sense that I can't bear the thought of him struggling alone. I don't know if I'm making sense.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I don't know what to say other then do what you know is right for you.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

PreRaphaelite said:


> totallyunexpected: I think you have a good handle on your situation. Your sexual/life preferences have got to take second place to your more pressing concerns, which is to solve your financial crisis. That has to come first.
> 
> Put your desires aside for now and if and when you get yourselves out of this financial duress, what you may want individually or together may become much clearer.


PreRaphaelite,

Thank you for clearly stating this. You are right. Now is the time to put aside sexual life/fantasies and such things that only complicate our relationship. It's time to solve our financial crisis and perhaps after doing so we will find which path we want to take.

In other words, I'm going to focus on finances and growing as a person in all ways BUT sexual (unless with husband).

Thank you all. I'm surprised by how much this has clarified things in my mind. I don't know why I stayed away from TAM for so long.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

You want your freedom. Are you afraid to give him his?


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

No, I'm not afraid to give him his. He doesn't want it. And he is afraid of me having mine.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

totallyunexpected, It is good to be open minded. I consider myself to be open minded, but we shouldn't be so open minded our brains fall out and i am saying that for me as much anyone.

Most of the poster here suggest divorce
It does not have to cost very much for divorce, if both agree you do not have to get a lawyer.
do not expect him to stay friends after divorce 

If your husband is up to try swinging then i guess there is not much to lose at this point, well maybe the final blow to the marriage and friendship.
You still need boundaries if you do this, It usually only works in stronger marriages and even then.....
and by boundaries i mean like things same room sex or different room the list goes on.

I wish you two good luck and hope something will workout.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> No, I'm not afraid to give him his. He doesn't want it. And he is afraid of me having mine.


I'm sure that's true. He's scared to death of anything like "freedom" because it means that life as he has known it is over, and he has to start anew. 

Once the security blanket no longer exists for him and he has to face his life as it is, his view may change. He's managed to turn himself around already and get himself off the addiction. Now he's afraid of losing you, and maybe that's the next thing he has to come to terms with....letting you go and getting on with his own life.

But first.....the finances.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> Thank you all. I'm surprised by how much this has clarified things in my mind. I don't know why I stayed away from TAM for so long.


TAM would make you accountable. Is like distancing yourself from the "judgmental" friends, even when they are in the dark, it's fear at work.
Happens all the time.

Am I wrong?

I don't think you don't believe in monogamy or marriage anymore. It's totaly situational. You can always put it on some kind of recent evolvement thou, it's obvious you are very intelligent and articulate.
You are "adapting" to the new reality that totaly condradicts your dreams and values, the reality you were so invested for so long, a complete life plan.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

totallyunexpected said:


> Then again, I don't know quite how to define our love to one another. I guess I'm also protective over him in the sense that I can't bear the thought of him struggling alone. I don't know if I'm making sense.


I know that feeling of love. I call it "familiar love" (love of a family member). It nicely fits with the protective nature and so forth, but the lack of a romantically inclined 'hallmark' sort of love. My SA WW also seriously damaged that kind of love in me though there are occasional sparks and embers that could be stoked (but aren't).

You could be describing my future as well. So much damage and hurt that your head isn't all there or in a place you know it 'should be'. So you are dealing with where your head is now. And most expectations or reliance on your spouse are gone. 

What I do I call my "Village Idiot"... I allow myself to just feel without ‘steering it’. By that I mean I try not to think about how I should be feeling about whatever the circumstance and judge the right or wrong of it, but instead just see what I do feel and note it. I use that to plot my direction. I think of it like being water flowing; it goes where it wants. Much better than being a defined thing like a rock in that stream fighting the current and slowly being worn down by it all. The rock is static, the water has the adventure. My stream just happens to enjoy being with my wife for no rational reason whatsoever...


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Acabado - Actually, I don't think I was avoiding TAM in order to avoid judgment. It's more that I had no desire to go to it. Rather than the excruciating pain that I had felt, I became numb and simply felt a blanket of depression over my being. TAM had no appeal. This was happening before I began to contemplate sleeping with another person.

I've also tired of the pinning down the cheaters game. You know, at the time, I was so into reading threads about the signs of cheaters, how to nail them, and so on. Eventually it all became blah. Almost irrelevant or at least uninteresting to me.

That said, I gained soooo much from TAM and it has informed me every step of the way. And you Acabado are one of the personas who I remember well. 

Racer, I'm sorry you're going through a similar situation. You nailed that with the term "familiar love." I also really enjoyed reading about your "Village Idiot" (lol) approach. I completely know the feeling of just trying to exist independent of judgment and the uncontrollable currents. 

There is this quote by Rumi: "Out beyond ideas of right doing and wrong doing there is a field. I'll meet you there."

While it's really meant to be mystical, it speaks to the place I'm at.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> No, I'm not afraid to give him his. He doesn't want it. And he is afraid of me having mine.


This isn't a reason to stay married. 

Also, you stayed in CWI of TAM not all of TAM. To get out of the rut, I started popping into other threads. Makes a huge difference.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You with others will eat him alive. He is putting up a front.

Kill the marriage before you kill his heart and his ego.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

if i understand you correctly, both of you are currently under some financial constraints that will not allow you to separate, it will not give the option of divorce, and therefore leave in a situation where both of you have to remain at home. Given that it sounds like counseling may be your best option, (though that too can be expensive) there other outlets where counseling can be offered for free or minimal cost. But you will need some intervention by a third party who can see the lay of the land and help both of you deal with the issues. Might i also suggest and i realize it is easier said than done, is that the both of you set rules of engagement with each other in order to minimize the pain caused by both of you. i truly hope this works out for the both of you.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't think I could have sex without love, but that's just me.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Marriages are for two not three.

You having sex outside the marriage will not heal anything for you. Not only that as a woman you will be more success finding a FWB then your WH/BH as a man will. Causing more damage to your WH/BH and marriage.

You had your RA and you see it did not repair any thing.

You spent time here in the past and all you could come up do to in response to your WH was to have a RA and make him a BH as well.

This place has not given you the tools to recover. You need to get those tools and use them. Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley, then his other book His Needs Her Needs.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I hope that you realize that your H hurt you deeply. You have hurt him deeply.

I hope you have decided to stay away from the open marriage idea.

You will not find happiness becoming a FWB to several men. It will not enrich your life. One former couple that we knew went thru the "open marriage" lifestyle. However, it was not a total open lifestyle. It was very one-sided. The H found out about all of her one-sided experiences. She thought some of the men loved her, but they in reality liked the sex. She did not see that they really enjoyed her company but had no long-term interest in her. When her H did find out about all of the one-sided events, he could not take it and divorced. He could not have her in his life, and the kids stayed most of the time with him. She needed her freedom.

She must not have found the happiness and freedom that life was supposed to bring. She took her life. 

I do hope you will find happiness, but many times the happiness comes from within and not from having the full unrestricted carefree experiences that the world will offer.

Good luck to you and your H.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> No, I'm not afraid to give him his. He doesn't want it. And he is afraid of me having mine.


You know what is so sad TU?

That your husband cheated you of a beautiful loving relationship and now you have returned him the favor.

Infidelity only hurts both of you no matter who is cheating.

But what is even worse is that when you love the right person, and that person loves you and respects you in return then you are free.

And you cannot see this because you two have hurt each other so badly.

And an "open" marriage is just putting a different set of rules on an already dysfunctional relationship.

Get your $$ straightened out. Get your Masters.

Then figure out what you want out of life with him or without him.

Then you will be on your way to freedom.

Glad you came back. That shows us just how smart you are. 

HM


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

totallyunexpected said:


> Racer, I'm sorry you're going through a similar situation. You nailed that with the term "familiar love." I also really enjoyed reading about your "Village Idiot" (lol) approach. I completely know the feeling of just trying to exist independent of judgment and the uncontrollable currents.
> 
> There is this quote by Rumi: "Out beyond ideas of right doing and wrong doing there is a field. I'll meet you there."
> 
> While it's really meant to be mystical, it speaks to the place I'm at.


Yep. And you’ve figured out some basic understandings like I have. You control only you. Your husband will be whomever he chooses to be; at best you can be an influence, but he’s going to make his own choices in life. 

Unlike most here, personally, I don’t take large issue with how you are handling this. I’ve always said one the scariest recognitions a wayward should ever have is understanding a BS who decides to R. A BS who decides to R has decided adultery is not a dealbreaker. They really need to understand all that implies and stop seeing it through their selfish perceptions that it is exclusive to their infidelity alone. He forced you to make that choice. You chose to believe sex and monogamy is not a foundation of marriage to him. 

That mental loophole creates a whole new realm of possibilities of what this relationship could be with him and what is defined as ‘acceptable’ or not for it to continue. He made the dreadful mistake of creating a situation where you had to dig deep on that question from your side of the table...


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Some souls have gotten free of their bodies.
Do you see them? Open your eyes for those
who escape to meet with other escapees,
whose hearts associate in a way they have
of leaving their false selves
to live in a truer self.

I don't mind if my companions
wander away for a while.

They will come back like a smiling drunk.
Thirsty ones die of their thirst.

A nightingale sometimes
flies from a garden
to sing in the forest.
-Mevlana Rumi

TU.... To be certain philosophy, metaphysics and other such noble searches for truth serve the passions of the living. It is the burning within that defines our truest sense of self. You protect the wound that has not healed, and you insulate your heart by rejecting the intimacy that was betrayed. Today you wander, tomorrow you come home to heal from within. (Dear TU, please consider IC as an emotionally battered spouse)


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Are you still attracted sexually to your husband? Is he to you? Are you living as man and wife or as roommates now?

I think you are considering maintaining a marriage on a rancid foundation. I can see that it makes financial sense for the moment, but for the long term? Your newfound understanding is based on recognition of the pain and heartbreak dished out by your WH. To make this dysfunction the primary building block of a life plan seems very wrong to me. It seems much more like resignation than enlightenment.

You are far too young to resign yourself to this. I hope you are able to extract yourself and find a greater happiness for yourself.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

duplicate post


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

TU - our stories have so many similarities it's almost unreal. I'm the BH who would NEVER CHEAT and then after so many injuries to my soul, I finally did. I've also contemplated all the options you've considered and more.

We went through a period where we considered an "open marriage" and met MANY couples who were in open marriages. It's a universal that the HAPPY SWINGERS always started from a foundation of strength and honesty. Your situation (and mine) didn't have that foundation.

Everyone's given you some great insight and things to think about. Many articulated what I was going to say when I first read your post and I don't want to repeat things. 

I only noticed one thing that nobody questioned and it just seemed to jump out at me like a giant glaring beacon... Namely that your husband who had a problem with prostitutes in the past "lost $800"... I don't have all the details, but from reading the thread it seems like a very real possibility that the money wasn't simply "lost" but may have been spent on something he isn't willing to tell you about.

If he's continuing to "lose" money it's hard to imagine that your financial situation is going to improve by staying with him. 

Good luck, however your path leads you forward.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I honestly don't think having a open marriage or swinging is the answer. In order for that to work IMO you have to have a really strong marriage and a ton of trust.

Trying to repair a marriage and bringing someone in from the outside isn't going to help but make it worse and I'm just giving my opinion and have never been in a open relationship.

I am though one of those people that (after being burned twice in relationships) look at it from this point of view.

You cheat. Your gone. No excuses, no reason to give me the whys and what fores. I refuse to live a life of always having that feeling that I have to wonder if she/he is being faithful. Wont live like that.

Yeah, I know it sounds hard hearted and being too damn rigid but when I look in the mirror and see the scars from the knife that was stuck in my back, I would rather not take the chance. I'll live under a bridge with a clear mind and just the clothes on my back before I have to spend the rest of my life sleeping with one eye open until I meet my maker.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

TotallyUnexpected, your story is rich in complications and subplots. One thing that stands out to me though, is that each of these alternatives:

1. Stay married but open marriage
2. Separated/divorced but friends for life
3. Stay married and say we will be committed (but there will never be security - our marriage is so messed up so early one, there is no way for me to put my faith in us for a lifetime)

does in fact entail a set of expectations toward your partner (which is what you said you want to get away from). Different expectations than now, maybe, but expectations nonetheless. You really cannot have a relationship, especially one in which you contemplate growing old together, without expectations of some kind. Otherwise you would be strangers.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you all for your input! My responses:

First, I think you are all right that an open marriage is not a good idea for us.

Second, counseling is not an option at this time. We are that broke. I very much want to go to a doctor because I'm in a pretty deep depression, but I'm waiting until we have enough to first pay our bills. 

Third, one person was quite critical of my "revenge" affair. While it is fair to be critical, it was not done out of malice. I think there is a major difference. I didn't want him to find out.

Racer: you understand me! 

CaptainLOTO you must, too! (Note I'm pretty sure he lost the money by accident. He would have gone to a much cheaper lady and he is freaking out about money, too.)

Philat: Alright I concede. Expectations color every relationship. Still, I think there are different levels of expectations and at this point I do not want to put myself out there expecting 100% faithfulness. Is a French attitude toward affairs so awful?

A few more thoughts. I know some people feel I sunk to the same level as my husband. Honestly, I don't think so. In every other contract, after one party reneges on his/her promises, the contract is nullified. That said, cheating even as a BS is still hurtful to a partner and thus I must be accountable for the pain I caused.

Still, I really don't regret my actions or blame myself. I think if I had had a revenge affair I would look at this differently. I know this will not sit well with many, but it is the result of lived experiences and my attempts to survive repeated infidelity. 

Had my husband cheated one time or twice or stopped when I caught him, things would be different. I would have forgiven and been faithful. Repeated cheating and lying for months on end changes everything. I didn't want him to hurt, but I also won't condemn myself for the situation I have been put in and the actions that I chose. I tried to separate/divorce before and was manipulated with suicide threats. I called 911 and we ended up having a huge bill. This has all been incredibly difficult and has shaken my world such that beliefs once held no longer seem applicable.

A year ago, I would agree with many of you who are critical of my choice to have a ONS of sorts. But my line of thinking has changed. It's not that I am crazy sexual or want to mess around with tons of people. Actually the swinger thing does not appeal to me. But I do know that I am a sexual human being - like us all - and that I NEEDED that affirmation and experience. I felt alive in a way I haven't in so long. When you are almost dead, the value in coming alive even at the expense of another can be worth it. The equation changes you know.

By the way, my husband seems to be doing just fine. He never went through an angry episode. He isn't moping around. He seems to have accepted it all with relief. That said, understandably, he is being paranoid and checking up on me, what I'm doing, and where I'm going.

To reiterate my plan: 
1. Sort out finances.
2. Focus on me in all spheres except for sexual.
3. Be as kind toward my husband as I can be given our situation.
4. Hold off from big decisions until we are in a safer financial place.
5. Try to get into the doctor and sort out my meds as soon as we have the money.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Unlike some here im not someone that believes all marriage is worth saving. Divorce sounds good to me. 

Frankly, having read all of your backstory marriage may have been a mistake. 

That is just my opinion. 

As long as you dont keep cheating on your hubby. Your plan sounds good to me.

Best of luck. I hope your financial situation gets better.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Some observations:

Marriage is a two way contract with two sets of vows - he broke his and I still do not fully understand why - prostitutes? Sex addiction? These weren't affairs so is/was there something wrong with him?

The marriage contract is nullified by divorce or annulment not by him breaking his vows, so yes, however justified you may feel, you did the same as him but not with prostitutes (upside: it was less expensive, but could become equally addictive - downside: it was cheating just the same). And if it turns out that he was a sex addict or there was a mental illness causing his behaviour, then he might even have better justification. In sickness and in health ...etc. I don't really believe he had better or any justification but I don't know his story or why prostitutes instead of ONS's.

That field beyond the realms of wrong doing and right doing is highly romanticised in poetry but in actual fact is where society breaks down. And no matter how much many of us claim to be different from the rest, we are social creatures and do need and rely on social structure, rules, laws etc. Be wary of wanting to meet anybody there. One of the maladies of many of our great academics is a form of narcissism that places them above others (whether they openly admit it or not) and hence they often feel that they can well operate beyond the bounds of society. Be wary of such people because often they are the ones that are broken. I would not be taking too much advice from them on life and social matters - science maybe. Mark Twain much better than Sheldon from Big Bang theory!

From what I have read this marriage is over and in reality, as Jessie J said, it's all about the money, money, money. You are right in that I do not understand about your "love" for your husband - it just comes across as wanting to hang onto him while pursuing your other wants (and you do have a number of well defined wants not that there is anything wrong with that). 

As another poster kind of referred to, I do not see a plan for financial recovery - if a saving of $2000 is all you need how do you plan to save this given your husbands "spending" habits and your lack of qualifications? And why do you only need $2000 to divorce him and each of you go your own way?

The only thing that you need to do is deal with your finances (which is still unclear but I hope not to you) and then set him and yourself free. Sure it might hurt him more than you as you have said, but it will be temporary and nothing in comparison to the misery you both will face if you continue like this. 

At this stage I would not disappear down the rabbit hole of who is right and who is wrong and justifications. You have all the details you need (maybe not all the truth).

Good luck with the financial recovery and moving on.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

There's so much wrong with all this to even say that you're "continuing" with any sort of grip on reality, and it sounds like you're reaching for any reason to justify why you feel this way about you're life.

Your husband had some sort of problem with sex... not a problem with any kind of emotional affair. At least he did get himself together - for you, most likely.

You had trouble and got forced out of school, which ruined your plans for your imagined future.

Self-admittedly, you're depressed.

So now you're struggling reaching for straws to define where you think you should be going (philosophy, psychedelic exploration, sex fantasies), as opposed to just sitting down and figuring out where you are now, and will be, for the foreseeable future.

Don't go trying the ayahuasca - you won't like what you tell yourself, or what it's effect may be on retarding your own recovery. Ask your neuroscientist friends about that, and perhaps check out some of the rigorous psychological and psychiatric screening that Strassman's DMT study at UNM had - you're unfit right now.

Get counseling. Don't say you can't afford it, because even in New Mexico there are plenty of support groups and volunteer services. There IS free, professional help.

So yeah, there you have it. It took a bunch of troubles dealing with marriage, school, and ultimately your own psychological state... time to get back on track and fix what's broken, mended, and needs to get started back up..

Now I'll get all metaphysical and ask you to "expand your mind" - consider the possible effects of your own affair, the tachyons produced by it that do travel backwards in time, and how they could have pushed you husband into his problem.

Anyways, you can fix everything if you want to, and if you try... we've all seen much worse that did end up with the closest thing to "happily ever after" that you could expect without any previous problems.


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

It sounds like you're doing your best in a tough circumstance. I wish for your finances & health to improve rapidly so you can have more freedom to make any choice you wish. 

You're clearly intelligent and thinking through things the best you can. Hang in there and keep coming back for thoughts, ideas and support. 

We want the best for you and sometimes it's hard to imagine or articulate that. 





totallyunexpected said:


> Thank you all for your input! My responses:
> 
> First, I think you are all right that an open marriage is not a good idea for us.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm going to truncate my last post which got deleted before I submitted it. (Er!)

Counseling: I HAVE searched high and low for free or super-affordable counseling. To no avail. There are plenty of resources for people under 18 or in college, but nothing for a 27-year-old on her own. I'm struggling to afford medication - that is going to come before therapy sessions.

A field without right/wrong: True, it's a romanticized concept. But yes, I am in a blurry moral field right now. Whether I had chosen to be 100% faithful through it all, I still had to live in a fuzzy, unstable moral world. I'm honestly not getting hung up on who is right. It's not even that relevant. What is relevant are the following questions:

1. What does he want?
2. What do I want?
3. Can we achieve that together or not?
4. Can we both forgive?

Those sorts of questions matter. It doesn't matter what justifications are thrown out there. It's not so much justifications as explanations. He was a sex addict. That doesn't excuse it but I UNDERSTAND it. My heart was wrenched from my soul and in a dysfunctional state I chose to cheat. That doesn't excuse it, but it explains the why and how it happened. I do think people need to know why. The whys are not excuses. They are explanations which allow us to in some degree make sense of wrongful actions.


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