# Wife had EA, turned PA, then left. Doesn't think she cheated.



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

My best friend is gone.

We've known each other for 15 years. Been best friends since high school. I always wanted to be with her, but at the time, the interest wasn't returned. So I was content to be the friend, hear about all the other guys and their problems. I dated, and maybe loved, a few women myself. But through all of it, I daydreamed about getting that chance. After high school, that finally happened. We both fell for each other, and we just _knew_ we were done searching. Engaged two years later, married two years after that, celebrated a 4th anniversary back in October, and were making big plans for our 5th.

We were both happy, or at least I thought. Not perfect. Truth be told, over the last year or so, I had gotten a little complacent. I wouldn't say neglectful, but I know I wasn't meeting all of her emotional needs, and I could have done better. In November she sat me down, talked it all out, and I knew I had to change, and was working towards it.

Around the same time, she reconnects with one of her old high school BFFs (a girl) that she hadn't really seen or spoken to in a year and a half. She had also been in a long term relationship, and had recently left the guy for the same issues of neglect/complacency. I don't know if this sowed the seeds in my wife's mind, or if it was just a coincidence. I didn't think anything of it at the time, I was just happy they were hanging out again.

They make plans to go out to a club one night. They invited me along, but I figured they should have a girl's night out. And to be honest, night clubs have never really been my thing. That night, my wife makes a new guy friend, a mutual friend of her girlfriend.

A week or so later, I notice that she's suddenly texting...a lot. Normally our phone bill would only have 200-300 texts per month on her line, but now the phone is constantly dinging. I happen to look over her shoulder, and see his name. Ask her who he is, she tells me how they met, says he's "just a friend". She's had guy friends in the past, so I don't think much of it.

But it continues. Texting all the time. And now she's more guarded with her phone. I playfully express some jealousy, although suspicion is starting to prickle in the back of my mind. She continues to wave it off..."just a friend". Towards the end of December I look at the phone bill, and her 200-300 norm has spiked to over 2000 messages since meeting this guy in mid November, and over 1000 with him. Now I'm getting worried, but I wave it away. She wouldn't do that. She's always been the biggest defender of fidelity, always gets so angry when a celeb or politician is caught in a scandal. "If you're going to go after someone else, there's no excuse not to break it off with your current partner first."

She's also spending more time out with her friends. Never mentions him or if he'll be there. I assume it's all girlfriends. The night of 12/30, a Sunday, she goes out about 6 pm, says she's meeting up with this same girlfriend. For some reason my gut tells me to check, and through "Find my iPhone" I see she's at someone's house - but it's not her girlfriends. She comes home around midnight (very out of the norm for her on a week night), and says they just went to the mall, and back to the girlfriends to see a movie.

After she goes to sleep, I check the phone. I look at the texts, and I know she was with him, probably by herself (text to him that evening says "I'm here", not "we're here", as it should if she was with a friend). There's also a bunch deleted - per the phone records, there should be a couple hundred more than the ones I saw. I'm shell shocked. I don't sleep all night, and when she gets up the next morning, I confront her. First mistake, should have waited for more evidence. She admits they went over to his place, but that her girlfriend was with her, it was a spontaneous plan, and they really did watch a movie. Didn't want to tell me last night because she knew I'd be upset, but they really are "just friends."

I say fine. But I want to meet him. They next time they're all going out to the club/bar, I want to go. She hesitates, says that's not a good idea, and it would be awkward. Doesn't explain why. Now I just have more suspicions. Then, out of nowhere, she starts talking about how she thinks she might need some space, might go live with her mom for a while. That we've been having our own problems (true, from the talk in October), and now I'm being irrationally jealous. I talk her down from that, and she goes to work (I take the day off, having got no sleep that night).

That night we go to a New Year's Eve party with some friends. She's on the phone texting all night. Every time I see it, I pocket dial her, interrupting her texting. Tell her jokingly that we're here to spend time with friends, not our phones. She laughs it off, but I sense some irritation. On the way home that night, I decide that enough is enough. We've always had a promise to each other that if we had a friendship that made the other uneasy, we'd cut it off, no questions. I invoke that deal, tell her that I don't like this, that I want her to cool it with him while we're working on our own issues. She's only known him for a little over a month, that shouldn't be a huge sacrifice. She flips. I'm controlling, I don't get to tell her what to do. She packs her things that night, and leaves. Happy New Year.

I wasn't sure if there really was an EA, or if I was being crazy. I thought maybe it really was all about me. So I chased. Begged. No 180. Second mistake (first being the too-early confrontation). We did spend sometime together that week, and one night I ask her what her weekend plans are. She's going to the aquarium with her girlfriend. Alarms go off in my head - I remember from the texts I read a few nights ago that the OM is into aquariums. I ask if she's driving there, she says yes. Another alarm - this girl hates driving in the city, so to voluntarily do it on a weekend night? No way. I don't question it though. I give her a couple days of space, then the night she's there, I text her to ask her how it's going. No answer. I call a few hours later, trying to see if she has plans the next day. No answer. I check the phone details online - I see texts to her girlfriend (that she's supposedly there with), but not a single text to or from the OM. My heart sinks.

The next day, she comes over to get some more of her stuff. I ask her again about last night. She sticks to the lie. I confront her again. With the evidence in front of her, she says that yes, he was there - her and her girlfriend invited him at the last minute. The texts between her and the girlfriend were about things they didn't want him over-hearing. I didn't ask what. Then I get the "I'm not in love with you" speech. She's not sure she ever did. This was all a mistake. Totally whitewashed the past 8 years together. She's done, this is over. I have to accept it, she says. She didn't tell me about the OM the night before because she didn't want me going down the wrong track. He's just a friend, this is really about you. She wants a divorce. I'm just floored. It hasn't even been a week since she left. In the next couple days she wastes no time opening up her own bank account, severing as many financial ties as she can, getting more stuff out of our apartment, etc. Full speed ahead to D.

So the next week, I chase her some more. But my gut is eating at me. There's more to the story than this. So finally, I take the plunge, and I get all the texts and photos from her phone. Won't explain how I did it, but it was an invasion of privacy, and I don't feel good about it. But I had to know.

And it was all there. Flirtacious texts. Calling each other babe, sexy, cutie, etc. Sexual innuendo. Talking to her girlfriend about her feelings for him. All of this, spanning from before she left, and after. Texts proving that on multiple days after leaving, she had gone over to his place. Even worse, she trashes me to her friends, and to the OM. Psycho, loser, weirdo. "Psycho just won't get it, we're done." I think that hurt more than anything else, but I figure that was her way of dealing with the guilt of the affair. She was supposed to be my best friend. I did see texts to her girlfriend saying that she no longer had feelings for him, only wanted to be friends with him now. But they were recent, from the same day I obtained them.

I said nothing to her, but the next day, she must of figured out I had all of this, and that she was busted. She comes over, tells me I need to know everything. The first time she met him, he hit on her, she shut it down. A couple weeks later, they went out as a group again, they were dancing, he was kissing her neck. She shut it down again. The weekend before she left, they all went out again, he tried to kiss her, and she didn't stop it. They made out. She swears that's as far as it went. Admitted that the night of the 30th, when she was over there watching a movie - she was alone, and it had been the plan the whole time. Night at the aquarium? Same thing, her and him alone, always the plan. That she did have feelings for him, but they had passed, and they really were just friends now. 

But she argued that she hadn't cheated. There as no affair here, EA or PA. Her leaving really was still all about me, nothing to do with him. No remorse from her. Guilt about lying, sure - and she said she only lied because she didn't want me thinking she left for someone else. But I think if she hadn't found out I knew, she never would have come clean (if you can call that coming clean). I thanked her for her honesty, and she left.

A couple days later, after stewing on it, I emailed her, and told her that until she could admit that this was an affair, and show some remorse about it, there was nothing here to salvage - relationship or friendship (which she told me throughout the separation that she really hoped we could stay friends). That I was willing to forgive her, but I can't forgive what she's not sorry about. She wrote back that she had apologized for lying, and the rest of this was simply "semantics" that she wasn't going to talk about anymore. The OM had nothing to do with her leaving, that she has no romantic interest in him, and no romantic interest in me. And she's not sure if she even wants to be friends with someone who thinks she's a cheater. I told her, I don't think you're a cheater, I know you are. And left it at that.

Haven't talked to her since. It's been a few days now. I don't know if she's in a fog, I don't know if this was just an exit affair. I don't know if it's too late, if I made too many mistakes dealing with this. I still have the evidence, I could expose, but is there a point to it? All I know is that I miss my friend. I know that we can't go back to this M, that I could probably never trust her again, even if she wanted to try for R. But I miss her friendship. I just keep reminding myself that friends don't treat each other this way. That she's a stranger now. But it still hurts, that 8 years together, and a bright future, have all been seemingly destroyed in a span of four weeks.

Sorry this is so long. If you read this far, thanks. Guess I'm just looking to vent.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I guess I should add that I know what I have to do. Lawyer up, and serve her. I'm still not sure if I want to pursue grounds of adultery. In my state, I only need enough circumstantial evidence to prove a desire and an opportunity to have intercourse. I think I have that. But I'm not sure if it's worth the inevitable extra money. 

We have no kids. No property (apartment lease is up in March, she's moving into a new place with a room mate, I'm settling with my parents while I regroup and figure out where I want to go). Joint account is already closed (we both took our pieces of it beforehand). It should be a simple divorce if I go with no-fault, but I still hate the idea of just letting her get away with all of this with no consequences. Then again, what does filing with fault really do other than some public shame (I still haven't exposed anything to anyone besides my own immediate family, because I needed someone to talk to).

I guess a small part of me still wants to believe she's in the fog. That if she gets served at work, and knows I'm serious, maybe she'll have second thoughts about all of this. I guess that's impossible as long as she doesn't think she did anything wrong. I don't know why I have that hope - I still don't think I could take her back, but I guess I at least want to see her try to make an effort.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes she is in the fog and the best way to get her out of it is wishing her the best do everything you can to push her to the otherman and and smile as she engages you.

A tactic that will get her to think twice in what she is about to lose when she see's how confident you are in letting her go.

You made soem misstakes doen the road but you are were you are and no is the time to regroup no more begging but do what you can to bring the two of them together.

See this tactic shows what a fantasy this all is whne you sen d her on her way. tell other why you are sending her on her way and cut her off finaciall y now that she has someone else to support her.

In short bring the reality of what she want to the very front of her mind. You are gone she now has OM for what ever you were providing her. 

I get you love her but until she gets a taste of the reality of her choices she will remain in the fog.

Give her everything she wants even bring the kids over to stay with the OM...again another tast of the reality she has not a clue about.

Get it?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No kids, then wish her the best , Find OM place and drop off all her crap at his house.

Again you are happy for her, smile and help her move on with her new life ASAP.........a tactic that will not only shock you wife, but the OM as well.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You're on the right track. Dump her.

You're already a couple steps ahead. You know when you don't see true remorse. Find a faithful woman and move on with your life. You're too young to waste time with a cheater.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She will get out of the fog soon enough when she is walking around town with all her crap wondering were she will go next and why the OM doesn't want her and her baggage.

I know you love he man, but this tactic of swift desisive action on your part will break that fog down like no bodies business.

You and her can regroup after the OM bails on her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Until the Om is out of the picture and sees he isn't a night in shining armour all is lost, what better way to prove that he is a night in shining armour when she comes knocking on his door wih all her crap, no cell phone, no car insurance, health insurance and no money period.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't make friends with people that lie to and about me.

I don't put up with anyone who would belittle me in a cowardly way. If you think poorly of me and want to express it to anyone. Express it to my face first.

And the "fog" is a a bullsh1t excuse. Tell her to hit the road. Have some dignity.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Bring these two together, expose it and welcome it, it will just be a matter of time that it was all just a fantasy and the man she really loves cuz he realy loves her is you.

make her face this choice to be with some one else so she can see what he really is.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The tough love and perception of postive renforcment with her choice will do 2 things, it will get this crap moving on and it will show your wife that this guy doesn't love her as much as he tells her.

I bet once this guys sees that she is now his problem he will bail.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The POS is banking on the fact that you will beg and hang on to her and support her while he gets all the benifits. Prove him wrong!

Even if your chick is laying to him all the more reason to move out and get away from this terrible husband. let him get a taste of her real BS .......the sooner the WW and AP get together the sooner the affair will break up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Note to self. If your young wife wants to go to a club with her single friend and wants you to go ... go.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I know first hand how hard a pill is to swallow, but tough love will push her away, nice guy begging to work it out will push her away....the only way to get her back is to push her away with the best acting you can muster up and move her into the othermans arms so that the realtiy sets in and the fog lifts....especially when the OM wants no part of your plan......get it?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She was likely never as into you as you were into her. Starting from the very first, and I mean HS. It didn't take a whole lot for the other guy to get her to drop her skivvies, less than a week - her denials notwithstanding. It took you several years to get to 1st base.

She just didn't have the courage to cut you loose in a civil way - nor the integrity to do it without cheating. She tried him on for size to see if she was capable of forming a bond with someone else.

She probably found him to be too flirtatious and a player with other girls so she cooled it with him but found that thrill of newness hard to resist. She's gone. Good riddance. Count your blessings you didn't have kids with her.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone.

Couple of things:

She did say that her and the OM were no longer interested in each other (or at least she's not interested in him). Normally I'd say she's still lying, but I did see the texts to her girlfriend saying the same thing, and that was before she knew that I had any evidence. So I'm inclined to believe her on this point. Yet she's still adamant about getting out. That said, they are still friends. I wonder if she still has unresolved feelings that she won't even admit to herself. Or if she's just still riding the high of the EA/PA, and she's thinking that she'll be able to move onto someone else quickly to fill that void (anyone but me, I guess).

As for her finances, she took all the steps to take care of herself while I was still begging her to slow down before doing anything drastic. She has her own account now, own phone, own insurance. Her car's been paid off for a couple years now. She doesn't make great money, less than me, but she'll be sufficient on her own (at least until she has a big medical expense, car breaks down, or something along those lines).

And all the talk about positive reinforcement, trying to be happy for her. Our last email exchange was fairly bitter, and since then I've put up a no contact barrier. Should I knock that down, fake an apology for my anger, and show support (while still moving to file for D, of course)? Or keep out of contact and, if she decides to, let her come to me?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Note to self. If your young wife wants to go to a club with her single friend and wants you to go ... go.


E3 were where you a hundred years ago when I was going through this crap? You could have sent me a telegraph, I though all those speak easies were just for drinking, who would have thought my girls would have hooked up...LOL

We have to live and learn and what I have learned is letting them go right off the bat is the best why to get them back!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The next time she tells you it wasn't an affair just tell her everyone knows because her boyfrind has been bragging about it. Then watch her reaction.


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

mate, you've got to take a step back. you're so used to her being there that you can't see what's around you.

you don't have kids, count yourself lucky. i know how you are feeling right now. hell, we all know how you are feeling. but you can't let it run your life. if you have the stones for it, get really drunk and let it all out. a lot of people will advise against alcohol, but it is a good means to get you over that hump of being unable to act.

she doesn't give a sh1t about you. stop giving a sh1t about her. get rid of her, stop wasting your time & mental energy on her.. find someone else. or go solo for awhile. I know it's scary as fark to think about being alone after all this time of having what you thought was a companion, but YOU WILL BE OK.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Look upbthe 180, maybe in the newbies link. I cant post from this mobile. It wont even ley me spell, dsmit.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> She was likely never as into you as you were into her. Starting from the very first, and I mean HS. It didn't take a whole lot for the other guy to get her to drop her skivvies, less than a week - her denials notwithstanding. It took you several years to get to 1st base.
> 
> She just didn't have the courage to cut you loose in a civil way - nor the integrity to do it without cheating. She tried him on for size to see if she was capable of forming a bond with someone else.
> 
> She probably found him to be too flirtatious and a player with other girls so she cooled it with him but found that thrill of newness hard to resist. She's gone. Good riddance. Count your blessings you didn't have kids with her.


Sorry, didn't see this before my last post.

As hard as that is to swallow, it would make the most sense. She's always admitted being very insecure about herself, and self-conscious about her image.

Maybe with me she saw a guy who accepted her unconditionally, flaws and all, and even if she wasn't into me as much as I was into her, she thought she could make it work. Her girlfriend leaving her long term relationship put the idea in her head to finally jump, and the OM provided the landing spot.

She did say, when she was "coming clean", that she had been thinking about leaving since shortly after our anniversary, back in October, but she couldn't muster up the courage to do it. I told her that if she had done it then, I would have been heartbroken, but maybe we still could have been friends down the road. But to do it this was was just cowardly and deceitful (of course she disagrees). Really sucks.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

By the way, go to your favorite resturant and get your favorite dish to go, it will give you something to pick at so you can keep your strength up.....you have to eat, even if its a bite here and there. You'll get your appitite back in time. For now you will at least have something in the frig you like.

Also when the mind movies come into your head force them out by repeating to your self " I diserve good things" say it over and over again to keep the evil thought away...its called a montra. Just don't say it out load, folks will stear..
Back in the day I said it a million times a day.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

the guy said:


> By the way, go to your favorite resturant and get your favorite dish to go, it will give you something to pick at so you can keep your strength up.....you have to eat, even if its a bite here and there. You'll get your appitite back in time. For now you will at least have something in the frig you like.
> 
> Also when the mind movies come into your head force them out by repeating to your self " I diserve good things" say it over and over again to keep the evil thought away...its called a montra. Just don't say it out load, folks will stear..
> Back in the day I said it a million times a day.


My appetite hasn't been that bad in the last week or so. Even been making an effort to eat better than I did when we were together. Early on after she left, I could barely eat a thing all day. Couldn't sleep much either, waking up at random times during the night, and the dreams were the worst. The dreams have mostly gone away now, and I can get a full night's sleep - although waking up alone in the bed still hurts each morning.

I really don't feel that depressed anymore - I was before. Still sad, of course. Now, since finding out, I feel a mix of vindication..I'm not crazy, my gut was right....along with hurt and resentment. Angry that she's been going out virtually every night since leaving, having a blast with her friends (and with him). I keep getting the urge to take all my evidence, throw it up on facebook and say f her...but I've been swallowing it down for now.

But I'm sure I'm still on the roller coaster, and my moods will vary.

Thanks for the Jedi mind trick as well. That'll come in handy, I'm sure.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

rsersen said:


> My best friend is gone.
> 
> We've known each other for 15 years. Been best friends since high school. I always wanted to be with her, but at the time, the interest wasn't returned. So I was content to be the friend, hear about all the other guys and their problems. I dated, and maybe loved, a few women myself. But through all of it, I daydreamed about getting that chance. After high school, that finally happened. We both fell for each other, and we just _knew_ we were done searching. Engaged two years later, married two years after that, celebrated a 4th anniversary back in October, and were making big plans for our 5th.
> 
> ...


You're right, you didn't handle it perfectly but you handled it better than the majority of OP's that end up here. I'm impressed with how relatively clear headed you were through the ordeal. You are in a good place now.... that is, you are done with her. Thank your lucky stars you didn't get this woman pregnant. Sure you'll miss what you had, but if she was willing to destroy that after only 4 weeks then it didn't mean much to her. You should never trust her again. Give someone else a chance, she ruined hers. You have your life ahead of you, move on and be glad this happened sooner rather than later. Congratulations.


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Sorry, didn't see this before my last post.
> 
> As hard as that is to swallow, it would make the most sense. She's always admitted being very insecure about herself, and self-conscious about her image.
> 
> ...


NO. STOP IT. don't buy any of her sh1t. my ex-wife said the same type of ****, it's only to make themselves feel better.

don't listen to that sh1t. don't pay it any mind. don't worry about 'we could have been friends' or any of that sh1t. it's DONE. the sooner you accept it, the better off you'll be. your story is the same as so many others here, including myself.

FARK
IT
ALL

take the scorched-earth approach. there is no other option. if you want to come out of this with a shred of dignity intact, you MUST take the power from her.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Keep up the no-contact.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Keep up the no-contact.


Absolutely.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

rsersen: So sorry to hear your story. It has many similarities to mine. My stbxw allowed me to believe that her affair was "just" a texting affair. She told me the relationship was over (true). She gave me the ILYBIANILWY speech and talked about leaving. I talked her out of it and we tried to reconcile. It never worked.

Turns out, her EA (which I discovered late) had morphed into a PA. This was all before I discovered what I thought was an EA. I also discovered it by snooping - not proud of it either - but on the other hand, my stbxw was a lying cheat so her privacy means nothing.

My wife didn't confess her PA until AFTER we separated (told me on October 26th 2012 the night of our kids athletic banquet which we chose to go to as a family). I had to sit through that banquet knowing my wife had sucked and fcked another man's penis and I had to smile and clap for my kids achievements/awards. Roughest night of my life.

Sorry to say this, but I would guess that you're wife had a PA too. The POSOM wasn't pursuing her for texts. And your wife was in an EA and dissing you to her friends so a PA was just another small step.

You CAN reconcile after this - but it sounds like your wife is still very much in the fog. So don't waste your time. Separate and detach.

You're doing the right thing by reminding yourself that a "friend" would not betray you like this. She is NO friend. She is no longer the wife you love either. It hurts like hell, but that wife is gone forever. 

Until she comes out of her fog (IF she ever comes out) you need to work on yourself. Get some exercise. Make the most of the "stress diet" to get into great shape. Vent on this forum and get advice. Hang out with friends - confide in your good friends. Get support wherever possible. Expose. If you're having trouble sleeping get some sleep aids.

No kids?? Kick her out and expose.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Cedarman said:


> Turns out, her EA (which I discovered late) had morphed into a PA. This was all before I discovered what I thought was an EA. I also discovered it by snooping - not proud of it either - but on the other hand, *my stbxw was a lying cheat so her privacy means nothing.*


Good point. I think the main reason I don't just throw it all up on Facebook for our families and mutual friends is the fear that she might be crazy/angry enough to take legal action over it. Sure would be a lot easier than going from person to person telling/showing them individually.

I actually just made plans to visit with her brother and his fiance next week (they've been begging me to hang out since the news of the separation broke). Guess I'll start the exposing there. I really do like her family though, and I don't want to hurt them by showing them what their daughter/sister really is now. And I guess I'm a little afraid they'll just deny, get angry, and/or shut me out. But I know I have to do it.



> Sorry to say this, but I would guess that you're wife had a PA too. The POSOM wasn't pursuing her for texts. And your wife was in an EA and dissing you to her friends so a PA was just another small step.


I really think so too. I think she stopped at "we made out" because it was bad enough to confirm my suspicions and make me think it was the whole truth, while still keeping the entire ugly truth to herself.

I mean, the night after the make out session was when she was over there by herself all night. And apparently they only watched a movie and talked. They went from lip-locking in public, and then 24 hours later they get a good 4-5 hours to themselves in private, and all they do is talk? Sucks to admit it, but I really doubt it.

I'm almost tempted to bluff and tell her that I know they did the dirty, just to see if she'll assume I have more evidence and admit it freely. After all, once she figured out that I had the evidence of the EA, she had no trouble coming clean. Maybe it would work again. Then again, maybe I don't really want to know.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Go see the bil and just tell the truth very matter of fact nothing overly demeaning but let them know.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Like others have said you are lucky in that you don't have any kids with her, take care of yourself bro your young.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I wouldn't overlook the toxic friend angle.

Don't underestimate the camaraderie some women find with each other, especially when they're going out to clubs, hitting on guys, then talking and laughing about it later. It apparently is some type of bonding experience for them. They love all of the little dramas that come with going to a club, meeting new guys, getting into awkward situations, "saving" each other from losers, belittling the less "with-it" or attractive people behind their backs. I call it the "you go, girl" syndrome.

I can tell you a few real-life stories about BFFs that got engaged within days/weeks of each other, got married within days/weeks of each other, and left their husbands within days/weeks of each other.

There is a closeness to some female relationships that I have not seen an equivalence with in male friendships. They value their friend's opinions of them much moreso than any man's opinion of them, even their boyfriend's or (soon-to-be-ex) husband's. 

If you look through the threads on this forum, you will see some women who did this after 15-20 years of marriage, when they were in their 40s and one would think they were past their clubbing years - but now they fancy themselves "cougars" and love to go out on the prowl together.

What I find telling is that your wife was with other man alone, but was in constant contact with her toxic friend via text throughout. Your wife enjoyed the camaraderie of talking with her toxic friend about her new romance with the other man moreso than she enjoyed being with the other man. The psycho, weirdo comments also made me think this way, because the type of women who get into this type of lifestyle tend to become very cruel in their opinions of others, especially those they have no use for, like exes.

I also second walkonmars observation that she never was into you as much as you were into her.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm going to give you a rare gift... a look into your wife's future.

Read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...u-decide-leave-read-my-story.html#post1385676

Actually the gift is from Imadeamistake.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

the guy said:


> E3 were where you a hundred years ago when I was going through this crap? You could have sent me a telegraph, I though all those speak easies were just for drinking, who would have thought my girls would have hooked up...LOL
> 
> We have to live and learn and what I have learned is letting them go right off the bat is the best why to get them back!


Dude ... this is all relatively new to me. I have lived my life in a fog when it comes to this stuff. I am as clueless as any other good guy. But my eyes have been opened in recent years. I am not so much cynical as I feel enlightened at this point. It is likely riding the provebial wave. One can be too meek and one can be too agressive. Catching that wave takes some skilz I guess.

There is so much yet to learn ...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sandc said:


> I'm going to give you a rare gift... a look into your wife's future.
> 
> Read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...u-decide-leave-read-my-story.html#post1385676
> 
> Actually the gift is from Imadeamistake.


Clubbing and hookups get old after awhile and she will wonder what happened.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> If you look through the threads on this forum, you will see some women who did this after 15-20 years of marriage, when they were in their 40s and one would think they were past their clubbing years - but now they fancy themselves "cougars" and love to go out on the prowl together.
> 
> What I find telling is that your wife was with other man alone, but was in constant contact with her toxic friend via text throughout. Your wife enjoyed the camaraderie of talking with her toxic friend about her new romance with the other man moreso than she enjoyed being with the other man. The psycho, weirdo comments also made me think this way, because the type of women who get into this type of lifestyle tend to become very cruel in their opinions of others, especially those they have no use for, like exes.
> 
> I also second walkonmars observation that she never was into you as much as you were into her.


My stbxw was exactly this. Clubbing with her friends (who were all "Married" according to my ex) until 4 in the morning. When I found out they were ALL divorced or separated my wife said "I never said HAPPILY married". She told me she was just a "Wingman" which was supposed to make me feel ok about it. When I asked what happened to one of her friend's husband my ex said "Oh.... he was a LOSER". So now, I guess I am part of the "LOSER" club. :smthumbup:

The funniest thing my stbxw has said recently (after an argument during which I reminded my stbxw that SHE was the one who lied and cheated): "My friends said you would never forgive me for lying... they were RIGHT!" ..... except her friends have never met me and only know me via my stbxw's complaints. :rofl:

Oh... my stbxw is 48, hangs out at clubs until 4 am. Is actively pursuing a 35 year old. We were married just a few weeks shy of 25 years. So her "boyfriend" was actually a 10 year old BOY when we married.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I doubt it but maybe with this out in the open she may come out of the fog, who knows but you have to expose this so you are not demonized.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well Cederman I hate clubs too I'm an "old fart" at 45 but my gf is 27, no wonder I need 5 hr energy


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Well Cederman I hate clubs too I'm an "old fart" at 45 but my gf is 27, no wonder I need 5 hr energy


Much younger woman just doesn't seem as unnatural as a much younger man, to me. I guess that makes me a sexist pig. Just trying to picture when my stbxw is 60 and this guy is mid-40's. i wonder if her fake boobs will need an overhaul at that point or whether they'll be the only thing that's not sagging on her whole body?

When I was 27 my friends and I would look at mid-40's woman hanging at clubs with pity.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Clubbing and hookups get old after awhile and she will wonder what happened.


I'd like to think that. That this is a phase, trying to make up for what she may see as lost time. Peppered in with the talk of "I'm not in love with you" and "this was a mistake" was a lot of talk about getting to be her own person, finding herself, etc. Going straight from high school to a serious long term relationship, I can see that, and if she had left on that reasoning alone (without cheating), I could have forgiven.

I guess she assumes I'll wait around for her to get all of this out of her system and wait patiently for her to figure out what she wants. Wrong.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

rsersen said:


> I'd like to think that. That this is a phase, trying to make up for what she may see as lost time. Peppered in with the talk of "I'm not in love with you" and "this was a mistake" was a lot of talk about getting to be her own person, finding herself, etc. Going straight from high school to a serious long term relationship, I can see that, and if she had left on that reasoning alone (without cheating), I could have forgiven.
> 
> I guess she assumes I'll wait around for her to get all of this out of her system and wait patiently for her to figure out what she wants. Wrong.


Good. I made the mistake of thinking it was a "phase" and waited for my wife to get it out of her system and snap out of it. The boundaries kept getting pushed out further and further. 

Now we're separated (4 months - 3 months since she moved out) and she's still doing stuff like skipping her daughter's birthday to go clubbing. My wife is 48. She entered MLC probably when she turned 40 (although I didn't notice the drastic changes until maybe age 42 - 43). She's addicted to clubbing, botox, and any skin treatment that makes her look younger. She's very attractive but doesn't realize that lines can make you even MORE attractive - they give your face character. Character can be sexy.

But then, I guess if she had character, she wouldn't be a lying cheat... :rofl:


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

no kids?
i wouldnt expose her. i wouldnt talk to her. i wouldnt call her. i wouldnt text her.
i would simply see my divorce through and have nothing to do with her.
ever again.
you dont want to reconcile, i dont think.
its hard to overcome the fact that your "best friend" belittled and mocked you with her friends/OM. take it from me, i know, and it is hard if not impossible to look at this person the same.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

rsersen go have some fun this weekend.:smthumbup:


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

rsersen said:


> a lot of talk about getting to be her own person, finding herself, etc


this is standard fare for cheating women. my own ex-wife said the exact same sh1t. meanwhile she was farking a friend of mine.

don't let her fool you, it's all mind-games. just walk away. look at it this way: if you want to save your marriage, you have to be willing to end it. that way if she comes to her senses, great. if she doesn't, then you've already been making progress towards becoming your own man instead of spinning your wheels wasting time on her.


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## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

I wouldn't tell her, she will surely mess with your place now. She could go give all your stuff to Charity.


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## MsMittens (Jan 25, 2013)

I read every word of your post and I'm sorry for your pain--so sorry you went through this. If she could quickly take on another interest in that short time span, maybe she was not the friend you thought she was. Perhaps she was living a lie and took the first opportunity to get out of it. Prior to Oct. did she ever express unhappiness with you or the relationship? It just seems hard for me to believe that she would throw away an 8 year marriage for a guy she just met. If she was that unhappy and never loved you, she should have expressed that. A lot has happened to you in and 4 week period. Have you considered counseling? If not, you should because you need the support and need to talk some things through with a professional. Best wishes to you.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

MsMittens said:


> I read every word of your post and I'm sorry for your pain--so sorry you went through this. If she could quickly take on another interest in that short time span, maybe she was not the friend you thought she was. Perhaps she was living a lie and took the first opportunity to get out of it. Prior to Oct. did she ever express unhappiness with you or the relationship? It just seems hard for me to believe that she would throw away an 8 year marriage for a guy she just met. If she was that unhappy and never loved you, she should have expressed that. A lot has happened to you in and 4 week period. Have you considered counseling? If not, you should because you need the support and need to talk some things through with a professional. Best wishes to you.


We started counseling together shortly before she left (her idea, I agreed). But by the time the second session had come, she had already told me she was done, and was only going to "support" me, and try to help me find acceptance. I invited her to keep coming along, hoping that if the counselor asked the right questions, or gave us the right "homework" assignment, maybe something would trigger for her and she'd reconsider.

Our most recent session was last night. In our last email exchange a couple days before that, she asked if I still wanted her to go. I told her that I was going, and if she wanted to, she knew how to get there. But that she should go only if she wanted to, if she thought she'd get something out of it, but not to go just to try to support me through the pain she caused.

Not surprisingly, she wasn't there last night. So now it's IC. Which I know I need, and will continue going to.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Remember these Jedi mind trick are also for you, start working on the positive out look, be happy around her, fake it until you make it.

You will get to a point were your are actually happier now that you can move forward. What I found is this acting really helped by force my self to a better place, that and our chicks get wierded out that we are happier with out them.

The best revenge is to live life well. Before you know it that confidence and positive out look isn't forced any more but becomes natural as time passes.

Do not let her phucked up life define you. As she spirals down you my friend must sprial up to better and greater things.

So a little bit is showing her you can be happy with out her but most of it is for your self, that yes infact I can and will get through this with a smile on my face.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

rsersen: Your wife is messed up and broken. It is tough and painful, but ultimately it is better to move on. If your wife manages to fix herself - maybe you can re-build a brand new relationship and re-marry. But that's a long shot. Give yourself as many options as possible. As others have said - you're young so have your whole life in front of you. Just remember - it was your wife's problem - not yours.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Cedarman said:


> rsersen: Your wife is messed up and broken. It is tough and painful, but ultimately it is better to move on. If your wife manages to fix herself - maybe you can re-build a brand new relationship and re-marry. But that's a long shot. Give yourself as many options as possible. As others have said - you're young so have your whole life in front of you. Just remember - it was your wife's problem - not yours.


All the more reason to force a smile on yor face.....knowing that your moral compase is pointing in the right direction were your WW has no moral compase.


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## mad6r (Dec 31, 2012)

Sorry to hear you are going through this, it sounds awful familiar!
At least you dont have children to fight over, I have 2 boys who miss their mom and my stbxw is still in her fog. The lines about "Finding herself" are just her excuses for the EA. I too heard those same lines and thought if she did have her time off that it would help us get back together and have a stronger bond but I realize now that it was just a fanatasy. Our marriage counseling also ended after the 2nd session and she also wanted to just be there to support "me" This BS is just something they tell themselves just to feel better about what they have done to us.They have no remorse and they are only sorry they got caught!


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Sorry, didn't see this before my last post.
> 
> As hard as that is to swallow, it would make the most sense. She's always admitted being very insecure about herself, and self-conscious about her image.
> 
> ...


Don't play nice with this woman. Do the 180 and file making sure you site her adultery. Let's see how much she disagrees when it's there in black and white. I reckon you haven't heard the last of her. Make sure it's what you want when she comes crawling back.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You have no kids together.

She has no remorse.

She was never as into you as you were into her.

Mentally she's back in high school. One day in the future she will look back on this and know she wronged you, but that is not today and it does you no good now or then.

You should move on. Do the 180 to detach from her emotionally. Then file for the quickest easiest and cheapest divorce. Don't go after fault. Get away from her as fast as you can. Save your resources for someone that can love and be faithful to you.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Pablo said:


> Just to play devil's advocate, the older woman/younger man does make some sense in terms of sexual stamina.
> Since women only have to be receptors, and the guy has to get it up, an older woman does have greater sexual capacity than an older man.
> So, an in shape 60 year old woman is more capable of keeping up in that area with a 40 year old than vice versa.
> Tom, with his twenty seven year old girlfriend may find this out in a few years.


Pablo: True in some cases - maybe most. But I'm thinking more in terms of a 45 year old getting it up for a woman who all of a sudden looks her age at 60 (Botox just stops working at some point). Maybe there's a true love that exists and it won't be a problem. But you know the phrase "once a cheater..." Well the same goes for a POSOM. I just don't know if faithfulness is a dominant gene in married people who fool around with other married people. If I'm a 45 year old guy (probably just in MLC too) and I'm at a club with 30 something hotties vs a 60 year old cougar there's no question about who my preference would be.

Now if they had grown old together, that's a different story...


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

rsersen said:


> But by the time the second session had come, she had already told me she was done, and was only going to "support" me, and try to help me find acceptance.


I love it when they fake concern for you.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I love it when they fake concern for you.


The best part was the night she left, as she's packing her things, she tells me that I'm all wrong about the OM. That they had been talking about the marriage, and talking about her desire to leave (which is why she had been guarding her phone and deleting texts)...and that he had actually been on _my_ side, trying to persuade her to give me another chance.

If I hadn't been in so much anguish watching her walk out the door, I probably would have doubled over in laughter.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

He was on YOUR side? How presh! That changes.... Umm that changesss...my perception of that gal-o-yours.

From a cheat, to a cheat & an unimaginative liar.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

It might be true if she was expressing desire to be and stay with the OM after the separation and the OM was going "Aw hell no, I won't let this crazy b!tch cramp my style." so he would gently try to guide her back into the marriage. LOL.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> He was on YOUR side? How presh! That changes.... Umm that changesss...my perception of that gal-o-yours.
> 
> From a cheat, to a cheat & an unimaginative liar.


No kidding. Not sure how I forgot about that gem until now.

Going through all my evidence now, along with her trickle truths, trying to construct a timeline of the last two months for exposure (not sure when I'll do it, but at some point I know I have to drop the bomb). Just pisses me off more reading it again. Helps in a way, I've still been fighting an occasional urge to reach out.

My best friend (and he's been her friend for a long time, too) called her tonight, they hadn't talked since the separation. She was out, didn't talk long. Told him that she hadn't reached out to him yet about the "situation" because she didn't want to make things "awkward" between me and him. Said she'd call him back tomorrow though. We'll see.

I shouldn't care, but now I'm interested. I can't help but read that as "I'm still trashing him to everyone that will listen, but didn't want to involve you". Maybe she's afraid I'll drop this bomb at any minute, and she's trying to get out in front of it and crap on me first. Damn, I still don't know why I care. But it just makes me more angry.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You have every right to be angry. Let your anger play out in constructive ways. Hit the gym, take classes in the martial arts or take a dance class, stay busy. You'll come out of this a wiser and stronger man.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

rsersen said:


> The best part was the night she left, as she's packing her things, she tells me that I'm all wrong about the OM. That they had been talking about the marriage, and talking about her desire to leave (which is why she had been guarding her phone and deleting texts)...and that he had actually been on _my_ side, trying to persuade her to give me another chance.
> 
> If I hadn't been in so much anguish watching her walk out the door, I probably would have doubled over in laughter.


Of course the POSOM didn't want her to divorce you. He wanted to have the fun without having to foot the bill.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> It might be true if she was expressing desire to be and stay with the OM after the separation and the OM was going "Aw hell no, I won't let this crazy b!tch cramp my style." so he would gently try to guide her back into the marriage. LOL.


Lol of course he didn't want her. She's a cheater. Fun to bang but nobody wants a woman like that for anything serious or long term.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Just post her actions on face book. Let everyone know her actions before she try to do damage control. Show everyone her true character. Below is a message you could use and modify as you see fit. I'm not much of a writer but this is a start. Get some closure while exposing her actions. 

*Hello family, friends and acquaintances. I'm informing everyone that my "wife" and I will be getting a divorce. I have over time discovered that my "wife" has been cheating on me with her "just a friend" lover over a period of _________. 

As a trusting husband, It did not occur to me that a "girls night out" would cause so much trouble. I did not question her activities and expected her to respect myself and the marriage as wife or husband should.

She manipulated, lied, and betrayed that trust by going "out with her friends" to be willingly seduced by another man. It hurts to find out that my "wife" justified her behavior by trashing me as a person to all her friends who condoned her actions. She called me psycho and controlling because I began to suspect what was going on. How ironic is that???? 

As it turns out, she even began to lie about "going out with her friends" and directly went to her lovers house. When I confronted her with my evidence she doesn't feel she has cheated because we had issues. (issues that she never let me know about or I was aware of) She even tried to tell me that her lover was on my side to work out the marriage. ( Message to my soon to be ex wife: Of course he said that to you before you had sex to get into your pants. Then after the sex he also said it to get you out of his house)

I also want the truth to be told before my "wife" tries to deny what has happened and rewrite history to cover up her affair. Everything written above is true and I have a large amount of evidence to back it up.

I would like to inform everyone of my situation because I want you to learn form my experience. Be more mindful of your spouses actions. "Just a friend" could be something much more.*


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

rsersen said:


> The best part was the night she left, as she's packing her things, she tells me that I'm all wrong about the OM. That they had been talking about the marriage, and talking about her desire to leave (which is why she had been guarding her phone and deleting texts)...and that he had actually been on _my_ side, trying to persuade her to give me another chance.
> 
> If I hadn't been in so much anguish watching her walk out the door, I probably would have doubled over in laughter.


Haha thats funny. Like when my wife told me that when she and posom would talk sometimes that "he felt bad"...
And im like, "for real? Was that before yall fvcked? I bet he felt better afterwards".
Literally, thats what i said. 
Makes me want to fvcking vomit even typing that out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

If you are rrealy angry, then drop the bomb.

The woman calls you a loser and you still made excuses for her.
Look, I was watching the telly the other night, and you know what ??
It was about how men are producing 65% less sperm than than just 20 yrs. ago. Is it the food ?? Drink ??

Doesn't matter. What does matter is that it means we produce much much less testosterone. Hench, we are being unmanned mentally, and emotionally.

You are on the right track, but it's time you fought back and let the chips fall where they may.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

AlphaHalf said:


> Just post her actions on face book. Let everyone know her actions before she try to do damage control. Show everyone her true character. Below is a message you could use and modify as you see fit. I'm not much of a writer but this is a start. Get some closure while exposing her actions.
> 
> *Hello family, friends and acquaintances. I'm informing everyone that my "wife" and I will be getting a divorce. I have over time discovered that my "wife" has been cheating on me with her "just a friend" lover over a period of _________.
> 
> ...




Do a public exposure, only because she made you a psycho loser and trashed you infront of all these people behind your back. Maybe a little less emotional than the quoted post and more of facts kind of thing.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

AlphaHalf said:


> Just post her actions on face book. Let everyone know her actions before she try to do damage control. Show everyone her true character. Below is a message you could use and modify as you see fit. I'm not much of a writer but this is a start. Get some closure while exposing her actions.
> 
> *Hello family, friends and acquaintances. I'm informing everyone that my "wife" and I will be getting a divorce. I have over time discovered that my "wife" has been cheating on me with her "just a friend" lover over a period of _________.
> 
> ...



Thanks! I took this, modified it a little bit, and used it as basically a "cover letter", and afterwards constructed a timeline of the last two-three months detailing everything. The lies, nights out together, text transcripts, some photos, her confession. I have it pretty much ready to go.

I haven't posted it yet, I believe I'll wait a couple days. Before doing anything, I still want to see what reasoning she gives my best friend when/if she calls him again tonight. I can then slip those reasons/excuses into this document and refute them while exposing.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Just dont wait too long. 

Remember the words of Tsunetomo:

_When one has made a decision to kill a person, even if it will be very difficult to succeed by advancing straight ahead, it will not do to think about doing it in a long, roundabout way. One's heart may slacken, he may miss his chance, and by and large there will be no success. The Way of the Samurai is one of immediacy, and it is best to dash in headlong._

Now obviously, *I'm not saying you should kill her*, but you could use the same advice as it pertains to exposure. Waiting and prevarocating in the end do you no good. 

_There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to everything_


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

rsersen said:


> The best part was the night she left, as she's packing her things, she tells me that I'm all wrong about the OM. That they had been talking about the marriage, and talking about her desire to leave (which is why she had been guarding her phone and deleting texts)...and that he had actually been on _my_ side, trying to persuade her to give me another chance.
> 
> If I hadn't been in so much anguish watching her walk out the door, I probably would have doubled over in laughter.


He probably was telling her not to leave you. He just wants the sex, not the responsibility.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

rsersen said:


> he had actually been on _my_ side, trying to persuade her to give me another chance.


I know it sucks, but this is some early Karma right here. Your wife is blind. Seriously, if I was cheating and they started saying "hey, get back with your wife" I'd be running away. 

That sounds like someone in it for themselves, who doesn't want a serious relationship.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> When I was 27 my friends and I would look at mid-40's woman hanging at clubs with pity.


We still do...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Just dont wait too long.
> 
> Remember the words of Tsunetomo:
> 
> ...


Deep


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Thanks! I took this, modified it a little bit, and used it as basically a "cover letter", and afterwards constructed a timeline of the last two-three months detailing everything. The lies, nights out together, text transcripts, some photos, her confession. I have it pretty much ready to go.
> 
> I haven't posted it yet, I believe I'll wait a couple days. Before doing anything, I still want to see what reasoning she gives my best friend when/if she calls him again tonight. I can then slip those reasons/excuses into this document and refute them while exposing.


Go ahead and do it before the story gets "twisted" by her.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Expose now! You can always add to it. Do like politicians and celebrities do - get out in front of the story before someone else paints YOU in a bad light.

(Oh, by the way, did I mention that you should EXPOSE pronto?)


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Count, what exactly are you trying to say?


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

So, still keeping up the NC. Unfortunately I haven't been able to stop checking Facebook. I know I need to, hopefully one day soon I can muster the willpower and just block/delete everything.

I see that her and the original OM really are done, and she's already seeing a different guy. In a strange way, it makes me feel a little better. She's always had self-esteem and insecurity issues. She's not happy with herself - she admitted that much in the couple counseling sessions we went to before she stopped going.

I know now that while a lot factors contributed to her leaving, this was the biggest....and if it hadn't happened now, it would have sooner or later. She always complained about a lack of attention, and the argument had merit....but if she doesn't love herself, there's no amount of validation I could have given her that would have made her content. I would have simply worn myself out trying. I think the only reason she stayed as long as she did was because she knew I accepted her unconditionally...as soon as she started getting that same attention from another guy, she was out.

But that faded, and so will this guy. Sooner or later she will have to be alone/single, and I know she's terrified of that idea. Maybe that's when she'll come back and want to try again. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't still a little hopeful for that...but I also don't know if I'd take her back. And if that day never comes, then I'm okay with that too...which is more than I could have said a couple weeks ago.

I still have all my evidence typed up. I haven't exposed yet, I still go back and forth on whether to do it. I guess I'm afraid of coming off as the petty, bitter ex, slinging dirt while she has (seemingly) completely moved on and is living her life. At the same time, I'm not sure why/if I should care how her friends/family think of me for doing it (my friends/family certainly won't blame me). I don't care about any of her friends, and while I love her family, it's not like I'll be seeing or spending a lot of time with them in the future. Or maybe I'm just still scared to burn the bridge between me and her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

rsersen said:


> So, still keeping up the NC. Unfortunately I haven't been able to stop checking Facebook. I know I need to, hopefully one day soon I can muster the willpower and just block/delete everything.
> 
> I see that her and the original OM really are done, and she's already seeing a different guy. In a strange way, it makes me feel a little better. She's always had self-esteem and insecurity issues. She's not happy with herself - she admitted that much in the couple counseling sessions we went to before she stopped going.
> 
> ...


Is that a long write up? You can post it here for feedback if you want to.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Is that a long write up? You can post it here for feedback if you want to.


It's 11 pages in Word - but 10 of those pages are simply a list of the red flags that I saw/denied, and an evidence dump (text transcripts, pictures, etc). The intro to it is the same as AlphaHalf posted on page 5, I just modified a little bit of it.



> Dear family, friends and acquaintances. I'm informing everyone that my wife and I will be getting a divorce. I have, over time, discovered that my wife has been involved in an ongoing emotional/physical affair with a man claimed to be "just a friend" over the last two to three months.
> 
> As a trusting husband, It did not occur to me that a "girls night out" would cause so much trouble. I did not question her activities and expected her to respect myself and the marriage as a wife or husband should.
> 
> ...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yep a TL: DR version is always good


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm going to end up breaking NC. I can feel it, and I hate myself for not being strong enough. I almost did it last night, but finally decided to sleep on it - this morning, so far, is no better. The battle continues to rage in my head - one side longing just to talk and spend time together, even as friends....the other side reminding me of what she did and how she treated me. That latter side was winning for a while, but I'm having a hard time sustaining that anger and resentment.

I guess that's because I feel pretty sure now that the EA isn't why she left. It was just a springboard, because she was too cowardly to stand up on her own and walk out - terrified of being alone, she waited for the next boat to float by, and then jumped ship. I guess that's why I haven't exposed yet either, because even now that her and the OM fizzled out, she's still expressed no interest in coming back...so maybe there's no fog to snap her out of. Maybe she's just truly happier without me.

And if true, it hurts a little, but I'm okay with it. I know she still cares about me, and she still desperately wants to be friends. So do I. We've been best friends for half a decade before getting married, and even though it failed, why should I throw her out of my life completely? Even if the way she handled things was pretty crappy? 

I just hate to think that what might possibly be our last exchange to each other was so full of bitterness and bile, particularly from my end. Maybe if I had gone dark on more amicable terms, she would have reached out by now. I still wonder why she hasn't, but I don't think it's because she doesn't care....but because we're both too prideful to step forward first. Maybe I should be the bigger person.

I don't know what to do. I was feeling better, taking things one day at a time. Now it feels like I'm taking them a minute at a time. I have IC tonight. I suppose I'll see how I feel after that...and if I'm still in this spot, then maybe I should just reach out and be done with it.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Please see your IC before you do something you will regret. You say she desperately still wants to be friends. Call me crazy, but I don't keep friends that stab me in the back, and treat me abominably as she has treated you. 

You said "Maybe if I had gone dark on more amicable terms, she would have reached out by now.". Am I confused? I thought the point of going dark is to have NO Contact! 

You said "Maybe you should be the bigger person." Did you lie, gas-light or cheat on your wife? NO, you didn't. You are the bigger person, don't forget it. And please don't reach out to her. Expose, and then you need to move on. Start some new interests, and make a new best friend cause your last one wasn't really your friend at all.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You need to detach. Stay NC.
You are in withdrawal. You lost control nad it's "natural" to fight the urge to regain it. It shall pass.
Get busy, body and heart. Be kind to you.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Guess I needed that 2x4. Thanks guys. Did not break NC. Counseling went well, and pretty much re-affirmed that I'm doing the right thing, as hard as it may be.

Now, to the next question - expose, or not to expose? I keep going back and forth.

Key facts/beliefs here

- Her and the OM no longer have romantic feelings towards each other, and really are "just friends" now. This was confirmed while snooping, although the EA/PA still did go on for two months.

- Believe he was simply an exit affair, because she lacked the courage to walk out on her own without a potential landing spot. Through FB I have a reasonable suspicion that a second OM has come into the picture since then (although now that we're separated, I'm not sure he truly counts as an OM). 

- She seems truly excited to be independent and is moving into her own place with a different girlfriend next month. She's still a coward and a cheat, but at the core of it I'm pretty sure she wants to be her own person, make up for lost time, simply not be married, etc. I don't know if there is any fog to knock her out of, although I could be wrong. And if there is, two weeks of NC have not put any kind of dent into it.

- During the separation she has trashed me behind my back to some of her friends, and the OM. Not pinning the failure of the marriage on me (i.e. he hit me, had a terrible temper, etc), but simply expressing annoyance and contempt for me. I have no idea what she has been telling people about why we split, as I have not talked to her family or any of her friends since it happened. Given her attitude towards me (at least when talking to other people), I'd imagine she's not making herself the bad guy though.

- Waiting so long now, I run the risk of coming across as the petty, vindictive ex. She's on FB posting pictures/posts about her new place, being out with friends, etc, and I'll be trashing her to everyone she knows. On the other hand, I guess I don't really care. I don't care what her friends think. I would not want to upset her family, but if I have to, so be it (not like I'd be seeing much of them in the future anyway). Even most of our "mutual" friends have seemingly turned out to really be her friends, as again, none of them have reached to me since splitting.

- Her biggest fault (or at least one of them) is caring too much what other people think of her. I know that right now she is terrified of the idea that I will expose, or am already going around exposing slowly from person to person. I know an exposure will normally (temporarily) push a WW away anyway, but in this case it may cause a lot more damage, and burn any potential bridges. The relationship bridge, I'm okay with burning...the friendship bridge, I still don't know. I'd like to think we could get back there one day, way in the future. This might hurt that cause.

- The potential legal recourse, although this is the least of my concerns. The evidence I have was more than likely obtained illegally. If she or a family member are that distraught over it, they may want to threaten/pursue it, although I kind of doubt it. Even if they did, I would think the authorities have more important things to prosecute than a husband exposing his wife's affair. I wouldn't plan on leaving the FB post up forever anyway - just 24-48 hours for everyone to see, then remove it.


I suppose the biggest question is "what do you hope to gain by doing it", and my answers would be 1) to show her that actions have consequences, and 2) since she's still not acknowledging that what she did counts as an EA/cheating, hopefully someone else will talk sense into her. As I said, if I could actually get some remorse from her, I'd feel much better about all of this.

So....go? Or no go?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Let it go.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Expose far and wide my friend. You'll feel so much better.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Why would you protect her actions and the lies? Expose the truth and move on. All it takes is a copy, paste then a click of a submit button. You've should of sent it long ago.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If you don't expose it's okay. What's done is done & since she has already immunized herself against exposure, you will probabably not be believed. The time for exposure is passed.

But for your own sake, never again speak to this woman except as you would a stranger. Because she's no more than a dangerous stranger. You best believe that whatever you tell her now or in the future will be twisted and used aganst you to justify her actions and preserve her "good girl" image. 

Her image is very important to her. You are not. She will continue to percieve you as a threat to her image so be wary of anything you say to her.

That's why it's for the best to just forget about her and avoid speaking to her when you can.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Did it. We'll see what the fallout is. You're right though - I feel better. At least right now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You were friend zoned, then she dated and married you, the she began dating the OM. 

She frankly sounds like she was never committed to the marriage. All it took was a trashy single friend and some being hit on and she was lying and cheating.

She not much of a catch at all. A man deserves a woman far better than her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hold on....you're going on a magic carpet ride. 

Queue appropriate soundtrack.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I've been following your thread and figured now would be time for another 2x4. I'm good with those from my days as a contractor :smthumbup:


rsersen said:


> Guess I needed that 2x4. Thanks guys. Did not break NC. Counseling went well, and pretty much re-affirmed that I'm doing the right thing, as hard as it may be.
> 
> Now, to the next question - expose, or not to expose? I keep going back and forth.
> *Shouldn't be a question, you always expose for your own sanity. If you don't expose, you're always wondering "do they know, does he know, does she know". Put it out there and be done with the mystery.*
> ...


Do I need to answer?


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

HAHA should've kept reading.

GOOD FOR YOU MAN. Seriously don't you feel your balls in your pants a bit more. Don't be scared of her reaction. Wait for it and ENJOY IT!!!!


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> You were friend zoned, then she dated and married you, the she began dating the OM.
> 
> She frankly sounds like she was never committed to the marriage. All it took was a trashy single friend and some being hit on and she was lying and cheating.
> 
> She not much of a catch at all. A man deserves a woman far better than her.


Yes, I hadn't thought of it from that angle until coming here, and the same was mentioned earlier in thread - but I think you're right.

As I've said, she's always been very insecure about herself/image/whatever. I think when we got together, she saw me as someone who had always loved her anyway, and figured I always would. Honestly, being so long ago, I can't even remember if she had recently gotten out of a relationship before we hooked back up. I wanna say that she had - if so, that's a red flag I missed.

After getting married, she put on a lot of weight. Was even more unhappy with herself as a result. I tried constantly to flatter her, and make it known that I loved her and found her beautiful no matter what she looked like. She always waved these off as insincere, "I know you're lying", etc. Boy, does it get tiring trying to give compliments to someone who won't accept them. I kept it up anyway. And of course she wasn't getting hit on when out at the bars, so I had no competition. 

Over the last several months, she's lost over 70 pounds, and dropped back down to pre-wedding weight. Give her credit, she did it with nothing but willpower, diet, and exercise. I'm sure it boosted her self-esteem, as it should have. That, coupled with the new attention from guys, and I was doomed.

Not that I'm dismissing my own faults or contributions to the failed marriage. I own those mistakes - after all, there's very rarely a clear cut "good guy" and "bad guy". But it seems like I was fighting a losing battle from the start.




I'm still feeling good about exposing. Even if it nets me nothing except some angry in-laws, I'm glad I did it. Because, regardless of the 9,000 different reasons she's thrown at me for leaving (except the OM, she'll continue to swear that he wasn't it), one of two things is true:

1) The OM is not why she left, and she truly was unhappy for a long time. That means she was still too cowardly to stand up on her own and leave...she had to wait for the right time to jump off the sinking ship, leaving me to drown.

2) The OM is the reason she left, and she's lying to everyone, and maybe even herself.

Whatever option it is, both show a total lack of respect for myself, our marriage, or the vows she took. Therefore I see no reason to respect her desire to keep all of this a secret.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If the OM is the reason or not, it's still true that she chose to betray and hurt you.

I think you wife has convinced herself that she settled for you. She's now thinking that she's thin and has a second chance to find the guy she wants. Unfortunately she doesn't want the guy who wants her, she's pursuing a fantasy that doesn't exist. 

I've known people like her, she'll spend her life treating people who like her like trash,while always pursuing those who treat her badly. This often happens with people with low self esteem. They don't value those who love the because they view anyone who would love them as a looser because the project their own self loathing and doubt onto the other person.

The only way to be worthy of her is to see her in a bad light and treat her as being or worthless like she sees herself.

Pretty much a perfect set up for failure and for her getting into an abusive relationship. 

You may have turned things around earlier if instead of pursuing and being nice, you had gotten nasty and exposed.

My advice to you is to truly move on. You deserve to be someone's Plan A, and with her you'll never be more than plan b.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

The first people I heard back from after exposing were her brother and his fiance. Of all the people, I was most worried about what their reactions would be, because I've always been so close to them.

I was shocked. They didn't go so far as to "pick a side", and I told them that I didn't want them to, it wasn't the intention....but they were so supportive, and were upset with her, and felt betrayed themselves because she _had_ been painting a terrible picture to them, and making things out to be entirely my fault. It was incredible, and I'm still a little misty eyed over it. I'm so glad I put it all out there.

I'm still not sure what the reaction from her mother, or other friends will be (or my wife's reaction herself). Maybe they'll beat her over the head as well - I'm not saying I'd pursue an R at this point (I'm not even going to think about it unless it becomes a reality, but I most likely would not), but I'd at least like some remorse from her, so that I can forgive and get some closure. But even if everyone else lashes out against me over it, having those guys' support makes it all worth it. And of course, the support of everyone here at TAM. Thank you, everybody.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

She maybe more embarrassed and ashamed then remorseful. It may very well turn into anger towards you for telling the TRUTH.

The most important thing is that your side of the story is told. People may still support her but I'm sure in the back of there minds they know some amount of truth to what you posted. Also they may know of additional information that support those statements but didn't piece it together until they heard your side. 

Either way the truth is not hidden and now you can move on and find a better partner. Best Wishes.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

The outpouring of support today has been pretty amazing. It wasn't my goal when I posted it, but it sure is a nice side effect, and it's the emotional pick-up I needed. But yes, most importantly, the truth has been told, and I can start moving on.

A couple hours ago posW sent a text simply saying "call me". I haven't dignified it with any kind of response. It's a little offputting that she things she can still just snap her fingers and I'll drop everything to see what she wants. If she has something to say about it, she knows my number, and I'll hear her out for as long as I can stomach. Otherwise, I have nothing to say to her.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What kind of evidence of her affair did you post, if any?


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> What kind of evidence of her affair did you post, if any?


Mainly text transcripts - numbers and names hidden. Some photos from her phone, of their nights out together - OM's face blurred. Not that I owe the POS any privacy, but since I'm sure I'm tip-toeing the legal line as it is, I'd rather take precautions where I can.

Also, the details of her own confession to me the night she came clean (or more likely, trickle truthed). It was a very matter-of-fact presentation, no emotion in it. Made it clear that the exposure was not a matter of personal vengeance or bitterness. Posted it so that it was only visible to a very select group of individuals (my family, hers, my closest friends, her closest, and our closest mutual friends). I intend to leave it up for a day or two to let those people get a chance to see it, then take it down.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Fantastic job on that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Great job rsersen,

Truth should always be told. Healing can now begin.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's great, now go out with those friends and have some fun. It sounds like she is getting slammed pretty good right now, too effing bad.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Mainly text transcripts - numbers and names hidden. Some photos from her phone, of their nights out together - *OM's face blurred. Not that I owe the POS any privacy, but since I'm sure I'm tip-toeing the legal line as it is, I'd rather take precautions where I can.*


Why blur the photos? You haven't crossed any legal lines whatsoever. The truth is the truth. I would be more inclined to paste his nasty assed face all over the place for her family and friends to see so that can get a good glimpse of the homewrecker that your WW will soon be introducing into her life.

These are consequences of her actions. You will have done nothing wrong and nothing illegal by posting this guy's full face for everyone to see. There's no drawback to it....unless, of course, the truth is now against the law. The day that happens, I'm leaving the planet.

Fvck it up good. Blow it up good. Balls to the wall or not at all is my mantra.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

rsersen

Can I give you some advice.

Ignore her! Go dark. Block her from your FB.

And move on.

She is not your friend. She never was. Because friends do not lie or cheat.

So why on earth would you ever want to be friends with a little girl like that.

She could have said how unhappy she was. She could have moved on and divorced you while holding head high.

But she did not do that. She made you feel like you are the crazy, controlling one.

So ignore her. 

And heal. Focus on you. 

And go find a real woman that has a good self image of her self and high self esteem.

Because you deserve that.

HM64


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Tell me, rsersen, was the wedding a huge, church-catered affair? With all of her "envious" GFs in attendance?

If so, it sounds like the classic situation:

She LOVED being a bride, but had no intention of continuing as a wife.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

rsersen said:


> *I guess I should add that I know what I have to do. Lawyer up,* and serve her. I'm still not sure if I want to pursue grounds of adultery. In my state, I only need enough circumstantial evidence to prove a desire and an opportunity to have intercourse. I think I have that. But I'm not sure if it's worth the inevitable extra money.
> 
> We have no kids. No property (apartment lease is up in March, she's moving into a new place with a room mate, I'm settling with my parents while I regroup and figure out where I want to go). Joint account is already closed (we both took our pieces of it beforehand). It should be a simple divorce if I go with no-fault, but I still hate the idea of just letting her get away with all of this with no consequences. Then again, what does filing with fault really do other than some public shame (I still haven't exposed anything to anyone besides my own immediate family, because I needed someone to talk to).
> 
> I guess a small part of me still wants to believe she's in the fog. That if she gets served at work, and knows I'm serious, maybe she'll have second thoughts about all of this. I guess that's impossible as long as she doesn't think she did anything wrong. I don't know why I have that hope - I still don't think I could take her back, but I guess I at least want to see her try to make an effort.


^^ THIS

Also this sounds extremely random so i am sorry.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

rsersen-caught your thread from ReGroup.....if she opened up new bank accounts you can bet the farm she was dishing. My now ex was insecure but that is more an internal problem. Why? You showered her with compliments but they fell on deaf ears. But other guys.....oh she ate that up like a Christmas ham. In my case, we had no children, she had one from 1st M and I raised him.

He is now a thug and she went from a secure life to renting a studio apt. near a college campus by the week. When we met yesterday for her to get the last of her things out of my house (i got everything....plus her debt) she was broken out all around her mouth....like razor bumps when guys start shaving regular. She said her Dr. said it was nerves and may be shingles. LOL And she was the one who broke up the M. I grinned and blew it off. 

You will come out of this a better person.....my two earlier threads prove it. I was where you are. I made it and so will you. She pulled the "let's be friends" card. Well I am in a relationship with a really great gal and she is sitting in a cramped apt....chain smoking.....eating high fat food with onset of diabetis......high blood pressure.....stress. Yeah we can be friends......if you want to watch someone else enjoy what you could have....be my guest. 

In almost all cases, the W does come back around......they key is not to wait. Get on with your life. What will hurt her more........her seeing you happy without her or turning her away? She won the battle but you won the war. Hope this helps you in some way. Hang in there. 

180 / NC / let her go / take high ground-let her drown


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Saw your update on the other site. So she knew what you were posting and she still tried to manipulate you with false confessions. (To TAMmers, she found he was posting on reddit and changed her story accordingly)

Don't give her the final meeting. She probably found out you are posting here too through a keylogger. Have your OS re-imaged just in case.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Agree..........snake can't bite if head is cut off


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

great job on exposure!... surely people will not be on the cheaters side... also, dont break the NC, you do not need her appology for forgiveness to move on. 

Forgiveness is an action YOU must undertake yourself!! Forgive her for her actions, and move on with your life. 

Exposure should be your statement of letting her go. Informing all friends/family of what happened and move on. Best of luck and I am sure your future will be more bright without her!


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