# Should I Cheat



## netaw (Aug 21, 2008)

When we began our relationship 5 years ago, i told my wife that i'm very sexual and have a high drive. She seemed to love that and we were together all the time. We were married 2 years ago, and as time goes by, she now tells me that she is and has never been turned on prior to sex. When we have sex she is turned on, but she doesn't get into the mood. She just enjoys it when we have sex. She is multiorgasmic and what you call a squirter. She seems to really enjoy it. I however, last a long time, and usually only get to have an orgasm every 3rd to 4th time we have sex. She has slowed down how much we have sex to maybe 1 or twice a week. So, i go easily a week or two having sex a few times but not getting off. Various excuses, i'm sore, i'm tired, whatever. I ask why don't you do something else to get me off, she says i don't know, but ultimately seem to have no real interest in getting me off. 
I'm honestly tired of it. I love her and i believe she loves me, but even after seeing a therapist this is not getting better. 
I am ready to cheat but i don't want to give her up and the love we have. To me like most guys it's a very physical need. Should I cheat? Otherwise, i feel like as far as sex goes, i might as well just cut my penis off for all the good it's really doing me. 
Any Advice?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Don't cheat, work on your communication skills.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

You sound like me. Sex is important to me. If I could not get my woman to be enthusiastic, I would leave, not cheat.

However, there is a lot you can do to get her more interested. Like talk about it with her. Also, the main reason women go off sex is resentment, so you need to really go over the relationship with a fine tooth comb and see if anything you are doing is helping her to build up resentment. Also, is she stressed.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

netaw said:


> Should I cheat? Otherwise, i feel like as far as sex goes, i might as well just cut my penis off for all the good it's really doing me.
> Any Advice?


Don't cheat, don't cut off your penis.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree:


netaw said:


> she now tells me that she is and has never been turned on prior to sex.


I don't think this is uncommon for women at all. It's just not something that is typically on our minds unless we are in the midst of it. There are things you can try here by 'planting the seed'. Sending her little messages throughout the day or week (could be one short note about what you are thinking about doing later or anticipation build up...leave a little outfit with a note attached one day, stockings the next day, etc. I'm not suggesting all the time but a once in a while thing to get her mind going there at different times of the day/week. If it's overdone, it may come off that it's all you are after.


netaw said:


> I however, last a long time, and usually only get to have an orgasm every 3rd to 4th time we have sex.


 I don't know if lasting a long time has happened over time due to things getting less exciting, maybe adding some spice/excitement to the mix will help you here. Laura Corn has some good books in this area. One is '101 quickies' (or something like that) which might help you if you can mix the long sessions with some shorter ones that work for you.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

"I ask why don't you do something else to get me off, she says i don't know, but ultimately seem to have no real interest in getting me off."

Here you have an interesting dichotomy of her actions not supporting her words. I'd really like you to focus and elaborate on this because what people do is a much better indicator of truth than what people say.

Does she just evade the question? I'm sure you press the issue and list any one of 10 things she could do. You may have to (heh heh heh) "take the matter into your own hands" hahahahah and perhaps... warm up before a session?

What is going through YOUR head during these sessions also? If you are thinking "man I hope this selfish person actually sees to my needs for a change" or "I waited all week, this better be good" then I can see how you are torpedoing yourself as well.

What is she interested in? A lot of women don't get turned on until DURING, which makes it very tough to convince her to spice things up. Advice like "just try different foreplay" or "do it more" is not going to be any help if she isn't willing in the first place.

Can you try some movies? Show her what you want? Ask her what she wants? Women, like men, need to feel that their needs are being met in order to relax and enjoy. Is it possible she is sitting there thinking "why should I do this for him when he can't even help me with the dishes"?

A little more info, and elaboration on the point I asked for would help.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

are you kidding? cheating is not the answer!!!! you say that you love her, but if you truly do, you would not cheat! trust me, cheating is the ultimate betrayl. you will only make matters worse. you are being selfish if you cheat. if you want to stay with her, you can't cheat. you will never forgive yourself & will never feel the same again. if this issue is a deal breaker then find a way to fix it or break the deal. just remember, cheating is usually a deal breaker too!


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I went through a similar situation not long ago. My Wife and her sex issues had me ready to cheat to just stop it from being an issue.
I haven't yet because she finally came around for a bit and started giving me sex more regularly. Now, I'm the one that don't want it, just because what I'm getting is crap and I'm sick of explaining myself and talking about my feelings. 

Like you I wish that women would just give it to us, when we want it, how we want it and then after that we can talk about what they want in return.

I wish I had better advice, but I will say this. I am all for going to a professionals if the Wife is not taking care of business. For instance, my Wife won't blow me so I will go to another to do it for me eventually. The only thing keeping me is money and time.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

carmaenforcer said:


> I went through a similar situation not long ago. My Wife and her sex issues had me ready to cheat to just stop it from being an issue.
> I haven't yet because she finally came around for a bit and started giving me sex more regularly. Now, I'm the one that don't want it, just because what I'm getting is crap and I'm sick of explaining myself and talking about my feelings.
> 
> Like you I wish that women would just give it to us, when we want it, how we want it and then after that we can talk about what they want in return.
> ...


I must say I love your straigtforward style. I wish it was as easy as you would like it to be. Women have complicated emotions. They love talking about their feeling and your feelings. My favourite saying from my wife is " marriage is hard work". I am tired of it being hard work. I also want it to be pleasurable. I work my ass off, take care of the kids and the household. I must admit I just want some straight wild sex sometimes. WITH MY WIFE. After all why be in a monogomous relationship if it doesnt include sex.

If I ever get rich(I'm gettig close) I will send some money your way to "help" you.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm with ya on this one netaw. i have thought about cheating, too. i have a really high libido and my H is not interested. Very, very frustrating. 

But read some of the posts by those who have cheated and those who have been cheated on. Its not worth it. In the end it will just be a lot of bad times.


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## AZ_Nick (Aug 17, 2008)

Do not cheat. You will regret it as soon as you are done. Remember for better or worse. In this case, its not that bad. I think you can talk to her and get though the problem.


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## saveme4 (May 3, 2008)

Dude, come on!

When i was with my girlfriend, we only had sex like 1 per week and a half, and now that she's gone, i miss her like hell.... i dont even want sex, i just want to be able to lay down next to her and just be, ya know?

yea sex was a big deal to me, but now that shes gone, it doesnt matter to me. if you really love her, you will put your libido aside and just take in whats really important, which is you are in love and she will always be by your side. there is nothing in the world that can replace that. even regular sex.

this is one of those times where you just have to suck it up and be a man. dont jeopordize 5 years for some sex. trust me if u separated, you would know what i mean. What you have now with her is better that other things without her.

ps. whatever you do, dont cut your penis off!

Peace and love...


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## Lonelygirl (Aug 19, 2008)

netaw said:


> When we began our relationship 5 years ago, i told my wife that i'm very sexual and have a high drive. She seemed to love that and we were together all the time. We were married 2 years ago, and as time goes by, she now tells me that she is and has never been turned on prior to sex. When we have sex she is turned on, but she doesn't get into the mood. She just enjoys it when we have sex. She is multiorgasmic and what you call a squirter. She seems to really enjoy it. I however, last a long time, and usually only get to have an orgasm every 3rd to 4th time we have sex. She has slowed down how much we have sex to maybe 1 or twice a week. So, i go easily a week or two having sex a few times but not getting off. Various excuses, i'm sore, i'm tired, whatever. I ask why don't you do something else to get me off, she says i don't know, but ultimately seem to have no real interest in getting me off.
> I'm honestly tired of it. I love her and i believe she loves me, but even after seeing a therapist this is not getting better.
> I am ready to cheat but i don't want to give her up and the love we have. To me like most guys it's a very physical need. Should I cheat? Otherwise, i feel like as far as sex goes, i might as well just cut my penis off for all the good it's really doing me.
> Any Advice?


No i don;t think you should cheat. That would hurt her very badly. And i can tell you something my ex husband did that to me. And i torn up. And he the one didnot want the sex i did but he didnot. It took me four years to date again, The one thing i regret. Now my second husband don't want sex and it hurts me. He knew how i was in bed before he married, And he says older women make better lovers. He said that cause i am older then he is by four yrs,I can tell you the deep of my heart i will never marry again, This is my second marrage and he just don't cuddle me or nolthen And i like to have sex and he knows this before i married him, I am just saying have you tried to talk to her maybe it will if you can talk to her, I wish you the best, I already try to talk to my second husband it did no good, You being a man what do you think i should do. I don;t want to cheat i already know how it feels. And also what do you think about him having female friends, He told before we got married he had sex with these friends, And i just don;t what to think, Keep strong and do the best thing,


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

unfortunately i have a high sex drive also. it get so frustrating and tiring. you feel like your naggin just to have sex and it shouldnt be that way.
with regards to cheating - why increase your risk of catching an STD for the sake of extra nookie.
personally i just keep on communicating how i feel. usually it does the trick.
when it doesnt i sulk.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

saveme4 said:


> Dude, come on!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So because of your experience you should know how carmen should feel? Talk about projecting your feelings to others. Unfair. 

He like other men should not be ashamed to feel that having sex is very important to them. It doesnt make a man a pig if he thinks sex has high value for him.

Cheating may not be the answer. But stifling your sexual urges for the sake of maintaining your relationship is not the answer either. A better question would be why won't his wife have sex with him?


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## lisakifttherapy (Jul 31, 2007)

If you love her and believe the knowledge of you cheating would destroy the relationship then I would think very carefully about whether it's worth it. Working through the pain of infidelity is extremely difficult.

Keep the communication lines open - and don't throw in the towel on couples therapy!


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## Farfignewton (Aug 10, 2008)

I look at it this way. You guys used to have good frequent sex right? So you should be able to get it going again. Has anything changed since then? Did you have kids or start to argue more? Are you not doing things that you used to do for her? I agree with Mark Twain that you really need to look into your relationship very deeply first. Ask her in a non-confrontational way why her libido decreased and what you could do to help. And, yes, we ladies have performance anxiety also. I had a really hard time enjoying or even wanting to engage in sex with my partner because of performance anxiety. I still had a libido. I would even masturbate. I just couldn't bring myself to have sex with him because of that and marital problems. Things are not quite back to normal which is once a day sex for us, but they are getting there. My passion is being directed at him again, at least. He accomplished this by being very patient and understanding and also doing things to show me that he cared like helping around the house, being affectionate, etc. 

If I got nervous or anxious during the deed then we would stop and go cuddle and watch a comedy or something positive for a little while and then we tried again. Knowing that I could stop if I was uncomfortable and that he wouldn't be mad really took the pressure off and made me open up more. Before, I would keep quiet and endure and not enjoy it so he would end up not enjoying.

We had some of the best sex the other day that we've had in quite a while and he has kept mentioning it as the "awesome sex" which makes me smile knowing that I pleased him and I was totally satisfied. Now, if we could just find time again I would really blow his mind! We've also just been really busy lately, which puts a damper on things. Maybe you two could use a weekend getaway?


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## MeMa (Aug 2, 2008)

I believe things work both ways. You sound if you want to cheat out of anger rather than sexual frustration. Try focussing on her emotional needs (instead of your own needs which can lead to all sorts of negative things), women need that in order to be open for sex. both of you should try to be less selfish. (i give, you give) I'm sure if you start to give her what she needs, she will be more open to your pace/need for sex. Communicate, Treat her like a lady and she will become the fox you want. All the best, i hope it works out for the two of you - cheating is playing with fire, minutes of pleasure and a lifetime of regret.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

MeMa said:


> minutes of pleasure and a lifetime of regret.


:smthumbup: Excellent point!!!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

MeMa said:


> cheating is playing with fire, minutes of pleasure and a lifetime of regret.


:smthumbup: Well said.

draconis


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

First off thanks to those who replied to my question, I get it a little better now. Trolling, that is too funny.

Don't some cultures/religions still believe that a woman has her "place" a certain role to play in the relationship, with rules and boundaries? 
Is that wrong just because a supposedly enlightened modern woman says so?

I take offense to statements from some women and some guys that say that a man needs to understand all their crazy mood swings and complications with getting in "the mood", and us men are just supposed to accept it. 

I don't think so! That would be like me saying I want a woman to support me while I party with my friend all day and just accept it. I think women would unanimously yell out a big hell no on that one, right? 

In my opinion:
We, real men, have needs that need to be met and if we are not getting it from the person that we married and that is supposed to do that for us, then we should have full right to go to another or a professional.

Now, of coarse a woman wants to withhold, play games with sex as much as she wants and not have to suffer any consequences for her actions, but isn't that trying to 
"have your cake and eat it too"?

I don't know if anyone has seen that HBO show that take you into the Moonlight Bunny Ranch but there are married men going there all the time, usually for oral sex that their Wives don't give them. Now, is that wrong or to be expected?

How many times have we read stories of women cheating because their men weren't their for them emotionally and dumb guys accepting their fault in their wives shadiness. Like it's ok if a woman strays because her man played too much XBOX but a man can't stray because he just isn't getting any at home.

Am I just stupid or is there something wrong with that?

I truly believe that if you neglect your SO on purpose then your the one that ruined the relationship not the person that finally got it elsewhere. Maybe with that threat looming over the heads of the neglecting person(s) then maybe they will do their jobs and take care of their men.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

carnaenforcer

I disagree with several points in your post but will respond to my primary concern. If a spouse is purposefully withholding a need of the other it is a violation of what they promised each other in marriage. I do not believe withholding sex justifies a partner in going elsewhere, lover, professional what ever. If a marriage is in trouble to that point the parties need to agree to try to seek help and improve or look at ending the relationship. I took the vow of “for better or worse” seriously and would never cheat on my wife, no matter how long we go in the situation we find our selves in. If I ever feel the need to break this promise to her I will know it is time for me to move on.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I want to raise a family and so wouldn't just leave the relationship because my Wife is playing games with sex. 

Like *Amplexor* stated


> If a spouse is purposefully withholding a need of the other it is a violation of what they promised each other in marriage.


A breach of a verbal contract (wedding vows) that leave that part of the agreement null and void and open to revision by the offended party. 
Wedding vows should include a proviso to cover the eventuality of "withholding" with consequences agreed upon by both parties, but that wouldn't be romantic and so not in keeping with the whole fantasy of nuptials, right.

I was raised to be honorable, respectful, truthful and honest, that's why I have not "cheated" in the sense of taking on a "lover" but do see a need for some sort of option for those marriages that can be helped by giving the men an option to taking on a lover and in essence truly cheating.

Sex is a necessity for me that has nothing to do with "love" and can be accomplished without having to have another "relationship" and if I could go to a professional I think that my marriage would be fine, barring getting caught of coarse.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

carmaenforcer ~ Are you for real? 

Let's see what is you discription of what a "real man" should be like?

I love the part where you say a guy can ignore his wife and her emotional neds but expect her to perform, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS ? If you do then you are sad.

A guy should just go and get it else where? Really? Well doesn't that continue the problem? 

With AIDS, STDS etc I guess and hope you get what you deserve.

draconis


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

carmaenforcer

Let’s not take my comment out of context, nor cut it off to fit your argument.



Amplexor said:


> If a spouse is purposefully withholding a need of the other it is a violation of what they promised each other in marriage. I do not believe withholding sex justifies a partner in going elsewhere, lover, professional what ever.


If a spouse knowingly withholds or breaks a promise of the wedding vows, yes it is a breach of those vows. I further state that the couple must work together to improve the marriage and rebuild that which has been lost. I do not consider it an opportunity for the other spouse to get a “get out of jail free” card. It’s about fixing the marriage, not tit for tat. While I recognize people make mistakes I never condone nor accept that cheating is OK under any circumstances. If cheating is the only perceived option, it is time to move out of the marriage and at some point, into a relationship that makes you happy. Vows are vows and cannot be altered or amended depending on the circumstances. I have been in a sexless marriage for over a year. At no time have I ever considered cheating on her. We have to fix our marriage or move on. Neither of us are ready to move on.


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## Farfignewton (Aug 10, 2008)

carmaenforcer said:


> In my opinion:
> We, real men, have needs that need to be met and if we are not getting it from the person that we married and that is supposed to do that for us, then we should have full right to go to another or a professional.
> 
> Now, of coarse a woman wants to withhold, play games with sex as much as she wants and not have to suffer any consequences for her actions, but isn't that trying to
> ...


Ok. First off, if you think that women don't have sexual needs then you're pretty dense. It is not only men that "need" sexual release. If it weren't for sex then I would've gone postal a long time ago.

Second, women usually "withhold" sex when we are pissed at you, not because we want to play games or are not sexually interested in general, we just don't want YOU at the time. Sex is NOT always about you.

Third, cheating on your woman because she will not give you ONE sex act like oral? WTF is wrong with you thinking that is grounds for men to go to professionals? So if my man is not going down on me then I can go get it elsewhere and it's ok? because I "need" it? Hell no! It's wrong, period! Luckily my current H is very playful, but my ex-husband was a prude and ya know what? I sucked it up and dealt with it because I married him. 

Are people just marrying complete strangers now-a-days? Do you not have any idea of what life will be like with the partner you chose before you married them? The majority of people have sex and/or live together now before they get married so I would think that one would have some sort of feel for what life will be like together?

Selfishness like this just sickens me. Sorry for the rant, guys.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

*Farfignewton*
I don't think I said that all women don't have sexual needs, my Wife actually has a pretty veracious appetite when it's in her interest, the problem is getting it when I want it, without having to jump through hoops. I have read the female equivalent of my issues with my Wife in these forums, so I know that there are some women out there with prudish husbands. 
I did however say that women like to play games with sex, this is a general statement based on my experiences and from what I have read on these forums and not a reflection on you simply because you are female. That having been clarified, I do stand by this statement. 
I do understand that sometimes a person could just not be in the mood and have been actually using this excuse on my Wife now that she seems to want me more than I want her, after I stopped giving a flying ____ and she don't like it, like I didn't like it, go figure. Oh well maybe someday we'll be on the same page.

I've read about women cheating because their men weren't paying enough attention to them because they played too much XBOX, worked too many hours or some non-sense like that, is that right? No of coarse not, but what is a good reason to go outside of your marriage for sex, what better reason than your spouse purposely not giving it to you and basically telling you, tough cookies, deal with it.

My Wife was a lot more giving with the sex, bj's, positions etc., before we got married and had kids, so I married under false pretenses. No, I know that things change, stress levels, and what not, but it's the responsibility of one partner to take care of the others needs regardless of other environmental factors.
I perform on command whether I want it or not and don't complain about it later or at least I used to. I've been calling plays from her play book lately and withholding if I wasn't in the mood or taking care of her and just not finishing and noticed a dramatic drop in her confidence. Hmmm.

*Amplexor*
Didn't mean to take your comment out of context or cut it to fit my argument, I simply quoted to the period ending the sentence of yours that I agree on. I simply don't share your belief of what does constitute going elsewhere, in a perfect world, vows, responsibility's, moods and needs would meld perfectly but they don't. I personally am not for leaving my sexual needs being met at the whim of one womans emotions and other non-sex related issues. I have had some success in turning the tables and now am getting it more than I want it, from my Wife and without having to resort to cheating. She is finally realizing, where things were going and is doing what is necessary to not have them go there. Or it could just be a fluke, who the heck knows.

*draconis*

A real man, has a libido that isn't directly Wired to his womans moods, sensitive to her feeling yes, but not at their whim.

You should know that I have not yet cheated, having some success getting my Wife to come around before having to resort to going elsewhere, but am completely FOR REAL on my stance that this should be an option for those men with Wife's that abuse their power.

Sorry I couldn't remember or find where I said:



> a guy can ignore his wife and her emotional neds but expect her to perform


Where you talking about when I said:
*I take offense to statements from some women and some guys that say that a man needs to understand all their crazy mood swings and complications with getting in "the mood", and us men are just supposed to accept it.*

*I don't think so! That would be like me saying I want a woman to support me while I party with my friend all day and just accept it. I think women would unanimously yell out a big hell no on that one, right?*

I know that a woman can not perform if her emotional needs aren't being met but will not succumb to sexual terrorism. If she can't separate the two long enough to keep her man from straying then, she's going to have to deal with him only being around when she is in a good mood and elsewhere when she's not.

I am not for unprotected sex and actually would only go to Nevada where there is some screening for sexually transmitted diseases, so no worries on the AID or STDs thing. 
Sorry *draconis* if my comments upset you or anyone for that matter just stating my opinions, no need to wish bad upon me.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You reap what you sow and if you think that any sex is safe with a partner that isn't just with you that has been tested ask anyone in the medical field. Even oral sex can transmit disease. 

Much like I tried to get across if you have a solid relationship the sex will follow. I have never had problems getting any or it being better then the year before. I have been married ten years and not only get more now then before marriage but it is much better.

It sounds like you are looking for an excuse to cheat and a way to settle your mind that it is indeed okay. If you have those issues and it is that important then get a divorce.


draconis


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## amber (Jul 14, 2008)

Cheating on your wife isn't going to solve any problems, and you risk losing her and the love you say you have for her. Like you, sex for me is very important in my marriage and when needs aren't met it's frustrating. Talk to your wife about it, try seeking out a sexual therapist, and if you're wife isn't able to fulfil your needs...you have two hands and sex stores sell a wide variety of toys to help relieve yourself. 

But cheating isn't the answer.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I actually have been getting it a lot lately, ever since I started just giving up and I think my Wife noticed my "whatever" attitude.
It's still weak, but at least she's trying, she's even given me oral a couple of times in the past two months since she noticed my giving up on her. This was huge because I'm lucky to get in once a year and the last time she did it before she had swore to me that she is never doing that again.

Now, I'm the one that says no to sex sometime or just take care of her and don't finish. Still unhappy, but now because she sucks in bed, but that can be worked on because at least shes trying.

*draconis* Divorce is not the answer to everything, I still love my Wife and have no intension on breaking up my sons home/family just because my Wife likes to play games with or has issues with sex.
My Wife knows how I am, and that I will just go elsewhere if she don't step up. I guess when I stopped talking, she got nervous.

I truly believe that this same threat looming over womens heads, especially if prostitution was legalized, would take that weapon out of womens hands and maybe force them to step up and do what it takes to keep their men happy. Us (men) caring about their feelings and emotions will follow.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

So instead of taking on the issue you will out play her game? Why is your game any better then hers?

draconis


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

In many cases sex=power. Withdrawing of sex has the guy bargaining and putting up with a lot more then he normally would.

It rarely happens in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. The woman would get "fired" real fast. Marriage being much more of a concrete relationship (esp. if you throw in the kids) sees much more of this. The guy walks around on eggshells knowing any disagreement will have the plug pulled on sex. What does this do? It perpetuates worse behavour from the woman because she knows she is pulling the strings.

Is this an oversimplification? Of course. But this element exists and derails a relationship. 

I will wait for Draconis to tell me how wrong I am because him and his wife have sex 12 times a week all due to his commication skills.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

You are absolutely right *draconis* in calling it a game. 
I chose to play her game and try and turn the tables so to speak, because logic and reasoning was not working. 
Trust me, I'm a regular guy and so would much rather not play games with sex, but given my only other options were to masturbate, cheat or just suffer quietly, I thought I'd try this game playing my Wife has so much success in and see if I can't get something out of it.

*How is my game any different than hers? *

It's not! All game playing with other peoples emotions and psyche's is wrong, but if it works, can't argue with the results, right. 

I hate myself sometime for lowering to her level and I hate her for making me resort to these kinds of mind games. I think that's why I find myself just not wanting her anymore. She pushed me too far and now I'm fighting to keep the negative feelings from rotting what "little" love and respect is left.

Now, don't you think that if I could have simply gone somewhere to release instead of getting nothing and plotting I think we would both be better off. She could still think she's neglecting/depriving me sexually and I could get what I want and move forward without having to bug her or set myself up for rejection anymore.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I think you would have done more damage to yourself and your marriage if you cheated.

draconis


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

carmaenforcer said:


> You are absolutely right *draconis* in calling it a game.
> I chose to play her game and try and turn the tables so to speak, because logic and reasoning was not working.
> Trust me, I'm a regular guy and so would much rather not play games with sex, but given my only other options were to masturbate, cheat or just suffer quietly, I thought I'd try this game playing my Wife has so much success in and see if I can't get something out of it.
> 
> ...


some people can communicate and be on a level where it's effective. Some people have grown up in insecure environments where game playing is all they understand. 

sometimes by playing "the game" you draw attention to their behavour and it actually gives itself a chance to work. If you did the opposite and tried to pacify every whim you would actually empower their behavour. 

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am in that exact situation myself. It is working for me too although we havent gotten to actually having sex again.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I have seen this from more hen the two of you. It works about 50% of the time. The problem is it does not fix the problem or grow the relationship. Learning to communicate better is a more effective and productive way. From here playing the game means for them to respond to the problem that is still there they have to raise the stakes, then you do. It does not end but rather is a band-aid on a broken leg, you might get what you want now but the problem that caused this is still there and you never effectively dealt with.

draconis


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## stylist4154 (Aug 26, 2008)

I think most of you have good points. I know that I have withheld from my husband when he pisses me off, because being a woman, I struggle performing when the emotional part is missing. That doesn't make it right though. He is a MAN, there is a reason society associates the male gender with sex sex sex... it's because it's true. Men shouldn't be held at fault for their ability to have sex without emotional attachments. It's not a requirement for MOST men to have an emotional high to perform. On the contrary, for most women, it is. Note: I am not catergorizing anyone here, I said "most". As I see it, men that aren't being more sensitive to their wife or girlfriend's emotions may be get the shaft. So why not put an effort in to make your wife or g/f happy and get what you need in return? As for the women, don't expect the men to be the only ones working for a good romp in the sheets... it is a joint effort to please EACH OTHER. By not participating in one of the most important things in a relationship, you are only going to create animosity and that usually doesn't turn out that great in the end. It's called EFFORT... utilize it. I have given in to being so stubborn when I wasn't getting my way. It NEVER got us anywhere besides a good yelling match, and that is no fun. I like sex, I know that my husband loves me and that's all I need to know right now. The rest will hopefully follow suit. If he ever cheated on me though...? I would be crushed. I don't think lack of sex is a good reason. Unless he is perfect and knows and fulfills my emotional needs every day and I am still not giving it up, there is NO excuse for it. Even if that is the case, get out of the realtionship before you drag someone else down with you.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

stylist4154 said:


> I think most of you have good points. I know that I have withheld from my husband when he pisses me off, because being a woman, I struggle performing when the emotional part is missing. That doesn't make it right though. He is a MAN, there is a reason society associates the male gender with sex sex sex... it's because it's true. Men shouldn't be held at fault for their ability to have sex without emotional attachments. It's not a requirement for MOST men to have an emotional high to perform. On the contrary, for most women, it is. Note: I am not catergorizing anyone here, I said "most". As I see it, men that aren't being more sensitive to their wife or girlfriend's emotions may be get the shaft. So why not put an effort in to make your wife or g/f happy and get what you need in return? As for the women, don't expect the men to be the only ones working for a good romp in the sheets... it is a joint effort to please EACH OTHER. By not participating in one of the most important things in a relationship, you are only going to create animosity and that usually doesn't turn out that great in the end. It's called EFFORT... utilize it. I have given in to being so stubborn when I wasn't getting my way. It NEVER got us anywhere besides a good yelling match, and that is no fun. I like sex, I know that my husband loves me and that's all I need to know right now. The rest will hopefully follow suit. If he ever cheated on me though...? I would be crushed. I don't think lack of sex is a good reason. Unless he is perfect and knows and fulfills my emotional needs every day and I am still not giving it up, there is NO excuse for it. Even if that is the case, get out of the realtionship before you drag someone else down with you.


Well said.

draconis


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

brad said:


> In many cases sex=power. Withdrawing of sex has the guy bargaining and putting up with a lot more then he normally would.
> 
> It rarely happens in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. The woman would get "fired" real fast. Marriage being much more of a concrete relationship (esp. if you throw in the kids) sees much more of this. The guy walks around on eggshells knowing any disagreement will have the plug pulled on sex. What does this do? It perpetuates worse behavour from the woman because she knows she is pulling the strings.
> 
> ...


OMG it's nice and sad at the same time to hear that someone else out there gets it and is not afraid of stating it. 
Nice, that not all men have resigned themselves to "giving in" to their woman's relationship manipulation with sex as the bargaining tool/weapon.
Sad, that any of us are having to deal with this crap at all.
draconis hopefully has reached a point where communication has taken the place of games, is just lucky enough to be with someone that is the exception to the rule, or he might just be doing as he's supposed to to get his 12 times a week. 
Some men think that by seeing things the woman's way is the only way to reach true enlightenment. Although, I agree that this is the easier way to go, it's selling your soul for a piece of tail, and that's too high of a price when I can get an hour from a professional for about $150. Heck, I'd pay twice that much just to get "it" without all the work it takes to keep a woman emotionally satisfied.
I don't need him or anyone else to get my plight or understand my reasoning but it's kind of nice to hear that there are some soldiers out there fighting the good fight and not trying to be like them. It's even nicer to hear that a woman gets us MEN.
Like *stylist4154* stated;


> He is a MAN, there is a reason society associates the male gender with sex sex sex... it's because it's true. Men shouldn't be held at fault for their ability to have sex without emotional attachments. It's not a requirement for MOST men to have an emotional high to perform.


It's because we don't need an emotional attachment to perform the reason why it shouldn't be a big deal for us to go elsewhere when our women play games. More damage is done to the relationship from the games that some women play with sex than from getting it elsewhere, from a mans perspective of coarse.




> some people can communicate and be on a level where it's effective. Some people have grown up in insecure environments where game playing is all they understand.
> 
> sometimes by playing "the game" you draw attention to their behavour and it actually gives itself a chance to work. If you did the opposite and tried to pacify every whim you would actually empower their behavour.
> 
> I totally understand where you are coming from. I am in that exact situation myself. It is working for me too although we havent gotten to actually having sex again.


:iagree: 100%! The fact that she grew up in an environment where she could just have a fit and manipulate her mother, or withhold sex from her boyfriends to get what she wants made her not need communication or empathy. I also agree that with some people a taste of their own medicine or turning the game back on them, is the only way to force them to take a hard look at their own behavior.

I'm sorry to hear that the sex hasn't come back, that is one of the things you gamble when playing the sex game with a woman, after all. You have to remember that it's their only weapon and they are usually quicker to give it to someone else and blame you for their staying, than to give in. 
This is why being willing to go elsewhere is important, you take that weapon away and when you find out she cheated, you won't care as much or rather you wont feel like a fool or like she's won.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I give up, you guys want to play your control games manipulating your partner, cheat etc, whatever, do what you want. It isn't a real relationship and in the end you get what you put in because it doesn't solve things and is more work then having a real relationship.

draconis


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I am actually going through this with my H. it really is the worst kind of torture. i can definitely see how this would be harder for a man, being the way ya'll are wired, etc. and from a biological perspective it is not natural at all for a man to not procreate.

I dont know if its possible for a man to gain control over his impulses. maybe ya'll just arent capable of being in control of your own bodies. i guess you're just slaves to your drives. I dont know. Because to over simplify a problem by saying it would just be easier to go sleep with a prostitute, or 'fire' your wife, shows a desperation that one might infer is an addiction because of all the reckless behavior devoid of any concept of consequences attached to that sort of ideology. And of course most people are 'owned' by their addiction, so i could see how you would feel your wife is controlling you. only, it would appear that because you have no control over yourself you are extremely reactive to what she does. But then since you're a man, i guess you just cant help it.


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## samantharose (Aug 28, 2008)

I like you Draconis. YOu make sense to me and you get it.
I keep hearing that men have needs and men keep getting put on pedistols. 
Women want too much and expect too much and they should just give their husband's sex even if he is holding back on the emotional aspect of the relationship. Ouch.

It sounds like if I am unhappy with the marriage, I still need to put out. REally? I have a higher sex drive than my husband, but I don't want to have sex with him if he is being a "jerk". If he is going to stonewall, why would I chase him down and give him sex? 
He knows that when he talks to me and shows me he cares, our problems get resolved and he gets a weekend of fun in the bedroom. Not too mention a good daily dose. 

I just want to figure this out though, because it sounds like a double standard. 

A man needs sex, not getting along with his wife, according to him she should still give him pleasure.

A woman needs communication (emotional security, to get along, to feel love), not getting along with her husband, with this theory shouldn't he give it to her anyway? 

We both have our needs, why does a man's need for sex rise above a woman's need to feel close to her husband.... 


I think some men get lazy. They want a marriage that's easy to maintain. When it gets tough, instead of working on his own attributes, some give up. Get cold. Stop caring. But still want sex. From a woman who feels unappreciated, uncared for? With a man she can't respect?

Sounds like a double standard.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

samantharose said:


> I like you Draconis. YOu make sense to me and you get it.
> I keep hearing that men have needs and men keep getting put on pedistols.
> Women want too much and expect too much and they should just give their husband's sex even if he is holding back on the emotional aspect of the relationship. Ouch.
> 
> ...


You state perfectly the sad case of women manipulating men. It plays perfectly in my arguement about Sex=power and sex is used as manipulation.

So a woman decides when a man get's "some". He needs to play her games and satisfy certain requirments? I think your missing the point. SOME women (I dont know the exact percentage) have been emotional manipulators all their life. Probably from their early family dynamics. The use sex to get into the relationship and up to marriage. Then they withdraw it once the relationhsip is established to the point of where it's very difficult for the man to break it off without dire consequences. 

This type of woman does the opposite when you treat her well. She sees you as weak and continues to manipulate you. When you start playing her game it draws attention to her behavour and she knows your smart enough to play her cards right. It's sad but give credit to the guy for trying. 

Draconis uses the good communciation brush to paint all relationships. It's worked for him so he projects this onto all others. While in theory it's a good tool and good advice it doesnt work for everyone. 

I think your also missing the point in regards to what carmaenforcer is stating with prostitution. By having it available it would take away this "weapon" that some women use for withdrawing sex as a manipulation tool. Doesnt make it right and it's a horrible tit for tat. But in that arena it would work. 

Personally I am continueing to use good communcation with my wife to resolve our problems. But I am also taking her to task when she plays the manipulation game with me. For me a lack of sex is merely a symptom of something else gone wrong. I am not going to be one of these guys that wilts and accepts no sex or a manipulated sex life to get what I feel is my right in a relationship. The way I look at it is if I am going to be in a monogomous relationship I want a healthy sex life. If I cant get it I wont go to a prostitute I will eventually end the relationship.


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## Farfignewton (Aug 10, 2008)

Carmen and Brad,

I really think that you guys need to realize that it's just your wives that are playing this game and that is not a "woman" thing. There are so many women out there who would love to have sex with their husbands and their husbands neglect them both emotionally AND physically. 

Both partners are supposed to sexually and emotionally pleased by the relationship. Men don't want only sex and women don't want only emotion. It is a combination of satisfying both needs that makes for a truly happy healthy marriage. 

I think that you guys just married the wrong woman. It's like their manipulation techniques are new to you guys? I seriously doubt that there was no inkling of what kind of person they were before you married them. I'm sure that they tried to manipulate you emotionally also. Manipulators do not use only sex for manipulation. My ex-husband used a combination of both and I have been the one begging for sex in my last marriage. If he was angry with me then he would withhold for months at a time! This is not a woman thing. It is the signs of a selfish person, period. Whether they are withholding sex, money, or emotion or whatever else they can hold above their partners head. 

I would personally tell them to grow the hell up or get the hell out. I can not stand deceptive people and got rid of my ex husband mostly because of that very issue. 

If someone is going to manipulate you then they don't truly love you in the first place. The only have enough room in their hearts to love themselves.


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## Sari_fin (Aug 29, 2008)

Cheating is a bad idea, it might be a quick fix for your current problem. But where does it leave you two in the long run.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Sari_fin said:


> Cheating is a bad idea, it might be a quick fix for your current problem. But where does it leave you two in the long run.


why dont you read the whole thread. Nobody has cheated.


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## staylor1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Wow, this sounds like my husband...I mean not cheating but all the other stuff...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I married my wife with the full intent of being in a lifetime, committed partner. We enjoyed an excellent sex life and were best friends at that time. I wanted to be with her and only her. I "forgot" about my friends, my hobbies and focused 100% on her. 

But like the old saying goes, there is a reason women smile at their wedding.

17 years later, and a steady decrease in intimacy, i hardly know her emotionally or physically. There were the child bearing and rearing eras where i understood that she wouldn't feel like intimacy, where i rubbed her back, comforted her, with absolutely no expectations attached. I simply did without, never thought about straying. I am still a committed partner when it comes to running the household, helping with all activities and especially with the kids. I still highly respect my wife's parenting skills as the mother of my 3 children. But I have been sorely missing the intimacy in our marriage. I am past making her feel warm and fuzzy, tried it, didn't work to the point i felt taken advantage of. Just how long should I try without reciprocation? This shouldn't be a "sport", down by 15 runs in the ninth inning but still pluggin away hoping to win.

Why is it so hard, so complicated. If someone enjoys something, why must so many things fall into place, the stars align as it were, for it to happen? (yes, on the rare occasion, she definately enjoys it). I have lost interest in trying. Sounds like alot of other men have too. 

I am not trying to catagorize all women here, i see alot of the ladies on here have similar issues with their husbands. I wish all of you the best.


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## italiana86 (Oct 21, 2008)

netaw said:


> I am ready to cheat but i don't want to give her up and the love we have.
> Any Advice?


Dont cheat on her! Try to talk to her again and again.
What about if you tell her that you really love her but if your sexual life will keep going like that, that you are ready to cheat on even if you love her so much. Maybe she will think about that for a couple days and trys to change something about that.
I mean if my Husband would tell me something like that i would defenetly to try to change something about it...

Good luck


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