# Another teacher sex story, it's like no one watches the news



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

This upstanding god fearing snowflake waited until her husband was gone before inviting the lad around and doing the deed. She got caught, her life is probably over and seems the husband (and good on him too) swiftly filed for divorce..none of this I'll stand with you and forgive you for banging a teenage boy 90 times.

Payson dance teacher charged with raping male student | Deseret News


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

BobSimmons said:


> This upstanding god fearing snowflake waited until her husband was gone before inviting the lad around and doing the deed. She got caught, her life is probably over and seems the husband (and good on him too) swiftly filed for divorce..none of this I'll stand with you and forgive you for banging a teenage boy 90 times.
> 
> Payson dance teacher charged with raping male student | Deseret News


Ffs he was seventeen not seven.If this is rape then we better start building a hell of a lot of prisons because half the country would be guilty.
I'm not excusing the fact that she was a teacher,but rape.No ****in way.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Ffs he was seventeen not seven.If this is rape then we better start building a hell of a lot of prisons because half the country would be guilty.
> I'm not excusing the fact that she was a teacher,but rape.No ****in way.


Not the point really is it? 

She's a teacher in a position of responsibility and you know that little thing called the law, if they are under a certain age, you're breaking it.


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## lorikeet25 (Jun 22, 2016)

She definitely should lose her teaching credential, but I'm having a hard time getting outraged. 
He offered, she agreed. Inappropriate? Sure. But rape? I don't think so.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

The hell? Is it normal for Americans to still be at the secondary level at 17? We leave at sixteen where I'm from.

If the age of consent in the country is 17 then she should have known better. It is 16 here. Also she even supplied alcohol? Wow. These things lead to unfair treatment in class? That's what I would be mad about if I was in a class with this boy. If I am studying hard to get a good grade and because Chad over here is humping her he is getting As. Hell no!

BTW @BobSimmons how do you know she was god-fearing?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Job?

Gone.

Marriage? Family? Home?

Gone.

Alimony may also be unlikely due to proof of infidelity, plus her STBXH may have a solid case for full or primary custody.

Hope it was worth it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> Ffs he was seventeen not seven.If this is rape then we better start building a hell of a lot of prisons because half the country would be guilty.
> I'm not excusing the fact that she was a teacher,but rape.No ****in way.





lorikeet25 said:


> She definitely should lose her teaching credential, but I'm having a hard time getting outraged.
> He offered, she agreed. Inappropriate? Sure. But rape? I don't think so.


Statutory rape by an adult in a position of authority. Plus if the kid was in alternative school due to any mental handicap then there may very well be a case for charges that go well beyond statutory rape.

She also provided alcohol -- and a lot of it -- to minors. As in under 21, not 18.

She should lose more than her teaching certification.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Aparently there is also a second student who she gave alcohol and then had sex with. The law reads that if the person holds a position of authority over the child, they cannot consent to sex until they are 18. She, being their teacher, was in a position of authority and so they could not consent under law at age 16 or 17. 

The reality was that she got these boys drunk and used her position to goad them into sex. She deserves what she gets, just as I would feel if this were a male teacher intoxicating a female student then having sex with her. 

I'm glad her husband filed for divorce, but what a crappy way to find out! 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If he is under age 18, it's child abuse, too. She should be a registered sex offender. That's what they would do to a man. Oh, that's different. So sorry.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@EunuchMonk 17 is the normal age for a HS senior in the states. Depending when and where he was born he could be 18. To echo the point other posters made: the age of consent depends on the state you live in, although the norm seems 16, by law. The term used to describe when it is broken is "statutory". Unlike the normal rape charge the under age does not have to press charges, in fact even if they don't want to the parents can. 

A few decades ago there where a lot of stories about male teachers have sexual relations with 16 years olds. The girl could be 16 years and a weak when the intercourse happened no charges could be brought. So most states change the law to include any student/teacher intercourse regardless of age. If the boy was 18 she still would be charged as she was a teacher in his school. This provision applied only to teachers and admin. Note if he worked for her at a job, no chateges would likeky be brought. If it was the 45 year old neighbor no charges would be brought because he was of legal age to give consent.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In 2014 alone, there were 781 reported cases of teachers and other school employees accused or convicted of sexual relationships with students. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...schools-can-stop-them/?utm_term=.81e05286a9a4


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> If he is under age 18, it's child abuse, too. She should be a registered sex offender. That's what they would do to a man. Oh, that's different. So sorry.



What if it shouldn't be done to either sex? I met my husband when I was 15 and he was 25. We started going out when I was 16, and was engaged at 17. I offered to give myself to him a dozen times but he said no, not until I'm legal. If I had asked him and he'd said yes, he would have then committed a crime and been called a child sex offender. For having sex with his then-fiancee! That's messed up if you ask me.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Ffs he was seventeen not seven.If this is rape then we better start building a hell of a lot of prisons because half the country would be guilty.
> I'm not excusing the fact that she was a teacher,but rape.No ****in way.


*In Texas, it's commonly referred to as "statutory rape!"

Inasfar as the conviction probabilities go here with the criminal courts and prosecutors on such a charge, and taking into exception that Utah is a far more socially conservative state than Texas, I'd have to say that the ease of convicting her there in Utah would be a mere prosecutors dream! 

In any event, "bully" to her H, for expeditiously dropping the "D bomb" on her skanky a$$!*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> What if it shouldn't be done to either sex? I met my husband when I was 15 and he was 25. We started going out when I was 16, and was engaged at 17. I offered to give myself to him a dozen times but he said no, not until I'm legal. If I had asked him and he'd said yes, he would have then committed a crime and been called a child sex offender. For having sex with his then-fiancee! That's messed up if you ask me.


When I was barely fifteen I took lifeguard training classes,the instructor paired us off with people of similar height.I wasn't fully grown at that stage physically but mentally I was fully developed.I was put training with a girl called Denise who was seventeen.I suggested to her that we practice at my dads pool because the classes were only once a week.Well,I had a hell of a time with Denise and I don't mean swimming,but I never considered myself as a rape or sexual abuse victim.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> What if it shouldn't be done to either sex? I met my husband when I was 15 and he was 25. We started going out when I was 16, and was engaged at 17. *I offered to give myself to him a dozen times* but he said no, not until I'm legal. If I had asked him and he'd said yes, he would have then committed a crime and been called a child sex offender. For having sex with his then-fiancee! That's messed up if you ask me.


Some would take advantage,but was this a real wise decision that you made? There are reasons that these laws are in place aside from encountering a predator.

https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Familie...-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

TBT said:


> Some would take advantage,but was this a real wise decision that you made? There are reasons that these laws are in place aside from encountering a predator.
> 
> https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Familie...-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx


It was only a bad idea in that horrible things would have happened to my fiance if we got caught. When I asked him, I was relatively certain we wouldn't get caught because we both had a lot to lose if we did! The law aside, my having sex with my 27-year-old fiancé at 17 would have been a very morally neutral thing to do and would not have damaged me psychologically any more than it would have if he had been 17 or if I had been 18.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> It was only a bad idea in that horrible things would have happened to my fiance if we got caught. When I asked him, I was relatively certain we wouldn't get caught because we both had a lot to lose if we did! The law aside, my having sex with my 27-year-old fiancé at 17 would have been a very morally neutral thing to do and would not have damaged me psychologically any more than it would have if he had been 17 or if I had been 18.


So what would you suggest to identify real predators and hold them accountable? They are out there and can be subtle as opposed to extreme.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I live relatively close to there. Culturally even closer. Most kids in "alternative" high Schools here, are considered "at risk", which is a nice euphemism for just about to flunk out. Most of them are substance abusers of some sort. But, and this is the bit that has me shaking my head, most of the teachers in these schools are top notch very experienced educators. This perp looks like she went straight from college to teaching troubled students. Not a very wise administrative decision.


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## Itwasjustafantasy (Jan 8, 2016)

A teacher is in a position of power in regards to their students. I worked in a school with many students who due to receiving special education services were allowed to continue to be in school untilt the age of 21. Just because there is a small age difference between student and teacher that does not give a right to the teacher to take advantage of their position of power to "fall in love" or engage in any kind of sexual relationship with their students. There are laws in place and until they change one must follow the law. There is a code of ethics that educators must follow and if they cannot do so then maybe they need to accept the consequences of their actions.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> What if it shouldn't be done to either sex? I met my husband when I was 15 and he was 25. We started going out when I was 16, and was engaged at 17. I offered to give myself to him a dozen times but he said no, not until I'm legal. If I had asked him and he'd said yes, he would have then committed a crime and been called a child sex offender. For having sex with his then-fiancee! That's messed up if you ask me.


He was ten years older than you. That is a red flag. There are things to consider. His and your mental abilities to understand what you were doing, whether or not you or he could get an sti or std, pregnancy and your abilities to rais a child and take care of yourselves on your own, the availability of you to get to a doctor if you got pregnant, and if you could afford to pay for diapers, medicines, formula and keep a roof over your heads. 





Andy1001 said:


> When I was barely fifteen I took lifeguard training classes,the instructor paired us off with people of similar height.I wasn't fully grown at that stage physically but mentally I was fully developed.I was put training with a girl called Denise who was seventeen.I suggested to her that we practice at my dads pool because the classes were only once a week.Well,I had a hell of a time with Denise and I don't mean swimming,but I never considered myself as a rape or sexual abuse victim.


Depends on age difference and many other factors, as well as your parents knowledge and permission. Apparently, they were okay with it and even encouraged it by allowing you two to practice without supervision. They knew and took a chance. You don't say how old she was. 


Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post 
It was only a bad idea in that horrible things would have happened to my fiance if we got caught. When I asked him, I was relatively certain we wouldn't get caught because we both had a lot to lose if we did! The law aside, my having sex with my 27-year-old fiancé at 17 would have been a very morally neutral thing to do and would not have damaged me psychologically any more than it would have if he had been 17 or if I had been 18.


Let's leave morals out of it and just deal with reality of what could happen, as I did above. He was way too old for you and your parents and his either knew and were okay with it, didn't care, or were hoping you would marry him and leave the home by 18. I say he was way too old in the same breath that I say, he may not have been if his mental and emotional development hadn't grown as a normal person's would. 

Figure it this way. You hadn't even grown to know anything much about life and the hardships associated. You had really no clue. He should have had some clue at 27, unless he was living at home and didn't have any responsibilities yet. There is a lot missing here that could change the thoughts.


However, this article and thread is about teachers having sex with students. It's not about boys and girls and their sexual escapades while getting their first kiss. There is a pretty good size difference when a child, even at 17 is looking up to and believing what someone that is a representative of all of their past teachers combined, whom they had to follow and believe and take orders from. 

That puts the teacher in the position of a trusted baby sitter, an uncle or aunt, or though it's a stretch to me, a parent. I say this simply because of the parents of students who will punish their child for not doing the homework their teacher gave them, for skipping classes, for talking in class and causing interruptions in the lessons. You see, parents backing what the teacher has to say let's the children know they are in charge and should be respected as if they were their parents during class time. 

So, it's a little different than a boyfriend - girlfriend type of relationship, though, in some cases the age and maturity differences in boyfriends and girlfriends can be an issue. This type of relationship can be thwarted in some cases by the parents and how they have raised their children. It depends on a lot of things. 

I didn't mean to say that you, Elle, or anyone else who had a May-December childhood dating relationship was wrong. Each, I think, has to be looked at on it's own merits in those instances.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> He was ten years older than you. That is a red flag. There are things to consider. His and your mental abilities to understand what you were doing, whether or not you or he could get an sti or std, pregnancy and your abilities to rais a child and take care of yourselves on your own, the availability of you to get to a doctor if you got pregnant, and if you could afford to pay for diapers, medicines, formula and keep a roof over your heads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I made it clear Denise was seventeen.My parents new nothing about it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

The amount of pearl-clutching about stories like this would be hilarious if lives weren't being ruined by the law.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> I made it clear Denise was seventeen.My parents new nothing about it.


Did you post the age difference between you two? Sorry I missed that. You must have known that it wasn't going to be a practice session, if you could help it. I mean, since your parents knew nothing about it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

tech-novelist said:


> The amount of pearl-clutching about stories like this would be hilarious if lives weren't being ruined by the law.



Erring on the side of caution seems prudent.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Did you post the age difference between you two? Sorry I missed that. You must have known that it wasn't going to be a practice session, if you could help it. I mean, since your parents knew nothing about it.


The point I'm trying to make is that Denise could and still could be charged with rape of a minor when it was the minor (me)who instigated the sex.I still maintain this is a ridiculous scenario but in fairness I don't know how else the law can be implemented in this type of situation.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Erring on the side of caution seems prudent.


Yes, precisely because of the law, as I thought I had made clear.

Otherwise this whole issue is a tempest in a teapot.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

A 25 year old dating a 15 year old girl.
I'll just say that's a bad idea and leave it at that.

Should it be prosecuted as a crime? Yes, there needs to be legal boundaries in place to protect KIDS from making poor decisions with grown people who are capable of taking advantage of them.

I think there should be some logic involved in the sex offender label. 

I guess I just wanted to say I'm glad you're happy, Ella, but I sure think 99% of the time, 15 and 25 is matches and gasoline.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that Denise could and still could be charged with rape of a minor when it was the minor (me)who instigated the sex.I still maintain this is a ridiculous scenario but in fairness I don't know how else the law can be implemented in this type of situation.


I don't see the correlation between you and your "girlfriend" having sex at daddy's pool when she is not your instructor, versus a teacher/student relationship where the teacher has been to university and likely taken courses in philosophy, higher mathematics, and English literature which is full of sexual analogy and suggestion. 

The student in this case is likely a drug user who has an underdeveloped frontal lobe and amygdala based on that possible drug use and the level of education he is currently in. 

These are huge differences in the educator and student. In this instance, I am leaving out the idea that she is supposed to be his educator, and as such trusted to teach him things he needs to know to get himself through life in as productive way as possible. I guess the experience of sex was meant to help him learn how to get a good woman who has a good education and tenured position with a company that pays her a healthy salary. That way, she can take care of him? 

What argument can you possibly make that makes any sense?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't see the correlation between you and your "girlfriend" having sex at daddy's pool when she is not your instructor, versus a teacher/student relationship where the teacher has been to university and likely taken courses in philosophy, higher mathematics, and English literature which is full of sexual analogy and suggestion.
> 
> The student in this case is likely a drug user who has an underdeveloped frontal lobe and amygdala based on that possible drug use and the level of education he is currently in.
> 
> ...


My position is that a 15 year old boy who gets to have sex with a 25 year old woman would end up with the nickname "Lucky Bastard".
The other way around, not so much.

That probably makes me a sexist pig, but I'm used to that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

tech-novelist said:


> My position is that a 15 year old boy who gets to have sex with a 25 year old woman would end up with the nickname "Lucky Bastard".
> The other way around, not so much.
> 
> That probably makes me a sexist pig, but I'm used to that.


That is the general problem. Isn't it? 

Have fun with the thread.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Ok 2nt. I have a problem with him being called a "lucky bastard". He's not a bastard. I hear there's a petition circulated by the male students to bring the teacher back on campus.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't see the correlation between you and your "girlfriend" having sex at daddy's pool when she is not your instructor, versus a teacher/student relationship where the teacher has been to university and likely taken courses in philosophy, higher mathematics, and English literature which is full of sexual analogy and suggestion.
> 
> The student in this case is likely a drug user who has an underdeveloped frontal lobe and amygdala based on that possible drug use and the level of education he is currently in.
> 
> ...


My argument is that if the letter of the law is followed Denise is guilty of statutory rape even though I invited her to swim in my parents pool with the sole intention of having sex with her.What is in any way sensible about this?Now don't get me wrong,Denise was no innocent abroad,she was starting college that year and had broken up with her boyfriend a few weeks earlier.
And I did feel like a lucky bastard by the way.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> VladDracul
> Re: Another teacher sex story, it's like no one watches the news
> 
> Ok 2nt. I have a problem with him being called a "lucky bastard". He's not a bastard. I hear there's a petition circulated by the male students to bring the teacher back on campus.





tech-novelist said:


> My position is that a 15 year old boy who gets to have sex with a 25 year old woman would end up with the nickname "Lucky Bastard".
> The other way around, not so much.
> 
> That probably makes me a sexist pig, but I'm used to that.





2ntnuf said:


> That is the general problem. Isn't it?
> 
> Have fun with the thread.



Vlad, you need to take that up with tech. I neither called him, nor agreed with him being either, "lucky" or a "bastard". 

In fact, I'm of the opposite opinion, as my response to him suggested that calling him that was "the general problem". 

In other words, the issue is that folks think it is great that a boy gets to have sex with his teacher. Fantasies need to be kept fantasies. In the real world, that is illegal. 

Oh, I do assume you posted that with tongue in cheek.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> My argument is that if the letter of the law is followed Denise is guilty of statutory rape even though I invited her to swim in my parents pool with the sole intention of having sex with her.What is in any way sensible about this?Now don't get me wrong,Denise was no innocent abroad,she was starting college that year and had broken up with her boyfriend a few weeks earlier.
> And I did feel like a lucky bastard by the way.


Two totally different scenarios. I think, given the situation, that this woman should be prosecuted to the fullest extent given that she had a position of authority over these troubled teens and used alcohol as part of the process. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Two totally different scenarios. I think, given the situation, that this woman should be prosecuted to the fullest extent given that she had a position of authority over these troubled teens and used alcohol as part of the process.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


I agree with you one hundred percent.If the letter of the law is followed though,both women would be guilty of the same statutory rape crime.The teacher would be considered more guilty but if the law is followed to the letter my friend would be in the same boat.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> My argument is that if the letter of the law is followed Denise is guilty of statutory rape even though I invited her to swim in my parents pool with the sole intention of having sex with her.What is in any way sensible about this?Now don't get me wrong,Denise was no innocent abroad,she was starting college that year and had broken up with her boyfriend a few weeks earlier.
> And I did feel like a lucky bastard by the way.


And again, I did not agree with either calling him "lucky" or "bastard", but posted that an attitude like that is the general problem. 

Is she or are you? 

Assuming you are correct, that Denise is guilty of statutory rape, what ever happened? Did your parents file charges? Why or why not? 

Are you asking me what is in any way sensible about a law that says Denise statutorily raped you? 

What does her boyfriend have to do with the rape? Was he there at the pool with you and Denise?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> And again, I did not agree with either calling him "lucky" or "bastard", but posted that an attitude like that is the general problem.
> 
> Is she or are you?
> 
> ...


Can you actually read an entire paragraph or do you just pick certain sentences to justify your opinions?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> I agree with you one hundred percent.If the letter of the law is followed though,both women would be guilty of the same statutory rape crime.The teacher would be considered more guilty but if the law is followed to the letter my friend would be in the same boat.


I asked, what did your parents do about this rape? 

Denise should be in the same boat. She broke the law, just as did the teacher. I see very little difference in the guilt or innocence of the two.



Do you realize what you are asking? I don't really think you do. You are asking how we or I should judge her. That is what you are asking.

I am not judging her. I am telling you. 

Both broke the law. 

That's simple and it's over now. 

There is nothing to discuss. 

No one is either lucky or a bastard, or a lucky bastard. I do not agree with that one iota. Not one. It was rape in both cases. There is nothing funny, humorous or snarky about rape. There is not pat the good old boy on the back. I do not agree with that kind of action or attitude. That's final.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Can you actually read an entire paragraph or do you just pick certain sentences to justify your opinions?


I can and do read an entire paragraph. Then, I pick and chose what I want to answer. 

You know why, Andy? 

Because...........wait for it...................IDGAF


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I won't go too far into this but I have been in a similar though not exact situation as the student in this story. Although at the time I was all for it, it did mess up my perceptions for quite a while. In my EXPERIENCE she deserves what she gets. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I asked, what did your parents do about this rape?
> 
> Denise should be in the same boat. She broke the law, just as did the teacher. I see very little difference in the guilt or innocence of the two.
> 
> ...


YOU may consider it rape but I don't and frankly your opinion is meaningless to me because you don't know what you are talking about so you try and twist the narrative to suit yourself.I told you allready my parents knew nothing about Denise but again you ask me what they thought.To be honest I think you have more problems in your life than me willingly having sex with a willing partner.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I can and do read an entire paragraph. Then, I pick and chose what I want to answer.
> 
> You know why, Andy?
> 
> Because...........wait for it...................IDGAF


That's what I love,an intelligent answer.You must be a real pleasure to be around.Not.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Andy, you want an intelligent answer?

Read the law. Does it say that it was rape? .....................Well?


Yes?


Then it was. You are arguing no point at all. You can't stand the facts. You live in a dream world where you can make your own laws and choose which apply to you and which don't. 

There's your intelligent answer. I've been alluding to that all along. I don't see how anyone can misunderstand or argue with that unless they are incapable of understanding simple thoughts.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I agree with you one hundred percent.If the letter of the law is followed though,*both women would be guilty of the same statutory rape crime.*The teacher would be considered more guilty but if the law is followed to the letter my friend would be in the same boat.


Not necessarily. It all depends on the state's statutory rape law. In New York, it would be doubtful that your friend could be charged because you were 15 and she was 17. If there had been 4 or more years difference in ages, then she may be able to be charged. It all depends on the age of the minor and the age of the partner at the time of the incident. Each state's law could differ.

This teacher's behavior was quite egregious with the age difference and the plying the child with alcohol. Does anyone want someone so stupid teaching their children?

Even if the boy does think he was one lucky bastard, she should have known better. She is a predator.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> In 2014 alone, there were 781 reported cases of teachers and other school employees accused or convicted of sexual relationships with students.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...schools-can-stop-them/?utm_term=.81e05286a9a4


Damn it, Texas.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Not necessarily. It all depends on the state's statutory rape law. In New York, it would be doubtful that your friend could be charged because you were 15 and she was 17. If there had been 4 or more years difference in ages, then she may be able to be charged. It all depends on the age of the minor and the age of the partner at the time of the incident. Each state's law could differ.
> 
> This teacher's behavior was quite egregious with the age difference and the plying the child with alcohol. Does anyone want someone so stupid teaching their children?
> 
> Even if the boy does think he was one lucky bastard, she should have known better. She is a predator.


Big difference between 15/17 and 17/27.

The student/teacher relationship also has to be taken into account, as well as the fact that this lady was likely providing alcohol for several underage kids.

IOW, yep.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Vlad, you need to take that up with tech. I neither called him, nor agreed with him being either, "lucky" or a "bastard".


I'z being tongue in cheek my man. If you take away "bastard" in the phrase, you're still left with "lucky". But to get down to reality, what redblood American heterosexual teenage boy hadn't dreamed about doing a teacher. My senior year, better than a half century ago, we had the thirty something year old librarian that was built like a brick house. I'd walked a mile through a blinding storm just to hear her say my name over a telephone.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> I'z being tongue in cheek my man. If you take away "bastard" in the phrase, you're still left with "lucky". But to get down to reality, what redblood American heterosexual teenage boy hadn't dreamed about doing a teacher. My senior year, better than a half century ago, we had the thirty something year old librarian that was built like a brick house. I'd walked a mile through a blinding storm just to hear her say my name over a telephone.


Lol.Now if that's not an expression of true love then I never heard one.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> In 2014 alone, there were 781 reported cases of teachers and other school employees accused or convicted of sexual relationships with students.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...schools-can-stop-them/?utm_term=.81e05286a9a4


I can't believe stupidity of these teachers. What are they thinking? They deserve their ruined lives just because they are so dumb. We have had a few of these types of incidents at the high schools in our area and the teachers were all caught because the student would brag to friends through text. Though it does make me wonder how many teachers don't get caught. I had a high school classmate marry one of our teachers after graduation. No one knew anything was going on. A couple of years ago I was reading a FB page dedicated to where I grew up and the teachers sleeping with students topic came up. It was pretty shocking how many people had stories.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Apparently some people can't tell the difference between "immoral" and "illegal". There is only a tenuous connection between those two concepts, and in many cases they have virtually nothing to do with one another.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't see the correlation between you and your "girlfriend" having sex at daddy's pool when she is not your instructor, versus a teacher/student relationship where the teacher has been to university and likely taken courses in philosophy, higher mathematics, and English literature which is full of sexual analogy and suggestion.
> 
> The student in this case is likely a drug user who has an underdeveloped frontal lobe and amygdala based on that possible drug use and the level of education he is currently in.
> 
> ...


Earlier you asked what should be done to protect teens and also weed out abusers. I fell in love with my husband when I was 16 and he was 26. Both our parents knew and gave it their blessing. I have also been a victim of abuse. The difference in how i felt ineach of these relationships is night and day. Even though I said I wanted to be in the abusive relationship, I also began having frequent panic attacks and other signs of psychological distress when I was thinking of or in contact with my abuser. That psychological distress, not age, is what law enforcement should be looking for when determining the legality of a relationship. 

I think the laws for abuse need to be tightened. There needs to be a "registered domestic abuser" list for anyone who can be proven to have threatened anyone in order to get sex or a relationship, or who physically harms or emotionally manipulates their partner. Punishments for emotional, physical, and sexual abuse should be lifelong if there is evidence of it, like a VAR recording, a camera, or chat logs. If it's just the alleged abuser's word against the alleged victim, then the victim should be able to file a retraining order more easily, and the consequences for violating that order should be much harsher, like 25 to life in prison. 

Meanwhile, the age of consent should be dramatically lowered, perhaps to 14 like it is in Japan, or maybe 15. The concept of "child sexual abuse" in regards to a teenager should be done away with altogether, and the moral and legal line should be based only on consent. Basically, the law should be based much more on whether the younger party feels safe, happy, and mentally okay with the relationship, and much less on an arbitrary number.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ella,

I do find many of your posts to be.......different, if not interesting.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Meanwhile, the age of consent should be dramatically lowered, perhaps to 14 like it is in Japan, or maybe 15. *The concept of "child sexual abuse" should be done away with altogether, and the moral and legal line should be based only on consent. Basically, the law should be based much more on whether the younger party feels safe, happy, and mentally okay with the relationship, and much less on an arbitrary number."*

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that you don't know what the **** you are talking about.


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## Itwasjustafantasy (Jan 8, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Meanwhile, the age of consent should be dramatically lowered, perhaps to 14 like it is in Japan, or maybe 15. The concept of "child sexual abuse" in regards to a teenager should be done away with altogether, and the moral and legal line should be based only on consent. Basically, the law should be based much more on whether the younger party feels safe, happy, and mentally okay with the relationship, and much less on an arbitrary number.


The problem with this is how does one define consent. Consent usually implies the ability of the person giving consent to actually understand fully what they are consenting to do and all the possible consequences. It is a fact that teenagers are generally impulsive and have difficulty delaying gratification so that certainly would affect their ability to give informed consent. Should they have to undergo a psychological evaluation to determine their level of maturity or cognitive ability to make appropriate decisions?
There are certainly some grey areas when it comes to consent.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Legally speaking, consent is impossible prior to the _age of consent_.

Duh.

Anyone OK w/ a 13-year-old "consenting" to sexual activity w/ a 30-year-old should pretty much be ignored, and w/ respect to pretty much anything.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that you don't know what the **** you are talking about.


As someone who fell in love with my now-husband when I was 16 and he was 26, and as someone who is still to this day judged for having been a minor in love with an adult, I'd say I know _exactly_ what I'm talking about.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Ella,
> 
> I do find many of your posts to be.......different, if not interesting.


As someone who fell in love with an adult as a minor, I'm exhausted of being treated like a victim in a relationship where I'm perfectly happy and healthy. Sometimes, people insist that I'm a victim of abuse from my very loving and very devoted husband _whether I know it or not_!! Meanwhile, I've also been actually abused, and there are people who have said I "deserved it" or I "should have known better".

So what I've learned from this is that age and gender have a LOT to do with how people perceive abuse, consent, etc, where it really shouldn't be. A teenage girl is always a helpless victim, even if she's happy and in love and there are no control issues in the relationship? An older man is always the abuser in a troubled relationship? These are stereotypes, and they're wrong.

Adult men can be abused. Teenage girls can be abused. Adult women can be abused. Teenage boys can be abused.

Adult men can consent. Teenage girls can consent. Adult women can consent. Teenage boys can consent.

Whether a relationship is healthy and mutually satisfying has NOTHING to do with age or gender. It had a whole lot more to do with the individual mental health of both parties in the relationship. People need to look at the couple's dynamics and at the individual persons' personalities, temperament, and mental wellness, and look for signs of trauma if they suspect a relationship isn't healthy. But no, that takes too much work and too much examination, so law enforcement just places these inaccurate and stereotypical labels on people.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Earlier you asked what should be done to protect teens and also weed out abusers. I fell in love with my husband when I was 16 and he was 26. Both our parents knew and gave it their blessing. I have also been a victim of abuse. The difference in how i felt ineach of these relationships is night and day. Even though I said I wanted to be in the abusive relationship, I also began having frequent panic attacks and other signs of psychological distress when I was thinking of or in contact with my abuser. That psychological distress, not age, is what law enforcement should be looking for when determining the legality of a relationship.
> 
> I think the laws for abuse need to be tightened. There needs to be a "registered domestic abuser" list for anyone who can be proven to have threatened anyone in order to get sex or a relationship, or who physically harms or emotionally manipulates their partner. Punishments for emotional, physical, and sexual abuse should be lifelong if there is evidence of it, like a VAR recording, a camera, or chat logs. If it's just the alleged abuser's word against the alleged victim, then the victim should be able to file a retraining order more easily, and the consequences for violating that order should be much harsher, like 25 to life in prison.
> 
> Meanwhile, the age of consent should be dramatically lowered, perhaps to 14 like it is in Japan, or maybe 15. The concept of "child sexual abuse" in regards to a teenager should be done away with altogether, and the moral and legal line should be based only on consent. Basically, the law should be based much more on whether the younger party feels safe, happy, and mentally okay with the relationship, and much less on an arbitrary number.


I have to side with Blondi on this. You are way out on a limb here. My daughter is almost 15 and there is no way in hell she should be married or having sex with someone who is an adult. Her thinking is so flawed on so many levels that it's sometimes difficult to figure out if she actually has a brain in there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, she's a straight A student and very bright for her age, but her ability to make life altering decisions is way lacking. She could easily be manipulated or intimidated into doing something stupid. Kids that age are not great at understanding consequences. Hell, how could they be? They have no real experience from which to draw. 

The fact that your parents didn't care enough to stop you from being married at 16 should not be an indication that ALL kids that age are ready to be adults. How you can argue this point is beyond my 47 year old comprehension. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MODERATOR WARNING:-

This thread is starting to get off topic.

Please, no more threadjacks, OK?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> When I was barely fifteen I took lifeguard training classes,the instructor paired us off with people of similar height.I wasn't fully grown at that stage physically but mentally I was fully developed.I was put training with a girl called Denise who was seventeen.I suggested to her that we practice at my dads pool because the classes were only once a week.Well,I had a hell of a time with Denise and I don't mean swimming,but I never considered myself as a rape or sexual abuse victim.


She wasnt your adult teacher in a position of responsibility.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

VladDracul said:


> I'z being tongue in cheek my man. If you take away "bastard" in the phrase, you're still left with "lucky". But to get down to reality, what redblood American heterosexual teenage boy hadn't dreamed about doing a teacher. My senior year, better than a half century ago, we had the thirty something year old librarian that was built like a brick house. I'd walked a mile through a blinding storm just to hear her say my name over a telephone.



OK. But on the flip side, maybe there are redblooded American heterosexual teenage girls who dream about doing a teacher? For those that push a double standard, do you not believe that girls can like sex as much as boys?

Furthermore, if the underlying theory of statutory rape laws is that the young teenager does not have the mental capacity to honestly "consent", wouldn't that reduced faculty be even more pronounced with a young male? After all, it is generally accepted that boys are developmentally behind girls at any given age, even through the teenaged years. Therefore, the "inability to give consent due to age" theory should be even MORE pronounced with the boys, who are developmentally behind their same-aged girl peers.

By that token, therefore, the teacher having sex with a boy in the Original Post would theoretically be WORSE than if the victim was a girl, due to the slower development of boys. He is more of a victim.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

The intellect development comparisons between the sex adds unnecessary complexity. Hence, the laws about teach<>student sex is simple. NO SEX WITH STUDENTS. Even if he or she is 19 years old, in highschool - a teacher or other staff of the school cannot have sex with a student. Now, if a teacher is in school A and the student is in school B at age 17+, then I doubt the law is broken, especially if in different school districts.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Another interesting case here in Texas involves a 28 year old female school teacher who was off on a school sanctioned trip abroad in Africa!

Evidence broadly suggests that while there was absolutely no sexual contact in the state prior to embarking upon the trip, but that it was certainly discussed amongst the participants here!

Having said that, once in Africa, this woman had numerous bouts of sex with both a 17 and 18 year old boy student of hers!

Upon discovery and upon returning from the trip, she summarily lost her teaching credentials, but the State of Texas is somewhat reluctant to charge her with a crime since the act was perpetrated over in a foreign jurisdiction!

And there is no current law on the books that would keep a teacher from simply talking or conspiring such a sex act!

Since she may soon sue the school district for reinstatement, the Texas legislature is soon to be considering making talking or planning such an activity a state criminal act!

Even if they succeed, it still could not be enforced because of its  ex post facto  status!*


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Wolfman1968 said:


> By that token, therefore, the teacher having sex with a boy in the Original Post would theoretically be WORSE than if the victim was a girl, due to the slower development of boys. He is more of a victim.


I don't go around wringing my hands over whether its ok for boys but not for girls. Ask any father or mother and if they speak the heart, they'll tell you if their 17 or 18 year old kids was doing a teacher, most would admit it would rather it be their son than their daughter, regardless of how opposed they would be to it. With my daughter, I'd be like some of the guys with cheating wives, "it that POSOM that caused it." Now, if it was a male teacher going after my son, he couldn't do anything more dangerous and would be lucky to make it to court. (yes, I'm saying just exactly what it sounds like I'm saying) Besides, if its a boy doing a female teacher, its a ego builder. I'd still be pounding my chest like a silver back gorilla if I'd had the grand opportunity to sleep with the librarian. And I most likely wouldn't have be any crazier than I am now. If her, or any other teacher, that wanted to put something on me that Ajax would take off and she got in trouble about it, I wouldn't have had a dog in that fight.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I lost my virginity when I was seventeen to a woman who was in her mid thirties. She was not a teacher nor in any position of authority over me. Just a divorced neighbor lady. I did not feel used, exploited, raped or violated in any way. I enjoyed the hell out of it and even went back for seconds a couple of weeks later. 

But in this case, this gal abused a position of public trust and took advantage of her teacher/student relationship. She should be punished, but for sexual misconduct with a minor...not rape.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *And there is no current law on the books that would keep a teacher from simply talking or conspiring such a sex act!
> 
> Since she may soon sue the school district for reinstatement, the Texas legislature is soon to be considering making talking or planning such an activity a state criminal act!
> 
> Even if they succeed, it still could not be enforced because of its  ex post facto * status![/B]


The state courts have no jurisdiction over offenses that occur outside Texas state borders. It wont fly.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> The state courts have no jurisdiction over offenses that occur outside Texas state borders. It wont fly.


*Exactly, Bandito!

But the puss-head District Attorney thinks that he may have something to hang his hat on in that the conspiratorial talk to have consentual sex abroad occurred between the teacher and her students prior to the trip here in the Lone Star State! I'm still thinking that the charges won't begin to fly, but he'll spend thousands in taxpayers money to experiment with it!!

And if, perchance, he doesn't get his way with his jurisdictional State District Court, it really wouldn't surprise me to see this "knot head" barrister attempt to try to find a way to extradite them all back to Cairo!

Let's just say that the U.S. State Department would have a literal field day on dealing with that one!

*


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> I lost my virginity when I was seventeen to a woman who was in her mid thirties. She was not a teacher


She was a teacher Bandit. Just not the kind that calls roll.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> She was a teacher Bandit. Just not the kind that calls roll.


And I was an apt student.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Exactly, Bandito!
> 
> But the puss-head District Attorney thinks that he may have something to hang his hat on in that the conspiratorial talk to have consentual sex abroad occurred between the teacher and her students prior to the trip here in the Lone Star State! I'm still thinking that the charges won't begin to fly, but he'll spend thousands in taxpayers money to experiment with it!!
> 
> ...


Boy...he will have a hard row to hew with that. First of all...do minors have the capacity to conspire with an adult? For instance, no minor can enter into a binding written contract with an adult because they are not considered old enough to be legally competent. So how can he say these boys were competent enough to conspire with this woman to do the Chakalaka Bing Bang in the bungalow once they got to Africa?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> She was a teacher Bandit. Just not the kind that calls roll.


*Yes, she was! She just asked all present to please "rise!"*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> And I was an apt student.


Did you come top of the class.........or did she.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Boy...he will have a hard row to hew with that. First of all...do minors have the capacity to conspire with an adult? For instance, no minor can enter into a binding written contract with an adult because they are not considered old enough to be legally competent. So how can he say these boys were competent enough to conspire with this woman to do the Chakalaka Bing Bang in the bungalow once they got to Africa?


*Not that I condone any of their actions, but I'd sure as hell like to be their defense attorney! I'd love to get into that DA's a$$! 

And have the District Judge join me, in dining there like a couple of voracious, underfed buzzards on his sheer lack of legal acumen and his rather apparent sophomoric legal knowledge!*


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Did you come top of the class.........or did she.


I think so. I also think there was some corporal punishment (spanking) involved.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I think so. I also think there was some corporal punishment (spanking) involved.


*Lucky Bandito!*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> I think so. I also think there was some corporal punishment (spanking) involved.


I bet you didn't mind being kept after school.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

I think this is ontopic for the thread and the forum:

Police: Lake Gibson Middle assistant principal and teacher killed by Lakeland man - News - The Ledger - Lakeland, FL


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Popcorn2015 said:


> I think this is ontopic for the thread and the forum:
> 
> Police: Lake Gibson Middle assistant principal and teacher killed by Lakeland man - News - The Ledger - Lakeland, FL


I guess I'm not seeing the connection between this tragedy and the Original Post.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

It's another story about a teacher cheating on her husband, with tragic consequences for all involved.

Mods can split it off if they want.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Got a song for you Bandit.


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