# house is in a trust for kids, advice?



## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

My wife's mom bought a house for us and put it in a trust for our two kids. If I can't save my marriage, any guess as to my legal options? My wife's mom is the trustee, so can she evict me?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You have no legal ownership rights to the house. The trustee holds all the cards. Even if a landlord tenant judge won't evict you, your wife will be able to file a motion in family court to get you out of the house.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

So what really happened is that she bought the house in HER name until your kids are of age to own it completely bypassing both of you.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So what really happened is that she bought the house in HER name until your kids are of age to own it completely bypassing both of you.


I'm not sure what you're saying. Her mom bought the house and the house is in the trust's name?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

jppaul5280 said:


> I'm not sure what you're saying. Her mom bought the house and the house is in the trust's name?


If its bought and paid for and you didn't have to pay any mortgage, not much you can do. 

However, if you ever did anything like take out a home equity loan for improvements, things like that, then you do have an investment in the home that was paid for with marital money. 1/2 of that would be yours.

Not knowing all the details, hard to figure what to tell you. Honestly you should try to look into splitting the marital assets, of which you own 1/2, and try to split amicably. If she wants to screw you out of what you are entitled, then you will HAVE to get an attorney. Take out a loan. And yes, not being with the kids sucks. Believe me, I know. But as I asked in another thread, are you a SAHD and their primary caregiver? Does she have a career that outweighs yours? If so, you may be able to gain custody especially since it seems your kids are the most important thing to you.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> If its bought and paid for and you didn't have to pay any mortgage, not much you can do.
> 
> However, if you ever did anything like take out a home equity loan for improvements, things like that, then you do have an investment in the home that was paid for with marital money. 1/2 of that would be yours.
> 
> Not knowing all the details, hard to figure what to tell you. Honestly you should try to look into splitting the marital assets, of which you own 1/2, and try to split amicably. If she wants to screw you out of what you are entitled, then you will HAVE to get an attorney. Take out a loan. And yes, not being with the kids sucks. Believe me, I know. But as I asked in another thread, are you a SAHD and their primary caregiver? Does she have a career that outweighs yours? If so, you may be able to gain custody especially since it seems your kids are the most important thing to you.


thanks.

Her job currently outweighs mine, but she was a part-time worker for years.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jppaul5280 said:


> My wife's mom bought a house for us and put it in a trust for our two kids. If I can't save my marriage, any guess as to my legal options? My wife's mom is the trustee, so can she evict me?


I'm not a lawyer, and I suggest you ask one because unless someone on this forum happens to be a lawyer (very possible) then you're getting internet advice. But sounds to me like you lived in your MIL's house, which makes it her house, so yeah, she can evict you. Have you been paying rent to her? Do you have a contract of any kind regarding the house?


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not a lawyer, and I suggest you ask one because unless someone on this forum happens to be a lawyer (very possible) then you're getting internet advice. But sounds to me like you lived in your MIL's house, which makes it her house, so yeah, she can evict you. Have you been paying rent to her? Do you have a contract of any kind regarding the house?


no contract or rent


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jppaul5280 said:


> no contract or rent


So you've been living for free and your question is, do I have equity in the house? The answer is no, you do not. That is the danger of arrangements like the one you have. You get to live rent free but you can be kicked out on a moment's notice for any reason at all. Sorry, you don't have any legal rights to that house. If you do fix your marriage, I would suggest you remedy that situation.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you've been living for free and your question is, do I have equity in the house? The answer is no, you do not. That is the danger of arrangements like the one you have. You get to live rent free but you can be kicked out on a moment's notice for any reason at all. Sorry, you don't have any legal rights to that house. If you do fix your marriage, I would suggest you remedy that situation.


i hear you, but I was never interested in her mom's money. I was a little against her mom buying the house, but kept my mouth shut because it was the right and nice thing to do.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Do you pay any utilities? Depending on the state if you pay utilities an eviction would be required. Though it's a moot point if your wife files a motion to remove you from the house pending your divorce. Did you care for the property at all? Maintain it? Can you prove this?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jppaul5280 said:


> no contract or rent


I just don't know why you think you have any claim on the house. It's not at all your house. Even paying rent wouldn't give you any claim on the house. 

You need to move out.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It might depend on which state you live in but I think it’s unlikely you have a legal interest. Sounds like what her mom did would prevent that from happening. And that could have been the point.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You probably have rights as a tenant, but laws are different in the various states. You should ask a lawyer in your state who handles landlord and tenant law.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Depending on the concise stipulations of the trust, no even your wife may have any legal claims towards the house, least of all YOU.

You may have legal rights towards staying for a period of time as the house is your legal place of residence. Fact is eventually, you'll be kick out, legally. Nothing you can do there. 

If I were you, I would consult with a lawyer to keep there as long as possible per your state laws, getting ready in the meantime for when the inevitable comes knocking.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

jppaul5280 said:


> My wife's mom bought a house for us and put it in a trust for our two kids. If I can't save my marriage, any guess as to my legal options? My wife's mom is the trustee, so can she evict me?


It was a huge mistake to let your wife’s mother have this much control over your finances and lives.

You’re supposed to be the one leading your family. You’re supposed to be the one providing (or at least co-providing along with your wife) for your family.

Why would you allow your wife’s mother to buy your wife/kids a house that you have no interest in or control over? 
You have allowed yourself to become superfluous in your family. What’s your value here?


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

You don’t have to move out tomorrow because she tells you to. And I wouldn’t. You are married with children. Nobody should mess with that in this way and I would make them go through the process. I think I asked on the other post, but how do the in laws feel about you? How is your relationship with them? Are they on board with your wife? You can be evicted, of course, but how quickly that happens varies from judge to judge. This was a colossal mistake in judgement on your part. It was not the right or nice thing to do, it was the easy thing. Ugh. What a mess. This is why adults should be fiscally independent of parents, except in cases of emergency. Sorry you’re in this mess.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You were played. One of the reasons your MIL did this was to make sure you get nothing.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

Benbutton said:


> Do you pay any utilities? Depending on the state if you pay utilities an eviction would be required. Though it's a moot point if your wife files a motion to remove you from the house pending your divorce. Did you care for the property at all? Maintain it? Can you prove this?


I paid, but the bills weren't in my name. I paid for stuff generically by putting my pay checks in the bank and then we paid for stuff


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just don't know why you think you have any claim on the house. It's not at all your house. Even paying rent wouldn't give you any claim on the house.
> 
> You need to move out.


it's not that I want any money from the house, I just don't want to move out, not yet anyways. My kids and I have a routine at night where we share the couch and watch a silly TV show before bed.* It's killing me thinking I'm not going to be a full-time father.

I also am very afraid because I've read stuff on here that moving out too soon affects parental rights.* I screwed up with my wife. I love her and want to save the marriage, but my kids have always been my everything (to the detriment of my marriage). Not being with my kids for days in a row makes me hollow and want to vomit.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Do not leave your children or your home!
Be mindful of DV accusations and charges to get you out.
Get legal advice! You found TAM, now look for advice in your state. 
Dads Divorce forum


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jppaul5280 said:


> it's not that I want any money from the house, I just don't want to move out, not yet anyways. My kids and I have a routine at night where we share the couch and watch a silly TV show before bed.* It's killing me thinking I'm not going to be a full-time father.
> 
> I also am very afraid because I've read stuff on here that moving out too soon affects parental rights.* I screwed up with my wife. I love her and want to save the marriage, but my kids have always been my everything (to the detriment of my marriage). Not being with my kids for days in a row makes me hollow and want to vomit.


Your wife is done with you and you need to face it. She is good and done with you. What you should be concentrating on right now is seeing if you can get joint custody but for that you're going to need your own place that will accommodate your children, so I suggest you go out and get two jobs right now and start working on that.

I didn't say anything about money for the house. It's not your house and they want you out. If you got an attorney you might be able to get a small certain amount of time before you get out, but you are going to have to get out. You can go dignified or you can go kicking and screaming. Which do you think would be best for your kids?


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

anchorwatch said:


> Do not leave your children or your home!
> Be mindful of DV accusations and charges to get you out.
> Get legal advice! You found TAM, now look for advice in your state.
> Dads Divorce forum


thanks.

My wife wouldn't accuse me of DV. She's not happy with me as a husband or a man, but she says I'm a great father. Even if she was mad at me, she wouldn't do that to our kids.

thanks for the link, going to look


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

This is why you need to consult an attorney about how your address will effect your parental rights. 

The fact remains your marriage is probably over but you will always be a full time father. You will simply live somewhere else. Your address does not impact how much you love your kids.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jppaul5280 said:


> it's not that I want any money from the house, I just don't want to move out, not yet anyways. My kids and I have a routine at night where we share the couch and watch a silly TV show before bed.* It's killing me thinking I'm not going to be a full-time father.
> 
> I also am very afraid because I've read stuff on here that moving out too soon affects parental rights.* I screwed up with my wife. I love her and want to save the marriage, but my kids have always been my everything (to the detriment of my marriage). Not being with my kids for days in a row makes me hollow and want to vomit.


You also need to get a grip on your mental health if you feel hollow and want to vomit. You need to get your crap together if you want joint custody of these kids. Two jobs and get a grip on your emotions so you don't do something stupid that will make you lose custody of the kids. And the first thing is you need to accept that she is done with you and that that is not your house. For the kids sake please don't be one of these guys who has to be drug out of there by law enforcement.

You need to accept that you are about to be single and get yourself financially set up.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

jppaul5280 said:


> My wife's mom bought a house for us and put it in a trust for our two kids. If I can't save my marriage, any guess as to my legal options? My wife's mom is the trustee, so can she evict me?


Generally you should have signed a document allowing your family to live in the house. I can't remember the name of it right now but we did this with my moms house. It is in a trust with my brothers and sisters names on it and me and one sister as trustees. But the trustees signed a legal document giving my mom the right to live there as long as she wants. This is usually done with irrevocable trusts and done to avoid losing the home to medicaid some day.

Your Mother in law was very wise in what she did it was a great way to protect her assets.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

jppaul5280 said:


> thanks.
> 
> My wife wouldn't accuse me of DV. She's not happy with me as a husband or a man, but she says I'm a great father. Even if she was mad at me, she wouldn't do that to our kids.
> 
> thanks for the link, going to look


There are many men that thought the same thing as you. "Aw that would never happen to me" and then bam - cuffed on false DV charges and screwed over regarding custody and divorce settlement. Your wife has asked you to move out and you don't want to. You already have a conflict, and honestly you really don't know what your wife or MIL are capable of until the heat ramps up. False DV charges are a very easy way to get you out of the house. Get a VAR and keep it on you and running at all times - it is dirt cheap insurance.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Tex X said:


> There are many men that thought the same thing as you. "Aw that would never happen to me" and then bam - cuffed on false DV charges and screwed over regarding custody and divorce settlement. Your wife has asked you to move out and you don't want to. You already have a conflict, and honestly you really don't know what your wife or MIL are capable of until the heat ramps up. False DV charges are a very easy way to get you out of the house. Get a VAR and keep it on you and running at all times - it is dirt cheap insurance.


Well, we don't know what HE is capable of. He's already refusing to move out and hasn't accepted she's done with him. That usually leads to trouble. I wouldn't automatically think it was "false DV charges" considering his behavior already.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, we don't know what HE is capable of. He's already refusing to move out and hasn't accepted she's done with him. That usually leads to trouble. I wouldn't automatically think it was "false DV charges" considering his behavior already.


that's unfair.


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

Tex X said:


> There are many men that thought the same thing as you. "Aw that would never happen to me" and then bam - cuffed on false DV charges and screwed over regarding custody and divorce settlement. Your wife has asked you to move out and you don't want to. You already have a conflict, and honestly you really don't know what your wife or MIL are capable of until the heat ramps up. False DV charges are a very easy way to get you out of the house. Get a VAR and keep it on you and running at all times - it is dirt cheap insurance.


thanks. What's a VAR?


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

jppaul5280 said:


> thanks. What's a VAR?


Voice activated recorder


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, we don't know what HE is capable of. He's already refusing to move out and hasn't accepted she's done with him. That usually leads to trouble. I wouldn't automatically think it was "false DV charges" considering his behavior already.


I'm going on the assumption that he is the one that is here asking for help, and most cases it is the man that gets hit with DV charges whether they be valid or false. He seemed a bit naive with the "oh she would never do that", so I recommended the VAR. You do have a valid point - maybe they should both carry a VAR.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Tex X said:


> I'm going on the assumption that he is the one that is here asking for help, and most cases it is the man that gets hit with DV charges whether they be valid or false. He seemed a bit naive with the "oh she would never do that", so I recommended the VAR. You do have a valid point - maybe they should both carry a VAR.


We just don't know either of them. And really, you don't know what a person is capable of until they are in an extreme situation, either. They both need to at least be keeping receipts, logs, etc. They both need to be digging out their financials, tax returns for the last few years. 

No mention of her having filed. No way to know what state, if they have to separate for so many months first or not, but even that is a procedure. No mention if Mom has filed something to get him out or not. But once she has stated her intent, the clock is ticking whether he complies or not. Just dragging it out.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

OP you should start thinking about the future and be strategic about this. You may not have the best situation, but you aren't in terrible shape either. You have no house to lose, neither one of you pays a mortgage, if she earns more than you and you end up with 50/50 custody you may be entitled to child support. Are you the primary caregiver?


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## jppaul5280 (5 mo ago)

Benbutton said:


> OP you should start thinking about the future and be strategic about this. You may not have the best situation, but you aren't in terrible shape either. You have no house to lose, neither one of you pays a mortgage, if she earns more than you and you end up with 50/50 custody you may be entitled to child support. Are you the primary caregiver?


thanks, I know I'm not in a horrible position. I drive by dozens of homeless people on the way to work every day. Tents are set up along open space. 

sorry, I'm ignorant and am unsure what "primary caregiver" means. I'm guessing that I'm not. She does more chores (specifically cooking) than I do. I just spend more time with our kids. Could be watching tv, going to the park, going on a hike, taking a drive, playing games, doing homework, wrestling/horseplay... my 14yo is almost bigger than me now, so I expect he'll start kicking my butt.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Once you get married and have kids you lose the luxury of being able to have panic attacks and not do what you need to do. Which in this case is leave. 

Trying to stay in or get money out of a house your wife's parents own is an awful example to set for your kids. Just awful. Time to do what you have to do and go.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

SMH...

Where did the OP say they wanted money out of the house? I read the house is in a trust for his children, meaning no one else (OP, W, or MIL) is entitled to that asset.

In what state can any spouse just throw the other spouse out of their marital/family dwelling without mutual or legal agreement? I've read he is more the caregiver than her and they are not continuous.

I agree he needs to address his faults and future and the end of the marriage. 

How many family lawyers are registered here on TAM?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


jppaul5280 said:



Her job currently outweighs mine, but she was a part-time worker for years.

Click to expand...

*That would likely be because *she *carried and birthed your two children then proceeded to raise them for the next 7-10 years. You always bring up "she only worked part time for years" like she was a slacker or something. 

Own your **** - YOU work part time now by CHOICE so just own it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jppaul5280 said:


> it's not that I want any money from the house, I just don't want to move out, not yet anyways. My kids and I have a routine at night where we share the couch and watch a silly TV show before bed.* It's killing me thinking I'm not going to be a full-time father.
> 
> I also am very afraid because I've read stuff on here that moving out too soon affects parental rights.* I screwed up with my wife. I love her and want to save the marriage, but my kids have always been my everything (to the detriment of my marriage). Not being with my kids for days in a row makes me hollow and want to vomit.


See a lawyer. A good lawyer can ask the court to not allow you to be evicted until the divorce is final.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, we don't know what HE is capable of. He's already refusing to move out and hasn't accepted she's done with him. That usually leads to trouble. I wouldn't automatically think it was "false DV charges" considering his behavior already.


The thing about her demanding that he moves out is taht she had no legal right to kick him out of the marital home. He should not move out until he's seen a lawyer and set up an agreement that addresses issue such as child custody, funds from the marital assets to help him get a place for him to live in where he also has room for his children to stay with him 50% of the time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jppaul5280 said:


> thanks. What's a VAR?


Voice activated recorder. It can be a good idea to have one on you when you and your wife are both at home. That way if she falsely accuses you have DV, you will have proof that she's lying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@jppaul5280

You are working part-time? How long have you been working parttime?

It's time for you to go get a full-time job. That way you can get a place of your own with room for your children to stay with you 50% of the time. Work more hours when your kids are with their mother, so you have more time to spend with them when they are with you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> The thing about her demanding that he moves out is taht she had no legal right to kick him out of the marital home. He should not move out until he's seen a lawyer and set up an agreement that addresses issue such as child custody, funds from the marital assets to help him get a place for him to live in where he also has room for his children to stay with him 50% of the time.


Some places you can't even file until you've been separated, though. And he isn't paying rent and doesn't have any claim to that house. She wants him out and her mom wants him out and it's her property, so she could kick them both out if she wanted to no questions asked, and where would marital home figure in then? It's Mom's home, and I bet that trumps marital home in this case. He should cooperate to keep from running up legal bills he'll have to pay part of in the future, if nothing else. Or from owing her mom rent she can start charging him anytime she wants, if she hasn't already. He has no real footing here, IMO. So Mom should just kick them both out if it comes to that and then invite her back in once he's evicted. Not a thing he can do about that. And no one can force his wife to go with him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> See a lawyer. A good lawyer can ask the court to not allow you to be evicted until the divorce is final.


I have never heard of a landlord being told they can't evict someone due to a pending divorce. 

Here is one lawyer page blurb in Texas:
"The court may grant your request to remove your spouse from the house and order your spouse to leave.
Note that you do not need to own the home to get a kick-out order. *Renters absolutely have rights to seek the Court’s order to remove your spouse. "*


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Here is something from an attorney question online:

*Can we evict our son in law from A house we own and he has lived there rent? They are getting a divorce..*
Daughter is getting divorce and we need to evict her husband from a house we own. He is verbally and mentally abusive that is the reason for the divorce. He says he does not have to leave.
Landlord or tenant
Ask a lawyer - it's free!
Browse related questions

*1 attorney answer*

Posted on Jun 11, 2021
Yes, if there is no lease, you'd need to give a 30 days notice to vacate, and then if he doesn't leave, then you can file for eviction.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

He's been notified. The clock is already ticking.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Some places you can't even file until you've been separated, though.


Most states do not require a separation before filing for divorce. And of those states that do, most do not require a separation if there is mutual consent.

Divorce Source: Separation or Waiting Periods for No Fault Divorce



DownByTheRiver said:


> And he isn't paying rent and doesn't have any claim to that house. She wants him out and her mom wants him out and it's her property, so she could kick them both out if she wanted to no questions asked, and where would marital home figure in then?


His wife cannot kick him out until the judge in their divorce case orders that he move out of the marital residence. His wife has no legal authority to kick him out of what is as much his home as it is her home.

Her mother can only evict him if she follows the landlord laws, files an eviction notice with the courts and then gets a court order to kick him out.

Shoot, I had a nephew living with me for 1 week. He got some mail at my home. He turned out to be a big problem, so I told him to leave. He refused. I called the police. They told me that since he received mail at the address, I had to go to court to evict him. It's like that in most, if not all jurisdictions in this country.



DownByTheRiver said:


> It's Mom's home, and I bet that trumps marital home in this case.


Yes, the mother, or rather the trust owns the home. While it seems that there is no written agreement between the parties, there is history and that history matters. The mother has allowed the couple to live in that home, rent free for years. She has to follow the law to if she wants to evict him.

By law she can give him an eviction notice with some number of days (per the state law) for him to leave. Here's an example of the rules that a landlord has to follow.
The Eviction Process in Colorado: Rules for Landlords and Property Managers | Nolo 

Also keep in mind that if the wife and mother evict him, it could turn the children against both the wife and mother. As a family, they need to take that into consideration as well.



DownByTheRiver said:


> He should cooperate to keep from running up legal bills he'll have to pay part of in the future, if nothing else.


I disagree. If he moves out before getting child custody settled, his wife could accuse him of abandonment as soon as he moves out. He could lose all legal rights to his children if that happens. He and his wife could avoid high legal costs if the TWO of them cooperate and draw up a fair child custody/visitation agreement and then follow it. This is not just on him. His wife also has responsibility in this. She does not have the right to kick him out of the marital home or to take his children away from him.



DownByTheRiver said:


> Or from owing her mom rent she can start charging him anytime she wants, if she hasn't already. He has no real footing here, IMO. So Mom should just kick them both out if it comes to that and then invite her back in once he's evicted. Not a thing he can do about that. And no one can force his wife to go with him.


No one is suggesting that his wife go with him. But her mother can't just kick him out without going to court if he does not willingly move out.

It could take months to evict them. If he stands his ground the mother would have to file an eviction motion in court and that can take months to address.

He does have footing. He's a tenant on the property and tenants have legal rights.

He needs to move now to get a fulltime job, get a custody agreement, and move out. But that custody agreement is essential.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Here is something from an attorney question online:
> 
> *Can we evict our son in law from A house we own and he has lived there rent? They are getting a divorce..*
> Daughter is getting divorce and we need to evict her husband from a house we own. He is verbally and mentally abusive that is the reason for the divorce. He says he does not have to leave.
> ...


This is why he needs to talk to an attorney. I've been involved in cases with my own rental property where there is no lease, only verbal agreement, and there was still a need to follow the landlord laws to evict a problem renter/tenant. We don't know the laws where he lives, and we can't give legal advice. We can suggest things and give him things to think about. But, he needs to talk to an attorney.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's been notified. The clock is already ticking.


Did he get written notice from his MIL?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Most states do not require a separation before filing for divorce. And of those states that do, most do not require a separation if there is mutual consent.
> 
> Divorce Source: Separation or Waiting Periods for No Fault Divorce
> 
> ...


Right. The mother needs to evict him legally, but sounds like he already has notice he needs to move. That can be verbal. She needs to evict him legally, absolutely. And if his wife is planning to divorce him, she needs to get that papered up as well. 

If he stands his ground, it will only cost him more money in the end. Since they have no assets, it will be money that might have to come out of future paychecks or his welfare check if he goes that route.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Right. The mother needs to evict him legally, but sounds like he already has notice he needs to move. That can be verbal. She needs to evict him legally, absolutely. And if his wife is planning to divorce him, she needs to get that papered up as well.
> 
> If he stands his ground, it will only cost him more money in the end. Since they have no assets, it will be money that might have to come out of future paychecks or his welfare check if he goes that route.


I don't think a verbal eviction notice counts. There is no way to prove that the mother gave him an eviction notice. HIs wife has zero authority to give him an eviction notice written or verbal. His wife has zero authority to kick him out of his own home, which is the martial home.

This is all good discussion. But the bottom line is that he needs to see an attorney that knows the local laws and local courts. That's the point here.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Did he get written notice from his MIL?


What I read, the 30 days notice can be verbal or written, but again, I'm sure it depends by state, but you know, rental stuff is pretty standard in general -- but he's not been paying rent, so it's basically her house and he's not really an official renter. He is a guest. It's the eviction that has to be written and legal. 

I know one time I was given a verbal at a rental unit. He gave me verbal notice that my roommate needed to go. He said otherwise he'd file an eviction. That's how it works here anyway. No need to go to court as long as the tenant cooperates. If the eviction is successful even though the tenant was uncooperative, he will pay court and attorney costs necessary to evict him. So that's why I saw the clock is ticking and cooperation is your cheapest route by far. Anything else is just mounting up debt you will be responsible for down the road.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think a verbal eviction notice counts. There is no way to prove that the mother gave him an eviction notice. HIs wife has zero authority to give him an eviction notice written or verbal. His wife has zero authority to kick him out of his own home, which is the martial home.
> 
> This is all good discussion. But the bottom line is that he needs to see an attorney that knows the local laws and local courts. That's the point here.


It's not a verbal eviction notice. It's 30 days notice before eviction if filed and it can be verbal at least in some places because I just read it. This isn't a home he ever owned, so the rules of home ownership don't apply. It's the mom's home in trust. So dealing with tenant rules where no one has any contract and has paid nothing, so that narrow it to "guest" or "squatter." Tenants are given the opportunity to move out after verbal notice because that gives them 30 days to do it without a fight before legal action that they will end up paying for if they lose, which they will.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If OP wants more specific help, he could tell us what state he's in or if he's in another country altogether.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> but he's not been paying rent, so it's basically her house and he's not really an official renter.


If he lives there and pays any sort of bills towards the house (a simple utility bill in his name, or proof of payment), an eviction process is required in most northeastern states. Some states require even less to trigger tenant rights.

One thing to consider as well - when an attorney says "the court MAY do this, that, or the other thing" - it means just that... MAY is far from definitive.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> If he lives there and pays any sort of bills towards the house (a simple utility bill in his name, or proof of payment), an eviction process is required in most northeastern states. Some states require even less to trigger tenant rights.
> 
> One thing to consider as well - when an attorney says "the court MAY do this, that, or the other thing" - it means just that... MAY is far from definitive.


He's not been paying or working. She has. But yes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What I read, the 30 days notice can be verbal or written, but again, I'm sure it depends by state, but you know, rental stuff is pretty standard in general -- but he's not been paying rent, so it's basically her house and he's not really an official renter. He is a guest. It's the eviction that has to be written and legal.


The question of whether or not he and his wife are renters when they don't pay rent is an interesting one. Since the MIL agreed to this, he and his wife pay for utilities, and maintain the place to some degree, I think they would be considered tenants. Again, he needs to talk to an attorney.



DownByTheRiver said:


> I know one time I was given a verbal at a rental unit. He gave me verbal notice that my roommate needed to go. He said otherwise he'd file an eviction. That's how it works here anyway. No need to go to court as long as the tenant cooperates. If the eviction is successful even though the tenant was uncooperative, he will pay court and attorney costs necessary to evict him. So that's why I saw the clock is ticking and cooperation is your cheapest route by far. Anything else is just mounting up debt you will be responsible for down the road.


Yep, he needs to talk to an attorney.

I know of someone here who did not pay his rent for 6 months. The landlord took him to court. The court found for the landlord and said that the guy had to pay the landlord's legal and court costs. But then the judge said that since the guy had little to no income the judge excused him from having to pay the legal/court costs. Really weird. That's why knowing the local courts is important.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's not been paying or working. She has. But yes.


When one spouse pays the bills, legally it means that both spouses are paying the bills because it's coming out of martial income.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> The question of whether or not he and his wife are renters when they don't pay rent is an interesting one. Since the MIL agreed to this, he and his wife pay for utilities, and maintain the place to some degree, I think they would be considered tenants. Again, he needs to talk to an attorney.
> 
> 
> Yep, he needs to talk to an attorney.
> ...


It falls into the squatter black hole once he's been asked to leave and doesn't. There are people who have had to evict their own slacker kids to get them out.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> When one spouse pays the bills, legally it means that both spouses are paying the bills because it's coming out of martial income.


Yes, but that's still not rent or house payments. That still doesn't give him claim to any of this house. Nor her, for that matter. If the mom wanted to, she could evict them both. 

While he was welcome there, he was a guest. Now that he's not, if he doesn't leave, he will be a squatter. Still requires a legal eviction. Unless CPS has to get involved because behavior escalates.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@jppaul5280

Sorry about the thread jack about tenant's rights, but I think the topic is important to you. 

Could you clarify a few things?
Do you have a written agreement with your MIL about you and your wife living there? Or do you have any emails, letters, or anything else where this is mentioned?


How many years was your wife working only part time?
How many years have you earned less than your wife?
Are you working part time now? Or do you work full time and earn less than your wife?
I think I read that you don't have money to see an attorney. There are things you can do. 

Many attorneys will give free half-hour to one-hour consultations so you can talk to them in hopes that you hire them. You could set up appointments with 3 or 4 attorneys and ask time questions. Make a good list of questions and ask each one of them the questions. You will learn a lot about what your rights are in this situation. One thing you could ask about is if the lawyer would go to court and ask the judge to have your wife pay for your legal representation since you don't have the income to do it. We could help you compile that list.

Another thing you could do is to find a divorce mediator. Tell your wife that you will move out as soon as two things are done. 
1) You have a child custody/visitation plan in place. It could be an interim plan that is inplace until a final one it established with the divorce.​2) You and she come to agreement on how you moving out will be paid for. The cost of you moving out needs to come from marital income and assets.​​Also, go to your state's court self-help website and get the instructions and forms for a pro se (self-representation) divorce. You need to learn the divorce & custody process/laws in your state.

Also do some google searches for divorce issues you have in your state. There are a lot of lawyers who provide a lot of info online addressing the issues. Learn from them.

On top of that you need to find a full-time job NOW.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, but that's still not rent or house payments. That still doesn't give him claim to any of this house. Nor her, for that matter. If the mom wanted to, she could evict them both.
> 
> While he was welcome there, he was a guest. Now that he's not, if he doesn't leave, he will be a squatter. Still requires a legal eviction. Unless CPS has to get involved because behavior escalates.


1. He is not a guest.
2. He is not a squatter.

Even if he pays nothing it is considered a marital home. It's no different than when the husband earns the money and the wife is a homemaker. Same rules apply.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> 1. He is not a guest.
> 2. He is not a squatter.
> 
> Even if he pays nothing it is considered a marital home. It's no different than when the husband earns the money and the wife is a homemaker. Same rules apply.


He is neither a renter nor a homeowner. The owner could evict both of them if she wanted to. Marital home or not.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He is neither a renter nor a homeowner. The owner could evict both of them if she wanted to. Marital home or not.


I'm not nor have I argued that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Benbutton said:


> 1. He is not a guest.
> 2. He is not a squatter.
> 
> Even if he pays nothing it is considered a marital home. It's no different than when the husband earns the money and the wife is a homemaker. Same rules apply.


Same rules don't apply. Neither one owns the home, it's completely not like an earner and a homemaker situation.

It's not their property.

Wife gets to stay only because the property owner doesn't want her out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I wonder if the grandmother didn’t see this coming and made this house arrangement to protect her grandchildren. This way no matter what happens her grandkids do not have to move. An unrecognized value older women have is that we are experienced. Another is our instinct to protect our young. Even from themselves if we have to. Mom may have known that things weren’t great and is doing this so she knows her grand babies will have a place to live no matter what.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

See a good attorney. Now


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Same rules don't apply. Neither one owns the home, it's completely not like an earner and a homemaker situation.
> 
> It's not their property.
> 
> Wife gets to stay only because the property owner doesn't want her out.


By law they are still married and live in the same domicile. He is not a guest nor a squatter because by legal definition he does not fit either category. 

Court intervention is required, whether by eviction or divorce proceedings. He has legal standing to remain until a court orders otherwise.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Benbutton said:


> By law they are still married and live in the same domicile. He is not a guest nor a squatter because by legal definition he does not fit either category.
> 
> Court intervention is required, whether by eviction or divorce proceedings. He has legal standing to remain until a court orders otherwise.


Wrong in that them being married has anything to do with the fact that the owner of the property, a third party, wants him out of the house, when it comes down to it. Wife doesn't own the house. Owner of the house wants him out. Wife was just the messenger.

Marriage isn't a factor regarding the house and the eviction of him. They could be friends who had been living together in that house and the owner now wants one friend (him) to GTFO but says the other can stay (her). 

Sure court action might be involved in when and how he GTFO, but it's not marital because the owner of the house isn't a party to the marriage. 

Owner of the house isn't a party to the marriage and it's not marital property.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Somebody saw this coming.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Wrong in that them being married has anything to do with the fact that the owner of the property, a third party, wants him out of the house, when it comes down to it. Wife doesn't own the house. Owner of the house wants him out. Wife was just the messenger.


There are two issues here. 
1) His wife told him to leave. She has zero legal authority/right to force him out of their marital home.

2) His MIL owns the house. She has to follow Colorado landlord laws. She has to give him a written eviction letter and give him the length of time required by law to get out of the property. Per Colorado law, even if she gives him an eviction notice, he can stay in the property until the MIL goes to court and gets a court order of eviction. Also, kicking him out because the wife wants him out is not a legal reason for evicting him from the property. That's the law in the state where he lives.

He has the same legal rights as any other rentor in the state of Colorado. It does no matter that he and his wife do not pay rent because the MIL has agreed to them no paying rent for years. 

The law matters. This is why he needs to get an attorney or at least talk to several of them in those free interviews many of them give to new potential clients. He also needs to get versed in the renter's right's laws in Colorado.



> Marriage isn't a factor regarding the house and the eviction of him. They could be friends who had been living together in that house and the owner now wants one friend (him) to GTFO but says the other can stay (her).


Nor is his wife wanting him out of the property a reason recognized by Colorado law for evicting him. Again the MIL will need to give him a written eviction notice, and he can stay until the MIL goes to court and gets a court order for him to vacate the property. This would take weeks, if not months.



> Sure court action might be involved in when and how he GTFO, but it's not marital because the owner of the house isn't a party to the marriage.


Again, the MIL owns the property. The MIL is the landlord and needs to follow Colorado law. Under Colorado law, a tenant can only be evicted for cause.

Since the MIL has established for years that the amount of rent is $0, him paying $0 in rent is not cause for eviction.

_"Colorado state law has defined legal cause as the tenant failing to pay rent, violating the lease or rental agreement, or committing a serious act, such as a crime or violence toward another resident. To evict the tenant for one of these reasons, the landlord must first terminate the rental agreement or lease. This happens when the landlord gives the tenant a notice."_​​


> Owner of the house isn't a party to the marriage and it's not marital property.


Yep, his wife can't kick him out.

The MIL has to follow the law to evict him if he wants to push for eviction.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Folks, this whole thing about whether or not his wife can throw him out of the house and the MIL's right to evict him has been beat to death on this thread. The bottom line is that he needs to talk to a lawyer about his rights both as a husband whose wife is trying to kick him out of the marital home and about the potential that is his landlord (MIL) might try to evict him for no valid cause since he has not broken the 'rental agreement' and he's not committed a crime.

It's now a thread jack. Let's end the debate between members on this topic. It's no longer helpful to the OP.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Let me throw this out there. All of this talk about how she can't kick him out may have legal merit, but right now they're fairly amicable. He might want to consider the risk reward of digging his heels in.

It's not his house and he's lived there rent free. He's ultimately going to have to leave even if he delays it. If there's a good reason, like making sure it doesn't affect child custody (I doubt it will) that's fine. But while it makes everyone feel better to advise him to take a screw her attitude he's going to have to coparent, and digging his heels in may create hostility for no reason.

My ex hasn't paid cs in years. I made the decision not to pursue ir because he doesn't have any money and we get along fairly well, which is good for our boys. I could take him to court and maybe get a few bucks but the friendliness would be gone and our boys would suffer for it. What I might get isn't worth it.

Him digging his heels in and forcing MIL to evict him might make people here feel good but it's not going to change the outcome which is that he's going to have to leave. Its not an asset he has any claim to. Showing her his ass over what can be done legally will only delay the inevitable and may damage the amicable relationship, which will benefit nobody.

Plenty of posters know what it's like to coparent with someone with which they have a poor relationship.


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