# Flashes in my head



## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

I go days without even thinking about what my wife did. And then I'm at work and all of a sudden something triggers it. I want to cry, and scream, and puke. I honestly didn't even feel like this when she confessed to me. How do you get through the day? How do you make it stop?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

FSR,

We have been through this. At the time of confession, it goes something like mechanical "take it easy type" for the BS. The reality of anger, disappointment etc sets in a little later, when alone.

So, take to counseling. When was the DDay? If it is far back, say 6 months, the anger should be less frequent. In any case, talk to your counselor.

Take care.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

I started counseling. Had 2 appointments so far. Just having one of those days. She confessed June 6th while I was in the emergency room getting diagnosed for an STD. Turned out to not be an STD a few days later when the blood tests came back, but she felt she had come clean right then. 6 months from now, I'm sure it will be out of my head. Days 1, 2, and 3 were awful. Its getting better... more spread out I guess.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I listened to gangsta rap, a music genre I previously hated. It kinda helped.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

ha! awesome. I will never stoop that low, but that was the first time I've smiled this morning, so thank you


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Hey, don't diss it before you try! I didn't understand more than a few words in the lyrics (and they all will be replaced with asterisks by forum software here), but the overall attitude was really called for.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

forthesakeofreason said:


> ha! awesome. I will never stoop that low, but that was the first time I've smiled this morning, so thank you


Haven't lost your sense of humor, have you?:smthumbup:


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> I go days without even thinking about what my wife did. And then I'm at work and all of a sudden something triggers it. I want to cry, and scream, and puke. I honestly didn't even feel like this when she confessed to me. How do you get through the day? How do you make it stop?


I am 2 weeks past dday #2 and yesterday was the first day where they were not horrible. Driving in the car is the worst, I play a lot of AC\DC and most time still end up calling my wife to combat that mind movies as I call them. There is no fix or cure that I know of, You just have to deal with them as they come. When at work, sometimes I will go outside and call my wife and talk through it with her believe it or not and that can really help. Sorry your going through this, I know it's hell. Hang in there time will help a lot, talking will help too. Take care.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

> Haven't lost your sense of humor, have you?


That's the one thing that makes me feel like my heart hasn't completely crumbled to bits... Late nights hanging out with her just talking and laughing. I've read other people feel the same way... when they are with their spouse they feel fine, but when they're not, they slip into the darkness.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I found a combination of things such as counseling with a therapist with experience on treating victims of infidelity and PTSD; listening to comedy all day long; and mind movie editing - I would provoke an image of my ex-wife and her OM having sex but dressed as clowns making all sort of clownish noises - let go quite a few farts due to the laughter.:rofl:


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> I am 2 weeks past dday #2 and yesterday was the first day where they were not horrible. Driving in the car is the worst, I play a lot of AC\DC and most time still end up calling my wife to combat that mind movies as I call them. There is no fix or cure that I know of, You just have to deal with them as they come. When at work, sometimes I will go outside and call my wife and talk through it with her believe it or not and that can really help. Sorry your going through this, I know it's hell. Hang in there time will help a lot, talking will help too. Take care.


So you talk to your wife about the cheating itself? My wife is in a rocky place emotionally. We've both started counseling and are trying to find a marriage counselor right now. There's a bit more to the story...

She said she wanted to leave. She packed her things in the car and told me she was leaving the monday after "dday". She still hasn't left, and I'm pretty sure its because I did a few things. First, I immediately told her I forgive her. I forgave her before she did it as a matter of fact because I took my vows seriously. In it for the long haul... know what I mean? Anyway, the second thing I did was I bought a book on saving your marriage and the dude who wrote it (Lee Baucom) says if she leaves, your chances of fixing the marriage exponentially decrease and offered suggestions on what to say, how to say it, and how to proceed delicately.

So, I really want to call her and talk, but I just can't right now. I've had access to every account she's ever had... and she's had mine, since we just know each others pw's, she agreed to stop going to clubs/bars without me, and a few other things which I demanded, so I know she intends to fix this. But she's not ready for talking openly about it when I'm sad. She told me she is destroyed from the guilt. She randomly (and I mean like super random "we're in a coffee shop and I'm like "what do you want" and her reply is "i'm sorry"") apologizes.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> That's the one thing that makes me feel like my heart hasn't completely crumbled to bits... Late nights hanging out with her just talking and laughing. I've read other people feel the same way... when they are with their spouse they feel fine, but when they're not, they slip into the darkness.


Yes. I have read that, too. 

During our initial attempt to reconcile. I felt good when he was right next to me and we could laugh and talk like we used to. 

However, whenever he was at work I would worry because he has a very free schedule and the majority of his extensive meetings with the OW took place during work hours or on weekends where he would claim to want to take his bicycle out for a spin in the park. 

In the past he would be back in an hour after a ride in the park and rarely showered. 

During his affair he would be gone for four hours when claiming to be bicycling and he would walk in the house and want to shower immediately, prior to hugging me or kissing me hello. 

That is likely because several times I picked up the scent of her perfume and he claimed it was new soap at the health club, after work. But he could not use the health club excuse on the weekends. 

So, I can relate to that and I think it is accurate. 

Obviously though no one can be together 24/7.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

morituri said:


> I found a combination of things such as counseling with a therapist with experience on treating victims of infidelity and PTSD; listening to comedy all day long; and mind movie editing - I would provoke an image of my ex-wife and her OM having sex but dressed as clowns making all sort of clownish noises - let go quite a few farts due to the laughter.:rofl:


Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think my mind is capable of control at this point. I'll have to resort to external means.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Yes. I have read that, too.
> 
> During our initial attempt to reconcile. I felt good when he was right next to me and we could laugh and talk like we used to.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your situation. That really sucks to suspect something like that. For me, I didn't even know. She just told me. Totally blindsided. I love her to death. Life hasn't always been easy, but we've been blessed with enough money, good health, 2 beautiful kids, I even got her her dream house this past Fall. We go on 1 or 2 dates a week, she goes out with her friends and hangs out, goes to fitness classes almost nightly (which she loves)... I just don't get how this happened. The first time was years ago (apparently, like I said I just know what she's told me). Things weren't the best then, but the more recent occurrence was a TOTAL shocker. Ok, they both were. Seriously. I would never even think about touching another woman. 

What is with people? Why did you marry me if you were just going to act like one of your stupid single friends behind my back?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You may have visions the rest of your life---later on they may be few and far between, but it just comes with the territory

Why did your wife need to go out to bars, w/out you---was that where she hooked up---was it a ONS, short PA, long PA---what are you dealing with

Do you have all the details---your imagination is filling in any info you don't know---that causes problems for you---and allows your sub--conscious to run wild

If you are R, what boundaries, are in place, and what is being done to make sure that what was done won't happen again----have you gotten the deep down core WHY this happened, and what is being done to fix the problem, that caused this


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

jnj express said:


> You may have visions the rest of your life---later on they may be few and far between, but it just comes with the territory


PTSD sears memories into your brain. "Triggers" bring forth not just the memories but all of the physical sensations and emotions associated with the experience. Everything I've read says that the most you can expect is for the flashbacks to get further and further and further apart. They may not lessen in intensity even though a lot of time goes by. 

There was a recent board member who was triggered by the visit of a man to his home, the man's interactions with his wife and family (all normal and not untoward) triggered the betrayed husband very powerfully and he reacted with near violence; this was four years after the original events. He says he is down to a couple of times a year, but the intensity is still there because the brain has saved the shocking experience with such great detail to be pulled up later.

It is a protective mechanism, your body is trying to teach itself what to avoid in the future. The problem is that the system overreacts and treats it like it's imminent physical harm (fight or flight) when what it really is is imminent _emotional_ harm. 

Although in some ways, it makes sense that our bodies can't tell the difference. Sometimes I wonder whether it is a good thing, or not, that the rational brain can override our "get away" instinct.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

jnj express said:


> You may have visions the rest of your life---later on they may be few and far between, but it just comes with the territory
> 
> Why did your wife need to go out to bars, w/out you---was that where she hooked up---was it a ONS, short PA, long PA---what are you dealing with
> 
> ...


I work friday and saturday nights, so that's why she goes out without me. I'm never "not invited" that's just how my life has been. It doesn't happen that often, and I use vacation sometimes to go. The first was a ONS with someone she went to high school with... Apparently he was "popular" back then and "he showed interest" during one of our low points. This was almost 5 years ago. The second was at a friends house after they came home from a bar. Her friend's BF was there with a bunch of friends and she gave one of them oral sex (something she hasn't done for me in at least a year). I have enough details... I don't want any more. I think that might be the problem. There are some boundaries in place. No more bars or clubs without me for starters... I don't know what caused this. Hoping marriage counseling will shed some light. Right now I just feel like such a chump.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

She confessed because you were getting tested for STDs, Why? STD check Ups? Why she choosed that time to confess? was she afraid that she may get caught if you tested positive?

You forgived her instantly, this is her second time. Actually do you know what you have forgived, did you got a full disclosure without TT?

First time you rug swept it and she faced no consequences so she strayed again, are you going to rug sweep her A again.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Here is a little bit I've gleaned after reading about many different people's experiences: serial cheating of the kind your wife engaged in is much, much more about her own problems with her self-worth than it is about the condition of the marriage.

Plenty of people are in marriages with problems and it doesn't occur to them to give a BJ to the closest person with a penis.

While it is fine and well for you to do what you can to improve as a husband and identify problems in the marriage, she will likely need intense individual counseling to sort out WHY ONSs and fooling around are her escape of choice.

Also if she's admitting to more than once, know that this may be the tip of the iceberg. Brace yourself for this. She is likely testing you to see what you can stand to hear. It's extremely rare (okay, it never happens) that a cheater just sits down and comes clean in one swoop. It brings on intensely unpleasant sensations of guilt to describe what they've done. They are going to avoid it at all costs on the theory that what you don't know won't hurt you.

I'm not saying to get the gory details. That does trigger visions that you can't put away. But you need to get a grip on the scope of the problems that she has with a counselor to figure out how fixable she is. Sad to say, some people don't want to be fixed no matter what they say. 

Remember: ACTIONS NOT WORDS are your guide from now on where she is concerned.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> She confessed because you were getting tested for STDs, Why? STD check Ups? Why she choosed that time to confess? was she afraid that she may get caught if you tested positive?
> 
> You forgived her instantly, this is her second time. Actually do you know what you have forgived, did you got a full disclosure without TT?
> 
> First time you rug swept it and she faced no consequences so she strayed again, are you going to rug sweep her A again.


Well she confessed BOTH times at the same time. There is no rug sweeping, however, I'm not sure how to handle it. I don't want her to leave. I know that. I am just trying to hang on for dear life until we start marriage counseling. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'm not expert, but I do know I love her and will always give her the benefit of the doubt.

As for the STD thing, I had burning pee misdiagnosed as a UTI, had to go back and that's when she confessed. She had read that certain diseases can stay dormant for years, so was worried about me.

On a side note, she had her first therapy session the day before. She said she was planning on telling me that day anyway, but felt it was pertinent info at the time.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Here is a little bit I've gleaned after reading about many different people's experiences: serial cheating of the kind your wife engaged in is much, much more about her own problems with her self-worth than it is about the condition of the marriage.
> 
> Plenty of people are in marriages with problems and it doesn't occur to them to give a BJ to the closest person with a penis.
> 
> ...


I know this. It started off as just the BJ, the the ONS came out. I can't wait for what's next.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> That's the one thing that makes me feel like my heart hasn't completely crumbled to bits... Late nights hanging out with her just talking and laughing. I've read other people feel the same way... when they are with their spouse they feel fine, but when they're not, they slip into the darkness.


Exactly right! Every day my husband goes to work is a trigger. Weekends are wonderful. I'm almost 4 months out and it seems like the anger continues to cycle. But overall it's better. I hope it improves for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> As for the STD thing, I had burning pee misdiagnosed as a UTI, had to go back and that's when she confessed. She had read that certain diseases can stay dormant for years, so was worried about me.


I don't know man, but if the events you are describing are the only ones would she be so concerned about STDs? Try and dig deeper. The kind of woman that gives out a BJ just like that... She probably has a longer track record. Just saying...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Iceberg.





Polygraph.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> I go days without even thinking about what my wife did. And then I'm at work and all of a sudden something triggers it. I want to cry, and scream, and puke. I honestly didn't even feel like this when she confessed to me. How do you get through the day? How do you make it stop?


You need specialist counselling.

Does your wife know how badly you are being affect by what she did?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey reason---let me ask you something---do either you or your wife have any understanding at all of the concept of mge, and parenthood

You are gonna do what you want here---and you have decided to R, with basically no consequences

Your so called wife and alleged mother---IS LIVING THE LIFE OF A SINGLE

She goes out clubbing and to bars on the weekends---she goes to a gym several nights a week---when does she play at being a mother and wife

Your wife more than likely runs with single friends-----I will tell you right now---her friends need to go---NC, with her friends---any friends, that would allow her to be with a strange guy, and give him oral, while knowing she has children at home, NEED TO BE DROPPED FROM HER LIFE

Your wife says she's sorry---do those words come anywhere near doing anything, considering she has destroyed you, possibly her kids, and wiped out the mge

Say what you will, it will never be the same

She wanted to leave---you should have let her go---where was she gonna go, how was she gonna exist, with little or no money---and why would she leave her own kids

It is obvious she compartmentalizes big time

You need to become harsh about all of this---but I fear you are way to late---you have just allowed her to move back into her life, as if nothing really happened.

Some very actionable consequences need to go in place, and I mean actionable, not words

No more single social life for her---she stays home with HER CHILDREN, on fri and sat---she goes to gym maybe twice a week, and no more, and in the day time

She drops all single friends, she does not have contact with males outside of your married social circle---AT ALL WHAT SO EVER

She cuts way back on her alcohol

If she wants to go out, on fri/sat---in the daytime to hobbies, sporting activities, to a movie---etc

She signs a POST --NUP

She doesn't like these boundaries, then whether you like it or not---she leaves, and you get a D

You are dealing here with a woman of no principles/scrupples, who messes with other men, giving no thought to the consequences to her family

Only counseling needed here is her to IC---and you need to back off on the mr nice--guy, and lovey--dovey.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey reason---let me ask you something---do either you or your wife have any understanding at all of the concept of mge, and parenthood
> 
> You are gonna do what you want here---and you have decided to R, with basically no consequences
> 
> ...



I know I've handled this wrong from the get go. That's a given. And we did throw down some major boundaries. As a matter of fact basically everything you said she agreed to. Minus the fitness classes but honestly her dad started doing it with her so I don't have much to worry about there. Here's a piece of my awkward puzzle that gets shakey and weird. I had what could borderline be considered an ea with her sister. It was really just her helping me with our kids for a few weeks but I enjoyed it way too much. I told my wife that I thought I was developing inappropriate feelings for her sister and that we needed to keep her away for a while. She was crushed and cheated on me soon after. Am I to blame? I'm not saying I'm perfect and people have different albeit terrible ways of dealing with **** in their lives. I guess I just accept the role I played and see it as a bad decision, not a pattern. I agree in the boundary idea, and despite our weird place right now she has not given me any grief about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey reason---let me ask you something---do either you or your wife have any understanding at all of the concept of mge, and parenthood
> 
> You are gonna do what you want here---and you have decided to R, with basically no consequences
> 
> ...




Also yeah she started counseling but stopped and said the counselor was more concerned with her finding her own way rather than helping her reconnect with me. She is looking for a new therapist and we are working on finding a good mc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

forthesakeofreason said:


> First, I immediately told her I forgive her. I forgave her before she did it as a matter of fact because I took my vows seriously.


You shouldn't knee-jerk forgive like this, did she even ask for forgiveness? 

You don't even know what all you are forgiving her for. You are going to hit the anger stage soon and you'll be thinking twice about forgiving when it hits you she's been disresepcting you and the marriage by screwing this guy behind your back. 

She broke the marriage, she now has to prove herself worthy of staying in it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, the more I hear, the worse it sounds. Your wife does not want to face herself. This is bad bad news.I know your wife type. You are just waiting for more betrayals and are in serious rug sweeping mode. i can assure that she will cheat again.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife took, yes an episode of cheating, but not equal to what she has done----and she has justified to herself, that she could have a revenge A

What does she do---depending on your state of mind, she gave a stranger oral sex----this could very well be a major problem for the mge---cuz everytime, you might normally want to touch/kiss her lips, you could very well trigger, from the repulsive knowledge that those lips, and her mouth took a strange man inside ---that would certainly make many an honest innocent spouse trigger----how do you deal with that knowledge alone---everytime you go to kiss her, and if you were to keep this mge, going, there has to be some physical activity, including kissing, but if you are repelled, and have thoughts of his "thing" in her mouth, and how those lips caressed it---you are gonna have problems

As to the last 5 years of your mge---it has all been a lie----every night she came home looked you in the eye, and said everything is good, she did it with the knowledge that an old BF, of hers had been inside of her, I E---she has lied,cheated by ommission, connived, decieved, and manipulated you---is that what a wife who deserves to be loved, DOES

How you decide to handle all of this is strictly up to you---100 diff. people can tell you a 100 diff. solutions---but only you live in your shoes---and only you have to live with this wife, who thinks nothing of having sex with other men, to justify, what she percieves as wrongs

You have to live with the misery----The question for you to answer now--is ---what IS SHE doing to make this all right---saying I'm sorry is utter meaningless words---what actions is she taking---cuz right now the actions she has taken, are all to give herself up to other men, even tho she knows she has children who depend on her, and a H., who loves her---she doesn't seem to worried about it---and it looks like she has moved right back into her comfortable life style, even as you suffer with pain, hurt, visions, sleeplessness, and myriad other things----can you really/honestly/truly tell me you love her---and what kind of a love could that even be?????

One last thing what does she do with her time now, how does she spend her days, and who does she now associate with----is she spending most of her time with her H., and kids like she should have been all along??????


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Your wife took, yes an episode of cheating, but not equal to what she has done----and she has justified to herself, that she could have a revenge A
> 
> What does she do---depending on your state of mind, she gave a stranger oral sex----this could very well be a major problem for the mge---cuz everytime, you might normally want to touch/kiss her lips, you could very well trigger, from the repulsive knowledge that those lips, and her mouth took a strange man inside ---that would certainly make many an honest innocent spouse trigger----how do you deal with that knowledge alone---everytime you go to kiss her, and if you were to keep this mge, going, there has to be some physical activity, including kissing, but if you are repelled, and have thoughts of his "thing" in her mouth, and how those lips caressed it---you are gonna have problems
> 
> ...


Well right now we have days that are "normal" and days that suck complete ass. Today is one of those days. Her typical day is basically waking up around 6 with our youngest, she lays on our dock and tans while the kids swim. She'll bring them in around noon for lunch, and she gives them "quiet time" after lunch where they lay down and watch a movie or take a nap. She generally naps for an hour during this time. I get home around 230 right after quiet time and we just hang out. We might go back down to the lake or take the whole family to a park, go hiking, or some other outdoor activity. That's about it. 2 Days during the week, the kids go to a "day care" type of summer program to play with other kids from 9 - 12, and this is where she goes to her fitness classes. 

I guess I wasn't super clear on the bar thing... She does that MAYBE once a month... or 2 months. Its not often and its never just for the sake of going out. Its always some sort of occasion. Like a birthday, or whatever.

And don't get me wrong, she's a great mom, and honestly the best wife you could imagine besides these atrocities on our marriage. She's an amazing cook, she cleans (we also have a cleaning lady because honestly our kids make our house a disaster. We just pick up, she mops and stuff), and she is generally engaged in our family, probably more than me since I work and she doesn't. Not to mention she is smoking hot.

Part of our deal after "dday" was she would not associate with her friend that she was with the night it happened. She has not, and I'm sure she has no reason to at this point. She hasn't seen the guy from a while ago. I know he does not live near us anymore. She also agreed to a phone tracker, so I can just see where she is at any point. I just look, and call her to verify that her phone is with her.

She has told me point blank that she's not in love me anymore. I took this with a grain of salt because she is one of those people that says things more for the reaction than actually meaning it. She's stood by it for a few weeks now though, and I told her that there is no point in moving this forward if she is not in love me.

I told her I was moving out Saturday and she has until then to decide if what she is feeling is accurate. I feel if she is in love, we can fix this. If not, well, I guess there's no point to it. 

It should also be noted that our sex life hasn't really suffered. After reading other people's stories I just decided that I wasn't going to let anything get in the way of something that I find to be essential to our marriage. We've always had a great sex life... literally at least once a day and on many occasions much more than that. I'm pretty sure she is not out cheating like crazy. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn of more times its happened (given what people have said about the cheater MO), but I would be able to tell you "yeah, it probably happened this night, that night, that night, etc." Because like I said, we're pretty tight nit, she's always with our kids, I always know who she's with, and MOST of her friends are married as well. 

Sorry if this is all blending together. That's why I started this thread with few lines. This would have been a novel and a half.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Also, thank you everyone for responding. I know this is a sour subject for just about everyone who replied... probably brings back really crappy memories, so thank you.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Ok, the more I hear, the worse it sounds. Your wife does not want to face herself. This is bad bad news.I know your wife type. You are just waiting for more betrayals and are in serious rug sweeping mode. i can assure that she will cheat again.


So what do I do? Leave? Counseling? Try and become as naive and ignorant as possible and live a blissful life?

I have no action plan. I just do what I do, you know? Its not like there's a manual on my specific model of wife. Besides, its not the cheating I really care about. I know I'll get past those feelings. Its only a been a few weeks and the ****tiness is few and far between. It hurts, but the thing that hurts more is the "why." Can we figure out the why and get past it? ::::sigh:::: Maybe not. I don't know.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

right now---just one thought---and heed it

YOU DO NOT, LET ME SAY AGAIN---DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME---you would be nailed in a divorce action, for abandonment----more later---but if anyone leaves its her


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation. That really sucks to suspect something like that. For me, I didn't even know. She just told me. Totally blindsided. I love her to death. Life hasn't always been easy, but we've been blessed with enough money, good health, 2 beautiful kids, I even got her her dream house this past Fall. We go on 1 or 2 dates a week, she goes out with her friends and hangs out, goes to fitness classes almost nightly (which she loves)... I just don't get how this happened. The first time was years ago (apparently, like I said I just know what she's told me). Things weren't the best then, but the more recent occurrence was a TOTAL shocker. Ok, they both were. Seriously. I would never even think about touching another woman.
> 
> What is with people? Why did you marry me if you were just going to act like one of your stupid single friends behind my back?


Twice, eh? She is , definitely, not who you think she is.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Why doesn't she have a job? You may be hosed, royally, due to this.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

jnj express said:


> right now---just one thought---and heed it
> 
> YOU DO NOT, LET ME SAY AGAIN---DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME---you would be nailed in a divorce action, for abandonment----more later---but if anyone leaves its her


Thank you. I did not know this. Any other pertinent info that will save me a lot of grief? Also, so what is the proper way to do it? Legally separate?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Why doesn't she have a job? You may be hosed, royally, due to this.


hosed how? Like I'd have to pay out the ass in divorce court?

She doesn't have a job because back when our second child was born, she didn't get maternity leave, so she had to quit. She went back to work later, but the job she got sucked and she hated every minute of it. She was always sad that she was spending all this time with douche bags while someone else raised our kids. I told her to quit and stay home permanently if that's what she wanted. Eventually she did and she hasn't looked back.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> hosed how? Like I'd have to pay out the ass in divorce court?
> 
> She doesn't have a job because back when our second child was born, she didn't get maternity leave, so she had to quit. She went back to work later, but the job she got sucked and she hated every minute of it. She was always sad that she was spending all this time with douche bags while someone else raised our kids. I told her to quit and stay home permanently if that's what she wanted. Eventually she did and she hasn't looked back.


Exactly, in court you may get hosed.

Ever ask yourself if, perhaps, other people go to jobs that they detest, yet they do it for the family $$. Think I can quit trying these stupid PI cases because I am sick of it and would like to have a better tan?
Ever ask yourself why , just because you have a y chromosome, you get the privelige of working, vs tanning and napping?
The entitlement mentality demonstrated by your wife's lifestyle is a huge factor in the cheating.
You have yourself a serial cheating trophy wife who cares not if you work while she plays. I had one two. Right out of a Victoria's Secret catalogue. She is a parasitic, mindless, sociopath(my XW, that is, Your mileage may vary. But, with two affairs you know of, tanning, quitting work etc, I doubt it.)
You sound like a good guy who bought into all this BS about chivalry, stay at home moms and the drivel about how hard it is(raised two boys by myself,and it was a breeze vs work).
Your wife , is playing you. You are too nice a guy and do not deserve that crap.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> hosed how? Like I'd have to pay out the ass in divorce court?


Exactly.

File on her ass. DNA the kids. You don't leave, either.

Hot women are like city buses; there will be another one along in 5 minutes. And there's always the possibility your next woman will have integrity.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

1st move her out of the bedroom, into a small room in the house, and move all her clothes, sundries, everything into that room---just do it, and tell her this is where she lives from now on.

She has a right to be in the marital home, just as you do, but you don't have to make life comfortable for her, as it is now---she cheated on you, and she sleeps in, tans herself, runs around and does nothing all day---do not tell me she takes care of the house and cooks, I would hope so, cuz she sure has no other responsibilities!!!!!

Take all marital money, put it in an acct with your name ONLY on it---and cancel all her credit cards

Tell her she wants money, to go to work----your working crappy hours, to feed your family, while she runs around cheating, cuz she percieves, she is hurt---gimme a break

Her sun tanning days, going to the gym days are over

You tell her get a job, or you will D. her immediately---also tell her from this day forward she is responsible for half of every single debt/bill your family incurs

That includes, mtg. car, gas for car, food, utilities, all insurances, and anything else you deal with---tell her if she doesn't get a job, you will also remove her from your medical insurance

What you will be doing is giving her a dose of reality, of what life will be like if you D. her

You gotta stop being nice to her---she is narrow minded, and selfish, she needs to get her butt kicked, and she definitely needs to become SELFLESS

Just tell her enuff, is enuff---she wants to cheat, now she gets to pay the piper---lets see how tuff she is after you throw reality at her

come on---give me a break---she has it all, and she still cheats----ENUFF IS ENUFF


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

jnj, that is somegreat advice. This woman sounds like a parasitic monster, a tan one.
Don;t get me started on this tanning deal.My Xw, that idiot, was a tanning freak. She looked ghoulish. Hope she prunes out.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

> Here's a piece of my awkward puzzle that gets shakey and weird. *I had what could borderline be considered an ea with her sister.* It was really just her helping me with our kids for a few weeks but I enjoyed it way too much. *I told my wife that I thought I was developing inappropriate feelings for her sister* and that we needed to keep her away for a while. *She was crushed and cheated on me soon after*. Am I to blame?


A "semi" EA? Let's call a spade a spade. I think this is big and somehow got buried in your thread. You were becoming infatuated with her sister.

That would be a pretty shocking thing to hear and I could see it causing me to emotionally distance myself from my husband if he said that to me. (Cheating isn't justified for something like that, and I wouldn't do it, but I could see falling out of love and losing trust.)

I will tell you that our terrific MC would say you handled it exactly right (told your wife you needed to get away from someone in order to protect the marriage). The problem is WHO this involved, someone who is part of the family, and she (your wife) is the one forced to avoid her own sister in order to stay married to you.




forthesakeofreason said:


> So what do I do? Leave? Counseling? Try and become as naive and ignorant as possible and live a blissful life?
> 
> I have no action plan. I just do what I do, you know?


Here is an action plan:

1. BOOK THAT GOOD PRO-MARRIAGE COUNSELOR TRAINED TO UNDERSTAND INFIDELITY. (A good litmus test is whether they're familiar with the work of Shirley Glass, a leading infidelity researcher.)

2. Buy the books Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters by Dr. Harley, and The 5 Love Languages.

3. Read these books and show them to your wife and tell her you hope she'll read them too. Tell her you're reading Not Just Friends because you've realized that how deeply YOU have damaged the marriage with the sister stuff.

4. Read the remorseful spouse literature on this forum--how a remorseful spouse acts to restore the loyal spouse's trust. Look through it to see what you can say and do to tell her that you love HER and not her sister. See if you missed any steps in that process of making that issue up to her.

5. Then tell her you love her very much and want to work on the marriage. But that while you will own up to damaging the marrige by 50% (or whatever amount you deem appropriate, but not 100% obviously), each of you is *separately responsible *for your issues with marital boundaries (you for the EA and for deeply wounding her, her for seeking out these men). You ARE NOT responsible for her cheating just as she is not responsible for your emotional affair. Those were CHOICES that you each made and now they've severely damaged your mutual trust.

6. If you can, get her to at least take the quick 5 Love Languages quiz on that website. It is a way to quickly understand how your spouse perceives love is being expressed. It isn't always obvious because people have their own preferences. Tell her yours too. (His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters also have their longer questionnaires--but she may not be up to filling those out--but you can always ask.)


She sounds so far out the door that this is nothing but a last ditch effort.


His Needs / Her Needs is based on the theory that romantic love in the marriage must be revived in order to save it. That sounds like your precise problem.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

iheartlife said it better than I'd ever could.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

WTF? Her sister? Christ, that is messed up.

No excuse for her cheating, but you need to take a look at yourself, too. How the hell did this happen?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> WTF? Her sister? Christ, that is messed up.
> 
> No excuse for her cheating, but you need to take a look at yourself, too. How the hell did this happen?


My therapist says I have insecurity issues and latch on to people who show interest. I'm working on this. Anyway I say this was not really an emotional affair because nothing changed. I wasn't spending any more time with her or constantly texting/calling her. I just had these inappropriate feelings and immediately did something about it. I told my wife and we did something about it together. I'm a firm believer that you can't help how you feel... But you do control what you do with those feelings. It crushed my wife for sure but I thought we had this super honest relationship where we told each other everything and worked through it... No matter what. Of course it turns out I was completely wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I think the issue wasn't so much honesty about the EA as it was about her sister. What is she supposed to do with that? Never have the families get together again? Never allow you to speak to her sister, etc? That is what would be required but it involves her cutting off her sister at least a majority of the ways. So she has to choose. This isn't a random person--and that would be bad enough.

It never justifies cheating. It does go a long way toward explaining her huge emotional detachment from you.

You also make this sound like something you have done before or could do again per what your therapist said. Have you had any other boundary issues before while dating or married to your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I also posted some suggestions on the previous page. Any chance you will be going to marriage counseling, or is that off the table now?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I also posted some suggestions on the previous page. Any chance you will be going to marriage counseling, or is that off the table now?


Yeah I had an ea situation several years ago. I realized it was a pattern the second time and that's when I started counseling. It lasted about a month and it caused a pretty big rift. This was pre marriage and I was young and stupid(re) than I am now for sure. You have to understand that I'm not blaming her for what happened. I accept my role in this completely. That's partly why I haven't reacted very harshly. Doesn't mean I'm not hurt.

She has agreed to counseling. She did a long time ago, and she maintained that she wants to. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Yeah I had an ea situation several years ago. I realized it was a pattern the second time and that's when I started counseling. It lasted about a month and it caused a pretty big rift. This was pre marriage and I was young and stupid(re) than I am now for sure. You have to understand that I'm not blaming her for what happened. I accept my role in this completely. That's partly why I haven't reacted very harshly. Doesn't mean I'm not hurt.
> 
> She has agreed to counseling. She did a long time ago, and she maintained that she wants to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't worry, I think revenge cheating is an extremely immature response. (Hey, I think I'll catch an STD because my H cheated!)

Please get the book Not Just Friends and get her to read it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Don't worry, I think revenge cheating is an extremely immature response. (Hey, I think I'll catch an STD because my H cheated!)
> 
> Please get the book Not Just Friends and get her to read it too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will look into it. Thank you. I don't think it was revenge cheating. I think it was opportunistic "detached emotionally from my husband " cheating. She's not really a vengeful person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> I will look into it. Thank you. I don't think it was revenge cheating. I think it was opportunistic "detached emotionally from my husband " cheating. She's not really a vengeful person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I hope you also look at the books I posted on the previous page--you are at a point where your marriage is perhaps just been declared dead and you have one last chance to revive it via CPR. Not even on life support now. There is a way to bring romantic feelings back, but you are going to have to grab that chance with both hands.

If she is willing to go to counseling, that is a big point in your favor.

Here is the thing: in general, the advice in your situation would be that your wife has to show remorse and beg for the marriage. This is true even if you did damage the marriage in some way. But then there are times where the loyal spouse really did a major blow to the marriage...you are there, I was there. In those cases it's my opinion that you have a more 'balanced' situation. You weren't exactly someone with good boundaries, and apparently she isn't either. 

Sometimes, and this is just my theory, you have a situation where both spouses did bad things. The next issue is whether you can both look beyond that and agree to let bygones be bygones and work on the marriage as a team.

You are in the same position I was: you may have done some things that killed the romantic love your spouse had for you. You are NOT responsible for their immature way of handling it. Still, in my opinion, you need to show your spouse that you are going to take serious major steps to make sure your old marriage is DEAD and the new one will be far, far better and worth fighting for.

To that end (for the two of you):
Not Just Friends
His Needs / Her Needs
Love Busters
5 Love Languages

FOR YOU ALONE:
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Married Man Sex Life

These last two are insurance against your being a doormat and letting her use you--i.e., you feel guilty for your EA(s), and so she gets to treat you like sh*t for the rest of your life. That is NOT a recipe for a happy marriage. She made some seriously poor choices and YOU should not take the blame for that.

What would have been a mature reaction to emotional detachment? Request for counseling. Separation. Divorce. 1,000s of people do it every year without the hint of an OM or OW on the horizon.

So you have a tricky narrow bridge to cross. You want to blame yourself for her affairs. She wants to blame you for HER affairs as well as your EAs. Somehow you need to reach a point where she OWNS her cheating and is willing to admit it was stupid. You need to get to a point where she can trust that you won't dive for the escape of an emotional affair.

Again, look at the remorseful spouse to-dos. You need to meet them every bit as much for her as she needs to meet them for you. The fact that yours wasn't physical and hers was is truly immaterial in the trust dept. Some people have issues with PAs and those are dealbreakers for THEM but ignore them if that isn't true for you. (If it is true for you, then you need to let her go.)


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Some people have issues with PAs and those are dealbreakers for THEM but ignore them if that isn't true for you. (If it is true for you, then you need to let her go.)


Thanks for the advice. For me, physical intimacy with another person WAS a deal breaker... until I had to deal with it. I found out that I love her more than enough to get past it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

morituri said:


> I found a combination of things such as counseling with a therapist with experience on treating victims of infidelity and PTSD; listening to comedy all day long; and mind movie editing - I would provoke an image of my ex-wife and her OM having sex but dressed as clowns making all sort of clownish noises - let go quite a few farts due to the laughter.:rofl:


Hey Mori,

Remind me not to get in the car with you in case you ever trigger!!!



HM64


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Thanks for the advice. For me, physical intimacy with another person WAS a deal breaker... until I had to deal with it. I found out that I love her more than enough to get past it.


FTSOR,

I think what you said above is a profound statement. You love her so you want to fight for your marriage.

That is great.

And your feelings regarding your SIL went too far but you were honest with your W and blam she has really blown up your marriage. And this is not the 1st time either.

You guys both have issues. The key is if you still care enough for each other to get professional help and work through your marriage issues.

Now, your wife has not paid the price for any of her cheating. I really think no matter what you guys do for R you still need to take control of the finances, enforce boundaries/conditions on her that she agrees to.

When a spouse says she no longer is in love with you well my friend this is more than just a BJ???? It is quite possible she has detached from the marriage because she is intimate with someone else.

It is good she came clean in the hospital but I think you should look a little deeper into her activities and find out what she is really up to. You need to protect yourself and your assets. You need her to feel what life is like without you in it.

And do not move out of your house. If you love her and want to R then you stay. If she is still pressing for S then you pack a bag for her and show her the door and say this *"I love you but have lost all respect for you. I am not a perfect man but have not nor would I ever cheat on you. I am responsible for 50% of the issues in our marriage like you are but you are responsible for 100% of the cheating. I will not be your 2nd choice in life nor will I live in a loveless marriage. If you want to work on our marriage stay. If you cannot please go and I will send you the divorce papers before you really give me an STD!".*

If I were you I would see an attorney so you know your rights. If you find out that she is still cheating on you then act to protect yourself and your children.

By the way how old are you and your wife?

HM64


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> By the way how old are you and your wife?


Thanks for the advice. We are both 27. Kids are 4 and 6.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My wife had her 1st A around your guys age (13 yrs ago). It wasn't addressed properly and she continued 20 more times. My point is the both of you need to face this head on and open this can of worms wide open. Again another consequences your wife must face is talking to you about it.

There is a life style change that the both of you will need to look at that will help you get thru. I think as long as there is sex then there is hope. I mean she may not love you *now* but after the crap you guys just went thru, the both of you are not in the best of places right now.

So give it time. 2-1/2 years ago, when I was going thru the same sh!t as you I didn't think we would be at such a better place in our life, but we are.

Now that the kids are 18 and 22 we have a completely different life style, that with some better time managment we just are reconnecting on such a healthier level.

Make no mistake R is just as hard as D so I hope your wife turns a corner and sees there is so much more the both of you will have in 10 - 12 years. That will put the kids at driving age a more independence, then sex will be even more then it is now, then time spent together will be better and the strees of a young family will be lifted.

I hope your chick could see the future, it would be worth it to her to make the effort in the M.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Since your wife says she is not in love with you anymore, you need to get Married Man Sex Life as soon as possible. I think you can download it from amazon. BTW it is not a sex manual though you can't tell that from the title. It is a relationship manual and has a MAP plan to make your wife fall back in love with you. Like iheartlife said you also need No More Mr Nice Guy. These two books are for you alone. The other great books she mentioned need to be read by you both.

Has she told you she wanted a divorce. I'm confused because she has agreed to the things she needs to do yet says she doesn't love you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There are also two blogs. The reason these are recommended so much is they work.


Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.



No More Mr. Nice Guy


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Please listen to Chap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> I think as long as there is sex then there is hope. I mean she may not love you *now* but after the crap you guys just went thru, the both of you are not in the best of places right now.


Curious why you think this will help. We had sex today. A bunch of people were hanging out at our house, and we were sitting on the dock watching the kids swim. She put her hand on my leg and said "meet me upstairs."

I'm not grossed out with her. Just in my head. Mentally I could bone her every day.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Has she told you she wanted a divorce. I'm confused because she has agreed to the things she needs to do yet says she doesn't love you.


You and me both! I know that she "loves" me, she doesn't doesn't feel that spark anymore. Like in _Not Just Friends_ her love bank has dropped significantly. Currently trying to fill it up...

I honestly don't know why she wants to leave me, but still agreed to make concessions. I feel like I haven't made ANY really though. She hasn't demanded anything from my EA situation before, and I feel as though that's something we'll be working through in counseling. I just can't see how she's over it without really dealing with it on any level.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hang on, how did the EA with her sister start?

Did she or you make the running? 

Did your wife set up the situations so you and her sister would be thrown together? Or not?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Hang on, how did the EA with her sister start?
> 
> Did she or you make the running?
> 
> Did your wife set up the situations so you and her sister would be thrown together? Or not?


We've always been in situations together. Nothing really changed except how I felt. Does that even make sense? Like I would just naturally spend time with her because she is obviously our kids aunt and wanted to see them. We had a few inappropriate conversations and then that was what really made me realize I needed to fix it.

I guess there were some weird situations. I remember this one time the 3 of us and our kids were at the beach and she made this comment to her sister as she was tanning in a bikini... "I've got sand all over my back and legs. Can you brush it off for me?"

My wife goes "you've got this." I was like "yeah ok, let me just take care of the that for you..." I think there were a bunch of these random half flirty situations that happened in an "ok" situation so it wasn't weird.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

It doesn't sound like it was really an EA. Reason had a strong attraction to the sister, recognized it for what it was and nipped it in the bud. He probably should have been mature enough to just stifle it and keep it to himself, but he did the next best thing. Now WW is using that brief spell of attraction as an equalizer to her full up adultery. Nope, ain't the same thing.

Now, Reason, what are you doing to maintain surveillance?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

FTSOR

You guys both need professional counselling and it sounds like you are getting it.

Your wife cheated on you and this is not the 1st time.

She needs to figure out why she did it? And she needs to figure out why she feels her love cup is empty for you right now.

I still do not think you know the whole story yet but do not let her walk out on you.

That is what cowards do!!!

Do not let her take the easy road and walk out. That is bull crap.

Great you forgive her and you can still bone her but you need to figure out if you can truly forgive her and that is hard to do if she is not willing to do the hard work and figure out why she feels her love cup is empty.

By the way, has anyone told you that cheaters lie.

I think it is good that you told her you forgive her. Now get her into IC and MC to figure out if you two guys can R and fix your marriage.

Your wife sounds like she wanted to run away. I give you credit for getting her to stay and the fact you can still make love to her or bone her as you say.

Time is on your side. Do not let her get away with cheating again or you are going to have the same problem on your hands in a few months.

HM64


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> There are also two blogs. The reason these are recommended so much is they work.
> 
> 
> Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.
> ...


They absolutely do work.

Is your wife still bent on leaving, or has that gone by the board?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> It doesn't sound like it was really an EA. Reason had a strong attraction to the sister, recognized it for what it was and nipped it in the bud. He probably should have been mature enough to just stifle it and keep it to himself, but he did the next best thing. Now WW is using that brief spell of attraction as an equalizer to her full up adultery. Nope, ain't the same thing.
> 
> Now, Reason, what are you doing to maintain surveillance?


I would disagree. It lasted longer in my head than it should have for sure. I'll own up to that. I don't even k ow if she cheated to get me back as much as she just doesn't really give a **** about us anymore. Like it was enough to check her out emotionally. Thats not fact, just how I perceive the situation. As for "surveillance"... I mean I have all her passwords, her iPhone is on my find my iPhone app so I know where she is... She's been pretty open. I don't know she's brought up that I'm invading her privacy but still willingly lets me do what I want. Texts, phone records, Facebook, email, etc. I really don't think she's engaged in anything at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She knows your methods right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, you mentioned that you were attracted to her sister, and your wife used that as an excuse to have an affair?

Wow. That's so cold from her. She figured: Well, hubby can't complain, because he fancies my sister!"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Reason,

You got a keylogger installed? Cell phone spy on her phone? VAR in car? You can have lots of different hotmail accounts, you know. Burner phones. ad nauseum.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Reason,
> 
> You got a keylogger installed? Cell phone spy on her phone? VAR in car? You can have lots of different hotmail accounts, you know. Burner phones. ad nauseum.


Here is the thing:
She has admitted to cheating
She is emotionally distant

Setting aside your EA(s) for the moment, you must understand that cheaters don't volunteer any more than they have to. This is called trickle truth. It is painful for them to admit anything to you. They will rationalize til the cows come home not telling you something. I know because of my own situation, continuing to discover old emails with bits of information of my husband's affair. And read threads, you will start to see the pattern where an ONS turns out to be a multi-encounter affair.

That isn't to say your wife is lying. But PLEASE do not take her word for this and just assume she isn't cheating. There are a few simple steps you can take to verify.

There are so many other threads where the 'cheating' is over but the cheater remains distant. 9 times out of ten they had just mixed it up, taken it underground. You can buy a burner phone at every corner drugstore. 

You want to save your marriage. If you look at my posts you know I'm pro-reconciliation. Verification is consistent with fighting for and saving the marriage. You cannot fix a marriage with 3 people in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Exactly my point. Monitoring can't stop just because she was caught. If she's still acting like a WW, she probably is still a WW.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Exactly my point. Monitoring can't stop just because she was caught. If she's still acting like a WW, she probably is still a WW.


Well she has no job, so all the money funnels through me one way or another. We switch cars constantly (no possibility of her hiding anything, for example), she is not computer illiterate... but there is no way she could hide anything from me. The only thing I haven't really done is go through her phone, but I can see online when she is texting and what numbers, and I know all of them. I will randomly check where she is online just to verify her story. She's almost always has the kids though.

I'm not sure it matters anyway. She told me she's going to leave, and I think she will eventually. I just can't see how someone could go on "pretending," like everything is normal.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She sure sounds like she has a boyfriend. Have you checked out the numbers she calls? The names listed on her phone doesn't mean anything.

If you haven't found a burner phone doesn't mean she doesn't have one. Lostcpa (sp) found one ina box in the basement. His wife was banging the neighbor in the basement after he went to sleep.

BTW what is your neighbor situation?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check out Paulination's threads. His wife sounds like your's.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

FTSOR

your wife just sounds so immature in addition to being a cheater.

Maybe you should have married her sister???

And i am not joking.

Are you going to have the sit down dragem out Q&A with her about your marriage before she decides to just up and walk again?

If I was you i would be pro active with her and please read NMMNG soon.

HM64


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Look, women don't need a cell phone to cheat. Most people didn't even have a cell phone 15 years ago. There were a lot of affairs going on. My wife is completely computer illiterate, as was my XGF (we didn't even have computers back then). If I was going to have an affair, I'd keep it off the net, completely.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> FTSOR
> 
> your wife just sounds so immature in addition to being a cheater.
> 
> ...


LOL oh man. That's funny... But yes, we've had some serious "Q&A sessions" and I have found that as long as I ask the right questions, I get the hard answers. She volunteered the most recent episode in the ER, but she only told me about the other one because I grilled it out of her. I have been continuously asking questions about us and what she's been up to for weeks. I don't entirely believe every word she says, but not one of you here expects me to, and neither does she. I'm expecting the worst of it to come out in counseling, though I really hope that she chooses to volunteer anything she's hiding on her own, so we can move past it.

I don't know if you saw the part about me doing this once before many years ago. But I did have an EA with a girl at work. I'm a serial offender, but realize it, feel bad about it and am seeking help with my insecurity issues. She is doing the same. I can accept that I deserve what I get in this life. I think my ultimate goal is to have her fall back in love with me, not expose her as a cheater and make her stop. I don't know man, I'm just super confused, hurt, happy, sad, mad, grossed out, anxious, and living day to day.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ER? Is your wife a nurse?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

chapparal said:


> She sure sounds like she has a boyfriend. Have you checked out the numbers she calls? The names listed on her phone doesn't mean anything.
> 
> If you haven't found a burner phone doesn't mean she doesn't have one. Lostcpa (sp) found one ina box in the basement. His wife was banging the neighbor in the basement after he went to sleep.
> 
> BTW what is your neighbor situation?


I seriously doubt she has a "burner phone"... we are slobs, our house and cars are in total kid chaos 100% of the time. She can't even find her phone half the time let alone a secret one. Our neighbors are old and homosexual.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> LOL oh man. That's funny... But yes, we've had some serious "Q&A sessions" and I have found that as long as I ask the right questions, I get the hard answers. She volunteered the most recent episode in the ER, but she only told me about the other one because I grilled it out of her. I have been continuously asking questions about us and what she's been up to for weeks. I don't entirely believe every word she says, but not one of you here expects me to, and neither does she. I'm expecting the worst of it to come out in counseling, though I really hope that she chooses to volunteer anything she's hiding on her own, so we can move past it.
> 
> I don't know if you saw the part about me doing this once before many years ago. But I did have an EA with a girl at work. I'm a serial offender, but realize it, feel bad about it and am seeking help with my insecurity issues. She is doing the same. I can accept that I deserve what I get in this life. I think my ultimate goal is to have her fall back in love with me, not expose her as a cheater and make her stop. I don't know man, I'm just super confused, hurt, happy, sad, mad, grossed out, anxious, and living day to day.


I actually like your plan. And I did understand about your previous EA.

But your wife has ttaken infidelity to a physical level. And since she admitted it to you in the ER her affair sex was likely unprotected.

So now she is putting her health and your health at risk. Not cool. She could also get pregnant by posom.

So also not cool.

You need to bring this to her attention. 

Again I like your plan about her falling back in love again with you but for some reason I do not think you have all the story.

And you guys gotta stop cheating on each other. Or your marriage is domed and so is your family.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> I actually like your plan. And I did understand about your previous EA.
> 
> But your wife has ttaken infidelity to a physical level. And since she admitted it to you in the ER her affair sex was likely unprotected.


Her story is that the sex was 5 years ago. She was worried because after some research, we found out that both chlamydia and herpes can live in your mouth, and for several years. She admitted the after hours BJ thinking that would have been the cause. You can also get HSV1 (which is cold sores), which she has had since before I met her, so that was a possibility. But it could have been HSV2. She claims the sex was was protected. At this point I've had sex with her probably at least 1500 times since then. Christ, I probably ****ed her the next day. I don't know. 



happyman64 said:


> So now she is putting her health and your health at risk. Not cool. She could also get pregnant by posom.
> 
> So also not cool.
> 
> ...


So right. I don't think I have all the story either. I barely care. I agree though, we just need to stop cheating. I honestly didn't think I was cheating until I found this site. I knew it was ****ty of me, but I thought penis in vagina = cheating (and obviously other variations of that). So wrong. I guess if she said she was in love with someone else, but hadn't had a PA, I would be more devastated. At least with the ONS thing, there are things you can do to recover. If she was in love with someone else, I'd be helpless, just praying to god every day that she would love me again.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

So make a plan to get her to fall in love with you again!!

What have you got to lose!!!

You actually have a number of experts on this site that are in the process of getting their spouse's to fall back in love with them from both sides of the coin.

Throw a few ideas out on how you want to go about it and a few of us can spread the word so you can get their input if you want it.

I do think you need to make it clear to your wife what your plan is to get her on board but let's see what a few others say.

Again, you stated a goal and I think that is great that you know what you want.

*Just Do It!!!*

HM64


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> So make a plan to get her to fall in love with you again!!
> 
> What have you got to lose!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks man. I guess I have a crappy plan right now. It is basically do everything normal day to day, but step up our extra curricular activities in a way that will remind her of when we met. I brought her hiking up this trail we went up on our 3rd date... I've been bringing her flowers and sending her goofy/cute text messages while I'm at work. I'm basically "courting" her again. 

The thing that really sucks is that when I first met her, I was in a semi famous band, so not only would she come to shows with me a few times a week, but when we went out, I would get free meals, sign autographs, and generally be known to people, so it was a lot easier winning her heart back then, cause I was just waaaaay ****in cooler. Now I'm just a douche bag working man.

Anyway, suggestions are MORE than welcome, cause frankly I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I will spread the word and let's see what others think.

And recourting her is not a bad idea. And things could be worse.

She could be asking for an open marriage and not being intimate with you at all.

Is she going to IC at all for her wayward ways? Did she ever go to IC?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Get her to take the 5 Love Languages quiz, it is short, you want her to perceive your efforts as love, the is best accomplished in the ways she prefers. It's funny, our excellent MC just suggested to my H that it is time to court me (his long term EA ended 4.5 mos ago; we have spent 4 counseling sessions of 1.5 hrs each just getting past his EA).

I wonder what she is going to say at your first counseling session. I would press for full disclosure there with the counselor looking on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maximus (Dec 4, 2011)

Go read No More Mr. Nice Guy. It explains the susceptibility to emotional issues with women in a well researched way. I see similarities with you, and I was surprised at the burden of guilt just reading that lifted from me. I stumbled across a PDF of it. 

As has been mentioned, her knowledge of the sister EA, and similar EA(s), hurt her very deeply. Emotionally distancing herself from you helped her deal with that hurt. Not sure what the distance between you two has been like and is--especially from her perspective. Unless I missed something your wife never hit the proverbial rock bottom since she decided an affair was something she was comfortable doing in your marriage. If so then there is a good chance she is still having an affair, and has yet to come out of the fog.

From what you have written I think your wife, out of the fog, wants you to be her man. I only offer that because I think I was in a similar situation. She was responsible for the affair, but I had to work on me...and own up to being a better man. Not easy but my, and our life, are worlds better than on d-day 6 mos ago., and even more so than a year ago when I first learned something was up.

And hopefully you slap her on the derrière at some point during all that boning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Use the MAP plan in Married Man Sex Life. Right now all you are doing is acting more beta. A plan that is guaranteed to make her throw up with disgust.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Well she has no job, so all the money funnels through me one way or another. We switch cars constantly (no possibility of her hiding anything, for example), she is not computer illiterate... but there is no way she could hide anything from me. The only thing I haven't really done is go through her phone, but I can see online when she is texting and what numbers, and I know all of them. I will randomly check where she is online just to verify her story. She's almost always has the kids though.
> 
> I'm not sure it matters anyway. She told me she's going to leave, and I think she will eventually. I just can't see how someone could go on "pretending," like everything is normal.


her phone has a data plan and your house has wifi, right?


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## CJ83 (Jun 7, 2012)

morituri said:


> I found a combination of things such as counseling with a therapist with experience on treating victims of infidelity and PTSD; listening to comedy all day long; and mind movie editing - I would provoke an image of my ex-wife and her OM having sex but dressed as clowns making all sort of clownish noises - let go quite a few farts due to the laughter.:rofl:


I am going to take this pointer myself as I suffer from PTSD and have these "flashes" still 3 years after the EA. Counseling is helping though but they still are triggered by little stuff that I try to avoid thinking about.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Use the MAP plan in Married Man Sex Life. Right now all you are doing is acting more beta. A plan that is guaranteed to make her throw up with disgust.


Well I bought the book and have been reading it all morning. Safe to say, I'm doomed. Now that I understand what you're talking about basically we were both probably 7's and then she went into fitness mode and now she's a breathtaking 9. and I'm probably a 6 now because instead of working out and being a semi famous musician, I'm skinny loser. I don't think I have enough time to get back into gear and make this happen before she's all done with me.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Use the MAP plan in Married Man Sex Life. Right now all you are doing is acting more beta. A plan that is guaranteed to make her throw up with disgust.


Ok I have to follow up on that last one... So we still have sex and its not like she turns me down, and on the flip side, she still asks. We're both initiating at this point. So maybe on her radar I'm still up there? So then maybe if I actually try and consciously put some effort in, her panties will be constantly soaked from thinking about me? Maybe its not too late.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

FTSOR,

Dude, if you guys are still going at it and she is initiating then your window of opportunity is still open.

I still think you guys need to communicate with each other.

And you need to lay it all on the line with her that you love her, want to be married to her without all the baggage though and that you are fighting for your marriage.

Make it clear and then attack the situation.

All rock stars get old. It is how they live their lives however that defines them. Do not take the easy way out and go for it.


But make it clear to her what you are doing. And she needs to be honest with you too!!!

HM64


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> FTSOR,
> 
> Dude, if you guys are still going at it and she is initiating then your window of opportunity is still open.
> 
> ...



Well I've been reading "married man sex life" for the past 6 hours instead of working... oops. Anyway going to try some of this on my wife. Starting in like 30 minutes. I got a babysitter so tonight is going to be a surprise dinner, followed by pulling the car into a make out spot by the river... hopefully some playful back seat fun, and hopefully that will set the stage for this evening. She would probably bang me anyway, but I'm going to try and be more alpha, less ****tard. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Have a great time and don't get arrested for sex in public!!!!

I mean have a great dinner with your wife.....


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> her phone has a data plan and your house has wifi, right?


Not dissing you in any way, just wondering why all the negativity? I honestly get it. There could be stuff going on that I don't know about. I'm taking the stance that I know there are things I can do to improve me, and I'm going to take that head on. If I am able to sway her in my direction through not only physical, but also emotional attraction, I think the rest will follow. Do you disagree? I think if I can woo her back into my life, and just keep being the guy I WANT to be, then things will sort themselves out. We'll be starting counseling together soon, and if she has something to say, hopefully she'll feel so guilty that it'll come out eventually.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Unfortunately you can't nice a cheater out of an affair. They derive something from both relationships. Not to say she's cheating. But that is where that advice is coming from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Well tonight went pretty well. Ironically, the one night I actually make an effort, we didn't end up in the sack. We did have a good night. Took her to dinner, walked around the city for a bit, went home and laid in bed talking for about an hour. Then I left for work. 

I told her how amazing she was, how happy I was that we met, and that despite all that's happened, she's still the love of my life. I know she has some emotional hangup. Whether its some sort of mid life crisis, another person, or whatever, something changed tonight. She was responding a lot differently than she has in the past few weeks. I think whatever she was feeling is slowly going by the wayside, while *I* take over. If I can keep this up for another 10 or 15 years, I should be good.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Then keep going.

You work at night, what do you do???


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Then keep going.
> 
> You work at night, what do you do???


I always laugh when people ask me that. Even the words used to describe what I do aren't words that most people know... suffice it to say, I do some highly technical, extremely complex analysis of a lot of different things at a global company. I've worked 3rd shift since I was 18. Did a brief stint on second shift, and promptly returned to 3rd. Works out pretty well. I work 4x10 so I get tues-friday to hang, I only sleep 2 hours a day on sat and sun because we're always doing stuff on the weekends.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I am in tech to.

Here is why I asked.

Your schedule leaves your wife alone at night into the morning.

That type of schedule can really hurt a marriage. It is something to look into just so you cover your bases.

I was also a semi pro musician in NY. Did some cool gigs when I was younger.

My brother was a professional drummer. He did some tours in his day too! I hated the lifestyle and he felt he was too old (30) when his career started to take off. He did his last tour with bands like Def Lep and Bon Jovi. He never played professionally again. He was burned out.

Sh*t happens!

Keep your chin up and stay on your "A" game.

HM64


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Well tonight went pretty well. Ironically, the one night I actually make an effort, we didn't end up in the sack. We did have a good night. Took her to dinner, walked around the city for a bit, went home and laid in bed talking for about an hour. Then I left for work.
> 
> I told her how amazing she was, how happy I was that we met, and that despite all that's happened, she's still the love of my life. I know she has some emotional hangup. Whether its some sort of mid life crisis, another person, or whatever, something changed tonight. She was responding a lot differently than she has in the past few weeks. I think whatever she was feeling is slowly going by the wayside, while *I* take over. If I can keep this up for another 10 or 15 years, I should be good.


Do not act needy, do not cry in front of her, always be strong, romance her but she always needs to think you believe you will be fine with or without her.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

chapparal said:


> you will be fine with or without her.


This was always true. This is the point you need to reach, you are not defined by other people. When you had those emotional connections with women who weren't your partner, you were hoping they would complete you somehow. But no one can do that here on earth. Your wife is no different. She needs you to love yourself and respect yourself. That is how you will be the most faithful partner to her in life.

I am pulling for you. I hope that you are turning a corner. Even if there is more to learn about why she's been so distant, I hope you can both bridge the gap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Do not act needy, do not cry in front of her, always be strong, romance her but she always needs to think you believe you will be fine with or without her.


Right on. She needs to have the feeling that other women are going to be lined up to get their hands on you if she leaves. This is actually true. Especially if you can absorb and implement MMSL type game.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Right on. She needs to have the feeling that other women are going to be lined up to get their hands on you if she leaves. This is actually true. Especially if you can absorb and implement MMSL type game.



I haven't seen any MAJOR changes yet because its only been a few days, but I'm surprised at how much a little reading boosts one's confidence. Seriously after reading that book, I felt like the man. Its a lot harder in practice, but I wrote down some key points on a piece of paper and just glance at it to remind myself what I need to do.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Update: I've been getting seriously alpha on her ass. Its working. She seems to be really responding. She's not only opening up emotionally, but she is being rather submissive in the sack. Last night we were at a party and the guys were having a pull up contest. I haven't been to the gym in a few years, but I am generally pretty strong... Anyway, I did more than anyone except for my uncle, who is basically a professional body builder, and she was all oogly eyed at me all night and wouldn't shut up about it for a few hours. When we got home, she told me about how my EA from a year ago was really bothering her and it seemed like its turned around... like she's worried about losing me now. Apologizing for everything and how she's acting etc. That dude Athol is the man. That's all I have to say about that.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

forthesakeofreason said:


> Update: I've been getting seriously alpha on her ass. Its working. She seems to be really responding. She's not only opening up emotionally, but she is being rather submissive in the sack. Last night we were at a party and the guys were having a pull up contest. I haven't been to the gym in a few years, but I am generally pretty strong... Anyway, I did more than anyone except for my uncle, who is basically a professional body builder, and she was all oogly eyed at me all night and wouldn't shut up about it for a few hours. When we got home, she told me about how my EA from a year ago was really bothering her and it seemed like its turned around... like she's worried about losing me now. Apologizing for everything and how she's acting etc. That dude Athol is the man. That's all I have to say about that.



Good. Keep up the Alpha and make your own fireworks tonight.

Then you two can start fixing your marriage together.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Update: I've been getting seriously alpha on her ass. Its working. She seems to be really responding. She's not only opening up emotionally, but she is being rather submissive in the sack. Last night we were at a party and the guys were having a pull up contest. I haven't been to the gym in a few years, but I am generally pretty strong... Anyway, I did more than anyone except for my uncle, who is basically a professional body builder, and she was all oogly eyed at me all night and wouldn't shut up about it for a few hours.


But you know what? If you ask a woman if this situation would turn her on somehow 9/10 she would say no. 

Truth is, they love physical power demonstrations. Specially when in direct competition with other males. But will never admit it. 

Women can be so strange sometimes.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

OK, we had a blowout the other night. She had plans to go to her friends bachelorette party (she's had these plans for months) and given what happened I wasn't cool at all with her going. We agreed she would not be going to bars without me in light of what's happened. So I stole a line right from Athol's blog and said "I'm not comfortable with you going" and remained firm on that. Eventually she blew up on me and told me we were getting divorced and that she was going. Then she got sick about an hour into the party and ended up texting me all night long from her hotel. Then today she told me that she was relieved she got sick because she didn't really want to be there... ok, so here's what happened during our blowout:

Total freak out on both sides. Like I broke our door by accident cause I was kind of flipping out, (ok, total melt down flipping out), then I asked her to come talk to me in the bed room and I sat in front of the door so she couldn't leave... after 10 minutes of silence we start talking. She tells me that she lied about her second instance of cheating. She said she thought I was going to kill her if she told me she slept with someone so she just said she gave someone a half hearted BJ instead. Given the circumstance and how well I know her and how she reacts to high stress situations, coupled with how much I know of her sexually, I tend to believe this. What did she have to lose by redacting this? This was basically "our last conversation" before the end type of thing (yeah it was ****ing bad). So since I work nights, I just left, and she stayed. She left the whole next day and night (for the party) and came back this morning. 

We had a text conversation about her sleeping with this other dude. I asked her about it. She told me about it. She told me she immediately regretted it. 

Man I'm so confused, but we start counseling on Thursday. Hopefully we get somewhere.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

She overrode your decision with regards to the bachelorette party, so what are her consequences?


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> She overrode your decision with regards to the bachelorette party, so what are her consequences?


I wouldn't say she overrode... See, before I started reading and getting involved in this forum and she had brought it up a few weeks ago. I said this was an OK exception (as a total beta *****). So instead of telling her flat out I didn't want her to go, I told her I wasn't comfortable and left it up to her. I think her consequence was God striking her with food poisoning... Seriously talk about instant karma.


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## forthesakeofreason (May 29, 2012)

Also, totally random, but her sister who I had the EA with a year ago just got a job at my work... I gave my notice 3 days later. My last day is this Friday.


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