# Hermes Separation Journal



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Good morning all. I figured I should consolidate my thread here so I can chronicle what has happened post physical separation.

A quick overview:

- Wife asked for divorce on 10/6/12
- Wife is caught going out with another man on 10/7/12
- She was caught multiple times talking / texting this guy while we still lived in the same house, even after she swore she would not talk to him
- While still living together, I found condoms in her bag
- She was hiding her phone so I could not see conversations between them
- Her grievances are "She was alone for a long time, she wanted a divorce for a while, I neglected her, I stopped opening up about feelings, we grew apart.
- She claimed she wants to go to therapy (for herself), but of course, has not
- My family hates her now.
- Her father hates me
- Her mother is pissed at her, as is her brother. They tell her she is being selfish, a bad mother, a bad wife, etc.
- Her fears about reconciliation are, she is afraid she will get emotionally attached to me again and the changes would not be permanent. She will just be miserable again.
- She moved out of our house on 10/14/12
- I am codependant
- I am a nice guy
- I have met an attorney and got the MSA prepared (as of today 11/7/12, she agrees to it, but has not signed it)
- She believes she is the victim
- The OM is a complete douche......
- The wife is being completely selfish
- The wife chose the OM and a marathon over her dying aunt and her daughters 4th birthday
- She has added the OM to facebook as a friend. I removed her.
- We are completely NC, I told her to only contact me via email or text

So that was a quick update on my situation. I will update this thread going forward.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Here are my observations about myself:

- I am a nice guy. I put my wife on a pedestal and thought nothing but the world of her. I never thought she would be capable of what she has done. I did not look at her as a sexual person (outside of being with me).

- I never communicated. We would talk, but I never gave my full undivided attention to her. I would always be doing something else or just listening to appease her

- I never participated in her interests. She is a runner. I hate running. To me, running is the punishment you get in real sports (sorry to offend any runners here ). Likewise, she never participated in mine, but I should have tried harder to take an interest in her recreational activities.

- I lied to her. I lied about stupid things that made no sense to lie about. I did this because I was ashamed she would think less of me and leave me. I tried to please her no mater what. This is something that I did with everyone. I would lie to family and friends to make myself look/feel better. My father left me when i was 4 years old and I feared the same would happen if i told her the truth. The thing is, the truth was not bad. It was stupid little things that, looking back, would not be reason enough to end a marriage.

- I was very affectionate, but affection to me was sex. I would hold her hands, hug her, kiss her, etc, but usually with the end goal of having sex. I would give her a hug and immediate grab her butt. I always assumed that affection is affection. But I realize now that affection is different from admiration. Sex is not everything.

- I was distant. I am a loner, by nature. I would come home and want to unwind, so I would sit in my room at my PC or do something that I wanted to do.

- I did not have my own activities (other than my PC) that I would do without her. I have NO friends other than family. I would always spend all my free time with family. I have 1 guy friend (her brother) that I consider (and he does too) my brother, regardless of what happens with my relationship.

- I would guilt or manipulate to get what i wanted.

- I shifted blame on her to cover my own insecurities.

- I played the victim, because I would always put her above my own needs and then "woe is me" when my needs were not met.

- I never confronted her with problems that I felt or worries that I had.

- I depended on her to make me happy, and would use any method in my arsenal to make that happen. I did not care if I lied, guilted, etc to get what i wanted from her.

- I NEVER stood up to her. I would always just go along with what she wanted. I was never decisive. I assumed that if I just went along with what she wanted, she would be happy. I did not think that she would want someone that would choose (even if she did not want to do that) what were doing/going and stick to it. I always deferred to her for decisions.

- I always gave to her and to others with the subconscious understanding that I would get back for it. I never gave for the good of giving. When i did not get something back, I was resentful and bitter.

There are more to come.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Hang in there.. now that you see your stbx from 50,000 you understand that she is a taker, not a giver. Always remember that you have a lot to give in your next relationship. My stbx has been gone since Sept. 21st. She blocked my phone and went NC. She is BPD. She forced me to upgrade her wedding ring last Dec. because an aquaintance had a bigger one (selfish). Last Friday I called her office and left a message to give the rings back because they were not purchased out of love, but of selfishness. She emailed my work and wrote that she will mail them certified this Friday... We are both seeing that there is no point in wallowing in misery. I don't want her back anymore. My wife, like yours, cheated. I took begged her to come back and it was never the same. I never trusted her like I did in the beginning. I see now that once the trust is broken, it can't ever get back to the same level. Your wife violated something that is sacred. You will never be able to trust at the level you use to. I know it sucks to hear that, but my friend, as humans that's who we are.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

God I am a mess today. How long does it take to not miss her so much? I just want to go to her office and tell her how I feel. I know that has gotten me nowhere. I see who she is right now. I still love her and want her back. What does that say about me? I miss our family. I hate that this guy is getting what I should have. I hate that our vows mean nothing. I hate how I swore to stay with her for better or worse and I do not get the same treatment. 

I know victim role. Boo hoo me. My birthday is tomorrow and the two people in the world I want to share it with are not going to be there. I think that is what is getting to me today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Hermes said:


> God I am a mess today. How long does it take to not miss her so much? I just want to go to her office and tell her how I feel. I know that has gotten me nowhere.* I see who she is right now*. I still love her and want her back. What does that say about me? I miss our family. *I hate that this guy is getting what I should have. I hate that our vows mean nothing. I hate how I swore to stay with her for better or worse and I do not get the same treatment. *
> I know victim role. Boo hoo me. My birthday is tomorrow and the two people in the world I want to share it with are not going to be there. I think that is what is getting to me today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Lock inot what I bolded. Get mad. She doesn't care about your feelings. She thinks about this new 'fling' . That's what fills her days. Mine is doing the same thing. I don't want her back. This isn't the first time mine did this... keep in mind, if your wife strayed once and you let her back, you are approving of the behavior and re-enforcing it.. cheating is NOT OKAY.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Ostera said:


> Lock inot what I bolded. Get mad. She doesn't care about your feelings. She thinks about this new 'fling' . That's what fills her days. Mine is doing the same thing. I don't want her back. This isn't the first time mine did this... keep in mind, if your wife strayed once and you let her back, you are approving of the behavior and re-enforcing it.. cheating is NOT OKAY.


Thanks. I agree that cheating is not acceptable, but I do believe that you can fix a marriage (if both parties are 100% committed) even after an affair. I will not give up hope until there is nothing left to hope for.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I just sent her an email (about the MSA)

M,

Did you have a chance to review and sign this? 

M

To which she replied:

No. I apologize for not reviewing last night, but we celebrated A’s birthday last night since I haven’t had her.
I’ve cleared time tonight to review, so you’ll hear from me tomorrow. I too, am anxious to get this going, M. 

So, tomorrow! 

Also, I may as well ask the 3 questions that already come to mind in my initial review:
1)	In Addendum A, birthdays are not mentioned—I’m thinking we will do like the other holidays and rotate even and odd? You just got her on the even, so I’ll get her on the odd, no?
2)	New Years—are you going to treat that like a holiday and split the years? Or just let the day fall where it may within our schedule? I think we should assign even and odd years, with the option of first right of refusal, should one of us decide we want to do something. I believe the way the schedule is this year, I’d have her on New Years, which I like…
3)	When are you planning on picking up the cats? Need to prepare A for the change. She loves feeding them, and all.

How should i respond to this? I am not anxious to get this going, but i want to have this signed, so I can be covered a little on the custody/spousal/child support, etc.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What are you ok with?

Short and businesslike answers.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

should i tell her that i have given time for changes (she has had this MSA for 2 weeks and has made a few changes already, which i had redone). This is the final version that I signed. The attorney will not make any more adjustments. If there are additional changes that you require, you will need to contact an attorney or pay my attorney fee of $350 per hour. 

Is that too harsh?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> should i tell her that i have given time for changes (she has had this MSA for 2 weeks and has made a few changes already, which i had redone). This is the final version that I signed. The attorney will not make any more adjustments. If there are additional changes that you require, you will need to contact an attorney or pay my attorney fee of $350 per hour.
> 
> Is that too harsh?


Not at all.

Tell her this:

The document that sits before you is bought and paid for. Any changes will require the attorney to modify @350.00/hour.

I'm not ok paying for changes.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I sent her:

M,

The document that sits before you is bought and paid for. Any changes will require the attorney to modify @ $350 per hour. I am not ok paying for any additional changes.

The cats will be picked up within the next week. I am waiting for a home for them.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

You need to sit back and let her crash and burn in this new relationship. Focus on you and the kid. Don't sit at home and dwell. It will kill you (literally through stress). 

Also, the OM obviously doesn't know the saying- 'If they will do it with you, they will do it to you.' Trust me, seen it many times.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, she responded with this:

Why would you do that? Why not okay with me the final before you paid for it? That doesn’t make any sense, M…

What should i say?

She just sent this as well:

Additionally, if I want/need to make changes, since this was your last draft that you were willing to pay for, you will have to wait for me to save up that money to pay for the revision because I won’t have that anytime soon.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Should i respond with this:

I have paid for this since the start of the MSA. As stated before, my attorney charges for every change that is made. I gave this to you on October 23rd. You have had ample time to review and make changes. I asked, on multiple occasions for you to provide a list of all your changes. In fact, you and your father have made numerous changes, that I paid to have adjusted. These changes should have been addressed before. If you want additional changes, as stated, will require the attorney to change @ $350 per hour. I am not ok with paying for additional changes.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I do not want to be an ass to her, but I want to stand my ground. I do want to reconcile, but I do not want to be taken advantage of. I do not want her to hate me, since I think reconciling will not happen if that is the case. 

I am so torn. I should not focus on how she will take this, but I can not help it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, she responded with this:
> 
> Why would you do that? Why not okay with me the final before you paid for it? That doesn’t make any sense, M…
> 
> ...


You say "Ok"


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Should i respond with this:
> 
> I have paid for this since the start of the MSA. As stated before, my attorney charges for every change that is made. I gave this to you on October 23rd. You have had ample time to review and make changes. I asked, on multiple occasions for you to provide a list of all your changes. In fact, you and your father have made numerous changes, that I paid to have adjusted. These changes should have been addressed before. If you want additional changes, as stated, will require the attorney to change @ $350 per hour. I am not ok with paying for additional changes.


Do not do this.

It's explaining and angling for victim status.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Tell her that is fine.. don't be forking out anymore cash.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And Hermes,

As much as you want to be protected by the MSA you can should let her stew on it.

Because these are the consequences she gets for her cheating.

You pay for her cheating too but she needs to feel this.

Why is her Dad mad at you?

Because his daughter acts like a teenager?

Or is their house too crowded.......


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> And Hermes,
> 
> As much as you want to be protected by the MSA you can should let her stew on it.
> 
> ...


Because he daughter can do no wrong. He is a terrible husban and father, but he thinks he knows everything. His own wife has hated him ( and it is no secret) for as long as they have been married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

Hermes,



Hermes said:


> - I am a nice guy





Hermes said:


> I do not want to be an ass to her, but I want to stand my ground.


In my opinion (and how I carry myself these days), Hermes, the two quotes above can be clarified as this: If there is something that requires a yes or no with little impact for you, you HAVE to say "No". This is needed because your "Nice guy"-ness has caused her to lose respect to you. So, one way to instill the realization that she needs to respect you now is that she needs to reckon with this 'newly awakened' power, you. You be mean to her, that will win her back in short term. In long term, of course, you will need to be strong. Check out:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/56922-suggestions-upping-alpha.html#post1096883




Hermes said:


> - She believes she is the victim


This above, in my own case, is one of the things I list as one of the reasons why I am skeptical about R. I sense that playing victim is a sign of 'entitlement'. She is entitled to pull this sh!t on you and the entire family because she has been hurt beyond belief. It shows that she is in a fog. I don't know about the timeline of your observations but you may consider what I just write and correlate it with your wife's fog episode.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> And Hermes,
> 
> As much as you want to be protected by the MSA you can should let her stew on it.
> 
> ...


HM,

I want her to sign the MSA solely so I have some legal protection against her trying to take custody of my daughter or changing financial aspects. The incidental items I could care less for. She has been so erratic during this that I am just not sure what she is capable of right now and do not want to risk her getting bad advice from her father/boyfriend about how she is entitled to take me to the cleaners. 

I am going to let the divorce papers sit. I will not file those. I will let the consequences catch up to her once we are completely NC, which will start this week. On Monday, we go week to week with our daughter, so I will not need to see her (the ex) at all.

He hates me for a few reasons. 1. His daughter is never wrong. The whole family knows about what she is doing, but he is the one that does not care. She must have a good reason to do it and that reason is I am an *******. 2. We went through a foreclosure (see my previous thread), so we needed his help in signing for a new car last year. We purchased 2 new ones for us, but we needed his signature for one. So, he is the sole signatory on a 30,000 car note, that I told her I am not comfortable taking, so she is responsible for it. So, since she can not afford it, he has to pay for it. Of course, this is my fault. 3. There was an issue with his car insurance that was caused by me (the new car had to be on his policy, since he was the only signatory). His premium increased substantially for the next 6 months. He wants me to pay for it, which I had no issue doing. I called him to get the information for it, so I can get it to the attorney, and he was a complete ass to me. So, I am not paying him. I will not be disrespected like that when I am willing to pay for something that legally I am not responsible to pay. I told his son (my best friend) about it (they have a terrible relationship too) and I told him I would pay him instead (the son pays all the bills for the father). He will then put it into his savings and we will do something together with that money. I feel better since I paid him, not the dad. He likes it too, since he can tell his dad that he cost them x amount of dollars by being an ass to me. So screw him. I do not care. I tried in the beginning to talk to him so he would see my side, but I am done going against the in law spin machine. I am sure she tells them just how bad of a husband I was. I know the mom does not believe it. Meh.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

> If there is something that requires a yes or no with little impact for you, you HAVE to say "No". This is needed because your "Nice guy"-ness has caused her to lose respect to you. So, one way to instill the realization that she needs to respect you now is that she needs to reckon with this 'newly awakened' power, you. You be mean to her, that will win her back in short term. In long term, of course, you will need to be strong. Check out:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/56922-suggestions-upping-alpha.html#post1096883


I agree. I am not going to be nice to her about things. I am not going to be an ass, either. I will be firm on what I want. I know she has no respect for me. She thinks that I am not going to go anywhere. She thinks that at any time, she can just come back and I will forgive everything she has done and take her back with open arms. Good luck with that. I am not saying I would not take her back. I am saying that it is not as easy as she seems to think. 

Thanks for the response. I think we are both on the same page with her. 




> This above, in my own case, is one of the things I list as one of the reasons why I am skeptical about R. I sense that playing victim is a sign of 'entitlement'. She is entitled to pull this sh!t on you and the entire family because she has been hurt beyond belief. It shows that she is in a fog. I don't know about the timeline of your observations but you may consider what I just write and correlate it with your wife's fog episode.


Of course she is entitled. She had to endure torture and punishment, being locked up in a sex-filled, loving marriage for so long that she deserves to get out and be happy. Who am I to tell her no? Stupid. I know she is in a fog. I know she will snap out of it too. It is all a matter of time.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So today has been ok so far. It is my 29th birthday, so I have that going for me. I expected to wake up and be depressed, since I do not have my wife or daughter with me today, but I feel fine. So far it is like any other birthday. She forgot my birthday the last 2 years, so not having her call or tell me happy birthday in the morning is nothing new. hopefully the rest of the day is this smooth. 

In bad news, I went out and purchased a new TV (6 days before the wife asked for a divorce) to upgrade what I had. I spent almost $3,000 on it and during the move to my new place it broke. Nothing that I can do about it. Money down the drain. Chalking this up to the cost of the divorce too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> HM,
> 
> I want her to sign the MSA solely so I have some legal protection against her trying to take custody of my daughter or changing financial aspects. The incidental items I could care less for. She has been so erratic during this that I am just not sure what she is capable of right now and do not want to risk her getting bad advice from her father/boyfriend about how she is entitled to take me to the cleaners.
> 
> ...


All of you who take comfort in the "great" relationship you have with your in-laws, read this.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> All of you who take comfort in the "great" relationship you have with your in-laws, read this.


exactly. I thought I had a great relationship with them. Hell, I was at their house every Saturday morning cooking them all breakfast, fixing their house (the father is lazy and will not do anything), helping the mother do things around the house, giving them advice on real estate issues (I run a real estate firm), etc. 

We tell them we want a divorce and then immediately I am out of the family. So much for meaning something to them. 

I went to visit her aunt (who has stage 4 cancer this past weekend, since I was in Orlando with my daughter) and I was introduced to friends of the aunt as M's separated husband. Already the ex husband. I said my thoughts to her about her cancer and left. 

On a side note, going to therapy today and I will bring my list of my faults above to see what the therapist says. I am still waiting for a call back from the therapists you recommended in the other thread. I will go to my current one to see what she says, but if she pulls that co-dependency is BS routine, I will drop her and move on.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So therapy went well today. I printed the list on the first page of my personal observations. I went over them with her. She immediately said that I am codependent. She gave me some advice on how to deal with it. We talked about the big issues that I have, specifically the lying. We talked about my father, who left when i was little. We talked about how I fear becoming like him, but that by me lying like I was doing, that I am in fact becoming more like him and driving people away. We talked about my abandonment issues stemming from my father leaving. 

It was good. 

I went to the gym to work out with my brother in law, who told me the wife is moving in with him this weekend, since she is miserable at home with her parents. I said ok. I do not care about that. I am going there tomorrow morning to get the rest of my things, before she goes over there tomorrow night. 

So far today is good. I am feeling better. Observing her instead of hanging on every word she says. I will be happy once I do not have to hear or see her. 

The therapist said the same thing that she will crash and burn with this new guy soon and she will run to what she is comfortable with (me). Will i want her is the question.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So today she swore she would have the MSA signed. Nothing. She had my daughter call me to say happy birthday. Nothing from her. No happy birthday, no mention of the documents. Nothing. 8 years together and I do not even get a happy birthday. What a *****. She is making it very easy to disconnect from her.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So I just called my daughter to say good night. The wife got on the phone and wanted to talk to me about the custody agreement. I told her I am not okay talking over the phone but I will email her tomorrow. She started laughing and was like "really, you can't just tell me now?". I reiterated that I'm not okay talking over the phone. She said "good for you" and laughed. I said goodbye and hung up. 

I texted her after that with this:

I am not ok discussing anything over the phone. If you want to discuss anything with me, text or email only. As for A, I want her this week. If not, I am not ok starting the 7 day period until the following week, which you will get her.*

Her response:
I get her on the 12th for that whole week. You get her Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday night. And then after the week of the 12th it's your week. Thats what makes sense. Finish the 3 day flow and on Monday the 12th, we start the week long thing, no?

To which I responded:

I am not ok with that. I want her the week of the 12th. We can continue the 3 day schedule until the following week starts, when you will take her (the 19th.) if you want you can have her this weekend and I will start on the 12th.

Her response:
Why? I think I have a right to ask what your reasoning is.

My response:
You do. Because I want to have her the same weeks that her cousins are here so she has friends to play with.*

Her response:
Fair enough. Then we will pursue the 3 day schedule until the 19th. Feel free to shoot me an email to document this. But the thing you signed says that we start on the 12th.*May want to bring that up with your attorney?

My response
I already did.

Her response
So you would need to resign that doc?

Mine:
No. It is an amendment, that does not require resigning.*

Hers:

Ok. 

I think I handled that well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I am having a hard one not calling her to tell her I miss her. I won't, but it is tough right now. After all she has done to me, why do I still miss her? It is stupid.

I am still very hurt she did not have the decency to wish me a happy birthday. 8 years together and I do not even get that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am having a hard one not calling her to tell her I miss her. I won't, but it is tough right now. After all she has done to me, why do I still miss her? It is stupid.
> 
> I am still very hurt she did not have the decency to wish me a happy birthday. 8 years together and I do not even get that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mine didn't say jack squat to me on my birthday either.

Heck, she didn't even remind the kids.

Got nothing from her or them.

So instead I asked the kids where they were taking me for my birthday lunch and they got excited about it lol.

Picked Subway.

Best birthday dinner ever.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

That is nice. I did get a call from my daughter at least. She was there with her. She could have easily said "happy birthday" or something. Just upsetting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> That is nice. I did get a call from my daughter at least. She was there with her. She could have easily said "happy birthday" or something. Just upsetting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Why?


I don't know. I know that it is victim talk. Boo hoo me. She did not say anything about my Birthday. I know it is stupid and I should not care. I do care though. I still love her. I can't believe that I mean nothing to her. It just put me in a bad place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

She's thought of it.

Making a statement.

Don't let her get to you.

It's what she wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> She's thought of it.
> 
> Making a statement.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I did not think of it like that. Thank you. That REALLY made me feel better.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. I did not think of it like that. Thank you. That REALLY made me feel better.


spun has earned his stripes honorably.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

And another night she did not call to say goodnight to her daughter. What a trophy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> And another night she did not call to say goodnight to her daughter. What a trophy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who are you focused on?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

What is the parenting schedule?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I am focused on her. I know. Today has been a bad day. I know I should not care. My daughter has not mentioned it so why should I care. I shouldn't. Trying not too. 

We are going 7 days each starting next Monday (19th).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I am focused on her. I know. Today has been a bad day. I know I should not care. My daughter has not mentioned it so why should I care. I shouldn't. Trying not too.
> 
> We are going 7 days each starting next Monday (19th).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Herm,

Do you know the difference between those who succeed and those who fail?

Those who succeed get up ONE MORE TIME.

It's that simple.

You know the right path.

Get up and get on it.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Herm,
> 
> Do you know the difference between those who succeed and those who fail?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I do know the right path. I try to get on it, do well, then crash. I pick myself up and move forward. One step at time. Some days are just bad days. Today was one of them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. I do know the right path. I try to get on it, do well, then crash. I pick myself up and move forward. One step at time. Some days are just bad days. Today was one of them.


And, tomorrow is another chance.

Let's make it count.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am focused on her. I know. Today has been a bad day. I know I should not care. My daughter has not mentioned it so why should I care. I shouldn't. Trying not too.
> 
> *We are going 7 days each starting next Monday* (19th).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mid week visitations?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

No. 7 days each. I plan to go to her school an have lunch with her once a week, so I will see her during the week. It works out better, since I will not have to see the ex now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, not much to report today. Saturday we got together with my brother in law and his girlfried (10+ years, I consider her my sister in law, as does she). We went to my sisters house and hung out and had some drinks. We did not talk about the stbxw at all. They are firmly on my side through this. I asked them both to not talk about her to me at all. I told them only if it effects my daughter to tell me. They have honored that, which is nice.

My sister and sister in law snuck away for a minute. I found out that they went to talk about my ex. The sister in law told my sister than she hopes that the ex does not try to get me back and that she hopes she leaves me alone. She said that "if" she comes to her senses, she hopes that it is not for a while. When asked why, she said that because she feels that I will not heal if it is too soon and will not learn a lesson from this. 

The rest of the night went smoothly. No call from ex. complete NC. 

I went to the gym today and I talked to my brother in law about what we were doing about the TV shows we all watch together (we (me, brother in law, sister in law and wife) watch Boardwalk Empire, Walking Dead, Game of Thrones and Homeland together). I was curious if we would have to split which shows we watched with them. He told me no, since she (ex wife) does not want to do anything in the house. She wants to just be outside all the time. 

Victim status again. I would assume, I kept her trapped, so now she has to grasp at any freedom she can. 

So far so good. Detaching slowly. Still miss her and still want to tell her that, but that desire is slowly decreasing.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds like you have some good support there with your sister and brother in law. That is good. 

Not sure when the missing her part will fade. Still wondering the same, but it sounds like you are doing well and keeping your head.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Sounds like you have some good support there with your sister and brother in law. That is good.
> 
> Not sure when the missing her part will fade. Still wondering the same, but it sounds like you are doing well and keeping your head.


I know. I have told them all that they have made this situation so much better, since I have their support.

I am trying. I guess the thing is, I know she will miss me. I have no doubt about it. My problem is not the missing her part. My problem is the having hope part. I wish that I did not know she would regret and miss me, so I could not have such high hope of every call or every text being the one that she tells me she misses me. I need to detach more.

I keep doubting myself. I keep thinking "did I fight enough for her or did I just let her walk away too easy?", "Should i send her something so she knows that I care?", etc.

The thing is, I know the answers to those questions already. I know that I did everything I could to fix this, but she has done nothing. She walked out, not me, there is nothing that I can do. I know that I should not send her anything and let her miss me. I just can't stop the thoughts. What sucks is I know the answer, but in the moment I have the thoughts, I doubt myself and my emotion takes over and I am on the cusp of hitting send or doing something else, but I reel myself back from the edge. I just tell myself that this person does not deserve my attention. She does not deserve my love or admiration. My wife does, but this person that she has become does not. 

Meh. Keep on keeping on. Thankfully I am busy with the new place. I have my family just around the corner now, so I have seen them everyday. My daughter loves the new place. She told me this morning that she likes my house and new bed better than mommy's house. Little victories. I will take them all.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

We are with you Hermes. I'm the same way. Constantly going over everything in my head. What could I have done differently, Why didn't I notice what was going to happen. Why, why, why till I'm blue in the face. I just want to rush to her side and be with her. I have to fight sending my thoughts to her everyday. Like in your case I think I know what I should do, but I don't like it. Every bit of me wants to fight , fight and then fight some more because I feel I love her so.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

tdwal said:


> What lesson does the sister in law think you need to learn?


They (brother and sister) think that I need to make changes to myself. I need to not rely on her to make me happy. I need to get out of my shell a little and not focus on how sh!tty she is. 

They love me. In fact, they texted me (both of them) last night that they both love me as a blood family member. They said that they would do anything for me and that they are always going to be there for me. They then both thanked me for still considering them family (i introduced them to my sisters friends as my brother and sister in law), which they appreciated more than i thought (i dont consider them anything except family, so it was not anything I did intentionally).


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> We are with you Hermes. I'm the same way. Constantly going over everything in my head. What could I have done differently, Why didn't I notice what was going to happen. Why, why, why till I'm blue in the face. I just want to rush to her side and be with her. I have to fight sending my thoughts to her everyday. Like in your case I think I know what I should do, but I don't like it. Every bit of me wants to fight , fight and then fight some more because I feel I love her so.


i know. The thing is, what good has that done either of us? I have told her I love her until I cant speak and not 10 minutes later she was calling this guy. They need to hit rock bottom to realize what it is to be miserable like us. 

The way I see it is, she has not felt like me. She has not felt the abandonment and rejection or sadness from my absence, because she has this other guy to make her feel whole. The second he is gone, she will fall flat on her face. I know this will happen. I have to have the patience to let it happen. Hopefully, by that time, I am a better person and can decide for myself (and not decide just because I want her back) if I truly want her and if she truly deserves a second chance.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> i know. The thing is, what good has that done either of us? I have told her I love her until I cant speak and not 10 minutes later she was calling this guy. They need to hit rock bottom to realize what it is to be miserable like us.
> 
> The way I see it is, she has not felt like me. She has not felt the abandonment and rejection or sadness from my absence, because she has this other guy to make her feel whole. The second he is gone, she will fall flat on her face. I know this will happen.


Sounds exactly like me. Exactly. I pronounced to her how much she means to me and not a few hours later she's sitting in her car in the garage talking for hours to the OM. 

However I'm not so confident her affair will come screeching to a halt anytime soon. Maybe years later if at all. 

It bothers me that, like you, I am the one feeling the loss and sting of losing something I thought was special while she acts like she is on a grand adventure. With my wife's current demeanor she might as well be skipping through a daisy field whistling 'It's a Wonderful Life'. I keep asking myself with all the things we have done and been through together and all we have said to each other. How could she so easily write me off?

I know I need to move on, but these thoughts linger no matter how much I try and divert my attention.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Sounds exactly like me. Exactly. I pronounced to her how much she means to me and not a few hours later she's sitting in her car in the garage talking for hours to the OM.
> 
> However I'm not so confident her affair will come screeching to a halt anytime soon. Maybe years later if at all.
> 
> ...


Because she is in fairy land with marshmallow skies, edible rainbows and a sun that hands out two scoops of raisins. 

Reality is the last place they both are. 

To be fair, right now, the only thing that I miss (today) about her is that I used to have her walk on my back to crack it. I have no one to do that now. My daughter is only 35 lbs, bless her heart, she tries, but I need more than that. I guess that is not that bad of a thing, when right now that is all I miss.....

Actually, it felt great buying new furniture this weekend and not having to consider if it was too masculine or if she liked the color, etc. I wanted it, so I got it.


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## SCsweety81 (Sep 27, 2012)

Hermes said:


> They (brother and sister) think that I need to make changes to myself. I need to not rely on her to make me happy. I need to get out of my shell a little and not focus on how sh!tty she is.
> 
> They love me. In fact, they texted me (both of them) last night that they both love me as a blood family member. They said that they would do anything for me and that they are always going to be there for me. They then both thanked me for still considering them family (i introduced them to my sisters friends as my brother and sister in law), which they appreciated more than i thought (i dont consider them anything except family, so it was not anything I did intentionally).


Just a word of advice (from personal experience):

When the sh*t hits the fan, they'll side with her.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Because she is in fairy land with marshmallow skies, edible rainbows and a sun that hands out two scoops of raisins.
> 
> Actually, it felt great buying new furniture this weekend and not having to consider if it was too masculine or if she liked the color, etc. I wanted it, so I got it.


I like Marshmallow, edible rainbows and raisins 

I've been considering getting some new furniture. However I've spent so much getting this house and all new essentials I really need to save some money in case of emergencies. Though part of me just wants to go ahead and get the furniture regardless of how muchI drive up my debt. Throw caution to the wind. I mean I've been super financially responsible all my life and where has that got me? nowhere.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

SCsweety81 said:


> Just a word of advice (from personal experience):
> 
> When the sh*t hits the fan, they'll side with her.


Sweety, I would usually agree. In this case, I don't. That does not mean that I am not a realist and know that it is a possibility of that happening. The in laws are one thing. The brother is a different. He has told her on numerous occasions that she is being stupid. He is the one person that I can really confide in. If I lose him, it will hurt, but it is not something that I have not thought of. Until it gets to a point that I would cause them turmoil or have a reason to stop talking to him, I will continue as is. The parents are a totally different story, though.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So I just got a good laugh out because of the ex. I told her the other day to not call me. Text and email only. So what does she do, she has her brother text me to have me bring a sweater for our daughter to him. He was at work, so he could not argue with her. I asked him to stay out of the middle, so there are no hard feelings between us. If she wants something, she can text me. He agreed. He said that was very prudent. He said he only agreed to shut her up since he is at work and could not argue with her right then. He is going to say something tonight. 

He told me she is upset about the no calling. So, she got him to do it. Just pathetic. What a child. I laughed for a good 15 about that.

I did bring him a sweater, because I am not going to let my daughter suffer. I talked to him at work about this and he agreed wi me and he will set boundaries about this with her. Same goes for me. I will not put him in the middle either ( which I don't).


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So I just got a good laugh out because of the ex. I told her the other day to not call me. Text and email only. So what does she do, she has her brother text me to have me bring a sweater for our daughter to him. He was at work, so he could not argue with her. I asked him to stay out of the middle, so there are no hard feelings between us. If she wants something, she can text me. He agreed. He said that was very prudent. He said he only agreed to shut her up since he is at work and could not argue with her right then. He is going to say something tonight.
> 
> He told me she is upset about the no calling. So, she got him to do it. Just pathetic. What a child. I laughed for a good 15 about that.
> 
> I did bring him a sweater, because I am not going to let my daughter suffer. I talked to him at work about this and he agreed wi me and he will set boundaries about this with her. Same goes for me. I will not put him in the middle either ( which I don't).


Good. Stay on course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> Good. Stay on course.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know I will. I just can't take her serious right now. What a joke.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I HATE my father in law SO much right now. I will post later about why. I am too upset to do it now.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Hermes said:


> They (brother and sister) think that I need to make changes to myself. I need to not rely on her to make me happy. I need to get out of my shell a little and not focus on how sh!tty she is.
> 
> That's my biggest problem. I focus on her all day. It's been almost 2 months. I broke weak yesterday and called her. I told her I didn't want a divorce. She told me it was too late.. but she sort of gave me hope. She said I was trying to be a smooth operator. I can't get past the fact she is the love of my life. That's why it hurts so much


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Ostera said:


> Hermes said:
> 
> 
> > They (brother and sister) think that I need to make changes to myself. I need to not rely on her to make me happy. I need to get out of my shell a little and not focus on how sh!tty she is.
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I HATE my father in law SO much right now. I will post later about why. I am too upset to do it now.


We've spoken of in-laws so many times in this forum.

So many are in denial about this issue.

Every... single.... time.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Yep. I will write in more detail, but he pretty much blames me or everything. He blames me her credit is ruined, he blames me she stayed at home with our daughter and lost experience in work, he blames me for giving them the car he signed for, he blames me for leaving the rental an having he have to pay it. He is such an ass. She chose this route, not me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

This a letter I wrote to her today (not sending it of course)

M,

This is hard for me. I do want to talk to you but I wish you could see how hard this has been for me. I think you do not remember that we were married and you think of me as just an ex-boyfriend. As a boyfriend it would be expected to abruptly end our marriage with a simple statement of “It is over” but a marriage should be beaten to death. Both parties should fight their hardest to survive together. To fix the issues together. One day we were married and the next you were on a date with another man. Within 12 hours you went from my wife and the mother of my daughter to something completely different. And no matter what I did during that time you left. I have had no chance to fight for us because you have given me none. I am frustrated and angry and ultimately humiliated. You married me for better or worse and instead of fixing through the worst parts you left me, our family, and everything behind in the blink of an eye. I wish you didn’t expect me to just be ok with everything because I cannot be. But I do know that regardless of your actions or dismissal of me as nothing more than just “some guy” I have come out of it with a clear head and a better understanding of what my faults were and how I contributed to a less than idyllic marriage.

- I am a nice guy. I put you on a pedestal and thought nothing but the world of you. I never thought you would be capable of what you have done. I did not look at you as a sexual person (outside of being with me).
- I never communicated. We would talk, but I never gave my full undivided attention to you. I would always be doing something else or just listening to appease you.
- I never participated in your interests. To be fair, you didn’t participate in mine but I should have been more willing to explore activities with you. That is both of our faults.
- I lied to you. I lied about stupid things that made no sense to lie about. I did this because I was ashamed you would think less of me and leave me. I tried to please you no matter what. This is something that I did with everyone. I would lie to family and friends to make myself look/feel better. My father left me when I was 4 years old and I feared the same would happen if I told you the truth. The thing is the truth was not bad and I know that if I had talked to you honestly you probably would have been more than understanding and we would have moved forward. I regret that but just like you I was still growing up and learning how to be a husband and partner.
- I was very affectionate, but affection to me was sex. I would hold your hands, hug you, kiss you, etc., but usually with the end goal of having sex. I would give you a hug and immediately grab you butt. I always assumed that affection is affection. But I realize now that affection is different from admiration. Sex is not everything.
- I was distant. I am a loner, by nature. I would come home and want to unwind, so I would sit in my room at my PC or do something that I wanted to do.
- I did not have my own activities (other than my PC) that I would do without you. I have NO friends other than family. I would always spend all my free time with family. 
- I shifted blame on you to cover my own insecurities.
- I played the victim, because I would always put you above my own needs and then "woe is me" when my needs were not met.
- I never confronted you with problems that I felt or worries that I had.
- I depended on you to make me happy.
- I NEVER stood up to you. I would always just go along with what you wanted. I was never decisive. I assumed that if I just went along with what you wanted, you would be happy. I did not think that you would want someone that would choose (even if you did not want to do that) what we’re doing/going and stick to it. I always deferred to you for decisions. I do believe that this is almost always an issue in relationships though. 
- I always gave to you and to others with the subconscious understanding that I would get back for it. I never gave for the good of giving. When i did not get something back, I was resentful and bitter.
- I was terrible with our finances. I put not only you, but our family into debt for things that I did. 

I have owned up to all my faults in the breakdown of our marriage. I am working on each one of these now. 


While I am guilty of causing our marriage to collapse there are also choices, actions, etc that were on your side that hurt us. 

Right now, my biggest concern is our daughter. She has already said things about our divorce that hurt me. It can only get worse from here. 
I know that your ultimate goal with our separation was to remain friends but obviously that isn’t going to happen. I think most people who go through a divorce and remain friends have a marriage that fades not one that ends as abruptly as ours did. On top of the fact that in my eyes it didn’t end for any reason other than you taking interest in someone else. I know that marriages don’t break up on an account of infidelity and that it is just a symptom that something else is wrong but I wasn’t even given a chance to know what those symptoms were or correct them to the best of my abilities.

I am also concerned with how outside entities are involved in this situation. I have my family and my attorney telling me to do something but my head and heart tell me otherwise. You have your father and the distraction of another man guiding you down one path. I am sorry about the assumption of the other man’s guidance but without an outside force interfering I know that you would be fighting for us. You’re a good person and at one point we were very much in love. I wish you could remember that. We have built a family together of aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, and children. We aren’t just two people. We became more than that. And I know that you would want to try to keep that together if someone wasn’t trying to rip you away.

I know that you still love me and I know that you know I still love you. I do not know how you feel about me but my heart tells me that you wish that this marriage would work. It might just be wishful thinking but I can’t imagine that something so good could just die so abruptly. It died without warning. I know that times were not always great… But I thought it would always be worth fighting for.

I can’t keep fighting for us and writing these letters to you because I believe they fall on deaf ears. I am competing with a man who didn’t know you for more than a few months yet he was OK with watching you leave your family to have fun with him? And you were OK with it too. 

Through all that has happened I still forgive you. I forgive you for lying to me and sneaking around. I forgive you for talking to another man and betraying our marriage. I forgive you because I know that I have done things to cause you to go that route. 

I hope you can find a way to forgive me too. I apologize for being controlling and manipulative and for ignoring your needs. I regret for every single demeaning remark I made. I am sorry for the constant lying, for the need to hide our financial situation from you, for the poor financial decisions that I made and for hurting you. I am sorry that I never stood up for myself. 

I hope you know that regardless of all that I did, I was always faithful to you. I always loved you and I thought my future was always going to have you in it. 

I was so proud of what we accomplished as a young married couple and I'll be forever thankful that we were so blessed. 

Marrying you and having our daughter was the highlight of my life, thus far, and I'll never regret it. Our marriage taught me to love unconditionally, to forgive, to act selflessly and to be thankful for what I have. The good times made me love you more and the bad made me a better man. 

With all of that said, I cannot continue to feel this way. 
I cannot love a woman that doesn’t love me the way I feel I deserve to be.
I do not expect a wife to “like” her husband every day but I do expect that she will fight for her marriage no matter what. I do not feel that this was done here. 

I hope you understand why I sent this email, why I asked to communicate with me in writing, and why I have acted the way I have. 
This marriage was everything to me as family has always been the most important thing to me. 
You were more than my wife, lover, or best friend. You were family. We were a family.


With care,

M

Let’s move forward...

I did borrow a few lines from sweety's letter, since I thought it was perfect.


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## SCsweety81 (Sep 27, 2012)

Good job, sweetheart.

I know how tough it is to write out those dreadful letters, but it does do ya some good, deep down within your soul. 

Now, sending it is a whole other ballgame.

For the first few minutes after pushing the 'Send' button, I wanted to punch myself in the face; however, for me, it turned out rather well. 

That was literally the first time I'd EVER stood up to my STBXH, so it was an amazing feeling. It was as if I'd been emancipated from years of lies and manipulation. 

It was, without a doubt, the most liberating moment of my married life.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

SCsweety81 said:


> Good job, sweetheart.
> 
> I know how tough it is to write out those dreadful letters, but it does do ya some good, deep down within your soul.
> 
> ...


My issue is I want to send this to her, but I feel like right now it will fall on deaf ears. I need action to back up the changes I am saying I am making. I need to make changes to me that can show I am growing as a person and fixing these faults, not just recognizing them. Obviously, I want her back. Even with what she did, family is the most important thing in my life. But she will not listen now. It will be just another half assed attempt (in her eyes) to reconcile. Her defenses are so raised right now that I can't send this. It would only make things worse.


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## SCsweety81 (Sep 27, 2012)

Hermes said:


> My issue is I want to send this to her, but I feel like right now it will fall on deaf ears. I need action to back up the changes I am saying I am making. I need to make changes to me that can show I am growing as a person and fixing these faults, not just recognizing them. Obviously, I want her back. Even with what she did, family is the most important thing in my life. But she will not listen now. It will be just another half assed attempt (in her eyes) to reconcile. Her defenses are so raised right now that I can't send this. It would only make things worse.


If you want to reconcile, you shouldn't send it ever, in my opinion.

The letter says you can't love the woman she is.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Well I sent a few like that and hated myself afterwards.I always got the same response about how she knows this is hard and how sorry she is and how she loves me, but just doesn't feel in love...blah blah blah.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

SCsweety81 said:


> If you want to reconcile, you shouldn't send it ever, in my opinion.
> 
> The letter says you can't love the woman she is.


I thought about sending it IF she talked about reconciliation and she admitted what she had done. I guess it is mainly for me right now, then.



NoWhere said:


> Well I sent a few like that and hated myself afterwards.I always got the same response about how she knows this is hard and how sorry she is and how she loves me, but just doesn't feel in love...blah blah blah.


I know.  That is why I am not sending it. It will do no good. 

She texted me about if I sent her an email today (we emailed this morning, and I told her I would send her an email later today, but I decided against it), so I sent her a text back saying "I have not sent anything. The email is not important. If you want to discuss issues between us, that is fine. If you want to have open communication over the phone, we can. If not, that is fine too. I will leave that up to you."


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

My god she is infuriating. 

*She just emailed me this:*

M, 

Please find the plan I enrolled in this week, attached.
I enrolled in the PPO 4 plan (as opposed to the 55 for Florida Residents plan), which I realize is more expensive than the latter, but it is only an 8.34 difference for you a month. But the savings on seeing doctors is worth it, I think. I was torn between those two, but after doing the math, I settled on the more “expensive one.” By $8 really…

So you would pay out 60 for her healthcare every 2 weeks.

Please let me know if you have any objections…

Will send out the other docs momentarily…I finally have a moment to do so..

-M
*
I sent her this in response*:

M,

Going forward, I want to make a decision on this. I would have chosen the same one, but if I am paying for something, I want to have an equal say in it.

M

*And then I sent her this right afterwards:*

I am going to get a quote myself for heath insurance for her. Her plan with Humana was only 75 per month total. I am not ok with the pricing on this plan. Her costs are $240 per month, according to your email. I am not willing to pay that, as I believe it is too high of a cost.

*Her response (to the first of my two emails):*

Fair enough. Except that if you and I disagreed, it would get tricky considering it is also my plan, which I don’t want you to necessarily have a say in.  I don’t think there will be anything else tied in like this other than insurance, but if there is in the future, I’ll respect your wish to participate.
*
And her response to the second one:*

What were the costs outside of monthly payment (i.e. doctor visits, etc), and what sort of coverage/deductible did she get?
I have to officially enroll by the end of this week, so please let me know.

*My response to the first:*

If that is the case, then she should not be on your plan. She should be on a mutally agreed on plan. I will get a quote for her directly from a different provider, as I am not ok with this plan.

*Her response:*

Lol Ok. But if the coverage is less, deductible is higher, etc, and you still want to go with a different plan, then you will be covering the difference, as well as the higher copays.

But by all means, if we can go cheaper/keep equally good coverage, then I would like it!
*
My response:*

Fine. Likewise, if I am not ok with your plan, you will cover the difference that I am not willing to pay.

*Her response:*

Haha! Ok. If you want a lower coverage plan we can always put her on Florida KidCare which is free. Just an FYI. I just assumed you wanted her to have good coverage with low deductible…

*My response:*

Of course I want her on a good plan. The fact is, you chose a plan that I had no say in and expect me to blindly follow your decision. I am not Ok with that. I will get another quote. If the coverage is equal, we will BOTH decide on it, as insurance is a joint responsibility. If the coverage is not equal, we will BOTH decide which is the best course of action for her.

No response from her yet. 

Just ridiculous. She thinks that it is only her that gets to chose these things and I am going to continue to blindly agree with her decisions. Bull****. Good luck with that.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Just one suggestion. From reading a few books on different subjects like NMMNG and other books about relationships. All of them suggest to not defend yourself. Just say what you think and don't respond with anything other then "You already know how I feel about that subject" or 'about this issue"

Any exchange that starts with "You did this" or "You did that" is something you want to avoid. 

Again this is just something I've read a few times. 

Not that I see anything wrong with your exchange. Just that it went back and forth so much and I read a little sarcasm, anger in the there.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Just one suggestion. From reading a few books on different subjects like NMMNG and other books about relationships. All of them suggest to not defend yourself. Just say what you think and don't respond with anything other then "You already know how I feel about that subject" or 'about this issue"
> 
> Any exchange that starts with "You did this" or "You did that" is something you want to avoid.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I have read the same thing. I tried not to do that. The only sentence that I started with that is:



> The fact is, you chose a plan that I had no say in and expect me to blindly follow your decision. I am not Ok with that.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

tdwal said:


> Yeah that was sarcasm. You should of just said 'I'm going to get a quote from my insurance to compare. We can go with the better plan.' Act like your talking with a coworker.


Point taken. Other than that, was it fine?


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

As you can see Hermes we are all experts when it comes to other peoples relationships.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

tdwal said:


> Yeah I think your point is fine and she is certainly sarcastic but you guard yourself to keep reacting with same.


How do I get out of that mentality? I don't want her to think she can walk all over me. I want her to know that I am not ok with her actions and that it is unacceptable to sign our daughter up for things and then expect me to cover half the cost without even reviewing it with me first.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> As you can see Hermes we are all experts when it comes to other peoples relationships.


exactly! I know I have become an expert on giving advice. Do I follow what i preach? That is a different story.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I think you did fine.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> exactly! I know I have become an expert on giving advice. Do I follow what i preach? That is a different story.


Have to agree. Matter a fact I should write a book. "How not to do the 180 and win them back"


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## SCsweety81 (Sep 27, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Have to agree. Matter a fact I should write a book. "How not to do the 180 and win them back"


Hahahaha!

I would buy it!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> How do I get out of that mentality? I don't want her to think she can walk all over me. I want her to know that I am not ok with her actions and that it is unacceptable to sign our daughter up for things and then expect me to cover half the cost without even reviewing it with me first.


Tell her exactly what you just wrote.

*I am not ok with signing our daughter up for things and then expecting me to cover half the cost without even reviewing it with me first.*


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Tell her exactly what you just wrote.
> 
> *I am not ok with signing our daughter up for things and then expecting me to cover half the cost without even reviewing it with me first.*


I did tell her that. She did not respond. I did just find out she did not even review the MSA. Her dad has done everything. I am meeting with the atty tomorrow because he (the dad) is trying to make changes that i do not agree with. ******* in laws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I did tell her that. She did not respond. I did just find out she did not even review the MSA. Her dad has done everything. I am meeting with the atty tomorrow because he (the dad) is trying to make changes that i do not agree with. ******* in laws.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She should pay for changes her father wishes to make.

You should cancel your appointment.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I am not going with the intention of making the changes. I am going to get the law from him to shove in the father face on why his changes are not enforceable and how I he wants to continue I will gladly take them to court. I am done playing games with them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I am not going with the intention of making the changes. I am going to get the law from him to shove in the father face on why his changes are not enforceable and how I he wants to continue I will gladly take them to court. I am done playing games with them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


These are encouraging words.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I am done. I just don't care anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

This sucks. I woke up in an absolutely foul mood today. No idea why. I need to get this ***** off my mind.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

The father (through my wife) sent me these revisions last night:

1.9 Allocation of debts is modified as follows:
Any consumer debt that has been accrued by *consent and under full knowledge* of the parties for the use of the marriage and while both parties occupied the marital home shall be the responsibility of both parties equally. Both the husband and the wife must stop any use of the other party’s credit and banking information for obtaining credit, make payments or incur liabilities.

*MY RESPONSE TO THIS WILL BE:*

This is unenforceable as it opens liability on either party. Either party can claim that they had no knowledge of a marital debt solely to remove their personal liability. 

I am waiting for my attorney to get me the actual Florida Statute that states that ALL debts incurred under the marriage (consent or not) are considered marital debt. 

1.9.7 First Time Home-Buyer Credit is modified as follows:
The Parties agree that the $7,500 First Time Home-Buyer Credit issued on their 2009 Tax Returns shall be split evenly amongst both parties. This credit is to be paid back over 15 years to the IRS. This clause is contingent with the Husband providing the wife with copies of the Tax Returns filed for 2009, 2010 and 2011 and copies of all communications with the IRS with regards to this matter including the terms of the payments.


*MY RESPONSE TO THIS WILL BE:*

This clause is not contingent upon documentation provided from the husband, as the wife has full access to these documents by calling the IRS.

2.3.3 Heath Insurance is modified as follows:
The parties agree to make every effort to reduce the minor’s exposure to sick people and potential contagious diseases in the understanding that the minor cannot be sick every month and especially not for weeks at a time. If the child is sick the parents must limit the minor’s exposure to that which is unavoidable other sick kids at day care and not expose the minor to additional sources of potential contagion. Both parents will maintain the minimum of hygiene standards to prevent contagion of parent’s sickness to the minor and arrange for the other parent to care for the minor during those periods in which the stricken parent cannot care properly for the minor.
All Doctor visits and medical necessities shall be discussed with each other before making any appointments, unless it is an emergency. The parties shall split evenly the cost of Health Insurance for the minor child currently $94.00 per month and the cost of all health care costs not covered by Health Insurance. Monies owed each other shall be paid promptly within 30 days unless otherwise agreed.


*MY RESPONSE / THOUGHT TO THIS WILL BE:*

I am not OK with the first clause. Who determines "every effort", how is this enforceable? Is this some ploy for my wife to be able to have her hand on me to have me screw up and she can then fight for full custody since I did not do "my best effort" in preventing my child from being sick. Her family is extremely OCD. They boil plates, quarantine people when they are sick, etc. Kids get sick. I will not do that to my daughter. I just think this is a way for her to try to fight me or control me to get custody of our daughter. She knows she wont get it if we go to court. Florida is very pro equal division. Since I have documented all her actions since the separation, I think I have a good chance of proving she is being a terrible mother and fighting for full custody.

2.6.1 Parties understanding of joint and Several Liability is modified as follows:
The Parties agree and understand that the husband the Husband was solely responsible for preparing filing and paying taxes without participation from the wife or consultation and that the wife intends to seek “Innocent Spouse” status should there be any unpaid taxes other than the First Time Home-Buyer Credit. 


*MY RESPONSE TO THIS WILL BE:*

Whatever. They think I cheated on my taxes. I could care less. I know that my taxes were perfect, so whatever.

All bolds were done by me, not in the letter.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Hermes,

These changes made by the FIL are small and silly and your position on them is valid. I speak from experience drafting and fighting many contracts, though not divorce contracts. That said, the clauses inserted and your issues with them are fairly commonplace.

So, in short, keep going with your pushback. You are in the right.

However, the quantum of changes and their severity do not merit the stress you seem to be exhibiting. You need to detach from the fact that FIL is an a-hole. This is a simple contract negotiation, like you would do when buying a house and negotiating who pays for which fixes. Keep a cool head. Dont get stressed. Remind yourself to breathe everytime you read a lousy ask from FIL.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks. I am stressed because I know what thy are trying to do. I know they are trying to screw me. I am ok losing a pos wife, but not ok losing my daughter or income.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

I understand Hermes. 

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. You will come out ok. Also if you are so worried about losing the daughter / income, you must realize that getting worked up will be counterproductive. 

If there are things you typically do to relieve stress, try doing those more often. Dont read the documents without these small breaks...just a thought.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Well, I just found out for sure that they are together. Her brother told me he met the guy 2 weeks ago. He exceeded his expectations for what a ********* is. He said he met him when he walked into his apartment (our old apartment) and he was there with my wife (around 10pm) sitting inside with sunglasses on his head (not on his eyes). He immediately started ragging on my brother in law. Thinking they were friends or something. He showed up with a lottery ticket and a protein shake as a gift for my brother in law. HA! He then made comments about stupid things. My brother and sister in law HATE him. 

He then called my wife on Saturday and asked "do you have a TV, or do I need to buy one?". My wife asked "why?", his response is "College Footbal", she told him they do not have cable. His response was "I am not coming over then". The brother told my wife that he is an ******* and a douche. He told her that he let it slide one time, but not again. She agreed that he is an ass. WTF?

She knows he is an ass and yet she wants to be with him.

What a douche.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Also, she started complaining about how much of an ass I am to my brother in law (due to the insurance stuff yesterday). He told her that she is ridiculous. He told her that she can not make decisions for our daughter that do not involve me. He told her that we are divorced, she has no say in ANY decision that would involve our daughter without my approval.

I love that guy. Really, other than my daughter, he is the best thing to come out of my marriage. I really hope we never get to a point where we need to go NC.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Well, I just found out for sure that they are together. Her brother told me he met the guy 2 weeks ago. He exceeded his expectations for what a ********* is. He said he met him when he walked into his apartment (our old apartment) and he was there with my wife (around 10pm) sitting inside with sunglasses on his head (not on his eyes). He immediately started ragging on my brother in law. Thinking they were friends or something. He showed up with a lottery ticket and a protein shake as a gift for my brother in law. HA! He then made comments about stupid things. My brother and sister in law HATE him.
> 
> He then called my wife on Saturday and asked "do you have a TV, or do I need to buy one?". My wife asked "why?", his response is "College Footbal", she told him they do not have cable. His response was "I am not coming over then". The brother told my wife that he is an ******* and a douche. He told her that he let it slide one time, but not again. She agreed that he is an ass. WTF?
> 
> ...


I actually wish I heard stories like this about my ex. Its obvious the guy will wear thin on her eventually if he's such a *********. <--- I can say douche , but not add ..bag to it? WTF? :scratchhead:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> She knows he is an ass and yet she wants to be with him.


How far did being a niceguy get you?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I actually wish I heard stories like this about my ex. Its obvious the guy will wear thin on her eventually if he's such a *********. <--- I can say douche , but not add ..bag to it? WTF? :scratchhead:


i know. i thought the same thing. my brother in law says the same thing. This is not going to last. He will ear on her, she will ear on him and it will go nuclear. 

My problem is it is in OUR house. We were just a married couple 40 days ago in that house. WE were intimate in that house less than 2 months ago and now some douche is in it sleeping with my wife. It just pisses me off.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How far did being a niceguy get you?


8 years and now nothing.....

Obviously being a nice guy is not working.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> i know. i thought the same thing. my brother in law says the same thing. This is not going to last. He will ear on her, she will ear on him and it will go nuclear.
> 
> My problem is it is in OUR house. We were just a married couple 40 days ago in that house. WE were intimate in that house less than 2 months ago and now some douche is in it sleeping with my wife. It just pisses me off.


LET IT GO

This line of thought will wear you down and out.

It leads nowhere.

posOM is irrelevant to your life.

In many ways, so is she.

What are YOU going to do about you?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> LET IT GO
> 
> This line of thought will wear you down and out.
> 
> ...


I know. I am going to keep doing what i am doing. Going to the gym, having my daughter, going out, etc. I know he is irrelevant. I know she is as well. She does not even have the decency to review our MSA. What a gem. I am done with her. It is just the thought of them together upsets me. 

To be fair, I am glad that she is with an ******* like that though. I hope she gets used and thrown out, just like she did to me....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> What a gem. I am done with her. It is just the thought of them together upsets me.
> 
> To be fair, I am glad that she is with an ******* like that though. I hope she gets used and thrown out, just like she did to me....


This is not the language of someone who has let it go.

Are you still in IC?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> This is not the language of someone who has let it go.
> 
> Are you still in IC?


yes i am still going. 

i have let go the hope of reconciliation. I have let go that she is still my wife. I have let go the hopes of having a friendship or amicable relationship after what has happened. I have not let go of the anger i feel towards her and the desire to have her feel the same way she has made me feel. Is that wrong?

maybe I am being too harsh. I do not want physical harm to come to her. I just want her to feel the emotional toll she has caused me. I know detach and not care what she feels. I know. Easier said than done. I am trying.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Sometimes I just don't understand women. They are subconsciously attracted to Alpha qualities, but mindfully want Beta. Leaving men to have to walk a tightrope. Men and women are always going to be attracted to someone else at times. In my case while I may find another women attractive or enjoy when one flirts with me I would have never left my wife for one of them. Because I made vows and was committed to the relationship. Right now as much as I love my wife I hate her guts.

You read some of the books about nice guys and being Alpha. You see that there are quite a few men that act pure Alpha. They never have long term relationships and just go from one women to the next getting what they want, but treating them like garbage. yet they have no issues picking up women.

Being dumped, divorced and feeling like you've been one of these nice guys really makes you think about jumping to the other side and just being a total jerk.

Sorry I'm just in a foul mood.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> yes i am still going.
> 
> i have let go the hope of reconciliation. I have let go that she is still my wife. I have let go the hopes of having a friendship or amicable relationship after what has happened. I have not let go of the anger i feel towards her and the desire to have her feel the same way she has made me feel. Is that wrong?
> 
> maybe I am being too harsh. I do not want physical harm to come to her. I just want her to feel the emotional toll she has caused me. I know detach and not care what she feels. I know. Easier said than done. I am trying.


As long as your focus and thoughts are pre-occupied with her and posOM, you are missing opportunities - EVERY DAY - to do things for you that improve your situation.

Here's the thing.

Emotional energy is a zero-sum game.

You only have so much to spend every single day. As we get older, we have less each day

Staying @50,000 feet and doing the next logical thing that improves your life. That could be:

1) Improving your bond with your child
2) Taking a vacation
3) Pursuing a hobby
4) Going out socially with people
5) Improving your job skills

Get the idea?

ALL these things require emotional energy and agency.

ANY amount of that vital self of yours that is spent on posOM and her saps the proactive energy that will build your life.

You want to be mad at them?

That's great. Go ahead and be mad.

BUT.. CHANNEL the energy into something productive for you.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> As long as your focus and thoughts are pre-occupied with her and posOM, you are missing opportunities - EVERY DAY - to do things for you that improve your situation.


like always, you are right. I need to find a way to get it out of my mind.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

I think Conrad is always right. At the very least his batting average is 99%


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I am responding to her email about the changes to the MSA. I want to see what you think before i send it.

M,

I had a chance to review your adjustments with my attorney today. He has advised me against signing with these changes added to the agreement. The changes that were presented expose both parties to unwarranted liability and therefore, I am not OK agreeing to the terms. If you want to discuss with me the concerns over these changes, you can contact me. If you and your father want to meet with me to discuss, I am open to that, however, please be advised that I will not tolerate being yelled at or disrespected. If that happens, I will leave and we will not continue the discussion until such a time that we can talk in a productive environment. If these changes are non negotiable to you, I would suggest you contact an attorney, so we can move forward with going to court.

Is this too much? The point I want to get across is that I will not sign this, I am not ok with it, I do not want to go to court, but I am willing to go if need be.

thoughts?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too much.

Try this:

M,

I reviewed your adjustments with my attorney. I am not OK agreeing with these terms. If these changes are non-negotiable I suggest retaining an attorney, so we can move forward with going to court.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Too much.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> ...


Thanks.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Well, I just found out for sure that they are together. Her brother told me he met the guy 2 weeks ago. He exceeded his expectations for what a ********* is. He said he met him when he walked into his apartment (our old apartment) and he was there with my wife (around 10pm) sitting inside with sunglasses on his head (not on his eyes). He immediately started ragging on my brother in law. Thinking they were friends or something. He showed up with a lottery ticket and a protein shake as a gift for my brother in law. HA! He then made comments about stupid things. My brother and sister in law HATE him.
> 
> He then called my wife on Saturday and asked "do you have a TV, or do I need to buy one?". My wife asked "why?", his response is "College Footbal", she told him they do not have cable. His response was "I am not coming over then". The brother told my wife that he is an ******* and a douche. He told her that he let it slide one time, but not again. She agreed that he is an ass. WTF?
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, you mean your wife right???


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Just to clarify, you mean your wife right???


Both of them. So to change, douches.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Listen to Conrad.

And until you let her go, you cannot be free to use your brain on more important issues like yourself and your D.

Until you give up on R it will not happen. Your wife is not in this picture.

So focus on you. Fix you.

If you can think like that you will be fine. He'll, you will be great.

HM64


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Both of them. So to change, douches.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent. I concur.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> Listen to Conrad.
> 
> ...


I will try. I feel better this morning. I know that they were together last night and it does not bother me as much. What can i do about it, ya know? I can sit here and sulk or I can get productive. 

This morning, I did have a chat with a girl (my daughters teacher) who has had a thing for me. It was nice. I am not looking for anything from her, but it was nice to at least talk to the opposite sex in that way. The attention felt good. Obviously, I am in no position to date or drag someone else into my crazy life, so I wont. 



happyman64 said:


> Excellent. I concur.


Yep. They both are douches, but not my problem anymore. On to better things......

I did speak to Whole Foods today about getting my Gluten free deserts in their store in South Florida. After the new year, I have an appointment with the regional office to see. I have to perfect the recipes to account for the increase in size, though. I am starting a few cooking classes, as well (I LOVE to cook, but I never learn professionally, just hands on). My wife is gluten intolerant, so I perfected a lot of desert recipes (since she is a chocoholic) that everyone loves. Then i am going to finish my MCITP course. All in all, time to start improving myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes,

Ask your daughter's teacher out for coffee.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> Ask your daughter's teacher out for coffee.


That was the plan. I will be up front with her about the situation, though. She knows I am going through a divorce, since I asked her to look after my daughter to see if she has any change in her behavior (she does, she is acting out a little more, being more dramatic, crying, and clingy). I do not want to lead her on. But who knows maybe it will go somewhere unexpected.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> That was the plan. I will be up front with her about the situation, though. She knows I am going through a divorce, since I asked her to look after my daughter to see if she has any change in her behavior (she does, she is acting out a little more, being more dramatic, crying, and clingy). I do not want to lead her on. But who knows maybe it will go somewhere unexpected.


Just tell her you're not ready for any physical stuff.

Get to know her as a friend and as a person.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Just tell her you're not ready for any physical stuff.
> 
> Get to know her as a friend and as a person.


That is what i was thinking.

thanks Conrad!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Practice makes perfect. Especially if you are rusty......



> All in all, time to start improving myself.


:iagree:

And that is the key to life. Improving yourself!!!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So our daughter had a dr appt this morning. I take her. I text my ex after the appt this:

She has a cold. Claritin once a day. Also nebulizer every day. 3/4 tsp of children's Claritin once per day. Visit was 30.*

Her response was 

Got it. Will pay you when we switch shifts.

20 minutes later I get another text from her:

Btw. Can I call you tonight? Had questions about the whereabouts of some things here and rather than type, would be easier to just ask. Whew! Lot to type now even... It willbe quick. 

I respond with

Sure. 

She talks like we are friends and that nothing is wrong. Wtf.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So our daughter had a dr appt this morning. I take her. I text my ex after the appt this:
> 
> She has a cold. Claritin once a day. Also nebulizer every day. 3/4 tsp of children's Claritin once per day. Visit was 30.*
> 
> ...


She's detached. You're not.

Keep working on yourself.

And, ask the teacher out for coffee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Still focused on her?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> She's detached. You're not.
> 
> Keep working on yourself.
> 
> ...


I know that. I know that she does not give 2 ****s about me right now. I know I am still detaching. I will ask the teacher out for coffee. 

My question was really why? Why pretend that we are friends. Does she expect me to be nice and civil to her, so she can ease her guilt about what she has done/is doing? Or is it simply she does not care at all and is being what she thinks is normal..


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Still focused on her?


I guess so. I thought I was not focusing on her really anymore. But, apparently I am.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Who cares?

As long as you are focusing on why and what she is doing, you're not detaching.

Hanging on her every word and action isn't go to get you where you need to be, brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I guess so. I thought I was not focusing on her really anymore. But, apparently I am.


That's what we're here for.

What do YOU want to do today?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That's what we're here for.
> 
> What do YOU want to do today?


Spend time with my daughter. Not care about the wife. That is what I want everyday right now. Since I have my daughter, we will go to the park, go see family, etc. 

She just called. She wanted to get it off her list. Of course, we got into an argument. She started to argue about finances and I said I do not want to argue, we will deal with this over email. She continued. She said "why the hell are you so abrasive?" I did not respond. She called about stupid things that could have easily been done over email or text. Where was the coupon book for the car. When was I getting our daughter for thanksgiving. When was I dropping her off? There were cd's in my desk, did I want them. There were Comcast boxes in our shed. Did I want those? All stuff that could have been through email or text. She went down her list and said that is it, I said bye and hung up. 

I texted her to unlock the shed I will come get my stuff shortly. She said ok, if you want. I said yes, leave it unlocked. 

I am going to tell her again that these things need to be through email and text. I do not want to talk the her on the phone. Or do I drop it and not say anything.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I hate this. Every time this happened, I feel like I am taking steps backwards.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I hate this. Every time this happened, I feel like I am taking steps backwards.


Do you realize how big a step it is to "recognize" there is a problem and to accurately identify it?

Be patient with yourself.

I was going to ask why you're allowing her to call.

But, you're already on that too.

No more announcements.

You're simply "not ok" with phone calls. That's all there is to it.

Any sort of "announcement" insidiously seeks her approval.

You do see that, don't you?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Do you realize how big a step it is to "recognize" there is a problem and to accurately identify it?
> 
> Be patient with yourself.
> 
> ...


Yes I do see that. I see that by me telling her no more phone calls I am opening to fighting with her and getting more of her passive aggressive BS that will only push me back more. 

I see that I am trying to get a reaction out of her by telling her that. 

I see that I am trying not to be abrasive and mean to her and that is doing NO good. I see that I talk to her and I still have no ability to enforce the oundaries I set up. I should have hung up on her when she started arguing with me. I should have hung up when I told her we can finish this in email, since I do not want to argue and she laughed at me. I need to enforce my boundaries with her more. I need to stop allowing her to speak to me as if she is still my wife.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Yes I do see that. I see that by me telling her no more phone calls I am opening to fighting with her and getting more of her passive aggressive BS that will only push me back more.
> 
> I see that I am trying to get a reaction out of her by telling her that.
> 
> I see that I am trying not to be abrasive and mean to her and that is doing NO good. I see that I talk to her and I still have no ability to enforce the oundaries I set up. I should have hung up on her when she started arguing with me. I should have hung up when I told her we can finish this in email, since I do not want to argue and she laughed at me. I need to enforce my boundaries with her more. I need to stop allowing her to speak to me as if she is still my wife.


Yes

A quick follow-up.

You also need to realize that "allowing her to speak to you as if she is your wife" is another revealing statement.

My wife doesn't speak to me that way. Most men in healthy marriages don't have their wives speak to them that way.

They love themselves too much to permit it.

See how this works?

And, no, you don't have to be abrasive.

You just have to know what you are - and are not - ok with.

And, you have to speak up.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I do know what I a ok with and not ok with. I just don't enforce it. 
Knowing something and then acting on it is a different story for me. I can not help being abrasive with her. I hear her voice and my blood literally boils. When we just talked,I heard the posom in the background. Just boiling. 

I need to detach more. I got to a point where I know what they are doing and it only mildly bothers me. Much better than a few weeks ago when I would obsess about every little thing she does. 

I guess I am so used to how she talks to me it seems normal.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You just "can't help it"?

An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Take your power back Hermes.

Read this link again.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I do know what I a ok with and not ok with. I just don't enforce it.
> Knowing something and then acting on it is a different story for me. I can not help being abrasive with her. I hear her voice and my blood literally boils. When we just talked,I heard the posom in the background. Just boiling.
> 
> *I need to detach more. *I got to a point where I know what they are doing and it only mildly bothers me. Much better than a few weeks ago when I would obsess about every little thing she does.
> ...


You can detach by being an observer in a way such that your feelings and emotions don’t kick in, hijack you and take a hold.


Read Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality: Anthony De Mello, J. Francis Stroud: 9780385249379: Amazon.com: Books he’ll teach you how. He’s helped quite a few people here to see and really understand what’s going on inside and outside of themselves, to see the reality of the situations.


You’ll also benefit from reading Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men: Wayne M. Levine: 9780979054402: Amazon.com: Books. Both books are life changing and last a lifetime.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Can I make one other suggestion.

Throw a party!

A "One month without the ball & chain party".

Invite your friends. Make sure some single Guys and girls are there too.

Just to shake things up for you. Do not think of your wife. Because she is not thinking of you.

Think of your future.

It will be what you make of it.

Just do something you have never one before.....


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

She jut texted me:

You did not give me a time this weekend that you would be available to pick up 1/2 of Daughters things. Why not?

Should I even respond I this? We have been out all weekend, so I have not had time. I want to tell her to just email what she wants and I can get it packed for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So I had to see the ex today for the first time in 2 weeks to drop off my daughter. Good news, I was not attracted to her physically. I was very short with answers to her. She asked me a question and I answered and got up to leave. I walked out the door and kept going. She said "[email protected] ridiculous" and slammed the door. I forgot something in the car, so I went back, knocked on the door and she snatched the clothes from my hand and slamme the door in my face. 

I called her brother to talk (he is on his way to my house to watch walking dead). I told him what happened and he said that she is upset with me because I am not being friendly with her. HA! She is lucky she is getting anything from me. I don't care if she wants me to be friendly and it upsets her that I am not. I am not trying to reconcile any more so I do not care if she loves or hates me. She made her bed, now it is time to sleep in it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So I had to see the ex today for the first time in 2 weeks to drop off my daughter. Good news, I was not attracted to her physically. I was very short with answers to her. She asked me a question and I answered and got up to leave. I walked out the door and kept going. She said "[email protected] ridiculous" and slammed the door. I forgot something in the car, so I went back, knocked on the door and she snatched the clothes from my hand and slamme the door in my face.
> 
> I called her brother to talk (he is on his way to my house to watch walking dead). I told him what happened and he said that she is upset with me because I am not being friendly with her. HA! She is lucky she is getting anything from me. I don't care if she wants me to be friendly and it upsets her that I am not. I am not trying to reconcile any more so I do not care if she loves or hates me. She made her bed, now it is time to sleep in it.


Good for you.

But realize she not only expects you to be all nice and friendly, she also expects to retain control of you and your relationship with her.

Shake up her world.

And never give her that control.

HM64


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> But realize she not only expects you to be all nice and friendly, she also expects to retain control of you and your relationship with her.
> 
> ...


Thanks. The only thing I need to control is my anger around her. It is getting better. I can at least identify it , but only after it happens I need to recognize before I say anything. Work in progress.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> But realize she not only expects you to be all nice and friendly, she also expects to retain control of you and your relationship with her.
> 
> ...


How would she try to control me and our relationship? I would like to be prepared, so I can notice when she is trying to do these things.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

She will try to dominate your conversation with her.

She will try to control YOU by throwing a temper tantrum when you say something she does like or want to hear.

JUst stay calm around her.keep your meetings short and do nonot engage with her except regarding your child.

I am sure your relationship with her brother kills her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> She will try to dominate your conversation with her.
> 
> She will try to control YOU by throwing a temper tantrum when you say something she does like or want to hear.
> 
> ...


Hermes,

Here's the key thing.

You have some indication of the chaos that exists between her ears.

The more you allow her to dump that chaos on you, the worse off you'll be.

She has to own her own chaos.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> She will try to dominate your conversation with her.
> 
> She will try to control YOU by throwing a temper tantrum when you say something she does like or want to hear.
> 
> ...


I am sure it does kill her. She is trying to get him to be friends with the new guy. The brother has already told her that he is fiercely loyal to me and that he HATES this guy. He wants to punch him every time he sees him (not because of me, but because he is genuinely a douche, think Jersey Shore type meat-head ass). She invited my brother in law to thanksgiving at the OM house, and is trying to get them to be friends, but he will not. So, I am sure she is upset that her brother is choosing me over her new man. He came to my house last night, which I am sure upset her. Whatever. 

She does throw temper tantrums when i do not give in to her. She then just says that I am abrasive and an ******* to her. So, i guess she is already doing that.

I will pay attention to how I speak to her. I need to be calm around her. What really gets me mad is the mental movies of them. The rest I am ok with, but then I think about what they are doing and i get upset....i know that is something that needs to end. 

I am taking your advice right now about the MSA. I have not brought it up any more. I am going to let it sink in with her for now. I will not engage her about it, until I am ready to.



Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> Here's the key thing.
> 
> ...


I get that. She needs to see the chaos first. I know she will, but it is the waiting for it to happen that is making me crazy. i am not a patient person, so having to wait for this is just agonizing. 

I am not taking any more of her crap right now. I need to separate the crap from genuine issues (like child related things). I just do want to give her anything. I need to change that and be calm and dispassionate around her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes,

I used to be very impatient as well.

Once you get through the therapy and get centered, you'll find you have endless patience - because you'll be on the right road.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> I used to be very impatient as well.
> 
> Once you get through the therapy and get centered, you'll find you have endless patience - because you'll be on the right road.



Thanks. I hope to be there shortly. It is time that is doing the most damage to me. I don't care if we get back together right now, as I see how she acting and it honestly disgusts me. I can not see me loving her like that right now. Time apart is needed. 

Here is my checklist of things I need to do:

- Give up hope that we will reconcile.
- Continue therapy (I am going tomorrow)
- Look into Co-dependants anonymous
- Continue to go to the gym (I am a skinny guy and I already have people telling me how much bigger I am looking)
- Go on dates (not sexual) with women
- Make new friends
- Work on my issues that I listed on page 1. This is a key point in tomorrows therapy session
- stop focusing on what she is doing and with who
- Give up the anger. Stop being so upset about this
- Realize that no one owes me anything. I need to make myself happy
- get a few new hobbies. i already joined meetup and will start a yoga class, paintball team and triathlon training team
- be a better dad

Giving up hope is hard, since I have no doubt that she will be back. I need to let her go, if I want her to realize I am not going to be there for her anymore.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. I hope to be there shortly. It is time that is doing the most damage to me. I don't care if we get back together right now, as I see how she acting and it honestly disgusts me. I can not see me loving her like that right now. Time apart is needed.
> 
> Here is my checklist of things I need to do:
> 
> ...


Excellent list, sir! Good for you on getting your ball rolling!!!

One thing I will say thou - don't worry about what she does and doesn't realize. To me, and just my opinion, that's still keeping some focus on her. Forget her, yes, I know, much easier said than done, but... I used to hope my STBXH would wake up and realize some things too - that is until I figured out that what he says, does, thinks, feels or even happens to realize is of no importance to me. It does nothing for me and benefits me in no way. 

You realize that you're no longer gonna be there for her and that should be enough you. You and your daughter are the only people you need to focus on right now. 

Like I said, forget what the X figures out on her own. With the way she's acting out it already sounds like she's noticing her grip on you is loosening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks ee. That is a great point. Thank you!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I hate leg day at the gym. Leg and chest are the worst. Good new is I used to be able to wrap my hand around my bicep. I am VERY skinny. 5'11" and 140 lbs (if lucky) but since this crap happened I try to do that now and there is about 2 inch growth. Woot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I hate leg day at the gym. Leg and chest are the worst. Good new is I used to be able to wrap my hand around my bicep. I am VERY skinny. 5'11" and 140 lbs (if lucky) but since this crap happened I try to do that now and there is about 2 inch growth. Woot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good job! Keep at it. I'm naturally skinny too and have to constantly work out, but my biggest problem is mostly eating habits.
If you want to gain muscle you have to eat lots of protein. Even then you have to eat your daily calorie intake +500 calories.
The thing that kills me at the gym is squats. I hate doing those, but they are quite possible one of the best excercises to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Good job! Keep at it. I'm naturally skinny too and have to constantly work out, but my biggest problem is mostly eating habits.
> If you want to gain muscle you have to eat lots of protein. Even then you have to eat your daily calorie intake +500 calories.
> The thing that kills me at the gym is squats. I hate doing those, but they are quite possible one of the best excercises to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You and me are on the same page. My eating is what does me in. I am not a big eater (especially now, I still have no appetite). I do have a shake with 30g protein in the morning and then another at lunch with 52g protein. 

I am going 2 times a day to the gym now (on days I do not have my daughter), on days I do have her, I am going at lunch only. I would definetly be bigger if I ate properly. I did give up soda and candy when this whole thing happened, so I am eating healthier at least. I just need to eat more.

Squats are terrible. My thing is the inverted military press. Good god. I hate being at a incline where my head is facing the ground and trying to bench. Damn near killed me yesterday.

On a side note, today has been good. I woke up and, of course, thought of my wife, but that quickly went away. I am definitely detaching more each day. Last week, I was looking at her facebook, looking at her blog, etc to see what she was doing. I thought about it this morning, but instantly said "No, screw that, what do I care what she is doing". Getting better every day.

I am going to start referring to her to other people as my exwife now. I think that will help me detach more. 

Last night, I actually felt fine being home by myself. I sat on the couch and watched a few TV shows, cooked a roast and checked TAM. I went to bed and thought, this is nice to have a king size bed all to myself. I slept in the dead center. It was a good feeling. 

So far, so good.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Leg day for me!

I love chest / tri day though.

And shoulders .. and back lol.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Leg day for me!
> 
> I love chest / tri day though.
> 
> And shoulders .. and back lol.


this morning was leg day, lunch is biceps. I love bicep day. I see an improvement immediately, plus I just feel jacked after it. Chest day sucks. It is the hardest by far. I already see an improvement, though. I actually have some cleavage now, so that is a good thing. I feel like walking around with my chest out. Feels good looking good.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Last night, I actually felt fine being home by myself. I sat on the couch and watched a few TV shows, cooked a roast and checked TAM. I went to bed and thought, this is nice to have a king size bed all to myself. I slept in the dead center. It was a good feeling.


I need to do that. For some reason I still sleep on 'my side' of the bed, king sized too.
Sometimes I wake up and look over expecting my wife to be there purely out of habit. I think I'll make a effort to lay smack in the middle!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I need to do that. For some reason I still sleep on 'my side' of the bed, king sized too.
> Sometimes I wake up and look over expecting my wife to be there purely out of habit. I think I'll make a effort to lay smack in the middle!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have been doing that too. I moved, bought a new bed, new frame, etc and still found myself sleeping on my "side" of the bed. Screw that. I slept in the middle last night. It felt great.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I hate leg day at the gym. Leg and chest are the worst. Good new is I used to be able to wrap my hand around my bicep. I am VERY skinny. 5'11" and 140 lbs (if lucky) but since this crap happened I try to do that now and there is about 2 inch growth. Woot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right on, Hermes!

I love discovering progression resulting from the gym.

It makes me a happy, happy girl!


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> this morning was leg day, lunch is biceps. I love bicep day. I see an improvement immediately, plus I just feel jacked after it. Chest day sucks. It is the hardest by far. I already see an improvement, though. I actually have some cleavage now, so that is a good thing. I feel like walking around with my chest out. Feels good looking good.


If I were to get on a diet I'm confident I'd drop the last 20-25 I want to.

I've kept the 50 off since May.

Biceps are my least favorite only due to my right arm is giving me trouble.

Should really get it looked.at lol.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Biceps are my least favorite only due to my right arm is giving me trouble.
> 
> Should really get it looked.at lol.


My mind just totally went in the gutter on that one!:rofl:


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Good for you ee. My mind is permanently there, so it is nice to have company.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> My mind just totally went in the gutter on that one!:rofl:


I'm a southpaw


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Good for you ee. My mind is permanently there


Mine, too.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I want to check out what she is doing so bad right now. I want to check her facebook and her blog to see if there is any update. I am not going to, but I want to. Why is she so hard to break away from?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I want to check out what she is doing so bad right now. I want to check her facebook and her blog to see if there is any update. I am not going to, but I want to. Why is she so hard to break away from?


In the words of Spun:

"Because you're codependent."


Hang in there, hon.

You're stronger than you know.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> In the words of Spun:
> 
> "Because you're codependent."
> 
> ...


thanks. I know I am codependent. It sucks. I hate feeling like this. I want to look to see if she wrote anything that would give me any hope. I KNOW that she did not and that it does not matter if she did or did not. I know that, most likely, she wrote something that would just set me back. I will not look, but I desperately want to.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

So, find something else to do.

I'll set up a FB account for you to read ALL DAY.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> thanks. I know I am codependent. It sucks. I hate feeling like this. I want to look to see if she wrote anything that would give me any hope. I KNOW that she did not and that it does not matter if she did or did not. I know that, most likely, she wrote something that would just set me back. I will not look, but I desperately want to.


If she wants to be with you, you won't have to look.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If she wants to be with you, you won't have to look.


i know and that is why i am not looking. Last week I would have acted on that and looked at her facebook (i have her username and password), her blog, her call logs, etc. Now, I know better. i know it will only set me back, but I still want to. I guess that is improvement. Baby steps.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> i know and that is why i am not looking. Last week I would have acted on that and looked at her facebook (i have her username and password), her blog, her call logs, etc. Now, I know better. i know it will only set me back, but I still want to. I guess that is improvement. Baby steps.


Self-regulation is key to a better you.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Self-regulation is key to a better you.


i am trying as hard as i can. I really am. I desperately want to be better.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I am going to a CODA meeting tonight at 7pm. I will post later tonight about it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, I am going to a CODA meeting tonight at 7pm. I will post later tonight about it.


We're counting on you.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> We're counting on you.


I am such a sucker. I actually teared up reading this at my desk. To know that I have strangers that care about me more than people that I know and love is a feeling that I can not explain. 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> To know that I have strangers that care about me more than people that I know and love is a feeling that I can not explain.


It's incredibly humbling, isn't it?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> It's incredibly humbling, isn't it?


It really is. I had to compose myself at my desk. No idea why a simple statement like that (one that I have had many times before), hit me like that......


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It really is. I had to compose myself at my desk. No idea why a simple statement like that (one that I have had many times before), hit me like that......


Getting the reassurance from others who have no personal agenda against or for you is a nice feeling indeed.

It can lift you out of that crappy mood for sure.

Being able to reassure yourself though, that's a whole lot better in the long run.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I need to do that. For some reason I still sleep on 'my side' of the bed, king sized too.
> Sometimes I wake up and look over expecting my wife to be there purely out of habit. I think I'll make a effort to lay smack in the middle!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sleep diagonally on a slant. That way there are no sides......


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And Hermes

Go do something different or unique and put it on your FB page.

When I was feeling blue many years ago I went and volunteered my time at the local Ronald McDonald House.

When I started seeing those kids fighting cancer many of my problems disappeared.

Not because they went away but because I realized what real problems really looked like.

Go better yourself. And just maybe you will be helping someone else at the same time.

It could be a complete stranger.

I have a friend from another forum going through what you are. He is 1 year out from DDay. He has custody of his 2 daughters. They are both under 7 years of age.

He told me that I was a blessing in his life. I said I do not consider myself a blessing, I am just his friend.

You have many friends on here Hermes. Keep moving forward.

And add that post to your FB page soon.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> And Hermes
> 
> Go do something different or unique and put it on your FB page.
> 
> When I was feeling blue many years ago I went and volunteered my time at the local Ronald McDonald House.


Happy,

You thought nobody had a camera:


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks you all. So, I went to the meeting tonight. It was really good. I got to talk to others and see just how serious codependency is. A lot of the people there were for multiple years. I got my coda chip too. I observed more than participated tonight. I will go every Tuesday from now on. I thought it went really well. I was very nervous at first, but as the meeting went on, I got more comfortable. 

I have to get used to the structure that the meeting presents. I don't think it can replace therapy for codependency, but it was nice to be with people that will not judge me for my faults. 

My ex wife call to have my daughter say goodnight. She call me honey but then immediately correct herself. I would have thought about this before. What did it mean? Did she want me back, etc. tonight I just thought, she screwed up, habit coming out and did not think anything more about it. 

I need to realize I can not control anyone. I am the only one that is important in my life (except for my daughter). 

I signed up for a few things today as well. I am taking pilot lessons, as well as starting training for a triathlon. 

I will post something awesome on my Facebook page too. Maybe I will donate (and take my daughter) time to a child therapy like Ronald McDonald house. I live 20 miles from a world renowned child cancer hospital.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks you all. So, I went to the meeting tonight. It was really good. I got to talk to others and see just how serious codependency is. A lot of the people there were for multiple years. I got my coda chip too. I observed more than participated tonight. I will go every Tuesday from now on. I thought it went really well. I was very nervous at first, but as the meeting went on, I got more comfortable.
> 
> I have to get used to the structure that the meeting presents. I don't think it can replace therapy for codependency, but it was nice to be with people that will not judge me for my faults.
> 
> ...


I'm proud of you, darlin'!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Thanks you all. So, I went to the meeting tonight. It was really good. I got to talk to others and see just how serious codependency is. A lot of the people there were for multiple years. I got my coda chip too. I observed more than participated tonight. I will go every Tuesday from now on. I thought it went really well. I was very nervous at first, but as the meeting went on, I got more comfortable.
> 
> I have to get used to the structure that the meeting presents. I don't think it can replace therapy for codependency, but it was nice to be with people that will not judge me for my faults.
> 
> ...


Take that picture of Happy as Ronald McDonald and post it on your page.

All kidding aside, I've heard that codependency is the most difficult of all psychological issues to self-regulate.

Congrats on a strong first step in that direction.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And find that sense of humor Hermes, Conrad will show you how...

Very funny Conrad, I do tend to keep my hair shorter these days so people do not recognize me.
:rofl:


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Good for you ee. My mind is permanently there, so it is nice to have company.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, anytime your mind is loney and hanging out in the gutter - just look around, I'm sure you'll find me there somewhere!


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Also, this has been bugging me for a while...

Did you know that they named an engraving machine after you?

I do custom engraving for the yachts in my area and have a big C&C engraving machine... it's got a fancy title: New Hermes IS7000 - so now every time I work on my machine I have a little chuckle...


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Take that picture of Happy as Ronald McDonald and post it on your page.
> 
> All kidding aside, I've heard that codependency is the most difficult of all psychological issues to self-regulate.
> 
> Congrats on a strong first step in that direction.


It is. I do think that I am slightly ahead of the curve (thanks to this site). A lot oif the members were talking about step 4, which is making a list of your faults and moral inventory. I feel that I did a good job of that on the first page of this thread. I think i can figure out more, but I definetly think I am off to a good start. 



happyman64 said:


> And find that sense of humor Hermes, Conrad will show you how...
> 
> Very funny Conrad, I do tend to keep my hair shorter these days so people do not recognize me.
> :rofl:


But then we just look for the Ronald McDonald pushing a shopping cart with short hair.......

Thankfully, my sense of humor did not go anywhere. 



Eternal Embrace said:


> Hey, anytime your mind is loney and hanging out in the gutter - just look around, I'm sure you'll find me there somewhere!


Seems like we will be spending a lot of time together then. Let Sushi Guy know he has nothing to worry about.



Eternal Embrace said:


> Also, this has been bugging me for a while...
> 
> Did you know that they named an engraving machine after you?
> 
> I do custom engraving for the yachts in my area and have a big C&C engraving machine... it's got a fancy title: New Hermes IS7000 - so now every time I work on my machine I have a little chuckle...


That is awesome. I am glad that I can give you a little chuckle everyday now. 

To return the chuckle, here is my new monitor name:


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Ahhhhh!!!! I love it!!!! So awesome - I had to take my own picture of that in case I'm ever in need of a pick me up!!!:smthumbup: x 8000

And I'll give SG the heads up that there's nothing to worry about! He'll be at a gun show on Saturday thou so I'll be keeping an eye out for you in the gutter!

You and Conrad are spot on with the codependancy thing. It is a really tough thing to break. That's my biggest thing I'm working on right now. For example I'm kinda disappointed about SG going to that gun show and not being able to hang out with him - but at the same time I'm all like "whoa, girlie! Chill out, take a step back - this ain't the end of the world!!! So figure out what you're going to do now for yourself to have a good time and get your buns out there and do it!!!" So, yeah, it's definately a process but as long as we stick to it and continue to work at I know we'll eventually have it beat!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Ahhhhh!!!! I love it!!!! So awesome - I had to take my own picture of that in case I'm ever in need of a pick me up!!!:smthumbup: x 8000
> 
> And I'll give SG the heads up that there's nothing to worry about! He'll be at a gun show on Saturday thou so I'll be keeping an eye out for you in the gutter!
> 
> You and Conrad are spot on with the codependancy thing. It is a really tough thing to break. That's my biggest thing I'm working on right now. For example I'm kinda disappointed about SG going to that gun show and not being able to hang out with him - but at the same time I'm all like "whoa, girlie! Chill out, take a step back - this ain't the end of the world!!! So figure out what you're going to do now for yourself to have a good time and get your buns out there and do it!!!" So, yeah, it's definately a process but as long as we stick to it and continue to work at I know we'll eventually have it beat!


i hear you. It is tough not caring what others think about you or not wanting validation from them. It is going to be a long road, for sure. 

I know I feel rejected right now. I told you about the teacher. She seemed very interested in me, but apparently is not. Usually, I would care. I would think things like, Am i not good enough? What could i have done to make her interested in me? etc. Right now, I do not care. Her loss. I know I am good enough. I know that I am a great person that has a lot to offer someone. If she cant see that, then too bad for her. It stings a little that I put myself out there (especially the first time since this crap with my wife started) to only be rejected, but that is life. I have to learn a lesson from this and move forward.


----------



## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> It is tough not caring what others think about you or not wanting validation from them. It is going to be a long road, for sure.


I know is not easy but in similar situations I say to my self this :

*" Is not my business what others think about me "*

And that help allot


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> i hear you. It is tough not caring what others think about you or not wanting validation from them. It is going to be a long road, for sure.


Yes, a long road it will be but only because it took as a long road to get here what with the damage we have done to ourselves... I like to think that anything worth doing and worth doing right ain't even gonna be easy!



Hermes said:


> I know I feel rejected right now. I told you about the teacher. She seemed very interested in me, but apparently is not. Usually, I would care. I would think things like, Am i not good enough? What could i have done to make her interested in me? etc. Right now, I do not care. Her loss. I know I am good enough. I know that I am a great person that has a lot to offer someone. If she cant see that, then too bad for her. It stings a little that I put myself out there (especially the first time since this crap with my wife started) to only be rejected, but that is life. I have to learn a lesson from this and move forward.


Good for you - on getting up the nerve to ask her out - that takes guts man especially after what you've been thru and you really deserve a pat on the back for that!

And more kudos for you for dealing with rejection so gracefully! I tell myself the same thing when it comes to STBXH and even SG - when/if things don't work out then it's nobody's loss but theirs - if someone fails to recognize me for the totally awesome chick I am (Yes, tootin' my own horn here, forgive me) then that person is the one missing out.

But I don't necessarily think that there's a lesson to be learned from her rejecting you (I mean, unless you showed up all smelly and rude - then yeah, lesson would be to clean up and be nice). Unless the lesson you precieve is that this rejection is not the end, that you are worthy and that you are not gonna let this one rejection hinder you in your healing process!

Keep on keeping on, babe! You're doing a great job!!!


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Do not define yourself by the thoughts of others.

Surround yourself with those who treat you how you want to be treated.

Then, when you feel down you are able to gain strength back from those who tell you how it is.

Not those who enable the continuation of "poor me".

"Today, I feel down. I will allow myself to feel this way for today. I will not let it define me as tomorrow is new day.".

If you feel bad, guilty or "mean" reducing the interactions with people that do nothing but belittle you.

It's a sign that you still do not value yourself enough.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

> Yes, a long road it will be but only because it took as a long road to get here what with the damage we have done to ourselves... I like to think that anything worth doing and worth doing right ain't even gonna be easy!


I hear that. It definitely is not easy. I know that I need a lot of work, though and I am in for the long haul. I NEVER want to feel like this and allow someone else to have this power to make me feel like this EVER again. 




> Good for you - on getting up the nerve to ask her out - that takes guts man especially after what you've been thru and you really deserve a pat on the back for that!


Why thank you. It was tough, but i did it. 



> And more kudos for you for dealing with rejection so gracefully! I tell myself the same thing when it comes to STBXH and even SG - when/if things don't work out then it's nobody's loss but theirs - if someone fails to recognize me for the totally awesome chick I am (Yes, tootin' my own horn here, forgive me) then that person is the one missing out.


Thanks! I am at a point where I do not care what others think about me, so if she does not value me the same as I value myself, her loss. Not going to lose sleep over it. I have enough to lose sleep over, so I am not going worry about something so inconsequential.



> But I don't necessarily think that there's a lesson to be learned from her rejecting you (I mean, unless you showed up all smelly and rude - then yeah, lesson would be to clean up and be nice). Unless the lesson you precieve is that this rejection is not the end, that you are worthy and that you are not gonna let this one rejection hinder you in your healing process!


Firstly, I had to laugh at your smelly and rude comment. Would it be wrong if I approached her like this:










I just kept yelling, "I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!" to her. How is that not appealing? Again, her loss. 

Secondly, the lesson I feel I have to learn is that I can not care about what others think or how they perceive me. If they do not want to be with me, as a friend or intimately, that is there loss. I am an awesome person that will make someone very lucky. If they can not see that, than tough cookies for you. I just need to remember that in the moment of rejection. This would have got me depressed before, but now, I just dont care.




> Keep on keeping on, babe! You're doing a great job!!!


THANK YOU! 



UpnOver said:


> Do not define yourself by the thoughts of others.
> 
> Surround yourself with those who treat you how you want to be treated.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I wont. I am sick of caring about others more than how I feel about myself. I will not allow them to dictate my self worth anymore.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I just realized I got 2 emails from the stbxw yesterday. I set a rule to send her emails automatically to a folder and did not notice they were there. 

So, she asks in the first:

M, 

Was there anything of mine in the dresser you took? 
Also, I am missing documentation for my wedding ring—have you seen it around?

Thank you for your time,
-M

I say:

No and No.

HA! I am not going to be pulled into this BS with her. She is trying to get me to care about the wedding ring. Is she going to sell it? Get it fixed? Who cares. She is trying to get a rise out of me. It aint working.

The other emails were just crap about our daughters insurance. Nothing special. 

HA. Good job. I am not falling for it anymore.


----------



## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

Great job brother! Keep it up!


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I say:
> 
> No and No.


Spoken like a true smartass.

Good job.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Spoken like a true smartass.
> 
> Good job.


Thanks. Old Mike is back. I am done being a doormat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. Old Mike is back. I am done being a doormat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean I'll have to find a new place to wipe my boots?

Dammit.

It's all wet and snowy over here


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I just kept yelling, "I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!" to her. How is that not appealing? Again, her loss.


:rofl:

Please know that for the coming days (maybe weeks) to come that image of Chris Farley yelling at some teacher will pop into my head along with the van down by the river comment - and there will be no way in hell that I will be able to contain my loud obnoxious laughter!!! Seriously - I am choking on my laughter as I type!!!

Thank you!!!!

Oh - and totally freakin' awesome job on the emails - very nice not giving her the reaction she seeks, I'm sure she'll be stewin' over that for a while!


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. Old Mike is back. I am done being a doormat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There ya go, sweetie!

Here's to you!

Alice Cooper - No More Mr Nice Guy - YouTube


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Spoken like a true smartass


My apologies - quicky thread jack - but HK, is that a Steal Magnolias ref?

If so, I love me some Clariee!!!


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> My apologies - quicky thread jack - but HK, is that a Steal Magnolias ref?
> 
> If so, I love me some Clariee!!!


I heart you, even more, now.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You mean I'll have to find a new place to wipe my boots?
> 
> Dammit.
> 
> It's all wet and snowy over here


I will give you my wife's phone number. She can use a size 12 boot across her backside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Please know that for the coming days (maybe weeks) to come that image of Chris Farley yelling at some teacher will pop into my head along with the van down by the river comment - and there will be no way in hell that I will be able to contain my loud obnoxious laughter!!! Seriously - I am choking on my laughter as I type!!!
> 
> ...


I am sure she is stewing about it right now. But, for the first time in 8 years, I DONT CARE. I dont care if she is upset. I am not playing this game and being put down anymore with her. I feel great today. Really, really great. I think i should go visit happyman and we can go dress up like ronald mcdonald together........for the kids only, of course.....



HappyKaty said:


> There ya go, sweetie!
> 
> Here's to you!
> 
> Alice Cooper - No More Mr Nice Guy - YouTube


Dont think for a second that I do not have this entire album on my ipad. I saw this message on my phone and was like "done". Time for some Alice Cooper in the car ride to work from the gym. This was followed up with:

Alice Cooper - Poison - YouTube

You have a damn good choice in music my friend.



Eternal Embrace said:


> My apologies - quicky thread jack - but HK, is that a Steal Magnolias ref?
> 
> If so, I love me some Clariee!!!


No. No. No. I will have to stop you there. Up until this point, you have been wonderful EE. Terrible, terrible movie. Why does it make me cry like a little girl.  I am looking for entertainment, not to feel things..... (sarcasm of course, not sure if it is apparent)



HappyKaty said:


> I heart you, even more, now.


It is pretty easy to heart her, right (except for the steel magnolias reference, which I blame squarely on you HK.)?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Bite your tongue, Hermes!

Steel Magnolias is amazing!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Bite your tongue, Hermes!
> 
> Steel Magnolias is amazing!



Fine. But I am warning you, if anyone mentions "Beaches", all hell will break loose.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Fine. But I am warning you, if anyone mentions "Beaches", all hell will break loose.


THAT movie sucks.

Bad.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> THAT movie sucks.
> 
> Bad.


Good. We are on the same page then.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Beaches!

:rofl:

Ya, whatcha gonna do now???!!!

Seriously thou - I despise that movie!


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Oh, and by the way - I am soooo totally gonna watch Steel Magnolias this weekend and you know what??!!

I'm gonna draw me a picture (or print one out if I'm lazy, which I probably will be) of Ronald McDonald (aka Hermes) sitting in a gutter and post it to my wall so it's within watching distance of my tv screen - and Ronald McDonald is gonna love it!!!

I'll make sure to have a box of tissues handy to wipe both of our tears away!!!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Beaches!
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> ...


I was going to let this one slide until...



Eternal Embrace said:


> Oh, and by the way - I am soooo totally gonna watch Steel Magnolias this weekend and you know what??!!
> 
> I'm gonna draw me a picture (or print one out if I'm lazy, which I probably will be) of Ronald McDonald (aka Hermes) sitting in a gutter and post it to my wall so it's within watching distance of my tv screen - and Ronald McDonald is gonna love it!!!
> 
> I'll make sure to have a box of tissues handy to wipe both of our tears away!!!


i saw this. No. No. No. 

In the words of Conrad "I am not OK with you doing that". 

Well, now that I said what i had to say, we can go back to our regularly scheduled programming....


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

and.....we are back.

So, I went to therapy today. It was great. I really, really, really feel great right now. The best i have felt in a long time. My therapist went over the list that I gave her (second post on this thread) and we discussed what i am doing to fix them. We set an action plan for some of them and others we will tackle next time. 

We talked about the ex and what she is doing right now. She says that this relationship is going to fizzle soon, to which I said, meh. She asked if reconciliation is what i wanted. It took a minute, but I did say yes, it was. I genuinely want to reconcile, but I am not trying to get it now. I will told her I will not settle for less than what I deserve. I will not accept anything less than 100% from her. I dont care. She told me that if I wanted to reconcile at all in the future that I need to stop caring all together about anything and everything that she is doing, saying, thinking, feeling, etc. Easy. I am done caring. She told me I am a codependent, but she does not think I am as bad as I think i am. I do think i am a codependent, but I agree, I am not as bad as some of them that were there last night. However, that does not mean that I am going to stop going or focus on fixing it.

I went to the gym with my brother in law and told him about everything. After i told him i just dont care anymore, he told me about my wife and her thanksgiving plans. She is going to his house and she does not understand why EVERYONE (her family, her co workers, her friends) are all telling her that she is crazy for not going to HER family, but to this guys house that she has been dating for a month IMMEDIATELY after a divorce. 

My response:

Not my problem. Dont care.

It felt right. 

I feel good.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> and.....we are back.
> 
> So, I went to therapy today. It was great. I really, really, really feel great right now. The best i have felt in a long time. My therapist went over the list that I gave her (second post on this thread) and we discussed what i am doing to fix them. We set an action plan for some of them and others we will tackle next time.
> 
> ...


You don't have a care in the world ;-).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

spun said:


> You don't have a care in the world ;-).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And that's a great way to be!:smthumbup:


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> You don't have a care in the world ;-).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ain't that the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> And that's a great way to be!:smthumbup:


I am enjoying it so far. I am realistic. I expect to not feel this good everyday, but I feel like I had a breakthrough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Oh, and by the way - I am soooo totally gonna watch Steel Magnolias this weekend and you know what??!!
> 
> I'm gonna draw me a picture (or print one out if I'm lazy, which I probably will be) of Ronald McDonald (aka Hermes) sitting in a gutter and post it to my wall so it's within watching distance of my tv screen - and Ronald McDonald is gonna love it!!!


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Conrad said:


>


EE,

If you hang this on your wall, I expect a picture.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Damn it Conrad. Why did you help her? 


To be fair that picture is awesome.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, my ex wife is allergic to gluten. For the last 4 years, I have had to cook gluten free for her and my daughter. My daughter was diagnosed with a LOT of allergies by her doctor ( soy, dairy, wheat, nut, egg, etc). It was VERY hard for her and us. So, I have been cooking gluten free for so long. Every year, I cooked thanksgiving for her family. This year, obviously, I am not. Her family is doing nothing for thanksgiving. Their daughter is going out with her new man to his family house. 

Is it odd, that I am relieved that I am not going to have to cater to that anymore? Really, I want to cook tomorrow and just throw powdered gluten all over my food. 

Weird thought that I just had. I sacrificed to cook for her so she would not get sick. Screw that noise. Now it is my time. 

Also, is it wrong for me to laugh thinking about her going to his house tomorrow and his family, most likely, not catering to her diet?

Just some random thoughts that I had just now.

bTW. The doctor (for my daughter) was wrong, we ran another test 3 months later and found out she was not allergic to anything.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, my ex wife is allergic to gluten. For the last 4 years, I have had to cook gluten free for her and my daughter. My daughter was diagnosed with a LOT of allergies by her doctor ( soy, dairy, wheat, nut, egg, etc). It was VERY hard for her and us. So, I have been cooking gluten free for so long. Every year, I cooked thanksgiving for her family. This year, obviously, I am not. Her family is doing nothing for thanksgiving. Their daughter is going out with her new man to his family house.
> 
> Is it odd, that I am relieved that I am not going to have to cater to that anymore? Really, I want to cook tomorrow and just throw powdered gluten all over my food.
> 
> ...


This sounds enormously healthy Hermes.

Happy Thanksgiving - have a superb one.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> This sounds enormously healthy Hermes.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving - have a superb one.


Thanks Conrad! Have a great thanksgiving too!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes
If you want a laugh here you go.

Your wife, who is married to you, is going to Thanksgiving dinner, with her new BF at his parents house with his family.

If I had someone else's wife that I was sleeping with at my families thanksgiving dinner my parents would have had me on the table, cooked, stuffed with an apple in my mouth.

What trailer park does his family live in?

Tht whole scenario should make you laugh and then run as fast as you can so you never have to deal with her ever again.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> If you want a laugh here you go.
> 
> Your wife, who is married to you, is going to Thanksgiving dinner, with her new BF at his parents house with his family.
> ...


Thanks HM64. 

It does.i don't know if she is going to his parents or to friends or whatever. Either way it makes no difference. Besides, who knows what this lying cheat has told this man. And who cares? He is divorced as well, so they probably think it is normal. Really, from what I have heard, he is a douche of unmatched proportions. I may post a pic of him in private so you can see whati mean. Every picture of him on Facebook is of him with his shirt raised, taking a picture of his abs, from a camera phone while staring in the mirror. Just douche.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Good day so far. I picked up my daughter this morning. I tried to be very calm and dispassionate with my wife. She yelled. She made a comment no I told her I would take her suggestion into consideration. She got very upset with that comment. 

We ended up talking for 2 hours about everything. The om, feelings for each other, the way we are both acting, our gripes with each other, reconciliation, etc. it was productive. We did not say anything about actually reconciliation, but the general feel of the conversation had a feeling that she would want to reconcile after time. I told her I do not want to reconcile now. I have no interest in reconciling with her as is. 

We decided that we will take baby steps to get on good terms to discuss our daughter only. After that, we will see about getting on terms to fix our relationship. 

She mentioned that she feels it would be easier to reconcile. She hs dys that she wants to reconcile, but days she does not. 

She claims she did not plan to leave for this guy. She met him for the first time the day she asked for a divorce and that she planned on saying something for weeks before. 

She cried a lot during the conversation. 

She was upset with me because she felt that I did not think that I did anything wrong in the relationship. I did not go into detail, but told her I know wht I did and I own it. I told her that she did just as much, but has yet to own anything that she did. 

So, it was overall productive. Obviously it does not change anything. She is still with the *******. She is not ready to reconcile and I do not want to reconcile with her until I am better with myself. 

I was brutally honest with her (since that was an issue I had in the marriage). I told her exactly what I thought of her. Cheat, liar, terrible decisions, etc. she does not agree she is a cheat and I told her it does not matter. 

She did mention that she has not missed me because I have been so mean to her. 

I told her that I am extremely upset with her because of how she ended things. I know why she did and I own my share, but cheating has no excuse. She understood. 

So, all in all, it was good. I will be nice when it comes to our daughter. I know I am not going to nice her out of this. I am going to continue wht I am doing. Go to my meetings and get better. When we talk, I will try to be calm, cool, dispassionate, but not cold or abrasive with her. She said she will be patient with me if I am upset with her, since she understands why I am upset. 

I will post a little more later. 

Have a great thanksgiving.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Good day so far. I picked up my daughter this morning. I tried to be very calm and dispassionate with my wife. She yelled. She made a comment no I told her I would take her suggestion into consideration. She got very upset with that comment.
> 
> We ended up talking for 2 hours about everything. The om, feelings for each other, the way we are both acting, our gripes with each other, reconciliation, etc. it was productive. We did not say anything about actually reconciliation, but the general feel of the conversation had a feeling that she would want to reconcile after time. I told her I do not want to reconcile now. I have no interest in reconciling with her as is.
> 
> ...


There will be no forward movement as long as posOM is in the picture.

Time to stop "explaining" things to her.

Let her own her chaos.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> There will be no forward movement as long as posOM is in the picture.
> 
> Time to stop "explaining" things to her.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. I feel good I got it off my chest with her. Now, I feel I can move forward. I am NOT moving forward with her until the posom is gone AND I feel better about myself. 

I would have been hung up on what she said today, but I am not. I don't care. I know that it was meaningless, so whatever. It was more for me than for her. Now, we are on the same page. I will act as I need to for our daughter, but will not discuss anything about us while that ass in the picture. Trust that. I am not stupid. I will not allow a repeat performance of this crap with her.

Right now, it is about co-parenting, not reconciling. I am NOT ok reconciling right now.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Hold your ground. And never settle until she owns her own sh!t.

And instead of posting a pic of the d-bag, post a Pic
of what really matters in your life.

Your kid.

Never waste your time on anything else but you, your kid and your marriage.

That is all that matters at this time.

And you are right.

There is no excuse to cheat. She needs to own it.

Does she not realize you coud go get an easy piece of tail. Then you would be no better than the POSOM.

Explain that to her when she calms down.

Enjoy the rest of the day.

HM64


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> Hold your ground. And never settle until she owns her own sh!t.
> 
> ...


Trust me. I will stand my ground with her. I am sick of giving her the power she has over me. Until she owns what she has done an what she did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage, I am not interested in getting together. I will post a pic of her later today. She is such a great little girl. 

Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Good day so far. I picked up my daughter this morning. I tried to be very calm and dispassionate with my wife. She yelled. She made a comment no I told her I would take her suggestion into consideration. She got very upset with that comment.
> 
> We ended up talking for 2 hours about everything. The om, feelings for each other, the way we are both acting, our gripes with each other, reconciliation, etc. it was productive. We did not say anything about actually reconciliation, but the general feel of the conversation had a feeling that she would want to reconcile after time. I told her I do not want to reconcile now. I have no interest in reconciling with her as is.
> 
> ...


posOM has to go.

Nothing happens until that's accomplished.

And, no.. it's not ok to get in a last little bit of nookie with him.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> posOM has to go.
> 
> Nothing happens until that's accomplished.
> 
> And, no.. it's not ok to get in a last little bit of nookie with him.


Don't care. I don't have a care in the world with her.

She has no intention of getting rid of him right now. Again, don't care. I am moving forward with the divorce. If she wants to join me and is genuinely remorseful, then we can talk, until then, no dice.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Don't care. I don't have a care in the world with her.
> 
> She has no intention of getting rid of him right now. Again, don't care. I am moving forward with the divorce. If she wants to join me and is genuinely remorseful, then we can talk, until then, no dice.


Proud of you, hon.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, as promised. me and my little one at the zoo the other day. 









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Proud of you, hon.


Thanks. I am dead set on staying on course here.


----------



## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Don't care. I don't have a care in the world with her.
> 
> She has no intention of getting rid of him right now. Again, don't care. I am moving forward with the divorce. If she wants to join me and is genuinely remorseful, then we can talk, until then, no dice.


There you go that's the attitude!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, as promised. me and my little one at the zoo the other day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our little sweethearts are given to us by God Himself.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

She is my little sweetheart. I felt so bad for her today. After me and the wife talked, we went into the house and told our daughter that mommy and daddy were sorry we fought. Our daughter than grabbed both of us and pulled us both to her to hug. She really misses her family. Poor little one. 

She is a great little girl. I love her so much.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Don't care. I don't have a care in the world with her.
> 
> She has no intention of getting rid of him right now. Again, don't care. I am moving forward with the divorce. If she wants to join me and is genuinely remorseful, then we can talk, until then, no dice.


I hope I'll be able to say this 2 months from now .

Good job !


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

BigMac said:


> I hope I'll be able to say this 2 months from now .
> 
> Good job !


You will. You just need to hit a breaking point. I hit one about a week ago and then the CODA meeting just solidified it for me.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Hermes said:


> You will. You just need to hit a breaking point. I hit one about a week ago and then the CODA meeting just solidified it for me.


Yes, I need at first to move out .

What is CODA meeting ?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Co-dependence anonymous. Yes it is really hard living in the same house.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> She is my little sweetheart. I felt so bad for her today. After me and the wife talked, we went into the house and told our daughter that mommy and daddy were sorry we fought. Our daughter than grabbed both of us and pulled us both to her to hug. She really misses her family. Poor little one.
> 
> She is a great little girl. I love her so much.


I have a Little Sweetheart that is now 23.

She loves her old man.

She also thinks he's crazy.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So another interesting morning. 

The wife came to my new house this morning to get out daughter. Our daughter has been asking for her to come over to show her the new place, especially her "princess cave" (a large carpeted storage space under our stairs). I agreed and said it was fine that she could come over. 

She showed up around 8:30. She stayed for about 30 minutes. 

It was fine, we did not argue at all. In fact, we joked a little and had a decent time. We talked about her coming over Sunday to get half of our daughters things. 

A few things that I think and feel right now:

1. I feel like I am rewarding her for her actions by being nice to her

2. I feel like she is trying to keep me as plan b, even though she has made no mention or attempt to keep me interested in her, that I can tell.

3. I feel like i backtracked a little, but not much with this

Overall, it was fine. I am a little confused today, since we were friendly, but not enough to have second thought s about what I need to do. I am still moving forward the same as I was before. I am glad that we are being friendly, but now I need to enforce the 180 more. 

She (I think) is jealous of my new place. It is SO much nicer than where she is. She mentioned how nice it was a few times. Our daughter told her that she loves our new place. 

My ground rules still stand:

1. Scott (the other man ) needs to be out of the picture. 
2. She needs to admit and be remorseful for what she has done
3. I need to fix my issues 

Until all three are met, I am not entertaining anything from her. 

Do you think I am going about this the right way?

Should I be friendly for our daughters sake, and to try to keep reconciliation as an option, but move on at the same time?

Any other thoughts?


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## Bottle (Sep 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So another interesting morning.
> 
> The wife came to my new house this morning to get out daughter. Our daughter has been asking for her to come over to show her the new place, especially her "princess cave" (a large carpeted storage space under our stairs). I agreed and said it was fine that she could come over.
> 
> ...


Why not keep contact to a minimum and be friendly but only about stuff concerning your daughter.

I'd keep on track with your plan. Sounds like its working and she knows where you are if she wants to R.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Bottle said:


> Why not keep contact to a minimum and be friendly but only about stuff concerning your daughter.
> 
> I'd keep on track with your plan. Sounds like its working and she knows where you are if she wants to R.


Hermes have your communicated the 3 rules for R? If so what was her reaction?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

In your case I wouldn't let her come in , just to keep mysterious as per 180 rules .


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Bottle said:


> Why not keep contact to a minimum and be friendly but only about stuff concerning your daughter.
> 
> I'd keep on track with your plan. Sounds like its working and she knows where you are if she wants to R.


Thanks. That is idea. Friendly only about our daughter. Nothing more. 



Too Little Too Late? said:


> Hermes have your communicated the 3 rules for R? If so what was her reaction?


No, because R is not an actual option right now. She is still with Scott. I am not interested in anything with her while he is still in the picture. She has made no mention of wanting to R, either. My ground rules are IF she tries to R. 



BigMac said:


> In your case I wouldn't let her come in , just to keep mysterious as per 180 rules .


I agree. I did it for my daughter, since she asked. After Sunday, I will not allow it.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So another interesting morning.
> 
> The wife came to my new house this morning to get out daughter. Our daughter has been asking for her to come over to show her the new place, especially her "princess cave" (a large carpeted storage space under our stairs). I agreed and said it was fine that she could come over.
> 
> ...


I hear you about feeling that your are justifying their actions by being nice. How do you deal with it in front of your daughter? Are you going to set a boundary that she doesn't come in when you trade off? I have a storage feeling that posUm is going to be there when I pick up my kids on Sunday. She asked if i wanted to meet him..I said..not a chance.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. That is idea. Friendly only about our daughter. Nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also wondering if posUM has met and is spending time with your daughter? How have you handled that?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I hear you about feeling that your are justifying their actions by being nice. How do you deal with it in front of your daughter? Are you going to set a boundary that she doesn't come in when you trade off? I have a storage feeling that posUm is going to be there when I pick up my kids on Sunday. She asked if i wanted to meet him..I said..not a chance.


I am being nice in front of the daughter. That is it. Yes, I will get my daughter at the car. I won't have her come in. 




Too Little Too Late? said:


> Also wondering if posUM has met and is spending time with your daughter? How have you handled that?


HELL NO! He has not met her and he will not meet her. The agreement right now, which will be in writing, is that unless they are engadged, living together, etc, he is NOT coming around my daughter. I don't think it will last long enough for that to happen.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am being nice in front of the daughter. That is it. Yes, I will get my daughter at the car. I won't have her come in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least your stbxw has brains enough not to involve your daughter. mine said "how will I know if he is the one if the kids don't know him or like him" only seeing him 4 months. Last week he spent the night then took my oldest to the arcade. How do I control this? My MC says I can't. That she will have to deal with the repercussions. Its driving me mad...not fair to my kids. Would love your insight on my thread. Good luck.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

BTW glad you are going to CODA. Pretty enlightening.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Job.

And act happy even if you are not.

"Fake it till you make it"

Your kid is cute.

My girls are 18, 12 & 11.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> At least your stbxw has brains enough not to involve your daughter. mine said "how will I know if he is the one if the kids don't know him or like him" only seeing him 4 months. Last week he spent the night then took my oldest to the arcade. How do I control this? My MC says I can't. That she will have to deal with the repercussions. Its driving me mad...not fair to my kids. Would love your insight on my thread. Good luck.


That is screwed up. Honestly,I don't know if she has the brains to not include her. I can't believe anything she says right now. 

I agree, I don't think there is anything you can do to stop it. It would drive me crazy too. I will take a look at your thread and give some insight. 

Thanks!



Too Little Too Late? said:


> BTW glad you are going to CODA. Pretty enlightening.


It was very enlightening. 



happyman64 said:


> Good Job.
> 
> And act happy even if you are not.
> 
> ...


Thanks HP64. That is the plan. I will be happy around her solely for my daughter.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, yesterday I found out the ex did not go to thanksgiving with the om. She went to her family. The om did come over later in the day to her houe though. Her brother did tell me, she was very upbeat after our conversation. He said she seems like she ws in much better spirits. 

I told him I don't care, she may feel better since we talked, but she still is making her terrible decisions. Doesn't change a thing.

She is being overly friendly with me too. I called this morning to say good morning to my daughter. She answered the phone with a very enthusiastic "Good Morning". I just said hi. She told me what they were doing today and how they want to go to a park near my new house, etc. staying on course.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Last thing. I know it makes no difference, but I like being completely transparent on here, since that is one of my issues with codependency. 

I was told yesterday that the om is upset and sad that her brother hates him. 

Made me feel good. I really do love my brother in law.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Last thing. I know it makes no difference, but I like being completely transparent on here, since that is one of my issues with codependency.
> 
> I was told yesterday that the om is upset and sad that her brother hates him.
> 
> Made me feel good. I really do love my brother in law.


The view from 50,000 feet says that posOM is codependent.

Why should he care what her brother thinks?

So, they're likely doomed.

But, that's not a surprise.

She attracts codependent men, doesn't she Hermes?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The view from 50,000 feet says that posOM is codependent.
> 
> Why should he care what her brother thinks?
> 
> ...


Trust me, I know all too well that she does.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Trust me, I know all too well that she does.


Serious question.

Are you able to laugh now?

From 50,000 feet, this kind of stuff is funny.

How are you doing?

(You've just gotten absolute confirmation that she's now involved with a needy whiny posOM. That spells doom. How do you feel about it? I mean, she's going to circle the drain with this one)


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Serious question.
> 
> Are you able to laugh now?
> 
> ...


Yes and no. 

I have always known it won't work out. In therapy, she told our therapist that she liked him because of 2 reasons:

He listened to her and he was a runner. 

I know you can't build a real relationship on those two things. I know that it was doomed to fail. The fact that he is a codependant too, just seals the deal. 

I can laugh because she left me for essentially the same crap, but with a different person. 

I can't laugh because the chances this will end soon are less, because if he is codependent, he will try to stay with her no matter what. 

Mostly, yes I can laugh at the situation. It is a little disheartening, though. 

But, right now, I still not care. I can't do anything about it, so what's the point trying. I will just keep up being positive around h for our daughter and go from there.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I can laugh because she left me for essentially the same crap, but with a different person.


And Hermes....

Here's the key question.

Why do we work on ourselves here?

(Not a trick question. Ponder your sentence above)


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And Hermes....
> 
> Here's the key question.
> 
> ...


I am working on myself so I am better for the people that matter in my life (me, daughter and future relationships). 

I am working on myself, so I do not settle for the same crap that I have been getting.

Sbagliando s'impara.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I am working on myself so I am better for the people that matter in my life (me, daughter and future relationships).
> 
> I am working on myself, so I do not settle for the same crap that I have been getting.
> 
> Sbagliando s'impara.


And.... perhaps most importantly... so you are no longer attracted to - and no longer attract - toxic partners.

You'll be able to spot them a mile away.

This is real life empowerment.

Attraction is largely subconscious. Rewiring your circuits is not easy and not for the faint of heart.

But, the rewards are timeless.

We're actually the lucky ones.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And Hermes....
> 
> Here's the key question.
> 
> ...


Here is another question.

Why the hell would you want her back?

You have seen what she is truly like. 

Just remember she is no good to you, your kid or herself until she identifies her issues and fixes them.

I think you will come out a much better person than her after all this crap.

My money is on you Hermes.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And.... perhaps most importantly... so you are no longer attracted to - and no longer attract - toxic partners.
> 
> You'll be able to spot them a mile away.
> 
> ...


I agree. I know it is not an easy road. Baby steps for now. 



happyman64 said:


> Here is another question.
> 
> Why the hell would you want her back?
> 
> ...


I know. I want her back because I love her. Thankfully, I realize it is the codependency speaking. I know that she is being a truly terrible wife, friend and person right now. I have not detached enough yet. I know I need t work on the still. I am not interested in taking her back until she works out her issues. 

I think I will come out much better, while she will be exactly where she left off. 

Deep down, I feel like we can work on our issues, as long as we are willing to work on our individual issues too. 

I am still moving forward with the divorce. I am not going to stop it. If she wants to join the team and get fixed, she is welcome. If not, that is her choice. I know I have my faults, but I am man enough to admit them, face them and conquer them. 

As they say, it's time to nut up or shut up and I am not going to be a silent person any more.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I agree. I know it is not an easy road. Baby steps for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that really is the key isn't it? being man or woman enough to admit your faults and face them? what i see on here is stbx's that can't do it. to admit fault is akin to death. no matter how many lies are told..no matter how much manipulation..they just can't admit to it. seems the more there is the less the chances of admission. some don't see it as wrong at all..somehow we..they deserve all this. crazy at best. psychotic at worst.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> that really is the key isn't it? being man or woman enough to admit your faults and face them? what i see on here is stbx's that can't do it. to admit fault is akin to death. no matter how many lies are told..no matter how much manipulation..they just can't admit to it. seems the more there is the less the chances of admission. some don't see it as wrong at all..somehow we..they deserve all this. crazy at best. psychotic at worst.


I agree completely. My ex does not think she has done anything wrong. Nothing wrong in the marriage and nothing wrong with her dating someone else the day after we separated. How can they be this delusional?

At the end of the day, we will fix ourselves and they will only be either right we they left us OR they will only get worse. Either way, for the time being, they are not our problem. Let the POSOM deal with their craziness.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes,

You're so close.

But, remember this well.

It's posOM in this forum.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> You're so close.
> 
> ...


Gotcha. I put his name earlier, which humanized him a little too much. Will edit. 

On a related note, is it wrong that I am not really upset with him anymore? I know he is a pos. I know he is a complete douche, but angry with him, I have none really. He did nothing that my posstbxw did not allow him to do. You know? Is that normal? 

The way I see it now, is that I have NO idea what she told him. She could have said we were separated already and that I knew about it, for all I know. She could have been honest to him, too. I don't know. So, do I blame him, no. Do I blame her, absolutely. 

Is that a normal feeling?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Now work on not being upset with her anymore.

Don't allow her to rent space in your head.

Indifference is the ultimate insult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> Now work on not being upset with her anymore.
> 
> Don't allow her to rent space in your head.
> 
> ...


I am getting there.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

And another thing from the marriage gone. I just sold the car we bought for her (that I kept). So, new house, new car, new clothes. Now, just a new woman and I will be set. Not now of course, but once I make some more improvements. Progress feels good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> And another thing from the marriage gone. I just sold the car we bought for her (that I kept). So, new house, new car, new clothes. Now, just a new woman and I will be set. Not now of course, but once I make some more improvements. Progress feels good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A whole new world awaits you.

Stay on course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> And another thing from the marriage gone. I just sold the car we bought for her (that I kept). So, new house, new car, new clothes. Now, just a new woman and I will be set. Not now of course, but once I make some more improvements. Progress feels good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a new Hermes too  
Glad to hear your progressing. Sounds like you are doing rather well. Keep it up !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Sounds like a new Hermes too
> Glad to hear your progressing. Sounds like you are doing rather well. Keep it up !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks nw. I am trying my hardest. I am out tonight at a local brewery for a comedy show. Having a great time. Enjoy the rest of your night!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, my daughter came home tonight for the week. I asked her if mommy introduced her to posom. She says no. She says mommy talks to a boy named s, and says I love you to him. 

So, here is my wife, telling her boyfriend "I love you" in front of our daughter. Classy. 

I will check with my therapist if they think this is bad for my daughter. I don't have a care in the world that she is telling this guy that she loves him. 

It actually makes me laugh.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So, my daughter came home tonight for the week. I asked her if mommy introduced her to posom. She says no. She says mommy talks to a boy named s, and says I love you to him.
> 
> So, here is my wife, telling her boyfriend "I love you" in front of our daughter. Classy.
> 
> ...


You or your therapist can't control what she says or does.

But, that is besides the point.

You know what the answer to that question is already.

Do what YOU can...be your daughters rock.

The first step to doing that is to stop "asking" her what mom is up to.

She doesn't to deserve to be in the middle anymore than she already is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

spun said:


> You or your therapist can't control what she says or does.
> 
> But, that is besides the point.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more. My intention was not to see what she is up to. My intention was to just ensure that the wife did not break the agreement by introducing the posom to my daughter. I will not ask again, since I do not want her to be stuck in the middle. 

As for the therapist, I know I can not control who she says anything to , what I can request is that she not say it around our daughter. Of,course, she can ignore that request. I was mainly curious if it is healthy for our daughter. I don't think it makes a difference, but I would like a professionals opinion. 

I completely agree with you though.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> As for the therapist, I know I can not control who she says anything to , what I can request is that she not say it around our daughter. *Of,course, she can ignore that request.*


She's proven to you, with her actions, that she likely will ignore the request.

Merely making the request will come off as pushy and pathetic, to her, because she is a defiant little soul.

Just let it be.

Be the one good parent for your little sweetheart.

That's all she really needs, anyway.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> She's proven to you, with her actions, that she likely will ignore the request.
> 
> Merely making the request will come off as pushy and pathetic, to her, because she is a defiant little soul.
> 
> ...


Those were my thoughts too. I assumed she would take it as a form of me exerting control over her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Those were my thoughts too. I assumed she would take it as a form of me exerting control over her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You got this, MAN!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> You got this, MAN!


baby steps. 

This whole situation just makes me laugh. I dont know why. To me it is funny. 

My wife says she is miserable in our marriage. Leaves me. Claims that she did not plan to leave for this guy. Is dating him the next day. Lies at every turn about him. Moves out. Constantly complains to me about not having money (no ****, Sherlock). Come to find out, the guy is also codependent. So, she left me for the same **** she was going through, but it just feels new. HA. Is so obsessed with this guy that she literally runs from dropping off her daughter to go call him. 

Best of luck to you both. 

I just have the sit back and chuckle.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> baby steps.
> 
> This whole situation just makes me laugh. I dont know why. To me it is funny.
> 
> My wife says she is miserable in our marriage. Leaves me. Claims that she did not plan to leave for this guy. Is dating him the next day. Lies at every turn about him. Moves out. Constantly complains to me about not having money (no ****, Sherlock).


She only claims those things so she doesn't feel guilty about what she did. It's kinds like that saying "tell yourself something enough and you'll start to believe it." That's what she's done/is doing.

It would make me laugh, too. Actually I find myself laughing at the pickle my posSTBXH has gotten himself into. It felt soooo awesome the other night when I realized "Hey, posSTBXH was the one who wanted the separation, and now look what his life has become! Hey buddy, how's that working out for ya cause I'm the one who got the better end of the stick!!!"


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> She only claims those things so she doesn't feel guilty about what she did. It's kinds like that saying "tell yourself something enough and you'll start to believe it." That's what she's done/is doing.
> 
> It would make me laugh, too. Actually I find myself laughing at the pickle my posSTBXH has gotten himself into. It felt soooo awesome the other night when I realized "Hey, posSTBXH was the one who wanted the separation, and now look what his life has become! Hey buddy, how's that working out for ya cause I'm the one who got the better end of the stick!!!"


HA! I agree completely. Let them sleep in the crappy bed they made for themselves. I know I am sleeping well at night.


----------



## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> My wife says she is miserable in our marriage. Leaves me. Claims that she did not plan to leave for this guy. Is dating him the next day. Lies at every turn about him. Moves out. Constantly complains to me about not having money (no ****, Sherlock). Come to find out, the guy is also codependent. So, she left me for the same **** she was going through, but it just feels new. HA. Is so obsessed with this guy that she literally runs from dropping off her daughter to go call him.



Don't bother with that . I don't bother about my STBMXW recovering drug-attic . We all know what will happen with such a relationship even they look obsessed .

I read somewhere here about the " selfish move " - when they feel not happy , the easiest way is to seek "happiness " outside the relationship .
So what I think happens is - they start looking for a guy and since isn't that easy , they get " attached " to the first loser that say " YES " ( I say lusa because the cool guys doesn't bother with married woman ) !

And now they're excited - no bills talk, no kids school problems ... everything is roses and love, sex , dinner outs ... exciting to think about it .

BUT

The reality will soon show them what they did , my case as yours too I think the same scenarios - they'll discover the truth soon !


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Don't bother with that . I don't bother about my STBMXW recovering drug-attic . We all know what will happen with such a relationship even they look obsessed .
> 
> I read somewhere here about the " selfish move " - when they feel not happy , the easiest way is to seek "happiness " outside the relationship .
> So what I think happens is - they start looking for a guy and since isn't that easy , they get " attached " to the first loser that say " YES " ( I say lusa because the cool guys doesn't bother with married woman ) !
> ...


I agree completely. This is the BigMac I like to hear.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes, 

Just caught up with your story. Lots of similarities. Crazy in-laws, Nice Guy, etc. It gets better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Hermes,
> 
> Just caught up with your story. Lots of similarities. Crazy in-laws, Nice Guy, etc. It gets better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks Script. I have been following yours for quite some time.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

We are the same age too. My opinion is this is the best thing for you. WW spouses rarely admit their faults or show remorse. And even if you both wanted to work on R, you'd have to go through triggers almost daily. I'm dealing with them constantly. Seems like at the most inadequate moments, even when having a good time with the wife, pictures of her with OM cross my mind and it's hell. Sometimes I think is inevitable that we break up. Her involvement with OM and BPD issues may prove too much to take for me. But I'm trying and standing up for myself which has been effective. 

Keep doing what you doing. You are on your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> We are the same age too. My opinion is this is the best thing for you. WW spouses rarely admit their faults or show remorse. And even if you both wanted to work on R, you'd have to go through triggers almost daily. I'm dealing with them constantly. Seems like at the most inadequate moments, even when having a good time with the wife, pictures of her with OM cross my mind and it's hell. Sometimes I think is inevitable that we break up. Her involvement with OM and BPD issues may prove too much to take for me. But I'm trying and standing up for myself which has been effective.
> 
> Keep doing what you doing. You are on your way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Script. I am trying. I want to work on it, but I want her to work on her issues before that. If she is not willing to admit to me and to her what she has done, then there is nothing to rekindle. 

She will continue to go through life in the exact same situation. I, on the other hand, will only get better.

It is true what they say, WE are the lucky ones. She may be out having the time of her life right now, but reality has a way of kicking the crap out of those that are complacent. 

Never again. 

I wish you both only the best. You are doing a phenomenal job. You are SO patient with her and it absolutely shows with the results you are getting. I know it is no where near over. No matter what happens you can hold your head high and know that YOU made EVERY effort to get this to work. An inspiration, my friend.


----------



## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Hermes,

Been following your thread for some time. Thought I would butt in with a comment - quite a few of your posts in the recent past have been about her. Hope you are spending a majority of your time on YOU and not thinking of her. This is important for you to fully recover.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Cdelta02 said:


> Hermes,
> 
> Been following your thread for some time. Thought I would butt in with a comment - quite a few of your posts in the recent past have been about her. Hope you are spending a majority of your time on YOU and not thinking of her. This is important for you to fully recover.


Thanks Cdelta. I am. I usually post in this thread about stuff going on with her. I post elsewhere about other things. 

Thank you. I am focusing on myself and my daughter more than anything right now.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes. Let her work on her issues first. I got desperate and got back without her going to IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Yes. Let her work on her issues first. I got desperate and got back without her going to IC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. She has made no attempt to even acknowledge she needs work. I won't do nothing until that happens.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Breakthroughs are awesome. Truly, truly awesome. 

Last night, a friend of mine on Facebook messaged me and said she is sorry about my divorce and that she is going through one, as well (or debating it). We started talking about it. During the conversation, I directed her to this site and my journal. He is the same way as I am in many ways. I told her about a lot of great resources to fix things, since they have not gotten to the point of cheating. Things that I would have loved to see if I were in their situation. It was a 3 hour conversation. At some point in the conversation, everything just clicked. 

I realized what Conrad has been saying this whole time. Teaching this to other people makes it stick more in your own life. I found myself telling her all the things I learned and how I would proceed if I were her and it felt great. I felt that I was the one learning a lesson, not teaching it. It felt as if this whole time I KNEW these things, but hearing me tell someone else them, just made them sink in. It felt weird, alien, unnatural, but at the same time felt amazing. 

Disconnecting from her is become easier as the days go by. I feel like last night helped me get to 50,000 ft. 

Now on to regular programming.....


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

tonight on Hermes Separation Journal......

My stbxw calls last night to say good night to our daughter. Asks me if I can talk to her for a minute. I am trying to be civil, so I say ok. 

She tells me our daughter requested that the 3 of us go to Disney together. She then says, if I do not want to do that, we can go to a tree lighting ceremony with her family AND mine, so we don't confuse our daughter. 

I tell her that I will consider it and we will discuss later.

I know my answer, but I was not in the mood to get into it with her last night. 

I do not want to go anywhere with her. I am not OK pretending that we are a happy family still. I am not OK easing her guilt for leaving, by going out like we are a family still. Anything that we do together is only going to confuse our daughter and I am not OK with that. 

Tonight I will say something to her via email about this. Obviously, I will not mention the easing her guilt or explain anything. I am not going to be angling for the victim chair. 

Calm

Cool 

Dispassionate

Words to live by when dealing with her.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Breakthroughs are awesome. Truly, truly awesome.
> 
> Last night, a friend of mine on Facebook messaged me and said she is sorry about my divorce and that she is going through one, as well (or debating it). We started talking about it. During the conversation, I directed her to this site and my journal. He is the same way as I am in many ways. I told her about a lot of great resources to fix things, since they have not gotten to the point of cheating. Things that I would have loved to see if I were in their situation. It was a 3 hour conversation. At some point in the conversation, everything just clicked.
> 
> ...


Proud of you, dear!


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Good for you, darlin'! That is awesome!:smthumbup:

We all knew you had it in you!!!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Proud of you, dear!





Eternal Embrace said:


> Good for you, darlin'! That is awesome!:smthumbup:
> 
> We all knew you had it in you!!!


Thanks. I have some good instructors.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Good stuff Hermes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Good stuff Hermes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Script. I have to check your thread out for some updates.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeah bro..you have come a long way in a short time. I need some of that resolve. Keep up the good work.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Yeah bro..you have come a long way in a short time. I need some of that resolve. Keep up the good work.


It is a work in progress still. I feel good about where i am, at least. Right now, the only thing that really gets me down is my daughter. She is acting up SO much more since this has happened. It upsets me that she is going through this. I am fine with me going through it, but she does not deserve it. Of course, when that happens I get upset with the exwife. I shouldn't, but I do. We have discussed out daughter acting up and the exwife does not see it. She questioned our daughter the other day about "why are you being such a bad girl lately", of course when the answer was mommy and daddy splitting up (not from my daughter, this is from the exwife parents and brother, she (the wife) dismissed it. 

I need to get to the point where ANYTHING she does (provided it does not put my daughter in harm) bother me. I need time for that, I guess.

Other than that, I feel good. 

You will get there. I will say, the biggest thing that helped me was honestly listing my faults ion writing. I look at that list everyday and set a goal for myself on how I will improve that list. Seeing myself in such harsh terms really got my eye on the ball. 

You got this. Keep it up.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Good to focus on your issues and keeping an eye on your daughter.

You and SkaterDad are going through the same thing.

All you can do is keep an eye on your kid, give her lots of hugs to reassure her and let her know you love 
Her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> Good to focus on your issues and keeping an eye on your daughter.
> 
> ...


thanks HM. I do that every day. I have to go look at SkaterDad's thread.

Cheers!


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> thanks HM. I do that every day. I have to go look at SkaterDad's thread.
> 
> Cheers!


How you doin Herm?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Things are going well. Thanks! Work has been busy the last few days, so I have had no time to be on TAM. Plus I had my little one this week, so time has been precious. 

All in all, I am doing well. Detaching is getting easier every day. Once I realized I dont love who she is, it made it so much easier to not look back. 

Seeing her how she really is and not the delusion I had of her, has been immensely helpful. 

I hope you are doing well too.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Things are going well. Thanks! Work has been busy the last few days, so I have had no time to be on TAM. Plus I had my little one this week, so time has been precious.
> 
> All in all, I am doing well. Detaching is getting easier every day. Once I realized I dont love who she is, it made it so much easier to not look
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_

That is good. I too am seeing more clearly and a detaching. Now just dealing with feeling isolated and alone. Trying to figure out where to go from here. keep up the good work.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

We were all in love with an glorified version of them. Rising to 50,000 ft helps us see what they really all about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> We were all in love with an glorified version of them. Rising to 50,000 ft helps us see what they really all about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. I notice the games she is still trying to play with me. She did it today. She called to say good morning to our daughter. She is on speakerphone. For no reason other than to get a response from me, tells pur daughter she is going to a parade and she can meet her new running friends. 

She wanted me to respond with something along the lines of "posom wont be there, right?" 

Meh. Not getting it from me. Dont care if he is there. Did not think anything about it. 

Stupid things like that.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> We were all in love with an glorified version of them. Rising to 50,000 ft helps us see what they really all about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Rising to 50,000 feet is not only about them.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Agreed up. I see who I am as well. I see what I want in life and what I think is acceptable behavior from anyone, including myself.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So I just dropped off my little one. Poor little one bawled her eyes out. Wife did not care. She then asked me if she can introduce daughter to posom in a group setting. 

I told her that if she felt it was necessary to introduce our daughter to him and her new friends, that is her choice.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So I just dropped off my little one. Poor little one bawled her eyes out. *Wife did not care.* She then asked me if she can introduce daughter to posom in a group setting.*
> 
> I told her that if she felt it was necessary to introduce our daughter to him and her new friends, that is her choice.


EX-wife did not care.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Voice typing in the car. Yes. Ex wife.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Voice typing in the car. Yes. Ex wife.


After 2 months? That is bat crap. no reason for this kind of stuff to be happening. wtf is the rush? I just don't get it. Its confusing enough for the kids much less to intro the 1st touch they hook up with to the kids. elfin selfish. sorry bro. just shows you who she really is.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> After 2 months? That is bat crap. no reason for this kind of stuff to be happening. wtf is the rush? I just don't get it. Its confusing enough for the kids much less to intro the 1st touch they hook up with to the kids. elfin selfish. sorry bro. just shows you who she really is.


No need to be sorry. Her choice. I cant do anything about it, so why get worked up about it?


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> No need to be sorry. Her choice. I cant do anything about it, so why get worked up about it?


:iagree:

She's gonna do it sooner or later, even if you give your blessing or not.

I think it's good thou that your not letting her asshat behavior get to you - well done!!!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> :iagree:
> 
> She's gonna do it sooner or later, even if you give your blessing or not.
> 
> I think it's good thou that your not letting her asshat behavior get to you - well done!!!


Thanks. How you doing ee? I have not been on tam the last few days. 

She has already showed me that even if I request her not do something, she does not listen. So, why waste my breath. That energy can be used for someting more constructive. 

Nothing she does or says is getting to me lately. Rolls off my back.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. How you doing ee? I have not been on tam the last few days.


SSDD, baby! Doing just fine - just wish the weekends were longer... but don't we all!



Hermes said:


> She has already showed me that even if I request her not do something, she does not listen. So, why waste my breath. That energy can be used for someting more constructive.


Yeah, it got the same way with my STBXH - thou I imagine it's somewhat different when you have a child involved.



Hermes said:


> Nothing she does or says is getting to me lately. Rolls off my back.


And how awesome is that? Truely a great feeling!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> SSDD, baby! Doing just fine - just wish the weekends were longer... but don't we all!
> 
> Yeah, it got the same way with my STBXH - thou I imagine it's somewhat different when you have a child involved.
> 
> And how awesome is that? Truely a great feeling!!!:smthumbup:


Glad to hear that! 

She has lied so many times it is just not worth it for me to try with her. She will make her decisions regardless of my input. If those decisions affect my daughter, then I will jump in. But, right now, meh. Let her make her own decisions and I will just observe.

It is a nice feeling. It is also nice to see her and not feel the need to grab her, kiss her or hug her. When I saw her yesterday, I had no desire for her. It was a nice feeling, indeed.


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Same with mine on the lies - it just got to where every word he spoke to me was all BS and I was all "This is soooo not worth my time! Hope you're more honest with your posOG!!!"


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> No need to be sorry. Her choice. I cant do anything about it, so why get worked up about it?


You are getting very wise Hermes.

And tell the ex when your kid needs therapy because she is so confused about Mommy's behavior your wife can foot the bill.....


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Same with mine on the lies - it just got to where every word he spoke to me was all BS and I was all "This is soooo not worth my time! Hope you're more honest with your posOG!!!"


Exactly. However, seeing as the OM is a codependent guy, as well, I am sure he is not being honest with her. Not my problem, I have far better things to spend my energy on.



happyman64 said:


> You are getting very wise Hermes.
> 
> And tell the ex when your kid needs therapy because she is so confused about Mommy's behavior your wife can foot the bill.....


Thanks HM64. I have had some good instructors. 

I just got to a point where I don't want to play these games with anyone. 

Every day it is some new game with her. Last night, I dropped off my little on at her house. She had a fever (102). I dropped her off and went home. I felt terrible (and still do) that she is sick, but I cant do anything about it. This morning I call the exwife to see how she is doing and she tells me that it is steady, but she cant go to school. I ask, what are you going to do? She complains how she cant take off work because is in a new position (I am sure she said this, to get me to ask about it), and that she does not know what she will do. Usually, I would leave work, since my job is flexible and take care of her. I think she expected me to offer. I did not. She then said, I will have my mom take off work to watch her. OK. Not my problem.

And yes, she will be footing the bill for therapy because of her choices.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Exactly. However, seeing as the OM is a codependent guy, as well, I am sure he is not being honest with her. Not my problem, I have far better things to spend my energy on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like I said you are getting very wise,,, wise to her ways.

Good for you.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Like I said you are getting very wise,,, wise to her ways.
> 
> Good for you.


Thanks hm64.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Well, no news is good news I guess. 

Not much has happened on the crazy stbxw front. 

She has our daughter this week. Her fever has left, so that is a plus. 

I called the exwife on Tuesday (to say goodnight to my daughter) and she (the ex) asked me to bring a hat for our daughter to her school, because she is taking her out to a run/parade on Wednesday. Sure, no problem. I get the hat in the car, just so I dont forget in the morning. 

I call the next morning (again, to talk to the little one) and told the exwife that I will drop the hat off at her school today. She begins to tell me they are not going anymore. To me, it seems like she wants me to ask why.....of course, i dont. I say, ok, well I will give your brother the hat at the gym, then.

On my way to work that morning, my sister calls me. She is still facebook friends with the exwife. She says that the exwife posted something the night before about how she was upset and that when she gets this upset she eats a lot of brownies, or something to that effect. 

Of course, I chuckle. One day she is going to this run / parade (of course, with the posOM) and then she is upset and then the next day she is not going at all.

HA!

I can remember a month ago, where I would call her or look at her facebook, blog, etc to try to get insight on why she was upset, did they have a fight, bad day at work, etc. Now, I dont care. 

It was another good feeling for me. It seems those feelings are coming more and more lately. 

Until next time......


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Good for you, babydoll! Keep up the awesome work!!!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Good for you, babydoll! Keep up the awesome work!!!


You know I will. I like feeling this way too much to stop.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

Hermes,

Wait till POSOM dumps her, she quits running and eats too much brownies.:rofl:

It will not be a pretty sight.

I hope you are keeping your distance as much as possible for your own health and morale.

HM64


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Hermes,
> 
> ...


I am. I dont call her. I dont text her. Nothing. Let her sink on her own. Not my concern. 

And yes. It will not be a pretty sight.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Maybe not pretty, but freaking hilarious!

Brownies are bad, mmmkay?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Maybe not pretty, but freaking hilarious!
> 
> Brownies are bad, mmmkay?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, today has been a tiny step backwards. Nothing happened and I did not act on my thoughts, but I miss her today for the first time in weeks. My sister is throwing a party tonight and this is the first year the ex won't be there. Could be worse. I could have called or texted here about missing her, but I have come too far to allow that. Thankfully, I was able to push the thoughts out, but I still had them. 1 day at a time I guess.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, today has been a tiny step backwards. Nothing happened and I did not act on my thoughts, but I miss her today for the first time in weeks. My sister is throwing a party tonight and this is the first year the ex won't be there. Could be worse. I could have called or texted here about missing her, but I have come too far to allow that. Thankfully, I was able to push the thoughts out, but I still had them. 1 day at a time I guess.


This is called self-regulation. It's actually not a step backward, but a step FORWARD.

There have been so many times you caved.

Congrats.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> This is called self-regulation. It's actually not a step backward, but a step FORWARD.
> 
> There have been so many times you caved.
> 
> Congrats.


Thanks. That is how I am looking at it. I got a little upset with myslf for missing her though. I know i dont miss her, but what I remember of her. So it upset me to have those feelings. It was only for a split second though.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. That is how I am looking at it. I got a little upset with myslf for missing her though. I know i dont miss her, but what I remember of her.


Hermes,

We are recovering codependents.

Self-regulation is essential to manage it.

We shouldn't be shot for actually giving a damn.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> We are recovering codependents.
> 
> ...


I know. I got upset with myself for missing someone that does not deserve to take up my energy. I have more important things that deserve that then her. it was only for a second then I told myself getting upset with myself is the same poor use of energy. Either way she had control of my emotions. So I checked that at the door.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I know. I got upset with myself for missing someone that does not deserve to take up my energy. I have more important things that deserve that then her. it was only for a second then I told myself getting upset with myself is the same poor use of energy. Either way she had control of my emotions. So I checked that at the door.


But, you still have a heart.

That's not entirely bad


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Go and enjoy the party.

Be yourself.

Confident, high self esteem and the guy we all like on TAM.

That is all you need.

No pity party tonight, no thoughts of her just have fun.

HM64


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> Go and enjoy the party.
> 
> ...


I already forgot about it. 5 minute pity party earlier. 

Thanks hm64.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> I already forgot about it. 5 minute pity party earlier.
> 
> Thanks hm64.


Happy gets it!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Ok, so I need a little guidance here. I want to make sure I am not being crazy....

So, as you may see in this thread, over the last few weeks, my exwife has been doing things that I would consider "tests" to get me to engage in her craziness. 

For example:

- The offer for us all to go to Disney World
- She mentions to our daughter about meeting her "new" friends while on speakerphone in front of me
- Asking me if she can introduce our daughter to the posOM
- When our daughter got sick. Explaining to me how she cant take off work because she is in a new position.
- The sudden decision to not go to the run/parade

I took all these as test to get me to engage. To question who/what/where/when/why, etc. Of course, i did not. 

So today, she calls me to ask if I can have our daughter a few hours early. I say of course. I expect the conversation to end at that. She then goes into why. "I am meeting some new friends and driving them..." I stop her there and say, "M, it does not matter why, I will take A early today. No problem." I then ask for our daughter. i say good morning and talk to her for a few minutes. The ex wife gets back on the phone and continues to tell me why she wants to drop her off early. "A does not know these people and I dont want to bring her in front of them, I could ask my parents, but figured you would rather have her. I want time with her, but i forgot I already promised this." Again I told her thats fine. I dont need an explanation. It does not matter. I will see you at 2:30. 

Is this a game to get me to engage with her? I take it as she is trying any way to get me to question what is going on with her life and get me to either talk to her about it or argue with her (so she feels justified in her actions).

Am i taking crazy pills here?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Ok, so I need a little guidance here. I want to make sure I am not being crazy....
> 
> So, as you may see in this thread, over the last few weeks, my exwife has been doing things that I would consider "tests" to get me to engage in her craziness.
> 
> ...


Hermes.

The game you are playing is with yourself.

If you truly believe in the "You don't need to tell me, I don't care. All I want is my daughter." then you wouldn't be pondering these things afterwards.

There would be no 'test'.

No 'why is she doing this'.

And so forth.

You should be asking yourself why *you* even care enough about this to put time into it.

You've got extra time with your daughter, other than that what has changed?

Nothing.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Hermes.
> 
> The game you are playing is with yourself.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Point taken. You are correct. Nothing changed.

I was only curious if my observations were correct. Not so much why she is doing it.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Agreed. Point taken. You are correct. Nothing changed.
> 
> I was only curious if my observations were correct. Not so much why she is doing it.


Where is the focus on your observation though.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I see that. 

The way I take this is that my focus is on me, since my goal is to better understand my observations that I make about others, in relariin to how they act towards me. Granted some focus is given to her, since I am questioning her actions in this case. 

Trust me I get where you are coming from though. I do see focus being on her here. I also see it being on me. 

It is a new thing that I am doing. Observing without having emotion attached to it.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Well if you want to dive into it.

She's either doing it to try and get your attention.

Or not even aware of what she's doing due to her own personal excitement.

But, I insist.

As long as your daughter isn't in moral or physical danger.

Who cares.



Recognize it.

Move on.

(Which I know you are doing).


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Well if you want to dive into it.
> 
> She's either doing it to try and get your attention.
> 
> ...


Thanks up. I agree. It does not effect my little one. In fact quite the opposite. I get her more. And I am a far more stable presence right now. 

All i cared about was that my observations were at least on the right track. I may be right or wrong, but at least I am not totally off base. This will be a valuable thing to have in future relationships and life in general and if I am making completely off base observations, whats the point in observing?

Thanks. And yes. I am moving on.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks up. I agree. It does not effect my little one. In fact quite the opposite. I get her more. And I am a far more stable presence right now.
> 
> All i cared about was that my observations were at least on the right track. I may be right or wrong, but at least I am not totally off base. This will be a valuable thing to have in future relationships and life in general and if I am making completely off base observations, whats the point in observing?
> 
> Thanks. And yes. I am moving on.


Mistakes will be made down the road.

Regardless of how 'good' we think we can observe.

It's how we learn.

How we deal with it though and work through it. 

That's the real test.

Also, observing all the time takes you out of 'the moment'.

Have a blast with your daughter when you get her (I know you already plan on doing so).


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

dont take the bait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Mistakes will be made down the road.
> 
> Regardless of how 'good' we think we can observe.
> 
> ...


Thanks up. 

Its funny you say that about observing. I have thought to myself how I will get down from observing actions to actually enjoy positive ones. 

One day at a time. 

Thanks. Yep we will have a blast this week. I think I will take her to disney again this weekend.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

You're doing great, dear!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> You're doing great, dear!


Thanks Katy.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes, 

In my opinion, this has to do with her not adjusting well to you no longer making her the purpose of your whole existence. In other words, she misses you making her feel like she's the center of the universe. She misses you caring about what she does and why. Great job at not falling for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Hermes,
> 
> In my opinion, this has to do with her not adjusting well to you no longer making her the purpose of your whole existence. In other words, she misses you making her feel like she's the center of the universe. She misses you caring about what she does and why. Great job at not falling for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she has posom for that. 

Thanks script. I have to check on you. How are things?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I agree with TD, it takes TIME.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I am sorry to hear that. I will have to go catch up on your thread tonight. 






Lifescript said:


> I agree with TD, it takes TIME.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a plenty of time.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Well, break out the 2x4's......

So, the exwife came over last night (to drop off our daughter). She gave me her clothes and blankets (for school, since we share them). She told me she did not wash the blankets. No big deal. She then told me she could only give me one uniform, since the others were dirty and she did not want to give me dirty clothes......Ok. You just gave me dirty sheets, but draw the line at clothes. Of course, I kept my mouth shut.

She then says she can bring them by tonight. I dont answer. She leaves.

She calls me 45 minutes later to ask how our daughter is. uhhh.....fine. she has been away from you for 45 minutes. How do you think she is? Of course, I just say, "she is fine". She then goes on to explain to me AGAIN, what she was doing. I tell her AGAIN it does not matter. 

We get off the phone and thats it for the day from her.

This morning, she tells our daughter that she is coming by tonight to drop off clothes and will see her for a few minutes. 

the day goes on and I get this email from the ex:

M—

Hi! Three questions:
1)	May I bring over A’s other uniforms and any other clothing you may need, tonight?
2)	A asked me if she could show me a scene in Scooby Doo at your place. She asked me again yesterday and told me we could even skip ahead to it. Would you mind if I did come by to drop off the clothes, if she showed me that one scene? I understand, it wouldn’t be good to make stopping in a regular thing, as that would be confusing, so I don’t plan on making a habit of it, don’t worry!
3)	A’s dance outfit—she needs to have a uniform for dance class. Want to split it? Did you already fill out the paperwork for her measurements? 
Lastly, just an FYI—I paid for her month of pizza.

Thanks,
M

So, i respond with:

M,

Hello. 

As to your questions:

1)	That is fine. Please give me a time, so I can make plans to ensure we are home.
2) That is fine, as well, however, A has already asked why you don’t live here if you come over to our house. As you stated, this can not be a habit, as it only extends her confusion.
3)	I have already purchased an outfit for her and am waiting for it to be delivered. I would prefer to separate purchases like this, as much as possible, so as to reduce the amount of items that are shared by the two of us.

Stupid.

Am i a glutten for punishment from her? 

Where is the lumber when i need it?


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

I fail to see the problem with your response.

Seems like a job well done, to me.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I fail to see the problem with your response.
> 
> Seems like a job well done, to me.
> 
> ...


I feel like I should not have easily given her the chance to enter my house and spend time with our daughter as if we are a happy family. 

She gave up time yesterday to spend with our daughter so she can go jump a friends car. Why am i allowing her to essentially make that time up? you know.

I think i should have just said "I can copy the episode to a USB stick and you can watch it at your house" or something along those lines.

I also feel like, in regards to her recent constant actions (trying many times to get me to engage with her, trying to tell me what she is doing, etc) that I may get hope up that it all means something positive. Now, she is coming over with the lamest excuse that I can imagine. I dont know. I feel like I backtracked a little.

whatever, pick myself up and get it over with.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

You didn't expect your changes to go unnoticed, did you?

She sees you're okay without her.

It's time to pull out the big guns.

Or Scooby Doo scenes.

*severe eye roll*

You're doing great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> You didn't expect your changes to go unnoticed, did you?
> 
> She sees you're okay without her.
> 
> ...


thanks! 

And no, I expected this. 

dont bring scooby into this. 

You know your eyes will get stuck like that one day.....


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Good!

Then I won't have to put forth any effort, seeing as how I roll my eyes all the time.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Don't see a problem with this Hermes. 

If anything, you're doing this because your daughter wants it, not your ex. 


The reason why you feel like you backtracked a little bit is because you've had more contact than usual with her. They are like kriptonite to us, we start second guessing when they are around but with time you'll get to a place where no matter what she does, you will be so confident and not think this way. 

I say good job! 

Not sure about the rest but agree with Katy, you did good.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, she came. Was here for 5 minutes max. Came in we said hi. She went to our daughter hugged her and kissed her. They watched 1 minute of tv and she said she had to leave. We said bye and she left. 

Also, the whole reason she came here was to drop off clothes. She did not dry them enough. So I got soaking wet clothes. 

Meh.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Better the wet clothes and your D.

Your ex is a fruitcake, so just endure it for your kid.

Your responses to her were spot on.

And I probably do not have remind you that Megan will be in your life forever in some capacity.

Sucks but is true.

HM64


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> Better the wet clothes and your D.
> 
> ...


Thanks hm64. She is bat**** crazy right now. I will endure it for my little one. Yes we are going to be in each others lives for ever. Oh well.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Don't see a problem with this Hermes.
> 
> If anything, you're doing this because your daughter wants it, not your ex.
> 
> ...


This is soooo my problem, in a nutshell, cant wait till I can get to that place, sorry for the thread jack


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

our vision shattered said:


> This is soooo my problem, in a nutshell, cant wait till I can get to that place, sorry for the thread jack


You're gettin' there, dear.

Be patient.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

our vision shattered said:


> This is soooo my problem, in a nutshell, cant wait till I can get to that place, sorry for the thread jack



No need to apologize. 

You will get there. 

Yes. It is because I have had increased communication with her the last few days. I am sure her craziness wont stop anytime soon. Fun times ahead.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> No need to apologize.
> 
> You will get there.
> 
> Yes. It is because I have had increased communication with her the last few days. I am sure her craziness wont stop anytime soon. Fun times ahead.


Don't worry when the kid gets to be 15 like d is she calls you every day and you hardly have to talk to ex. Unlees of course like mine who is fishing after 2 years because her ap cheated on her after a year now that I'm dating again gee go figure


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I went to therapy yesterday. It went very well. The therapist is surprised how well i have gotten through this all. We talked about everything that has happened since Thanksgiving (the last time I saw her, since she was out of town). She thinks I handled a lot of it very well. 

We talked about the recent actions of the ex wife (the "games and tests"). She told me to stop backpeddling with it. I am analyzing things too much. As Up said, I am only playing the game with myself. She said, that it makes no difference what her intentions are. So what if she is missing me, playing games, feeling guilty, etc, it makes no difference and to analyze that is just going to make me go crazy. She said that what i am doing is obviously doing something, since the exwife has initiated more communication lately, so to just continue to do what i am doing and not care about what she does. So, that is the plan. Pick myself up and stop caring about it. I was doing well without talking to her. I need to get to the point where I dont care about her when i am communicating with her more frequently. Still some work to do, I guess. Overall, she was very happy with my progress, as am I.

I did tell the therapist about TAM. I told her that this place has been absolutely instrumental in getting me to where I am. She is going to recommend this site to her clients.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

You've come a long way, in a short time.

I'm proud of you, darling.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> You've come a long way, in a short time.
> 
> I'm proud of you, darling.


Thanks. Still have a little bit more to work on. Getting there.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks. Still have a little bit more to work on. Getting there.


Keep it up.

I actually saw my family doctor for the first time since May today.

Back in May I was a crying mess and I went to talk her almost weekly.

She couldn't believe how I've changed.

The occasional non sought after validation isn't a bad thing


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Keep it up.
> 
> I actually saw my family doctor for the first time since May today.
> 
> ...


That is awesome. I need to go to the doctor too......

Yes, it made me happy when she said how well she thought I was doing..


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

You should be very proud of yourself! :smthumbup:

And you'll get to the point where the increased communication won't bother you so much - it's all part of the process.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> You should be very proud of yourself! :smthumbup:
> 
> And you'll get to the point where the increased communication won't bother you so much - it's all part of the process.


:iagree:


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> You should be very proud of yourself! :smthumbup:
> 
> And you'll get to the point where the increased communication won't bother you so much - it's all part of the process.


yeah. It sucks. It is still bothering me. It has been a few days now and I still cant get it out my head. Damn it. Not talking at all was so much easier.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Don't be so hard on yourself! 

Of course it's gonna be a lot easier when you don't talk to her - it's kinda like the whole "outta sight - outta mind" thing.

Like I said, it's a process - a process you'll learn to work thru.

I, myself, have spent the last few days being pissed at myself and at STBXH after learning of him taking on the Daddy role with posOG's child when he never desired a child with me. I'm angry but not as angry as I was a few days ago - I'm learning/finding a way to work thru it.

It's a process... it's like we've allowed ourselves to be taken back a few steps - well then, the only option is to move forward then, huh?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> yeah. It sucks. It is still bothering me. It has been a few days now and I still cant get it out my head. Damn it. Not talking at all was so much easier.


Easier. Yes.

Real life. No.

Get used to it Hermes. 

Do the best you can.

If all fails tell her this


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> I, myself, have spent the last few days being pissed at myself and at STBXH after learning of him taking on the Daddy role with posOG's child when he never desired a child with me..


 If you ever decide you still want a child I'd be happy to help with that


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself!
> 
> Of course it's gonna be a lot easier when you don't talk to her - it's kinda like the whole "outta sight - outta mind" thing.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I know what i need to do. I dont like feeling like i backslid so much because of a few conversations. I dont want to obsess over them and yet, I am. Oh well. It will get better. 



NoWhere said:


> If you ever decide you still want a child I'd be happy to help with that


Great. Is this my punishment for hijacking your thread and blaming it on frost? You come here and offer your fertilization services?

Just great. 



happyman64 said:


> Easier. Yes.
> 
> Real life. No.
> 
> ...


I am. It is easier, but I know that is not realistic. This was the first time we had increased communication since this started, so there is going to be a learning curve. I will get through it.

Thanks you guys.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> If you ever decide you still want a child I'd be happy to help with that


NoWhere you sly Dog. I was waiting for you to go there.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I sent my brother in law an email earlier today. He has been great at getting me back on solid ground. He sent me back this:

I know you and m were together for a long time so I am sure that you feel that you know her better maybe than anyone. What’s weird about that is that from the beginning it seemed like you were treating her behavior as unusual. Like she’s going through a phase, bad patch, or midlife crisis. But the more I have observed her, the less out of character she seems. Hearing her talk about why she does or does not do certain things feels perfectly familiar. I’ve been listening to her give these crappy reasons my whole life. 

I feel like you are missing a m that never really existed. What she’s doing now she’s doing for the same reasons she’s always done everything. I can’t imagine that she was any different while you were together, you just never realized it. I know you’re going to say that you knew her and she wasn’t that way, but then again you were the one who was surprised. I wasn’t all that surprised. Horrified yes, surprised not so much.

So my question is: what the hell are you missing? M isn’t going to revert back to what she was, this is what she was. She just didn’t show you.

and we are back. He always helps me see things the way they are.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> NoWhere you sly Dog. I was waiting for you to go there.


 I just like to help those in need. 

I'm a very giving person!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I sent my brother in law an email earlier today. He has been great at getting me back on solid ground. He sent me back this:
> 
> I know you and m were together for a long time so I am sure that you feel that you know her better maybe than anyone. What’s weird about that is that from the beginning it seemed like you were treating her behavior as unusual. Like she’s going through a phase, bad patch, or midlife crisis. But the more I have observed her, the less out of character she seems. Hearing her talk about why she does or does not do certain things feels perfectly familiar. I’ve been listening to her give these crappy reasons my whole life.
> 
> ...


Sad that your wife does not exhibit the openness and good communication skills of her brother.

You should have married him.

And he is right.

Protect your kid,,,, from her mother.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Sad that your wife does not exhibit the openness and good communication skills of her brother.
> 
> You should have married him.
> 
> ...


My daughter, him and sister in law are the best things to come out of my marriage. 

Thanks hm.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Well awesome weekend this weekend. I took my daughter to Disney World again this weekend. She absolutely loved it. That is 1 of the nice thing about living so close we can go at least once or twice a month since we have annual passes. It was a lot of fun. 

It was crazy there this weekend though. They opened a new section in fantasy land. There's a ride called Belles Enchanted Tales which was an hour and 45 minute wait, but it was worth it because it was actually a play that my daughter got to act in as an enchanted salt shaker. So adorable. 

Unfortunately she goes back to her moms for the weak today. So now I'll have a week to just work on me which will be nice. Moving forward.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Great stuff Hermes. My kid loved it when I took him to Disney last May. Keept it up!


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Well awesome weekend this weekend. I took my daughter to Disney World again this weekend. She absolutely loved it. That is 1 of the nice thing about living so close we can go at least once or twice a month since we have annual passes. It was a lot of fun.
> 
> It was crazy there this weekend though. They opened a new section in fantasy land. There's a ride called Belles Enchanted Tales which was an hour and 45 minute wait, but it was worth it because it was actually a play that my daughter got to act in as an enchanted salt shaker. So adorable.
> 
> Unfortunately she goes back to her moms for the weak today. So now I'll have a week to just work on me which will be nice. Moving forward.


Glad you guys had a great time. Have a fantastic week!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Glad you guys had a great time. Have a fantastic week!


Thanks man. You too!


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## LoveDr (Dec 16, 2012)

This relationship has clearly reached its climax. Fighting for whatever reason will strain the relationship further and cause more damage. Let her go and continue on with your journy of life. There are still good women out there, you just need to get out and attract them.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

LoveDr said:


> This relationship has clearly reached its climax. Fighting for whatever reason will strain the relationship further and cause more damage. Let her go and continue on with your journy of life. There are still good women out there, you just need to get out and attract them.


Agreed. No one is fighting any more for it.....


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

You are so lucky to have someone in your life like your BIL - he seems like a really awesome person - I hope you plan on filing for custody of him and SIL in the divorce along with your darling little girl!!!

And I'm so jealous of you and your little girls frequent trips to Disney - I'm glad you two had a great time, I can just imagine her in all her enchanted salt shaker glory - adorable!!! 

I've only been once and the guy who I was dating at the time made me cry at the happiest place on earth!!! Urgh - clearly my taste in "men" has been off for quite some time!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> You are so lucky to have someone in your life like your BIL - he seems like a really awesome person - I hope you plan on filing for custody of him and SIL in the divorce along with your darling little girl!!!
> 
> And I'm so jealous of you and your little girls frequent trips to Disney - I'm glad you two had a great time, I can just imagine her in all her enchanted salt shaker glory - adorable!!!
> 
> I've only been once and the guy who I was dating at the time made me cry at the happiest place on earth!!! Urgh - clearly my taste in "men" has been off for quite some time!


What a douche. It is the happiest place on earth. I absolutely love going. 

I am going to post a video on FB later of her as an enchanted salt shaker. It was adorable. Terrible lines though. I guess with winter vacations and the new attractions opening, it was bound to be busier than usual. 

I am lucky to have them. He has kept me grounded when I have needed it. It is good to have him around, since he does not tell me what I want to hear. Since he knows her so well, he tells me what i need to hear, which has helped immensely. I would file custody of them, but they are not going anywhere. He has gotten into arguments with his dad already about me. His dad (of course, believing everything the ex says, which is understandable) has said some crappy things to my BIL about me and how I am no longer family and he argued back saying that I am his brother no matter what happens with the wife. I do truly love them both as my siblings. 

You should go back to Disney. They did finally start serving beer in Magic Kingdom, which is always a good thing when dealing with those lines and heat.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> You should go back to Disney. They did finally start serving beer in Magic Kingdom, which is always a good thing when dealing with those lines and heat.


:smthumbup:

Let's go, EE!


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am going to post a video on FB later of her as an enchanted salt shaker. It was adorable. Terrible lines though. I guess with winter vacations and the new attractions opening, it was bound to be busier than usual.


I'll keep an eye out for that then - I can only imagine the mega cuteness that will be oozing from my monitor!  



Hermes said:


> I am lucky to have them. He has kept me grounded when I have needed it. It is good to have him around, since he does not tell me what I want to hear. Since he knows her so well, he tells me what i need to hear, which has helped immensely. I would file custody of them, but they are not going anywhere. He has gotten into arguments with his dad already about me. His dad (of course, believing everything the ex says, which is understandable) has said some crappy things to my BIL about me and how I am no longer family and he argued back saying that I am his brother no matter what happens with the wife. I do truly love them both as my siblings.


That just rocks! And it's people like that that you need to be surrounded with esp when going thru something like this. Some friends think it's best to coddle you and tell you what they think you want to hear but I think that is doing a great disservice. It's the people who are upfront and don't bs that really help - that's why I like this place so much! And it's so cool that BIL sticks up for you and isn't afraid of what the rest of his fam might think of you - that really shows what kind of stand up guy he is. Like I said - you are very lucky!!! 



Hermes said:


> You should go back to Disney. They did finally start serving beer in Magic Kingdom, which is always a good thing when dealing with those lines and heat.


I would love to go back - gosh, it's been like 12 years since I went so can even fathom the amount of stuff that's been changed/added since then - and I bet the beer is a plus waiting in those 1-1/2 long lines!!!


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Let's go, EE!


Hells yeah girl, I'm down!!!

Hermes - we're gonna need a guide - you up for the task???


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Let's go, EE!


Oh boy. Watch out Orlando. 



Eternal Embrace said:


> I'll keep an eye out for that then - I can only imagine the mega cuteness that will be oozing from my monitor!


She is adorable. I posted a screenshot from the video on facebook just now.



Eternal Embrace said:


> That just rocks! And it's people like that that you need to be surrounded with esp when going thru something like this. Some friends think it's best to coddle you and tell you what they think you want to hear but I think that is doing a great disservice. It's the people who are upfront and don't bs that really help - that's why I like this place so much! And it's so cool that BIL sticks up for you and isn't afraid of what the rest of his fam might think of you - that really shows what kind of stand up guy he is. Like I said - you are very lucky!!!


I agree. I would be a wreck if not for those people that dont sugar coat it. I am very thankful for the people on here that have not kissed my a$$ and told me what i wanted to hear. I would be no where near where I am if that was the case. That is why I love them. He does not care what his family thinks. I am his family and if they dont like it (it is only the dad that does not like me), then it is their problem. We still see each other every day (we go to the gym at lunch together everyday and get together on the weekend to watch Walking Dead, Homeland or Game of Thrones). He is a great guy. His girlfriend (who i consider my sister in law) is great as well. I truly am very lucky to have them.



Eternal Embrace said:


> I would love to go back - gosh, it's been like 12 years since I went so can even fathom the amount of stuff that's been changed/added since then - and I bet the beer is a plus waiting in those 1-1/2 long lines!!!


A lot has changed since you were there last. You should definitely go. There is a marathon there every year through the park. Maybe go during that? I think I will go next year to it. That way, you are going to have fun and be healthy. Then you can drink beer and loose any benefit you got from the running.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Hells yeah girl, I'm down!!!
> 
> Hermes - we're gonna need a guide - you up for the task???


You know damn well, I am!


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

The exwife just emailed me this:



> Hi!
> 
> I just got a call from Focus Financial.
> Something about a bill for A's that they spoke to you about.
> ...


I responded with this:



> Hi.
> 
> Yes, they just called me. They called me last week. I did not bring it to your attention, since I had no evidence, other than a phone call. I was waiting on a physical bill to come in. She had 2 doctor appointments that your insurance did not cover for emergency room visits. The total owed is $430.62. I asked for a bill to be sent to me, so we can review. Once I get it, I will send you a copy. No, I do not have online access to it.
> 
> ...


I plan to send her the MSA this week as well as a Parenting Plan. I will then tell her that I will file the divorce, but she is paying for it.


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> The exwife just emailed me this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done. I think you put enough info in for her to be clear on where everything stands that way she doesn't have to keep coming back with more questions.

Good job, sir!


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Here's my question.

How does she not remember what's going on with your MSA, but I do?!

I'm sure her dad remembers, too...


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Oh boy. Watch out Orlando.


We'll try and keep it classy... but note that I said "try" 




Hermes said:


> She is adorable. I posted a screenshot from the video on facebook just now.


Just saw it - way too freakin' cute!!! And I love her little dress - she looks like she fit right in with Belle!



Hermes said:


> A lot has changed since you were there last. You should definitely go. There is a marathon there every year through the park. Maybe go during that? I think I will go next year to it. That way, you are going to have fun and be healthy. Then you can drink beer and loose any benefit you got from the running.


Ummm, I might want to mention that the only time I run is when someone is chasing me... maybe I could go to that, get my beer mug, watch the other runners and toast them while they go by for all their good effort!?!?:scratchhead:


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Well done. I think you put enough info in for her to be clear on where everything stands that way she doesn't have to keep coming back with more questions.
> 
> Good job, sir!


Exactly. Knowing her though, she will "forget" or figure out new questions. Meh



HappyKaty said:


> Here's my question.
> 
> How does she not remember what's going on with your MSA, but I do?!
> 
> I'm sure her dad remembers, too...


Because she is in fantasy land (and not the good one you are in  ). 

I am sure her dad remembers, as well.



Eternal Embrace said:


> We'll try and keep it classy... but note that I said "try"


Well, as your official tour guide, I will have to advise against that. You are in a different zip code. Live it up. 



Eternal Embrace said:


> Just saw it - way too freakin' cute!!! And I love her little dress - she looks like she fit right in with Belle!


Thanks. She is adorable. She loved it. I posted some other pics of her meeting belle. She talked about it all day. 



Eternal Embrace said:


> Ummm, I might want to mention that the only time I run is when someone is chasing me... maybe I could go to that, get my beer mug, watch the other runners and toast them while they go by for all their good effort!?!?:scratchhead:


Well then, you are in luck. They have a Zombie Run every year. You have zombies and humans. The humans start 5 minutes before the zombies and the zombies chase the humans.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I got to wake up with a laugh this morning. My younger sister (who i have not confided much in, since we are not as close as my older sister) sent me a text an hour ago with 2 pictures. I download them and they are screenshots from Facebook. So, i look and they are posts from my exwife to the posOM (my younger sister friended the OM when this happened). 

First post on 11/29:

exwife - I miss your face  On the upside, I still have some of the chocolate you brought me....

no response

2nd post:

12/20 - exwife - Hi. 

posOM - I flippin love you! So hi back!

This put me in such a good mood. For some reason seeing them post like that put me in a good mood. I laughed in the shower about it. 

- He is obviously codependent. 
- She still shows married on Facebook, yet is openly sending messages to the OM. 
- They are already (after 2 months) saying I love you. HA!
- she is dating the same man as me, except a new face and body. same crap will happen.

Meanwhile, I will only get better. puts a smile on my face.

These antics continue to solidify my desire for divorce vs reconciliation. I had a good laugh at it. I was not mad or sad at all. It was a good feeling. so, I decided that I will file divorce after the new year and send her the bill. I am meeting my attorney this week to start. 

On a side note, I went and started the tattoo sleeves last night. I will post some pics once they are ready. My tattoo artist is designing them now and I will start January 2nd. Cant wait!

Hope everyone else has a great day.

On another side note, specifically for UP, I started reading Awareness, after your countless recommendations, and it is great. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I know I am a little older at 48 but all I can say Hermes is what came to my mind after seeing the Facebook posts:

How juvenile your wife and the OM are!!!

You have a great day.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> I know I am a little older at 48 but all I can say Hermes is what came to my mind after seeing the Facebook posts:
> 
> How juvenile your wife and the OM are!!!
> 
> You have a great day.


I would say more experienced.  I will be 30 this year. (The om is 32 and the exwife is 29)

yep, exactly the same from me. I thought I was reading 2 teenagers passing notes in 5th period.....

I could not help but laugh. I am still (2 hours later) in a good mood from it.

Thanks HM. You too.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh, the things they do! 

Teenagers are so vivid.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Oh, the things they do!
> 
> Teenagers are so vivid.


Exactly. I have never used the word "flippin". Comical, to say the least. 

Saw the ex just now at our daughters christmas play. Sat separately, since she got there late (of course), and when the play was over she came to us (me and her brother and his girlfriend) and did not even acknowledge me. I was absolutely fine with that. We (ex and I) held our daughters hand and walked her back to the class, without a word to each other. 

Meh.

My little one was absolutely adorable in her chicken costume. I will post a pic in a minute.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Cutie patootie!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Cutie patootie!


thanks. She is adorable. 

Apparently, in this play, there were also chickens in the manger with baby jesus......


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> thanks. She is adorable.
> 
> Apparently, in this play, there were also chickens in the manger with baby jesus......


Well, why wouldn't there be?! 

It's a good thing, though, because she makes the cutest chicken, ever.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

At least your daughter can utter the word 'Jesus' without everyone gasping in disapproval.

Christmas Concerts are no longer as such around these parts.

"Holiday Concert".

Aka.

International Music Festival.

They sing different nationality songs.

No Canadian one of course.

That would make the minority happy. 

I find the humor in it.

I'm atheist, yet have no problem saying Merry Christmas and celebrating as so.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> At least your daughter can utter the word 'Jesus' without everyone gasping in disapproval.
> 
> Christmas Concerts are no longer as such around these parts.
> 
> ...


I am with you UP. I am an athiest (my exwife is a Catholic). We decided that our daughter would be raised with both philosophies in mind. I am sure the ex will be upset now, though, since I will pushing back more on this issue, since I have been a pushover with that as well.

It never bothers me to say Merry Christmas or never bothers me to have nativity scenes or christian symbols in public places. I never understood the medias fascination with the atheist "attack on Christmas" BS. Meh.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

I think you guys are awesome for having such open minds.

The atheists, around here, aren't so accomodating to Christian beliefs.

Or, maybe their own beliefs are just magnified and bantered by the holier than thou organizations, in this insanely hypocritical state.

Either way, kudos to y'all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I think you guys are awesome for having such open minds.
> 
> The atheists, around here, aren't so accomodating to Christian beliefs.
> 
> ...


I know a lot of atheists that are so uptight about it. I just dont get it. I hate bible thumping Christians, I am not going to be a hypocrite and do the same. You believe what you want and as long as you dont interfere with me believing what I want, we will get along swimmingly.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Not really an update, but since I post everything that happens, I figured I would post this as well. 

I found out last night that our daughter has met the posOM. Funny enough, I was not surprised, shocked, upset or anything. I had absolutely no emotion towards it. 

The exwife is an adult. I can not control her and this was bound to happen sooner or later. But, it was nice realizing it did not faze me at all. Now, just to get indifferent on everything else.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

I think that's great, dear. 

A will appreciate your indifference, one day, because I'd be willing to bet M won't be the same when you introduce A to your new lady.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I think that's great, dear.
> 
> A will appreciate your indifference, one day, because I'd be willing to bet M won't be the same when you introduce A to your new lady.


Agreed. She wont be. Not my problem though. 

Have a great day!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Indifference is good.

By the way I am Catholic Hermes, and I do not think your wife is a very good one.
In fact, she is pretty bad period.

But you cannot control her. Only you.

By the way your daughter looked very cute in her costume.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

What areas do you lack indifference in?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I love tattoos!!!! I can't wait till I get my next one!!! I can't wait to see the design/ pics!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Indifference is good.
> 
> By the way I am Catholic Hermes, and I do not think your wife is a very good one.
> In fact, she is pretty bad period.
> ...


Thanks HM. I agree. She will be what she wants to be. Nothing anyone can do about it. 

Thanks! She was adorable. I am going to post a video on Youtube and I will share the link. Just precious.

She is not the person I thought she was. A good example of that happened last night. 

I went to a bar with my brother in law. We were there for 6 hours. We talked about all the things I have learned. He started telling me things that he has noticed from M, since I gave him the books about Victim Consciousness, De Mello, NMMNG, etc. 

So, the wife that I knew absolutely hated the TV show Toddlers in Tiaras. Hated it. Was horrified how the young girls were forced to dress and seem sexual, etc. So, my BIL tells me he came home one night and found her watching the show. He made a comment about how terrible what the show is doing is. Her response? "I dont see what is wrong with it. They are making them pretty and those girls can now realize they can get what they want by being pretty".......WTF? Mind you, this is coming from someone that has a 4 year old girl! I have to watch her extra carefully now. 

Reconciliation will never happen between us. 



UpnOver said:


> What areas do you lack indifference in?


Occasionally, I still care about how my actions will affect her and what she will think about them. To be fair, I do not change or adjust my decisions based on that feeling, but it is still there. And it goes for both extremes. I may do something that I know I want and it will upset her and I (even knowing it is wrong to feel it) have an emotional reaction to that knowledge. For example, the religion item. I know she will be upset that I am now pushing back on it. In the back of mind, I feel a little happy that I will get to her like that. I then quickly stop that thought, since I know it is wrong and I should not care. But, it just shows I am not entirely indifferent to her yet.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> I love tattoos!!!! I can't wait till I get my next one!!! I can't wait to see the design/ pics!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here is a the basis for the design for my left arm. This is just what the overall design will be like. Very eastern style. Picture Yakuza style tattoo. I am SO excited.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

In the end it won't matter what you push on. Your daughter will grow up knowing what you believe in but in the end will decide what she wants to believe in. All we can do is educate our kids as much as we can while we have them. We are here to help guide them through the trials and tribulations that life passes there way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Here is a the basis for the design for my left arm. This is just what the overall design will be like. Very eastern style. Picture Yakuza style tattoo. I am SO excited.


I will have to look it up - no clue, would love to take the girls to Disney you are so lucky to be so close
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> In the end it won't matter what you push on. Your daughter will grow up knowing what you believe in but in the end will decide what she wants to believe in. All we can do is educate our kids as much as we can while we have them. We are here to help guide them through the trials and tribulations that life passes there way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


absolutely, but at her age (4) she is very impressionable and will listen to her parents blindly. If she is given the impression that dressing and acting in that manner is acceptable, she may do it. The only thing that I can do is be the ground that teaches her right and wrong in the real world.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Here is a the basis for the design for my left arm. This is just what the overall design will be like. Very eastern style. Picture Yakuza style tattoo. I am SO excited.


Sleeves = HOT.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I love half sleeves!!!

Love them!!!!
I love it when I meet someone for the first time and everything is covered up but then u see them again and they have a sleeve or half sleeve it is crazy!


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> absolutely, but at her age (4) she is very impressionable and will listen to her parents blindly. If she is given the impression that dressing and acting in that manner is acceptable, she may do it. The only thing that I can do is be the ground that teaches her right and wrong in the real world.


:iagree: x 10

You're right, Hermes.

She's a princess, not a dress-up doll.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> :iagree: x 10
> 
> You're right, Hermes.
> 
> She's a princess, not a dress-up doll.


exactly. My little princess.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Try having two!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Sleeves = HOT.


 

I start January 2nd. I will do the left arm and then the right. Then I will do a portrait of my daughter over my heart.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I start January 2nd. I will do the left arm and then the right. Then I will do a portrait of my daughter over my heart.


I want to get both of my daughters handwritting somewhere
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I start January 2nd. I will do the left arm and then the right. Then I will do a portrait of my daughter over my heart.


That's awesome!

I'm a sucker for tats.

Ask Up for a pic of his.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> I'm a sucker for tats.
> 
> Ask Up for a pic of his.


How many do you have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> I want to get both of my daughters handwritting somewhere
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that is such a good idea. I really like that.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> I'm a sucker for tats.
> 
> Ask Up for a pic of his.


I will send him a message.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> that is such a good idea. I really like that.


The 7 year olds is ready! I had her write something in her handwritting just waiting on my 4 year old to get to 2nd grade too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> How many do you have?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have two.

I like tattooed men. 

How many do you have?

(sorry for the jack, Hermes)


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I have two.
> 
> I like tattooed men.
> 
> ...


5

I agreed don't look twice if no tattoos
Yes I sorry too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> 5
> 
> I agreed don't look twice if no tattoos
> Yes I sorry too!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hahaha.

Right on.

I heart you.

I want more...NOW.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Hahaha.
> 
> Right on.
> 
> ...


I am thinking an infinity sign with both my daughters initials still playing with it

Sounds like we have a lot in common
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> I am thinking an infinity sign with both my daughters initials still playing with it
> 
> Sounds like we have a lot in common
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am so sorry, Hermes.

I feel terrible.

But, Lee, I want the infinity love symbol on my wrist.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I have two.
> 
> I like tattooed men.
> 
> ...


You know you should not apologize to me. 

I like tattooed woman. 

I have 5 right now. I will cover 2 of them up though with the sleeves.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> You know you should not apologize to me.
> 
> I like tattooed woman.
> 
> I have 5 right now. I will cover 2 of them up though with the sleeves.


Nice to have something in common besides separation and divorce!!'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> You know you should not apologize to me.
> 
> I like tattooed woman.
> 
> I have 5 right now. I will cover 2 of them up though with the sleeves.


What are you covering?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> What are you covering?


Is it weird I like the sound of the artist starting the gun!! Makes me excited!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> What are you covering?


some chinese symbols I got when I was 18. I could not even tell you what they mean. I "think" I know what they mean, but who knows. to be young and stupid. I have 6 symbols (4 on left hand, 2 on right) that will be covered with the sleeves.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> Is it weird I like the sound of the artist starting the gun!! Makes me excited!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol.

I get worried when I hear it.

But, I like the pain.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> some chinese symbols I got when I was 18. I could not even tell you what they mean. I "think" I know what they mean, but who knows. to be young and stupid. I have 6 symbols (4 on left hand, 2 on right) that will be covered with the sleeves.


Not what's on your forearm, though, right?

The tat in your FB pic is awesome!


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I wish this was set up more like a chat room so thing download faster and we could all talk at the same time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Not what's on your forearm, though, right?
> 
> The tat in your FB pic is awesome!


I want to see pics
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I've thought of getting a tattoo of a phoenix but not sure I want to have a tatoo when I'm 60, 70 yrs old KWIM?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I've thought of getting a tattoo of a phoenix but not sure I want to have a tatoo when I'm 60, 70 yrs old KWIM?


Will u care when u are 60 or 70?
Get it on your back u won't see it when u are old
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Not what's on your forearm, though, right?
> 
> The tat in your FB pic is awesome!


No. That one will be integrated into the design for the right arm sleeve.

that is a variation of my name in Theban (a dead dialect used in mesopotamia back in 3,000 bc.....I am a huge history buff / geek....whatever  )



lee101981 said:


> I want to see pics
> _Posted via Mobile Device_














Lifescript said:


> I've thought of getting a tattoo of a phoenix but not sure I want to have a tatoo when I'm 60, 70 yrs old KWIM?


I wanted a phoenix, as well. I like old people with tattoos. My grandfather has some from his time in the marines and they are awesome.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> No. That one will be integrated into the design for the right arm sleeve.
> 
> that is a variation of my name in Theban (a dead dialect used in mesopotamia back in 3,000 bc.....I am a huge history buff / geek....whatever  )
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Up has a Phoenix.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Up has a Phoenix.


Arms?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Arms?


Forearm.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Forearm.


Nice.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Cool tatoo! 

I want the phoenix on my left arm or left side of chest, right above the heart. 

Yeah ... I probably won't care when I'm 60. LOL.

What!! Up has a phoenix!! Oh my lord.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Inner forearm.

Got it a while after my father passed.

I rather enjoy what it symbolises.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Inner forearm.
> 
> Got it a while after my father passed.
> 
> I rather enjoy what it symbolises.


I like the symbolism of the Phoenix. 

I am too big of a comic book geek, though. I would always picture Jean Gray or the Shi'ar protecting the M'Kraan crystal......


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

how you holding up Herm?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I like what it means too. That's why if I ever get a tatoo, it will be the phoenix.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> how you holding up Herm?


I am doing great, actually. Every day it gets easier and easier. I still have a few things to work through, but recent events have really put me in a position of not caring about anything with her. 

How about you?


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am doing great, actually. Every day it gets easier and easier. I still have a few things to work through, but recent events have really put me in a position of not caring about anything with her.
> 
> How about you?


Each day it gets better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I am doing great, actually. Every day it gets easier and easier. I still have a few things to work through, but recent events have really put me in a position of not caring about anything with her.
> 
> How about you?


Touch and go. I had to spend 3 hrs at a school function around her yesterday and it was tough. I posted about it. Being around all the families and kids made me feel a bit sad and defeated. I did great, cool indifferent didn't hang with her at all, but it felt unnatural. Made me miss my family....badly. Was a hit to my ego that she is willing to throw so much away to be with some doorknob. A bit of a dichotomy in that I know no I could never forgive her but am still mourning. Glad to hear you are in a good place.


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Touch and go. I had to spend 3 hrs at a school function around her yesterday and it was tough. I posted about it. Being around all the families and kids made me feel a bit sad and defeated. I did great, cool indifferent didn't hang with her at all, but it felt unnatural. Made me miss my family....badly. Was a hit to my ego that she is willing to throw so much away to be with some doorknob. A bit of a dichotomy in that I know no I could never forgive her but am still mourning. Glad to hear you are in a good place.


I can relate!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> Each day it gets better
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It gets better only if YOU make it better, though. Just thinking that every day it will get better takes the power away from you and leaves your healing up to chance and circumstance. Carpe Diem.



Too Little Too Late? said:


> Touch and go. I had to spend 3 hrs at a school function around her yesterday and it was tough. I posted about it. Being around all the families and kids made me feel a bit sad and defeated. I did great, cool indifferent didn't hang with her at all, but it felt unnatural. Made me miss my family....badly. Was a hit to my ego that she is willing to throw so much away to be with some doorknob. A bit of a dichotomy in that I know no I could never forgive her but am still mourning. Glad to hear you are in a good place.


It is understandable. You are not indifferent to her yet. You want to be, which is a big step. I know how you feel, though. I took our daughter to Disney and seeing all the smiling, happy families bummed me out a little. You make the best of it though. I will check out your thread now.

I am in a good place because I realized that the person I married and love was a delusion. She was what I wanted her to be. She was all in my mind. I was blind and asleep. I did not see reality. Once I realized that, it was easy to just let it go.



lee101981 said:


> I can relate!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will get there too lee.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I have some really good days and then somehow he just plays a card from his hand and I let him so really it is my fualt. When I see this happening I look at two sets of eyes 1 set is blue and the other set is green and my strength is renewed.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Since you're checking in on me... I thought I might do the same for you before I get doing more running around!

Things still going good for you? I bet that little princess is all geared up for Christmas!!!

Oh - and the tattoos - LOVE the idea you're going with!!! You better watch out thou - like Katy, I'm a sucker for a tattooed man - esp sleeves!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Since you're checking in on me... I thought I might do the same for you before I get doing more running around!
> 
> Things still going good for you? I bet that little princess is all geared up for Christmas!!!
> 
> Oh - and the tattoos - LOVE the idea you're going with!!! You better watch out thou - like Katy, I'm a sucker for a tattooed man - esp sleeves!!! :smthumbup:


Doing great. Doing a pig roast today. I will post more later. 

Thanks! Talk to you later. Have a great day.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

How did the pig roast turn out?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> How did the pig roast turn out?


It went great. Started at 10:00am and ended at 11:45 pm. It was a lot of fun. I had a meetup group on Friday. We all clicked pretty well, so I am hosting an event this Saturday at my house for them. That should be fun. 

How are you doing lee? 

My ex is getting ridiculous. She does not like rules and boundaries. It is funny to me. She calls this morning about tonight and the holiday custody. Our agreement calls for her to have our daughter on christmas eve and me christmas day. Today starts my week for custody, so I will get her tonight and have to bring her to the exwife tomorrow morning. My ex wife was arguing that how it makes no sense for me to have her for one night, blah blah blah. how she is only looking out for our daughter well-being. I stood firm and told her that the agreement clearly outlines this. She got upset and "had to go".

Now, had she asked me to keep our daughter 1 more night (regardless of the reason), I would have said that is fine, since there will be days where I will ask the same thing. Instead, she decided that it was best to be argumentative.

During the talk, she said that "Why are you being so aggressive towards me?", to which I told her I was not, I am only following the agreement we have in place. She did not like that.

Whatever.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I personally believe the parent who currently isn't the caregiver should get "first option" on covering for the caregiving parent.

For anything longer than 4 hours.

They are also free to decline.

With that being said.

I just went through something similar on Thursday.

She turned down a request to watch our son if daycare called again because of his flu.

Fridays, she doesn't work.

Told me she had plans she would rather not cancel.

Now, 2 weeks prior she called me and asked if I could pick up our daughter and drop her off at her fathers.

I don't work until the afternoon, she knew this and would prefer not to miss work.

Seeing how I was in the area, I agreed.

She cannot reciprocate these "favors", I will no longer be doing favors as well.

Unless of course the kids are in need of me personally.

Other then that, she can miss work and money to take care of our kids.

I ended up getting called Friday early afternoon about my daughter.

She got the flu and I had to miss more work.

8 hours this week alone.

If the shoe was on the other foot?

One can only imagine.


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It went great. Started at 10:00am and ended at 11:45 pm. It was a lot of fun. I had a meetup group on Friday. We all clicked pretty well, so I am hosting an event this Saturday at my house for them. That should be fun.
> 
> How are you doing lee?
> 
> ...



Sounds like she wants to control what's going on even though she can't. Glad ur meet up went well. I am getting in a better mood as the day goes on. I have to run out and get last minute stalking stuffers. H normally comes over on Sundays to see the girls do I call to see what time so I can run the errands , and he says he is not coming but did not bother to tell anyone like they are not waiting on him. I want to shield my girls but there is only so much I can shield them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> Sounds like she wants to control what's going on even though she can't. Glad ur meet up went well. I am getting in a better mood as the day goes on. I have to run out and get last minute stalking stuffers. H normally comes over on Sundays to see the girls do I call to see what time so I can run the errands , and he says he is not coming but did not bother to tell anyone like they are not waiting on him. I want to shield my girls but there is only so much I can shield them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She just doesn't like rules. They are only acceptable when they benefit her. Not if she needs to follow them. She has not had rules in our relationship until now.


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Reminds me of a spoiled rotten child...


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It went great. Started at 10:00am and ended at 11:45 pm. It was a lot of fun. I had a meetup group on Friday. We all clicked pretty well, so I am hosting an event this Saturday at my house for them. That should be fun.
> 
> How are you doing lee?
> 
> ...


I have a suggestion for you.

Treat her like the child she is and point out to her that if she had just called you and asked nicely if she could have your D for one more night that you would have been agreaable to her request.

but when she *****es and becomes argumentitive, all you want to do is hangup on her.

try it once to see if she gets it. Sorry your Ex is so immmature and selfish.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Reminds me of a spoiled rotten child...


Yeah. It reminds me of my exwife.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

"Why are you being so aggressive?"

"Why are you being mean to me (with tears in her eyes)?"

I've heard it all before. 

These ladies are actresses and follow the same script. They are the victims and we are horrible men to them. LOL. To them, us standing up for ourselves and settimg boundaries is us being mean. Bunch of babies is what they are!


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> "Why are you being so aggressive?"
> 
> "Why are you being mean to me (with tears in her eyes)?"
> 
> ...


Having some issues are we?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yep. They are crazy and would like to spread some of their craziness. This is the time of the year for Mrs. Script to act up. So far, so good. No complaints.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Yep. *They are crazy and would like to spread some of their craziness.* This is the time of the year for Mrs. Script to act up. So far, so good. No complaints.


I feel my response in your thread is relevant to this as well.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm not getting it, Up. You think having my mind made up about what she is and stuff is not helping. That's why you recommend dropping all labels. 

Answer this, honestly .... u think I'm not giving her a fair chance?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I'm not getting it, Up. You think having my mind made up about what she is and stuff is not helping. That's why you recommend dropping all labels.
> 
> Answer this, honestly .... u think I'm not giving her a fair chance?


I have to read your thread, but I do agree that dropping all labels is important. The second you affix a label to anything you pretty much determined exactly what it is in your mind and it can't be anything else.

So if I sit here and say my wife is a cheating b**** , that label is going to stick in my mind and it is exactly what I will think of her. It leaves no room for any other interpretation of who she is.

Look at it this way if I was to say someone is a *******, your mind will already made up, without knowing them, based upon what you think, positively or negatively, about ********.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I have been thinking about this since Up suggested it. I think is true. If I don't drop the labels of BPD, cheater, immature ... it's like a self fullfilling prophecy. That's how she'll act or I'll see it as that KWIM.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I have been thinking about this since Up suggested it. I think is true. If I don't drop the labels of BPD, cheater, immature ... it's like a self fullfilling prophecy. That's how she'll act or I'll see it as that KWIM.


Exactly. You will always see her in the light that you want to see her as. So if you say BPD, cheater, etc, thats all she will ever be. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yeah. A couple of weeks ago I was almost sure it was just a matter of time for me to leave her but now I'm thinking of making a last effort, drop the labels and judge her actions now without anything dragging from the past.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I'm not getting it, Up. You think having my mind made up about what she is and stuff is not helping. That's why you recommend dropping all labels.
> 
> Answer this, honestly .... u think I'm not giving her a fair chance?


I'm not saying she gets a 'free pass' from the past.

There are things to take into consideration from the past that apply to the future.

Insanity is not what anyone wants.

With that being said though.

When it comes to every day little things, it cannot be an over analyzed deal breaker.

At times, someone simply does something that you may not agree with.

It happens.

That's life.

It's how YOU deal with it that makes the difference.

To me, you are either hot or cold.

There is no middle ground.



Lifescript said:


> I have been thinking about this since Up suggested it. I think is true. If I don't drop the labels of BPD, cheater, immature ... it's like a self fullfilling prophecy. That's how she'll act or I'll see it as that KWIM.


She cheated on you.

That isn't a label.

That's reality.

It's up to you to be able to trust her if you wish to continue in the marriage.



Lifescript said:


> Yeah. A couple of weeks ago I was almost sure it was just a matter of time for me to leave her but now I'm thinking of making a last effort, drop the labels and judge her actions now without anything dragging from the past.


Script.

I have no doubt that this isn't easy.

When it comes to you and I, we took the different fork in the road.

That's okay.

She may never be who you want to BE WITH for the rest of your life.

None of this "she might never be what you want her to be".

Take away her "identity".

Strip her down to actions and values only.

Is that someone you want to be with?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I like this: Strip her down to actions and words. Is this someone I want to be with? She has been better recently and it's because Ive set boundaries and not acting so beta. 

Something that's on my mind is her wanting to have another baby. I have to talk to her and let her know clearly where I stand with that. But do it in a way that don't come across as mean or insensitive. Women are sensitive with this subject. 

Up, have a merry christmas brother. I appreciate your support, always. 

Hermes you too. Have a merry xmas.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She cheated on you.
> 
> That isn't a label.
> 
> ...


I guess we see a little different on this.

Labels are based on reality. Would it not be a label for me to call someone a communist? That's reality. Once I've made that association, I have defined who that person is in my mind based upon my feelings and thoughts towards communist.

Did she cheat on him? Yes. 

Is that reality? Yes. 

Will he need to be able to trust her again in order for the marriage to succeed? Yes. 

Does he need to associate a label with her actions? No.

To me he short changes his reconciliation by thinking of her in such black and white terms.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I like this: Strip her down to actions and words. Is this someone I want to be with? She has been better recently and it's because Ive set boundaries and not acting so beta.
> 
> Something that's on my mind is her wanting to have another baby. I have to talk to her and let her know clearly where I stand with that. But do it in a way that don't come across as mean or insensitive. Women are sensitive with this subject.
> 
> ...


Do YOU want another child?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I guess we see a little different on this.
> 
> Labels are based on reality. Would it not be a label for me to call someone a communist? That's reality. Once I've made that association, I have defined who that person is in my mind based upon my feelings and thoughts towards communist.
> 
> ...


Labeling her "once a cheater always a cheater" type of thing.

That to me, is what "cheater" means.

This is true for many cheaters.

To label her as such though.

What kind of mentality does that set for him going into reconciliation.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Labeling her "once a cheater always a cheater" type of thing.
> 
> That to me, is what "cheater" means.
> 
> ...


And statistically speaking that is what a cheater is.

And if he goes into reconciliation with that mindset, he will be constantly waiting for that next time that she does it.

And at that point what's the point of reconciliation?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes. With her? Not sure. Now? No.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Yes. With her? Not sure. Now? No.


So is she pressuring you for another baby now?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So is she pressuring you for another baby now?


Yes. She wants a baby girl. Talks about it all the time. Says she's already 30 and women can't wait too long. I know if we have another one it would be harder if we break up.,


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Yes. She wants a baby girl. Talks about it all the time. Says she's already 30 and women can't wait too long. I know if we have another one it would be harder if we break up.,


Everything in this quote is wrong.

Her.

You.

The entire damn thing.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

How so Up?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Isn't harder to end a marriage when more kids are involved especially little ones, 1-2 year olds? I think so.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> How so Up?





Lifescript said:


> Isn't harder to end a marriage when more kids are involved especially little ones, 1-2 year olds? I think so.





Lifescript said:


> Yes. She wants a baby girl. Talks about it all the time. Says she's already 30 and women can't wait too long. *I know if we have another one it would be harder if we break up.*,


The highlighted part is the my response to the first 2 quotes.

Would you have a kid with ANYONE thinking that way about the relationship?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I see your point and I admit it's kind of messed up but I have to protect myself.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I see your point and I admit it's kind of messed up but I have to protect myself.


I get that.

I really do.

What I'm concerned about is how you will handle it when it comes up.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Her talking of having another baby? 

I think is time I talk to her about it.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Her talking of having another baby?
> 
> I think is time I talk to her about it.


Good luck. And have a great holiday.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Merry Christmas, babydoll!!!

Hope you and A have a great day!!!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Merry Christmas, babydoll!!!
> 
> Hope you and A have a great day!!!


Thank you. I just sent you a message on facebook right before I saw this. Have a great day today. I can't wait to hear feedback from you on when you go try out your new toys.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So my daughter and I we're just going into the grocery store when she tells me that posOM has carried her into the grocery store with mommy. Of course I don't make a big deal of it to her.

Even though I know this is happening, having confirmation from my daughter that they (posom and my daughter)are spending time together upset me. 

I know that it shouldn't. I know that I can't control it and that they were bound to spend time together sooner or later.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Hermes, I'm dealing with the same crap that you are. It annoys me to no end. But you aren't replaceable; you will always be her Dad.
And when you meet a woman who deserves you - your ex will find out what it feels like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

I can see how that would be terribly upsetting, regardless of how indifferent you may be towards the ex.

Hugs to you, sweetie.

You're doing such a great job!


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Hermes, I'm dealing with the same crap that you are. It annoys me to no end. But you aren't replaceable; you will always be her Dad.
> And when you meet a woman who deserves you - your ex will find out what it feels like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks regroup. 

I know I am not replaceable. I came from a divorced fanoly and never accepted my stepfather as my dad. I am not worried about that. I just dont like it. Nothing more nothing less. 

And I dont care if she feels it. Her thoughts and feelings have not crossed my mind. I got upset because of my daughter.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks regroup.
> 
> I know I am not replaceable. I came from a divorced fanoly and never accepted my stepfather as my dad. I am not worried about that. I just dont like it. Nothing more nothing less.
> 
> And I dont care if she feels it. Her thoughts and feelings have not crossed my mind. I got upset because of my daughter.


I sent u a message
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Thanks regroup.
> 
> I know I am not replaceable. I came from a divorced fanoly and never accepted my stepfather as my dad. I am not worried about that. I just dont like it. Nothing more nothing less.
> 
> And I dont care if she feels it. Her thoughts and feelings have not crossed my mind. I got upset because of my daughter.


It does not matter why I got upset. I am using my daughter as an excuse. 

My daughter is not in harms way. He has not done anything to indicate any different. 

I should not be upset. I need to control that.

Something to talk about in therapy tomorrow.....


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It does not matter why I got upset. I am using my daughter as an excuse.
> 
> My daughter is not in harms way. He has not done anything to indicate any different.
> 
> ...


It is hard at that age I hope that either you or ex wife have talked to your daughter about other man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It does not matter why I got upset. I am using my daughter as an excuse.
> 
> My daughter is not in harms way. He has not done anything to indicate any different.
> 
> ...


Hermes

You are doing great. And it is upsetting because your wife has been out of the house less than 3 months.

Not only is it disrespectful to you but it definitely confuses your daughter.

And if your does not agree with you (she won't) then there is not a darn thing you can do.

And it keeps showing you just how far gone she really is since you caught her cheating.

So keep separating yourself from her as best you can. Love your Daughter as much as you can.

Treat your wife with indifference.

Get yourself to a better place in life.

HM64


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> You are doing great. And it is upsetting because your wife has been out of the house less than 3 months.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

if it's any consolation I just found out that my 5 year old crawls into bed with them when she. wakes up at night
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

This is an example of the kids handwritting for the tattoo....

I would love to have both of my girls write something for me (momma). I have one for my 7 year old just waiting on the 4 year old to get her handwritting alittle neater... Ha Ha


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> This is an example of the kids handwritting for the tattoo....
> 
> I would love to have both of my girls write something for me (momma). I have one for my 7 year old just waiting on the 4 year old to get her handwritting alittle neater... Ha Ha


I love it.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Me to feel in love when I saw it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

What have you been up to?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

This .. I like.

Although.

I think it would mean a lot more if it was done randomly by my children.

So, if this ever does happen.

Maybe I'll do it.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> This .. I like.
> 
> Although.
> 
> ...


This was just and example, I found on the internet.

My daughter wrote me a note this year from school and it said 
I love you momma and it was in her handwritting and this is what I thought about doing...


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> What have you been up to?


Same old same old. Busy with work.

I got a call this morning from my BIL. He got into a huge fight with my ex wife last night, and she effectively told him that she cutting him off from her life, as well. 

He told her how he felt about how she is acting. How he does not think that it is wise to be bringing the new guy around her daughter. How she knows nothing about this guy and she flipped and told him that she would rather not be around him, her parents or anyone else that thinks she is being a bad mom.


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Same old same old. Busy with work.
> 
> I got a call this morning from my BIL. He got into a huge fight with my ex wife last night, and she effectively told him that she cutting him off from her life, as well.
> 
> He told her how he felt about how she is acting. How he does not think that it is wise to be bringing the new guy around her daughter. How she knows nothing about this guy and she flipped and told him that she would rather not be around him, her parents or anyone else that thinks she is being a bad mom.


She is going to hit rock bottom and no one to help will be there to support her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

tdwal said:


> Isn't she currently living with her brother? How do you cut someone off that you live with?


Good question. She is only living with him until February. Their lease is up. They were moving into a new place together, but he stopped payment on the deposit check. She is going to have to figure it out now.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> She is going to hit rock bottom and no one to help will be there to support her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah. Not my problem. I will be there for my daughter and that is it.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She enjoys shovels.

And digging.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She enjoys shovels.
> 
> And digging.


This made me chuckle. Thanks. 

And it is true.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

First off, Happy New Year to everyone!

I hung out for a few hours with the BIL and SIL. As said above my exwife cut them off, so they did not want to be home, so we went and had a drink. They asked me if they could tell me some things about the exwife and the posOM, since wanted to get things off their chest. 

I said sure. It makes no difference to me, so whatever.

I am posting this just to keep everyone up to date on what is going on. soon i will remove this thread, as I feel I am getting to the point where I dont need to have it, but for now, I will post when these things occur.

Here are some of the things they told me:

1. posOM is an alcoholic
2. posOM is a wimp, sissy, etc. My SIL says she is a bigger man than him
3. exwife says that the posOM is dumb as rocks. the BIL and SIL agree with it. he could not figure out how to say ladies and gentlemen.....
4. exwife has tried 2 times to breakup with him, but hasn't for whatever reason. Co-dependence, i assume. Or realizing i am not waiting for her. whatever the reason, not my problem.
5. exife is oblivious to things around her. she almost caught the house on fire by leaving for hours with a candle burning in her room. when confronted she said "meh thats what the insurance is for". mind you, the insurance she talks about is renters content insurance, not hazard and liability. 
6. posOM works a dead end sales job. 
7. posOM is a nice guy. BIL and SIL constantly catch him doing the dishes, cleaning the house, taking out the trash, sitting watching ABC family girl movies with her, etc. He does not stand up to her, just as I didn't. 

None of the above matter in the slightest to anything. I know that. I am not looking for validation that I am a better man than he is. 

There is more, but I am recovering from last night, so dont want to type too much more.

I feel good today. None of these got to me. none made me angry. none made me wonder why....

it did make me smile to hear some of these things, though. So, not complete indifference. I dont want her to suffer. I dont wish ill on her. But the fact that she is dating the same guy as I was and not realizing it, just makes me smile. Hopefully, for her sake, she will wake up and start fixing herself. 

Have a great day everyone.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

History has a way of repeating itself. 

Never erase the truth. It might help someone else in the future as well as serve to remind you to never take crap from her ever again.

Your BIL is awesome.

I hope your 2013 is awesome because your ex's will not be.
That is clearly evident.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Going to the tattoo shop now to finish my sleeve. So excited!


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, 2 nights ago I found out the posOM has been sleeping over while my daughter is there. I am not bothered by it, because I expected this. My daughter is fine (she is 4). She is not hurt or in trouble, from what i can tell, at least. 

Do I confront her and calmly tell her that I am not OK with this. I know she will do it anyway, so it will be just wasted breath. 

My thought (and someone please help on this) is that I should put it in an email, so I have evidence to present to court IF things get worse. I can show proof that I addressed my concerns and she ignored them.

Does that even matter?

Thanks!


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I would address it but not rude about it just express your concern. That way you have it for court just in case
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't think it does children any good to have an OM or OW in the picture so soon. 

Address it. But be very unemotional about it. It should come across that you are only looking out for your daughter's well being, nothing more. 

How did you find out?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I don't think it does children any good to have an OM or OW in the picture so soon.
> 
> Address it. But be very unemotional about it. It should come across that you are only looking out for your daughter's well being, nothing more.
> 
> How did you find out?


That was the plan.

I found out from my daughter and brother in law. He told me the guys car was there at 3:00 am the other day while my daughter was there and was gone by 7:00 am in the morning. So he left before my BIL woke up.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok. And it does matter. You have a say in everything that happens in your kid's life. If she had a head on her shoulder, she would not let him sleep over.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Give me your opinion:

M,

It has been brought to my attention that S has been spending a huge amount of time with our daughter. A has made mention of it on multiple occassions. I have not asked her for this information, she has supplied it to me. She brought it up again at C birthday party. 

First and foremost, I am, in no way, judging you or otherwise insulting your ability as a parent. My opinion on that is inconsequential. 

As I am sure you already know, I am not OK with S spending time with our daughter. He is not her father and as such, has no reason to spend any time with her. Any time that he spends with her is only to fulfill your personal needs. It, in no way, benefits A to have him around. 

I have never met S. All I know about him is what I have found in public records, which paints a poor picture of him. I am not a saint, so I will not say he is a bad person because of his mistakes, but that does not mean I need to be OK with his involvement with our daughter. 

I don’t know how long you have been dating and I don’t care. I do not think that you know him well enough to have him brought into our daughters life. 

Obviously, you are an adult and you can make these decisions on your own. I will not interfere with them. If you feel this is acceptable behaviour, then that is fine. I am not OK with it and I have not introduced A to my girlfriend and will not for quite some time, but you are free to make your own choices.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

removed


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Give me your opinion:
> 
> M,
> 
> ...


I would make it shorter. 

I would take out the part where you say you have not asked her about it. When people say that, I take it as admission of guilt. I know you didn't ask her but people can look at it that way. 

Also I think you can take out the part about you not judging her. Say you are not ok with S spending time with OM. What you have found out about him paints a poor picture. 

Stress that kids need to have time to process things before they are introduced to 3rd parties. 

That you want to put all differences aside to work together for the best interest of S. 

That's my 2 cents.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I would make it shorter.
> 
> I would take out the part where you say you have not asked her about it. When people say that, I take it as admission of guilt. I know you didn't ask her but people can look at it that way.
> 
> ...


I made it shorter. I sent it a few hours ago. 

Thanks.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

You're welcome.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I emailed her this:



> M,
> 
> First off I want to preface this letter by stating that in no way do I care about your personal relationship with S. I know that you are dating and I know that you are serious and in no way does your one on one relationship with him effect what I am about to say. I simply do not care any longer about what you do when you are without our daughter. So do not make assumptions while reading my email. Read it as the person I co-parent with, not my ex wife or friend.
> 
> ...


Her response:



> I will just keep them separate.
> 
> Thanks.


HA!


----------



## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds like she's pissed if you ask me. Short answer followed by 'thanks'.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Sounds like she's pissed if you ask me. Short answer followed by 'thanks'.


I agree, but.......

Dont care.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me1qkwdgzq1rt93y0o1_500.gif


----------



## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> I agree, but.......
> 
> Dont care.
> 
> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me1qkwdgzq1rt93y0o1_500.gif


LOL. Or the Honey Badger. The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall) - YouTube

You know she probably typed up a few emails before finally deleting all the content and sending those two lines. That's pure gold!


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

LOL.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> LOL. Or the Honey Badger. The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall) - YouTube
> 
> You know she probably typed up a few emails before finally deleting all the content and sending those two lines. That's pure gold!


probably. I am not stupid to think this will change anything. All it accomplished was it was in writing that I am not OK with and she responded. I will send that to my attorney to see what he can do with it.


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

You never mentioned you got yourself a new girlfriend... good for you!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> You never mentioned you got yourself a new girlfriend... good for you!!! :smthumbup:


Yeah. I have been seeing someone for a couple weeks now. Nothing serious. We are both taking it VERY slow. This forum (and now my exwife) are the only people to know about it. I have not posted it on facebook, etc.


----------



## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Yeah. I have been seeing someone for a couple weeks now. Nothing serious. We are both taking it VERY slow. This forum (and now my exwife) are the only people to know about it. I have not posted it on facebook, etc.


She have a sister?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Good afternoon TAM'ers.

It has been a few weeks since an update. 

Nothing much has changed. I am still doing my self improvement. Reading, going to therapy, etc. So far so good. I feel better every day. 

So.....lets get on to the new stuff, shall we

So, the stbxw has sent friend requests to girls on my facebook. These are people she has never met. None of them have accepted her. They have told me about it. Mind you, this is right after she was informed that I was in a relationship.

The stbxw has been very nice to me lately. I cant describe it. I get a bad feeling from it. 

Last night, when I went to the inlaws house to get my daughter, the father comes out and says hello to me. He came out specifically to say hello and goodbye to me. Weird. This is the man that stated that I ruined his daughters life, that he hates me, blah blah blah.

I have a feeling they are up to something. 

We will see.


----------



## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Wonder what's going on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> Wonder what's going on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


meh. We will see. Just continue as I have been


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Good afternoon TAM'ers.
> 
> It has been a few weeks since an update.
> 
> ...


Why does she have access to your facebook account?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Jkw4338 said:


> Why does she have access to your facebook account?


She doesnt. She has access, as does anyone, to my friends list though.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> She doesnt. She has access, as does anyone, to my friends list though.


I see


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Facebook is the anti-Christ.

Especially where relationships are concerned.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Facebook is the anti-Christ.
> 
> Especially where relationships are concerned.


Fakebook.

What better place to present the true "you".

;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

spun said:


> Fakebook.
> 
> What better place to present the true "you".
> 
> ...


You mean everyone's lives really aren't perfect?!


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Hermes said:


> She doesnt. She has access, as does anyone, to my friends list though.


is that true even if you ban them? or can you no longer put them on kill status or whatever the Super Sized option is on FB?


----------



## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

good. i thought i heard the last privacy update talking about not being able to be invisible on FB anymore. with the assumption being that most of the world is on it.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



UpnOver said:


> Nope.
> 
> He can block her.
> 
> ...


I did not know you could do that but i dont care enough to do it.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Good afternoon TAM'ers.
> 
> It has been a few weeks since an update.
> 
> ...


Maybe your FIL is beginning to see that his daughter is nuts!


----------



## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Hold on - is she still with that loser guy or did they break up? I forget... refresh my mind, please!

I'd say she's def realizing that the grass is covered in cow sh!t on her side of the fence, too. That and it's probably killing her not knowing what you're up to cause if I know you then you're totally not laying it out there for her - nor should you as it's none of her damn business!

And her friending random chicks on your FB... that's just creepy...

IDK, her and her father sound pretty much bat sh!t crazy to me... keep us informed thou as to their shenanigans...


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Hold on - is she still with that loser guy or did they break up? I forget... refresh my mind, please!
> 
> I'd say she's def realizing that the grass is covered in cow sh!t on her side of the fence, too. That and it's probably killing her not knowing what you're up to cause if I know you then you're totally not laying it out there for her - nor should you as it's none of her damn business!
> 
> ...


Hey EE! From my understanding, they are still together. I do know that after the email I sent a few weeks ago, the guy has not been at the house while our daughter is there. She has tried to break up with him on 2 occasions, but her (or his) codependency has stopped it. I dont think she wants to be alone. I also think that them separating would force her to deal with our divorce, which is something she does not want to do. Sooner or later she will have to face the music, though.

Well, she will be enjoying her **** covered grass then. Not my problem. She knows nothing about what I am doing. I am sure she checks my instagram and facebook. I know that up until last week she was friends with my sister (who i spend a lot of time with) on facebook, until my sister removed her. I know she still follows my sister on Instagram. She admitted to me that she checks my sisters instagram, so I am sure she is seeing who I am hanging out with and what I am doing. I am not telling her anything though. If she wants to cyber stalk me, that is her business. I am sure that it is bothering her that I am dating someone. I am sure she expected me to sit around and pine over her. Little did she know I had this site to push me in the right direction. 

I am sure if your profile said somewhere close to me, should have befriended you too! Its funny, honestly. I think she is just jealous. Meh.

Honestly, if that is the case, then pull up your big girl undies and say something to me. 

The icing on the cake is that she is still dragging her feet on signing the Marriage Settlement Agreement. I gave it to her back in late October. She still has not signed it. I texted her last night to call me when she has a chance to talk. She called me and was super chipper and happy. I asked her what was going on with the MSA and her mood instantly changed. She said she will have it signed this week. We will see if she signs it.

I will update once I know more.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

It usually ends up like this. WW realize the grass is not as fertile as they thought and they come back wanting another chance. I see a river of tears coming your way. She'll want you back.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> It usually ends up like this. WW realize the grass is not as fertile as they thought and they come back wanting another chance. I see a river of tears coming your way. She'll want you back.


I see it too. That doesn't change how I feel about her or the situation.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Well, I'll quote you: "meh" 

Good job on detaching Hermes. Is your little one doing ok? Sadly, mine will have to see me and his mom separate again.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Lifescript said:


> Well, I'll quote you: "meh"
> 
> Good job on detaching Hermes. Is your little one doing ok? Sadly, mine will have to see me and his mom separate again.


I am sorry to hear that script. I have to go catch up on your thread. I took 2 weeks off tam.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

It is what it is. I actually deleted the old thread. Started a new one today in the pvt section.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So I just found out the other man died this week. Apparently, my ex broke up with him last week. He begged for her back and she said no and ignored him and he died on Thursday. I don't know how. She did say that he was killing himself the whole time she did not answer the phone. I assume he overdosed. 

I called her just now to offer my support and sympathy. I told her that I am here to talk if she needs it. I truly feel bad for her. I hated him, but never wished him harm. I never wanted her to suffer through this. 

Any help on how I should approach this, would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

When you were suffering did your wife ever reach out to you?

Did the OM reach out to you when your wife was cheating on you with him?

It was nice of you to reach out to her and offered her comfort.

But in my opinion you are being too nice.

Just be careful.

HM64


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> So I just found out the other man died this week. Apparently, my ex broke up with him last week. He begged for her back and she said no and ignored him and he died on Thursday. I don't know how. She did say that he was killing himself the whole time she did not answer the phone. I assume he overdosed.
> 
> I called her just now to offer my support and sympathy. I told her that I am here to talk if she needs it. I truly feel bad for her. I hated him, but never wished him harm. I never wanted her to suffer through this.
> 
> Any help on how I should approach this, would be greatly appreciated.


Oh my, that's really sad. If it were me I would go find her and help her deal with it. I don't mean go try to get her back but she is the mother of your child and has alienated everybody close to her. She will need help.

And HM64 it's not about being nice, it's about being a decent human being.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Hermes
> 
> When you were suffering did your wife ever reach out to you?
> 
> ...


Ok you said it now go cold again a no reply would have been better but it happened now refocus.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

It is not about winning her back. I dont want that. This does not change that. It is about helping soneone that I cared for through a dark time. Was she there for me when I was in misery? No. Was the om? No. I get that. I am better than that. will i take her back? No. Will I offer my support to help her fix herself and heal? Of course. 

I will be careful and not get sucked into the chaos. But I wont just sir around and not try to help. She can accept it or decline it. I only offered.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> It is not about winning her back. I dont want that. This does not change that. It is about helping soneone that I cared for through a dark time. Was she there for me when I was in misery? No. Was the om? No. I get that. I am better than that. will i take her back? No. Will I offer my support to help her fix herself and heal? Of course.
> 
> I will be careful and not get sucked into the chaos. But I wont just sir around and not try to help. She can accept it or decline it. I only offered.


You are better than that. Do not let her betrayal destroy your compassion for the pain of others. You owe it to your daughter to not turn your back on her mother.


----------



## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

You should have left her alone. She doesn't need or deserve such sympathy.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermes.

She is the mother of your daughter.

To which you can give her the sympathy in your voice.

The compassion of understanding that it's a hard time for her.

Other than that.

You owe her nothing.

She will go through many hardships in her life.

She walked away from you being there for her.

What you owe is to your daughter.

All that entails is not pointing and saying "look at your sh!tty life" whenever your ex is down.

That's about it.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



UpnOver said:


> Hermes.
> 
> She is the mother of your daughter.
> 
> ...


Up. That is all I will give her. Nothing more. Nothing less. 

Thanks.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> Up. That is all I will give her. Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> Thanks.


It's not about what you're willing to give.

It's about the weight she could possibly place on you.

You have no idea yet how this will impact your ex and her relationship with your daughter.

Observing that factor while trying to stay grounded if she reacts very poorly will be hard enough.

Lending an ear is one thing.

Thinking your words and 'advice' will not be misunderstood, redirected and turned on you is where you must be careful.

There is no nobility required here.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> It's not about what you're willing to give.
> 
> It's about the weight she could possibly place on you.
> 
> ...


Hermes you do not need to be giving advice, you need to make sure that she seeks professional help.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Jkw4338 said:


> Hermes you do not need to be giving advice, you need to make sure that she seeks professional help.


jkw,

That is what I am doing. I can not control if she goes or not. All i can do is try to help her in any way I can. At the end of the day, this will only end up effecting my daughter. I will do what i can to help the mom out. All i am going to do is lend an ear, if she wants to take it. I offered. I will not beg her to talk to me about it. I opened the door for her to talk about it with me. If she wants to walk through it, that is her decision. I am not here to give her advice or guidance. My advice and guidance will be to go see a therapist.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Is your wife ok?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Jkw4338 said:


> Is your wife ok?


No idea. She has not tried to talk to me. I will not chase her to talk. The few times I have seen her since the incident she has been normal just like nothing has happened. Everyone grieves differently. If she wants to talk she knows where I am.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Hermes said:


> No idea. She has not tried to talk to me. I will not chase her to talk. The few times I have seen her since the incident she has been normal just like nothing has happened. Everyone grieves differently. If she wants to talk she knows where I am.


Well it seems she didn't go off the deep end. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Jkw4338 said:


> Well it seems she didn't go off the deep end. Thanks for the update.


She seems to be stable right now. Again, I have no idea how she is doing or coping with this. Until she asks to talk it is not my concern. I am observing her now for any sign of issues, so I can protect my daughter. Thankfully, she is living with her parents, so they are always around with my little one. 

I am still waiting for the signed MSA (4 months later). She has made multiple promises to get it signed and has yet to follow through. I was told yesterday that she will have it this week. Once I get it, I will immediately file for divorce.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She still cavorting with posOM?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

He killed himself because she broke up with him. 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> He killed himself because she broke up with him. 2 weeks ago.


For real?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Conrad said:


> For real?


Yeah. I posted about it above.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Yeah. I posted about it above.


I'm just catching up. What jarring news.

I can tell you it isn't the first time I've heard such a thing. Another poster from this forum exposed the affair, posOM's wife filed immediately and his kids refused to speak to him.

He swallowed a revolver.

When people ask him whether his wife is fantasizing about getting back with posOM, he merely says, "It isn't going to happen."

Infidelity is playing with fire.

So many people get hurt - and for what?

It gives us quite a bit to talk about, but it's serious emotionally draining stuff.

I'm glad to hear you are well.

Hang in there.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Conrad said:


> I'm just catching up. What jarring news.
> 
> I can tell you it isn't the first time I've heard such a thing. Another poster from this forum exposed the affair, posOM's wife filed immediately and his kids refused to speak to him.
> 
> ...


Thanks conrad. I wont lie and say I am not worried about her. But I know that I cant do anything about it. I offered her my ear to talk and she has refused it. Nothing more I can do.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> Thanks conrad. I wont lie and say I am not worried about her. But I know that I cant do anything about it. I offered her my ear to talk and she has refused it. Nothing more I can do.


You have every right to be worried about her she's the mother of your daughter.

Sometimes though all we can do is observe while moving on in life.

It was really beyond the call for offering an ear as is.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> Thanks conrad. I wont lie and say I am not worried about her. But I know that I cant do anything about it. I offered her my ear to talk and she has refused it. Nothing more I can do.


She's likely shouldering plenty of guilt - along with a major-league case of embarrassment.

Sucks to be her.


----------



## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

How's your princess, Hermes?


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> Thanks conrad. I wont lie and say I am not worried about her. But I know that I cant do anything about it. I offered her my ear to talk and she has refused it. Nothing more I can do.


By letting her know you are available if she needs to talk, you are showing compassion, leadership. 

By not asking her about it, not rescuing, you are allowing her to face the consequences of her actions which she desperately needs.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, I finally got the Marriage Settlement Ageeement signed. She delivered them to me last week. So, this week I will file for divorce and have her served.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Glad to see things are moving along Hermes.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes,

How are things?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Hermes,
> 
> How are things?


Hey Script. Sorry for the late response. I have been busy opening up some new businesses and have barely had time for anything. 

Things are going well. A few updates. The exwife and I are on better talking terms now for coparenting. We met 2 weeks ago and hashed out a lot of issues we had. Here is an overview of the conversation:

- We discussed normal parenting issues like schooling, extracurricular activities, etc. Everything was agreed on amicably.

- After the last few therapy sessions, I started to realize some issues that I caused in the relationship. I have been so upset with the ex for how she broke things off. The lying, manipulation, sneaking around, etc. What I realized is I did the same things to her for years (not the sneaking around). I lied, manipulated, etc to her for years during the marriage. She was bitter and upset about it. I realized how could i possibly blame her and be upset with what she did, when i did the same thing. So, when we met, I apologized for my actions. I told her that I am sorry for the years of lying, the years of being a pos husband. It felt good to get it out in the open.

- She apologized for how she broke things off. She told me that she regrets how she seperated from me. She does not regret the separation, but how she conducted herself.

- She told me she misses me and still loves me very much.

- She told me how the OM passed away. He drank himself to death in his car in front of the gym. She told me that she feels guilty about it, but she felt that she was in an abusive relationship with him.

- I told her how upset I was that she had this obviously unstable person around our daughter. She agreed and said that she was not thinking and did not know the level of his issues.

- I told her how I was upset with her that she allowed him to sleep in the same bed as our daughter. She swore that he never slept over with her. It doesn't matter if she is being truthful, as it is already done. If she feels that she still needs to lie about that to me, then that is her issue.

- We are going to get together on Wednesday with our daughter to allow mid week visitation. I think this will help our daughter by allowing her to see the other parent mid week and also potentially help us in better communication for our daughters sake.

During the conversation we laughed and joked, even about the separation. She asked me to hold off on the divorce until May, so she can help pay for it. I told her I would pay for it and she can reimburse me. She has not responded to that yet. We walked back to the car and she asked for a hug. 

I feel like we are in a better place. I have forgiven her for what she has done. I feel like this will help us become better co-parents for our daughter. There is no talk of reconciliation or anything of that nature. 

Talk to you all soon.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Would you be open to it if she brought it up?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hermie.

Glad to hear you are doing well and you were able to get things off your chest without a massive setback. All steps in the right direction, best of luck to you.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Conrad said:


> Would you be open to it if she brought it up?


I would be in the future. We both have a lot to work on individually first.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Bravo! 

We were talking about apologizing, owning up to our mistakes in Zillard's thread. 

You feel better now, don't you? Whether reconciliation is possible in the future or not the best thing you guys can do is forgive each other for the hurt caused and be amicable towards each other. Seems like you are making good progress. Wish you luck on the personal stuff and also the new businesses.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Job owing up to your issues and I am glad she owned up to her crap too.

The key is being good coparents Hermes and I am happy that you both see that as well.


Focus on you. Fix your issues.

That will ensure a happier, healthier future for not only you but your family as well.

You are on the right path.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, last week the stbxw asked me to delay the divorce until May. I told her I would think about it. I sent her an email this morning stating:

Hey. 

I wanted to discuss the divorce documents with you.

You requested that we hold off until May to file. I am a little confused on this request. I assume it is for monetary reasons. Regardless of the reason, I would prefer to start the process now. I will cover the cost for now and you can reimburse me your portion, or I will just pay for the divorce if you can’t assist. We can still go meet at the courthouse, if you prefer, or I can have them serve you at home. I will not reference your office address on the documents, so they do not serve you there. Your father would have to be home and they can have him served the documents. 

Let me know how you want to proceed and I will move forward on it this week.

Thanks.

To which she replied:

Hi M.

It was for monetary reasons that I wanted to delay- L’s wedding is tapping me, between dresses, alterations, gifts, lunches, bridesmaid outtings, hotel rooms, etc. I don’t want you to have to take on that financial burden on your own, so I will definitely reimburse you come May.

And you have no idea how sincerely sorry I am for not having it in me to reconcile..I feel tremendous guilt and regret about giving up on 9 years with you and a family. I know outwardly it may not seem that way, (I keep busy), but I absolutely do battle with that on a daily basis. 

I can go to the courthouse on April 15th, but if that is not soon enough for you, my father is always home to receive the documents. Would we need an appointment for the courthouse?

-M


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brother,

It's the mutual attraction thing.

I just wish women married for the same reasons we do.

Would make life easier.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Conrad said:


> Brother,
> 
> It's the mutual attraction thing.
> 
> ...


You and me both. Ugh.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> And you have no idea how sincerely sorry I am for not having it in me to reconcile..I feel tremendous guilt and regret about giving up on 9 years with you and a family. I know outwardly it may not seem that way, (I keep busy), but I absolutely do battle with that on a daily basis.


Just for the guilt alone I would have her served at work.

I know you won't. I understand why.

Pay for the Divorce and let her pay you back.

And go find happiness with someone else. Because you never will with her....

She's just toooooo busy..........

HM64


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Just for the guilt alone I would have her served at work.
> 
> I know you won't. I understand why.
> 
> ...


That cracked me up HM. Thanks. Yeah, i wont serve her at work. i dont need the drama. I dont care if she pays me back. I just want it done.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> That cracked me up HM. Thanks. Yeah, i wont serve her at work. i dont need the drama. I dont care if she pays me back. I just want it done.


You're graduating.

I'll miss you.

Truly. You're a good man.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks conrad. I still have a lot of stuff to improve, so I wont be going anywhere anytime soon.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> Thanks conrad. I still have a lot of stuff to improve, so I wont be going anywhere anytime soon.


Hey Hermes, 

Long time since your last post. Hope things are going well. 

Update us when you have a chance.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

hey script. It has been a while since I have posted. I have been reading on everyone elses threads, but have not desired to post anything. 

I am doing well. The divorce is moving forward. 3 weeks or so and it will be finalized. Things have gotten better communication wise between us. As weird as it sounds, we actually are communicating better now than when we were together. I attribute it to me actually having an opinion and not just giving into what she wants all the time. It is a good feeling. 

As for her personal crap. Still the same. She complains to me about being broke all the time, even though she lives with her parents. She called me the other day to talk about her potentially getting a second job, which would require me to have our daughter more, (which, I of course agreed to). During the same conversation, she started to complain to me about how her father treats her like a child and micromanages her. I listened to her complaints for a minute then moved the subject back to our daughter and got off the phone. She wants to still confide in me and I am not OK with that. 

She knows that I am seeing someone, as well. 

All in all, I am just moving along. Same as before. Just trying to keep improving. 

Thanks for asking, script.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> hey script. It has been a while since I have posted. I have been reading on everyone elses threads, but have not desired to post anything.
> 
> I am doing well. The divorce is moving forward. 3 weeks or so and it will be finalized. Things have gotten better communication wise between us. As weird as it sounds, we actually are communicating better now than when we were together. I attribute it to me actually having an opinion and not just giving into what she wants all the time. It is a good feeling.
> 
> ...


Feels like we ought to chip in for a cap-n-gown.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Good to hear things are moving in the right direction Hermes. I know what you mean in regards to better communication now, my situation is the same. We are able to discuss things in regards to the kids and even compromise with each other. She's shown appreciation through her actions and not just words.

Although, she keeps her personal problems to herself and I do the same. Better off that way.


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> hey script. It has been a while since I have posted. I have been reading on everyone elses threads, but have not desired to post anything.
> 
> I am doing well. The divorce is moving forward. 3 weeks or so and it will be finalized. Things have gotten better communication wise between us. As weird as it sounds, we actually are communicating better now than when we were together. I attribute it to me actually having an opinion and not just giving into what she wants all the time. It is a good feeling.
> 
> ...


Great to hear that Hermes. 

I suspect it goes like that for many couples after the dust settles and one or both move on, reach indifference. 

Good luck with your new girl.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Feels like we ought to chip in for a cap-n-gown.


Not so fast. I will admit I have gotten better at handling the ex. However, I still have some way to go to get better with other issues. I can already tell some codependency issues appearing with the new girl. I guess the silver lining here is that I can tell that it is happening and can adjust my actions accordingly. I thought that I was doing fine so I stopped attending my meetings. In all honesty, I felt the meetings were not helping much. I can definitely tell a huge difference in my relationships, but I could still improve. So, no cap and gown just yet. 



06Daddio08 said:


> Good to hear things are moving in the right direction Hermes. I know what you mean in regards to better communication now, my situation is the same. We are able to discuss things in regards to the kids and even compromise with each other. She's shown appreciation through her actions and not just words.
> 
> Although, she keeps her personal problems to herself and I do the same. Better off that way.


Yeah. That is what i want. Her to keep her issues to herself and likewise, my issues will stay with me. I wont lie, I was tempted to listen to her complain and use me as a soundboard (or for comfort, etc), but now I know that it is not healthy for myself, her or our daughter to allow that behavior. 

As for the communication, it does seem that we can communicate better now. There seems to be no more anger on either of our parts and it just feels "normal" (no other way for me to say it). We do compromise with each other more now. For instance, she started going back to school which required me to change our schedule for custody. Of course, I agreed to change it to help out. I think she was surprised that I was accommodating.



Lifescript said:


> Great to hear that Hermes.
> 
> I suspect it goes like that for many couples after the dust settles and one or both move on, reach indifference.
> 
> Good luck with your new girl.


I agree. I have gotten to the point where i realize we both have done wrong and harmed each other. I feel like that thought of her wronging me was what held me back from being open and honest with her. I am not sure if that makes sense. 

I will post a longer update with all the details of what has been going on with me later today or tomorrow.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey everyone. I am finally able to be back on the forum regularly. I have been knee deep with state regulatory bodies on these new companies and have not had a chance to breathe, let alone post. 

A little update:

Its been a while since I have updated so this may be long. Bear with me. 

As of now, the divorce is not finalized. We are both working towards getting it done, but the courts are so back logged here that it is taking time. We are not arguing over any details of the divorce. We both just want it done. 

We are both dating new people. She has not mentioned anything more about the suicide of the previous suitor (whom she left me for). In fact, she has erased some references to him from her social media accounts (according to my sister in law, who is friends with her on Facebook). I will update about the new girl below. 

Our communication has been good lately. We email, text and call each other if we need to discuss something. The other day, we had a 30 minute phone call that was about nothing important, just kind of an update to how each of us are doing. She obviously still cares about me and I care about her. It was nice to be able to have a conversation with her about things other than our daughter and it remain civil. 

Last week, we had an agreement that we would meet sat morning to do tax related items. We agreed (at least this is what i remember, since we agreed verbally on our phone call) that we would meet at 10 am and after taxes, she would take our daughter, since she was getting her at 5 that night, there was no point in meeting 2 times (we live 30 miles apart). She called at 9:30 and cancelled the tax meeting. This has been cancelled by her numerous times. I texted her asking what time I should bring our daughter to her and she had no recollection of the agreement. typical. So, we both start arguing over text about it. I tell her that I made plans and had to cancel them because of this and that I am not ok with it. Things got a little heated and we stopped texting. I agreed to keep our daughter for the day. About 2 hours later she calls me. I answer and she immediately apologizes for it. Hell officially froze over right then. Honestly, I am still surprised. She has never really apologized for something like that. We talked for a few minutes and she explained that she does not want to have tension between us and agreed that she does not want to go back to how we were when we first separated. She mentioned it was nice being able to talk to me like a normal person. We ended the call on good terms. 

As for the new girl. We originally met back in December at a mutual friends house. We said hello, nothing more. I was still devastated by the separation at that time, so I was not even thinking of a relationship with anyone. We saw each other again on St Patty's day at that same friends house. We started talking via Facebook and text. We finally went out on our first date in April. Things are going well with her. It is obvious she likes me a lot. I have met her friends and 1 of her sisters. She has met my friends and my older sister (who I am very close), but to be fair, she actually knew her before she knew me..

I have a few issues that I told her yesterday we need to talk about, though. 

- She has an issue that I am still "technically" married. I don't see the problem, honestly. To me it is just a piece of paper at this point. She will use this excuse to not talk about things that I think need to be discussed. For instance, we have not actually had a discussion about a commited relationship. We have discussed that we are exclusive, in the sense that we are not sleeping with anyone else, but there is no girlfriend / boyfriend labeling. Which I am fine with, but I want to know I am not wasting my time here.

- She is very religious. I, as some of you know, am an atheist. I don't bash or belittle someones religious beliefs. I do enjoy discussing them intellectually. I have never called someone stupid for believing in any religion, especially someone I care for. The other night, while driving to dinner, we got on the subject of my posts on Facebook. Some of you that are friends with me on Facebook will know I share some articles about religion. Mainly articles about news that I think everyone should know about or that I feel should be shared. For instance, I shared an article 2 weeks ago about the Catholic bishop who hid millions of dollars to prevent it from going to rape victims. I did not insult the church. Just shared. Anyway, I was told by her on the drive that she has since blocked me from her news feed because I share the opinions of stupid people and help perpetuate stupid peoples beliefs. Wow. This pissed me off to no end. I told her right there how unacceptable that was and told her we would talk about it, as I am not OK with that behavior. 

- She is very reserved, quiet and easily offended. I am crass, blunt and extroverted. I know I can not change her. I get that. I need to find a common middle ground where my sense of humor is not insulting to her. 

So, that is it so far. Thanks for reading.

- I need to set boundaries with her on certain things.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes,

Still talking too much:

When she starts laying into you about posting this or that article, you respond with:

"I don't like where this conversation is heading"

Then you go silent.

As for being blocked on newsfeed?

Who cares?

Likely less trouble for you anyway.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Hermes,
> 
> Still talking too much:
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. I did not care about her blocking me. I was upset that I was called stupid for my beliefs (or lack thereof). I am not OK with being talked to in that way, considering I do not do it to others. 

But you are absolutely right.

Thanks Conrad. Glad to see you all again.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Hermes,

Sounds positive and good. I'm glad for you. 

Proceed with caution with the new girl. From the outside looking in I see some red flags mainly compatibility issues but is not something that can't be worked out. Remember be you and you can't change her. 

Good luck with everything. BTW, although I believe in God and go to church I disagree with a lot of stuff that goes on. Tell me how the father in my church drives a BMW and was at some point, not sure if he still is, involved and recruiting people to join him in an exciting business venture: Amway! 

LOL. I couldn't believe it when I heard it.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Good to hear the divorce is going smoothly, minus the courts being backed up. As for the new girl, have fun while it lasts, at times that's all we can ask for!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

You and your GF do have a common interest.

You could both spend the rest of your lives trying to convert each other.

It could be fun! 

Get the D done.

And nice to see your STBXW is getting some of her "nice" back when it comes to you.

HM


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

hey everyone. been a long time since I posted. I needed a break from TAM for a little to focus on personal stuff. Glad to be back.

So, where were we when I left off? 

The ex and I are getting along fine now. No real issues. She has pulled a few things recently that made me stand my ground with her, which is something I never did before. The divorce is scheduled for the end of January. I am continuing to work on myself. Training now for an Ironman next year. All in all, things are going well. Hope to hear from you all soon. Happy Holidays my TAM friends.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Good to hear the personal and co-parenting is going well.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hermes

Congratulations.

You have come a long way in one year.

I hope you feel the same way too.

HM


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I definitely still slip up. I still have days that I miss her. I still know I am not ready for a serious relationship, since I am not emotionally available for anyone else right now. There have been a lot of ups and downs to this, but I am not giving up. I continue to move forward.

I still think my biggest issue is I am still, to this day, optimistic that we will work things out. I dont understand why i feel this way. I take all the lessons I have learned from everyone here, what i have read, what i have experienced, who i know her to be, etc and still have a gut feeling that eventually, down the road we will try to work it out. The sad thing is, I know I am doing this and am not sure why or how to stop it. I can see it being an issue with any future relationship. How can i truly commit to someone else if I still pine and hope for something that I know will never happen. This is my biggest weakness right now. Something that I need to work on.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I think it's more of an awareness than a weakness.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Dont get me wrong. I am happy that I know that I am doing it. I can identify it right away. I know when my mind starts drifting into "what if" mode with thoughts of her. I am happy that i am not oblivious to it. 

I know it is a time thing. I have to be patient with it and let these thoughts run its course, continue to improve, live my life and eventually the thoughts will diminish and disappear.

Just shows that there is always something to work on.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Always. It's a balancing act between being confident in your progression and aware of what needs work.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

So, here is an update to my situation since I was last on TAM. 

The divorce is still dragging on. I filed for divorce a few months ago and everything seemed to be fine. Of course it isn't. First she forgot to have a document notarized. That put us back a week. Now, she forgot to take a required "Parenting Course" that needs to be submitted to the judge. I have asked on numerous occasions what is going on with it and her answer is always financial. The course is $40. i can understand if she lived on her own and had bills, etc, but she lives with her dad. Her financial decisions are not my business anymore, but once it starts affecting me it gets irritating. On a related note, she did have enough money to go on a cruise over New Years. Like it has been throughout the past, she could not care about the divorce (or so it seems). She did a great job disconnecting. She admitted to never reading the Marriage Settlement Agreement, since she "did not have the time". Fair enough, that's her decision. 

She has decided to go back to school, which I applaud her for, even though I do not agree with her financial decisions on it. We have gone as far as redoing our custody schedule so I can accommodate her schooling. I don't mind doing that since her going to school and getting a better job will only help my little one. I am not over accommodating on it, though. I changed the schedule since she has class on a certain day so I would have our daughter. Simple. 

We have gotten into a few arguments. She asked me if I could take the litle one on thanksgiving, even though it is her year. Usually, I would, but 1. I did not want to break my plans so she could make her own and 2. I can not be accommodating every time she wants something. Sometimes it is best to say No, even if it does not really affect you. She asked me on 5 separate occasions about changing. I told her No each time. The 5th time I asked her what was up. She clearly is desperate for me to change since she has asked numerous times. Of course she blew up. No big deal, i expected it.

Other than that, the ex and I have been doing fine. I still find it hard to talk to her in person. I can be friendly on the phone with her, but in person I have a hard time talking with her. I do know that she has brought the new guy around our daughter. She claims only in social settings, which, even if not true, I cant control. I have nothing against this guy, since he was not the one to have her cheat on me. Seems like a good guy from what i can tell. 

In September, I wrote her a letter. The theme of the letter was that of acceptance. Acceptance for the wrongs that I have done to her throughout the marriage. Acceptance for what she has done to me. Acceptance for everything that has happened since our break. I wanted to express to her that I forgive her and that I don't want us to hate each other. I saw that with my parents and I dont want that for our daughter. It felt great getting that off my chest with her. I was just as much at fault for this as she was. Her response was "Thank you. That letter was amazing". 

As some of you know I started dating someone back in March. Things seemed fine. I made sure to practice what i have learned, so I did not fall back into the codependency trap. I started to really care for her. We went on trips, met family, etc. She had a serious issue that I was still technically married. I personally dont get it, but that is her feelings. I can not change that. She did not want to be "official" until I was divorced. Ok. Fine. WE went on a trip in September to Orlando where a lot of friends were going to be. She met all of them, a lot for the first time. A few people introduced her as my girlfriend. When we got back home she flipped. We are not dating and she does not want to be called that. I said fine and left. I told her that she does not have to be called anything and that our relationship will be just that. She would rather be friends with benefits and people to know that, then to be a girlfriend to a married (going through divorce) guy. Ok. I allowed it for a while, since it really does not bother me. I stopped any and all things a bf would do. No trips, no family, etc. I let her know she could date other people,as well, since we are not official. Of course, this did not sit well with her. I told her I was not OK with it, since we are not dating. 

Will update more soon.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Is your lawyer able to press the matter? Bring it in front of a judge?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

06Daddio08 said:


> Is your lawyer able to press the matter? Bring it in front of a judge?


Yes, if I am willing to pay another 2,000 or so to get it done. At this point, I am almost $15,000 in with all this. My concern is pushing it too much. She has not really argued anything. No child support, no alimony, nothing. My fear is that I push too much and she will try to pull some **** and argue the terms....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hermes said:


> So, here is an update to my situation since I was last on TAM.
> 
> The divorce is still dragging on. I filed for divorce a few months ago and everything seemed to be fine. Of course it isn't. First she forgot to have a document notarized. That put us back a week. Now, she forgot to take a required "Parenting Course" that needs to be submitted to the judge. I have asked on numerous occasions what is going on with it and her answer is always financial. The course is $40. i can understand if she lived on her own and had bills, etc, but she lives with her dad. Her financial decisions are not my business anymore, but once it starts affecting me it gets irritating. On a related note, she did have enough money to go on a cruise over New Years. Like it has been throughout the past, she could not care about the divorce (or so it seems). She did a great job disconnecting. She admitted to never reading the Marriage Settlement Agreement, since she "did not have the time". Fair enough, that's her decision.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a Fitness Test Factory

If you don't want to be known as someone dating a married guy, don't date him.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like a Fitness Test Factory
> 
> If you don't want to be known as someone dating a married guy, don't date him.


Yep. It was, until I stopped falling for the tests. I told her that she chose to date me. We have continued to see each other throughout the divorce. She has changed her tune about it recently (the last month), but I have told her now that I am not OK with being official until it is done. I am not opening myself to more tests IF I were to decide to have something official before that point.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hermes Separation Journal*



Hermes said:


> Yes, if I am willing to pay another 2,000 or so to get it done. At this point, I am almost $15,000 in with all this. My concern is pushing it too much. She has not really argued anything. No child support, no alimony, nothing. My fear is that I push too much and she will try to pull some **** and argue the terms....


Here's the thing, she might not ask for any of those things but that doesn't mean a judge won't look it all over and award her something.

Just because two people agree, doesn't mean a judge won't make changes. I'm not trying to worry you, just don't use it as a reason not to go after what you want.

Does she have a lawyer? Can your lawyer send hers a letter about the stalling? All these extra changes because she's refusing it, any chance of that money being awarded to you somehow?

Try thinking outside the box a bit.


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