# Am I just stupid?



## hieronymus (Jan 21, 2012)

LONG Introduction:


Our history (as brief as I can make it):

Married 24 years. Two children: 21 and 11. Met in college, but didn’t start romantic relationship until senior year. Got married soon after graduation. 

Two weeks before our wedding, my soon-to-be wife slept with her first boyfriend (BF #1). She expressed remorse, pledged love to me, and I forgave her. We got married as planned and moved on as if it never happened. Of course, in hindsight, I see how this was a big-time rug-sweep.

Within a year she went to visit another old boyfriend (BF #2) whom she considered a friend and mentor. I didn’t want her to go, but was under the delusion that saying no would make me a jealous and controlling husband. She went and swore that nothing inappropriate occurred over the weekend she was with him. After coming back from that visit she abruptly quit her job (without consulting me) and went back to school full-time. I supported her in pursuing her education and we found a way to make it work. In the years that followed there were a few signs of continued contact with BF #2 (occasional cards and letters) but it didn’t appear they were more than friends.

During that period we worked through a number of life challenges, finishing graduate school, starting careers, losing two pregnancies, the birth of our oldest, and the death of my wife’s mother. I always felt like my wife and I had moments of great alignment during this period, but that something was always just a bit off.

A few years later she went to a week-long reunion for a summer camp where she had worked and I suspected she met up with BF #2, though I could never prove it. 

Life continued and in the ensuing years we experienced more lost pregnancies, several in vitro attempts, individual and marriage counseling, career transitions, and the adoption of our dear youngest child. I loved her, but continued to feel like there was a distance between us that we would never be able to bridge. Before the adoption I seriously considered leaving my wife, but couldn’t bring myself to do it.

Our lives stayed busy, with both of us progressing in our careers. By 2005 I was working a lot of hours, traveling a lot, and nearly always tired when I was home. Admittedly, I was more withdrawn from her and our children. I was not the husband and father I should have been during this period, but I rationalized it because I was making strides in my career and strengthening our financial future.

This past summer I discovered that she had been engaged in a long-term EA with BF #2. They had mainly exchanged emails, but also phone calls and facebook chats. In addition, they had met in person once, but had not slept with one another (verified by their emails). I also confirmed that they had maintained significant contact throughout our early marriage and that they had spent time together at the reunion many years ago. Again, they had been physically close at that time, but hadn't had intercourse, according to their emails.

I soon got into her email accounts, including the secret account she created to correspond with him and saw that even before her contact with BF #2 she was exchanging “fond remembrance” emails with BF #1. With BF #2 they took on a more overt romantic and sexual overtone, though that seemed to become less intense in the last couple of years. 

Since D-day, we have been working toward R. There has been NC as far as I can tell—and I have been pretty diligent in my monitoring. I have been in IC and have made significant strides in becoming a better husband and father. When I ask her about the EA, she talks about what I wasn’t giving her and how disconnected she felt, etc. There is regret, but I am not sure there is true remorse. She suggested MC, but is leaving it up to me to make the arrangements (a familiar pattern in our relationship—she has a need or complaint and it is left up to me to “fix” the situation.
So, I find myself caught emotionally between wanting to stay and trust her and wanting to leave. I don’t want to be her second or third choice. She says I am not, but how do I believe her? We are getting closer to being empty-nesters, yet I don’t know if I can stay long enough to get there. Within the past two weeks I have been approached about an appealing career opportunity in another part of the country. It would be the perfect chance to move on without her.

My questions: 
1. I know I contributed to the circumstance we’re in now, but am I a fool to think she can be true to me for the remainder of our marriage?

2.	Should I broach a separation if I end up taking the new position, or will that completely kill any chances for us to R?

Thanks in advance to everyone.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

Big red flags should have gone up for her to sleep with an old BF when she was about to become your wife. 
That would have been the furthest thing from my mind.
I would have been thinking about being with you that night not someone I used to know.

That's great that you are taking on part of responsibility for the problems in your marriage. 
Now if she would only do the same and act like she wants to be married to you and that she is still in love with you that would make you feel like what you have together is something worth holding onto. 

The opportunity to work elsewhere would seem to make things more difficult regardless of you staying or leaving the relationship.

I would tell her you have trust issues with her and for good reason
Tell her you love her but you need to know her true feelings and if she wants to contiue working on your relationship. Make sure she isn't holding on to you for financial gain only. You want someone who loves you for who you are not the money you make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

She'll be doing it again just as soon as she's sure you aren't watching her. Do you really want to live like this?


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

She spread her legs for an ex 2 weeks prior to your wedding?

She is lazily allowing you to make all the arrangements for MC that is required because of her transgressions?

She has been maintaining an EA with another man for the duration of your marriage?

She lays the blame for her EA and marital problems at your feet, because you were out busting tail to secure a future for her and your children?

And you are allowing this to go on? Are you F*CKING kidding me?


Seems you are owned. Here's the steps I recomend you take next:

1) Scour the house and find the jar she is keeping your testicles in. Stuff them in your pocket for future surgical reattachment.

2) Call the out-of-state employer and tell them you'll take the job;

3) Pull out half of all your savings and put them in a separate account under your name only. 

4) Start packing.

5) Go to a lawyer and file for divorce. 

6) On your way out the door, tell her thanks for all the years of lies and the sham marriage, and that she will soon be getting served papers.

7) Drive off into the sunset and never look back.




Take that job in the other state. Don't tell the pig.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You are in big time denial. Your engaged soon to be wed wife screws another man 2 weeks before your wedding says it all. Why you would marry her is beyond comprehensible? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior which you have found out again to be true. See a lawyer and stop this madness. Good luck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I agree with all of the posters above. She's playing you  How sad. I feel so bad for you. The wedding should have been called off...but all you can do now is look at it for what it is and frankly, it isn't good.

(btw...your screen name...is it for Harry Bosch or the painter?  )


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## Cheezits be tasty (Jan 21, 2012)

From a ws perspective; what you have said does not show she is much interested in helping you overcome your justified fears and concerns. She is leaving counseling up to you? Danger Will Robinson! Definitely a lack of motivation there. The job opportunity sounds like a pretty solid option.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

hieronymus said:


> My questions:
> 1. I know I contributed to the circumstance we’re in now, but am I a fool to think she can be true to me for the remainder of our marriage?
> 
> 2.	Should I broach a separation if I end up taking the new position, or will that completely kill any chances for us to R?
> ...


And here are your answers.

1) No, you are not a fool to think that she *CAN* be true to you for the remainder of your marriage. However, you are a total fool if you think that she *WILL* be true to you for the remainder of your marriage.

2) No, you should not suggest a separation if you end up taking the new job. You should take the new job, leave as quickly as you can, and have your wife served with divorce papers. If you are thinking about R, you are a fool.

3) If you are not a troll, and you are presenting an accurate explanation of your history and how you have handled your wife's infidelity, then yes, you are pretty damn stupid.

Fortunately, you have a great opportunity to not be stupid any more. Spudster gave you some genius-level advice up above here. You should pretty much follow it verbatim.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She's a serial cheater. I sense she's never been in love with you and you've just been her back up guy. She wanted to test the waters before marrying you so I don't buy her lame excuse that you weren't giving her attention. What was she lacking 2 weeks before your marriage? Anyone who cheats this early in their marriage to be should've been a HUGE red flag to their innate character. 

A married man shouldn't have to play detective with his wife. You need to cut your loses and move on.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I agree with all of the posters above. She's playing you  How sad. I feel so bad for you. The wedding should have been called off...but all you can do now is look at it for what it is and frankly, it isn't good.
> 
> )


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Pack your belongings and acept the new job and run from a serial cheater for your entire marriage. Serve her papers immediately. When you go out of her sight you are also gone out of her heart.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

No, you're not stupid, just blindly in love. As you feared, you have always been 3rd choice. OM1 & OM2 have always had her heart. She only chose you because your the better provider. But she's never given you her whole being, just her body. Like you said, you will be empty nesters soon. There is a time limit to your marriage even if you want to reconcile. She's just biding her time until she can be with her true love. Do you want to be with someone like that? Face it, she used you. Don't think that being married to her for 24 years is going to stop her from running to him, what we've seen, it doesnt matter how many years you've been married. Cheaters can throw away everything to be with their affair partner. But you probably wont listen and will try to R anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

What happened to Heironymous? 

Did the wife discover he was posting here and kill him?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to realize that she has never been faithful.. Never. For your entire marriage she has carried on a secret affair with two men.

She knows it was absolutely cheating because she took active steps to hide it. Secret email accounts, meet ups etc. out right lies.

This is her normal world and life. She has had a secret lover for her entire marriage to you.

Do you think there is any way she is going to end it and become faithful for the first time?

She has never been faithful.. She has actually never experienced what bein faithful even means.


Who could she possibly at this point turn into a faithful spouse? She doesnt know how. She has no experience in the job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hieronymus (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks all for your thoughts and advice. As you can see it is a long and complex relationship. 

Of course, red flags should have gone off when she slept with BF #1 before the wedding. I can see that now, but at the time I had just started a new job, was 400 miles from family and friends, and didn't know who to talk to. On top of that I was embarrassed and too ashamed to tell anyone. If it had occurred further out from our wedding I might have had time to process the situation and we could have postponed the ceremony or called things off. In hindsight I see how I messed up, but I also know how/why it happened how it did.

Throughout our marriage I have never really understood why it happened. Was she trying to win him back? Was it "closure" sex? Was she wanting to back out of the marriage and didn't have the courage to just tell me? 

The situation with BF#2 never progressed to a PA (I am confident of that based on their own messages to one another), but I think the main thing that prevented it was the physical distance between them. 

It's hard to encapsulate more than a quarter century into my introductory post and I believe I may have over-simplified our situation. There are other factors that come into play, especially over the last several years, that undoubtedly played a big role. I am not trying to minimize what she has done to me, but I also told you only about her transgressions an did not mention things I did that also crossed some boundaries, though I have never had a PA.

The most complicating factor is our younger child. Our splitting up would be devastating to her. As an adopted child she will face enough identity challenges without also coming from a broken home. We owe it to her to try to make it work.

I can also appreciate that some of you have been hurt terribly by cheating spouses, but I don't think it's healthy for me to view my wife as a "pig" as spudster suggests. I do believe she is sincere in her love for me and in her desire to make the marriage work. She is most definitely out of any fog she was in and the EA itself had appeared to be largely over months before D-day. I just don't know if that desire and love will be enough and I am very afraid to commit to our future together until I am more confident that things will change. My counselor has been largely dismissive of the EA and its impact on me, seeing it as a pretty typical mid-life crisis sort of event. I, obviously, am not so ready to view it that way, especially in light of the history I described.

To that girl, yes Harry Bosch. I'm a huge Michael Connelly fan.

I guess I will just need to make a decision and commit to it. Staying on the threshold is no way to live. Thanks again to all.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

WOOT! I love Micheal Connelly. I'm reading "the Drop" right now. My fave was "the Poet". Good stuff.

But you already knew I was a fan because I knew the name  Harry Bosch is my hero. hahaha


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Cheating with OM1 two weeks before your marriage, keeping in contact with him and contact with OM2 the entire marriage means only 1 thing: Your entire marriage was a lie. Sorry.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

hieronymus said:


> T
> My counselor has been largely dismissive of the EA and its impact on me, seeing it as a pretty typical mid-life crisis sort of event. I, obviously, am not so ready to view it that way, especially in light of the history I described.


Hieron...

Have you challenged your counselor on this issue? Is he/she qualified to work with you in this arena (i.e., Does his/her practice focus on marriages in general and infidelity in particular)? If so, then have you given all of the facts to your counselor (that would obviously affect their interpretation of the situation)? If their practice does not have a marriage/infidelity focus, maybe you need to find a counselor who does.

Good luck.


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