# How do I have sex with my wife when I don't trust her?



## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

Hi, first post in this section. Been married 20 years, relationship has been getting progressively worse on my end for the last ten years because I feel very taken for granted and neglected, and just earlier this month, there were several straws that broke the camel's back which finally irked me so badly that it's served as something of a wake up call for her - when she realized I was actually thinking of leaving, she has made some attempts (in my mind rather feeble attempts, but attempts nonetheless) to change.

Our sex life from the get-go was extraordinary and extremely kinky - really wonderful stuff. It gradually dwindled as I would've expected, went through a period for a couple of years where it was dang near dead, then in 2011 and early 2012 we ramped it up and honestly we were having the best sex of our lives, it was amazing and I couldn't believe how great it was. That died out rather rapidly mid-year and through 2013 became less-and-less frequent, then on Easter weekend of 2013 she got religion, literally, and virtually all the wonderful kinky sex we'd had forever came almost to a complete shutdown. Since then, sex has been pretty dull and down to two or three times a month, we've talked about it a lot, and she tells me she feels guilty about most of the stuff we've done and while she enjoyed it, she doesn't think she wants to do much of that anymore (we were always monogamous, no orgies or anything). We have toy boxes bigger than Toys R Us, and now it's all going to waste.

Fast forward a bit, we've had bigger issues outside the bedroom. She hasn't had an affair or anything, but there's been a long-term pattern of events where she's done things behind my back, simply tuned me out over-and-over again, and generally just made me feel like an old brown shoe (there's another thread on that in the general stuff section). Two weeks ago, right before things blew up, we last had sex and typically, it wasn't going too well - I spent an hour doing all sorts of fun things to her with a couple of toys (highly recommend that Hitachi Magic Wand if you don't have one) and she had three orgasms and finally reached her "no more, please!" point. Before and during the early parts of that sex session, I'd told her I wanted her to give me a BJ at the end because it's just been a long time since that's happened and I wanted one. She was all "oh yes, absolutely", and once she was finished with her third and we knew we were running out of time before our teenage daughter returned home, I expected to get my BJ. I was surprised when she had apparently forgotten about that and just basically assumed the "do me" position. I reminded her, and she then said could we do that next time instead. I got irritated and just put my clothes back on and that was the end of that. I cannot tell you how many times in the last couple of years she's just been so sexually lazy she just lays there, not doing much of anything, then when she does it's always because I've asked her to, and even then, half the time she performs the act as though I'd asked her to donate a kidney. 

Well, now she's made minor efforts (very minor) to start trying to repair our marriage, but I don't feel she's doing very much. Quite honestly, my sex drive right now is non-existent, which is extremely strange for me. My wife is very attractive, I still love her, but I just don't trust her and I don't think she's putting much thought into our relationship now (which has been the major problem the last ten years anyway). She suggested last night that we fool around, and I just couldn't do it - I feel very distant from her right now and I just don't think about having sex. 

Am I in the wrong here? I'm not trying to hold out on sex to punish her or anything like that, it's just that she's continuously crushed me down for the last few years, our sex life was already suffering, and I just don't have any interest right now. In fact, I was trying to get myself "in the mood" last night thinking of all the great times we've had in the past and those thoughts just kept getting pushed out by the more recent train wreck sex sessions we've had in the last couple years. 

Never been here before and I have no idea what to do about it. Any suggestions would be most appreciated - thanks all.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I can see the obvious disappointment where your wife has gotten lazy in bed and basically takes more pleasure than she gives. That would irritate be for sure. However, I'm more interested in the other areas you brought up like the "doing things behind your back" and "regularly tuning you out". Since sexual issues that pop up in a marriage/relationship usually indicate that there are non-sexual issues that are affecting your intimacy, I'd look more into that first before getting to hung up on specific sex acts. Something made your wife lose interest in sex.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Your description of recent sex and you turning down mediocre sex could have been written by me. Sorry. I feel for you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

What is it you don't trust her about?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Your description of recent sex and you turning down mediocre sex could have been written by me. Sorry. I feel for you.


I've been there too. Especially the part about blowing her mind and then getting a rain check on my fun. 

But I think I've finally gotten through. I quit beating around the bush altogether. I've bluntly told my wife that I felt she was incredibly selfish and she should be a giver too. That I do enjoy giving, I love making her feel that way. But it takes the fun out of it for me if it's never reciprocated. The first several times she gotten defensive. Hell, a BUNCH of times she's gotten defensive. But is has sunken in, and she's trying harder now.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me, I would speak my mind in a way that she understood that I was serious and her lack of trying is only going to make matters worse.

You can't force her to do what you want but she has to understand that you have needs and their not being met and your not a happy camper.


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

As to why I don't trust her? We've gone to counseling for years and had countless talks through the years. She readily admits that she's acted thoughtlessly for years and the counselor has given her a laundry list of things to work on and books to read - all of which she says she'll do when we're in the office. We get home, and she does none of it. 

We've talked probably a hundred times in the last ten years about her lack of attentiveness and thoughtless actions (she actually forgot my birthday last year and we've been married 20 years and together for three years prior to that). Each time she cries and vows to change her ways. Within days she's right back to her normal ways. I just don't trust her to do anything right now. If she told me she was going to pick up milk on the way home I wouldn't believe her. 

I realize this isn't just a sexual thing, but it's now hit me sexually, and for the first time ever, I'm the one who doesn't want to have sex and I'm astonished by that. I thought we were having the best sex of our lives a couple of years ago then she tells me it was great but she feels guilty about it now? And basically she's willing to lie back and receive all the attention I'm willing to give her, but she's done nothing on her own to lift a finger to pleasure me without me prompting her to do it. Lately, even that has been very sub-par. I really just don't know what to do about it. We're still going to counseling, but given her track record there I don't expect much, and with the hopelessness and just not trusting her to do anything, it seems my sex drive has gone out the window. 

I do collect antique toy trains (thus my user name), but I never expected to be one of those guys who retreats into his train room and starts wearing sans-a-belt slacks, wearing nerdy t-shirts, and getting fat, at least not at this age anyway - maybe when I'm seventy I could see it, but not right now. :scratchhead:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Thor said:


> What is it you don't trust her about?


He doesn't trust her with the reigns to his sex life. He doesn't trust that she'll be there for him as an enthusiastic partner. All he sees is that she's doing the bare minimum to keep him from leaving.


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> He doesn't trust her with the reigns to his sex life. He doesn't trust that she'll be there for him as an enthusiastic partner. All he sees is that she's doing the bare minimum to keep him from leaving.


Well, that too actually. I didn't say it in so few words, but yes, that does come into mind. Moreover, with her religion seemingly firmly in place, I have very little hope of ever having high quality super-involved five-course-meal kinky sex weekends ever again - she's pretty much made that clear. What do you do when there's nothing to look forward to but a steady dose of vanilla ice cream from a person you love but you're afraid she's going to continue to take you for granted in virtually every aspect of life?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Religion should not stop kinkiness. Nowhere I know of, in the Bible, does it say that a married couple should not experience all that sex has to offer between the couple. Someone is teaching the wrong things. Your wife needs to talk to someone who knows this stuff. Also, I would be suspicious of someone else getting what you used to get. Maybe there is a physical connection to this new religious belief and your wife? Time to step in and find out what is going on.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Send her to Front Page to learn about what the Bible says.

You might want to read about 1 Cor 7, and also the concept of a One Flesh marriage.

1 Cor 7 - Sexual Responsibility

I am not religious at all, so I am not pushing a religious agenda. There are some good forums over on themarriagebed website.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bild-a-loco said:


> Well, that too actually. I didn't say it in so few words, but yes, that does come into mind.


What does she say when you tell her you don't trust her?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Your wife is who she is. She has shown through actions over the years who she is. She is not going to be nudged into being someone different. The only way she is going to change is if she sees a real need to change based on something she values. Which means you will have to make her feel some fear of losing something she values. It could be you, it could be the public image of a marriage, it could be financial security from being with you. You're going to have to shake things up, and then with some luck she will make real changes not pretend changes.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Feel for you as it sounds similar to my situation and I feel your pain.

Woman ask us to communicate and when you do that and ask for something, in this case a BJ, and they refuse to supply that need it is a pretty solid turn off. Especially when you are doing everything you can for her. It's a selfish streak on her part and makes you feel unimportant.

The only advice I could give is to openly communicate your needs and continue to do so to see if she will make a meaningful change. It may take a walkout on your part to have her see the seriousness of the situation.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I've been thinking @ this thread and (at the risk of being flamed) I want to say something, speaking from my solidly moral Christian wife perspective.

Been married 30+ years. We have never used sex toys, and there isn't a lot of kinky. Perhaps our sex life fits the judgement of "vanilla"? We almost always end with face to face missionary, naked, and deep kissing. And for the life of me, I don't get why people dis missionary. To me O that way is far and away the deepest and most intimate experience

My H has had two attitudes @ this. Same H, same W, same M, same sex life. Different attitude.

When he was using porn- chip on his shoulder, resentful, grass is greener.

Now that he's clean he said to me the other day "wow our sex is just getting better and better all the time" and after our vacation during which the frequency doubled he said "when we retire, you think it will be like that all the time?" 

I won't get long winded @ my convictions on this issue but 1 Pet 3 and Titus 2 both teach that the wife should be chaste. For me, that means I don't do anything sexually that makes me feel used, dirty, prostitutish. It has to feel pure and loving to me. 

If you can't accept her religious convictions, divorce her so she can find someone who can. But I question whether you are going to find greener grass elsewhere?

You may want to consider going cold turkey on the porn. High Fructose Porn Syrup | Married Man Sex Life

PS. I don't think I will come back to read responses as this thread feels too locker room-ish and I'm afraid I won't be treated respectfully because my views diverge.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Keep it simple in the bedroom - this is something I'm gradually learning, myself. I don't have 20 years of marriage behind me, so I haven't yet gone through all the ups and downs, at least on that scale.

So next time you guys end up there, instead of asking for a BJ after, and then giving her 3 O's, give her one, then get yours, then give her another.

In my experience with multi-orgasmic women, they have a physical limit, and it's difficult, if not impossible, to go beyond that. So she gets three, then she's physically exhausted, and of course she doesn't want (or even have the strength) to do much of anything. Not only that, but the sexual excitement for her is gone, baby, gone. She just wants to bask in the afterglow.

So from her point of view, after 3 O's, she's done. Like DONE done. IMO, she should get a free pass there. If it keeps happening like this, then like I said, change it up, and make sure you get yours before she's past the point of no return. 

It doesn't seem like a question of her being totally selfish and rolling over and telling you to finish yourself off if you're so inclined. She was willing to have you finish in other ways, just not the way you wanted, and one that requires considerable effort on her part - AFTER she's been completely tired out by you. Is it cool? Well, no. But the simple solution is to not allow her to get that exhausted and then expect some major effort on her part, particularly when the over all sexual excitement is gone.

I don't know, think of it this way: Your wife comes home from somewhere, and tries to jump your bones. Problem is, you just masturbated. She's all into it and excited, but you've already had your sexual release, so your mind isn't there (even though it JUST was), you're exhausted and you have no desire to do anything, but she expects you to ride her like a stolen horse. It just isn't happening.

I still haven't figured out my wife (and probably never will!) but this is one lesson I've learned. I've also learned that, even if she's capable of having 4 or 5 O's, she doesn't necessarily want that every time. In fact if you were to ask her, she'd be happy and satisfied with just one, or maybe two 99% of the time.

I've also learned that the worst thing you can do in this case is to make her feel bad about it. Instead, either say nothing to her at all, or remark on how tired you made her and be confident and proud of it. And then next time, don't give her a second or third one until YOU have been given what you want.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Blonde said:


> I've been thinking @ this thread and (at the risk of being flamed) I want to say something, speaking from my solidly moral Christian wife perspective.
> 
> We have never used sex toys, and there isn't a lot of kinky. Perhaps our sex life fits the judgement of "vanilla"? We almost always end with face to face missionary, naked, and deep kissing. And for the life of me, I don't get why people dis missionary. To me O that way is far and away the deepest and most intimate experience
> 
> ...


Blonde I dont believe youve said anything wrong in here. This is something you feel is right. Just because you dont want to dress up, use a sex toy and tryout a vast range of sexual positions doesnt make you bad in any way. Some people feel uncomfortable about this, some females AND males have fantisies and never let on to their partner what they are - even though they might actually have the same ones anyway. Its a culture thing and a personal choice. I, for one respect that.

In the case of our friend here. He has said that initially sex was hot and heavy and yes it can/does sometimes ease off over time. However, there appears to be nagging issues which we are yet to be privy to which makes him feel like hes used. the other issues he tolerated and both nhave been to MC for - tehre appears in the session to be an agreement to work on issues which then is dropped on leaving the room - there appears to be NO explaination from her why, not even during a session, which afterall is where all and any issues are brought out so that they are not blocking the path to get the marridge back and working.
Its certainly uncomfortable from either sex's point of view that one has multiple orgasms and the other, hoping to have thier special sexual turn (and that has been agreed) dashed with, from my view here a feeling "of screw you Im ok now, ill lie here like a carpet you get on with it". He may as well gone to the bath room and indulged in some personal time. I can see that in his writing.
BILD - I, like a few here suspect that the "other issues" have still to be sorted and teh sexual issues is the last straw. 

It might be that you now with draw your sexual efforts and or make her satisfy you first and then she caan have some of her fun as youve descibed in first post. If she not happy with that. then youve got the message that she wants all and does not want to give. 

Some simple retraction from the accomodating husband may just open her eyes to the colour of the grass the other side of the fence. 

Blonde; I still think you have the right to add in here even if its alittle like a lads locker room. Ive heard wives talking and god help me they are more graphic and more earthy than most guys.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Do/Did you give her oral as well? Was she wanting the use of toys for her and is you putting in that effort a typical thing or were you doing it just to get a BJ after? I realize my feelings on this are not typical and have a lot to do with my own history/resentment but I sometimes get a little annoyed at both the use of toys to finish me and when he then wants something _extra _in return for my O. 

We had fallen into a pattern not too long ago where sex was just sex, where I can't O, but if he took the time to make me O beforehand he would often want a BJ. I felt that he was expecting a treat/reward, over and above, for just doing what he was supposed to be doing anyway. Like me expecting a reward for doing the dishes (I know, terrible example I tried thinking of something else) 

Now if he used toys it made it even worse because I could have done that myself and it's not as much work as a BJ would be. It's not an over and above action that should be given an over and above reaction. If he gave me oral I was more Ok with a BJ. I'm also fine with standalone BJs as long as our sex life is on the right track, I just don't like feelings like it's expected _because _I got an O. 

If this was her issue as well I would suggest asking for BJs outside of "well I just did this for you so I should get one" so either before or as a standalone or if she suggests it after. Don't make it a payment for your services - that you should be doing regardless. 

FTR- I used to give BJs daily but cut them off after not getting anything in return so there's where my tit for tat feelings came from, they have returned but they are a lot harder for me now - mentally - and clearly my view isn't normal, or healthy really, but I thought I'd add it as a suggestion anyway.


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

There's a thread on our relationship and issues over all in the General Relationship Discussion section if anyone wants more background on our general problems. 

Blonde, not bothered by what you've said at all - that's the way you and your husband have decided to enjoy sex and if ya'll enjoy it that way, that's fantastic and I'm certainly happy for you both. 

In our case, we've had developing issues for years outside of the bedroom, most of which are just basically centered on wife being downright thoughtless towards me and it's finally reached critical mass. The best thing we had going was our sex life. In the early years, she was a sexual dynamo and there wasn't much of anything that was too kinky and she often initiated things back then. About ten years in, that started to die out, but with just getting older I expected it would. I did not expect her to just fold up and turn into a limp noodle, and then tell me she felt guilty about doing things that we've done for the last twenty-three years. 

As far as doing things for her and to her, yes, I've always spent MUCH more time satisfying her and doing things for her than she has for me - not even comparable, but then again, I've always loved doing it - until now. When I say "kinky", yes, we're one of those couples who's always been into bondage and light S&M (nothing overly sadistic, but she had a long standing fetish for being tied up and wearing nostalgic lingerie, and what guy out there would object to that?). And along with that, we've picked up tons of sex toys 95% of them for her, and she has TONS of sexy outfits for role play and such (my wife honestly looks VERY much like Bettie Page looked and even has her hair cut the same way). So, after last Easter, it came as a serious shocker that she basically told me she doesn't want to do that kind of stuff anymore and has been feeling guilty about it because (in her mind) what we've done all along is somehow sinful. Don't ask me to explain her rationale for that - I can't. She was raised Southern Baptist as a child and she's now full of "that old time religion" and darn near everything is a sin. 

The occasion I mentioned where I got flustered for not getting a BJ was just the straw that broke the camel's back for me, sexually, which was then followed two days later by a much bigger issue outside the bedroom (see the other section for that). That one night has been pretty typical of how things have gone for the last year - she's not putting any effort at all into sex, she hasn't put on a single piece of lingerie in I can't remember when, and knowing what she was always like, it's just beyond maddening - it's like a pro basketball player who's now decided he cannot dribble a ball. She's always been multi-orgasmic and that never used to stop her from doing things for me (she's had as many as nine in one evening). 

Just back in 2011, we were once again going to bed & breakfasts for weekend getaways and we'd start "playing" Friday evening and literally we wouldn't stop for anything but food until Sunday morning when we had to leave. We'd both be exhausted but it was FANTASTIC! Now, she's flat out told me she doesn't want to do that kind of stuff anymore. How in the blazes am I supposed to deal with that??!! 

Atop all that, literally just in the last couple of days, I've found that I'm so put out by everything going on right now my sex drive is completely dead, so maybe this will all work out anyway since all of a sudden, I'm not interested in sex because I'm too aggravated. 

Don't know - thanks to all - @Thor, thank you, very good advice, and to everyone else, thank you for letting me vent - this place is helping me keep my sanity. Take care.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> The best thing we had going was our sex life.


This is never enough to get married on and have a good long-term marriage. I stopped there. You have more issues than this? Sex in itself, can be a deal-breaker. If there are more issues, I don't know what to say. You either work on them one at a time from the least difficult to the most or you just, "throw in the towel".


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> This is never enough to get married on and have a good long-term marriage. I stopped there. You have more issues than this? Sex in itself, can be a deal-breaker. If there are more issues, I don't know what to say. You either work on them one at a time from the least difficult to the most or you just, "throw in the towel".


I poorly stated my third paragraph, what I was trying to say (poorly) was that once we started having problems outside the bedroom and she started treating me like an old brown shoe in most regards, THEN, our sex life was the best thing we still had left. I certainly realize building a marriage based purely on sex is a bad idea and ours wasn't, it was just an extremely good perk! 

Thanks and take care!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

It seems like part of the problem (in addition to those outside the bedroom) is the abrupt, unilateral change. That is technically acceptable, as she gets to decide what she wants to do and is comfortable. But she does not get to decide that he should have no issue with it. Making a one-sided decision like this creates problems in any marriage.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Hey, Loco,

Have you read MMSLP? One of the guys on your other thread mentioned that along with some stuff by a guy who uses the name Calle Zorro (Fox Street). Have you looked into either one of those?

Also, what was your wife's religious background before you met?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

bild-a-loco said:


> Well, that too actually. I didn't say it in so few words, but yes, that does come into mind. Moreover, with her religion seemingly firmly in place, I have very little hope of ever having high quality super-involved five-course-meal kinky sex weekends ever again - she's pretty much made that clear. What do you do when there's nothing to look forward to but a steady dose of vanilla ice cream from a person you love but you're afraid she's going to continue to take you for granted in virtually every aspect of life?


I so hate when women blame religion for not wanting to have sex or get kinky!!!!' Have you read the Song of Solomon in the Bible...really! There is nothing in the Bible against man and wife doing anything sexual in the bedroom. Now if she is a different religion excuse my rant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Do you think she may be using religion as pure subterfuge and that the reason why she's cutting out the sex is something else? Hard to imagine living that adventurous lifestyle and then going cold-turkey and denying enjoyment not only for herself but for her partner, the one who agreed when you married that you'd forsake all others until death? 

I know where your'e at. This attitude change would not work for me, and for her to use religion as the reason would be insulting.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Bild-a-Loco,

You have explained pretty clearly that the root of the problem is deeper than just sex. Your wife has disconnected from you emotionally. Her move into religion seems to be a justification for a ramped down sex life, i.e., she cancelled a major positive element in your relationship.

BJ's are more work than a Hitachi wand, but still a woman who is in love and in lust will be interested to getting her man off. But as you said this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Given that you have been in MC so long, there seems to be no easy solution.

Perhaps you have to up your sex ranking?

Do you make small towns for your trains? May I suggest that you build bordello. Perhaps you can also create some scenes with lovers?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

First of all, as a devout Christian woman who has studied the Bible extensively for years, I can say that the only thing that the Bible would teach is wrong sexually would be if it caused harm, if it was against how the body was designed or both. Sodomy would fit into this and so would pornography. Other than that, most things are okay, as long as they are between a husband and wife.
Secondly, from your posts, it appears that you are not a Christian. It appears, from reading what you have said here, that something has been bothering your wife for a long time and it hasn’t gotten better. Finally she got to the point where she recommitted her life to Christ, but it has caused a problem in the only area of your relationship that you thought was going well. If you feel that way, she probably does too.
I have an odd idea, but it could help both of you. The Bible teaches that the husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader, but as a non-Christian you obviously cannot do that. It’s okay, however, it would probably be a huge thing to your wife if you would take the time to pray with her nightly about improving your marriage. This would lead your wife to seek God’s will for your marriage and show that you care about her faith and thus about her. You can be clear with her that you don’t believe, but that you think it could help anyway. Then spend a couple minutes every night asking the Lord to reveal His truth to you and to resolve the conflicts in your marriage. It can’t hurt, but it could do a world of good.
I can tell you that God wants to see your marriage healed. He wants you to love each other and to have a healthy marriage, including sexually. God created sex to be pleasurable and mutually beneficial. You don’t have to believe this, but your wife already should, because it makes sense if you believe that God created us and that He created us to express ourselves to our spouse in a pleasing sexual way. 
You might even ask her to do a Bible study on sex with her. Or you could study Song of Solomon together, which is about love between a man and a woman. I’m sure there must be some out there. That could really improve your relationship if you are open to what matters to her.
Christianity should not be a threat to your marriage or your sex life. It should enhance it. Your wife needs healing from something for her to have shut down like this. Working with her, where she is at could bring that kind of healing.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

OP I sent you a message
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

bild-a-loco said:


> In our case, we've had developing issues for years outside of the bedroom, most of which are just basically centered on wife being downright thoughtless towards me and it's finally reached critical mass. The best thing we had going was our sex life.


Is this about the unhappy marriage being the underlying reason why you started to lose interest in the bedroom department?

If you have anger over what she did wrong over the years then this is bound to affect the bedroom.


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