# My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?



## hibiscus

I am just speechless.My best friend told me recently that she had a ONS with a work colleague. Stupid stupid woman!
I am shocked as I always thought she had a rock solid marriage. They have been together ten years. She always speaks so highly of her husband and says she is happy in all aspects of their marriage. Infact they are in the process of adopting and are both very excited. 

So why did she do it? She says she was flattered by the attention and was curious.... I asked her if she was going to tell her husband but she refuses to. She knows that it was a one off and will never cheat again she says. She feels disgusted with herself for losing control... living with this secret has been like a cancer she says. But she would rather live with this lie than her marriage ending.

So now she has put me in this really awkward situation! I socialize with the two of them every two month and I don't know how I am going to behave around her husband. I am keeping her secret alive and feel terrible. 

But why is it my responsibility to tell him? I don't want their drama as I have enough of my own to deal with. I feel really angry towards my best friend for telling me. I also feel she is a coward. Infact I have lost a little respect for her.


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## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> I am just speechless.My best friend told me recently that she had a ONS with a work colleague. Stupid stupid woman!
> I am shocked as I always thought she had a rock solid marriage. They have been together ten years. She always speaks so highly of her husband and says she is happy in all aspects of their marriage. Infact they are in the process of adopting and are both very excited.
> 
> So why did she do it? She says she was flattered by the attention and was curious.... I asked her if she was going to tell her husband but she refuses to. She knows that it was a one off and will never cheat again she says. She feels disgusted with herself for losing control... living with this secret has been like a cancer she says. But she would rather live with this lie than her marriage ending.
> 
> So now she has put me in this really awkward situation! I socialize with the two of them every two month and I don't know how I am going to behave around her husband. I am keeping her secret alive and feel terrible.
> 
> But why is it my responsibility to tell him? I don't want their drama as I have enough of my own to deal with. I feel really angry towards my best friend for telling me. I also feel she is a coward. Infact I have lost a little respect for her.


No - it's her responsibility. Don't step in the middle of this mess. This is not your fight.


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## Shaggy

I would tell him ASAP because he has a need to know before they adopt a child. 

I'm sure when she got married she said never would cheat - ever, yet she did.

Now she is saying she'd never cheat,... Again. Why should she be believed this time?

Soon there is going to be a child involved , which really adds stress to a marriage , so what's to say she won't cheat to deal with that?

And next time there will be a child involved.

It may cost you the friendship, BUT it may just save a child from a broken home.

I'd be telling her husband.


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## Shaggy

Btw, she is likely minimizing her cheating so she doesn't sound as bad as she really behaved, a ons usually means an ongoing sexual affair.


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## Mavash.

Odds are if you told he wouldn't believe you. She'd deny it and you would be labeled crazy.


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## that_girl

You've lost a LITTLE respect?

Not only did she have a ONS, she's a liar too. She's a liar every day.

Is this your battle? No. Would I be able to be around him? No.

I'd probably ask her why she told me. What was the point in that? To release some guilt? What am I supposed to do with this information now? Then I'd probably have to take a break from this friendship and her husband. I'd also tell her she has a month to tell him or I will.

Why? Because I would hope to god someone would tell me my mate was cheating even if I was in denial at first. Holy crap. If I knew that people knew and were hanging out with me and didn't tell me? No way.


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## barbados

Your friend is not much of a friend IMO to burden you with this, especially since you are also friends with her BS. She couldn't bear to suffer with her guilt alone, so now she drags you in on it.

Selfish behavior, just like her cheating ! It's all about her.

I would tell the husband ASAP, and then get a new friend.


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## Shaggy

Mavash. said:


> Odds are if you told he wouldn't believe you. She'd deny it and you would be labeled crazy.


Possibly,

But right now the husband hasn't got any clue and this would begin giving him that clue.

She's a cheater, and it's likely she'll cheat again if she doesn't suffer consequences and have her husband watching her. Her getting away with it taught her, that she can cheat and suffer nothing bad for it. So why wouldn't she do it again and again?

Now she's about to rope him into raising a kid with her. The dude needs to know ASAP before he gets tipped by her.


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## Mavash.

Friends tried to tell my best friend her husband cheated. She didn't believe them and cut ties with the friends. I applaud their courage and believe they did the right thing. I'd like to think someone would tell me as well.

I'm just saying be prepared for the backlash if you go this route. For me it wouldn't be worth it, I'm not that courageous. 

The friend would be gone though because I don't associate with lying cheaters. So I guess I could tell the truth. I don't know. What a horrible position to be put in.


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## Shaggy

Btw.think about this - If she's willing to that to her husband, the man she claims to love, just imagine what she's willing to do to you - her so called friend.

I'd be both exposing to her husband immediately , but I'd be dumping her permanently as a friend. She's a lowlife cheater, and you don't need cancer like that around you.


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## that_girl

Mavash. said:


> Friends tried to tell my best friend her husband cheated. She didn't believe them and cut ties with the friends. I applaud their courage and believe they did the right thing. I'd like to think someone would tell me as well.
> 
> I'm just saying be prepared for the backlash if you go this route. For me it wouldn't be worth it, I'm not that courageous.


Sure you are. I know for a fact that if you knew my mate was cheating on me, you'd tell me.

But in this situation, I'd cut ties either way. Why? Because I'm not a bird of that feather.


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## Jasel

I don't think you should say anything. Especially since it would just be your word against hers and if she's that deadset against telling him anyway chances are she would act her ass off to set his mind at ease and make you out to be the crazy friend who doesn't know what she's talking about.

I do think you should question if that's the type of individual you want to be friends with though. Someone who not only would do that but would put you in an uncomfortable position like that.


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## that_girl

And people who dump crap like this and expect you to just be "cool" with it, are morons.

I had a friend do this. She knew that my husband's best friend was doing shady shet behind my husband's back....but then said, "But don't tell your husband."

:rofl: OK. So...what was the point in telling me anything?

I totally told my husband.

I don't participate in other people's lies. I don't cover for anyone. I don't pretend to be ok when I'm not.

I'd be nervous as hell to tell him, but I'd tell him. But I'd give her the chance first.


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## Healer

My stbxw put our mutual friend/family member in this position. She never told me. I resent her deeply for that - even though I realize it was a motherf!ucker of a position to be put in. She should have let me know, somehow.


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## SaltInWound

Had our mutual friends not kept that secret from me for 10 months, my life would have turned out so differently. Instead, I was left homeless and have none of my belonging. 22 years of my life wiped away as that [email protected] sits back laughing about the control he has over me. Time was so critical in my situation. Had they said something when they first knew about it, I would have had control.


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## lenzi

Given how you describe your feelings about the situation I'd tell the husband. Of course you'll lose her as a friend, possibly face some sort of retribution but that's a chance you'll have to take.

Like you said you didn't ask to be put in this position.

If it was me I'd stay out of it because it was none of my business but hey that's just me.


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## Chaparral

Well, now you know what kind of person your friend is..............now you have to figure out what kind of person you are.


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## theroad

Shaggy said:


> I would tell him ASAP because he has a need to know before they adopt a child.
> 
> I'm sure when she got married she said never would cheat - ever, yet she did.
> 
> Now she is saying she'd never cheat,... Again. Why should she be believed this time?
> 
> Soon there is going to be a child involved , which really adds stress to a marriage , so what's to say she won't cheat to deal with that?
> 
> And next time there will be a child involved.
> 
> It may cost you the friendship, BUT it may just save a child from a broken home.
> 
> I'd be telling her husband.





Shaggy said:


> Possibly,
> 
> But right now the husband hasn't got any clue and this would begin giving him that clue.
> 
> She's a cheater, and it's likely she'll cheat again if she doesn't suffer consequences and have her husband watching her. Her getting away with it taught her, that she can cheat and suffer nothing bad for it. So why wouldn't she do it again and again?
> 
> Now she's about to rope him into raising a kid with her. The dude needs to know ASAP before he gets tipped by her.



shaggy is on the money


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## jay_gatsby

Chaparral said:


> Well, now you know what kind of person your friend is..............now you have to figure out what kind of person you are.


I think the header on this post says "My best friend..." If that is the case, then she confided in you bc you are supposedly her best friend. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with husband, but I am going out on a limb and say he is not your best friend. I am not condoning her action, but before you decide that you are going to be on holy ground and can do no wrong, don't you think you should be her friend and help her work thru this in a confidential way? I think you should tell her she is wrong for doing what she has done, but I would seriously consider the ramifications if you decide to go directly to her husband. She needs you to listen and provide a safe harbor for her to go to. You will probably help her more if you keep her trust then go running to her husband. If anyone should tell her husband, it has to be her, not you.


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## calmwinds

How are you going to feel if, for some reason, the faithful husband finds out down the road, then finds out you knew? 

There are SEVERAL people, both family and friends, who "didn't want to hurt" me by telling me. In fact, had they told me when they knew something was up, FWH's EA would never have gone PA, and the "situation" could have been dealt with. Instead, even though we are in R, the destruction of my soul is slow to rebuild. I carry resentment and disrespect for people, some I cannot expunge from our lives. I feel just as betrayed by them as by by FWH.

Tell.


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## LostViking

Mail the husband a typewritten anonymous letter to his workplace. Tell him all the details she gave you. When, where and with who. Don't sign it. That way he gets notified and you have deniability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi

LostViking said:


> Mail the husband a typewritten anonymous letter to his workplace. Tell him all the details she gave you. When, where and with who. Don't sign it. That way he gets notified and you have deniability.


Yeah like her best friend won't know how he found out.


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## LostViking

lenzi said:


> Yeah like her best friend won't know how he found out.


How does the best friend prove it? She could fake it and pose as the OM's wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi

LostViking said:


> How does the best friend prove it? She could fake it and pose as the OM's wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The best friend doesn't have to prove anything.

If the Op tells the betrayed spouse about the affair, her best friend will know how he found out, regardless of how she may try to maintain anonymity, and she'll have to deal with the fallout, if any.


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## AlphaHalf

Tell the husband but also state that because of her deceit you will no longer be in contact with them anymore. Explain to him in a letter that she has confessed to you for cheating and you couldn't put up with the lie and felt obligated to tell him regardless of the most likely loss of friendship.

Tell him he can do whatever he wants with this information but you did what you felt was necessary to keep your integrity and that you lost respect for her in the process. Their is nothing personal for you to gain by telling him and there is no reason make up lies on your part. tell him to take this knowledge as he sees fit and now your conscious is clear. Good luck to you and god bless


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## Chelle D

No...Dont talk to the husband. It was over a year ago. Why would you want to cause strife in someone else's marriage? Is your own that bad that you have to bring someone elses down too?


She obviously wanted to talk to a friend about it. She needs some counseling. You'd be better/wiser to talk to her again. Tell her how you feel, that you have honestly lost a little respect for her, and that it bothers you to know about this. Ask her to please not share secrets like this with you again. 

You obviously are troubled by her opening up to you. Let her know that you don't wish to be that kind of friend, and that you'd rather she did her counseling with a professional that has no biased opinion.


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## jay_gatsby

I think people on this site is so dead set on exposure they lose site of the real issues here. I am not minimizing the cheating part, but please keep the poster's original thoughts in mind. She needs to decide if her friendship is worth the trouble of helping her friend though this difficult time. Obviously if she is not really her best friend, then I agree with the other posters about informing the husband. But please let the poster decide what is more important to her. And I still stand on the premise that it is her friend's responsibility to tell her husband not hers. She has the capacity to help her friend come to that conclusion, she does not need to do the dirty work. What are best friends for??? Everyone should sit back and ruminate about that before they answer!


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## LostViking

Well whatever she decides to do she needs to dump this friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played

Can you really stay friends with this chick for putting this burden on you? Can you actually hang out with her H and look him in the eye and not feel guilty? If it was you being betrayed wouldn't you want someone to tell you? 

Her H deserves to know the truth and make an informed decision about his future with his W. Now someone brought up the point about it being your word against hers. What you can do is meet up with her privately, and ask why did she tell you about her ONS. Ask her questions and just pick her brain about it. All the while covertly have your cell phone out in voice recorder mode.

Don't leave this dude in the dark. If he ultimately decides to stay with her thats fine, be he needs to be able to CHOOSE. And if you tell him send him here.


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## Refuse to be played

jay_gatsby said:


> I think people on this site is so dead set on exposure they lose site of the real issues here. I am not minimizing the cheating part, but please keep the poster's original thoughts in mind. She needs to decide if her friendship is worth the trouble of helping her friend though this difficult time. Obviously if she is not really her best friend, then I agree with the other posters about informing the husband. But please let the poster decide what is more important to her. And I still stand on the premise that it is her friend's responsibility to tell her husband not hers. She has the capacity to help her friend come to that conclusion, she does not need to do the dirty work. What are best friends for??? Everyone should sit back and ruminate about that before they answer!


So if someone knew for a fact you were being cheated on you wouldn't want them to tell you? If one of my buds told me they were or did cheat on their W/GF, I wouldn't be able to look them in the eye anymore. It would make me feel like such a complete a##hole hiding something like that and eventually resentment towards the cheating friend can set in so it can end the friendship anyway. Based on the post the OP clearly thinks this is wrong, I wouldn't compromise my integrity because someone is too much of a coward to own up to their s### and take responsibility.


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## alte Dame

How did you react, hibiscus? What did you say to her after she confessed this to you? If she is the sort of best friend that I have, someone I have known for years and is like a sister to me, you should be able to be completely honest with her about your reaction.

I was in a similar position once and I was so shocked when I heard what the friend was doing that my spontaneous reaction wound up shaming her. I think that, in your particular position, I would give her a certain period of time to confess to her BH. If she didn't, I would find a way to inform the spouse. She wouldn't be my friend anymore after that, not necessarily because I made a conscious decision to break the friendship, but because the difference between us would be a barrier to a close relationship.

It's true that life just happens and we make wrong choices, etc., but it's often how we handle the aftermath of those choices that determines our characters. I would have a hard time keeping as a best friend a married woman who so carelessly sleeps with another man and then refuses to do the right thing. And put yourself in his shoes. If your H's best friend knew that he cheated on you and kept you in the dark, how would you feel?


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## Chelle D

Boy... You can almost draw a line in the sand between the responders that have been cheated on , and the ones that haven't.

Not saying its a bad thing. We all take our own experiences into heart when making decisions... &/or giving advice.


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## workindad

You absolutely tell him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played

Chelle D said:


> Boy... You can almost draw a line in the sand between the responders that have been cheated on , and the ones that haven't.


Yes you can, what does that tell you? You'd be hard pressed to find a BS on these boards, or anywhere for that matter that regrets knowing the truth about their WS. This guy deserves to make a choice.


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## phillybeffandswiss

jay_gatsby said:


> I think people on this site is so dead set on exposure they lose site of the real issues here. I am not minimizing the cheating part, but please keep the poster's original thoughts in mind. She needs to decide if her friendship is worth the trouble of helping her friend though this difficult time. Obviously if she is not really her best friend, then I agree with the other posters about informing the husband. But please let the poster decide what is more important to her. And I still stand on the premise that it is her friend's responsibility to tell her husband not hers. She has the capacity to help her friend come to that conclusion, she does not need to do the dirty work. What are best friends for??? Everyone should sit back and ruminate about that before they answer!


Okay I thought about it? As a best friend, I'd never put my "best friend" in a position to question their morals. 

So, I reject your logical fallacy that she isn't a best friend if she told the husband.


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## workindad

Your best friend is suffering with this cancer in her marriage... do you think her husband cant tell something is off? He has no chance to resolve this as is.

If you want to be her friend, you tell.


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## TRy

Shaggy said:


> I would tell him ASAP because he has a need to know before they adopt a child.
> 
> I'm sure when she got married she said never would cheat - ever, yet she did.
> 
> Now she is saying she'd never cheat,... Again. Why should she be believed this time?
> 
> Soon there is going to be a child involved , which really adds stress to a marriage , so what's to say she won't cheat to deal with that?
> 
> And *next time there will be a child involved*.
> 
> It may cost you the friendship, BUT it may just save a child from a broken home.
> 
> I'd be telling her husband.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
The most power words of the above post are that "next time there will be a child involved". Read the above post by Shaggy again and again to give you the strength to do what needs to be done.


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## TryingToRecover

hibiscus said:


> I am just speechless.My best friend told me recently that she had a ONS with a work colleague. Stupid stupid woman!
> I am shocked as I always thought she had a rock solid marriage. They have been together ten years. She always speaks so highly of her husband and says she is happy in all aspects of their marriage. Infact they are in the process of adopting and are both very excited.
> 
> So why did she do it? She says she was flattered by the attention and was curious.... I asked her if she was going to tell her husband but she refuses to. She knows that it was a one off and will never cheat again she says. She feels disgusted with herself for losing control... living with this secret has been like a cancer she says. But she would rather live with this lie than her marriage ending.
> 
> So now she has put me in this really awkward situation! I socialize with the two of them every two month and I don't know how I am going to behave around her husband. I am keeping her secret alive and feel terrible.
> 
> But why is it my responsibility to tell him? I don't want their drama as I have enough of my own to deal with. I feel really angry towards my best friend for telling me. I also feel she is a coward. Infact I have lost a little respect for her.


I would want to be told with some proof of the affair (or at least a name or something legit to investigate) people deserve to know what goes on in their lives. I would lose the lying, cheating BFF too. It's a little different but I exposed to the other BS and he was grateful. I think his parents and siblings were even more grateful someone had told him. If he'd proceeded with marrying the xOW his life would have amounted to an endless s*it hole, per his family anyway.

I don't keep secrets for anyone, not a BFF or anyone else. Especially not after going through this experience as a BS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

So, she burdens you with her guilt? Nice friend!

If you can't tell him, why would you want her as a friend?:scratchhead:


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## calmwinds

I can't imagine why anyone who has neither been the betrayer or the betrayed could even presume to give advice in CWI. That said, I hope if ever they become the betrayed, that someone has the decency to tell them.

"If ignorance is bliss...Oh what a blister I'd be" ~unknown


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## TRy

jay_gatsby said:


> I think people on this site is so dead set on exposure they lose site of the real issues here. I am not minimizing the cheating part, but please keep the poster's original thoughts in mind. She needs to decide if her friendship is worth the trouble of helping her friend though this difficult time. Obviously if she is not really her best friend, then I agree with the other posters about informing the husband. But please let the poster decide what is more important to her. And I still stand on the premise that it is her friend's responsibility to tell her husband not hers. She has the capacity to help her friend come to that conclusion, she does not need to do the dirty work. What are best friends for??? Everyone should sit back and ruminate about that before they answer!


 Wow, you just said that when it comes to friendship, you need to set your moral values aside so that you can help a cheating "friend though this difficult time". I call bull to this situational ethics way of thinking. I also call bull to "the real issue here" being friendship. As Shaggy has already stated so well, the real issue here is that the husband needs to know before they introduce a child into this mess. The OP can always get a new friend (and should in this case), but the child will have no choice in the matter.


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## luv2luv

MattMatt said:


> So, she burdens you with her guilt? Nice friend!
> 
> If you can't tell him, why would you want her as a friend?:scratchhead:


Or she shares her sadness / regret with a friend. We do it with the rest of our lives but if we make a real mistake god forbid we talk about it with someone to try to make it better:

The OP is being really selfish here. It's not about her and her feelings. She is friends with this person, so obviously she sees some good in her, now she makes one mistake and she is poison. Good people make bad mistakes, and there friends shouldn't sit around in judgment of them, trying to pla judge, jury and executioner .

OP I really think you're being selfish and making this about you and your feelings when your friend is hurting , and needs help. 

If you cannot put aside your issues long enough to help her, you should stop being friends with, instead of blowing up her marriage for your own sense of morality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hibiscus

I appreciate everyone's opinions but Omg its not that simple. I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act. This woman has been there for me and my family through thick and thin.She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out. 

Yes she has tarnished her reputation by cheating but she is not a horrible person. And when she confessed , she was in pieces. I felt her shame, her sadness, her disappointment in herself. She knows how I feel about cheating because I was cheated on a year ago. 

I told her that I was very disappointed in her. I asked her if she was going to cheat again. She swears she won't. But she is not going to tell her husband because he will end the marriage.

I am not very close to her husband but I know him well enough to feel guilty. I just don't know how she manages to hide it rom him. Maybe I will just distance myself from her. I don't know.

I just dont want this drama. So annoyed she told me this. She knows how annoyed I am but has faith that I won't tell her husband. I don't know what to do still. Maybe need to chew it out a bit


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## CEL

Had this happen to me best friends since we were like 7 where tight as two people can be shared everything. He got married when he was 18 at the same time he joined the Army. While I was with him some nights he would talk about having sex with hookers while overseas or when at a bar he would chase women. Then I found out he had a girlfriend on the side. One night I was over at his place with his brother and his wife well we got to talking and it came out. I just told her this is what has happened we barely knew each other me and him where friends but we where never a couples friendship. She went and called him talked to him for about an hour then handed me the phone. He never condemned me or anything I told him if he needed me he knew where to find me and that I would be there for him.

For me it came down to the fact of honor. Either you are doing the right thing or you are not. When you look at life you can see that for many decisions it does not really come down to right and wrong you know what to do instead you fear doing what you know is the right thing. I was afraid I would lose his friendship. I was afraid he would hate me. I was afraid to be the bad guy. But at the end of the day by me knowing those things I was helping him live that lie. I was hurting a person because they were living that lie. HIS actions caused the damage. HIS choices made the pain. HIS choices ended the marriage "they got divorced". I will not be pushed into being a person with no honor. I will not have someone take my integrity away from me.

Disclaimer I have never been cheated on. I would want to know if I was with a person who was cheating. I would want someone to respect me enough to allow me to make my own choices not take them away by withholding information. We are not children we are adults that means that we are responsible for our own lives. By keeping this from him you are being a good friend but you are also being a bad person. You know the pain of cheating how would you feel if you never found out? How would you feel if someone made that choice for you that you just did not deserve to know? How would you feel if they treated you as a child on one of the most important choices a person can make? Tough questions I would tell your friend to come clean with her husband or you will. To do less is to betray your own convictions a thing you may never forgive yourself for. Good luck.


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## TryingToRecover

luv2luv said:


> Or she shares her sadness / regret with a friend. We do it with the rest of our lives but if we make a real mistake god forbid we talk about it with someone to try to make it better:
> 
> The OP is being really selfish here. It's not about her and her feelings. She is friends with this person, so obviously she sees some good in her, now she makes one mistake and she is poison. Good people make bad mistakes, and there friends shouldn't sit around in judgment of them, trying to pla judge, jury and executioner .
> 
> OP I really think you're being selfish and making this about you and your feelings when your friend is hurting , and needs help.
> 
> If you cannot put aside your issues long enough to help her, you should stop being friends with, instead of blowing up her marriage for your own sense of morality.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would hope my husband's best friend would blow up my marriage over his sense of morality if he were put in the same situation. If my best friend cheated on her spouse I wouldn't want to be put in the position the OP is in. The OP's friend may be hurting and in that case the friend would benefit from IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

hibiscus said:


> I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act.


1) Yes you can dump your best friend. Or not. Your choice.

2) You would not be the one to end the marriage. She made intentional choices and actions, which have potential consequences. He might choose to end the marriage as a result. You are not the cause.

3) If this is not enough for you to end the friendship, ok. Your choice there to keep a relationship with her. 

4) You either agree to be complicit in keeping this secret from her husband or you choose not to. That is your _real_ choice right now. Your friend might dump you as a friend for telling, if you do. That is _her_ choice.

So this is a matrix of 4 possibilities on your side. You can stay/dump your friendship. You can tell/not.

Be aware that you are aiding in a deception with potential very large impact to him and to the child and to future children. If he finds out in a year or a decade about the affair, your silence is the cause of all the anguish he and the children will go through.


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## Refuse to be played

CEL said:


> Had this happen to me best friends since we were like 7 where tight as two people can be shared everything. He got married when he was 18 at the same time he joined the Army. While I was with him some nights he would talk about having sex with hookers while overseas or when at a bar he would chase women. Then I found out he had a girlfriend on the side. One night I was over at his place with his brother and his wife well we got to talking and it came out. I just told her this is what has happened we barely knew each other me and him where friends but we where never a couples friendship. She went and called him talked to him for about an hour then handed me the phone. He never condemned me or anything I told him if he needed me he knew where to find me and that I would be there for him.
> 
> For me it came down to the fact of honor. Either you are doing the right thing or you are not. When you look at life you can see that for many decisions it does not really come down to right and wrong you know what to do instead you fear doing what you know is the right thing. I was afraid I would lose his friendship. I was afraid he would hate me. I was afraid to be the bad guy. But at the end of the day by me knowing those things I was helping him live that lie. I was hurting a person because they were living that lie. HIS actions caused the damage. HIS choices made the pain. HIS choices ended the marriage "they got divorced". I will not be pushed into being a person with no honor. I will not have someone take my integrity away from me.
> 
> Disclaimer I have never been cheated on. I would want to know if I was with a person who was cheating. I would want someone to respect me enough to allow me to make my own choices not take them away by withholding information. We are not children we are adults that means that we are responsible for our own lives. By keeping this from him you are being a good friend but you are also being a bad person. You know the pain of cheating how would you feel if you never found out? How would you feel if someone made that choice for you that you just did not deserve to know? How would you feel if they treated you as a child on one of the most important choices a person can make? Tough questions I would tell your friend to come clean with her husband or you will. To do less is to betray your own convictions a thing you may never forgive yourself for. Good luck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## JCD

Refuse to be played said:


> Can you really stay friends with this chick for putting this burden on you? Can you actually hang out with her H and look him in the eye and not feel guilty? If it was you being betrayed wouldn't you want someone to tell you?
> 
> Her H deserves to know the truth and make an informed decision about his future with his W. Now someone brought up the point about it being your word against hers. What you can do is meet up with her privately, and ask why did she tell you about her ONS. Ask her questions and just pick her brain about it. All the while covertly have your cell phone out in voice recorder mode.
> 
> Don't leave this dude in the dark. If he ultimately decides to stay with her thats fine, be he needs to be able to CHOOSE. And if you tell him send him here.


Just out of curiosity. Are you only friends with someone when they don't have problems or they are always right?

Because for my definition, that isn't much of a friend if you are only there for the good times.

Supporting is not condoning. It isn't excusing. It is supporting.

If you perchance willfully got behind the wheel of a car one drink too many (as so many people do) and you hit a little kid, would you want all and sundry to throw you under the bus, or would you like SOMEONE to be there to help you with the guilt, horror, and loneliness you are facing?

I'm betting it isn't "I hope they would be moral enough to have nothing to do with me."

This is a lot harder and trickier than it appears.

But frankly, your advice is BETRAYING the friend just as hard as this woman betrayed her husband.

Nice...very nice.


----------



## that_girl

If I knew someone was being cheated out of money, business, whatever, I'd tell them.

To me, this is no different.


----------



## that_girl

JCD said:


> Just out of curiosity. Are you only friends with someone when they don't have problems or they are always right?
> 
> Because for my definition, that isn't much of a friend if you are only there for the good times.
> 
> Supporting is not condoning. It isn't excusing. It is supporting.
> 
> If you perchance willfully got behind the wheel of a car one drink too many (as so many people do) and you hit a little kid, would you want all and sundry to throw you under the bus, or would you like SOMEONE to be there to help you with the guilt, horror, and loneliness you are facing?
> 
> I'm betting it isn't "I hope they would be moral enough to have nothing to do with me."
> 
> This is a lot harder and trickier than it appears.
> 
> But frankly, your advice is BETRAYING the friend just as hard as this woman betrayed her husband.
> 
> Nice...very nice.


For some people, maybe.

I would have to step away from the friendship for a while. I wouldn't be part of the deceit. And I'd expect my friends to call me on my bullshet too. And walk away if they have to....which many have lately because of a situation I was in. But that's ok. Life is about choices.

And what exactly is she supporting? The support to continue the lie? Lol. Ok.


----------



## Refuse to be played

hibiscus said:


> I appreciate everyone's opinions but Omg its not that simple. I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act. This woman has been there for me and my family through thick and thin.She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out.
> 
> Yes she has tarnished her reputation by cheating but she is not a horrible person. And when she confessed , she was in pieces. I felt her shame, her sadness, her disappointment in herself. She knows how I feel about cheating because I was cheated on a year ago.
> 
> I told her that I was very disappointed in her. I asked her if she was going to cheat again. She swears she won't. But she is not going to tell her husband because he will end the marriage.
> 
> I am not very close to her husband but I know him well enough to feel guilty. I just don't know how she manages to hide it rom him. Maybe I will just distance myself from her. I don't know.
> 
> I just dont want this drama. So annoyed she told me this. She knows how annoyed I am but has faith that I won't tell her husband. I don't know what to do still. Maybe need to chew it out a bit


You say your friend is a good person, which may very well be true. But she is also SELFISH. She is SELFISH for cheating on her husband. She is SELFISH for hiding it to protect herself and to avoid facing any consequences. She is SELFISH for burdening you with her secret. She is SELFISH for wanting you to sacrifice your integrity and moral code.

Unless she was completely blackout drunk (which would make it rape) it wasn't a mistake. She knew what the f### she was doing. Not a one time bad choice, at any point before they finished she could have stopped but she didn't. Every thrust, pump, and grind was a conscience choice to betray her husband. She made a choice. She chose to take her clothes off. She chose to sleep with this d-bag. She chooses to hide it, not for her husbands best interest but to protect hers. Thats not what someone who is truly remorseful does.

There is about to be a child involved. Thats more stress and pressure on a relationship and she already proven she can't handle it already. Sure she says she'll never do it again, but I'm pretty sure like most women she said she would never cheat also. How would you feel if someone knew but didn't say anything because he was their best friend for 20 yrs or that they weren't very close to you.


----------



## barbados

hibiscus said:


> I appreciate everyone's opinions but Omg its not that simple. I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act. This woman has been there for me and my family through thick and thin.*She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out. *
> 
> Yes she has tarnished her reputation by cheating but she is not a horrible person. And when she confessed , she was in pieces. I felt her shame, her sadness, her disappointment in herself. She knows how I feel about cheating because I was cheated on a year ago.
> 
> I told her that I was very disappointed in her. I asked her if she was going to cheat again. She swears she won't. *But she is not going to tell her husband because he will end the marriage.*
> 
> I am not very close to her husband but I know him well enough to feel guilty. I just don't know how she manages to hide it rom him. Maybe I will just distance myself from her. I don't know.
> 
> I just dont want this drama. So annoyed she told me this. She knows how annoyed I am but has faith that I won't tell her husband. I don't know what to do still. Maybe need to chew it out a bit


Just another SELFISH, CAKE EATING CHEATER. So its alright that her husband now lives a lie of marriage because SHE is a SELFISH CHEATER !!

You say that "She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out."

NO, she is not. A kind, lovely, beautiful person would not lie to her husband just to save herself.


----------



## CEL

JCD said:


> Just out of curiosity. Are you only friends with someone when they don't have problems or they are always right?
> 
> Because for my definition, that isn't much of a friend if you are only there for the good times.
> 
> Supporting is not condoning. It isn't excusing. It is supporting.
> 
> If you perchance willfully got behind the wheel of a car one drink too many (as so many people do) and you hit a little kid, would you want all and sundry to throw you under the bus, or would you like SOMEONE to be there to help you with the guilt, horror, and loneliness you are facing?
> 
> I'm betting it isn't "I hope they would be moral enough to have nothing to do with me."
> 
> This is a lot harder and trickier than it appears.
> 
> But frankly, your advice is BETRAYING the friend just as hard as this woman betrayed her husband.
> 
> Nice...very nice.



I will join in here since I have done it. First yes I betrayed my friend but that does not equate out to his betayal fo his wife you cannot compare pain that way, your argument is flawed. Often on this site you have people who say being cheated on equates to losing a child what I did was not that. And no I am not trying to get out of the fact I caused him pain and helped his marriage bust up. I own that and I am okay with that. If he was a pedophile, rapist, serial killer or a host of other things I would do the same thing. My choice is that under some conditions don't expect me to have your back. Unconditional love is fake...sorry it just is if a person cheats or abuses you then it is gone. Same thing for friendships if you cross some boundaries then the friendship is not worth it. We see it all the time on here. So yep I betrayed him a friend that I had for my life. We had bleed together, run from bullies together, cried together, I had been beat the shyte out of for him and stood up to his Dad and brother for him. He had done many of the same things for me. Hell I got him a hooker when he was single.

But that being the case it came down to a simple equation my honor or our friendship. I made my choice sometimes I am sorry for what I did not because I think it was wrong but because of the damage. Just because my threshold is not your threshold does not make me a BAD person as you insinuate nor does it make RTBP a BAD person it means we have different boundaries. 

Now the OP has a choice most likely this will come out and now she is part of the cover up. Nothing and no one can change that given the OP's past history of dealing with cheating I don't see how she can remain silent. But if she does I can almost guarantee in the future she will regret it because she will never be able to talk about cheating or integrity without a twinge. After all only those who have been cheated on REALLY know the pain. And those that do almost always want to be told. To be treated like a human being. And that is what this husband is a human being by keeping silent you allow him to be lied to continue to be hurt after all when he finds out what are you going to tell him? That you valued that friendship over his heart? That you valued that friendship over his life?


----------



## Refuse to be played

JCD said:


> Just out of curiosity. Are you only friends with someone when they don't have problems or they are always right?
> 
> Because for my definition, that isn't much of a friend if you are only there for the good times.
> 
> Supporting is not condoning. It isn't excusing. It is supporting.
> 
> If you perchance willfully got behind the wheel of a car one drink too many (as so many people do) and you hit a little kid, would you want all and sundry to throw you under the bus, or would you like SOMEONE to be there to help you with the guilt, horror, and loneliness you are facing?
> 
> I'm betting it isn't "I hope they would be moral enough to have nothing to do with me."
> 
> This is a lot harder and trickier than it appears.
> 
> But frankly, your advice is BETRAYING the friend just as hard as this woman betrayed her husband.
> 
> Nice...very nice.


No my if my friends f### up I encourage them to own it. A true friend doesn't coddle you and hit you with the baby gloves, they smack you up side the head and call you out on your bulls###. And I'm sorry but pushing them to do anything but the right thing is condoning it. If I hit a little kid I would OWN IT. If I tried to run and hide then yes I would expect to be ostracized and shunned by friends. But instead of ducking like a spoiled brat I stood tall like an adult and faced the consequences of my actions I'm sure my friends and family will be disappointed but supportive as well.

And the recorder thing is what I'd do in the situation. My friend in that situation would have no leg to stand on in order to b#### about betrayal. Ultimately I'm doing the right thing to help out the true injured party in this situation and thats the BS.


----------



## JCD

So...we can't equate recording a friend and betraying their confidence as equal to cheating...but we can equate cheating to murder and pedophilia.

Huh. THAT'S fair.

"I am going to destroy everything you value, everything you've suffered in silence to protect, I am going to take the things you cried on my shoulder about and ruin your marriage, your chance at kids and your image to the community...because I CARE about you spiritually..."

I think the more respectful choice is to stop caring about them so much.

But YOU are breaking the friendship, not them. Live by your principles and tell that person that they are unworthy of wonderful YOU to their face.

And God help you if you ever screw up in a big way.

Karma: It's not just for cheaters anymore.


----------



## calmwinds

In certain circles, adultery is on the top 10 things not to do, right up there with murder and lies, among other things.


----------



## CEL

JCD said:


> So...we can't equate recording a friend and betraying their confidence as equal to cheating...but we can equate cheating to murder and pedophilia.
> 
> Huh. THAT'S fair.
> 
> "I am going to destroy everything you value, everything you've suffered in silence to protect, I am going to take the things you cried on my shoulder about and ruin your marriage, your chance at kids and your image to the community...because I CARE about you spiritually..."
> 
> I think the more respectful choice is to stop caring about them so much.
> 
> But YOU are breaking the friendship, not them. Live by your principles and tell that person that they are unworthy of wonderful YOU to their face.
> 
> And God help you if you ever screw up in a big way.
> 
> Karma: It's not just for cheaters anymore.


I did not compare them I just referenced them. Don't worry this will be my last post if you want to continue feel free to PM me tho. Oh and your use of Karma is wrong it does not work that way but that's cool. 

Me and the friend.....we are still best friends his marriage and his life at that time was very dark when he came out of it we reconnected he is now my best friend again and I would do ALMOST anything for him. As for his Ex well they divorced then years later tried to reconnect and get remarried well it did not work out they discovered they really where just incompatible in the end. She married another man and he married another women now he has 2 kids and seems to be really really happy. Life is strange it never really goes the way we think but like I said I regret betraying him but still think it was the right thing to do.


----------



## JCD

I understand honor and I understand the desire to expose. Exposure is easy when it's a stranger or your own personal betrayer.

However...the unspoken vows and loyalty you owe a FRIEND makes this not so straightforward.

I actually respect you CEL because you did it straight, told him why you did it...and you honorably felt bad FOR doing it. This WAS a conflict of loyalties, to self image and to friend. Something had to give.

If you did it without a second's hesitation or regret, you'd be one of those clowns like Cato and Torquemada: persons who love principles far more than people and get validation from being thorny pricks. Nice as icons. Difficult to live with otherwise.

There are no good answers here. Something has to give. It is a conflict of loyalty and anyone who thinks this is easy isn't much of a friend.

At no time did I say that one shouldn't correct a friend, advise them or use all your influence to get them to do the 'right' thing. That is one of the duties (and perks) of being a friend.

BUT...there is also something owed to a friend about confidences.

If I had to do this, I'd probably tell the woman that I would no longer socialize with her husband AT ALL until she told him...and I'd probably cut back on seeing her because the situation was painful and uncomfortable for me personally.

I am not criticizing, but I find it odd that one will take an ass whooping for a friend, but won't take emotional pain for them. Perhaps the former heals faster.

But everyone is correct. Not telling him does him a dirty.


----------



## Refuse to be played

JCD said:


> So...we can't equate recording a friend and betraying their confidence as equal to cheating...but we can equate cheating to murder and pedophilia.
> 
> Huh. THAT'S fair.
> 
> "I am going to destroy everything you value, (The WS did that themselves) everything you've suffered in silence to protect,(Protect themselves not the BS) I am going to take the things you cried on my shoulder about and ruin your marriage,(Again, they did it to themselves) your chance at kids and your image to the community (All should have been considered by the WS before cheating)...because I CARE about you spiritually..."(No my consern is the injured party in this situation the BS.)
> 
> Karma: It's not just for cheaters anymore. (Its also for those that sit and don't do the right thing.)


----------



## Catherine602

Do you and your husband socialize with her and her husband? Did you discuss this with your husband? If you continue the friendship as if nothing happened, do you think it would be like you deceiving her husband as well. 

I struggle with the idea of being a moral police for my friends. Which secrets do you keep and which do you reveal? At the very lest you should express your difficulty with what they have done. 

You have to decide. I think one major deciding factor in this case would be - would you want to be told if this happened to you? You said you were cheated on, did anyone know and not tell you? If so, how did you feel?

You need to discuss this a bit more with her. Let her know what a dilemma you face by her revelation. You could say "you tell him or I will my good friend". But, its your choice.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

OP: My course of action would be to talk to your best friend and tell her that her decision to hide this is not a wise one, a responsible one or a considerate one. Try to convince her that her husband deserves to know and the consequences of not telling him. If she loves her husband so much, then she should be honest with him.


----------



## life101

This is what I will do if I ever (God forbid) find myself in this situation:

1. Create a throwaway Gmail account.
2. Send an anonymous email with as little identifying information as possible (things that only you might know).
3. Make it a bit vague, like a rumor, but with a sense of certainty.
4. Suggest covert monitoring of the WS, so that the BS finds it on his own.
5. Suggest polygraph on the WS to prove the aforesaid 'rumor' a lie.


----------



## seasalt

I also think this is a tough one and I'm surprising myself because I in the past have most always been in favor of coming clean. With that said you can't come away from this feeling like a winner in any way, shape or form by my assessment.

Your relationship with your friend is forevermore changed. If you don't let her husband know you almost have to be her parole officer looking for signs of her cheating again to keep her honest and your conscience clear. Think of the old Indian (native American) philosophy of being responsible for the life of someone whose life you have saved. If you tell you can very well be the cause of the end of her marriage. She may very well pull away from you and make your choices even harder. How could you tell without seeming vindictive? On top of this you may have to deal with triggers from an episode of infidelity in your own past.

I suggest that you truly judge the nature and depth of this friendship to determine if it is worth keeping and if it is have a comprehensive and exhaustive conversation with this woman to establish what is necessary for it to continue. Above all let her know that while you feel that you have compromised your integrity in favor of your friendship, you will never lie to her husband or anyone else for her.

Good luck,

Seasalt


----------



## theroad

calmwinds said:


> How are you going to feel if, for some reason, the faithful husband finds out down the road, then finds out you knew?
> 
> There are SEVERAL people, both family and friends, who "didn't want to hurt" me by telling me. In fact, had they told me when they knew something was up, FWH's EA would never have gone PA, and the "situation" could have been dealt with. Instead, even though we are in R, the destruction of my soul is slow to rebuild. I carry resentment and disrespect for people, some I cannot expunge from our lives. I feel just as betrayed by them as by by FWH.
> 
> Tell.


You can expunge them from your life. They hiding the truth enabled the affair to go on. They did nothing to help you stop the affair.


----------



## life101

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


----------



## theroad

AlphaHalf said:


> Tell the husband but also state that because of her deceit you will no longer be in contact with them anymore. Explain to him in a letter that she has confessed to you for cheating and you couldn't put up with the lie and felt obligated to tell him regardless of the most likely loss of friendship.
> 
> Tell him he can do whatever he wants with this information but you did what you felt was necessary to keep your integrity and that you lost respect for her in the process. Their is nothing personal for you to gain by telling him and there is no reason make up lies on your part. tell him to take this knowledge as he sees fit and now your conscious is clear. Good luck to you and god bless


Great way to do an unpleasant though necessary job.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

This is a very tough situation for you.

In essence, you have been made part of a conspiracy to deceive her husband about the reality of his M in an unwilling manner.

I think you should sit your friend down and explain to her how upset you are that she has placed you in this position, and how you are really torn on what is the moral and just path for you to take.

Tell her that you do not think you can remain friends with her or socialize with them as a couple any more at all while her H is being lied to about the real state of his M.

I don't know that you should actively seek her H out to divulge her secret, but do tell her that you will never lie to him about why you no longer socialize with her or them. If he ever contacts you, you will tell him the truth about why the friendship needed to cease.

Make it clear to her that the reason you must remove yourself from her is not the cheating, but the continuing lie.

If she confessed, you would be there for her to help her work through the pain and misery as a friend would. But you cannot participate in a conspiracy against her H.

Make it clear it is the lying and deception that are causing you to distance yourself.

Losing a close friend will be her first consequence from her stupid A. Maybe it will wake her up to what she is at risk of losing if she continues to deceive her H. 

It might help to motivate her to confess, even if it is just out of fear that one day her A may leak to her H because you have a random encounter with him out in public.


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> I appreciate everyone's opinions but Omg its not that simple. I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act. This woman has been there for me and my family through thick and thin.She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out.
> 
> Yes she has tarnished her reputation by cheating but she is not a horrible person. And when she confessed , she was in pieces. I felt her shame, her sadness, her disappointment in herself. She knows how I feel about cheating because I was cheated on a year ago.
> 
> I told her that I was very disappointed in her. I asked her if she was going to cheat again. She swears she won't. But she is not going to tell her husband because he will end the marriage.
> 
> I am not very close to her husband but I know him well enough to feel guilty. I just don't know how she manages to hide it rom him. Maybe I will just distance myself from her. I don't know.
> 
> I just dont want this drama. So annoyed she told me this. She knows how annoyed I am but has faith that I won't tell her husband. I don't know what to do still. Maybe need to chew it out a bit


78% of marriages that had an affair do not end in divorce.

You know the importance for a BS to get the truth. You telling the BH will not end the marriage. Her affair did the damage. This is a time bomb getting ready to go off with a kid getting involved. This couple will not be ready to adopt until the affair is exposed and the recovery work is done.

If you know about affairs. WS usually falls off the wagon and has another affair when there are no consequences for cheating.

This WW has not done the work to recover and learn how to have boundaries to prevent further affairs. She will not do this work because you are enabling here to stay deceptive.


----------



## theroad

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> This is a very tough situation for you.
> 
> In essence, you have been made part of a conspiracy to deceive her husband about the reality of his M in an unwilling manner.
> 
> I think you should sit your friend down and explain to her how upset you are that she has placed you in this position, and how you are really torn on what is the moral and just path for you to take.
> 
> Tell her that you do not think you can remain friends with her or socialize with them as a couple any more at all while her H is being lied to about the real state of his M.
> 
> I don't know that you should actively seek her H out to divulge her secret, but do tell her that you will never lie to him about why you no longer socialize with her or them. If he ever contacts you, you will tell him the truth about why the friendship needed to cease.
> 
> Make it clear to her that the reason you must remove yourself from her is not the cheating, but the continuing lie.
> 
> If she confessed, you would be there for her to help her work through the pain and misery as a friend would. But you cannot participate in a conspiracy against her H.
> 
> Make it clear it is the lying and deception that are causing you to distance yourself.
> 
> Losing a close friend will be her first consequence from her stupid A. Maybe it will wake her up to what she is at risk of losing if she continues to deceive her H.
> 
> It might help to motivate her to confess, even if it is just out of fear that one day her A may leak to her H because you have a random encounter with him out in public.


Tell this to the WW. Give her 24 hrs to tell her BH. That you will not abandon them but help them through this.


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> I appreciate everyone's opinions but Omg its not that simple. I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act. This woman has been there for me and my family through thick and thin.She is a lovely person, very giving and kind.A beautiful person inside out and out.
> 
> Yes she has tarnished her reputation by cheating but she is not a horrible person. And when she confessed , she was in pieces. I felt her shame, her sadness, her disappointment in herself. She knows how I feel about cheating because I was cheated on a year ago.
> 
> I told her that I was very disappointed in her. I asked her if she was going to cheat again. She swears she won't. But she is not going to tell her husband because he will end the marriage.
> 
> I am not very close to her husband but I know him well enough to feel guilty. I just don't know how she manages to hide it rom him. Maybe I will just distance myself from her. I don't know.
> 
> I just dont want this drama. So annoyed she told me this. She knows how annoyed I am but has faith that I won't tell her husband. I don't know what to do still. Maybe need to chew it out a bit



He won't end the marriage it's already dead, she ended it when she cheated.

Would you have preferred not knowing the truth that you were cheated on? Her husband is basically you a year ago.

Don't fall for her snot and tears, she got away with having sex with another man - what exactly has she got to cry about?

You are doing the child and her betrayed husband a great disservice by covering up her cheating,


----------



## JCD

theroad said:


> 78% of marriages that had an affair do not end in divorce.
> 
> You know the importance for a BS to get the truth. You telling the BH will not end the marriage. Her affair did the damage. This is a time bomb getting ready to go off with a kid getting involved. This couple will not be ready to adopt until the affair is exposed and the recovery work is done.
> 
> If you know about affairs. WS usually falls off the wagon and has another affair when there are no consequences for cheating.
> 
> This WW has not done the work to recover and learn how to have boundaries to prevent further affairs. She will not do this work because you are enabling here to stay deceptive.


If she (OP) is taking it upon herself to interfere in their marriage (and in some ways, she is. She didn't cheat...but she's putting her spoon in the soup and stirring away), then she also owes it to her friend to be a stalwart advocate FOR her friend.

If she reveals to hubby, she also needs to tell the hubby how incredibly remorseful and broken up her friend is about this mess. She needs to push for an R. Why? Because she's her FRIEND!

AND...if they break up because of stirring the pot, she also owes her friend a place to crash and all the late night wine and emotional support she can give IF the friend still wants OP as part of her life. (Probably not).


----------



## jay_gatsby

JCD said:


> If she (OP) is taking it upon herself to interfere in their marriage (and in some ways, she is. She didn't cheat...but she's putting her spoon in the soup and stirring away), then she also owes it to her friend to be a stalwart advocate FOR her friend.
> 
> If she reveals to hubby, she also needs to tell the hubby how incredibly remorseful and broken up her friend is about this mess. She needs to push for an R. Why? Because she's her FRIEND!
> 
> AND...if they break up because of stirring the pot, she also owes her friend a place to crash and all the late night wine and emotional support she can give IF the friend still wants OP as part of her life. (Probably not).


Isn't this the reason we have best friends? To confide in, to share joy, and pain... to help us understand ourselves? As a best friend, my first allegiance is to my friend. I may not agree with her actions and choices, but it is not for me to go over her and tell her husband. That solely rests on my friends shoulders. All I can do is tell her what I think she should do, not do it for her.


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> He won't end the marriage it's already dead, she ended it when she cheated.
> 
> Would you have preferred not knowing the truth that you were cheated on? Her husband is basically you a year ago.
> 
> Don't fall for her snot and tears, she got away with having sex with another man - what exactly has she got to cry about?
> 
> *You are doing the child and her betrayed husband* a great disservice by covering up her cheating,


Just a question: Do you think the child would prefer to stay in an orphanage or with transitory foster minders or with a loving albeit imperfect family.

That is only ONE of the moral dilemmas this woman faces. But I'm SURE another adoption couple will come by...any...day...now...

I am not saying it's right or it's good...but it's reality.


----------



## jay_gatsby

This whole thread revolves around the concept of what we as humans think is the right thing to do. But we don't live in a police state where we are the judge, jury and executioner... we are not Judge Dredds. Why are we telling someone to do something just because we think it is right? What is right for us may not be for someone else. Too many people here have felt the pain of betrayal and sometimes I think it gives them the right to judge others, or at least tell them what they should do because we know better.


----------



## JCD

jay_gatsby said:


> Isn't this the reason we have best friends? To confide in, to share joy, and pain... to help us understand ourselves? As a best friend, my first allegiance is to my friend. I may not agree with her actions and choices, but it is not for me to go over her and tell her husband. That solely rests on my friends shoulders. All I can do is tell her what I think she should do, not do it for her.


I agree with this...and I agree with the people who are saying that the hubby is getting the short end of the stick.

These are contradictory views, but situations are much more complex than 'cheater evil, hur hur! Kick puppies'.

I can envision a woman guilty enough to NOT cheat again because of this little thing called shame and guilt. I can envision a man inflexible enough to NOT give R any chance at all, sentencing both of them to lives of transitory relationships because of trust issues. I can see a kid who never got a set of parents.

And I can see a woman who might also do it again!

We are all working from biases and very limited information. So we have the trust the OP to make the best choice based upon the character of her friend.

But just like I suggested that she owes being a booster for her friend if she tells the husband, the OP is ALSO obligated to be a warden or scold (as much as possible) to her friend so she DOES know that this is her one bite of the apple. She owes that to the husband to discourage any thoughts of repeats. And she has some ammo to make that a real threat.

And if her friend drops her for being a scold...it's a self fixing problem.

No it isn't perfect morally.


----------



## Chelle D

Okay,, m... maybe ya'll don't agree with me.. or want to hear this, but , if I were completely honest.. I really think

If my husband had had a one night stand with a stranger over a year ago, I don't honestly think I would want his best friend to come up to me & tell me about it.

But... that's easy to say that, because I know my hubby would never cheat on me.


----------



## jay_gatsby

Chelle D said:


> Okay,, m... maybe ya'll don't agree with me.. or want to hear this, but , if I were completely honest.. I really think
> 
> If my husband had had a one night stand with a stranger over a year ago, I don't honestly think I would want his best friend to come up to me & tell me about it.
> 
> But... that's easy to say that, because I know my hubby would never cheat on me.


You are not alone in that thought.


----------



## JCD

Chelle D said:


> Okay,, m... maybe ya'll don't agree with me.. or want to hear this, but , if I were completely honest.. I really think
> 
> If my husband had had a one night stand with a stranger over a year ago, I don't honestly think I would want his best friend to come up to me & tell me about it.
> 
> But... that's easy to say that, because I know my hubby would never cheat on me.





jay_gatsby said:


> You are not alone in that thought.


There is an Italian saying:

I never tell a lie, NEVER...but not everyone can handle the truth.

But honestly, I'd probably want to know. My job doesn't allow that kind of latitude.


----------



## Spinner

I have to say that if my husband had a one night stand, I wouldn't want to hear about it. Especially from someone other than him.

Full out affairs are different in my book and I would definitely want H to be forced to tell me himself. (Ex in this case if you felt the husband needed to know I would tell her she tells or I tell)

If it was truly a one night stand and she's sorry and ashamed and won't do it again, I actually think it would be selfish of her to tell her husband to unload her guilt on him. The only thing it would do is bring him pain. If they're both happy in their marriage now, that's all that would matter to me personally. 

And yes she cheated, but that doesn't make her satan. People do stupid sh*t. I wouldn't dump a close friend over this either.

The fact that it happened so long ago is also a big factor. If she'd told immediately after it happened, I'd be more inclined to yell tell.

Just my .02


----------



## elysium311

I would not tell him. He SHOULD know, but she should tell him, not you.


----------



## jay_gatsby

A Few Good Men Spoof - YouTube


----------



## Chelle D

Okay, I see a slight discrepancy in my post about not wanting to know.

I said I'd not want to know about a ONS with a stranger. She said that her friends ONS was with a work colleague. Hum... rather different... As I am a very jealous person. I don't think I could forgive the work colleague.
Ya know, come to think of it, No. I wouldn't want to know about a ONS with her either. & Especially not told to me by his best friend.

If it was more than a ONS, I kind of think that I'd have some kind of a clue that something wayward was going on between hubby & my co-worker. 

Still... I wouldn't want to know a year later if nothing else came from it. (No affair, no Std's, no kids, no emotions...)


----------



## jay_gatsby

Chelle D said:


> Okay, I see a slight discrepancy in my post about not wanting to know.
> 
> I said I'd not want to know about a ONS with a stranger. She said that her friends ONS was with a work colleague. Hum... rather different... As I am a very jealous person. I don't think I could forgive the work colleague.
> Ya know, come to think of it, No. I wouldn't want to know about a ONS with her either. & Especially not told to me by his best friend.
> 
> If it was more than a ONS, I kind of think that I'd have some kind of a clue that something wayward was going on between hubby & my co-worker.
> 
> Still... I wouldn't want to know a year later if nothing else came from it. (No affair, no Std's, no kids, no emotions...)


I agree with you, the best friend should not be the one telling. 

Hey what happened to the original poster? She has not come back.


----------



## JCD

Chelle D said:


> Okay, I see a slight discrepancy in my post about not wanting to know.
> 
> I said I'd not want to know about a ONS with a stranger. She said that her friends ONS was with a work colleague. Hum... rather different... As I am a very jealous person. I don't think I could forgive the work colleague.
> Ya know, come to think of it, No. I wouldn't want to know about a ONS with her either. & Especially not told to me by his best friend.
> 
> If it was more than a ONS, I kind of think that I'd have some kind of a clue that something wayward was going on between hubby & my co-worker.
> 
> Still... I wouldn't want to know a year later if nothing else came from it. (No affair, no Std's, no kids, no emotions...)


I think in light of that fact that the OP at least owes some more questions to her friend on the husband's behalf. Friend still has access to her ONS.


----------



## CEL

I can envision this. She keeps quiet thinking her friend has learned her lesson. Her friend adopts a wonderful kid who is thrilled to have loving parents. Her friend is blissfully happy until she is unsatisfied again and hey I have a work college more than willing. You know I never really got caught the last time and the child is SO stressful just once to break the tension. 

Disaster happens when hubby finds out then OP comes clean. Hubby says why would you keep this secret now not only have you betrayed me but you helped us destroy this innocent child's family. After all he is unlikely to adopt if he understands he is in a rocky marriage. 

Now is this likely? As likely as she is to stay loyal. So 50/50 would you bet a child's happiness in that?


----------



## that_girl

We don't even know if the friend was being honest about a ONS.

Maybe it's an affair. We don't know. The OP doesn't know.

Something made this woman want to confess. Something dragged it up. If it's eating at her this much after a year, then she needs a FRIEND to talk to her about telling her husband. Her guilt and secrets alone will damage the marriage as it is.


----------



## TRy

hibiscus said:


> I cannot just dump my best friend, tell the husband and know that I was the one who ended the marriage...in the middle of them adopting a child?!! I cannot throw away over twenty years of great friendship just because of her one time stupid thoughtless act.


 But you can take a chance at throwing away a child's happy family life if the husband finds out after the baby is adopted? Statistically, the odds are higher that someone will cheat if they have cheated before, especially if there were no consequences; with her still being able to seeing the co-worker without the husband knowing to be on the alert to protect the marraige, that only increases the odds. Additionally, although the cheating friend talked about it on their own, there is a very real possibility that she did not tell you the full extent of the affair. Bottom line there is a good chance the husband will eventually find out about the past cheating or about one in the future should that happen.

There is a shortage of babies to adopt and a long line of good parents waiting to adopt them. This baby could do better finding a more stable couple to adopt them. If you are wrong and the husband does find out about her cheating after the baby is adopted, the negatives that happen to the baby's life because of this, will be on you. If you can live with that, then do nothing.


----------



## Spinner

that_girl said:


> Something made this woman want to confess. Something dragged it up. If it's eating at her this much after a year, then she needs a FRIEND to talk to her about telling her husband. Her guilt and secrets alone will damage the marriage as it is.


Some women are just chatty and if something brings it into their head they blab about it!


----------



## Dyokemm

A few posters on here are insinuating that others pressing for exposure and honesty in this situation are acting out of self-righteousness and even arrogance.

I am amazed at this line of thinking.

I think that any arrogance and feeling of superiority comes from people in possession of information who then decide if others should be allowed to know it, like they are some type of father figure with the right to decide for others in their lives.

Because if you decide to hide info from a person that is vital for them making the best informed decisions in their life, then you are treating them like an infant and assuming a position of control over their lives.

To me, that is the height of arrogance and self-righteousness.


----------



## life101

Dyokemm said:


> A few posters on here are insinuating that others pressing for exposure and honesty in this situation are acting out of self-righteousness and even arrogance.
> 
> I am amazed at this line of thinking.
> 
> I think that any arrogance and feeling of superiority comes from people in possession of information who then decide if others should be allowed to know it, like they are some type of father figure with the right to decide for others in their lives.
> 
> Because if you decide to hide info from a person that is vital for them making the best informed decisions in their life, then you are treating them like an infant and assuming a position of control over their lives.
> 
> To me, that is the height of arrogance and self-righteousness.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## hibiscus

Believe me I have expressed my disgust to my best friend. The only reason why she told me is because I have been confiding in her about the hurt I have felt from my partners cheating. I guess the guilt made her blurt it out.

I just don’t believe that you cheat once and you are a serial cheater. I believe that people can make bad choices and learn from them. My partner had a ONS last year and he confessed instantly. Its been a difficult R but our relationship is very strong now and I feel he is very committed. I doubt that he will cheat on me again...not after what we have been through together to get to here.

And I see my friends shock...her remorse. There is no way she is belittling her actions. She had meaningless drunken sex and woke up feeling empty and used the next day. And immensely ashamed of herself. This is the burden she will carry for the rest of her life.
But It was a one off and she even changed her workplace (moved to a different department) because it became too awkward to work together. I know she wont cheat again. 

I do understand the posts of the hubby needing to know. When I have my triggers I wonder whether my partners friends knew about this ex he had the ONS with. This incites my anger even further but this kind of thinking gets me nowhere. At the end of the day it had nothing to do with his friends. His actions were soley his alone. It was his responsibility to let me know.

I know some people take cheating on par with murder etc but I don’t. She broke her marriage vows which is terrible but I don’t see her as someone as warped as a murderer or rapist etc. I told her she needs to confess (for her own sanity as well) but she is adamant that her hubby will leave her. 

 I totally agree that she is selfish and needs to own this. I think she is a real coward. 
But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place. 
I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him


----------



## chillymorn

hibiscus said:


> Believe me I have expressed my disgust to my best friend. The only reason why she told me is because I have been confiding in her about the hurt I have felt from my partners cheating. I guess the guilt made her blurt it out.
> 
> I just don’t believe that you cheat once and you are a serial cheater. I believe that people can make bad choices and learn from them. My partner had a ONS last year and he confessed instantly. Its been a difficult R but our relationship is very strong now and I feel he is very committed. I doubt that he will cheat on me again...not after what we have been through together to get to here.
> 
> And I see my friends shock...her remorse. There is no way she is belittling her actions. She had meaningless drunken sex and woke up feeling empty and used the next day. And immensely ashamed of herself. This is the burden she will carry for the rest of her life.
> But It was a one off and she even changed her workplace (moved to a different department) because it became too awkward to work together. I know she wont cheat again.
> 
> I do understand the posts of the hubby needing to know. When I have my triggers I wonder whether my partners friends knew about this ex he had the ONS with. This incites my anger even further but this kind of thinking gets me nowhere. At the end of the day it had nothing to do with his friends. His actions were soley his alone. It was his responsibility to let me know.
> 
> I know some people take cheating on par with murder etc but I don’t. She broke her marriage vows which is terrible but I don’t see her as someone as warped as a murderer or rapist etc. I told her she needs to confess (for her own sanity as well) but she is adamant that her hubby will leave her.
> 
> I totally agree that she is selfish and needs to own this. I think she is a real coward.
> But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place.
> I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him


you are rationalizing. if I was getting ready to adopt and my wife cheated I would want to know.

but hey whatever works for you. sleep well knowing you have the info that could stop a man/ child from having a broken family. 


I would tell her if she still want to adopt then she needs to tell or you will. this could ruin him mentally and financially.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

I do not think you need to take it upon yourself to tell her H. I agree with you that it is her place to confess.

However, you can tell her you will take no part in a conspiracy of silence with her.

Tell her that you cannot socialize with them as a couple while this deception is still ongoing; that you cannot sit there and talk and interact with them as if nothing has gone on.

It will make you part of the coverup and deception.

It will then be up to her to explain why your two couples do not socialize anymore.

And if her H directly asks you, then at the very least tell him he needs to ask his W that. Personally, at that point if directly asked I would tell.

But I would tell my friend that I would do this if asked first. She needs to know you will not lie to cover for her.


----------



## Hortensia

Unless it directly affects you - like, is your husband she cheated with for example- then you should not get involved. As you said, it is not your responsability and you don't need the drama.

Betraying someone's confidentiality and trust in you is just as immoral as cheating. At least in my book. I know it's probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm giving it as someone who has been cheated on too. 
You don't owe her husband the truth. SHE DOES. I would make it clear that I disapprove of what she did, but would not rat her out. She came to you with trust and opened her heart. That's a sacred thing in a friendship. Yeah she was wrong but hello, that's the real world, not everything is black or white...

Also, if you do tell her husband, there is a high probability either he won't believe you, or he would believe you but forgive her anyway, and they would both cut you off. You would come out as the loser, and they would be just fine, reconciled and moving on. 
I know real life situations that turned this way.
So, I'd stay out of it...my 2 cents.


----------



## JCD

Dyokemm said:


> A few posters on here are insinuating that others pressing for exposure and honesty in this situation are acting out of self-righteousness and even arrogance.
> 
> I am amazed at this line of thinking.
> 
> I think that any arrogance and feeling of superiority comes from people in possession of information who then decide if others should be allowed to know it, like they are some type of father figure with the right to decide for others in their lives.
> 
> Because if you decide to hide info from a person that is vital for them making the best informed decisions in their life, then you are treating them like an infant and assuming a position of control over their lives.
> 
> To me, that is the height of arrogance and self-righteousness.


You are in fact 50% correct and minimizing the other bit of arrogance.

Let us say that hibiscus' friend is in fact correct: that the husband will dump her if he found out she cheated. CURRENTLY the couple is happy.

So HER ACTION of revelation is essentially ending her friends marriage. HER CHOICE of revealing. You can rationalize that if the cheating had never happened, there wouldn't be a problem. Well, the cheating DID happen...and hubby is clueless. It will take an ADDITIONAL action to make him aware...and hibiscus is facing the weight of that responsibility.

Of course, you are correct in the other circumstance. If she doesn't reveal, she IS denying important information to hubby. There is no middle ground here: wreck her friend's marriage or deny her (happy) hubby from important information.

(Yes, I keep harping on the happy thing. Because you don't know the marriage. It is just as fair as assuming without a shred of evidence that she will suddenly get gooey thighs again just needing a strange man to lubricate her. MOST marriages get over infidelity. One assumes that it isn't because the wayward keeps screwing around. This isn't TAM assumptions)

So you are telling hibiscus to force a divorce on this couple. Please don't retreat from the consequences of your advice. That is a very heavy thing.

I would be a lot less certain about the correctness of my advice. I am VERY conflicted on this issue.

YOU...are not. Make OP's friend have a divorce.

You are very sure of yourself.


----------



## JCD

SaltInWound said:


> Had our mutual friends not kept that secret from me for 10 months, my life would have turned out so differently. Instead, I was left homeless and have none of my belonging. 22 years of my life wiped away as that [email protected] sits back laughing about the control he has over me. Time was so critical in my situation. Had they said something when they first knew about it, I would have had control.


You know...I softpedal exposure in a third person manner...but then I see a cautionary tale like THIS and it makes me sick. I feel very much for SinW.

However...her hubby was having an affair. This woman seems to have had a stupid ONS which she hasn't repeated and in fact moved her work to avoid a repeat.

So my advice remains the same of watching the friend and having less to do with them socially.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

If you read my advise you would see that I have told OP that she does not have to take it upon herself to tell the H about his WW's betrayal.

But she also doesn't have to be part of the deception by continuing to interact with the couple like everything is normal.

She has every right to distance herself from being made a part of the deception.

I even told her to tell her friend it would be on her to explain the lack of interaction between the couples, and I said that she could respond to any direct inquiries from the BH (which sound unlikely in this situation) by telling him to ask his W.

She does not need to directly involve herself in outing the A, but that does not mean she has to continue to interact with her friend and the BH as if all is normal.

A person has every right to distance themselves from such a distasteful scenario, especially since OP was a BS in a similar situation just a year ago.

Its a difficult spot, but from my own experience this would be the minimum I would do.

When my serious gf (M was being discussed) cheated on me, I found out because a friend (mainly mine, but she knew him too) told me he had seen her out with OM at a club.

I have always been forever grateful that he didn't keep his mouth shut. I was able to dump the relationship ASAP and move on with my life.

Denying someone vital info like this is a grave offense against them in my book.


----------



## JCD

Dyokemm said:


> JCD,
> 
> If you read my advise you would see that I have told OP that she does not have to take it upon herself to tell the H about his WW's betrayal.
> 
> But she also doesn't have to be part of the deception by continuing to interact with the couple like everything is normal.
> 
> She has every right to distance herself from being made a part of the deception.
> 
> I even told her to tell her friend it would be on her to explain the lack of interaction between the couples, and I said that she could respond to any direct inquiries from the BH (which sound unlikely in this situation) by telling him to ask his W.
> 
> She does not need to directly involve herself in outing the A, but that does not mean she has to continue to interact with her friend and the BH as if all is normal.
> 
> A person has every right to distance themselves from such a distasteful scenario, especially since OP was a BS in a similar situation just a year ago.
> 
> Its a difficult spot, but from my own experience this would be the minimum I would do.
> 
> When my serious gf (M was being discussed) cheated on me, I found out because a friend (mainly mine, but she knew him too) told me he had seen her out with OM at a club.
> 
> I have always been forever grateful that he didn't keep his mouth shut. I was able to dump the relationship ASAP and move on with my life.
> 
> Denying someone vital info like this is a grave offense against them in my book.


I can agree with that.


----------



## Dyokemm

Hortensia,

I understand the importance of confidentiality in friendships. That is the issue that makes OP's predicament so difficult.

My view, however, is that I'm not a priest. If someone tells me something that is WAY over a moral line, I am not going to hide it for them.

If I do that, then I make myself part of injuring the victim of their actions by denying that person justice.

Depending on circumstances and the nature of their action, I may not directly expose them, but I will most assuredly distance myself from them and also inform them that if I am directly asked, I will not lie to cover for them.


----------



## MattMatt

When I told a friend about my cheating (she didn't know it was a revenge affair) she convinced me to confess to my wife.

I am so glad she did.


----------



## treyvion

MattMatt said:


> When I told a friend about my cheating (she didn't know it was a revenge affair) she convinced me to confess to my wife.
> 
> I am so glad she did.


Your situation with the wife improved after or you split?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calmwinds

theroad said:


> You can expunge them from your life. They hiding the truth enabled the affair to go on. They did nothing to help you stop the affair.


Expunging one's child (and therefore grandchildren produced by that child), step or not, is nearly impossible


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> I told her she needs to confess (for her own sanity as well) but she is adamant that her hubby will leave her.


Would you have ever thought that you'd have stayed if you were cheated on? What I've seen is that people say exactly that, but then when it hits them and they face it, many don't leave.




hibiscus said:


> I totally agree that she is selfish and needs to own this. I think she is a real coward.
> But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place.
> I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him
> But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place.
> I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him


If it comes out, she's going to be far better off for it to come out now. Just look at these threads where the guy finds out 10, 15, 20 years later. Now they feel like their whole marriage was a lie. 

If she's truly remorseful, this is going to kill her to keep this secret. I couldn't imagine living with that stress all the time.


----------



## Shaggy

Ok, so you've decided then. You will help hide the cheating from her husband, you will let him commit to adopting a child with her.

And you will chose to deny him the very truth and honesty you wanted and got for yourself.

If that's what you think is the right and honest thing for you to do, then ok, there's nothing left to discuss since your mind appears to be made up.

I'll just finish with a question :
There is a old adage that goes- treat others as you would want to be treated by them. Are you living up to that?


----------



## TRy

Shaggy said:


> Ok, so you've decided then. You will help hide the cheating from her husband, you will let him commit to adopting a child with her.


 Yup, the child being adopted does not appear to be a concern to her at all. The only times that she mentions the adoption is to list it as one of the reasons why she cannot tell.


----------



## theroad

"If she (OP) is taking it upon herself to interfere in their marriage (and in some ways, she is. She didn't cheat...but she's putting her spoon in the soup and stirring away), then she also owes it to her friend to be a stalwart advocate FOR her friend."


Now that I stopped :rofl: she did not put her spoon into anything. This OW put her friends spoon in. This OW had her ONS. Evidently this was not enough turmoil she then forces her friend into this mess by telling her about her ONS. The only thing she owes her friend is to hold her friend accountable for her actions and tell her BH. OP being a BW knows that it is wrong to let this BH get hosed over and to have an adoption happen now.




"If she reveals to hubby, she also needs to tell the hubby how incredibly remorseful and broken up her friend is about this mess. She needs to push for an R. Why? Because she's her FRIEND!"



Not her place to take sides or support divorce or recovery. Though she can guide them through the choices that they will be making.



"AND...if they break up because of stirring the pot, she also owes her friend a place to crash and all the late night wine and emotional support she can give IF the friend still wants OP as part of her life. (Probably not)."



Bring a home wrecker into her home, :rofl: stop making me :rofl: so hard I am going to piss myself.


----------



## that_girl

I think, of all of this, as a friend, I'd just wonder why the hell she told me. WTF would I supposed to do with the information and WHY would she tell me she's a cheater when she knows i've been cheated on.

Hrm.

Your situation sucks. I hope you have wine.


----------



## that_girl

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> I do not think you need to take it upon yourself to tell her H. I agree with you that it is her place to confess.
> 
> However, you can tell her you will take no part in a conspiracy of silence with her.
> 
> Tell her that you cannot socialize with them as a couple while this deception is still ongoing; that you cannot sit there and talk and interact with them as if nothing has gone on.
> 
> It will make you part of the coverup and deception.
> 
> It will then be up to her to explain why your two couples do not socialize anymore.
> 
> And if her H directly asks you, then at the very least tell him he needs to ask his W that. Personally, at that point if directly asked I would tell.
> 
> But I would tell my friend that I would do this if asked first. She needs to know you will not lie to cover for her.


Boom.


----------



## Phenix70

Write the husband an anonymous letter, letting him know everything you know & he can sort it out himself. 
That way you have absolved yourself from the situation, but yet you have told the husband his wife cheated on him.
Stop rationalizing her behavior, she confided in you because she NEEDED to tell someone. 
IF her marriage breaks up, it's NOT your fault, it's solely HER'S, since she was the one to cheat.


----------



## hibiscus

that_girl said:


> I think, of all of this, as a friend, I'd just wonder why the hell she told me. WTF would I supposed to do with the information and WHY would she tell me she's a cheater when she knows i've been cheated on.
> 
> Hrm.
> 
> Your situation sucks. I hope you have wine.


Yes it does suck and yes I have wine.

It took her a year to tell me. I don't think it was in her plan to tell anyone but I repeatedly told her how much I admired her marriage, how loyal and wonderful she was to her husband, to never take that for granted because look what my partner did to me and look at how hurt I am and all the trust is gone blah blah blah. 

She heard me say this many times and I guess she crumbled and had to speak the truth to me.

My delimma is that she swears its a one off. So if that's the case then why should I rock the boat even further? Isnt it bad enough that she has to hide this awful truth to her hubby? Isnt it bad enough that she is ashamed of herself?

If it was a full blown affair and she was purely confiding in me to boast about it then I would be compelled to tell her husband. It would be a no brainer for me.

But this is not the case. I don't believe she is going to cheat again


----------



## that_girl

Does she still see him every day?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> Believe me I have expressed my disgust to my best friend. The only reason why she told me is because I have been confiding in her about the hurt I have felt from my partners cheating. I guess the guilt made her blurt it out.
> 
> I just don’t believe that you cheat once and you are a serial cheater. I believe that people can make bad choices and learn from them. My partner had a ONS last year and he confessed instantly. Its been a difficult R but our relationship is very strong now and I feel he is very committed. I doubt that he will cheat on me again...not after what we have been through together to get to here.
> 
> And I see my friends shock...her remorse. There is no way she is belittling her actions. She had meaningless drunken sex and woke up feeling empty and used the next day. And immensely ashamed of herself. This is the burden she will carry for the rest of her life.
> But It was a one off and she even changed her workplace (moved to a different department) because it became too awkward to work together. I know she wont cheat again.
> 
> I do understand the posts of the hubby needing to know. When I have my triggers I wonder whether my partners friends knew about this ex he had the ONS with. This incites my anger even further but this kind of thinking gets me nowhere. At the end of the day it had nothing to do with his friends. His actions were soley his alone. It was his responsibility to let me know.
> 
> I know some people take cheating on par with murder etc but I don’t. She broke her marriage vows which is terrible but I don’t see her as someone as warped as a murderer or rapist etc. I told her she needs to confess (for her own sanity as well) but she is adamant that her hubby will leave her.
> 
> I totally agree that she is selfish and needs to own this. I think she is a real coward.
> But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place.
> I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him


You do realize that it is very likely that this will come out in the future. And you also realize that her husband will consider you a toxic friend. The husband will probably insist that she permanently drop you as a friend because you knew and said nothing. I was once in a position similar to yours. I didn't tell the spouse but I ended the friendship due to the lie that was being perpetrated. A few years later it came out. They stayed together and because I ended the friendship BEFORE Dday my friend ended up reconnecting with me and I was able to support him during his reconciliation. We are still friends today but all the others he told that stayed friends with him are out of the picture. Sometimes you do the right thing just because it is the right thing to do.


----------



## darklilly23

I would want to know if I was the BS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

Everyone knows the right thing to do. It is hard to do, the right thing is always.

She has a character flaw and has an issue either within her and or her marriage. These things just do not go away. The addition of a child will be more stress into her life along with joy.

If she is so in love with her husband and can do this, she can also do this when times are tough. A few drinks, the right guy and the right situation it will happen again. To prevent this she needs to understand what allowed her to do this, how to control this and make sure she never puts herself in a situation where it can happen again.

Your BF needs to get help to understand the why. Do not let her adopt and bring a child into the M until she is sure about things.

There is a reason why and it was not just the drinking.


----------



## Phenix70

OP, I've been in your shoes before & each time I told the SO what their partner had done.
In one case, it was a fiancé who had sex with a stripper at his bachelor party, in another, a fiancé had sex with a woman he picked up at a bar.
I told the fiancees what their betrothed had done, as I was friends with them.
They both ended up marrying their fiancés & stopped being friends with me because their fiancés were mad at me.
Our friendship was their loss, not mine, I told them both because I felt they needed to know in order to make THEIR decisions regarding their relationships. 
Sadly, both the guys did end up cheating again, with one getting a divorce & the other staying, but complaining to anyone who will listen how unhappy she is. 

I told before & I would tell again, just as I hope that someone would do the same for me.
Actually, when I was younger, my friends knew my BF at the time was cheating on me but never told me.
I ended the relationship & friendships. 
Loyalty is a very important trait to me, if you don't have my back, I have no time for you.
Some things ARE black or white.


----------



## calvin

Two of my wifes friends knew of her very deep EA with her ex hs bf who is also a ex-con.
The one friend was at my house every day trying to talk some sense into her,even yelled at her that she was messing up her and the fams life.
The friend never told me but rode CSS like a bull about what she was doing.
(CSS is my wife and she post on Tams also )
The other friend that I knew for 20 years did nothing except yuck it up on face book with my wife
and the POSOM,they all went to hs together.
I have cut all ties with the friend from hs,I thought she was my friend also.
The other friend that gave my wife a lot of heat about her affair is still a friend to me.
At least she tried to get CSS (CantSitStill) out of the heavy fog she was in.
Bottom line,I wish they would have told me,its not right or fair to keep something like this
from the betrayed spouse,it makes it much more painful,it made me feel like an idiot and a smuck.
It almost seemed everyone didnt give a crap that my life was being ruined.
Please tell your friend that if she doesnt fess up that you will tell the husband.
By being quite you are betraying the husband also.
Please tell him and spare him some of the pain,he has a right o know.
I know youre in a tough spot and its not fair to you but please do the right thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

theroad said:


> Now that I stopped :rofl: she did not put her spoon into anything. This OW put her friends spoon in. This OW had her ONS. Evidently this was not enough turmoil she then forces her friend into this mess by telling her about her ONS. The only thing she owes her friend is to hold her friend accountable for her actions and tell her BH. OP being a BW knows that it is wrong to let this BH get hosed over and to have an adoption happen now.


OR...she was seeking solace from her friend for the pressure she is under and (as stated by hibiscus) she was also setting the record straight on how she was NOT a perfect wife. Telling an uncomfortable truth is called 'honesty'. Some truths are more uncomfortable than others...

This is actually a good babystep for hibiscus' friend. Tell her disapproving friend. Get some relief. Maybe work her way up to telling her husband? Don't know. How many times have we seen a GUILTY wayward tell her husband years after the fact as she works up the courage and feels more secure in her relationship? Many and more. 

How often to the TAM Puritans say "Oh...she triggered so she's either STILL cheating or is going to cheat'? Many many times...with no evidence. Funny how it is never a positive thing for a woman to come clean. IF everything was as hibiscus told us is true (it was a one off, her friend is DYING of remorse, she will NEVER do it again) and yet her husband came here, they would probably be divorced now due to the advice given. The assumption of someone FINALLY telling the truth...is that they are still lying. Hmm.

But in this case, the woman hasn't come clean. Maybe she will...maybe she won't. If hibiscus takes her choices away, she throws away all her influence on her friend...and her husband.




> Not her place to take sides or support divorce or recovery. Though she can guide them through the choices that they will be making.


Bull puckey. She is her friend. Of COURSE it is her obligation to support her friend. What kind of friend are you? 




> Bring a home wrecker into her home, :rofl: stop making me :rofl: so hard I am going to piss myself.


Ah...homewrecker....you mean a woman who had a one off? A woman who got drunk and made a mistake? Funny how a mistake suddenly makes this woman both a nymphomaniac and Mata Hari in the same instant. You need to read a bit less porn.

But I am happy to bring so much mirth into your life.


----------



## that_girl

So it's ok to have an "one off"? That's not that bad or a home wrecking situation?

Awesome.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> You do realize that it is very likely that this will come out in the future. And you also realize that her husband will consider you a toxic friend. The husband will probably insist that she permanently drop you as a friend because you knew and said nothing. I was once in a position similar to yours. I didn't tell the spouse but I ended the friendship due to the lie that was being perpetrated. A few years later it came out. They stayed together and because I ended the friendship BEFORE Dday my friend ended up reconnecting with me and I was able to support him during his reconciliation. We are still friends today but all the others he told that stayed friends with him are out of the picture. Sometimes you do the right thing just because it is the right thing to do.


If she tells the husband, her friend or the husband will throw her out of their life.

If she doesn't tell and the husband finds out, she may get thrown out of their life.

There is no 'win' here.


----------



## JCD

that_girl said:


> So it's ok to have an "one off"? That's not that bad or a home wrecking situation?
> 
> Awesome.



Sophisticated people understand a difference between murder and manslaughter.


----------



## that_girl

Yes. 

However, a spouse may not see a ONS any different than an affair.

Cheating is cheating.

But I'm not sophisticated.


----------



## JCD

that_girl said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, a spouse may not see a ONS any different than an affair.
> 
> Cheating is cheating.
> 
> But I'm not sophisticated.


Granted...but if I was going to consider forgiveness, the one would be better than the other.

I recall that one poignant thread where a couple adopted some kids, had their own after figuring out their infertility issues...and 7 years later, the husband found out about her cheating even after it was short and long over (though NOT a ONS). I never saw a resolution to that thread, unfortunately.

I'd prefer the friend to come clean too. I think they could fix things if her husband will allow it. But it isn't our choice and barely hibiscus' either. She never asked for this responsibility.

BTW, I love your sig. Where is it from?


----------



## MattMatt

treyvion said:


> Your situation with the wife improved after or you split?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She forgave me and we are still together and that's 15/16 years ago.


----------



## that_girl

Not sure where it's from. But it fits me. LOL!

Yea. I would probably, if this was me, just distance myself from my friend all together. 

Seems like the OP has her own issues anyway.


----------



## JMGrey

hibiscus said:


> Yes it does suck and yes I have wine.
> 
> It took her a year to tell me. I don't think it was in her plan to tell anyone but I repeatedly told her how much I admired her marriage, how loyal and wonderful she was to her husband, to never take that for granted because look what my partner did to me and look at how hurt I am and all the trust is gone blah blah blah.
> 
> She heard me say this many times and I guess she crumbled and had to speak the truth to me.
> 
> My delimma is that she swears its a one off. So if that's the case then why should I rock the boat even further? Isnt it bad enough that she has to hide this awful truth to her hubby? Isnt it bad enough that she is ashamed of herself?
> 
> If it was a full blown affair and she was purely confiding in me to boast about it then I would be compelled to tell her husband. It would be a no brainer for me.
> 
> But this is not the case. I don't believe she is going to cheat again


You've clearly come to a decision, and probably had prior to starting this discussion, so I have to wonder why you phrased the title of the thread in the manner you did, or why you bothered to create it at all.


----------



## chillymorn

if you tell and lose your friend then they weren't friend material and you will be better off finding worthy friends.


yes doing the right thing is often distasteful and hard.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> If she tells the husband, her friend or the husband will throw her out of their life.
> 
> If she doesn't tell and the husband finds out, she may get thrown out of their life.
> 
> There is no 'win' here.


Then I guess she really isn't that good of a friend is she?

I "reconciled" with my friend after his infidelity came out and he has more than once said he respects me for how I handled things. In fact he said he wouldn't have blamed me if I had told his wife. The fact is that at the time I didn't feel comfortable disclosing his infidelity due to the fact that all the experience I had to that point was my exW's cheating on me and how it almost destroyed me. I didn't know that you could recover from such a betrayal and I didn't want to be responsible for the pain I was sure his wife would experience. Knowing what I know now I would have told her. In any case, real friends will understand and respect you for holding to your principles. If not, then they weren't worth keeping around anyway.


----------



## carmen ohio

hibiscus said:


> Believe me I have expressed my disgust to my best friend. The only reason why she told me is because I have been confiding in her about the hurt I have felt from my partners cheating. I guess the guilt made her blurt it out.
> 
> I just don’t believe that you cheat once and you are a serial cheater. I believe that people can make bad choices and learn from them. My partner had a ONS last year and he confessed instantly. Its been a difficult R but our relationship is very strong now and I feel he is very committed. I doubt that he will cheat on me again...not after what we have been through together to get to here.
> 
> And I see my friends shock...her remorse. There is no way she is belittling her actions. She had meaningless drunken sex and woke up feeling empty and used the next day. And immensely ashamed of herself. This is the burden she will carry for the rest of her life.
> But It was a one off and she even changed her workplace (moved to a different department) because it became too awkward to work together. I know she wont cheat again.
> 
> I do understand the posts of the hubby needing to know. When I have my triggers I wonder whether my partners friends knew about this ex he had the ONS with. This incites my anger even further but this kind of thinking gets me nowhere. At the end of the day it had nothing to do with his friends. His actions were soley his alone. It was his responsibility to let me know.
> 
> I know some people take cheating on par with murder etc but I don’t. She broke her marriage vows which is terrible but I don’t see her as someone as warped as a murderer or rapist etc. I told her she needs to confess (for her own sanity as well) but she is adamant that her hubby will leave her.
> 
> I totally agree that she is selfish and needs to own this. I think she is a real coward.
> *But whether I should play God in this one...not sure if I want to take responsibility for it as it was never mine in the first place.
> I am going to talk to her and persuade her to tell him*


Dear hibiscus,

I've been following your thread (I've read all of your posts but haven't read all of the responses) and haven't commented so far because, initially, I couldn't see a moral imperative one way or the other.

But something that another poster mentioned got me thinking a little deeper about your dilemma, namely, that it isn't just your BF's and her BH's lives that are involved here but also the life of the child they plan to adopt.

If they go through with the adoption and then your BF's ONS is revealed to or discovered by her BH, the child may end up the product of a broken home. This seems totally unfair and it seems especially selfish that your BF would go ahead with the adoption without telling her BH what she did, giving him a chance to decide if he still wants to adopt a child with her.

If I were you (and I know I'm not so please just consider this one person's opinion), I would tell your BF that she must either tell her BH what she did or stop the adoption process; otherwise, you will tell her BH.

She will certainly not like this and may end her friendship with you over it but, if she does, she is not as good a woman as you make her out to be. You, on the other hand, will have done the right thing by a child who is totally innocent of all that has happened and does not deserve to be brought into a family that may not survive.

If you do this, you can hold your head high, whatever the outcome. You will not be "playing God." You will be protecting future of a child.


----------



## 3putt

Shaggy said:


> Ok, so you've decided then. You will help hide the cheating from her husband, you will let him commit to adopting a child with her.
> 
> And you will chose to deny him the very truth and honesty you wanted and got for yourself.
> 
> If that's what you think is the right and honest thing for you to do, then ok, there's nothing left to discuss since your mind appears to be made up.
> 
> I'll just finish with a question :
> There is a old adage that goes- treat others as you would want to be treated by them. Are you living up to that?


It would appear she had her mind made up before even coming here and asking what she should do. Of course, that begs the question: Why did she pose the question and waste everyone's time when her course of action was already predetermined?

:scratchhead:


----------



## MattMatt

JCD said:


> Sophisticated people understand a difference between murder and manslaughter.


But to the victim, is there really that much of a difference? I mean, they are still dead, yes?

And perhaps it might please them to know their killer only meant to frighten them, or had only intended to hurt them.

But, as I say, they're still dead.


----------



## MattMatt

carmen ohio said:


> Dear hibiscus,
> 
> I've been following your thread (I've read all of your posts but haven't read all of the responses) and haven't commented so far because, initially, I couldn't see a moral imperative one way or the other.
> 
> But something that another poster mentioned got me thinking a little deeper about your dilemma, namely, that it isn't just your BF's and her BH's lives that are involved here but also the life of the child they plan to adopt.
> 
> If they go through with the adoption and then your BF's ONS is revealed to or discovered by her BH, the child may end up the product of a broken home. This seems totally unfair and it seems especially selfish that your BF would go ahead with the adoption without telling her BH what she did, giving him a chance to decide if he still wants to adopt a child with her.
> 
> If I were you (and I know I'm not so please just consider this one person's opinion), I would tell your BF that she must either tell her BH what she did or stop the adoption process; otherwise, you will tell her BH.
> 
> She will certainly not like this and may end her friendship with you over it but, if she does, she is not as good a woman as you make her out to be. You, on the other hand, will have done the right thing by a child who is totally innocent of all that has happened and does not deserve to be brought into a family that may not survive.
> 
> If you do this, you can hold your head high, whatever the outcome. You will not be "playing God." You will be protecting future of a child.


*Because you could be helping to condemn that child to being the product of two broken homes!*


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

3putt said:


> It would appear she had her mind made up before even coming here and asking what she should do. Of course, that begs the question: Why did she pose the question and waste everyone's time when her course of action was already predetermined?
> 
> :scratchhead:


Her response reads like someone trying to convince herself, not others, of why they are hiding something morally reprehensible. She's at war with herself and expected more people to post on her "side."

I'm talking about the adoption being included as reprehensible. Oh and the friend dumping this type of crap in her lap.


----------



## hibiscus

JMGrey said:


> You've clearly come to a decision, and probably had prior to starting this discussion, so I have to wonder why you phrased the title of the thread in the manner you did, or why you bothered to create it at all.


I haven't come to a clear decision. I am confused and will not be making any rash decisions in this state.

I need to hear the opinion of others as I am sitting on the fence with this one.


----------



## hibiscus

Why do most people say she will cheat again?


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> Why do most people say she will cheat again?


Although I haven't said definitively that I believe she will cheat again I think its a distinct possibility. For one thing she hasn't worked out why she cheated in the first place. For another thing she hasn't faced any consequences for what she's done.

If you are totally into your spouse cheating is just not an option right? So what was it in her relationship that allowed her mind to go there? You said she was flattered by the attention. So what about her marriage is lacking that she succumbed to that flattery? And will it happen again, especially if she doesn't come clean to her husband and they don't work on the problems in the marriage. I'm not sure if it was you that classified this as a drunkin mistake. But the fact is that the cheating didn't happen because of the drinking. She drank so that she could find the liquid courage in order to cheat.


----------



## HarryDoyle

hibiscus said:


> Why do most people say she will cheat again?


She may not, depends if her A was really a one time deal and she hasn't cheated since. But the statistics say that a WS who does not get caught, cheats again 80% of the time as opposed to a WS who does get caught only cheats again 20% of the time. My WW cheated and didn't get caught. Eventually she cheated again, twice. I wish I could have caught her the first time. A year is nothing. My WW waited over 20.


----------



## hibiscus

bfree said:


> Although I haven't said definitively that I believe she will cheat again I think its a distinct possibility. For one thing she hasn't worked out why she cheated in the first place. For another thing she hasn't faced any consequences for what she's done.
> 
> If you are totally into your spouse cheating is just not an option right? So what was it in her relationship that allowed her mind to go there? You said she was flattered by the attention. So what about her marriage is lacking that she succumbed to that flattery? And will it happen again, especially if she doesn't come clean to her husband and they don't work on the problems in the marriage. I'm not sure if it was you that classified this as a drunkin mistake. But the fact is that the cheating didn't happen because of the drinking. She drank so that she could find the liquid courage in order to cheat.


She was prob flirting with him prior to the ONS. I am guessing its the thrill of the chase, something new that you don't get in a long term marriage. And yes the likely hood of her cheating is possible as she hasn't suffered any consequences from it. ....

I am going to talk to her tomorrow and tell her she needs to spill the beans. She needs to tell him she has broken her marriage vows.


----------



## hibiscus

HarryDoyle said:


> She may not, depends if her A was really a one time deal and she hasn't cheated since. But the statistics say that a WS who does not get caught, cheats again 80% of the time as opposed to a WS who does get caught only cheats again 20% of the time. My WW cheated and didn't get caught. Eventually she cheated again, twice. I wish I could have caught her the first time. A year is nothing. My WW waited over 20.


Where do you get these statistics from?


----------



## 3putt

hibiscus said:


> Where do you get these statistics from?


You really don't need statistics to see how this could pan out. If you did something wrong (like adultery), and got away with it, would you be more likely to do it again than if you did get caught?

It's called accountability, and when there is none, the likelihood of a repeat performance rises _drastically_.


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> She was prob flirting with him prior to the ONS. I am guessing its the thrill of the chase, something new that you don't get in a long term marriage. And yes the likely hood of her cheating is possible as she hasn't suffered any consequences from it. ....
> 
> I am going to talk to her tomorrow and tell her she needs to spill the beans. She needs to tell him she has broken her marriage vows.


See that's just it. My marriage is not boring. Maybe their marriage needs to be more on the front burner and they need to create opportunities to have some fun together. Thrill of the chase is a very immature behavioral cue in someone who is in a long term relatiohsip. She should do some self exploration to discover where that came from. The fact is that unless these issues are addressed the likelihood of repeating the behavior is magnified.


----------



## hibiscus

bfree said:


> See that's just it. My marriage is not boring. Maybe their marriage needs to be more on the front burner and they need to create opportunities to have some fun together. Thrill of the chase is a very immature behavioral cue in someone who is in a long term relatiohsip. She should do some self exploration to discover where that came from. The fact is that unless these issues are addressed the likelihood of repeating the behavior is magnified.


She actually has a great marriage. He is her best friend and vice versa. ..the sex is good,they travel alot together, socialise together and look madly in love. Like I said she liked the attention of anew man and lost control 
Maybe cheaters are good at separating things...no idea as I couldn't cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

Separating her married life from her cheating life is exactly what she did. It is called compartmentalization and cheaters are hard wired with this ability. That's how she could spread her legs for another man while claiming to love her husband. She was not thinking of her husband when she was banging this guy. She was in heat and lust and enjoyed every dirty second of it. Then on the way home the walls collapsed and she realized the severity of what she did. Now by not coming clean she has given herself the time to go back and rationalyze what she did. Then she will eventually come up with reasons as to why she was entitled to do what she did. Not now, but eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

hibiscus said:


> She actually has a great marriage. He is her best friend and vice versa. ..the sex is good,they travel alot together, socialise together and look madly in love. Like I said she liked the attention of anew man and lost control
> Maybe cheaters are good at separating things...*no idea as I couldn't cheat.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are all wired to cheat. No one is immune from it. I've read that somewhere around 95% of all affairs start by accident. 

Most people just don't wake up one morning and decide to cheat on their spouse. It's simply a matter of loose boundaries and ALLOWING someone other than your spouse to meet your most basic emotional needs. When this happens, it's that snowball effect that starts to take command until the next logical step is the point of no return.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that you could never do it. Would love to see some comments from some of the former waywards around here that had that same belief about themselves.

I'm betting you'd be surprised.


----------



## LostViking

And don't be so sure you could never cheat. You too may be tempted to one day. Just learn from this experience and make sure you build up the boundaries in your behavior and thoughts to make sure you never make the same mistake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> Why do most people say she will cheat again?


I am not saying this, but there's a possibility she might.

She needs counselling to work out why she did it and to make sure she doesn't do it again.


----------



## Shaggy

JCD said:


> Sophisticated people understand a difference between murder and manslaughter.


Well except for the dead guy, and his family.


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> She actually has a great marriage. He is her best friend and vice versa. ..the sex is good,they travel alot together, socialise together and look madly in love. Like I said she liked the attention of anew man and lost control
> Maybe cheaters are good at separating things...no idea as I couldn't cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I couldn't cheat, either, hibiscus.

However, imagine my dismay when I discovered that I could cheat and did cheat...


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> She actually has a great marriage. He is her best friend and vice versa. ..the sex is good,they travel alot together, socialise together and look madly in love. Like I said she liked the attention of anew man and lost control
> Maybe cheaters are good at separating things...no idea as I couldn't cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She'll likely cheat again because the conditions that enabled her to choose to cheat again are largely the same as they were, except, next time she knows she can get away with it. For the first time cheater there is the fear you will get caught or your SO will notice.

But she's got her game working now, so next time she can cheat without worry.


----------



## that_girl

She doesn't have a great marriage.

She's lying to her husband. She's holding things back. She got "caught up" in another man's attention (ya. Ok. She chose to have sex). 

Great marriage? I'd rather have an honest one (which I'm learning), than a awesome looking fake one.


----------



## that_girl

She doesn't have a great marriage.

She's lying to her husband. She's holding things back. She got "caught up" in another man's attention (ya. Ok. She chose to have sex). And after said sex, she didn't feel the need to tell him.  She decided that saving her ass was more important than him knowing that she slept with another man. 

Great marriage? I'd rather have an honest one (which I'm learning), than a awesome looking fake one.


----------



## Wiserforit

I ratted on my own brother. But it was an ongoing affair. 

Not the instant I found out, but it just ate at me so I told my sister in law. She hung up the phone, marched straight to their little hideaway and busted them in bed together.

A one night stand long past? I wouldn't have told her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I don't know if she'll cheat, but I think she might. I didn't at first and I was on the fence about telling, that's why I didn't say "yes" or "no." I think she may be close to cheating again. It may have been a one time "mistake," but I think the AP returned or they are back in contact.

Why? Well, I read the thread again, your responses and something jumped out.

The thread title:
My best friend *confessed to cheating a year ago. *Do I tell her husband? 
NOBODY knew, as far as you know, why risk the affair coming to light? If she is a 20 year friend, she knew what you went through, why would she suddenly dump this in your lap? She knew your problems and she still told you after a year. I think the issue has arisen again or she actually had another "ONS." I know she is your friend, but I don't believe it was her crumbling on day 366. Oh, I believe she will tell you that, but I believe she is in trouble.

To me, it is time to test the friendship. Tell her she needs to tell her husband. I'd be blunt and ask "why did you tell me a year later, it's about to happen again isn't it or it already did?"


----------



## JCD

3putt said:


> You really don't need statistics to see how this could pan out. If you did something wrong (like adultery), and got away with it, would you be more likely to do it again than if you didn't get caught?
> 
> It's called accountability, and when there is none, the likelihood of a repeat performance rises _drastically_.


I.E. don't make me prove what was said.


----------



## tom67

I'm wondering if the BH can't have kids-low sperm count- and she subconsciously is wanting to get pregnant because the bioclock is ticking? Not an excuse just sayin. Sigh-yes I would tell.


----------



## Catherine602

Everyone is vulnerable to cheating. I think we all meet people who attract us strongly throughout our lives. 

Under the right circumstances, infidelity can happen. Some people have little self-control, feel entitled, insecure, lack the ability to commit etc. 

People who are basically good and committed, don't understand the nature of human beings. We are all capable of deception and selfishness to some degree. 

We all need validation and admiration. Players know that. They home in on people who don't know their own needs and healthy ways to meet them. 

Remaining faithful is a choice. It's made fully knowing that you are capable of cheating under the right circumstances. 

I think you should be weary of a partner who says they could never cheat. They really believe that. But that means that when the inevitable occurs, they will be unprepared. 

Developing strategies to nip these normal human attractions in the bud is a conscious choice. Its a commitment to resort to any means necessary to respect yourself, your partner and family.


----------



## calvin

Before I was cheated on I probably would have stayed out of it.
Maybe even with a good friend,I'd have a talken to them for sure.
I still feel I would give them the choice,you tell or I do.
Now that I know how bad infidelity can cut and how long it takes to heal
I deffinately would tell if my friend didnt.

Would you want to know?
It is true if someone gets away with something without any repercussions,
The odds are they will do it again,yes its possible they wont but if they are really remorseful
and feel guilty they will talk to who is supposed to be the most important person in their life......ever.
The BS has a right to know,there are no secrets in marriage....not supposed to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

JCD,

To my mind it's not the act but the deception that is most damaging. For the OP to be complicit in that deception is at the very least problematic. I recall the thread you are referencing and the issue was the same there. It was not the act of kissing that was causing that man pain. It was the 20 year deception. A ONS can be forgiven I'm sure. But the lie is what will doom this friend's marriage. If I were the OP I would not want to be around for the implosion.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> JCD,
> 
> To my mind it's not the act but the deception that is most damaging. For the OP to be complicit in that deception is at the very least problematic. I recall the thread you are referencing and the issue was the same there. It was not the act of kissing that was causing that man pain. It was the 20 year deception. A ONS can be forgiven I'm sure. But the lie is what will doom this friend's marriage. If I were the OP I would not want to be around for the implosion.


:iagree::iagree: BINGO plus what else did she not tell him.


----------



## Thor

bfree said:


> To my mind it's not the act but the deception that is most damaging.


Yes! I have stated this in other threads about my wife. She had sex with other men before me. If she had an affair it is just another data point. That is, the sex is not the problem. If it were, she would have been rejected initially by me for not being a virgin.

The problem is the betrayal. The lies. The inability to trust her going forward. The sex plays into it from the standpoint of risking my health without my knowledge, which is a betrayal of my trust. The sex plays into it because sex is supposed to be exclusive per our agreement in the wedding vows. Thus the affair sex is a betrayal of trust.

The sex was the behavior which revealed her inner character.


----------



## EleGirl

I see a problem with the OP telling the friend's husband. The OP has no hard evidence. Her friend could lie to her husband and accuse the OP of turning on her for whatever reason she drums up.


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> I see a problem with the OP telling the friend's husband. The OP has no hard evidence. Her friend could lie to her husband and accuse the OP of turning on her for whatever reason she drums up.


I believe the OP has said she is going to encourage her friend to tell the husband the truth. If her BF refuses to come clean then I would remove myself as her friend. I agree that revealing to the husband will most likely not yield any results. The most I would do in that situation is to tell the husband that I can no longer be friends with his wife and that they need to have a serious talk regarding their marriage. Then bow out and leave it at that. Hopefully it will spur the wife on to reveal her indiscretion.


----------



## Deejo

CEL said:


> A lot of assumptions. I would be careful everyone on how you state your opinion as I am sure the mods are watching.


----------



## jay_gatsby

Hortensia said:


> I find that the only hypocrisy here is to claim you care so much about her BH. Generally I notice that people here that claim they would rat out anyone who has, or had an affair is not because they give a [email protected] about the BS...but because the situation in question triggers their own anger and unsolved issues. Your screen name being "still coping", maybe this is the case?
> Just saying.
> 
> As for the obnoxious comment. The only thing obnoxious is to be rude toward others with different views.
> 
> Third and the last...friends are supposed to be there at hard times not only good times. To listen to you and advice you, to help you back to the right path, not to rat you out and betray your trust with the secrets you confided in them.
> I would hate to have you as a friend...


:iagree:
I think we all have differing views here. Some are looking at it from the BH's eyes and because of their own personal history have a very strong sense of what they think is the right thing to do. I understand their desire to inform the BH because they see it as the BH. The issue here is the OP and her friendship to the WS, not the BH.


----------



## tom67

Why would she mention it to her knowing she was/is a bs? Very selfish on her part imo so I think it would be time to find a new friend.


----------



## Dyokemm

I hope everyone here can take a breath and calm down a little.

While I am on the side of honesty and disclosure in this situation, I certainly can respect the right of others to see things differently.

Yesterday I posted that I was disturbed that some posters who were on the side of disclosure were being accused of arrogance and self-righteousness.

Today, I see equally uncalled for jibes being thrown at people on the other side of the issue.

I think everyone should relax a little and respect the fact that everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions in life, and no one should be berated for expressing those views.

Since I have been on TAM, I have had some of the most valuable exchanges with others who I have actually disagreed with on some opinions and views.

But I respect and am thankful for those interactions (thinking specifically of you Lenzi and ThePhoenix) because they make me analyze and challenge my own views and consider other possibilities, and I appreciate that.

Though we disagreed on some things, they were nothing but friendly and respectful.

And I know that all of us here, no matter if we disagree on some issues, are here because we care about helping others to reach a future place of peace and acceptance with the hurtful things that have occurred.


----------



## hibiscus

LostViking said:


> Separating her married life from her cheating life is exactly what she did. It is called compartmentalization and cheaters are hard wired with this ability. That's how she could spread her legs for another man while claiming to love her husband. She was not thinking of her husband when she was banging this guy. She was in heat and lust and enjoyed every dirty second of it. Then on the way home the walls collapsed and she realized the severity of what she did. Now by not coming clean she has given herself the time to go back and rationalyze what she did. Then she will eventually come up with reasons as to why she was entitled to do what she did. Not now, but eventually.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gosh it hurts to read this because this is what my partner did to me a year ago. But I have more respect for him than my best friend because at least he confessed immediately and is doing whatever he can to make amends. Mind you it was written all over his face that he had done something terribly wrong! There was no hiding it.

How the hell can she hide this from him?


----------



## hibiscus

that_girl said:


> She doesn't have a great marriage.
> 
> She's lying to her husband. She's holding things back. She got "caught up" in another man's attention (ya. Ok. She chose to have sex).
> 
> Great marriage? I'd rather have an honest one (which I'm learning), than a awesome looking fake one.


I thought she had a great marriage. But not now. Its become complicated


----------



## hibiscus

3putt said:


> We are all wired to cheat. No one is immune from it. I've read that somewhere around 95% of all affairs start by accident.
> 
> Most people just don't wake up one morning and decide to cheat on their spouse. It's simply a matter of loose boundaries and ALLOWING someone other than your spouse to meet your most basic emotional needs. When this happens, it's that snowball effect that starts to take command until the next logical step is the point of no return.
> 
> Don't delude yourself into thinking that you could never do it. Would love to see some comments from some of the former waywards around here that had that same belief about themselves.
> 
> 
> I'm betting you'd be surprised.


Exactly. Loose boundaries and ALLOWING someone else to meet your basic needs. Well I DONT do that. I always think ahead even when I am surrounded by temptation.

I have had ample opportunity to cheat on my WS. I could have had a rebound affair after he cheated on me. But I chose not to.
When we got back together eventually he didn't touch me for five months. I was soooo sexually frustrated! During this time three lovely young men got in contact with me but I didn't take any of their offers.

I wouldn't jeopardise a strong solid relationship for some frivolous meaningless night of sex. Never.


----------



## hibiscus

MattMatt said:


> I couldn't cheat, either, hibiscus.
> 
> However, imagine my dismay when I discovered that I could cheat and did cheat...


Mattmatt I don't know your entire history but I am assuming you cheated because you were confused.

But I have been cheated on twice in my lifetime and it hurts like mad. I would never never never never put this kind of pain onto another person. If the relationship is bad then we work on our problems. If it cant be solved then we part without a third party involved.

Anyway I am meeting up with my best friend in an hour or so. I have a lot to say to her


----------



## calvin

hibiscus said:


> Mattmatt I don't know your entire history but I am assuming you cheated because you were confused.
> 
> But I have been cheated on twice in my lifetime and it hurts like mad. I would never never never never put this kind of pain onto another person. If the relationship is bad then we work on our problems. If it cant be solved then we part without a third party involved.
> 
> Anyway I am meeting up with my best friend in an hour or so. I have a lot to say to her


Twice?? Damn I'm sorry to hear that hibiscus,you know how hard it is.
Hope the meeting goes well with your friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScubaSteve61

Definitely encourage her to tell. I would want to know. I had to find out everything I ended up knowing on my own, and I probably only found out 10% of everything there was before I quit digging.


----------



## theroad

3putt said:


> It would appear she had her mind made up before even coming here and asking what she should do. Of course, that begs the question: Why did she pose the question and waste everyone's time when her course of action was already predetermined?
> 
> :scratchhead:


Because sometimes people do not want advice. Under the cloak of asking for advice what they want to hear is confirmation for what they want to do.


----------



## LostViking

theroad said:


> Because sometimes people do not want advice. Under the cloak of asking for advice what they want to hear is confirmation for what they want to do.


I don't think that is what is going on here. She just said she was confronting her friend today. Read the whole thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## toonaive

theroad said:


> 78% of marriages that had an affair do not end in divorce.
> 
> You know the importance for a BS to get the truth. You telling the BH will not end the marriage. Her affair did the damage. This is a time bomb getting ready to go off with a kid getting involved. This couple will not be ready to adopt until the affair is exposed and the recovery work is done.
> 
> If you know about affairs. WS usually falls off the wagon and has another affair when there are no consequences for cheating.
> 
> This WW has not done the work to recover and learn how to have boundaries to prevent further affairs. She will not do this work because you are enabling here to stay deceptive.


This!:iagree: This marriage is already headed towards ending. Her guilt is already getting to her. By involving you she is trying to make herself feel a little better. Her love for her husband will slowly wither away and she will not want to be around him. Why? Because each and every time she is around him it will remind her of her cheating. Her resentment towards her husband will build. She will eventually cheat again to make herself feel better for a few moments. Add a child into this marriage will be like throwing gasoline onto a candle. 

Years down the road when her husband finds out, and he will. His soul will be crushed in so many ways. But, His sense of self will be shattered. He will second guess every decision he made during his whole marriage. He will wonder what he could have ever done so wrong for her to hurt him this way. It is a pain that no good man wants another to ever experience. It is crushing. 

Only you can decide what to do with this information. But. The longer it is put off, the worse for him it will get. Thats guaranteed! Unfortunately, your friend has now made you culpable.


----------



## JMGrey

hibiscus said:


> Gosh it hurts to read this because this is what my partner did to me a year ago. But I have more respect for him than my best friend because at least he confessed immediately and is doing whatever he can to make amends. Mind you it was written all over his face that he had done something terribly wrong! There was no hiding it.
> 
> How the hell can she hide this from him?


She can hide this from him quite easily because she's scared about losing her situation. Not her marriage, mind you, but her situation. Ideally marriage meets your physical and emotional needs. Clearly, she has looked outside of her marriage for both to one degree or another. However well-matched she and her husband may have seemed externally, a person who is getting their emotional needs, especially sexual desirability and affirmation of worth, met in their marriage will generally be unreceptive to the offer of having them met by a third party.

Instead, your friend will not tell her husband because she is afraid of losing the fulfillment of her material needs, and the affirmation that comes of being thought of as a good wife and prospective mother. I couldn't venture more of a guess without additional information, but your friend is a classic example of a cake-eater that's rationalized an affair because she's unwilling to look into the mirror and see a cheater.


----------



## bfree

toonaive said:


> This!:iagree: This marriage is already headed towards ending. Her guilt is already getting to her. By involving you she is trying to make herself feel a little better. Her love for her husband will slowly wither away and she will not want to be around him. Why? Because each and every time she is around him it will remind her of her cheating. Her resentment towards her husband will build. She will eventually cheat again to make herself feel better for a few moments. Add a child into this marriage will be like throwing gasoline onto a candle.
> 
> Years down the road when her husband finds out, and he will. His soul will be crushed in so many ways. But, His sense of self will be shattered. He will second guess every decision he made during his whole marriage. He will wonder what he could have ever done so wrong for her to hurt him this way. It is a pain that no good man wants another to ever experience. It is crushing.
> 
> Only you can decide what to do with this information. But. The longer it is put off, the worse for him it will get. Thats guaranteed! Unfortunately, your friend has now made you culpable.


Agreed. One theme that is constant around here is that the BS considers the marriage to be false up to and until the day when the truth finally comes out. So the husband in this case will consider this past year to be a joke his wife has played upon their marriage. The longer the deception goes on the deeper the injury. When the false years seem to outweigh the "good" years the chances to recover the marriage are greatly diminished.


----------



## serenesoul

OP, do you think that your own feelings from your partner cheating on you is influencing your desire to tell her husband? I believe she is wrong, but it does not seem right for you to interfere with their marriage. Encourage her to do what is right in this situation and leave it there.

Also, you see her marriage as a happy one but you really do not know. Sometimes people paint pretty pictures of their lives and it is not so. What if he is actually abusive and you trigger something terrible? I would stay out. Again, encourage her to do right but that's about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

serenesoul said:


> OP, do you think that your own feelings from your partner cheating on you is influencing your desire to tell her husband? I believe she is wrong, but it does not seem right for you to interfere with their marriage. Encourage her to do what is right in this situation and leave it there.
> 
> Also, you see her marriage as a happy one but you really do not know. Sometimes people paint pretty pictures of their lives and it is not so. What if he is actually abusive and you trigger something terrible? I would stay out. Again, encourage her to do right but that's about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It did cross my mind that I could potential trigger a bad reaction from him if I told him. I do know that some people react very aggressively. You see it in the newspapers all the time..BS committing murder etc. I don't want that on my head. 

Its been very insightful to read the posts on this thread and it has helped me make the decision of ending our friendship if my best friend doesn't confess. 

We had a long talk yesterday and I told her that I no longer wish to socialise with her and her husband if nothing changes.I told her she needs to see a councillor and make amends with her hubby..to stop the adoption process in the meantime.She was clearly upset. We both were. ;-(

I doubt she will tell him so I am guessing that I have lost my friend for good. Did I do the right thing? No idea. But its the best I can do out of this situation. It just sucks all round. I am the innocent one but has to lose out no matter what the outcome


----------



## hibiscus

So the outcome is that its not my responsibility but solely my best friends to tell.

But my 20 year friendship has ended so she may as well have cheated on me. Massive loss. ;-(


----------



## Whip Morgan

You did a good thing hibiscus and I know it wasn't easy. Her attempting to bring a child into her family when she is living a lie is a cruel, selfish thing to do. And changing departments in her job doesn't matter- she still works with her affair partner.

I think you realized the truth of the matter: she is far more concerned for herself than she is for what she has done to her husband. Personally, I would have told her husband. However I understand your decision and I commend you for confronting her. Hopefully your words and the intent behind them will help guide her to making the right decision to confess


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> You did a good thing hibiscus and I know it wasn't easy. Her attempting to bring a child into her family when she is living a lie is a cruel, selfish thing to do. And changing departments in her job doesn't matter- she still works with her affair partner.
> 
> I think you realized the truth of the matter: she is far more concerned for herself than she is for what she has done to her husband. Personally, I would have told her husband. However I understand your decision and I commend you for confronting her. Hopefully your words and the intent behind them will help guide her to making the right decision to confess


He will find out eventually because he is going to wonder why I am no longer in their lives. Best friends don't just disappear out of the blue. He will know its something very serious as she is like a sister to me. Or was. But she will prob come up with some **** and bull story. If he confronts me with it then I will tell him that he needs to get the real truth from his wife. 

I have done my part.


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> You did a good thing hibiscus and I know it wasn't easy. Her attempting to bring a child into her family when she is living a lie is a cruel, selfish thing to do. And changing departments in her job doesn't matter- she still works with her affair partner.
> 
> I think you realized the truth of the matter: she is far more concerned for herself than she is for what she has done to her husband. Personally, I would have told her husband. However I understand your decision and I commend you for confronting her. Hopefully your words and the intent behind them will help guide her to making the right decision to confess


He will find out eventually because he is going to wonder why I am no longer in their lives. Best friends don't just disappear out of the blue. He will know its something very serious as she is like a sister to me. Or was. But she will prob come up with some **** and bull story. If he confronts me with it then I will tell him that he needs to get the real truth from his wife. 

I have done my part.


----------



## workindad

Loss is a tough thing to deal with. If she chooses to protect her own butt over your relationship with her then that speaks volumes about her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

I personally think you did the right thing. And don't assume you've lost your best friend forever. In the near future when it comes out you might reconcile with her and have an even deeper friendship.


----------



## Whip Morgan

He may also catch her cheating in the future. Considering her proven willingness to cheat and the fact that she continues to work with her affair partner, it's a distinct possibility she will continue to cheat. And she may be caught. 

I also agree with bfree above- this isn't certain the friendship will be over forever. In time she may realize how good a friend you are and pull it together. It's also possible she may heed your advice and confess. Time will tell
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Another option would be to tell her that if her H asks you about the breakdown of the friendship, you wouldn't lie for her.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> It did cross my mind that I could potential trigger a bad reaction from him if I told him. I do know that some people react very aggressively. You see it in the newspapers all the time..BS committing murder etc. I don't want that on my head.
> 
> Its been very insightful to read the posts on this thread and it has helped me make the decision of ending our friendship if my best friend doesn't confess.
> 
> We had a long talk yesterday and I told her that I no longer wish to socialise with her and her husband if nothing changes.I told her she needs to see a councillor and make amends with her hubby..to stop the adoption process in the meantime.She was clearly upset. We both were. ;-(
> 
> I doubt she will tell him so I am guessing that I have lost my friend for good. Did I do the right thing? No idea. But its the best I can do out of this situation. It just sucks all round. I am the innocent one but has to lose out no matter what the outcome


How did she react ? Did she say anything ?

Also, does this friend have a job ?


----------



## hibiscus

bfree said:


> I personally think you did the right thing. And don't assume you've lost your best friend forever. In the near future when it comes out you might reconcile with her and have an even deeper friendship.


To be honest I think our friendship came to a stop when she told me. My perception of her has changed. Disappointment in her strength of character. I always thought she was better than that. 
PLus she put me in a real situation by dumping this crap onto me. I don't respect the fact that she is hiding this from her husband either. She is a coward.

If she confessed and tried to make amends with her husband then I would 100% support her...admire her even for having the guts to say so... 

But if she carries on like nothing has happened then there is no way I can socialise with the two of them.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

hibiscus said:


> So the outcome is that its not my responsibility but solely my best friends to tell.
> 
> But my 20 year friendship has ended so she may as well have cheated on me. Massive loss. ;-(


You did the right thing. At minimum she is living with at least one consequence of her actions. Don't let her lie to you to get your friendship back though. I expect that will be her next step. She can't be trusted as you know and her H will eventually learn.


----------



## hibiscus

warlock07 said:


> How did she react ? Did she say anything ?
> 
> Also, does this friend have a job ?


She listened to what I had to say..I told her that me and my partner are working it out because he told me straight away of his ONS. If I had found out through someone else or much later then the chances of me giving him a second chance would have been next to zero.
Our R is based on honesty, communication and recommitted love. I told her it could work out but she needs to be honest.

But she is adamant that her H will walk out. That's when I told her that I don't want a part of this.Then she explained again that it was a one off. Then she started crying...it was awful.

yes she works full time


----------



## hibiscus

nogutsnoglory said:


> You did the right thing. At minimum she is living with at least one consequence of her actions. Don't let her lie to you to get your friendship back though. I expect that will be her next step. She can't be trusted as you know and her H will eventually learn.


How could she lie?


----------



## hibiscus

At the same time I feel I have abandoned her :-(


----------



## workindad

It is her choice to exit the friendship. 

If she will do this to her husband she will also screw you over when she feels that it would be to her best interest. 

You should give her a chance to do the right thing. Your friendship may not be over. She may get her head out of her arse. 

If not, then her character is lacking and you are better off without her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jay_gatsby

hibiscus said:


> At the same time I feel I have abandoned her :-(


You did what you thought was the right thing. In the end she will realize how much of good friend you are to her. It may take her a while, but good friends are like old luggage, they stick around for a long time. Only a matter of time before she goes up to the attic!

I am happy you did not go over her directly to husband.


----------



## doubletrouble

Very tough situation to be in, hibiscus. And you have a great loss either way, as does your friend's BS. 

My W told me she would never have told me (I did some serious snooping and found out on my own) _because she was protecting my heart._ But she admitted just yesterday that she finally figured out she was protecting herSELF, not me. Of course I knew this...

I don't know if anyone else knew (other than POSOM obviously), but I intend to ask if her daughter knew, because that would be a betrayal from yet one more person I love. I wonder if I'll get the truth; they are very close and I know they don't want to BOTH be in that basket with me looking at them completely differently from what I'd come to know them as for the last seven years. 

It's a tough situation. I think you did the right thing, for what it's worth. If I knew my best friend (I've known for over 30 years) had done something like that, I know I would have a VERY difficult time with it, and eventually would HAVE to do the right thing, as you have done. 

I hope I'm never tested like that.


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> If she confessed and tried to make amends with her husband then I would 100% support her...admire her even for having the guts to say so...
> 
> But if she carries on like nothing has happened then there is no way I can socialise with the two of them.


I hope you made both clear to her.


----------



## Jasel

I think you handled that the best way you could have. That's a really tough spot to be in.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

hibiscus said:


> At the same time I feel I have abandoned her :-(


You didn't. You mentioned earlier that you felt betrayed, because you were.

You're friends actions in telling you were completely self serving to her. Her guilt got the best of her one moment and she needed to let it out. She didn't consider how this would affect YOU, by her telling you, her actions were 100% to take care of her needs....(sound familiar).

Assuming it was TRULY a one off (which I struggle believing), I'd be fairly confident she'll go back to it.

Lets assume her husband is meeting all her needs and the only thing not in the relationship is that "new love feeling." Well an old marriage can't bring in the "new love feeling". So that need of hers exists and can't be met by her marriage. Additionally, she's EXTREMELY selfish, as she's shown on many levels. Couple those two ingredients with having no consequences that last time....it's not a good mixture.


----------



## LostViking

I think you did the right thing. Friendships can be renewed and mended. This may not be the end. Hopefully she will come to her senses and comes clean to her husband before she cheats again down the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

You said your husband and the BH are friends, right? Is this bothering you to keep it from your husband? Would it bother your husband to find out that you knew and didn't tell him?

Just warning you of other possible repercussions to your own marriage.


----------



## CEL

Hey habiscus I have been there I know what you are going through. I really do me and my best friend did reconcile after about a year. You have to be able to respect your friends and sometimes people change or do something that makes that no longer possible. But that does not mean that can't change back.

Have faith that you best friend will find her way out.


----------



## moto

hibiscus: 


I have very similar story to you, but I am the BS in my story. Most of my ww friends knew about it before our weddings and kept the secrets for 5 years. Once I found about about it and the lies my ww & her friends told me. I resent every single one of her friends and still a year after DD (DD was yesterday) it taken me many of IC sessions to just control my anger towards everyone that I thought was for our marriage! 

I'm glad to read that you gave your best friend the "Tell him or I'm gone speech" because I wished my ww came and told before I marriage her. Yes it would've hurt, but it would hurt a lot less then what I went through for years..... (read my story) 

Please stick to your morals/honor, because from what I read, I'm wish my ww had more friends like you!

:smthumbup:


----------



## Samus

This is your best friend and instead of giving her support and assistance you abandoned her in her time of need. You should of just said your piece like you did and leave it at that. Why abandon her because she doesn't want to go through with it? Why stop being her friend? 

Either way if it plays out and she does tell her husband and make up with him, she will never confide in you again if you guys become friends again. She might cheat, but you will never know. 

The best thing and right thing to do was to tell her to tell her husband and that is it, don't leave her friendship or stop being friends. People make mistakes. 

I know if any of my friends betrayed me like that they were truly not my friend. Most folks here are biased and don't look at the other spectrum. It is not your place to tell her husband. It is your place to tell her to do the right thing. It is also your decision to stop being friends, but it sounds like you guys were strong friends and went through tough times together looking out for each other. I would rethink your strategy here, cheating or not, this is your best friend and she needs you.

Let her tell her husband, stay friends.!! By the way she didn't have to tell you. She could of taking it to her grave, but like you said, you both confided in each other, you love each other, your best friends for god's sake. Is there no meaning to that?


----------



## Squeakr

Samus said:


> This is your best friend and instead of giving her support and assistance you abandoned her in her time of need. You should of just said your piece like you did and leave it at that. Why abandon her because she doesn't want to go through with it? Why stop being her friend?
> 
> Either way if it plays out and she does tell her husband and make up with him, she will never confide in you again if you guys become friends again. She might cheat, but you will never know.
> 
> The best thing and right thing to do was to tell her to tell her husband and that is it, don't leave her friendship or stop being friends. People make mistakes.
> 
> I know if any of my friends betrayed me like that they were truly not my friend. Most folks here are biased and don't look at the other spectrum. It is not your place to tell her husband. It is your place to tell her to do the right thing. It is also your decision to stop being friends, but it sounds like you guys were strong friends and went through tough times together looking out for each other. I would rethink your strategy here, cheating or not, this is your best friend and she needs you.
> 
> Let her tell her husband, stay friends.!! By the way she didn't have to tell you. She could of taking it to her grave, but like you said, you both confided in each other, you love each other, your best friends for god's sake. Is there no meaning to that?



The OP made her decision (and I would say a good one as she didn't sacrifice her morals., standards, or self esteem at the hands of another) so what good does it do to belittle and cut her down by stating everything you think she did that was wrong? You act like she owes her friend something special because of years worth of friendship. Let me ask you a questions, so her friend confided in her. Should the friend not have thought twice about dumping on her after everything she has gone through and experienced with infidelity? DId she not owe the OP the same sort of consideration? After years worth of marriages, doesn't the friend owe it to her BH to tell him? You make it sound as i this is something the OP chose and brought on herself. No it was thrust upon her, she didn't ask for it, so why should she suffer (had she of begged the information out of the friend then she would have some responsibility for being told.)

Everyone is saying that she owes some sort of loyalty to her friend. Where was the friends loyalty by dumping this on her and then asking her to behave in a way that she knows would be against the OP's better judgement and morality? Why is everyone that is judging this, viewing it from a sense of owed loyalty. It seems that we are holding the OP to a tighter standard than we expect of her friend. If best friendship is such a strong bond and honored/ cherished thing (close to the same level as marriage, like maybe one rung lower), then shouldn't the friendship bond and expectations go both ways??

In my case, I would have told (and have done this in the past, but that is me and not the same for everyone). I just don't see where the loyalty only applies to the OP. The friend has the same loyalties to her BH and yet she is not the least concerned about him, only about her needs and her own selfishness. Then she dumps this time bomb on the OP and expects the OP to not say anything. The friend needs to get professional help to deal with this and stop relying on her friends for cheap counseling. Why should she be required to be loyal to a friend that shows no loyalty in other areas of her life. I too bet that it wasn't just a ONS, but that after seeing your disappointment and reaction, she couldn't reveal the rest. Everyone keeps referring to the happiness in the marriage, but I agree if it was truly happy then she wouldn't have strayed and is now making the BH live a lie.


I applaud you, Hibiscus for doing what you felt was the best for you and the situation. In the end, it is how you view yourself that matters for your own mental health and if you sacrifice that at the hands of another it will eat at you forever. I hope that your friend can realize this before it is too late and forgive you for what she did to you and the situation she dropped you into.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Samus said:


> This is your best friend and instead of giving her support and assistance you abandoned her in her time of need. You should of just said your piece like you did and leave it at that. Why abandon her because she doesn't want to go through with it? Why stop being her friend?
> 
> Either way if it plays out and she does tell her husband and make up with him, she will never confide in you again if you guys become friends again. She might cheat, but you will never know.
> 
> The best thing and right thing to do was to tell her to tell her husband and that is it, don't leave her friendship or stop being friends. People make mistakes.
> 
> I know if any of my friends betrayed me like that they were truly not my friend. Most folks here are biased and don't look at the other spectrum. It is not your place to tell her husband. It is your place to tell her to do the right thing. It is also your decision to stop being friends, but it sounds like you guys were strong friends and went through tough times together looking out for each other. I would rethink your strategy here, cheating or not, this is your best friend and she needs you.
> 
> Let her tell her husband, stay friends.!! By the way she didn't have to tell you. She could of taking it to her grave, but like you said, you both confided in each other, you love each other, your best friends for god's sake. Is there no meaning to that?


So if your best friend admitted to you they cheated on their spouse and had no intention of ever telling them, that would have been okay to you? Could you have really look the BS in the eye, be friendly with them, hang out in their house, etc and not feel guilty for what you know? Would you really want to go through that? Suppose your friend said it was a one time thing and it would never happen again. Well it happened once and thats enough, are you willing to play parole officer for an indefinite amount of time to hold them to that?

Someone thats been your best friend for 20 years is basically like a sibling to you. But I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my integrity or moral code for their selfishness and cowardice. Other than walk away from the friendship or tell the BS I don't see how she leaves this situation with her integrity and morals intact. 

Oh and don't say cheating is a mistake. Unless someone is blackout drunk it was a conscious decision on their part. They knew exactly what the hell they were doing.


----------



## toonaive

larry.gray said:


> You said your husband and the BH are friends, right? Is this bothering you to keep it from your husband? Would it bother your husband to find out that you knew and didn't tell him?
> 
> Just warning you of other possible repercussions to your own
> marriage.


Your husband will eventually wonder why you are no longer socializing with her. I agree with the above quote. This does have potentially serious repercussions to your own marriage. You still have some other work to do.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Refuse to be played said:


> So if your best friend admitted to you they cheated on their spouse and had no intention of ever telling them, that would have been okay to you? Could you have really look the BS in the eye, be friendly with them, hang out in their house, etc and not feel guilty for what you know? Would you really want to go through that? Suppose your friend said it was a one time thing and it would never happen again. Well it happened once and thats enough, are you willing to play parole officer for an indefinite amount of time to hold them to that?
> 
> Someone thats been your best friend for 20 years is basically like a sibling to you. But I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my integrity or moral code for their selfishness and cowardice. Other than walk away from the friendship or tell the BS I don't see how she leaves this situation with her integrity and morals intact.
> 
> Oh and don't say cheating is a mistake. Unless someone is blackout drunk it was a conscious decision on their part. They knew exactly what the hell they were doing.


These posts and the ones like them that have been removed are out of line.

You disagree, thats fine. You make it personal, that isnt.

These circumstances suck for anyone involved. 

Keep it civil or dont post.


----------



## TRy

hibiscus said:


> At the same time I feel I have abandoned her :-(


 Ironically, your actions have made the odds of her cheating again go down. The lost of her friendship with you was a serious consequence that will internalize just how serious a betrayal she committed. It may even motivate her to tell her husband. When the husband does learn of it, either from her or some other way, renewing your friendship will be possible because you would not be tainted in the husbands eyes and in fact can be a positive force to help them both heal.

Although you did the right thing, it still sucks to be you right now. Be well. You are a good person. I wish my wife had you as a friend.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Samus said:


> This is your best friend and instead of giving her support and assistance you abandoned her in her time of need.


Time of need was a year ago. Let's flip the script. If they were bff's why did she not seek this support a YEAR ago?

Just saying, this Bff badge is being swung around as a hammer. My good friends tell me important stuff hours or days after it happens. A year? How good friends are we that you hid something for a year? Like I said earlier, something made her SUDDENLY divulge this information.


----------



## Samus

Refuse to be played said:


> So if your best friend admitted to you they cheated on their spouse and had no intention of ever telling them, that would have been okay to you? Could you have really look the BS in the eye, be friendly with them, hang out in their house, etc and not feel guilty for what you know? Would you really want to go through that? Suppose your friend said it was a one time thing and it would never happen again. Well it happened once and thats enough, are you willing to play parole officer for an indefinite amount of time to hold them to that?
> 
> Someone thats been your best friend for 20 years is basically like a sibling to you. But I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my integrity or moral code for their selfishness and cowardice. Other than walk away from the friendship or tell the BS I don't see how she leaves this situation with her integrity and morals intact.
> 
> Oh and don't say cheating is a mistake. Unless someone is blackout drunk it was a conscious decision on their part. They knew exactly what the hell they were doing.



I agree with the way she handled this. I didn't say otherwise. All I said was that I think she should remain friends. After all it is her best friend. I find that people throw the Best Friend title around like it has no meaning. A best friend is like a sibling, your correct. Thus you don't betray you friend by telling there spouse. The spouse was and is not her best friend. Would it be awkward to be amongst both of them in a setting, sure. 

The only people I see that wants her to tell the husband is the biased BS who won't look at any other resolution. I think it is fair to say that if someone cheated on anyone, I would defintely want to be told by friends, the WW/WH and not be kept in the dark. However people have the right to do what they think is best to protect themselves from being lashed out at for being the hero. 

Just because we want our friends to tell us that our WH/WW cheated on us, doens't mean they have to and it doesn't mean its the right thing to do in there eyes, that is our own selfish feelings that everyone in the group of friends, owe me that much. 

Its kind of like the good samaritan who goes to help someone out of a exploding car, or help someone in a emergency situation and gets sued for it because something happened, or they weren't certified. I give CPR but I wasn't certified and damaged someone's lungs by pumping there chest, however I saved there life and they will recover, yet I get sued. No good deed goes unpunished!!

There are numerous reasons for people to not get involved because there are alot of selfish and vindictive people, inlcuding BS/BH's. 

I agree OP did the right thing by giving her friend the advice she needed, but shouldn't be even concerned anymore about how it filters through to her. OP even agreed it was a mistake and her friend is remorseful, but understand the reality of it and that her husband would leave if the friend told. Either way, it is the responsiblity of the cheater to tell the cheated, not some third party person who wants to cause drama.


----------



## Samus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Time of need was a year ago. Let's flip the script. If they were bff's why did she not seek this support a YEAR ago?
> 
> Just saying, this Bff badge is being swung around as a hammer. My good friends tell me important stuff hours or days after it happens. A year? How good friends are we that you hid something for a year? Like I said earlier, something made her SUDDENLY divulge this information.


I think she felt guilty and has been debating over this for a while and eventually decided to tell her BFF. Honestly when someone cheats, its the worst offense in a marriage and to share it with anyone outside of yourself is not an easy thing to do. Also this friend knows OP went through this situation and was probably afraid and nervous about confiding with her, because she feared that the OP would tell her husband. 

There could be many reasons, but the BFF eventually confided in the OP to possibly give her direction and advice on how to either move on, or confront. Abandoning the friend does not offer the benefit of getting or to tell her husband. I think if OP continues being friends and continues pushing and dicussing how morally wrong it is, eventually the BFF will crack as the OP stated, she is a good person. 

Now with the OP out of her life, the opportunity to let this air out may never happen and the BFF will take it to the grave, and its a total lose-lose situation. 

Being friends with someone for 20+ years is not something you just drop because they broke your moral code. Clearly moral codes are broken all the time throughout a friendship, but its the bond that keeps you together and the help to make each other better that keeps you going. 

Also the BFF knows her husband way better then the OP and knows the end result will be divorce, cause her husband sounds like me, I don't look back, you cheat, your gone. 

OP what would you like the outcome of this situation to be, knowing that your friend's husband will leave her once she tells him? She will be devastated as will her husband, what do you want for your friend?


----------



## jay_gatsby

Samus said:


> I agree with the way she handled this. I didn't say otherwise. All I said was that I think she should remain friends. After all it is her best friend. I find that people throw the Best Friend title around like it has no meaning. A best friend is like a sibling, your correct. Thus you don't betray you friend by telling there spouse. The spouse was and is not her best friend. Would it be awkward to be amongst both of them in a setting, sure.
> 
> The only people I see that wants her to tell the husband is the biased BS who won't look at any other resolution. I think it is fair to say that if someone cheated on anyone, I would defintely want to be told by friends, the WW/WH and not be kept in the dark. However people have the right to do what they think is best to protect themselves from being lashed out at for being the hero.
> 
> Just because we want our friends to tell us that our WH/WW cheated on us, doens't mean they have to and it doesn't mean its the right thing to do in there eyes, that is our own selfish feelings that everyone in the group of friends, owe me that much.
> 
> Its kind of like the good samaritan who goes to help someone out of a exploding car, or help someone in a emergency situation and gets sued for it because something happened, or they weren't certified. I give CPR but I wasn't certified and damaged someone's lungs by pumping there chest, however I saved there life and they will recover, yet I get sued. No good deed goes unpunished!!
> 
> There are numerous reasons for people to not get involved because there are alot of selfish and vindictive people, inlcuding BS/BH's.
> 
> I agree OP did the right thing by giving her friend the advice she needed, but shouldn't be even concerned anymore about how it filters through to her. OP even agreed it was a mistake and her friend is remorseful, but understand the reality of it and that her husband would leave if the friend told. Either way, it is the responsiblity of the cheater to tell the cheated, not some third party person who wants to cause drama.


:iagree:
Well said.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Samus said:


> I think she felt guilty and has been debating over this for a while and eventually decided to tell her BFF. Honestly when someone cheats, its the worst offense in a marriage and to share it with anyone outside of yourself is not an easy thing to do. Also this friend knows OP went through this situation and was probably afraid and nervous about confiding with her, because she feared that the OP would tell her husband.
> 
> There could be many reasons, but the BFF eventually confided in the OP to possibly give her direction and advice on how to either move on, or confront. Abandoning the friend does not offer the benefit of getting or to tell her husband. I think if OP continues being friends and continues pushing and dicussing how morally wrong it is, eventually the BFF will crack as the OP stated, she is a good person.
> 
> Now with the OP out of her life, the opportunity to let this air out may never happen and the BFF will take it to the grave, and its a total lose-lose situation.


 They stay friends and the BFF can still take it to the grave. Having continued discussions can end the friendship as well. There is no guarantee either way. This is not a simplistic situation.



> Being friends with someone for 20+ years is not something you just drop because they broke your moral code. Clearly moral codes are broken all the time throughout a friendship, but its the bond that keeps you together and the help to make each other better that keeps you going.


 We will agree to disagree. That's how you feel and I respect that, but it isn't for me. Morality is a reason to end a friendship.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Samus said:


> I think she felt guilty and has been debating over this for a while and eventually decided to tell her BFF. Honestly when someone cheats, its the worst offense in a marriage and to share it with anyone outside of yourself is not an easy thing to do. Also this friend knows OP went through this situation and was probably afraid and nervous about confiding with her, because she feared that the OP would tell her husband.
> 
> There could be many reasons, but the BFF eventually confided in the OP to possibly give her direction and advice on how to either move on, or confront. Abandoning the friend does not offer the benefit of getting or to tell her husband. I think if OP continues being friends and continues pushing and dicussing how morally wrong it is, eventually the BFF will crack as the OP stated, she is a good person.
> 
> Now with the OP out of her life, the opportunity to let this air out may never happen and the BFF will take it to the grave, and its a total lose-lose situation.
> 
> Being friends with someone for 20+ years is not something you just drop because they broke your moral code. Clearly moral codes are broken all the time throughout a friendship, but its the bond that keeps you together and the help to make each other better that keeps you going.
> 
> Also the BFF knows her husband way better then the OP and knows the end result will be divorce, cause her husband sounds like me, I don't look back, you cheat, your gone.
> 
> OP what would you like the outcome of this situation to be, knowing that your friend's husband will leave her once she tells him? She will be devastated as will her husband, what do you want for your friend?


I applaud your loyalty, but I believe it's misplaced. Where is the friend's ownership of telling the OP? The friend should've considered how telling the OP would impact them and she didn't, so to flip this, is this friend TRULY being a good friend through HER actions...I will always hold the person doing the first action more liable in a situation than the person reacting.

My best friend has been my best friend since 2nd grade. We're both 41 now. He's always been closer to me than my own brother.

He'd NEVER put me in the position this friend did to the OP where you either have to compromise your morals and integrity OR you have step back from the friend because you won't compromise yourself. It's not fair, it's not right and it's NOT being a friend.


----------



## The Traveler

If my best friend cheated on his wife and refused to tell her, I'd ask him to repeat his vows out loud (This would be to highlight the man he said he was and the man I see him as). I'd then tell him that he had to tell her, and if he didn't, at some point I would (unless a life changing event like adopting was coming up immediately) I would use the best friend card and tell him that I would be willing to sacrifice our friendship to do what is best for HIM. If he loved his wife he would give her the opportunity to make her own mind up instead of CONTROLLING her through deception as well as wasting his and her own live.

It does not matter one bit whether the act would not happen again; the act already happened. If the husband would leave if he found out.. isn't that HIS decision? Is he some pawn in a chess game? Some of the people here make me feel that I should distrust my own friends now that I see how many of them would hide something so greatly important from me. I do have one very very good friend who I know would not hie anything from me, thankfully. 

Now, if the person confiding in me was some guy or girl I knew for a few weeks or months, and I had no ties to this person, I wouldn't bother.


----------



## serenesoul

hibiscus said:


> It did cross my mind that I could potential trigger a bad reaction from him if I told him. I do know that some people react very aggressively. You see it in the newspapers all the time..BS committing murder etc. I don't want that on my head.
> 
> Its been very insightful to read the posts on this thread and it has helped me make the decision of ending our friendship if my best friend doesn't confess.
> 
> We had a long talk yesterday and I told her that I no longer wish to socialise with her and her husband if nothing changes.I told her she needs to see a councillor and make amends with her hubby..to stop the adoption process in the meantime.She was clearly upset. We both were. ;-(
> 
> I doubt she will tell him so I am guessing that I have lost my friend for good. Did I do the right thing? No idea. But its the best I can do out of this situation. It just sucks all round. I am the innocent one but has to lose out no matter what the outcome


Well, that was the best decision if it was too difficult to keep in confidence. That way whatever occurs from here on out has nothing to do with you. Sorry that it ended up this way.

I will be honest though. I do know things about close friends but never tried to force them into handling their situations in a particular manner. I choose to pray for them and let God do the convicting. They have been the same with me. There are things that my husband has done (EA, possibly PA) that has hurt me and it's likely that his brother knows. I dont expect his brother to tell me, because they are brothers. I expect him to advise, but not interfere (no ultimatum). So I can understand how she feels as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Samus said:


> I think she felt guilty and has been debating over this for a while and eventually decided to tell her BFF. Honestly when someone cheats, its the worst offense in a marriage and to share it with anyone outside of yourself is not an easy thing to do. Also this friend knows OP went through this situation and was probably afraid and nervous about confiding with her, because she feared that the OP would tell her husband.
> 
> There could be many reasons, but the BFF eventually confided in the OP to possibly give her direction and advice on how to either move on, or confront. Abandoning the friend does not offer the benefit of getting or to tell her husband. I think if OP continues being friends and continues pushing and dicussing how morally wrong it is, eventually the BFF will crack as the OP stated, she is a good person.
> 
> Now with the OP out of her life, the opportunity to let this air out may never happen and the BFF will take it to the grave, and its a total lose-lose situation.
> 
> Being friends with someone for 20+ years is not something you just drop because they broke your moral code. Clearly moral codes are broken all the time throughout a friendship, but its the bond that keeps you together and the help to make each other better that keeps you going.
> 
> Also the BFF knows her husband way better then the OP and knows the end result will be divorce, cause her husband sounds like me, I don't look back, you cheat, your gone.
> 
> OP what would you like the outcome of this situation to be, knowing that your friend's husband will leave her once she tells him? She will be devastated as will her husband, what do you want for your friend?


 I am glad that to you it is so black and white. It is not as simplistic a picture as you are painting. The OP is friends with the BH as well. Should she just be expected to abandon and betray that friendship for the BFF, as she was put into such a horrible situation by the BFF? Effectively if she tells, she betrays the BFF, doesn't tell and betrays the other friend (the BH in this case).

Marriage is a more intense relationship than a BFF, yet the friend chose the BFF to tell and not the BH. Effectively the BFF chose the friendship over the marriage (the lesser of the two involved relationships ,I don't care how strong and many years a BFF exists, it never has the bond of a marriage) to spill the details to. Why would it be so bad if the OP chose the friendship of the BH and OP to divulge such information, this would be the same betrayal as the step down from marriage to BFF, going from BFF to friend.

Nobody knows how they will react in the situation of infidelity until face with it. It is easy to yell from your mountain what you would accept and how you would react, but that isn't always the case when faced with such situations (the majority of the time it is the exact opposite). When finances, kids, family, real estate, businesses, and a host of other things come to light and are facing being destroyed, the situational view and outcome can change.


The questions pondered are not fair, as the OP is not the responsible party for a marriage failure or friendship failure if she tells or doesn't tell. Let's not shoot the messenger already. The friend is the one that made the choices and did the actions and none of these are the fault of the OP in any way shape or form. If it works out, it is because the BFF comes to their senses and realizes how wrong they were and it is time to take responsibility for their actions. Just telling the BFF was not a consequence, only a way to burden someone already saddled with infidelity in their life.


----------



## Squeakr

Dad&Hubby said:


> I applaud your loyalty, but I believe it's misplaced. Where is the friend's ownership of telling the OP? The friend should've considered how telling the OP would impact them and she didn't, so to flip this, is this friend TRULY being a good friend through HER actions...I will always hold the person doing the first action more liable in a situation than the person reacting.
> 
> My best friend has been my best friend since 2nd grade. We're both 41 now. He's always been closer to me than my own brother.
> 
> He'd NEVER put me in the position this friend did to the OP where you either have to compromise your morals and integrity OR you have step back from the friend because you won't compromise yourself. It's not fair, it's not right and it's NOT being a friend.


:iagree: x 1000


----------



## bfree

Samus,

Why is it assumed to be a fait accompli that her husband will leave her once he finds out? Because she said so? Isn't that just her fears being used to rationalize her deceit?


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> So the outcome is that its not my responsibility but solely my best friends to tell.
> 
> But my 20 year friendship has ended so she may as well have cheated on me. Massive loss. ;-(


When you were a BW did you not wish you would of been told?

Now you have the chance to pay it forward and you go cold----hearted.


----------



## Samus

bfree said:


> Samus,
> 
> Why is it assumed to be a fait accompli that her husband will leave her once he finds out? Because she said so? Isn't that just her fears being used to rationalize her deceit?


Because she stated she knows her husband will leave her which means to me at least, that her husband must of specifically made notions towards, if you ever cheat we are finished. 

Perhaps he voiced those things while they watched a movie, or discussed relationship things about other couples, etc...

I know I have said it to my wife before that I don't give 2nd chances for cheating, no matter if there are kids involved, my dignity and pride is more important. Plus I wouldn never get over the fact that someone else had sex with my wife and the graphic images would be hard to erase from my mind.

That is the way I live my life and I am not knocking on people that R.


----------



## Samus

theroad said:


> When you were a BW did you not wish you would of been told?
> 
> Now you have the chance to pay it forward and you go cold----hearted.


It's a catch 22 either way you look at it and there is no right or wrong. 

It is better if friends don't involve themselves in matter's of other couples. It is up to the friend to advise what is the right thing to do and up to the spouse to tell there BS. 

What if she told the husband and bodily harm comes to her from her BFF? What if she shoots her, because her husband divorced her? 

You can never foretell the outcome of things, this is why is it bad to CHEAT on your spouses, BETRAY friendship and help people in the world, because the outcome could be to your detriment.


----------



## Thor

Samus said:


> Because she stated she knows her husband will leave her which means to me at least, that her husband must of specifically made notions towards, if you ever cheat we are finished.


So this husband obviously has a strong belief system about infidelity. He knows deep in his heart he does not want to be married to a cheater.

Is it not then cheating him out of his right to live his life as he has clearly stated, if one chooses to hide the truth from him? Will he not be subject to even deeper anguish when he eventually finds out about the infidelity?


----------



## Jasel

Would be nice if some people here could be a bit more supportive instead of casting their own moral judgement from their respective pedestals. Regardless of what YOU say you would do or want her to do at the end of the day it's her choice. It's disturbing how many people are basically trying to shame her into seeing things from their POV when she didn't do anything wrong:scratchhead:


----------



## Thor

Samus said:


> What if she told the husband and bodily harm comes to her from her BFF? What if she shoots her, because her husband divorced her?


There is an infinite number of possibilities. What if he finds out next year about the infidelity and HE shoots the OP for hiding the information from him?

You're advocating the "It's none of my business" philosophy. The problem is that the wife made it OP's business by telling her about her affair.


----------



## Dyokemm

Samus,

I would never criticize your views on infidelity. In fact, I share them exactly.

The one time I was cheated on I instantly ended the relationship, end of story, and no thought of trying to rebuild or recover.

I found out about that cheating because a mutual friend (though closer to me) told me he saw my SO out with the OM. 

I have always been thankful he did not keep his mouth closed. I would have been very angry if I had found out after we married (we were discussing plans) that he had known and said nothing.

I'm curious, how do you think you would react in OP's or my friend's situation.

I think I would have done the same as her. I could not continue a social interaction feeling like I was part of a conspiracy against the BH.

Because of my personal history, I would feel guilty about not exposing, but it is difficult to contemplate inserting yourself directly in someone else's M. 

But I'm glad my friend did.


----------



## Samus

Thor said:


> There is an infinite number of possibilities. What if he finds out next year about the infidelity and HE shoots the OP for hiding the information from him?
> 
> You're advocating the "It's none of my business" philosophy. The problem is that the wife made it OP's business by telling her about her affair.


Yes and that is what friends are for, a shoulder to lean on in time of need, not a person to go and backstab you at first chance because they morally don't believe in those things!!

I can go back and forth with several of you over this and no one is right or wrong. The bottom line is she did what she thought was right and I salute her for it. I just didn't agree with her not being friends anymore, but that is her decision and I am also fine with it, but its not what I would do.

Who are you to go tell my husband/wife something I told you in confidence? You want to add salt to my already wounded heart, because I messed up big time??

Seriously folks, look at this in an unbiased fashion please.


----------



## Thor

There are different levels of violation. If you bought a season pass to the local sports team and lied to your wife about the price a little bit, I am not going to break off our friendship. But you did cross a boundary by being dishonest with your wife, and I am not going to facilitate your lie. That is, I am not going to lie to her if she asks me. But I am also not going to insert myself into a relatively minor relationship transgression.

But if you cheat on your wife and you tell me, you have put me in a very bad spot. Keeping you as my friend is not the highest moral ground. I think it would be fair to advise you of my opinion and encourage you to do the right thing, rather than me run instantly to your wife and tell her what I know.

Ultimately though I think the moral high ground is to refuse to keep such a damaging secret from the innocent spouse. Keeping the secret does do harm to the BS. The cheater did the damage to himself/herself and to the marriage.


----------



## Samus

Dyokemm said:


> Samus,
> 
> I would never criticize your views on infidelity. In fact, I share them exactly.
> 
> The one time I was cheated on I instantly ended the relationship, end of story, and no thought of trying to rebuild or recover.
> 
> I found out about that cheating because a mutual friend (though closer to me) told me he saw my SO out with the OM.
> 
> I have always been thankful he did not keep his mouth closed. I would have been very angry if I had found out after we married (we were discussing plans) that he had known and said nothing.
> 
> I'm curious, how do you think you would react in OP's or my friend's situation.
> 
> I think I would have done the same as her. I could not continue a social interaction feeling like I was part of a conspiracy against the BH.
> 
> Because of my personal history, I would feel guilty about not exposing, but it is difficult to contemplate inserting yourself directly in someone else's M.
> 
> But I'm glad my friend did.


D,

As I said in one of my post, of course I would like to know. If it was my best friend and he saw something of course he should tell me, because WE are best friends, this is the total opposite. Your mutual friend had more allegiance toward you, this is normal for them to look out for you. 

In this situation the BS is not the BFF. There is a distinct difference between the two and you have to pick your battles in this regard. 

If you think about it, what if the husband does find out and divorces BFF? The WW learns a life lesson and moves on and still is BFF with her friend. In the situation some of you are proposing, your asking the OP to confess this to BS, which betrays her BFF, now divorce ocurrs and she loses mutual friend (BS) and BFF (WW). 

How does this make any sense? Especially when right vs wrong is subjective here. 

The OP did the right thing and told her friend what she thinks is the best angle. If the WW eventually confesses, the OP will eventually become friends again, because no rift was caused other then her BFF making a mistake of a lifetime. Friends can learn to forgive, but BS may not forgive.


----------



## MattMatt

Samus said:


> D,
> 
> As I said in one of my post, of course I would like to know. If it was my best friend and he saw something of course he should tell me, because WE are best friends, this is the total opposite. Your mutual friend had more allegiance toward you, this is normal for them to look out for you.
> 
> In this situation the BS is not the BFF. There is a distinct difference between the two and you have to pick your battles in this regard.
> 
> If you think about it, what if the husband does find out and divorces BFF? The WW learns a life lesson and moves on and still is BFF with her friend. In the situation some of you are proposing, your asking the OP to confess this to BS, which betrays her BFF, now divorce ocurrs and she loses mutual friend (BS) and BFF (WW).
> 
> How does this make any sense? Especially when right vs wrong is subjective here.
> 
> The OP did the right thing and told her friend what she thinks is the best angle. If the WW eventually confesses, the OP will eventually become friends again, because no rift was caused other then her BFF making a mistake of a lifetime. Friends can learn to forgive, but BS may not forgive.


See, she confessed to the wrong person. She should have confessed to her husband, not burdened her friend with this toxic information. 

She has put her friend in a very difficult position. How is she supposed to react to the husband when she subsequently meets him? Pity? Amusement? Scorn? Sympathy? What? :scratchhead:


----------



## Dyokemm

Samus,

Thanks for responding. 

I also told OP she did not have to directly involve herself by informing BH. 

But I'll admit my own background had me torn on that one as I would have never known about the cheating in time in my situation if the friend had not informed me.

I think she is right to distance herself socially though. Both for her own pain (she is a BS after all) and to not present a facade of normality in front of the BH. That would make me, and her I suspect, feel like I am part of the deception.


----------



## Samus

MattMatt said:


> See, she confessed to the wrong person. She should have confessed to her husband, not burdened her friend with this toxic information.
> 
> She has put her friend in a very difficult position. How is she supposed to react to the husband when she subsequently meets him? Pity? Amusement? Scorn? Sympathy? What? :scratchhead:


So I am not allowed to tell my friend something that I have done wrong? 

What is the purpose of a best friend then if you can't lean on them or discuss your most personal matters as a third party?

You see I don't feel bad for the cheater, I do feel bad for the OP. The cheater doesn't want to face the music because she doesn't want to lose what she has (cake eating). 

This information the OP has of her friend is something that is happening in her friends life and she should put aside her personal emotions and assist her friend in making the best of the situation. This is a hard thing to do for most people. People can't put aside there difference and look at something totally unbiased. Again, this is a lose/lose situation no matter which way you look at it Matt.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Samus; said:


> Yes and that is what friends are for, a shoulder to lean on in time of need, not a person to go and backstab you at first chance because they morally don't believe in those things!!
> .


A friend is also that person that will hold a mirror up to you and say "this is ugly, I don't like this about you." Yes, even in times of need. There are times, when you are heading down a dark road, where you need that good friend to hit you with a cold dose of reality.

It's strange that you see the backstabbing, but can't see the FACT she made this awful choice without involving her 20 year friend. If the marriage was that rocky, bad, awful, abusive, or whatever why did you continue the deception when you were receiving the compliments? I'm talking about BEFORE she cheated.


----------



## Samus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> A friend is also that person that will hold a mirror up to you and say "this is ugly, I don't like this about you." Yes, even in times of need. There are times, when you are heading down a dark road, where you need that good friend to hit you with a cold dose of reality. I AGREE
> 
> It's strange that you see the backstabbing, but can't see the FACT she made this awful choice without involving her 20 year friend. If the marriage was that rocky, bad, awful, abusive, or whatever why did you continue the deception when you were receiving the compliments? I'm talking about BEFORE she cheated.


I see the awful choice she made. I despise it. I don't agree with it. I also depise a friend backstabbing someone they known for 20 years and trust them go running to there spouse saying she cheated on you. 

I guarantee you that if OP wasn't her BFF she would of never told her, but she did because she had faith that her BFF would never tell her husband and that she would help her cope with it. 

How would you feel if you told your BFF something in confidence and they went running there mouth off about it, you would feel betrayed, hurt and would never want to talk to that person again.


----------



## Dyokemm

I have never held it against the three guys I would label great (or best) friends when they have torn me a new one because they really thought I was f***ing things up in a life situation.

I take that as an important part of friendship.

Of course, I have never really been guilty of screwing up as bad as OP's friend, but if I was, I would like to think they would get in my face about it pretty bad, and I would not be shocked or upset if they told me they didn't want to hang out as long as I was still pulling that crap.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You and I disagree on your use of backstabbing. She didn't tell the husband, she made her choice face to face with her best friend. That's the opposite of backstabbing in my definition. 


Samus said:


> So I am not allowed to tell my friend something that I have done wrong?
> 
> What is the purpose of a best friend then if you can't lean on them or discuss your most personal matters as a third party?


Truthfully, as a best friends, you should know their moral code. You should know EXACTLY what would end your friendship. I always enjoy altruism, but it rarely fits in the real world.




> This is a hard thing to do for most people. People can't put aside there difference and look at something totally unbiased. Again, this is a lose/lose situation no matter which way you look at it Matt.


I hope you realize you are being biased.



Samus said:


> I guarantee you that if OP wasn't her BFF she would of never told her, but she did because she had faith that her BFF would never tell her husband and that she would help her cope with it.


No, you can't guarantee that at all.


----------



## Samus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You and I disagree on your use of backstabbing. She didn't tell the husband, she made her choice face to face with her best friend. That's the opposite of backstabbing in my definition.
> Truthfully, as a best friends, you should know their moral code. You should know EXACTLY what would end your friendship. I always enjoy altruism, but it rarely fits in the real world.
> 
> 
> I hope you realize you are being biased.
> 
> No, you can't guarantee that at all.


Really did you even read my post? Why are you twisting my words? I said that in an example the OP going to her husband is considered backstabbing, I think you and I know the definition of what backstabbing means, and clearly your playing with me if you think I am using it differently. Please don't insult me like that. Thanks. 

I am not being biased, I am sorry if you perhaps was betrayed in life and can't see it in a different matter that it is not in anyone's right to tell someone else's spouse that they were betrayed other then the spouse or family, or very close friend. Neither of these are the OP to the husband. 

Let's agree to disagree philly because I think your a smart guy and this is turning into a you and me don't agree thread and I don't want it to be like that. 

OP - I agree with how you handled this. I hope you and your best friend make up later on in life and she and her husband work out the deception issue that has ocurred.


----------



## MattMatt

MattMatt said:


> See, she confessed to the wrong person. She should have confessed to her husband, not burdened her friend with this toxic information.
> 
> She has put her friend in a very difficult position. How is she supposed to react to the husband when she subsequently meets him? Pity? Amusement? Scorn? Sympathy? What? :scratchhead:


Samus, you didn't answer my question.

How *is* the OP supposed to react to the cuckolded husband?


----------



## calvin

MattMatt said:


> See, she confessed to the wrong person. She should have confessed to her husband, not burdened her friend with this toxic information.
> 
> She has put her friend in a very difficult position. How is she supposed to react to the husband when she subsequently meets him? Pity? Amusement? Scorn? Sympathy? What? :scratchhead:


I dig that M&M but the husband should know,I know she's in a really tight spot here.
I wouldnt want to be in her shoes.
Still there must be someway of letting him know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Samus

MattMatt said:


> Samus, you didn't answer my question.
> 
> How *is* the OP supposed to react to the cuckolded husband?


She should ignore it or just not join them in couple outings. What else can she? It's not her battle nor her business to tell her BFF's husband. Not her responsibility. Her alliance is with her BFF and that's it.


----------



## MattMatt

A former friend of mine put me in a similar position. I said: "Tell your wife, or I'll have to tell her."

So he did.


----------



## calvin

MattMatt said:


> A former friend of mine put me in a similar position. I said: "Tell your wife, or I'll have to tell her."
> 
> So he did.


Thats what I keep thinking.
I would be hesitant also.
If there is no way he will find out I'd have to tell.
We'd all want to know if something like this was happening.
The sooner the better,I feel R would have more of a chance or he can
Decide for himself.
Longer this lie goes on the longer it will take any tyoe of healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Samus said:


> Yes and that is what friends are for, a shoulder to lean on in time of need, not a person to go and backstab you at first chance because they morally don't believe in those things!!
> 
> I can go back and forth with several of you over this and no one is right or wrong. The bottom line is she did what she thought was right and I salute her for it. I just didn't agree with her not being friends anymore, but that is her decision and I am also fine with it, but its not what I would do.
> 
> Who are you to go tell my husband/wife something I told you in confidence? You want to add salt to my already wounded heart, because I messed up big time??
> 
> Seriously folks, look at this in an unbiased fashion please.


I'm not the OP and if I'm wrong I'm sure she'll correct me. But her problem is less the fact that her friend had a ONS (although she understandably is upset by that) but the fact that she it's continuing to lie to her husband and now had involuntarily inserted the OP into get conspiracy. So is it your contention that the OP should support her friend in lying to her husband?


----------



## Thor

Samus said:


> Her alliance is with her BFF and that's it.


How far does that alliance go?

The BFF is harming her husband's life with this lie. Does the alliance trump the harm to the husband?

What if BFF is carrying a nasty disease (herpes, aids, HPV, hepatitis)? Does the alliance trump the physical danger to the husband's health?

What if BFF commits a small crime? Does the alliance trump minor crime?

What if BFF commits a major crime?

What if BFF and BS adopt a child and then divorce when BS finds out about the affair? Does the alliance trump the interests of the future adoptive child?

I am honestly curious where you see the boundaries of obligation to a friend due to the friendship alone. (We're excluding war situations etc). Where does the consideration of harm to others, either strangers or lesser friends, come into play?


----------



## Samus

Thor said:


> How far does that alliance go?
> 
> The BFF is harming her husband's life with this lie. Does the alliance trump the harm to the husband?
> 
> What if BFF is carrying a nasty disease (herpes, aids, HPV, hepatitis)? Does the alliance trump the physical danger to the husband's health?
> 
> What if BFF commits a small crime? Does the alliance trump minor crime?
> 
> What if BFF commits a major crime?
> 
> What if BFF and BS adopt a child and then divorce when BS finds out about the affair? Does the alliance trump the interests of the future adoptive child?
> 
> I am honestly curious where you see the boundaries of obligation to a friend due to the friendship alone. (We're excluding war situations etc). Where does the consideration of harm to others, either strangers or lesser friends, come into play?


This is specifically regarding a relationship with BFF's husband nothing else. Why would you think I would want her to cover up crime? This is about a relationship, not a crime of murder, grand theft, treason and or any other significant crime. Cheating on your spouse is not a crime. Its a stupid, selfish thing to do, but its not a crime that involves the LAW. 

OP has no obligation to the spouse but to her friend. She did the right thing by telling the friend and if it hurts her morals she also did the right thing by leaving. 

Your asking OP to do something that is not her place to do. Would you go and tell a husband/wife that there spouse has a big surprise for them. Is it fair for you to tell the spouse this information? It is not your place!! Is it fair for you to share the good news or bad news to an SO that you are not involved with intimately? 

The blindness of infidelity in your own relationships have affected your opinion so drastically that you would abandon lifelong friends to a person that is not even your friends. Morally speaking she must of known her friend is human and can make mistakes. People make mistakes and you guys are making it so that the OP takes the burden of exposing it vs the WW. Makes me sick.

I think reconciliation plays a big part of the ways you folks who have been victims of infidelity think and analyze a situation. You continuing in a relationship that have been broken and because your SO changed there tune to be committed when they should of been in the first place, makes all your commenting on this situation very hypocritical. 

There should be no 2nd chances for infidelity!!!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I haven't twisted your words.


> I think you and I know the definition of what backstabbing means, and clearly your playing with me if you think I am using it differently. Please don't insult me like that. Thanks.


You are welcome.

Here is what you said:


> Yes and that is what friends are for, a shoulder to lean on in time of need, not a person to go and backstab you at first chance because they morally don't believe in those things!!


 I took this in context to her ending the friendship. The thing you keep discussing post after post. So, no, I have no clue where you are at any longer as you keep shifting between three points.


Samus said:


> I am not being biased,


An unbiased post would be missing words like "backstabbing," "should" and "guarantee" with an issue that has multiple outcomes. 

None of those words are neutral, in this context, nor are they unbiased. 

You can have the last word because I don't need a ban, we are potentially derailing her thread by not handing out advice and you appear slightly miffed.


----------



## Thor

In my state I think infidelity is a crime. But that is besides the point.

What I understand is that in your philosophy a friend owes loyalty to a friend simply due to the friendship. And a person owes zero to others in the way of warning them of potential danger or harm which they are not aware of.

I think I hear you say that morality is relative, depending on whose side you're on. And absent a law there is no moral imperative.

You are certainly not alone even here on this thread, not to mention in the wider world, with your philosophy.


----------



## Samus

Not miffed philly sorry if I came across that way. Your opinion is as good as mine. 

Thor you are also entitled to your opinion and I will leave it at that. And you are also not alone Thor in your philosophy and how you see things. 

I believe everyone has there free will to make there decisions based on what they feel is right. If they seek advice which OP has, she can filter through and use it to how she feel is the best way. 

All of our opinions are neither right or wrong. I agree when I feel strongly that its right to me and I disagree when I feel its wrong.


----------



## larry.gray

Samus said:


> She should ignore it or just not join them in couple outings. What else can she? It's not her battle nor her business to tell her BFF's husband. Not her responsibility. Her alliance is with her BFF and that's it.


Hence why she told the WW that she couldn't socialize with them as two couples going out together. I certainly couldn't ignore it. I'd feel so bad for the guy I couldn't stand being around them and putting on a lying, happy face. I just can't be that fake. Obviously the WW can do it, but I couldn't.


----------



## larry.gray

Samus said:


> Not her responsibility. Her alliance is with her BFF and that's it.


No, the OP stated that they go out as couples together. Her husband is friends with the BH. It started out as two BFFs, but once they get their husbands involved, they all have relationships with each other. As I posted before, if the two husbands are getting close to each other, then even omitting this info to her own husband can be problematic if it blows up later.


----------



## larry.gray

One more reason, I personally, would have to break it off is that I couldn't stop asking "How can you continue to lie? When you're lying there, looking at him sleeping, how do you not break down from the guilt?"

It would just keep needling at me.


----------



## hibiscus

larry.gray said:


> No, the OP stated that they go out as couples together. Her husband is friends with the BH. It started out as two BFFs, but once they get their husbands involved, they all have relationships with each other. As I posted before, if the two husbands are getting close to each other, then even omitting this info to her own husband can be problematic if it blows up later.


He is my STBH. I have told him about my best friend's ONS. He says its not my responsibility. But he doesn't understand how my BF can hide what she did for so long


----------



## hibiscus

larry.gray said:


> One more reason, I personally, would have to break it off is that I couldn't stop asking "How can you continue to lie? When you're lying there, looking at him sleeping, how do you not break down from the guilt?"
> 
> It would just keep needling at me.


I think some people are better at dealing with guilt than others. Some people are just great actors


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> I think some people are better at dealing with guilt than others. Some people are just great actors


It all comes down to a person's level of empathy. It is a spectrum, from narcissists who have none, to those that have a lot.

I'm fairly high myself, and I just couldn't do it. I would have a nervous breakdown trying to hide something like this.


----------



## MattMatt

Maybe she has no guilt? And confessed in order to boast?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

MattMatt said:


> Maybe she has no guilt? And confessed in order to boast?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That doesn't align with this:



hibiscus said:


> She knows that it was a one off and will never cheat again she says. She feels disgusted with herself for losing control... living with this secret has been like a cancer she says. But she would rather live with this lie than her marriage ending.


----------



## hibiscus

Samus said:


> I think she felt guilty and has been debating over this for a while and eventually decided to tell her BFF. Honestly when someone cheats, its the worst offense in a marriage and to share it with anyone outside of yourself is not an easy thing to do. Also this friend knows OP went through this situation and was probably afraid and nervous about confiding with her, because she feared that the OP would tell her husband.
> 
> There could be many reasons, but the BFF eventually confided in the OP to possibly give her direction and advice on how to either move on, or confront. Abandoning the friend does not offer the benefit of getting or to tell her husband. I think if OP continues being friends and continues pushing and dicussing how morally wrong it is, eventually the BFF will crack as the OP stated, she is a good person.
> 
> Now with the OP out of her life, the opportunity to let this air out may never happen and the BFF will take it to the grave, and its a total lose-lose situation.
> 
> Being friends with someone for 20+ years is not something you just drop because they broke your moral code. Clearly moral codes are broken all the time throughout a friendship, but its the bond that keeps you together and the help to make each other better that keeps you going.
> 
> Also the BFF knows her husband way better then the OP and knows the end result will be divorce, cause her husband sounds like me, I don't look back, you cheat, your gone.
> 
> OP what would you like the outcome of this situation to be, knowing that your friend's husband will leave her once she tells him? She will be devastated as will her husband, what do you want for your friend?


Samus I do see where you are coming from but at the moment I feel very angry with her. Yes she is my best friend but I am beginning to question her sincerity at this stage. She hasn't been honest with me either.

Rewinding to a year ago I remember when I told her about my partners ONS. She called him all kinds of names under the sun. She told me to dump him, no second chance. Even got angry with me when I told her I was thinking of R...and all that time she was hiding the fact that SHE had a ONS too! I hate hypocrisy! 

Friendships grow together or start separating. Maybe its time that we both parted in different ways.


----------



## hibiscus

I am not sure what I want for my friend. I just feel very annoyed and confused but think its best not to be in her company.


----------



## Samus

hibiscus said:


> Samus I do see where you are coming from but at the moment I feel very angry with her. Yes she is my best friend but I am beginning to question her sincerity at this stage. She hasn't been honest with me either.
> 
> Rewinding to a year ago I remember when I told her about my partners ONS. She called him all kinds of names under the sun. She told me to dump him, no second chance. Even got angry with me when I told her I was thinking of R...and all that time she was hiding the fact that SHE had a ONS too! I hate hypocrisy!
> 
> Friendships grow together or start separating. Maybe its time that we both parted in different ways.


Did you mention this to her when you were telling her how you feel about the situation? Tell her that all the hypocrisy you were showing and why now all of a sudden you are confiding with me?

I also hate hypocrisy and I wouldn't blame you for parting with your friend. 

Also do what someone else mentioned here (MATT) tell her if she doesn't say anything you will say, but its only a bluff obviously, because I don't think it is your place to say anything to the husband. You just never know what the negative impact will be to you.


----------



## LostViking

Samus we get your point. Quit hammering it. You stated your opinion now let the OP digest what she has heard from everyone and make her own decision. This is her thread not yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad

OP ouch she actually looked you in the face a d berated your h and your decision to R while keeping silent About herself. 

What a good friend. Do as I say not as I do. 

Hopefully she tells her h before the adoption is complete.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Samus I do see where you are coming from but at the moment I feel very angry with her. Yes she is my best friend but I am beginning to question her sincerity at this stage. She hasn't been honest with me either.
> 
> Rewinding to a year ago I remember when I told her about my partners ONS. She called him all kinds of names under the sun. She told me to dump him, no second chance. Even got angry with me when I told her I was thinking of R...and all that time she was hiding the fact that SHE had a ONS too! I hate hypocrisy!
> 
> Friendships grow together or start separating. Maybe its time that we both parted in different ways.


 Sorry to hear that she did this to you. It is an awful way to treat someone that is supposed to be the best of friends with you (but I am not surprised as she treated her H worse, he just isn't aware of it yet). I am glad that you made the decision that you did, and didn't listen to the almighty BFF code that Samus has been pushing as it obviously means nothing to her. She is only about herself obviously and what she wants and needs and not about supporting anyone else. OP, you should have mentioned the little extra about what the BFF did to you in your time of need and then maybe the advice you received would have changed some? Not blaming you, but this is the exact reason the trickle truthing is despised (as it can change the situation).

I also have to agree with Thor that what the BFF did is a major crime in my state as well, so does that change obligations gto tell?


----------



## Ovid

He should know before taking on a child with her. What you do about it is up to you.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Sorry to hear that she did this to you. It is an awful way to treat someone that is supposed to be the best of friends with you (but I am not surprised as she treated her H worse, he just isn't aware of it yet). I am glad that you made the decision that you did, and didn't listen to the almighty BFF code that Samus has been pushing as it obviously means nothing to her. She is only about herself obviously and what she wants and needs and not about supporting anyone else. OP, you should have mentioned the little extra about what the BFF did to you in your time of need and then maybe the advice you received would have changed some? Not blaming you, but this is the exact reason the trickle truthing is despised (as it can change the situation).
> 
> I also have to agree with Thor that what the BFF did is a major crime in my state as well, so does that change obligations gto tell?


To be honest I forgot about how she reacted around that time as I was so centred on my own hurt at that time. My life then was one big blur! I don't even know how I functioned in my daily life. All I remember was pain pain pain.
I just remembered suddenly as I am trying to put all the pieces together of when and how she had her ONS. But I don't really really know whether this has any relevance to exposing her to her H. This is just another indication that she is very good at pretending.

Geez. Who do you trust these days...


----------



## hibiscus

Samus said:


> Did you mention this to her when you were telling her how you feel about the situation? Tell her that all the hypocrisy you were showing and why now all of a sudden you are confiding with me?
> 
> I also hate hypocrisy and I wouldn't blame you for parting with your friend.
> 
> Also do what someone else mentioned here (MATT) tell her if she doesn't say anything you will say, but its only a bluff obviously, because I don't think it is your place to say anything to the husband. You just never know what the negative impact will be to you.


I only just remember how she reacted yesterday. I have stopped talking to her for now but if she contacts me then I will most certainly mention it. But I know what she will say...

She acted that way because she didn't want anyone to know about her ONS. Like I said, she is very ashamed of her ONS. Telling her husband is going to have devastating effects on the two of them... they have built up so much together...mentally financially.

I find this very diificult as I don't wish more harm to my best friend but at the same time she did a terrible thing to her H. I feel really sorry for him....


----------



## Julien

Samus said:


> Also do what someone else mentioned here (MATT) tell her if she doesn't say anything you will say, but its only a bluff obviously, because I don't think it is your place to say anything to the husband. You just never know what the negative impact will be to you.


I don't believe this is good advice.

First of all, if you threaten her, it will give her time to get her story straight and lie to her husband who will believe her because he doesn't know better.

Second of all: why would you make an empty threat? Why would you bluff? I don't understand it.
When you say something like that, go through with it.

The only good thing that would come out of it is let you know once and for all if it is a good thing to part ways with your "friend" forever if she doesn't tell her husband.

I would say get a VAR, get her to confess and give it to her husband. Just be like "Hey, have you confessed to your husband that you cheated on him?", "Why? He deserves to know", etc.

You should read Wranglerman last thread, it is full of good advice.


----------



## warlock07

There was a poster here sometime back. His wife was a serial cheater but went through adoption anyway(during her affairs). She took very little care of the kids too


----------



## carmen ohio

hibiscus said:


> I only just remember how she reacted yesterday. I have stopped talking to her for now but if she contacts me then I will most certainly mention it. But I know what she will say...
> 
> She acted that way because she didn't want anyone to know about her ONS. Like I said, she is very ashamed of her ONS. Telling her husband is going to have devastating effects on the two of them... they have built up so much together...mentally financially.
> 
> I find this very diificult as I don't wish more harm to my best friend but at the same time she did a terrible thing to her H. I feel really sorry for him....


hibiscus,

I feel even more sorry for the child who is going to be brought into this unstable family.

I still believe the BH needs to know about his WW's ONS before that happens.


----------



## MattMatt

larry.gray said:


> That doesn't align with this:


But the whole confession (tears and all) might have been a game to her. Playing the part of the remorseful wife?


----------



## MattMatt

Samus said:


> Did you mention this to her when you were telling her how you feel about the situation? Tell her that all the hypocrisy you were showing and why now all of a sudden you are confiding with me?
> 
> I also hate hypocrisy and I wouldn't blame you for parting with your friend.
> 
> Also do what someone else mentioned here (MATT) tell her if she doesn't say anything you will say, but its only a bluff obviously, because I don't think it is your place to say anything to the husband. You just never know what the negative impact will be to you.


*
I wasn't bluffing. And he knew it.*


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> He is my STBH. I have told him about my best friend's ONS. He says its not my responsibility. But he doesn't understand how my BF can hide what she did for so long


Of course your WH wants to protect a fellow WS.


----------



## barbados

hibiscus said:


> Telling her husband is going to have devastating effects on the two of them... *they have built up so much together...mentally financially.*


Apparently it still wasn't enough for her. Its a shame. Its such a common theme in the CWI. Its just never enough for some people, male or female.


----------



## hibiscus

barbados said:


> Apparently it still wasn't enough for her. Its a shame. Its such a common theme in the CWI. Its just never enough for some people, male or female.


Cause they like the thrill of the chase. That hot burning sexual desire that you only get if you are with a new person.

Cheaters are not good at controlling this desire.


----------



## hibiscus

Just to update;

My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che

She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A. 

I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


----------



## workindad

forward her text message to her husband. Then you have helped her to be honest with him. He has a right to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

hibiscus said:


> Just to update;
> 
> My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che
> 
> She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A.
> 
> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


Tell her you are being a friend by what you are doing.

There was lead up to the ONS so it is an A. She should get IC and MC to find out why she did it.

She is fully capable of doing it again. The introduction of a child always brings more stress into a relationship. If she cheated when things were good, it is a safe bet, if not dealt with then it will happen again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> Just to update;
> 
> My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che
> 
> She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A.
> 
> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


Actually she's saying something else here - that she is willing to sacrifice your friendship instead of ever being honest with her husband, because she doesn't want to face consequences for her very real and deliberate choice to have sex with another man, just a year ago.

She keeps downplaying it as not important because it was Once and she isn't planning on doing it again.

Think about what she is saying here - It's ok to let it go because she only chose to willingly have sex with a cute hot guy once. 

A very nice rationalization and minimization on her part. And it's a great one, because it will work for her over and over and over, one guy at a time.

What if she had only stolen money from work just the once?

Or if she had beat that child only once.

See - it being just once doesn't make it a thing you can hide and just be forgiven for.

The fact is that just a year ago, she willing and eagerly chose to have sex with another man, and when it was done she went home all in smiles, looked her husband in the eye, and even likely gave him a big kiss on the lips.

And that's something her husband should know. That she chose to betray him, and she was fully capable of not showing any guilt or regret for doing it.

And she eagerly chose to let the OM flirt with and chase her even before she took off her pants for him. I've heard it said that a woman knows if she's gonna sleep with the guy that night, even before they sit down and start drinking. She knew that night before she drank, she just did the drinking part of loosen up herself so she could better enjoy it without those unpleasant doubts about it being wrong.

I'd very much be sending the text she sent onto her husband and telling him the whole thing. He has a right to know the truth about what his wife is willing to do.


----------



## Jasel

hibiscus said:


> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


I don't even think it's worth responding to personally.


----------



## Shaggy

Every day she doesn't tell him the truth, she is still choosing to betray him.

She is choosing herself over him knowing what he has a right to know.


----------



## workindad

Shaggys posts above are spot on. 

Perhaps she is looking for help in telling her husband and that is why she told you. She knows your struggles as a betrayed partner. She looked you in the eye then and deceived you. Perhaps she really wants you to tell her husband. Forward the text to him. 

She must realize that telling you and putting in a text to you after the discussion you had that she wAs leaving a trail for her husband to find. She must have expected that you would tell your h. Who may he mention it to? 

Send him the message. Do not let him live a lie with a cancer eating their marriage that he can never hope to address while bringing a child into the mix. You know what the right thing to do is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Shaggy said:


> Every day she doesn't tell him the truth, she is still choosing to betray him.
> 
> She is choosing herself over him knowing what he has a right to know.


And she is choosing herself over your friendship as well.

Shaggy is correct. All the things she might have done for you don't take away the terrible thing she did. The only way for her to remove that stain is to atone for her transgression. That starts by telling her husband.


----------



## lisab0105

hibiscus, your BFF does not want you to tell. No matter with ending your friendship, she can't fathom that you will tell her husband. It isn't something where she wants to get caught. She has no idea that you have a forum full of people egging you on to spill the beans. Do what you can live with. He has a right to know, but only be the one that tells if you are prepared for what will happen. 

As far as her text, tell her you are a first hand witness to what cheating does to a person and you are disappointed in her choices and won't associate with her until she makes it right, and truly learns from her wrong doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

So lets think of this scenario...what if I do tell her H about her ONS. What if he reacts really badly from it?? What if he goes into a rage and harms her? What if he stalks the OM and does something crazy? I don't want to be the instigator of that


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> So lets think of this scenario...what if I do tell her H about her ONS. What if he reacts really badly from it?? What if he goes into a rage and harms her? What if he stalks the OM and does something crazy? I don't want to be the instigator of that


These are valid concerns. Ditch the friend and move away from this situation...


----------



## Chaparral

Would you w ant to know?


----------



## Chaparral

You could always follow theGolden Rule


----------



## workindad

You are not the instigator 

Imagine your same concerns if/when he finds out and a child is involved as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

workindad said:


> You are not the instigator
> 
> Imagine your same concerns if/when he finds out and a child is involved as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I would be if I told her H and she doesn't. Two different mental issues to deal with. If I told him then I would feel responsible for his actions. Is she did then I wouldn't feel responsible.


----------



## workindad

Silence is concurrence. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Chaparral said:


> You could always follow theGolden Rule


Whats that?


----------



## Jasel

Jasel said:


> I don't think you should say anything. Especially since it would just be your word against hers and if she's that deadset against telling him anyway chances are she would act her ass off to set his mind at ease and make you out to be the crazy friend who doesn't know what she's talking about.
> 
> I do think you should question if that's the type of individual you want to be friends with though. Someone who not only would do that but would put you in an uncomfortable position like that.


Just reiterating this because I think it still applies. And he'd probably be more inclined to believe what she tells him anyway.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> Just to update;
> 
> My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che
> 
> She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A.
> 
> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


Ask her to think a bit more why you had to come to a decision to distance a person who you so much until this point. The only reason her husband hasn't distanced himself is because he does not know the truth. 

maybe she thinks that you are trying to control her life. or maybe she just doesn't realize the devastation of infidelity.

Being a friend i more than saying "You go girl.."


----------



## warlock07

Jasel said:


> Just reiterating this because I think it still applies. And he'd probably be more inclined to believe what she tells him anyway.


She now has the text though..Not that she should go about exposing it.


----------



## Married but Happy

I think I'd stay out of it, unless saying nothing would likely endanger someone. Telling could easily endanger someone - abuse and murder occur over less than this daily.

Besides, it could be the revelation is due to the cheater giving up and reforming, in which case no good end is served by outing them. Even when cheaters *reform* and then confess, it's self-serving (they feel better) and hurts their SO (they now have the burden). If you truly have learned and mend your ways, it's best left alone IMO unless there are other repercussions that can't be ignored.


----------



## carmen ohio

Married but Happy said:


> I think I'd stay out of it, unless saying nothing would likely endanger someone. Telling could easily endanger someone - abuse and murder occur over less than this daily.
> 
> Besides, it could be the revelation is due to the cheater giving up and reforming, in which case no good end is served by outing them. Even when cheaters *reform* and then confess, it's self-serving (they feel better) and hurts their SO (they now have the burden). If you truly have learned and mend your ways, it's best left alone IMO unless there are other repercussions that can't be ignored.


MbH,

There is another person involved -- the child they plan to adopt. If they go ahead with the adoption and the BH later learns of the WW's ONS, the marriage will be affected and so will the life of the adopted child. If the couple divorces over this, the adopted child could be scarred for life.

This is why I think this is a tough call and lean toward the view that hibiscus has a moral obligation to ensure, somehow, that the BH knows beforehand so that he can decide if he wants to adopt a child with the WW.

Otherwise, I would be inclined to the view that she has no moral obligation but should break off with her BF in order to protect her own relationship (it's bad for couples if one of them hangs out with a cheater).

BTW, I think the risk that the BH will hurt himself or his WW is greatly exaggerated. In the hundreds of posts on TAM/CWI that I've read, I don't recall hearing of this (although there was the recent thread in which the WW took her life).


----------



## Married but Happy

Good points, carmen. I didn't read closely enough to factor in the adoption.

However, while the risk of violence may be small, my usual guiding principle is first, do no harm, and avoid potential harm, unless the outcome warrants the risk. At this point, isn't the adoption a hypothetical? And isn't a ONS something that may never be repeated, and have no future impact on the relationship if not revealed? Non-intervention still seems the most appropriate path here.


----------



## carmen ohio

Married but Happy said:


> Good points, carmen. I didn't read closely enough to factor in the adoption.
> 
> However, while the risk of violence may be small, my usual guiding principle is first, do no harm, and avoid potential harm, unless the outcome warrants the risk. At this point, isn't the adoption a hypothetical? And isn't a ONS something that may never be repeated, and have no future impact on the relationship if not revealed? Non-intervention still seems the most appropriate path here.


MbH,

In her original post, hibiscus said that the couple "are in the process of adopting and are both very excited." So, no, the adoption is not hypothetical.

As to your other point, virtually everything that people advise others to do on TAM/CWI (file for divorce, post a cheater on cheatersville.com, throw the WS out, expose to family and friends, etc.) could theoretically lead to violence. You are correct, therefore, to state that this risk must be balanced against the desirable outcome. In this case, I think the slight risk of harm is more than outweighed by the need to protect an innocent child's future.

You, of course, are free to disagree with me.


----------



## Jasel

warlock07 said:


> She now has the text though..Not that she should go about exposing it.


Ahh never thought about that. Makes you wonder how cheaters got caught back in the old days before cell phones, GPS, VARs, and electronic communication. I mean what the hell did they do, **** in the driveway in front of all the neighbors???


----------



## alte Dame

I think she confessed to you with the complete expectation that you would offer her a shoulder to cry on and keep her secret. Since you've told her that you disapprove and can't be friends with her unless she does the right thing, she probably sees you now as a loose cannon. This is good, in my opinion, because she needs to be less complacent about what she did, as well as the likelihood that she will do it again. Your stance could serve as something of a deterrent, in my opinion.

In general, though, I agree with Shaggy that this is a general issue that has valid correlates with other moral quandaries. What if you saw your bff of 20 years beating her children? Would you 'keep the secret'?

You asked what the golden rule meant & I'm not sure if anyone clarified. It is the one thing that I emphasized from start to finish when I was raising my children, so I very much believe it: Treat others the way you want to be treated.


----------



## Refuse to be played

I feel sorry for the kid thats about to strapped to this potential powder keg of a marriage.


----------



## calvin

Shaggy said:


> Actually she's saying something else here - that she is willing to sacrifice your friendship instead of ever being honest with her husband, because she doesn't want to face consequences for her very real and deliberate choice to have sex with another man, just a year ago.
> 
> She keeps downplaying it as not important because it was Once and she isn't planning on doing it again.
> 
> Think about what she is saying here - It's ok to let it go because she only chose to willingly have sex with a cute hot guy once.
> 
> A very nice rationalization and minimization on her part. And it's a great one, because it will work for her over and over and over, one guy at a time.
> 
> What if she had only stolen money from work just the once?
> 
> Or if she had beat that child only once.
> 
> See - it being just once doesn't make it a thing you can hide and just be forgiven for.
> 
> The fact is that just a year ago, she willing and eagerly chose to have sex with another man, and when it was done she went home all in smiles, looked her husband in the eye, and even likely gave him a big kiss on the lips.
> 
> And that's something her husband should know. That she chose to betray him, and she was fully capable of not showing any guilt or regret for doing it.
> 
> And she eagerly chose to let the OM flirt with and chase her even before she took off her pants for him. I've heard it said that a woman knows if she's gonna sleep with the guy that night, even before they sit down and start drinking. She knew that night before she drank, she just did the drinking part of loosen up herself so she could better enjoy it without those unpleasant doubts about it being wrong.
> 
> I'd very much be sending the text she sent onto her husband and telling him the whole thing. He has a right to know the truth about what his wife is willing to do.


Man I so much agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fisherman

You know I'm sorry but not telling her husband what's happening to him is just like those people that stand and watch people get mugged in the street but are too afraid to help. It's a sad world we live in.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> Just to update;
> 
> My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che
> 
> She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A.
> 
> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


Maybe continue the discussion with her. Are only full blown affairs break up worthy ? She already made the choice for the H here.


----------



## workindad

OP, the way you have decided to resolve this... at least you won't have to worry about her telling you when she does it again, and again, and again. 

Also, now they can raise a child in a home that is based on lies and deceit.


----------



## Married but Happy

carmen ohio said:


> MbH,
> 
> In her original post, hibiscus said that the couple "are in the process of adopting and are both very excited." So, no, the adoption is not hypothetical.
> 
> As to your other point, virtually everything that people advise others to do on TAM/CWI (file for divorce, post a cheater on cheatersville.com, throw the WS out, expose to family and friends, etc.) could theoretically lead to violence. You are correct, therefore, to state that this risk must be balanced against the desirable outcome. In this case, I think the slight risk of harm is more than outweighed by the need to protect an innocent child's future.
> 
> You, of course, are free to disagree with me.


Apparently, this was a once-only, learned her lesson, ONS. 

Yes, I'll disagree with you. 

In this case as it now stands, intervention may well deny that innocent child a loving home and future. That child may not get adopted if this falls through because of a "busybody gossipmonger" (yes, I used unflattering terms because I think that's what it comes down to in this case, and the _rationalization _that it protects a child is bogus). Revealing the ONS will harm everyone.


----------



## chillymorn

Married but Happy said:


> Apparently, this was a once-only, learned her lesson, ONS.
> 
> Yes, I'll disagree with you.
> 
> In this case as it now stands, intervention may well deny that innocent child a loving home and future. That child may not get adopted if this falls through because of a "busybody gossipmonger" (yes, I used unflattering terms because I think that's what it comes down to in this case, and the _rationalization _that it protects a child is bogus). Revealing the ONS will harm everyone.


It won't harm the husband who is about to take a lifetime of responsibility under false grounds of a loving wife.


now if he still goes through with it its on him for being a nice guy!


----------



## life101

Married but Happy said:


> Apparently, this was a once-only, learned her lesson, ONS.
> 
> Yes, I'll disagree with you.
> 
> In this case as it now stands, intervention may well deny that innocent child a loving home and future. That child may not get adopted if this falls through because of a "busybody gossipmonger" (yes, I used unflattering terms because I think that's what it comes down to in this case, and the _rationalization _that it protects a child is bogus). Revealing the ONS will harm everyone.


Can I kill someone one time only? I promise I will learn my lesson.

And many couples eagerly wait for their chances at adoption. There are many decent people who will give this kid a happy home, people who didn't have to cross boundaries to 'learn' their lessons.

Anyways, all this arguing is pointless at this point. OP doesn't believe in 'do unto others as you would have them do to you'.


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> Just to update;
> 
> My best friend sent me a text message this morning saying how disappointed she is with me that I have ended our friendship. She reminded me of the times when she fully supported me when I hot rock bottom. She was there when one of my relatives died, she was there when I went through my first marriage breakup ( who also che
> 
> She also emphasised that this ONS is a one off and she has no intention of cheating again. She also said that she has nom intention of breaking up her marriage as she doesn't consider this to be a full blown A.
> 
> I havnt replied because I really don't know what to say


I let a dear friend go. The friend whose husband I told to tell her he was having an affair, the same friend who convinced me to confess my revenge affair to my wife.

Why? Because she had an affair with the husband of the woman she met and who befriended her in the maternity hospital, just after she left the hospital with her child. How's that for a low down, dirty affair?


----------



## bfree

Chaparral said:


> You could always follow theGolden Rule


He who has the gold makes the rule?


----------



## Shaggy

Ok since we are talking what ifs and how you would feel.

What if you do nothing,they adopt the kid, she cheats again, and the kid is now living in a broken home.


----------



## MattMatt

Shaggy said:


> Ok since we are talking what ifs and how you would feel.
> 
> What if you do nothing,they adopt the kid, she cheats again, and the kid is now living in a broken home.


Or if he finds out from someone else?


----------



## Thor

Married but Happy said:


> Apparently, this was a once-only, learned her lesson, ONS.
> 
> Yes, I'll disagree with you.
> 
> In this case as it now stands, intervention may well deny that innocent child a loving home and future. That child may not get adopted if this falls through because of a "busybody gossipmonger" (yes, I used unflattering terms because I think that's what it comes down to in this case, and the _rationalization _that it protects a child is bogus). Revealing the ONS will harm everyone.


Or....

The husband finds out and gets some closure and certainty about the nagging feeling he's had for the last year. He knew something was wrong but couldn't quite figure it out. Now he gets the truth and is able to move forward in his life and make fully informed decisions for himself (rather than others making the decision for him via deceiving him).

Or.....

The husband remains in the dark, they adopt, and then a few years down the road the BS finds out about the affair. He decides to D. Now there is a child and a broken family.

We can come up with any number of possible negative outcomes. BS finds out 5 years from now about the affair and finds out the OP knew about it and kept quiet. He goes postal, tracks down OP and murders her. (no I don't think this is likely)

The right thing to do is always the right thing to do. Which means consider the harm being done already, the lies being kept, and the likely harm to an innocent child about to be adopted.


----------



## hibiscus

She has confessed!!!!!!!!! I just spoke with her on the phone! He has gone beserk!! He has smashed furniture and thrown a cup of hot coffee on her!!!! He has walked out but she doesn't know where he has gone!
Dear God.

I am going to drive over to hers after work. She needs me. I am petrified!!!!


----------



## hibiscus

OMG!!!!


----------



## hibiscus

How shall I calm the situation?? I don't know if the H will return today. She is a mess!

What shall I do if he returns???????


----------



## bfree

My suggestion is to take her somewhere else until he calms down. You know the anguish of betrayal first hand. His reaction is not uncommon especially since she's kept this hidden from him. Once he has had time to process things maybe they can begin to discuss a proper course of action.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



bfree said:


> My suggestion is to take her somewhere else until he calms down. You know the anguish of betrayal first hand. His reaction is not uncommon especially since she's kept this hidden from him. Once he has had time to process things maybe they can begin to discuss a proper course of action.


Oh and leave a note so he doesn't think she's gone off to be with her lover. That is what he will assume.


----------



## Married but Happy

She told him on her own? Then the consequences are on her. I hope you didn't push her into it, though, or threaten to tell if she did not, for your own peace of mind given how this is now likely to play out.


----------



## hibiscus

Married but Happy said:


> She told him on her own? Then the consequences are on her. I hope you didn't push her into it, though, or threaten to tell if she did not, for your own peace of mind given how this is now likely to play out.


She told him on her own. I told her that I couldn't be in their company because I couldn't look her H in the face and pretend that everything is cool.

Maybe this pushed her into telling. No idea. Maybe he suspected something. I don't know. I will find out later


----------



## LostViking

Married but Happy said:


> She told him on her own? Then the consequences are on her. I hope you didn't push her into it, though, or threaten to tell if she did not, for your own peace of mind given how this is now likely to play out.


Try reading the thread.


----------



## that_girl

Do nothing. It's not your battle or situation.

Just be there as a friend but....nothing you can really do.


----------



## TRy

hibiscus said:


> She told him on her own. I told her that I couldn't be in their company because I couldn't look her H in the face and pretend that everything is cool.


 Now you need to really be there for her. Her husband had to walk out. He had to react strongly. He had to scream and shout at her. He needed to do this for his own dignity and self respect. There needs to be consequences for her cheating, but if it was truly a one off one night stand, the odds are that he will forgive her if she shows true remorse and shows a willingness to do the heavy lifting.

Tell her say that she is sorry again and again. He cannot hear it enough. Tell her to be extra nice to him even as he ignores her. Tell her to expect that he will be very sad and hurt for a long time and that she needs to hang in there and let him heal at his own pace. Tell her to never tell him that she will leave if he wants her to; this would in effect be calling his bluff if he really intended to work at reconciliation but wanted and needed to put on a show of anger for his own self respect. Good luck.


----------



## bfree

TRy said:


> Now you need to really be there for her. Her husband had to walk out. He had to react strongly. He had to scream and shout at her. He needed to do this for his own dignity and self respect. There needs to be consequences for her cheating, but if it was truly a one off one night stand, the odds are that he will forgive her if she shows true remorse and shows a willingness to do the heavy lifting.
> 
> Tell her say that she is sorry again and again. He cannot hear it enough. Tell her to be extra nice to him even as he ignores her. Tell her to expect that he will be very sad and hurt for a long time and that she needs to hang in there and let him heal at his own pace. *Tell her to never tell him that she will leave if he wants her to; this would in effect be calling his bluff* if he really intended to work at reconciliation but wanted and needed to put on a show of anger for his own self respect. Good luck.


Remember this! Its all too true but people make this mistake over and over.


----------



## Thor

Give her a copy of the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring.

This is a process for the two of them, not an instantaneous result. Thus they are both going to go through a variety of emotions and unpleasant moments. It is not your job to smooth things out, because it would be counterproductive to avoid the necessary unpleasant moments.

Ultimately this will be the best for both of them, now that he knows. One way or another, they will get to the correct outcome which fits their own values and needs.


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> She has confessed!!!!!!!!! I just spoke with her on the phone! He has gone beserk!! He has smashed furniture and thrown a cup of hot coffee on her!!!! He has walked out but she doesn't know where he has gone!
> Dear God.
> 
> I am going to drive over to hers after work. She needs me. I am petrified!!!!


Oh, dear. And if she'd have confessed at the time, this might not have happened. 

Be careful for yourself.


----------



## barbados

I respect you for being there for your friend, but please be careful of your own safety first. You DID NOT create this mess, SHE DID !


----------



## MattMatt

Having said that, immediate confession did not work for Tears? Unless if Tears had delayed confession for a year, would this be how that would have played out?


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## workindad

It is to soon to say how this will work out. Right now he is dealing with a tsunami of emotions. The betrayal, a year's worth of lies, etc.

I would suggest helping her. There are valuable resources on this site that she can learn from. Send her here.

Make sure she does not make the common mistakes of blame shifting, minimizing, trickle truthing, etc.She has some reading to do.

You are not to blame for this mess.


----------



## talk123

jay_gatsby said:


> I think the header on this post says " She needs you to listen and provide a safe harbor for her to go to. You will probably help her more if you keep her trust then go running to her husband. If anyone should tell her husband, it has to be her, not you.


And what if she won't listen. Says this OM was my soul mate. Gives every excuse including staying together not to destroy the kids lives. Then continues to talk about how the two of them spent their weekend together......In my situation, I revealed my Sis-In-Law, my H says i've scarred him...disrespected his family. Yet my SIL was seeing a married man with three small children. The OM didn't want to divorce for the children's sake. Convinced my SIL his marriage was only of convenience. There was no talking to my SIL.


----------



## Shaggy

MattMatt said:


> Having said that, immediate confession did not work for Tears? Unless if Tears had delayed confession for a year, would this be how that would have played out?


Tears marriage ended because her husband simply wouldn't accept being with a wife who so callously chose to betray him like she did. R is not a reasonable expectation, is it a very rare gift.


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## Shaggy

I'd be seeking the H out and offering him your support. He is the one suffering her. He's just found out his wife chose to cheat on him, and lie to him for a year.

Right now he's discovered he's been living in a completely lie of a marriage.


----------



## Dyokemm

Yep...Tears did almost everything right that a WS should to give themselves a shot at R.

But her BH simply had no tolerance or forgiveness for betrayal by the person he loved and trusted.

There are many WS on the threads in here that got the chance to save their M's that certainly were far less deserving of that opportunity than she was.

But that's why everyone here says it is entirely up to the BS what happens and the WS has no say in the matter. 

They gave up their say in things up when they foolishly stepped out of their M's.

In Tear's case, it was especially tragic because she lost it all for a truly meaningless fling, basically a ONS.


----------



## Shaggy

Dyokemm said:


> Yep...Tears did almost everything right that a WS should to give themselves a shot at R.
> 
> But her BH simply had no tolerance or forgiveness for betrayal by the person he loved and trusted.
> 
> There are many WS on the threads in here that got the chance to save their M's that certainly were far less deserving of that opportunity than she was.
> 
> But that's why everyone here says it is entirely up to the BS what happens and the WS has no say in the matter.
> 
> They gave up their say in things up when they foolishly stepped out of their M's.
> 
> In Tear's case, it was especially tragic because she lost it all for a truly meaningless fling, basically a ONS.


And I think that was a big part of why tears H dumped her , what she did was so extremely callous and foolish, that he realized he could never accept it, nor ever trust her again.


----------



## Dyokemm

I agree Shaggy.

In addition to the betrayal, he had to deal with the utter stupidity of the entire situation.

Even if he ever could have somehow reconciled her cheating in his head, there would still always be an unfathomable and unsolvable mystery as to why the h**l she could ever be so foolish.

Even I as an outsider never could wrap my mind around how she ever got herself into that situation, and I had a lot of empathy for her because you could feel the pain and regret in her posts.


----------



## hibiscus

So I went to my BBF's house after work yesterday. She was already on the wine. Could smell it on her.... As soon as she opened the door she fell apart. She was so broken.

" My marriage is over. What have I done. I am so sorry to everyone. I hate myself. Its over. My life is over. I want to kill myself right now". She kept repeating this. She was scaring me!

We must have sat together for a good couple of hours. She was just a gibbering wreck.I told her that she was very right to confess and that I was proud of her. I told her that it is still possible to R from something as damaging as what she has done. I went through in detail again what my partner and I are going through in our R.
I really didn't know what else to say to her. I don't even think she was listening.

Then her H came back.So awkward! He wouldn't even look at me. He had such a strange look on his face. I already felt guilty that I had known before him. I think he was in shock. He said he has come back to get some more personal belongings and he was leaving again.

My BBF asked him where he was staying. " You actually care for me?? Who are you?? I don't know who you are! I lost my wife today. Why would you care?? Where is my wife???" He replied. They both began to cry and he left despite her pleads for him to stay.

It was AWFUL to witness this! Just awful. 

I left a few hours later. There was nothing more I could do. 

And now I has woken up feeling really angry towards my partner.
Should I be involved in this when I myself am a "fresh" BS??


----------



## Dyokemm

Remember, he needs time to process this and calm down. There is no guarantee that he will stay in this frame of mind forever.

Remind your friend of this.

And this has obviously re-traumatized you to some extent. You just witnessed the darkest time of the exposure and are seeing the most hopeless period. 

In a way, you are too close to objectively see the situation since she is such a good friend and you are seeing this through her eyes to some extent.

Don't forget to remind yourself that they still may have a chance to work on things after he goes through this initial shock and anger period.

To really be there for your friend, you need to give her some positive thoughts and views to help her get through this black pit of despair.

You won't be able to do that if you are in the same place of hopelessness.


----------



## TRy

hibiscus said:


> My BBF asked him where he was staying. " You actually care for me?? Who are you?? I don't know who you are! I lost my wife today. Why would you care?? Where is my wife???" He replied. They both began to cry and he left despite her pleads for him to stay.


 This is a normal reaction by the betrayed spouse. It is way too early in the process for him to be talking reconciliation (R) with her. Her heartfelt crying and pleading with him to stay is exactly what he needed to see for him to consider R with her later. There are many betrayed spouses on this site that would have given their right arm to have had their cheating spouse show real remorse like your BFF did. Because of this,the odds of R are better than most. Give it time to play out. 

Meanwhile she needs you to be there for her. As someone that was cheated on yourself, and as someone that encouraged her to tell her husband when you found out, you may have a future role as a credible intermediary for them. Be well.


----------



## Healer

Damn, that's intense. I'm glad she told him and you didn't have to. I don't think you "pushed" her into anything. You were the voice of reason. She heeded your advice - good on you! 

I'm so sorry this reopened wounds for you. Talk about triggering. Be strong. You're a good egg.


----------



## theroad

Get them each a copy of Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

Offer to meet with them as couples and offer to share how infidelity has effected you. Let him know that you supported and encouraged his WW to confess to you so that the healing can start.


----------



## jay_gatsby

hibiscus said:


> So I went to my BBF's house after work yesterday. She was already on the wine. Could smell it on her.... As soon as she opened the door she fell apart. She was so broken.
> 
> " My marriage is over. What have I done. I am so sorry to everyone. I hate myself. Its over. My life is over. I want to kill myself right now". She kept repeating this. She was scaring me!
> 
> We must have sat together for a good couple of hours. She was just a gibbering wreck.I told her that she was very right to confess and that I was proud of her. I told her that it is still possible to R from something as damaging as what she has done. I went through in detail again what my partner and I are going through in our R.
> I really didn't know what else to say to her. I don't even think she was listening.
> 
> Then her H came back.So awkward! He wouldn't even look at me. He had such a strange look on his face. I already felt guilty that I had known before him. I think he was in shock. He said he has come back to get some more personal belongings and he was leaving again.
> 
> My BBF asked him where he was staying. " You actually care for me?? Who are you?? I don't know who you are! I lost my wife today. Why would you care?? Where is my wife???" He replied. They both began to cry and he left despite her pleads for him to stay.
> 
> It was AWFUL to witness this! Just awful.
> 
> I left a few hours later. There was nothing more I could do.
> 
> And now I has woken up feeling really angry towards my partner.
> Should I be involved in this when I myself am a "fresh" BS??


You can only be a friend. You did what you thought was the right thing. Just imagine if you had been the one to to tell the husband what his wife did? I commend you for doing what you thought was best. My prayers are with you, and your friend and her husband. The rest is in their hands.


----------



## Shaggy

You might want to point him at the site, and give him a copy of mmslp to get him started on the part to healing.


----------



## hibiscus

Oh dear

I just spoke with him. The marriage is over. He is leaving her. He doesn't want to R. He cannot believe that she was hiding this for a year, especially when the two of them use to have numerous conversations about me and my WS. He always said to her that cheating is a dealbreaker.

I totally understand where he is coming from.

She was soooooo stupid. I am just shaking my head with all this.

I will carry on supporting her as much as I can but they are both in for a very rough ride. 

All I can do now is support her through this. I am very sad for her and I am very sorry for her pain but I cannot give her sympathy.


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> Oh dear
> 
> I just spoke with him. The marriage is over. He is leaving her. He doesn't want to R. He cannot believe that she was hiding this for a year, especially when the two of them use to have numerous conversations about me and my WS. He always said to her that cheating is a dealbreaker.
> 
> I totally understand where he is coming from.
> 
> She was soooooo stupid. I am just shaking my head with all this.
> 
> I will carry on supporting her as much as I can but they are both in for a very rough ride.
> 
> All I can do now is support her through this. I am very sad for her and I am very sorry for her pain but I cannot give her sympathy.


The infidelity is bad enough but the year long deception was the true dealbreaker. She bashed your partner for cheating yet was guilty of the same thing. She discussed your situation with her stbxh and never once thought she should confess and try to save her marriage when it first happened. Yes she has proven to be someone who can be unfaithful. But more than that she has proven to be someone who can look the people closest to her in the eyes and lie right to their faces. That's the real issue with your friend.


----------



## hibiscus

I am so glad that my partner confessed straight away. I have a lot of respect for him because of this


----------



## workindad

The year of lies and deceit would be tough to get over. He may still change his mind. Then again maybe not. But he did have a right to know the truth. 

I hope he has a support system in place. He is going to need it. Please encourage him to visit tam. 

Does she still work with om? Hopefully she got checked for stds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

bfree said:


> The infidelity is bad enough but the year long deception was the true dealbreaker. She bashed your partner for cheating yet was guilty of the same thing. She discussed your situation with her stbxh and never once thought she should confess and try to save her marriage when it first happened. Yes she has proven to be someone who can be unfaithful. But more than that she has proven to be someone who can look the people closest to her in the eyes and lie right to their faces. That's the real issue with your friend.


She is clearly not a woman of integrity.Her life is chaos now...All this for a ONS


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> She is clearly not a woman of integrity.Her life is chaos now...All this for a ON


And you were always under the impression that she had the perfect life and marriage. People rarely show their real selves even to their closest friends. Never compare what you have with what anyone else has because if you traded places you would see how good you truly had it. Treasure your life and your relationships because they are truly special.


----------



## hibiscus

workindad said:


> The year of lies and deceit would be tough to get over. He may still change his mind. Then again maybe not. But he did have a right to know the truth.
> 
> I hope he has a support system in place. He is going to need it. Please encourage him to visit tam.
> 
> Does she still work with om? Hopefully she got checked for stds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


TBH I don't know who the OM is as she wont tell me. I have a feeling the OM is someone married too....

My BBF wants me to talk to him and reason with him. I doubt I can at this point. He is in shock and acting irrational but he is a very proud headstrong man. If he says something then he means it. he doesn't mess about with his words. If he is talking about divorce now then it sounds like he has made up his mind.

I will be very surprised if he does R.I don't know how I would have dealt with a year long betrayal either. Like I stated, I am glad that my STBH confessed straightaway. I don't know if I would have given him a chance if I had found out later.


----------



## hibiscus

bfree said:


> And you were always under the impression that she had the perfect life and marriage. People rarely show their real selves even to their closest friends. Never compare what you have with what anyone else has because if you traded places you would see how good you truly had it. Treasure your life and your relationships because they are truly special.


But she did have a perfect life and marriage..until she ruined it.


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> But she did have a perfect life and marriage..until she ruined it.


Not really. The perfect life and marriage doesn't exist. And what she did have she didn't work to create. It was made for her and she just coasted along skipping and whistling. But when something difficult came up, something she couldn't just skip on by she didn't know what to do. Then she was whistling by the graveyard. Had she and her husband worked together to build a strong relationship built on honesty and respect she wouldn't be in this situation now. You and your partner have it in you to create that strong bond that can weather the hard times and should you both build together you will have a solid foundation, not a house of cards.


----------



## jay_gatsby

hibiscus said:


> But she did have a perfect life and marriage..until she ruined it.


I may think differently from most folks on this board, and I know I will get flack for saying this... But do you think she did the right thing? First, maybe you can answer this - did you believe your BFF when she said it was an isolated event, the ONS? If that was the case do you think telling her H ESP 1 year out was worth it?


----------



## Decorum

hibiscus,
Sorry for jumping in late here I have been following it but I did not think it would get to this point.

I really respect you for your decisions in this.

I just want to echo the recommendation above.

Can you contact him and say, "Here is a support forum that offers a great deal of help, just post a thread in the Coping with infidelity section and other betrayed spouses will be glad to come along side with their own experience...hibiscus you know what I mean.

IDK if you feel comfortable with that but please consider it when the time is right.

I'm so impressed with how you have handled yourself here.

Take care!


----------



## The Middleman

hibiscus said:


> My BBF wants me to talk to him and reason with him. I doubt I can at this point. *He is in shock and acting irrational* but he is a very proud headstrong man.


* He is not acting irrational*; in fact he is acting very rationally and is working hard to maintain his self respect and dignity. While this makes him a proud man, that doesn't mean he is headstrong; to call him headstrong after what he went through is an insult. He is doing is what most men (including myself) would do under the same circumstances. While I applaud your friend for confessing, *she is now getting exactly what she deserves*, especially after waiting a whole year to confess. Don't contact him and try to bullsh*t him into going back to your friend; he'll only loose respect for you too. Let him do what he has to do to heal himself. If he finds it in his heart to go back to her, he will. If not, he is doing what is in his own best interest; he doesn't need people clouding his judgement. At this point, your friend and her needs are inconsequential.


----------



## workindad

Op interesting that she is still protecting om. That is a mistake and she should be apprised of such. 
She won't divulge his name... Because you know him also? He's probably married? It was moe than a ONS?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

workindad said:


> Op interesting that she is still protecting om. That is a mistake and she should be apprised of such.
> She won't divulge his name... Because you know him also? He's probably married? It was moe than a ONS?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :iagree::iagree: Absolutely correct. 

OP, there is more to this story than she told you (or you are telling us) and I don't think that she is truly remorseful if she is continuing to protect the OM.


----------



## Shaggy

As others have said, her protecting the OM a year later is basically her choosing loyalty to him over her own husband. If her husband asked, it would have been smart for her to answer any question he asked. When she refused, then what he heard is "I'm still keeping things from you"

After he thinks about it he will then believe "because the affair was more than a ONS, and you don't want me asking the OM for the truth because it won't match yours."

So you gotta wonder why she's protecting the OM still

1. She must still work with him?
2. Could he be her boss?
3. Have she and H socialized with him? After the affair?
4. It was more than a ONS


You should be educating her that then very worst thing she can do is trickle truth, or hide things. Cheating is a betrayal as much as it is sex, she can't take back the sex, but she can end the betrayal and try to show that she will be honest again.


----------



## TRy

hibiscus said:


> I will be very surprised if he does R.I don't know how I would have dealt with a year long betrayal either. Like I stated, I am glad that my STBH confessed straightaway. I don't know if I would have given him a chance if I had found out later.


 Yes but remind her husband that he did not catch her, that in the end she did confess on her own. Without the confession he may never have known. 80% of infidelity goes undetected, thus a lone ONS would probably have never been discovered on by him without her telling him. Also, the child being adopted would have been a hook, but she told before that happened. Plead her case as best you can.


----------



## TRy

Shaggy said:


> As others have said, her protecting the OM a year later is basically her choosing loyalty to him over her own husband. If her husband asked, it would have been smart for her to answer any question he asked. When she refused, then what he heard is "I'm still keeping things from you"


 Maybe she refused to tell the OP, but that is not the same thing as refusing to tell her husband. The real question is, did the husband even ask her who the other man is, and did she then refuse to tell him? If the husband asked and she did refuse, then I agree with you and others on this point.


----------



## LostViking

She needs to out the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

jay_gatsby said:


> I may think differently from most folks on this board, and I know I will get flack for saying this... But do you think she did the right thing? First, maybe you can answer this - did you believe your BFF when she said it was an isolated event, the ONS? If that was the case do you think telling her H ESP 1 year out was worth it?


Yes I did believe her. She sounded so remorseful. And she still is remorseful. I don't believe she is having a full blown affair. I think she became weak and lost control that one time.

I don't believe she will cheat again.

Was it worth her confessing? I don't think she knows at this stage but she clearly needed to tell someone. 

You here of escaped prisoners who run away and then voluntarily return to their home country years later to hand themselves in. Why? Cause they couldn't live under their pretense.

I think she would have cracked eventually. she clearly needed to tell someone. It started with me. She saw my reaction and then knew that she had to tell her H


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> But she did have a perfect life and marriage..until she ruined it.


There is no perfect marriage as it consists of two different individuals that don't always share the same goals, needs, desires, and expectations. They generally have lots in common but are never 100% in agreement on everything. If she had the perfect life and marriage, then you would not be here with this thread, only here for the thread of your own. I am glad that you have held true to your values so hopefully it doesn't affect you that deeply. You might contact the H since he was your friend as well and offer to share some of your thoughts and experiences going through the same thing he is now as well, so he can see he is not the only one and his feelings and actions are normal.


----------



## hibiscus

workindad said:


> Op interesting that she is still protecting om. That is a mistake and she should be apprised of such.
> She won't divulge his name... Because you know him also? He's probably married? It was moe than a ONS?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think its more than a ONS. I think he is married and I think its her boss. She isn't going to tell me tho. 

She works for a high end company and her boss and his wife mingle with celebrities. I think it would create more drama on her part if she exposed the OM. I think its more fear of losing her job than anything else. I know that she lives for her job. She earns tons of money, travels and mixes with celebrities herself.


----------



## Squeakr

I also don't believe the claims that 80% go undetected. Would like to know where these figures are being surmounted from. If it ian an anonymous polo taken, then it would be 80% of the respondents, which is not a true picture of society, but a mere sampling of the polled (as are any poll).


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> As others have said, her protecting the OM a year later is basically her choosing loyalty to him over her own husband. If her husband asked, it would have been smart for her to answer any question he asked. When she refused, then what he heard is "I'm still keeping things from you"
> 
> After he thinks about it he will then believe "because the affair was more than a ONS, and you don't want me asking the OM for the truth because it won't match yours."
> 
> So you gotta wonder why she's protecting the OM still
> 
> 1. She must still work with him?
> 2. Could he be her boss?
> 3. Have she and H socialized with him? After the affair?
> 4. It was more than a ONS
> 
> 
> You should be educating her that then very worst thing she can do is trickle truth, or hide things. Cheating is a betrayal as much as it is sex, she can't take back the sex, but she can end the betrayal and try to show that she will be honest again.


Shaggy I agree and I will work on her. But right now they are both too hurt to think on a level plane. I will give them both some time. I wont force anyone, just support and advice when its appropriate.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> There is no perfect marriage as it consists of two different individuals that don't always share the same goals, needs, desires, and expectations. They generally have lots in common but are never 100% in agreement on everything. If she had the perfect life and marriage, then you would not be here with this thread, only here for the thread of your own. I am glad that you have held true to your values so hopefully it doesn't affect you that deeply. You might contact the H since he was your friend as well and offer to share some of your thoughts and experiences going through the same thing he is now as well, so he can see he is not the only one and his feelings and actions are normal.


Yes I will do so. I also want him to know that we are also friends and that I do care for both of them


----------



## The Middleman

Squeakr said:


> I also don't believe the claims that 80% go undetected. Would like to know where these figures are being surmounted from. If it ian an anonymous polo taken, then it would be 80% of the respondents, which is not a true picture of society, but a mere sampling of the polled (as are any poll).


76.2% of all statistics are bogus.


----------



## hibiscus

Cheating is horrific. So damaging. 

This is giving me some serious triggers. One minute I want to hit my partner with a baseball bat and the next I want to hug him forever and tell him how proud I am for the way he is making amends.


----------



## LostViking

hibiscus said:


> I don't think its more than a ONS. I think he is married and I think its her boss. She isn't going to tell me tho.
> 
> She works for a high end company and her boss and his wife mingle with celebrities. I think it would create more drama on her part if she exposed the OM. I think its more fear of losing her job than anything else. I know that she lives for her job. She earns tons of money, travels and mixes with celebrities herself.


Well then I ask you... given the exalted group she associates with (celebrities and media types who are renowned for their licentious lifestyles) do you think she would have been able to resist the seductive aspects of that environment for long, even if she had not cheated with this particular OM? 

I think she would have succumbed eventually. Like turning a crack addict loose in a pharmacy. I disagree with you that she will never cheat again. If she continues hanging out with this group of people, I predict she will astonish and mortify you with the behavior she will start engaging in. I believe if her husband divorces her then the brakes will be off, and you will see a very ugly side of the friend who you thought you knew so well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> I don't think its more than a ONS. I think he is married and I think its her boss. She isn't going to tell me tho.
> 
> She works for a high end company and her boss and his wife mingle with celebrities. I think it would create more drama on her part if she exposed the OM. I think its more fear of losing her job than anything else. I know that she lives for her job. She earns tons of money, travels and mixes with celebrities herself.


YMMV in England, but in the States she wouldn't have to worry about her job. If she gets fired, she has a good case for sexual harassment since it's her boss. She just has to play it like it was 'expected' by him and they'll fire him and coddle her.


----------



## Aunt Ava

hibiscus said:


> She told him on her own. I told her that I couldn't be in their company because I couldn't look her H in the face and pretend that everything is cool.


Kudos, and big hugs for you. What you said was the perfect thing to say. 

For you own sake (and marriage) you may need to take a step back since you still trying to recover from betrayal yourself. This is bound to get worse before it gets better. Perhaps you should encourage your friend to seek professional counseling.


----------



## Squeakr

The Middleman said:


> 76.2% of all statistics are bogus.



90 % are made up on the spot!!!!


----------



## hibiscus

OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!

OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.

I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


----------



## hibiscus

I told you guys! This is what I was afraid of! If I had told him than I would have blamed myself for all this!


----------



## Jellybeans

I say, butt out.


----------



## Squeakr

larry.gray said:


> YMMV in England, but in the States she wouldn't have to worry about her job. If she gets fired, she has a good case for sexual harassment since it's her boss. She just has to play it like it was 'expected' by him and they'll fire him and coddle her.



In the states, they will generally both be terminated, as they will fire him for the sexual harassment being he is the boss, and find a way to get her to resign/ leave or be terminated (for some deriliction of duty) as once the story gets out its causes too much drama in the work place. 

Her termination will in no way be related to the sexual harassment charges (as they will make sure to keep distance from a wrongful termination lawsuit) but more related to performance, as they will usually make it nearly impossible for her to perform her jobs to the new standards and expectations that will accompany the "increased" work load. Generally an employer will make it hard for her to get good reviews and ever be promoted, so they "encourage" her to leave on her own accord before she is terminated for poor job performance or forever stuck in a dead end, no-where job. All strictly legal (shady as hell, but legal) as this is in no way associated to the charges filed (and it would need to be proven if claimed) which is where the poor performance reviews could come into play.


----------



## larry.gray

That's actually a bit of a positive sign. If he rode off into the sunset to never be heard from again, then he would be really done. Wanting to get into it with the OM means he does still care about her.

Hopefully he doesn't get into too much trouble out of this.


----------



## Aunt Ava

hibiscus said:


> I told you guys! This is what I was afraid of! If I had told him than I would have blamed myself for all this!


You are NOT to blame for any of this! You know better than most what he is feeling, and the devastation she has wrought on him. Please advise him to seek help, from family, friends and a doctor. He is obviously distraught, and needs support.


----------



## larry.gray

Squeakr said:


> Generally an employer will make it hard for her to get good reviews and ever be promoted, so they "encourage" her to leave on her own accord before she is terminated for poor job performance or forever stuck in a dead end, no-where job. All strictly legal (shady as hell, but legal) as this is in no way associated to the charges filed (and it would need to be proven if claimed) which is where the poor performance reviews could come into play.


If there is a sudden, drastic change in assignments and the performance reviews around the time of this event, they are on shaky legal ground. This is exactly what employers do with whistleblowers and other protected people, and the courts aren't stupid.


----------



## Aunt Ava

hibiscus said:


> OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!
> 
> OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.
> 
> I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


Be prepared for her to say "I never should have told him" and give you a recriminating look. Your only reply should be..."No, you should never have CHEATED".


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!
> 
> OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.
> 
> I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


 She told him something, and is once again holding/ hiding that same something from you. She is definitely not being your BFF by lying to you and her character flaws are driving this whole issue, yet she is playing on your emotions to make you feel that you own her the support and friendship that she is unwilling to reciprocate.. There is no explainable reason that her H would have shown up at her work and start a fight with someone if he didn't know or suspect something more. I agree that you need to withdraw from this situation for sometime, as she is with holding information that could get you involved/ drug into something you don't want or shouldn't be exposed to. You don't have all the information at this point to make informed and rational decisions.


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!
> 
> OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.
> 
> I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


This is because she is refusing to reveal who her AP is/was. Sorry to say but your friend is handling this completely wrong. I'd stay out of it at this point.


----------



## The Middleman

hibiscus said:


> OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!
> 
> OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.
> 
> I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


Sounds like he knows who the OM is. This isn't going to end well for your friend. If this were the states, she would have to tell her employer everything and jobs would be lost.


----------



## bfree

Squeakr said:


> She told him something, and is once again holding/ hiding that same something from you. She is definitely not being your BFF by lying to you and her character flaws are driving this whole issue, yet she is playing on your emotions to make you feel that you own her the support and friendship that she is unwilling to reciprocate.. There is no explainable reason that her H would have shown up at her work and start a fight with someone if he didn't know or suspect something more. I agree that you need to withdraw from this situation for sometime, as she is with holding information that could get you involved/ drug into something you don't want or shouldn't be exposed to. You don't have all the information at this point to make informed and rational decisions.


Yup, it sounds like he was suspicious of something already. It would have come out eventually.


----------



## Squeakr

larry.gray said:


> If there is a sudden, drastic change in assignments and the performance reviews around the time of this event, they are on shaky legal ground. This is exactly what employers do with whistleblowers and other protected people, and the courts aren't stupid.



Agreed, that is why they generally track the issues for a longer than normal period here. When the usual person might only get 6 months before being terminated, the involved party gets 1 to 2 years. This way they can show that the person never changed throughout the time and it wasn't an immediate judgement. Most employers here don't track assignments that the employee would be able to show the changes. They also hint many times along the way that it might be best to just leave and they will give a good review. It is shady as hell, but I have seen it more times than I care to recall. I was and have never been in a position to be able to change anything, but have seen it. Also saw it firsthand where the supervisor was "moved" to another department and nothing ever annotated in the permanent record. Without proof, it is a he said, she said world, and all the employer has to do is insure the safety of their employees and that in such "events" due diligence is taken to insure that everything is addressed and handled properly. That could mean that their investigations revealed no such activity ever took place. The employee was trained in how to spot and react in situations that arise in the future like this and no wrong doing was determined to have happened. I have also seen it where both parties have been terminated on the spot as they were trained in such situations when first hired and went against corporate policy by not stopping it/ reporting it sooner.


Unfortunately these are the side effects of living in a litigious society where everyone thinks they can get rich quick by skirting the rules.


----------



## Jeffery

just caught up sorry to say it looks like her one night stand was really a full blown off affair. if it was with her boss. have you thought of encouraging her to come to Tam for advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad

Op I agree with JB you may want to butt out until he cools down. None if this is your fault. You didn't make her sleep with anyone else. She chose that herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

Back off and stay out of it for now. Encourage your GF to rent a hotel for a couple days until her husband cools his jets. I hope he doesn't get arrested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Yeah maybe I'm slow but if she is so devestated over hurting her husband and possibly ending her marriage why did she go to work....unless it was to warn her lover. If I were her husband that's what I'd be thinking.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> Oh dear
> 
> I just spoke with him. The marriage is over. He is leaving her. He doesn't want to R. He cannot believe that she was hiding this for a year, especially when the two of them use to have numerous conversations about me and my WS. He always said to her that cheating is a dealbreaker.
> 
> I totally understand where he is coming from.
> 
> She was soooooo stupid. I am just shaking my head with all this.
> 
> I will carry on supporting her as much as I can but they are both in for a very rough ride.
> 
> All I can do now is support her through this. I am very sad for her and I am very sorry for her pain but I cannot give her sympathy.


Let his emotions settle for now. Today is his D-day. Lot of stuff will be said.


----------



## workindad

Bfree your post would match up with her protecting om by not revealing his name. 

There is more to her story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> This is because she is refusing to reveal who her AP is/was. Sorry to say but your friend is handling this completely wrong. I'd stay out of it at this point.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> Yeah maybe I'm slow but if she is so devestated over hurting her husband and possibly ending her marriage why did she go to work....unless it was to warn her lover. If I were her husband that's what I'd be thinking.


Exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> OMG! BBF just called and her H turned up at her workplace unexpectedly! He started a fight with a young guy! They have called the police and he has been taken to the police station!!!!!!!!
> 
> OMG I got to calm him!! He is getting out of control! Geez what do I do?? I hate violence.
> 
> I am leaving in a min to my BBF's house. I am scared tho!! He is going nuts. I don't like his behaviour?!


It's time that your BBF needs to choose what side she gives her loyalty to. She was loyal to her husband, then she started this when she chose to betray that and be with the ONS. Since it's at work, she chose to be loyal to the OM by hiding who he is, and by continuing to work with him for another year.

She needs to pick one or the other and be 100% loyal and honest with them. In stuff like this you really can't cake eat.

She needs to communicate to her husband that she chooses him over all others, including herself. If she slept with her boss, then sorry but frankly that choice created a situation where she simply should not be working for him. Not out of punishment to her, but out of simple respect and loyalty to her husband.

Look, I'm not insensitive to the terrible events that are going on in her life, but this is the dark downside to betraying your spouse, especially at work. Friendships, careers, marriages and families get ripped apart by such betrayals and choices.

And while emotions are running high right this moment, they will calm and reason will return.

She needs to be preparing for when reason returns because her actions in next short while can make or break it for her.

Her husband has lost ALL trust in her - she therefor needs to go about rebuilding that trust.

The first thing is for her to be completely honest - and second lie or trickle truth will a fast end to her chance. She needs to understand that showing she is honest now going forward is far more important than hiding any awful thing she did in the past. It's the coverup and lies that hurt the most now.

The second thing is to show her total primary loyalty to him is what she is all about. This includes telling who the OM is and even exposing him. If its her boss, well frankly she should have left a long time ago. She's had a full year to look for a new gig.

Have her take a leave of absence from work and offer to her husband that she will quit and get a new position.


----------



## tom67

Have your husband talk to him maybe he needs to talk to another guy. Have him explain you recently found out about this. I hope she bailed him out ugh that sux!


----------



## Jasel

idk I think at this point maybe you should back off from the situation a bit until emotions have cooled. You did as much as you could, and more than most people would have done themselves. I doubt your friend would have said anything if she hadn't involved you, however indirectly, to begin with. 

Recommend some books and offer an open ear and a shoulder to cry on, but it's not your job to help repair their relationship or their marriage. Especially while still working on your own.


----------



## Shaggy

You might offer to let her stay with you for a week to give him space and access to home.


----------



## JCD

I'm just appalled.


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus, please remember why you are here.

*It is because your friend cheated.
*


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> TBH I don't know who the OM is as she wont tell me. I have a feeling the OM is someone married too....
> 
> My BBF wants me to talk to him and reason with him. I doubt I can at this point. He is in shock and acting irrational but he is a very proud headstrong man. If he says something then he means it. he doesn't mess about with his words. If he is talking about divorce now then it sounds like he has made up his mind.
> 
> I will be very surprised if he does R.I don't know how I would have dealt with a year long betrayal either. Like I stated, I am glad that my STBH confessed straightaway. I don't know if I would have given him a chance if I had found out later.



You can start by telling the BH that you understand how he feels now. Though that his mind is so overwrought he should delay making any life changing decisions for 6 months. Then give him a copy of Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

Then have your WH talk with him how WS's can change.


----------



## theroad

workindad said:


> Op interesting that she is still protecting om. That is a mistake and she should be apprised of such.
> She won't divulge his name... Because you know him also? He's probably married? It was moe than a ONS?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Tell your friend that recovery can never happen as long as she trickle truths. Let her know that her refusing to identify the OM she is protecting the OM and still putting the OM ahead of her BH.

No BH will tolerate being 2nd place to the OM.


----------



## hibiscus

Ok she spilled the beans last night. The OM wasn't her boss but a work colleague that she has been socialising with for a few years. But he is also married and my BBF and H has spent a lot of social time with him and his wife. This is also going to have a knock on effect with the OM's marriage as they have just had a child together.

I don't know the OM because he is not in my circle of friends.

She and the OM have flirted for years apparently and her H would pick up on it sometimes and question her. "We are just friends" was her remark.

To cut a long story short she told her H indirectly that the OM was who he suspected. Anyway he turned up at her workplace demanding to speak to him. The OM was denying everything. My BBF was called to the reception where they both were and the H went into a rage and hit the OM in the face.The police were called and he was cautioned at the station.

I have told the BBF that she needs to tell her H the whole truth. To give him time to process it all. Its just gonna be a long rough ride.

The H doesn't want to speak to me altho I have told him that I only knew about her cheating for a week......

He still hasn't come home and he still doesn't want want to R. I am not even gonna tell you the names he has called her since sunday. I suppose he hasn't physically hit her which is a good thing. Besides the coffee incident

I need a break from this. I feel very sorry for both of them and the OM's wife.


----------



## hibiscus

Aunt Ava said:


> Be prepared for her to say "I never should have told him" and give you a recriminating look. Your only reply should be..."No, you should never have CHEATED".


Yes that's what she said. But I told her she was very brave to tell. It was the right thing to do


----------



## tom67

Well there it is. Of course he won't believe it was a ons he saw how they acted when they were together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

The husband suspected and confronted her. She lied to him and probably made him think he was crazy. Turns out he was right along along. I'm doubting that it was a ONS. I'm betting that it was an affair and was going on while the OM's wife was pregnant. It would have come out eventually. The fact that she gaslighted him and continued to work with her lover is not going to help things at all. Your friend is a idiot.


----------



## hibiscus

tom67 said:


> Well there it is. Of course he won't believe it was a ons he saw how they acted when they were together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes he put it together and knew.

I remember seeing the ex that my STBH had a ONS with. We were at a wedding and he was buying her drinks all night. I also caught her giving me a really long stare. I found it to be very odd.....especially as he didn't formally introduce me to his female "friend".

When I asked him who she was and why was he buying her drinks, he replied with;

"She is just a friend"
I HATE that phrase.

When he confessed that he had slept with someone, he said I wouldn't know her. I replied "YES I DO!! IT WAS THE EX YOU WERE HANGING OUT WITH AT THE WEDDING!"

He seemed shocked that I guessed her. :scratchhead:

I got to calm down. Feeling so angry towards my partner right now


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Ok she spilled the beans last night. The OM wasn't her boss but a work colleague that she has been socialising with for a few years. But he is also married and my BBF and H has spent a lot of social time with him and his wife. This is also going to have a knock on effect with the OM's marriage as they have just had a child together.
> 
> I don't know the OM because he is not in my circle of friends.
> *
> She and the OM have flirted for years apparently and her H would pick up on it sometimes and question her. "We are just friends" was her remark.*
> 
> To cut a long story short she told her H indirectly that the OM was who he suspected. Anyway he turned up at her workplace demanding to speak to him. The OM was denying everything. My BBF was called to the reception where they both were and the H went into a rage and hit the OM in the face.The police were called and he was cautioned at the station.
> 
> I have told the BBF that she needs to tell her H the whole truth. To give him time to process it all. Its just gonna be a long rough ride.
> 
> The H doesn't want to speak to me altho I have told him that I only knew about her cheating for a week......
> 
> He still hasn't come home and he still doesn't want want to R. I am not even gonna tell you the names he has called her since sunday. I suppose he hasn't physically hit her which is a good thing. Besides the coffee incident
> 
> I need a break from this. I feel very sorry for both of them and the OM's wife.


Flirted for years? Hubby knew about and this confronted her about it and she still slept with the guy? How disrespectful is that? _Oh and in no way do I believe this was a one night stand either...no way.._.


----------



## LostViking

hibiscus said:


> Yes that's what she said. But I told her she was very brave to tell. It was the right thing to do


Her affair was eating away at her when she told you about it. Had she kept it secret it would have festered inside her and slowly eaten away at her conscience and eventually would have destroyed her marriage anyways. She is just reacting to the drama that she has caused. Once things calm down she will come to realize she did the right thing by confessing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

I also have a hunch that your friend has not been honest with you. My guess from you have written that it was more of an affair than a ONS.


----------



## tom67

I hope he finds out where he lives and tells his wife. There are consequences to be had.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> The husband suspected and confronted her. She lied to him and probably made him think he was crazy. Turns out he was right along along. I'm doubting that it was a ONS. I'm betting that it was an affair and was going on while the OM's wife was pregnant. It would have come out eventually. The fact that she gaslighted him and continued to work with her lover is not going to help things at all. Your friend is a idiot.


The disrespect and the lies killed this marriage.:iagree:


----------



## LostViking

Hibiscus, even if your friend was not having a full blown affair with the OM, the fact that she was flirting with him and opening up to him emotionally is bad enough. Lets be honest, your friend has piss poor boundaries. She was an affair waiting to happen. If it had not been this OM, it would have been someone else down the road. 

If your friendship survives this, the best thing you could do for would be to encourage her to get some intensive IC to find out why her boundaries are so weak, or she will be doomed to keep repeating this behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbados

hibiscus said:


> Ok she spilled the beans last night. The OM wasn't her boss but a work colleague that she has been socialising with for a few years. But he is also married and my BBF and H has spent a lot of social time with him and his wife. This is also going to have a knock on effect with the OM's marriage as they have just had a child together.
> 
> I don't know the OM because he is not in my circle of friends.
> 
> She and the OM have flirted for years apparently and her H would pick up on it sometimes and question her. *"We are just friends"* was her remark.
> 
> To cut a long story short she told her H indirectly that the OM was who he suspected. Anyway he turned up at her workplace demanding to speak to him. The OM was denying everything. My BBF was called to the reception where they both were and the H went into a rage and hit the OM in the face.The police were called and he was cautioned at the station.
> 
> I have told the BBF that she needs to tell her H the whole truth. To give him time to process it all. Its just gonna be a long rough ride.
> 
> The H doesn't want to speak to me altho I have told him that I only knew about her cheating for a week......
> 
> He still hasn't come home and he still doesn't want want to R. I am not even gonna tell you the names he has called her since sunday. I suppose he hasn't physically hit her which is a good thing. Besides the coffee incident
> 
> I need a break from this. I feel very sorry for both of them and the OM's wife.



*UGH ! *

The Cheater Kiss of Death Remark ! Right along with "WE JUST KISSED" !!

You have done all you can do for now. I would take time and step back from this for a while if I were you.

Unfortunately the BH rug swept the flirting, and that this was a ONS is very unlikely given these new details.


----------



## tom67

Take a break from this. You are just going to trigger.


----------



## Shaggy

So it was much more than a ONS - it was at least years of her lying to her husband and dismissing his entirely VALID concerns.

That's why he's in such a rage , its years of her disrespecting his concerns now coming out as being the truth.

This is what has really killed her marriage not just the ONS, but the years of dismissing her husband when it was all true. She chose attention and affection from this OM at the expense of honesty and faithfulness with her husband.

Even if it was only one night of sex, it was years of foreplay.

And to really rub it in, she slept with the guy a year ago, and has since gone on to humiliate her husband by continuing to socialize with the lover and to have her husband do it too. That in itself is nasty.

She's got another test coming - will she choose her husband and tell the truth when asked by the OMW, who she knows personally and socially, or will she choose her lover?

-years of flirting and build up
-dismissing husbands valid concerns
-sex at least once
-having BS socialize with her lover before and after the sex
-hiding her cheating for a year

As we so often find out this is way bigger than she got drunk and fooled around once. The truth is that there has been a cancer rotting away inside of her marriage for years.


----------



## aug

I suppose your friend, after the OM had a baby, knew he was not going to leave his wife and child for her.


----------



## tom67

Have your husband contact him and check up on him it would be a good reminder of how devastating this is for a bs don't you think?


----------



## workindad

Obviously she is still trickle truthing. An absolute killer for a chance at successful R. Just another way to protect hersf and OM at her husbands expense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Truthseeker1 said:


> Flirted for years? Hubby knew about and this confronted her about it and she still slept with the guy? How disrespectful is that? _Oh and in no way do I believe this was a one night stand either...no way.._.


Oh, it might have been a ONS. Of a certain kind.

Flirts with OM for years. Lets him buy her drinks. They kiss and cuddle (maybe) it is such an adventure! Doing all this dirty, secret, exciting stuff and her poor, dumb husband doesn't know about it.

Eventually they take it to the ultimate conclusion, they have sex.

And this is when the gilt doesn't come off the ginger bread, this is when the gilt is pressure washed off with a high power hose.

Adventure and excitement is now replaced by guilt.

"Oh, s**t! The reason my husband was clueless was because he trusted me! Now what do I do?"

Hibiscus, did her friendship with OM change after the ONS? If so, in what way?


----------



## Jasel

Ya it really doesn't even sound like this was a ONS. 

It sounds more like a lot of lines being crossed at best or an EA at worst that eventually went PA no matter how briefly. Whether it was once or not doesn't make much of a difference when you take everything else into account. This isn't like she got drunk, picked up a guy at a bar, had sex with him one night and never talked to him again. 

This was a co-worker who she had an inappropriate relationship with before sleeping with him, so much so that her husband actually felt the need to question her about it, wound up sleeping with him anyway, and then continued to work with him while lying to her husband for years about their interactions/relationship (ie: "He's just a friend"). 

So ya I really don't think what she did counts as a ONS, although it might make her feel better to think of it that way.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> Ok she spilled the beans last night. The OM wasn't her boss but a work colleague that she has been socialising with for a few years. But he is also married and my BBF and H has spent a lot of social time with him and his wife. This is also going to have a knock on effect with the OM's marriage as they have just had a child together.
> 
> I don't know the OM because he is not in my circle of friends.
> 
> She and the OM have flirted for years apparently and her H would pick up on it sometimes and question her. "We are just friends" was her remark.
> 
> To cut a long story short she told her H indirectly that the OM was who he suspected. Anyway he turned up at her workplace demanding to speak to him. The OM was denying everything. My BBF was called to the reception where they both were and the H went into a rage and hit the OM in the face.The police were called and he was cautioned at the station.
> 
> I have told the BBF that she needs to tell her H the whole truth. To give him time to process it all. Its just gonna be a long rough ride.
> 
> The H doesn't want to speak to me altho I have told him that I only knew about her cheating for a week......
> 
> He still hasn't come home and he still doesn't want want to R. I am not even gonna tell you the names he has called her since sunday. I suppose he hasn't physically hit her which is a good thing. Besides the coffee incident
> 
> I need a break from this. I feel very sorry for both of them and the OM's wife.


yet again, the OM was someone the husband was always uneasy with....
I don't feel sorry for you friend at all. Looks like she kept crossing multiple boundaries even when she knew her H wasn't comfortable with this guy until it culminated into sex(and probably kept doing it). Her story does not sound right. Don't be surprised to find out more about it. For now, be a support for the friend. Pull back if that is what she wants.


----------



## azteca1986

hibiscus said:


> I got to calm down. Feeling so angry towards my partner right now


Be careful you don't wreck your own R over this, hibiscus.


----------



## life101

Refer her to an IC, may be an MC (though I feel too much water under the bridge already), and stay out of it.

It is not your battle. You did the right thing by suggesting her to confess. The cheating was her choice, and the confession was her choice too. You didn't force her to do anything.

She didn't ask you before cheating.


----------



## Row Jimmy

This is a great example of how serious the fallout of honesty can be as forgiveness isn't always going to be the end result.

People making the decision to tell on themselves or friends like Hisbiscus who know a secret need to keep that in mind before blowing up someone's life. 

I'm not saying telling is wrong. I'm saying there is a cost and a very serious downside and you dont' know how bad it'll be until the bill comes due.

Not everyone gets the happy ending and rides off into the sunset like Dig and Regret.


----------



## life101

Row Jimmy said:


> This is a great example of how serious the fallout of honesty can be as forgiveness isn't always going to be the end result.
> 
> People making the decision to tell on themselves or friends like Hisbiscus who know a secret need to keep that in mind before blowing up someone's life.
> 
> I'm not saying telling is wrong. I'm saying there is a cost and a very serious downside and you dont' know how bad it'll be until the bill comes due.
> 
> Not everyone gets the happy ending and rides off into the sunset like Dig and Regret.


Possibility of happy ending ended when cheating occurred. A child's future was involved here and it had to be protected.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Row Jimmy,

I think hibiscus is realizing now that her friend likely lied to her and that this affair wasn't just a one night stand. To make things worse, the cheater in this case was preparing to bring a child into this situation. 

The serious fallout is not from honesty. Its from the affair and the cheaters lies over a long period of time.


----------



## tom67

Row Jimmy said:


> This is a great example of how serious the fallout of honesty can be as forgiveness isn't always going to be the end result.
> 
> People making the decision to tell on themselves or friends like Hisbiscus who know a secret need to keep that in mind before blowing up someone's life.
> 
> I'm not saying telling is wrong. I'm saying there is a cost and a very serious downside and you dont' know how bad it'll be until the bill comes due.
> 
> Not everyone gets the happy ending and rides off into the sunset like Dig and Regret.


Just think how bad it would be if bh found out after they adopted. Geez the lying and "we are just friends" crap. Well now she is married to her job not her husband.


----------



## Aunt Ava

Row Jimmy, the BH deserved to know he was living a lie. Don't you think its telling that the WW first told her dear friend who has so recently been betrayed herself? It became even more important to be honest because they were in the process of adopting an innocent child. 

I hope you are not in my circle of friends. No matter how painful I opt for hearing the truth.


----------



## Healer

hibiscus said:


> Oh dear
> 
> I just spoke with him. The marriage is over. He is leaving her. He doesn't want to R. He cannot believe that she was hiding this for a year, especially when the two of them use to have numerous conversations about me and my WS. He always said to her that cheating is a dealbreaker.
> 
> I totally understand where he is coming from.
> 
> She was soooooo stupid. I am just shaking my head with all this.
> 
> I will carry on supporting her as much as I can but they are both in for a very rough ride.
> 
> All I can do now is support her through this. I am very sad for her and I am very sorry for her pain but I cannot give her sympathy.


Damn. Regret is a helluva thing - and she's going to live with it for the rest of her life. Lives ruined, all for some cheap, dirty strange. Terrible.


----------



## tom67

Hmm, the husband should tell her he might r with her if she takes a poly, I bet it's a full blown affair.


----------



## Shaggy

Row Jimmy said:


> This is a great example of how serious the fallout of honesty can be as forgiveness isn't always going to be the end result.
> 
> People making the decision to tell on themselves or friends like Hisbiscus who know a secret need to keep that in mind before blowing up someone's life.
> 
> I'm not saying telling is wrong. I'm saying there is a cost and a very serious downside and you dont' know how bad it'll be until the bill comes due.
> 
> Not everyone gets the happy ending and rides off into the sunset like Dig and Regret.


Actually this is much more an example of what betrayal, boundary crossing, lies, dismissing your partners concerns, and carrying on inappropriately with others can trash a marriage.

Jimmy, you fail to acknowledge that the problem don't that the BH knows that he's been living a lie of a marriage, the problem here is that she has cheated, and has been carrying on with the OM even when her husband called her on it.

What was first label a one time drunken ONS is now revealed to be years of marriage destroying behavior by the wife.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Healer said:


> Damn. Regret is a helluva thing - and she's going to live with it for the rest of her life. Lives ruined, all for some cheap, dirty strange. Terrible.


There is more to the story than we (including hibiscus) know. Its possible she may be putting on the waterworks and the remorseful spouse persona because her fantasy land is over. Considering that she likely had an affair of considerable length, repeatedly lied to her husband, and has directed some anger at Hibiscus with the "shouldn't have told him" nonsense, her real character has been revealed. She may be agonize over betraying her husband for life, or she may just be upset that her lifestyle is over. Who knows.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Shaggy said:


> What was first label a one time drunken ONS is now revealed to be years of marriage destroying behavior by the wife.


i think the only person who labeled this a drunken ONS was hisbiscus. And her friend. I think she realizes now that its not the case and there is much more to the story. Her friend is still TT'ing both her husband and hibiscus.


----------



## tom67

Your friend if she had any decency and remorse should give her stbxh her lover's home address ad/or his wife's phone number maybe she would have a chance but it's also the right thing to do jmo.


----------



## Jasel

Man whenever I hear stories like this I always want to ask people like the bff "Was it seriously worth it (cheating)??? How exactly did you think this was going to turn out???"


----------



## JCD

MattMatt said:


> Oh, it might have been a ONS. Of a certain kind.
> 
> Flirts with OM for years. Lets him buy her drinks. They kiss and cuddle (maybe) it is such an adventure! Doing all this dirty, secret, exciting stuff and her poor, dumb husband doesn't know about it.
> 
> Eventually they take it to the ultimate conclusion, they have sex.
> 
> And this is when the gilt doesn't come off the ginger bread, this is when the gilt is pressure washed off with a high power hose.
> 
> Adventure and excitement is now replaced by guilt.
> 
> "Oh, s**t! The reason my husband was clueless was because he trusted me! Now what do I do?"
> 
> Hibiscus, did her friendship with OM change after the ONS? If so, in what way?


This sounds more likely.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Possibly. Also possible that once OM had a child, her friend started feeling that they never had a future together , things started being less fun, and for whatever reason told her friend. Maybe guilt did set in. Or maybe she was just testing the waters to see how another person would react. Plenty of stories here where the cheater's friends say " you deserve to be happy !" 

Still just speculation. No one knows the details except the cheater. But it seems that this affair was a lot more than a ONS. Hibiscus, this is a terrible way to find out that your friend is not the woman that anyone thought she was. For your sanity, taking a step back from both parties here may be good for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BrockLanders

You don't rat out your friends, but you can implore them to tell the truth. If its an issue end your friendship. That's my two cents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

BrockLanders said:


> You don't rat out your friends, but you can implore them to tell the truth. If its an issue end your friendship. That's my two cents.


If they are cheating and will not do the right thing, they are no longer a friend. Then you tell the innocent party.


----------



## 3putt

BrockLanders said:


> You don't rat out your friends, but you can implore them to tell the truth. If its an issue end your friendship. That's my two cents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's exactly what she did, so what's the problem?

Oh, and real friends wouldn't drop this kind of bomb in their friend's lap if they were a true friend, and not expect them to react at least similarly to how hibiscus did.

I've lost a lot of so called "friends" over the years, but I've never lost my integrity for covering for one of them when I knew what they were doing was wrong.

Seriously, who needs friends like that?!


----------



## EleGirl

3putt said:


> That's exactly what she did, so what's the problem?
> 
> Oh, and real friends wouldn't drop this kind of bomb in their friend's lap if they were a true friend, and not expect them to react at least similarly to how hibiscus did.
> 
> I've lost a lot of so called "friends" over the years, but I've never lost my integrity for covering for one of them when I knew what they were doing was wrong.
> 
> Seriously, who needs friends like that?!


Seriously. 

I've had 'friends' drop horrible bombs on me. Infidelity is only one of them. It angers me when someone tells me some horrible secret, unloading their conscious on me, and then expecting me to carry their burden. I don't tolerate 'friends' like that.

Now if they tell me and their idea is that they want support in doing the right thing, that's a different story.


----------



## Truthseeker1

EleGirl said:


> Seriously.
> 
> I've had 'friends' drop horrible bombs on me. Infidelity is only one of them. *It angers me when someone tells me some horrible secret, unloading their conscious on me, and then expecting me to carry their burden.* I don't tolerate 'friends' like that.
> 
> Now if they tell me and their idea is that they want support in doing the right thing, that's a different story.


Sometimes in life the negative "friends" have to go...


----------



## Hortensia

Ah, so it was at least an EA prior to the ONS? Doubt it was just once too. That changes everything.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Hortensia said:


> Ah, so it was at least an EA prior to the ONS? Doubt it was just once too. That changes everything.


And the husband confronted her about the flirting in the past....but she continued right along and now her world has imploded :slap:


----------



## Hortensia

Oh well, that's a completely different story than just having a meaningless stupid ONS long ago that does no longer count we first heard of. It was an EA/PA and her husband sensed it all along. Of course he doesn't wanna R !


----------



## tom67

Truthseeker1 said:


> And the husband confronted her about the flirting in the past....but she continued right along and now her world has imploded :slap:


Truly SAD!


----------



## Decorum

Yep, its mating behavior, to establish sexual compatibly and consent, once established its very hard to resist.

Mating behavior leads to mating!

I must be a rocket scientist. :rofl:


----------



## Dyokemm

Just wanted to say, what a chickens**t POSOM thus guy was too.

He's standing face to face with a guy he's socialized with. Undoubtedly had drinks and shook hands with. Probably been to each other's houses.

The BH confronts and tells him the WW confessed and he still sits there and tries to lie and deny. No owning his s**t. No apology for stabbing an acquaintance (at the least, if not a friend) in the back, not that one would really make a difference to the BH.

Just absolutely no 'manning up' at all to be held accountable to a man he wrongly f'd over.

I'm glad BH popped this POS in the face.

Hope it leads to him getting canned at work along with the foolish WW.


----------



## mrtickle

I know this has all moved on from page 1, and I know that this isn't the popular view on here - but whilst I think the OP not intervening was the right thing to do, I am not sure that a blanket encouragement to 'come clean' was a good idea. I'll probably be labelled a POS because of this, but to me its all down to the remorse shown, whether it was a one-off event that the WS was truly sorry about, how stable their marriage really is, personalities involved etc.

I know the WS 'coming clean' will unburden her, will clear those skeletons out of the closet and will allow the BS options in terms of whether to continue the relationship. 

I just don't think I would automatically advise to come clean, unless I was pretty sure of the outcome.

Obv different if we are talking about an affair.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just immoral


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



JCD said:


> This sounds more likely.


But just as bad imho.


----------



## Dyokemm

Mr.Tickle,

I definitely won't slam or attack you for your opinion, but I do disagree with you 100%.

Lying and deception are NEVER a good option in my opinion and experience.

Hiding life altering info from a BS to prevent them from potentially making a choice/decision that the WS does not want is not only cowardly, but is also shamefully manipulative, not to mention the complete immorality (IMO) of trying to assume control over the life decisions of another human being.

I respect your right to disagree, and I would argue to defend you from anyone else's attacks or put downs.

But I cannot accept you argument as being the correct path to follow.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



3putt said:


> That's exactly what she did, so what's the problem?
> 
> Oh, and real friends wouldn't drop this kind of bomb in their friend's lap if they were a true friend, and not expect them to react at least similarly to how hibiscus did.
> 
> I've lost a lot of so called "friends" over the years, but I've never lost my integrity for covering for one of them when I knew what they were doing was wrong.
> 
> Seriously, who needs friends like that?!


I agree. I feel bad for hibiscus in all of this. She didn't ask to be dragged into her friend's path of destruction and she had her own things to worry about. The more I think about this the more I believe that her friend knew something would go down sooner or later and wanted hibiscus to be an ally and shoulder to cry on. To me that's just more selfishness knowing what hibiscus was going through.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> I agree. I feel bad for hibiscus in all of this. She didn't ask to be dragged into her friend's path of destruction and she had her own things to worry about. The more I think about this the more I believe that her friend knew something would go down sooner or later and wanted hibiscus to be an ally and shoulder to cry on. To me that's just more selfishness knowing what hibiscus was going through.


Yes :iagree:


----------



## Shaggy

mrtickle said:


> I know this has all moved on from page 1, and I know that this isn't the popular view on here - but whilst I think the OP not intervening was the right thing to do, I am not sure that a blanket encouragement to 'come clean' was a good idea. I'll probably be labelled a POS because of this, but to me its all down to the remorse shown, whether it was a one-off event that the WS was truly sorry about, how stable their marriage really is, personalities involved etc.
> 
> I know the WS 'coming clean' will unburden her, will clear those skeletons out of the closet and will allow the BS options in terms of whether to continue the relationship.
> 
> I just don't think I would automatically advise to come clean, unless I was pretty sure of the outcome.
> 
> Obv different if we are talking about an affair.
> 
> I dunno. Maybe I'm just immoral



But as it turns out the ONS wasn't neither the start nor the end of her behavior and betrayal.

I don't think she wife was at all remorseful about the full scale of her improper choices and actions with the OM - she may have decided the actual having sex was wrong, but she continued the foreplay that lead up to it, she continued to work and socialize with the OM, and she continued to have the OM socialize with her husband.

All of which her husband had flagged n the past a problem because his gut was warning him. But, she dismissed his concerns even though they were all true.


So even if she hasn't confessed, the marriage was still doomed due to her behavior and choices. So it isn't a case of it was a thing over and done and in the past. It was still very much an active cancer in the marriage.

The guy now has a chance,

As for the woman, she has a chance now too. A chance to realize and learn that it wasn't just the sex that was a problem, it was years of wrong choices by her where she put her marriage asside to flirt, tease, emotionally engage with the OM.

As Decorum pointed out, if you engage in behavior that leads to sex, you are gonna end up having sex.


----------



## bfree

mrtickle said:


> I know this has all moved on from page 1, and I know that this isn't the popular view on here - but whilst I think the OP not intervening was the right thing to do, I am not sure that a blanket encouragement to 'come clean' was a good idea. I'll probably be labelled a POS because of this, but to me its all down to the remorse shown, whether it was a one-off event that the WS was truly sorry about, how stable their marriage really is, personalities involved etc.
> 
> I know the WS 'coming clean' will unburden her, will clear those skeletons out of the closet and will allow the BS options in terms of whether to continue the relationship.
> 
> I just don't think I would automatically advise to come clean, unless I was pretty sure of the outcome.
> 
> Obv different if we are talking about an affair.
> 
> I dunno. Maybe I'm just immoral


Not immoral, just naive.


----------



## Dyokemm

When it comes to the debate over confessing or lying/hiding you actions, all that keeps popping into my head was the thing my dad always drilled into my head as I grew up.

Adults OWN THEIR S**T!

It was a lesson that was reinforced constantly while I was at the Naval Academy and serving as an officer in the Navy.

OWN YOUR S**T! BE ACCOUNTABLE!

I believe that being willing to accept this is a sign of true maturity in life.

It is a sign of immaturity and an unwillingness/inability to be responsible that makes a person want to hide from accountability.

And I, for one, would never want to be tied into a lifelong and serious commitment to a person who demonstrated that level of immaturity. It would be a nightmare IMO.


----------



## Shaggy

There will always be people who believe that it's acceptable, even smart to do a heinous horrible thing, and to hide it. To lie, to go underground, to not be held accountable for their actions.

They view it as being savy and smart, that only chumps or naive people are honest.

Perhaps that the exactly philosophy they used that enabled them to choose to commit the terrible action in the first place?

Either way, such choices are do not make for good partners in a marriage.


----------



## treyvion

Shaggy said:


> There will always be people who believe that it's acceptable, even smart to do a heinous horrible thing, and to hide it. To lie, to go underground, to not be held accountable for their actions.
> 
> They view it as being savy and smart, that only chumps or naive people are honest.
> 
> Perhaps that the exactly philosophy they used that enabled them to choose to commit the terrible action in the first place?
> 
> Either way, such choices are do not make for good partners in a marriage.


Of course. Key is to understand your territory. In some area this viewpoint is the majority.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

treyvion said:


> Of course. Key is to understand your territory. In some area this viewpoint is the majority.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't had my morning coffee yet so that might help but I'm not following, could you elaborate or give an example, I would appreciate it.
Thx

ETA, Oh maybe you are referring to Mrtickle's pov. Either way what do you mean by understand your territory?


----------



## hibiscus

This what my BBF said to me today:

They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.

She said she felt terribly guilty afterwards. So was he. They were both embarrassed by the situation and decided that he should move departments and not speak of it anymore. And to not socialise together as much etc. Guess once they had sex there was nothing else left.

There was no further meetings afterwards so it was clearly just a one off. 

I believe her! She wouldn't lie to me anymore. What for? The damage is done. Her H wants to divorce it. What will she gain by lieing to me further?

Anyway to update . Her H went to the OM's house this morning to talk to the OM's wife. She then called my BBF and had a massive confrontation over the phone with her. I guessed this was going to happen as they have socialised at each other's houses in the past.

The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> This what my BBF said to me today:
> 
> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.
> 
> She said she felt terribly guilty afterwards. So was he. They were both embarrassed by the situation and decided that he should move departments and not speak of it anymore. And to not socialise together as much etc. Guess once they had sex there was nothing else left.
> 
> There was no further meetings afterwards so it was clearly just a one off.
> 
> I believe her! She wouldn't lie to me anymore. What for? The damage is done. Her H wants to divorce it. What will she gain by lieing to me further?
> 
> Anyway to update . Her H went to the OM's house this morning to talk to the OM's wife. She then called my BBF and had a massive confrontation over the phone with her. I guessed this was going to happen as they have socialised at each other's houses in the past.
> *
> The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Yes he is a lying cheater..why wouldn't I believe that..and I still don't think it was just a one time thing...


----------



## hibiscus

MattMatt said:


> Oh, it might have been a ONS. Of a certain kind.
> 
> Flirts with OM for years. Lets him buy her drinks. They kiss and cuddle (maybe) it is such an adventure! Doing all this dirty, secret, exciting stuff and her poor, dumb husband doesn't know about it.
> 
> Eventually they take it to the ultimate conclusion, they have sex.
> 
> And this is when the gilt doesn't come off the ginger bread, this is when the gilt is pressure washed off with a high power hose.
> 
> Adventure and excitement is now replaced by guilt.
> 
> "Oh, s**t! The reason my husband was clueless was because he trusted me! Now what do I do?"
> 
> Hibiscus, did her friendship with OM change after the ONS? If so, in what way?


They would still meet up socially but wouldn't spend as much time together as they use to. But maybe to the H it looked even more obvious that they were avoiding each other.


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> This what my BBF said to me today:
> 
> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.
> 
> She said she felt terribly guilty afterwards. So was he. They were both embarrassed by the situation and decided that he should move departments and not speak of it anymore. And to not socialise together as much etc. Guess once they had sex there was nothing else left.
> 
> There was no further meetings afterwards so it was clearly just a one off.
> 
> I believe her! She wouldn't lie to me anymore. What for? The damage is done. Her H wants to divorce it. What will she gain by lieing to me further?
> 
> Anyway to update . Her H went to the OM's house this morning to talk to the OM's wife. She then called my BBF and had a massive confrontation over the phone with her. I guessed this was going to happen as they have socialised at each other's houses in the past.
> 
> The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?


Yes, he is a cheater and a liar, so why not continue on. 

I also believe that you are still not getting the full story. You ask why she would continue to lie to you, why did she feel the need to lie in the first place? Because she didn't want you to judge her. She judged you and your H for the last year (and negatively at that) and doesn't want the same from you. Would you be as accepting if you found out that she was engaging in the A for the last year? Several years? still involved when she spilled the beans to you? I say these things as my WW lied when I found out too. The damage was done as far as she was concerned and had no intention of telling me the whole truth. She said she was going to take it to her grave as it was none of my concern, that she had hurt me enough. SO now she is kind enough to think about me an my feelings. I think that the situation would have gone differently had you accepted her actions and supported her in her decisions, then she would have come fully clean. Since she knows that it hurts you and goes against what you believe I think she is "sparing" you anymore of the pain of her situation. Her "story" just is too convenient and full of holes and discrepancies. 

My $0.02 from the outside looking in.


----------



## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> hibiscus said:
> 
> 
> 
> This what my BBF said to me today:
> 
> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.
> 
> She said she felt terribly guilty afterwards. So was he. They were both embarrassed by the situation and decided that he should move departments and not speak of it anymore. And to not socialise together as much etc. Guess once they had sex there was nothing else left.
> 
> There was no further meetings afterwards so it was clearly just a one off.
> 
> I believe her! She wouldn't lie to me anymore. What for? The damage is done. Her H wants to divorce it. What will she gain by lieing to me further?
> 
> Anyway to update . Her H went to the OM's house this morning to talk to the OM's wife. She then called my BBF and had a massive confrontation over the phone with her. I guessed this was going to happen as they have socialised at each other's houses in the past.
> *
> The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Yes he is a lying cheater..why wouldn't I believe that..and I still don't think it was just a one time thing...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is. I really believe she did not have sex with him again.Look, my BBF done something awful and made some very bad choices. What possessed her to lose control like that I will never understand. But she has confessed and is taking responsibility now. She has to live with breaking up two marriages. Her jail sentence has started.
> 
> She needs help and not more stones thrown at her.
Click to expand...


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is. I really believe she did not have sex with him again.Look, my BBF done something awful and made some very bad choices. What possessed her to lose control like that I will never understand. But she has confessed and is taking responsibility now. She has to live with breaking up two marriages. Her jail sentence has started.
> 
> She needs help and not more stones thrown at her.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not throwing stones..I just find it hard to believe that after years of flirting it was a one time thing..given the amount of time they spent together....
Click to expand...


----------



## Shaggy

Here's a thought - is the OM still denying it because he's got more laundry that could come out? Perhaps with someone else?

Nixon get impeached for a burglary, he got impeached for a coverup of burglary.

The BFF still may turn this around once the emotions her husband is feeling run their course. If she can show unwavering honesty and loyalty to him , then her very possibly will a seek to R with her.

But he's got to walk in those BS shoes a while before he'll be there.

In fact the fury he is experiencing now may that along by burning it out of his system instead of bottling it up and letting it fester.


----------



## Jasel

Man this is one story where I just really feel bad for all parties involved including both WS (well maybe not the WH as much he sounds like kind of a d0uche). This just really goes to show not just the consequences of infidelity/cheating but what happens when people don't put appropriate boundries in place for themselves.

I used to be amazed how many cheaters at one point in their lives would demonize cheaters or boldly declare that they would never cheat and don't understand how anyone could. Only to wind up doing it themselves. I didn't get this myself at first but after coming to TAM I realize that most people aren't very self-reflective and willing to admit that we have no idea what we're really capable of and how we'll react when faced with certain situations. This is especially true when it comes to relationships. Denial, resentment, lack of communication, unwillingness to recognize problems, poor boundries, etc just seem so rampant in many of these stories.

It's like people cross little lines and then cross even more rationalizing each and every step until they're 5 miles from where they started and have no idea how they got there. And in many cases by then it's too late to change course and impossible to backtrack.

I can't blame the husband in this case for leaving, I'm not anti-reconciliation by any means but to me infidelity is one of the worst betrayals that you can commit against someone that you love or who at least loves you. I really think when a spouse is caught cheating initiating divorce/separation and exposure (with concrete evidence) should be the first step taken before all else. Doesn't mean the relationship/marriage has to end necessarily, but there are too many cheaters out there who basically go consequence free or get off lightly (as far as I'm concerned anyway) and it really sends a bad message. As much as I sympathize with the OP's friend for what she's going through, she's really getting what she deserves.


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is. I really believe she did not have sex with him again.Look, my BBF done something awful and made some very bad choices. What possessed her to lose control like that I will never understand. But she has confessed and is taking responsibility now. She has to live with breaking up two marriages. Her jail sentence has started.
> 
> She needs help and not more stones thrown at her.
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad that you have that sort of confidence in her to be truthful towards you. We are not putting her down and throwing stones, just saying that everything points to her minimizing things. IF she was flirting (so in an EA) with him for all those years as it sounds then why is she glossing this over like it was nothing. Too many signs of minimizing. She lied about their involvement for years, lied when confronted by her H, it only makes sense that it is more and she is continuing to lie. You say she made "some" very bad choices. IF she was doing this for years she made "lots" of precalculated choices and decisions, they weren't spur of the moment reactions as she would like you to believe.
Click to expand...


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Yes, he is a cheater and a liar, so why not continue on.
> 
> I also believe that you are still not getting the full story. You ask why she would continue to lie to you, why did she feel the need to lie in the first place? Because she didn't want you to judge her. She judged you and your H for the last year (and negatively at that) and doesn't want the same from you. Would you be as accepting if you found out that she was engaging in the A for the last year? Several years? still involved when she spilled the beans to you? I say these things as my WW lied when I found out too. The damage was done as far as she was concerned and had no intention of telling me the whole truth. She said she was going to take it to her grave as it was none of my concern, that she had hurt me enough. SO now she is kind enough to think about me an my feelings. I think that the situation would have gone differently had you accepted her actions and supported her in her decisions, then she would have come fully clean. Since she knows that it hurts you and goes against what you believe I think she is "sparing" you anymore of the pain of her situation. Her "story" just is too convenient and full of holes and discrepancies.
> 
> My $0.02 from the outside looking in.


To tell the truth I don't know if I want to know anymore. I have told her that she needs to be 100% honest if there is any hope of saving her marriage. But she needs to address that with her H.

I can only do so much in this situation. I need to be supportive but stay as objective as possible. I don't wish to be too involved as its now between them.


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> To tell the truth I don't know if I want to know anymore. I have told her that she needs to be 100% honest if there is any hope of saving her marriage. But she needs to address that with her H.
> 
> I can only do so much in this situation. I need to be supportive but stay as objective as possible. *I don't wish to be too involved as its now between them.*


Good plan..but do you see why we doubt her story? We are not throwing stones just to throw stones. At the very least she had a multi-year EA affair with this guy that turned into a PA. It would not surprise me if she is minimizing it to you and her H...


----------



## Aunt Ava

Hibiscus, has she given any indication why she felt the need to burden you with her betrayal? Especially when she knew what you have been through with your husband? Was it because you are forgiving your husband? So perhaps she thought you had a liberal attitude about infidelity? Or do you think maybe- just maybe she knew that you would encourage her to come clean? 

I can't imagine how difficult this situation is for you. How do you "support" someone that is guilty of doing the same thing that nearly destroyed your own marriage? As a friend, doesn't it give you pause to know she could deceive and gaslight her husband for an entire year? Doesn't this alter what you think of her as a person?


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> To tell the truth I don't know if I want to know anymore. I have told her that she needs to be 100% honest if there is any hope of saving her marriage. But she needs to address that with her H.
> 
> I can only do so much in this situation. I need to be supportive but stay as objective as possible. I don't wish to be too involved as its now between them.


 Just like with your H and your R, you know what is best for you and how much you really need to know. To each person it is different, and all that really matters is that in the end you are happy with the information you get and how much of it you are given/ require. You are the one that needs to live with your decisions just as everyone else does. I didn't mean to give the impressions that you need to get the whole and full truth, just was saying that I (and others here as well it seem) believe that you only know the tip of the iceberg. You need to stand to your convictions and need and decide based on those. Don't let I or anyone else sway you into something more than you are comfortable with. 

I wish the best of luck in your R and with this situation in your life.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

hibiscus said:


> I believe it is. I really believe she did not have sex with him again.Look, my BBF done something awful and made some very bad choices. What possessed her to lose control like that I will never understand. But she has confessed and is taking responsibility now. She has to live with breaking up two marriages. Her jail sentence has started.
> 
> She needs help and not more stones thrown at her.


Whether or not you (the perverbial you, not you specifically) believe it was a ONS or not. Your actions are that of a true friend.

Hibiscus, you've handled this incredibly well and I applaud you. You've even had to deal with external pains due to triggers and what not over this. Your friend may never know just HOW hard this was for you to help support her through because she's looking at her own little world crashing down. She may even blame you afterwards if she does ultimately lose her family, but don't let any other negativity affect you.

You've done everything well and you've had to carry some extra burdens due to nothing more than being someone's friend.


----------



## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> hibiscus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not throwing stones..I just find it hard to believe that after years of flirting it was a one time thing..given the amount of time they spent together....
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was just sex. Once that tension was released there was nothing else. They both didn't see the point in seeing each other further because they were both "happy" with their marriages.
> 
> I believe that.
> 
> You can fantasise over a person for many years but once the sex is done the fantasy is gone.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jasel

hibiscus said:


> Because it was just sex.


I'd still love to ask her if it was worth it.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Whether it was only physical once (doubt it) or not is moot. Her H disapproved of this dude, she disregarded him, had what could be considered a EA for an unknown period of time, had car sex, and then continued the EA just not with as much intensity for another year. IMHO this was no ONS it was a full on A. Her H as every right to be pissed especially since he saw this coming.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> hibiscus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad that you have that sort of confidence in her to be truthful towards you. We are not putting her down and throwing stones, just saying that everything points to her minimizing things. IF she was flirting (so in an EA) with him for all those years as it sounds then why is she glossing this over like it was nothing. Too many signs of minimizing. She lied about their involvement for years, lied when confronted by her H, it only makes sense that it is more and she is continuing to lie. You say she made "some" very bad choices. IF she was doing this for years she made "lots" of precalculated choices and decisions, they weren't spur of the moment reactions as she would like you to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> Sqeakr she never denied that they were not precalculated. She knew that she was in dangerous grounds when she was flirting. She knew what she was doing..she knew they could end up having sex. She should have stopped it but she liked it too much.
> 
> But she is paying the price for her selfish ways now. I want to slap her and hug her at the same time
Click to expand...


----------



## LostViking

You're a good friend Hibiscus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was just sex. Once that tension was released there was nothing else. They both didn't see the point in seeing each other further because they were both "happy" with their marriages.
> 
> I believe that.
> 
> You can fantasise over a person for many years but once the sex is done the fantasy is gone.
> 
> 
> 
> This thought can hold in some instances but doesn't apply in all. My wife said it was just sex in her A, and nothing fantastic (I don't know that I believe it, but that is her story). She kept going back because the POSOM was giving her emotional support and she wanted it to continue for that reason only (since your BFF had a multiyear EA this could be the same case). My WW's POSOM was giving her the support so he could get the sex. It was a vicious circle that just kept going around. Even though it was "just sex" (and that is exactly how my WW termed it also), she stayed as she got the special emotional bond, and your friend admits that she was getting the same. Now if it was just lusting over the body, I think it would have happened earlier. Once again, just my $0.02!
Click to expand...


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> Here's a thought - is the OM still denying it because he's got more laundry that could come out? Perhaps with someone else?
> 
> Nixon get impeached for a burglary, he got impeached for a coverup of burglary.
> 
> The BFF still may turn this around once the emotions her husband is feeling run their course. If she can show unwavering honesty and loyalty to him , then her very possibly will a seek to R with her.
> 
> But he's got to walk in those BS shoes a while before he'll be there.
> 
> In fact the fury he is experiencing now may that along by burning it out of his system instead of bottling it up and letting it fester.


Its ridiculous that the OM is still denying it but I am guessing its because he doesn't want his marriage to end. Easier to lie about it and confuse his wife then tell her that he cheated on her while she was pregnant.

I doubt very much that my BBF's H will R. Doubt it very much. I have never seen him behave this way. This is going to give him a permanent scar.


----------



## barbados

hibiscus said:


> To tell the truth I don't know if I want to know anymore. I have told her that she needs to be 100% honest if there is any hope of saving her marriage. But she needs to address that with her H.
> 
> I can only do so much in this situation. I need to be supportive but stay as objective as possible. I don't wish to be too involved as its now between them.


I think you have really gone above and beyond for her at this point, especially since you are still dealing with your own triggers that this situation causes you. You are really a good friend.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> To tell the truth I don't know if I want to know anymore. I have told her that she needs to be 100% honest if there is any hope of saving her marriage. But she needs to address that with her H.
> 
> I can only do so much in this situation. I need to be supportive but stay as objective as possible. I don't wish to be too involved as its now between them.


Exactly. Don't let this hurt you and what you are trying to accomplish. Be supportive but don't get pulled in. I'm more worried about you than your friend.


----------



## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> Good plan..but do you see why we doubt her story? We are not throwing stones just to throw stones. At the very least she had a multi-year EA affair with this guy that turned into a PA. It would not surprise me if she is minimizing it to you and her H...


I understand why you would doubt her too. Its a big leap of faith to believe someone again after they have lied to you


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Its ridiculous that the OM is still denying it but I am guessing its because he doesn't want his marriage to end. Easier to lie about it and confuse his wife then tell her that he cheated on her while she was pregnant.


 Yep, it makes no sense, but then again neither does cheating on your spouse and not just leaving. He sees that he has so much to lose and thinks that his W has been there the entire time and if she didn't believe anything was happening all of those years, then she will believe him now as well. He will paint the picture that your BFF is jealous as she has no children of her own and sees how happy he is now that he has a family. Don't bet he won't say nasty things about her, how she has pursued him for years and even talked of saying exactly this to get him to be hers and now that he world is crumbling she is trying to make him hers. Cheaters have a strange way of thinking that no one will every understand it seems. If his W is naive enough she just may even believe him.


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.


Has she owned that? Admitted that it was a mistake to even flirt?

Further, does she wish to convey that to her BH? Has she?



hibiscus said:


> The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?


Yep, standard fare. If he wants to save his marriage, he needs to now.


----------



## Jasel

How is your friend holding up???


----------



## hibiscus

Aunt Ava said:


> Hibiscus, has she given any indication why she felt the need to burden you with her betrayal? Especially when she knew what you have been through with your husband? Was it because you are forgiving your husband? So perhaps she thought you had a liberal attitude about infidelity? Or do you think maybe- just maybe she knew that you would encourage her to come clean?
> 
> I can't imagine how difficult this situation is for you. How do you "support" someone that is guilty of doing the same thing that nearly destroyed your own marriage? As a friend, doesn't it give you pause to know she could deceive and gaslight her husband for an entire year? Doesn't this alter what you think of her as a person?


No I don't think its because she thinks I have a liberal attitude towards infidelity. She knows my ups and downs with R. She knows how difficult it has been for me up to now. She also knows that I love my partner in a very different way. She knows what I think about cheaters, liars, deceivers, hypocrits. 

I think its because I kept harping on about how loyal and wonderful she is. She couldn't deceive herself as well as me anymore. Not many can hide such a big secret as this. She was going to tell someone eventually.

I definitely think very differently of her. I still love her very much but I currently don't like her as a person


----------



## hibiscus

Jasel said:


> I'd still love to ask her if it was worth it.


I asked her that question. She fell apart. "Ofcourse not. I wish I could turn the clock back. I wish I never did this."

Exactly the same response came from my partner.

So why do it in the first place:scratchhead:


----------



## hibiscus

larry.gray said:


> Has she owned that? Admitted that it was a mistake to even flirt?
> 
> Further, does she wish to convey that to her BH? Has she?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, standard fare. If he wants to save his marriage, he needs to now.


Yes she has admitted it to me but I don't know if she has said this to her H as yet


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> I definitely think very differently of her. I still love her very much but I currently don't like her as a person


I hope that can change. You've been able to forgive your FH, I would think you can eventually forgive her.


----------



## hibiscus

Jasel said:


> How is your friend holding up???


She is not at work today. She has taken some time off work. 

She is a mess! Cant stop crying.

All this for sex


----------



## LostViking

hibiscus said:


> I asked her that question. She fell apart. "Ofcourse not. I wish I could turn the clock back. I wish I never did this."
> 
> Exactly the same response came from my partner.
> 
> So why do it in the first place:scratchhead:


Lust. 

It's in the Bible. Study up on it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Ten minutes of sex to throw a ten year marriage down the toilet.


----------



## Chaparral

hibiscus said:


> She is not at work today. She has taken some time off work.
> 
> She is a mess! Cant stop crying.
> 
> All this for sex


Or like trying out a test drive for a new car and finding you don't actually like that model.


----------



## larry.gray

hibiscus said:


> Ten minutes of sex to throw a ten year marriage down the toilet.


The EA is damaging too. I wouldn't dismiss that because the BH already voiced worries about the flirting. I don't think you can separate them.


----------



## Jasel

larry.gray said:


> I hope that can change. You've been able to forgive your FH, I would think you can eventually forgive her.


I think it's a bit different. 

It sounds like OP's WS confessed immediately to what he had done. OP's friend has been lying, gas lighting her husband, from what I can tell minimizing an affair by trying to classify it as a ONS which at this point it obviously was not, and covered it up for a year.

I do agree that maybe she can forgive her eventually but I don't think hib's WH and her bff are really in the same boat as far as infidelity is concerned.


----------



## tacoma

hibiscus said:


> But why is it my responsibility to tell him? I don't want their drama as I have enough of my own to deal with. I feel really angry towards my best friend for telling me. I also feel she is a coward. Infact I have lost a little respect for her.


Stay out of it.


----------



## Squeakr

larry.gray said:


> I hope that can change. You've been able to forgive your FH, I would think you can eventually forgive her.


This wil all depend on how the BFF decides to change and start to act remorseful. The OP's H was remorseful and ashamed about the way he treated his wife, the BFF needs to come to the same vantage point in order to be forgiven as well (someone generally earns their forgiveness it is not something usually freely given). If she continues to be all gloom and doom and blaming of the OP for her perceived " exerted pressures" then it will take a long time. The BFF seems to have acknowledged her actions and wrongdoings but not really owned them as of yet.


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> All this for sex


 Do you really think this? It seems according to what you say that her H is pretty set in what he accepts and allows. 

Do you think that he would have reacted differently had he found out that she was having a multi-year EA? 

Do you think he would be less upset and more willing to R if it were only an EA?

Seems that she doesn't think an EA is anything to be worried about until it becomes PA (which is why I think there is more to the story, as she seems to think that by making it out to be a ONS it doesn't mean as much as a full blown A in her mind). BY continually making it only about the sex she is gas lighting the entire other portion of the A and the lying that she has been doing all along. I think it is more about the betrayal and constant lying than the sex, that was jus the cherry on the top of the sundae!


----------



## Whip Morgan

He isn't divorcing her over just 10 minutes of sex. It's in addition to the years of the emotional affair she had with this man while gaslighting her H about. She enjoyed what she did, hibiscus. Now she isnt enjoying the destruction she has caused
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

Squeakr said:


> Do you really think this? It seems according to what you say that her H is pretty set in what he accepts and allows.
> 
> Do you think that he would have reacted differently had he found out that she was having a multi-year EA?
> 
> Do you think he would be less upset and more willing to R if it were only an EA?
> 
> Seems that she doesn't think an EA is anything to be worried about until it becomes PA (which is why I think there is more to the story, as she seems to think that by making it out to be a ONS it doesn't mean as much as a full blown A in her mind). BY continually making it only about the sex she is gas lighting the entire other portion of the A and the lying that she has been doing all along. I think it is more about the betrayal and constant lying than the sex, that was jus the cherry on the top of the sundae!


I think it depends on the person but I do think gender has something to do with it as well. It also depends on what an individual considers "cheating". I'm not saying this is set in stone but women tend to have a bigger problem with emotional affairs than men do and men tend to have a bigger problem with physical affairs than women do. Which is one of the reasons I think you hear so much about "mind movies" from BS who are male than females.


----------



## LostViking

And the sad disgusting pitiful thing about this whole affair is the fact that after two years of flirting and seducing each other, thee two idiots culminated it by having awkward steamy sex in a car. Fvcking OM was too cheap to go rent a decent hotel room. How sordid can you get?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dad&Hubby

hibiscus said:


> Its ridiculous that the OM is still denying it but I am guessing its because he doesn't want his marriage to end. Easier to lie about it and confuse his wife then tell her that he cheated on her while she was pregnant.
> 
> I doubt very much that my BBF's H will R. Doubt it very much. I have never seen him behave this way. This is going to give him a permanent scar.


In regards to your BBF's H, don't take him distancing himself from you personally. He's going into preservation mode and he hates his WW right now. He's going to take anything you say as you trying to get him to stay with his WW because you're 1. her BBF and 2. you're also someone who sees R as an option.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

larry.gray said:


> The EA is damaging too. I wouldn't dismiss that because the BH already voiced worries about the flirting. I don't think you can separate them.


Exactly. To her H, he's not looking at as a one off "mistake" but he's looking at it from the point of that first uncomfortable flirtation up until Dday.


----------



## JCD

Whip Morgan said:


> He isn't divorcing her over just 10 minutes of sex. It's in addition to the years of the emotional affair she had with this man while gaslighting her H about. She enjoyed what she did, hibiscus. Now she isnt enjoying the destruction she has caused
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Um...that conclusion does not fit the facts and timeline in evidence.

She told him she had a ONS. She did NOT identify who the other party was.

Hubby rips off and cold c0cks the guy he likes the least. AS IT HAPPENS...that happened to be the guy she slept with. HOWEVER...he did not know until AFTER he hit the guy. Now you can talk about the 'magic gut' but IIRC, there was at least one thread where the BS said "oh...she was cheating but it was with a totally different guy than I thought"

When she stated she had an affair, he dumped her. Right then, right there. So unless he was already willing to dump her over the flirting (doesn't sound like it) he WAS willing to dump her just for the sex.

I could be wrong. Maybe his gray matter processed this in the blink of an eye. But as reported, he already told her he'd divorce her if she cheated without stipulations.


----------



## doubletrouble

How are YOU doing, OP?
This has triggered you, caused you a great deal of stress, added o your personal list of sorrows (through your BFF's stuff and your own), and taken up a lot of your time. 
A week ago you were done with her, now you have to go back to being the friend because she confessed. 
Thumbs up to you for being such a good friend. 
Just remember not to be her friend to the point where it costs you too much. It's been an emotionally expensive few weeks.


----------



## Dyokemm

I'm not surprised POSOM is still denying.

He's a chickens**t as I posted awhile ago.

An immature little a**hole who can't be an adult and own up to his crap.

That immaturity is probably why he felt OK flirting and messing around with another man's W in the first place.

Mature people know enough to show each other respect or they may get a beatdown or some other grave consequence.

Immature ones think they can run and hide from the consequences.

That's why my opinion is that a BS should never ignore or let an AP get away scot free while they concentrate on consequences only for their WS.

Both of the fools deserve to get slapped by reality.


----------



## MattMatt

JCD said:


> Um...that conclusion does not fit the facts and timeline in evidence.
> 
> She told him she had a ONS. She did NOT identify who the other party was.
> 
> Hubby rips off and cold c0cks the guy he likes the least. AS IT HAPPENS...that happened to be the guy she slept with. HOWEVER...he did not know until AFTER he hit the guy. Now you can talk about the 'magic gut' but IIRC, there was at least one thread where the BS said "oh...she was cheating but it was with a totally different guy than I thought"
> 
> When she stated she had an affair, he dumped her. Right then, right there. So unless he was already willing to dump her over the flirting (doesn't sound like it) he WAS willing to dump her just for the sex.
> 
> I could be wrong. Maybe his gray matter processed this in the blink of an eye. But as reported, he already told her he'd divorce her if she cheated without stipulations.


Unless her confession confirmed what someone else had already told him?


----------



## Whip Morgan

The poster referenced several pages ago that they had known about heir sexual chemistry for years and flirted. I won't believe that it was "harmless". Either way, that's possibly how the H sees it, that he was right all along and she still lied and gaslit him. A long period of inappropriate behavior culminating in a physical affair while lying to her suspecting H blew this marriage apart. 

However , she did confess to her friend, and eventually to her H. The betrayed spouse may come around to try R. Never say never, hibiscus. It's up to your friend now to see what she is willing to try to save this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

Whip Morgan said:


> The poster referenced several pages ago that they had known about heir sexual chemistry for years and flirted. I won't believe that it was "harmless". Either way, that's possibly how the H sees it, that he was right all along and she still lied and gaslit him. A long period of inappropriate behavior culminating in a physical affair while lying to her suspecting H blew this marriage apart.
> 
> However , she did confess to her friend, and eventually to her H. The betrayed spouse may come around to try R. Never say never, hibiscus. It's up to your friend now to see what she is willing to try to save this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would ventiure to guess that if someone could go back and dig up their e-mails and texts to one another prior to the ONS, they would find months of flirting, sexting and planning. It may not have been so much an "emotional affair" as it was a sexual one. 

I get the feeling that the BFF loved her husband as provider and emotional support, while the OM was purely a sex fantasy gone amok.


----------



## Squeakr

JCD said:


> Um...that conclusion does not fit the facts and timeline in evidence.
> 
> She told him she had a ONS. She did NOT identify who the other party was.
> 
> Hubby rips off and cold c0cks the guy he likes the least. AS IT HAPPENS...that happened to be the guy she slept with. HOWEVER...he did not know until AFTER he hit the guy. Now you can talk about the 'magic gut' but IIRC, there was at least one thread where the BS said "oh...she was cheating but it was with a totally different guy than I thought"
> 
> When she stated she had an affair, he dumped her. Right then, right there. So unless he was already willing to dump her over the flirting (doesn't sound like it) he WAS willing to dump her just for the sex.
> 
> I could be wrong. Maybe his gray matter processed this in the blink of an eye. But as reported, he already told her he'd divorce her if she cheated without stipulations.


You are wrong on several of your assessments of the situation. Hibiscus has admitted that she has found out that the BFF told her H about the affair. THe BFF's H then guessed whom the OM was (based on past suspicions) and the BFF confirmed it after the revealing of the affair. The BFF's H then smashed furniture, threw coffee on her and left. Later he went to BFF's work and confronted the man straight out and he flat denied the affair, it became heated and tense and that is when the H punched the OM. It was not perchance that this happened and BFF's H hit the OM, he knew all about the A and everything leading up to it, before going to BFF's work. The OP however was never told whom the OM was and only found out after the work incident occurred. The H knew before the OM for once when it came to this one fact.


----------



## Squeakr

Jasel said:


> I think it depends on the person but I do think gender has something to do with it as well. It also depends on what an individual considers "cheating". I'm not saying this is set in stone but women tend to have a bigger problem with emotional affairs than men do and men tend to have a bigger problem with physical affairs than women do. Which is one of the reasons I think you hear so much about "mind movies" from BS who are male than females.


This seems to be the prevailing thoughts about gender and their reactions to A's. I do agree that for the most part this is probably true, the one thing that is true across the board and holds for both genders is that _*neither can tolerate the incessant lying and betrayal that occurs in either A situation and this is usually the hardest thing to get over no matter the gender of the betrayed.*_.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD, 

OP did confirm that her BFF told her BH when she confessed that the ONS was with the guy he's suspected all along.

So when he smacked POSOM, he knew that he had the correct target for his rage. He wasn't just punching some random guy he didn't like.

And, I don't think it should be referred to as a ONS anymore. Rather it was the culmination of at least a couple years long EA. The incidence of PA may have only happened once, but the A was far longer.

This is why BH is so pissed. He knows he's been gaslighted by his WW.

Plus the little slimebag is still trying to run from the truth.


----------



## ConanHub

Hibiscus. You seem like a real class act and someone who is really worth keeping as a friend. Sorry your life has been impacted by infidelity in so many ways, but it is funny that someone with strength,(you), has been surrounded by many who are weak.(your wh, your xwh, and your wayward Bff). I hope those around you can learn from your refusal to treat something wonderful (marriage) like something left in the yard by a dog! I think you are very thoughtful and caring and I hope you never lose your faithful character but use all these opportunities to grow the impressive person you already are. I will be praying for your friend and I hope you and your stbh use this to further strengthen your R. Best wishes.


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> There will always be people who believe that it's acceptable, even smart to do a heinous horrible thing, and to hide it. To lie, to go underground, to not be held accountable for their actions.
> 
> They view it as being savy and smart, that only chumps or naive people are honest.
> 
> Perhaps that the exactly philosophy they used that enabled them to choose to commit the terrible action in the first place?
> 
> Either way, such choices are do not make for good partners in a marriage.





Truthseeker1 said:


> Yes he is a lying cheater..why wouldn't I believe that..and I still don't think it was just a one time thing...





Dyokemm said:


> I'm not surprised POSOM is still denying.
> 
> He's a chickens**t as I posted awhile ago.
> 
> An immature little a**hole who can't be an adult and own up to his crap.
> 
> That immaturity is probably why he felt OK flirting and messing around with another man's W in the first place.
> 
> Mature people know enough to show each other respect or they may get a beatdown or some other grave consequence.
> 
> Immature ones think they can run and hide from the consequences.
> 
> That's why my opinion is that a BS should never ignore or let an AP get away scot free while they concentrate on consequences only for their WS.
> 
> Both of the fools deserve to get slapped by reality.


Sigh. I believe 'reality' slapped him across the chops just yesterday. He should follow that fine example of maturity, I suppose. But we excuse 'mistakes' in the BS. No such regard is given a cheater.

I mean, yes, he should own up to his mistakes, ruin his career totally and ruin the life of his newborn and his wife as a consequence.

Yes he's a louse, but people are complex things and even louses can have slightly more noble motivations than










(Never trust a raccoon. They are slippery sneak thieves)


----------



## JCD

Dyokemm said:


> JCD,
> 
> OP did confirm that her BFF told her BH when she confessed that the ONS was with the guy he's suspected all along.
> 
> So when he smacked POSOM, he knew that he had the correct target for his rage. He wasn't just punching some random guy he didn't like.
> 
> And, I don't think it should be referred to as a ONS anymore. Rather it was the culmination of at least a couple years long EA. The incidence of PA may have only happened once, but the A was far longer.
> 
> This is why BH is so pissed. He knows he's been gaslighted by his WW.
> 
> Plus the little slimebag is still trying to run from the truth.


Read the timeline again.


----------



## MattMatt

So this is a typical example of Trickle truth. When hibiscus as the friend got her friend's version of Veracity Lite 2.0.

And what WS defines as a ONS is, in reality, an affair of many years standing, which the husband had called his wife on several times, but which she denied and denied and denied.

Another example of something that happens a lot, here. What seems like something simple like a ONS usually turns out to be more complex, more dirty and much more heartbreaking than is first thought.


----------



## theroad

tom67 said:


> Well there it is. Of course he won't believe it was a ons he saw how they acted when they were together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





bfree said:


> The husband suspected and confronted her. She lied to him and probably made him think he was crazy. Turns out he was right along along. I'm doubting that it was a ONS. I'm betting that it was an affair and was going on while the OM's wife was pregnant. It would have come out eventually. The fact that she gaslighted him and continued to work with her lover is not going to help things at all. Your friend is a idiot.


Dollars to doughnuts this was not a ONS. BH seeing the way the WW and the OM interacted only caused him to see red flag after red flag and the WW just kept gas lighting her BH.


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> This what my BBF said to me today:
> 
> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.



Nice of your friend to recite the definition of EA from the dictionary.


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> They would still meet up socially but wouldn't spend as much time together as they use to. But maybe to the H it looked even more obvious that they were avoiding each other.


Continuing the EA.


----------



## theroad

hibiscus said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is. I really believe she did not have sex with him again.Look, my BBF done something awful and made some very bad choices. What possessed her to lose control like that I will never understand. But she has confessed and is taking responsibility now. She has to live with breaking up two marriages. Her jail sentence has started.
> 
> She needs help and not more stones thrown at her.
> 
> 
> 
> Experience has shown that odds are she is trickle truthing. That is why the catapults are going full steam.
Click to expand...


----------



## theroad

Jasel said:


> I'd still love to ask her if it was worth it.


Why?

To gloat. Not worth asking.


----------



## theroad

Refuse to be played said:


> Whether it was only physical once (doubt it) or not is moot. Her H disapproved of this dude, she disregarded him, had what could be considered a EA for an unknown period of time, had car sex, and then continued the EA just not with as much intensity for another year. IMHO this was no ONS it was a full on A. Her H as every right to be pissed especially since he saw this coming.


More proof that the gut is always right.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

I did follow the timeline. OP posted after the workplace blowup that she had talked to BFF and her friend had confirmed that she told BH when she confessed that it was who he had always suspected.

Its right there in 'black and white'.

And, I know you disagree with destroying a POS scumbag like the OM.

That's your prerogative and right to feel that way.

Many of us will just never share that sentiment.

But I don't understand why you continue to use a snide tone and attitude with people who simply have different opinions and views than you.

And if someone was being rude with you (if they have in a post I missed because I do tend to skim these, I apologize) I would gladly tell them to stop putting you down because you disagree with us.

You and I may never agree on the best path to take on these issues, but at least we can be civil to each other.


----------



## theroad

Squeakr said:


> hibiscus said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thought can hold in some instances but doesn't apply in all. My wife said it was just sex in her A, and nothing fantastic (I don't know that I believe it, but that is her story). She kept going back because the POSOM was giving her emotional support and she wanted it to continue for that reason only (since your BFF had a multiyear EA this could be the same case). My WW's POSOM was giving her the support so he could get the sex. It was a vicious circle that just kept going around. Even though it was "just sex" (and that is exactly how my WW termed it also), she stayed as she got the special emotional bond, and your friend admits that she was getting the same. Now if it was just lusting over the body, I think it would have happened earlier. Once again, just my $0.02!
> 
> 
> 
> Many a WW give up sex for emotional needs being met.
> 
> Many a WH fills emotional needs to get sex.
Click to expand...


----------



## workindad

hibiscus said:


> Its ridiculous that the OM is still denying it but I am guessing its because he doesn't want his marriage to end. Easier to lie about it and confuse his wife then tell her that he cheated on her while she was pregnant.
> 
> I doubt very much that my BBF's H will R. Doubt it very much. I have never seen him behave this way. This is going to give him a permanent scar.


I would guess that anyone, even those who do R, have a permanent scar from betrayal, trickle truthing and lies that come from an affair.

I think you have handled this as well as a person can in your shoes. I am glad that OM's wife was told the truth. Only she can decide what to do with that information.


----------



## Dyokemm

"To cut a long story short she told her H indirectly that the OM was who he suspected. Anyway he turned up at her workplace demanding to speak to him. The OM was denying everything. My BBF was called to the reception where they both were and the H went into a rage and hit the OM in the face.The police were called and he was cautioned at the station."

JCD,

btw this was in post #402.

I think its clear bff told OP that she indicated to BH that it was who he had suspected, THEN BH went to the workplace to confront.


----------



## warlock07

Calling it 10 mins of sex is insulting the BS


----------



## tom67

I'm glad stbxh exposed to dOuches wife. Now she can make an informed decision.


----------



## WyshIknew

Dyokemm said:


> Mr.Tickle,
> 
> I definitely won't slam or attack you for your opinion, but I do disagree with you 100%.
> 
> Lying and deception are NEVER a good option in my opinion and experience.
> 
> Hiding life altering info from a BS to prevent them from potentially making a choice/decision that the WS does not want is not only cowardly, but is also shamefully manipulative, not to mention the complete immorality (IMO) of trying to assume control over the life decisions of another human being.
> 
> I respect your right to disagree, and I would argue to defend you from anyone else's attacks or put downs.
> 
> But I cannot accept you argument as being the correct path to follow.


Not only that but she would still be expecting her husband to socialise with the OM, still be flirting with him, still be expecting her hubby to shake hands with the OM and call him "buddy" all the while knowing the OM is smirking and laughing at her hubby while thinking "I effed your wife dude, she called out *MY* name when she came, you loser."


----------



## hibiscus

And the chaos continues....

The OM's wife has been bombarding my BBF with calls.The wife is absolutely distraught. The wife doesn't know who to believe.

The OM is still denying everything! He is feeding his wife lies!
He is saying that my BBF has been trying it on him for years and is bitter because he hasn't been paying her any attention. He was just promoted and claims that my BBF is jealous and is trying to get him sacked! What a load of crock!

My BBF has tried to call him but he is not picking up. He sent just the one text so far in capital letters.

DO NOT CONTACT ME.DO NOT SPEAK TO ME. IF YOUR HUSBAND COMES TO OUR PROPERTY WE WILL CHARGE YOU BOTH FOR HARASSMENT.THIS IS A FINAL WARNING

In the meantime my BBF and H are texting each other but its not good. He is talking about splitting the assets and living apart. He wants to separate and move into a smaller apartment. There is no more adoption.

So awful to witness. Awful

I had a terrible trigger last night. Just broke down in tears. I suddenly lost all trust in my partner and became afraid that he would hurt me again. But he dealt with it well. He reassured me that he learnt his lesson for life and is permanently scarred from what he did to me. His eyes welled up. I guess its still early days for us


----------



## hibiscus

Jasel said:


> I think it's a bit different.
> 
> It sounds like OP's WS confessed immediately to what he had done. OP's friend has been lying, gas lighting her husband, from what I can tell minimizing an affair by trying to classify it as a ONS which at this point it obviously was not, and covered it up for a year.
> 
> I do agree that maybe she can forgive her eventually but I don't think hib's WH and her bff are really in the same boat as far as infidelity is concerned.


This is very true. My partner confessed as soon as he had sex with his ex. It was written all over his face anyway. He couldn't look at me. That was his saving grace.


----------



## hibiscus

How do I advise my BBF in this chaos? I have told her that I am available to talk no matter what time of day it is. I also suggested that she speaks to a councillor.

She hasn't told her family yet....

She is still talking about killing herself. This really worries me! Should I take this seriously?!


----------



## Whip Morgan

Advise your friend to pull her head out of her ass and stop communicating with her OM! No attempts!
If your friend has evidence of emails or texts, have her print them out and give them to the wife. No need to deal with the OM. Its a problem that she is still even trying to talk to this guy.

The most important thing you can do now is for yourself. You need to step back from this. If she is talking suicide, get other people involved. TELL HER FAMILY. They can help and should be informed of these suicidal talks. Dont consider this nonsense that she doesnt want them to know.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Yep, it makes no sense, but then again neither does cheating on your spouse and not just leaving. He sees that he has so much to lose and thinks that his W has been there the entire time and if she didn't believe anything was happening all of those years, then she will believe him now as well. He will paint the picture that your BFF is jealous as she has no children of her own and sees how happy he is now that he has a family. Don't bet he won't say nasty things about her, how she has pursued him for years and even talked of saying exactly this to get him to be hers and now that he world is crumbling she is trying to make him hers. Cheaters have a strange way of thinking that no one will every understand it seems. If his W is naive enough she just may even believe him.


Funny you should post this. The OM is saying a different thing to his wife but equally as pathetic. But even if the wife believed him she will always have this little doubt in her head.That seed has been sown now


----------



## Decorum

hibiscus said:


> I had a terrible trigger last night. Just broke down in tears. I suddenly lost all trust in my partner and became afraid that he would hurt me again. But he dealt with it well. He reassured me that he learnt his lesson for life and is permanently scarred from what he did to me. His eyes welled up. I guess its still early days for us


Hibiscus,
Your formerly wayward husband has seen the hurt he has caused you, he knows how close he came to losing you.

Its a harsh lesion to him as well, every time he sees the pain in your eyes he knows he put it there and he is helpless to take it away.

You are loved!

Take care!


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> Advise your friend to pull her head out of her ass and stop communicating with her OM! No attempts!
> If your friend has evidence of emails or texts, have her print them out and give them to the wife. No need to deal with the OM. Its a problem that she is still even trying to talk to this guy.
> 
> The most important thing you can do now is for yourself. You need to step back from this. If she is talking suicide, get other people involved. TELL HER FAMILY. They can help and should be informed of these suicidal talks. Dont consider this nonsense that she doesnt want them to know.


Groan..She doesn't want her family to know. And yet again I am faced with do I tell or not


----------



## hibiscus

Decorum said:


> Hibiscus,
> Your formerly wayward husband has seen the hurt he has caused you, he knows how close he came to losing you.
> 
> Its a harsh lesion to him as well, every time he sees the pain in your eyes he knows he put it there and he is helpless to take it away.
> 
> You are loved!
> 
> Take care!


Thank you


----------



## Whip Morgan

hibiscus said:


> Groan..She doesn't want her family to know. And yet again I am faced with do I tell or not


Then whats the plan moving forward? Are you going to continue to subject yourself to her suicidal talk and not seek out anyone to help her? And you? All the while you subject yourself to a situation that is causing you problems in your relationship?

Your friend wants to keep this a secret. She is still trying to call her OM. She is still more concerned with herself than she is about the damage she has done to the man she made vows to. Do you really believe you need to keep exposing yourself to her right now?


----------



## BK23

I think it's time to start distancing yourself. This situation is not fair to you, and is obviously hindering your own recovery. It's tragic and disappointing, but I think you need some space from this friend. 

If she persists with the suicidal talk, you need to call the police.


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> Then whats the plan moving forward? Are you going to continue to subject yourself to her suicidal talk and not seek out anyone to help her? And you? All the while you subject yourself to a situation that is causing you problems in your relationship?
> 
> Your friend wants to keep this a secret. She is still trying to call her OM. She is still more concerned with herself than she is about the damage she has done to the man she made vows to. Do you really believe you need to keep exposing yourself to her right now?


I think I will call the samaritans


----------



## tom67

Whip Morgan said:


> Then whats the plan moving forward? Are you going to continue to subject yourself to her suicidal talk and not seek out anyone to help her? And you? All the while you subject yourself to a situation that is causing you problems in your relationship?
> 
> Your friend wants to keep this a secret. She is still trying to call her OM. She is still more concerned with herself than she is about the damage she has done to the man she made vows to. Do you really believe you need to keep exposing yourself to her right now?


:iagree: Take care of you now.


----------



## hibiscus

tom67 said:


> :iagree: Take care of you now.


Yes I think I need a break. I am on holiday ( vacation) from Saturday for about ten days so I will have less contact with the BBF.

I just need to sort out her crazy suicidal talk before.


----------



## Shaggy

As I said before its time for BBF to choose sides and to support without hesitation the one she chooses.

I think she should answer and talk to the OMW and she should confirm what her BS has told the OMW. 

That would be BBF supporting her husband.

As for her family etc, you don't get involved there. That really is outside of your business.


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> As I said before its time for BBF to choose sides and to support without hesitation the one she chooses.
> 
> I think she should answer and talk to the OMW and she should confirm what her BS has told the OMW.
> 
> That would be BBF supporting her husband.
> 
> As for her family etc, you don't get involved there. That really is outside of your business.


Yes she has confirmed it. The OMW is still very confused tho.


----------



## Shaggy

Oh, and explain to BBF that her BS will see ever call text or contact with the OM as her choosing the OM and her turning to him as her source of help and support.

This is again, her needing to pick her BS and be loyal to him.


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> Yes she has confirmed it. The OMW is still very confused tho.


She should talk with her, up to the point of the OMW being verbally abusive. When that happens she sound apologize for what she did and then hang up.


----------



## Jasel

hibiscus said:


> My BBF has tried to call him but he is not picking up. He sent just the one text so far in capital letters.
> 
> DO NOT CONTACT ME.DO NOT SPEAK TO ME. IF YOUR HUSBAND COMES TO OUR PROPERTY WE WILL CHARGE YOU BOTH FOR HARASSMENT.THIS IS A FINAL WARNING


Why is she even trying to talk to HIM??? Especially since it sounds like he tried to throw her under the bus to save his own ass anyway. Hard to believe she threw her marriage away over a guy like that and a quickie :scratchhead: But with all the stories here I guess I shouldn't be too surprised in this case.



> I had a terrible trigger last night. Just broke down in tears. I suddenly lost all trust in my partner and became afraid that he would hurt me again. But he dealt with it well. He reassured me that he learnt his lesson for life and is permanently scarred from what he did to me. His eyes welled up. I guess its still early days for us


Sorry to hear that. I can't imagine how rough this must be for you with what you're going through. I think there's a difference between supporting a friend and letting them drag you down with them, especially when it's due to their own bad decisions.

I'm not saying cut her off or stop talking to her, especially since it sounds like she's in a very bad place. I also wouldn't take the threat of suicide lightly either. But maybe find a healthy balance of support. You said something about samaritans which I'm assuming is a uk thing??? It might be a good idea to encourage her to tell her family because they're most likely going to find out eventually, and right now you're the only one supporting her and that she can rely on. And that's a pretty heavy burden considering you're still dealing with the same issue in your own marriage.

Man it is crazy hearing how someone flushed their life down the toilet by doing something stupid like that.



Even though I don't know your bff I guess one bright side to all of this is I doubt she'll ever cheat again.


----------



## JCD

Dyokemon,

No...I am not for 'protecting' the POS OM. I am UNDERSTANDING the conflicts HE has.

On the one page of the TAM script, cheaters are selfish, lying evil bastiches. They don't 'really' love their spouses.

BUT...they are also compartmentalizing creatures, able to juggle two relationships without the 'reality' of what they are doing smearing over into the primary relationship.

So...which is it?

Because the way I am reading it, this guy played around with fire for a while (I would like someone to give me a surefire way to detect the difference between a friendship to an attractive person and an EA. I actually have one which works for me, but I'd like to hear other definitions)

I had never HEARD of an EA before my wife laid it on me. That is the case for many people who engaged in them unwittingly.

But regardless...this man had his wife and child and in a moments passion, he committed a number of acts which lead to things going squishy and wet.

And afterwards...he distanced himself as much as possible from her without being suspicious. I know...ANY contact is grounds for suspicion...if one specifically wishes to be uncharitable. 

They screwed around with their JOBS. In Europe. Just to avoid each other. That is sort of big. Jobs are not so easy to get in this economy. This, of course, cuts no ice here.

So now Mr. Compartmentalization is stuck. Is he full of character and jobless or is he loyal to his wife and child and tries to protect them by catching a bullet?

Silly me...it is always and only about protecting himself...never anyone else.

I think he has both motives in mind. So this is not to forgive...this is to understand WHY he is lying beyond evil selfishness.

This is defined as 'not wanting to destroy another OM ever.' Anyone who has read any of my posts on other threads knows I DO advise BS to attack on destroy the OM frequently. Carlton had a huge thread about that which he deleted.

THIS case seems a bit grayer. I don't blame the wife for going after him. I don't blame the husband for going after him. But I also understand why this guy is lying his ass off.


Speaking of passion...we have had discussions that a ONS is not a 'simple mistake'. It is a long series of choices made which result in someone deliberately harming another human being. Am I correct in this? So a person who does this should manfully bear the full brunt of the consequences of his actions, yes?

So this man gets into the car, he programs his GPS and goes to the place of assignation...he deliberately seeks out his target, he enters, engages in a bit of banter...and he hauls off and punches the daylights out of another man!

Oh...you thought I was talking about a cheater? Is anyone sympathetic to the husband? He let a 'moment of passion' (i.e. many related and avoidable actions) override his good judgment. Well...why doesn't that same definition apply to the OM, at least a little?

How fairly are we applying these principles again?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

This is bad, but it would have been so much worse had they already adopted and had had a few more years go by before her husband found this out(and more than likely from someone other than your BBF).


----------



## JCD

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This is bad, but it would have been so much worse had they already adopted and had had a few more years go by before her husband found this out(and more than likely from someone other than your BBF).


Probably true.


----------



## Fisherman

JCD said:


> Dyokemon,
> 
> I would like someone to give me a surefire way to detect the difference between a friendship to an attractive person and an EA.


That is a very confusing question to me also. I sure don't know the answer. I would like to hear yours. PM me if you want.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Dyokemon,
> 
> No...I am not for 'protecting' the POS OM. I am UNDERSTANDING the conflicts HE has.
> 
> *On the one page of the TAM script, cheaters are selfish, lying evil bastiches. They don't 'really' love their spouses.*
> *Actually it occurs to me that the only one I ever hear this from is you. Funny that.*
> 
> 
> BUT...they are also compartmentalizing creatures, able to juggle two relationships without the 'reality' of what they are doing smearing over into the primary relationship.
> 
> So...which is it?
> 
> Because the way I am reading it, this guy played around with fire for a while (I would like someone to give me a surefire way to detect the difference between a friendship to an attractive person and an EA. I actually have one which works for me, but I'd like to hear other definitions)
> 
> I had never HEARD of an EA before my wife laid it on me. That is the case for many people who engaged in them unwittingly.
> 
> But regardless...this man had his wife and child and in a moments passion, he committed a number of acts which lead to things going squishy and wet.
> 
> And afterwards...he distanced himself as much as possible from her without being suspicious. I know...ANY contact is grounds for suspicion...if one specifically wishes to be uncharitable.
> 
> They screwed around with their JOBS. In Europe. Just to avoid each other. That is sort of big. Jobs are not so easy to get in this economy. This, of course, cuts no ice here.
> 
> So now Mr. Compartmentalization is stuck. Is he full of character and jobless or is he loyal to his wife and child and tries to protect them by catching a bullet?
> 
> Silly me...it is always and only about protecting himself...never anyone else.
> 
> I think he has both motives in mind. So this is not to forgive...this is to understand WHY he is lying beyond evil selfishness.
> 
> This is defined as 'not wanting to destroy another OM ever.' Anyone who has read any of my posts on other threads knows I DO advise BS to attack on destroy the OM frequently. Carlton had a huge thread about that which he deleted.
> 
> THIS case seems a bit grayer. I don't blame the wife for going after him. I don't blame the husband for going after him. But I also understand why this guy is lying his ass off.
> 
> 
> Speaking of passion...we have had discussions that a ONS is not a 'simple mistake'. It is a long series of choices made which result in someone deliberately harming another human being. Am I correct in this? So a person who does this should manfully bear the full brunt of the consequences of his actions, yes?
> 
> So this man gets into the car, he programs his GPS and goes to the place of assignation...he deliberately seeks out his target, he enters, engages in a bit of banter...and he hauls off and punches the daylights out of another man!
> 
> Oh...you thought I was talking about a cheater? Is anyone sympathetic to the husband? He let a 'moment of passion' (i.e. many related and avoidable actions) override his good judgment. Well...why doesn't that same definition apply to the OM, at least a little?
> 
> How fairly are we applying these principles again?


*I think the word you're looking for is honor. Something that is sorely lacking in today's society.*


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

No. I do not see cheaters as fundamentally evil and calculating people. They are not sociopaths (well at least most of them...lol).

But I do view them as basically immature people who still carry around enough of the 'teenage' self-centered mindset to allow them to destroy their partners and f with other people's lives.

Also part of that basic immaturity, IMO, is a general unwillingness to face up to the consequences of what they have done when it blows up in their faces.

Now there are undoubtedly exceptions...a person who is mature and stable overall but has a momentary lapse of judgment. I think they are rare cases, but I do think they exist.

However, I do not think this is such a case. Whatever these two selfish individuals were up to for several years was obviously bad enough to raise the BH's suspicions to the point of confronting his WW about it. 

She denied, but then instead of having a moment of self-reflection, which mature adult's would do when told they had done someone an injury, these two immature people jump right back into the same behavior.

We know this because OP mentioned that BH had SEVERAL times questioned his WW, and received denial and gaslighting each time.

So, when you combine these facts with the lying and deception BOTH of these AP's carried on with BOTH of the BS's while they continued to socialize as if nothing happened, yes I think they were self-centered and completely immature people.

OP finally knocked enough sense into her BFF to start acting like an adult, confess and own her s**t, and give her the BH the info he deserved to make vital choices about the direction his life needs to go in.

Kudos to her, though I know it has led to much pain and sadness to her, it was the right and mature thing to do.

But POSOM?

Not him. He continues to be an immature little a** who refuses to acknowledge any of the wrongs he has done anyone.

And no JCD, I have no problem with physical violence in any situation where a person has committed a serious injury or wrong to you.

I could care less if BH had knocked this POS's teeth out.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

And I have never in any post said a WS could never have really loved their BS. Ever.

I have always said they are basically selfish and lack the maturity and guts to own their s**t, but have never posted or insinuated that they are sociopaths without any redeeming qualities and incapable of love.


----------



## Squeakr

One thing that has been recently mentioned that could be a big clue as to what was "really" happening here is that the OM recently got promoted. 

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they were going strong until he got promoted and then he put a stop to it so that some sort of manager/ higher level employee and lower employee impropriates were not suspected. AT that time she became distraught and started to feel bad about what she did, hence the reason that she started to feel the need to tell people. She was stuck facing what she had done and couldn't face it alone so she turned to her BFF (hibiscus) for support.


----------



## Shaggy

The way to have a healthy marriage isn't to create a test where you define the difference between having a close friendship with a potential romantic partner and having a romantic relationship with that same person.

The way to have a healthy marriage where cheating isn't an issue is to have as a boundary choosing NOT to have that attractive potential partner as a close friend.

In other words choose to take yourself off the market completely, and do not continue to pursue emotional relationships with potential partners.

For instance, I've worked with many women professionally, but I always keep it at a professional level. I choose not to grow relationships there into social relationships with them.

Do I have women who are friends? Sure, but after I was married the friendship with them was my wife and I being friends with them. I don't flirt,I don't talk privately with then, I don't privately text, etc. 

What I read being asked here by some is a guide on how far a person can continue to act single, and continue to engage others that would be potential partners via flirting, emotional engagement, etc. before the line crossed.

My answer is don't argue about is touching the line the same as crossing it - instead choose not to put yourself near the line.


----------



## bfree

My definition of a close friendship vs. an emotional affair. If what the two of you discussed would make you uncomfortable if your spouse was listening.


----------



## Squeakr

bfree said:


> My definition of a close friendship vs. an emotional affair. If what the two of you discussed would make you uncomfortable if your spouse was listening.


I would say this combined as well with when you rely on that friend for the things you should be getting and relying on only from your spouse. Such as if you are needing to discuss issues about another friend or your parents and you rely on this other person for the support that you should be getting from your spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

3Xnocharm said:


> I didnt read the pages of responses here, but I would say NO, you do NOT tell her husband. If this woman is truly your best friend, you should not betray her that way. I understand your disapproval, but you should stay loyal to your friend.


You might want to go back and read the pages as you will find that the BFF has shown no loyalty to the OP and even belittled her and her WH during their ordeal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

JCD said:


> Dyokemon,
> 
> No...I am not for 'protecting' the POS OM. I am UNDERSTANDING the conflicts HE has.
> 
> On the one page of the TAM script, cheaters are selfish, lying evil bastiches. They don't 'really' love their spouses.
> 
> BUT...they are also compartmentalizing creatures, able to juggle two relationships without the 'reality' of what they are doing smearing over into the primary relationship.
> 
> So...which is it?
> 
> Because the way I am reading it, this guy played around with fire for a while (I would like someone to give me a surefire way to detect the difference between a friendship to an attractive person and an EA. I actually have one which works for me, but I'd like to hear other definitions)
> 
> I had never HEARD of an EA before my wife laid it on me. That is the case for many people who engaged in them unwittingly.
> 
> But regardless...this man had his wife and child and in a moments passion, he committed a number of acts which lead to things going squishy and wet.
> 
> And afterwards...he distanced himself as much as possible from her without being suspicious. I know...ANY contact is grounds for suspicion...if one specifically wishes to be uncharitable.
> 
> They screwed around with their JOBS. In Europe. Just to avoid each other. That is sort of big. Jobs are not so easy to get in this economy. This, of course, cuts no ice here.
> 
> So now Mr. Compartmentalization is stuck. Is he full of character and jobless or is he loyal to his wife and child and tries to protect them by catching a bullet?
> 
> Silly me...it is always and only about protecting himself...never anyone else.
> 
> I think he has both motives in mind. So this is not to forgive...this is to understand WHY he is lying beyond evil selfishness.
> 
> This is defined as 'not wanting to destroy another OM ever.' Anyone who has read any of my posts on other threads knows I DO advise BS to attack on destroy the OM frequently. Carlton had a huge thread about that which he deleted.
> 
> THIS case seems a bit grayer. I don't blame the wife for going after him. I don't blame the husband for going after him. But I also understand why this guy is lying his ass off.
> 
> 
> Speaking of passion...we have had discussions that a ONS is not a 'simple mistake'. It is a long series of choices made which result in someone deliberately harming another human being. Am I correct in this? So a person who does this should manfully bear the full brunt of the consequences of his actions, yes?
> 
> So this man gets into the car, he programs his GPS and goes to the place of assignation...he deliberately seeks out his target, he enters, engages in a bit of banter...and he hauls off and punches the daylights out of another man!
> 
> Oh...you thought I was talking about a cheater? Is anyone sympathetic to the husband? He let a 'moment of passion' (i.e. many related and avoidable actions) override his good judgment. Well...why doesn't that same definition apply to the OM, at least a little?
> 
> How fairly are we applying these principles again?


For me, in simplistic terms, an EA is something secret. Something you know full well your partner would not approve of due largely to the content and context of the communication.

A friendship is something that is open, transparent and, well, _friendly_

This is obviously simplistic but I think it is a good starting point.


In this instance I personally think there is a world of difference between reacting to the (trauma?), in a relatively short time period, of finding out about his betrayal. A reaction of grief and anger over a situation he had no control over.
I don't think you can compare this to a pre meditated long term EA/PA where even if there was alcohol involved both parties had choice and control over what happened.

And we do not know that the BH went down to specifically assault the OM, he may have only lashed out when the smug bastard tried to deny and worm his way out of the consequences.


----------



## The Middleman

hibiscus said:


> Groan..She doesn't want her family to know. And yet again I am faced with do I tell or not


This needs to be exposed, but it's not your place to do it, it's her BH's role to make sure that everyone they know is aware of what she has done. 

If you ask me, it's time you back away from your BFF.


----------



## The Middleman

bfree said:


> My definition of a close friendship vs. an emotional affair. If what the two of you discussed would make you uncomfortable if your spouse was listening.


I have a simple rule too. If I'm a male (and I was the last time I checked) and my close friend is a female, then it's an EA. I have many female acquaintances and business associates; I don't talk to them about anything other than business or inconsequential matters.


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> I think I will call the samaritans


She needs to be seen by a mental health professional. If she seems serious, take no chances, dial 999 and report someone who is threatening self harm.


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> As I said before its time for BBF to choose sides and to support without hesitation the one she chooses.
> 
> I think she should answer and talk to the OMW and she should confirm what her BS has told the OMW.
> 
> That would be BBF supporting her husband.
> 
> .


So...how is the man lying to protect his family any different than 'choosing his family over loyalty to the other woman'?

Telling the truth will allow more healing, but if he does, he will probably be fired...and he has a newborn. Practicalities are sort of trumping principles right now.

I think what he is doing is unsustainable and will cause him more trouble down the road. But I understand his motivations.


----------



## JCD

Dyokemm said:


> JCD,
> 
> And I have never in any post said a WS could never have really loved their BS. Ever.
> 
> I have always said they are basically selfish and lack the maturity and guts to own their s**t, but have never posted or insinuated that they are sociopaths without any redeeming qualities and incapable of love.


You are not the only poster here...


----------



## Squeakr

So lying and betrayal are fine and acceptable when the ends and needs justifies it????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

WyshIknew said:


> For me, in simplistic terms, an EA is something secret. Something you know full well your partner would not approve of due largely to the content and context of the communication.
> 
> A friendship is something that is open, transparent and, well, _friendly_
> 
> This is obviously simplistic but I think it is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> In this instance I personally think there is a world of difference between reacting to the (trauma?), in a relatively short time period, of finding out about his betrayal. A reaction of grief and anger over a situation he had no control over.
> I don't think you can compare this to a pre meditated long term EA/PA where even if there was alcohol involved both parties had choice and control over what happened.
> 
> And we do not know that the BH went down to specifically assault the OM, he may have only lashed out when the smug bastard tried to deny and worm his way out of the consequences.


Mmm...this definition doesn't work for me. I know I was in an EA but we seldom discussed sex except in a 'this happened to me/did you ever try'. And it was never particularly secret. But thank you anyway. I think you have a piece of it, but not the whole enchilada.

As for the BH... you are giving him a huge amount of the benefit of the doubt which you aren't applying to the WH. There is nothing (0) to indicate that his primary purpose wasn't to go down and smash that man's face in. But honestly, it does not matter. According to the definition we apply to waywards, even if a person wasn't INTENDING to meet with person A to have sex...if they just got together to 'improperly push their boundaries', they are fully responsible for putting themselves into the situation where sex actually occurred.

Why aren't we applying that same standard to the BH?

Very simple: most of the people here have been that husband. They WANT to cut him slack.

Or in a single word: charity. Something else also lacking in certain segments of society. 

If it's good for waywards, this guy should allow the full force of the law beat on him without any regard for a soft landing. His job and family should take the full force of the consequences of his actions. 

So...divorced, fired, perhaps jailed...oops, sorry. The police let him off with a slap on the wrist. An act of charity which most people here (myself included) actually applaud.

He made a mistake. He regretted it. Someone had grace enough to give him a soft landing. 

Frankly he got what he is not willing to give...at least right now.


----------



## JCD

Squeakr said:


> So lying and betrayal are fine and acceptable when the ends and needs justifies it????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that principles are much easier to talk about when they are hypotheticals to discuss on the internet and not flesh and blood situations you face RIGHT NOW.

If your baby was starving, would you steal? The circumstances are somewhat different, but the PRINCIPLE is the same. Is a wrong okay because the ends justify it? All wrongs? Every time?

And no, let me reiterate quite clearly: this is NOT okay...but I understand it and I don't resent that he is trying for a soft landing.

Edited to add: the starving baby is a bit over the top.

Let's pick a slightly more difficult one. If the OP stated what she originally said, but added "and her husband has a huge temper issue under stress. He was up on charges before for assault. But he has never hit her" would your advice to her about revelation be the exact same? What is she said 'her husband has a dodgy past and he hangs around the criminal element'?

Would you modify 'the truth' out of little practicalities like being able to foresee that someone might get hurt badly if she reveals?


----------



## JCD

Squeakr said:


> You might want to go back and read the pages as you will find that the BFF has shown no loyalty to the OP and even belittled her and her WH during their ordeal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please cite where.


----------



## MattMatt

Squeakr said:


> One thing that has been recently mentioned that could be a big clue as to what was "really" happening here is that the OM recently got promoted.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they were going strong until he got promoted and then he put a stop to it so that some sort of manager/ higher level employee and lower employee impropriates were not suspected. AT that time she became distraught and started to feel bad about what she did, hence the reason that she started to feel the need to tell people. She was stuck facing what she had done and couldn't face it alone so she turned to her BFF (hibiscus) for support.


Possibly. But in the UK in some firms workplace affairs are either ignored or people get slapped on the back.


----------



## WyshIknew

JCD said:


> Mmm...this definition doesn't work for me. I know I was in an EA but we seldom discussed sex except in a 'this happened to me/did you ever try'. And it was never particularly secret. But thank you anyway. I think you have a piece of it, but not the whole enchilada.
> 
> As for the BH... you are giving him a huge amount of the benefit of the doubt which you aren't applying to the WH. There is nothing (0) to indicate that his primary purpose wasn't to go down and smash that man's face in. But honestly, it does not matter. According to the definition we apply to waywards, even if a person wasn't INTENDING to meet with person A to have sex...if they just got together to 'improperly push their boundaries', they are fully responsible for putting themselves into the situation where sex actually occurred.
> 
> Why aren't we applying that same standard to the BH?
> 
> Very simple: most of the people here have been that husband. They WANT to cut him slack.
> 
> Or in a single word: charity. Something else also lacking in certain segments of society.
> 
> If it's good for waywards, this guy should allow the full force of the law beat on him without any regard for a soft landing. His job and family should take the full force of the consequences of his actions.
> 
> So...divorced, fired, perhaps jailed...oops, sorry. The police let him off with a slap on the wrist. An act of charity which most people here (myself included) actually applaud.
> 
> He made a mistake. He regretted it. Someone had grace enough to give him a soft landing.
> 
> Frankly he got what he is not willing to give...at least right now.


It's an interesting argument but one in which I think you are wrong. 

It is probably not appropriate to discuss it within Hibiscus's thread as I don't see where this is helping her.

Perhaps start another thread to open it for discussion?


----------



## JCD

WyshIknew said:


> It's an interesting argument but one in which I think you are wrong.
> 
> It is probably not appropriate to discuss it within Hibiscus's thread as I don't see where this is helping her.
> 
> Perhaps start another thread to open it for discussion?


Eh. I've tried that. What happens is about 6 hardliners and a couple of moderates follow me there and shout at me and impugne my character so nothing is actually 'discussed'.


----------



## WyshIknew

JCD said:


> Eh. I've tried that. What happens is about 6 hardliners and a couple of moderates follow me there and shout at me and impugne my character so nothing is actually 'discussed'.


Well perhaps it might be an idea to ask Hibiscus if she is ok for this discussion to continue on her thread.

And to be honest, if six hardliners and a couple of moderates follow you there, shout at you and impugn your character, what is to stop them doing exactly the same thing on this thread?:scratchhead:


----------



## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> Well perhaps it might be an idea to ask Hibiscus if she is ok for this discussion to continue on her thread.
> 
> And to be honest, if six hardliners and a couple of moderates follow you there, shout at you and impugn your character, what is to stop them doing exactly the same thing on this thread.:scratchhead:


----------



## Red Sonja

Dyokemm said:


> But I do view them as basically immature people who still carry around enough of the 'teenage' self-centered mindset to allow them to destroy their partners and f with other people's lives.
> 
> Also part of that basic immaturity, IMO, is a general unwillingness to face up to the consequences of what they have done when it blows up in their faces.


:iagree: 

Yup, it's called an attitude of entitlement. And seems to be of epidemic proportion amongst humans.


----------



## Shaggy

JCD said:


> Eh. I've tried that. What happens is about 6 hardliners and a couple of moderates follow me there and shout at me and impugne my character so nothing is actually 'discussed'.


Jcd try as you might, you are not going to change my views on adultery or standing up and taking ones due consequences for betraying their spouse.

Nor do I suspect that i will ever change yours about everything being situationally malleable.

So it seems the best we can do is to offer our best advice to OPs from each of our perspectives and let them choose the one that resonates with them.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

Thank you for making that clear. 

I mentioned the point about my posts because you made that comment in a response directly addressed to me, so I assumed you were calling me out for claiming that.


----------



## tom67

Frankly I was surprised bh didn't get tasered and thrown in jail thanks to a few real men left. As far as consequences, if dOuche keeps being a chickensh!t coward this crap catches up to you if his goofy w wants to believe him knowing bh is divorcing that's her choice.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

And I hope my friend that you haven't felt that I have personally attacked you or impugned your character in my posts in either this thread or your other.

I do not agree with you, but I have not said anything to put you down for your beliefs, I think.

And yes, some posters have indeed called either your morals or motives into question, and I think its wrong and bs.

As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate you sharing your views because I have really listened to them and analyzed my own beliefs in their light.

I hope you are not offended that they haven't changed my mind, but I do appreciate hearing another voice/viewpoint to do a little self-evaluation.

And to those attacking or questioning JCD's character, please knock it off and be civil.

This place should be for the free exchange and discussion of all viewpoints.

We can disagree with him, present our own views, and challenge his conclusions based on the argument, but anything personal is over the line.


----------



## hibiscus

JCD said:


> Eh. I've tried that. What happens is about 6 hardliners and a couple of moderates follow me there and shout at me and impugne my character so nothing is actually 'discussed'.


JCD you viewpoint is interesting and it does relate to my situation. I don't think you are being extreme. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am always open to different viewpoints. 

So go ahead


----------



## WyshIknew

Yikes, Hibiscus!

Now you've gone and asked for it.


Any sign of your friends hubby starting to calm down?

Has POSOM decided to stop being a yellow belly?


----------



## hibiscus

Update:
BBF tells me that H has texted OM and told him that he doesn't give a @@@ with his threats. To go right ahead. Says he is going to write a letter to the OMW and verify that her H has been cheating on her. So more trouble brewing.....

My BBF is seeing the destruction she has caused and isn't really taking full responsibility for it. I think she is feeling more sorry for herself than anything else.

Today she said again that she was wrong to cheat but kindof blamed her H for her cheating. Said that they have a non existent sex life (They have sex every three month).

I told her that is NO excuse to do so much more damage. She could have addressed this with her H and perhaps improved it. I told her that she needs to admit to herself that she had sex with this man because she wanted to. No one forced her. She could have stopped herself anytime. She ENJOYED it. She needs to own that.

Until she admits this she isn't truly remorseful.... no matter how upset she is at the moment.

H has spoken with BBF's family by the way because BBF got a call from her parents asking what was going on. I am relieved because they can look after her while I am away. H is staying on the sofa at a friend's house. He wont speak to me. That upsets me greatly. I think I have lost his respect ;-(

What a mess. Rediculous when life is so short. Never take things for granted.


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> Yikes, Hibiscus!
> 
> Now you've gone and asked for it.
> 
> 
> Any sign of your friends hubby starting to calm down?
> 
> Has POSOM decided to stop being a yellow belly?


Hubby is faaar from calm. I think he has just started. But I don't blame him. I know what he is going through. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy


----------



## tom67

I'll bet they weren't having sex that much because she was getting her needs met well, elsewhere jmo.


----------



## WyshIknew

hibiscus said:


> Update:
> BBF tells me that H has texted OM and told him that he doesn't give a @@@ with his threats. To go right ahead. Says he is going to write a letter to the OMW and verify that her H has been cheating on her. So more trouble brewing.....
> 
> My BBF is seeing the destruction she has caused and isn't really taking full responsibility for it. I think she is feeling more sorry for herself than anything else.
> 
> Today she said again that she was wrong to cheat but kindof blamed her H for her cheating. Said that they have a non existent sex life (They have sex every three month).
> 
> I told her that is NO excuse to do so much more damage. She could have addressed this with her H and perhaps improved it. I told her that she needs to admit to herself that she had sex with this man because she wanted to. No one forced her. She could have stopped herself anytime. She ENJOYED it. She needs to own that.
> 
> Until she admits this she isn't truly remorseful.... no matter how upset she is at the moment.
> 
> H has spoken with BBF's family by the way because BBF got a call from her parents asking what was going on. I am relieved because they can look after her while I am away. H is staying on the sofa at a friend's house. He wont speak to me. That upsets me greatly. I think I have lost his respect ;-(
> 
> What a mess. Rediculous when life is so short. Never take things for granted.


I wonder if this is her decision or his? She may say it is his but if she has been having an affair it is not unusual for a WS to become 'faithful' to their AP.

Or he may have been feeling a disconnect from her and felt less like sex due to his suspicions of her affair.

I may have missed something but I thought _her_ story was a one night stand PA with long term EA. From your above post it almost sounds like (as suspected) a longer term PA?

ETA, I see Tom has already mentioned this.


----------



## tom67

Hibiscus turn off the mobile and the computer and reconnect with hubby on vacation.


----------



## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> I wonder if this is her decision or his? She may say it is his but if she has been having an affair it is not unusual for a WS to become 'faithful' to their AP.
> 
> Or he may have been feeling a disconnect from her and felt less like sex due to his suspicions of her affair.
> 
> I may have missed something but I thought _her_ story was a one night stand PA with long term EA. From your above post it almost sounds like (as suspected) a longer term PA?


Exactly the rationalization is so deep ugh.


----------



## Shaggy

I wonder if BBFH has read TAM because he's following the exposure plan to the letter, except the part of not talking to OM.

How is BBF finding all this out? From H or OM?


----------



## Shaggy

Another thought - BBF said she learned her lesson and would never ever cheat again. Yet, her rationalizations on why she cheated remain strong and her situation remained the same, so it's very likely that she would down the road cheat when she'd built up enough justification again.


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Update:
> BBF tells me that H has texted OM and told him that he doesn't give a @@@ with his threats. To go right ahead. Says he is going to write a letter to the OMW and verify that her H has been cheating on her. So more trouble brewing.....
> 
> *My BBF is seeing the destruction she has caused and isn't really taking full responsibility for it. I think she is feeling more sorry for herself than anything else.
> 
> Today she said again that she was wrong to cheat but kindof blamed her H for her cheating. Said that they have a non existent sex life (They have sex every three month).
> 
> I told her that is NO excuse to do so much more damage. *She could have addressed this with her H and perhaps improved it. I told her that she needs to admit to herself that she had sex with this man because she wanted to. No one forced her. She could have stopped herself anytime. She ENJOYED it. She needs to own that.
> 
> Until she admits this she isn't truly remorseful.... no matter how upset she is at the moment.
> 
> H has spoken with BBF's family by the way because BBF got a call from her parents asking what was going on. I am relieved because they can look after her while I am away. H is staying on the sofa at a friend's house. He wont speak to me. That upsets me greatly. I think I have lost his respect ;-(
> 
> What a mess. Rediculous when life is so short. Never take things for granted.


Cheaters follow the same pathetic script..it is amazing - how they are all so similar. You did X or didn't do Y so I went and screwed someone else - huh? You emotionally devastate another human being - and there is never a good reason for it.


----------



## The Middleman

Shaggy said:


> Another thought - BBF said she learned her lesson and would never ever cheat again. Yet, her rationalizations on why she cheated remain strong and her situation remained the same, so it's very likely that she would down the road cheat when she'd built up enough justification again.


BFF is going is going to get a pile of sh*t thrown on her and she deserves every bit of it .... and then some. She had no reason what so ever to cheat.

hibiscus: One more time. Start distancing yourself from BFF. By association, you are being viewed at her level. Some people might say that because you are supporting a cheater, you must be one. Remember, many judge you by your circle of friends. I'm also willing to bet her H views you as an enabler; that's why he wants nothing to do with you. She created this toilet that she is in, let her wallow in it. Her husband is doing all the right things.


----------



## tom67

If you want to see if her stbxh is doing ok have your h call him and you associate less with her. You have done more than your share in trying to help.


----------



## clipclop2

I wonder when BF will turn on Hibiscus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

clipclop2 said:


> I wonder when BF will turn on Hibiscus.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


SIGH- to further shift the blame all the more reason to cut ties with her at least for a while.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Given the BFF's attitude I'm still not convinced she is telling the whole truth. I think she is trickle truthing and the OM is hanging on for dear life - so you will get nothing out of him. If lack of sex was really a problem - she only had a ONS with a man - she was having an EA with for years? I find her story very hard to swallow....


----------



## Hortensia

tom67 said:


> If you want to see if her stbxh is doing ok have your h call him and you associate less with her. You have done more than your share in trying to help.


I would think twice of that. You don't want to be accused of an affair (or EA) with the husband.
There is a thread on here about wife who cheated, best friend "lost all respect for her", and went ahead to console the husband by becoming his mistress.
Careful.I would distance myself from her, though, in this situation, at least until the storm passes..like someone pointed, you can be viewed by others like on the same level as her by association.


----------



## tom67

Hortensia said:


> I would think twice of that. You don't want to be accused of an affair (or EA) with the husband.
> There is a thread on here about wife who cheated, best friend "lost all respect for her", and went ahead to console the husband by becoming his mistress.
> Careful.I would distance myself from her, though, in this situation, at least until the storm passes..like someone pointed, you can be viewed by others like on the same level as her by association.


Oh no I meant for her hubby to talk to him not her unless your thinking he's joining the other team.


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> I wonder if this is her decision or his? She may say it is his but if she has been having an affair it is not unusual for a WS to become 'faithful' to their AP.
> 
> Or he may have been feeling a disconnect from her and felt less like sex due to his suspicions of her affair.
> 
> I may have missed something but I thought _her_ story was a one night stand PA with long term EA. From your above post it almost sounds like (as suspected) a longer term PA?
> 
> ETA, I see Tom has already mentioned this.


She says that her h has suffered from ED since they first met ( about ten years ago). The sexlife has always been non exixtent. I don't believe she was having a longterm PA with the OM. just that one time


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> Another thought - BBF said she learned her lesson and would never ever cheat again. Yet, her rationalizations on why she cheated remain strong and her situation remained the same, so it's very likely that she would down the road cheat when she'd built up enough justification again.


Yes this is a concern. But its early days yet. She may change her ways pendindg on how things progress.

My partner blamed everyone except himself. But he changed his tune after five months and realised that he had a commitment issue


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> I wonder if BBFH has read TAM because he's following the exposure plan to the letter, except the part of not talking to OM.
> 
> How is BBF finding all this out? From H or OM?


What is this exposure letter? BBF is getting this info from her H through text messages and calls. She has not been in contact with the OM since he sent her that text. She is also not answering the calls and text messages from the OMW any longer.


----------



## The Middleman

hibiscus said:


> She says that her h has suffered from ED since they first met ( about ten years ago). The sexlife has always been non exixtent. I don't believe she was having a longterm PA with the OM. just that one time


OK, she knew about the ED when they met and she still married him. So she was accepting of it. Then one day she comes to the conclusion that she "needs some" so she cheats. After this, you still believes she did it only one time? You more than anyone should know that the one thing cheaters do well is lie. Wake up sweetheart.


----------



## Hortensia

tom67 said:


> Oh no I meant for her hubby to talk to him not her unless your thinking he's joining the other team.


Well, she could call once or twice to check on him but that's it. Not to become his ally or cry on shoulder. That would look fishy from outside and could even turn into an EA.
I think she should distance from both for now, but not take any side.


----------



## hibiscus

tom67 said:


> Hibiscus turn off the mobile and the computer and reconnect with hubby on vacation.


Yes I will. You wont hear from me till I return early September.
Will definitely reconnect with him. He has been very good to me through all of this.


----------



## hibiscus

The Middleman said:


> BFF is going is going to get a pile of sh*t thrown on her and she deserves every bit of it .... and then some. She had no reason what so ever to cheat.
> 
> hibiscus: One more time. Start distancing yourself from BFF. By association, you are being viewed at her level. Some people might say that because you are supporting a cheater, you must be one. Remember, many judge you by your circle of friends. I'm also willing to bet her H views you as an enabler; that's why he wants nothing to do with you. She created this toilet that she is in, let her wallow in it. Her husband is doing all the right things.


I definitely think her H thinks I am an enabler. This is what is upsetting me so much. To even think that I am a part of this makes me feel ill.


----------



## hibiscus

The OM makes me want to vomit. Cheating on his pregnant wife. SICK!!


----------



## Shaggy

hibiscus said:


> What is this exposure letter? BBF is getting this info from her H through text messages and calls. She has not been in contact with the OM since he sent her that text. She is also not answering the calls and text messages from the OMW any longer.


Not exposure letter.

Exposure plan to the letter - meaning following the plan very closely.


It's actually a good sign that her husband is telling her this stuff - it shows he still cares about what she thinks. If he went totally dark on her, it would show he's closed the door completely.

He might still give her a chance when the fire burns down in him.

I keep harping on this - she has right now an opportunity to lay the ground work for a future R, but only if she acts to stand by her man. 

Ideas-

1. She should write a letter to the OMW backing up what her husband says - or - she should call her and do it, either way, exposure is important to her husband, so she should be helping him

2. She should get her resume together and get it out there, she should start networking for a new job ASAP


----------



## hibiscus

clipclop2 said:


> I wonder when BF will turn on Hibiscus.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will be fine if this happens. I did the best I could in this ugly scenario. I will be able to sleep at night. Not her tho


----------



## tom67

Shaggy said:


> Not exposure letter.
> 
> Exposure plan to the letter - meaning following the plan very closely.
> 
> 
> It's actually a good sign that her husband is telling her this stuff - it shows he still cares about what she thinks. If he went totally dark on her, it would show he's closed the door completely.
> 
> He might still give her a chance when the fire burns down in him.
> 
> I keep harping on this - she has right now an opportunity to lay the ground work for a future R, but only if she acts to stand by her man.
> 
> Ideas-
> 
> 1. She should write a letter to the OMW backing up what her husband says - or - she should call her and do it, either way, exposure is important to her husband, so she should be helping him
> 
> 2. She should get her resume together and get it out there, she should start networking for a new job ASAP


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## azteca1986

hibiscus said:


> I definitely think *her H thinks I am an enabler.* This is what is upsetting me so much. To even think that I am a part of this makes me feel ill.


More collateral damage from BFF's bad choices.


----------



## hibiscus

The Middleman said:


> OK, she knew about the ED when they met and she still married him. So she was accepting of it. Then one day she comes to the conclusion that she "needs some" so she cheats. After this, you still believes she did it only one time? You more than anyone should know that the one thing cheaters do well is lie. Wake up sweetheart.


Think what you want but I still know this person. Despite her hiding this EA/PA with this man. I still believe that she had sex with this guy once. She has never cheated in her life before. I believe she is telling me the truth. I believed she married because she believed in marriage vows. But somewhere along the line she changed.

She is 46. Maybe she is having a midlife crisis. No excuse I know. Just guessing as its out of character. She has been an amazing friend to many people for many many years.


----------



## hibiscus

Shaggy said:


> Not exposure letter.
> 
> Exposure plan to the letter - meaning following the plan very closely.
> 
> 
> It's actually a good sign that her husband is telling her this stuff - it shows he still cares about what she thinks. If he went totally dark on her, it would show he's closed the door completely.
> 
> He might still give her a chance when the fire burns down in him.
> 
> I keep harping on this - she has right now an opportunity to lay the ground work for a future R, but only if she acts to stand by her man.
> 
> Ideas-
> 
> 1. She should write a letter to the OMW backing up what her husband says - or - she should call her and do it, either way, exposure is important to her husband, so she should be helping him
> 
> 2. She should get her resume together and get it out there, she should start networking for a new job ASAP


Yes I will tell her. Good ideas.


----------



## hibiscus

You wont hear off me till beginning of September but please continue to give any advise to my situation. I appreciate it.

Thank you all for posting


----------



## LostViking

Hibiscus how old is BFF's hubby?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> Another thought - BBF said she learned her lesson and would never ever cheat again. Yet, her rationalizations on why she cheated remain strong and her situation remained the same, so it's very likely that she would down the road cheat when she'd built up enough justification again.


I am not actually trying to change your mind about anything. I AM taking the principles you espouse...and applying them a bit more broadly.

So...you think the BH should own his stuff for the assault, yes? 

But that being said, about the above comment. I agree with you that cheating is a scuzzy thing to do.

HOWEVER, while you (generically...hell specifically) state 'well, you are responsible for half the troubles in a marriage", I'm afraid your tone seems to indicate that ANYTHING the BH did was incidental to the infidelity. This is not always the case.

Believe it or not, WS sometimes have very legitimate beefs with their spouse and guess what, SOMETIMES the WS isn't responsible for 50% of the trouble in the marriage...they are responsible for far less.

So these so called 'rationalizations' are actually people standing up for BIG ISSUES in the marriage. Well...sometimes. Some people can't deal with the guilt and will hide behind anything which makes them feel less guilty...so you are right...sometimes.

And sometimes not. And I'll be damned if I know when you are and when you aren't.

I suspect you don't know either.


----------



## JCD

Truthseeker1 said:


> Given the BFF's attitude I'm still not convinced she is telling the whole truth. I think she is trickle truthing and the OM is hanging on for dear life - so you will get nothing out of him. If lack of sex was really a problem - she only had a ONS with a man - she was having an EA with for years? I find her story very hard to swallow....


Was that the attitude of feeling out exposure to her friend, actually having the courage to expose to her husband, the days of tears she's shed in the last few days?

Which part of her ACTIONS did you disagree with? The fact that sexlessness is a MAJOR issue in most marriages, this isn't 'attitude'. It's her reality. It hurts.


----------



## JCD

hibiscus said:


> Think what you want but I still know this person. Despite her hiding this EA/PA with this man. I still believe that she had sex with this guy once. She has never cheated in her life before. I believe she is telling me the truth. I believed she married because she believed in marriage vows. But somewhere along the line she changed.
> 
> She is 46. Maybe she is having a midlife crisis. No excuse I know. Just guessing as its out of character. She has been an amazing friend to many people for many many years.


Yes.

And if you believe this, then she is (mostly) still the same person...except she is going through a traumatic time.

So...if she wants to talk, talk. If she wants to not talk, leave her alone.

I think that the best thing you can do is at some point, send her a text or email saying "I know you are going through a tough time. Meet me for lunch at X. We will NOT talk about what is happening and will have a nice lunch and maybe some window shopping."

I think she would appreciate being able to leave this incident behind for a couple hours and just be hibiscus and BBF instead of 'that scarlet woman'. Treat her like normal and give her a small emotional break. Do the things you did together without regard to the infidelity.

That kernel of 'normal' might help her see that life goes on even after all this craziness occurs and she will speak and think less of suicide.

I am not a psychologist however, so take it for what it's worth. You know her best.


----------



## Truthseeker1

JCD said:


> Was that the attitude of feeling out exposure to her friend, actually having the courage to expose to her husband, the days of tears she's shed in the last few days?
> 
> Which part of her ACTIONS did you disagree with? The fact that sexlessness is a MAJOR issue in most marriages, this isn't 'attitude'. It's her reality. It hurts.



It was her choice to cheat and then shift the blame to her husband. There are other ways to either deal with Ed issues in a marriage up to and including separation.


----------



## JCD

Truthseeker1 said:


> It was her choice to cheat and then shift the blame to her husband. There are other ways to either deal with Ed issues in a marriage up to and including separation.


Here is the disconnect.

Do you think that she hasn't tried to have a few candid conversations with her husband? Like sex, it takes two to tango. Or do you believe that this woman who supposedly loves this man didn't raise the issue once?

While I agree that if he refused out of pride, she should have separated, the fact that she didn't actually weakens your position because that means she didn't leave her husband out of love.

Which makes her LT affair rather less likely.

I happen to trust hibiscus' take on the character of her friend and her truthfulness. We don't have the direct connection to see earnestness.

Maybe that makes us objective, but it also makes us less informed.


----------



## Whip Morgan

In the end it's not about what hibiscus or posters believe , it's about what her H believes. And if many here assume, based on what has been said, that its been a longer affair than a ONS, it's very possible the husband thinks that way also. He'll be considering all those moments where he had that gut feeling and suspected. And all of her denials. And he was right all along. 

Hibiscus , Any person would be lucky to have a friend like you. Give her H time. Once he cools off (eventually) you may be able to talk with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1

JCD said:


> Here is the disconnect.
> 
> Do you think that she hasn't tried to have a few candid conversations with her husband? Like sex, it takes two to tango. Or do you believe that this woman who supposedly loves this man didn't raise the issue once?
> 
> While I agree that if he refused out of pride, she should have separated, the fact that she didn't actually weakens your position because that means she didn't leave her husband out of love.
> 
> Which makes her LT affair rather less likely.
> 
> I happen to trust hibiscus' take on the character of her friend and her truthfulness. We don't have the direct connection to see earnestness.
> 
> Maybe that makes us objective, but it also makes us less informed.


You are making a leap - how do you know how hard she tried? Even if she did and he did not respond - that does not justify her affair. She loves him - well now she has devastated him - so stop making excuses for the WW here. There is no defending a multiyear EA - which her husband confronted her about and a PA (for who knows how long)


----------



## tom67

Truthseeker1 said:


> You are making a leap - how do you know how hard she tried? Even if she did and he did not respond - that does not justify her affair. She loves him - well now she has devastated him - so stop making excuses for the WW here. There is no defending a multiyear EA - which her husband confronted her about and a PA (for who knows how long)


Like Middleman said she married him likely knowing he had ed. Her blaming the husband shows to me at least she is only sorry she got caught. She could have invested time with her h and gotten him medical help. Nope she invested it with another married coworker. Sad!


----------



## kenmoore14217

hibiscus may be on hiatus but I do not believe for one moment that this was a "one off" thing unless you are talking about a "one off" per week thing!

hibiscus is basing this on her REAL good friend telling her the TRUTH.

Yeah, like that's going to happen


----------



## tom67

kenmoore14217 said:


> hibiscus may be on hiatus but I do not believe for one moment that this was a "one off" thing unless you are talking about a "one off" per week thing!
> 
> hibiscus is basing this on her REAL good friend telling her the TRUTH.
> 
> Yeah, like that's going to happen


I'm afraid there will be more to be revealed when she comes back in september. When they were in the same dept until his recent promotion and one of them had an office instead of a cubicle, I mean come on. Ok enough of speculation till she comes back.


----------



## Shaggy

JCD said:


> I am not actually trying to change your mind about anything. I AM taking the principles you espouse...and applying them a bit more broadly.
> 
> So...you think the BH should own his stuff for the assault, yes?
> 
> But that being said, about the above comment. I agree with you that cheating is a scuzzy thing to do.
> 
> HOWEVER, while you (generically...hell specifically) state 'well, you are responsible for half the troubles in a marriage", I'm afraid your tone seems to indicate that ANYTHING the BH did was incidental to the infidelity. This is not always the case.
> 
> Believe it or not, WS sometimes have very legitimate beefs with their spouse and guess what, SOMETIMES the WS isn't responsible for 50% of the trouble in the marriage...they are responsible for far less.
> 
> So these so called 'rationalizations' are actually people standing up for BIG ISSUES in the marriage. Well...sometimes. Some people can't deal with the guilt and will hide behind anything which makes them feel less guilty...so you are right...sometimes.
> 
> And sometimes not. And I'll be damned if I know when you are and when you aren't.
> 
> I suspect you don't know either.


JCD, I'm not sure I 100% agree that spouses share 50/50 responsibility for troubles in marriages. 

I do think they share 50/50 equal responsibility to being highest, faithful ,loyal, and responsibility for making the marriage Orkney and thrive.

I value loyalty very highly. When you marry , it isn't a union of convenience you pick and choose to participate in. You are creating a union of two people and you pledge your loyalty to the other.

Cheating is a betrayal of that pledge and of your personal honor.

Some people see honor, integrity, loyalty as grey areas to be selectively applied. That behavior is what you see in bad TV dramas. 

In real life, maintaining those things is what a good truth worthy person chooses, and disregarding them willingly is in my opinion a sign of a person of poor character.

It's not the choices that are given to us that defines who we are, it's what we choose from them that does.

A nice phrase, but also very true.

In the case of cheating - that is a betrayal of fidelity. Hiding it is a betrayal of honesty. Blaming the BS for it is a betrayal of loyalty to the marriage because the WS should have either first.

Does the H in this case need to stand up and own his choice to hit the OM? Yes he does, but I think he actually did do that. He hit him in plain sight of others. He didnt do it in a dark alley alone and then deny it. Instead he confronted him in front of witnesses and gave it to him.

Do I endorse violence like that? No, not in a civilized society, but not because it wasn't deserved. I appose it because it leads to escalation and can harm innocent people.


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> The OM makes me want to vomit. Cheating on his pregnant wife. SICK!!


If you recall I said that in the beginning. This "man" makes all the rest of us look bad. I'd sock him in the mouth just for that alone.


----------



## The Middleman

hibiscus said:


> Think what you want but I still know this person. Despite her hiding this EA/PA with this man. I still believe that she had sex with this guy once. She has never cheated in her life before. I believe she is telling me the truth. I believed she married because she believed in marriage vows. But somewhere along the line she changed.
> 
> She is 46. Maybe she is having a midlife crisis. No excuse I know. Just guessing as its out of character. She has been an amazing friend to many people for many many years.


Sorry if I came off as snippy, but my opinion remains the same. The minute I saw your ED comment, that made my head explode. As I guy, I can tell you that the pain of the cheating has to be much so worse if you have an ED issue; simply because it further damages your sense of self respect. "She cheated because I can't get it up". Think about it; how may times did she assure him that his ED was not a problem, only for him to find out that she banged some guy in his car. I don't see any way in hell he could go back to her and then look himself in the mirror every morning without wanting to slit his own throat. What she did was heinous. 

I'm of the belief that someone who cheats physically on their spouse is not worthy of forgiveness, but in this case its especially true.


----------



## The Middleman

bfree said:


> This "man" makes all the rest of us look bad.


Hey, don't include me in this, I've never done that.


----------



## The Middleman

kenmoore14217 said:


> hibiscus may be on hiatus but I do not believe for one moment that this was a "one off" thing unless you are talking about a "one off" per week thing!
> 
> hibiscus is basing this on her REAL good friend telling her the TRUTH.
> 
> Yeah, like that's going to happen


Agreed. And when you add the ED factor, it makes even more sense.


----------



## treyvion

The Middleman said:


> Sorry if I came off as snippy, but my opinion remains the same. The minute I saw your ED comment, that made my head explode. As I guy, I can tell you that the pain of the cheating has to be much so worse if you have an ED issue; simply because it further damages your sense of self respect. "She cheated because I can't get it up". Think about it; how may times did she assure him that his ED was not a problem, only for him to find out that she banged some guy in his car. I don't see any way in hell he could go back to her and them look himself in the mirror without wanting to slit his own throat. What she did was heinous.
> 
> I'm of the belief that someone who cheats physically on their spouse is not worthy of forgiveness, but in this case its especially true.


How would he even want to drive in that car anymore?


----------



## tom67

The Middleman said:


> Hey, don't include me in this, I've never done that.


I didn't see anything.


----------



## JCD

Truthseeker1 said:


> You are making a leap - how do you know how hard she tried? Even if she did and he did not respond - that does not justify her affair. She loves him - well now she has devastated him - so stop making excuses for the WW here. There is no defending a multiyear EA - which her husband confronted her about and a PA (for who knows how long)


A leap. Perhaps. It seems rational, so if it is a leap, it's a small one.

Speaking of 'leap' so is the idea that she's been engaging in a multiyear physical affair.

Defend? Here is the issue. Very few people can come up with anything like a good definition of what a EA is vs. a friendship. I didn't know. Many posters didn't know.

It is easy after the fact to point fingers. All she thought was that she was bantering with a sexually attractive person...just like occurs on T.V. all the time. She thought she was defending her personal autonomy against perhaps an overly jealous husband. She didn't see the danger because she didn't read about these stories a dozen times a week like we do.

So not so much defend. If you get to make crap up about multi year affairs despite the fact the OP is STRONGLY indicating this is not likely the case, I get to make crap up too.

That is how it works.


----------



## JCD

The Middleman said:


> Sorry if I came off as snippy, but my opinion remains the same. The minute I saw your ED comment, that made my head explode. As I guy, I can tell you that the pain of the cheating has to be much so worse if you have an ED issue; simply because it further damages your sense of self respect. "She cheated because I can't get it up". Think about it; how may times did she assure him that his ED was not a problem, only for him to find out that she banged some guy in his car. I don't see any way in hell he could go back to her and then look himself in the mirror every morning without wanting to slit his own throat. What she did was heinous.
> 
> I'm of the belief that someone who cheats physically on their spouse is not worthy of forgiveness, but in this case its especially true.


As a guy, you must also know that a lot of men don't want to DEAL with that issue...to pretend it will go away, or get better or refuse to seek any treatment whatsoever. I can point you to a number of threads on the Sex in Marriage and the Men's Clubhouse to substantiate this statement.

So...what does a wife do if she has a husband like this and she KNEW this from the begining? She toughs it out. After all, as stated, she knew (maybe) what she was getting into. She bought the bull...SHE picked the one who couldn't get it up...

And...one day...she slips and feels miserable.

Everyone wants to assume that she's...well...someone as egregious and characterless as their own WS...or worse.

Why not deal with the situation as the OP describes it, not how our (well some of our) fevered imaginations are making things?

If it turns out I am wrong, I shall admit it.

Now...how does your advice change for the WW if her hubby refused all ED treatment AND this was a one off?


----------



## The Middleman

JCD said:


> So...what does a wife do if she has a husband like this and she KNEW this from the begining? She toughs it out. After all, as stated, she knew (maybe) what she was getting into. She bought the bull...SHE picked the one who couldn't get it up...
> 
> And...one day...she slips and feels miserable.


Sorry dude, but this doesn't change my opinion in the least. WS's are reprehensible to start with, but under these circumstances, this one is worse than the rest. Cheating is an intentional act to hurt a spouse. Why? Because the WS knows full well that the if the BS finds out they would be devastated ... but they do it anyway. This opinion of mine will never change.

She didn't slip up, she did this intentionally. If you want to paint the WS in this case as a poor woman stuck in a difficult situation, that's your prerogative. Not me, however. She rubbed her husband's affliction right in his face by banging this guy in her husbands car. She deserves the pain, in my opinion, because she is reprehensible.



JCD said:


> Everyone wants to assume that she's...well...someone as egregious and characterless as their own WS...or worse.
> ....
> Now...how does your advice change for the WW if her hubby refused all ED treatment AND this was a one off?


Seriously dude, was that last statement for real? If he refused treatment for the ED, the affair is on him? Really?

OK here is my answer, if he refused treatment for the ED and she really need the physical connection ... then divorce him. It's that simple.

In the mean time, posting rules prohibit me from calling her what I want to call her ever since I found out about the ED issue.

Edit: People, affairs are not mistakes or bad choices, they are conscious decisions that hurt and destroy.

Second Edit: I've always said that a true ONS might be forgivable depending on the circumstances. However, I don't feel that this was a real ONS. This built up over time, even if the sex was only once (which I really don't think it was).


----------



## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> Think what you want but I still know this person. Despite her hiding this EA/PA with this man. I still believe that she had sex with this guy once. She has never cheated in her life before. I believe she is telling me the truth. I believed she married because she believed in marriage vows. But somewhere along the line she changed.
> 
> She is 46. Maybe she is having a midlife crisis. No excuse I know. Just guessing as its out of character. She has been an amazing friend to many people for many many years.


Sex once every three months is considered a sexless marriage. I'm sure that she did not enter her marriage thinking that she was condemning herself to a sexless/loveless life. 

She was wrong to cheat of course. It sounds like she was in emotional pain over the lack of physical intimacy (and perhaps other intimacy as well). Unfortunately this is often what leads a person to cheat. She should have just left him.


----------



## EleGirl

Truthseeker1 said:


> It was her choice to cheat and then shift the blame to her husband. There are other ways to either deal with Ed issues in a marriage up to and including separation.


Yes there are ways to deal with ED. But ultimately it's the husband's responsibility to deal with it. He apparently did not think that it was important enough.

So that left her with a very few options, divorce being one of them. Many people will cheat.


----------



## Dyokemm

Yes, BH should face any consequences that occur because he smacked POS. He did it, and I think he was justified to do so since the d**n government/legal system sure as h**l won't give him any justice. But, once again, mature people own their s**t.

Yes. WW had the right to demand and expect her BH actually do something about ED problems if he had them. She does not have to accept a sexless M.

But her option if he refuses to try is to leave. Period. It does not excuse her choice to cheat and cake eat off of the rest of the things he provided her in the M. That was just a selfish and inexcusable choice.

And I do not see this as a case of simply 'slipping'.

While I agree with JCD that the difference between an OS friendship and an EA CAN be blurry at times, in this case apparently the WW carried on flirting and intimate conduct so bad that she was confronted a few times by her BH about it.

Instead of using those reality checks as a chance for self-evaluation and halting her drift towards a PA, she gaslighted and then continued the 'fun'.

Any rational person could have predicted it would eventually reach the PA stage. Even if it was only the one time, and then the AP's decided to stop the game, it could never be described as an unintentional episode.

The year of deception and lying to hide the cheating was just a plain and simple immature refusal to own up to their crappy decisions and actions.

WW deserves credit for at least coming clean and facing the consequences of her cheating after OP talked some sense into her.

POSOM? Not so much. He's still acting like an immature p***y, and if I read right now even threatening WW (BFF) with legal action if she continues to talk to his BW while he continues to gaslight.

What a s**tbag.


----------



## theroad

Truthseeker1 said:


> Given the BFF's attitude I'm still not convinced she is telling the whole truth. I think she is trickle truthing and the OM is hanging on for dear life - so you will get nothing out of him. If lack of sex was really a problem - she only had a ONS with a man - she was having an EA with for years? I find her story very hard to swallow....


That WW had no problem swallowing, and it was more then one time.


----------



## The Middleman

Dyokemm said:


> And I do not see this as a case of simply 'slipping'.


There is no such thing as slipping.



Dyokemm said:


> While I agree with JCD that the difference between an OS friendship and an EA CAN be blurry at times, in this case apparently the WW carried on flirting and intimate conduct so bad that she was confronted a few times by her BH about it.
> 
> Instead of using those reality checks as a chance for self-evaluation and halting her drift towards a PA, she gaslighted and then continued the 'fun'.


And this is why no self respecting spouse allows the other spouse to have OS friendships in the marriage. Lines inevitably will be crossed. OS friendships need to be crushed like roaches the minute a spouse sees one.


----------



## Dyokemm

I think some of the other posters like Truthseeker have a good point that it could very well have been more that one time and BFF is still gaslighting.

If she claimed a sexless M as what drove her to cheat, then I doubt a single ONS would have satisfied her urges.

And, I guess the lack of sex could not have been that horrible for her since supposedly the guilt of her one indiscretion managed to totally reconcile her not only accepting that M but calling it perfect and being willing to go to her grave rather than risk losing it by coming clean.

If it was truly that much of a problem for her, wouldn't the taste of a different possible life have made her LESS willing to crawl back into such an unsatisfying situation?

Something isn't quite adding up with the story BFF is presenting.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> I think some of the other posters like Truthseeker have a good point that it could very well have been more that one time and BFF is still gaslighting.
> 
> If she claimed a sexless M as what drove her to cheat, then I doubt a single ONS would have satisfied her urges.
> 
> And, I guess the lack of sex could not have been that horrible for her since supposedly the guilt of her one indiscretion managed to totally reconcile her not only accepting that M but calling it perfect and being willing to go to her grave rather than risk losing it by coming clean.
> 
> If it was truly that much of a problem for her, wouldn't the taste of a different possible life have made her LESS willing to crawl back into such an unsatisfying situation?
> 
> Something isn't quite adding up with the story BFF is presenting.


We are assuming BFF was telling the truth on thee ED though just sayin?


----------



## Truthseeker1

EleGirl said:


> Yes there are ways to deal with ED. But ultimately it's the husband's responsibility to deal with it. He apparently did not think that it was important enough.
> 
> So that left her with a very few options, divorce being one of them. Many people will cheat.


She had clear options - and her choice to have a multi-year EA and a PA ar inexcusable. Plus we are making assumptions about the husband bases on her obvious blame shifting....


----------



## Dyokemm

tom67,

I agree.

That story raises the questions I just brought up.

Why would a sexless partner be only satisfied with ONE incidence of PA?...if its true

Why would a WW rush back into a truly unsatisfying sexless M AND call it perfect and be unwilling to risk losing it by confessing?...if its true

Something doesn't quite fit here.

IF the story is true, then I would suspect that WW would have satisfied her desires a lot more than once.

I would also expect her to be unwilling to return to such a unsatisfying situation FOR A WHOLE YEAR and then claim that her M was perfect and she was unwilling to risk losing it by confessing.

I think either the ED 'issue' is bs or she is probably still gaslighting the extent of this if it is true.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> tom67,
> 
> I agree.
> 
> That story raises the questions I just brought up.
> 
> Why would a sexless partner be only satisfied with ONE incidence of PA?...if its true
> 
> Why would a WW rush back into a truly unsatisfying sexless M AND call it perfect and be unwilling to risk losing it by confessing?...if its true
> 
> Something doesn't quite fit here.
> 
> IF the story is true, then I would suspect that WW would have satisfied her desires a lot more than once.
> 
> I would also expect her to be unwilling to return to such a unsatisfying situation FOR A WHOLE YEAR and then claim that her M was perfect and she was unwilling to risk losing it by confessing.
> 
> I think either the ED 'issue' is bs or she is probably still gaslighting the extent of this if it is true.


That's probably it in a nutshell. BFF reduced the sex with h and had her needs met with dOuche till he was promoted-possible.


----------



## JCD

Dyokemm said:


> Yes, BH should face any consequences that occur because he smacked POS. He did it, and I think he was justified to do so since the d**n government/legal system sure as h**l won't give him any justice. But, once again, mature people own their s**t.
> 
> Yes. WW had the right to demand and expect her BH actually do something about ED problems if he had them. She does not have to accept a sexless M.
> 
> But her option if he refuses to try is to leave. Period. It does not excuse her choice to cheat and cake eat off of the rest of the things he provided her in the M. That was just a selfish and inexcusable choice.
> 
> And I do not see this as a case of simply 'slipping'.
> 
> *While I agree with JCD that the difference between an OS friendship and an EA CAN be blurry at times, in this case apparently the WW carried on flirting and intimate conduct so bad that she was confronted a few times by her BH about it.*
> 
> Instead of using those reality checks as a chance for self-evaluation and halting her drift towards a PA, she gaslighted and then continued the 'fun'.
> 
> Any rational person could have predicted it would eventually reach the PA stage. Even if it was only the one time, and then the AP's decided to stop the game, it could never be described as an unintentional episode.
> 
> The year of deception and lying to hide the cheating was just a plain and simple immature refusal to own up to their crappy decisions and actions.
> 
> WW deserves credit for at least coming clean and facing the consequences of her cheating after OP talked some sense into her.
> 
> POSOM? Not so much. He's still acting like an immature p***y, and if I read right now even threatening WW (BFF) with legal action if she continues to talk to his BW while he continues to gaslight.
> 
> What a s**tbag.


And that is how I personally define an EA (With caveats). If the spouse starts asking pointed questions and even starts asking for total separation, than that is when the person starts choosing the EA friendship as the primary relationship.

HOWEVER, I say that with one caveat: We have all met insanely jealous people, where ANY relationship (such as Middleman's definition) with someone of the opposite sex causes them to lose it and throw increasing levels of accusation. ("Don't tell me it's innocent! I saw how she was looking at you!" "Who? Aunt Bertie?...")

These people's judgment are already off. For mostly normal people, that rule works, I think.

The only other thing I add is ANY relationship which the spouse questions is an EA. Yes guys, that means your friend Cletus who goes raccoon hunting with you every weekend is included. And yes girls, if you are spending more time with Jennifer and that trumps hubby and kiddy time, it's an EA of sorts.

Unfortunately, we as a Western society have been taught that our selfhood (which includes friends) should be immune to outside 'judgment', particularly 'girl powr' types.

I am NOT of the opinion that a person cannot be friends with others, even of the opposite sex. I do not think that that whole 'Billy and Alison' thing from Melrose Place (dating myself) was particularly healthy either, where the other person is your whole life.

But you do have to be a bit more careful with the OS.


----------



## JCD

EleGirl said:


> Yes there are ways to deal with ED. But ultimately it's the husband's responsibility to deal with it. He apparently did not think that it was important enough.
> 
> So that left her with a very few options, divorce being one of them. Many people will cheat.


Yes...many people in such a situation will cheat...if they want to fill that ONE need, but still love their spouse and want to remain with them among.

It is not a healthy or moral choice...but an understandable one. I believe the term is 'cleft stick'.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

I agree with you that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with OS friendships. Adults should be able to maintain proper boundaries in their interactions, and you're right, sometimes that requires extra care and caution.

I also agree that some partners are overly jealous of any OS interactions by there partners. This is not a psychologically healthy situation either, IMO.

I think if your partner calls you out on your interactions though, a mature person should take some time to step back and objectively do some honest self-evaluation.

The commitments you have made to your partner make doing this imperative, and also to make changes to your behavior to address your partner's concerns.

And if this self-evaluation makes you realize that you have entered dangerous territory in crossing boundaries, and you are developing inappropriate feelings, it should be YOU who takes the step of removing the OM/OW from your life. 

You shouldn't wait for your partner to make this demand.

Unfortunately, I don't think OP's BFF ever did this. Instead she gaslighted her BH several times so she could continue her fun.

I'm sure she was telling herself she would never take it PA, but that is a fool's hope. Any rational person could see this PA coming from a mile away.

So was it intentional or unintentional? An outsider will never be able to know for sure when intent for PA ACTUALLY entered the relationship. 

But, one thing for sure, it certainly was predictable.

Also, I would lead towards the intentional side because BFF is citing ED problems as a motivation to cheat. Well a simple EA would not solve that, so there was probably intent for PA in her actions.

If the ED is actually true, then I also think BFF is probably still gaslighting the extent of this for reasons I stated in my last post.


----------



## JCD

The Middleman said:


> She didn't slip up, she did this intentionally. If you want to paint the WS in this case as a poor woman stuck in a difficult situation, that's your prerogative. Not me, however. She rubbed her husband's affliction right in his face by banging this guy in her husbands car.
> 
> Edit: People, affairs are not mistakes or bad choices, they are conscious decisions that hurt and destroy.
> 
> Second Edit: I've always said that a true ONS might be forgivable depending on the circumstances. However, I don't feel that this was a real ONS. This built up over time, even if the sex was only once (which I really don't think it was).


These three statements are contradictory and frankly, IMO, the first two aggressively deny human nature. If, as you say it is always intentional and a deliberate attempt to hurt someone, how do you forgive that, ONS or not?



Dyokemm said:


> And I do not see this as a case of simply 'slipping'.
> 
> While I agree with JCD that the difference between an OS friendship and an EA CAN be blurry at times, in this case apparently the WW carried on flirting and intimate conduct so bad that she was confronted a few times by her BH about it.
> 
> Instead of using those reality checks as a chance for self-evaluation and halting her drift towards a PA, she gaslighted and then continued the 'fun'.
> 
> Any *rational person* could have predicted it would eventually reach the PA stage. Even if it was only the one time, and then the AP's decided to stop the game, it could never be described as an unintentional episode.


And this bolded point ties in to why I think that Middleman's point is so self evidently wrong.

This has pretty much happened to every single one of us...or we observed it. A bunch of kids (or adults) start to 'have some fun'. Deep inside, they know they are pushing boundaries...but getting hurt 'won't happen to them'. They know when to stop. They are SMART enough to know where that edge is. And it is SO MUCH FUN.

Until something snaps.

And then, you have a line of crestfallen people sitting in a waiting room as parents/spouses/authority figures ask these normally mature people what the hell they were thinking while someone gets their arm set.

Yes, this strikes to maturity...but almost everyone is a bit immature at times. Fun sneaks up on you...if not with infidelity, with drink, car driving, hunting or the ever popular 'dares'.

RATIONAL outsiders who are not in the emotional high of the FUN of course can see where it MIGHT go. But they are 'rational' because they aren't involved.

And like a bunch of people who engaged in 'fun', if they get away with it once, all it does is reinforce to them that they 'got this boundary thing locked up'. They were able to play on the bridge/shoot the guns/flirt with X and they got away with it...no harm...no foul.

Her husband was 'wrong' about her slipping, at least in her eyes every time...until she slipped.



Dyokemm said:


> That story raises the questions I just brought up.
> 
> Why would a sexless partner be only satisfied with ONE incidence of PA?...if its true
> 
> Why would a WW rush back into a truly unsatisfying sexless M AND call it perfect and be unwilling to risk losing it by confessing?...if its true
> 
> Something doesn't quite fit here.
> 
> IF the story is true, then I would suspect that WW would have satisfied her desires a lot more than once.
> 
> I would also expect her to be unwilling to return to such a unsatisfying situation FOR A WHOLE YEAR and then claim that her M was perfect and she was unwilling to risk losing it by confessing.
> 
> I think either the ED 'issue' is bs or she is probably still gaslighting the extent of this if it is true.


IIRC, on one of the threads where we discussed this, you stated that WS were not intrinsically evil people. However, with this statement, that really reveals that you think that WS really have no sense of ethics at all.

Let me first answer a question you should have asked.

Why would a woman, driven by a sexless marriage, flirt? Because while she might not be having sex, at least she FEELS sexy. She feels it is not a lack in herself, a fear anybody in a sexless marriage experiences.

But to answer the question you DID ask: Why would a sexless partner be only satisfied with ONE incidence of PA?

Because she found the game not worth the candle. 

Because the loss of self respect wasn't worth a sh*tty orgasm in the back of a car. 

Because she actually has a sense of ethics and she is absolutely appalled at the 'slip' and what she is capable of.

Because the reality and consequences of what she did woke her up out of the fantasy. 

Because she is intelligent enough and self reflective enough to see the consequences of a repeat. 

Because having her family, her friends, her coworkers and all the people on TAM figuratively spitting on her isn't worth it.

Because she actually values what she DOES have in her married relationship and finds the risk of it's loss not worth what she doesn't have.

But...this assumes that she is intelligent, self reflective and remorseful. This assumption is not much in evidence around here. And this awareness came a small squirt of semen too late.



Dyokemm said:


> And if this self-evaluation makes you realize that you have entered dangerous territory in crossing boundaries, and you are developing inappropriate feelings, it should be YOU who takes the step of removing the OM/OW from your life.
> 
> *You shouldn't wait for your partner to make this demand.*
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think OP's BFF ever did this. Instead she gaslighted her BH several times so she could continue her fun.
> 
> I'm sure she was telling herself she would never take it PA, but that is a fool's hope. Any rational person could see this PA coming from a mile away.
> 
> So was it intentional or unintentional? An outsider will never be able to know for sure when intent for PA ACTUALLY entered the relationship.
> 
> But, one thing for sure, it certainly was predictable.


You haven't been in an EA. That self reflection is very difficult because you are emotionally engaged. It took me 6 months to stop defending my friend...and even now, it is difficult because no body fluids were exchanged, we didn't furiously text sex fantasies to one another, and we didn't talk about running away together. It seemed like a friendship.

So to us, it seemed very innocent...and fun. Being able to exchange confidences, the jokes, the stories, the conversations etc. In an EA, a spouse is NECESSARY to provide the reflection that you lack. As someone in an EA, you don't WANT the spouse to be right. You want a friend and that is all he/she seems to her. Which is what makes them so dangerous.

And I addressed the 'predictable' part already. Suffice to say, when you are EMOTIONALLY disconnected from the FUN, things are easier to predict.

This is not to excuse. It is to explain why I think a) she IS telling the truth about the EA and b) why I think it was a one off. 

Unless you assume she's a c0ck crazy person, who after one taste just threw away all her ethics so she could have thunderous orgasms.

To which there is only one response 



> She deserves the pain, in my opinion, because she is reprehensible.


You know what? This woman, who is talking about SUICIDE probably agrees with you...but this isn't remorse. Sure it isn't.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

Excellent points my friend.

Let me address my responses.

First, I do not absolutely claim that it is for sure a WS in a sexless M definitely thinks this way. I freely admit that it is possible my view is off in this case.

What I am saying is that LOGICALLY one point proceeds to the next.

It would be the exception, rather than the rule, that would not follow this hypothesis.

Of course it is POSSIBLE that this situation is one of those exceptions. But in the case of lacking absolute evidence, an outside observer should follow the logic of Occam's Razor.

Meaning that unless contravening evidence is presented, an observer should follow the conclusion presented by a logical evaluation of the facts.

I at no time claim to know for sure BFF is indeed gaslighting or I know her story must be partial, 

I say that based on the KNOWN evidence, this is the MOST likely truth.

If you thought I was insinuating more, then I apologize since that is a result of poor communication on my part.

As to your second point, I have to agree. I have never been in a true EA, because when I have either been confronted by a friend or, more rarely, had some personal epiphany, I have instantly taken action to withdraw my interactions to an appropriate level.

I am very careful and sensitive to the problem, as you have pointed out that we all must be, and I have been mature enough to make the changes necessary to fix the situation, including a case of drastically reducing the chances of interacting by eliminating to a bare minimum the occasions on which I would have to see a woman I really connected with.

In my way of thinking, I was being mature and responsible and respecting appropriate boundaries. 

It is not impossible, and mature people understand the necessity.

I do not judge others who fail at this actually. But I will not excuse the errors that occur as simple 'mistakes'. I tell others that they need to admit to themselves that they knew they were f'ing up when they didn't change their behavior.

I don't think they were evil or horrible people, Often they are good friends.

But I also won't give them a pass and in any way excuse or justify the choices they made.

JCD,

I do not think we are are distant from each other on this issue as you seem to think.


----------



## JCD

There is one main sticking point between us.

You think the wife is lying and telling the OP that she is incorrect.

I am making the assumption that my eyes on the ground (OP) who actually knows this person and can discuss things with her is actually useful as a witness. I assume that the wife is telling the truth.










A is people who flirt

B is people who cheat

C is obvious.

But you need a smaller circle in C which is people who flirt AND engage in multiple session affairs.

There is no 'evidence' that this is one of them...and substantial circumstantial evidence that it is not, unless you discount hibiscus.


----------



## Healer

I find it highly implausible they only had sex once. No matter how intensely she denies it.


----------



## Healer

Row Jimmy said:


> This is a great example of how serious the fallout of honesty can be as forgiveness isn't always going to be the end result.
> 
> People making the decision to tell on themselves or friends like Hisbiscus who know a secret need to keep that in mind before blowing up someone's life.
> 
> I'm not saying telling is wrong. I'm saying there is a cost and a very serious downside and you dont' know how bad it'll be until the bill comes due.
> 
> Not everyone gets the happy ending and rides off into the sunset like Dig and Regret.


Right, actions have consequences. That's what's so awful about cheating - innocent people get hurt. There is no riding off into the sunset with cheating. But a marriage that is a lie is no marriage at all - even if one spouse doesn't know it. It's a farce and shames the institution of marriage.


----------



## Healer

hibiscus said:


> This what my BBF said to me today:
> 
> They always knew that there was a sexual chemistry between them and it was years of flirting but nothing else. It was a time when her H was away overseas...she went to an office party and spoke with him all night. His W was at home pregnant. Add alcohol to it and they ended up having sex in the car.
> 
> She said she felt terribly guilty afterwards. So was he. They were both embarrassed by the situation and decided that he should move departments and not speak of it anymore. And to not socialise together as much etc. Guess once they had sex there was nothing else left.
> 
> There was no further meetings afterwards so it was clearly just a one off.
> 
> I believe her! She wouldn't lie to me anymore. What for? The damage is done. Her H wants to divorce it. What will she gain by lieing to me further?
> 
> Anyway to update . Her H went to the OM's house this morning to talk to the OM's wife. She then called my BBF and had a massive confrontation over the phone with her. I guessed this was going to happen as they have socialised at each other's houses in the past.
> 
> The OM is STILL denying it! Cant you believe that?


You know, my stbxww said the same thing. "Why would I lie now? What would I gain by lying further". It's simple - a ons doesn't seem as bad as a full fledged affair. She doesn't want you to think even worse of her than you already do. She's mitigating.

Why would she keep lying? Because she's a liar. That's what cheaters do.


----------



## Dyokemm

JCD,

You are correct that I think OP's BFF MIGHT be gaslighting because of the logical inconsistencies between her story and the facts we have been told.

I would not say that this is a certainty, and you may be correct that this is an exceptional case.

But you make an excellent point that OP believes her. 

That is a key piece of evidence that I will admit I probably did not give enough weight to. You are correct, she knows the woman and the situation the best, and if she believes the BFF's story, others should probably defer to that judgement.

The only caveat that I would add is that it is natural for us as people to want to believe close friends and family in situations like these. Our emotional connection to them makes it difficult to see them objectively, and we will be more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt.

We see it all the time here on TAM, where posters are told the WS is hiding something, but the BS doesn't want to believe the worst. 

They claim they know their spouse well and they extend them the benefit of the doubt, only to come back later and post that the members here were right all along, and that they have discovered the WS was lying horribly to them.

This doesn't happen out of stupidity. It is due to the emotional connection they have to the WS that makes them almost desperate to believe them because the alternative that they are lying manipulators is too painful to face.


----------



## clipclop2

If it was more than a ONS, why did she confess to Hibiscus now? Did she fear it would be exposed from another person and she wanted to build her story first?

I don't have trouble believing it was a ONS. In some ways, I can see someone carrying a lot more guilt for a ONS than a LTA. If you know you put yourself into a situation over a long period of time and let your arrogance prevent you from pulling back well before the stars aligned just right to allow the actual weakness to spill out, there is a lot to feel guilty about... 

Her H's ED may or may not be what it seems. Their sex life isn't known to Hibiscus or us. They may have a lot more to their story. We all know how complex sexual relationships are.

I would also think that if friend had a LTA she would have more "proof" for OMW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kezins

No. What a friend does in the bedroom isn't your business. Staying out of it is the best thing you can do.

Pretty unlikely it was a one time thing too. Someone who will do it once will certainly do it multiple times.


----------



## MattMatt

clipclop2 said:


> If it was more than a ONS, why did she confess to Hibiscus now? Did she fear it would be exposed from another person and she wanted to build her story first?
> 
> I don't have trouble believing it was a ONS. In some ways, I can see someone carrying a lot more guilt for a ONS than a LTA. If you know you put yourself into a situation over a long period of time and let your arrogance prevent you from pulling back well before the stars aligned just right to allow the actual weakness to spill out, there is a lot to feel guilty about...
> 
> Her H's ED may or may not be what it seems. Their sex life isn't known to Hibiscus or us. They may have a lot more to their story. We all know how complex sexual relationships are.
> 
> I would also think that if friend had a LTA she would have more "proof" for OMW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it was possibly a LTEA which went PA.

But the problem with EAs and PAs within a small group of people is that it can't stay a secret and will cause ripples or problems in the group.


----------



## clipclop2

Something that has really bothered me about this is the ferocity the BS responded with. Violence toward her. Toward the OM. Making this so huge. We know very few men who do this instinctively. They waffle more. 

I immediate wondered if he has cheated before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

clipclop2 said:


> Something that has really bothered me about this is the ferocity the BS responded with. Violence toward her. Toward the OM. Making this so huge. We know very few men who do this instinctively. They waffle more.
> 
> I immediate wondered if he has cheated before.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


clipclop2,

Your perception of how men typically react to finding out about their wive's adultery is skewed, maybe because you take the way most BHs on TAM react as the norm.

Throughout most of history, in patriarchal societies (which means, in most societies), the typical male reaction to a woman's infidelity has been extremely severe and often violent (toward both the WW and the AP). This is still the case in many places.

Our society, for better or worse, has made this very costly behavior for the BH and so the reaction of strong men (i.e., men who don't need the crutch of sites like TAM) is limited to the so-called "kick her to the curb" response.

Maybe the BFF's husband has cheated; maybe not. But the fact that he became very upset, threw a coffee cup at her and wanted to beat up the OM is a perfectly natural reaction.

Not all men are wussies.


----------



## tom67

carmen ohio said:


> clipclop2,
> 
> Your perception of how men typically react to finding out about their wive's adultery is skewed, maybe because you take the way most BHs on TAM react as the norm.
> 
> Throughout most of history, in patriarchal societies (which means, in most societies), the typical male reaction to a woman's infidelity has been extremely severe and often violent (toward both the WW and the AP). This is still the case in many places.
> 
> Our society, for better or worse, has made this very costly behavior for the BH and so the reaction of strong men (i.e., men who don't need the crutch of sites like TAM) is limited to the so-called "kick her to the curb" response.
> 
> Maybe the BFF's husband has cheated; maybe not. But the fact that he became very upset, threw a coffee cup at her and wanted to beat up the OM is a perfectly natural reaction.
> 
> Not all men are wussies.


Not all men are wussies, though they really try to legislate it today and emasculate thee male.


----------



## Hortensia

Violence toward the WW is not acceptable under the excuse of being cheated on. You have been cheated on, punish the WS by divorcing them and turning your back on them. NOT by violence. You can't force someone to love you or be faithful to you.

As for violence toward the AP, I only understand it if they're brazen and rub their "victory" in your face. Then yes, they deserve a good beating, although is not worth the further complications of being arrested, sued or whatever. And why give the wayward such satisfaction?


----------



## Squeakr

clipclop2 said:


> If it was more than a ONS, why did she confess to Hibiscus now? Did she fear it would be exposed from another person and she wanted to build her story first?



I think the answer to that lies possibly in the fact that the OM recently got promoted. Which could mean either he was starting to use his position of power to pressure the relationship and situation, or he was ending it and distancing himself from the situation. In either case, the grief, heartbreak, and pain that would be felt from a LTR ending was probably grinding away at her. These are how I see things playing out. I also agree that even when all is known it is still so much easier for the WS to gaslight it by down playing everything.


----------



## Jung_admirer

jay_gatsby said:


> I think people on this site is so dead set on exposure they lose site of the real issues here. I am not minimizing the cheating part, but please keep the poster's original thoughts in mind. She needs to decide if her friendship is worth the trouble of helping her friend though this difficult time. Obviously if she is not really her best friend, then I agree with the other posters about informing the husband. But please let the poster decide what is more important to her. And I still stand on the premise that it is her friend's responsibility to tell her husband not hers. She has the capacity to help her friend come to that conclusion, she does not need to do the dirty work. What are best friends for??? Everyone should sit back and ruminate about that before they answer!


I would go 'no-contact' with the wayward friend until she came clean to her husband. Both sides are right: (1) She has no right to share the secret that belongs to her wayward friend. (2) The wayward friend had no right to make her complicit with the PA.


----------



## clipclop2

Shouldn't such a strong man been better able to reign his wife in?

I love strong men. I like a bit of territorial caveman. 

But even strong men calm down and think strategically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jung_admirer

hibiscus said:


> Yes it does suck and yes I have wine.
> 
> It took her a year to tell me. I don't think it was in her plan to tell anyone but I repeatedly told her how much I admired her marriage, how loyal and wonderful she was to her husband, to never take that for granted because look what my partner did to me and look at how hurt I am and all the trust is gone blah blah blah.
> 
> She heard me say this many times and I guess she crumbled and had to speak the truth to me.
> 
> My delimma is that she swears its a one off. So if that's the case then why should I rock the boat even further? Isnt it bad enough that she has to hide this awful truth to her hubby? Isnt it bad enough that she is ashamed of herself?
> 
> If it was a full blown affair and she was purely confiding in me to boast about it then I would be compelled to tell her husband. It would be a no brainer for me.
> 
> But this is not the case. I don't believe she is going to cheat again


If you are going to keep this friend AND keep her secret, how could you be CERTAIN she will not stray again? Without question that would mean IC for the wayward friend. Know that this is a lot to ask of yourself, but perhaps the friendship is worth it.

What you believe about her future behavior is less relevant than her past behavior ... Wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Jung_admirer

JCD said:


> Sophisticated people understand a difference between murder and manslaughter.


Yeah, but you still get jail time (i.e. consequences) either way.


----------



## JCD

Jung_admirer said:


> Yeah, but you still get jail time (i.e. consequences) either way.


Yes. And I think her sentence is starting...and is pretty darned high...for a ONS.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Yes. And I think her sentence is starting...and is pretty darned high...for a ONS.


I agree but when you know the consequences for breaking a contract you should expect that exact outcome.

That said I honestly feel that her marriage has (had) a chance if she would just get her head out of her azz and start treating this as what it is, a massive betrayal by her against her husband. So far from what I've read other than coming clean (and we don't know the details on how that was accomplished) she has screwed up everything nicely. And still is. To me, as much as I would counsel against it, the violence her husband displayed shows that he is still emotionally connected with her. That connection could be something that is built upon and a reconciliation could be the outcome. But she is still blameshifting, protecting the OM (and her job) and refusing to accept responsibility for her actions. Even the circumstances of lack of sex that she seems to be using to justify her affair could be dealt with as part of a reconciliation. But right now she is more interested in trying to escape justice rather than to begin to atone for her transgressions. You say that her sentence is pretty darn high for a ONS. What she has done and is still doing is much more than a ONS isn't it?


----------



## Deejo

When someones life is crumbling around them they want to salvage what they can, in any way they can.

The friends world has literally just come apart. Her husband absolutely lost his sh!t, has been abusive and threatening to her and took a swing at the other man.

And yet, neither she nor Hibiscus has quite done enough in the eyes of some here.

Hibiscus is neck deep in reconciliation, and from my perspective has handled this situation and the triggers and baggage that comes with it remarkably well.

Cut both ladies some slack at this point, or by all means keep trying to dig another pound of flesh out of already tragic circumstances.


----------



## tom67

Deejo said:


> When someones life is crumbling around them they want to salvage what they can, in any way they can.
> 
> The friends world has literally just come apart. Her husband absolutely lost his sh!t, has been abusive and threatening to her and took a swing at the other man.
> 
> And yet, neither she nor Hibiscus has quite done enough in the eyes of some here.
> 
> Hibiscus is neck deep in reconciliation, and from my perspective has handled this situation and the triggers and baggage that comes with it remarkably well.
> 
> Cut both ladies some slack at this point, or by all means keep trying to dig another pound of flesh out of already tragic circumstances.


That's why I told hibiscus to turn off the cell phone while on vacation, she needed it.


----------



## bfree

Yes, as I suggested before Hibiscus needs to remove herself from this toxic situation before it threatens her own reconciliation. Hibiscus has done more than enough. Unfortunately her friend will just have to muddle through and hope things calm down and some reason can be injected into that mess. I still believe that her friend is making one mistake after another but since she's not here to advise......


----------



## Squeakr

Deejo said:


> When someones life is crumbling around them they want to salvage what they can, in any way they can.
> 
> The friends world has literally just come apart. Her husband absolutely lost his sh!t, has been abusive and threatening to her and took a swing at the other man.
> 
> And yet, neither she nor Hibiscus has quite done enough in the eyes of some here.
> 
> Hibiscus is neck deep in reconciliation, and from my perspective has handled this situation and the triggers and baggage that comes with it remarkably well.
> 
> Cut both ladies some slack at this point, or by all means keep trying to dig another pound of flesh out of already tragic circumstances.



I agree about cutting Hibiscus some slack, she has done everything she can. 

I don't agree that the BFF needs anything cut her way. She has betrayed, lied, trickle truthed, covered up, and defended and had an A with the OM (and has been doing do for several years), and as I have seen it, done nothing more than tell (even though she didn't want to and made it worse by dragging others into the fray with her) her H. How is this making strides and doing so much to fix things?

You are condemning the H for his actions, which are the reactions of a hurting person, even though we don't know the full story. So he took a swing at the OM (violence is generally never the solution) but do you know what exactly was said or if he was provoked by the OM? No! (and none of us do, including Hibiscus) Would/could this make a difference in your assessment if the OM had threatened and belittled the H, and he snapped and took a swing (does the justification in this case make it more acceptable)? We also don't know what the BFF has said or told the H, as she may have been just as abusive and threatening (I know that two wrongs don't make a right) in her telling of the A which resulted in the reaction of the H? 

I don't understand why some are so quick to defend a lying, cheating, betraying spouse in this situation? Yes the H snapped, but he didn't exactly do it for no reason, so cut him some slack as well. THe BFF has been very calculating and deceptive about how she has revealed her A. This is why I and others here believe that it is more than a ONS (or there is more to the story). The BFF brought up the ED like it was something major that played a part in this A. If that was the case, then why would it take so long to become a reason to cheat, when it had been there from the start of the M?


----------



## tom67

Squeakr said:


> I agree about cutting Hibiscus some slack, she has done everything she can.
> 
> I don't agree that the BFF needs anything cut her way. She has betrayed, lied, trickle truthed, covered up, and defended and had an A with the OM (and has been doing do for several years), and as I have seen it, done nothing more than tell (even though she didn't want to and made it worse by dragging others into the fray with her) her H. How is this making strides and doing so much to fix things?
> 
> You are condemning the H for his actions, which are the reactions of a hurting person, even though we don't know the full story. So he took a swing at the OM (violence is generally never the solution) but do you know what exactly was said or if he was provoked by the OM? No! (and none of us do, including Hibiscus) Would/could this make a difference in your assessment if the OM had threatened and belittled the H, and he snapped and took a swing (does the justification in this case make it more acceptable)? We also don't know what the BFF has said or told the H, as she may have been just as abusive and threatening (I know that two wrongs don't make a right) in her telling of the A which resulted in the reaction of the H?
> 
> I don't understand why some are so quick to defend a lying, cheating, betraying spouse in this situation? Yes the H snapped, but he didn't exactly do it for no reason, so cut him some slack as well. THe BFF has been very calculating and deceptive about how she has revealed her A. This is why I and others here believe that it is more than a ONS (or there is more to the story). The BFF brought up the ED like it was something major that played a part in this A. If that was the case, then why would it take so long to become a reason to cheat, when it had been there from the start of the M?


I think we will get much more of the story in september when hibiscus comes back and in my opinion she will find out that she was well, lied to. But I will wait.


----------



## Healer

JCD said:


> Yes. And I think her sentence is starting...and is pretty darned high...for a ONS.


I think we all know it's pretty unlikely it was a ONS, but regardless, why is that "high"? Even if it was a ONS, it was the ultimate betrayal. Just deserts, imo. You set your house on fire, you might just get burned.


----------



## Deejo

There is nothing else in this circumstance to DO.

She came clean. She f*cked another guy. Whether it was a year ago, or yesterday. She and he are now paying for that admission. 

There isn't going to be a reconciliation in this case. Even if they try. 

It's done.

I'm trying to understand the perspective of those here that do not think this woman has paid ... enough.
Life as they both knew it is over. That isn't enough?

After she has seen the response of her justifiably upset husband you want her to wade in and give the blow by blow, or say, "Oh honey, there's more I need to tell you."

Serious question. To what end? Other than the unsatisfied suspicion of folks on a message board.

There are patently people here who have a very big axe to grind with waywards. Nothing short of utter deconstruction and humiliation is acceptable.

And I don't find that acceptable.


----------



## bfree

Deejo said:


> There is nothing else in this circumstance to DO.
> 
> She came clean. She f*cked another guy. Whether it was a year ago, or yesterday. She and he are now paying for that admission.
> 
> There isn't going to be a reconciliation in this case. Even if they try.
> 
> It's done.
> 
> I'm trying to understand the perspective of those here that do not think this woman has paid ... enough.
> Life as they both knew it is over. That isn't enough?
> 
> After she has seen the response of her justifiably upset husband you want her to wade in and give the blow by blow, or say, "Oh honey, there's more I need to tell you."
> 
> Serious question. To what end? Other than the unsatisfied suspicion of folks on a message board.
> 
> There are patently people here who have a very big axe to grind with waywards. Nothing short of utter deconstruction and humiliation is acceptable.
> 
> And I don't find that acceptable.


Actually I would like to see a reconcilation in hibiscus' friend's case. There are threads she could post in where she wouldn't be treated with disrespect and would receive good advice. But alas she isn't here and hibiscus needs to work to strengthen her own relationship. I don't believe any marriage is beyond saving unless both spouses give up.


----------



## bfree

tom67 said:


> I think we will get much more of the story in september when hibiscus comes back and in my opinion she will find out that she was well, lied to. But I will wait.


Unless hibiscus' friend comes on TAM herself I don't want more of the story. She doesn't need to get any more involved than she already has. In fact she needs to back away.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> Unless hibiscus' friend comes on TAM herself I don't want more of the story. She doesn't need to get any more involved than she already has. In fact she needs to back away.


True nc for a month :iagree:


----------



## Squeakr

Deejo said:


> I'm trying to understand the perspective of those here that do not think this woman has paid ... enough.
> Life as they both knew it is over. That isn't enough?
> 
> After she has seen the response of her justifiably upset husband you want her to wade in and give the blow by blow, or say, "Oh honey, there's more I need to tell you."
> 
> Serious question. To what end? Other than the unsatisfied suspicion of folks on a message board.
> 
> There are patently people here who have a very big axe to grind with waywards. Nothing short of utter deconstruction and humiliation is acceptable.
> 
> And I don't find that acceptable.


What she needs to do is whatever her H needs and wants. Either that or just move on with her life and let the H be, especially if that is what he wants. 

The BFF claims that she wants and loves her H and their marriage, but she needs to let him cool off and also let him know that she is willing to do whatever he needs/ wants/ desires to make things better. That M is over, you are correct, but her rushing to work the next day and defending her OM are not ways to show that she is remorseful and regretful and that is what she needs to do.

She need to apologize to Hibiscus for her antics, accusations, and for dragging her into this. Just because her life is over, doesn't mean that she doesn't need to atone for what she has donor. This is not a wipe the slate clean and move on situation. This is generally why WS are looked unfavorably upon TAM, as they generally have the sense of entitlement that the deed was done, it is out there now, and in the past. Time to move on and let it go. Their needs to be some sort of atonement so that people can learn and grow from it. Without that, the cheater is pretty much doomed to repeat the process. 

For an example, I know this is not the same situation, but when my kids were younger, if they took the chips or candy and ate it without my consent, even when they were punished/ reprimanded afterward, they only remember the good taste of the snack and have repeated the same hidden process since. However when they touched the hot fireplace screen and burnt their hand (even though we warned them prior and comforted them and nursed the wounds afterward), the pain was all they really remember and have never done so again (to this day my oldest, 12, remembers waffle hands from when she was 1.5). When the deed is not accompanied by some sort of atonement, then it is more easily repeated.


----------



## larry.gray

Jung_admirer said:


> Yeah, but you still get jail time (i.e. consequences) either way.


Only if you get caught


----------



## larry.gray

Deejo said:


> There is nothing else in this circumstance to DO.
> 
> She came clean. She f*cked another guy. Whether it was a year ago, or yesterday. She and he are now paying for that admission.
> 
> There isn't going to be a reconciliation in this case. Even if they try.


I'm not 100% certain... I've been surprised at some that do reconcile. Maybe a 99.5% chance that they don't.


----------



## olwhatsisname

BRAGGADOCIA. i AM STILL/ HOT/ ATTRACTIVE,ETC.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> I agree but when you know the consequences for breaking a contract you should expect that exact outcome.
> 
> That said I honestly feel that her marriage has (had) a chance if she would just get her head out of her azz and start treating this as what it is, a massive betrayal by her against her husband. So far from what I've read other than coming clean (and we don't know the details on how that was accomplished) she has screwed up everything nicely. And still is. To me, as much as I would counsel against it, the violence her husband displayed shows that he is still emotionally connected with her. That connection could be something that is built upon and a reconciliation could be the outcome. But she is still blameshifting, protecting the OM (and her job) and refusing to accept responsibility for her actions. Even the circumstances of lack of sex that she seems to be using to justify her affair could be dealt with as part of a reconciliation. But right now she is more interested in trying to escape justice rather than to begin to atone for her transgressions. You say that her sentence is pretty darn high for a ONS. What she has done and is still doing is much more than a ONS isn't it?


I disagree and don't understand what more she can do.

Everything I read about 'protecting her job' was predicated upon the lie to keep her marriage. She wanted to 'protect' the OM...oh...I'm sorry. She wanted to keep her HUSBAND from losing his sh*t...just like he DID! That is had the subsidiary effect of protecting the marriage of a NEWBORN BABY'S FAMILY had NOTHING to do with anything.

Dude...she's an infertile woman. Do you have ANY idea how...obsessed they get about kids and protecting them? She already screwed him. She can't change that. MAYBE she can keep that kid from looking at being with a single mother with a fired dad.

There are aspects to this that really complicate the situation more than 'hur hur...she cheat and want to keep loverboy around while making hubby stupid ****'.

No bfree...you aren't being like that exactly. I think you are being a bit chintzy with the credit.

If hubby is hitting and divorcing her, yeah, she SHOULD be protecting her job. She wanted to avoid a whole slew of bad crap happening in like (her job, his job, his marriage, the kids' marriage, her husband being up on charges) that she HESITATED at that final revelation...but she did it anyway!

And everything she feared is coming true. Huh.

Maybe they can fix it. Doesn't matter much. They will probably never adopt. I don't care what anyone on the board thinks: I can still be sympathetic to the emotional toll that is occurring to this woman WHILE knowing she brought it on herself.


----------



## JCD

Squeakr said:


> You are condemning the H for his actions, which are the reactions of a hurting person, even though we don't know the full story. So he took a swing at the OM (violence is generally never the solution) but do you know what exactly was said or if he was provoked by the OM? No! (and none of us do, including Hibiscus) Would/could this make a difference in your assessment if the OM had threatened and belittled the H, and he snapped and took a swing (does the justification in this case make it more acceptable)? We also don't know what the BFF has said or told the H, as she may have been just as abusive and threatening (I know that two wrongs don't make a right) in her telling of the A which resulted in the reaction of the H?
> 
> I don't understand why some are so quick to defend a lying, cheating, betraying spouse in this situation? Yes the H snapped, but he didn't exactly do it for no reason, so cut him some slack as well. THe BFF has been very calculating and deceptive about how she has revealed her A. This is why I and others here believe that it is more than a ONS (or there is more to the story). The BFF brought up the ED like it was something major that played a part in this A. If that was the case, then why would it take so long to become a reason to cheat, when it had been there from the start of the M?


That is the whole point. Either you cut BOTH of them some slack for acting badly in a moment of passion (whether lust or wrath), or you cut neither any slack.

What calculation? She flirted with a guy, failed miserably, and realizing that, drew back as much as possible without being BLATANTLY obvious about it. And why was that calculation made? Because she made a mistake and she loves her husband.

Why did he take a swing at that guy? Because he loves (loved?) his wife.

But it's laudable in one and not the other.


----------



## JCD

Deejo said:


> There is nothing else in this circumstance to DO.
> 
> She came clean. She f*cked another guy. Whether it was a year ago, or yesterday. She and he are now paying for that admission.
> 
> There isn't going to be a reconciliation in this case. Even if they try.
> 
> It's done.
> 
> I'm trying to understand the perspective of those here that do not think this woman has paid ... enough.
> Life as they both knew it is over. That isn't enough?
> 
> After she has seen the response of her justifiably upset husband you want her to wade in and give the blow by blow, or say, "Oh honey, there's more I need to tell you."
> 
> Serious question. To what end? Other than the unsatisfied suspicion of folks on a message board.
> 
> There are patently people here who have a very big axe to grind with waywards. Nothing short of utter deconstruction and humiliation is acceptable.
> 
> And I don't find that acceptable.


I recall a similar dynamic on another thread.

This man was stuck trying to catch a very wiley wife who was cheating on him. She didn't use her phone...she drove and picked up the OM who was ducking down in her car so the neighbors never saw him, they never texted and she had a burner phone.

It took the fake 'business trip' and a PI for him to get the goods on her.

That isn't the important point however. This is for the thread watchers to recall that thread.

A lot of people were pushing and PUSHING and *PUSHNG* this agenda that she wasn't just cheating...she was cheating with MULTIPLE men in gangbang orgies...and one lout even had the temerity to suggest she was making porn movies on the sly. Seriously!

With...as much evidence as we had here. Les even. 

What does that say about the mindset of some of the people here? Why are they pushing not only the REAL sins but trying to characterize it as FAR WORSE?

How about something weird...like dealing with the problem AS THE WOMAN DESCRIBED IT? If we get new facts, THEN we change our advice. Jumping the gun just feeds a certain negative dynamic...like a bunch of old ladies.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> Unless hibiscus' friend comes on TAM herself I don't want more of the story. She doesn't need to get any more involved than she already has. In fact she needs to back away.





tom67 said:


> True nc for a month :iagree:


You mean abandon a woman whose life is crashing around her head after following the advice she gave her.

Huh.

I get where hibiscus is having a hard time of it, but I think she might see that even the WS has her own negative emotions and has a distinct sense of loss...and that might help her own efforts.

She might also see that while cheating is NEVER justified...that maybe issues which were never addressed in the relationship might need some mending to HELP the relationship.

But abandoning her like that? There is a term for that. Friend isn't one of them. Acquaintance maybe. Well wishing stranger.


----------



## bfree

JCD,

You really need to gain some perspective.


----------



## Hortensia

I'd say, JCD has a broad perspective. It's the rest of the people who - admit it - want the OP"s friend life destroyed, rejoice in knowing she followed the advice you all gave, (for your own satisfaction not that you really care), and now want her to be alone and hibiscus not to speak to her anymore. 

And no, I don't condone what she's done, see my earlier posts, and I can understand why her H won't R, but come on guys. What do you want now, her to kill herself? maybe that would be enough of a punishment to soothe some bitterness here. Talk about perspective...


----------



## jay_gatsby

Hortensia said:


> I'd say, JCD has a broad perspective. It's the rest of the people who - admit it - want the OP"s friend life destroyed, rejoice in knowing she followed the advice you all gave, (for your own satisfaction not that you really care), and now want her to be alone and hibiscus not to speak to her anymore.
> 
> And no, I don't condone what she's done, see my earlier posts, and I can understand why her H won't R, but come on guys. What do you want now, her to kill herself? maybe that would be enough of a punishment to soothe some bitterness here. Talk about perspective...


:iagree: too many bitter people here to get a balanced perspective.


----------



## Hortensia

jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: too many bitter people here to get a balanced perspective.


Yep. Cheating is the "worst crime" ever, not justified by anything. But violence can be condone and justified. If you're betrayed, you're entitled to cast stones and even become physically violent. 

It's not only the WS who are selfish choosing to cheat. The Bses also prove a lot of selfishness thinking it's all about them and their entitlement.

Speaking as someone who knows well both sides so is unbiased.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: too many bitter people here to get a balanced perspective.


The bitterness exists on all sides including JCD. It's actually funny when people only see it in the "divorce" and "scorched earth" crowd.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: too many bitter people here to get a balanced perspective.


So I assume that you and Hortensia agree with JCD that hibiscus should endanger her own reconciliation by becoming more involved in her friend's mess? Really? Didn't you already see how much this was hurting her? Didn't you see the triggers she was experiencing? And I assume that you also agree with JCD that if she doesn't risk everything in her life she isn't being a good friend? Then you both need to gain a little perspective as well.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: too many bitter people here to get a balanced perspective.


I agree that many posters here that have been adversely affected by infidelity can be less than empathetic when it comes to the WS. But calling them bitter is insulting. Our experiences make us who we are. A BS didn't ask to be betrayed and more than likely dealt with it the best they could. Part of having perspective is being able to see through the eyes of another. When you throw out a statement like this it just shows that you have no more perspective than those that you call bitter.


----------



## jay_gatsby

bfree said:


> I agree that many posters here that have been adversely affected by infidelity can be less than empathetic when it comes to the WS. But calling them bitter is insulting. Our experiences make us who we are. A BS didn't ask to be betrayed and more than likely dealt with it the best they could. Part of having perspective is being able to see through the eyes of another. When you throw out a statement like this it just shows that you have no more perspective than those that you call bitter.


Ok, bitter was a wrong choice of words. Biased is more what I was looking for. I am sorry if I offended anyone.


----------



## bfree

jay_gatsby said:


> Ok, bitter was a wrong choice of words. Biased is more what I was looking for. I am sorry if I offended anyone.


Aren't we all biased? My experiences are different from your experiences therefore we cannot share all of the same viewpoints. The way I see it TAM is such a great resource precisely because of all the posters that come here from all walks of life. Some posters are more extreme when giving adivce and some are more tempered. But all are valuable in their own way. I appreciate all viewpoints even when they do not align with my own. My point in saying that JCD need to gain some perspective is that he seems to be saying that hibiscus is not a friend if she doesn't readily welcome excess triggering and risk her own reconciliation for her friend. That to me is not reasonable given the circumstances. Her friend has made a mess of things and is reaping the rewards so to speak. Its unfortunate but I don't think hibiscus risking the most valuable thing in her life is going to help matters. If her friend should come here I would immediately steer her to the less volitile parts of TAM and would give her the best advice I can offer. Short of that she needs to muddle through as best she can and hibiscus needs to continue down her own path to happiness.


----------



## JCD

Things seem to be getting a bit overheated.

First off, I am just fine with my perspective, thank you. I can point you to threads where I spoke rather harshly to both waywards and betrayed spouses. One of the most recent ones just disappeared recently.

Second...'you break it, you bought it'. She gave advice to her friend (Go tell your husband...it will start the healing and you owe it to him) Well...her friend took her advice and is destroyed. What is some of the advice here? "Oops...well you deserve it...gotta go!"

That seems moral cowardice. HOWEVER...I will admit that hibiscus was forced into this issue by the friends disclosure. So...IF she can't stand helping her friend without self destruction (the Constitution is not a suicide pact) than she owes her friend a frank and sympathetic conversation which should go something like this.

"I grieve with you about what you are going through. It is so close to the mark for me, that all the things that I thought I had a handle on in my own relationship are now crashing down around my ears again. I WANT to help you...I just can't. I'm still emotionally off balance with what (made up name) Greg did to me. It would be the wounded trying to heal the wounded. I am still your friend, but I can't be here right now if I want to save my relationship with Greg."

If things aren't as grievous as that...yes, I think she should help. Discomfort is not suicide. Only she can gauge that.

Everyone is your friend when you are drinking. It's the girl who holds your hair out of the toilet when you are puking that is the REAL friend.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Things seem to be getting a bit overheated.
> 
> First off, I am just fine with my perspective, thank you. I can point you to threads where I spoke rather harshly to both waywards and betrayed spouses. One of the most recent ones just disappeared recently.
> 
> *I value your posts and I think you bring a needed alternative viewpoint in many cases but in this case I believe you have a blindspot.*
> 
> Second...'you break it, you bought it'. She gave advice to her friend (Go tell your husband...it will start the healing and you owe it to him) Well...her friend took her advice and is destroyed. What is some of the advice here? "Oops...well you deserve it...gotta go!"
> 
> *Actually I believe that hibiscus said to her friend that she would have to end their friendship due to the deception she was continuing to carry out against her husband. This was due to her own situation and the fact that she occasionally socialized with her husband and knew it would be awkward to say the least. I don't believe that she said "tell your husband and the healing can begin." That seems to be a figment of your imagination. Hibiscus was extremely surprised that her friend actually came clean as she never expected she would.*
> 
> That seems moral cowardice. HOWEVER...I will admit that hibiscus was forced into this issue by the friends disclosure. So...IF she can't stand helping her friend without self destruction (the Constitution is not a suicide pact) than she owes her friend a frank and sympathetic conversation which should go something like this.
> 
> "I grieve with you about what you are going through. It is so close to the mark for me, that all the things that I thought I had a handle on in my own relationship are now crashing down around my ears again. I WANT to help you...I just can't. I'm still emotionally off balance with what (made up name) Greg did to me. It would be the wounded trying to heal the wounded. I am still your friend, but I can't be here right now if I want to save my relationship with Greg."
> 
> *I believe that this conversation did take place before her vacation started. At least that was my understanding.*
> 
> If things aren't as grievous as that...yes, I think she should help. Discomfort is not suicide. Only she can gauge that.
> 
> Everyone is your friend when you are drinking. It's the girl who holds your hair out of the toilet when you are puking that is the REAL friend.
> 
> *In this case hibiscus and her friend are both puking in their respective toilets since they are both dealing with their own infidelity issues (couldn't you have come up with a better analogy...gross.) So hibiscus is going to find herself having a difficult time holding her friend's hair when she is dealing with her own sickness...yes?*


In point of fact I am not heated at all. I'm just trying to clarify a few things.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Hibiscus told her friend that she could no longer socialize with them while her friend kept this secret. No one put a gun to this woman's head. And hibiscus never talked of "abandoning" her friend once the fallout began. She acknowledged she needed to step back from the situation as it was having detrimental effects on her personally. I do not get the impression at all that she will "abandon" her frie d. There is only so much support she can give her friend. It was a bad decision for her frie d to carry out an affair, but it's not fair to believe that hibiscus should shoulder some of the responsibility of cleaning up her friends mistakes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

JCD said:


> Second...'you break it, you bought it'. She gave advice to her friend (Go tell your husband...it will start the healing and you owe it to him) Well...her friend took her advice and is destroyed. What is some of the advice here? "Oops...well you deserve it...gotta go!"


Life is a journey, not a single moment or a single week. OP's friend indeed did a lot of damage to her life. She did it over a period of time with the EA and then the PA. She did not destroy anything at the moment she confessed to her husband.

Now she is on a journey, a trajectory, due to her infidelity. She is not at a destination, nor is her husband.

Ultimately, the best outcome occurs for everyone involved when the truth is known.  Whatever occurs, barring homicide of some sort, will be the better outcome than had the secret been kept indefinitely.

The BS will come to appreciate knowing the truth even though it is hurtful. He will make an informed decision on how to go forward with his life. This is a good outcome!

The WW has been relieved of the burden of the lies and deceptions. She is out from under the constant worry of being outed. She does not deserve the benefits of the marriage while continuing the lies and deceptions, which are imo a continuing infidelity. Whatever negatives accrue to her due to the infidelity are her just desserts. Living with honor going forward is better than living with the continuing lies.

Yup, today sucks being both of them. In the future they are better off with the truth being known.


----------



## Squeakr

JCD said:


> That is the whole point. Either you cut BOTH of them some slack for acting badly in a moment of passion (whether lust or wrath), or you cut neither any slack.
> 
> What calculation? She flirted with a guy, failed miserably, and realizing that, drew back as much as possible without being BLATANTLY obvious about it. And why was that calculation made? Because she made a mistake and she loves her husband.
> 
> Why did he take a swing at that guy? Because he loves (loved?) his wife.
> 
> But it's laudable in one and not the other.


Between you and Hortensia, I am not sure why you think that the H is such an evil person. He did something when affected by pain, and he is paying for it. I agree violence is not the answer. Where is the entitlement that is being referred to that the BS is expecting? All I see is that a BS is expecting that the their Spouse held true to their vows and words. I still don't see how that compares so equally to a multi-year EA and at least one time PA. In a PA she went to the location (OM's car) with the intention of one thing having sex (it was a decision and not a mistake). With the H, no one knows if he went with the intention of violence or not.

As to the calculations, I stated her calculations were in her revealing of the A (although they also apply in the way she handled the A as well). She planned what and when she was going to say and how much she was going to reveal. Those actions are nothing but calculated actions. I don't think it is fair to defend her when she has been lying throughout the entire thing and trickle trotting what we know. Sue me for being a realist just as cheaters are liars and minimizers.


----------



## chillymorn

her friend got what she deserved!

listen she cheated (says it was one and done) pretty bad infraction to most marriages.She was planning to adopt and the man who she supposedly loved was going to be responsible for the adopted child/children for a lifetime.

that's no small potato's. if he found out later then instead of her life being ruined there would have been a whole family ruined.

Now lets talk about her ruined life. Is it really ruined? yes its a set back but most likely she will get over it and find someone else.

the question is did she lean for her mistake? Or will she cheat and try to take advantage of the next vict.....man.


----------



## hibiscus

Hi I got back today. I will try and read the new posts when I have more time. Just wanted to give a quick update with what's happened while I have been away.

Just spoke with my BBF and here is the update ( the chaos continues!):-(

Earlier in the week my BBF received a letter from work stating that she has been suspended because of gross misconduct! A claim was made by the OM and she is to not have any contact with him whatsoever. Her first interview is this Friday.( God only knows what lies he has concocted to save his skin. Bet he has done this to "prove his innocence" to his wife.

She later receives a visit from the police who were enquiring about her H's whereabouts. Someone had slashed the OM' s tyres and scratched the sides of his expensive car.The H needs to go to the police station to make a statement

In the meantime my BBF is on anti depressants and is on suicide watch by her family. She is so so so regretful of what she has done. She can't stop crying but her H isn't listening to her. He is still talking about separation and D.

I just received a letter off the Children's Services asking if I would write a reference towards their application to adopt a child...

It's truly shocking how life can turn 360 in a matter of weeks.

On a plus note, I had a great holiday with my partner. I feel very positive with my R and I am booking my wedding date this month for next year August.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Do you think she is so distraught that she has done so much harm to her H , or more that her own situation is so awful? I'd think its more self-pity than anything. Maybe both. But to the important news , congrats on the the wedding plans. Good stuff!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

hibiscus said:


> On a plus note, I had a great holiday with my partner. I feel very positive with my R and I am booking my wedding date this month for next year August.


Glad you guys had a good time :smthumbup:


----------



## hibiscus

It's a bit of both. But believe me she is remorseful. She is taking all my advice on how to rebuild her H's trust but I can't see him wanting to R anyway.


----------



## hibiscus

My BBF isn't a serial cheater. She won't be cheating again after this.


----------



## Whip Morgan

I see. You're being a good friend to her by offering advice. Hopefully she is seeking help on her own in addition to listening to you. And I do hope that she makes it out at her job okay. However, her H may view her position as an obstacle. Would she be willing to find a new job as part of her efforts to change herself ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> I see. You're being a good friend to her by offering advice. Hopefully she is seeking help on her own in addition to listening to you. And I do hope that she makes it out at her job okay. However, her H may view her position as an obstacle. Would she be willing to find a new job as part of her efforts to change herself ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she is currently suspended and may lose her job anyway.But yes she says she would change jobs as she doesn't want to be in the same building with the OM.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> On a plus note, I had a great holiday with my partner. I feel very positive with my R and I am booking my wedding date this month for next year August.


As sad as I am about your friend this is what I was praying for.


----------



## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> Well she is currently suspended and may lose her job anyway.But yes she says she would change jobs as she doesn't want to be in the same building with the OM.


What do they claim was her gross misconduct?

He is as guilty as she. Does she have any emails, texts, etc that has any proof that he was right in this with her?

She should see an attorney. If she is fired and he is not, she might have a case. Even her being suspended and not him is questionable.

AT the very least an attorney might be able to get the company to drop all of this from her employment record and get her a severance package.

I guess she has found out what the OM is made of.


----------



## Jasel

I wonder how the husband is doing. Sounds like he's gone off the rails.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Her H likely views this as a long-term affair. Made worse by her lies and deflections of just "being friends." Even if she truly only had one physical encounter, shehad an EA with him for a long enough time that the H picked up on. Made worse when she had her H socialize with this OM. Not only betray him, but rub his face in it. Disgusting g stuff that she is paying the price for. However: between you and her family , she has a support system in her journey to change into a healthier, more honest person. I hope her H has good friends he can lean on for support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Do you think that her husband vandalized the OM"s vehicles?

Is there any proof or just accusations?


----------



## 3putt

EleGirl said:


> What do they claim was her gross misconduct?
> 
> He is as guilty as she. Does she have any emails, texts, etc that has any proof that he was right in this with her?
> 
> She should see an attorney. If she is fired and he is not, she might have a case. Even her being suspended and not him is questionable.
> 
> AT the very least an attorney might be able to get the company to drop all of this from her employment record and get her a severance package.
> 
> I guess she has found out what the OM is made of.


I agree with this completely. It she were to take a fierce reactive stance to her employer, and to the OM's wife as well, it just may be the sign of true remorse her BH needs to see to have any chance at recovery. No guarantees of course, and just a thought.

I sure as hell wouldn't lay down for this though.

Feeling bad for BH. I know this rage all too well.


----------



## EleGirl

3putt said:


> I agree with this completely. It she were to take a fierce reactive stance to her employer, and to the OM's wife as well, it just may be the sign of true remorse her BH needs to see to have any chance at recovery. No guarantees of course, and just a thought.
> 
> I sure as hell wouldn't lay down for this though.
> 
> Feeling bad for BH. I know this rage all too well.


Yep it sounds like the OM is going after her and her husband in full assault. 

If there is no proof that the husband vandalized the vehicle I would not believe the husband did it. Instead I'd turn around work with husband to get a restraining order, get an attorney and see about putting all of the evidence forward to shut down the OM. then his wife will see what he's up to.

And example of this was that years ago the OW of a man I know went to the police and accused him of stalking her. she did this about a year after he had broken off the affair. So he had not seen nor talked her in a year. Her new boyfriend was pushing her to do it for the obvious reasons. She concocted all kinds of lies in a police report.

But my friend had evidence that she and her boyfriend were lying to the police. He got an attorney, with the help of the attorney revealed his evidence to the police. His wife actually helped with this because she had evidence and she had been with him at family gatherings at some of the times when the exOW claimed he was at her place stalking her. After investigation the police determined that the exOW lied. Charges were dropped. 

Unfortunately the exOW was not charged with making false accusations. But my friend and his wife ended up with the anti stalking protection order against the exOW and her boyfriend.

Take a strong defense is the best the BFF and husband can do right now.


----------



## Lmodel

I know this situation very well, my wife had an affair and when it ended she confided in a girlfriend who was very close to us both. It was 10 months before I found out and to say I'm disappointed with this "friend" is an understatement. I think she should have given my wife an ultimatum, you've got a month to tell him or I will.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> Hi I got back today. I will try and read the new posts when I have more time. Just wanted to give a quick update with what's happened while I have been away.
> 
> Just spoke with my BBF and here is the update ( the chaos continues!):-(
> 
> Earlier in the week my BBF received a letter from work stating that she has been suspended because of gross misconduct! A claim was made by the OM and she is to not have any contact with him whatsoever. Her first interview is this Friday.( God only knows what lies he has concocted to save his skin. Bet he has done this to "prove his innocence" to his wife.
> 
> She later receives a visit from the police who were enquiring about her H's whereabouts. Someone had slashed the OM' s tyres and scratched the sides of his expensive car.The H needs to go to the police station to make a statement


She needs to get an attorney NOW. The longer she waits, the more guilty she will look to the company. Nope, office politics is not a courtroom. HR works by first come first serve in the companies I worked at. The second party has to fight, uphill, to get the truth out. I know she is depressed and everything is ugly, but contrary to "LAWS" this will follow her around when she looks for another professional job. She doesn't want to be labelled or, if she is, a nice settlement package will make the transition easier.

Sounds like he is trying to gaslight the wife and say your friend is crazy and they both are stalkers. As hurtful as it will be to her husband, tell her to gather any emails, phone records, saved texts, receipts, letters, gifts cards and anything she saved from the affair and go talk to an employment lawyer.


----------



## EleGirl

Lmodel said:


> I know this situation very well, my wife had an affair and when it ended she confided in a girlfriend who was very close to us both. It was 10 months before I found out and to say I'm disappointed with this "friend" is an understatement. I think she should have given my wife an ultimatum, you've got a month to tell him or I will.


Did the friend encourage the affair? Did encourage that your wife tell you?


----------



## hibiscus

EleGirl said:


> What do they claim was her gross misconduct?
> 
> He is as guilty as she. Does she have any emails, texts, etc that has any proof that he was right in this with her?
> 
> She should see an attorney. If she is fired and he is not, she might have a case. Even her being suspended and not him is questionable.
> 
> AT the very least an attorney might be able to get the company to drop all of this from her employment record and get her a severance package.
> 
> I guess she has found out what the OM is made of.


Sexual harassment. But she will find out more in the interview. 

She has no texts nor emails to show.


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> Her H likely views this as a long-term affair. Made worse by her lies and deflections of just "being friends." Even if she truly only had one physical encounter, shehad an EA with him for a long enough time that the H picked up on. Made worse when she had her H socialize with this OM. Not only betray him, but rub his face in it. Disgusting g stuff that she is paying the price for. However: between you and her family , she has a support system in her journey to change into a healthier, more honest person. I hope her H has good friends he can lean on for support.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It must be a nightmare for him. I understand why he would want a divorce. He is staying with friends but wants to rent an apartment.

He wants to sell their house and separate from her.


----------



## hibiscus

EleGirl said:


> Do you think that her husband vandalized the OM"s vehicles?
> 
> Is there any proof or just accusations?


The police are not saying that there is proof but he probably did. Just seems too coincidental. But the H is not admitting it either.

But then again its a Porsche 911 and people could have done this damage out of sheer spite. Happens a lot in that area.


----------



## hibiscus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She needs to get an attorney NOW. The longer she waits, the more guilty she will look to the company. Nope, office politics is not a courtroom. HR works by first come first serve in the companies I worked at. The second party has to fight, uphill, to get the truth out. I know she is depressed and everything is ugly, but contrary to "LAWS" this will follow her around when she looks for another professional job. She doesn't want to be labelled or, if she is, a nice settlement package will make the transition easier.
> 
> Sounds like he is trying to gaslight the wife and say your friend is crazy and they both are stalkers. As hurtful as it will be to her husband, tell her to gather any emails, phone records, saved texts, receipts, letters, gifts cards and anything she saved from the affair and go talk to an employment lawyer.


Unfortunately she has no written evidence. It wasn't that kind of EA. They flirted every time they met up but that's about it.


----------



## workindad

Any chance one or both of them Would be willing to visit tam? It may be helpful to them. 

Sounds like her om is throwing her under the bus. She's certainly not the first nor will she be the last.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

I dont know if TAM would be the best place for the WS. She should probably just stick to IC, her immediate support system, and a lawyer. The husband on the other hand might benefit from TAM.


----------



## The Middleman

workindad said:


> Any chance one or both of them Would be willing to visit tam? It may be helpful to them.
> 
> Sounds like her om is throwing her under the bus. She's certainly not the first nor will she be the last.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the BFF's husband is doing what he needs to do. TAM is the last place he should be.


----------



## seasalt

If her husband is not giving her the opportunity to show him her remorse directly, she should do whatever she can to support him in his travail with the authorities. She should take any unilateral steps she can to be a good item in his life. That also means sticking up for his actions at her job interview this week even if it means losing a job she should give up anyway.

Take the positives you are feeling about your relationship to give yourself the stamina to be a good friend to one who needs one.

Seasalt


----------



## jay_gatsby

The Middleman said:


> I think the BFF's husband is doing what he needs to do. TAM is the last place he should be.


:iagree: This site will not help the husband with his grief and anger. He already is doing what he feels is right for him. The BFF will get torn to pieces if she comes here.


----------



## jay_gatsby

seasalt said:


> If her husband is not giving her the opportunity to show him her remorse directly, she should do whatever she can to support him in his travail with the authorities. She should take any unilateral steps she can to be a good item in his life. That also means sticking up for his actions at her job interview this week even if it means losing a job she should give up anyway.
> 
> Take the positives you are feeling about your relationship to give yourself the stamina to be a good friend to one who needs one.
> 
> Seasalt


I realize she was in the wrong in the first place, but if her husband is not willing to R, how would doing this help her? This is only going to martyr her. She should do what she thinks is best for her moving forward. Her husband was wrong if he did indeed slash the tire, even if we all think he was justified.


----------



## clipclop2

perhaps hibiscus would consider having this thread deleted and then inviting her friend to this site . that would relieve some of the burden on her . 

however enough people of read this thread and would identify the woman and enter into the thread with preconceived notions and their minds already made up .

in the meantime this thread going on and on about the things we know nothing of could be considered a wake up call. perhaps many here may want to examine their obsession with infidelity . it might be time for more than just hibiscus to step back .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Aerith

hibiscus said:


> Unfortunately she has no written evidence. It wasn't that kind of EA. They flirted every time they met up but that's about it.


What a horrible mess... 

Probably too high price to pay for ONS and flirting... 

IMO I really doubt there was EA at all if there was no any other communications between them except flirting at work.


----------



## Jasel

clipclop2 said:


> perhaps hibiscus would consider having this thread deleted and then inviting her friend to this site . that would relieve some of the burden on her .
> 
> however enough people of read this thread and would identify the woman and enter into the thread with preconceived notions and their minds already made up .
> 
> in the meantime this thread going on and on about the things we know nothing of could be considered a wake up call. perhaps many here may want to examine their obsession with infidelity . it might be time for more than just hibiscus to step back .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After what I saw in the Sparkles70 thread I really don't think there's anything that TAM would have to offer bff at this point even if she did come here. 

It sounds like she's been dealt plenty of consequences. I have a VERY hard time believing that woman would think of cheating again. Her marriage is most likely done, she's most likely going to lose her job, the adoption and family she was hoping for are most likely gone, her OM and husband are both washing their hands of her in pretty hurtful ways, etc. The only thing she's going to get here, especially in this section, are a bunch of people trying to psychoanalyze her, get her to psychoanalyze herself, and try to squeeze even more regret/remorse out of her. I think family, friends, and counseling can do more for bff than anything anyone on TAM could outside of maybe some helpful book recommendations.


----------



## lisab0105

Jasel said:


> After what I saw in the Sparkles70 thread I really don't think there's anything that TAM would have to offer bff at this point even if she did come here.
> 
> It sounds like she's been dealt plenty of consequences. I have a VERY hard time believing that woman would think of cheating again. Her marriage is most likely done, she's most likely going to lose her job, the adoption and family she was hoping for are most likely gone, her OM and husband are both washing their hands of her in pretty hurtful ways, etc. The only thing she's going to get here, especially in this section, are a bunch of people trying to psychoanalyze her, get her to psychoanalyze herself, and try to squeeze even more regret/remorse out of her. I think family, friends, and counseling can do more for bff than anything anyone on TAM could outside of maybe some helpful book recommendations.


I agree, I hope her BFF nor her BFF's husband ever finds TAM. Talk about more harm than good.


----------



## Truthseeker1

lisab0105 said:


> I agree, I hope her BFF nor her BFF's husband ever finds TAM. Talk about more harm than good.



I have to agree...They both need professional counseling....this story once again shows the absolute utter destructiveness of infidelity...even in remorse the WS can't control the continuing fallout of the affair...in the end it is just really sad...


----------



## Healer

It's always puzzling how baffled and blown away WS's are when they reap the rewards of their disgusting behavior. It's kind of like jamming your hand down the drain into the garburator and being horrified that your hand is a mangled, bloody mess. "I can't believe THAT happened!!!"


----------



## bandit.45

jay_gatsby said:


> :iagree: This site will not help the husband with his grief and anger. He already is doing what he feels is right for him. *The BFF will get torn to pieces if she comes here*.


True. Back early last year when I joined we had alot of veterans (Morituri, Beowulf, and others) who offered a more balanced and moderate attitude toward the waywards who would come on looking for advice. They were a counterbalance to the more wolfish members who were agenda driven and who wanted nothing more than to vent the fury they had over their own betrayals onto whatever hapless wayward came here looking for help. 

Unfortunately these guys are gone or rarely post anymore. Thats why I only come on occasionally. TAM has gotten way too militant and, strangely, a bit too P.C. for my taste. Healthy debate often gets drowned out by some members who beleve its either their way or the highway.


----------



## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have to agree...They both need professional counseling....this story once again shows the absolute utter destructiveness of infidelity...even in remorse the WS can't control the continuing fallout of the affair...in the end it is just really sad...


Truly sad! I feel so sorry for my BBF and her H but I have no sympathy for her. It was wrong of her to "forget" that she was married. She will be paying for this for a very long time. Years.

Many people don't seem to understand what commitment really means.


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Truly sad! I feel so sorry for my BBF and her H but I have no sympathy for her. It was wrong of her to "forget" that she was married. She will be paying for this for a very long time. Years.
> 
> Many people don't seem to understand what commitment really means.


I just hope and pray that your friend and her husband get the help they need...such pain and devastation....


----------



## hibiscus

I don't want to suggest TAM to her as yet. She is far too sensitive at the moment. She will benefit better with IC. She needs to speak with someone who is unbiased.

Same with the H I think.


----------



## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> I just hope and pray that your friend and her husband get the help they need...such pain and devastation....


Don't we all know this pain and devastation well! Brings back so many bad memories of my DDay and the months following it.I wouldn't wish it onto anyone

I also was on anti depressants. I crashed my car. I didn't go to work. I drank a lot. I wanted to kill the OW. I envisaged all kinds of ways to torture her. I wanted to have as many revenge affairs as possible.
I felt mentally unwell.It was a terrible place to be in. 

Thank God I have pulled through.


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Don't we all know this pain and devastation well! Brings back so many bad memories of my DDay and the months following it.I wouldn't wish it onto anyone
> 
> *I also was on anti depressants. I crashed my car. I didn't go to work. I drank a lot. I wanted to kill the OW. I envisaged all kinds of ways to torture her. I wanted to have as many revenge affairs as possible.
> I felt mentally unwell.It was a terrible place to be in. *
> 
> Thank God I have pulled through.


Your friend and her H are not ready for TAM....

The highlighted text says a lot...This is the point I keep returning to..this is the damage a cheating spouse does...if the state of the marriage was sub-par before the affair - the affair was a horrible choice to make oneself feel good..I equate it with usiing nuclear weapons to resolve a trade dispute...

Can a cheater change and be remorseful? Of course - it's rare but it does happen - however the damage form the fallout is something they can not control or take back - they have permanently damaged another human being and they have to live with that....*I do give the remorseful ones credit- the ones who own it 100% and engage in not one ounce of blame shifting - they are trying to learn and become better people - for that we should applaud them and not tear them down....*


----------



## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> Sexual harassment. But she will find out more in the interview.
> 
> She has no texts nor emails to show.


So if there is are no emails and no proof, how can the OM prove sexual harassment?

She still needs an attorney, whether she has evidence or not.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Her husband was wrong if he did indeed slash the tire, even if we all think he was justified."

JayGatsby,

I would argue its impossible to be both wrong and justified at the same time.

It is possible for something to be ILLEGAL and justified at the same time, though, such as Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus.

My point being, either you believe what he did was right or wrong. It makes no real sense to say, "I think what you did is wrong, but you were justified to do it." 

If I feel a person is justified in their actions, I would never call or describe those actions wrong. Nor would I agree with or impose consequences on someone for doing it.

I guess this makes me a prime candidate for jury nullification, which the government tries to claim we have no right to do.

But if I was on a trial, say a murder charge where the accused shot the man who raped his daughter or molested his young child, I would never vote to convict. Period. End of story.

I do not view his action as wrong BECAUSE I see it as justified. And like the people who struggled for civil rights (just as an example, not trying to claim any moral high ground for my view), I would not care one bit that it was technically 'illegal'.

In this case, my view would be that the POS had it coming and the BH was justified to do it. 

Even if they found evidence to prove it was him, I would never vote to convict, just as I would not on an assault charge because he punched this scumbag in the nose.


----------



## Squeakr

Dyokemm said:


> "Her husband was wrong if he did indeed slash the tire, even if we all think he was justified."
> 
> JayGatsby,
> 
> I would argue its impossible to be both wrong and justified at the same time.
> 
> It is possible for something to be ILLEGAL and justified at the same time, though, such as Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus.
> 
> My point being, either you believe what he did was right or wrong. It makes no real sense to say, "I think what you did is wrong, but you were justified to do it."
> 
> If I feel a person is justified in their actions, I would never call or describe those actions wrong. Nor would I agree with or impose consequences on someone for doing it.
> 
> I guess this makes me a prime candidate for jury nullification, which the government tries to claim we have no right to do.
> 
> But if I was on a trial, say a murder charge where the accused shot the man who raped his daughter or molested his young child, I would never vote to convict. Period. End of story.
> 
> I do not view his action as wrong BECAUSE I see it as justified. And like the people who struggled for civil rights (just as an example, not trying to claim any moral high ground for my view), I would not care one bit that it was technically 'illegal'.
> 
> In this case, my view would be that the POS had it coming and the BH was justified to do it.
> 
> Even if they found evidence to prove it was him, I would never vote to convict, just as I would not on an assault charge because he punched this scumbag in the nose.


Off topic and I see your point, but when you are on a jury, you are not there to decide whether the defendant is right, wrong, or justified in their actions. You are there to decide beyond reasonable doubt that the evidence provided proves the defendant was guilty of the crime they are accused of committing and nothing more. Justification in your mind doesn't relieve/ change the guilt or innocence of the *commission* of a crime, it only changes how you perceives if the person was right or wrong in committing it.


----------



## hibiscus

EleGirl said:


> So if there is are no emails and no proof, how can the OM prove sexual harassment?
> 
> She still needs an attorney, whether she has evidence or not.


I thought the same...maybe my BBF isn't telling me the complete story. But I am not gonna push for more information. She is far too fragile at the moment.


----------



## OhGeesh

hibiscus said:


> Don't we all know this pain and devastation well! Brings back so many bad memories of my DDay and the months following it.I wouldn't wish it onto anyone
> 
> I also was on anti depressants. I crashed my car. I didn't go to work. I drank a lot. I wanted to kill the OW. I envisaged all kinds of ways to torture her. I wanted to have as many revenge affairs as possible.
> I felt mentally unwell.It was a terrible place to be in.
> 
> Thank God I have pulled through.


This is exactly the reason why I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TOLD!! IF IT WAS A ONS OR SIMILAR!! principle versus reality going by your own admission it's obviouls reality wins out in most cases, yet so many tell based off of principle!


----------



## jay_gatsby

Dyokemm said:


> "Her husband was wrong if he did indeed slash the tire, even if we all think he was justified."
> 
> JayGatsby,
> 
> I would argue its impossible to be both wrong and justified at the same time.
> 
> It is possible for something to be ILLEGAL and justified at the same time, though, such as Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus.
> 
> My point being, either you believe what he did was right or wrong. It makes no real sense to say, "I think what you did is wrong, but you were justified to do it."
> 
> If I feel a person is justified in their actions, I would never call or describe those actions wrong. Nor would I agree with or impose consequences on someone for doing it.
> 
> I guess this makes me a prime candidate for jury nullification, which the government tries to claim we have no right to do.
> 
> But if I was on a trial, say a murder charge where the accused shot the man who raped his daughter or molested his young child, I would never vote to convict. Period. End of story.
> 
> I do not view his action as wrong BECAUSE I see it as justified. And like the people who struggled for civil rights (just as an example, not trying to claim any moral high ground for my view), I would not care one bit that it was technically 'illegal'.
> 
> In this case, my view would be that the POS had it coming and the BH was justified to do it.
> 
> Even if they found evidence to prove it was him, I would never vote to convict, just as I would not on an assault charge because he punched this scumbag in the nose.


I stand corrected in my choice of words, but I must differ with you on the legal/right-wrong issue. Laws are there for a reason, to keep peace and order, and legality in this case is a surrogate for determining right vs wrong. It is illegal to slash the tire, therefore he was wrong to do it. As he would be if he punched the OM.


----------



## Whip Morgan

OG, it's apparent now this was more than a ONS. not only did she carry on an EA with this OM , before the PA , the OM was someone that socialized with the H. The H suspected but the wife continued to lie. A lot more than just a ONS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1

Whip Morgan said:


> OG, it's apparent now this was more than a ONS. not only did she carry on an EA with this OM , before the PA , the OM was someone that socialized with the H. The H suspected but the wife continued to lie. A lot more than just a ONS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope and pray it was a ONS and all the facts are out..if not then she has shown more disregard for her husband than previously thought.....


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



OhGeesh said:


> This is exactly the reason why I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TOLD!! IF IT WAS A ONS OR SIMILAR!! principle versus reality going by your own admission it's obviouls reality wins out in most cases, yet so many tell based off of principle!


But aren't you ignoring the obvious. Why did the ONS occur? If there are underlying problems in the marriage or the WS in particular shouldn't they be uncovered so they can be worked on? And what about the poisonous secret that will undoubtedly eat away at the foundation off the marriage like a cancer.


----------



## Squeakr

bfree said:


> But aren't you ignoring the obvious. Why did the ONS occur? If there are underlying problems in the marriage or the WS in particular shouldn't they be uncovered so they can be worked on? And what about the poisonous secret that will undoubtedly eat away at the foundation off the marriage like a cancer.


That and in this case, she was hoping to bring an innocent child into a situation that is more than she cared to admit (to herself, her BFF, and her H). This environment obviously wasn't as innocent and perfect as it appeared to everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> Unfortunately she has no written evidence. It wasn't that kind of EA. They flirted every time they met up but that's about it.


She still needs to talk to a lawyer, even if it is just a consultation.


----------



## EI

hibiscus said:


> Truly sad! I feel so sorry for my BBF and her H but I have no sympathy for her. It was wrong of her to "forget" that she was married. She will be paying for this for a very long time. Years.
> 
> Many people don't seem to understand what commitment really means.


I truly mean no disrespect, hibiscus, but I am bewildered. Why is it that you have no sympathy for your "BBF's" current state of distress, since she did, after all, bring it upon herself by _"forgetting" that she was married_, yet you have reconciled with your own former wayward fiancé and are planning to marry him next year? Do you believe that your BBF (whom you stated earlier has been a very good friend to you and, by your own admission, has been there for you during many difficult times in your life) is not deserving of the same "sympathy" from you that you are willing to bestow upon your own former wayward partner? I mean, honestly, you're not the one that she betrayed. In reading through your old threads, it is apparent that your road to reconciliation has been somewhat rocky. So, I'm struggling to understand why you cannot find it in your heart to sympathize with your "best friend," who is currently suffering very serious consequences for her actions with the impending loss of her marriage, the loss of her dream of becoming a parent, the potential loss of her job, perhaps even her ability to find other employment, and has been thrown under the bus by the xPOSOM. Again, I understand, she brought this ALL on herself. But, so did your fiancé, correct? At what point are you going to have any compassion for her? Or, are you?

I have one more question. What does "BBF" stand for? I know that "BFF" stands for "Best Friends Forever." Obviously, "BBF" means something else.


----------



## tdwal

Yes it's like you had compassion before and now your ready to write her off. What changed?


----------



## The Middleman

jay_gatsby said:


> I stand corrected in my choice of words, but I must differ with you on the legal/right-wrong issue. Laws are there for a reason, to keep peace and order, and legality in this case is a surrogate for determining right vs wrong. It is illegal to slash the tire, therefore he was wrong to do it. As he would be if he punched the OM.


Many people break the law to do "what is right" or to get satisfaction. Some people are willing to take the chance. If the cops go after him and the the POSOM presses charges, the POSOM' wife gets to hear the whole story, as a matter of public record.

People need to stop being afraid to take action where infidelity is concerned.


----------



## Jasel

I think you can support and show compassion for someone you don't really sympathize with. Look at it like your child who does something ****ed up and gets into trouble. As your child you love them and will still support them, but if it's a mess they got themselves into due to their own immaturity/actions you usually don't sympathize with them. I think what hibiscus is feeling on the inside is tough love, while being a supportive friend on the outside. And if I remember correctly it took hib and her partner awhile to get back on the right track between them.

I know I've been there


----------



## OnTheRocks

jay_gatsby said:


> I stand corrected in my choice of words, but I must differ with you on the legal/right-wrong issue. Laws are there for a reason, to keep peace and order, and legality in this case is a surrogate for determining right vs wrong. It is illegal to slash the tire, therefore he was wrong to do it. As he would be if he punched the OM.


You are simply pointing out that it would be illegal, not that it was "wrong". History has clearly demonstrated that not all laws are "right". 

Justified = right, period. 

To expand The Middleman's comment, people need to stop being afraid to take action when they see "wrong" happening, period. This is a small example, but I tackled a purse snatcher in a parking garage when I was in my 20's. Spitting in his face and seeing him hauled off in cuffs, and handing the lady her purse back, was an amazing feeling. 

So far, I have successfully avoided being on a jury, but I can honestly say that I would never vote to convict a person that I truly felt was completely justified.


----------



## OnTheRocks

Welcome to Texas, folks.


----------



## EleGirl

OnTheRocks said:


> Welcome to Texas, folks.


Surely you posted this on the wrong thread.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Off topic and I see your point, but when you are on a jury, you are not there to decide whether the defendant is right, wrong, or justified in their actions. You are there to decide beyond reasonable doubt that the evidence provided proves the defendant was guilty of the crime they are accused of committing and nothing more. Justification in your mind doesn't relieve/ change the guilt or innocence of the commission of a crime, it only changes how you perceives if the person was right or wrong in committing it."

Squeakr,

Yes I know that is the purpose of being on a jury in our system. 

What I am talking about is jury nullification. This is when the jury as a whole, or at least members of it refuse to apply the law in the case/situation because they view true justice to be on the side of the accused.

The government of course rejects the concept and gets extremely p***ed off when it occasionally arises.

I, however, see it as a legitimate check on the power of government/authority.

I would have refused to convict a civil rights activist for refusing to sit in the back of a bus even if they had shown me pictures as proof. I would refuse to even go along with the law because regardless of if it was legally enacted I find the law itself to be an injustice.

I personally view prosecuting a BS for punching a POS or keying his car in the same book. Since the government has stopped fighting adultery, I think a BS the has their natural right to justice/payback (which under normal circumstances in a civilized society we surrender to the state) restored to them.

In a state of nature, we would all retain the right to seek revenge on those who wrong us. 

If the government under the social contract says that they will seek justice for us, and we no longer have the right to take matters into our own hands, THEN THEY D**N WELL BETTER PROVIDE JUSTICE THEN.

In present circumstances, the government refuses to do this, so I believe the wronged person retains their rights then. 

As such, I would never vote to convict for kicking a POSOM's a** or messing up his car BECAUSE I view the entire situation as justice on the side of the BS.


----------



## hibiscus

EI said:


> I truly mean no disrespect, hibiscus, but I am bewildered. Why is it that you have no sympathy for your "BBF's" current state of distress, since she did, after all, bring it upon herself by _"forgetting" that she was married_, yet you have reconciled with your own former wayward fiancé and are planning to marry him next year? Do you believe that your BBF (whom you stated earlier has been a very good friend to you and, by your own admission, has been there for you during many difficult times in your life) is not deserving of the same "sympathy" from you that you are willing to bestow upon your own former wayward partner? I mean, honestly, you're not the one that she betrayed. In reading through your old threads, it is apparent that your road to reconciliation has been somewhat rocky. So, I'm struggling to understand why you cannot find it in your heart to sympathize with your "best friend," who is currently suffering very serious consequences for her actions with the impending loss of her marriage, the loss of her dream of becoming a parent, the potential loss of her job, perhaps even her ability to find other employment, and has been thrown under the bus by the xPOSOM. Again, I understand, she brought this ALL on herself. But, so did your fiancé, correct? At what point are you going to have any compassion for her? Or, are you?
> 
> I have one more question. What does "BBF" stand for? I know that "BFF" stands for "Best Friends Forever." Obviously, "BBF" means something else.


I thought BBF stood for Best Friend? I think I picked that up from another OP but its probably wrong. Is it BF?

Look I love my friend dearly but it was wrong of her to not tell her H. I find it shocking how she could hide that from him for over a year. I thought she was a honest person. 

On the other hand my wayward fiancé confessed to me IMMEDIATELY. He was so ashamed of himself and felt that I should know who he really is. He gave me that choice and I respect him for that.

Both did wrong but fair play on my fiancé for having the guts to tell me! That's why I am able to R with him. If I had found out years later....I doubt that I could ever trust him again.


----------



## Healer

EI said:


> I truly mean no disrespect, hibiscus, but I am bewildered. Why is it that you have no sympathy for your "BBF's" current state of distress, since she did, after all, bring it upon herself by _"forgetting" that she was married_, yet you have reconciled with your own former wayward fiancé and are planning to marry him next year? Do you believe that your BBF (whom you stated earlier has been a very good friend to you and, by your own admission, has been there for you during many difficult times in your life) is not deserving of the same "sympathy" from you that you are willing to bestow upon your own former wayward partner? I mean, honestly, you're not the one that she betrayed. In reading through your old threads, it is apparent that your road to reconciliation has been somewhat rocky. So, I'm struggling to understand why you cannot find it in your heart to sympathize with your "best friend," who is currently suffering very serious consequences for her actions with the impending loss of her marriage, the loss of her dream of becoming a parent, the potential loss of her job, perhaps even her ability to find other employment, and has been thrown under the bus by the xPOSOM. Again, I understand, she brought this ALL on herself. But, so did your fiancé, correct? At what point are you going to have any compassion for her? Or, are you?
> 
> I have one more question. What does "BBF" stand for? I know that "BFF" stands for "Best Friends Forever." Obviously, "BBF" means something else.


I'm not confused by that at all. I'm confused by "I feel so sorry for her but have no sympathy". That's like saying "I really miss her but I'm not bothered by her absence".


----------



## hibiscus

Healer said:


> I'm not confused by that at all. I'm confused by "I feel so sorry for her but have no sympathy". That's like saying "I really miss her but I'm not bothered by her absence".


I am not very good at expressing myself when I write. Yes I feel sorry for her as I hate to see her in such a mess but she deserves what she gets.


----------



## Healer

hibiscus said:


> I am not very good at expressing myself when I write. Yes I feel sorry for her as I hate to see her in such a mess but she deserves what she gets.


Ok - I got ya.


----------



## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> I thought BBF stood for Best Friend? I think I picked that up from another OP but its probably wrong. Is it BF?
> 
> Look I love my friend dearly but it was wrong of her to not tell her H. I find it shocking how she could hide that from him for over a year. I thought she was a honest person.
> 
> On the other hand my wayward fiancé confessed to me IMMEDIATELY. He was so ashamed of himself and felt that I should know who he really is. He gave me that choice and I respect him for that.
> 
> Both did wrong but fair play on my fiancé for having the guts to tell me! That's why I am able to R with him. If I had found out years later....I doubt that I could ever trust him again.


BFF = best friend forever, the friend who you are talking about here.

BF = boyfriend

IF you want to use an acronym you can define it, that way we know for sure. BBF makes no sense to me except that I think you are using it to mean best friend. But there is only one "b" in "best friend" so it's confusing.


----------



## warlock07

EI said:


> I truly mean no disrespect, hibiscus, but I am bewildered. Why is it that you have no sympathy for your "BBF's" current state of distress, since she did, after all, bring it upon herself by _"forgetting" that she was married_, yet you have reconciled with your own former wayward fiancé and are planning to marry him next year? Do you believe that your BBF (whom you stated earlier has been a very good friend to you and, by your own admission, has been there for you during many difficult times in your life) is not deserving of the same "sympathy" from you that you are willing to bestow upon your own former wayward partner? I mean, honestly, you're not the one that she betrayed. In reading through your old threads, it is apparent that your road to reconciliation has been somewhat rocky. So, I'm struggling to understand why you cannot find it in your heart to sympathize with your "best friend," who is currently suffering very serious consequences for her actions with the impending loss of her marriage, the loss of her dream of becoming a parent, the potential loss of her job, perhaps even her ability to find other employment, and has been thrown under the bus by the xPOSOM. Again, I understand, she brought this ALL on herself. But, so did your fiancé, correct? At what point are you going to have any compassion for her? Or, are you?
> 
> I have one more question. What does "BBF" stand for? I know that "BFF" stands for "Best Friends Forever." Obviously, "BBF" means something else.



Friend got into an accident. A drunk driver hit him from the wrong side of the road.

vs

Friend got drunk and got into an accident. Not only did she crash her car,a family of 5 were hurt due to her stupid actions.




OhGeesh said:


> This is exactly the reason why I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TOLD!! IF IT WAS A ONS OR SIMILAR!! principle versus reality going by your own admission it's obviouls reality wins out in most cases, yet so many tell based off of principle!


As long as I don't crash the car or hit anyone while driving, I should be able to drink and drive..


----------



## WyshIknew

OhGeesh said:


> This is exactly the reason why I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TOLD!! IF IT WAS A ONS OR SIMILAR!! principle versus reality going by your own admission it's obviouls reality wins out in most cases, yet so many tell based off of principle!


But if you aren't told about a ONS what is there to keep it from being a single ONS?

If someone 'gets away' with a ONS and can successfully reconcile themselves with what they did what is there to stop them from another ONS when they get horny for someone?

Is there not the worry about the 'slippery slope'?

Get away with the ONS and later go the whole hog and have a long term physical affair?

Hibiscus's BFF may have initially only physically cheated the once (may have) but who is to say that given the opportunity a year or two down the line she would not have had yet another ONS?


----------



## OhGeesh

bfree said:


> But aren't you ignoring the obvious. Why did the ONS occur? If there are underlying problems in the marriage or the WS in particular shouldn't they be uncovered so they can be worked on? And what about the poisonous secret that will undoubtedly eat away at the foundation off the marriage like a cancer.


I disagree 99% that's what people like to believe, but rarely is it true. I know so many people that have cheated on business trips or some play at high end strip clubs it borderlines normalcy. Their marriage by all "worldly" measures are great!! 

People on TAM like to paint some ultra toxic death spin when infidelity happens and that is rarely the case with playing or a ONS, if it truly is a ONS and not a monthly escape. Longterm EA & PA, obviously do not apply!

Again principle versus reality! I agree with you anything I really do getting drunk, porn, strip clubs, EA, PA, ONS, drugs, hiding things, flirting, selfish behaviors, all do not add to a marriage or make it better in the purest sense of the word. The honest reality is if acts of indescretion and selfish behavior if very rare in occurrence usually have little affect on the health of a marriage longterm. IF KEPT QUIET!! 

Say something and the royal Sh$t hits the fan!!


----------



## OhGeesh

WyshIknew said:


> But if you aren't told about a ONS what is there to keep it from being a single ONS?
> 
> If someone 'gets away' with a ONS and can successfully reconcile themselves with what they did what is there to stop them from another ONS when they get horny for someone?
> 
> Is there not the worry about the 'slippery slope'?
> 
> Get away with the ONS and later go the whole hog and have a long term physical affair?
> 
> Hibiscus's BFF may have initially only physically cheated the once (may have) but who is to say that given the opportunity a year or two down the line she would not have had yet another ONS?


NO doubt about that!! I know guys that have gone both ways and started cake eating and I know other guys who have had a little fling on a trip and never have done anything again.

I agree with you!! In the end we will never know people are faithful for 20-30 years then cheat, never cheat but look at porn 1-2 hours a day, or never cheat but dream of it all the time, or sexless marriage.

My point is if it truly is a ONS or similar your LIFE will normally be far better if you keep it under wraps!


----------



## EleGirl

OhGeesh said:


> NO doubt about that!! I know guys that have gone both ways and started cake eating and I know other guys who have had a little fling on a trip and never have done anything again.
> 
> I agree with you!! In the end we will never know people are faithful for 20-30 years then cheat, never cheat but look at porn 1-2 hours a day, or never cheat but dream of it all the time, or sexless marriage.
> 
> My point is if it truly is a ONS or similar your LIFE will normally be far better if you keep it under wraps!


About half of all affairs are never found out. 

Many professionals in the field of marriage counseling advise that the BS not be told.

Each person needs to make up their own mind on what they think is the right thing to do.


----------



## MattMatt

WyshIknew said:


> But if you aren't told about a ONS what is there to keep it from being a single ONS?
> 
> If someone 'gets away' with a ONS and can successfully reconcile themselves with what they did what is there to stop them from another ONS when they get horny for someone?
> 
> Is there not the worry about the 'slippery slope'?
> 
> Get away with the ONS and later go the whole hog and have a long term physical affair?
> 
> Hibiscus's BFF may have initially only physically cheated the once (may have) but who is to say that given the opportunity a year or two down the line she would not have had yet another ONS?


And what happens if clueless loyal spouse develops symptoms of an STD?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

NVM.


----------



## bfree

OhGeesh said:


> I disagree 99% that's what people like to believe, but rarely is it true. I know so many people that have cheated on business trips or some play at high end strip clubs it borderlines normalcy. Their marriage by all "worldly" measures are great!!
> 
> People on TAM like to paint some ultra toxic death spin when infidelity happens and that is rarely the case with playing or a ONS, if it truly is a ONS and not a monthly escape. Longterm EA & PA, obviously do not apply!
> 
> Again principle versus reality! I agree with you anything I really do getting drunk, porn, strip clubs, EA, PA, ONS, drugs, hiding things, flirting, selfish behaviors, all do not add to a marriage or make it better in the purest sense of the word. The honest reality is if acts of indescretion and selfish behavior if very rare in occurrence usually have little affect on the health of a marriage longterm. IF KEPT QUIET!!
> 
> Say something and the royal Sh$t hits the fan!!


When I married my wife I truly believe that two became one. I believe that because in reality each and every decision and action I take affects my wife in some way and vice versa. If you don't believe that then I suppose that is your opinion but I would venture a guess that your philosophy doesn't build good communication and closeness very well.


----------



## bfree

OG,

Let me ask you this?

My wife and I love to watch those home remodeling shows on HGTV. Invariably during the show the contractor will find something that is serious enough to either take a huge chunk out of the renovation budget or sometimes the problem is so big that work has to stop and the family needs to find another place to stay until it is corrected. Mold, electrical problems, structural issues, etc are a common occurance. One thing that seems to be constant is that the homeowners were either not aware of the problem at all or they knew of it but thought it was minor. So if you were advising these people would you tell them "Hey you've lived with this for years and nothing has happened. Why rock the boat now?"


----------



## Aerith

MattMatt said:


> And what happens if clueless loyal spouse develops symptoms of an STD?


I am paranoid about STDs 

However, on rational level, I understand that not everyone has STD... and bearing in mind, OMW was pregnant at that time of ONS, she was checked for STDs. 

If it's ONS with someone from high risk group, then it might be a huge problem.


----------



## EleGirl

Aerith said:


> I am paranoid about STDs
> 
> However, on rational level, I understand that not everyone has STD... and bearing in mind, OMW was pregnant at that time of ONS, she was checked for STDs.
> 
> If it's ONS with someone from high risk group, then it might be a huge problem.


There is no guarantee that the OM is not getting it on with other women. OMW is not the only factor here.


----------



## Aerith

EleGirl said:


> There is no guarantee that the OM is not getting it on with other women. OMW is not the only factor here.


I agree, of course there is no guarantee... The best way to avoid STDs is not to have sex or IVs at all


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> But if you aren't told about a ONS what is there to keep it from being a single ONS?
> 
> If someone 'gets away' with a ONS and can successfully reconcile themselves with what they did what is there to stop them from another ONS when they get horny for someone?
> 
> Is there not the worry about the 'slippery slope'?
> 
> Get away with the ONS and later go the whole hog and have a long term physical affair?
> 
> Hibiscus's BFF may have initially only physically cheated the once (may have) but who is to say that given the opportunity a year or two down the line she would not have had yet another ONS?


It would have been very possible for my BFF to cheat again on her H if she hadn't had to deal with her current consequences of her ONS. The reason why I believe she wouldn't cheat again is because it will be associated with awful memories in the future. 

My wayward fiancé cheated in his prior relationship before me. He had a ONS with a friend of the GF. He was caught but the GF did not create one ounce of fuss over it. There was no fallout and they carried on with their relationship as though nothing happened. 

If he had been punished for his act then I believe he wouldn't have had a ONS later on with me. 

I suppose I can classify him to be a serial cheater as he has had a ONS with the previous GF and then with me. I suppose I could think that he is beyond saving but the fact that he confessed straightaway is an indication that he does not like being who he is.

Time will reveal all.


----------



## Squeakr

OhGeesh said:


> The honest reality is if acts of indescretion and selfish behavior if very rare in occurrence usually have little affect on the health of a marriage longterm. IF KEPT QUIET!!


Where is the proof and data to back this statement up? Or is this just your opinion, which if so we all have opinions on this subject and that doesn't make it something to live by. What works for you, doesn't work for all. Each marriage needs to be addressed on its own terms. For instance, my WW played around and never told. Sure it was just a ONS in the beginning, but then it became something else. The fact is that if it is a "very rare occurrence" (that wording signifies that it is more than a single ONS or happens only very frequently) the boundaries are blown away/ non existent and the person is now a serial cheater.

I like the home repair analogy. It works very nicely. We could say the same pretty much about anything. If you car or phone/ internet just randomly stopped working for an unexplained amount of time (could be seconds or days it was off and could occur once a week or 2 times a year) would you think it was nothing and just move on, or would you be concerned and want to know if something was wrong? I am of the "if this is not normal behavior, I want to know" school of thought. 

Believing everyone needs to be informed seems to be of the same school of thought that everyone needs to know everything about the A. Some people don't have a desire or need to know and are fine being in the dark about things. It is all in how the person is driven internally and we can't say one is better than the other.

I still question the ideal that the majority of the A's go uncaught/ undiscovered. If this is the case, how do we know that figure is accurate? If they are not discovered/ caught then how do we know they occurred? Is this because professionals want us to feel better about ourselves and make these figures up to show we are not alone, or is this based upon their client's confessions (in which case the number would be based upon the people seeking counseling and not the population as a whole, like they would like us to believe)?


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> If he had been punished for his act then I believe he wouldn't have had a ONS later on with me.
> 
> I suppose I can classify him to be a serial cheater as he has had a ONS with the previous GF and then with me. I suppose I could think that he is beyond saving but the fact that he confessed straightaway is an indication that he does not like being who he is.
> 
> Time will reveal all.


I wish you the best in your future relationship with your fiancee.

I too somewhat feel the same about my WW. I just question that if it takes punishment to stop the wrong doing, then is the wrongdoing part of the true nature? If I have to be there to "enforce" the boundaries and rules, will she have none or very little when it comes to these things?? If I say nothing when she breaks these rules, will she see that as my agreeing that her actions and behaviors are acceptable? 

Hibiscus, playing the devil's advocate, do you think that if you had reacted differently to his confession that it would have changed his reactions and behaviors? If you had said it was nothing and rug swept it, do you think that would be the same equivalent of the prior GF's reactions, and that it would be something your fiancee possibly saw and viewed as acceptable (as sometimes the only boundaries other's have are the ones we impose upon them) and may have been more inclined to repeat it in the future due to your reaction or lack of?


----------



## WyshIknew

hibiscus said:


> It would have been very possible for my BFF to cheat again on her H if she hadn't had to deal with her current consequences of her ONS. The reason why I believe she wouldn't cheat again is because it will be associated with awful memories in the future.
> 
> My wayward fiancé cheated in his prior relationship before me. He had a ONS with a friend of the GF. He was caught but the GF did not create one ounce of fuss over it. There was no fallout and they carried on with their relationship as though nothing happened.
> 
> If he had been punished for his act then I believe he wouldn't have had a ONS later on with me.
> 
> I suppose I can classify him to be a serial cheater as he has had a ONS with the previous GF and then with me. I suppose I could think that he is beyond saving but the fact that he confessed straightaway is an indication that he does not like being who he is.
> 
> Time will reveal all.


Exactly! She had consequences.

FWIW I think your BFF is one of the 'better' ones, she obviously had a conscience over what she had done and it is likely that her guilt would have affected her for a long time had she not confessed.

But if she hadn't confessed and over the years got complacent then maybe she would have repeated this behaviour.

I'm probably alone here but I'm sort of hopeful that her hubby can, in the future, forgive her. Her helping hubby to nuke OM and offer to provide an alibi for her hubby might help.


----------



## Healer

EleGirl said:


> About half of all affairs are never found out.
> 
> Many professionals in the field of marriage counseling advise that the BS not be told.
> 
> Each person needs to make up their own mind on what they think is the right thing to do.


That's the rub. "Each person needs to make up their own mind on what they think is the right thing to do." That leaves the decision solely to the cheater. What the right thing to do is shouldn't be left up to to the betrayer. How is continuing to lie and deceive your betrayed spouse the right thing to do under any circumstance??


----------



## Thorburn

EleGirl said:


> About half of all affairs are never found out.
> 
> Many professionals in the field of marriage counseling advise that the BS not be told.
> 
> Each person needs to make up their own mind on what they think is the right thing to do.


Actually, many therapists do indeed tell the WS to tell the BS. In a recent study male therapists are more likely then female therapist to promote informing the other partner of their infidelity. 

Those that follow best practises in counseling are informed that secrets in counseling are damaging. Therefore, counselors are often times encouraged to give the unwilling WS a few weeks to confess before they will reveal the A to the other party.

I don't have statistical data but most of the clinicians I have worked do push disclosure and many of these folks come from a secular bent (I come from a Christian bent). 

All the clinicians that I work with here in my office do push for disclosure and a typical session with the WS would be something along these lines, "If you don't disclose your A I will, because we agreed to no secrets, and what you share with me will be revealed to the other person and visa versa".

One interesting statistic is that roughly 11% of therapists admit to not reading materials on infideity, whereas they focused more on domestic violence and substance abuse.


----------



## EleGirl

Healer said:


> That's the rub. "Each person needs to make up their own mind on what they think is the right thing to do." That leaves the decision solely to the cheater. What the right thing to do is shouldn't be left up to to the betrayer.


The thing is that the WS is often the only person who knows the truth and has contact with the BS. 

So no matter what you and I think the WS should do.. each WS will make up their own mind if the BS does not find out on their own.



Healer said:


> How is continuing to lie and deceive your betrayed spouse the right thing to do under any circumstance??


Don't twist my words. I have not said that any WS should continue to lie. I don't have the authority to force every WS to confess, do you?


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> I wish you the best in your future relationship with your fiancee.
> 
> I too somewhat feel the same about my WW. I just question that if it takes punishment to stop the wrong doing, then is the wrongdoing part of the true nature? If I have to be there to "enforce" the boundaries and rules, will she have none or very little when it comes to these things?? If I say nothing when she breaks these rules, will she see that as my agreeing that her actions and behaviors are acceptable?
> 
> Hibiscus, playing the devil's advocate, do you think that if you had reacted differently to his confession that it would have changed his reactions and behaviors? If you had said it was nothing and rug swept it, do you think that would be the same equivalent of the prior GF's reactions, and that it would be something your fiancee possibly saw and viewed as acceptable (as sometimes the only boundaries other's have are the ones we impose upon them) and may have been more inclined to repeat it in the future due to your reaction or lack of?


If I had told him that it was okay then he would have definitely cheated on me again. Yes he confessed but he also needed to witness what his cheating did to me. I was so sad,so broken and so disappointed in him. He saw it in my eyes and that killed him. 

Any person with an addiction of some sort needs to hit rock bottom first to become more self aware of themselves.

Was your WW remorseful?

My BFF is having her first interview today....


----------



## jay_gatsby

EleGirl said:


> The thing is that the WS is often the only person who knows the truth and has contact with the BS.
> 
> *So no matter what you and I think the WS should do.. each WS will make up their own mind if the BS does not find out on their own.*
> 
> 
> 
> Don't twist my words. I have not said that any WS should continue to lie. I don't have the authority to force every WS to confess, do you?


:iagree: El, well said.


----------



## jay_gatsby

hibiscus said:


> If I had told him that it was okay then he would have definitely cheated on me again. Yes he confessed but he also needed to witness what his cheating did to me. I was so sad,so broken and so disappointed in him. He saw it in my eyes and that killed him.
> 
> Any person with an addiction of some sort needs to hit rock bottom first to become more self aware of themselves.
> 
> Was your WW remorseful?
> 
> My BFF is having her first interview today....


Hibiscus, what if your H never confessed to you about his affair? Do you think you could live with that knowledge until your death bed? I know that is a purely academic question. 

You said he would cheat if you rug swept it, do you think he would cheat a second time if he never confessed the the first?


----------



## hibiscus

jay_gatsby said:


> Hibiscus, what if your H never confessed to you about his affair? Do you think you could live with that knowledge until your death bed? I know that is a purely academic question.
> 
> You said he would cheat if you rug swept it, do you think he would cheat a second time if he never confessed the the first?


If he never confessed then I would have never known. But he did confess because it was his cry for help. He doesn't want to cheat. He doesn't want to be this kind of person


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> If I had told him that it was okay then he would have definitely cheated on me again. Yes he confessed but he also needed to witness what his cheating did to me. I was so sad,so broken and so disappointed in him. He saw it in my eyes and that killed him.
> 
> Any person with an addiction of some sort needs to hit rock bottom first to become more self aware of themselves.
> 
> Was your WW remorseful?
> 
> My BFF is having her first interview today....


I don't see cheating as an addiction, but a lack in character, morals, or both, although I can see how some would view it as one.

No, I don't think that she has shown remorse. To me it seems that she is just sad/ guilty that she got caught and doesn't have her old lifestyle and friends (BFF's and AP's as they all abandoned her after the excrement hit the fan) and not that she was capable of the betrayal and hurt/ pain she inflicted. She made that choice and decided to cheat whole heartedly and hide it and justify it all along the way (all at my expense). This fact makes it all the harder when she says that she thinks we are doing better now, and I tell her that I am doing nothing differently than before, yet she thinks it is better now??? How can that be when nothing has changed that I can see, and everything was so awful in her mind before. Lots of days I am ready to just throw in the towel and move on for my own personal sanity.

I wish you the best of luck in your future marriage. (As a side note, after all was said an done, I also found out that she cheated on me when we were a committed couple prior to marriage and has hidden it all this time, almost 15 years, and had no intention of telling).


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> If he never confessed then I would have never known. But he did confessed because it was his cry for help. He doesn't want to cheat. He doesn't want to be this kind of person


Yes, that is a very hard question to ponder, as you never know what is going on in their mind and playing the what-ifs is nothing but a gamble.

What is he doing to show that he is changing/ changed and will not do it again? You mentioned it was like an addiction, so is he seeking counseling to deal with his behavior correctly and to better prepare himself to deal with this situation when tempted with it again? It just seems that this is at least 2 times that you know of it happening (once with you and once with another GF), so a pattern or history of his behaviors exists. What is he doing to prepare to deal with that behavior if that opportunity presents itself again?


----------



## Healer

EleGirl said:


> The thing is that the WS is often the only person who knows the truth and has contact with the BS.
> 
> So no matter what you and I think the WS should do.. each WS will make up their own mind if the BS does not find out on their own.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't twist my words. I have not said that any WS should continue to lie. I don't have the authority to force every WS to confess, do you?


Of course they will do what they will do...I'm not arguing that. You said some therapists say the BS should not be told. Of course we can't control other people's actions. I'm talking about the fact that some therapists say it should be kept from the BS is heinous advice and continued betrayal is awful and wrong. You said each person needs to make up their own mind...what they need to do is stop betraying and lying. Obviously it doesn't mean they _will_.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> I don't see cheating as an addiction, but a lack in character, morals, or both, although I can see how some would view it as one.
> 
> No, I don't think that she has shown remorse. To me it seems that she is just sad/ guilty that she got caught and doesn't have her old lifestyle and friends (BFF's and AP's as they all abandoned her after the excrement hit the fan) and not that she was capable of the betrayal and hurt/ pain she inflicted. She made that choice and decided to cheat whole heartedly and hide it and justify it all along the way (all at my expense). This fact makes it all the harder when she says that she thinks we are doing better now, and I tell her that I am doing nothing differently than before, yet she thinks it is better now??? How can that be when nothing has changed that I can see, and everything was so awful in her mind before. Lots of days I am ready to just throw in the towel and move on for my own personal sanity.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck in your future marriage. (As a side note, after all was said an done, I also found out that she cheated on me when we were a committed couple prior to marriage and has hidden it all this time, almost 15 years, and had no intention of telling).


I would like to read your posts. How do I search for them?


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Yes, that is a very hard question to ponder, as you never know what is going on in their mind and playing the what-ifs is nothing but a gamble.
> 
> What is he doing to show that he is changing/ changed and will not do it again? You mentioned it was like an addiction, so is he seeking counseling to deal with his behavior correctly and to better prepare himself to deal with this situation when tempted with it again? It just seems that this is at least 2 times that you know of it happening (once with you and once with another GF), so a pattern or history of his behaviors exists. What is he doing to prepare to deal with that behavior if that opportunity presents itself again?


Before we R we had a turbulent five months of our relationship being on and off. I would take him back and then dump him a week later. But he always showed remorse and was clearly ashamed of what he had done. He wrote me numerous letters expressing his shame for hurting me and how disgusted he is with himself. He even wrote a letter to my parents to ask for forgiveness. 

When I asked him why he cheated on me he said he didn't know as he was so happy with me. Weirdo.

Anyway I told him that if I am to take him back that he needs to do couple councelling to understand himself better. We had some sessions early from Jan to end of Feb. They didn't give any answers but they helped us to open up and talk about past.

Every time I have a trigger, he shows compassion. He listens to me, cries with me, reassures me again and again that he was such an [email protected]@hole for cheating, that he will never be that person, that he will never disappoint me, himself and our families again.

Its a tough one because there is no guarantee.I hear the right words but its still a huge leap of faith on my part to trust him.

He may cheat on me again, who knows.

All I can say is that you got to make a decision and stick to it. Being in limbo land is the worse


----------



## hibiscus

Just to update on my BFF:

She had her interview yesterday is being charged for sexual harassment. The OM claims that she has been bullying him at work and outside of work. There is no evidence. Its his word against hers. But she is to be further interviewed and is still suspended.

The police also gave her H a final warning and is told not to contact the OM nor come close to his property.

My BFF is shocked with the OM's claim. I bet she feels disgusted that she let him have sex with her!!


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Just to update on my BFF:
> 
> She had her interview yesterday is being charged for sexual harassment. The OM claims that she has been bullying him at work and outside of work. There is no evidence. Its his word against hers. But she is to be further interviewed and is still suspended.
> 
> The police also gave her H a final warning and is told not to contact the OM nor come close to his property.
> 
> My BFF is shocked with the OM's claim. I bet she feels disgusted that she let him have sex with her!!


Wow...cheating has been like an acid in her life and it is eating away at everything she held dear - work, friends, marriage....I do hope she finds a really good counselor...


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> I would like to read your posts. How do I search for them?


I haven't started a thread about my particular situation, just what responses I have added to others posts (most posts by a user can be seen by clicking on their username and going into their profile to see other posts). My situation is pretty much like most on here where the WS cheated and was discovered and caught by the BS whom was under the impression that the relationship wasn't as bad as the WS thought it was. Read enough and you generally know what has to be done.

I have started to post my situation a few times but always got side tracked as I know what the responses and suggestions will be ( I might have nice guy syndrome, but am not a cuckold and am definitely not stupid and just am not in the mood to be insulted on both accounts just yet). I have even tried to start a few general threads about what do people think (just looking for different perspectives and trying to get a discussion going on a topic I thought interesting) and the respondents always want to relate it to my situation and inquire what I am doing about it, thinking that all people are always seeking their help and guidance, sometimes that is not true and posters would just like friendly intelligent discussions to get different perspectives. I even stated in those posts it wasn't about my situation and just wanting general opinions on the topic and not specific situations, yet it always becomes personal. 

For this reason, I haven't opened myself up just yet. As a BS with low to no self esteem, years in a relationship with a family to look out for, I know what needs to be done and will do so at my own pace, as things aren't getting any worse the longer I take and may get better with communication opening up, I am just not ready to be belittled by nameless and faceless people on the Internet that feel they can say and do as they please. They are hiding behind the Internet so they feel that gives them the right to say and do things they would never attempt in person. 

Because of how i feel about this, I try to give sound opinions and advice without insulting the advice seekers but most in this forum don't follow that ideal. I stand by the ideal that I won't say or do something on the Internet that I wouldn't do if I met the person face to face. Sorry if this turned into a rant, but I have been called a cuckold several times for my views and don't believe this is the case (although the true terminology would show this correct the fetish term turns my stomach and I see it as an insult). Why people feel the need to insult and bully a person to do something I can't understand. If someone admits to being a WS the mods don't allow them to be called slvts, wh0res, etc, but they allow the BSs to be called cucks, doormats, etc. and this just burns me. Lots don't even think calling someone a cuckold is an insult???? 

Sorry for the rant, just sometimes this place rubs me the wrong way, especially when I read threads where the OP doesn't want to follow the advice. It is a free world. If they don't want to follow advice that is fine, you can try and sway them with intelligent argument and examples but there is no need to insult them or their intelligence to bully them into doing something because someone thinks they should.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> I haven't started a thread about my particular situation, just what responses I have added to others posts (most posts by a user can be seen by clicking on their username and going into their profile to see other posts). My situation is pretty much like most on here where the WS cheated and was discovered and caught by the BS whom was under the impression that the relationship wasn't as bad as the WS thought it was. Read enough and you generally know what has to be done.
> 
> I have started to post my situation a few times but always got side tracked as I know what the responses and suggestions will be ( I might have nice guy syndrome, but am not a cuckold and am definitely not stupid and just am not in the mood to be insulted on both accounts just yet). I have even tried to start a few general threads about what do people think (just looking for different perspectives and trying to get a discussion going on a topic I thought interesting) and the respondents always want to relate it to my situation and inquire what I am doing about it, thinking that all people are always seeking their help and guidance, sometimes that is not true and posters would just like friendly intelligent discussions to get different perspectives. I even stated in those posts it wasn't about my situation and just wanting general opinions on the topic and not specific situations, yet it always becomes personal.
> 
> For this reason, I haven't opened myself up just yet. As a BS with low to no self esteem, years in a relationship with a family to look out for, I know what needs to be done and will do so at my own pace, as things aren't getting any worse the longer I take and may get better with communication opening up, I am just not ready to be belittled by nameless and faceless people on the Internet that feel they can say and do as they please. They are hiding behind the Internet so they feel that gives them the right to say and do things they would never attempt in person.
> 
> Because of how i feel about this, I try to give sound opinions and advice without insulting the advice seekers but most in this forum don't follow that ideal. I stand by the ideal that I won't say or do something on the Internet that I wouldn't do if I met the person face to face. Sorry if this turned into a rant, but I have been called a cuckold several times for my views and don't believe this is the case (although the true terminology would show this correct the fetish term turns my stomach and I see it as an insult). Why people feel the need to insult and bully a person to do something I can't understand. If someone admits to being a WS the mods don't allow them to be called slvts, wh0res, etc, but they allow the BSs to be called cucks, doormats, etc. and this just burns me. Lots don't even think calling someone a cuckold is an insult????
> 
> Sorry for the rant, just sometimes this place rubs me the wrong way, especially when I read threads where the OP doesn't want to follow the advice. It is a free world. If they don't want to follow advice that is fine, you can try and sway them with intelligent argument and examples but there is no need to insult them or their intelligence to bully them into doing something because someone thinks they should.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is people for you. We are very diverse I guess.
Yes it is your life and its your choice only. No one has a crystal ball and no one can tell you what makes you happy.

You have to run your own course on that one. If you are not sure then I wouldn't make any hasty decisions as yet.


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Just to update on my BFF:
> 
> She had her interview yesterday is being charged for sexual harassment. The OM claims that she has been bullying him at work and outside of work. There is no evidence. Its his word against hers. But she is to be further interviewed and is still suspended.
> 
> The police also gave her H a final warning and is told not to contact the OM nor come close to his property.
> 
> My BFF is shocked with the OM's claim. I bet she feels disgusted that she let him have sex with her!!


What I don't understand in all of this is how the OM is getting everyone to side with him if there is no evidence? How can he get the police to be warning the H without evidence or proof, other than the prior altercation? I agree that he does seem the primary suspect, but wouldn't your friend or anyone else that has issues with the OM be as well, so shouldn't they also get warnings????

I also wonder how the accuser in a sexual harassment case is not suspect in any way but the accused is to blame for everything? Lots of companies I have worked for had clearly spelled out policies that in such instances both parties were to be suspended with pay pending further investigation. This was to keep one party from continuing to produce damning evidence and ruining the reputation and name of the other during the investigation into the accusations. I think there is more here than is being told. It probably plays with his recent promotion and he might have evidence or witnesses to her behavior as well????

Although I feel bad for your BFF for what she is going through, I don't feel sorry for her as she is now finding out first hand the destructiveness that cheating and lying can do and finding that actions carry consequences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

hibiscus said:


> Just to update on my BFF:
> 
> *She had her interview yesterday is being charged for sexual harassment. The OM claims that she has been bullying him at work and outside of work. There is no evidence. Its his word against hers. But she is to be further interviewed and is still suspended.*
> 
> The police also gave her H a final warning and is told not to contact the OM nor come close to his property.
> 
> My BFF is shocked with the OM's claim. I bet she feels disgusted that she let him have sex with her!!



She cheated. I know, consequences. 

But, to address her situation, and as a friend while she is clearly overwhelmed now, may I suggest she defers her next meeting to after she gets an employment lawyer?

The lawyer can attend the meeting with her and deal with the questions instead of her.

There no need for her to walk into the lions den by herself again. It's too silly. She's destroying her own employment or potential payout by talking. How does she know what she says/said did not damaged herself?


----------



## jay_gatsby

aug said:


> She cheated. I know, consequences.
> 
> But, to address her situation, and as a friend while she is clearly overwhelmed now, may I suggest she defers her next meeting to after she gets an employment lawyer?
> 
> The lawyer can attend the meeting with her and deal with the questions instead of her.
> 
> There no need for her to walk into the lions den by herself again. It's too silly. She's destroying her own employment or potential payout by talking. How does she know what she says/said did not damaged herself?


:iagree: Cheating has nothing to do with sexual harassment in this case unless your BFF is trying to resume relations. It occurred over a year ago. This case reeks of self preservation by the OM. Maybe he might have a case against BFF's husband for slashing his tires. She needs legal counsel before the next meeting. As her friend you should advise her and support her during this time.


----------



## bfree

Ok, maybe its because I haven't finished my coffee yet but I just had a thought. If she lost her job would that be such a bad thing? First of all she would no longer be working with the OM anymore. Second she would truly have felt some severe consequences (as if she hasn't felt them already I know) due to her poor decisions. And third maybe if she were no longer working with the OM her husband might soften up a little and consider R after he gets done with his temper tantrum (yes I know he's hurt and in pain but cmon.) Is it just me trying to find a silver lining in all this?


----------



## Whip Morgan

After your BFF confessed , she continued to try to call the OM. perhaps he may try to show those phone records if this process continues. Unfortunately your friend continued to make bad decisions after she confessed. When you've digging a hole for yourself, The first step in getting out is to stop digging. Time for her to look for new work and focus on getting herself put back together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## theroad

Squeakr said:


> I don't see cheating as an addiction, but a lack in character, morals,



Some windex for your glasses.

Cheating a lack in character. Once the cheating starts the relationship becomes addictive. This is why affairs are hard to end. And why NC is needed so they do not restart.


----------



## WyshIknew

bfree said:


> Ok, maybe its because I haven't finished my coffee yet but I just had a thought. If she lost her job would that be such a bad thing? First of all she would no longer be working with the OM anymore. Second she would truly have felt some severe consequences (as if she hasn't felt them already I know) due to her poor decisions. And third maybe if she were no longer working with the OM her husband might soften up a little and consider R after he gets done with his temper tantrum (yes I know he's hurt and in pain but cmon.) Is it just me trying to find a silver lining in all this?


Well maybe this is where WS and BH could work together.

I think (unfortunately) the OM has made a very good move here. Maybe he is 'well in' with some of the senior members of the company. He has certainly struck first here.

Perhaps the BH could be persuaded, not for his WS's sake but so that the OM doesn't 'win' to look at penning a letter to all pertinent people and head office, if there is a head office, threatening some sort of legal recourse, perhaps get an employment lawyers advice. Especially get advice on how this may affect WS's case.

Head office might just decide that OM is not worth all the drama no matter how well in he is with senior management.

I know that sexual harassment, bullying and rape can be perpetrated against a man by a woman, but in a car after a works do?

C'mon, unlikely.

No you're not alone Bfree.


----------



## Whip Morgan

If she immediately put in her notice at her job after she confessed, that may have helped with her BH. however , anything now may seem that she is being forced out. Of course, since her BH pretty much made it clear he is leaving, if she left her job immediately it would hurt her financially. A tough spot for her either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> What I don't understand in all of this is how the OM is getting everyone to side with him if there is no evidence? How can he get the police to be warning the H without evidence or proof, other than the prior altercation? I agree that he does seem the primary suspect, but wouldn't your friend or anyone else that has issues with the OM be as well, so shouldn't they also get warnings????
> 
> I also wonder how the accuser in a sexual harassment case is not suspect in any way but the accused is to blame for everything? Lots of companies I have worked for had clearly spelled out policies that in such instances both parties were to be suspended with pay pending further investigation. This was to keep one party from continuing to produce damning evidence and ruining the reputation and name of the other during the investigation into the accusations. I think there is more here than is being told. It probably plays with his recent promotion and he might have evidence or witnesses to her behavior as well????
> 
> Although I feel bad for your BFF for what she is going through, I don't feel sorry for her as she is now finding out first hand the destructiveness that cheating and lying can do and finding that actions carry consequences.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have to remember that the H went to her work and physically abused the OM. Plus H sent a letter to the OM's wife. Maybe he what he wrote was also very threatening. I don't know.

As for my BFF being charged for sexual harassment, I personally don't think he has a leg to stand on but the company has to follow procedures if a serious claim has been made by an employee. Evidence or not.My BFF is still on full pay while suspended.


----------



## Married but Happy

All this for a ONS - it's way beyond ridiculous now. If she'd said nothing, reformed herself (as many do when they come to their senses - and many do that, too) and gone on with her life, it would really have been better for everyone. She would be the only one dealing with consequences - her ongoing guilt. That guilt would prevent her from repeat offenses.

Of course she shouldn't have done it in the first place. Let's not argue that - it's a given.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Married, 
Unfortunately it wasn't just a ONS. It was a long time EA that the husband suspected but the wife continually lied about. The H even socialized with the OM, to add to his humiliation. The BFF may have gotten her thrills from all that, but is paying the price now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> Married,
> Unfortunately it wasn't just a ONS. It was a long time EA that the husband suspected but the wife continually lied about. The H even socialized with the OM, to add to his humiliation. The BFF may have gotten her thrills from all that, but is paying the price now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But what exactly is an EA? They clearly found each other attractive and there was light flirting. But there was never any messages exchanged nor any talk about having sex in the future. No picture swapping. None of that.

Does that mean one should not have a friendship with anyone you are sexually attracted to?


----------



## hibiscus

Married but Happy said:


> All this for a ONS - it's way beyond ridiculous now. If she'd said nothing, reformed herself (as many do when they come to their senses - and many do that, too) and gone on with her life, it would really have been better for everyone. She would be the only one dealing with consequences - her ongoing guilt. That guilt would prevent her from repeat offenses.
> 
> Of course she shouldn't have done it in the first place. Let's not argue that - it's a given.


Hard to say whether she would have reformed herself if she hadn't told her H.

After all, she was shocked at her loss of control. She needs to address that. 

The guilt could have prevented her for further repeating it or she could have conveniently "forgotten" about her guilt eventually. Mind you, she wouldn't have been able to with me harping on about my cheating partner all the time


----------



## hibiscus

aug said:


> She cheated. I know, consequences.
> 
> But, to address her situation, and as a friend while she is clearly overwhelmed now, may I suggest she defers her next meeting to after she gets an employment lawyer?
> 
> The lawyer can attend the meeting with her and deal with the questions instead of her.
> 
> There no need for her to walk into the lions den by herself again. It's too silly. She's destroying her own employment or potential payout by talking. How does she know what she says/said did not damaged herself?


Will definitely mention this to her


----------



## Squeakr

theroad said:


> Some windex for your glasses.
> 
> Cheating a lack in character. Once the cheating starts the relationship becomes addictive. This is why affairs are hard to end. And why NC is needed so they do not restart.


Sorry but it is the emotional or sexual attachment that is addictive and missed and not the act of cheating or betraying. One chooses and becomes a cheater due to a lack of boundaries, morals, and character and generally not because they want to betray and hurt their significant other. The NC is to stop the affair, that is true. But when it is stopped, it is the emotional or sexual connection that one misses and not the Cheating. A revenge affair is the same cheating as others but it is not an addiction as the intent is to even the score. If cheating was an addiction wouldn't the same thing apply. What about a drunken ONS, would it not be considered cheating as there is no repetitiveness there, so therefor no addiction or addictive behavior?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> But what exactly is an EA? They clearly found each other attractive and there was light flirting. But there was never any messages exchanged nor any talk about having sex in the future. No picture swapping. None of that.
> 
> Does that mean one should not have a friendship with anyone you are sexually attracted to?


Are you sure of this, or are these the things your friend has been telling you when trying to cover her tracks? She has said there is no evidence, but maybe in her mind that is because she has destroyed all her evidence and he still has some even though she thought he destroyed it as well (only takes one piece of evidence to back a claim). My WW told me the same sort of things never happened or existed. I have written proof from her and him that it did. When she reads it, she then says "I don't know, now. Maybe it did happen or exists. I don't remember but if that says it did, then it must." 

In my case, my WW claimed that pics were never exchanged and swore on a stack of bibles and her kids life to such statements. Then I found the thank yous for sending the pics. She doesn't remember them she says, but the OM says they both did and the emails verify that. In fact the OM challenged me when I claimed certain things. He and his wife were in for a rude awakening when I completed his challenges. He thought he was so smart as he had cleansed her accounts, yet he didn't do a good enough job of covering the trail as I found lots of it. This could be the same on your BFFs case? 

I agree she needs legal representation to stop from getting rail roaded in this case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissFroggie

If she was still doing it I would have told her she had a week to tell her husband before I did, but as it is in the past and they appear happy she was probably just getting it off her chest to a trusted friend because she is disgusted by her actions and wishes she hadn't done it. It's not your place to say anything and you're likely to find yourself looking like the bad one. She'll deny it, he'll believe her, you'll be the jealous psycho who tried to wreck their happy marriage! Tread carefully! I'd encourage her to talk to him about it, but if she won't I'd gradually spend less time with them and move on to better friendships. If she speaks to him about it, be ready to support her and encourage their relationship so they can get over it. One of my friends did the same thing and when she talked to her husband they worked through it (with marriage counseling too) and now their relationship is very strong and there has never been another incident. Some people make a mistake and feel so dreadful about it they'd never do it again. It's between them though and if you have lost respect for her, if she won't speak to him about it the best you can do is distance yourself. Good luck!


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## Squeakr

MissFroggie said:


> If she was still doing it I would have told her she had a week to tell her husband before I did, but as it is in the past and they appear happy she was probably just getting it off her chest to a trusted friend because she is disgusted by her actions and wishes she hadn't done it. It's not your place to say anything and you're likely to find yourself looking like the bad one. She'll deny it, he'll believe her, you'll be the jealous psycho who tried to wreck their happy marriage! Tread carefully! I'd encourage her to talk to him about it, but if she won't I'd gradually spend less time with them and move on to better friendships. If she speaks to him about it, be ready to support her and encourage their relationship so they can get over it. One of my friends did the same thing and when she talked to her husband they worked through it (with marriage counseling too) and now their relationship is very strong and there has never been another incident. Some people make a mistake and feel so dreadful about it they'd never do it again. It's between them though and if you have lost respect for her, if she won't speak to him about it the best you can do is distance yourself. Good luck!


You need to go back a read not on this issue, as it is well past the stage you are advising about. Things have been revealed and the situation is a train wreck with lots of casualties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan

Fair point, hibiscus. You've stated before that you believe your friend is being truthful, now. However , ultimately it comes to her being honest about those things you mentioned- we can never really know. 

Either way, this "light" flirting led to her being approached by her H about it, which he was ultimately right to e concerned about as it led to her affair. 

I think now the big issue for her is her job. I hope she is getting some support regarding her legal rights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

*Re: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> Does that mean one should not have a friendship with anyone you are sexually attracted to?


Yeah, that's exactly what it means. If you've read Not Just Friends you can clearly see how easily a friendship with someone you are attracted to can turn into something destructive like an affair or a sexual encounter. This is a boundary that many people don't think of or dismiss too easily. And now we can see here the end result of ignoring this boundary. If you put yourself in harm's way you can't really act surprised when it comes back to bite you in the azz.


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## EleGirl

aug said:


> She cheated. I know, consequences.
> 
> But, to address her situation, and as a friend while she is clearly overwhelmed now, may I suggest she defers her next meeting to after she gets an employment lawyer?
> 
> The lawyer can attend the meeting with her and deal with the questions instead of her.
> 
> There no need for her to walk into the lions den by herself again. It's too silly. She's destroying her own employment or potential payout by talking. How does she know what she says/said did not damaged herself?


:iagree: She really needs to do this.


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## Dyokemm

Hibiscus,

I've said all along that your BFF was correct to finally be mature and own her s**t.

Though she cheated, she has at least started accepting the consequences of her choices.

I've also said all along since the work incident, that her POSOM is a spineless little wimp who would do anything to avoid acting in a similar manner.

What he is trying to do to your BFF is just a clear and unadulterated picture of just how much of an immature, immoral, and gutless s**tbag he truly is.

Advise your BFF to get an attorney and go in guns blazing on this piece of human excrement.

As I said before, this POS deserves to be destroyed in every way possible.

When I first stated so, it was merely in respect to what he had done to the life of BFF's BH.

But now that he is trying to destroy her as well to save his worthless a**, he doubly deserves it.

I believe the world would be a better place if arrogant, self-entitled dirtbags like him were taken down at every opportunity.

Support your BFF and help her to fight this fiercely.

She deserves all the consequences her BH may choose to send her way. 

She doesn't deserve any of this treatment from this POS.


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## clipclop2

So there isn't a single witness from work to corroborate anything? I find that very hard to believe.

I would hire a PI. This is a life-destroying event. Fighting back is the only way.


Pull out everything she has from him.... She will need all office IM and email records. Any home contact. Pho.e records. Witnesses from work and outside. Anyone she may have even intimated her relationship with him to - before or after the ONS. 

If any of his wife's friends know anything - like BS having.g complained or expressed concern about his behaviour.... Anything and everything needs to be examined.

PS: anyone else sick and tired of the tell/dont tell debates? She told. End of freaking story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> As for my BFF being charged for sexual harassment, I personally don't think he has a leg to stand on but the company has to follow procedures if a serious claim has been made by an employee. Evidence or not.My BFF is still on full pay while suspended.


Personally, I think you should have a long talk with your BFF. Cops are involved, Sexual harassment has been filed and jobs are on the line. There is some evidence out there, she is not telling you about, for this over the top reaction.

Are these two equals or is she a superior?

Yes, I know sexual harassment can happen between equals. The speed and severity makes me wonder if the OM was a subordinate. I'll say it for the third time, she needs to get a lawyer NOW. Once she is blacklisted, she'll have to move if she likes the industry she is in. Confidentiality laws are not what people think.


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## whowouldhavethought

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Personally, I think you should have a long talk with your BFF. Cops are involved, Sexual harassment has been filed and jobs are on the line. There is some evidence out there, she is not telling you about, for this over the top reaction.
> 
> Are these two equals or is she a superior?
> 
> Yes, I know sexual harassment can happen between equals. The speed and severity makes me wonder if the OM was a subordinate. I'll say it for the third time, she needs to get a lawyer NOW. Once she is blacklisted, she'll have to move if she likes the industry she is in. Confidentiality laws are not what people think.


I am a retired lawyer and I agree 100%. She needs a lawyer and she needs one NOW!!!


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## Dyokemm

"But what exactly is an EA? They clearly found each other attractive and there was light flirting. But there was never any messages exchanged nor any talk about having sex in the future. No picture swapping. None of that.

Does that mean one should not have a friendship with anyone you are sexually attracted to?"

Hibiscus,

I see the point you are making and agree it can be a gray area.

I would have to say a good rule of thumb, though, is if the 'light' flirting is bad enough that it catches the eye of your spouse and they confront you about it, then you have definitely gone too far and need to check yourself fast.

Unfortunately, your BFF blew right through those warning signs and gaslit her BH about the extent of her attraction and the possibility of something worse happening.

And it came back to bite her hard in the a**.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Are you sure of this, or are these the things your friend has been telling you when trying to cover her tracks? She has said there is no evidence, but maybe in her mind that is because she has destroyed all her evidence and he still has some even though she thought he destroyed it as well (only takes one piece of evidence to back a claim). My WW told me the same sort of things never happened or existed. I have written proof from her and him that it did. When she reads it, she then says "I don't know, now. Maybe it did happen or exists. I don't remember but if that says it did, then it must."
> 
> In my case, my WW claimed that pics were never exchanged and swore on a stack of bibles and her kids life to such statements. Then I found the thank yous for sending the pics. She doesn't remember them she says, but the OM says they both did and the emails verify that. In fact the OM challenged me when I claimed certain things. He and his wife were in for a rude awakening when I completed his challenges. He thought he was so smart as he had cleansed her accounts, yet he didn't do a good enough job of covering the trail as I found lots of it. This could be the same on your BFFs case?
> 
> I agree she needs legal representation to stop from getting rail roaded in this case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I am not 100 percent sure as I can only base the truth from what she says to me. But I don't see why she would hide anything from me further....or maybe I am being naïve


----------



## hibiscus

Dyokemm said:


> "But what exactly is an EA? They clearly found each other attractive and there was light flirting. But there was never any messages exchanged nor any talk about having sex in the future. No picture swapping. None of that.
> 
> Does that mean one should not have a friendship with anyone you are sexually attracted to?"
> 
> Hibiscus,
> 
> I see the point you are making and agree it can be a gray area.
> 
> I would have to say a good rule of thumb, though, is if the 'light' flirting is bad enough that it catches the eye of your spouse and they confront you about it, then you have definitely gone too far and need to check yourself fast.
> 
> Unfortunately, your BFF blew right through those warning signs and gaslit her BH about the extent of her attraction and the possibility of something worse happening.
> 
> And it came back to bite her hard in the a**.


I personally would not have a friendship with anyone I am sexually attracted to. Not because I don't have any self control..Just better to stay away from temptation is my motto.


----------



## hibiscus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Personally, I think you should have a long talk with your BFF. Cops are involved, Sexual harassment has been filed and jobs are on the line. There is some evidence out there, she is not telling you about, for this over the top reaction.
> 
> Are these two equals or is she a superior?
> 
> Yes, I know sexual harassment can happen between equals. The speed and severity makes me wonder if the OM was a subordinate. I'll say it for the third time, she needs to get a lawyer NOW. Once she is blacklisted, she'll have to move if she likes the industry she is in. Confidentiality laws are not what people think.


They are equals but he has had a recent promotion so I don't know whether he is superior to her. 

I have told her to get a lawyer immediately


----------



## hibiscus

whowouldhavethought said:


> I am a retired lawyer and I agree 100%. She needs a lawyer and she needs one NOW!!!


I agree to getting a lawyer but if he has no evidence then surely this will come to nothing?


----------



## hibiscus

Just to say that her H came home this morning. Seems like he is staying but I don't know for how long.

I hope they work this out.


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## hibiscus

I really think she has learnt her lesson now. Its been hell for both of them


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## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> No I am not 100 percent sure as I can only base the truth from what she says to me. But I don't see why she would hide anything from me further....or maybe I am being naïve


I hope that you are correct with this, but right now she is embarrassed beyond belief, just like when a cheater is caught, and lying to minimize damage can be the only thing they know and think of. She may not want to tell you more things to spare her already destroyed reputation and your view of her. Again I hope you are right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> I agree to getting a lawyer but if he has no evidence then surely this will come to nothing?


That's the hope, but if the OM is creating evidence or she has forgotten about something then the extra insurance a lawyer can add is best. If things go against her this could haunt her in future jobs, her industry, and all future employment. Employers don't want drama and thus don't want to hire people that may increase that drama. Being terminated or just investigated for sexual harassment would be reason enough. A lawyer can block this from happening and the info getting out especially if she is innocent and decides to leave the company.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Just to say that her H came home this morning. Seems like he is staying but I don't know for how long.
> 
> I hope they work this out.


I do too! They both need some serious counseling...


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## Thor

hibiscus said:


> I agree to getting a lawyer but if he has no evidence then surely this will come to nothing?


That's not the way it works. Even if there is no evidence, her employer may decide to get rid of her. It may take some time but they will do it. Posom got the upper hand by filing the complaint first, and by default they will tend to believe his story. It is easier and cleaner to do it that way.

Your friend may be tempted to not fight too hard. Why make waves? But then she'll end up with some kind of bad mark on her file even if they keep her for now. So then some other thing pops up, perhaps totally manufactured, and they'll put another bad mark in her file. Then a third thing, probably totally fake, will be alleged and they'll fire her.

She needs to fight this hard, which goes against human nature. Presuming she did not harass this man she needs to prove her case, not rely on a lack of evidence against her. This is why she needs a lawyer. Corporations look out for themselves not their employees.


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## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> I agree to getting a lawyer but if he has no evidence then surely this will come to nothing?


No, Human Resources is not court. Too many people think court and companies work the same; they do not. If it is easier, better and cheaper to fire you and go to court later they will.

You need to impress on your friend, that's why I keep bringing it up, that this is not a joke. This has the potential to ruin her career in other industries as well. Yes, it seems petty and insignificant, considering her family situation, but whether divorce or reconciliation occur she'll need an income either way.


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## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> I agree to getting a lawyer but if he has no evidence then surely this will come to nothing?


Evidence is not the only thing that the lawyer can use.

She is one person being basically accused by the OM and her employer. There is apparently no evidence on either side.

She is being intimidated. She needs someone on her side who can remind the employer that she also has rights. This is especially true if the man accusing her is now at a high level in the company. He might have a lot more power in the company than she does.


I do not see how she can keep her job now. Not after this. If she is exonerated, others will still give her a hard time at work. I might be wrong but it sure seems like it can be a problem.

She needs someone who can negotiate a healthy severance package for her if necessary.


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## hibiscus

Update;

H came home on the weekend because he has nowhere else to go. They are sleeping in separate rooms. He wants a divorce. Told her that he could never trust her 100% and will never forget that she hid this from him. Say he will never understand and no longer wishes to understand.

My BFF is absolutely heart broken but accepts his decision. They are discussing ways to sell their house and splitting their possessions ( as well as their pets). Very sad.

In the meantime my BFF is fighting her corner and is determined to not let the OM win. She has a lawyer and will do everything to keep her job. She told me last night that they both exchanged a quick kiss in the workplace corridor. Trickle truth coming out from my BFF.There is prob more to it. 

Just for a silly,stupid sexual high. She so regrets it... Too late and too sad that she took the bait.


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## hibiscus

H also never wants to see nor speak to me again. 

I will have to live with that as I feel I did the best I could in this situation.


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## tom67

hibiscus said:


> H also never wants to see nor speak to me again.
> 
> I will have to live with that as I feel I did the best I could in this situation.


Understood tell your so to talk to him he shouldn't have a beef with him.


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## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Update;
> 
> H came home on the weekend because he has nowhere else to go. They are sleeping in separate rooms. He wants a divorce. Told he that he could never trust her 100% and will never forget that she hid this from him. Say he will never understand and no longer wishe to understand.
> 
> My BFF is absolutely heart broken but accepts his decision. They are discussing ways to sell their house and splitting their possessions ( as well as their pets). Very sad.
> 
> In the meantime my BFF is fighting her corner and is determined to not let the OM win. She has a lawyer and will do everything to keep her job. *She told m last night that they both exchanged a quick kiss in the workplace corridor.* Trickle truth coming out from my BFF.There is prob more to it.
> 
> Just for a silly,stupid sexual high. She so regrets it... Too late and too sad that she took the bait.


When did that happen? Or did it happen more than once?


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## hibiscus

Truthseeker1 said:


> When did that happen? Or did it happen more than once?


She said it happened before they had sex. About a month before he asked her for a hug and then they kissed and stopped abruptly. She says it was just the once. Its bad enough.


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## LostViking

I'm amazed at how you are still willing to be her friend when she cannot even be honest with you. There is alot more to the story than what she has led on. Her husband has the right idea divorcing her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby

hibiscus said:


> H also never wants to see nor speak to me again.
> 
> I will have to live with that as I feel I did the best I could in this situation.


Hibiscus, give it time. You did the right thing and you had his back, even if he doesn't recognize it. You can sleep at night with full confidence.


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## Whip Morgan

I think his anger will at you will pass in time. He''ll realize that you were only trying to help him. As far as the trickle truth , not surprised she is still lying. There is more. But now that you know your friend is capable (after all of this) of still lying to you and her husband, do you want to hear it from her ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hibiscus

LostViking said:


> I'm amazed at how you are still willing to be her friend when she cannot even be honest with you. There is alot more to the story than what she has led on. Her husband has the right idea divorcing her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost Viking why should I dump her? I told her to confess or the friendship is over. She did and look at the carnage. It cant be any worse. She is losing her job, she has lost her H, losing her beautiful house, possessions and pets. She is no longer going to be a mother. Is it important that I should know more details of her ONS?

For what purpose?

She confessed so fairplay on her. takes guts to do so. I told her I would support her if she did. I am a woman of my word.


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## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> I think his anger will at you will pass in time. He''ll realize that you were only trying to help him. As far as the trickle truth , not surprised she is still lying. There is more. But now that you know your friend is capable (after all of this) of still lying to you and her husband, do you want to hear it from her ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I don't want to hear anymore details off her. I just want to be her shoulder to cry on. She is learning a hardcore lesson here. I don't wish to make it worse. Its bad enough.


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## Whip Morgan

hibiscus said:


> Is it important that I should know more details of her ONS?.


Thats the thing - are we still thinking it was truly a ONS? You acknowledged there is probably more to this story and there most likely is. Her declaring it a ONS was probably an attempt to minimize her activities. 

You said this woman was like a sister to you - you can't just shut those feelings off. Its human nature to care for and comfort those we care about when we see them suffering.she was still lying and hiding the full truth from both you and her H. This kissing in the hallway incident was likely not the only incident. At some point the lying to the people she cares about has to stop for her to pull her personal life together.

As for her job, good to hear she has a lawyer. Her reputation may have taken a huge hit from this in the workplace, but I'd fight for everything I could if I were her.


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> Lost Viking why should I dump her? I told her to confess or the friendship is over. She did and look at the carnage. It cant be any worse. She is losing her job, she has lost her H, losing her beautiful house, possessions and pets. She is no longer going to be a mother. Is it important that I should know more details of her ONS?
> 
> For what purpose?
> 
> She confessed so fairplay on her. takes guts to do so. I told her I would support her if she did. I am a woman of my word.


I commend you for honoring your word. Hold your head high and walk proudly knowing that you have done the right thing. I can see why the H would not want anything to do with you, as you remind him of the BFF and he probably feels that you knew more than he does (and the fact you knew before he does makes him feel even smaller). You did the right thing and what was best for you and he is doing the same. 

Hopefully in the future he will realize this and make amends with you, but that may never happen (I can tell from my own perspective that I will never have anything to do with my WW's friends as they supported her in her A and knew for years yet no one ever told or hinted to me while using and abusing my hospitality and good nature/ offerings, nor did they encourage her to do otherwise as well, at least you did this part correct).

As for cutting her lose, I almost tend to agree with LV over this one. SHe is just causing you more and more pain and issues. Even though you don't want to know more, she will inevitably disclose more as she feels she needs someone to unload on. This really doesn't need to be you, but as long as you are in the picture and the BFF it WILL be you. 

I can't count the number of times in this thread that you have written, _she has told me all and swears this is it. I believe her as what more does she have to lose or gain by hiding anything more._ Only to come back here a few days later and drop a bomb shell on everyone that there is more, as was predicted by most of us (hate being correct in these instances). Read enough on here and generally the lie starts out as it was just a kiss, and then escalates with that kiss actually becoming the foreplay to a sexual interlude. Her mind is not right and she is justifying (like every other cheater) and making things seem less than they actually are. I bet she knew about this kiss all along, while consciously with holding that information and now she is acting like it was really nothing, just a kiss (when it was much more)!! The fact that the OM is taking it to HR, means that he probably has more to reveal, as I know he is cowering and in CYA mode (for his job and family), but he has to have something more to pursue this I would guess. (Please don't take this as a negative against you. I am not trying to belittle you in anyway, just stating that you are in such a tight relationship with her, it is hard for you to see and believe that she could do such evil and heinous things to the one's she loved. For all you know she may have been having an A with this OM all along and using you as her alibi to her H, saying such things as she was going to see you, or late as she was talking to you. He believed it and now feels like a schmuck for trusting you and her, yet you had nothing to do with it. My WW did this too me while using her coworkers and BFFs as alibis. I never suspected, so never checked and she never told them they were her cover story. Dangerous all the way around.)


----------



## Aerith

hibiscus said:


> No I don't want to hear anymore details off her. I just want to be her shoulder to cry on. She is learning a hardcore lesson here. I don't wish to make it worse. Its bad enough.


I also cannot see why BFF should share more intimate details of affair.. She provided a big picture - that's more than enough... The number of kisses or description of sex positions would not change anything...

IMO, your BFF lesson is really harsh... Feel really sorry for her. While her "partner in crime" OM will still have his wife, his house, his job etc. 

The reality is - BWs tend to forgive ONS to their WHs and it rarely works the other way around. I am sure, your BFF would forgive her STBXH if he had ONS...


----------



## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> H also never wants to see nor speak to me again.
> 
> I will have to live with that as I feel I did the best I could in this situation.


The messenger often is shot.

Why is he blaming you in this?


----------



## Jasel

Whip Morgan said:


> Thats the thing - are we still thinking it was truly a ONS? You acknowledged there is probably more to this story and there most likely is. Her declaring it a ONS was probably an attempt to minimize her activities.


I have to agree with hibiscus, whether there is more information or more to the story, what difference does it really make at this point?? Like she said her friend has lost her husband, probably her job, her future family, probably her home, has been thrown under the bus by the OM, etc. I think she's faced pretty much every consequence one could possibly want for a WS and then some. Hib knows she's a cheater, a liar, and is probably trickle truthing but what are more details going to do for anyone, hibiscus included?


----------



## bfree

hibiscus said:


> No I don't want to hear anymore details off her. I just want to be her shoulder to cry on. She is learning a hardcore lesson here. I don't wish to make it worse. Its bad enough.


You know Hibiscus, I can't stress enough how happy I am that you held your ground when talking to your friend. Can you imagine how this would have played out with a child there to see it? I mean look how her husband is reacting. Look how the OM is reacting. OMG it would have been tragic beyond belief. You may have saved a child from being screwed up for life.


----------



## Jasel

bfree said:


> You know Hibiscus, I can't stress enough how much I am happy that you held your ground when talking to your friend. Can you imagine how this would have played out with a child there to see it? I mean look how her husband is reacting. Look how the OM is reacting. OMG it would have been tragic beyond belief. You may have saved a child from being screwed up for life.


That's a good point. At least all of this came to a head before an innocent child or children became involved.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Aerith said:


> I also cannot see why BFF should share more intimate details of affair.. She provided a big picture - that's more than enough... The number of kisses or description of sex positions would not change anything...
> 
> IMO, your BFF lesson is really harsh... Feel really sorry for her. While her "partner in crime" *OM will still have his wife, his house, his job etc. *
> 
> The reality is - BWs tend to forgive ONS to their WHs and it rarely works the other way around. I am sure, your BFF would forgive her STBXH if he had ONS...


That part really makes me ill...


----------



## Squeakr

Truthseeker1 said:


> That part really makes me ill...



I agree, but we see it more times than we care to note. The APs spouse just accepts it and moves on while the BS loses everything they had (yet some still want to come on here and say, just let the AP go and stop bothering them as if it was not them then it would be someone else).


----------



## Whip Morgan

Jasel said:


> I have to agree with hibiscus, whether there is more information or more to the story, what difference does it really make at this point?? Like she said her friend has lost her husband, probably her job, her future family, probably her home, has been thrown under the bus by the OM, etc. I think she's faced pretty much every consequence one could possibly want for a WS and then some. Hib knows she's a cheater, a liar, and is probably trickle truthing but what are more details going to do for anyone, hibiscus included?


Very good point. Tough to read about how this person has still withheld truth to both her H and Hibiscus, who has been her support through all of this. A person would be very fortunate to have her as a friend. Not pleasent to read that the very common "there is more she told me." But I think both you and hibiscus are correct.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> I commend you for honoring your word. Hold your head high and walk proudly knowing that you have done the right thing. I can see why the H would not want anything to do with you, as you remind him of the BFF and he probably feels that you knew more than he does (and the fact you knew before he does makes him feel even smaller). You did the right thing and what was best for you and he is doing the same.
> 
> Hopefully in the future he will realize this and make amends with you, but that may never happen (I can tell from my own perspective that I will never have anything to do with my WW's friends as they supported her in her A and knew for years yet no one ever told or hinted to me while using and abusing my hospitality and good nature/ offerings, nor did they encourage her to do otherwise as well, at least you did this part correct).
> 
> As for cutting her lose, I almost tend to agree with LV over this one. SHe is just causing you more and more pain and issues. Even though you don't want to know more, she will inevitably disclose more as she feels she needs someone to unload on. This really doesn't need to be you, but as long as you are in the picture and the BFF it WILL be you.
> 
> I can't count the number of times in this thread that you have written, _she has told me all and swears this is it. I believe her as what more does she have to lose or gain by hiding anything more._ Only to come back here a few days later and drop a bomb shell on everyone that there is more, as was predicted by most of us (hate being correct in these instances). Read enough on here and generally the lie starts out as it was just a kiss, and then escalates with that kiss actually becoming the foreplay to a sexual interlude. Her mind is not right and she is justifying (like every other cheater) and making things seem less than they actually are. I bet she knew about this kiss all along, while consciously with holding that information and now she is acting like it was really nothing, just a kiss (when it was much more)!! The fact that the OM is taking it to HR, means that he probably has more to reveal, as I know he is cowering and in CYA mode (for his job and family), but he has to have something more to pursue this I would guess. (Please don't take this as a negative against you. I am not trying to belittle you in anyway, just stating that you are in such a tight relationship with her, it is hard for you to see and believe that she could do such evil and heinous things to the one's she loved. For all you know she may have been having an A with this OM all along and using you as her alibi to her H, saying such things as she was going to see you, or late as she was talking to you. He believed it and now feels like a schmuck for trusting you and her, yet you had nothing to do with it. My WW did this too me while using her coworkers and BFFs as alibis. I never suspected, so never checked and she never told them they were her cover story. Dangerous all the way around.)


Squeakr I can't abandon her. I can't leave her in her state. If I have to hear more lies then all I can do is repeat what I have been saying to her from day one...trickle truth makes the situation much worse. When this is all done then I will reassess my relationship with her. But not now.

As for her H, it doesn't matter what I say to him at this moment. He obviously thinks I knew from day one. It hurts me but I can't change that. I am hoping that he will believe me one day.


----------



## warlock07

hibiscus said:


> Squeakr I can't abandon her. I can't leave her in her state. If I have to hear more lies then all I can do is repeat what I have been saying to her from day one...trickle truth makes the situation much worse. When this is all done then I will reassess my relationship with her. But not now.
> 
> As for her H, it doesn't matter what I say to him at this moment. He obviously thinks I knew from day one. It hurts me but I can't change that. I am hoping that he will believe me one day.


Why did he think that in the first place ?


----------



## Squeakr

Like I said before, I feel that there is something she told him that Hibiscus isn't privy to...yet. I bet she mentioned something about her knowing, and he thought it was from the beginning, or maybe the BFF used Hibiscus as an excuse all along to cover her tracks.

I know that I have lots of anger towards my WW's friend as they all supported her (not all knew from the start, but when they found out they all told her how she was a good person that just made a little mistake and stroked her ego). She also claimed several times that she was going out or meeting them when she was in all actuality meeting the POSOM. I still can't forgive them for exhonerating her of her actions and being her alibi (whether they knew they were doing it or not) and the whole she is a good person speech. Some even told her that she deserved better than me (and they didn't even know me). Maybe he is feeling the same way and thinking the same things I have.


----------



## aug

hibiscus said:


> In the meantime my BFF is fighting her corner and is determined to not let the OM win. *She has a lawyer and will do everything to keep her job.* She told me last night that they both exchanged a quick kiss in the workplace corridor. Trickle truth coming out from my BFF.There is prob more to it.



Let's hope she's not tickle-truthing her lawyer. 

There's lawyer-client confidentiality so she can take advantage of that.


----------



## hibiscus

warlock07 said:


> Why did he think that in the first place ?


He just doesn't trust anyone at the moment but I understand why he would feel this way as I felt the same way when it was my Dday.

When my wayward fiancé confessed, he told me that he met up with the AP three times for coffee. I didn't have a clue that they were meeting up. But I believed that all his friends knew about them. His friends probably didn't as I never asked but that's what I believed.


Its just the mind going stir crazy after a betrayal.


----------



## thatcleanhippyguy

Screw her husband! She's your friend! That's why she confined in you! If my best friend were to tell my secrets I would never ever trust him again. He's my best friend BECAUSE I can trust him and tell him ANYTHING. I would honestly rather lose my wife then my best friend. That's how much he means to me. 

If you reveal the secret you might ruin the friendship between all of you.


----------



## hereinthemidwest

NO you are not to say anything. She is your friend. She confided in you. Here's what would happen....YOU would NO LONGER be her friend or her husband. He would be hurt and angry but I am certain they would stay together. Then she would be angry you betrayed her. So if you want to lose both their friendships then go ahead.


----------



## Squeakr

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> Screw her husband! She's your friend! That's why she confined in you! If my best friend were to tell my secrets I would never ever trust him again. He's my best friend BECAUSE I can trust him and tell him ANYTHING. I would honestly rather lose my wife then my best friend. That's how much he means to me.
> 
> If you reveal the secret you might ruin the friendship between all of you.



Wow....Way late to the party!!! Go back and read some more of this thread to be more informed. BFF already told the H and the H was her good friend as well so that makes a difference here. I would say your priorities are screwed up. Your W should be your number one BFF, as you two should be acting as one. Secrets in a M are only for the bathroom and nothing more. Ant secret your BFF knows should also be known by your spouse and the same goes for her.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Like I said before, I feel that there is something she told him that Hibiscus isn't privy to...yet. I bet she mentioned something about her knowing, and he thought it was from the beginning, or maybe the BFF used Hibiscus as an excuse all along to cover her tracks.
> 
> I know that I have lots of anger towards my WW's friend as they all supported her (not all knew from the start, but when they found out they all told her how she was a good person that just made a little mistake and stroked her ego). She also claimed several times that she was going out or meeting them when she was in all actuality meeting the POSOM. I still can't forgive them for exhonerating her of her actions and being her alibi (whether they knew they were doing it or not) and the whole she is a good person speech. Some even told her that she deserved better than me (and they didn't even know me). Maybe he is feeling the same way and thinking the same things I have.


I am not surprised you cant forgive her friends. I would feel the same if I knew his friends helped keep his secret. Ugh 

But that is something I would never be a part of. I wouldn't agree to that kind of behaviour from any of my friends, whatever "justified " excuse they have.

When her H calms down I will have a heart to heart with him. He needs to know that I never thought that my BFF's behaviour was okay ( and that I only just recently found out like he did).


----------



## badbane

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> Screw her husband! She's your friend! That's why she confined in you! If my best friend were to tell my secrets I would never ever trust him again. He's my best friend BECAUSE I can trust him and tell him ANYTHING. I would honestly rather lose my wife then my best friend. That's how much he means to me.
> 
> If you reveal the secret you might ruin the friendship between all of you.


Yes and you would allow your friend to perpetuate an Affair. Most of the time the Cheater only reveals a small part of the the truth. What most likely happens is the Cheater is still actively cheat and confides with someone else to find a partner in crime. After all misery loves company. Now this little friendship is going to be toxic. Why because friends affect us. They affect how we think. We are social creatures and the people you surround yourself with will have an affect on the way you think. So this Cheating spouse encourages your wife to go out, think about herself, check out that guy at the bar, it's okay I won't tell. 
We call them toxic friends. What eventually happens is the loyal spouse eventual finds out and he will probably sever all contact with anyone spineless enough to sit there and knowingly watch his Wife stab him in the back.


----------



## hibiscus

hereinthemidwest said:


> NO you are not to say anything. She is your friend. She confided in you. Here's what would happen....YOU would NO LONGER be her friend or her husband. He would be hurt and angry but I am certain they would stay together. Then she would be angry you betrayed her. So if you want to lose both their friendships then go ahead.


lol. You couldn't be bothered to read the posts either.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> lol. You couldn't be bothered to read the posts either.


It is one of the funnier things about TAM. I don't know how many thread I've read with a "OMG I KNOW you are wrong" after the thread has moved waaaaaaaaay past the first post.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> I would honestly rather lose my wife then my best friend. That's how much he means to me.


If I read a post like this from my spouse, the wish would come true.


----------



## thatcleanhippyguy

You're completely right. I would never say that to her. Lol. 

Sorry, I probably shouldn't joke around with stuff like that on a site like this. Kind of have one of those twisted senses of humor. :scratchhead:


----------



## hibiscus

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> You're completely right. I would never say that to her. Lol.
> 
> Sorry, I probably shouldn't joke around with stuff like that on a site like this. Kind of have one of those twisted senses of humor. :scratchhead:


OP you would never say that to her but it seems like you think it. I am intrigued by what you said.

Surely your wife is suppose to be another best friend? I understand that certain people bring out different sides of your personality but shouldn't your wife be more or equally as important as your best friend?

My conversations and behaviour is exactly the same whether I am with my girlfriends or my fiancé.

If my fiancé puts his best friend before me then I would suggest he married him instead of me. I personally wouldn't think he is ready for a committed relationship. Just my opinion so don't take offence.


----------



## WyshIknew

Glad you seem to be staying at the moment Hibs. Have you checked out Tears thread? She had a one night stand, confessed to her hubby and was an absolute model of remorse and getting it right after her ONS. He blew up, left her and they eventually divorced.
Now, over a year later, she has updated her thread and it seems her ex hubby now often stays over for the weekend to be with the kids so it seems they are mending bridges.

My point is that your friends hubby hates her guts and her AP at the moment, but time could be a healer if your friend handles things right.

I suppose you are not privy to inside info but as the hubby is sleeping there, is he aware of the OM's move in striking first at work?

Maybe that might motivate him to at least help her to kick the OM in the nuts regarding the harassment charges.


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> Glad you seem to be staying at the moment Hibs. Have you checked out Tears thread? She had a one night stand, confessed to her hubby and was an absolute model of remorse and getting it right after her ONS. He blew up, left her and they eventually divorced.
> Now, over a year later, she has updated her thread and it seems her ex hubby now often stays over for the weekend to be with the kids so it seems they are mending bridges.
> 
> My point is that your friends hubby hates her guts and her AP at the moment, but time could be a healer if your friend handles things right.
> 
> I suppose you are not privy to inside info but as the hubby is sleeping there, is he aware of the OM's move in striking first at work?
> 
> Maybe that might motivate him to at least help her to kick the OM in the nuts regarding the harassment charges.


Yes he knows of the harassment charge but he has no intention of helping her. He says it has nothing to do with him anymore. 
He is clearly very angry and I don't blame him.


----------



## Aerith

WyshIknew said:


> My point is that your friends hubby hates her guts and her AP at the moment, but time could be a healer if your friend handles things right.
> 
> I suppose you are not privy to inside info but as the hubby is sleeping there, is he aware of the OM's move in striking first at work?
> 
> Maybe that might motivate him to at least help her to kick the OM in the nuts regarding the harassment charges.


As far as I remember H already kicked OM and the police was called... He's already done his part of kicking and I understand why he doesn't want to be involved in that mess anymore. 

However, BFF should fight vigorously and make OM face at least some consequences.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> Yes he knows of the harassment charge but he has no intention of helping her. He says it has nothing to do with him anymore.


He's wrong even if he is set on divorce.



> He is clearly very angry and I don't blame him.


No, he is mad. People can think rationally through anger. Yes, I'm playing semantics games. He is being utterly irrational at this point. He needs to think rationally because this could get very ugly. We've all seen news reports where people lie and ruin lives, to the bitter end, to keep an affair hidden.

If they Reconcile:
The money she uses for a lawyer affects the household income.
The longer it takes, the less time they have for healing if he decides to R.
The fight to stop being black listed affects their reconciliation.
The search for a new job affects their household.

If they Divorce:
The money he may have to pay in Alimony affects HIS income.
The Alimony he may receive affects his income.
The separation of assets affects him.

Yes, all of this can be affected by her job fight not just a divorce. He needs to sit down with her lawyer, so that person can point out he is being utterly stupid in this department. I'm not saying he needs to get involved in the actual case, but thinking that she is the only one getting hurt, by the OM's actions, he is utterly wrong. 

What if the OM decides to sue for the car damage? What if he decides to sue for mental anguish? I mean he is already lying to get her fired, who knows what this guy will do. He'll sit over there pouting and end up without a car, a house and no job himself.

He better get his act together.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Aerith said:


> As far as I remember H already kicked OM and the police was called... He's already done his part of kicking and I understand why he doesn't want to be involved in that mess anymore.
> 
> *However, BFF should fight vigorously and make OM face at least some consequences.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree: The POS should not get away free...she should fight this...

In regards to her husband I understand his anger but he needs to get counseling to figure out how to manage it...if he does not it will only end up destroying him....anger management is for his sake not hers...


----------



## Whip Morgan

Her H needs to stay away from the OM and anything to do with him. His WW can fight her battle on her own. The H got lucky that no legal action followed after assaulting the OM and that they couldn't prove it was he who vandalized the car. He needs to avoid getting himself further involved with anything to do with this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

I dunno, no matter how much I would hate my wife I would help take OM down.

And laugh in his face when he did get taken down.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Whip Morgan said:


> Her H needs to stay away from the OM and anything to do with him. His WW can fight her battle on her own. The H got lucky that no legal action followed after assaulting the OM and that they couldn't prove it was he who vandalized the car. He needs to avoid getting himself further involved with anything to do with this guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Legal action can still follow. No one told him to interact with the affair partner. She gets sued and they are still married, he'll be liable for part of that debt. More so, if his actions are introduced at any point. Again, if he wants to "punish her" he needs to do it in a way that doesn't damage himself or their property.


----------



## Squeakr

Maybe he is not worried nor does he care about those material things. I know that when I contemplate moving on, I would rather have as little as possible and only think of a few things that I would really want/ need to have after moving on. Of course, as much as I like nice stuff, I have never been about the material goods.


----------



## nxs450

YES!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

NVM, working on not biting on potential derails.


----------



## Decorum

phillybeffandswiss said:


> NVM, working on not biting on potential derails.


Yep, I know the feeling, ha ha 

hibiscus, you are just made of the right stuff. I glad to see that things have only served to confirm you decision.

Please let us know how that conversion goes with the husband when it happens.

Take care!


----------



## EleGirl

WyshIknew said:


> I dunno, no matter how much I would hate my wife I would help take OM down.
> 
> And laugh in his face when he did get taken down.


See... that's what I'd do as well.


----------



## cledus_snow

her husband probably has so much animosity toward her right now, that he's basically letting her burn for her mistake. i'm not surprised.


if i was your friend, i'd make this OM's life a living hell until he fessed up. i'd take it up to HR and tell them "if you fire me for confessing, i'm suing everybody here!" I bet they'd pursue this OM more diligently when they're put in a position of having to answer to litigation. furthermore, let it be known that you'd subpoena his ass if this ever went to court.


----------



## hibiscus

I do find it very annoying that the OM has gotten away from this scot free. Not owning up to his cheatin ways and blaming it entirely on my BFF is disgusting.

He is a jerk and I wish he was facing consequences for cheating on his wife. It really annoys me too that his wife thinks he is innocent!


----------



## Whip Morgan

A shame that she threw away her marriage for an affair with this lowlife. The OM's wife will hopefully investigate on her own. Has your friend mentioned anything about her legal situation now that she has a lawyer? Hopefully her attorney can provide some good news.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Whip Morgan said:


> A shame that she threw away her marriage for an affair with this lowlife. The OM's wife will hopefully investigate on her own. Has your friend mentioned anything about her legal situation now that she has a lawyer? Hopefully her attorney can provide some good news.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some people, like the POSOMs W are more content with their lifestyle and would rather not rock the boat than face the truth in front of them. Maybe all she ever wanted in life was nice things and a family without having to work for anything and she sees she has it now so why care. Heck she may have something on the side the OM doesn't know about and that is why she isn't raising a fuss?

This is why I believe the the AP is responsible and deserves some of the blame, responsibilities, and consequences. To keep then from getting away Scott free. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Nothing has progressed further since her first interview. It seems like the company is doing a lot of investigating...anyway she has another interview coming up. She got in contact with the union who will also fight her case. Apparently they dealt with two similar cases last year and both lasted 8 months!!!


----------



## Truthseeker1

hibiscus said:


> Nothing has progressed further since her first interview. It seems like the company is doing a lot of investigating...anyway she has another interview coming up. She got in contact with the union who will also fight her case. Apparently they dealt with two similar cases last year and both lasted 8 months!!!


Yes she should keep fighting..this is not fair at all...


----------



## Whip Morgan

I doubt the betrayed husband would consider it unfair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Whip Morgan

She is doing all she can right now to preserve her job. Just have to let it play out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Whip Morgan

Hibiscus, her job has to follow a procedure here. However , it doesn't mean they necessarily believe the OM. that may help your friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hibiscus said:


> Nothing has progressed further since her first interview.


 Yes, if she is under scrutiny, she will get zero contact unless it is to update her suspension or terminate her employment.



> It seems like the company is doing a lot of investigating...


 Yes, lawsuits and harassment are very ugly issues. There will be "plants" placed in areas if it is deemed serious enough.



> She got in contact with the union who will also fight her case. Apparently they dealt with two similar cases last year and both lasted 8 months!!!


8 months is okay. I have two friends that waited 3 years to get their jobs back.


----------



## Thepoet

I think the answer to the original question is simple.

If your spouse was cheating on you, would you want someone to tell you? Act accordingly.

Of course I'm 50 pages late to this party and have not the time to read them all, so probably just repeating stuff that has already been said.


----------



## EleGirl

She is suspended without pay right now? Correct? How is she going to live without an income? At this point, it sounds like she would have no choice but file for divorce and get the court to order interim spousal support. 

This is why it's in her husband's best interest to help her get her job back if at all possible. He's shot himself in the foot financially if he wants a divorce.

This here have gotten very crazy to say the least.


----------



## jay_gatsby

EleGirl said:


> She is suspended without pay right now? Correct? How is she going to live without an income? At this point, it sounds like she would have no choice but file for divorce and get the court to order interim spousal support.
> 
> This is why it's in her husband's best interest to help her get her job back if at all possible. He's shot himself in the foot financially if he wants a divorce.
> 
> This here have gotten very crazy to say the least.



:iagree: It would be in the husband's best interest either way to help her.


----------



## MattMatt

Employers will sometimes use any excuse to fire someone. Other than the known reason. 

A need to reduce headcount, personal animosity, etc.

Might be more to this than meets the eye.

Plus her flirting might have caused other ripples.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> Some people, like the POSOMs W are more content with their lifestyle and would rather not rock the boat than face the truth in front of them. Maybe all she ever wanted in life was nice things and a family without having to work for anything and she sees she has it now so why care. Heck she may have something on the side the OM doesn't know about and that is why she isn't raising a fuss?
> 
> This is why I believe the the AP is responsible and deserves some of the blame, responsibilities, and consequences. To keep then from getting away Scott free.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know what you mean. As much as I should leave it alone it does anger me still that my partner's AP carried on with her life without any disruptions. I don't know where she lives and I think that's a good thing.


----------



## hibiscus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, if she is under scrutiny, she will get zero contact unless it is to update her suspension or terminate her employment.
> 
> Yes, lawsuits and harassment are very ugly issues. There will be "plants" placed in areas if it is deemed serious enough.
> 
> 8 months is okay. I have two friends that waited 3 years to get their jobs back.


Seriously??? Three years??? That's nuts!


----------



## hibiscus

EleGirl said:


> She is suspended without pay right now? Correct? How is she going to live without an income? At this point, it sounds like she would have no choice but file for divorce and get the court to order interim spousal support.
> 
> This is why it's in her husband's best interest to help her get her job back if at all possible. He's shot himself in the foot financially if he wants a divorce.
> 
> This here have gotten very crazy to say the least.


Elegirl she is on full pay. I don't understand why it would take so long, especially when the company is paying her a salary while she is suspended.


----------



## hibiscus

MattMatt said:


> Employers will sometimes use any excuse to fire someone. Other than the known reason.
> 
> A need to reduce headcount, personal animosity, etc.
> 
> Might be more to this than meets the eye.
> 
> Plus her flirting might have caused other ripples.


Well its driving her nuts waiting...

Maybe that's what they want. For her to give in and resign. Grrr a win win situation for the OM if this happens


----------



## hibiscus

Incidentally the H is still at home and they are talking now. But just that. He still wants a divorce so it looks like her marriage is truly over.


----------



## Jasel

I hate to say it but unless he slips up somehow, or is screwing around with other women, I think the OM is going to walk away from this


----------



## WyshIknew

hibiscus said:


> Incidentally the H is still at home and they are talking now. But just that. He still wants a divorce so it looks like her marriage is truly over.


Well you may yet be surprised. Every journey starts with the first step.

Perhaps when he finds out that you told her that telling the truth was best he may come to you for advice.

And I really still hope he helps your BFF 'get' the OM. It would be even better revenge than smacking him one.


----------



## hibiscus

Jasel said:


> I hate to say it but unless he slips up somehow, or is screwing around with other women, I think the OM is going to walk away from this


Not fair is it


----------



## Squeakr

They are taking their time since lawyers are involved and if they make rash decisions it could end up costing them more in the long run. 

Nothing in an "affair" is ever "fair". Bet her H is not loving the hand he was unwittingly dealt in this game she played.


----------



## hibiscus

Squeakr said:


> They are taking their time since lawyers are involved and if they make rash decisions it could end up costing them more in the long run.
> 
> Nothing in an "affair" is ever "fair". Bet her H is not loving the hand he was unwittingly dealt in this game she played.


Not at all. He is the one I feel most sorry for.


----------



## hibiscus

He is divorcing her because he has no choice and not because he no longer loves her. That is a terrible heartbreak


----------



## Squeakr

hibiscus said:


> He is divorcing her because he has no choice and not because he no longer loves her. That is a terrible heartbreak


He feels he has no choice. If he truly has no choice then there is more here than anyone knows about except her, the H, the OM (and possibly other OMs). He always has a choice and this one is the one he is making. He needs to own that decision and be truthful about it just as his WW needs to own hers and be truthful about them.


----------



## workindad

Perhaps the company will terminate your friend and om. The company will go thru their motions as they look into the matter. 

Then her om can explain that to his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

workindad said:


> Perhaps the company will terminate your friend and om. The company will go thru their motions as they look into the matter.
> 
> Then her om can explain that to his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He'll explain it just as he is explaining the current situation. He is being scapegoated. If she has believed it up to now, she more than likely will continue to believe it. Even if the company will find evidence to prove things, he will deny it and find another way to gas light that information just as he has this.


----------



## WyshIknew

Any update Hibiscus?


----------



## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> Not fair is it


CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know for him.


----------



## hibiscus

Update:
My best friend had a telling off basically and still has her job. Her marriage is over though. They are in the process of divorcing.

The OM has come out smelling of roses. Nothing bad has happened to him. BUT if I ever bump into him or his wife then I will have something to say about his behaviour.


----------



## WyshIknew

hibiscus said:


> Update:
> My best friend had a telling off basically and still has her job. Her marriage is over though. They are in the process of divorcing.
> 
> The OM has come out smelling of roses. Nothing bad has happened to him. BUT if I ever bump into him or his wife then I will have something to say about his behaviour.


Thanks Hibiscus, shame really.

I think the softy in me rather hoped that they would be ok eventually.

Hopefully this comes back to bite OM in the arse eventually.

How is your friend holding up?

Has she resigned herself to the inevitable?

To be honest I do wonder if there was a bit more to the story, not sure exactly what though.


----------



## WyshIknew

Surely the OM must have had a bollocking as well? :scratchhead:


----------



## daibai

My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too. 

It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.

Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing. 

ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


----------



## BobSimmons

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.
> 
> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.
> 
> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.
> 
> ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


Fantastic, I'm guessing you would have liked to be kept in the dark about your H's affair..not hurting anybody right?


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> Surely the OM must have had a bollocking as well? :scratchhead:


Unfortunately I have no idea as my friend isn't in contact with the OM.She wants to leave this company anyway because of him.


----------



## hibiscus

WyshIknew said:


> Thanks Hibiscus, shame really.
> 
> I think the softy in me rather hoped that they would be ok eventually.
> 
> Hopefully this comes back to bite OM in the arse eventually.
> 
> How is your friend holding up?
> 
> Has she resigned herself to the inevitable?
> 
> To be honest I do wonder if there was a bit more to the story, not sure exactly what though.


She is..okay. Not a happy person but is trying to get on with life. She has her days when she is very down and I listen to her fears and regrets. But she has not once said a different story to what she told me before.


----------



## hibiscus

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.
> 
> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.
> 
> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.
> 
> ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


So what is her insight? And now that you have been betrayed and feeling very hurt, doesn't that change the way you feel towards your friend's affairs?

I love and care for my best friend but I have less respect for her because of what she did.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Hibiscus if you happen to run into the OM I hope you don't get into a verbal confrontation. It's just not worth it. It's truly unfortunate for the OMs wife. But perhaps she'll be suspicious of him and do investigating of her own. As for your friend, I am glad to hear she didn't lose the job. But if she does want to leave the company anyway, that may help her work on herself. Although she destroyed her marriage, she can still change who she is, for the better. Perhaps leaving that particular job will aid her in that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hibiscus

Whip Morgan said:


> Hibiscus if you happen to run into the OM I hope you don't get into a verbal confrontation. It's just not worth it. It's truly unfortunate for the OMs wife. But perhaps she'll be suspicious of him and do investigating of her own. As for your friend, I am glad to hear she didn't lose the job. But if she does want to leave the company anyway, that may help her work on herself. Although she destroyed her marriage, she can still change who she is, for the better. Perhaps leaving that particular job will aid her in that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know its not worth it but its hard to not say anything. He didn't need to accuse my friend of harassment. What a coward!


----------



## Whip Morgan

He did whatever he could to protect himself. This man is obviously of low character. Willing to cheat on his own wife with another married woman. His willingness to lie should surprise no one. However , this is the man who your friend chose to destroy her marriage over. There isn't anything fair when infidelity occurs. I hope that both you and your friend are able to avoid him. Nothing good will come of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.
> 
> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.
> 
> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.
> 
> ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


Daibai

I'm surprised that you choose to keep her as a friend given that she lacks integrity or loyalty. 

Haven't you realized that your "friend" happily chooses to cheat and betray her husband that she took a marriage oath to be faithful to, yet you are under the delusion that she won't betray you if it suited her.

Doesn't that seem like a poor choice on your part? To put faith in an accomplished serial cheater and liar?


----------



## aug

daibai said:


> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. *She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.*



And it's your fault he's cheating, right?

What type of accurate insight can you get from a cheater? It's like asking the devil for advice on how to get into heaven.


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## daibai

Lol wow my post raised a lot of hackles. 

My marriage and her marriage are very separate entities. I DO NOT judge other people's relationships, right now I am focusing on my own. 

And funny, she's the most loyal and integral person that I know. I guess you have to look at the big picture.


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## OnlyQueen

I have to wonder what type of ''best friend'' acts like a police officer that meddles into people's relationships and affairs. What type of best friend reveals secrets that they confide in. Even if it's painful, they must have trust you enough to share the story with you and perhaps give them advice or help them out.


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## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> He is divorcing her because he has no choice and not because he no longer loves her. That is a terrible heartbreak


Why doesn't he have a choice? Surely if he wanted, he'd have the choice of recovery.


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## phillybeffandswiss

daibai said:


> And funny, she's the most loyal and integral person that I know. I guess you have to look at the big picture.


Interesting that you don't see the contradiction, compartmentalization and sadness in this comment.

To each their own.


----------



## EleGirl

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.
> 
> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.
> 
> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.
> 
> *ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs*. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


I doubt that this is true. Seems like statements like that serve little purpose except to make those who enable the cheater by keeping the secret to feel better about themselves or enabling.

The vast majority of BSs want to know. When I found out about my son's father cheating on me almost all of our 14 year marriage, I found out who knew and did not tell me... and I dropped them as friend. They are liars and enablers. They obviously do not care about me. 


.


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## tainted

EleGirl said:


> I doubt that this is true. Seems like statements like that serve little purpose except to make those who enable the cheater by keeping the secret to feel better about themselves or enabling.
> 
> The vast majority of BSs want to know. When I found out about my son's father cheating on me almost all of our 14 year marriage, I found out who knew and did not tell me... and I dropped them as friend. They are liars and enablers. They obviously do not care about me.


Maybe she believes ignorance is truly bliss. :scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## Healer

EleGirl said:


> Why doesn't he have a choice? Surely if he wanted, he'd have the choice of recovery.


That's just it though. For some people, they aren't capable of going on with the marriage after infidelity. I tried my hardest but I was not able to go through with R. I wanted to so badly, to keep my family, but the pain was too great, and all of the other horrors that come with that pain. 

So in that regard, I didn't have a choice. I have to divorce my wife.


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## hibiscus

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.
> 
> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. BUT I did tell her please don't talk to me about those relationships anymore. And believe me, we are CLOSE we tell each other everything.
> 
> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.
> 
> ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs. I wouldn't tell him. Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


Dabai it's not about judging here. Why does your friend need to have sex with other men when she is married? What's the point of her marrying then? :scratchhead:


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## hibiscus

Healer said:


> That's just it though. For some people, they aren't capable of going on with the marriage after infidelity. I tried my hardest but I was not able to go through with R. I wanted to so badly, to keep my family, but the pain was too great, and all of the other horrors that come with that pain.
> 
> So in that regard, I didn't have a choice. I have to divorce my wife.


And that's how my best friends H feels. He always told her that cheating is a deal breaker. He is clearly a man of his word


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## hibiscus

My best friend's husband doesn't want to speak it me anymore but I am hoping that I will get the chance to explain to him that I wasn't an enabler. I don't want him to think I was. :-/


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## hibiscus

daibai said:


> Lol wow my post raised a lot of hackles.
> 
> My marriage and her marriage are very separate entities. I DO NOT judge other people's relationships, right now I am focusing on my own.
> 
> And funny, she's the most loyal and integral person that I know. I guess you have to look at the big picture.


Your friend is definitely NOT the most loyal and integral person you know. She doesn't know what the word loyal means. 

I can bet you a million dollars that her H would also agree if he found out who his wife really is 

You OP are a classic enabler.


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## P51Geo1980

daibai said:


> And funny, she's the most loyal and integral person that I know. I guess you have to look at the big picture.


LOL. I hope you're a troll or a jokster. If you really believe your "friend" is loyal and has integrity I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Someone who is loyal and has integrity doesn't cheat on their spouse. For you to say she has those qualities while at the same time knowing what she is doing and not asking her to tell her husband speaks volumes about your character...I mean lack of character.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ironman

hibiscus said:


> your friend is definitely not the most loyal and integral person you know. She doesn't know what the word loyal means.
> 
> I can bet you a million dollars that her h would also agree if he found out who his wife really is
> 
> *you op are a classic enabler.*


+1. Qft.


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## 86857

daibai said:


> My best friend in the WORLD had a string of affairs and told me about them. I know her husband, we are good friends too.


You can't be surprised you got attention with an opener like that on a 'Coping with Infidelity' site.


> It NEVER occurred to me to tell her husband, that is none of my business at all. . .


And he is a good friend of yours?


> Now I am going through my husband's affair and she is a great source of understanding and support. . . She is offering insight as to why he might do such a thing.


 :rofl: Sorry can't help laughing. 


> ALSO, I don't think her husband wants to hear about her affairs.


How do you know he doesn't?


> Leave their marriage alone and don't judge.


General consensus on TAM seems to be to tell OW/OM's partner. Puts them in the picture. Just saying. 

A 'string of affairs'. I gather she attracts men easily and quite possibly doesn't mind if they're married. Careful!

No offence or sarcasm meant here daibai. Just my comments on what you said.


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## bandit.45

Hibiscus is your friend and her husband still living together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> My best friend's husband doesn't want to speak it me anymore but I am hoping that I will get the chance to explain to him that I wasn't an enabler. I don't want him to think I was. :-/


Perhaps you should send him an email to explain this. 

You only knew about the affair for a very short time, right? And I know that you were dealing with what your right course of action was once she dumped the knowledge on you.

If it were me, I'd send him an email. Have your say as you have done nothing wrong.


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## EleGirl

hibiscus said:


> Your friend is definitely NOT the most loyal and integral person you know. She doesn't know what the word loyal means.
> 
> I can bet you a million dollars that her H would also agree if he found out who his wife really is
> 
> You OP are a classic enabler.


Hibiscus, you are the OP.


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## MattMatt

daibai said:


> Lol wow my post raised a lot of hackles.
> 
> My marriage and her marriage are very separate entities. I DO NOT judge other people's relationships, right now I am focusing on my own.
> 
> And funny, she's the most loyal and integral person that I know. I guess you have to look at the big picture.


:wtf: Seriously? 

She is loyal? No! 

She has integrity? No!

And you are a friend to her husband? No!


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## Hortensia

MattMatt said:


> :wtf: Seriously?
> 
> She is loyal? No!
> 
> She has integrity? No!
> 
> And you are a friend to her husband? No!


:iagree:

She probably means being friends" with him too because she's friends with the woman. So, by extension, she's "friends" with both, like in she goes out with them, invites them over, etc...but she actually is friends with the wife.

Look from the selfish point of view, I understand not wanting to get involved in their marriage. I agree the guy should know- but selfishly, I wouldn't jump in the middle of the drama if I don't have to.
But to say she's the most honest person with integrity and to go to her for advice ? LOL ! Especially when you're a BS yourself. Read Daibai's thread about meeting with the OWH and had all the sympathy...now read this..I'm like "wtf?" 

Don't you look at her and think of the OW? cause I would...


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## Healer

hibiscus said:


> My best friend's husband doesn't want to speak it me anymore but I am hoping that I will get the chance to explain to him that I wasn't an enabler. I don't want him to think I was. :-/


I would write him a letter and tell him what happened and how you were torn by it. Tell him about this place and how you truly didn't know what to do but were going to give her an ultimatum.

A mutual friend and family member by marriage (she knew each of us before we knew each other) was privy to my stbxw's extra curricular activities. They went to the bar she works at and posom was there. She said nothing. I called her on it after we had split. She got defensive and said "what was I supposed to do? Ruin a marriage on a hunch?". It wasn't a hunch - she knew damn well what was going on.

She feigned and continues to feign love and support for me - but she should have told me. I don't think she was as torn as you were about it though. At least if I knew she was struggling and wanted to tell me but didn't know how - maybe that's the case but I doubt it.

Explain it to him. He may never forgive you anyway, but if I knew my "friend" was going through what you did, and saw what you were posting here, I would likely forgive her.


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## 86857

bandit.45 said:


> Hibiscus is your friend and her husband still living together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well said Bandit and EleGirl too. Sorry Hibiscus, didn't mean to contribute to the threadjack. 
You agonised over this as anyone would and even started a thread for advice. BS always say they would they want their friend to tell them. How selfish of your friend to put you in that position.
If you do email the husband as EleGirl suggests, perhaps ask him had he found out himself would he also have been angry if you didn't tell him. Add that you just couldn't watch him being cruelly deceived and be part of the deceit yourself. Say that you agonised over it and did a thread on a forum to seek advice. 
We can lose friends for all sorts of reasons, you may just have to be philosophical about it. He is in great pain and lashing out. He will likely see it differently when he starts to heal. He doesn't know it now but you have probably given him a precious gift, years of his life that he would have lived with a liar. 
Try not to take it personally nor give it too much headspace. Life is challenging enough as it is.


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## Mike_77

*R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> My best friend's husband doesn't want to speak it me anymore but I am hoping that I will get the chance to explain to him that I wasn't an enabler. I don't want him to think I was. :-/


You seem more interested in what this man thinks than about your best friend... who completely lost her life for an ONS.

To me all this thread seems very strange.
Or at least you really have your own way to interpreter friendship.


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## Aerith

*Re: R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Mike_77 said:


> You seem more interested in what this man thinks than about your best friend... who completely lost her life for an ONS.
> 
> To me all this thread seems very strange.
> Or at least you really have your own way to interpreter friendship.


My perception is BH was also a friend to some extent - and supported OP during her period of personal problems.

I understand OP - she is blamed for something she never did... It's normal that she tried to clear her name.

However, fully agree with you - it's too much punishment for ONS and I feel really sorry for BFF. However, it looks like she knew that infidelity is a deal breaker for her BH, so she knew "the rules of the game" and still was willing to take the risk and play.


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## The Middleman

I don't agree that the BFF is paying too much for a ONS. Her husband is doing what I would do under similar circumstances. This is the penalty one pays for infidelity. We don't hear often enough about cheaters getting what's coming to them at this site.

We know that Hibiscus's heart is in the right place because we have read the posts. However, put yourself in the BFF's husband's shoes. This is his cheating wife's best friend and he presumes that is where her loyalty is. He also knows that she was aware of the affair and said nothing. At best he thinks Hibiscus is an enabler and a first hand witness to his humiliation. He's just protecting himself.

My advice to Hibiscus is the same as when this started. Detach from you BFF and concentrate on your own life.


----------



## hibiscus

bandit.45 said:


> Hibiscus is your friend and her husband still living together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No he isn't. There is a law in the Uk that you cannot live with your spouse is you are divorcing him/her on the grounds of infedelity.


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## hibiscus

EleGirl said:


> Hibiscus, you are the OP.


Lol thanks Elegirl. I am not very familiar with these abbreviated words. Still learning.

I will send him an email but I think I will wait till he calms down. He is in a really bad place and I don't know if it's a good idea to make contact with him. I am also scared of rejection to tell the truth.


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## hibiscus

********** said:


> Well said Bandit and EleGirl too. Sorry Hibiscus, didn't mean to contribute to the threadjack.
> You agonised over this as anyone would and even started a thread for advice. BS always say they would they want their friend to tell them. How selfish of your friend to put you in that position.
> If you do email the husband as EleGirl suggests, perhaps ask him had he found out himself would he also have been angry if you didn't tell him. Add that you just couldn't watch him being cruelly deceived and be part of the deceit yourself. Say that you agonised over it and did a thread on a forum to seek advice.
> We can lose friends for all sorts of reasons, you may just have to be philosophical about it. He is in great pain and lashing out. He will likely see it differently when he starts to heal. He doesn't know it now but you have probably given him a precious gift, years of his life that he would have lived with a liar.
> Try not to take it personally nor give it too much headspace. Life is challenging enough as it is.


When I feel it's the right moment I will let him know that I still wish to be a friend. But I can't imagine he will want this as I am the best friend of his STBEW


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## hibiscus

*Re: R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Mike_77 said:


> You seem more interested in what this man thinks than about your best friend... who completely lost her life for an ONS.
> 
> To me all this thread seems very strange.
> Or at least you really have your own way to interpreter friendship.


Why is it strange? I have been a great support to my friend throughout this ordeal. I just refused to be a part of her deceit. Nothing wrong with that.


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## hibiscus

*Re: R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



Aerith said:


> My perception is BH was also a friend to some extent - and supported OP during her period of personal problems.
> 
> I understand OP - she is blamed for something she never did... It's normal that she tried to clear her name.
> 
> However, fully agree with you - it's too much punishment for ONS and I feel really sorry for BFF. However, it looks like she knew that infidelity is a deal breaker for her BH, so she knew "the rules of the game" and still was willing to take the risk and play.


All she thinks about is wanting to change the past. It must be an awful place to be in.


----------



## 86857

Just a thought and be warned I haven't read all the posts!
What if the BS discovered the ONS himself or from someone else other than his WS's friend. 
Would the outcome be different? Hardly. 
It's the BS who decides the 'punishment' 
Hibiscus telling him had nothing to do with the outcome, except that WS could have gotten away with it. 
That said, don't forget the ever-present dangers of STDs which throws a very different light on it. For me it would almost make it a moral obligation. 
Personally I like to know who I'm sleeping with. . . indirectly! Even if it was 'only' a ONS, I for one, for all sorts of reasons would want to know and I wouldn't care who told me. I'd thank them.


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## MattMatt

hibiscus said:


> No he isn't. There is a law in the Uk that you cannot live with your spouse is you are divorcing him/her on the grounds of infedelity.


Really? I didn't know that.


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## hibiscus

MattMatt said:


> Really? I didn't know that.


I think so. But I may be wrong


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## phillybeffandswiss

MattMatt said:


> Really? I didn't know that.


divorce law uk - adultery as a reason for divorce
Need a lawyer for the full interpretation, but:


> It should also be remembered that there are time limits involved in adultery. A person who intends petitioning for divorce on this ground must do so within six months of becoming aware of the adultery (which is not the same as within six months of it taking place) otherwise he/she is taken to have "condoned" it. This is rather a quaint word but the reality is that many marriages can survive adultery and the law merely recognises the fact. However, this six months period only applies if the parties continue to live together after the discovery. If they have not lived together for more than six months after finding out about the adultery then this time limit is not relevant.


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## hibiscus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> divorce law uk - adultery as a reason for divorce
> Need a lawyer for the full interpretation, but:


Interesting. Thank you


----------



## nogutsnoglory

*Re: R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



hibiscus said:


> All she thinks about is wanting to change the past. It must be an awful place to be in.


can we look at this a bit. A true ONS involves a person coming into contact once with a person and then it is over.
This BFF had no such relationship. She was flirting heavily and sexually with this OM for a very long time. Her H asked her about her relationship with the man and she lied to him about and and instead of heeding the warning her H gave her by being questioned as to the nature of her relationship she chose to embrace the OM at work in a hallway kiss to ignite the spark, and then a bit later she again puts herself further into PA mode and makes sure to be with the OM and drink and clearly was waiting for a move to be made. He made his move and she got into a car like a hooker and F**cked this guy. Your friend is an immoral slu7, and hopefully being exposed as a POS, will make her reevaluate how selfish she is. After all she has only really showed remorse as to how it affected her, not the damage that she did to her H. You are trying to be a good friend, in reality your H deserves for the two of you to have a good chance of R as that is the path you have chosen. For you to continue living in the shadows of such a selfish friend is IMO not good for the long run of your marriage. You will see your H in her selfishness and it will trigger your pain as it already has at points.
Do not contact the BF's STBXH, he knows you're not his friend, and he could care less if you knew for 7 hours or days or months. You chose to stay by her side and not tell him is all that matters to him. He deserves peace and you trying to lift guilt from your heart is not helping him. Leave him be.


----------



## MrMathias

*Re: R: Re: My best friend confessed to cheating a year ago. Do I tell her husband?*



nogutsnoglory said:


> can we look at this a bit. A true ONS involves a person coming into contact once with a person and then it is over.
> This BFF had no such relationship. She was flirting heavily and sexually with this OM for a very long time. Her H asked her about her relationship with the man and she lied to him about and and instead of heeding the warning her H gave her by being questioned as to the nature of her relationship she chose to embrace the OM at work in a hallway kiss to ignite the spark, and then a bit later she again puts herself further into PA mode and makes sure to be with the OM and drink and clearly was waiting for a move to be made.


Agreed there, I wouldn't call that scenario a ONS. It's pretty humiliating to approach your WW with concerns, then she goes EA, then PA. 

Being a moral person with integrity on the sidelines of an affair is a horrible place to be. Sorry you're there hibisicus. 

Several people knew of my WW's A. Two were toxic friends of both affair partners, one tried to get WW to pull her head out and confess, another 'was too afraid to tell' me. Initially I rained wrath on all of them, but have come around to at least being cordial to the one who advised my WW to tell me. She's okay in my book. In hindsight I wouldn't expect her to tell me, really, but then again she never had the chance to look me in the eye while she knew- unlike some of the others. I think she only knew a few days. 

It's really astonishing how the aftershocks of an affair shatter relationships outside the immediate affair couple. The collateral damage can be astronomical. I am often amazed at how many friendships (even ones not related to the affair at all) were irrevocably destroyed by my wife and her AP. 



> He deserves peace and you trying to lift guilt from your heart is not helping him. Leave him be.


I guess I'd agree with this, chalk it up as another casualty of your friend's horrible choice and move on.


----------



## Whip Morgan

H, 

If I were in your position, I'd give it time to cool. Then send a letter , short and to the point, that tou did not know, and explain what you told your friend. Hopefully that will help. Perhaps down the road he will come to understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

MissFroggie said:


> I'd send him a letter/email explaining you only just found out too and *were trying to get her to tell him and working out what to do*. .





Whip Morgan said:


> If I were in your position, I'd give it time to cool. Then send a letter , short and to the point,* that tou did not know, and explain what you told your friend.* Hopefully that will help. Perhaps down the road he will come to understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is a very good aptitude that you want to clarify things with him, but carefull how you do it, if you tell him something like I encouraged her to speak to you because she wanted to take the secret to her grave, or I told her that if she did not confess I will stop being her friend, you can blow up any hope of reconcilation.

you can use approach like, I found just one week before you, the guilt was eating her and wanted to know how I reacted before telling you but I supported her decission to tell you.

that is probably the true, maybe she just needed the little push you gave her.

be aware that maybe you can still affect a little the outcome of all this, and if she really is the person you have been describing in your thread, maybe the ONS was one in a life mistake and she may deserve a second chance.


----------



## Jasel

Update?


----------



## Differentguy

Mavash. said:


> Odds are if you told he wouldn't believe you. She'd deny it and you would be labeled crazy.


So we are playing the odds now? If I find out any of my friends knew about my wife's cheating, they can take a long walk on a short pier over a volcano. Be a friend to her, or a friend to their marriage. It's not always the same thing.

You need to find a better friend.

Edit-Sigh. commenting to a really really old comment.


----------

