# Wife wants to go to college



## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

Okay a couple weeks ago my wife gets really excited. She says she wants to go to college, they have a two year program to become a dental hygienist, she assures me she would be able to get financial aid to cover the tuition. She tells me that she will be making $65,000 a year with this job. Our present household income is roughly $14,000.

But here's the deal. She should not do this. For many reasons:

1) She already has been to a vocational school and has some sort of certificate in medical office something or other. All I know is that she (meaning I) also has $18,000 worth of loan debt from this and has never made any effort to get a job using it.

2) When we met she was attending a four year school for something I forget. She dropped out as soon as we got in a relationship.

3) At present as a stay at home mom she can't handle her household workload. Let's be charitable and say it's because of "poor work ethic" but her eleven hours a day of sleep don't help that situation. Even when I was working sixty hours a week and she was stay at home I still wound up doing about thirty percent of the laundry/dishes/etc because I got tired of waiting on her to. How in the hell is she going to be able to do all her housework AND care for the children AND go to school?

4) She's just not smart enough for college, let alone a job like that. Having a conversation with her about anything other than the children is pure torture. She doesn't understand half of what I talk about _and I dumb it down for her_. I'd rather sit silently than have to explain the most basic aspects of our world to a grown adult.

So how do I communicate all this without hurting her feelings? Especially that last one.

Anybody have experience with this?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

If your wife has a habit of not finishing commitments or not making good use of investments, that’s one thing and she needs to face up tp that.

But your whole #4 is so demeaning to your life partner, I question your ability to handle this as nicely as you claim to want to. You’ve already told us she’s smart enough to have played you like a cheap guitar.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Why exactly did you marry her? It sounds like you don't have much respect for her? I kind of feel bad for her. 

Also why are you making $14,000 a year working 60 hours a week? If you are willing to work that hard maybe you should be the one going to school. 

Why don't you make each of the classes contingent on the graduating from the previous one. For instance just start with one class and see how she does with that. Maybe she has grown up and will surprise you. Besides that you need to communicate with your wife, and do it in a way that doesn't say you are too stupid to do this. You also have a right to have expectations.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But your whole #4 is so demeaning to your life partner, I question your ability to handle this as nicely as you claim to want to. You’ve already told us she’s smart enough to have played you like a cheap guitar.


I agree that it is demeaning. But I don't want to hurt her feelings, she is a decent loving mother.

I question whether the "purposely getting knocked up" strategy requires any brains at all. Seems many women do it purely via instinct.



sokillme said:


> Why exactly did you marry her? It sounds like you don't have much respect for her? I kind of feel bad for her.


You're right, I don't respect her. Of course I don't. I live with her. She doesn't respect me either. How could she? 

We have two children. That is why we are married.



> Also why are you making $14,000 a year working 60 hours a week? If you are willing to work that hard maybe you should be the one going to school.


I previously worked that many hours. I did make more at that point, but she adjusted her spending upwards and didn't take on any more of the domestic workload so I quickly realized I wasn't gaining anything by killing myself.

I would love to go back to school and finish my degree, I have a little more than a semester to go for my Bachelor's degree. I had to drop out because one day she quit her job for no reason, saying she wanted to be a stay at home mom. Forcing me to take a second job. She just couldn't wait for me to finish my degree.

Also I can't afford to go because I don't qualify for financial aid. My efforts at saving money are mostly ineffective while she has access to the bank account.



> Why don't you make each of the classes contingent on the graduating from the previous one. For instance just start with one class and see how she does with that. Maybe she has grown up and will surprise you. Besides that you need to communicate with your wife, and do it in a way that doesn't say you are too stupid to do this. You also have a right to have expectations.


A decent idea.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm thinking you may want to correct your household income being $14,000.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> 1) She already has been to a vocational school and has some sort of certificate in medical office something or other. All I know is that she (meaning I) also has $18,000 worth of loan debt from this and has never made any effort to get a job using it.


That may be, and I understand it frustrates you. But you don't tell your wife she cannot further her education. That's not up to you, and she does not require your permission to make her own decisions. I don't know your income for certain because I'm thinking you made a mistake in the amount but if it's correct, she would be eligible to receive a grant to pay for classes. Whatever the income is, she may still be able to get one. But if she has to get a loan, is there any way you could avoid being responsible for paying it back if she defaults? Do you live in a community property state or non?



Todd Haberdasher said:


> 2) When we met she was attending a four year school for something I forget. She dropped out as soon as we got in a relationship.


Okay, so she may already have some of the prerequisite credits to go toward this program so maybe it won't take her as long or as much money.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> 3) At present as a stay at home mom she can't handle her household workload. Let's be charitable and say it's because of "poor work ethic" but her eleven hours a day of sleep don't help that situation. Even when I was working sixty hours a week and she was stay at home I still wound up doing about thirty percent of the laundry/dishes/etc because I got tired of waiting on her to. How in the hell is she going to be able to do all her housework AND care for the children AND go to school?


Is there someone other than yourself to help her get organized?



Todd Haberdasher said:


> 4) She's just not smart enough for college, let alone a job like that. Having a conversation with her about anything other than the children is pure torture. She doesn't understand half of what I talk about _and I dumb it down for her_. I'd rather sit silently than have to explain the most basic aspects of our world to a grown adult.


So how do I communicate all this without hurting her feelings? Especially that last one.

Anybody have experience with this?[/QUOTE]

Is it possible you could help her with her studies? And I'm hoping you are joking about telling your wife she is dumb. No matter how dumb you think she is, that is not something you say to her no matter how sweet the words.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

StarFires said:


> I'm thinking you may want to correct your household income being $14,000.


You're telling me! In my dreams I make about twenty thousand a year. That kind of middle class life is a long way off, though.


> But you don't tell your wife she cannot further her education. That's not up to you, and she does not require your permission to make her own decisions.


I don't see why not. I am her husband. Just like I am not permitted to make any decisions for myself, she isn't either. That's only fair.



> Is there someone other than yourself to help her get organized?


Well we have a four year old. Not a very organized one, however.



> Is it possible you could help her with her studies? And I'm hoping you are joking about telling your wife she is dumb. No matter how dumb you think she is, that is not something you say to her no matter how sweet the words.


If I do her homework for her she won't be able to do the damn job when it comes time. I want to avoid all that.

The consensus seems to be to leave her inability to do college coursework out of it. Makes sense!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You can simply tell her that:
1. She already has a degree and isn't using it, so no you aren't footing the bill for another degree.
2. You have one semester left to finish your bachelor's degree and your degree takes priority over another degree for her.
3. She isn't meeting her currently responsibilities, so you cannot agree to her taking on more.

BUT if she gets a job and keeps up with 50% of the housework you will consider her going back to school once you have finished your degree and you have a significantly better paying job.

You really should consider how you can make it happen to finish up with your degree. There are reputable universities that have on-line courses in addition to an actual campus where students attend. It would actually be cheaper for you to finish up your degree than it would be for your wife to go back to school.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

I feel like I didn't clearly state in the opening post that she would be able to get financial aid to cover all her tuition. The cost is not the issue. It's that for two years I will be working AND doing all the housework AND being alone with the children.... all for nothing.


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## SarcasticRed (Feb 21, 2018)

There is nothing for you to gain by her being financially dependent on you. Your relationship is not at all equal and sounds toxic. She has her own issues and you have yours. If you can find a place with a sliding scale, get into therapy. What would it take for you to go back to school part-time? I can't imagine you WOULDN'T get significant financial aid since you are supporting a family of 4 on $14k (which just blows my mind, to be honest). Even doing a class at a time, you could work on improving your income. Money isn't everything but it is something. 

Generally, having kids does not mean you need to be married and from what you describe, this is not a good relationship for you or for you to be modeling for your children. 

Maybe she can get a job and pay off the old debt before going back to school. This will mean some adjustment for your family. Either find a way to get childcare or work opposite schedules for a bit. But the short-term sacrifice would probably be worth it, in the long run, to clear the debt and get more income.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

SarcasticRed said:


> There is nothing for you to gain by her being financially dependent on you. Your relationship is not at all equal and sounds toxic. She has her own issues and you have yours. If you can find a place with a sliding scale, get into therapy.


Therapy for what???



> What would it take for you to go back to school part-time? I can't imagine you WOULDN'T get significant financial aid since you are supporting a family of 4 on $14k (which just blows my mind, to be honest). Even doing a class at a time, you could work on improving your income. Money isn't everything but it is something.


I am ineligible for financial aid based on academic issues, not income ones.



> Generally, having kids does not mean you need to be married and from what you describe, this is not a good relationship for you or for you to be modeling for your children.


I don't want my kids to be homeless or hungry.



> Maybe she can get a job and pay off the old debt before going back to school. This will mean some adjustment for your family. Either find a way to get childcare or work opposite schedules for a bit. But the short-term sacrifice would probably be worth it, in the long run, to clear the debt and get more income.


We are fine with our present level of income. We have a budget and a credit card with a $300 limit for emergencies.

We can't "work opposite schedules" because that would leave me alone with the children. I can handle an hour here or there but no more. Men are not psychologically equipped to care for children.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> You're telling me! In my dreams I make about twenty thousand a year. That kind of middle class life is a long way off, though.


$20,000 a year isn't middle class.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> I don't see why not. I am her husband. Just like I am not permitted to make any decisions for myself, she isn't either. That's only fair.


That's a little skewed. No one said you're not to discuss and make decisions together. I said you don't tell her what to do. There's a difference. You and she might agree about her going back to school and might not agree, but she is not obligated to comply just because you say no. If you and she have that kind of agreement that you will do what each other says, then that's fine. But it's not an inherent marital privilege over the Constitution.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> Well we have a four year old. Not a very organized one, however.


Children can be taught to be organized also. 4 years old is right at the perfect age for it.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> If I do her homework for her she won't be able to do the damn job when it comes time. I want to avoid all that.


I'm hoping you are not the same as you described your wife because you got mixed up again. I didn't say anything like do her homework for her. You had us thinking you are so much smarter than her, so I asked if you could help her with her studies. Why do you not see the difference?


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

StarFires said:


> $20,000 a year isn't middle class.


Okay but it is an amount of money that ensures you don't have to worry about paying bills, etc. You are able to have some "cushion" in the budget.



> That's a little skewed. No one said you're not to discuss and make decisions together. I said you don't tell her what to do. There's a difference. You and she might agree about her going back to school and might not agree, but she is not obligated to comply just because you say no. If you and she have that kind of agreement that you will do what each other says, then that's fine. But it's not an inherent marital privilege over the Constitution.


She needs my approval to do anything like this. I could make it very difficult (near impossible) for her to be successful at it, should she go against my wishes. I could refuse her the use of the car, not assist with child care, etc.



> I'm hoping you are not the same as you described your wife because you got mixed up again. I didn't say anything like do her homework for her. You had us thinking you are so much smarter than her, so I asked if you could help her with her studies. Why do you not see the difference?


What do you mean "help" her? I'm having difficulty imagining how that would work.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Do you live in Section 8 housing?

I’m curious to know how you survive on $14K per year. That comes out to about $1166 per month. With housing, car, fuel, auto insurance, groceries, clothing, utilities, medical bills, etc. you must really be good at stretching your budget.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Start taking some class tp finish that degree!

Wharever it takes!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> I feel like I didn't clearly state in the opening post that she would be able to get financial aid to cover all her tuition. The cost is not the issue. It's that for two years I will be working AND doing all the housework AND being alone with the children.... all for nothing.


Why can't she get financial aid and loans to cover her tuition and have some left over to live on?

What was the degree that you were studying for?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> We can't "work opposite schedules" because that would leave me alone with the children. I can handle an hour here or there but no more. Men are not psychologically equipped to care for children.


Oh get real. This is just ridiculous.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Don’t forget you will have plenty of time to study your extensive porn collection that you seem to be writing a thesis about.
Maybe if you spend some time with your wife instead of looking at porn you will realize she is not the “dumb ass” you think she is.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Why can't she get financial aid and loans to cover her tuition and have some left over to live on?
> 
> What was the degree that you were studying for?


I think the issue is that she will not be able to pay BACK the loans, because he has little confidence that she will either a) finish the degree or b) actually pursue/find work in that area even if she finished the degree. As a consequence, they would incur a large student loan debt with no resulting increased income stream to pay for it. And since they are married, that means HE incurs the debt. 

The "some left over to live on" is irrelevant since it still eventually has to be paid back and he doesn't want to incur this unpayable debt in the first place.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I think the issue is that she will not be able to pay BACK the loans, because he has little confidence that she will either a) finish the degree or b) actually pursue/find work in that area even if she finished the degree. As a consequence, they would incur a large student loan debt with no resulting increased income stream to pay for it. And since they are married, that means HE incurs the debt.
> 
> The "some left over to live on" is irrelevant since it still eventually has to be paid back and he doesn't want to incur this unpayable debt in the first place.


Yes I can read.

I asked the question to get his answer.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> We can't "work opposite schedules" because that would leave me alone with the children. I can handle an hour here or there but no more. Men are not psychologically equipped to care for children.


I raised two daughters largely alone while Mom put career first. The above is nowhere near accurate. I do have a few college degrees in psychology .

If you think playing Legos is hard, try playing career counselor, relationship counselor, academic advisor, financial advisor, and many other roles when they "grow up". 

Raising two daughters has been by far the most challenging thing I've ever done, but the most rewarding as well.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Do you live in Section 8 housing?
> 
> I’m curious to know how you survive on $14K per year. That comes out to about $1166 per month. With housing, car, fuel, auto insurance, groceries, clothing, utilities, medical bills, etc. you must really be good at stretching your budget.


Lemme explain how this works for those that have never been that broke. Of course I'm not OP, but I've been there. At one point we were living on $1200 a month. Also, this is assuming OP is in the US. If he lives outside of the US, that income might stretch a lot further. 

Section 8 housing if you're lucky (here there's a 2 year wait list and good luck finding a landlord that accepts Sec. 8), living with relatives, with the financial help of relatives, or in the hood where housing is cheap. In our local "hood" you can get a 3 bed ,1 bath, house for around $600 per month including electric and heat. Move 3 miles away from that area and the housing price doubles without utilities included.

Silly rabbit, when you're that broke you don't have a car payment. You own a car that's been gifted to you or that you bought used and paid for in cash. Poor families often use Earned Income Credit tax returns to pay for big ticket items they need. Both of my younger siblings have large families and small incomes. They get around $3000-$6000 every year in EIC and then use that money to buy a car or minivan that will last a year or two. Rinse and repeat.

Fuel can be expensive. Right now we're paying $2.50 a gallon. Poor folk tend to only drive when they have to.

Auto insurance is a thing and poor people tend to handle that 1 of 2 ways. Either they buy the cheapest cruddiest insurance they can get just to legally drive, which is about $89 per month around here or they pay for insurance to get their yearly auto registration renewal and then stop paying til next year.

With an income that low and a family of 4 (OP said himself, wife, and 2 kids), they should be qualified for state and/or federal aid. Meaning, food stamp card to cover groceries and medicaid to cover medical.

Clothing is easy if you know the local resale shops. For a few years there, I probably spent around $300 per year on clothes for my whole family because I was willing to spend time here and there digging through the racks looking for nice things on the cheap. It's actually not very difficult to find name brand clothing in great condition for a few dollars an item. Hell, our local resale shop chain does 5 for $5 on Fri and Sat. I once walked out of said store with a few Old Navy pieces and a couple Adidas pieces for $5. 

So, yeah, it can be done.
@Todd Haberdasher

At $14,000 a year your family is well below the poverty level. For a family of 4, federal poverty level is $24,600 per year. So, no, $20,000 is NOT middle class. 

Are you over 25? Are you a good driver with a clean driving record? Have you considered training to be a CDL-A truck driver? DH took a 2 week class with financial aid, passed the state written and driving exams, and literally tripled , damn near quadrupled, our income within weeks. He had to take an over the road/regional job to gain the experience to get a local job, but the money is good and truck drivers are needed.

Other than that, I agree with NOT allowing your wife to take dental hygienist classes. Here's why. A plethora of what are basically job training scam schools are open everywhere. They turn out dental hygienists, vet techs, medical assistants, etc. by the dozens. The problem is that the vast majority of those people will not be able to find jobs locally. There are far too many people available for far too few jobs available. On top of that, many employers see the names of those schools and circular file the application/resume. The rest want experience.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> I feel like I didn't clearly state in the opening post that she would be able to get financial aid to cover all her tuition. The cost is not the issue. It's that for two years I will be working AND doing all the housework AND being alone with the children.... all for nothing.


Welcome to the world of most married women with kids who *also* work a full-time job. Not so much fun when it's YOU being the workhorse from sunrise to 11:00 pm every night, is it?

I honestly don't know why your wife wastes her time with you. You just bring absolutely NOTHING to the table. Maybe if you were bringing in the big bucks I could understand why she might stay with a troglodyte, but at $14,000 a year, I can safely assume that ain't the case. But I hear you're hard at work on your porn thesis, and we all know that's time *MUCH *better spent than looking for a job that actually pays more than what a high school kid earns working part-time at the Gap a year.

I highly suspect our legs are being pulled but I don't think we're allowed to use the 'T' word, so I'll just say, good luck with your porn thesis and that pesky wife who refuses to tow the line no matter *how* much you degrade her or shame her.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> I previously worked that many hours. I did make more at that point, but she adjusted her spending upwards and didn't take on any more of the domestic workload so I quickly realized I wasn't gaining anything by killing myself.


Why didn't you open a separate account, put the excess income there, and tell her that she can only draw from the household account. When it was gone, there was no more until the next check. Under NO circumstances is she to draw form the other account because it is your savings account, for agreed upon expenses that might come up in the future.

Why would you set your sights low, underachieve, under earn on purpose, just so your wife can't spend it, instead of make a plan to protect it so you have a future nest egg?

My mother-in-law was a spender. Her husband made a lot of money, but he wanted to have a retirement, so he put her on a budget to keep her from blowing every penny. He retired very well, and after he died, she blew through what was left since he wasn't around to protect the money.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On your school, your 'one' semester to go.

Take one course per semester [year round], That will get you to the end point at 'some' time in the 'affordable' future.

I worked sixty hours a week or more, was in the Military Reserves and still found time to go the school. I got one degree before thirty, but continued going to college into my forties.
One interesting course at a time.

The only draw back is: some senior level courses that you likely will need are given only during the 9-5 PM daytime, not at night. You may have to change shifts, if possible.

Dental hygienists make good money. But it 'seems' to be hard to find a full time job with benefits. Many are offered 'only' part time work. Which still is a good thing for a mother with young children.

And yes, the courses are much harder than they were in the past. Competition for good jobs demands this. The medical field is turning to specialists, many making a lot less than the "Professionals". Turning much of the former routine work over to cheaper labor, cheaper specialties.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

happyasaclam said:


> Do you live in Section 8 housing?
> 
> I’m curious to know how you survive on $14K per year. That comes out to about $1166 per month. With housing, car, fuel, auto insurance, groceries, clothing, utilities, medical bills, etc. you must really be good at stretching your budget.


I do not live in Section 8 housing, I have my pride after all.

Well it helps that I don't pay for cars (we have two of them, one is a 1995 model and one is a 2002 model. We have an ongoing bet to see which one will hit 250,000 miles first, they are both approaching that milestone but the Subaru will win), don't pay for auto insurance (not worth it), don't pay for groceries (who does?), don't buy any clothing, don't have any medical bills.

I pay for rent, gas, and utilities. The budget covers those things quite snugly. Anything else is not needed.



Andy1001 said:


> Don’t forget you will have plenty of time to study your extensive porn collection that you seem to be writing a thesis about.
> Maybe if you spend some time with your wife instead of looking at porn you will realize she is not the “dumb ass” you think she is.


I never said she was a dumbass, so putting that in quotes makes no sense. She knows a great deal about child rearing.



> Are you over 25? Are you a good driver with a clean driving record? Have you considered training to be a CDL-A truck driver? DH took a 2 week class with financial aid, passed the state written and driving exams, and literally tripled , damn near quadrupled, our income within weeks. He had to take an over the road/regional job to gain the experience to get a local job, but the money is good and truck drivers are needed.


I don't know how to drive a large truck.



john117 said:


> I raised two daughters largely alone while Mom put career first. The above is nowhere near accurate. I do have a few college degrees in psychology .
> 
> If you think playing Legos is hard, try playing career counselor, relationship counselor, academic advisor, financial advisor, and many other roles when they "grow up".
> 
> Raising two daughters has been by far the most challenging thing I've ever done, but the most rewarding as well.


And how many times during that span did you break your hand or other body part striking or kicking a wall or other hard object in rage and terror?



She'sStillGotIt said:


> Welcome to the world of most married women with kids who *also* work a full-time job. Not so much fun when it's YOU being the workhorse from sunrise to 11:00 pm every night, is it?


If you will re-read what I have posted, I am trying to prevent my wife from having to do that. She will never have to have an outside job and I do half of the housework. All I ask is minimal interaction with the children and her.



> I honestly don't know why your wife wastes her time with you. You just bring absolutely NOTHING to the table. Maybe if you were bringing in the big bucks I could understand why she might stay with a troglodyte, but at $14,000 a year, I can safely assume that ain't the case. But I hear you're hard at work on your porn thesis, and we all know that's time *MUCH *better spent than looking for a job that actually pays more than what a high school kid earns working part-time at the Gap a year.
> 
> I highly suspect our legs are being pulled but I don't think we're allowed to use the 'T' word, so I'll just say, good luck with your porn thesis and that pesky wife who refuses to tow the line no matter *how* much you degrade her or shame her.


Well what is her alternative? It's not like better guys just grow on trees. I know I am worthless but in the end she is the one who pursued and ensnared me, not the other way around.



Araucaria said:


> Why didn't you open a separate account, put the excess income there, and tell her that she can only draw from the household account. When it was gone, there was no more until the next check. Under NO circumstances is she to draw form the other account because it is your savings account, for agreed upon expenses that might come up in the future.


She doesn't respond well when I disagree with her.



> Why would you set your sights low, underachieve, under earn on purpose, just so your wife can't spend it, instead of make a plan to protect it so you have a future nest egg?


To minimize the amount of work I have to do.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Todd


> don't pay for auto insurance (not worth it),


Until you need it......


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> Todd
> 
> Until you need it......


Eh. I've been driving for seventeen years and haven't been in an accident yet. Statistically I should be fine until I get really old, hopefully I won't make it that far.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

"And how many times during that span did you break your hand or other body part striking or kicking a wall or other hard object in rage and terror?"

Never. I was too busy being a parent, a graduate student, a graduate teaching fellow, and part time worker to have time to get angry. 

I came to America 35 years ago with two suitcases, $500, and an admission letter. Today I've been successful beyond my dreams, but raising two awesome girls is by far my best accomplishment. Is it easy? No. But it's been fun.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

john117 said:


> "And how many times during that span did you break your hand or other body part striking or kicking a wall or other hard object in rage and terror?"
> 
> Never. I was too busy being a parent, a graduate student, a graduate teaching fellow, and part time worker to have time to get angry.
> 
> I came to America 35 years ago with two suitcases, $500, and an admission letter. Today I've been successful beyond my dreams, but raising two awesome girls is by far my best accomplishment. Is it easy? No. But it's been fun.


It's not about getting angry. Nothing the children do get me angry - they are just children. But I'm talking about that feeling that wells up inside you when you are alone with them. Your blood pressure increases, chest tightens to the point where it is physically difficult to breathe. You check the clock every thirty seconds to see how much longer you have until Mom returns, and when she is late you know she is sitting somewhere laughing at your.... what I can only describe as "terror".


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Lord have mercy....🤕

This guy can't be real.
Have kids but dont buy food?????
Or clothes? 

Live off of $14,000 a year. 

Must live in NYC in rent control apartment or section 8. His wife gets food stamps and other benefits from state. While he does a part time job at deli or corner store. 

Amazing person that he is ....has no intention of doing better. He.loves his life...let the man live it. He does not need advice on how to earn more or to improve his life. He just want to call his wife a dumb ass and expects all of us to laugh along with him.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i know everyone is bagging on you, but i actually admire someone with kids and a wife who can live on 14K a year. seriously.

during the 2008-2012 depression i was struggling badly and going into debt with only a wife to make it on+/- 30K a year in my CA. metro area.
you must live in a rural or outlying area.

what subject will your degree be in? is it a marketable degree that will greatly enhance your income?


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

brooklynAnn said:


> Lord have mercy....🤕
> 
> This guy can't be real.
> Have kids but dont buy food?????
> Or clothes?


I don't buy food but my income does permit me to take advantage of food stamps. I was hoping that part was implied well enough that I didn't have to say it explicitly.



> Live off of $14,000 a year.
> 
> Must live in NYC in rent control apartment or section 8. His wife gets food stamps and other benefits from state. While he does a part time job at deli or corner store.


No I live in the hills of Tennessee, in a two bedroom house on an acre of land out in the country. $570 per month.

I work part time at one of Amazon's warehouses. Two days a week.



> Amazing person that he is ....has no intention of doing better. He.loves his life...let the man live it. He does not need advice on how to earn more or to improve his life. He just want to call his wife a dumb ass and expects all of us to laugh along with him.


In what way does my life need improvement? I have stated several times that I cover all my bills. My wife isn't some demanding brat who wants extra things beyond the necessities.

I never said "dumb ass" about her! She is very knowledgeable about childcare! How many times does it need to be said.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> Other than that, I agree with NOT allowing your wife to take dental hygienist classes. Here's why. A plethora of what are basically job training scam schools are open everywhere. They turn out dental hygienists, vet techs, medical assistants, etc. by the dozens. The problem is that the vast majority of those people will not be able to find jobs locally. There are far too many people available for far too few jobs available. On top of that, many employers see the names of those schools and circular file the application/resume. The rest want experience.


Aw that wasn't fair and no reason to agree with a guy not wanting his wife to get an education. Most of the job training scam school you refer to are not 2-year programs but are often more like 9-12 months. That's the basic way you can tell it's one of those scam schools. OP didn't mention what school, but he did say "college". Dental hygienist is a program alspp taught at legitmate institutions - community colleges, dental colleges, and universities - and they're usually 2-year programs.

Just really disengenuous to agree with him and pose those reasons based entirely on assumption.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

jorgegene said:


> i know everyone is bagging on you, but i actually admire someone with kids and a wife who can live on 14K a year. seriously.


It takes a lot of discipline. My grandfather always said "if you can't eat it you don't need it". He was raised during the Depression and I see no reason why it doesn't still apply.



> what subject will your degree be in? is it a marketable degree that will greatly enhance your income?


Business management. I have no idea if it is marketable or I will even be able to get a job with it. I chose it during the recession because my previous major (history) didn't seem quite as marketable but honestly I have no idea what a person with a management degree actually does.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

StarFires said:


> Aw that wasn't fair and no reason to agree with a guy not wanting his wife to get an education. Most of the job training scam school you refer to are not 2-year programs but are often more like 9-12 months. That's the basic way you can tell it's one of those scam schools. OP didn't mention what school, but he did say "college". Dental hygienist is a program alspp taught at legitmate institutions - community colleges, dental colleges, and universities - and they're usually 2-year programs.
> 
> Just really disengenuous to agree with him and pose those reasons based entirely on assumption.


It is Tennessee State University. An associate's degree, I think.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

No, you are not paying all your own bills. You are on food stamps, and they aren't meant for someone like you. Although you are perfectly capable of paying for your own food you are choosing to not work (out of resentment against your wife) because you don't want to act like an adult man and establish a budget, and set your foot down about your wife's spending so you can save any excess you might have. 

You ask, "Who does (pay for their own food)?" You have got to be joking! 

I don't know the laws in Tennessee, but car insurance is also for paying any medical bills you, your passengers and the people in the other car might incur in the event of an accident. I have been rear ended while stopped at a stop light TWICE by drunk drivers going 50+ miles an hour. Both accidents sent me and my passenger to the hospital. I was thankful that I had insurance, because both times the stupid drivers that hit me didn't.

If you or your children are hit by a car while driving, who will pay for your medical bills...someone else?

You work 2 days a week?? I bet you feel that you are entitled to buy anything you want, and that the government owes you something.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> *No, you are not paying all your own bills. You are on food stamps, and they aren't meant for someone like you. * Although you are perfectly capable of paying for your own food you are choosing to not work (out of resentment against your wife) because you don't want to act like an adult man and establish a budget, and set your foot down about your wife's spending so you can save any excess you might have.
> 
> You ask, "Who does (pay for their own food)?" You have got to be joking!
> 
> ...


Yep. 
Any man who says "I have my pride" while being able bodied and collecting public assistance is full of it. 

And in Tennessee, like most (if not all) states, liability insurance is mandatory, not optional. If Todd is uninsured, he's in violation of state law. He's more likely to be the one who hits someone else while uninsured, which is why the law exists.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> It's not about getting angry. Nothing the children do get me angry - they are just children. But I'm talking about that feeling that wells up inside you when you are alone with them. Your blood pressure increases, chest tightens to the point where it is physically difficult to breathe. You check the clock every thirty seconds to see how much longer you have until Mom returns, and when she is late you know she is sitting somewhere laughing at your.... what I can only describe as "terror".


Never had this. Parenting is learned. Plus I'm a peaceful guy to begin with...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> Eh. I've been driving for seventeen years and haven't been in an accident yet. Statistically I should be fine until I get really old, hopefully I won't make it that far.


Statistically you put everyone else at risk. I have been driving 36 years without an accident. Insured the entire time. Not leaving myself open to thousands in possible medical bills. These odds I don't play. I hope for the sake of yourself you don't need it one day. I tell ya, there are drivers out there that should not be driving.

BTW, you accuse your W of not doing this and that. Take a look in the mirror. You pay for nothing according to your post.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

If it's legitimate and she will finish it and you can handle what you say will happen while she's in school ya'll can make it work. I question all of that happening.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> I work part time at one of Amazon's warehouses. Two days a week.


Do you want to work full-time, or is this the only work available in your area? What do you do the other five days of the week?

Sorry if I'm not up-to-speed on your entire story.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP, living on a low income is very difficult and adds stress to everything. 

I think for your sake you should be looking at options to increase your income. Yes, you *can* live on $14K/year, but you can live a lot better on more. You and your wife might be a lot happier if you weren't under such financial stress.

You post here, so you have a computer. You are working 2 days a week, so you have time. Look around at available jobs (sign up for linkedin, glass door etc - all free). See what people are hiring and then read up a little (wikipedia is fine). 

A lot of fancy sounding things like are actually really simple - just hidden in a bunch of terminology. Find something that looks interesting and teach yourself to do it. Or learn basic office skills. 

There is a guy who works in the shop just upstairs from me. His job is getting emails for parts orders, going to the online catalog, finding the part number and price, and filling out our purchase req forms, Then checking them off boxes when the parts arrive. Its simple, nothing beyond basic computer skills needed. Friendly work environment. Pays well above minimum and comes with full benefits. 

While he is doing it, he is picking things up. He is gradually learning how to manage more complicated orders with more complex fabrication steps, contract etc. If he keeps it up, he'll be move to a higher grade where he is getting paid considerably more for dealing with larger and more complex purchases. Its a job that starts out easy but has a path toward advancement for more pay and more responsibility.








You've got nothing to lose except a little of your time.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

StarFires said:


> Aw that wasn't fair and no reason to agree with a guy not wanting his wife to get an education. Most of the job training scam school you refer to are not 2-year programs but are often more like 9-12 months. That's the basic way you can tell it's one of those scam schools. OP didn't mention what school, but he did say "college". Dental hygienist is a program alspp taught at legitmate institutions - community colleges, dental colleges, and universities - and they're usually 2-year programs.
> 
> Just really disengenuous to agree with him and pose those reasons based entirely on assumption.


She's already been to school twice. Once she got some kind of certificate she isn't using and the other was a 4 year program she quit. I wasn't agreeing she shouldn't go because of the scam schools so much as pointing out so many of those schools are scams AND that the job market is flooded with medical office assistants, dental hygienists, vet techs, etc. It'd be just like the certificate she has now and isn't using.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Get a divorce. 

Get a PO box or your parents house as your address, then have your wages garnished for spousal and child support. 

On $14k, the garnishment will not cover basic survival expenses so she will get a healthy ADC check. 

She will also get tuition assistance and job training courtesy of the taxpayers. 

You in the mean time pose as her deadbeat BF and just keep enough of your clothes and toothbrush hidden in the apartment that when Child Protective Services do an inspection it just looks like you are some BF flopping on the couch or something. Just coach the kids to not call you Daddy if any of the inspectors are present. 

At $14k, she will make a lot more in ADC and welfare than what you are bringing in. Between your garnished spousal and child support payments and the ADC and single mother benefits you will have a higher household income and she will get her tuition assistances.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

On the off chance that this is even for real or in case someone else is in a similar circumstance, I will offer the following in *bold* below -





Todd Haberdasher said:


> She tells me that she will be making $65,000 a year with this job.
> 
> *The median hourly wage for a dental hygienist is roughly $35/hr which would seemingly support the 65k/yr. HOWEVER many of the hygenists I know only make that wage while they are actually digging around in someone's mouth and it takes them years to build up a client base in any given clinic. In other words they are being paid an hourly wage for actual patient contact and are not paid on a standard 40 hour work week on the timeclock.
> 
> ...


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## BlueSuedeShoes (Mar 9, 2018)

Your #4 is really a screwed up way of thinking. People have different learning styles. Just because you might have to explain things to her a lot, it doesn't mean that she is stupid or not smart enough to go to college. I struggle with some things and I'm a man. But then even though I''m not good at English for example, I know how to fix anything electronic or mechanical. THat's just one example of different intelligence types.


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## Etomidate (Mar 10, 2018)

I’ve read all the pages of this post thus far and all of OP’s responses. What I get from all this is:

1. First and foremost he’s threatened by his wife having the possibility of making more money than he does. In order to make himself feel good, he belittled her by calling her dumb. Yet in the same breath he admits he can’t get financial aid for academic reasons (more on his later). He’s a small small “man.”

2. He’s a user and not very financially smart. Claims he doesn’t pay for groceries? So he has enough pride not to get into Section 8 housing but not enough not to be on food stamps? No car insurance? How stupid can someone be?

3. He’s the one who’s dumb. Look at the facts he’s admitted two. First, he can’t get financial aid for academic reasons. This means he’s too dumb to keep up good grades. Second, he makes ooor decisions like not having car insurance. Third, he doesn’t understand half the responses in this thread. 

4. He’s a loser! He makes $14,000 per year! He can’t get a job making more than this? It’s not that difficult to accomplish, yet this loser can’t do it.

OP, if you’re not a troll, let your wife go back to college. She seems to be the smarter one of you two because she has the will to make more money and get your family out of the financial situation that YOU put them in. And just an FYI, she doesn’t need your permission to go to school. I’m pretty sure you can’t legally prevent her from using the cars (let me guess you’re gonna claim they’re in your name only, right skippy). This story sounds like some one-toothed-country-bumpkin trying to get one over on this board!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> We can't "work opposite schedules" because that would leave me alone with the children. I can handle an hour here or there but no more. Men are not psychologically equipped to care for children.


And I thought you were a prince just from the original post. I feel for your wife.


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