# Flirting with other women



## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

This is gonna be long.

I’ve been lurking this site for years, recently joined when my H and I were having sex issues (he is lower drive than me). At the time that was the only issue that I saw in our relationship. Boy was I wrong.

My H has a history of flirting with other women. He has had many times when he's flirted with other women and I have caught him. He also had one full on EA that lasted at least 6 months in 2011. At the time of his affair, I figured that it was because he was still immature. I stuck with him but made him do some counseling (of which we never really completed).

Since 2011 things were going good as far as trust. I recently began trusting him again and these past two years have been wonderful. We get along really well, and I do feel that he does love me.

Anyways – to the point. About a month, maybe more, ago – he came home from work telling me that there was a girl at his work who is about 7 years younger than us, whom reminds him of me. I didn’t think much of it really. He said that she had actually just quit that day and as they were all leaving his store, she stopped to tell him a secret as to why she was leaving. She basically told him she hated the GM of the store, that she was a b****, and had said something about her that she overheard. She no longer felt comfortable, and that (of course) my H was the “only one at the store” she trusts to know the real truth of why she was quitting. I did feel a little weird about this story because H was just going on and on about how sad he felt she was leaving and how bad it was that she was leaving. He also said he felt really flattered that she felt so trusting in him to confide in him. He just kept it up!!

The next day I noted that they became friends on Facebook. Again, I started to feel a bit uncomfortable. I immediately started snooping like I used to do. I snooped for a couple weeks and found nothing. No messages, no comments on statuses, etc. It was quiet, and she had a boyfriend who it appeared she was pretty enamored with. I felt better and thought maybe it really was just an acquaintance type thing.

Well, Wednesday I walked past the PC and I saw that there was a chat open between the both of them. I read it and immediately became extremely concerned. Here’s some excerpts (please tell me – would you have a problem with a convo like this?):

HIM: “Btw, sorry if some of my responses have had huge delays. I have a very jealous wife and typing silently on a clacking keyboard like mine takes forever!” [I take this as his way of letting OW know that our marriage isn’t “happy” which isn’t true]

…

Later they began talking about having friends vs. not having friends:

HER: “Exactly! Very well put. I'm not cut out to be a hermit or just keep to myself. Its safe to mind my distance from the world, but its all too boring. I'm just slowly trying to, forgive my cheesiness, but find myself. Again.”

HIM: “And the new self you're finding is a dictator with very clean shoes right?” [I’m guessing the “clean shoes” remark is an inside joke of theirs]

HER: “Oh yes! Ha,Good memory. All who falter get banished when I'm in charge.”

HIM: “Lol, I have to admit you'd probably be the cutest dictator ever. The propaganda would almost make itself.”

HER: “Flattery gets you no bonus points. I have to dictate, and boot cleanliness is number one priority.”

HIM: “Ha! Well you can certainly crush my civil liberties anytime.”

HER: “With that talk I'd crush more than that!”

HIM: “Is that a threat or a promise?”

It goes on but I’ll spare you time. Basically innuendo after innuendo. Her saying that she’s a “dirty fighter” and him saying he likes “dirty fighting girls” etc etc etc. (All very disgusting and poor flirtation to be honest – I was a bit embarrassed reading how poor my H’s flirting skills are) ANYWAYS, it ends by her stating that she was going to tell on him which I can only assume means she’d either tell me or her boyfriend what he is doing. She told him to “begone” etc etc etc. I didn’t feel like she was very interested after a while and I am feeling confident this won’t really go much further but my H did pursue her very hard. I admit I felt some delight reading her rejection of him.

I immediately became irate, I woke up my H out of a dead sleep Wed night to confront him with this conversation. At first he acted like he didn’t know. Then he basically just sat there and said “I don’t know what to say” and “I’m so sorry” and “You’re too good for me” etc etc. I asked him what is inside of him that makes him do this and he said “I don’t know I think it’s the thrill of the hunt”.

At first I told him to leave, he stated he didn’t have anywhere to go. Then I just left the room for a little while. Of course my brain started the whole rug sweeping thing to protect myself from the hurt feelings, telling myself “they didn’t do anything” "I'm overreacting" (am I?) “she’s gone” etc… I eventually went to bed and he returned to the bedroom. He told me again and again how sorry he is. He told me he would delete her, that she doesn’t matter to him. I eventually fell asleep so didn’t really finish the conversation.

The next day was Thanksgiving so I didn’t want to bring it up. We were at families houses all day long. I was too tired last night to say anything about it or to follow up with his promise to delete her. 

This morning when I went on the computer to get some work done, his Facebook came up again. I immediately noted she is STILL on his Facebook friends AND he messaged her Thanksgiving morning!! Just a few hours AFTER our conversation!!! He just messaged her a “Happy Thanksgiving miss ____(name)” and not much else and she responded. But I feel betrayed not only because of the entire conversation in the first place but also because he told me he would delete her so why does he think it’s appropriate to message her again?!?! Also it's clear I don't feel comfortable with their friendship - so why would he pursue more dialogue with her? What nerve. 

I texted him while he’s at work today and told him he needs to delete her and confronted about the message. He says “I was just being courteous and when I said I’d delete her you didn’t really say anything” and then “I figured you already are checking my Facebook, so nothing is going to happen. I’ll send her a message when I get home tonight telling her what happened and then delete her” (note – he is probably going to say his big jealous wife is making him delete her instead of telling her the truth that he has a history of EA and that his conversation was inappropriate so therefore he needs to sever their friendship HIMSELF… I guess we’ll see because I will confirm there is a NC message.

NOTE - I have full access to the cell phones and bills, as I pay for both and he leaves his cell unlocked. I've checked. So far I'm 100% sure they do not have numbers for each other. It's only Facebook at this point.

Why do I feel so darn guilty making him give her up?! I immediately want to tell him he doesn’t have to get rid of her but I know that if I want to move forward he does have to do just that. But I feel awful.

Moving on from there, I don’t much know what to do. I want to fix our marriage. I think he does too… But I don’t know how to progress forward. I am thinking I need to give him a list of things he needs to do, 1) delete anyone on his FB or contacts who could pose a threat to our marriage, 2) read Not “Just Friends” By Glass, and 3) see a counselor to find out WHY he has such a tendency to an EA. And COMPLETE IT. It bothers me he has no reason for this behavior because to me, that is him saying this will just keep happening. If he told me “because I thought she was really hot” that would be better to me than him claiming he has some “instinct” to hunt other women. *eyeroll*

In other notes – we’ve been together for 9 years, married for 5. I am 29, H is 27. We have two young children, 5 and 1. I do not want to break up our family but I also don’t want to be miserable again feeling like he’s betraying me… I only get one life in this world, I want to spend that with a devoted husband. What should I do? Should I give him my three ultimatums? Should I practice 360? I’ve already had D papers drafted for now, that he can sign if he doesn’t agree to my ultimatums which I’m prepared to also bring to the table tonight when I lay out the steps he needs to take to salvage our relationship. I hold so much regret in staying with him in the beginning of our relationship and really wish I’d picked a better suited man… But it’s too late for that now. Right now I won’t feel comfortable with D unless I try everything to fix us, because unfortunately I do love him. If he picks D over my ultimatums then at least then I'll feel like I tried everything to keep it together.


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

And I mean practice 380, not 360 LOL


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He is 27 going on 12.

He needs to grow up, fast.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What is "380"?


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

Sorry I mean 180. My brain is not working properly right now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lisamaree said:


> Why do I feel so darn guilty making him give her up?! I immediately want to tell him he doesn’t have to get rid of her but I know that if I want to move forward he does have to do just that. But I feel awful.


Maybe you misinterpret your own feelings?

Could it be that it’s not that you feel guilty that making him give her up, but instead that this puts you the position of feeling like his mother? And you have no desire being his mother, telling him that he’s misbehaving and then handing out discipline?

That’s the position he’s putting you in. Now he’s the bad boy and you are his mommy. Some men like this relationship structure because then they can continue to act out and act like a clueless kid who takes no responsibility. I think that the last time my kids used “I don’t know” as an excuse they were about 12.

Stop feeling guilty, let your anger shine through. What you should be say to yourself is “How dare he put me in this position.”

By the way, I would be as much, or more furious about him saying bad things about you to another woman as I was about him flirting with her and trying to hit on her.

Your husband will most likely take this underground. He has a history and obviously wants to flirt and cheat. Were I you, I’d stop asking him to do things like delete her. You already asked him to. You don’t need to ask more than ONE time. He’s already lied to you since you confronted him last night. 

I would put a key logger on his computer without him knowing. Then I would check the logs to see what he’s up to. That is the only way you will know if he actually has stopped contacting women on his computer. 

The cell? He could have a burner phone. People use them all the time for affairs. A VAR (voice activated recorder) hidden in his car is the best way to find out if he’s using on. 

Doing things like going to counseling might work. But if you do not have a way to verify that he’s telling the truth you will never trust him again. He has to work to earn your trust back.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lisamaree said:


> Sorry I mean 180. My brain is not working properly right now.


Yes, you should be doing the 180. He's cheating and you have no idea if he's stopped. He needs to prove to you that he has and then start doing things to earn back your trust.


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks Ele, are there key loggers that work very discreetly? My husband is into IT and very computer savvy. I'm afraid he would find it. We have a very tight budget I don't know how he would afford a burner phone but I will look for one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Check your PM's 

And this thread 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My list of requirements included:

he had to allow me to put a key logger on his computer. If he deleted it or stopped it from running. 

He had to provide me with passwords all of this online accounts for everything.. email, dating sites, social media, etc etc.

He was not to have any online and/or phone contact with any woman except his mother and sisters. He had to tell me of any contact with any other woman.

We would read and work through the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters"

If he broke any of those I would divorce him, no warning.

This sort of thing comes from the Marriage Builder's concept that once a couple finds out that one of them as a weakness that threatens the marriage, they put in place extraordinary measure to protect the relationship based on those weaknesses.

All that worked for a number of years.. until I got lax checking up on him. 

Once I realized that he was no longer following the marriage changes we had made using "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" I checked his online activity. He was up to it again but this time it was "only" on-line and was not meeting the women in person for in-person physical affairs. "Only" emails, texting, sexting, ext.


I gave him one chance. I believe it was a HUGE gift to him. He blew it. I'm not his mommy and will not act like one. We are now divorced.

I shared that last bit to let you know that if you go down the path of putting in place rules and restructure your relationship, you will need to continue monitoring him for a very long time. 

He has a character flaw and may never be able to over come it on his own. 

You need to decide if you want to take on that role.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

First I am sorry that you are in this position. His behavior has been disrespectful and should not be tolerated. Now is the time to address the issues in the marriage and you appear to have a plan of attack to solve the issues. However, make sure that in the counseling phase that you also look at things that you can do to improve the relationship. I don't say this in an accusatory manner, just that there always things that we can improve about ourselves. Marriages work better when they consist of honest supporting partners.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Lisa - I remember you had another thread but don't remember what it was about. Little chance of finding it on my no history, mobile version of the site. It might've helped with behaviour patterns.

In isolation, the stand-out for me is the messages.

He's really pushing it. She's being friendly but maintaining distance. That's kinda good news, cuz she doesn't give the impression that she'll be looking to invite him over anytime her BF is away. The bad news is that he sounds like he might well go if she did.

No way to be sure but some people, male and female, seem to need that constant reassurance that they're still appealling to others. For some, flirting is enough. Hard to say which way he'd go but ALL the way doesn't seem unlikely from those examples.

Whether it's a fear of commitment or an intimacy thing,, the spouse is never enough for these types. The reassurance they OUGHT to get from you moving in with or marrying them is always short-lived. Then they go chasing again.

I think he's being quite honest with you about his motivations,, in so far as he understands them. The problem is that he seems to write it off as something you ought to accept as that's just the way he is,,, and not being too concerned with how you feel about it.

Well, you ARE distressed and he needs to acknowledge that and change. Follow the advice others have given. Don't put up with it. Get him into therapy to get to the 'issue' that causes him to seek external affection.

If he won't go, that tells you you aren't a priority and you need to move on and date types that'll cherish you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LM, I'm late to the party here, but here are my initial thoughts...

It is odd you should feel guilt. Don't. This is 100% on him and you have every right to do what you are doing.

It does sound like he is very flirty. And by that it seems as if he is a big talker but probably wouldn't go farther. At least it appears that way. Now, to be sure, that is no excuse for what he has done. And he has to answer for it. He just seems to be all talk and I suspect it to assure himself he can still attract women.

So what to do?

Continue to monitor. I dislike it, but he needs a leash.

He does need to go to counseling- and so should you with him. This is something the two of you should tackle together. Perhaps he needs something from you he cannot verbalize. And maybe you need a better understanding of him as well.

You say you still love him and want to salvage the marriage? OK, get in there and do just that. Mind you, he has to do most the heavy lifting, but make it a joint effort where his efforts are properly rewarded and you will do well.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

I discovered my husband's EA 7 months ago. It started much as you describe and continued on until they were "in love" and sexting. After much exploring we found that he had HORRIBLE boundaries. He had been flirting all over the internet for years. 

Your husband needs to be confronted and needs to learn what boundaries are. My husband had to do a 180 from who he was to who he now is trying to be in order to save our marriage. He is working hard to keep good boundaries which actually wasn't hard to learn. Now we just need to see if he can maintain them. He had to implement "rules" for himself. Things like- no messaging women on Facebook, no lunches alone with female coworkers, no texting women, etc. We found he had bad boundaries in other areas too- he let his clients take advantage of his "nice guy" image which basically resulted in him working for free. He had to learn to put our family first ahead of his clients and even ahead of himself. EA's are very selfish. 

Good luck!


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