# Major infidelites - wife now diagnosed BPD



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

Long story, that i have been getting help with in the coping with infidelity forum. Please read it here.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/59275-long-drawn-out-saga.html

Wife was diagnosed with BPD last friday by a mental health government psychiatrist. Said she will need to be in intensive treatment with DBT therapy, and the prognosis would be good for recovery. Said she unconciously was trying to sabotage her relationship with me constantly because she had a deep fear of abandonment.
Does anyone have any thought on therapy and chances of success.??


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes. I have BPD as well and have been in therapy for the last 9 months. DBT has helped greatly, so I think your wife's chances could be good on this course. My partner says I am much easier to be with now.

Of course, your wife's progress depends on several factors, two of which are how severe her BPD is and how committed she is to changing. I imagine your support makes a difference to her, too.

Like your wife, I have spent the better part of my life unconsciously sabotaging my relationships, and/or "coping" with issues in inappropriate and destructive ways.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks for the response. We are trying to find a psychiatrist in Australia who can do this by skype, as we are 2 hours away from a decent size city.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

You're welcome!

Oh dear. And therein lies the other problem of getting treatment. It's difficult to find someone qualified who is close enough (even in the USA). I hope you're able to find someone. If not, there are online DBT courses, too, and workbooks. Best to go through it with a therapist, though.

By the way, you don't necessarily need a psychiatrist to provide the treatment for your wife (especially since you already have the diagnosis, which is about all psychiatrists are good for when it comes to BPD, IMO). I've found that the degree doesn't necessarily make them more effective at actually being helpful. I've been to psychiatrists, psychologists, and everything in between, and those I found most helpful were _not_ those with the higher degrees.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

You will both ideally have more support through this process, actually. Which with the distance, would have to be online, I guess. Has the wife looked into any online support groups?


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

No soulpotato, she hasnt yet. Could you recommend some online ones. I have actually posted on bpdfamily.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

veryannoyed1976 said:


> Does anyone have any thought on therapy and chances of success.??


Annoyed, I agree with everything SoulPotato said. There are excellent therapy programs available (e.g., DBT) that will teach a BPDer how to retrain her mind so she has better control over her own emotions. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have both the self awareness and ego strength necessary to stay in those programs and work hard on changing. As you've already seen, your W does not stay with any of the therapists for very long.

Even when a BPDer does stay in therapy -- as my exW did for 15 years -- because you are insisting on it -- she likely will just play mind games with the therapist. That's what my exW did. I therefore wasted a small fortune sending her to weekly visits with six different psychologists and several MCs -- all to no avail. At the end, she had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail -- giving her an opportunity to obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes her to finalize the D).

Although I've not seen any statistics on success rates, it is widely acknowledged in the academic literature that success is rare because the BPDers simply refuse to take advantage of the therapy programs. Treated BPDers like SoulPotato -- who are self aware and have ego strength -- are rare, IME. I would be surprised if as many as 1 in 100 BPDers ever achieve what SoulPotato has accomplished. I consider people like her to be rare gems and I greatly value their participation here on TAM.

The BPDfamily site, which you've already found, is a good source of online information -- particularly the "Parenting after the Split" message board. If you decide to D your W, I suggest you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ Finally, if you would like to read about my experiences with my BPDer exW, please take a look at my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, Annoyed.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

veryannoyed1976 said:


> No soulpotato, she hasnt yet. Could you recommend some online ones. I have actually posted on bpdfamily.


I've heard bpdfamily is good for non-BPDers, so I hope you get some good feedback and support there. For your wife, she could try:

Borderline Personality Disorder - Forums at Psych Central

Beyond the Borderline Personality

Borderline Personality Disorder Forum - Psych forums

I would like to see a social group on TAM for support for BPDers and their partners, but I'm not sure there's sufficient interest here.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

Thankyou both for your responses. I know if i am staying it is going to be a long hard road. I have ordered some BPD books to read, not the one on divorcing one YET. I want to learn some more about it and see how she goes with counselling, to see where we are. Will update on our progress


----------



## "joe" (Aug 19, 2013)

hi veryannoyed. i'm sorry to read about your situation. i'm deep in therapy myself, after my BPD wife left in june. my therapist has also said that BPDs are very hard to treat, almost impossible. 

by the way, what does DBT mean?



veryannoyed1976 said:


> Said she unconciously was trying to sabotage her relationship with me constantly because she had a deep fear of abandonment.


this certainly would explain alot of what happened in my marriage.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

DBT - Dialectical behavior therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Joe, be careful about taking everything a therapist says as gospel. Some are very negatively biased against BPDers and even refuse to see them. (I think this is because they really challenge a therapist's skill and ability to remain professional). I've read, and have heard from multiple therapists, that BPD is highly treatable. The main issue is usually the BPDer's ability to commit to such a painful and frightening path, and stick with it (distress tolerance is weak or nonexistent in us BPDers).

My GF's IC told her to run far away from me (and to watch Fatal Attraction!!) _as soon_ as she heard I had BPD. She knew nothing about me as a person, and wanted to assign me full responsibility for the issues in our relationship (which GF even called out as wrong). It would have been a shame if GF had been ignorant about BPD and had just blindly believed that therapist. Not all BPDers are the same, severity varies, and the stigmatization of the disorder (which spreads even among professionals who should know better) is quite unhelpful, and perpetuates harmful inaccuracies about people who have BPD. I mean imagine, having terrible fears of rejection and abandonment and being treated like some leper by the people who are supposed to be helping those in psychological distress. Being turned away when you want help is horrible. I am sure there are BPDers out there who are so severe and so far gone that most people would be extremely at risk just staying close to them. But most of us are not like that, and I think if we are willing to commit to therapy and change... We should not be condemned out of hand. Condemnation and having to leave your BPDer for your own well-being are two different things, though. And a treated and untreated BPDer are two different things as well.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

veryannoyed1976 said:


> Thankyou both for your responses. I know if i am staying it is going to be a long hard road. I have ordered some BPD books to read, not the one on divorcing one YET. I want to learn some more about it and see how she goes with counselling, to see where we are. Will update on our progress


You're welcome.  Yes, it is absolutely, but the fact that you are even thinking about hanging in there and going this road with your wife is great and she should appreciate that deeply. I'd be surprised if she didn't feel that. I look forward to hearing about your progress, and I hope the best for the two of you. Your wife is very lucky.  This could be the start of a better marriage for the two of you. I really hope it is.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

I am hopeful for a new marriage to emerge..........would be the best outcome and my wife and our 3 beautiful children.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

BPD and infidelity are a heavy double whammy (GF had to deal with the same things from me - I had EAs). Yet you still love your wife, and I don't detect any of that depersonalization that seems so common. You look at her as a person, albeit a very troubled one, and you want to have a healthy and fulfilling marriage with that person. I think you have a good chance at creating that. She just needs to really commit to this and stick with it, no matter what.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

veryannoyed1976 said:


> I want to learn some more about it and see how she goes with counselling, to see where we are. Will update on our progress


I join SoulPotato in wishing you two the best of luck. Seeing _"where we are"_ and determining _"our progress"_ will be very difficult -- especially when you deeply love someone and desperately want to see improvement. 

The problem is that, in the same way that smokers are always "quitting" every few weeks, BPDers are always "improving" -- dramatically so -- every few weeks. With an unstable woman, you will see great improvements over and over again -- every time she is in the up side of the push-away/pull-back cycle.

I mention this because I wasted 15 years waiting for real improvement. For the first several years, I expected my exW would probably get worse, not better, from being in touch with childhood pain during therapy. After that, I convinced myself -- indeed, lied to myself -- that I was seeing improvement, 

In hindsight, I can see that my exW's behavior actually got worse. As the years went by, she became increasingly fearful of abandonment as she saw her body aging. And she became increasingly resentful of my inabillity to make her happy.


----------



## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Don't expect a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm BPD and largely healed. I believe the prognosis for success depends on how bad the BPD'er is, how deep the denial goes to the POS behavior and how bad the BPD'er wants to change.

You don't even want to know what it took for me to heal. LOL 4 years of therapy over 14 years, read 300 self help books, lifestyle changes, TAM, I've left no stone unturned. I've done it all because I wanted it. And you CANNOT do it for your wife SHE must do it for herself.

I'll never be normal I know that. My husband knows that. We've accepted my limitations and we work around them. The biggest issue with BPD'ers is the part where they can't be flawed. And if they can't own that they will never get better.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

ThreeStrikes, change is possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Uptown, how long would it take for you to consider something real improvement and not merely cycling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> ThreeStrikes, change is possible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never implied that it wasn't.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I never implied that it wasn't.


I thought your statement was indicating that you thought that being functional or dysfunctional was a more permanent state. Glad that's not the case. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I'm BPD and largely healed. I believe the prognosis for success depends on how bad the BPD'er is, how deep the denial goes to the POS behavior and how bad the BPD'er wants to change.
> 
> You don't even want to know what it took for me to heal. LOL 4 years of therapy over 14 years, read 300 self help books, lifestyle changes, TAM, I've left no stone unturned. I've done it all because I wanted it. And you CANNOT do it for your wife SHE must do it for herself.
> 
> I'll never be normal I know that. My husband knows that. We've accepted my limitations and we work around them. The biggest issue with BPD'ers is the part where they can't be flawed. And if they can't own that they will never get better.


Mavash, I totally agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

soulpotato said:


> Uptown, how long would it take for you to consider something real improvement and not merely cycling?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


SoulPotato, I wish I could tell you what real improvement looks like -- and how long it takes. I don't know because I never saw it. Instead, I just saw Jekyll-Hyde cycling. I therefore am especially pleased that self aware folks like you and Mavash are here to answer such questions. You've been there and done that. 

You know what it's like to learn to manage your emotions even though you can never fully escape from the intense feelings that threaten to distort your perception. Of course, none of us can fully escape from that problem.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Uptown said:


> SoulPotato, I wish I could tell you what real improvement looks like -- and how long it takes. I don't know because I never saw it. Instead, I just saw Jekyll-Hyde cycling. I therefore am especially pleased that self aware folks like you and Mavash are here to answer such questions. You've been there and done that.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thank you, Uptown. I gauge how well I'm doing by the feedback from the therapist (well, so much for her - still can't believe I've been "released" from regular sessions) and GF. It seems I've been steadily improving (with some temporary drops here and there), for the most part.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Unfortunately, OP has infidelity issues to deal with, as well as the BPD.

I was able to live with my ex's BPD traits. Not the infidelities. I think the two are intertwined, but I could be wrong.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Unfortunately, OP has infidelity issues to deal with, as well as the BPD.
> 
> I was able to live with my ex's BPD traits. Not the infidelities. I think the two are intertwined, but I could be wrong.


Yes, I know. So did/does my partner. That's why I said in an earlier response to him that it is a big double whammy, and one I am familiar with (from the other side). I think he deserves massive kudos, and if he wants to try to work through these things with his wife, then that is amazing. I am hoping the best for him, either way.

I think the infidelity and BPD can be intertwined as well. Because while not all - or even most? - BPDers are going to cheat, there is the fact that triangulation is a major element in BPD. And if your BPDer is triangulating using people instead of objects or something else (and remember, always looking for that external validation, and there are poor boundaries to boot)...there's a high risk of EAs, at the very least. Neither one of my long-term therapists was the least bit surprised when I said that I'd had EAs.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

Well, very confused today. Her current psychiatrist has told her that he doesnt think she displays enough to be diagnosed as BPD. He thinks she is just suffering from depression

I was at this point that i was thinking i could live with what she has done, if it was caused by BPD. Now if it isnt, i dont think i can stay with her.


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

Well, very confused today. Her current psychiatrist has told her that he doesnt think she displays enough to be diagnosed as BPD. He thinks she is just suffering from depression

I was at this point that i was thinking i could live with what she has done, if it was caused by BPD. Now if it isnt, i dont think i can stay with her.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

VA, she was already diagnosed with it previously. When it comes to high-functioning, I think it is trickier, especially since there is an ebb and flow to BPD. (I didn't get properly "spotted" until my 30s, though I had seen a therapist previously who thought I was just depressed, at which point I was given anti-depressants that didn't seem to have the desired effect.) Some weeks or months are better than others. It depends on a lot of variables. There could also be improvement in her as she has been in therapy. Is that possible? How are things in general with her and in the relationship?

BUT, that said, don't let the disorder be an excuse. Hold her accountable. If you would leave if she didn't have BPD, then maybe you should leave regardless, yes?


----------



## veryannoyed1976 (Oct 26, 2012)

She is better generally, on the medication. However sex has basically dried up, as she says she is not at all interested, possibly caused by the medication. Yes, her yelling etc is a lot better, and she is generally calmer.


----------

