# Are There Different Levels of Affairs?



## Broken414 (Jun 7, 2014)

An affair is an affair...right?

I found out 2 months ago my wife had an ONS with a former friend of mine 13 years ago before we started having kids. The way I found out was almost as bad. We were at a wedding and the guy was there. "Supposedly" she had not talked with him, since that night. She claims the ONS was a horrible mistake she made as an immature, selfish 25 year old girl and has always regretted the event. The night consisted of making out after a night of partying, but no sex. At the recent wedding, this douche starts hitting on her. She did not tell me because of being scared I would find out about the past. During the night I sensed this guy may have been coming onto her, but I thought maybe I was just being jealous while intoxicated. The next day I found her text to a friend that revealed she was freaking out the night before when he was hitting on her, but the text also revealed something had happened in the past. Also, the text showed she turned him down when he tried to get her to talk with him in his room. I confronted her and she came clean about the past. I also called him to ask WTF he was thinking making passes at my wife. He apologized and said he was drunk not conscious of what he was doing...BS!

I am so angry at her for the past, but also for not respecting our relationship at the wedding. Because of how I found out I think she enjoyed his attention that night and may have been flirting in her drunken state, but she disagrees. She accepts full responsibility about not acting appropriate both nights, but states there was no attraction or lust towards him. A side note, my wife suffers from depression & anxiety. After the big blow up, She went to see a psych and set up MC for us in an effort to be stronger and try to save our marriage. We have been together for 20 years and married for 15. For the most part I feel we have had a good marriage, but not perfect. Since having 3 kids and maturing, our relationship has gotten better with time. I am devastated and feel like the event happened 10 minutes ago. I guess I've been trying to rationalize the events to make it easier on myself, but ultimately I know my wife broke our vows. The thoughts are consuming me. I want to leave her, but my heart breaks even more when I think about our 3 young kids. Part of me wants to believe her, but the other part tells me our love will never be the same. She is remorseful for everything and working hard to save our marriage. Am I being extreme?


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Your D Day was 2 months ago. Life would be hell for you for quite a while. Did you expose to the OM's wife?


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

It doesn't matter when the affair was, to you it just happened. My ww had a two year affair 25 years ago. I just found out on D-Day. I tried to tell myself it was a long time ago, but that didn't help much. To me it just happened, if fact even worse in a way because my wife has forgotten or blocked most of the details (her memory isn't all that great anyway unless it concerns something I did wrong). If indeed that's all she's done during your entire marraige, that may be of some comfort. My ww cheated again 25 years later, so I gained no solice in the fact it was so long ago.

Make sure your WS knows that to you, it just happened. WS's trend to want to put the whole thing behind them because it's "in the past". They need to know that ain't going to happen.


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## Broken414 (Jun 7, 2014)

Just sucks especially since kids are involved! She has been a good wife with the exception of the incidence(that I know of) and a good mother.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

From another thread...



GusPolinski said:


> ...I believe that you're allowing the pain intrinsic to infidelity as a betrayed spouse to color your opinions in this regard in a very "black and white" kind of way. That's certainly understandable, but this, IMO, is ultimately a very flawed way of thinking, as it doesn't allow any room for the countless subtleties that exist within any relationship -- most especially a marriage.
> 
> ...there are degrees of betrayal and, consequently, degrees of hurt. But who hurts more? The husband who catches his wife in emotional affairs? The husband whose wife has a "one night stand" and then confesses? The wife whose husband engages in multiple affairs (emotional and physical affairs, one or more of which is a long-term relationship, etc) over the course of several years and only "confesses" once caught? The wife whose husband spends several years in a purely physical relationship w/ another woman? The person who catches his or her spouse in a homosexual relationship w/ another person? The husband whose wife spends several years (WARNING! LOLs ahead...) "escorting" everything from other men, other women, small kitchen appliances, dwarves, clowns, and the family dog into her birth canal?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You could divorce her. Many would say it is your moral right.

How would you feel about your kids finding out why you divorced her?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Broken414 said:


> The night consisted of making out after a night of partying, but no sex.


How certain are you of this? "Just kissing", quite often, means full-on sex.



Broken414 said:


> I also called him to ask WTF he was thinking making passes at my wife. He apologized and said he was drunk not conscious of what he was doing...BS!


Does he have a wife or girlfriend? If so, make sure that he stays the f*ck away from your wife by dropping a dime on him.



Broken414 said:


> I am devastated and feel like the event happened 10 minutes ago.


That's because you just found out about it.



Broken414 said:


> I guess I've been trying to rationalize the events to make it easier on myself, but ultimately I know my wife broke our vows.


Correct. Place the blame where it lies, and not on yourself.



Broken414 said:


> The thoughts are consuming me. I want to leave her, but my heart breaks even more when I think about our 3 young kids. Part of me wants to believe her, but the other part tells me our love will never be the same.


It probably won't ever be the same but it could be better... But only if BOTH of you want it to be. You're both in counseling, correct?



Broken414 said:


> She is remorseful for everything and working hard to save our marriage. Am I being extreme?


Right now you're cycling through a ton of different emotions. Some of that is probably because you're not convinced that you know everything that happened between them all those years ago. Again, how certain are you that she's told you the complete truth?

What has she offered to you in order to give you the assurances that you need? Has she offered or agreed to take a polygraph? What about a post-nup?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Broken414 said:


> An affair is an affair...right?
> 
> I found out 2 months ago my wife had an ONS with a former friend of mine 13 years ago before we started having kids. The way I found out was almost as bad. We were at a wedding and the guy was there. "Supposedly" she had not talked with him, since that night. She claims the ONS was a horrible mistake she made as an immature, selfish 25 year old girl and has always regretted the event. The night consisted of making out after a night of partying, but no sex. At the recent wedding, this douche starts hitting on her. She did not tell me because of being scared I would find out about the past. During the night I sensed this guy may have been coming onto her, but I thought maybe I was just being jealous while intoxicated. The next day I found her text to a friend that revealed she was freaking out the night before when he was hitting on her, but the text also revealed something had happened in the past. Also, the text showed she turned him down when he tried to get her to talk with him in his room. I confronted her and she came clean about the past. I also called him to ask WTF he was thinking making passes at my wife. He apologized and said he was drunk not conscious of what he was doing...BS!
> 
> I am so angry at her for the past, but also for not respecting our relationship at the wedding. Because of how I found out I think she enjoyed his attention that night and may have been flirting in her drunken state, but she disagrees. She accepts full responsibility about not acting appropriate both nights, but states there was no attraction or lust towards him. A side note, my wife suffers from depression & anxiety. After the big blow up, She went to see a psych and set up MC for us in an effort to be stronger and try to save our marriage. We have been together for 20 years and married for 15. For the most part I feel we have had a good marriage, but not perfect. Since having 3 kids and maturing, our relationship has gotten better with time. I am devastated and feel like the event happened 10 minutes ago. I guess I've been trying to rationalize the events to make it easier on myself, but ultimately I know my wife broke our vows. The thoughts are consuming me. I want to leave her, but my heart breaks even more when I think about our 3 young kids. Part of me wants to believe her, but the other part tells me our love will never be the same. She is remorseful for everything and working hard to save our marriage. Am I being extreme?


I have a real problem with this...

She did this to you and then never told you. Never.

Now, after being deceived for all these years you have to find out and then believe whatever story she now decides to feed you. 

That's really tough to do.

As bad as a betrayal is, if the betrayer steps right up, confesses the full truth and is truly remorseful then you may something to work with.

But now one has to rightly ask a host of questions... Just was their "relationship"? Have there been others since then? And so on.

Were it me I think I'd take 60 days away and try and sort through all this. I mean, if she essentially lied and deceived you all these years it's pretty hard to ever have faith or trust in her ever again, let alone what she's telling you now.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

An affair isn't just an affair.

But, the definition is in the eye of the betrayed, not the betrayer and certainly not internet strangers.

An affair is about all sorts of things. Sex is just a physical interaction on the face of it, but sex and love mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Ultimately, an affair is about dishonesty and lack of respect.

Had your wife told you *before* she was about to "kiss" this other man (that almost always means sex) then it would not have happened in most cases.

The damage it does depends on who it was with, how your wife went about it, how she told you when it was discovered, the remorse she shows and all sorts of other things.

The question is: What do you want? What can help you move forward?

Do you still want this marriage (it is, after all "for better or worse" and many marriages survive infidelity)?

It is very easy for people here to cry "dump her" and "kick her to the kerb" but life isn't that simple and this message is also fundamentally anti marriage.

It is early days for you. You need your wife's support.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your love will never be the same.

Do you think your wife's character has improved during the time you've been together? Has she been a positive influence on you?

Are you generally proud of her?

Do you have issues that you constantly quarrel over?


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## Anomnom (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm sorry that you're going through such pain. I think talking of divorce and leaving are very extreme though. Whilst I understand the feelings of betrayal you're having and that she has broken your trust, you said the marriage has been pretty good and she's a good mother, two very big reasons to try to work through this, not just leave and destroy everyone's lives, yours, your kids and your wife's. 

An affair is an affair yes, but there are different levels..emotional attachment, love, purely physical, one off, etc etc, none of which are ever acceptable in a marriage but if it was a completely meaningless, stupid one off thing over 20 years ago, it certainly isn't the same as if she had a 10 year love affair with someone and she lead a double life type deal.

If you can't communicate openly with her anymore, get some outside help (counseling) to see if you can forgive her and trust again, then make decisions after you've both done everything you can to save the relationship. It was a lifetime ago, which in no way excuses it, but as you said, you have had a good relationship til now, don't throw it away based on what random strangers online are telling you.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Ultimately, an affair is about dishonesty and lack of respect.


And even, I would hazard, disdain in some cases.


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## Broken414 (Jun 7, 2014)

Wow, thanks everyone for your input. From what I can tell she has come clean, but I guess that is what every betrayed person feels. Someone asked the question, " what will your kids think about why you divorced". That is one of my biggest reasons for not leaving! 2 of my kids are girls and I wonder how something like this will effect them for the rest of their lives. Since the ONS happened b4 kids, can a woman change? I am not the same person I was 13 years ago.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> You need your wife's support.


And this is also right. Can't be underscored enough. I always felt like "If you would just try to friggin try to help me with this?!" instead of layering on the mindf*ck and blame.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Broken414 said:


> An affair is an affair...right?
> 
> I found out 2 months ago my wife had an ONS with a former friend of mine 13 years ago before we started having kids. The way I found out was almost as bad. We were at a wedding and the guy was there. "Supposedly" she had not talked with him, since that night. She claims the ONS was a horrible mistake she made as an immature, selfish 25 year old girl and has always regretted the event. The night consisted of making out after a night of partying, but no sex. At the recent wedding, this douche starts hitting on her. She did not tell me because of being scared I would find out about the past. During the night I sensed this guy may have been coming onto her, but I thought maybe I was just being jealous while intoxicated. The next day I found her text to a friend that revealed she was freaking out the night before when he was hitting on her, but the text also revealed something had happened in the past. Also, the text showed she turned him down when he tried to get her to talk with him in his room. I confronted her and she came clean about the past. I also called him to ask WTF he was thinking making passes at my wife. He apologized and said he was drunk not conscious of what he was doing...BS!
> 
> I am so angry at her for the past, but also for not respecting our relationship at the wedding. Because of how I found out I think she enjoyed his attention that night and may have been flirting in her drunken state, but she disagrees. She accepts full responsibility about not acting appropriate both nights, but states there was no attraction or lust towards him. *A side note, my wife suffers from depression & anxiety. * After the big blow up, She went to see a psych and set up MC for us in an effort to be stronger and try to save our marriage. We have been together for 20 years and married for 15. For the most part I feel we have had a good marriage, but not perfect. Since having 3 kids and maturing, our relationship has gotten better with time. I am devastated and feel like the event happened 10 minutes ago. I guess I've been trying to rationalize the events to make it easier on myself, but ultimately I know my wife broke our vows. The thoughts are consuming me. I want to leave her, but my heart breaks even more when I think about our 3 young kids. Part of me wants to believe her, but the other part tells me our love will never be the same. She is remorseful for everything and working hard to save our marriage. Am I being extreme?




The depression and anxiety likely arose because she had sex/affair with your "friend" 13 years ago. With her way of suppressing the affair, she messed herself up emotionally. 

Or, she's trying to be a good wife but knows she's not.

The affair was about 13 years ago? Do you have a child around 10+ years old? (DNA paternity test needed perhaps?)

A scenario for you to think about...


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Not in any way to make light of it, but ONS, I think, typically connotes something more than a kiss. Not that a kiss is any less of a problem.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

So, about 2 years into the marriage, she cheated with your friend? That honeymoon/newlywed stage of the marriage probably never existed since she cheated so easily.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

How can OP be sure this was her only affair or ONS?

Of course the ONS would bother me but thinking about all the other years ..... We here at TAM have seen multiple affairs uncovered after the first and only supposedly ONS. 

I honestly want to believe this was her only affair and I want to tell you to forgive her and stay together. I just think you need to give it time to make sure this hasn't happened more than once. 

If your life right now is great, you could benefit from some MC and IC and try to work your marriage out. 

I say if this is her only indesgression, maybe a reconciliation is in order. 

Try to find out more. 

I'm really sorry, it sucks to find out about any type on infidelity. P!sses me off.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Broken414 said:


> An affair is an affair...right?
> I found out 2 months ago my wife had an ONS with a former friend of mine 13 years ago before we started having kids.


Once a spouse engages with an OM/OW secretly and inappropriately, whether it be physical or not, a ONS or an ongoing affair, one year ago or 20, the line has been crossed. The relationship loses its most vital component - trust. What's worse, the betrayal can never be undone. Because of all that, the pain the BS feels is like no other pain. To be betrayed by your life partner is one of the most painful things you will ever experience and this is where you are at right now. 



> The night consisted of making out after a night of partying, but no sex.


Maybe and maybe not. The word on the street here at TAM is 'we kissed' means 'we had sex'. I agree. Frankly for me 'making out' is enough. Even a spouse entertaining someones advances and encouraging them is enough in my books. Even that is incredibly hurtful for a spouse because the line has been crossed. 



> At the recent wedding, this douche starts hitting on her.


She shouldn't have entertained it for a minute, especially if she has felt such remorse over the years. So much for her remorse. She should have immediately gone over and stood beside you and linked your arm to put him off and send a message loud and clear.



> I am so angry at her for the past, but also for not respecting our relationship at the wedding.


So would I because she entertained it. All us ladies know very well how to stop unwanted advances. It's easy. The easiest way is to put physical distance between us. In this case she could have just gone over to you. Simple. 



> She accepts full responsibility about not acting appropriately both nights, but states there was no attraction or lust towards him.


Baloney. If she was making out with him on her ONS how could there be no attraction or lust. Have you ever kissed a girl you weren't attracted to? She entertained him again on the second night. It would have fed her ego to know he was still interested after all these years - just one of the possible reasons for her behaviour. In both cases she wasn't thinking much about you. 



> A side note, my wife suffers from depression & anxiety. After the big blow up, She went to see a psych and set up MC for us in an effort to be stronger and try to save our marriage. We have been together for 20 years and married for 15. For the most part I feel we have had a good marriage, but not perfect. Since having 3 kids and maturing, our relationship has gotten better with time. I am devastated and feel like the event happened 10 minutes ago. I guess I've been trying to rationalize the events to make it easier on myself, but ultimately I know my wife broke our vows. The thoughts are consuming me. I want to leave her, but my heart breaks even more when I think about our 3 young kids. Part of me wants to believe her, but the other part tells me our love will never be the same. She is remorseful for everything and working hard to save our marriage. Am I being extreme?


Deep down you know you will never feel the same about her again. Most, probably all BS feel the same. And it's easy to see why. The worst thing a spouse can do is behave inappropriately with an OM/OW behind the spouse's back. 

I'm trying to be realistic here because you are having a hard time dealing with it. All of us BS on here have been through it. The emotions are the same in all cases. You will get lots of support and empathy on here. 

My advice would be to look at your options. Go to a lawyer and see exactly how the D would be, financially and custody-wise. You don't have to D but it's a good idea to be know your options. 

Also it will bug you as to whether she slept with him that first time and exactly what happened the second time. Sit her down and tell her she has one chance and one chance only to tell you everything - in as much detail as you want. Also tell her that if you find out down the track that she wasn't truthful you will divorce her immediately. 

Also, make sure to tell OM's wife if he has one. She deserves to know what her husband does behind her back. 

I take a hard-line view on betrayal because of the depth of the pain for the BS. All BS on here know exactly what you are going through. Your life has been turned upsidedown. 

I am sorry you are here. But you will get great support and good advice.


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## SweetSandy (Jun 8, 2014)

Broken414, please be rational and don't rush to do some of the things suggested here (see a lawyer, threaten divorce, do a paternity test, etc.), they will make things much worse. It's hard and devastating to find out this way but time will heal, let it go, it's the past and it's not worth rehashing it. From everything you said, it seems like a it was a one time mistake and it's over. She probably didn't intentionally tried to deceive you, she was most likely worried about protecting your marriage.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SweetSandy said:


> Broken414, please be rational and don't rush to do some of the things suggested here (see a lawyer, threaten divorce, do a paternity test, etc.), they will make things much worse. It's hard and devastating to find out this way but time will heal, let it go, it's the past and it's not worth rehashing it. From everything you said, it seems like a it was a one time mistake and it's over. She probably didn't intentionally tried to deceive you, she was most likely worried about protecting your marriage.


I couldn't disagree more. He JUST found out about his, and more digging is in order. She lied about this for THIRTEEN YEARS. He'd be more than just naive to think that he can just take her at her word.

Dig, OP. Don't threaten, yell, or turn into a hurricane of tepid misery, but DIG.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

SweetSandy said:


> Broken414, please be rational and don't rush to do some of the things suggested here (see a lawyer, threaten divorce, do a paternity test, etc.), they will make things much worse. It's hard and devastating to find out this way but time will heal, let it go, it's the past and it's not worth rehashing it. From everything you said, it seems like a it was a one time mistake and it's over. She probably didn't intentionally tried to deceive you, she was most likely worried about protecting your marriage.



Dont threaten divorce unless you are going to carry through.

Do find out where you stand legally and how to improve your situation.

Dont rugsweep as suggested here. Shine the light on everything. Know the truth so that you can make decisions based on facts.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

SweetSandy said:


> Broken414...She probably didn't intentionally tried to deceive you, she was most likely worried about protecting your marriage.


Whether I agreed with your post or not, I was fine with it until this part.

There is no other way to put it- of course she intentionally tried to deceive him. Do you think she forgot to tell him? And therein lies the problem. It also begs the question as to how much more went on. 

No disrespect intended, but I think you're sticking up too much for the wrong person.

At the very least, faith & trust is totally shattered.

I think some time away to get his thinking clear and the rest of the story (uf there is more) is in order as well as how to move forward.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Gotta admit, this has been an interesting thead. Most of the guys are for a lynching and most the ladies want a free pass given.


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Gotta admit, this has been an interesting thead. Most of the guys are for a lynching and most the ladies want a free pass given.


Not **********.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

Broken:

Please factor into your thought process these:

When a Betrayed Spouse says but for THIS (ONS, etc), she / he has been a good spouse and parent, *what it often means in real terms is: the WS is very good at compartmentalization.*

It is very unlikely that the man who tried to hit on her after so many years, spurred by the memory of the past, would have stopped THEN after just an ONS. He was more likely to have chased after her for a while at least, post the ONS, and perhaps succeeded a bit (or more) too. In all probability, her ‘just kissing and making out’ was no-holds-barred sex. And probably, the ONS went a little farther than just that too. Be prepared for the possibility of that revelation in the near future.

*Be realistic when / if you reconcile.* Best of luck.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Dig, OP. Don't threaten, yell, or *turn into a hurricane of tepid misery,* but DIG.



That painted the whole picture, Gus.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She came clean because she got caught? What else did she not tell you?

So cheated around the 7 year mark that you know of. 

She did not give you the choice or respect to make your own decisions when she cheated and decided not to tell you about it.

Schedule a polygraph. There might be more skeletons in the closet.

Do you think she would be fine if you cheat on her and tell her a few years down the line ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

SweetSandy said:


> Broken414, please be rational and don't rush to do some of the things suggested here (see a lawyer, threaten divorce, do a paternity test, etc.), they will make things much worse. It's hard and devastating to find out this way but time will heal, let it go, it's the past and it's not worth rehashing it. From everything you said, it seems like a it was a one time mistake and it's over. *She probably didn't intentionally tried to deceive you, she was most likely worried about protecting your marriage.*


She also deserves a medal ? :scratchhead:

Is this the wife ?


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## Anomnom (Jun 25, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Gotta admit, this has been an interesting thead. Most of the guys are for a lynching and most the ladies want a free pass given.


Definitely not a free pass, but some understanding that it could have legitimately been what she said it was which wouldn't warrant the OP seeing a lawyer, leaving his children, divorce etc etc and could be resolved over time seeing a MC and much much discussion with his wife to get the whole truth.

It is not rug sweeping, it is preventing destroying lives by making it into something it wasn't. So many people here are so bitter and twisted by their own experiences it taints their advice to others. There is no simple solution, just what you feel is right.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Just for the record I didn't say get a divorce - I did suggest to OP that he looks at his options - maybe it isn't an option financially and custody-wise - he just needs to quietly check it out. 

I did say threaten divorce if WS doesn't give him the 100% truth immediately. 99% of WS will do almost anything but tell the 100% truth and she needs to know he is serious. I'm just trying to save OP the pain of trickle truth. Lies on top of the lies. Imagine 3 months down the track in R he discovers there was more. 

Time heals? R takes a looooooong time. And blind faith doesn't go very far when it comes to betrayal and so it shouldn't. All WS like to be given a break and not to be questioned and to get 'back to normal' immediately. Yeah, right!

So, insofar as give her a break, let it go and assume she's telling the 100% truth? Baloney. 

What is very cruel and downright nasty about this situation is *the second time around, IN THE PRESENT, when she had the chance to respect her husband, *she behaved inappropriately with OM. Sheesh! Some party that was for OP. The jerk OM even felt confident enough to flirt with her knowing her husband was there. So what sort of signals was she putting out? What do y'all out there who are saying 'move on' etc have to say about all that? Would y'all tolerate your partner flirting with someone at a party and 'let it go' and 'move on'? And what if it was someone they had already betrayed you with? WS has agreed she behaved inappropriately. . . again. OP is hardly making it into something it wasn't. Put yourselves in his shoes. 

This all came out because OP noticed the flirting. So much so that he checked her texts the next day. It sucks. Remorse? If so she would have done the opposite. She got carried away. . . again!

OP, warn her in whatever way you think appropriate that now is the time for the whole truth. Then go dark and do some digging.


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## Broken414 (Jun 7, 2014)

Does the fact that she was drunk make any different?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

********** said:


> What is very cruel and downright nasty about this situation is *the second time around, IN THE PRESENT, when she had the chance to respect her husband, *she behaved inappropriately with OM. Sheesh! Some party that was for OP. The jerk OM even felt confident enough to flirt with her knowing her husband was there. So what sort of signals was she putting out? What do y'all out there who are saying 'move on' etc have to say about all that? Would y'all tolerate your partner flirting with someone at a party and 'let it go' and 'move on'? And what if it was someone they had already betrayed you with? WS has agreed she behaved inappropriately. . . again. OP is hardly making it into something it wasn't. Put yourselves in his shoes.
> 
> This all came out because OP noticed the flirting. So much so that he checked her texts the next day. It sucks. Remorse? If so she would have done the opposite. She got carried away. . . again!
> 
> OP, warn her in whatever way you think appropriate that now is the time for the whole truth. Then go dark and do some digging.


I have to say, having given this some thought this part sounds dodgy to say the least. As another poster said, she should have immediately stopped talking to this douche and stood with her husband to make a point.

I would be thinking that she was entertaining the idea of getting up to something there and then or maybe hooking up later again, realised it wasn't going to work and *then* came clean.

My original comments stand, but I also agree OP should not say much more but do a *lot* of digging - emails, Facebook, Whatsapp if it's there etc. etc.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Broken414 said:


> Does the fact that she was drunk make any different?


Alcohol lowers inhibitions, so yes, but it doesn't change feelings.

I know many women who are way more flirty after a drink but I believe sometimes they play up to the "tipsy silly little woman" thing to get attention and more sometimes...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Broken414 said:


> Does the fact that she was drunk make any different?


I don't believe it does. As even when drunk, if there are boundaries in place and no attraction it doesn't happen. Drunk people don't do it with people that they are not attracted to just because they are drunk. She obviously still has feelings for this AP. All the drinking does in this case is lowers the inhibitions and makes it easier to happen what she/ he wants to happen in the first place. It is not an excuse, as their never is an excuse for cheating. It is a choice someone makes. 

The fact she hid it all of these years speaks volumes in my mind. Then combine the fact that the first time she sees him again she continues right back where they left off. Icing on that cake to me.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

My gut tells me you should hang in there. I'm a bit cynical about cheaters and reconciliation but I think you should give it a shot and then re-evaluate.

If your wife is really trying and answering your questions and there aren't obvious holes in what she says then it might be worth hanging on. 

My ex WS's line of commentary did not ad up. It was pathetic to read and to listen to. She simply ran the line that it was all made up - all fantasy; she didn't mean a word of what she said to the POSOM and she didn't have any pleasure from having sex with him - you get the picture?

Because I wasn't part of her secret world I couldn't possibly have a handle on what really took place. I am not to believe an iota of what she said to him and I should discount everything that piece of excrement OM confessed to me. All lies - it was nothing.

You don't have anything like that going on so maybe give it a shot - maybe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Broken414 said:


> Wow, thanks everyone for your input. From what I can tell she has come clean, but I guess that is what every betrayed person feels. Someone asked the question, " what will your kids think about why you divorced". That is one of my biggest reasons for not leaving! 2 of my kids are girls and I wonder how something like this will effect them for the rest of their lives. Since the ONS happened b4 kids, can a woman change? I am not the same person I was 13 years ago.


Anyone can make a mistake, once. Any more than once? That's not a mistake it is either a lifestyle choice or the result of someone who is badly broken.

MC, and see how it goes.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Broken414 said:


> Does the fact that she was drunk make any different?


How do you behave when you are drunk B414? Do you flirt? Could you end up making out with a guy? Would you use being drunk as an explanation to your husband for a ONS? Just asking. 

If spouses can't be trusted when they are drunk and it can be used as an excuse, then when making their marriage vows, all spouses should also promise that they will never get drunk because they wouldn't be able to help themselves and might stray and not keep their vows. 

I myself have had a lot to drink on many occasions with and without my husband. I chat, have fun, even dance. But there's a line in the sand when it turns into flirting. None of us are stupid and let's face it, all of us know that line if we are honest, even when we are 'drunk'.

Methinks the world is divided in two. Those spouses who will end up making out when drunk, and those who don't. 

Sadly OP's wife clearly belongs to the latter and couldn't help flirting with OM when they met again *13 years later, even when her husband was present*. That is what galls me about this particular situation. 

But she was drunk. . . again. Right? 3 children later - even that couldn't stop her. Not a silly 25 year old as she put it herself. Which is btw another lame excuse. By 25, people are 'grown-ups' and not silly. That's for teenagers. But it's her 'excuse' for the ONS the first time around.

OP, I'm not saying you and WS can't come back from this but you need at the very least to take her to task and not accept her lame excuses. Get to the bottom of all this and find out who your WS really is and what she really thinks of your relationship and why she was so easily drawn in by OM yet again and didn't want to tell him to 'pi** off' and come and seek you her husband out at that party.

It was her chance to show her remorse and stand by you and she blew it out of the water.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aug said:


> The depression and anxiety likely arose because she had sex/affair with your "friend" 13 years ago. With her way of suppressing the affair, she messed herself up emotionally.
> 
> Or, she's trying to be a good wife but knows she's not.
> 
> ...


When did he become a former friend any why did he become a former friend?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

********** said:


> What do you do when you are drunk B414. Just asking and maybe you don't get drunk.
> 
> I myself have had a lot to drink on many occasions with and without my husband. Perhaps I was more flirty than usual, I'm not even sure being drunk.
> 
> ...


When my revenge EA went near PA I was *very* drunk. 

You know, I am still unsure of whether it went the way it did because I was drunk, or if I got that drunk in order to get to the point of being able to physically cheat?:scratchhead:


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Anomnom said:


> ... is not rug sweeping, it is preventing destroying lives by making it into something it wasn't...


That's on the assumption that after living a lie and being totally deceitful for all these years the first time he denands to know what happened she was 100% honest.

Do you really believe that? 

I mean, please PM me as I have some ocean front property to sell you in Nebraska....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's on the assumption that after living a lie and being totally deceitful for all these years the first time he denands to know what happened she was 100% honest.
> 
> Do you really believe that?
> 
> I mean, please PM me as I have some ocean front property to sell you in Nebraska....


Anyone who is capable of making the mistake of having an affair or a ONS is capable of making the mistake of trying to protect their SO or spouse from learning of their betrayal.

However, threads like: "I am in such pain! I just found out my spouse cheated on me xx months/years ago!" show us why this 'protection' is really not such a good idea.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> The OP said he had a good marriage, getting stronger by the day; the infidelity occurred 13 years ago, during which time they've managed to create a happy household for their family; she has shown remorse and is willing to work on regaining his trust. With some help from OM, the OP and his wife have a good, if not GREAT, chance at reconciliation.


My point is the marriage wasn't strong enough for her to 'pi** off' the jerk when he reappeared 13 years later. She flirted with him, AGH! and OP noticed which is how he found out. 

Posters seem to be focusing on 13 years ago. I'm thinking of the 'now' and it's not looking too healthy to me. 

Lila, how would you cope with your husband flirting with someone at a party. Would you call that a good marriage? Would you feel like making sweet music with him later? And what if it was an OW he had a ONS with years ago? I know how I'd feel!

There is always a chance for R, especially with 3 kids. But I'm concerned for OP because of how WS behaved in the present which is why I ain't cutting her any slack whatsoever. There is more to this than meets the eye IMO and I think OP has to get to the bottom of why she flirted with anyone at a party, let alone an OM.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Given that she was flirting with the OM recently and her depression/anxiety during the past years, I believe OP needs to really dig deep into the whole marriage, the former friend, paternity, etc just to have a semblance of comfort.


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

Lila said:


> Boundaries differ within each individual marriage so what I may describe as acceptable to me may not be true to you. Having said this, I consider healthy flirting a good thing. I'm okay with my husband flirting as long as it's not done secretively, and doesn't extend beyond our sexual or emotional boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its fine that you feel so confident, however your outlook is the minority of the betrayed on TAM. There have been many stories of spouses as confident as you that get destroyed in the end.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Broken414 said:


> Just sucks especially since kids are involved! She has been a good wife with the exception of the incidence(that I know of) and a good mother.


And those are the operative words: that I know of

Because of this, the whole history of the marriage is now in doubt, right? Now you wonder, if she was able to do this before, what other things has she done in the 25 years that you don't know about? She was willing to take her secret to the grave if she wasn't caught. That's how affairs destroy trust. I know, I've been there.

Another one by the numbers alright.


Only "made out" with OM - Check (Trickle Truth) - ADULTS DON'T MAKE OUT WHEN THEY HAVE PRIVACY!!!
Only confessed when caught - Check
BS tries to explain away WS . She suffers from depression & anxiety - Check
BS tries to explain away WS - She was drunk

NC since 25 years ago. Okay. So far you haven't blamed yourself for the affair, usually BSs come here and blame themselves that they were inattentive or weren't the perfect husband/wife. 

As others have said, you need to do more investigating. And expose this to the OMW/OMGF if he has one. Far too many people use alcohol as an excuse for their sh!tty behavior.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Broken414 said:


> Does the fact that she was drunk make any different?


Was she drunk for 13 years after this?


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

Lila said:


> QUOTE=tdwal;9100978]Its fine that you feel so confident, however your outlook is the minority of the betrayed on TAM. There have been many stories of spouses as confident as you that get destroyed in the end.


Tdwal, I don't want to sound snarky but what exactly does your post have to do with the thread? More importantly to me, why quote my post in your post? :scratchhead:

**********'s questions were directed at me and were meant to provoke deep thinking about my responses to the OP's situation were I the one experiencing the infidelity. I can only provide answers based on _MY_ experiences, _MY_ Life, and _MY_ marriage. I was hoping the caveats of "Boundaries differ within each individual marriage so what I may describe as acceptable to me may not be true to you", "Speaking only for my relationship", and "Your mileage may vary" would be enough to denote that these were _MY_ responses based on _MY_ experiences and by no means represent the majority. 

I didn't know that there were right and wrong answers, and the only right answers the one's shared by the majority. I now see why several of the TAMers call it a lynchmob mentality. [/QUOTE]

Oh come on your that sensitive that someone disagrees you think there part of a lynchmob.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Lila said:


> Speaking only for my relationship, I do think healthy flirting can be good for a marriage. Flirty banter/conversation lifts the spirit; causes warm, fuzzy feelings; and serves as a huge pick-me-up. It harmlessly boosts our confidence.


Wow.

When I think of how many betrayals that began with "healthy" flirting....

I never flirt with other women out of respect for my wife.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You need to schedule a poly.

Her reaction of getting flustered and allowing herself to be hit on and in a position to be asked to go to his room and also revealing information to a friend in a text, does not agree with the "making out after getting drunk 13 years ago".


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Hicks said:


> You need to schedule a poly.
> 
> Her reaction of getting flustered and allowing herself to be hit on and in a position to be asked to go to his room and also revealing information to a friend in a text, does not agree with the "making out after getting drunk 13 years ago".


 THIS!!!!!?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

*Are There Different Levels of Affairs?*

The answer to that question is yes. And the severity of the A is something that all BS's have to consider.

But just as there are different levels of an A, there are also different levels of a BS's ability to get past them. For some, an EA or a ONS is a deal breaker; for others, a prolonged PA may not be.

You have to make that decision on your own. There is no right or wrong answer. But if you do "consider" R, the decision should be ongoing; weighing the WS's display of remorse, and discovering your own ability to recover - and that can take months or years.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> Tdwal, I don't want to sound snarky but what exactly does your post have to do with the thread? More importantly to me, why quote my post in your post? :scratchhead:
> 
> **********'s questions were directed at me and were meant to provoke deep thinking about my responses to the OP's situation were I the one experiencing the infidelity. I can only provide answers based on _MY_ experiences, _MY_ Life, and _MY_ marriage. I was hoping the caveats of "Boundaries differ within each individual marriage so what I may describe as acceptable to me may not be true to you", "Speaking only for my relationship", and "Your mileage may vary" would be enough to denote that these were _MY_ responses based on _MY_ experiences and by no means represent the majority.
> 
> I didn't know that there were right and wrong answers, and the only right answers the one's shared by the majority. I now see why several of the TAMers call it a lynchmob mentality.


Lynchmob sounds terribly aggressive. This is a forum with widely differing views, that's all. 

Great that your marriage is good, you are a confident woman, your husband hasn't betrayed you and flirting spices up your sex life. 

However a spouse flirting with someone she had a ONS with sure takes flirting to a whole new level IMO. And it doesn't say much for how she values her husband or marriage in the present. OM had some gall to try it on with her husband there. Not much fun in all that IMO, at least not for OP. 

That is why OP has to get to the bottom of her motivation for behaving so cruelly all these years later since she claims to be so remorseful. She sure didn't walk the talk. And he also needs to be satisfied that he has the truth about her ONS. He won't get anywhere without that. Betrayed spouses want the truth and 99% of WS don't seem to want to tell it and so BS gets the dreaded trickle truth. 

What I am suggesting is all part of R and not a trip to the divorce court. 
Truth, openness and true remorse. 
She is now being given a second chance to show remorse since she didn't this time around. 

How are you doing Broken414?


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

You may not be the same person you were thirteen years ago, but very rarely does the core part of your character change. You can often see changes in behavior, but a persons belief in right and wrong, often doesn't change. 

Like a convict whom is caught and punished for his crime. So then he refrains from committing the crime in the future. He will say he is as changed man. But really he has just modified his behavior, perhaps because he doesn't like that his crimes hurt people, perhaps because he doesn't want to face more punishment for his crimes; but almost never is it because he really feels differently about the act itself. He doesn't feel it's wrong to steal. He just doesn't actually steal because of other factors. 

So do selfish people really ever become completely unselfish people....not in my experience. 

And she only strayed this one time but never again.....? This would. E very very unlikely. She is so selfish that she goes out and has an affair with a guy, whom she didn't like or even lust after, and then has such a personality shift that she never again strays. Yeah right! 

I can see this being more true of a women who during a bad part of their marriage found herself wrapped up in an emotional dalliance and it went physical and she felt horrible and stopped immediately. But what your wife is describing is a conscious choice to go do this guy, for no real good reason other than "selfishness" and then a life changing paradigm shift occurs and she never strays again. Even when she does lust after someone else? 

Be prepared my friend, as I fear that unless you bury your hand I the sand, you are just beginning to discover the depths of the rabbit hole. 

It's a story we have seen play out here and other forums many times. 
That's old saying "a leopard doesn't change it's spots".....well it's a old saying for a reason. 

Sorry your here, I've been there. And it sucks bro.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I don't know if I believe that there are different levels, as much as there are different types or groups they fall into. Levels indicates to me degrees of differences involving difficulty, such as pain and hurt involved. In order to measure these different levels one would have to have experienced them all at different times to be able to compare and judge which is a larger degree of pain on the scale. If one was in recovery it would be hard to say that the new one was either more painful or less painful as they would have already hardened their heart in the healing process. To me it is like comparing which tires ride nicer, the new tires you just had put on your car or the old tires just removed? Considering that you are comparing older worn tires to brand new tires, it is not a fair comparison, so to make it more fair, you need to try and compare the memory of the older tires when you first got them to the new tires to make things more fair.

This is just my take on the question.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Lila said:


> Again, your mileage may vary, but I'm a very confident woman, extremely secure in my marriage (i.e. no trust issues here). It may be my primative mind working, but when I watch my hubby harmlessly flirt with another woman/women, I think "ladies, you can smile and bat your eyes all you like but that sexy, charismatic man is ALL mine." Honestly, at our age (late 30's) flirting is more about reigniting those "I’ve-still-got-it" feelings, which reinforce our attractiveness to each other, which makes sex that much sweeter.


But isn't the problem here that the OP knows this is not true. At least once in the past, some level of flirting was enough that she isn't just his.

Once that seed takes root, it becomes very hard to trust her in other situations. You see a great marriage except for this - he sees this and wonders what else she lied to him about. What you see as harmless flirting, he may now sees as part of a problem.



> My marriage is a good one and I would probably be confused and hurt by my husband's actions, but I stand by my position. I would consider the entirety of the marriage before making extreme decisions. I would immediately seek Marriage Counseling to help regain the trust in the marriage.


All reasonable. But I don't think anyone can really consider the entirety of their marriage until a lot of questions are answered and some trust is reestablished. For him to give their good marriage any weight, he needs to trust that it was in fact a good marriage.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> All reasonable. But I don't think anyone can really consider the entirety of their marriage until a lot of questions are answered and some trust is reestablished. For him to give their good marriage any weight, he needs to trust that it was in fact a good marriage.


:iagree:
Agree with this. Many on here, thought they had good marriages when asked, but if their spouse was asked the same questions would have anti rely different answer.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Yes, I believe there are different levels of affairs. They are all painful and each level may be too much for a person to get over. There are different levels of dying. You can be slowly tortured or quickly ended with a bullet in your head. Either way you are dead.
> 
> A person who experienced a long term PA/EA may wish their spouse had a ONS, a person whose spouse had a ONS may wish their spouse had an EA instead of getting physical even one time. They are all bad, but the deeper the emotional involvement, the worse it is in my opinion.


:iagree: Plus the longer the affair the longer the betrayal and level of deceit. All are bad but yes some are worse than others.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Polygraph. You need to know what you are actually forgiving to be able to move on. This will just eat away at you otherwise.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Polygraph. You need to know what you are actually forgiving to be able to move on. This will just eat away at you otherwise.


:iagree:

Exactly!

13 years of concealment, it's the least she can do!

ETA: Oh and expose to POSOM's wife.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Yes, I believe there are different levels of affairs. They are all painful and each level may be too much for a person to get over. There are different levels of dying. You can be slowly tortured or quickly ended with a bullet in your head. Either way you are dead.
> 
> A person who experienced a long term PA/EA may wish their spouse had a ONS, a person whose spouse had a ONS may wish their spouse had an EA instead of getting physical even one time. They are all bad, but the deeper the emotional involvement, the worse it is in my opinion.


Mr John Adams
What an erudite and searing post. You nailed it. 
In the end what we are talking about is betrayal - a ONS or an ongoing EA. You thought you were 'the one'. You thought in the female sense that you had a 'protector' and in the male sense someone who 'had your back'. Turns out you didn't. 
Either way you are dead. What you had is gone forever, like the snows of last winter. 
I also agree with your take on emotional involvement. My WS had a 12 month long EA with an OW and a ONS with a different OW so I feel I am reasonably qualified to comment on the level of pain. I could write the book about EA vs PA.

The EA hurt far more if there are to be 'levels' when it comes to betrayal. 

Thank you for your wisdom and my kind regards to Mrs John Adams.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I don't know if I believe that there are different levels, as much as there are different types or groups they fall into. Levels indicates to me degrees of differences involving difficulty, such as pain and hurt involved. In order to measure these different levels one would have to have experienced them all at different times to be able to compare and judge which is a larger degree of pain on the scale. If one was in recovery it would be hard to say that the new one was either more painful or less painful as they would have already hardened their heart in the healing process. To me it is like comparing which tires ride nicer, the new tires you just had put on your car or the old tires just removed? Considering that you are comparing older worn tires to brand new tires, it is not a fair comparison, so to make it more fair, you need to try and compare the memory of the older tires when you first got them to the new tires to make things more fair.
> 
> This is just my take on the question.


Sheesh Squeakr, Tall Average Guy and Mr John Adams to whom I have already responded:
You guys are simply on fire. 
I cannot add any more to what you have said Squeakr but in terms of levels of pain, trouble is that OP is doing both at the same time, her original ONS years ago and flirting with OM 13 years later which exposed her original ONS, all on the same day. 

Where are you Broken414? I'm concerned. Just know that what we are all writing about on here - the pain - we know only too well and know what you are going through. It's hell.

So please do check in and say hello at least, just so we know you are OK.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But isn't the problem here that the OP knows this is not true. At least once in the past, some level of flirting was enough that she isn't just his.
> 
> Once that seed takes root, it becomes very hard to trust her in other situations. You see a great marriage except for this - he sees this and wonders what else she lied to him about. What you see as harmless flirting, he may now sees as part of a problem.
> 
> All reasonable. But I don't think anyone can really consider the entirety of their marriage until a lot of questions are answered and some trust is reestablished. For him to give their good marriage any weight, he needs to trust that it was in fact a good marriage.


Tall Average Guy. I couldn't have put it better and flirting is and always will be a very grey area. Among singles flirting plays a very important role - an unspoken language. As a single man you spy someone who takes your fancy and zoom in as it were. As a female we do just the same, maybe not so much the zooming in as being approached. When we are approached by someone who doesn't appeal we send them on their way mighty quickly and hopefully with some decorum. When we are attracted? Well that's a different story.

But then, moving into the zone of 'marrieds' flirting. It cannot lead to anything right? Well at least it shouldn't. 

I have witnessed a spouse standing there alone in a corner while their beloved partner didn't even notice since they was so busy chatting up someone. I don't mean talking - I mean flirting - body language gives it away in an instant. 

I have also witnessed spouses chatting with others but glancing over with a watchful eye at their spouse, obviously rather taken with someone. 

I have witnessed both spouses doing the same, both flirting and both quite unaware of where the other spouse was - enjoying it all as it were. 

It is such a grey area I wouldn't even want to try and say what is acceptable and what is not. 

However, when the flirting did lead to something once upon a time such as a ONS in this case then the 'grey area' becomes very clear indeed. 

Think of an alcoholic. They are not even allowed to have one drink. They can't. They have proven it time and time again. 

In this case OP's wife wasn't able to resist OM's approach, ESPECIALLY given that he was a secret OM. Rather than a 'hi' a wave then get the hell out of there, it got to the point of him wanting her to come to his room for a chat. And her husband was right there at the party. And what if he wasn't? 

In my case, if I were WS, I would have laid eyes on my former ONS with horror and felt so much shame. I don't think he could have gotten within 5 miles of me. I'd have probably grabbed my husband, told him I felt sick and needed to go home. 

Broken414, from what you have said I think your marriage can be saved. But you need to be very firm. You need to feel 100% secure from now on. Nothing less will do. You need the 100% truth of anything that has happened in the past because it will haunt you if you don't know it. Your gut will tell you if you are getting it. 

You can also tell WS that when at parties in the future you expect her to behave as you do, a loyal and faithful husband. And not as in this case that such was her flirting you were prompted to check her texts the next day. Not on! 

You are the father of her children and a faithful husband. 

STAND TALL.

And again please do check in. 

PS Thnks again Tall Average Guy!


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Anomnom said:


> I'm sorry that you're going through such pain. I think talking of divorce and leaving are very extreme though. Whilst I understand the feelings of betrayal you're having and that she has broken your trust, you said the marriage has been pretty good and she's a good mother, two very big reasons to try to work through this, not just leave and destroy everyone's lives, yours, your kids and your wife's.
> 
> An affair is an affair yes, but there are different levels..emotional attachment, love, purely physical, one off, etc etc, none of which are ever acceptable in a marriage but if it was a completely meaningless, stupid one off thing over 20 years ago, it certainly isn't the same as if she had a 10 year love affair with someone and she lead a double life type deal.
> 
> If you can't communicate openly with her anymore, get some outside help (counseling) to see if you can forgive her and trust again, then make decisions after you've both done everything you can to save the relationship. It was a lifetime ago, which in no way excuses it, but as you said, you have had a good relationship til now, don't throw it away based on what random strangers online are telling you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Please go into counseling with her. From your op, it sounds like she is committed to you and regrets her stupid mistake. If you can believe that she hasn't had any other affairs and has been a good wife, and mother, I would encourage you to try to work through this. You do have a right to your anger and feelings of betrayal though.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Broken414 said:


> can a woman change? I am not the same person I was 13 years ago.


Have you ever cheated on your wife ??? 
Regardless it doesn't matter on her end.. Morals and Loyalty are the one thing that are not suppose to decrease. Just quite the opposite they should go up !! Kid, long standing relationship, Knowing where you stand with someone,ETC..ETC..




Broken414 said:


> Does being drunk make a difference.


Are you now making excuses for your *ADULT* wife ?

I've been drunk numerous times over my 47 years on this planet. There have been several times I swore I would never do it again after puking up what felt like my lower intestines.. 

But I remember it all.. The good and the bad.. I remember the funny moments and the ones where I was crawled up in a ball by the toilet clutching a towel as my best friend begging for it to stop. 

Please don't make alcohol the excuse. Yes alcohol does things but it just doesn't make people that stupid.. 

It doesn't mean you toss the baby out with the bath water either.. 

It means you make sure what she tells you is true.. Validate and Verify.. 

This guy should no longer exist to the both of you.. 

She sits down with you tells you this was the only time and you either believe it or not.. 

If you believe it the both of you work to fix this.. Eventually she will tell you *"OH MY GOD, it was 13 years ago. I was young and stupid"*.. 

So you address those sort of statements ASAP.. So you call her out on them before she even brings it up.. 

Eventually they try to downplay it and make you feel like *YOU'RE* making a* BIG DEAL* out of it..

Don't be tricked by this sort of game play..

I will tell you from personal experience.. Unless you find out this is 1 of 10 other ONS.. Save the marriage.. Straight and Simple...

I all said and done I would have rather hoped my Ex wife could have been "fixed" or look to "fix" herself then end up the way we did. 
But I know today that divorce was the best thing for me and my kids even though I didn't see it then, because of how broken she was.. Again I would have taken fixed over divorce, but sadly it wasn't going to happen for me..


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

They just kissed = they had sex. 

Its classic cheater speak. 

If you are going to try to forgive her and extend the gift of R especially since you have 3 young kids, you need and have the right to know what exactly you are forgiving her for.

Her actions lying about this for so long and her actions at the wedding do not speak to a person being completely honest. The reek of TT.

If I where you I would demand a poly. Sorry you are here.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> Yes, I believe there are different levels of affairs. They are all painful and each level may be too much for a person to get over. There are different levels of dying. You can be slowly tortured or quickly ended with a bullet in your head. Either way you are dead.
> 
> A person who experienced a long term PA/EA may wish their spouse had a ONS, a person whose spouse had a ONS may wish their spouse had an EA instead of getting physical even one time. They are all bad, but *the deeper the emotional involvement, the worse it is in my opinion*.


*That is why in my opinion, that emotional affairs are so much more damaging than the physical ones, more especially ONS's! It is preeminently at the emotional level where affairs have the marked ability to erode the very foundation of what is or was a committed married relationship.

The latter physical accoutrements of sex, much as in a marital relationship, is preemptively there to physically "bond together" whatever vestiges that the emotional affair has created in getting the cheating parties to emotionally stray in the first place!

Nothing more ~ nothing less!*


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Are There Different Levels of Affairs?*

I'd say this is pretty fcking bad:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...air-sister-law-ruined-family.html#post9157746


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

HarryDoyle said:


> It doesn't matter when the affair was, to you it just happened. My ww had a two year affair 25 years ago. I just found out on D-Day. I tried to tell myself it was a long time ago, but that didn't help much. To me it just happened, if fact even worse in a way because my wife has forgotten or blocked most of the details (her memory isn't all that great anyway unless it concerns something I did wrong). If indeed that's all she's done during your entire marraige, that may be of some comfort. My ww cheated again 25 years later, so I gained no solice in the fact it was so long ago.
> 
> Make sure your WS knows that to you, it just happened. WS's trend to want to put the whole thing behind them because it's "in the past". They need to know that ain't going to happen.


Oh Lordly!!

-sammy


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

tdwal said:


> Not **********.


Or sammy...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

barbados said:


> *They just kissed = they had sex.
> 
> It's classic "Cheater-speak."*


*And I would take it that they thought that they were being absolutely truthful with you whenever they, in fact, told you that "they had only kissed!"

The only possible omission or misrepresentation of fact might possibly be that of informing you as to what actual parts of their physiological anatomy was actually used in executing "the kiss!"*


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