# Dreaded newcomer



## Manic_mama

Hello All! So about 18 months ago I discovered my husband was having a very steamy emotional/sexting relationship with his female coworker of six years. My guess is the inappropriate part of their relationship was about two years long. FYI, he continues to work with her although they no longer communicate. At least, that’s what I am told. 

My husband liked to drink and spent the majority of his free time in bars. When he was home he was either working outside or playing games on his phone. I was busy raising our daughters which he took little interest in unless he wanted to hand out punishment for something that pissed him off. I tried to express these issues but it was never well received. Anyway, he and the coworker worked on many projects together and had lots of things in common outside of work as well.

I was never the jealous type because my husband was an ass in some aspects but cheating was something he’d never do!🙄 I actually felt comfortable with their friendship that spilled outside of work hours via texting about their common hobbies because I was confident she was a good influence. Very involved PTA mom like myself, devoted to her kids, treasurer, Bible school teacher and very active member at her church. 

We’d buy from each other’s Kids fundraising and she’d share things with me via my husband to help me out. Like recipes, great places to buy my spring flowers and things she was doing with her PTA that mine might want to try. Zero cause for suspension there, right? Turns out she was confiding in my husband how hers wasn’t interested in having sex with her and was basically an alcoholic jerk. My husband confided in her about our woes as well. 

One thing lead to another and bam she was sending him semi nude photos, lots of sexting and mutual masturbation. When I discovered it there were talks of her masturbating in the back seat of his car while my husband drove her to lunch so she could relax because she was just such a busy woman. They also had several alone lunch dates, I was aware of those too. They were coworkers, I had no issues with that at all, they’re professionals and lots of times their boss went along too. Boss is also a female and her and the AP are friends. The boss unknowingly and unintentionally fostered their relationship. Husband quit drinking on day of discovery and goes out very little now. Doesn’t do a whole lot to rebuild our marriage, he still works with her even though it’s brought up daily how I absolutely do not approve of it. 

It’s over so I shouldn’t have an issue with it, that was backed up by our marriage counselor. We don’t go to her anymore. He is very casually “looking for another job”. He has been with his company for 18 years and has it pretty good there. Ugh, this was not how it was supposed to be. Basically, I am stuck, I refuse to disrupt my daughters because my husband is a selfish jerk. I go along for the most part with a few blowouts here and there out of frustration for his lack of empathy and remorse for what he choose to do. Anyway here I am to vent so I can release all of this. I mostly keep it inside, very few people know, to project our family image.


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## bobert

Manic_mama said:


> Basically, I am stuck, I refuse to disrupt my daughters because my husband is a selfish jerk. I go along for the most part with a few blowouts here and there out of frustration for his lack of empathy and remorse for what he choose to do. Anyway here I am to vent so I can release all of this. I mostly keep it inside, very few people know, to project our family image.


You are not stuck, @Manic_mama. You are choosing to stay. The question is, why are you choosing to stay?

You say that you don't want to disrupt your daughter's, but is this really better for them? Is THIS the type of marriage that you want your daughter's to see, and eventually have? Children are better off being from a broken home, than living in one. Trust me, they pick up on far more than you think they do. 

You say that you want to protect your family image, but that has already been shattered. No amount of lying and pretending will change that. All of the couple's that you think have perfect, happy lives, I guarantee you they do not. Why is the "family image" more important than your happiness? You need to stop caring about what other people think and start caring about yourself.

It is highly unlikely that your husband will ever change or find a new job. Why would he? You've let it go on for 18 months already. So is this really what you want?

Do you want to wake up in 5, 10, 15, 20 years and realize that you just wasted your life on a man who doesn't want you and doesn't respect you? You will never get those years back. 

I am sorry that you are here @Manic_mama, truly. You have the choice to end this though. You need to realize that you've wasted enough time on this man, don't waste anymore.


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## bobert

Manic_mama said:


> he still works with her even though it’s brought up daily how I absolutely do not approve of it. It’s over so I shouldn’t have an issue with it, that was backed up by our marriage counselor. We don’t go to her anymore.


Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.


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## Manic_mama

bobert said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> he still works with her even though it’s brought up daily how I absolutely do not approve of it. It’s over so I shouldn’t have an issue with it, that was backed up by our marriage counselor. We don’t go to her anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.
Click to expand...


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## Manic_mama

Manic_mama said:


> bobert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> he still works with her even though it’s brought up daily how I absolutely do not approve of it. It’s over so I shouldn’t have an issue with it, that was backed up by our marriage counselor. We don’t go to her anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Geez!! I couldn’t figure out how to reply!!!😂
That’s just a small slice of the terrible guidance our marriage counselor handed us. Spent thousands on her but I was under the impression she knew what she was doing. She basically gave my husband a green light for what he did but then would look at me and say “I am not saying what he did was the right choice but your marriage was in trouble. What did you expect?” Ummm.... for my husband to stop drinking, stop spending hundreds of dollars a week in bars and take part in the life of his family!!! She also told me he felt like an outsider because the girls and I just went and did our thing. He needed companionship so he sought out the other woman. She asked if I was really all that surprised. Well, yes, actually I was!!! Was I supposed to drag myself and our daughters to the bar to see him? 

You’re right, I am choosing to be “stuck”. My daughters are old enough that they know the deal, minus the infidelity. My oldest daughter would never speak to him again. Is it sad? Absolutely!!! I was raised by a single mom and it sucked! My mom had to work her ass to provide for us and rarely got to see her. My time with my daughters is everything to me!!! If I need to I’ll reevaluate in time. I will never ever enter another relationship. I’d rather be single and know I’ll never experience that betrayal again. If my husband does it again it definitely won’t be a shocker like it was the first time. Well, the first time during marriage. And I’ve wasted lots of time, we’ve been together for 26 years. It’s all I know. I’ve made peace with that.

In response to the family image, that’s for my daughters too. I don’t want that mess for them to deal with. Otherwise, I’d have no problem exposing the Bible school teacher and my husband. Also the other woman’s children. Although, I did tell her husband.


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## Rlc307

I think this is a really terrible situation and I can guarantee that most of us on here are probably going to put ourselves in your shoes (just based on what we know) and tell you to hit the road. And I realize that it's hard to do when you have spent that amount of time on someone and have kids to think about.
My problem with your story is that I have a hard time watching anyone settle and I feel like that's what you are doing at this point. Based on what you have said, besides your husband actually making the effort to go to marriage counseling, is he actually trying? Was he even sorry? I feel like he felt justified in doing what he did and just received confirmation of his justifications by that crappy councilor. I just put myself in a situation like that and I feel like you won't be able to move passed it. Like you are settling with this nasty issue that was never really resolved and you think you'll just accept it and keep the family appearance. But I can almost promise you it's going to eat you up inside and you'll be living with someone you can't trust.
I've done this myself and I just couldn't let go of it.


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## 3Xnocharm

It WILL happen again because he isnt remorseful and isnt making the effort to fix what he screwed up. Only next time it may be full blown physical. (not sure I buy that THIS one wasnt!) Will you stay and allow that as well? Think of the example you are setting for your girls.. would you want them to stay with a man like this?? What will they think of you once the truth comes out? That you stuck around after learning the truth of what their father did to you and that you used them as your excuse to do so?


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## Manic_mama

Rlc307 said:


> I think this is a really terrible situation and I can guarantee that most of us on here are probably going to put ourselves in your shoes (just based on what we know) and tell you to hit the road. And I realize that it's hard to do when you have spent that amount of time on someone and have kids to think about.
> My problem with your story is that I have a hard time watching anyone settle and I feel like that's what you are doing at this point. Based on what you have said, besides your husband actually making the effort to go to marriage counseling, is he actually trying? Was he even sorry? I feel like he felt justified in doing what he did and just received confirmation of his justifications by that crappy councilor. I just put myself in a situation like that and I feel like you won't be able to move passed it. Like you are settling with this nasty issue that was never really resolved and you think you'll just accept it and keep the family appearance. But I can almost promise you it's going to eat you up inside and you'll be living with someone you can't trust.
> I've done this myself and I just couldn't let go of it.


I 100% know I am settling, 100%!!! Do I think he’s sorry, nope! I think he’s sorry he got caught because he got sloppy and too comfortable with my trust. You’re right, I won’t get past it. I am loyal as can be!! I was in the same ****ty marriage, due to his drinking and lack of interest in actually being a husband and father, but I never even considered cheating for a second. 

We do not live near any family so the brunt of raising our girls was 100% on me. It would have been nice to have a break every now and then. He’d FaceTime my daughter to help her with math from the bar!!!! Although, being a mom has been the greatest honor of my life even if it was difficult at times. I felt so bad he was missing it but he just didn’t care. When he was around he was usually pissed off and annoyed by everything the girls did. So it was probably for the best he wasn’t here much anyway.😒
It is most definitely a terrible situation but for now I am not going anywhere. Will I regret it? More than likely but I’ve already wasted most of my life with him. 
Although I don’t necessarily think he is a narcissist he was raised by two narcissistic parents. I should have run for my life!!!!


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## 3Xnocharm

Sounds to me like your girls would probably welcome you divorcing him.


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## arbitrator

*Time to pay legal counsel an extended visit!*


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## Manic_mama

3Xnocharm said:


> It WILL happen again because he isnt remorseful and isnt making the effort to fix what he screwed up. Only next time it may be full blown physical. (not sure I buy that THIS one wasnt!) Will you stay and allow that as well? Think of the example you are setting for your girls.. would you want them to stay with a man like this?? What will they think of you once the truth comes out? That you stuck around after learning the truth of what their father did to you and that you used them as your excuse to do so?


I do worry about that and the fact that I allowed him to disrespect me by continually to work with her. They no longer work on projects together but they sit 50 ft from each other!!! He says they don’t talk but I don’t know. I do believe it didn’t get physical but only because she wouldn’t allow it. If she’d initiated it I am sure he wouldn’t have said no. She was the one that suggested they mutually masturbate via text to see who could finish faster. She called it racing. He tried to get her to FaceTime but she wouldn’t do it. 
My daughter has four years until she graduates I am content to stay definitely until then.


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## Manic_mama

arbitrator said:


> *Time to pay legal counsel an extended visit!*[/QUOTE
> 
> Nah, he’d give me whatever I wanted. Although, just incase I kept copies of their texts.


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## Casual Observer

Manic_mama said:


> In response to the family image, that’s for my daughters too. I don’t want that mess for them to deal with. Otherwise, I’d have no problem exposing the Bible school teacher and my husband. Also the other woman’s children. Although, I did tell her husband.


How did that go (talking with her husband)? 

Also, what has intimacy with your husband been like, historically? Prior, during and now? Was he looking for something that he wasn't getting at home? If so, had this been addressed previously via counseling or conversation even?

(Added later- This wasn't meant to blame OP. It was just to try and get her husband's view of things. Rule out stuff that always comes up in these threads. Find out if there had been some issues previously.)


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## 3Xnocharm

Casual Observer said:


> How did that go (talking with her husband)?
> 
> Also, what has intimacy with your husband been like, historically? Prior, during and now? *Was he looking for something that he wasn't getting at home? If so, had this been addressed previously via counseling or conversation even?*


SERIOUSLY, Cas??!


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## Rlc307

I really do understand. When I was young I was married to a complete jerk. Actually kind of sounds just like your husband and I guess this is why your post struck a nerve with me, LOL. I see you over there, quietly planning your get away when the time is right. Different circumstances but I get it, I've had to do the same. He absolutely is only sorry that he got caught and I can tell you that the chances that more happened that you don't know about are high. But what you do know and his actions from this are enough.The only thing I do have to say is that I hope your relationship doesn't effect your girls in the long run. I, too feel like you should leave but you have decided to stay and that is your right to do so. However, they might know more than you think, and please don't take offense to what I'm saying but it's very important to show our girls how to be treated as women and what a healthy relationship really is.


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## Manic_mama

Casual Observer said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> In response to the family image, that’s for my daughters too. I don’t want that mess for them to deal with. Otherwise, I’d have no problem exposing the Bible school teacher and my husband. Also the other woman’s children. Although, I did tell her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> How did that go (talking with her husband)?
> 
> I sent him a letter with copies of the texts between her and I. I didn’t send the ones between my husband and her to spare him. I gave him a very watered down version and just apologized.
> 
> Sex was here and there as we had two young children and he was never home. When he was he was either drunk or sleeping or both!!!!
> 
> When we first reconciled it was great, I was so hopeful. He’s slipping back into his old ways minus the drinking. I am no longer interested in parenting him. He needs to take some initiative and figure **** out. He’d do counseling but currently he’s working 69 plus hours a week. You know, at the place she’s also employed. She works a reduced schedule so she’s not always there.
> 
> We were never in counseling prior to the affair although we most definitely needed it!!!
> 
> Also, what has intimacy with your husband been like, historically? Prior, during and now? Was he looking for something that he wasn't getting at home? If so, had this been addressed previously via counseling or conversation even?
Click to expand...


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## Betrayedone

Kick his ass to the curb, lawyer up and take him for everything you can get....Are you kidding me? You don't have a life.....


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## Manic_mama

Rlc307 said:


> I really do understand. When I was young I was married to a complete jerk. Actually kind of sounds just like your husband and I guess this is why your post struck a nerve with me, LOL. I see you over there, quietly planning your get away when the time is right. Different circumstances but I get it, I've had to do the same. He absolutely is only sorry that he got caught and I can tell you that the chances that more happened that you don't know about are high. But what you do know and his actions from this are enough.The only thing I do have to say is that I hope your relationship doesn't effect your girls in the long run. I, too feel like you should leave but you have decided to stay and that is your right to do so. However, they might know more than you think, and please don't take offense to what I'm saying but it's very important to show our girls how to be treated as women and what a healthy relationship really is.


I hear you and no offense taken what so ever!!! I know what’s what!! I know he’s not sorry for doing it it was fun, he’s sorry he got caught. He also destroyed his camaraderie at his work because his team can no longer work in a group setting for team building or outings. He did tell his supervisor and asked not to work directly with her anymore. He has been there for 18 years. Screwed his self out of any promotions due to the fact he’d be her supervisor. He messed up so many things.

My mom left a cheater (my father) with three trash bags of belongings and busted her ass her whole life! It was rough at times and we struggled financially. My mom has fought two bouts of cancer and a heat attack with open heart surgery and still works at 73 because she has too!!! My dad was a serial cheater. She’s my hero!! 

I do fear my daughters will be disappointed in me. Hell, I am disappointed I didn’t go beat her ass!! I’ve encountered her multiple times since d day but I’ve chosen not to verbally confront her. Via text I told her my true feelings. She’s trash and not worth me stooping to her level. I did tell one friend that is in her PTA so I am sure they all know. Gives me a bit of satisfaction. 😂

I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!


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## Casual Observer

3Xnocharm said:


> SERIOUSLY, Cas??!


You're reading that as if I'm saying it's justification. Not the case. I want her view on it. It's not an accusation. This normally comes up pretty quickly in a thread like this, but not here, not yet.


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## Casual Observer

Manic_mama said:


> I hear you and no offense taken what so ever!!! I know what’s what!! I know he’s not sorry for doing it it was fun, he’s sorry he got caught. He also destroyed his camaraderie at his work because his team can no longer work in a group setting for team building or outings. He did tell his supervisor and asked not to work directly with her anymore. He has been there for 18 years. Screwed his self out of any promotions due to the fact he’d be her supervisor. He messed up so many things.
> 
> My mom left a cheater (my father) with three trash bags of belongings and busted her ass her whole life! It was rough at times and we struggled financially. My mom has fought two bouts of cancer and a heat attack with open heart surgery and still works at 73 because she has too!!! My dad was a serial cheater. She’s my hero!!
> 
> I do fear my daughters will be disappointed in me. Hell, I am disappointed I didn’t go beat her ass!! I’ve encountered her multiple times since d day but I’ve chosen not to verbally confront her. Via text I told her my true feelings. She’s trash and not worth me stooping to her level. I did tell one friend that is in her PTA so I am sure they all know. Gives me a bit of satisfaction. 😂
> 
> I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!


I do read into this a small degree of hope. First, he stopped drinking. That's a pretty big thing. Does he have help with this/does he attend AA meetings? Second, his request to not work directly with his former EA partner is actually pretty significant too. As you said, it screwed him out of promotions. It's not nearly as solid as leaving for another place of work entirely, but it's not complete rug sweeping either.

It sounds like you've never had counseling, but realize you should have. It is not too late to try. It may be too late for success, but you won't know if you don't try. You're already thinking you'll be in this "prison" for another 4 years or so? Getting IC and MC going soon won't preclude that option. The hope is that it might bring clarity to your choice, with the slight possibility of reconciliation.


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## Manic_mama

3Xnocharm said:


> Casual Observer said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did that go (talking with her husband)?
> 
> Also, what has intimacy with your husband been like, historically? Prior, during and now? *Was he looking for something that he wasn't getting at home? If so, had this been addressed previously via counseling or conversation even?*
> 
> 
> 
> SERIOUSLY, Cas??!
Click to expand...

It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!


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## Casual Observer

Manic_mama said:


> It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!


If he has continued both the verbal and emotional abusiveness, you have no obligation to go for counseling or reconciliation or any other unicorn-like possibility I mentioned. If he's been gradually changing for the better, even if still not-so-great yet, then maybe. But if you've seen change without improvement, if there's nothing to give you hope, then consider an honest discussion with him about the future and the need to move on. Figure out what a few years together "for the kids" actually means, and if that makes sense or not.


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## pastasauce79

Are you staying with your husband because of financial security? Do you work?

I bet your daughters don't have a good image of their dad anyway but them learning their mom has respect for herself could be huge in their lives. 

You have a husband that has had an affair, he is not affectionate, he doesn't spend time with his family and has no interest in doing so. He also drinks and works a lot. What kind of marriage is that? And what is it teaching your daughters about loving relationships? 

You wanting to stay married to someone like your husband makes absolutely no sense to me.


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## MattMatt

bobert said:


> Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.


:iagree:

And weird stuff like that from a qualified counsellor is one of the reasons why I never took my counselling qualifications any further than I did.


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## Manic_mama

Casual Observer said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you and no offense taken what so ever!!! I know what’s what!! I know he’s not sorry for doing it it was fun, he’s sorry he got caught. He also destroyed his camaraderie at his work because his team can no longer work in a group setting for team building or outings. He did tell his supervisor and asked not to work directly with her anymore. He has been there for 18 years. Screwed his self out of any promotions due to the fact he’d be her supervisor. He messed up so many things.
> 
> My mom left a cheater (my father) with three trash bags of belongings and busted her ass her whole life! It was rough at times and we struggled financially. My mom has fought two bouts of cancer and a heat attack with open heart surgery and still works at 73 because she has too!!! My dad was a serial cheater. She’s my hero!!
> 
> I do fear my daughters will be disappointed in me. Hell, I am disappointed I didn’t go beat her ass!! I’ve encountered her multiple times since d day but I’ve chosen not to verbally confront her. Via text I told her my true feelings. She’s trash and not worth me stooping to her level. I did tell one friend that is in her PTA so I am sure they all know. Gives me a bit of satisfaction. 😂
> 
> I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!
> 
> 
> 
> I do read into this a small degree of hope. First, he stopped drinking. That's a pretty big thing. Does he have help with this/does he attend AA meetings? Second, his request to not work directly with his former EA partner is actually pretty significant too. As you said, it screwed him out of promotions. It's not nearly as solid as leaving for another place of work entirely, but it's not complete rug sweeping either.
> 
> It sounds like you've never had counseling, but realize you should have. It is not too late to try. It may be too late for success, but you won't know if you don't try. You're already thinking you'll be in this "prison" for another 4 years or so? Getting IC and MC going soon won't preclude that option. The hope is that it might bring clarity to your choice, with the slight possibility of reconciliation.
Click to expand...

Actually, we were in counseling for over a year! Worst therapist ever!!! Told me the affair was over so I should have No issues with them continuing to work at the same firm. Also told me I needed to get some hobbies and mind my own business!!! Excuse me?!! I am pretty sure my husband entertaining another female is most certainly my business!!! It was bizarre at times but I thought I was just not thinking clearly because I was a mess!! She didn’t really go into anything. She was more interested in my daughters and it annoyed me because she was blaming my oldest daughter For the down fall of our marriage. No Miss therapist lady it was The drinking everyday and spending up to 20 hrs a week in bars on top of working 40-60 hrs a week. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars spent weekly on alcohol and food. I was powerless and it’s sucked. My girls are 22 months apart so for many years I was knee deep in child rearing. My husband said I was an amazing mother so he didn’t want to interfere and mess things up!!! That’s why he stayed away. I will admit I am a great mom and even though my daughters are teens they’re pretty darn amazing too. ❤

I accidentally discovered the texts between them as he and I were getting ready to go to a friends house for a 50th wedding anniversary party. I had never known the password to his phone but I thought it was mainly to keep our daughters out of it. For some reason the night before he handed me his phone while driving and told me to check something giving me his password. It was on the table the next morning and I honestly don’t remember what I picked it up for, it was something trivial like a recipe or directions. My phone was in the bedroom charging. I honestly can’t remember. When I unlocked it it was open to their text exchange and the first thing I saw was a photo of her sitting at her desk in a skirt. it was taken so you could see up it. Shocking is not even the right word! A bit of sexy banter between the two of them. So naturally I took a seat and went through the entire thread. It devastating!!! 

When I confronted him very soon after he was basically speechless except for blaming me for the affair. I lost my **** in our driveway!!! He quit drinking immediately!!! His choice, hasn’t had a drink in 18 months. He doesn’t use AA or anything like that. Sorry for the rant!!!


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## Manic_mama

MattMatt said:


> bobert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, that marriage counselor was an idiot. Sadly, too many are.
> 
> 
> 
> <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/iagree.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Iagree" ></a>
> 
> And weird stuff like that from a qualified counsellor is one of the reasons why I never took my counselling qualifications any further than I did.
Click to expand...

I have my Bachelors and spent many years as a sexual assault counselor so I am familiar with the process. It’s exactly why I never went any further either. I am sure there are amazing ones out there. The three we tried were not. One we stayed with for over a year. It was more destructive than anything.


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## Manic_mama

pastasauce79 said:


> Are you staying with your husband because of financial security? Do you work?
> 
> I bet your daughters don't have a good image of their dad anyway but them learning their mom has respect for herself could be huge in their lives.
> 
> You have a husband that has had an affair, he is not affectionate, he doesn't spend time with his family and has no interest in doing so. He also drinks and works a lot. What kind of marriage is that? And what is it teaching your daughters about loving relationships?
> 
> You wanting to stay married to someone like your husband makes absolutely no sense to me.


He no longer drinks and only goes out once a week if even that to play pool. He does work a lot but that depends on the current project he is working on.

I do not currently work but to put him through college there were times I worked three jobs at a time. I earned my keep for damn sure!!!! I am a homemaker, like meals from scratch, that kind of stuff. It’s what I enjoy doing and I am available for my daughters for activities, appointments etc. We have no family in the area it’s just us. So no grandma or grandpa to help out. He makes enough that I don’t have to work but I helped get us here. Plus if I wanted to leave I could. He’d help and I am employable, it’d just be difficult. I have four years until my oldest goes to college. He’s at least manageable now even if it’s not ideal.

You’re right it’s a ****ty example for my daughters but I didn’t choose it to be this way. I hope they’ll see some day I did the best I could given my circumstances.


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## Manic_mama

Casual Observer said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
> 
> 
> 
> If he has continued both the verbal and emotional abusiveness, you have no obligation to go for counseling or reconciliation or any other unicorn-like possibility I mentioned. If he's been gradually changing for the better, even if still not-so-great yet, then maybe. But if you've seen change without improvement, if there's nothing to give you hope, then consider an honest discussion with him about the future and the need to move on. Figure out what a few years together "for the kids" actually means, and if that makes sense or not.
Click to expand...

He definitely has made drastic improvements but in my eyes it what he should have been doing before. So no award for not drinking and being at home with your family. He needs to leave his current place of employment because she still works there in the same department of only about 8 people so it used to be a tight knit group. Gotta work on empathy and boundaries too!!!


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## Rlc307

So exactly what kind of advice are you searching for in the situation at hand? What kind of help or answers are you looking for? I came back to read your replies and I am kind of getting confused while I read on. You have made it clear that even though he has quit drinking, it doesn't matter because of his drinking habits in the past. You have made it clear that even though he works a few feet from this woman, you are not leaving. What exactly is it that you want? I understand that you worked hard and enjoy your stay at home mom status but what happens after your girls both go off to college in 4 years? Are you going to try and work it out with him? Or are you going to face it in 4 years and go back to work and make it on your own? Did you just need to vent?


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## Rlc307

Everyone needs to vent and it's okay. But I'm just trying to get an understanding of how we can help and what answers you seek.


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## Casual Observer

Manic_mama said:


> He definitely has made drastic improvements but in my eyes it what he should have been doing before. So no award for not drinking and being at home with your family. He needs to leave his current place of employment because she still works there in the same department of only about 8 people so it used to be a tight knit group. Gotta work on empathy and boundaries too!!!


Sorry for the questions coming up, because some of them are personal-

- Is there any spark left to rekindle? Could you see any chance of falling in love with him again?
- Were the earlier counseling sessions while he was still drinking? If so, do you think it possible that counseling might be more transparent and more effective today than it was back then?
- You said you were a sexual abuse counselor yourself. Is there a chance you cut the MC too much slack out of respect? That things would be different this time around?
- We know why you would like to leave the marriage. What reasons would your husband want to _stay_ married?
- Is the changing-jobs thing a litmus test? If he did that, you'd invest your time & effort into giving him another chance?
- If the choice for him was to change jobs but it would require a pay cut significant enough that it would hamper your ability to move out, would that be ok? 

And finally, most come to a place like TAM with an idea in mind, an outcome they hope to see support for. If so, what is/was it?

Thanks-


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## pastasauce79

Manic_mama said:


> He no longer drinks and only goes out once a week if even that to play pool. He does work a lot but that depends on the current project he is working on.
> 
> I do not currently work but to put him through college there were times I worked three jobs at a time. I earned my keep for damn sure!!!! I am a homemaker, like meals from scratch, that kind of stuff. It’s what I enjoy doing and I am available for my daughters for activities, appointments etc. We have no family in the area it’s just us. So no grandma or grandpa to help out. He makes enough that I don’t have to work but I helped get us here. Plus if I wanted to leave I could. He’d help and I am employable, it’d just be difficult. I have four years until my oldest goes to college. He’s at least manageable now even if it’s not ideal.
> 
> You’re right it’s a ****ty example for my daughters but I didn’t choose it to be this way. I hope they’ll see some day I did the best I could given my circumstances.


I understand you completely.

I'm also a homemaker. I work about 10 hrs a week. I'm available for my kids, I like to cook from scratch, volunteer at their school, etc. 

For many years we didn't have family close by. It was just the 4 of us. We moved closer to his family but they have their own lives. After living away for so long, we are used to figuring things out on our own.

My mother was also a homemaker, she still is. I don't understand why my parents are still together. My dad also had an affair. Their marriage is full of issues, and my mom stayed with him (financial stability.) I wish I could go back in time and tell her that things are not going to get better.

I appreciate all the sacrifices my parents made for my siblings and I. But I really hate they sacrificed their happiness as a couple. 

As an insurance policy, (because you don't know what the future holds)why don't you find out what you are entitled in case of a divorce? (Spousal support, child support.)What about finding a part time job? I know it's scary, I know it's getting out of your comfort zone, but I think it can shake things up in your household. It can show your husband you are serious about changes needed in you and not waiting for him to support you one hundred percent. 

You have options. No one is forcing you to stay with him. You are choosing to stay with him.


----------



## Spicy

> I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!


Tell the church leaders!

If she is a Bible school teacher, as a parent, I would want to know that this cheating hypocrite is the one trying to teach my kids lessons about morality. 

I don’t think known people who are immoral should be in a position to lead anything bible based (personal opinion). 

If you are gonna preach it, be doing your best to live it. Nobody’s perfect, but most married moms are not masterbating in the back of their coworkers car to relieve stress, then going to teach bible school. Seriously! Barf.


----------



## aine

@Manic_mama, you have been dealing with this over the last 18 months, I feel for you. Things will never be the same no matter what you decide to do.
Most here including myself would say dump his ass. However, it is your decision alone. Because you appear to be acquiescing on this incident, he will not be remorseful, why should he really? There have been absolutely no consequences from your end.

You can still implement a number of things even if you choose to stay

1. Do the 180 on him completely
2. Go and get counseling/therapy for yourself, forget him and maybe therapy for your girls if necessary, make him foot the bill, let him know the damage he has caused. Don't hide it.

3. One big mistake you are making is not to expose both of them to the church, friends, family, etc. Go ahead and do it. I do not know why you feel you must cover for him and her and enable them both. Your kids sound big enough to handle it. Shame can do a lot to resolve issues and let people confront their own reality, esp when they are not remorseful. Hiding and covering this is only enabling this behavior. 
As a Christian, you are called to admonish and expose this sort of thing not hide it as it makes you complicit. It is completely wrong to allow an adulterer (OW) to teach bible, talk about the wolf amongst the sheep. Why are you scared?

4. I would now start to build up an escape fund. If he is not doing anything to make things right, you know where you stand. Stand to squirrel away money, buy your own place, etc (are you working?). A day will come when the kids leave and you need to be financially independent and able to walk out the door, if you so choose. Ensure you make that an option for yourself. 

5. Go back to college and get more qualifications if that is useful to you. I did that after years of being a housewife, now I work full time and still working on the money situation, though I might never leave as circumstances have changed somewhat but I know that is always an option and it gives me satisfaction. He knows it too. it is about taking back your power in the marriage. Sometimes the balance of power tends to reside in one side (the H) so the spouse feels entitled to do whatever they want including commit adultery.

6. Keep all evidence of their affair. Ask him to write an outline of the timelines, where they went, etc
Then request he write a no-contact letter to her and insist he leaves this job or you will report both of them to HR. If she is less senior put pressure on her via her H to leave the job.

7. Ask him to leave your bedroom and sleep in the spare room, I hope you already did this.
8. Keep your conversation about household matters, work through your feelings with a counsellor. Don't discuss this with him.

9. Please go and see a lawyer. Maybe when you see the options, your lives would be much happier without him. It seems like he doesn't engage much with the kids anyhow. There is no shame in getting rid of a low down cheater who contributes little to the family life. This was not a one night stand but a continuous affair over a long period of time. Remember that.


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## aine

Manic_mama said:


> I do worry about that and the fact that I allowed him to disrespect me by continually to work with her. They no longer work on projects together but they sit 50 ft from each other!!! He says they don’t talk but I don’t know. I do believe it didn’t get physical but only because she wouldn’t allow it. If she’d initiated it I am sure he wouldn’t have said no. She was the one that suggested they mutually masturbate via text to see who could finish faster. She called it racing. He tried to get her to FaceTime but she wouldn’t do it.
> My daughter has four years until she graduates I am content to stay definitely until then.


Sorry but do this is getting intimate, just because it wasn't PIV doesn't mean it was not intimate sexually.


----------



## aine

Manic_mama said:


> It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!


WTF! So he couldn't keep it in his pants because he wasn't getting what at home? Talk about blame-shifting! If she is not meeting him at the door with a big smile and a negligee on, it is her fault. I call bull****! Who wants to be nice to a verbally and emotionally abusive POS not alone sleep with him?

He preferred to be in the pub and engaged with a glass of beer than come home and spend time with his family. After a day at work, it was too much effort to come home to engage. My H was like this. It requires effort to help with dinner, homework, bedtime, extracurricular activities and some H would rather be in the office or the pub. The bottom line there are takers and givers and your WH sounds like a taker. None of this is your fault.

if there was a problem in the marriage, he should have sat you down and talked about it, not run off to some piece of trash. Oops forgot, that would also require too much effort. After all he is entitled.


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## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s okay!! My therapist said the same thing!! Actually two different ones. I take no blame for him cheating, non!!! He was a miserable husband that was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. I did not have sexy with him during that time and he knew exactly why!!!
> 
> 
> 
> WTF! So he couldn't keep it in his pants because he wasn't getting what at home? Talk about blame-shifting! If she is not meeting him at the door with a big smile and a negligee on, it is her fault. I call bull****! Who wants to be nice to a verbally and emotionally abusive POS not alone sleep with him?
> 
> He preferred to be in the pub and engaged with a glass of beer than come home and spend time with his family. After a day at work, it was too much effort to come home to engage. My H was like this. It requires effort to help with dinner, homework, bedtime, extracurricular activities and some H would rather be in the office or the pub. The bottom line there are takers and givers and your WH sounds like a taker. None of this is your fault.
> 
> if there was a problem in the marriage, he should have sat you down and talked about it, not run off to some piece of trash. Oops forgot, that would also require too much effort. After all he is entitled.
Click to expand...

Thank you, girl!!! I need that validation sometimes and I think that’s exactly why I am here. This is a very heavy thing to carry around. Slap that smile on and pretend everything is okay.

He is most definitely a taker and I am a natural giver. He took extreme advantage of that. I am guilty for allowing him to do so, I made excuses for him. He works hard, he worked hard as a teen and didn’t have that experience like most, he was only 19 when we started dating and we moved in together not real long after. I took on all the responsibility of our daughters, everything. I loved it though being a mom and everything that goes with it was my thing. A partner in crime would have been nice though. He showed up to all the important events even if he slept through most of it. I could never trust him to ever do carpooling because of his drinking, I didn’t trust him.

He told me the ow never *****ed at him and was always there for him. For real???!! She should have been taking care of her young kids and husband instead of mine!!! He had to put no effort into it, she offered it up without him even asking. I get it though her marriage was **** too, alcoholic husband. Why she’d want another one was beyond me! 

He did try to talk about the problems in our marriage but he didn’t want to see that his drinking and abandonment were the problem. It was me just being a *****!!!! I’ll admit, I was definitely a *****.


----------



## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do worry about that and the fact that I allowed him to disrespect me by continually to work with her. They no longer work on projects together but they sit 50 ft from each other!!! He says they don’t talk but I don’t know. I do believe it didn’t get physical but only because she wouldn’t allow it. If she’d initiated it I am sure he wouldn’t have said no. She was the one that suggested they mutually masturbate via text to see who could finish faster. She called it racing. He tried to get her to FaceTime but she wouldn’t do it.
> My daughter has four years until she graduates I am content to stay definitely until then.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but do this is getting intimate, just because it wasn't PIV doesn't mean it was not intimate sexually.
Click to expand...

PIV, not sure what that is? And their relationship was most definitely intimate sexually. Very, very graphic texts that included photos of both of them.


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## Tilted 1

Penis in vagina


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## Manic_mama

Spicy said:


> I’d love to inform someone at her church but that might be a bit too far!!
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the church leaders!
> 
> If she is a Bible school teacher, as a parent, I would want to know that this cheating hypocrite is the one trying to teach my kids lessons about morality.
> 
> I don’t think known people who are immoral should be in a position to lead anything bible based (personal opinion).
> 
> If you are gonna preach it, be doing your best to live it. Nobody’s perfect, but most married moms are not masterbating in the back of their coworkers car to relieve stress, then going to teach bible school. Seriously! Barf.
Click to expand...

They’d be chatting and he’d ask her what she was doing and many times the answer was working on stuff for bible school!!!! 

I am not a religious person so I was so fooled by their friendship. I thought the Bible school teacher has to be making a positive impact on my husband. I actually encouraged their friendship. 😔 He’d tell me they we’re going to lunch together and it gave me comfort that he was spending time with this wholesome person. They’d talk about gardening, camping trips and other positive activities. I was an absolute fool!!!! She took advantage of my trust as well because she knew I liked her and was completely comfortable with their friendship. I’d always have him ask her stuff for me to get her opinion, baking or PTA stuff. She’d send home recipes for me to try!!! She’d hand write any of her personal adaptations on them with a smiley face!!!!! After I found out I had him take them all and drop them on her desk. I definitely didn’t want them any longer. She would buy stuff for my kids fundraisers and I would do the same for hers. What a total mind**** when I found out. As a woman who definitely supports other women I was completely devastated by the betrayal. 

I don’t personally know anyone from her church so I don’t know how I would go about even informing anyone. I do have a friend that has at least one family member that goes there. In the beginning I actually had a letter drafted to send to her church but I just didn’t feel right about sending it. It felt more vengeful than it did informational. I agree as a mom I would not want that person teaching my child at Bible school and I am not even religious!!! From my understanding she is also the treasurer and is a very active member.


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## Tilted 1

Expose expose expose, and let him own it. Is the only real solution.


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## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> Penis in vagina


Duh!!! I should have been able to figure that out pretty easily.


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## Tilted 1

It's ok your stressed, but just take the letter to the head pastor and then it is off of you and on to him, if he's true he will address this.


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## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> It's ok your stressed, but just take the letter to the head pastor and then it is off of you and on to him, if he's true he will address this.


When I informed her husband he asked me to not contact her, him or anyone else regarding this matter. That is one of the main reasons I decided not to go ahead with it. I am going to think on this one. As much as I want her to face the consequences this just seems too much.


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## Manic_mama

Manic_mama said:


> Tilted 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok your stressed, but just take the letter to the head pastor and then it is off of you and on to him, if he's true he will address this.
> 
> 
> 
> When I informed her husband he asked me to not contact her, him or anyone else regarding this matter. That is one of the main reasons I decided not to go ahead with it. I am going to think on this one. As much as I want her to face the consequences this just seems too much.
Click to expand...

Plus, I’d be doing it for revenge, let’s be honest, I feel that’s with ill intentions and makes me feel petty. I am not religious and after being duped by her facade I’ll never trust that again! She uses it as a smokescreen to be a shady person.


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## Tilted 1

No it's not revenge, but the other H trying to rugsweep his marriage, don't make the same mistake. Just because the other H doesn't want it exposed you will never get clousure if you don't do.


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## Tilted 1

Petty is not what you have endured here, you may not want to do this but it's the right thing to do. Even if you reconcile he still has alot of work ahead of him(your husband) to make him accountable for this. Once exposed it will show you what type of man you have and if you can ever trust him again. Your making is sound like you are holding her responsible for everything that went on between them sorry he was the main player in this.


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## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> Petty is not what you have endured here, you may not want to do this but it's the right thing to do. Even if you reconcile he still has alot of work ahead of him(your husband) to make him accountable for this. Once exposed it will show you what type of man you have and if you can ever trust him again. Your making is sound like you are holding her responsible for everything that went on between them sorry he was the main player in this.


Oh, I know he was more than a willing participant. I am not a fool!!! She made the offer and he accepted without hesitation!!! I know he dangled things before the offer too, I am not that naive.
He has told several of his close colleagues because he does plan to leave and he’s a key component to their department so he doesn’t want to leave them in a bind to find a replacement. Plus he likes his coworkers (some a little too much 🙄) . He has a possible offer starting in April/May so his plan is to tell the entire department before he leaves.


----------



## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> No it's not revenge, but the other H trying to rugsweep his marriage, don't make the same mistake. Just because the other H doesn't want it exposed you will never get clousure if you don't do.


But I am trying to justify how it’s my place as a nonbeliever to inform her church. See my dilemma? That’s why rather than an act of religious intention it feels like callused revenge. Hit em where it hurts kind of stuff.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Tilted 1 said:


> No it's not revenge, but the other H trying to rugsweep his marriage, don't make the same mistake. Just because the other H doesn't want it exposed you will never get clousure if you don't do.


You do not know what the husband is doing or what he wants. Her closure is what her husband does and doesn’t do, not what the other spouse does. She did her job, worrying if the the other husband did anything is not her concern.

She exposed to the husband, it is his job to expose to their church.


----------



## Tilted 1

Manic_mama said:


> But I am trying to justify how it’s my place as a nonbeliever to inform her church. See my dilemma? That’s why rather than an act of religious intention it feels like callused revenge. Hit em where it hurts kind of stuff.


It's your place because you were cheated on, and with that have earned the right to expose it matters none if it a church or not. Your even entitled to inform his employment if you so choose. These are the consequences of actions he your H as earne.


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## Tilted 1

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You do not know what the husband is doing or what he wants. Her closure is what her husband does and doesn’t do, not what the other spouse does. She did her job, worrying if the the other husband did anything is not her concern.
> 
> She exposed to the husband, it is his job to expose to their church.


agree l do not know what the other husband is doing, but it matters none l am saying to Manic do not let the other H dictate what Manic should do. But it isn't the the other husband to inform the church Manic has every right to inform the church weather the other betrayed spouse does it or not.


----------



## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> phillybeffandswiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do not know what the husband is doing or what he wants. Her closure is what her husband does and doesn’t do, not what the other spouse does. She did her job, worrying if the the other husband did anything is not her concern.
> 
> She exposed to the husband, it is his job to expose to their church.
> 
> 
> 
> agree l do not know what the other husband is doing, but it matters none l am saying to Manic do not let the other H dictate what Manic should do. But it isn't the the other husband to inform the church Manic has every right to inform the church weather the other betrayed spouse does it or not.
Click to expand...

To be honest I sent h a letter via regular mail. He is not on social media etc. The email “he” responded to me from was her work email. I honestly sent the letter in hopes he’d make her leave the company. She’s the breadwinner though and carries the families insurance. So......
I mean the reason she got involved with my husband is her husband was no longer interested in sex with her and she was looking for some “attention”.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Manic_mama said:


> To be honest I sent h a letter via regular mail. He is not on social media etc. The email “he” responded to me from was her work email. I honestly sent the letter in hopes he’d make her leave the company. She’s the breadwinner though and carries the families insurance. So......
> I mean the reason she got involved with my husband is her husband was no longer interested in sex with her and she was looking for some “attention”.


You exposed it, why and the reasoning behind it doesn’t matter. Many refuse to do this and let their partner off the hook. 
Interesting, who told you the reasons?

The husband?
Your husband?
The texts?


What you wrote sounds like cheater lies.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Tilted 1 said:


> agree l do not know what the other husband is doing, but it matters none l am saying to Manic do not let the other H dictate what Manic should do. But it isn't the the other husband to inform the church Manic has every right to inform the church weather the other betrayed spouse does it or not.


It matters a ton.
The Husband has the same rights you just gave her. He has every right to tell her not to contact him, his wife and even the church. It is his place of worship so, it is his job. For all any of us know he told her to stop because HE wanted to contact the church.

Now, she doesn’t have to listen, but you are creating an argument where there is none. You said “rugsweep” and never have “closure” my whole point is you have no idea what has been done or how she will find peace


She feels it is vindictive revenge and petty. I agree with her. 

If she was part of the church, I’d have a different take. 

We disagree and now the goalposts are moving. So, I am not not going to further derail her thread on this subject.


----------



## Manic_mama

To be honest I sent h a letter via regular mail. He is not on social media etc. The email “he” responded to me from was her work email. I honestly sent the letter in hopes he’d make her leave the company. She’s the breadwinner though and carries the families insurance. So......
I mean the reason she got involved with my husband is her husband was no longer interested in sex with her and she was looking for some “attention”.[/quote]You exposed it, why and the reasoning behind it doesn’t matter. Many refuse to do this and let their partner off the hook. 
Interesting, who told you the reasons?

The husband?
Your husband?
The texts?


What you wrote sounds like cheater lies.

I am bit confused but here’s the answer I think you’re looking for, how I know her husband wasn’t interested sexually. My husband told me, I saw it in text exchanges between them and she told a friend about it and a real active of that Friend relayed the info to me. My guess is he was cheating to and couldn’t care less.


----------



## Manic_mama

Manic_mama said:


> To be honest I sent h a letter via regular mail. He is not on social media etc. The email “he” responded to me from was her work email. I honestly sent the letter in hopes he’d make her leave the company. She’s the breadwinner though and carries the families insurance. So......
> I mean the reason she got involved with my husband is her husband was no longer interested in sex with her and she was looking for some “attention”.


You exposed it, why and the reasoning behind it doesn’t matter. Many refuse to do this and let their partner off the hook. 
Interesting, who told you the reasons?

The husband?
Your husband?
The texts?


What you wrote sounds like cheater lies.

I am bit confused but here’s the answer I think you’re looking for, how I know her husband wasn’t interested sexually. My husband told me, I saw it in text exchanges between them and she told a friend about it and a real active of that Friend relayed the info to me. My guess is he was cheating to and couldn’t care less.[/QUOTE]

The reasoning for me exposing it was I’d want to know if it were him who’d found out first and I hoped he not want her to continue to work at the company any longer.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Manic_mama said:


> I am bit confused but here’s the answer I think you’re looking for, how I know her husband wasn’t interested sexually. My husband told me, I saw it in text exchanges between them and she told a friend about it and a real active of that Friend relayed the info to me. My guess is he was cheating to and couldn’t care less.
> 
> The reasoning for me exposing it was I’d want to know if it were him who’d found out first and I hoped he not want her to continue to work at the company any longer.


So, the husband didn’t tell you and that is why I asked. A friend of a friend of the affair partner said no sex and some texts. It may be true, but one thing we see from both genders is the “no sex” comment."

You exposed for the right reasons.


----------



## Manic_mama

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am bit confused but here’s the answer I think you’re looking for, how I know her husband wasn’t interested sexually. My husband told me, I saw it in text exchanges between them and she told a friend about it and a real active of that Friend relayed the info to me. My guess is he was cheating to and couldn’t care less.
> 
> The reasoning for me exposing it was I’d want to know if it were him who’d found out first and I hoped he not want her to continue to work at the company any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the husband didn’t tell you and that is why I asked. A friend of a friend of the affair partner said no sex and some texts. It may be true, but one thing we see from both genders is the “no sex” comment."
> 
> You exposed for the right reasons.
Click to expand...

No sex between her and her spouse or my husband and her? My husband didn’t sleep in my bed so he and AP would be texting all evening and until late night. Whether he was home or not he’d be texting with her. Her spouse was also often not in bed. A few times she’d text that the bed was full but not often. None between her and her spouse reportedly from her. My husband said they, he and AP, never got physical but I am convinced it’s because she set that boundary. I told after a few weeks because to me if was all consuming not to. I kept feeling like I was keeping a bad secret and I felt so much better when I let it out. I told him tactfully and offered to speak with him if he wanted. On top of profusely apologizing.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Manic_mama said:


> No sex between her and her spouse or my husband and her? My husband didn’t sleep in my bed so he and AP would be texting all evening and until late night. Whether he was home or not he’d be texting with her. Her spouse was also often not in bed. A few times she’d text that the bed was full but not often. None between her and her spouse reportedly from her. My husband said they, he and AP, never got physical but I am convinced it’s because she set that boundary. I told after a few weeks because to me if was all consuming not to. I kept feeling like I was keeping a bad secret and I felt so much better when I let it out. I told him tactfully and offered to speak with him if he wanted. On top of profusely apologizing.


The AP and her spouse.

No sex is a common refrain from cheaters as well as “it never got physical.”


----------



## Manic_mama

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> No sex between her and her spouse or my husband and her? My husband didn’t sleep in my bed so he and AP would be texting all evening and until late night. Whether he was home or not he’d be texting with her. Her spouse was also often not in bed. A few times she’d text that the bed was full but not often. None between her and her spouse reportedly from her. My husband said they, he and AP, never got physical but I am convinced it’s because she set that boundary. I told after a few weeks because to me if was all consuming not to. I kept feeling like I was keeping a bad secret and I felt so much better when I let it out. I told him tactfully and offered to speak with him if he wanted. On top of profusely apologizing.
> 
> 
> 
> The AP and her spouse.
> 
> No sex is a common refrain from cheaters as well as “it never got physical.”
Click to expand...

Okay, gotcha now! That was my husband’s excuse for cheating. Ummm... he was never home. Spent hours a day in the bar after work and when he was home he was a miserable jerk. Totally not sexually appealing. Put zero effort into our marriage except for wanting to have sex. Sorry but that’s not how it works. I brought this up hundreds of times. Try being around more, try being sober, try taking an interest in your family. Try giving me a break as I was raising our daughters all by myself. It’s common sense really. He had been sober for 18 months, quit on dday. He blames everything on the alcohol, if only it were that simple.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Manic_mama said:


> Okay, gotcha now! That was my husband’s excuse for cheating. Ummm... he was never home. Spent hours a day in the bar after work and when he was home he was a miserable jerk. Totally not sexually appealing. Put zero effort into our marriage except for wanting to have sex. Sorry but that’s not how it works. I brought this up hundreds of times. Try being around more, try being sober, try taking an interest in your family. Try giving me a break as I was raising our daughters all by myself. It’s common sense really. He had been sober for 18 months, quit on dday. He blames everything on the alcohol, if only it were that simple.


Nope. While alcohol lowers inhibitions, he chose to stay away and drink. He was sober when they started flirting. He was sober when they started crossing the lines. He was sober when he was treating you like trash. I am glad you knew your worth.


----------



## aine

Manic_mama said:


> Thank you, girl!!! I need that validation sometimes and I think that’s exactly why I am here. This is a very heavy thing to carry around. Slap that smile on and pretend everything is okay.
> 
> He is most definitely a taker and I am a natural giver. He took extreme advantage of that. I am guilty for allowing him to do so, I made excuses for him. He works hard, he worked hard as a teen and didn’t have that experience like most, he was only 19 when we started dating and we moved in together not real long after. I took on all the responsibility of our daughters, everything. I loved it though being a mom and everything that goes with it was my thing. A partner in crime would have been nice though. He showed up to all the important events even if he slept through most of it. I could never trust him to ever do carpooling because of his drinking, I didn’t trust him.
> 
> He told me the ow never *****ed at him and was always there for him. For real???!! She should have been taking care of her young kids and husband instead of mine!!! He had to put no effort into it, she offered it up without him even asking. I get it though her marriage was **** too, alcoholic husband. Why she’d want another one was beyond me!
> 
> He did try to talk about the problems in our marriage but he didn’t want to see that his drinking and abandonment were the problem. It was me just being a *****!!!! I’ll admit, I was definitely a *****.


There is no reasoning with a man who puts drinking first, do not waste your breathe.The chances are that he is on good behaviour because he knows you might walk. I say it will not last, usual routine to pull you back into the same roller coaster. Thread carefully and get your ducks in a row. Plan your escape.


----------



## aine

Manic_mama said:


> They’d be chatting and he’d ask her what she was doing and many times the answer was working on stuff for bible school!!!!
> 
> I am not a religious person so I was so fooled by their friendship. I thought the Bible school teacher has to be making a positive impact on my husband. I actually encouraged their friendship. 😔 He’d tell me they we’re going to lunch together and it gave me comfort that he was spending time with this wholesome person. They’d talk about gardening, camping trips and other positive activities. I was an absolute fool!!!! She took advantage of my trust as well because she knew I liked her and was completely comfortable with their friendship. I’d always have him ask her stuff for me to get her opinion, baking or PTA stuff. She’d send home recipes for me to try!!! She’d hand write any of her personal adaptations on them with a smiley face!!!!! After I found out I had him take them all and drop them on her desk. I definitely didn’t want them any longer. She would buy stuff for my kids fundraisers and I would do the same for hers. What a total mind**** when I found out. As a woman who definitely supports other women I was completely devastated by the betrayal.
> 
> I don’t personally know anyone from her church so I don’t know how I would go about even informing anyone. I do have a friend that has at least one family member that goes there. In the beginning I actually had a letter drafted to send to her church but I just didn’t feel right about sending it. It felt more vengeful than it did informational. I agree as a mom I would not want that person teaching my child at Bible school and I am not even religious!!! From my understanding she is also the treasurer and is a very active member.


You can look up the church website, find out who are the senior pastors and the elders and send each a copy of your letter. YOu might want to visit the church and speak with the senior pastor and his wife first.


----------



## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> They’d be chatting and he’d ask her what she was doing and many times the answer was working on stuff for bible school!!!!
> 
> I am not a religious person so I was so fooled by their friendship. I thought the Bible school teacher has to be making a positive impact on my husband. I actually encouraged their friendship. 😔 He’d tell me they we’re going to lunch together and it gave me comfort that he was spending time with this wholesome person. They’d talk about gardening, camping trips and other positive activities. I was an absolute fool!!!! She took advantage of my trust as well because she knew I liked her and was completely comfortable with their friendship. I’d always have him ask her stuff for me to get her opinion, baking or PTA stuff. She’d send home recipes for me to try!!! She’d hand write any of her personal adaptations on them with a smiley face!!!!! After I found out I had him take them all and drop them on her desk. I definitely didn’t want them any longer. She would buy stuff for my kids fundraisers and I would do the same for hers. What a total mind**** when I found out. As a woman who definitely supports other women I was completely devastated by the betrayal.
> 
> I don’t personally know anyone from her church so I don’t know how I would go about even informing anyone. I do have a friend that has at least one family member that goes there. In the beginning I actually had a letter drafted to send to her church but I just didn’t feel right about sending it. It felt more vengeful than it did informational. I agree as a mom I would not want that person teaching my child at Bible school and I am not even religious!!! From my understanding she is also the treasurer and is a very active member.
> 
> 
> 
> You can look up the church website, find out who are the senior pastors and the elders and send each a copy of your letter. YOu might want to visit the church and speak with the senior pastor and his wife first.
Click to expand...

Yikes, I’d definitely not go there in person! I asked “her” directly how she worked this out in her religious beliefs. Like how are you sending my husband photos of yourself basically naked and asking if he is aroused (her terms were way more vulgar and so was what my husband replied), masturbating and telling him details and then the next day going to teach Bible school?!! She told me she regretted what she did and realized she may go to hell for doing so. I personally, as a not religious person can not understand that. Hell sounds pretty freaking scary and if I believed that I certainly would not be doing anything to go there.


----------



## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, girl!!! I need that validation sometimes and I think that’s exactly why I am here. This is a very heavy thing to carry around. Slap that smile on and pretend everything is okay.
> 
> He is most definitely a taker and I am a natural giver. He took extreme advantage of that. I am guilty for allowing him to do so, I made excuses for him. He works hard, he worked hard as a teen and didn’t have that experience like most, he was only 19 when we started dating and we moved in together not real long after. I took on all the responsibility of our daughters, everything. I loved it though being a mom and everything that goes with it was my thing. A partner in crime would have been nice though. He showed up to all the important events even if he slept through most of it. I could never trust him to ever do carpooling because of his drinking, I didn’t trust him.
> 
> He told me the ow never *****ed at him and was always there for him. For real???!! She should have been taking care of her young kids and husband instead of mine!!! He had to put no effort into it, she offered it up without him even asking. I get it though her marriage was **** too, alcoholic husband. Why she’d want another one was beyond me!
> 
> He did try to talk about the problems in our marriage but he didn’t want to see that his drinking and abandonment were the problem. It was me just being a *****!!!! I’ll admit, I was definitely a *****.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no reasoning with a man who puts drinking first, do not waste your breathe.The chances are that he is on good behaviour because he knows you might walk. I say it will not last, usual routine to pull you back into the same roller coaster. Thread carefully and get your ducks in a row. Plan your escape.
Click to expand...

He seems much happier not drinking but of course I am super skeptical. We were at his work holiday party and he ate a truffle and then had a panicked moment because he thought it had alcohol in it. When I asked him why it freaked him out he became he knows if he ever drinks again I am out. I went through years of his drinking and I’ll never do it again. I don’t have a solid plan but I’ve definitely been giving it thought. I hate alcohol it’s so destructive!! The worst part is when he told his dad he was an alcoholic and had been sober, at the point only for a few months. His dad basically told him he knew many alcoholics and he definitely was not one of them. Then he’ll ask him “so still not drinking?“. 🙄 Geez, thanks!!! Now I know why I never bothered to reach out to his family for support.


----------



## Manic_mama

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, gotcha now! That was my husband’s excuse for cheating. Ummm... he was never home. Spent hours a day in the bar after work and when he was home he was a miserable jerk. Totally not sexually appealing. Put zero effort into our marriage except for wanting to have sex. Sorry but that’s not how it works. I brought this up hundreds of times. Try being around more, try being sober, try taking an interest in your family. Try giving me a break as I was raising our daughters all by myself. It’s common sense really. He had been sober for 18 months, quit on dday. He blames everything on the alcohol, if only it were that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. While alcohol lowers inhibitions, he chose to stay away and drink. He was sober when they started flirting. He was sober when they started crossing the lines. He was sober when he was treating you like trash. I am glad you knew your worth.
Click to expand...

I pointed all that out to him but of course he still blamed it on the alcohol. Said he was not in the right frame of mind. I don’t accept his bs and won’t be satisfied until he can just own up to his choices. Of course I got the dreaded “it just happened”. Okay!!! I said you were bold enough to carry on this trash in my house while me and your daughters were home but can’t be man enough to just speak the truth?


----------



## Tilted 1

I don't think you get much support from his family, but as aine has also said you should expose to the church as well. It's the right thing to do. You see those people are setting the standard for the children if she the AP, is not held for and with no consequences its more a moral reasoning than anything. And again it's up to you if you so choose. But l also believe he is abiding his time and may repeat this again. 

The friend of your H, the one who told you, what do you think the intentions were, that were revealed to you? Do you want to reconcile then? What if any other than not drinking has your H, shown to earn back your trust and love?


----------



## *Deidre*

This dude won't change, OP. He isn't remorseful, he isn't taking ownership of his actions (I guess the alcohol somehow ''made him do it.'') 

Once you start trusting him again, he'll find a new woman to entertain him at work, or wherever. Because that's usually the cycle of abuse. Yes, it sounds like you're in an emotionally abusive relationship with a cheater.


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## Manic_mama

*Deidre* said:


> This dude won't change, OP. He isn't remorseful, he isn't taking ownership of his actions (I guess the alcohol somehow ''made him do it.'')
> 
> Once you start trusting him again, he'll find a new woman to entertain him at work, or wherever. Because that's usually the cycle of abuse. Yes, it sounds like you're in an emotionally abusive relationship with a cheater.


26 damn years, I made excuses for years for his behavior. I try holding him accountable now but the pattern has been set. I feel like a puppet master in our relationship and I am tired.


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## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> I don't think you get much support from his family, but as aine has also said you should expose to the church as well. It's the right thing to do. You see those people are setting the standard for the children if she the AP, is not held for and with no consequences its more a moral reasoning than anything. And again it's up to you if you so choose. But l also believe he is abiding his time and may repeat this again.
> 
> The friend of your H, the one who told you, what do you think the intentions were, that were revealed to you? Do you want to reconcile then? What if any other than not drinking has your H, shown to earn back your trust and love?


Other than physically being at home, doing some around the house stuff and not drinking he’s not a whole lot. I mean he still works with her 18 later. Go ahead, tell me I am an idiot!! I am painfully aware. To be involved in family life he’s supposed to cook dinner once a month. Since June he’s done it ONE time.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Manic_mama said:


> Other than physically being at home, doing some around the house stuff and not drinking he’s not a whole lot. I mean he still works with her 18 later. Go ahead, tell me I am an idiot!! I am painfully aware. To be involved in family life he’s supposed to cook dinner once a month. Since June he’s done it ONE time.


An idiot for trying to make it work and then realizing you are done? Nope, that isn’t idiotic that’s being human. He checked out, you gave him a chance and he ruined it. No shame in realizing you are done.


----------



## Tilted 1

So you can say you have accepted this to a point and if you have made a choice to stay then it is what it is. But mostly to get it all out in the open gives the betrayed spouse the best shot at full recovery as much as possible. But your H is just rugsweeping this and with hope it will just be forgotten. And so far, his desires are going as planned.


----------



## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> So you can say you have accepted this to a point and if you have made a choice to stay then it is what it is. But mostly to get it all out in the open gives the betrayed spouse the best shot at full recovery as much as possible. But your H is just rugsweeping this and with hope it will just be forgotten. And so far, his desires are going as planned.


He knows it’s not forgotten because I bring it up by asking if “she’s” at work. If they had any encounters. To the best of my knowledge they don’t interact. As long as he continues to work with her I will continue to ask. I have lost so much respect for him as a man, he just looks weak and pathetic to me. There were times during his alcoholic days that I could see the man I thought he was. He has no integrity whatsoever and it’s very unattractive. My focus is on raising my daughters. We really don’t need him for anything other than a provider they 100% rely on me. I’ve accepted it and honestly it’s his loss because I am actually a pretty decent human being.


----------



## Casual Observer

Manic_mama said:


> He knows it’s not forgotten because I bring it up by asking if “she’s” at work. If they had any encounters. To the best of my knowledge they don’t interact. As long as he continues to work with her I will continue to ask. I have lost so much respect for him as a man, he just looks weak and pathetic to me. *There were times during his alcoholic days that I could see the man I thought he was.* He has no integrity whatsoever and it’s very unattractive. My focus is on raising my daughters. We really don’t need him for anything other than a provider they 100% rely on me. I’ve accepted it and honestly it’s his loss because I am actually a pretty decent human being.


He did not have "alcoholic days." He is, at best, a recovering alcoholic. He will never be a former alcoholic. If he has done this on his own (stopped drinking) without a support group, yes, I can see where you kind of miss something in him. His addiction represents a void that must be filled by something else. I do not at all want to defend this man, but when he stopped drinking, he may actually have become more in need of your help than before. What you are seeing is a person with an emptiness that begs for being filled. You may not be capable of filling that emptiness for him, even though it might help bring back the man you thought he was. Of course, I could be totally misreading what you wrote, and the man you thought he was was a bad thing, not a good thing?


----------



## *Deidre*

Manic_mama said:


> 26 damn years, I made excuses for years for his behavior. I try holding him accountable now but the pattern has been set. I feel like a puppet master in our relationship and I am tired.


My grandmother used to say ''the teacher will keep appearing, until you learn the lesson.'' For 26 years, you haven't realized your worth, but hopefully now...you do, and that ''teacher'' will not need to keep coming around.


----------



## Manic_mama

*Deidre* said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> 26 damn years, I made excuses for years for his behavior. I try holding him accountable now but the pattern has been set. I feel like a puppet master in our relationship and I am tired.
> 
> 
> 
> My grandmother used to say ''the teacher will keep appearing, until you learn the lesson.'' For 26 years, you haven't realized your worth, but hopefully now...you do, and that ''teacher'' will not need to keep coming around. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

Let me just say, I’ve gotten more insight here than I did in the many hours of therapy not to mention thousands of dollars!!! If only my grandmother was alive, she’d told me to tell him to f**k right off! I definitely know my worth. I am a kind, caring nurturing person. I was just hoping one day he’d see my worth. He did not have a positive role model as a father. We’ve been discussing that in depth lately.


----------



## Manic_mama

Casual Observer said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> He knows it’s not forgotten because I bring it up by asking if “she’s” at work. If they had any encounters. To the best of my knowledge they don’t interact. As long as he continues to work with her I will continue to ask. I have lost so much respect for him as a man, he just looks weak and pathetic to me. *There were times during his alcoholic days that I could see the man I thought he was.* He has no integrity whatsoever and it’s very unattractive. My focus is on raising my daughters. We really don’t need him for anything other than a provider they 100% rely on me. I’ve accepted it and honestly it’s his loss because I am actually a pretty decent human being.
> 
> 
> 
> He did not have "alcoholic days." He is, at best, a recovering alcoholic. He will never be a former alcoholic. If he has done this on his own (stopped drinking) without a support group, yes, I can see where you kind of miss something in him. His addiction represents a void that must be filled by something else. I do not at all want to defend this man, but when he stopped drinking, he may actually have become more in need of your help than before. What you are seeing is a person with an emptiness that begs for being filled. You may not be capable of filling that emptiness for him, even though it might help bring back the man you thought he was. Of course, I could be totally misreading what you wrote, and the man you thought he was was a bad thing, not a good thing?
Click to expand...

He did quit drinking on his own. The exact moment I confronted him about the affair. He is a very empty person, it’s actually sad to see. I have spent the last 18 months almost acting like I was the one who had the affair. I didn’t want him to relapse so I was as loving and nurturing as possible. That’s my nature anyway so it wasn’t hard. It was not reciprocated and he just took and took but rarely returned the same kind of kindness. He always told me thank you for the things I was doing but it was hurtful. I could ramble forever but yes, I could see at times the person I thought I feel in love with. I don’t know if that person actually ever existed though, I may have conjured him up in my mind because that’s what I wanted. I don’t think I can help him, I am not sure he wants to be helped.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

The old saying, you can’t pour from an empty cup, applies here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aine

Manic_mama said:


> He seems much happier not drinking but of course I am super skeptical. We were at his work holiday party and he ate a truffle and then had a panicked moment because he thought it had alcohol in it. When I asked him why it freaked him out he became he knows if he ever drinks again I am out. I went through years of his drinking and I’ll never do it again. I don’t have a solid plan but I’ve definitely been giving it thought. I hate alcohol it’s so destructive!! The worst part is when he told his dad he was an alcoholic and had been sober, at the point only for a few months. His dad basically told him he knew many alcoholics and he definitely was not one of them. Then he’ll ask him “so still not drinking?“. 🙄 Geez, thanks!!! Now I know why I never bothered to reach out to his family for support.


Most people think that an alcoholic could only be a down and out bum sleeping on the sidewalk.
Look up high functioning alcoholic. There are many of them, but unless they get clean, it is a matter of time.


----------



## aine

Manic_mama said:


> He did quit drinking on his own. The exact moment I confronted him about the affair. He is a very empty person, it’s actually sad to see. I have spent the last 18 months almost acting like I was the one who had the affair. I didn’t want him to relapse so I was as loving and nurturing as possible. That’s my nature anyway so it wasn’t hard. It was not reciprocated and he just took and took but rarely returned the same kind of kindness. He always told me thank you for the things I was doing but it was hurtful. I could ramble forever but yes, I could see at times the person I thought I feel in love with. I don’t know if that person actually ever existed though, I may have conjured him up in my mind because that’s what I wanted. I don’t think I can help him, I am not sure he wants to be helped.


I guess it is no coincidence that the similarities between an alcoholic and a narcissist are startling. Which comes first? Is he an narcissistic alcoholic? or an alcoholic narcissist?


----------



## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did quit drinking on his own. The exact moment I confronted him about the affair. He is a very empty person, it’s actually sad to see. I have spent the last 18 months almost acting like I was the one who had the affair. I didn’t want him to relapse so I was as loving and nurturing as possible. That’s my nature anyway so it wasn’t hard. It was not reciprocated and he just took and took but rarely returned the same kind of kindness. He always told me thank you for the things I was doing but it was hurtful. I could ramble forever but yes, I could see at times the person I thought I feel in love with. I don’t know if that person actually ever existed though, I may have conjured him up in my mind because that’s what I wanted. I don’t think I can help him, I am not sure he wants to be helped.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it is no coincidence that the similarities between an alcoholic and a narcissist are startling. Which comes first? Is he an narcissistic alcoholic? or an alcoholic narcissist?
Click to expand...

I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.


----------



## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> He seems much happier not drinking but of course I am super skeptical. We were at his work holiday party and he ate a truffle and then had a panicked moment because he thought it had alcohol in it. When I asked him why it freaked him out he became he knows if he ever drinks again I am out. I went through years of his drinking and I’ll never do it again. I don’t have a solid plan but I’ve definitely been giving it thought. I hate alcohol it’s so destructive!! The worst part is when he told his dad he was an alcoholic and had been sober, at the point only for a few months. His dad basically told him he knew many alcoholics and he definitely was not one of them. Then he’ll ask him “so still not drinking?“. 🙄 Geez, thanks!!! Now I know why I never bothered to reach out to his family for support.
> 
> 
> 
> Most people think that an alcoholic could only be a down and out bum sleeping on the sidewalk.
> Look up high functioning alcoholic. There are many of them, but unless they get clean, it is a matter of time.
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely. He was a mess at home not falling down drunk just irritated and angry. He’d be fine at first, guess he was still drunk from his stop on the way home. It was mainly the next day before he started drinking. He would have extended times where he seemed better but it’d always go back to the same old thing. He’s 18 months sober and I don’t see that anymore but he’s not happy.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Manic_mama said:


> Let me just say, I’ve gotten more insight here than I did in the many hours of therapy not to mention thousands of dollars!!!


LOL...I could have told you how worthless therapy is years ago. I've never seen any worth in it at all. But everyone loves to 'recommend' it on message boards to the point where it's just a cliche, stock answer, now.


----------



## Manic_mama

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me just say, I’ve gotten more insight here than I did in the many hours of therapy not to mention thousands of dollars!!!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...I could have told you how worthless therapy is years ago. I've never seen any worth in it at all. But everyone loves to 'recommend' it on message boards to the point where it's just a cliche, stock answer, now.
Click to expand...

I was just hoping for a mediator basically but this wacko tried to “diagnosis” my husband with Aspergers during one of our sessions. First of all she’d wasn’t even qualified to do so!!! Her second red flag was telling me I’d deal with it much better if I sought out medication! We had some words and I am a very laid back calm person. I definitely think there are good therapist out there but finding them is a challenge. Its too costly to just keep jumping around because it takes a few sessions to get a feel for them.


----------



## Tilted 1

So on a other thread you say you're gonna stay, if he had met you grounds your on your way. But again nothing will change unless he wants to see change he's dragging his tail to get to you. And it's working you are now self doubting, 

Because you love him, accept his unhappiness as a cost to the wounds he has caused your marriage.


----------



## Manic_mama

Tilted 1 said:


> So on a other thread you say you're gonna stay, if he had met you grounds your on your way. But again nothing will change unless he wants to see change he's dragging his tail to get to you. And it's working you are now self doubting,
> 
> Because you love him, accept his unhappiness as a cost to the wounds he has caused your marriage.


It’s all just a big mess.


----------



## Arkansas

Manic_mama

did you see my post ?

much similar happened to me and my wife was THE most honest, trustworthy person and .... she changed. I have no other way to put it. PEOPLE CHANGE and its on them, not you, me or anyone else

its my experience over the last 14-16 months ... lying becomes a default. That's what they do because they're going to do what they want to do and piss on you, your kids, family everyone. They'll destroy everything to get what they want  

Not a pretty picture I'm painting but it aint pretty being in it


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Manic_mama said:


> Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him.


 Wow, you sure are. 

I've read about a *million* excuses you've made for his sh** behavior in this thread alone.


----------



## Manic_mama

Arkansas said:


> Manic_mama
> 
> did you see my post ?
> 
> much similar happened to me and my wife was THE most honest, trustworthy person and .... she changed. I have no other way to put it. PEOPLE CHANGE and its on them, not you, me or anyone else
> 
> its my experience over the last 14-16 months ... lying becomes a default. That's what they do because they're going to do what they want to do and piss on you, your kids, family everyone. They'll destroy everything to get what they want <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a>
> 
> Not a pretty picture I'm painting but it aint pretty being in it


It’s so devastating, I am so sorry!! I had 100% trust in my husband. He talked about this woman often but nothing that was to raise suspicion, general stuff. He did always talk very highly of her but I thought it was because she was just a good friend/colleague. My own mother who absolutely adored my husband even asked me if I was bothered by their relationship!!! That’s how blind and trusting I was!!! Do people change or were they always this way but we just didn’t see it? The last 26 years of my life have just been flipped upside down.😔


----------



## Manic_mama

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you sure are.
> 
> I've read about a *million* excuses you've made for his sh** behavior in this thread alone. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/eek.gif" border="0" alt="" title="EEK!" ></a>
Click to expand...

Ugh 😩 I know!!!!


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## pastasauce79

So, what are you going to do now? Your future is in your hands. What do you want to do?

I do recommend finding a good IC counselor for you. I recommend it because I was lucky to find a good one when I needed it. There should be a good one around the area you live at.


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## Manic_mama

pastasauce79 said:


> So, what are you going to do now? Your future is in your hands. What do you want to do?
> 
> I do recommend finding a good IC counselor for you. I recommend it because I was lucky to find a good one when I needed it. There should be a good one around the area you live at.


After my last counseling experience I just am not very eager to go that route again. What next, that’s what I am working on.


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## aine

Manic_mama said:


> I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.


An emotionally deprived childhood is also a foundation for narcissism


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## Manic_mama

aine said:


> Manic_mama said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually don’t think he is a true narcissist. I believe that both of his parents are narcissistic especially his father, textbook!!! I think he was taught to have narcissistic tendencies. Self entitled but not about everything, it’s hard to explain. I think his emotions were so unimportant to his parents as a child that he actually just turned them off. The only time he shows emotion is through anger or impatience, never excitement. Happy but not outwardly shown. Never gets emotional except when watching movies. It’s so complicated to understand, Ivthink that’s why I always find myself making excuses for him. He was not deprived financially growing up but there were definitely thinks lacking elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> An emotionally deprived childhood is also a foundation for narcissism
Click to expand...

I am going to look into that a bit deeper,thanks for the insight. I guess I never really thought about the cause of narcissism.


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## Arkansas

Maniac-mama

let me guess - and tell me how far off I am

you love him, you love what you had ... you remember all the great things your relationship was. You fought hard, way beyond what anyone else would have. you realize/know he doesn't really want you, but you can't keep from having hope he'll wake up and realize it today. you feel he knows you like nobody else and if he doesn't love you, who's going to? how are you going to survive being alone and all the little things you're going to miss? Not that you can't, you know you can ... its just a daunting thought right ?

I am there. Right now, I am right there. I can't tell you how to proceed because I don't know myself. I CAN tell you that I realized 2 days ago my wife is gone. The beautiful person she used to be died, replaced with someone who didn't love me or our marriage enough to not cheat. It was a horrible thing she did too, months of lies, betrayal with a 21 year old kid literally half her own age. Your husband didn't love you enough to not do what he did. Period. Hard to swallow but its the truth. 

So, realize that love is gone, that beautiful thing you saw and was in, is gone. You didn't destroy it, he did. Your marriage failed and it wasn't by your hands. Everyone could have done better, like I told my wife yes, I contributed to having a less than perfect marriage and I can see how we both had equal blame but listen to this ....... this is YOUR marriage. This is HIS marriage. If you don't like it, CHANGE IT. My wife didn't, she'd rather damage her soul by having an affair, committing a horrible sin that damaged every relationship she had and she knew it, wanted it, liked it and did it over and over every day it was happening. 

your husband did too - and people who do that ? they have to change their souls to go that far down the rabbit hole

I'm getting out. My 18 year old son came home after a ball game last night and wanted to know what was happening and I shared with him, without details. He asked if she came back to me and begged me back could I take her and I said no. He said but if she'd do anything and I said no son, I'm sorry. She's done too much damage. That was as hurtful a conversation as I've ever had. He doesn't want to lose his mom and dad .... I didn't choose this. YOU did not choose this either.

do you see what I'm saying ?


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## willistrong

One thing lead to another and bam she was sending him semi nude photos, lots of sexting and mutual masturbation.


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## Manic_mama

willistrong said:


> One thing lead to another and bam she was sending him semi nude photos, lots of sexting and mutual masturbation.


That’s the story.


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## Manic_mama

Arkansas said:


> Maniac-mama
> 
> let me guess - and tell me how far off I am
> 
> you love him, you love what you had ... you remember all the great things your relationship was. You fought hard, way beyond what anyone else would have. you realize/know he doesn't really want you, but you can't keep from having hope he'll wake up and realize it today. you feel he knows you like nobody else and if he doesn't love you, who's going to? how are you going to survive being alone and all the little things you're going to miss? Not that you can't, you know you can ... its just a daunting thought right ?
> 
> I am there. Right now, I am right there. I can't tell you how to proceed because I don't know myself. I CAN tell you that I realized 2 days ago my wife is gone. The beautiful person she used to be died, replaced with someone who didn't love me or our marriage enough to not cheat. It was a horrible thing she did too, months of lies, betrayal with a 21 year old kid literally half her own age. Your husband didn't love you enough to not do what he did. Period. Hard to swallow but its the truth.
> 
> So, realize that love is gone, that beautiful thing you saw and was in, is gone. You didn't destroy it, he did. Your marriage failed and it wasn't by your hands. Everyone could have done better, like I told my wife yes, I contributed to having a less than perfect marriage and I can see how we both had equal blame but listen to this ....... this is YOUR marriage. This is HIS marriage. If you don't like it, CHANGE IT. My wife didn't, she'd rather damage her soul by having an affair, committing a horrible sin that damaged every relationship she had and she knew it, wanted it, liked it and did it over and over every day it was happening.
> 
> your husband did too - and people who do that ? they have to change their souls to go that far down the rabbit hole
> 
> I'm getting out. My 18 year old son came home after a ball game last night and wanted to know what was happening and I shared with him, without details. He asked if she came back to me and begged me back could I take her and I said no. He said but if she'd do anything and I said no son, I'm sorry. She's done too much damage. That was as hurtful a conversation as I've ever had. He doesn't want to lose his mom and dad .... I didn't choose this. YOU did not choose this either.
> 
> do you see what I'm saying ?


Similar, yes. Betrayal is a hurtful destructive act like no other. This has by far been the worst experience of my life. 😔


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## Arkansas

someone you give yourself to 100% and after years and years of commitment they abandon everything and turn their backs on family ......... for those of us who are loyal and trustworthy, its unfathomable


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## Manic_mama

Arkansas said:


> someone you give yourself to 100% and after years and years of commitment they abandon everything and turn their backs on family ......... for those of us who are loyal and trustworthy, its unfathomable


26 years, basically all of our adult lives have been spent together. We’ve worked hard for where we are and all tossed away because some piece of trash offered herself up and he couldn’t resist. Just to be a *****, she’s a frumpy country girl who is nothing to look at so it’s difficult to grasp. If had fell in love with someone at least I could make sense of it but it was just a trashy fling. 

Your wife, I am sure when her fling is over it’s going to hit her like a tons of bricks how selfish and foolish her choice was. If they don’t want to be in a marriage anymore then end it the right way before you get involved with someone else.


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