# The 180



## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

So I ve been doing the 180 for I'd say 4 days or so and my question is why am I all of a sudden a a$$hole? Everything I do she think I'm being an a$$hole. This morning she dropped our baby off at 6AM so she could make it to work and I could drop the baby off at the baby sitter before I went to work around 730AM and I keep it short and civil and as I'm standing there she says. you dont have to be such an a$$hole. I asked what I did to make me an a$$hole and her response was I can just tell . . .?? I'm confused. i use to bend over back wards to make everything easy on her thinking she would come back and now I've slowed down a bit and i'm an a$$hole. its kind of hard to hear because i ve done everything to help her. Any Thoughts?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Maybe its her way of showing emotion...who knows.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

You probably would benefit from looking at No More Mr Nice Guy. Your wife is confused by your sudden change of behavior and her loss of control over you is making her act out. 

Whether or not the 180 is right for you is up to you to decide. I don't know that I blindly sign off on it; but it is a powerful tool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I do think its her way of acting because shes not in control and maybe by calling me names I'll give in and beg her to stay because she wants me to think I'm still losing her. Tmw I'm telling her no contact for a month then we can decide what we want and take action. No more waiting after that. Maybe by pushing her close to a divorce she will see what shes missing.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> You probably would benefit from looking at No More Mr Nice Guy. Your wife is confused by your sudden change of behavior and her loss of control over you is making her act out.


Plus "Married Men Sex Life Primer".

Keep up a hard 180. Never ever beg her to come back or even text her for random things. Man up and have her come begging to you.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Can someone please explain to this newbie exactly what a 180 is (and why is it called that)?

Thanks.


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## ImperfectMomma (May 2, 2012)

My H is getting mad at me too....because I give him one word answers instead of inviting him into my lofe and telling him everything about my day. I think they just don't like being treated like they aren't the center of our world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> Can someone please explain to this newbie exactly what a 180 is (and why is it called that)?
> 
> Thanks.


The Healing Heart: The 180


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> Can someone please explain to this newbie exactly what a 180 is (and why is it called that)?
> 
> Thanks.


i can't find the link at the moment FF. Essentially, it's a list of about 35 action points about how to compose and comport yourself with regard to your ex. The main point being to do a 180 degree direction from throwing yourself at them. Put up walls, only speak when absolutely necessary, etc. Perhaps some kind soul can find a link for you...

[Ah, cross-posted with the very kind Keko]


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> Can someone please explain to this newbie exactly what a 180 is (and why is it called that)?
> 
> Thanks.


I do understand what the 180 is. I know its about bettering myself and taking control of my life. So I guess the problem she is having is it looks as if I'm moving on with life without her so now she doesnt have the comfort of knowing she could come back whenever and now her best bet is to call me names. I would have to say since I ve been following these rules everyday I go a little more not thinking about her. Got a long road ahead because the pain is still outweighing the relief.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I do understand what the 180 is. I know its about bettering myself and taking control of my life. So I guess the problem she is having is it looks as if I'm moving on with life without her so now she doesnt have the comfort of knowing she could come back whenever and now her best bet is to call me names. I would have to say since I ve been following these rules everyday I go a little more not thinking about her. Got a long road ahead because the pain is still outweighing the relief.


Thanks, everyone. The 180 is good advice. I agree, Orange, its about bettering yourself and taking control of your life. That's what's keeping me going. The little steps toward controlling my own life do help me feel better. But you're right, it is a long road. we can only hope that one day the relief will outweigh the pain.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm having a bit of trouble today because after i pick up my daughter she will be at my moms house helping her cook dinner. Not sure why she wanted to come over knowing I will be there. Not to sure how to act tonight? Do I stay strong on the 180? last time she came over she spent the night. Do I say no to that? If she wants to talk do I open up?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

If she wants to talk, you listen. Provide statements that your listening, but no advice. If she is up for talking, it gives you a chance to see what she's thinking.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I do think its her way of acting because shes not in control and maybe by calling me names I'll give in and beg her to stay because she wants me to think I'm still losing her. Tmw I'm telling her no contact for a month then we can decide what we want and take action. No more waiting after that. Maybe by pushing her close to a divorce she will see what shes missing.


nc helped me tremendously. i will warn you it can get worse before it gets better. first week into nc, chad came home while i was away and moved 95% of his stuff out. at first i freaked out. then i realized he was just trying to regain control and was angry. by turning off my "chad switch" so to speak, i was able to start healing.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

lulubelle said:


> nc helped me tremendously. i will warn you it can get worse before it gets better. first week into nc, chad came home while i was away and moved 95% of his stuff out. at first i freaked out. then i realized he was just trying to regain control and was angry. by turning off my "chad switch" so to speak, i was able to start healing.


I wish I could find a common ground of not contacting her but still giving an effort to make things work. I dont want to completely push her away with NC. I still want her to know that I want our marriage to work but at the same time I dont want to look weak. The first time she left I had to give it my all to bring her back and show her I was a changed man. Everything was good for a Month then I snapped my humerus bone in half and was put on disability for 4 months with pay luckily. I went into a depression and couldnt help much around the house and a week before i went back to work she left. Saying we fought to much and it went back to the way it was. Now thats a 2x4 to the face.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> So I ve been doing the 180 for I'd say 4 days or so... I asked what I did to make me an a$$hole


If you're asking her what you did to make you an A$$hole then you don't understand how to correctly implement the 180.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

I am a very impatient, very argumentative man. This is going to be a very very long and tough road for me. Both my wife and I are stubborn and argumentative. But, I have not argued with her since she left. I have answered her nasty texts without snapping or pointing blame, but I have done some groveling and "please see this the way I see it, I am changing...." you know, empty words to her. I am the one with the brilliant idea that she should stay with her parents, and that is the straw that broke the camel's back. Now she is "done". We didn't really get into a ton of fights all the time, but the bad ones were really bad. Anyway, the problem with this 180 is that the kids stay with her, and whenever I go over there, she is there. But, I put on a cheery face whenever I am there, and I have lost 16 lbs with 20 lbs to go on my goal. Now I just gotta quit answering her texts unless it is a "yes" or "no" answer to a question about the kids....


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> If you're asking her what you did to make you an A$$hole then you don't understand how to correctly implement the 180.


What would have been the correct way of handling it then?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mark72 said:


> I am a very impatient, very argumentative man. This is going to be a very very long and tough road for me. Both my wife and I are stubborn and argumentative. But, I have not argued with her since she left. I have answered her nasty texts without snapping or pointing blame, but I have done some groveling and "please see this the way I see it, I am changing...." you know, empty words to her. I am the one with the brilliant idea that she should stay with her parents, and that is the straw that broke the camel's back. Now she is "done". We didn't really get into a ton of fights all the time, but the bad ones were really bad. Anyway, the problem with this 180 is that the kids stay with her, and whenever I go over there, she is there. But, I put on a cheery face whenever I am there, and I have lost 16 lbs with 20 lbs to go on my goal. Now I just gotta quit answering her texts unless it is a "yes" or "no" answer to a question about the kids....


Mark the 180 has been a tough process. I want to break down and just start showing affection again but I know I cant. Stay strong my friend.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> What would have been the correct way of handling it then?


Stop asking questions.

Basic rule of the 180 is be strong and independent and come across as somewhat distant and detached, as if you're just fine without her.

You aren't all that concerned with what she thinks about you.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Mark the 180 has been a tough process. I want to break down and just start showing affection again but I know I cant. Stay strong my friend.


Thanks, Orange.
We both have our faults. Mine are the only ones I can control


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm having a ***** of a time with the 180... I already sent a love letter and broke down when she texted me to see the kids yesterday.

I know it's hard.. I have to learn it too.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm having a ***** of a time with the 180... I already sent a love letter and broke down when she texted me to see the kids yesterday.
> 
> I know it's hard.. I have to learn it too.


Its very hard she hasnt even come over yet and I'm already planning things in my head as to trying to see if she wants to stay the night and watch a movie or something. Not sure whats going to happen I just pray its the right thing. I'll let yall know how things go tonight.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

So when she stays the night she STAYS the night?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Well today was a no call no show. Ha I just don't understand some people sometimes. My mom was waiting for her to show up never did and never called and wouldn't answer her phone calls. Let me tell you my mom was the mom to her she never had gave her everything and bent over backwards for her. Found out she was out at a BBQ place with all her girlfriends instead. Real classy. Guess I wont have any trouble sticking to the 180. 

SADWITHTWOGIRLS - She has slept over one night and we just cuddled no sexual stuff and just a kiss. but the next day she said she did it because she felt obligated.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> So I ve been doing the 180 for I'd say 4 days or so and my question is why am I all of a sudden a a$$hole? Everything I do she think I'm being an a$$hole. This morning she dropped our baby off at 6AM so she could make it to work and I could drop the baby off at the baby sitter before I went to work around 730AM and I keep it short and civil and as I'm standing there she says. you dont have to be such an a$$hole. I asked what I did to make me an a$$hole and her response was I can just tell . . .?? I'm confused. i use to bend over back wards to make everything easy on her thinking she would come back and now I've slowed down a bit and i'm an a$$hole. its kind of hard to hear because i ve done everything to help her. Any Thoughts?


She is sh1t-testing you. Look it up, read PUA/seduction theory. Remain stoic and unrattled if you are still interested in her. Do not be drawn into her arguments. Let her own her own chaos. It's her crazy world. You don't need to make it yours. Typically a good response to a sh1t test is to just ignore it and thus show that she cannot control/affect you emotionally.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I do think its her way of acting because shes not in control and maybe by calling me names I'll give in and beg her to stay because she wants me to think I'm still losing her. Tmw I'm telling her no contact for a month then we can decide what we want and take action. No more waiting after that. Maybe by pushing her close to a divorce she will see what shes missing.


I'd suggest not telling her many of your plans, if any. For several reasons but the main ones being you give her an advantage and you lose respect if you need to do a U-turn. You have nothing to explain to her, if she is leaving you.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

ImperfectMomma said:


> My H is getting mad at me too....because I give him one word answers instead of inviting him into my lofe and telling him everything about my day. I think they just don't like being treated like they aren't the center of our world.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about he loves you, he's hurting and he's trying anything he can think of to get another chance? How about it's nothing to do with needing to be the center of your world, but everything to do with simply *not losing you*?


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> What would have been the correct way of handling it then?


In response to her "you're acting like an a$$hole":

"I do not feel the need to justify myself or engage you in an argument. Have a good day."

Walk away.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

GetTough said:


> In response to her "you're acting like an a$$hole":
> 
> "I do not feel the need to justify myself or engage you in an argument. Have a good day."
> 
> Walk away.


Right idea but sort of geeky and righteous. It won't have the intended effect, she might even laugh.

I'd simply ignore it, maybe give her half a smile and not say a single word.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

or, "i don't want to fight with you."


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you all for your comments they are all helping me through my day by day. 
Last night was the night I ve been waiting for. She finally broke a little bit and wanted to talk. After ignoring her 15 calls and 10 text messages she started to get upset and threaten divorce on me telling me fine have it your way. Haha really? My way? No sorry you left me. Then she said she needed to get her bed and microwave and other etc because she found her own place and is moving in next week. So i simply responded ok let me know when you need it. Next text was Fu*k off. Ha so crazy. Anyways She kept calling and I finally answered. She blew up and wanted to talk about things so I calmly did and let her do most of the talking. It came down to me saying Im sorry things happened this way even though I wasnt the one who left I thanked her for making me a better man and wished her the best in life for our daughters sake. I told her no hard feelings that i do and always will love her but the time has come for me to move on. Anyways by the end of the night she has now agreed for MC for a month to see if anything is left. Also I recommended that we get our own place instead of living in my parents guest house. We will see how the rest of this week and next week at our first MC goes.


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## burgh_mom (Jul 9, 2012)

I am where you are Orange1. The 180 with NC seems to be geared towards spouses who are unfaithful. My H is not cheating, to my knowledge, yet. But at the same time, you need to hold on to your values. Is it ok to retain physical but not emotional contact? What message does that give her? That it's ok to use you? Or is it just relief and an opportunity to show her you love her still. Tough call. Your W sounds similar to my H, selfish and disrespectful. 

Over 4 mos, I've also learned that setting deadlines and ultimatums with someone who isn't ready to reconcile is worthless at best and at worst might provoke your spouse to opt for divorce. She wants space. She wants time. She wants separate. Give it to her. Keep yourself busy in the meantime, doing more than texting her. If you have to, get a journal and write letters in there but don't send them. Back off and only call once a week maybe. Or send a handwritten letter with a card. 

The magic of the 180 imho is that it's a change-up pitch. The purpose is to steer your rudder towards growth and away from insanity (doing the same over and over). But there has to be a happy medium because the longer you are separated, the less chance you have to reconcile. Check in and let her know you miss her. Offer a date night. Offer to pay for counseling. Be prepared to go without her. Even if she refuses, hang in there and go get help to grow yourself into the kind of person you wish you were.

Four days feels like four weeks. I know. I went a week without hearing a peep from him and it felt like the longest year of my life. Go build a support structure. I joined a Divorce Care group at my church. It helps. Best wishes.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Then she said she needed to get her bed and microwave and other etc because she found her own place and is moving in next week. So i simply responded ok let me know when you need it. Next text was Fu*k off. Ha so crazy.


See? There's the hard proof that she was pulling out all the stops trying to get a response out of you and finally, since you didn't take the bait she lashed out in frustration and out came the insults.

Nice job holding your ground. 

I might have gone one step further and said to her "I'm not sure about MC at this point, I'll have to think about it and get back to you" but all in all you're doing just fine.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

burgh_mom said:


> I am where you are Orange1. The 180 with NC seems to be geared towards spouses who are unfaithful. My H is not cheating, to my knowledge, yet. But at the same time, you need to hold on to your values. Is it ok to retain physical but not emotional contact? What message does that give her? That it's ok to use you? Or is it just relief and an opportunity to show her you love her still. Tough call. Your W sounds similar to my H, selfish and disrespectful.
> 
> Over 4 mos, I've also learned that setting deadlines and ultimatums with someone who isn't ready to reconcile is worthless at best and at worst might provoke your spouse to opt for divorce. She wants space. She wants time. She wants separate. Give it to her. Keep yourself busy in the meantime, doing more than texting her. If you have to, get a journal and write letters in there but don't send them. Back off and only call once a week maybe. Or send a handwritten letter with a card.
> 
> ...


Thank you burgh for that response thats exactly the medium im trying to find. I dont want to completely shut her out because shes so hard headed that she will take it as he doesnt want me and I need to move on instead of trying to feel like she gave in. I havent really said on here to much of our situation but I do have another thread. Basically we are young adults shes 22 I'm 24 and we have a daughter. She missed out on her 21 years and is now living them up. So selfish of her, its like she wants to be a part time mommy and the other half of the week be on vacation and do what she wants. So I think she is mainly confused and blaming things on the past. I was put on disability for 4 months and things got stressful I couldnt help out at all. 1 week before I get cleared to get on with normal life she left. This is may be a little low but its like the whole 9 months of her pregnacy her hormones were outragoues and i stuck by her side no matter what she did and she couldnt stick by mine for 4 months.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> See? There's the hard proof that she was pulling out all the stops trying to get a response out of you and finally, since you didn't take the bait she lashed out in frustration and out came the insults.
> 
> Nice job holding your ground.
> 
> I might have gone one step further and said to her "I'm not sure about MC at this point, I'll have to think about it and get back to you" but all in all you're doing just fine.


Yes I was very proud of myself and for once I felt in control. unfortunetly I gave in this morning and things went to hell. Trying to convince her that if we got our own place we could make it work instead of living in my parents 400SQFT guest house. She said she wasnt to sure about it that something tells her to do it but her mind says no. I told her thats her heart telling her to do it but her mind is changing that. Once again shes back in control and I'm a mess.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> unfortunetly I gave in this morning


Damn. 



Orange1 said:


> things went to hell.


No surprise there.



Orange1 said:


> Trying to convince her that if we got our own place we could make it work .. I told her thats her heart telling her to do it but her mind is changing that.


It hurts to read this. 



Orange1 said:


> Once again shes back in control and I'm a mess.


Get back on the wagon. It's going to be tough, just like that first cigarette or shot of whiskey after quitting for a while; but heck it's your only choice.

I just hope she doesn't see through your recent behavior as nothing more than a charade.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Good luck, nothing wrong with re-engaging.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Once again she called me and I broke down. Doing the patethic begging her and saying it will all be different. She says no way in hell shes coming back and she just doesnt feel it anymore. I told her it takes an action of love to feel love. She said well I'm going to MC with you isnt that an action. She wants to go so I can have closure that its over. Even though I dont think a MC is going to say we should go seperate ways. I guess its time to see if MC can really change someones heart because hers has moved on.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

You went from this:

Effective implementation of the 180 with positive results:



Orange1 said:


> Last night was the night I ve been waiting for. She finally broke a little bit and wanted to talk. After ignoring her 15 calls and 10 text messages.. I told her no hard feelings that i do and always will love her but the time has come for me to move on. Anyways by the end of the night she has now agreed for MC for a month to see if anything is left.


To this:



Orange1 said:


> Once again she called me and I broke down. Doing the patethic begging her and saying it will all be different. She says no way in hell shes coming back and she just doesnt feel it anymore.


In a span of about 24 hours. 

This thread is a perfect example of exactly how to implement the 180 and how not to do it.

Orange, there's so much volatility in your relationship right now it could go anywhere.

You need to get a grip and find a way to stop going to pieces because right now you are truly your own worst enemy.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You went from this:
> 
> Effective implementation of the 180 with positive results:
> 
> ...



I know, I know I need to stay with it. I got the results I wanted out of doing it and then I tried to go get them when I should have just waited it out. Now I ve got to re start it and hope that it works again because I may have pushed this one to far this time. I feel hopeless and the things she says when she gets mad is so hurtful. Once again starting back over 3rd time is the charm. Next time we talk will be MC on tuesday. Hope everything goes good then.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Once again starting back over 3rd time is the charm. Next time we talk will be MC on tuesday. Hope everything goes good then.


I don't think that "3rd time is the charm" applies to going back and forth between being strong, independent and distant and then reverting to begging and pleading.

I'd also like to suggest that MC doesn't "change a persons heart".

If she doesn't love you anymore than this thing is finished. If she does love you but there are issues such as communication, habits, routines, patterns, mental issues and such that can be worked on to make the relationship viable, then MC may provide the tools and strategy to do just that.

But jeez man you just gotta find a way to keep it together. Trying to remain calm and not drop to your knees in pieces at the thought of losing your wife, is only the beginning of a very long journey.

There just might be the possibility of a save here, but you have to stop shooting yourself in the foot. Every time you waffle on this, more damage is being done.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> I don't think that "3rd time is the charm" applies to going back and forth between being strong, independent and distant and then reverting to begging and pleading.
> 
> I'd also like to suggest that MC doesn't "change a persons heart".
> 
> ...



Your right I'm going to continue to be strong no going back on this one. She doesnt say she doesnt love me anymore she said she does love me but shes throwing out the I love you but not in love with you thing. Shes saying she doesnt feel the same about the relationship anymore because she cant be the wife I want her to be. What ever that means. There are just communiucation issues and trust issues that we need to get by. Nothing serious but she has always been a quitter in everything she does. Just like school it got hard and she quit. When will she grow up.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

When will she grow up? Maybe never. 

In the same boat, my friend.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Shes saying she doesnt feel the same about the relationship anymore because she cant be the wife I want her to be. What ever that means.


It means you can't be the husband she wants you to be.



Orange1 said:


> There are just communiucation issues and trust issues that we need to get by. Nothing serious


There's a big problem right here. She thinks the communication and trust issues are serious, and you don't. These problems didn't just suddenly arise overnight, they've been there for a while. You dismiss them, you make no attempt to fix them and you just maintain the status quo while she finally gives up what you have always seen as "nagging and complaining" because she realizes you're never going to change.



Orange1 said:


> but she has always been a quitter in everything she does. Just like school it got hard and she quit. When will she grow up.


Now that she's finally throwing her hands up and walking away, you say "oh she's a quitter she was always like that and she's never going to grow up".

Sure your theory is neat and tidy and absolves you of any and all blame, and perhaps it will make it easier for you to live with yourself some day- but do you really want to live without her?

If not, time to get moving on those issues that aren't so serious to you. 

Time is short.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Kindi I do see your point, at the time I didnt realize those were issues at all. Now I see that those were our biggest problems. When I meant nothing serious I meant nothing that cant be fixed. I'm def. working on myself to fix those issues. Unfortunately words dont help only actions do. Its tough to show her those issues are being worked out when she wont give me the time of day. I know I can point the finger and blame her and that makes it easier. I did have my side of problems that caused all of this. I just wish she realized that she has molded me into the husband that she wants. I ve done a complete 180 on my self as far as relationships go. I'm hoping the MC will continue to help us develop the skills needed to have a healthy relationship. That was the main reason I broke today was to show her and tell her how I ve changed. Once again words arent as strong as actions. How do I show her when we dont even barley see each other??


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

180 day 1. I went over to the in-laws to see the kids. She was there. I didn't aknowledge her presence. One-word answer. When I left I said, "Bye everybody"
I get a text 10 minutes later "You hate me dont you".
Just one time and I get a hurt text. Tells me all I need to know. Time will help heal these wounds for both of us.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I know, I know I need to stay with it. I got the results I wanted out of doing it and then I tried to go get them when I should have just waited it out. Now I ve got to re start it and hope that it works again because I may have pushed this one to far this time. I feel hopeless and the things she says when she gets mad is so hurtful. Once again starting back over 3rd time is the charm. Next time we talk will be MC on tuesday. Hope everything goes good then.


Play it cool. If you see signs of hope from her, remember they are tests too, not deliberate, most likely instinctive for the most part. You have to treat her as though you are very unsure you want her back for some time. Try to really feel that way, so it's not fake. She has to feel she is quite possibly losing you. During that time you have to prove you have changed in ways that are deeply meaningful to her, with actions rather than words. That means you need to have a crystal clear understanding of why she's leaving. Take actions that prove you have changed in ways that are centered on YOUR future, not to buy her. i.e. Let her see you getting ahead, on your own, for yourself, taking actions that surprise her because they contradict her issues with you (reasons she is leaving). Show her you've changed but not in ways that are obviously done to persuade her.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Once again words arent as strong as actions. How do I show her when we dont even barley see each other??


Now is not the time to show her anything. Now is the time to allow things to cool, allow the emotions to settle down and at least get to the point where you can start talking through some of these things in the presence of a (hopefully) competent qualified marriage counselor.

You do that by pulling back, by not begging and pleading and continuing to fuel the emotional fires that are raging strong, and give her a reason to want to put in the extraordinary effort that it will take to save this marriage. 

People want what they can't have. Conversely, weak and insecure is a huge turnoff, which is why your wife responds the way she does when you effectively implement the 180, compared to her response when you go to pieces.

Your task right now is really quite simple (from a practical not an emotional standpoint). Slowly and cautiously implement the 180, keep your wife "on the hook" so to speak, and as long as you're both willing and able, work your way through therapy, listen to her complaints about the issues in the marriage and find ways to go about fixing them.

Lose the attitude that "she's a quitter because she's young and immature" and continue to work on ways to improve yourself, work on your faults, regain your wife's interest, and get this thing turned around.

Remember what might seem unimportant to you might just mean the world to her.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Your right I'm going to continue to be strong no going back on this one. She doesnt say she doesnt love me anymore she said she does love me but shes throwing out the I love you but not in love with you thing. Shes saying she doesnt feel the same about the relationship anymore because she cant be the wife I want her to be. What ever that means. There are just communiucation issues and trust issues that we need to get by. Nothing serious but she has always been a quitter in everything she does. Just like school it got hard and she quit. When will she grow up.


"I love you but I'm not in love with you" means she feels affection and attachment but not attraction. Women are attracted to STRENGTH and PRO-SOCIAL behavior (compassion). However, compassion is INCREDIBLY difficult to demonstrate without it appearing supplicative and weak in your situation. So focus on being STRONG with the barest hint of compassion. Emphasis on STRONG, but remember strength without compassion is brutality. Do not cross that line. Getting the balance right is incredibly difficult, I know where you're at. It's real hard. Any indication that you want her back is WEAK because it hands over your power. It is unattractive. She will pity you and no woman wants a man like that.

You have to act strong in your OWN interests and wait until you know she is committed to a real effort to making your marriage work before you express your feelings. There is a risk right now she is only going to MC out of pity and guilt. That's not a good place for you to be at. You must think hard about why she is leaving you and understand what she means by "cannot be the wife you want her to be". Do not try to persuade her with words. e.g. She may mean you've been too critical of her (I don't know)... but if you think that's the case you would simply stop criticizing her. But figure out the real reason(s) for your situation. Don't call her a quitter. Don't tell her to grow up. Stop trying to change her. Listen to her. Yes she is acting out, because she is in distress and people DO act like kids when they are hurting. Communication and trust issues are the least of your problems right now. Don't rearrange the deck chairs on the TITANIC man. Focus on showing her you are deeply unsure about the relationship and taking actions for YOURSELF that demonstrate she is wrong about the issues she has with you. That's your best chance.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Mark72 said:


> 180 day 1. I went over to the in-laws to see the kids. She was there. I didn't aknowledge her presence. One-word answer. When I left I said, "Bye everybody"
> I get a text 10 minutes later "You hate me dont you".
> Just one time and I get a hurt text. Tells me all I need to know. Time will help heal these wounds for both of us.


You are getting some REALLY GOOD signals. If some part of her didnt' want you back she would be BLANKING you. Stay positive. Stay cool. Don't try to resolve communication and trust yet. They are important but ti's too early. You can't resolve those until you've won a firm commitment from her to work on the relationship first. I don't think her agreement to MC proves she is there yet.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

GetTough said:


> Listen man, you are getting some REALLY GOOD signals. If she didnt' want you back she would be BLANKING you. Stay positive. Stay cool. Don't try to resolve communication and trust yet. They are important but ti's too early. You can't resolve those until you've won a firm commitment from her to work on the relationship first. I don't think her agreement to MC proves she is there yet.


She wanted MC before the "blowout". Now she says she is filing next month. Her parents are on the side of reconciliation, her whole family is. Except her sister... My family is for reconciliation too. But, it's up to us.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mark72 said:


> 180 day 1. I went over to the in-laws to see the kids. She was there. I didn't aknowledge her presence. One-word answer. When I left I said, "Bye everybody"
> I get a text 10 minutes later "You hate me dont you".
> Just one time and I get a hurt text. Tells me all I need to know. Time will help heal these wounds for both of us.


Mark I get the same thing, you hate me dont you . . . Dont give up on it like I did and now I'm fighting to make it work again. Once again I'm back at day 1


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Mark I get the same thing, you hate me dont you . . . Dont give up on it like I did and now I'm fighting to make it work again. Once again I'm back at day 1


I think right now she is looking for evidence of a real change in me. She is testing the water. She also said that I don't miss her, I miss the kids. I didn't answer until this morning. No begging, no pleading, just I love you but nothing I have said has made any difference.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Mark72 said:


> She wanted MC before the "blowout". Now she says she is filing next month. Her parents are on the side of reconciliation, her whole family is. Except her sister... My family is for reconciliation too. But, it's up to us.


Stick to the 180. You've had some great moments where you've been strong with that. Try to get into a mindset where you really are moving on without her. So she's not doing MC any more? If so, let it be. Don't try to persuade her of anything, e.g. to try again. Do not initiate any first contact unless absolutely necessary. Stop the sell. Try to be much more unavailable to her, but not completely so. When you honor her with your time, show understanding for her distress, not anger.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Mark72 said:


> I think right now she is looking for evidence of a real change in me. She is testing the water. She also said that I don't miss her, I miss the kids. I didn't answer until this morning. No begging, no pleading, just I love you but nothing I have said has made any difference.


Expressions of emotion, esp. "I love you" are a Bad Idea.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

One thing to add. In my case, this year has been very stressful. We lost a baby, we have had some financial struggles (no mismanagement of money) we both work full time and take online classes, we have 2 young children, and I have just found out I have heart issues and need a bypass surgery. Yes, there is stress.
She offered to take me to the hospital for my surgery. She also offered to let me stay there to recover. I feel less like "divorce" and more like "getaway from stress for a while". At least thats what I hope.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you for the responses, Yalls information is really eye opening. Sounds like my best interest is to stay calm play it cool and let things slowly work there way back together. I'm going to continue to work on myself because the 4 days I was doing that I felt great. As we all saw a positive outcome from it but I gave in way to early. She doesnt get into a rush for divorce until I either beg for her back or she gets really pissed I'm ignoring her. So I think I have sometime before anything happens. Last night she agreed to 3-4 sessions with the counselor so I think that will be a good amount of time to let things cool and see what we want. Hearing that shes not attracted to me by saying she loves me but not in love with me confirms some concerns of mine. When I broke my arm I lost 25 pounds of soild muscle and since then our sex life went down. Now Im skinnier than normal and not the man I was when we met. I think time to get back in shape since i ve been cleared work on my self esteem and work on my issues i brought to the relationship. I really do thank yall for all of this you have no idea how it helps me through out the day.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Thank you for the responses, Yalls information is really eye opening. Sounds like my best interest is to stay calm play it cool and let things slowly work there way back together. I'm going to continue to work on myself because the 4 days I was doing that I felt great. As we all saw a positive outcome from it but I gave in way to early. She doesnt get into a rush for divorce until I either beg for her back or she gets really pissed I'm ignoring her. So I think I have sometime before anything happens. Last night she agreed to 3-4 sessions with the counselor so I think that will be a good amount of time to let things cool and see what we want. Hearing that shes not attracted to me by saying she loves me but not in love with me confirms some concerns of mine. When I broke my arm I lost 25 pounds of soild muscle and since then our sex life went down. Now Im skinnier than normal and not the man I was when we met. I think time to get back in shape since i ve been cleared work on my self esteem and work on my issues i brought to the relationship. I really do thank yall for all of this you have no idea how it helps me through out the day.


She has to be attracted to WHO you are more than WHAT you are. It's probably not so much about your physique as the behaviors you've been exhibiting. I think you're doing great in that you are taking on board insight, and acting on that insight a lot earlier in the process than I did when I was in your situation. Try to forget about what you want in the relationship for the moment. Seriously. That was one of the mistakes I made going into MC. If you start arguing for what you want... you'll likely get nowhere. That's way down her priority list. Focus on understanding what SHE wants, then don't promise it to her just like that. Just empathize. Just validate her feelings "I can see how you'd feel that way.".... Show her you're not just going to promise her everything though, it's not credible. It's very supplicative and unattractive. For now just show her you are thinking about and hearing what she is saying.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks gettough, I'm going to start mentally preparing myself for Tuesday. I just feel shes hot one minute and cold the next. Probably because she too is on the emotional roller coaster too even though shes acting like it doesn't faze her. Probably why it drives me crazy so much. I'm going to make this counseling session all about her wants and not mine. I'm going to listen and let her know I understand her issues. I told her going into this session that if she doesn't have any want or drive to make it work it probably wont benefit us. She said she is going to make it clear to me that we are done. Not sure if that's her way of hiding her emotion that she wants to go to figure out some problems or if that's the real reason . Although she said shes not going to go in there with any hopes of R but she said lets wait and see what the MC says.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> ...I told her going into this session that if she doesn't have any want or drive to make it work it probably wont benefit us. She said she is going to make it clear to me that we are done. Not sure if that's her way of hiding her emotion that she wants to go to figure out some problems or if that's the real reason . Although she said shes not going to go in there with any hopes of R but she said lets wait and see what the MC says.


I believe your gut reaction was right. I doubt you should attend MC if you are sure she is going to reject you there. Do not allow her to waste your time, or put you in a position where you feel like rationalizing/begging for her. In that case, tell her you are moving on and cancel the MC session. She probably wants to go in order to assuage her guilt and say she tried. She may want a safe place to reject you, once and for all, in person. I believe her taking you is disingenuous and all about her needs, not the relationship. I do not believe you should allow her to use you that way. I doubt she is hiding her emotion when she says she is done. She is making it clear she is not invested in the process. I believe she says, "we'll see what the MC says" in order to feel better about what she's doing. Because obviously it would be devious and selfish to take a hurting guy to MC when he had no hope, and she doesn't want to feel that way.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> I believe your gut reaction was right. I doubt you should attend MC if you are sure she is going to reject you there. Do not allow her to waste your time, or put you in a position where you feel like rationalizing/begging for her. In that case, tell her you are moving on and cancel the MC session. She probably wants to go in order to assuage her guilt and say she tried. She may want a safe place to reject you, once and for all, in person. I believe her taking you is disingenuous and all about her needs, not the relationship. I do not believe you should allow her to use you that way. I doubt she is hiding her emotion when she says she is done. She is making it clear she is not invested in the process. I believe she says, "we'll see what the MC says" in order to feel better about what she's doing. Because obviously it would be devious and selfish to take a hurting guy to MC when he had no hope, and she doesn't want to feel that way.


Here is the problem I'm having, back in January we went through this same thing she left for a month and is saying the exact same things she is saying now. Said the same stuff about MC and after one session she started to change her attitude about things. When I broke my arm she was so stressed out taking care of everything and me being on Pain pills for so long my attitude changed. Now were back at square one. The month we had before all that was awesome. I'm hoping for the same turn out but who knows. The week she left she hooked up with a friend who cheated on her husband and left him. Prior to that she hated her for it but all of a sudden they became friends. She wanted to go to a house party with her and I didn't like that idea and when we argued about it she left and hasn't been back since.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Man your situation is a real rollercoaster. I want to take a gravol just reading it to stop motion sickness.

How the heck are you still coping? Are you superman?


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

I am learning to just be a better man. To think about my responses before I give them. I am not being completely stand-offish, but I am not doing the whole begging/groveling/apologizing/see-me-change-ing routine that I never stopped doing a week ago. I've noticed some change. She has warmed up to me a bit. Now, I need to learn the hardest thing of all - patience. 1 Cor 13:4-8 starts with "Love is patient". Man that's a tough one for me. But I have 2 choices - learn to be patient or push her away by going back to the self destructive habits. This site has helped me see the way she sees a desperate, sniveling man. Pathetic.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Man your situation is a real rollercoaster. I want to take a gravol just reading it to stop motion sickness.
> 
> How the heck are you still coping? Are you superman?


Haha! Thats the first good laugh I've had in a while. I'm not sure how I'm still even getting out of bed in the morning. Let me tell you this has been the worst year ever! Started out with a divorce got back together snapped my arm in half arm wrestling. lost 25 pounds, got put on disability, got depressed, now lost my wife again and its only half way through the year


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mark72 said:


> I am learning to just be a better man. To think about my responses before I give them. I am not being completely stand-offish, but I am not doing the whole begging/groveling/apologizing/see-me-change-ing routine that I never stopped doing a week ago. I've noticed some change. She has warmed up to me a bit. Now, I need to learn the hardest thing of all - patience. 1 Cor 13:4-8 starts with "Love is patient". Man that's a tough one for me. But I have 2 choices - learn to be patient or push her away by going back to the self destructive habits. This site has helped me see the way she sees a desperate, sniveling man. Pathetic.


Mark I couldn’t agree more, after this last time of begging and promising better things I felt disgusted with myself. You sound like you’re on the right path. Patience . . . not in my dictionary and I need to add it. That’s been the main reason this separation has escalated like it has. Rushing to decisions and not thinking them through.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Mark I couldn’t agree more, after this last time of begging and promising better things I felt disgusted with myself. You sound like you’re on the right path. Patience . . . not in my dictionary and I need to add it. That’s been the main reason this separation has escalated like it has. Rushing to decisions and not thinking them through.


One thing I did was read the "Love Dare". I just read through it... A lot of things in there didn't pertain to me because I _thought_ I was doing ok with everything. Well, I still lack more than I have. It's got a lot of Christian content and bible verses, but even if you aren't a Christian the principles are universal.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mark72 said:


> One thing I did was read the "Love Dare". I just read through it... A lot of things in there didn't pertain to me because I _thought_ I was doing ok with everything. Well, I still lack more than I have. It's got a lot of Christian content and bible verses, but even if you aren't a Christian the principles are universal.


Thanks I'll have to check it out.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mark72 said:


> One thing I did was read the "Love Dare". I just read through it...


To bad I didnt read this book before all of this. Really opens your eyes.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I know I'm sticking to the 180 plan but how do I go about maybe asking my W to read a book. I want her to read the Divorce busting book. Should I just wait until MC to suggest it? Whats the best route for that?


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I know I'm sticking to the 180 plan but how do I go about maybe asking my W to read a book. I want her to read the Divorce busting book. Should I just wait until MC to suggest it? Whats the best route for that?


From what I am gathering, if the time is wrong, it will just have a negative effect. For you to suggest a book, she'd have to be open to the idea of reconciliation. If not, I'd guess she would perceive you as pushing the issue and back to begging, if to a lessor extent.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

And as far as the Love Dare, there's a lot of steps that conflict with 180. I think it's designed for the wayward spouse for a "last chance" effort. I am using it as a primer for after reconciliation, which I am still VERY hopeful for.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I do see how that could have a negative effect. I'll probably wait until my single session with the MC to ask her about it and how I should approach that one. There are tons of steps that dont go toe to toe with the 180. I'm still not sure of the whole putting up a hard 180. I'm trying to find that happy medium where I show her I'm moving on and I'm bettering myself but that if she is willing to change I'm willing to change and hope for a R. So that book does speak volume to me in alot of ways. I dont think the hard 180 is for everyone every relationship is different. I do think when starting the 180 you might need to be hard on it to make sure it shows but as time goes on there has to be a soft spot to show you still care but not in the form of begging and pleading. Not sure if any of this makes sense and I may be all over the place but thats how I feel today about it. Just another climb in my roller coaster just waiting for the free fall now I know its coming.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I do see how that could have a negative effect. I'll probably wait until my single session with the MC to ask her about it and how I should approach that one. There are tons of steps that dont go toe to toe with the 180. I'm still not sure of the whole putting up a hard 180. I'm trying to find that happy medium where I show her I'm moving on and I'm bettering myself but that if she is willing to change I'm willing to change and hope for a R. So that book does speak volume to me in alot of ways. I dont think the hard 180 is for everyone every relationship is different. I do think when starting the 180 you might need to be hard on it to make sure it shows but as time goes on there has to be a soft spot to show you still care but not in the form of begging and pleading. Not sure if any of this makes sense and I may be all over the place but thats how I feel today about it. Just another climb in my roller coaster just waiting for the free fall now I know its coming.


One article about the 180 that I read said to take what you have been doing. Ask yourself if it is working. If the answer is "No" then do the opposite.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

This Morning the W text me asking when I can help her move her stuff from my house to her new place. Already agreed to help last week so I'm kind of stuck in it. I said Next weekend after waiting abotu 25 minutes. Then she ask why next weekend. Wondering if I should even text back. Dont think I should have to explain myself to her.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ i wouldn't help her. that's just me though. no explanation needed either.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

You shouldn't have to explain yourself to her. At the least, just say its inconvenient. She's bloody lucky you agreed to help. You might even consider telling her that, after some thought, she needs to find someone else to help her. You don't need the pain that helping her move will bring.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> This Morning the W text me asking when I can help her move her stuff from my house to her new place. Already agreed to help last week so I'm kind of stuck in it. I said Next weekend after waiting abotu 25 minutes. Then she ask why next weekend. Wondering if I should even text back. Dont think I should have to explain myself to her.


I hope you are not misunderstanding what the 180 is about.

What the 180 is NOT for is to make the wayward come back to you. Sometimes.....SOMETIMES... the 180 has that affect, but not all the time. 

Alot of people here on TAM see the 180 as a method to get the wayward to return to the relationship, and that's why so many are disappointed when the marriage goes further in the tank. 

The 180, Orange, is for YOU. It is there to help you emotionally detach from a woman who, up until now, does not appear to be serious about mending her relationship with you. 

The 180 is there to help you emotionally buttress yourself for the eventuality that your marriage will end in divorce. By the time that happens, if you have followed the 180 to the T, you will be in a much better position emotionally to say goodbye to her and let her go her way with the least amount of stress and devastation to yourself and a more positive outlook towards the future. 

Beowulf mentioned a book or and article called "*Just Let Them Go*". If anyone here has a link to that I think Orange would do well to read that.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

So I ve got a little update. I ended up texting her saying I ve been very busy latley and if she brought her dads truck I would load her bed into it for her and she would have to figure out the rest. I told her Monday would work I ve got things going on all weekend and she said thanks and she appreciated it. I didnt respond back and then she kept texting me about stupid stuff about the size of her dads truck bed and her parents need a break from baby sitting on certian days and then she texted me about facebook I guess she decided to unblock me and said something about I shouldnt put her on blast on facebook that it hurts her feelings and it was immature and now she looks like a bad parent. Which that was the day after she left I was upset and did say somethings but it was only the truth. I said Missing my daughter to bad some people fu*k it up for others because there priorites are backwards. That was the only time I said anything about it. But anways I responded back with a simple ok and then I got the your such an ******* thing again. I feel like control is coming back and I feel like I'm moving forward in bettering myself. Today I register for classes again. Just another step forward.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

spudster said:


> I hope you are not misunderstanding what the 180 is about.
> 
> What the 180 is NOT for is to make the wayward come back to you. Sometimes.....SOMETIMES... the 180 has that affect, but not all the time.
> 
> ...


I saw an thread on TAM with that atricle in it. Has good points but is for a cheating spouse.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Congratulations, Orange. It sounds like you are regaining control. keep up the good work!


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks flower I feel like I am, I just pray I can keep this attitude because feeling this way makes it easier to make it through the day without that gut wrecthing pain all day.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean, Orange. It does help. You can do it. I have faith in you.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm trying to stick to the plan and the more she freaks out the easier it is. She called me again and I hit that red ignore button. Then another. Then a text saying I see your ignoring me again. I texted back 10 mins later Kailyn? (which is our daughters name). She freaked out calling me names then saying I want my stuff Monday. ( I thought that was the plan the whole time, what am I missing here?) Then some more calls then finally I just turned my phone off. Turned it back on to a text saying she is done with my childish antics and I dont know how to have a normal phone convo. Still didnt reply . . .COME ON YOU LEFT ME AND WHEN I WANT TO TALK ON THE PHONE OR TEXT YOU ALWAYS IGNORE ME. I don't understand this whole game she is trying to play. Now I probably wont ever win her back she is so mad and I'm guessing MC will probably be canceled on her part but DANG it feels good. Best song to describe me right now. Better man better off - tracy lawrence. I'm going to enjoy this happiness because I know my downs are probably right around the corner.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

You might be overdoing it on the 180.

Backing off a bit, being strong, independent and not begging and pleading doesn't mean completely ignore her.

You can answer her calls and texts, at least some of them; but keep it brief, keep it non emotional, and give her the message that you're there for her to some extent but you aren't going to be playing the silly blame games, you're not going to fight, and if there's nothing of any real importance to discuss then let's just do our own thing and let things cool until we see each other in therapy.

Helping her move is a good idea. It's a chance to see the cool, calm, strong guy she married, who won't turn into a pile of blubbering tears, while he impresses her with his abilities to move her stuff and he doesn't have any problems whatsoever with doing it.

Got it?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You might be overdoing it on the 180.
> 
> Backing off a bit, being strong, independent and not begging and pleading doesn't mean completely ignore her.
> 
> ...


Man this 180 thing is tough to figure out. Well maybe I over did it she texted for my social for the paper work. At this point I'm not sure anymore whats going on. I just need to keep moving forward.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> This Morning the W text me asking when I can help her move her stuff from my house to her new place. Already agreed to help last week so I'm kind of stuck in it. I said Next weekend after waiting abotu 25 minutes. Then she ask why next weekend. Wondering if I should even text back. Dont think I should have to explain myself to her.


Argh! Stop helping her leave you!! Go back on your promises if you have to. Seriously. You have nothing to explain and nothing to justify. There is no dishonor in changing your mind (about how far you're prepared to let her take advantage of you), when you agreed to this under emotional duress and she's breaking your wedding vows! FFS man. This is about self-respect. How can she love if you she doesn't respect you? And how can she respect you if you don't respect yourself? See what i mean? This has to be one of the hardest parts for "nice guys". When to say no when they feel like saying no can't possibly work. Saying no begins to make her attracted to you again. If the choice is between pissing her off and helping her leave you, don't be afraid of making her angry.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I'm trying to stick to the plan and the more she freaks out the easier it is. She called me again and I hit that red ignore button. Then another. Then a text saying I see your ignoring me again. I texted back 10 mins later Kailyn? (which is our daughters name). She freaked out calling me names then saying I want my stuff Monday. ( I thought that was the plan the whole time, what am I missing here?) Then some more calls then finally I just turned my phone off. Turned it back on to a text saying she is done with my childish antics and I dont know how to have a normal phone convo. Still didnt reply . . .COME ON YOU LEFT ME AND WHEN I WANT TO TALK ON THE PHONE OR TEXT YOU ALWAYS IGNORE ME. I don't understand this whole game she is trying to play. Now I probably wont ever win her back she is so mad and I'm guessing MC will probably be canceled on her part but DANG it feels good. Best song to describe me right now. Better man better off - tracy lawrence. I'm going to enjoy this happiness because I know my downs are probably right around the corner.


Let her throw her tantrums. You just stay cool and detached.... she can own her own chaos. Things will calm down. If you do not get drawn into hurting her in any way, I think you have a chance.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Man this 180 thing is tough to figure out. Well maybe I over did it she texted for my social for the paper work. At this point I'm not sure anymore whats going on. I just need to keep moving forward.


Did you ever see Pride and Prejudice, or any of the Clint Eastwood movies? How would D'Arcy respond? Basically, he would reject her because she's beneath him. But not in a hurtful way, not with violent words. Just walk away. She texted for the social. Ignore it! You're too scared of upsetting her. You're not her lap dog!


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> Let her throw her tantrums. You just stay cool and detached.... she can own her own chaos. Things will calm down. If you do not get drawn into hurting her in any way, I think you have a chance.


I ve been trying to detach myself as much as possible. I am going over to her new house tonight to rewire some stuff for her dryer. As much as I dont want to I want to make sure some idiot doesnt do it and her house burns down with my child in it. We have been NC for the most part only talking when needed. Still no hopes for R but we did have a little talk last night about giving each other time to figure our selves out and to better our selves in a relationship before we make any decision on trying to make it work. We are thinking maybe 4 or 5 months. We have decided we will both be attending church with each other and once a week family day. Hopefully this works out but at this point I'm working on myself still and bettering my outlook on relationships and 4-5 months down the road if it works out it works out if not I should be in a position to let her go a little easier.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

So yesterday was the day of moving her bed to her new apartment. When I got there I moved it all inside and fixed her dryer. Once that was done I helped her set up her bed and we layed on the bed cuddled and kissed a little bit. Then she would get distant and like she didnt want to anymore then we just wrestled around like old times. A lot of good laughes but then our situation got brought up and she once again said she couldnt commit right now that she needs time. Not sure if that means hope for the future? After that I did a couple more things for her and her sister to help out some and then decided to leave. She wants to take me out Thursday for my birthday and said we can do whatever we want as a Family with Kailyn. Which I wouldnt want her to not be there but it was like she was punching it in my head its not a date. So then I said are we sleeping over too as a family of course lol. Hurts to hear her say she wants to do stuff as a family but shes leaving this family . . . Wish I could just not talk to her about the emotions I have about all of this it might give me a better chance or it might push her away farther. I told her I was working on myself and hoped she would see that. She said dont do it for me do it for yourself. Kind of a smack in the face even though I am doing it for myself but I didnt need to her the dont do it for me because I'm never coming back line.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think she is leaving... if you are cuddling and kissing it will only be a matter of time. She is still very found of you.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't think she is leaving... if you are cuddling and kissing it will only be a matter of time. She is still very found of you.


I do think it sounds better on paper than it seems in person. Not to sure because the cuddles and kisses could have been simply to keep me there to help out I dont know because they were after I did everything but the way she still looked me in the eyes tell me a lot. I think it boils down to that she wants to be free and figure herself out for a little while. Were so young and everything went so fast. Maybe this is a good thing and will help us become stronger if she comes back . . . "IF"


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> we layed on the bed cuddled and kissed a little bit. Then she would get distant and like she didnt want to anymore


You laid with her and kissed her until SHE got distant and didn't want to do it anymore??

What happened to "effective implementation of the 180?"

You're still leaving everything up to her.

She's got all the power and you're like the dog begging for scraps.

Once again you're shooting yourself in the foot.

It's such a shame because this is one of those few cases where you just might have a shot at at saving this thing, you can see how she reacts when you toughen up and you see how she responds when you're weak and you just keep right on falling back to that clingy needy mentality that gets you nowhere.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You laid with her and kissed her until SHE got distant and didn't want to do it anymore??
> 
> What happened to "effective implementation of the 180?"
> 
> ...



Yes I did give in to her but most of it was brought on by her. I guess I have to learn to refuse any affection from her. When I toughen up though she just gets mad and wants to finalize the divorce because she takes it as me being an A$$. Honestly I feel like I get a little closer being nice than ignoring her but i do think I need to throw in some more toughness and let her know I can move on. Not to sure what to do about my birthday dinner. Should I cancel and say I'm doing something else? Should I not stay the night and just go home?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Yes I did give in to her but most of it was brought on by her.


Of COURSE it was brought on by her. She pulls your strings, and you jump. It's been happening for at least as long as you've been posting to this thread.

The idea was not to respond to her attempts to coerce and manipulate you into dropping your guard, and to remain independent, strong, and detached. You say you understand what you need to do, and then within 24-48 hours you post how you once again fell right back off the wagon again.

Don't you understand the huge amount of damage you're doing to any chance of reconciliation when you pull back and then crumble to pieces and let her call the shots as usual?



Orange1 said:


> I guess I have to learn to refuse any affection from her.


Ya think??



Orange1 said:


> When I toughen up though she just gets mad and wants to finalize the divorce because she takes it as me being an A$$.


Right. And when you get all weak she has no interest in reconciliation.



Orange1 said:


> Honestly I feel like I get a little closer being nice than ignoring her


At this point it's all just one big game. That's one of the biggest problems with using the 180 as some sort of manipulative tool. The 180 is "supposed" to be a way to steer you in the direction of moving on, learning to be strong and independent, to prepare you to live your own life. Sometimes the situation reverses, and the one who wants to leave has second thoughts when they see their partner physically and mentally moving on but that's not why you do the 180.

You're trying to play this thing so that you can somehow win her back and you're doing a poor job of it.



Orange1 said:


> but i do think I need to throw in some more toughness and let her know I can move on.


I suggest you reframe your approach and forget about "a bit of toughness here" and a "bit of warm and loving here".

Accept that it's over, and pull back and be "friendly" but detached and distant because you KNOW this thing is probably beyond saving and you are mentally and physically preparing yourself to move on, not because you are trying to fake the way you act to get her to run back into your arms.



Orange1 said:


> Not to sure what to do about my birthday dinner. Should I cancel and say I'm doing something else? Should I not stay the night and just go home?


What do you think?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I know I would have a hard time saying no to hugging and kissing from my wife because I crave it so much.

That would be a tough call.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Kindi - I see your points, I'm still not sure what to do about the birthday. I could say no and honestly once I do that its going to start the whole lets get the divorce rocking and rolling then. Such a confusing situation I guess I cant seem to commit to either side. I just dont see how me moving on with life and only being friendly will have any effect on her decision besides hes done well then I will be too. There has to be some sort of i still love you and want it to work out. Otherwise she will think thats what I want to. I'm still working on myself and preparing myself for a D because thats probably what is to come. I dont think I'll beable to live with myself if I dont atleast try from time to time to make a R. I am going to pull back just a little bit more though just for my own sanity. I can either sit at home on my birthday because I'm on call or go out with my daughter and wife. I think I'll go out with my daughter and wife so I'm not sitting at home depressed thinking about it.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know I would have a hard time saying no to hugging and kissing from my wife because I crave it so much.
> 
> That would be a tough call.


Nearly impossible to refuse. She needs to feel the affection because love is an action to feel love you must act on it. If I refuse her love or affection then how is she going to act on it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Regardless of what others say, if you wife wants to hug and kiss you that is a GOOD thing. 

If mine reached out for that attention it would be a long and heartfelt kiss that would make her knees quiver and an embrace that would fill her with warmth.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I think I would have trouble pulling back if my husband started like that, even though intellectually I understand that it probably would be better to.

As far as the birthday dinner, maybe going, being friendly, but then going home (alone!) would be the way to go. Have a good time, show her that you are there because its important to your daughter to do this family thing, but that you don't need her (your wife, not your daughter.

I know that goes against the 180, but she is asking to do this with you, which could be a good thing. Just don't get all mushy and cave if she wants more after dinner.

Good luck.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Orange, what do you want out of all of this? This is the question you need to ask. Then you need to ask what your girl wants out of this? It takes two to tango, and if one of you wants to, but the other doesn't, well it's probably not going to work well. 

It seems like you are playing with the 180 as a sure fire way to get her back, and when some emotion comes from you, you think the 180 worked and now we are all good. It takes time to change. the first sign of affection is just a good sign, it's not a destination. you keep shooting yourself in the foot. 

she's treating you like crap anyway, i'm not sure why you still want to be with someone that does that to you. don't you know there is someone out there that would treat you the way you deserve. Think about that for a second and let that sink in....


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Such a confusing situation I guess I cant seem to commit to either side. I just dont see how me moving on with life and only being friendly will have any effect on her decision besides hes done well then I will be too. There has to be some sort of i still love you and want it to work out.


So tell her all this back and forth isn't doing either one of you any good, and regardless of whether or not the marriage succeeds or fails, obviously the best thing for both of you to do right now is just chill out and stop with the affection and spending all this time together.

Find some sort of middle ground, maybe where it's ok to spend some time together on your birthday but keep it cool, again with the understanding that emotions are running hot and for both of you to make good, logical, informed decisions you can't be going from one extreme to the other.

Get your butts into that marriage counseling, that's exactly what it's all about.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> I think I would have trouble pulling back if my husband started like that, even though intellectually I understand that it probably would be better to.
> 
> As far as the birthday dinner, maybe going, being friendly, but then going home (alone!) would be the way to go. Have a good time, show her that you are there because its important to your daughter to do this family thing, but that you don't need her (your wife, not your daughter.
> 
> ...


Yes I def. want to do the dinner with her but I dont think I'm going to bring up staying the night again. Probably better if its just friendly right now.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> So tell her all this back and forth isn't doing either one of you any good, and regardless of whether or not the marriage succeeds or fails, obviously the best thing for both of you to do right now is just chill out and stop with the affection and spending all this time together.
> 
> Find some sort of middle ground, maybe where it's ok to spend some time together on your birthday but keep it cool, again with the understanding that emotions are running hot and for both of you to make good, logical, informed decisions you can't be going from one extreme to the other.
> 
> Get your butts into that marriage counseling, that's exactly what it's all about.


Thats what I ve tried to do is find that middle ground. I had a day set up with MC and ruined that when we got into a fight last week. I told her not to worry about it and when I brought it back up she decided she didn t want to do it anymore. Although I am happy she is going to church with me now on Sundays so I think if counseling Church would be the best. I think in a couple of weeks I'll try to bring back up MC


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Thats what I ve tried to do is find that middle ground. I had a day set up with MC and ruined that when we got into a fight last week. I told her not to worry about it and when I brought it back up she decided she didn t want to do it anymore. Although I am happy she is going to church with me now on Sundays so I think if counseling Church would be the best. I think in a couple of weeks I'll try to bring back up MC



Ok let's work on staying on middle ground since that seems to be your comfort zone.

You already know to avoid the extremes:

Staying overnite, cuddling, kissing and any time of sex is one of them, begging and pleading is another, and completely ignoring her is yet another, arguing with her or any sort of conflict, is still another.

It's almost like a square. Avoid the corners.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

It is tough when your man parts also get in the way of reasoning to....

It's hard to say no when she ready to go ( I think that's from an Offspring tune). In this case i would tell you to go home alone that night and leave her hot an heavy. Maybe she will do some thinking.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> Ok let's work on staying on middle ground since that seems to be your comfort zone.
> 
> You already know to avoid the extremes:
> 
> ...



I think that approach fits me more. My main problem is that I do feel I have a good chance of her coming back but I need to be patient. Thats the hard part for me i want answers now and she just cant give them now and then it starts all the emotions flying. I need to learn to stay calm and just respect her feelings right now. Hopefully she doesnt move on to someone else in the mean time. I messed up a little today and sent her sister a message on facebook. I know that was bad and wrong but last time we went through this her sister was right by my side helping out. This time shes moved into an apartment with her and shes only 17. I dont think she wants me to come back in the picture because then she might have to move back home.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It is tough when your man parts also get in the way of reasoning to....
> 
> It's hard to say no when she ready to go ( I think that's from an Offspring tune). In this case i would tell you to go home alone that night and leave her hot an heavy. Maybe she will do some thinking.



yeah I think its just going to be a dinner night for me. I think she will respect that more and make her wonder why I didnt want to stay the night as well.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I messed up a little today and sent her sister a message on facebook.


What did you message to the sister and will she forward it to your wife?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> Orange, what do you want out of all of this? This is the question you need to ask. Then you need to ask what your girl wants out of this? It takes two to tango, and if one of you wants to, but the other doesn't, well it's probably not going to work well.
> 
> It seems like you are playing with the 180 as a sure fire way to get her back, and when some emotion comes from you, you think the 180 worked and now we are all good. It takes time to change. the first sign of affection is just a good sign, it's not a destination. you keep shooting yourself in the foot.
> 
> she's treating you like crap anyway, i'm not sure why you still want to be with someone that does that to you. don't you know there is someone out there that would treat you the way you deserve. Think about that for a second and let that sink in....



What I want out of all this - Is for both of us to grow up a little realize yes things went to fast and we are young but we need to get help and make things work. I want my wife to come back home so we can be a family.
What she wants - The last time we spoke was shes not ready to commit right now because she needs to figure her self out. She needs to better herself before she can even consider a relationship again. (could be her BullSh!t to get me off the subject for a while ). 
I only seem to get affection when I'm nice and there for her. When Im going dark on the 180 its more of a crazy why the hell are you ignoring me I hate you lets get a divorce right now type of attitude. I dont see how thats effective when you want them to love you more. I'm sure I can show her the strong, independent type of man I'am turning into and being civil and nice. Now as far as being treated like crap . . . yeah she was at first but its calming down now she responds to my text and answers my calls and will listen to my feelings about things. Is she ready to come back? No of course not. There is a lot of pain and emotions flying around now. Will he change into a better guy then go right back to how he was before? Do I want to hurt again? I mean it goes both ways but jumping back into it before we get help would be dumb. Thats setting yourself up for failure. She said she doesnt want to do MC because of the cost. She said she would rather go to church with me to better herself. To me thats the best thing anyone can do for counseling or finding yourself. ( Dont know if your beliefs but I was raised Christian and fell off the wagon a bit ) So I have no problem with that. She also wants to have family day once a week so I feel that will be a soild time to show her my changes. Actions are stonger than words. Doing the 180 shows her I'm willing to give up on her. I dont want to give up on her. She as much as I hate to say it is a follower. If i give up she will wonder off somewhere else. I have to take charge and let her know the path she wants. Thats just the type of person she is.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> What did you message to the sister and will she forward it to your wife?


Well basically I just said hey I just wanted to get your perspective on things please dont tell KK that i sent this because it might upset her then went on to say I understand that yall got a place together and your wanting the best for your sister as do I but I'm not trying to rush anything anymore I was just wondering if you could talk to her about the whole situation because I know you dont think this is the best since you were there for me last time. I dont want to break up yalls new living condition but for the sake of our family dont let that be your reason of not talking to her about it. Just things along those lines. Told her we both needed to grow up and figure our selves out. No response this time though. So I dont know if she will send it to her. She might but if she does that wont be good.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I only seem to get affection when I'm nice and there for her. When Im going dark on the 180 its more of a crazy why the hell are you ignoring me I hate you lets get a divorce right now type of attitude.


You still don't seem to get it. Stop playing the extremes. Don't go dark, don't ignore her but don't do the whole questioning, begging, pleading thing either! Find that middle ground, where you are there to listen, to help her out, but you're somewhat detached, strong, independent. Again that doesn't mean ignoring her and it doesn't mean cuddling and kissing her either.



Orange1 said:


> I'm sure I can show her the strong, independent type of man I'am turning into and being civil and nice.


You haven't turned into anything different in the past few days or weeks even though you'd like to believe you have suddenly changed and you're this new guy that she'll fall right back in love with. She doesn't believe it either. Stop trying to force it, it's going to backfire, it HAS backfired. 



Orange1 said:


> its calming down now she responds to my text and answers my calls and will listen to my feelings about things.


OMG!

You are actually... telling her your feelings about things?!

Seriously? 

How is that in any way, shape or form, "detached, independent" and not clingy needy? Stop making it about you and what you want, because she's not going to buy what you are trying to sell.




Orange1 said:


> She said she would rather go to church with me to better herself. To me thats the best thing anyone can do for counseling or finding yourself.


Good luck with that. As if the deck wasn't already stacked against you, now you're going to leave it to the church as compared to marriage counseling. 



Orange1 said:


> Doing the 180 shows her I'm willing to give up on her.


This statement clearly explains the extent of your own personal understanding of "the 180" which isn't all that much.



Orange1 said:


> I have to take charge and let her know the path she wants.


I'm not even going to try to figure out what you mean there but one thing's for sure, you are NOT in charge of this situation and you lack the emotional strength to get there, at least right now.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You still don't seem to get it. Stop playing the extremes. Don't go dark, don't ignore her but don't do the whole questioning, begging, pleading thing either! Find that middle ground, where you are there to listen, to help her out, but you're somewhat detached, strong, independent. Again that doesn't mean ignoring her and it doesn't mean cuddling and kissing her either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well after reading all that it seems as if I have no clue what I'm doing when you break it down. As far as MC I do think one reason she doesnt want to go is because she will hear the truth that things can be resolved and she may be scared to hear that because she wants to give this new life a shot. (hopefully that grass aint so green). Ok I think I'm getting your point. I think I'm right there at the middle ground. I help her out when I can but I'm not ALWAYS avaliable when she needs it. If she calls I'll answer or call back 5 minutes later and just keep it friendly no emotions attached. No sleeping over No cuddling No extremes. On family day just be strong, independent and happy so she enjoys being around me. . . Close?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> As far as MC I do think one reason she doesnt want to go is because she will hear the truth that things can be resolved and she may be scared to hear that


Quite the theory. Either way if she won't go to MC your odds of successful reconciliation are rather slim.

As to the rest of it, yeah, you got the idea.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't think she is leaving... if you are cuddling and kissing it will only be a matter of time. She is still very found of you.


She may still feeling some affection, some doubt, but she's still leaving. He may have some inkling of a chance, but that's all, and she mostly likely testing and/or manipulating him; and when he acts like he wants her, he's failing and losing her.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Regardless of what others say, if you wife wants to hug and kiss you that is a GOOD thing.
> 
> If mine reached out for that attention it would be a long and heartfelt kiss that would make her knees quiver and an embrace that would fill her with warmth.


What if she only wants to out of PITY, and/or to placate, pacify, avoid an argument, keep the divorce track running smoothly? Is it a good thing then?


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Frostflower said:


> I think I would have trouble pulling back if my husband started like that, even though intellectually I understand that it probably would be better to.
> 
> As far as the birthday dinner, maybe going, being friendly, but then going home (alone!) would be the way to go. Have a good time, show her that you are there because its important to your daughter to do this family thing, but that you don't need her (your wife, not your daughter.
> 
> ...


He should go and focus all his time and attention on his child. Be a happy family man almost as if his stbx is not there.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Yes I def. want to do the dinner with her but I dont think I'm going to bring up staying the night again. Probably better if its just friendly right now.


You have to stop trying to get her to do ANYTHING, or change her, persuade her in anyway. You have to begin acting almost like she doesn't exist. That is your best and possibly only chance. She is showing every sign of (at best) testing you with serious doubt whether she wants to continue, or at worst 100% set on leaving you and manipulating you to keep things going smoothly. Your situation is a LOT like how mine played out. With hindsight later, I believe you will likely see things how I do now, which is hard for you to see right now.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Thats what I ve tried to do is find that middle ground. I had a day set up with MC and ruined that when we got into a fight last week. I told her not to worry about it and when I brought it back up she decided she didn t want to do it anymore. Although I am happy she is going to church with me now on Sundays so I think if counseling Church would be the best. I think in a couple of weeks I'll try to bring back up MC


I know how much you want to encourage her to try again. I felt that too. But all this pushing MC/sex/more time with her... is just driving her away. If you want any chance of her changing her mind, you have to stop with the hard sell already and start waiting for her to come to you. Seriously.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I think that approach fits me more. My main problem is that I do feel I have a good chance of her coming back but I need to be patient. Thats the hard part for me i want answers now and she just cant give them now and then it starts all the emotions flying. I need to learn to stay calm and just respect her feelings right now. Hopefully she doesnt move on to someone else in the mean time. I messed up a little today and sent her sister a message on facebook. I know that was bad and wrong but last time we went through this her sister was right by my side helping out. This time shes moved into an apartment with her and shes only 17. I dont think she wants me to come back in the picture because then she might have to move back home.


This is like watching a train wreck. Do not message her family trying to manipulate her into coming back to you. Your stbx will accuse you of stalking/harassing her. It is VERY unattractive and will only serve to drive her away further.


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## us2 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Love Must be Tough?-new going through impending divorce*

Hi Everyone,
I am new to the site, and just came from MC where my H told the counselor he has no love for me, and is considering divorce. Counselor asked if he was ready to file and he said no. He has been divorced twice before (this is my first marriage). I have read LMBT and want to know what to do. I didn't fall apart in the session, just sat and listened, as it shouldn't be a surprise to me. He comes home late, we do nothing together, and basically only greet each other in the a.m. I am leaving for a planned out of town trip tomorrow for 4 days. What should I be doing/not doing? Any advice is helpful, as I am freaking out.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

To begin you should start your own thread about this topic...


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

*Re: Love Must be Tough?-new going through impending divorce*



us2 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to the site


It's considered "rude" to tell your own story in the middle of someone else's topic, and most people will not answer your questions.

Here's what you can do to fix this. Copy your entire post and then paste it into a brand new thread (topic) in the proper section of this forum, and then edit your post above to delete all of your questions and just write 'post deleted off topic' or something like that. 

You will get your answers and some good advice.


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## us2 (Aug 1, 2012)

I am so sorry, and I will change to a new thread-thanks for letting me know!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

It just makes it very confusing to have multiple situations going on in one thread..


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> What if she only wants to out of PITY, and/or to placate, pacify, avoid an argument, keep the divorce track running smoothly? Is it a good thing then?


I cant help but to think thats exactly what shes doing. Then she says she needs space and blah blah blah so I leave her alone and give her time to move ob further. Although I do have a little hope that she is being truthful and just needs time to figure herself out before she can come back to this relationship.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> I know how much you want to encourage her to try again. I felt that too. But all this pushing MC/sex/more time with her... is just driving her away. If you want any chance of her changing her mind, you have to stop with the hard sell already and start waiting for her to come to you. Seriously.


Good Point.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> He should go and focus all his time and attention on his child. Be a happy family man almost as if his stbx is not there.


This is the game plan for Thursday night. Being there with my little girl and not focusing on the W.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

GetTough said:


> Your situation is a LOT like how mine played out. With hindsight later, I believe you will likely see things how I do now, which is hard for you to see right now.


I was trying to find your story on here but no luck. How did yours play out.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

This Morning has been a difficult one. Last night I called her on the way home from work to make sure I was getting our daughter since there was a mix up on the scheduling. Everything went smooth and we hung up. 30 minutes later I realized I didnt ask what day she was coming to pick her up so I called back but no answer. Sent a text no answer. So I said I figured this would happen after she got what she wanted out of me from moving her stuff. She texted me back "what happen to giving me my space?" I said all I needed to know was when she was getting our daughter. She told me what day and I said I'm giving you as much space and time you need so when I call its only about something that needs to be discussed. So today I'm feeling pretty crappy but still giving her the space she needs. Not sure what its all about, Not sure if she really needs this space to figure herself out or if its just to keep everything smooth until she can get the divorce rolling. I like to think she cares enough about me still that she would just tell me I dont need space and time I just want it to be over. Which she pretty much has before saying she doesnt feel the same and that her hearts not in it anymore and she doesnt want to be fake and lie about her feelings but then she says she just needs time and space to figure things out. Shes had the divorce paper work for about 3 weeks now and still hasnt filed. She said she was going to this week so I guess I'll just have to see. How long does it take for someone to serve you?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Should I ask if she is going to file for divorce or if she is wanting to give it time first or just act like I dont even care


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Don't ask her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I really don't get this chick.... at all...


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I really don't get this chick.... at all...


me either, its so confusing so it makes me have high and lows and makes it tough for me to follow and stick to a plan. I'm starting to wonder if I'm just better off not trying anymore. I'm sure in a couple of hours I'll feel different. Welcome to the roller coaster of Hell I guess.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

keko said:


> Don't ask her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok I'll just let it be.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

don't ask, just start moving on. you are really trying to push her back, which is exacerbating the issue. just move on, and if she comes back to you, great. but all this pushing isn't going to help.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> don't ask, just start moving on. you are really trying to push her back, which is exacerbating the issue. just move on, and if she comes back to you, great. but all this pushing isn't going to help.


I am trying to move on each day I get a little closer. She knows how I feel about R so I dont think there is anything else I can do but to better myself and set myself up for the future. Hopefully she realizes she wants to be in that future as my W. IC starts next week. I cant wait because I really need it right now.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Should I ask if she is going to file for divorce or if she is wanting to give it time first or just act like I dont even care


Stop asking her questions. It makes you appear weak, insecure and "not in control" and makes it more likely that she's going to leave you.

Does this sound familiar? It should.



Orange1 said:


> I said I'm giving you as much space and time you need


When you say this type of thing to her, it's obvious that she's got all the control. 

For someone who is supposed to be a "follower", she's got you by the balls and you aren't giving her any reason to change the status quo.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> For someone who is supposed to be a "follower", she's got you by the balls and you aren't giving her any reason to change the status quo.


I think the whole giving her space is geared towards moving on with life. So I'll do the same and hopefully that will be reason for her to change when she sees me moving on.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I think the whole giving her space is geared towards moving on with life. So I'll do the same and hopefully that will be reason for her to change when she sees me moving on.


As long as you realize that she may not come back to you. Do it for you, not her.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> As long as you realize that she may not come back to you. Do it for you, not her.


Just for me, I'm ready to start making some progress. I have a IC set up for tmw afternoon. I cant wait to spill everything out in there its going to feel good.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Just for me, I'm ready to start making some progress. I have a IC set up for tmw afternoon. I cant wait to spill everything out in there its going to feel good.


It does feel good to talk to a counsellor. Let us know how it goes.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

What are youhoping to find through counselling?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> What are youhoping to find through counselling?


I need to find myself again. The past 5 months I have been in a horrible depression. I need someone to talk to in person thats going to give me good advice on getting myself prepared for the future no matter what happens with this seperation. I need the counseling so I can also understand how a marriage is suppose to work so I dont train wreck my next one or If i get another chance with my W now.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Today is the day of my first IC counseling and also my 24th birthday! What a way to spend it first work in the morning then straight to counseling. This morning my W dropped our daughter off at 6AM because she had to make it to work early and couldnt drop the baby off so she needed me to. Like always I'll help out when I can especially if it involes my baby girl. She did give me a card but no hugs or anything of that sort. The card was so bland it was something you give to your neighbors sons birthday lol. Then all it had was happy birthday (heart) kk and baby K. Its like she wanted to put the least amount of anything in there to let me know hey I dont want you to think I care. So I asked what time I needed to be ready to go for my birthday dinner and she asked why it mattered if I had other plans afterwards. I just repeated myself. Trying to stay positive but its getting hard to do knowing that everything doesnt seem to be getting better and she keeps getting more distant. I have been good about not talking about us and giving her space and being short but being happy and cheerful at the same time even though inside I'm crushed. Last night I was looking under the couch for the wedding ring my daughter somehow got and hide lol. But I found her Journal . . . As much as i didnt want to read it I did and I said screw it and read it as wrong as that might be. BOY dont I wish I saw that Months ago!!! All the signs were in there thats where she was pouring her emotions instead pouring them to me. I wrote a entry into it at the end and wanted to give it to her this morning but didnt still not sure If I want to I may rip it out. One thing she did write in there was Love Conqers all when all else falls. That really hit my heart because all else fell and she still left. WTF!


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## burgh_mom (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi again Orange1,

IMHO her see-saw reactions merely reflect yours. This dance has apparently worked in the past. Sounds to me like guilt not love though. I would be careful how you are trying to gauge her feelings.

Another caution is that it sounds to me like she is expecting the MC to make some kind of judgement s/he is not equipped to make. Only the two of you know if there is a chance for the marriage. 

My recent experience: My H was looking for an ally in our first counseling session. When he didn't get it in the MC, he refused to go back. We're in the NC (no contact) phase now. I'm tired of the name calling and hateful texts. Who needs that, really? So I just don't write back anymore.

Good luck with the MC. Hope you are both open enough to work it with love.


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## burgh_mom (Jul 9, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> As long as you realize that she may not come back to you. Do it for you, not her.


This is a great point. Orange1, I belileve the goal is to get yourself back to the "real you," the you that she was attracted to in the beginning...the you that didn't "need" her. It's weird but in my experience that independence is very attractive. The needy, whiny, please-don't-leave-me mate would make me want to run. Fast. She may feel trapped near that guy. Open the cage. Let her go. You want her to come back of her own free will, not from guilt or dependency or manipulation.

Free will. Be strong. Even if you lose her, you'll be a step closer to moving on yourself.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

burgh_mom said:


> The needy, whiny, please-don't-leave-me mate would make me want to run. Fast. She may feel trapped near that guy. Open the cage. Let her go. You want her to come back of her own free will, not from guilt or dependency or manipulation.
> 
> Free will. Be strong. Even if you lose her, you'll be a step closer to moving on yourself.


It has taken me a while to realize it but you and everyone else is right. I have to let her go to even have a chance of getting her back. I'm doing my best to be independent and strong. Not only mentally but physically too. I think she will notice over time and hopefully that grass aint so green on the otherside and she wants to R. I pray its just not to far down the road. I told her I'm giving her the space she wants and that she wont hear a peep out of me about us. That I'm moving forward in life with or without her. She has seemed to enjoy it so far.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

I read a quote today for work: "Train yourself to let go of the things you fear to lose" - George Lucas


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> I read a quote today for work: "Train yourself to let go of the things you fear to lose" - George Lucas


Thanks I like that qoute!


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Happy birthday, Orange! I hope you enjoy your dinner tonight. What a great opportunity to show her what a terrific, strong, independent guy you are. :smthumbup:

HHugs.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Should I ask if she is going to file for divorce or if she is wanting to give it time first or just act like I dont even care


Try to need nothing from her. Independence = strength = attractive.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I cant help but to think thats exactly what shes doing. Then she says she needs space and blah blah blah so I leave her alone and give her time to move ob further. Although I do have a little hope that she is being truthful and just needs time to figure herself out before she can come back to this relationship.


Her feelings probably shift from mostly feeling no hope and wanting to move on, to occasionally having a glimmer of doubt that she's doing the right thing, not wanting to hurt you unduly. If you continue to show desperation evidenced by lack of acceptance, continually wanting contact, you will reinforce her wanting to move on, because neediness is highly unattractive, instinctively to both sexes, and she will have to begin to hurt you harder.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> But I found her Journal . . . I wrote a entry into it at the end and wanted to give it to her this morning but didnt still not sure If I want to I may rip it out.. WTF!





Orange1 said:


> I told her I'm giving her the space she wants and that she wont hear a peep out of me about us. That I'm moving forward in life with or without her. She has seemed to enjoy it so far.


I'm going to give you a homework assignment. 

I want you to figure out why telling her that you are giving her the space she needs, and that "she won't hear a peep out of you about us" is a REALLY bad idea.

Along those same lines, I want you to tell me why writing in her journal and showing it to her, or ripping pages out of her journal (that she will eventually discover) is also a REALLY bad idea.

Once you figure out why those are both REALLY bad ideas, assignment number 2 is as follows:

Somehow erase your tracks in her journal and put it back where you found it without saying anything to her and STFU about how you are "giving her space" and you are "moving on with or without her".


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I was trying to find your story on here but no luck. How did yours play out.


I made many of the mistakes that are normal for guys to make, that I try to help guys on here avoid making. So we divorced a little more than a year ago, separated a year before that. I may have been able to save it (who knows) but it would have taken more relationship experience and more ability to detach, certainly more than I had at the time. I have a young daughter. Things are not great yet with my ex, but they are much better, now that I'm putting into practice many of the things I talk about here. The biggest difficulty I had to overcome shortly after separation was that I told her family about my suspicions she was having an affair... and I did so by email in a way that was damaging to her reputation. That was a mistake. I have in the past believed that it is right to expose an affair. However now I think that it is a dangerous thing to expose an affair, and it may often be better to let it play out naturally. I now think it is much stronger to take a nonchalant approach than be afraid of the competition.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> This Morning has been a difficult one. Last night I called her on the way home from work to make sure I was getting our daughter since there was a mix up on the scheduling. Everything went smooth and we hung up. 30 minutes later I realized I didnt ask what day she was coming to pick her up so I called back but no answer. Sent a text no answer. So I said I figured this would happen after she got what she wanted out of me from moving her stuff. She texted me back "what happen to giving me my space?" I said all I needed to know was when she was getting our daughter. She told me what day and I said I'm giving you as much space and time you need so when I call its only about something that needs to be discussed. So today I'm feeling pretty crappy but still giving her the space she needs. Not sure what its all about, Not sure if she really needs this space to figure herself out or if its just to keep everything smooth until she can get the divorce rolling. I like to think she cares enough about me still that she would just tell me I dont need space and time I just want it to be over. Which she pretty much has before saying she doesnt feel the same and that her hearts not in it anymore and she doesnt want to be fake and lie about her feelings but then she says she just needs time and space to figure things out. Shes had the divorce paper work for about 3 weeks now and still hasnt filed. She said she was going to this week so I guess I'll just have to see. How long does it take for someone to serve you?


Every time you think about initiating contact, ask yourself if there is any way you can manage without. If you can manage without, do so. At first she will be relieved to have the space, then the power balance might shift. Make her miss you!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GetTough said:


> I made many of the mistakes that are normal for guys to make, that I try to help guys on here avoid making. So we divorced a little more than a year ago, separated a year before that. I may have been able to save it (who knows) but it would have taken more relationship experience and more ability to detach, certainly more than I had at the time. I have a young daughter. Things are not great yet with my ex, but they are much better, now that I'm putting into practice many of the things I talk about here. The biggest difficulty I had to overcome shortly after separation was that I told her family about my suspicions she was having an affair... and I did so by email in a way that was damaging to her reputation. That was a mistake. I have in the past believed that it is right to expose an affair. However now I think that it is a dangerous thing to expose an affair, and it may often be better to let it play out naturally. I now think it is much stronger to take a nonchalant approach than be afraid of the competition.


Was she having an affair?


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> me either, its so confusing so it makes me have high and lows and makes it tough for me to follow and stick to a plan. I'm starting to wonder if I'm just better off not trying anymore. I'm sure in a couple of hours I'll feel different. Welcome to the roller coaster of Hell I guess.


You ARE better off not trying any more. The ONLY thing you should be trying for is your own health, wealth, making new relationships etc... focus on YOU. That is your best chance of getting her back.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

burgh_mom said:


> This is a great point. Orange1, I belileve the goal is to get yourself back to the "real you," the you that she was attracted to in the beginning...the you that didn't "need" her. It's weird but in my experience that independence is very attractive. The needy, whiny, please-don't-leave-me mate would make me want to run. Fast. She may feel trapped near that guy. Open the cage. Let her go. You want her to come back of her own free will, not from guilt or dependency or manipulation.
> 
> Free will. Be strong. Even if you lose her, you'll be a step closer to moving on yourself.


I think this is a great post.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> ...I told her I'm giving her the space she wants and that she wont hear a peep out of me about us....


Don't explain yourself to her, or tell her your plans without very good reason. Think about why you're telling her this. You're telling her because you're trying to say "I'm doing what you want... therefore I have your interests in mind, I'm good for you... therefore you should want me back".. By saying this you're selling yourself to her. Rationalizing. It's instinctively unattractive to her. It's classic "nice guy", pleading "please buy me" and it's *especially* unattractive in your situation. You have to stop all that persuasion, do what YOU want for YOU, as though she no longer existed. Be very careful doing anything that even happens coincidentally to be what SHE wants. It is very difficult in your situation to do *anything* she wants without it damaging your interests. Doing what she wants will almost always appear needy and as though you are trying to manipulate and/or buy her back. Try to have as little to do with her as possible for a while. Help her if and only if it really helps you, and don't explain yourself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GetTough is on this.

Attraction is subconscious.

We instinctively wish to say no to people who are "selling"


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Today is the day of my first IC counseling and also my 24th birthday! What a way to spend it first work in the morning then straight to counseling. This morning my W dropped our daughter off at 6AM because she had to make it to work early and couldnt drop the baby off so she needed me to. Like always I'll help out when I can especially if it involes my baby girl. She did give me a card but no hugs or anything of that sort. The card was so bland it was something you give to your neighbors sons birthday lol. Then all it had was happy birthday (heart) kk and baby K. Its like she wanted to put the least amount of anything in there to let me know hey I dont want you to think I care. So I asked what time I needed to be ready to go for my birthday dinner and she asked why it mattered if I had other plans afterwards. I just repeated myself. Trying to stay positive but its getting hard to do knowing that everything doesnt seem to be getting better and she keeps getting more distant. I have been good about not talking about us and giving her space and being short but being happy and cheerful at the same time even though inside I'm crushed. Last night I was looking under the couch for the wedding ring my daughter somehow got and hide lol. But I found her Journal . . . As much as i didnt want to read it I did and I said screw it and read it as wrong as that might be. BOY dont I wish I saw that Months ago!!! All the signs were in there thats where she was pouring her emotions instead pouring them to me. I wrote a entry into it at the end and wanted to give it to her this morning but didnt still not sure If I want to I may rip it out. One thing she did write in there was Love Conqers all when all else falls. That really hit my heart because all else fell and she still left. WTF!


Put the journal away, don't talk about it, forget about it and her as much as you can. If she asks for it back, just give it to her, say little. Don't make it obvious you read it.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Was she having an affair?


I have a lot of circumstantial evidence that something was happening around 2007 with an ex of hers. I'm 90% sure she lied to me about him. She was definitely seeing someone else during our separation. I don't know if her relationship with this second guy pre-dated our separation, it may have done. However it's the first guy I'm close to certain EA happened, if not PA.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

kindi said:


> I'm going to give you a homework assignment.
> 
> I want you to figure out why telling her that you are giving her the space she needs, and that "she won't hear a peep out of you about us" is a REALLY bad idea.


Never mind, someone did your homework for you.



GetTough said:


> Don't explain yourself to her, or tell her your plans without very good reason.. You have to stop all that persuasion, do what YOU want for YOU, as though she no longer existed. .. Doing what she wants will almost always appear needy and as though you are trying to manipulate and/or buy her back. Try to have as little to do with her as possible for a while.


I can only hope you pass the final exam.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I do have an update from today. I had counseling this afternoon which went really good I liker her a lot she really hits some good points. She also dropped my rate which is even nicer. I headed home went to gym got myself feeling good picked up my daughter from daycare and headed to my W new house. Dinner went smooth we talked about random stuff and had a good time. We did get into it once about money and paying bills but we looked at each other and said lets start over. On the way home from dinner some how we got brought up about me getting to do things because I dont have as many bills and I just said that was her choice. We kept talking and some how the convo of love got brought up and she said If i wasnt trying to show you I love you I wouldnt want to take you to dinner. She said she wants to take it one day at a time. She also stated she wanted to go to counseling with me next week. Then she went on to say she could make it to church Sunday and that Saturday she wanted to come with me to the mall to get our daughters ears pierced. Then we got back to her house. She asked if I wanted to come in and hang out with her and the baby so I did for a little bit told her I was getting tired and needed to head home. As I was leaving i bent over to give my daughter some kisses since she was holding her and I guess she thought I was going to give her a kiss and kinda stuck it out there so I backed up and acted like I didnt see it but she was kinda flustered knowing I did. So she just hugged me and kissed me on the cheek and I said see ya later. Any thoughts on that night. Kinda confused now


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I think you guys are well on your way.. congrats..


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I backed up and acted like I didnt see it but she was kinda flustered knowing I did. So she just hugged me and kissed me on the cheek and I said see ya later. Any thoughts on that night. Kinda confused now


Sounds like you played it cool and things went well. 

Nice job.



Orange1 said:


> On the way home from dinner some how we got brought up about me getting to do things because I dont have as many bills and I just said that was her choice.


You're probably going to have to help her out with the bills. 

It might have been her choice to move out but from a legal point of view now that you are living apart you are obligated to provide for your wife and children regardless of who left or why especially if you earn more than she does and there is a large disparity in the income. 

This is getting into an area where you'll really need to consult with an attorney but she has a point, whether you like it or not. If you refuse to give her support, it's going to probably get ugly and you might even get slapped with a support petition.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I do have an update from today. I had counseling this afternoon which went really good I liker her a lot she really hits some good points. She also dropped my rate which is even nicer. I headed home went to gym got myself feeling good picked up my daughter from daycare and headed to my W new house. Dinner went smooth we talked about random stuff and had a good time. We did get into it once about money and paying bills but we looked at each other and said lets start over. On the way home from dinner some how we got brought up about me getting to do things because I dont have as many bills and I just said that was her choice. We kept talking and some how the convo of love got brought up and she said If i wasnt trying to show you I love you I wouldnt want to take you to dinner. She said she wants to take it one day at a time. She also stated she wanted to go to counseling with me next week. Then she went on to say she could make it to church Sunday and that Saturday she wanted to come with me to the mall to get our daughters ears pierced. Then we got back to her house. She asked if I wanted to come in and hang out with her and the baby so I did for a little bit told her I was getting tired and needed to head home. As I was leaving i bent over to give my daughter some kisses since she was holding her and I guess she thought I was going to give her a kiss and kinda stuck it out there so I backed up and acted like I didnt see it but she was kinda flustered knowing I did. So she just hugged me and kissed me on the cheek and I said see ya later. Any thoughts on that night. Kinda confused now


It sounds to me like there are two main possibilities: either she is being devious e.g. for financial reasons, which a LOT of people are capable of doing anytime, but especially during divorce, OR there is good news that there is some hope for you. Possibly both lol. Play it cool because this hope can dissipate in an instant if you act needy or in any way that hurts her. Just be strong, remain somewhat detached emotionally, and only moderately available. I think it's probably good you didn't kiss her. There is a theory that the ideal situation for both people is always one where the man needs the relationship a *little* less than the woman does. Therefore the power is fairly balanced but the man always has the slight power advantage. I believe this is the state of relationships that feels most "right" to both men and women.

When you're together, listen more than anything and validate her feelings (without necessarily agreeing with everything she says). Don't solve problems. Often women just want to talk. They don't always want answers, quite often they just want someone to understand how they feel. Show her that you understand her, and can connect by sharing feelings and experiences you have in common. Don't initiate heavy topics like reconciliation or finances for a while, (it sounds like you might still be pushing, instead of focusing on understanding her). If she raises them be cautious in your responses. Be especially suspicious if she seems to be only keeping you around for money, that's a big red flag, in which case you should detach a lot more than you are right now and not be a chump. I'm hoping for you that she is more sincere than that. If she mistreats you or acts in any way clearly unreasonably, don't hit back or argue, simply immediately make yourself unavailable for a little while again.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Glad you had anice evening, Orange. I hope this is a new beginning for you both. Just three words of advice: proceed with caution.


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## burgh_mom (Jul 9, 2012)

atta boy orange1  if it helps, i found it enlightening to make a list of 100 things i could do INSTEAD of texting my husband. and if he texts me or calls, i try to go longer and longer in between replies, unless it's business (about the kids or medical appts). i'm cheering you on...


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I think you guys are well on your way.. congrats..


I like to think so Sad but its so up and down with her. Today I asked if she wanted to go to lunch but she said shes got laundry and sleeping to catch up on. It's making me crazy but then again I might be pushing it to fast again. Then again I do work about 45 min from where she lives now to.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I like to think so Sad but its so up and down with her. Today I asked if she wanted to go to lunch but she said shes got laundry and sleeping to catch up on. It's making me crazy but then again I might be pushing it to fast again. Then again I do work about 45 min from where she lives now to.


No more asking her to lunch, coffee, or anywhere else! Let her come to you.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

You know tough, I cant help but to think she is being devious. Maybe just because of how she was so strongly ready to get this divorce finalized then all of a sudden it slowed way down. Not sure but I'm willing to bet she wont make it to counseling on thursday. Theres a good chance she will show up tmw and sunday for church because our daughter is Involved but counseling she isnt involved so I bet that day she has to "work late". I could be wrong and I sure hope I am. Going to try and distant myself still a little bit and give as much space as I can to her. Hope everything falls into place but she could be playing me to make her life easier right now.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> No more asking her to lunch, coffee, or anywhere else! Let her come to you.


Yeah once again pushed a little to much and got my feelings hurt but I cant blame her.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Yeah once again pushed a little to much and got my feelings hurt but I cant blame her.


I'm leaving for a wee holiday (see Frostflower's journal) and I may not have Internet access. So I may not be around to nag you. Remember my words.....NO MORE chasing her!!!


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Yeah once again pushed a little to much and got my feelings hurt but I cant blame her.


Blame yourself for shooting yourself in the foot yet again.

What part about "be distant and detached, stop chasing her, stop asking her questions" don't you get?

It's not a matter of "blaming her" it's a matter of making changes in how you deal with her to better yourself, prepare for the likely inevitability of divorce, while not ruining any chance of reconciliation however slim it may be, worse with each passing day and every time you mess up again by either asking her out to dinner, or questioning her about her feelings, or something else that makes it clear to her that you are unable to stand alone.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> You know tough, I cant help but to think she is being devious. Maybe just because of how she was so strongly ready to get this divorce finalized then all of a sudden it slowed way down. Not sure but I'm willing to bet she wont make it to counseling on thursday. Theres a good chance she will show up tmw and sunday for church because our daughter is Involved but counseling she isnt involved so I bet that day she has to "work late". I could be wrong and I sure hope I am. Going to try and distant myself still a little bit and give as much space as I can to her. Hope everything falls into place but she could be playing me to make her life easier right now.


You have a healthy dose of scepticism. This is good. It's difficult to keep a clear head in your situation so you're doing well there. If your suspicions are proven beyond doubt, you really must detach a lot more or you will lose any respect that she might still have for you. You are still initiating WAY too much. Try to focus on your life without her.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Weekend update : Well Friday didnt go so good, as hard as i tired to not bring us up I wanted to know what the one day at a time meant and as you can imagine it didnt go well. Needless to say she is getting all the space she needs now. She didnt show up Saturday and I didnt call to see why or if she was going to I just went and got what I needed to get done. Sunday she texted me to make sure we were still on for Church. Told her yes and I would meet her there. Church went good, we dropped off our daughter in the day care and as we were walking away she made a comment about I hope no one ask if were married . . .haha sounds like shes embarressed? She said she would rather have K with us so it was more of a family thing even though putting her into the day care was her idea. I played it cool and didnt do much talking just stayed real distant and even scooted away from her when we sat down to give her some "space". When we left not much was talked about she just said that was good and i said yeah and she said she had to go and I said bye. Pretty simple and plain. I have decided to give her as much space as she needs. Hopefully she still shows up for MC on Thursday but I'm not going to remind her.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Whats the best thing to do when you want to text or call the W. I need something to help take my mind off it.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Weekend update : Well Friday didnt go so good, as hard as i tired to not bring us up I wanted to know what the one day at a time meant and as you can imagine it didnt go well. Needless to say she is getting all the space she needs now. She didnt show up Saturday and I didnt call to see why or if she was going to I just went and got what I needed to get done. Sunday she texted me to make sure we were still on for Church. Told her yes and I would meet her there. Church went good, we dropped off our daughter in the day care and as we were walking away she made a comment about I hope no one ask if were married . . .haha sounds like shes embarressed? She said she would rather have K with us so it was more of a family thing even though putting her into the day care was her idea. I played it cool and didnt do much talking just stayed real distant and even scooted away from her when we sat down to give her some "space". When we left not much was talked about she just said that was good and i said yeah and she said she had to go and I said bye. Pretty simple and plain. I have decided to give her as much space as she needs. Hopefully she still shows up for MC on Thursday but I'm not going to remind her.


I'm proud of you, Orange! You handled Church extremely well. And you're right, don't remind her of MC. Keep up the good work!


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Weekend update : Well Friday didnt go so good, as hard as i tired to not bring us up I wanted to know what the one day at a time meant.


You asked her on Friday what she meant by taking things one day at a time?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You asked her on Friday what she meant by taking things one day at a time?


Yes I know, Shoot me . . . Its not that easy to just back away. I ve been good since Friday though. Its been eating me up inside but I'm doing it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Maybe she was thinking of this?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Yes I know, Shoot me . . . Its not that easy to just back away. .


I don't know what else to tell you other than if you can't find a way to get this done, then you're probably going to lose her for good.

Maybe that will be enough.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> I don't know what else to tell you other than if you can't find a way to get this done, then you're probably going to lose her for good.
> 
> Maybe that will be enough.


Trust me Kindi that last one was enough, She even said to me do you realize all your doing is pushing me farther away by not giving me space. So I'm giving her all the space she needs and working on myself. The book the love dare has helped me a lot understand the way I should have been treating her.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Trust me Kindi that last one was enough, She even said to me do you realize all your doing is pushing me farther away by not giving me space. So I'm giving her all the space she needs and working on myself. The book the love dare has helped me a lot understand the way I should have been treating her.


Better late than never.

Too bad it had to come from her first.

Now she knows you're backing off because she told you that your clinginess is pushing her away.

Realize there's been a lot of damage done here by your continued waffling on the 180, and not giving her space, and asking her out on dates, and asking her about what you might expect from her going forward, but what can you do other than continue on, do the best you can and hope she'll come around.
.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Hang tough, buddy. You can do this. Come on.

I actually didn't even bother getting up to give her a goodbye hug when she left my apartment the other day, and that took a boatload of self-control. It hurts, but it gets easier.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Whats the best thing to do when you want to text or call the W. I need something to help take my mind off it.


One good thing might be to re-read the description of the 180.

Beyond that, go for a walk, exercise, call a friend, write her a letter that you are NOT going to send.....any other ideas, people? This boy needs help.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

So far every time I want to send her something I just think about how its going to ruin any chance of R. I noticed she unblocked me from Facebook so now she pops up in tags that we have mutual friends on and some how she can see mine because she will ask me things about my post. Decided to block her today so I dont see anything anymore and maybe she will wonder why I blocked her.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> Hang tough, buddy. You can do this. Come on.
> 
> I actually didn't even bother getting up to give her a goodbye hug when she left my apartment the other day, and that took a boatload of self-control. It hurts, but it gets easier.


Thanks Sky, This has to be the toughest thing I ve ever had to do. I imagine if I get through it things can only get better.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Decided to block her today so I dont see anything anymore and maybe she will wonder why I blocked her.


If you had asked prior to blocking her I would have advised you not to. She unblocks you, you go and block her, it's nothing more than hostile manipulative game playing on your part.

Especially when you are doing such a poor job of implementing the 180. You're STILL doing things to try to get a response out of her, hence your statement that she will "wonder why you blocked her". Since you have kept right on asking her to spend time with her, asking her about her feelings and trying to get reassurance that she'll work things out, by you blocking her all it's going to do is send her the message that you're being spiteful, because you're doing anything BUT maintaining a cool, detached attitude.

Remember the 180 is for you, not for her.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> If you had asked prior to blocking her I would have advised you not to. She unblocks you, you go and block her, it's nothing more than hostile manipulative game playing on your part.
> 
> Especially when you are doing such a poor job of implementing the 180. You're STILL doing things to try to get a response out of her, hence your statement that she will "wonder why you blocked her". Since you have kept right on asking her to spend time with her, asking her about her feelings and trying to get reassurance that she'll work things out, by you blocking her all it's going to do is send her the message that you're being spiteful, because you're doing anything BUT maintaining a cool, detached attitude.
> 
> Remember the 180 is for you, not for her.



You know its funny because after I posted that on her i realized I needed to unblock her. So I did and i doubt she even knew the diffrence because she would have let me know if she knew I blocked her. Anyways I'm still NC with her since Friday and its been tough. She called me today to tell me about our babys DR. APPT. She made sure to say "Im ONLY calling because of her DR. APPT.". All I did was say ok howd it go then My IC wanted me to ask if she wanted to come in together or seperate so I asked and she would rather go seperate right now. So I said ok no problem I'll talk to you later.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Come *ON*, Orange!! Dude, you're where I was a month ago. 

Stop backsliding! You can only do so much when you don't believe in yourself.

Right now, you are CONTINUING to give her the power over you. It has nothing to do with your marriage anymore. 

_STOP BEING A NICE GUY_. Put your foot down. You don't need to be led on and treated like this. You don't need this.

Repeat after me.

*YOU. DON'T. NEED. THIS.*


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> _STOP BEING A NICE GUY_. Put your foot down. You don't need to be led on and treated like this. You don't need this.
> 
> Repeat after me.
> 
> *YOU. DON'T. NEED. THIS.*


I feel like I'm making a little progress since Friday. I dont feel like I'm backsliding to much. I havent even contacted her since Friday, anytime we have talked she has called or texted me. Even at Church I made a point when she sat down to scoot over. At this point if she files for D then so be it. I dont have to put up with all her crap and then listen to her tell me how she loves me like a friend now. That she fell out of love with me. Its all Bull sh!t to justify what shes doing. Everyone sees it in our families and friends and there blown away by it. Screw it my life is more important right now I ve got to make sure I'm the best Dad for my daughter.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Atta boy. Has she even gone to IC? I've found that be a big red flag in my own situation. I've gone into it, she hasn't, which projects the image that *I* was the one who needed to change. It's a two way street.

Keep going, man. If you don't want to get closer to her, you shouldn't have to. Especially with how you're being treated.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

She hasnt gone yet. Thursday will be her first session with the C. I went last week to her set this one up for both of us but she kind of hinted that she would rather go alone instead of aruging about our relationship so I decided to skip out and let her do a single session. Hopefully the next session she will agree to do together and if not o well I'll go by myself. I'm fixing my problems in our relationship reguardless so I make either her happy or the next one happy because I know I messed up the million dollar question is does she want to fix herself for us.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

If she doesn't, then you know the answer.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> If she doesn't, then you know the answer.


I dont know it could take her a couple of sessions before shes ready to confront all our issues. She keeps saying she wants to work on herself before she can commit to us again. We both agreed that were real young and immature still and that maybe down the road we could make it work if we got help and bettered our selves but then a couple of convos later she has changed her mind and then back to that again. Shes back and forth so much it drives me crazy. Atleast with this NC I dont have all those up and down emotions she throws at me.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I dont know it could take her a couple of sessions before shes ready to confront all our issues. She keeps saying she wants to work on herself before she can commit to us again. We both agreed that were real young and immature still and that maybe down the road we could make it work if we got help and bettered our selves but then a couple of convos later she has changed her mind and then back to that again. Shes back and forth so much it drives me crazy. Atleast with this NC I dont have all those up and down emotions she throws at me.


She's right. She does need to work on herself before trying to commit to your relationship. Otherwise, it will be the same old same old. She's back and forth because she's confused. Give her the time and space to sort herself out, and figure out what she wants. For both of your sakes, she needs to make the decision about your relationship as a strong person who knows what she wants. It may not be what you want, but wouldn't it be better knowing that she made the decision as a together, rational person than as a confused, vacillating one?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

I do agree, I told her that even if she wanted to R right now I wouldnt just because it would fail again because we havent fixed anything. I didnt want her to say she would commit to me I just wanted to know she was willing to change herself. I keep hearing about the No More Mr nice Guy book. I think I'm going to pick it up tonight. I ve been reading the love dare and its helped open my eyes as far as what love really is.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I do agree, I told her that even if she wanted to R right now I wouldnt just because it would fail again because we havent fixed anything. I didnt want her to say she would commit to me I just wanted to know she was willing to change herself. I keep hearing about the No More Mr nice Guy book. I think I'm going to pick it up tonight. I ve been reading the love dare and its helped open my eyes as far as what love really is.


Who's the author?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> I do agree, I told her that even if she wanted to R right now I wouldnt just because it would fail again because we havent fixed anything. I didnt want her to say she would commit to me I just wanted to know she was willing to change herself. I keep hearing about the No More Mr nice Guy book. I think I'm going to pick it up tonight. I ve been reading the love dare and its helped open my eyes as far as what love really is.


https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Awesome thanks Conrad!


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## 36Separated (Aug 5, 2012)

Sorry but can some explain the 180 ?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Shes back and forth so much it drives me crazy.


In the past few days, you went from begging and pleading to (finally) telling her that you are not ready to reconcile until you both work out your own individual problems.

How do you think SHE feels?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> In the past few days, you went from begging and pleading to (finally) telling her that you are not ready to reconcile until you both work out your own individual problems.
> 
> How do you think SHE feels?


She's probably more confused than I am. Love and emotions can make you act out and do crazy things. I think I may be getting past that crazy barrier. I think I'm gaining a little, not much but a little self control. No one ever said this was easy and I know everyone helping me right now ( which I greatly appreciate ) is thinking this boy is a mess. Well yes I am but like I said progress is being made on my side little by little even if I take a few steps backwards I'm still taking one step farther forward when I rebound. I know its only been since Friday since I ve turned my attitude around but you got to start somewhere and today is Tuesday and I'm still at it and had another run in with her today where it was really hard to bite my tongue but I did.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

You definitely sound like you're getting a handle on things.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Little update : So I'm coming home from the gym and I'm walking into the house and my phone goes off. I knew it was going to be her so I didn't bother looking. Then I get a text message so I check my phone and she said this " Dude WTH have you done to K. We were just at dinner and she went crazy. She never acts like this." I didn't respond but I wanted to know what was going on so I waited for the call back because I knew it was coming. Anyways she asked me why she was acting like that and if she ever did anything crazy like that with me and I just kept my answers to short. I dont knows and Yes/No answers. Then I would say ok well I got to . . . then she would butt in and ask something stupid like O did my mom call you today. Or do you think its her terrible twos. I mean I tried saying I got to go I'll talk to you later 5 times before she finally said ok bye. Thought that was funny how its my fault my daughter acted out with her. I wanted to go full into about how kids are going to misbehave and blah blah blah but no sense just letting it go. Hopefully the separation isnt taking a effect on her attitude. Shes only 14 months.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> You definitely sound like you're getting a handle on things.


I'm hoping so because I'm giving it all I ve got!!! What do you think about what I just posted about the situation that happened today?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I'm hoping so because I'm giving it all I ve got!!! What do you think about what I just posted about the situation that happened today?


You're doing great, but maybe don't try so hard..

Just sit back, relax, and sort of adopt that "laid back and casual detached attitude". Convince yourself that you're doing just fine without her and live your daily life as if she's not a part of it. That way you're not shoveling sh*t against the tide" or however the expression goes.. rather you're just sort of rolling with it as some sort of new found, exciting way of life where you don't have the pressure of trying to maintain a difficult and tense day to day relationship.

It gets easier.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

She seemed a little sad today when she was telling my about our daughter and I was trying to get off the phone with her and she kept trying to ask different questions.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> She seemed a little sad today when she was telling my about our daughter and I was trying to get off the phone with her and she kept trying to ask different questions.


That's nice, she's sad.

Stop dwelling on how she's acting and how she might be feeling.

It's football season soon. How about those Jets?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

kindi said:


> That's nice, she's sad.
> 
> Stop dwelling on how she's acting and how she might be feeling.
> 
> It's football season soon. How about those Jets?


Haha How bout them Jaguars!!!


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

No More Mr Nice Guy man this is a great book. Im half way done with it and its opened my eyes to a whole new world.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

Don't let her find out you're reading it.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

That book is a life changer. You'd be surprised at how much you can learn about yourself.

You'll also be surprised at how easily you can apply it to daily life(not just relationships). It's done wonders for me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Orange1 said:


> She seemed a little sad today when she was telling my about our daughter and I was trying to get off the phone with her and she kept trying to ask different questions.


Did you want to fix it?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Did you want to fix it?


Did I want to fix her being sad? No, at that point I could have cared less. I just thought it was kind of funny usually she is rushing to get off the phone with me but it was the opposite way this time.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> That book is a life changer. You'd be surprised at how much you can learn about yourself.
> 
> You'll also be surprised at how easily you can apply it to daily life(not just relationships). It's done wonders for me.


Yeah its def. an all around good book for any life changes.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

So this morning I get an E mail from my Mom forwarding me an E mail from my W. She wants my Mom to go to the Park with her and baby K to "chit chat" about somethings. Not sure whats up with that? Its going to be on Friday after work so I'm going to do everything I can to make sure I'm not there when she meets up with my Mom. I guess the change in behavior has her thinking a little. Probably trying to keep tabs on me now. Going to keep pressing forward with my life. No more setbacks going full speed ahead.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Conrad said:


> https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


Thanks, Conrad. It may be written for men, but it looks like its worth the read for us ladies too.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Today has been a really tough day for me. Even though Im breaking down inside I'm still not showing her. She called me early this morning to tell me she had to cancel her counseling because she had to work a double because someone called out. I guess its good she still rescheduled it for Tuesday. Although I showed it didn't bother me it was killing me inside. It's almost like she could careless about going even though she said she wanted to go but there was no way she could make it. I feel like if it was important enough to her she would find a way to make it. Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing to much?? My mom and her have a date tmw with our little girl to the park because she wants to talk and catch up. Not sure if she wants to talk to her about things because they were always close and she wants to hear thats its not to late to come back. Or she could be going to make sure that she wont be mad when she files for divorce and wants to make sure my mom and her will still remain close. Its just odd that she emailed my mom to set things up a day after she had our daughter go nuts and felt she might be affected by the split. I'm so confused and I got my hopes up thinking she may be wanting to work on things. The more I think about it and talk to my mom it seems more like she wants to make sure her and my mom stay close. Not sure what to think. Any thoughts? How should I act tmw when she shows up?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> I'm so confused and I got my hopes up thinking she may be wanting to work on things.


Which part of the 180 says to have high hopes for your spouse to comeback?

You're confused because you're focused on her instead of yourself.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

How should you act? You should act like what you are.....a strong, confident, independent man. For yourself, not her.

You do realize that earlier in your post, you said you planned to be out when she came. Now you are asking how you should act around her. 

Deep breath, Fella. Think it through. Whatever you do, do it because its right for you, not because you think it will help to get her back.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Yall are right I need to calm down and get my head straight. Just one of those days where I couldnt see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know that whatever happens I'll be fine.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Yall are right I need to calm down and get my head straight. Just one of those days where I couldnt see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know that whatever happens I'll be fine.


That's more like it! 

When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, come here and get some of us to walk with you.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ we're going on a walk...? can i come?  

I'm right there with you Orange... I know it's tough. You are a good person and you mean well... two things needed to be successful in life. Keep your head up! Show her that you can talk with her, keep things civil, but that you don't need her. Take charge, take the lead in your life. She'll see soon enough how much of a man you really are. Or not. But either way, you'll be the person you love. And that's what attracts others.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ^ we're going on a walk...? can i come?
> 
> I'm right there with you Orange... I know it's tough. You are a good person and you mean well... two things needed to be successful in life. Keep your head up! Show her that you can talk with her, keep things civil, but that you don't need her. Take charge, take the lead in your life. She'll see soon enough how much of a man you really are. Or not. But either way, you'll be the person you love. And that's what attracts others.


Anytime, Matty! 

Matty is right, Orange. You are a good person. If she thinks you're not good enough for her, it's her loss.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Today she decided to text me and ask when I was going to do my concealed weapons classed. I just responded soon. Then she says she wants to go with me. I didnt respond . . . Whatever happened to space? Then she text me again asking if I'm going to be home after work. I told her I was loading the bikes in the truck for her and my mom then leaving. Then I got an ok that we need to spend time with K together so she can see us as a family so were going to watch a movie. The past week my daughter has been acting very weird and odd and we've both noticed the change in her behavior. So I said to her I ve noticed the change in her and it seems to be taking an affect on her. She said shes noticed it to and that shes sorry. That she thinks K is trying to adjust to everything and it may take her awhile. That tears me apart that she could care less its taking an affect on our daughter but as long as shes happy it doesnt matter she will adjust to it. I dont think she will ever adjust to something like this. Shes just going to be a different person in life.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> The past week my daughter has been acting very weird and odd and we've both noticed the change in her behavior. So I said to her I ve noticed the change in her and it seems to be taking an affect on her. She said shes noticed it to and that shes sorry. That she thinks K is trying to adjust to everything and it may take her awhile. That tears me apart that she could care less its taking an affect on our daughter but as long as shes happy it doesnt matter she will adjust to it. I dont think she will ever adjust to something like this. Shes just going to be a different person in life.


No she won't get it, because it's all about her needs. I am noticing changes in the behavior of my two girls, kills me. Just be sure hold her, kiss her, tell how much you love her and that you both will always be there for her.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Today she decided to text me and ask when I was going to do my concealed weapons classed. I just responded soon. Then she says she wants to go with me. I didnt respond . . . Whatever happened to space? Then she text me again asking if I'm going to be home after work. I told her I was loading the bikes in the truck for her and my mom then leaving. Then I got an ok that we need to spend time with K together so she can see us as a family so were going to watch a movie. The past week my daughter has been acting very weird and odd and we've both noticed the change in her behavior. So I said to her I ve noticed the change in her and it seems to be taking an affect on her. She said shes noticed it to and that shes sorry. That she thinks K is trying to adjust to everything and it may take her awhile. That tears me apart that she could care less its taking an affect on our daughter but as long as shes happy it doesnt matter she will adjust to it. I dont think she will ever adjust to something like this. Shes just going to be a different person in life.


You should not be spending anytime with her for now. If she asks why tell her you're busy, helping someone out, fixing something, going out with friends, etc. Find whatever excuse you can to push her away, if she has anything in her heart towards you she'll find a way to come back. If not, well there's another closure for you my friend.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

keko said:


> You should not be spending anytime with her for now. If she asks why tell her you're busy, helping someone out, fixing something, going out with friends, etc. Find whatever excuse you can to push her away, if she has anything in her heart towards you she'll find a way to come back. If not, well there's another closure for you my friend.


I agree. Besides, won't your little girl be more confused if you are spending time as a together family, then apart? My kids are older and R hasn't contacted them anyway. Maybe someone with young children who is in the same boat could comment on this.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Weekend update - Friday went good her and my mom came back from the park and then we spent time with K together. She then decided she wanted to stay the night so we watched a movie and just cuddled. There was no way I was sending her out the door and no way I wasnt cuddling when she wanted to. Saturday we didnt really talk except at night when she was asking what I was doing that night just said going out then it was goodnight see you tmw. Sunday I didnt hear from her until about 4:30 saying she wasnt going to beable to make it to church in time and she was exhausted. So she wanted to go get dinner later on that night instead. We got dinner and had a good time no talking about us just hanging out. Then once again I stayed the night at her house and watched a movie. Not sure whats going on anymore because she doesnt like to talk about it. I did help her buy a new crib and bedset for the crib since I have our old one. Maybe she felt like she needed to be nice since I did that. I dont know.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Weekend update - Friday went good her and my mom came back from the park and then we spent time with K together. She then decided she wanted to stay the night so we watched a movie and just cuddled. There was no way I was sending her out the door and no way I wasnt cuddling when she wanted to. Saturday we didnt really talk except at night when she was asking what I was doing that night just said going out then it was goodnight see you tmw. Sunday I didnt hear from her until about 4:30 saying she wasnt going to beable to make it to church in time and she was exhausted. So she wanted to go get dinner later on that night instead. We got dinner and had a good time no talking about us just hanging out. Then once again I stayed the night at her house and watched a movie. Not sure whats going on anymore because she doesnt like to talk about it. I did help her buy a new crib and bedset for the crib since I have our old one. Maybe she felt like she needed to be nice since I did that. I dont know.


I don't know, but sounds beyond being nice 'cause you helped her buy a crib. Don' t press her on it though. Just go with the flow.....to a point. Don't complicate things with sex. Just work on hanging out when she wants to and on being friends. It may evolve into more, but if it doesn't, at least you will have established a good relationship for moving on. She will always be a part of your life because of your little girl, and you want to have a good relationship if for no other reason than your daughter.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> She then decided she wanted to stay the night so we watched a movie and just cuddled. There was no way I was sending her out the door and no way I wasnt cuddling when she wanted to.


Then there's no way you're ever going to take control of this out of control situation and no way that she will see you in a positive way.

She is leading, she is making the decisions and you are following.

I suggest that the next time she wants to sit and cuddle you say very nicely but firmly that you don't think it's a good idea.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

donders said:


> Then there's no way you're ever going to take control of this out of control situation and no way that she will see you in a positive way.
> 
> She is leading, she is making the decisions and you are following.
> 
> I suggest that the next time she wants to sit and cuddle you say very nicely but firmly that you don't think it's a good idea.


Well, that's probably better advice than mine. I still trip over my heart.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Orange,

You sound like Plan B to me.

Does she have a posOM?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Orange,
> 
> You sound like Plan B to me.
> 
> Does she have a posOM?


Things arent so much a 180 anymore. She isnt seeing anyone else as she tells me and I believe her. She's not that type of person she would just straight up tell me if she was. Tonight is her first counseling session and she said she really wants to get in there to figure out why she was unhappy with our relationship. Yesterday she drove out and met me for lunch and we walked around the mall just hanging out. She has been using the word "WE" alot now. She says a lot of things now when we talk about R but I'm still not sure. I made a comment about I know her and her sister are living together now and that might make her decision tough to move me in. That her sister may feel obligated to move out and she commented that No we already talked about it that if we were to get back together she could stay or we could get a bigger place. Also yesterday I said something about not sure if things are getting better and she commented I never said they werent. Its all full of ups and downs but I like to think there have been more ups. Friday we are taking my daughter to the zoo. So she is def. wanting to hang out more now with no problems or excuses.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

donders said:


> Then there's no way you're ever going to take control of this out of control situation and no way that she will see you in a positive way.
> 
> She is leading, she is making the decisions and you are following.
> 
> I suggest that the next time she wants to sit and cuddle you say very nicely but firmly that you don't think it's a good idea.


Maybe having to much control of the situation isnt whats working for people who are trying to R. Especially if one of the reasons your W left was because you were to controlling.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Maybe having to much control of the situation isnt whats working for people who are trying to R. Especially if one of the reasons your W left was because you were to controlling.


I'm looking forward to hearing about your positive results.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Here is the way I'm looking at it. I understand the not giving them control over your emotions. If my W wants to hug or kiss then thats her taking an action on trying to get closer to me. If I ignore her emotions then its the same ol person as before who ignored her emotions. You ve got to find a balance between all of this. As I see it the 180 is for yourself so you can move on. As of right now I cant accept its over because shes showing signs of R. I'm finding that happy medium where i give her the space she needs to figure things out but when she wants a hug or to cuddle I'm not going to refuse that because those are chances to bring each other close again. Now if we do end up in a D then thats when all that stops of course. Every situation is different everyone on here cant do the exact same thing the thread below you is doing. It almost seems like 75% of the responses on her are move on accept its over and do the 180. Not saying I havent gotten a lot of good advice on here because I have. I do have control over my emotions. If I dont want to talk to her or text her I dont. If I dont want to see her I wont, butI do want to see her so when she wants to have family time I accept. I dont text her all day i wait for her to text me. Maybe I am on the back burner right now but I'm on a mission to get my wifes love back so any openings I get I take the shot and I've been hitting dead on. Hows that for confidence. God is Great!


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> Here is the way I'm looking at it. I understand the not giving them control over your emotions. If my W wants to hug or kiss then thats her taking an action on trying to get closer to me. If I ignore her emotions then its the same ol person as before who ignored her emotions. You ve got to find a balance between all of this.


No one says ignore her. Most of the advice is to take a cool, detached attitude. Since she doesn't know what she wants, you aren't going to hinge on her every action, you're going to make yourself less attainable and work through your own issues as you plan for the possibility that things are not going to work out, sort of hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

What you're doing right now.. when she wants to cuddle or have sex, you're there, when she changes her mind and doesn't want you around, you leave.. you're like a puppet.

That's not attractive to her, and it's not doing you any good at all, no matter how much you rationalize it to be something more like "when she wants me there I will be there for her".

Nice guys finish last.


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## Tminus1 (Aug 12, 2012)

Hi Orange

I have been reading your thread very closely and I am in a very similar situation as you are. I understand your fear and desperation to get your family back together. I think one thing you are missing about this entire process is YOU!!!

Every peiece of advice anyone gives you your response is
Yes I will do that so "SHE" will........ 

Its not about her, its about YOU!!

What you are not realizing is once you put into practice the 180 process, you will undertsand yourself so much more that you will no longer have doubts or questions regarding your next move. Detaching yourself from this situation does not push her away. It allows her the freedom she requested, while simultaneously giving you new perspective and CONTROL. Not control over her but control over YOU. 

It appears as if things are moving in a positive direction for you at this point. But should things take a change, if she decides to flip on you again, please take time to focus on YOU. Dont do the 180 to get her back. Do the 180 so that you can deal with this situation in the most advantageous way possible, for YOU, and your daughter.

Its hard to see now, I know. But trust me I was in your place just a few days ago and thats all its taken for me to get some peace of mind. 

Good Luck! I feel optimistic for you!


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

We just don't want to see you get hurt again.

I feel optimistic for you too, Orange. Know that we're rooting for you and whatever you do, know that we are here for you.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks Everyone. Still not sure how things are going to turn yet but she asked me to set up a MC for the both of us at the same time. I also got a few I love yous and she stayed the night last night. Still see some distance in her though proceeding with caution still.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Any updates?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Hey everyone sorry I havent been able to update this in a while but there has been a million things I needed to share on here and havent had the chance to do it.

Anyways Wedensday Morning around 6:30 I got a call from my W saying she was real sick and needed to go to the doctor but couldnt drive or barley get out of bed. So I took off work and got her to the doctors brought her back to my house and took care of her for the next three days. Thursday night she got in the shower couldnt help myself but look in her phone. There was a text from a guy stating he liked there friendship the way it was with a little sex on the side... She replied back no I like just being friends and that was it. I confronted her about it she said yes she did have sex with him one time it was the biggest mistake of her life and she wishes she could take it back. That night she was also telling me how she wanted to be 100% fully commited to me. I told her I could forgive her as long as she never spoke wth that guy again and ditched that crowd. She agreed and said they werent worth what I mean to her. Things have been somewhat good. She has been trying to make things work which is making it easier on me. unfortunetly she confessed again saturday night that there was one more guy that she met at a bar and they hooked up in his truck but it didnt last long because she felt so bad... whatever that means. She wanted to tell me everything so we could move forward but I'm having a tough time forgetting. I have forgiven her but I cant get the thoughts out my head. I want to trust her again but its going to be real hard. She is fully 100% commited to making this work but now I'm not sure if I can move forward because of all this damage done.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

All kind of sumed up probably left some things out but thats basically the past couple of days in a nutshell


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Orange,

This is called trickle truth.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Orange,
> 
> This is called trickle truth.


Explain?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

a little truth at a time to not hurt your feelings, but also to tell as little as possible. 

much more happened than what she told you... she just gave you the tip of the iceberg.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks, Do I think she has slept with anyone else than what she is telling me? No I do believe she has now told me everything thats worth telling me. We were seperated with every intention on it being over. Things that were done are done and nothing we can do about them now. Atleast we were seperated, not much you can do about that. I have my fair share of things that I did wrong to.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Orange, you know the old saying that actions speak louder than words? She is doing one thing and saying another, and you believe her words because you desperately want her back even though she's really giving you no reason to trust her or believe she wants back. 

Look at what you wrote here about recent events:



Orange1 said:


> So I took off work and got her to the doctors brought her back to my house and took care of her for the next three days.


She was very sick, feeling weak, vulnerable, and there you were for her as always. Of course she feels thankful, and somewhat obligated, and probably guilty for her transgressions, being that you are so nice to her even with everything she did.



Orange1 said:


> I confronted her about it she said yes she did have sex with him one time it was the biggest mistake of her life and she wishes she could take it back.


She didn't tell you about it until you confronted her, with proof. She had no choice. That's what trickle truth means.. telling the other person only what they already know and leaving out everything else. It's very telling that she kept things from you until she had no choice. She "wishes she could take it back". She's telling you that to make you feel better. She had sex with the guys because she WANTED to, make no mistake. 



Orange1 said:


> That night she was also telling me how she wanted to be 100% fully commited to me.


Fully committed does not equate to hooking up with a guy that she picked up at a bar plus screwing at least one other guy that you know of. 



Orange1 said:


> She has been trying to make things work which is making it easier on me.


How is separating and screwing other guys "trying to make things work"? What has she done to try to fix things that were broken by her continued cheating? 



Orange1 said:


> unfortunetly she confessed again saturday night that there was one more guy that she met at a bar and they hooked up in his truck


No further comment on what a one night stand means about her level of commitment to you. 




Orange1 said:


> She is fully 100% commited to making this work but now I'm not sure if I can move forward because of all this damage done.


Sounds to me like she'll keep cheating, telling you she wants to make things work, and you'll keep believing her and forgiving her almost immediately, until such time as she no longer wants to come back.

Your actions make it clear you'll put up with almost anything she does and she knows it.

You were advised to toughen up and not be such a doormat and your response was that being tough isn't for you. Well, being a nice guy doesn't seem to be getting it done.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

These other guys were in the past, right? As far as you know, she is no longer behaving that way. Has she given you any reason lately that she is not trying to make it work? If not, go ahead and try. Otherwise you will never know. Just go in with eyes wide open and remember everything you have learned.

If you're not sure you can go ahead, knowing what you know, then put it on hold for a while or go very slow. Those images will fade if she is right for you.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> These other guys were in the past, right? As far as you know, she is no longer behaving that way. Has she given you any reason lately that she is not trying to make it work? If not, go ahead and try. Otherwise you will never know. Just go in with eyes wide open and remember everything you have learned.
> 
> If you're not sure you can go ahead, knowing what you know, then put it on hold for a while or go very slow. Those images will fade if she is right for you.


Frost, there in the past. She knows what she did was wrong she is at her knees trying to make me stay because I have told her I'm going to try to look past it but she has to be patient with me. I'm making her show me that those things are in the past. She is so remorseful of what she did and even went as far as calling herself a *****. I have no indication that she is still doing anything. She has openly allowed me to check anything I want when I want to assure me nothing is going on. I told her I'm going to be insecure for a while about things until she can prove to me that she is in it for the long haul. She said that she fianlly realized a couple weeks back what she had and saw she was losing it thats why she started coming back around. Which was before she was sick.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

donders said:


> Orange, you know the old saying that actions speak louder than words? She is doing one thing and saying another, and you believe her words because you desperately want her back even though she's really giving you no reason to trust her or believe she wants back.
> 
> Look at what you wrote here about recent events:
> 
> ...



Donders, I was going to type out a long reply to everything but I think to make it short and sweet would be better to sum it up for you. As of right now I'm in control of everything not her. Just because I'm still letting her prove to me she is commited doesnt mean shes walking on me . . .Still dont understand how you think I'm a doormat. People make mistakes, Just because I wanted to steal the candy from the gas station when I got caught I realized I was being dumb and it was a mistake. Wont happen again. Now if I thought she was going to continue to lie to me and party and do all these things behind my back of course I would be gone. Heres the thing she is showing me change and I'm a tough critic so she is doing beyond well. Fully commited your right does not mean screwing a guy well she wasnt fully commited when she screwed that guy and I never thought she was fully commited then. She is now not then


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

I thought the hookup guy was recent.

If it was in the past, I misunderstood- sorry.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

donders said:


> I thought the hookup guy was recent.
> 
> If it was in the past, I misunderstood- sorry.


Well no the hook up guy was from when we seperated. We seperated June 30th. She hooked up with the guy 4th of july weekend. So yes they were recent. Saying that though she was not commited to us and wanted to divorce. It's horrible to hear but at the same time in both of our minds we were done. It wasnt until a little later in July did I start relizing what was happening and it took her a little longer. Bad things happened on both of our parts. She is now the one proving to me though. Shes the one begging me now to forgive and stay.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange, it sounds like the two of you are in as good a place as you can be right now, and it will only keep getting better if you continue with the same attitude. Trust will take a long time to grow, just keep working at it. Are you in MC? I think that would help you both to work on issues and grow the relationship.

From what you have said about her remorse and willingness to work on your marriage, I don't think you're a doormat. I think you are lucky.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

It sounds like you have the power back in the relationship, which is a great place to be. Congratulations. She will respect you if you respect yourself. Slowly, gently get to the bottom of the issues that led her to cheat. Those probably involve things she needs to change AND you too. But continue to give focus to the things you can improve in yourself. I think being less beta in the relationship going forward, being fun but edgy and challenging with her in future will help you keep her attraction for you alive. Do not rest on your laurels. She may not have any intention of cheating again right now, but most likely if she feels the need to cheat again in future you will lose her for good. Figure out what she's looking for in other guys and then you'll know where you are lacking from her perspective. Tell her to be brutally frank with you and tell her what kind of guy she is looking for. Remember to change for yourself only though. It may be that some of the qualities she is looking for from other guys are self-improvement areas that appeal to you. In which case, working on those would be a win-win. Don't rest on your laurels. Not the best of news for you hearing she slept around, but great outcome at this time so far, this rocks for you.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

ANy updates?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Sorry no updates for a while on this. Everything has been pretty good with us for the most part. Unfortunately as I stated in the past threads that there was some damage done on her part with other guys. Still to this day I ve told her I'm going to look past it and move forward but I'm still having trouble dealing with those issues. The past week or so we have not been getting along and I ve been distant. The thoughts have been killing me and I just cant accept what she did. I have almost convinced myself there is no way for this to work. She is wanting this so bad and I just cant make a connection anymore.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Sounds like the 180 worked, and if this doesn't work, you will be ok with it.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

You know its funny how all this is playing out. She has left me twice and I was completely devasted both times. This last time towards the end I started to gain a little hope that I was going to make it though. Almost seems like everytime you get a little more numb to the situation. When she finally came back this last time the reilef was amazing I couldnt belive she finally came back. Then I found out about the two other guys after a week or so into it. I put everything I had into this relationship to make sure it worked this time around. Now I feel way to much damage has been done during those times she left and I dont think I can be happy with her. I'm just stuck in the middle because I know I'll miss her like crazy being gone and I think most of that is a sexual crave from her. I dont think I'll miss her as a person because we really havent gotten along and I dont think I can forgive her for what she has done. So now I have been the one being distant and not giving her what she needs. She has been trying and putting in 110% now that she see's I'm heading for the door.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> You know its funny how all this is playing out. She has left me twice and I was completely devasted both times. This last time towards the end I started to gain a little hope that I was going to make it though. Almost seems like everytime you get a little more numb to the situation. When she finally came back this last time the reilef was amazing I couldnt belive she finally came back. Then I found out about the two other guys after a week or so into it. I put everything I had into this relationship to make sure it worked this time around. Now I feel way to much damage has been done during those times she left and I dont think I can be happy with her. I'm just stuck in the middle because I know I'll miss her like crazy being gone and I think most of that is a sexual crave from her. I dont think I'll miss her as a person because we really havent gotten along and I dont think I can forgive her for what she has done. So now I have been the one being distant and not giving her what she needs. She has been trying and putting in 110% now that she see's I'm heading for the door.


Orange, I'm sorry it is not going well for you. No R can ever work unless the cheating spouse completely gives up the OM/OW. How much is she willing to try now? Does the 110% include giving up all present and any possible future men? Does it include going to MC with you? How committed is she, or is it just panic at seeing you pull away?


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> Orange, I'm sorry it is not going well for you. No R can ever work unless the cheating spouse completely gives up the OM/OW. How much is she willing to try now? Does the 110% include giving up all present and any possible future men? Does it include going to MC with you? How committed is she, or is it just panic at seeing you pull away?


Shes gave up all the other guys saying they were mistakes and that she wished they never happened. I told her I forgave her but its been really hard forgetting...so I'm not sure if I have totally forgivin her. The first month was mostly me giving it all I had and not getting much in return although we were happy. It was lopsided but I was just happy having my family back. Then I just started feeling differently because things weren't how i pictured them. We had a long talk and I started to change and distant myself. Now the roles have reveresed and shes giving it all she has and I'm not. I almost feel like I have mentally seperated myself from her. The bad part is that I know if we spilt I'm going to feel like crap again. I honestly dont see me being with her for the rest of my life. the way she presents herself ( dresses ) for work is kind of "****ty" and I told her thats not the best way to be leaving home with me having trust issues. Knowing the only reason she dresses like that is to get attention. Dont know what to do or what I need to get a kick in the butt to get back on path, I dont want to regret anything but as of right now I just dont see it working.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Just a quick thought... is there a possibility that you are now uninterested because the chase is over? You caught her and now the conquest has been won and there are now other conquests?
Is it a case of you want what you can't have?

I'm not forming an opinion, but I know that I am that way with some things. My wife and I are back together now, living together, both happy, both giving it an honest attempt at bettering ourselves. 

But for some past relationships I know that once I got the girl I was uninterested.... that is until she moved on. Then I pursued again... Again, it's not that way for me now but it was when I was younger and didn't love the girl.


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## Orange1 (Jul 7, 2012)

At first I thought it may be that but I think it boiled down to not being able to forgive her for what she did while we split. Now on top of that I had to go to the doctor because I thought I had a UTI turns out that B!tch gave me Chlymidia. Thank God its curable but I can now say I'm offically done.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

Orange1 said:


> At first I thought it may be that but I think it boiled down to not being able to forgive her for what she did while we split. Now on top of that I had to go to the doctor because I thought I had a UTI turns out that B!tch gave me Chlymidia. Thank God its curable but I can now say I'm offically done.


No wonder she is desperate to get you back...


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

How are you holding up?


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