# how do APs rationalise destroying a family?



## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

I mean, I get that they're bad people for screwing a married person, but from an OM's perspective, because I'm male and not because I've ever been an OM, you could rationalise that in your head by thinking that she's in a bad marriage and has a ****ty husband, according to her proclamations.

but man, does it not occur to them that they are destroying those children's lives? even if the affair is never discovered, obviously the marriage will deteriorate even further as a result of one spouse being in love with someone outside of the marriage.

of course, if it is discovered, either divorce or reconciliation happens and both are equally horrible, because even if the couple reconciles, there will be so many violent fights about the affair and these will all happen in the children's presence or they will at least recognise that mommy and daddy are mad at each other.

idk what I'd have done prior to discovering websites like TAM and stuff, but if I met a vulnerable married woman now, no matter how hot she may be, I'd try to help her fix her marriage and give her husband another chance and go find a hot single girl to ****. 

STUPID HOMEWRECKERS RUINING CHILDHOODS JUST FOR SOME WORTHLESS SEX!

p.s. I deleted my old thread because I thought it was a stupid topic and this one was better, sorry guys love you all.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

They just don't care about anyone other than themselves.

Don't overcomplicate it. Many people are just straight up heartless.

APs are just the tool. The WS's are the home wreckers. Accept that.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I don't think guys think about it at all.

Thought process: <get laid> <get laid> <get laid> <get laid> <eat sandwich>
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

They have many thoughts.

Selfishness is the most prominent. He is horny and doesn't care, as long as she is willing, and most women he takes will prove their willingness and acceptance of his advances. They will even show they want more. 

KISA The woman complains and cries on his shoulder. He is angry with the husband for what he believes he has done to this woman. He feels bad for her and wants to help her. 

Desire to always know they are first choice and be the one dumping the woman, so they can always stay in the back of that woman's mind as the one that got away. It gives them a feeling of power and control they believe they lack in their own lives.

Sometimes, they can't find a single woman they can respect, so they find a married woman who exudes the qualities they respect and then they lose that respect after they realize they have found someone who doesn't deserve it. That's after the sex.

I'm sure there are many reasons or excuses. These are some.

Remember, she is willing or it would be rape. Even an AP doesn't want to go to jail. He just wants his desires to be fulfilled.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

I don't get it either, I am dealing with it right now. With a coworker she used to hate, no less!!!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> They just don't care about anyone other than themselves.
> 
> Don't overcomplicate it. Many people are just straight up heartless.
> 
> APs are just the tool. The WS's are the home wreckers. Accept that.





metallicaluvr said:


> I mean, I get that they're bad people for screwing a married person, but from an OM's perspective, because I'm male and not because I've ever been an OM, you could rationalise that in your head by thinking that she's in a bad marriage and has a ****ty husband, according to her proclamations.
> 
> but man, does it not occur to them that they are destroying those children's lives? even if the affair is never discovered, obviously the marriage will deteriorate even further as a result of one spouse being in love with someone outside of the marriage.
> 
> ...


*That they are putting family members in peril is not even a part of their rationale or equation!

Unfortunately, getting their "rocks off"-dopamine high, as secretly and as covertly as possible with somebody else is!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

WhyMe66 said:


> I don't get it either, I am dealing with it right now. With a coworker she used to hate, no less!!!


Likely she didn't truly hate him, but was jealous.

How do you feel when you purchase something that you later find out wasn't as advertised, but you had to take out a big loan to have? 

Sorry, I know that might be hurtful.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Metal ~

Your question has been an unanswered one since the beginning of time and there are a boatload of people here on TAM who wish they had the answer.

Why does anyone knowingly, willingly, deliberately and intentionally indulge in an affair with a married person with a family?

Because they are selfish, self-centered, probably narcissist, probably has some type of a personality disorder, probably had a messed up childhood and/or a cold distant parent and now has deep-seeded issues. loves the thrills of secret trysts .............need I go on?

People who are well-balanced, loving and empathetic will never understand the evils that possess a cheater.

VH


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> Metal ~
> 
> Your question has been an unanswered one since the beginning of time and there are a boatload of people here on TAM who wish they had the answer.
> 
> ...


Yep, that's why I posted once, "because they wanted to". Because really, that's the bottom line. Nothing you can do if they want to cheat, WS or AP.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

VeryHurt said:


> Metal ~
> 
> Your question has been an unanswered one since the beginning of time and there are a boatload of people here on TAM who wish they had the answer.
> 
> ...


I get that, I asked this question because of my belief that there's no one in this world who is 100% evil. 

Hell, even PRISONERS beat up child molesters. Why? Because they harmed a CHILD, god damn it!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

It is the cheating spouse that destroys the family, not the AP.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

metallicaluvr said:


> I get that, I asked this question because of my belief that there's no one in this world who is 100% evil.
> 
> Hell, even PRISONERS beat up child molesters. Why? Because they harmed a CHILD, god damn it!


Judging against what baseline? I don't believe anyone is 100% evil either. But, what exactly does 100% evil look like? What does 100% good look like?

I understand completely the idea that it's okay to beat up a child molester, but is it "good", as you have intimated? Not sure in the greater sense of it. And, isn't that what you are talking about here, the greater sense of evil? 

Last paragraph written so you understand I'm not defending child molestation or molesters, just trying to explain why I think it's not an example of "good".


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

First of all none of them think they will get caught . 

After that , why would you think they are thinking at all about anything but instant gratification . 

Whether you are a man or woman , your problem is your wife or husband , not the AP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> It is the cheating spouse that destroys the family, not the AP.


Yeah, why be an accessory to destroying a family though? YKWIM? if the WS is the gun, why be the bullet? 

You can do two things when a hot married woman wants to **** you: 1) **** her or 2) try to drive some sense into her head.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> It is the cheating spouse that destroys the family, not the AP.


Just to get you to think about this defense of the AP, who might just be appreciated in a way the BS is not, take away the WS or the AP and what do you have?

So, there has to be someone looking and someone receptive, or the whole thing falls apart. 

Someone once posted something like, what if the AP doesn't know the WS is married? Well, doesn't everyone have a responsibility to themselves, to know what they are getting into? Sure we all make mistakes. Even when it's a mistake, at some point, it becomes a decision. When is that? 

Wouldn't respect for a BS look like divorce before affair? If I'm thinking of someone all the time, don't I owe it to myself, my dignity, my self-respect, to look into what is bothering me? 

Wouldn't I feel rightly proud and be a better person for knowing myself and addressing my issues? Wouldn't I be a more responsible adult to take the high and hard road of divorce instead of an affair which has to include lies, deception, gas lighting, financial irresponsibility, disrespect, hate, denial of real love of self, and so much more? 

Life can be tough. Affairs only make it tougher.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

metallicaluvr said:


> Yeah, why be an accessory to destroying a family though? YKWIM? if the WS is the gun, why be the bullet?
> 
> You can do two things when a hot married woman wants to **** you: 1) **** her or 2) try to drive some sense into her head.


You must be young. Your perspective will change in 10-15 years. I used to think like you.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

metallicaluvr said:


> Yeah, why be an accessory to destroying a family though? YKWIM? if the WS is the gun, why be the bullet?
> 
> You can do two things when a hot married woman wants to **** you: 1) **** her or 2) try to drive some sense into her head.


Disagree with driving some sense into her head. Why? She will only convince your weakened mind that you want her as much or more.

You have no responsibility to her, only yourself and your marriage. Just get away and stay away. There is always a way of removing yourself from their presence. 

Don't want to lose what you have built over the years? Learn a new lesson. You gave up what you built when it began and you didn't get away immediately or put a stop to it. These are consequences of actions. Have the guts to face them and any others that were "unintended".


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I think the question, while a good one,, misses what is going on. The AP never really had the be family in their mind or heart, with the exception of folks who know and are close to the family.

A stranger has no real knowledge or concern for your family. They are an existential concept. Sort of like WW's here. Male BS 's here are quick to blast another's WW and say divorce the *****. Why? Because she's not their wife. Her qualities, etc mean nothing to them. OTOH they stay with their ww. Its not hypocrisy, per we. Its just that she is a concept and not a person. Soooo, to and AP, thew other family is a concept. Its easy to disregard a concept.

For those who know or are close to the other family, well.... Evil and selfish.

In the end, the WS beards all of that responsibility. They had the most invested and still cheated. That is where the focus should be.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

WhyMe66 said:


> I don't get it either, I am dealing with it right now. With a coworker she used to hate, no less!!!


I can sympathize with that. Same situation here. I think the initial hate actually feeds in the affair. IMO the cheater has strong emotions about the OM, in our cases it's hatred. Then when/if the other person starts showing any kindness, it starts the snowball rolling and swings the emotional feeling completely to the other side, moving to EA and then PA.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

I won't lie, the hatred is mutual now but I think this <f-bomb> just does it because he likes to play with his giggle stick. He is wracking up points...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bigfoot said:


> I think the question, while a good one,, misses what is going on. The AP never really had the be family in their mind or heart, with the exception of folks who know and are close to the family.
> 
> A stranger has no real knowledge or concern for your family. They are an existential concept. Sort of like WW's here. Male BS 's here are quick to blast another's WW and say divorce the *****. Why? Because she's not their wife. Her qualities, etc mean nothing to them. OTOH they stay with their ww. Its not hypocrisy, per we. Its just that she is a concept and not a person. Soooo, to and AP, thew other family is a concept. Its easy to disregard a concept.
> 
> ...


Can you help me understand your rationalization of the responsibility of the AP? 

I am actually thinking that these AP's are more evil, due to your explanation. I don't think you meant that. Did you?


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

He is a man *****, things she despised... And she would cuss about him, being a royal a$$hole to her at work, nitpicking on trivial matters. I understand why, they have to face FAA compliance, but I also saw what else was going on; he was acting like the seven year old that would punch the girl in the arm at recess to get her attention. Dip her pigtails in inkwells. I was just stupid enough to think it wouldn't work on her...


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

bigfoot said:


> I think the question, while a good one,, misses what is going on. The AP never really had the be family in their mind or heart, with the exception of folks who know and are close to the family.
> 
> A stranger has no real knowledge or concern for your family. They are an existential concept. Sort of like WW's here. Male BS 's here are quick to blast another's WW and say divorce the *****. Why? Because she's not their wife. Her qualities, etc mean nothing to them. OTOH they stay with their ww. Its not hypocrisy, per we. Its just that she is a concept and not a person. Soooo, to and AP, thew other family is a concept. Its easy to disregard a concept.
> 
> ...


Dude, that's like saying you can kill a stranger because that stranger means nothing to you.

Btw, FWIW, I'm here after getting fed up of SI, and the BH's that reconcile there seem to always push for reconciliation with others too, no matter how disgusting the betrayal. Vice-versa with divorced husbands. Anyway, that's off-topic but just my response to your statement


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> Sort of like WW's here. Male BS 's here are quick to blast another's WW and say divorce the *****. Why? Because she's not their wife. Her qualities, etc mean nothing to them.


Nonsense... I practice what I preach. Many of us advise from experience.

I was officially divorced from my WW 6 weeks after D-Day and that took too long in my opinion.

I have since been proven right time and again that she was remorseless and would never change. They RARELY do.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

To respond:

Just because you may practice what you preach does not mean others do. I read several forums, not just this one. The vitriol by some BS's to divorce the cheating harlot is often commented upon by the betrayed. Heck, many, post R or post D often point that out in their "epilogue" so to speak.

To say that it is easier to "kill a stranger than someone you know" is exactly what I meant to say. AP's who have no connection to the betrayed's family don't care about them one bit. They are concepts. Look into old target practice to see why they started using human shaped targets rather than bullseyes. It was harder to shoot a human target in real life because that made it seem more real. 

In the context of infidelity, it does not make one "better" simply because you did not know the kids or the human fall out. I simply point out that it made it easier. Heck, take this forum. How many here, who have gone after another poster for something they disagreed with use the same tone, language and aggressiveness with people that you know? It's rare. The beauty of the internet is that folks don't see the human on the other side. It what makes trolling people so easy. That is a documented fact. The same applies in affairs. If the AP does not know the kids, they can ruin their lives pretty easily.

Finally, I don't make excuses or rationalizations for cheaters. In my world, I have seen people do unspeakable things to others. I genuinely mean the stuff of nightmares. I deal with evil often. As a result, I like to understand what enabled them to do what they did.

I've learned that criminals, some not all, depersonalize their victims. They will say that they did not see the kid as their ______. Instead, just an object. Now, to me, that is no excuse. It does not make them "better" than the one who sees he victim as they really are. Still, it allowed me to understand the mental workings of monsters. I learned from some old detectives that to catch a criminal, you had to think like one (not become one). Understand their motivation, mentality, etc. That is one reason why serial killers are so hard to catch. They lack a "normal" starting point. We have gotten better at catching them and tracking them because we studied them. We can profile them. 

Thus, in my clinical (detached) way of viewing the question and in light of the WS's who have talked about their mentality, you see a detachment. The so called relationship exists in this fantasy world that they created. The consequences were not real probabilities to them at the time. The pain of their spouses was not even something they could conceptualize. Now add to that the fact that you want to know if they thought of the other person's family. Of course not. It was even easier if they did not know the family. 

While I fault AP's without qualfication (except for the one's who did not know they were the OP) I lay the blame squarely on the WS. To risk their family, who they know, allegedly love, and are supposed to protect, is to me the ultimate betrayal. In my mind, the AP was not expected to care (I know it ignores basic human decency, but let's be real), but the WS was.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I didn't figure it wrong, @bigfoot. I got you loud and clear. Thank you for explaining. 

According to you, those AP's are equivalent to a serial killer or a child abuser. They have no desire to consider the consequences of their actions or that the person they are having sex with is a human being with a life, loves, dislikes, a family which possibly includes children though definitely includes folks she considers as important in her life, a life which she loves so much that she will attempt to ruin what she built to live happily by having an affair with someone she knows less about than her own husband. He knows she is desperate as does a serial killer with a victim. It causes him to feel powerful and godlike. It gives him comfort to know he has some control in a life without control. And, we all have lives which we can't control much other than our own actions and reactions.

Guess what? You proved further to me that the AP is as much at fault or more, than a poor abused woman who is just seeking to satisfy her sexual desires, her need to be respected, not physically and/or emotionally hurt anymore, and who is just wanting to be loved and cared for. 

Seems by your explanation, the AP is a monster, though I doubt he really is. He's just a simpleton whose britches(colloquialism for breeches) are bigger than his capacity for real understanding and empathy. 

Something isn't right with your response. I'll think about it. Thank you for explaining.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I don't know how they can not look at the families they are disrupting.

When I was between the ages of 16 and about 19 I had a few offers from married woman for sex, I always backed off when I thought about their children. I remember thinking "this is little Davids Mom" etc. Not that the offer was not tempting. 

Tamat


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> Just because you may practice what you preach does not mean others do. I read several forums, not just this one. The vitriol by some BS's to divorce the cheating harlot is often commented upon by the betrayed.


Now you're just over complicating like the OP.

The question to reconcile is based on one factor. Is the WS remorseful? 95% of the time, based on the poster's statements, they are not so most of the time the advise is to divorce.

That's it. It has nothing to do with projecting or bitterness or vitriol. Many BS's are in a fog and are looking for some "magic wand" solution rather than being told the cold truth. Ironically, denial many times is what put them in their situation in the first place.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Speaking from a male perspective, you can characterize the AP as a selfish SOB, but that's an over simplification. Everyone typically looks out for their self interest in most respects. From reading these post it seems most BH are more than willing for the "POSOM" to bear the brunt of the blame for the affair. Like it or not, here's my observation over 12+ years with numerous married female clients.
1. Without the risk of serious jail time, you cannot make a woman do anything she doesn't want to do.
2. Women who cheat have lost that loving feeling for her husband. The phrase they use, "ILYBINILWY" is typically repeated, after changing the "you" to "him", to the man they now choose to be with as "womanese" to justify the affair, (mostly to herself), but not divorcing her old man. The OM really doesn't give a crap why she's cheating. Out of the many unfaithful women I've known, I've yet to see one that wanted to stay married because they love and respected their husband.
3. Despite the claim by many BH that she just says she is mistreated, ignored, or abused, its often their perspective and oftentimes true. Just because the husband wants to believe all is well, men oftentimes ignore or reject what their wives are telling them via words or body language. 
4. From the OM perspective, he figures if she's primed to cheat on her husband, (a) it's his problem, and (b) most important, if he doesn't take her up on her offer, some guy down the line will, so he's really not doing anything that ain't going to get done anyway and it may as well be him enjoying her charms. It ain't the OM who's destroying your marriage. Its your wife, who's willing to scheme, lie and pay out your family money in order to meet me. If you're expecting other guys to run interference to block your wife from cheating , you ain't going to have a lot of luck. 
The only thing more pathetic than a guy who whines around blaming everybody but his wife and himself for the demise of his marriage, is the guy who marries one of these habitual cheating chicks thinking he has what it takes to tame her.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Speaking from a male perspective, you can characterize the AP as a selfish SOB, but that's an over simplification. Everyone typically looks out for their self interest in most respects. From reading thses post it seems most BH are more than will for the "POSOM" to bear the brunt of the blame for the affair. Like it or not, here's my observation over 12+ years with numerous married female clients.
> 1. Without the risk of serious jail time, you cannot make a woman do anything she doesn't want to do.
> 2. Women who cheat have lost that loving feeling for her husband. The phrase they use, "ILYBINILWY" is typically repeated, after changing the "you" to "him", to the man they now choose to be with as "womanese" to justify the affair, (mostly to herself), but not divorcing her old man. The OM really doesn't give a crap why she's cheating. Out of the many unfaithful women I've known, I've yet to see one that wanted to stay married because they love and respected their husband.
> 3. Despite the claim by many BH that she just says she is mistreated, ignored, or abused, its often their perspective and oftentimes true. Just because the husband wants to believe all is well, men oftentimes ignore or reject what their wives are telling them via words or body language.
> ...


You misunderstand. This is about who is to blame for the affair, not the demise of the marriage.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> I didn't figure it wrong, @bigfoot. I got you loud and clear. Thank you for explaining.
> 
> According to you, those AP's are equivalent to a serial killer or a child abuser. They have no desire to consider the consequences of their actions or that the person they are having sex with is a human being with a life, loves, dislikes, a family which possibly includes children though definitely includes folks she considers as important in her life, a life which she loves so much that she will attempt to ruin what she built to live happily by having an affair with someone she knows less about than her own husband. He knows she is desperate as does a serial killer with a victim. It causes him to feel powerful and godlike. It gives him comfort to know he has some control in a life without control. And, we all have lives which we can't control much other than our own actions and reactions.
> 
> ...



Whoa there cowboy, 

That is SERIOUSLY NOT my point. Maybe you are wanting to debate this issue, and I will back out because you have misconstrued my point in a most remarkable way. 

1. Not saying they are like serial killers. Not saying they enjoy and get off on power. In fact, my point applies whether the AP is male or female. That is why I used AP and not OM. Repeat: AP!!! The serial killer point was just to illustrate another point and was not a comparison. 

2. Never once suggested a helpless female looking to get her sexual desires fulfilled was taken advantage of by an OM. That is just plain ridiculous. Like that is actually the most ridiculous twisting of what I wrote to the point that you have got to be kidding me. That animal does not exist. The horny tormented innocent woman who loves her family but is seduced and ravished by some sexual sociopath?!! NOPE. FALSE. 

Not even sure how else to respond to that. Look: Horny faithful wives are a dime a dozen. Horny faithful husbands are a dime a dozen. The key point is "FAITHFUL". Lot's of folks go thru dry spells, etc. and stay faithful. Sickness and no sex: Faithful. Distance and no sex: Faithful. Angry and no sex: Faithful. Cheater: Not faithful.

Whether one calls it a one time thing, lapse, cry for help, loneliness, misdirection, manifestation of brokenness, FOO, whatever the term of the day happens to be, my position is clear: A cheater is a cheater. Horny. Not horny. Lonely. Not lonely. Unfulfilled. Fulfilled. I've seen them all. In the end, they were just CHEATERS. Remorseful? I don't care. It does not change that label "cheater". Its like "alcoholic" to me. Are they worth the risk again, that is up to the BS. Maybe remorse factors in, but that is up to the BS. I have no dog in that fight. 

3. AP is worse? Absolutely did not say that. I think anyone that betrays their family, risks their kid's future and emotional and mental health, destroys their spouse all for a roll in the hay is the worst to me. It may just be me, but I view that as worse, relative to that particular family. Obviously, if the AP is married with kids then they are worse, relative to that family. Both are garbage, but to me, it takes a special kind of garbage to ruin your own family.

4. @BetrayedDad: I don't disagree with your point, I think that since all of this occurs more on a spectrum, what you said and what I said are true. Would that it could be simplified, but we could each pick and post numerous replies from other threads to support our position.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bigfoot said:


> Whoa there cowboy,
> 
> That is SERIOUSLY NOT my point. Maybe you are wanting to debate this issue, and *I will back out* because you have misconstrued my point in a most remarkable way.


Okay. 



> 1. Not saying they are like serial killers. Not saying they enjoy and get off on power. In fact, my point applies whether the AP is male or female. That is why I used AP and not OM. Repeat: AP!!! The serial killer point was just to illustrate another point and was not a comparison.
> 
> 2. Never once suggested a helpless female looking to get her sexual desires fulfilled was taken advantage of by an OM. That is just plain ridiculous. Like that is actually the most ridiculous twisting of what I wrote to the point that you have got to be kidding me. That animal does not exist. The horny tormented innocent woman who loves her family but is seduced and ravished by some sexual sociopath?!! NOPE. FALSE.
> 
> ...


I'll back out of this debate with you, too. Though, I won't give a long explanation before I do to offer more to debate. I can agree with more in this than your previous posts. Not that it matters. Happy holiday!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> You misunderstand. This is about who is to blame for the affair, not the demise of the marriage.


The question is "how do APs rationalise destroying a family?"
I attempted to answer it in my post. Hence,



ThePheonix said:


> _ It ain't the OM who's destroying your marriage. Its your wife, who's willing to scheme, lie and pay out your family money in order to meet me. _


As far as the demise of the marriage, its typically on life support before an affair begins. At least that's my observation. Moreover, having sex, booty call, or whatever you want to call it is only part of the purpose of an affair.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

metallicaluvr said:


> I mean, I get that they're bad people for screwing a married person, but from an OM's perspective, because I'm male and not because I've ever been an OM, you could rationalise that in your head by thinking that she's in a bad marriage and has a ****ty husband, according to her proclamations.
> 
> but man, does it not occur to them that they are destroying those children's lives? even if the affair is never discovered, obviously the marriage will deteriorate even further as a result of one spouse being in love with someone outside of the marriage.
> 
> ...


The response I've heard from folks is usually "I'm not cheating, they are." 

It's none of their business. They're not ruining someone's home, the married person who is cheating is.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> The question is "how do APs rationalise destroying a family?"
> I attempted to answer it in my post.


My mistake. I must have read more than the title.



> Hence,
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the demise of the marriage, its typically on life support before an affair begins. At least that's my observation. Moreover, having sex, booty call, or whatever you want to call it is only part of the purpose of an affair.


This is somewhat different than your original post seemed to imply.

I agree that the demise of the marriage is usually there before the affair, minus the documents for legal divorce. 

Now I'm curious. What do you believe are the other purposes for an affair?


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Regarding what ThePhoenix said about only unhappily married women cheating, sometimes there are exceptions. I'm sure you all know spaceghost0007? In any case, his wife truly was in love with him, but her boss was a rich, desperate mother****er who bought his way into her pants.

Sometimes there are OM who can manipulate even a happily married woman into cheating. Those are true *******s. In SG's case, his children were all grown, but regardless, they are still a family.

Another mind**** to me is how sometimes when a WW is caught, she starts repainting the relationship to look like it was all unicorns and rainbows and she was just a stupid ***** for cheating. That makes no sense. If you really are someone like that, then lock yourself at home and stay away from relationships.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Selfish, shytty crotch monsters.

I have more respect for armpit fungus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Speaking from a male perspective, you can characterize the AP as a selfish SOB, but that's an over simplification. Everyone typically looks out for their self interest in most respects.


Please enlighten us to the complexities of the AP if saying they are selfish is oversimplified LOL. I'd love to know in what way sleeping with another man's wife ISN'T selfish. You realize self interest and selfishness are not the same thing. 

I know you doubt it but some people do hold themselves to a higher moral standard. I'll agree with you that if it wasn't this guy it would be someone else anyway. Dirt bags are a dime a dozen. The WS is the betrayer whose is breaking their vows. APs are just there for the free lunch. Rational people understand this concept.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

metallicaluvr said:


> Regarding what ThePhoenix said about only unhappily married women cheating, sometimes there are exceptions. I'm sure you all know spaceghost0007? In any case, his wife truly was in love with him, but her boss was a rich, desperate mother****er who bought his way into her pants.
> 
> Sometimes there are OM who can manipulate even a happily married woman into cheating. Those are true *******s. In SG's case, his children were all grown, but regardless, they are still a family.
> 
> Another mind**** to me is how sometimes when a WW is caught, she starts repainting the relationship to look like it was all unicorns and rainbows and she was just a stupid ***** for cheating. That makes no sense. If you really are someone like that, then lock yourself at home and stay away from relationships.


That is no better. I don't classify selling your ass to your rich boss to be an expression of love in any form.

Her actions show radical contempt for her husband and herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Most men that cheat are doing it for the sex. They usually can have the sex without falling in love. Woman are not built that way but the man is thinking that she's like him. That they can have "fun" but they're not going to destroy their families. 

Today's society has convinced women they are just like men, just different plumbing. Wrong. When a woman cheats, she's replacing her husband. Most times, they stop having sex with their husband so they can be true to their man. They start rewriting the marital history to justify destroying the marriage. 

I've lost count of the number of threads I've read of WW posting their story on LS. It starts with, it's just sex and ends with divorce with a broken home for her kids. What's so disturbing reading these women's threads, is how all they can think about is the POSOM. Their former BH and their kids broken home don't phase them. Meanwhile, MM goes back to his BW with a new confidence that he's still got it and his wife gets drawn to this new man.
So no repercussions for the man, while the woman becomes a divorcee with kids .


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Some AP do NOT know the WS is married. They have been lied too.

About the "because even if the couple reconciles, there will be so many violent fights about the affair and these will all happen in the children's presence " - with grown ups, some thoughful thinking and goals, maybe therapy - there isn't VIOLENT FIGHTS.

So far, we haven't have any. I have not had the urge to beat up my WW, ever. Angry - yes. We sit down and talk in our 1 on 1 sessions or with counseling.

Screaming at each other like banshees doesn't fix anything.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Many of them are narcissists, and narcissists lack empathy. They know right from wrong, they just don't care. The best way to deal with a narcissist, is to not deal with one.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> That is no better. I don't classify selling your ass to your rich boss to be an expression of love in any form.
> 
> Her actions show radical contempt for her husband and herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, she is just as horrible as he is. Don't worry, dude. God forbid, if I ever get cheated on, I swear on God's green Earth that I'll divorce her at the speed of light.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

metallicaluvr said:


> Yup, she is just as horrible as him. Don't worry, dude. God forbid, if I ever get cheated on, I swear on God's green Earth that I'll divorce her at the speed of light.


Is SG on TAM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think my Dad's AP wanted a meal ticket and that's how she justified sleeping with a married man. She thought my Dad was well off because he owned his own business and lived in a nice suburb. She was a thirty-ish, single mom. We were really just your average middle class family. My Dad's business had its good years and bad. She was so confident that my Dad would leave my Mom, that she knocked on our front door and confronted my mom and told her everything. My Dad dropped her liked a hot potato.


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

I asked the POSOM in my case pretty much the exact question (via text):

"Well I guess mainly I needed some confirmation that you have given me. But I would like to know - did the severity and ramifications of what you were doing ever even cross your mind? I realize that these things happen with sickening regularity in our society......but I can't help but wonder...from the perspective of an affair partner, do you even acknowledge the harm your actions cause or have the potential to cause to someone else? Someone that never did anything wrong to you or ever invited that **** into their lives?"

I got crickets. I ended with:

"Well either you struggle with motor skill functions, or you've decided to decline my last question. I'll leave off now. You are a piece of crap for what you've done, but you're just a kid too, so there's still hope. A bit early in your life yet to be defined by it. Thanks for speaking up. As far as my wife is concerned, I'm not going to waste my time telling you to stay away from her. If she can't set those boundaries for herself and enforce them then it's on her. I don't even know at this point if I have it in me to try this again. We'll see where I am when things are clearer to me. Have a nice life and do yourself a favor and commit to not being a piece of ****. The world has plenty of them as it is."

I can only assume that the answer to the OP is: No, they just don't give a sh1t.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> I think my Dad's AP wanted a meal ticket and that's how she justified sleeping with a married man. She thought my Dad was well off because he owned his own business and lived in a nice suburb. She was a thirty-ish, single mom. We were really just your average middle class family. My Dad's business had its good years and bad. She was so confident that my Dad would leave my Mom, that she knocked on our front door and confronted my mom and told her everything. My Dad dropped her liked a hot potato.


Holy hell!!!

Ballsy but your dad deserved the embarrassment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Speaking from a male perspective, you can characterize the AP as a selfish SOB, but that's an over simplification. Everyone typically looks out for their self interest in most respects. From reading these post it seems most BH are more than willing for the "POSOM" to bear the brunt of the blame for the affair. Like it or not, here's my observation over 12+ years with numerous married female clients.
> 1. Without the risk of serious jail time, you cannot make a woman do anything she doesn't want to do.
> 2. Women who cheat have lost that loving feeling for her husband. The phrase they use, "ILYBINILWY" is typically repeated, after changing the "you" to "him", to the man they now choose to be with as "womanese" to justify the affair, (mostly to herself), but not divorcing her old man. The OM really doesn't give a crap why she's cheating. Out of the many unfaithful women I've known, I've yet to see one that wanted to stay married because they love and respected their husband.
> 3. Despite the claim by many BH that she just says she is mistreated, ignored, or abused, its often their perspective and oftentimes true. Just because the husband wants to believe all is well, men oftentimes ignore or reject what their wives are telling them via words or body language.
> ...


While I do not agree that many cheating women are neglected or abused( most are poor communicators and have expected clairvoyance), I do agree that it is incredibly foolish to marry any person thzt has any hiztory of infidelity.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Many of them are narcissists, and narcissists lack empathy. They know right from wrong, they just don't care. The best way to deal with a narcissist, is to not deal with one.


A great majority of WS probably are narcs. 
Narcs don't think like 'normal' decent human beings - the reason BS are stunned & mystified as to how WS could have had an A. 

- Main trait is lack of empathy. They do have 'feelings'. . i.e. they feel lots of sympathy for themselves which they use to justify the A. 
- They feel entitled which gives them another excuse for A. 
- Remorse isn't part of their vocabulary which may explain why there are so few truly remorseful WS on TAM.
- They are liars. "I love you" to BS one minute & off to see AP in the next. And all the rest of the lies needed in an A. Easy.
- Doing R with a narc. . . probably explains why R is so difficult and takes years. . . and also why false R is so common. 

Narcs seem to have all the traits needed to be able to have an A. 

As far as AP & blame. . . I don't know how blame might be apportioned.
WS & AP belong to 'Tribe Narc' so they both find an A easy to do. 
Neither of them care who gets stomped on, even if there are kids involved. 
When there are kids, they still manage to find the time to have an A, to get what THEY want. The hell with everyone else. 

If you think your WS is from Tribe Narc - run for the hills.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

The POSOM who is 21, I said something to the fact he was a turd. He responded back with something like "If you really cared about her - you would let <wayward> go.". My response "You f up little turd, if you cared about her - you wouldn't have help mess up her life. If you gave a crap, you wouldn't done things that would hurt her and endanger her life. Help cost her to lose rights to her baby and her family. You never would have been accepted as her boyfriend to her family, you are hated, always will be by them." I confirmed he saw the video of her breaking his "gift" to her at least.

BTW, yes IT was always on my WW to not break the boundaries - not the POSOM, but he was still a part of the problem and worked against not only MY interests - but that of my family unit and of course my wife. It was always about what he WANTED and it didn't matter who he hurt. He didn't care.

Hopefully I'll never see that POSOT ("T" = Turd, rather than [M]an) which is what I call him. "turd" to my therapist or my wayward. I like my last view of him seeing us leaving the court building with his sad & begging face for my wayward to look at him as we walked by - to legally get him out of our lives.

I don't like liars. I don't like being lied to.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@********** : But as we see as well as research, affairs can be had from healthy marriages. Being a narcissists is not a requirement. We've seen BS do revenge affairs... which in the end usually doesn't make them much better, but an understandable re-action.

The situation of today allows for more affairs to happen... but then again, people have been cheating since recorded history.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Now I'm curious. What do you believe are the other purposes for an affair?


Any number of reasons but primarily they are using affairs to transition out of a marriage that is not satisfying or they a lonely and feel ignored. You can draw a certain inference on this site because many BHs continue to deny there was a problem in their marriage. The title of this thread demonstrates how a betrayed wants to place the blame outside their own partnership. 
Few women get involved in affairs without giving it considerable thought and less likely to just fall into it. (unless they got hit on by Brad Pitt) A number of wayward wives who claim to love their husbands are really in love with being married. If you drill down, you see it.




BetrayedDad said:


> Please enlighten us to the complexities of the AP if saying they are selfish is oversimplified LOL.


Why does it matter if the OM is a selfish SOB if its your wife that's laying down with him? Yes, he's concerned with his own pleasure but that a little like blaming the profit hungry casino owners when some cat walks in and loses all his grocery money. It still goes that the wayward is responsible for the damage to their own marriage.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Someone once posted something like, what if the AP doesn't know the WS is married? Well, doesn't everyone have a responsibility to themselves, to know what they are getting into? Sure we all make mistakes. Even when it's a mistake, at some point, it becomes a decision. When is that?


My sis fell for a hell of a player years ago. He owned a business, and was able to hide money from his wife. He rented a f-pad and made it seem like it was where he lived. He then made up stories about traveling frequently, when it really was him spending time with his family. Then he'd tell his wife he was traveling when he was really nailing his latest conquest and spending the night with her. 

His wife got suspicious, found out about the place and all hell broke loose.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

metallicaluvr said:


> I get that, I asked this question because of my belief that there's no one in this world who is 100% evil.
> 
> Hell, even PRISONERS beat up child molesters. Why? Because they harmed a CHILD, god damn it!


I wouldn't paint most of them with particularly altruistic motives though. Prisons are loaded with men who've been molested, never dealt with it properly and blame many of their life's struggles on that molestation.

Beating on a molester is personal therapy. They can't beat on the one that hurt them, so then they transfer that anger to another and release the anger on them as a surrogate.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Any number of reasons but primarily they are using affairs to transition out of a marriage that is not satisfying or they a lonely and feel ignored. You can draw a certain inference on this site because many BHs continue to deny there was a problem in their marriage. The title of this thread demonstrates how a betrayed wants to place the blame outside their own partnership.
> Few women get involved in affairs without giving it considerable thought and less likely to just fall into it. (unless they got hit on by Brad Pitt) A number of wayward wives who claim to love their husbands are really in love with being married. If you drill down, you see it.


Your primary reason is something I believe I posted in this thread, though I fight my natural desire to believe that all women leaving a relationship will do that. I don't believe that is even possible. It's an absolute. It is, however, frightening to think that even most women would have an affair to get out of a relationship. 

It seems that very roughly correlates with another member's post which, paraphrasing, said that he believed women fall in and out of love with sex, or something like that. So, if she wants to fall in love with another man so she isn't lonely, all she needs do is have sex. 

I find that very difficult to believe, but entertain the idea for it's humor. Am I mistaken about it's comical value? Is it something that needs taken seriously?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> My sis fell for a hell of a player years ago. He owned a business, and was able to hide money from his wife. He rented a f-pad and made it seem like it was where he lived. He then made up stories about traveling frequently, when it really was him spending time with his family. Then he'd tell his wife he was traveling when he was really nailing his latest conquest and spending the night with her.
> 
> His wife got suspicious, found out about the place and all hell broke loose.


That's a very sad story. Seems she was completely duped and never caught on. 

As David Hannum likely said in criticism of P.T. Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute." 

Though, knowing you, if she is half as intelligent, she must have been in denial to never even have seen one red flag. 

I do think it would be easy to fool a one night stand.

By the way, I don't think AP's are completely at fault, just 50%. It takes two to tango. One has a responsibility to their vows, their word, their character, their dignity(or to make it simpler, themselves), their family, their spouse, their children, etc., while the other only has a responsibility to themselves, their family's pride...well, maybe I'm talking myself right into believing the AP has almost as much responsibility as the WS? 

Meh, 50 - 50 sounds pretty good.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

APs don't really care, so there's nothing for them to rationalize.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> APs don't really care, so there's nothing for them to rationalize.


 now that it's my thread, I don't have to care about threadjacking.

Gus, you're cool because of your similar taste in music with me, but is that guy in your profile pic you? because: 1) he looks really funny and 2)he needs to lose some serious weight.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I fight my natural desire to believe that all women leaving a relationship will do that. I don't believe that is even possible. It's an absolute. It is, however, frightening to think that even most women would have an affair to get out of a relationship.


The ones that do, and there are many, just don't want to jump out of the marriage into cold reality of having no one there for them. Its human nature. People don like to give anything up until they have a suitable replacement acquired. Most folks don't sell their houses, cars, etc., until they've bought another.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> By the way, I don't think AP's are completely at fault, just 50%. It takes two to tango. One has a responsibility to their vows, their word, their character, their dignity(or to make it simpler, themselves), their family, their spouse, their children, etc., while the other only has a responsibility to themselves, their family's pride...well, maybe I'm talking myself right into believing the AP has almost as much responsibility as the WS?
> 
> Meh, 50 - 50 sounds pretty good.


I understand most want to distribute the responsibility, I think those betrayed that want to save the marriage find a certain amount of solace in the wayward only assigned half the blame. But to me is like robbing a bank. If two people do it they don't half the sentence they would if a single robber did it. Besides, how does it work if the WS was involved with two or three AP over a span of time? Is it distributed a third or a fourth to each?
In my mind, the cheating spouse is 100% responsible for their decision to cheat. They deserve all the credit if they reject the advance.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I understand most want to distribute the responsibility, I think those betrayed that want to save the marriage find a certain amount of solace in the wayward only assigned half the blame. But to me is like robbing a bank. If two people do it they don't half the sentence they would if a single robber did it. Besides, how does it work if the WS was involved with two or three AP over a span of time? Is it distributed a third or a fourth to each?
> In my mind, the cheating spouse is 100% responsible for their decision to cheat. They deserve all the credit if they reject the advance.


Interesting theory.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> The ones that do, and there are many, just don't want to jump out of the marriage into cold reality of having no one there for them. Its human nature. People don like to give anything up until they have a suitable replacement acquired. Most folks don't sell their houses, cars, etc., until they've bought another.


Never thought of my exwife as property.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> APs don't really care, so there's nothing for them to rationalize.


They will care when the POed hubby is standing over them with a blade and they are fixing to be made a steer. Which is only fitting, if they knew the woman was married.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

You know, guys; as stupid as it sounds, to me it'd hurt less to be betrayed by a wife who screws around with multiple men rather than just one. Of course, I'd divorce either way because of that whole "another man has seen my wife naked and ****ed her" male ego stuff, but it's atleast soothing to know that she wasn't faithful to any of the AP's nor was she to her husband.

By this, I mean that sometimes when a WW is having a "monogamous" affair, she'll stop sleeping with her husband because it feels dirty to do so after being ****ed by her boyfriend a couple of hours earlier or some other nonsense like that, which to me feels like she's being "faithful" to the AP, and man that hurts so damn bad.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Is SG on TAM?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No he isnt lol. Apparentky SI was the only forum he liked. Idk what made him say that, because for every guy there who "wishes he did what SG had done", i.e. serve divorce papers then get on a plane and go golfing in Florida like a freaking BOSS there are many who find him "weak" for not tolerating the immense amount of disrespect his wife showed him and reconciling like a miserable sap.

When I was on SI, there were times I'd read what these coward BH's would say and want to reach out through their computer screen and kick their nonexistant nuts, my GOD.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I don't think AP's really rationalize much, except when they are a relative or friend of the BS. I feel like its easier for them disassociate themselves from the cheating spouses family if they have never met them. Even more so because most cheating spouses either never talk about their home life, or paint a bleak picture when they do, so in many cases the AP actually justifies it by telling themselves it was a dead marriage. I guess what I'm saying is, its the WS that does all the rationalizing, not the AP.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

metallicaluvr said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > Is SG on TAM?
> ...


Man! Tell me! I said something once about TAM and mods got pissed off. I did not know a WW was at the basis of SI. Makes sense why they push reconciliation and coddle WW in general. Most likely why I got banned from there, I guess....don't know.

I have been a parole officer for 16 yrs and supervise sex offenders. I had made a comment how cheaters are like sex offenders because they can not control their sexual urges and cause great emotional pain and duress to others because of the lack of control.

3 days later I was reading on the two posts that some were cross posting on from SI/TAM and all of a sudden I could not even pull up SI from my phone. I either pissed off the waywards or they thought I cross posted because I had same name on TAM.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> The ones that do, and there are many, just don't want to jump out of the marriage into cold reality of having no one there for them. Its human nature. People don like to give anything up until they have a suitable replacement acquired. Most folks don't sell their houses, cars, etc., until they've bought another.


I would theorize that for both men and women, such behavior is higher among HD folks because they don't want to quick getting sex from their spouse until they have a new candidate lined up. 

Among women, financial security is a big deal for many. Walk away wives are a familiar phenomenon. They'll not leave until they have a plan executed if they would be left in a far worse financial situation.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

metallicaluvr said:


> but man, does it not occur to them that they are destroying those children's lives? even if the affair is never discovered, obviously the marriage will deteriorate even further as a result of one spouse being in love with someone outside of the marriage.


The few OM's I've talked to or read their stories, they just don't even think the way you do.

1) If the woman is giving it up, they figure they may as well be the one to get the benefit. If not them, some other guy is going to bang her. So they choose to bang her.

2) It is the woman's choice, and all the responsibility falls on her. The OM made no promises to anybody not to f her. Whatever bad comes from this to her family is all on her, not on the OM.

3) They don't even think in terms of a marriage deteriorating due to her being distracted, etc. OMs don't think that deeply, not even about their own marriages/relationships.

4) If the affair is discovered, they know they will pretty much skate from any responsibility. In fact, within their circles it can even be a status increase to be known as a man who f's married women.

5) A big part of the thrill for the OM is getting one over on the BH. Even if BH doesn't know about the affair (and maybe especially if he doesn't know), the OM feels a surge of superiority and dominance over the BH. The serial OM may value this aspect almost as much as he values the sex.

These aren't my values or thought processes, but it is how some OMs think. Other OMs who perhaps are married and thinking the affair is real love may be as much in the fog as the WW. In that case they simply don't think they'll ever get caught, and thus they don't believe any damage is being done.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

I truly do not understand why anyone is trying to rationalize or explain what AP's thinkk during an affair.

There would be no affair to talk about if the WW or WH was not screwing someone other than their spouse. It's difficult enough to try to sort that out.

Sounds similar to when the recently betrayed vent and fume at AP. 

AP did not take vows to you.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Thor said:


> The few OM's I've talked to or read their stories, they just don't even think the way you do.
> 
> 1) If the woman is giving it up, they figure they may as well be the one to get the benefit. If not them, some other guy is going to bang her. So they choose to bang her.
> 
> ...


That was truly disturbing to read, especially the part about establishing dominance. That's why I wonder how anyone can reconcile without atleast divorcing first .


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> I truly do not understand why anyone is trying to rationalize or explain what AP's thinkk during an affair.
> 
> There would be no affair to talk about if the WW or WH was not screwing someone other than their spouse. It's difficult enough to try to sort that out.
> 
> ...


Actually, now that I think about it, I really had those APs like NP5's and Walloped from SI's wives in mind, who were begging them to leave their husbands.

Okay, so you want to be a stepdad to their 5 children, huh? and even if you DO, do you have a golden d!ck or something that you want to make this woman take her kids away from their perfectly healthy, very much alive father? Narcs, selfish, whatever you want to call it. Ugh.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Speaking of "golden ****s"...my old ladies AP's always came up short!

At the end of the day a punk is going to get a married chick cuz she is neglected and some tramp is going to tell the wife to take it up with the wayward husband when confronted.

My point is the POS that bang married spouses think its the betrayed's problem for not meeting a need.

The reality is one can be a perfect spouse and they still get screwed over by their wayward.

Granted my experience comes from folks that just want to phuck for the night but ya there is the other side of the coin were
a strong relationship comes out of the affair....like the affair that last a long time with just one AP. Either way the AP is going to brush it off on the betrayed to rationalize the destruction of another family unit.

Often what the AP fails to rationalize is the fact that they put their own family at risk...hence why exposure is most important and why we see AP throw the wayward under the bus to save their own M and even get offended when the betrayed threatens to confront the OMW/OWH.

Now think about that....how phucked up is (AP) to go screw someones spouse think the betrayed should have been around to meet the waywards need and none of this would have happened...but when shyt hits the fan and that same AP get expose by this betrayed spouse then it's a different story.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The more in love the spouses are, the greater the challenge for some APs. They love to know they had what was thought to be locked up for only the husband. And, it's important to realize, women choose men, as has been stated. How much more does that boost the confidence of the AP. 

It's obvious to me, the AP doesn't have much confidence, or he'd be finding someone who is compatible and dedicating his life, with her, to a marriage. In many cases, that just doesn't happen. If they are used for escape from feelings of love that the WS has, who is using who? The husband already knows he is in trouble in the relationship, even if he doesn't want to admit it. 

The AP gets nothing, usually, but a sobbing mess of a woman who needs catered to, rather than the strong woman the BS married. What is given is done out of desperation in many instances, rather than love. Love chemicals come into play, but obviously are only bonding two who aren't usually compatible. Look at the number of successful versus unsuccessful long term relationships that spring out of affairs.

I've often wondered if she doesn't do all the wild sex things because she can't get the BS out of her mind and must degrade herself even further with the AP to feel like she is justified in tearing apart her family and/or marriage. 

What most APs in this thread are saying is that he is a dupe who can't get a good woman to stay with him, because she's too smart for his tricks.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AP rationalizing/concerned for Family? Any thoughts in that direction went bye-bye when the panties hit the floor.

Seriously... family matters are the last thing Cheaters want to deal with.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

metallicaluvr said:


> now that it's my thread, I don't have to care about threadjacking.
> 
> Gus, you're cool because of your similar taste in music with me, but is that guy in your profile pic you? because: 1) he looks really funny and 2)he needs to lose some serious weight.


LOL.

I'll answer, but first I'd like to ask you a couple of questions...

1. How old are you?

2. Have you never seen "Home Alone"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

metallicaluvr said:


> That was truly disturbing to read, especially the part about establishing dominance. That's why I wonder how anyone can reconcile without atleast divorcing first .


Somewhere on this forum is a post by one of those serial OMs. It gets far more disturbing than what I posted. Things like telling the woman he had a vasectomy so they would have unprotected sex. If she gets pregnant he denies it could be his, and anyhow the poor schlub husband is going to get stuck with the kid anyway. Stuff like that.

These predatory OMs really are low life dirtbags. Too bad modern sensibilities and legal systems don't allow for justice.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Thor said:


> Somewhere on this forum is a post by one of those serial OMs. It gets far more disturbing than what I posted. Things like telling the woman he had a vasectomy so they would have unprotected sex. If she gets pregnant he denies it could be his, and anyhow the poor schlub husband is going to get stuck with the kid anyway. Stuff like that.
> 
> These predatory OMs really are low life dirtbags. Too bad modern sensibilities and legal systems don't allow for justice.


I've read that post a few times in different threads. It is indeed as disturbing as you say. But I have always questioned if its real or not. I say this because I've known a lot of men that serially cheat on their wives. I wouldn't say that any of them specifically target married women, or put much effort into trying to turn a good woman bad. A few I know have slept with married women, but it didn't take much convincing on their part.

These guys aren't players or pick up artists. If we're talking serial cheaters. They're bottom feeders that really only care about one thing, and they don't want to put in a whole lot of effort to get it.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Intellectually, I get that it was my ex-husband who broke his vows to me, not the OW, and it is he who should have 100% of the blame and my wrath. I once told my own mother the same thing, when she finally told me the real reason my Dad left her when I was four years old and my brothers were 9 and 10 - for another woman - and how when she discovered her in his apartment about a month after he moved out, she snapped and nearly beat her to death with her white wicker purse.

But here's the thing. This OW rushed him into separating from me, divorcing me, and moving her in with him - he has since told me she gave him an ultimatum in each case. We were married for 25 years and had a 13-year-old son (who's now 14) at the time they started their affair. He's since told me that he didn't lie to her and tell her we were already separated or divorced or that the marriage was dead - she knew we still lived together and had a decent relationship. When I told my now ex last year that I didn't want our son to be exposed to such a person, he said "She'll be on her best behavior with him - she's a mother, too, and to her, the children come first."

No. I'm pretty sure she does. Figuratively and literally.

Can you really blame me for hating this woman with the fire of a thousand suns?

I do blame my ex the most. But it's like the statement "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." The guns help, don't they? Without another person ready and willing to help a WS betray his or her spouse, there would be no betrayal.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Thor said:


> 4) If the affair is discovered, they know they will pretty much skate from any responsibility. In fact, within their circles it can even be a status increase to be known as a man who f's married women.
> 
> 5) A big part of the thrill for the OM is getting one over on the BH. Even if BH doesn't know about the affair (and maybe especially if he doesn't know), the OM feels a surge of superiority and dominance over the BH. The serial OM may value this aspect almost as much as he values the sex.


The OM in my situation was very much this way, it was all about the power trip and dominance of taking someone's wife. In his head he was "more manly" than anyone and stealing a wife proved it. He reveled in the self induced ego trip of holding that over some guys head much more than the sex he got. 

He also had this twisted justification that all women are evil and liars and he shows men just how terrible women are by doing this. He didn't help blow up a family, he exposed the evil heartless women for there true selves or some such nonensense. 

He knows at the end he will face no responsibility, he may get beat up, it's happened before and will again but he doesn't care. He is known for what he is in this town and his bad reputation seems to bring him more conquests. He always has one or more married women going on.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL.
> 
> I'll answer, but first I'd like to ask you a couple of questions...
> 
> ...


1) I'm 18, like the Hangar. Did you get the reference? And 2) Yeah, but never all the way through.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

honcho said:


> The OM in my situation was very much this way, it was all about the power trip and dominance of taking someone's wife. In his head he was "more manly" than anyone and stealing a wife proved it. He reveled in the self induced ego trip of holding that over some guys head much more than the sex he got.
> 
> He also had this twisted justification that all women are evil and liars and he shows men just how terrible women are by doing this. He didn't help blow up a family, he exposed the evil heartless women for there true selves or some such nonensense.
> 
> He knows at the end he will face no responsibility, he may get beat up, it's happened before and will again but he doesn't care. He is known for what he is in this town and his bad reputation seems to bring him more conquests. He always has one or more married women going on.


Dude, please tell me you atleast divorced your wife before reconciling with her?

To me, even an EA would be a dealbreaker but man, once she gives her body to him, the wedding vows are down the drain, the marriage is dead and she has no right to call herself a wife.

You know what REALLY pisses me off? When these cheaters, after getting caught, say, "I had no intention of leaving my spouse." oh, really? And where the **** did you come up with the logic that falling in love with someone else and giving yourself to them did not equate to leaving your spouse?!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL.
> 
> I'll answer, but first I'd like to ask you a couple of questions...
> 
> ...


This is the only Macaulay Culkin my kids have known:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WhyMe66 said:


> I don't get it either, I am dealing with it right now. With a coworker she used to hate, no less!!!


With a co-worker she *said* she used to hate, surely?:scratchhead:


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Any number of reasons but primarily they are using affairs to transition out of a marriage that is not satisfying or they a lonely and feel ignored. You can draw a certain inference on this site because many BHs continue to deny there was a problem in their marriage. The title of this thread demonstrates how a betrayed wants to place the blame outside their own partnership.
> Few women get involved in affairs without giving it considerable thought and less likely to just fall into it. (unless they got hit on by Brad Pitt) A number of wayward wives who claim to love their husbands are really in love with being married. If you drill down, you see it.
> 
> 
> ...


IMO, you are correct that many cheating women are dissatisfied in their marriages.
However, itt also appears to me that these women have been socialized to not take responsibility for their own happiness and have unrealistic expectations of what tbeir spouse can do for them in that regard.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Thor said:


> Somewhere on this forum is a post by one of those serial OMs. It gets far more disturbing than what I posted. Things like telling the woman he had a vasectomy so they would have unprotected sex. If she gets pregnant he denies it could be his, and anyhow the poor schlub husband is going to get stuck with the kid anyway. Stuff like that.
> 
> These predatory OMs really are low life dirtbags. Too bad modern sensibilities and legal systems don't allow for justice.


Just imagine, a woman blaming her husband for her unhappiness.

Who would have thunk it?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

metallicaluvr said:


> Dude, please tell me you atleast divorced your wife before reconciling with her?
> 
> To me, even an EA would be a dealbreaker but man, once she gives her body to him, the wedding vows are down the drain, the marriage is dead and she has no right to call herself a wife.
> 
> You know what REALLY pisses me off? When these cheaters, after getting caught, say, "I had no intention of leaving my spouse." oh, really? And where the **** did you come up with the logic that falling in love with someone else and giving yourself to them did not equate to leaving your spouse?!


This is a a fantastic question.

You do realize that the television, radio, music videos, and every aspect of our current popular culture encourages this behavior.

But, it's even worse than that.

If someone was to ask you what are the chief components of male vice, we'd all know the answer. Sex and violence.

Guys that can't keep it zipped up. Fighting instead of talking and communicating, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I have a direct question for you.

What are the chief components of female vice?

If you were to listen to our popular culture, women are blameless and have no issues. It's just men that screw it up.

Do you believe that?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

metallicaluvr said:


> Yeah, why be an accessory to destroying a family though? YKWIM? if the WS is the gun, why be the bullet?
> 
> You can do two things when a hot married woman wants to **** you: 1) **** her or 2) try to drive some sense into her head.


There is a 3rd option. Just don't interact with her.

trying to drive sense into someone's head often leads to an affair. It's not the potential OM's responsibility to interfere in the marriage of the potential female affair partner... the more person their conversations are about her marriage, the more likely a bond will build and it will become an EA that turns into a PA.

#2 is a really bad idea.

Just tell her "I'm not interested in being partner to destroying your marriage. Leave me alone." 

End of interaction.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The White Knight has just woken up to the fact that the damsel in distress he thought he was rescuing from an evil ogre was actually a married women with three children.

And once the White Knight got to meet him, he found out that the ogre was her husband and a really nice chap.

And the White Knight thought :wtf:

But by then, it was all too damn late.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> This is a a fantastic question.
> 
> You do realize that the television, radio, music videos, and every aspect of our current popular culture encourages this behavior.
> 
> ...


No dude, that's some hogwash that websites like MarriageBuilders come up with. The owner of that site, whatever his ****ing name is, shared a letter where this guy talked about how his wife one day walks up to him, tells him his two-year-old daughter is actually a product of an affair she had, and walked away. And he was advised to reconcile because she "went NC with the AP." DUDE! I'd like to see him raise another man's love child just because his wife doesn't talk to the father anymore...

Anyway, my point is that I don't discriminate between genders for anything. A WH is no better or worse than a WW to me, and on a side-note, as I like 80's and 90's metal bands, I was once yelled at by my principal for having long hair. It is my biggest regret that I didn't point at a random girl and say, "why does she get to have long hair and not me? because I'm a boy? who says boys can't have long hair? Is it written somewhere in a book?" grr...


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

metallicaluvr said:


> No dude, that's some hogwash that websites like MarriageBuilders come up with. The owner of that site, whatever his ****ing name is, shared a letter where this guy talked about how his wife one day walks up to him, tells him his two-year-old daughter is actually a product of an affair she had, and walked away. And he was advised to reconcile because she "went NC with the AP." DUDE! I'd like to see him raise another man's love child just because his wife doesn't talk to the father anymore...
> 
> Anyway, my point is that I don't discriminate between genders for anything. A WH is no better or worse than a WW to me, and on a side-note, as I like 80's and 90's metal bands, I was once yelled at by my principal for having long hair. It is my biggest regret that I didn't point at a random girl and say, "why does she get to have long hair and not me? because I'm a boy? who says boys can't have long hair? Is it written somewhere in a book?" grr...


If you read any of Willard Harley's stuff, it becomes apparent that the man is a sexist dinosaur. He has a tremendous double standard re the genders and his advice is slanted against males.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Maxo said:


> If you read any of Willard Harley's stuff, it becomes apparent that the man is a sexist dinosaur. He has a tremendous double standard re the genders and his advice is slanted against males.


Which is why I discount everything he writes as bullsh1t.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

VeryHurt said:


> Metal ~
> 
> Your question has been an unanswered one since the beginning of time and there are a boatload of people here on TAM who wish they had the answer.
> 
> ...


I knew a young woman who loved to date married men. She was in her mid 20's and preferred older married men. She quite analytical about it, It just suited her needs better. She liked them because they weren't overly needy or clingy, they often had money and would treat her nice. She believed his fidelity was on him, not her. Go figure, she's divorced after cheating on her husband.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Maxo said:


> If you read any of Willard Harley's stuff, it becomes apparent that the man is a sexist dinosaur. He has a tremendous double standard re the genders and his advice is slanted against males.


He's actually a brilliant guy.

But, like most people, he has areas where he's a bit shortsighted.

If you read his thoughts on "love busting", he's on it.

Emotional outbursts, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty, selfish demands...

All - completely spot on.

If I were to critique him, he includes "annoying habits" in his list.

Well, who is to "judge" what's an annoying habit?

Countless numbers of men attempt to "change" those annoying habits, only to find that the goalposts move.

Harley is mute on this very typical and harmful problem.

"We're not connected, but we 'would be' if only YOU would change this annoying habit"

So, one changes that "annoying habit" only to find there is now "another reason" why we're not "connected"


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> He's actually a brilliant guy.
> 
> But, like most people, he has areas where he's a bit shortsighted.
> 
> ...


We will have to disagree on his lntellect. But, there is little doubt that he is biased against men,IMO.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Maxo said:


> We will have to disagree on his lntellect. But, there is little doubt that he is biased against men,IMO.


I'm sure it helps his sales.

Telling the truth about female vice in today's culture isn't a smart economic move.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> I'm sure it helps his sales.
> 
> Telling the truth about female vice in today's culture isn't a smart economic move.


Basically, Harley advises a betrayed spouse to engage in the " Pick Me Dance" as described on Chump Lady.
Who in his or her right mind is going to "Make the marriage the best option" ,with this insane "Plan A" strategy. One has to be a complete doormat to do this.
And,he has this crazy notion that the affair should never be talked about after full discclosure and that husbands should never expect an apology. This is rugsweeping at its finest.
Then, he suggest that betrayed husbands engage in this "Pick me dance" for 4 times as long as betrayed wives. He insults women by suggesting they have less endurance for this, and he insults men by suggesting that they have less value and should suffer longer than women.

He says you can never spend even one night apart from your spouse. That is nuts. The guy is a fruitcake.
Ever hear his radio show. He is dim witted.
And,he allows some crazed woman named " Melody Lane" to dominate his forum and castigate anyone who takes issue with anything her idol( and she is a major groupie) says.
And this woman is dumber than a brick. Yet, he never reins her in.
Brilliant? The guy is an imbecile,IMO.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Maxo said:


> IMO, you are correct that many cheating women are dissatisfied in their marriages.
> However, itt also appears to me that these women have been socialized to not take responsibility for their own happiness and have unrealistic expectations of what tbeir spouse can do for them in that regard.


I don't know how prevalent it is, but it certainly felt that way to me. Near the end, I remember so many conversations that went like:

Her: "I want to be happy, but you're not helping."
Me: "OK, well, how should I help? What goal are you looking at? New job? Volunteer work? Hobby? What sort of project do you want to tackle that you think will bring meaning? We have resources.. pick away, and I'll do what I can to support it."
Her: "Why are you pushing it off on me?"
Me: "I want to help, but I can't, y'know, just CREATE meaning for you. It has to come from yourself. Once you choose a path, I can help, though!"
Her: "You don't understand."
Me: "Guess not.."


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

truster said:


> I don't know how prevalent it is, but it certainly felt that way to me. Near the end, I remember so many conversations that went like:
> 
> Her: "I want to be happy, but you're not helping."
> Me: "OK, well, how should I help? What goal are you looking at? New job? Volunteer work? Hobby? What sort of project do you want to tackle that you think will bring meaning? We have resources.. pick away, and I'll do what I can to support it."
> ...


How incredibly frustrating.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

truster said:


> I don't know how prevalent it is, but it certainly felt that way to me. Near the end, I remember so many conversations that went like:
> 
> Her: "I want to be happy, but you're not helping."
> Me: "OK, well, how should I help? What goal are you looking at? New job? Volunteer work? Hobby? What sort of project do you want to tackle that you think will bring meaning? We have resources.. pick away, and I'll do what I can to support it."
> ...


I told my crazy ex more than once I felt like a circus act trying to entertain and make her happy. Every suggest you made, I made and I usually got 50 excuses why she couldn't.....


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> I've read that post a few times in different threads. It is indeed as disturbing as you say. But I have always questioned if its real or not. I say this because I've known a lot of men that serially cheat on their wives. I wouldn't say that any of them specifically target married women, or put much effort into trying to turn a good woman bad. A few I know have slept with married women, but it didn't take much convincing on their part.
> 
> These guys aren't players or pick up artists. If we're talking serial cheaters. They're bottom feeders that really only care about one thing, and they don't want to put in a whole lot of effort to get it.


I am referring to serial OMs, who may be married but probably are usually single. They prey on married women.

My wife's ex-bf assclown is one such predator. He specifically targets married women. He is now divorced. He was a predator before he was married, and he is a predator now he is divorced. I presume he targeted married women while he was married, too.

The married guy who likes to screw other women whether or not they are married is a different kind of cheater than the type I was referring to.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

I do not know if predator accurately describes these people. After all,their " prey" are willing participants,equally motivated to engage,unlike true prey.
They are *******s,no doubt. But,IMO, not predators.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> I knew a young woman who loved to date married men. She was in her mid 20's and preferred older married men. She quite analytical about it, It just suited her needs better. She liked them because they weren't overly needy or clingy, they often had money and would treat her nice. She believed his fidelity was on him, not her. Go figure, she's divorced after cheating on her husband.


Who could have predicted that outcome?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

truster said:


> I don't know how prevalent it is, but it certainly felt that way to me. Near the end, I remember so many conversations that went like:
> 
> Her: "I want to be happy, but you're not helping."
> Me: "OK, well, how should I help? What goal are you looking at? New job? Volunteer work? Hobby? What sort of project do you want to tackle that you think will bring meaning? We have resources.. pick away, and I'll do what I can to support it."
> ...


I've often said, "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do"

This illustrates why.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

truster said:


> Her: "I want to be happy, but you're not helping."
> Me: "OK, well, how should I help? What goal are you looking at? New job? Volunteer work? Hobby? What sort of project do you want to tackle that you think will bring meaning? We have resources.. pick away, and I'll do what I can to support it."
> Her: "Why are you pushing it off on me?"
> Me: "I want to help, but I can't, y'know, just CREATE meaning for you. It has to come from yourself. Once you choose a path, I can help, though!"
> ...





ReturntoZero said:


> I've often said, "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do"
> 
> This illustrates why.


Its aggravating not as perplexing as it appears. Its "womanese" for giving you an assignment you cannot possible accomplish because failure will prove she's right about you. You have to remember that a woman's actions come after the blueprint is well thought out. (including the supposedly impulsive ONS. The partner may be random, but she has already fabricated such a liaison in her mind.)


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> Its aggravating not as perplexing as it appears. Its "womanese" for giving you an assignment you cannot possible accomplish because failure will prove she's right about you. You have to remember that a woman's actions come after the blueprint is well thought out. (including the supposedly impulsive ONS. The partner may be random, but she has already fabricated such a liaison in her mind.)


Yes sir.

Females are experts at this type of low-level conflict and conspiracy.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> he said "She'll be on her best behavior with him - she's a mother, too, and to her, the children come first."
> 
> No. I'm pretty sure she does. Figuratively and literally.
> 
> ...


 Your ex's GF is a low-life human being. Mother or not.

Our SO's should have our backs. But AP are still part of the equation. Some are serial players (who are single). Breaking up a family to be with someone else is always the chicken-poop "easy way" out. And to be actively breaking up a family - makes that person a selfish turd.

BTW, some AP may not be aware they are in an affair. That does happen.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Maxo said:


> I do not know if predator accurately describes these people. After all,their " prey" are willing participants,equally motivated to engage,unlike true prey.
> They are *******s,no doubt. But,IMO, not predators.


Many Co-worker affairs are accidents, weak human nature. But yes, there are sexual predators that do bad things (rape/molesters) and there are player predators who go fishing... to get laid. Some will stick to single women, some won't care what kind of of women and others want to target married ones.

Sorry, but women are easily played (and us guys, in different ways). Its a matter of the right key at the right time.


PS: Iv'e read that post by a AP predator. It was sickening.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Many Co-worker affairs are accidents, weak human nature. But yes, there are sexual predators that do bad things (rape/molesters) and there are player predators who go fishing... to get laid. Some will stick to single women, some won't care what kind of of women and others want to target married ones.
> 
> Sorry, but women are easily played (and us guys, in different ways). Its a matter of the right key at the right time.
> 
> ...


I've always said that I don't understand how the hell people manage to get into relationships at their place of work, let alone extramarital affairs lol. Why can't they just do their job and go home?

I just got out of high school and I tell ya, all I did every day was talk to people of both sexes, sleep through lectures and go home. I have no idea how other guys just as good-looking and intelligent as I am managed to date half the school in the same time-frame...

P.s. how does one get into an affair by, in your words, "accident"?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

By interacting with people. How do YOU make friends metallicaluvr?

I meet my future wife, we started talking, we danced, we kissed, we had sex, etc, etc.

Are you aware how medication, alcohol, drugs and experiences can effect a person? People you meet or know, somehow you like some better than others, right?

So working long hours with a co-worker, then spending innocent time after work or whatever can develop into an EA then an AP.

I'm not going to reply with a lot more, but read the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass

There are lots of articles on the web about how affairs start and books at the library. I don't have any handy at this moment. But here is a start: http://www.yoursocialworker.com/s-articles/no-affair.htm

Starting a FRIEND relationship at work is how it starts. 85% of todays affairs are from work. Even many legit relationships happen at the place of work.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I managed to meet my real father recently. I won't go into the details of it all, but I got to talk to him, and asked him similar questions. 

He told me that he didn't feel responsible because he isn't married. The married person messing around is responsible. 
When I pointed out he didn't have to have sex with married people, he said something along the lines of: if a married person wants to have an affair, they're going to have one. And if they're going to have sex, might as well be with him than with someone else. 


Then when I brought up pregnancy and affairs, and myself, he just laughed and said he won the lottery. 
He just had to squirt me out, and some other sucker had to pay and raise me. 
And again, said it wasn't his fault. If a married person wants to cheat and be irresponsible, he can't stop them. Might as well be sure you're the one having sex. 

I loathe having that man as my father.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Wow, what a low-life scum of the earth. Be thankful he didn't bring you up.

It should be easy for you to be a better MAN than he'll ever be.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> I managed to meet my real father recently. I won't go into the details of it all, but I got to talk to him, and asked him similar questions.
> 
> He told me that he didn't feel responsible because he isn't married. The married person messing around is responsible.
> When I pointed out he didn't have to have sex with married people, he said something along the lines of: if a married person wants to have an affair, they're going to have one. And if they're going to have sex, might as well be with him than with someone else.
> ...


Just when I thought I had seen it all.

Damn, 20. 

I'd be up on charges for assault and battery with intent to kill if I were in your shoes. I really would.

Good God, I feel so bad for you, but don't let that POS define you. You're better than that. I think I can speak for everyone here on that one.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> They just don't care about anyone other than themselves.
> 
> Don't overcomplicate it. Many people are just straight up heartless.
> 
> APs are just the tool. The WS's are the home wreckers. Accept that.


One of my favorite quotes is from the novel _The Killer Angels_ by Michael Shaara.

"There are a lot of men no more useful than a dead dog."

This is forever how I will view a 'man' who is willing to slink around with other men's wives and destroy their M's and the children's families.

And the same is equally true for OW....no gender distinctions with this crapfest called infidelity.

And I also agree....the WS is equally disgusting.

Those who engage in A's are easily among the most despicable of human beings.

Marriage may have major issues and be bad.....but NOTHING excuses becoming a traitor....or the willing accomplice of a traitor.

Horrible people all around.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Many Co-worker affairs are accidents, weak human nature. But yes, there are sexual predators that do bad things (rape/molesters) and there are player predators who go fishing... to get laid. Some will stick to single women, some won't care what kind of of women and others want to target married ones.
> 
> Sorry, but women are easily played (and us guys, in different ways). Its a matter of the right key at the right time.
> 
> ...


No,they are never accidents and women with integrity are not easily played.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

TaDor said:


> By interacting with people. How do YOU make friends metallicaluvr?
> 
> I meet my future wife, we started talking, we danced, we kissed, we had sex, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


That may be true,but to characterize work place affairs as accidents is absurd.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think most of the AP's have the attitude Kivlor mentioned.

"I'm not cheating, they are.".....they do not know the BS or the family so could care less.

This view is all bullsh*t IMO though.

We live in a society based on the Social Contract theory.

In a state of nature, it is every person for themselves and watch your own back. But, in a civil society, I DO owe other people the duty of not injuring them if they have done nothing to me first.

This, "I owe them nothing" attitude can be used to explain away a lot of crappy behavior.....for example, you mean nothing to me, so why wouldn't I rob you or steal your property?

The major feeling of injustice as far as infidelity is concerned is that society has totally abandoned the concept of justice for the person who has been wronged.

If you steal from me....you will be held accountable for it if caught.

You f*ck my W.....nothing.

And its far worse in recent decades.....used to be that at least a BS could go administer some 'justice' or payback of their own....even if society would do nothing about it.

Now....POSOM's go running to the cops begging for protection the instant a BH comes looking for them.

Ironically, they want the protections of the Social Contract from the same person they just screwed over, and who the system denies any justice for.

It's a pretty sh*tty situation IMO.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

TaDor said:


> By interacting with people. How do YOU make friends metallicaluvr?
> 
> I meet my future wife, we started talking, we danced, we kissed, we had sex, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Yeah, my mom told me the same thing: you work long hours with someone of the opposite sex, you end up developing feelings for them. Hmm, I wonder if I'll get into any relationships at work before I get married... 

And yeah, thanks. i'll check the books out.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Broken at 20 said:


> I managed to meet my real father recently. I won't go into the details of it all, but I got to talk to him, and asked him similar questions.
> 
> He told me that he didn't feel responsible because he isn't married. The married person messing around is responsible.
> When I pointed out he didn't have to have sex with married people, he said something along the lines of: if a married person wants to have an affair, they're going to have one. And if they're going to have sex, might as well be with him than with someone else.
> ...


If I were you, I'd have chopped his **** off right then and there.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

metallicaluvr said:


> If I were you, I'd have chopped his **** off right then and there.


Yep....that man is a completely useless excuse for a human being.

There are some people that, if they suddenly dropped dead, the world would be a much better place.

He sounds like one of them.

Broken at 20,

The fact that you are a decent person (which of course has ZERO to do with his input other than being a sperm donor) might be the only positive thing that disgusting man may ever leave behind him once he shuffles off this rock.

Like metal,

I too would have probably smashed him in his mouth when he laughed about having another man raise his kid......

probably wouldn't have been worth the price, but da*n would I have felt better for a moment.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Broken at 20 said:


> I managed to meet my real father recently. I won't go into the details of it all, but I got to talk to him, and asked him similar questions.
> 
> He told me that he didn't feel responsible because he isn't married. The married person messing around is responsible.
> When I pointed out he didn't have to have sex with married people, he said something along the lines of: if a married person wants to have an affair, they're going to have one. And if they're going to have sex, might as well be with him than with someone else.
> ...


I'm so sorry. That must have been devastating. My niece had a similar situation. She just views her biological father as a sperm donor. It sounds like you won the lottery, as you avoided inheriting any of his terrible narcissism and selfishness and weren't raised by this waste of space.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

OP I gotta say I agree with a lot of the posters that many APs probably don't think about it at all if they don't know the BS. One of my exH's ladies turned out to be an old college buddy who he had once been in love with. When they started seeing each other they tried to "help me out" by having her try and be my friend. While they were banging each other. I saw through her personality and avoided her as much as possible. For some reason I had always disliked her, but tried to get along with her as I knew exH was her friend. Pity I didn't see that they were together earlier. I never confronted her really. But I would bet that she would come up with all sorts of rationales why it was ok. I think at one point they went to church together.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> OP I gotta say I agree with a lot of the posters that many APs probably don't think about it at all if they don't know the BS. One of my exH's ladies turned out to be an old college buddy who he had once been in love with. When they started seeing each other they tried to "help me out" by having her try and be my friend. While they were banging each other. I saw through her personality and avoided her as much as possible. For some reason I had always disliked her, but tried to get along with her as I knew exH was her friend. Pity I didn't see that they were together earlier. I never confronted her really. But I would bet that she would come up with all sorts of rationales why it was ok. I think at one point they went to church together.


i'm glad to know that he is your EX-husband. Atleast you have enough self-respect to not put up with his **** instead of whining that, "my WS did so and so" to everyone, then staying with them. oh, for ****'s sake!


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

metallicaluvr said:


> i'm glad to know that he is your EX-husband. Atleast you have enough self-respect to not put up with his **** instead of whining that, "my WS did so and so" to everyone, then staying with them. oh, for ****'s sake!


That's a little harsh. Granted, actually remorseful WS are in the minority on TAM but they do exist, and some even have an awareness of the enormous gift their BS gives them if they consider reconciliation. One or two have offered great insight on this forum. 

There is a bit of a tendency to demonize APs on TAM and although obviously an affair can't happen without them, the WS is the one betraying their marriage vows, so in my mind they are just as culpable. Maybe even more so, as they know their kids and spouse, so they go into an affair knowing full well who it will effect. I do think APs can be enormously selfish and short-sighted but it those are not qualities that belong to the APs alone.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Makes me nauseated to see any AP defended. Some don't know. Most do. It isn't something the spouse tripped and fell on or into. 

It was planned, even when it seems like a ONS. Someone planned to see if that man or woman was interested in sex. They talked with them enough in depth that they made a good impression on them and figured they were safe enough to let themselves be vulnerable with them. None of it is an accident. None. There is always a plan of some sort, even if it's just a PUA plan. 

Anything else, is rape.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Maxo said:


> No,they are never accidents and women with integrity are not easily played.
> (and)
> That may be true,but to characterize work place affairs as accidents is absurd.


You and others keep telling yourself that - and you end up having an affair or your SO.

Sorry Maxo, but its easy to PLAY women than you think. Want to get laid? Go to a bar or club on Valentines... I've had sex with a woman within 5 minutes of meeting her. "you wanna F?" Worst 5 mins of sex of my life. bwhahaha. I didn't play her, I asked a direct question.

But if you bother learning anything about players, yeah - the tactics do work. Not all of the time. But enough.

There is a difference in someone LOOKING to get sex from another person (this is a sexual affair - usually players, even at work place) and the accidental - from working long hours and building a bonding relationship. You see it with companies all the time "relationship building" or "team building"... when your spouse spends 8~10 works working with someone - then comes home and spends 2~4 hours before going to sleep... hmmm. Same thing with teen kids in school.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TaDor said:


> You and others keep telling yourself that - and you end up having an affair or your SO.
> 
> Sorry Maxo, but its easy to PLAY women than you think. Want to get laid? Go to a bar or club on Valentines... I've had sex with a woman within 5 minutes of meeting her. "you wanna F?" Worst 5 mins of sex of my life. bwhahaha. I didn't play her, I asked a direct question.
> 
> ...


:slap:


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

TaDor said:


> You and others keep telling yourself that - and you end up having an affair or your SO.
> 
> Sorry Maxo, but its easy to PLAY women than you think. Want to get laid? Go to a bar or club on Valentines... I've had sex with a woman within 5 minutes of meeting her. "you wanna F?" Worst 5 mins of sex of my life. bwhahaha. I didn't play her, I asked a direct question.
> 
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree. I think it is an absurd notion that affairs happen accidentally. Just too many conscious decisions are made. There is always intent.
As for playing women,it is not playing anyone if thdy were already desirous of having sex. You cannot make a person with a decent amount of integrity cheat. But,I imagine it is easy if the person is lacking in character.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@ both of you: Like the post from a POSOM player - who goes out of his way to have sex with married women - he plays them, makes them feel like goddess. Then dumps them without a thought when he gets bored or it becomes a problem with her husband. Then you have the usual co-worker affairs : Friendship > EA > PA > broken relationship with BS.

People tend to act on their feelings. We're all rather stupid to some degree or another. And sorry ladies - you tend to fall in love with words more than actions. I've had a tough time try to explain to an 18yr relative that she is being played with "love letters" from a guy in prison that she dated short while when she was 16. She's read them to me and I would barf. I even had her talk with a good friend of mine who is an ex-con (minor situation - but still got jail over something he didn't do) - and he's seen it all and even he tried to explain to her the tactics. But SHE IS IN LOVE! Even thou he won't be out for another 3 years... she'll wait for him What stupid nonsense. Geez, I pointed out that she was already being mentally abused when she was worried about him yelling at her because she did something wrong or late. WTF?! Finally got her parents involved and the prison to break contact, etc - etc.

Then soon after, my wife falls for some of the same stupid crap with text messages on her cell-phone with a co-worker. How they will have a great life together and nobody understands them - garbage. When it was nothing more then drunk fog and affair fog. Once reality punched her in the gut, is when she finally saw the affair and the POSOM for what he is. He didn't care about her - just about what he can get. Now mind you - a month before my wife's affair started - there were no real signs to me there was something bothering my wife. We were good, we hung out - we partied, we had fun - we traveled on a vaction, etc. In a matter of weeks, things started changing. She even told a friend that I wasn't fun anymore because we were leaving a party. When in fact - it wasn't true, we were leaving because everyone else was tired and the OM was passed out. Her mind was starting to re-write history.

Even the best marriages, religion, money, whatever - can be brought down with an unplanned co-worker affair. Its a weakness yes... and it still blows chunks.

Oh, Maxo - my wife doesn't know exactly when the affair started. I think its because she felt sorry for the POSM (as did I - thinking he needed help) - but I told her that SHE knew she was doing wrong and broke our relationship the moment she decided to put a password on her phone, which was a week or so later that I found that out when I tried to use it in an honest way and soon after that when the poop hit the fan. Yeah, we have lots of therapy to do.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

TaDor said:


> Sorry Maxo, but its easy to PLAY women than you think. Want to get laid? Go to a bar or club on Valentines... I've had sex with a woman within 5 minutes of meeting her. "you wanna F?" Worst 5 mins of sex of my life. bwhahaha. I didn't play her, I asked a direct question.


I disagree with this. Women are not easily played. I think you're confusing picking up someone easily with being a player. In pretty much every instance I was able to get someone in bed on the first day, it wasn't because I was the "man". It was honestly because that particular woman was, how should I put it, "free spirited". In other words there was nothing special about me. And in all cases I definitely was not their first ONS. There are a lot of woman that are just like men these days. I guess that's why I'm scratching my head when I read posts about players that target married women. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I guess I just don't get the point of it. Plenty of other ponds to fish from.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Thor said:


> I am referring to serial OMs, who may be married but probably are usually single. They prey on married women.
> 
> My wife's ex-bf assclown is one such predator. He specifically targets married women. He is now divorced. He was a predator before he was married, and he is a predator now he is divorced. I presume he targeted married women while he was married, too.
> 
> The married guy who likes to screw other women whether or not they are married is a different kind of cheater than the type I was referring to.


My wife's first OM was exactly this type. A school principal that made a career bedding "his" female faculty. I know for Certain 4 at one school including my wife. Strange... They all new his game even talked about it together. Finally f--ked wrong man's wife and was fired run out of system.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RWB said:


> My wife's first OM was exactly this type. A school principal that made a career bedding "his" female faculty. I know for Certain 4 at one school including my wife. Strange... They all new his game even talked about it together. Finally f--ked wrong man's wife and was fired run out of system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For some reason women flock to these sorts of men. My wife's ex-bf is one of these guys, and his social media is over run with women looking for his attention.

When we were first married and in our 20's, I remember being at a social event with her home town crowd. This guy wasn't there, but all the women were talking about him and his exploits. They were giddy while talking about how he bedded a new girl every Friday and Saturday, and how he especially liked the married women.

Supposedly this kind of man would be a "creep" that all women would be repulsed by, if we were to listen to what women and pop culture tell us. Yet he was lusted after by the women, and a hero to the (unmarried) men.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Thor said:


> For some reason women flock to these sorts of men. My wife's ex-bf is one of these guys, and his social media is over run with women looking for his attention.
> 
> When we were first married and in our 20's, I remember being at a social event with her home town crowd. This guy wasn't there, but all the women were talking about him and his exploits. They were giddy while talking about how he bedded a new girl every Friday and Saturday, and how he especially liked the married women.
> 
> Supposedly this kind of man would be a "creep" that all women would be repulsed by, if we were to listen to what women and pop culture tell us. Yet he was lusted after by the women, and a hero to the (unmarried) men.


This is called "pre-selection". 

Don't listen to what they say; watch what they do. The same caution applies to men as well, of course: words are cheap, actions are more reliable as a guide.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> There are a lot of woman that are just like men these days. I guess that's why I'm scratching my head when I read posts about players that target married women. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I guess I just don't get the point of it. Plenty of other ponds to fish from.


There are plenty of advantages to this approach (not that I'm approving it, of course):

1. They are very unlikely to try to snare the guy into marriage.
2. They are not very likely to have an STD.
3. If they get pregnant there is a "designated sucker" to pay to raise the child.

and several other things that I forget but that are covered in the "married women are the best targets" post made by a "professional AP" that I've seen here somewhere. I'll see if I can locate it and repost it.

ETA: Here it is: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/1308795-post120.html


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Broken at 20,
> 
> The fact that you are a decent person (which of course has ZERO to do with his input other than being a sperm donor) might be the only positive thing that disgusting man may ever leave behind him once he shuffles off this rock.


I'm not a decent person. And I fully admit to that. But I also know the karma bus has run him over, and will likely back up a few times before it leaves the station. 



> When we were first married and in our 20's, I remember being at a social event with her home town crowd. This guy wasn't there, but all the women were talking about him and his exploits. They were giddy while talking about how he bedded a new girl every Friday and Saturday, and how he especially liked the married women.
> 
> Supposedly this kind of man would be a "creep" that all women would be repulsed by, if we were to listen to what women and pop culture tell us. Yet he was lusted after by the women, and a hero to the (unmarried) men.


He was likely a hero to several married men. 

People are naturally attracted to things that are prone to hurt them. I've seen friends do it, clients do it, even I did it. I knew meeting my father would hurt me, but I did it anyway. It's part of human nature to seek out that which will hurt us in several aspects of our life. Some of us are smart enough to turn away, while others are not. 

The difficulty is not knowing if you'll fall for this, because if you're honest with yourself, you'll generally know your answer. The difficult part comes when deciding if the person you are with is someone that will succumb to such temptation.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Thor said:


> For some reason women flock to these sorts of men...
> 
> When we were first married and in our 20's, I remember being at a social event with her home town crowd. This guy wasn't there, but all the women were talking about him and his exploits. They were giddy while talking about how he bedded a new girl every Friday and Saturday, and how he especially liked the married women.


I know it seems strange, way counterintuitive. Years before my wife's affair with her principal, she would come home and tell me about his sleeping around with married and single teachers at her school. 

I responded how can that be tolerated... She would always counter with their grown adults or their marriage was bad. And throw in how he was a great leader and understood the teachers problems, hmmm. WTF.

I honestly believed she was too smart to fall for his Sh!t game. Right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

RWB said:


> I know it seems strange, way counterintuitive. Years before my wife's affair with her principal, she would come home and tell me about his sleeping around with married and single teachers at her school.
> 
> I responded how can that be tolerated... She would always counter with their grown adults or their marriage was bad. And throw in how he was a great leader and understood the teachers problems, hmmm. WTF.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, 

Too many people are NEVER too smart to fall for it.

It amazes me.....the amount of bullsh*t people buy to tramp around in the land of unicorns and fairies.

I mean.....WAKE UP.....you are fooling around with a POS that has no problems f*cking married people.

If ANYTHING ought to be a RED FLAG when dealing with members of the opposite sex in a potential dating situation (not that already M people should be in that position to begin with)....it should be THIS.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> I mean.....WAKE UP.....you are fooling around with a POS that has no problems f*cking married people.


Of course, this is fiction below. 

Don't you trust me? I've never done a thing to make you jealous. Why are you jealous now? It's not very attractive. Then you wonder why I'm usually not in the mood. How am I supposed to be interested in someone who doesn't trust me? Then you want me to (insert new sex move/act). 

hmmm... seems like maybe that partner thinks they are more than human with an ability to turn off their feelings at will.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I disagree with this. Women are not easily played.


All women that I've known had already given thought and consideration to cheating; even those involved in ONS. Hence, those "hanging out" in bars and other places open to meeting men.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> All women that I've known had already given thought and consideration to cheating; even those involved in ONS. Hence, those "hanging out" in bars and other places open to meeting men.


Exactly what I meant. They've reached a point where for whatever reason they are open to stepping out. I am not a believer in "it just happened". I agree that this also includes ONS.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Trust me, it doesn't "just happen". It's like the Conway Twitty song, "I've already loved you in my mind".


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

man, relationships suck. I'm glad to see that more people are realising that the real reason they're so desperate to reconcile is fear of being single. Honestly, why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who has no respect for you? 

being single can be fun, and if you work on making yourself more attractive, you can have so much NSA sex instead of sitting at home like a ***** with a cheating *****/ man-*****.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

metallicaluvr said:


> man, relationships suck. I'm glad to see that more people are realising that the real reason they're so desperate to reconcile is fear of being single. Honestly, why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who has no respect for you?
> 
> being single can be fun, and if you work on making yourself more attractive, you can have so much NSA sex instead of sitting at home like a ***** with a cheating *****/ man-*****.


You sound kind of young, I don't mean that to offend, just an observation. When I was your age I hated unsolicited advice. But I'll offer you some anyway. NSA sex after a while becomes empty and pointless. It really is a lonely life when you don't have the emotional aspect of a relationship to go along with it. It just doesn't compare. Lastly, be careful not to let what you read in CWI make you pessimistic about finding someone special that will stay faithful.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> You sound kind of young, I don't mean that to offend, just an observation. When I was your age I hated unsolicited advice. But I'll offer you some anyway. NSA sex after a while becomes empty and pointless. It really is a lonely life when you don't have the emotional aspect of a relationship to go along with it. It just doesn't compare. Lastly, be careful not to let what you read in CWI make you pessimistic about finding someone special that will stay faithful.


I appreciate your wisdom. Getting advice is actually why I'm here lol, I just hate being TOLD what to do (clean this, fix that ugh).

idk if it's unusual for guys my age but I value the emotional connection in sex, too. I'm just saying that sometimes it seems to me that these low self-esteem BH's (idk about BW's) think that if they dump their ***** wife, they'll have to put so much effort into getting laid again. isn't self respect more important than sex?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Self respect is highly important. Real love is tough to find. It feels so good, it's tough to let go. It's also hard to believe or understand that a woman does have an easier time of it. Well, it seems so more often than not. There are plenty here who have had a tough time. I guess it partially has to do with whether you were left of did the leaving. 

As we get older, we have a tougher time finding someone because everyone has more baggage, including the BS. It's not impossible, but it becomes less and less likely as we get older. Unless you have a great job, a great retirement plan and good health and looks. Combine those with good character, a strong attitude that's not overbearing, a willingness to trust again and you have something. I'm sure there's more, but that's enough to make my point.

ReformedHubby is right, though. Don't let this place ruin you. There are plenty of marriages that are healthy. Most of them don't come here, though. This is more a place for marriages floundering on the rocks.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

you guys are really cool. I don't care about our age difference, if I could be friends with you guys in real life, I would. and @2ntnuf, I like your first quote a lot


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

metallicaluvr said:


> man, relationships suck. ~~
> being single can be fun, and if you work on making yourself more attractive, you can have so much NSA sex instead of sitting at home like a ***** with a cheating *****/ man-*****.


I've just joined the single club. I was doing ONS, NSA sex all the time until I meet my wife who would end up my cheating lying evil lame excuse "love of my life" wayward. GOD it still hurts.

But yeah, there is a difference in sex and be gone... and sleeping, holding, spending LIVING time with another person. I'm very used to sleeping with my EX - I'm not sleeping well, its night 3 now. I don't remember actually sleeping but once in the past 5 days. I'm about to go to bed... emptyish.

I do want to find love again, but its going to take a while.

Meanwhile - I just installed Tinder. I'll play with it for a while - then maybe try to get something out of it in a few weeks. Some friends recommended.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Self respect is highly important. Real love is tough to find. It feels so good, it's tough to let go.
> 
> As we get older, we have a tougher time finding someone because everyone has more baggage, including the BS. It's not impossible, but it becomes less and less likely as we get older. Unless you have a great job, a great retirement plan and good health and looks. Combine those with good character, a strong attitude that's not overbearing, a willingness to trust again and you have something. I'm sure there's more, but that's enough to make my point.


I think REAL LOVE is hard to find. Sorry, been with enough women who start falling in love after a first time in the sack, ugh.

But I'm older and was content on living my life out with my XWW - now that is shot dead. I now have more baggage and I have a baby and I'm a man. Whose not well-off with $$$, but I got the looks 

I'm going to be 46 in a few months, and my xww is 31 - so she's getting up there in the "older" age. Its easier for me to pick up 22~26yr old women than her to pick up younger guys - but then again, all a woman has to do is say "do me" - and someone will.

With my recent pain, I'll be going for the easy ones. Crappy empty sex.
But hey, a friend of mine met her husband using Ok Cupid for a ONS.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> As we get older, we have a tougher time finding someone because everyone has more baggage, including the BS. It's not impossible, but it becomes less and less likely as we get older. Unless you have a great job, a great retirement plan and good health and looks. Combine those with good character, a strong attitude that's not overbearing, a willingness to trust again and you have something.


Yeah, that's a significant deterrent to divorce. I'm in my 50's now. Women I'd consider long term relationships with would be roughly 40 to 55 yrs old. Presumably they'd be divorced (I'd be concerned if they'd never been married). So they'll have baggage. And potentially unknown negatives in their history. How could anyone be sure she didn't have a history of cheating? Without being in a long term relationship with her, how could one know if she was capable of being a good partner?

I've been told I would be attractive on the singles market. That's fine if true. It would make it easier to attract a variety of women to meet, but all of them will have their own faults and baggage.

To some extent then it comes down to is the devil we know better than the devil we don't?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thor said:


> Yeah, that's a significant deterrent to divorce. I'm in my 50's now. Women I'd consider long term relationships with would be roughly 40 to 55 yrs old. Presumably they'd be divorced (I'd be concerned if they'd never been married). So they'll have baggage. And potentially unknown negatives in their history.


I'll be 54 at the end of September. I'm haven't even dated yet. I've been separated since June 2011 and divorced since July 2012. I'm not even in a place financially, emotionally or mentally to go out, let alone date. 

Never married may or may not be an issue. Just don't know why and likely never will. It's all scary. And, I haven't met anyone or even seen anyone that has been attractive to me. I mean just at the store or something. You know how you sometimes see an attractive woman? Nope, not me. Those who are will likely be out of my league. I feel doomed. 



Thor said:


> How could anyone be sure she didn't have a history of cheating?


No one can ever know. Unless, they can talk with their friends who betray their trust. That's unlikely to happen.



Thor said:


> Without being in a long term relationship with her, how could one know if she was capable of being a good partner?


I suppose you could go to a marriage counselor and find out something, but that isn't even really enough. They can be fooled, too. 



Thor said:


> I've been told I would be attractive on the singles market. That's fine if true. It would make it easier to attract a variety of women to meet, but all of them will have their own faults and baggage.


Yep, we all have baggage, especially at this age. Even if a woman is older and her children are gone, you will still have to deal with them and her ex-husband or the father of the children. Don't know if I am up for all that. 

Kids won't necessarily respect you because you had no hand in raising them and many times they don't see the need for their mother to take a risk with her happiness. Been there with my mum, though she was older than I am when she remarried. She ended up burying him, though she was fine with it. 



Thor said:


> To some extent then it comes down to is the devil we know better than the devil we don't?


That's why I did not seek a divorce when I knew she was cheating and also why I did not search for proof. It would have made it tougher, because I would have lost more love and respect for her than necessary. I didn't want to taint my memories with the thoughts of what she was doing and who it was with. She ended up making me know, and that's when I was hurt/harmed the most. Before that, I was okay, but bad. This was all before I came here. 

Yes, I loved her more than anyone I'd ever known. 

You know what? My counselor asked about someone I dated and if I'd be interested. Yeah, but I told her I wasn't sure how I'd handle her old man after they divorced and her children might hate me. She didn't say anything. I'm going to speak to her about that. Odd that she asked. It's been on my mind.

I get that these were more rhetorical questions. Just felt like giving my opinions, right or wrong. Sometimes, it's nice to get to know someone a little better.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> All women that I've known had already given thought and consideration to cheating; even those involved in ONS. Hence, those "hanging out" in bars and other places open to meeting men.


That is a select group,however.


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

I know this thread is over a year old, but I can't stop feeling resentful towards predatory women & men that know the wayward spouses are married, have children etc. and still choose to have the affair.

I can't stop thinking about the OW and what a pitiful man-chasing hard up hoe she was and still is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

APs are more like scavengers rather than predators most of the time. They gather the fallen fruit and carrion on the ground rather than expending effort and energy pursuing the strong.

In many cases it is actually the WS that makes the initial move and indicates their willingness. The AP is just picking up what has already fallen. 

In the case of WWs, there is no easier NSA sex without any strings or without having to date or having to have candlelight dinners or moonlight walks on the beach. 

A WW will never ask you to fix her car, patch her roof or unclog her toilet. She's got her chump for that.

All a WW will ask of her OM is attention, ego strokes and orgasms. 

In return she'll put out.

A WW is the ultimate FB.

Single chicks want to be woo'd and charmed and catered to and then she'll worry if she is putting out too soon or too late and she'll always ask where things are going and if there is a future.

A WW needs none of that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But the question posed was "how" do APs justify breaking up families.

The answer is - they don't.

Not their circus, not their monkey.

The security and stability of the marital home and family are the responsibilities of the married couple. Not the playa' at the end of the bar. And not the cutie that started working in the secretarial float pool.

They are free agents that owe no alligence to anyone. 

If they find the idea of getting down with a married person repugnant, they can walk away or even tell their spouse.

But if they find the WS sexually attractive and they have no other reason not to, the home and family is not on their radar. That's for the WS and the BS to worry about.

I hate to break it to ya, but if you are a married man and your wife is under 250lbs and doesn't smell bad, almost every man will take up her offer as long as she can convince him she won't ask anything of him.

And if you are a woman and your H is successful and in good shape and takes care of himself, there's going to desperate housewives and single girls that will gladly throw out your stuff and park their shoes in your closet. 

When a couple gets married, they are the ones making the vows and signing the contract. 

The rest of the world is not.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I find it much more amazing how many people are completely degraded by their spouses in the worst possible way and as soon as said spouse apologize they are ready to just back into a relationship with them. So many accept this treatment, it's really astounds me. If you had told me this before I started reading these boards I would have told you you are crazy. But it's true. Men seem to do this more then women do. 

I get that cheating is human nature to some extent, I hate it but I at least understand it. But the other makes no sense to me. 

Also how many women are susceptible to compliments. It amazes me that for so many married women this is really all it takes. Prolonged compliments and they are ready to destroy their entire world, their family and their spouse who has often put in years of loyalty. It's actually scary. An unscrupulous man would look at this and realize all they need to do is compliment every women and if you only hit on 10% you still have a ton of women willing to give you what. I would actually be weary of a women who told me her primary love language is "words of affirmation", because they require little work and can't really be verified because they are so shallow in nature. They have as much substance as cotton candy, and yet so many lives are destroyed for them.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

sokillme said:


> I find it much more amazing how many people are completely degraded by their spouses in the worst possible way and as soon as said spouse apologize they are ready to just back into a relationship with them. So many accept this treatment, it's really astounds me. If you had told me this before I started reading these boards I would have told you you are crazy. But it's true. Men seem to do this more then women do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So is it true you have no first hand experience with infidelity on either end but just know about this subject from what you read on the internet?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Many people only think about themselves and like to believe they are "special" and their situation is unique. Cheaters lie and will feed all kinds of lines to their AP about how their spouse treats them like roommates, they were never in love, they are only keeping up the facade for the sake of the children. 

IMO, the WS is 100% at fault, not their AP who never made vows to the BS in the first place (unless they are also married and betraying their own spouse). 

No wife or husband should ever have to rely on the sound judgement of a possible affair partner to respect the marital boundaries. That's the job of the married couple.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> So is it true you have no first hand experience with infidelity on either end but just know about this subject from what you read on the internet?


I don't have firsthand experience with infidelity in my own marriage but I've had people very close to me experience it and have spent many hours learning about affairs from psychologists. I've also had the opportunity to interview many mental health professionals for a living and have a (undergrad) degree in Psych. 

I don't think you need firsthand experience to understand how devastating an affair can be, especially if you're married. Though I do recognize that those who do have firsthand experience have a lot of helpful advice to share with those going through it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> I don't have firsthand experience with infidelity in my own marriage but I've had people very close to me experience it and have spent many hours learning about affairs from psychologists. I've also had the opportunity to interview many mental health professionals for a living and have a (undergrad) degree in Psych.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you need firsthand experience to understand how devastating an affair can be, especially if you're married. Though I do recognize that those who do have firsthand experience have a lot of helpful advice to share with those going through it.



Thanks but my question was specific to another poster that writes prolifically against reconciliation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> So is it true you have no first hand experience with infidelity on either end but just know about this subject from what you read on the internet?


Nope cheated on by my first love, found out after I proposed. Father was a serial cheater on almost every women he was with. I lived with the consequences quite a lot in my life first as a kid and then in the aftermath of my almost fiancee. At least she had the dignity of not saying yes and told me she had to think about it. That's what got me investigating. In my experience no one in my life was content to survive infidelity, they all got out of infidelity. Me included. 

I have had no experience with people staying with someone who abused them so terribly. I also have no experience with anyone suggesting this is a good thing. Again shocking to me. Regular run of the mill ONS cheating, I can see why people stay together. In your face blatant abuse, the kind that show a total lack of respect and then advice to stay with such a person, nope. It's like staying with someone who beat you up and put you in the hospital. It's just wrong. Until I started reading these boards I would have thought my thinking was the norm. 

If you read Reddit most people think like me, but that is a broader section of people. I think people who post on these types of boards tend to be the type who romanticize R. I mean SI for example is really a board for people who are very codependent and they are further isolated so that they can't even hear other ideas. Even Quality hates that board.

There is also a ton of fake post on there and more so since the women who started it died.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Thor said:


> Yeah, that's a significant deterrent to divorce. I'm in my 50's now. Women I'd consider long term relationships with would be roughly 40 to 55 yrs old. Presumably they'd be divorced (I'd be concerned if they'd never been married). *So they'll have baggage*. And potentially unknown negatives in their history. How could anyone be sure she didn't have a history of cheating? Without being in a long term relationship with her, how could one know if she was capable of being a good partner?
> 
> I've been told I would be attractive on the singles market. That's fine if true. It would make it easier to attract a variety of women to meet, but all of them will have their own faults and baggage.
> 
> To some extent then it comes down to is the devil we know better than the devil we don't?


I may be remembering wrong, but didn't you say you were a pilot? 

If that's the case then can't you just lose their baggage or get it sent elsewhere? You must know the right people.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> No wife or husband should ever have to rely on the sound judgement of a possible affair partner to respect the marital boundaries. That's the job of the married couple.


This ^^^^^^^


The marriage is between the two people who exchange vows and sign the papers. 

They are the ones held accountable to the vows and the contract, no 3rd parties make vows or sign contracts to not score off of a married person. 

Yes, it's crappy of them but an AP is only out to feather their own nest. If some horny dude has an opportunity to score off a married chick, a ring is not going to stop him. 

If some gal has a handsome, successful, charming man telling her that she is cuter and sexier and nicer than his cold, frigid, fat ol' wife and says if she plays her cards right she will be the lady of the manner, she will have no problem painting the walls and putting up her own décor in the house.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

In my divorce I cared .05% about the OM, it could have been anyone once she decided that she was willing to step out of the marriage. He meant nothing to me, she did. If I was going to yell at anyone it was her, not him.

The APs are not breaking up a marriage, by the time they show up on the scene the marriage is already broken (as in W or H is done with M) and they are picking up the pieces. Taking what is offered by the waywards....


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

mickybill said:


> The APs are not breaking up a marriage, by the time they show up on the scene the marriage is already broken (as in W or H is done with M) and they are picking up the pieces. Taking what is offered by the waywards....


🙄

Umm there are definitely cases of wayward spouses that were pursued by their AP - meaning the OM or OW initiated contact/seduced/initiated sex. Of course the WS's choose to engage in the affair, no-one put a gun to their head, but they wouldn't have cheated if the AP wasn't chasing them


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

DepressedDiva said:


> &#55357;&#56900;
> 
> Umm there are definitely cases of wayward spouses that were pursued by their AP - meaning the OM or OW initiated contact/seduced/initiated sex. Of course the WS's choose to engage in the affair, no-one put a gun to their head, but they wouldn't have cheated if the AP wasn't chasing them


Maybe so. But like our MC always said, it takes two to say yes and only one to say no. Being pursued is justification by the wayward. Most of us at some point in our marriages have had a chance to be with or pursued by an available OM or OW, I have and I chose not to cheat and if I really felt the OW was "The One" I would've gotten out of my marriage. My XW felt otherwise...

But then again I have never been very good at multi-tasking, and I have an awful poker face.:frown2:


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