# Flirting??



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I have no idea where to post this so please move it if this is the wrong place. 

So my question is what constitutes flirting?

My history of flirtation is pretty much non existent. I don't know how to flirt, I am a fairly reserved, self-conscious person. When I was younger I found men intimidating and would barely look them in the eye. I have a gay male friend because he is non-threatening. If someone is flirting with me, I really do not pick up on it until someone points it out. 

I am pathologically friendly. I find it hard to be rude. I laugh at peoples jokes and am quick to compliment others. I am like my mother, a people pleaser. 

So....I recently was accused of flirting with my BIL and this is why both my SIL's hate me. (They are both in their 40's - not teenagers). I cannot for the life of me figure out where my behaviour crossed the line between friendly and flirting. The only thing I can think of is I would laugh at his lame jokes and I found him the easiest of family members to talk to :scratchhead:. When they first got together I told her that he was very good looking (but I didn't have the hots for him - I was trying to be complementary).

It has had more of an effect upon me than it probably really deserves. I am now very self-conscious that my over friendliness is misconstrued as flirtation. I have reverted back to being quiet in social settings particularly around men. I feel I give off a flirtation vibes without being aware of it. I also feel a little furious that I have been excluded from family gatherings on the back of it, which effects my husband and children. It seems like a huge over-reaction to nothing. 

What do you make of it all?


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

*both my SIL's hate me.*

Are your two SILs sisters to each other and to your husband? I'm asking because the family dynamic is influenced by where the biological ties lie.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think people use the term "flirting" to cover a very wide range of things from simply being friendly, to attempting to seduce someone for actual sex. That makes discussion difficult because people aren't using the same language. 

To me "flirting" is a game where you make the other person almost, but not quite sure that you are very physically attracted to them - but without ever saying so explicitly. If two people are playing, its almost a game of chicken.

To me flirting crosses the line to being not-OK when there is any chance that it could proceed to real sex, or if specific statements of desire are made. 

Its a game - and a fun one, but potentially dangerous if it goes too far.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> *both my SIL's hate me.*
> 
> Are your two SILs sisters to each other and to your husband? I'm asking because the family dynamic is influenced by where the biological ties lie.


Yes both my H's sisters.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

What you described does not sound like flirting to me. We have a large family, blessed with many wonderful BILs and SILs. I've noticed that these in-laws DO tend to gravitate towards one another, for exactly the reasons you mentioned that you were at ease with your own BIL. They'll joke with each other and tease each other about their spouses (my brothers and sisters) sometimes trying to one up each other over "who's got it worse". It's all in good fun and it brings them closer together, family harmony all around (most of the time )

It sounds as if your SILs are terribly insecure and engaged in a power struggle against someone they view as an outsider. They desire this dynamic for their own twisted and unknown reasons. It's unfortunate for you, your husband & children, and ultimately your SILs. 

I suspect your best response to their slights and accusations is "What ludicrous accusations. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I won't even bother to defend myself for being FRIENDLY" Do not dwell on their toxicity. This is hard for people pleasers, but a sad, angry, reaction from you is probably what they are looking for. 

If they are your husband's sisters, he should put a stop to the shunning and insults IMMEDIATELY


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Telling your SIL that her man is attractive is absolutely a COMPLIMENT to them both...if she is a secure and confident person.

I "flirt" with friends' husbands frequently. It's my job as their friend to remind them what wonderful men they married. And my friends to the same for me.

Don't beat yourself up. You've done nothing wrong.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Maybe you need to ask what they saw you do/say so that you will know exactly what it was. Hopefully, your husband can talk to them and find out why they are upset with you. You don't mention your husband, but what does he say/think about it?

I am 100% against all flirting expect between husband/wife or partners and I have been in the position where a woman was flirting with my husband in front of me, as well as a few other men, and it wasn't nice. It also wasn't anything to do with insecurity as people here have implied. My husband eventually had a word with her and challenged her on it and she admitted that she knew she did it, but because her father had always been emotionally distant she sought out other men's attention.:surprise:

Anyway, surely the best thing is that you ask for specifics(or your husband can find out) so that you know not to do it in future and things may settle down.It may just be one or two things that you say or do that hurt them, but you won't know unless you ask them.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

peacem said:


> both my SIL's hate me. (They are both in their 40's - not teenagers).


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> You don't mention your husband, but what does he say/think about it?


Honestly? He cried laughing....

He won't even entertain confronting them because it is just very silly to him.

I didn't see the funny side to it.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

What people define as flirting can be a pretty broad spectrum sometimes. I know people who consider just complimenting someone of the opposite sex who isn't your spouse flirting. I guess technically it is but then there's the split between harmless flirting and real flirting. Personally I see flirting as suggestive comments to a person of the opposite sex, not explicitly referring to something sexual in nature but eluding to it. I see nothing wrong with harmless flirting in a public setting, compliments here and there and things like that. But when the flirting turns to something eluding to a sexual reference or flirting with someone in a private setting like on the phone or texting, then that's crossing the line.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

peacem said:


> Honestly? He cried laughing....
> 
> He won't even entertain confronting them because it is just very silly to him.
> 
> I didn't see the funny side to it.


It sounds intentionally hurtful if you are being excluded from family events. No funny side there.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> It sounds intentionally hurtful if you are being excluded from family events. No funny side there.


SIL (who has the flirted with husband) has FG's once a year and sometimes a family party for her 2 children. We found out that we were never invited to any of them. When we asked another family member they said it was because of me. Because I flirt. 

So we ALL got excluded. It makes me feel very guilty - but I am not sure why? :frown2:


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Peace,

You could get a thousand responses here and everyone's opinion of what is "flirting" and what is not will be different as will their reaction to their spouse or partner doing it with someone else. The problem is not flirting as such but rather "boundaries". There are some women who can flirt and then with just a look pour cold water on a mans libido. If this is a common issue where this "flirting" thing becomes noticeable to other than the family involved here, then you are correct and are putting out vibes in some way.

The important thing is that probably all infidelity starts with some kind or form of "flirting". There is no answer that is a fix all. There is probably no one reading or responding to his that has not exchanged "flirtatious" glances or interactions with a member of the opposite sex. But you do this enough times and in locations where your spouse is not around and it can lead to trouble.

The fact is a certain percentage of folks will cross the boundaries and that is the sad fact. knowing which ones it will be will never be answered.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

I'm a flirt sometimes. I flirt with women and men and it's not about hitting on them. I'm just being playful. I've been shut down by men who thought I was coming on to them and thought, really? What did I do? when I've been particularily happy and to me, fun. Guys like me. Not all girls do. Guys are laid back, gals can be crusty.

This seems like a communication issue. Have you talked to the sisters? Surely if there's no ill intention on your part, you could explain that. Or is it like that time at my husband's work gathering when the young thing drinking wine directed all her attention toward him and didn't even move to let me take my place beside him when I walked up? I was invisible. I didn't really care cuz at the time I foolishly trusted my man and thought she looked very silly. They're FB friends and she dons her bathing suit a lot, a high need for attention. Are you sharing your friendliness with the rest of the family?


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Don't Panic said:


> What you described does not sound like flirting to me. We have a large family, blessed with many wonderful BILs and SILs. I've noticed that these in-laws DO tend to gravitate towards one another, for exactly the reasons you mentioned that you were at ease with your own BIL. They'll joke with each other and tease each other about their spouses (my brothers and sisters) sometimes trying to one up each other over "who's got it worse". It's all in good fun and it brings them closer together, family harmony all around (most of the time )
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I completely agree here! It's them not u. Your husband should have a talk with his family and outright say that because of their insecurities u feel u cannot socialize and how unacceptable it is to exclude u. They need to be more secure in themselves and their marriages. Don't put yourself back in your shell, I know how hard it is to come back out! To me it sounds like u have done nothing wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

peacem said:


> SIL (who has the flirted with husband) has FG's once a year and sometimes a family party for her 2 children. We found out that we were never invited to any of them. When we asked another family member they said it was because of me. Because I flirt.
> 
> So we ALL got excluded. It makes me feel very guilty - but I am not sure why? :frown2:


And you are certain you were "laughing at his lame jokes and talking with him" at a previous FG? 
That is being friendly, not flirtatious. 

Diana's suggestion to determine what EXACTLY the SILs perceived is a good one, depending on where you are at emotionally with their reactions towards you. It might be easier for your husband to inquire. 

Is it possible the husband of your SIL had the impression you were "coming on to him" (weird) and reported back to SIL? Trying to give your husband's family the benefit of the doubt, but my impression is still that they are 40 year old "Mean Girls" and thus insecure.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

KrisAmiss said:


> Are you sharing your friendliness with the rest of the family?


I'm friendly with everyone. The only thing I know I do sometimes is I try too hard to be friendly. It's the way I have been raised - if you are nice people are nice to you. Though as I get older I see it doesn't always work that way and sometimes I get taken advantage of.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> And you are certain you were "laughing at his lame jokes and talking with him" at a previous FG?


MIL was ranting about pornography (its her favourite subject and often brings the mood down). She said she had been to the pornography tent at Christian camp. BIL said to me 'Pornography tent? Her church sounds very forward thinking!' 

Nobody found it funny but me (because they are very conservative Christians) and I laughed a bit too much and said '...you do make me laugh.'. Got evil eye from SIL#1, so got up to leave and I heard SIL#2 say '...she better not try that with my husband!'. It was almost loud enough for me to deliberately hear.

I shrugged it off and forgot about it.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I thought of the movie "Run away Bride" when I read your post - where Julia Roberts friend talks to her about how she acts with her husband. And then says now that you know - maybe you can not do it anymore. (Something like that)

It's hard to know how we come across to other people. But clearly your SIL's are insecure about something. The only way to find out what their perceptions are - is to talk to them. But if they won't talk to you about it - there is really nothing you can do. Personally, I think you should just be yourself and not worry about them. Don't retreat back into a shy state. Your behavior is not bothering your husband so I would not worry too much about it!


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

Perhaps they marry pornography and you. They're uptight and you're easy going. You and your BIL are the only ones having fun.

I must say though, my exSIL would complain that we didn't include her. She was a drunk, was almost always embroiled in a fight with my B to the discomfort of everyone, and contributed very little. In defense of your probably ridiculous SILs, clear the air. It may seem like you're the outsider - and you are - but they may have a point. Ask and geniunely listen. They may have a good point and you can grow and be a better person. A friendly person would.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

KrisAmiss said:


> Perhaps they marry pornography and you. They're uptight and you're easy going. You and your BIL are the only ones having fun.
> 
> I must say though, my exSIL would complain that we didn't include her. She was a drunk, was almost always embroiled in a fight with my B to the discomfort of everyone, and contributed very little. In defense of your probably ridiculous SILs, clear the air. It may seem like you're the outsider - and you are - but they may have a point. Ask and geniunely listen. They may have a good point and you can grow and be a better person. A friendly person would.


A few years ago I asked SIL#2 if I had done something to offend her when she excluded my name from an invitation to her child's birthday. She raged at me for ten minutes (most of what she said was completely bizarre, like not even remotely close to any kind of reality) and told me that everyone in the family hated me. My husband called around his family to get to the bottom of it and nobody knew what she was talking about. 

So..I don't try and talk it through with her anymore, its very a risky strategy. 

TBH I think my SIL#2 has borderline personality disorder. When we got engaged she had a meltdown and accused me of tearing her family apart (before that we had gotten on very well - going out, shopping etc). She also told me the day before my wedding that a cousin 'hated me' - as a friendly warning, which was odd because he was always very friendly. When I asked him, he had no clue what she was talking about, in fact we got along very well. When I had my first child she wanted to be her nanny - when I said I wasn't going back to work so didn't need a nanny, she had a melt down and said I was 'pulling her niece away from her'. She thought she was my daughter mother. When we moved to the next village she told everyone it was 'to take her brother away from her'. 

I found it all very baffling and strange.

SIL#1 is the more reasonable of the two but she gets manipulated and dragged into the drama and they both become as bad as each other.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> Telling your SIL that her man is attractive is absolutely a COMPLIMENT to them both...if she is a secure and confident person.
> 
> I "flirt" with friends' husbands frequently. *It's my job as their friend to remind them what wonderful men they married. And my friends to the same for me.*
> 
> Don't beat yourself up. You've done nothing wrong.


How did you come to the conclusion that it is your job as a friend to remind them what wonderful men they have married?


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> How did you come to the conclusion that it is your job as a friend to remind them what wonderful men they have married?


I don't want to thread jack, if you'd like to start a separate post I'm happy to elaborate.

To clarify-
I believe we should support our friends' and families' marriages. Years ago I stood with many of them and made the vow that I would do so. I take that seriously. Therefore, I compliment and am friendly to my friends' spouses. (I used "flirting" in quotes, I don't believe what Peacem described is flirting.)

They ARE wonderful, honorable men, and so is my husband. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of that, myself included. I remind my friends of these good qualities, for example when they are venting over normal marital issues, and they do the same for me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> I don't want to thread jack, if you'd like to start a separate post I'm happy to elaborate.
> 
> To clarify-
> I believe we should support our friends' and families' marriages. Years ago I stood with many of them and made the vow that I would do so. I take that seriously. Therefore, I compliment and am friendly to my friends' spouses. (I used "flirting" in quotes, I don't believe what Peacem described is flirting.)
> ...


Got it! :smthumbup: All clear now!


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

I can see where my comment might have been misinterpreted @Yeswecan, thank you for allowing me to clarify :smile2:

On a more sinister level, I certainly will also tell a husband if a new shirt looks nice, many times the friend (or sister) and I picked it out together! But seriously, these are 20 year relationships, with no infidelity AFAIK. The marriages are strong because we do indeed support each other and openly discuss issues. And I will tell my friend/sister/SIL how lucky she is that her husband is such a great looking guy. This is just our tribe's dynamic. I'm very grateful for it actually. 

(But MY husband is cuter :wink2


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

peacem said:


> Honestly? He cried laughing....
> 
> He won't even entertain confronting them because it is just very silly to him.
> 
> I didn't see the funny side to it.


Surely he wants to support you and help you sort this out with his sisters? They are his family so he will hopefully have more understanding of what they are upset about. Just laughing and leaving the situation unresolved is a bit of a cop out.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Cultural differences apply within families as well as between entire cultures.

My wife enjoys women flirting with me. She finds it complimentary, as some have observed. Many women do it, and often. 

But she comes from a religious family. Many of her relatives are loathe to even allow the women folk to speak with me at all. It is simply against their cultural morals.

Between the two extremes there are many different groups. We are a melting pot nation, the US anyway. But we haven't melted together all that much. So while it may seem appropriate to some people to have a married woman flirt with a married man who isn't their spouse, in the house just down the street those people would think that is totally inappropriate, and those people might be nice people.

My aunt is from the south, and fairly religious. She seldom speaks with the menfolk. She socializes with the women, and she has nothing in common with the zealots of my wife's family. She's a really nice person. Everybody is different. Instead of attempting to judge by our own standards it is wise to understand other people just don't understand our standards.

My wife seldom flirts with the guys. But, she would flirt with your Sister In Laws. Now, I bet that would really put them off. As I've alluded to before, though, my wife can get into a lot of trouble in public. I have to take her home and spank her!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I think people use the term "flirting" to cover a very wide range of things from simply being friendly, to attempting to seduce someone for actual sex. That makes discussion difficult because people aren't using the same language.
> 
> To me "flirting" is a game where you make the other person almost, but not quite sure that you are very physically attracted to them - but without ever saying so explicitly. If two people are playing, its almost a game of chicken.
> 
> ...


*So true!

And if you need solid concurrence of this sad fact, just ask my RSXW! She'll tell you!*


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> I am pathologically friendly.


What is the ratio of your female friends to male friends? 

I'd said to my wife in college (just my girlfriend at the time) that I was going to hang out with my friends. This is what they kind of looked like as a group:










Then my wife pointed out that these were not my friends and that ALL these women just really enjoyed the fact that I was very flirtatious with them. She told me I had to get rid of them all! I actually talked with one of my college professors about this situation saying that it did not seem fair and he pointed out that my (soon to be) wife was indeed correct. I never realized I was being flirtatious, it was just part of my personality. 

Perhaps you are in the same situation but gender is reversed. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

badsanta said:


> What is the ratio of your female friends to male friends?
> 
> I'd said to my wife in college (just my girlfriend at the time) that I was going to hang out with my friends. This is what they kind of looked like as a group:
> 
> ...


I have one male friend (who is as gay as gay can be), and we were childhood friends. The rest are female. In truth I don't like men all that much, not because they are not decent people, but they intimidate me somewhat. Both my father and much older brother are very dominating, scary types. My mother is a sweet, kind lady. That is her coping style. I specifically remember her telling me as a child '...just be really nice.'. 

Having thought about it some more, I cannot really change who I am but I can be more mindful as to how others may perceive me and perhaps tone down my friendliness (which is sometimes also nervousness). I probably will not see my BIL's again as I am now cast permanently out of the family circle for being the ***** of babylon. But I am also not responsible for other people's insecurities just as they are not responsible for me worrying about. 

My H said to me last night - why on earth are you still worrying about that? He has a point.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> My H said to me last night - why on earth are you still worrying about that? He has a point.


You do know that your husband's behavior actually may be the one exacerbating this situation. 

In the event he has a tendency towards autistic behavior, it is very likely that his conversations with his family members have a tendency to be unfiltered and very straight forth regarding your marriage. I can see him complaining to his brothers that he really struggles with your sexuality and you wanting it all the time and asking them for advice. In turn his brother's may go giggling about it to their spouses.

THEN when your SIL sees you and imagines you as a woman that "can't seem to ever get enough" and she ALSO sees her own husband being very playful around you and giggling. HOLY ****!!!! Of course your SIL would then have some problems and treat you like the ***** of babylon. Her anger is likely fueled by the fact that her husband is the one that can't get enough and she struggles with that in her marriage.

I could be wrong, but just say'n.

I am often guilty about being completely unfiltered around friends and family, and it has made my wife rather furious at me afterwards. 

Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

badsanta said:


> You do know that your husband's behavior actually may be the one exacerbating this situation.
> 
> In the event he has a tendency towards autistic behavior, it is very likely that his conversations with his family members have a tendency to be unfiltered and very straight forth regarding your marriage. I can see him complaining to his brothers that he really struggles with your sexuality and you wanting it all the time and asking them for advice. In turn his brother's may go giggling about it to their spouses.
> 
> ...


An interesting thought but highly unlikely - remember they are conservative Christians where sex is completely taboo. 

I dress in a very feminine way - I wear make-up, prefer skirts and dresses and am generally 'done'. I am fairly confident about wearing colour, a red lipstick for example. My SIL's on the other hand are tomboyish. SIL#1 is actually very beautiful and she chooses to dress in hoodies and jeans - she's sporty, no makeup and pony-tailed hair. SIL#2 is morbidly obese and just wears enormous tracksuits to cover up. Her husband will not allow her to cut her hair because when it was short she looked very masculine, before she got married she only shopped in men's stores. When my daughter was little she called her 'uncle', several times I had to remind her she was 'auntie'. They are who they are - I am who I am. But I sometimes I think my femininity threatens them. (Dare I say it has even crossed my mind that my SIL#2 had a crush on me). 

I remember when we first got married SIL#2 would give me evil eye if me and H were affectionate in public (hand-holding, perching on his knee when there wasn't a chair, if he stroked my hair, peck on the cheek). She looked like she was going to punch me. 

Another memory I have is when SIL#1 fell out with her church friend because she sat next to her husband at a party and talked to him for too long - it seemed like a huge over-reaction to me. She also banned him from swimming the local pool because a man chatted him up in the changing room - he was telling it as a funny story but she was furious. 

I don't know....maybe I think too much.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You might. 

Remember, religious folk have some very rigid rules they must live within. 

I noted in my post about my wife's family thinking it's simply wrong for married people to speak with members of the opposite sex beyond a very cursory hello how are you fine have a good day. That's it. Anything more is taboo. Just totally unacceptable. 

It's so weird, but it is what it is.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Thanks @WilliamM I think that might be just it. I don't always understand their rules because my family were very different. We went to church but my mother was very liberal.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I assume it depends a lot on what religion, too. My wife is a bastard child, but was raised Pentecostal. Her biological father was Mormon, and she tells me Mormon is a lot like Pentecostal.

It was her Mormon half brother who told her she wasn't a woman any more when she had her tubes tied. And her father who helped her sister's ex get her back because he said physical abuse was no reason for her to leave.

They have weird ways of thinking.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I have been in the position where a woman was flirting with my husband in front of me, as well as a few other men, and it wasn't nice


Did you punch her?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> You might.
> 
> Remember, religious folk have some very rigid rules they must live within.
> 
> ...


I find that bizarre and I have been a Christian for 40 years and mixed with Christians from all sorts of chruches. None of them think that way. 
I wouldn't have a close friend of the opposite sex, nor would I flirt, but generally chatting with a man is normal behaviour for us.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> Did you punch her?


 Felt like it,:surprise: but husband had a word with her about it first. :smile2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

peacem said:


> I have one male friend (who is as gay as gay can be), and we were childhood friends. The rest are female. In truth I don't like men all that much, not because they are not decent people, but they intimidate me somewhat. Both my father and much older brother are very dominating, scary types. My mother is a sweet, kind lady. That is her coping style. I specifically remember her telling me as a child '...just be really nice.'.
> 
> Having thought about it some more, I cannot really change who I am but I can be more mindful as to how others may perceive me and perhaps tone down my friendliness (which is sometimes also nervousness). I probably will not see my BIL's again as I am now cast permanently out of the family circle for being the ***** of babylon. But I am also not responsible for other people's insecurities just as they are not responsible for me worrying about.
> 
> My H said to me last night - why on earth are you still worrying about that? He has a point.


As your husband and the brothers of these ladies, he should be helping you to sort this out. It's all very well saying why are you still worrying about it, but being on bad terms with family is horrible and it needs to be dealt with. I suspect that he is afraid to face them and would rather leave it alone.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My family is mostly Lutheran. I don't recall seeing such rigid behavior in the Lutheran churches in California or Oregon. I've known Catholics, and been to a few Catholic events. I don't recall seeing that there either. 

But wow, going to any of my wife's family events was like going to another country or even another century, or both. And of course Mary would always cause trouble after she married me. I was her get out of jail free card, and for some reason everyone was fairly nice to her as long as she stayed right next to me.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife, Mary, wants me to add that between the two religions she knew as she grew up the first time she heard anybody say sex could be fun was when I said so. I think she exaggerates, because she went to a regular high school, but I can't say for sure. The Pentecosts firmly believe a woman should be able to count how many times she's had sex by how many children she has.

Talking to one of their guys would be enough to get you crucified!


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## Celtic (Apr 7, 2017)

Flirting, or what we perceive to be flirting, is such a freaking minefield in relationships! My now ex-girlfriend made it clear that she didn't like me being too polite or friendly to other women but much like you @peacem, I was always taught to be friendly and to treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. I wouldn't go further than smiling or laughing but even that was considered too much for her liking.

Imagine my surprise then when I attended her works function with her. It turned out that she was extremely flirtatious with many of her male colleagues! She would talk about sexual subjects with them, make flirty jokes and when one told her that he wanted to see her out of her little black dress, her response was simply "buy me some drinks first" with a wink and a smile. Boy did I feel humiliated and her double standards was one of the reasons we broke up.

But these double standards seem to be present in your situation too. Not in the way I'm describing them but as you and others have already alluded to, what's perhaps normal for most people isn't for someone who is ultra conservative or heavily religious. I think this could be the problem and now, sadly, they are closing ranks to support themselves. It does sound like this SIL is the source of the conflict, something must have been brewing for some time but your husband really needs to step up and speak to his own brother (her husband - if I am getting it right?) in order to resolve the situation. Especially as they are excluding you from everything since. That's just silly on their part.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Of course, the possibility exists that your husband is content with not being invited. He didn't notice, or bring it up. He may have looked forward to getting out of those events at some point.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think it's clear that the SILs are not reasonable, rational people, and that the problem is them, not you. Sorry you have to deal with this situation. Maybe your husband knows it's a losing battle to try and have a normal dynamic with his family and that's why he isn't trying to fix the situation. Try to live your life around those people and try not to let their issues get you too down!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@peacem, your intentions are good. 

If people can't accept you as you are, then they should have a very, very small if any presence in your life. Genuine kindness is severely lacking in this world and instead we have overblown FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). Your personality seems to be a very disarming (in a good way) one, and I for one think you should disregard your nutty inlaws' drama. I'd personally want no part of that character-assasinating circus.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Maintain a healthy boundary with the in-laws.

Laughter and a sense of humor are what make life bearable at times...continue to be happy and friendly because that is your personality and it is a blessing. If (when) they make insulting comments, shrug it off with "So sorry you feel that way" and rise above. You can't reason with people riding the crazy train.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> My wife, Mary, wants me to add that between the two religions she knew as she grew up the first time she heard anybody say sex could be fun was when I said so. I think she exaggerates, because she went to a regular high school, but I can't say for sure. The Pentecosts firmly believe a woman should be able to count how many times she's had sex by how many children she has.
> 
> Talking to one of their guys would be enough to get you crucified!


Maybe the pentecostals she knew, but from my experience in the UK of having mixed with Christians from many denominations, that's total nonsense. Read Song of Songs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Thre is a massive difference between flirting and being friendly. I am always friendly to men and women, but I never ever flirt with anyone except my husband. I have heard people say, well I do flirt but that's just me, it's the way I am. That's is so not true. We can all control the way we act. 
I am not saying that this applies to the OP at all.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I've been to services in various churches.

I don't think you can understand the Pentecosts until you have been to one of their services. It's nothing like other church services. 

Have you seen faith healing and speaking in tongues? Have you seen entire churches full of people surging toward an altar to do anything the preacher asks?

Where do you think Jim Jones learned how to brain wash his congregation? From the Pentecostal Church, that's where.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> There is a massive difference between flirting and being friendly. I am always friendly to men and women, but I never ever flirt with anyone except my husband. I have heard people say, well I do flirt but that's just me, it's the way I am. That's is so not true. We can all control the way we act.


 What many guys consider flirting is different than what many women think is flirting. Thus even if a woman thinks that she is controlling her actions so as not to flirt, the guy may think that she is flirting with him anyways. If a woman looks a guy in the eye as they talk, finds what he says truly interesting, and laughs at his jokes because she finds them to be really funny, many men will think that she is interested in them and is thus flirting; if she touches him anywhere however innocently, many will believe that this confirms it. Should she talk to a man that she finds attractive (even in the back of her mind), if she is looking him in the eye he will be able to see her pupils as they subconsciously dilate confirming to him that she is attracted to him even though she did not consciously take any action to flirt with him. The more attractive a woman is, the more a guy will be looking to see if she is flirting, with the odds of him viewing her actions as flirting increasing with the level of her attractiveness, and with an unattractive woman being viewed as one of the guys almost incapable of being viewed as flirting. Bottom line: a woman does not have to knowingly be flirting for a man to perceive her as flirting.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

peacem said:


> So my question is what constitutes flirting?
> 
> I feel I give off a flirtation vibes without being aware of it.
> 
> What do you make of it all?


You may be giving off vibes and it might be in your body language. What constitutes flirting versus harmless banter versus being friendly and approachable, has and will, generate different responses. If this is something you aren't comfortable with, then be aware of it. If this is who you are and what you're about, then embrace it. Healthy boundaries and respect being a given with this advise. And your husband is obviously comfortable with how you interact with others. Aside from the in-laws, has this cropped up with others in your life? 


A friend's husband made a comment to me. I took a sip of my drink then looked at him surprised, 'Oh..!' It hadn't registered at first. He said 'It took you a minute'. I told him plainly it was unexpected. Friend came back into room, I forgot about it. Learned they're divorcing and his comment came back to mind. I mentioned it to hubs. He said I'd been hit on. I still considered it a throw-away comment. He felt when it comes to us/me, nothing is a throw-away comment.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Let's see... Late 40s no-ring woman at Meijer self checkout... very good looking... Black clingy summer dress going all the way to the floor... Ample display of, ehem, goods. Engaged me in conversation several times as she struggled to use the self checkout machine. I helped her a couple of times and was rewarded with an even more ample visual of, ehem, goods. Too bad my wife (equally good looking despite a decade older) was next to me, busy reading tabloid accounts of aliens living in the White House, completely oblivious to her surroundings​.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Flirting is when someone is trying to attract the opposite sex. Being friendly is being polite, and how you would act with someone you are not trying to attract.

I do think charm is cultural and even geographical. Southern charm is taught at a young age, but women (and men) who have this skill use it on both sexes and with the elderly.


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