# Successful strategies for chipping away at inhibitions



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Some other threads have been picking at the edges of this topic. I'd like to promote it to a full discussion.

Were you or have you been married to a sexually ultra-conservative spouse? How did you manage to come out of your shell, or what did you do to get your spouse to open up? I don't want to drill down into the details of any one act or behavior, since what I'm looking for is really not one act or fantasy but a more open overall attitude towards sex. To frame the argument, here's the current situation with my wife -

She truly enjoys sex at about the once-a-week frequency. She's highly and easily orgasmic - nearly every time, and in the past multi-orgasmic, though that's waned in recent years. She understands the necessity of sex in an intimate relationship. But her definition of what constitutes acceptable sex is, shall we say, somewhat limited:

Sex is by definition PIV, face-to-face
Foreplay FTMP does not allow touching of breasts or her genitals
Toys are largely unacceptable with the exception of a vibrating c*ck ring that can be worn during PIV. Anything not used during PIV is disallowed.
Oral sex from either partner is so disgusting as to be unthinkable
Erotica is uninteresting at best.

Over the years, the small victories she likes to champion as her willingness to change include things like allowing a light on in the room during sex.

Suggestions for "taking it slow" in other threads include things that I have tried and primarily failed with. Showering together was politely but permanently declined. We live on a couple of acres our in the middle of nowhere, but a sexy picnic in the trees is too risque. A good friend hosts "Passion parties", which she has attended and made the scandalous purchase of massage lotion. 

I have recently been more forceful in trying to expand our sexual repertoire, and have had a few small boundaries expanded, but these all feel like Pyrrhic victories in that they are tolerated at best, never enjoyed, and don't translate into anything beyond momentary acquiescence to a demand. 

There are those of you out there who claim to have found the way out of this view of sexuality. What ultimately was the trigger? How did you change your mind?


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## wildside (Aug 23, 2011)

My wife is very conservative as well. She usually has a litany of excuses as to why she doesn't do certain things. Passionate kissing? It's too gross unless we both have JUST brushed our teeth. Oral on me? My penis is too big for her mouth (this may be true). Oral on her? Acceptable assuming she has showered within the last hour or two. Sexual positions? Missionary and doggie style. That's it. Toys? We have some that I insisted we buy (hoping it would spark things up), and they sit unused for the most part. 

For reference, my wife is 26 and we have two kids. We're both in great shape and pretty much look like we did when we first met. She hasn't really changed since we first met either. This is pretty much always how it's been. There is no history of abuse, or anything like that. She is just generally grossed out by most sexual activities. 

I have been successful in two ways with her when it comes to getting her to open and do more. 1) Totally deny her everything. But not in a pouty, complaining way. I will just get "busy with life". Passion with her falls by the wayside and I don't ask for anything. After awhile, she picks up the slack for a few days. I think she feels threatened when things go like this for a few days. 2) Alcohol. My wife doesn't drink often, but when she does, this whole new person comes out. Inhibitions disappear, and passionate times are had by all. When I ask her about it the next day, and tell her how fun it was, she says something along the lines of "it's a once in awhile thing". An argument ensues if I press for it to become a "regular" thing. 

Good luck to you, sir. I would love to learn some secrets if there are any. My advice is denial for a few days, and alcohol. That's the best I have for you.


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## Frozen001 (May 31, 2012)

Pretty much in the same boat as you... sex im my marrage when I ahve it is pretty much the same every time. She prefers to be on top, and occasionally she will like missionary after she O's. Oral is pretty much out with the rare BJ if I bug her enough for it. That is it. I have asked, tried other things, but she will either say no, or complain how "uncomfortable/awkard" it is. Oral on her use to happen occasionally, but now it out of the question it is "too gross". I do wish it would change, just have not figured out how to get it to happen.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Makes me think of a quote I heard once... "men lead lives of quiet desperation". Only appropriate because the posts so far are all from men though there are plenty of women who feel the same way. My situation is not as severe as any of this but I can relate. I will never understand how you can love someone and yet be so unresponsive to their needs/wants.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think, if you try to explore with the things she is comfortable with, you may find she is more willing to open up to other things, if even just a little. If she really only likes PIV, then try all the positions you can find. Expand that to using different furniture or "swings". Make your very best effort toward her "satisfaction". Hope you find a way for both of you to be happy. I haven't followed your situation, but was hoping to help a little with suggestions. I don't know what you have tried.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

SA will be along shortly to answer this one!


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hello Cletus, You are an excellent writer. Something about your writing style and choice of words I found very readable and enjoyable. Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, I'm guessing that you've probably tried every suggestion people here could possibly think of , but I'll throw out a few. Have you tried a sex game, or getting a sex book of new positions, or tell you that you'd like to try new things and read these books in bed together, and tell her a new thing you've read that you'd like to try. I had some inhibitions (still do) but I was brave enough to express some of them on a weekend away at a lover's only resort that had a pool, hot tub, porn on TV. It was sex all weekend long. Would she do it/try it because it makes you happy, although I have to say, when I asked my husband to play 'pleasure island' which involved very light B&D (blindfolding - which we did with a sock), I know that he just humored me and didn't really enjoy it himself. But we tried other things during that weekend and still do them back at home.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think when you talk too much about sex from the get-go, you screw yourself over. Some of the things i have done in bed/do in bed i would have thought were crazy or terrible if my husband asked me about it. Why not just hop into bed and do what feels good and natural.

Im prob over simplifying this....but to me it is simple. If it is your spouse....then nothing is "gross" IMO


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## opensesame (Dec 19, 2012)

I agree with missymrs80. When she's really into it, getting close, why not try something simple like just flipping her over and trying it doggy style? If you think she wouldn't react well to you taking control in that way, you could just ask her. People agree to all kinds of things when they're in the heat of the moment.


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## radolmoniqe (Dec 21, 2012)

I would love to learn some secrets if there are any. My advice is denial for a few days, and alcohol. That's the best I have for you.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

The basic method that I have used (but not on someone as inhibited as your wife) is a three step.

1) Get her really aroused and horny first. This part is critical. 
2) Do what she is comfortable with. Missionary PIV in this case.
3) Do what she is uncomfortable with. It should be something easy to switch to. Doggy style might even be too big of a leap. Maybe try holding both feet by the ankles so her legs are straight in the air and bang her that way for a while. Or take both of her wrists in one hand and hold them above her head firmly while your doing it. Dominate her *a little bit*. Anything to kind of shake up the routine a little bit without sending her into shock.

The challenge is, you have to risk ruining the good sex you are having in order to have great sex. If you make sure she is really aroused, and don't go for too big of a leap in step 3, it normally works. Then you can incorporate that move into your regular repertoire. It's up to you to burn it into the regular routine by doing it frequently. The key is to take small steps and make sure the experience is positive for her.

But she might get mad at you for trying something different. Don't be afraid of that. If it does turn into a fight, stand your ground. You didn't do anything wrong, trying something new in the sack is not a crime. If it turns into a big fight and she uses her alleged accomplishments (allowing the light to be on for example) against you, just say it's not enough. You expect more. That is not a crime either as long as your expectations are fairly modest.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks all for the suggestions. Many I've tried, a few I haven't, and I'll ponder the possibilities.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

What worked for my wife was talking. She kind of looked at sex as an optional hobby of sorts. When I was able to (lovingly and gently) let her know this was more than a hobby to me but a psychological and almost physiological need for me she began to understand. I had tried a lot of things to get her to "see the light" regarding my sexual needs but what finally worked was just talking to her about them.

Also just getting her to try something once also worked. My wife was totally against my desire to go to a naturist resort. I told her to just try it once see what the atmosphere was like and if she didn't like it she didn't have to undress and we'd never go back.

Now she asks when we can go again. Your mileage may vary but sometimes it's as easy as letting them know your needs and why. So you have to understand your needs too. And sometimes it's just getting them (in a gentle and loving way) to try something new and see if they like it. And reassuring them that it's okay to like it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

IslandGirl3 said:


> Hello Cletus, You are an excellent writer. Something about your writing style and choice of words I found very readable and enjoyable. Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, I'm guessing that you've probably tried every suggestion people here could possibly think of , but I'll throw out a few. Have you tried a sex game, or getting a sex book of new positions, or tell you that you'd like to try new things and read these books in bed together, and tell her a new thing you've read that you'd like to try. I had some inhibitions (still do) but I was brave enough to express some of them on a weekend away at a lover's only resort that had a pool, hot tub, porn on TV. It was sex all weekend long. Would she do it/try it because it makes you happy, although I have to say, when I asked my husband to play 'pleasure island' which involved very light B&D (blindfolding - which we did with a sock), I know that he just humored me and didn't really enjoy it himself. But we tried other things during that weekend and still do them back at home.


Thank you, you're too kind.

The "home remedies" have been applied liberally and failed just as spectacularly. I brought "101 Nights of Great Sex", and she found something like four that sounded acceptable. It's much more than a lack of imagination.

Were you just inhibited about sex or did you find large portions of it disgusting or somehow wrong? Were you overcoming simple disinterest, aversion, guilt, or embarrassment? 

I have not tried the lover's resort. I'm afraid that if I did, you'd never hear from me alive again.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I am going to add one more piece of knowledge here. If you are going to see meaningful, enduring change, the change process will start fairly early in the sexual relationship.

IME, you typically get one of three following scenarios:

1) She is open and comfortably with you sexually from the beginning, and your relationship reflects that.

2) She is timid at first but warms up fairly quickly, so that within several weeks to a couple of months you guys are on your way to that open relationship you seek.

3) She is not motivated to lose her inhibitions and you settle into a vanilla (and often unsatisfying) sexual routine early on.

Generally, a situation where a lady opens up after several years of inhibition is very rare. In can happen (as SA will personally attest) but in IMO the odds of that happening are so low as to be negligible. 

My rule of thumb is if, after six months, there hasn't been an upward trend, assume it is as good as it ever will be and decide whether that is enough. If it is, consider anything better a bonus and don't continue to push. She has a low sex threshold and will come to resent attempts to spice things up.

If is not good enough to satisfy over the long term, start getting your exit strategy ready.

ETA: I really don't think you can chip away at someone else's inhibitions or "bring someone out of their shell". The person has to want to lose those inhibitions, and whether they are willing to put in the work to do so will become evident very early in the sexual relationship.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

DTO said:


> I am going to add one more piece of knowledge here. If you are going to see meaningful, enduring change, the change process will start fairly early in the sexual relationship.
> 
> IME, you typically get one of three following scenarios:
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with you overall but I am a little more hopeful for the OP. It works better at the beginning of the relationship because she is eager to impress and please you because the ongoing relationship is not a given. But she will find that she enjoys doing those things that were previously outside the comfort zone.

Once she starts taking you for granted then there is no motivation to get outside of her comfort zone, even though she might enjoy it if she did. 

Approaches like the MAP work by making her stop taking you for granted, making her want sex with you in order to cement the emotional bond and to keep you from running off with someone else. Just as it can be used to get more sex, it can be used to get better sex.

What I am saying is that the beginning period of the relationship is not magical except for the fact that is the time when she is most motivated to sex you really good, by your definition, in order to lock you in to a relationship. I think this can be done later on as well, but it requires a willingness to upend the status quo and put the relationship into some amount of chaos.


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

My wife and I actually went to one of those toy parties together and that opened things up a little.

I think its all about communication.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

You should get her 50 Shades of Grey, then sit back and wait for the magic. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

east2west said:


> I tend to agree with you overall but I am a little more hopeful for the OP. It works better at the beginning of the relationship because she is eager to impress and please you because the ongoing relationship is not a given. But she will find that she enjoys doing those things that were previously outside the comfort zone.
> 
> Once she starts taking you for granted then there is no motivation to get outside of her comfort zone, even though she might enjoy it if she did.
> 
> ...


Well, the first thing is that if she is failing to do something she would enjoy at the outset, that is not an inhibition. Rather, that is a power play or sh!t test.

That being said, I don't disagree with your approach to these issues. I did a 180 / NMMNG thing and agree it's a great way to drive change. But, it often fails for an understandable reason.

My take is that when you successfully implement that program, your spouse did not necessarily overcome the inhibition in the sense of that activity now being an enjoyable part of sex. I feel that - sometimes - lasting change reflects a partner who "sucks it up" because that is better than the alternative. And, of course, that program can fail to improve the sex because the spouse weighs the pros and cons of "sucking it up" differently.

To clarify - there's nothing wrong with a person making that sacrifice for his or her spouse. In fact, I feel that an inhibition allowed to cause marital strife has become a phobia, which by definition is irrational and needs to be corrected. I'm just noting that "overcoming" is more than just "tolerating", which is often what you get with a MAP, 180, etc.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

DTO said:


> Well, the first thing is that if she is failing to do something she would enjoy at the outset, that is not an inhibition. Rather, that is a power play or sh!t test.
> 
> That being said, I don't disagree with your approach to these issues. I did a 180 / NMMNG thing and agree it's a great way to drive change. But, it often fails for an understandable reason.
> 
> ...


Well no one said that those programs work 100% of the time. It just happens to be the best course of action in a lot of situations.

Also I don't think that getting your wife to tolerate sex with you is the goal of running the MAP. In fact I think that if that is what happens you are doing it wrong. The goal is to attract your spouse. Attract means that they want to have sex with you because it feels good for them. Not that they are coerced into giving it up more frequently.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Thanks all for the suggestions. Many I've tried, a few I haven't, and I'll ponder the possibilities.


Cletus, something that has worked for me is a massage table. Buy an inexpensive table on ebay, along with some scented oils... I am using honeysuckle essence in sweet almond oil. 

Tell her you think you/she has been too tense lately, and that a few nice massages should help you/her relax. There are lots of videos on you tube that show all levels of massage, and you should ask her to look at some not TOO erotic ones. 

Trade off back rubs with her. Start slowly, let her wear a robe or towel, and massage under it. don't touch the breasts or vag yet. After a couple of really nice "back rubs" she will see how much a covering interferes with her pleasure, and you will have her naked on the table...It couldn't hurt to work in a glass or two of wine, or a ****tail before getting on the table, and dimming the lights or some candles could make her less bashful....

After a couple of long slow sensual sessions on the table, she will be quivering under your well oiled hands anticipating your touch on her most intimate regions...:smthumbup:

The height of the table is adjustable, so sex with you standing is quite easy, and then her bent over the end of the table is quite natural. Oral on her is easy, and when you are standing, your equipment is right in her face too....I got grabbed unexpectedly the last time...WOW...

I have found we have a success rate of close to 90% on the table.....My wife quickly associated the table with PLEASURE, and is always ready to open it up.:smthumbup:

...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LdyVenus said:


> You should get her 50 Shades of Grey, then sit back and wait for the magic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, 50 Shades made it into the house on the advice of a few co-workers.

I was there when she hit the first scene involving oral sex, as the book was tossed to the floor with a "Oh Hell, no!"

Was that the kind of magic you were anticipating?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Cletus, something that has worked for me is a massage table. Buy an inexpensive table on ebay, along with some scented oils... I am using honeysuckle essence in sweet almond oil.
> ...


I've had the massage table for 10 years now. 

A good whole body massage is NOT free license to touch any naughty bits. That gets met with a "Um, what are you doing?" in that tone most husbands recognize as code for "would you like to lose that hand now or later?"

Thanks for the hints anyway.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

farside said:


> My wife and I actually went to one of those toy parties together and that opened things up a little.
> 
> I think its all about communication.


Our next door neighbor is a Passion Parties distributor, and the wife has been to one. She brought home a toy for me (not for two-party use), some massage oil, and what I think was a freebie small discrete vibrator, which sits in the unopened package two years out. 

"You don't think I'm actually going to put something like that inside of me, do you?"

I do have a vibrating ring that can be used hands-free during PIV, so it is on the occasionally acceptable list. But that doesn't really add much in the way of variety because of the limitations on use.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

east2west said:


> I tend to agree with you overall but I am a little more hopeful for the OP. It works better at the beginning of the relationship because she is eager to impress and please you because the ongoing relationship is not a given. But she will find that she enjoys doing those things that were previously outside the comfort zone.
> 
> Once she starts taking you for granted then there is no motivation to get outside of her comfort zone, even though she might enjoy it if she did.
> 
> ...


At this point, a seismic shift in the relationship may be what's required to discover if any meaningful change is even possible. 

It's worth a shot.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

I find that drinking wine and foot massages are good ways to relax my wife's inhibitions. Someone else mentioned the massage table, and I second that. My wife is naturally LD and apprehensive to try new things, but once she starts to get in the mood, she relaxes and enjoys. Foreplay has become more and more important in our home as we both have gotten older. (49 years old now) My wife and I both know what our sexual needs are....and that took lots of communication over the years. She does more NOW that she knows sex is so important to me.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Wait til a certain someone comes in here and says. "You have no right to expect your wife to lose her inhibitions."


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> At this point, a seismic shift in the relationship may be what's required to discover if any meaningful change is even possible.
> 
> It's worth a shot.


This may be the way to go. I've done some shifting and got temporary results.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Some other threads have been picking at the edges of this topic. I'd like to promote it to a full discussion.
> 
> Were you or have you been married to a sexually ultra-conservative spouse? How did you manage to come out of your shell, or what did you do to get your spouse to open up? I don't want to drill down into the details of any one act or behavior, since what I'm looking for is really not one act or fantasy but a more open overall attitude towards sex. To frame the argument, here's the current situation with my wife -
> 
> ...


Well I can only speak about my personal experience.... I used to do oral for a bit as foreplay I thought I was doing a good job but husband during one of our weekly sex counseling talks (did this at home on our own) and discussed likes, dislikes, needs and wants, he informed me he felt like it was up and down a couple times while he had no problem going down on me for almost an hour (to no avail because I couldn't let go of insecurities and still struggle with that).... He informed me what I was doing was pointless he wanted more... so I went online and did some research on how to give a good bj.... just reading it and the way the girl worded how one would feel to feel their partners P grow harder in their mouth...yea turned me on, so I just gave it a try... all the way. I couldn't take him fully so he suggested I use my hand... 
In another way, I opened up to talking about sex in general. Before I just didn't want to discuss it. I think the key is get your wife to ask her friends what they find normal or not in the bedroom, maybe if she talks with friends (i know I did) and found I was absolutely not in the norm with having an aversion to bjs... so that might help... I would also let her know that your lack of satisfaction is probably affecting your relationship in other areas. Ask her if you can do a compromise or trade off is there something she wants you to do (maybe even outside the bedroom) that you could do in return for her trying something new?


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Wait til a certain someone comes in here and says. "You have no right to expect your wife to lose her inhibitions."


Yep.....I know that is going to happen MrBrains...


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> Yep.....I know that is going to happen MrBrains...


That poor soul.


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## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

Shame, insecurities, religion, conservative upbringing and a ton of other things can create a mindset that keeps one limited. It may come about that she will step out of her comfort zone a bit and try new things, but she has to be willing to take that first step. 

Communication is vital. Set aside a time when you are alone and talk about what you would like and what she likes and would be willing to try. Make a list of things you have not tried, but may want to and talk about them. You may find several things that you can compromise on a bit and broaden horizons. 

Talking about my desires and such was not an easy thing for me in the beginning. It has taken me years to let go of limiting beliefs and step out of my comfort zone. Doing so has paid of in spades though, and I highly recommend it to others.


You might check out this blog A Place for Passion and see if there is any information on there that would be of interest to her.

Books I found helpful:
How to satisfy a woman every time and have her begging for more......by Naura Hayden
How to be a great lover...by Lou Paget (Wonderful techniques in this book, tell her to skip the parts she doesn't like, maybe come back to them later)
How to give her absolute pleasure.....by Lou Paget
Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts....by Regena Thomashauer
Mama Gena's Marriage Manual

Many women I know, like a man to take a bit of control. You can still be loving and sensual, but it can be a big turn on to be pushed up against the wall and kissed like you will starve to death without that kiss.

Sensual exploration can be a great way to open up communication and the potential for trying new things. Set aside time that she will lay there and let you explore all of her body, using different touches (soft-firm), textures and temperatures. Spend 10-30 second minimum on each touch, then she tells you how that feels to her, using a scale of 1-10 is helpful.

After you have explored her, she will then have a session of exploring you. The key here is to explore head to toe, massage is good, but variety of touches is a must, as is the feedback about how the touches feel. This kind of exploration may be out of her comfort zone, so you could always separate the session into half of your body one time, then the other half another time, although all in one session is best. 

Keep it fun and light. Try playing together to open up a level of comfort with play so exploration doesn't seem so scary. Games, water fights and all kinds of fun things you did as a kid can be incorporated into adulthood. 

Role playing is also a good way to enable your partner to step outside of their comfort zone. Playing a role, rather than being who she expects herself to be can be liberating. She may hesitate about doing this, but you can play with this a bit. If she gets grumpy, you could pout, say how sorry you are and bring her a paddle (belt or maybe wooden spoon) to spank you for your bad behavior. Just one idea. 

Best of luck!


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I'd kill to get my wife to do half the stuff she told me about before we started dating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Sbrown said:


> I'd kill to get my wife to do half the stuff she told me about before we started dating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The ole' B&S got ya.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Thanks all for the suggestions. Many I've tried, a few I haven't, and I'll ponder the possibilities.


Cletus, have you tried some really good "WEED"?.....No my wife would never even consider that, she won't even drink more than one drink with me....Fortunately although my wife was very naïve about sex, she responded well to me taking the upper hand, and firmly initiating "NEW" things....Is your wifes reluctance religious or just upbringing? There are lots of Old Testament references about just what a wife should be willing to submit to...Just a thought....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm just wondering if it might work to consider allowing one of the steps forward to be temporarily reversed while a new thing is tried. In particular, how about allowing the lights to be off but trading that for trying a new position? She might feel less self-conscious if you can't really see her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

There are so many reasons why a person hesitates or denies themselves a sexual explorative mind set. It's almost impossible to find the key that opens the door and lets them out.

Her mind is where the key is, so begin with her mind. When I began my own awakening the first thing I had to do was decide NOT to allow my past to dictate my future. There were many hurdles, fixations, road blacks and pitfalls, but making the decision to keep moving forward was the only way to confront those issues and move them the hell out of the way. I had to admit I was broken. I next had to admit I needed to be fixed.

What happened from that point on is a long journey. In the beginning it was terrifying! My husband had already been in shut down mode for years, add to that I knew I was on my own to get through some things anyway.

So the basic question is Cletus, how do you get your wife to agree that her limited and self imposed restrictions needs to change? You just tell her flat out and straight up.

"You need to change." As spouses we're not supposed to say this. But as adults who are still evolving, always learning and growing it is our collective responsibility to help each other along the path of personal growth. Your wife needs to change her mindset that being so restrictive is okay. It's not okay. 

"I want us to explore a less restrictive sex life and to do that, you need to change." Children used to be called poly-peverted. Anything that felt good, they repeated. Anything that felt bad, they avoided. Your wife got her signals crossed that something that feels good is bad. She needs to embrace that fundamental fallacy for exactly how wrong that is.

These are discussions to have, topics to explore. She will try to shut them down. She will get mad at you, pout and sulk and all kinds of anxious avoidant behavior. Take it like a man and keep moving forward. Just as you have over the years accepted her limitations, she now has to cope with the fact that you no longer accept them and in fact are changing the game. In other words, you gotta break some eggs to make an omelet.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> There are so many reasons why a person hesitates or denies themselves a sexual explorative mind set. It's almost impossible to find the key that opens the door and lets them out.


That supposes that someone's on the other side of the door waiting for it to open. I'm not convinced that there is.

Rule #1 when asking for advice is don't argue with those trying to help. However, I think we respect each other enough here for a little back and forth, so here goes.



> Her mind is where the key is, so begin with her mind. When I began my own awakening the first thing I had to do was decide NOT to allow my past to dictate my future. There were many hurdles, fixations, road blacks and pitfalls, but making the decision to keep moving forward was the only way to confront those issues and move them the hell out of the way. I had to admit I was broken. I next had to admit I needed to be fixed.


Why did you feel broken? What was the catalyst that made you say "no mas"? An unfulfilling marriage? Threat of divorce? My wife doesn't think she's broken at all - she won't say it outright to me, but she surely thinks the problem is mine to fix. And you know what? I agree that she's not broken. She's highly orgasmic and enjoys sex in what I would call her extremely limited way, but what she would call comfortable and reassuring. Sexual expression is a distributed trait. People to the left or right of the average can still be part of the norm.

If someone doesn't feel broken, I can't imagine how you go about convincing them to change.



> What happened from that point on is a long journey. In the beginning it was terrifying! My husband had already been in shut down mode for years, add to that I knew I was on my own to get through some things anyway.
> 
> So the basic question is Cletus, how do you get your wife to agree that her limited and self imposed restrictions needs to change? You just tell her flat out and straight up.


Why?

Why does she need to change? Because I'm unhappy and because our marriage is suffering? Why does the burden land mostly on her shoulders to change if she's not broken and I'm not broken?

If it's a quid-pro-quo thing, then I suppose I have done my portion of the compromising. As far as I can see, this is the only real leverage that I can bring to an argument - that I've done my part, now I expect you to do yours. Oh, and by-the-way, I expect you to enjoy it.



> "You need to change." As spouses we're not supposed to say this. But as adults who are still evolving, always learning and growing it is our collective responsibility to help each other along the path of personal growth. Your wife needs to change her mindset that being so restrictive is okay. It's not okay.


I don't have a problem with this, never have. I would put more effort into the things I should work on if I thought there was a payoff in the end.



> "I want us to explore a less restrictive sex life and to do that, you need to change." Children used to be called poly-peverted. Anything that felt good, they repeated. Anything that felt bad, they avoided. Your wife got her signals crossed that something that feels good is bad. She needs to embrace that fundamental fallacy for exactly how wrong that is.


So here's where we part ways the most.

This year, for the first time ever at my insistence, she has allowed the smallest amount of experimentation - she allowed me to touch her as part of foreplay maybe a half dozen times. It was pretty much a failure. Not a weepy marriage destroying kind of failure, just a "I don't understand why you want to do this, I don't enjoy it" kind of failure [please don't get stuck on this single example and say "try something else" - I have, this is just a representative episode.] 

She doesn't get pleasure from these things, even in the moment. She doesn't masturbate because it just isn't enjoyable. I patiently asked for guidance on what to do - she can't give any because there is none to give. She bought a small vibrator from her best friend's Passion Party. It sat unopened in a drawer for a year. 

I could make this a very long post outlining my sex life in excruciating detail, but the summary is simple: forcing someone to be more open about sex does not guarantee that you find the sexual free spirit hidden inside. Especially when there is no such being there to be found.

A lot of things you and I consider a basic part of sex she finds repulsive. The thought of oral sex either way makes her feel physically ill. Repulsions and phobias are not things that are easily if ever overcome. 

I'm not being Debbie Downer about this here - I'm just a hard core realist who thinks the power of positive thinking is just so much drivel when it doesn't match reality. On the other hand, you've been through this, so I can't dismiss your advice, because it just might be pertinent.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Cletus said:


> If someone doesn't feel broken, I can't imagine how you go about convincing them to change.


I have always believed that in a context of a relationship I should hold important everything that she feels important and vice versa. I believe that this is the basis for a happy ever after.

It seems to me that this is not the case with your wife?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> I have always believed that in a context of a relationship I should hold important everything that she feels important and vice versa. I believe that this is the basis for a happy ever after.
> 
> It seems to me that this is not the case with your wife?


No more so than how important I should value respecting her boundaries. This is why, time and again, you'll hear me repeat that the problem is the relationship, not the individuals. 

I will freely admit that not doing something you like is less of a sacrifice than repeatedly doing something you don't like.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Within the fundamental values of relationship (respect, fidelity, etc.) I value her needs and wants more than my boundaries. My wife feels the same. Therefore we have pushed each other boundaries to have a more fulfilling relationship. 

In my view relationship should be an union of wants and desires not an intersection.

I, for example, had an aversion for blood therefore I avoided sex during her period. She complained about that. It was a year long journey and sometimes pretty uncomfortable for me but I got rid of it and we are better for it.

Just for comparison I fainted last time when the doctor drew blood for labs and I viewed sex during period repulsive.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm compelled to share some of my past life with you Cletus. Not to make you feel like DebbieDowner, but just to counter the notion that it can never change. For some people, it can.

In my late 20's, I met a very bad boy. He wasn't marriage material, at all. He taught me a lot. I learned my sense of sexuality. Bluntly, I will say that the key was he pushed me. The thing that helped me the most? He talked me into watching porn with him. Didn't expect me to do anything. But it did put the whole sex thing into the open, I had never even watched it, and there was such a range of things going on. He spent time encouraging me, and I learned to enjoy it. A lot.

I think the key was the "viewing" it and that he didn't expect sex out of it. Started with softer stuff, then gradually into specifically what HE liked. He commented on it here and there, and the point of what he showed me was the pleasure. 
I honestly told him I'd never gotten that part of it, he felt it was a challenge I think to show me, teach me. 

I was Catholic. In my teens, if I went out anywhere, my foster mom would follow me into my room and demand to see if my underwear was wet. I was assaulted when I was 25, and needed a great deal of help in getting over that. I had a few hurdles. 

I never had an O until I was 28, and I didn't know what it was. 
I had a partner at the time that really did encourage me to be vulnerable and allow it. It was in my head, that's all. I had to be trusting and vulnerable. 

The pleasure part of it turned my mind over to accepting it. 
I swear, that guy spent a lot of time just trying to get me to relax, massages, exploring, trying different things. After a few times together, he finally got there. He also "talked" a lot while he was doing this. Not really truly dirty talk... but kept talking to me about why he wanted me to feel it. I don't know how else to explain it. Just reassured me that it was okay to feel it.


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## Bonnie (Nov 16, 2012)

I say take her out, dont eat too much, get her some wine or whatever she likes, and take control. As a woman, looking at book and talking about whatever is just not going to get me moving. Be aggressive. Im also like most of these wives, inhibited, but my husband is sometimes aggressive, not in a forceful way, but persistant, kissing, and all that stuff when I m in the kitchen cooking and our little one is in her room not paying attention. I think this works. I think oral is just gross also, you need to go wash everything, including your booty. And that may probably never change unless theres something in it for me. like if i do that are you going to finish all the laundry, take me shopping and hold the bags...lol.....but what always works is alcohol!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> That supposes that someone's on the other side of the door waiting for it to open. I'm not convinced that there is.
> 
> Rule #1 when asking for advice is don't argue with those trying to help. However, I think we respect each other enough here for a little back and forth, so here goes.
> 
> ...


*It is understood for a woman to enjoy oral sex, she must relax and feel comfortable, get over inhibitions so a response can be felt. This is the same for your wife, only magnified and generalized. Touch = Pleasure except for your wife. Thats the broken part.*


There is a lid for every pot. This is believe. An agoraphobic really should be cured of their fear, to enjoy life. But if the agoraphobic is content and happy, their spouse is content and happy going out along when it is neccessary and staying home 90% of the time, there is no need to cure the agoraphobia. But it remains a phobia that prevents full and complete enjoyment of life.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Bonnie said:


> And that may probably never change unless theres something in it for me. like if i do that are you going to finish all the laundry, take me shopping and hold the bags.


If this is true this is bad news for your husband. That is what we call s**t tests.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

> First, let me apologize for posting in this old thread. It seems apparent now that you are no longer seeking advice to have a less restrictive sex life with your wife. But on the chance you are debating based on how she would respond to you, I'll muddle through. Be warned though, it's been a long day for and I am dog tired!


There's nothing anyone has said in this thread that I haven't already tried, with one exception: don't take "no" for an answer.

This scares me. I'm uncomfortable turning myself into what I view as a marital date-rapist. If I put my head between her legs and get it forcefully pushed away, how much physical effort am I supposed to use to see to it that it happens? Where's the line between taking control and being disrespectful or downright abusive? 

If this is what's truly needed, then I need to add some tools to my toolkit.


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## DiverGal (Apr 1, 2013)

Ok, well what about this - I'M the one with inhibitions... not a whole list, but I still have some. For example, I can't masturbate in front of my husband. He has tried - slowly guiding my hand down there while he was pleasuring me and I jerked it away so quickly it shocked even me. Talking dirty is another one.. I just can't seem to do it. It's on the tip of my tongue but I just can't seem to get it to come out of my mouth. 

I'm not sure WHY I have some of these "issues", and I am very comfortable and feel "safe" with my husband, so why I can't do certain things, I don't know. :/


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

DiverGal said:


> I'm not sure WHY I have some of these "issues", and I am very comfortable and feel "safe" with my husband, so why I can't do certain things, I don't know. :/


That is precisely the answer I get, just with a longer list.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

DiverGal said:


> Ok, well what about this - I'M the one with inhibitions... not a whole list, but I still have some. For example, I can't masturbate in front of my husband. He has tried - slowly guiding my hand down there while he was pleasuring me and I jerked it away so quickly it shocked even me. Talking dirty is another one.. I just can't seem to do it. It's on the tip of my tongue but I just can't seem to get it to come out of my mouth.
> 
> I'm not sure WHY I have some of these "issues", and I am very comfortable and feel "safe" with my husband, so why I can't do certain things, I don't know. :/


WOW....Diver Girl....are you MY WIFE?????????????????????  Do you happen to have strawberry blond hair, with green eyes? You really do sound.....word for word.....just like my Princess!!!!!


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## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

Society creates a lot of shame in these regards for women. 

Good girls behave just so.
Don't act/dress like a ****.
Blah, blah, blah, the list goes on and on. 

Getting past all this crap, takes time and effort. She has to want to let go of the limiting beliefs. It is amazing how freeing it is to let this crap go, but scary how fast that conditioning can pop right back into your head.

Lots of focus and practice at releasing these limiting beliefs is necessary to get rid of years of this kind of conditioning. These are still things that are in our faces daily, so you have to learn to shrug off that type of people and thinking.

For me, all this has been a product of my journey. I made a decision that I no longer wanted to be the shy, introverted girl that lived a tiny life, just surviving. I want more from my life. I want joy and freedom, love and passion. I want confidence to step up and say "this is me, if you don't like it, there is the door." 

I refuse to let others opinions of me hold me down any longer. I still have to work on this every day, but I have made a ton of progress and I am looking forward to more growth.

I wish I knew what to tell you to get her to make that first step. Often times when one partner starts along this journey, the other will be inspired to try a bit as well.


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