# Confused & Frustrated



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

Let me start off by saying I love my wife more then anything else in the world! I believe she is my soul mate. I won't cheat or leave her I'm with her for better or for worse, but I feel we could be much happier then we are. I'll state my concerns and questions and try to give enough detail, so people can see the whole or at least most of the picture, if anyone has any advise or helpful comments they would be greatly appreciated.

My problem is with our sex life( surprise, surprise I know), we have been married going on 13 years and have 3 kids ranging from 10 to 3. When we first got together she was the best lover I've ever had and from time to time(sometimes months or years in between) that lover still comes out, so I know she's still "got it". We hardly ever have sex and when we do its just not good. When I can finally break her down to have sex, she just lays there, no movement, not one sound, she barely changes her facial expression. This would be great if I had that fetish but unfortunately I don't. Even though she just lays there I know she is getting pleasure out of it, her face, neck and chest turn red, she gets extremely lubricated without help from a "sex lube" and her lower abdomen and her vagina convulse when she orgasms. So I know it's not a matter of her not getting physical pleasure. I enjoy both foreplay and oral sex on her, I focus on her pleasure. I tell her i love her and how beautiful and sexy I think she is all the time. Everyone we know and a lot of people we just meet know how I feel about her, I'm not shy in expressing my feelings for her. I do things for her, express how I feel, leave little notes or texts for her and occasionally buy her things she wants or needs, mostly little things flowers, a coffee from that place she likes, just little things so she knows I think of her. Luckily she is not materialistic and sometimes will get mad for "wasting money" on things(like jewelry and things like that). I treat her with respect and am very caring. I really don't know what else to do. I'm at a loss. It is starting to affect our marriage, were fighting a lot and even though I try hard to do the things I have mentioned sometimes a few months without sex will make me a little cranky, I try not to be but I get on edge and not just with her. I freak out on other people even more, like I said not all the time but come on I'm a man and have needs and desires and several months with no physical contact (not even kissing or cuddling) I get a little on edge. I'm at a loss I will NOT cheat and I don't want a divorce, but I want to be happy in our relationship, I want both of us to be happy. I just have NO idea what else I can do, I'm dumbfounded. So if anybody has any advice, ideas or anything that can help, I'd be eternally grateful....HELP!!!


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

have you considered spicing up the relationship a bit. Maybe have a frank conversation with her regarding any fantasies she'd like to act out. Maybe do some dirty talk, some roleplaying, etc.

The best way to get sex from someone is to open up about it. Tell her you want to pleasure her more and that you love her and want to share more with her. Maybe that'll work.

Good luck!


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

She claims to have no fantasies (think she's lying but...) she likes when I talk dirty but won't do it in return. I ask her if she wants me to go down on her and if it leads to sex great, if not its okay but she says no thank you or not tonight ALL the time. Haven't tried role playing yet or come straight out and tell her I want to please her more (but I honestly thought asking her if she wants me to perform oral sex on her WAS doing that) but never actually came out and said that to her. I will try the role playing and saying that to her, thank you so much for the suggestions. I'm willing to try anything at this point


----------



## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

It sounds like you have a shy one? If she likes dirty talk that's a starting place!!! You have some place to begin...tease her with it...try texting her during the day....get her thinking about sex all during the day.... 

I would also read a couple of books together...."His Needs Her Needs" and "The 5 Love Languages"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Cut out the Alan Alda routine. You're being too complimentary, too nice, too helpful, too passive. She wants you to talk dirty to her. That's a clue. When you beg, she's in charge. When you sulk, she has power over you. You've tried "Mr. Nice" 13 years and it aint working. Would 007 beg a woman for sex? Would Clint Eastwood? If she's not acting like a woman, find someplace else to be. Appear happy, strong, content, but do it elsewhere. Shower, put on your sharpest clothes, your best cologne... and leave for the evening. Hang out someplace fun, preferably where there is an abundance of hot women. Sooner or later your wife will figure out that she has something to lose and if she wishes to stay married, she's going to have to get off her wazoo and act married. You're not giving her any reason to change. She believes you are safely in her bag and she can treat you any old way and you'll just suck it up, sigh a little, and keep her on your gravy train for the rest of her natural life. If you're at work and don't perform the boss doesn't shower you with presents and affection. You get warned and if you don't straighten up, you get replaced. Your wife is getting what she wants out of you. If you let her twist for months on end without meeting her needs, she wouldn't be running around buying you gifts and blowing powder sugar up your wazoo. I know you love her but the only way to keep her is to fix the marriage. That means you both have to get what you need. Tolerating her withholding of sex is every bit as damaging on the relationship as her withholding. Women want security as surely as men want physical sex. An insecure man doesn't offer much security. If you don't naturally feel confident and sexually powerful, you need to learn to pretend.


----------



## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

whats different now with her? you said she had stretches in the past of being a "good lover." Is she taking any medication? Diet changed? Major health issues with her/you or any immediate family members?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Could you go on vacation just the two of you? What does she say about her behavior and attitude toward sex?

Feeling wanted and desired is so important. I'm sorry you are not getting that from her right now.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

Actually I tried the being a ****, the going out threatening to leave bit for several years, just the past few years I've tried the Alan Alda routine(good one btw) things got even worse when I acted like that and everyone told me to try it this way because the other way wasn't working AT ALL! No nothing's changed she's been this way for years on and off but it way more on then off and gets progressively worse. I've been the a$$hole, and the really sensative guy NOTHING works. If I don't bring up sex months and at one point almost 2years went by and she NEVER did anything about it, she could care less when it comes to sex


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

She gets mad or frustrated when I try to talk about sex, not really possible for just the 2of us to go on vacation. She says there's nothing wrong with our sex life but like I said a lot of time can go by and if I don't bring it up neither does she.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

I've just recently became a little insecure about sex, for years I was the "alpha" male but I'm so frustrated with her and the situation it is starting to make me insecure because NOTHING works.


----------



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> She gets mad or frustrated when I try to talk about sex, not really possible for just the 2of us to go on vacation. She says there's nothing wrong with our sex life but like I said a lot of time can go by and if I don't bring it up neither does she.


As a wife who has been in this situation you both need to difuse before the conversation. First of all have her read His Needs-Her Needs-Our Needs and you read it too, you might find there is a key emotional need of hers that you are missing or dismissing, also it will show her some things. This really helped my husband and I to open the lines of communication and the conversation was NOT centered totally around sex, at least not the first half anyway it was about how we had pretty much disconnected, me on a couple of his needs, and him on a couple of mine. We made a pact to work on it and if there was no improvements in 6 months (the D word) was on the table... neither of us wanted that... over a year later, are things perfect no, but they are MUCH better than they used to be... and he is getting what he wants, now if I could just get him to get what I want... everyone says it's stereotypical of a female to want romance, but it is not stereotypical of a man to want sex... go figure... find out through discussing the top 5 needs of men, versus woman (none of them line up) and get information from her that way to get her back engaged in your relationship. Also it is important as woman once we have children, to remember we still need to be wives first. So many fall into the "mother" role, and that is very desexualizing.


----------



## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Cut out the Alan Alda routine. You're being too complimentary, too nice, too helpful, too passive. She wants you to talk dirty to her. That's a clue. When you beg, she's in charge. When you sulk, she has power over you. You've tried "Mr. Nice" 13 years and it aint working. Would 007 beg a woman for sex? Would Clint Eastwood? If she's not acting like a woman, find someplace else to be. Appear happy, strong, content, but do it elsewhere. Shower, put on your sharpest clothes, your best cologne... and leave for the evening. Hang out someplace fun, preferably where there is an abundance of hot women. Sooner or later your wife will figure out that she has something to lose and if she wishes to stay married, she's going to have to get off her wazoo and act married. You're not giving her any reason to change. She believes you are safely in her bag and she can treat you any old way and you'll just suck it up, sigh a little, and keep her on your gravy train for the rest of her natural life. If you're at work and don't perform the boss doesn't shower you with presents and affection. You get warned and if you don't straighten up, you get replaced. Your wife is getting what she wants out of you. If you let her twist for months on end without meeting her needs, she wouldn't be running around buying you gifts and blowing powder sugar up your wazoo. I know you love her but the only way to keep her is to fix the marriage. That means you both have to get what you need. Tolerating her withholding of sex is every bit as damaging on the relationship as her withholding. Women want security as surely as men want physical sex. An insecure man doesn't offer much security. If you don't naturally feel confident and sexually powerful, you need to learn to pretend.


This is an interesting approach. I've been sulking around a lot because my wife uses sex as a weapon. She controls it and when she wants it she usually gets it because I want it that bade. I've changed the tables though and have pretty much ignored her for the past month. Don't touch her or anything. Have you used this method before?


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> As a wife who has been in this situation you both need to difuse before the conversation. First of all have her read His Needs-Her Needs-Our Needs and you read it too, you might find there is a key emotional need of hers that you are missing or dismissing, also it will show her some things. This really helped my husband and I to open the lines of communication and the conversation was NOT centered totally around sex, at least not the first half anyway it was about how we had pretty much disconnected, me on a couple of his needs, and him on a couple of mine. We made a pact to work on it and if there was no improvements in 6 months (the D word) was on the table... neither of us wanted that... over a year later, are things perfect no, but they are MUCH better than they used to be... and he is getting what he wants, now if I could just get him to get what I want... everyone says it's stereotypical of a female to want romance, but it is not stereotypical of a man to want sex... go figure... find out through discussing the top 5 needs of men, versus woman (none of them line up) and get information from her that way to get her back engaged in your relationship. Also it is important as woman once we have children, to remember we still need to be wives first. So many fall into the "mother" role, and that is very desexualizing.



OP find out what she resents in you or what she resents you said or did.

As for those who say "Read XYZ"

Good luck with that.

OP this is between you and your wife... don't accept the unacceptable. Hold her accountable and change the dynamics in your marriage.

I don't buy that mother role stuff either.. its more along the lines of being too comfortable and realizing the power they have. Its a form of cruelty. That's not mothering. Its selfishness.

Its immature and needs to be dealt with like you would a kid who has no clue.

OP your wife will not change until she wants to... guide her there.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Change will occur only if staying the course is more painful than changing. As such, perhaps a concentrated, prolonged reciprocal behavior may help bring the clue to focus.

Mutual Assured Destruction by any other name... Does the OP hold any trump cards or WMD's (weapons of marital destruction) that he can use? 

Some people, as a famous college basketball coach said, are uncoachable...


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It not about sex or orgasms. If it were, she would want sex because she is orgasmic. Orgasms dont always make women crave sex. Her body has an orgasm but it does not touch her heart. 

It is possible that she resents having sex when she does not want. More so that she is made to have an orgasm that she does not desire. You probably should not take the fact that she orgasms as a positive. . 

I know this is not a popular view but you can't argue, coerce, manipulate, guilt, or nice her into having sex. The worse thing you can do is to threaten to leave if you have no intention of doing so. It damages your credibility and it is coersive. It will only damage your relationship further. 

Additionally, don't hang out with hot women, this is a common suggestion. I am not sure why anyone would think that a woman will suddenly get passionate about sex with a man who shows by his behavior that any vj will do. Do you think your wife will happily make herself available to you? 

I think you need to figure out why you have both distanced yourselves. I think you are making a typical mistake by concentrating on sex. There may have been problems that both of you did not address. While you were having sex, it may not registered. When sexual problems occurred, did you pay attention to the wrong thing? Your wife did not communicate about the problems in a way that you could hear. 

Besides sex, what problems have you two overlooked over the years? It may be a series of little things that seem minor to you but engendered anger and resentment for her. Has she asked you repeatedly to do something that you did not do because you did not think it was important? Are things That are important to her seem unimportant to you? 

I am not blaming you but you are here looking for solutions. You say that demands threats, sulking and anger don't move her. Will paying more attention to relationship issues help? Don't do what you think will work to get sex, do what will get you and your wife more connected and on the same page. 

I know that many men think that sex should be a given no matter what other needs are not being met. But that may not be the case for your wife. You said so, sex with no passion is not what you want. What is keeping your wife from being passionate? It is not female evil, it is much closer to home.

You have small children, it seems worth an all out effort to do all you can to get the relationship to the point that your wife will be inspired to feel passion. It should not be all on you but you are here not your wife. You have the burden of getting the ball rolling up hill. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

I've tried over & over to talk about it but she claims she has no problem, that its all me I'm a sex addict because after a few months of not having sex or even touching I bring up sex. That makes me a sex addict? I thought that made me a normal person with a sexual libido! How am I in the wrong for bringing up sex or the lack there of?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

To paraphrase a former President, depends on the definition of sex.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

It's not just about sex, that's only maybe half of it, there's no connection at all, when I say sex(and I have told her this) I mean the intimacy that spark that connection. When I say she doesn't touch me, I don't necessarily mean sex, I mean she does not touch me at all even in non sexual ways, no kissing neither passionate or just loving pecks... It really isn't just the sex it's that closeness, intimacy... It's only there when she wants it, and I don't think that's fair, can I pick and choose when I feel like paying the rent or other bills? No I can't. If it was just sex it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the complete distance she is putting between us.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Would taking the focus off of sex work? What would make two people sit together and have nothing to say?? Two friends would not do that so why would a huband and wife do that? What do you have in common besides kids and family? Do you share interest, or hobbies? Does your wife know what you do at work and do you know what she does? Are you both interested in what the other thinks about what is going on in your world. 

You seem so disconnected, how can you want to have sex? I don't think that sex will make your wife feel connected, do you? Would sex be enough to make you connect to someone with whom you cannot have a one hr conversation in a relaxed environment? I would worry more about the lack of connection than lack of sex, it is not sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

If you read enough of these kinds of posts, you'll see the same pattern and it almost always starts with:

"First off, I believe my wife is my soul mate blah blah blah..." followed by an eleborate justification on why she's not taking advantage of you, which THEN is followed by a pretty lengthy description of how she IS taking advantage of you and being pretty unlovable.

So if you are asking, how do I get out of a hole, without having to stop digging? The answer is that you can't.

Your major mistake is that you've taken the position that she's somehow your soul mate. What if she isn't? What if "soul mate" doesn't exist? What if she's just a woman who's decided being married is easier than not being married and that if she can continue to string you along and make you feel sh*tty for perfectly natural desires, she'll continue to enjoy the benefit of marriage, without having to put in too much effort. What if she doens't really love you at all?

Then what? Words without action are complete BS. You know it.

The conversation you need to have is: 

"Baby, I used to think you were my soul mate, but I'd doubting that now. I don't feel appreciated, loved, or respected. And the long periods where you don't touch me, and making my sexual needs out to be dirty are emotional damaging to me. We need to talk about how to change this, or if you're not willing to discuss that, then we need to talk about how to end this marriage equitably."

It's either that, or continue to suffer.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> It's not just about sex, that's only maybe half of it, there's no connection at all, when I say sex(and I have told her this) I mean the intimacy that spark that connection. When I say she doesn't touch me, I don't necessarily mean sex, I mean she does not touch me at all even in non sexual ways, no kissing neither passionate or just loving pecks... It really isn't just the sex it's that closeness, intimacy... It's only there when she wants it, and I don't think that's fair, can I pick and choose when I feel like paying the rent or other bills? No I can't. If it was just sex it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the complete distance she is putting between us.


This isn't about right or wrong or fair or unfair. Fair is where you go to eat cotton candy and ride the merry-go-round. This is about what works. Begging, asking, persuading, doing chores, and being an all-around "nice" guy aint working for you. Desire isn't about logic. It's an emotional response that's either there or isn't and is largely beyond our ability to rationally control. You're making yourself undesirable to your wife. We communicate more with our actions than our words. Your actions communicate to your wife that you are weaker than her, subservient to her, and you are prepared to tolerate whatever evil she feels like dishing out. Browse through the romance novel section of the book store. These are books for women. See any sensitive accountants wearing aprons on the covers?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> It's not just about sex, that's only maybe half of it, there's no connection at all, when I say sex(and I have told her this) I mean the intimacy that spark that connection. When I say she doesn't touch me, I don't necessarily mean sex, I mean she does not touch me at all even in non sexual ways, no kissing neither passionate or just loving pecks... It really isn't just the sex it's that closeness, intimacy... It's only there when she wants it, and I don't think that's fair, can I pick and choose when I feel like paying the rent or other bills? No I can't. If it was just sex it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the complete distance she is putting between us.


She thinks touching you will lead to sex. She wants to avoid leading you on. No it is not fair that she cuts you off and makes no effort to solve the problems that keep her at arms length. 

You are still getting ahead of yourself I think. Paying the bills does not get you sex. Believe me, your wife knows that the value of what she contributes to the relationship is as much as your employment. You have to support your children and yourself right?

Are you acting on this notion that your employment is more valuable than what she brings to the table? She may be doing the same. Perhaps you are both not appreciating each other and valuing what you do for each other? Take sex out of the equation. Sex in marriage is not a quid pro quo, how do you know you don't owe her for what she does? 

You are not looking just for sex but intimacy, you want to be closer to her. But you have to find out why she does not want to be emotionally closer to you. Asking her may not get you the answer. Having sex will not make her feel closer to you. 

If you wife could express herself freely, what do you think she would say about the relationship? Have you honestly looked at relationship issue that have nothing to do with sex that might have pushed you two apart? What do you argue about besides sex? What have you both lleft unresolved besides sex? 

There are a number of reasons that she may not tell you what is wrong. She may have told you about problems before and you did not hear or act? You both have traded hurtful barbs and did not apologize adequately? She may have given up trying to get hr needs met? Again, I am not blaming you, it is never one person. 

But you are asking so it may be helpful to concentrate on things other than sex. Your wife does not think lack of sex is the problem in the relationship. What would she say if she was sure that you would not hear?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> This isn't about right or wrong or fair or unfair. Fair is where you go to eat cotton candy and ride the merry-go-round. This is about what works. Begging, asking, persuading, doing chores, and being an all-around "nice" guy aint working for you. Desire isn't about logic. It's an emotional response that's either there or isn't and is largely beyond our ability to rationally control. You're making yourself undesirable to your wife. We communicate more with our actions than our words. Your actions communicate to your wife that you are weaker than her, subservient to her, and you are prepared to tolerate whatever evil she feels like dishing out. Browse through the romance novel section of the book store. These are books for women. See any sensitive accountants wearing aprons on the covers?


A woman not having sex is dishing out evil? If relationship problems they both have a part in causes her to disconnect and not want sex is her action evil? I guess if sex were the most important aspect in the relationship you could see it that way. But clearer heads might see sexual problems as a symptom and not the problem. 

Frustrated if you think your wife's behavior is evil then I think the lack of sex may have already killed what love you had for her. You cannot love someone who is evil to you. If you are not in love with her, why bother to have sex? It is the easy and dysfunctional to ignore possible problems to which you both contribute in favor of calling her evil. 

I really don't understand why anyone could manage to get pleasure out of sex with someone who is evil to them. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I have said as much in previous posts. Basically she's happy with things being where they are for her so why change?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

John are your kids older? If she is self centered what are you getting out of having a relationship with her? Any relationship is an exchange of satisfactions. What satisfaction are you getting? Sex is not enough of an investment to me. 

If your kids are well on their way, perhaps pulling out all of the stops and giving your marriage 6 -9 months to turn around. Tell you wife that oh are too unhappy to keep going the way things are going and tell her of the timeframe.

Don't let inertia stop you. If this is a miserable existence then you will look back in a yr or two and wonder why you didn't leave sooner. Go to MC and IC for you. If you have done all you can then you can get out with a clear conscious. You cannot nice a selfish person into to giving in a relationship. You are throwing treasures down a black hole. 

Never take D off of the table. Plan - look at finances carefully, living arrangement , minor children etc. if things work out good if not you are prepared to pull the plug.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Lets just set aside the whole women are evil if they do not have sex. Sex for some cannot be divorced from feeling if my wife does not desire me she will not want to have sex with me, and really as a man I am okay with that. Why? Because I am a great man I do not need a pity fvck. And women have the right and the responsibility to take decide when and if they want to have sex no one needs to guilt or pressure them into it "yes I have tried these things and sometimes they worked yes I got the sex and felt like shyte afterwards give up this tactic".

Now as for the actual problem. Your problem is that for you intimacy is physical that is your love language no intimacy no feelings of love. So let me ask you what is your wifes love language? I read the book 5 Languages of Love just me my wife did not really want to read it and I was fine with that as it was more about self improvement than anything. And I came to the realization me and my wife had been holding each others love language hostage in this great cold war neither of us knew we were playing would of been funny if it was not so sad. You see she wanted quality time and I wanted to me touched, hugged, kissed and yes more sex. So I would be upset because I was not getting what I wanted and do other things or even when I was with her I would focus on other stuff and she would get upset and not touch me! We had fights about this, argument after argument all saying the same damn stuff and you know what I never fvcking listened and neither did she we were so intent on getting out individual needs met that we would only really dip our toe in the other persons love language. Sound like flipping madness now. So I would buy the book and see what her love language is then work on hers for a month not out of trying to get something but genuinely because you love her and want her happy then you move on from there when you get praise you ask her for something specific maybe a kiss good morning every morning or something. For me I talked to my wife about the whole thing and started really working on spending time WITH her as the FOCUS. And she has responded by being there more physically for me.

My guess is that if she is not having sex with you then it is because you are BOTH locked in a bad pattern.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The evilness comes from the motive, if any, not the outcome.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

It really isn't all that much about the sex! She used to be my best friend and even if we went awhile without sex there was still that connection, that passion. I've tried everything I can think of. Being a d/(k, being mr nice guy, talking etc... Last night we had a huge fight for no apparent reason, and in her anger she said something that I think might be the cause of it. And if I'm right it's not me. It's something she's going through, so I think the next thing I'm gonna try is seeing if I can get her to talk to me or if need be a doctor. I'm relieved that it may not have to do with me, but I'm concerned about her.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

Intimacy isn't just about the physical, it's the barely talking. The fact we used to constantly make each other laugh, do things together. That's the biggest problem, and after all this time I believe that maybe I concentrated on the physical more then anything else. I didn't mean to but you guys know that when your horny you think with the wrong head. I'm not the dominate male in our relationship or the p_$$ywhipped husband either. I tried acting like them out of frustration but we've always been equal in the relationship. It's just I think for whatever reason she is going through something she felt she couldn't share with me, which hurt more then the lack of the physical. I think this can be fixed if I can get her to open up to me or someone else. I'm definitely more concerned with her issue then I am about the physical, and even though its not "fixed" yet, I'm no longer frustrated and in the dark.


----------



## Frustrated Hubby (May 26, 2013)

P.s. no I don't think my employment is more important then what she does, I've been a stay at home dad for awhile and I gotta say I'm glad I'm working cause she definitely has the harder job.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There is an "official" version of why things are the way they are physically and the actual reason.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> A woman not having sex is dishing out evil? If relationship problems they both have a part in causes her to disconnect and not want sex is her action evil? I guess if sex were the most important aspect in the relationship you could see it that way. But clearer heads might see sexual problems as a symptom and not the problem.
> 
> Frustrated if you think your wife's behavior is evil then I think the lack of sex may have already killed what love you had for her. You cannot love someone who is evil to you. If you are not in love with her, why bother to have sex? It is the easy and dysfunctional to ignore possible problems to which you both contribute in favor of calling her evil.
> 
> ...


Would a mother who refused to feed her infants be considered evil? She would not only be evil, she would be committing a felony in all 50 states. Would a man who was able to work and support his family but simply refused to do so be considered evil? If my wife were shivering from the cold and I was walking around carrying a coat but not offering it to her, wouldn't that be evil? If I contracted to do specific work and I didn't do the work but I fraudulently kept cashing your checks, anyway, that would not only be evil, it would be a felony.
Refusing to fulfill one's moral obligations when one has the ability to perform is evil. Deliberately dehumanizing another human being and exploiting their labor is basically engaging in slavery and that's evil. Purporting to be something that one isn't is fraud. Daily watching another human being suffer when one has the ability to relieve that suffering is evil. 
If the normally functioning spouse went outside the marriage to have his intimacy/sexual needs met, most here would be quick to paint his actions as evil and it wouldn't matter if he had faithfully dangled on a sexless, loveless cross of his bat of a wife's erection for 20 years.


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Would a mother who refused to feed her infants be considered evil? She would not only be evil, she would be committing a felony in all 50 states. Would a man who was able to work and support his family but simply refused to do so be considered evil? If my wife were shivering from the cold and I was walking around carrying a coat but not offering it to her, wouldn't that be evil? If I contracted to do specific work and I didn't do the work but I fraudulently kept cashing your checks, anyway, that would not only be evil, it would be a felony.
> Refusing to fulfill one's moral obligations when one has the ability to perform is evil. Deliberately dehumanizing another human being and exploiting their labor is basically engaging in slavery and that's evil. Purporting to be something that one isn't is fraud. Daily watching another human being suffer when one has the ability to relieve that suffering is evil.
> If the normally functioning spouse went outside the marriage to have his intimacy/sexual needs met, most here would be quick to paint his actions as evil and it wouldn't matter if he had faithfully dangled on a sexless, loveless cross of his bat of a wife's erection for 20 years.


I agree with all of this til the end. Don't cheat on a sexless marriage. Divorce her.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Lets not get carried away here. Food is a critical need no matter what, while sex, in the eyes of the law, and many LD's of all varieties, is not a 'critical' need.

It is grounds for divorce, but so is being addicted to QVC, body odor, or snoring at night...

Besides, as LD's know (*), it's all about the act, not the quality or frequency. Checklist and all that.

* sarcasm embedded


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Would a mother who refused to feed her infants be considered evil? She would not only be evil, she would be committing a felony in all 50 states. Would a man who was able to work and support his family but simply refused to do so be considered evil? If my wife were shivering from the cold and I was walking around carrying a coat but not offering it to her, wouldn't that be evil? If I contracted to do specific work and I didn't do the work but I fraudulently kept cashing your checks, anyway, that would not only be evil, it would be a felony.
> Refusing to fulfill one's moral obligations when one has the ability to perform is evil. Deliberately dehumanizing another human being and exploiting their labor is basically engaging in slavery and that's evil. Purporting to be something that one isn't is fraud. Daily watching another human being suffer when one has the ability to relieve that suffering is evil.
> If the normally functioning spouse went outside the marriage to have his intimacy/sexual needs met, most here would be quick to paint his actions as evil and it wouldn't matter if he had faithfully dangled on a sexless, loveless cross of his bat of a wife's erection for 20 years.


Perfect recipe for that dreaded "duty sex". And that leads to other things. You are not just asking for the sex, you are asking for her to like it and desire you. Seeing it as a job is not really solving the problem, comparing it to a mother feeding her kids is ludicrous unless you want her to just lay back and think of England.

Let's stop comparing sex to a job, because you don't want her to see it as something to check off on her to-do list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> ...I focus on her pleasure.


This may not seem obvious, but I feel this MAY be a barrier to your wife enjoying sex with you.

(1) Sex, for some women, is about being taken; about being dominated by a strong, masculine man. There's almost a primal, animal quality to the act. 

When your focus is on pleasing her, you turn yourself into the submissive sexual partner. 

You'll notice that a lot of threads that pertain to marriage problems boil down to the husband being too much of a "nice guy." Well, being too much of a nice guy in bed is just as big a problem as being too much of a nice guy in the marriage in general.

BTW, there is a very specific definition of "Nice Guy." It has to do with someone that is too focused on pleasing others. It would be worth your time to spend a little time in the men's forum and figure out if you are suffering from being a "Nice Guy."

(2) Focusing on her makes sex cold, mechanical and unemotional.

Sex should be a moment of shared passion. Is that what she sees in your eyes when you're "focused on pleasing her?" Probably not. You're probably thinking about baseball and what you can do next to make her come. 

Do you think she's inspired to lose all control and abandon herself to her passions by you suppressing your wildness so you can focus on pleasing her? You talk about her being cold, but have you considered that she is matching your emotional level?

(3) This is a covert contract, which is a typical "Nice Guy" mistake.

You go out of your way to please her sexually. You expect her to return the favor. When she doesn't you get mad.

In "Nice Guy" talk that's a covert contract. You've make an agreement--a contract--that both sides are supposed to live up to, but you never told your wife about it. You just assume she should know the conditions of the contract. And, when she fails to keep up her end of the contract, you get angry.


----------



## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> I've tried over & over to talk about it but she claims she has no problem, that its all me I'm a sex addict because after a few months of not having sex or even touching I bring up sex. That makes me a sex addict? I thought that made me a normal person with a sexual libido! How am I in the wrong for bringing up sex or the lack there of?


"Normal" sex is about 3 times a week for most couples, but that obviously varies. Instead of arguing about whether or not you are a sex addict, I would just repeat the stat.

Have you ever told her how often you desire sex--not "more often" but an actual number?

She knows there is a problem, she's just trying to avoid addressing it. Your wife isn't an idiot, she knows that a married couple that only has sex once a month or so has a problem.

Stop arguing about whether or not it's a problem. You know it is, and in her gut she knows it is also.


----------



## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Frustrated Hubby said:


> P.s. no I don't think my employment is more important then what she does, *I've been a stay at home dad for awhile* and I gotta say I'm glad I'm working cause she definitely has the harder job.


Alarm bells ringing all over the place.

Read this article about working women with stat at home husbands: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_9495/index1.html

The money line is this: 


> When Emily comes home, she doesn’t always want to be the boss. But she says her husband no longer has the authority to take over. “I want somebody to take that power role away from me,” she explains. “Ultimately, it gets down to pretty basic stuff. It’s hard to be the power broker every day and then be the femme fatale. *I’m not going to pay the bills—I feel like his mother—and then come home and suck his ****.*”


Similar thoughts are scattered throughout the article. It seems pretty common for breadwinner-wives to have sexual problems with their stay-at-home husbands.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ultimately sex becomes a battle of wills and the LD has the trump card. That by itself feels great if you are keeping score, which some LD's do.


----------



## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

john117 said:


> Ultimately sex becomes a battle of wills and the LD has the trump card. That by itself feels great if you are keeping score, which some LD's do.
> 
> As of January 1st I decided to see what wifey's idea of 'regularity' means. Let's just say that faithfully married merchant marine crew members have more luck than that
> 
> ...


Here WAS my answer. My wife is similar (more LD) in that she simply wants sex when she is in the mood. Outside of that, she doesn't see any reason to have sex. Why have sex when you aren't in the mood, anyway, right?

So what I tried to do was get her in the mood more often. But sometimes that completely backfired. She suspected I was doing things to get her in the mood (which I sort of was and wasn't -- it wasn't only about an ulterior motive but I was honestly also trying to learn how to give her more of the attention she desired, too.)

So when this didn't work (meaning that she appreciated someone my efforts but it didn't really lead to a better sex life) I started thinking about my own sexual needs. If it is true for her to want sex (and almost always get it) when she is in the mood, then it is also true for me, right? I mean, if I'm in the mood for sex, I should have sex, too. I can't help it that I'm HD and I'm in the mood more often. So what I did then was simply have sex when I was in the mood through masturbation (sometimes with porn to make it a bit more exciting). That way when she is in the mood, she gets sex (fair enough) and when I'm in the mood, I get sex (fair enough, right?). After all, it's only fair that when either one of us are in the mood that we can have sex, isn't it? When she isn't in the mood, she doesn't have to have sex that way, and when I'm not in the mood, I don't have to have sex, either. Perfectly fair, and no pressure on either one of us to make the other conform to the drive of the other.

That was my life for 15 years. 

I'm trying a different approach now. I'm trying to be a better man all-the-way-around. I want porn out of my life, and I want my full sexual energy to be focused on my wife. I no longer ask for sex (used to) and I initiate when I want to initiate. If she isn't in the mood, then so be it. I used to get frustrated to the core when she would reject my advances. Now I just blow it off and go work out or do something else. I'm tired of making excuses or the guilt trip. 

Anyway, the answer is out there...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

One assumes an answer is out there. But are the costs of the answer worth it?


----------



## ElegantSAM101 (May 29, 2013)

@Frustrated Hubby. Thanks for saving me hard work of tying my story. I'm in life situation as you are, difference is that I'm married 26 years and my three children are grown ups. I stumbled upon TAM community while researching for ideas/strategies to cope with frustration and despair I'm going through for last many many years for the same reason you came to this place. Lost "connection at deeper level" with my wife. When this happens sex is first to jump out of window. I've looked into many threads here with same theme and up-to now understood one single thing. "Since its my headache, so I need to work on me... Wife is out of equation for the time being." First and fore most is putting the things in perspective, that is where is the problem and who can solve it?

Its informative and interesting discussion going on...I request @Cathrine602 and @unbelievable to keep commenting as they are presenting different perspectives and both are valid. Lets see which one works best for us?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

First of all, determine if the problem is solvable to begin with.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

john117 said:


> One assumes an answer is out there. But are the costs of the answer worth it?
> 
> The big question here is the impact of emotional detachment. If one can follow the MAP (male apathy plan) and largely ignore their partner just as they have been ignored, does this bother them and does it impact their relationship with their children, relatives, and so on?
> 
> ...


You said you wanted to reestablish an intimate connection with your wife, why would you reject her desire to talk? 

I think you passed on a very good chance to let things flow naturally and to show some interest in her as a person. She was not offering sex but she was revealing what she needed from you. 

You were not willing to give her what she needed. Perhaps it will help you to understand that people have no evil intent when they ignore their partners needs. It is just two people at cross purposes that need to get on the same page. 

Sounded like the makings of a very enjoyable evening. Sitting together companionably is an activity that makes many woman feel close to their partner. 

It confirms that you love her and not just what she can do for you sexually. Your disinterest in talking to her on that nice evening possibly confirmed her feeling that "every thing is about sex". 

Having sex will not make her feel close to you. That will not make her feel passion. Enjoying her company and spending non-sexual time with her, may do just that.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Anybody who refuses to discuss an issue in their marriage that is so severe, so crippling to the normal function of the relationship that they now refuse to touch their husband, has serious problems.

Anybody, man or woman who uses "emotional connection" as a crutch to not engage in intimacy with their spouse will end up with a very sad story in the coping with infidelity section. And everybody will gang up and call their WS a scumbag etc etc etc. Meanwhile nobody will understand the magnitude of the torture in living in a house with the person you love, when he or she doesn't love you enough to correct her sex problem.

I know it won't be a popular view but I don't care. I'm living it. Every day of my life. I see it in her face. Sex is a tool to people like this. It's got nothing to do with an emotional slight that probably happened years ago. The person is bitter, and rancid inside. Their core is corrupt. And further to that point, why doesn't the person who refuses to show intimacy just leave? Why is it on the normal drive partner to make the choice? The answer is simple. THe person who is refusing intimacy is happy doing so. They take some sort of perverse pleasure out of making the other person suffer. And as previously stated, staying is so much more convenient than leaving.

So OP, your wife will NEVER EVER leave this situation. She will be content to remain in this marriage while you suffer trying to get scraps of intimacy from her. She knows you're not a sex addict. She knows exactly what she'd doing to you. She just doesn't care.


----------



## ElegantSAM101 (May 29, 2013)

@sinnester. Please say what OP and SW stands for? Is there a list of Acronyms availible. Please ignore my un awareness to these term. I'm a novice here. Thanks.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

sinnister said:


> Anybody who refuses to discuss an issue in their marriage that is so severe, so crippling to the normal function of the relationship that they now refuse to touch their husband, has serious problems.
> 
> Anybody, man or woman who uses "emotional connection" as a crutch to not engage in intimacy with their spouse will end up with a very sad story in the coping with infidelity section. And everybody will gang up and call their WS a scumbag etc etc etc. Meanwhile nobody will understand the magnitude of the torture in living in a house with the person you love, when he or she doesn't love you enough to correct her sex problem.
> 
> ...


Sinnester That's the point. For many woman, the emotional connection is intimacy. What should she do if she does not feel sexually attracted to her husband because she feels a distant?

Someone has to move towards the other. When I had problems in my marriage, I found out that I did not understand my husbands needs by reading books and joining this site. I had to be open to seeing my mistakes. 

It has not been easy nor instant. I keep my goals in sight. I want to make a good man and myself happy. I want a good happy home for our children. I was not interested in being right, that did not make anyone happy. 

I admitted that I was wrong. He contributed to the problems but I could only deal with my role. I admitted my fault. I was the one who instituted changes. 

Would you be willing to look at your relationship with an eye towards examining problems that may have contributed to the sexual problems? 

Try reading about relationships and the different needs of men and women. Believe it and accept it. Then act on it. It will not hurt to try. If it does not work, you are no worse off.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

95% suffering is not worth the 5% in pleasure.


----------



## ElegantSAM101 (May 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Sinnester That's the point. For many woman, the emotional connection is intimacy. What should she do if she does not feel sexually attracted to her husband because she feels a distant?
> 
> Someone has to move towards the other. When I had problems in my marriage, I found out that I did not understand my husbands needs by reading books and joining this site. I had to be open to seeing my mistakes.
> 
> ...


@Cathrine602...This is right I can't understand my wife's needs by reading book or joining sites. She is the best person to talk about it. Issue is she in my case is not ready to talk on this subject, (perhaps she herself is not clear in her mind)...her excuse is "I've never thought about it". I feel reading books and talking in these forums only help to clear our own head...
Gladly I say I read couple of articles from people in similar situations last night those personal experiences gave me more insight than observational material written by authors...
I believe in issues of sensual mismatches the "other party" is the one... least interested...Isn't this matter of priorities and attitudes?


----------

