# The man worth marrying...advice? input?



## oakhillady

Hi everyone,

My boyfriend and I have lived together for six months, been together a year and a half, and now he is communicating loud and clear that his next goal is to save enough money to buy me a ring and ask me to marry him. He said it's the top priority in his mind right now (though I gently remind him he has some other financial things to take care of first). I think that the proposal is coming soon, in the next 6-12 months. He's 26 and I'm 25.

So, that said, I must admit that I don't know if he's really ready for marriage. In some ways, he is still very immature and a bit on the selfish side. And yet, I love him to death. When I am with him, I'm purely happy even if we aren't doing anything but sitting around at home together. Just to be in the same room with him, I'm satisfied. He has been very ill over the past year but made it out, but I have been dealing with an injury and have recently felt that he was too self-centered to be there for me. I let him know that his actions made me feel abandoned, and if I didn't talk to him about it then my only other option was to leave...since then, he is letting me know even more how he feels about me. Is it too good to be true? I'm not sure...

I'm sorry for the long explanation, so now here are my questions...

How do you know that a man is really the right one for you?

Are there any hints that let you know he will be there for you when you need him, or is it your experience that his behavior now dictates his behavior for life?

What characteristics need to really be present in a man to be sure that he will be a good husband to you, and can motivate the right woman to be a great and happy wife?

Thanks in advance for any input


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## synthetic

> In some ways, he is still very immature and a bit on the selfish side.





> recently felt that he was too self-centered to be there for me.





> his actions made me feel abandoned, and if I didn't talk to him about it then my only other option was to leave.



Your marriage will end up in divorce. No doubt.

And it's not because your husband is immature, self-centered or uncaring. He may be all that *to you*, but there are many girls who will accept him for exactly who he is. You're not one of them.

Based on your husband's reaction to your protest, I strongly believe he's highly vulnerable to codependency and ultimately depression.




> What characteristics need to really be present in a man to be sure that he will be a good husband to you, and can motivate the right woman to be a great and happy wife?


No one has an answer to this. If you feel like your happiness in life is tied to future personality changes in your partner, you're setting yourself up for failure.

The right husband for you is the person you fully accept as a package (pros + cons all together).



> yet, I love him to death


No you don't.

You already resent him. You can't really love someone to death yet consider them "childish" and "selfish". Your love will eventually change its form to resentment and possibly hatred.

Set him free. He deserves better. You do too.


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## LovesHerMan

OHL:
It may be that his self-centeredness is related to his having been ill.  Now that he is well, do you still find him immature and selfish?

Watch how he treats others. What is his attitude toward his mother, sisters if he has any? How does he treat waitresses? That will give you clues about his attitude toward women.

What did he say when you mentioned the financial problems? Was his response honest and open, or did he blow you off with excuses?

Do you both share the same goals in life? Do you have the same attitude toward having children?

I would say get to know each other a little more. Make sure you can weather stresses together. If you both want to be married and faithful, you will do what it takes to have a good relationship. Attitude and communication are everything in a marriage.


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## oakhillady

Thanks, both of you, for your responses. His attitude toward his mother is sort of hot and cold, which worries me. He loves her, he talks to her, but he is dismissive of her opinion or her questions sometimes and she just sort of takes it instead of putting her foot down. When I ask him about it, he says that her voice irks him, which I understand. He isn't really any worse toward his mother than I am toward mine, but it does worry me a little. 

When I talk to him about the financial problems, he is open and honest, he doesn't flip out, he just says "I know" in that sort of voice like a kid responds when you remind them of something they did wrong. We do both want the same things in life, kids and a decent house and to retire together on a ranch. We talk about spending more time doing activities that we can enjoy together so that he isn't spending so much of his free time with friends. 

And to synthetic, I don't mean to sound bratty, but it doesn't strike me as fair of you to say that I don't love this man. I think that if you had been there to watch the situations that cause me to say that he behaves in a selfish way, you would understand what I meant. I do love him, I'm just worried and don't want us to make a mistake, but I do agree with you that if things don't change and I do marry him with these actions and feelings still present, then I will resent him. I don't resent him now, I'm just confused by the things that have happened between us.

Thanks again to both of you.


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## synthetic

> And to synthetic, I don't mean to sound bratty, but it doesn't strike me as fair of you to say that I don't love this man. I think that if you had been there to watch the situations that cause me to say that he behaves in a selfish way, you would understand what I meant. I do love him, I'm just worried and don't want us to make a mistake, but I do agree with you that if things don't change and I do marry him with these actions and feelings still present, then I will resent him. I don't resent him now, I'm just confused by the things that have happened between us.


It's usually the seemingly unfair, harsh and shocking realities of life that help the 'adult' part of our brain to overcome the immaturity of our inner-child. Without these realities, we would all end up starving ourselves to death while justifying it as "love".

Your inner-child wants you to believe you love your partner "to death". In fact, the "to death" part is a crystal clear evidence of your inner-child's full presence while you typed that sentence. Our emotions are all dictated by our inner-child.

The adult in you however knows that you do not (and should not) love anyone "to death" because it goes against your survival instincts. 

You may think I'm clinging onto trivial words in your post. That's normal. It's your inner-child justifying your usage of the phrase "to death" as unimportant when the adult is being confrontational about it.

See how complex and beautiful the human brain is?


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## oakhillady

I'm curious what your profession is since you seem to like being condescending.


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## lamaga

Oakhill, he is an angry, angry person and he knows just enough psychojargon to sound credible. Don't worry about it.


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## synthetic

oakhillady and lamaga,

I'm very sorry if I sounded condescending.

As far as being angry, I can only wish 

I'm going through a hurtful separation myself. There's not a moment I don't feel like "I love my wife to death". 

Our situation was actually very similar to yours oakhillady. We got married when I was 27 and she was 26. My wife indeed had the same concerns and doubts. I had none (so I thought)

The "condescending" posts you read from me are the realities I have come to somewhat accept after 11 years in this relationship. They are actually the result of the most truthful moments of clarity I've experienced. 

My profession is not psychology at all. I'm a software engineer. I have absolutely no idea about psychojargon and the BS that many shrinks feed people to get their money.

These are things I have learned about myself, my wife, my parents and the heart-crushing failure of a marriage that I'm having to experience.

I love my wife dearly. She has been my world for 11 years. My inner child never wanted to believe that my wife never loved me the way I loved her. 

We will be divorcing...


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## oakhillady

Okay, so now we are getting somewhere. 

So I have to ask, were you the type of guy to just up and leave even if your wife (before she was your wife) was upset about something? Did you avoid doing cleaning up around the home and leave her to do it herself? Did the two of you ever go through both being ill and disabled? What signs were there that you have since realized existed that should have signaled it wouldn't work? That's the kind of help I need, if you are willing to give it, but please don't try to deflect your wife's actions onto me. Your wife and I are two different people, and probably not that much alike.


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## synthetic

You're absolutely right about the difference in the individuals that you and my wife are. 

To answer your questions:

- No I was never a leaver. My wife was.

- Yes I did void cleaning up around the home and left her to do it herself.

- We didn't go through disability, but my wife experienced quite a few episodes of extreme illness. Her brother also died in a car accident while we were married. That was quite a challenge.

- The signs were always there. Almost every conversation is a good sign. Unfortunately though, the signs are very subtle. The most telling sign was my wife's desire for me to "change". That's pretty much the mother of all signs for all marriages that are doomed to fail. 

When a woman is hoping for her man to change for the better (in her framework of values), she's essentially stabbing the relationship in the heart from the very first day. 

Don't get me wrong. People *do* change. Always. They change to adapt and compete. They however never ever change to please their spouse. 

Making compromises is different than changing. A compromise is just that, a compromise. A burden. An unwanted decision that is never made without sparking an "expectation". When that expectation goes unrewarded, resentment is born. Resentment is a very powerful survival tool for the brain.

Survival and contentment though are two very different things. You can never be content, yet trying to survive. Divorces happen when people go into survival mode. Love is the justification the brain uses to establish a balance between survival and contentment. 

If you find yourself in survival mode too often, your love for your partner will cease to satisfy the force needed to tip the balance towards contentment.

If you're not content with your husband's current personality, you never will be. He will never be able to keep you out of survival-mode for a satisfactory period *unless you adapt to the current situation and become content with the given*.

I hope you understand.


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## oakhillady

Thank you, that input really helped a lot and made plenty of sense. I think I should also clarify that I am not really trying to make him change, and I don't believe that people do unless they want to or have to because of what is going on with them. I am really just posting because I'm scared that he will propose before we are ready to get married. Also, since I started dating him, he has changed significantly - some changes because I pointed out that he has a tendency to come off a certain way, and other things because he just naturally became more mature and shed some "bad" characteristics. I think really I do just want a chance for us to grow into this relationship, and understand what each other wants, more before he pops the question. I don't want to be caught having to answer him "no", but I don't want to say "yes" and end up where you are now, divorced because change never happened. I wonder, though, if the changes your wife was waiting for are anything like the changes I am waiting for. This man is only my boyfriend now, and not my husband yet. Only time will tell, I suppose.

Thanks again, I do appreciate your response.


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## synthetic

You're welcome oakhillady,

I'm a very "pro marriage" person. In my opinion, no marriage is ever going to be ideal for both parties. In fact, marriage is a very hefty price to pay for the rewards it carries. There is however no proven alternative to marriage. It will remain the ultimate forward-leap for humanity until something more appealing representative of 'emotional stability and contentment' is found.

People develop a desire for marriage because emotional stability (safety) is a highly desirable virtue for our hardworking brains.

Unfortunately, a very low percentage of marriages result in an acceptable level of emotional stability for the engaged parties. My personal guesstimate is a sad 5%. All other marriages either fail or represent a lifetime of self-neglect and resentments.

Once you tie the knot, you must always be aware that the odds are completely against the survival of your marriage as a stable and contenting relationship. The crappy thing is, you're only half of the story. If your partner is not on the same page, there's nothing you can do to fix the marriage.

You mentioned your boyfriend "ups and leaves". I can't think of a more worrying sign than that.


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## intrigid

oakhillady said:


> How do you know that a man is really the right one for you?


When the question doesn't even cross your mind. When the very suggestion that he's _not _the right man seems ridiculous, almost humorous to you, _that's_ when you know he's the one.

Baby, believe me when I tell you this. He's not "the one". He's "someone".


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## intrigid

synthetic said:


> There is however no proven alternative to marriage.


Yeah there is. Common law. Cohabitation. Singledom.


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## synthetic

intrigid said:


> Yeah there is. Common law. Cohabitation. Singledom.


Pay attention to the word "ultimate" in the sentence.

Common law, cohabitation and singledom all represent a lower level of guarantee for emotional stability. A single person is never considered emotionally safe. Humans are not loners. The inner-child always desires the ultimate, hence the fantasies associated with marriage.

Ever wonder why we mostly buy the most expensive option that we can afford? It's our inner child wanting the ultimate. Can't mess with that inner-baby


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## intrigid

synthetic said:


> Common law, cohabitation and singledom all represent a lower level of guarantee for emotional stability.


No they don't. Just because someone is stupid enough to believe that marriage makes them secure doesn't make it so.

Marriage is like the glue that holds your 60 inch TV to the ceiling directly above your bed.


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## synthetic

intrigid said:


> No they don't. Just because someone is stupid enough to believe that marriage makes them secure doesn't make it so.
> 
> Marriage is like the glue that holds your 60 inch TV to the ceiling directly above your bed.


I wouldn't call it stupidity. It's really not.

As a child you learn to love and be loved. As a teenager you develop attractions and sexual drive. Puberty is a chaotic experience for the brain. Add all the childhood damages and insecurities that one incurs in life and you've got a fairly justified case of desire for emotional stability as a young adult.

Of course the sexual drive and the desire for love/loving also need to be satisfied.

Marriage represents the most appealing dynamic that covers those needs with at least some level of guarantee of longevity.

Of course, the ease of divorcing and high rates of infidelity in today's urban lifestyle will have a big impact on the "adult" part of our brain's perception on marriage, but the inner child will still not want to settle for anything less than the ultimate.


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## intrigid

synthetic said:


> but the inner child will still not want to settle for anything less than the ultimate.


Agreed. It's the inner _child _that craves the fairy tale story of marriage. Whether it's practical, though, is a whole other matter.


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## Mtts

**EDIT**
I'm going to assume at this point she knows whether or not to go through with this...lol.
**EDIT**


I wouldn't equate marriage to glue and tv's above beds. Common law, cohabitation...neither has the same recourse or potential harm marriage does. 

Marriage is deeper in basic structure. It requires a legal binding, which also can have legal repurcussions. Your choices can effect your legal standing should issues occur or choices be made. 

So to say that marriage doesn't gaurantee anything is true and false. It indicates (in most cases) a more serious intent by both parties. However given something as fluid as human emotion and thought you cannot expect seemless expierence from it. 

To the OP: My advice, have a serious heart to heart about these feelings with the guy. I think we often convince ourselves that someone is "the one" when in reality this is a falacy. We are compatible based on a huge web of qualities. Many people will hit various percentages of the "ultimate" companion. Could this guy work? Yes, all people have the propensity to alter their behavior. True change would be his desire to eliminate self-proceived failures, resentment would be him changing based on your proceived short comings of him. 

I think this really just boils down to communication. Communicate your concerns, I gaurantee his response will be more than enough to figure out if you want a ring.


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## Michael A. Brown

Before you are going to settle down, make sure that you are now ready for the new life.


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## Anonymous07

oakhillady said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My boyfriend and I have lived together for six months, been together a year and a half, and now he is communicating loud and clear that his next goal is to save enough money to buy me a ring and ask me to marry him. He said it's the top priority in his mind right now (though I gently remind him he has some other financial things to take care of first). I think that the proposal is coming soon, in the next 6-12 months. He's 26 and I'm 25.
> 
> So, that said, I must admit that I don't know if he's really ready for marriage. In some ways, he is still very immature and a bit on the selfish side. And yet, I love him to death. When I am with him, I'm purely happy even if we aren't doing anything but sitting around at home together. Just to be in the same room with him, I'm satisfied. He has been very ill over the past year but made it out, but I have been dealing with an injury and have recently felt that he was too self-centered to be there for me. I let him know that his actions made me feel abandoned, and if I didn't talk to him about it then my only other option was to leave...since then, he is letting me know even more how he feels about me. Is it too good to be true? I'm not sure...
> 
> I'm sorry for the long explanation, so now here are my questions...
> 
> How do you know that a man is really the right one for you?
> 
> Are there any hints that let you know he will be there for you when you need him, or is it your experience that his behavior now dictates his behavior for life?
> 
> What characteristics need to really be present in a man to be sure that he will be a good husband to you, and can motivate the right woman to be a great and happy wife?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input


I firmly believe that *actions speak louder than words*. He is showing you his actions by being "immature, self-centered, and not being there for you when you needed him". That is not a man I would ever marry. I won't pretend that my marriage is perfect, as we are struggling to learn to be a married couple, but I have no doubt in my mind that I married the right man. I never questioned if he was right for me. He is and always has been very caring, thoughtful, mature, giving, along with many other great qualities. We share the same religious views, political views, views on family and children, and we have the same goals in life. I think that is very important. When I am sick, he is always the first one to ask if I need anything or ask how are you feeling. If you don't feel 100% sure that he is the right guy for you, then don't get married. You have to 100% sure before you make any big decisions.


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## 45188

> How do you know that a man is really the right one for you?


You've been through years of relationship up and downs and have faced challenges together. You can communicate when you have problems. I'm not talking the kind of communication where one of the partners folds just to get the other one to shutup. I'm talking about when they screw up they SHOW you it won't happen again. If it happens again, that's a big no go. You've lived together for a few years. Around 3 is good and you know that each others habits aren't going to drive you nuts.



> Are there any hints that let you know he will be there for you when you need him, or is it your experience that his behavior now dictates his behavior for life?


He shows compassion and understanding while you're going through something. Actions speak louder than words.




> What characteristics need to really be present in a man to be sure that he will be a good husband to you, and can motivate the right woman to be a great and happy wife?


This all depends on the couple. Some peoples needs are different than others.



All in all op, you're still in the beginning of your relationship. Feels longer though, doesn't it? But it's not. You're at the start. You haven't had time to go through your trials. He's screwed up the one you went through, but you communicated and he understood. That's great. I'm not saying your marriage won't work. It can work but living together is what REALLY tests you. 3 years. 

Right now, you're only playing house.


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