# I want to see who can beat my H on this



## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

I am talking about being unromantic. Is this a Q for the sex forum? I guess it's closely related enough. 
Let me say this though, everything I mention below does not bother me that much UNTIL he badgers me for other things (for example, hinting sex). I know he is a good man in many ways. Perhaps too good since he keeps telling me about my bad points. 
(1) I see all these posts about kissing. My H would never kiss me good bye, hi, at a party, in front of kids, not in front of kids, the only time he would kiss (and it's a sloppy probing one) is during sex. 
(2) My H would never hold my hands (or put his arm around me) when walking. 
(3) My H NEVER hugs me unless I am already crying upset about something (and even that rarely earns a hug). 

Regarding the above 3, you might wonder if I kiss or hug him. When we were younger, I would always do so, but he would swat me away like a fly, so I stopped. When it's really cold I might still snuggle up to him on the street and he sometimes passively lets me do it. 

(4) Yesterday we argued and I sarcastically reminded him it's 2 months until 20 yr anniversary. He said OH MAN and started talking about a party. I just kept me mouth shut and a while later I saw him looking at the calendar at the WRONG MONTH (and this is 10 min after the reminder). I said I would not talk to him and he finally realized--after looking inside his wedding band. :rofl:
No, he has never given me anything for anniversary(or remembered I guess). We are also very low key on BDay or VDay. 
(5) I have lots of neck pain. Sometimes I would beg him to give me a little massage, not a full back rub, just a little pressure on the side, his answer is "you have time and money to go to a masseuse".
(6) Don't know if this is romantic or just courtesy. The # of times he has said "you are beautiful" in my lifetime can definitely be counted with my fingers and toes. I know that because he has only said that if we were going out majorly and I had a major dress on. 

Again, I don't want to be toxic. We have definitely traveled everywhere, been to nice hotels, eaten nice dinners. But the things is, I can do those activities with a friend or by myself, whereas the above are in spouse's league....


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

You beat me, and I thought my situation was bad. Grr I'm just up late because I'm frustrated and can't sleep now because of it.

Guess misery loves company...


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

my H used to do all those things, but hadn't for the last few years during the death of our marriage

I guess if your H has always been like that it's not so bad, but you're right it does sound like he's a friend rather than a lover!


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

i am in a very similar position with my wife but we rarely have sex either, to say i feel dejected is a understatment


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

This makes me sad. So many don't appreciate and nurture what they have until love grows cold and is lost.

Thank god something opened my wife's eyes many years ago now. I hope the same happens for you.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

jennifer1986 said:


> I know he is a good man in many ways. Perhaps too good since he keeps telling me about my bad points.


Jenn, he is *not a good man* if all he does is tell you about your bad points. We all have bad points. I will take a wild guess and even assert that hubby might have a few? 

Go buy M. Scott Peck "The Road Less Traveled". Relationships are a two way street and each partner owns one side. Individuals should spend almost all of their time keeping their side of the street clean because it is a full time job. Further, healthy adults realize that they 1) can't fix anybody and 2) have better things to do than try. This is Dysfunctional behavior on the part of your husband. Red flag.



jennifer1986 said:


> (1) I see all these posts about kissing. My H would never kiss me good bye, hi, at a party, in front of kids, not in front of kids, the only time he would kiss (and it's a sloppy probing one) is during sex.


You should tell him exactly that, including the fact that you don't like his kisses in sex. TELL HIM! He needs a 2x4 across the forehead to wake him up.



jennifer1986 said:


> (2) My H would never hold my hands (or put his arm around me) when walking.


As my young son used to say, I feel bad of you.



jennifer1986 said:


> (3) My H NEVER hugs me unless I am already crying upset about something (and even that rarely earns a hug).


I feel worse for you. You are painting a picture of your husband as a frigid, poor kissin', critical boor.

Tell him.



jennifer1986 said:


> Regarding the above 3, you might wonder if I kiss or hug him. When we were younger, I would always do so, but he would swat me away like a fly, so I stopped. When it's really cold I might still snuggle up to him on the street and he sometimes passively lets me do it.




 



jennifer1986 said:


> No, he has never given me anything for anniversary(or remembered I guess). We are also very low key on BDay or VDay.









jennifer1986 said:


> (6) Don't know if this is romantic or just courtesy. The # of times he has said "you are beautiful" in my lifetime can definitely be counted with my fingers and toes. I know that because he has only said that if we were going out majorly and I had a major dress on.


The tension in the courtroom was almost unbearable. The jury foreman stood as the judge asked her to read the verdict.

"Your honor, the jury finds the Husband guilty on all counts. The verdict is unanimous."

The judge scratched his head, motioned to the defendant to step forward and said:

Sir, for 20 years, you have been married to Jennifer. She has been a faithful, loving and caring spouse. She gave you children and helped raise them to be responsible adults. She took care of domestic duties and supported you in a successful career. We established here today that she is not perfect, but she has showed up in her duties as a wife.

You, on the other hand, made it your life's work to be successful. It appears that you have achieved a reasonable amount of it. As a husband and the primary breadwinner, you have provided financial comfort including nice trips, meals and the other benefits for which you are to be commended. 

Sir, marriage and being a husband is more than just paying the bills and being a gruff enforcer of your perceived rules of perfection. You have failed completely on the human side of being a husband. A good husband helps provide a stable home in which to raise a family. He is emotionally available. He is passionate, sometimes naughty, caring, thoughtful. He looks at his beautiful wife and reminds her regularly of how beautiful he finds her - not because he wants something, but because he has gratitude in his heart for his wife and wants her to know it. A real man and husband embraces his masculine energy and passion for his wife and shows her, first by his actions and then with words.

This case pains me because you seem to be a decent human being with a massive blind spot. As you know, the sentence for these crimes is usually imposed by the wife and ranges from divorce to infidelity to just general testiness. Your wife, for reasons that should be explored, has chosen not to punish despite the overwhelming evidence of your guilt.

I have complete discretion in your sentence and I sentence you to two years of intensive therapy with a therapist of your choice. In your first session, you will answer the following questions:

1. What is wrong with physical affection?
2. What is wrong with taking actions that make other people happy?
3. What makes a good husband? 

You will report back to me, within two weeks and include the answers to these questions.

I warn you that I am an impatient judge and that I will impose severe consequences if you do not abide by my ruling. I will warn you further that you should be even more scared that your wife will wake up because he!! hath no fury like a woman scorned and you sir, are living on borrowed time.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Ha Ha Ha Ha

I know if my H was reading all this he would have 10 buckets of reply. He would ADMIT he sucks at being romantic. He would not deny it. 

However, he would also have many other things to say. He would tell you he is a great father (HE IS). He is more than financially responsible. Then he would go on to tell you about all our travels. 

He knows he is not always right and ends up saying "I see your point and I will try to change" (major "change" being not being so critical), then he would be "good" for couple weeks (no kiss or hugging. "Good" means he stays in a good mood and does not criticize me. Then invariably he relapses). 

LOL, I am using medical term. After all, I am a trained professional. My faults= I suck at housework, but I DO them. My H does lots of housework, but I often want to give up because when I do them, he always sees something wrong with the quality of the job (i.e., a corner of the table was not wiped clean). I was amazed when he came home from a business trip. I had cleaned the car (washing bird **** off), house, done laundry, put away kid's stuff, then the first thing he did after entering the house, as he went to bathroom to brush teeth--was to WIPE THE MIRROR. (He has often told me when I use the sink I forget to wipe the mirror afterwards. OOPS I DID IT AGAIN). 

So, you've got 
A very successful man (in terms of $), devoted father, very down to earth.
A reasonably successful woman (makes less $, but after all, I am a pretty well respected physician), not-as-devoted mother (this is hard to define, but he micromanages, so he thinks I do not nag kid #1 enough, and get too easily frustrated with kid #2), totally not down to earth (too many hobbies and interests)

I stand my ground we are EQUAL human beings and he is not my Dad. He does a lot but I do quite a bit too. With kid #2 growing older now, I have to supervise regular school work, Chinese school work, piano... It can drive me nuts because these are exclusively my duties. 

And can I vent just a little bit? I have maintained my weight since high school. I know I still look good (if I bother to put on make-up more I would say stunning), but he always catches me when I wear shaggy sweat pants (I was going to a cooking class, for $%& sake). He wears a polo shirt everyday. 

I recently read "proper care and feeding of husband", but I started flipping thru pages faster and faster...because it was really not applicable to me, and it sounded like she was talking about my H when she talked about NAGGING WIVES!


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

I suspect my wife would have you beat, but I was diagnosed with Aspergers while seeking marriage counseling.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

jennifer1986 said:


> I am talking about being unromantic. Is this a Q for the sex forum? I guess it's closely related enough.
> Let me say this though, everything I mention below does not bother me that much UNTIL he badgers me for other things (for example, hinting sex). I know he is a good man in many ways. Perhaps too good since he keeps telling me about my bad points.
> (1) I see all these posts about kissing. My H would never kiss me good bye, hi, at a party, in front of kids, not in front of kids, the only time he would kiss (and it's a sloppy probing one) is during sex.
> (2) My H would never hold my hands (or put his arm around me) when walking.
> ...


I did much better, and my wife still divorced me!:scratchhead: This is the thing that makes me think relationships are too complicated. I always kissed my wife goodbye, etc., and we never said goodbye on the phone without saying "I love you." Granted, it wasn't always in the heat of passion, it became a habit, but hey, there are worse habits than telling your wife you love her. I always gave her massages; shoulders, feet, all over. I told her how beautiful she was often. Yet, I somehow didn't fulfill some other emotional need. :scratchhead:


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't normally take this tone, but in this case, I cannot relate to your husband at all.

I LOVE kissing my wife. I always thought it was healthy for our kids to see mom and dad kissing so they always saw more than they wanted to of that . In the early days of our marriage, she actually joked with me that we were going to wear our lips away before we got old. I don't remember ever not kissing her goodbye, hello, goodnight, good morning, or even just kissing her when I looked at her and thought it was a good time to kiss her.

I LOVE touching my wife in non-sexual ways. At church, the elder ladies always comment to us that they love the way we always have our arms around each other (it's not really always, but it is often). When we take our daily walks, we are almost always are holding hands, or have our arms around each other. I just like touching her. I hope in another 20 years that we're one of those couples that young people point at and say "when we're that age, I want to be like them." But mostly, we do that because I like holding hands with her, or having my arm around here, and I love it when she puts an arm around me (even when she grabs my butt, or pokes me in the butt ... ). 

Honestly, it took a broken foot for me to realize that my wife likes being massaged, but once I figured that out, I started giving her foot massages every day, and eventually expanded that to having her lie down while I massage her back, hips, neck, scalp, shoulders arms and even hands. I didn't want to be sloppy with it (if I'm going to do something, I want to do it well), so I watched videos on the internet to learn how to massage each of the body parts well. I really love doing this, and seeing the smile on her face while I do it ... I love making her happy. 

I also will give her a pedicure, and occasionally a manicure. She's not as accepting of manicures (I don't know why), but I figure if I can take care of it, nobody should ever see her feet not looking good, so I make sure they look good. That includes taking time to use the nail files, the emery board or ped-egg, and I've learned how to give her toenails good coats with colors that she likes (I don't have a good sense of color coordination, but I'll do her toenails if she will give me some guidance on colors). 

I just love touching her, and making her feel appreciated, and secure. I actually love giving her the "princess treatment." I don't attach any strings to it, but I have to say that she makes a point of making sure I'm VERY well taken care of. It's not one-sided at all. I just love showing her that I love her, even in some ways that aren't really in her "love language." I just don't really relate to not doing that.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

@ shyguy: don't make my jaw drop before trying to eat dinner...pedicure?:allhail: Man. 
@ Southbound: The issues are very complicated indeed. You might have heard the famous experiment (let me nerdy scientist side show)--
Mice were given rewards. If reward follows a behavior (pressing a lever) every time, the behavior increases. If no reward follows, the behavior quickly decreases. 

However, the behaviors occurs MOST FREQUENTLY when the reward happens UNPREDICTABLY! Uncertainty = excitement!

Cough cough, I am not a psychologist. But for some people when a peck on the cheek becomes such a routine, excitement goes away...it's my guess. I know people can do kisses for 60 yrs and remain perfectly happy, of course we are NOT mice.

I also understand perfectly culture plays huge. Many do not show affection publicly. I actually shake my head a bit seeing couples not able to keep their hands off each other at amusement park lines. It always makes me wonder how long they will last going for it every second everywhere. But I have to chase H on the street lest losing him in crowds, it's too much of the other extreme. 

I have risen myself beyond a rodent's logic and hugged and kissed him with no "reward"---but eventually I found out I still have the mentality of Micky....


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Jennifer - you don't really want to fix this do you?

I make up that you are as scared of intimacy as your husband.:scratchhead:


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

FormerNiceGuy said:


> Jennifer - you don't really want to fix this do you?


Who gave you that idea? I am giving him some form of ultimatum. Basically, all these years I was sort of tolerating the way he is as long as he is not negative. When you have a teenager and a toddler, sometimes it's just not worth fighting for human rights. 
As one kid is leaving (really pretty much not in house) and the other one ready for school, I am trying to make it more clear to him I do not desire housemates. 
He doesn't like to give me any massages/rubs, yet many times when he got sore from golf :circle: he asked to "step on his back", where I would actually try to give him a shoulder massage. 
Don't think I'm scared of intimacy--I have to repeatedly ask him to take off shirt during sex! Those buttons on the stupid polo shirt really bug, and when I read "man not taking his shirt off and having sex with a woman is like going to the bathroom", I burst out laughing but vowed to yank off that stupid shirt every time!


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

jennifer1986 said:


> Who gave you that idea?


I am not looking for a fight

But, I make up that you are so close to the situation that you can't see it for what it is.

Let me give you an example: 



jennifer1986 said:


> Don't think I'm scared of intimacy--I have to repeatedly ask him to take off shirt during sex! Those buttons on the stupid polo shirt really bug, and when I read "man not taking his shirt off and having sex with a woman is like going to the bathroom", I burst out laughing but vowed to yank off that stupid shirt every time!


This is not intimacy. Your husband not taking off his shirt during sex is another Problem - yes that is capital "P" Problem.

This is also why cops hate going on domestic calls. Wife calls, tells a bunch of truths about the husband doing bad things, cop shows up, wife attacks cops for "attacking" husband. :scratchhead:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I used to be worse... I played so many games with my wife (she won some I won some)... and I didn't care about the hurt at the time; simply because a part of me, is hardened to the point I wouldn't give a sh-t if my whole world crumbles while I laugh

But she's still with me and she has my intense love, loyalty, devotion and care from me as of this moment. But she earned it by blood, tears and years work...

Personally, I would begin the jealousy game


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

@FormerNiceGuy: Oh I was not looking for a fight and didn't think you were either. That's the problem with forum, tone of voice or humor don't come across. 
I appreciate your pointing out the capital P. There are multiple P's in our lovemaking style, and it boils down to that my H does not really have a clue what I need. He wants me to be happy (that's even more general than sex), but he tries hard to do it HIS ways. 

I wouldn't mind if a cop showed up @ the door and gave my H crap, as long as he/she does not disable/disfigure him. :smthumbup:

@RandomDude: I do not know what "jealousgame" is....


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