# Opposite Sex Friends..Doable?



## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi,
Back here for some further advice.

I do not have many close friends left in our city. Two of them happen to be female. Both of them are divorced.

We get along great and have gone out at times to different events, drinks, lunches on our own. They are separate from my wife for no reason in particular. There has never been suggestions for the three of us to go out.

However, I still like to get together with my two female friends. My wife says she fully trusts me, but it seems to be my friends she doesn't fully trust. My friendship with my "female friends" mean a lot to me since most of my "guy friends" have moved away. It means nothing to me that they are female, and nothing would ever happen. My wife might not trust them, but I would never break the vow I made with my wife..period. So they might "try something" down the road but it will be rejected. I am not ever crossing that line. If I ever decide to, I will be ending my marriage first because obviously something is amiss.

I do not have a physical nor emotional relationship with these female friends. We just hang out, and it is not daily or weekly even. Maybe see them twice a month each. 

Is it a matter of trust at the end of the day? I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that if my wife trusts me then there shouldn't be an issue with this.

Is it uncommon to spend time with opposite sex friends? Am I out of line for pushing this (which I am planning to again)? Is my wife out of line? Any comments would be appreciated
Cheers,
FF


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## Gman (Jun 11, 2010)

There's a chickflick out there that I happen to like (don't tell anyone) called "When Harry Met Sally. There is a lengthy conversation throughout the film that revolves around the idea that "a man and woman be never TRULY be friends because the sex part always gets in the way." This observation, in my experience, rings true.

I happen to have female friends, but there is ALWAYS something there... an opposite sex-thing that has the potential to destroy everything. Yes, it's a trust thing, but more importantly, it's a human thing. If your wife has a problem with it, maybe you should too.

Gman


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Going out drinking with 2 female friends $40

Getting hammered and things happen $200

Wife finding out about drunken night out, priceless

For everything else there is the xxxxxxxx card.

Remember, you may find no attraction to both of them when dead sober. But you're still a guy in the end and if one of those nights just too much alcohol is flowing....You're still a guy!

I've woken up with girls that I would never in a million years have any attraction to if I was sober. Friends are fine and all but with opposite sexes you have to be extra careful. You might just consider them as friends but you never know if one or both have always harbored some long lost feeling for you from who knows when.

Doesn't take too much for a women to seduce a man, especially with enough alcohol involved. And you won't even realize it till it's too late.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

I think it can - but you have to be extremely careful - but totally and completely up front about everything (with everybody.) If any innuendo or 'harmless flirting' occurs - tell your wife in excruciating detail, so she can laugh about it with you.
Mention your wife frequently when with your friends. Even though they're divorced, and might not want to hear how happily married you are, tell them anyway.

You need leave no one (including yourself) in any doubt about where your loyalties, romantic interests and affections lie.

Oh, and avoid alcohol. It impairs your judgement.

If you keep to that, you shouldn't have any problems (I don't!)


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## cbd2010 (Aug 19, 2010)

I certainly think it's possible to have friends of the opposite sex, and it be completely normal. I have a number of male colleagues with whom I get together for lunch or drinks after work - sometimes as a group, sometimes just two of us - and there is absolutely nothing to it. We go out to talk about work and life and our families and vacation plans and just decompress at the end of a long/hectic day. Most of them are married; a couple of them aren't. I am in no way attracted to them; there is no innuendo or anything that is in any way inappropriate. I always tell my husband beforehand, and he is not in the least bit concerned. He has met all of them, and has gone out with us at times. If he told me he was going to go have drinks with a woman he knew, that wouldn't bother me.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

*Yes - doable*

Hi Freddie,

I disagree with the previous responders, my female friends are seriously married or coupled, and there's nothing other than friendship.

I never, ever get drunk as I hated the feeling I when I did back in college in '66. Going out for dinner and a beer or a shared bottle of wine between 3 or 4 of us, yes, going out for drinks - NO, not me, not my friends, male or female, unless the beverage is lemonade or good coffee.

My two best friends are women, they are open to me in a way my two male friends aren't. I can be with them w/o a mask, w/o pretense, and talk about subjects guys usually avoid. One is my music teacher, I spend hours a week with her in an otherwise empty house, I see her as more the little sister I wish I had, instead of the one I do. There is a great deal of love, constructive criticism (I'm the recipient) but no chemistry.

Obviously it depends on the women and on you, but it is possible to be friends. I will say that some women I meet provoke a lot of interest on my part and seemingly on their part, but, like you, I haven't gone outside my marriage, which I think is coming to an end for reasons that have nothing to do with anyone other than my wife and me. Afterwards there will be time to meet new people.

I do wonder about being out four nights a month. How late do stay out, what do you do, is your wife out on those nights telling you to find dinner in the freezer?

Four weeknights a month is basically one week a month. It might be excessive and your wife might think she's being slighted or that you are two dumb to know women's wiles, or just how attractive you might be on one of your good nights. 

I haven't had to refuse a woman's advances for a while, there've been several over the years, but even when it could happen and my wife would never hear about it, even though some of them were explicit enough for late night TV - I remember an otherwise empty hotel swimming pool, I didn't break my vows, more from a sense of why do I want this confusion in my life, I'm already confused enough.

Remember - Harry and Sally was a movie, yes some husbands cheat, but not all of us.

I hope this helps.

Mark


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

It is possible, as long as there is tons of honesty and openness and trust. My boyfriend has female friends, and I have male friends. We trust each other completely, we both know that we would never go outside our relationship that way. If we were that unhappy, we would end things first. 

We don't necessarily tell each other about every single conversation, but we are open enough to know that there is nothing going on, and we both also know that we could ask each other at any time, "Did you see/talk to so and so recently?" and get an honest answer. We can ask each other if we can see email, fb messages, phones, whatever, and look through any of it, and not only be told that yes, we can but that we would not find anything there that is inappropriate or that would make us uncomfortable. 

Your wife says she trusts you, but doesn't trust them. That's telling, to me. I trust my boyfriend. I trust his friends. I trust, that even if they don't know me, they know OF me and they respect me enough (even if they don't know me) and they respect HIM enough to not try to interfere in our relationship, even if they did harbor some kind of feelings for him. And if I didn't trust them, it would mean that I know they have feelings for him and that I believe they will try to act on them, and that they may not give up even after he rejects them. In which case I would tell him so. 

Her saying she doesn't trust them could also be another way of saying that she's concerned about what might happen, but she doesn't want to say she doesn't trust you. It may be that at some point you have said something, done something, or acted in such a way that she feels there may be an attraction there, or a reason to worry. But she doesn't want to say she doesn't trust you, so instead, she turns it around and says she doesn't trust them, hoping that you'll get the hint and stop doing what you're doing. 

I think if she's uncomfortable, this is something you need to sit down and talk about. Do not ignore her feelings and push the boundaries, as you say you're going to do. That's not going to make things better, in fact, it's probably going to make things even worse. You need to discuss this with her, try to get her to tell you why she doesn't trust them, try to explain to her why this is not a problem. 

If you two are unable to reach a compromise, then you need to ask yourself: Who's more important to me...my wife or my female friends?


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## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

"Her saying she doesn't trust them could also be another way of saying that she's concerned about what might happen, but she doesn't want to say she doesn't trust you."

Wow,I am floored by the amazing resource that this site provides. Everyone's comments have been absolutely, incredibly well thought out and helpful beyond belief.

I specifically posted atruckersgirl comment above. That is a very interesting take on things. Whether that is the case or not, an extremely insightful comment.

So I find this quite surprising. Last time when I asked this question probably 85% of the responses agreed with my wife's position, and told me to forget about friends of the female persuasion. This time it seems to be the opposite.

I agree with the alcohol comments. But that is not the case here. The drinks are after work, and never more than one. Home by 7pm. Otherwise it is sporadic lunches with them. A few times it has been a concert and sporting event. We discuss my wife with both friends. I agree with other posters, it is nice to have an opposite sex perspective or influence on the friends front. 

I have explained to my wife that these friends are dearly important to me, since I don't have a lot of close friends left here. Yes they are female, but that does not matter to me. 
I cannot come to grips with the fact that if you trust ME, then that should be the end of it. Again I would fully trust her in the reverse.

Obviously I will choose my wife in the end. I just would like to discuss further, but wanted to know whether I was out to lunch with thinking that opposite sex friends was doable. I am not sure the best way to approach things. Both of my friends are quite understanding if our contact ends. One thinks I should stand up for myself and push things (ie. she does not agree with my wife's position). 

I would just like to not lose two good friends. Not sure what the best thing is to do.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

I hate to say it, but I agree you have to go along with your wife, and tell her w/o anger that you rather make her comfortable than anything else. It is not quite Hobson's choice, you can agree with her request and improve the quality of your life at home, or ...

It is tough when one looses friends, whether it be caused by death or moves.

I have a very dear friend for 40+ years, we live far apart, see each other very infrequently, yet communicate periodically via email. Our relationship is more big sister / brother than any thing else. We sign our emails with Love, and we do love and care for each other dearly, not romantically. We have attended weddings and funerals, listened to hopeful calls & tearful calls.

I tell my wife when I speak to her (unless I'm complaining about my wife or need good advice, an all too common phenomena of late). They know each other, have spent time with each other because of me.

I haven't followed all the threads, and wonder if the possibility of going out with a friend and your wife is feasible. I find the responsibility of keeping any two people other than my grandsons happy simultaneously for more than a few minutes difficult, but it is possible if one erases ego and wants while doing so. 

Summary - if your friendships are to continue your wife will have to trust your friends more than she trusts you.

Please let us know what happens - I found this forum recently and find it an amazing place, often with excellent advice and thought provoking questions.



I think you've been very straight forward, you might want to show her this thread, and say the equivalent of "Sweetheart, you are more important to me than any on the planet". 

In time she might, I say "might" not knowing, allow you to spend time with your friends.

I 

I know you will miss them, and they you, but I don't see any way out other than this.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

This friendship apparently causes your wife a great deal of pain. That would be reason enough for me to discontinue it, regardless of whether it's platonic or not. One could look at it as a trust issue but it's also a respect issue. I'd hope that if something she did caused me a lot of stress, that she'd knock it off whether she agreed or completely understood my point of view or not. 
I think it's completely reasonable for a married woman to be somewhat concerned about a relationship between her husband and other women, especially if that relationship did not include her and persisted despite her obvious objections. I trust my wife but I wouldn't be thrilled if she had close and continous friendships with unmarried males. If you value something, you guard it. Your wife obviously finds you desirable and just assumes most other women would as well. If she knew you were hanging out with other women and didn't seem interested or the least concerned, I'd be worried.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think your wife is intelligent. She's right not to trust the women, she's not even friends with them, what have they done to ever earn her trust? We don't just automatically trust every person we know/meet. Ok, so that's justified.

Next, she says she trusts you, and I would take that as she trusts that your intentions are honorable, that you would not INTENTIONALLY cheat on her.

Here's why I think she is intelligent. She sounds like she understands human nature. Maybe she hasn't articulated it very well. What she sees is you spending time with two females who have nothing to lose if they get between you and your wife (where's their stable and loving relationship?), and she has everything to lose. From what you've said, she would have more than enough reason to feel concerned about your 'friend' who would prefer you to fight with your wife for your friendship with her. A real friend would say, 'maybe you could work out what your wife IS comfortable with, how much time is TOO much, what sort of things can we do that she'd feel ok with', and even, 'maybe you should look for more male companionship, to fill some of these friendship needs, to keep the peace in your household'. But no, like most/all of us are with most of our decisions, she picked the selfish choice. She doesn't care if it causes you trouble in your marriage, as long as she gets what she wants.

There is nothing wrong with needing friends, we weren't meant to live as hermits, or even hermits with a wife/partner. We need contact with other people. So I understand, you don't want to give that up.

However, I think, without the knowledge to guard against it, friends of the opposite sex (if you're hetero), can start to fill some of the needs that are supposed to be met by your partner. You may not realise it, you may think it's all innocent, until the day comes that you realise you feel more for the 'friend' than you should. That you can't talk to your partner the way you can talk to this friend, that she understands you better, that she's more fun, that she listens when you vent your current frustration about something your partner did. Then you want to talk to her more and more... etc etc. It doesn't have to be of a physical nature to be cheating. By letting other people meet some of the needs that your partner previously did/should, you start to neglect your partner, you grow further apart. You turn to your 'friend' for support because your partner isn't meeting your needs, because you didn't articulate them to her, you just went and filled them elsewhere. Basically, you let the problems develop. Worst case scenario.

Anyway, I think your wife has a good reason to be concerned. The main reason being that you don't understand what can so easily happen, and she does. You've become reliant on single women to fill most/all of your friendship needs and you don't see a problem with that. You'll be blindsided.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

*Breeze's excellent response*

Breeze,

All I can say is WOW!

Mark
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Opposite sex - just friends? 

No.

The reasons, read what Breeze has typed. 

It is the truth very well explained!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

breeze said:


> However, I think, without the knowledge to guard against it, friends of the opposite sex (if you're hetero), can start to fill some of the needs that are supposed to be met by your partner. You may not realise it, you may think it's all innocent, until the day comes that you realise you feel more for the 'friend' than you should. That you can't talk to your partner the way you can talk to this friend, that she understands you better, that she's more fun, that she listens when you vent your current frustration about something your partner did. Then you want to talk to her more and more... etc etc. It doesn't have to be of a physical nature to be cheating. By letting other people meet some of the needs that your partner previously did/should, you start to neglect your partner, you grow further apart. You turn to your 'friend' for support because your partner isn't meeting your needs, because you didn't articulate them to her, you just went and filled them elsewhere. Basically, you let the problems develop. Worst case scenario.


 This is all profound. I want to bring more of the Physical into this discussion though. Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of men I personally know, seem to only want to hang around with female "friends" who are "Pleasing to the eyes". 

Even my oldest son refuses to get "close" in any way with a girl who is not "his type" -he has no interest in continuing converstations or giving them any amount of hope, even for a closer friendship, unless there is SOME physical attraction there. But he is single, so maybe this does not count. 

I hope this is not generalizing too much, but I do think many times women are different, not looking at the physical , we can easily be "just friends" -and seriously not want anything more from the relationship but "talking"- cause we are communicators by nature. 

I am curious to know if the Poster will admit -that IF he had grave problems in his marraige, or let's say if he lost his wife, IF he would consider one of those women friends as a "potential" ? That is the question.


I personally seem to get along better with men, my BEST friend IS my husband, but after him, I most enjoy a particular male friend, we just have alot in common - our musical tastes, debating, it is like an art for us, we love critical thinking, I do not have many female friends like this. But I seriously have Zero physical attraction to him, he knows this, and my husband well knows this, absolutely no concern there. 

But on the other side of the coin, he has a grand attraction for me, which my husband is also fully aware as he talks about in front of him jokingly many many times in some very amusing ways. Nothing is hidden, we are so used to this, it is basically common place,even my kids are aware of it. But still, we have a rule he only comes over when my husband is here. I would never go out with him "alone", that would be crossing a boundary. 

I have gone out with him -with my kids, to other things like concerts, restaurants- with my husbands blessing. And I always share with him everything we talk about , just cause I WANT to do that. He & my husband are just as good of friends really. Just that we are more the "talkers" when we get together. 

I will admit here -in honesty -IF I had a Physical attraction to him, I think it would be "Iffy" on my part - if I was having troubles in my marraige, it could be a Slippery Slope. 

I think any spouse does well to evaluate the morality & boundaries of the FRIEND(s) involved and never count out the power of Physical Attraction with the opposite sex.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, you can be friends with someone of the opposite sex. You just have to set boundaries and agree on the boundaries. I have a female friend. We share some hobbies and hold similar positions with different companies. We don't cross the boundaries. My wife knows about her. I've even asked my wife if she knows of any single guys for my friend. It is possible despite what Breeze says.


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## lola_b (Aug 28, 2009)

As someone who is about to get divorced a year after being married all because of this so called "friendship" with the opposite sex. I for one was not comfortable with the situation and my husband simply didn't care. He lied to me, hid things and all in all started the downward spiral to our marriage (which he won't even admit to).

I hope you cherish your marriage more than a friendship, unlike my husband. If your wife is uncomfortable, please do the right thing and end the friendship. If it makes her feel better to meet her and be invited to hangout, she may feel better about the friendship.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

If your wife is uncomfortable about the friendship, you can do things to make her more comfortable too. For example, I asked my wife if she knew of any single guys to date my female friend.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

It is doable. I've had a male friend over 30 years. He was a friend long before I met my husband and remains a great friend now. We share a hobby and have even traveled together. It has been more of a brother/sister relationship--and has NEVER been sexual. While my husband and I were together, I took phone calls from my friend in front of my husband. In addition, I always asked him to participate in our "hobby time". He always declined, but the offer was there. I never hid anything from my husband regarding the friendship. The friend and I never go "drinking" though. I'm not sure about that. You and your wife are going to have to work out boundaries you are comfortable with. But, I'm glad I never gave up my friend. Perhaps you can strike a balance where everyone is happy.


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## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

Great comments. Some on both sides.

Interesting that one of my female friends in question believes my wife is acting the way she is because she thinks she has me in her pocket and is in control. My friend thinks I need to "break her", in order stop the behavior continuing. That behavior being not respecting my wants. Obviously just SLIGHTLY off the mark from what my wife would say on this topic! lol

Definitely two sides to this one. Strong sides too.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

freddie_fender said:


> Great comments. Some on both sides.
> 
> Interesting that one of my female friends in question believes my wife is acting the way she is because she thinks she has me in her pocket and is in control. My friend thinks I need to "break her", in order stop the behavior continuing. That behavior being not respecting my wants. Obviously just SLIGHTLY off the mark from what my wife would say on this topic! lol
> 
> Definitely two sides to this one. Strong sides too.


I think your friend just crossed the line with that remark.

Which is more important to you... your wife or your friends? You had better choose now.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

freddie_fender said:


> Great comments. Some on both sides.
> 
> Interesting that one of my female friends in question believes my wife is acting the way she is because she thinks she has me in her pocket and is in control. My friend thinks I need to "break her", in order stop the behavior continuing. That behavior being not respecting my wants. Obviously just SLIGHTLY off the mark from what my wife would say on this topic! lol
> 
> Definitely two sides to this one. Strong sides too.


Agreed with Chris Taylor comment above.

If my woman was out with any male friends and I got the wind that he told her that, it would not be good for either of them.

I am thinking you are answering your own question in this thread, your female friends are bantering you as some test as to which of them is more important to you. Maybe fun and games to them, but very serious to you and your wife. 

Make a decision and act deliberately.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Unless you are in a completely toxic, abusive marriage, a real friend would say and do things that helps strengthen the bond between you and your wife and not encourage you to be discontented. If you are discussing your private marriage business with another woman, that's a violation of intimacy. If you have problems with your wife, talk to her about it or you can air it with a professional or anonymous strangers here on this post. How could she and your wife develop a decent friendship if you've taught your friend to view your wife as a controlling b&^% and you a victim?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Chris Taylor said:


> I think your friend just crossed the line with that remark.
> 
> Which is more important to you... your wife or your friends? You had better choose now.


:iagree: Your friend has crossed the line with that one. 


I remember when my estranged husband first started his escapade--back when he first announced he was unhappy and first started cheating. I told my husband I would place a moratorium on my hobby and would be spending the time doing things with him instead. In return I expected the same from him. When I told my male friend what was going on, he fully understood and told me I was doing the right thing. He never got involved in it. However, after the estranged husband moved out, my friend was very supportive; he was always there for me. Likewise, I NEVER get involved in things going on between he and his wife.


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

freddie_fender said:


> Great comments. Some on both sides.
> 
> Interesting that one of my female friends in question believes my wife is acting the way she is because she thinks she has me in her pocket and is in control. My friend thinks I need to "break her", in order stop the behavior continuing. That behavior being not respecting my wants. Obviously just SLIGHTLY off the mark from what my wife would say on this topic! lol
> 
> Definitely two sides to this one. Strong sides too.


Opposite sex friends that take pot shots at your wife have an agenda---their remarks make that obvious.Don't take the bait. The nature of comments like that show that they're trying to undermine how you feel about your wife.

Have either of your female friends ever spent any time getting to know your wife?

If they haven't, then they can't possibly have an informed opinion about what your wife thinks or feels---yet they're going to psychoanalyze her in her absence , and make derogatory statements about her?
How very derisive.

It seems like they're trying to sow seeds of doubt, and discontent---and doing their best to water them. It's a manipulative action designed to drive a wedge between you & your W. 

Then as the discord between you & your W grows---they can swoop in to your "rescue".

I can almost hear the battlecry now..............

"But she just doesn't understand you like I/we do......."

_(what a great feed for a single woman's ego.....)_

Freddie, I've been in the same potion as your W. My SO had a female friend who tried to do her darndest to break us up, when she reappeared in his life. Negative gossip, speculations (talking out her ass, actually, she didn't know me at all, but she presumed she knew what _*I *_must be thinking and feeling......) And it very nearly did break us up. Like your female friends, this one was fresh out of a long-term relationship......I'm not sure if she was interested in my SO romantically, or just wanted him back in her life at her beck and call...........Either way, she deliberately tried to stir up drama between the two of us.

Maybe your friends don't have a romantic interest in you---maybe they just want you to be in the same boat as them----divorced, with time on your hands to hang out.

Hit your mental fast-forward button here---let's say these friendships do break up your marriage---the gals manage to slowly erode your opinion of your wife to the point of no return. So you're divorced, free, there's no shrew at home telling you who you can or can't hang out with. You've asserted your independence, your autonomy---

and one or both of your female friends get into a new relationship, which takes up all their time and attention.

You're left holding the bag.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

jitterbug said:


> Opposite sex friends that take pot shots at your wife have an agenda---their remarks make that obvious.Don't take the bait. The nature of comments like that show that they're trying to undermine how you feel about your wife.
> 
> Have either of your female friends ever spent any time getting to know your wife?
> 
> ...


This is a valid observation. In my situation with the male friend, I'm also friends with his wife. His wife and I aren't as close though. Nonetheless, I certainly wouldn't do anything to come between them. And the wife knows this and trust me.


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

827Aug said:


> This is a valid observation. In my situation with the male friend, I'm also friends with his wife. His wife and I aren't as close though. Nonetheless, I certainly wouldn't do anything to come between them. And the wife knows this and trust me.



And that's an example of a healthy OS friendship.

I also have a handful of very dear male friends who are either married or in committed R's. I wouldn't _dream _of doing or saying anything that would make waves in their home lives.

One of my personal rules is that I would never say anything to them that I wouldn't say in front of their wives. I also make it a point to always send a greeting to their wives when I leave a phone message, or have a conversation.

I know full well what it's like to be wondering about the motives of an opposite sex friend, so I make it a point to allay any fears or misgivings the gf/wives may in advance.They all know me, and have met my SO , so it's all good.

So, looking back at my recent post, I can see how it seems like I might be against OS friendships, I just want to state that I'm not.............but very firm clear, transparent boundaries must be in place.And judgment should be on a case-by-case basis.

Once that line is crossed, as in Freddy's case, or my case w/my SO's interloping friend---then it's time to put the wall up, to protect the marriage/relationship.

And even though I'm a woman , I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of conniving,catty women out there that will play games with the relationships of their male friends.

Some are on the hunt,poaching for a new mate.

Some are getting their egos fed, by setting up scenarios where they get to play the rescuer.

And some are simply sh*t-stirrers, because they feed off the drama.Recreational triangulation???

As another poster mentioned previously, _what __do __they __have __to __lose_, if they don't have a loving relationship of their own?

And unfortunately, it seems like there's a lot of men who don't recognize that type of woman---they get blinded by the flattery, lured by the dangling carrot of being in the company of a woman who tells them everything they want to hear...and never finds fault with them......

sadly, some don't recognize it until it's too late for their marriages.


(and yes, there are men that will play the same exact games, but I'm inclined to believe that it's women who engage in the subtle underminings more often)


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## tj71 (Jul 20, 2010)

Freddie,

First off, I agree with most that having opposite sex friends is okay. But if you think for one moment that you will "never" do anything with them...you are wrong. It doesn't matter how great your marriage is or how convinced you are that you are not attracted to your female friends, it can still happen. There is always a way for those feelings to come up in the right situation so you have to be careful. There doesn't have to be a problem in your marriage for something to happen. I go crazy at people who say "If something happens it is because there was a problem in my marriage to begin with"...bull$hit! It can still happen and sneak up on you.

You just have to know your limitations, set them up, and follow them strictly. Then and only then can you be safer. You also need to admit that we, as human, and yourself, has limitations to your resisting the opposite sex if certain situations and conditions were met. This is the only way to truly stay safe and keep it safe for you and your wife.

For example. I love my wife. We both know that we are absolutely each others' true and best friend. I don't ever want to cheat on her. However, if I found myself alone with an attractive woman, and she was totally into me and started to get physical with me, then I know I would cave. It's human nature. The reason is not because there was a problem with my wife and I it is because I allowed myself to get into that situation and I went to far for me.

Make sense?


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## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

I think my friend did cross the line. But she is not going to undermine anything. I am confident in where I am in life, and if she goes down that route it will be ended. I am only looking for a friend. If I wanted something else, I would end my marriage and start again. This is only about having friends of the opposite sex.

I trust my wife, and she trusts me. So I have a hard time stepping away from then what the problem is with a female friend for me. I realize some women might be after something else. If that is the case with me, they will be sad to find out it won't go anywhere. 

As for this causing my marriage to break up and then the friends find someone and then I am alone. Well I think that is just a bit far fetched. I am not planning on this breaking my marriage up. I am communicating with my wife about this. I am hoping we can find some middle ground. I am not asking for anything more. If we cannot find any, then my time with my friends will be limited. But this is not going to break up my marriage nor would it matter if my friends found a man and said see ya later for either legitimate or selfish reasons to me. Friendships change over time. That is life sometimes.

The only discussions my friends have had is my frustration with my wife's reaction. I dont agree with it, and I dont agree with my friends responses. But I think the bottom line is marriage is built on trust. We have trust in ours. So I think. I think time with friends is also important. If you are confident in your relationship, and in yourself, I dont think you would stop your spouse from having opposite sex friends.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Freddie,
If you want to lose your wife keep on going with this stuff.

Bob



freddie_fender said:


> Great comments. Some on both sides.
> 
> Interesting that one of my female friends in question believes my wife is acting the way she is because she thinks she has me in her pocket and is in control. My friend thinks I need to "break her", in order stop the behavior continuing. That behavior being not respecting my wants. Obviously just SLIGHTLY off the mark from what my wife would say on this topic! lol
> 
> Definitely two sides to this one. Strong sides too.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

freddie_fender said:


> I think time with friends is also important.


When it is time for me to spend time with friends, it is with other men doing men things, or it is as couple with my wife out with other couples.

Even if I am among a group of men, maybe to go out and even to act flirtacious with other women, is far FAR less dangerous than the fire you are playing with. 



> If you are confident in your relationship, and in yourself, I dont think you would stop your spouse from having opposite sex friends.


Keep up this trite thinking, and we can just flip a coin as to whether it is you or your wife that winds up first in the full blown EA or PA and sends your marriage into a tailspin. 

For me I will leave my confidence in human nature. 

Both your female friends are divorced, you are having lunch alone with them including having inappropriate conversations with them talking about your wife, and your wife has openly expressed her displeasure in this. 

And yet there is still some question as to "is this okay?" 

Re-read this thread for yourself and ask yourself if you are merely looking for permission to continue what seems as already the start of some EA?

I hope you decide to take leadership for yourself, and not even worry the nonsense to be in your wife's pocket or what have you, and from your own leadership to set proper boundries. Very firm and honest with respect as to why and what happens when any man and woman spend time alone with each other and the chemistry that is always at work, and the human nature that we all strive with.

My advice, take the leadership yourself to go even stricter than your wife is even considering, to never put yourself in the setting up of a woman's company alone, set your own standards and do not ever let your wife's boundries be even approached without crossing yours first. 

This is the way to build solid trust, not to continue to play with fire and make excuses. 

And I hope you will be prepared the consequences if you do not do this, and continue with your present course. 

I wish you well.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If you're a normally functioning male, you are attracted to women. Being human, you are capable of developing an inappropriate emotional or sexual attachment with a woman other than your wife. Why deliberately hang out with temptation and tempt fate? Even if you are the only sinless human on the planet, why give your wife reason to doubt and worry?


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

Freddie........

Even though you may have the noblest intentions in the world,even if you wouldn't dream of crossing the line into having an affair.............

One fact remains.

Your actions are causing your wife to worry.She's made it clear to you that she's uncomfortable with you spending time alone with your female friends.

Yes, she trusts you---but by pushing the envelope, your actions will begin to erode her trust.

The longer she feels that her point of view is being disregarded, the more and more she will start to feel resentful. She may not show it on the surface right away, but every occasion where she's left behind while you go to hang out with your friends is going to take a deposit out of the love bank and get dumped on the resentment scale.

Once that resentment scale gets too heavy......well.........

Another aspect of this scenario is the position it's put your wife into. Unless she agrees with your point of view---she gets labeled as mistrustful. Jealous,controlling, insecure, paranoid...etc. She's damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't.

She's having a normal reaction to your behavior....a loving spouse is going to be upset when their partner is hanging out with single friends of the opposite sex, if those friends have made no effort to befriend the _couple_. She's feeling like that last kid left on the sidelines, who didn't get picked for the team. It's a crappy feeling. She's been put into the position of being the odd-man-out.

Of course she's going to upset, pissed-off, and worried. And if this goes on too long, she will start to question your loyalty to her.

Criticizing her for having a normal reaction--getting upset because she feels disregarded--is adding insult to injury.

And the resentment mountain gets taller, and taller........

Also, once you begin discussing your partner with OS friends, in anything but a flattering light, you're on the brink of an emotional affair. And you have betrayed your partner's trust, and privacy.EA's are very insidious--they can creep up on people slowly, much like the story of the frog in the pot of boiling water, who doesn't realize he's in hot water ,over his head.....until it's too late.

How would you feel-- if you learned that your wife had been discussing her frustrations regarding you ,with a male friend?A friend who has shown no indication of wanting to be your friend as well?.....Please--think about it. Try to imagine being in your wife's shoes.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Naive. One day you wont be, at least about all this. I think your lesson is going to be exceptionally painful for you. Your wife will have moved on and you’ll be left in the dust wondering what happened.

Bob





freddie_fender said:


> Hi,
> Back here for some further advice.
> 
> I do not have many close friends left in our city. Two of them happen to be female. Both of them are divorced.
> ...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Freddie,

Do these friends of yours even try to befriend your wife? I really think you are playing with fire. The more information you give us, the more I'm inclined to see things from your wife's point of view. That's saying a lot since I have a very close OS friend.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Freddie,
> 
> Do these friends of yours even try to befriend your wife? I really think you are playing with fire. The more information you give us, the more I'm inclined to see things from your wife's point of view. That's saying a lot since I have a very close OS friend.


Reckon he's having multiple EAs. Playing with fire, so very certain to get burned. Reckon his wife, his woman, already knows. It's the female feminine thing. Women know these things, most men haven't a clue.

Bob


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## Greentea (Aug 28, 2010)

ok, let me ask you a question: if your wife is a very young, beautiful,happy woman, would you feel comfortable if she went out with her male friend alone, to a bar, or to have dinner, stay a little bit late?


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## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

I have absolutely no problem with my wife doing the same. If it made her happy, then that is all I want. I am confident in our relationship. If she left for someone else then I am out to lunch on our marriage. 

I think the comment about my wife's confidence is where I am at on this. Just not sure what it is.

Appreciate the comments. I hope my wife and I can find middle ground, if not, then I will be seeing less of my friends. it is not the end of the world, I just had hoped it didnt come to that.


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## freddie_fender (Mar 8, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If you're a normally functioning male, you are attracted to women. Being human, you are capable of developing an inappropriate emotional or sexual attachment with a woman other than your wife. Why deliberately hang out with temptation and tempt fate? Even if you are the only sinless human on the planet, why give your wife reason to doubt and worry?



I would never do that to my wife. Never. I don't want my wife to worry. That is the point of our discussions together. The bottom line is I don't want to lose a good friend just because they are female. Good friends are hard to find.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

freddie_fender said:


> I would never do that to my wife. Never. I don't want my wife to worry. That is the point of our discussions together. The bottom line is I don't want to lose a good friend just because they are female. Good friends are hard to find.


Women are for more switched into a woman's guile and feminine charms than men are. Men don't know the half it. That is why your wife is worried about your friendships with other women.

At the very least she'll be building up a good old stock of resentment against you. Resentment will be much tougher to deal with and far more harmful to your marriage than what's happening right now.

But you're never going to see it.

Bob


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

freddie_fender said:


> Good friends are hard to find.


I couldn't agree more. However, I'm afraid you are a better friend to these women than they are to you. A true friend would not have made those comments about your wife. Be careful.


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## JustAnotherGuy1 (Sep 4, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Freddie,
> If you want to lose your wife keep on going with this stuff.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. Up until I saw that, I could figure your wife might be reasonably worried or might be a little over-bothered. That comment, though, tells me your wife has some reason to be bothered, this isn't a good situation.


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## Gandalf (Sep 5, 2010)

*Marriage Salvageable*

MY dear wife of 26 years told me tonight that she couldn't do it anymore, marriage, sex. I asked if she wanted a separation or divorce but she said not yet. She went out to kindly explain that I have not respected nor loved her enough especially when sick last winter.

I have told her I will addres all these things for both me to be a better person, better dad to 4 kids (11-19), and a better husband who loves her unconditionally.

My question is is am I just dilusioning myself. Is there any hope or should I start getting ready for my next life.

Please help


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Marriage Salvageable*

Gandalf,

First, understand this very well. Words in this situation, whether promises, begging, pleading, swearing to do better, even tears and crying, will do nothing to help you. Only ACTIONS will matter, actions and behavior. 

And your action is this, all these things you are telling your wife, instead, put them in action. Regardless even if you are tearing apart inside with pain, take this upon yourself, to come up with a plan of your own leadership, and see it through. This is the only thing to speak to a woman in this situation, to see that your actions, and not merely words, are showing the difference.

Specificially, to make your own appointment to marriage counceling, and inviting your wife to go, whether she goes or not it does not matter, go yourself.

And these other things, it is the same way, in your own leadership make the changes that you are needing to make, and only after the behavior and actions are in motion, only then speak with words.

Whether your marriage survives or not, your course of action is the same. To get control of yourself, physically, emotionally, mentally, and to in all things be the man that you need to be whether it is to win back your wife, or to eventually move on to win some other woman.


And as well, I would recommend to copy this post and start a new post on your own thread in Relationship forum, as that will get the attention of many more good people already down this road that can help you.

I wish you well.



Gandalf said:


> MY dear wife of 26 years told me tonight that she couldn't do it anymore, marriage, sex. I asked if she wanted a separation or divorce but she said not yet. She went out to kindly explain that I have not respected nor loved her enough especially when sick last winter.
> 
> I have told her I will addres all these things for both me to be a better person, better dad to 4 kids (11-19), and a better husband who loves her unconditionally.
> 
> ...


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