# 3 Months into Healing separation..



## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

My wife and I have been together for 6 years, married for almost 2 years. I have three lovely kids (11, 13, 15) from a previous marriage and I pretty much have full custody of the children.

My first marriage ended after 15 years when i discovered my x in the act of cheating with a good friend of mine. I was humiliated.

After some time alone I meet my current wife and romance blossomed, eventually she proposed to me and I said yes, happiest day of my life. She treats all three children beautifully and loves them very much, they also treat her like a mother. The relationship she has with them is wonderful.

All the way through the transition from my first marriage to this one I have attended therapy to deal with my insecurities which were mainly driven by my childhood and primarily the infidelity of the first marriage.

there has never been any infidelity in my current marriage from either of us. Initially my wife knew I was insecure and allowed was understanding of my doubts, my need to ask her about texts and or people etc. This became much worse for me in the last few months.

Early this year I lost a close family member and it sent me into a spin of insecurity and just prior to this my wife won a new job. She started making new friends and spending long days at work, losing weight, becoming less intimate and generally withdrawing from me. I came to understand that across the course of our relationship that I had eroded the trust by checking her phone, ipad, emails etc.

It came to a head 3 months ago and i checked for the last time and as a result we ended up at therapist who I had been seeing about dealing with the death of a my close family member. The therapist suggested a 3 month separation. We both agreed.

We are now coming to the end of that and during that time I have done a great deal of work on myself with my therapist and I am learning a great deal about why I am so insecure and vulnerable.

I have written to my wife and delivered heart felt and meaningful support directed and assisted by my therapist. Not pathetic begging to to come back etc, more of an update about my progress and my hopes for a future for our family.

A great deal of this has been poorly received and she does not believe I have been working hard and learning, which more than anything is tragic.

I am due for a session with her now after the period and it appears our separation will continue based on our interactions. 

She still sees the children and attend things with me, communicates with me. I understand that I have lost a great deal of her trust and she is hurt and angry over my checking, I have truly owned that behaviour with her and accepted that violation, she thanked me for doing that. She said, " I love you but I am not sure I can ever get past this" Things will never be the same?" I told her that she was right to feel that way and things would not be the same, they would be different and with work would be better. 

My progress is coming along well and I feel empowered and ready, she isn't seeing the therapist regularly, I think she will move to seeing therapist more regularly after our next appointment. She trusts her immensely as she has worked with her in the past but is open to it.

She has undertaken to take care of the children into the new year, attend medical appointments, help me to care when required. I know she hasn't written us off, but is so angry and hurt still. My therapist feels that the anger, hurt and loss of trust is the block, but is definitely repairable. 

I'm consistent in my support and responses to her, Im available and considerate. She sees that I am surviving without her atm, she does she me improving and coping ok. I have accepted that she needs more time.

My therapist feels I have made superb progress and my need to check on her is gone even when triggers hit, I have the tools and understand where some of those feeling come from and I am managing them well.

My therapist feels that I must just hold myself and continue of this path of self improvement, understanding I am a great father and husband and that I am worthy of good things. I have started believing this and my life is so positive, but having my beautiful wife back is what I would like.

She ebbs and flows, one day she is great and the next she is distant and non responsive. During this time she always stays in touch with the kids. Family are supporting us both. 

I knows it early days and time is needed and more work and consistency needs to be seen by her. I never react to her anger other than to accept and acknowledge it. I love her and don't want to lose her, is there anything else that I could be doing other than being continuing my work on myself (with my therapist) and being patient, available and caring?

Holding onto hope


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Sad story. But it sounds like you're on the right track. A lot further along than some who have come here. 

Props to you for all the work you've done. Rebuilding trust takes time, as you already know all too well from losing yours. And know she has lost hers, in you. There's no guarantees, but if you keep working on the path you're already on, and she sees the changes you're making, who knows. 

Just remember how you felt when you were so badly hurt, and your trust was broken. She's feeling exactly the same. But she'll have to find her own way now. Just give her the space, and time, to do it. 

I wish you both all the best.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Dayone I have read your letter to your wife, whilst my situation isn't the same I have worked through the same issues and written a letter in the same vain, delivered in person which she thanked me for. Time is key (i have plenty of that ATM) but I am accepting the marriage may be over and will continue working to be a better man for myself and my children. Communication is occurring but understandably shes guarded. I will take your advice, I have truly felt the pain I have caused which was part of my therapy, my load is getting lighter, but its up and down which is to be expected. I have also learnt that life will go on either with or without my wife (hopefully with) but I know I will be ok in the end no matter what. Thank you for your kind words I dont know you but that simple comment has given additional faith to continue on the long road I'm taking.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Letters are a great way to release a surprising amount of pent up emotion and feelings, quite often things you didn't realize as they were so suppressed. I've written a few since the first one, it's been incredibly releasing. 

But my advice is to not send them. Write them, save them, refer back to them, but don't send them. You'll realize that they are for you, not her. You may well, over time, see that the content of the writing, the tone, changes. This is you changing.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have not eroded the trust. You don't trust her. She trusts you I suppose. I would say that this behavior of you checking on her is annoying but not divorce worthy. It's not worthy of the drama that she is creating. Especially considering your past.

But at any rate, you are a father with custody of your children. Your heart, mind, time, thoughts, energy and focus should be on them, and not your wife. Don't drag your kids through any more relationship drama and broken familes. Bring them up as a divorced father and keep working on yourself. When your youngest is 18 yrs old, you will probably be ready for a relationship with a woman.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Hicks and Dayone, I totally get it, its been a long road of learning for me and more learning and understanding to be had. Your comments have really helped. At the moment it is the ups and downs of my wife's behavior that are hard. I know its normal and I always remain consistent acting with kindness and understanding. No covert contracts for me ever again, easier said than done sometimes. Im a people pleaser, I am learning that I must be truthful and ask for what I deserve, I am worthy and a good person.
Thanks again, I am very hopeful for my future no matter what happen and no matter what hurdles I have to tackle, Ill be in a much better position to engage in life as a result of this process.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I just want to chime in with bit of alternate perspective:

RE-read your posts from an outsider's persoective, with this tilt to it: "Does this guy come across as anything akin to an alpha male that a woman will find truly attractive as her mate?"

Please understand, I'm not calling you out here nor suggesting you go club her and drag her by the hair, but it just seems to me in reading that you're in a somewhat dangerous borderline of maybe siding with your therapist who is rooting you on with affirmations over your wife who is showing you that you've got to be a self-assured, confident man to get her back to comfortable with you as "her man"...

Again, just a perspective. I don't even have a suggested solution, just offering what I noticed when I read your post. I don't want to minimize therapy nor your progress in any way, but do stop,and think about what wifey is seeing and hearing, from her viewpoint, and what she needs... good luck.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hi 2xloser, I sort of understand what you are getting at, and it is an interesting perspective. My wife is a senior manager in her role and is very much an alpha female in every way known. Her father was in navy and she lived a very regimented authoritarian type childhood. I run our day to day, but she has had a large say in decisions around big issues and is very firm in her views at times. All that said she quite often masks what I believe are deep seeded insecurity with this outward show of power. Don't get me wrong she softens with me and generally is loving, but sometimes her "Manager" persona comes out in our day to day. She has high expectations of herself, always busy and always more to do. I'm kind of the opposite, love golf, yoga, dinners, cafes etc and just generally being with people and family. My therapist believed I was passive aggressive as opposed to assertive, I'm learning more about how to be more assertive when appropriate, I'm getting much better at it. My therapist also believes that I must stop making decisions in my day to day by measuring those decisions against what my wife would expect and how she will react. Obviously major life decisions are always consulted and negotiated. I purchased a book called No more mr nice guy, it seems like I have to start being more the alpha male and part of my therapy is teaching how to do that with my alpha female wife. Not sure if I'm making sense, but I guess what I am saying is at some point I stopped having my say and just allowed my wife to manage me, that has to stop. I am really interested on your perspective, not sure if I'm confusing what you are saying. Out of interest I am also a Manager but at a lower level than my wife, yet I earn a little more than her and do a little less. I love my job, she struggles with hers but seems to like the challenge. Any advice thoughts are very much appreciated.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Well tomorrow is my first MC session since we broke up, I've been doing IC. I've been thinking a lot about it playing it out in my mind, what am I going to say and so on. Feel like **** and really scared about it, been worried. I won't be begging or anything like that, but I do really miss my her and I do want her back in my wife. I guess my anxiety is normal. I kept myself busy but that only has limited success, I know I'm over thinking it. No matter what I intend to keep up with my IC. My stomach in in knots atm, any advice or any words of support would be appreciated.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Relax, go into it with an open mind and no agenda. Just let flow and see where it goes.

Take these from the 180:



> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on
> hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> ...


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks that's good advice, I will definitely take it on board. Much appreciated.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

No, you're not confusing my point at all, you've got it.

My natural alpha presence diminished throughout my 2nd marriage and I feel it played a big part in her affair. So my view, while tainted, has substance to it. My point was what you took away; NMMNG for me ever again. And it is actually amazing when one wakes up to it.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

2x I totally get it, if by chance I can pull through this and come out teh other end, I will definitely be adopting the principles of NMMNG. Makes sense. Thanks for the kind words.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Faithful123 said:


> 2x I totally get it, if by chance I can pull through this and come out the other end, I will definitely be adopting the principles of NMMNG. Makes sense. Thanks for the kind words.


Woah there hos. NMMNG is what you have to be implementing NOW, not then. NMMNG is for you, not for her. If you're going to do it for her, then you're doing it wrong.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Dayone, thanks excellent point. I will realign my thinking on this, it is great to have this forum to give you a wake up when you slip off your path. Stay tuned for update on MC.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tough afternoon, basically told me trust was completely lost and wanted to work towards divorce. Meet and discussed issues around settlement after session, didn't resolve a lot. Therapist said on phone to me afterwards that she hasn't processed anger and resentment. Also said that I must not be her pillar or offer any additional support to her as that would make things worse. She said to leave it to her and she would work on her trust issues. In the meantime, I have to start thinking about seperation of assets etc. She hugged me and told me she loved me and she cried. I didn't say a lot other than say I loved her to and say it not what I what I wanted. Also she said she felt I had all the support an had no one. Feel sick and panicked about it. My brother and his family are here for me. I asked therapist on phone if she believed there was any hope, she said I won't answer that other than to say leave your wife to me and you look after yourself. Whatever that means. She is open to therpay now and does need it. I am booked in next week with her. I'm ia bit messed up at present and words of support would go along way. Staying strong for kids though.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Listen to the therapist, she's on the right track. Your Wife has a lot of anger and feelings to work through. There's no point in asking "if there's hope" after session #1. You're going have to be patient. Give her time and space to get her head together. 

Work on you. 180, NMMNG, gym, writing. Start the process towards divorce as suggested, but don't assume that's the final destination. But accept that it may go either may.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks dayone wise words, I will certainly am hearing you, bit panicked and in shock atm. Have suffered from panic attacks in the past. Working through some figures with my brother tonight, I'm in Sydney Australia hence time difference. I guess this is my dayone in some way. Trying not to think to much about it but can't really get out of my head. At this stage there is no session 2 but only IC. Will start my road towards divorce 2 hoping that won't be my final destination. Thanks for your posts of support and advice, they truly help.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

The current feelings of fear and panic are quite strong, they come and go. Part of me feels out of control and a part of me tells me to stay in control, I'm exhausted and need to sleep but worried about panic. Is it ok for a couple of nights just to take something to help me get to sleep and stay asleep? We have a drug here in Australia called restavit which works for me in getting me drowsy enough to sleep, usually gives me 6 hours. Is what I am feeling normal? Should I be stronger atm? Will it get easier? I must admit I remember how I felt when my first marriage ended and parts of this are worse and other parts seems easier to manage. Btw this is me asking, writing and venting a little.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Faithful123 said:


> The current feelings of fear and panic are quite strong, they come and go. Part of me feels out of control and a part of me tells me to stay in control, I'm exhausted and need to sleep but worried about panic. Is it ok for a couple of nights just to take something to help me get to sleep and stay asleep? We have a drug here in Australia called restavit which works for me in getting me drowsy enough to sleep, usually gives me 6 hours. Is what I am feeling normal? Should I be stronger atm? Will it get easier? I must admit I remember how I felt when my first marriage ended and parts of this are worse and other parts seems easier to manage. BTW this is me asking, writing and venting a little.


It's all normal mate. At least it better be, as i'm going through the same rollercoaster ride. Even down to taking Nytol to get to sleep. 

Just stay focused, and true to yourself. There'll be up and down days. Yesterday sucked, but today i'm up again.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks mate, hearing you say that makes things better. Midnight here in Sydney off to bed, keep well yourself mate. Thanks for your support.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Feeling better today. Trying to just get through each day back to work tomorrow, people are finding out slowly, I have a fear of humiliation, but I have learned where that has come from and can sort of process that ok. I have a few very close friends that have been checking in on me which makes me feel loved. In 2007 my first marriage seperation/divorce was much harder than this but I have blocked it out according to my brother, he witnessed that 2. I guess I got through that ok so there is no reason I won't get through this. Trying to deal with practical stuff atm, but it's slow. Still in shock and a degree of disbelief. Anyway off for the next day on this ride.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't -- you are right."

Think you can get through this ok, because you CAN and you WILL.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks 2x I really needed that.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

2xloser said:


> "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't -- you are right."
> 
> Think you can get through this ok, because you CAN and you WILL.


This.

And:

"Whatever happens, I can handle it"


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Home alone with kids, my daughter gets braces this Friday and my wife (step mum) is taking her. So we have agreed to have a lolly dinner with wife and mother in law tomorrow here. Might be tough night tomorrow. Mother in law is angry and shocked and seems to be taking my side, I haven't really given her anything stuck by the 180 not asking for anything other than provided superficial communication. Mother in law texted today checking if I was ok and aid she cares about both of us. Also basic response. Wife has told me that her mum has been giving her major grief. Today I started the ball rolling hard email to wife about proposed seperation of assets. She hasn't responded but knows it's coming. I spoke with her today, so messed up and paranoid on phone. Nothing I can do but it's sad to hear her like that, but that's now her battle now. She has agreed to stay in the family home on the 13/14 November to stay with kids as I have to work in city and stay the night. Even through this last couple of days her communication with kids is every day. The kids don't know yet. I'm not ready to tell them until practical living arrangements, if I can keep family home etc are close to ironed out. Wife agreed as did therapist. I think they have an inkling but I know they'll be ok. I know there is so much water to go under this bridge in Australia you must be seperated legally for 12 months before you can apply for a divorce. It's been almost 3. So we have agreed my wife will rent a place, she living at her mums but can't do that long term. I do understand, her mum would be drilling her to go home to her family. Probably not great all round. Her own space might actually allow her the time and space she needs to process her feelings and get the help she needs. Time will tell. In the meantime I've been seperated for a while and was fine with. The hope for reconciliation, since finding out she has decided its over my emotions, it's like the work I did with my therapist was reminded and I regressed. Typing on here seems to be one thing that helps, it truly is group therpay with like minded people going through similar struggles and that helps.
So after yet another waffle, stressed about dinner tomorrow with children and mother in law. Stressed about wife taking daughter to braces appointment Friday. Not sure how I should act behave, advice help 180?


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Healing seperation has turned into straight forward divorce, straight into property settlements and splitting of assets. Pretty ****ed but have to keep going. Stressing about $$$ will be tight with kids but we will survive one way or the other. Looks like I will have to sell family home next year and get something smaller but I'm ok with that. Pretty anxious and contact with wife sets me off even if she is being reasonable. Trying hard to hold it together, today was a good day at work, but got email this afternoon and set me off, nothing sinister in it just contact, I'm probably struggling to detach emotionally, observing and living 180 but when contact happens I feel anxious. Anyway any help or words that may affirm what I'm feeling and any suggestions reminders to refocus me would be great. Thanks.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Wife took daughter to have braces fitted today, Waited at home till I finished work. Text asking a lot of questions about daughter, then said "my head is all over the place at the moment". Whatever that meant, I sort of ignored it and answered the other part of the text about daughter. Got home and she stayed for around 2 hours, very odd wanted to interact tell me about her day and work etc, was ok. I was somewhat detached but listening. Very focussed on herself and her behaviour and attitude seems to be the same, sort of hard as I felt like if she wanted to come back that I wouldn't want her back like that. Felt bad thinking that and didn't offer help at all. Felt really weird not to, but somewhat empowering. I don't like seeing her struggle like she is but that's her journey now not mine. Last 48 hours for me have been great feeling less anxious and more self assured that I will be ok no matter what. My IC over the last 6 months is largely responsible for that, thank god I did that and continue to do it. Haven't told kids as yet but that will happen soon enough. It's weird because I look at her and still want her sexually but that's all. Anyway there you go.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old are the two of you?

Why didn't you have children together?

Does she regret not having children?

Does she love yours as if they were hers?

Read MMSLP.

Basically from your description of the situation, you have hope. Work out so that you are physically attractive. Express self confident body language around her. Detach from her so that you can survive this. If she does initiate sex, take her. Don't pursue her, though.

If you are headed for divorce, does she want partial custody? What would be best for the kids?

What does ex1 say about stbx2?

Your wife is trying to divorce you. That's on her. She is probably afraid of not finding a family more than not finding a guy.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Me 42 her 33
She doesn't want them, her choice.
No regrets re not having kids
She loves mine like a mother

I'm an attractive fit guy, modest 2 haha.

She wants regular visitation during seperation and or divorce, agreed to in short term. Best for kids is partially up to them. Not best for me if we are divorced for her to see them. 

Ex wife 1 doesn't know yet and won't for a bit, they don't really get on and for that matter nor do I and ex wife 1.

Interesting assertion re family instead of a guy. She's in love with her work "but hates it" I've established shes playing the victim and very much a perfectionist/OCD/narcissist with a dash of bipolar. Buggered if I know really, but in her current state I don't want her other than sexually, I guess that will pass in time. 

Observing 180 and will definitely read MMSLP.

Still confused but getting on with my journey and life, life goes on and if she doesn't want to come along for the ride with me that's on her not me, she is clear on what I want.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Keep on doing what you are doing. Your going to stumble along, but you will stumble less. You are already changing your mindset. 

You are creating a better you, a you that is less dependent on her, and having self-reliance. That should feel empowering. Be cordial, and maintain a distance. You are not fully out of the woods yet. Creating a new life and creating new bonds will bring on detachment. Do something that brings fulfillment, and you will realize that you can be happy, and that happiness doesn't need to be with her. 

Also a better you, will be a more attractive you. Mentally and physically strong men are most attractive qualities in men that women find. Your next relationship, there should always be an independent you, otherwise you become codependent.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

File for divorce. Beat her to the punch. Let her chase you if she wants you.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks mr fisty I will take your advice and I am slowly working towards that. Long walk in Australia you have to be seperated for 12 months before you legally can file. At this stage it's progressing along with settlement of assets etc. I am hearing you mr fisty about detachment and creating a new life. I guess the hard thing is that emotional detachment, she still even in our interactions now try's to dictate what I should and shouldn't be doing, in little ways, it's a habit and I don't take it personally but it certainly highlights that she isn't or hasn't done what she needs to do for herself. That aside as hard as this is I have no real choice now but to emotionally detach. A lot of people talk about infedelity with her, but funnily enough I just tell them that that thinking only serves to torment me, so I won't go there. That behaviour would be on her not on me. I'm a good man with great values and would as this process goes on I'm starting to realise that no one wins in this, but certainly for me choosing to learn is imperative. Learning about myself and what I want and deserve. In all of this I do still feel sad for her as well. Your advice and caring on this forum has helped me immeasurably, time is a great leveller in all things and I guess in this one it will be as well.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Time is a great remedy. Switching your focus will help you get there faster. 

It is good that you can be empathetic, People aren't bad most of the time, just broken. 

Only way to know yourself is to ask questions about you. Answer truthfully as possible.

You can write a list of the traits that you have and the pros and cons of each trait.

Ask yourself what type of person you seek to be, and make a list of goals to get there. 

We will be your cheerleaders here. Accept in a manly way.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Haha Mr fisty in a manly way. I will also work on my list and might post it soon. Thanks. Few emails from stbxw2 today pretty straight forward stuff about finances seperation etc. Final email ended with "Just feeling a bit lost at the moment" I replied but didn't offer anything, or address that part my response was pretty straight forward and to the point. I'm not even sure why she is putting this stuff in emails to me. I can't offer help anymore, you want a divorce...am I wrong? Offered support earlier in process told me she was fine, offered again said that she couldn't reciprocate so not to offer, then makes comments like that. Im just a little confused why and what to do with it. I do feel for her but won't reach out as it goes against what I am trying to do for myself. I can't fix her, she needs to fix herself...am I wrong? Thoughts anyone?


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Faithful123 said:


> I'm not even sure why she is putting this stuff in emails to me.


There's two possibles

1) She's genuinely mourning the end of the relationship.

2) She's not saying stuff like that for you, she's saying it for her. To help herself feel better about the breakup. In her mind if she's 'nice' to you, she doesn't have to feel sh*tty about herself (rationalization hamster)


But.... here's the thing, IT DOESN'T MATTER. You have to learn to ignore those 'last sentence' comments and not let them throw you. 

From the sound of the rest of your post, you're on the right track. Keep going, stay strong, be 'the rock'.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

A third would be, she wants you to fix her problems. If your a fixer, and always looking to fix her problems, you have hard wired her to seek you out and fix her problems for her. 

Be cordial, but remind her that you are separate now. You have your own life to live. 

If this is an aspect of you, own it, and learn from it. Find the source when talkong to your therapist. 

Most issues we gain and form us is from childhood. 

As children, we are blank slates, and will emulate the people around us.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks guys I'm getting it atm.....slowly. Just on more question she has asked for a regular update by email about our cats, one is unwell, but not on deaths door just yet, she has also asked for photos or them and photos of kids. She is very attached to the cats and kids obviously. I do mind doing it but do you think that it's necessary, she will be moving into her own flat soon probably this month and taking cats with her, is it ok until then. Once she moves she can organise to see the kids and I will stop emailing re kids, she texts my oldest daughter daily still, often checking on what we are doing and how she is. I just want to make sure I'm not getting off track with this. I do minimise it atm and it's generally once a week on a Saturday or Sunday, but if shes been around I don't email.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Depends on your comfort level. If you do, don't add any messages. 

People can view pets as members of the family. 

If she crosses any of your boundaries don't respond unless it is about the children. 

You are linked until the children are grown, you are going to have to create a civil relationship based on co-parenting and see what is best for the kids.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think your therapist is an idiot and should be fired. A man and woman cannot work on a marriage while living apart. She destroyed your marriage. 

I will bet you there is another man involved. This is why her so called "trust" in you eroded over those three months. She found a replacement. 

I would cut off all ties with her except for texts regarding the kids and I would do some sleuthing. Your gut probably told you your first wife was cheating. What does it tell you now?


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks bandit, not worth it, it serves to self torment myself. My gut did tell me she was cheating, but that's done now. Sleuthing, that's what got me here, forgiven myself now. Not doing that anymore it's self destructive and I have to look after myself and my kids now. If she has found someone else good luck to her, that's on her, not me. You might be right but it simply doesn't matter anymore. Me chasing that part of it is like me swallowing poison and expecting her to die, it's a lose lose for me. I had no idea with first wife, it was simply dumb luck I found out that's why it hit me harder than this. We both destroyed our marriage not my therapist, my therapist has saved me.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Been a busy weekend now spending day just relaxing watching TV with kids and generally having lazy day at home, toughest day in last week, time alone to think is always hardest, not terrible but little bit of emotion creeping in, pretty hard day just want yo cry all the time but kids are around so can't right now, maybe later tonight just to get it out. I guess I have to get used to it and suck it up. Worried about breaking it to kids but it will be ok 2. Done it before with them when they were younger, not easy but they are resilient. Will likely tell them in the next week or two. Need to be a bit stronger. Wife pushing to do it sooner rather than later, not her choice at this stage.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

You are going to be fine. Time is an amazing healer. Unfortunately, you have to go through it to find out and realize the benefits.

And I'm sorry, do I have this right -- they're your kids, not hers and she wants visitation rights? Uh uh, no. You can do so while and as long as you feel it in their interest or not, but don't get it legally mandated for sure.

Definitely an OM on some level, but like you said -- it doesn't matter now. Big step for you. Stay mentally busy, physically busy too, and remember how much tension is now gone from your household. You'te already better off, you just don't yet know it or see it. You will.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Try having some fun. You may not want to at first, but when your surrounded by people having a good time, you can get caught up in it. 

Create goals on how to improve your life, and it will help with your self-image. 

Like do charity work, and see the positive influence that you have on someone else life. 

Doing positive things for yourself, will boost positivity in your life.

Losing weight, buying something we enjoy, doing something we always wanted to do, but never did.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Fisty and 2x you're right they're my kids not hers and not legally mandated for visitation but kids don't know just yet but they will soon. Time will sort that out. Mr Fisty I will definitely start investing more time in me, my 1st ex has kids every second weekend for 2 nights Friday and Saturday so I will start up my yoga classes and organise to do dinner with friends, I will think hard about doing something I always wanted to do but never did. Not sure what that is really, but will think more on it, thats exciting. Just have to work out what that is, still taking baby steps atm. I am tied to her financially for another 3 to 6 months due to separation of assets, but that bond will be broken once our financial plan is finalised, in a week or two. Thanks tough night had some trouble sleeping first time this week. Tired now but have to get up and go to work. Will think hard about planning some nice activities for me. Rest assured I'm nit stagnating I am doing things when kids are here with me, but need to do some things alone 2. Thanks for your help its is working slowly.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Very productive day discussed finances and her moving into her apartment, didn't fix anything believe me, was very amicable. Although she needs me to come up with a plan that she picked apart, guess what........ NMMNG came out and it was absolutely liberating. It felt good to stand up for myself in an assertive way. Not passive and not aggressive just stating the truth and what I wanted. I've tackled some massive things and have so many good people supporting me through this. She asked when I wanted to discuss Christmas with kids, I just said "Now is ok, I'm happy for you and your family to see the kids and spend time with them, but that will have to be around our plans, I will let you know what they are." She asked some questions, she hasn't told her grandparents who love me and kids and want lunch with us in Christmas Day. I also said, "I don't want to spend Christmas with you guys and have to pretend, I won't be doing that, it's unhealthy for all involved." She actually accepted it, then said that her mother was crying every day about kids Our breakup and Christmas. I said, "I'm sorry to hear your mum is upset, but this is the way it is now, she can certainly see them, but you and your family will have to fit around us."
I told a mutual work collegue about us and she asked me how she knew. I told her that I told her and she asked what I'd told her, I said "the truth". She said, "it's no ones business you should just not tell them why", I said, "I have no issue telling people the truth if it's appropriate, I'm not broadcasting it, but I simply don't care what people think, I care what I think." She hadn't heard that person before. Anyway went on for a little bit, resolved a great deal and was quite amicable. She is ashamed/humiliated and embarrassed. Guess what, so am I but thats life and it's liberating when people support me even when the truth is out. People actually like me for who I am without her around. 

My close work mate asked me today a difficult question? 

If you were in deep despair and having a really down day and she walked in and said she wanted you back would you consider it?

My answer after some thought, "No, because I deserve so much more than that. She's no longer the person I feel in love with.

I realised today when talking to our receptionist at lunch about kids and what's happening, I made some random comment about protecting my children and being the role model they want to be, I want them to idolise me, to want to be like me. 

Her response "I'm so proud of you, you're attitude and self belief in this adversity is absolutely inspiring"

That nearly brought me to tears, I thanked her. My mindset is changing, life is improving, it's up and down and I'm sure I will experience more setbacks and adversity. In all of this I'm a a single dad bringing up three kids and who thankfully are excelling in school and are in my view developing into very well balanced human beings. I've got a lot to be proud of, heck I'm proud of myself. 

Still learning with therapy, session tomorrow, I think my therapist will expect me to be doing well. It's only been a week since the hammer feel, a long way to go, but things are slowly looking up.

This site has been my crutch and continues to be, thank you all for being there for me. It's helped immeasurably.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Seems like you're doing fine. Good job! :smthumbup:


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Good job. She doesn't need special privilege at all. 

By letting go, you are suffering less.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Good job. She doesn't need special privilege at all.
> 
> By letting go, you are suffering less.


:iagree:


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Faithful123 said:


> Still learning with therapy, session tomorrow, I think my therapist will expect me to be doing well.


2x4!!!!!!


Knock that off! You are going to be whatever you are going to be.

If your therapist is any good, and you say that to them, they will smack you up side the head and say the same as me.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Everyone moves at their own pace. 

My brain is hard wired diffrently than yours. For me detachment comes easier. 

I have a world view where everything in life is temporary. Hppiness is, sadness, is , life is. 

You have a desire to have a happy home, a loving wife, and your suffering is coming from not having those things. 

If you can learn to let go, your suffering ends. 

But it is a process. Your training your brain to think differently. It takes time.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Dayone I needed that 2x4 haha. Very true Mr Fisty, reprogramming is in process, slowly but surely it's happening I can see it. It's an interesting observation about things being temporary. You're right regarding my suffering and what I want. The more I detach the less I suffer. I understand now that it's gone and it's time for me to heal and get on with my life. 

I'm apprehensive and a little scared but excited about the future, life will be different, but better, the ability to make my own choices from a position of balance and clarity will be a change for me. I'm getting there slowly. I'm seeing it and feeling it.

My wife text me last night saying that she was uneasy about our discussions yesterday as she felt I was dictating to her what she had to do. I certainly wasn't. She hadn't experienced the assertive, honest me asking for what I deserve, that has likely challenged her in some way. I didn't make it OK, I just told her that I was making sensible choices that would help the kids and me and in turn would help her, how she interpreted it was up to her. She left it alone from there. I figure she is likely feeling she doesn't have the control she had previously had, I was not an a..hole just truthful and assertive. 

It certainly doesn't concern me as I'm the focus but affirmed in some way that I'm on the right track. It was good for me. Not sure if that makes sense, but made me feel better that I was taking my life back.

She also has kept contacting me about people knowing and various other things. I have said upfront, I respect her need for privacy but I simply am not bothered who knows. Is that bad? We work for the same company different locations/division. I'm very well regarded within the company and I am perceived as very influential, as I have a direct line to the CEO/CFO, they are old mates of mine. I have told her that its my business, she said have I bad mouthed her? I said, I wont grace that with a response other than to say that it not my style, she said, "I know its not." She also keeps saying she has done nothing wrong. I guess I might have to start setting some more defined boundaries around this, will speak with therapist about best way to deliver this message. Anyway more waffle from F123.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Faithful you sound like a good guy. You sure do give good advices too. 180 rule works for me. I had no clue what 180 was when u wrote that to me. I had to do some research on that n I can honestly say it works. Have an awesome day Faithfu!


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Lynnie1981, that's been part of my problem, "being a nice guy". 180 works for everyone and is working for me, Im detaching from my wife now like you are from your husband. Im starting to let go, the issue I face is the continual need for contact, but Im setting some very defined boundaries. My therapist said I just needed to be mindful and be careful not to become angry and remain assertive. She also said, not to be a victim. This is done by setting clear boundaries and 180 is part of that as well. Thankfully, detaching from her is becoming much easier for me as her behaviour over the past couple of months has highlighted to me that I deserved so much more. I have witnessed some traits in her that I certainly no longer want to be around and as Mr Fisty said, once you start letting go or fully let go, the suffering ends....guess what its works and is true.

So onwards and upwards for me atm, and I will certainly stumble, that's part of this, but I am stumbling less and I am standing up for myself asking for what I deserve. I still have moments of reflection that make me sad, upset and anxious, but they are becoming less frequent. 

Focusing on getting on with things for me and taking it one day at a time.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Good job, glad that you are getting there.

Attachments allow us to be more vulnerable. Especially , those we place on a pedestal.

IN any relationship, we have to learn to step back, detach and analyze.

Also strong boundaries skills protect us from being taken advantage of.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks I'm doing ok, just moving along my path, sometimes I find myself angry with her decision to not try and save us, her bailing out. Then wanting me to be there for her, it's frustrating at times, but I'm seeing and witnessing her behaviour, it's almost automatic for her. My therapist said that she has not accepted responsibility in this and she has a great deal to own, so she will have bottled up anger which will manifest in bad behaviour towards me. Therapist said deep down she doesn't want this but knows nothing else, it's what she does. The scary thing for me is I understand her better than she understands herself. Not my job to worry about it though, just helpful to know so I can manage.

Tonight I am working in the city and staying in hotel for work, rare for me as I work mainly during the day office hours around a kids schooling. She has agreed to stay in the family home and care for the kids. I won't see her and it was pre arranged. Kids go to school the following morning and she goes to work, so we don't cross paths which is good. I won't be calling on her again like this. It's kind of nice for the kids and they will like it. For all her failings, she loves the kids and is good to them. This Saturday she is coming around when kids are with their mother for two days to pack up her clothes and some smaller items. Removalists taking some of the furniture for her apartment the following weekend. She's signed a 6 month lease.

This weekend. Will be tough for me, I won't be helping or staying while she packs, I'll be spending a bit of time just agreeing to what she can take but not hanging around too long. I will go out for the day. 

She is very much in the process of attention seeking, yesterday contacted me several times and the final time was to let me know she was going to physiotherapist as she had stuffed her neck and needed to use our joint credit card to pay. The old me would have thought to ask if she was ok....oops I just said that's fine. 

She's struggling with this I can see it, the more I pull away and become less available the more she seems to try. It's over now.

Not enjoying our interactions and not looking forward to her coming over here Saturday to get her stuff, that will be tough on me. I will definitely hold it together. 

Her playing the victim, attention seeking, non commitment to family and her non commitment to me has caused this to end, I'm still sad for her and in some way want to shake her and say wake the **** up. 

She has surrounded herself with like minded people, damaged people that listen to her tails of woe. They give her the time of day and feed her behaviour, she has distanced herself from her own family and anyone that doesn't tell her what she wants to hear. I have been replaced one way or another, but she seems to like to try it on with me, probably automatic as I was the fixer. I don't entertain it.

I guess I'm venting a little here, but just worried about her moving stuff and how that will effect me emotionally. It's like the final straw that seals the end of the relationship for me.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Good for you F123. I'm super proud of you Don't know your wife. But, she sounds like a drama queen that seeks for attention. Not good for you. I'm glad you're doing your own thing. You go with your bad self lol!


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Need that Lynnie spent night in city for work, she stayed with kids they had a nice time. Came home to find my entire wardrobe packed up and large boxes stacked with her clothes packing was planned for tomorrow. Was a little confronting for me, but it soon passed. Trying to to read into it, I've been detaching heavily and not being available to her like I used to be. Continual contact all night then nothing after 5pm last night......good. The contact does mess with me a little. 

It funny you say attention seeker, and drama queen. My good friend and pretty much all my closer friends are all saying the same thing. Realising now I'm better off without her, it hard though and some time you have to catch yourself processing things incorrectly. 

Off to yoga tonight then dinner with family. Saturday some Xmas shopping and Sunday off to a place called Fitzroy falls in Australia for some getting in touch with nature with a friend.

Dealing with her tomorrow at 9am for about 30 mins then out the door. Not wasting anymore time getting on with my life.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

That sounds awesome! Have fun!  Have fun especially at yoga, I love yoga.. It's a stress reliever and it takes you away from all the negativity that's going on in your life. Stay calm, peaceful and enjoy yourself.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Good job, you changed in a very short time.

How is mmng?

I have never read any books mentioned on this site.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Faithful123 said:


> Need that Lynnie spent night in city for work, she stayed with kids they had a nice time. Came home to find my entire wardrobe packed up and large boxes stacked with her clothes packing was planned for tomorrow. Was a little confronting for me, but it soon passed. Trying to to read into it, I've been detaching heavily and not being available to her like I used to be. Continual contact all night then nothing after 5pm last night......good. The contact does mess with me a little.
> 
> It funny you say attention seeker, and drama queen. My good friend and pretty much all my closer friends are all saying the same thing. Realising now I'm better off without her, it hard though and some time you have to catch yourself processing things incorrectly.
> 
> ...


You are doing great.
No emotion all business when dealing with her.
Remind her mother this was HER decision.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks people appreciate the comments, working so hard on myself and my support network is expanding and of great assistance to me. Fisty NMMNG book is actually very insightful, some of the concepts are floored in my opinion, however, in essence the message is clear, most fixers on the forum would read it and think he is describing them. I read the opening and thought all those traits are me. Offers good excercise which are easy to apply to retrain your brain. In essence I have come to realise that part of the solution is understanding what causes our cognitive dissonance, in most cases including mine, it's our childhood. My IC has assisted me to breakthrough that and out to where it belongs. It's a worthwhile read. Tom67 her mum knows, she was living with her mum hence her moving into and apartment. 
Battling away still but a little further along the path.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Perhaps I will give it a shot, maybe I will find some useful tidbits.

I am not sure if I qualify as the nice guy, but wisdom gain, is always valuable.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Hi Faithful123, so happy with you keeping yourself busy. Good progress have a good day faithful


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Lynnie was a lovely day today, hope you're going well. Had a little setback today garage full of packed boxes set me off and I had a cry, felt ok afterwards, wrote it in my journal and it'll be ok. Removallist comes in next weekend so I will be making myself scarce, don't want any part of that ****. The sooner she gets her stuff out the better, over her putrid weak behaviour, but that will pass. Not looking at her clothes and alike will be great as it will me allow the kids and me to start making the house our own. 

She kept stating and repeating the 6 month lease tonight, my gut tells me that she is trying to plan b me if whatever she is up to doesn't suit her or work out. Sad news for her is that I am nobody's plan b anymore. I'm at the point that even if she begged me now that I would not allow her back into my life. Sounds harsh as this was a woman I loved but I can say now that I find myself not even liking her.

Only issue now is unnecessary contact by text on office chat, phone. Not being available at all, 180 all the way. Problem is that seems to drive her need to contact me. Anyway managing ok with it atm and pulling her up when required, selfish and attention seeking.

Next weekend will be ok as spoken to kids now about furniture and they are 100% fine even excited! quite surprising really. I'm actually excited. We will be upbeat and happy to get on with our lives.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

STBXW continues to initiate contact, most of which is unnecessary into her upcoming move to her apartment. I've been detaching but she continues to push the limits. She moves this Saturday from her mothers into her new rental apartment, all her things will be gone at this point. 

She is very very needy but I have maintained a distance. I am waiting until she moves in a couple of days to see if her unnecessary contact drops off. If not she will be getting an email reminding her of the boundaries we had agreed upon.

In essence she texts every day about generic things that are non urgent. Agreed communication method is email, I will be driving that home in the next few days. She actually made a comment that I was communicating with her like I do with my first x wife.......um hello, you decided to leave you are the STB2XW....she doesn't cope without me being the fixer or available. 

This contact has caused me some anxiety not because I hold out hope but I feel like it is nuisance value and annoying. I guess I need to detach more for this to pass and I think once she moves out Saturday and all her crap is gone, I can continue to move forward.

Just venting a little....


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I would tell her that I am happy that she is starting over, and hope she is happy.

I would then tell her that I am excited about rediscovering myself, and now I am more content with myself.

Thanks to her leaving, I learn to become a better person, and now I know how to be a better man.

I learn healthy ways to cope, I am now more introspective, I learned that happiness and self love starts with me, and now I can enjoy life, and find a more fulfilling relationship because I know what I am looking for now.

Of course, this is if you want to smack her self-ego.

Stating how much better your life is too, and wished her the same.

I pulled this card on my ex-gf, and she stopped fishing, after her life was down.

In my case, it was true, I was happier and having fun.

I became the more playful me again, and avoided her drama.

I swear she starts drama is because she is used to it.

Her parents constantly fought, and it was awkward. Her sister got married and they fought like crazy too.

She definitely learned this behavior from her parents.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Wow Fisty I love it. I will definitely be using some of that. I wish I had it about 30 minutes ago. She was caring for kids tonight, as I had committed to work in city tonight and as previously agreed. She engaged me tonight is some discussion around the children and feeling like I was shutting her out of there lives. She referred back to a comment I had made about Christmas and me looking after the kids presents. 

She also said tonight that she wants to protect them. She pretty much cried the whole time, I was fairly indifferent and didn't fix anything for her. No hugs, comforting sympathy at all. Just told her the truth, told her that her decision to divorce was hers to own and part of that is some of these tough adjustments and consequences that have to be made. One of those adjustments is that she will see the children a lot less. I told her that I was their father and it was my role to protect them now. 

I told her that it was her decision was to end our marriage and part of that is that we are no longer a family. She didn't like that and cried, blamed me and pointed the finger. Very passive aggressive. I remained calm and said that I have paid my dues, taken responsibility, forgiven myself, learnt a lot and was now moving on without her. I said, you're anger and resentment towards me now isn't for me anymore and that she needed to take that somewhere else. 

I wasn't loud, just honest, I meant it. She then started on some guilt, my work is crap, my grandmother won't speak to me anymore, my mother is shattered and I have bruises all over my legs from having to pack up all the boxes myself. I had nothing other than, "right, I not sure what you would like me to say or do with that" 

I felt a little cruel really, but much of what I said needed to be said. She is in a massive fog, attention seeking by any means whatsoever. I probably got a lot of this wrong, but I didn't want to have to be a ****en doormat and take her bull**** for another minute. 

I have had my say and feel better. 

On what you've said though Fisty, I do believe much of what you have said, I may not be quite at that point yet, but I am closer than I was a few days ago. The attachment is going, I felt next to nothing when she cried, actually I felt that it was pathetic and I didn't believe it, in fact I felt it was a lost fake.

I'm using this post as bit of vent again, spoke to my friend after she left tonight, feel,ok and don't feel bad about it. The old me would have been doing everything to make her be ok with what has happened, the new me only cares that I'm ok with what has happened, and I am.

Fisty your ex gf sound very similar in some ways to my stbxw she is in a constant state of conflict, work, home, friend with strangers. Very aggressive and angry much of time time. Faking it most of the other times. Def learned from her father and mother, similar traits in them.

I intend to use your lines of her next Fisty. They are truly spot on and need to be said.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Everyone's pace is different.

Make sure it is true if you ever did what I did.

Also, make sure everything is separated, I did not get all my stuff back.

I could have planned that better.

It sounds kind and understanding, but it is an attack on their ego as you wish they found what you have found as well.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Totally get it, not atm but in time I will be in a position to deliver that type of message, everything including personal finances are separate do now, we just have to settle properties. Might have to tread a little more gingerly atm until settlement early next year. 

Her mother just called me and said she was crying most of the night. Anyway I didn't say a great deal other than to use the line that it's all part of this process and that she should be more concerned if she wasn't upset. I told her I can't fix this for her and her daughter and that my needs are my number one priority now. I ended conversation politely and told her that it's probably best she didn't become involved in this in this manner as it serves only to complicate things. 

This actually helped me as again I stood up to them and wasn't the doormat. Anyway things will start to settle in the next few days once she takes her stuff.

Thanks for the feedback Fisty I just think I am much farther along than I gave myself credit for, I don't feel as upset or emotional anymore, just very indifferent towards her. Just like she is there.

Off to work now to an office full of ladies, who are continually trying to organise my social life. Kind of nice and a good place to escape to in a daily basis. The process continues.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tough couple of days, stbxw has been very angry in relation to kids. A couple of difficult conversations were had regarding her spending time with kids. She believes I will not allow her to see kids and will use them against her. A high degree of paranoia, managed to allay her fears and seemed ok. She moves her stuff in 2 more days, the build up to this move has made me feel anxious and worried. Not sure why, but I've been walking and keeping myself busy. 

I've accepted its over but dealing with and accepting uncertainty for the future is what I need to somehow manage now. There will be a degree of uncertainty for about 6 months.

Worst couple of days for a while probably because of increased contact around the move. I addressed that with stbxw and she said contact was only about the move and she would return to email contact once she moved. I'll set some more defined boundaries if it occurs after the move.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Big shifts in life can breed anxiety. It is a big change in a short amount of time. Some people have the mindset of rushing in and taking the bull by the horns. They see it as a challenge to conquer. Some people I know, see it as an adventure into the unknown.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Fisty, I guess a lot happening has knocked me a bit. Trying to stay strong any suggestions of words of advice to see me through are appreciated.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

We are creatures of habit, it breeds comfort. Your out of your comfort zone and learning to adapt and deal with your new reality.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

stbxw moved all her stuff out yesterday, planned for it and filled most of the spaces with new bits and pieces. Kids helped they saw it as adventure as did I. I spent the night at my brothers the night before which was helpful and he came over and helped us set up. I've started looking at what triggers my anxiety and have started planning and expecting it, which in some ways prepares me for it.

Stbxw send me a text during her move basically saying that I have found someone else and have moved on, not sure what distorted thinking she was having. She said that if I didn't want this and don't want this then it matters. I was a little confused but curious, in short during the move she found a bedroom toy unopened in a garage which I purchased 6 months earlier for her and had forgotten about it. Still in box sealed etc. I didn't justify it, she ended with "Doesn't matter, I don't care, it's your life." Anyway I thought well yes you're right. I just did engage her distorted thinking. 

Although it did throw me, I wondered if in some way she was plan b ing me and hoping I would wait for her. Then I established that I was distorted in my thinking, so just let it go.

My therapist has stated that she will not accept any responsibility for this break up and that is in essence her problem, she's jealous that you I am not begging, waiting, contacting unecesserily and in general getting on with life. Therapist also said her anger with me is white hot, yet her decision to end it stipulates that she is not in a position to express it to me. Also I am not buying into it. She said she will in essence find pieces of your interaction to justify her decision. For example, "he's got a bedroom toy for someone else and he has already moved on" 

This doesn't make it any easier but now she moved I'll be hoping she minimises her contact and her acting out. I do stand my ground, but she can be very abrasive. She often masks her conversation and messages with a thinly lined veiled anger. I see it and try not to let it worry me. Although it is tough. I have thought that part of her behaviour is gas lighting. Finding blame to justify her decision. Not sure.

I'm just really surprised she's even concerned with me moving on, I told her that my focus is me and becoming a better man and the last thing at this stage I'm looking for is to dive into another relationship. 

Anyway little confused about her feelings and behaviour, said thing is if she is plan b ing me I have moved so far past that now that I won't bring that tension and stress back into my life. 

I know I am venting waffling a little but it sure does help to write in this site because it's like a release. Thanks for reading, any thoughts and insights are always appreciated. Even with all this I'm travelling down the road still.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

She is baiting you into her circle of drama. You have to learn to disengage. Only answer text if it pertains to you. Like signing divorce papers, and that is pretty much it. well, about the kids too, if you want her in their lives. Once she goes off topic, simply state that this conversation is irrelevant and simply hang up. Keep that calm,cool , collective mask in place. 

Her ego wants you to fight for her as if she were a prize. By your actions, have fun and learn to be happy with yourself. It will show her that you don't need her in your life. You are learning to be alone again. I think your too worried about the future. Accepting that we only have power over ourselves, and learn to be adaptive and flexible. Keep thinking about your improvements, and you can't control the future. But you will be strong on whatever outcome. Learning acceptance can lower anxiety. Knowing that we truly don't have much control as we want to believe over anything but our own actions. Learn to place the focus on you and your path.


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## shellgames (Sep 2, 2014)

Great plan, I am going through this same thing and I very confusing and have to keep reminding myself not to get caught in the drama shame guilt trap


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Fisty, very insightful and very helpful to me. Just had IC session was extremely positive and I am feeling much better with the road I am taking. Thanks again.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Just an update things have been good, detaching an disengaging with stbxw. There has been less contact from her for unnecessary things and I think I have truly processed that I no longer want her back, that I would be better off without her. Since becoming more assertive with her and more decisive and not being a doormat anymore, I seem to hear the words that I am "dictating" to her. This is my gauge that I am on track. Interactions are difficult and I pick my battles with her, but she no longer runs my life. Adjusting isn't easy to being single is not the easiest thing but is getting easier. I'm trying to be as practical as possible and not focus on the future too much. 

I understand I need to continue my work and just out of a LTR, I also want to be single for a while yet. I have had a few ladies ask me out casually and I do have a sexual need to fulfill. I am an honest guy but is it Ok if Im upfront with ladies about my need to be alone for a while but being happy to have some fun (sex) occasionally, or is it too soon. Im not seeking it out, it seems to be coming my way. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

As long as your up front. Sex is a great stress reliever. By being up front, neither side will try and invest more emotional energy to deepen the bond. Downside is, sometimes sex causes us to fall in love. But that is a low probability. It would take one of those love at first sight feelings to even have a chance, and those are real. Judging from the propositions that you have recieved, and your attitude towards it, it is highly unlikely.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Hi Faithful.. Being honest upfront is always a good thing. It lets the ladies know ahead of time that you're just wanting to have fun and not make any serious commitments. You're still detaching yourself and I'm so proud of you. Just be careful when you're out there fulfilling your needs.. Take care, your buddy Lynnie

Hiyeeee Mr.Fisty, hope all is well with you


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Things are okay. For some odd reason, after Thanksgiving dinner, we have wrestling matches. Bad timing, but it has become tradition. The winner tends to be my marine cousin. He was in martial arts, wrestling, learn close quarter combat, and is built like a brick house.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Lol, sounds fun Mr.Fisty. I'm glad you had a fun filled thanksgiving lol. I was with my husband and family for thanksgiving. It was nice, we talked, laughed n watch the cowboys game and then came home. We have kept it civil and respect each other much more then before. We're friends n nothing else. Ive been such a busy bee lately lol. 

Hope your thanksgiving went well Faithful it's nice to be back on here!


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Hey Faithful. 

First time I've looked at this thread. Didn't realise it was yours. Since you've had such good advice and you're coping so well there's little I can add,, but for the outposts of the Commonwealth it'd be remiss of me not tn stick my beak in.

Back on the last page, MrFisty said (essentially) learn to prioritise and like yourself,, and that it's OK to be selfish. When you can achieve that - or get near to it cuz you never master it completely - the result is a single happy you and a you who knows which selfish excesses you're prepared to reign in for a relationship. You do your own compromising rather than have it dictated to you - or taken by stealth cuz you haven't figured yourself out. You're doing good on that at the mo'. Keep some focus on it.


Seems you've stripped away the STBEx's alpha facade. I could wade in as to how and why,,, but do you really care? Better to focus elsewhere.

If she doesn't get too much,, and she might,, try to stay on good terms with her,, for SELFISH reasons. If the kids like her and her mum,, cool,,, free babysitters! You can persue 'man things' while they've got the kids,, like Sheilas,, or learn to play cricket. 

If she keeps up with the weepy bleating and blaming, put a stop to it anytime with "This is what you wanted." She can't get around that one.

Keep doing what you're doing. Good job Fisty et al.

Motherland out.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks FD, Fisty and Lynnie. 

It's a challenge daily for me, I feel I'm getting much better at it. It's difficult sometimes as I tend to lose focus on myself and start yapping on about her. 

I guess the sex will be nice and I am a straight up person and will be honest with the ladies. I'm starting to like myself a lot more. People close to me keep telling me they are so proud of me. It upsets me when they say this and I don't know why? I'm kind of proud of myself, my resilience is higher and improving. I'm getting more involved in life slowly but surely.

I am conscious of making sure my focus is me, I have set a daily reminder it my phone which beeps at 8am saying "put your needs first". 

I have disengaged the ex to a degree. Tomorrow we are telling the kids at 6pm. I suspect they know, but I wanted to to make sure I was strong enough to support them through it. Long story short I had to hold off telling the kids due to a custody dispute with my first wife which was resolved 2 days ago and I have had full time care of my kids confirmed by the Court  So now I can deliver a message of certainty and security for them. The stbxw will be there on advice of my counsellor and she wants to be. It will be a positive message delivered appropriately. 

Little stressed about that but it is one more tick in the box of things to get me further down the road.

Aside from that mishmash, life is actually improving and I feel a high degree of freedom now to make choices based on what I want and not what my stbxw wants or will think.

Still have the odd down moment but my positive focus now drives me to the next hurdle. 

This site is my online therapy group has helped me beyond words. Keep them coming, you're good people.

Ohh Lynnie we don't celebrate thanksgiving here is australia, but I wish we did. I'll be in the US next year


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

G'day Faith. Sorry I haven't been replying, but I've kind of been wrapped up in my own sh*t recently. But I do read your updates. You seem to be doing great, considering. Sorry that it looks like it's a done deal, but you're moving forward and that's a positive.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks dayone I read your updates 2. Keep going you're doing so well. All good, it is done deal, her cycle of life continues to repeat itself, sad thing is for her she won't own her share of it and it only serves to torment her. Just need to get through telling the kids today and once that's done I think I will feel a great deal better.

Kids will be told in around 12 hours. Feeling very anxious about this, I will def hold it together just worried stbxw won't but I can't control that. Went for a long walk just now which helped.

Have mixed feelings about how they will take it, but I will just support them as best I know how. I guess where I am lucky is that she isn't their mother and that she hasn't been living with us for over 3 months.

I'm dispationate about her now, whilst I am stuck dealing with her through a fairly lengthy settlement process (about 4 to 6) months, I also will have to deal with her seeing the children in the short term. 

Longer term I don't see her maintaining regular communication with the children. She is far too selfish and broken. In a conversation 2 days ago about telling the children she made the comment whilst crying "I will be in the kids lives forever" I said, "Well that may not be a choice for you, the kids may not want that longer term" she cried more. In fact, she went on to sob through the whole conversation. It ended shortly after that with her crying and saying she had to go. Attention seeking, victim behaviour. I saw right through it and made NC at allsince. In fact, I have very much adopted a NC rule for myself which helps, I compile a number of issues re finances etc and then send them all it one email. I havent sent many at all. 

I understand we are at different stages of our journey and position myself accordingly.

Adjusting to being alone and single at 42 is interesting considering my somewhat chaotic childhood. It's more challenging because of it, I struggle being alone, but through therapy I understand why now, which has helped.

I look back to how I was 4 weeks ago and think am I getting better, am I making forward progress, and I getting on. I answer that with a profound yes I am. The feelings I occasionally have do distort that somewhat and certain triggers sometimes make you feel like you're going backwards, but that I'm told is normal.

I have spent a lot more time at work recently and as a result have accumulated a large volume of holiday leave. I actually have about 2 years of paid leave available to me  

For the record I'm a Police Officer (long serving) a detective. I like my job it's rewarding and challenging, but I have been somewhat going through the paces through this, normal I know.

I'm planning an overseas trip next year to LAX and Orlando with my kids and my brothers family, maybe 2 to 3 weeks. Just have to work out where I am financially, will be after settlement next year in September. Kind of exciting. We are also booked in for a farm stay another 3 hours from home just before Christmas for 3 days with me the kids and my 20 year old niece, who wanted to tag along.

I'm also going to a birthday party which a work friend invited me 2. Apparently there is a lady I'm meant to meet there, made it very clear to my female work colleague (she has been one of my closest friends for a few years now-she is my trusted person) that I'm not ready for anything and need to be fair to myself and allow myself to heal. It's a local pub so a lot of people around, I will only know 2 of them. I guess it's new connections for me, but I am pretty apprehensive about meeting new people, I had thought about pulling out, but part of me feels that's the wrong way to go for me. I feel I need to challenge myself to get out and live again even if the setting might be confronting to me.

By this time tomorrow I'm hoping to be posting an update about telling the kids and it having gone much better than expected. Might even post it sooner. I'm having day off tomorrow (Monday) and having a massage and facial, my brother owns a number of businesses and there is no cost for me to use them. Looking forward to it.

TAM has become a bit of an online journal for my feelings, setbacks and alike. It feel like the safest place for me to get out some of the things in my head, it helps, so does the encouragement and advice.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

I wouldn't say I'm doing well. Sometimes feels like I'm playing snakes and ladders, blindfold.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Its up and down mate that's part of the journey, as long as you're on the road a that's all the matters. Stick to it and stay focused.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Keeping a journal is a good thing. Always strange when peopke delete their threads without saving them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Kids spoken to and told, went really well not as bad as anticipated. Another tick in the boxes for the good guys (not the nice guys lol). A lot more to tell but sleep,time now, mentally drained atm.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Eldest daughter cried a little during being told, stbxw hugged her, due to seperation they are used to her not living with us. For the kids sake through the next couple of months I will allow her to see and spend time with them. Will monitor them closely and communicate with her regarding her interactions. Had a conversation with her and told her she must now step back as she is no longer a parent to these children and that she had to respect my role now as a single father.

That almost broke her, not my intention. I took the opportunity to thank her for being present and available for the children, however I told her that I don't know what the future held and was not about to promise things I couldn't deliver on. I said that she would need to be guided by me with kids and step back, I said that she needed to understand that the kids are my priority and if her being in there lives became negative to them or me for that matter that I would let her know.

She was highly compliant, almost shocked by my steely positive facade. It wasn't there for her it was real and there for my kids. They need to feel security and witness a strong father that can carry them through this. 

The stbxw I believe at this stage is genuine in her love for the children, but I believe much of that is there to make herself feel better. I only care that she is good to the kids and they are happy. I will definitely be discussing appropriately with the kids what they would like that relationships or be like. Stbxw simply lacks insight about her own life and future let alone our marriage. She is broken beyond words and completely blind to it.

I also told my first wife about the breakup. She was good about it said she was sorry and in essence gave her the basics about the future with kids, she was supportive of that. She is mentally ill diagnosed bipolar but that is being managed. When she's good she's good, when she's bad she's awful.

So now to me I battle humiliation as a man over this whole thing, I think too much about being judged by others. Comes from my childhood and the loss of my first marriage in the most humiliating terms ever, I understand that. I'm mourning the loss of my second marriage and last night was like a final nail. I know most people don't really care and this is part of life and it'll become old news soon enough.

I have a great deal to be grateful for so many positives, so many good people in my life and so much to offer others and myself. My future is unknown and is scary. I have no choice but to walk into that fear because if I stand still I will lose myself. So I will definitely be trying to transform my story into something I can be proud of, I guess my journey so far is something I can be proud of.

My year has been hard I lost my mother in Feb this year and now second marriage is gone. Few of my close friends have said I've had an ordinary year, I laugh and generally respond with yes it's been tough, but it is what makes me interesting, I have a story to tell,it makes me extraordinary. That generates a smile most of the time

My first wife sent me text last night quite late saying "sooooo.....does this mean we can now start being friends as opposed to enemies?"

I haven't responded but will with something like, we were never enemies, all I will be focussing on is co parenting our children better and yes we can start communicating better for the children's sake.

For the record, I would never consider reconciliation with my first wife and for that mater nor would she with me. That's said our interactions have become easier since stbxw is out of picture and I started making decisions based on what I want and not what stbxw thinks I want or need.

Well there it is, still more hurdles to cross, more battles to have with one self and so on, but so far so good. I certainly in much better place to ask for what I deserve and what I want now. I'm putting myself first above everything else from now on.

Thanks again for reading and commenting and constructive thoughts and ideas are always considered and generally implemented.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

When I broke up with my ex-fiance, I think I mentioned, I became my old playful and flirty self again. Well, I became this positive person, and naturally women and other people wanted to be around me. I did get a few numbers after the break up, including from a stripper. Once your done with the grieving process, you will have the time to forge the person you want to be. It is a lot about mindset. By trying new things and having fun, guess what, you become this fun loving person. Seek out what brings you excitement, and that you find fulfilling. It will bring a positive energy into your life. Find people to enjoy those activities with, and you may heal a lot faster than you realize. Don't feel humiliated, instead take pride of the positive changes you have made. Take pride that your forging a new, and better person. It is all about the mindset.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Fisty that's pretty good advice, it's about mindset. It's also about acceptance. A number from a stripper well one might ask was that you having fun? Haha. I'm actually getting there and I'm starting to see a life without my stbxw. The kids were wonderful today and are coping great, that has helped me. I had worried for some time about telling the kids, that is done now. 

Anyway thanks for your kind insightful words I regularly come back and read them to remind myself when I go off track. 

Sleeping better, smiling more, connecting with people more, I'm becoming nice to be around.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Have had a pretty ordinary last 24 hours not as bad as they used to be. Bit confronted at work Xmas party with large group of people who know my situation, all ok. Just one girl who is very close with my stbxw was somewhat ****y/smart to me. She s not a nice person, alcoholic high conflict trouble maker. I basically enjoyed myself and that showed her I didn't let it get to me.

I am working hard to settle everything and to avoid a long battle over assets. I'm working hard to disengage where possible and picking my battles. I'm found it hard as stbxw is out and about on FB and other social media with this same girl. I know this only because friends/ family are telling me. Why does this effect me, not sure, because I'm out and about doing the same thing just not advertising it at all. The ex isn't posting stuff apparently it's this girl. Nothing terrible really.

Just had a little bit of anxiety and trying not to worry about what she is doing but it seems she is outwardly baiting me now via a third party. Im just waiting for the next social media with perhaps her new OM whom Im sure exists. Not sure how I will manage that but I guess the same way I have managed all the other hurdles by being more introspective about it and being a bit more selfish. I know it's over.

I do not use social media FB, Instagram and alike, they a time wasters and not for me. 

Tonight I'm going to a birthday party with a lot of ladies there, stressing a little but should take my mind off things. 

I've been going so well the last couple of weeks and for some reason I've just been set off the last couple of days. I am strategically trying to disengage her but the kids still want to spend time with her. I have managed to dwindle down the summer holidays which is 6 weeks down to 4 days to her during the day only no sleep overs at her place.

She does like the kids but she likes herself more, I'm speaking to my IC on the 15/12 on a plan to effectively disengage her and move towards NC after settlement. Yet that's probably up to 4 months away. I definitely think contact with her is a trigger, even though I matter a fact and she observing the 180. 

Is what I'm feeling normal, it's a mixture of anger, sadness and probably a few other emotions?


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Dinner was nice adult conversation was enjoyable. My older female friend posted something on social media about being there without me knowing, the day and age we live in, but not for me. 

Realised that whilst an opportunity was handed to me with a lovely lady, I found myself being somewhat selfish and not wanting to go there, I'm not ready at all and felt very little emotionally towards her. Normal I guess?

Came home to two meaningless emails from stbxw one about my daughters birthday at 9.40pm and one at 11.10pm about daughters Apple ID. My boundary setting has been ok I have made it clear that all communication must be by email. She sneaks a text occasionally but it is much less frequent. The problem is now she emails almost daily. I only respond once a day in the morning. I only check email 3 to 4 times a day.

I have IC in a week so need to work through balancing boundaries around children and contact against not causing WWII during this stage of progressing financial settlement. She often takes any withdrawal or boundary setting with the children as me trying to push her out of their lives. 

It seems to be a balancing act so I am working hard on final settlement which in all reality could take up to 4 months. My feeling is she is cake eating big time. She left me and marriage but wants to stay in the picture. 

The other thing I am finding is that whilst I realise it's over that when I see her or have contact with her, it triggers a level of anxiety in me the following day or even the previous day to known contact happening.

I hold no hope at all for R I no longer want it or her. I guess I just have to ride this storm of settlement out by setting the most appropriate boundaries I can and then once settlement is complete and my kids and are a ina financially secure position I can then start enforcing stricter boundaries.

In relation to the kids they do like spending time with her, but in essence the distance between her and them is evident as she hasn't lived here in over 4 months now. I guess in time that bond will slowly dwindle with a little help from me. I'm being selfish I don't want her in the kids lives long term anymore. In the short to medium term I am ok as it is helpful for the kids to assist them in detaching from her.

I know I'm rambling a little but it helps me to type on here.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Just broke the news to my 90 year old father. In short his response was "You have but one life to live my son and it's very short, you have so much living to do and so much happiness to experience. Know that I have never been prouder of you than on this day, your strength is amazing. Your children have the most wonderful father"
Needless to say I lost it. I will never ever forget this day. Crying just typing this. My dad doesn't say much but we sat for some time talking about life and loves, some he had lost as well. My emotions overflowed and from the adversity and fear of telling my idol, came peace and acceptance, but more importantly came a memory that I will never ever forget. Today is a wonderful day.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It is a good method, weening them away from her. Plus as they get older and find new friends, and form new connections, she will probably be an afterthought. As for women, if your not ready, try and be friends. It couldn't hurt, and you may never know down the line. Just be truthful. Right now your healing, and your energy is focused on you and the kids, and you would like to be friends if possible.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

hang in there friend


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks kindly, these little snap shots of wisdom and supportive comments really help me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just read this thread today. Initially shocked at how accepting you were of your wifes behavior. You have gotten much stronger. 

Your wife definitely has more going on than your fear of her cheating etc. That is just a common gaslighting technique and is a universal element in the cheaters script. There is no way she had to break up her adopted family over your supposed groundless insecurity. You're a detective for God's sake.

What really galls me is that she has hurt your girls just like their mother did. Her misdeeds are worse because she knew in advance what your family has been through. 

She cries a lot. She's not crying for you or your kids misery, she's crying because she can't have your kids and take them with her to whatever life she now has planned. Her weeping just hides a heart of ice. Always remember, actions count, her words mean nothing.

I was going to tell you coparenting was a terrible idea but I see in the last posts you have already come to that conclusion. There are some terribly poison snakes in your country. They're no more dangerous to your kids than your stbx. 

Look at the friends she's keeping now. Birds of a feather. I'm guessing when the truth comes out it will be both shocking and obvious.

When you get everything legaly finalized, give her the bums rush.

Good luck and prayers to you and your kids,

Chap


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, nmmng is a great book for some people depending on their back ground. Mmslp, linked to below and downloadable at amazon is required reading for all men, especially before you start dating. Njf, the other link is just as necessary. Make sure you are well versed in all three.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Also consider getting 'Hold On To Your N.U.T.S'. Just ordered it myself as it has been highly recommended.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks Chap, those words mean a great deal to me. Whatever happens she will be DEAD TO ME to me once I'm protected legally. Thanks for the links will help me pass the time and learn a great deal. My kids are already distancing themselves. I'm disengaging as much as possible now, I've been having a little anxiety but I'm managing a lot better atm. I love the Heart of Ice line, so so true. Her tears mean nothing to me anymore, I was and am angry but that is ok I use it to help me. She is a manipulative POS. 

That made me feel better, I still do IC every month and it just affirms I'm on track, it helps. D1 I will def look at that book as well. Thanks people you always manage to make me feel better when I a bit down. I did laugh at the snakes line also, but don't forget our spiders as well they are deadly as well. 

As my trusted friend said, you've dodged a bullet my boy with this one. That said I have learnt a lot and am continuing to learn more about myself and what I need.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Just an update, doing pretty good. Last night the stbxw called to organise taking her cats and attending daughters birthday, dropped on me she would be changing her name back to her maiden name, my response was aloof as it didn't worry me at all, I just "that's good".

Not too worried about it anymore, her victim mentality and circle of drama is no longer for me. Life is improving and the tension in my life is gone, a large part of that is because the cause of that tension has also gone


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Love gives us a rose color tinted view of things, and when we detach, we become more critical and we are more capable of analyzing the picture around us. Emotions tend to get in the way, because it forces us to think in a certain way, it wants to be felt, and validated. When we are happy, we tend to share that happiness with others, when we are angry we want others to understand what we are angry about. Since we are social creatures, we want a connection. A connection is usually a healthy thing as long as it is reciprocated and understood. But it is unhealthy to want a connection with an emotionally walled off person. That is why guarded people have lousy relationships, not much information or understanding is being transmitted, and at best it is only a superficial relationship, and connection. People feel more love when they are understood.


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Just an update, pretty much completely detached and moved on. Settlement progressing well. Will be done soon. Kids doing great. The work I have done on myself seems to have had a very positive effect on my level of attraction to the opposite sex. It is actually incredible how a self assured man seems to attract the opposite sex. I have been having some fun, but very proud of the fact that I have been extremely honest with the ladies and that is also always well received. 

Life is better than it ever was and I'm sure I might stumble, but boy have a learnt what I want in a realtionship. I'm very introspective now and really can't believe I've come through this. 

To all my TAM friends, you have been a big part of that transition and learning. I may not comment as much these days but rest assured, I'm always watching and reading. Thank you all.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Good job. The problem people face is looking at the ending of the journey instead of looking to the next step. That is the significance of a journey, it is made of many steps and some people lose sight of it. It is good to have major goals, but the major goal can seem so daunting. So you break up those major goals into smaller ones you can manage. People can learn a lot from your transformation.

Also, great job on being a catch. Being honest up front causes people to at least respect you. Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You mentioned in a previous post how badly you felt about the ending of your first marriage and now you have the ending of this marriage to deal with.

Your first marriage ended because your wife is mentally unstable. Bipolar is no ones fault. Not being able to live with it is not a fault. I had two uncles that lost their marriages because of it. They were wonderful people but when the disease was in control they were impossible.

Your second wife didn't want kids of her own. She dreamt of a family though and moved in on yours. Oops, that turned out be more than she could handle. A little too much family, haha. So she has taken her leave.

Giving people love and taking care of them is not a fault. How the behave is all on them. You were a man and a father that can be depended on. Your soon to be ex will rue this day if she is at all responsible. If she isn't she will just continue to wander.

Read those books, the insight there in will amaze a man as popular culture gets thrown under the bus in favor of common sense and biology.

Props to you Faithful123


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks guys and not that I am boasting by OMG, I have been spending some time with a Norwegian girl, who is educated and has a brain, ohh she is also a model  she so lucky to have found me  taking things slow and developing anything one day at a time. No certainty just seeing where is goes using what I have learnt and am learning.

Thanks for the kind words you guys are the best, I will never forget this place and will always be back to watch, learn, offer support where possible. To Fisty, Dayone and Longwalk and chap, a special thank you. You opened my mind and in turn made me the man I knew I always was.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

any chance at an update???


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Faithfulllll how are ya? Missed ya buddy! Hope all is well?


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