# For those in counseling, has your spouse ever done this?



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

TWICE in the past day, he's taken words/ideas/concepts from our therapy and gotten all high and mighty, using it to correct me or point out what he thinks I'm doing wrong. Nothing could be MORE infuriating because all it does is make me lose hope that even counseling can help us---and it defeats the real purpose of counseling!!

He did it last night:

"This is what came up in C's office last week; you need praise."

-->Well sure I do, sometimes; but the point isn't to accuse me of that as a CRIME; it's to respect that need with compassion and meet it *sometimes,* (Also...the way I brought it up wasn't in a "PRAISE ME!!" tone. He had teased me about my "experimental" style of cooking dinner, and I asked him if he liked it...this is how he responded. In attack mode.)

Then this morning:
"I am being CONSCIOUS!" (Our therapy is all "conscious couplehood.") 
"I'm CONSCIOUSLY making YOU aware of what YOU are doing right now to make things worse."
--By definition, consciousness looks inside oneself and takes responsibility, not OUTward at the other person as the problem.

*I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME. PERIOD.*

I am certain it will take us further down the path of power struggle and competitiveness. 

In THOSE MOMENTS, though, I get sucked in...

I KNOW he's not being fair, so I try to get us back on track with productive communication, and things get worse.

Then I get frustrated, feel upset, and cry, because in that moment, I need a connection from him...but he is in NO position to show that connection...and his apparent distance just makes me feel lonelier in those moments.

So HOW do I...

...follow the advice I keep hearing?:

"Lead by example."
"Don't engage when he's not fighting fair."
"Don't let 'it' get to you."
"Let him know when he's ready to 'get out of the sandbox' (thanks, unbelievable), you'll be happy to discuss it nicely."

I have to change what I "NEED" in the moments:

*Instead of needing to "fix" the problem and bring about peace with HIM, maybe I have to find peace in my own heart...and give it to myself, by trusting that even if HE can't provide it for me at that moment, he will come around in his own time...HOW DO I DO THIS when I KNOW that reconciling with my husband is exactly what will make me feel better ABOUT OUR RELATIONSHIP, after a conflict???*

He IS capable of communicating productively and actually being more "conscious," and I've seen him do it...but* in moments of conflict, I need to see that from him, and that is precisely when he cannot do it, so I lose trust and faith that he ever will again.
*

Yup, I know that lack of trust and faith that he can/will grow with me is something *I* have to own and work on...but trust is earned...

I feel like I have to give without wanting anything in return...because that's what love is.
Give what I hope to receive.
Love and have faith that love will come to me. Yes, I do know he loves me, but when he feels "pushed," he is less loving; he thinks in a contractual, tit-for-tat kind of way, instead of generously.

In some ways, I feel like I have to be the "bigger person," but I don't feel like the bigger person when he acts like this.

Help, any advice???


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Honest to God, my current self-therapeutic statement I repeat over and over to myself is:

"He's a scared little boy. Show him how to love."

over and over and over again...

Feel free to believe I am nuts.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> TWICE in the past day, he's taken words/ideas/concepts from our therapy and gotten all high and mighty, using it to correct me or point out what he thinks I'm doing wrong. Nothing could be MORE infuriating because all it does is make me lose hope that even counseling can help us---and it defeats the real purpose of counseling!!
> 
> He did it last night:
> 
> ...


That is YOUR version of the point. Was the POINT brought up in counseling? To HIM needing praise may seem like a silly thing to need. Maybe HIS point is that you should get over needing praise.

I would bet a dollar that BOTH of those things
- you need praise and he should recognize that need
- you should try to recognize that it looks needy to someone who does not need constant affirmation.



> (Also...the way I brought it up wasn't in a "PRAISE ME!!" tone. He had teased me about my "experimental" style of cooking dinner, and I asked him if he liked it...this is how he responded. In attack mode.)


I don't know what attack node is. The flip side is if you are always b*tching at him about his joking style, HE probably feels attacked. It doesn't sound to me like you try to understand HIS perspective. He wants you to understand (other thread) that he is just kidding. Can you do that? It seems to me you insist that he see your point of view without your being willing to try to see his point of view.



> Then this morning:
> "I am being CONSCIOUS!" (Our therapy is all "conscious couplehood.")
> "I'm CONSCIOUSLY making YOU aware of what YOU are doing right now to make things worse."
> --By definition, consciousness looks inside oneself and takes responsibility, not OUTward at the other person as the problem.


Did you calmly mention that? How is he supposed to tell you if he feels that you are doing something wrong? 



> *I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME. PERIOD.*
> 
> I am certain it will take us further down the path of power struggle and competitiveness.


One or the other of you has to give that up first. 


> So HOW do I...
> 
> ...follow the advice I keep hearing?:
> 
> ...


Learn the art of the time out. When you feel your emotions getting out of control, say "I am giving myself a time out before I say or do something unhelpful." And walk away. Lock the door if he presses. Practice the sentence to yourself so you don't have to think when it is time to use it.

[quote[
I have to change what I "NEED" in the moments:

*Instead of needing to "fix" the problem and bring about peace with HIM, maybe I have to find peace in my own heart...and give it to myself, by trusting that even if HE can't provide it for me at that moment, he will come around in his own time...HOW DO I DO THIS when I KNOW that reconciling with my husband is exactly what will make me feel better ABOUT OUR RELATIONSHIP, after a conflict???*

I am going to say something that I hope does not offend you. The sense I get from the posts of yours that I have read is that you want HIM to resolve his issue wrt to your point of view, but you don't want to see his. Is there something superior about your wanting praise to his wanting to be able to joke around? 

I realize he is no prince. But it seems to me you are both really entrenched in your own PoV. Scared to lose yourself in the process of trying to open up to his PoV and needs maybe?

He asked you to try to understand that he was just joking. Ask yourself. Can you understand that? Can you look at that behavior and not get sensitive? Can you get in the habit of a witty comeback like if you don't like my cleaning, do it yourself ya douche. Said jocularly? It would be a hard habit at first!





> I feel like I have to give without wanting anything in return...because that's what love is.
> Give what I hope to receive.


That is not my version of love. But really what you SHOULD be doing is giving what HE hopes to receive. Then maybe he can start giving you what you want to receive.



> Love and have faith that love will come to me. Yes, I do know he loves me, but when he feels "pushed," he is less loving; he thinks in a contractual, tit-for-tat kind of way, instead of generously.
> 
> In some ways, I feel like I have to be the "bigger person," but I don't feel like the bigger person when he acts like this.
> 
> Help, any advice???


Don't push him.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Honest to God, my current self-therapeutic statement I repeat over and over to myself is:
> 
> "He's a scared little boy. Show him how to love."
> 
> ...


Not nuts. But a bit confused. What makes you think YOU know more about how to love than he does? You just know what YOU think love is. You also have to come to learn what HE thinks love is.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

@vt, thank you very much. I'm not offended, I need to be empowered to make some changes and see what's in MY power to change or do.

"Give what HE hopes to receive."

I think what he wants to receive is simplicity, acceptance and lack of questioning when he says something (like a joke).

Can I do that? Can I take a joke? I did, the other day, with the housecleaning stuff...I'm learning his language; I laughed it off.

I do try to see his point of view.
Basic message: "I tease out of love."
I believe the fight wouldn't have gotten so bad if he had just SAID that, instead of becoming critical of MY needs and, yes, MY cooking--"Sometimes it's good, sometimes it isn't."

I can handle teasing and his honest opinion--it just needs to be balanced out and delivered within a relationship of overall appreciation, affection, and ACCEPTANCE. That's what is missing. 

So we're in therapy, trying to build some of that foundation, I guess. 

Bottom line--the real problem is much more foundational than the surface comments.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

And yes, I did calmly mention that consciousness means looking inward and not projecting onto the other person.

I want to believe he knows that's true.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i do understand, MC is hard....it is just a whole new way of thinking, and talking...
its very different and its too easy to run back to old habbits, its like a drug, and sometimes one will go overboard with the "new rules".

my h and i havent been to MC, but we did a lot of "therapy" type work, dont engage, the only thing i did differently was i took YOU out of my vocab,pretend ypu have flash cards, on the is DONT DO THE DISHES, and DOSENT SWEEP, my fav DOSENT DO ENOUGH WITH THE KIDS... the word that goes in front would be normaly YOU, but say i and hold up a card..

.....DOSENT DO THE DISHES, becomes........ "I" dont do the dishes...

so we self taught and couldnt afford MC this was before it was deemed important....

so i think from my personal experience...its just going from one to another and back again. its like there are different voices going on, and with the new voices comes new rules...everyone needs time to adjust, try talking about what new rules you would like to keep and what are things that could be amended.

in doing so, it would bring you closer, and you would bond on a sort of rebellion...not to much, but it will make him feel as though you let him in on a secret.

all the new taticts are not to be followed to a tee, they are ideas if one isnt working stop, pick another rule to follow, what worked for us was not engageing, taking you out of vocab, seeing me through his eyes looking at me as he would, and stop trying to do it all, i dont have to do that.

just talk and decide things together, you are married to eachother, make decisions about MC what you liked what you didnt what you would like to try, this might make him pay a little more attention at sessions, if he knew his input was valued later....

sorry its long..it didnt start out like that...wish you well, breath sometimes


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

Hopefully between you two and the counselor someone can figure out why he is teasing all the time instead of once in a while walking into the kitchen and saying mmmdamn that smells good honey!
We all go overboard once in a while, just gotta draw the line back in the sand where it used to be and put things back on an even keel.

Now, can I hear about the_"experimental" style of cooking, _ I love new stuff and I promise not to tease


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

@chefmaster, he does sometimes walk into the house with a big smile and says mmm smells good.

It's just that none of the "good things," the progress we're making in counseling...is consistent.

Nice, sweet, thoughtful, complimentary, positive for a little while...and then back to me feeling unimportant to him.

We are a roller coaster--Look at my posts for the last 3 months.

I'm beginning to feel depleted of energy and depressed. 

@chefmaster, I'll be happy to share my ideas with you when I'm not feeling so blah.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

have you told him point blank, straight forward, real talk, you dont like it?? 
if so, its cont, maybe hes what i call my h sometimes, a smart-mouth, or i say ok smart-ass, i got your...... whatever he said, it defusses the situaiton a little and turns it back on him.

i come from a long line of tell me how you really feel, and smart-mouths, and my h used to be really hurt by some things i would say, i told him i would work on it, but its been that way all my life, my mom is really...well she will stick it to you. i just explained to my h its love and i would not call out anything mean or super-cruel just for a laugh, and he better get in on this too. we constantly rib eachother, but when it goes to far, he will let me know and i back off, and say im sorry.

i think the question you are asking is it just good natured poking, and you fee if you got in on the action, he would turn into a meanie, and say you cant do that, and couldnt take it as well as he can dish, and it would result in a blow-up??

only you know the answer to that, but for thoes of us who joke, we cant be the funny one its room for two people with the funny, and i dont mind little fun poke, but i will return the favor.

its about balance, there is stuff i cant call out in public, he told me very detailed, and stuff that i cant call out at all, so we have rules, i wold suggest reading some joke books, or watching comedy central, and picking up some funny from the stand-ups...
hope this make sense, it did in my head....


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Like I said, it's not joking or teasing I have a problem with.
We can totally joke with each other and I can tease him too.

The real problem for me was NOT the joke itself...it was how he answered my question when i said: "Haha, very funny...so do you like dinner or not?"

He immediately got defensive and said "WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN C'S OFFICE. YOU NEED PRAISE!"
-->to me, that is attack mode; refusing to answer my question and pointing something out like it's a personality flaw.

In other words, I'm willing to laugh off a joke if he's willing to clarify sometimes and say "honey, i'm just teasing; yes, I liked dinner, it was yummy."

To me that sounds like a reasonable compromise.

I've teased him before too, and I remember one time it bugged him, so I gave him a big hug and said, "Baby, I was just kidding, I think it's cute that you did xyz."


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

This has been sort of an issue with me an my wife too in MC, and yes, MC is hard. 

We are both hurt about what the other person has done before, so even the slightest hint of that is a really big deal. Even if you didn't mean to hint at it. I think it will get better, but the feelings are still very raw. 

Be very deliberate in the way you communicate. My wife and I get in trouble when we have a difference of opinion, even if its something dumb. Anytime we have a difference of opinion I've been saying that I want to show her I love her no matter whose opinion we are going to go with. I really have to preemptively and deliberately say that I want her to feel loved and listened to in this situation until she trusts me more.

Keep being constant. Stop the conversation if you think its going to go poorly. Say that you didn't mean it that way and your sorry or specifically say that you are feeling like you don't know what do say next to show him what he needs.

Hopefully if you lead by example, he will also be very careful about the way he talks to you. Its going to take time for both of you to learn. Best of Luck.


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

anx said:


> I've teased him before too, and I remember one time it bugged him, so I gave him a big hug and said, "Baby, I was just kidding, I think it's cute that you did xyz."


You drew a nice line in the sand here, then you wiped the line away and said just kidding!



When you are at that point where you just cannot take it anymore don't even respond to the teasing, change the subject and draw the line. This might not stop the initial teasing but it may likely stop the follow-up remarks that are hurting so much.

It's expressing to him the line got cloudy, you're irked and he needs to show you love. If he's anything like he sounds(I read a lot of the previous threads) he will respect it(not because he has to but because you have given him a lil shock) and he will bounce right back.

One of the reasons what he is doing is important is because he's mixing things up. If he came home and said 'Yea honey dinner is great' for 20 years you would likely not believe him and also be bored out of your gourd. I know you don't mind the teasing most of the time but when you become serious he is not respecting that and taking it too far.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Tired, headache....but we feel better after therapy today.
Here's to the steady uphill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Exhausting, isn't it?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Quite.
I want to wave a white flag with big letters reading;
"make love, not war."
he, on the other hand, is more interested in being right, proving a point, defending himself, and fighting to win.
I know I don't want our marriage to roll like that.
I hope that my awareness that this is where he is right now will help me NOT participate in immature arguments, and will help us have less of them,
the ridiculousness of what happened twenty minutes ago is so laughable and not worth the stress, Id rather just laugh these things away, and grow up past this crap.
I'm going to resist the temptation to bring up this last tiff later, and chalk it up in my own mind to exhaustion and stress----which he won't admit----but it doesn't matter.
It was SO dumb, it's not worth bringing up again unless it comes up again...
Deep breath. Again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like you dread the sight of him.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Sometimes.
But not most of the time.
When we are smooth and happy, we have fun and enjoy life together.
I only post questions when I feel discouraged.
It's been a rocky week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Try as best you can to avoid "head above water happiness"

Your level of elan and good spirit simply cannot depend on what he does - or does not do.

I wish I had a nickel for everytime I saw an attractive young woman on a cell phone talking about "what would happen if he doesn't,,,,,"

Seems these ladies are in a continuing crisis.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, I hear your warning...I won't settle for constant crisis or "head above water happiness."
For now, we are aiming for peace and stability. Give us some weeks and months of that, then we'll see...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Yes, I hear your warning...I won't settle for constant crisis or "head above water happiness."
> For now, we are aiming for peace and stability. Give us some weeks and months of that, then we'll see...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you looked at the book by Richard Schwartz?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

No, what book is that?


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