# Am I crazy? Is she having an EA?



## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Hey everyone, I’m going crazy and need your opinions about whether I’m paranoid and imagining things, or if I really have a reason to be concerned and upset.

Here’s my story. Sorry I know it’s long.…

About a month ago I noticed something was off with my wife so I asked her if something was wrong. She ended up telling me that she wasn’t very happy and that she felt like the spark was missing between us. We’d been happily married (I thought) for 16 years and the dynamic of our relationship hadn’t changed at all recently. She asked me to give her some space and time to figure things out and wanted me to be patient with her.
Something about the whole situation just didn’t feel right to me. I had a pit in my stomach that told me there was some outside influence involved and it just wouldn’t go away, so even though I didn’t feel good about it I started to do some snooping. 

I looked at her cell phone records and found out that she was texting and calling a male friend of hers (We’ll call him John) quite often over the past two months. There were roughly 300 text messages exchanged between them over a 30 day period and only 100 to me during that same time. There was only about an hour of phone calls during that time, but he works at the health club where she works out 5 days a week so I know she sees him in person regularly.

Well one night she and some girlfriends went to a Halloween costume party at the health club (I wasn’t invited because she said none of the other husbands wanted to go. At least they got asked) and the next day I noticed that she had traded several text messages with John that night and had a 25 minute conversation with him ending around 1 A.M. which was around the time she arrived home. This had my radar going off so when I saw an opening the next morning I took a look at her phone. All of the texts to/from John had been deleted, but everything was still there for all her other contacts. I looked at a conversation she had with her best girlfriend that went something like this.

GF: “Hey what happened to you? I turned around and you were gone”
W: “It was getting silly and just had to get out of there. No funny business w/bb”

Now this confused me because John’s initials are not BB and now I’m wondering who the heck BB is.

Fast forward a couple of days… My family was visiting from out of town and got tickets to go to a college football game so I went with them and two of my sons. My wife and other son went over to our friend’s house to watch the game and hang out. Later that night my friend calls me and tells me he’s worried about my wife driving and that I should come and pick her up. When I get there it’s just my friend, John, and the kids that are left at the party. My friend is very drunk, but my wife honestly seems to be fine. We chat for a while and then finally get out the door to head home. After a brief conversation my wife insists that she is fine to drive and that she doesn’t want to leave her car there and have to come back for it the next day. I agree and load my son into my car and start heading for home. I was going to follow her but she was just sitting in her car with the lights on and not moving for while so I finally decide to just go on ahead. As I pass her I notice in the rear view that she has a headlight out. I put the car in reverse and back up next to her and get her to roll the window down. When I ask what she’s doing she says “nothing, I was just getting a piece of candy from the glove box”. I told her that her headlight was out and that it’s best if she just come home with me and not chance anything. She proceeds to get really defensive and almost refuses to believe me about the headlight until I get out and physically show her. After we got home she barely spoke to me and went to bed without saying a word.
Well I looked at the phone records the next day and what do you know. At the exact time she was sitting in the car there was a text to John. When I looked at her phone later that morning that text and his reply had already been deleted.

A couple of days later I was looking at her messages again and she had sent the following to her best friend

W: “Missed you today! And no BB either! Call me later”

That was it. I confronted her about it later that night. I told her what I had done and that I wanted to know who BB was. She told me that BB was short for “Back Burner” and that it was a nickname her friends had given to John. She said it was because they thought that John had a thing for her and it was just something they like to tease her with. She said that there is nothing going on and that he is just a friend. She then blew up at me for invading her privacy and not trusting her. She said that she was incredibly hurt and pissed off that I would do such a thing. Somehow I ended up feeling like the bad guy and apologizing for snooping on her. I never even got to ask her about the night of the football game or why she immediately deletes all the texts to/from him.

It’s now been about a week since the confrontation and things have actually been good. It feels like we are back to our old selves, but I still have those lingering questions tugging at me and the pit in my stomach is still there on most days. I just can’t seem to get these questions out of my head.

What do they talk about in all of these conversations? 
Why did she lie to me about the text message in her car that night after the party? 
Why did she so diligently delete all the messages to/from him while and not do the same for others?

These questions are driving me nuts, but honestly I’m afraid to bring it up because I know it will just cause more conflict between us when we seem to have turned a corner. Am I just a giant wimp and putting off the inevitable?

Thanks in advance for any and all insights and advice.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

And i suppose she still sees john at the gym?

WAKE UP!

Tell her you are concerned about her idea of marriage. ASK tough questions. Accept no blame for trying to protect your family.

She needs to drop her gym membership AND her accomplices - the ones she calls 'friends'.

They are no friends to your family.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well you know going to that health club is going to end. She has to go nc period. No deleting texts. Take half the money out if you have a joint bank acct. and set one in your name.The toxic friends have to go and expose to friends and family. Tell it's either me or him.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Bad place to be in.

I dont know how you take this to be EA only. Why not PA?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, you confronted too soon, but that's OK. What you need to do now is go stealth and gather evidence. There's an evidence gathering thread in CWI somewhere I'll try to link for you - you may be able to recover her deleted texts and/or put some kind of keylogger on her phone. I would also suggest a VAR in her car. Also investigate her computer - a keylogger on it is a good idea.

Gather the evidence, keep posting on here, and DO NOT confront her again till you have incontrovertible PROOF of what she's up to. Read the newbie link in my sig and whatever else you can find in CWI and harden your heart. you need to take a stand if you have any hope of reconciling with her. She is going to DENY DENY DENY - there's a script that all cheaters follow and so far yours is bang on.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

*Here are the answers you seek:*

What do they talk about in all of these conversations? 

*Probably her marriage, kids, sex and next meeting up locations. Even just Hi and I miss you.*

Why did she lie to me about the text message in her car that night after the party? 

*She is hiding him because she feels guilty. That means she knows that she is doing something wrong.*

Why did she so diligently delete all the messages to/from him while and not do the same for others?

*She is hiding him because she feels guilty. That means she knows that she is doing something wrong.*

These questions are driving me nuts, but honestly I’m afraid to bring it up because I know it will just cause more conflict between us when we seem to have turned a corner. Am I just a giant wimp and putting off the inevitable?

*Sorry but yes. I would have told her to knock the behavior off a long time ago. You need to start digging for more information. Go through her facebook, emails and phone. If there in no information there then have her followed. Once you have your information....strike. You then get to wait for her to decide if she is going to come clean. And I am sorry but any wife that knows a relationship makes her man uncomfortable (ecspecially of the oppisite sex) should get rid of the other person without a second thought. 

You might also want to call John and start asking why he feels it is okay to chat up a married woman.*

Thanks in advance for any and all insights and advice.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ted-evidence-gathering-thread.html#post886718


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You should go to the health club and have a friendly conversation with this John character and ask him if he likes his job.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

tom67 said:


> You should go to the health club and have a friendly conversation with this John character and ask him if he likes his job.


If he does that he tips his hand and the wife will just go even farther underground. I think he should act like everything is fine and just gather evidence for now. 

Do you know if John is married?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Oh, by the way another clue that this is bad is the fact that her friends call him "Back Burner". That is the same as calling him a boyfriend. They have more insight then you do right now and they know that she is romantically attracked to "John".


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> If he does that he tips his hand and the wife will just go even farther underground. I think he should act like everything is fine and just gather evidence for now.
> 
> Do you know if John is married?


Good point but he already has the amount of texts the only other option is for someone to follow her for 2 to 3 days (pi) and see what happens but he has to nip this soon imo.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

tom67 said:


> Good point but he already has the amount of texts the only other option is for someone to follow her for 2 to 3 days (pi) and see what happens but he has to nip this soon imo.


He doesn't know if it's EA or PA or both or if there's more than the one guy. He needs more info, especially if he wants to try R. He needs to know what he is contemplating forgiving her for. And what he's demanding that she stop doing, when he does. So he can check up and make sure she's following through.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sir, I have been here for a long time and have read this same story time and again.

need space = need time with other man to see if he's worth leaving you for.

Just friends = I'm having an affair.


I can also tell you that this is an addiction for your wife and plus the fact that John see's your wife everyday at the health center there little affair has cooled off until your wife gets you off the cent.

Things are good now, the texting is cooled off......give it some time and when it starts up again, keep your cool, investigate, gather proof, then this time have an effective confrontation with un deniable proof.

It sucks man but you are just going to have to wait, cuz as of now the only thing you got is just friend bull crap. Playing hard ball won't work.

But when you do get the smoking gun and have a copy then you can expose and confront and hopefully your wife will take the steps to save her marriage and learn how to affair proof it.


Right now you could ask her quit the health club, but with out proof she will rewrite history and make you out to be the controlling bad guy just like she did before.

But with solid proof she loose the leg that she is currently standing on.

Make sence?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Realy simple her.......spouse don't hide/delete crap if they have nothing to hide.

I suggest you act normal, lead her on that all is good again and wait!

Even though texting is her MO....You must get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and plant it in her car...don't forget the velcro tape.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What phone does she have ? You can recover deleted texts easily on most phones today.

She will take this affair underground. You are being blindsided. Your gut is most likely right. You need to go even more undercover than her ad next time do not confront her before you have enough evidence.

Keylog the home computer. You can also VAR her car if you want to.

Don't let your spouse find out that you post here

Oh...bb stands for "babe" in short


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Simple kind of man said:


> Hey everyone, I’m going crazy and need your opinions about whether I’m paranoid and imagining things, or if I really have a reason to be concerned and upset.
> 
> Here’s my story. Sorry I know it’s long.…
> 
> ...


You say things have gotten better in the last week. Do you think she might just be doing a better job at "faking" it?? I assume you havent checked her phone records since you felt guilty about it, since you confronted her? If you havent, you should. And dont forget that there are other apps that you can put on your phone to text with that it doesnt show on your phone bill.

I think I'd start going to the gym....you dont have to say anything or do anything, just let your presence be known!!


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

I definitely don't think this is a PA. John is not a stranger to me, he is someone we've known for years but nothing more than an acquaintance to me. He is however very good friends with on of my buddy's (the one whose house my wife was at for the football game). I know him to be a very moral and religious man so I would be very surprised if this is something physical.

If my wife has gone underground she will go way underground. I have a computer engineering degree and work as an IT director so she knows she would never be able to hide anything from me on our computers. She's a smart cookie (one of the many things I love about her) and if she is actively trying to hide something from me it will take some serious detective work on my part to catch it.

I hear what you all are saying, but I have some serious reservations about continued snooping. What if this really is nothing? If I continue to snoop and get caught then I may do irreparable damage to the relationship. I don't want to put my marriage at risk if there is a possibility that this is just my own paranoid delusions.

Why shouldn't I just sit down with her now and ask her the questions I should have the first time around? Shouldn't I at least give her an opportunity to explain and gauge her reaction?


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> Oh, by the way another clue that this is bad is the fact that her friends call him "Back Burner". That is the same as calling him a boyfriend. They have more insight then you do right now and they know that she is romantically attracked to "John".


That's the one that really killed me. Even if this was something her friends started why would she condone it and actively use it?


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> If he does that he tips his hand and the wife will just go even farther underground. I think he should act like everything is fine and just gather evidence for now.
> 
> Do you know if John is married?


He is not married. He's been divorced for many years and dates quite a bit, but never anything very serious or long term. My wife is 41 I'm 36 and he is probably around 45.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

"Why shouldn't I just sit down with her now and ask her the questions I should have the first time around? Shouldn't I at least give her an opportunity to explain and gauge her reaction? "

NO! Don't give her a chance to 'explain' anything. 

PLEASE do some more reading. Unless you have proof, cheaters LIE. They lie and lie and lie, and they blameshift and make you think YOU are the one doing something wrong (like snooping!)

Religious people cheat ALL THE TIME. That has no bearing on what he's capable of.

Is he married?

You're an IT guy - there's no way you should get caught, am I right?? The VAR in the car is a must - she's talking to him on her phone in there, that may be all you need to hear.

What do you want? R or D?


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What phone does she have ? You can recover deleted texts easily on most phones today


It was an old LG vu CDMA phone. I tried accessing it with BitPim to try and recover some of the texts without any luck.

Unfortunately the day of the confirmation we upgraded her to an iPhone (Been planning it for a while) and she has subsequently put a password on it so I can't get in. I could easily crack the password but she won't let the thing out of her sight for more than 2 minutes.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What do they talk about in all of these conversations? *Could be anything. Could be the weather, what underwear she's wearing, their last work out, his ex, you, how long his penis is. You have NO idea right now.*
Why did she lie to me about the text message in her car that night after the party?*Because she was caught doing something she knew she shouldn't be and she was in damage control mode - to minimize your suspicions*
Why did she so diligently delete all the messages to/from him while and not do the same for others?*because she knows if you see them the sh!t will hit the fan*


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So, give it a time limit on how long you choose to snoop. Then remove the stuff if there is no reason to suspect her..



> Why shouldn't I just sit down with her now and ask her the questions I should have the first time around? Shouldn't I at least give her an opportunity to explain and gauge her reaction?


If she is a cheater and could betray you so much, lying wouldn't be a problem either. 
Just read some of the stories around this forum. You cannot believe the extent of betrayal that goes in some relationships. Spouses cheating with family friends, pastors, best friend's spouses, marriage counselors..And most of these cases,the spouse cheated on regrets for not noticing the very obvious red flags(like you) which only let the affair continue with in much more secret. 

Read this thread 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html


The fact is, no one marries someone they couldn't trust. Every spouse is shocked by their SO's betrayal. One common mistake most BS do is to think they have a unique situation, inspite of red flags waving right in their face.

She is indeed a smart cookie. She knew to delete the texts immediately after reading them. She knew how to guilt you for invasion of privacy and make you apologize(another common theme with cheaters)

Again, get her deleted texts somehow and read some other popular threads on here, even if it is to educate yourself. If this indeed turned out to be an affair, your family will be destroyed permanently.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> It was an old LG vu CDMA phone. I tried accessing it with BitPim to try and recover some of the texts without any luck.
> 
> Unfortunately the day of the confirmation we upgraded her to an iPhone (Been planning it for a while) and she has subsequently put a password on it so I can't get in. I could easily crack the password but she won't let the thing out of her sight for more than 2 minutes.


The red flags are hitting you in your face. But if she uses imessage , you cannot recover the messages.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What about your sex life ? have you noticed a difference ?


And do you know about VARs ?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> It was an old LG vu CDMA phone. I tried accessing it with BitPim to try and recover some of the texts without any luck.
> 
> Unfortunately the day of the confirmation we upgraded her to an iPhone (Been planning it for a while) and she has subsequently put a password on it so I can't get in. I could easily crack the password but she won't let the thing out of her sight for more than 2 minutes.


HUGE red flags here. HUGE.

She is gaslighting you. Please read this link

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

especially

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html#post498294

and

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-2.html#post494279


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> What do you want? R or D?


I want a loving and fulfilling relationship with my wife. Right now I just can't imagine a life without her and want to understand if there is something going on why she let it happen. What is it about our relationship that wasn't meeting her needs?


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

You need to make her understand that you will do ANYTHING to protect the marriage, and if she doesn't put john in his place then you will. This man is dominating you because you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, bad move. BTW, Back burner means that he is next in line. Sorry.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> I want a loving and fulfilling relationship with my wife. Right now I just can't imagine a life without her and want to understand if there is something going on why she let it happen. What is it about our relationship that wasn't meeting her needs?


It has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact she's a selfish liar. Honestly. That sounds harsh but it's true. 

She's cheating on you. The marriage you had is over. Gone, done with. She's killed it. You can NOT go back. If you want to have a relationship with her, it has to start from ground zero and be built completely anew.

The problems in your marriage before she cheated are on both of you, and if you want to stay with her they will need to be worked on. But those problems are totally separate from her choice to cheat. Thinking otherwise allows her to blame you for what she did.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

jfv said:


> *You need to make her understand that you will do ANYTHING to protect the marriage,* and if she doesn't put john in his place then you will. This man is dominating you because you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, bad move. BTW, Back burner means that he is next in line. Sorry.


Totally disagree with the bolded part. Totally. The best thing you could do, actually, would be to gather your evidence and when you know exactly what she did, kick her to the curb. Yes, really. Totally counter intuitive, but it works. There's many examples on here, including my own story (link in sig - have a read)


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

While you are reading the thread above read this one too:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-best-friend-having-least-ea.html#post933720

This was another best friend who would never do anything like that to hurt his buddy. But he was screwing the wife for years. Years.

Why do you and your wife expect there to be privacy in marriage? Nothing is private from my wife, nothing of hers is private from me. You guys grind your privates together, why is anything else private?

Here's the thing. You need to demand full transparancy. Will she like it? No. Is she willing to divorce you over it? You know what, if she is, then file for divorce. If she mentions the D word, then you file for her. You don't have to actually go through with it. Just file and watch her tune change. She's a cake eater, she doesn't want to lose you.

If she doesn't want to go transparent with you then Mr. IT Director, Mr. IT Manager here is telling you that you need to start collecting data. First thing you do is ACT NORMAL. Nothing is going on. You believe her and all is well.

Then you need to install a keylogger on the computer she uses most often. If it's a company laptop then you're SOL. If it's your home computer you're good.

You say she uses an iPhone? Get her to back up her iPhone on a computer you have access to. You can recover texts on the backup on the computer.

Buy a couple of VARs. Put one under her driver's seat (think heavy duty velcro) and check it every couple of days. Put another one in a room she goes to when she talks on the phone.

Look for a burner phone. She might have one hidden in her glove compartment. That was the candy she was looking for possibly.

Yes, you are kind of being a wimp about this. Do you want your wife or not? Do you want to her to have an open marriage where she gets to date this guy and you pay for those dates? Is she worth fighting for. 

Go into this expecting it was a full blown PA. I don't care if they guy is Christian or is even a pastor. There are a lot of Christian guys and gals on TAM that were in affairs. I am Christian myself and I know we are just as prone to sinful behavior as anyone. So bottom line prepare yourself for the worst. 

If it's not that bad they you have time to salvage this. If it is that bad you need to already have a plan in place. So right now while you are not hurt or upset, plan on what you will do if you find out this was a PA. Then do not deviate on that plan. Run the plan by us so we can make suggestions. 

Best of Providence on whatever you decide.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So your wife gets defensive for confirming or disproving you loyality.

She keeps her cell phone close.

Her phone is password protected.

Na, she has nothing to hide and you nuts, you don't need to protect your self from more deciet and lies, you have a very open and honest marriage.........REALLY!!!!!!!!!!


Again spouse don't get mad when they have nothing to hide, in fact they laugh and hand over there passwords and leave their cell phones out. Your wife on the other hand has to have her privacy...why?


If someone was being this secritive...say a business partner or even ones child would it be wise to protect ones self by investigating there commitment to you and there loyality, or even there own safety?

Maybe this is over the top, but it might be time to get your self tested for STD's.

You know damb well she is hidding something and doesn;t diserve your trust, but yet you are affraid of what your wife will do if you find the truth.

Your wife should be more worried about what you will do to her if you find the truth...but she has your number and will continue to hide her cheating until you man up and confront her with undeniable proof.

There will be a time when you get tired of sharing your wife and her secret life..by then it may have gotten phyical. I mean it may not even be with John. Hell with her lack of boundries and disrespect she has towards you......it could be anybody. 

Get proof of her unhealthy behavior and confront her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need a voice activated recorder in her car NOW!

What did she dress up as for the party? I'm guessing something over the top and sexy?

The message from that night reveals your wife ducked out of the party early before coming home late. I'm thinking a nice hookup opportunity with John.

Your very naive if you think John is too moral to hook up with your wife. I'm betting they already have based on her actions.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, say you had an employee that isn't putting out the quality or volume of work that they did at one time. What would you think of that employee if they refused to show you what they had been doing with their time? Would you not confront them for fear they would quit? Or would you threaten to demote or fire them if they didn't start cooperating?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Simple kind of man said:


> I want a loving and fulfilling relationship with my wife. Right now I just can't imagine a life without her and want to understand if there is something going on why she let it happen. What is it about our relationship that wasn't meeting her needs?


You need to confront her with black and white proof that shows her how shameful she is behaving, then the both of you can face this cancer and address her problem.

Its been my experience that my wife wouldn't face her issues until I confronted her with proof that she had unhealthy behaviors.

She couldn't face her shameful and humiliating life style. Once she saw the reality of it she finaly faced her drinking her adultory and worked on her self. My wife learned the tools to be a healthy emotional person that can handle the tough issues in life with out being validated by other men other then her husband.


My point is you have 50% of the marriage problems, but your wife has 100% of her distructive behavior.

You have 2 issues here...1) a problomatic marriage and 2) her behavior and why she choose to do the things that aren't good for her and her family. 



Until you can show her she has an issue then she will never face the issue. Until you show her the consequences she will continue. Why should she face any consequences when in her mind she is doing nothing wrong and it is all you?


How can you get your wife to see that she is sabotaging her marriage if she won't admit to her own issues?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> You need to confront her with black and white proof that shows her how shameful she is behaving, then the both of you can face this cancer and address her problem.
> 
> Its been my experience that my wife wouldn't face her issues until I confronted her with proof that she had unhealthy behaviors.
> 
> ...


Tell her for starters to take the pw off the phone if she gets all defensive, you have your answer. like others have said there is no privacy in marriage except the bathroom. Get some vars now 1 in the car 1 in the bedroom maybe 1 around the kitchen phone good luck.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

What do you have to be afraid of?

That your wife is cheating on you.

That it is only emotional. Sure. Just kissing. Sure.

That she is lying to you.

That she texts him 3x as much as you.

That she makes you out to be the bad guy but she sees this guy 5x week and on her girls nights out or at the halloweenie party.

Oh you have nothing to be worried about at all. Sure.

Wake up IT Man. 

Follow everyone's advice. Retrieve her deleted texts and put a VAR in her car.

At the very least your wife is a big fat liar.

That is what you should be worrying about.

Stop worrying about how she treats you.

HM64


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It is better that you take some action than no action.

Ask her why she deletes all texts with John and not with anyone else.

Ask her why she was texting John while in the car after after party when you noticed the headlight out.

Ask her any other questions about her behavior and texts.

Ask her to give you the password to her phone and to let you see it whenever you want. Why do you believe your wife's phone messages should be secret from you? (or yours from her?) Do you keep a password on your phone and hide it from your wife?

ASK HER WHAT SHE WOULD THINK IF THE SITUATION WAS REVERSED?

Out here in cyberspace, we already know that your wife is having at least an emotional affair with John that likely soon will go physical. The "no funny business" quoute from her text to a girlfriend means that your wife has discussed fooling around with John and is open to it. Given what you say about John being very religious and moral, it may very well be that your wife is the one doing the pursuing of John, and he is trying to keep his distance. 

In my experience, there is not a single man who can run fast enough to escape a woman who is pursuing him for sex. If you allow your wife to keep chasing him, she will catch him. Assuming that is what is going on. 

But she definitely has a thing for John. You KNOW this. That's why you posted here, you are looking for someone, anyone, to validate your wishful thinking that something is not going on. You KNOW something is.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Have a talk with her tonight give me the password now !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Will_Kane said:


> ASK HER WHAT SHE WOULD THINK IF THE SITUATION WAS REVERSED?


Exactly. In fact, if you want to have a little fun while you are gathering evidence.. 

Start texting someone at work. Maybe one of your direct reports. Make up a stupid cover story as to why. Be very secretive about your phone while you are doing it. Delete the texts right afterwards. Start going back to the gym. Come home late and make up phony excuses as to why you were late. Tell her you are going on a guys night out. Make sure you tell her someone she knows will be there. Go somewhere by yourself and have fun. Make sure you keep a receipt or something that can prove you were where ever you went. You'll need it for proof later. Don't come home until really late. Again, give her a lame excuse. When she checks with the mutual friend he will say you never got together with them that night.

See what her reaction is.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Simple kind of man said:


> I want a loving and fulfilling relationship with my wife. Right now I just can't imagine a life without her and want to understand if there is something going on why she let it happen. What is it about our relationship that wasn't meeting her needs?


You will not find that out, until you determine what she is up to. That is why you need to dig. Do me a favor and sit down with her tonight. Ask her to sit right in front of you and to hand over her phone. Then ask for the password. If she even slightly blanches then you have confirmation that something is really amiss.

If you are unwilling to find more evidence, then just flat out tell her you do not want her talking with him. The most important part of a marriage is communication. Start doing it now.

Being "religious" do not make someone a good person. Check out the post about a pasture that commited adultry.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sandc is right time to go out and get mysterious make her think
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

in case anyone missed "bb" means babe in text speak..

backburner is something she came up with in the moment


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> in case anyone missed "bb" means babe in text speak..
> 
> backburner is something she came up with in the moment


More specifically it seems to mean "baby"

Note that it can also mean bare back.

Just sayin'.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Well one night she and some girlfriends went to a Halloween costume party at the health club (I wasn’t invited because she said none of the other husbands wanted to go. At least they got asked) and the next day I noticed that she had traded several text messages with John that night and had a 25 minute conversation with him ending around 1 A.M. which was around the time she arrived home. This had my radar going off so when I saw an opening the next morning I took a look at her phone. All of the texts to/from John had been deleted, but everything was still there for all her other contacts. I looked at a conversation she had with her best girlfriend that went something like this.
> 
> GF: “Hey what happened to you? I turned around and you were gone”
> W: “It was getting silly and just had to get out of there. No funny business w/bb”


And this could be that she left the party long before 1AM but it could be innocent too..

Point is, you need to find out


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Let me ask you all this. 

If it turns out that all of the communication that her and John had together was completely platonic and nothing that she wouldn't have discussed with one of her female friends, is it still an emotional affair?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> Let me ask you all this.
> 
> If it turns out that all of the communication that her and John had together was completely platonic and nothing that she wouldn't have discussed with one of her female friends, is it still an emotional affair?


If that's how it turns out I will eat my socks and post a picture of myself doing so.

Yes it's an EA. Opposite sex friends can never be as close as same sex friends IMO. Women are too emotionally involved, and men eventually want sex.

Read this book

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Women can be in EA's with women. I will dine with Hope if you turn out to be correct.

Hope, I'll bring the Srirachi sauce.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As long as she can't be open with you it is an EA. She is cheating you out of an emotional connection by having it with John. Hell she shares more with her girl friends then with you...and that is not good!

If this was remotely platonic, there would be no deleted text, no password protection and she wouldn't need to guard her cell with her life.

What she is doing is so wrong and she knows it ...hence the hiding. This is exciting and taboo, she knows you will be pissed if you say what she was texting.

Guilt free spouse do not hide!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> Unfortunately the day of the confirmation we upgraded her to an iPhone (Been planning it for a while) and she has subsequently put a password on it so I can't get in. I could easily crack the password but she won't let the thing out of her sight for more than 2 minutes.


 When your wife and her friends call the other man "back burner", you know right there that her relationship with the other man (OM) is more that just friends. The fact that her and her friends embrace the term "back burner" for the OM is flat out disrespectful to you and your marraige. Man up now and demand full transparency. You have a right to her phone password. If she has nothing to hide then she must prove it. You have more than enough for a reasonable person to be suspicious. She is being unreasonable to expect you to let this continue. As your spouse she has a duty to make you feel safe in your marraige, and her relationship with this OM is not making you feel safe. And take back your apology for probing. You have a duty to protect your marraige when it is threatened. 

The fact is that she is having at least an emotional affair with the OM. In your first post you stated that "I looked at a conversation she had with her best girlfriend that went something like this.

GF: “Hey what happened to you? I turned around and you were gone”
W: “It was getting silly and just had to get out of there. No funny business w/bb”" 

This tells you that she left the party with the other man (OM). The fact that your wife felt the need to tell her friend that their was no "funny business" speaks volumes about the inappropriateness of her relationship with the OM. Additionally, that fact that you were not invited to the party by your wife so that she could spend it with the OM also speaks volumes.

Read "Not Just Friends" today. It will let you know what is really going on between your wife and the OM.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> If it turns out that all of the communication that her and John had together was completely platonic and nothing that she wouldn't have discussed with one of her female friends, is it still an emotional affair?


 If she is getting much of her platonic emotional needs satisfied by this other man (OM), then absolutely yes. Read "His Needs, Her Needs" and you will see that conversation is one of the top relationship needs for women and that sex does not even make this list (sex is the top number one need for men). You pointed out that she texts him many times more than you so he is meeting this top need for her, thus it is an emotional affair and she is cheating. The fact that BB is known to have the hots for her by her and her friends, makes this even easier to determine.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> Let me ask you all this.
> 
> If it turns out that all of the communication that her and John had together was completely platonic and nothing that she wouldn't have discussed with one of her female friends, is it still an emotional affair?


Even there are levels of female friends. And female friends do discuss a lot of intimate details. 

If it is a completely platonic relationship, she wouldn't have to delete details from this one particular person. Had she been open about it from the start, it would have been barely ok. Now is a no brainier. There is a poster called "Gabriel" .Read his threads to find out how much he has to deal with wife's friendship turned EA


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, please don't waste your time asking us "what about this or that?" It is the collective opinion of TAM that you have a situation on your hands. Stop asking the what if questions. Start addressing the issue.

Please.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its odd I have a feeling the WW hasn't gone PA yet, and yet OP is not investing the energy to go full blown James Bond to have an effective confrontation about this EA...there by preventing a PA.

IDK, but investing in a VAR and doing the TI work, he may ...hopefully prevent a PA.....but even if I'm wrong, OP will have the information that validates his next step in his marriage. 


Wouldn't that stink, if in 2 months from now, OP gets enough proof of an affair and confronts his WW and she tells him it went physical in the beginning of November...........


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Boy she's either very good or you're pretty obtuse like my wife was back in the days. Either that or you're just willing to shove all the red flags out the door praying what you already know isn't true.

She has way too many gaps in her timeline, sorry to tell you this buddy but this isn't an EA.

When you can't account for alot of her time, you're screwed.

And she just pulled a fast one on you and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Go undercover and keep digging, you tipped your hand and now she's on high alert.

How do I know it's a PA, look at my name there. Been there, done that. For an EA, usually you can track down all the missing time for the spouse pretty easily. When there's time that can't be accounted for.....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sandc said:


> OP, please don't waste your time asking us "what about this or that?" It is the collective opinion of TAM that you have a situation on your hands. Stop asking the what if questions. Start addressing the issue.
> 
> Please.


SIGH:slap:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

tom67 said:


> SIGH:slap:


I can't tell if you agree or not but I like the smiley. :smthumbup:


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You are struggling to understand the woman you married. Are her actions now - secretive, defensive, etc the actions you anticipated from that lovely loving woman? i think not.

You calm your suspisions by looking at yourself and saying "It cant be possible, theres nothing missing in our marriage"

Think again, at her age shes begining to wonder if ONLY YOU find her attractive. At that age insecure women may well seek outside validation to feel they "still got it".

Is it far fetched to beleive a virile health club ower, a 'safe' friend wouldnt fill the bill?

Do nothing - risk EVERYTHING

Act now - investigate NOW be the MAN that boldly protects his family. 

No matter what she says now - she really needs your help or SHE will wind up as a part time parent -like you.e


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Simple kind of man said:


> Let me ask you all this.
> 
> If it turns out that all of the communication that her and John had together was *completely platonic *and nothing that she wouldn't have discussed with one of her female friends, is it still an emotional affair?


You already told us this:

_"She told me that BB was short for “Back Burner” and that it was a nickname her friends had given to John. She said it was because *they thought that John had a thing for her *and it was just something they like to tease her with. She said that there is nothing going on and that he is just a friend."_

So it is not "completely platonic." Your wife is telling you that all of her friends think John has "a thing" for her. My belief is the opposite: That your wife has "a thing" for John.

But just assuming that what your wife told you is true, that John is just a friend, why would she delete John's texts and not her other friends?

Also, why would it be OK with you that everyone thinks another man has "a thing" for your wife, and your wife does nothing to distance herself from the other man or straighten out her friends that they are completely wrong about it?

*I believe she is texting John sexual and romantic messages. She does not want you to see her messages to him. The fact that she texted her friend "no funny business with BB" makes me think that it hasn't gone physical, but your wife wants it to and her friends want the play-by-play when it does.*

The simplest explanation usually is the correct one.

You came here asking if you were crazy for thinking something was going on, now you seem to be wanting to hear that it looks like nothing is. We can't say it looks like nothing is going on when everything you posted makes it look like it is. We are seeing the same thing as you, through your posts. If there is more exculpatory information regarding your wife and her relationship with a single male friend, then post it here so we can see that side of it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

cheatinghubby said:


> Boy she's either very good or you're pretty obtuse like my wife was back in the days. Either that or you're just willing to shove all the red flags out the door praying what you already know isn't true.
> 
> She has way too many gaps in her timeline, sorry to tell you this buddy but this isn't an EA.
> 
> ...


I guess I stand corrected.

So lets say WW tell all her girl friends that John is on the back burner or her friends think John is on the back burner, so avoiding looking like a tramp she has this ultra secret life even from her closest friends. Thats what my wife did.

I also found it interesting that when out at the party, WW continues to text John...indicating WW was not with John but with someone else?????????

Her girl friends assumed she was with John, but WW text say other wise.


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Will. You really have a knack for putting things in perspective.

I'm going to sit her down tonight when she gets home from her tennis practice and ask the tough questions. I'm going to ask her to be completely transparent with me and that includes uninhibited access to her phone. If she refuses then I know that she is not properly invested in our marriage and that it's time for me to start preparing to move on.

You all have given me a lot of strength and I'm a little ashamed at how lacking I have been in that area as of late. It seems that my WW has a bit of a kryptonite effect on me.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

The friend that called you to pick up your "drunk" wife was trying to clue you in. That means he was leary about something he saw that night. It took liquid courage for him to say to himself "I cant stand what shes doing im going to have to tip off my bud before this goes too far. "

Take him out for a few drinks and ask him if he's ever seen your wife act out of character. Tell him you're worried. 

He may or may not want to be forthcoming. Watch his body language.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

SKM, you've received some sound advice. To answer your basic question. No, I do not believe you are crazy. And yes, she is having an affair.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Maybe you should see that friend who had the party and have a conversation with him,as he may have been trying to give you a heads up in a roundabout way.He could be feeling in the middle so he told you to come and get her because she couldn't drive when in reality she was fine.Your wife being offended that you see some smoke there is odd because obviously her friends do as well.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> *The friend that called you to pick up your "drunk" wife was trying to clue you in.* That means he was leary about something he saw that night. It took liquid courage for him to say to himself "I cant stand what shes doing im going to have to tip off my bud before this goes too far. "
> 
> Take him out for a few drinks and ask him if he's ever seen your wife act out of character. Tell him you're worried.
> 
> He may or may not want to be forthcoming. Watch his body language.


Bingo! We have a winner.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Simple kind of man said:


> I'm going to sit her down tonight when she gets home from her tennis practice and ask the tough questions. I'm going to ask her to be completely transparent with me and that includes uninhibited access to her phone. If she refuses then I know that she is not properly invested in our marriage and that it's time for me to start preparing to move on.


That's one way to do it. Just do not allow yourself to be gaslit. ¿Comprende?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Simple kind of man said:


> You all have given me a lot of strength and I'm a little ashamed at how lacking I have been in that area as of late. It seems that my WW has a bit of a kryptonite effect on me.


Brother you are in no way alone, I went thru it 2-1/2 years ago and your right they are like kryptonite!!!

Just beprepared you are confronting her on her behavior, you have no proof of her cheating but you do have every right to move on and stop tolorating this kind of crap from her.

You got this man!!!

Again if your expecting some admission about her infidelity you won;t get it, I pray she does admit to her unhealthy behavior and commits to saving her marriage by getting help.


When she say " I want to work on the marriage" ask her what that means. In my case, alls I got is a bunch of "you need to do this" and "you need to do that"...not damb thing about what she needed to do.....


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> The friend that called you to pick up your "drunk" wife was trying to clue you in. That means he was leary about something he saw that night. It took liquid courage for him to say to himself "I cant stand what shes doing im going to have to tip off my bud before this goes too far. "


 This is a very good point, since she was not in fact drunk that is why he really called you. Also, she texted the other man (OM) when she got to the car because she had to apologize for leaving him early, and she was not too happy with you when you got home.


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## gdtm0111 (Oct 15, 2012)

i found my wife was texting more than calling, and from the texts I was able to read (before she deleted them) gave me more info about what was going on. actually gave me insight as to what her and her gf were up too also - ie. calling the OM's office # from the gf's office # just to see if he was there.

then when I confronted her this weekend with what I knew, she chews me out for the privacy issue too. and there goes all the trust we had just worked on.

OP, be careful anytime you confront.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

gdtm0111 said:


> i found my wife was texting more than calling, and from the texts I was able to read (before she deleted them) gave me more info about what was going on. actually gave me insight as to what her and her gf were up too also - ie. calling the OM's office # from the gf's office # just to see if he was there.
> 
> then when I confronted her this weekend with what I knew, she chews me out for the privacy issue too. and there goes all the trust we had just worked on.
> 
> OP, be careful anytime you confront.


 All cheaters play the privacy card. It is part of the cheaters script. Just ignore this claim as it does no compare with them cheating and has no place in the same conversation. As for confronting, do so when you want, but be ready to back it up with action.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You didn't say how she was dressed for the party at the gym. If she went in something sexy and you were purposefully excluded from going, you know then it was meant for him to see - not you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You didn't say how she was dressed for the party at the gym. If she went in something sexy and you were purposefully excluded from going, you know then it was meant for him to see - not you.


:iagree: Take the advice given please and update us we will be here friend.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Bingo! We have a winner.


I think your friend was doing you a BIG favor talk to him!:smthumbup:


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Simple kind of man said:


> What if this really is nothing?


Are you kidding me?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Simple kind of man said:


> Thanks Will. You really have a knack for putting things in perspective.
> 
> I'm going to sit her down tonight when she gets home from her tennis practice and ask the tough questions. I'm going to ask her to be completely transparent with me and that includes uninhibited access to her phone. If she refuses then I know that she is not properly invested in our marriage and that it's time for me to start preparing to move on.
> 
> You all have given me a lot of strength and I'm a little ashamed at how lacking I have been in that area as of late. It seems that my WW has a bit of a kryptonite effect on me.


So how did it go? Please give us an update whenever you can.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Please don't come back and tell us that during "the talk" she reassured you and you no longer believe she is doing anything wrong. Please don't say that.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Please, reach out that friend. He knows.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sandc said:


> Please don't come back and tell us that during "the talk" she reassured you and you no longer believe she is doing anything wrong. Please don't say that.


:iagree:

I AM wearing socks today, just in case, although I can't envision needing to eat them.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I AM wearing socks today, just in case, although I can't envision needing to eat them.


I got the sauce...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sandc said:


> I got the sauce...


That stuff is too hot for me


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

tom67 said:


> That stuff is too hot for me


That's the mild stuff. I have some habanero chilies for when I really want the spice.

Sriracha goes great with socks though.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

We aren't going to need the hot sauce, I'm sure.

My hubby is crazy for hot sauce. He has about 10 different kinds of hot sauce, chili oil, chili paste etc and seems to want to use all ten on everything. I don't let him spice MY food, I'll tell you that.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

sandc said:


> Please don't come back and tell us that during "the talk" she reassured you and you no longer believe she is doing anything wrong. Please don't say that.


Yeah, she gaslit him. Probably doesn't want to post.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

She probably did. But be patient with him, he really needs the help.

If she did BS you take everyone's advice and talk to your friend that called you.

If she called you crazy then show her crazy.

1. Go see an attorney and get legal advice.

2. Then go to the bank and put half of the money into an account under one name.

3. Then when your wife asks you what you are doing till her you are preparing for a future without her lies in it.

See how she responds to that.

Show her you are not kidding. And talk to the friends. And if her toxic GF that she texted about "BB" too is married you let her H know what is going on as well.

2 pronged attack my friend. And if BB is so religious then confront him for answers about your wife, not him, your wife.

HM64


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Here is the rundown of the confrontation…

I asked her again why she and her friends refer to John by the nickname “back burner” and she said that it’s just a joke that her friends use to tease her. I expressed to her how hurtful and disrespectful that is to me, and that even if her friends invented the nickname it was her choice to use it. 

I asked her why she is communicating with John 3 times more than she is me. She said that they are friends and “when do you ever text me, it’s not like your trying to talk to me all the time”. Classic blame shifting.

I asked her why she lied to me about texting John the night that I went to pick her up from the party and she said she didn’t remember texting him. She said she had been there all day and had been drinking and just couldn’t remember. She had no problem remembering that she ate the piece of candy though. ..

I asked her why she would immediately delete any text messages to/from John and leave all the messages from everyone else. She said that her phone didn’t have that much space for texts and she deleted messages from everyone, not just John. I told her that was BS and that I know for a fact she was only deleting his messages. She continued to argue that she deleted other messages all the time and it wasn’t just his, but I continued to press. She eventually tripped up and said that she figured I would get mad if I saw them.

I asked her what she would do if I asked to see her phone and wanted to read the conversations she’s been having with John. She was extremely resistant. She said she deserves her privacy and went into hardcore blame shifting mode. I told her I didn’t give a **** if she was offended by my snooping and that trust is built on a foundation of honesty and transparency. I kept pushing and she still wouldn’t relent. I told her that if she wasn’t willing to be transparent with me then it’s clear that she has no interest in a successful marriage with me and that it’s time for me to start moving on. She finally gave in after 30 minutes of arguing and let me look at the phone. The conversation went back a few days and most of it was pretty stupid stuff, but quite a bit about the girl(s) that he is dating and how those relationships are going. The most interesting one was the last one which apparently was the result of a conversation they had over coffee after a spinning class at the health club that morning.

W: “Thanks so much for chatting with me today it really helped. You are a such a great person, but I don’t have to tell you that.”
John: “Of course any time. I’m sorry that your hurting and going through such a tough time, but I know you will get through it with God’s help.”

I talked to my buddy who is good friends with John and he said that John came to him a few weeks ago concerned with how much my wife was contacting him. He told my buddy that something didn’t feel right about it and it was starting to make him uncomfortable.

The more I learn the more I believe that this was my wife pursuing John and seeking a connection with him. I honestly believe that she has feeling for him that go beyond just friendship, but that she hasn’t outright expressed that to him.

In the end I told her that I believe her relationship with John has crossed the line and is unhealthy for our marriage. I told her that I do not want her talking to him anymore and that they cannot continue to be friends. She agreed that she would do this.

I never really received and apology and can’t say she showed any remorse. I get the sense that she still feels as if she really didn’t do anything wrong. 

She agreed to go to counseling so now I’m in the process of looking for one. Hopefully it won’t take too long for us to get in to see someone.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Nicely done. You didn't relent and got a result. Glad to read that you're getting her into counselling. Your actions MAY have just saved your marriage. Again, well done.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Why are you the one doing the "looking"? Your wife should be the one looking for a counselor.

Your wife crossed the line and if she wants to keep the marriage shoe should be doing the heavy lifting to keep it IMHO.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Why are you the one doing the "looking"? Your wife should be the one looking for a counselor.
> 
> Your wife crossed the line and if she wants to keep the marriage shoe should be doing the heavy lifting to keep it IMHO.


You did alright considering but this is far from cured she is going to go through withdrawal if that "privacy" crap comes up again hammer it home there is none exchange all passwords ect. Thank your friend too that told you to come by, trust but verify for now good job so far.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Good job. Your wife won't say so, but she probably is happy that you showed enough interest to step in and put your foot down. It makes her feel good that you care enough to do it.

You were lucky that John has morals and no interest in your wife. I don't know a man who can run fast enough to get away from a woman who is pursuing him. Eventually, she would have caught him.

Also, consider the possibility that John naturally takes on a kind of open-to-romance attitude with women, including your wife, even though he made no overt moves on your wife and actually felt uncomfortable when your wife responded to it.

You may have dodged a bullet, but you're not out of the woods yet. If she has the hots for John, that doesn't just stop because you confronted her and she agreed to stop texting him. She still has the hots for him. Will she just think the better of it, and give up a romantic relationship that doesn't really exist anyway? Or will she just re-double her efforts to pursue him and hide it from you?

Also, it remains my belief that at least one or more of your wife's friends knows that your wife is pursuing John, is urging her to go for it with him, and wants the play-by-play when she does. Consider that her friend(s) may urge your wife to take it deeper underground and continue to pursue John. Your wife's friend(s) may be living vicariously through her. Be alert to it and put a stop to it immediately if you see it going on. Toxic female friends of your wife ultimately may present a much bigger problem to your marriage than John.

A couple of other problems you have:

1-Your wife knows you may be looking at her phone. She may change methods or just continue to text and delete. You have to be ready for this to continue. Especially since she admits no wrongdoing, she likely will remain in contact with him and find excuses as to why is was "necessary" ("he texted me first and I just replied," "he is a good friend and needed my advice about his love life," "he had a question about when the next spinning class would be," etc.)

2-Your wife still sees John in person. She could still pursue him without even using the phone.

The bottom line is that your wife could keep communicating with John no matter what you do to monitor her. There are always ways around the monitoring. You just have to remain vigilant, stay aware of your wife's moods, trust your gut, and eventually if she does continue it she will slip up and you will find out.

Do you think she was complaining to John about your and your marriage? I think she was. You probably have a good feeling about what your wife could be complaining about. It's probably a good idea over the next few days to try to discuss this with your wife and see if she opens up to you about what she is "hurting and going through such a tough time" about that John knows she will "get through it with God’s help.”


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

She needs to stop going to that health club where John works. In fact, if I were you, I wouldn't let her go to any health club by herself. You should work out with her. It gives you an opportunity to bond with her (couples should spend at least 10-15 hrs per week doing stuff together) and also keeps the predators at the gym away from her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> W: “Thanks so much for chatting with me today it really helped. You are a such a great person, but I don’t have to tell you that.”
> John: “Of course any time. I’m sorry that your hurting and going through such a tough time, but I know you will get through it with God’s help.”


Pretty sure she was telling him how unhappy she was and other martial problems. Most common way affairs start. And how much reliable is this buddy of yours. I wouldn't trust whatever John told him. It might be just that he was scared your W is getting too attached after whatever they did.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Cubby said:


> She needs to stop going to that health club where John works. In fact, if I were you, I wouldn't let her go to any health club by herself. You should work out with her. It gives you an opportunity to bond with her (couples should spend at least 10-15 hrs per week doing stuff together) and also keeps the predators at the gym away from her.


Atleast find another health club. I wouldn't trust her alone there either.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your wife needs to quit going to that health club, get STD tested and show you the results or take you when she gets them, give you every single password she has, show you her phone on a regular basis, and her computer, and tell you where she is every single minute of every day and prove it to you. Once she's done that for 6 months and proven she can be trusted you can step down the surveillance. 

She should also read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

Until and unless she does those things, the words coming out of her mouth mean nothing.

Keep monitoring her. I'll be surprised if this is over.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I think it's time for you to have a conversation with John.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Your wife needs to quit going to that health club, get STD tested and show you the results or take you when she gets them, give you every single password she has, show you her phone on a regular basis, and her computer, and tell you where she is every single minute of every day and prove it to you. Once she's done that for 6 months and proven she can be trusted you can step down the surveillance.
> 
> She should also read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Given her lack of remorse and no apology, it's not over. It could be over with "John," or maybe not, but there will be others. She's only sorry that she got caught.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

So far so good. But there's a long way to go.

BTW who dos she play tennis with? Are you sure you know all about that? Times, places, partners, coaches, after practice drinks etc.

Things to think about:
1.full transparency for ALL her comunication modes - be sure to verify
2. VAR in her car - dont tell her 
3.talk to the friend who called you to pick her up


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I think it's time for you to have a conversation with John.


Talk with John and find out who she is playing tennis with. She works out 5 days a week and plays tennis? That's alot of exercise or on a few of those days it's a "different" type of workout. I hope I'm wrong but wow that's alot.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She must be in super athlete shape with all the training and exercise she gets. Something smells fishy there and John may only be part of it. 

You need to figure out how to catch her going underground,including a burner phone.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Be on guard. She got caught and has not admitted fault or guilt or remorse. This is the time that unrepentant WSs either go deeper underground or play nice for a while until you feel more comfortable with her. Then it starts up again with OM or new OM.


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> So far so good. But there's a long way to go.
> 
> BTW who dos she play tennis with? Are you sure you know all about that? Times, places, partners, coaches, after practice drinks etc.
> 
> ...


I'm not worried about the tennis. I know everything I need to know about those activities and nothing there makes me uncomfortable.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Job SKM

Stay tough, get into counseling and discuss with her and you MC why your wife discusses issues in your marriage with John notepad of you.

Set firm boundaries for both of you and make sure she is clear what will happen if she continues intact with John.

And nail the toxic girlfriends too.....


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I never really received and apology and can’t say she showed any remorse. I get the sense that she still feels as if she really didn’t do anything wrong.


if she is hell bent on having an affair, she will be more careful the next time.. You need to keep your eyes open for some time to come Simple


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

SKM you're doing well. Very well, but it's early in the process and you're at a critical juncture. The path is forked and she could go either way. The trouble is you only have her word about the path she says she's on.

Being resentful about your insistance on transparancy, apparrent lack of remorse, wilingness to have intimate conversations about her life and troubles are BIG RED FLAGS. So, while her words say one thing, her actions say something else.

It took a threat - A REAL THREAT - from you for her to grudginly concede to let you see her phone. 

Over the next few days she's either going to realize that she's risked everything and will stop or will decide that living a secret life is worth the risk. Keep the lines of communication open. Don't badger, scream, or lose your cool but don't relent. Keep evaluating what she says, her attitude, and behavior.

Will Kane's post is on the money. Her friends are itching to get the latest developments in her secret life. Watch communication between them too.

Again- your doing great. Stay healthy, exercise, eat well, don't drink. You need all you wits.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Answers:

*What do they talk about in all of these conversations? 
Kids, marriage, sex to name a few!

Why did she lie to me about the text message in her car that night after the party? 

She doesn't want you to know what she is doing, the longer you are in the "dark" the longer she will be able to cake eat!

Why did she so diligently delete all the messages to/from him while and not do the same for others?*

She is hiding it from you, she doesn't want you to know what they are talking about. She doesn't want you to know!


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Been a tough day everyone. 

Last night after work I asked my wife if after trick or treat was over she wanted to go get some coffee or a drink and spend some time together, and if she didn't want to do that I would just go meet up with some friends. Her mom was in town and could watch the kids so I thought it was a good opportunity for us to get some time together alone. She declined and said I should just go out with my friends.

I'm not sure why, but this made me angry. I don't even think I was all that upset about her not wanting to spend the time with me, but I think it boiled up some of the residual anger over the EA. So I ended up coming home early and we talked for a bit. Unfortunately, during that talk I found out that she has continued to be in contact with the OM. She said she misunderstood my comments from our previous conversation and only thought that I was asking her to spend less time with him, and talk/text with him less than she does with me. I explained again that what I wanted was no contact. She could not continue to have a friendship with him if she wanted to have a marriage with me. She said she understands now and is willing to cut it off completely.

I woke up this morning and was still feeling uneasy about it so I asked her if she would let me look at her phone. She said yes and handed it right over. Well guess what? All of the texts to/from the OM and the "toxic" friend had been deleted.

I couldn't say anything to her. I couldn't look at her. I just got in my car and drove to work. I haven't been able to eat anything or concentrate all day. I feel physically ill. My life is such a roller coaster right now and I have no idea how to deal with it. Please tell me it get's better/easier.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Wow.

Your wife knew what you told her the first time. She is completely disrespecting you and is in the fog pretty deep.

If I were you, i'd get that new phone of heres and recover all those deleted texts. Also look for other apps (someone here will jump in and give the names) that may allow her to communicate with John.

Go low-tech on her and put the VAR in the car. I'd also keep my eye out for a burner phone


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

When you get home tell her it's john or me if she doesn't answer start packing and tell her you are dropping her there she is his problem. If that doesn't get her out of the fog just file
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

She 'misunderstood' you?!?! Wow. I'd be 'misunderstanding' her right back. "Oh, sorry, I thought you said you were leaving, that's why I packed all your bags and changed the locks." Wow.

I repeat:



Hope1964 said:


> Your wife needs to quit going to that health club, get STD tested and show you the results or take you when she gets them, give you every single password she has, show you her phone on a regular basis, and her computer, and tell you where she is every single minute of every day and prove it to you. Once she's done that for 6 months and proven she can be trusted you can step down the surveillance.
> 
> She should also read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.
> 
> ...


She is lying to you and telling you whatever pops into her head to be able to go deeper underground.

She is a real piece of work.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> She 'misunderstood' you?!?! Wow. I'd be 'misunderstanding' her right back. "Oh, sorry, I thought you said you were leaving, that's why I packed all your bags and changed the locks." Wow.
> 
> I repeat:
> 
> ...


Get a PI. I bet she is not working out 5 days a week, if john is off 1 or 2 weekdays she might be over there.Or do a polygraph!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

tom67 said:


> When you get home tell her *it's john or me* if she doesn't answer start packing and tell her you are dropping her there she is his problem. If that doesn't get her out of the fog just file
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmmm.... based on her gas lighting it's doubtful she'll say anything but " OMG you know it's YOU only YOU!" saying this as she texts away.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

SKM, your wife is making a fool out of you while your days go by in misery. Is this the kind of marriage you're proud to have? Is she a wife your proud to have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

I am amazed by how skillful your wife is in making excuses. She has a talent in righting wrongs.

If you believe her, it will make you feel confused, miserable and can-not-think-straight. 

You need to take a long, hard look at your wife, now a WW.


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## Penny_Lane (Nov 2, 2012)

Yes, she is starting/continuing to pursue an extramaritial relationship. Yes, you are going crazy, as well.

Ok, so now what? First, you're in denial. That's ok. You're in denial for a reason. You're not quite ready to face it yet. It's traumatic. Very.
At some point you will be. When you are ready to face this situation here's what I'd do. Don't bother asking your wife any more questions - she's lying. So you won't know for sure what's true and what's not - so don't even go there right now.

I would first approach John. John, the churchgoer, should know better that to be texting married women. Tell him about the texts you've seen and it's very uncool. Get a read on John's reaction.
And as the others have mentioned, you may have to find out some more on John - where's he go to church? Ask him.
Let him know in no uncertain terms - your wife is YOURS.

I'm going to pass on a little true story and you take it how you wish.
A very handsome doctor in our town had a man approach him at his office (place of business) and tell him point blank - "Leave my wife alone". It worked.
There's something going on - it has the power to turn your life inside out - now is the time to say something. To John.
And how correct this is or not - and it'd take balls - but I might even have a conversation with him as he's coming out of church.
There's is nothing like a little shame to put a stop to something like this. And it is shameful.
YOU need to gauge your wife's possible reaction to something like this though. Chances are pretty good she'll be pissed. Are you ready for that? If not, then just keep tabs until you are.
But there is such a thing as waiting too long in something like this.
Good luck to you.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Does it get easier? Probably.

She is not playing straight with you, you know that. A six year old would see through her lies.

Certainly you should continue to confront her.

What happens then depends on whether in her core she has a conscience, and on how long you can wait for her to sort herself out.

You can draw a line and say that's it, it's over. That might bring her to her senses, or it might end the marriage. No way to know for sure unless you try. 

If she has a conscience and you have the strength you can wait it out. Some people will tell you this is a mistake, that she's not going to wake up until you force the issue. They may well be right.

I waited out six months while my wife continued her affair, denying it all the while. Her conscience eventually turned her around. But by that stage I was pretty fried, and I only stayed for the children. Took years to rebuild.

And if you chose "wait it out" it doesn't mean turn a blind eye. It means call her on her infidelity and give her hell!

Be strong....it's horrible now but you will get through.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Good job. Your wife won't say so, but she probably is happy that you showed enough interest to step in and put your foot down. It makes her feel good that you care enough to do it.
> 
> You were lucky that John has morals and no interest in your wife. I don't know a man who can run fast enough to get away from a woman who is pursuing him. Eventually, she would have caught him.
> 
> ...


_Unfortunately, during that talk I found out that she has continued to be in contact with the OM. She said she misunderstood my comments from our previous conversation and only thought that I was asking her to spend less time with him, and talk/text with him less than she does with me. I explained again that what I wanted was no contact. She could not continue to have a friendship with him if she wanted to have a marriage with me. *She said she understands now and is willing to cut it off completely*. *Did she agree to this very easily, or did she give you resistance like your first talk with her?*

I woke up this morning and was still feeling uneasy about it so I asked her if she would let me look at her phone. She said yes and handed it right over. Well guess what? *All of the texts to/from the OM and the "toxic" friend had been deleted.* *What did she say about deleting all texts? Did you tell her that you don't want her to delete any of her texts?*

I couldn't say anything to her. I couldn't look at her. I just got in my car and drove to work. I haven't been able to eat anything or concentrate all day. I feel physically ill. My life is such a roller coaster right now and I have no idea how to deal with it. Please tell me it get's better/easier._ 

This is typical behavior I warned you about. I wasn't sure that she would continue to do this. It was a possibility that she would come to her senses and give up a romantic relationship that really was all in her head. Or try to continue on chasing John as if you had never said anything, hope you just dropped it or forgot about it, and act like she had misunderstood you if you did catch her.

Bad news: It gets harder for you now. She is not giving up the pursuit of John, and she is being egged on by her toxic friend.

Now you have to make new requests. Write them down and give them to her, keep a copy for yourself, and tell her that you will assume if she does not honor your requests then she does not truly care about your legitimate feelings or your marriage, and in your mind you sincerely believe she is choosing to pursue John over your marriage. Here is what you write down and request from her:

1. Tell her what you suspect. Lay it all out there. "I think you have the hots for John and are pursuing him. I think your toxic friend is encouraging you. I am asking you to help me see that this is not true by doing the following:

2. Stop deleting all texts. When I look at the phone bill and call log, if there is a text, I want to be able to read it. I am asking that you do not delete any texts from any body - that includes John and that includes your toxic friend and that includes everyone else. If it clogs up your phone, give it to me, I will read it, then I will delete it for you.

3. Stop any and all communication with John. If he texts you or calls you, I am asking that you do not reply. I am asking that you do not initiate any contact with him, either. I am asking for you to have absolutely no contact with John. Any contact you do have with John, I would like for you to tell me about.

4. I cannot control you. I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in a marriage. I am not willing to accept lies and deceit. I am not willing to accept you hiding your contact with a single male from me by deleting texts. You told me you deleted texts from John because you thought I would get mad if I saw them. As your husband, I don't feel there are any messages between you and anyone else that I shouldn't be able to see. If you have a problem with me or our relationship, you should talk about it with me, not with anyone else. I will not tolerate secrecy in my marriage, especially when I feel that my relationship with you is being threatened. I love you above all and I am not going to allow you to pursue another man while you are still married to me."

Next, you have to monitor your wife. Ask to see her phone every night and see if she has done what you've asked.

I actually would do the following two things first, before you even have a talk with and give the written requests to your wife, that way you will be ready to catch her initial reaction to your talk and short list of written requests, when she is likely to go running to her toxic friend for advice immediately after you have the talk with her:

1. Buy 2-3 voice-activated recorders and some heavy-duty velcro and place one under the seat of her car. Also place them in your house where she is likely to talk to her toxic girlfriend on the telephone when you are not home. I am betting that you will pick up your wife's verbal conversations with her toxic girlfriend which will clue you in to exactly what is going on. I am about 100 percent sure that your wife is confiding in this toxic friend and the voice-activated recorders are the key to finding out the truth.

2. If you can, keylog the computer. It may help you to see if your wife has set up any new accounts or purchased any type of prepaid burner phone to communicate with John. 

Remember, that your wife likely has told John some very unflattering things about you and how you are treating her while she is also letting him know, subtly or otherwise, that he is such a great and moral and honorable guy who she wishes you could be more like. She is trying to win him over by flattery and praise and make him feel that he would be justified in having sex with her. She is showing him skin, touching his arm, whispering in his ear, throwing her head back and laughing at whatever he says. It will be hard for John not to listen to your wife and sympathize with her. Remember, her toxic friend is attesting to the veracity of your wife's story.

I don't trust John. It is unlikely that it has become physical, but it is possible. They may have kissed or groped once or twice in the past and he tried to end it and she still is pursuing. It's not likely that she is pursuing so hard if it is all just in her head. He has to have led her on a little for her to take it this far. Her and her friend both will be working on him to soften him up. They are bored and maybe in need of some drama and excitement. I suspect that your wife is "in love" with John. I suspect that she "loves you but is not 'in love' with you." If so, you are in for a very tough road ahead.

This much I am sure of: Your wife already chose to pursue John. She is not going to stop because of this most recent confrontation with you. She will take it deeper underground. She won't expect the voice-activated recorder or the keylogger.


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