# The secret life of my wife



## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

In 2010 my wife and I made a joint decision to relocate. I transferred internally with my company and was employed immediately. She however was unable to find employment and we lived apart for two years. We would see each other on the weekends only Friday night – Sunday afternoon at least every other week but often every week. 

About 6 months into us living apart we sold our house in the old location for a huge financial loss. Because I am responsible I would not go through foreclosure. However between the housing costs and paying to live in two cities we became financially incapable of my wife quitting her job. 

During the time we lived apart I started getting involved in several of my hobbies. One of the hobbies I spent a lot of time with was video games. We had fallen into a regular schedule of watching all of the TV shows and a movie (via Netflix) each weekend. We both work a lot and we don’t really have time during the week to watch TV. While I like to relax I also like to be doing something while I relax so I would play video games for several hours on the weekend while we watched our shows (Sometimes 8-10 hours a day). 

Needless to say my wife felt alone and abandon and I know I will forever have to live with the fact that I took her for granted. After about 6 months in to the two years we were living apart I became depressed because I felt helpless. All I have ever wanted was for my wife to be happy and I tried to do everything I could to bring us back to living together. I looked for new jobs that paid more, I tried to not spend money, I tried to get her to apply for temp work here but none of it seemed to work.

She claims she tried to bring her loneliness to my attention but because of our situation (living apart) and the fact that she had a very verbally abusive boss my interpretation of these breakdowns was the result of our situation. Since she gets so emotional about all this stuff it is difficult to get her to talk about it without her crying and becoming very hard to understand. It also happened that she would try to have these discussions as she was leaving for the weekend. So again I thought the emotions related to the fact that she had to drive back to a horrible situation at work while living away from each other.

Finally after two years of living apart we were living together again after she secured a job here locally. She had been going to counseling on her own to work on issues she needed to get through. Her counselor had suggested we go to MC after we started living together again and while we were living apart I agreed that it would be a good idea. 


After about 1.5 months of living together everything seemed to be back to our normal routine. So when she asked if we wanted to go to MC, I told her that “I had been to counseling before for anxiety/panic attacks and it did not help, that we could work through any issues”. Obviously I did not know how bad things were otherwise I would have gone right there and then. I did not think there was a problem because we were back in our pre move routine. Around Thanksgiving time last year I realized for myself that the time I was spending with my friends online playing video games was ruining our relationship. I tried apologizing but it was not accepted because she had been very unhappy about this for at least 2 years. 


As a result of the MC discussion, in her mind I had given up on our marriage and it was not going to be what she wanted. So in November of last year she started seeing a guy at her work behind my back. 


In December I suggested we needed to go to marriage counseling but at that time she was not interested. In February we started MC. We were in MC until last week when my wife decided that this counselor was not working out for her. The counselor would ask her to talk about what she had done with this other guy and she was only willing to blame me for her cheating on me. 


I did not find out about it until February when I upgraded my iphone and accidently started receiving text messages for her iphone as well as mine. This was a week before we were to start MC. The next week she got off our joint phone plan because she realized that a) I was able to read her text messages and b) I was able to access the detailed billing and prove that this had been going on for a few months. She even went so far as to talk to this guy at our home for 20 minutes at a time by saying she had to go to the bathroom and disappearing upstairs. They would talk at all hours of the day. 


I believe I caught it early on in the relationship (from a physical perspective). She claims they have just kissed. I have a very hard time believing this but at the time I was willing to accept that so long as she would come clean and tell me the truth about what was going on. I wanted to know some of the details so I could understand the extent to which I was deceived. I am also concerned that she is very emotionally attached to this guy as he has been helping her though these issues. 


I told her I loved her and wanted to be with her but before I could forgive her I needed to understand what happened. While we have talked several times each time I ask her a specific question she talks about the why and not about what happened. So she will say that she was so lonely, and that I had abandoned her, etc. For some reason she is unable to tell me what happened. Our MC has asked her why she can’t tell me and asked her to tell me in a letter (4 weeks ago) which I don’t think she will do either. She has told me that telling me is not going to help our relationship, that she does not think we are going to work out or that I am trying to control her.


Two weeks ago she finally was able to communicate what she needed from me. Since she has been unwilling to tell me what has happened I have not made an effort to do what she requires. I am trying to protect myself from being absolutely devastated if she chooses to end the relationship.


Last weekend when I was out of town I found out that she basically spent the entire weekend with this guy. She claims nothing physically happened because she had a cold sore. However, she drove to his house on Friday night at 10:30 pm and stayed the night. She then drove back there on Saturday and stayed the night again. When I confronted her about it she lied. She said she was tired and went to sleep at our house (both nights). When I told her I knew she was there she changed her story and said she had too much to drink and did not want to drive home (Saturday night). She lied about Friday night several times saying she did not stay there, that she was lonely and just needed to talk to someone (keep in mind I was talking to her until 10:20 pm).

The very practical and rational side of me says I should end our marriage and move on with my life. However, I love her and I think part of me is concerned I will not find someone else that will replace what we had together. 


Every time I go to confront her she puts just enough doubt in my mind (cold sore) that maybe when it comes to the physical stuff she is telling me the truth. It still does not excuse the emotional side of things.


At the end of the day I don’t want to reflect back 15 or 20 years from now and regret leaving the woman I love. 

A few other facts:
We have been married for almost 8 years
We have been together for 12 years and
We have known each other for 15 years
We do not have any kids. 

My plan:

I have a list of about 40-50 questions I would like her to answer. Most are yes/no questions so that she will not get bogged down in putting her cheating back on me. I know I am partially to blame but she has not taken responsibilities for her actions while I have taken responsibility for my actions (I have basically stopped playing video games). Given the extent of her lies and deception I am not sure I can just trust her to be honest in answering the questions. 


I intend to ask her to take a polygraph because I feel it is the only way I can get some certainty around what happened. I don’t honestly think she will take the test because in some ways I think she is trying to punish me for what I did to her. I have asked for access to her phone, email and specifically the text messages between her and this guy. She does not think I have the right to these things and she has the right to her privacy. 


I am going to see a counselor on my own (her suggestion) but I would appreciate any advice. 

I felt that until last weekend we had a real shot at making our marriage work. Now I am not sure that is possible.

Looking for any thoughts or suggestions on how I can get her to talk to me about her actions. I am also looking for any suggestions on how I can learn to trust her again. Thanks for reading all this.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

She had sex with him..It is possible that she didn't, but from experience and all the evidence..no one stays all night at another woman or man's house if some kind of sex is not involved.
She's lying to you.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

_"The very practical and rational side of me says I should end our marriage and move on with my life. However, I love her and I think part of me is concerned I will not find someone else that will replace what we had together."
_

You will not get back what you had together. She made sure of that when she cheated ... and yes, you know they are having sex. So whether you divorce or reconcile, you have no chance of having that with her again. You may not find that with another person but there is a good chance you will find something better.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

When the times get tough, the tough get going. 
She has shown that she doesn't care enough about you to be able to handle adversity, so you need to ask yourself if you really care enough for her to be able to overlook the fact that you can't trust her out of your sight.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She has a lover and is having a physical affair (PA).

You have to decide for yourself if you're okay with sharing her.

If not, let her go; start a new life with another woman. (Or try to reconcile if she's able to wean her lover off her mind.)

That's the bottom line. Every variation and emotion you're going to go through boil down to this.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

*" She claims nothing physically happened because she had a cold sore. "*

Oh my goodness. That's a good one. So convincing too. Especially when they "just kissed" - where did she kiss if she had a cold sore? 

They had sex. Sorry about it, but they did.

Get ready for immense pain, lies upon lies upon lies and a lot of hard decisions.

My personal opinion is that, without kids, you would be mad to try to patch it up - but that's your call.

You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it. You cannot "nice" your way out of this and, right now, you are not in a position to begin asking questions as she will simply lie to you - she already thinks you are stupid and has no respect for you - who else would come up with that total BS excuse and expect a sane person to believe it?

Insist on the truth, or she gets a divorce. Back this up by giving her papers that you already prepared.

You have to be far more harsh than feels right or fair, but that's because you are playing by different rules to the woman you thought was your wife.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OneConfusedMale said:


> We do not have any kids.


Run Forrest Run!!!

Normally, I'm all about Reconciliation (R) when there are kids involved. But there are none here and she has already poisoned the marriage with her cheating. A lot people here who are in R would tell you that if it wasn't for the children, they would be gone, myself included. 

She's going by the standard cheater script:


Deny, Deny, Deny (DDD)
Trickle Truth (TT) - only a kiss. Seriously? 
Gaslighting - she actually has you convinced that they didn't have sex because she had a cold sore. Seriously? She spent the fracking night at his house for goodness sakes. Only kids sleep over at someone's house. ADULTS spend the night to have sex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

She must invaribly think that you are as dumb as a stump! I'm reading just a whole lot of "trickle-truth" in what she's fastly relating to you, which grossly translates to: "I'm screwing this guys lights out and enjoying every solitary minute of it!~ and my hubby is just clearly buying every single lying denial that I tell him!"

Time to do the 180, see an attorney, and get yourself checked out for the presence of STD's. And I'd furthermore venture that it's beyond high time that you get started before she succeeds in giving you one of her BF's patented "cold sores!"


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

" She claims nothing physically happened because she had a cold sore."

Must have been an extreme one, so basicly she still had the intention of cheating had not been for the cold sore, not the fact that she is married. Sorry that lie is not any better.

You are right you can't forgive what you don't know, unfortunately cheaters will only admit to proof and even then down play it like your wife.
Don't for any reason be weak and forgive her until you know the truth and she is extremely remorseful and takes all the blame. She will cry but most of the time it's because they are caught.

Last, do not take any responsibility she cheated she could have come to you and try to solve her problems with you. Or she could have divorce you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, sorry, she is full of it. They had sex. Kissing is cheatspeak for sex. Plus, you know that's the case. You just can't 'prove' it.

The polygraph is an EXCELLENT idea. Do not back down from this.

STD testing is also a good idea.

A few things:
- Your wife has NO right to privacy any more if she wants to stay married to you. NONE.
- The marriage you had is gone. Dead. Kaput. You cannot save it. All you can do is hope to have a new one with or without your wife.
- You say if SHE decides she wants to stay married. STOP thinking like that right now. It's up to YOU if you want to stay married. She should be falling over herself trying to prove to you she's worth you wiping your feet on her right now!!
- Have a look at the newbie link in my signature. Pay special attention to the terms 'gaslighting' and 'trickle truth'
- Even if she answers all your questions, how are you going to know she's telling the truth?? Because ALL CHEATERS LIE. ALL of them. There are no exceptions to this.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Even if she answers all your questions, how are you going to know she's telling the truth?? Because ALL CHEATERS LIE. ALL of them. There are no exceptions to this.


:iagree:

Most of them can put on *Academy Award winning performances*. They can swear on their children's lives, their parents lives, they can even swear on the Holy Bible. Heck, my own wife proclaimed "God is my witness!" :rofl:


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

OneConfusedMale said:


> ...in November she started seeing a guy behind my back.
> 
> she was only willing to blame me for her cheating on me.
> 
> ...


 Pretend for a moment your best friend has just told you what is written above. What would you advise him? You know the truth, you know what is the best course of action for you. 

She refuses to be honest with you, so you don't even know what you would be forgiving should you decide to stay with her. There is no privacy in a marriage. Why would you want to stay with a women that has so little respect for you? I have NO DOUBT that you will find a much better woman in the future. You would be ill advised to ever trust her ever again.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Why did you relocate?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

No kids? Tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on her way out.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Well obviously she went there for both nights to have sex with him.

Can you accept that and still want to work on the marriage?

She won't tell you the details because she wants to protect the other man.

Are you prepared to expose the affair to their employer? Or to friends and family?

At the point she is choosing him over you, that much is clear. As soon as she hit rid of you on the phone she headed to his house and his bed.

Married women don't spend the night at guys houses that they aren't having sex with.

So now that you know she's having sex with him, what do you plan on doing? Exposure is good to help end the affair. Showing her you will actually refuse to live in a three person marriage and will D her shows your mean business.

Either way you need to operate knowing its a full on physical affair, no doubt about it.


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> Why did you relocate?


She was in a horrible job and could not find another job in the market we lived in.

I am a consultant and I had been working on an engagement for 2 years. My job was filled by someone else when I was out of the office so I had a choice of moving or traveling.

She wanted to move.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> *"Kissing" is cheatspeak for "sex."* Even if she answers all your questions, how are you going to know she's telling the truth?? Because ALL CHEATERS LIE. ALL of them. There are no exceptions to this.


Yeah, that "kissing" that she's so aptly referring to is either of the "genital to genital" or the "mouth to genital" variety!

And with the presence of those "cold sores," I'd greatly have to surmize that she's been bobbing for more than just apples!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

OP - I'm agreeing with the other posters:

Your wife is lying about this. 

.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

She is having sex with him. Further, I find her excuse for not being physical extremely insulting. She didn't say she wasn't physical because she's married or because she wants to work things out with you. She said it was simply because of a cold sore, implying that had she not been inconvenienced by that, she would have been screwing the OM. How disrespectful to you. Get your affairs in order and get ready to leave. She doesn't respect you or care about your feelings.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> OP - I'm agreeing with the other posters:
> 
> Your wife is lying about this.
> 
> .


:iagree:

Infidelity is unlike anyother problem in marriage you have to deal with it differently.

You must be willing to lose the marriage to save it, nothing else works. Dont bug her, interrogate her, get angy, beg, plead.

Its all about consequences, she has betrayed you and is lying to you, being nice wont do it.

Follow the advice you are being given here!

Take care!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You want the truth? Buy two Sony icdpx312 voice activated recorders. Attach heavy duty Velcro to the var and attach it to the bottom of her car seat. Hide the other one wherever she talks in the house.

You will have your answers inside a week or two.

WARNING: if you hear a male arrive in either her car or your home. STOP LISTENING and pass it on to a trusted person to listen to and give you the heads up on what went on. Hearing your wife moan in pleasure while another man is inside her is far far more damaging than just knowing she cheated.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Ok, so your boundaries and mine are not the same and that is fine.

However, if my wife went over a male co-workers home and spent the night and did nothing but watch TV I would divorce her. I would not be concerned what base she went to. She was unfaithful. She spent the night at another man's home. Sorry. Dealbreaker. 

How in the world could it be ok for a wife to spend the night with another man? Totally absurd. 

But indeed your dealbreaker may be PIV sex. Perhaps you will only believe walking in on her riding him. BUT I suspect even if you did your wife would have an excuse.

No kids? GTFO. This is not the woman you were looking for. Work on yourself.

Never ever again decide to live apart from your wife. Duh!?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh and ezoom her car. It's a GPS with maps, plugs into the obd2 port and has a second port on it so you can still use it for the normal function. 100 bucks at radio shack plus 180 a year for the tracking.

Radmu used it with success.

Just do the var thing already. Just heed my warnings about hearing her with another man. 

Devastated dad put an app on his wife's phone that actually turned on the speaker. Unfortunately he heard his wife with another man inside her. Again far far more damaging than just knowing she cheated.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She didn't want to spill the beans, the "What", becasue she's still at it with OM, full force, even going deeper. MC likely knew all the time.
She's a major cake eater. A skilled liar. She's doing this man. NOW. She's probably doing him since November.

Man, if you wants still give her a last shot she must:
- Send a NC contac letter to OM (ask us for templates).
- Being an open bookd regarding comunication devices ans where abouts for now on.
- Give you a full disclosure, stopping the "kisses", cold sore nonsense. I'd demadn her to back up the info with a polygraph.
-STD tests.
- Actively seek help on her own about how to fix what she broke and with you to repair the marriage.

On her back start snooping, play dumb and put in place every home made snooping tool you can: VARs (at least in her car), spyware on the phone, keylogger in the PC... Check ASAP the ohne bill, you will be susrprised about how she never ended it, then you will understand that's why she didn't want to come clean, becasue she's not done with OM, she doesn't want to betray him/throw him under the bus by coming clean.

Find out what's going on.

I'd talk to a lawyer anyway. it doesn't looks good at all, she'd deeply involved with him.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> . . . At the end of the day I don’t want to reflect back 15 or 20 years from now and regret leaving the woman I love.
> 
> A few other facts:
> We have been married for almost 8 years
> ...


Dear OneConfusedMale,

Your user name says it all -- you are one confused dude.

She's cheating, she's not remorseful, she's not doing anything to fix her marriage or to help you and you're worried about how you're going to feel 15 or 20 years from now.

Start thinking about how your going to get through the next couple of years if you stay with someone who has no love or respect for you and who is practically flaunting her adulterous relationship.

Want to know why she won't talk to you about what she's done (or should I say is still doing)? Because she knows that has nothing good to say to you. How can you trust her again? You can't because she's still cheating on and lying to you.

I'm sorry that you're here but you can't do anything about that now. You have no children, you're still young, you're professionally successful so there is no reason to think that you can't do better than to stay with your cheating wife.

You sound like a smart guy. Start thinking with you head instead of your heart. In the end, your heart will thank you for it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh and what Carmen said.

The five cent version. PLEASE STO BEING A DOORMAT!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Until your old lady faces this crap head on and comes out with her bad behavaior and also faces the consequences..of which she has yet to face she will continue.

Maybe not with this but she will continue years from now, cuz she hasn't learned a damn thing from this.

What sucks is that there is a real good chance that she will continue with the same guy (for a while) until she gets tired of it or it gets in the way.

Bottom line you don't know what you really dealing with so please get the VAR and some velcrow and find out what you are really dealing with.


Currently she has little to no respect for you as she continues to try to sweep this under the rug....dude she has your number...she will give you just enough to passify you, cuz at the end of the day you ain't going no were.

I strongly suggest you prove her wrong and have the confidence in letting her go and asking her to leave.

Only then will she even take a second to think about what she is about to lose. Currently she does not have this mind set, currently she believes she can manage you and has yet to think twice about her choice's and the consequence only you can provide.


You will never beable to nice your way through this sh1t. Tough love is your best option.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

she is a Big liar and a big cheater. No respect for you or your marriage. 

Don't be lazy. Get off your duff, drop the excess baggage and find a decent woman who doesn't consider you a schmuck. 

You can try all you want with this one, it'll only bring you heartache. 

Give the OM some pain. Find out what you can about him and expose the affair to his wife or 'real girlfriend'.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Brother, while I wish neither your or my situation was happening I wish I was in your shoes. I have children, and I can't seem to do anything but try and R. I love my children and wouldn't change it for the world, but if it wasn't for them, I would be so ****ing gone man. 

Think long and hard about the road you are thinking about choosing. I don't know what is worse off, knowing, or not knowing and only going on what you are told, that honestly makes no sense. We are all adults. Would you go over to a woman's house while you were married, and spend the night and just kiss? No, we have sex man. That's what happens. 

I still don't have 100%, and I am over a year into this not knowing everything I need to. I don't know why, but I need to. You will feel the same. Not knowing. Not having a blow by blow of every single encounter, how it happened, will eat you alive. I am dying inside. 

You will constantly check emails, Facebook, phone records, take the car to the store and search it real quick. You won't really know what you are looking for, but you will do it. You won't stop. 

These things change the dynamic in a relationship in a way that I have no idea how people here claim they have successfully R'ed through it. 

Think if you really want that life man. After she was found out, she still went back over there. She is still lying. Try will continue to do so. 

I live in my own world, I am now having to take blood pressure meds, I am only in my late 20s, I have children to fake happiness to, and a wife to look at, that we can't even joke without me in the back of my mind thinking about them. It will hit you during the day, at night, at work, mowing the lawn. It won't stop. 

The route she has picked to take this by not giving a **** will destroy you. Please leave. You will find someone better. I know there has to be people out there happy. You can be one of them. It won't be easy, I won't lie to you. But I know it has to be the opposite of sticking around. That right there is worth the gamble of being unhappy for a little while, to be happy and healthy later.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Yeah they had sex 

Sorry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Get tested for std's. Talk to a lawyer to learn your rights. Make decisionas based on what you know, feel, and believe. Trust your gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> The very practical and rational side of me says I should end our marriage and move on with my life.


You should listen to your practical side. Your wife does not love you. No kids. 




> However, I love her and I think part of me is concerned I will not find someone else that will replace what we had together.


This is a very bad reason to stay in the relationship and the exact reason she is having an affair right infront of your face.

Have some self respect. Stop being in denial. They had sex.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

You know everything you need to know.

You know what happened between them.

You know that things will never be the same again between you.

You know what you need to do now.

You're just scared to do it because you don't believe in yourself. You are scared you'll never find another woman like her and will be left sad and lonely for the rest of your life. You won't. 

You are also honest enough to admit your part in the marriage difficulties. But despite what many WS's would like us to think, marriage difficulties and unhappiness don't "force" people to cheat. That's a conscious decision that the cheater makes. You are not responsible for that, no matter what you did wrong in the marriage. After all, you were facing marriage difficulties too, weren't you? And you didn't cheat. 

You would just love it if people here could tell you that she didn't really cheat, or rationalise away her cheating, or tell you that it's all your fault and that the marriage can be repaired if only you change ourself - anything that would tell you that you could stay with her because the alternative is so scary. Sorry, no-one can do that because cheating was her choice - something that you can't control and you can't fix. 

Use this as an opportunity to create the life you want. Learn to believe in yourself (tough, I know) and become the man you want to be, and attract the sort of woman you want to attract. 

I really feel for you because my situation is similar (but with kids thrown in). If I'm brutally honest with myself I am still clinging to my STBXW and fantasies of R (although detaching more and more each day) and a lot of it is due to fear of the future.


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

Thank you for all of the advice. 

When I asked her last night if she wanted to stay married to me she could not answer that question. She said after two or more months she is still trying to figure that out.

When I asked her to take a polygraph test, she asked if I was serious. I said yes and she said she thought it was ridiculous.

I have asked to see her communicate via text message as well and she gets ticked off every time. 

I know what I need to do. I am just sad that I have to do this.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> But indeed your dealbreaker may be PIV sex. Perhaps you will only believe walking in on her riding him. BUT I suspect even if you did your wife would have an excuse.


I SO BADLY wish I somehow saved or tagged that post where a guy walked in on his naked wife climbing down off of a naked man and he bought the "it's not what you think" excuse. At the end of his long post (with a lot more evidence thrown in) he asked...

So, what do you all think? Is she cheating?

:rofl:

It was a classic. And it's lost in the TAM archive for the ages.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry OP. That was over the top. But as much as I HATE to agree with a U of FL graduate, be thankful you didn't have kids with her.
Just leave. You deserve better.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

ConfusedMale,

She had a wellthought out , long time affair.

If she is not sure about staying married to you, did you have marriage then?

How did you come to know of her whereabouts on Friday-Sunday?


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

AngryandUsed said:


> ConfusedMale,
> 
> She had a wellthought out , long time affair.
> 
> ...


GPS


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

File. You can do so much better.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Thank you for all of the advice.
> 
> When I asked her last night if she wanted to stay married to me she could not answer that question. She said after two or more months she is still trying to figure that out.
> 
> ...


She is acting precisely in the way that cheaters do when they are still having an affair, or intend to continue at a later time.

I know this keeps coming up, but if there were kids on the scene it would be worth giving advice on what to do next, but other than for "closure", I don't see the point.

I do feel, however, that encouraging you to reconcile would be wrong of us all.

Good luck. You have to be really strong on this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Go set up a consultation with a lawyer next week and know your legal options.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Been away for a couple days, and I realize this is late in the post. From a medical perspective, Cold sore= no mouth kissing, no BJ for him, which leaves sex as the only option (unless cold sore was actually a herpes outbreak "there", which leaves kissing and BJ as only options. Sorry.


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## NatureDave (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm going to go ahead and be the bad guy here...

Yes, everything the others have posted is true. They had sex. A lot.

The general rule is that the cheater is 100% responsible for going outside the marriage, but the betrayed spouse is often 50% responsible for the state of the marriage at that time.

You, good sir, are responsible for much more than 50%. Your career decision led to you living apart for TWO YEARS! I am recently remarried and neither of us can stand to be apart for two days. My son-in-law just changed jobs from being two weeks away and two weeks back to an office job where he is always home. The couple had to move across the country to make this happen, but their marriage was worth it. Living separately is devastating to a marriage.

And then, when you wife would visit on weekends you would spend 8-10 hours a day playing video games??

She told time and again she felt abandoned, that you needed marriage counseling. Your response? We can handle this and then you'd keep doing the same.

Your wife has checked out. A lot of affairs cloud the thinking of the wayward and they start rewriting history of how bad things were before the affair. This is not your wife, She was checked out far before the affair. She cried out for help and there was no answer.

You have no kids, and she emotionally detached long ago. Do the right thing and let her go...

Maybe you both can learn from this on how to create and care for a mutually loving and satisfying relationship for anyone you may meet in the future.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

NatureDave said:


> I'm going to go ahead and be the bad guy here...
> 
> Yes, everything the others have posted is true. They had sex. A lot.
> 
> ...


I feel the need to chime in. Two years is a long time to A) not find a job at least a job that would cover some expenses while she could find a job that put you in the black.

She was okay with the move. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this probably is not her first affair. I bet if you went back you would see that she was likely prolonging her stay in order to pursue a previous affair. If she wanted to be with you bad enough she would have made something happen. 

The reason i say this is because she is acting like a serial cheater. Most first time cheaters have guilt and remorse and are torn. These emotion don't exist in your wife's case. so I deduce that this is likely not her first affair. Now I am going to tell you something you are not going to like. You are prolonging this affair.

You both messed up in living apart. Also you never really checked into your wife while she was alone for two years. So you pretty much gave her free reign with no oversight.

Now that she is caught you haven't set down the ground rules. You still believe this woman wouldn't lie to you even though she has betrayed you. You are allowing her to manipulate you into having an open marriage. Stop listening to her [email protected]#$! and start laying down boundaries. You need to start divorce proceedings until she 
a) breaks off contact and commits to no contact with this OM until the day your marriage ends or one of you dies.
b) Unlimited unfettered access to all of her email, phone, and other forms of communication.
c) she owns the fact that she cheated and that it is her fault she cheated. You both were living alone you both were suffering. You on the other hand did not cheat. You waited two years to have your wife back in your life. 

Her arguments lack merit. IF you truly did abandon her you would have divorced her. You didn't. If you didn't care about her you would have cheated on her. You didn't. Now apply the same logic to your wife. And see the outcome.

You wife is using you. And you need to stop letting this woman treat you as if you didn't matter you are her HUSBAND act like it. Stop letting her run around. Stop letting her justify her behavior because there is not justification for cheating.

You need to look up the 180 and apply it to your life. You need to start looking at what you need and want from your marriage. and stand up for yourself. WHERE IS YOUR ANGER that your wife is totally screwing you over and doesn't give two cents about you or how you feel about it?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

NatureDave said:


> I'm going to go ahead and be the bad guy here...
> 
> Yes, everything the others have posted is true. They had sex. A lot.
> 
> ...


What you seem to be saying, NatureDave, is that the spouse chose to cheat and it was her choice, but really it was his fault.

You are, of course, wrong, but entitled to hold an incorrect view.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Thank you for all of the advice.
> 
> When I asked her last night if she wanted to stay married to me she could not answer that question. She said after two or more months she is still trying to figure that out.
> 
> ...


While you are following some of the specific advice you've been given here (which puts you ahead of most new posters), methinks your execution and delivery when dealing with your W is probably off the mark. The fear of repercussions is evident. Stop that. If you trust that you're acting in your own interest, it's really quite easy to let go of that fear.

Don't ask her for the information and don't ask her to do things (poly). Tell her. Not because you want to be overbearing, but realize that each time you've "requested" these things that are very important to you, she has shrugged you off...almost shooed you away like a pet. If she does not see the value in complying, then tell her that's unacceptable to you and walk away.

The dynamic between you two is very damaged. She very clearly holds more sway than you at the moment, and sees her options elsewhere to be much preferred to staying with you.

Regardless what you've done wrong (living apart sucks, especially without a guaranteed end in sight), she has now proven herself not worthy of your commitment. Her vows are in the trashbin, and she doesn't give a crap about what that's doing to you. So accept your failings, change them for the future, but don't accept her epic fail as something you can wait out and "maybe she'll come back". We know how you feel...hard to say "she's gone". But it sounds like she is.

File for divorce. Tell her to go be happy. Do the 180 and work on yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

FLGator said:


> Brother, while I wish neither your or my situation was happening I wish I was in your shoes. I have children, and I can't seem to do anything but try and R. I love my children and wouldn't change it for the world, but if it wasn't for them, I would be so ****ing gone man.
> 
> Think long and hard about the road you are thinking about choosing. I don't know what is worse off, knowing, or not knowing and only going on what you are told, that honestly makes no sense. We are all adults. Would you go over to a woman's house while you were married, and spend the night and just kiss? No, we have sex man. That's what happens.
> 
> ...


Dear FLGator,

What a sad but great post. It should be saved and sent to all betrayed spouses who don't have kids and who are contemplating reconciling with their WSs. It says it all.

Wishing you well in very difficult circumstances.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

NatureDave said:


> Your wife has checked out. A lot of affairs cloud the thinking of the wayward and they start rewriting history of how bad things were before the affair. This is not your wife, She was checked out far before the affair. She cried out for help and there was no answer.I
> 
> You have no kids, and she emotionally detached long ago. Do the right thing and let her go...
> 
> Maybe you both can learn from this on how to create and care for a mutually loving and satisfying relationship for anyone you may meet in the future.


^^this^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

Shamwow said:


> While you are following some of the specific advice you've been given here (which puts you ahead of most new posters), methinks your execution and delivery when dealing with your W is probably off the mark. The fear of repercussions is evident. Stop that. If you trust that you're acting in your own interest, it's really quite easy to let go of that fear.
> 
> Don't ask her for the information and don't ask her to do things (poly). Tell her. Not because you want to be overbearing, but realize that each time you've "requested" these things that are very important to you, she has shrugged you off...almost shooed you away like a pet. If she does not see the value in complying, then tell her that's unacceptable to you and walk away.
> 
> ...



I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight. 

I am angry and very ticked off.

Let me know if there is anything I should add. 

Sorry about the formatting MS word to forums never formats well.

1)	You must take and pass a polygraph test
2)	You must take and pass an STD test.
a.	You must have the lab send a copy of the results directly to me at my office 
3)	You must give me your old phone and password and new phone and password and let me read all text messages between the two of you.
4)	You must let me run recovery software on both your current and old iphone.
5)	You must also let me read through all of your inbox and sent items in your personal email. 
6)	You must provide me access to your AT&T account so I can track who you are talking to and when.
7)	You must agree to never speak to him again
8)	You must tell your boss what happened and he will send me an email to my personal account to verify that you have explained the situation. You will also let him know that you cannot work on any projects with that person ever again. 
9)	Each and every time you travel for work your boss needs to send me an email telling me who from your company is attending the trip
10)	You are to turn the location setting on your phone back on and provide me with the password to your account so I can track your location online
11)	Your car will be searched on a weekly basis but on random days. If I find a second phone we are done.
12)	You must send a No Contact letter to this other guy. I can provide a sample of what must be sent.
13)	You must start looking for another job. If you get another offer you must take it.
14)	If I take another job out of town you must follow. We will not live apart again.
15)	Your purse/work bags, etc will be searched on a daily basis to make sure you have no contact with this other party
16)	If he attempts to contact you in any way you must let me know within 10 minutes of it happening. 
17)	You must give me access to your Facebook or any other social media sites you belong to.


I have already consulted an attorney, when I originally found out about the other relationship. I will call and have the paper work started on Monday morning. She is a stubborn and prideful person she will not do any of these on the list.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If she says no have her served at work. Be cool, calm and dispassionate no emotion.


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## KVR (Feb 18, 2013)

I am sorry, but why do you even bother? Do you really want to live like this for the rest of your marriage? Based on what you wrote, she has no love left for you. You have no kid. Just file.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight.
> 
> I am angry and very ticked off.
> 
> ...


It's a good list, although if you let her know you are looking at everything she will simply take things underground; for example telling her you will search her bag every day is pointless. She knows in advance, so anything that might have been kept there will end up somewhere else.

Be prepared to go through the list and for her to say "no" with a very entitled and self righteous attitude.

I think you might be better telling her:

1) Do not ever contact the OM again.

2) I divorce you starting Monday.

3) We can talk about the rest if you do number 1 - but not until the divorce is underway.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> It's a good list, although if you let her know you are looking at everything she will simply take things underground; for example telling her you will search her bag every day is pointless. She knows in advance, so anything that might have been kept there will end up somewhere else.
> 
> Be prepared to go through the list and for her to say "no" with a very entitled and self righteous attitude.
> 
> ...


I think this is the best approach.

Also, consider *KVR*'s question: "Do you really want to live like this?"

Sometimes, sadly, divorce IS the best option.

.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

No kids... Cut your losses! No need for the laundry list of demands that you know she won't accept. Even if she did and you reconcile, she's already been soiled by the OM. Understand that you can never again have the pristine relationship you once had.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight.
> 
> I am angry and very ticked off.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry about this one. She needs to send you the email. Getting her boss involved is not going to help you or her and it isn't likely going to happen. So if you can't deal with your wife travelling with men then she needs to look for a job elsewhere.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> No, I don't think he is saying that and I agree with his assessment. The wife was 100% wrong by having the affair. However, if she would have formally stated that she's divorcing the OP because he neglected her, and because of that she fell out of love, and then found another man while they were working thru their divorce - she would be the sympathetic character here and we'd be flaying the OP for being a horses ass for the way he treated his marriage. Well, just because the wife had a huge lax in morals and elected to cheat but stay married, it still doesn't excuse the OP from being the horses ass and an idiot for how he treated his marriage.
> 
> Again, the wife is 100% responsible for the affair, but the OP did plenty of things to ENABLE the affair from happening in the first place. It's called owning your sh!t, and the OP needs to own his.


Either:

The poor state of the marriage was somehow to "blame" for the affair.

or:

It wasn't.

Both "good" and "bad" marriages suffer from infidelity. You and the other chap are drawing a direct line between the supposed state of the marriage_* in your eyes*_ and the affair - albeit with a brief pause to mention that his wife made a choice. 

You are saying that that choice was only made because of the state of the marriage. This is incorrect.

You may as well say that the choice was made because he didn't come home that weekend or because he didn't buy her an expensive whatever as that would have kept her occupied and not seeking - however immorally - her fun elsewhere.

What you seem to be wilfully ignoring is that, if you draw any sort of line between the marriage and this outcome, you are "blaming" the betrayed. This is factually wrong and the product of weak thinking.

For example, my ex wife specifically identified the moment she decided to have an affair with the om (although she probably does not have the insight to realise this). She saw his long term girlfriend getting out of a car when picking him up, realised the OM's GF wasn't very good looking and that my ex wife therefore had a good shot at taking the posom away from his "ugly" GF.

Now, whose fault is that? Mine for having a poor marriage (we didn't, but I am sure she would have told you we did), the OM's for being picked up, the OM's GF for not sending a taxi? The OM's GF for not putting make up on?

Obviously that would be a ridiculous line of thought, but that is where it leads you if you attempt to connect any other person's behaviour, or lack thereof, with a decision to cheat.

There is no link and it has nothing to do with "owning your sh1t". 

Cheating is cheating, bad decision within a marriage are bad decisions within a marriage. They are not connected other than in the minds of those who want to deflect blame from the cheaters.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Chris989 said:


> It's a good list, although if you let her know you are looking at everything she will simply take things underground; for example telling her you will search her bag every day is pointless. She knows in advance, so anything that might have been kept there will end up somewhere else.
> 
> Be prepared to go through the list and for her to say "no" with a very entitled and self righteous attitude.
> 
> ...


AGREED. Yes, those are things that you would be fine to demand if she agrees to NC and begs you for a chance to R. Barring that (which you yourself seem sure isn't going to happen), if you lay all those out separately she'll laugh you out of the room.

She sounds a bit like my xw, is probably feeling very smart and in control of her life because she has multiple men pursuing her. The point of making your demands is to wrest that control directly back into your hands.

Tell her you have to talk, and not to interrupt you until you're done, and then you'll listen to her. (if she cuts you off or gives you smart ass comments, just stay calm, say nothing and wait a few seconds, no response to the crap, just continue). Just state that you very much want your marriage to work, but what she is doing has made that impossible for you. You won't share your wife with anyone else, and because of this you will be divorcing her immediately unless she agrees to NC this second. If she expresses interest in R then state your conditions, but keep it more along the lines of "there will be no privacy or secrecy between us, none. That means you show me everything, and vice versa."

If she says "screw you, gimme the papers"... Then do it right away, and resist the urge to accompany them with another plea for her to reconsider. She wants it over? Move on, sir. Life is much better than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

At the risk of beating a dead horse here...

First, I'm a cheater - so is my stbxw.
Married 24 years. Kids all grown and moved away.

I emotionally detached from her about five years ago and began an affair which remained undiscovered.

About two years ago - my W began an affair.

I had ended my A several months before I discovered her A in Sept 2012. Shortly thereafter, I admitted to my LTAffair.

I accept 100% that my detachment motivated her looking outside the marriage for the emotional support she wasn't receiving from me. 

I want to reconcile, she does not, so we are divorcing. Since there are no kids involved, it is probably the best decision.

So, regarding the disagreement between *Chris989* and *Plan 9 from OS*...who is at fault in the above scenario?

Obviously, we both made terrible choices, but can you really put the blame squarely on one or the other? I don't think so.



> Originally Posted by *Chris989*
> Now, whose fault is that? Mine for having a poor marriage (*we didn't*, but I am sure she would have told you we did)


Seriously not trying to stir up a conflict, Chris, but with all due respect, this is only your opinion. 

.

.


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

I know I screwed up and I share a great part of the responsibility for the current state of our marriage. Did I make a big mistake yes. I however still supported her both financially and emotionally. 

Let me make one thing clear. It was her idea to relocate not mine. I had another job offer locally but she had no interest in living there. I was able to leverage the other offer into relocating with my current company. This was at a time where the housing market was deeply depressed and she saw this as an opportunity to cut our losses on our current house. The losses turned out to be way larger than expected which created the financial requirement that she keep her job.

She did apply for jobs here both full time professional jobs and even jobs at Costco or Target. However, the lower paying retail jobs don't seem to like to hire people with Masters/Graduate level education. 

I regret moving she does not regret moving.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

old timer said:


> Seriously not trying to stir up a conflict, Chris, but with all due respect, this is only your opinion.


<sigh>

You are wrong. You also have a certain perspective shall we say. I'm going to leave it at that.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> <sigh>
> 
> You are wrong. You also have a certain perspective shall we say. I'm going to leave it at that.


Fair enough.

Are you still living with your ex-wife?

.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

old timer said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Are you still living with your ex-wife?
> 
> .


For now, yes. She is desperate to reconcile.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I did nothing to make my wife cheat on me. And she told me that, herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

confused,

It's not so much that most of your demands aren't reasonable (though I believe a couple of them need to be taken out), but now is not the right timing to read the 10 commandments to her.

I couldn't agree more with the poster that said for now, you only need to get initial agreement from her on no contact and transparency. No need to get into the rest of that yet. It will only ensure that she bows up on you. Take one step at a time. In the unlikely event that she agrees to those two things, then you'll have a starting point.

Your approach and mindset should be the same. You are preparing for D, and you will keep heading that way until she gives you reason to consider "postponing" it. That first "reason" would be the basic agreement to no contact and transparency. 

If she does agree, break it down simply for her on what that looks like, but don't overwhelm her. 

But, when she flinches, and she will; do the 180 on her and continue with the D. Watch what she does. Two things have to occur for you to have a chance at R.

1 -She has to fear divorce.

2 -You can't fear divorce.

If you reach that point, then you may start to see some remorse, and can then start to give her more and more of the details.


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## mg2977 (Mar 20, 2013)

As everyone else has told you, she is having sex with OM and she has been doing it for a while. She is in deep with OM. Anything that comes out of her mouth is a lie - including the cold sore excuse.

Oh and her statement she does not know if she wants the marriage anymore - she does not want the marriage, she only wants OM. I got that same line (among many others when I wanted to work on my marriage). Also be prepared for the many other lines you will hear from her "I love you but am not in love with you", you are too controlling, etc., etc.

So get to the doctor for STD tests and any anxiety meds you may need now or in the near future (this is a long and lousy road on which you are now driving, so even if you feel ok right now, that may not always be the case).

Separate finances. Hopefully you are the bread winner bc then she will really feel the sting, as she will not have your money to rely on and let's see if OM is so generous.

Do you want to expose the affair? I would.

File for D (do not even tell her) and have her served at work. 

Once you file and serve her D papers, then go dark - complete 180. You have no use or need for her anymore, only talk of living arrangements and financial issues. 

However if you do sit down to talk with her and give her your boundaries and she refuses bc she wants to be with other man, then tell her to go to him, move in with him whatever. Just "Let Her Go".


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight.
> 
> 
> .....I have already consulted an attorney, when I originally found out about the other relationship. I will call and have the paper work started on Monday morning. She is a stubborn and prideful person she will not do any of these on the list.


Dont give her this list until AFTER you serve her the divorce papers. You have not put the fear of divorce in her yet. She is going to laugh and then take that list and wipe herself with it after she pees. 

Have her served first...maybe that will shock her out of the fog. If it doesn't, and the divorce papers don't bother her, then the list will be useless anyway.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight.
> 
> I am angry and very ticked off.
> 
> ...


Your demands are OK. She should quit the job, forget all the stuff about the boss letting you know. But is she continues to work there, the demands are fine, but that alone might get her fired.

She should block the other guy on facebook and change her phone number.

Do not give any ultimatum you are not ready to keep.

Based on what you've posted, she looks at you as somewhat of an easygoing nice-guy doormat and she will NOT back down to you on the initial confrontation. Be prepared. She is NOT going to agree to those demands - you have overlooked far too much of her inappropriate behavior and she thinks you are desparate to keep her; she certainly wouldn't have tolerated your behaving as she did, she would have left you already.

So, she is not going to agree to your demands. She will laugh in your face. She might cry. She might call you names. She will blame you. She will want to be the victim.

After you file for divorce, THAT is when I would expect her to begin to take you seriously. When you make the demands you listed above, she will tell you how ridiculous they are and tell you no way. AFTER you file, she will give them some consideration.

She is deeply in love with this other man. She spent the whole weekend with him. Even if she agrees to your demands, you can expect her to remain in contact somehow. You will catch her, but she will try.

Here are a few catchphrases to use when you talk to her:

When she accuses you of being controlling: I can't control you, I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in a marriage. And I am not willing to accept a wife who stays the whole weekend with another man, hides her communications, and lies to me. You have destroyed my trust and this is what I need to help rebuild it.

When she says she has a right to privacy: Privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy; and there is no place for secrecy in a marriage.

You should preface your confrontation by telling her you love her and want to improve yourself and improve your marriage, but you cannot stay in a marriage where she is cheating on you and lying to you.

If she insists on denying the affair, ask her what would your family and friends think if you told them the facts - the amount of texting, the staying the whole weekend at the other man's house? Would they think the other man and her were just talking, or something more? And what would they think if they found out she refused to give up communicating with the other man at the expense of your marriage?

Stay calm and cool. Do not argue. Just tell her that the current state of your marriage is unacceptable and this is what you need to move forward. All you are asking for is honesty and openness so that you can rebuild your trust. You will not have to monitor her forever, but many if not most happily married couples have NEVER kept secret passwords, locked their phones, or deleted texts. What possibly could be said that she doesn't want you to see? It is a marriage between YOU and HER, not other man, so she should be talking to you about the marriage, not other man.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Dont give her this list until AFTER you serve her the divorce papers. You have not put the fear of divorce in her yet. She is going to laugh and then take that list and wipe herself with it after she pees.
> 
> Have her served first...maybe that will shock her out of the fog. If it doesn't, and the divorce papers don't bother her, then the list will be useless anyway.


You could save yourself a lot of aggravation with this approach.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Thank you for all of the advice.
> *
> When I asked her last night if she wanted to stay married to me she could not answer that question. She said after two or more months she is still trying to figure that out.*
> 
> ...


She wants to stay married to you until she can figure out whether or not other man is better for her than you. I'm guessing that you offer something that he does not, a lot more money, a better lifestyle, if she leaves you for him she will be known as a cheater to her friends/family.

That's why she is sticking to the "he's helping me with my marriage" story. After she leaves you, then she will say, "he helped me through it and our friendship blossomed into romance" and she thinks no one will see through it and somehow everyone will accept him as your replacement.

There is a reason she has not left you for him: 
1-some guilt/feelings for you - not too much based on how she is acting; 
2-afraid of being known as a cheater - good chance; 
3-he is not ready to take her on yet - this is the most likely reason, along with 
4-you provide a nice lifestyle and have many traits she likes, other man would be a step down in many ways, but she has hots for him.

What reason does she have?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I plan on given her the following list of demands tonight.
> 
> I am angry and very ticked off.
> 
> ...


She needs to own the affair for sure. And you need firm boundaries. But the way this was presented comes off as a tad hurtful. You could add that she must consent to a full strip search when she comes home. I am only suggesting that rather than being so specific that you generalize transparency and then under that give examples. This protects you because you may decide you need to do something else you did not list.

She will have to go through withdrawal. If she can run into him at work or is emailing home at work she is not NC. This is why she needs a new job before she can really start.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She will probably laugh it off and call you controlling if you give her the list now.

Stay calm during the whole thing. Start the 180 and start focusing on yourself. give her the papers and let her do the talking she wants to. Keep control of your anger and emotions.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

i agree with the GREAT SHAMWOW!!!!!! and multiple others her dont give her a list just say i will file for D monday and you can be happy with OM. MAKE HER come to you to save the marriage


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I know I screwed up and I share a great part of the responsibility for the current state of our marriage. Did I make a big mistake yes. I however still supported her both financially and emotionally.
> 
> I regret moving she does not regret moving.


That to me says a WHOLE lot. You have regrets, and she has stated she does not regret that... (IMHO) Bells and alarms should be going off inside your head. You both took vows. You both have made mistakes, but an affair is not a simple mistake. You need to be willing to lose you marriage to save yourself. I just do not see this situation being healthy right now. Good Luck.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

terrence4159 said:


> i agree with the GREAT SHAMWOW!!!!!! and multiple others her dont give her a list just say i will file for D monday and you can be happy with OM. MAKE HER come to you to save the marriage


And don't forget to send an email out to her family about why you filed for divorce.

It is never to late to expose.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Why is it that I'm the one that seeing this a little differently than most everyone else? Regardless of whose idea it was, who in their right minds would voluntarily separate for 2 years? And during this entire 2 years they only saw each other on weekend - and it wasn't even every weekend. Now during these weekends, the OP blew his wife off regularly by retreating into his world of video games and other hobbies. She approached him numerous times and he blew her off. Seriously, who in their right mind would separate like this and on top of that neglect his wife during the little time they did have together in spite of her numerous objections?
> 
> Look, I'm not defending her decision to cheat. It's indefensible. But I will say that she checked out of this marriage based on what the OP did. If she would have told him that she was divorcing him, started the ball rolling and then found a guy - she'd be perfectly in the right and people would be ridiculing the OP. However, since she elected to check out in a bad way, she's being given all of the blame while the OP is looked at as the sympathetic character.
> 
> I think both of them share a lot of blame together about why they are divorcing. What she did was inexcusable. But what he did with the neglect and the stupidity to make the move to separate as opposed to putting his foot down and stopping this chain of events is all on him. Because not only did he go ahead and move - without determining the true value of their home (who in their right mind would not check to realistically determine how far underwater they were on their home?????) - he acted like a bachelor and neglected his wife during this time. I'm sorry, but putting ALL of this on her for why they are divorcing is ludicrous. He bears much of the blame, and if she would have simply done this: say she wants a divorce, slap together a hastily put together divorce decree without a lawyer and THEN shacked up with her OM, everyone would put the majority of the failure on the OP. Because of that, I can't see how he can expose her cheating and point her out as the sole cause for this divorce.


You are, yet again, linking the state of the marriage with the decision to cheat. The OP is only here because of her cheating, not because of the state of his marriage.

Perhaps you don't believe in marriage?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Plan9
I agree he was wrong in many places. But she could have divorced him. She could have been honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Plan9
> I agree he was wrong in many places. But she could have divorced him. She could have been honest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

This is no different than being in the military where the service member has to go on a remote tour, or has to take an unaccompanied tour. FWIW, I had to take an unaccompanied tour my last 2 years in the service because I was given orders to be stationed in another city, but because we had put down roots in another city (her career, house, eldest in high school), it was decided that I would have to go unaccompanied. This happens often in the military.

The fortunate thing was my new base, Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, was within driving distance of my home, so I could only drive home every other weekend or once a month. It was difficult, but at least my fWW stayed faithful during that time, which is one of the reasons why I gave her a shot at R.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Plan9
> I agree he was wrong in many places. But she could have divorced him. She could have been honest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Saved me the effort. Thanks.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree with you. Part of the point that I was trying to make was that if she would have done that up front and we heard this same story, most of us would be all over the OP telling him where it all went wrong. The cause and effect relationship in this is clear, she simply chose to disengage in a wrong way. The issue I see in this thread is that no one is really calling the OP out for what he did. Admittedly, I read it all but quickly and I may have missed it. I see 2 wrongs here. He pushed her away enough that she gave up on the marriage. But the way she went about throwing in the towel was wrong.


Perhaps, then, you mistunderstood the OP's questions. Leaving aside the fact, now stated twice, that the OP did not want to move for his job, but his wife insisted:

*The OP did not come here to ask for a critique on how he got here*, or what "mistakes" he made. He asked for help with the question of infidelity in his marriage.

*Your input helps him not one jot* and further clouds the non-issue of cause and effect. What he is going through and about to go through is a very bad place indeed and I would suggest just about the last thing he needs is somebody whom _cannot even be bothered to read his original post _and subsequent replies, giving him "advice" on his past "mistakes" (which, I restate, you are mistaken about on a number of levels).

Maybe we should direct him to another website for that part; "arandomguyontheinternetreckonsyoumadeyourmarriagesuckandnowyourwifeischeatingitsyourfault.com"


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You are wrong plan9. Totally wrong. I've said my piece.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Now that we're past this debate, do you have any updates, OP?

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

old timer said:


> Now that we're past this debate, do you have any updates, OP?
> 
> .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Busy week at work.

I gave her the first half of the list this weekend. No contact, transparency and told her to start looking for a new job. She is thinking about the list and said she wanted to discuss it with her counselor tomorrow.

I really don't like that her counselor has such a large influence over our relationship but at this point I am not really sure what to do about that. Now if she is just getting an opinion on if my request is reasonable for a spouse that cheated I am okay with that. I would expect any counselor to say that the list is more than reasonable given the circumstances. 

I shared the second half of the list (polygraph, STD test, post nuptial agreement) today because she requested knowing everything to have a more productive discussion in her session tomorrow. 

I am a pretty smart guy. This is not why she is talking to her counselor. She is trying to figure out a way to tell me that she does not need to do these things. At which point I am prepared to end the relationship. 

I am sure she is concerned about the polygraph test. She knows she has lied and has continued to lie and is about to be caught. 

If she wanted the relationship to work the answer should have been yes right away. Her stalling says a lot about what her decision will be. 

I will update as I know more.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> If she wanted the relationship to work the answer should have been yes right away. Her stalling says a lot about what her decision will be.
> 
> I will update as I know more.


Exactly. Pausing for anything more than 10 seconds for this is so far from remorse it shows she feels no respect for you. I think she has contempt for you.

She is "thinking" about no contact with another man?

She has to "consider her options" about keeping you?

Your choice obviously, but you are being taken for a ride in the cake eating bus. Hope you enjoy it.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Busy week at work.
> 
> I gave her the first half of the list this weekend. No contact, transparency and told her to start looking for a new job. She is thinking about the list and said she wanted to discuss it with her counselor tomorrow.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Stay true to this if she backs out of even one of these you need to walk. She has to do the fighting for the relationship if she does not it will be hollow. Good luck.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Busy week at work.
> 
> I gave her the first half of the list this weekend. No contact, transparency and told her to start looking for a new job. She is thinking about the list and said she wanted to discuss it with her counselor tomorrow.
> 
> ...


You seem like you have a good grip on it. The only thing I would advise is to set a deadline. Without a deadline, she will postpone, then postpone some more, then postpone again. She will talk to you after she sees the counselor, she will tell you the counselor disagrees with this, that, or the other thing, or doesn't think this is necessary, or that a relationship won't work without trust, then tell you she will readdress it with you again after she sees the counselor again in another two weeks.

She will try to wear you down, delay doing what you need, try to water them down. Tell her you need an answer by Saturday night.

Actually, I suggest giving her one minute to decide to give you whatever you need from her to get over this, or you end it. Tell her right now you need an answer right now. After all the time you have invested in each other, the vows you took in front of God, family, and friends, the ups and downs, the good times and bad, that you've been through together, if she isn't ready to throw this other dude overboard and commit to you fully and immediately, to me that is even worse than the cheating itself. If after all this time with you she even has a question about you vs. him, who all she has done is fvck with, then F her. Being ALONE is better than being with someone like that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Will_Kane said:


> You seem like you have a good grip on it. The only thing I would advise is to set a deadline. Without a deadline, she will postpone, then postpone some more, then postpone again. She will talk to you after she sees the counselor, she will tell you the counselor disagrees with this, that, or the other thing, or doesn't think this is necessary, or that a relationship won't work without trust, then tell you she will readdress it with you again after she sees the counselor again in another two weeks.
> 
> She will try to wear you down, delay doing what you need, try to water them down. Tell her you need an answer by Saturday night.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I was going to post something along those lines. This is *pure manipulation*.


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## creative (Apr 23, 2013)

Like what others have said, she definately had sex with him. From my experience I've used those lies before (only kissing). I say buddy, don't deny what you all ready what's going on. She's lieing to you and it's not ok. As reality bites hard, there are incredible woman who would love you in your whole entirety. Don't look at the numbers of your past...look at your present & create a new future with a new wife. I think it's crossed I've to beyond working it out.


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> Actually, I suggest giving her one minute to decide to give you whatever you need from her to get over this, or you end it. Tell her right now you need an answer right now. After all the time you have invested in each other, the vows you took in front of God, family, and friends, the ups and downs, the good times and bad, that you've been through together, if she isn't ready to throw this other dude overboard and commit to you fully and immediately, to me that is even worse than the cheating itself. If after all this time with you she even has a question about you vs. him, who all she has done is fvck with, then F her. Being ALONE is better than being with someone like that.


This is what I don't get. After I confronted her about this OM, I told her to start talking or start walking out the door. 

She started talking. After we talked it took me all of 5 minutes at most to decided that if she would come clean and stop seeing this guy that I wanted things to work out. 

She has been delaying ever since. It is pretty clear to me that she has decided to move on she just has not figured out how she can move on financially. 

I provide the financial security she does not have on her own and it is pretty clear that without me she cannot maintain her standard of high class living.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> This is what I don't get. After I confronted her about this OM, I told her to start talking or start walking out the door.
> 
> She started talking. After we talked it took me all of 5 minutes at most to decided that if she would come clean and stop seeing this guy that I wanted things to work out.
> 
> ...


Time to separate finances maybe that will snap her out of fantasyland. If nothing else it will show her you are not putting up with this anymore.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> This is what I don't get. After I confronted her about this OM, I told her to start talking or start walking out the door.
> 
> She started talking. After we talked it took me all of 5 minutes at most to decided that if she would come clean and stop seeing this guy that I wanted things to work out.
> 
> ...


So how long will you carry her?


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## OneConfusedMale (May 2, 2013)

I am going to bring the finances up this weekend. I already moved all my money to a separate account and we have never had joint credit cards. 

I stopped paying for stuff. We went to the store last weekend and I bought stuff and she bought stuff. 

I did not even have to ask her to do it which also sends a pretty clear message.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

OneConfusedMale said:


> I am going to bring the finances up this weekend. I already moved all my money to a separate account and we have never had joint credit cards.
> 
> I stopped paying for stuff. We went to the store last weekend and I bought stuff and she bought stuff.
> 
> I did not even have to ask her to do it which also sends a pretty clear message.


Looks like you're ahead of the game on lots of things, except the bit where you file for divorce and kick her disrespectful arse out of the door. You don't have a marriage; you have a lodger that acts as though she hates your guts. Her contempt is jaw dropping.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

NICE comback from kinda wishy washy to man in charge.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

She is stalling and talking to the other man looking for an exit strategy that she can go with. Push her hard on getting D and all things settled I would not let her dictate any kind of timetable you see each other every day why wait just make a list of stuff and hit her with it. If she waffles then say okay I guess I will talk the attorney and we can settle in mediation. If she is holding out on you why wait for a good time for her to talk about finanaces? Good luck my hopes are with you.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Please just file! She has zero remorse and you are being played. If she does make a sincere attempt to reconcile, you can always stop the proceedings. She is laughing at your list and you appear to be a door mat and a piggy bank..


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

OneConfusedMale said:


> Busy week at work.
> 
> I *gave her the first half of the list this weekend. No contact, transparency and told her to start looking for a new job*. She is thinking about the list and said* she wanted to discuss it with her counselor tomorrow.*
> 
> ...


What is there to discuss?

No contact should be IMMEDIATE.
Transparency should be a given but also IMMEDIATE
Quitting the job, yes hard but she should be discussing that with you.

Two out of three should have been a given yesterday, if she wanted R honestly then she would have done it.

The fact you asked for these, and she still hasn't committed would be a massive red flag...make that 3 massive red flags.
She still has no respect for you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

OneConfusedMale said:


> This is what I don't get. After I confronted her about this OM, I told her to start talking or start walking out the door.
> 
> She started talking. After we talked it took me all of 5 minutes at most to decided that if she would come clean and stop seeing this guy that I wanted things to work out.
> 
> ...


You told her to walk...she's still there

It took you five minutes to decide if she came clean you would work on it...yet she still hasn't come clean.

You gave her a list of demands...which weren't met

You going to talk on the weekend...

You see a pattern here...you say something..it doesn't happen because you don't make it happen. You never follow through with what you say. You talk a good half game


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

KanDo said:


> Please just file! She has zero remorse and you are being played. If she does make a sincere attempt to reconcile, you can always stop the proceedings. She is laughing at your list and you appear to be a door mat and a piggy bank..


:iagree::iagree::iagree: This she does not want to be in your marriage. I will tell you this right now you deserve better you may want her right now but that is not what you deserve and can get. You deserve to have someone you can trust and love not someone who treats you like crap. When you married if you had known she was going to have an affair would you of gone through with it? Yeah that is what I thought. Move on to a better women no remorse equals going to cheat and all in it for herself. Would you of married a women like that? FILE the PAPERS. Now it is all about you because you no longer have a partner time to watch out for yourself and your life. FILE.


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