# How to handle this



## TheGoodFight

Here is the situation. 

Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.

Nothing else was said about it. Friday morning goes by, Friday evening goes by, here it is Saturday evening and nothing has been hinted or said. 

Did I already let it go too far? I'm actually kind of dreading her approaching me tonight because I'm already resentful. I know she will.

How should I handle this in your opinion?


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## Bellavista

She is probably waiting for you to make the move.


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## TheGoodFight

Bellavista said:


> She is probably waiting for you to make the move.


Maybe.


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## TheGoodFight

Let me put this in lady terms.

Thursday night, I told my husband I had something really important I wanted to discuss. He said "I'd love to discuss that with you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.

Nothing else was said about it. Friday morning goes by, Friday evening goes by, here it is Saturday evening and he hasn't even asked me what it was. 

Did I already let it go too far? I'm actually kind of dreading him asking me about it tonight because I'm already resentful. I know he will.

How should I handle this in your opinion?


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## bfree

Women need Men to lead. You should have "taken" her the next morning.

Why don't you both have a default answer of yes to sex every night. That way there is no "right night." Its always the right night.


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## MEM2020

She says "how about tomorrow"? 

And then tomorrow you don't ask, you just start kissing her. If she shoots you down - or acts indifferent - you stop and accept that your W has a sexual aversion to you. 

That isn't going to change. Either accept it or move on. Seems like you are unwilling to push this to clarity. 



TheGoodFight said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.
> 
> Nothing else was said about it. Friday morning goes by, Friday evening goes by, here it is Saturday evening and nothing has been hinted or said.
> 
> Did I already let it go too far? I'm actually kind of dreading her approaching me tonight because I'm already resentful. I know she will.
> 
> How should I handle this in your opinion?


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## MEM2020

Nope - the next night. It was what she said she wanted.



bfree said:


> Women need Men to lead. You should have "taken" her the next morning.
> 
> Why don't you both have a default answer of yes to sex every night. That way there is no "right night." Its always the right night.


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## bfree

MEM11363 said:


> Nope - the next night. It was what she said she wanted.


You are quite correct. Morning was his response, her suggestion was next night. He should have initiated the next night. Never ask for sex, just go for it. Make her say no. If she does say no don't pout or act upset, just go do something else like it doesn't matter.


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## AFEH

TheGoodFight said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.
> 
> Nothing else was said about it. Friday morning goes by, Friday evening goes by, here it is Saturday evening and nothing has been hinted or said.
> 
> Did I already let it go too far? I'm actually kind of dreading her approaching me tonight because I'm already resentful. I know she will.
> 
> How should I handle this in your opinion?


Put her over your knee and smack her bum. Make it fun.


In any event no way attempt to have sex the next day at all, rather wait till she wants something done then respond with the same reply “I’d love to do that for you but how about next month?”.


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## bfree

AFEH said:


> Put her over your knee and smack her bum. Make it fun.
> 
> 
> In any event no way attempt to have sex the next day at all, rather wait till she wants something done then respond with the same reply “I’d love to do that for you but how about next month?”.


Then you would have an antagonistic relationship. Plus it puts sex into a barter type system. That isn't productive IMO. And she would know that she can hold sex over his head in order to get something she wants. Not a good precedent to set.


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## AFEH

bfree said:


> Then you would have an antagonistic relationship. Plus it puts sex into a barter type system. That isn't productive IMO. And she would know that she can hold sex over his head in order to get something she wants. Not a good precedent to set.


Right ho then.


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## MEM2020

Bfree,
I completely disagree with this. She cannot say "tomorrow" and then shoot him down "tomorrow". 

Then again, to be fair she has made it clear she dislikes having sex with him. 




bfree said:


> You are quite correct. Morning was his response, her suggestion was next night. He should have initiated the next night. Never ask for sex, just go for it. Make her say no. If she does say no don't pout or act upset, just go do something else like it doesn't matter.


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## OhGeesh

Ya'll think too much!! OP talk to you wife heart heart about your sexual relationship. Ask the tough questions and make her feel 100% secure that you won't to know the honest truth. 

That you don't want to end up a statistic, how much physical bonding means to you, how much it makes you feel close to her, etc etc.

Let us know how it goes.


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## TheGoodFight

OhGeesh said:


> Ya'll think too much!! OP talk to you wife heart heart about your sexual relationship. Ask the tough questions and make her feel 100% secure that you won't to know the honest truth.
> 
> That you don't want to end up a statistic, how much physical bonding means to you, how much it makes you feel close to her, etc etc.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


 Why didn't I think of that!

Sorry to be sarcastic, but she knows.



MEM11363 said:


> Then again, to be fair she has made it clear she dislikes having sex with him.


Yea. that's really hard to argue with (or work with).


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## heavensangel

TheGoodFight - haven't read all your posts so please bear with me/be kind when I ask......

What kinds of things did you do during the day, Thursday, to get her in the mood/lead up to that point? Romance/intimacy for a woman starts way before you get into the bedroom. My ex's idea of initiating was sitting on his arse watching TV until I was done cooking, cleaning, bathing the kids, etc. When 10/11 rolled around, he was raring to go and couldn't understand why I wasn't in 'porn star' mode. Needless to say, this is ONE of the many reasons he's now an ex.


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## dymo

For a bit of background, TheGoodFight's wife had an affair, which consisted mostly of giving blowjobs to a guy who didn't give a crap or really need to initiate anything. I'm guessing that's lingering in the back of his mind.


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## AFEH

dymo said:


> For a bit of background, TheGoodFight's wife had an affair, which consisted mostly of giving blowjobs to a guy who didn't give a crap or really need to initiate anything. I'm guessing that's lingering in the back of his mind.


In that case it sounds like she has total control of him plus no respect for him or appreciation of him.


He’s never going to get her appreciation and respect back by being submissive to her in the way he is and without those things his life will be one of misery.

He’s far better off totally withdrawing everything he does for her, to never go to her for sex again and to tell her he’s withdrawn his love from her, separating and divorcing her.

If he does that she may decide to check back into her relationship with him and work on the marriage. He’ll then be in the driving seat and can decide if he wants her back or not and if he does what his conditions are.


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## Pault

If the rejection was continuous then OK time for some serious questions.

In this case "Here is the situation. 

Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.
"
Why push for the morning whats wrong with tommorw night - Its almost a power struggle issue. Its not about cutting a deal its supposed to be making love (or am I wrong here?)

She has stated she wants to do a certain act for you but tomorrow night. Then let it go to then. If you get the rollover and nil response from her tomorrow then ask why, whats wrong if its always tomorrow and nothng happens again start asking questions.

It could really be shes had a hell of a day and is just about sleeping on her nose. What happened to give and take 

Just easy by, keep a cool head as its only you thats winding up about it and try again - 

(Ive not read all the posts due to time limits so assume nothing different to the first post was added- excuse me if thats not right)


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## Toffer

Pault said:


> If the rejection was continuous then OK time for some serious questions.
> 
> In this case "Here is the situation.
> 
> Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.
> "
> Why push for the morning whats wrong with tommorw night - Its almost a power struggle issue. Its not about cutting a deal its supposed to be making love (or am I wrong here?)
> 
> She has stated she wants to do a certain act for you but tomorrow night. Then let it go to then. If you get the rollover and nil response from her tomorrow then ask why, whats wrong if its always tomorrow and nothng happens again start asking questions.
> 
> It could really be shes had a hell of a day and is just about sleeping on her nose. What happened to give and take
> 
> *Apparently she had no problem "giving" blowjobs to other men but her husband wanting may be 20 minutes of her time? Heck, he even offered a compromise which she choose to ignore *
> 
> Just easy by, keep a cool head as its only you thats winding up about it and try again -
> 
> (Ive not read all the posts due to time limits so assume nothing different to the first post was added- excuse me if thats not right)


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## TheGoodFight

heavensangel said:


> TheGoodFight - haven't read all your posts so please bear with me/be kind when I ask......
> 
> What kinds of things did you do during the day, Thursday, to get her in the mood/lead up to that point? Romance/intimacy for a woman starts way before you get into the bedroom. My ex's idea of initiating was sitting on his arse watching TV until I was done cooking, cleaning, bathing the kids, etc. When 10/11 rolled around, he was raring to go and couldn't understand why I wasn't in 'porn star' mode. Needless to say, this is ONE of the many reasons he's now an ex.


I've done this in the past (the sitting on my arse part). I haven't been that way in over a year now though.

I don't remember doing anything special Thursday. I wasn't looking to score all day or anything like that. We just had our normal time together.

Today, before I left for work, I kissed her neck and said something about hooking up this evening and got "Sure." And not like a "Sure! :bounce:", but more like "Sure.. (but not looking forward to it.)"

She quickly changed this to "I mean yes!" since I've said before how the little "Sure" comment makes me feel. So already that's pretty deflating. The tone is already set. There is nothing I feel like I can say or do now to make it any better. How to build anticipation with her now?


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## bfree

Question - Why did you ask for sex? Unless you said it like "be ready because tonight I'm f*cking you" you can come off as needy. Women hate needy. (apologies for the crassness of the language)

Ok, I'm going to make a comment but I ask that others chime in because this probably doesn't work in every marriage or relationship.

What if you just stopped caring about what she wants, what she thinks, or what she feels. Maybe you as man and husband just impose your will on her and do what you want without regard for what she wants. I'm just saying that because some women really get off on being dominated by a man who isn't concerned about their feelings at all. It sounds like your wife submitted to just such a man. And if you look at the popularity of the book _50 Shades of Gray_ I would suggest that this isn't all that unique with women.


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## TheGoodFight

bfree said:


> Question - Why did you ask for sex? Unless you said it like "be ready because tonight I'm f*cking you" you can come off as needy. Women hate needy. (apologies for the crassness of the language)


My exact words were "Are you going to be ready for a good pounding tonight?"

Because we were talking about it last night before going to bed. I tried to initiate and she said she thought she wasn't quite done with her period. Sorry if TMI.


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## AFEH

TheGoodFight said:


> My exact words were *"Are you going to be ready for a good pounding tonight?"*
> 
> Because we were talking about it last night before going to bed. I tried to initiate and she said she thought she wasn't quite done with her period. Sorry if TMI.


In 42 years I never uttered such words to my wife. Never once asked for sex. Never once asked her to schedule sex.


Yet I got all the sex any man could ever dream of.

You sir need to change your game very big time.


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## TheGoodFight

AFEH said:


> In 42 years I never uttered such words to my wife. Never once asked for sex. Never once asked her to schedule sex.
> 
> 
> Yet I got all the sex any man could ever dream of.
> 
> You sir need to change your game very big time.


Well I guess I'm lost then. I didn't mean it as a real question. It was done with a smile.


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## AFEH

TheGoodFight said:


> Well I guess I'm lost then. I didn't mean it as a real question. It was done with a smile.


Smile or not you declared what your particular view of sex actually is plus you actually asked her if you can have sex without taking into consideration her circumstances may or may not be changed.

For me you are seriously out of touch with what turns a woman on and as importantly what turns a woman off.

But you also have a defeatist attitude (which may well be justified in your situation) so you are very unlikely to go out on a limb and try anything new.


It’s like you actually want to fail. That you don’t want to have sex with her and so you do things to ensure it doesn’t happen.


And I’d guess she knows that. She knows you don’t really want her, so she doesn’t give her sex to you.


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## TheGoodFight

AFEH said:


> Smile or not you declared what your particular view of sex actually is plus you actually asked her if you can have sex without taking into consideration her circumstances may or may not be changed.


So what would you have said / done differently?



AFEH said:


> For me you are seriously out of touch with what turns a woman on and as importantly what turns a woman off.
> 
> But you also have a defeatist attitude (which may well be justified in your situation) so you are very unlikely to go out on a limb and try anything new.


I'm all for trying something new. It why I asked the question to begin with.



AFEH said:


> It’s like you actually want to fail. That you don’t want to have sex with her and so you do things to ensure it doesn’t happen.
> 
> 
> And I’d guess she knows that. She knows you don’t really want her, so she doesn’t give her sex to you.


I think this part is way off though.


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## AFEH

TheGoodFight said:


> So what would you have said / done differently?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for trying something new. It why I asked the question to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this part is way off though.


Check with your wife if the chemistry is there for her. If it isn’t then never again try and get sex with her.

If it is then go together and see a sex therapist. If that’s not affordable read books about love and sex.


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## Cosmos

If she suggested a rain check until the following night, why didn't you just initiate? Had you done so and she'd turned you down then, I could understand your resentment a little more...


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## bfree

TheGoodFight said:


> My exact words were "Are you going to be ready for a good pounding tonight?"
> 
> Because we were talking about it last night before going to bed. I tried to initiate and she said she thought she wasn't quite done with her period. Sorry if TMI.


Not TMI for me. I'm a guy so nothing bothers me.

Why don't you have sex during her period? Is that her choice or yours? FWIW, I always have sex and whether my wife is menstruating or not does not come into play at all. If she doesn't feel comfortable having sex during her period tell her there are other forms of sex besides P in V. Oral, anal, breast play, etc. Use your imagination. The point is where there is a will there is a way. If she seems to lack the will, show her the way.


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## AFEH

TheGoodFight said:


> So what would you have said / done differently?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for trying something new. It why I asked the question to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this part is way off though.


I feel you’re knocking on a door that just doesn’t want to open, that your wife has no desire for you.


If however it’s you that’s actually turning her desire off then have a read of The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books, it comes highly recommended by most of the guys and some of the women on TAM.

Also have a read of http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hold-Your-N...4400/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346613764&sr=8-3 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Awareness-A...5192/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346613803&sr=8-1.


All three books are transforming.


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## bfree

AFEH said:


> I feel you’re knocking on a door that just doesn’t want to open, that your wife has no desire for you.
> 
> 
> If however it’s you that’s actually turning her desire off then have a read of The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books, it comes highly recommended by most of the guys and some of the women on TAM.
> 
> Also have a read of http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hold-Your-N...4400/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346613764&sr=8-3 and Awareness: Amazon.co.uk: Anthony De Mello: Books.
> 
> 
> All three books are transforming.


Agreed. MMSL and similar advice really helped solidify my marriage and my wife is 100x happier since I've started taking charge more. And my wife goes to Athol's site to read his blog and participate in his forum. Now she's gaming me! LOL It really does go both ways.


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## TheGoodFight

Well it worked apparently. I got laid. The real test will be tonight.


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## BookOfJob

TheGoodFight said:


> So what would you have said / done differently?
> 
> I'm all for trying something new. It why I asked the question to begin with.
> 
> I think this part is way off though.


Hey GoodFight, they say, "do not verbalize". Take a look at this, pretty short reading:

On Dominance

Report back to us when done, OK?


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## heavensangel

TheGoodFight said:


> I got laid.




This is how you refer to having sex/making love to your wife? Please tell us you didn't use that phrase with her? Sorry......not trying to be mean but that sounds like something a teenager says to his buddies after his last conquest who he could care a less about.


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## Machiavelli

heavensangel said:


> This is how you refer to having sex/making love to your wife? Please tell us you didn't use that phrase with her? Sorry......not trying to be mean but that sounds like something a teenager says to his buddies after his last conquest who he could care a less about.


This place IS called the "men's clubhouse." And getting laid is called "getting laid."


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## TheGoodFight

heavensangel said:


> This is how you refer to having sex/making love to your wife? Please tell us you didn't use that phrase with her? Sorry......not trying to be mean but that sounds like something a teenager says to his buddies after his last conquest who he could care a less about.


I care quite a bit actually. And no, I don't talk to her that way. But I did get laid.  Rejected last night though. And I didn't ask, I just went for it.


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## Machiavelli

Have you read MMSL?


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## bfree

TheGoodFight said:


> I care quite a bit actually. And no, I don't talk to her that way. But I did get laid.  Rejected last night though. And I didn't ask, I just went for it.


What was her excuse?


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## TheGoodFight

bfree said:


> What was her excuse?


No excuse, she just made it clear she wasn't interested. Just no response to the kissing and rubbing. I wasn't grabbing crotches or being rough or anything like that. this was kisses on the neck and gentle touch.

She just stayed fixated on the TV like I was blocking her from being able to see it. So I stopped. I didn't act upset, I just stopped. And then she said "So I don't want to have sex one night and you're upset." I said "Yea, like it's just the one night." And she said "It doesn't mean I don't love you."

That was it.


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## TheGoodFight

Machiavelli said:


> Have you read MMSL?


I've read it. I've incorporated what I can. 

Specifically:


1. I started spending more time with the family and kids.

2. I started being decisive about things. No wishy washy "I don't know, what do you want to do?" stuff.

3. I took over the "man" jobs around the house. I fix things, I mow the lawn, etc.

4. I started lifting weights.

5. I started staying "cleaner". Make sure I brush my teeth before bed every night. Take more showers.

6. We started getting out more. At least a couple times a month. (Two small kids)

7. I isolate, I instigate, I get nowhere.


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## dymo

TheGoodFight said:


> I wasn't grabbing crotches or being rough or anything like that.


Have you ever tried that with her? She does seem to respond to dominance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodFight

dymo said:


> Have you ever tried that with her? She does seem to respond to dominance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes and she says she doesn't like to be groped. So i feel like I can't win.

Like this morning she came out of the shower and had just put on her bra, hair still wet. Looked sexy. I came up behind her, said "mmmm", put my hands around her from behind and did the hand bra thing, pulled her close and kissed her neck. 

She said something about being groped so I let go and playfully said "Ah you know you like it" to which she replied "Is that what you think?" with this kind of "I don't like that" attitude. 

Now I don't go around groping her all the time. I know I've read on here from women who feel like they can't bend over around the house for fear of being felt up all the time. It wasn't like that. It was just an in the moment kind of thing.


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## Plan 9 from OS

You have some pretty long threads, but if I'm not mistaken you're the BS whose wife was giving BJs to the gym teacher? Apologies if that's not your story.

Are you satisfied with how your reconciliation went with your wife, or are you two still reconciling? You two may be heading down a road that is "closed for construction", and you two may have to take a detour. I'm not going to say that your recovery is false, but she may be falling back into old habits and taking the patience and care that you showed her by taking her back for granted. Do you feel that the two of you recently have had sex that was as intense as what she had with the OM? 

I don't know enough about how your marriage is now, but based on what I know I'd sit her down and tell her that you are not happy with the way things are going. Let he know that she needs to put more effort into making all of this up to you because you are not feeling the love that you deserve. JMO, but I think she's rug swept this and has moved on to the "good old days"...


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## TheGoodFight

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You have some pretty long threads, but if I'm not mistaken you're the BS whose wife was giving BJs to the gym teacher? Apologies if that's not your story.
> 
> Are you satisfied with how your reconciliation went with your wife, or are you two still reconciling? You two may be heading down a road that is "closed for construction", and you two may have to take a detour. I'm not going to say that your recovery is false, but she may be falling back into old habits and taking the patience and care that you showed her by taking her back for granted. Do you feel that the two of you recently have had sex that was as intense as what she had with the OM?
> 
> I don't know enough about how your marriage is now, but based on what I know I'd sit her down and tell her that you are not happy with the way things are going. Let he know that she needs to put more effort into making all of this up to you because you are not feeling the love that you deserve. JMO, but I think she's rug swept this and has moved on to the "good old days"...


They guy was a math teacher and golf coach but close enough. That's me. 

And no, I'm not happy with it. How can I be? Yes some things are better in a sense. I have a better relationship with my children. The relationship with my wife is better in that we now communicate more than we did. I'm much more aware of myself and live more in reality.

Other than that, I haven't gotten a lot out of it honestly.

All I've ever really had a complaint about in our marriage was our sex life. I really had no other complaints. But that's a big one. Pre-A I had kind of accepted it. But now that she has given that to someone else, why should I settle for less?


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## dymo

TheGoodFight said:


> Yes and she says she doesn't like to be groped. So i feel like I can't win.
> 
> Like this morning she came out of the shower and had just put on her bra, hair still wet. Looked sexy. I came up behind her, said "mmmm", put my hands around her from behind and did the hand bra thing, pulled her close and kissed her neck.
> 
> She said something about being groped so I let go and playfully said "Ah you know you like it" to which she replied "Is that what you think?" with this kind of "I don't like that" attitude.
> 
> Now I don't go around groping her all the time. I know I've read on here from women who feel like they can't bend over around the house for fear of being felt up all the time. It wasn't like that. It was just an in the moment kind of thing.


See... That's not what I'm getting at. My fault, I didn't make things clear. I'm not necessarily talking about how you initiate things. I'm more generally asking what happens when you you get laid. All the touching you've described so far is gentle, loving. What I'm suggesting is she might benefit from some dominance in the bedroom. Manhandle her. Treat her like a piece of meat. It's weird, but deep down a lot of women like that, at least some of the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheGoodFight

dymo said:


> See... That's not what I'm getting at. My fault, I didn't make things clear. I'm not necessarily talking about how you initiate things. I'm more generally asking what happens when you you get laid. All the touching you've described so far is gentle, loving. What I'm suggesting is she might benefit from some dominance in the bedroom. Manhandle her. Treat her like a piece of meat. It's weird, but deep down a lot of women like that, at least some of the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh no, she likes the dominance in the bedroom. Prefers it in fact. She is not into anything too rough, but she does like her hair pulled, ass slapped, and for me to give it to her with some force. 

And I get that. I'm up for it and I do it because she likes it.

I like the sensual stuff too though because I like to get that connection and loving feeling. Her, not so much.


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## Plan 9 from OS

dymo said:


> See... That's not what I'm getting at. My fault, I didn't make things clear. I'm not necessarily talking about how you initiate things. I'm more generally asking what happens when you you get laid. All the touching you've described so far is gentle, loving. What I'm suggesting is she might benefit from some dominance in the bedroom. Manhandle her. Treat her like a piece of meat. It's weird, but deep down a lot of women like that, at least some of the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think the issue is how the OP is performing in bed or approaching her for sex. It's the fact that his WS was practically juicing her panties over being with the OM. Yet she doesn't show this lustful behavior with him. If both were on equal terms then I would agree with you that the OP should try to "up" his game and educate himself. However, the OP is owed a huge debt by his WS. In that case, if it was me, I'd tell her to fvck this mating ritual/kabuki dance bullsh!t and just give me the motherfvcking instruction manual to get you excited about having sex with me. I'd also tell her, it if was me, that you royally mind fvcked me for a solid year with your pathetic and cowardly actions by throwing yourself at some puke of a man instead of being a woman and working on our issues like we promised each other that we would do. 

I'd read the wh0re the motherfvcking riot act about how she is continuing to take advantage of my good nature and the chances that I've given her by remaining in this marriage.

Sorry OP, but for some reason your situation got me steamed. And the sad part about it is that I've never been cheated on nor have I cheated on anyone in my life. I hate to see good people being taken advantage of.


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## bfree

TheGoodFight said:


> They guy was a math teacher and golf coach but close enough. That's me.
> 
> And no, I'm not happy with it. How can I be? Yes some things are better in a sense. I have a better relationship with my children. The relationship with my wife is better in that we now communicate more than we did. I'm much more aware of myself and live more in reality.
> 
> Other than that, I haven't gotten a lot out of it honestly.
> 
> All I've ever really had a complaint about in our marriage was our sex life. I really had no other complaints. But that's a big one. Pre-A I had kind of accepted it. But now that she has given that to someone else, *why should I settle for less?*


You absolutely shouldn't!

I admit I'm at a loss here. It certainly sounds like you have done as much as you can from your side. I do think that you might sometimes might appear to be a little needy to her but I understand where your coming from. I don't know. It might be time to consider this a failed R. She sounds very emotionally disconnected from you like she checked out a long time ago and doesn't plan on coming back.


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## heavensangel

Machiavelli said:


> This place IS called the "men's clubhouse." And getting laid is called "getting laid."


Lol! Touche' I do know from a woman's perspective (given the fact that both men/women occasionally respond to posts in their respective clubhouses', I feel comfortable giving mine here) the act itself is sacred; she views it as a way to emotionally connect with her man. Even after 18 years (16+) married it would make me feel cheap and used to hear my H use the term 'getting laid' to describe how he felt about us being intimate together. It maybe just the 'romantic' in me, but I think most women feel the same; but also have to admit that I can't answer for them all either.


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## Tall Average Guy

heavensangel said:


> Lol! Touche' I do know from a woman's perspective (given the fact that both men/women occasionally respond to posts in their respective clubhouses', I feel comfortable giving mine here) the act itself is sacred; she views it as a way to emotionally connect with her man. Even after 18 years (16+) married it would make me feel cheap and used to hear my H use the term 'getting laid' to describe how he felt about us being intimate together. It maybe just the 'romantic' in me, but I think most women feel the same; but also have to admit that I can't answer for them all either.


I don't see this as being universal. Sex with my wife can be sacred. It can also be a stress relief. Sometimes is just nasty f---ing. All of it is important. The other morning, after we had some great sex, I was in a good mood. When my wife asked me about, I told I got a hot piece of a-- last night. She swatted me on the arm, told me I was a dirty old man, and them beamed all morning. 

I raise this because I think taking sex off the pedestal is important. It is not always some magical romantic connection where your souls meld. Sometimes it is just two people that love each other having fun together or to horny adults going at it. And that is just fine.

To GF, it sounds like your wife is less the sex is sacred and more it is for fun. Or perhaps she needs that dominate aspect to bond to her mate. Either way, I would focus on this and stay away from the softer stuff for awhile.


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## heavensangel

Tall Average Guy, 

Ok.... I see: More to do with the context in which it's used? As in your example, really a form of flirting/teasing vs degrading and bashing. Thanks for explaining. Unfortunately, we can't always here the tone of voice or attitude in which someone makes a comment via email, forums, etc. 

The Goodfight - Pls accept my apology if indeed I offended you with my comment.


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## Machiavelli

Plan 9 has it right. Goodfight, you're wife is not pulling her load. Do you ever go out with her in environments where your wife sees other women giving you the eye or flirting with you? Your seems to think she's got you on the hook for life and has no need to lift a finger. You need to disillusion her in that regard. Start going out solo, ****ed and locked.


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## RandomDude

I would play a bit of push and pull if my wife rejected me in that fashion, works everytime! Bit of a game but I love the challenge lol


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## BookOfJob

TheGoodFight said:


> 6. We started getting out more. At least a couple times a month. (Two small kids)


Any chance of going out with your male friends/buddies? I could be mistaken but maybe going out with kids doesn't really count.


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## Tall Average Guy

heavensangel said:


> Tall Average Guy,
> 
> Ok.... I see: More to do with the context in which it's used? As in your example, really a form of flirting/teasing vs degrading and bashing. Thanks for explaining. Unfortunately, we can't always here the tone of voice or attitude in which someone makes a comment via email, forums, etc.
> 
> The Goodfight - Pls accept my apology if indeed I offended you with my comment.


I think your point about context is right.  I do agree that it is important to examine to make sure GF (or anyone) is not messing that up.


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## TheGoodFight

Thought I'd just continue in this thread since it was created a month ago.

Here is what I think the problem boils down to.

My wife says that she doesn't think she was ever sexually attracted to me and now sex with me makes her skin crawl.

I personally thank that is BS. We were together 6 years before we got married. We have been married 12 years. We have two children. She would have to be an absolute psycopath to do all of that with someone she is sexually repulsed by. And I don't consider her crazy.

The fact is, I never heard the words "I'm not sexually attracted to you" until she was 9 months into a PA with a coworker. 

I think she is comparing her sexual feeling for me with her AP to this day and thinks that she is missing out. This guy is long gone and has even moved out of state. I'm sure they haven't had any contact for almost a year. I'm not sure she is even really hung up on him anymore anyway. I think she is just hung up on the feeling.

I think she believes that she never knew the kind of sexual feelings she could have for a man until she met him. And now that she knows she can have that, it's what she wants, but at the same time doesn't want to break up her family.

I'm having serious second thoughts about my actions to end her affair and keep her in the family home.


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## Tall Average Guy

TheGoodFight said:


> Thought I'd just continue in this thread since it was created a month ago.
> 
> Here is what I think the problem boils down to.
> 
> My wife says that she doesn't think she was ever sexually attracted to me and now sex with me makes her skin crawl.
> 
> I personally thank that is BS. We were together 6 years before we got married. We have been married 12 years. We have two children. She would have to be an absolute psycopath to do all of that with someone she is sexually repulsed by. And I don't consider her crazy.
> 
> The fact is, I never heard the words "I'm not sexually attracted to you" until she was 9 months into a PA with a coworker.
> 
> I think she is comparing her sexual feeling for me with her AP to this day and thinks that she is missing out. This guy is long gone and has even moved out of state. I'm sure they haven't had any contact for almost a year. I'm not sure she is even really hung up on him anymore anyway. I think she is just hung up on the feeling.
> 
> I think she believes that she never knew the kind of sexual feelings she could have for a man until she met him. And now that she knows she can have that, it's what she wants, but at the same time doesn't want to break up her family.
> 
> I'm having serious second thoughts about my actions to end her affair and keep her in the family home.


Consider that she is telling you the truth. You telling her it is BS won't get you anywhere. Her feelings are what they are, and you need to deal with it. It is actually quite insulting to tell her otherwise, and she will not react well to it. 

So now you know that "sex with you makes her skin crawl." Knowing that fact, what are you going to do? It really is that simple. I am sorry you are in this position.


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## Ten_year_hubby

TheGoodFight said:


> My wife says that she doesn't think she was ever sexually attracted to me and now sex with me makes her skin crawl.
> 
> I personally thank that ...
> 
> I think she is ...
> 
> I think she believes ..
> 
> I'm having serious second thoughts about my actions to end her affair and keep her in the family home.


Way too much thinking going on here and too little action, in my humble opinion. Your wife has shared her internal state with you and this is a big positive. If I were in your place, I would reaffirm my love for her, tell her I am here to help and want to work together to get us to a better place, suggest firmly that we reach out for professional help and engage in a specific program to improve our situation. If this were me, I would be in a therapist's office before the end of the week, by myself if necessary.


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## ATC529R

TheGoodFight said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> Thursday night, I try to initiate. She says "I'd love to do that for you but how about tomorrow night?" I said "How about tomorrow morning?" Silence, I went to sleep.
> 
> Nothing else was said about it. Friday morning goes by, Friday evening goes by, here it is Saturday evening and nothing has been hinted or said.
> 
> Did I already let it go too far? I'm actually kind of dreading her approaching me tonight because I'm already resentful. I know she will.
> 
> How should I handle this in your opinion?


when in doubt, whip it out!


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## Tall Average Guy

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Way too much thinking going on here and too little action, in my humble opinion. Your wife has shared her internal state with you and this is a big positive. If I were in your place, I would reaffirm my love for her, tell her I am here to help and want to work together to get us to a better place, suggest firmly that we reach out for professional help and engage in a specific program to improve our situation. If this were me, I would be in a therapist's office before the end of the week, by myself if necessary.


Why? I don't recall every post by GF, but I don't recall her being all that gung-ho about counseling or working on things. This suggestion smacks of again telling her that her feelings are wrong. I am not sure that this does anything more than prolong the inevitable.


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## TheGoodFight

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why? I don't recall every post by GF, but I don't recall her being all that gung-ho about counseling or working on things. This suggestion smacks of again telling her that her feelings are wrong. I am not sure that this does anything more than prolong the inevitable.


Besides that we went to MC for months. Then we quit going because she wanted to go see a sex therapist on her own. that was 4 months ago. She went one time and hasn't been back.

Logically all of this just seems so stupid to me. But emotionaly it's killing me.


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## strugglinghusband

TheGoodFight said:


> Besides that we went to MC for months. Then we quit going because she wanted to go see a sex therapist on her own. that was 4 months ago. She went one time and hasn't been back.
> 
> Logically all of this just seems so stupid to me. But emotionaly it's killing me.




How could it not TGF?


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## Tall Average Guy

TheGoodFight said:


> Besides that we went to MC for months. Then we quit going because she wanted to go see a sex therapist on her own. that was 4 months ago. She went one time and hasn't been back.
> 
> Logically all of this just seems so stupid to me. But emotionaly it's killing me.


It seems to me that her actions and her words are fully aligned. She is telling you the truth as she knows it, as painful as that is for you to here. Now you have to decide how *you* want to proceed. I am emphasize you because it is clear that she is unwilling to do the hard work. She has not been honest with you (both intentionally and unintentionally) until just now. So now that you know the truth, you have to decide what you want and deserve.

Again, I am so sorry that you are going through this.


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## MEM2020

TGF,
1. If your W really wanted a divorce she would initiate one. Overall she does not want one. 
2. The statement about "makes her skin crawl" is at the high end of the scale in terms of causing a HD partner to end the marriage.
3. She CLEARLY has a sex drive and likes sex with the right person
4. Combining 1-3 - her ideal environment is:
a. No marital sex
b. No pressure for marital sex
c. She gets to discreetly have affairs

She only says (2), because it is true. Since the statement itself is in direct conflict with (1), she only says it because it is true and it pushes the marriage in the direction of (4). 

TGF,
You say - she used to feel desire for you. I totally agree. There is NO WAY she married you after 6 years of skin crawling sex. 

So the question isn't - where is she - but rather where "could she be". And the answer is - not possible to predict. The only way I have seen this process run in reverse is via "shock treatment" FOLLOWED BY a sustained shift in demeanor by the HD partner which is very difficult to pull off.




TheGoodFight said:


> Thought I'd just continue in this thread since it was created a month ago.
> 
> Here is what I think the problem boils down to.
> 
> My wife says that she doesn't think she was ever sexually attracted to me and now sex with me makes her skin crawl.
> 
> I personally thank that is BS. We were together 6 years before we got married. We have been married 12 years. We have two children. She would have to be an absolute psycopath to do all of that with someone she is sexually repulsed by. And I don't consider her crazy.
> 
> The fact is, I never heard the words "I'm not sexually attracted to you" until she was 9 months into a PA with a coworker.
> 
> I think she is comparing her sexual feeling for me with her AP to this day and thinks that she is missing out. This guy is long gone and has even moved out of state. I'm sure they haven't had any contact for almost a year. I'm not sure she is even really hung up on him anymore anyway. I think she is just hung up on the feeling.
> 
> I think she believes that she never knew the kind of sexual feelings she could have for a man until she met him. And now that she knows she can have that, it's what she wants, but at the same time doesn't want to break up her family.
> 
> I'm having serious second thoughts about my actions to end her affair and keep her in the family home.


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## Ten_year_hubby

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't recall her being all that gung-ho about counseling or working on things.
> 
> This suggestion smacks of again telling her that her feelings are wrong.
> 
> I am not sure that this does anything more than prolong the inevitable.


Exactly, that's why she needs his material help and encouragement. She doesn't appear to be a reliable partner in her current state. If she won't go to counseling by herself, drive her over and go in with her.

I don't really know about wrong or right feelings or telling anyone their feelings are right or wrong, but I can say that the woman's feelings are not helping her marriage and she might be best served by working through them, understanding their origin and working on developing better feelings towards her husband.

In my humble opinion, this course of actions speeds up the inevitable, whatever that is. We can either work on our situation and bring it into something agreeable to both or we can find ourselves in some other situation.


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## Pault

I feel if my H said this following her having and affair of the PA variety I'd be seeking to disengage emotionally to protect myself especially my sanity. This type of statement is indicative of telling you to be a room-mate only. Cuddles and sharing of closeness fits in to the touching process and as such will deteriorate. Sadly I see only one outcome here unless something incredable occurs to bring about her change of emotion. The disengagement time will serve you to build up the stratagy for a new life, perhaps with someone who will love you, will show you so and will respect you for what and who you are.


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