# It makes me sad making her sad



## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Hello,

I have come to terms with myself and decided that seperation is the best / logical course of action.
Unfortunately after 15 years it is not as easy as it seems.

Ever since my waking up started in June we had several arguments (they are no fights) which became more frequent and longer. Today I finally admitted that I am not in love anymore. She is important to me but I cannot find the words to describe in which way (partly because I don't know myself). She had been there for 15 years - this is most likely the main driver for this feeling. And now it is over.

Now she is sad. And I hate to see her that way but I cannot bring myself to ask her to finally move out. Which makes the situation even sadder. I know I should make a clean cut but I am not yet there. That is also depressing.

We text and talk to each other about normal day issues but there is always this underlying tone of "What did I do wrong?"/"How can I make things better?"

I cannot bring myself to truthfully reply to the first: "Basically nothing you can be blamed for. You were yourself and I did not see this at first and then I did my best to deny the truth to myself. Now I understand. And this cannot be healed"
The correct reply to the second question would be "Nothing".

Seperating is so damn hard. You feel like a total looser because you know what to do but you just postpone the inevitable because you don't want to be sad and don't want her to be sad. But keeping on doing nothing keeps both of you sad anyway.

Sorry for whining. But there's not really anyplace else where I could express this.

Regards

asdfjkl


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Why should she move out if you're the one who wants this?


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Because this would be the better solution for the children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Is she the mother of the children? 

If so why is it better if their mother moves out?


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## depressedandexhausted (Aug 24, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Is she the mother of the children?
> 
> If so why is it better if their mother moves out?



Why does it matter if she is the mother of the children when it comes to whether or not she moves out?

A child needs both parents equally. I cant stand it when people say a child should be with their mother more than their father. I provide more care and love for my kids than their mother has in years. My other child's mother abandoned her kid. 

As for your situation, it is hard my friend. But I commend you for not finding another person and leading her on. It gets harder before it gets better. As for asking her to leave, if you rent who's on the lease, if you own who's on the mortgage. If your not legally married it should be fast unless your both on a deed. Maybe writing a letter would be the best action.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

depressedandexhausted said:


> Why does it matter if she is the mother of the children when it comes to whether or not she moves out?
> 
> A child needs both parents equally. I cant stand it when people say a child should be with their mother more than their father.


Do you know what I cannot stand? It’s when a person just jumps to conclusions and goes on a rant about their conclusion….


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

No it will not be better for the children. Divorce your wife and move out. See your kids as much as the courts allow you to do so. If she is a stay at home mom, then she may be entitled to alimony. Let her know you want a divorce, and she needs to get lawyered up.

I understand you are not happy, but it's not her fault. Be honorable with the woman that gave you two kids and a step daughter. You don't get to decide who keeps the children. You may think your wife is not intelligent, but the courts decide whether she is a fit mother or not. From what I got from your posts, she isn't unfit. 

Take care of yourself and make a happy home for when your kids visit you. Set her free as well. She needs to find someone that loves her for her and not for her brains or lack of them. 

You need to stop being sad for what you can't change. For you, the love was never there. It will most certainly not come back now. Your marriage is broken beyond repair when there is no love left.

Bibi


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

You are married 15 years and wanting to divorce b/c you argue?

Please grow up. If that is your only problem, consider yourself lucky. Stop whinging and focus on your children. Next week, perhaps after some sex (get a babysitter), you will feel better.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200902/the-marriage-map


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

I don't understand why she is the one that has to pack her stuff and leave when she doesn't want this at all. If you want it, then you can pack up and leave her. Besides, she doesn't have to move out until a divorce is finalized if she didn't want to, so it would be easier if you just left. Do you have kids together? Would you be kicking your kids out too?


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> You need to stop being sad for what you can't change. For you, the love was never there. It will most certainly not come back now. Your marriage is broken beyond repair when there is no love left.
> 
> Bibi



I know. Thank you. It helps to read this again (no irony here, I really mean that)

To the others:
Sex is not a Problem. But everyday I feel guilty that I am to weak to object to it because she would cry.

As to moving out:
I never said I want to kick her out: I stated that I want "to ask her to finally move out." One of the two logical consequences of asking is that the request may be denied. This would lead to me moving out instead - of course.

I would never kick the kids out, neither my own nor my step-daughter. Why should I? I think they are better of with me. 
I never said I will deny my wife to see them. She could visit them, they could visit her whenever they please. 
The relationship between my wife and myself is broken. I don't want to breakt the other bonds.

asdfjkl


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Why are the kids better off with you than with her?


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Why are the kids better off with you than with her?



Among other things: 
I am emotionally stable and reliable. 
I don't have a problem with alcohol (I don't drink because I never found anything that tastes good).


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> Among other things:
> I am emotionally stable and reliable.
> I don't have a problem with alcohol (I don't drink because I never found anything that tastes good).


Is an an alcoholic?

Unreliable?


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Is an an alcoholic?


Not quite, but sometimes dangerously close. 



> Unreliable?


Sudden shifts in behaviour. 
Standards do change from one week to the next.
Unpredictable reaction to standard situations.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Hmm, this is one of those cases where I really wish we could hear both sides of the story.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> I know. Thank you. It helps to read this again (no irony here, I really mean that)
> 
> 
> *I understand. I wasn't being sarcastic either. When love is gone, it's time to hit the road.*
> ...



Of course you don't want to break the other bonds. These are your kids too. You love them. You need to be in their lives as much as they allow and work on winning back the trust that you will never leave them. They love both of you, even if you separate. 

Stop having pity sex. That's terrible. She thinks you still love her because that might be the way she views sex with you. You stated on another thread that sex is a weapon she is used to using. She will not stop unless you put an end to that. 

Are you sure you never loved her, or are you rewriting history?

Bibi


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Yesterday I was pushed into telling her everything. I thought I could never bring myself to do it, but I did.
She does not want to move out, so I told her I will go. It is breaking my heart to hurt the four people that matter something to me. But I cannot pretend anymore. 

I don 't know if I can survive until next Friday, the day I will move out. (my sons have a few exams next week and my wife odes not want to disturb them during this phase, school vacation starts Friday).

I am now at my desk trying to keep myself together - failing miserably.

I understand that I am not capable of having the emotions normal people have. I just want to be alone. 

It is just so sad. I hope it becomes better with time. But I believe it is the only way.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> Yesterday I was pushed into telling her everything. I thought I could never bring myself to do it, but I did.
> She does not want to move out, so I told her I will go. It is breaking my heart to hurt the four people that matter something to me. But I cannot pretend anymore.
> 
> I don 't know if I can survive until next Friday, the day I will move out. (my sons have a few exams next week and my wife odes not want to disturb them during this phase, school vacation starts Friday).
> ...


Sadly yes, it was the only way. If you feel sad and too overwhelmed at times, please see your doctor and get meds. Find a therapist and get individual counciling as well. You are going to need it. Take care of you in order to be a stronger, healthier father to your kids. 

You have to be very honest with yourself and your feelings. You are in a bad place. You shouldn't have any trouble getting professional help. 

May you find peace and contentment in your near future,

Bibi


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Thank you.
I have new therapy scheduled to begin on Thursday. The free counseling is over because the issue of seperation had been decided a few weeks ago.

I am not sure if I am doing the right thing but I just want to be alone. I don't want to interact with anybody. At the same time being alone is kind of scary.

My wife is understanding but she does not really understand what I am going through. 

And I am not sure if I understand my problems in the first place.

Interestingly writing this down here helps to sort myself. 

I just feel sad all day. My wife insists that I don't need to move out. But I have to. It may be that in a few months I will see that this was a mistake but I sincerely doubt this.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Dude you sure are very emotional for a guy? What is your Myers Briggs personality type if you know(and don't mind disclosing)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> Thank you.
> I have new therapy scheduled to begin on Thursday. The free counseling is over because the issue of seperation had been decided a few weeks ago.
> 
> I am not sure if I am doing the right thing but I just want to be alone. I don't want to interact with anybody. At the same time being alone is kind of scary.
> ...



Journaling helps a lot. That is one of the things I have kept from when I was in therapy. You say you want to be alone. Does this include your kids too? Are they at an age where they don't need dad as much and you feel that they no longer need you? Do you feel left out of their lives? 

Bibi


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Dude you sure are very emotional for a guy? What is your Myers Briggs personality type if you know(and don't mind disclosing)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a pretty accurate quick quiz to see what type you are. Vocational Personality Radar Test


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> This is a pretty accurate quick quiz to see what type you are. Vocational Personality Radar Test


I'm totally guessing but ISFJ? or ESFJ?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> I'm totally guessing but ISFJ? or ESFJ?


If you're talking about me, you're good . ISFJ.


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Usually I keep my feelings all to myself. The anonimity of the board and voicing my feelings in a different language help. The fear that someone close to me could identify me here is minimal. I am a bit ashamed of a few things I did and hence wrote but I need to be honest to myself and to you. Otherwise I would both mislead me and you but most importantly I would betray your trust and earnest will to help.

SecondTime: result is ESTP

I do not quite agree with the resukts. 
A) they don't feel right (weak evidence, I know)
B) I had personality tests for my last two jobs and both yielded the same results which are not fully aligned with your test after two hours and actually over 300 questions each.

I can dig them out of my e-mail archive but I am not at work right now.

Maybe I will start a journal. There are already so many things from the past few weeks that have been important but I can't remember them correctly or think of them when I need them in order to get to some conclusion or other.

As for the kids, I don't feel left out by them and I hope to spend time with them. They are extremely important to me. I am looking for a three bedroom flat in the same city so that they can come over any time they feel like it (ages: 14, 16, 24)

Thanks again to all of you


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> Maybe I will start a journal. There are already so many things from the past few weeks that have been important but I can't remember them correctly or think of them when I need them in order to get to some conclusion or other.
> 
> As for the kids, I don't feel left out by them and I hope to spend time with them. They are extremely important to me. I am looking for a three bedroom flat in the same city so that they can come over any time they feel like it (ages: 14, 16, 24)
> 
> Thanks again to all of you


The reason I asked about the kids is that my first XH felt no one at home needed him that much anymore. The kids were 12 and 16 at the time. Mom and dad were annoying to them, and their focus shifted to spending most of their free time with friends and girl/boy friends. I was used going out with girlfriends most of the time since XH was far from being the social type. I am a social butterfly (for lack of a better term) and hate staying cooped up at home. 

It turned out the poor guy was depressed. Didn't seek medical assistance until 2 years later, when drinking and affairs were not enough. Add to that that his kids were too busy being teens to want to spend too much time with needy dad. He had it rough, but now enjoys a great relationship with our adult kids. Loves his grand kids to death. 

You will get to a healthy, happy relationship with your kids. But be prepared to get dumped for friends or significant others in their lives. It's normal for teenagers.

Bibi


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

I expect that they will hate me or at best be disappointed in the beginning because they will feel abandoned or left behind. This is, unfortunately true because there is no other way. 

I will be there whenever they feel like it and I hope that after a few weeks/months they will begin to understand that I could not do anything else. I am trapped by my problems and would just take the kids down with me in the long run if I stayed. 

I actually hope that they will have occasions to turn me down for friends, hobbies or dates  this's would indicate a normal life for me.

This high price is one of the things why it took me so long to understand. The human capacity for ignoring and pushing things aside is tremendous.

Even now I do not know if I am doing the right thing. But I feel trapped at home, unable to feel happy. Always needing to defend everything.

To be fair, my wife has reduced her complaints drastically but i am pretty sure that she does this out of fear of loosing me. On her inside she most likely hates it. This conviction on my side again makes it unbearable to enjoy any of this newly acquired 'freedom' and it does not remove the feeling that all happiness 
is sucked out of me in the house we had had build.

All that will be sorted out a bit better once I spoke with my new councilor (btw She is an American working in Germany  ) my first session will be two hours.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> I actually hope that they will have occasions to turn me down for friends, hobbies or dates  this's would indicate a normal life for me.
> 
> *I agree.*
> 
> ...


I hope she is a Great fit for you...Like a nice old pair of comfy shoes:smile2:

Bibi


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

asdfjkl said:


> Because this would be the better solution for the children.


In what universe would the stay at home mother for these kids' entire lives be the best option to move out away from them?

I thought you were selfish in your other thread. This cinches it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

asdfjkl said:


> I
> I never said I want to kick her out: I stated that I want "to ask her to finally move out." One of the two logical consequences of asking is that the request may be denied. This would lead to me moving out instead - of course.
> 
> I would never kick the kids out, neither my own nor my step-daughter. Why should I? *I think they are better of with me.*
> ...


Seriously?

Let's just be honest here. You think she has the brain of a Neanderthal and is beneath you. That is why you are divorcing. She's not smart enough or exciting enough. You deserve better. So - of course - the kids would be better off with a SMART person.

Sheesh.

I hope they aren't growing up with your self-absorbed attitude.

To be fair, I understand divorcing if you're incompatible. Just don't make this about her being less than you. It doesn't make you look like a nice person.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

asdfjkl said:


> It is breaking my heart to hurt the four people *that matter something* to me.


Is English a second language for you?

ETA: I see that it is. Just so you'll understand why I asked, the common phrase in English is 'the four people who matter MOST to me.' Not 'something,' which indicates you can basically do without them, they aren't that important.


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

turnera said:


> Is English a second language for you?
> 
> ETA: I see that it is. Just so you'll understand why I asked, the common phrase in English is 'the four people who matter MOST to me.' Not 'something,' which indicates you can basically do without them, they aren't that important.


Thank you for the clarification.

I did not know about the correct meaning of the phrase i used. I wanted to convey that they do matter. But the idea was to explicitly fall short of matter most.

There are two people that matter most to me, my sons.
My step daughter matters to me, but not most. She's 24 so she'll not be a deciding factor i my actions.
My wife matters to me - only I wish I knew how. But at the moment I think I can do without her. Although I am not a 100% sure about that. That makes everything so sad.

And I do know that I hurt the ones that love me with my behaviour but I do not see a way out.

Classic definition of a dilemma: Two alternatives that are really bad:
a) stay and get more and more depressed and in due course hurt the people that lave you even more
b) leave and hurt the people that love you in the hope that they will understand and things might get better in the futere

Sometimes everything just turns south on you 

Regards

asdfjkl


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How old are your sons?


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

14 and 16


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

It's better to leave in order to do damage control. 

There is a slight problem though, reconciliation becomes difficult when the couple is apart. 

Many times separation leads more towards divorce.

It's a tough situation to get through any way its handled. It's a long haul whichever route is taken.

Bibi


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