# 7 years of dysfunction leading to divorce. Please help.



## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi. Thank you everyone in advance for helping.

Wow. where to start. Together 9 years, married 7. Shotgun wedding because of baby. We now have two sons. She was 21 and I was 23 turning 24 when we got married and had our first boy. This youth is a big problem in her mind when she plays back the story of her life.

She is a deeply troubled and depressed person. All of her close relationships in her life are broken down. Does not speak with her dad. Cousins and sisters don't care to be around her because she is so aggressive and insulting to everyone. 

On the other hand she can have a wonderful heart and can be very loving and supportive, especially to me. I was always the light of her life when she was having problems elsewhere, her crutch... I dont think it was a healthy dynamic. I put up with too much emotional manipulation, walking on eggshells and began to check out of the communication. Speaking about important things would always result in her going into a rage... Then I was of course the cold, distant heartless bad guy that didnt value her or make her feel appreciated when I put up a wall... so difficult to walk the tight rope.

She wants to leave now. I dragged her unwillingly from our home in a small town to the big city 4 years ago so I could get a degree and provide a better life for our family. I graduated with honours and now have a good job down here. She always felt like she had nothing so two years ago I invested in her to start photography when we couldn't afford it. It was all for her happiness and to compensate for the drive of our lives being led by me... I did not consult with her enough on these big decisions. I forced her hand. It was foolish of me.

We had to move in to the basement suite of my parents home. She hated this from day one and made it very unpleasant for everyone. Her and my brother cant get along and she would focus on every negative aspect. She said she tried so hard to see the positive, kept trying.. and ultimately was putting on a brave face and only staying for the kids. She said if we didnt have kids she would have left years ago. 

My issues were that I did not set enough boundaries between the living arrangements of my parents and our family. I was weak in this. But I would talk to my parents about it and they were willing to make adjustments but my wife would not be proactive in taking care of kids in our own suite. She did not make the effort to establish a home in the basement which forced my mom to take care of the kids while she edited, facebooked on the computer all day and night. 

She is in the other town now, in our home that we own and has been for the past month to do photography and build up some money for us to move out. While she was away she had the epiphany that she doesnt want to be with me anymore. Before she left she had a ballistic episode where she was screaming at the kids at the top of her lungs. I stepped in to stop it and in the process lost my temper with her too, shaking her shoulders and yelling at her to calm down... I am normally so calm but I love my kids so much and her emotional abuse of them made me snap. I apologized for my behaviour but told her how her behaviour is affecting the kids. I think that epidsode was the catalyst

She is now crying all the time, under stress up there and saying that she is done. She tells me she needs to find herself and discover what she wants in life. She says she is afraid of becoming her dad and she can see it happening. she wants to fix herself, do exercises and maybe do counselling... but she doesnt seem to want to fix our marriage. She tells me I deserve someone better and that she feels I am embarrassed of her. 

I love her so much but I dont know if we should be together.

I suspected emotional cheating up there with a close friend who has preyed on women in distressed relationships before. She was hanging around with him an awful lot and I voiced my displeasure. She has agreed not to see him until she returns. I have bits and pieces of conversations off of her facebook (I have passwords and she knows it) where she is talking about things with friends and he comes into the conversation. She sends them links to his picture. 

Her explanations sound good and ultimately we have our problems but I feel there is something there. I may be able to snoop better when she returns on wednesday with her laptop and phones.

So when she gets back we are going to "try" but she says she doesn't want me to be too hopeful. She wants to take it as it comes, one day at a time until June when she has to go back to the small town to do all the weddings she has up there. This is when our official separation is supposed to start. 

She even wants to give me all her equity in the home and will write it down in a formal agreement when she gets back. She wants me to keep the kids and agrees it is better for them. She tells me she loves me sometimes but in discussion often says she doesnt know if she is still in love anymore.. that the kind of love has changed.. REally really weird thing to hear. Never expected I would hear that from her.. she has always adored me, our sex is amazing. I leave her a quivering, laughing, crying hysterical mess on a regular basis.. lol and apparently this guy that Im worried about has a very small penis... and is a real nutjob a few months into relationships. but thats irrelevant at this point..

What do I do? 180 her when she gets back? Treat her with kindness? We already agreed to have sex when she returns. Go out with a bang like she says. Help please. I feel I should try , make individual changes in both of us and make a healthy strong intact family for the kids, if possible. I never wanted to get divorced... but could it be better for the kids in the end? UGh. Sorry about the length.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

I am now 30 and she is 28. Also. The guy is a big pothead and now she is smoking weed on her own to help her sleep and numb the pain.. she never did this before.. maybe she's doing it because she thinks it's cool too .I dont know..


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

And she doesn't want to live here in the city and I dont really want to live up there in the small town so ultimately it may be a fundamentally lost cause.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Besides doing a little more digging to try and find out if she is in an affair, you may want to read "Stop Walking on Eggshells". May help you get to the bottom of her 'issues'.

Free copy here: http://iostopensando2.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/levenmeteenborderliner.pdf

.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

All I can say is brace yourself brother. something tells me this is moving to the CWI forum.


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## kalimata (Jan 29, 2014)

Dude - sounds like she is having a full blown affair, not just an emotional one.

Start collecting evidence. Once you have enough, expose her filth to the entire world. Then confront and sit back. Do you really want to be with this type of person for the rest of your life?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personally, I would agree with her, take the kids, and start your life over without her.


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## UsernameHere (Sep 26, 2013)

HappyHubby said:


> Hi. Thank you everyone in advance for helping.
> 
> She even wants to give me all her equity in the home and will write it down in a formal agreement when she gets back. She *wants me to keep the kids* and agrees it is better for them. She tells me she loves me sometimes but in discussion often says she doesnt know if she is still in love anymore.. that the kind of love has changed..


So basically she just wants to be a walk away wife and leave you to I assume hold down a job, manage the house, kids and the aftermath of her walking. Doesn't seem a fair arrangement (maybe the house & finances is) but doesn't she care about the kids at all?

Her love has "changed" for you, most probably changed for a new man, I would dig further, it is perhaps very likely she has become attached to someone else if she is working for long periods away from you. 180 seems a good plan.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Your story resonates with me, loads of similarities--parents basement, photography career, two kids, could have been me telling your story.

She now knows what it's like to feel independent and self sufficient. She married young, had no real say in her life, and felt dragged down with a family. The other guy is just part of this new and exciting life for her. No point in trying to expose and blow up as suggested here. She will not go back to you at this point. She will want to see what life is really like with her in charge. You should take up her offer. Push through with full custody of the children for you and zero support. 

Set her free now and let her develop and evolve as a person. As the mother of your children, you will still be in touch with her. Who knows, down the road you may even end up with her again, but the next time as a mature person.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Her weak attachment to her own children says everything. Accept her offer. Tell her that she going to have an exciting career. There are famous women who left their children to pursue lives as artists. Maybe she will be one. One thing is certain. No sane and rational man will want to LTR or M with her because she will not care for her own baby chicks.

You need to go into therapy to explore what attracted you to such a person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Agree with alpha. Let her go and see if the grass is greener. Get custody of your kids and get the house. She is very mixed up. For god's sake don't get her pregnant again. 

If you try to coerce or convince her to stay it will have the opposite effect. 

It's very painful but you have to let her go. The kids will suffer if she feels trapped and resentful.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Where is Uptown?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Where is Uptown?


LOL, Catherine, I'm here lurking in the shadows -- just waiting to see if Hubby returns to respond to the excellent suggestions made by nine respondents over the past week. Thanks for thinking of me! I noticed Hubby's thread several days ago and read his other three threads at that time. I agree with you and Tron that Hubby seems to be describing behaviors -- i.e., temper tantrums, rapid flips from adoring him to devaluing him, always being "The Victim" (with Hubby being the "bad guy"), controlling, and verbal abuse -- that are classic warning signs for BPD. 

It is unclear, however, whether his W has a persistent history of being emotionally unstable -- an essential trait of BPD. Hubby seems to suggest the instability has been persistent -- with his "7 years of dysfunction" -- but says very little about it above and nothing at all in his other three threads. I find it confusing why, if Hubby has been living with an unstable woman for 7 years, he would start four threads and write 280 posts while complaining about her apparent instability in only a few paragraphs. Another important BPD trait that is missing is a strong fear of abandonment, which would be most apparent in irrational jealousy. Hubby makes no mention of such a fear or jealousy.

Hubby, if you return to this thread, I suggest you read about BPD traits to see if you recognize most of the warning signs. An easy place to start is Tron's excellent book suggestion, _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, which is the best-selling BPD book targeted to the abused spouses. Also, here on the TAM forum, I provide an overview of BPD warning signs in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that information rings some bells, I'm sure Catherine and Tron would be glad to join me in discussing those red flags with you. Take care, Hubby.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi Everyone. Thank you.

I have been away making sense of everything - trying to get perspective.

I didnt mention anything about her in previous threads because I found this site randomly one day and was simply interested in learning more about the pitfalls that couples run into during marriage. I naively thought that I would not be in the infidelity boat. I am..

She is here with me now in the city and I tried to coax some hope out of her to reconcile in order to be a family.. for the love that we have for each other and for the kids... did not work.

We had sex four nights in a row, she cuddled with me after and i can tell that there is love there. She just wants to be free...

Monday was our 7th year wedding anniversary. We went out to our favorite Italian restaurant on Sunday night, enjoyed a good meal, talked about serious stuff, cried on the way home and made love for that fourth night in a row... she fell asleep on my chest with music playing on her phone.... I then took her phone while she slept and plugged it into wondershare dr fone. I read many deleted messages and my suspicions about that guy are true. From what I gather, they have not had sex yet but she has wanted to..they have probably gotten somewhat physical and have been sneaking around alot, talking about me and hiding it from everyone. im grossed out. HE is the one that slowed it down out of fear of repercussions and because she is still married to me and needs to figure her **** out. He even said something about needing space lol.. she is pursuing him.. ****ing pisses me off. I am steak and he is hamburger on so many levels... affairing down is so true.

So far I have quietly exposed to her family and her well-respected, big uncle is going to have a talk with that guy and put me on the phone so I can speak with him. Im going to ruin that little fantasy for her because its just not right to do that to me... and then Im going to let her go and take the deal she is giving me.. but I will give her a few calm choice words about integrity, character and how disappointed i am in her. I will tell her that as of right now friendship is off the table because friends don't betray each other like that. We will be friendly for the kids and thats it. I know she really cares for me and wants my friendship... It will break her heart - but I dont deserve this..

If Im being honest I still want to **** her for the sake of sex but I think thats a bad idea and sends the wrong message. I will abstain.

And YES...
she has always had emotional problems her whole life. She terrorizes people when she gets angry - which is often.Her family cant believe I stuck with her for so long ... and yes I have to figure out why I DID choose to stay and why I even bothered fighting for this... my god.. I have to let go of the pristine image of my life I had planned.

So far I have worked out 3 times in the last week and it feels great. I am super excited to get ripped and pumped this summer and get lots of new sex. hahaha..

Any advice on when to confront and how to? Should I kick her out of our bed? I was hoping to wait until after her Uncle and I talk with that guy and then blow it open on her.. she will be so shocked.. she thinks im oblivious right now.

should I start a new thread in infidelity section?


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

She is more like bipolar then BPD to be honest (in my unprofessional opinion). Ive thought about this over the years. Just complete mood swings and rages over pointless stuff but is not jealous or totally insane... definitely emotionally manipulative and terrorizing though


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

You may respond here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...air-confirmed-best-strategy-self-respect.html


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have read your entire post and here are my observations:


You both got married young and from what I understand, under pressured conditions (pregnancy) and before she had a chance to live a young life 
She has a strong (although undeveloped) personality and the worst thing you could have done was (a) move her out of her hometown where she was known, liked, confident and felt safe; and (b) move her into your parents house with poor boundaries - this with young kids would have driven me nuts!
She badly wants out as she could take it no more - no wonder she formed a bond with someone as soon as she could
She still wants you (has sex with you, cuddles, says she loves you) but feels it is too late and wants to take what she sees as a chance to recover her youth (clearly not thinking right as she has two young kids who need her) - so they need her to do the right thing and she needs you to do the same
I know you were thinking of your family by getting your degree and better job but she probably saw it as all about you when you couldn't see what she was going through

I would never condone or justify an affair and if she has cheated then that is wrong of her and she will no doubt face the consequences - however at the moment she is welcoming the consequences and will not show remorse due to the reasons above.

You need to continue with killing this affair first - as you have started to do via her uncle - this POS pothead should not be around her at all.

You then need to decide whether you can get over the affair or not.

If not, then divorce quickly. Try to ensure that she gets some help/counselling for her rage issues (although I think that these will die down quickly when she gets back into her environment). Insist that she has partial/50:50 custody or some regular contact with her kids (for the good of the kids and the right thing to do).

If you can get over the affair and you love her (as you have stated), then you have to decide which is more important to you - your job and financial well being (you and your kids) OR your wife and family's emotional well being/happiness. I am hoping that you see the rhetorical question here and select the latter. If so, focus on what she needs, be the man you would want your daughter to marry, listen and understand and then help her. Go back to her hometown if necessary, get out of your parents basement ASAP, give her some leeway to be young (no cheating of course) - do whatever it takes as I do not believe this should be over.

My 2 cents worth! Hope it goes well for you all.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

HappyHubby said:


> She is more like bipolar then BPD to be honest (in my unprofessional opinion). Ive thought about this over the years. Just complete mood swings and rages over pointless stuff but is not jealous or totally insane... definitely emotionally manipulative and terrorizing though.


Perhaps she is bipolar as you suspect, Hubby. That is not what you're describing, however. "Rages" and "terrorizing" are warning signs for BPD, not bipolar. If your W has both disorders, you likely will find that the BPD traits are much more difficult to live with than the bipolar traits.

I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar-1 foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found many clear differences between the two disorders.

*One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_ and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _devaluing you_.

*A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. 

*A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).

*A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

*A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

*A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see (i.e., the _"terrorizing"_ you describe) when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of very hateful, spiteful behavior (e.g., having you thrown into jail for six months on a bogus charge).

*A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger. This BPD warning sign is consistent with the frequent "rages" you describe.

*An eight difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

*A ninth difference* is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings. 

*A tenth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

*An eleventh difference* is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by frequently blaming every misfortune on the spouse.

*Finally, a twelfth difference* is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

HappyHubby said:


> So far I have quietly exposed to her family and her well-respected, big uncle is going to have a talk with that guy and put me on the phone so I can speak with him. I'm going to ruin that little fantasy for her because its just not right to do that to me... and then I'm going to let her go and take the deal she is giving me.. but I will give her a few calm choice words about integrity, character and how disappointed I am in her. I will tell her that as of right now friendship is off the table because friends don't betray each other like that. We will be friendly for the kids and that's it.


Excellent.



HappyHubby said:


> Any advice on when to confront and how to? Should I kick her out of our bed? I was hoping to wait until after her Uncle and I talk with that guy and then blow it open on her..


IIWY, I would wait to do all this until AFTER you get her to sign something in front of a lawyer, giving you the kids.


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