# When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair?

By: Katie Lersch: I often hear from wives who are extremely frustrated because they are not seeing a lot of remorse in the days following the discovery of an affair. They often expect for their husbands to immediately express remorse, but this doesn’t always happen. And this lack of immediate remorse can leave them wondering if they are going to see any sorrow at all, and, if so, when.

I heard from a wife who said: “two days ago, my husband admitted to an affair. He told me this news in a very matter of fact way and in a somewhat cold tone. He pretty much just made the announcement and waited for my response. He didn’t offer any explanations or apologies. This is weird to me because a year ago, our best friends went through infidelity and my husband was completely outraged at the unfaithful husband’s behavior. He expressed disappointment that the husband would act with such a lack of integrity or sincerity. But now, here my husband is acting in the same way and he is not showing any remorse at all. My friend said that if I give him some time, I will probably begin to get some apologies from him. Is she right? When should I expect to see his sorrow? When does the remorse begin?” I will try to address these concerns in the following article.

Remorse Follows A Varying Timeline: Unfortunately, it is very difficult to give a definitive answer about remorse. Because when you see it often depends upon the personality of the person being unfaithful, their reasons for cheating, and where they are in the other relationship. For example, if the affair is still intense and current, then you may not see a lot of remorse until the relationship begins to cool down. Because people often need to understand that the affair is a horrible mistake so that they can feel remorse for it.

But if they think that the relationship is a positive in their life that makes them happier, then they will typically attempt to justify it or refuse to be sorry about it. As unfortunate as this is, the good news is that often, with time as the affair cools down or the true nature of the other person and the relationship becomes apparent, they will often gain a new perspective on the affair. As a result, they eventually come to regret it. And when they do, this is when the remorse often begins.

Sometimes, People Don’t Let Their Spouses See Their Remorse Because They Think It Is A Sign Or Weakness Or They Assume That It Weakens Their Position: Sometimes, you will see spouses who are sort of indignant after an affair. They seem to have a cold and uncaring attitude as was the case of this husband. Many times, the faithful spouse will see this attitude and assume that the cheating spouse isn’t sorry or just doesn’t care about the marriage anymore. This isn’t always the case. Sometimes, the cheating spouse is posturing to a degree. They figure that if they get all emotional and fall over themselves showing remorse, then the faithful spouse will pile on the guilt and will expect to see more of the same type of subservient behavior.

Their thought process is that if they make it clear that they are not going to show weakness early on, then the faithful spouse’s expectations and demands will be lower so that recovery will be much easier for them. Very few people welcome knowing that they are going to have to express sorrow regularly or grovel for their spouse’s forgiveness. They would rather try to see if they can set the tone early.

What Are You Options When You Are Not Seeing Remorse Quickly Enough: It’s my experience that most faithful spouses (including myself) want and demand to see remorse sooner rather than later. When you see it will sometimes depend upon how the affair is progressing or if it is truly over to the point where the unfaithful spouse can truly understand what a mistake that they have made and can therefore begin to feel sorrow. If you don’t think your spouse is at this point yet, you may have to wait a bit. But that doesn’t mean you can’t make it clear that you expect to see it at some point in the very near future.

For example, the wife in this scenario might look for a time to say something like: “I can’t help but notice that I’m not seeing and hearing a lot of remorse from you about the affair. I realize that the emotions are still fresh and you may be as confused as I am. But you need to understand that I’m going to need to see some remorse from you before I can begin to move forward toward recovery. I need to truly believe that you are genuinely and completely sorry before I can even think about trust you again. When you have progressed enough where you’re more comfortable expressing that remorse, then let me know.”

You may have noticed that I tried to keep the tone matter of fact, mirroring the husband’s tone. I didn’t berate or try to shame him (since this was likely to make him feel defensive.) Instead, I told him what I expected and how to reach out once he got to that point. It’s my experience that you will have more success with this approach than with trying to shame, guilt, or force him into claiming emotions that he is not yet ready to express.

So to answer the question posed, remorse can begin even before the affair is over, but sometimes it takes a good deal longer. A lot of this depends upon the situation and the people involved. And sometimes the faithful spouse will need to make it clear that remorse is not only expected, it is necessary.

I didn’t always see the kind of remorse that I wanted throughout our recovery. Once I made it clear that this was nonnegotiable, things began to chance. I also learned to use positive reinforcement instead or relying on guilt and shame, and this helped a good deal.


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

You could ask some of your female friends who have had affairs, as women act like this too. No doubt they will tell you about their horrible unattentive husbands neglecting them, which may or may not be true. It's the same BS that cheating men come out with.


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

Also even if your husband does show "remorse" it might only be because you expect it, not because he actually feels any.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

My wife acted like this, the only response to this behavior is yo immediately file for D and that usually awakens them up

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> My wife acted like this, the only response to this behavior is yo immediately file for D and that usually awakens them up
> 
> Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


Can you be sure they are awake or just afraid of losing their comfortable life and half their sh!t?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Good Guy said:


> You could ask some of your female friends who have had affairs, as women act like this too. No doubt they will tell you about their horrible unattentive husbands neglecting them, which may or may not be true. It's the same BS that cheating men come out with.





Good Guy said:


> Also even if your husband does show "remorse" it might only be because you expect it, not because he actually feels any.


It is astounding how cheaters fool around and then act like they TOO are the victims in all of this...if you read other sites where WWs roam free it is an eye opener as to their selfishness and their lack of empathy...they are the first to scream for civility AFTER they trashed their marriage, their reputation and damaged their BS...now they suddenly discover boundaries and the need to act in a moral upright manner..it is truly astounding how anyone can R with these folks...


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair? In about 3-5 years when they realize the role they played and the almost or did cashier the one that really cares about them. Anything earlier is like me getting caught stealing packs of gum when I was a kid. I wasn't remorseful for stealing. I was remorseful for the pain it caused....*me.*


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It might also depend how the affair ended. If the cheater was ''caught'' cheating, and then is obligated to end the affair (but it would have continued going along, if they hadn't been caught), not sure I'd ever be able to really believe that they are truly remorseful, or just coming back because their fantasy came to an abrupt halt.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I honestly believe that there is never a sense of true remorse for spousal cheating! I greatly think that a sense of "gaslighting" always takes place by the cheater, and that they will feverishly cleave to that until such time that the cows literally come wandering back home!

Or at least until such time that the incontrovertible truth of the affair details come floating out into the open! 

But even if the truth is absolute, there will always be a sense of safety and coverup that the BS will feel obliged in employing ~ and mostly to try to save face and reputation!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Here's my FWS's .02 cents worth. Genuine remorse cannot be shamed, demanded, or forced from a WS. Remorse may manifest itself in actions, but if those actions aren't backed with real feelings, it won't last, and the BS will be left with those niggling doubts about the WS's sincerity, and their instincts will be correct.

By the same token, if a WS is genuinely remorseful (and, if their _genuine remorse_ occurs the moment the betrayal is discovered, or very soon thereafter, it's not genuine, IMHO) the BS will not have to beg, plead, cajole, demand, or threaten it out of the WS. When a WS is genuinely remorseful, they will want nothing more than to help their BS heal. Their words and their actions will be healing, comforting, reassuring, confidence building, and centered around the health and well being of their BS whether reconciliation is likely or not.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

EI said:


> By the same token, if a WS is genuinely remorseful *(and, if their genuine remorse occurs the moment the betrayal is discovered, or very soon thereafter, it's not genuine, IMHO)* the BS will not have to beg, plead, cajole, demand, or threaten it out of the WS. When a WS is genuinely remorseful, they will want nothing more than to help their BS heal. Their words and their actions will be healing, comforting, reassuring, confidence building, and centered around the health and well being of their BS whether reconciliation is likely or not.


EI,

When I first read this, I questioned, but in retrospect you are very correct.

I get what you are saying _"it's not genuine, IMHO"_. The moment the betrayal is discovered is more likely guilt, shame, and a large dose of _"oh sh!t, what now Buckwheat!". _I think real remorse has to be internalized and that takes time. This is especially true in LTA where the WS has been rationalizing and justifying their actions for years on end. 

In my case, my WW had been serially cheating on and off for years when finally caught. I had years of cheating details all wrapped up in a month of email exchange (last OM and her liked to cry on each others shoulders). Things written about me and our marriage cut sharp to the bone.

DD+24hours, my WW is pleading, begging for mercy, a chance. I was emotionally done with her. Our children wanted nothing to do with her and refused to speak or see her. OM had his own issues with wife and family and his KISA appearance quickly faded. After 30 years of marriage, a family, a home, she is alone. It literally took months for the Shock to subside, then the internalization and gravity of the betrayal remained and true remorse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some people experience remorse and some people don't -- and although they may pretend to, their actions say differently. I was in R for 30 years before my divorce and my ex-husband early on apologized for "mistakes" but that was it. A few days before his death he apologized again but that could have been because I had apologized for my role in the demise of our marriage. I'm glad I said what I did when I did although at the time neither of us know he would die a few days later. The slate was wiped clean for me. 

The truth is his actions never really matched his words. I know that he greatly wished I hadn't found out, and he definitely didn't want a divorce, but I don't know how much real remorse there was. It no longer matters but if I could get that time back over 30 years ago when DD1 occurred, I would have gotten out then and not waited for DD2 decades later. We live and learn.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sometimes it starts during the affair, which is why the affair ends.

Other times it can be this week, next week, sometime, never.


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## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair? In about 3-5 years when they realize the role they played and the almost or did cashier the one that really cares about them. Anything earlier is like me getting caught stealing packs of gum when I was a kid. I wasn't remorseful for stealing. I was remorseful for the pain it caused....*me.*


Ok, I'm only a year after DDay so maybe my WW will one day express remorse, but that kind of time scale makes it unlikely that the BS will still be there to finally hear the remorse when it finally arrives! 

And I'm sure you're right for the early remorse scenario too - my WS, when challenged on whether she felt regret for what she had done, actually said "How can I regret something that felt so good!?" Have to give the hussy full marks for honesty, but that comment hurt like hell and won't be forgotten......


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Florida_rosbif said:


> Ok, I'm only a year after DDay so maybe my WW will one day express remorse, but that kind of time scale makes it unlikely that the BS will still be there to finally hear the remorse when it finally arrives!
> 
> And I'm sure you're right for the early remorse scenario too - my WS, when challenged on whether she felt regret for what she had done, actually said "How can I regret something that felt so good!?" Have to give the hussy full marks for honesty, but that comment hurt like hell and won't be forgotten......













"Thank you, my dear wife, for introducing me to the bottomless pit of infinite marital misery."


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Can you be sure they are awake or just afraid of losing their comfortable life and half their sh!t?





*Deidre* said:


> It might also depend how the affair ended. If the cheater was ''caught'' cheating, and then is obligated to end the affair (but it would have continued going along, if they hadn't been caught), not sure I'd ever be able to really believe that they are truly remorseful, or just coming back because their fantasy came to an abrupt halt.


Agree with both of these. Just THINK about how egregious cheating really is. EVERYTHING it entails to get to that point of fvcking someone else.

If you are brazen enough to break your vows and sleep around behind your spouses back, the odds of you being really remorseful about it are slim to none.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> Agree with both of these. Just THINK about how egregious cheating really is. EVERYTHING it entails to get to that point of fvcking someone else.
> 
> If you are brazen enough to break your vows and sleep around behind your spouses back, the odds of you being really remorseful about it are slim to none.


And this is where I always get stuck with WS apologies, remorse, reconciliation...all of it. Most of the time the affair is discovered and exposed. So are you really getting them sorry and remorseful about what they did or that they got caught. I have never known a case personally where someone was cheating and voluntarily came forward and admitted it. Really don't know how anyone could trust that again to be honest


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

My XWW never showed any remorse, just regret for being caught and the ramifications that came with it. I'm actually glad because it made it easier to divorce her. 
@Florida_rosbif why did you stay married to her if she didn't express remorse?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> And this is where I always get stuck with WS apologies, remorse, reconciliation...all of it. Most of the time the affair is discovered and exposed. So are you really getting them sorry and remorseful about what they did or that they got caught. I have never known a case personally where someone was cheating and voluntarily came forward and admitted it. Really don't know how anyone could trust that again to be honest


Completely agreed. That's why its better to err on the side of caution and divorce them imo. The trust is gone so you MUST assume the worst.

The ONLY plausible scenario of a remorseful cheater is as you stated, "where someone was cheating and voluntarily came forward and admitted it."

As you also eluded too, how often does THAT actually happen here or in real life?!? Practically never.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Can you be sure they are awake or just afraid of losing their comfortable life and half their sh!t?


I'd tend to think the latter. Most of the time when it comes to this they have already thought about the end game.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

It's interesting. If you have read @Lonely husband 42301's thread, it shows a different dynamic. In that case, the BH suspected and confronted, got confirmation, and walked away. Regret came, and I believe remorse quickly followed. Her remorse softened LH's heart and R was possible (currently in process).

Why was that different? I think the WW actually felt emotionally abandoned prior to the A and fell into the arms of a dog that read the situation correctly. So I believe his WW was a weak woman, and didn't act out of strength, like some of the WS appear to when they build resentment and act out through an A. Perhaps seeking an A versus allowing oneself to be seduced might be part of the difference.

Idk



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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Completely agreed. That's why its better to err on the side of caution and divorce them imo. The trust is gone so you MUST assume the worst.
> 
> The ONLY plausible scenario of a remorseful cheater is as you stated, "where someone was cheating and voluntarily came forward and admitted it."
> 
> As you also eluded too, how often does THAT actually happen here or in real life?!? Practically never.


It did happen to me, though now you mention it, that *is* quite rare, isn't it?


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## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> My XWW never showed any remorse, just regret for being caught and the ramifications that came with it. I'm actually glad because it made it easier to divorce her.
> 
> @Florida_rosbif why did you stay married to her if she didn't express remorse?


It's a long story Bananapeel - still here for my kids because of circumstances, but life is pretty ****!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It will all depend on how detached the WS is/was from his/her BS -- and how attached he/she is/was from OM/OW -- upon D-Day.

Where the pathologically immoral are concerned, though, it probably won't happen.

As in _ever_.

And the "remorse" that's observed upon filing for divorce and/or implementing the 180...?

That ain't remorse. That's a learned response brought on by the panic associated w/ a keen self-preservation instinct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Florida_rosbif said:


> Ok, I'm only a year after DDay so maybe my WW will one day express remorse, but that kind of time scale makes it unlikely that the BS will still be there to finally hear the remorse when it finally arrives!
> 
> And I'm sure you're right for the early remorse scenario too - my WS, when challenged on whether she felt regret for what she had done, actually said "How can I regret something that felt so good!?" Have to give the hussy full marks for honesty, but that comment hurt like hell and won't be forgotten......


Yeah, I'd divorce her pronto.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I think that there are four categories of remorse/non-remorse that WS's display:

1 - The WS that is genuinely remorseful and demonstrates it immediately. (Rare)

2 - The WS that is still in an affair fog and attempts to fake remorse until it eventually becomes genuine. 

3 - The WS that is not genuinely remorseful but pretends to be for a period of time. 

4 - The WS that is not genuinely remorseful and doesn't try or barely tries to pretend it. 


This all assumes that genuine remorse, if it can be faked it all, can't be faked for long. At least that's what I believe. The time when remorse begins depends on the category - maybe never.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I've always said, and still believe, that true and genuine remorse is very, very rare.

I think a lot of cheaters pretend to have it because they know their BS expects it (or the self help books they've been forced to read tell them they have to show it) or the 5 years of marriage counseling, individual therapy, support groups, their Retrouvaille Marriage Encounter weekend, and every other 'self help' entity they're required to attend after D-Day tells them they have to have it.

Doesn't mean they _do_.

But if 'remorse' keeps them out of divorce court and from paying spousal support, child support, losing half their assets and possibly a portion of their retirement and/or a piece of their self-owned business that they started, then you'd better *believe* the 'remorse' will be flowing from the taps. 

How does someone go from months and/or YEARS of lying to their BS's face, hiding things, faking things, manipulating things, orchestrating things, creating false realities, telling thousands of little white lies on a daily basis in order to keep their secret, crawl out of their affair partner's bed and go home and nonchalantly watch Big Bang Theory with their spouse, and do the hundreds of sneaky and deceitful things that are necessary in order to keep their secret life a secret - and be TOTALLY FINE with it - and then feel 'remorse' for it only *after* they're caught? Such a crock.

And admittedly, there are BS's everywhere who actually think their cheater is 'remorseful.' Said cheater was cruising along just fine in their year-long affair on Tuesday and D-Day happened on Wednesday, but now that their BS *knows* their dirty deeds, they're suddenly overcome with _remorse_ when just the day *before*, they were totally fine lying to their spouse to get out for a quickie with their affair partner? LOL, yeah, ok.

I think cheaters will pretty much fake whatever contrition their BS wants from them, if it will keep them from being thrown out the front door to the curb (which is where they belong).


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

When remorse happens, I think it is remorse over hurting the spouse you love and who loves you - it isn't likely to be for having the affair, because that was enjoyable and exciting. In retrospect, I suppose one could rewrite the affair history to make it seem bad, just as some rewrite the marital history to "justify" the affair. Sometimes the marriage/affair was good/bad - reality changes when memory rewrites (and sometimes re-rewrites!) the past.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

she'sstillgotit said:


> how does someone go from months and/or years of lying to their bs's face, hiding things, faking things, manipulating things, orchestrating things, creating false realities, telling thousands of little white lies on a daily basis in order to keep their secret, crawl out of their affair partner's bed and go home and nonchalantly watch big bang theory with their spouse, and do the hundreds of sneaky and deceitful things that are necessary in order to keep their secret life a secret - and be totally fine with it - and then feel 'remorse' for it only *after* they're caught? Such a crock.


Exactly. Complete bullsh!t.



she'sstillgotit said:


> And admittedly, there are BS's everywhere who actually think their cheater is 'remorseful.' Said cheater was cruising along just fine in their year-long affair on Tuesday and D-Day happened on Wednesday, but now that their BS knows their dirty deeds, they're suddenly overcome with remorse when just the day before, they were totally fine lying to their spouse to get out for a quickie with their affair partner? LOL, yeah, ok.


Trauma. They are so devastated, they become desperate to believe anything just to make the crushing PAIN go away. 

They will blame themselves, they will say the AP preyed on their spouse, they will accept the most fantastical excuses. 

Really, really sad stuff.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> I have never known a case personally where someone was cheating and voluntarily came forward and admitted it.


Then you haven't been paying attention.

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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> When remorse happens, I think it is remorse over hurting the spouse you love and who loves you - it isn't likely to be for having the affair, because that was enjoyable and exciting.


Of course. I can have real remorse for eating a second helping of cake after dinner. Doesn't mean it didn't taste good while I was eating it. Having real remorse doesn't require me to not have enjoyed the remorse causing act.

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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Of course. I can have real remorse for eating a second helping of cake after dinner. Doesn't mean it didn't taste good while I was eating it. Having real remorse doesn't require me to not have enjoyed the remorse causing act.


Is that feeling "remorse" or is it "regret"? In my vocabulary usage, remorse means to feel sorry to someone, while regret means to wish that I had not done something.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> Is that feeling "remorse" or is it "regret"? In my vocabulary usage, remorse means to feel sorry to someone, while regret means to wish that I had not done something.


Why not both? I can feel remorse for my spouse for hurting her and our marriage while feeling regret for having done it.

Neither of these require one to rewrite history and claim that it wasn't enjoyable in the moment, nor that it isn't remembered as such if that's what someone is using as a skewed definition of "real" remorse.

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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Neither of these require one to rewrite history and claim that it wasn't enjoyable in the moment, nor that it isn't remembered as such if that's what someone is using as a skewed definition of "real" remorse.


The difference is how you feel about it afterwards. Of course it was enjoyed in the moment or else they would not of done it. 

However, does the thought of it in hindsight make you want to vomit or do you relieve the moments in your mind like a treasured memory?

There is no real remorse with the latter. The pain you caused the other person SHOULD negate any fond memories you had of the immoral activities.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Why not both? I can feel remorse for my spouse for hurting her and our marriage while feeling regret for having done it.
> 
> Neither of these require one to rewrite history and claim that it wasn't enjoyable in the moment, nor that it isn't remembered as such if that's what someone is using as a skewed definition of "real" remorse.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Yes, of course, one can often feel both remorse and regret. My comment was about the usage of the word remorse to describe the feeling after eating too much cake.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> When remorse happens, I think it is remorse over hurting the spouse you love and who loves you - it isn't likely to be for having the affair, because that was enjoyable and exciting. In retrospect, I suppose one could rewrite the affair history to make it seem bad, just as some rewrite the marital history to "justify" the affair. Sometimes the marriage/affair was good/bad - reality changes when memory rewrites (and sometimes re-rewrites!) the past.


I tend to agree - the WS did in fact enjoy the affair especially if it was an affair that comprised multiple encounters. I find it hard to believe a WS didn't enjoy an affair that lasted several months or multiple years. Really? If it wasn't pleasurable why would you keep going back dozens of times. when a WS says they didn't really enjoy it or it *wasn't that great* despite the fact that it lasted for years I usually doubt their honesty. I get why they would say it and I get why a BS would want to believe it. It's hard to cope with your spouse lusting after someone so strongly that they would risk their entire life for repeated sexual encounters with their lover. That stuff is not pretty to think about but it doesn't make it any less true.

I am also skeptical of remorse immediately after being caught. i think that is panic more than true remorse. Can it happen? Sure but I don't know how common it is.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Then you haven't been paying attention.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


How so?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Personal said:


> Well it happened to me with my ex (first) wife, I had just come back from an Army course, when she confessed with immense remorse and extraordinary supplication, her physical infidelity at a party while I was away.
> 
> If she didn't tell me, it is highly likely I would never have known about it.
> 
> ...


Well I have never seen genuine remorse from a cheater personally but I have only known less than a dozen so our experiences must be different


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## SadDaisy (Sep 16, 2015)

It came the next day.
It was terrifying (the remorse was).


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> The difference is how you feel about it afterwards. Of course it was enjoyed in the moment or else they would not of done it.
> 
> However, does the thought of it in hindsight make you want to vomit or do you relieve the moments in your mind like a treasured memory?
> 
> There is no real remorse with the latter. The pain you caused the other person SHOULD negate any fond memories you had of the immoral activities.





Wolf1974 said:


> Well I have never seen genuine remorse from a cheater personally but I have only known less than a dozen so our experiences must be different



I think very, very few cheaters actually ever get it - without being cheated on themselves. They can empathize up to a point but the don't really get and I mean "in their gut" what they have done to their BS. Ever hear about a cheater who becomes a madhatter - boy do they whine and whine and whine.At that moment they truly get what they have done and boy do they not like it - some even doubting they could extend the same forgiveness they just aksed for. 

I think some, probably the minority, do feel geunine remorse over time if they love their BS but I don't think it is possible without hard work and a lot of introspection. It takes work for someone who displays this kind of selfishness and self-centeredness to turn around and focus on someone else which is why I tink true R is rare and "the marriage is now ok" is more the norm.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> How does someone go from months and/or YEARS of lying to their BS's face, hiding things, faking things, manipulating things, orchestrating things, creating false realities, telling thousands of little white lies on a daily basis in order to keep their secret, *crawl out of their affair partner's bed and go home and nonchalantly watch Big Bang Theory with their spouse, and do the hundreds of sneaky and deceitful things that are necessary in order to keep their secret life a secret - and be TOTALLY FINE with it* - and then feel 'remorse' for it only after they're caught? Such a crock.


Your obviously talking about my WW. :smile2:

_"and be TOTALLY FINE with it"... _I ask this exact question post DD. She said that she had gone crazy! My grown daughter countered immediately... you have been cheating for years and seem pretty normal to me.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think very, very few cheaters actually ever get it - without being cheated on themselves. They can empathize up to a point but the don't really get and I mean "in their gut" what they have done to their BS. Ever hear about a cheater who becomes a madhatter - boy do they whine and whine and whine.At that moment they truly get what they have done and boy do they not like it - some even doubting they could extend the same forgiveness they just aksed for.
> 
> I think some, probably the minority, do feel geunine remorse over time if they love their BS but I don't think it is possible without hard work and a lot of introspection. It takes work for someone who displays this kind of selfishness and self-centeredness to turn around and focus on someone else which is why I tink true R is rare and "the marriage is now ok" is more the norm.


Agreed. I think maybe a slight few feel the remorse. But all I have met personally are low character and simply justify their situation. My favorite people here are the ones that state that it's some Herculean effort not to cheat....I mean come on you can't make this stuff up right :surprise:


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> My favorite people here are the ones that state that it's some Herculean effort not to cheat....I mean come on you can't make this stuff up right :surprise:


Hahaha you mean the, "EVERYONE would cheat given the right circumstances" crowd? 

They are so pathetic..... Just goes to show how vacuous some people's lives are.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> How so?


There are people active in this forum right now who can provide an example.

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Agreed. I think maybe a slight few feel the remorse. But all I have met personally are low character and simply justify their situation. My favorite people here are the ones that state that it's some Herculean effort not to cheat....I mean come on you can't make this stuff up right :surprise:


In my personal life I've known many couples where there was infidelity and in most if not all cases some form of rug sweeping went on. People can find a justification for all sorts of sh!tty behavior but few step up with true remorse and seek to make up for it as best they can. Can a WS every fully make up for it? No. Most don't really want to - they simply want to move on with or without their BS. That is why as sh!tty as it is the BS must do what they need to do to heal themselves. Ever read the wayward section at other sites - you see WSs more concerned with themselves than anything else - I've read cases where people who have carried on affairs with multiple partners who are in some form of R who just don't get it and never will. they sign in to whine about their life - it is sickening really.



BetrayedDad said:


> Hahaha you mean the, "EVERYONE would cheat given the right circumstances" crowd?


The reason why I find that hard to believe if not outright fale is those BSs were in the same sh!tty marriage but didn't cheat -- why is that?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The reason why I find that hard to believe if not outright false is those BSs were in the same sh!tty marriage but didn't cheat -- why is that?


Because the BS's were monsters who abused the WS so badly they had no other choice but to cheat on them. 

Duh.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Because the BS's were monsters who abused the WS so badly they had no other choice but to cheat on them.
> 
> Duh.


I've heard that - and while its true sometimes the BS was a monster in many more cases they were not, I'd wager to say in most cases where infidelity occurs the marriage may not have been ideal but no way did the BS deserve to be scarred for life. When I read some WSs on other sites and they moan about how p!ssed off and nasty their BS is after dday I scratch my head and think - what did you expect? I don't know what is worse their moaning or the BSs who chime in to tell them how "unfair" it is that their BS is nasty to them.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've heard that - and while its true sometimes the BS was a monster in many more cases they were not, I'd wager to say in most cases where infidelity occurs the marriage may not have been ideal but no way did the BS deserve to be scarred for life. When I read some WSs on other sites and they moan about how p!ssed off and nasty their BS is after dday I scratch my head and think - what did you expect? I don't know what is worse their moaning or the BSs who chime in to tell them how "unfair" it is that their BS is nasty to them.


I'd wager my mortgage payment both of them were far from perfect and they both did crappy things. 

One person wa just more of a self-entitled a$$hole than the other. Most WS will not own their 50%.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> I'd wager my mortgage payment both of them were far from perfect and they both did crappy things.


I agree 100%. Like I stated earlier I think true blue remorse is rare and the BS has to live with that whether they stay or go. When a WS says they "didn't mean to hurt" their BS well what the fvck did you think shagging someone else was going to do? I mean come on and cut the bullsh!t - I read one case where the BS fvcked their lover in their marital bed until caught and had thenerve to communicate to their BS that they knew they'd be p!ssed but thought the marriage was strong enough to survive the affair. Can you believe that bullsh!t?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I read one case where the BS fvcked their lover in their marital bed until caught and had thenerve to communicate to their BS that they knew they'd be p!ssed but thought the marriage was strong enough to survive the affair. Can you believe that bullsh!t?


See that marital bed thing is really passive aggressive HATRED of your spouse...

Next level stuff. A complete and utter lack of ANY feeling or respect towards them.

But cheaters are cowards so rather than confront, this is the next best thing to "get you".

It's the moral equivalent of dunking your toothbrush in the toilet without telling you.

No WS will EVER have true remorse, if they are will to bang someone where you sleep.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> See that marital bed thing is really passive aggressive HATRED of your spouse...
> 
> Next level stuff. A complete and utter lack of ANY feeling or respect towards them.


I agree I'd add in the same house but especially in the same bed is the absolute height of disrespect for your BS. I dont know how you forgive that especially if it was a LTA. Think about it..your WS had sex in the same room or rooms in which you sleep, watch tv, etc - that shows a real lack of conscience doesn't it? It is bad enough when a Ws uses marital resources to finance their affair but to do it in your house - that is just real gutter sh!t. I dont know how you ever respect your WS again after they fvcked someone in your own house.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I agree 100%. Like I stated earlier I think true blue remorse is rare and the BS has to live with that whether they stay or go. When a WS says they "didn't mean to hurt" their BS well what the fvck did you think shagging someone else was going to do? I mean come on and cut the bullsh!t - I read one case where the BS fvcked their lover in their marital bed until caught and had thenerve to communicate to their BS that they knew they'd be p!ssed but thought the marriage was strong enough to survive the affair. Can you believe that bullsh!t?


Is very easy actually to do selfish things w/o thinking of the impact to others.....
look I have never said this on here but I fell for pain killer addiction for 2 years long before my W affair.....the parallels between drug addiction and infidelity are incredibly similar as we all know the same brain chemistry is at play. 
I didn't care about much except for making sure I had my pills and did almost whatever it took to get them, so I could have my next good feeling selfish fix....not once did I think of any possible impact to my wide and kids, even if indirectly , I simply didn't think I was hurting them in any way, this was just my thing, my own affair with my drug (AP). 

Now that I let that out, ironically, I think there is something hideous and sickening about infidelity like no other.....am here as a BS in R for 3 years now, and it's also ironic of me to say this since I have not being there, but if my W had sex with AP on our marital bed I really doubt I could get over that......then again I thought I couldn't get over being cheated on until it happened.

I tell u something thou, as much painful and devastating as it has been for the past 3 years to be in R, getting over being cheated on, I'll take it gladly anytime over the horrific and undescribeble nightmare of pain killer addiction withdrawal, that was an event I can never survive again, there are just no words to describe it that do it any justice....


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Is very easy actually to do selfish things w/o thinking of the impact to others.....
> look I have never said this on here but I fell for pain killer addiction for 2 years long before my W affair.....the parallels between drug addiction and infidelity are incredibly similar as we all know the same brain chemistry is at play.
> I didn't care about much except for making sure I had my pills and did almost whatever it took to get them, so I could have my next good feeling selfish fix....not once did I think of any possible impact to my wide and kids, even if indirectly , I simply didn't think I was hurting them in any way, this was just my thing, my own affair with my drug (AP).


Cheaters know right from wrong. They just don't care if you are wronged. Most get off on it.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> Cheaters know right from wrong. They just don't care if you are wronged. Most get off on it.


I think you are thinking that they have their BS in their mind much or think of them at all....they dont for the most part, they are too busy having fun and enjoying the pleasure to be spoiling it with spending any time thinking about their BS, and if they do think about their BS they have already come up with 1,000 justifications that their BS doesnt care about them, etc......infidelity is not that complex, IMHO, it gets made to look all complicated and what not, it really isnt....at its very core is just extreme selfishness, I believe thats all that it is.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> There are people active in this forum right now who can provide an example.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Missed the part where I said personally then I guess. Personally meaning I know them and both sides of the story. I have seen, both in real life and here, enough gas lighting and trickle truths from WS that I wonder if the BS was posting if both stories would "match up"so to speak


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> *See that marital bed thing is really passive aggressive HATRED of your spouse...*
> 
> Next level stuff. A complete and utter lack of ANY feeling or respect towards them.
> 
> ...


yep that's what my x did, in our bed with our children sleeping in the next room. And then she wonders why I told her she was a bad mother and had zero character...statement I stand by today. That is next level selfish **** right there. I don't care what anyone says you are pond scum to do that to your kids and spouse in the house like that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Cheaters know right from wrong. They just don't care if you are wronged. Most get off on it.


WTF?

What's with this propensity here for everyone to claim some special knowledge about cheaters? "All cheaters get off on wronging others" . "All cheaters never actually feel remorse". "All cheaters eat their young".

Is everyone having fun waging a holy war on this group as a collective? I understand that it requires a lot less mental effort to group everyone under the same umbrella so you can feel superior with a minimum of expended effort, and that vilification is a time honored way to avoid learning about anyone's personal story and circumstances. But Christ, it's like amateur night at a Psychology summit around here.

You don't like cheaters. You think they're pond scum. Check. Got it. I even understand why. But since when did everyone become a mental health expert? Which of you collected the demographic data to back up these wild-ass theories about people you don't even know personally?

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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I think you are thinking that they have their BS in their mind much or think of them at all....they dont for the most part, they are too busy having fun and enjoying the pleasure to be spoiling it with spending any time thinking about their BS, and if they do think about their BS they have already come up with 1,000 justifications that their BS doesnt care about them, etc......infidelity is not that complex, IMHO, it gets made to look all complicated and what not, it really isnt....at its very core is just extreme selfishness, I believe thats all that it is.


My WS told me and projected for the most part exactly what you said. On the surface, it's easy to believe. 

And I don't think you are wrong, in fact I agree with you. I do think there's an extra layer. It's a little more than that.

Even if I thought of my spouse as a total stranger, human decency alone would prevent me from acting so callous.

There is most definitely a seed of hatred. An urge to hurt the person at the expense of making themselves feel better.

They do as you said, drown themselves in the fantasy but it's that hatred that makes them take the dive in first place.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> WTF?
> 
> What's with this propensity here for everyone to claim some special knowledge about cheaters? "All cheaters get off on wronging others" . "All cheaters never actually feel remorse". "All cheaters eat their young".


What are you talking about?

It is COMMON knowledge. Cheaters get off on the illicitness of the affair. The sneaking around, the lies, the perception of being naughty. It props there over inflated egos up.

How is this news to you?

I don't claim 100% of cheaters don't feel remorse. But let's put it this way, 90% is a conservative number.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> yep that's what my x did, in our bed with our children sleeping in the next room. And then she wonders why I told her she was a bad mother and had zero character...statement I stand by today. That is next level selfish **** right there. I don't care what anyone says you are pond scum to do that to your kids and spouse in the house like that.


Wow...in your bed with the kids sleeping in the next room? What a pure POS! cheating in the house is bad enough but with the kids home? WTF?????? Calling them pond scum insults pond scum...>


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> WTF?
> 
> What's with this propensity here for everyone to claim some special knowledge about cheaters? "All cheaters get off on wronging others" . "All cheaters never actually feel remorse". "All cheaters eat their young".
> 
> ...


Well I LIVED it so know first hand what I saw. Then you learn others LIVED the same thing so add lots of validity to it. Don't need a phd to know when you make a promise and break it that's wrong. When you lie it's wrong. When you cheat it's wrong. I knew these things in life before 10. Others seem to never learn these lessons.


There is no holy war here. This section is coping with infidelity. You really, I mean truely, can't see why this hurts or upsets people? This is twice now in two different threads, one you started, that you are taking a way WAY to personal affront to what is being said. This isn't about you specifically and if you can't see that then all you will do is continue to project.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> There is no holy war here. This section is coping with infidelity.


There sure as hell is a holy war going on here, and the OP is one of its crusaders. Look back at the history of threads and tell me I'm wrong. There's no question here. No one is seeking knowledge or help or advice. There's not even the thinnest veneer of anything but directed hostility as the PRIMARY purpose of this thread.

It's a vehicle being used to provide a platform for piling on to a population unliked by most, with good reason. But it is absolutely the textbook definition of a holy war.

Enjoy the crusade.

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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> It is COMMON knowledge. Cheaters get off on the illicitness of the affair. The sneaking around, the lies, the perception of being naughty. It props there over inflated egos up.
> 
> .


It is not common knowledge to me.

Every affair has an individual story. Anyone claiming some sort of theory of cheaters is waving around a pop psych degree like it was from Harvard Law. 

The world will defy every attempt to reduce it to the simplicity you would like to impose over it.

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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Selfishness I think is the common trait to them all, which I think we can all agree on

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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> There sure as hell is a holy war going on here, and the OP is one of its crusaders. Look back at the history of threads and tell me I'm wrong. There's no question here. No one is seeking knowledge or help or advice. There's not even the thinnest veneer of anything but directed hostility as the PRIMARY purpose of this thread.
> 
> It's a vehicle being used to provide a platform for piling on to a population unliked by most, with good reason. But it is absolutely the textbook definition of a holy war.
> 
> ...


Ok man I was trying to have a straight conversation with you but clearly you're not interested in doing anything but being defensive. Kinda hard to learn when your in that mode but we will just have to agree to disagree then. I have been here a long time and don't see it the way you do. 

I will go polish my crusader ware now 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok man I was trying to have a straight conversation with you but clearly you're not interested in doing anything but being defensive. Kinda hard to learn when your in that mode but we will just have to agree to disagree then. I have been here a long time and don't see it the way you do.
> 
> I will go polish my crusader ware now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm a crusader too..who knew? >

I thought the article was a pretty good starting point for discussion..the author really doesn't flame anyone.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok man I was trying to have a straight conversation with you but clearly you're not interested in doing anything but being defensive. Kinda hard to learn when your in that mode but we will just have to agree to disagree then. I have been here a long time and don't see it the way you do.
> 
> I will go polish my crusader ware now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I'm having a straight conversation with you.

Here's the tip of the iceberg of what I'm talking about. Come back with a straight face and tell me that these threads weren't *started* with any intent other than thinly veiled platforms to bash cheaters, those who support them, or the spouses considered stupid enough to reconcile with one. Tell me that I'm misinterpreting here and that I'm actually off-base in my assessment. These aren't poignant questions posed by anyone wanting to understand the complexities of infidelity or how weak spouses go astray. 

It's still a free country, and anyone can spend his time however he likes, but let's call a spade a spade, OK, and not hide our collective heads in the sand about it? 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/347361-dear-chump-lady-i-lost-moral-high-ground-when-i-told-people-my-wife-cheating.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/342418-chumplady-response-i-ve-changed.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/339137-i-left-my-husband-him-but-he-didn-t-return-favor.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/331802-science-vindicates-leave-cheater-gain-life.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/329001-ubt-cheating-symptom-not-disease.html


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I'm a crusader too..who knew? >


Pretty much everyone here who's been reading for more than a week.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> And I'm having a straight conversation with you.
> 
> Here's the tip of the iceberg of what I'm talking about. Come back with a straight face and tell me that these threads weren't *started* with any intent other than thinly veiled platforms to bash cheaters, those who support them, or the spouses considered stupid enough to reconcile with one. Tell me that I'm misinterpreting here and that I'm actually off-base in my assessment. These aren't poignant questions posed by anyone wanting to understand the complexities of infidelity or how weak spouses go astray.
> 
> ...


Wow...you've been monitoring my thread activities...you can simply block me or skip the threads I start...that is a pretty simple solution......


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow...you've been monitoring my thread activities...you can simply block me or skip the threads I start...that is a pretty simple solution......


Why? I'm not telling you to stop. I'm not monitoring anything - your posting history, like mine, is archived and easily searchable. But I have noticed. It would have been hard not to.

You are a crusader, man. I think even you'll admit to that in a candid moment. You treat me with reasonable respect, so I have no personal beef with you. I just hope one day you get past whatever demon is driving your obsession with this topic.

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Why? I'm not telling you to stop. I'm not monitoring anything - your posting history, like mine, is archived and easily searchable. But I have noticed. It would have been hard not to.
> 
> You are a crusader, man. I think even you'll admit to that in a candid moment. You treat me with reasonable respect, so I have no personal beef with you. I just hope one day you get past whatever demon is driving your obsession with this topic.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Wow nice dime store psychological analysis. Like I said you can block me or skip my threads but you seem to be the one who is animated about this not me. I post articles you don't like - ok - don't read them. It's fairly simple but I am sort of touched you took the time to look up my profile to analyze me. Thanks for the concern.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow nice dime store psychological analysis. Like I said you can block me or skip my threads but you seem to be the one who is animated about this not me. I post articles you don't like - ok - don't read them. It's fairly simple but I am sort of touched you took the time to look up my profile to analyze me. Thanks for the concern.


Dime store psychology? I won't even hazard a guess as to what motivates you. I'm no psychologist. I can only judge what you do here in public. 

Here, you are a crusader. It only matters because others are saying there's no such activity here. 

Yeah, there is.

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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Dime store psychology? I won't even hazard a guess as to what motivates you. I'm no psychologist. I can only judge what you do here in public.
> 
> Here, you are a crusader. It only matters because others are saying there's no such activity here.
> 
> ...


Well I'm glad you got that off your chest but you are the crusader - jumping in this thread telling us all how we fail to appreciate the "complexity" of it all...talk about crusading.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> And I'm having a straight conversation with you.
> 
> Here's the tip of the iceberg of what I'm talking about. Come back with a straight face and tell me that these threads weren't *started* with any intent other than thinly veiled platforms to bash cheaters, those who support them, or the spouses considered stupid enough to reconcile with one. Tell me that I'm misinterpreting here and that I'm actually off-base in my assessment. These aren't poignant questions posed by anyone wanting to understand the complexities of infidelity or how weak spouses go astray.
> 
> ...


Ok and all the posts and threads where we have the WS state that it's BS fault and that it's the bad marriage and that cheating doesn't hurt kids. All those you are going to come at me with a straight face and say they don't have agendas right? Or are you sticking your head in the sand on all those threads. See because I have been in those threads. Didn't see you there arguing the opposite. So is this just agenda driven then or??


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Well I'm glad you got that off your chest but you are the crusader - jumping in this thread telling us all how we fail to appreciate the "complexity" of it all...talk about crusading.


See this is what I don't understand either. Cletus you are doing the exact thing you accuse us of doing. If it makes you feel better to admonish what I say so be it. I am only here with the best of intentions try to learn and grow same as the day I discovered this place years ago. I also am trying to pass along what I have learned first hand going though this experience as a BS, that's important to me because the first step in recovery is to learn that you're not alone in it. Amazing to me this is the once place I have found where time and again the BS is somehow blamed for the actions of the WS... I mean it's dumbfounding really.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> See this is what I don't understand either. Cletus you are doing the exact thing you accuse us of doing. If it makes you feel better to admonish what I say so be it. I am only here with the best of intentions try to learn and grow same as the day I discovered this place years ago. I also am trying to pass along what I have learned first hand going though this experience as a BS, that's important to me because the first step in recovery is to learn that you're not alone in it. Amazing to me this is the once place I have found where time and again the BS is somehow blamed for the actions of the WS... I mean it's dumbfounding really.


My sympathies are with the BS is a vast,vast majority of cases, that is no secret, nor do I apologize for that perspective. I dont flame other member on here either BS or WS - if I dont like a thread or someones view I IGNORE it - its pretty simple.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

About 6 months after final d-day I stated to my WH that he had NEVER even said that he was sorry. His response was extremely angry & passionate, "Of course I'm f**king SORRY!". That warmed my broken heart!!!!!!

I do believe that many (not the serial cheats) adulterers do truly regret & feel genuine remorse for their actions. Could that be why many MM come d-day throw the OW under the bus & do anything to keep their marriage? I don't believe the general BS line that he doesn't want to loose his money, pension & 50% of his kids. I think often the utter devastation they witness when the BS crumples is a huge wake-up call that shatters the fantasy. 


On the subject of the current 'debate' going on in this thread....

I've been a member of Love Shack (the place where OW are allowed to 'roam free!') since my marriage, life, turned to complete & utter s**t. It's strange for me to read the anamosity between the 2 sites!! 

Have you guys read the OW/OM forum? Most there are trying to support ENDING affairs, NOT encouraging them. It's not as bad as portrayed.

LS has a lot more female members & is in some ways a 'gentler' place for WS & OW/OM to post. It's still pretty harsh!! (As it should be in my opinion but I'm a broken BS). This site/forums members appear to have contempt for LS. 

Others are very judgmental about TAM. The common criticism is that the member here are majority BS men who are VERY angry & bitter. Don't support reconciliation, particularly when the WS is the wife. Advise is 'Divorce the b**ch as fast as you can!', 'Stop being a weak beta man'. 
If the BS is a woman it's more 'What did you do to deserve this?', 'were you withholding sex?', 'how are you responsible for your WH affair?'.

To be honest, although I joined TAM a while ago, I'm reading more here to decide for myself. I haven't read enough to express my view.

Anyway, just saying, there are MANY on infidelity forums that believe TAM members do lack interest in the individual stories & motivations for infidelity. You believe that all cheats are scum, all cheats are just the same, reading from the same script & NEVER deserve a second chance. 

It's interesting that you're having this kind of debate in this thread. 

I like the articles being posted for general discussion. You don't get that much on other forums. I think it's a worthwhile, interesting exercise. Thank you.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> I like the articles being posted for general discussion. You don't get that much on other forums. I think it's a worthwhile, interesting exercise. Thank you.


They are posted for that very reason - to facilitate a discussion of infidelity in more general terms without necessarily discussing a particular members case. I think both types of threads are valuable.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BrokenLady said:


> About 6 months after final d-day I stated to my WH that he had NEVER even said that he was sorry. His response was extremely angry & passionate, "Of course I'm f**king SORRY!". That warmed my broken heart!!!!!!
> 
> I do believe that many (not the serial cheats) adulterers do truly regret & feel genuine remorse for their actions. Could that be why many MM come d-day throw the OW under the bus & do anything to keep their marriage? I don't believe the general BS line that he doesn't want to loose his money, pension & 50% of his kids. I think often the utter devastation they witness when the BS crumples is a huge wake-up call that shatters the fantasy.
> 
> ...


Well you will find that is argument isn't new here. There is plenty of blame to go around. I have seen WS absolutely obliterated and name called in forums and I have seen the exact same done to BS here, I know I was one who was ridiculed. And no it's not ok or right but tolerated one way here by some of the mods.

Once you get past that many here are actually trying to help. I have always been honest with my own personal stance that I don't believe anyone should reconcile after infidelity. I just believe that this is the ultimate form or abuse, emotional and psychological. I know I know I'm just the crusader armchair psychologist, or whatever I was called, but my experience in life has taught me my opinion on it. Now people do reconcile and that's ok, I don't try and talk them out of it or ridicule them for it which is more than I got but I have the right to express my opinion and do.

I have been here a long time and disagree with whoever made the assessment about TAM treats gender different when it comes to affairs. Sure you will get the occasional back and forth but for the most part people who post here daily have the same advice for men and women who are being cheated on and yes that advice is leave you deserve better.

I won't speak for all here but for myself I do agree I lack interest in motivation for cheating because I already know it's a choice made and selfish one. Now can a BS contribute to a bad marriage? Absolutely! But what many of the WS crowd assume is that all infidetly comes out of bad marriages, not true at all. Further just because you have a bad marriage doesn't mean you have license to cheat or you deserved to be cheated on. That is the same mentality that you did something to deserve to be raped or physically abused. That's the mentality I am against ANY justification for abuse period.

Hope you stick around :smile2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> So is this just agenda driven then or??


When I start making claims about everyone based solely on their inclusion in a group, then you may take me to task. 

Until then, people are individuals. No one here is qualified to speak for them as a group.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



BetrayedDad said:


> My WS told me and projected for the most part exactly what you said. On the surface, it's easy to believe.
> 
> And I don't think you are wrong, in fact I agree with you. I do think there's an extra layer. It's a little more than that.
> 
> ...


Yes, I was drowning myself in the fantasy, but it was ambivalence, not hatred, that allowed me to do so. There's a fine line between love and hate. They are not the opposite. Hatred means there is still a great deal of emotional baggage left unfinished. Indifference means there is nothing left to save.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Cletus said:


> When I start making claims about everyone based solely on their inclusion in a group, then you may take me to task.
> 
> Until then, people are individuals. No one here is qualified to speak for them as a group.


Seems to me you just called us WS crusaders. So yep taking you to task on that.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



EI said:


> Yes, I was drowning myself in the fantasy, but it was ambivalence, not hatred, that allowed me to do so. There's a fine line between love and hate. They are not the opposite. Hatred means there is still a great deal of emotional baggage left unfinished. Indifference means there is nothing left to save.


And extreme ambivalence can be far more cruel than hatred.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



BetrayedDad said:


> And extreme ambivalence can be far more cruel than hatred.


Of that, I'm well aware, as I was on the receiving end of B1's extreme ambivalence for the last several years before my A.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



EI said:


> Of that, I'm well aware, as I was on the receiving end of B1's extreme ambivalence for the last several years before my A.


Sorry I might be confusing you with someone else but didn't you reconcile with your husband? If he had ambivalence and didn't care about you then why did he care about the affair or want you to come back at all? That would seem strange to me as most of us, BS, care very deeply WS which is why it's so earth shattering when they cheat.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



BetrayedDad said:


> And extreme ambivalence can be far more cruel than hatred.


I read this a lot, but if you really hate someone you typically want to harm them, make them suffer, even wish them dead. I hardly consider that any less damaging or more caring than ambivalence, just saying....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Since 1/20/14 I have tried to name how I felt about my wife for the first six months. Ambivalent is exactly what I felt. I couldn't think of this word for so long and now reading this thread I have been enlightened. Those here that know my story and the remorse my wife feels, I tried to stay away from this thread. I stayed away because many may question my wife's remorse or that she isn't capable of remorse. So I will answer when remorse came to my wife. 

As I look back remorse came rather quickly for my wife, but the affair has ended two and a half years prior to my dday. I don't think she ever thought about how deeply I loved and cared for her. I was not perfect and I know I did not convey this to her. This isn't making an excuse for her but something I have learned in the therapy for myself. Self reflecting on myself was/is difficult for me, how do I find fault in myself and my actions after she cheated. Separation is key, you have to separate the marriage from the infidelity. What did I bring to the marriage that was toxic? What did my wife bring to the marriage that was toxic? Identifying these faults and owning them, fixing the faults you brought forward, fixing yourself and applying these repairs to the marriage. We both did things toxic to the marriage, her solution of an affair was the worst choice she ever made.

Within a month of dday I could see the remorse, it's different then anything you've ever witnessed. Six months after dday and she was very close to full remorse. She was feeling my pain, she tried desperately to help me. When she thought I was suicidal she stayed awake some nights to watch over me. She blamed herself for the marriage and her affair. In fact there wasn't anything that could have been my fault, she wouldn't hear of it. MC showed her my faults to the marriage, but my wife would say she deserved anything I did to her. 

Accepting blame for everything isn't remorse, but this is how she felt. I see her remorse every day, there isn't anything she wouldn't give or do to have a chance to change her choice. However, we are unable to change the past, we must focus on the future and our reconciliation. My days are getting better, our marriage is strengthening, but we are not fully reconciled or healed individually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Am with you on that DO...that's the point where I am at with my R....everything I needed for my W to do has been done and she is doing. ..am at a point now where I gotta close the chapter in this book of life and move on....am tired of reading and learning about affairs, am ready to move on, I have to....it's been 3 years, it's enough, i just can't let it keep having so much room in my mind, it's done n over. I feel the more I think about her A the more I empower it, and I don't want to do that anymore.

One thing thou on what you said, it's true you have to look and fix your flawed contributions to the marriage, but for me it sucked having to do that in the light of being cheated on....ugh...

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



EI said:


> Of that, I'm well aware, as I was on the receiving end of B1's extreme ambivalence for the last several years before my A.


EI, how did it turn around? And why did both of you want it to? 

Sounds like you were both done. That's obviously a difficult place for two people to both come back from.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

*Re: When Does The Remorse Begin After An Affair*



EI said:


> One day, like a light bulb going out, it was just gone. I didn't care, anymore. I was completely ambivalent. I told him that our marriage was over, and that I'd be divorcing him in approximately two years, as soon as our youngest had graduated from high school, and our special needs son had been placed in a staffed residence (he was already an adult and that had been in the works, at his request, for quite some time) and we could sell our house, which had a huge mortgage on it that was underwater. Due to financial reasons, and the needs of our children, we would have to remain, together, in the family home, until we could sell it and divorce. I also told him that I wasn't going to wait, if an opportunity for love came along, I was going to take it. Then, I asked him sit down with me, while I told our children the same. After that, it was never mentioned again. B1 went on, from that day forward, as if it were any other day.



You know it's ironic that they ripped on you so much over at CL when, to most of them, apparently, this doesn't even constitute cheating. This is almost word for word what the CL author did to her first husband {actually yours sounds better since you didn't have any plans with any specific OM when when you had the talk whereas she sounded more like she was saying "it's over ~ where's my luggage and lingerie ~ I'm off to London to meet my OM"}. Still can't believe the queen of betrayed anger's confessed adultery was denied and defended.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

BrokenLady said:


> If the BS is a woman it's more 'What did you do to deserve this?', 'were you withholding sex?', 'how are you responsible for your WH affair?'.
> 
> To be honest, although I joined TAM a while ago, I'm reading more here to decide for myself. I haven't read enough to express my view.


Although there are nuggets of truths to your other observations, I have yet to see anyone here blame the BS if she was a woman. The members here despise cheating in general but there are many cases where they support the BS for attempting reconciliation.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> Although there are nuggets of truths to your other observations, I have yet to see anyone here blame the BS if she was a woman. The members here despise cheating in general but there are many cases where they support the BS for attempting reconciliation.


Personally I see this all the time. In fact on a BW's thread I just read, a user suggests her cheating husband may have read some stories about other people's cheating spouses, got hurt feelings (?????) and therefore cheated. I always see people asking BWs about sex etc too

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Of course there are questions about sex when the BS indicates that this is a problem in the marriage. It would be the same if the BS were a man who couldn't hold a job or kept losing money, etc. Sex and financial security are among the top needs of most men and women, respectively (if you believe HNHN which I do), so not meeting a primary need is very relevant if a BS wants to understand the situation or determine if they want to R.

The problem is when a TAM member brings this very relevant issue up, a bunch of other TAM members start screaming "no sex ever for that loser!" And drown out the underlying point about understanding and meeting your spouses needs.

I've seen those threads too. And I've seen the BS sometimes reflect on the question and try to gain insight, only to be badgered again and again that they are never at fault and should never have sex unless x,y or z happenings.

Personally I'm not a BS so I think I'm pretty objective. I'm also very much a believer that people are individuals with personal reasons for what they do, even if the actions end up falling into similar patterns.

In other words, individual WS may have different things at play, but they often end up on the same highway in the same lanes going in the same direction (cheaters script). But I still think it's productive to understand what route got them on the highway if you want to get them to take an exit ramp anytime soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Am with you on that DO...that's the point where I am at with my R....everything I needed for my W to do has been done and she is doing. ..am at a point now where I gotta close the chapter in this book of life and move on....am tired of reading and learning about affairs, am ready to move on, I have to....it's been 3 years, it's enough, i just can't let it keep having so much room in my mind, it's done n over. I feel the more I think about her A the more I empower it, and I don't want to do that anymore.
> 
> One thing thou on what you said, it's true you have to look and fix your flawed contributions to the marriage, but for me it sucked having to do that in the light of being cheated on....ugh...
> 
> Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk





Perhaps you have touched on the single most reason rehabilitation fails, because infidelity is the catalyst. It is very important to separate the issues of the flaws you own, the flaws of the WS, and the flaws you both brought into the marriage. In reconciliation you are repairing your flaws, the WS repairs theirs, but you can't help but think, I become a better spouse, person, and the WS is rewarded with a healthier, stronger, improved communication in the marriage. At times I have felt the WS was rewarded, but if the WS is truly remorseful, there really is no reward. 

It took me a long time to begin to see that my wife isn't rewarded, instead I see the pain on her face each day. True remorse causes the WS pain, it causes them to self reflect to humiliating levels, and they work tirelessly to prove they can and will change to be a better person. What this brings, a WS who does everything right, and yet reconciliation still has a better then average chance to fail. Therefore a truly remorseful WS is far from being rewarded. I see fear in my wife's eyes when I am having a bad moment, she feels I have reached the point I can't go further, and living in fear of my actions is wrong. The WS will need affirmation that this is indeed a fleeting emotion that will move past. You need to support each other in reconciliation, and this proves to be very difficult, which is why separating infidelity from other issues is so very important. 

CantBelieveThis, your wife is trying hard, she is showing she wants to be a better person, and that is very good. Your wife is working to repair herself, her marriage, and being a human being. You yourself are repairing what you brought to the marriage, your issues, and changing to become a better human being. So I say to you, be the best you you can be, from there you may just surprise yourself on how much better you feel. It takes time and hard work, but I fully believe you will feel true happiness in what you become, and maybe even the burn from the catalyst will subside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

I believe this morning I may have experienced true remorse. 7.5 months post discovery that he was using massage parlor sex traded korean prostitutes for three years. Same three years I was working my tail off helping him tirelessly build his business. Go figure. Anyway, we had a discussion a few days ago about how I noticed from the beginning, 20 years ago, that he wouldn't hold my gaze or genuinely look into my eyes, as I had experienced with other relationships. I guess he thought about that a few days and it opened him up He said he noticed immediately when we met how I held his gaze and how alive and bright my eyes were, and how he was so very sorry he did not give that back to me and bring that to our lives together. He broke down and cried about how he had not given back what was given to him, and how sorry he was about all of it. Now, here's the problem-- all you unfaithfuls out there. A guy doesn't want to loose a partner like me. I fully loved and pulled with and for this man, and our shared life was the stuff of dreams in so many ways. I watched the remorse and it looked sincere, but who knows now? I no longer trust anything including my ability to detect honesty. And, the damage, the HUGE damage to respect, to trust, to the building of a life together - its done. You cannot call it back. The relationship will never be the same and I will never be the same trusting, giving, open person I was for all those years. Its a loss I truly grieve. The question is, am I better off staying with and trying to rebuild, or leaving and starting over? I get to concern myself with what serves ME now, as US sure has been a lonely and disappointing experience.

Your collective thoughts on how to figure this out are welcome. I know throwing off this load is truly tempting, and my future looks brighter without all this filth, lies and cheating, disrespect for women, poor coping and disgusting character choices. Is that just now, or is that forever? My betraying partner tells me he cannot change the past but he can change the future. What are your thoughts?


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

> Your collective thoughts on how to figure this out are welcome. I know throwing off this load is truly tempting, and my future looks brighter without all this filth, lies and cheating, disrespect for women, poor coping and disgusting character choices. Is that just now, or is that forever? My betraying partner tells me he cannot change the past but he can change the future. What are your thoughts?


If it were me? I'd walk away and never look back.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

DoneIn said:


> I believe this morning I may have experienced true remorse. 7.5 months post discovery that he was using massage parlor sex traded korean prostitutes for three years. Same three years I was working my tail off helping him tirelessly build his business. Go figure. Anyway, we had a discussion a few days ago about how I noticed from the beginning, 20 years ago, that he wouldn't hold my gaze or genuinely look into my eyes, as I had experienced with other relationships. I guess he thought about that a few days and it opened him up He said he noticed immediately when we met how I held his gaze and how alive and bright my eyes were, and how he was so very sorry he did not give that back to me and bring that to our lives together. He broke down and cried about how he had not given back what was given to him, and how sorry he was about all of it. Now, here's the problem-- all you unfaithfuls out there. A guy doesn't want to loose a partner like me. I fully loved and pulled with and for this man, and our shared life was the stuff of dreams in so many ways. I watched the remorse and it looked sincere, but who knows now? I no longer trust anything including my ability to detect honesty. And, the damage, the HUGE damage to respect, to trust, to the building of a life together - its done. You cannot call it back. The relationship will never be the same and I will never be the same trusting, giving, open person I was for all those years. Its a loss I truly grieve. The question is, am I better off staying with and trying to rebuild, or leaving and starting over? I get to concern myself with what serves ME now, as US sure has been a lonely and disappointing experience.
> 
> Your collective thoughts on how to figure this out are welcome. I know throwing off this load is truly tempting, and my future looks brighter without all this filth, lies and cheating, disrespect for women, poor coping and disgusting character choices. Is that just now, or is that forever? My betraying partner tells me he cannot change the past but he can change the future. What are your thoughts?


What would you regret more?

Staying and always wondering how you would have fared if you'd walked away?
Leaving to find out that his newfound regret improves him for his next relationship?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> CantBelieveThis said:
> 
> 
> > My wife acted like this, the only response to this behavior is yo immediately file for D and that usually awakens them up
> ...


Preach, truthseeker1. That's been my husband's MO from day 1. When I told him a few weeks ago that he has never asked me what he could go to make it up to me or how he could change to be a better husband, his answer was, "that's a given." Now that we are finally separating, he says he'll do anything to make me happy. Yeah, right.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> Preach, truthseeker1. That's been my husband's MO from day 1. When I told him a few weeks ago that he has never asked me what he could go to make it up to me or how he could change to be a better husband, his answer was, "that's a given." Now that we are finally separating, he says he'll do anything to make me happy. Yeah, right.


I believe in WS self-preservation more than WS true remorse. Consider me a skeptic....


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Remorse is a process

and for me it took a VERY long time before i understood it

Remorse is the ability to remove yourself from your own pain and placing yourself inside of the pain you have caused and UNDERSTANDING it

In other words...becoming completely and totally selfless...

I will never forget the day I understood completely and totally the devastation I had caused. It was so much more than being sorry or regretful. It was truly understanding the pain...placing myself inside of that pain and willing to do whatever it took to heal the pain i had caused. 

I had for many years been sorry...but being sorry is so very different than understanding and feeling within yourself the devastating pain you caused.

The day I truly understood this..i fell to my knees and wept like i had never wept before...I saw the pain with new eyes...and i wanted so badly to heal him...to assure him that he would never ever feel that kind of pain again..and yet knowing that it would take the rest of my life to help him feel my sincerity.

Each day.. I do my best...to place him first...to ask him if he is ok...to tell him I will do whatever i need to do to help him feel safe.

Each day..I know i fail..but he will never be able to say..that i do not try.

For those who have never cheated...you won't understand anything i have just said. For those who have cheated and do not yet truly understand remorse...you too will not understand.

But for those who have become acquainted with remorse...you have my admiration and support...because this...is the hardest work we will ever have to do...and our spouses that we have betrayed..are worth every single moment


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

@Mrs John Adams, it is rare for a WS to be able to reach a place where they can truly understand the pain they've caused. Then, by the time that process of remorse is complete, it is often too late for the BS to even care. 
How long did it take you?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

many many years...i am very sorry to say
However...My affair was way before internet and forums
so I hold great hope for affairs that happen today

there are so many more avenues available today as opposed to the 1980's

and I pray people take advantage of places like TAM and loveshack and surviving infidelity to find their way to healing


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> many many years...i am very sorry to say
> However...My affair was way before internet and forums
> so I hold great hope for affairs that happen today
> 
> ...


Sadly I think most of them don't have it in them to get it. Actually the BS staying gives them the opportunity. If your husband had left you do you think you would have had the motivation to even try to get it? To me the BS suffers most of the damage (the WS is already damaged), and then just their presence give the opportunity that the very rare WS can actually get help, grow and heal. It really is an ultimate sacrifice, because I will never believe that the BS doesn't suffer at some level for the rest of their life. Just the understanding of the loss is profound. To live with the doubt to know for instance that you had to share your wife with another man. Or that your husband desired another women enough to abandon you. 

Still I don't think many if any WS would heal without their BS presence in their life forcing them to deal with what they have done. And we all know the WS usual instinct is to run away from their issues. In fact I think most would just move on to more failed relationships. So it's more then just saving the marriage, it's saving the person. I wonder if most remorseful WS get this fact?

Why do you think your husband stayed? What do you think would have happened to you if he didn't?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I agree with you

If my husband had divorced me....I doubt i would have ever understood how much damage i caused him. But i lived with that damage...I had to face it every day....I still have to face it. He will NEVER "get over it"....the damage I caused is permanent. Can he move forward...yes...but the scars are there. I see them...and i have no one to blame but myself.

I believe my husband stayed...because he never stopped loving me....and to be honest...if he had divorced me like i deserved...i think my life would have spiraled downward....

He saved me...no doubt about it. He was the strong one...the one who never gave up on me. I have told him many times that he has saved my life. 

my husband loved me more than he hated what i did....this says it all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> my husband loved me more than he hated what i did....this says it all.


I like this. Where I have a problem is where people seem to love the marriage more then themselves or being treated with dignity.

Yours was a ONS right? 

Also you are your husbands one and only up until that point correct? 

So assuming I am correct with that. I was reading a poster on another site where the same thing has happened. This is particularly painful to read and it caused me to really think deeply about it. The gist of her post was how much damage it did to him and how he was now insecure and how he could never get it back. But she showed no awareness of what she had lost. Now maybe that is why she so easily gave it away. I suspect one day she may get this though. I wonder what your thoughts are of this?

After some reflection I think the loss for her is even greater then his, and his is staggering. I think of what this part of herself and what it once meant to him which she can never get back, in fact this is what he is morning not that she had sex. I mean lets face it, he can always have sex with someone else and in today's day and age it's easy, but until she was with the other man what she had given him was priceless and no other women could compete with that at least at his age. She doesn't seem to get that that was like a ace in their relationship. Now she is no longer that. She goes in the pool of all the other women. How sad that she gave it away. And what for, a 3 month fling. a 3 month fling 20 years from now will seem like an nanosecond to her I'm sure. But losing something about yourself that was so treasured by your husband for a nanosecond is probably felt for a lifetime. 

Then again I think of the whole affair like this, really. The WS ends up losing more as I think the BS love changes, it has to, a lot of times you will read the WS write how they know their BS still loves them but they also know the original love they once had is lost. I suspect it's because it's too painful to love the BS that way anymore. So to ease the pain they have to tamp down the love. 

I wonder what your thoughts are about that as you are years out? Is this distinctly a male feeling? What I mean by that is many BW's seem distinctly shocked at how much their husbands valued their wives sexual fidelity. Which is always quite shocking to me because duh. But maybe we don't work the same way. Now their are reasons for this in a purely instinctual way. As men always have the danger of raising someone else's child so fidelity is paramount. But I think there is more to it, I think it's the thing in us that also makes us stare down the barrel of the gun for our wives. I think God put it in us for our wives, like mothers have for their children. 

Anyway I wonder your thoughts on this. Assuming you husband never had an affair though he may have I don't remember, or even if he did.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I am not quite sure i understand your comment. Making blanket judgements... about others situations is difficult. None of know the ins and outs and dynamics of other relationships...and what may be acceptable to me...may not be acceptable to you. For example...you might say that my husband sacrificed his dignity by allowing me to stay...but in actuality...the only person who could answer that would be him. 

I had a very short affair that ended in a one time sexual encounter. I have learned that terminology can be misunderstood and can trigger others. I have always referred to it as an affair...not a ons or LTA...it was an affair. My husband was not a virgin when he married me...but I was.

The one thing I took away was the innocence of our relationship...and that is something i can never give back. I realize how great that loss is...I realize how terrible that hurt him. I cannot speak for anyone else...only me. I am fully aware what i lost...what i stole...and what i was given.

I married my husband when i was 17...he was the only boy i ever dated. We had a story book relationship....and i took that beautiful story and the specialness and threw it away.

It is now 35 years later...we have written many chapters in our story since my affair...In many ways we are closer than we have ever been...we are more in love than we have ever been...

But we would give anything if that chapter 35 years ago had never happened.

My husband had an RA two years after my affair...there was no sex. All affairs are a choice...I made mine and he made his....however...I know in my heart that had i NOT had my affair...he would not have had his. SO we are both responsible for our own choices....but i know how badly i hurt him.


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