# Cyber Cheater



## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Here is my situation...I have been with my husband for 4 and a half years. We have been married for 6 months. Except what I will explain below, we have a marriage and relationship people envy. We have 6 kids, 3 are his and 3 are mine. Only 2 still live at home. I am a fulltime student right now and he works full time. We have no financial problems or issues. We dont fight about money at all. We are involved in our community and in our church. We do a lot of things together alone and with the family. We both have the same values and expectations for our children. He is a wonderful romantic....remembers all the special days...sends me emails, texts and voice messages all the time just to tell me he loves me or is thinking of me. We have a weekly date night where we discuss household issues and even disagreements we have. We are really good at communicating and at least as far as I can see, we work things pretty well. Of course we have had blow up fights once in awhile, but not often, and they always get worked out mutually. 
Problem....about a year ago, I discovered a chat log on his computer while looking for a school file. It was a very intimate chat history that was about 3 months long! I recognized the girl as one of his facebook friends. In the chats he NEVER put me down or said anything bad about me at all....he even said he was happy in the relationship. However he was also telling her how much he cared about her, and there were several references to "if we ever meet..." I confronted him about it immediately. He was for sure embarassed about it but seemed like he didnt really want to discuss it at all...almost blew it off as he was bored because I was always doing homework and studying and he needed stimulation. He called it a game and that she didnt mean anything to him and he had no problem cutting it off and deleting her as a friend. After that it took me awhile to fully trust him again. Everytime he logged on the computer I wondered who he was chatting with. I finally got over that...we got married...life was awesome...I couldnt ask for a more devoted man....
Fast foward to now....we have a joint yahoo account. I dont log onto it much, but the other day I did...I looked for a conversation I had with my sister and low and behold was berrated with a million conversations that he has been having with another woman. As I read, I saw how the relationship progressed...first with flirting, then sexual explicit inuendos..then to planning to meet... I didnt confront him because I am in the middle of finals and I need my head straight. Last night, I saw she sent a message with her phone number saying it would be better to text. When I looked through the conversantions..they had all been deleted!

I dont know what to do....I dont think he would jeopardize our relationship for some chick he met online...but I know I need to confront...with the holidays this makes it very difficult...what should I do?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

1st off, i'm sorry you are here, but I'm glad you found TAM. There is good advice to be had here. Some of it's hard. But try as best you can to make it your own. 

Your story has a lot in common with my own.

Your husband is already jepordizing the relationship by flirting and sexual banter with this women. You caught him once, he sucessfully rugswept it and it's happend again. 

You need to carefully plan your confrontation. The timing of the holidays is not a significant obstacle. In fact, they may play to your advantage. If you have solid enough proof, you can expose him to family, and he will need to explain himself face to face. It will make for akward family time for him. I made a mistake in that I only disclosed my wifes affair to our pastor. So, I have very few shoulders I can cry on, and I did a fair bit of crying in the months after Dday.

I suggest completing your detective work prior to confronting. Get phone records, copies of all those chat records. Make copies, save a set in a safe place. Keylog the computer, put spyware on his phone if you can. Get all the info you can now, becuase after you confront he will clean up behind himself and destroy every shred of evidence he can find.

I confronted too early, and I'm going to live with doubts as to weather or not I got full disclosure. Just because you only find evidency of a cyber affair, doesn't mean there isn't a physical one going on. I had enough evidence to show my wife was having a full blown cybersex affair. So, that's all she would admit to. As she lied to me about the affair, why should I believe the extent of it? The point is, have as much evidence as you possible can, and don't show it to him. Just let him know you know, but not how. It will keep him off balance and you may get some new info. It will also be more difficult for him to fabricate a cover story that fits the facts you have if he doesn't know what you have.

Don't try to assure him you will work on reconciling during your confrontation. I made that mistake. Its making reconciling with my WW more painful as I feel like I'm the one paying the price for her mistake. Make sure he knows this is divorce material. If he asks you if the marriage is over, let him know that depends on him. If I could roll back time, I would have told her to leave, or at least tell her to not sleep in the marital bed with me. I was full of resentment and pain, and just stuffed it all inside in hopes of a quick reconcilliation. 

Reconciling is not easy. It's painful. Get good help. A therapist for you and another for marriage counseling. Make it a requirement if he wants to reconcile. A good marriage counselor will help keep the painful conversations productive. 

Read the newbie links, there is excellent material thier regarding how to confront. Don't downplay the cyber aspect. That is energy that could have gone to your relationship that he pissed away. he was being decietful. And plenty of physical affairs have been born from cyber flings. The lying to me was the worst part. She lied again and again directly to my face, even though I had absolute proof and was giving her a chance to come clean with assurances that I wouldn't leave her if she did. It wasn't until I quoted (from memory) one of her cybersex sessions that she finally confessed. It's been 6 months, and I still have very little trust in my wife.

If you can get all your evidence gathering done, confront before the holidays. I predict you will get lots of good advice. Read it all, absorb what you can and take control. You can do this.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

Great adivce Acoa! I am in a similar situation to both of you. That thread title is a trigger. I have decided to install another keylogger on H's comp (first one sucked). The only reason I'm not already gone is because there are kids. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There will be no more second chances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Thank you for your advice. Here is what makes confrontation difficult at this time...
The 2 kids living at home are his youngest daughters. They have not seen their mother for over 2 years...and have not talked to her in over 6 months. She moved out of state and has no desire to be in their lives. It has been a difficult road for them. When I first moved in, their biggest fear is that I would leave them too. 
The other thing that makes it difficult is that because I am in school and in a rigorous program that doesnt allow me to work full time, he is my financial support. I moved into his house. Yes, I still have my own bank account from before we got together, something he knows about and does not question or care about. I receive a minimal amount from back child support from my ex and a small amount of unemployment which will be cut off in a couple weeks. There is not a significant balance in that account for me to be able to support myself if I had to move out. I wouldnt expect him to move because of the kids. 
The reason I dont want to confront until after the holidays is because I dont want there to be tension for the kids. I dont want this to be in their memory bank for years to come. 
As far as evidence....before he deleted all the posts, I copied all of them to a word doc and saved them. I have her phone number, name etc... I know the town she lives in..and I know she is married. Through the chats though it seems that she has an open marriage. She at first seemed hesitant to "meet" and chat but then mentioned that her husband would be ok with it if he met him first. Apparently her husband has sexual "issues" so allows her to "play"? This scares me because obviously she has done this before. 
As far as gathering more evidence...I cant get phone records...I joined his plan when we got together and he has all the passwords. He would share them with me if I asked, but now with this going on, I think it would tip him off. The paper bill that is sent to the house doesnt list phone numbers, and I am sure that he doesnt "call" her, he is more of a texter. I dont want to put any spyware on his phone, it would be next to impossible for me to even get his phone without him knowing unless I did it while he slept. I could definately keylog his laptop, but he is VERY computer savvy..more so than I, and I honestly dont know how to do it without him knowing.
I wont make the mistake of letting him believe that I am going to reconcile, I'm not saying I wont reconcile, but I too made that mistake the first time. My exact first words were "This relationship is worth saving, and I'm ready to fight for it" I realize now that was a huge mistake! He was let off the hook. He knew he got away with it with minimal pain. And because I do believe that this is some kind of addiction, he had no problem letting that girl go and moving on to another. I dont think there has been a physical affair only because we are so in tune with where each other is at that he literally would have to skip work to do it. I not only know where he is all the time, but I know and am friends with the people he is with. There is never a "gonna meet the guys for a drink" It's always, "hey wanna meet so and so for a drink with me tonight?" He even asks me to go to the store with him. He bowls on thursday nights, but I have a habit of dropping in unannounced. We have mutual friends on the league and he is always happy when I show up. So there would be no going bowling but not really going bowling. He has a church class on Mondays. I have a church class every other Monday. He honestly would never have an opportunity there because the class is only an hour long and he is never late. The pastor mentioned last week that he was impressed that he had only missed one class (he was sick and home with me) Once in awhile he has a "date night" with a daughter or two, again, nothing suspicious. 
I have seriously tried to think of times that he was away that I could be suspicious about and I cannot think of one. 
For him to even try to do something with this woman would mean he would have to go outside of how he does things now. 
The other thing that is different...In my last marriage, my husband was cheating on me and it made him very suspicious of the things I did. He wanted to know where I was all the time, who I was talking to on the phone, yada yada... This time around...he is very uncontrolling and very trusting. He doesnt question me or get jealous at anything! Ironically, in one of his chats on the previous occasion, the woman asked him if he thought I would do the same thing he was doing and he said, "no, she would never do that"
Sorry for the ramble...maybe I'm just trying to sort this all out in my head. I'm not downplaying the cheating...I believe it is cheating, whether there was physical or not..I guess the thing that really bothers me is the deception. The fact that he could do this knowing that if I found out it would be hell. Why would he jeopardize our family and his reputation for something like this. Why didn't he respect me enough to NOT do this? And why did was he so stupid using our joint account to carry this on??


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

So maybe just lay low finish your program and gather evidence...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Confused2much,
I would very much to hear how it happens? Are you happily married as well? I am interested in what triggers this behavior.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Ldyvenus,
My program starts in January and goes for 3 years! I'm not sure I can hold out that long...but trust me I thought about it...It would cripple him if he put me through school then I take all that bank and leave. Maybe then he would see some things just arent worth the risk!


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Confused2much said:


> I'm married to a really nice man. A trigger could be anything, mostly it's due to a fight with my husband. I feel angry, fearful and rejected. I feel like I'm dying and my mind will default to trying to do something harmful to myself. So I look for a distraction. Something that will get the chemicals in my brain going that will give me pleasured relief. I don't want to ruin my marriage so I figure online stuff isn't harmful. It's all fantasy. Most people lie or only say sort of the truth. The internet is more pretend than real. I feel as if I'm playing a game, escaping from the tragedies of life and not hurting anyone.


Would you ever think about taking it offline and actually doing the physical deed? I dont think my husbands is triggered by arguements. The chat log shows that he was chatting while we were out having fun...on days when he was home with me for lunch and we were in pleasant conversations. He once chatted to her about the night before with me and how much fun we had at a housewarming party. He said "i wish you could meet her, you would love her" but in the same chat when she asked what I would say about her, he replied "do I have to tell her, lol" and when she asked if he was serious about meeting he said "well i wouldnt walk away from it, lol" But a couple days ago she chatted that she was at a store in our town, he was sitting here at the time and so easily could have told me he needed to run to the store, but he chatted back to her that he wasnt in town, "too bad, I'm not here..had to run out of town, my loss...I really wanted to kiss you"


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Confused2much said:


> I think at this point your husband is in an emotional affair and he's having a good time. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. What I describe before is about what makes people "look" for these cyber things. You might have been fighting when he started looking or maybe he was going through something emotional that didn't have anything to do with you. Happy well-adjusted people don't go online looking for sexual pleasure. Right now your husband is in the mist of an affair and he's not ready to take it to the real world. But if starts Skyping with the woman and he finds her very attractive he might.


Hmmm...I never thought about when it started...or how. He has started texting..or so I think..she did send her phone number and I know they are no longer chatting, at least not on that profile. As far as attraction, there was a picture of her on the profile and to be frank and honest, I cannot see the attraction. I may get in trouble for saying this...but I am in my mid forties and look no older than 30. I take very good care of myself...exercise, eat right..yada yada.. I turn heads...and I am not in anyway trying to pat myself on the back but I take pride in looking good and being healthy. One of the things he praises me for is that I never leave the house looking "dumpy" However, this girl would be in the "dumpy" category...nothing like what he is normally attracted to, which confuses me...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have to be very seriously worried that you've only been married for 6 mos. and your H is cheating like this after having been caught once before. He sounds very practiced at it.

Please read around on other threads about EA's going to PA's. You will see much of the same pattern to the behavior & you could save yourself some time and grief by understanding it.

For example, it's actually strangely common for people to have very attractive spouses at home and have an A with someone less physically attractive. It's also common for the BS to believe that the cheater has no opportunity to meet up with an AP, but they usually manage to do it. Most common is that they lie and lie some more.

You already have a fair amount of evidence that your H is hiding this very inappropriate relationship; if you haven't already, you should read Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends.'And more evidence would be good to clarify everything, especially how you want to proceed. Ultimately, you need to confront.

If you stay on here and decide you want to evidence gather, people will advise.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

blindedbylove said:


> It would cripple him if he put me through school then I take all that bank and leave.


But he is crippling you right now with this behavior.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Please read my story (link in my sig). My husband is a former cyber cheater who went physical. He is also a sex addict.

He started out thinking it was 'just' a distraction from our crappy marriage too, and thinking that he would indulge himself 'just this once' and that would be it. But over 9 or 10 months it got to the point he was paying 'models' he met on meet up sites and chat sites for meet ups and trying to plan others. He had himself plastered all over the internet, advertising for sex. He was emotionally involved with at least two online personas that ended up not even being real who duped him out of thousands of dollars. Which if you knew him you would think was impossible - this man is so cheap he won't even give the kids a few cents at the store if they're short.

You need to find out EXACTLY what he is doing. That means a keylogger and phone spyware. I never did either of those and to this day only have his word about what he did. That bothered me for a very long time after we decided to R.

And you are right - you let him off WAY too easy the first time. If you DO decide to R this time, he has to become an open book to you, and he has to prove to you every day for years that he isn't acting out again. He MUST do those things, or R will never work. If he isn't willing to do those things for you, he isn't worth your time and energy.

That's why I am glad I kicked my husband out the day I found out. I was DONE, and he knew it. He had to grovel and beg and prove he was worth my time before I even considered trying R.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Disable your phone - remove it's battery. Then pick up his phone and tell him you have to call (some relative, school chum, pastor - whoever) ask for his pw. 

May work. Worth a try.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Actually he wasn't dying for sexual gratification. We still had regular sex. He was looking for an emotional connection, which to him ended up equating to sex. His history is that when he feels 'isolated and alone' (his words) he turns to sex. That's the addict in him. It's like some people turn to alcohol or drugs to help them feel better.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your situation is similar to what I’ve been through. This is becoming a very common situation.


blindedbylove said:


> Thank you for your advice. Here is what makes confrontation difficult at this time...
> The 2 kids living at home are his youngest daughters. They have not seen their mother for over 2 years...and have not talked to her in over 6 months. She moved out of state and has no desire to be in their lives. It has been a difficult road for them. When I first moved in, their biggest fear is that I would leave them too.


I had this same issue. In 2000 I married a man with two children D10 and S12. My son was 10. IN 2002 I discovered that he was doing what your husband is doing with several women and that he had even met a few for flings. He was apparently doing this the entire 1.5 years we were engaged. 

His children had also been abandoned by their mother and I had promised them that I would never leave them. I stayed with him and tried to recover the marriage. That worked for about 3 years. Then he retreated into his cyber world and has never come out.
I stayed with him until his children were out of high school. I got a divorced in March 2012. I kept my promise to his children. Would I do it again? Probably. But I would draw a much harder line with him and had the divorce ready the day my step daughter graduated from high school.

By the way his children tell me that I’m the only parent who ever stuck by them (not even their father did really). They are in their mid 20’s now, always here. They are my children as much as my son is.


blindedbylove said:


> The other thing that makes it difficult is that because I am in school and in a rigorous program that doesnt allow me to work full time, he is my financial support. I moved into his house.


How much longer is your schooling? Will it increase the income you earn when you go back to work?


blindedbylove said:


> Yes, I still have my own bank account from before we got together, something he knows about and does not question or care about. I receive a minimal amount from back child support from my ex and a small amount of unemployment which will be cut off in a couple weeks. There is not a significant balance in that account for me to be able to support myself if I had to move out.


Do the two of you have joint accounts as well?


blindedbylove said:


> As far as evidence....before he deleted all the posts, I copied all of them to a word doc and saved them. I have her phone number, name etc... I know the town she lives in..and I know she is married. Through the chats though it seems that she has an open marriage. She at first seemed hesitant to "meet" and chat but then mentioned that her husband would be ok with it if he met him first. Apparently her husband has sexual "issues" so allows her to "play"? This scares me because obviously she has done this before.


See if you can find the info to contact her husband. She could be lying up a storm.

Does she seem to know that he is married? What has he told her?


blindedbylove said:


> As far as gathering more evidence...I cant get phone records...I joined his plan when we got together and he has all the passwords.


Put a keylogger on the computer. You will get all of the passwords and then you can check. 

You have allowed yourself to get into a very vulnerable position by not even having access to your financial info. Yes it’s your info as well.


blindedbylove said:


> He would share them with me if I asked, but now with this going on, I think it would tip him off. The paper bill that is sent to the house doesnt list phone numbers, and I am sure that he doesnt "call" her, he is more of a texter. I dont want to put any spyware on his phone, it would be next to impossible for me to even get his phone without him knowing unless I did it while he slept. I could definately keylog his laptop, but he is VERY computer savvy..more so than I, and I honestly dont know how to do it without him knowing.


Check your PMs


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blindedbylove said:


> Hmmm...I never thought about when it started...or how. He has started texting..or so I think..she did send her phone number and I know they are no longer chatting, at least not on that profile. As far as attraction, there was a picture of her on the profile and to be frank and honest, I cannot see the attraction. I may get in trouble for saying this...but I am in my mid forties and look no older than 30. I take very good care of myself...exercise, eat right..yada yada.. I turn heads...and I am not in anyway trying to pat myself on the back but I take pride in looking good and being healthy. One of the things he praises me for is that I never leave the house looking "dumpy" However, this girl would be in the "dumpy" category...nothing like what he is normally attracted to, which confuses me...


How's your sex life with him?


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> He started out thinking it was 'just' a distraction from our crappy marriage


This is what pisses me off. There are two people in a marriage and for some reason these WS think it's easier to find a distraction, instead of trying to work on whatever was wrong in the first place. issed:


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> How's your sex life with him?


Our sex life is amazing. Of course this has put a damper on how I feel about sex with him, but honestly, very active, very loving and we have never felt like one was pushing the other. It really seems to me like he is two people...one that loves his wife and his family, then one that just needs this outlet. When I look back at the times and days of the chats, there is no real pattern compared to our sex life or anything. It isnt like he felt he wasnt "getting it" from me so he did it.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Your situation is similar to what I’ve been through. This is becoming a very common situation.
> 
> I had this same issue. In 2000 I married a man with two children D10 and S12. My son was 10. IN 2002 I discovered that he was doing what your husband is doing with several women and that he had even met a few for flings. He was apparently doing this the entire 1.5 years we were engaged.
> 
> ...


I honestly am thinking about waiting for the kids to be out of school. It would mean 6 more years though. Here are the answers to your questions...
My schooling is for another 3 years. It will increase my/our income very significantly, at least doubling it. I don't have any dependant kids at home anymore, my youngest is 20. At home we only have his 2, ages 17 and 12.

We have a joint savings and a joint checking. He has no accounts on his own and I have the one I have kept since before we met. I have been through divorce before and the one thing I always wanted to maintain is an account that I had control over. I got completely wiped out by my last husband...he took everything before I even knew what was happening. And while my WS does know about this account, he has never even requested info about it. He calls it my fun money account. Anything I buy with it is unquestioned.
I do have access to all financial accounts. I have the internet passwords for them and I have joint ownership in them. The only things I dont have passwords for are the phone account. And like I said, he would give it to me but it would tip him off.

The OW that he is chatting with does know about me. Knows he is married...they once chatted and she asked if he was happily married and he said yes, are you? And she said yes. She asked him what I would think about them chatting/meeting and he said "do i have to tell her, lol" He has never said anything negative about me or our relationship. Never complains about our sex life or marriage at all. Once she mentioned how she thought I looked familar (he sent a pic of me???) and how that would be "bad" and he said "yes,it really would"

Now, an update on this weekend. I know she sent him her phone number last wednesday and that seemed to be their last yahoo chat, and I assumed that it was going over to texting. This weekend he didnt seemed obsessed with his phone like he had been for awhile. Then saturday morning, she sent a chat message that said "well, hello sir...havent chatted in awhile..what have you been up to" He never replied. We were in the same room when the message was sent. I think he may be laying low to try to gauge if I know about whats going on.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

blindedbylove said:


> I think he may be laying low to try to gauge if I know about whats going on.


If he has reason to belive you have some evidence of an inappropriate relationship, you need to decide quickly if you want to R with him or wait it out and D. 

If he knows you have some evidence and you don't bring it up, he is going wonder why you didn't bring it up. Left hanging for too long, and conclusion he jumps to will likely put a nail in the coffin of R. Waiting until after the holidays is probably fine, but not too long if he knows you saw the emails. Unless you have D in mind, then don't worry about timing. 

If he is only worried you are on to the scent, and doesn't really know for sure. Then keep playing your cards close to the vest.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Acoa said:


> If he has reason to belive you have some evidence of an inappropriate relationship, you need to decide quickly if you want to R with him or wait it out and D.
> 
> If he knows you have some evidence and you don't bring it up, he is going wonder why you didn't bring it up. Left hanging for too long, and conclusion he jumps to will likely put a nail in the coffin of R. Waiting until after the holidays is probably fine, but not too long if he knows you saw the emails. Unless you have D in mind, then don't worry about timing.
> 
> If he is only worried you are on to the scent, and doesn't really know for sure. Then keep playing your cards close to the vest.


He doesnt know for sure that I am on to him. I think he had an "oh ****" moment but thought he deleted the conversations before I saw them. I dont think he realizes that when a message is sent, it is on my phone. Deleting the history will not delete it from my phone. I have a couple racy chats from last week still on my phone. I have no idea how to forward them to email. However, he is smart enough now that he is not responding to her chat messages. It has been very difficult for me not to call her phone or send a message on that profile myself....but then it is out that I know and I have to make sure I am ready to tackle that before I do that. 
I've decided to install a keylogger on his laptop. I realize that he does most of his interaction with his phone, but with the keylogger I will have access to his passwords. I'm not doing this until after the holidays for a couple reasons...1..I dont want the stress of it consuming me over the holidays, and 2, I need to wait for a stipend check I am getting to pay for it. I am taking the advice of a poster and installing it first on my laptop to make sure there is no way the anti virus will pick it up or that it will be noticeable at all. He is very computer savvy and any indication that he knows something was installed on his computer is not good. I decided not to try to hack his phone. I know he chats on there, but I also know that if he has another profile he is using, I will be able to find it on the laptop. He much prefers computing on the laptop because of the big screen. I know he is hiding stuff on his computer because I checked it yesterday and he deleted his internet history.

Does anyone know how to find yahoo chat logs on the hard drive? I know that I found one last year but it was by mistake and I have no idea where I got it!


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Update....I am having a difficult time waiting for D-day... I find myself playing out conversations in my head about how I am going to confront. Every little thing he does, I somehow relate to this thing hes got going on....Yesterday he asked me where his santa hat was cuz he wanted to wear it to work. And all I could think of was a message he sent her that said "if I wear my santa hat will you sit on my lap" and I snapped and said "is that the dress code for tomorrow or are you the secret santa" The day before he asked me if I was going to be in {city she lives in} and I asked why would I go there, I hate shopping in that town full of *****s. 

It is so hard to keep my mouth shut....


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

It will be difficult to get through the holidays without your anger leaking out. But don't lose your cool. Make sure your confrontation is planned and stick to your plan.

Do you have a gym nearby? Know someone with some equipment? Try to get a good workout in. Crank up some good angry music and push yourself to exhaustion on a treadmill or bike. It will use up some of that adrenaline and take the edge off for a few hours.


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## SaffronPower (Mar 6, 2011)

Not to downplay the EA but you guys get along, you're having sex, most of your relationship is on track. Instead of spending all this time creeping around and spying. Why not tell him you know he has a problem with flirting on the internet. He told you it was a game to him. Maybe he got used to it when he was single for stimulation. It's not a pretty thing, it's not a nice thing, but if you love him, help him see it's not good for him and it's hurting you. I don't think he's unhappy with you really it's more of an addiction thing. See if he will read some on this site about Emotional Affairs and maybe read up on some signs of addiction. I don't think you are blowing anything out of proportion. He needs to stop it. But nobody is perfect. Be patient and don't go to the worst case scenario in your head. All the details about kids and money and school are irrelevant if he is just a good guy with a problem. He can fix this.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

Acoa said:


> It will be difficult to get through the holidays without your anger leaking out. But don't lose your cool. Make sure your confrontation is planned and stick to your plan.
> 
> Do you have a gym nearby? Know someone with some equipment? Try to get a good workout in. Crank up some good angry music and push yourself to exhaustion on a treadmill or bike. It will use up some of that adrenaline and take the edge off for a few hours.


I've been doing the Wii fit for frustration outlet, haha. I have a playlist on my ipod that starts with "mad" fast music, then ends with upbeat dance music. That does help except for night time when he and the kids are home, and I feel like I am pretending things are fine.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

SaffronPower said:


> Not to downplay the EA but you guys get along, you're having sex, most of your relationship is on track. Instead of spending all this time creeping around and spying. Why not tell him you know he has a problem with flirting on the internet. He told you it was a game to him. Maybe he got used to it when he was single for stimulation. It's not a pretty thing, it's not a nice thing, but if you love him, help him see it's not good for him and it's hurting you. I don't think he's unhappy with you really it's more of an addiction thing. See if he will read some on this site about Emotional Affairs and maybe read up on some signs of addiction. I don't think you are blowing anything out of proportion. He needs to stop it. But nobody is perfect. Be patient and don't go to the worst case scenario in your head. All the details about kids and money and school are irrelevant if he is just a good guy with a problem. He can fix this.


That is what makes this so difficult. This is literally the only big problem we have. Not to downplay it myself, and not to sound like I am making excuses for him, but he really is an upstanding person other than this "addiction" Last year when I confronted him, I said all of that, how I understood that it was an addiction and that I didn't doubt his love for me, only his devotion to me. It's sometimes very difficult for me to want to confront him because of how much I love our life together. 

ugh....I've even thought about just making him realize I know whats been going on without the confrontation. Then I have days where I want to get in his face and scream!


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## SaffronPower (Mar 6, 2011)

I know this is difficult but he is lucky to have you. Don't keep secrets. Tell him you know. Let him know it scares you. Even if he is doing this anonymously this could backfire and ruin his reputation, his relationship with you and maybe even your safety.

Share your concerns and fears and realize someone can't get over an addiction in a day, week or year. He might think this is all in his head and not affecting you. He needs to know what it does to you. 

I'm so not saying to be a doormat. Stay positive, stay calm, help him out as though he has a broken leg. Right now he has a tiny hole in his brain that says he's not doing anything bad really. He mainly needs a wake up call. And you may need to repeat it a few times. 

Years from now when you need help with a problem, he'll learn from your example how to be straightforward and caring. You're not in it to "win", he's not the bad guy, you're a couple getting to know each other and helping each other along.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

While i respect saffron's opinions, i don't think caring for him is going to stop his behavior. It may just drive it underground or only temporarily stop it. Then again, i am no one to offer advice. I thought i was in the perfect relationship too and i still care about my husband more than myself. But we have only been together for 4 years, married for two. Around our first year anniversary i learned about a secret email account with endearing messages to other women who he met in chatrooms. They weren't sexual but they were secret and used language of love reserved for your significant other normally. So my "upstandibg" husband in other respects had this weird desire to connect with other woman in some non-sexual but nonetheless fantasy world. I was shocked but due to my undying love for him after much crying and some yelling and him crying i forgave. We didn't talk about it much. One year later i get this bad feeling in my gut. Sure enough i snatch his phone and find calls to random numbers, to girls. I searched the numbers and found out one was an escort working in the city we were in. Disgusting to type in the number from partner's phone and find pics of a ***** 2 years younger than me. He also went to a strip club the afternoon before we were celebrating our 2nd year anniversary. Sick. He got a strippers number. I think i caughr him before things got physical (based on timing, evudence, and his reactions. I could tell lies from truth in how he talked. 

I too don't understand gow i can at once have a loving, hardworking good person for a husband who also sickly searched for thrills outside of s happy marriage. I never denief him sex either. It'd rather ****ed up and because he is in all other ways a good person, it's less clear cut.

Interesting parallels- i too am a student and only with extravagantly spending on starbucks did i survive finals. I also financially cannot just separate. Moreover i can't dump him due to my love for his being. Then again times like tonight i feel sych resentment. How could he not think of me when calling prostitutes? Can u love someone deeply and treat them so despicably? It doesn't make sense and it makes the future odds of a successful relationship for decades unlikely to be in my favor. I love him but hate what he did. I too am struggling to reconcile what we had with what he did. He said our marriafe wad in no way lacking, it was out if a desire for something different. Totally despicable. And how can i not think about his intent to **** prostitutes when he makes sexual advances now. Now i am turning away at times. I hate him for turning our marriage into this and for ruining my idealism and trust in him and life.

I'm very interested in everythinf yoy have to say since our guys seem similarily corrupt and yet still good people. Hang in there and read the newbie links. Excuse typos as i'm on my ipod.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> While i respect saffron's opinions, i don't think caring for him is going to stop his behavior. It may just drive it underground or only temporarily stop it. Then again, i am no one to offer advice. I thought i was in the perfect relationship too and i still care about my husband more than myself. But we have only been together for 4 years, married for two. Around our first year anniversary i learned about a secret email account with endearing messages to other women who he met in chatrooms. They weren't sexual but they were secret and used language of love reserved for your significant other normally. So my "upstandibg" husband in other respects had this weird desire to connect with other woman in some non-sexual but nonetheless fantasy world. I was shocked but due to my undying love for him after much crying and some yelling and him crying i forgave. We didn't talk about it much. One year later i get this bad feeling in my gut. Sure enough i snatch his phone and find calls to random numbers, to girls. I searched the numbers and found out one was an escort working in the city we were in. Disgusting to type in the number from partner's phone and find pics of a ***** 2 years younger than me. He also went to a strip club the afternoon before we were celebrating our 2nd year anniversary. Sick. He got a strippers number. I think i caughr him before things got physical (based on timing, evudence, and his reactions. I could tell lies from truth in how he talked.
> 
> I too don't understand gow i can at once have a loving, hardworking good person for a husband who also sickly searched for thrills outside of s happy marriage. I never denief him sex either. It'd rather ****ed up and because he is in all other ways a good person, it's less clear cut.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post...it really helped to know someone is going through a very similar experience. The holidays were so wonderful and yet in the back of my mind I was thinking about when to confront and how. Everytime someone mentioned how we were great parents or how glad they are that we are together and what a great family we have, I wanted to scream. Because inside I know how great we are, what a great family life we have, and what a wonderful loving person he is. But there is this dark dark cloud that I cant seem to get out from under. I find myself not wanting to confront because I dont want to ruin this life. I dont want the loving to stop, I dont want to hurt him. Then I hate myself for thinking more about hurting him and less about how he has hurt me. The day before Christmas eve, he told me he had to run to the store to get one more gift and I couldnt go with him. He told me what store it was...and it was in her town...and it was a store that they had mentioned meeting in the parking lot someday in their chats. It also is a store that we normally shop at so it isnt entirely odd that he would go there. But I seriously logged what time he left, how long I know it takes to get there, and what time he came back. He came back with many bags, and couldnt have been in the store longer than 30 minutes based on the timing. I looked at the time on the receipt that he checked out, and he was home 20 minutes after, which is how long it takes to get there. I hate that I feel like I have to keep an accounting of where he is and wonder the whole time he is gone. Everytime he picks up his phone, I wonder. Everytime he looks on his laptop, I wonder. 
I have thought about the logistics of confrontation...how, when, should I scream..should I remain calm. Should I send the kids away, should I leave, should I be understanding about this addiction, should I tell him how much I love him, or is that going to make him think he got away with it. And then I think of his possible reactions based on the last time...will he try to make it like I somehow contributed to it, will he deny all that he can possibly deny..will he act like it really wasnt a big deal...will he be sorry he hurt me or just sorry he got caught....and then there are the thoughts like does he really love me..is he in love with me...or is he in love with the idea of having an ideal family.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Blindedbylove,

Whatever you do, don't rugsweep a second time. Did you read the newbie link _Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this_? I HIGHLY recommend you copy and paste the following url and read the info if you haven't already:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

So about confronting. This is very important IF you do not want a repeat incident. Based on your husband's past actions (and my own), it is clear that if you forgive and their is no SERIOUS "cost" to his actions, then he will do it again - just being more careful next time.

Make sure you have time to talk when you confront. If you can remain calm great - most I think fall apart (crying, screaming, breaking things) when confronting (myself included). I would definitely arrange so that the kids do not witness this.

What is important is that your husband realize the SEVERITY of what he is doing. He likely will not understand severity in terms of the pain it is causing you - or he may but use that for justification to just be more secretive. He needs to understand the severity of the situation as it AFFECTS HIM. More specifically, he needs to understand that it is either 100% faithfulness and transparency or DIVORCE. He must hear the word divorce. Serious talk of divorce (not empty threats) has the potential to shock the despicable behavior out of the WS's system. 

You can tell him how much you love him. But don't let him think that that will prevent you from acting (e.g. divorce) if his actions continue. Be clear that you will NOT put up with such a relationship. But yes, you can explain your absolute confusion and pain because you love him dearly and you thought you had the perfect marriage. It's good for him to see the "good" that he has and how close he is to LOSING it ALL.

You need to have conditions for him to meet, in order for you to not divorce him. Others have said it better, and I hope they chime in with the advice. What comes to mind foremost is:

1. NO CONTACT - with that woman or any others he is involved with. Delete facebook accounts, block phone numbers, have him write a no contact letter. (Search info on this forum for how this should be done.)

2. FULL DISCLOSURE - He needs to write down or tell you every single incident of wayward behavior. He doesn't have to give more details than you want. But he needs to come clean ALL AT ONCE. No trickle truth. I think it's helpful to tell him he has 48 hours or one week to confess EVERYTHING. Anything you learn after that is like a third strike. Too late. Divorce.

3. HONESTY - No more lies. The lying is as bad as the cheating. It is impossible to have a healthy relationship built on lies. No white lies. No lies of any shape or form if he wants to stay married to you.

4. TRANSPARENCY - He needs to actively prove to you that he is not hiding anything. He should give you access to all accounts and devices. Passwords. Everything. 

5. PATIENCE - This wasn't mentioned on the list I read before. But I think it's crucial that the wayward spouse realizes this is not just going to go away in a week. It will continue affecting the BS for a long time, and the WS needs to be ready to support the partner who is suffering. It is not okay for the WS to say "We're still not over this..." or anything like this. 

This is a start as far as confrontation goes. Be FIRM. He needs to understand the severity of the situation. He needs to understand that he WILL lose EVERYTHING if he continues such behavior and if he does not comply with your conditions. You cannot go back to "how it was before". Trust is gone (for a while). Actions speak louder than words. If he protests those conditions, be clear: "If you are unwilling to do this for me and for our marriage, then I will have no choice but to file for divorce. I have to protect myself and our marriage. Otherwise, I don't want it." Or something like that.

A whole other issue that is very important to me is REMORSE. But I don't know that it is appropriate to talk about it during confrontation. Later, it will be important that he shows his remorse for the pain he has caused you. This is no trivial matter.

Hang in there!!!!! I'll likely write more later. I'm really interested in how everything plays out for you since our situation is so similar.


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## blindedbylove (Dec 13, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> Hi Blindedbylove,
> 
> Whatever you do, don't rugsweep a second time. Did you read the newbie link _Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this_? I HIGHLY recommend you copy and paste the following url and read the info if you haven't already:
> 
> ...


I posted on the confrontation thread how it went...it was somber, not really what I expected. I really half expected him to direct the problem at me..but he said there was no problems in our marriage whatsoever. He said he may have an addiction, that the communication starts and quickly escalates. I did nothing but confront...I didnt give any indication that I was ok or that it is by any means dealt with. After reading this and another posters suggestions, I plan on leaving for the weekend or for the night to gather my thoughts. Before I leave, I will give him the "understanding your betrayed spouse" article. Something for him to read about while I'm gone. 
I like what you wrote about making sure he understands there will be no tolerance. I do think he will fight the tranparency issue. He is a very private man, not only with me, but with everyone. At this point however, he deserves no privacy and that is huge for me. I know couples who frequently go on each others accounts, not to spy but they just go check an email or look for a contact. That would never happen with us. But at this point if he does try to fight it, I will explain that that was his mode of secrecy and I simply cannot live with secrets any longer. If it truly is an addiction, you dont just take away the drug from the drug user, you take him out of the element and get all paraphanalia away from him. For a cyber affair addict you take away the tool -- the computer. If he refuses, we will start planning how we will separate. 
Ironically a friend of mine went through all of this a couple years ago, only she was the WS doing it to her husband. She had a cyber affair and when they decided to reconcile, she had to give up all of her internet doings. He never exposed her to everyone and I am not sure I agree with all of the exposure advice I have seen. I will not say I wont do it or I will. I do know if I do decide to seek divorce, it will be exposed. I have enough proof that he would never deny, but my intent at that point will be to save my own reputation.


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