# Manning up / Nice guy / Emotional security



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The theme of a lot of threads in the men's clubhouse seems to revolve around 'manning up' and holding onto your 'nuts' and setting boundaries so to speak. There have been near-split experiences with my wife in the past due to her pushing boundaries, however, the ability to walk, or move on -> seems to set expectations from your partner, in other words it's like 'you have to be like this, otherwise it's over, pack your bags woman!'

It doesn't really give one's wife much emotional security to know that her husband can walk and just give up everything. Yes, it's about striking the balance at times, however, sometimes 'manning up' or 'being nice' completely contradicts each other at times.

This comes in with how I feel in regards to our past trials. I felt I had to do it, to show her that she can't push me around, and she should stop otherwise I would walk. And that hurts her, and over time with her fitness tests followed by my 'take no sh-t' attitude, she's more on guard then if she feels she can relax a bit more.

So what do I do?


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> the ability to walk, or move on -> seems to set expectations from your partner, in other words it's like 'you have to be like this, otherwise it's over, pack your bags woman!'
> 
> It doesn't really give one's wife much emotional security to know that her husband can walk and just give up everything.


Faulty thinking in my humble opinion. The fact that one has the ability to do something is not the point when one chooses not to (do it). Using threat to control one's wife is not manly.

Likewise, her security should not rest in her husband's emotional weakness


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’ll never have a consistent, happy and healthy marriage while simultaneously being an alcohol dependent.


It’s never going to happen.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Emotional security is a requirement for both sexes in a LTR.

The overarching theme seen in many of the 'man up' threads here are where there is an over-abundance of security, and little if any boundaries in place.

You have a man, or woman, whom their partner thinks will NEVER leave ... no matter what the circumstances.

The pack your bags and leave portion is the last option in a series of events intended to rebalance the relationship. If that rebalance does not or cannot occur ... then logic dictates you only have 2 options;

Stay and tolerate it.

Leave and move on.

Don't know how to explain it, other than I feel like I personally have internalized the process.
And it isn't ever about controlling her. It's about managing me.

The point of destabilizing a relationship ... is recognizing that it is already destabilized. Basically the dynamic overwhelmingly serves the needs of one of the partners while leaving the other feeling insecure, or like their needs aren't being met.

It's like re-breaking and setting a broken bone so it can heal correctly.

It certainly isn't intended to break something that is working as intended.

You can certainly rebuild the notion of security by providing the things that you know makes your partner feel loved.

Consequently, you can upset the apple cart by withholding those things.

Lets face it, you guys have been through the gauntlet over the last few years.

Are you afraid of things 'settling down'?

Still seems to me that you are both volatile people ... not in a bad way, but crisis is where you guys functioned for a very long time.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Crisis is what we're used to yes, and it was like that from the start as we were 'friends' but at the same time it was more of an emotional affair as I had a girlfriend at the time, then came the problems with friends, family, church, society, etc etc. But now, we are enjoying settling down and just being at peace with each other, we've overcome everything so far

I'm just confused at times in regards to this whole man-up vs nice-guy stuff. There are times when the missus does push boundaries and she can be a handful at times (and stubborn), but she has never threatened to leave or anything like that. She has been extremely loyal throughout the years even when we were just bf/gf

Now we're on the aftermath of leaving all the dramas behind, and I want to rebuild her security and faith in our marriage, but at the same time I don't want her to attempt to push boundaries again lest we'll end up in circles.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> This comes in with how I feel in regards to our past trials. I felt I had to do it, to show her that she can't push me around, and she should stop otherwise I would walk. And that hurts her, and over time with her fitness tests followed by my 'take no sh-t' attitude, she's more on guard then if she feels she can relax a bit more.
> 
> So what do I do?


Good question.

Not long ago my marriage got to a point where I was being used and taken for granted.

I manned-up made my needs and boundaries known.

She pushed back hard against these boundaries and I told her "There`s the door, I have no problem with you using it if you can`t remain within these boundaries!"

This immediately cowed her, and the insecurity it caused in her has taken a toll on our relationship.

I think we`re getting past it but I don`t think she`ll ever be as comfortable in her security as she was.
That`s probably a good thing in retrospect.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm... so it seems it's either one or the other... =/


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

3leafclover said:


> But she will push boundaries again if she is insecure. Emotional insecurity leads to more testing, not less.


But more testing/pushing leads to more emotional insecurity.
Nasty cycle.

Soooo...it was best when I was rug sweeping and being used?

:scratchhead:


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

AFEH said:


> You’ll never have a consistent, happy and healthy marriage while simultaneously being an alcohol dependent.
> 
> 
> It’s never going to happen.


:iagree:


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

3leafclover said:


> So, IMO, testing is a pretty natural and to-be-expected human reaction to insecurity, although some people are so insecure that they take it to self-sabotaging and relationship-sabotaging levels.


So the best way to deal with it is to offer security within those boundaries consistently so she eventually sees it`s not a matter of you not wanting her but simply a matter of how you`ll accept being treated.

Maintain that situation and time should heal those insecurities?

I hope, cause that`s what I`ve been doing.

RD you aren`t tossing out divorce threats anymore are you?
I thought y`all had gotten past that.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> So the best way to deal with it is to offer security within those boundaries consistently so she eventually sees it`s not a matter of you not wanting her but simply a matter of how you`ll accept being treated.
> 
> Maintain that situation and time should heal those insecurities?
> 
> I hope, cause that`s what I`ve been doing.


Then I guess the path is clear, thanks
Everything adds up and makes sense now
Guess I can't speed up the healing process though, either than maintaining consistency



> RD you aren`t tossing out divorce threats anymore are you? I thought y`all had gotten past that.


No, we've been good nowadays - we haven't really had a fight since the last trial, and she's improved alot too. I guess I just wanted to make sure we're on the right track - I don't want to hurt her again, I want her to heal from our past.

Smooth sailing from now on is my commitment - as I'm also tired of fighting her, and if we have to fight, I'd rather we fight external negative influences rather than internal ones like we used to in the past. We are still fighting from time to time against discrimination from society as well, and those who are not so happy about our daughter, as we're still not a socially acceptable couple in this country due to racialism, the younger generation here however is much better though nowadays, more mature and less stupid lol

It's the internal issues that caused her insecurity however.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

3leafclover said:


> That's what I think, yes. Unless the insecurities are not so much to do with you and are actually deeply-rooted parts of her personality that she's been carrying around since before you.


This is also part of the equation.

Odds are, your wife IS going to test your boundaries again ... and again. For some women, that is how they validate that the relationship is secure.

That's the crux of a fitness test. And my opinion is that the _less_ secure a woman feels, the _more_ likely it is that you will be tested.

The trick is recognizing that you don't need to use the nuclear option every time your boundaries are challenged. If anything, that can make things worse.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I agree with Deejo, you need to know exactly what your dealbreakers are, make that clear, and everything else in between is daily life.

Basically, you never use the word divorce unless your dealbreakers come up. Whatever those are....cheating, etc.
You do of course have to have it straight in your mind exactly what you will walk over. 

Anything else that comes up, your mind is set to a committment, and you will work through the issues. She should see this in time, and the fitness testing should decrease.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There are lots of things you can do to strengthen your bond and not have to worry about this.

Education is key. Read No More Mr Nice Guy, Hold On To Your N.U.T.S., Not Just Friends, 5 Love Languages, and His Needs Her Needs, together, so you both understand what's right and wrong in a marriage.

Improve communication. Vow to never raise your voice to each other. Always let the other person say what they are feeling and never criticize their feelings - everyone's feelings are legitimate; it's what you do with that knowledge that counts. Make it a safe environment to share.

Set up a one-hour meeting each week to discuss any issues that have cropped up that week or are still unresolved from previous ones. During that hour, vow to keep it safe to talk, don't just defend yourself but actually listen and try to put yourself in each other's shoes, and work to reach an agreement that neither of you will resent.

Vow to spend 15 hours a week together doing stuff that maintains your love for each other. Keep dating, in other words. Have a coffee together each morning. Find ways to connect.

Fill out Harley's Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires each year to see how to stop harming each other and how to meet each other's needs.


----------



## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Good question.
> 
> Not long ago my marriage got to a point where I was being used and taken for granted.
> 
> ...


Yes, it MOST definitely a good thing.


----------



## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

I am guilty of conveying that "we'll be together no matter what" feeling to my W. Neither party should be so secure in your relationship that you neglect it or take it for granted.

As Deejo stated however, no need to go nuclear for everything. 

_You "don't know" what you'd like to do today, and all my suggestions don't appeal to you? As my W I offered you first shot at my free time. Time to spend with friends/family/alone then._


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don`t usually go nuclear.


The issue I spoke of was one that had gotten to a point after 4 years of those particular boundaries being trampled/tested and there was no room for compromise. I had let it go too long.

It was the only place to go to enforce that boundary(nuclear).

It has made her pretty insecure but we`ve had a few months building her security back up and maybe just maybe she (nor I) should be as deceptively secure as we thought we were.

I believe it`s unhealthy to feel as if you will stay together "No matter what" as that`s a blue print for being taken for granted.

We all have "conditions/boundaries", we should discuss them more often.


----------



## Feisty53 (May 27, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> Nah, healthy boundaries are necessary. Sometimes security comes from testing a boundary and finding it firm. Isn't there security in knowing exactly where/what boundaries are and exactly how far you can push before they push back?
> 
> However, between this and another of OP's threads, it seems his wife's insecurity is stemming from fear of abandonment due to multiple threats of divorce. If she is afraid of abandonment, she may feel compelled to continue testing to reassure herself that she will not be abandoned. She won't feel secure in the relationship unless she finds the boundaries reasonable (i.e. not "If you ever disagree with me, I'll leave") and predictable enough for her not to constantly feel as if she's walking on eggshells trying to avoid the next landmine. If she feels the boundaries are too petty, unreasonable, or unpredictable, she might continue to feel emotionally unsafe and test those boundaries as a way of testing his love for her.
> 
> ...


This is entirely true. I have, in the past, repeatedly set up some kind of test in my head, to see if he is sincere. His I want to stay married now I don't routine has left me with a pretty shaky foundation, although enough time has passed and I am now strong enough to run not walk out the door if he EVER says get out again. He has NEVER done anything that even remotely says I will fight for you. ever. It's sad, really.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't know if women are allowed to post in here. If not, please let me know and forgive my trespass. I'll respect the norms. 

I felt compelled to reply to this one, though. Many years ago, I developed some firm boundaries that I swore I wouldn't let anyone violate. I upheld them, frequently with the "there's the door" mentality. I've left others far more often than they've left me, and I've shut the door on non-romantic relationships, too. 

For the most part, I don't regret it. However, I've recognized that the harm you talk about is long-lasting and threatening to the person who hears the ultimatums. 

Over time, I came to recognize that I was really engaging in an act of overpowering my partner to gain control. I did not want that to be part of how I relate to people, and did a lot of soul searching over it. I didn't just protect myself with it, I protected myself unreasonably. 

Boundaries are things you wouldn't accept from ANYONE that comes into your life. I wouldn't let my partner slap me and I wouldn't let a clerk at the store do it, either. Boundaries are consistent ways of interacting with the entire world - not just my partner. If they're not consistent that way, I recognize it now as a control issue. 

Because of that, I've learned to withhold threats. Instead of speaking about them, if it's so bad that I need to go, I'm packing before anyone knows what's on my mind. By that time, I've reflected enough to realize that I cannot accept whatever is happening and still uphold my values and safety. I've exhausted every other avenue of upholding my boundaries, and at that point, I no longer need to worry about the damage it can cause because the relationship is over - no turning back. 

I will still tell someone they have the option to leave if they don't like the boundaries I've set, though.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Boundaries are things you wouldn't accept from ANYONE that comes into your life. I wouldn't let my partner slap me and I wouldn't let a clerk at the store do it, either. Boundaries are consistent ways of interacting with the entire world - not just my partner. If they're not consistent that way, I recognize it now as a control issue.


I understand the gist of your post and agree with much of it but the part quoted above doesn`t make sense to me.

Are you saying you have the same boundaries in place with your lover that you have in place with your friends, co-workers, acquaintances?

I don`t see how that`s possible.

I have a boundary with my wife, she cannot date another man.
If she does and refuses to stop I will divorce her.
This is written in stone.

So if my boss starts dating another man I should quit my job?

I know I`m being a bit ridiculous but I don`t understand how you can have "the same" boundaries for everyone in your life.

How does that work?


----------

