# My wife cheated with a friend of mine while she was drunk



## jdr8

It's a classic right? Is there ever a scenario when you should look at it differently?

I'm going to try and be as objective as I can. I have already kicked my wife out of the house, changed the locks and told her I want a divorce. We have a child together so unfortunately it's not as simple as kicking her out and never seeing her again. Some people in my life are saying I shouldn't throw in the towel so easily. Those people being my parents and friends, some of who were involved in this **** fest. 

So this is me trying to be objective. 

My wife is not a drinker. Prior to this she had never been drunk. The farthest she'd go would be a 1-2 drinks once every couple years. In the last 10 years she has probably consumed alcohol 5 times. When my friends and I get together I've encouraged her to drink, but it wasn't her thing. She said it was stupid to drink, to each their own. My wife was raised in a home without any alcohol ever, due to alcoholic family members. 

I never worried about my wife cheating. Literally never. My wife is very quiet and reserved. She doesn't like being around other people. Even though we've been together for 7 years my friends feel like they barely know her. They have barely had conversations with her. She was allegedly raped about 10 years ago by a group of men and that makes her very reserved. She isnt even comfortable hugging my friends or having them touch her (hand on her arm, around her, etc.). She takes an anti-anxiety medication. She rarely goes out (just work, gym and shopping), doesn't talk to many people, doesn't hide her phone or computer, etc. There was not a single worry about her cheating.

3 weeks ago we were planning a weekend get-together/party at our cottage. 10 friends came up (9 men and ones wife) but I ended up being called into work. My wife and friends stayed, which was fine my wife had to stay because it's our cottage and the friends wanted to stay. They had all just driven 3-4 hours to get there. My wife expressed concern and anxiety about being there alone with 9 men, but tries to step out of her comfort zone and stayed. It was completely her choice to stay, I wasn't going to be there so it didn't effect me either way. My friends are great and I had no concerns, everyone who was there I have been close with for nearly two decades. 

4 days ago my wife told me that she slept with a very close friend of mine - of 17 years. Her story, with some collaboration from friends, is:

On Friday she didn't drink at all. On Saturday she started drinking around 8PM, and everyone played card games, board games and drinking games. She drank a lot more than she is use to (8+ drinks), because my friends were encouraging her to drink and if she wasn't a bit tipsy she would be annoyed by their drunk behaviour. She has no tolerance as she isn't a drinker, she's small (100lb, 5'2") and she didn't eat much - her story. They were playing drinking games and she was sitting next to the guy, I'll call him Dan. It was crowded so they were touching each other and the drinking game had some sexual questions. They kept drinking and there was a bit of flirting but nothing that other friends (who were all varying degrees of tipsy to hammered) thought anything of. Around 2am they all wanted to watch a movie so they pulled out the pull out bed/couch in the living room. She laid down and at some point, she doesn't remember when, he sat beside her but on the opposite end. So she was on the left and he was on the right with a lot of space in between. Someone else (friends wife) wanted to sit on the pull out so my wife moved over and was laying right against Dan, and squished between him and the other wife. They were both falling asleep and leaning against each other, confirmed by another friend of mine. Everyone eventually went to their rooms and fell asleep, my other friend said my wife and Dan were still sleeping on the couch together when he went to bed. He thought it was odd because he knows how shy she is but didn't think much of it being tired and drunk. 

My wife and Dan woke up (assumingly after everyone else went to bed) and then she stops giving me as many details. She was still in her bra and jeans. He said she was sexy. They kissed. Had sex for what she claims was less than a minute. They didn't use protection (at first she said they did). He pulled out. They fell asleep together and woke up together, naked. When I asked multiple times if she enjoyed it, I got tears and no verbal answer or a snappy no. For her no answer is what you don't want to hear. She's a **** liar. 

She said that she was tempted to kiss him and once it started she didn't know what to do and went along with it. She said she was too nervous to tell him to stop, I will say that she never speaks her mind around other people. But looking back, there has been some things. She has told me that Dan is the friend of mine that she feels closest too and most comfortable around. For the last 7 years she has been comfortable being home alone with him, but no other friends of mine. It has only happened a few times but it's something to note. During a drinking game they played that night a question came up that said who is the most attractive person in the room, other than yourself and your partner. And she said Dan, noted from a friend of mine. She also had a question that involved taking off some articles of clothing, which she did (sweater and top, left in bra and jeans). There were others that my friend can't remember but remembers being surprised she was playing along. I don't care about that, if it was only that. Playing a game isn't a big deal to me, sticking another **** in her is. 

She isn't calling it rape, and it wasn't. She chose to be there. She didn't stop it. She didn't tell me right away. They didn't use protection. Dan's in a serious relationship. She's married. She's attracted to him and flirted with him that night prior. And prior to this I'd say that he was a really good guy. He is aware of her past (rape), most of my friends are. It really effected her/me/us in the beginning of our relationship and my friends thought she was wierd as hell. 

My wife and Dan are a perfect compliment to each other. Their personalities are exactly what the other needs. The perfect levels of everything to compliment each other. ie) they are both reserved but he will take the first step and she goes along with it. He isn't out there and in your face, which she doesn't like. He's very clingy in relationships and she likes that because she is too. He's adventurous in activities and she likes to go along with that. He's into the same shows, movies and music as she is, her and I do not get along that way. Thinking about it, I can see them really getting along. 

She said she will tell me whatever I want to know, wont hide anything, won't ever talk to him again, wont see him again, wont drink again. But I don't trust her and just see her sucking my friends ****. I think she is telling me what I want to hear, on some things. We have been trying to get pregnant and even though it's unlikely she's get pregnant from that night, the possibility is there. She hasn't agreed to terminate, if a pregnancy does occur. Mine or his, she should. We are in no emotional shape to have another child right now and I sure as **** won't entertain saving the marriage if she got herself knocked up by someone else. 

Word of mouth is she has been talking to Dan since she ****ed him and one friend (Dan's brother) saw them naked in bed together when he went to use the washroom. Everyone knows about it now. Both my wife and Dan are being exiled. Dan said they have only talked about me and the aftermath, and have not seen each other or done anything that could be considered continued cheating. He encourages me to get back with her. Any time I try to talk to her she mostly just cries and apologizes. She said she hasn't talked to Dan. Someone is lying. She is the only likely choice. 

Here's where my mind is. I have doubts that this is the only time she has cheated with him. It's very out of character for her and I can't see her going from never talking to him or having contact with him to ****ing him. The number is different now, but prior to cheating she had been intimate with 2 men including myself. She had never had a ONS or hookup, allegedly. A person doesn't go from 0-10 just like that. 

Our sex life isn't the best. After we had a child 4 years ago her limbo went down the toilet. She's okay with oral generally. Even if she is extremely turned on and we've had a lot of warm up, penetration hurts her every time without fail. No matter how relaxed she is it hurts her. She says it feels like a muscle stretching. She clenches her teeth and digs her fingers into me. Based on that, she would have had plenty of time to stop what they were doing. Dan most likely would have noticed her reaction and would have stopped, unless he already was use to it because this has been going on a lot longer. 

One friend (Dan's brother) saw them naked on the couch and everyone else saw them cuddling on the couch after flirting. That is a lot of witnesses and a lot of mouthes to blab. Maybe that's why she has told the "truth" now. 

Dan has been a close friend of mine for 17 years. Most of our group had been close since high school. A normal, sane person doesn't just decide to sleep with his friends wife on a whim. There has to be more buildup. His long term girlfriend conveniently wasn't there with no reason why. 

Call me a ****, that's ok, but my mind goes further. She avoids being around my male friends. She avoids drinking. Perhaps the actual reason is because she made a drinking mistake in the past and doesn't trust herself. She claims to have been raped 10 years ago by a group of men. She said they were arrested and charged, I've seen no physical proof of that. We never talk about it. We did in the beginning of our relationship, but it hasn't come up in years.

My wife started going to the gym about a year ago. She's in great shape and is self confident, before she wasn't. She lost around 40 pounds, which has puts her at around 100 pounds. She use to go to a woman's only gym, because she felt more comfortable there. About 4 months ago she started going to a normal gym. He reason was its significantly closer (2 minutes compared to 35), cheaper, and better equipment. It just happened to be a transition that occurred when she had reached her body goal. Dan does not go to the gym, but she could be meeting someone else there. 

Our marriage has been good. We get along, we don't fight, we don't have financial problems or scheduling conflicts. Our only real stressor lately is trying to get pregnant again but its not that bad and more of a not preventing a pregnancy and see what happens. Like I said, I didn't see this coming. Neither did my family or friends. Everyone is shocked. 

The actions are very out of character for her. Which is why most people are saying to either let it go or try to work on it. But does the excuse "I was drunk, I wasn't thinking" really have any merit, whether they are heavy drinkers or extremely light drinkers? I still cannot see her going from 0 contact with him to ****ing him. Even if she did, she still cheated. 

Don't even get me started on all the friendships that have been obliterated. ****ing my wife is unforgivable. Seeing someone **** my wife or act as she did without telling me is getting there. Numerous relationships blown up for what? It can't have been for a ONS.

But my wife is insistent that she had never prior cheated, on anyone, and hid nothing in the past. And I'm sitting her like a dumb ass trying to let my wife use the "I was drunk" excuse.


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## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> I have already kicked my wife out of the house, changed the locks and told her I want a divorce.


Who gives a **** about her tale of woe?!? "Poor me, I let some dude **** me."

Less talk more action. Make an appointment with an attorney and file ASAP.

You're just having a weak moment, it will pass. Your buddy ****ed your wife!!

Good luck living that **** down if you take her back. Walk bro, don't be a chump.


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## chillymorn69

I call bs the ****ed and liked it

File and send her down the road then kick your friends ass


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## xMadame

She is not a drinker and he is. Where I live he would be charged with rape. She was in no condition to consent. He probably knew what he was doing. 


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## Diana7

To be honest that weekend was a disaster waiting to happen. 10 men, 2 women, lots of drink, games that involved flirty questions and taking clothes off??? Then you get called away which presumably you knew was a possibility??? Good grief.


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## aine

So sorry, this is a terrible situation but it absolutely shows how alcohol lowers inhibitions and things happen that ordinarily would not. 
This is totally on her but you left your wife with a pack of nine men who love to drink and party, to my mind that is asking for trouble esp considering her past. Personally, I would be pissed if my H did that to me.
Your friends are not your friends, they should have put a stop to that **** immediately and they did not. She is not a drinker, obviously was egged on to drink more and ****ed up big time. I dont know whether this can be resolved, I would suggest continued separation and maybe MC, but it depends on whether you can face her, him and all your friends (who are not friends of your marriage at all).

If she was raped in the past by a group of men, then she will have hang ups and its surprising she would allow herself to be in a similar environment, (i.e. all men). She should go to IC.

Whether there is something going one between her and Dan from before, well your friends probably know, you may be the last one to know.


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## SunCMars

wAlcohol did not 'cause' her to cheat, it helped her. No doubt.

Alcohol releases the constrained, reserved 'inner' person.

The fact that others saw them naked and cuddling shows intent and contempt to proper conduct.

Yes, it was a sin of opportunity. You being called away to work gave them the time and place.

Sorry, this was a brazen act, done in front of many of the other friends.

And I agree, they have been intimate before. Maybe not PIV, but oral and hugging and kissing.

If something makes sense, it likely has legs. Saying PIV hurts with you may have been a way so as to not cheat on POSOM.

To shame you in front of all your friends; this deserves divorce papers.

She has deeper feelings for POSOM than you. Her actions that night proved it. She considered his sexual needs over your' potential tortured heart.

She may have subconsciously sabotaged her marriage by doing this. A desperate call for marital reprieve; purposely sinking her marriage.


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

Drop her. I'd be willing to bet that you susspisions about her and Dan are true. If it wasn't going to happen that night it would have likely happend eventually eve if it was only once. 

You may have been able to sweep this under the rug if no onr else knew but everyone does and just seeing them will remind you of what happend 

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## jdr8

BetrayedDad said:


> Who gives a **** about her tale of woe?!? "Poor me, I let some dude **** me."
> 
> Less talk more action. Make an appointment with an attorney and file ASAP.
> 
> You're just having a weak moment, it will pass. Your buddy ****ed your wife!!
> 
> Good luck living that **** down if you take her back. Walk bro, don't be a chump.


I have hopes that this is a weak moment and I will go back to knowing without a doubt that she is not someone I want to be married to. The people in my life who are telling me to give her a second chance are throwing me off.


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## jdr8

xMadame said:


> She is not a drinker and he is. Where I live he would be charged with rape. She was in no condition to consent. He probably knew what he was doing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would like to say that I know him well and he would never do that, however I also didn't think he'd **** my wife. Getting her drunk to **** her, however, I cannot see happening. They were both drunk, can't rape each other. She isn't a drinker, that is true, and he drinks quite often. He can handle himself better, but that still isn't any excuse. 

My parents are of the opinion that she was taken advantage of and manipulated. Perhaps it's possible but my wife still allowed it to go on.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I am not much of a drinker. 1 or 2 maybe a year. 

The very few times I've been drunk I still knew what I was doing. 

Drinking can amplify bad traits that are already there. It doesn't create new ones ime. 

Poor boundaries is poor boundaries. 

It may lower inhibitions but you still have control over yourself. 

And your friend sucks and took advantage but it's still a 2 person event. 

If she was black out drunk or passed out then it'd be different.


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## Satya

I'd dump all of those supposed "friends" pronto.

Then I'd call Saul.

Then I'd put her stuff in garbage bags and throw them on the lawn.

Then I'd take a good hard look at why you think it was OK to leave your wife with 9 men in a cottage when the alcohol was flowing!?


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## jdr8

Diana7 said:


> To be honest that weekend was a disaster waiting to happen. 10 men, 2 women, lots of drink, games that involved flirty questions and taking clothes off??? Then you get called away which presumably you knew was a possibility??? Good grief.


It was a group of friends hanging out, something we have done many, many times. I trusted my wife and my friends, and didn't think there was anything to worry about. I expected my wife to act as she normally does in those scenarios and be reserved. Normally she is quiet, doesn't drink at all, and quite often just stays in our room. That is how she acted on Friday, basically sat in our room all night. I didn't expect her to drink at all, let alone a lot. If what I understand is correct, the only one who took any clothes off was my wife and Dan's brother. 

No, being called into work wasn't a possibility. It happened, but I never get called in on weekends. The only reason it happened was because two other employees decided to quit without any notice or warning - just no showed leaving my company up the creek without a paddle. 

Aside from my wife, we have all been very close for around 17 years. We have had many parties and, aside from one occasion unrelated to me, nothing has ever happened.


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## Marc878

Alcohol is just an excuse she knew what she was doing. Besides you got some lies upfront.

Trying to make a good cover story is all the verbiage is.


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## Rubix Cubed

jdr8 said:


> I have hopes that this is a weak moment and I will go back to knowing without a doubt that she is not someone I want to be married to. The people in my life who are telling me to give her a second chance are throwing me off.


 Those other people have no idea what she is putting you through. Ignore them. She ****ed your friend and waited 3 weeks to tell you. You can bet the farm there is more to this story than you know. File immediately and keep the 180 up with her. No discussions except about the kids. Divorce issues can be handled by the lawyers.


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## jdr8

aine said:


> So sorry, this is a terrible situation but it absolutely shows how alcohol lowers inhibitions and things happen that ordinarily would not.
> This is totally on her but you left your wife with a pack of nine men who love to drink and party, to my mind that is asking for trouble esp considering her past. Personally, I would be pissed if my H did that to me.
> Your friends are not your friends, they should have put a stop to that **** immediately and they did not. She is not a drinker, obviously was egged on to drink more and ****ed up big time. I dont know whether this can be resolved, I would suggest continued separation and maybe MC, but it depends on whether you can face her, him and all your friends (who are not friends of your marriage at all).
> 
> If she was raped in the past by a group of men, then she will have hang ups and its surprising she would allow herself to be in a similar environment, (i.e. all men). She should go to IC.
> 
> Whether there is something going one between her and Dan from before, well your friends probably know, you may be the last one to know.


It was my wife's decision to stay or go. I had to leave and she 100% had the option of leaving with me. She was unsure about staying but decided to. She was uncomfortable staying and expressed concern over that. She is uncomfortable being around a group of men when I'm there, it would be worse when I'm not there. She choose to stay. However, yes if her past is true than she should have been unable to stay with them, which in part makes me question the validity of her past. 

I didn't leave my wife with a "pack of 9 men". I left my wife with a group of my very close friends. 

However, I agree that when my friends became aware of what was happening they should have put a stop to it. Drunk or not, some were definitely aware of what was going on. Regardless of what happens to this marriage, I don't think most of those friendships can continue. 

My friends, myself included, have been known to hide infidelity from another friend. Years ago, I cannot recall how many anymore but quite a few, 2 friends who were at that party felt each other up while the woman was engaged. No one said a word because we didn't feel it was our place to say anything. She's married now and the other woman who was at the party, her husband was there as well, and the man she cheated with years ago. To my knowledge her husband never found out. Though feeling each other up and ****ing are on different levels, it still goes to show how well something can be hidden. If something has been going on, there is a possibility my friends know and have kept their lips sealed. If that is the case and I ever find out, all of those friendships are ceased.


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## Jus260

Rubix Cubed said:


> Those other people have no idea what she is putting you through. Ignore them. She ****ed your friend and waited 3 weeks to tell you. You can bet the farm there is more to this story than you know. File immediately and keep the 180 up with her. No discussions except about the kids. Divorce issues can be handled by the lawyers.



I hate commenting on these infidelity threads because I typically don't know what the hell I'm talking about. You are right about the other people. They aren't the ones who have to live in this sh*t. It's easy for someone on the outside to tell you to get over it when they can hang up the phone or go home to sleep in their nice cozy bed. No one is going to tell me what to think. I will decide whether or not I can get over something. The OP knows whether or not this is a deal breaker. I have a hard enough time getting a song out of my head. There is no way I could get over this.


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## jdr8

This was stupid to post and waste so much time doing. My wife is a ***** and of course she doesn't deserve a second chance.


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## Marc878

Sorry man. It's worse than the death of a close relative.

Your marriage was just murdered.


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## SunCMars

Satya said:


> I'd dump all of those supposed "friends" pronto.
> 
> Then I'd call Saul.
> 
> Then I'd put her stuff in garbage bags and throw them on the lawn.
> 
> Then I'd take a good hard look at why you think it was OK to leave your wife with 9 men in a cottage when the alcohol was flowing!?


YES!!

Hideous THIS!

And one man short of a repeat performance, one claimed so many years ago.

History repeated itself, it did.

Shamed beyond reason with ten souls present. 

From the original 'odd' count [10 + 1] to even this outplay [9 +1]... changed the dynamic the second 'run through'.

DeJa Vu.....a vile familiar wind visited that cottage, that night.

Her, your' Dear, taken twice...... first time by force, second by want.


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## manfromlamancha

Is she willing to take a poly ? This will give you a better basis to make your next decision on.


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## *Deidre*

So the cliff notes are that your wife isn't a drinker, but got drunk. Felt ''uncomfortable'' around a bunch of men, but stayed and had sex with a man. Is acting like she didn't want to do it, but she did.

I'm seeing a pattern here. I'd divorce her, she sounds like a child who can't take responsibility for her actions. One should be able to leave his/her spouse alone for a few hours with 1000 people from the opposite sex, without worrying they'll choose to have sex in their absence. 

Where do you people find these crazy people to be married to?? 

Your life will get better, when she's out of it.


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## Dyokemm

Wow.....sorry ALL of your supposed friends ended up being a group of useless tools.

If this had been a situation with my friends I would have found out about the cheating from hearing how the POSOM got his a** beat by my other friends when they saw something going down.

Dump them all.....they are worthless sh*ts.


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## VladDracul

*Deidre* said:


> So the cliff notes are that your wife isn't a drinker, but got drunk. Felt ''uncomfortable'' around a bunch of men, but stayed and had sex with a man. Is acting like she didn't want to do it, but she did.


The only thing I can possibly add to your excellent analysis is she doesn't do this stuff when her husband is around.  With him out of the way, it was a perfect storm. Perhaps a little too perfect. (in any case, you damn well know some of these cats watched the grand finale after seeing the build up. Might even participated) By JD's own admission, these "boys being boys" was not uncommon at their get togethers.


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## *Deidre*

Dyokemm said:


> Wow.....sorry ALL of your supposed friends ended up being a group of useless tools.
> 
> If this had been a situation with my friends I would have found out about the cheating from hearing how the POSOM got his a** beat by my other friends when they saw something going down.
> 
> Dump them all.....they are worthless sh*ts.


Why do men want to beat up other men, when the wives are willing participants? :scratchhead: She wasn't being assaulted. She willingly cheated with the guy. 

He should get rid of these friends, but I think that his wife was perfectly capable of leaving the situation, she just didn't want to.


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## *Deidre*

VladDracul said:


> The only thing I can possibly add to your excellent analysis is she doesn't do this stuff when her husband is around.  With him out of the way, it was a perfect storm. Perhaps a little too perfect. (in any case, you damn well know some of these cats watched the grand finale after seeing the build up. Might even participated) By JD's own admission, these "boys being boys" was not uncommon at their get togethers.


She just sounds like someone who can't own what she did. ''I never drink.'' ''I'd never cheat.'' ''I felt uncomfortable.'' ''I didn't want to kiss him.'' ''I didn't want to be half naked.'' lol 

''Oops, I just had sex. How did that happen?'' :scratchhead:

I would rather be alone for the rest of my life, than with someone like this.


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## Dyokemm

*Deidre* said:


> Why do men want to beat up other men, when the wives are willing participants? :scratchhead: She wasn't being assaulted. She willingly cheated with the guy.
> 
> He should get rid of these friends, but I think that his wife was perfectly capable of leaving the situation, she just didn't want to.


This would happen amongst my pals because of the backstabbing of a friend......would happen no matter what type of betrayal it was....infidelity, stealing, or whatever.

Amongst my long term friends, rat-f*cking your compadres is a big no-no.

Their only care about the WW would be to tell the BH to dump the worthless cheating sl*t ASAP.


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## WorkingOnMe

You already have a crappy sex life. I wouldn't consider the shame and pain of reconciling with your 'friend's' leftovers just to go back to what was. Have some standards. 


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## *Deidre*

Dyokemm said:


> This would happen amongst my pals because of the backstabbing of a friend......would happen no matter what type of betrayal it was....infidelity, stealing, or whatever.
> 
> Amongst my long term friends, rat-f*cking your compadres is a big no-no.
> 
> Their only care about the WW would be to tell the BH to dump the worthless cheating sl*t ASAP.


That's interesting, and it makes sense. I think that people see what they want to see with toxic friends and partners. It is more likely that there are red flags we overlook because it's hard to admit that we are being played by people, until it's too late. And then like now, the OP's friend betrayed him with his own wife. But, most people who do that, aren't good friends in other ways.


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## WorkingOnMe

Dyokemm said:


> Wow.....sorry ALL of your supposed friends ended up being a group of useless tools.
> 
> 
> 
> If this had been a situation with my friends I would have found out about the cheating from hearing how the POSOM got his a** beat by my other friends when they saw something going down.
> 
> 
> 
> Dump them all.....they are worthless sh*ts.




Yup. Everyone who saw is an enabler and needs to be cut out of your life forever. They're not your friends. Every one of them betrayed your friendship. 


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## Satya

jdr8 said:


> It was my wife's decision to stay or go. I had to leave and she 100% had the option of leaving with me. *She was unsure about staying but decided to. She was uncomfortable staying and expressed concern over that. She is uncomfortable being around a group of men when I'm there, it would be worse when I'm not there.* She choose to stay. However, yes if her past is true than she should have been unable to stay with them, which in part makes me question the validity of her past.


I have a concern with the bolded, if your wife is really as "waifish" as you describe her. For women who are quiet, shy, reserved, and rarely speak their mind or are almost never assertive, this is as good as a shout out to you that she should NOT have been alone with them. She would lack the ability to say a hard no to things like peer pressure. Alcohol consumption is by no means an excuse for what occurred, but the issue behind it was that she did not have the resolve necessary to say no once her tolerance level had been reached. You being there would have provided the kind of mate guarding she clearly needed. I suggest she get some counseling around learning boundaries and exacting them with confidence. It would no doubt help her in any future relationships. 



jdr8 said:


> My friends, *myself included,* have been known to hide infidelity from another friend. Years ago, I cannot recall how many anymore but quite a few, 2 friends who were at that party felt each other up while the woman was engaged. *No one said a word because we didn't feel it was our place to say anything.* She's married now and the other woman who was at the party, her husband was there as well, and the man she cheated with years ago. To my knowledge her husband never found out. Though feeling each other up and ****ing are on different levels, it still goes to show how well something can be hidden. If something has been going on, there is a possibility my friends know and have kept their lips sealed. If that is the case and I ever find out, all of those friendships are ceased.


I guess that came back to bite you, but I commend your honesty. Not quite the same when you're on the receiving end of the deception, is it? This just highlights even more that your friends need to be ex-friends and you need to consider shedding their deceptive influence from your own life and living a life of honesty. A true friend tells you what you need to hear, even if it is unpleasant.


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## Emerging Buddhist

jdr8 said:


> It was my wife's decision to stay or go. I had to leave and she 100% had the option of leaving with me. She was unsure about staying but decided to. She was uncomfortable staying and expressed concern over that. She is uncomfortable being around a group of men when I'm there, it would be worse when I'm not there. She choose to stay. However, yes if her past is true than she should have been unable to stay with them, which in part makes me question the validity of her past.
> 
> I didn't leave my wife with a "pack of 9 men". I left my wife with a group of my very close friends.
> 
> However, I agree that when my friends became aware of what was happening they should have put a stop to it. Drunk or not, some were definitely aware of what was going on. Regardless of what happens to this marriage, I don't think most of those friendships can continue.
> 
> *My friends, myself included, have been known to hide infidelity from another friend.* Years ago, I cannot recall how many anymore but quite a few, 2 friends who were at that party felt each other up while the woman was engaged. No one said a word because we didn't feel it was our place to say anything. She's married now and the other woman who was at the party, her husband was there as well, and the man she cheated with years ago. To my knowledge her husband never found out. Though feeling each other up and ****ing are on different levels, it still goes to show how well something can be hidden. If something has been going on, there is a possibility my friends know and have kept their lips sealed. If that is the case and I ever find out, all of those friendships are ceased.


So you yourself were part of this group to hide a level of infidelity before and things "worked out"... why were you surprised at this model of accepted behavior with you? Perhaps it would have been wise to leave these people behind years ago... now it a good time to choose what you want in friendships from this point forward.

It seems you have a fence under you...if it was premeditated with prior relationship in motion, then it's done. If it was a one time perfect storm of broken moments, then something might be salvageable... is this so?

Would a polygraph satisfy that for you?


----------



## aine

jdr8 said:


> It was my wife's decision to stay or go. I had to leave and she 100% had the option of leaving with me. She was unsure about staying but decided to. She was uncomfortable staying and expressed concern over that. She is uncomfortable being around a group of men when I'm there, it would be worse when I'm not there. She choose to stay. However, yes if her past is true than she should have been unable to stay with them, which in part makes me question the validity of her past.
> 
> I didn't leave my wife with a "pack of 9 men". I left my wife with a group of my very close friends.
> 
> However, I agree that when my friends became aware of what was happening they should have put a stop to it. Drunk or not, some were definitely aware of what was going on. Regardless of what happens to this marriage, I don't think most of those friendships can continue.
> 
> My friends, myself included, have been known to hide infidelity from another friend. Years ago, I cannot recall how many anymore but quite a few, 2 friends who were at that party felt each other up while the woman was engaged. No one said a word because we didn't feel it was our place to say anything. She's married now and the other woman who was at the party, her husband was there as well, and the man she cheated with years ago. To my knowledge her husband never found out. Though feeling each other up and ****ing are on different levels, it still goes to show how well something can be hidden. If something has been going on, there is a possibility my friends know and have kept their lips sealed. If that is the case and I ever find out, all of those friendships are ceased.


Im sorry you are here, but if your wife is shy like you said, she may have felt she could not say no, esp since you were hosting the event.

Sadly if the boundaries within the group of 'friends' is to cover up such things then what has happened is inevitable to my mind. Personally, I will not have friends who will not protect my marriage. I do have family members who are unfaithful but I cannot get rid of them out of my life, but they know exactly how I feel about them.
I think you need to take lots of time to settle down and reevaluate your marriage and what YOU want moving forward.


----------



## aine

*Deidre* said:


> Why do men want to beat up other men, when the wives are willing participants? :scratchhead: She wasn't being assaulted. She willingly cheated with the guy.
> 
> He should get rid of these friends, but I think that his wife was perfectly capable of leaving the situation, she just didn't want to.[/QUOT
> 
> Yes but the question is, was she in a position to say 'no' 8 drinks for someone who does not drink is alot and I am wondering whether she was actually 'with it' or not. For your so called friend to take advantage like that, is really appalling, these men are not 'friends' and sound like a bunch of frat boys, I will still refer to them as a 'pack'!


----------



## VladDracul

Here's the bottom line the husband in this story should consider beyond her getting drunk and sleeping with a friend. Respect for one's spouse is premier in marriage and critical for romantic (sexual) interest. This is especially true of women. (don't believe me? ask them and kind of explains JDs poor sex life) The girl in this drama removed clothing, flirted, snuggled, and screwed "Dan" obviously and readily visible to the other occupants. Does this sound like a woman who respects her husband? It's like my uncle would say, "When they said they saw beaver at the cottage , they didn't mean the ones down at the lake".


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## Andy1001

You need to get rid of your wife and your friends.These guys are supposed to be Your closest friends but not one of them had the decency to tell you about your wife screwing Dan.
Just remember this,every time you are around them you will know that they knew and probably encouraged your wife's fling with Dan and were having a good laugh at you behind your back.It seems in this case Dan is the man and you are expected to suck it up.
I would be interested to know how far from home this cottage is and how often she and Dan have visited alone.No woman,no matter how drunk ****s another guy while there are a load of other people literally enjoying the show unless there were a few more participants that you haven't been told about.
I also wonder is this cottage the scene of some other little soirées that you know nothing about.
Oh and make sure to let Dan's girlfriend know what happened,you know exactly what it feels like to be cheated on and it's only fair that she knows who she is dating.


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## arbitrator

*Alcohol, while being an excuse of convenience, is certainly no alibi for bonafide adultery, more especially given her "fear" of men!

Now it's time for her to fear something much more common sense ~ the separation and divorce arena! Get to your lawyers office post haste!

And if these are the people that you choose to "hang with" and richly refer to as "friends," then you may need to lose them as well! 

"Friends" don't usually take their hardened appendages out of their pants and then assault their friend's wives with ~ much less encourage, and then drunkenly gawk at such activity as some kind of a live sex show, all for their selfish, prurient interests!*


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## Mario Kempes

Jdr8, have you spoked to/screamed at Dan about it?

You can be sure that he and your wife have "an agreed version" of what happened but If it was me, I'd contact him to let him know that I would rearrange his face next time we met!

I doubt if this was their first rodeo. Might she have been reluctant to stay that night because she was afraid that she'd slip and that things might happen that others would pick up on, as happened?

Personally, there's no way I could forgive my wife for doing this. It would be bad enough if she ****ed a stranger behind your back, but what she did takes it to a completely different level!

I feel your pain and I wish you well.


----------



## *Deidre*

aine said:


> *Deidre* said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do men want to beat up other men, when the wives are willing participants? :scratchhead: She wasn't being assaulted. She willingly cheated with the guy.
> 
> He should get rid of these friends, but I think that his wife was perfectly capable of leaving the situation, she just didn't want to.[/QUOT
> 
> Yes but the question is, was she in a position to say 'no' 8 drinks for someone who does not drink is alot and I am wondering whether she was actually 'with it' or not. For your so called friend to take advantage like that, is really appalling, these men are not 'friends' and sound like a bunch of frat boys, I will still refer to them as a 'pack'!
> 
> 
> 
> We need to stop pretending like we women don't know how to think for ourselves in these situations, and we need a man to rescue us all the time. If he assaulted her, of course I'd feel differently. He didn't. She cheated on her husband and if we want to blame it on alcohol, then we could blame drunk driving on the same thing. ''I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing.'' It's not an excuse. Being shy isn't an excuse, and I actually don't believe that. For a ''shy non drinker'', she really did a 180 that night. lol
> 
> I don't think she went there with the intent to cheat, but you should be able to leave your spouse alone without thinking he/she is gonna sleep with your friend.
Click to expand...


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## Tatsuhiko

She chose to do this. The worst part is that she got all hot and wet for Dan, enough so that sex with him wasn't painful. Too bad she can't muster this same level of sexual interest in you. Dump her and dump all of these lowlife friends. She can tell her next boyfriend the sob story about how she was "raped" by Dan.


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## NJ2

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest marriage counselling and individual counselling for you both before you decide to call it quits. Thats if you still love her...some guys cant get over it -some guys can with counselling and time. 

For your friends to say give her another chance (and they know her better than the posters here) they must think your marriage is worth saving. They must think that this was a one time thing that happened because her inhibitions and resolve were severely weakened by too much alcohol. They must think this she is worth it.

There are no excuses for what she did. She knows that. You know that. But, I think you are jumping to conclusions when you are thinking that she was a calculated vixen in this instance. Her insecurity from previous body issues, her anxiety, needs not being met, the fact that the friend is one of the rare people she has managed to feel confident around were a bit of a brewing storm when you throw large amounts of alcohol on the fire.

If she almost never drinks and had 7-8 drinks that particular night she would be out of her right mind drunk. 7-8 drinks is considered binge drinking and many risks are elevated including sexual indiscretions. My guess is she would have been quite sloppy black out drunk. She weighs almost nothing. 

This doesnt sound like its an ongoing emotional/physical affair but rather a crush that was consummated in an embarrassing drunken mess.
She sounds remorseful, the exposure would have killed the crush, and she is unlikely to ever drink like that again. 

I've been on both sides so I'm less likely to jump to the big D without trying first to fix it IF that what you BOTH want....


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Just read this thread. Ouch. First why in the world would one leave their wife with nine men in a cottage, friends or no friends. I question your judgement. Secondly,from what you post it seems your wife has had a thing for Dan. Most likely this was not the first rodeo for her with Dan. Most likely this has been going on behind your back for some time. My intuition tells me she confessed as their were eight other witnesses to her shenanigans and she was worried about you finding out from one of the eight.Very seldom does a cheater tell you 100% of the truth initially.

If you should change your mind to R, a polygraph is a must for your peace of mind.


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## manfromlamancha

This happened 3 weeks ago. But she only told you about it 4 days ago. Why ? Did you ask her ?

And your "friends" all knew about it but didn't say anything. Instead they felt free to go ahead and play these drinking/clothes shedding games! I am going to say that this has been going on a lot longer. And your "friends" have known a lot longer. They (your WW and POSOM) saw your being called into work as a chance to do what they have been doing before and because the other "friends" already knew about it, they felt free to do what they liked including your wife drinking and getting drunk.

She got drunk because it probably heightened the sensation! Not because she can't handle her drink and it made her lose her inhibitions.

You really need to get to the truth - and this involves questioning your "friends" there as well as perhaps a poly for both your "wife" and maybe her POSOM too!


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## WorkingOnMe

I have my doubts about it being only Dan. This scenario has all the makings of a lost the game free for all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJW

Personally, I don't think there are any "questions" that need to be asked. The "answers" are already in evidence.



Rubix Cubed said:


> You can bet the farm there is more to this story than you know.


Yep.

The only two things remaining to do are:

1) waste your "friends" like used kleenexes.

2) get a barracuda lawyer and make sure you take your assets with you on your way out to find a decent, moral, upright woman to be your wife.


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## Middle of Everything

Mario Kempes said:


> Jdr8, have you spoked to/screamed at Dan about it?


My guess would be "NO".

While OP's wife is very much to blame in this so is "Dan" and all of his friends. But he seems to bristle when others question Dan and his friends. How dare you impugn Dans honor? He wouldnt knowingly get a girl very drunk to have his way with her. 

But when it comes to was his wife sexually assaulted/raped years ago? "Eh, who knows. I think she is a liar."

So while Dan and Wife are both pieces of crap that used alcohol as an excuse to hold a live hide the sausage show, we can see maybe why it happened.

OP cares/cared more for his D-bag "friends" than he ever did his wife.

Divorce and find new friends.


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## VladDracul

It strikes me as odd the principle female character is this drama tends to "let her hair down" around groups of men, especially when her SO is not around. I'd like to see more development in the inquiry of the first "rape" by a group of men. I wonder if this group will turn out to be friends/acquaintances of her SO at that time. Perhaps when it come out, it'll turn out to be an old fashion gang bang.


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## snerg

Couple of interesting issues from this/

1) Wife is a cheater
2) Wife is a liar
3) Wife will hide the truth
4) Dan is a turd
5) All your "friends" that were at the cabin are toxic

You must go business beast mode.

This has to be a hostile divestment.
Get her out of you life. No contact except in case of your kid.
You "Friends" - gone. Let them get another wife to have a fun time with.

You:
1) Pick better friends
2) Pick a better class of woman to associate with(this is harsh one because you already know you have been dealing with a cheat and liar for an unknown time)


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## TDSC60

I agree with Vlad. The "gang rape" is questionable now.

Alcohol will serve to loosen inhibitions, but cannot eliminate any moral convictions a person has. A person will not steal simply because they get drunk. Likewise, a person will not cheat just because they get drunk. The ability and desire has to be there already. She was conscious enough to remove her top in front of the group. She was conscious enough to remove all her clothes in bed with Dan. She was conscious enough to have sex with him. Alcohol did not cause this. Her inhibitions were relaxed by the alcohol but not eliminated. She was conscious and lucid enough to know what she was doing. The alcohol just helped her not care about the consequences or the morality. Even drunk, she could have stopped it at any point.


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## 5Creed

OP you covered up infidelity and colluded with your friends to do so in the past. Now you are the victim and did find out and you seem to be surprised and you are but only because it happened to you. Would you participate in another cover-up if this involved another friend and his wife? Ask yourself what the hell kind of people you are surrounding yourself with. I get it; high school buddies and all but really?!?


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## Primrose

Of course it's possible to drink so much that you black out and do not recall your actions. I've been there before and waking up the next morning, not knowing how you got home, is a scary, sobering feeling. But your wife remembered way too much to have been in such a state. She recalls removing clothing during a drinking game, scooting over on the pull out so the other woman could sit by her (and mentioning how she was now in very close proximity to "Dan"). When you are black out intoxicated, you don't remember these little details. So I do not buy that she was not able to consent. 

It also rubs me the wrong way that she is the reserved, shy woman you claim to be around you, but once you are gone she suddenly will sow her wild oats? Truth be told, I think you are just uncovering the real woman you married. 

It's up to you whether or not you can reconcile. I won't judge you for your decision. You just have to decide if you can get past the mind movies, and the knowledge that this wasn't some random hook up, but with one of your closest friends.


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## GusPolinski

5Creed said:


> OP you covered up infidelity and colluded with your friends to do so in the past. Now you are the victim and did find out and you seem to be surprised and you are but only because it happened to you. Would you participate in another cover-up if this involved another friend and his wife? Ask yourself what the hell kind of people you are surrounding yourself with. I get it; high school buddies and all but really?!?


Exactly.


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## Diana7

jdr8 said:


> It was a group of friends hanging out, something we have done many, many times. I trusted my wife and my friends, and didn't think there was anything to worry about. I expected my wife to act as she normally does in those scenarios and be reserved. Normally she is quiet, doesn't drink at all, and quite often just stays in our room. That is how she acted on Friday, basically sat in our room all night. I didn't expect her to drink at all, let alone a lot. If what I understand is correct, the only one who took any clothes off was my wife and Dan's brother.
> 
> No, being called into work wasn't a possibility. It happened, but I never get called in on weekends. The only reason it happened was because two other employees decided to quit without any notice or warning - just no showed leaving my company up the creek without a paddle.
> 
> Aside from my wife, we have all been very close for around 17 years. We have had many parties and, aside from one occasion unrelated to me, nothing has ever happened.


When drink is involved anything can happen, Boundaries are so important, and where are all the partners for all these men??? Or are they all single???


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## chillymorn69

silver lining.

now you can get out of your crappy no sex marriage with a clear conscious.

as for your friend. maybe he will keep her ,but thats ok because once a cheater always a cheater so karma will catch up with him sooner or later.


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## MAJDEATH

If she really was sexually assaulted as a young woman, this can mess with her head in weird ways
My W was also the victim of SA and it took her a long time to process it and deal. Along the way, the PTSD manifested as avoiding the opposite sex, promiscuous behavior, weight gain, weight loss, financial restraint, overspending, etc. And if it was gang rape, its even worse. Is she in counseling?


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## TAMAT

jdr8,

What I suspect is that her going to the gym and losing weight a year ago or so was triggered by an emotional affair, perhaps with "Dan" perhaps with someone else. Emotional affairs start out slowly and get progressively larger and larger. So while the physical affair may have only happened 5 or 6 times the lead in to it was likely bigger than she has confessed to. 

She may have confessed because this is the first time they had unprotected sex which could result in pregnancy, and she now HAS to confess.

Don't decide to end the marriage or continue it until your WW has taken a polygraph, you can't afford for more details to trickle truth out a year or 5 years from now.Tell her that you know there is alot more to this than she has confessed and she needs to confess EVERYTHING now. Her confession should not cancel the polygraph however.

Tamat


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## LosingHim

I know we all want to “hang the cheater” here, but for Gods sake, take a look at some things:

1)	She rarely to never drinks
2)	She weighs roughly 100 pounds
3)	She is uncomfortable around men and groups
4)	She is on anti-anxiety meds (surprised no one else caught on to that one) 

None of that excuses the fact that she cheated and that she and Dan are scum. However, you left your wife, who’d been gang raped and doesn’t drink alcohol with 9 other men. I don’t care if they were your friends or not. A group of couples? Maybe. But all men? Whom you knew would be drinking heavily and had hid infidelity before? Come on. 

8 drinks for a woman who never drinks, weighs 100 pounds and takes anxiety meds is a recipe for DISASTER. Most anxiety meds increase sensitivity to alcohol. Most of them suppress your respiratory system and combined with alcohol can stop you from breathing. I used to take valium. The ONE time I drank after taking it, I had 1 beer that felt like 6. And *I* can handle 8 drinks. While it appears she was mostly lucid as she does remember some details, if the amount of alcohol she drank is accurate, she wasn’t in her right mind. It by no means excuses it, that’s not what I’m saying. But it seems obvious your wife was a different person that night. You’d said yourself that you had no reason to think she’d cheat before. I don’t care about going to the gym and losing 40 pounds. I yo yo with my weight and it doesn’t mean I’m cheating every time I lose weight. Many people just discover that exercise is healthy and addicting. 

I don’t think her and Dan have been at it before. I’m not saying you have to stay with her, and I’m not saying what they did was ok. But she DID tell you, your friends don’t exactly sound like the most upstanding people and if your wife is as reserved, shy and awkward as you say, you never should have left her with a group of 9 drunk men.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Losinghim- I agree with you. 

It's a horrible situation for everyone involved. 

I am also a shy, reserved girl. I have a hard time saying no. Peer pressure gets to me and I often give in to things I don't want to do. Even moreso when I'm tipsy, in a group, scared or altered in anyway. 

This is why I don't drink and why I only surround myself with people I trust. Ultimately she knew what she was doing. She is responsible for her own behavior. It is just a horrible situation for her too and I agree she should have never been put or left in that situation. I would not allow myself to be.


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## ButtPunch

She's no victim

She cheated.

End of story.


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## *Deidre*

It's interesting how no one ever sees men as victims when these same exact scenarios are posted here. If her husband was hanging out in a house full of women all night, and they all got drunk, and he slept with someone...no one would be calling him a victim. Why do we think women are victims all the time? I'm not a victim ...if I choose to make bad choices, it's on me. If someone rapes me, that's different. But, if I willingly get drunk and sleep with a guy, other than my husband, it's on me. We're adults, not children who need instructions before we go to a party. If you're married to someone who needs constant ''supervision,'' you might be married to the wrong person.


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## badmemory

jdr8,

A spouse's cheating is difficult enough to get past. But your wife's infidelity is not the normal type that's shrowded in secrecy. This is a very public humiliation for you, since it involves your male friends. I would imagine that humiliation is as bad or worse than the hurt itself. In a way, you must feel embarrassed to reconcile, knowing what your friends know, even if that's what you'd otherwise prefer. It's a very difficult situation she's put you in.

Think about that. If you R, will you still be willing to associate with them (sans the OM)? If so, are you willing to endure the embarrassment? Or or you willing to be done with all of them?

It's not just the cheating, it's the way she cheated. Sometimes the consequences to the BS for reconciling, are just too much to bare.


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## LosingHim

ButtPunch said:


> She's no victim
> 
> She cheated.
> 
> End of story.


Never said she was a victim. And I said that she’s scum and there isn’t an excuse. But as SlowlyGoingCrazy also said, I get nervous around groups of people, a lot of times around men, around women that are too strong in personality. I have a hard time saying no, I’m a people pleaser and occasionally do things out of the ordinary and to be liked. In the past couple of years I’ve made much greater efforts in those areas because I had boundary issues and it was imperative to change those things in order to save and continue my marriage. 

My ex husband hit me, physically and emotionally abused me. I haven’t been with him in 13 years, but I STILL bow to controlling men. Obviously not in the same ways as I did to him, but I’m very liable to keep my mouth shut around controlling men and/or alter the things I do to keep them happy or fly under the radar. I work with a very controlling, dominant man who is similar in personality to my ex husband. I don’t like him, but I will do things he asks (that are work related) due to my desire to “keep the waters calm” because of his personality. I don’t feel comfortable standing up to him. 

She was gang raped. Multiple men. Left with multiple drunk men. I’m 110% positive she felt helpless when she was being raped by multiple men. I felt helpless while being raped by one. In a group of drunk, probably boisterous, loud, wild men she most likely felt very small and like going along with the ride so as not to cause any waves. 

None of this absolves her responsibility in this, she still did what she did regardless of the circumstances behind it, but she sure as HELL should’ve never been left alone with 9 drunk men.


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## *Deidre*

I don't think she's scum, either. I just don't think she's a victim.

She could have assessed the situation and left...or realized that she shouldn't be alone with nine guys. There were many opportunities for her to change her mind, and do the right thing. She chose to do the wrong thing. That doesn't make her scum, but it should make her divorced.


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## LosingHim

*Deidre* said:


> It's interesting how no one ever sees men as victims when these same exact scenarios are posted here. If her husband was hanging out in a house full of women all night, and they all got drunk, and he slept with someone...no one would be calling him a victim. Why do we think women are victims all the time? I'm not a victim ...if I choose to make bad choices, it's on me. If someone rapes me, that's different. But, if I willingly get drunk and sleep with a guy, other than my husband, it's on me. We're adults, not children who need instructions before we go to a party. If you're married to someone who needs constant ''supervision,'' you might be married to the wrong person.


You’ve proven time and time again here that you’re a strong woman who takes no sh*t from anyone and you don’t need supervision. We get it. Not every woman is like you. I don’t recall saying she’s a victim, she’s still 100% responsible for what she consented to doing. But I still don’t think that as a man, knowing his wives history with not drinking, the fact that she was gang raped, socially awkward and didn’t really like his friends, his friends (and him) had hid infidelity in the past amongst them and were known to be big drinkers/partiers, that he should have left her alone with them. She’s 100 pounds! ANYTHING could have happened. This was consensual, it very easily could have been a very different scenario.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I would not consider myself a victim if I ended up in that situation but I'd be an idiot to put myself in it in the first place. I'd also hope my husband would never leave me in that situation. Not because he didn't trust me but because it's unsafe and I wouldn't feel comfortable. 

From what I gather the cabins was theirs so one of them needed to stay. She should have left anyway. There's a lot she could have and should have done and she didn't. She's at fault. It's just a crappy situation all around.


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## LosingHim

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I would not consider myself a victim if I ended up in that situation but I'd be an idiot to put myself in it in the first place. I'd also hope my husband would never leave me in that situation. Not because he didn't trust me but because it's unsafe and I wouldn't feel comfortable.
> 
> From what I gather the cabins was theirs so one of them needed to stay. She should have left anyway. There's a lot she could have and should have done and she didn't. She's at fault. It's just a crappy situation all around.


I would NOT want to be left with 9 men! Regardless of who they were. Not because I’d cheat with them, but because of awkwardness and safety. And IF my husband left me with 9 men, I would honestly feel like he didn’t care about me AT ALL. OP originally said that one of them had to stay because it was their place and then said that the decision to stay was hers. 

I will say some things just aren’t adding up in this post.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Yes Losinghim. I have a couple stories of being pressured into things, sexually, I didn't want to do. I've gotten a lot of "why didn't you just....." cause I was scared and not good at confrontation and my default is to do it and make them happy and I have a really hard time saying no. I have/had ptsd and severe anxiety issues and a history of domestic violence. 

I don't consider these events rape or that I was the victim and it's still ultimately on me but I wouldn't be with 9 drunk men alone without my man. Ever. Nor would I want my man to think poorly of me by knowing myself enough to keep me away from that situation.


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## *Deidre*

LosingHim said:


> You’ve proven time and time again here that you’re a strong woman who takes no sh*t from anyone and you don’t need supervision. We get it. Not every woman is like you. I don’t recall saying she’s a victim, she’s still 100% responsible for what she consented to doing. But I still don’t think that as a man, knowing his wives history with not drinking, the fact that she was gang raped, socially awkward and didn’t really like his friends, his friends (and him) had hid infidelity in the past amongst them and were known to be big drinkers/partiers, that he should have left her alone with them. She’s 100 pounds! ANYTHING could have happened. This was consensual, it very easily could have been a very different scenario.


I've dated a few jerks, LH...I used to be a doormat for guys, and then I learned to start respecting myself. This is why it saddens me when I see women who never give themselves a chance to live a better life. They keep making bad choices, and unfortunately, it's our choices that get us to where we are. Even if she wants to play the victim, she still ruined her marriage. Even if the OP stays with her, she still ruined her marriage. Whether she is 100 pounds or not, she will have to live with that.


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## LosingHim

*Deidre* said:


> I've dated a few jerks, LH...I used to be a doormat for guys, and then I learned to start respecting myself. This is why it saddens me when I see women who never give themselves a chance to live a better life. They keep making bad choices, and unfortunately, it's our choices that get us to where we are. Even if she wants to play the victim, she still ruined her marriage. Even if the OP stays with her, she still ruined her marriage. Whether she is 100 pounds or not, she will have to live with that.


I don’t see any posts from OP where he’s said she’s played the victim. I don’t see anyone saying she’s a victim. The fact that her marriage is ruined is 100% on her. She did the crime. Regardless of whether she’s a doormat or not, even us doormats know it’s wrong, we just often feel powerless to say no. I’m 39 years old and I am JUST NOW able to stand up to my mother! And only because I’m tired of the toxic relationship. She and my dad are getting ready to buy my sister a house to rent to her. My 47 year old sister, the alcoholic who doesn’t have a full time job, couldn’t finance a $5000 car on her own, mom pays her cell phone, car payment and car insurance and she’s STILL 3 months behind on her current rent. But it took me 39 years to realize how soft I was with my family because they ARE my family and I thought I had to accept them for who they were and didn’t see all these bad things. Not to threadjack, but I’m saying some of us doormats don’t always realize that we’re doormats and that the things that we’re doing are actually detrimental to our mental health

He paints his wife in a very poor, waifish way, unable to stand up for herself or handle men or people, has anxiety issues, has been gang raped, etc. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m picture this meek little waifish woman who bows her head when she speaks and whispers because she can’t look anyone in the eye. But he leaves her with 9 drunk men and suddenly she’s a sultry, barely clothed vixen who boned his BFF? Something ain’t right.


----------



## badmemory

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> From what I gather the cabins was theirs so one of them needed to stay. She should have left anyway.


How about just politely retiring to her own room, locking the door, and passing out all by herself. She's an adult. She should have known better.

But there's a reason she didn't do that. I agree with the other posters who suggested there was probably a previous history with this OM.


----------



## *Deidre*

LosingHim said:


> I don’t see any posts from OP where he’s said she’s played the victim. I don’t see anyone saying she’s a victim. The fact that her marriage is ruined is 100% on her. She did the crime. Regardless of whether she’s a doormat or not, even us doormats know it’s wrong, we just often feel powerless to say no. I’m 39 years old and I am JUST NOW able to stand up to my mother! And only because I’m tired of the toxic relationship. She and my dad are getting ready to buy my sister a house to rent to her. My 47 year old sister, the alcoholic who doesn’t have a full time job, couldn’t finance a $5000 car on her own, mom pays her cell phone, car payment and car insurance and she’s STILL 3 months behind on her current rent. But it took me 39 years to realize how soft I was with my family because they ARE my family and I thought I had to accept them for who they were and didn’t see all these bad things. Not to threadjack, but I’m saying some of us doormats don’t always realize that we’re doormats and that the things that we’re doing are actually detrimental to our mental health
> 
> He paints his wife in a very poor, waifish way, unable to stand up for herself or handle men or people, has anxiety issues, has been gang raped, etc. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m picture this meek little waifish woman who bows her head when she speaks and whispers because she can’t look anyone in the eye. But he leaves her with 9 drunk men and suddenly she’s a sultry, barely clothed vixen who boned his BFF? Something ain’t right.


I'm not sure why he dropped her off there, maybe trusted the friends that were there? Idk. I don't think that we can ever know the whole story because we weren't there. There's always another side to the story, too. It could also be that she is one way around him, and another way around others. We just don't know and can only offer our opinions as best as can. And from a former doormat, you are strong, you just need to believe it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

LosingHim said:


> I would NOT want to be left with 9 men! Regardless of who they were. Not because I’d cheat with them, but because of awkwardness and safety. And IF my husband left me with 9 men, I would honestly feel like he didn’t care about me AT ALL. OP originally said that one of them had to stay because it was their place and then said that the decision to stay was hers.
> 
> I will say some things just aren’t adding up in this post.


I think I'd feel like I was being set up to be honest. 

My bf never leaves my side in any situation that could get dangerous or uncomfortable for me. I'd also feel like he didn't care about me if he left me there.


----------



## samyeagar

LosingHim said:


> I don’t see any posts from OP where he’s said she’s played the victim. I don’t see anyone saying she’s a victim. The fact that her marriage is ruined is 100% on her. She did the crime. Regardless of whether she’s a doormat or not, even us doormats know it’s wrong, we just often feel powerless to say no. I’m 39 years old and I am JUST NOW able to stand up to my mother! And only because I’m tired of the toxic relationship. She and my dad are getting ready to buy my sister a house to rent to her. My 47 year old sister, the alcoholic who doesn’t have a full time job, couldn’t finance a $5000 car on her own, mom pays her cell phone, car payment and car insurance and she’s STILL 3 months behind on her current rent. But it took me 39 years to realize how soft I was with my family because they ARE my family and I thought I had to accept them for who they were and didn’t see all these bad things. Not to threadjack, but I’m saying some of us doormats don’t always realize that we’re doormats and that the things that we’re doing are actually detrimental to our mental health
> 
> He paints his wife in a very poor, waifish way, unable to stand up for herself or handle men or people, has anxiety issues, has been gang raped, etc. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m picture this meek little waifish woman who bows her head when she speaks and whispers because she can’t look anyone in the eye. But he leaves her with 9 drunk men and suddenly she’s a sultry, barely clothed vixen who boned his BFF? *Something ain’t right*.


With any of this story...


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think I'd feel like I was being set up to be honest.
> 
> My bf never leaves my side in any situation that could get dangerous or uncomfortable for me. I'd also feel like he didn't care about me if he left me there.


Those were his friends.

I am certain he thought she was safe.

This is no different than a man at a stag party.

"I was pressured into having sex with that stripper/hooker."


----------



## ltsandwich

*Deidre* said:


> I'm not sure why he dropped her off there, maybe trusted the friends that were there? Idk. I don't think that we can ever know the whole story because we weren't there. There's always another side to the story, too. It could also be that she is one way around him, and another way around others. We just don't know and can only offer our opinions as best as can. And from a former doormat, you are strong, you just need to believe it.


The framing, that I gather, was that they all made it there and THEN he was called into work due to lack of manpower. His wife then said she would like to stay and he didn't feel worried because they were his friends AND she was prone to anti-male behavior/didn't drink often.

So low and behold, she does both of these things when he's not there. 

OP: Pretty obvious she shows you one side while she has another face when you're not around. Also she's stated before she's COMFORTABLE with that guy she slept with and fairly close. That's a huge red flag as far as I'm concerned.

I say proceed with the divorce. I would also toss in kick your friend's ass/dump the remainder since they seem to have a history of being terrible friends. (You seemed to be a part of that mentality to let things be in the crowd, so hopefully that's changed.) Though being an adult, it's probably just better to work on the divorce, cut the scum out of your life, and concentrate on your family and yourself.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think I'd feel like I was being set up to be honest.
> 
> My bf never leaves my side in any situation that could get dangerous or uncomfortable for me. I'd also feel like he didn't care about me if he left me there.


She chose to stay. He said either way he wasn't worried, but didn't force her to stay there knowing her affinity towards men and drinking. She said she wanted to "Get out of her comfort zone", which sums up she was pre-planning to bang his friend.

This was all just a convenient ploy. Husband got called in and guy she's already sleeping with is there with lots of alcohol to numb the guilt? CHECKMATE.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ButtPunch said:


> Those were his friends.
> 
> I am certain he thought she was safe.
> 
> This is no different than a man at a stag party.
> 
> "I was pressured into having sex with that stripper/hooker."


Pretty crappy friends, and she should have left or stopped herself or walked out or any number of other things she could have done. I'm not saying she is excused. Drunk is no excuse. Pressure is no excuse. She was 100% wrong for what she did- and didn't do-, I just also agree that she shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. I would be upset if I had been.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ltsandwich said:


> This was all just a convenient ploy. Husband got called in and guy she's already sleeping with is there with lots of alcohol to numb the guilt? CHECKMATE.


Where is it shown that she's already sleeping with "Dan"?


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

A previous poster mentioned that the friends think the marriage is worth saving, the same friends that were aware and kept it quiet... honor among unmindful thieves?

Broken people in broken places do broken things... a party has ended, now the cleanup begins.

The marriage may be worth saving, but you are going to have to make moving that very low bar a lifestyle change x 1000.

Whatever makes sense in the original post or subsequent posts by the OP, it has some thoughts exchanged about the seeds we plant, the friends we keep, and the behaviors accepted with the people we associate with, or our spouses associate with for that matter.

We do know people by their friends, never seen an upright person hang for long with those that aren't...

Choose wisely.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I just also agree that she shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. .



She put herself in that position.

Price he pays for trusting his wife and his friends.


----------



## thedope

jdr8 said:


> This was stupid to post and waste so much time doing. My wife is a ***** and of course she doesn't deserve a second chance.


She is trick truthing you. Only telling you a little bit at a time. She has only disclosed the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Where is it shown that she's already sleeping with "Dan"?


Logical deduction with a high possibility. She drop hints that she's comfortable around the guy in the first place and then goes out of her "Comfort Zone" to stay with 9 guys and drink when it's established she doesn't drink as far as her husband is concerned?

Cheaters always give away breadcrumbs subconsciously. The drinking was never the issue. She chose to drink in a situation that she claimed she wasn't comfortable with and seemed to be more than enthused about jumping on the guy. He even states that she's normally in pain when they have sex, no matter how aroused/wet she is but that's not brought up by the friends about hearing pained sex noises?

Seems like he knows more about her body than a first encounter. Also she says they only did it once...yet a condom was used AT FIRST and then no condom? Come on. She's even lying about how many times she had sex just in this encounter.

I would tell OP to get a lie detector test...but he seems adamant on leaving her, so in the end it doesn't matter what her infidelity track record is at this point.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LosingHim said:


> I would NOT want to be left with 9 men! Regardless of who they were. Not because I’d cheat with them, but because of awkwardness and safety.


You are entitled to your feelings but I find your commentary in this thread disturbing and ignorant....

That men are nothing more than pack animals who turn into sexual deviants and rapists in large numbers.

That you would not feel safe "no matter who they are". Do you feel the same way about your father, brother(s), son(s), etc?

You certainly DO NOT speak for me in any situation I would be a party to, no matter how much alcohol I consumed.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ButtPunch said:


> She put herself in that position.
> 
> Price he pays for trusting his wife and his friends.


In my relationship, _his _friends means _he _was responsible for sending them home when he got called to work. There wouldn't be a question of if it would still go on without him there and just me alone. People talk all the time about how a husband shouldn't let his wife have a GNO or go on a girl trip, that is where trust comes in to me. Leaving your wife with a group of rowdy and drunk men with a history of bad behavior just isn't good boundaries by either of them. 

My feelings are different than some would be because I look to my bf as my protector. He keeps me safe. Having many of the same traits as his wife does makes it even more important for him to stand up for me and being my safety in unsafe situations because I don't always stand up for myself and feel uncomfortable and am not good with confrontation. 
So if he left me there it would be very upsetting.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> In my relationship, _his _friends means _he _was responsible for sending them home when he got called to work. There wouldn't be a question of if it would still go on without him there and just me alone. People talk all the time about how a husband shouldn't let his wife have a GNO or go on a girl trip, that is where trust comes in to me. Leaving your wife with a group of rowdy and drunk men with a history of bad behavior just isn't good boundaries by either of them.
> 
> My feelings are different than some would be because I look to my bf as my protector. He keeps me safe. Having many of the same traits as his wife does makes it even more important for him to stand up for me and being my safety in unsafe situations because I don't always stand up for myself and feel uncomfortable and am not good with confrontation.
> So if he left me there it would be very upsetting.


Don't get me wrong, I see your side for sure. You're not wrong at all if he had just flat out left her or insisted she stayed...but she's a different female and I think that's what changes many things. 

In the end, she insisted on staying. He didn't just leave her. His phrasing was he was planning on taking her with him but she was the one that declined and formed it like she wanted to broaden her horizons. How easily she took to the situation itself including the drinking I think is very telling. She definitely was hiding aspects of herself. Maybe it was due to her trauma, but she ended up making a terrible decision that seems premeditated. Also she seems to not be forth coming until friends "out" her behavior.

On his end, he had WAY too much trust for his friends...especially given the history they have of hiding things from other friends about infidelities. I think if she was "left" with them with no options, then yes, that would be a scummy thing to do with her history for sure.

I don't think your opinions are incorrect at all. Just want to say that again, but I don't completely agree. It's good to have another perspective...maybe he hasn't said all the details on his side and this is something he needed to read. I can only base my assumptions/opinions on what he wrote.

In this case...she wanted to stay. It's not an issue of he "Left" her. It's an issue of he trusted his friends too much and his wife, as well, from what I've read (repeatedly to trying to make sure I understood best I could).


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I also see your point. My feelings are based on this specific part 


"10 friends came up (9 men and ones wife) but I ended up being called into work. My wife and friends stayed, which was fine my wife had to stay because it's our cottage and the friends wanted to stay. They had all just driven 3-4 hours to get there. My wife expressed concern and anxiety about being there alone with 9 men, but tries to step out of her comfort zone and stayed."


She expressed concern and anxiety. Probably didn't want to be the stick in the mud wife by making a big fuss and said she's just go out of her comfort zone because everyone is relying on her and they drove a long time and she doesn't want to be a downer. 

That's how's I'd feel about it (being a shy, reserved, anxiety ridden woman myself) 


If I expressed concern but would ultimately give in, my bf would hopefully take that as a "take charge of the situation and stand up for me when I can't" situation. 

This in NO WAY excuses her actions. I'm not saying that at all. She made her own choices and is an adult with her own mind.


----------



## doconiram

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Just read this thread. Ouch. First why in the world would one leave their wife with nine men in a cottage, friends or no friends. I question your judgement. Secondly,from what you post it seems your wife has had a thing for Dan. Most likely this was not the first rodeo for her with Dan. Most likely this has been going on behind your back for some time. My intuition tells me she confessed as their were eight other witnesses to her shenanigans and she was worried about you finding out from one of the eight.Very seldom does a cheater tell you 100% of the truth initially.
> 
> If you should change your mind to R, a polygraph is a must for your peace of mind.


Boom, spot on. She was dumb enough to get it on with Dan when there were witnesses. 

Know what you are forgiving


----------



## doconiram

Oh, and Dan is not your friend. He's not even close to being one. Friends don't bang a friend's spouse.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I had a best friend from high school/college years hit on and try to pick-up my longtime GF when we were briefly broken-up, but still trying to work things out. He even followed her half-way home one night. Needless to say, after that he wasn't my friend anymore and has the scars to remember it by. OP leaves his W with his life-long buddies and one of them has a successful operation to get his W drunk and bang her. Lose the toxic friends and then you can start figuring out what to do with your W.


----------



## LosingHim

BetrayedDad said:


> You are entitled to your feelings but I find your commentary in this thread disturbing and ignorant....
> 
> That men are nothing more than pack animals who turn into sexual deviants and rapists in large numbers.
> 
> That you would not feel safe "no matter who they are". Do you feel the same way about your father, brother(s), son(s), etc?
> 
> You certainly DO NOT speak for me in any situation I would be a party to, no matter how much alcohol I consumed.


I find a lot of the things you say hateful and biased, but you're entitled to your opinion as well.

I'm in no way saying every man is scum and going to prey on women, but 1 in 4 (or 5 depending on what study you read) are raped. That's a rather staggering statistic wouldn't you say? OPs wife was gang raped, that means she was victim of a pack mentality. 8 of those men might be great men, what I hope my dad, brother, etc., is. But it only takes one. And with alcohol flowing, people change. This might not be who *you* are, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen some pretty sketchy things myself. Good for you if you aren't one of them.


----------



## MAJDEATH

LosingHim said:


> I find a lot of the things you say hateful and biased, but you're entitled to your opinion as well.
> 
> I'm in no way saying every man is scum and going to prey on women, *but 1 in 4 (or 5 depending on what study you read) are raped*. That's a rather staggering statistic wouldn't you say? OPs wife was gang raped, that means she was victim of a pack mentality. 8 of those men might be great men, what I hope my dad, brother, etc., is. But it only takes one. And with alcohol flowing, people change. This might not be who *you* are, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen some pretty sketchy things myself. Good for you if you aren't one of them.


LH, I enjoy reading most of your posts. But if I could thread jack for a moment, I would ask that you please not continue to perpetuate this "1 in 4 or 5 are raped" mythological statistic that started with a NY times survey of only college females back in 2015. Rape is a serious matter. It happened to OP's W, happened to my W, and happened to you. But the survey only received responses from 19% of those polled, and of those only 23% (for a revised total of 4%) indicated they had been a victim of sexual misconduct - which includes everything from touching to forceable kissing, to rubbing over clothes (much different from full-on penetrative rape). It is probably more accurate to say that of all women in the US, 8% have been raped, which is closer to 1 in 13. And I couldn't even imagine the percentage of victims of gang rapes, probably less than 1/10 of 1 percent.


----------



## NJ2

I think this is a bit of a thread jack but I'll say it any ways...(how are you LH? i'll have to catch up on your thread!)
I have also heard the statistic that 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted throughout their lifetime. A university professor told me that a rapist doesnt fit a certain "profile". They can be rich, poor, socially awkward or the life of the party, they can be the football hero or the clerk at the corner store, ugly or handsome, intelligent or not.....

Add to that- they can be a neighbour, a father, a brother, a teacher, a priest, a coach, a stranger, a friend, a husband...(although there was a law that said a woman cant be raped by her husband at one time- it was changed in the 60's I think)

It can happen because there was peer pressure, or a gang mentality, or it could happen as an individual opportunity.

I think the statistics are not saying 1 in 4 men are rapists. They are saying that 1 in 4 woman are sexually assaulted. I think that if a man is a rapist/sexual assaulter he has many many victims. If I remember an old statistic it is something like 40something victims throughout their lifetime.So there are far fewer men that are rapists then this statistic suggests.

I was sexually assaulted (not raped) by a cousin, my brothers friend and an old blind guy my mom had stay at our house. I would imagine that I was not their first victim or their last by any stretch of the imagination. My friend was sexually assaulted by her brother and her babysitter. A co-worker's husband sexually assaulted his children from his first marriage, and got her pregnant at 13 (so sexually assaulted her) and then sexually assaulted their child.....thats just off the top of my head...

Most men are great- a few men are monsters. Women must take care in any circumstance where they may be vulnerable.

Done with thread jack!


----------



## chillymorn69

Intereasting I googled how often are men raped by women .

Some articles said almost as frequently as women raped by men.

Even if its half as much its still shocking that there are no suport for male sex crime victims.

One artical explained that the notion that if they had an erection that it wasn't rape but if we used that same notion on women we would be chastised.

On another note back to the op.

If your wife was on depression meds it could be likley that when you mix it with alcohol she could of blacked out and not reaaly know how it happened. Was talking to my friend(male) and he told me when he was on depression medicine he could drink 4 beers but if he had 5 he would black out. He even told be he was banging his old lady once after 5 beer and in the middle of banging her he blacked out.


----------



## The Middleman

jdr8 said:


> It was my wife's decision to stay or go. I had to leave and she 100% had the option of leaving with me. She was unsure about staying but decided to. She was uncomfortable staying and expressed concern over that. She is uncomfortable being around a group of men when I'm there, it would be worse when I'm not there. She choose to stay.


This is the part that I don't get at all. In all my years of marriage, I had never thought it was OK for my wife to be anywhere, or at any event with other men there (who were not her blood relatives) without my being present; especially where alcohol is involved. As old fashioned as this sounds, *I would never permit it*, much less make it her option. I don't care how close you were to these guys, any man would use the fact that you were not there as opportunity to **** your wife. I'm sorry to put it to you this way, but what the hell were you ****ing thinking?



jdr8 said:


> This was stupid to post and waste so much time doing. My wife is a ***** and of course she doesn't deserve a second chance.


Unfortunately, this is the case. I don't know how you can take her back and maintain even an ounce of your self respect. I do feel bad for you, despite my harsh words above.


----------



## Evinrude58

What's odd to me is that :

She laid there naked in plain view on the couch with the guy. I don't care how drunk. It sounds blatant.

She was left drinking with 9 guys.

OP "trusts" 9 different dudes that have turned a blind eye to cheaters in their midst, and OP trusts all 9 drunk with his 100lb, fit, self-described hottie of a wife.

I can count maybe 2 men I'd trust completely to be drinking with my lady with me not around and one is my dad. 

Who plays sexual drinking games with their friend's wives?
Certainly not "trustworthy" guys.

Yet OP still sounds like he he's only mad at "DAn". No anger over the other guys playing strip poker with his lady while he's gone?

The whole story is odd in my opinion. It just doesn't add up.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LosingHim said:


> I find a lot of the things you say hateful and biased, but you're entitled to your opinion as well.
> 
> I'm in no way saying every man is scum and going to prey on women, but 1 in 4 (or 5 depending on what study you read) are raped. That's a rather staggering statistic wouldn't you say? OPs wife was gang raped, that means she was victim of a pack mentality. 8 of those men might be great men, what I hope my dad, brother, etc., is. But it only takes one. And with alcohol flowing, people change. This might not be who *you* are, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen some pretty sketchy things myself. Good for you if you aren't one of them.


Yeah, good for me... FYI: She WASN'T raped in this situation. She admitted herself to being a WILLING participant. 

That has nothing to do with this story other than paranoid women projecting their issues onto OP's cheating wife. 

Not every drunk girl is a rape victim and not every group of men are rapists. People need to stop victimizing the perpetrator.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

She had been raped before is the point. The trauma can make dealing with situations in the future more difficult. Hence why he never should have left her there. 

No one is excusing what she did. It's an "and" not a "but"

She shouldn't have done it 
AND 
He shouldn't have left her there.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Evinrude58 said:


> Who plays sexual drinking games with their friend's wives?
> Certainly not "trustworthy" guys.


Guys who already know that certain women are always looking for a good time.

Unfortunately, no one awared the OP that he was marrying a "party girl" so to speak.

No one really wants to tell their bro that their wife isn't hard to get. Even with a wedding ring.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She had been raped before is the point.


SO WHAT?!? 

She wasn't raped now. 

It isn't relevant.


----------



## jdr8

Ok, there are far too many posts to respond to and it’s a bit overwhelming. I would like to point out a few things. 

First off, when a friend in my group cheated on her fiancé yes we buried it. This was a long time ago, I’m not sure my wife was in the picture even. So let’s say it was 7+ years ago. We were bar hopping and went back to my place afterwards. Two friends, one engaged and one single felt each other up (fingering and hand job) in front of everyone basically. They were in a hot tub but very visible. No one said anything to her fiancé, now husband, and it has stayed that way. The thought at the time was that it was not our place to destroy a relationship and friendships. We were early-mid 20’s at the time, now maybe it would be different but it’s not something I’m going to bring up now. That will just seem like revenge. The man who was cheated on had no part in my wife cheating. He was wasted out of his mind that night. To the best of my knowledge nothing like that has happened since, and my friends are known for drama and blabbing. 

Second, I did not force my wife to stay at our cottage. What happened was my wife and I went to the cottage early Friday. We got things ready and people started to arrive Friday afternoon and evening. “Dan” arrived first, followed by everyone else a few hours later. Everyone had arrived before I was called into work. I was called into work around 10PM. I never get called in on weekends and did not expect it at all. My wife would not have planned on me getting called in. 

I told my wife and friends what was going on. It is our cottage and someone needed to stay there with them. There are things about the cottage that they don’t know, i.e.. how to unplug the water tank, troubleshooting problems with the fireplace, dealing with our *****y neighbours, disposing of garbage and beer cans (need resident I.D. to use the landfill). My wife very well could have come home with me. There was some pressure for her to stay, because if she didn’t everyone had to go home after just driving 3-4 hours to get there. My wife didn’t jump at the opportunity to stay there alone. She was unsure and her immediate response was that she didn’t want to stay. She did feel pressured into staying to some degree. If my wife stayed, I expected her to act as she normally does and not drink. Most times that we all get together she either doesn’t drink at all, or she doesn’t even come out of our bedroom. Our family owns the cottage next door, which is probably about 30’ apart from ours, and she could have gone there if she wanted to. That cottage was totally empty that day. She didn’t use it at all. I did buy her drinks and left those for her, coolers that I know she likes. I want her to have fun, let loose and enjoy my friends and herself. What she did however, was not the type of letting lose and enjoying my friends that I had in mind. 

The cottage is 3 hours from our house, 2 hours from “Dan’s” house. My wife has gone up 3-4 times without me this summer, she took our kid. 

On the Friday night after I left my wife stayed in our bedroom and didn’t come out at all. None of my friends saw her that night and I got a text from one of them mentioning that she hadn’t come out. That is her typical behaviour. The Saturday she did drink with them and the drinks kept going. 

Dan was the first one to leave on Sunday, quite early around 11AM. Everyone else left between 2-5PM. He is usually the last first to arrive and last to leave. 

To the best of my knowledge, and this is all from other people as I wasn’t there, the games they played where not all sexual or solely sexual. They played board/card games first, followed by two drinking games. The two games they played were apps and I asked which they were and downloaded them. I’d say that 70% of the questions are not sexual. There were questions like “Take off two pieces of clothing or drink” (which my wife did), “Kiss someone of the same gender or drink” (which from snapchat I know that two of my male friends did, and any of them would - we don’t care). “Beat along to the song on the person to your lefts ass”, “Someone touches your boob for 5 seconds”. Along with a lot of non sexual ones like ugliest outfit drinks, youngest drinks (my wife is by far the youngest, followed by Dan), touch your tongue to your nose, etc. To my knowledge the only one who took off clothes was my wife and one other guy (Dan’s brother). 

And again, based on what I have been told from friends is that they were cuddling on the couch (clothed, wife in bra and jeans) before everyone went to bed. One person got up in the middle of the night and has to walk through the living room to get to the washroom, he thought he saw them naked but they had a blanket over them, sort of. He was tired, drunk, it was dark and he said he didn’t really think about it until morning. However yes, she will barely lie naked with me so her laying naked with the possibility of 9 other people walking in does not add up. 

None of my friends saw them having sex or saw them kiss. They saw them flirting a little bit. From the mouthes of 3 of my friends, they noticed my wife acting more sociable and touchy towards Dan. However all 3 said they barely know her and can’t read her. 

Of the 10 people who were there, 8 are married on in relationships. Two are married to each other, together 10 years. The other 6 are in serious relationships that have been going on for 3-17 years. The two that are single are usually single, and neither were involved in my wife’s cheating nor would either push my wife to drink as they are both on the shy/quiet side. My “friends” are not a bunch of frat boys, as someone mentioned. Yes, we like to get together and drink once in a while but we aren’t going wild. Usually we just play card/board games, nothing exciting happens. 

I have no idea if my wife would take a polygraph test. I haven’t thought about that or brought it up. I doubt those are very accurate anyway. And what are we suppose to do, go on Maury? “You are… not the father!” Better not ****ing hear that come from her. 

I do not agree that men and women cannot be left alone together. That doesn’t automatically make them jump into bed together or a turn a group of men into rapists. 

She does take anti-anxiety medications, which may react to alcohol, however if she intends on drinking she skips the pill that day or weekend. She can go a couple days without them before she feels side effects and needs to go back on them. So I call BS on that. 

She made the decision to take 8+ drinks. No one shoved them down her throat. If she was with it enough to make out with him and get her clothes off, she was with it enough to stop him. She has not once called it rape, which she would if she felt she was unable to say no. 

I have spoke to “Dan” about it and it has turned physical. The story that he’s given me is that he’s very sorry, it was a mistake, it has never happened before and won’t happen again. He thinks I should work it out with my wife. He isn’t giving me many more details than my wife, less in many areas and a smudge more in others. No, I no longer consider him a friend. 

I still have serious doubts that it was the first and only time they have been involved with each other. For all I know she has been ****ing him for the last 5-6 years when they first met (and were alone together for the first time) and my kids not even mine. We’re both white guys with dark brown hair and brown eyes. He has curly hair, most of my family has curly hair. It could easily be passable and hideable. Too far? Who knows at this damn point. 

She has not told me the real reason why she told me now. It has been weeks, without a peep and then she randomly came out with it. I know she was/is late getting her period, so like someone mentioned she could have told me because she could have gotten herself knocked up by him. But like I just said above, she could easily hide who the biological father is. If she can cheat on me with my close friend, I wouldn’t hold lying about paternity over her. Chances are she isn’t pregnant, and she’s late a lot, so I’m not sold that is the reason why she told me. She says she told me because she felt bad, but I called BS and know that’s not the real reason. My guess is someone threatened to blab. Dan’s GF knows about it. 

I do not care about my friends more than my wife, well maybe now I do. However, that is something that my wife always said. 

I have so far spoken to the top 5 divorce lawyers in my city. I know that she is lying about things, because her story has changed slightly. I don’t know if marriage therapy could save this. I have no idea how people salvage their marriages after cheating. I have cheated in the past, not on my wife and only in my teenage years, however not until now do I really understand the full damage. 99% of me wants my wife to die and disappear off the planet or live a terrible, lonely, pathetic life. The other 1% of me wants to salvage the marriage and move to Antarctica.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

His wife isn't a party girl. 

I was once told that I was pursued simply because I am shy and quiet and a people pleaser and that makes girls easier to talk into bed. 

Obviously that guy was a jerk but so are OPs friends. 

Men know girls who have a hard time saying no and causing conflict. Girls who have been abused and raped and have depression and anxiety issues. 

We aren't the party girls but we are easy as heck for men to manipulate and pressure and get us to do things we don't want to do. 

I had to realize this about myself to protect myself and stay out of bad situations and with only people I trust with my life. 
That's all on me and OPs wife should have done the same. And he should have been her supporter and protector. At least that's what I'd have wanted in that situation


----------



## BetrayedDad

@jdr8

She's not wife material. You don't need to know anything more than that. Get rid of her or lose EVERYONE'S respect including your own.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> SO WHAT?!?
> 
> She wasn't raped now.
> 
> It isn't relevant.


It is but being a man who's not been raped you wouldn't ever understand. You don't have to. 

OPs husband had a role in not keeping her protected. She felt pressure to stay in a situation she was not comfortable in. That is not ok. As soon as he was called to work *he* should have cancelled. He put it on her to either stay or send them home. So she either stays and is uncomfortable or is the mean wife who made everyone drive 3 hours for nothing. 

It's also not ok what she did and there was tons of things she could have done to stop it. 

Again - AND 

One doesn't cancel out the other.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> His wife isn't a party girl.


Seriously?

She played sex games, took off her clothes, got hammered and then banged one of the dudes.

So how many women here would of behaved the same? Willingly, with no husband around?

Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY?!? Leaving her there is nothing compared to what she did.


----------



## jdr8

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> His wife isn't a party girl.
> 
> I was once told that I was pursued simply because I am shy and quiet and a people pleaser and that makes girls easier to talk into bed.
> 
> Obviously that guy was a jerk but so are OPs friends.
> 
> Men know girls who have a hard time saying no and causing conflict. Girls who have been abused and raped and have depression and anxiety issues.
> 
> We aren't the party girls but we are easy as heck for men to manipulate and pressure and get us to do things we don't want to do.
> 
> I had to realize this about myself to protect myself and stay out of bad situations and with only people I trust with my life.
> That's all on me and OPs wife should have done the same. And he should have been her supporter and protector. At least that's what I'd have wanted in that situation


Of all the things my wife is, I will agree that she is not a party girl. Throughout high school and college she never once went to a party. The only parties she goes to are ones thrown by my friends that I'm going to or that I throw. 9 times out of 10 she either doesn't go or if it's at our house she stays in our bedroom and doesn't come out. 

I could call her a lot of things, but a party girl isn't one of them. All of my friends know she doesn't party, doesn't drink and is very shy. She's always invited out, but no one is surprised when she doesn't go or doesn't drink.


----------



## samyeagar

jdr8 said:


> Ok, there are far too many posts to respond to and it’s a bit overwhelming. I would like to point out a few things.
> 
> First off, when a friend in my group cheated on her fiancé yes we buried it. This was a long time ago, I’m not sure my wife was in the picture even. So let’s say it was 7+ years ago. We were bar hopping and went back to my place afterwards. Two friends, one engaged and one single felt each other up (fingering and hand job) in front of everyone basically. They were in a hot tub but very visible. No one said anything to her fiancé, now husband, and it has stayed that way. The thought at the time was that it was not our place to destroy a relationship and friendships. We were early-mid 20’s at the time, now maybe it would be different but it’s not something I’m going to bring up now. That will just seem like revenge. The man who was cheated on had no part in my wife cheating. He was wasted out of his mind that night. To the best of my knowledge nothing like that has happened since, and my friends are known for drama and blabbing.
> 
> Second, I did not force my wife to stay at our cottage. What happened was my wife and I went to the cottage early Friday. We got things ready and people started to arrive Friday afternoon and evening. “Dan” arrived first, followed by everyone else a few hours later. Everyone had arrived before I was called into work. I was called into work around 10PM. I never get called in on weekends and did not expect it at all. My wife would not have planned on me getting called in.
> 
> I told my wife and friends what was going on. It is our cottage and someone needed to stay there with them. There are things about the cottage that they don’t know, i.e.. how to unplug the water tank, troubleshooting problems with the fireplace, dealing with our *****y neighbours, disposing of garbage and beer cans (need resident I.D. to use the landfill). My wife very well could have come home with me. There was some pressure for her to stay, because if she didn’t everyone had to go home after just driving 3-4 hours to get there. My wife didn’t jump at the opportunity to stay there alone. She was unsure and her immediate response was that she didn’t want to stay. She did feel pressured into staying to some degree. If my wife stayed, I expected her to act as she normally does and not drink. Most times that we all get together she either doesn’t drink at all, or she doesn’t even come out of our bedroom. Our family owns the cottage next door, which is probably about 30’ apart from ours, and she could have gone there if she wanted to. That cottage was totally empty that day. She didn’t use it at all. I did buy her drinks and left those for her, coolers that I know she likes. I want her to have fun, let loose and enjoy my friends and herself. What she did however, was not the type of letting lose and enjoying my friends that I had in mind.
> 
> The cottage is 3 hours from our house, 2 hours from “Dan’s” house. My wife has gone up 3-4 times without me this summer, she took our kid.
> 
> On the Friday night after I left my wife stayed in our bedroom and didn’t come out at all. None of my friends saw her that night and I got a text from one of them mentioning that she hadn’t come out. That is her typical behaviour. The Saturday she did drink with them and the drinks kept going.
> 
> Dan was the first one to leave on Sunday, quite early around 11AM. Everyone else left between 2-5PM. He is usually the last first to arrive and last to leave.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, and this is all from other people as I wasn’t there, the games they played where not all sexual or solely sexual. They played board/card games first, followed by two drinking games. The two games they played were apps and I asked which they were and downloaded them. I’d say that 70% of the questions are not sexual. There were questions like “Take off two pieces of clothing or drink” (which my wife did), “Kiss someone of the same gender or drink” (which from snapchat I know that two of my male friends did, and any of them would - we don’t care). “Beat along to the song on the person to your lefts ass”, “Someone touches your boob for 5 seconds”. Along with a lot of non sexual ones like ugliest outfit drinks, youngest drinks (my wife is by far the youngest, followed by Dan), touch your tongue to your nose, etc. To my knowledge the only one who took off clothes was my wife and one other guy (Dan’s brother).
> 
> And again, based on what I have been told from friends is that they were cuddling on the couch (clothed, wife in bra and jeans) before everyone went to bed. One person got up in the middle of the night and has to walk through the living room to get to the washroom, he thought he saw them naked but they had a blanket over them, sort of. He was tired, drunk, it was dark and he said he didn’t really think about it until morning. However yes, she will barely lie naked with me so her laying naked with the possibility of 9 other people walking in does not add up.
> 
> None of my friends saw them having sex or saw them kiss. They saw them flirting a little bit. From the mouthes of 3 of my friends, they noticed my wife acting more sociable and touchy towards Dan. However all 3 said they barely know her and can’t read her.
> 
> Of the 10 people who were there, 8 are married on in relationships. Two are married to each other, together 10 years. The other 6 are in serious relationships that have been going on for 3-17 years. The two that are single are usually single, and neither were involved in my wife’s cheating nor would either push my wife to drink as they are both on the shy/quiet side. My “friends” are not a bunch of frat boys, as someone mentioned. Yes, we like to get together and drink once in a while but we aren’t going wild. Usually we just play card/board games, nothing exciting happens.
> 
> I have no idea if my wife would take a polygraph test. I haven’t thought about that or brought it up. I doubt those are very accurate anyway. And what are we suppose to do, go on Maury? “You are… not the father!” Better not ****ing hear that come from her.
> 
> I do not agree that men and women cannot be left alone together. That doesn’t automatically make them jump into bed together or a turn a group of men into rapists.
> 
> She does take anti-anxiety medications, which may react to alcohol, however if she intends on drinking she skips the pill that day or weekend. She can go a couple days without them before she feels side effects and needs to go back on them. So I call BS on that.
> 
> She made the decision to take 8+ drinks. No one shoved them down her throat. If she was with it enough to make out with him and get her clothes off, she was with it enough to stop him. She has not once called it rape, which she would if she felt she was unable to say no.
> 
> I have spoke to “Dan” about it and it has turned physical. The story that he’s given me is that he’s very sorry, it was a mistake, it has never happened before and won’t happen again. He thinks I should work it out with my wife. He isn’t giving me many more details than my wife, less in many areas and a smudge more in others. No, I no longer consider him a friend.
> 
> I still have serious doubts that it was the first and only time they have been involved with each other. For all I know she has been ****ing him for the last 5-6 years when they first met (and were alone together for the first time) and my kids not even mine. We’re both white guys with dark brown hair and brown eyes. He has curly hair, most of my family has curly hair. It could easily be passable and hideable. Too far? Who knows at this damn point.
> 
> She has not told me the real reason why she told me now. It has been weeks, without a peep and then she randomly came out with it. I know she was/is late getting her period, so like someone mentioned she could have told me because she could have gotten herself knocked up by him. But like I just said above, she could easily hide who the biological father is. If she can cheat on me with my close friend, I wouldn’t hold lying about paternity over her. Chances are she isn’t pregnant, and she’s late a lot, so I’m not sold that is the reason why she told me. She says she told me because she felt bad, but I called BS and know that’s not the real reason. My guess is someone threatened to blab. Dan’s GF knows about it.
> 
> I do not care about my friends more than my wife, well maybe now I do. However, that is something that my wife always said.
> 
> I have so far spoken to the top 5 divorce lawyers in my city. I know that she is lying about things, because her story has changed slightly. I don’t know if marriage therapy could save this. I have no idea how people salvage their marriages after cheating. I have cheated in the past, not on my wife and only in my teenage years, however not until now do I really understand the full damage. 99% of me wants my wife to die and disappear off the planet or live a terrible, lonely, pathetic life. The other 1% of me wants to salvage the marriage and move to Antarctica.


So you were called into work Friday night at 10pm and had to work straight through the entire weekend 24/7 and never went back? Since you didn't anticipate ever getting called into work, you and your wife no doubt drove there together in the same car, so how did your wife get home?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> Seriously?
> 
> She played sex games, took off her clothes, got hammered and then banged one of the dudes.
> 
> Where I'm from, that's a good time.


And doing that one time with tons of peer pressure and not wanting to keep locking herself in her room and trying to have fun with his friends does not make one a party girl. 

You don't like women much in general. That plays a big part in your views. The man can't be wrong in any way if the wife cheats. Life isn't so black and white.


----------



## jdr8

BetrayedDad said:


> Seriously?
> 
> She played sex games, took off her clothes, got hammered and then banged one of the dudes.
> 
> Where I'm from, that's a girl showing a guy(s) a good time. So how many women here would of behaved the same?


Perhaps the correction should be, my wife *wasn't* a party girl. Now, maybe I can't say the same.


----------



## GusPolinski

I actually feel bad for your wife. Not sure why, but I do.

Either way, your ENTIRE circle of friends is ****.

Seriously, every single one of them.

If your wife hadn't told you about what happened you'd have never known. Not a single one of your **** friends would've ever told you, and good ol' Dan would be making every attempt at getting her back in the sack every time your back was turned.

Just like none of the other woman's **** friends ever told her fiancé what happened with whoever it was that she was beating off in front of everyone.

And do you SERIOUSLY think it stopped at that?

_Come on._


----------



## Lostinthought61

jdr8,

i'm not sure how you can even reconcile with someone who is going to trickle the truth to you....if you stay with her, i guarantee you that she will trickle more truth in the future...have you asked her to get an std's ? is she pregnant? 
how can you move forward with someone who you can't truth.


----------



## jdr8

samyeagar said:


> So you were called into work Friday night at 10pm and had to work straight through the entire weekend 24/7 and never went back? Since you didn't anticipate ever getting called into work, you and your wife no doubt drove there together in the same car, so how did your wife get home?


I worked 12 hour shifts, when exactly would there of been time to go back? It's a 3 hour drive, not exactly around the corner. No, after leaving Friday night I did not go back until Monday. My wife and I took our own cars. We had a lot of stops to make and a lot to take up. Between all of the stops, the stuff and the dogs, two cars worked much better.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

jdr8 said:


> Of all the things my wife is, I will agree that she is not a party girl. Throughout high school and college she never once went to a party. The only parties she goes to are ones thrown by my friends that I'm going to or that I throw. 9 times out of 10 she either doesn't go or if it's at our house she stays in our bedroom and doesn't come out.
> 
> I could call her a lot of things, but a party girl isn't one of them. All of my friends know she doesn't party, doesn't drink and is very shy. She's always invited out, but no one is surprised when she doesn't go or doesn't drink.


This is me too. I'm the quiet one. People are shocked "omg look she's having a drink" when I have one now and then. I don't get invited because people think I don't want to go. If I do it's a lot of "oh I didn't even notice you were here" of worse trying to make a big deal out of giving me attention to include me. 

I need my bf to protect me and stand up for me. I just do. A role he is happy in. I could end up in dangerous situations without him. 
We go to places where I could end up alone with many men. He doesn't let go of my hand. I'm safe with him, I'm scared without him. If he left me in that situation I don't know what would have happened. But I'd hope he wouldn't. 

You don't take the blame for what she did at all and regardless she is responsible for her actions but if you could go back in time, don't leave a woman alone with 9 men when she's uncomfortable and anxious.


----------



## Evinrude58

So.....not one of 10 friends saw OP's wife on the couch in a bra and jeans with a man other than her husband "cuddling", and told her "honey, you need to get your ass off that couch and get to bed ALONE, and Dan, you need to get your hands off Bill's wife!"
That's not friends I'd need. 

OP, this whole story is a damned shame and truly senseless. The only thing I can think of to say is that you're right---- this wasn't their first rodeo, and your wife is not nearly as shy and innocent as you thought. Clearly she is a different person than you thought you knew.

That said, a game like you describe is totally sexual, since it involves drinking and touching/kissing/ clothing removal.
Your wife was obviously after something with "Dano" if she chose to participate.

She's 100% guilty of cheating and has zero excuses. She was wanting the other guy the whole time it sounds like.

You're well within reason to divorce her. If you choose to reconcile, you'll wonder what she's doing from now on. But there's worse things, I guess.
Good luck....


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And doing that one time with tons of peer pressure and not wanting to keep locking herself in her room and trying to have fun with his friends does not make one a party girl.
> 
> You don't like women much in general. That plays a big part in your views. The man can't be wrong in any way if the wife cheats. Life isn't so black and white.


Nonsense I love women. I love my mother, my daughter and my girlfriend.

What I don't care for is the victim mentality projected on a remorseless cheat.

Find another martyr.... this woman is the worst possible example to defend.


----------



## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> Perhaps the correction should be, my wife *wasn't* a party girl. Now, maybe I can't say the same.


Get your head out of the sand. Your buddies knew your wife better than you did.

Scum like your friends only prey on easy targets. This wasn't her first rodeo.

No one awared you. Another reason to get rid of the lot of them.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

If she was wanting the other guy the whole why did she 
1- say initially she didn't want to stay and only did because they drove so far and she had to or send them home 
2- stay in her room the entire first night

I don't see anything that says evil plan by ws to get a chance to cheat. 

She ended up in a sh*ty situation with sh*ty people and made a sh*ty choice. 

It should have been prevented from the start. It's a horrible situation for everyone.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> Get your head out of the sand. Your buddies knew your wife better than you did.
> 
> Scum like your friends only prey on easy targets. This wasn't her first rodeo.
> 
> No one awared you. Another reason to get rid of the lot of them.


This is crap and projection. Get your head out of the sand. 

Easy target, yes because she is a quiet and shy woman with anxiety issues. Not because she's a party girl who screws everyone.


----------



## jdr8

Lostinthought61 said:


> jdr8,
> 
> i'm not sure how you can even reconcile with someone who is going to trickle the truth to you....if you stay with her, i guarantee you that she will trickle more truth in the future...have you asked her to get an std's ? is she pregnant?
> how can you move forward with someone who you can't truth.


If somehow I decide to take her back, there is no chance in hell at us working out if she doesn't tell me the whole story. If she's lying and it comes out later, I'd walk immediately. I have doubts that she would tell me the whole story, because she has already lied and couldn't keep up with the lies. i.e.) used a condom at first then changed the story and said she didn't. Can't be both. 

I haven't straight out asked her to get tested for STD's, as I had no intention of taking her back. If I decide to, she will definitely need one. She has not told me whether she is pregnant or not, I doubt that she is. Hasn't happened yet doubt it'll happen this month. 

Reconciling and taking her back makes me feel like a ***** and telling her to basically do it again because I'll let her get away with it. It's too easy for her.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> This is crap and projection. Get your head out of the sand.
> 
> Easy target, yes because she is a quiet and shy woman with anxiety issues. Not because she's a party girl who screws everyone.


You can believe the former and I'll believe the latter.

Even if you are right, which your not, so what prevents from happening again? Nothing.

If she's this far gone from anxiety and shyness that she sleeps with other men then she's not wife material.


----------



## Edmund

jdr8
This thread seems crazy. Despite 10 witnesses, and despite the details you provided, it seems like you are not really sure what happened and what it means, if anything. There is one thing you should know to make a fully informed decision - whether the child is yours or not, via DNA test. Either way though, you will be legally responsible for her and remember she believes that you are her dad.

You wrote: "99% of me wants my wife to die and disappear off the planet or live a terrible, lonely, pathetic life. The other 1% of me wants to salvage the marriage and move to Antarctica." That you could even write this about your wife means you do not love her (anymore) and maybe hate her. Sad.

If the incident was a one-time thing, then one could possibly forgive her for making a mistake. If, however, it is a long running affair with "Dan", just now discovered, then the divorce chorus here at TAM is right. In any event, don't stay with someone you hate so much and can't forgive. But you must also have concern for daughter's welfare and feelings. Broken home is sometimes hard on children.

Just my thoughts. Hope that whatever happens you and all the others can eventually heal.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> You can believe the former and I'll believe the latter.
> 
> Even if you are right, which your not, so what prevents from happening again? Nothing.
> 
> If she's this far gone from anxiety and shyness that she sleeps with other men then she's not wife material.


Yes it makes much more sense that the woman who didn't want to stay and kept in her room all night and has always been shy and is on meds for her anxiety is a secret party girl who sleeps with men all the time and all his friends know about it. :|

Now see, that is your projection of women. 

What's to prevent it? I don't know, not leaving her with a group of shady men alone for the weekend? 

I wouldn't consider a man who would leave me in that situation "husband material" so it goes both ways.


----------



## Evinrude58

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If she was wanting the other guy the whole why did she
> 1- say initially she didn't want to stay and only did because they drove so far and she had to or send them home
> 2- stay in her room the entire first night
> 
> I don't see anything that says evil plan by ws to get a chance to cheat.
> 
> She ended up in a sh*ty situation with sh*ty people and made a sh*ty choice.
> 
> It should have been prevented from the start. It's a horrible situation for everyone.


I wouldn't want my wife to see me around a woman I'd been having sex with, either (not that I've ever cheated). Maybe be that's why she didn't come out.

I don't think it was planned at all, I just think when her husband was gone and the opportunity arose, she literally jumped on it.
She's really shy and insecure, but has sex with a guy the first time he shows interest--and she's MARRIED? 
My experience tells me that a shy lady with good morals would NOT take part in a sex/drinking game period, but not a snowflakes chance in hades of participating with a crowd of guys and her husband GONE. It just doesn't make sense, unless she wanted this dan character. And wanted him badly because she knew he wanted her.

Crime of opportunity. Crime of passion.
Crime of no character.

The "friends" are spineless cowards with no character to have said nothing of her on couch in a bra and jeans with another man. Shed all of em.


----------



## *Deidre*

jdr8 said:


> If somehow I decide to take her back, there is no chance in hell at us working out if she doesn't tell me the whole story. If she's lying and it comes out later, I'd walk immediately. I have doubts that she would tell me the whole story, because she has already lied and couldn't keep up with the lies. i.e.) used a condom at first then changed the story and said she didn't. Can't be both.
> 
> I haven't straight out asked her to get tested for STD's, as I had no intention of taking her back. If I decide to, she will definitely need one. She has not told me whether she is pregnant or not, I doubt that she is. Hasn't happened yet doubt it'll happen this month.
> 
> Reconciling and taking her back makes me feel like a ***** and telling her to basically do it again because I'll let her get away with it. It's too easy for her.


Sorry you're in this mess. I've always felt that cheating, no matter what brings it about, is a deal breaker. If someone is unhappy in a marriage, he/she should discuss it with their spouse. Cheating is just a bad way out. But that's my personal opinion, everyone is different. And your friends do seem like they suck though, you realize that right? lol But, I don't blame them for your wife's choice.

It's ultimately your life and decision, but while I do think that your wife has some issues going on, she made a choice that night. If you do reconcile, really reflect on if you imagined your marriage being a parent/child (you're the parent, she's the child) relationship, or one that's an equal partnership. Lots to think over, so maybe don't rush to any decisions right now. While it hurts right now, also think of this whole thing as maybe you don't know those in your life, including your wife, as much as you thought. That's not a flaw on your part, but that happens, sometimes. My mom likes the saying ''what you do when no one is looking, is who you really are.'' 

Hope that you make the right choice for you.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I would very easily be peer pressured and end up in a game like that. I don't want to be the girl who hides in her room. I get embarrassed and I try to fit in and be comfortable and loosen up. Try to hang out and do what the rest were doing. 

If they asked I'd feel bad saying no. I'd feel like the wet blanket. I'd want to try to have fun. 

It just isn't so easy to say she'd never do it. 

I have absolutely had my shyness and inability to stand up for myself and say no taken advantage of and pressured into things like drugs, drinking and sex. 

That's why I'd hope I'd never be left in that situation. It's just not somewhere you leave your wife, especially when she has issues and was uncomfortable.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I would very easily be peer pressured and end up in a game like that. I don't want to be the girl who hides in her room. I get embarrassed and I try to fit in and be comfortable and loosen up. Try to hang out and do what the rest were doing.
> 
> If they asked I'd feel bad saying no. I'd feel like the wet blanket. I'd want to try to have fun.
> 
> It just isn't so easy to say she'd never do it.
> 
> I have absolutely had my shyness and inability to stand up for myself and say no taken advantage of and pressured into things like drugs, drinking and sex.
> 
> That's why I'd hope I'd never be left in that situation. It's just not somewhere you leave your wife, especially when she has issues and was uncomfortable.


You're projecting like crazy and taking it out on the wrong person. You're NOT her.

She was seen being all cuddly with that ********* and has dropped multiple tells about how she was comfortable around the guy over the years.

Many of us would never leave our wives with multiple men...but if they are people you've known for 17 years AND they are all in serious relationships (Including that piece of crap Dan)? There was another female, to boot. She had an ENTIRE goddamn cabin to herself on the property she could have escaped to? She took on the role even when he said he was fine sending them all home, but she insisted?

She's a goddamn adult. No matter the hang ups. I've had social anxieties and major depression (clinical/treated), but I never let that shape my morality and judgement when it came to people I loved. Never used it as a lame-ass excuse to sugarcoat my bad decisions. This lad was too trusting with people in the end. That's his biggest sin. Thinking his wife would do what she usually does and would hide away. Also trust she wouldn't screw his TAKEN friend after a few drinks.

We're arguing about the most pointless things. She screwed up and he has every right to kick her to the curb. Lesson learned is his friends are *******s, his best friend is a lying/cheating prick, and his girlfriend is two faced and possibly a serial cheater. If she even showed an IOTA of being fully truthful without the threat of Dan dropping a dime on her to save his OWN relationship, then maybe I could see some pity and possibility of reconciliation.


----------



## Tobyboy

Jd, can you see your wife's call/text log online? Just wondering if your wife was communicating with Dan before that Saturday night. Or maybe even Friday night.


----------



## VladDracul

jdr8 said:


> Reconciling and taking her back makes me feel like a ***** and telling her to basically do it again because I'll let her get away with it. It's too easy for her.


Why would you want to take her back? I hate to keep whipping this horse but you do conceptualize that her public display shows she has little or no respect for you? (notwithstanding Dan probably got more that night than she gave you in the last weeks before the party. ) If you're looking for full disclosure, good luck but you'll never really know if you got full disclosure.


----------



## scaredlion

Being a bit older and with a hell of a lot more experience in life, here is my two cents worth. It is already established that your wife had sex with someone who was suppose to be your friend. She cheated on you. The question is would she have done so if alcohol had not been involved. I don't know of anyone that hasn't done stupid sh*t when drunk that they would not have done when sober. The man she had sex with is not your friend and anything he says is suspect. Your wife's story has changed some because she is in survival mode, the same place you would be and saying whatever it took, if you were in her shoes. I know very few people who would not try to protect themselves when faced with disaster. No one forced her to get drunk but everyone else was encouraging her to drink, just like you said you have done on occasions. By the description you have given of your wife, it is easy to ascertain that your wife is susceptible to the influence of strong people. Ask yourself if you think she would have gotten as drunk as she did if not for the influence of the people she was with or if you had been there. Now these so called friends of yours. First of all they are not your friends and second if they had been then one of them would have seen what was happening and stopped it from going to where it went. From my perspective what your wife did has to fall on her shoulders but you opened the door for it to happen. Kind of like she fired the gun but you put the bullet in the chamber and cocked the hammer. She just pulled the trigger. You knew how she felt about being around people, especially men. You knew her anxieties and fears. You knew of her lack of confidence in herself. You knew she didn't like to be around a lot of people without you and you still left her with 9 men. I was career military for a good part of my life. I was Special Forces and I know what it is to be called out at all times of the day or night. I am married to a very strong woman and even I would have never consider leaving my wife with 9 men even if they were very good friends. You said she had a choice to stay or go. I say she didn't and I would be willing to bet she was highly influenced to stay so that everyone wouldn't have to drive back home. Yes, what she did was very wrong but you leaving her in that situation was wrong also. I don't know what your job is but I bet it wasn't as important as your marriage. I believe in second chances. I don't believe in third chances. If I were you I would really consider a second chance. Too often we get stuck on the infidelity and totally forget what acts or decisions may have lead up to it. So now everyone can chew me up for my opinion but be advised I have been chewed out by the best and all you will bite on is scar tissue. I do wish you well.


----------



## Satya

DNA your child, if you're so concerned. You can do it discreetly and mail it out for results.

You're both at fault here for poor choices/actions. What she did is terrible. What you did was irresponsible and clouded by blind trust in people you knew from history to be less than trustworthy.

I get that you're angry and overwhelmed, but what are your next steps? *What are you going to do about it?*


----------



## adegirl2016

Your wife and I have very similar personalities. I had something similar happen when I was in college (I was NOT married) but I did cheat on a boyfriend in the same scenario. I really did regret it and felt absolutely terrible and embarrassed. 

I also know how you feel. My husband cheated on me 9 months ago. It feels awful and I can't get the pictures out of my head.

This is going to be a hard road for you either way, because it does seem that when not drinking, your wife is a sweet person. 

I do recommend that you take action now. You can always choose to reconcile later. If there is one thing I wish I had done differently, it would have been to of kicked my husband out and make him work himself make into the home.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

scaredlion said:


> Being a bit older and with a hell of a lot more experience in life, here is my two cents worth. It is already established that your wife had sex with someone who was suppose to be your friend. She cheated on you. The question is would she have done so if alcohol had not been involved. I don't know of anyone that hasn't done stupid sh*t when drunk that they would not have done when sober. The man she had sex with is not your friend and anything he says is suspect. Your wife's story has changed some because she is in survival mode, the same place you would be and saying whatever it took, if you were in her shoes. I know very few people who would not try to protect themselves when faced with disaster. No one forced her to get drunk but everyone else was encouraging her to drink, just like you said you have done on occasions. By the description you have given of your wife, it is easy to ascertain that your wife is susceptible to the influence of strong people. Ask yourself if you think she would have gotten as drunk as she did if not for the influence of the people she was with or if you had been there. Now these so called friends of yours. First of all they are not your friends and second if they had been then one of them would have seen what was happening and stopped it from going to where it went. From my perspective what your wife did has to fall on her shoulders but you opened the door for it to happen. Kind of like she fired the gun but you put the bullet in the chamber and cocked the hammer. She just pulled the trigger. You knew how she felt about being around people, especially men. You knew her anxieties and fears. You knew of her lack of confidence in herself. You knew she didn't like to be around a lot of people without you and you still left her with 9 men. I was career military for a good part of my life. I was Special Forces and I know what it is to be called out at all times of the day or night. I am married to a very strong woman and even I would have never consider leaving my wife with 9 men even if they were very good friends. You said she had a choice to stay or go. I say she didn't and I would be willing to bet she was highly influenced to stay so that everyone wouldn't have to drive back home. Yes, what she did was very wrong but you leaving her in that situation was wrong also. I don't know what your job is but I bet it wasn't as important as your marriage. I believe in second chances. I don't believe in third chances. If I were you I would really consider a second chance. Too often we get stuck on the infidelity and totally forget what acts or decisions may have lead up to it. So now everyone can chew me up for my opinion but be advised I have been chewed out by the best and all you will bite on is scar tissue. I do wish you well.


All of this exactly. 

There are 2 wrongs. It doesn't excuse what she did but she never should have been left there. She said she was uncomfortable and spent the whole first night hiding in her room. She is not some mastermind serial cheater who planned the whole thing. 

But I don't think he should stay with her because he won't be able to move past it. That's totally fine, a lot of people can't. But if you know you can't you shouldn't try to R. It's not fair to either of them.


----------



## TAM2013

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Easy target, yes because she is a quiet and shy woman with anxiety issues. Not because she's a party girl who screws everyone.


Unfortunately for OP, she sounds like both.

I've known girls like this too well. To her trusting and sympathetic husband, she's a gang rape victim. To those "in the know", she's the girl that gang bangs. Any woman who'd genuinely been gang raped WOULD NOT find herself in this position again. Fvck me, a woman who wasn't a mess and who hadn't been gang raped wouldn't find herself in this position unless she wanted to be. It's this kind of sick deception that muddies the waters for genuine rape victims.

Time for a life reboot, OP. Not much this far with your wife and that group of people has been real.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TAM2013 said:


> Unfortunately for OP, she sounds like both.
> 
> I've known girls like this too well. To her trusting and sympathetic husband, she's a gang rape victim. To those "in the know", she's the girl that gang bangs. Any woman who'd genuinely been gang raped WOULD NOT find herself in this position again. Fvck me, a woman who wasn't a mess and who hadn't been gang raped wouldn't find herself in this position unless she wanted to be. It's this kind of sick deception that muddies the waters for genuine rape victims.
> 
> Time for a life reboot, OP. Not much this far with your wife and that group of people has been real.


There was a lot of pressure for her to be in that position. 
She said she didn't want to but the other option was her sending everyone home after driving 3 hours. That makes her the bad guy if she said no. 

He needed to take it on himself. They were his friends, he got called to work. He cancels. He should not have even asked that she stay. It shouldn't have been an option. Even IF he asked, the second she said she was uncomfortable and didn't want to he should have taken the lead to stand up for her and send them all home himself. 

And anyone who thinks a woman who was gangraped is a woman who does gangbangs should never be anywhere with a woman ever. There is nothing in what happened here that suggests she isn't a rape victim.


----------



## Herschel

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> All of this exactly.
> 
> There are 2 wrongs. It doesn't excuse what she did but she never should have been left there. She said she was uncomfortable and spent the whole first night hiding in her room. She is not some mastermind serial cheater who planned the whole thing.
> 
> But I don't think he should stay with her because he won't be able to move past it. That's totally fine, a lot of people can't. But if you know you can't you shouldn't try to R. It's not fair to either of them.


She shouldn't have been left there? Is she a child? And if so, then even more importantly to divorce her. You have no idea what she is besides what the OP has told us. You seem to want to defend her too much...


----------



## TAM2013

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And anyone who thinks a woman who was gangraped is a woman who does gangbangs should never be anywhere with a woman ever.


I think you missed my point.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There is nothing in what happened here that suggests she isn't a rape victim.


Totally agree. If a woman's drunk, you tuck her up in bed alone. Done it a few times.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Herschel said:


> She shouldn't have been left there? Is she a child? And if so, then even more importantly to divorce her. You have no idea what she is besides what the OP has told us. You seem to want to defend her too much...


I dont defend what she did. It was on her regardless. She had plenty of options that she could have done to prevent it and stop it. 

That doesn't change the fact that as a husband, he should not have left his wife in a cabin full of crappy men drinking, she was pressured into staying and didn't want to. It was on him to be the "bad guy" and send everyone home. 
No woman should be left in that situation. One who is shy and has anxiety issues, it is even more important that the husband stands up for her. 

Even if nothing happened there I would be pissed as a wife or girlfriend being put in that situation.


----------



## jdr8

So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

jdr8 said:


> So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


Can you get an intermediary for now to deal with the picking up and dropping off the kids? Even a family member? 
I'd just do everything through the lawyers. Pick one and get things started. If you try to hurt her intentionally through the divorce process it will not look good in court for you. Let the lawyers deal with things without emotions being involved.


----------



## *Deidre*

jdr8 said:


> So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


You'll make it through this. Sorry you find yourself in this situation.


----------



## GusPolinski

Here's the thing, folks: either you believe she was raped or you don't. Personally I don't see the value in doubting it, especially since her behavior sort of aligns with what you might expect to see in someone that had previously been raped, not to mention gangraped.

* Once she realized that OP was leaving, she found herself in a difficult decision in which she was forced -- in her mind -- to choose between a) inconveniencing 10 of his longtime friends that had each driven several hours to get there by asking them to leave or b) attempting to overcome her crippling social anxiety in order to accommodate them. She obviously chose B, and probably because her husband encouraged it. Still, there's that anxiety to deal with: enter alcohol.

* Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.

* After a night of drinking and eroding boundaries, she succumbed, and temptation probably wasn't the key factor -- she needed to keep her protector engaged, and sex was what he wanted.

And, given your group's past encouragement of infidelity, not to mention what has historically been a mutual decision to conceal it, what the **** did you really expect to happen?

Add in the fact that many victims of sexual assault turn to infidelity or promiscuity in an effort to reclaim their consent, and this was a recipe for what happened to happen.

Victims of sexual assault don't process social situations the same way that other people do. It sucks that you didn't realize this, OP, but there it is.


----------



## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


1) Implement the "180" to detach. You can find it on google.

2) Hit the gym, 3 times a week, heavy weights, compound lifts.

3) Diet down to the same BMI you had when you were 21.

4) Keep as busy as you can with work, projects or hobbies.

5) Expedite the divorce, as fast as possible. Get her out of your life.

6) Start grooming yourself, dressing better, chatting up females.

7) After the D is final, start dating and replace your cheat wife with arm candy.


----------



## GusPolinski

jdr8 said:


> So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


Normally I'd advise a course of action very similar to what you've described above, but due primarily to concerns that I've already raised, I'm going to advise that you backpedal on all of ^this^, lest you continue to inflict damage that you cannot undo.

Start by calming the **** down and inviting your wife to come home.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

jdr8 said:


> So where are we/I suppose to go from here? What is the next step? I've kicked her out. I've changed the locks. I've thrown half her **** in the garbage. I've met with lawyers, though I still have to choose one. My wife and I have to meet about custody. We will have a legal agreement but that isn't going to happen immediately and I'm not waiting weeks to see my kid. Where we live custody is always 50/50 unless there is a real reason for it not to be. I'd like to fight for more just to hurt her, but I'm not hurting my child more. Unlike my wife I can actually think of our child first, and not getting my rocks off. I want to get it sorted out asap and the fastest way would be to meet with her, but I don't want to see her or hear her BS excuses and fake tears.


Take her stuff back out of the garbage and put the locks back. Pack her stuff decently. Changing the locks in the marital home could get you in a lot of trouble. Just saying. As far as hurting her the divorce is enough. 

If divorce is what you really want just pick one lawyer and file. You don't need her permission. If you wait for her to cooperate it will be a long wait. If she refuses to let you see the kids have your attorney file a motion demanding she appear in court and show cause. If you want to throw something out throw out the sofa/bed her and Dan used. Send it to where she is staying or where Dan lives. 

As far as meeting your wife (you really have to sooner or later) may I suggest collecting phone logs first. Look for activity before and after the event. Amount of calls, frequency, any texts messaging etc. If there are any when she starts bawling her eyes out pull out printouts and remind her that for a one time event there is an awful lot of collusion going on. You kept in the dark while her and Dan get their story straight. If there are none or a tiny amount well then maybe it really was just a one off bad decision. Either way the decision to divorce or try and reconcile is yours not hers. 

Might want to look at emails too if you have access, or any other social media.


----------



## LosingHim

GusPolinski said:


> Here's the thing, folks: either you believe she was raped or you don't. Personally I don't see the value in doubting it, especially since her behavior sort of aligns with what you might expect to see in someone that had previously been raped, not to mention gangraped.
> 
> * Once she realized that OP was leaving, she found herself in a difficult decision in which she was forced -- in her mind -- to choose between a) inconveniencing 10 of his longtime friends that had each driven several hours to get there by asking them to leave or b) attempting to overcome her crippling social anxiety in order to accommodate them. She obviously chose B, and probably because her husband encouraged it. Still, there's that anxiety to deal with: enter alcohol.
> 
> * Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.
> 
> * After a night of drinking and eroding boundaries, she succumbed, and temptation probably wasn't the key factor -- she needed to keep her protector engaged, and sex was what he wanted.
> 
> And, given your group's past encouragement of infidelity, not to mention what has historically been a mutual decision to conceal it, what the **** did you really expect to happen?
> 
> Add in the fact that many victims of sexual assault turn to infidelity or promiscuity in an effort to reclaim their consent, and this was a recipe for what happened to happen.
> 
> Victims of sexual assault don't process social situations the same way that other people do. It sucks that you didn't realize this, OP, but there it is.


THANK YOU. I KNOW you never side with the wayward (not saying you should or are, I’m saying that you are generally very staunch in the side you stand on) but you have perfectly explained the sh*t storm that was that weekend and why. While she still cheated and it’s still “on” her for doing what she did, how mentally mind f*cked rape, abuse and anxiety victims are will often come into play with how they react to different situations. Doesn’t mean OP has to stay with her, and honestly, it doesn’t really sound like he should. The posts are dripping with hatred and contempt and honestly should he post here that he was choosing R, I’d be concerned with his wives mental state trying to move forward with someone who obviously hates her so much (living that myself right now, just adding in that I’m also betrayed on top of that). 

I get the hurt, I really do. I just told my husband last night that I need to feel something other than pain so badly because it’s consuming me. I cried to God last night and begged him to just take me because I don’t know if I can do it anymore. So yeah, I get it. So divorce her. What is being nasty and going for the jugular going to prove? Get your half, get your 50% custody and move on. Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. I know, easier said than done. Your heart has been ripped to shreds. It’s new, it’s fresh, it hurts like HELL. It’s not where you want your life to be. So stay separated, file for divorce and do your thing. But don’t let hatred and contempt fuel you.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

GusPolinski said:


> Here's the thing, folks: either you believe she was raped or you don't. Personally I don't see the value in doubting it, especially since her behavior sort of aligns with what you might expect to see in someone that had previously been raped, not to mention gangraped.
> 
> * Once she realized that OP was leaving, she found herself in a difficult decision in which she was forced -- in her mind -- to choose between a) inconveniencing 10 of his longtime friends that had each driven several hours to get there by asking them to leave or b) attempting to overcome her crippling social anxiety in order to accommodate them. She obviously chose B, and probably because her husband encouraged it. Still, there's that anxiety to deal with: enter alcohol.
> 
> * Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.
> 
> * After a night of drinking and eroding boundaries, she succumbed, and temptation probably wasn't the key factor -- she needed to keep her protector engaged, and sex was what he wanted.
> 
> And, given your group's past encouragement of infidelity, not to mention what has historically been a mutual decision to conceal it, what the **** did you really expect to happen?
> 
> Add in the fact that many victims of sexual assault turn to infidelity or promiscuity in an effort to reclaim their consent, and this was a recipe for what happened to happen.
> 
> Victims of sexual assault don't process social situations the same way that other people do. It sucks that you didn't realize this, OP, but there it is.


Words of wisdom. I think you are spot on with how the night went. 

A really crappy situation that should have been prevented from the start. It wasn't and ultimately she is responsible for her actions there but I just don't see a conniving serial cheater, party girl who planned the whole thing and was probably sleeping with Dan for months


----------



## *Deidre*

BetrayedDad said:


> 1) Implement the "180" to detach. You can find it on google.
> 
> 2) Hit the gym, 3 times a week, heavy weights, compound lifts.
> 
> 3) Diet down to the same BMI you had when you were 21.
> 
> 4) Keep as busy as you can with work, projects or hobbies.
> 
> 5) Expedite the divorce, as fast as possible. Get her out of your life.
> 
> 6) Start grooming yourself, dressing better, chatting up females.
> 
> 7) After the D is final, start dating and replace your cheat wife with arm candy.


While I realize your advice is to help the OP, staying too busy will not help him to process things. Not for me to judge, but I’ve read some stories on here where people jumped into a new relationship, or sexual flings too fast, and they made a further mess of their lives. Especially with a child involved, bringing new people in and out of your bedroom might really create problems. A new woman won’t ‘get him over’ this. He needs to slow down a bit, and process it all so he can heal and be the best dad he can be for his kid. It’s the children I feel for the most in these horrible situations, they lose out the most. The OP and his wife are adults and can figure out ways to cope, but their child is innocent.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

And losing him, I agree. Gus holds some weight here as someone tough on WWs and doesn't let excuses slide OP. He's not a wayward wife defender so consider that when you read his posts. 


Losinghim- you will be ok. I promise. I won't thread jack but I feel he should not R for.the same reasons you say. It's not fair for either of them and it'll just be a life of hell and punishment for her. 
You don't deserve it. She doesn't deserve it. You will be ok. One day at a time


----------



## badmemory

GusPolinski said:


> * Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.


I think that is spot on Gus. The "familiarity" she had with him so quickly, given her personality. If I were OP, I'd have a hard time believing it never happened before.


----------



## BetrayedDad

*Deidre* said:


> While I realize your advice is to help the OP, staying too busy will not help him to process things. Not for me to judge, but I’ve read some stories on here where people jumped into a new relationship, or sexual flings too fast, and they made a further mess of their lives. Especially with a child involved, bringing new people in and out of your bedroom might really create problems. A new woman won’t ‘get him over’ this. He needs to slow down a bit, and process it all so he can heal and be the best dad he can be for his kid. It’s the children I feel for the most in these horrible situations, they lose out the most. The OP and his wife are adults and can figure out ways to cope, but their child is innocent.


Stay busy as in fixing up an old car or building a shed. Constantly thinking about what you cant control isn't helpful. It helps to focus on other things like swinging a hammer if only for a few hours.

OP should not date until the divorce is final and even then I'd wait 3-6 months to make sure my head was on straight. He shouldn't date to get over someone but dating will be a big factor in his healing.

You are 100% right about feeling bad for the kids. OP will be rewarded with a better SO eventually but the kids are stuck with a home wrecker for a mother. She owns that guilt not him.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

badmemory said:


> I think that is spot on Gus. The "familiarity" she had with him so quickly, given her personality. If I were OP, I'd have a hard time believing it never happened before.


I really doubt she had slept with him before. He was just the one person she felt comfortable with. Op mentioned they were a lot alike so she clung to him as her protector for the night.


----------



## NJ2

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Words of wisdom. I think you are spot on with how the night went.
> 
> A really crappy situation that should have been prevented from the start. It wasn't and ultimately she is responsible for her actions there but I just don't see a conniving serial cheater, party girl who planned the whole thing and was probably sleeping with Dan for months


Here! Here! When I read Gus's post I was like WHAAAAT? He rarely if ever takes a stand like that. It hadnt occurred to me that that was a likely reaction under the circumstance. It makes so much sense. He sounds like hes raining words of wisdom and you need to get soaked!.


----------



## BetrayedDad

> Op mentioned they were a lot alike so she clung to him as her protector for the night


Protection from what? She had sex anyway... Willingly


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> Protection from what? She had sex anyway...


Ya well Dan and the rest the friends suck and are crappy people. Doesn't sound like a good one in the whole bunch. 

It's typical for a shy, introverted person to cling to someone as their protector for the night if they are uncomfortable. Thankfully for me this is usually a bf/husband, good friend or family member. I don't go places I don't have someone there to be my person for the night.


----------



## Vinnydee

First time I cheated I blamed it was because I was drunk but somehow managed to drive from the Airport to a hotel further away than our home. The two women who cheated on me were stoned. Seems that so much cheating is started by drinking or maybe it is an attempt to redirect the blame. It was no me doing it, it was the alcohol. That does not work for drug driving and should not work for cheating for the same exact reasons. You are responsible for getting drunk and everything at happens as a result.

Alcohol lowers inhibitions but it rarely makes you do things that you do not want to do. It just allows you to do those things that you want to do but are inhibited from doing by a marriage contract for instance. I call BS.

The other part is that the other spouse is desperately looking for any excuse to blame it on someone other than their spouse. Have you ever noticed that when confronted, the cheated on spouse goes after the the person cheating with their spouse. He stole her away somehow. 

You are displaying classic symptoms of grasping at straws to find a reason to not blame your wife for her actions. First off I would not be upset if my wife confessed that she cheated 7 years ago. It is over and done with. I think it is never a good idea to confess cheating. It is a selfish act by the cheater to get rid of their guilt by dumping it on their mate. Just like what has happened to you. She relieved her guilt and dumped the problem on you. If you do not know, it never happened and life goes on. Once you know it will eat you up wanting to know all the details. The whys, whos and wheres. You will wonder if the other guy had a bigger penis, was better in bed, richer, more successful, etc.. Did you thank your wife for telling you? 

I was not in a monogamous marriage after the first time I cheated. I had come from a poly relationship and after having my ex fiancé cheat on me, and then another girlfriend. I saw the cheating and divorce rate and decided to try ethical non monogamy and polyamory. We are happily married for 45 years while all of our friends and siblings are divorced, most due to cheating. 

I was once asked if I ever wondered if my wife was cheating on me during my annual 3 months overseas on business. I told the guy that even if she was having sex with two guys a day, it has not made even a ripple in our marriage, we are both happy and prospering, so who cares. Only humans elevate sex to more than it is. Every animal can have sex and then go about their business. Society structed our marriage system and imposed monogamy as a way to bring order to the world. It is not our natural state as witnessed by a 50% divorce rate and even high cheating rate. We did not build our marriage on a foundation of monogamy. That is an unstable foundation. We built our marriage on the certain knowledge that we would be together for the rest of our lives and 45 years later here we are. My wife does not ask me what I did and I do not tell. The same for her. I do not own her body or exclusive rights to her sexual pleasure. I do not care who she had sex with since our marriage prospered either because of it or in spite of it. Let it go or you will never find peace. I never asked the two women who the guy was, how they met, what they did and how many times, etc.. I did not care. I had to make a decision to accept what they did or leave them. I chose to leave them because my experience is that someone who has cheated is prone to do it again. Can you trust a women who will have sex with others if they take a few drinks?


----------



## GusPolinski

badmemory said:


> I think that is spot on Gus. The "familiarity" she had with him so quickly, given her personality. If I were OP, I'd have a hard time believing it never happened before.


That's fair.

Maybe she was keen to the fact that Dan was into her. Hell, maybe she was into him.

Maybe they're still talking. Actually, they probably are. It makes sense that she would turn to the guy that she chose once her husband left now that he's essentially left her again. Whether or not they're doing more than that, though... 

Hell, maybe that's what she wanted to happen. Maybe that's why she confessed to her husband.

OP's thoughts are doubtlessly -- and understandably -- all over the map here.

But right now his vitriol is doing damage that he's not going to be able to undo, and whether they wind up reconciling or not, that damage will live on in his relationship with his kid.

I don't have an answer on the reconcile vs divorce decision. It's usually a very easy decision. Either he hangs his decision on the actual act of infidelity, ignoring all the other concerns that so many of us have already raised, or he resigns himself to committing the rest of his life to someone who is so woefully broken that she made the decisions that she did.

But if he's any kind of decent person (or wants to be), years from now he's going to look back at this time in his life and wish that he'd handled things differently.

And remember this, OP:

Whatever you decide, you need to realize that she gave you something that the overwhelming majority of betrayed spouses NEVER get.

She told you. She came clean -- willingly, and of her own accord.

She realized that she was accountable to you for her actions and laid them bare before you.

She made herself vulnerable to you in a way that 99.9% of waywards don't. She gave you information that she felt you deserved to have in order to decide for yourself whether or not you wanted to remain in this marriage.

And she didn't do it years or decades later.

You have idea how very rare that is.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

This is me at any gathering. An animal is also acceptable. I spend a dinner party talking to fish the whole night. My ex was bad about leaving me behind, always there but ignoring me. So I'd talk to the pets. If no pets I'd hide. 

One of his friends would try to include me. I felt ok with him. He seemed nice and would actually talk to me so he was my safe person. Then he grabbed my butt once while I was still with my ex, I brushed it off cause he was drunk and I didn't want to cause problems. But he wasn't my safe person anymore. He tried to contact me after I left my ex. I feel let down by my "safe" person really just being someone who wanted to bang me.


----------



## GusPolinski

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And losing him, I agree. Gus holds some weight here as someone tough on WWs and doesn't let excuses slide OP. He's not a wayward wife defender so consider that when you read his posts.


I'm tough on waywards PERIOD -- not just WWs.


----------



## ButtPunch

GusPolinski said:


> That's fair.
> 
> She told you. She came clean -- willingly, and of her own accord.


She had too. She knew you would find out.

Damage control.


----------



## GusPolinski

ButtPunch said:


> She had too. She knew you would find out.
> 
> Damage control.


Eh... _maybe_.

But even that doesn't compel most waywards to come clean.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Exactly, guys talk. 9 witnesses. She had no choice. It was only a matter of time.

Let's not pretend she is some noble creature at least.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... _maybe_.
> 
> But even that doesn't compel most waywards to come clean.


I would expect a typical wayward to go the "he raped me, I blacked out, I was unconscious, I don't remember anything" route if she feared being caught. Anything to avoid claiming responsibility for it


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> Exactly, guys talk. 9 witnesses. She had no choice. It was only a matter of time.


LOL. Not _these_ guys. They don't say ****.


----------



## *Deidre*

@jdr8 - where is your wife living now?


----------



## TaDor

jdr8 : I'm with Gus on this one.

If your wife is timid the way you say she is, and her history. Yeah, I can see her pressured and giving in to her actions at the party. Lets see. First - YOUR FRIENDS PRESSURED HER to drink, knowing full well that she rarely EVER drinks. Now that she is drunk, she is feeling good and confident... she is not thinking of bad memories. She is being drunk and stupid. And I have done stupid things when DRUNK, the brain goes "oh well". But I think after the event, it created a connection to continue talking to him afterwards. This is most likely a ONS thing - that would NOT have happened if YOUR FRIENDS didn't get her wasted.

3 weeks later, NONE of your *FRIENDS* said a word to you. Hmmmmm.

You admit that you and some of your friends did NOTHING when one of you were cheating. So you should reflect on yourself on that.

Your wife screwed up. But she is doing what most do not... 
Talk to her. She doesn't get 100% the blame. You get none of the blame.

But what you are doing know, in consideration of things... not healthy or good for anyone.

PS: Women of past rape, are acceptable to future rapes and other issues. A lot can happen to a person after that.


----------



## LosingHim

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> This is me at any gathering. An animal is also acceptable. I spend a dinner party talking to fish the whole night. My ex was bad about leaving me behind, always there but ignoring me. So I'd talk to the pets. If no pets I'd hide.
> 
> One of his friends would try to include me. I felt ok with him. He seemed nice and would actually talk to me so he was my safe person. Then he grabbed my butt once while I was still with my ex, I brushed it off cause he was drunk and I didn't want to cause problems. But he wasn't my safe person anymore. He tried to contact me after I left my ex. I feel let down by my "safe" person really just being someone who wanted to bang me.


I do this too. I find what I call my “safe person”. I will usually cling to that person the majority of the night. It can be a man, a woman, a child or an animal. If I’m petting the dog, then at least I’m not making awkward conversation with someone who doesn’t want to talk to me. You’d be amazed how long I can sit and pet one dog. My husbands cousin had a Fourth of July party this year. I don’t know his cousins from this uncle real well. They both went through a rough patch where they did some crappy things and J didn’t speak to them much for a while. They both grew up and changed and J started hanging around them again. The party was outside at a large house so unless I went and sat directly with someone, I was on my own. I didn’t know anyone but J and he was busy out in the field with the guys setting up fireworks and doing “man stuff”. I couldn’t find a safe person. No one there took charge of talking to me and I can’t approach strangers. No poor woe is me, it’s just not something I can do. It’s no one’s responsibility to entertain me, but if someone doesn’t approach me, I’m paralyzed. So his garage is finished, has TV’s and a bar and a bathroom, etc. He has a huge dog who lives outside and doesn’t get much attention. Guess who I spent the whole night with? The dog. There were probably close to 50 people there. I hung out with the dog until it was time for fireworks. Last year there was a woman there who kind of took me under her wing, chatted me up and invited me to sit with the women at the table and have some wine. She was my safe person. I didn’t have a safe person this year.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I also doubt this would have happened if not for the specific circumstances and series of events that happened. 

That is different from typical waywards who will find a way to cheat. 

This was a nightmare waiting to happen from the start. Immoral friends who don't support marriage boundaries, wife alone and uncomfortable and no one she was safe with, drinking and pressure. 

It should have been prevented. 

But I still don't think R is a solution given his anger. He can't be blamed for his anger but he thinks she's a ***** and wants to hurt her. He should not attempt to R with these feelings. It will just further traumatize them both.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

LosingHim said:


> I do this too. I find what I call my “safe person”. I will usually cling to that person the majority of the night. It can be a man, a woman, a child or an animal. If I’m petting the dog, then at least I’m not making awkward conversation with someone who doesn’t want to talk to me. You’d be amazed how long I can sit and pet one dog. My husbands cousin had a Fourth of July party this year. I don’t know his cousins from this uncle real well. They both went through a rough patch where they did some crappy things and J didn’t speak to them much for a while. They both grew up and changed and J started hanging around them again. The party was outside at a large house so unless I went and sat directly with someone, I was on my own. I didn’t know anyone but J and he was busy out in the field with the guys setting up fireworks and doing “man stuff”. I couldn’t find a safe person. No one there took charge of talking to me and I can’t approach strangers. No poor woe is me, it’s just not something I can do. It’s no one’s responsibility to entertain me, but if someone doesn’t approach me, I’m paralyzed. So his garage is finished, has TV’s and a bar and a bathroom, etc. He has a huge dog who lives outside and doesn’t get much attention. Guess who I spent the whole night with? The dog. There were probably close to 50 people there. I hung out with the dog until it was time for fireworks. Last year there was a woman there who kind of took me under her wing, chatted me up and invited me to sit with the women at the table and have some wine. She was my safe person. I didn’t have a safe person this year.


Part of me hates the safe person coming to swoop in to save me because it makes me feel like I've clearly shown I'm awkward and uncomfortable and need rescuing but if I have someone to sit with and talk to I feel so much better. 

I'm good talking to the dog. I've perfected the art of the "I have an important text message" look when I'm suddenly somewhere awkward and alone. My entire outings are planned around how to do it in the least awkward way possible and I am very aware that hiding makes me more awkward and I have to join and try to be social. I spent one night with the same drink in my hand because everyone was trying to get me to drink so I just held on to one to look like I was so people would stop handing them to me and I wouldn't have to keep saying no thanks. 

People who don't understand just won't. I've had people say well just go, fit in, talk to people. Thanks, I'm cured now.


----------



## GusPolinski

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *Part of me hates the safe person coming to swoop in to save me because it makes me feel like I've clearly shown I'm awkward and uncomfortable and need rescuing but if I have someone to sit with and talk to I feel so much better.*
> 
> I'm good talking to the dog. I've perfected the art of the "I have an important text message" look when I'm suddenly somewhere awkward and alone. My entire outings are planned around how to do it in the least awkward way possible and I am very aware that hiding makes me more awkward and I have to join and try to be social. I spent one night with the same drink in my hand because everyone was trying to get me to drink so I just held on to one to look like I was so people would stop handing them to me and I wouldn't have to keep saying no thanks.
> 
> People who don't understand just won't. I've had people say well just go, fit in, talk to people. Thanks, I'm cured now.


Consider that _you_, in turn, might be your safe person's safe person.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But I still don't think R is a solution given his anger. He can't be blamed for his anger but he thinks she's a ***** and wants to hurt her. He should not attempt to R with these feelings. It will just further traumatize them both.


He should be angry. Very angry.

Far too often here on TAM the WS isn't angry enough.

She betrayed you OP. 

I don't care if shes broken or not. 

Whatever her problems are.....SHE BETRAYED YOU!


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There was a lot of pressure for her to be in that position.
> She said she didn't want to but the other option was her sending everyone home after driving 3 hours. That makes her the bad guy if she said no.
> 
> He needed to take it on himself. They were his friends, he got called to work. He cancels. He should not have even asked that she stay. It shouldn't have been an option. Even IF he asked, the second she said she was uncomfortable and didn't want to he should have taken the lead to stand up for her and send them all home himself.
> 
> And anyone who thinks a woman who was gangraped is a woman who does gangbangs should never be anywhere with a woman ever. There is nothing in what happened here that suggests she isn't a rape victim.


It's not that easy sometimes. He's obviously the breadwinner and has the finances on his shoulders. If your company calls you in when they are in dire straights (he even said it was due to 2 people quitting), you don't have the luxury of saying no when you're at certain positions in a company and could lose your job/position in the long run.

I'll agree, though. If he felt she was being pressured, he should have sent her home. Though in the end, she still cheated and it's irrelevant. She even wasn't planning to tell him anything until Dan told his long time girlfriend and friends started giving details weeks later. Also you gloss over that she's been in the position before with the parties WITH her husband. If she was so easy to influence, you would think he'd be the best at doing it via pressure. This time she didn't hide away (When it was an easy thing to do) on their own PROPERTY. She stayed, yucked it up while playing dirty games, and drank. Then got touchy feely with a guy she admitted she felt very comfortable around and has a TRACK record of going near with her kids ALONE. 

In the end, she comes off as someone that took advantage of an opportunity. She probably gave one tell that she possibly would make a bad decision and THEN changed her mind.

If her issues are that bad, then she needs to figure out after the divorce with a shrink. As far as I see, she isn't feeling much guilt outside of being forced to spill the beans.

You need to understand. Manipulators also use victim mentalities to justify what they do to themselves. Then they don't have to feel guilty about it later. Even go as far as to make up stories of rape/gangrapes. I know. My mother was that type of women and would lie through her teeth when cheating on my father. He bought it for 30 years before she left him, ran his name through the mud (abuse, neglecting her, etc), and got engaged to another sucker in less than a year. She was always the victim, even when we would do family therapy and she would flat out tell me she didn't have to apologize to me about her abuse because she had it so rough in life and that I should just man up. I was 9 years old.

I have zero patience for people with persecution complexes. ANYONE with an ounce of guilt would come clean immediately and try to tell what led to it. Was completely honest and admitted they caved in due to whatever it was that was affecting her mentally. Hang-ups/traumas or NOT, if you feel bad for what you do, you don't hide it as long as possible until you KNOW people will give you up. That's the sign of a manipulator.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

GusPolinski said:


> Consider that _you_, in turn, might be your safe person's safe person.


Yes, if I meet another awkward person we both help each other. Sometimes it's the social butterfly pointing out "Hey! Quiet girl in the corner, come join us. Don't be shy, we don't bite!!" 

and they mean well but it's attention like the waiter singing you happy birthday in a restaurant and I hate it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ltsandwich said:


> It's not that easy sometimes. He's obviously the breadwinner and has the finances on his shoulders. If your company calls you in when they are in dire straights (he even said it was due to 2 people quitting), you don't have the luxury of saying no when you're at certain positions in a company and could lose your job/position in the long run.
> 
> I'll agree, though. If he felt she was being pressured, he should have sent her home. Though in the end, she still cheated and it's irrelevant. She even wasn't planning to tell him anything until Dan told his long time girlfriend and friends started giving details weeks later. Also you gloss over that she's been in the position before with the parties WITH her husband. If she was so easy to influence, you would think he'd be the best at doing it via pressure. This time she didn't hide away (When it was an easy thing to do) on their own PROPERTY. She stayed, yucked it up while playing dirty games, and drank. Then got touchy feely with a guy she admitted she felt very comfortable around and has a TRACK record of going near with her kids ALONE.
> 
> In the end, she comes off as someone that took advantage of an opportunity. She probably gave one tell that she possibly would make a bad decision and THEN changed her mind.
> 
> If her issues are that bad, then she needs to figure out after the divorce with a shrink. As far as I see, she isn't feeling much guilt outside of being forced to spill the beans.
> 
> You need to understand. Manipulators also use victim mentalities to justify what they do to themselves. Then they don't have to feel guilty about it later. Even go as far as to make up stories of rape/gangrapes. I know. My mother was that type of women and would lie through her teeth when cheating on my father. He bought it for 30 years before she left him, ran his name through the mud (abuse, neglecting her, etc), and got engaged to another sucker in less than a year. She was always the victim, even when we would do family therapy and she would flat out tell me she didn't have to apologize to me about her abuse because she had it so rough in life and that I should just man up. I was 9 years old.
> 
> I have zero patience for people with persecution complexes. ANYONE with an ounce of guilt would come clean immediately and try to tell what led to it. Was completely honest and admitted they caved in due to whatever it was that was affecting her mentally. Hang-ups/traumas or NOT, if you feel bad for what you do, you don't hide it as long as possible until you KNOW people will give you up. That's the sign of a manipulator.



He needed to send his friends home, not her. They couldn't stay if she didn't and since he was the one leaving and they were his friends it was on him to send them home. She had to make the choice to stay or send his friends home who had just driven hours to get there. 

She did hide away the first night. Probably felt really uncomfortable and tried to fit in the next. 

I see no reason to not believe that she was gang raped before. 

You're confusing me thinking she shouldn't have been put in that situation with thinking she is excused for her actions. Two separate things.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Part of me hates the safe person coming to swoop in to save me because it makes me feel like I've clearly shown I'm awkward and uncomfortable and need rescuing but if I have someone to sit with and talk to I feel so much better.
> 
> I'm good talking to the dog. I've perfected the art of the "I have an important text message" look when I'm suddenly somewhere awkward and alone. My entire outings are planned around how to do it in the least awkward way possible and I am very aware that hiding makes me more awkward and I have to join and try to be social. I spent one night with the same drink in my hand because everyone was trying to get me to drink so I just held on to one to look like I was so people would stop handing them to me and I wouldn't have to keep saying no thanks.
> 
> People who don't understand just won't. I've had people say well just go, fit in, talk to people. Thanks, I'm cured now.


See, right THERE is where I see a difference. You attempted to adjust to your hang-ups. I did the same with my social anxieties. You have ways to avoid being pressured into things you don't want to do while still trying to maintaining the facade that you actually want to be there. 

NOW, as a person that went through the same situations...when you WANTED to do something, but couldn't bring yourself to do it due to fear/reluctance, it was that small push from people that made you do it. She got that push and ran with it.

You're self aware and have some semblance of giving a damn. She obviously wasn't and didn't.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He needed to send his friends home, not her. They couldn't stay if she didn't and since he was the one leaving and they were his friends it was on him to send them home. She had to make the choice to stay or send his friends home who had just driven hours to get there.
> 
> She did hide away the first night. Probably felt really uncomfortable and tried to fit in the next.
> 
> I see no reason to not believe that she was gang raped before.
> 
> You're confusing me thinking she shouldn't have been put in that situation with thinking she is excused for her actions. Two separate things.


By how hard you people are in explaining away her actions and blaming the person that was cheated on...yeah, I feel like they are not being separated. I think he gets it now that his friends are **** and she should not have left his wife there due to being so trusting and just taking at face value her wanting to "Step out of her comfort zone" when she said it was fine for her to stay.

It's like people are ignoring every-other-sign of a manipulative/serial-cheating spouse because her supposed traumas. Like the not being truthful and the back history with the man she slept with. Also she is. An. ADULT. She had a CHOICE. He's worrying about work and blowing off his friends/ending a good weekend with his wife because of HIS adult responsibilities. He doesn't seem the type that likes to bark out orders and come off as controlling. He gave her OPTIONS as his PARTNER and she chose to go the route she did. 

Funny how she has hang ups, and it's a rationalizing fest for her behavior...but because his personality type is not pushy/overly alpha male (Which is probably the entire reason she married him), he's blamed for the situation while she is only SLIGHTLY given fault because she has anxiety issues. That's what I gather. Note, I'm the type that will side with reconciling many times than not when they show TRUE remorse and don't come off as manipulative.

I have plenty of experience with manipulation and victim complexes(and anxieties) to know when someone is full of crap. She sets that warning bell off for me with her behavior/choices so far.


----------



## GusPolinski

Actually, there was a third option that no one seemed to consider --

OP and his wife _both_ leave, and he leaves the keys with his friends.

Easy peasy.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ltsandwich said:


> See, right THERE is where I see a difference. You attempted to adjust to your hang-ups. I did the same with my social anxieties. You have ways to avoid being pressured into things you don't want to do while still trying to maintaining the facade that you actually want to be there.
> 
> NOW, as a person that went through the same situations...when you WANTED to do something, but couldn't bring yourself to do it due to fear/reluctance, it was that small push from people that made you do it. She got that push and ran with it.
> 
> You're self aware and have some semblance of giving a damn. She obviously wasn't and didn't.


Yes, she should have prevented it. It is still on her to prevent it. That is 100% her wrong, her responsibility. 

Before I learned how to mange pressures and hang-ups I had been put in situations where I drank, did drugs or had sex without wanting to. Not rape, my own bad choices for not doing more to prevent it but it certainly didn't mean that I deep down wanted to and was just looking for an excuse. 

I also would never be left in a situation like the OPs wife was. There's no way. I'd force my bf to send his friends home, not me, him. He'd tell them "I'm sorry but work came up and WE can't stay" Not work came up and my wife doesn't want to stay. If he put that on me, if there was any pressure that I stay even though I told him I wasn't uncomfortable it would be a big problem.


----------



## GusPolinski

ltsandwich said:


> By how hard you people are in explaining away her actions and blaming the person that was cheated on...yeah, I feel like they are not being separated. I think he gets it now that his friends are **** and she should not have left his wife there due to being so trusting and just taking at face value her wanting to "Step out of her comfort zone" when she said it was fine for her to stay.
> 
> It's like people are ignoring every-other-sign of a manipulative/serial-cheating spouse because her supposed traumas. Like the not being truthful and the back history with the man she slept with. Also she is. An. ADULT. She had a CHOICE. He's worrying about work and blowing off his friends/ending a good weekend with his wife because of HIS adult responsibilities. He doesn't seem the type that likes to bark out orders and come off as controlling. He gave her OPTIONS as his PARTNER and she chose to go the route she did.
> 
> Funny how she has hang ups, and it's a rationalizing fest for her behavior...but because his personality type is not pushy/overly alpha male (Which is probably the entire reason she married him), he's blamed for the situation while she is only SLIGHTLY given fault because she has anxiety issues. That's what I gather. Note, I'm the type that will side with reconciling many times than not when they show TRUE remorse and don't come off as manipulative.
> 
> I have plenty of experience with manipulation and victim complexes(and anxieties) to know when someone is full of crap. She sets that warning bell off for me with her behavior/choices so far.


No one is ignoring anything, me least of all.

Stick around, though.

You might learn some stuff.


----------



## ltsandwich

GusPolinski said:


> Actually, there was a third option that no one seemed to consider --
> 
> OP and his wife _both_ leave, and he leaves the keys with his friends.
> 
> Easy peasy.


He said it was because of certain things this wasn't possible...but I think he should have just done that. I would have. Everyone has phones. They could call if they run into any issues. /sighs


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, she should have prevented it. It is still on her to prevent it. That is 100% her wrong, her responsibility.
> 
> Before I learned how to mange pressures and hang-ups I had been put in situations where I drank, did drugs or had sex without wanting to. Not rape, my own bad choices for not doing more to prevent it but it certainly didn't mean that I deep down wanted to and was just looking for an excuse.
> 
> I also would never be left in a situation like the OPs wife was. There's no way. I'd force my bf to send his friends home, not me, him. He'd tell them "I'm sorry but work came up and WE can't stay" Not work came up and my wife doesn't want to stay. If he put that on me, if there was any pressure that I stay even though I told him I wasn't uncomfortable it would be a big problem.



Well, she's going to wake up after this divorce, for sure. OP seems to have his mind made up pretty solid.

I've been there and know, but too bad hindsight is 20/20, even when finally finding a healthy balance with one's psyche. If she's not a manipulator, hopefully she'll take all these lessons to heart in her next relationship. 

Sounds like he was there for her, mostly, but he is who he is. He can't take care of her 100 percent of the time. She'll have to grow as a person to be happy and help keep her next love happy. We're all broken creatures, but if you love someone, you have to move past that because they're in the same boat...just a different seat. Thought maybe she needs a more dominant personality to be with in the future if that's what it's going to take to keep her from making poor decisions and if she never intends to learn to stand up for herself.

Sorry if I've come off as abrasive or anything. Not my intent...I'm just passionate in the opposite line of thinking as you. Funny enough, I do agree with you...but I don't think she is the same type of person as you. Your self-awareness and want to grow/adjust is a good thing. Also you don't seem like the type that manipulates.


----------



## ltsandwich

GusPolinski said:


> No one is ignoring anything, me least of all.
> 
> Stick around, though.
> 
> You might learn some stuff.


Been learning enough in this last year, for sure. I only knew one side of things and now I open up to others. A year before finding this site, I would NEVER forgive a cheater or think they could POSSIBLY be good people.

Now I know that's not always the case. Unfortunately, I don't agree on that in this scenario.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ltsandwich said:


> Well, she's going to wake up after this divorce, for sure. OP seems to have his mind made up pretty solid.
> 
> I've been there and know, but too bad hindsight is 20/20, even when finally finding a healthy balance with one's psyche. If she's not a manipulator, hopefully she'll take all these lessons to heart in her next relationship.
> 
> Sounds like he was there for her, mostly, but he is who he is. He can't take care of her 100 percent of the time. She'll have to grow as a person to be happy and help keep her next love happy. We're all broken creatures, but if you love someone, you have to move past that because they're in the same boat...just a different seat. Thought maybe she needs a more dominant personality to be with in the future if that's what it's going to take to keep her from making poor decisions and if she never intends to learn to stand up for herself.
> 
> Sorry if I've come off as abrasive or anything. Not my intent...I'm just passionate in the opposite line of thinking as you. Funny enough, I do agree with you...but I don't think she is the same type of person as you. Your self-awareness and want to grow/adjust is a good thing. Also you don't seem like the type that manipulates.


I don't feel she did manipulate. My self awareness has come from a lot of stupid choices, bad situations and crappy people. It's a shame she made stupid choices in a bad situation with crappy people, but she did and is now paying the price for it. 

I do need a dominant partner, and I have one, to help look out for me. He takes a protector role and stands up for me as well as helps me break out of my shell and gain confidence. OP's wife does likely also need someone more dominant and supportive to help her stand up for herself when she can't or to be her safe person. I would just expect my bf to take the leading role in the situation when he had to go to work and not put it on me.


----------



## MyRevelation

GusPolinski said:


> I actually feel bad for your wife. Not sure why, but I do.
> 
> Either way, your ENTIRE circle of friends is ****.
> 
> Seriously, every single one of them.
> 
> If your wife hadn't told you about what happened you'd have never known. Not a single one of your **** friends would've ever told you, and good ol' Dan would be making every attempt at getting her back in the sack every time your back was turned.
> 
> Just like none of the other woman's **** friends ever told her fiancé what happened with whoever it was that she was beating off in front of everyone.
> 
> And do you SERIOUSLY think it stopped at that?
> 
> _Come on._


I agree with your original premise above. This is a complete **** show ... there are no innocents here. OP's WW is a **** ... I'm sorry but OP's descriptions of his W just don't match her actions. Non-**** people don't take their shirt off and cuddle with their H's friend in front of 8 other "friends". Non-**** people don't get naked and have sex in the living room where 8 other people they know are sleeping or roaming around elsewhere in the house. Non-**** people don't screw their friends W. Non-**** people don't keep their dirty secret from their supposed "friend".

Another thing that stood out to me. OP said he never confirmed the WW's prior rape story. Given the circumstances, that could very well be a minimized story to excuse her current actions and given the WW's recent behavior, it was more than likely a consensual gang bang that she later found the need to concoct a story to whitewash her ****ty past ... and let's not forget that WW had already admitted an attraction to "Dan". This occasion was likely one of "opportunity", but given how comfortable she acted with "Dan", then I'd venture a guess that this wasn't the first "opportunity", like the other 3-4 trips made to the cottage without OP (yeah, I know, she took the kid, but if you'll do "Dan" in front of OP's "friends", you'll find a way to stash the kid or find something for him to do outside or take a nap ... cheaters are devious).

Most of us have had to learn the hard lesson that we didn't know our spouse as well as we thought. OP seems to be a lot like ForTheRecord, in that he hasn't accepted that reality about his WW, yet.

I also agree with whoever posted that given this particular fact set, OP simply can not reconcile this without forfeiting his self-respect. He needs to cut all of these ****s out of his life and cultivate a higher quality group of friends, but given some of his statements, he may very well be as big of a **** as the rest of them. As I said, there are no innocents in this scenario.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't feel she did manipulate. My self awareness has come from a lot of stupid choices, bad situations and crappy people. It's a shame she made stupid choices in a bad situation with crappy people, but she did and is now paying the price for it.
> 
> I do need a dominant partner, and I have one, to help look out for me. He takes a protector role and stands up for me as well as helps me break out of my shell and gain confidence. OP's wife does likely also need someone more dominant and supportive to help her stand up for herself when she can't or to be her safe person. I would just expect my bf to take the leading role in the situation when he had to go to work and not put it on me.


That's a great thing. I hope everything continues to go good for you. Your relationship seems like it's an optimal fit for where you feel weak. I'm sure you provide him with great strengths, too.

That's my take from what I've read, but you never know. We don't have her side of things to really get the best picture. I think OP is going the optimal route since he seems to be hurt beyond the possible mentioning of reconciliation. In the end it's his feelings at that matter and what he feels is the truth of the matter. (He seems to think there was long-term cheating)

If she was just a poor sap placed in a crappy situation, then hopefully she'll find someone that will speak the right love language and have the best personality to keep her in check. Keep her out of situations that will end very badly. Either way, I wish them both the best because more suffering in the world won't make anyone more happy. (Except maybe sociopaths.)


----------



## Roselyn

OP, leave this circle of friends. These are not friends to keep to support healthy marriages & families. As for your wife, she cheated and that is on her. You are an alpha male with a weak wife. I am a career woman (alpha female), 59 years old, married for 37 years (first time for the both of us) to an alpha male. My husband left his childhood friends as he sensed that they liked me very much when we were dating. I do not drink nor flirt. His clue was that they asked so many questions about me. We go to social parties together and leave together.

If you wish to keep your marriage, you'll need to see a marriage counselor. Your marriage is dead & you'll have to rebuild from the ashes. You cannot change your wife and you must see her for who she is. Sorry that you are here.


----------



## GusPolinski

ltsandwich said:


> Been learning enough in this last year, for sure. I only knew one side of things and now I open up to others. A year before finding this site, I would NEVER forgive a cheater or think they could POSSIBLY be good people.
> 
> Now I know that's not always the case. Unfortunately, I don't agree on that in this scenario.


Hopefully you've learned at least this...

First, not all who cheat are the same. Many are close enough to what most tend to view as the archetype that the details don't matter, but there ARE outliers. (And I believe this to be one of them.)

Second, not all affairs are the same.

Now work on this...

The trauma of sexual assault fundamentally changes people, and almost never for the better.

If what OP has related to us thus far is to be believed, his wife hasn't been changed so much that she doesn't feel remorse for her actions. In spite of what she's done, that is a good thing.

I get that he may decide to divorce, and that's understandable. Still, there's no need for the constant demonization.

IMO the thing he should be questioning at this moment is the condom/no condom thing, and if it turns out that she _is_ pregnant with OMs kid, I'd press him to divorce.

But as amicably as possible.


----------



## ButtPunch

GusPolinski said:


> Hopefully you've learned at least this...
> 
> First, not all who cheat are the same. Many are close enough to what most tend to view as the archetype that the details don't matter, but there ARE outliers. (And I believe this to be one of them.)
> 
> Second, not all affairs are the same.
> 
> Now work on this...
> 
> The trauma of sexual assault fundamentally changes people, and almost never for the better.
> 
> If what OP has related to us thus far is to be believed, his wife hasn't been changed so much that she doesn't feel remorse for her actions. In spite of what she's done, that is a good thing.
> 
> I get that he may decide to divorce, and that's understandable. Still, there's no need for the constant demonization.
> 
> IMO the thing he should be questioning at this moment is the condom/no condom thing, and if it turns out that she _is_ pregnant with OMs kid, I'd press him to divorce.
> 
> But as amicably as possible.


I can go along with this

I don't think this WW is the typical narcissist we see

Childhood trauma is terrible

Hurt people do hurt people

However....OP probably doesnt need to risk getting hurt again


----------



## *Deidre*

What I feel badly for the OP's wife about is that she has a lot of issues perhaps, that need to be sorted out in therapy. Enabling someone to remain unhealthy and dysfunctional like this, isn't helping her at all. If she is truly scared to be around men, crowds, etc then she needs help to progress past some of those tough issues leading her to feel that way. She is capable of living a healthier life than she already is. My hope for her is that she learns from this, and no matter what happens with the marriage, she seeks therapy to help her get better and live a more productive life for herself and for her child.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I have never felt I needed to fix myself to be more comfortable in crowds or groups of men without a safe person. I do things to prevent awkwardness but I'm ok not being a group person. 
It is just part of who I am and I'm ok with that. Most is simple introvertedness which is not a flaw. Anxiety meds help me deal with day to day. Why I'd want to learn how to be in crowds of men is beyond me. I'd rather stay home, I'm perfectly happy there. When I'm talking to the dog I'm not wishing I was more extroverted and social. I just enjoy talking to the dog more than the group. 
I'm also fine when I have someone with me that I trust. I have no need to change and get comfortable with something I'm not. I just need people around me who understand me.


----------



## Edmund

GusPolinski said:


> Here's the thing, folks: either you believe she was raped or you don't. Personally I don't see the value in doubting it, especially since her behavior sort of aligns with what you might expect to see in someone that had previously been raped, not to mention gangraped.
> 
> * Once she realized that OP was leaving, she found herself in a difficult decision in which she was forced -- in her mind -- to choose between a) inconveniencing 10 of his longtime friends that had each driven several hours to get there by asking them to leave or b) attempting to overcome her crippling social anxiety in order to accommodate them. She obviously chose B, and probably because her husband encouraged it. Still, there's that anxiety to deal with: enter alcohol.
> 
> * Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.
> 
> * After a night of drinking and eroding boundaries, she succumbed, and temptation probably wasn't the key factor -- she needed to keep her protector engaged, and sex was what he wanted.
> 
> And, given your group's past encouragement of infidelity, not to mention what has historically been a mutual decision to conceal it, what the **** did you really expect to happen?
> 
> Add in the fact that many victims of sexual assault turn to infidelity or promiscuity in an effort to reclaim their consent, and this was a recipe for what happened to happen.
> 
> Victims of sexual assault don't process social situations the same way that other people do. It sucks that you didn't realize this, OP, but there it is.


I usually don't agree with you Gus but I think you nailed this one exactly right. Still, there is so much vitriol in j8dr posts, I think there must be more to this than just what has been posted here. Based on what's here, I'd have forgiven her and comforted her. Maybe not so much for "Dan", who appears to be to blame for this situation. Who knows if these stories on here are true or just someone's creative writing project? They do pose some thought provoking questions on how different people can feel so differently given the same set of circumstances.


----------



## ltsandwich

GusPolinski said:


> Hopefully you've learned at least this...
> 
> First, not all who cheat are the same. Many are close enough to what most tend to view as the archetype that the details don't matter, but there ARE outliers. (And I believe this to be one of them.)
> 
> Second, not all affairs are the same.
> 
> Now work on this...
> 
> The trauma of sexual assault fundamentally changes people, and almost never for the better.
> 
> If what OP has related to us thus far is to be believed, his wife hasn't been changed so much that she doesn't feel remorse for her actions. In spite of what she's done, that is a good thing.
> 
> I get that he may decide to divorce, and that's understandable. Still, there's no need for the constant demonization.
> 
> IMO the thing he should be questioning at this moment is the condom/no condom thing, and if it turns out that she _is_ pregnant with OMs kid, I'd press him to divorce.
> 
> But as amicably as possible.


I wasn't demonizing her. I was pointing out the OTHER signs (That he even noticed) prior to the event itself. Also it felt like many people were slamming him for leaving her when he gave her a choice. He's obviously not an alpha that's going to send everyone home and override his wife's decision to stay...that's just who he is. Also all the friends were taken and here we're getting comments about 9 horny men in a cabin with her, like in his head he's seeing it as such since he's known them 17 years, including their spouses/girlfriends.

I get what rape does because my sister was a rape victim when she was in junior high and lived through the family therapy for it for 2 years after she ran away because of my abusive mother and stayed with a stranger overnight(The bastard took advantage of her). I know the behaviors (In her case, extreme anger) and I know all about anxiety first hand. 

I get what you're saying, though. Maybe it is coming off like I'm pushing for their divorce or looking forward to it. I'm not. But her reluctance to being 100 percent honest when OP has said that their stories are not completely accurate/have bonus details from both sides is not going to help and keeps me from saying it's worth working via therapy. Also the fact she's cozying up with him after with a long history of her saying he's the friend she's most comfortable with seems to open up the possibility this isn't their first rodeo. Also the whole "It hurts" during sex thing didn't seem to matter at the cabin.

I feel for her if she's a victim. That doesn't mean she's magically now a great person or it's not possible she was a serial cheater or even CHOSE to stay JUST to sleep with the friend or be near him. He possibly was preying on her low self-esteem for years. Numbing her to the guilt through small interactions to not set off her defense mechanisms. Dan definitely is a bad seed for playing it off like it was no big deal and probably smooth talked his girlfriend/wife about the situation. Then tries to play the nice guy by saying "Hey man, get back with her. It's no biggie."

If that's the case, she needs to be HONEST. She's dooming this relationship if she keeps hiding things, including her feelings towards Dan and any possible encounters with him before, even if it's just kissing, holding hands, and over all emotionally cheating.

I base my input on my own experiences and that's the best I can do. I read what I can and trying to digest all factors when making my comments. I will never come in here and just start bashing the "Cheater" and can only offer why I think they are not a good choice to stay with or worth reconciling with. Read my other posts and you will see I've offered advice that doesn't shut out the love of their life. Only that they should never feel guilty if they leave if that's just what their heart says is the final say.


----------



## Edmund

scaredlion said:


> Being a bit older and with a hell of a lot more experience in life, here is my two cents worth. It is already established that your wife had sex with someone who was suppose to be your friend. She cheated on you. The question is would she have done so if alcohol had not been involved. I don't know of anyone that hasn't done stupid sh*t when drunk that they would not have done when sober. The man she had sex with is not your friend and anything he says is suspect. Your wife's story has changed some because she is in survival mode, the same place you would be and saying whatever it took, if you were in her shoes. I know very few people who would not try to protect themselves when faced with disaster. No one forced her to get drunk but everyone else was encouraging her to drink, just like you said you have done on occasions. By the description you have given of your wife, it is easy to ascertain that your wife is susceptible to the influence of strong people. Ask yourself if you think she would have gotten as drunk as she did if not for the influence of the people she was with or if you had been there. Now these so called friends of yours. First of all they are not your friends and second if they had been then one of them would have seen what was happening and stopped it from going to where it went. From my perspective what your wife did has to fall on her shoulders but you opened the door for it to happen. Kind of like she fired the gun but you put the bullet in the chamber and cocked the hammer. She just pulled the trigger. You knew how she felt about being around people, especially men. You knew her anxieties and fears. You knew of her lack of confidence in herself. You knew she didn't like to be around a lot of people without you and you still left her with 9 men. I was career military for a good part of my life. I was Special Forces and I know what it is to be called out at all times of the day or night. I am married to a very strong woman and even I would have never consider leaving my wife with 9 men even if they were very good friends. You said she had a choice to stay or go. I say she didn't and I would be willing to bet she was highly influenced to stay so that everyone wouldn't have to drive back home. Yes, what she did was very wrong but you leaving her in that situation was wrong also. I don't know what your job is but I bet it wasn't as important as your marriage. I believe in second chances. I don't believe in third chances. If I were you I would really consider a second chance. Too often we get stuck on the infidelity and totally forget what acts or decisions may have lead up to it. So now everyone can chew me up for my opinion but be advised I have been chewed out by the best and all you will bite on is scar tissue. I do wish you well.


Dead accurate, this.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I don't think she insisted on staying and he'd have to override her request and say no in some big, alpha move. 

She said she didn't want to. She was uncomfortable but ultimately stayed because her only other option was to send them all home.

She shouldn't have been put in that choice to begin with. It's a crappy situation either way.


----------



## TDSC60

Have you asked her if sex with Dan was painful?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Edmund said:


> I usually don't agree with you Gus but I think you nailed this one exactly right. Still, there is so much vitriol in j8dr posts, I think there must be more to this than just what has been posted here. Based on what's here, I'd have forgiven her and comforted her. Maybe not so much for "Dan", who appears to be to blame for this situation. Who knows if these stories on here are true or just someone's creative writing project? They do pose some thought provoking questions on how different people can feel so differently given the same set of circumstances.


Indeed. 
I have read this entire thread and found it fascinating. I would love to be able to offer OP some high quality advice, but I certainly can't add anything to what's been said and I'm even more amazed at the range of disagreement here. 

What I can say without hesitation or reservation is that, whether reconciling, divorcing, or just pressing on with life without resolution, the one thing that must happen, is to completely divest from this group of so-called friends. This is 100% non negotiable if OP is to be a solid adult human being. Period. 

While I tend to be pretty black and white about all things infidelity, I can see some of the mitigators here. One thing I do know is that, regardless of any circumstances leading up to, or difficulties at the time of the decision, if I was to leave my wife in that situation, she'd be pissed, big time. And understandably so. I can't even imagine what being left in that situation would do to a woman who had actually been gang raped. It is beyond my ability to comprehend or even fully empathize.


----------



## ltsandwich

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think she insisted on staying and he'd have to override her request and say no in some big, alpha move.
> 
> She said she didn't want to. She was uncomfortable but ultimately stayed because her only other option was to send them all home.
> 
> She shouldn't have been put in that choice to begin with. It's a crappy situation either way.



I still think ultimate move should have been leave everyone there and both left. They could have just called if they needed anything.

I think it did open up a can of worms that needed to be opened, though. If they did do anything before the situation, it will see the light. Obviously she really didn't feel something for the scumbag Dan. Probably been playing on her low self-esteem for awhile. His reaction to being caught really bring it to light he's for sure an manipulator and probably is what led to her wanting to stay.

That may actually be why I felt she was a manipulator...her behaviors might be related to him, including being silent about it for so long. Friend couldn't take it anymore and mentioned it, then Dan had to act. She then got flustered and spilled the rest so she wasn't painted completely as the badgirl.

That Dan has to go, no matter what.


----------



## Noble1

GusPolinski said:


> Normally I'd advise a course of action very similar to what you've described above, but due primarily to concerns that I've already raised, I'm going to advise that you backpedal on all of ^this^, lest you continue to inflict damage that you cannot undo.
> 
> Start by calming the **** down and inviting your wife to come home.



When Gus says this, you know that he sees something that is worth taking the actions for.


Good luck.


----------



## NobodySpecial

jdr8 said:


> *My wife is not a drinker.* Prior to this she had never been drunk. The farthest she'd go would be a 1-2 drinks once every couple years. In the last 10 years she has probably consumed alcohol 5 times. *When my friends and I get together I've encouraged her to drink*, but it wasn't her thing. She said it was stupid to drink, to each their own. My wife was raised in a home without any alcohol ever, due to alcoholic family members.
> 
> I never worried about my wife cheating. Literally never. My wife is very quiet and reserved. She doesn't like being around other people. Even though we've been together for 7 years my friends feel like they barely know her. They have barely had conversations with her. She was* allegedly* raped about 10 years ago by a group of men and that makes her very reserved. She isnt even comfortable hugging my friends or having them touch her (hand on her arm, around her, etc.). She takes an anti-anxiety medication. She rarely goes out (just work, gym and shopping), doesn't talk to many people, doesn't hide her phone or computer, etc. There was not a single worry about her cheating.


wtf? You don't believe your own WIFE?



> 3 weeks ago we were planning a weekend get-together/party at our cottage. 10 friends came up (*9 men and ones wife*) but I ended up being called into work. My wife and friends stayed, which was fine my wife had to stay because it's our cottage and the friends wanted to stay. They had all just driven 3-4 hours to get there. *My wife expressed concern and anxiety* about being there alone with 9 men, but tries to step out of her comfort zone and stayed. It was completely her choice to stay, *I wasn't going to be there so it didn't effect me* either way. My friends are great and I had no concerns, everyone who was there I have been close with for nearly two decades.
> 
> 4 days ago my wife told me that she slept with a very close friend of mine - of 17 years. Her story, with some collaboration from friends, is:
> 
> On Friday she didn't drink at all. On Saturday she started drinking around 8PM, and everyone played card games, board games and drinking games. She drank a lot more than she is use to (8+ drinks), *because my friends were encouraging her to drink* and if she wasn't a bit tipsy she would be annoyed by their drunk behaviour.



I'm sorry. Well, not a lot. She did not wrap herself in glory. But what the hell do you realistically expect basically pressuring your wife into a drinky lifestyle when she has neither interest nor experience. I am a drinker and 8 drinks would land me on my ass. 

The cheating is not the biggest of your problems. You bet your sweet a$$ cheeks that if I expressed concern and anxiety, my husband's attitude would not be... it doesn't effect me anyway.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

NobodySpecial said:


> wtf? You don't believe your own WIFE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry. Well, not a lot. She did not wrap herself in glory. But what the hell do you realistically expect basically pressuring your wife into a drinky lifestyle when she has neither interest nor experienced. I am a drinker and 8 drinkers would land me on my ass.
> 
> The cheating is not the biggest of your problems. You bet your sweet a$$ cheeks that if I expressed concern and anxiety, my husband's attitude would not be... it doesn't effect me anyway.


Yep, "I feel uncomfortable" is code word for my bf to get me the hell out of that situation. I can't imagine him not doing that.


----------



## Talker67

some thoughts on this:
she is on anti anziety meds....some of those LOWER a person's moral response to cheating
She never drinks, and somehow got totally drunk....and had little experience with this before--would not know how to handle things
She was raped in the past, and still harbors issues from this, but probably never got professional counseling to exorcise those demons
She DID freely confess this all to you

So what would I do?
Polygraph to see if in fact this WAS the one and only time
Get her some individual counseling to figure out what is going on inside her mind
See if she wants to reconcile...and is willing to do the heavy lifting to fix this and reconcile....it might not be all over. But you can not tell yet.
If you DO chose to divorce her...please handle it with some compassion...she might be suicidal over all this


----------



## Talker67

BTW, your "friend" really is not one, but instead is a predator


----------



## Evinrude58

Talker67 said:


> BTW, your "friend" really is not one, but instead is a predator


I don't understand why you say predator. HE certainly is no friend. But predator?

She was playing sexual drinking games, taking her clothes off, and "cuddling" on the couch with him. He may be an opportunist, may be an affair partner, MAY be a "predator" as you say.... But she may have been just as eager to get him in bed/couch as was he. He had a gf....... There's nothing in the story that says predator to me. Did he pressure her to drink any more than the other "gents"?????

A polygraph may be interesting for sure. If it WAS just a total one night thing, I think it's doable to reconcile if she was 100% remorseful. If this is her affair partner for a long time, no. Who cares a lot about what the "friends" think. They could think whatever they wanted as long as they stayed the heck away from me. What they did said as much about them as it does about OP.
I personally think it's more likely "Dan" was an affair partner and she needs divorcing. I don't think a woman who keeps her shirt off in front of a crowd of men all evening, even after the "tourney" was over, is all that shy and timid. Whether she was drunk or not, she apparently enjoyed showing off her boobies to all involved. Especially telling was that the other woman kept her clothes on, as did most of the other men. Talk about uncomfortable from my perspective. Weird story all around.


----------



## TBT

Did you talk to your wife on the Saturday night to see how she was handling things?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

What are people seeing that says Dan is a long term affair? I don't see it at all. 

She did not want to stay there. She told her husband. She was pressured to. She stayed in her room the entire first night. 

And he can't R with his anger. He thinks she's a ****. That she cares more about getting off than her own children. He's not someone that can R. It would not be fair for either of them. 
He even questions her rape and doesn't seem to give a crap about her at all at this point.


----------



## Andy1001

GusPolinski said:


> Normally I'd advise a course of action very similar to what you've described above, but due primarily to concerns that I've already raised, I'm going to advise that you backpedal on all of ^this^, lest you continue to inflict damage that you cannot undo.
> 
> Start by calming the **** down and inviting your wife to come home.


When someone asks me how I want my coffee I say black as Gus Polinskis heart.
Who are you and what have you done with Gus!


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Andy1001 said:


> When someone asks me how I want my coffee I say black as Gus Polinskis heart.
> Who are you and what have you done with Gus!


I thought someone stole his avatar. I had to go back to check the actual name.


----------



## GusPolinski

Andy1001 said:


> When someone asks me how I want my coffee I say black as Gus Polinskis heart.
> Who are you and what have you done with Gus!





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I thought someone stole his avatar. I had to go back to check the actual name.


When I say things like...

"Dump her -- immediately and permanently."
"File for divorce ASAP."
"Tell her to pack her crap and move in with OM."

...that's _all_ I'm saying. What I'm _not_ saying is...

"Harass her at every turn. Give her no rest. Remind her every day -- and in every way -- that she is a worthless, irredeemable slore, and that her transgressions will damn her to the depths of Hell for all eternity."

...and yet somehow people read that into my posts.

Anything can be forgiven, but forgiving someone shouldn't always mean continuing to give them chances to wound or otherwise wrong you.

So just move on; preferably, as amicably as possible.

Forgive if you like, but detach, divorce, continue detaching, and move on.

Also, I'm probably the biggest teddy bear you'll ever meet.

But a teddy bear is still a bear.


----------



## MAJDEATH

What stands out for me from the facts of this incident at the cabin - the W casually hanging around the others (mostly male) shirtless in just a bra. I can't think of anyone or anytime in my adult life where someone's W took off her shirt in a group of people and stayed that way for sometime. 

It makes no sense, and to me it is an indication that something happened between her and Dan before, so now she is comfortable being around him in just a bra. I asked my W and she indicated that either Dan is certifiably gay, or he has already seen her naked boobs so it doesn't matter to her if he sees her in a bra.

Maybe some of the ladies of TAM can chime in here and give us their perspective on this issue.


----------



## doconiram

GusPolinski said:


> When I say things like...
> 
> "Dump her -- immediately and permanently."
> "File for divorce ASAP."
> "Tell her to pack her crap and move in with OM."
> 
> ...that's _all_ I'm saying. What I'm _not_ saying is...
> 
> "Harass her at every turn. Give her no rest. Remind her every day -- and in every way -- that she is a worthless, irredeemable slore, and that her transgressions will damn her to the depths of Hell for all eternity."
> 
> ...and yet somehow people read that into my posts.
> 
> Anything can be forgiven, but forgiving someone shouldn't always mean continuing to give them chances to wound or otherwise wrong you.
> 
> So just move on; preferably, as amicably as possible.
> 
> Forgive if you like, but detach, divorce, continue detaching, and move on.
> 
> Also, I'm probably the biggest teddy bear you'll ever meet.
> 
> But a teddy bear is still a bear.


I agree with the quote.

From my perspective, it is better to forgive and divorce, than reconcile and harbor everlasting resentment.

Forgiveness does not equal reconciliation.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MAJDEATH said:


> What stands out for me from the facts of this incident at the cabin - the W casually hanging around the others (mostly male) shirtless in just a bra. I can't think of anyone or anytime in my adult life where someone's W took of her shirt in a group of people and stayed that way for sometime.
> 
> It makes no sense, and to me it is an indication that something happened between her and Dan before, so now she is comfortable being around him in just a bra. I asked my W and she indicated that either Dan is certifiably gay, or he has already seen her naked boobs so it doesn't matter to her if he sees her in a bra.
> 
> Maybe some of the ladies of TAM can chime in here and give us their perspective on this issue.


Drunk, strip games. If sober wife just walked around in her bra I would think it was weird. Drunk? That is one of those stupid things people do when they are drunk that they wouldn't normally do sober. I don't think drinking itself makes someone cheat FTR but it does put you in stupid situations doing stupid stuff. It's why I avoid it. I have seen many drunk people's stuff because they were being stupid and taking bits of their clothes off or whipping one thing or another out. People who wouldn't have done it sober.


----------



## VladDracul

I'm sticking with my plain and simple (but extraordinarily workable) plan when contemplating reconciliation. Get a divorce first. Date second. Do a probationary live together third. Remarry fourth. The steps work whether you're reconciling or moving on to another and, if your are reconciling, it resets the clock thus eliminating any legitimacy to the claims, "I'm still not getting the whole story" or, "I wonder if I took them back without enough consequences".


----------



## Yeswecan

MAJDEATH said:


> What stands out for me from the facts of this incident at the cabin - the W casually hanging around the others (mostly male) shirtless in just a bra. I can't think of anyone or anytime in my adult life where someone's W took off her shirt in a group of people and stayed that way for sometime.
> 
> It makes no sense, and to me it is an indication that something happened between her and Dan before, so now she is comfortable being around him in just a bra. I asked my W and she indicated that either Dan is certifiably gay, or he has already seen her naked boobs so it doesn't matter to her if he sees her in a bra.
> 
> Maybe some of the ladies of TAM can chime in here and give us their perspective on this issue.


There has been some instances of my female friends removing their bras while still having their shirts on. You know, just wanting to get out of the confines of a bra. Shirt still on. Relax. But these were friends and totally innocent. They were comfortable around me.


----------



## Yeswecan

VladDracul said:


> I'm sticking with my plain and simple (but extraordinarily workable) plan when contemplating reconciliation. Get a divorce first. Date second. Do a probationary live together third. Remarry fourth. The steps work whether you're reconciling or moving on to another and, if your are reconciling, it resets the clock thus eliminating any legitimacy to the claims, "I'm still not getting the whole story" or, "I wonder if I took them back without enough consequences".


I would like to add...stay off the alcohol for both of you.


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> I'm sticking with my plain and simple (but extraordinarily workable) plan when contemplating reconciliation. Get a divorce first. Date second. Do a probationary live together third. Remarry fourth. The steps work whether you're reconciling or moving on to another and, if your are reconciling, it resets the clock thus *eliminating any legitimacy to the claims, "I'm still not getting the whole story"* or, "I wonder if I took them back without enough consequences".


Not quite.


----------



## VladDracul

I say that Gus because if you have concerns about the "whole story" before step 4 (remarry), and move forward anyway, you've knowingly and willfully accepted the terms of your new marriage. Hence, its your fault you didn't pull the plug before taking that step. You ain't gonna get much sympathy claiming "buyer's remorse".


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I don't think SHE should agree to R. Not when he's calling her names and questioning if she was raped before and saying she cares more about getting off than her children. I don't think she deserves that hatred from him and I don't think she should R with him because of it. 

It was a crappy situation for everyone that never should have happened in the first place. She cheated, she's not a monster or a **** or a bad Mother. Hate has no place in a marriage. No matter what someone has done, if you have that kind of hate you have to move on.


----------



## LosingHim

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think SHE should agree to R. Not when he's calling her names and questioning if she was raped before and saying she cares more about getting off than her children. I don't think she deserves that hatred from him and I don't think she should R with him because of it.
> 
> It was a crappy situation for everyone that never should have happened in the first place. She cheated, she's not a monster or a **** or a bad Mother. Hate has no place in a marriage. No matter what someone has done, if you have that kind of hate you have to move on.


I agree. The anger is real and I get it. The things I said to my husband when I kicked him out were 12 years of pent up resentment and anger about the affair and boy did I let him have it! Over a course of 8 hours while I packed his things and cried and cried. And I said some things I didn't mean and my heart completely shattered. And I vomited and smoked a pack of cigarettes in about 4 hours and I did all sorts of things I've never done. But once the anger was gone, I just got incredibly hurt and sad. He's still a human being. He's still the father of my child. I still loved him. He was just a man who did a really f*cked up, horribly hurtful thing. Even cheaters have good qualities even if they're delusional c*nts while they're cheating. I do believe while involved in the affair they're scum. But I don't believe they're ALWAYS scum. And as someone else mentioned, there ARE different kinds of cheaters and I also believe different levels of cheating as well. 

If he chose to reconcile with her at any point in the immediate or near future, he'd make her life hell. I'm not saying op doesn't have the right to be angry, but he'd need to get a grip on his anger before even thinking about thinking about R.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

You folks seem to have tried to shift the blame on to the OP. That's BULL****. There is no excuse for screwing your husband's friend .... period. NONE. That being said most of you seem to not be taking into account or even considering whether this was an absolute deal breaker for JDR8, and that is what will determine his path forward, the rest is just semantics. IMHO, I think Vlads 4 step program is the way to go. Divorce and let her earn him back.Although for me I doubt I could deal with the eternal mind movies and lack of trust,not to mention never trusting her around any of my friends ever again, so it would probably just make it through the first step.


----------



## ButtPunch

Rubix Cubed said:


> You folks seem to have tried to shift the blame on to the OP. That's BULL****. There is no excuse for screwing your husband's friend .... period. NONE. That being said most of you seem to not be taking into account or even considering whether this was an absolute deal breaker for JDR8, and that is what will determine his path forward, the rest is just semantics. IMHO, I think Vlads 4 step program is the way to go. Divorce and let her earn him back.Although for me I doubt I could deal with the eternal mind movies and lack of trust,not to mention never trusting her around any of my friends ever again, so it would probably just make it through the first step.


With his friend.....the lowest of the low.

No way he comes back for some more of that


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

There are 2 seperate wrongs. He is responsible for his and she is responsible for hers. 2 wrongs don't make a right on either side. 

I don't think they should R.


----------



## Roselyn

MAJDEATH said:


> What stands out for me from the facts of this incident at the cabin - the W casually hanging around the others (mostly male) shirtless in just a bra. I can't think of anyone or anytime in my adult life where someone's W took off her shirt in a group of people and stayed that way for sometime.
> 
> It makes no sense, and to me it is an indication that something happened between her and Dan before, so now she is comfortable being around him in just a bra. I asked my W and she indicated that either Dan is certifiably gay, or he has already seen her naked boobs so it doesn't matter to her if he sees her in a bra.
> 
> Maybe some of the ladies of TAM can chime in here and give us their perspective on this issue.


Woman here. Yes, she's comfortable around the men in a bra; or an exhibitionist. She wanted attention from the men or specifically, Dan. OP believes that his wife is shy and reserved. This scene does not bode on how he perceives her. I watched the movie "Unfaithful" the other night. The wayward wife acted so saintly around the husband, but a total "s-t" w/ the other man. OP needs to see a marriage counselor to begin to unravel this situation. He may need to see a psychologist for individual counseling to set his mind in the right direction. Whether he stays or goes, he needs to see his wife as she is.


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> I say that Gus because if you have concerns about the "whole story" before step 4 (remarry), and move forward anyway, you've knowingly and willfully accepted the terms of your new marriage. Hence, its your fault you didn't pull the plug before taking that step. You ain't gonna get much sympathy claiming "buyer's remorse".


Fair point, but let's say he agrees to remarry based on lies that he's accepted as truths.

Down the road he discovers the truth.

That can't really be put on him.


----------



## *Deidre*

Roselyn said:


> Woman here. Yes, she's comfortable around the men in a bra; or an exhibitionist. She wanted attention from the men or specifically, Dan. OP believes that his wife is shy and reserved. This scene does not bode on how he perceives her. I watched the movie "Unfaithful" the other night. The wayward wife acted so saintly around the husband, but a total "s-t" w/ the other man. OP needs to see a marriage counselor to begin to unravel this situation. He may need to see a psychologist for individual counseling to set his mind in the right direction. Whether he stays or goes, he needs to see his wife as she is.


I've seen that movie, that's a good analogy.


----------



## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> Fair point, but let's say he agrees to remarry based on lies that he's accepted as truths.
> 
> Down the road he discovers the truth.
> 
> That can't really be put on him.


In that case, he just got snookered. It can happen to any of us. Hopefully he'd check out things a little better since he knows, or should know, he's dealing with someone who already knifed him in the back. And its like they say, the subsequent divorce is always easier than the first.


----------



## arobk

GusPolinski said:


> Actually, there was a third option that no one seemed to consider --
> 
> OP and his wife _both_ leave, and he leaves the keys with his friends.
> 
> Easy peasy.


 That is what I have been thinking this whole time. How much did OP trust them if this was not an option?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Rubix Cubed said:


> You folks seem to have tried to shift the blame on to the OP.


My response was not terribly sympathetic to the OP. But it has nothing to do with blame. I wonder why people care so much about blame?



> That's BULL****. There is no excuse for screwing your husband's friend .... period. NONE. That being said most of you seem to not be taking into account or even considering whether this was an absolute deal breaker for JDR8, and that is what will determine his path forward, the rest is just semantics.


Whether it is a deal breaker or not, he should do what he needs to do in that regard. But I totally disagree that the rest are just semantics. For this relationship or the next, the OP could really stand to look at some of the extenuating conditions of this event. Just saying.


----------



## Talker67

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't understand why you say predator. HE certainly is no friend. But predator?
> 
> She was playing sexual drinking games, taking her clothes off, and "cuddling" on the couch with him. He may be an opportunist, may be an affair partner, MAY be a "predator" as you say.... But she may have been just as eager to get him in bed/couch as was he. He had a gf....... There's nothing in the story that says predator to me. Did he pressure her to drink any more than the other "gents"?????.


If it were ME...i would be drinking with her...trying to get her to enjoy herself. But then i would have picked her up, plopped her on the couch, covered her with a blanket, and gone off to sleep on the floor. 

Sliding in next to her, and starting to play with her drunk body....as i get horny being next to her...and hoping we have sex....yes that is predatory.


----------



## Talker67

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Drunk, strip games. If sober wife just walked around in her bra I would think it was weird. Drunk? That is one of those stupid things people do when they are drunk that they wouldn't normally do sober. I don't think drinking itself makes someone cheat FTR but it does put you in stupid situations doing stupid stuff. It's why I avoid it. I have seen many drunk people's stuff because they were being stupid and taking bits of their clothes off or whipping one thing or another out. People who wouldn't have done it sober.


To allow oneself to get that drunk, and do such things, DOES underlie some deep psychological problems. It could be she has serious issues, and keeps them in-check...until a few drinks and it all comes bubbling out in a gushing torrent. Hence my previous thought that she needs some individual counseling...to see WHY this event even happened.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Talker67 said:


> To allow oneself to get that drunk, and do such things, DOES underlie some deep psychological problems. It could be she has serious issues, and keeps them in-check...until a few drinks and it all comes bubbling out in a gushing torrent. Hence my previous thought that she needs some individual counseling...to see WHY this event even happened.


She does see someone, to get her anxiety meds. She understands her serious issues, her past rape, her anxiety and discomfort around groups of men. Her husband didn't, even when she expressed her discomfort to him she was pressured to stay. 

Like I said about me, I don't need to change to become comfortable around people. I need the people close to me to understand me. They do. 

Even if this was just a girlfriend of hers who left her there or at a bar alone after she expressed discomfort I would think it was wrong. Him being her husband had more of a responsibility to stand up for her and protect her.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Roselyn said:


> Woman here. Yes, she's comfortable around the men in a bra; or an exhibitionist. She wanted attention from the men or specifically, Dan. OP believes that his wife is shy and reserved. This scene does not bode on how he perceives her. I watched the movie "Unfaithful" the other night. The wayward wife acted so saintly around the husband, but a total "s-t" w/ the other man.


Bingo, OP is still under the delusion that his wife is "a nice girl". He needs to wake up.

Many women certainly are.... SHE is not. Nice girls don't **** their husband's friends.

Party girls get trashy with the guys and sleep with them. Met so MANY in college just like her.

Some people never change. They just play the role until the alcohol shows their true colors. 

Alcohol DOES NOT make you do anything you don't WANT to do. It simply lowers your inhibitions.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Being drunk can hinder you from saying no to things you don't want to do. 

It's really not as simple as "she must have wanted to" 

Ask anyone who has slept with someone they wouldn't have if they had not been drunk. It's not cause they really wanted to deep down. 

It can amply traits. Including inability to say no, people pleasing, desire to fit in and be cool, and whatnot. 

Women in general should not be left alone in a drinking situation with 9 drunk men, even worse those who have clearly shown their crappy behaviour before. 

His wife, knowing she has those traits, and those friends was just a recipe for disaster. 

I'd have a hard time dealing with my husband not immediately finding another solution when he got called into work other than me staying. If it even got to the point of pressure after I said I was uncomfortable I'm not sure I could stay with him. 
He's my one safe person above all else. He wouldn't be that anymore and I'd lose my respect for him.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think it’s a bad situation all around, but cheating is never ‘’inevitable.’’ It’s a choice. I’m curious to hear from the OP to see if this was the dynamic in their relationship…that he was more of a care taker, than an equal partner. My husband is definitely a protective type of me, but he also trusts me. I’m just curious to hear from the OP as to their basic dynamic in the marriage. It’s also possible that people show different sides to different people. There’s also two sides to every story, so when I read things on here, I base my replies on the person asking for advice, but knowing that there’s another side I’m not reading.

I don’t really think that alcohol is a valid excuse. It can be a reason for doing stupid things, but not an excuse. This is why there are DUI laws, because being drunk isn’t an excuse for being reckless.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Being drunk can hinder you from saying no to things you don't want to do.


That's total bologna. You could never hold any drunk accountable legally.

"I really didn't want to murder those five people, the alcohol made me do it."

It's the same reason people who plead insanity and win don't go to prison.

They are not responsible for their actions. Drunks ARE responsible for their actions.

Why? Because it doesn't control your mind. It lowers your inhibitions, nothing more.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's really not as simple as "she must have wanted to"


Maybe SHE DID want to. Why is this so difficult for you to accept?


----------



## *Deidre*

So if the OP's wife drove that night after having 8 drinks...and killed someone, would some of you be like...well, she was drunk, and the OP shouldn't have left her alone? 

The OP wouldn't be going to jail, his wife would be.


----------



## David51

Must have been awfully drunk, I sometimes wonder if people don't use intoxication to pften as an excuse for bad behavior.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I didn't say she wasn't responsible. In fact I've said many times that she is. But it's a stupid, bad situation to be in that should have been avoided. You don't just leave your wife with 9 drunk men when she has said she's uncomfortable. 

He is responsible for his actions as she is hers. 
Her wrong doesn't cancel out his wrong and his doesn't cancel out hers. 
They both did wrong things. 

You don't have to be a caretaker to understand you don't leave an uncomfortable woman in a bad situation with alcohol involved. My friends are my equals and they would never do that, no matter how much they trusted me. It's just plain stupid.


----------



## MyRevelation

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Being drunk can hinder you from saying no to things you don't want to do.
> 
> It's really not as simple as "she must have wanted to"
> 
> Ask anyone who has slept with someone they wouldn't have if they had not been drunk. It's not cause they really wanted to deep down.
> 
> It can amply traits. Including inability to say no, people pleasing, desire to fit in and be cool, and whatnot.
> 
> Women in general should not be left alone in a drinking situation with 9 drunk men, even worse those who have clearly shown their crappy behaviour before.
> 
> His wife, knowing she has those traits, and those friends was just a recipe for disaster.
> 
> I'd have a hard time dealing with my husband not immediately finding another solution when he got called into work other than me staying. If it even got to the point of pressure after I said I was uncomfortable I'm not sure I could stay with him.
> He's my one safe person above all else. He wouldn't be that anymore and I'd lose my respect for him.


Jesus, give it a rest. We understand you are extremely biased in your assessment of this situation. No matter how you want to spin this, the OP isn't the one who got drunk and screwed his friend in front of all his other friends. That's on the WW. You've said your piece over and over ... people aren't going to buy what you're selling if you say it another 50 times. OP and the rest of us heard it the first time.

We get it, you don't like the OP and want to give his WW a free pass, because she M'd a loser. You know what, I actually agree with you somewhat ... this whole mess is a cluster, including everyone involved. Personally, in situations like this, I hope they stay together so they don't go out and screw up two other peoples lives. They all deserve each other.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He is responsible for his actions as she is hers.
> Her wrong doesn't cancel out his wrong and his doesn't cancel out hers.
> They both did wrong things.


And you continue to compare jay walking to first degree murder.

In any event, we both agree on one thing. OP needs to divorce her.


----------



## RWB

I'm betting... "Not her 1st Rodeo".


----------



## BetrayedDad

RWB said:


> I'm betting... "Not her 1st Rodeo".


You're way late to the party bro..... 



Mario Kempes said:


> I doubt if this was their first rodeo.





Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Most likely this was not the first rodeo for her with Dan.





Evinrude58 said:


> this wasn't their first rodeo





BetrayedDad said:


> This wasn't her first rodeo.





ltsandwich said:


> seems to open up the possibility this isn't their first rodeo.


----------



## *Deidre*

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I didn't say she wasn't responsible. In fact I've said many times that she is. But it's a stupid, bad situation to be in that should have been avoided. You don't just leave your wife with 9 drunk men when she has said she's uncomfortable.
> 
> He is responsible for his actions as she is hers.
> Her wrong doesn't cancel out his wrong and his doesn't cancel out hers.
> They both did wrong things.
> 
> You don't have to be a caretaker to understand you don't leave an uncomfortable woman in a bad situation with alcohol involved. My friends are my equals and they would never do that, no matter how much they trusted me. It's just plain stupid.


In the story the OP presents, it seems like his wife wanted to sleep with ''Dan.'' So, while I agree with you on the situation, it's entirely possible that while she was drunk, she still wanted to be with ''Dan.''

And ''Dan'' was drunk too it sounds like. So, maybe he wouldn't have slept with her either, if he was sober. I don't consider either the OP's wife or ''Dan'' to be malicious, or that this was calculated. But, looks like an opportunity presented itself, and they both took it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Actually no, that's not what I've said but I don't expect you to actually read what I write. 
People are still saying she's just some secret party girl who planned and wanted this whole thing to happen. Who has gangbangs and claims rape just so her husband thinks she's innocent when she goes to sleep with his friends. Who must have been sleeping with the guy beforehand. Even though all those things are baseless and offensive and ignorant. 
People who can't see any fault in any BH actions and just demonize the WW. There's plenty of evil WW threads that people can jump on to call the women sl^ts and evil, rape pretending monsters
If you dont want to see them then scroll past or block me.


----------



## *Deidre*

RWB said:


> I'm betting... "Not her 1st Rodeo".


I'm curious, why do you think that?


----------



## *Deidre*

...


----------



## *Deidre*

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Actually no, that's not what I've said but I don't expect you to actually read what I write.
> People are still saying she's just some secret party girl who planned and wanted this whole thing to happen. Who has gangbangs and claims rape just so her husband thinks she's innocent when she goes to sleep with his friends. Who must have been sleeping with the guy beforehand. Even though all those things are baseless and offensive and ignorant.
> People who can't see any fault in any BH actions and just demonize the WW. There's plenty of evil WW threads that people can jump on to call the women sl^ts and evil, rape pretending monsters
> If you dont want to see them then scroll past or block me.


I never said this, are you replying to BetrayedDad?


----------



## BetrayedDad

*Deidre* said:


> I never said this, are you replying to BetrayedDad?


Some of that is me, I'm sure. 

She accuses others of gender bias while she continues to defend a horrible cheater who ****ed her husband's friend, in front of his other friends, for no other reason than her being a woman.

Meanwhile, OP is the devil for leaving, OM is a rapist, and all men can not be trusted, especially in large groups because it's "not safe". We got it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

*Deidre* said:


> In the story the OP presents, it seems like his wife wanted to sleep with ''Dan.'' So, while I agree with you on the situation, it's entirely possible that while she was drunk, she still wanted to be with ''Dan.''
> 
> And ''Dan'' was drunk too it sounds like. So, maybe he wouldn't have slept with her either, if he was sober. I don't consider either the OP's wife or ''Dan'' to be malicious, or that this was calculated. But, looks like an opportunity presented itself, and they both took it.


Being comfortable with doesn't mean wanted to sleep with. My ex's friend was the only one who made me feel comfortable. He tried to include me, talk to me. Sometimes I'd only talk to him the whole night. Doesn't mean I wanted him. The night he grabbed my butt was the same night I carried around the same drink all night pretending I was drinking with the rest of them. He thought I was drinking all night too. I wasn't. He took me alone to show me where me and ex were sleeping for the night and he grabbed my butt. He never tried anything the nights I said "no thanks, I'm not drinking tonight" 

Almost every introvert you meet will have a safe person they pick in a group. He was her safe person. It's usually not sexual

I felt safe with him. Enough to be alone. He made me feel comfortable and like he was my friend. 
None of that meant I was ok with what happened. If I was drunk I would have a hard time saying no. 

This is why I don't drink. I'm responsible for what happens if I drink so I prefer to just keep it out of the equation. 
I've learned over time to say no sober. I have no practice saying no drunk and I'm not about to start trying now. 

I think she should have never had a drink. I think she should have stayed in her room. I think she should have asked the other woman to be her buddy for the night. I could come up with a dozen other things she should have done and that's all on her. . 

I'm not going to assume Dan is a predator like that but I'm not going to assume that just because she felt comfortable with him that she wanted to sleep with him before that specific event or had feelings for him beforehand.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

No, there was a post that is no longer there. I forget from who. Must have been deleted.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> Some of that is me, I'm sure.
> 
> She accuses others of gender bias while she continues to defend a horrible cheater who ****ed her husband's friend, in front of his other friends, for no other reason than her being a woman.
> 
> Meanwhile, OP is the devil for leaving, OM is a rapist, and all men can not be trusted, especially in large groups because it's "not safe". We got it.


Once again because you don't read

1- she is responsible for her actions there period
2- he is responsible for his actions period

I never said om is a rapist or that men in groups can't be trusted. I said it's stupid to leave a woman in a group of men when drinking is involved. It is. Her girlfriends shouldn't, her husband shouldn't. 

We are taught to look out for each other. You don't just leave your girlfriend at a bar with a group of guys she had said she feels uncomfortable with. 

You can't see anything wrong with what her husband did and think the WW is just a party girl sl*t. I get it too. 
I'm not defending her because she's a woman. I've spoken against many women and WWs before. But not all WW are the same, not all affairs are the same. 
If you can't see past her being a WW and see the whole situation then that's your choice of how you read into it. 

This situation should have never happened. Lots of people did wrong and stupid things including every single one of the "friends" there. Including the wife and the husband.


----------



## *Deidre*

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Being comfortable with doesn't mean wanted to sleep with. My ex's friend was the only one who made me feel comfortable. He tried to include me, talk to me. Sometimes I'd only talk to him the whole night. Doesn't mean I wanted him. The night he grabbed my butt was the same night I carried around the same drink all night pretending I was drinking with the rest of them. He thought I was drinking all night too. I wasn't. He took me alone to show me where me and ex were sleeping for the night and he grabbed my butt. He never tried anything the nights I said "no thanks, I'm not drinking tonight"
> 
> Almost every introvert you meet will have a safe person they pick in a group. He was her safe person. It's usually not sexual
> 
> I felt safe with him. Enough to be alone. He made me feel comfortable and like he was my friend.
> None of that meant I was ok with what happened. If I was drunk I would have a hard time saying no.
> 
> This is why I don't drink. I'm responsible for what happens if I drink so I prefer to just keep it out of the equation.
> I've learned over time to say no sober. I have no practice saying no drunk and I'm not about to start trying now.
> 
> I think she should have never had a drink. I think she should have stayed in her room. I think she should have asked the other woman to be her buddy for the night. I could come up with a dozen other things she should have done and that's all on her. .
> 
> I'm not going to assume Dan is a predator like that but I'm not going to assume that just because she felt comfortable with him that she wanted to sleep with him before that specific event or had feelings for him beforehand.


Explained like this, it makes more sense.


----------



## ButtPunch

She's running around with her shirt off at a party.

Quite the introvert.

She wanted to get laid.

C'mon people.


----------



## TAM2013

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think SHE should agree to R. Not when he's calling her names and questioning if she was raped before and saying she cares more about getting off than her children. I don't think she deserves that hatred from him and I don't think she should R with him because of it.


Are you serious? That evening she did care about getting off more than her children. Have you forgotten this woman betrayed the whole family in the most flagrant, disgusting and pointless manner possible? Without a single thought for the catastrophic effect it would have on them? Absolutely humiliated him. And he's a bad boy for shouting?

God help us.


----------



## BetrayedDad

ButtPunch said:


> She's running around with her shirt off at a party.
> 
> She wanted to get laid.
> 
> C'mon people.


Dude come on.... the alcohol made her do it.

After a few beers, my pants usually come flying off too.


----------



## MyRevelation

ButtPunch said:


> She's running around with her shirt off at a party.
> 
> Quite the introvert.
> 
> She wanted to get laid.
> 
> C'mon people.


Exactly, people need to think through how this cluster actually came to be. The shirt came off early in the evening ... long before "drunk". She had 8+ drinks ... she didn't go from zero to drunk in 10 minutes ... this went on for hours, most of which it appears with her shirtless and cuddled up to **** buddy IN FRONT OF ALL OP's SO CALLED FRIENDS. She simply isn't the innocent that OP thought she was ... unfortunately, many of us found out our spouses weren't who we thought they were ... it's part of the infidelity learning curve. She was with a group of deplorable people and she acted deplorably ... who'da thunk it?


----------



## TX-SC

As much as I hate to say it, I'm not sure that I could get over this. I don't think this was a drunken mistake. I believe she was leading into it all night. My wife wouldn't be caught dead taking her shirt off in front of a bunch of guys, and she certainly wouldn't be playing sexy drinking games with them.


----------



## Evinrude58

TX-SC said:


> As much as I hate to say it, I'm not sure that I could get over this. I don't think this was a drunken mistake. I believe she was leading into it all night. My wife wouldn't be caught dead taking her shirt off in front of a bunch of guys, and she certainly wouldn't be playing sexy drinking games with them.


Exactly. A woman that takes her clothes off in front of groups of men....... That's not a woman of character. She is who she is. 

HOWEVER. The woman in question is not using alcohol as an excuse, from what I've read (it's been several pages ago, though). 

I think it boils down to this: 
Is this the ONLY time that she's cheated?
If it IS the ONLY time she ever cheated, is she truly remorseful and still in love with her husband. I find it hard to believe a woman is in love with her husband and makes a mistake like this. 

If she takes full responsibility, is remorseful, and still loves her husband......... Then it's all up to OP if he can forgive and continue their relationship. It's a helluva lot to forgive. She truly shamed this man beyond anything. And betrayed him. And broke his heart.

All up to you OP. I don't have any advice anymore. I've gotten over the shock of hearing of her doing this. It's horrible, but if #2 above, possibly forgiveable. #1 I don't think is.
JMO


----------



## Chaparral

scaredlion said:


> Being a bit older and with a hell of a lot more experience in life, here is my two cents worth. It is already established that your wife had sex with someone who was suppose to be your friend. She cheated on you. The question is would she have done so if alcohol had not been involved. I don't know of anyone that hasn't done stupid sh*t when drunk that they would not have done when sober. The man she had sex with is not your friend and anything he says is suspect. Your wife's story has changed some because she is in survival mode, the same place you would be and saying whatever it took, if you were in her shoes. I know very few people who would not try to protect themselves when faced with disaster. No one forced her to get drunk but everyone else was encouraging her to drink, just like you said you have done on occasions. By the description you have given of your wife, it is easy to ascertain that your wife is susceptible to the influence of strong people. Ask yourself if you think she would have gotten as drunk as she did if not for the influence of the people she was with or if you had been there. Now these so called friends of yours. First of all they are not your friends and second if they had been then one of them would have seen what was happening and stopped it from going to where it went. From my perspective what your wife did has to fall on her shoulders but you opened the door for it to happen. Kind of like she fired the gun but you put the bullet in the chamber and cocked the hammer. She just pulled the trigger. You knew how she felt about being around people, especially men. You knew her anxieties and fears. You knew of her lack of confidence in herself. You knew she didn't like to be around a lot of people without you and you still left her with 9 men. I was career military for a good part of my life. I was Special Forces and I know what it is to be called out at all times of the day or night. I am married to a very strong woman and even I would have never consider leaving my wife with 9 men even if they were very good friends. You said she had a choice to stay or go. I say she didn't and I would be willing to bet she was highly influenced to stay so that everyone wouldn't have to drive back home. Yes, what she did was very wrong but you leaving her in that situation was wrong also. I don't know what your job is but I bet it wasn't as important as your marriage. I believe in second chances. I don't believe in third chances. If I were you I would really consider a second chance. Too often we get stuck on the infidelity and totally forget what acts or decisions may have lead up to it. So now everyone can chew me up for my opinion but be advised I have been chewed out by the best and all you will bite on is scar tissue. I do wish you well.


This needs repeated. 

Your wife is on a drug that reacts with alcohol. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME SHE EVER GOT DRUNK. 

Your number one job in life is to protect your family. You failed any way you look at it. 

Nine guys, two women, games with a sexual component. Great group of friends there. Makes me sick. 

What else makes me sick is the burn the witch mentality of many seasoned posters here.

I spent many years drinking and partying before marrying and settling down. People that get loaded for the first time are not responsible. They don't know what hit them.
Period

You need to talk to a professional that has experience with medicine and alcohol. 

The one thing some people got right is the poly to make double sure your buddy Dan was a one time thing. 

If she knew what she was doing she would have gotten up after the deed to keep every one else in the dark. I doubt she even knew what happened when she first woke up.

If you had no clue about Dan, you can't trust your judgement about your other friends or anyone else for that matter.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Talker67 said:


> To allow oneself to get that drunk, and do such things, DOES underlie some deep psychological problems. It could be she has serious issues, and keeps them in-check...until a few drinks and it all comes bubbling out in a gushing torrent. Hence my previous thought that she needs some individual counseling...to see WHY this event even happened.




I'm sorry but this is a load of crap. (Said lovingly.) She is not a drinker. She has no earthly idea what allowing herself to get that drunk looks like as all her husband's friends cajole her into drinking.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Chaparral said:


> This needs repeated.
> 
> Your wife is on a drug that reacts with alcohol. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME SHE EVER GOT DRUNK.
> 
> Your number one job in life is to protect your family. You failed any way you look at it.
> 
> Nine guys, two women, games with a sexual component. Great group of friends there. Makes me sick.
> 
> What else makes me sick is the burn the witch mentality of many seasoned posters here.
> 
> I spent many years drinking and partying before marrying and settling down. People that get loaded for the first time are not responsible. They don't know what hit them.
> Period
> 
> You need to talk to a professional that has experience with medicine and alcohol.
> 
> The one thing some people got right is the poly to make double sure your buddy Dan was a one time thing.
> 
> If she knew what she was doing she would have gotten up after the deed to keep every one else in the dark. I doubt she even knew what happened when she first woke up.
> 
> If you had no clue about Dan, you can't trust your judgement about your other friends or anyone else for that matter.


Yes, the point about meds + drinking is one that is important. Another reason I don't drink. Being off your meds for a day or two doesn't get them out of your system and there is still interactions between the two. 

And I agree that "_Your number one job in life is to protect your family._" That is how I feel as well.


----------



## LosingHim

Any of you read the story about the teen in Chicago that they found in a freezer dead last weekend? Guess what happened there? Her FRIENDS took her to a party at a hotel where she drank to excess, her drinks were laced, she was given drugs, raped and then walked into a freezer because the drugs in her system made her so hot that she went in the freezer out of her mind trying to cool down. That’s where she passed out and died. Extreme case, sure. But I’m sure it happens a lot more than people think, it’s just that not everyone dies from it. 

Point and comparison being that OP’s wife is known to be shy, reserved and not drink. Not to mention she’s on anti-anxiety medication. As in the example above, if all of that is true, her experience with copious amounts of alcohol is going to be about the same as a teen with little to no experience drinking. And for a non drinker 8 drinks is a copious amount. For a 100 pound woman 8 drinks is a copious amount. I drink and 8 drinks is a copious amount and a fine line between me stumbling and blacking out. I weigh 150 pounds and I’m 5’6. It’s been a while but 6 drinks has me pretty toasty. When we flew into Vegas last Thursday, after travel and lack of sleep, 2 bottles of beer at Hard Rock Café had me with a hell of a buzz. Has it been determined what anti anxiety med she is on? Welbutrin can cause seizures with alcohol. Xanax and Valium intensifies the buzz and can make you stop breathing. Almost ALL of them can make you more sensitive to the effects of alcohol. 

Before I get jumped on, I’m not defending her actions. They’re not excusable. Alcohol is not the blame but it sure as hell makes your more susceptible to doing stupid things. How many times have you heard the saying “Every good story starts with ‘here, hold my beer’”? The term “Beer goggles” heard men reference that they slept with an unattractive/overweight woman and had to ‘chew their arm off the next morning to get away’. One time in my early 20’s I drank too much, walked up to an ex boyfriend in front of my current boyfriend, cried and begged the ex boyfriend to give me my sweater back that I’d left at his house a year before. I had no recollection of doing that until my friends told me the next day and then it all came rushing back. I can’t give you one single reason I would have done that. I didn’t even LIKE the sweater that was at his house. Which explained why I’d never gone to get it in the previous YEAR. But for whatever reason, in my alcohol clouded brain, it was THE most important thing. Now that I’ve had some heartache my last 2 years of life, when I drink I suddenly become VERY emotional. I never used to. I was always the happy drinker. The fun one. It’s one of the reasons I limit how often I drink now. I don’t FEEL in control of my emotions anymore when I drink more than a drink or two. I have no intentions of becoming a blubbering, sad mess, but that’s exactly what I become. 

Point being, no, alcohol is not the reason she did what she did. However, excess alcohol CAN cause adverse reactions. Things out of character. It alters the way that you feel, the way that you react, how you think about things. Before my ultimate sadness started taking over when I drank, having a few beers USED to make me feel strong. When I’d have a couple of beers I had the courage to do what needed done in my marriage. I was able to detach and feel strong in my convictions. As soon as I would sober up, all of that would be gone. I’d remember what I’d felt, but I no longer felt capable of enacting it. I remember even saying here a time or two – LH after a few Miller Lites would get sh*t done. Sober LH was hesitant to contact my husbands AP. LH after a few beers did it without hesitation. 

Again, not excuses, but I am saying that alcohol alters your mind state. Many people do things they wouldn’t normally do sober. Whether out of fear or never having a desire until the alcohol whispers “hey, you know you want to do that”. 

I don’t think WW is a normal party girl wh*re who goes around screwing OP’s friend(s) for sh*ts and giggles and she and alllllll of his friends and all of his family have agreed and colluded to hide it from him for 10 years and all the sudden she showed her true colors. Even if you’ve never seen it first hand yourselves, people’s reputations precede them. I can tell you any number of people in my town who are drunks, wh*res, addicts, etc. all because people talk. She was a secret party girl and never once in 10 years did someone that knew she was a party girl whisper to OP “Hey dude, she’s WILD”. I was warned about my husband before I married him. That he was a liar and a cheater. Guess what he turned out to be? Of course I didn’t believe it, didn’t want to see it, but my point was, I WAS TOLD. His entire town hid the fact that he was married to a closet party girl? I don’t think so.


----------



## Evinrude58

This guy kicked his wife out, changed the locks, and is filing for divorce. All because she cheated the first time she ever got drunk in her life. That's a hard story to believe that the first time she got drunk, she had sex with the first guy that gave her attention. Geez, I never knew alcohol was THAT effective at removing britches.... 

Either way, the betrayed spouses on here need to take note. THIS guy's wife will want to reconcile with him and maybe even love him. She'll respect the guy and likely know darn well that another incident and she'll be sent packing for good.

Nicing her back, begging her not to have sex with the OM, pleading for another chance to "win her back because it's all my fault she cheated on me".................. I can tell you from experience that THAT **** DON'T WORK.

OP, you really need to do some thinking on this. You are a terrible judge of character and human nature. You left your wife alone with 9 guys and 2 ladies, knowing there would be drinking involved. You had even been "warned" by your wife that she was "comfortable" around this Dan character. No, you didn't know your wife would get involved with drinking and sex games and start removing clothing and spreading her legs to the first guy that showed interest. She did, though. Now you have to deal with it. 

Whatever you decide, I don't think anyone could really argue against. If she has never kissed or had sex with this buy before, you might consider the "first time drunk" thing and have a talk with your wife. See if she tries to blameshift or accepts full responsibility and begs for mercy while she tells you she knows she doesn't deserve it. Give her a polygraph and make sure she's honest about no shenanigans before. Tell her you need a couple of months to think about things with her gone. GIVE YOURSELF a couple of months to think about things. If you still feel the same, that you want a divorce, keep it going. I DO think you're doing the right thing by filing immediately. You can always cancel it. You might even marry her all over again. 

This is yet another example of why I'm glad I don't drink, and why I wish my gf never would again. Alcohol is just bad news all the way around....


----------



## LosingHim

@Evinrude58 I agree with the last 5 paragraphs you wrote. What I do think is lacking here is that OP has given us VERY little of what WW is currently doing. From what I've read She confessed. We can all argue that she told because people saw her or threatened her or whatever, but no one really knows. There have been instances where they’ve hid infidelity in the past so why wouldn’t they this time? Sure, they spoke up when questioned, but that’s because at that point they knew he KNEW. He hasn’t said “My friend Joe said he encouraged her to come clean….” Or “Susie said she told her if she didn’t tell me that she would”. There’s no instance of any of the “friends” trying to save their own hides. I find that odd. Did it take her a week or two to confess? Yes. It’s a damn scary thing to look someone in the face and admit to them that you did something really awful. Sure it speaks of integrity, but the fact remains most people are all about self preservation and facing something that’s terrifying is HORRIBLE. Especially if she knew that the most logical outcome is that he will kick her out. To admit, she had to accept that she was probably going to get screamed at, kicked out, called names, there would’ve been a chance of hands laid on her (not saying OP has a propensity for this, just saying in general) and of course to accept the fact that it would probably most likely end her marriage. I don’t care who you are or how much integrity you have, it’s scary. And she did it. Not a year from now when things settled down, not 20 years down the road when the guilt got to her. OP said they went away 3 weeks ago. He’s been here a week. He did not state how many days passed in her telling him, but the fact remains she DID tell him, she seems to have accepted what he’s done as far as kicking her out, etc. and she doesn’t seem to be blaming him and/or alcohol. OP is the one giving the details of alcohol and WE are the ones analyzing that usage. 

I’d be really curious to know how his wife is acting right now. What is she doing? I think that would tell a lot.


----------



## Chaparral

I'm courious about the guy who was with his wife at the party. They were cool playing this game? 

I think it would be more likely your wife was set up. After all they think she's "weird."


----------



## LosingHim

I’m also concerned with the other wife. Women tend to be concerned with other women when they get too drunk. If they all know your wife doesn’t drink often, she’s shy and reserved, I would think this other wife’s radar would be up a bit watching your wife. Being somewhat of the caretaker of your wife as she watches her get totally sloshed and start taking clothes off. And then ESPECIALLY if she started to get chummy with Dan. UNLESS this other woman really hated OP’s wife. Then she would encourage her to drink, get wasted and blow up her marriage. I find it very strange that out of 9 other people not ONE other person had enough sense/integrity to say WTF???? They ALL saw it? They all encouraged it? Not ONE of them said WTF are you doing, knock it off? A group of 3 or 4, maybe. But there wasn’t a stand up person in a group of 10? My friends and I used to drink heavily and often. My old group of friends could be sketchy where blurred lines occurred often, people acted like jacka$$es in lots of different ways. And someone ALWAYS said SOMETHING. Whether it was to tell someone they needed to chill out on the alcohol, that they were being too grabby, reminding them they were committed if they seemed to be too interested in someone of the opposite sex, were getting aggressive or violent or something. Someone always said SOMETHING. They all stood by and said NOTHING about ANYTHING?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I agree LosingHim, I'm shocked the other woman didn't say or do something. If I was out with a woman who got clearly way too drunk and wasn't used to it and doing stupid stuff, I'm gonna go into the sticking together mode and keeping an eye on her. She had a bf there, I'd probably also ask my bf to keep an eye on her around the guys and tell everyone to knock off the drinking games. If for nothing else then making sure she didn't end up hurting herself. Alcohol poisoning is real and can be deadly. Should always be an at least somewhat sober and responsible person in the group to keep things safe. They messaged the husband on the first day "hey, your wife is staying in her room and not socializing all night" but not one messaged "hey, your wife is getting super drunk here" the next?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Oh and those get togethers with my ex and his friends, one time there was a big commotion. Turned out one of the women was too drunk, had to pee so she took down her pants and tried squatting there in front of a bunch of people. She was falling and trying to get up with her pants down and everyone just laughed and took pics. 

One sober person finally broke it up and drove her home. Luckily for her there was someone there to look out for her. Some groups of people suck.


----------



## ButtPunch

What a bunch of garbage I'm reading. 

She cheated.

First of all mate guarding is demonized by feminists and the msm.

It's portrayed as controlling.

Now days from the time a little boy is born he is socially shaped that
trust is good and mate guarding is bad.

He trusted his wife. He clearly ****ed up.


----------



## Louise McCann

Alcohol lowers your inhibitions but it does not make you do something totally against your beliefs and that you could never do, even if someone paid you to. A good friend once told me, "I would never have sex with my mother drunk, so you can Always control yourself."


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Yep, it's clearly the feminists fault that he left his wife, who was uncomfortable, with a group of drunks. It's not like he dropped her off at church camp, this is a group with a history of bad behavior and crappy choices. 

What she did there, her stupid choices that she could have prevented by her numerous times along the way, doesn't change the fact that it was stupid to leave her there in the first place. Most guys would know this. Most women would know this. No, you aren't raised to think it's ok to leave a woman in that situation. In fact we are taught *specifically* not to.


----------



## LosingHim

It’s been said time and time again that she’s responsible for what she did. She didn’t have to drink, she didn’t have to play games, she didn’t have to remove clothing, she didn’t have to cheat. All choices. I still think they were choices made under an altered state by a person inexperienced in the lifestyle she was partaking in. 

A betrayal hurts and does damage. There’s no way around it. But I can tell you I’d love to be dealing with my husband having a drunken ONS because he drank more than normal and wasn’t quite in his right mind rather than a year and a half calculated EA/PA where he told lie after lie after lie, snuck around, hid communication, had me go into work late and jeopardize my job so that he could have his time with his AP, become so engrossed in the ‘fog’ that he was going to leave our marriage because of it, deal with it turning him into a completely different person, reliving all of the horrible things he said to me during that time and trying to deal with each trigger that shows up every time I figure out another little detail. THAT takes a much more calculated and devious mind than someone who got wasted and made a bad choice ONCE.


----------



## Louise McCann

Also if OP's wife was cuddling and flirting with Dan, then alcohol is 100% not the excuse. If I drank to oblivion, I would be in no shape or form to cuddle with anyone, what more flirt with them. I'd more likely be passed out in my own vomit.


----------



## blahfridge

ButtPunch said:


> What a bunch of garbage I'm reading.
> 
> She cheated.
> 
> First of all mate guarding is demonized by feminists and the msm.
> 
> It's portrayed as controlling.
> 
> Now days from the time a little boy is born he is socially shaped that
> trust is good and mate guarding is bad.
> 
> He trusted his wife. He clearly ****ed up.


He trusted his wife around his drunk friends who had covered up another friend's cheating in the past. There's a difference between being controlling and looking out for your spouse. Being married means you take care of each other, and I'd say he failed miserably on that account. The OP says he told her she didn't have to stay, but I'm betting he knew his wife's personality enough to know that she would feel responsible for everyone having a good weekend and not be able to say no. He's also said that he's encouraged her to drink in the past. OP, did you mention to her that your friends noticed that she stayed in her room the night before? Most introverted women are people pleasers and hate to disappoint anyone. It seems to me that there was a domino affect in place in this tragic situation, and unless it can be proved through a poly or some other way that she's cheated before or it was pre-meditated, I'd say it is a tragedy. If my H had cheated once in the way this woman did, after excessive drinking that impaired his judgement to a degree, I would more easily be able to forgive him because I could put it down to a one off. I'm not saying The OP should forgive her, he's entitled to enact whatever consequences he needs to. But a one time incident when someone is drunk to the gills, is very different from a planned, sustained affair. I know it's heretical thinking on TAM, but sometimes there are degrees of cheating, depending on the circumstances.


----------



## LosingHim

Louise McCann said:


> Also if OP's wife was cuddling and flirting with Dan, then alcohol is 100% not the excuse. If I drank to oblivion, I would be in no shape or form to cuddle with anyone, what more flirt with them. I'd more likely be passed out in my own vomit.


This is ANOTHER thing that sits weird with me. She never drinks and she’s on anti-anxiety meds. She had 8 drinks and weighs 100 pounds. This sounds like a recipe for a black-out, pass out or vomit. It’s not logical that she could drink that much, at that size AND on meds that probably made her even MORE sensitive to alcohol and was then functioning enough to make a choice to flirt, make out and eventually sleep with a man. I drink and 8 drinks would have me wastey faced and pretty well not able to function. My husband knows not to attempt sex with me if I’ve hit a certain level because of nausea from moving or being “pinned” in one position and not being able to shift away from the nausea. I guess there’s always the one off chance that she just got wasted and a terrible hangover and nothing more. But odds would say she should have been passed out or vomiting.


----------



## ButtPunch

HE went to work

and off goes her shirt.

I'm sorry.

I'm not buying it.

Yes there are worse degrees of cheating.

She may not be the typical narcissist we see here.

However, the pain is the same for the OP.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Louise McCann said:


> Also if OP's wife was cuddling and flirting with Dan, then alcohol is 100% not the excuse. If I drank to oblivion, I would be in no shape or form to cuddle with anyone, what more flirt with them. I'd more likely be passed out in my own vomit.


The very few times I have been drunk I actually didn't throw up or pass out. I was giggly and jumpy and tons of energy, loud. Probably really annoying (but I did not care at the time) and happy. If the room wasn't spinning I could have jumped and danced around all night. I did have sex, though it was a bf and not a stranger. Bits here and there are missing, fairly sure I fell off the bed because I thought the room was really spinning and I was dizzy, and I thought I was going to die the next day. One of the times I fell asleep on the bathroom floor cause the tile was cold and I liked the cold. I drank a lot, like chugging from the bottle of vodka a lot. 

Drunk doesn't always = passed out and throw up. 

I had no ability to do anything for myself those nights but I was with people I trusted. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. 
OP's wife's series of mistakes started with her taking her first drink that night. She had no idea how it would affect her and if she would have the ability to look out for herself. She shouldn't have had anything to drink. 
And the friends shouldn't have encouraged her to either.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, the point about meds + drinking is one that is important. Another reason I don't drink. Being off your meds for a day or two doesn't get them out of your system and there is still interactions between the two.
> 
> And I agree that "_Your number one job in life is to protect your family._" That is how I feel as well.





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yep, it's clearly the feminists fault that he left his wife, who was uncomfortable, with a group of drunks. It's not like he dropped her off at church camp, this is a group with a history of bad behavior and crappy choices.
> 
> What she did there, her stupid choices that she could have prevented by her numerous times along the way, doesn't change the fact that it was stupid to leave her there in the first place. Most guys would know this. Most women would know this. No, you aren't raised to think it's ok to leave a woman in that situation. In fact we are taught *specifically* not to.


 A LOT of cognitive dissonance here. So what is it helpless waif who can't be trusted and needs her husband to make decisions, gauge her alcohol intake, control who she hangs out with, and be her personal pharmacologist to make sure she doesn't do anything stupid while on Depression meds? ( Normally referred to as a controlling *******) Or is it an empowered woman who can be trusted until proven otherwise, make her own decisions , control her own behavior and suffer the consequences when she doesn't? He can't win with you ... period.
I guess it's easy to see how you can get an incredibly high post count when you can't lose an argument or 'agree to disagree" . Geeze, This dead horse has been beat to a pulp.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I'm not the only one with the opinion that he shouldn't have left her there. 
It was stupid. Imo anyone who refuses to see that is just making any bh saintly who can do no wrong and all ww horrible, immoral people. It is not black and white. 
And there are many places you can call WW sl*ts and party girls. That's just as much a dead horse as any other opinion.


----------



## VladDracul

SGC, its just that most men and women would like to think they can leave the spouse un-monitored a couple of days without worrying about them hopping in the sack with someone.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

VladDracul said:


> SGC, its just that most men and women would like to think they can leave the spouse un-monitored a couple of days without worrying about them hopping in the sack with someone.


Well people can look at any of the other posters and why they feel it was a stupid choice to leave her in that specific situation with those friends when she said she was uncomfortable if they feel I am biased in my opinion. It would be hard to claim everyone with that opinion is biased and just blindly pro-women. No one has said you can't leave your wife somewhere. This specific situation was a stupid idea.


----------



## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> Actually, there was a third option that no one seemed to consider --
> 
> OP and his wife _both_ leave, and he leaves the keys with his friends.
> 
> Easy peasy.


How could you have a story if the wife would have left with the husband?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm not the only one with the opinion that he shouldn't have left her there.
> It was stupid. Imo anyone who refuses to see that is just making any bh saintly who can do no wrong and all ww horrible, immoral people. It is not black and white.
> And there are many places you can call WW sl*ts and party girls. That's just as much a dead horse as any other opinion.


 I never called her a party girl, and don't believe that's the case,so I'd appreciate you having your facts straight before accusing me of anything. 
I'm referring mainly to how you always seem to demonize the man over and over, post after post, thread after thread. In this case you think he should have took her with him. he gave her the choice. If she was posting about something different and stated her husband made her leave the party because he didn't trust her around his guy friends you'd advise her to dump the controlling jerk. It's misandry and it's hypocritical.
As Vladdracul said:


> its just that most men and women would like to think they can leave the spouse un-monitored a couple of days without worrying about them hopping in the sack with someone.


 Obviously, as you've redundantly stated, you don't feel she should have to live up to that low bar of expectation. We will have to agree to disagree on that point.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

No, I wouldn't tell her to leave the controlling jerk. I've said many times that I would expect my boyfriend to take me home if I said I was uncomfortable. Get your facts straight. I have posted to men advising them that their wife is not good and her choices are crappy too. I'm not going to demonize every WW because TAM likes to get out the pitchforks. 
The party girl comments are directed at the guys who have said over and over she is a party girl, serial cheater, planned the whole thing and probably lied about her rape too, sl*t wife 
Why haven't you responded to any of the men who have the same opinion that she shouldn't have been left there?


----------



## ConanHub

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm not the only one with the opinion that he shouldn't have left her there.
> It was stupid. Imo anyone who refuses to see that is just making any bh saintly who can do no wrong and all ww horrible, immoral people. It is not black and white.
> And there are many places you can call WW sl*ts and party girls. That's just as much a dead horse as any other opinion.


I agree with the first part. Pretty dumb situation to leave her in.

WW are sl*Ts. They don't have to remain sl*Ts but screwing other men while married definitely fits the definition in my book... which is the only one that matters...😉


----------



## Rubix Cubed

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No, I wouldn't tell her to leave the controlling jerk. I've said many times that I would expect my boyfriend to take me home if I said I was uncomfortable. Get your facts straight. I have posted to men advising them that their wife is not good and her choices are crappy too. I'm not going to demonize every WW because TAM likes to get out the pitchforks.
> The party girl comments are directed at the guys who have said over and over she is a party girl, serial cheater, planned the whole thing and probably lied about her rape too, sl*t wife
> Why haven't you responded to any of the men who have the same opinion that she shouldn't have been left there?


 Because they stated their opinion and left it alone instead of going on and on and on ....
I wouldn't have replied to you either if you said it once. Instead you try to browbeat everyone into agreeing with you.


----------



## Louise McCann

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also if OP's wife was cuddling and flirting with Dan, then alcohol is 100% not the excuse. If I drank to oblivion, I would be in no shape or form to cuddle with anyone, what more flirt with them. I'd more likely be passed out in my own vomit.
> 
> 
> 
> The very few times I have been drunk I actually didn't throw up or pass out. I was giggly and jumpy and tons of energy, loud. Probably really annoying (but I did not care at the time) and happy. If the room wasn't spinning I could have jumped and danced around all night. I did have sex, though it was a bf and not a stranger. Bits here and there are missing, fairly sure I fell off the bed because I thought the room was really spinning and I was dizzy, and I thought I was going to die the next day. One of the times I fell asleep on the bathroom floor cause the tile was cold and I liked the cold. I drank a lot, like chugging from the bottle of vodka a lot.
> 
> Drunk doesn't always = passed out and throw up.
> 
> I had no ability to do anything for myself those nights but I was with people I trusted. I wouldn't have done it otherwise.
> OP's wife's series of mistakes started with her taking her first drink that night. She had no idea how it would affect her and if she would have the ability to look out for herself. She shouldn't have had anything to drink.
> And the friends shouldn't have encouraged her to either.
Click to expand...

Right, definitely being drunk doesn't always equate to passing out/vomit. Being absolutely wasted/too drunk to do not know what you are doing, YES. If you can flirt, you are technically still semi-functional. I may be able to overlook some snogging but full-on sex, no. Unless she was raped, simple as. 

I myself was one hell of a party girl and binged drink wayyy too often. I too used to weigh 100 lbs (10 lbs heavier now that I recently became a mum) & I am 5'4. I call BULL**** on your WW. I have been drunk/high too often, in a club too, and never once cheated on my STBX. I never even made out or danced with a guy (I was fiercely loyal). Anyone would agree that a nightclub would encourage that sort of behaviour too but even pissed drunk me only wanted to run into the arms of my man.

Ages ago when I was single, at a club, I got wayyy too drunk and obviously sick. I could not even remember who I had encountered in there. Apparently I had made out with a very unattractive guy there with bad teeth, and he walked me home while I phoned my friend. As I arrived at the compound, I ran to my friend who had been waiting with a big hug and begged him to tell the unattractive guy to leave. I had no recollection of the night! It was my friend who had told me this so even in my drunken stupour, I did not sleep with someone I obviously found very unattractive.

If a young party girl in college, with a very promiscuous past, could get wasted on copious amounts of alcohol + other substances, in a freaking nightclub, yet still be more trustworthy and never once came close or even tempted to cheat on her partner... then your wife very much so wanted Dan's ****, whether secretly or not. Alcohol allowed her to feel free to do it. She would not have done something she didn't want to do. 

Once again, how many people have had sex or flirted with their mums under the influence? That's right probably none! Cause' we wouldn't do something that would never cross our minds!!


----------



## TDSC60

OP trusted the wrong people. He trusted his wife to stay sober and act like his trusted wife. He trusted his friends to protect his wife while he was away.

Turns out he really could not trust any of them to behave in a moral manner. Certainly if any of them respected the OP, this would not have happened.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Louise McCann said:


> If a young party girl in college, with a very promiscuous past, could get wasted on copious amounts of alcohol + other substances, in a freaking nightclub, yet still be more trustworthy and never once came close or even tempted to cheat on her partner... then your wife very much so wanted Dan's ****, whether secretly or not. Alcohol allowed her to feel free to do it. She would not have done something she didn't want to do.


Your logic and rational reasoning has no place in this thread... 

Be gone with you! You're making the WW not look like a victim.


----------



## Evinrude58

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The very few times I have been drunk I actually didn't throw up or pass out. I was giggly and jumpy and tons of energy, loud. Probably really annoying (but I did not care at the time) and happy. If the room wasn't spinning I could have jumped and danced around all night. I did have sex, though it was a bf and not a stranger. Bits here and there are missing, fairly sure I fell off the bed because I thought the room was really spinning and I was dizzy, and I thought I was going to die the next day. One of the times I fell asleep on the bathroom floor cause the tile was cold and I liked the cold. I drank a lot, like chugging from the bottle of vodka a lot.
> 
> Drunk doesn't always = passed out and throw up.
> 
> I had no ability to do anything for myself those nights but I was with people I trusted. I wouldn't have done it otherwise.
> OP's wife's series of mistakes started with her taking her first drink that night. She had no idea how it would affect her and if she would have the ability to look out for herself. She shouldn't have had anything to drink.
> And the friends shouldn't have encouraged her to either.


Yeah, an adult would have no idea that getting drunk off her ass with a bunch of men might lead to bad judgement. The effects of alcohol are a freaking secret.
Really?


----------



## SunCMars

BetrayedDad said:


> Your logic and rational reasoning has no place in this thread...
> 
> Be gone with you! You're making the WW not look like a victim.


B&D, my friend.

She IS a victim.
And she also IS a cheater.

There are ghosts in her attic. 
They come out when the Moon is Blue, the air breezy and warm.
And when Jack Daniels dances a Jig.

A Jig, inside the soft rim, atop that belly button platter. It so tiny.

Oh, God. This, so timely.
So timely was this. And this is why I write.
I see timely things.

This was bound to happen.
It was a setup............. by no man present. And that make her a victim.
A victim who was taken, her mind clouded, she petted the devil....and his oft used name is Dan. Look it up.
Never look down.

Imagine that.

Just Sayin'


----------



## BetrayedDad

Maybe Dan was the sheep.... she wouldn't be the first drunk girl to throw herself at a guy.

I've yet to hear a shred of actual evidence that he was the aggressor other than him being male.

They were all behaving badly, no one knows who made the first move or who played what role.


----------



## blahfridge

It's a fallacious argument to say that because I got wasted and was able to avoid bad behavior (though kissing a guy with bad teeth comes close) that it's impossible that the OP's wife couldn't have been able to do the same. Everyone's body chemistry is different and the bottom line is that this is all conjecture. We have no idea what really happened that night and she may not really know exactly what happened either. Except that she knows she cheated and has taken responsibility for it, according to her H. Yes, she did wrong and she's done irreparable harm, for which she is paying the price in losing her H and marriage. The circumstances don't matter anymore. It's a very sad situation all around.


----------



## jdr8

My wife has been staying with my parents. Her family lives across the country and my parents will take in anyone off the street. She could murder me and they’d take her in. 

She is taking escitalopram, which yes says no alcohol but that does not make someone cheat. Blaming cheating on a medication is no better than blaming in on alcohol. 

My wife gave me a whole story today about how she had never before had sex with him, kissed him or even touched him. How they never previously texted and she still doesn’t have his number. How he has shown no interest in her since he pulled out. How they have only talked after the affair about me, via Facebook. How she has been attracted to him for a few years all because he held our child as a newborn. How he said things that increased the attraction towards him and lessened it towards me. And the kicker of “it just happened” and she was curious. She hasn’t tried to blame the alcohol specifically, but she doesn’t need to. She cries non-stop and obviously expects me to just forgive her and let her come back home. 

Yes, a friend texted me Friday night and mentioned that my wife had basically locked herself in her room without even going out to pee. My wife has had such bad anxiety in the past that she pissed and crapped in an empty container in our room, rather than walk 10 steps to the washroom in front of people. Where the hell was that anxiety that Saturday/Sunday? And yes, I called my wife and told her to loosen up and drink with my friends. She said she didn’t want to be the weird on so she drank. If she drank so much that she couldn’t help but cheat she wouldn’t be able to remember all of the details that she does. She could give me a complete time line for ****s sake. For all I know she barely drank and was sober as ****. 

Those who mentioned the other husband or wife noticing her actions, they are always the drunkest of the bunch and the first to get drunk. One friend, who was my best man, I would expect to tell me if something was going on. He noticed it all and didn’t say a word. He’s also who helped the other wife cheat year ago. So ya’ll are right, the whole lot of them can shove it. 

I still call BS on it all. It took her nearly 2 ****ing years to have sex with me or even be naked in front of me. But with Danny Boy she does it all on one night? No. 

I feel like a dumb ass for continuing to go back and forth on what I plan to do. Early today I was confident that we should try and work it out, now I hope she rots. So why the **** can that opinion not stick in my head and be done with it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

It is a roller coaster ride OP. And I hate to say, but for years. You'll feel fine for weeks and then something will trigger you and you'll be right back here. It's an actual form of ptsd. 

Many people end up taking meds at this time. If not, try to focus on you. Go running, go to the gym and beat the crap out of a boxing bag. Go to the movies. Keep busy and treat yourself. But some nice clothes. I don't know what boys do to splurge but be selfish. 

Take care of you. Whatever situation led to where you are now, where you are now sucks so take it one day at a time. 

I don't think leaving her and telling her to drink was a good idea but for now just try to keep your mind and body busy with productive and positive things.


----------



## Roselyn

OP, see a marriage counselor for the both of you. See your own individual psychologist, so that you can set your mind in the right direction. I can't believe that it took her 2 years to be intimate with you & one night only with your friend. As for hiding in the room & urinating in a container, that spell mental problems to me. There are several problems in your situation. You've got to sort this out. Starting gate with dealing with your own mind is the first step.

You need to lose your friends and begin a lifestyle without parties & sleep-over drinking. Do not rugsweep your wife's affair. She is broken & you know it. If she is in medication, I speculate that she is already under the care of a psychiatrist. Sorry you are here.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe Dan was the sheep.... she wouldn't be the first drunk girl to throw herself at a guy.
> 
> I've yet to hear a shred of actual evidence that he was the aggressor other than him being male.
> 
> They were all behaving badly, no one knows who made the first move or who played what role.


Wolf or sheep, predator or prey? The answer to that is utterly irrelevant. 

Even if I'm falling down sloppy drunk, hotly pursued and skillfully seduced by a total sex goddess, I don't sleep with her if she's my buddy's wife. Dan does not deserve our understanding. The only thing Dan deserves is OP's boot so far up his ass it lodges his kidney in his throat.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

jdr8 said:


> My wife has been staying with my parents. Her family lives across the country and my parents will take in anyone off the street. She could murder me and they’d take her in.
> 
> She is taking escitalopram, which yes says no alcohol but that does not make someone cheat. Blaming cheating on a medication is no better than blaming in on alcohol.
> 
> My wife gave me a whole story today about how she had never before had sex with him, kissed him or even touched him. How they never previously texted and she still doesn’t have his number. How he has shown no interest in her since he pulled out. How they have only talked after the affair about me, via Facebook. How she has been attracted to him for a few years all because he held our child as a newborn. How he said things that increased the attraction towards him and lessened it towards me. And the kicker of “it just happened” and she was curious. She hasn’t tried to blame the alcohol specifically, but she doesn’t need to. She cries non-stop and obviously expects me to just forgive her and let her come back home.
> 
> Yes, a friend texted me Friday night and mentioned that my wife had basically locked herself in her room without even going out to pee. My wife has had such bad anxiety in the past that she pissed and crapped in an empty container in our room, rather than walk 10 steps to the washroom in front of people. Where the hell was that anxiety that Saturday/Sunday? And yes, I called my wife and told her to loosen up and drink with my friends. She said she didn’t want to be the weird on so she drank. If she drank so much that she couldn’t help but cheat she wouldn’t be able to remember all of the details that she does. She could give me a complete time line for ****s sake. For all I know she barely drank and was sober as ****.
> 
> Those who mentioned the other husband or wife noticing her actions, they are always the drunkest of the bunch and the first to get drunk. One friend, who was my best man, I would expect to tell me if something was going on. He noticed it all and didn’t say a word. He’s also who helped the other wife cheat year ago. So ya’ll are right, the whole lot of them can shove it.
> 
> I still call BS on it all. It took her nearly 2 ****ing years to have sex with me or even be naked in front of me. But with Danny Boy she does it all on one night? No.
> 
> I feel like a dumb ass for continuing to go back and forth on what I plan to do. Early today I was confident that we should try and work it out, now I hope she rots. So why the **** can that opinion not stick in my head and be done with it.


You need time away from her. I am a BH, and I have been able to R, going on two years from Dday. First you are not a dumbass, but you do need space and time away to clear your head and determine what you want to do whether it be r or d. The beauty of it as one person told me two years ago on here is " you do Not have to make a decision yet. " 

I strongly encourage you to think would my life be better with her or without her? That is what you need to determine to choose your course of action.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Wolf or sheep, predator or prey? The answer to that is utterly irrelevant.
> 
> Even if I'm falling down sloppy drunk, hotly pursued and skillfully seduced by a total sex goddess, I don't sleep with her if she's my buddy's wife. Dan does not deserve our understanding. The only thing Dan deserves is OP's boot so far up his ass it lodges his kidney in his throat.


My point is not that OM is innocent. My point is she is just as guilty. It's like trying to decide who is worse, Bonnie or Clyde. The only victim here is OP. Was it stupid of him to leave her in that situation? Yes. Does that mean he deserved or should of expected something like this to happen? Absolutely not. 

Bottom line: He's her husband not her warden, he should of been able to leave for a week and not be concerned if his wife's pants were around her ankles. The fact that they were ought to be a deal breaker. I can assure you OP, there are PLENTY of women with a lot more restraint than your party girl wife.


----------



## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> I feel like a dumb ass for continuing to go back and forth on what I plan to do. Early today I was confident that we should try and work it out, now I hope she rots. So why the **** can that opinion not stick in my head and be done with it.


Even I waffled around OP. Finding out your spouse is a cheating scumbag is one of the biggest mind ****s out there.

All I can tell you is full steam ahead, things WILL get better mentally for you and you will survive this. I promise you that.

I've yet to meet a soul who regretted leaving their cheating spouse but I've met plenty including me who are happy they did.


----------



## jdr8

Her story of the day was

Dan was the first “stranger” that she felt comfortable around. It started when we moved in together and Dan came over for the first time, I was still at work and she very nervously let him inside alone. After that she felt more comfortable around him and he got checked into a safe box. A few years later her attraction started. We had our child and Dan wanted to hold the baby every time he came over. Seeing Dan hold our baby sparked the attraction. In her mind he was more attentive than I was. Every time Dan came over my wife stayed in our room because she didn’t want to see him because she was attracted to him. When she did come out Dan talked to her a lot and made negative comments about me that I magically didn’t ever hear. Which she clung to and made him seem more appealing, saying my negative behaviors/traits are things he’d never do. He had never tried to start anything with her, which let her keep trusting him. His personality is exactly what she needs to feel comfortable. The way he looked at her over the years she thought he might be interested in her but he had never made any advances. 

When they started drinking he didn’t pressure her to drink at all, others did. She drank from 7PM-2AM. He stayed quiet and in the background. She doesn’t know how much he drank. She was sitting between the other husband and Dan’s brother. Around 10-11PM Dan’s brother got up and my wife moved over so she was sitting next to Dan. He adjusted his chair so he was sitting nice and close so he was touching her (sitting around the table). She wanted to sit next to him because others were getting drunk and roudy and he wasn’t/she felt more comfortable next to him. When Dan is drunk he simply stays quiet, he was also high (weed) and relaxed. They sat like that for hours, everyone playing games. Around 2AM is when everyone wanted to watch a movie. She sat on the couch first, followed by Dan. Other wife wanted to sit so my wife moved over, squished between other wife and Dan. Watched part of a movie, people were falling asleep so they went to their rooms. My wife fell asleep next to dan, leaning on him. They woke up at the same time or he woke her up. Netflix was still playing so it was within an hour of falling asleep. She was still in her bra and jeans. He complimented her body. 

Followed by some sex details that I’m not sure I want to share and have to type our and re-read over and over. It was a lot of HE leaned in for the first kiss. HE undid her bra. HE complimented her. HE undid her jeans. HE touched her. HE put his hand down her pants, HE wanted nothing to do with her when they woke up the next morning (like she should care?!?). HE, HE, HE. She took blame but it was buried between a lot of he’s. Why not "I let him kiss me. I let him touch me. I let him undo my clothing. I, I, I.".

Now I get to fall asleep thinking about my wife being rammed by my 'friend'.


----------



## *Deidre*

I'm not sure now what to make of this story.  I think it's sad for you _and_ your wife, for different reasons. Take your time to process everything, and then make a decision.


----------



## sokillme

Does every young women today cheat? Must all men just be expected to shut up and take it? AGHH.

If it was my friend I would go pop him in the mouth. Just saying.

Some of this is on you though man, hang out with lions don't be surprised when they eat your young.


----------



## BetrayedDad

@jdr8 

Her new trickle truth sounds pretty straight forward. 

She did everything in her power to put herself in a position to get ****ed by Dan.

Mission accomplished.


----------



## ABHale

The party is no excuse. 

When I was married I was stationed in Japan for a year. Went out drinking with friends all the time, male and female. Got wasted a few times, friends got wasted. It never lead to jumping in bed with any of them. Hell for the most part Allen and myself would make sure the girls got back to the barracks ok. 

The situation has nothing to do with her cheating. It would have happened somewhere else if not there. 

The thing that gets me is she did this in the open with a house full of other men. 

No way in hell would I stay with a woman that could cheat like this.


----------



## Louise McCann

BetrayedDad said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a young party girl in college, with a very promiscuous past, could get wasted on copious amounts of alcohol + other substances, in a freaking nightclub, yet still be more trustworthy and never once came close or even tempted to cheat on her partner... then your wife very much so wanted Dan's ****, whether secretly or not. Alcohol allowed her to feel free to do it. She would not have done something she didn't want to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Your logic and rational reasoning has no place in this thread...
> 
> Be gone with you! You're making the WW not look like a victim.
Click to expand...

That's because the WW is NOT a victim. She cheated on OP, even admitted it. If she was a victim of rape then that would be a different story but she very much so came clean and said it was consensual, albeit a result of intoxication. As a married woman, she should have known better than to have 8 drinks and stopped when she was tipsy. I have little sympathy for those who cheat and blame alcohol for it. It was very much so in her control and she could have done a lot to prevent it.


----------



## Louise McCann

blahfridge said:


> It's a fallacious argument to say that because I got wasted and was able to avoid bad behavior (though kissing a guy with bad teeth comes close) that it's impossible that the OP's wife couldn't have been able to do the same. Everyone's body chemistry is different and the bottom line is that this is all conjecture. We have no idea what really happened that night and she may not really know exactly what happened either. Except that she knows she cheated and has taken responsibility for it, according to her H. Yes, she did wrong and she's done irreparable harm, for which she is paying the price in losing her H and marriage. The circumstances don't matter anymore. It's a very sad situation all around.


Yeah true we are all unique individuals but as there is no scientific basis to explain the behaviour of drunk cheating spouses, I thought my scenario might help draw some sort of comparison. Even then most studies are based off real life examples and findings anyway. 

Ultimately, as a single adolescent, I did not do something I knew I would be 10000% against even though I had nothing to lose. I never said it was "impossible" for her to have the same level of restraint, but that being said, OP's wife was married and had SO much to lose. I too have slept with men and regretted it so I should be able to relate but this was not just a mistake or lack of judgement on WW's part. The fact that she could forget about her marriage and threw her boundaries out the window just says a lot to me about her character & lack of commitment towards OP.

Btw OP, I have been on escitalopram and drank heaps with it. Still was never tempted to have another man's **** inside of me. I am glad you are seeing things objectively and not buying into her excuses, you are a very strong man. She did after all, cheat on you with your friend, in front of all your other friends! I cannot begin to comprehend the level of betrayal and anguish you must be going through presently and I'm sure many people are applauding you for holding your head up high. You deserve only a loyal self-respecting woman


----------



## doconiram

jdr8 said:


> Her story of the day was
> 
> 
> 
> When they started drinking he didn’t pressure her to drink at all, others did. She drank from 7PM-2AM. He stayed quiet and in the background. She doesn’t know how much he drank. She was sitting between the other husband and Dan’s brother. Around 10-11PM Dan’s brother got up and my wife moved over so she was sitting next to Dan. He adjusted his chair so he was sitting nice and close so he was touching her (sitting around the table). She wanted to sit next to him because others were getting drunk and roudy and he wasn’t/she felt more comfortable next to him. When Dan is drunk he simply stays quiet, he was also high (weed) and relaxed. They sat like that for hours, everyone playing games. Around 2AM is when everyone wanted to watch a movie. She sat on the couch first, followed by Dan. Other wife wanted to sit so my wife moved over, squished between other wife and Dan. Watched part of a movie, people were falling asleep so they went to their rooms. *My wife fell asleep next to dan, leaning on him. They woke up at the same time or he woke her up. Netflix was still playing so it was within an hour of falling asleep. She was still in her bra and jeans. He complimented her body.*


The bolded part makes me think she wasn't very drunk at all or this still isn't the actual story. 

Not that being drunk is an excuse, it is not.

My point is, I have seen lots of people who crash when they are drunk. Waking them up after an hour of sleep... and then getting this kind of recall, etc. She wasn't drinking very much or this story will change more later.

For a shy person, to just hang out next to someone in her bra and lean up against him to go to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me.

You know her best. If this doesn't make sense to you, that is most likely because it is not the truth.

Best of luck.


----------



## Satya

@jdr8, is your wife seeing a therapist? I realize she's medicated, but is she seeing anyone regularly to talk about her anxiety and poor judgement/rationalization and get help? 

I'm not defending her or you. You both made poor choices IMO that cannot begin to be compared in terms of severity and lasting consequence. I know you're hurting and livid. 

Your wife wouldn't be the first woman to soak up attention from another man and see what she wants to see. I've been guilty of this myself when I wa younger. I'm not that person today because of better boundaries.

Leaving your wife is your choice and from my pov, understandable, but I'd ask you to look at two things about yourself : 1) the kinds of friends you allow into your life hereafter and 2) the kinds of women you want in your life in the future.

If I may be so bold in my assumptions, I'd say you banked a lot on your wife's anxiety as a means of thinking she'd stay "in check" so to speak and do the right thing. Anxiety is not confidence. Anxiety brings a need for security (a well discussed topic here already). Anxiety is a psychological and partly reflexive safety mechanism and to inhibit it with alcohol is like peeling back the outside layers of an onion to find the forbidden, exciting layer we ALL have underneath, because we're all human. Some of us just have better practiced sense than others to keep it covered.

I think your wife needs a lot of assistance you cannot provide her. She'll be carrying this with her for a long time, and you'll be processing it for likely as long, even if you find a way to move on. In future, I'd offer you find a woman without anxiety and with good boundaries. The kind of boundaries you expected from your wife on that night.


----------



## Louise McCann

Satya said:


> Anxiety is not confidence. Anxiety brings a need for security (a well discussed topic here already). Anxiety is a psychological and partly reflexive safety mechanism and to inhibit it with alcohol is like peeling back the outside layers of an onion to find the forbidden, exciting layer we ALL have underneath, because we're all human. Some of us just have better practiced sense than others to keep it covered.


Well said, Satya, I can't second this enough! Many seemingly confident and outspoken people actually do struggle with anxiety as well, yet most people might not have a clue. 

I really like your onion analogy too haha. Alcohol helps to peel off an onion to reveal its true core, but it doesn't turn an onion into an apple or entirely different fruit. I am sure OP will do the right thing, he seems to be thinking very rationally despite the hurt. I do worry about the children and hope this won't have a lasting effect on them :/ my thoughts are with you, OP!


----------



## manwithnoname

Is it Dan's kid? The one he always wanted to hold?


----------



## kaybenn

9

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk


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## jdr8

manwithnoname said:


> Is it Dan's kid? The one he always wanted to hold?


Dan doesn't have any kids, so it better ****ing not be. None of our friends have kids yet so I don't have anything to compare his behaviour to. He came over a lot more often after our child was born, it lessened over time after the first year.


----------



## jdr8

Satya said:


> @jdr8, is your wife seeing a therapist? I realize she's medicated, but is she seeing anyone regularly to talk about her anxiety and poor judgement/rationalization and get help?
> 
> I'm not defending her or you. You both made poor choices IMO that cannot begin to be compared in terms of severity and lasting consequence. I know you're hurting and livid.
> 
> Your wife wouldn't be the first woman to soak up attention from another man and see what she wants to see. I've been guilty of this myself when I wa younger. I'm not that person today because of better boundaries.
> 
> Leaving your wife is your choice and from my pov, understandable, but I'd ask you to look at two things about yourself : 1) the kinds of friends you allow into your life hereafter and 2) the kinds of women you want in your life in the future.
> 
> If I may be so bold in my assumptions, I'd say you banked a lot on your wife's anxiety as a means of thinking she'd stay "in check" so to speak and do the right thing. Anxiety is not confidence. Anxiety brings a need for security (a well discussed topic here already). Anxiety is a psychological and partly reflexive safety mechanism and to inhibit it with alcohol is like peeling back the outside layers of an onion to find the forbidden, exciting layer we ALL have underneath, because we're all human. Some of us just have better practiced sense than others to keep it covered.
> 
> I think your wife needs a lot of assistance you cannot provide her. She'll be carrying this with her for a long time, and you'll be processing it for likely as long, even if you find a way to move on. In future, I'd offer you find a woman without anxiety and with good boundaries. The kind of boundaries you expected from your wife on that night.


She is suppose to see a therapist weekly, sometimes twice weekly, and has been for the past 10 years. Based on the phone calls I have been getting about missed appointments, she hasn't gone since her weekend sexpades at our cottage. Guess he ****ed the anxiety and brokenness right out of her. 

I did trust my wife more due to her anxiety and the past that she wrote for herself. Because she said she was raped and the way that she acted for the entirety of our relationship and before we started a romantic relationship, I couldn't ever see her cheating or coming close to cheating. When I think about it I was trusting her mental health problems, not her. I couldn't see a woman who had been held down and gang raped by 14 men as a gang initiation for a new member, who took 2 years to have sex with me, who took over a year to kiss me or let me touch her, who was terrified to be around my friends, who walked a mile to avoid a group of men in public, who was unable to say thank you to anyone due to being forced to say it, who would rather hide than see my friends, who would rather eliminate in a container than walk by my friends to use the washroom, who kind of lost it when our child was born and people kept touching her and checking her, who wrote on the paperwork at the hospital that she was raped, who moved across the country as soon as she could, to **** a friend of mine while the rest could get popcorn and watch. My bad.


----------



## Tobyboy

jdr8 said:


> Dan doesn't have any kids, so it better ****ing not be. None of our friends have kids yet so I don't have anything to compare his behaviour to. He came over a lot more often after our child was born, it lessened over time after the first year.


What has your wife said about the three weeks between the sex and the confession? Was she trying to pursue a relationship with Dan? Or was it mostly damage control? Can you read the messages she exchanged with Dan on Facebook/messenger?


----------



## jdr8

doconiram said:


> The bolded part makes me think she wasn't very drunk at all or this still isn't the actual story.
> 
> Not that being drunk is an excuse, it is not.
> 
> My point is, I have seen lots of people who crash when they are drunk. Waking them up after an hour of sleep... and then getting this kind of recall, etc. She wasn't drinking very much or this story will change more later.
> 
> For a shy person, to just hang out next to someone in her bra and lean up against him to go to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> You know her best. If this doesn't make sense to you, that is most likely because it is not the truth.
> 
> Best of luck.


I'm still waiting for her to say that she's been ****ing him for the last 5-7 years. She will barely sleep in her underwear with ME, but will do it with him? In her original story her wore a condom, that he brought with him to a cottage with 8 other dudes and two married women. In her next story he didn't use a condom but pulled out, she said he did because she thought it's what I'd want to hear. In her most recent version he didn't use a condom and didn't pull out. Even though we've been trying for another baby she hates when I come in her, yet he gets to do it? When she knows she's not on birth control? Now she says she took plan b afterwards and isn't pregnant. 

I asked the most sober guy and he said he remembered her drinking 3-4 drinks but wasn't really watching her. He took notice because he opened them for her and she kept knocking the empties in front of her over. That's a far cry from 8.


----------



## jdr8

Tobyboy said:


> What has your wife said about the three weeks between the sex and the confession? Was she trying to pursue a relationship with Dan? Or was it mostly damage control? Can you read the messages she exchanged with Dan on Facebook/messenger?


She said that she didn't see him during that time and only talked to him via Facebook messenger. I did read the conversations (I suppose I should note that she hasn't changed any of her passwords, but I don't have access to her phone since I kicked her out). There was nothing in the conversation at all until a week after their affair. He asked her how we were doing and said I'd come around. Not much else was talked about. Another week later he asked the same thing and asked how she was but there was no response from my wife. She could have deleted what she didn't want me to see. She knows I have her passwords, she told me where they were communicating. Her reason for waiting to tell me was because she didn't know how to tell me and was scared.


----------



## Tobyboy

You really need to get those messages! Either from her or Dan!


----------



## Tobyboy

Dan wrote you'd "come around" a week after the affair?? That don't make sense!! You had no clue. Why would he write that? You have a major liar in your hands. I'm pretty sure there was a lot more communication between them than just messages.


----------



## jdr8

Roselyn said:


> OP, see a marriage counselor for the both of you. See your own individual psychologist, so that you can set your mind in the right direction. I can't believe that it took her 2 years to be intimate with you & one night only with your friend. As for hiding in the room & urinating in a container, that spell mental problems to me. There are several problems in your situation. You've got to sort this out. Starting gate with dealing with your own mind is the first step.
> 
> You need to lose your friends and begin a lifestyle without parties & sleep-over drinking. Do not rugsweep your wife's affair. She is broken & you know it. If she is in medication, I speculate that she is already under the care of a psychiatrist. Sorry you are here.


I suspect a marriage counsellor would just tell me to get over it or come up with some "psychological" reason why it all happened and needs to be swept under the rug. For all I know she has been ****ing other men for a long time and is just a great actor or I'm the dumbest thing to land on the planet. 

When we first got together every single one of my friends told me not to date her because she was weird (wouldn't talk to them, avoided them, hid from them, wouldn't let me touch her, sexless, etc). A night that I got totally wasted I told them all that she was gang raped and too many privileged details and again they all said to dump her. She was broken. It wasn't worth it. To find someone normal. I should have listened.


----------



## Satya

jdr8 said:


> She is suppose to see a therapist weekly, sometimes twice weekly, and has been for the past 10 years. Based on the phone calls I have been getting about missed appointments, she hasn't gone since her weekend sexpades at our cottage. Guess he ****ed the anxiety and brokenness right out of her.
> 
> I did trust my wife more due to her anxiety and the past that she wrote for herself. Because she said she was raped and the way that she acted for the entirety of our relationship and before we started a romantic relationship, I couldn't ever see her cheating or coming close to cheating. When I think about it I was trusting her mental health problems, not her. I couldn't see a woman who had been held down and gang raped by 14 men as a gang initiation for a new member, who took 2 years to have sex with me, who took over a year to kiss me or let me touch her, who was terrified to be around my friends, who walked a mile to avoid a group of men in public, who was unable to say thank you to anyone due to being forced to say it, who would rather hide than see my friends, who would rather eliminate in a container than walk by my friends to use the washroom, who kind of lost it when our child was born and people kept touching her and checking her, who wrote on the paperwork at the hospital that she was raped, who moved across the country as soon as she could, to **** a friend of mine while the rest could get popcorn and watch. My bad.


There are a LOT of BS here who also could not at all picture their spouses/SO/FWS committing acts that they did. Many, many people in this world do not show their true nature because they're afraid or ashamed to. Worst case, they have an agenda.


----------



## VladDracul

jdr8 said:


> She said that she didn't see him during that time and only talked to him via Facebook messenger. I did read the conversations (I suppose I should note that she hasn't changed any of her passwords, but I don't have access to her phone since I kicked her out). There was nothing in the conversation at all until a week after their affair.


Since its not possible to have multiple facebook, email, linkedin, et cetera, accounts, I'm sure all her messages were available for perusal and no way she could go ghost with any of this.


----------



## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> Dan doesn't have any kids, so it better ****ing not be. None of our friends have kids yet so I don't have anything to compare his behaviour to. He came over a lot more often after our child was born, it lessened over time after the first year.


Interesting he came over so much to hold your baby.

You need to get a paternity test done on your kid. NOW.

You may of got cuckolded hard boyo. Your wife's a snake.


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## Evinrude58

jdr8 said:


> Dan doesn't have any kids, so it better ****ing not be. None of our friends have kids yet so I don't have anything to compare his behaviour to. He came over a lot more often after our child was born, it lessened over time after the first year.


What's a grown man suddenly coming over more often to hold babies for?
Sorry, I'm not into holding other people's babies

That is REALLY suspicious for him to suddenly start coming over when you had a baby.

I second the advice on getting your baby paternity tested. What you describe sounds ver, very odd, and therefore very suspicious.


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## LosingHim

My ex husbands best friend came over daily when I had my oldest daughter, for almost the first full year. There was 0.0% chance he was my daughters father considering I've never slept with him in my life. But hed come right in the door, pick my daughter up, and sit down. Sometimes he'd fall asleep with her on his chest. He is in almost every picture of her for the first year of her life. 

Some men just love babies.


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## Lostinthought61

I know you don't trust polygraphs, but maybe your wife isn't most people will break down and tell the truth in the parking lot before they take the test...just a thought


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## doconiram

LosingHim said:


> My ex husbands best friend came over daily when I had my oldest daughter, for almost the first full year. There was 0.0% chance he was my daughters father considering I've never slept with him in my life. But hed come right in the door, pick my daughter up, and sit down. Sometimes he'd fall asleep with her on his chest. He is in almost every picture of her for the first year of her life.
> 
> Some men just love babies.


I'm sure some probably do, but I can't think of one off the top of my head who just love babies in general and would go over to a buddies house frequently just to hold a baby. Your example is the first I know, but am sure there are others. 

Dan was never a friend to the marriage and his statements that OP would come around seem very strange. He thinks it is OK for him to be banging your wife. What an A$$hole.

OP, keep in mind, you said she knows that you have her passwords, etc. She could have left the messages she wanted you to see.

The confession was likely triggered by being so stupid in a public setting with so many of your "friends" as witnesses. This doesn't fit well with her being shy and her first time down this path.

His interest in your baby... I was certainly interested in mine, but not so much others.

Get a paternity test done. It is cheap, painless and private. You can buy them at most chain pharmacies or order online, check out a quick Google search.

Her shifting story seems normal as the vast majority of cheaters are also liars. I seriously doubt you are getting the whole truth now.

You need to also seriously evaluate your "friends". Even those who were plastered would have heard about this and none of them told you? 

Perhaps you should try asking your friends how long it has been going on? Although you know they have no issue covering for your wife... and other dudes she is boning.

Best suggestion, if you really want the truth. Polygraph, ASAP. Follow through with it. You have a good chance of a parking lot confession and absolutely DNA test "your" child.

Money well spent for peace of mind. Depending on your personality, this may also help you make decisions once you have the truth.

Best wishes.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Her anxiety would make a poly useless. 

I had male friends over to hold the baby a lot too. If he was bad mouthing op while there he may have been trying to get with the wife. 

Looking back I can see my "safe" male friend doing the same. 

Subtle, but there "I'd never just ignore my wife at a party like he does" or "Is he always like this when he drinks, does that bother you"

Looking back I was stupid to not see the signs that he wasn't being friendly, just wanted in my pants. There were points where I remember thinking "wow, he's such a nice guy. I wish my h was more like him" But my safe guy had other qualities that kept me turned off from him 100%. 

I still seriously doubt they were having a long term affair. She needs to go back to therapy. Divorce sounds like the best solution for everyone here.


----------



## doconiram

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *Her anxiety would make a poly useless. *
> 
> I had male friends over to hold the baby a lot too. If he was bad mouthing op while there he may have been trying to get with the wife.
> 
> Looking back I can see my "safe" male friend doing the same.
> 
> Subtle, but there "I'd never just ignore my wife at a party like he does" or "Is he always like this when he drinks, does that bother you"
> 
> Looking back I was stupid to not see the signs that he wasn't being friendly, just wanted in my pants. There were points where I remember thinking "wow, he's such a nice guy. I wish my h was more like him" But my safe guy had other qualities that kept me turned off from him 100%.
> 
> I still seriously doubt they were having a long term affair. She needs to go back to therapy. Divorce sounds like the best solution for everyone here.


I absolutely disagree regarding the polygraph. A polygraph is a consequence of the affair and ongoing lies. It demonstrates that OP is willing to the extra mile to get the truth.

Her anxiety may also lead to a parking lot confession if she is worried about the outcome.

Polygraphs are not perfect, but in cases like this, probably the best shot at getting the truth.

I do agree that divorce is likely the best path forward in this case.

She can barely lay next to you in her underwear, yet she can do so with Dan with others watching. Also, no condom while she is trying to get pregnant. Sorry, this doesn't add up to her first time. She definitely has been wanting Danny boy for a long time.

OP- this happened because she wanted it to.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

She's on meds and has extreme anxiety, they wouldn't even do a poly because they can't get proper results. Any poly tech worth their money would ask about medication and mental illness prior to doing the test. She wouldn't qualify.


----------



## Chaparral

ButtPunch said:


> HE went to work
> 
> and off goes her shirt.
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> I'm not buying it.
> 
> Yes there are worse degrees of cheating.
> 
> She may not be the typical narcissist we see here.
> 
> However, the pain is the same for the OP.


In front of eight other people...........rrrriiiiiiiiiight! In the living room.......with no attempt to hide it!!!!!
BS


----------



## ButtPunch

OP

Your wife is broken.

She has given you an out.

Take it.

She's someone else's problem now.

When someone shows you who they are
You best believe them the first time.


----------



## Tobyboy

LosingHim said:


> My ex husbands best friend came over daily when I had my oldest daughter, for almost the first full year. There was 0.0% chance he was my daughters father considering I've never slept with him in my life. But hed come right in the door, pick my daughter up, and sit down. Sometimes he'd fall asleep with her on his chest. He is in almost every picture of her for the first year of her life.
> 
> Some men just love babies.


Geez LH.....


----------



## doconiram

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She's on meds and has extreme anxiety, they wouldn't even do a poly because they can't get proper results. Any poly tech worth their money would ask about medication and mental illness prior to doing the test. She wouldn't qualify.



The following is copied from a quick search for medications that interfere with a polygraph.

The New England Journal of Medicine states that lie detector or polygraph tests record the changes in the autonomic nervous system, such as blood pressure, pulse, breathing patterns and perspiration, that occur when the test subject is lying.

Hypertension Medications
Blood pressure medications affect lie detector tests more than any other drug. They lower blood pressure, thus inhibiting changes in blood pressure that would normally occur when the subject is lying.

Benzodiazepines
Benzodiazepines, sedatives used to treat anxiety, are oftentimes taken in an effort to "beat" a lie detector test. However, an examiner can usually detect these drugs in the pretest phase.

I saw mention of escitalopram as the medication she takes. That one is not a blood pressure medication or a benzodiazepine. 

Additionally, you are ignoring the parking lot confession potential. In this case, that outcome is certainly a possibility.


----------



## *Deidre*

I would just take time to process everything, but her story is missing so much and that it keeps changing, is telling. I think your wife has some serious issues that only she can resolve in therapy, you can't fix your wife. Forgiving your wife though, is essential, but that doesn't mean you need to stay. I say that cheating would be a deal breaker for me, but I would forgive. Forgiveness sets you free, but the deal breaking part is that to me, the marriage would be over. I think that trust is key in any relationship, and this sounds like you'd always wonder if Dan is lurking in the shadows, at the very least, in the shadows of her mind. But, she should get some counseling independent of what happens with the marriage.

As you should, just to vent to an objective person. 

I don't get the sense that Dan and your wife were having this ongoing affair, but I do believe there was an attraction there for a while, and she admits that. Your wife admits a lot, which is helpful and a positive sign, but it comes down to trust. Has she broken your trust forever? Has she ruined your idea of who she is, and would that be hard to go back to? 

No one should expect you to make a decision right away, nor should anyone expect you to stay with your wife. She violated your trust, regardless of how it all went down, and so now you are left with can you see yourself working on a better marriage? I don't know.

When it comes to Dan, he is not a friend and I'd ban all these ''friends'' from your life. A friend would NEVER EVER EVER EVER bang your wife, EVER. I don't care if she stripped and gave him a lap dance. I don't care if he was drunk, either. He should have never tried to seduce your wife, which that sounds like what happened. She was drinking and into Dan enough, that it all happened. The seduction though sounds like it had been building up, and both were drunk, and took the opportunity. 

Her shyness and historic behavior doesn't change that for me, but she seems fragile, and needs therapy. Not for you or the marriage, but for herself. And now she has to figure out why she did this. Why she slept with Dan and has a hard time sleeping with you, etc. Those are real issues, and being drunk doesn't change that either. So, there's a lot to the story that isn't just about that one night. That one night causes you OP, to question a lot in your marriage leading up to that one night. That's the problem, too I think?

These are just my opinions, but it's your choice ultimately, and hopefully, you just take your time and don't rush. I wouldn't talk to her for a bit, just clear your mind. 

Wish you the best as you sort it out.


----------



## Graywolf2

jdr8 said:


> who took 2 years to have sex with me, who took over a year to kiss me or let me touch her.
> 
> Even though we've been trying for another baby she hates when I come in her, yet he gets to do it?
> 
> She will barely sleep in her underwear with ME, but will do it with him?
> 
> who moved across the country as soon as she could, to **** a friend of mine while the rest could get popcorn and watch.


She obviously has the hots for Dan and not you. Dan is desperate for you to work it out with your wife because: 1. He doesn’t want to put up with her full time 2. He doesn’t want to feel guilty about ending your marriage. 

If you take her back it’s “no harm, no foul” for Dan.

_no harm, no foul: used to indicate that a mistake or instance of misconduct should be excused because it has not caused damage._

I know that I couldn’t ever get over the above. If you don’t think you can then do both yourself and your wife a favor and divorce her now.


----------



## *Deidre*

And, I almost forgot OP, I don't see you as to blame for what happened here. I think your marriage had issues before your wife did this. Just my opinion, but I think you thought your wife wouldn't drink, and therefore would be sober, and would either socialize a little, talk with Dan a little, and then go to bed. You trust these friends, it's not like you dropped her off at a camp ground and only men were there and they were all strangers. So, to me, I don't see you as to blame for what happened, unless we want to blame someone for having too much faith in their friends. (and spouse)


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

He told his wife to drink. 

He didn't think she would do something bad when she was drunk but he didn't think she wouldn't drink because he specifically told her to after her first night hiding. 

His wife has a severe mental illness. She needs to go back to therapy and deal with herself right now. He needs to worry about himself and his own healing


----------



## doconiram

*Deidre* said:


> I
> Her shyness and historic behavior doesn't change that for me, but she seems fragile, and needs therapy. Not for you or the marriage, but for herself. And now she has to figure out why she did this. *Why she slept with Dan and has a hard time sleeping with you,* etc. Those are real issues, and being drunk doesn't change that either. So, there's a lot to the story that isn't just about that one night. That one night causes you OP, to question a lot in your marriage leading up to that one night. That's the problem, too I think?
> 
> .


This is an interesting question OP. Obviously she wants to have sex with Dan and based on how she responds to you, she doesn't want to have sex with you.


----------



## Graywolf2

Given the history your kid is almost certainly yours but I would DNA test them anyway. It's easy and inexpensive. A little effort now will put your mind at 100% rest forever. No one even has to know. Your kid is so young that they will not know what you're doing.

You can buy a kit at about any drug store or Amazon. You just swab the inside of your cheek and the kid's and send it to a lab.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Jdr, something you said about her past got me thinking....and something she needs do address in therapy....your comment about her being gang raped at 14, and perhaps suppressing it, got me thinking about how she was a lone with the 9 friends....I wonder and this is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if at some deep level, something triggered in her and felt it was her fault that she was raped then and was reliving that feeling when the were partying...why she was dancing in her bra, why she had sex with Dan....and of course why him and not another...something to address in therapy....but I still believe she continues to be lying.


----------



## *Deidre*

It ends up being though between you and your wife, and how you see yourself proceeding. None of us can judge what your next steps ''should'' be. I think your wife OP, has a lot of issues that are deep and she needs to sort them out, and sometimes when bad things happen, it can bring to light the need to figure things out, and get the help people need. But, you can't ''fix'' her past, but the one thing that I would say to not do, is think of her as a calculating ''sl*t''...I don't get that from the story, personally. I think if you spend too much time analyzing the night, and ''how could she do this, she's a...'' I think you will cause yourself to not heal. 

It's hard, you're filled with emotions right now, and I get that, but your wife made a bad decision. That one bad decision isn't who she is, but some bad decisions can cause us to see people differently. 

That's my only advice, and I just think you should cut contact with her and just try to process for a while. She has to work through her issues too. The whole situation sucks, but just take one day at a time.


----------



## *Deidre*

dupe post


----------



## farsidejunky

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He told his wife to drink.
> 
> He didn't think she would do something bad when she was drunk but he didn't think she wouldn't drink because he specifically told her to after her first night hiding.
> 
> His wife has a severe mental illness. She needs to go back to therapy and deal with herself right now. He needs to worry about himself and his own healing


SGC:

Your commentary on this post is through the prism of a D/S dynamic.

As submissive as the OP's wife may appear be, they do not share that dynamic. As such, to assign the additional responsibility a dom typically holds in a relationship (which is what you have been doing from the start of this thread) doesn't hold water. It is also clear the OP is not interested in being a dom.

In an acknowledged D/S relationship, I would whole heartedly support your assertions. In this situation, I simply cannot. 

Even if he instructed her to hang out with his friends and not hide in their room, she was not obligated to do so.

Even if he instructed her explicitly to drink eight drinks, she was in no way obligated to do so. 

Even if he instructed her to sleep with Dan, she was in no way obligated to do so.

She is responsible for her own actions. She has agency. She is a grown woman. She should be treated as such.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

That post has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a sub. 

I was responding to "he didn't think she would drink" 

He asked her, he knew she was going to drink. 

He clearly thought she could behave as a good wife even though she drank but he did not "think she wouldn't drink" 

She told him she didn't want to be the weird one hiding in her room so he told her to go and have a few drinks with them. 

Yes she could have, and should have, refused


----------



## Evinrude58

You said she hates it when you come in her, a to lay next to you with nothing on. That says a lot about how she feels about you.

You are correct to see the dissonance between her laying around with a bra and jeans and screwing dan, and her not wanting PIV sex with you. 

She is on medication. She poops and pees is the bedroom and won't come out sometimes. People think she's weird.
She gets caught by your "friends" banging a dude on the couch.,.. 

I agree with what someone said about waking up in an hour and seeing Netflix still on. I know without a doubt that really drunk people won't "wake up in an hour". They sleep for hours.

There's no way i wouldn't give a paternity test and polygraph.

However, what she's admitted to is hard to swallow. I wouldn't consider staying married to her unless I had a polygraph confirm some things.

You've not found a burner phone or texts or messages between them. So, maybe this was just a huge error in judgement.

Thing is, she's acting (the sex stuff) toward you like a woman who is cheating (not wanting piv sex). Not wanting to be alone with you in bed naked.

Something is up with this woman. She's either having an affair or just going crazy.


----------



## *Deidre*

Yea, I meant more than he probably didn't think she'd get so drunk she'd strip down and sleep with his close friend. He also didn't think his friend would seduce his wife. I don't think betrayed spouses should be treated like they set up the cheater to cheat. I agree with farsidejunky's response.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

farsidejunky said:


> SGC:
> 
> Your commentary on this post is through the prism of a D/S dynamic.
> 
> As submissive as the OP's wife may appear be, they do not share that dynamic. As such, to assign the additional responsibility a dom typically holds in a relationship (which is what you have been doing from the start of this thread) doesn't hold water. It is also clear the OP is not interested in being a dom.
> 
> In an acknowledged D/S relationship, I would whole heartedly support your assertions. In this situation, I simply cannot.
> 
> Even if he instructed her to hang out with his friends and not hide in their room, she was not obligated to do so.
> 
> Even if he instructed her explicitly to drink eight drinks, she was in no way obligated to do so.
> 
> Even if he instructed her to sleep with Dan, she was in no way obligated to do so.
> 
> She is responsible for her own actions. She has agency. She is a grown woman. She should be treated as such.


 Farside, this is very astute, and flew right over my head until your post, even knowing some of SGC's background. From SGC's response it's clear she doesn't realize she responds from that mindset. 
That being said , SGC : How can you post "If my boyfriend did ____, I'd be out the door" so many times if: 1) you are a sub, as stated and 2) You truly believe that the man should be in charge. ???


----------



## Roselyn

jdr8 said:


> I suspect a marriage counsellor would just tell me to get over it or come up with some "psychological" reason why it all happened and needs to be swept under the rug. For all I know she has been ****ing other men for a long time and is just a great actor or I'm the dumbest thing to land on the planet.
> 
> When we first got together every single one of my friends told me not to date her because she was weird (wouldn't talk to them, avoided them, hid from them, wouldn't let me touch her, sexless, etc). A night that I got totally wasted I told them all that she was gang raped and too many privileged details and again they all said to dump her. She was broken. It wasn't worth it. To find someone normal. I should have listened.


OP, what made you decide to marry her? You know she was broken before you married her. Did you think that you can fix her? I believe that she hid from your friends as her true self would come out and she was afraid of that. Then she came out the night she engaged Dan. She is not going to change. 

If you feel that a marriage counselor cannot help you, at least see a pychologist for yourself. You can assess your situation & then decide from there. I personally could not stay with a man who is broken as I am a career woman and in my responsible position for 27 years. I could not focus on my job and worry about my spouse, behaving crazy. I am not a counselor and I would be broken also if I pursue a road such as yours.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Rubix Cubed said:


> Farside, this is very astute, and flew right over my head until your post, even knowing some of SGC's background. From SGC's response it's clear she doesn't realize she responds from that mindset.
> That being said , SGC : How can you post "If my boyfriend did ____, I'd be out the door" so many times if: 1) you are a sub, as stated and 2) You truly believe that the man should be in charge. ???


A- I don't believe the "man should be in charge" I allow my man to be Dominant to me. 

B- I can leave my bf and say no whenever I want to. He is in charge, because I allow him to be. If I wanted to leave, if he no longer met my needs, if he needed me to do something I refused to do, I'd just go. 
Sub doesn't mean no ability to say no or leave. 

The only areas that my relationship type matter in a situation like this is that he is more careful to look out for me as a protective type. If I was uncomfortable he would take me out of the situation. He is in charge there. To keep me safe. 

Even if he told me to stay and told me to drink I would not because I am ultimately responsible for me and my actions. She should have refused, as I said. She should have just left Imo

But I also think he shouldn't have asked her to in the first place. Both weren't a good choice for the situation. But since no one is allowed to point out where he went wrong without it making the WW a victim and just blindly siding with a woman, it doesn't matter what I think about what he should have done differently.


----------



## Chaparral

jdr8 said:


> My wife has been staying with my parents. Her family lives across the country and my parents will take in anyone off the street. She could murder me and they’d take her in.
> 
> She is taking escitalopram, which yes says no alcohol but that does not make someone cheat. Blaming cheating on a medication is no better than blaming in on alcohol.
> 
> My wife gave me a whole story today about how she had never before had sex with him, kissed him or even touched him. How they never previously texted and she still doesn’t have his number. How he has shown no interest in her since he pulled out. How they have only talked after the affair about me, via Facebook. How she has been attracted to him for a few years all because he held our child as a newborn. How he said things that increased the attraction towards him and lessened it towards me. And the kicker of “it just happened” and she was curious. She hasn’t tried to blame the alcohol specifically, but she doesn’t need to. She cries non-stop and obviously expects me to just forgive her and let her come back home.
> 
> Yes, a friend texted me Friday night and mentioned that my wife had basically locked herself in her room without even going out to pee. My wife has had such bad anxiety in the past that she pissed and crapped in an empty container in our room, rather than walk 10 steps to the washroom in front of people. Where the hell was that anxiety that Saturday/Sunday? And yes, I called my wife and told her to loosen up and drink with my friends. She said she didn’t want to be the weird on so she drank. If she drank so much that she couldn’t help but cheat she wouldn’t be able to remember all of the details that she does. She could give me a complete time line for ****s sake. For all I know she barely drank and was sober as ****.
> 
> Those who mentioned the other husband or wife noticing her actions, they are always the drunkest of the bunch and the first to get drunk. One friend, who was my best man, I would expect to tell me if something was going on. He noticed it all and didn’t say a word. He’s also who helped the other wife cheat year ago. So ya’ll are right, the whole lot of them can shove it.
> 
> I still call BS on it all. It took her nearly 2 ****ing years to have sex with me or even be naked in front of me. But with Danny Boy she does it all on one night? No.
> 
> I feel like a dumb ass for continuing to go back and forth on what I plan to do. Early today I was confident that we should try and work it out, now I hope she rots. So why the **** can that opinion not stick in my head and be done with it.


Urinary retention and galactorrhea have been reported with other SSRIs. The estimates of the incidence of untoward sexual experience and performance may underestimate their actual incidence, partly because patients and physicians may be reluctant to discuss this issue.[R

She needs to be watched for suicidal tendencies.

Avoid drinking alcohol while taking this medicine (escitalopram tablets).
Talk with your doctor before you use other drugs and natural products that slow your actions.


----------



## *Deidre*

Sounds like she had a crush on Dan (and he on her) long before that fateful night happened. Alcohol, her anxiety, marriage problems, Dan being the guy she turns to, Dan being an opportunist, and OP not being around all created a disaster waiting to happen. And a whole lot of bad character and low class friends.


----------



## syhoybenden

*Deidre* said:


> and low class friends.



:iagree:

Ya got that right.


----------



## Chaparral

My take is no one here has ever been attracted to a friend ?

No one wakes up after an hour who is drunk? I woke up just like that and had my arm down a pair of pants and panty hose........on a first date. We both woke up at the same time and I was in shock. Fortunately she chose not to kill me. As an aside, it was not uncommon for me and my LTR to wake up in the middle of the night having sex. Yes, it was great.

You need to see a psychiatrist that can explain the inter action of drugs, alcohol, anxiety, rape, depression etc. 

I don't have any better advice but I am shocked at many of the posts and their attitudes here. 

Some one really needs to force your wife back to her therapists. There have been many suicide attempts here with quite a few successes .

Good luck and prayers for you all. Ignore the venom, it's uncalled for.


----------



## Vinnydee

I forgot to mention that "I was drunk" is the number one excuse for cheating. Seems that very few people can cheat sober or just with a few drinks in them. The second most used excuse is that they tripped and happen to fall on his penis.  No one is going to tell you that they wanted to because they were horny for that guy or that the sex was fantastic and gave them several orgasm from a penis much bigger than yours. They will say they were too drunk to feel much, never had an orgasm and was not even close to sex with you. They tell you things that will minimize what they did. I have been on both ends of that conversation and I too was drunk and the best sex I have had in my life, was described as being not enjoyable.


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## dianaelaine59

The whole problem here, and with any of the threads, is that we're only hearing from one spouse and his side. 

You NEVER can know if the other person would have a whole other story. 

To me, it's scary to advise too much here, because of that. 

JMO



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## blahfridge

dianaelaine59 said:


> The whole problem here, and with any of the threads, is that we're only hearing from one spouse and his side.
> 
> You NEVER can know if the other person would have a whole other story.
> 
> To me, it's scary to advise too much here, because of that.
> 
> JMO
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This


----------



## drifting on

Jdr8

From what I've read on your thread you have gotten some great advice in my opinion. Some of the advice you may not like, some you may, and you should take what is applicable to your situation. I would wait on making a decision about divorce, or even reconciling for that matter. Right now your mind is flooded with emotions and feelings that are fleeting. This is normal, so if you think your crazy for loving or hating your wife, remember it's normal. 

Being angry and then sad is normal too, you will go back and forth for some time. I say to wait six months, get into individual counseling and make a decision based upon strength. Get yourself somewhat healthy, let your emotions and feelings become so they aren't so fleeting and rapid. Making a knee jerk reaction decision could wind up being the worst decision. 

As for your wife, well many things are a factor in this. You have said this is behavior never demonstrated by her before. Your wife found someone other then you attractive and never once told you. She rarely drinks and is basically a hermit when friends come over. Previously suffered a traumatic event in being raped by multiple men. This may be something to look into but it's possible she suffers PTSD as well as her anxiety. 

However, what she did you thought could never happen. Your wife is in therapy, and has been for quite a few years. She is on medication that she should not be drinking while currently taking. Not an excuse, know that now, but can cause judgement to be altered more so then just being drunk. I mention this only so you know that combined with PTSD, it may cause a severe lack in judgment. This is still not an excuse, instead just a catalyst to what happened. 

Being with the same therapist for ten years, I think she should find a new therapist. If this therapist was unable to get your wife from being a hermit, I would say it's really just not working. Therapy is designed to make you feel on edge, not comfortable. In other words she feels very comfortable and therefore not getting the help she needs. 

Looking at this situation from my perspective, there are a number of reasons why this happened. First reason is she may have felt similar feelings as to when she was raped. She participates in a drinking game with nine men that has people remove clothing. Bad choice, even if you are sitting next to her. Not only does she participate but doesn't get dressed when the game ends and they watch movies. Something she should work on in therapy is did she feel that she may be raped again? So she goes along with Dan and doesn't stop him out of fear that the others may become involved. This would then ignite all those feelings of rape again so she went with it. 

Her being a hermit and not leaving a room even to utilize a toilet is alarming. She has severe feelings of paranoia. The fact she doesn't become a hermit with you not there and says she would have felt weird. But the entire marriage she would rather feel weird, except when you aren't there, and on top of that drink. Here she is trying desperately to fit in, only it backfired, and she went way past what she should have. What you need to know here is just how strong her attraction to Dan is, and it hasn't gone away either. 

The other possibility is that your wife knew exactly what she was doing. From what you describe, it isn't your wife, far from it actually. The fact she won't leave a room to urinate but then take clothing off and drink, and party with your friends, has me thinking something else. I think your wife is one way when your present and nothing like you describe when your not there. In this case she may be living a double life. Her compartmentalization would be off the charts, that's just to start with. 

I think your wife suffers from severe anxiety, in need of a real therapist, different medications, and needs to be assessed to see if she has PTSD. You don't be a hermit today and the life of the party the next day. That's just a fact. There is much more that she needs to work on in therapy then you know about. I would suggest sitting in on a few sessions staying quiet. At the last session give your observation on any progress. I doubt you will see any if you haven't in ten years though. 

Wait the six months, from there schedule a polygraph and don't tell her. Drive her to the exam, and once there tell her what you are going to have her do. Tell her she can come clean now, and that the polygraph will determine the new truth. Get her help, meaning a new therapist who can produce results in less then ten years. After the polygraph you can then decide what your course of action is. And it will be made from a position of strength and not emotion and feelings. 

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Talker67

*Deidre* said:


> So if the OP's wife drove that night after having 8 drinks...and killed someone, would some of you be like...well, she was drunk, and the OP shouldn't have left her alone?
> 
> The OP wouldn't be going to jail, his wife would be.


the reality is, nowadays, ANYONE who has seriously been drinking just has to call an uber and get whisked home in no time at all. Next morning, go with hubby to collect the abandoned car.


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## Talker67

Evinrude58 said:


> Exactly. A woman that takes her clothes off in front of groups of men....... That's not a woman of character. She is who she is.


But you are assuming that logically states she is a sl*t.

It could, just as easily, be that she is Bipolar. Or has some deep seated psychosis from the previous rape. 

The difference is between a woman of poor character, and a woman that needs some psychological help but might be a good woman still.


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## ButtPunch

Talker67 said:


> But you are assuming that logically states she is a sl*t.
> 
> It could, just as easily, be that she is Bipolar. Or has some deep seated psychosis from the previous rape.
> 
> The difference is between a woman of poor character, and a woman that needs some psychological help but might be a good woman still.


Either way that's not for the OP to fix. He can't. He needs to not ignore the massive red flags in his next relationship. He can try to salvage this mess but it will be just a bunch more riding on the pain train.


----------



## TAM2013

Talker67 said:


> The difference is between a woman of poor character, and a woman that needs some psychological help but might be a good woman still.


Same sh!t when it all boils down to it. A woman who needs psychological help is indeed a woman of poor character. 'Vulnerable' waifs are the absolute worst.


----------



## Decorum

Why did you marry her?
1. Need to be needed?
2. Desperate , hard to find girlfriends?
3. Control, a belief she would be acquiescent?
4. Feel speicial?
5. She was hard to get so she was a Prize to Win?
6. Savoir complex, do you have a caretaker personalit?
7. You feel like no one could really love you. (You really settled when you picked her)
8. You feel you cant love or keep a normal woman, especially a high value partner?
9. She was a lost wet kitten?
10. Marry the physically/emotionally challenged they will never abandon you?

In my opinion you are unusually implacable in the face of this. I am wondering why. Could it be that If someone so broken, so needy, so desperate, someone you have nurtured, betrays you it feels like a larger betrayal, and some kind of cognitively dissonant proof that you cant keep someone faithful to you?

I am not trying to make you mad, but I think in these situations it is healthy to be objective about what drives us. Can you think of some impetus for this, beyond the oh so understandable hurt that goes with betrayal?

Lastly, it is very troubling to think this may have been going on for a while. Some people have polarized thinking (black and white) regarding polygraphs, close minded, but if she is on meds, as said before that may be out.

I don't think you will try to save this. She is so broken so I would not blame you, but there are techniques to gently "coerce" the truth out of someone if you decide to reconcile. She sounds like a good candidate for them.

I am so sorry you are going through this, and I really do wish you well. 
Take care.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TAM2013 said:


> Same sh!t when it all boils down to it. A woman who needs psychological help is indeed a woman of poor character. 'Vulnerable' waifs are the absolute worst.


Really? Mental illness is not poor character. A woman can have both but mental illness on its own says nothing about character. 

She needs to deal with this with a therapist. OP just needs to move forward with his life and divorce. Neither will be productive to the other for healing.


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## VladDracul

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> A- I don't believe the "man should be in charge" I allow my man to be Dominant to me.
> He is in charge, because I allow him to be.


In other words, you run the show in that outfit.


----------



## VladDracul

Talker67 said:


> But you are assuming that logically states she is a sl*t.
> 
> It could, just as easily, be that she is Bipolar. Or has some deep seated psychosis from the previous rape.
> 
> The difference is between a woman of poor character, and a woman that needs some psychological help but might be a good woman still.


I've known several people who are bipolar. I ain't a disorder that makes you an ice burg to your spouse but have hot coals in your britches for other people. I'm surprised we haven't heard, " In my alcoholic stupor, I dreamed I was riding a bull at the Calgary Stampede and when I woke up, I was sitting on top of Dan."


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

VladDracul said:


> In other words, you run the show in that outfit.


It's difficult to explain and would be a thread jack.


----------



## VladDracul

I really, really understand women SGC; what they say and what they really mean. You don't have to explain it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

VladDracul said:


> I really, really understand women SGC; what they say and what they really mean. You don't have to explain it.


I doubt that.


----------



## dianaelaine59

In a Dom/sub relationship, the dominant partner has no control over the sub unless the sub allows them to.

With earned trust, the sub "submits" themselves to their partner. 

A sub can walk away at any time. The Dom has then lost control of that person. The sub takes back their submission. 

When love is involved, it becomes harder to walk away. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Louise McCann

I don't know why many here keep harping on the fact that she is on medication like she is severely mentally ill. Mental illness does not directly result in poor character. She is mostly neurotic and not psychotic. Neurotics are often very self-aware and in touch with reality. Also, Escitalopram is rather mild and long acting. It is mostly prescribed for depression and MILD anxiety. SSRIs are just about the safest of any anti-depressant. There may be interactions and side effects with alcohol, but it is no Benzo.

I agree that she may be living a double life. That or has seriously been repressing her true self which wouldn't be surprising given her crippling anxiety. 

Do make sure she goes through intensive therapy for your children's sake. You were right in that you should have listened to your loved ones when they expressed concerns and brought up red flags. Lesson learnt. Let her go - you 2 need to be apart, for now at least. She needs to go work on her issues. 

Personally, I don't think it's worth it as there seem to be many discrepancies in her story & cmon, she let some guy come inside her but not her husband? That really is sickening. Also she made a fool out of you in front of your friends, the sheer disregard for you. Unless she's fully honest, remorseful, compliant and desperate to make things right with you by doing all the necessary work, and you yourself are okay with it, it's best you let her go. Idk though, the fact that she still contacted Dan after that incident suggest a complete lack of remorse. She just doesn't sound like a woman with morals.


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## Evinrude58

If she has a mental illness which results in having sex w other men, divorcing is probably best.

She doesn't want for him to have sex with her but allows other men. Yeah, that's pretty psycho, character or illness either way.

I'd file and wait a few months and see how I felt. Then do a polygraph if I thought it was worth trying to reconcile. It would be different if onetime drunken sex to me than a long term affair. Either one hard to swallow.

She cheated.
She doesn't want to be naked or have sex with him.
She's on medication for mental problems already.

There's not a lot to want to reconcile for w this woman. If she's a good mother and good companion, etc? Well, OP hasn't mentioned a lot of great qualities about her.

She messed up. But worse, she clearly is messed up. Get better? Doubtful.


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## Chuck71

Set the D rolling..... like yesterday. Lose your "friends." And keep digging.... you're not getting

the whole truth. Run a DNA test on child, being her smitten-ness for Dannyo goes back a good while.

You're angry, I get that. Ice cold with you but heats up for others. That alone should solidify your

rationale for walking away. You can still love her but could you trust her? You must have both

or it is a road of utter misery. If your trust in her is gone, there's your answer.

I apologize your thread has been bounced "all over here, hell and half of Georgia" ..... makes

it hard to reply to each post individually. 

Was cheating a deal breaker for you? If so.... there lies your answer.

Was trust (lost) a deal breaker for you? If so.... there lies your answer.

If you have to watch your spouse 24 / 7 to make sure they are not cheating.... you picked the wrong

spouse. And if it is the H doing the 24 / 7 surveillance.... you're just a couple months away from

being labeled a control freak. Work on yourself.... pick new friends, learn about boundaries. 

Maybe..... maybe.... years down the road you and her can talk, see what, if anything, is there.

But that's after both do a great deal of looking within. Too bad you don't have access to her phone 

records..... you could confront Dan and tell him she IS pregnant. Be curious to see their chats then.


----------



## drifting on

Jdr8

I really think you need to look into her current therapist and PTSD. If her anxiety is so bad to not come out of a room to urinate is very deep seeded. Think hard about that for a moment, she then places her urine or feces on the bedside table because friends are there? But then has no qualms whatsoever about sitting in partial undress in front of probably the very same friends? What do you think her therapist would say to this? What do you yourself say about this?

Let's just suppose you get over her cheating, her and Dan bad mouthing you. Let's suppose you accept the reality that your wife cheated and you can move forward. Can you with the information she has provided you? Can you if she says next year that it just wasn't once but twice that night and the following morning? Your answer is most likely no. So do yourself a favor, schedule a polygraph, tell her when you pull into the exam parking lot. Tell her why you are there. Tell her this is her last chance to save anything. 

No matter what she tells you, she takes the polygraph. From there you can make a more educated decision, you can then know if this is something you can move forward from. Whatever your decision is, no I can't move forward or no I can move forward, you can still take your time to think about it. 

As for mental illness, I'm not a believer that this is why she cheated. As odd as this sounds, I think she cheated for two reasons, fear, and she and Dan are much closer then you think.


----------



## drifting on

Also, dump every one of those so called friends.


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## TDSC60

In your first post you said that sex with you was painful to her. How does she explain having sex with Dan? Or is it just painful with you and not painful with Dan?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Even if he told me to stay and told me to drink I would not because *I am ultimately responsible for me and my actions*. She should have refused, as I said.


This is all I've been stating the whole time.



I may have misunderstood this:


> And I agree that "Your number one job in life is to protect your family." That is how I feel as well.


 to mean the man takes charge, so I digress.


----------



## Evinrude58

Lots of conflicting stuff here:

She's shy/ she took off her shirt in front of 9 guys.
She's reclusive/ she doesn't mind screwing on the couch in the living room with like 5 couples in the house, or walking around in a bra after the "game" is over.
She never drinks/ she gets wasted the one time her husband is gone.
She's trying to get pregnant/ she hates it when her husband ejaculates in her.
She hates painful penises/ she has sex with her husband's friend.
She doesn't want to come out of her room/ she comes out and plays drinking games.

Someone mentioned her mental illness is "mild". Well where I'm from, peeing and pooing in the bedroom because you're too anxious to come out is pretty far over on the spectrum.

This is a strange story. If she's crazy, The OP should divorce her-- I think that's a legal reason for divorce in most states. If she's not crazy, she's just a plain old opportunistic cheater. If the opportunity to cheat with someone she's attracted to never comes up again, OP may be in good shape if he reconciles. 

Then again, with the way she vacillates, she may abhor the thought of cheating one day, then jump the pool guy the next.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Rubix Cubed said:


> This is all I've been stating the whole time.
> 
> 
> 
> I may have misunderstood this:
> 
> 
> to mean the man takes charge, so I digress.


1- As have I. I have continued to say over and over that she is responsible. I *also* see where he went wrong. 
Some people just can't understand that it can be both. 
Some people just can't see a BHs wrongs. They can more often see a BWs wrongs (you didn't sleep with him much, you didn't think he'd go sleep with someone else?!) but when it comes to BH there is really nothing you can point out that makes the BH responsible for their own actions leading up to things. It is what it is. Interestingly a few of the ones who are typically strongly anti-WW saw the same thing in his responsiblity in the events. 

2-I do think a man should protect his family. His wife and children. That's different than being in charge. 

Part of my bf being in charge is keeping me safe. Part, not all. There's a lot more to why and how he's in charge and I don't think men in general should be in charge and there are plenty who have no business even trying.


----------



## scaredlion

Okay, go ahead and kick her to the curb and divorce her. Yes, she did something no wife or husband should ever do to their spouse. It was the worst thing one spouse can do to another. I know this. But as you walk away don't even come close to thinking that it is all on her, because in my opinion, you set the whole thing in motion. You were married to her for how long? You knew her anxieties, her fears, her apprehensive nature, her not wanting to be around a lot of people, and a score of other fears. And still you walked away and left her with 9 men in a situation where heavy drinking was involved. By your own description, your wife is not a strong person and is very likely to be highly susceptible to outside influence. And you still left her at a drinking party with 9 men knowing her nature. My wife is a very strong woman and has shown that strength many times, but I wouldn't think of leaving her at a drinking party with 9 men. Marriage problems are seen as 50% fault of each spouse. Cheating is seen as always 100% the cheater's responsibility. But in this case I see what happened as much your fault as hers. As I said before, you put the bullet in the gun, cocked the hammer and walked away and now you want to kick her out because she was highly influenced when you left her to pull the trigger. You also have a bad record in choosing friends. Everyone is coming up with scenarios of what they think happened. How about this one. Maybe your friends, who by your own admission never liked her anyway, conspired to have this happen so they could say, "See, we told you about her." Sounds as good as some of the others I've read. Your wife needs help, not being kicked out. And if you truly loved her you would be willing to give her that help even if you do divorce her. As I've said, I'm older than most of you and in my day there would be one "friend" that would get one good ass whopping. Now everyone can start throwing 2X4's at me but as my wife has said many times to me, "That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it." I do wish you well.


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## Pkitty111

So maybe it is just me, but I am not on this dump her bad wagon. From what I have read other than this one time, she has been trustworthy, and loving. If it were me I would not leave her, and break up a family for what was a mistake. Of course everyone on here is saying leave her. It is so easy for other people to be like leave, and judge someone who they dont even know. If your family is telling you that giving her a second chance is a big deal then I would take their advice because 1. they know you 2. they know her, and 3. they know the both of you as a couple. For me cheating isnt the worst thing a person can do, when it comes down to it we are all human, and we all make mistakes. I think honestly what is hardest for human beings is overcoming our ego, and what has been instilled in us since we were young that when a person hurts you to give up on them, but in away AT LEAST THE WAY I SEE IT, its running away. Fear of getting hurt again is terrifying, but for me running is even more scary. So what I am trying to say is maybe kicking her out and changing the locks was a bit like running away, especially because all of your friends know. God forbid they see you forgive her how will that make you look right? Again Ego. You honestly have all the answer you need inside of you listen to that little voice in the back of your head trying to guide you to the right decision, follow your gut. If you feel leaving your wife is what you need to do then that is your decision. But make sure you are making the decision for you and what is best for your life. Remember the decisions we make in our life shape out the rest of our life.


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## Evinrude58

She betrayed him in the worst possible way a wife could betray her husband..... that's for certain. 
She brought him immense shame. I'm sure his "ego" is crushed.

You must have never been cheated on.
If you had, you'd know it's not his ego or whatever that makes him walk, it's the fact that he will never trust her again.

She was trustworthy "until".

Everyone on the planet is trustworthy, until they're not. She isn't trustworthy. She walked around without a shirt for half the evening, and then screwed her husband's friend on the couch.
She chose to do this. She could have broke this chain of events many times throughout the night. 

Does she regret her choice? Probably...
Will she do it again? That's one question.

Does OP feel he can be happy with her again?
Only he will know that.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

My reason for saying leave is that he will use it against her. He will call her names and question her past rape and make fun of her. He will always bring up Dan. Anytime she doesn't want sex or she has a drink or something triggers him, he will bring up how much of a sl*t she was with Dan. 

I can't blame him for this reaction but I don't think it's a healthy one for R either. 

Very rarely can a couple R successfully because of the anger that lasts years and what is needed from the BS to accept. 

I couldn't do it as a BS or a WS. Living with that anger just isn't healthy. His best chance at healing himself is to move forward and detach. Being with her will keep triggering him and bringing back his anger


----------



## doconiram

Evinrude58 said:


> You said she hates it when you come in her, a to lay next to you with nothing on. That says a lot about how she feels about you.
> 
> You are correct to see the dissonance between her laying around with a bra and jeans and screwing dan, and her not wanting PIV sex with you.
> 
> She is on medication. She poops and pees is the bedroom and won't come out sometimes. People think she's weird.
> She gets caught by your "friends" banging a dude on the couch.,..
> 
> I agree with what someone said about waking up in an hour and seeing Netflix still on. I know without a doubt that really drunk people won't "wake up in an hour". They sleep for hours.
> 
> There's no way i wouldn't give a paternity test and polygraph.
> 
> However, what she's admitted to is hard to swallow. I wouldn't consider staying married to her unless I had a polygraph confirm some things.
> 
> You've not found a burner phone or texts or messages between them. So, maybe this was just a huge error in judgement.
> 
> *Thing is, she's acting (the sex stuff) toward you like a woman who is cheating (not wanting piv sex). Not wanting to be alone with you in bed naked.
> 
> Something is up with this woman. * She's either having an affair or just going crazy.


It could be that she doesn't want to cheat on Dan by having relations with her husband. It would certainly explain a lot.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

If she was already sleeping with Dan she wouldn't not have made a fuss about having to stay there alone or stayed locked in her room the whole first night. 
I think the "she was already sleeping with him" is just a ridiculous theory.


----------



## sokillme

She doesn't seem emotionally healthy enough to be in a marriage in my opinion.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

jdr8 said:


> Even though we've been trying for another baby she hates when I come in her, yet he gets to do it?


This is something I couldn't get over either. You're repulsive to her somehow, but Dan is not? Why is she married to you? Financial security? 

Hope you end up happy with whatever decision you make in the end.


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## VladDracul

Evinrude58 said:


> This is a strange story.


Yes it is. A little like Dr. Jekyll and Edward Hyde with the potion being alcohol.


----------



## sokillme

Evinrude58 said:


> If she has a mental illness which results in having sex w other men, divorcing is probably best.
> 
> She doesn't want for him to have sex with her but allows other men. Yeah, that's pretty psycho, character or illness either way.
> 
> I'd file and wait a few months and see how I felt. Then do a polygraph if I thought it was worth trying to reconcile. It would be different if onetime drunken sex to me than a long term affair. Either one hard to swallow.
> 
> She cheated.
> She doesn't want to be naked or have sex with him.
> She's on medication for mental problems already.
> 
> There's not a lot to want to reconcile for w this woman. If she's a good mother and good companion, etc? Well, OP hasn't mentioned a lot of great qualities about her.
> 
> She messed up. But worse, she clearly is messed up. Get better? Doubtful.


I agree, OP marriage doesn't have to be this hard. It shouldn't be. Just call it a day.


----------



## sokillme

Evinrude58 said:


> This is a strange story.


Pushes all the buttons thought doesn't it.


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## nekonamida

Jdr8,

I think you're doing the right thing by pursuing a divorce. Personally, I could get over this level of betrayal if she was telling the truth about it being a ONS and she didn't basically fall in love with the guy over the years and hide it from me. But given that she took 2 years to be comfortable getting intimate and naked with you and yet she was fine with it on the first night with him, that would kill any chance of reconciliation for me. I have followed a couple of infidelity focused support groups for a few years now and any situation in which the wayward gave something special to the AP is very difficult for a BS to recover from. They pretty much always wonder why AP was deserving of what was given and why they weren't good enough. It's even worse if their WS refuses to give whatever it was to them again like certain romantic acts or certain kinds of sex. It will haunt you if you stay.

For now, stay the course. Pursue further investigative techniques like a DNA test and a polygraph only if you feel like it's helpful. Only speak to your WW about your kid and finances. Work on detaching and moving on to finding someone healthier and with less baggage.


----------



## GusPolinski

OP's latest post (the last one that I read, anyway) makes his WW's infidelity seem less like something that she just "fell into" as a result of poor decision-making and something slightly more pre-meditated, IMO.

Suddenly the idea that a) this wasn't her first rodeo and b) she confessed to it because she suspected she might be pregnant with OM's child seems at least a bit more likely.


----------



## VladDracul

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If she was already sleeping with Dan she wouldn't not have made a fuss about having to stay there alone or stayed locked in her room the whole first night.


How does anybody outside of maybe the trustworthy folks that were there know she stayed locked in her room, (but maybe left the door cracked) or the fuss about staying was only a ruse. How would anybody know she doesn't have the luxury of having a man she feel vulnerable to regularly at her side; one she feels worthy of her submission, one that she can let go of the "responsibility" and exhausting task of "masterbatus in vaginus" style sex, while knowing he maintains respect for her submission. Maybe she has traits of an alpha female, more like a lioness, than a sheep, who took advantage of the absence, albeit, temporary, of her mate who made it her duty for all the hunting and a warm female for his amusmement.









Tatsuhiko said:


> You're repulsive to her somehow, but Dan is not?



She's prepared for reconciliation whenever he "comes around" to accepting her indiscretion.


----------



## doconiram

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If she was already sleeping with Dan she wouldn't not have made a fuss about having to stay there alone or stayed locked in her room the whole first night.
> I think the "she was already sleeping with him" is just a ridiculous theory.


It is no more or less ridiculous than this was her first time boning Dan or some other OM. With her history, to suddenly be comfortable hanging out in her underwear and cuddling up next to DAN in front of other people?? Yeah, sure sounds like a first time event.

To much of the story makes no sense.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

doconiram said:


> It is no more or less ridiculous than this was her first time boning Dan or some other OM. With her history, to suddenly be comfortable hanging out in her underwear and cuddling up next to DAN in front of other people?? Yeah, sure sounds like a first time event.
> 
> To much of the story makes no sense.


She likely has absolute 0 self preservation and sense of self. 

Meaning in a group of strong people she will follow the crowd and be easily peer pressured into stupid crap. That was me but much younger. I had to learn my sense of self and how to stand up to it. 

I never peed in my room but I did hold it for 4 days leading to a hospital trip because my kidneys were shutting down. I get the extreme anxiety. 

During this time I got easily led into sex and drinking and drugs because I had no self confidence, no abilities to say no. I was a shy, quiet good girl who mostly talked to the animals and went to church events. In a group of loud, strong people I couldn't say no. When one of them took me off to sleep with me, I couldn't say no. When 2 of them took me off to sleep with me I couldn't say no. I wanted to so badly but couldn't. I wouldn't sleep with guys who wanted to outside of these situations but just couldn't say no in them. 

Well, I could but I didn't know how. Now I do but I am careful to not be put in positions of too much pressure or not being 100% sober. 

I was not a party girl. I was not the girl who really wanted it and was just looking for an excuse. I didn't have the tools needed to stand up for myself in groups of strong people. I'd think anyone who was nice to me liked me and I'd try to be cool and fit in but didn't know how. I was easily led by anyone. 

All of this said, I was not raped by not saying no. It was all on me and my responsibility to keep my worth despite not knowing how. It is on me. All of it.

She will need a lot of therapy to learn the tools she needs.


----------



## VladDracul

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> All of this said, I was not raped by not saying no. It was all on me and my responsibility to keep my worth despite not knowing how. It is on me. All of it.


Cut yourself some slack SGC. The way you reacted depended, to a very large measure, your perception at the time, what you were or weren't taught, the skills you had at the time, et cetera. You did the best you could with the tools you had. Looks like things turned out pretty well. 
Believe me, I could kick my own azz sometime if I consider my past activities and my then tendency to go along to get along .


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

VladDracul said:


> Cut yourself some slack SGC. The way you reacted depended, to a very large measure, your perception at the time, what you were or weren't taught, the skills you had at the time, et cetera. You did the best you could with the tools you had. Looks like things turned out pretty well.
> Believe me, I could kick my own azz sometime if I consider my past activities and my then tendency to go along to get along .


Part of my growing is holding myself accountable for my actions. I don't have shame, regret yes, and I forgive myself for them but can not let myself sit in the victim chair over it. 

Grow from the past and learn from it, and teach my kids the self confidence and tools I learned so hopefully they have them when they need them. 

I think for OPs wife to grow and learn she will need to hold herself accountable for what she did there. Know and understand her limitations and work as best she can within them so she is always in control of her actions and situation.


----------



## VibrantWings

scaredlion said:


> Okay, go ahead and kick her to the curb and divorce her. Yes, she did something no wife or husband should ever do to their spouse. It was the worst thing one spouse can do to another. I know this. But as you walk away don't even come close to thinking that it is all on her, because in my opinion, you set the whole thing in motion. You were married to her for how long? You knew her anxieties, her fears, her apprehensive nature, her not wanting to be around a lot of people, and a score of other fears. And still you walked away and left her with 9 men in a situation where heavy drinking was involved. By your own description, your wife is not a strong person and is very likely to be highly susceptible to outside influence. And you still left her at a drinking party with 9 men knowing her nature. My wife is a very strong woman and has shown that strength many times, but I wouldn't think of leaving her at a drinking party with 9 men. Marriage problems are seen as 50% fault of each spouse. Cheating is seen as always 100% the cheater's responsibility. But in this case I see what happened as much your fault as hers. As I said before, you put the bullet in the gun, cocked the hammer and walked away and now you want to kick her out because she was highly influenced when you left her to pull the trigger. You also have a bad record in choosing friends. Everyone is coming up with scenarios of what they think happened. How about this one. Maybe your friends, who by your own admission never liked her anyway, conspired to have this happen so they could say, "See, we told you about her." Sounds as good as some of the others I've read. Your wife needs help, not being kicked out. And if you truly loved her you would be willing to give her that help even if you do divorce her. As I've said, I'm older than most of you and in my day there would be one "friend" that would get one good ass whopping. Now everyone can start throwing 2X4's at me but as my wife has said many times to me, "That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it." I do wish you well.


Great post. I've been married twice, lived with a man for 5 1/2 years and have had some BF's in between them all. NONE...not a damn one, again I say NONE would have been so arrogant or stupid as to leave me alone with NINE drunk men because he was more worried about the property than me. Arrogant to think all the good buddies, who he has SEEN lie to another about infidelity, wouldn't touch the woman they consider "strange" because they all love him so much. Gawd what a tool. Don't give a **** what she said....it was just plain ignorant.

The OP CHOSE to marry a "damaged" person (someone else's description, btw). In other words, she is to be considered "special needs"....she strikes me as handicapped/disabled somehow by these past issues/PTSD/Anxiety and probably a really ****ed childhood to have ended up in the OP described situation to begin with. I have been with disabled men...it's a CHOICE. You don't get to cut loose when the going gets tough that easily. The disability does affect the relationship. 




SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My reason for saying leave is that he will use it against her. He will call her names and question her past rape and make fun of her. He will always bring up Dan. Anytime she doesn't want sex or she has a drink or something triggers him, he will bring up how much of a sl*t she was with Dan.
> 
> I can't blame him for this reaction but I don't think it's a healthy one for R either.
> 
> Very rarely can a couple R successfully because of the anger that lasts years and what is needed from the BS to accept.
> 
> I couldn't do it as a BS or a WS. Living with that anger just isn't healthy. His best chance at healing himself is to move forward and detach. Being with her will keep triggering him and bringing back his anger


I concur- my main thinking. If a life of bitterness is what's ahead, then cut a new path for the happiness of everyone involved. I suspect his wife hasn't liked him for a long time anyway...if ever. 

He needs time away, period. He's been married a while and has a kid...he doesn't need a bunch of strangers on the net telling him to divorce anybody. He knows the back and forth in his mind/heart. Jdr8 give yourself time to think and heal. You keep wanting to know what to do quickly- as in you want closure and the pain to end right now. It won't...so step away and clear your head. You will KNOW the best decision in your own time. 



doconiram said:


> It could be that she doesn't want to cheat on Dan by having relations with her husband. It would certainly explain a lot.


She doesn't find him attractive- never has. Whether it's for physical or mental reasons, she doesn't. Never met her...just my two cents...but that explains a lot, too. 



Tatsuhiko said:


> This is something I couldn't get over either. You're repulsive to her somehow, but Dan is not? Why is she married to you? Financial security?
> 
> Hope you end up happy with whatever decision you make in the end.


What I wondered...what does she get from him? Money? Does he have a good job? His parents seem to hold a lot of sway over him so do THEY have money? 
Perhaps he's the only guy willing to put up with her- could be that simple. Dan the pull out man who was "done" as soon as he pulled out could be one of those guys that prefer married women that he can send back home and not deal with later. Yeah Dan's an ******* through and through, IMO. 



Decorum said:


> Why did you marry her?
> 1. Need to be needed?
> 2. Desperate , hard to find girlfriends?
> 3. Control, a belief she would be acquiescent?
> 4. Feel speicial?
> 5. She was hard to get so she was a Prize to Win?
> 6. Savoir complex, do you have a caretaker personalit?
> 7. You feel like no one could really love you. (You really settled when you picked her)
> 8. You feel you cant love or keep a normal woman, especially a high value partner?
> 9. She was a lost wet kitten?
> 10. Marry the physically/emotionally challenged they will never abandon you?
> 
> In my opinion you are unusually implacable in the face of this. I am wondering why. Could it be that If someone so broken, so needy, so desperate, someone you have nurtured, betrays you it feels like a larger betrayal, and some kind of cognitively dissonant proof that you cant keep someone faithful to you?
> 
> I am not trying to make you mad, but I think in these situations it is healthy to be objective about what drives us. Can you think of some impetus for this, beyond the oh so understandable hurt that goes with betrayal?
> 
> Lastly, it is very troubling to think this may have been going on for a while. Some people have polarized thinking (black and white) regarding polygraphs, close minded, but if she is on meds, as said before that may be out.
> 
> I don't think you will try to save this. She is so broken so I would not blame you, but there are techniques to gently "coerce" the truth out of someone if you decide to reconcile. She sounds like a good candidate for them.
> 
> I am so sorry you are going through this, and I really do wish you well.
> Take care.


Reading the OP's description of his wife over and over....I wondered the same. WTF? Not a very loving way to describe your wife to internet strangers. What exactly has he been getting out of this relationship? Glad you listed it out because I don't have the mental energy/tenacity/stomach to think that long or deeply about it. You're spot on though, I do believe. 

Yeah, he was wronged by Driving Ms. Crazy...but he did make his own bed with her. 

In spite of my harsh words, OP, I do understand your point of view and wish you luck and happiness in your future. Live and learn.


----------



## doconiram

OP, 

Based on your history and description of your wife. You can't fix her... think about how well that has worked to this point.

Also, your home life can't possibly be a good environment to raise a child in.

Some things to consider.

Ditch your buddies. They suck and are not your friends.

Get the paternity test done ASAP. It is cheap, easy, private and painless.

Get a polygraph scheduled if you feel you need more truth from your wife.

See a lawyer and find out what your options are.

Get some IC to see why you put up with this crap.


----------



## LosingHim

Tobyboy said:


> Geez LH.....


I'm just saying, some people here see EVERYTHING as proof that someone who has cheated is lowest of the low snakes who have been cheating the entire relationship.

I gave an example of a very similar thing where a male friend came over almost daily to visit my baby.

I did miss the part where op said ww would "bad mouth" him. So yes, he probably had an ulterior motive for quite some time. But damn. Visiting a baby doesn't mean they've been banging for years! Some of y'all here are SOOOOO suspicious of EVERYTHING, I honestly wonder how you get through life being so paranoid about everything. (I'm not saying you, I'm saying in general).

OPs wife cheated. She admitted it. All this other crap about her banging Dan "for years" because he visited a baby doesn't help a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure his brain is going insane on his own. We all know the mind movies, right? I swear some people here will go as far as "wait, she LOOKED at another man 22 years ago?? OBVIOUSLY she's been a cheating skank wh*re ever since and she'll probably kill your dog in your sleep too!"


----------



## Evinrude58

LH,
Babies cry, scream, throw up, dirty diapers, have to be held perfectly, have to be quiet around them while they sleep....... 

They are not something male friends flock to and cause them to want to ccme over and hang out more. If anything, most friends come around LESS because they want the new parents to have time to spend with their new baby, and because the baby needs rest and that's when mom and dad get their rest, too.

You are likely not noticing the real reason if a man was coming around more often to "play with the baby". He was probably interested in you. 

This guy was coming around more often and using the baby as an excuse to be around OP's wife more. This is my opinion, anyway.
I could have it all wrong.
Or, alternatively my conspiracy theory is that he thought OP's baby was his. I agree, that may be a little paranoid.

But it was one of the two, maybe both.


----------



## TaDor

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That post has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a sub.
> 
> I was responding to "he didn't think she would drink"
> 
> He asked her, he knew she was going to drink.
> 
> He clearly thought she could behave as a good wife even though she drank but he did not "think she wouldn't drink"
> 
> She told him she didn't want to be the weird one hiding in her room so he told her to go and have a few drinks with them.
> 
> Yes she could have, and should have, refused


Not only that - he specifically BOUGHT her alcohol that she likes...

I agree with many of your responses, SGC. OP put his wife in this situation, does he not know how to handle a fragile person such as his wife? Is he living in a bubble world in which reality of people with mental illiness or trama can and will behave strangely?


----------



## TaDor

@jdr8

There is a lot going on and IMHO - you got a lot of good responses from others. This is my first chance to respond. 

First you said:


> I didn't leave my wife with a "pack of 9 men". I left my wife with a group of my very close friends.
> 
> However, I agree that when my friends became aware of what was happening they should have put a stop to it. Drunk or not, some were definitely aware of what was going on. Regardless of what happens to this marriage, I don't think most of those friendships can continue.


Considering the years-long issues with your wife - you did leave her with a pack of 9 men. And your friends are like you - covering for each other when one or some of them are cheating. You said it yourself "Not up to us to harm another relationship" - so it comes back to you.

You bought her drinks, you told her to go OUT and socialize with them. There is a lot going on and for many people - booze is all it takes to cheat. Look, where do people socialize, meet people? Bars and clubs - where they are serving alcohol. What does that do? It lowers inhibitions, it allows shy people to open up. I've dated/sex with lots of women - but I needed a few drinks to loosen up, otherwise - I'm a bit shy or reserved myself. Get me nicely drunk and I can say "can I have your panties?" - and I've gotten them.

Medication with and without booze can and will cause wonky things to happen. My wife took about 6~8 kinds of pills when we first met. Now she is down to 3. When doctors tried something new, sometimes things went bad. Like her going NUTS and causing the cops to come out. It took a few days for that medication to slowing make her that way. No more of that. With me working with her and see the effects, she has reduced her meds.

One of her meds, causes her to be sexual when she is asleep. This happened several times for a month or so. Yet she is 100% asleep and impossible to wake up. She stopped taking that stuff.

So as posted before and the many issues a person can have who is traumatized by sexual assault... a scared woman such as your wife, could be telling you the truth. She forced herself to drink, got drunk and broke out of her comfort zone. Ended up breaking many boundaries and your friends didn't care.

You need to backup, cool down and think about what you want to do. Or should do.
IF she is broken, then yeah - she will do things to please others. Even my wife, is /has been that way (not to the extent of yours) - but she will go-along with something she may not want to do, normally. Mine still gets scared about telling me things that may upset me.

So many people in this world have issues. So, you've been patient with her after so many years... now, you are running away? So take a break. Figure out what you can and should do. Someone like your wife CAN BE manipulated. She is somewhat child-life, no? Either help he - or cut her out and hopefully someone else will.

PS: Yeah, what she did was wrong. She told you.


----------



## Jay-nzo

jdr8 said:


> It's a classic right? Is there ever a scenario when you should look at it differently?
> 
> I'm going to try and be as objective as I can. I have already kicked my wife out of the house, changed the locks and told her I want a divorce. We have a child together so unfortunately it's not as simple as kicking her out and never seeing her again. Some people in my life are saying I shouldn't throw in the towel so easily. Those people being my parents and friends, some of who were involved in this **** fest.
> 
> So this is me trying to be objective.
> 
> My wife is not a drinker. Prior to this she had never been drunk. The farthest she'd go would be a 1-2 drinks once every couple years. In the last 10 years she has probably consumed alcohol 5 times. When my friends and I get together I've encouraged her to drink, but it wasn't her thing. She said it was stupid to drink, to each their own. My wife was raised in a home without any alcohol ever, due to alcoholic family members.
> 
> I never worried about my wife cheating. Literally never. My wife is very quiet and reserved. She doesn't like being around other people. Even though we've been together for 7 years my friends feel like they barely know her. They have barely had conversations with her. She was allegedly raped about 10 years ago by a group of men and that makes her very reserved. She isnt even comfortable hugging my friends or having them touch her (hand on her arm, around her, etc.). She takes an anti-anxiety medication. She rarely goes out (just work, gym and shopping), doesn't talk to many people, doesn't hide her phone or computer, etc. There was not a single worry about her cheating.
> 
> 3 weeks ago we were planning a weekend get-together/party at our cottage. 10 friends came up (9 men and ones wife) but I ended up being called into work. My wife and friends stayed, which was fine my wife had to stay because it's our cottage and the friends wanted to stay. They had all just driven 3-4 hours to get there. My wife expressed concern and anxiety about being there alone with 9 men, but tries to step out of her comfort zone and stayed. It was completely her choice to stay, I wasn't going to be there so it didn't effect me either way. My friends are great and I had no concerns, everyone who was there I have been close with for nearly two decades.
> 
> 4 days ago my wife told me that she slept with a very close friend of mine - of 17 years. Her story, with some collaboration from friends, is:
> 
> On Friday she didn't drink at all. On Saturday she started drinking around 8PM, and everyone played card games, board games and drinking games. She drank a lot more than she is use to (8+ drinks), because my friends were encouraging her to drink and if she wasn't a bit tipsy she would be annoyed by their drunk behaviour. She has no tolerance as she isn't a drinker, she's small (100lb, 5'2") and she didn't eat much - her story. They were playing drinking games and she was sitting next to the guy, I'll call him Dan. It was crowded so they were touching each other and the drinking game had some sexual questions. They kept drinking and there was a bit of flirting but nothing that other friends (who were all varying degrees of tipsy to hammered) thought anything of. Around 2am they all wanted to watch a movie so they pulled out the pull out bed/couch in the living room. She laid down and at some point, she doesn't remember when, he sat beside her but on the opposite end. So she was on the left and he was on the right with a lot of space in between. Someone else (friends wife) wanted to sit on the pull out so my wife moved over and was laying right against Dan, and squished between him and the other wife. They were both falling asleep and leaning against each other, confirmed by another friend of mine. Everyone eventually went to their rooms and fell asleep, my other friend said my wife and Dan were still sleeping on the couch together when he went to bed. He thought it was odd because he knows how shy she is but didn't think much of it being tired and drunk.
> 
> My wife and Dan woke up (assumingly after everyone else went to bed) and then she stops giving me as many details. She was still in her bra and jeans. He said she was sexy. They kissed. Had sex for what she claims was less than a minute. They didn't use protection (at first she said they did). He pulled out. They fell asleep together and woke up together, naked. When I asked multiple times if she enjoyed it, I got tears and no verbal answer or a snappy no. For her no answer is what you don't want to hear. She's a **** liar.
> 
> She said that she was tempted to kiss him and once it started she didn't know what to do and went along with it. She said she was too nervous to tell him to stop, I will say that she never speaks her mind around other people. But looking back, there has been some things. She has told me that Dan is the friend of mine that she feels closest too and most comfortable around. For the last 7 years she has been comfortable being home alone with him, but no other friends of mine. It has only happened a few times but it's something to note. During a drinking game they played that night a question came up that said who is the most attractive person in the room, other than yourself and your partner. And she said Dan, noted from a friend of mine. She also had a question that involved taking off some articles of clothing, which she did (sweater and top, left in bra and jeans). There were others that my friend can't remember but remembers being surprised she was playing along. I don't care about that, if it was only that. Playing a game isn't a big deal to me, sticking another **** in her is.
> 
> She isn't calling it rape, and it wasn't. She chose to be there. She didn't stop it. She didn't tell me right away. They didn't use protection. Dan's in a serious relationship. She's married. She's attracted to him and flirted with him that night prior. And prior to this I'd say that he was a really good guy. He is aware of her past (rape), most of my friends are. It really effected her/me/us in the beginning of our relationship and my friends thought she was wierd as hell.
> 
> My wife and Dan are a perfect compliment to each other. Their personalities are exactly what the other needs. The perfect levels of everything to compliment each other. ie) they are both reserved but he will take the first step and she goes along with it. He isn't out there and in your face, which she doesn't like. He's very clingy in relationships and she likes that because she is too. He's adventurous in activities and she likes to go along with that. He's into the same shows, movies and music as she is, her and I do not get along that way. Thinking about it, I can see them really getting along.
> 
> She said she will tell me whatever I want to know, wont hide anything, won't ever talk to him again, wont see him again, wont drink again. But I don't trust her and just see her sucking my friends ****. I think she is telling me what I want to hear, on some things. We have been trying to get pregnant and even though it's unlikely she's get pregnant from that night, the possibility is there. She hasn't agreed to terminate, if a pregnancy does occur. Mine or his, she should. We are in no emotional shape to have another child right now and I sure as **** won't entertain saving the marriage if she got herself knocked up by someone else.
> 
> Word of mouth is she has been talking to Dan since she ****ed him and one friend (Dan's brother) saw them naked in bed together when he went to use the washroom. Everyone knows about it now. Both my wife and Dan are being exiled. Dan said they have only talked about me and the aftermath, and have not seen each other or done anything that could be considered continued cheating. He encourages me to get back with her. Any time I try to talk to her she mostly just cries and apologizes. She said she hasn't talked to Dan. Someone is lying. She is the only likely choice.
> 
> Here's where my mind is. I have doubts that this is the only time she has cheated with him. It's very out of character for her and I can't see her going from never talking to him or having contact with him to ****ing him. The number is different now, but prior to cheating she had been intimate with 2 men including myself. She had never had a ONS or hookup, allegedly. A person doesn't go from 0-10 just like that.
> 
> Our sex life isn't the best. After we had a child 4 years ago her limbo went down the toilet. She's okay with oral generally. Even if she is extremely turned on and we've had a lot of warm up, penetration hurts her every time without fail. No matter how relaxed she is it hurts her. She says it feels like a muscle stretching. She clenches her teeth and digs her fingers into me. Based on that, she would have had plenty of time to stop what they were doing. Dan most likely would have noticed her reaction and would have stopped, unless he already was use to it because this has been going on a lot longer.
> 
> One friend (Dan's brother) saw them naked on the couch and everyone else saw them cuddling on the couch after flirting. That is a lot of witnesses and a lot of mouthes to blab. Maybe that's why she has told the "truth" now.
> 
> Dan has been a close friend of mine for 17 years. Most of our group had been close since high school. A normal, sane person doesn't just decide to sleep with his friends wife on a whim. There has to be more buildup. His long term girlfriend conveniently wasn't there with no reason why.
> 
> Call me a ****, that's ok, but my mind goes further. She avoids being around my male friends. She avoids drinking. Perhaps the actual reason is because she made a drinking mistake in the past and doesn't trust herself. She claims to have been raped 10 years ago by a group of men. She said they were arrested and charged, I've seen no physical proof of that. We never talk about it. We did in the beginning of our relationship, but it hasn't come up in years.
> 
> My wife started going to the gym about a year ago. She's in great shape and is self confident, before she wasn't. She lost around 40 pounds, which has puts her at around 100 pounds. She use to go to a woman's only gym, because she felt more comfortable there. About 4 months ago she started going to a normal gym. He reason was its significantly closer (2 minutes compared to 35), cheaper, and better equipment. It just happened to be a transition that occurred when she had reached her body goal. Dan does not go to the gym, but she could be meeting someone else there.
> 
> Our marriage has been good. We get along, we don't fight, we don't have financial problems or scheduling conflicts. Our only real stressor lately is trying to get pregnant again but its not that bad and more of a not preventing a pregnancy and see what happens. Like I said, I didn't see this coming. Neither did my family or friends. Everyone is shocked.
> 
> The actions are very out of character for her. Which is why most people are saying to either let it go or try to work on it. But does the excuse "I was drunk, I wasn't thinking" really have any merit, whether they are heavy drinkers or extremely light drinkers? I still cannot see her going from 0 contact with him to ****ing him. Even if she did, she still cheated.
> 
> Don't even get me started on all the friendships that have been obliterated. ****ing my wife is unforgivable. Seeing someone **** my wife or act as she did without telling me is getting there. Numerous relationships blown up for what? It can't have been for a ONS.
> 
> But my wife is insistent that she had never prior cheated, on anyone, and hid nothing in the past. And I'm sitting her like a dumb ass trying to let my wife use the "I was drunk" excuse.


No excuse, cheat is cheat. 
for me I never forgive my lady for sleep with anybody.
If this is a first time, there will be second


----------



## Louise McCann

When I said her mental illness is mild, I meant to say that clinically, by definition, she suffers from a neurotic disorder which means that she doesn't have delusions & is in touch with reality. Mental illness is no excuse for poor behaviour unless you are psychotic and completely unable to think rationally. She knew she was in the wrong and confessed to OP. She is a sane person, along with the fact that the doctor only prescribed her with SSRIs which is pretty much the safest of anti-depressants. While she may be emotionally messed up, she isn't crazy. She acted out on her own will & betrayed OP's trust - her actions were inexcusable and should be not be taken lightly.

In my opinion, OP had absolutely no part to play in her infidelity. So what if he left her with 9 men who were in fact close friends? She was by no means coerced or raped. I think we should be able to trust our spouses even in situations where temptation may be prevalent. For example, I should be able to trust my partner visiting Amsterdam without him paying for a hooker behind the glass or trust him to have a boys' night out without hooking up with the cute waitress.

Also I can't shake off this feeling that maybe she avoids your friends like a plague because of something that might have happened in the past? Nobody can be sure... check all your records, tap her phone, install keylogger etc; time to play detective!


----------



## Talker67

Louise McCann said:


> I don't know why many here keep harping on the fact that she is on medication like she is severely mentally ill. Mental illness does not directly result in poor character. She is mostly neurotic and not psychotic. Neurotics are often very self-aware and in touch with reality. Also, Escitalopram is rather mild and long acting. It is mostly prescribed for depression and MILD anxiety. SSRIs are just about the safest of any anti-depressant. There may be interactions and side effects with alcohol, but it is no Benzo..


well, there ARE people mentally ill enough to NOT be able to control their decisions. Severe alcoholics, for instance. SOMETIMES they can get medical help, and become "cured". Often times not.


----------



## Talker67

Louise McCann said:


> She knew she was in the wrong and confessed to OP.


Later on, after she sobered up, and realized what she had done in a moment of clarity. Does NOT mean she understood at the time, or would not do it all over again if she got that drunk again


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

She avoids his friends cause she doesn't like groups of people due to her past trauma, anxiety and introvertedness. 

Im not sure people can understand anxiety unless they have it. 

After my first child I stayed in my house for months at a time. Going out only for groceries once a month which was hell and I'd often end up in the corner of the store crying and having a panic attack

Even now if I know I have a group thing to go to, I panic about it the whole time. I get sick and shaky. 

I don't like loud people or drunk people. I don't go to bars because I can't be around those kind. 
There's a place out back of my work where everyone in the building goes to smoke. I had another. Then people started joining me so I found a different one so I could be alone. I don't like people. I don't want them around me for the most part. 

If my ex had people over, I stayed in my room. The only time I had to interact with them was when out because I had nowhere to hide


----------



## LosingHim

Evinrude58 said:


> LH,
> Babies cry, scream, throw up, dirty diapers, have to be held perfectly, have to be quiet around them while they sleep.......
> 
> They are not something male friends flock to and cause them to want to ccme over and hang out more. If anything, most friends come around LESS because they want the new parents to have time to spend with their new baby, and because the baby needs rest and that's when mom and dad get their rest, too.
> 
> You are likely not noticing the real reason if a man was coming around more often to "play with the baby". He was probably interested in you.
> 
> This guy was coming around more often and using the baby as an excuse to be around OP's wife more. This is my opinion, anyway.
> I could have it all wrong.
> Or, alternatively my conspiracy theory is that he thought OP's baby was his. I agree, that may be a little paranoid.
> 
> But it was one of the two, maybe both.


Interested in ME? Highly doubtful. I’d known my ex husbands best friend for 17 years by the time I had my daughter. We went to kindergarten together, then middle school and part of high school. He actually lived with us for about a year before I got pregnant. He and I were home alone often, most often drinking and he never once made a move on me. Not so much as a sideways glance. And he was a good looking man that was always popular with the ladies. He was over often after I had the baby, with and without my ex husband home. He’d do everything but change diapers. My daughter was a very easy baby though, rarely ever fussed. He didn’t come around as much when I had my son, who was colicky and never stopped crying. He spent so much time with my daughter as a baby that when we flew in November of 2001 (two months after 9-11) we asked him if he would adopt her if something happened to us. He is her Godfather and to this day is still VERY involved in her life. She calls him Uncle F and always has. My ex father in law also came over almost every single day. I was honestly very irritated often the first year of her life because they were both there ALL THE TIME. I couldn’t breastfeed in my own living room because there was always a man there other than my ex husband. But it did get to the point that I would take the opportunity to nap while they were there, because if they were going to watch the baby? WHY NOT? Ex FIL was there so much that I made my ex talk to him about coming over so often, something I feel very guilty about now because he ended up getting cancer and an infection from the radiation and passed away very suddenly a couple of years ago and he was an AMAZING grandfather. He took my kids – from infancy – on days that the babysitter couldn’t watch them, or they had a snow day, he’d come stay with them when they were sick, he was hyper protective of them and watched us like hawks with everything that we did with them. I understand neither instance is the norm for a man, but well, in my life there were 2 such men.


----------



## eric1

LosingHim said:


> I'm just saying, some people here see EVERYTHING as proof that someone who has cheated is lowest of the low snakes who have been cheating the entire relationship.
> 
> I gave an example of a very similar thing where a male friend came over almost daily to visit my baby.
> 
> I did miss the part where op said ww would "bad mouth" him. So yes, he probably had an ulterior motive for quite some time. But damn. Visiting a baby doesn't mean they've been banging for years! Some of y'all here are SOOOOO suspicious of EVERYTHING, I honestly wonder how you get through life being so paranoid about everything. (I'm not saying you, I'm saying in general).
> 
> OPs wife cheated. She admitted it. All this other crap about her banging Dan "for years" because he visited a baby doesn't help a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure his brain is going insane on his own. We all know the mind movies, right? I swear some people here will go as far as "wait, she LOOKED at another man 22 years ago?? OBVIOUSLY she's been a cheating skank wh*re ever since and she'll probably kill your dog in your sleep too!"


I agree with this sentiment. Moreso, it's doing OP a disservice by avoiding talking about the knowns, the fact that she absolutely did have an affair. Once you get to "how many times did they ****?" you're really talking about a rounding error in the big scheme of things. 

First things first.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

When he would go there he would hold the baby. 

It doesn't sound like he just went to see the baby. 

He went to see his friend and while there would play with the baby a bit. 

This made her see him in a better light than her husband. Why? Was her husband not paying much attention to the baby? Were they struggling with splitting parenting responsibilities? 
It doesn't have anything to do with her cheating but what we find ourselves attracted to can be a good tell of things we are needing more from our relationship at home.


----------



## ButtPunch

I like how the OP's friends who had one incident of petting over a 17 year period are now
described as a "pack of drunken men" Wolves come in packs not men. 

He trusted his friends......Big mistake

He trusted his wife.....Bigger Mistake

OP your wife is broken. It is not a husbands job to fix broken.
She was not raped and is not the woman you thought she was.

Divorce or something like this will happen again one way or another.

IMO....I believe they have flirted in the past. 

I don't give a rats ass whose fault this is.....you better run op.

You can't fix crazy.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Op has said they get drunk fast. 
Packs can be people. 
Pack of drunk men is acurate. 

If it was a group of women they would be a pack of drunk women. 

Groups of drunk people can be more dangerous than a single drunk person. The behaviour amplifies, the peer pressure, the acceptance of bad behaviour. 

See, this is the reason many men don't let their wives go out in a pack of drunk women because drunk people in groups often behave badly. It becomes a group mentality and more wild than a one on one. One person crossing the line, then another. 

Same with a pack of drunk men. 

I avoid both.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Op has said they get drunk fast.
> Packs can be people.
> Pack of drunk men is acurate.
> 
> If it was a group of women they would be a pack of drunk women.
> 
> Groups of drunk people can be more dangerous than a single drunk person. The behaviour amplifies, the peer pressure, the acceptance of bad behaviour.
> 
> See, this is the reason many men don't let their wives go out in a pack of drunk women because drunk people in groups often behave badly. It becomes a group mentality and more wild than a one on one. One person crossing the line, then another.
> 
> Same with a pack of drunk men.
> 
> I avoid both.


These were his friends. Only one minor incident over 17 years of partying.

She saw Dan....She liked Dan....She felt Dan attractive....and go figure.... She slept with Dan


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

He knew his friends were the type to get super drunk super fast. 
He said as much.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Interesting question - how many men would let their wives go on a cabin weekend with a couple men and a group of drunk women who had "one minor incident" 17 years ago where they hid cheating? 

Imo almost every guy here would say hell no. Don't let your wife go to that, it's a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Interesting question - how many men would let their wives go on a cabin weekend with a couple men and a group of drunk women who had "one minor incident" 17 years ago where they hid cheating?
> 
> Imo almost every guy here would say hell no. Don't let your wife go to that, it's a disaster waiting to happen.


He didn't let her go there.

They were there together.

He got called away to work.

FFS....She's pooping in plastic containers, been gang-raped, and is now a cheater.

His homelife prior to the cheating has been subpar. I wonder why?

I empathize with the woman because mental illness is terrible.

It's terrible for families, spouses, kids, everyone involved.

You are probably right SGC, He shouldn't of left her crazy ass with those men.
He probably should have locked her in her safe room with some tupperware.

That's no way for him to live is my point.


----------



## LosingHim

eric1 said:


> I agree with this sentiment. Moreso, it's doing OP a disservice by avoiding talking about the knowns, the fact that she absolutely did have an affair. Once you get to "how many times did they ****?" you're really talking about a rounding error in the big scheme of things.
> 
> First things first.


Knowing my husband had an affair that last about a year and a half is enough for me. I know it was PA, I’m sure they were together sexually probably close to 20 times or more given circumstances that I have been able to figure out. There usually isn’t more than a few days that go by that I don’t have ANOTHER aha moment where I put 2 and 2 together and figure out something else. 

My most recent discovery? Remember when I came here and said that my husband, out of the blue, said he wanted a separation and it seemed so sudden and out of nowhere? He’d been talking to her for a month or two PRIOR to that, through private message on Instagram. Cue EA that made him think he was less in love with me. He has followed the cheater mindset and script to a T. The mass amounts of confusion, sickness, craziness that has come with this has been awful. I’ve stressed myself out so much I’ve screwed up my hormones and I’m in the middle of more hormonal testing to figure out how they can help me become more “normal” again. All as a result of the very real things I’ve figured out. I cannot imagine that putting all of these other thoughts of “she’s been a cheating wh*re for YEARS!!!” are doing him any good. At this point, he knows she cheated, she admitted it. Anything else is just guessing. 

I will agree that if Dan was coming to visit the baby and at the same time speaking badly of OP, he most likely had an ulterior motive. But that doesn’t mean that WW was always playing into it. Some naïve women (such as myself) don’t always see the signs until much later. I can see now that my AP had probably been priming me or ‘feeling me out’ for years beforehand. Things that never struck me as off before, but thinking back make sense with where things ended up. Being a person who is hesitant to want to come on too strong or embarrass someone or anger someone or embarrass myself I’ve let more situations go than most people would in the name of “oh they must just be kidding!” LH from 5 years ago would laugh off a “So, I’ve heard you’re kinda freaky” as a joke, an inappropriate one, but harmless nonetheless because it’s not like they TOUCHED me, they were OBVIOUSLY just kidding”. LH today would probably cold c*ck someone who said that. Luckily, I think these days I’m giving out a much less approachable vibe due to changes I’ve made in personal boundaries. 

I am NOT defending WW. I think they should divorce. The way OP speaks of his wife pretty much shows he has zero respect for her. That’s not a dig, that’s just my interpretation. And I think it was that way before she cheated. I don’t see him being able to forgive this. That doesn’t make him wrong. She did the crime. But I do think there are a LOT of circumstances that are outside of the normal “She’s a wh*re cheater, burn her at the stake!” scenario.


----------



## ButtPunch

LosingHim said:


> But I do think there are a LOT of circumstances that are outside of the normal “She’s a wh*re cheater, burn her at the stake!” scenario.


I do agree with this. 

I just think she's mentally ill.

Cut the op some slack.

He's angry and that's normal during grief.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Going away from the cheating a bit here, I don't like the judgy and making fun of her mental illness. 

We have no way of knowing her day to day functioning. I have quite severe anxiety which affects me in groups and around certain people. At home, I'm good and perfectly functional. 

She just needs to learn coping skills, avoid situations that aren't comfortable for her and find friends who are understanding of her so they dont pressure her to go out and be in groups. 

She's not "crazy" She has an illness.

My brother has epilepsy. If he doesn't take his meds or if he drinks he has a grand mal seizure. 
Would you look at him like, oh what a crazy person flipping around on the floor like that just because he had some drinks. 

He also has TS. He will say things, make noises and tick. Worse in stressful situations. Would you make fun of that too? 

Both are illnesses in the brain, as is anxiety and ptsd. A little understanding can go a long way


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She just needs to learn coping skills, avoid situations that aren't comfortable for her and find friends who are understanding of her so they dont pressure her to go out and be in groups.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I agree totally. She needs help.
> 
> Lots of counseling. Anxiety counseling. Rape counseling.
> 
> There is a wise saying on TAM.
> 
> "Hurt People, Hurt People"
> 
> Definitely the case in this situation.
> 
> It will happen again too should he stay and she doesn't get the help she needs.
> 
> People seldom can afford or will admit they need help.
> 
> No making fun, it's the facts the OP is dealing with.


----------



## snerg

LosingHim said:


> I'm just saying, some people here see EVERYTHING as proof that someone who has cheated is lowest of the low snakes who have been cheating the entire relationship.
> 
> I gave an example of a very similar thing where a male friend came over almost daily to visit my baby.
> 
> I did miss the part where op said ww would "bad mouth" him. So yes, he probably had an ulterior motive for quite some time. But damn. Visiting a baby doesn't mean they've been banging for years! Some of y'all here are SOOOOO suspicious of EVERYTHING, I honestly wonder how you get through life being so paranoid about everything. (I'm not saying you, I'm saying in general).
> 
> OPs wife cheated. She admitted it. All this other crap about her banging Dan "for years" because he visited a baby doesn't help a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure his brain is going insane on his own. We all know the mind movies, right? I swear some people here will go as far as "wait, she LOOKED at another man 22 years ago?? OBVIOUSLY she's been a cheating skank wh*re ever since and she'll probably kill your dog in your sleep too!"


here's the fly in your honey.

Dan slept with his wife.

period.

End of story.


Remember, Dan was the only friend that she felt safe around. He was the only one that could and did come over when she was *alone*.

To quote Mr. Spock "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
Too many things are coming together to form a perfect storm that simply wouldn't happen on their own.

I'm quite sure the OP could sit down and think out the last few interactions his wife and Dan had, he would connect dots that weren't readily available.



A buddy of mine was in a somewhat similar situation with his wife.
Close friend.
He was there for the kids.
THe friend was there when his wife was alone.
They ended up having an affair.

It was after the affair when my buddy started putting all the clues together.
All the interactions the wife and friend had became clear on the intents once the affair was realized.

Asking my buddy after his divorce - didn't you see the signs?
No. On their (the signs that is) own, it was just one offs or anomaly's.
Once he discovered the affair, everything fell into place and he could effectively chart the birth of the relationship.

I don't think it's too far fetched to believe this had been going on for a while.
I don't think it's too far fetched to believe that Dan might have thought that the kid was his.

After what my buddy went through and what I have read on this and many other sites, I am no longer surprised what lengths cheaters will go to in order to cheat.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

And words like "crazy" don't go far in understanding mental illness is my point. 

She does need help, away from the OP. She will also need to find someone who understands her mental illness when she finds her next partner. This wasn't a good match from the start but they can both now find ones who are more compatible.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And words like "crazy" don't go far in understanding mental illness is my point.
> 
> She does need help, away from the OP. She will also need to find someone who understands her mental illness when she finds her next partner. This wasn't a good match from the start but they can both now find ones who are more compatible.


LOL.....Crazy is your screen name!


----------



## MyRevelation

ButtPunch said:


> LOL.....Crazy is your screen name!


PRICELESS!!!

Maybe now this thread will stop being clogged up with "Crazy" projections.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Crazy to define and label a mental illness ffs. 

You do understand the difference? 

You're calling his wife crazy. She's not crazy, she's mentally ill. 

My sn has nothing to do with mental illness.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MyRevelation said:


> PRICELESS!!!
> 
> Maybe now this thread will stop being clogged up with "Crazy" projections.


You mean like his kid is Dans and she's been having a secret affair for years and hiding it behind a pretend gang rape and pretend anxiety problem so she could secretly plan being left in the cabin, plan hiding so her husband would encourage her to drink with her long time lover Dan to sleep with him in front of all their friends? 

Ya, sounds pretty "crazy" to me.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You mean like his kid is Dans and she's been having a secret affair for years and hiding it behind a pretend gang rape and pretend anxiety problem so she could secretly plan being left in the cabin, plan hiding so her husband would encourage her to drink with her long time lover Dan to sleep with him in front of all their friends?
> 
> Ya, sounds pretty "crazy" to me.


That theory is just as plausible to me as your's is.

I've seen much worse on here on TAM.

PS....Epilepsy is not a mental illness.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ButtPunch said:


> That theory is just as plausible to me as your's is.
> 
> I've seen much worse on here on TAM.
> 
> PS....Epilepsy is not a mental illness.


No it's not but that's the point. It's an illness in his brain just like anxiety is. Mental illness is an medical illness. 

The theory makes 0 sense and has no reason behind it. At all. 
If Dan was her long term lover why did she hide the whole first day? Why didn't Dan just go to her room? Why did she not want to stay? 
Because he holds a baby its his? What ridiculous world does that come from? My kids must have dozens of Dads. 

What actually happened - she had a crush and while drunk slept with him one time makes the most sense. There is literally no point trying to make a long term affair fit to make it an even worse cheating. It doesn't fit.


----------



## TX-SC

Definately should have a paternity test just to make sure.


----------



## snerg

MyRevelation said:


> PRICELESS!!!
> 
> Maybe now this thread will stop being clogged up with "Crazy" projections.


----------



## NobodySpecial

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No it's not but that's the point. It's an illness in his brain just like anxiety is. Mental illness is an medical illness.
> 
> The theory makes 0 sense and has no reason behind it. At all.
> If Dan was her long term lover why did she hide the whole first day? Why didn't Dan just go to her room? Why did she not want to stay?
> Because he holds a baby its his? What ridiculous world does that come from? My kids must have dozens of Dads.
> 
> What actually happened - she had a crush and while drunk slept with him one time makes the most sense. There is literally no point trying to make a long term affair fit to make it an even worse cheating. It doesn't fit.


Men, in particular, who have been cheated on see cheating everywhere. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


----------



## TX-SC

Not sure what I'm missing here? Woman has crush on husband's friend. Woman gets drunk and has sex with this person. The rest of it is just extraneous noise.


----------



## ButtPunch

TX-SC said:


> Not sure what I'm missing here? Woman has crush on husband's friend. Woman gets drunk and has sex with this person. The rest of it is just extraneous noise.


LOL....The only thing I'm certain of is the OP did get cheated on.

I feel I'm being gaslighted.


----------



## LosingHim

TX-SC said:


> Not sure what I'm missing here? Woman has crush on husband's friend. Woman gets drunk and has sex with this person. The rest of it is just extraneous noise.


When I disclosed of my ONS, the reason I KNEW my husband had gone to some sort of infidelity forum was the things that he was saying to me afterwards. My husband is a smart man, but he’s not introspective, he doesn’t analyze, he doesn’t speak about his feelings, etc. All of these THINGS he was saying to me were totally out of character for him and they seemed like they were coming from a different person. Searching for his internet post (I have another reason to believe he posted it on the net) is actually what eventually lead me to TAM. But the point was, the things that he was saying and asking me where all of the things that follow the script here. The BS’s who project everything onto each new poster. And the thing is – THEY WEREN”T TRUE. But you can sure as hell believe he thought they were, because a group of people on the internet put these thoughts into his head and he believed them.

So much conjecture is wreckless. I don’t know OP, but I know my husband was firing things at me so rapidly that I couldn’t answer right or fast enough to keep up, which made me have to back track a couple of times because I was completely confused and caught off guard by him saying all of these things that were so far off base and out of character. Do you think that made things worse? Uh yeah!! There are probably things he still thinks I’ve lied about, even though I’ve come 100% clean because there were so many ideas put into his head by others I couldn’t make sense of half of what he was asking. 

There is good advice to be had on this forum and a LOT of things will run in the same circles due to the cheater script. And even in the BS script. I’m guilty of the script as a WS AND as a BS. There’s no problem with suggesting a poly, asking for a timeline, suggesting to download cell phone records, suggesting to file divorce that you can stop at any time, giving advice on what worked for you with divorce or R. But some of these theories are so staunchly presented as FACT when the truth is, NONE of us know what really happened. 

My thoughts are: WW is anxiety stricken, a waif, most likely not happy with her relationship with OP because he doesn’t acknowledge her rape and past abuse, she’s quiet, shy and reserved and does whatever OP asks because that’s what expected of her. He left her with a group of boisterous, drunk men, she drank too much, compounded by medication, probably felt free for the first time in a long time and made an awful, horrible choice with long term fallout and they should divorce.

But that’s just my GUESS, We’re horribly lacking WW’s side. OP has given very little info about her. Hasn’t come back much and said how she’s acting, what she’s doing, if he’s found cell phone records or FB messages, if he’s found they’re still in contact, if he’s talked to Dan, NOTHING. We’re all sitting here spinning our wheels with what soap opera we THINK happened, when in actuality, we’re all only assuming and adding fuel to OP’s hurt. 

Until I get more details from OP, honestly, I’m out.


----------



## Primrose

TX-SC said:


> Not sure what I'm missing here? Woman has crush on husband's friend. Woman gets drunk and has sex with this person. The rest of it is just extraneous noise.


Because apparently it just cannot be the fault of OP's wife AND Dan alone. There has to be fingers pointing at OP for trusting his wife amongst a group of his friends. 

Truth of the matter is, I don't care how ****ty his friends are (which they are, incredibly much so), aside from rape, there is NO justification for her cheating. 

If my boyfriend left me amongst a group of his friends, he should be able to expect that I will keep my clothes on. Even if one of them hits on me. Even if my boyfriend directly encourages me to get drunk and sleep with one of his buddies. I won't do it unless it's what I want to do. I won't remove articles of clothing unless I'm trying to get attention. I won't cuddle on the couch with one of his friends unless it's what I want to do. 

And I do have anxiety and depression and some PTSD, for what it's worth. I am a rape victim and a CSA survivor. 

But still, every decision is my own at this stage in my life (30's).


----------



## BetrayedDad

NobodySpecial said:


> Men, in particular, who have been cheated on see cheating everywhere. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


Looks to me like she confessed to nailing Dan...


----------



## BetrayedDad

Primrose said:


> Because apparently it just cannot be the fault of OP's wife AND Dan alone. There has to be fingers pointing at OP for trusting his wife amongst a group of his friends.
> 
> Truth of the matter is, I don't care how ****ty his friends are (which they are, incredibly much so), aside from rape, there is NO justification for her cheating.
> 
> If my boyfriend left me amongst a group of his friends, he should be able to expect that I will keep my clothes on. Even if one of them hits on me. Even if my boyfriend directly encourages me to get drunk and sleep with one of his buddies. I won't do it unless it's what I want to do. I won't remove articles of clothing unless I'm trying to get attention. I won't cuddle on the couch with one of his friends unless it's what I want to do.
> 
> And I do have anxiety and depression and some PTSD, for what it's worth. I am a rape victim and a CSA survivor.
> 
> But still, every decision is my own at this stage in my life (30's).


As someone who clearly has a clue and believes strongly in concepts like accountability and self respect, do you have any theories as to why certain members on this thread continue to justify, and blame shift onto the OP, this vile POS cheater's behavior?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

People have said many many many times that her behavior there is on her alone and that she needed to make better choices and what she did was wrong and it is ultimately her responsibility.... 

Many times.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> People have said many many many times that her behavior there is on her alone and that she needed to make better choices and what she did was wrong and it is ultimately her responsibility....
> 
> Many times.


So how many more times do we need to hear about how helpless she is (mentally ill, gang raped, anxiety, shyness, introvert, epilepsy, paper cuts, etc.)?

Because nobody cares about her excuses for destroying OP's life. That's all they are.... EXCUSES.


----------



## VladDracul

TX-SC said:


> Definately should have a paternity test just to make sure.


Maybe she can convince her husband the baby is not hers.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Because it's very relevant when people are doing things like making suggestions that she's made it all up or anxiety would never let her do X or she's been having a long term affair and that's why she doesn't like being around his friends because her anxiety wouldn't cause that or why a situation like that wouldn't be good for her to be in in the first place ... 

People are making assumptions about her other behaviors and deciding on long term affairs and secret affair babies and manipulative plans, faking past rapes. All these things are very relevant to the fact that she has a mental illness.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> All these things are very relevant to the fact that she has a mental illness.


Like I asked you before, when you were going on and on about her gang rape.

So what? Okay, she's mentally ill. All the more reason for OP to cut bait and run. 

We both agreed last week. They need to break up. We don't have to agree on why.


----------



## Stillasamountain

It's been mentioned more than once before but if I were the OP I'd be pretty damned interested in why the infamous vaginal pain did not rear its ugly head. Not to mention why she didn't (seemingly) have an issue with Danny dumping a load of baby batter into her.

I think you need the results of a DNA test ASAP.


----------



## LosingHim

Stillasamountain said:


> It's been mentioned more than once before but if I were the OP I'd be pretty damned interested in why the infamous vaginal pain did not rear its ugly head. Not to mention why she didn't (seemingly) have an issue with Danny dumping a load of baby batter into her.
> 
> I think you need the results of a DNA test ASAP.


Because she was drunk. Alcohol = relaxation. Dependent on why it hurts with OP. If it hurts because she’s tense and uncomfortable with them having sex her yoohoo is going to slam shut and make it hurt. If she was as drunk as we think, relaxation could have made her relaxed enough “down there” to make it smooth sailing. A lot of women are able to do anal for the same reason when they are drinking.


----------



## LosingHim

There's also the chance that OP is "gifted" and Dan is not. 

He hasn't clarified why it hurts her. Leading up to that time of month, my husband can hurt me due to the fact that I'm crampy. The area he hits can make it painful. The rest of the month it's not painful. Could be a similar issue with her own anatomy. If OP is lengthier he could be hitting something deeper than Dan did. If he's girthier it could be that she can't relax enough to accommodate him.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Because it's very relevant when people are doing things like making suggestions that she's made it all up or anxiety would never let her do X or she's been having a long term affair and that's why she doesn't like being around his friends because her anxiety wouldn't cause that or why a situation like that wouldn't be good for her to be in in the first place ...
> 
> People are making assumptions about her other behaviors and deciding on long term affairs and secret affair babies and manipulative plans, faking past rapes. All these things are very relevant to the fact that she has a mental illness.


You do realize all your conjecture is nothing more than an assumption on your part as well, right?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Her having a secret affair baby and she faked her rape cause she really likes gang bangs and just didn't want people to know is a much bigger assumption than going by what the OP says that she has serious anxiety which will alter the way she reacts and behaves in certain situations. 

She doesn't like being around his friends and hides cause she has a long history of cheating with them is much less likely than her anxiety causing it. 

A man who plays with a baby when he comes over to see his friends is not likely the father of that baby just because babies aren't that fun to some men. 

These kinds of things are very unlikely, far fetched assumptions that could make a lot of problems that aren't needed. 
Now he's waiting for her to admit it was a long term affair with Dan and doesn't believe her when she says it wasn't.


----------



## ButtPunch

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Her having a secret affair baby and she faked her rape cause she really likes gang bangs and just didn't want people to know is a much bigger assumption than going by what the OP says that she has serious anxiety which will alter the way she reacts and behaves in certain situations.
> 
> She doesn't like being around his friends and hides cause she has a long history of cheating with them is much less likely than her anxiety causing it.
> 
> A man who plays with a baby when he comes over to see his friends is not likely the father of that baby just because babies aren't that fun to some men.
> 
> These kinds of things are very unlikely, far fetched assumptions that could make a lot of problems that aren't needed.
> Now he's waiting for her to admit it was a long term affair with Dan and doesn't believe her when she says it wasn't.


The man coming over all the time to hold the baby.......Well....That's plain weird to me. Serious red flag in my book. 

The fact that OP has doubts to the truthfulness of his own wife's gang rape is extremely peculiar. 

The fact that she can behave one way around her hubby and behave another when he's not around. 
She could easily compartmentalize into "timid wife" around hubby and "cheating *****" when he's gone.

Your theory is just that....a theory.

No better no worse than anyone elses. Would I be surprised if the baby is Dan's......yes I would be.

Would it blow my mind......not hardly.


----------



## LosingHim

ButtPunch said:


> The man coming over all the time to hold the baby.......Well....That's plain weird to me. Serious red flag in my book.
> 
> The fact that OP has doubts to the truthfulness of his own wife's gang rape is extremely peculiar.
> 
> The fact that she can behave one way around her hubby and behave another when he's not around.
> She could easily compartmentalize into "timid wife" around hubby and "cheating *****" when he's gone.
> 
> Your theory is just that....a theory.
> 
> No better no worse than anyone elses. Would I be surprised if the baby is Dan's......yes I would be.
> 
> Would it blow my mind......not hardly.


It’s ALL conjecture. That’s the problem. OP came here and gave us a back story and a few details and for a week now, we’ve all come up with what we THINK happened. And there’s been everything under the sun said about it. But as I said earlier, very little has been said since the original posts. There’s currently another post on here right now about a WW who got wasted and banged another dude and people are nowhere near defending the wife as much. There’s also no one YET, coming up with all of these theories of how she’s a low down dirty gang banging ***** who screws all his friends and hides paternity. 

We’re all coming up with what we THINK happened because we’re being fed very little information to go on. I think that’s by design.


----------



## Primrose

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> People have said many many many times that her behavior there is on her alone and that she needed to make better choices and what she did was wrong and it is ultimately her responsibility....
> 
> Many times.


Followed by multiple, "But OP should have/should never have.." thereby displacing some blame on him. 

OP's wife cheated. Period. As adults we should be accountable enough to cling to our morals without the presence of our SO. If we cannot, it's a character flaw no matter how you dice it. And it's by no fault of our SO. 

I do not believe the theories that this is a long going PA. I do not believe she lied about being raped in the past, nor do I believe the OP's baby is Dan's. 

I DO believe that she has carried a torch for him for years and took advantage of the situation she chose to stay in because, regardless of if she felt pressured to stay, OP has already said there was another house on the same property that she could have gone to. 

Alcohol DOES lower your inhibitions, but you still will not have consensual sex with that person if you are not interested. You do not cuddle if you are not interested and you do not remove clothing unless you want to (and proceed to remain topless the remainder of the night).


----------



## NobodySpecial

Stillasamountain said:


> It's been mentioned more than once before but if I were the OP I'd be pretty damned interested in why the infamous vaginal pain did not rear its ugly head.


Have you ever been ****faced?


----------



## VladDracul

LosingHim said:


> There’s currently another post on here right now about a WW who got wasted and banged another dude and people are nowhere near defending the wife as much.


Yep. And I realize there are two different authors, like Steven King and Richard Bachman.


----------



## Idyit

jdr8 said:


> I asked the most sober guy and he said he remembered her drinking 3-4 drinks but wasn't really watching her. He took notice because he opened them for her and she kept knocking the empties in front of her over. That's a far cry from 8.


It may be more convenient to stick to the 8-9 drink theory but OP corrected this to 3-4. Does this still make the pain go away for her? Probably makes it more painful for OP.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

TX-SC said:


> Not sure what I'm missing here? Woman has crush on husband's friend. Woman gets drunk and has sex with this person. The rest of it is just extraneous noise.


 Exactly. 


JDR8 get a divorce. Next ....


p.s. Oh yeah, and @jdr8, give us an update between SGC's posts when you get a chance.


----------



## ABHale

jdr8 said:


> Dan doesn't have any kids, so it better ****ing not be. None of our friends have kids yet so I don't have anything to compare his behaviour to. He came over a lot more often after our child was born, it lessened over time after the first year.


I think I would be doing some DNA testing about now.


----------



## Louise McCann

Talker67 said:


> well, there ARE people mentally ill enough to NOT be able to control their decisions. Severe alcoholics, for instance. SOMETIMES they can get medical help, and become "cured". Often times not.


WW isn't an alcoholic nor severely mentally ill though. Such people exist but she isn't one of them. A cheater is a cheater, simple as


----------



## BetrayedDad

LosingHim said:


> We’re all coming up with what we THINK happened because we’re being fed very little information to go on. I think that’s by design.


Whether OP is legit or not doesn't make the conversation everyone is having any less valuable.

This scenario could be all too real for someone else and they could use the advice in this thread.


----------



## Louise McCann

Amazed at how many people are blaming OP, minimizing WW's depraved act of infidelity because she is disturbed and that OP needs to help her...No. He doesn't owe her anything but a divorce if he wishes to. 

She is sane as far as I am concerned, don't see how her mental illness is directly related to her cheating unless a new disorder called "innate uncontrollable cheating" has come to light... 

If mental illness were a valid excuse, many murderers would easily be let off just by having anxiety, bipolar or personality disorders. There must be a reason why the only defence criminals can attempt to use is the insanity claim. I am pretty sure WW is a sane person. 

Sane person cheated through the act of consensual sex, sane person was drunk but conscious, sane person is 100% accountable.


----------



## Jus260

jdr8 said:


> When we first got together every single one of my friends told me not to date her because she was weird (wouldn't talk to them, avoided them, hid from them, wouldn't let me touch her, sexless, etc). A night that I got totally wasted I told them all that she was gang raped and too many privileged details and again they all said to dump her. She was broken. It wasn't worth it. To find someone normal. I should have listened.



What attracted you to her? 

Even before the affair, you were dealing with a lot. This so called one night stand doesn't seem to be any worse than any of the other problems you were dealing with.


----------



## harrybrown

She really has the hots for your friend Dan.

She stripped and f***ed him in front of all your so called "friends"

She has been talking to him and has carried a torch for him for years.

Let him have her.

Can you get a drive thru divorce? that would not be quick enough.

Hope you can some day find some peace.

Sorry for your pain. but do get your child DNA tested.


She is still in contact with Dan and is still lying to you.


----------



## Stillasamountain

NobodySpecial said:


> Have you ever been sh!tfaced?




I used to be the poster boy for it. Unfortunately, I don't have a cooch so I can't speculate on its therapeutic effects regarding vaginismus.

Regardless, I was less interested in theories from the peanut gallery and more of whether the OP had addressed it with her. Probably a foregone conclusion anyway. I'm sure she would come back with what seems to be the number one survey answer so far. "Demon rum" explains everything. Convenient, no?

Frankly, the only way the facts (as laid out thus far) make any sense to me is if the OP doesn't know his wife half as well as he thinks he does.


----------



## jorgegene

Primrose said:


> Followed by multiple, "But OP should have/should never have.." thereby displacing some blame on him.
> 
> OP's wife cheated. Period. As adults we should be accountable enough to cling to our morals without the presence of our SO. If we cannot, it's a character flaw no matter how you dice it. And it's by no fault of our SO.
> 
> I do not believe the theories that this is a long going PA. I do not believe she lied about being raped in the past, nor do I believe the OP's baby is Dan's.
> 
> I DO believe that she has carried a torch for him for years and took advantage of the situation she chose to stay in because, regardless of if she felt pressured to stay, OP has already said there was another house on the same property that she could have gone to.
> 
> Alcohol DOES lower your inhibitions, but you still will not have consensual sex with that person if you are not interested. You do not cuddle if you are not interested and you do not remove clothing unless you want to (and proceed to remain topless the remainder of the night).


It reminds me of the politicians that get up on the podium and insist "I take full responsibility!" And then list a Litany of excuses and lay blame at everyone else............


----------



## jdr8

I haven’t been actively posting for two reasons. First, I have a job. I work 12 hour shifts with a 2 hour commute each way. I basically work and sleep. What little free time I do have I’d like to try and distract myself from the disaster that is my marriage. Second, reading all of the different theories and assumptions like this is a murder mystery board is not doing anything helpful to my mind. Ideas that I would not have come up with are now burning through my mind like a wild fire after being suggested here. I lied, 3 reasons. If I’m going to divorce my wife then what is the point in coming back here? Just to post and make myself more miserable and rub it in my own face? It also gets to the point that there is so much that has happened and come to light that I don't know what I want to/should share and what is useless information or shouldn't be shared). 

My wife is staying with my parents, which I have mentioned. I am not able to access call records, I think that is an American thing like polygraphs. I have asked Dan if he is still in communication with my wife and he has said no. They communicated after xyz but it has stopped. I asked Dan’s brother if he knows if they are still communicating (those brothers are very close) and he said he hasn’t. When I asked 3 friends how long the affair has been going on the general answer was that they were shocked that it could have been going on longer than that one night. My wife calls and texts me every day. She wants to meet and talk, come home. The two times we have tried to talk she cries so much that the conversation goes no where. My wife is telling me that she will do whatever I want her to and will tell me anything. After asking, some things I wish I didn’t hear. 

Apparently Dan has said he’d **** my wife and called her a MILF on at least a few occasions when he was wasted (when my wife and I were not present). He was corrected and told to have some respect, but I wasn’t filled it. He also said it the night my wife did what she did, but my wife wasn’t in the room at the time. She admitted to hearing it, but didn’t hear who it was directed at. I heard from two sources, one being my wife, that Dan told her he wouldn’t have left her there alone and would have told work to **** off. Something I wouldn’t think much of if it were not for comments on this post. My wife told me that Dan has said other comments like that to her, which made her feel like he was better. Comments like he’d be a more attentive father, he’d spend more time with them, he’d listen more, etc. Dan is a clingy dude. Every time he gets a new girlfriend he stops talking to everyone and gives every minute to the new woman. My wife and I could fight all day about the amount of time we spend together. When I’m out of the house 16 hours a day extra time is a difficult to find. Regardless of what he said to her or not, she still chose to throw away our marriage and **** him. She said in the moment for a second she thought he’d be a better dad. If I hadn’t read comments here, I wouldn’t think anything of the comments he made to her other than he’s a ****. 

I have asked my wife why she could barely have sex with me but could do it with him and why she let him come in her. At the rate the conversation was going she didn’t give me a response and to be fair I didn’t really give her time to. Our sex life has always been a bit different. It took her 2 years to have sex of any sort with me or be naked around me. After that she was very nervous and uncomfortable. She just recently started telling me what she likes and what feels good. The sex has always been painful for her. Her description of the pain is that it feels like a muscle stretching. Even just a finger hurts her and is very tight to get in. It’s not uncomfortable for me at all, opposite. She gets no pleasure for any sort of vaginal penetration. Certain position, like doggy, go to deep and hurts her. It doesn’t matter how much foreplay we do or how turned on she is. The pain became a lot worse after our child was born. I’m not larger than “average” but not crazy well endowed by any means. I don’t think size is the problem, seeing as a finger hurts. So if sex hurts so bad when we do it, why didn’t it hurt when she cheated on me? She doesn’t like when I come in her because she doesn’t like that it drips back out and makes a mess. We were having sex more often when I’d pull out. I guess she didn’t care if it was his sperm dripping from her. 

I do get pissed off by the comments about my wife being crazy, damaged, broken, never should of married her, etc. I hate her, but she is still my wife. I hate that I married her, but for different reasons. She is still the woman that I fell in love with, married and created a family with. 90% of the time she acts like a typical person and she has come a long way from where she was when we first met. She has small quirks, such as I can’t touch her in certain spots or she can’t watch shows with rape (Game of Thrones for example). If someone rings the doorbell she has an anxiety attack and won’t answer the door. Most of the time at home though she is a typical adult, unless I have people over. When we go out to a movie, shopping, etc. she is fine unless there is a group of men or men of a certain race. There are many things that get to her but she keeps them hidden easily. Some situations are worse for her. She is not crazy and is not a walking disaster. 

We started off as friends. Her best friend was dating mine and we met that way. We started talking over some sort of social media and clicked well. She was studying overseas for 2 semesters and we talked everyday, all day and skipped all night. I fell in love with her before I met her and really saw all of her “quirks”. If we had got together right away, then maybe I would have been scared off because she was a lot worse then. She was different than any of the other women I had been with in a long time. My previous girlfriends I knew I’d never marry, even when we had been together for years. My wife, I knew I was going to marry her. She’s beautiful. She’s smart, she has a PhD and she’s great at what she does. She was one of the sweetest people that I knew. I use to say that she was kind and giving.


----------



## TX-SC

jdr8 said:


> I haven’t been actively posting for two reasons. First, I have a job. I work 12 hour shifts with a 2 hour commute each way. I basically work and sleep. What little free time I do have I’d like to try and distract myself from the disaster that is my marriage. Second, reading all of the different theories and assumptions like this is a murder mystery board is not doing anything helpful to my mind. Ideas that I would not have come up with are now burning through my mind like a wild fire after being suggested here. I lied, 3 reasons. If I’m going to divorce my wife then what is the point in coming back here? Just to post and make myself more miserable and rub it in my own face? It also gets to the point that there is so much that has happened and come to light that I don't know what I want to/should share and what is useless information or shouldn't be shared).
> 
> My wife is staying with my parents, which I have mentioned. I am not able to access call records, I think that is an American thing like polygraphs. I have asked Dan if he is still in communication with my wife and he has said no. They communicated after xyz but it has stopped. I asked Dan’s brother if he knows if they are still communicating (those brothers are very close) and he said he hasn’t. When I asked 3 friends how long the affair has been going on the general answer was that they were shocked that it could have been going on longer than that one night. My wife calls and texts me every day. She wants to meet and talk, come home. The two times we have tried to talk she cries so much that the conversation goes no where. My wife is telling me that she will do whatever I want her to and will tell me anything. After asking, some things I wish I didn’t hear.
> 
> Apparently Dan has said he’d **** my wife and called her a MILF on at least a few occasions when he was wasted (when my wife and I were not present). He was corrected and told to have some respect, but I wasn’t filled it. He also said it the night my wife did what she did, but my wife wasn’t in the room at the time. She admitted to hearing it, but didn’t hear who it was directed at. I heard from two sources, one being my wife, that Dan told her he wouldn’t have left her there alone and would have told work to **** off. Something I wouldn’t think much of if it were not for comments on this post. My wife told me that Dan has said other comments like that to her, which made her feel like he was better. Comments like he’d be a more attentive father, he’d spend more time with them, he’d listen more, etc. Dan is a clingy dude. Every time he gets a new girlfriend he stops talking to everyone and gives every minute to the new woman. My wife and I could fight all day about the amount of time we spend together. When I’m out of the house 16 hours a day extra time is a difficult to find. Regardless of what he said to her or not, she still chose to throw away our marriage and **** him. She said in the moment for a second she thought he’d be a better dad. If I hadn’t read comments here, I wouldn’t think anything of the comments he made to her other than he’s a ****.
> 
> I have asked my wife why she could barely have sex with me but could do it with him and why she let him come in her. At the rate the conversation was going she didn’t give me a response and to be fair I didn’t really give her time to. Our sex life has always been a bit different. It took her 2 years to have sex of any sort with me or be naked around me. After that she was very nervous and uncomfortable. She just recently started telling me what she likes and what feels good. The sex has always been painful for her. Her description of the pain is that it feels like a muscle stretching. Even just a finger hurts her and is very tight to get in. It’s not uncomfortable for me at all, opposite. She gets no pleasure for any sort of vaginal penetration. Certain position, like doggy, go to deep and hurts her. It doesn’t matter how much foreplay we do or how turned on she is. The pain became a lot worse after our child was born. I’m not larger than “average” but not crazy well endowed by any means. I don’t think size is the problem, seeing as a finger hurts. So if sex hurts so bad when we do it, why didn’t it hurt when she cheated on me? She doesn’t like when I come in her because she doesn’t like that it drips back out and makes a mess. We were having sex more often when I’d pull out. I guess she didn’t care if it was his sperm dripping from her.
> 
> I do get pissed off by the comments about my wife being crazy, damaged, broken, never should of married her, etc. I hate her, but she is still my wife. I hate that I married her, but for different reasons. She is still the woman that I fell in love with, married and created a family with. 90% of the time she acts like a typical person and she has come a long way from where she was when we first met. She has small quirks, such as I can’t touch her in certain spots or she can’t watch shows with rape (Game of Thrones for example). If someone rings the doorbell she has an anxiety attack and won’t answer the door. Most of the time at home though she is a typical adult, unless I have people over. When we go out to a movie, shopping, etc. she is fine unless there is a group of men or men of a certain race. There are many things that get to her but she keeps them hidden easily. Some situations are worse for her. She is not crazy and is not a walking disaster.
> 
> We started off as friends. Her best friend was dating mine and we met that way. We started talking over some sort of social media and clicked well. She was studying overseas for 2 semesters and we talked everyday, all day and skipped all night. I fell in love with her before I met her and really saw all of her “quirks”. If we had got together right away, then maybe I would have been scared off because she was a lot worse then. She was different than any of the other women I had been with in a long time. My previous girlfriends I knew I’d never marry, even when we had been together for years. My wife, I knew I was going to marry her. She’s beautiful. She’s smart, she has a PhD and she’s great at what she does. She was one of the sweetest people that I knew. I use to say that she was kind and giving.


You'll have to excuse the banter here and take what you need and leave the rest. Everyone has an opinion.

It seems to me that your wife's anxiety is a major source of concern, but it can't be used as a crutch or an excuse. The reality is that she and Dan have been flirting around for a while. She got drunk then let it go too far. The lack of pain or concern over him making a deposit likely is due to the alcohol. I would try to not focus too much on that. Your wife bought into his BS then had sex with him. It's the EXACT same MO as most adultery. The man (or woman) makes little jokes about how cute she (or he) is. He finds her receptive. He makes more jokes. He talks down the husband to make himself look good. It snowballs from there.

As I said earlier, the rape and alcohol, the fact that you left her there and had to work, it's all extraneous information and irrelevant. He played her like a fiddle, she fell for it, they had sex. She had a crush on him and he knew it. It's just like 95% of all affairs. Someone made a move and someone fell for it.

If it were me, I'd focus way less on the specifics of the sex and zero in on the fact that she thought he would be a better husband and dad to your child. Sorry, but that **** would make me livid!


----------



## Louise McCann

Yup agree with TX-SC, she thought he would be a better dad... okay wtf? Sounds like alcohol wasn't what triggered her reckless decision. She had actually put thought into it. 

She sounds boring and tries to play the character of the innocent classy sweet all rounded loving wife. I have also been a victim of date rape, but she is using her past as an excuse for everything off about her. Not being able to watch game of thrones...? It's like you fell for a woman you thought was wife material when she's really a phoney ho. 

You don't have to hate her, OP. We don't expect you too, many people have been wronged by their spouses and due to the immense love they have for them, they simply cannot hate them, myself included. However, you need to acknowledge that she is troubled goods, that this marriage probably could never work out and that both of you are better off leading separate lives.


----------



## eric1

I agree with you that he comments here are not productive. The problem that you are dealing with now - the affair - is problem enough. Should that ever get solved then you can peel back the onion on the rest. Lots doesn't add up and given she isn't really responsive to you...well then your options are very very limited.

My recommendation to you is to suggest to her that in 72 hours you need a full written time line of the affair. 

Also, the fact that she was talking to him afterwards is very ungood. Do you have access to that communication or do you know if it was over text (where you could recover it)

The basic deal here is if you were going to decide between D and R then you need the one billion percent truth . Given you have not filed yet I'll presume that's the situation?


----------



## Evinrude58

I hope you keep the frame of mind to divorce her.
The fact that she doesn't want sex with you, and does with another man....
And that she thought he'd be a better dad,
And that the one time an opportunity arises she cheats.....

Hair really surprising is that this dan character has made all these comments about wanting to f your wife, and not one of these friends of yours tells you that he's a snake in the grass....

You truly have the worst friends ever.

He's groomed your wife for years, she's obviously loved his attention. Apparently couldn't wait to jump in the sack with him. Couldn't even wait to do the deed in private, even, so it wouldn't bring total shame to you in front of all these "friends"....

Your wife doesn't appear to love you like a wife should. I'd find another.

The alcohol excuse is just a smoke screen for trying to downplay how badly she must have been wanting this guy. 

I would never get over this. I think it would be easier for you to move on, in spite of how badly this is going to hurt for months and months. If you stayed, it would hurt for the rest of your life. 

AND you'd not only get bad or no sex, you'd get sex with a woman that for all you knew, wanted it with someone else.... 
Few cheaters I'd think really feel their AP would be a better father. That's incredibly hurtful. 

Yeah, I'd file.


----------



## Herschel

Gtfo


----------



## aine

Jdr*,
this is definitely not easy for you because it is not just your wife's betrayal but to a certain extent your friends too. Real friends have each others backs and protect what belongs to their friends including wives and kids, but as I said before your friends are like a pack, (sorry but no other way to describe it) and there seems to be no loyalty, one of them should have put you on notice about Dan and his behaviour about your missus, it is really that simple.

You should get counselling to help with how you are feeling and to work through what you want to do.
Your commuting hours and long office hours are tough on you and on your marriage though maybe it is what you have to do to earn a living, your wife ought to have understood that better. Or at least you guys should have talked about it more.

Do not make any rash decisions now. Just take one day at a time, eat properly, rest properly, get exercise and couselling, then make a decision when you feel ready to.


----------



## ButtPunch

jdr8 said:


> I do get pissed off by the comments about my wife being crazy, damaged, broken, never should of married her, etc. I hate her, but she is still my wife. I hate that I married her, but for different reasons. She is still the woman that I fell in love with, married and created a family with. 90% of the time she acts like a typical person and she has come a long way from where she was when we first met. She has small quirks, such as I can’t touch her in certain spots or she can’t watch shows with rape (Game of Thrones for example). If someone rings the doorbell she has an anxiety attack and won’t answer the door. Most of the time at home though she is a typical adult, unless I have people over. When we go out to a movie, shopping, etc. she is fine unless there is a group of men or men of a certain race. There are many things that get to her but she keeps them hidden easily. Some situations are worse for her. She is not crazy and is not a walking disaster.


I have been on this site for over five years.

To reconcile or not is your decision.

However, unless she is remorseful....this will happen again.
Remorse isn't boohooing in the telephone either. 

There must be consequences to her cheating....as in she needs to truly believe that you can
walk away from her and be just fine.

She must actively seek therapy for the things that caused her to stray. 
There are many of those. Anxiety/Phobia issues, rape issues, foo issues, sex issues.

It's your life if you can forgive her for banging your friend, and she can do the work
on herself to find proper coping mechanisms it may work out. 

BUT IF SHE DOESN'T.....I PROMISE SHE WILL HURT YOU AGAIN.

Hurt people, hurt people. 


By the way, most people with mental illness or issues are great 90% of the time.

Good luck on your recovery


----------



## snerg

jdr8 said:


> My wife is staying with my parents, which I have mentioned. I am not able to access call records, I think that is an American thing like polygraphs. I have asked Dan if he is still in communication with my wife and he has said no. They communicated after xyz but it has stopped. I asked Dan’s brother if he knows if they are still communicating (those brothers are very close) and he said he hasn’t. When I asked 3 friends how long the affair has been going on the general answer was that they were shocked that it could have been going on longer than that one night. My wife calls and texts me every day.
> She wants to meet and talk, come home. The two times we have tried to talk she cries so much that the conversation goes no where. My wife is telling me that she will do whatever I want her to and will tell me anything. After asking, some things I wish I didn’t hear.


Couple things.
1) Dan, your wife, your friends are all liars. Don't believe anything - when their lips are moving, they are lying
2) your wife has regret, not remorse. Big difference!
3) you need to be apart for a few days. Do not meet just yet. I do suggest you find IC (one that specializes with infidelity.) you need someone to talk to.





jdr8 said:


> Apparently Dan has said he’d **** my wife and called her a MILF on at least a few occasions when he was wasted (when my wife and I were not present). He was corrected and told to have some respect, but I wasn’t filled it.


I said it before. Dan is a turd and your other "friends" are toxic.
They have to go before you do any dealings with your wife.




jdr8 said:


> He also said it the night my wife did what she did, but my wife wasn’t in the room at the time. She admitted to hearing it, but didn’t hear who it was directed at. I heard from two sources, one being my wife, that Dan told her he wouldn’t have left her there alone and would have told work to **** off. Something I wouldn’t think much of if it were not for comments on this post.


Again, Dan is a turd. Your "friends" are terrible people for not getting all over him for running his mouth like that.



jdr8 said:


> My wife told me that Dan has said other comments like that to her, *which made her feel like he was better*. Comments like he’d be a more attentive father, he’d spend more time with them, he’d listen more, etc.


Did I mention that Dan is a turd yet?
And your wife has some serious issues. Dude coming on to her and she thinks he's better than you.
That's disrespect on a galactic scale - that's boot your a$$ to the curb level, cheating or not!




jdr8 said:


> Dan is a clingy dude. Every time he gets a new girlfriend he stops talking to everyone and gives every minute to the new woman.


Question, have you contacted Dan's girlfriend yet?




jdr8 said:


> Regardless of what he said to her or not, she still chose to throw away our marriage and **** him.


This is a major factor.
Is infidelity a deal breaker for you?




jdr8 said:


> She said in the moment for a second she thought he’d be a better dad.


I'll be honest, I couldn't get over this.
The infidelity would be the push for the divorce.
This would be the nail in the coffin.
I know I could never reconcile this. *EVER*.





jdr8 said:


> I have asked my wife why she could barely have sex with me but could do it with him and why she let him come in her. At the rate the conversation was going she didn’t give me a response and to be fair I didn’t really give her time to. Our sex life has always been a bit different. It took her 2 years to have sex of any sort with me or be naked around me. After that she was very nervous and uncomfortable. She just recently started telling me what she likes and what feels good. The sex has always been painful for her. Her description of the pain is that it feels like a muscle stretching. Even just a finger hurts her and is very tight to get in. It’s not uncomfortable for me at all, opposite. She gets no pleasure for any sort of vaginal penetration. Certain position, like doggy, go to deep and hurts her. It doesn’t atter how much foreplay we do or how turned on she is. The pain became a lot worse after our child was born. I’m not larger than “average” but not crazy well endowed by any means. I don’t think size is the problem, seeing as a finger hurts. So if sex hurts so bad when we do it, why didn’t it hurt when she cheated on me? She doesn’t like when I come in her because she doesn’t like that it drips back out and makes a mess. We were having sex more often when I’d pull out. I guess she didn’t care if it was his sperm dripping from her.


I save you all the mental anguish and hamster wheel spinning questions.
Hear is the reason why.
Because.
It's really that simple.
Because she doesn't love you the way you require
Because she doesn't desire you the way you want
Because she is invested in Dan more than you
Because she desires Dan more than you
Because - that's all you need to understand and accept.




jdr8 said:


> I do get pissed off by the comments about my wife being crazy, damaged, broken, never should of married her, etc. I hate her, but she is still my wife. I hate that I married her, but for different reasons. *She is still the woman that I fell in love with, married and created a family with.*


No.
No she is not.
That is a paradigm that you have to change.Rapidly if possible.
You mean to tell me that you fell in love with a woman that would willingly bang a friend of yours?
I think not.
That woman is gone (perhaps never existed) and that is a reality you have to come to terms with.




jdr8 said:


> 90% of the time she acts like a typical person and she has come a long way from where she was when we first met. She has small quirks, such as I can’t touch her in certain spots or she can’t watch shows with rape (Game of Thrones for example). If someone rings the doorbell she has an anxiety attack and won’t answer the door. Most of the time at home though she is a typical adult, unless I have people over. When we go out to a movie, shopping, etc. she is fine unless there is a group of men or men of a certain race. There are many things that get to her but she keeps them hidden easily. Some situations are worse for her. She is not crazy and is not a walking disaster.



Perhaps you should take a long hard look at your wife now that your rose colored glasses are off.
I think all people that cheat have a bit of crazy in them.
They are willing to blow up families.
They are willing to take time away from "loved" ones
They are willing to loose a marriage, a home, time with their children
They are willing to do the single most harmful thing to a person (save for murder)
They are willing to cause hurt so great that a person will sometimes kill themselves

Yeah, there's a bit of crazy in infidelity and you should probably change your paradigm on that too.

I'll be honest. If it were me, I couldn't take her back.
There is far too much disrespect.
There is far to many issues (not mental issues that is)

You need to stop being a white knight.
You need IC ASAP.


----------



## BetrayedDad

jdr8 said:


> It took her 2 years to have sex of any sort with me or be naked around me.





jdr8 said:


> I guess she didn’t care if it was his sperm dripping from her.


You need to accept a few things:

1) You may be the "nicer" guy but she is MORE attracted to Dan physically. She LUSTS for him. You're just her babysitter. A beta white knight.

2) It "hurts" her so much cause she can't get wet/aroused for you. She LOVED getting railed by Dan. There was no pain. He made her vag dilate.

3) To go THAT far with Dan in one night is a clear sign SHE HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU. She LET him inseminate her. She WANTED him to mark her.

4) You will resent her for this forever. She stabbed you in the back. No woman who truly LOVED her husband would ever have done this. EVER.

5) The biggest lesson I ever learned is find someone who WANTS to be with you. If you had to WORK THAT hard to get her, she wasn't worth it.


----------



## LosingHim

Dan was grooming your wife for years. With you working so many hours it was easy. I’m not saying that to blame you before anyone goes crazy on me, I’m just saying, when a spouse is away 16 hours a day it makes it hard to be close and continue a bond. She most likely got used to being home alone, taking care of the kids and being there when you WERE there. I’ve seen many relationships split up because people spend too much time apart. Dan sounds like scum who knew you weren’t home a lot, she may have even talked to him about being lonely. Dan sounds like your classic manipulator who sees an opening and goes for it. If your wife is an anxiety ridden waif who likes to please people and keep status quo, she was an easy target. That type rarely know how to say no and sometimes cling to the attention (I did the same).


----------



## Roselyn

jdr8;1843454
We started off as friends. Her best friend was dating mine and we met that way. We started talking over some sort of social media and clicked well. She was studying overseas for 2 semesters and we talked everyday said:


> Whhaaattt? She has a PhD? OP, you have been played like a fiddle! I am a university professor for 27 years & have a PhD. I don't know what to say to you at this moment. You need to just get out of this marriage. I do not believe that your situation will get any better.


----------



## drifting on

jdr8 said:


> I haven’t been actively posting for two reasons. First, I have a job. I work 12 hour shifts with a 2 hour commute each way. I basically work and sleep. What little free time I do have I’d like to try and distract myself from the disaster that is my marriage. Second, reading all of the different theories and assumptions like this is a murder mystery board is not doing anything helpful to my mind. Ideas that I would not have come up with are now burning through my mind like a wild fire after being suggested here. I lied, 3 reasons. If I’m going to divorce my wife then what is the point in coming back here? Just to post and make myself more miserable and rub it in my own face? It also gets to the point that there is so much that has happened and come to light that I don't know what I want to/should share and what is useless information or shouldn't be shared).
> 
> My wife is staying with my parents, which I have mentioned. I am not able to access call records, I think that is an American thing like polygraphs. I have asked Dan if he is still in communication with my wife and he has said no. They communicated after xyz but it has stopped. I asked Dan’s brother if he knows if they are still communicating (those brothers are very close) and he said he hasn’t. When I asked 3 friends how long the affair has been going on the general answer was that they were shocked that it could have been going on longer than that one night. My wife calls and texts me every day. She wants to meet and talk, come home. The two times we have tried to talk she cries so much that the conversation goes no where. My wife is telling me that she will do whatever I want her to and will tell me anything. After asking, some things I wish I didn’t hear.
> 
> Apparently Dan has said he’d **** my wife and called her a MILF on at least a few occasions when he was wasted (when my wife and I were not present). He was corrected and told to have some respect, but I wasn’t filled it. He also said it the night my wife did what she did, but my wife wasn’t in the room at the time. She admitted to hearing it, but didn’t hear who it was directed at. I heard from two sources, one being my wife, that Dan told her he wouldn’t have left her there alone and would have told work to **** off. Something I wouldn’t think much of if it were not for comments on this post. My wife told me that Dan has said other comments like that to her, which made her feel like he was better. Comments like he’d be a more attentive father, he’d spend more time with them, he’d listen more, etc. Dan is a clingy dude. Every time he gets a new girlfriend he stops talking to everyone and gives every minute to the new woman. My wife and I could fight all day about the amount of time we spend together. When I’m out of the house 16 hours a day extra time is a difficult to find. Regardless of what he said to her or not, she still chose to throw away our marriage and **** him. She said in the moment for a second she thought he’d be a better dad. If I hadn’t read comments here, I wouldn’t think anything of the comments he made to her other than he’s a ****.
> 
> I have asked my wife why she could barely have sex with me but could do it with him and why she let him come in her. At the rate the conversation was going she didn’t give me a response and to be fair I didn’t really give her time to. Our sex life has always been a bit different. It took her 2 years to have sex of any sort with me or be naked around me. After that she was very nervous and uncomfortable. She just recently started telling me what she likes and what feels good. The sex has always been painful for her. Her description of the pain is that it feels like a muscle stretching. Even just a finger hurts her and is very tight to get in. It’s not uncomfortable for me at all, opposite. She gets no pleasure for any sort of vaginal penetration. Certain position, like doggy, go to deep and hurts her. It doesn’t matter how much foreplay we do or how turned on she is. The pain became a lot worse after our child was born. I’m not larger than “average” but not crazy well endowed by any means. I don’t think size is the problem, seeing as a finger hurts. So if sex hurts so bad when we do it, why didn’t it hurt when she cheated on me? She doesn’t like when I come in her because she doesn’t like that it drips back out and makes a mess. We were having sex more often when I’d pull out. I guess she didn’t care if it was his sperm dripping from her.
> 
> I do get pissed off by the comments about my wife being crazy, damaged, broken, never should of married her, etc. I hate her, but she is still my wife. I hate that I married her, but for different reasons. She is still the woman that I fell in love with, married and created a family with. 90% of the time she acts like a typical person and she has come a long way from where she was when we first met. She has small quirks, such as I can’t touch her in certain spots or she can’t watch shows with rape (Game of Thrones for example). If someone rings the doorbell she has an anxiety attack and won’t answer the door. Most of the time at home though she is a typical adult, unless I have people over. When we go out to a movie, shopping, etc. she is fine unless there is a group of men or men of a certain race. There are many things that get to her but she keeps them hidden easily. Some situations are worse for her. She is not crazy and is not a walking disaster.
> 
> We started off as friends. Her best friend was dating mine and we met that way. We started talking over some sort of social media and clicked well. She was studying overseas for 2 semesters and we talked everyday, all day and skipped all night. I fell in love with her before I met her and really saw all of her “quirks”. If we had got together right away, then maybe I would have been scared off because she was a lot worse then. She was different than any of the other women I had been with in a long time. My previous girlfriends I knew I’d never marry, even when we had been together for years. My wife, I knew I was going to marry her. She’s beautiful. She’s smart, she has a PhD and she’s great at what she does. She was one of the sweetest people that I knew. I use to say that she was kind and giving.




Jdr8

I don't think anyone has posted here maliciously, instead it's different perspectives that you may not be seeing through your pain. I know I personally find it hard to believe that someone with anxiety, can't come out of her room with friends over, partially disrobes then has sex when anyone could have walked into the living room. If she had anxiety as bad as you say, won't have sex with you for two years, suddenly becomes over her anxiety to disrobe in front nine males then have sex with one, not even in a bedroom, your wife has a lot to explain here. Anxiety doesn't just disappear with drinking, in fact many people with anxiety become paranoid when drunk, but your wife becomes the opposite. 

Next you have to overcome how Dan and your wife spoke bad of you. That he was a better father, better husband, would treat you better, this is just something I have an issue with as well. Surely your wife can see that you work twelve hours, have an hour commute each way, yet she believes this is to be held against you? Jdr8, not only is she anxious, but pretty oblivious to what you do for your family. 

You have a tough choice ahead of you, a choice I will support you in, but I would be filing for divorce just to give a consequence. You can always stop the divorce, if you choose to, but you need to make a statement to your wife. I wish I had done this, would have woke my wife up just after dday. 

As for her therapist, I still believe she needs to find someone different. You say she's come a long way but if she urinates in a room other then a bathroom, it doesn't sound like much progress has been made. In your update you said she is very anxious around crowds of men, yet what she did screams the opposite. I'll stay in a room when friends come over and your here, but if you leave I'll partially disrobe, get drunk, and then cheat on you. Regardless of being anxious, not having any other mental disorder, your wife really loosened up without you. And all of this is totally uncharacteristic to how she has been with you for years. Do you find anything wrong about this? As very suspicious? I can't even tell you how full of rage I would be, and that would include a meeting with Dan face to face. In no uncertain terms would Dan know what I would be capable of doing. I also believe there is far more she is not telling you about this one incident, I suggest you have a talk with your wife. Furthermore, tell your wife to shove the tears, either she answers all or you are done. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Taxman

I will tell you man, that if I was presented with the load of bull-cookies that she handed you, my first urge would be to show her the door. Oh, she got drunk. I have been blind drunk, and have NEVER slept with anyone other than my wife. I have been in a room with single women, and no other men, and I was drunk. I did not put my hand down anyone's pants, nor did I have sex with anyone. She needs to be shocked into another reality. I do not care if she is a delicate snowflake. She fvcked your now ex friend, and as you are getting trickle truthed, you will find she wanted to, and now she realizes that she has just screwed herself fully, and prays that you view her as so damned delicate and fragile that you will just suck it up and move forward. DO NOT GIVE HER THAT CHANCE.

You do not have to have any revenge, but put this thought in her head: You did it, and you opened the marriage. What do you think I should do? Think I should sleep with someone else too? Leave that thought ruminating in her consciousness. See how she reacts.

Remember, this is a bone in your throat that will not go away. She has wrecked the marriage and is trading on your sympathy to keep you at home.


----------



## harrybrown

Find someone that likes sex with you and not your "friend" Dan.

Tell her to go to Dan.

just give you the D and get out of your life. Have her sign over 51% of child custody, a post nup and an easy D. 

they can have each other. She is not remorseful. She kept in contact with him, even after the A. She still want him and thinks nice things of him. after he spent years screwing you over.

She wants to **** him again.

She likes sex with him.

This is your chance to get her out of your life. TAKE IT.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@jdr8,
Thanks for the update, it helps squelch the ruminations.
I admire your self control. If I was in your shoes Dan would be looking to disappear on his own, with the full knowledge that I'd help him disappear if he didn't.
After more trickle truth and considering all the things you would have to overcome to reconcile, I don't see how you could do it and maintain any modicum of self respect. I'm rooting for you 100%, just do what is best for you now and in the long run. So far you've handled this incredibly ****ty situation extremely well.


----------



## eric1

Jdr8,

Can you detail the nature of their communication before and after that night?

Thanks man


----------



## skerzoid

Skerzoid's 10 Commandments 
1.) DNA your child.
2.) Inform good buddy Dan's GF.
3.) Get in touch with a solicitor.
4.) File if you haven't already.
5.) She has to write a complete timeline or you never speak to her again. 
6.) Polygraph.
7.) Get yourself into therapy.
8.) Stay Hydrated.
9.) Avoid Alcohol.
10.) Stay on TAM to receive excellent counseling during this **** blizzard that she has put you in.


----------



## sokillme

OP isn't coming back I think.


----------



## skerzoid

sokillme said:


> OP isn't coming back I think.


That may be but he posted yesterday morning. That's not so long ago.


----------



## Wolfman1968

VibrantWings said:


> Great post. I've been married twice, lived with a man for 5 1/2 years and have had some BF's in between them all. NONE...not a damn one, again I say NONE would have been so arrogant or stupid as to leave me alone with NINE drunk men because he was more worried about the property than me.


I believe it was 8 men and one woman.


----------



## turnera

She'll do anything? Great. Set her up in a different home for a year. See what she does in that year. At the end of the year, you can decide if she's done enough to prove she'll never do it again.

And if she's not willing to do that, then you have your answer.


----------



## RandomDude

"Dan" would be in a wheelchair at this point, and "wife" would definitely be soon-to-be ex as well. She doesn't sound remorseful at all.

If you give in to her, it will only encourage her to keep cheating. Unless you want to continue being cuckolded, you have no choice but to divorce her. She has forced your hand.


----------



## Taxman

Wife and Dan would be tied to chairs and sitting under a large buzzard that sh!ts on them regularly. Meanwhile they'd be watching as you have a lovely life with a wife that isn't missing a few screws to begin with, that won't take a sip of booze and jump on the first guy's wang.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I may have missed this in the thread. Did your W get pregnant with Dan's child? You had mentioned earlier that you were trying and that Dan went bareback.


----------



## MAJDEATH

A continued separation right now is probably the best thing, until you figure out how you want to proceed. Let the Ph.D ponder that for a few months.

And maybe let her believe that you went out and met up with an old female "friend", and something "just happened" that you weren't planning. But it's OK, you only had sex for less than a minute and pulled out, but spent the rest of the night laying naked together. You promise not to see her again, but still send the occasional text to ask how she's doing.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

RandomDude said:


> "Dan" would be in a wheelchair at this point, and "wife" would definitely be soon-to-be ex as well. She doesn't sound remorseful at all.
> 
> If you give in to her, it will only encourage her to keep cheating. Unless you want to continue being cuckolded, you have no choice but to divorce her. She has forced your hand.


 I agree, and if by some miracle after the divorce is finalized and complete, if she can earn back your trust and respect THEN you can try a new relationship, but I'd say the odds of you ever trusting or respecting her again are slim indeed.


----------



## VibrantWings

Wolfman1968 said:


> I believe it was 8 men and one woman.


Lol, well that just makes everything okay then, eh? :nerd:

Oh my...


----------



## Wolfman1968

VibrantWings said:


> Lol, well that just makes everything okay then, eh? :nerd:
> 
> Oh my...


First, I merely wanted this to be accurate. The OP stated that it was supposed to be 10 people, two couples (him and his wife) and 6 other male friends. The other couple was still there after he was called away.

And I think there is a different dynamic when there is her and another couple. Maybe not the same as if it was her and 4 other couples, but I think it is different from just her as the lone female.

Also, if the people had bothered to read the OP's description of evening (which apparently they didn't, if they claimed she was the only female), they would note he went into detail even about the seating arrangement--how his wife was sitting between the other female and "Dan" as things moved to the high point of the evening--the "cozy" time. Again, that additional female DID matter since the ONLY male she was having such contact with was Dan. The same guy who, coincidentally, was so lovingly holding her child on so many repeated visits to the marital home as he bad-mouthed the OP as a father. The same guy who, coincidentally, she admits she felt attracted to for MONTHS prior to that fateful evening. The same guy with whom the OP's non-drinking wife now feels comfortable to now have several drinks with, and even fall asleep with. And then, after waking up, having slept it off a bit, he becomes the same guy she cheats with.

So yeah, I think the presence of another couple instead of her being the lone female DOES change the dynamic. Of course it's not the same as an all-couple environment, but also it's not the same as an all-male environment either.


----------



## TaDor

As posted by someone with anxiety issues. She has gone with the flow, to avoid saying "no". Taking years to get to where she is today, etc.

If this story is for real and the OP has had a long relationship with someone who has such mental illness - then he should be able to understand things are wonky. I mean, pooping in a bedroom to avoid people is NOT normal. Seems to be a lot of anger.

So Divorce her and move on. Let her have Dan and find new friends.


----------



## Chuck71

Dannyo spun a very complex web. Your STBXW knew exactly what

he was doing, and allowed it to manifest. If she allows him to woo her,

who else has she / will she allow? Not that the cheating was bad enough...

she entertained the idea of him being a better H, better father. There is no

telling what else was said to "belittle" you. You are aware whether this is true

or not.... that is a given. Just the fact.... her contemplating this.... and that 

remark went a long way in her banging him. She missed the part where the

man of cloth stated -forsaking all others- She may very well have a mental 

illness.... but it is not to be used as a crutch. You appear to have made up 

your mind. A D is hard, no way around it. Went through mine almost five 

years ago.... bout when I came here. As I have said hundreds of times, -I deeply

loved my XW at one time. I will always love who she WAS, not who she IS-

In our 15 year run.... if I was good to her 90% of the time but did things 10%

of the time that broke her heart.... she would have D me and I would not have

blamed her. Co-parent with the child as best as possible, try for 50 / 50 time.

And...... maybe......just maybe.... in 2021 you could possibly consider dating 

again. Always remember... when she cries, boo hoos, says she will do what 

ever you want her to do to make things right......... SHE should be proactive in

this and seek help for herself. YOU should not have to tell HER to. Seeking

help works 100x better when the person needing it, decides to do so on their own,

not to be asked to. That is usually the difference in regret and remorse.


----------



## Windwalker

Just so I am not missing anything.

Your wife has major anxiety issues, but still managed to get a PHD.

Her anxiety problems so severe that she has **** in a bucket and pissed in a pot to avoid your friends before.

She has harbored the tingles for your friend and allowed him to bad mouth you.

She wouldn't have sexual contact with you for 2 years during the dating phase of your relationship, but ****s your buddy dry the first time he makes a move.

Has issues with vaginally pain with you and rips the skin off your hide, but doesn't seem to have any issues with Dan the man giving her the smack down. 

She doesn't like the icky part of sex with you, but let's him harpoon her and willingly takes the loadand doesn't mind it running down her crack. Take make matters worse, the two of you are trying for another kid.

Has the audacity to tell you that she thought he would be a better father than you for your child. By the way, have you done that DNA test yet?

Has trickle truthed you and is not forthcoming in information.

I'm not going to candy coat this man. I have read a lot of ****ed up posts on this site. I have read about wives that totally despised their husbands, and didn't treat them as badly as you are getting treated.

Those are the important facts. Facts that came from your fingers.

2 questions.
#1. If this is how the woman that supposedly loves you treats you, what the hell do you let your enemies do?
#2. Why exactly do you want to be with this woman?

Now for my opinion. I know exactly what I would do, but this is just me. I can't live your life.

I would drop her ass like it was a mouldy piece of cheese. I would get the nastiest shark of an attorney I could find and let them do all the dirty work.

I would have that kid of mine DNA tested, like yesterday.

I would calmly explain to Dan that if I ever seen his face again that I would cripple him for the rest of his natural life, after I ripped his **** off and fed it to him. The promise of misery beyond his worst nightmares is probably enough to make him piss himself. 

I would tell the rest of my so called friends to hit the road and don't ever darken my doorstep with their presence EVER AGAIN!

I would definitely tell my parents that they could have her. So ****ing much for blood being thicker than water.

Man, you got served a **** sandwich to beat most **** sandwiches. Cold hard facts! It's you and your kid, that's it. The faster you realize that the better off you will be. You had every single person turn their back on you. You had damn well unleash that lion inside or these people will eat you, period!

I wish you the best. I truly do.


----------



## TRy

Wolfman1968 said:


> First, I merely wanted this to be accurate. The OP stated that it was supposed to be 10 people, two couples (him and his wife) and 6 other male friends.


 Actually if you want "to be accurate" the OP did not say that there were "supposed to be 10 people, two couples (him and his wife) and 6 other male friends" like you incorrectly stated. What the OP said in the very first post was that "10 friends came up (9 men and ones wife)". Note that the OP said that 10 friends "came up", which when add in the OP and the OP's wife meant that there was a total of 12 people until the OP left; for a total of 11 people after the OP left, the OP's wife, plus 9 men and another wife (2 women, plus 9 men). 

You should also note that unbeknownst to the other wife's husband, the other woman that was there had cheated on her then fiancée (now husband) in a hot tub in full view of this same group (including the OP) at another such overnight gathering. In other words, everyone knew that the only other woman there was in no position to call anyone else out for inappropriate behavior, for fear that someone would tell her husband about her past cheating.


----------



## MarriedAHooker

Windwalker said:


> Just so I am not missing anything.
> 
> Your wife has major anxiety issues, but still managed to get a PHD.
> 
> Her anxiety problems so severe that she has **** in a bucket and pissed in a pot to avoid your friends before.
> 
> She has harbored the tingles for your friend and allowed him to bad mouth you.
> 
> She wouldn't have sexual contact with you for 2 years during the dating phase of your relationship, but ****s your buddy dry the first time he makes a move.
> 
> Has issues with vaginally pain with you and rips the skin off your hide, but doesn't seem to have any issues with Dan the man giving her the smack down.
> 
> She doesn't like the icky part of sex with you, but let's him harpoon her and willingly takes the loadand doesn't mind it running down her crack. Take make matters worse, the two of you are trying for another kid.
> 
> Has the audacity to tell you that she thought he would be a better father than you for your child. By the way, have you done that DNA test yet?
> 
> Has trickle truthed you and is not forthcoming in information.
> 
> I'm not going to candy coat this man. I have read a lot of ****ed up posts on this site. I have read about wives that totally despised their husbands, and didn't treat them as badly as you are getting treated.
> 
> Those are the important facts. Facts that came from your fingers.
> 
> 2 questions.
> #1. If this is how the woman that supposedly loves you treats you, what the hell do you let your enemies do?
> #2. Why exactly do you want to be with this woman?
> 
> Now for my opinion. I know exactly what I would do, but this is just me. I can't live your life.
> 
> I would drop her ass like it was a mouldy piece of cheese. I would get the nastiest shark of an attorney I could find and let them do all the dirty work.
> 
> I would have that kid of mine DNA tested, like yesterday.
> 
> I would calmly explain to Dan that if I ever seen his face again that I would cripple him for the rest of his natural life. After I ripped his **** off and fed it to him.
> 
> I would tell the rest of my so called friends to hit the road and don't ever darken my doorstep with their presence EVER AGAIN!
> 
> I would definitely tell my parents that they could have her. So ****ing much for blood being thicker than water.
> 
> Man, you got served a **** sandwich to beat most **** sandwiches. Cold hard facts! It's you and your kid, that's it. The faster you realize that the better off you will be. You had every single person turn their back on you. You had damn well unleash that lion inside or these people will eat you, period!
> 
> I wish you the best. I truly do.


that Windwalker guy sure is a ball of rage.. agree on teh DNA test toh


----------



## TDSC60

Bottom line is that she did what she did because she had a growing attraction to Dan for years and she wanted to have sex with him.

She was presented with the opportunity to have what she lusted after and she took it. Simple.

You, the marriage, your child - were not considered.


----------



## Windwalker

MarriedAHooker said:


> that Windwalker guy sure is a ball of rage.. agree on teh DNA test toh


Lol.
What you may perceive as a ball of rage, I happen to believe is cold, hard, calculated and efficient. When everyone is your life turns their back on you and tries their best to make sure their interests are protected, then you learn quickly to either fight or lay down and take it.

His friends left him hanging. One of them ****ed his wife.

His wife cheated on him.

His parents want him to take her back and are currently harboring her. 9 times out of 10, to protect their time with the grandchildren.

All of the individuals mentioned in this dialog have **** on him in some form or another. What exactly did I miss?

Sorry, my name's not Willy Wonka. I don't do candy coating.


----------



## TRy

Windwalker said:


> What you may perceive as a ball of rage, I happen to believe is cold, hard, calculated and efficient.


 I was about to like the post in question until I read the part where you said "I would calmly explain to Dan that if I ever seen his face again that I would cripple him for the rest of his natural life. After I ripped his **** off and fed it to him." There is nothing "cold, hard, calculated and efficient" in going to jail, especially when you factor in the fact that this would needlessly give you wife a ton of legal advantages in a divorce. The rest of the post was on target.


----------



## Windwalker

TRy said:


> I was about to like the post in question until I read the part where you said "I would calmly explain to Dan that if I ever seen his face again that I would cripple him for the rest of his natural life. After I ripped his **** off and fed it to him." There is nothing "cold, hard, calculated and efficient" in going to jail, especially when you factor in the fact that this would needlessly give you wife a ton of legal advantages in a divorce. The rest of the post was on target.


Thanks for pointing that out. I should probably clarify that the promise to feed him his **** would happen the next time I saw his face. I'm not about giving people advantages that they most definitely do not deserve.


----------



## VibrantWings

MarriedAHooker said:


> that Windwalker guy sure is a ball of rage.. agree on teh DNA test toh


If you hadn't just married a hooker I could have fallen in love with you in one post  

I'm still chuckling btw...


----------



## Mr Blunt

jDR8
It seems to me that undeniable facts are:

1	She has admired Dan for a long time
2	She said that Dan would be a better father
3	She chooses to have sex with Dan because she wanted to. All the other reasons are trivial
4	She allowed Dan to come in her. She does not want you to come in her.
5	She was naked with Dan under the blankets for hours even though other men were in the house. She does not like to be naked with you.
6	She was in her bra around many men
7	She lied to you several times
8	She replaced you with Dan for sex that night.
9	She rejected you and your child so that she could feed her ego or get her sex desires stimulated for a short time.
10	As you have stated “she has quirks”

It seems that you have at least two decisions to make in the next few weeks or months.* The first is, if she is somehow able to start to get you to trust her and make you number one with the exclusion to all other men, are you willing to R?*
*The second is, would you be better off getting a Divorce?* Of course you will suffer for a few month, some men take years, then rebuilding your life without her?

*I know you see some really good points in her but do the good points outweigh the bad?*

Even if her good points outweigh the bad, can you take the emotional pain that you have and will probably have lesser pain in the years to come if you do a lot work on this issue?


*I think at this point you would do yourself a big favor if you got way by yourself, contacted some real good professional therapist and counselors and answer the most important question of “would you be better with her or without her?*”


----------



## Wolfman1968

TRy said:


> Actually if you want "to be accurate" the OP did not say that there were "supposed to be 10 people, two couples (him and his wife) and 6 other male friends" like you incorrectly stated. What the OP said in the very first post was that "10 friends came up (9 men and ones wife)". Note that the OP said that 10 friends "came up", which when add in the OP and the OP's wife meant that there was a total of 12 people until the OP left; for a total of 11 people after the OP left, the OP's wife, plus 9 men and another wife (2 women, plus 9 men).
> .


I stand corrected on the total number being 12, not 10, but still believe that the dynamic with another couple is different than if she was the lone female. Even if that other female was a cheater before her marriage, the dynamic is still different. Especially with the cozy seating arrangement I alluded to that the OP described.


----------



## jdr8

My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done. 

She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


----------



## SunCMars

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. *I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her,* which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. *I hate her right now and I want her to hurt.* She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


You hate her?

This is why you should just divorce her. You have lowered yourself too much. Three much.

I do not blame you for the hate. I would hate her also.

.................................................................................................................................

Note-

*On your' "I too cheated" comment:
*
This was 'said' to me, in haste, in a rage.....later retracted, denied. It ruined all my wife's real and credible arguments [as I had never cheated].
She regretted it. I have never forgotten those words....thirty years later.

If you did 'indeed' cheat earlier...you have no legs.
You cut them off yourself.

And you no longer have my sympathy.


----------



## GusPolinski

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


Geezy Chreezy.

This sounds so exhausting.

Anyway, I do think you should divorce, and I say that for a couple of reasons:

1. You seem way too angry for reconciliation. Sorry man, but you’re just not cut out for it.

2. You’re never going to have a healthy husband/wife marriage dynamic with your wife. She’s just not capable of it.

The best that you can realistically hope for is daddy/daughter, and there’s going to be way too much “warden” involved for you to be able to pull it off long term, and that’s assuming it doesn’t progress to full on “pimp” (i.e. hotwife, swinging, etc).

Do the both of you a favor and move forward with divorce.


----------



## SunCMars

LosingHim said:


> Because she was drunk. Alcohol = relaxation. Dependent on why it hurts with OP. If it hurts because she’s tense and uncomfortable with them having sex her yoohoo is going to slam shut and make it hurt. If she was as drunk as we think, relaxation could have made her relaxed enough “down there” to make it smooth sailing. *A lot of women are able to do anal for the same reason when they are drinking*.


Gawd...

TMI.

Even my runner's heart can go squirrelly.

Excess alcohol can be a physical excuse for bad behavior. Not a moral excuse.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

jdr8 said:


> I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever.


 This was a big mistake. You just lost the moral high ground and didn't even commit the act to lose it. She will never believe a retraction, so even if you could reconcile (no way I could in your situation) she will have resentment towards you, the same as you have towards her. Do yourself a time-saving favor and get the divorce.


----------



## Evinrude58

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


I don't know what to say, but it sounds like you are in a rage. You have got to stop raging and get a handle on yourself. If you don't, your wife is going to eventually leave. It's clear by your rage that you don't want that. Give her some consequences, but don't act crazy. Nobody can deal with that.


----------



## Primrose

What is the point in living this way?


----------



## Satya

If you hate her, just divorce. Hate is a strong word. 

Unless you like her to live under your thumb unhappily and in shame?

Telling you cheated when you didn't (assuming you didn't) was a low blow, to your own self. Do you feel better for saying it and watching her reaction. Again, a sign you are angry and hate her. 

Just let her go, you'll both be less upset.


----------



## alte Dame

Your wife's life experience and personality almost ensure that her social development will be skewed. When a d-bag 'friend' flatters her, this is something she is not at all used to. Instead, she is used to people thinking she is weird and staying away from her.

But that creep had no problem saying things to her that other people wouldn't say. And she fell for it. It's like a young teenager falling for the catcalls of truck drivers because they flatter the very fragile, socially-immature ego.

A person like your wife doesn't naturally have healthy boundaries. Her personality restricts her so much with anxiety and fear that those are usually boundaries enough. So when she was flattered by POS Dan, her natural defenses failed her.

This may be unpopular here, but I hope that you will try to reconcile. Your ex-friend is a POS player who took advantage of a socially incapable person. I don't believe that this is an excuse for your wife's behavior, but I think she is being honest in what she tells you. I think she is trainable - as you say, she has a PhD and has gotten much better over the years re her social anxiety - and can learn how to have good boundaries.

I'm not a fan of cheaters, by any means, but I absolutely believe that people can change. With true remorse, change can happen, imo. None of us can tell if she is feeling remorse or regret, but it seems like a real possibility that she is sincere in the feelings she expresses to you.

If you decide to try to R, then IC before MC & clear consequences for her (transparency, reading appropriate sources like 'How to help your spouse heal from your affair' and following the guidelines, etc.).

You are in the driver's seat, OP. I wish you the best no matter what you decide.


----------



## alte Dame

Oh, and as for Danny Boy. Lest you think that I am reflexively 'turn the other cheek,' I would find some way to deliver some consequences to him.

Nothing illegal. Nothing violent. Nothing dangerous. If it were me, I would probably opt for some mind****ery, e.g., letting some of the 'friend' group know that I plan to 'answer back.' He won't know when, how, or where. It might come tomorrow or 10 years from now, but he should know that it's coming.

And then I would do nothing. I would let him twist in the wind just waiting for something terrible to happen to him.


----------



## jdr8

alte Dame said:


> Your wife's life experience and personality almost ensure that her social development will be skewed. When a d-bag 'friend' flatters her, this is something she is not at all used to. Instead, she is used to people thinking she is weird and staying away from her.
> 
> But that creep had no problem saying things to her that other people wouldn't say. And she fell for it. It's like a young teenager falling for the catcalls of truck drivers because they flatter the very fragile, socially-immature ego.
> 
> A person like your wife doesn't naturally have healthy boundaries. Her personality restricts her so much with anxiety and fear that those are usually boundaries enough. So when she was flattered by POS Dan, her natural defenses failed her.
> 
> This may be unpopular here, but I hope that you will try to reconcile. Your ex-friend is a POS player who took advantage of a socially incapable person. I don't believe that this is an excuse for your wife's behavior, but I think she is being honest in what she tells you. I think she is trainable - as you say, she has a PhD and has gotten much better over the years re her social anxiety - and can learn how to have good boundaries.
> 
> I'm not a fan of cheaters, by any means, but I absolutely believe that people can change. With true remorse, change can happen, imo. None of us can tell if she is feeling remorse or regret, but it seems like a real possibility that she is sincere in the feelings she expresses to you.
> 
> If you decide to try to R, then IC before MC & clear consequences for her (transparency, reading appropriate sources like 'How to help your spouse heal from your affair' and following the guidelines, etc.).
> 
> You are in the driver's seat, OP. I wish you the best no matter what you decide.


So I've been told by two shrinks.


----------



## alte Dame

Ah, well....


----------



## Chuck71

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


Uncontrolled rage....... you will burn yourself up inside. Not healthy at all.

You squandered your trump card by saying you cheated. Now you are at her level, in her eyes.

Playing prison warden..... is that what you really want? You want to hurt her? Ok....

DIVORCE HER. Walk the hell away. Let her punishment be losing you forever.

I would not recommend a R.... this is way too much push / pull. When a person is angry, acting

upon emotion.... they leave themselves VERY vulnerable. You're one angry outburst away

from pushing her or hitting her and that will land you in the clink.

Do you want your daughter to view her mom living like a prisoner...... a normal life?


----------



## Diana7

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.



I find it strange that you are so angry with these other people and have cut them out of you life, yet the one who was most at fault because she was married, you are still living with. I know its easier to put most of the blame on the OM, but he wasn't married and she was. 

Also did you say that you had sex with someone else as vengence? How is that any better than what she has done?


----------



## LosingHim

Now I feel really bad for your wife.

That's off the deep end man. She messed up, yeah, big time. But she's still a human being.


----------



## Primrose

Just let her go. The only way to reconcile is if you intend to try to forgive over time. I don't see this as your plan. I see you using this as constant leverage to hurt her in the future.


----------



## turnera

Frequent therapy or consistent therapy? There's a big difference.

And if I were her, I wouldn't be staying with you no matter how remorseful I am.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Do is she doing you every day now? Not complaining of pain? Letting you come inside? Walking around you naked? Look you can babysit her all you like but how has she shown you she wants you more than him?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


Dude just move on. What kind of life is that? It's not like she is the only women in the world. Go find someone who is not so broken and let her go live with her parents and try to develop new boundaries with someone else. Seriously life is too short. I don't get the point.

Your life would be so much better if you took time to heal an then one day had a relationship with a healthy adult who was into you. Why are you settling for so little.


----------



## TaDor

Seems like jdr8 has had is own issues for quite a while. With so many years with such a damaged person - with no understanding she can do the thing she did/does. 
Then cheating on her? Or saying you did - what difference does that mean to her?

You seem like a mean person - beyond just angry. Perhaps that is why she IS still hiding in rooms crapping in pots?

Best thing you can do - is divorce her. Let her family help her. 
And you get your own therapy before you ever start a relationship with another human being.

Questions were asked, which I don't think where answered?

Why did you marry her? With her issues, that she would be marriage material?

Oh well.

Move on. You both are miserable and you are in no condition to R. And she shouldn't even accept R from you.


----------



## aine

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


Removing those 'friends' from your life is a great start, sounds like you not in control again, good for you. Are either of you in IC? Maybe you should consider it first, work on yourselves before the marriage?


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## TDSC60

Your wife has been interested in Dan for years. She finally got the opportunity, she got drunk enough to act on her desires.

But all you are doing now is designed to punish her, to make her feel pain. That will not lead to healing for either of you.

Divorce her if you cannot get over what she did and if you cannot imagine a real marriage to her in the future. But telling her you f**ked another women and keeping her basically a prisoner in your home is not helping anyone.


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## Taxman

What was her reaction to you saying that you slept with someone else? While many do not consider that to be a good indicator, it will show her level of remorse. I reacted by saying to her, yes, I deserved that.


----------



## *Deidre*

jdr8 said:


> My wife is in frequent therapy. We are living together again because I want to watch every move that she makes. She doesn't get her phone or computer. I put a gps tracker in her car. I put a voice recorder in 3 rooms of our house. I had cameras installed at the front and back doors that alert my cell phone to any movement. She's sleeping on the couch. She has rules to follow to a T. I told her that I ****ed someone else, just to hurt her, which I may regret but whatever. I've had words with Dan and everyone who has witnessed him flirting with her over the years and making comments about wanting to **** her, and didn't say a damn thing to me. I have removed those people from my life. I made her tell anyone who didn't already know, what she had done.
> 
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it. I hate her right now and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do.


So, you're going to turn into an emotional abuser to 'teach her a lesson.' Why are you both staying together? This isn't love, this is co dependence. I get that you're hurt, and I abhor cheating, but what kind of a life is this for either of you?


----------



## VladDracul

I think if I was writing this story, I'd have the husband turning up the heat to full blown imprisonment of his wife, fettering her plans to run away with Dan. But Dan, the true love of her life, after being set up by the husband on a failed drug smuggling charge, helps the wife escape for her prison and they go to California and start a medical marijuana business. Meanwhile, the husband is caught red handed with drugs he used to set up Dan.


----------



## TDSC60

VladDracul said:


> I think if I was writing this story, I'd have the husband turning up the heat to full blown imprisonment of his wife, fettering her plans to run away with Dan. But Dan, the true love of her life, after being set up by the husband on a failed drug smuggling charge, helps the wife escape for her prison and they go to California and start a medical marijuana business. Meanwhile, the husband is caught red handed with drugs he used to set up Dan.


You left out the car chase through the streets of NYC. And the miraculous escape from injury while in a hail of bullets from 5 or more drug gang members who, despite firing automatic weapons, cannot seem to hit anything more than 5 feet away.


----------



## bigfoot

You don't have a wife, you have a hostage! SERIOUSLY, you are going to have to take it down several notches. I say this, hoping that it won't be taken the wrong way, but punishing her and controlling her and lashing out like this IS NOT HEALTHY. I read news stories about guys who get so angry that they want to hurt their "offending" wife, and it always is in a bad context...if you know what I mean.

Get yourself to counseling right away. I am sorry that she kissed another man. I am sorry that another man openly flirted with your wife. I am sorry that people did not let you know what was going on right under your nose or behind your back. That really sucks. Still....

She is an individual who does not have to do your bidding. You all do not have to remain married. You don't have to forgive. You do, however, have to respect the fact that she is a person with free will and that a consequence of hurting you is that the relationship is over AND NOT EVER that you will hurt her and ruin her life and hold her hostage. 

Fidelity is supposed to happen and reasonable to expect. When they fail, fix it and stay or leave.


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## TaDor

Rather than cameras, GPS, VARs, lock and key... Why not make it easier and get your wife this? Some are nice, built out of wood so they look good in the living room.


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## JustTheFacts

.


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## ButtPunch

You guys are getting a little carried away


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## jdr8

I’m not holding her ****ing hostage. Give me a break. She is free to leave whenever she wants. If she brings another man into our house I’ll know about it. If she drives to another mans house I’ll know about it. She is choosing to stay in our house and reconcile. Jesus ****ing christ. She chooses to stay. She chooses to follow rules. She chooses to sleep on the couch and not even try coming to our bed. She chooses to have sex. She chooses to ass kiss and try and make it up to me. 

I didn’t cheat on her. I told her that I did to hurt her. She cried a lot, wanted to know who it was, how many times, why. She knew she couldn’t be mad. Like I said, that’s something that I may regret. 

Is it wrong that I say and do things to hurt her, yes. She ****ed my friend. Nothing will trump that. She knows that. If she didn’t want to fix it she wouldn’t be sitting in this house. So no I’m not keeping her as a ****ing hostage. She is choosing to make it up to me. Maybe at some point I’ll be able to trust her and like her again. What, you’d rather I let it slide so she can keep getting **** on the side?


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## sokillme

What is the payoff though. Do you think you are going to have a happy healthy relationship considering her mental health issues and all this water under the bridge now?


----------



## TX-SC

Choosing to R is really a difficult decision, but if you do, you'll have to forgive her first. Don't ever forget, but don't hang it over her head for the rest of your life. It's not fair to you OR her to do do. That's a decision you'll need to make at some point. If you love your wife and she is truly remorseful, then R. If you think you can never trust her again and you don't think you can/want to love her again, then divorce. It appears she is truly remorseful, so if you go that route, I doubt this would ever happen again.

Since she is basically giving you anything you want, I would ask for a polygraph and also a paternity test for your child.

Regardless of what you do, the friends need to go. They sound like absolute garbage to me.


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## Chuck71

jdr8 said:


> I’m not holding her ****ing hostage. Give me a break. She is free to leave whenever she wants. If she brings another man into our house I’ll know about it. If she drives to another mans house I’ll know about it. She is choosing to stay in our house and reconcile. Jesus ****ing christ. She chooses to stay. She chooses to follow rules. She chooses to sleep on the couch and not even try coming to our bed. She chooses to have sex. She chooses to ass kiss and try and make it up to me.
> 
> I didn’t cheat on her. I told her that I did to hurt her. She cried a lot, wanted to know who it was, how many times, why. She knew she couldn’t be mad. Like I said, that’s something that I may regret.
> 
> Is it wrong that I say and do things to hurt her, yes. She ****ed my friend. Nothing will trump that. She knows that. If she didn’t want to fix it she wouldn’t be sitting in this house. So no I’m not keeping her as a ****ing hostage. She is choosing to make it up to me. Maybe at some point I’ll be able to trust her and like her again. What, you’d rather I let it slide so she can keep getting **** on the side?


Reason I said walk away...... D full steam ahead. Work on yourself and encourage her

to do the same. Handful of years later, re-visit possibility. Right now you are anger driven.

Anger is best served for torque, not horsepower. To rid the hate, you need to be away

from her. Take away her right to call you her H. Doesn't sound like much to some people....

but it does to others. If she will "do anything," have her accept this. Step one in trying

for a successful R, if that is your long term goal.


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## drifting on

jdr8 said:


> I’m not holding her ****ing hostage. Give me a break. She is free to leave whenever she wants. If she brings another man into our house I’ll know about it. If she drives to another mans house I’ll know about it. She is choosing to stay in our house and reconcile. Jesus ****ing christ. She chooses to stay. She chooses to follow rules. She chooses to sleep on the couch and not even try coming to our bed. She chooses to have sex. She chooses to ass kiss and try and make it up to me.
> 
> I didn’t cheat on her. I told her that I did to hurt her. She cried a lot, wanted to know who it was, how many times, why. She knew she couldn’t be mad. Like I said, that’s something that I may regret.
> 
> Is it wrong that I say and do things to hurt her, yes. She ****ed my friend. Nothing will trump that. She knows that. If she didn’t want to fix it she wouldn’t be sitting in this house. So no I’m not keeping her as a ****ing hostage. She is choosing to make it up to me. Maybe at some point I’ll be able to trust her and like her again. What, you’d rather I let it slide so she can keep getting **** on the side?




Jdr8

I know your anger, your pain, your NEED for justice, and lastly your need to hurt her as she hurt you. But if you decide to hear me out here, you are going to find that what you have done is terrible. I'm thinking you are mad at that last statement, as you said, she banged someone not you. But your lying to her just to create pain is way over the top. Yes, sadly that statement may be the second nail in the coffin to your marriage. You are dealing with someone who has udinated and defacated in a room just to avoid your friends. She also has a Phd, so she's smart on top of that, and has to know how broken she is to do that. Now you add in infidelity, add in you lie to her just to hurt her, and now you have a situation that just became much worse. 

No matter how you try to tell her you didn't sleep with anyone she won't believe it. She won't believe you did it just to cause her pain, instead she is going to go further down into her mental issues. Effectively, you may have broken her beyond repair with your lie, and very possibly ending any chance either of you had for reconciliation. To make matters worse you hate her, and from your posts I can see that hate and tell you I felt it also. I'll explain this later in my post, but you truly do seem to hate her. Let me ask you a question, do you hate her or do you hate what she did or do you hate both? You need to be in IC, so you can separate things in your head and begin to cope like a rational human being. Completely understandable that you would want to destroy your wife, do you really feel any better? I hope you don't, she is a human being, and personally, I wouldn't have allowed her to stay with so many males. For you to think any other way is foolish beyond words.

I could have destroyed my wife terribly, much worse then you did your wife. I could have, but I also knew she was human. I hated my wife for a time, and it will pass, it's just another fleeting emotion a betrayed will feel amongst many fleeting emotions. I hated that I drove my wife to work, so she could be with OM, I hated I drive her home right after she had just banged OM. I hated that she allowed OM to finish in her. I hated that with OM finishing inside her that that produced twins. I hated her for deceiving me about the paternity until the boys were two and a half. I hated all of it, but reality is those were fleeting emotions, emotions that would pass. I spoke at length to my therapist about this, and thankfully I listened to what she said and displayed coping skills not grounded in anger. Your anger is tearing you apart internally, trust me I know that all too well too.

As for justice, tell me what kind of Justice do you think could alleviate your pain in any way? Seeking justice I believe is futile, just not going to find a punishment for the crime committed. I understand you're need for justice, I wanted it too, but really what is there? Jdr8, you are hurting, I see that, it's evident to others as you treat your wife as if she is in a prison. Take a good hard look at yourself here, how can you say your not? You say she can leave at any time she wants, but what is the penalty if she does? You have GPS on her car, VARS in three rooms, and cameras at your doors. That doesn't sound like a prison to you? Does that sound like a normal coping skill to utilize? Guess what, she could still cheat just as easily by saying she's going for a long walk. She can go to her neighbors, use their phone, call Dan, and have him pick her up two blocks away. She can do whatever for two hours and then have Dan drop her off two blocks away and walk in the front door. She could have sex in a park or forest preserve as she has displayed exhibitionist tendencies with your friends, so it must be easier with people you'll never know or see again. In other words there are ways to continue cheating, even though I don't think she would. What I'm trying to show you is that you are being far to hard on her, she is human, and guess what she is going to remember about you down the road. 

Your best way to divorce or reconcile is to be truthful, damn the high road, be human to another human being. Handle this the best you can, cope the best you can, and get yourself help. Process all that has happened, when you get angry walk away, hell, it wasn't long ago I was told to walk away from here, because I let emotions make decisions. Do the same, walk away and compose yourself, then process more of what happened. I'll admit you have quite a bit to process, but your friends weren't your friends is a good place to start. Then process the night that the infidelity occurred, then process what your wife did. Remove the anger from your yourself, and then react from a place of strength. Best of luck to you.


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## arobk

Wow the knives are out. Hardly anyone trying to persuade OP to think about what he is doing and give him better options. Straight to what a horrible person he is. It's been 3 weeks since he found out and he is not anywhere close to thinking reasonable yet. This guy has been catching hell since he first posted about how this whole thing is his fault from some commenters and now he is a jailer. I don't get all the negativity towards the BS in this thread.


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## Diana7

drifting on said:


> Jdr8
> 
> I know your anger, your pain, your NEED for justice, and lastly your need to hurt her as she hurt you. But if you decide to hear me out here, you are going to find that what you have done is terrible. I'm thinking you are mad at that last statement, as you said, she banged someone not you. But your lying to her just to create pain is way over the top. Yes, sadly that statement may be the second nail in the coffin to your marriage. You are dealing with someone who has udinated and defacated in a room just to avoid your friends. She also has a Phd, so she's smart on top of that, and has to know how broken she is to do that. Now you add in infidelity, add in you lie to her just to hurt her, and now you have a situation that just became much worse.
> 
> No matter how you try to tell her you didn't sleep with anyone she won't believe it. She won't believe you did it just to cause her pain, instead she is going to go further down into her mental issues. Effectively, you may have broken her beyond repair with your lie, and very possibly ending any chance either of you had for reconciliation. To make matters worse you hate her, and from your posts I can see that hate and tell you I felt it also. I'll explain this later in my post, but you truly do seem to hate her. Let me ask you a question, do you hate her or do you hate what she did or do you hate both? You need to be in IC, so you can separate things in your head and begin to cope like a rational human being. Completely understandable that you would want to destroy your wife, do you really feel any better? I hope you don't, she is a human being, and personally, I wouldn't have allowed her to stay with so many males. For you to think any other way is foolish beyond words.
> 
> I could have destroyed my wife terribly, much worse then you did your wife. I could have, but I also knew she was human. I hated my wife for a time, and it will pass, it's just another fleeting emotion a betrayed will feel amongst many fleeting emotions. I hated that I drove my wife to work, so she could be with OM, I hated I drive her home right after she had just banged OM. I hated that she allowed OM to finish in her. I hated that with OM finishing inside her that that produced twins. I hated her for deceiving me about the paternity until the boys were two and a half. I hated all of it, but reality is those were fleeting emotions, emotions that would pass. I spoke at length to my therapist about this, and thankfully I listened to what she said and displayed coping skills not grounded in anger. Your anger is tearing you apart internally, trust me I know that all too well too.
> 
> As for justice, tell me what kind of Justice do you think could alleviate your pain in any way? Seeking justice I believe is futile, just not going to find a punishment for the crime committed. I understand you're need for justice, I wanted it too, but really what is there? Jdr8, you are hurting, I see that, it's evident to others as you treat your wife as if she is in a prison. Take a good hard look at yourself here, how can you say your not? You say she can leave at any time she wants, but what is the penalty if she does? You have GPS on her car, VARS in three rooms, and cameras at your doors. That doesn't sound like a prison to you? Does that sound like a normal coping skill to utilize? Guess what, she could still cheat just as easily by saying she's going for a long walk. She can go to her neighbors, use their phone, call Dan, and have him pick her up two blocks away. She can do whatever for two hours and then have Dan drop her off two blocks away and walk in the front door. She could have sex in a park or forest preserve as she has displayed exhibitionist tendencies with your friends, so it must be easier with people you'll never know or see again. In other words there are ways to continue cheating, even though I don't think she would. What I'm trying to show you is that you are being far to hard on her, she is human, and guess what she is going to remember about you down the road.
> 
> Your best way to divorce or reconcile is to be truthful, damn the high road, be human to another human being. Handle this the best you can, cope the best you can, and get yourself help. Process all that has happened, when you get angry walk away, hell, it wasn't long ago I was told to walk away from here, because I let emotions make decisions. Do the same, walk away and compose yourself, then process more of what happened. I'll admit you have quite a bit to process, but your friends weren't your friends is a good place to start. Then process the night that the infidelity occurred, then process what your wife did. Remove the anger from your yourself, and then react from a place of strength. Best of luck to you.




This is an excellent post and I so agree that telling her that you had sex with another women was a really bad idea. You don't trust her and now she doesn't trust you. You need to have a few months apart rather than keeping her in jail.


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## ButtPunch

His anger will subside folks. He made a mistake yes but who doesn't under this kind of duress. 

Get counseling for you and your wife pronto.


----------



## Talker67

Diana7 said:


> This is an excellent post and I so agree that telling her that you had sex with another women was a really bad idea. You don't trust her and now she doesn't trust you. You need to have a few months apart rather than keeping her in jail.


so you both had sex with others. how about trying an open marriage? its a risk, but you guys are already pretty far out on a limb here. Just give each other permission to have sex with others. set up some clear boundary rules, and see if the hate and hurt feelings can subside.


----------



## snerg

Talker67 said:


> *so you both had sex with others.* how about trying an open marriage? its a risk, but you guys are already pretty far out on a limb here. Just give each other permission to have sex with others. set up some clear boundary rules, and see if the hate and hurt feelings can subside.


He didn't.

He told her that to hurt her


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## bigfoot

Dude, 

I get it. Rage, revenge, vigilance, consequences... all are to be expected, but I stand by my hostage comment. Of course, there is a school of thought that sort of encourages that. Also, hyper vigilance is a side effect of being betrayed. Also, the need for revenge. All are logical and predictable. Still, 3 vars, video, etc., not healthy and not good. As I said before. Get counseling. Infidelity counseling from someone with experience.

Truth be told, you aren't really scared of what she might do, you are hurt by what she did. You can't undo that with all of this fort knox stuff. Maybe you figure if you catch her again, then you can cut her out of your life. 

Truthfully, would you? I mean, suppose the number of times she betrayed you already is more than you think? Would that be the straw or is it if she gets more moving forward? In short, is your issue the betrayal or the number or whether she manages to do it again despite your efforts to block her? What's your goal? btw, clear thinking is not expected right now, so knowing your goal is not expected either.

I am not a fan of R in most cases. Still, if one wants to do it, then I STRONGLY urge them to do it the right way so as to increase the odds of success; hence, my hostage comment. Be pissed. Rage. Name call. All of that. BUT...be in counseling to see that you don't lose yourself and thus the marriage you want to save.

You've been hit hard and it was an inside job. I get it. You need expert help because your support system is who betrayed you.


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## TDSC60

Tell your wife the truth. That you said you slept with another to make her feel the pain that you feel. To punish her for what she did to you. Lying helps nothing.

All the other stuff is a somewhat normal reaction at first. But how long can you keep it up. Bottom line is that there is not an iota of trust, what is the point of staying together. 

I'll ask one more time. Did she ever admit to feeling pain when Dan was banging her, like she seems to feel with you?


----------



## Talker67

snerg said:


> He didn't.
> 
> He told her that to hurt her


oh, i missed that one!

Isn't faking it like that a bad idea? Like pretending to have a gun and confronting a bank robber? not gonna end well


----------



## drifting on

arobk said:


> Wow the knives are out. Hardly anyone trying to persuade OP to think about what he is doing and give him better options. Straight to what a horrible person he is. It's been 3 weeks since he found out and he is not anywhere close to thinking reasonable yet. This guy has been catching hell since he first posted about how this whole thing is his fault from some commenters and now he is a jailer. I don't get all the negativity towards the BS in this thread.




I didn't think what I posted was actually negative towards him, but as a jailer I can see why you have said that. Because OP has to give his wife room to grow, room to see how she is going to react, room for her to reach remorse on her own. OP's wife did a terrible act, and truthfully what Jdr8 has done is nothing short of a cruel revenge tactic in which nobody can grow. That was the whole reason I posted what I did, to show him what he has done wrong (in my opinion) that spreading more untruth will only negatively affect the marriage. OP can do as he chooses, but if his plan is to reconcile he will need to change the approach he is currently taking. No punishment I could exact on my wife would have hurt her more then when she reached true remorse. I am not capable of inflicting that pain, and I invite you to ask any WS here that hit true remorse. The worst pain a WS can feel comes from within themselves.


----------



## Jus260

jdr8 said:


> She chooses to have sex.



Why are you having sex with her?


----------



## Jus260

ButtPunch said:


> His anger will subside folks. He made a mistake yes but who doesn't under this kind of duress.
> 
> Get counseling for you and your wife pronto.



I had to go back to the update to see what he actually said. When you switch around the details, this is no different than any other thread on this board where the husband gets cheated on but is too weak to leave. 

This display of anger and extreme monitoring of someone who is obviously weak, isn't a display of toughness. It's the opposite. 

He says she is free to leave. She wants to be married more than than she doesn't want to be abused. If it hasn't happened already, she'll have Stockholm Syndrome where the doors will be open but she won't leave an obviously bad situation.

I wouldn't guarantee that his anger would subside. This is a person who he said wouldn't touch or have sex with him for years. She crapped and peed in a container. Her having sex with another guy is the thing that finally sent him off the deep end. I said in my other post, this doesn't seem like anything worse than any of the other challenges he was dealing with. I don't think we are dealong with a reasonable person.


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## VladDracul

jdr8 said:


> She chooses to have sex.





Jus260 said:


> Why are you having sex with her?



I wouldn't sweat it too much. Things will be back to normal soon enough.


----------



## drifting on

TDSC60 said:


> Tell your wife the truth. That you said you slept with another to make her feel the pain that you feel. To punish her for what she did to you. Lying helps nothing.
> 
> All the other stuff is a somewhat normal reaction at first. But how long can you keep it up. Bottom line is that there is not an iota of trust, what is the point of staying together.
> 
> I'll ask one more time. Did she ever admit to feeling pain when Dan was banging her, like she seems to feel with you?




Jdr8

Last paragraph, the question, I think I know what TDSC60 is getting at here, and if I'm correct, you may have much more to worry about. You're answering this question is very important to you and how we can help you, but keep in mind your wife has a Phd. 

If I'm correct on this, the question is geared towards why your wife drank alcohol which is uncharacteristic of her to have sex with Dan. So why wouldn't she drink to have sex with you to lessen the pain? Keep in mind, Phd, and I wonder if sex really hurt with you at all. You also said you have eliminated more friends then just Dan as they knew about the flirting between Dan and your wife. So obviously your wife was quite comfortable with Dan then you ever thought. Perhaps sex hurt with you because she thought Dan was a better husband, father, and she didn't want to cheat on him. 

Of course this is all speculation, but remember I speculated earlier that Dan and your wife were closer then you thought. That's why she was comfortable around him. That's why she was comfortable being in her bra amongst nine men, why she had sex in an open area, and bam, she could blame it all on alcohol and that she rarely drinks. Phd, this would be very well thought out, and I'm not so sure I'm even right, I think you need an unannounced polygraph. 

Your wife is very smart Jdr8, yet if capable of this she would also be very conniving and cunning. I would be very careful in what you say until you can get that polygraph. Unfortunately, I think her and Dan have been having an affair for much longer then you know. Only a polygraph is going to get this information for you, so don't leave any evidence that you are searching for them. I think you are getting played.


----------



## jdr8

“Why are you having sex with her?” "Did she confess to the sex with Dan hurting?" "Why are you still with her?" "Quit being a physical/emotional abuser."

Because if she can **** him then she can **** me. If she can **** him when he snaps her fingers, then she can **** me when I snap mine. She doesn’t complain about pain anymore. She said it did hurt when she *****d herself out, didn't matter she kept ****ing him anyway. If she does it again then she’s gone. 

I’m not telling my wife that I lied right now, maybe someday, maybe never. Where does that get me? Her not taking me seriously and not trusting when my foot is put down. She knows that she deserved that and she thinks that it will happen again. I’m not stepping down from that. The fear of me leaving or finding someone better than her (almost anyone at this point) is what keeps her trying to make it up to me. Actions have consequences. 

She is free to leave. She isn’t being ****ing abused. Get real. She is free to leave, just as I am. She is choosing to stay because she knows that she ****ed up and she wants to save the marriage. I am choosing to let her stay because maybe one day I will love her again and be able to look at her without disgust. I loved her once, before she *****d herself out. Maybe I can again when it wears off. Somewhere in that hollow shell is the woman I married. 

She doesn’t know that I have voice recorders or a GPS in her car. Come on. What ****ing good would that do. 

If I didn’t ever see the hate and disgust ending would I be here right now? No. It’s not as if this has been going on for months or years. It’s FRESH. She JUST did this. She did this. Not me.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Jdr8
> I am choosing to let her stay because maybe one day I will love her again and be able to look at her without disgust.


It seems that you are leaning in the direction of R. Furthermore you have a wife that takes care of your sex urges and is doing everything you want. IOW, you probably have decided that YOU are better off for now with this arrangement than if you had no contact with her. Finally, you two do have a child together and that is a consideration also. *Jdr8 is doing what is best for him at this time and that is what he should be doing IMO*.





> It’s not as if this has been going on for months or years. It’s FRESH. She JUST did this. She did this. Not me.


Jdr8 is trying to absorb this atomic bomb his wife chose to deliver on him and it is very very early. Jdr8 can get a very good assessment of his wife’s true changes if he watchers her actions for a long time; years not months. It is not unusual for a troubled betrayer to show great emotions and actions of true remorse for several months but a marriage is not for months but for years.

*I would get a post-nup then watch her actions for a long time; then you will have a very good assessment concerning keeping your marriage or D*.


----------



## arobk

jdr8 said:


> “Why are you having sex with her?” "Did she confess to the sex with Dan hurting?" "Why are you still with her?" "Quit being a physical/emotional abuser."
> 
> Because if she can **** him then she can **** me. If she can **** him when he snaps her fingers, then she can **** me when I snap mine. She doesn’t complain about pain anymore. She said it did hurt when she *****d herself out, didn't matter she kept ****ing him anyway. If she does it again then she’s gone.
> 
> I’m not telling my wife that I lied right now, maybe someday, maybe never. Where does that get me? Her not taking me seriously and not trusting when my foot is put down. She knows that she deserved that and she thinks that it will happen again. I’m not stepping down from that. The fear of me leaving or finding someone better than her (almost anyone at this point) is what keeps her trying to make it up to me. Actions have consequences.
> 
> She is free to leave. She isn’t being ****ing abused. Get real. She is free to leave, just as I am. She is choosing to stay because she knows that she ****ed up and she wants to save the marriage. I am choosing to let her stay because maybe one day I will love her again and be able to look at her without disgust. I loved her once, before she *****d herself out. Maybe I can again when it wears off. Somewhere in that hollow shell is the woman I married.
> 
> She doesn’t know that I have voice recorders or a GPS in her car. Come on. What ****ing good would that do.
> 
> If I didn’t ever see the hate and disgust ending would I be here right now? No. It’s not as if this has been going on for months or years. It’s FRESH. She JUST did this. She did this. Not me.


I think you are very angry right now. That is understandable with where you are in this. I think you should see someone about that.

I think that if you keep posting here about how the counseling goes you will get a good idea if it is worthwhile to keep the person you are seeing. Not every counselor is worth the time you spend with them. A good counselor is unavailable.


----------



## arobk

That was supposed to be invaluable at the end.


----------



## syhoybenden

arobk said:


> That was supposed to be invaluable at the end.



The auto-correct anti-feature is an abomination.

Disable it.


----------



## Satya

So, fear is keeping her married to you and you are holding out on hope that some day you won't "hate" her.
I really wish you both all the best but I know there's nothing else of value I can offer.


----------



## Taxman

It is good to keep her off balance for awhile. Confusion in this case is your friend. She needs to have a breakdown or two to understand what she has done. I would drop hints along the way that you are leaning toward divorce. Put her into full freak-out. That way, you can ensure that she will never go down this road again, as the experience is so damned unpleasant, that she has a physical revulsion.


----------



## ButtPunch

For some reason I get the sense that the OP talks tough but deep down may have some codependency issues going on.


----------



## Talker67

if the OP wants to reconcile, that is purely his decision. Just hope he goes into it with eyes open wide, and some sort of promise he will get some sex now.


----------



## bandit.45

I actually find jdr8's approach to his wife and his anger quite refreshing. 

It is about time we had a husband on here who showed some self respect and righteous indignation. I for one see no problem with him demanding sex of her. As he says, she can leave whenever she wants. He doesn't have her chained to a bannister. 

That said, I do think that he needs IC to help him get his issues in perspective.


----------



## bandit.45

TX-SC said:


> Choosing to R is really a difficult decision, but if you do, you'll have to forgive her first.


Why? Why should he forgive immediately? What has she done to earn his forgiveness? 

He shouldn't even worry about forgiving her until she has demonstrated a concerted effort to seek help for her issues and to start digging in to the motivations of why she gave herself permission to destroy her marriage. A few years down the road when she has shown herself to once again be a safe partner, and has shown true remorse for her actions, then maybe forgiveness can come. 

Right now she just feels cheap and guilty and stupid that she let herself be used by this guy. She hasn't hit remorse yet. That won't be for a long while...or maybe never.


----------



## harrybrown

Does she still have the hots for Dan?

When was the last contact?

Did she have contact with him while you were separated?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by TX-SC View Pos*t
> Choosing to R is really a difficult decision, but if you do, you'll have to forgive her first.
> 
> *By Bandit*
> Why? Why should he forgive immediately? *What has she done to earn his forgiveness? *
> 
> He shouldn't even worry about forgiving her until she has demonstrated a concerted effort to seek help for her issues and to start digging in to the motivations of why she gave herself permission to destroy her marriage. A few years down the road when she has shown herself to once again be a safe partner, and has shown true remorse for her actions, then maybe forgiveness can come.
> 
> Right now she just feels cheap and guilty and stupid that she let herself be used by this guy. She hasn't hit remorse yet. That won't be for a long while...or maybe never.


Bandit, I like a lot of your posts but wonder about your criteria for forgiveness.

You said “What has she done to EARN his forgiveness?” There is no way that a betrayer can EARN forgiveness; it is a GIFT that the BS gives. Now if you are talking about RECONCILIATION, then I am 100% in agreement that she/he has to EARN that action.

Forgiveness frees the BS from a lot of negative emotions so forgiveness is good for the BS.


----------



## Taxman

One little thing, you need to blow Dan's life up. Not for anything, but he is a predator, bided his time and struck when she was weak and you were nowhere to be found. My ex-BIL is/was ex IDF. They understand and live the credo of the US Marines: Improvise, adapt, overcome. The guy came to this country without a dime and built a fairly impressive business. My SIL, is to be kind, a flake,(with some nasty parts that I have discussed in the past-she is now 3 guys down after this one), and as such, has definite boundary issues. I do not know how far circumstances went, however, BIL caught wind. He called me and asked if I wanted to join him and a few of his army buddies for a drink. I begged off, stating if I get arrested, I could lose my professional license. (I understood what was going to go down,). A day or two later, my wife receives a phone call. SIL is beside herself. AP called, said he was in the hospital. She wanted to go to him, and his response: NFW, stay the hell away from me. Did not tell me your husband was that VIOLENT. He says that parts of him may never work again. (Israelis, know how to inflict permanent pain). His parting words: If I were you, I'd get out of town. She couch surfed at our place for a week. I called her hubby to let him know where she was, and to get his assurance that if he did anything, it would be nowhere near me. He assured me that he was not going to get physical with her, BUT.....

Their divorce was one of the most slanted agreements I had ever seen. She walked from alimony, and had to buy out his half of the house. Child support was a formula that I had never seen before or since, basically she got support as long as they were under her roof, basically enough for a trip to Mickey D's. He got the kids the majority of the time, his child support was laughable and she really was due alimony, but she assured everyone that she did not want that at all. 

He also got something else that rocked SIL's world. A girl from the army found out he was split about a week after it all happened. She is the new Mrs. She lives in a luxury condo, and only has to work at charitable concerns. AP literally got the message and left town, if not the country. (Smarmy little piss ant with a highly inflated ego, that BIL forcibly removed) SIL, is soooooo "Independent, free and happy" that she frequents cougar bars (tried to drag my wife into her shenanigans, and I put a stop to her), and now is under investigation for some financial irregularities, which I will probably assist in prosecuting in the new year.

I still fail to understand a betrayed husband who does not go after the AP. Violence is not always required, however, I sincerely believe that one has a better chance when NC will be maintained on both sides. A modicum of fear is not always a bad thing. The STBX and their AP's need to understand that their actions can have opposite and even more devastating reactions. (with apologies to Newton)


----------



## Jus260

jdr8 said:


> “Why are you having sex with her?” "Did she confess to the sex with Dan hurting?" "Why are you still with her?" "Quit being a physical/emotional abuser."
> 
> Because if she can **** him then she can **** me. If she can **** him when he snaps her fingers, then she can **** me when I snap mine. She doesn’t complain about pain anymore. She said it did hurt when she *****d herself out, didn't matter she kept ****ing him anyway. If she does it again then she’s gone.
> 
> .


I only asked why you were having sex with her because I wanted to know if you were doing it because she says it hurts and you want to hurt her.

I assumed you wouldn't want sex with her for your own gratification. This would be the first thread I can think of where the guy who was cheated on wasn't that typical weak doormat begging his wife to stop the affair but was still willing to have sex. A guy who is angry is usually repulsed by the thought of a woman who let a guy cum inside her.

Like you said, she is an adult. She can decide to consent or not to consent. 

Good luck with your reconciliation.


----------



## bandit.45

Mr Blunt said:


> Bandit, I like a lot of your posts but wonder about your criteria for forgiveness.
> 
> You said “What has she done to EARN his forgiveness?” There is no way that a betrayer can EARN forgiveness; it is a GIFT that the BS gives. Now if you are talking about RECONCILIATION, then I am 100% in agreement that she/he has to EARN that action.
> 
> Forgiveness frees the BS from a lot of negative emotions so forgiveness is good for the BS.


Bah. That's psycho-religious twaddle made up by preachers to sell books. 

And a person can indeed work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness and to be offered another chance by the person they wronged.


----------



## Evinrude58

If he's ready to forgive her this fast, he's an idiot.
Forgiveness of a betrayal of this magnitude takes a long, long time. And if the betrayer shows no remorse, why forgive it?

I disagree that forgiveness offers magical emotional healing.
I think the ability to truly forgive comes from the strength one develops from rebuilding their life. Not the other way around.


----------



## LosingHim

So it hurts her to have sex with you and you know it, it hurt her to have sex with Dan, but you’re so pissed off and hate her so much that you’re going to make sure she has sex with you when you “snap your fingers”. Even though it hurts her. So you have absolutely zero regard for her physical pain?

And no, don’t start on me with the bullsh*t about she didn’t care about his pain when she cheated either. This man is going to ignore the physical pain that’s caused to a woman when she has sex because he’s angry and hates her so that makes it ok? I hope to god the men here don’t support that.

Sure she “chooses to stay”. Let’s not forget she’s a woman with anxiety issues so severe she sh*t in a bucket. We’ve ALL agreed she’s got some serious issues, but now we suddenly think she’s of sound mind enough to choose to stay?

Nah, that’s more the “choices” of a woman who doesn’t value herself at ALL putting up with being treated like sh*t because she doesn’t believe she deserves any better.

Unreal.

And you may think “someday” you’ll forgive her and love her again. So in the meantime you’re going to treat her like a sex slave when it suits you, even though it hurts her so you can get off, amongst the other things because you’re mad? You think she deserves to be punished. That’s not healthy. That’s revenge. If you think you can love her again someday, let her go until you can. THIS is not healthy.


----------



## Evinrude58

LosingHim said:


> So it hurts her to have sex with you and you know it, it hurt her to have sex with Dan, but you’re so pissed off and hate her so much that you’re going to make sure she has sex with you when you “snap your fingers”. Even though it hurts her. So you have absolutely zero regard for her physical pain?
> 
> And no, don’t start on me with the bullsh*t about she didn’t care about his pain when she cheated either. This man is going to ignore the physical pain that’s caused to a woman when she has sex because he’s angry and hates her so that makes it ok? I hope to god the men here don’t support that.
> 
> Sure she “chooses to stay”. Let’s not forget she’s a woman with anxiety issues so severe she sh*t in a bucket. We’ve ALL agreed she’s got some serious issues, but now we suddenly think she’s of sound mind enough to choose to stay?
> 
> Nah, that’s more the “choices” of a woman who doesn’t value herself at ALL putting up with being treated like sh*t because she doesn’t believe she deserves any better.
> 
> Unreal.
> 
> And you may think “someday” you’ll forgive her and love her again. So in the meantime you’re going to treat her like a sex slave when it suits you, even though it hurts her so you can get off, amongst the other things because you’re mad? You think she deserves to be punished. That’s not healthy. That’s revenge. If you think you can love her again someday, let her go until you can. THIS is not healthy.


In all due respect, you're taking everything she said about painful sex as gospel truth. And you don't take into account that both of them could be involved in hysterical bonding.
The guy is freaking pissed because he loves the woman and she betrayed him.

Yeah, he says he expects sex when he snaps his fingers. What he likely means is that he is wanting, and she is wanting--- and she's likely enjoying or would stop it like she clearly has many times in the past. And the OP accommodated that. She's not a defenseless child.

We aren't there. We have to read and infer.
Yeah, he may sound like an uncaring *******. But the reality is that he likely loves his wife deeply and is angry because he's scared he's lost her. That's how I am. When I get scared, I get angry. It served me well as a young man growing up in redneckville. I didn't know for two months after she suddenly wanted a divorce that my ex was cheating. 4 days after I found out, I sent her packing. I would have wished she'd have come back if she'd have quit....
This guy sounds like he has been incredibly patient with his special needs wife for a long time. I'll bet he's probably still trying much harder to get a handle on all his feelings than he lets on here.

He was cheated on, LH. Yeah, he's angry. I'll still bet he's not having sex with her and trying to hurt her. He's venting to us; I think that's healthier than taking it out on her.
It's more like he's having sex with her and wondering when the pain stuff is going to rear it's face again and he's back in a sexless relationship with someone who just slapped nasties all night with his friend. And he is not stupid enough to think the "pain" was a problem with them.

I could have it all wrong.

This pain thing with her is the most troublesome to me. If this story is all true, it makes me wonder if she's been telling her husband this pain thing because she is not wanting sex with him because her emotions lie elsewhere. It would make sense because such a "fragile" waif as you take her for wouldn't have sex with a dude in an open roon with ten other people in the house, multiple times, without some major emotions and desire being present, drunk or not.


----------



## drifting on

Jdr8

So you're angry, and some support your anger, others don't. I understand you're anger, but after this post I'm done in your thread. If you think this is any way to treat a human being you're wrong, especially a human being with the issues she has. You do remember she defacated and urinated in a bucket to avoid contact with your friends. These are severe issues, not issues that are faked or seen as acting. Hell, I've even projected she could have been so sinister in my other post. But I didn't say she faked her anxiety or psych issues.

Instead you have gone off and decided to extract some revenge with lies of your own. Perhaps you think telling her you had sex with someone is a great way to reconcile. Add in the lies she told you and you have a great foundation to start your reconciliation on. Ask anyone on this site if you're off to a fantastic start. You probably won't get any support on that. As for divorce, you're off to another great start there too. She has a Phd, and can go to any idiot lawyer and prove mental anguish with your little stunt. Snap your fingers, say she did this not you, and in court you will look like an abuser. No, Jdr8, you're anger is going to lead you into trouble I'm afraid. 

What's worse is you look at your wife with hate, mix in anger and you are playing with matches surrounded by gasoline. I can only pray that you come to your senses and just cut her loose. Say you can never get over what she has done. Your child will pick up on your anger, your hate, and your inhuman treatment of your wife. No, you need to get control of yourself, you need to expend your anger in a positive way. 

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Evinrude58

He's having lots of sex with his wife and monitoring her whereabouts.
Where's the inhuman treatment???

He says she's not cimplauning about any pain.

I'd say the way she refused to have piv intercouse with her husband and banged his friend in front of ten others is pretty inhuman treatment, but I digress.


----------



## Jasel

> Sure she “chooses to stay”. Let’s not forget she’s a woman with anxiety issues so severe she sh*t in a bucket. We’ve ALL agreed she’s got some serious issues, but now we suddenly think she’s of sound mind enough to choose to stay?


While I'm all for filing for divorce and moving on I have to agree with this. She "chooses to stay"? Nothing that has been described of OP's wife indicates even if she did want to leave she'd be capable mentally or emotionally. Not saying she's invalid or stupid but if she's willing to take a **** and piss in buckets and bottles because her anxiety is so severe she's afraid to leave the room sometimes to deal with other people, what makes you think she's capable of moving out, finding her own place, getting a lawyer, filing for divorce, dealing with child custody, being a single mom and what going through all that entails?? In most circumstances I'd say "Ya she's choosing to stay or at least chooses not to leave" but in this case I doubt his wife would take the initiative to do any of that no matter what her OP does. So while it's not like she has any chains on her legs or she's being slapped with an eviction notice, she is pretty much at her husband's mercy whether she wants to be or not.

The VAR, GPS, and new boundaries (no phone, computer access, etc) I can understand. But the woman has been exposed to family and all the friends, she completely humiliated herself and her husband, if she had anxiety issues before she's probably blown them up exponentially, was kicked out of the house and knows her husband is on the verge of divorce. She's had a pretty healthy dose of consequences. I think the sex on demand is somewhat piling on. Honestly I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone who is going to complain about it every time anyway and doesn't seem all that gung ho about sex with me to begin with. It certainly isn't going to make her WANT to have sex with OP. But if he just wants her as a hole for his **** that's basically all it sounds like he has if that's what makes him happy.

Personally I think in this case he shouldn't have let her back home so quickly. Especially since he's still in the rage phase and while understandable sure as hell isn't going to endear his anxiety ridden wife to him anytime soon, if ever, if he can't get himself under some modicum of control. Just because she's afraid to leave doesn't mean she's 100% into reconciliation or the marriage. And to me it doesn't even sound like she's remorseful at this point, just in shock and regretful.


----------



## TRy

Evinrude58 said:


> I'd say the way she refused to have piv intercouse with her husband and banged his friend in front of ten others is pretty inhuman treatment


 I agree that her treatment of the OP was extremely “inhuman”. Some on this site are losing track of the fact that he is the victim here and not her. Not only did she cheat on him, but she did it openly in front of 10 other people. And not just any 10 people, but for full humiliation of him that will never go away, these 10 people were his close friends of many years. He cannot hide from this as long as he keeps them as friends, as they will always know that she did this and he stayed anyways.


----------



## The Middleman

I don’t view his treatment of her as “inhumane”. It’s the consequence of what she did, and let’s face it, there haven’t been any consequences for what she did, so I guess “being in the dog house” is it. Frankly, even if what he is doing is emotionally abusive, she deserves it after what she did. Also, she doesn’t have to take it, she can leave if she feels she doesn’t deserve this treatment. The fact that she hasn’t left means she knows she has to pay the price.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LosingHim said:


> Nah, that’s more the “choices” of a woman who doesn’t value herself at ALL putting up with being treated like sh*t...


Hmm. Might want to take a look in a mirror LH.


----------



## LosingHim

Nucking Futs said:


> Hmm. Might want to take a look in a mirror LH.


Makes me pretty qualified to say it wouldn’t you say?


----------



## Nucking Futs

LosingHim said:


> Makes me pretty qualified to say it wouldn’t you say?


I don't know. When you look in a mirror, is that what you see?


----------



## Taxman

We seem to have lost sight of this being his humiliation at the hands of the person who vowed NEVER to betray him. Therefore, all of the psychological warfare is justified. Not only that, she needs to be similarly humiliated. If it were me, she would be living anywhere but with me. She would be in constant fear that she was being replaced. She would be in constant fear that more and more people would know what she did and how she did it. She would be in constant fear of former friends turning their backs on her. He is following a reasonable script for this, from the point of view that she went into this and humiliated him, turned his life and his psyche into a pile of steaming cow cookies, and then does the sorry sorry sorry, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me. I believe that her punishment should entail a severe amount of psychological warfare. A nervous breakdown on her part with hospitalization and meds would be apt in this case. A decent sentence so to speak.


----------



## ButtPunch

Taxman said:


> We seem to have lost sight of this being his humiliation at the hands of the person who vowed NEVER to betray him. Therefore, all of the psychological warfare is justified. Not only that, she needs to be similarly humiliated. If it were me, she would be living anywhere but with me. She would be in constant fear that she was being replaced. She would be in constant fear that more and more people would know what she did and how she did it. She would be in constant fear of former friends turning their backs on her. He is following a reasonable script for this, from the point of view that she went into this and humiliated him, turned his life and his psyche into a pile of steaming cow cookies, and then does the sorry sorry sorry, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me. I believe that her punishment should entail a severe amount of psychological warfare. A nervous breakdown on her part with hospitalization and meds would be apt in this case. A decent sentence so to speak.


Yes....But....

If she doesn't get therapy for her issues, all the consequences in the world
will not prevent this from happening again.


----------



## Taxman

The way I see it, this is a chicken and egg concept. Did the betrayal uncover the need for therapy, or was the betrayal caused by the lack of therapy. I reject all of this. People, even in the throes of breakdowns, still know right from wrong, she was nowhere near a psychotic break, therefore, she knew! or in simpler terms, in any bizarro world, she knew she was married, she knew there was a crowd in the house, OK, drunk is a partway excuse, but the circumstances were already present before the first drink was poured, but she allowed Dan between her legs. Therefore, whatever consequences befall her are of her own doing and no amount of miraculous therapy would have prevented her. I believe she has a price to pay. Whether she can muster the resources inside her to fix this situation, or she crumples and is swept aside is up to her. Her husband has every right to return the gift she gave him, IN SPADES. As my client said to his wayward wife, "I do not want to be a divorcee, I want to be widowed". (She gave him everything in the divorce and quietly moved away). Whether or not this marriage survives, given the level of the betrayal, one hopes she comes out of this with a healthy number of psychological scars that she bears for the rest of her life. The way this woman acts, she is looking for pity, for a good hard ***k.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt View Post
> Bandit, I like a lot of your posts but wonder about your criteria for forgiveness.
> 
> You said “What has she done to EARN his forgiveness?” There is no way that a betrayer can EARN forgiveness; it is a GIFT that the BS gives. Now if you are talking about RECONCILIATION, then I am 100% in agreement that she/he has to EARN that action.
> 
> Forgiveness frees the BS from a lot of negative emotions so forgiveness is good for the BS.
> 
> 
> *By Bandit*
> Bah. That's psycho-religious twaddle made up by preachers to sell books.
> 
> And a person can indeed work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness and to be offered another chance by the person they wronged.


Bandit,
I am not a preacher, my advice is not psycho-religious twaddle, and I am not selling any books.

For those that have a WS that acts like you want, I think it is very good and helpful when
“….a person can indeed work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness and to be offered another chance by the person they wronged.”


*However, what does the betrayed person do when the WS DOES NOT follow your script?* Remain bitter? Remain angry? Be vindictive? Don’t try and tell me that does not happen as I have read plenty of people on this very forum and that is their state of negative emotions. What do you tell them? *What is your experience?*

*If you want to peddle that philosophy then how much help are you for those that do not have a WS that work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness?* The innocent BS deserves to get some relief even if the WS has no remorse and shows no work worthy of forgiveness.


----------



## Evinrude58

mr blunt said:


> bandit,
> i am not a preacher, my advice is not psycho-religious twaddle, and i am not selling any books.
> 
> For those that have a ws that acts like you want, i think it is very good and helpful when
> “….a person can indeed work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness and to be offered another chance by the person they wronged.”
> 
> 
> *however, what does the betrayed person do when the ws does not follow your script? remain bitter? Remain angry? Be vindictive?* don’t try and tell me that does not happen as i have read plenty of people on this very forum and that is their state of negative emotions. What do you tell them? *what is your experience?*
> 
> *if you want to peddle that philosophy then how much help are you for those that do not have a ws that work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness?* the innocent bs deserves to get some relief even if the ws has no remorse and shows no work worthy of forgiveness.


*divorce them*


----------



## LosingHim

I honestly think I'm done with this particular thread. I'm fully aware that OP is the victim here. However, he's not judge, jury and executioner. It's fine for their to be consequences for her actions. New boundaries. Surveillence. But I can't get on board with what pretty much amounts to emotional abuse being pardoned because she "deserves it". It's not right or excusable to punish someone else.


----------



## TRy

LosingHim said:


> It's fine for their to be consequences for her actions. New boundaries. Surveillence. But I can't get on board with what pretty much amounts to emotional abuse being pardoned because she "deserves it". It's not right or excusable to punish someone else.


First, how does new boundaries mean anything to someone that ignored the basic boundary of "do not **** other men, especially publicly in front of 10 of my close long time friends? Second, implementing surveillance on the cheating spouse is more of a negative consequence for the non-cheating spouse that has to do it than it is for the cheating spouse. Third, based on your illogical statement that "It's not right or excusable to punish someone else", we should empty our jails and stop grounding our children.


----------



## LosingHim

TRy said:


> First, how does new boundaries mean anything to someone that ignored the basic boundary of "do not **** other men, especially publicly in front of 10 of my close long time friends? Second, implementing surveillance on the cheating spouse is more of a negative consequence for the non-cheating spouse that has to do it than it is for the cheating spouse. Third, based on your illogical statement that "It's not right or excusable to punish someone else", we should empty our jails and stop grounding our children.


I would think that it would be logical to think that I’m not speaking of punishing criminals or children. But the fact is - she’s neither of those. Yeah, she did a horrible, awful thing. The crappiest of crappy. That doesn’t give anyone the right to emotionally abuse her. You DO NOT look someone in the face and say they can stay in your home and you can stay together in a marriage and in the next sentence say you hate them and “require” they have sex when you snap your fingers regardless of it physically hurts them or not. 

Going back to your own example - if a child does something wrong they’re grounded, right? Lose their phone, can’t go to the party this weekend. But we’re not going to look at them and tell them we hate them. That’s abuse, right? Regardless of what your child did - would you look in their face and lie to them with the intent of your lie destroying them and then tell them you hate them? And that if they want to live under your roof they have to endure physical pain - that you’re going to inflict whenever you feel it necessary? Of course you wouldn’t.


----------



## TRy

LosingHim said:


> I would think that it would be logical to think that I’m not speaking of punishing criminals or children. But the fact is - she’s neither of those.


 Actually, throughout most of history, and in the vast majority of cultures, adultery was a criminal act where the government got involved. Although more recently in the US, the government declines to gets involved, this does not change the way that many still view the act of adultery. As an FYI, on the books adultery is still a crime in many states, including New York, and can be punishable with jail time. Thus with multiple eye witnesses to her adultery, the OP's wife may in fact be treated like a criminal.


----------



## Evinrude58

LosingHim said:


> I would think that it would be logical to think that I’m not speaking of punishing criminals or children. But the fact is - she’s neither of those. Yeah, she did a horrible, awful thing. The crappiest of crappy. That doesn’t give anyone the right to emotionally abuse her. You DO NOT look someone in the face and say they can stay in your home and you can stay together in a marriage and in the next sentence say you hate them and “require” they have sex when you snap your fingers regardless of it physically hurts them or not.
> 
> Going back to your own example - if a child does something wrong they’re grounded, right? Lose their phone, can’t go to the party this weekend. But we’re not going to look at them and tell them we hate them. That’s abuse, right? Regardless of what your child did - would you look in their face and lie to them with the intent of your lie destroying them and then tell them you hate them? And that if they want to live under your roof they have to endure physical pain - that you’re going to inflict whenever you feel it necessary? Of course you wouldn’t.


Losinghim? You never told your husband you hated him after he cheated on you? You never acted like a cold b and treat him like crap when you found out he cheated?

This guy says he's been putting up with no piv sex for years. I doubt he's slamming his wife like a road ***** just to hurt her. I personally thing the painful sex thing is hooey, anyway.


----------



## LosingHim

TRy said:


> Actually, throughout most of history, and in the vast majority of cultures, adultery was a criminal act where the government got involved. Although more recently in the US, the government declines to gets involved, this does not change the way that many still view the act of adultery. As an FYI, on the books adultery is still a crime in many states, including New York, and can be punishable with jail time. Thus with multiple eye witnesses to her adultery, the OP's wife may in fact be treated like a criminal.


Punishable by LAW. In other words, trial, jury and sentence. As I said, OP is not jury, judge and executioner. And even if it was a criminal act - she’s not going to get punished with physical pain and emotional abuse. I am in no way saying there shouldn’t be consequences and boundaries. However, I can’t get on board with saying she deserves abuse. When I found out about my husband I WANTED to punch him in the face. And I told him as much. And for that entire day I chewed him up one side and down the other. I said everything that was on my mind. And no, I didn’t say the nicest things. But after that day, I let go of the hate and all out anger. I never hit him. I haven’t done anything physical to him or emotionally abused him as “punishment”. I don’t think that’s how you treat another human being, regardless. That’s just not something I’ll agree with. I’m not trying to argue with you, it’s just not a train of thought I’ll ever jump on.


----------



## LosingHim

Evinrude58 said:


> Losinghim? You never told your husband you hated him after he cheated on you? You never acted like a cold b and treat him like crap when you found out he cheated?
> 
> This guy says he's been putting up with no piv sex for years. I doubt he's slamming his wife like a road ***** just to hurt her. I personally thing the painful sex thing is hooey, anyway.


See my last post. The first day, yes. I told him I hated him and that I wanted to hit him. In the very first part of discovery when my emotions were raw and I was having a panic attack, yes, I said those things. But not repeatedly, daily and over and over. I let it all fly - all the anger and hurt for a day. After that, no. I have zero desire to beat someone down on a day to day basis because I’m angry or hurt. I say what I need to and that’s that. I WANTED to hurt him physically. But I didn’t. And wouldn’t. You can’t take that back.


----------



## TRy

Evinrude58 said:


> Losinghim? You never told your husband you hated him after he cheated on you? You never acted like a cold b and treat him like crap when you found out he cheated?


If memory serves me right, Losinghim was the one that cheated on her husband.



Evinrude58 said:


> This guy says he's been putting up with no piv sex for years. I doubt he's slamming his wife like a road ***** just to hurt her. I personally thing the painful sex thing is hooey, anyway.


 I also do not believe the painful sex thing. She just did not want to have sex with the OP so she told him it was painful, but did want to have sex with Dan so she did not tell Dan that it was painful.


----------



## SunCMars

GusPolinski said:


> Here's the thing, folks: either you believe she was raped or you don't. Personally I don't see the value in doubting it, especially since her behavior sort of aligns with what you might expect to see in someone that had previously been raped, not to mention gangraped.
> 
> * Once she realized that OP was leaving, she found herself in a difficult decision in which she was forced -- in her mind -- to choose between a) inconveniencing 10 of his longtime friends that had each driven several hours to get there by asking them to leave or b) attempting to overcome her crippling social anxiety in order to accommodate them. She obviously chose B, and probably because her husband encouraged it. Still, there's that anxiety to deal with: enter alcohol.
> 
> * Once OP was gone and she was left with a bunch of other dudes, she sought out a protector within the group: enter Dan.
> 
> * After a night of drinking and eroding boundaries, she succumbed, and temptation probably wasn't the key factor -- she needed to keep her protector engaged, and sex was what he wanted.
> 
> And, given your group's past encouragement of infidelity, not to mention what has historically been a mutual decision to conceal it, what the **** did you really expect to happen?
> 
> Add in the fact that many victims of sexual assault turn to infidelity or promiscuity in an effort to reclaim their consent, and this was a recipe for what happened to happen.
> 
> Victims of sexual assault don't process social situations the same way that other people do. It sucks that you didn't realize this, OP, but there it is.


Nice try, Gus.

She openly cheated with him. Cuddled with him. Admitted that she had a thing for him. She is a grown women and needs to take her medicine.
Remember, she would not readily get intimate with her husband but did so with this fool of a friend. And Dan knew all this. Dan has openly told others that he wanted to get in her pants. She sensed this, she liked him. And she gave Dan the green light.


----------



## Evinrude58

TRy said:


> If memory serves me right, Losinghim was the one that cheated on her husband.
> 
> I also do not believe the painful sex thing. She just did not want to have sex with the OP so she told him it was painful, but did want to have sex with Dan so she did not tell Dan that it was painful.


Losinghim gave a dude a bj once. 
Her husband is a serial cheater.

Losinghim has beat herself up for that for years, probably in partial cause for her accepting the bs he constantly dishes out to her.

I think losinghim is triggering on the OP. Understandable....

She can't see that some people take a little longer to get over their anger than her.
This guy should stay pissed about this for a while.

She can go stay with her parents if he "abuses" her so badly by having sex with his wayward.


----------



## LosingHim

TRy said:


> If memory serves me right, Losinghim was the one that cheated on her husband.
> 
> .


I had a ONS that was oral sex many years ago. My husband had multiple EAs depending on what you consider an EA and then at least a year and a half EA/PA that I just discovered in December. 

You can argue he had an RA and say I deserved it. You might be right. But given that he had multiple EAs depending how you define it and contact with his ex through our whole marriage (who was also his PA partner) against my wishes, maybe mine was the RA. I can honestly tell you, in my case, I don’t know whether the chicken or the egg came first in my marriage. 

But I can tell you I’ll nevet agree with emotional abuse, regardless of anger. I’m 10 months out and I’m still angry as hell somedays. I don’t want him around. He annoys me and he’s not doing enough to clean up his side of the street. But I’d never tell him I hated him or try to physically hurt him or tell him I had an RA just to simply hurt him. Just not my style.

Again, not trying to argue with anyone. I just can’t get down with that thinking. It just adds MORE damage imo.


----------



## eric1

LosingHim said:


> I honestly think I'm done with this particular thread. I'm fully aware that OP is the victim here. However, he's not judge, jury and executioner. It's fine for their to be consequences for her actions. New boundaries. Surveillence. But I can't get on board with what pretty much amounts to emotional abuse being pardoned because she "deserves it". It's not right or excusable to punish someone else.




I understand why he did it and will give him a break given the circumstances but I am with you. You treat other people as you wish to be treated yourself - no exceptions.


----------



## LosingHim

eric1 said:


> I understand why he did it and will give him a break given the circumstances but I am with you. You treat other people as you wish to be treated yourself - no exceptions.


If we were talking about a moderately healthy woman, I would say she is choosing to deal with it as her punishment and while I don’t agree, she’s able bodied and making that choice and she has to deal with that. But if OPs wife is truly how he’s described her then I don’t feel she’s healthy enough to make that choice. I think it’s more that she already feels worthless and she’s not strong enough to walk away if it’s bad enough.

I understand anger. I do. I want to let it rip sometimes I get so hurt and mad. I want to say mean, nasty, ugly things. But once they’re spoken, they can’t be taken back.

Yes, I cheated. And when I found out my husband had an affair, that night in blind rage as I was trying to get him to leave and I was calling him a liar and a cheater and an a$$hole and all the other things I said that I hated him and that he wasted 11 years of my life and that I wished I’d never met him.

He’s told me numerous times that those words hurt more than what I physical did. Because no matter what I’d done he never hated me or thought that I wasted his life regardless of anything.


----------



## Evinrude58

LosingHim said:


> If we were talking about a moderately healthy woman, I would say she is choosing to deal with it as her punishment and while I don’t agree, she’s able bodied and making that choice and she has to deal with that. But if OPs wife is truly how he’s described her then I don’t feel she’s healthy enough to make that choice. I think it’s more that she already feels worthless and she’s not strong enough to walk away if it’s bad enough.
> 
> I understand anger. I do. I want to let it rip sometimes I get so hurt and mad. I want to say mean, nasty, ugly things. But once they’re spoken, they can’t be taken back.
> 
> Yes, I cheated. And when I found out my husband had an affair, that night in blind rage as I was trying to get him to leave and I was calling him a liar and a cheater and an a$$hole and all the other things I said that I hated him and that he wasted 11 years of my life and that I wished I’d never met him.
> 
> He’s told me numerous times that those words hurt more than what I physical did. Because no matter what I’d done he never hated me or thought that I wasted his life regardless of anything.


And as usual, he's lying. Guaranteed.
What you said in anger can be apologized for and is understandable. One can give a pass on things said in anger. It's the other dude in your mouth that he kept seeing every time he saw your face that he couldn't forgive. 

Same with OP. Every time he sees this woman he's seeing her with DAN in her vagina.
It's making him act badly.
Yeah, it's wrong. But I understand it.
She has relatives near. She left and went there before. If things are so bad, she can again.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

LosingHim said:


> If we were talking about a moderately healthy woman, I would say she is choosing to deal with it as her punishment and while I don’t agree, she’s able bodied and making that choice and she has to deal with that. But if OPs wife is truly how he’s described her then I don’t feel she’s healthy enough to make that choice. I think it’s more that she already feels worthless and she’s not strong enough to walk away if it’s bad enough.


 Man I'm sick of the same few that act like a female has no agency and is the possession of her husband . This woman has a Phd fer krissakes , she also manipulated the OP and led Dan on, letting Dan talk **** about the OP and fully accepting the flirtations that led up to the cabin night. I'd expect she played the OP with the whole wanting to stay or go deal. 
LH, I believe this thread is triggering you but your tone deafness in some of your posts in relation to your own situation is mind-boggling.
The OP is doing what he feels he needs to do to get over this. If she is not up for it she is a Phd with full agency to do as she pleases, and after what she did to the OP it certainly isn't his obligation to babysit her broken ass.


----------



## christro6692

Im not an expert, but it seems like the WS knew what she was doing drunk or not! Ten or so of his so called friends there and no one said a damn thing! I understand BROS before HOES concept but damn! Also why would anyone leave there wife around a bunch of drunk guys while their wife is drinking also? Friends or not, i dont care, I would never do this. This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Perception is reality. His wife, clearly has issues after being Gang Raped, but we are told that she would not even allow groups of men around her and that she would stay in her room when they were there. I feel for BS, but I would never have nine guys at my place drinking around my wife there while i was away, I dont care what any one says about that! Yeah, she cheated most definitely, but what the F man nine drunk guys around your wife who was drinking also! Your wife knew what she was doing and your so called best friend did also, and I guarantee that other people there are not telling you the whole truth also about what they know. I am 49yrs old and I can tell you from my experiences that there is alot more to this story than what you are being told. If this story is true, then I hate what is happening to you, no one deserves this! You will never be able to trust her again. Loving her and trusting her to have integrity are two different things. Dan needs his butt kicked really bad. He is very disrespectful to you! Your WS needs counseling just from what you have said here, she has alot of issues. Also, you need to redefine your boundaries with future friends. There is a difference between friends and good friends. It seem like you have alot of drinking buddies and not friends!


----------



## SunCMars

LosingHim said:


> I had a ONS that was oral sex many years ago. My husband had multiple EAs depending on what you consider an EA and then at least a year and a half EA/PA that I just discovered in December.
> 
> You can argue he had an RA and say I deserved it. You might be right. But given that he had multiple EAs depending how you define it and contact with his ex through our whole marriage (who was also his PA partner) against my wishes, maybe mine was the RA. I can honestly tell you, in my case, I don’t know whether the chicken or the egg came first in my marriage.
> 
> But I can tell you I’ll nevet agree with emotional abuse, regardless of anger. I’m 10 months out and I’m still angry as hell somedays. I don’t want him around. He annoys me and he’s not doing enough to clean up his side of the street. But I’d never tell him I hated him or try to physically hurt him or tell him I had an RA just to simply hurt him. Just not my style.
> 
> Again, not trying to argue with anyone. I just can’t get down with that thinking. It just adds MORE damage imo.


Yeah...

That would give credence to anyone else's 'unjust' low opinion of LH. 

It would allow 'others' to point fingers and say, "See"! 
She is a typical low-down she-skunk. Blaming others, never herself.
And gents....she ain't that.

Rather codependent, not emotionally strong....if you leave out the loving part. 
The love is strong in this lady. She is a typical people pleaser. 

And if she finally gets a decent man.....he is in for a pleasurable time. Maybe, a lifetime.
Hopefully, a lifetime.
For her sake, for our sake.

I will then offer a toast of Saki for her sake!


----------



## Jus260

There is a record breaking amount of assuming going on in this thread. That's why I tend to use the facts that were posted then ask questions to fill in some of the blanks. It's impossible to fill in all of the blanks.

It's possible this is something she wanted to do for a while and she drank a sh*tload of alcohol to work up enough nerve to have sex with Dan and/or dull the pain she normally feels because the opportunity was finally there when her husband left. 

The pain could have been the reason for drinking so much alcohol in the first place after she decided she was going to try it. Reading the first 14 or 15 posts again, the OP said she slowly built a crush on Dan that obviously led to this. It's plausible but I won't say that's definitely what happened. How the fawk would any of us know that for sure? 

In his 16th post in this thread, he said it took her a year to kiss him and two years to have sex. Sounds like that was before she was married. If the current sex issues with JDR8 are just an act, why would she marry him? If this started before they got married, that's one hell of an act.

I just know I am not going to have sex with someone who doesn't want me. I would feel like a rapist. Not saying that's what happened in his case. That's just not where I am in my life. As far as lack of sex is cincerned, he knew what he signed up for. 

Also, I'm not naive enough to believe every BS on this board is a good person. It's possible for two bad people to be in a relationship together. 

In this thread there seems to be an assumption that no BS could ever be guilty of bad behavior.

It's like how every dead person all of a sudden was a good man.


----------



## TDSC60

SunCMars said:


> Nice try, Gus.
> 
> She openly cheated with him. Cuddled with him. Admitted that she had a thing for him. She is a grown women and needs to take her medicine.
> Remember, she would not readily get intimate with her husband but did so with this fool of a friend. And Dan knew all this. Dan has openly told others that he wanted to get in her pants. She sensed this, she liked him. And she gave Dan the green light.


I agree. She admits to a growing attraction to Dan for years. She admits that her attraction to Dan grew as her respect and attraction to her husband dropped.

She admits to removing her top when most others removed nothing. She admits that after the so called game was over her top remained off (bait the hook). She admits to moving closer the Dan every chance she got (hook in the water). She admits that she did nothing to stop Dan when he made his move on her (hook is set and fish is on the line).

She has lied several time about protection, pulling out and how the actual sex happened. 

DAN IGNORED HER AFTER HE GOT HIS ROCKS OFF. This, in my opinion is the root of her confession to her husband. If Dan had pursued her the next day, OP would never have been told and the affair would be in high gear. But Dan got what he wanted and she did not. So now she has to grovel at Plan Bs feet to maintain a marriage she consciously trashed.

Alcohol can loosen inhibitions but it does not change the basic character of the person.

I don't see much hope here.

But OP needs to make the decision without trying to cause his wife pain. Her pain is probably for her child and herself - nothing for the betrayed husband.

He needs to stop trying to punish her, it won't work. She probably doesn't care and he is causing himself more pain. Just accept it and move on with a life without her in it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Jus260 said:


> There is a record breaking amount of assuming going on in this thread. That's why I tend to use the facts that were posted then ask questions to fill in some of the blanks. It's impossible to fill in all of the blanks.
> 
> It's possible this is something she wanted to do for a while and she drank a sh*tload of alcohol to work up enough nerve to have sex with Dan and/or dull the pain she normally feels because the opportunity was finally there when her husband left.
> 
> The pain could have been the reason for drinking so much alcohol in the first place after she decided she was going to try it. Reading the first 14 or 15 posts again, the OP said she slowly built a crush on Dan that obviously led to this. It's plausible but I won't say that's definitely what happened. How the fawk would any of us know that for sure?
> 
> In his 16th post in this thread, he said it took her a year to kiss him and two years to have sex. Sounds like that was before she was married. If the current sex issues with JDR8 are just an act, why would she marry him? If this started before they got married, that's one hell of an act.
> 
> I just know I am not going to have sex with someone who doesn't want me. I would feel like a rapist. Not saying that's what happened in his case. That's just not where I am in my life. As far as lack of sex is cincerned, he knew what he signed up for.
> 
> Also, I'm not naive enough to believe every BS on this board is a good person. It's possible for two bad people to be in a relationship together.
> 
> In this thread there seems to be an assumption that no BS could ever be guilty of bad behavior.
> 
> It's like how every dead person all of a sudden was a good man.


No, it is not record breaking nor is it new. Not even you pointing it out and then engaging in the same type of conjecture, while being condescending isn't new either. Equating wanting sex with someone you love, even pity/duty sex, to rape is ridiculous.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by mr blunt View Post
> bandit,
> i am not a preacher, my advice is not psycho-religious twaddle, and i am not selling any books.
> 
> For those that have a ws that acts like you want, i think it is very good and helpful when
> “….a person can indeed work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness and to be offered another chance by the person they wronged.”
> 
> 
> however, what does the betrayed person do when the ws does not follow your script? remain bitter? Remain angry? Be vindictive? don’t try and tell me that does not happen as i have read plenty of people on this very forum and that is their state of negative emotions. What do you tell them? what is your experience?
> 
> if you want to peddle that philosophy then how much help are you for those that do not have a ws that work to show themselves worthy of forgiveness? the innocent bs deserves to get some relief even if the ws has no remorse and shows no work worthy of forgiveness.





> By Evinrude58
> divorce them


Divorce them does not answer the question about bitterness, anger, and vindictiveness. 
What do you do with the person that divorces them and is bitter, angry, or vindictive?
Forgiveness can relieve bitterness, anger, and vindictiveness for the BS regardless of Divorce or R.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Nope not always true. I've met and know people who have forgiven a person and are still bitter. I've met people who have summarily cut people out of their lives and are better for it.
Divorce is not all it is cracked up to be and neither is forgiveness.


----------



## VladDracul

Jus260 said:


> In his 16th post in this thread, he said it took her a year to kiss him and two years to have sex. Sounds like that was before she was married. If the current sex issues with JDR8 are just an act, why would she marry him? If this started before they got married, that's one hell of an act.


How many folks have you ran across that dated any number of people, had sex with some early out of the gate but refused to sleep with others or waited an ample amount of time to sleep with others. Some folks just get your juices flowing more than others. And women don't necessarily marry their best sex partner or the one they are most attracted to. 
Besides, after banging Dan with a shyt load of friends practically in the same room, one can only imagine what she'd done if him and her were alone. The boy would have probably been on crutches for days afterwards.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

VladDracul said:


> How many folks have you ran across that dated any number of people, had sex with some early out of the gate but refused to sleep with others or waited an ample amount of time to sleep with others. Some folks just get your juices flowing more than others. And women don't necessarily marry their best sex partner or the one they are most attracted to. After banging Dan with a shyt load of friends practically in the same room, one can only imagine what she'd done if him and her were alone. The boy would have probably been on crutches for days afterwards.


Who knows--maybe she has an exhibitionist streak--maybe the close proximity of others made it more exciting.


----------



## Evinrude58

TDSC60 said:


> I agree. She admits to a growing attraction to Dan for years. She admits that her attraction to Dan grew as her respect and attraction to her husband dropped.
> 
> She admits to removing her top when most others removed nothing. She admits that after the so called game was over her top remained off (bait the hook). She admits to moving closer the Dan every chance she got (hook in the water). She admits that she did nothing to stop Dan when he made his move on her (hook is set and fish is on the line).
> 
> She has lied several time about protection, pulling out and how the actual sex happened.
> 
> DAN IGNORED HER AFTER HE GOT HIS ROCKS OFF. This, in my opinion is the root of her confession to her husband. If Dan had pursued her the next day, OP would never have been told and the affair would be in high gear. But Dan got what he wanted and she did not. So now she has to grovel at Plan Bs feet to maintain a marriage she consciously trashed.
> 
> Alcohol can loosen inhibitions but it does not change the basic character of the person.
> 
> I don't see much hope here.
> 
> But OP needs to make the decision without trying to cause his wife pain. Her pain is probably for her child and herself - nothing for the betrayed husband.
> 
> He needs to stop trying to punish her, it won't work. She probably doesn't care and he is causing himself more pain. Just accept it and move on with a life without her in it.


This is probably a pretty accurate observation: She said she thought Dan would be a better DAD!!!! That's freaking horror of horrors in my opinion. About as bad as saying he gave her an orgasm with his larger penis. She said she had listened to his bashing of her husband. She ADMITTED to putting a lot of thought into this guy far ahead of the deed.
I have to agree with TD, if Dan had responded after the sex with more attention(bait) and given her further emotional support(bait), I think she'd have likely left OP.
She wrecked her marriage. Totally wrecked it. She needs to leave, because she has shown she doesn't really love her husband. After all, what woman that LOVED her husband would be CAPABLE of thinking another man is a better dad to their child????


----------



## christro6692

Hey, i just wanted say that I feel sorry for the guy
1. He gets a double betrayal.
2. Wife Admits to basically being in Love with Dan. 
3. Trusted friend so much that he never thought this would happen. 
4. Wife Lied about condom.
5. Wife would never tell him she didnt like it.

Listen you did nothing wrong other than trusting your friends to watch after things while you were way and trusting that your wife would have some morals and not act like a HOE. I know you say that you got rid of some of your friends but I would never leave my wife in a situation where there were a bunch of drunk guys friends or not. Also if they were friends and they saw Dan making a move on your wife then someone should have shut that crap down real quick, none of them are your friends. Find some new ones. Your doing the right thing by divorcing your wife. I would tell her she needs to go get some professional help and then I would have pack her crap and took to Dan's place, kicked his butt, and left her there. Just tell your divorcing her because you dont want to stand in the way of true LOVE and because she has no Integrity. Tell her maybe after you divorce her and she gets some help, and your not seeing anyone then you would maybe think about it.


----------



## Jus260

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, it is not record breaking nor is it new. Not even you pointing it out and then engaging in the same type of conjecture, while being condescending isn't new either. Equating wanting sex with someone you love, even pity/duty sex, to rape is ridiculous.


I pointed it out then I said no one knows for sure. People should stop talking as if they have been viewing this while thing from afar like the 3 eyed raven. 

I said if I was having sex with someone who didn't want me, I would feel like a rapist. I can't help that I have a conscience. I didn't compare anything to anything. He said he had a terrible sex life, for all I know, whatever is going on now is awesome for both of them. How the hell would I know for sure?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Jus260 said:


> I pointed it out then I said no one knows for sure. People should stop talking as if they have been viewing this while thing from afar like the 3 eyed raven.
> 
> I said if I was having sex with someone who didn't want me, I would feel like a rapist. I can't help that I have a conscience. I didn't compare anything to anything. He said he had a terrible sex life, for all I know, whatever is going on now is awesome for both of them. How the hell would I know for sure?


No, I completely understood what you were demanding like you are a mod. They should stop, but you can continue on in the same tone. Like I said condescension. Spouting conjecture and further insulting people doing the same. Now, you are saying people in a poor or no sex situation whether it is an affair or not, do not have a conscience along with being rapists.

It isn't the telling people not to speculate, it is you speculating and insulting people which is condescending. No worries, I am done with your derail.


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## Jus260

Does this board have an ignore function? I would like an easy way to avoid this angry guy.


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## 3putt

Jus260 said:


> Does this board have an ignore function? I would like an easy way to avoid this angry guy.


Yeah, it's called _*"Don't click on this thread"*_ if you don't want to look at it.


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## EleGirl

Jus260 said:


> Does this board have an ignore function? I would like an easy way to avoid this angry guy.


Yes you can block anyone you want. You won't see their posts... unless someone quotes them.


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## Mr Blunt

*



Posted by phillybeffandswiss

Click to expand...

*


> Nope not always true. I've met and know people who have forgiven a person and are still bitter. I've met people who have summarily cut people out of their lives and are better for it.
> Divorce is not all it is cracked up to be and neither is forgiveness.


What is your definition of forgiveness?

I guess you and I have a different definition of forgiveness. Forgiveness to me is letting go of the bitterness, anger, and vengeance you have boiling up in your emotions. So with my definition of forgiveness you are free from bitterness.


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## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> *Yes you can block anyone you want. *You won't see their posts... unless someone quotes them.


Sigh...

So!

That is how you have escaped my jabs...

Remember, I can fly and am near invisible, Indivisible, one Martian Notion, under God.


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## TX-SC

SunCMars said:


> Sigh...
> 
> So!
> 
> That is how you have escaped my jabs...
> 
> Remember, I can fly and am near invisible, Indivisible, one Martian Notion, under God.


Nobody could block ALL of you personalities!


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## phillybeffandswiss

Mr Blunt said:


> *
> 
> 
> What is your definition of forgiveness?
> 
> I guess you and I have a different definition of forgiveness. Forgiveness to me is letting go of the bitterness, anger, and vengeance you have boiling up in your emotions. So with my definition of forgiveness you are free from bitterness.
> *


*Oh I know the myriad of semantics played when it comes to forgiveness, no one has the right answer or the proper way for everyone. As you said "for me" applies to everything in this world. If we all saw eye to eye and everything was a "one size fits all" problem solving, the world would be a boring place. To answer, even with your partial explanation I still disagree it is this cut and dry.

This is my second derail, I will not discuss it further.*


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Jdr8*
> Maybe at some point I’ll be able to trust her and like her again.
> I am choosing to let her stay because maybe one day I will love her again and be able to look at her without disgust.


Jdr8 seems to be wanting to R.



> *by jdr8*
> She claims to have remorse and she needs to prove it.* I hate her right now *and I want her to hurt. She needs to rebuild what she destroyed. If that's even possible. Right now she will do anything that I tell her to do


.

*This post is for only jdr8,* as I got derailed with phillybeefandswis.

*Jdr8, your hate will harm YOU and forgiveness is the first step in you letting go of that hate. Now reconciliation, accountability, and consequences are other separate issues*. I know the emotional state that you are in, been there, done that, however, forgiveness helped me to get rid of the hate and other negative emotions. This is just my attempt at trying to help you with your negative emotions. If forgiveness is not how you want to handle your situation then that is all right by me.


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## skerzoid

jdr8

1. Why did your family & friends (?) council you to forgive & forget?
2. If she was so screwed up mentally when you first met her, what was the attraction?
3. Have you informed Dan's GF? If not, why not? She needs to know about good old Dan.
4. How could she earn a PHD (and what was her field) with so much stress from the gang rape or did that happen afterwards? Was she employed in her field?
5. Have you had your child's DNA tested? Dan-the-man seemed to show a lot of interest in your child or was that just him trying to get closer to your wife?
6. What answers to your questions has she given you? The why, when, where's and such? Or does she still just weep?
7. How long are you giving her to show true remorse and when will you know it?
8. Does she still have pain from intercourse or was that just an excuse?
9. What does she see as a future with you?

Just me trying to make sense of all this.


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## TDSC60

Sorry if I missed this, but have you had a DNA test done on the child? I did not think that would be a good idea until you started posting more and more about her interaction over the years with Dan and how she has admitted to her growing attraction to him and him replacing you as the attractive male in her life. Now I think DNA for the child might not be such a bad idea.


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## JayDee7

It's over man, you'll never be happy with her again knowing that she cheated on you with your old friend. You could forgive her in time since she is your kid's mom, it's probably best for the kid, but you do not have to be with her. I couldn't live with that at all.


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## drifting on

Jdr8

How have you been? I'm hoping your anger isn't getting the best of you. I can understand the anger, it's brutal, and it cuts very deep.


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## colingrant

JDR8. 

I'm a new member and just read all of your posts. I don't have time to read other posts within your thread, so my response is independent of all others. Does't make it better, I just wanted you to know my read on your situation is unfettered fyi. This site greatly interest me and I read them as often as I can over the last 3-4 days since I became a member. I'm saying all of that to say, I'm torn for the very first time after reading dozens of other cheating spouse situations. My thoughts

1) Your agony is felt by me. Wife and multiple friend betrayal is enough to alter ones emotional stability. Your agitation is justified and if your wife wasn't the docile individual she is, and if your follow up calls to individuals to corroborate events, during, before and after didn't flush out, you may very well have snapped, and understandably so. You have reason to not believe them, as you have provided evidence of the group turning a cheek and maintaining an arms length distance to some activity in the past. I'm not sure why, but I believe those who have confirmed no additional activity is thought to have happened. The MILF comments and other inappropriate remarks incensed me. I'm cussing like a MF in my mind with anger at this fact. THIS IS NOT HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WITH FRIENDS. I don't give f how many drinks, or relaxation or whatever is present. That sxxt' off LIMITS.

2) Have mercy on your wife. She made her bed and is lying in it. There's no excuse available for her. End of Story there. I believe you should forgive her and heal with her if you can. You might not be able to and it's possible that it's irreparable due to the humiliation factor, which I fully understand. I think your wife needs you. That's not enough of a reason to stay in your marriage though, because you have needs and expectations also. I think your wife made a mistake and will not make it again from what I've read. 

3) The POS-MF Dan is who I want a piece of. Let me say this. When my friends introduce me to their wives or girlfriends, something in me immediately causes me to look at them as a sister or cousin. I'm LIMP from that point forward. These stories about friends and stuff being intertwined in relationships have shaken me. I thought I had a handle on what's going on in the world, but I was WAY off. Friends, brothers, best friends, WTF IS GOING ON HERE!!!!!!!!!! I'm going off here and need to cease. Nothing more I want to say other than I think despite her choice, she can become an excellent wife. I cheated on my first girlfriend and 35 years later the thought of cheating is repulsive.


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## bandit.45

Make her earn your forgiveness. Don’t give it away to her cheaply.


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## stephanielove

This is a difficult one as if involves a lot of people and people that you have trusted for a very long time. 

Whether the sex was consensual is a gray area as today at lot people would consider it rape. If your wife is not calling it rape then either it was consensual or she mentally doesn't want to go down that route from her past. 

I think one of the bigger issues is that all your friends knew about her past and that she wasn't a big drinker. Of course most people don't want to get involved, even if they good friends.

You need some space to calm down and really decide what is best for you, your wife and child. I wouldn't recommending staying together just because of the child. Bring up children in a potentially toxic environment can have a negative affect on everyone. If you both want the relationship to continue have you considered counseling?


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## Evinrude58

Rape???! Please.....


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