# Wife travels a lot, sex life has stalled, worried - help!



## Shamwow

So...Been married 6 years, dated for 2 prior. I'm 34, my wife is 36. She travels for work, and the times vary from month to month based on her contracts. She started traveling about 4 years ago, and it's always been 5-7 day stints, maybe once a month. The last year or so the lengths have grown, and after a massively long stint a few months ago (10 weeks!), she came back feeling "changed". Not about "us", she said, just overall. She was super affectionate though the first couple days, but since then she has withdrawn and spent lots of time alone listening to music, staying up late, etc.

Only being home for a few weeks before leaving again, I did everything I could to remain calm, give her space, yet still try to initiate and show her physical affection in many different ways. Each time I've been shot down, given the response "I'm just not feeling it right now", or something along those lines. She also said she wished I'd been more aggressive the second she got home, after not seeing her for so long. Also have heard "It's never really been our thing". Ouch. I know we've had times where things slow down over the years, but we've always picked right back up and had good times in that department.

The night before leaving for another 2 weeks I tried to initiate (mainly to prove my interest, want to give space, but she needs to know my desire too, right?) and she kinda chuckled and said "No. Sorry. I'm just not that attracted to you right now." Double ouch. I asked if she could explain. She said not really, just not feeling it at the moment, and can't force feeling attracted to someone. I get that, I respect her, I didn't argue. Just said that will change, and that I wasn't worried.

Since I've known her I've always been somewhat overweight, maybe 20-30 lbs. She's always been thin. (we always diet together and work out, but it's usually shortlived on both ends). We like to go out to eat, party a bit, it's always been part of our social life. Recent years she's put on maybe 10 pounds and then last year we both packed on another 20 or so, going overboard too much (food and drink, midnight pizzas, etc). We both knew it had to change and talked about it a lot.

When she came back from her long trip a few months ago, I had gained more weight and she had lost some. I was feeling depressed, and I suppose a little intimidated. Could she sense this lack of confidence (a real sex drive killer on both ends)? I figured so. That day I went to the gym and signed up for 12 weeks of personal training and started that day. In the last 6 weeks I've lost 45 pounds and am feeling great (prob 20 to go). We still have not been intimate, but she says she's amazed at what I've done. Intimacy is "better" on a general basis, giving backrubs and kisses lately without her seeming distant, but I feel the longer we go without real intimacy the harder it will be to rekindle.

Feel like we're on the brink of losing our connection for good. Unfortunately I am suspecting some kind of (at least) emotional affair on her end, as the day she came back she was different toward me. Also she's been super sensitive about getting in great shape, body waxing, tanning, etc...and yet she won't touch me. Yeah, I know. Sounds bad, looks bad. She says she's doing it for me, for when this gets better, and that she's trying really hard and would never cheat, so don't worry, all will be fine. Realllly want to believe her as I always have. But for the first time I'm scared my wife is considering an affair, as I've never felt this level of detachment from her, and it's only been the last 6 weeks out of 8 years. Trust me, trying to project calm and not let on any over-insecurity I may feel, while still trying to express my feelings to her...is not easy. She doesn't like to "talk things to death", so it's kind of an actions-are-more-important-than-words situation right now.

We're "getting along" and generally affectionate, but the easy familiarity we had for 8 years came to a sudden stop. With her traveling so much, how can I constructively work on building intimacy again? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. She's always been mine, and I knew it wholeheartedly. Now I'm on shaky ground and don't want to make anything worse, only want to improve from where we are, because it feels like time is of the essence. Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening...


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## starbrite

Shamwow said:


> So...Been married 6 years, dated for 2 prior. My wife travels for work, and the times vary from month to month based on her contracts. She started traveling about 4 years ago, and it's always been 5-7 day stints, maybe once a month. The last year or so the lengths have grown, and after a massively long stint a few months ago (10 weeks!), she came back feeling "changed". Not about "us", she said, just overall (her job was somewhat dangerous, involving weather). She was super affectionate though the first couple days, but since then she has withdrawn and spent lots of time alone listening to music, staying up late, etc.
> 
> Only being home for a weeks before leaving again, I did everything I could to remain calm, give her space, yet still try to initiate and show her physical affection in many different ways. Each time I've been shot down, given the response "I'm just not feeling it right now", or something along those lines. She also said she wished I'd been more aggressive the second she got home, after not seeing her for so long. Also have heard "It's never really been our thing". Ouch. I know we've had times where things slow down over the years, but we've always picked right back up and had exciting times in that department.
> 
> The night before leaving for another 2 weeks I tried to initiate (mainly to prove my interest, want to give space, but she needs to know my desire too, right?) and she kinda chuckled and said "No. Sorry. I'm just not that attracted to you right now." Double ouch. I asked if she could explain. She said not really, just not feeling it at the moment, and can't force feeling attracted to someone. I get that, I respect her, I didn't argue. Just said that will change, and that I wasn't worried.
> 
> Since I've known her I've always been somewhat overweight, maybe 20-30 lbs. She's always been thin. (we always diet together and work out, but it's usually shortlived on both ends). We like to go out to eat, party a bit, it's always been part of our social life. Recent years she's put on maybe 10 pounds and then last year we both packed on another 20 or so, going overboard too much (food and drink, midnight pizzas, etc). We both knew it had to change and talked about it a lot.
> 
> When she came back from her long trip a few months ago, I had gained more weight and she had lost some. I was feeling depressed, and I suppose a little intimidated. Could she sense this lack of confidence (a real sex drive killer on both ends)? I figured so. That day I went to the gym and signed up for 12 weeks of personal training and started that day. In the last 6 weeks I've lost 45 pounds and am feeling great (prob 20 to go). We still have not been intimate, but she says she's amazed at what I've done. Intimacy is "better" on a general basis, giving backrubs and kisses lately without her seeming distant, but I feel the longer we go without real intimacy the harder it will be to rekindle.
> 
> Feel like we're on the brink of losing our connection for good. Unfortunately I am suspecting some kind of (at least) emotional affair on her end, as the day she came back she was different toward me. Also she's been super sensitive about getting in great shape, body waxing, tanning, etc...and yet she won't touch me. Yeah, I know. Sounds bad, looks bad. She says she's doing it for me, for when this gets better, and that she's trying really hard and would never cheat, so don't worry, all will be fine. Realllly want to believe her as I always have. But for the first time I'm scared my wife is considering an affair, as I've never felt this level of detachment from her, and it's only been the last 6 weeks out of 8 years. Trust me, trying to project calm and not let on any over-insecurity I may feel, while still trying to express my feelings to her...is not easy. She doesn't like to "talk things to death", so it's kind of an acctions-are-more-important-than-words situation right now.
> 
> We're friendly and generally affectionate, but the easy familiarity we had for 8 years came to a sudden stop. With her traveling so much, how can I constructively work on building intimacy again? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. She's always been mine, and I knew it wholeheartedly. Now I'm on shaky ground and don't want to make anything worse, only want to improve from where we are, because it feels like time is of the essence. Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> So...Been married 6 years, dated for 2 prior. I'm 34, my wife is 36. She travels for work, and the times vary from month to month based on her contracts. She started traveling about 4 years ago, and it's always been 5-7 day stints, maybe once a month. The last year or so the lengths have grown, and after a massively long stint a few months ago (10 weeks!), she came back feeling "changed". Not about "us", she said, just overall (her job is scientific, in safe but potentially dangerous environments). She was super affectionate though the first couple days, but since then she has withdrawn and spent lots of time alone listening to music, staying up late, etc.
> 
> Only being home for a weeks before leaving again, I did everything I could to remain calm, give her space, yet still try to initiate and show her physical affection in many different ways. Each time I've been shot down, given the response "I'm just not feeling it right now", or something along those lines. She also said she wished I'd been more aggressive the second she got home, after not seeing her for so long. Also have heard "It's never really been our thing". Ouch. I know we've had times where things slow down over the years, but we've always picked right back up and had exciting times in that department.
> 
> The night before leaving for another 2 weeks I tried to initiate (mainly to prove my interest, want to give space, but she needs to know my desire too, right?) and she kinda chuckled and said "No. Sorry. I'm just not that attracted to you right now." Double ouch. I asked if she could explain. She said not really, just not feeling it at the moment, and can't force feeling attracted to someone. I get that, I respect her, I didn't argue. Just said that will change, and that I wasn't worried.
> 
> Since I've known her I've always been somewhat overweight, maybe 20-30 lbs. She's always been thin. (we always diet together and work out, but it's usually shortlived on both ends). We like to go out to eat, party a bit, it's always been part of our social life. Recent years she's put on maybe 10 pounds and then last year we both packed on another 20 or so, going overboard too much (food and drink, midnight pizzas, etc). We both knew it had to change and talked about it a lot.
> 
> When she came back from her long trip a few months ago, I had gained more weight and she had lost some. I was feeling depressed, and I suppose a little intimidated. Could she sense this lack of confidence (a real sex drive killer on both ends)? I figured so. That day I went to the gym and signed up for 12 weeks of personal training and started that day. In the last 6 weeks I've lost 45 pounds and am feeling great (prob 20 to go). We still have not been intimate, but she says she's amazed at what I've done. Intimacy is "better" on a general basis, giving backrubs and kisses lately without her seeming distant, but I feel the longer we go without real intimacy the harder it will be to rekindle.
> 
> Feel like we're on the brink of losing our connection for good. Unfortunately I am suspecting some kind of (at least) emotional affair on her end, as the day she came back she was different toward me. Also she's been super sensitive about getting in great shape, body waxing, tanning, etc...and yet she won't touch me. Yeah, I know. Sounds bad, looks bad. She says she's doing it for me, for when this gets better, and that she's trying really hard and would never cheat, so don't worry, all will be fine. Realllly want to believe her as I always have. But for the first time I'm scared my wife is considering an affair, as I've never felt this level of detachment from her, and it's only been the last 6 weeks out of 8 years. Trust me, trying to project calm and not let on any over-insecurity I may feel, while still trying to express my feelings to her...is not easy. She doesn't like to "talk things to death", so it's kind of an acctions-are-more-important-than-words situation right now.
> 
> We're friendly and generally affectionate, but the easy familiarity we had for 8 years came to a sudden stop. With her traveling so much, how can I constructively work on building intimacy again? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. She's always been mine, and I knew it wholeheartedly. Now I'm on shaky ground and don't want to make anything worse, only want to improve from where we are, because it feels like time is of the essence. Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening...


Sounds like she consummated the affair during that ten weeks. She is upping her sex rank for that other person or persons. You guys say you party a lot. Does she party while she is on the road. Does she travel with a group of men? Do you know who they are?

You are going to have to research this to see if she is in an affair. It sounds like it. If there is an affair, then you cannot reconnect with her until that ends.

So you have not been intimate for months!? Yet she is sexing herself up. This is a smoking gun. She giggled at you in you wanting to touch her. So that tells me she thinks she has a really hot guy now and you just do nothing for her. She is laughing at you about it. Again, maybe it is not a hot guy but a hot life style she is into.

Her comment about you not being aggressive tells us she has had sex with an Alpha male who ravages her and makes her feel like a woman. She is looking for more passionate sex and you are not giving it to her. You are too worried about losing her and you are no being Alpha enough. She is getting that somewhere else now it seems. If by some miracle she is not having sex with someone else she has told you what she expects from you adn you are not doing it.

Ok, so I think at the very next opportunity you need to flat ravage her. Be agressive. Take her. Show urgency. Get lost in her. Do not hold back. Rip her panties off of her. I am not saying be violent. I am saying be so urgent that you seem to lose all control over yourself. You must have her. You must have her now. No Beta lovey dovey stuff. Just give her raw heated passionate I must have you now sex. Do her where ever. Then after wards you can be all cuddly.

read this blog / book

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/


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## Shamwow

Entropy - Hard to hear it so straight, but it's pretty clear to me too. She does party on the road, as do I sometimes. And yes, she works with other men. I know most of them, but certainly not all. Never been concerned because we always had such a close connection at home. It was obvious she was loyal. But yeah, I realize that as a husband it's a pretty bad situation to be comfortable with her going into on a regular basis. Would love to go back a couple years and address that. (though I do travel out to visit her regularly...just not able to be with her every day she's gone)

So clearly she knows I suspect something, from our conversation about all the body improvement yet no sex for me, since she felt the need to say she wouldn't cheat. I was calm and firm that anything like that would be unacceptable...but of course she's on the road again now and I can't get a clear picture of what's going on.

So how to find out for sure? Hesitate to call any of her coworkers because I don't know them "that" well, don't know what the story is and they may know more than they let on and lie. Then of course she would get the scoop that I'm checking up...not sure if that's good or bad? I'd rather just know, instead of her knowing that I know. Then I'd have some hand in the situation.

Or maybe I should book a ticket tomorrow? Don't wanna be that guy, but wouldn't want to drop an ultimatum and be wrong (even though it sure seems the odds arenn't in my favor on that one).

Agreed - Totally plan to ravage her, and am on that boat for when she gets back...her lack of sexual respect needs to be addressed, and her needs do too. (Though if I find proof she's having an affair, not sure I'd wanna give her the pleasure of me even being here when she gets back.)


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## Stonewall

All the signs say shes stepping out. Start figuring out how your'e going to deal with it. You'll have to decide if you want to salvage it or end it. Develop a plan and follow through.


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## PHTlump

You need to find out whether she's having an affair. Check her email/Facebook/cell phone records. Is she calling or texting one number too much and/or at the wrong times? Put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car. Put some spy-ware on her cell phone that will forward you all her texts, let you listen to her calls, and record her GPS movements. Maybe hire a PI to do some of this while she's out of town.

Odds are, she's having a physical affair. If she is, you have to decide whether you want to continue or not. Since you didn't say anything about kids, I assume you don't have any. That makes divorce a pretty easy option. But, if you want to reconcile, you need to change yourself to ensure you're not vulnerable being victimized again.

You're already working on your physical appearance. That's great. Either your wife will be more attracted to you, or you will be better prepared to get back on the dating scene. You also need to be preparing yourself mentally and emotionally. Read up on Married Man Sex Life and the 180 at Marriage Builders® Discussion Forums: Divorce busting 180 degree list .

The 180 is designed to shock a disloyal spouse back to reality and pull them back to the relationship, but it also prepares the betrayed spouse to leave the relationship with as much dignity as possible and be better prepared for future relationships.


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## Shamwow

Yes, I have seen suspicious email and phone activity lately. I don't monitor her email, but I have seen a few sitting open on her computer recently that have given me an idea of who it may be. Checking phone bill shows many texts to that same person (though she texts tons of people...I think she may be addicted to her phone). I can't get into her phone as she lately keeps it closely guarded and locked with a passcode (for "work"...yeah). Of course, didn't notice that aspect of her behavior until I had reason to be suspicious.

Wow I'm screwed here. Should've seen this 10 miles out. But like I said, the affection was always there so I felt no need to distrust her. Like to think I'm a pretty smart guy, but clearly made some stupid moves in terms of enforcing boundaries with my wife in the last few years. She needed to know I could walk at any time, and that I wouldn't just be happy taking care of the house and making sure the bills are paid on time. But...whatever all of that means, if she's doing this to me, she is ultimately the one at fault and I have to just get over it and get out before she sticks me again.

If she is having a physical affair, I'm out. She knows that. And I will stick to it. Probably why she didn't just tell me she was cheating the other day before she left. Her ability to travel for work so freely would be limited, as no one would be taking care of her life back home. Of course I don't "want" to leave, cause I am still in shock that my "sweet girl" has turned into a totally different person who seems to be completely indifferent to how I feel, and is probably losing respect for me every day I don't call her on it.

Which is why proof is important. Suggestive emails "I do dig you and care about you, okay?", "hope you're emailing me because you enjoy my company, not just cause you're bored", etc are proof of an EA, but when confronted she will deny (something like "he had a bad day, was just saying something nice, just friends") and I have no hard comeback to that, esp to prove it is truly physical.

So maybe a PI in whatever city she's in is the way to go? Seems creepy, but at least it would be an anonymous third party, I would know I can make my decision to walk without any guilt of "not doing all I could". If she has really done this, I will not pretend it can be made better. If she is teetering and has not consummated anything, I still will probably have to walk, at least for a while, as I feel I can't trust anything she says now...she would have to prove over a long period of time that she deserved my trust again, and that would include her coming off the road and working at home again. As cold as she is lately, she will probably cut me off in the middle of my ultimatum and say she wants a divorce. So I'd like to preempt her if I can and at least bring consequences for her actions without me playing the victim.


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## Shamwow

She also has a female work friend she used to work with about a year ago with that she texts all the time...back then she told me that this friend of hers was in an emotional affair and was considering cheating on her husband. Perhaps they text and talk so much because she sees her as a safe sounding board for her own desires/schemes to cheat. I don't know that friend personally though, so I'm guessing she would stonewall me and stick to my wife's story if I were to contact her. Wish I could count on someone being honest with me, besides me (and all of you, thanks!). This is all very new to me, to not trust a word my wife says leaves me feeling pretty isolated.


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## Scannerguard

I am going with the consenus here.

Women don't respect you until you play hard ball so I would figure out how you are going to start winding up and place a hardball up around her eyes and inside to get her attention.

Yes, that "giggle" is a giggle of disrespect.

Suggestive emails are enough coupled with the lack of physical contact is enough for me.


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## PHTlump

If she has already left, then get a PI. If she hasn't, you can look on Youtube and find out how to crack her phone password in 10 seconds.

Also, start talking to lawyers today. Plan for the divorce. Once you have the proof you need, you want to be ready to pull the trigger.

Check out DadsDivorce.com: Divorce Advice for Men and Fathers | Men and Divorce for information tailored to men divorcing.


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## Shamwow

Wow. She is out of town right now...Just called her hotel and asked for the room of the guy I suspect she is cheating with. No one by that name. Tried the hotel next door...they said "one moment please, I'll put you through". I hung up when they transferered me. So he is there in town with her for NO VALID REASON. He's not working with her, he's just visiting my (now soon to be ex) wife.

Also on a hunch called the airline to "request an upgrade" for her flight home. Her flight leaves two days earlier than she told me and it is NOT coming home. She is heading off for a weekend without me, clearly with him. Help me guys, how can I nail her the hardest on this without coming off as a lowbrow victim? Should I even confront her, or just not be here when she gets back? She'd probably deny it if I confronted her, even in the face of this evidence of infidelity and complete lack of respect.

The house is in her name, and it's underwater...can I just walk and leave her to deal with it? We live in a no-fault state, so what do I need to consider in terms of divorce plans? Does infidelity even matter in a no-fault situation? I don't want to give her a dime. I'm guessing she's spent a couple grand putting this together already (clothes, lingerie, hair extentions, waxing, etc). Want to be calm about this, but also feel so much rage that I want her to feel serious pain as a result of this. She used to always tell me how smart I am. Clearly she lost sight of that and either is being very sloppy because she's in fantasy-land now, or just plain doesn't give a s**t. Most likely both.

If I flew to her getaway next weekend she would probably laugh in my face at this point, as she obviously doesn't care one bit about me or how this makes me feel. Wouldn't want to be victimized again. Really want to punch him in the neck though...not to get her back, clearly she's already gone, and with a PA I won't stand for hanging around (though is the information I mentioned considered evidence of the affair, or is it circumstantial? Do I need a PI to get pics of them walking hand in hand, kissing or entering hotel room together, or what?)

I know he's married. Pretty tempting to call his house and ask his wife if I can speak to him...maybe find out where he's gone to "on business". Wonder what he told her. Really hard to not start meddling and eff up his life too. But once again, want to calm down before doing anything.

Really hurting here, can't eat, can't sleep, don't want to work, keep finding more things she lied directly to me about. Have now talked to my closest friend about what's happening (he recently went through this with a longtime gf), and have an appt with a therapist tomorrow morning to get myself straightened out. 

Any recommends on PI service?


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## the guy

IMO the more evibence the harder the pervurbiale slap in the face to her when you confront.
I would get the PI, costly but very effective when confronting. They are state lic. so what ever state she is travaling in you will need to hire one in that state.

Right now you have good evidence but it all can be explained as "just friends" and an apoligy for lieing, not sleping around.

Stay strong I believe confrontation is most important so do not let on that you are investigating her, she can take it deeper under ground and cool off the A.

So with that said take the proof you have or gather more, confront wife, the expose to OMW. The reason I elect to confront 1st is b/c you then can get an idea if your wife want to continue the A, if she does continue A then you can expose to OMW....leverage if you will in stopping the affair.

If PA is for sure a deal breaker then expose to OMW 1st with the proof you have and then sit back and watch the fireworks. Well don't sit back, pack you stuff and leave her with that upside down house and leave with out saying a word.


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## PHTlump

Sorry for the results, but I think that's pretty iron clad. Trust me, you don't really want photo or video of them in your bed.

The first step you need to take is to get to a divorce lawyer ASAP. Tell him that you want to crush her. He will know every trick in the book. Also, check out the link to the divorce forum above. Those guys probably know tricks your lawyer doesn't.

Ask your lawyer about the best timeline for your actions. He can tell you whether you need more evidence before you confront, when to tell the other man's wife, etc.

I don't recommend flying to confront her. That just adds the cost of a last-minute plan ticket to your divorce. You can communicate your knowledge just as effectively with a text message.

And you do want to tell the other man's wife. She deserves to know as much as you do. But, not until your lawyer agrees that you're ready to file. Until you file, you play dumb and keep your mouth shut!

But first, get thee to a lawyer!

P.S. You should also open a safe deposit box and possibly an account in your name only that your soon-to-be-ex doesn't know about. Keep tax returns, bank statements, car titles, and maybe cash away from your STBX.


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## Scannerguard

No! No! No!

Strongly disagree with last poster. . .why not just go into an attorney's office and say, "Here. . .I'd like to hand you $20,000 all for nothing?"

The truth is, if you divorce, the outcome of your divorce is pretty much pre-determined. . .you may be able to negotiate a little better here or there, but not by much. You don't want a hawk for a lawyer, you want a dove, someone who knows negotiation.

Let's back up here before we come bringing in the hired guns.

This is more for the divorce part of this forum or divorcing. . .are you absolutely sure you want to divorce if this is true? The funny thing about divorce is is that it rarely cures the reason why you got divorced in the first place. While I think I can offer a lot of good guidance to men going through divorce, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

That being said, once confirmed, I do think infidelty is certainly good grounds.

I can coach you on the rest but honestly, step back and take a breath, and really be sure about this.


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## Shamwow

Don't want a long drawn-out ugly divorce, just want her to feel some serious pain too. Maybe it's just in the effect of how I let her know I'm leaving. And when it is proven (or she admits) that she had a physical affair, then yes, I will have to leave. Tried sticking around once with an old ex gf after a PA she had and it ended up killing my self-esteem for too long, felt weak to take something like that. Yes this is my marriage, but can't imagine ever feeling right after this. And can't imagine she'd even try to reconcile, considering how cold she's been to me lately. But I guess I'll have to find out.

Whether or not I have to file for divorce right away is a different story I guess. We have no kids, and we have some retirement accounts, but nothing massive. The accounts are in our own names so it should just be a matter of splitting up the crap and me moving the hell out.

Sorry this has turned into an Infidelity thread, and now a Divorce thread. Truly did start out as worried about flagging sex life. Unfortunate new details in the last 24 hours...


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## Scannerguard

Shamwow,

Okay, 

A. Calm yourself a bit. Really get some more solid confirmation before you make a big life decision like this.

B. As far as "making her feel pain", trust me - with divorce, pain is inevitable, whether you make an attempt or not. This is whether you are the "leaver" or "the left." Your goal should be an equitable and fair outcome, not to exact revenge.

C. You may want to at least make a gesture of reconciliation - offer for her to go to counseling. She will more than likely say no but at least it gives you a bit of moral high ground. But when you make the gesture, I think you should really mean it. Many couples are able to overcome infidelty.

I think the problem though is what she seems to be doing isn't "impulsive."

Guys will generally forgive a woman for infidelty if their wife acts on an impulse, because they can kind of understand sexual impulses. Women don't forgive (and stats play this out) men for infidelty because they don't understand the idea of being impulsive.

However, this seems to be almost blatant disregard from where we are sitting, not impulsive.

Divorce is very much like a war and there is an Art of War and having the moral high ground does mean a bit in war. I prevailed pretty well on my divorce but it wasn't by being mean or even being nice. It's just a matter of being a good negotiator and knowing your rights/what you are entitled to and sticking to your boundaries.

Yes, a good attorney is still necessary, but hardly the lynchpin in the process.

I am honestly hoping for reconciliation.


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## Stonewall

I agree with scannerguard but guard your emotions in the process. Don't come across as needy, maintain your dignity. Yes I know that's hard but just do it. In the end you will feel better about yourself that way!


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## morituri

You can also send one of her pair of panties or thongs she brought back from her business trip, to have it analyzed for semen. No greater evidence will you possess that she has been having a PA than confirmation of traces of semen in her undergarments.


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## Soccerfan73

Lawyer up. No matter what option you choose, cover your own ***. Nobody else will.


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## Shamwow

Thanks everyone...I know, the last couple days I've gone from calm and hopeful to insane, then calm, then just hurt, then insane again. My good friend that I talked to did a lot of good in getting me to stop thinking about just jumping to conclusions/making rash decisions, getting revenge, etc, that will only make things crazier (and make me seem crazier). If I'm somehow wrong (which at this point I can only be wrong about the level of the affair, she is certainly attached to him), I wouldn't want her to have the satisfaction of thinking she did the right thing because I clearly turned out to be crazy anyway. Does that make sense? I'm not, btw. This is all so out of the blue.

I suppose I could grab a pair or two of panties when she gets back and have them analyzed...makes me sick to think about though. Either way I feel I have to know for sure, and I really don't believe she would tell me the truth if confronted, so I need some means of truth-getting...

So you think I should play it cool when she gets back, meanwhile discussing options with a lawyer, and then decide how to drop the bomb on her when the time is right? I'd like to have some kind of simple papers at least in the house before she gets back though, because if she comes back and tries to hit me with it first I will lose the one small piece of hand I have (emotionally, not realistically), if I could walk into my office and come back with something that says "Gotcha first", that would at least give me some more confidence in trying to be calm while she lies to my face. Does something like that exist? Yes, I sound weak when I say that, but I go from anger to weakness pretty quickly these last few days. It is shifting more to anger though...

That said, she will probably not say a word about it, and it will sure be hard to pretend I can stand to be in the same room with her, all the while she's thinking she pulled one over on her hubby (I probably will be "extra busy" with work all of a sudden, lots of office time - unfortunately I work at home). But I think I can handle that for a while. At least doing some of the 180 tactics should keep me from revealing any desperatation or hurt as it creeps up, as well as feel better about my position...but I so wanna drop the bomb.

So I can be patient and seek professional advice first if that seems like the best tack from an outside perspective. Hard to be the one on the inside of this mess. But I'm guessing everyone here knows a bit about that...thanks for your continued support all.


----------



## the guy

You make complete sence in the fact that you don't want to be the crazy one, also you don't want to be the bad guy.

She will for sure make you out to be the bad guy/crazy one to family and friends. That is also another great reason to have proof.

You can show others the real reason way the marriage has broken up. In fact if you do decide to fight for the marriage, proof will help you get added support from family and friends. Proving that the dynamics of the marriage is realy being effect by an affair. 

She will for sure rewrite the history of the marriage to make her self look better, so what ever proof you have now and what you get later on, keep it very safe.


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## morituri

Let me clarify a misconception about the 180 degree rules. The true purpose of the 180 degree rules IS NOT to end your wife's affair and have her recommit to marital reconciliation. The true purpose of the 180 degrees is to give you enough emotional strength so you can get to the point of moving on with your life, with or without your wife. In short, the 180 degree rules IS a personal empowerment tool NOT a relationship manipulation tool.

The misconception about the true purpose of the 180 degree rules is because its successful implementation many times brings a curious side effect. On a fence sitting spouse - torn between the AP (affair partner) and the spouse - will often panic because he/she is no longer in control when their betrayed spouse is moving forward with his/her life with out him/her. The betrayed spouse is now the more attractive choice for the unfaithful spouse and he/she often ends the affair to regain his/her betrayed spouse. This is an often seen side effect of the 180 degree rules BUT it doesn't happen in all cases.

No matter what the outcome of the marriage, the betrayed spouse is in a win/win situation for it gives him/her control of his/her life back and the emotional strength to make wiser choices.

P.S. Choose the stickiest panties for lab analysis


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## Entropy3000

OMG, this has sure gotten out of hand since I last checked. Wow.

So this guy would not be with her because he does not work with her. Holy [email protected] He checked into another hotel so her co-workers would not know about it .... possibly.

BTW the fact she had a friend who was thinking about cheating was a very bad thing. 

Sorry to hear all this. I was still hoping that you could have caught this sooner. BUT it does seem now that the ten week trip was very key. They must have hooked up during that one, which means it had been planned earlier and there had to be something going on even before that emotionally.

So the length of the trips have grown over the past year. Well maybe. Maybe she has had extended weeks / weekends for a while.


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## Shamwow

Entropy - yeah, this was clearly planned. She has not covered her tracks well either, so she either wants me to see it and make it easy for her by blowing up at her and giving her an excuse to justify her actions, or she's so caught up like a schoolgirl that she has no idea what she's doing.

I was emptying the garbages today and the one in her office turned out to be a goldmine of hurtful stuff. A card for my birthday (which was last week - and sucked), not filled out, in the trash. Several little to-do lists for this last week or two she was home, with stuff like "Vic Secret" or "Call hotel!!", a rough listing of outfits to wear each day (dates of this trip written right there), what appears to be very high credit card balances listed out (she must've maxed out trying to spend all of OUR money on this excursion - not like I'll be paying anything on her cards though, of course) or my personal favorite "Find two-day trip". Ouch.

Oh...and her wedding ring on her desk. (she had some kind of microderm treatment done last week - wonder how much THAT cost - for which she had to remove her ring, clearly she "got used to it real quick" and wants me to see it sitting there.) Ummm...You guys still think I should pretend to be casual and play dumb when she comes back? 

Agreed on the "other hotel" reasoning being so her coworkers wouldn't know - they're all in "her" hotel.

Can't believe I have to say this about her, but she has morphed into a real B**ch.

Sigh.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Entropy - yeah, this was clearly planned. She has not covered her tracks well either, so she either wants me to see it and make it easy for her by blowing up at her and giving her an excuse to justify her actions, or she's so caught up like a schoolgirl that she has no idea what she's doing.
> 
> I was emptying the garbages today and the one in her office turned out to be a goldmine of hurtful stuff. A card for my birthday (which was last week - and sucked), not filled out, in the trash. Several little to-do lists for this last week or two she was home, with stuff like "Vic Secret" or "Call hotel!!", a rough listing of outfits to wear each day (dates of this trip written right there), what appears to be very high credit card balances listed out (she must've maxed out trying to spend all of OUR money on this excursion - not like I'll be paying anything on her cards though, of course) or my personal favorite "Find two-day trip". Ouch.
> 
> *Oh...and her wedding ring on her desk. *(she had some kind of microderm treatment done last week - wonder how much THAT cost - for which she had to remove her ring, clearly she "got used to it real quick" and wants me to see it sitting there.) Ummm...You guys still think I should pretend to be casual and play dumb when she comes back?
> 
> Agreed on the "other hotel" reasoning being so her coworkers wouldn't know - they're all in "her" hotel.
> 
> Can't believe I have to say this about her, but she has morphed into a real B**ch.
> 
> Sigh.


Major hurtful stuff. I think she got lazy about the whole deal. Too caught up in it to care.

I think you have received good advice form the other posters. I would be tempted to just show up at this guys hotel and wait for her to stop in. But again the smart thing is to just not tip your hand and hit her with the divorce.

Sigh. If she really went to all this trouble and you do not have kids together ... just let her go.

Her continual travel would make reconsiliation pretty rough even if she wanted to.

Find somebody who can be faithful to you.

What is your wife's background? Has she been married before?

She is completely changing herself. She is leaving her old self behind and that includes you as well. This sux.


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## Shamwow

She was married once before - very young, 19, divorced at 22. We met 6 years later. I had never been married, was 25 when we met. Funny thing is, what she's doing to me is what her a-hole ex did to her back then. It'd be one thing if she always was strange like this, or exhibited signs of jealousy about me and other mystery women, but she was always so, well, "sweet". To not give me a heads-up that she was flagging (clearly a while ago, and blown up by the distance) shows that she has a completely shifted personality right now.

Really sorry this is turning out to be such a hard-luck story, all. I was just thinking I needed to spice up our sex life, and the distance was making it harder to reconnect each time she came back, or something.

I will say it feels good to be able to rant every detail here though.


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## Shamwow

Annnnnd there it is, folks...porn. From him. To her email. From just the other day. Is it odd that I actually am almost laughing at this point? F***ing A. And this from the girl that used to ask me if I was masturbating to porn when we'd had a slower patch for a week or two years back. This is actually numbing me out quite nicely, that this extra bit of info doesn't make me feel "sad" right now tells me that this is going to be a strange ride. Maybe 180 while I get things together in the coming weeks will be easier than I thought. Or maybe I'm just spent right now.


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## AniversaryFight

Oh, sorry for being cheated man. Gather information and find the evidence. What if you could fly to that city on those 2 days and get camera with you, take photos of them in the hotel. This might be tricky thou since they might see you.

The best way you could go to that city and hire someone to investigate and take photos, from dinner and when they get into their room. Find the name of the hotel which she is at on those two days. During those 2 days, text calmly her to ask her how is she doing and ask something about the hotel so that she can talk and you might find lies by telling you that she is in the previous hotel . Go check the hotel checkout day to confirm that she lied to you that she was in the hotel while she wasn't. 

At the same time you keep on getting evidence about what is happening in the other hotel of which they will be having sex. told to the lawyer about this and aske whether will ne enough evidence
Goodluck


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## PBear

At what point does all the looking for evidence not matter any more? It's a no fault divorce, so who cares if you've got pictures, video, and a confession on tape? Just file for divorce if that's what you want to do and move on with your life already? 

And yes, to the OP, I realize that you're just finding this out now. I'm speaking more to the posters calling for PI's and more proof. Why throw good money into a bad situation for no reason.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stonewall

yes continue to play dumb. Knowledge is power. Don't give her part of your power!


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## PHTlump

Scannerguard said:


> No! No! No!
> 
> Strongly disagree with last poster. . .why not just go into an attorney's office and say, "Here. . .I'd like to hand you $20,000 all for nothing?"
> 
> The truth is, if you divorce, the outcome of your divorce is pretty much pre-determined. . .you may be able to negotiate a little better here or there, but not by much. You don't want a hawk for a lawyer, you want a dove, someone who knows negotiation.


No! No! No!

Negotiation is always part of divorce. But, it is better to negotiate from a position of strength than from weakness.

The outcome of divorce is never pre-determined. People get screwed over by the system every day. The fact that there are no kids makes things much easier and keep the costs lower, but a lawyer is still required.

The OP should talk to a lawyer and decide what he wants. Then, he needs a plan for getting that from the divorce.

Why do divorces cost so much? Because they're worth it.



Scannerguard said:


> I can coach you on the rest but honestly, step back and take a breath, and really be sure about this.


I agree that the OP should be sure. But he should also protect himself. He has stated several times that a PA would mean certain divorce. The evidence is overwhelming of a PA. So, I assume that divorce is almost assured. That is why the OP should be talking to lawyers. He doesn't have to run up a huge bill, but he needs a professional who can advise him on how to protect himself. And, talking to a lawyer doesn't require that he file for divorce. He can always change his mind and work toward reconciliation.


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## Shamwow

PBear - I agree, I really don't want to know any more than I already do. But as obvious as it all is on paper, I still will have trouble severing ties without something concrete, something that confirms that I can move on with complete justification in my mind.


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## PHTlump

PBear said:


> At what point does all the looking for evidence not matter any more? It's a no fault divorce, so who cares if you've got pictures, video, and a confession on tape? Just file for divorce if that's what you want to do and move on with your life already?
> 
> And yes, to the OP, I realize that you're just finding this out now. I'm speaking more to the posters calling for PI's and more proof. Why throw good money into a bad situation for no reason.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think most of the people advising further investigation mean to discover the pictures of them together, naked, that can't be explained away any other way.

However, judges still have a good deal of leeway in no-fault divorce when splitting assets and determining support. Evidence of infidelity can swing a judgment more in favor of the BS.


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## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> PBear - I agree, I really don't want to know any more than I already do. But as obvious as it all is on paper, I still will have trouble severing ties without something concrete, something that confirms that I can move on with complete justification in my mind.


If that's the case, then you probably have to wait until she gets back. You are looking for pictures, video, or audio of them having sex or discussing having had sex. You should call a PI in the city your wife is in, but I doubt he would have much luck getting that evidence from hotel rooms and taxis. The most they would probably do in public is hold hands and kiss.

So, you should invest in a VAR and put some keylogger software on your computer. It shouldn't take long once she's back for her to give you some solid evidence that will remove any lingering doubts you have.

In the meantime, decide on a lawyer and draw up a plan of action. Have the papers ready to file.

As far as notifying her in the best way, it depends on your state of mind. If you can maintain a calm, amused demeanor, then you may want to serve her the divorce papers yourself. If you are worried you may crack, maybe text her that you want a divorce and she should sign the papers that are on the kitchen counter.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump

Another option, after you have consulted with your attorney, is to confront her directly. Your lawyer may not want you to do this because it will alert her to any preliminary divorce work.

But if your attorney agrees, call her while she's on her trip and ask her if she's sleeping with Mr. X. She may tell you that she is. She may deny it.

If she says she wants to stay married, tell her you will require her to take a polygraph. If she balks, you have your answer right there.


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## Shamwow

Def don't want to see naked pictures...honestly, making out on a dance floor, a kiss in a restaurant, or holding hands in public would be enough for me to confront her with leaving, as everything else adds up to so much more. The rest is obvious. Audio of her talking about sex with him would work too, though I really wouldn't want to hear it.

Still considering PI for this weekend, as it's their "secret" trip. Location is a place where there's lots of night clubs, general night life. I know her flight info, but don't know what hotel she'll be at. And of course hotels aren't supposed to give out guest info, even to spouses, regarding who "will be" staying there that night. I could wait until they're checked in and start calling hotels asking them to put me through to "x" until I found them, but that could be time consuming...not a small town we're talking about here. PI could "pick her up" at airport baggage claim, follow to hotel and then get pics of them while out at night. Then coming back to hotel together. I would need no more than that (unless there was nothing suggestive to report...or if PI says they just shook hands and entered separate rooms for the night, or whetever).


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## Shamwow

And I don't think I'd confront her by showing her pics, etc. I think I'd just confront her that I know, and when she denies tell her I have proof and she should stop covering.

Eh?


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## PHTlump

Then I think the PI is the way to go. They will almost assuredly be making out in public and staying in the same room and the PI can get proof of that.

That way, you can be ready to hand her divorce papers as soon as she walks in the door from her trip.


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## karole

Pack up all her crap and have it sitting in the yard w/ the locks changed on the house. Better yet, just put it in a pile in the yard and let her pack it up. If you don't want the house, take what you want and leave before she gets back. I'm certain she'd get the message. If you have definitive proof, contact his wife.


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## Stonewall

karole said:


> Pack up all her crap and have it sitting in the yard w/ the locks changed on the house. Better yet, just put it in a pile in the yard and let her pack it up. If you don't want the house, take what you want and leave before she gets back. I'm certain she'd get the message. If you have definitive proof, contact his wife.


Talk to an attorney before you do this. You can't do this in many states. We are talking marital assets until a judge decides on who gets what.


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## Shamwow

No worries, don't plan to pack her stuff up...bummer is I work from home and require lots of computer equipment that's all set up in my office, so I'm guessing I'll just take a little time at a hotel (or friend's place) for starters. Hey - odds are she'll be leaving in a week for another month or something anyway, so I can come back and round up my situation then. At least that's where I'm at for now, talking with a lawyer tomorrow to get some perspective. 

Don't necessarily wanna hit her with papers the second she walks in, but I want to be prepared to if advised, or if for some reason she says it first. In that case, then I can grab them out of the desk casually and say, "Sure. Here you go. Hope you had a nice trip."


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## Shamwow

Guys and gals - if your spouse starts traveling ALL THE TIME for work (which is totally normal for some jobs), even if it seems like all is fine when they're home, before you end up where I am make sure to set up some *clear* "loving" boundaries regarding coworkers and social situations, communication standards, travel-home dates and if possible, large chunks of time off in between jobs.

Also, don't do it right away (cause it would be wrong and not demonstrative of love), but have software handy and ready to go, to bug their computer and cell phone the second anything gets weird. Before they are on to your suspicion. If I'd quashed this 8 weeks ago I may have been able to save us. Now that the line has been crossed, I feel I have no choice.


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## PHTlump

I don't recommend leaving for a hotel. If you're leaving, go camping. That will give you a nice break from the drama and it won't set off her spider sense. If you don't care about tipping her off and/or confronting her, then kick her out.

I hope the lawyer gives you some good tips. I kind of like the idea of texting her that you want a divorce and then turning your phone off.


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## Shamwow

PHTlump - I wouldn't tell her where I was going. I would just say I have to leave now. (not sure what the hell I'll say before that yet though) Or I could tell her she needs to leave (heck, she's gone all the time anyway). That might be easier for me, in the short term, but I haven't made up my mind yet.

And that would be after the bomb had been dropped, so no worries about tipoff. I'll prob play it normal when she first comes home and just see how she acts. Unless I have PI proof and can't stand the sight of her. Only the coming days will tell. Monday or Tuesday she will be home, those will be big days for me.


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## Shaggy

She seems to have planned things out very well - including leaving her ring behind. You're still operating under the assumption she thinks she's getting away with it. 

If were you - I would drain all the cash you can get your hands on. She's run up charge cards - cancel any you can cancel. Her debts are your debts and currently you're financing 50% of the all the stuff she is buying for the guy and her affair.

See the lawyer and get the papers drawn up now. You can always decide not to file down the road.

Since the house is her name and it's under water. Walk. It's her debt to worry about. 

Oh, and contact the OM's wife before they get back so she can have her plans in place. 

It's clear you're way late to the party. The fact she made a list of what to wear to seduce him and left it behind is a clear sign you're playing catch-up big time. 

It's time for you to stop following and take charge and take her down while you're doing it.

Oh, and don't forget to call her employer and his. It sounds like they are using work resources and travel to carry on their affair. They both likely have terms in their contracts that make this forbidden. Burn them both.


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## Shaggy

When you do confront her - carry a VAR with you. That way if she does confess you'll have it so she can't recant it.


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## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> She seems to have planned things out very well - including leaving her ring behind. You're still operating under the assumption she thinks she's getting away with it.
> 
> If were you - I would drain all the cash you can get your hands on. She's run up charge cards - cancel any you can cancel. Her debts are your debts and currently you're financing 50% of the all the stuff she is buying for the guy and her affair.
> 
> See the lawyer and get the papers drawn up now. You can always decide not to file down the road.
> 
> Since the house is her name and it's under water. Walk. It's her debt to worry about.
> 
> Oh, and contact the OM's wife before they get back so she can have her plans in place.
> 
> It's clear you're way late to the party. The fact she made a list of what to wear to seduce him and left it behind is a clear sign you're playing catch-up big time.
> 
> It's time for you to stop following and take charge and take her down while you're doing it.
> 
> Oh, and don't forget to call her employer and his. It sounds like they are using work resources and travel to carry on their affair. They both likely have terms in their contracts that make this forbidden. Burn them both.


:iagree:


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## Shamwow

"She seems to have planned things out very well - including leaving her ring behind. You're still operating under the assumption she thinks she's getting away with it. "

Shaggy...are you saying she's clearly left this evidence behind to piss me off, make sure I know? Testing me to see how I'll react? Or is it possible she just plain thinks I'm not going to notice because she's in la-la-fantasy land and all she can think about is the OM?

The ring I think she left to piss me off and make a point. To tell me what I think is okay doesn't matter to her right now. But the other stuff was in the trash, and maybe she wouldn't imagine me reading stuff from the trash? Jeez, listen to me...like *I* would imagine me reading anything from the trash. But where there's smoke there's fire, and everything seems to be a new clue. As odd as the last few weeks have been, hard to imagine she'd leave anything behind and not think I'd be suspicious enough to check it out. I just don't know, she's not acting like my wife, she's acting like a "stand-in", walks and talks like...but *acts* and *reacts* like a complete stranger.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> "She seems to have planned things out very well - including leaving her ring behind. You're still operating under the assumption she thinks she's getting away with it. "
> 
> Shaggy...are you saying she's clearly left this evidence behind to piss me off, make sure I know? Testing me to see how I'll react? Or is it possible she just plain thinks I'm not going to notice because she's in la-la-fantasy land and all she can think about is the OM?
> 
> The ring I think she left to piss me off and make a point. To tell me what I think is okay doesn't matter to her right now. But the other stuff was in the trash, and maybe she wouldn't imagine me reading stuff from the trash? Jeez, listen to me...like *I* would imagine me reading anything from the trash. But where there's smoke there's fire, and everything seems to be a new clue. As odd as the last few weeks have been, hard to imagine she'd leave anything behind and not think I'd be suspicious enough to check it out. I just don't know, she's not acting like my wife, she's acting like a "stand-in", walks and talks like...but *acts* and *reacts* like a complete stranger.


People in affairs do not act like the people we knew. They are in a dreamland. She did not leave this stuff to piss you off. She takes you for granted. She does not care if you find out.


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## Shamwow

Entropy - I hear ya, but clearly I did find out. Question is whether she will care when she knows that. But I guess I have to put that out of my mind and do what's best for me, because she certainly isn't. 

Still wanna go out there tomorrow and suckerpunch this d-bag. Perhaps I could wear a mask and no one would ever know what happened to the poor fellow that night in the hotel parking lot.

Not that she wouldn't deserve something similar, just more akin to her wallet disappearing so she couldn't fly to the weekend getaway without ID. She'd probably ask me to FedEx her passport or something. I could be unavailable, and not receive that message.

Ahhh, revenge. Sounds so sweet, but I know it would do no good. But would be justifiable, and prob make a good screenplay.


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## Shamwow

Note - this all seems so cut and dried right now, but I wonder if it's easier because she's out of town and I'm dealing with this without her around. When she's home next week, how will I react? If she was in the next room while I typed this I would be able to "take my temperature" in a real way. What if I lose my nerve to be so matter-of-fact? Face to face is so much different than having a discussion with myself and inserting what I think she'll reply with. Then again, when she's been here lately it feels like she's out of town anyway...

Just a random thought. Need to steel up.


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## Shaggy

ruin her weekend - call and chancel the "secret" flight


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## Stonewall

Don't let on what you know in a response to an emotional moment. She will become defiant and cold only causing you more pain. Develop the plan first and implement it in a calculated way.

Revenge is a dish that is best served cold!


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## Whip Morgan

Sham-

If you decide to call around to find the hotel and you do, I'd avoid flying out there. Instead, call the hotel operator and say you want to buy a bottle of wine from room service as a gift to be placed I to her room, before she arrives. Ask to have a card left with it, saying it's from you. It should get the message across that you know. It would save you a plane ticket, and confrontations with OMs can lead to bad things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jezza

:iagree::iagree:

Thoughtful bottle of wine in the room. I'd pay to be a fly on the wall to see her jaw drop!


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## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> Note - this all seems so cut and dried right now, but I wonder if it's easier because she's out of town and I'm dealing with this without her around. When she's home next week, how will I react? If she was in the next room while I typed this I would be able to "take my temperature" in a real way. What if I lose my nerve to be so matter-of-fact? Face to face is so much different than having a discussion with myself and inserting what I think she'll reply with. Then again, when she's been here lately it feels like she's out of town anyway...
> 
> Just a random thought. Need to steel up.


You need to be aware that your wife will very probably try to gaslight you when you confront her. She will tell you that the affair was your fault, because you mistreated her. She may invent wild stories of abuse to tell your friends and family in order to discredit you, or she may try to explain away things differently than they actually happened.

For example, if you had an argument a month ago, she may describe it as a monumental shift in your relationship that practically forced her into her affair.

Either way, don't fall for it. Some betrayed spouses start to question their own memories of events and wonder if their marriage really was closer to the hellish nightmare the disloyal spouse describes. The more likely scenario is that your wife wasn't blissfully happy because you had a marriage with real problems, the way real-world marriages usually do, so she started banging other men to cure her boredom.

Assuming you want to divorce, I think the most pain you can inflict upon your wife is to stay calm and tell her that you don't intend on fighting for her because she isn't worth fighting for. Appear excited to get back on the dating scene and start doing your own thing. Her affair fantasy may involve you tearfully begging her to stay or you angrily fighting off the competing man.

And as soon as your timetable for exposure comes around, you have to tell the other man's wife. That could put a serious crimp in your wife's lifestyle right there. If he has to break up with your wife because he wants to save his marriage, well then your wife winds up with squat.

Good luck.


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## Shamwow

PHTLump: "You need to be aware that your wife will very probably try to gaslight you when you confront her. She will tell you that the affair was your fault, because you mistreated her. She may invent wild stories of abuse to tell your friends and family in order to discredit you, or she may try to explain away things differently than they actually happened."


Interesting...have already experienced some of this during recent weeks. When asked about her lack of interest in sex, she actually said "Well, that's never really been our thing." Umm, could've fooled me for the last 8 years. Exact example of rewriting history, and boiling it down to a falsehood designed to hurt me and try to justify her lack of interest.

Will try to keep my memory intact no matter what she says. I'm going to try to listen to what she says and completely disregard that there may be truth in it, and not necessarily feel the need to call her on it. I'll try to just focus on her actions and remember who it is I'm dealing with right now. The "stand-in". If she wants to be honest with me, at this point I think I'll notice the difference.


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## Shamwow

Also, realizing I really need to really focus on my work, as this whole situation has turned into a 24-hr obsession since the discoveries of the last few days. Have to get serious work done, while trying to get my mind and affairs in order for the experience to come next week. Gotta try to focus. Wish I knew how to meditate.


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## morituri

As someone already suggested, present her with the divorce papers IF she lashes out at you when you inform her that you know about her double life. Unless her affair is an exit type of affair, your showing her the divorce papers will hit her like a sucker punch - a hit she wasn't prepared for. Try it.


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## piqued

Shamwow said:


> Also, realizing I really need to really focus on my work, as this whole situation has turned into a 24-hr obsession since the discoveries of the last few days. Have to get serious work done, while trying to get my mind and affairs in order for the experience to come next week. Gotta try to focus. Wish I knew how to meditate.


Do two things today and then put your mind to other things. First, talk to a lawyer. Second, call and hire a PI in the city she is going to this weekend. Give him her name, some pictures of her, her flight information, email, phone #, etc. and tell him you want a dossier and evidence on what she does this weekend and with whom (telling him you suspect an affair). Then, that's it. Just go and do other things. Your lawyer will advise you from here on out, and the PI will provide you (and the court) definitive information by early next week.

It will cost a little $, but it is the right way to handle it. BTW, only confront your wife when your lawyer agrees.


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## Ticonderoga

If you go the PI route he doesn't have to show you the 8X10 glossy's just confirm they are having an affair. He could hold on to the evidence for you or put it in a sealed envelope. If the PI could confirm the affair during the two day love fest you could send them a bottle of wine per previous suggestions.....it would be a buzz killer for them. Plus she will be on the defensive putting you more in the drivers seat. 

Did she buy the house while you were married ??? If so you might be on the hook for the debit even though her name is on the loan just like credit cards. If she bought it prior to your marriage it is her turd to deal with and you are off the hook. Run it by your lawyer.


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## Shamwow

Ticonderoga - probably screwed on the house...we bought it together initially, and then a few years later when we refinanced I had recently become a freelancer, and even though I had more income than she did, the bank required 2 years of income proof if you're a freelancer, so we went with her name only for the new loan (as she had a W-2 employer). So yeah, I 'm guessing the house mess is on both of us. In which case I should probably tell her to leave instead of leaving myself. I'll ask my lawyer tomorrow am


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## Shamwow

What about money she has recently wasted (4-5k, far as I know) on getting ready for her little excursion this weekend? Seriously, a 1400 hair appointment, 500 in waxing, 1500 in lingerie/dresses, plane/hotel, etc, etc, etc...


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## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> What about money she has recently wasted (4-5k, far as I know) on getting ready for her little excursion this weekend? Seriously, a 1400 hair appointment, 500 in waxing, 1500 in lingerie/dresses, plane/hotel, etc, etc, etc...


 Ouch... totally crazy....$1400 for hair - really ?? That bottle of wine would top it all off.


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## Enchantment

So, I've kind of been watching this thread with interest.

How do you know that this weekend would not be the first time that they would be <allegedly> physically intimate?

Why wouldn't you do everything in your power to move heaven and earth to try and prevent this weekend from happening? If it was my spouse, I don't think I could stand to sit around all weekend wondering what they would be up to - I would be fighting for him. Is your wife or marriage really not worth fighting for at all? Have you ever fought for your wife - for her devotion, for her love?

It seems your wife has been tried and hung with a lot of circumstantial evidence (not that it looks good) in a public forum and hasn't had a chance to speak in her own defense.

"_A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion_." ~ Chinese proverb

Wishing you all the best, Shamwow, with whatever course you choose.


----------



## Shamwow

"How do you know that this weekend would not be the first time that they would be <allegedly> physically intimate?"

Enchantment, Good Point. Some extra details to explain why. Apologies if I left some things out during my insane rantings early on. I was still trying to see things all rosy if possible. I must've forgot to mention that in the days before she left I had seen a few emails open on her computer and became suspicious. I had previously (in a kind of joking way at first) expressed concern about the amount of texts and calls she gets and receives, especially if they were mostly from one guy. So she knew before she left that I was suspicious, but I had tried til then to guard it by asking "innocent" questions, hoping for innocent answers. I knew I was worried about her leaving this time (due to all the sexifying of her, yet me being off the radar) and wanted to let her know I loved her and where I stood. We talked the night before she left, and in that talk I confronted her (calmly) with some concerns I had about everything recently (something we had touched on a few times anyway as a result of feeling "off" for the past few weeks).

The reason why I'm not "fighting for her" during this week: Because it has already happened. He is with her right now on her current trip. For no valid reason. He is staying in the hotel NEXT to the one her company is staying at. I found that out by simply calling the first two hotels near hers and asking for his room by name - on hotel number two, they put me through.

The night before she left when we talked I brought up (again) about him calling and texting her so much, and that he clearly had other things in mind than being chatty. And that friends were fine, but if anything started to seem to her like he was trying to move beyond that, particularly a PA, that would be unacceptable and she knew I wouldn't stand for anything like that. She agreed and swore there was nothing to worry about. Clearly she knew I was suspicious now, the temp in the room was up (at least tension-wise) and let the lying commence.

I asked if he would be out in "X" (city) this week. She said of course not, he doesn't even work for the company (he's in the same industry, they did work together about a year ago on a job), so "why would he be there?". Okay, I said.

I changed the subject. I had noticed her work schedule earlier in the day, which was (and still is) sitting right on her desk, and it shows NO ONE except her flying in until 2 days later. I casually asked a few probing questions as to what she was up to that night (her first night there). She threw out some work excuses. I said "They have you doing that by yourself? (now she has to know something's up). "Sure, it's just some stuff I have to take care of before everyone else can get started, it's no big deal. (valid possibility, so I didn't push it past that). I said, "hey - maybe I'll come with you." (Nothing unusual about me saying this either, except for the tension in the air. I come with on lots of her trips, at least used to before she got cold on me and I started hearing "there's not really a good time this next week, really long days, you'll just be hanging out by yourself most of the time", etc). Anyway, she told me she'd rather not this time, cause we're "not really having fun" together right now, so she'd rather I stay home and she'll just concentrate on work. I finally sacked up and said "If you're ever thinking about doing something like that - just listen to me - Don't Do It. Okay?" She said "of course", that she hadn't cheated, and she wouldn't be, so stop worrying about some work friend of hers. "She has lots of work friends."

I apologized for looking at her schedule, but it was RIGHT THERE ON THE DESK, facing me. OPEN. She knew it looked bad that she was "potentially" going out early, that I noticed it, and that she essentially denied me the right to come with. I tried to believe her, because she told me several times it's all good (not that I asked several times). When I found out about the following weekend's trip, AND that the d-bag was out there during this first week too, and that it was now impossible to give her another chance "before she did this"...it became all about getting proof next weekend.

So she knew I was suspicious, I DID give her an explicit warning of my concern, and she lied.

Also, (I think I mentioned this early on) when asked about a bunch of new lingerie she had just bought before leaving, she told me it was for me (for when we "get better"), and of course it wouldn't be going with her. It went with her. Perhaps that was a last minute decision to piss me off for "prying" the night before, but she took it with her nonetheless and left her wedding ring on her desk.

It is too late. And when directly confronted with some of my concerns BEFORE she left, she lied to my face. I suppose I could have insisted that I come with on the trip, but I think it would've been a bad move, and make me seem needy, insecure and insane with jealousy. If I confront her about next weekend before she goes, she'll only lie again, say it "just came up" and it was just for fun. And it's just with some friends. Then she would change her flight time, and maybe even what city she was going to. And I wouldn't be able to get the proof I need to sleep at night after I hit the button when she gets back.

Believe me, I would've fought for this woman til the ends of the earth, I gave her a chance to back down and say she was considering it because she was confused and we've had an off month or two, but she knows it's wrong and she won't do it, or something like that. But no, she lied. And then lied about lying. And she knew that I probably knew, and lied again.

So me riding in on a white horse on Friday to save her from this terrible weekend mistake she's about to make...would be too late, and would only add to her disrespect for me. And a little more humiliation to heap on me. Done being humiliated, now I'm going to have to show her some backbone and do what I essentially promised her I would do if this ever happened.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Sham-
> 
> If you decide to call around to find the hotel and you do, I'd avoid flying out there. Instead, call the hotel operator and say you want to buy a bottle of wine from room service as a gift to be placed I to her room, before she arrives. Ask to have a card left with it, saying it's from you. It should get the message across that you know. It would save you a plane ticket, and confrontations with OMs can lead to bad things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. I would do this. 

Cancel her credit cards first.

:iagree:


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> What about money she has recently wasted (4-5k, far as I know) on getting ready for her little excursion this weekend? Seriously, a 1400 hair appointment, 500 in waxing, 1500 in lingerie/dresses, plane/hotel, etc, etc, etc...


WTF!? $1400 in a hair appointment. $500 waxing. $1500 in lingerie for the OM. These are all direct affair items. Ask your lawyer. If you have not hired one yet you are seriously messing up.


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## Entropy3000

Enchantment said:


> So, I've kind of been watching this thread with interest.
> 
> How do you know that this weekend would not be the first time that they would be <allegedly> physically intimate?
> 
> Why wouldn't you do everything in your power to move heaven and earth to try and prevent this weekend from happening? If it was my spouse, I don't think I could stand to sit around all weekend wondering what they would be up to - I would be fighting for him. Is your wife or marriage really not worth fighting for at all? Have you ever fought for your wife - for her devotion, for her love?
> 
> It seems your wife has been tried and hung with a lot of circumstantial evidence (not that it looks good) in a public forum and hasn't had a chance to speak in her own defense.
> 
> "_A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion_." ~ Chinese proverb
> 
> Wishing you all the best, Shamwow, with whatever course you choose.


I am usually all for stopping this stuff. But even I think it has gone way too far. Very, very likely the ten week trip cunsumated things if not before. I think she is now toxic for him. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> "How do you know that this weekend would not be the first time that they would be <allegedly> physically intimate?"
> 
> Enchantment, Good Point. Some extra details to explain why. Apologies if I left some things out during my insane rantings early on. I was still trying to see things all rosy if possible. I must've forgot to mention that in the days before she left I had seen a few emails open on her computer and became suspicious. I had previously (in a kind of joking way at first) expressed concern about the amount of texts and calls she gets and receives, especially if they were mostly from one guy. So she knew before she left that I was suspicious, but I had tried til then to guard it by asking "innocent" questions, hoping for innocent answers. I knew I was worried about her leaving this time (due to all the sexifying of her, yet me being off the radar) and wanted to let her know I loved her and where I stood. We talked the night before she left, and in that talk I confronted her (calmly) with some concerns I had about everything recently (something we had touched on a few times anyway as a result of feeling "off" for the past few weeks).
> 
> The reason why I'm not "fighting for her" during this week: Because it has already happened. He is with her right now on her current trip. For no valid reason. He is staying in the hotel NEXT to the one her company is staying at. I found that out by simply calling the first two hotels near hers and asking for his room by name - on hotel number two, they put me through.
> 
> The night before she left when we talked I brought up (again) about him calling and texting her so much, and that he clearly had other things in mind than being chatty. And that friends were fine, but if anything started to seem to her like he was trying to move beyond that, particularly a PA, that would be unacceptable and she knew I wouldn't stand for anything like that. She agreed and swore there was nothing to worry about. Clearly she knew I was suspicious now, the temp in the room was up (at least tension-wise) and let the lying commence.
> 
> I asked if he would be out in "X" (city) this week. She said of course not, he doesn't even work for the company (he's in the same industry, they did work together about a year ago on a job), so "why would he be there?". Okay, I said.
> 
> I changed the subject. I had noticed her work schedule earlier in the day, which was (and still is) sitting right on her desk, and it shows NO ONE except her flying in until 2 days later. I casually asked a few probing questions as to what she was up to that night (her first night there). She threw out some work excuses. I said "They have you doing that by yourself? (now she has to know something's up). "Sure, it's just some stuff I have to take care of before everyone else can get started, it's no big deal. (valid possibility, so I didn't push it past that). I said, "hey - maybe I'll come with you." (Nothing unusual about me saying this either, except for the tension in the air. I come with on lots of her trips, at least used to before she got cold on me and I started hearing "there's not really a good time this next week, really long days, you'll just be hanging out by yourself most of the time", etc). Anyway, she told me she'd rather not this time, cause we're "not really not having fun" together right now, so she'd rather I stay home and she'll just concentrate on work. I finally sacked up and said "If you're ever thinking about doing something like that - just listen to me - Don't Do It. Okay?" She said "of course", that she hadn't cheated, and she wouldn't be, so stop worrying about some work friend of hers. "She has lots of work friends."
> 
> I apologized for looking at her schedule, but it was RIGHT THERE ON THE DESK, facing me. OPEN. She knew it looked bad that she was "potentially" going out early, that I noticed it, and that she essentially denied me the right to come with. I tried to believe her, because she told me several times it's all good (not that I asked several times). When I found out about the following weekend's trip, AND that the d-bag was out there during this first week too, and that it was now impossible to give her another chance "before she did this"...it became all about getting proof next weekend.
> 
> So she knew I was suspicious, I DID give her an explicit warning of my concern, and she lied.
> 
> Also, (I think I mentioned this early on) when asked about a bunch of new lingerie she had just bought before leaving, she told me it was for me (for when we "get better"), and of course it wouldn't be going with her. It went with her. Perhaps that was a last minute decision to piss me off for "prying" the night before, but she took it with her nonetheless and left her wedding ring on her desk.
> 
> It is too late. And when directly confronted with some of my concerns BEFORE she left, she lied to my face. I suppose I could have insisted that I come with on the trip, but I think it would've been a bad move, and make me seem needy, insecure and insane with jealousy. If I confront her about next weekend before she goes, she'll only lie again, say it "just came up" and it was just for fun. And it's just with some friends. Then she would change her flight time, and maybe even what city she was going to. And I wouldn't be able to get the proof I need to sleep at night after I hit the button when she gets back.
> 
> Believe me, I would've fought for this woman til the ends of the earth, I gave her a chance to back down and say she was considering it because she was confused and we've had an off month or two, but she knows it's wrong and she won't do it, or something like that. But no, she lied. And then lied about lying. And she knew that I probably knew, and lied again.
> 
> So me riding in on a white horse on Friday to save her from this terrible weekend mistake she's about to make...would be too late, and would only add to her disrespect for me. And a little more humiliation to heap on me. Done being humiliated, now I'm going to have to show her some backbone and do what I essentially promised her I would do if this ever happened.


You have an incredible amount of proof. You might want to buy some condoms to go along with the bottle of bubbly.


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## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> Anyway, she told me she'd rather not this time, cause we're "not really not having fun" together right now, so she'd rather I stay home and she'll just concentrate on work.


 What a telling choice of words. 

I'm with you. She made a choice and you can't stop her as much as it hurts. So the rubber is going to met the road with the choice(s) she made.


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## Ticonderoga

Entropy3000 said:


> You have an incredible amount of proof. You might want to buy some condoms to go along with the bottle of bubbly.


 The bubbly would be getting the last word in. Especially since she lied to your face about it when you asked her. Plus if she ever tells anyone about the bubbly after the fact you get major bonus points. It is a classy way of saying f**k you.


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## Shamwow

Entropy - I have hired a lawyer. We hash through the details tomorrow. Though I do feel like I'm 10 steps behind already. He's good though, and it will not be cheap...but luckily we have no kids and our assets are pretty cut and dried in accounts in our names, etc. I'm sure he'll tell me 10,000 other things that I have to worry about though. I need to bust my a** to catch up. That's why I can justify his rate.

I remember she told me long ago regarding her first marriage (which ended when she was 22) that the woman has it planned out MONTHS in advance before the guy even starts to get any clue of what's going on. The exit strategy, the new bf, the money, a car, a place to stay, her story for friends/family, EVERYTHING. He gets blindsided. Well, Blindsiding is almost here. If my guy can get me papers to present her with first she can stick it. 

Needless to say, I may have opened a PO Box today (for all my future paychecks and business stuff to be routed to). I may also have opened a safe deposit box and may or may not have collected the last 5 years tax returns, retirement account statements, passport info and car titles. I may have changed all the passwords on my credit card accounts and email accounts. I may have also gotten a new phone that's pre-paid. I may be liquidating a few things into cash, and maybe have begun selling crap online that we've been meaning to sell for a while anyway. If I did any of these things...oops!

And can I really cancel her credit cards? There are two in both of our names, but we each have a few of our own. Seems a little cold, but interesting to know it may be an option.

Just noticed today that she paid $500 to one of her cards out of our joint checking. Hmmm, wonder what she needs that space on her card for...work?


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## the guy

I know you have alot of equipment , with the home office and all, but wouldn't it be great to just pack your stuuf and leave. Leaving her with her house and BS life to just wonder what happened to you.

Talk about "just let them go".....her,coming home to a half empty house with now note, no explaination, no nothing! A disappearing act that equals the unanswered questions that she has left you.

Think about it, all the unanswered question she will have for were you went, were you are, and how to contact you, and maybe even why your gone. IMO this could be the perfect "let them go" case of all times.

Poetic justice for a cheating wife! 

What do you think...possible? Or is the confrontation worth the possiblity to work on the marriage?


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Entropy - I have hired a lawyer. We hash through the details tomorrow. Though I do feel like I'm 10 steps behind already. He's good though, and it will not be cheap...but luckily we have no kids and our assets are pretty cut and dried in accounts in our names, etc. I'm sure he'll tell me 10,000 other things that I have to worry about though. I need to bust my a** to catch up. That's why I can justify his rate.
> 
> *I remember she told me long ago regarding her first marriage (which ended when she was 22) that the woman has it planned out MONTHS in advance before the guy even starts to get any clue of what's going on. The exit strategy, the new bf, the money, a car, a place to stay, her story for friends/family, EVERYTHING.* He gets blindsided. Well, Blindsiding is almost here. If my guy can get me papers to present to her with first she can stick it.
> 
> Needless to say, I may have opened a PO Box today (for all my future paychecks and business stuff to be routed to). I may also have opened a safe deposit box and may or may not have collected the last 5 years tax returns, retirement account statements, passport info and car titles. I may have changed all the passwords on my credit card accounts and email accounts. I may have also gotten a new phone that's pre-paid. I may be liquidating a few things into cash, and maybe have begun selling crap online that we've been meaning to sell for a while anyway. If I did any of these things...oops!
> 
> And can I really cancel her credit cards? There are two in both of your names, but we each have a few of our own. Seems a little cold, but interesting to know it may be an option.
> 
> Just noticed today that she paid $500 to one of her cards out of our joint checking. Hmmm, wonder what she needs that space on her card for...work?


Wow. That is cold hearted.


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## Shaggy

And you haven't called and cancelled her flight or moved it to another time why?

Seriously, you have the opportunity to mess with her plans big time, and you likely will never have this chance again.


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## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> And you haven't called and cancelled her flight or moved it to another time why?
> 
> Seriously, you have the opportunity to mess with her plans big time, and you likely will never have this chance again.


I think he should change her flight to go somewhere else. Maybe home. For sure flying coach with a middle seat.


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## Shamwow

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone. Would love to try some of these out...right now I just can't wait for this to be over with though, cause I think it's easy one second and then I think of my wife that once was, not the whatever-it-is that is living in my house now. Sucks. Figuring out what to do is now a 24-hr job. And I have work to do that isn't getting done. Hope my well-recommended lawyer can take a huge load off my back tomorrow morning.

Agreed on the flight f**k-up plan being awesome...but it would start a train of ideas on how crazy I could make life for her. Like a David Lynch movie or something. Or John Hughes (Christmas Vacation?). Not sure I can go there. But it entertains my late nights in between wondering wtf is going on.


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## PHTlump

Ask your lawyer about the flight change. That's hilarious, but it would also tip her off. You may need more time to get your affairs arranged. Of course, you might be able to play dumb, claiming you found out she was scheduled on this flight to the romantic city "by mistake" and lucky you were able to change it to fly home. 

Also, your wife's statements about women leaving marriage make me wonder about her first marriage. I know she told you her husband cheated on her, but is that the truth? Will she tell her next boyfriend that you cheated on her as well? You might want to track down her first husband for his side of the story, if that could be relevant to your divorce.

Your lawyer will also advise you on the recent expenses, but I don't think the affair expenses (hotel rooms, flights, grooming expenses, lingerie) are divided in a divorce. Those will be assigned to her. You will probably still have to split other debts such as the house/cars.


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## FieryHairedLady

So sorry to see you are going thru all this OP. Stay strong.


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## Shamwow

PHTlump said:


> Also, your wife's statements about women leaving marriage make me wonder about her first marriage. I know she told you her husband cheated on her, but is that the truth? Will she tell her next boyfriend that you cheated on her as well? You might want to track down her first husband for his side of the story, if that could be relevant to your divorce.


Totally wondered the same thing. Perhaps she got bored with him too...though she told me those things wayyyy back when we first met, presuming she would have been telling the truth then. Remember, lying to me is a new thing for her (and I do believe that).

But yeah, I'm trying to prepare for all kinds of fantastical creations that she'll come up with to tell everyone about me and our relationship (including me). I have to be prepared to just laugh. No one's relationship is perfect, but ours was pretty enviable (at least until a few months ago). She clearly may have felt different about that earlier though, maybe 6 mos? Maybe longer? Though we did reaffirm our vows a few days before 10-wk trip - anniversary night planned by me, reproposed, dancing, dinner, good lovin. She "happy" cried and everything. So she must've still dug me a little. The 10-wk trip was the killer, though I'm guessing d-bag was trying to work his way in much earlier.

On my way to lawyer in an hour, can't wait to get this out of my hands.


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## morituri

Long absences between spouses due to work are a breeding ground for affairs. You may not have a 'smoking gun' per se as far as evidence of an affair by her, but there are plenty of circumstantial evidence that points in that direction. Also, when a husband or wife starts feeling something is amiss with their spouse, it usually turns out to be the cases more often than not.


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## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> Totally wondered the same thing. Perhaps she got bored with him too...though she told me those things wayyyy back when we first met, presuming she would have been telling the truth then. Remember, lying to me is a new thing for her (and I do believe that).


Not necessarily. I have never heard a woman, or man either, admit that she cheated on her husband because she was bored and that resulted in a divorce. Even women who do exactly that invent a story that they stick to forever. I guarantee that, 10 years from now, she will explain your divorce as you neglecting her, or you just "grew apart", etc. Even if she admits to cheating on you, she will try to justify it.

Stay strong. I hope the lawyer has (relatively) good news for you.


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## Ticonderoga

morituri said:


> Long absences between spouses due to work are a breeding ground for affairs.


 That is so true.


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## Shamwow

Met with the lawyer.

He seems perfect. He had good news. Basically since we have no kids, and our accounts are essentially split pretty clear, our retirement accounts are fairly equal and in our own names, etc, that this should be the easiest divorce ever (at least on paper). He said there's really nothing she can go after, and vice versa. So it sounds like the hardest part I'll have to deal with is how she reacts, what she says to me/about me, and generally all she can do is try to hurt my feelings. Already done, I've had time to start dealing with that for a while now, so at least it will be somewhat easier than being slapped in the face with this if I hadn't seen even this much coming at me.

She can't hinder my business, and vice versa. Of course, there's all the marital assets like TVs, artwork, furniture, tools and all that to deal with. But we'll just have to come up with something.

I am filling out a detailed summary sheet to fax back to his office today, and he will have a paralegal prepare the initial papers (saving me money), and by Monday at noon I'll have an official Summons & Petition for Dissolution of Marriage in my hands. So I'll be prepared with that at least. (Still have a lot of soul-searching to figure out how to best do the actual deed though)

Another piece of good news - he thinks she and I might be able to "work together" to mutually dump the house without having to deal with a traditional sale. Deed in lieu of foreclosure...anyone heard of this?

So...that's where I'm at. Calling the PI now to set things up for this weekend. Then I need to bury my head in work for the rest of the day.


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## Stonewall

Stay strong brother. In her presence act like you couldn't be happier with the outcome.


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## Shamwow

Stonewall - I think that will be the hardest part for me. Every time I go over "the conversation" that is to come...it tends to want to go to the "tearful goodbye" end of things. Of course she doesn't deserve that. But it sure pops up in my head. Whether or not it's right, part of me still wants her to know I cared that much and she effed it all up. But I can't imagine there would be a real point to that now...she knows that...she clearly just doesn't care. So I just have to strap on a pair and pretend I'm acting or something. Not looking forward to it.


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## Shaggy

I strongly recommend you have a VAR and have it with you.

She's been playing games and it sounds like she may be prepared to play more games. So have it on you and on.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Okay, what am I missing here? You have pretty solid evidence that she is cheating. Hotel rooms next to one another, she lied about flight arrival, secretive about cell phone, etc. Why waste money on a PI or VAR when you have already decided to divorce? File and save the money or is there more to this?
Also you said the house is in her name, right? Why would you care then if she is underwater? Let her take the hit and suffer the credit default.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Totally wondered the same thing. Perhaps she got bored with him too...though she told me those things wayyyy back when we first met, presuming she would have been telling the truth then. Remember, lying to me is a new thing for her (and I do believe that).
> 
> But yeah, I'm trying to prepare for all kinds of fantastical creations that she'll come up with to tell everyone about me and our relationship (including me). I have to be prepared to just laugh. No one's relationship is perfect, but ours was pretty enviable (at least until a few months ago). She clearly may have felt different about that earlier though, maybe 6 mos? Maybe longer? *Though we did reaffirm our vows a few days before 10-wk trip - anniversary night planned by me, reproposed, dancing, dinner, good lovin.* *She "happy" cried and everything. * So she must've still dug me a little. The 10-wk trip was the killer, though I'm guessing d-bag was trying to work his way in much earlier.
> 
> On my way to lawyer in an hour, can't wait to get this out of my hands.


Oh my lord!! You are killing me.


----------



## Entropy3000

morituri said:


> Long absences between spouses due to work are a breeding ground for affairs. You may not have a 'smoking gun' per se as far as evidence of an affair by her, but there are plenty of circumstantial evidence that points in that direction. Also, when a husband or wife starts feeling something is amiss with their spouse, it usually turns out to be the cases more often than not.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Shamwow

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, what am I missing here? You have pretty solid evidence that she is cheating. Hotel rooms next to one another, she lied about flight arrival, secretive about cell phone, etc. Why waste money on a PI or VAR when you have already decided to divorce? File and save the money or is there more to this?
> Also you said the house is in her name, right? Why would you care then if she is underwater? Let her take the hit and suffer the credit default.


Bright Eyes - I understand what you mean. But pretty solid evidence is only almost enough for me. Please try to see this from my perspective as the blindsided BS. I'm a pretty trusting guy. This is hitting me suddenly...like a bag of rocks on the side of the head. Yes, I have decided to take steps to initiate divorce...but not because I want to. She may think that (and hopefully will) when I let er rip, but I only want to because I have no other choice to maintain my dignity if there is a physical affair. EA is huge on its own, but I would give her second chances aplenty if that were the case and if she really tried to work with me. I will not back down on this, as I made that clear before she left, and frankly, it's all I have to stand on. (guys, do I sound weak here? Can I assume that others would feel pretty similar when faced with this situation?)

Not holding on to some fantasy of tearful reconciliation, but given I don't know WTF has happened to our life in the last few weeks (months?), the only comfort I have is knowing I'm doing the right thing for me. The PI will give me that assurance that I'm correct. Hopefully. There's always that .01% chance that she has concocted this mess to test me and see what I would do to be with her (ladies? Is this even humanly possible?). But played the way it was, I don't think I can see past the lack of respect anyway. And I have to respond in kind. Clearly it's important to me to come out with the moral high ground...been cheated on once before (that I'm aware of...sheesh) and I can't say I'd recommend pretending to be okay with it...it did me no good back in the day. Either way, after 8 years of happy I'm suddenly spinning, and some outside proof would at least give me some perspective in my decision.

She's wasted plenty on this week to ignore her conscience, I will be spending less than half of what she did to get a fulfilled conscience on my decision. And it's my money just as much as it is hers...we both do just fine, and have always shared every penny. C'est la vie. Hell, the lawyer is gonna cost a few bucks too, but at least we both know it's a real situation then. We love to waste money together. Why would I stop that in the heaviest situation in our life?

As for the house, we live in a no-fault state. Everything is split up, regardless of who did what. We bought the house together, refinanced a few years later under her name (as I had just gone on my own and the bank required 2 years income proof if you're a freelancer), and my lawyer told me today that that is inconsequential. I'm still an original deedholder. So the house is ours. We have to unload it together, loss or no.

Hope that helps make sense of where I'm coming from...


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## Halien

Shamwow said:


> There's always that .01% chance that she has concocted this mess to test me and see what I would do to be with her (ladies? Is this even humanly possible?).


lex parsimoniae - Occam's Razor aside, I think your gut tells you what is happening, and that is why the thread started in the first place. Your gut was telling you that something was wrong. Its really hard for a statistics guy to tell someone to trust the gut, too.

Those outside this thread - the ones of us who haven't been through infidelity (not to the extent of many of these on this site) can completely understand how you feel. I'm a very trusting person. It is completely normal to be where you are - to still want to give the benefit of the doubt. The true test of your good sense is that you are taking a parrallel path here. Preparing for what the gut tells you is happening, while mentally hoping that it will go away. Very few can probably do this. I think it means that you'll find ways to heal much faster, too, to accept that there is nothing inherently wrong with you that led up to this. I wish you the best in the next few days.


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## Entropy3000

> There's always that .01% chance that she has concocted this mess to test me


No. That is way way too high a number here. You are talking about a number with a lot more zeroes after the decimal point.

If this is a test then you are starting to fail, by having these doubts about the evidence you have found. 

So when is her secret trip? Do you not talk to your wife daily at least on your cell phone when she works? 

If you have these doubts then I do suggest you do find out where she is staying and go there. She is meeting this OM. If you have to see this to believe it then go. You cannot have these doubts when she gets back.

What city are they flying to? Why there? Is it a resort? WTF?


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## Scottt

Shamwow said:


> There's always that .01% chance that she has concocted this mess to test me and see what I would do to be with her. ...


I've been reading this thread closely all week, and I had begun to wonder the same thing. I'm sure it's not the only reason your wife has planned the romantic weekend with the other man (OM), but the way she's gone about it, it's hard to imagine there isn't at least some element of a test in her mind. And so far, I'd say you've flunked it! At least I can't see anything you've done to prevent it from happening, or at least to slow them down a bit. Sorry to say it so directly, but it's true. (And telling your wife not to mess around doesn't count; if anything, it probably only made it seem more exciting.) If it were me, about the last thing on the OM's mind right now would be a weekend away with your wife. (You said he was married, right? Have you talked to his wife yet?)



Entropy3000 said:


> So when is her secret trip? Do you not talk to your wife daily at least on your cell phone when she works?
> 
> If you have these doubts then I do suggest you do find out where she is staying and go there. She is meeting this OM. If you have to see this to believe it then go. You cannot have these doubts when she gets back.
> 
> What city are they flying to? Why there? Is it a resort? WTF?


If I were you, I'd go. They may laugh in your face, which is sad, but at least their weekend won't be the same. The OM will probably spend the rest of it trying to figure out what to tell his wife.

As a low-cost alternative, you could always fire off an e-mail to your wife saying you can't wait till Monday to see her, so you're flying to her work city this weekend. She'll most likely start telling you reasons not to (since she won't be there anyway, but won't want to tell you that), but just don't answer them. Then she can spend the weekend figuring out how to explain herself. Or, not too likely, but she could invite you to the romantic city instead.


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## Scannerguard

Okay, I am going to post once and if you want my opinion (if it jives with what you think), I usually hang out in the Life After Divorce forum b/c this isn't about sex any more:



> ]if were you - I would drain all the cash you can get your hands on.


Not a bad strategy necessarily but be careful. . .that is actually a bad faith move than an attorney may advise against. It could only be assumed that half the cash is yours and to seize all of it could bring legal repercussions later.



> She's run up charge cards - cancel any you can cancel.


This is true.



> Her debts are your debts and currently you're financing 50% of the all the stuff she is buying for the guy and her affair.


This is why filing for divorce quickly is paramount. Her debts become her debts after the filing in most states.




> Since the house is her name and it's under water. Walk. It's her debt to worry about.


Not necessarily. That would be akin to me taking the position of "Well, I made the money and the house is in my name and I am a rich doctor who married a secretary so it's my ASSET."

All assets and liabilities are usually considered co-owned in a marriage. It doesn't matter who's "name" the house is in. Now admittedly, it may be HER credit that is trashed if she's on the note and deed and not you, but don't just assume you have no obligation with regards to the partnership.



> Oh, and contact the OM's wife before they get back so she can have her plans in place.


I'll abstain from this one.



> It's clear you're way late to the party. The fact she made a list of what to wear to seduce him and left it behind is a clear sign you're playing catch-up big time.
> 
> It's time for you to stop following and take charge and take her down while you're doing it.


Okay, this speaks to the other poster saying to go into with both guns blazing and take no prisioners. This is an incorrect approach. 

Yeah, you can pay an attorney $20,000 to send letters back and forth threatening to call her a *****, then her attorney calls you a deadbeat, and so on, and guess what? Your divorce, mostly, is predetermined by the law anyway.

Judges have some leeway but guess what? They have to follow the law mostly.

To think an attorney is going to get you or her out of child support or alimony or debts that need to be paid because she screwed the entire NY Yankees. . .well that's TV drama series law, not real law.



> Oh, and don't forget to call her employer and his. It sounds like they are using work resources and travel to carry on their affair. They both likely have terms in their contracts that make this forbidden. Burn them both.


I am frankly not sure I would do this either. Sabatoging her income source won't bode well for your chances of alimony/child support which may be on the table. You want her gainfully employed from a negotiating/marital inventory standpoint.

Otherwise, if I were her attorney, I would plea to the judge:

"Your honor, my client, who is a wonderful mother and was obviously neglected sexually throughout her marriage because the defendant was a pornography consuming oaf, lost her job because he caused all kinds of drama, which is exhibited for your review.

I therefore request that he be responsible for this amount financially."

I could, and I would, in my fantasy mind reduce it to make you look like this was all YOUR fault, not hers. 

"Obviously your honor, my client, who does have 2 breasts and a vagina, has been victimized. See her crying?"

You definitely need an hour consult with an attorney so you can get your messed up head screwed on straight (ie: YOU NEED COUNSEL) and not talking to a bunch of internet yahoos who are obviously egging you on.

A good attorney should proceed to slap you a bit silly and politely inform you that the posters at TAM, except for Scannerguard, are talking out their hineys.


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## Shamwow

Scottt said:


> And so far, I'd say you've flunked it! At least I can't see anything you've done to prevent it from happening, or at least to slow them down a bit. Sorry to say it so directly, but it's true. (And telling your wife not to mess around doesn't count; if anything, it probably only made it seem more exciting.) If it were me, about the last thing on the OM's mind right now would be a weekend away with your wife. (You said he was married, right? Have you talked to his wife yet?)


Slow them down a bit? How? It's already done! Why would I want to slow them down now?

I appreciate the outside perspective on how I've dealt with this, and perhaps I've failed in some ways. But I DO think giving her an explicit warning before she left after a long discussion that brought a lot of suspicions out in the open, counts. Not as if I I found out about this and then sat and whined to myself about it while letting her go and not saying/doing anything about it. The things I've found out since she left put it over the top, and since she's already gone I can only work on what to do now. I did the right thing by speaking up, she agreed, but also lied at the same time.

The hollywood longshot is just that. Should I have gone with her anyway, made her miserable by showing her I don't trust her so I "had to" come with, and follow her to work every day, hold her hand between places she went, made her eat lunch and dinner with me every day? Escort her into the bathroom? And most likely she'd still find a way to meet d-bag McGee in a different place? Sure, those things would assert "authority", but the kind of backwoods jealous controlling husband authority that women run FROM. Not authority coming from respect.

I think once I let her know I was suspicious, laid out the clear reasons why I had justification to be suspicious, and told her exactly what it would mean if that were to happen, and she responded that of course she understood (and no worries), my cards were played. The ball was in her court. Her message was essentially "You have laid out before me plenty of reasons not to trust me. Maybe you shouldn't, but I'm going to do this anyway and don't worry, won't cross any lines...trust me."

Regarding his wife...s**t. Apparently he is no longer married. Paid to do a records search...far as I can tell he's a free man. That one sticks me, cause I was at least looking forward to ruining his marriage and effing up his life in the same way he's doing to me. Sorry guys...I have no power play on him anymore. At least not in the same grand arena as I thought I did.


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## Shamwow

Scannerguard said:


> You definitely need an hour consult with an attorney and not talking to a bunch of internet yahoos who are obviously egging you on.


Thanks Scanner...I realize it may seem as if I'm taking all advice from any and all who will give it. I am certainly listening to everything I can get my hands on, and don't agree with everything said, but I appreciate the input nonetheless.

I *have* hired an attorney. He will have my petition completed by Monday. We have no children and he thinks this should be an extremely simple case on both sides. Neither of us can really go after the other, except for incidentals. His main warning was to keep my cool, perhaps record audio of the confrontation moment, because if I raise my voice even a little she could freak and then I'm slapped with a restraining order and kicked out of my house. (hell, even if I don't raise my voice even a little she could do all those things)

I've also seen a therapist twice this week (first time for me). He has been very helpful in keeping my head on straight...as have many of the people posting their thoughts here.

But at the moment this is the simplest (and cheapest) forum to continually express all sides of what I'm dealing with, and believe me I'm thankful for the outlet. When I express insecurities (like the .01% thing) it doesn't mean that I'm a big p***y and don't deserve my wife because she needs a real man, or whatever. It means, of course I can't go from confused about why our sex life and emotional connection got foggy 2 months ago, to holy s**t all this is going on, confronting her about what I saw and laying down a firm yet respectful ultimatum, finding all these new things out since she left, realizing how it's all over, and trying to wrap up all the details in my head in a matter of days...without some lingering doubts or lack of certainty creeping in. I am certain she has lost her respect for me. I am doubtful that I can block out 8 years of good memories entirely and be 100% businesslike in my head about this. But believe me I'm trying. Also, I have only have a couple friends who I can talk to about this right now, as I don't want to bring family into it, and most of my friends are "our" friends, and anything she hears about this I want to come from ME. 

P.S. Should I be moving this thread? If so, which one and how do I do that? Thanks.


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## Entropy3000

Scottt said:


> I've been reading this thread closely all week, and I had begun to wonder the same thing. I'm sure it's not the only reason your wife has planned the romantic weekend with the other man (OM), but the way she's gone about it, it's hard to imagine there isn't at least some element of a test in her mind. And so far, I'd say you've flunked it! At least I can't see anything you've done to prevent it from happening, or at least to slow them down a bit. Sorry to say it so directly, but it's true. (And telling your wife not to mess around doesn't count; if anything, it probably only made it seem more exciting.) If it were me, about the last thing on the OM's mind right now would be a weekend away with your wife. (You said he was married, right? Have you talked to his wife yet?)
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd go. They may laugh in your face, which is sad, but at least their weekend won't be the same. The OM will probably spend the rest of it trying to figure out what to tell his wife.
> 
> *As a low-cost alternative, you could always fire off an e-mail to your wife saying you can't wait till Monday to see her, so you're flying to her work city this weekend*. She'll most likely start telling you reasons not to (since she won't be there anyway, but won't want to tell you that), but just don't answer them. Then she can spend the weekend figuring out how to explain herself. Or, not too likely, but she could invite you to the romantic city instead.


This had crossed my mind. This is a great idea. It shows her that he cares and is willing to be spontaneous. If she is testing him as he says, this would be a big win.

She will likely make excuses as to why he cannot do this. There is a reasonable chance if she wishes to cake eat that she will change her plans if he insists that he is coming anyway and not taking no for an answer so that he can at least see her and have dinner with her and sleep in the same bed. He can say he has already booked this as a surprise but could not keep a secret from her. She would not have an excuse for this. 

If she goes off the deep end, he could then say, well then why don't we meet somewhere else? Then he could suggest the city she was already flying to for her secret trip. I actually see no advantage for him to let her get home to confront her. It is better that she is away from home. Why give her the comfort of being at home. She needs to feel real uneasy. If he plans this right it is best that the confrontation be on his terms and at the place and way of his choosing.

If she says he cannot come to where she is working because she is traveling to another city and can act surprised and let her explain herself. If she comes clean then cool he gets the confirmation he needs. Then after the phone call he can fall apart emotionally as this would be a gut wrench moment. BUT she would not be seeing him. He could be cool and Alpha on the phone as long as his voice does not show his stress.

Anyway, I think there is an optimal scenario where he plays this and most of the advantages are his. Knowledge is power. But you have to use that knowledge.


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## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> So when is her secret trip? Do you not talk to your wife daily at least on your cell phone when she works?


Trip is Sat night-Mon night. Party city. Give you three guesses...

Of course we talk on the phone when she's working, we usually text periodically and have at least a "wrap-up before bed" conversation on the phone. This trip? Not daily. She knows I'm pissed. I have every reason to not be calling for a casual chat. I usually let her call me unless I have something pressing to talk about, as her schedules are usually pretty varied when she's working. She's called me twice since Saturday. I'll let her do the calling. I'm playing it casual and keeping conversations short and sweet.


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## Shamwow

Scottt said:


> As a low-cost alternative, you could always fire off an e-mail to your wife saying you can't wait till Monday to see her, so you're flying to her work city this weekend. She'll most likely start telling you reasons not to (since she won't be there anyway, but won't want to tell you that), but just don't answer them. Then she can spend the weekend figuring out how to explain herself. Or, not too likely, but she could invite you to the romantic city instead.


I suppose I do have this as one more strong option of asserting authority. Seriously considering this. Would have to be tonight or tomorrow morning. Gives her "one more chance" to come clean. And I know she'll have excuses, as she's already played that card when I offered to come with last weekend when she left.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Trip is Sat night-Mon night. *Party city. *Give you three guesses...
> 
> Of course we talk on the phone when she's working, we usually text periodically and have at least a "wrap-up before bed" conversation on the phone. This trip? Not daily. She knows I'm pissed. I have every reason to not be calling for a casual chat. I usually let her call me unless I have something pressing to talk about, as her schedules are usually pretty varied when she's working. She's called me twice since Saturday. I'll let her do the calling. I'm playing it casual and keeping conversations short and sweet.


That fits. So I am assuming that the OM got the hotel.

I guess where I was headed with this is if she is partying it up with this guy what will be her excuse for not being able to continue those chats. Will she try to portray that she is still working. 

I suppose it is possible they are having a big fling this weekend and she is planning to dump this on you when she gets back.
Can she file for divorce there without you?


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## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> I suppose it is possible they are having a big fling this weekend and she is planning to dump this on you when she gets back.
> Can she file for divorce there without you?


That's the feeling I get. That's why I wanna be able to hand her the papers first. Don't think she can file for divorce there, we weren't married there, and it has to be done in our home state. That said, she could do just as I have done and fill out a dissolution summary form, send it to her lawyer (assuming she's planning to drop the bomb when she gets back, and already has a lawyer), and he could email her a petition exactly like the one my lawyer will have for me on Monday. Could be kinda funny actually...we both hand each other papers at the same time. Well, funny if it were a movie or something...


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## Scottt

Shamwow said:


> Should I have gone with her anyway, made her miserable by showing her I don't trust her so I "had to" come with, and follow her to work every day, hold her hand between places she went, made her eat lunch and dinner with me every day? Escort her into the bathroom? And most likely she'd still find a way to meet d-bag McGee in a different place? Sure, those things would assert "authority", but the kind of backwoods jealous controlling husband authority that women run FROM. Not authority coming from respect.


I'm assuming she's in what they call "the Fog" right now, and d-bag McGee is with her and you aren't, so yeah, it probably would have taken something about like that. And as you say, it still might not have been enough.

The calm, rational approach might still work if you're trying to help her decide what kind of tires to buy or something, but as far as whether or not to have her fling, I wonder if it even registered with her, really.


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## morituri

Rejection is hard for everybody but it SEEMS to hit women harder than men. Her being served with divorce papers filed by you, will probably have a devastating effect on her IF her affair happens to be a strictly PA oriented one like my ex-wife was. Assuming this is the case, you can expect plenty of crying and groveling on her part. BUT if it's a full blown love affair, then she may simply and silently acquiesce to the divorce and nothing more. Try to be prepared for either of the two scenarios.


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## Entropy3000

Scottt said:


> I'm assuming she's in what they call "the Fog" right now, and d-bag McGee is with her and you aren't, so yeah, it probably would have taken something about like that. And as you say, it still might not have been enough.
> 
> *The calm, rational approach might still work if you're trying to help her decide what kind of tires to buy or something, but as far as whether or not to have her fling, I wonder if it even registered with her, real*ly.


:iagree:


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## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> I'm still an original deedholder. So the house is ours. We have to unload it together, loss or no.


 When I went to a lawyer for a consultation he indicated there was a loophole about who's name was on the morgage/deed. If you want the house might be worth checking into a litte more. 

You are in a tough spot about this weekend. Still think sending her something to let her know you know she is there is a good idea. It will kill the mood with the other guy and she might even come home early. Meeting her face to face is just going to be an emotional **** storm that doesn't do any good.


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## Scottt

Entropy3000 said:


> I actually see no advantage for him to let her get home to confront her. It is better that she is away from home. Why give her the comfort of being at home. She needs to feel real uneasy. If he plans this right it is best that the confrontation be on his terms and at the place and way of his choosing.
> 
> If she says he cannot come to where she is working because she is traveling to another city and can act surprised and let her explain herself. If she comes clean then cool he gets the confirmation he needs. Then after the phone call he can fall apart emotionally as this would be a gut wrench moment. BUT she would not be seeing him. He could be cool and Alpha on the phone as long as his voice does not show his stress.
> 
> Anyway, I think there is an optimal scenario where he plays this and most of the advantages are his. Knowledge is power. But you have to use that knowledge.


This is excellent advice. I guess what bothered me is the thought of you just sitting there all weekend wondering what your wife was up to and what she was going to do when she returned (or not) on Monday. At least this way, you'd be the one taking the initiative, for something other than a divorce.


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## Shamwow

Scottt said:


> This is excellent advice. I guess what bothered me is the thought of you just sitting there all weekend wondering what your wife was up to and what she was going to do when she returned (or not) on Monday. At least this way, you'd be the one taking the initiative, for something other than a divorce.


Agreed. I think I'm going to do it. Believe me, it was bothering ME to think about wondering what she was up to as well. If she comes clean, I have my answer. If she doesn't come clean, I have my answer. Either way I will have stood up for myself and our marriage, and she would know that and couldn't ever take that away from me.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Agreed. I think I'm going to do it. Believe me, it was bothering ME to think about wondering what she was up to as well. If she comes clean, I have my answer. If she doesn't come clean, I have my answer. Either way I will have stood up for myself and our marriage, and she would know that and couldn't ever take that away from me.


:smthumbup:

No point in her having a great weekend while you tear yourself apart waiting. That just wears you down. I would much rather take action in a positive way. You will feel more like you are in control and not just reacting.

Good luck. Sorry you are dealing with this.


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## Halien

There are lots of questions about her possible intentions with this guy, and with her marriage. Waiting for her to come home is dangerous, but not only for many of the reasons listed so far.

I'm certainly no expert, but think about some of the concepts taught when talking down people in volatile situations. If she comes home, and immediately learns that you knew everything, she will repond much differently than if she has time to digest and worry a bit. You'll get the worst case. Worst case BS or worst case crocodile tears. Agreed, if you show up face to face there, you'll get a dose of scorn and laughter, most likely. But if you initiate soft contact, something that tells her that you know, not only will you really add a downer to the weekend plans, you'll give her some time to begin digesting the new reality of her life going forward. Others will say that this gives her time to put together a story or plan, but you will get that in one shape or form anyway. You already know what you will most likely do going forward. She needs to come home ready to discuss an exit plan, or ready to ask for the improbable forgiveness. Every single action she takes from that moment forward will feel like you are watching, putting together a better case for divorce. And you get to mess with the OM's head.

Not suggestiong that she'll be violent - only that she'll respond completely different than what she normally would, given more time


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## Shamwow

Just talked to her.

I told her I couldn't wait to see her, and that I booked tix for tomorrow to go where she is, know she's busy but we can at least grab dinner or a few beers and spend the night together. She said she actually won't be there, so I should cancel the tix (hey - a bit of truth!). I asked where she'll be. She then admitted to going to Party City tomorrow, and says it's something her and some friends have been trying to put together for like a year, finally found a chance to do it.

[To Paraphrase]

Me: "Huh. Well I gotta ask - Why didn't you tell me you were going there?

Her: "Because I knew you wouldn't like it."

Me: "Why not? I love Party City."

Her: "Because I want to go have fun with my friends, and didn't want you to come along, since (again) we're not having a whole lot of fun right now."

Me: "Well that sucks...I can understand wanting to party it up with friends, but when I make big plans you're always the first part of them, so you can understand why I'm not thrilled for you and your trip at the moment. We'd probably have a blast."

Her: "Also, I knew you wouldn't like who's going. ______ and ______." (both guys...and yes, OM is one of them)

Me: "Well, gotta tell you...you were right. I don't like it. I can't imagine I'd like it even if you had told me you were going in advance, but since you hid it from me and lied about it, it really doesn't leave me much else to think except the worst-case scenario here. So you're going with _____, the guy who you told me was thinking about flying to hook up with his ex a couple months ago (has a gf in town), and ______, the guy that texts you constantly and obviously wants more from you than you either realize, or than you're telling me about. Nope, don't like it at all."

Her: "We're just friends, I just want to go have fun, hang by the pool and play some blackjack or whatever. It's not like I'm gonna cheat on you or anything. I told you that the other day."

Me: "Of course I want to believe that...I love you...and I've always trusted you implicity, I've ALWAYS knows that no matter what happens, YOU HAVE MY BACK. I've never had one reason, ever, to doubt you for one second until all this weirdness came up recently. Of course I want to believe it's a 'friends' trip. But since you lied about this to me you have to admit I'll be having a bit of trouble buying that right now." 

Her: "You're right, it was stupid, sorry. I mean, WTF, I'm lying to you about stuff...don't know how to fix it. But I only did because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I knew you'd think it was wrong and be mad at me, and I haven't been able to just relax in so long, been on the road forever and it's always full with work, and the last couple times I've come home we're not having much fun and I don't fully relax, and then back on the road...just want to hang with some friends and have fun for a couple days, then I'll be home and we can figure it out. I know it looks bad, but no worries."

Me: "Sorry - it does look bad, and I don't think it's cool for you to just go and do this, especially after me asking you not to for obvious reasons. You know that. You're putting yourself in a bad situation with this trip. I know you're a big girl and can take care of yourself, but why even go there? I don't want to tell you what to do, but I pretty much have to here. So I don't know how to fix something like this either, but it seems like the easiest way to start would be to COME HOME, because clearly this weekend is not going to do us any good. Or...since I have the weekend free, I'd love to come out and tear it up with you guys. We always have fun in Party City. Pick one."

Her: "I'm going, sorry, I'd just rather it not be our trip, we've got that trip to _______ coming up, it's all good. I just really need this time. Don't be mad. I got a meeting in a few minutes, okay? Gotta go, love you."

Me: Alright then.


** Note: Emotions never got hot in the conversation. She didn't quiver or sound like she was nervous, or cry or anything. Neither did I. Really wish I had heard some nerves in her voice...and would love to have seen her body language.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Just talked to her.
> 
> I told her I couldn't wait to see her, and that I booked tix for tomorrow to go where she is, know she's busy but we can at least grab dinner or a few beers and spend the night together. She said she actually won't be there, so I should cancel the tix (hey - a bit of truth!). I asked where she'll be. She then admitted to going to Party City tomorrow, and says it's something her and some friends have been trying to put together for like a year, finally found a chance to do it.
> 
> [To Paraphrase]
> 
> Me: "Huh. Well I gotta ask - Why didn't you tell me you were going there?
> 
> Her: "Because I knew you wouldn't like it."
> 
> Me: "Why not? I love Party City."
> 
> Her: "Because I want to go have fun with my friends, and didn't want you to come along, since (again) we're not having a whole lot of fun right now."
> 
> Me: "Well that sucks...I can understand wanting to party it up with friends, but when I make big plans you're always the first part of them, so you can understand why I'm not thrilled for you and your trip at the moment. We'd probably have a blast."
> 
> Her: "Also, I knew you wouldn't like who's going. ______ and ______." (both guys...and yes, OM is one of them)
> 
> Me: "Well, gotta tell you...you were right. I don't like it. I can't imagine I'd like it even if you had told me you were going in advance, but since you hid it from me and lied about it, it really doesn't leave me much else to think except the worst-case scenario here. So you're going with _____, the guy who you told me was thinking about flying to hook up with his ex a couple months ago (has a gf in town), and ______, the guy that texts you constantly and obviously wants more from you than you either realize, or than you're telling me about. Nope, don't like it at all."
> 
> Her: "We're just friends, I just want to go have fun, hang by the pool and play some blackjack or whatever. It's not like I'm gonna cheat on you or anything. I told you that the other day."
> 
> Me: "Of course I want to believe that...I love you...and I've always trusted you implicity, I've ALWAYS knows that no matter what happens, YOU HAVE MY BACK. I've never had one reason, ever, to doubt you for one second until all this weirdness came up recently. Of course I want to believe it's a 'friends' trip. But since you lied about this to me you have to admit I'll be having a bit of trouble buying that right now."
> 
> Her: "You're right, it was stupid, sorry. I mean, WTF, I'm lying to you about stuff...don't know how to fix it. But I only did because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I knew you'd think it was wrong and be mad at me, and I haven't been able to just relax in so long, been on the road forever and it's always full with work, and the last couple times I've come home we're not having much fun and I don't fully relax, and then back on the road...just want to hang with some friends and have fun for a couple days, then I'll be home and we can figure it out. I know it looks bad, but no worries."
> 
> Me: "Sorry - it does look bad, and I don't think it's cool for you to just go and do this, especially after me asking you not to for obvious reasons. You know that. You're putting yourself in a bad situation with this trip. I know you're a big girl and can take care of yourself, but why even go there? I don't want to tell you what to do, but I pretty much have to here. So I don't know how to fix something like this either, but it seems like the easiest way to start would be to COME HOME, because clearly this weekend is not going to do us any good. Or...since I have the weekend free, I'd love to come out and tear it up with you guys. We always have fun in Party City. Pick one."
> 
> Her: "I'm going, sorry, I'd just rather it not be our trip, we've got that trip to _______ coming up, it's all good. I just really need this time. Don't be mad. I got a meeting in a few minutes, okay? Gotta go, love you."
> 
> Me: Alright then.
> 
> 
> ** Note: Emotions never got hot in the conversation. She didn't quiver or sound like she was nervous, or cry or anything. Neither did I. Really wish I had heard some nerves in her voice...and would love to have seen her body language.


Well you did very well. But it depends on what you do with alright then. I would have told her this was unacceptable to me and a deal breaker.

So the OM travels with her and then they end that trip with a party. One in which she would not change her plans for you. Even when you caught her. Out and out saying I lied to you and am doing it behind your back because we both know it would upset you. And I do not want you to be here because you would ruin my fun (c0ckbl0ck). We are not doing well. Are the friends just these two guys?

I have different boundaries than some, but to me my wife scheduling this type of trip with two guys even if there was not history would be an unfaithful act all by itself. Let alone secret. And you guys are not having much fun. i.e. not having sex. So she needs to have some fun so she goes there with them.

You got your confirmaion which was the goal. Yes we were hoping she would have picked up on one of the chances you gave her.

1) You going there to see her. She could have changed plans
2) She could have had you meet her in Party City
3) You told her to come home. She refused. Knows this hurts you but does not care.

You gave her at least these and maybe more to stop what she was about to do. So you can give yourself credit for giving this a great shot. There is no doubt she is doing this in your face now. Her fix for her long trips away from you is to go party with a couple of OM before coming home. Messed up


----------



## the guy

This was my marriage for 13 years and it sucked she did her thing and I did mine and you know what????her friends.... my friends...none of them are goning to take care of us when were old!

Alls we have is each other to count on and your POS wife doesn't see that some one truely loves her and wants to grow old with her.

I'm pissed, she doesnt get it and thank god you have prepared for the worse and are hoping for the best. She has made her bed..... what an idiot she is.

I mean she knows you know, and continues to manage you like you don't know, but will not take the steps to iron this out, and continue towards the path of distruction.

I know I'm preaching to the preacher, but I'm frusturated b/c I've been down this road. Unlike you I choose the unhealthy path of.... lets say...."f~ck it I don't care"....I'll do my thing she can do her thing". As unhealthy as my case *was*, I commend you on your perserverence and commitment to better your self.


Sorry for the rant!!!!!! she just doesn't get it!!!!!! 

There is plenty of PI's in "party city"....alot of retired security guy's looking for work, and they know the town and the right folks to grease to get the info you need. 

She is blowing smoke up your butt, so nail her and bring this crap to light of day so she can no long hide under the cover of darkness, if you don't she will only push her shame/guilt so far back in her mind she will never ever see her wrong.

Thats how they sleep at night...erase it from there minds...black it out so the pain is gone, but you will change that you will make her face the reality.


Sorry I'm still ranting....this hits close to home and excuse the spelling...my emotions have got the best of me.

One last thing, remember when you confront, don't empower her by being all water works. Show some confidence and empower your self by letting her know that you want a healthy marriage with her and will move on with out her if she continues.

I'm done....good luck


----------



## Shaggy

You should have asked about the sexy lingere she's taken with her.

Well, you now have your answer, and she knows you tried.

Monday serve the lying witch her papers.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> This was my marriage for 13 years and it sucked she did her thing and I did mine and you know what????her friends.... my friends...none of them are goning to take care of us when were old!
> 
> Alls we have is each other to count on and your POS wife doesn't see that some one truely loves her and wants to grow old with her.
> 
> I'm pissed, she doesnt get it and thank god you have prepared for the worse and are hoping for the best. She has made her bed..... what an idiot she is.
> 
> I mean she knows you know, and continues to manage you like you don't know, but will not take the steps to iron this out, and continue towards the path of distruction.
> 
> I know I'm preaching to the preacher, but I'm frusturated b/c I've been down this road. Unlike you I choose the unhealthy path of.... lets say...."f~ck it I don't care"....I'll do my thing she can do her thing". As unhealthy as my case *was*, I commend you on your perserverence and commitment to better your self.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the rant!!!!!! she just doesn't get it!!!!!!
> 
> There is plenty of PI's in "party city"....alot of retired security guy's looking for work, and they know the town and the right folks to grease to get the info you need.
> 
> She is blowing smoke up your butt, so nail her and bring this crap to light of day so she can no long hide under the cover of darkness, if you don't she will only push her shame/guilt so far back in her mind she will never ever see her wrong.
> 
> Thats how they sleep at night...erase it from there minds...black it out so the pain is gone, but you will change that you will make her face the reality.
> 
> 
> Sorry I'm still ranting....this hits close to home and excuse the spelling...my emotions have got the best of me.
> 
> One last thing, remember when you confront, don't empower her by being all water works. Show some confidence and empower your self by letting her know that you want a healthy marriage with her and will move on with out her if she continues.
> 
> I'm done....good luck


There is nothing more a PI needs to discover. Even if her story were true, which it is not. She lied to her husband and went there with two guys knowing he would be upset. That is a deal breaker. That is single behavior. No that is party girl single behavior. She keeps saying they are not having fun. So she has decided to go have her fun with these two guys. One of which already spent the previous time with her at her work site. I am saying just with the information her knows without a reasonable doubt she is being unfaithful.

He needs to present her with the papers when she gets home. There are better women out there. He should not waste any more of his time and energies. 

BTW, she may come home and want sex with you. Probably not. But it is possible. A power play.

Don't be surprised if the two guys show up at your house for her to pick up her things.


----------



## the guy

Yes, serve her papers, serve them b/c she has disregarded her vows as a married women. The convo. the two of you had was nothing but cake eating on her part. 

S- you handled it well sir.....


Who cares if you have proof...the convo the both of you had says enough. Her behavior...her words indicates that the marriage comes second.

I know you get it, but I just can't believe the simularities I once saw in my WW.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> You should have asked about the sexy lingere she's taken with her.
> 
> Well, you now have your answer, and she knows you tried.
> 
> Monday serve the lying witch her papers.


Shaggy, since I had asked her about the lingerie last Friday the night before she left, didn't feel the need to say it again.

And I do have my answer. F**k.

I kinda hope she freaks out and starts saying crazy s**t when I hand her the papers, like about how much better he is than me, and bigger, and, and, and...then I can smile , look her in the eye and say "Just want to thank you for making this decision so easy for me."

(and ten bucks he has a 2-incher)


----------



## Shaggy

Did you say OM is married? This maybe the time to contact his wife or GF and tell her about your wife and him going to party city for the weekend. 

she may think he's off working or something.

Time to bring some pain into his life.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Well you did very well. But it depends on what you do with alright then. I would have told her this was unacceptable to me and a deal breaker.


It was a flippant "alright then". Kind of a "well, if that's your decision, you can live with it".

Wish I could've closed on a stronger note, but the inflection in my voice was pretty clear. She knows what I meant.

And since she already explicity knows from last week that any PA is unacceptable and a dealbreaker, didn't feel the need to repeat. People don't forget something like that.

Thanks for the props though on the rest of the dealings...guess having this time to think over all the ways to handle it is paying off a bit. Now just have to do the final deed with style and respect for myself and I can close the book and move on.


----------



## the guy

E-
WW black this crap out...they push it so far back in there minds they stop seeing the reality of it when they get back home.

The sure way to bring the reality back and dig up the dirt that they have buried so deep in there minds is to show them! Making them face the evil that they have pushed away. Showing them the acts that they have force out of their head so they can come home and face their husband and sleep at night.

I agree there is enough there to face the reality, but I'm talking about a nuclear explosion that ignites the WW with the fact that she is so wrong that not even god will let her in the pearly gates with out some major changes from her part.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Did you say OM is married?


Sadly, I discovered with a marriage records search this week that he's no longer married. ****. That means I can't tear apart his life like he's done such a good job of doing to mine.

Though he may have a girlfriend back home, I don't know. Just not the same, and not worth my time without a broken vow on his end. What an a******.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Time to bring some pain into his life.


Though just because he's not married doesn't mean that I can't figure out a great way to do just what you suggest. Gotta plan that one out though, certainly don't wanna jump to something too soon and spoil the impact. And would want it to come off classy while stinging pretty good. For example, last night at a gas station I was talking with a buddy of mine about how best to get back at this guy. I just said, "Hey, let's ask him" (some random guy byuying a Coke). I said, "Excuse me...say some d-bag moved in on your wife and she took the bait, and ruined a marriage...what would you send him to get him back with style?". He said, "I'd send him a picture message of my c**k with F**K Y** written on it with a Sharpie. I laughed my ass off, but that's probably not where I want to take this. 

So...Any thoughts?


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> BTW, she may come home and want sex with you. Probably not. But it is possible. A power play.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha...I'll just tell her "I'm not really feeling that attracted to you right now, sorry. And hey - it's never really been our thing."
Click to expand...


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> It was a flippant "alright then". Kind of a "well, if that's your decision, you can live with it".
> 
> Wish I could've closed on a stronger note, but the inflection in my voice was pretty clear. She knows what I meant.
> 
> And since she already explicity knows from last week that any PA is unacceptable and a dealbreaker, didn't feel the need to repeat. People don't forget something like that.
> 
> Thanks for the props though on the rest of the dealings...guess having this time to think over all the ways to handle it is paying off a bit. Now just have to do the final deed with style and respect for myself and I can close the book and move on.


You did way better than I would have. Seriously. Just the fact you stayed calm. That is good Alpha behavior. And a flippant "alright then" is probably better than what I was saying.

What you were able to do was way better than waiting. You know that you gave her every chance the avoid this weekend and reconsile with you. So you won't have to wonder. You probably got more truth from her because you caught her off guard.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> E-
> WW black this crap out...they push it so far back in there minds they stop seeing the reality of it when they get back home.
> 
> The sure way to bring the reality back and dig up the dirt that they have buried so deep in there minds is to show them! Making them face the evil that they have pushed away. Showing them the acts that they have force out of their head so they can come home and face their husband and sleep at night.
> 
> I agree there is enough there to face the reality, but I'm talking about a nuclear explosion that ignites the WW with the fact that she is so wrong that not even god will let her in the pearly gates with out some major changes from her part.


Gotcha.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, she may come home and want sex with you. Probably not. But it is possible. A power play.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha...I'll just tell her "I'm not really feeling that attracted to you right now, sorry. And hey - it's never really been our thing."
> 
> 
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## nada

Dear Sham. I have followed this thread with great interest and I must say I am sorry for your situation. I have some experience with such a situation, but as I am not familiar with us legislation, I cannot comment on those aspects. I am happy for you that you are getting in shape and start building a life for yourself. There may be aspects of the history or relationship I do not understand as I am not US citizen, so take that into account when reading my comments.

As a humble advise - don't act out of anger, that may backfire. Do the things you need to do in a way that make the least emotional damage to you, and finally do things with integrity as a man with a strong spine.

I would like to respectfully kick your b.lls and I hope to wake you up (please get angry and see what she does to you). IMHO, you focus on her and what she did/does to you, not on yourself. Why not make a quick (cold) termination of the relationship and save you a lot of grief? Would you really WANT to see pics of her an another guy? The PI thing may be legally wise, but it will do you no good emotionally.

I was a bit surprised by the development of the call and what you said, but from my perspective you were telling her loud and clear that she has the power and you were begging her to come home. It made me feel sorry for you because you were wining like a girl. I may be harsh but why not telling her that you two need to have a serious conversation when she return from the trip? And then hang up and shut off the phone until she return home? She knows you suspect that she is cheating and she does not give a F..k.

Please stand up for yourself. You are letting her walk all over you as it is now. You are worth much more than the crap she put you through. You need to build youself up from scratch and defining your own standards and limits for acceptable female behaviour before you enter a new relationship. I think this will make you much stronger and better prepared for a far better relationship in the future. 

Guys, grow some spine instead of suggesting Sham to whine and complane to his wife. I does not serve his interests (IMHO).

BTW, I have been on all three sides of cheating so I know that it is painful and I am trying to be emphatic with your situation.

Best of luck, mate.

nada


----------



## Stonewall

nada said:


> Dear Sham. I have followed this thread with great interest and I must say I am sorry for your situation. I have some experience with such a situation, but as I am not familiar with us legislation, I cannot comment on those aspects. I am happy for you that you are getting in shape and start building a life for yourself. There may be aspects of the history or relationship I do not understand as I am not US citizen, so take that into account when reading my comments.
> 
> As a humble advise - don't act out of anger, that may backfire. Do the things you need to do in a way that make the least emotional damage to you, and finally do things with integrity as a man with a strong spine.
> 
> I would like to respectfully kick your b.lls and I hope to wake you up (please get angry and see what she does to you). IMHO, you focus on her and what she did/does to you, not on yourself. Why not make a quick (cold) termination of the relationship and save you a lot of grief? Would you really WANT to see pics of her an another guy? The PI thing may be legally wise, but it will do you no good emotionally.
> 
> I was a bit surprised by the development of the call and what you said, but from my perspective you were telling her loud and clear that she has the power and you were begging her to come home. It made me feel sorry for you because you were wining like a girl. I may be harsh but why not telling her that you two need to have a serious conversation when she return from the trip? And then hang up and shut off the phone until she return home? She knows you suspect that she is cheating and she does not give a F..k.
> 
> Please stand up for yourself. You are letting her walk all over you as it is now. You are worth much more than the crap she put you through. You need to build youself up from scratch and defining your own standards and limits for acceptable female behaviour before you enter a new relationship. I think this will make you much stronger and better prepared for a far better relationship in the future.
> 
> Guys, grow some spine instead of suggesting Sham to whine and complane to his wife. I does not serve his interests (IMHO).
> 
> BTW, I have been on all three sides of cheating so I know that it is painful and I am trying to be emphatic with your situation.
> 
> Best of luck, mate.
> 
> nada


I disagree. You can not make that determination via text. Without hearing the inflection of voice etc. One can not determine if it comes across as whining or very matter of fact and almost Spock like and logical.

Sham's explanation of events sounds like the latter. Since he is the only one to hear the conversation, I have no reason to think otherwise.


----------



## morituri

Let's say for the sake of argument that she is not cheating on SW and that the 'party city' thing is nothing but good, clean fun. The issue still remains that she doesn't give a damn about her husband or his feelings. She places partying with other men above being with her husband. That in and of itself is proof that the marriage, as it presently stands, is nothing more than a sham - just like her 'I love you'. For this alone, SW should divorce her.


----------



## Entropy3000

morituri said:


> Let's say for the sake of argument that she is not cheating on SW and that the 'party city' thing is nothing but good, clean fun. The issue still remains that she doesn't give a damn about her husband or his feelings. She places partying with other men above being with her husband. That in and of itself is proof that the marriage, as it presently stands, is nothing more than a sham - just like her 'I love you'. For this alone, SW should divorce her.


Exactly. And one reason why his call to her was so valuable. He got full validation to this level. He gave her opportunities to back out of this.

But there really is no reasonable doubt given the entirety of the information that she is having sex with one of more of these guys. Also all indoications are is that this has been going on a while. Lets not forget this OM traveled to her work site and stayed in a hotel near her. Also all of her secrecy. Add to that she wants ntohing to do with her husband. She bought sexy lingerie for her work trip and then took that onto party city with these men.

There is nothing plausible in her behavior. A faithful wife does none of this. Oh and they have not had sex in a very long time. She is having all the sex she can handle.


----------



## librarydragon

Can I chime in with a little female perspective? Your WIFE just told you that she's spending a weekend in party city with two other men...and you essentially gave her the OK?!? Your conversation (which sounded desperate) only added to her already obvious disdain for you. 

You've already determined that divorce is your next course of action, so why are you worried about kissing her a**? She clearly thinks you're a patsy, or she wouldn't even consider behaving as she is right now.

If I were your wife (and I can't even imagine treating my husband so callously), only one thing might make an impact at this point. Pack up your stuff this weekend (taking an equitable half), leave the divorce papers on the kitchen counter, stop your financial contributions to the household, and become inaccessible. Don't answer your phone or your email, and don't engage in any form of conversation that will allow her to try and justify her actions. 

Women respect strength. Show some now.


----------



## Entropy3000

librarydragon said:


> Can I chime in with a little female perspective? Your WIFE just told you that she's spending a weekend in party city with two other men...and you essentially gave her the OK?!? Your conversation (which sounded desperate) only added to her already obvious disdain for you.
> 
> You've already determined that divorce is your next course of action, so why are you worried about kissing her a**? She clearly thinks you're a patsy, or she wouldn't even consider behaving as she is right now.
> 
> If I were your wife (and I can't even imagine treating my husband so callously), only one thing might make an impact at this point. Pack up your stuff this weekend (taking an equitable half), leave the divorce papers on the kitchen counter, stop your financial contributions to the household, and become inaccessible. Don't answer your phone or your email, and don't engage in any form of conversation that will allow her to try and justify her actions.
> 
> Women respect strength. Show some now.


You have not read the entire thread. His purpose for calling her was not to kiss her ass. It was to get information and to give her a chance to back out of the situation. It did not sound like begging to me. I thought he was quite firm. Then again I had been reading the thread and interacting with it. So maybe taken out of context one could get a different view.

Anyway, he did not give his ok. "Alright then" was flippant and basically was an end to the situation for him. He got what he needed to get. He told her to come home. She refused. There was no point in continuing the conversation. He now hits her with the divorce papers.

I thought he handled this in a pretty Alpha way. He validated the situation. He confronted her on his terms. She was already gone from the marriage. Hopefully he is moving on.
Yes perhaps he should pack and have NC other than for legal means.


----------



## Stonewall

Entropy3000 said:


> You have not read the entire thread. His purpose for calling her was not to kiss her ass. It was to get information and to give her a chance to back out of the situation. He did not sound like begging to me. I thought he was quite firm. Then agin I had been reading the thread and interacting with it. So maybe taken out of context one could get a different view.
> 
> Anyway, he did not give his ok. "Alright then" was flippant and basically was an end to the situation for him. He got what he needed to get. He told her to come home. She refused. There was not point in continuing the conversation. He now hits her with the divorce papers.
> 
> I thought he handled this in a pretty Alpha way. He validated the situation. He confronted her on his terms. She was already gone from the marriage. Hopefully he is moving on.
> Yes perhaps he should pack and have NC other than for legal means.


:iagree:

I wholeheartedly agree!!


----------



## morituri

The 'fireworks' that will go off after she gets served with divorce papers should be quiet a sight. I don't think she's going to be ready for her D-day.


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> The 'fireworks' that will go off after she gets served with divorce papers should be quiet a sight. I don't think she's going to be ready for her D-day.


Curious to see how this goes down too. Haven't yet decided if I'll do it in person or just not be there. I think not picking her up at the airport (I'll be busy) will be a good start. If I do it in person I will be recording audio on my phone just in case it gets crazy.

All depends on whether or not she's in the fog and hasn't really processed or believed any of what I've said recently, or if she's just done and was looking for a way to prompt me to leave. Which would be cold, but whatever, at this point cold is what I expect.

She very well may just say, "Okay. I want out anyway." In which case I'll just say "Then we're agreed. Go stay at a hotel please."


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Curious to see how this goes down too. Haven't yet decided if I'll do it in person or just not be there. I think not picking her up at the airport (I'll be busy) will be a good start. If I do it in person I will be recording audio on my phone just in case it gets crazy.
> 
> All depends on whether or not she's in the fog and hasn't really processed or believed any of what I've said recently, or if she's just done and was looking for a way to prompt me to leave. Which would be cold, but whatever, at this point cold is what I expect.
> 
> She very well may just say, "Okay. I want out anyway." In which case I'll just say "Then we're agreed. Go stay at a hotel please."


I could see you just not being there at all. You can count on a serious fog. She proved that when you spoke with her. She probably still thinks she has you wrapped around her finger and has plans to cuckold you further. How much more cruel could she be? A woman cuckolding her husband and rubbing it in his face is pretty bad.

You have time to be outa there completely if that is in your plans.

Or you could pack all of her things and have them waiting for her to take with her. Again she may surprise you and bring the two guys with her to move her out. 

If you are not there you would not have to deal with that fabricated drama. Not saying you should avoid such conflict but that is a side show to what you are trying to do which is move on with your life. Choose wisely.

Are you ready to move out and never return? If so that is the best thing to do. You have a small window of time to move out what is important to you and get a place to stay. That is less money than she spent on this weekend.


----------



## seeking sanity

I'm with some of the others. Best thing to do is be gone, and inaccessible. It will create a ton of anxiety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Though we did reaffirm our vows a few days before 10-wk trip - anniversary night planned by me, reproposed, dancing, dinner, good lovin. She "happy" cried and everything. So she must've still dug me a little. The 10-wk trip was the killer, though I'm guessing d-bag was trying to work his way in much earlier.


I knew of a woman who was actively cheating on her husband, and he asked her directly about it. She denied it. They had an ongoing sex life, and they renewed their vows during this time. Eventually he found solid proof and tossed her out quick.

Those weren't happy tears. Those were tears of grief for what she already knew was gone, and for the dramatic irony that you did not know it.


----------



## the guy

Go with your gut, she will be in agreement with the divoce, she will be to hungover to muster up any strength in fighting. She will blow you off and will want to talk later when she is not hungover.

I have a feeling she will agree with what ever you want and will then go to sleep. Sure she will deny any wrong doing, but that is no longer the point. She has checked out of the marriage and will be in no shape to discuss anything with you when she arrives.

After she catches up with her sleep, after being up for the last 72 hours she will then have the rest and strength to manage you. Just like she managed you when you last talked. So in my opinion you need the best impact possible, "the most bang for your buck" if you will, that will shake her to her core.

Be it kicking her out of a house that is in her name or leaving with out a word, or coming home to find another women in your bed......bad idea....stick with either packing her sh~t or packing yours.

I think confronting her in her state will be pointless, especially after the last conversation the both of you had. I think you already know she will be like "what ever" and then go and sleep off her hangover.


----------



## Shamwow

Worst weekend EVER for trying to move out of my house. I am so behind on my work from being so preoccupied this week, that I'm slammed today and tomorrow. Hopefully I can be done before Monday (work is due that day), so I can have that whole day to do what I need to do. Guaranteed she won't be coming home on a morning flight. Expect her prob no earlier than 7pm. But then again, I wouldn't f**king know, because she has not bothered to mention when she plans to come back. And she changed the PIN on her airline account login just the other day. Sneaky.

Monday will be an insane day. Wonder if I should ask around for some Xanax.

Plus we have two dogs. I can have them stay with some friends of ours that usually sit for our dogs and vice versa, but the wife in that couple is a lifelong friend of hers. She will not take my pups. At least not both of them.

I'll try to power through my work tonight and tomorrow and then lock down what I have to do. I can get most of my stuff moved to a storage locker at least, probably take half a day on Monday.

Sigh...


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Just talked to her.
> 
> I told her I couldn't wait to see her, and that I booked tix for tomorrow to go where she is, know she's busy but we can at least grab dinner or a few beers and spend the night together. She said she actually won't be there, so I should cancel the tix (hey - a bit of truth!). I asked where she'll be. She then admitted to going to Party City tomorrow, and says it's something her and some friends have been trying to put together for like a year, finally found a chance to do it.
> 
> [To Paraphrase]
> 
> Me: "Huh. Well I gotta ask - Why didn't you tell me you were going there?
> 
> Her: "Because I knew you wouldn't like it."
> 
> Me: "Why not? I love Party City."
> 
> Her: "Because I want to go have fun with my friends, and didn't want you to come along, since (again) we're not having a whole lot of fun right now."
> 
> Me: "Well that sucks...I can understand wanting to party it up with friends, but when I make big plans you're always the first part of them, so you can understand why I'm not thrilled for you and your trip at the moment. We'd probably have a blast."
> 
> Her: "Also, I knew you wouldn't like who's going. ______ and ______." (both guys...and yes, OM is one of them)
> 
> Me: "Well, gotta tell you...you were right. I don't like it. I can't imagine I'd like it even if you had told me you were going in advance, but since you hid it from me and lied about it, it really doesn't leave me much else to think except the worst-case scenario here. So you're going with _____, the guy who you told me was thinking about flying to hook up with his ex a couple months ago (has a gf in town), and ______, the guy that texts you constantly and obviously wants more from you than you either realize, or than you're telling me about. Nope, don't like it at all."
> 
> Her: "We're just friends, I just want to go have fun, hang by the pool and play some blackjack or whatever. It's not like I'm gonna cheat on you or anything. I told you that the other day."
> 
> Me: "Of course I want to believe that...I love you...and I've always trusted you implicity, I've ALWAYS knows that no matter what happens, YOU HAVE MY BACK. I've never had one reason, ever, to doubt you for one second until all this weirdness came up recently. Of course I want to believe it's a 'friends' trip. But since you lied about this to me you have to admit I'll be having a bit of trouble buying that right now."
> 
> Her: "You're right, it was stupid, sorry. I mean, WTF, I'm lying to you about stuff...don't know how to fix it. But I only did because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, I knew you'd think it was wrong and be mad at me, and I haven't been able to just relax in so long, been on the road forever and it's always full with work, and the last couple times I've come home we're not having much fun and I don't fully relax, and then back on the road...just want to hang with some friends and have fun for a couple days, then I'll be home and we can figure it out. I know it looks bad, but no worries."
> 
> Me: "Sorry - it does look bad, and I don't think it's cool for you to just go and do this, especially after me asking you not to for obvious reasons. You know that. You're putting yourself in a bad situation with this trip. I know you're a big girl and can take care of yourself, but why even go there? I don't want to tell you what to do, but I pretty much have to here. So I don't know how to fix something like this either, but it seems like the easiest way to start would be to COME HOME, because clearly this weekend is not going to do us any good. Or...since I have the weekend free, I'd love to come out and tear it up with you guys. We always have fun in Party City. Pick one."
> 
> Her: "I'm going, sorry, I'd just rather it not be our trip, we've got that trip to _______ coming up, it's all good. I just really need this time. Don't be mad. I got a meeting in a few minutes, okay? Gotta go, love you."
> 
> Me: Alright then.
> 
> 
> ** Note: Emotions never got hot in the conversation. She didn't quiver or sound like she was nervous, or cry or anything. Neither did I. Really wish I had heard some nerves in her voice...and would love to have seen her body language.


Amazing how some people will still lie even when caught red-handed. I came home early to my first wife in bed with her lover, both asleep, and she still tried to tell me it was innocent.


----------



## the guy

Moving can be a pain in the butt, but it will leave your wife with a profound impact. An impact that will make her second guess her choices in life. So well played sir.
IMO I think this move will be the eye opener she needs to see that her H (you) is confident in moving on with out her and if she wants to keep you around she will need to make some serious changes.

Talk is cheap and actions speak loader then word, so again I commend you on the tough action you are taking to make a very serious point.


----------



## librarydragon

Oh, I read the entire thread. The divorce papers were a great start to a strong stand, but then it kind of fizzled with the phone call. This woman has shown a gross level of deceit, and a complete lack of remorse for the lies and her wayward ways. She still seems to think that they have their own romantic getaway planned upon her return. WTF? I agree with nada that the conversation came across as begging. I'm betting his wife thought the same.


----------



## morituri

The time for talking has passed, it is time for you to pack your bags, wait for the divorce papers to arrive, and then leave before she returns. In the meantime, DON'T answer any of her calls or texts. It's her turn to sweat with uncertainty about what may be happening with you.


----------



## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> Oh, I read the entire thread. The divorce papers were a great start to a strong stand, but then it kind of fizzled with the phone call. This woman has shown a gross level of deceit, and a complete lack of remorse for the lies and her wayward ways. She still seems to think that they have their own romantic getaway planned upon her return. WTF? I agree with nada that the conversation came across as begging. I'm betting his wife thought the same.


Trying here guys. I am not a big p***y, though (like 90% of men) I may have been more of a nice guy than I should at times in our marriage. Big deal. The fact that she looks at me that way right now has nothing to do with reality. She has checked out. Never been a problem until a few months ago. Being civil yet direct to my wife is not begging. Giving her a clear chance to realize I know what's up and do not approve and there are lines that can't be uncrossed is not begging.

I didn't say "Please don't do this without me! I'll feel so left out and you're hurting my feelings, don't you see?! What will I do sitting her thinking about you with those other guys!!! What if you sleep with one of them, you're all I have and I miss you so bad, I promise I'll make it a fun weekend if you come home, or let me come with you! Pleeeeeease come home to me!!"

That would be begging.

I suppose I could've said, "Fine, but I won't be here when you get back." That would have been as direct and forceful as possible. But it also would've started an argument. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Alpha behavior dictates to avoid and ignore arguments. An Alpha states their case calmly and directly, and then walks away to let it sink in.

And not saying I'm a born and bred Alpha. I'd say most men have to learn to project Alpha, whether or not they naturally are inclined to. Too little too late? Maybe. But at least I can go out feeling right about it.

Trying here. Doing best I can w/cards this new doppelganger wife has thrown at me.

But I get it if that's the way it comes off to you, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't agree, and honestly don't CARE what she thinks of me anymore. Try to understand that please. She has had her chance to show she respects my pair.


----------



## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> She still seems to think that they have their own romantic getaway planned upon her return. WTF?


She does. I don't.


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> The time for talking has passed, it is time for you to pack your bags, wait for the divorce papers to arrive, and then leave before she returns. In the meantime, DON'T answer any of her calls or texts. It's her turn to sweat with uncertainty about what may be happening with you.


Agreed. She is supposed to be calling this evening. I will not answer or call back. I don't even know when she's planning to come home on Monday (if it even still is Monday). Don't think I'll be answering calls or texts on Monday when she's calling to fill me in on "when to pick her up at the airport". Not gonna happen.


----------



## librarydragon

morituri said:


> The time for talking has passed, it is time for you to pack your bags, wait for the divorce papers to arrive, and then leave before she returns. In the meantime, DON'T answer any of her calls or texts. It's her turn to sweat with uncertainty about what may be happening with you.


Totally agree that this the best plan of action. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this, and I'm not trying to be rude. I'm angry *for* you over the way she's treating you.


----------



## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> Totally agree that this the best plan of action.
> 
> I'm so sorry you're going through this, and I'm not trying to be rude. I'm angry *for* you over the way she's treating you.


I know, and that's why I didn't tell you you were wrong...if it came off that way to you, then sure, there's a chance it came off that way to her too.


----------



## librarydragon

Shamwow said:


> I didn't say "Please don't do this without me! I'll feel so left out and you're hurting my feelings, don't you see?! What will I do sitting her thinking about you with those other guys!!! What if you sleep with one of them, you're all I have and I miss you so bad, I promise I'll make it a fun weekend if you come home, or let me come with you! Pleeeeeease come home to me!!"
> 
> That would be begging.
> 
> I suppose I could've said, "Fine, but I won't be here when you get back." That would have been as direct and forceful as possible. But it also would've started an argument. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Alpha behavior dictates to avoid and ignore arguments. An Alpha states their case calmly and directly, and then walks away to let it sink in.


I think the above would be grovelling, with begging only marginally better. 

"Wife, I know exactly what you have planned for your weekend in party city. You have until X PM today to be on a plane home, or you can consider our marriage over." No argument, no conflict. A simple statement of facts.

She doesn't respect your pair. She doesn't even think you have a pair.


----------



## the guy

Give the guy a break that time has past and its time to confront her on your term and when your ready.
As long as you keep your distance she will not beable to manage you, no more BS and the simple fact that you have moved on. When she's walking home from the airport, she can reflect on her action towards you and consider the bad choices she has made.


----------



## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> "Wife, I know exactly what you have planned for your weekend in party city. You have until X PM today to be on a plane home, or you can consider our marriage over." No argument, no conflict. A simple statement of facts.


Makes sense, that would definitely be Alpha and direct. But remember that she's already been with this guy for the last week on her current jobsite, and lied about it. Odds are this is not the first time, as she became distant 2 months ago now. My line was crossed, the line has always been clear, and I reiterated it before she left. What the hell do I care now if she does 5 Chippendales at the same time this weekend? I mean, I wouldn't want to SEE it, but it's her life now, not mine. What she did can't be undone, and what she does from here on out is her own business.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Agreed. She is supposed to be calling this evening. I will not answer or call back. I don't even know when she's planning to come home on Monday (if it even still is Monday). Don't think I'll be answering calls or texts on Monday when she's calling to fill me in on "when to pick her up at the airport". Not gonna happen.


I don't disagree with your plan, but since she will have the phone on in order to call, why not leave her a message that if she waits until Monday, divorce papers will be waiting? Then absolutely do not answer the calls or talk to her. Coming home sooner probably will not save the marriage, but she doesn't have to know that. I think that I'm too alpha, admittedly, but the only one doing any nervous sweating should be her, and the current plan doesn't do that.


----------



## the guy

His wife can always say "the hell with it" and party more, even though it doesn't matter right now. Kinda like "well he's leaving any way,lets party"
I still like the nice suprise she'll get when she comes home. She had her chance and failed! IMO


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> Amazing how some people will still lie even when caught red-handed. I came home early to my first wife in bed with her lover, both asleep, and she still tried to tell me it was innocent.


Yes, this is exactly I think the situation. She will deny no matter what.


----------



## Entropy3000

Well there is no talking to her now. She decided to party with the other men instead. His conversation with her earlier was validation. He should not now talk to her and tell her to do anything. Even if he was more blunt and so on. This would come off as weak and desparate. 
Anything like that had to be said in that other phone call.

He did well on the phone call to not be upset. That was very good. He should be gone when she gets home. The weakest thing in the world would be for him to negagotiate with her now. i.e. fly home now and I will not divorce you. He already did that in his previous call. He needs to follow through.

I think the only thing more she could do to him is bring the guys home and screw them in front of him. Seriously. She may deny everything or she may go the other extreme and revel in telling him what she did with the other guys and how they were better than him or whatever. Just to rub his nose in it. She is really doing that now. She just used other words.

Anyway, it sounds like he will not be gone when she gets back. He indicated he was not meeting her at the airport. Well come on now how could he if he does not know when she is coming back. I guess he did not write that info down when he was in her account.


----------



## the guy

:iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Just got a text from my wife:

"I didn't go to Vegas. Alone at hotel one more night. I'll book a flight home for sometime tomorrow."

Ummm...wtf?


----------



## Shamwow

Of course I presume she's not alone at the hotel, as we've all been over...but why the sudden change? Lover's quarrel? Felt horrible and saw the light? Not sure how to respond.


----------



## Shamwow

Freaking out here guys!


----------



## Entropy3000

We don't know what is up. BUT, I am guessing your call was as good as we thought it was. Again I think you came off as calm and Alpha. I did not see you as weak. I don't think she did either. Woman like that. I am not saying that is all of it.

As they say, you have to be willing to lose someone to keep them. That is why folks want guys to be assertive. Not being assertive is weak. Being assertive is strong. Weak drives women away. Strength has value.

Anyway, this is interesting. Things just got more complicated. LOL. 

We are here for you buddy! I don't know what to hope for. She has a lotta splainin to do.

Remember, weakness pushes them away. Stay strong.


----------



## Shamwow

I guess I'll give her a call and see what she says


----------



## aug

I would let her wait for your answer while you think matters over. What's the hurry?


----------



## aug

Dont you have your work report/project due Monday? Work on that while your brain ponder on her situation in the background.


----------



## Shamwow

W...T...F...


----------



## nada

Stonewall said:


> I disagree. You can not make that determination via text. Without hearing the inflection of voice etc. One can not determine if it comes across as whining or very matter of fact and almost Spock like and logical.
> 
> Sham's explanation of events sounds like the latter. Since he is the only one to hear the conversation, I have no reason to think otherwise.



I may have misunderstood, but he wrote that he talked to her, not txted her. If the quite is accurate, he was wining like a girl, which is not very masculine and probably the reason she is cheating.

Do anyone believe she is not?

Nada


----------



## nada

librarydragon said:


> Can I chime in with a little female perspective? Your WIFE just told you that she's spending a weekend in party city with two other men...and you essentially gave her the OK?!? Your conversation (which sounded desperate) only added to her already obvious disdain for you.
> 
> You've already determined that divorce is your next course of action, so why are you worried about kissing her a**? She clearly thinks you're a patsy, or she wouldn't even consider behaving as she is right now.
> 
> If I were your wife (and I can't even imagine treating my husband so callously), only one thing might make an impact at this point. Pack up your stuff this weekend (taking an equitable half), leave the divorce papers on the kitchen counter, stop your financial contributions to the household, and become inaccessible. Don't answer your phone or your email, and don't engage in any form of conversation that will allow her to try and justify her actions.
> 
> Women respect strength. Show some now.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Whip Morgan

You know she is with the OM. You know she is cheating on you. I think I'd respond along the lines of:

"don't bother. Enjoy the weekend with your boyfriend"

Stay strong shamwow. Too many threads or the loyal spouses being suckered into false Rs by "remorseful" disloyals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nada

librarydragon said:


> Oh, I read the entire thread. The divorce papers were a great start to a strong stand, but then it kind of fizzled with the phone call. This woman has shown a gross level of deceit, and a complete lack of remorse for the lies and her wayward ways. She still seems to think that they have their own romantic getaway planned upon her return. WTF? I agree with nada that the conversation came across as begging. I'm betting his wife thought the same.


I feel sorry for Sham, but he need to grow a spine. He has been feminized into a wussyboy his wife does not respect or is attracted to.

Guys, wake up!


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> Trying here guys. I am not a big p***y, though (like 90% of men) I may have been more of a nice guy than I should at times in our marriage. Big deal. The fact that she looks at me that way right now has nothing to do with reality. She has checked out. Never been a problem until a few months ago. Being civil yet direct to my wife is not begging. Giving her a clear chance to realize I know what's up and do not approve and there are lines that can't be uncrossed is not begging.
> 
> I didn't say "Please don't do this without me! I'll feel so left out and you're hurting my feelings, don't you see?! What will I do sitting her thinking about you with those other guys!!! What if you sleep with one of them, you're all I have and I miss you so bad, I promise I'll make it a fun weekend if you come home, or let me come with you! Pleeeeeease come home to me!!"
> 
> That would be begging.
> 
> I suppose I could've said, "Fine, but I won't be here when you get back." That would have been as direct and forceful as possible. But it also would've started an argument. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Alpha behavior dictates to avoid and ignore arguments. An Alpha states their case calmly and directly, and then walks away to let it sink in.
> 
> And not saying I'm a born and bred Alpha. I'd say most men have to learn to project Alpha, whether or not they naturally are inclined to. Too little too late? Maybe. But at least I can go out feeling right about it.
> 
> Trying here. Doing best I can w/cards this new doppelganger wife has thrown at me.
> 
> But I get it if that's the way it comes off to you, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't agree, and honestly don't CARE what she thinks of me anymore. Try to understand that please. She has had her chance to show she respects my pair.


Shamwow: It is not what you said in actual WORDS, but what you communicated to her. Women are far better than men at this, and as the female reader commented, you appeared weak in this situation. It does not matter for this relationship anymore, but I would suggest that you work on male-female communication between this sh.t and your next relationship.

My comments are intended to serve your best interests.

Rgds
nada


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> W...T...F...


me?

Why is there a need to respond right now? Cant it wait till tomorrow at least?


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> Freaking out here guys!




This may also be called a mindf.ck. Do you really trust her? She could be exhausted after being gangb.nged by her coworkers.

Ignore her, dont cave in. She is testing you!


----------



## nada

Whip Morgan said:


> You know she is with the OM. You know she is cheating on you. I think I'd respond along the lines of:
> 
> "don't bother. Enjoy the weekend with your boyfriend"
> 
> Stay strong shamwow. Too many threads or the loyal spouses being suckered into false Rs by "remorseful" disloyals.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

I called. She said she decided not to go because she was feeling kinda down. I asked why. She said something about her her next job just fell through...and that's where it gets weird.

She got choked up.

[to paraphrase again]

Me: "You don't feel like going out to party this weekend anymore?" She said no, she just wanted to come home. She's been working and on the road so much, she'd just feeling kinda lost. [Meanwhile, I'm preparing a cool hard blast like "Wrong answer. I was expecting you to say you realized how disrespectful and wrong it was to plan to go to Vegas with a couple GUYS without telling me, and then lying about it, and you decided respecting your marriage and your husband was more important than some bs fling."...but I decided to let her talk, because I had no idea where it was going and didn't want to close her down]

Me: "Lost how? Because of the job?"

Her: (starting to cry) "*I just feel like I don't have any self-worth anymore*."

Me: "Why would you feel that way because of a job? You get new offers every day, and you even quit your last one because it sucked."

Her: "I don't know, I just feel really down, and I want to come home."

Me: "And you're there alone? Everyone else flew out?"

Her: "Yeah"...

[at this point she starts talking to a waitress who asked her if she wanted the bill]

To waitress: "no, just close it out. I don't have any friends here anymore. Nope, they're all gone." [nervous laugh, with a little shakiness to it]

Her (back to me): "So yeah, I'm just feeling really awful for some reason and I want to come home and see you and the dogs."

[At this point she was having trouble talking, she was really crying]

Me: "Tell me what's wrong."

Her: "I can't talk anymore right now, because I just start crying. Crying on a patio downtown, and feeling stupid...so I should go, can I call you later?"

Me: "I'm up working, I'll be around. [then, for some reason I said] Hey, life is good, right?" [kicking myself for throwing anything positive out here - would take it back if I could]

Her: "Yes...you're right. [nervous laugh] Life is good. I'll book a flight when I get back to the hotel and call you then."

Me: "Okay, bye."

Her: "Bye."


So...I think we can all figure out what happened. She most likely did the deed, and is regretting it bigtime (is it possible she waited until today, even though D-Bag McGee was out there all week?). Perhaps they messed around all week, and had a fight today, or he dumped her. Perhaps she realized what a crazy, hurtful b***h she had been to me and doesn't know how to live with it now.
NOT the turn of events I had expected tonight.


----------



## Shamwow

And let the "call shamwow a p***y" comments commence for not telling her to go f**k herself and die. Will not apologize for calling to hear what she had to say, and not stomping my proverbial foot on her face. That will come when she comes home and admits this s**t to me to my face. My spine is just fine.


----------



## Whip Morgan

She might come clean once she gets face to face. But as you'll see in the infidelity board, they rarely do. Listen Sham, you've gotten lots of good advice here. This move is surprising. I wish you well with all this, and I understand you're thrown off here. I urge you to do one thing. Read back through your posts. It'll remind you what has happened: your wife has been cheating on you. It's hard to know what will happen and what she will say. You know the truth, use it. Bring it up directly. Dont let her hide behind tears. Remember what i said about being suckered by the "remorseful" wayward spouse. But who knows, she may not confess. Be prepared to bring the hammer down. Stay strong bud!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks Whip. I'll do that...and people, please realize I hardly know what day it is from the whirlwind of s**t that has been my last week. Trying to stay sane, hard to deal with things when the game keeps changing on me. But I guess the point is I need to keep MY game from changing, because all that stuff happened.

Never had to take on the waterworks from a WW before (only a wayward gf when I was like 20), not looking forward to it (if indeed she pulled her mutilated conscience out of the dumpster today). I know to expect it (thanks to all of you) and WILL screw my trucknutz on and play this as hard as it needs to be played.


----------



## Shamwow

when she calls later tonight I won't answer.


----------



## aug

She got dumped by her boyfriend(s).

She's going home to her backup person.

Shamwow, you are not a P____. Everyone handle their situation to their best ability.

She knows that you know. She knows that she stuck it to your face. She got dumped. She's upset she got dumped.

Once she has breached the threshold, it'll be easier for her the next time.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham, there is a member of this board names Morituri. Usually posts in the infidelity board, not sure if he has seen your thread. On his posts, he has links so threads called "the 180" and "letting them go". The main ideas behind them are to not manipulate a cheater to return, but to build confidence and self respect of the betrayed spouse. You're not as shattered as some posters, but I highly suggest you seek those threads out. You should find them beneficial, especially as she prepares to come back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

I've seen the 180 list, and will read through as many of the related threads as I can get my hands on tonight.


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> when she calls later tonight I won't answer.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Shamwow, I tink you are on the right track . You have experienced a major crisis and it seems as you are coming out on top of the situation. 

This reminds me of the scene from The Matrix (#1), where Neo can choose what pill to take. Do he want to see the world like it really is, or does he want to live in the matrix? 

I hope you manage to stay strong, I know it is difficult when they come crying home.

Best wishes
Nada


----------



## seeking sanity

Shamwow - This is a different development. The 180 is premature.

You have a different decision now, and I'd encourage you to not get caught up in all this respect/alpha male stuff just yet. Being a ****/aggressive/angry is not alpha. Being in control of your emotions is.

First decision: Is infidelity truly a deal breaker for you? If you think you would consider R, even a little, if she met your conditions, then what happens next is important. You can always change your mind.

If so, when she comes home, you need to sit her down and tell her you are aware she's been cheating (don't let on how/what you know), you were on the verge of moving out and filing for divorce, and she has an opportunity RIGHT NOW to tell you her side. Tell her if she lies, is she denies, or anything else, you are leaving. Then let her talk.

She'll either see the gravity of the situation and start to come clean, or she'll deny and pull all the wayward BS.

IF she lies, then you do a 180. Not before.

Many people get past infidelity. People make mistakes, emotions take hold, people make poor choices. If happens, a lot.

If it's a deal breaker, then tell her that and move on.

Good luck.


----------



## morituri

The fact that her party plans changed and is now sad and depressed actually changes nothing that has transpired as far as her behavior towards her husband and all the circumstantial evidence pointing to an ongoing sexual affair. Let us not discount the possibility that she may text tomorrow that some 'business' related matter came up and that she's actually going to be staying where she's at for a few more days - I leave it to your imaginations what that might mean.

I am still of the opinion that SW should proceed with the divorce filing as scheduled. There's no more alpha behavior than pushing the nuclear countdown button and seeing if his wife does what is required of her for him to even consider aborting the nuclear detonation.

*Your marriage is expendable but your soul is not.*

P.S. Per Whip Morgan's request, click on the links below for more advice.


----------



## Chaparral

Hope this is just a case of prayers being answered Shamwow. Good luck. Miracles do happen whatever their source.

What a turn of events, wish Lordmayhem was here.


----------



## nada

chapparal said:


> Hope this is just a case of prayers being answered Shamwow. Good luck. Miracles do happen whatever their source.
> 
> What a turn of events, wish Lordmayhem was here.


...and they lived happily ever after...


----------



## Shamwow

Read the whole thread just now...tomorrow will be a strong day for me. Have me a nice calm confrontation with all the chips on the table. I think I got this. Thanks everyone.


----------



## the guy

S-
Mrs. the-guy is telling me that half the house is yours b/c your married and suggest you stay. As I diagree I recommend that down the road you use this property to help you reestablish your self.

possesion is 9/10 of the law!

Any way bro we both agree that she needs to change her tune, so good luck.


----------



## Entropy3000

morituri said:


> The fact that her party plans changed and is now sad and depressed actually changes nothing that has transpired as far as her behavior towards her husband and all the circumstantial evidence pointing to an ongoing sexual affair. Let us not discount the possibility that she may text tomorrow that some 'business' related matter came up and that she's actually going to be staying where she's at for a few more days - I leave it to your imaginations what that might mean.
> 
> I am still of the opinion that SW should proceed with the divorce filing as scheduled. There's no more alpha behavior than pushing the nuclear countdown button and seeing if his wife does what is required of her for him to even consider aborting the nuclear detonation.
> 
> *Your marriage is expendable but your soul is not.*
> 
> P.S. Per Whip Morgan's request, click on the links below for more advice.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

She has been cheating. Something came up that has thrown her party off. Maybe her boss found out she has been screwing around instead of working.

Maybe the OM banged another woman and is taking her to Vegas. Or simpler, she got dumped for some reason. Is her being dumped by the OM a reason to take her back? 

I do belive this really complicates things for you if you let it. I think you should keep your mind on the fact that she has been cheating. She is still not being honest with you. Maybe she will now.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham, I offered those links to prepare yourself. Seeking is right, the 180 could be premature. Who knows what she'll say? But be prepared for the lying, denial, lack of boundaries, blaming you, etc. I'd suggest reading those threads to give you strength when things get rough. I don't assume that she is going to fall to her knees, confess and beg forgiveness. Remember, this woman has been cheating, is aware you most likely know, and still wanted to go on her trip with her OM. Things can change, of course. But I'd advise preparing for the worst. The 180 and Letting Them Go involve maintaining the self respect, dignity and essentially the sanity of the betrayed spouse. It's more to help you prepare to move on in life and not be your spouses "Plan B". 

But we have no idea what she will say upon arrival. Id still be ready to file- the damage is done. She may want to come clean, but maybe not.

Upon reading a previous post, I didnt consider that someone else may have learned of this or OM changed plans. Her "breakdown" could have nothing to do with you. Hard to tell without keylogger or VAR evidence. She may have been caught. Keep that in mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Read the whole thread just now...tomorrow will be a strong day for me. Have me a nice calm confrontation with all the chips on the table. I think I got this. Thanks everyone.



I thought her text and phone call last night was that she is coming back today?


----------



## aug

the guy said:


> S-
> Mrs. the-guy is telling me that half the house is yours b/c your married and suggest you stay. As I diagree I recommend that down the road you use this property to help you reestablish your self.
> 
> possesion is 9/10 of the law!
> 
> Any way bro we both agree that she needs to change her tune, so good luck.



Shamwow mentioned in one of his eariler posts that the house is underwater. And I agree the house is 1/2 his (under legal concept of trust) if he wants it. Then, he will be responsible for all the legal and financial liabilities too.

Dont know if the mortgage is also in shamwow's name.


----------



## peacefully

From reading through the thread and hearing your wife's responses- my instinct (from a woman's POV) is that she was dumped by her lover. She may or may not come clean about her infidelity- but I'd assume that if she was dumped and decided to come back, she might try at some length to assuage her guilt by being a better wife, and she might also become passive aggressive and take out her frustrations on the marriage. Prepare yourself.
I hear that you want her back, that you want to work things out but be careful- and take some time to mourn the loss- because things will never be the same- pretending they will is magical thinking and will only serve to cause you to be disappointed and feel let down.
Move on with your life- let HER do the work to mend things, if that's the path you choose.


----------



## aug

peacefully said:


> From reading through the thread and hearing your wife's responses- my instinct (from a woman's POV) is that she was dumped by her lover. She may or may not come clean about her infidelity- but I'd assume that if she was dumped and decided to come back, she might try at some length to assuage her guilt by being a better wife, and she might also become passive aggressive and take out her frustrations on the marriage. Prepare yourself.
> I hear that you want her back, that you want to work things out but be careful- and take some time to mourn the loss- because things will never be the same- pretending they will is magical thinking and will only serve to cause you to be disappointed and feel let down.
> Move on with your life- let HER do the work to mend things, if that's the path you choose.


:iagree:

I'm a man and I think she got dumped too.

Who cries over losing a contract in business? Especially since she had lost other contracts before; did she cried all those times too?

Shamwow, you are being played (and it'll gnawed away at you down the road).


----------



## DanG

Consider the possibility and "opportunity" that this has been one big **** test - either conscious or subconscious. You have noted a lot of her actions which she easily could have been more descreat about, but chose for you to see or "discover." What about optimizing the situation to create a "fantasy " FAR more exciting and Alpha than she (or you) could have dreamed up. "She has been a VERY bad girl . . . " She has been a naughty little , SPOILED *****. She deserves to admit she was bad, apologize, and be prepared to make restitution to you. You could start with a semi-serious spanking. The rest is by your design . . . Or maybe you could BOTH could come up with a restitution/restoration plan. Be Alpha all the way. If you /she want to keep you marriage this could be an opportuniy to "make lemonaid out of lemons." On your end, YOU are are going to have to become a lot more Alpha - because it is obvious she needs it. - just my first time posting .02.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> I thought her text and phone call last night was that she is coming back today?


It was 2am last night when I wrote that. "Tomorrow" is today...


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> It was 2am last night when I wrote that. "Tomorrow" is today...


Thanks. The timestamp on the post said today.

Hope you are surviving...


----------



## Stonewall

aug said:


> She got dumped by her boyfriend(s).
> 
> She's going home to her backup person.
> 
> Shamwow, you are not a P____. Everyone handle their situation to their best ability.
> 
> She knows that you know. She knows that she stuck it to your face. She got dumped. She's upset she got dumped.
> 
> Once she has breached the threshold, it'll be easier for her the next time.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Stonewall

nada said:


> I may have misunderstood, but he wrote that he talked to her, not txted her. If the quite is accurate, he was wining like a girl, which is not very masculine and probably the reason she is cheating.
> 
> Do anyone believe she is not?
> 
> Nada


Wasn't talking about him texting her. My reference was to the fact that we are reading the text in his post as opposed to being able to hear the conversation. Many nuances and sarcasms can be noted in that way vs simply reading what someone wrote. I could have the exact same conversation with someone and be either whinning or a smart**s without changing the words whatsoever.


----------



## seeking sanity

Okay, this conjecture is really unhelpful: We don't know what she has done, or what has happened. Guessing and speculating on her getting dumped, or not getting dumped, or whatever is pointless and just creates drama. It's what school girls do.

Second guessing what he said, how he possibly said it, getting hung up on what he should of said, doesn't do anything but create anxiety for the guy. He is in a very stressful situation, his emotions are running all over the place, and needs some positive, actionable encouragement.

Being Alpha is not the cause or answer to all problems between men and women. 

It is okay for him to feel sad, anxious, scared, hurt, depressed, or whatever he is feeling. Men have feelings, and denying or creating shame around having those feelings is b*llsh*t. A major shift in an important relationship has just occurred. He doesn't know what exactly that shift will look like - reconciliation or divorce. Nobody knows.

Shamwow - I think you are handling this all very well. Much better than I did. If I could do everything all over again, when I confronted my wife, I would calmly state, "I know what is going on and that what happens in this conversation will determine our future."

And if you mess up, get emotional, cry, freak out, or she doesn't act how you expect or how you want, than don't beat yourself up. It happens to the best of us. A huge amount of things are going on for both you and your wife. Don't expect the next few months to follow some straight line.


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I'm a man and I think she got dumped too.
> 
> Who cries over losing a contract in business? Especially since she had lost other contracts before; did she cried all those times too?
> 
> Shamwow, you are being played (and it'll gnawed away at you down the road).


Of course she wasn't crying over a contract...she just didn't know what to say last night so she came up with something that was a bummer to blame it on for the time being.

Well aware that her tears most likely have nothing to do with me. But without getting it from her I can't be sure. I can only assume the worst, and plan for it. He may have banged someone else or told her "Thanks for the week, but" he didn't want to see her again. Or, she may have told him that she had to stop it...and he may have freaked out on her, etc. Or, she may have just stepped out of the fog for a moment and realized how much she has effed up her life and mine, and has no idea what she wants now and is freaking out.

[please feel free to comment on what I've laid out below, as I could use the input pretty quick]

Either way, when she comes home today I'll be prepared to sit her down stat. If she jumps in and starts spilling right away, I'll let her talk. If she doesn't, I'll tell her I know she's been cheating, and that I was not going to be here when she got back from Vegas, that I'd seen an attorney, and that papers were being drawn up as we speak. I'll tell her that I don't know what difference it will make, but if she doesn't tell me everything - from the beginning - and make it the truth, I'm leaving. I'll make it clear to not tell me just the truth she thinks I may already know, because I know plenty, and if she lies or denies what I already know to be true, the conversation will be over, and I'll be leaving and she can expect papers promptly.

Then we'll see what she says.

I won't be giving her a hug when she starts crying (or when she gets home for that matter), I won't be sitting next to her on the couch trying to comfort her as she talks. Rarely if ever call her by her first name, have called her "babe" for so many years it's ingrained. I will call her by her first name only. I plan to be standing, and several feet from her. Will try not to show any emotion whatsoever, and will try to project that I'm only there because she came home early and I haven't have a chance to move out yet.

If she stonewalls me or lies, I will just put up my hand and walk away, and say I'll be leaving now, good luck with everything, and don't call me.

The question is - IF she comes clean and I'm satisfied that she has laid it all out on the table (sure I won't get it all...but where's the line?)...do I go stay somewhere else anyway? Guess it depends on the things she tells me. Obviously, hearing about PA from her mouth will be hard, and I may just want to tell her "Thanks for telling your side. But I can't stand to be in the same room with you right now, I'm going to stay somewhere else." Or I could ask her to go stay somewhere else ("For how long?" "I don't know, I'll let you know"). Or is there ANY scenario where anyone thinks I should stay in the house with her tonight after the confrontation (she could have the couch)? What would most people need to hear and receive from a WS to justify not going nuclear?

(or should I not even leave that option open in my mind right now?)


----------



## Stonewall

Sham,

Your head is screwed on pretty straight for a man that has learned these things in the past few days.

My advice even if she comes clean you still need to leave. Legally if she refuses to leave; I don't think you can make her without an order for her to leave. The connotation that comes out of her refusing and you being unable to force her is one of her winning one part of this battle. Don't allow her this very small win.

If you you leave she has no control over this hence you maintain the power and deny her the ability to control you at all. 

That's my .02. I think you are on the right path, stay strong bro!


----------



## Stonewall

One last thing .......expect the unexpected. No matter what comes out of her mouth keep your poker face!


----------



## Shamwow

The hits just keep on coming.

Looks like it's nuclear. Just saw in her email that last night she indeed did book a flight home for today. Then cancelled it this morning at 6am. And has rebooked to Vegas for today thru Tuesday.

I am so pissed off right now...

She will call me to tell me this today. I will not answer or call back. Except maybe to text her back "Don't bother coming home on Tuesday. Have fun with your bf."

At least I can ruin her trip.


----------



## Anubis

Sham,
I don't have time for the long reply I would like to give, so let me just say this. 

No matter what she says or does, don't give in on anything or back down an inch. She is going to try to first disrupt your position and resolve and then try to regain control over the situation and you by any means (by saying anything she can think of). Even if she comes totally clean, don't back down an inch (there will be time for that later if she truly repents and turns her ways around). 

Be stone cold. Let her do all the talking and whatever and let he just see your unbreakable resolve. Send her away or go away, but don't let her spend her first night back in the same place as you. She most likely will try to initiate sex with you upon return. It is nothing more than a ploy to regain control over you.

How do I know this? Because I could be the future you. And the single greatest regret that I have is that I didn't hold my ground when I finally wised up and manned up.


----------



## Stonewall

Dude I feel your pain...I really do. Remember any emotion she is able to elicit from you is because she excersized power over you. sadness, anger , whatever! She made you feel that way. The best way to get her goat is whenever you act do it with a poker face.


----------



## Anubis

Wow... the things that happen while I am busy posting.

She's given you all the time you need to get your situation in order, and she's put the exclamation point on what she really thinks of you.

Expect her to still lob some mental hand grenades your way to keep you off balance and regain some power over you. Resist.


----------



## Stonewall

Anubis said:


> Wow... the things that happen while I am busy posting.
> 
> She's given you all the time you need to get your situation in order, and she's put the exclamation point on what she really thinks of you.
> 
> Expect her to still lob some mental hand grenades your way to keep you off balance and regain some power over you. Resist.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Her new flight to Vegas leaves in three hours. Perhaps she plans to call me once she gets there? Should I send her a text before her flight leaves to say "Don't bother coming home Tues, have fun with bf."? (or any better ideas?) Or wait until tonight when she's arrived there? That might make more of an effect. Feel like I have to make this trip bad for her somehow.

Guess she really doesn't think I have a pair. I'm done.

Sorry for the possible reconciliation drama, all. Just thought she may have had a change of heart. Clearly bf and her made up by 6am.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Of course she wasn't crying over a contract...she just didn't know what to say last night so she came up with something that was a bummer to blame it on for the time being.
> 
> Well aware that her tears most likely have nothing to do with me. But without getting it from her I can't be sure. I can only assume the worst, and plan for it. He may have banged someone else or told her "Thanks for the week, but" he didn't want to see her again. Or, she may have told him that she had to stop it...and he may have freaked out on her, etc. Or, she may have just stepped out of the fog for a moment and realized how much she has effed up her life and mine, and has no idea what she wants now and is freaking out.
> 
> [please feel free to comment on what I've laid out below, as I could use the input pretty quick]
> 
> Either way, when she comes home today I'll be prepared to sit her down stat. If she jumps in and starts spilling right away, I'll let her talk. If she doesn't, I'll tell her I know she's been cheating, and that I was not going to be here when she got back from Vegas, that I'd seen an attorney, and that papers were being drawn up as we speak. I'll tell her that I don't know what difference it will make, but if she doesn't tell me everything - from the beginning - and make it the truth, I'm leaving. I'll make it clear to not tell me just the truth she thinks I may already know, because I know plenty, and if she lies or denies what I already know to be true, the conversation will be over, and I'll be leaving and she can expect papers promptly.
> 
> Then we'll see what she says.
> 
> I won't be giving her a hug when she starts crying (or when she gets home for that matter), I won't be sitting next to her on the couch trying to comfort her as she talks. Rarely if ever call her by her first name, have called her "babe" for so many years it's ingrained. I will call her by her first name only. I plan to be standing, and several feet from her. Will try not to show any emotion whatsoever, and will try to project that I'm only there because she came home early and I haven't have a chance to move out yet.
> 
> If she stonewalls me or lies, I will just put up my hand and walk away, and say I'll be leaving now, good luck with everything, and don't call me.
> 
> The question is - IF she comes clean and I'm satisfied that she has laid it all out on the table (sure I won't get it all...but where's the line?)...do I go stay somewhere else anyway? Guess it depends on the things she tells me. Obviously, hearing about PA from her mouth will be hard, and I may just want to tell her "Thanks for telling your side. But I can't stand to be in the same room with you right now, I'm going to stay somewhere else." Or I could ask her to go stay somewhere else ("For how long?" "I don't know, I'll let you know"). Or is there ANY scenario where anyone thinks I should stay in the house with her tonight after the confrontation (she could have the couch)? What would most people need to hear and receive from a WS to justify not going nuclear?
> 
> (or should I not even leave that option open in my mind right now?)


My first impression is that this sounds pretty darn good. Staying this stoic in the face of a crying woman is tough on any man. You may get trickle truth.

She does not know you know the OM had made this trip with her. As far as you know he hooked up with her during the ten weeks. You guys have not had sex in a while. She will probably want sex from you and not want to talk. It is most likely that she was having sex with this guy for some time. Remember the lingerie / outfits. Her waxing and all the prep to make her sexy for another man. None of this was for you. You don't know where she has been. It is natural for a man to want to reclaim his mate. So the urge to have sex with her wlll likely be great. Just sayin. It would be best if you did not unless you are flat just going to forgive her. You can't know that as you are not sure what to forgive her for.

If she was dumped it is likely he could snap his fingers and call her back. One has to withdraw from an affair. Also if it is about being dumped then she is just as likely to find another lover.

You know what? I respect whatever you decide. I would not take her back though personally.

BUT if I did:

1) one of the requirements would be for her to quit her current job and find something with no travel, IMMEDIATELY. Like Monday. There is no way this relationship works with her going off on these trips even if she were totally comitted. It is too easy for her hookup.

2) NC with these two friends at least.

3) Total transparency. You have access to all of her accounts. She does not get to delete anything first. You get to see what is there now and in the future. You will be as transparent as well. This includes her phone(s).

4) This transparency also goes for credit cards usage. You get access to see her charges on her personal cards. 

5) No more close male friends. I learned I cannot have close female friends the hard way. This includes FB.

6) Test for STDs for the both of you. Again you don't know if she has been unfaithful to you in the past. It does not have to be with this guy. Yes the ten week trip seems to be the time.

She was rubbing your nose in this. This was not a sh!t test. Not saying that there were not sh!t tests involved. But this was about her cake eating at the least. Maybe she is planning on coming back and keeping her affair underground.

Also there is nothing wrong with speculating and trying to think of scenarios of what is going on. It is called thinking on your opponents time. This is serious stuff and not chess, but by running through the scenarios you can work out ahead of time how you are going to handle certain information and what your boundaries are is a good thing. Shooting from the hip is not a good idea. So think things through. I agree that at some point you exhaust yourself however. The key to this is to set your boundary and stick with it. Meaning if her banging one or more guys and lying to you about it is a deal breaker, which it would be for me then nothing she says could change your decision.

Women cuckold thier men all of the time. Not all women of course. Just saying it is common enough. To me that scenario is the equivalent of a rape for a man. It is a violation of the highest degree. We have no identity as a man if we allow such a thing. Therefore no woman could find us desireable in that circumstance.

Our top needs as men are usually 1) Sexual Fullment and 2) Respect and 3) Admiration.
All three assume a faithful wife. She has made a mockery of all three of these.

Good luck. No matter how tough any of us sound we are wired to protect the women we love. Even when they treat us badly. Again whatever you decide though you deserve some compassion and respect for what you are dealing with. This is tough stuff. You don't have kids though. That makes leaving a much easier thing to do than with many others.


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Shamwow said:


> The hits just keep on coming.
> 
> Looks like it's nuclear. Just saw in her email that last night she indeed did book a flight home for today. Then cancelled it this morning at 6am. And has rebooked to Vegas for today thru Tuesday.
> 
> I am so pissed off right now...
> 
> She will call me to tell me this today. I will not answer or call back. Except maybe to text her back "Don't bother coming home on Tuesday. Have fun with your bf."
> 
> At least I can ruin her trip.


Dear Mr. Shamwow,
Please divorce your 'wife'. The END.
*next patient please* :rofl:


----------



## seeking sanity

Dude, that sucks. As for the text, send whatever you want. It serves no strategic purpose other than to let her know you know, and to tell her to f*ck off.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> Her new flight to Vegas leaves in three hours. Perhaps she plans to call me once she gets there? Should I send her a text before her flight leaves to say "Don't bother coming home Tues, have fun with bf."? (or any better ideas?) Or wait until tonight when she's arrived there? That might make more of an effect. Feel like I have to make this trip bad for her somehow.
> 
> Guess she really doesn't think I have a pair. I'm done.
> 
> Sorry for the possible reconciliation drama, all. Just thought she may have had a change of heart. Clearly bf and her made up by 6am.


Others may disagree but I wouldn't do anything. Shes got someone there to comfort her and feed her whatever BS she wants to here and that will take the edge of for her. 

Just don't answer any calls from her let her figure out how to get home from the airport. In short just leave and leave the papers at home for her to see. When she gets there she will be by herself with no one to comfort her.


----------



## Stonewall

Star said:


> If I were in your shoes, I'd send a text asking "Why have you cancelled your flight home?" and she what BS response she can come up with to answer that, keep your cool, it sounds as though you know the deal and have made your mind up then when she finally does decide to come back home, clamly let her have it (the papers that is) don't rise to her, keep your dignity and head high.


No don't do this! You are currently gathering info that she doesn't know you are gathering. If you do this you tip your hand and lose that ability.

Keep your powder dry. Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!


----------



## Shamwow

I could still find out what hotel she's staying at and send some bubbly, and maybe a ginormous sex toy (double d**g?) with some lube up to the room. Maybe a lobster-gram? Strippers? Maybe order up $1000 of room service/10 pizzas?

Or just shut up, leave, and move on with my life. [yes, I know this is the answer]


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Don't txt or call her. Do not pick up when she calls either.
She has just released a torrent of piss all over you[TAMers: admittedly she has been micropissing on him all this while].
Even I am beginning to lose my respect for you.


----------



## Shamwow

Ben, I hear ya. Just the first thought that ran through my head. I didn't do it. If I can't vent the possibilities here, what's the point.


----------



## Stonewall

Keep your powder dry. Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!

this bears repeating!


----------



## Stonewall

I have to admit though the skankest strippers toteing the biggest double dong they can find is a great idea! LOL


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Stonewall said:


> I have to admit though the skankest strippers toteing the biggest double dong they can find is a great idea! LOL


:rofl: I keep thinking he should send a strapon in addition
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> The hits just keep on coming.
> 
> Looks like it's nuclear. *Just saw in her email that last night she indeed did book a flight home for today. Then cancelled it this morning at 6am. And has rebooked to Vegas for today thru Tuesday.
> *
> I am so pissed off right now...
> 
> She will call me to tell me this today. I will not answer or call back. Except maybe to text her back "Don't bother coming home on Tuesday. Have fun with your bf."
> 
> At least I can ruin her trip.


She sent you an email that said she cancelled the trip last night and then at 6am set it up again? Why would she say that? 

In her email she said she is going to call you?

I am confused as to whether you got an email or intercepted it.

I guess she begged the OM to have this last time with him no matter what their spat was about. Maybe he wanted a threesome. Who knows? My point is that it surely has nothing to do with you.

Ok, you have extra time now. Leave. She has you on a roller coaster. Do not play this game.


----------



## Shamwow

Do I pack up all our personal papers as well as my stuff to take with me? Tax returns/mortgage info/car title/essentially the whole file cabinet? Make it so she has no info to work with as she tries to figure out how to restructure her life without me?

Also, we filed for an extension on our taxes this year, and had planned to take them in to file next week. Is it easy to switch to filing separately?


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> She sent you an email that said she cancelled the trip last night and then at 6am set it up again? Why would she say that?
> 
> In her email she said she is going to call you?
> 
> I am confused as to whether you got an email or intercepted it.


Intercepted it. She seems to have forgotten that I am the admin for our websites & email. Oops. I only get the incoming (as her sent messages are only stored on her computer) but it's been pretty enlightening nonetheless.

(never snooped her email until a couple weeks ago, but I've been right up in there ever since)


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham, seeking was right about conjecture. However, all conjecture is out the window now. I think going full steam ahead with D is the way to go.

It is possible, given time, divorce could wake her up. But for now, I'd do everything you can to protect yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Just pack your bags and leave. Write her a short email message stating *"I know everything, don't bother contacting me."* and go dark.

You my friend have a marriage on paper only and a wife in name only. It's time to put an end to this marriage turned sham by your 'wife'


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Her new flight to Vegas leaves in three hours. Perhaps she plans to call me once she gets there? Should I send her a text before her flight leaves to say "Don't bother coming home Tues, have fun with bf."? (or any better ideas?) Or wait until tonight when she's arrived there? That might make more of an effect. Feel like I have to make this trip bad for her somehow.
> 
> Guess she really doesn't think I have a pair. I'm done.
> 
> Sorry for the possible reconciliation drama, all. Just thought she may have had a change of heart. Clearly bf and her made up by 6am.


Do not text her at all. Do not waste another ounce of energy on her. Use the remaining time to get out of there. Take care of your dogs. Get what you do not want to lose outa of your place. 
Figure anything left behind will get messed up by her. If you have to board your dogs professionally do so. Get going.

This is not the woman you are looking for. She never was. You just did not know it. What a horrible person to do this. Another man totally owns her now.

Again go total NC with her. Get the papers served to her.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Intercepted it. She seems to have forgotten that I am the admin for our websites & email. Oops. I only get the incoming (as her sent messages are only stored on her computer) but it's been pretty enlightening nonetheless.
> 
> (never snooped her email until a couple weeks ago, but I've been right up in there ever since)


Ok, makes sense. Use this information and get the heck outa Dodge. Get passed this. Work on yourself and then when you are ready go find someone better. Life is too short.


----------



## Shamwow

Morituri, that sounds like good wording. Would you send that message before she comes back, or the day after she gets back and has returned to an empty house w/papers on the table and is flipping out? Perhaps I could leave a note with the D papers saying just that (and only that), instead of email.


----------



## Shamwow

And the remaining stack of bills on the table...do I need to pay these legally, or should I just leave them there? Didn't ask my lawyer that.

She has spent all of her money in the last few weeks, credit and cash in checking, and all of ours that she can get her hands on. I have received pay in the last week that will set me up for a while and I've not transferred any of it to our joint checking (which is where we usually pay our bills from). Hope D-Bag McGee is prepared to take on a "wife"...


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Shamwow said:


> Do I pack up all our personal papers as well as my stuff to take with me? Tax returns/mortgage info/car title/essentially the whole file cabinet? Make it so she has no info to work with as she tries to figure out how to restructure her life without me?
> 
> Also, we filed for an extension on our taxes this year, and had planned to take them in to file next week. Is it easy to switch to filing separately?


Lawyers anyone?


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> Do I pack up all our personal papers as well as my stuff to take with me? Tax returns/mortgage info/car title/essentially the whole file cabinet? Make it so she has no info to work with as she tries to figure out how to restructure her life without me?
> 
> Also, we filed for an extension on our taxes this year, and had planned to take them in to file next week. Is it easy to switch to filing separately?


Yes you can sort out what you want her to have later. You will prob still have to file jointly this time though.


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> Morituri, that sounds like good wording. Would you send that message before she comes back, or the day after she gets back and has returned to an empty house w/papers on the table and is flipping out? Perhaps I could leave a note with the D papers saying just that (and only that), instead of email.


*Send it a few minutes before you're out the door.* 

You don't want to give her time to book an emergency flight home and attempt to do a snow job on you. As Entropy3000 said, the emotional power of a crying, pleading woman is hard on any man. I've seen men in your situation who allow their woman's tears to melt their resolve like putty and later bitterly regret having capitulated once their wives fears subside and they go back to their OM.

Your wife needs to face the severe consequences of her actions and nothing does it better than leaving and serving her with the divorce papers.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> And the remaining stack of bills on the table...do I need to pay these legally, or should I just leave them there? Didn't ask my lawyer that.
> 
> She has spent all of her money in the last few weeks, credit and cash in checking, and all of ours that she can get her hands on. I have received pay in the last week that will set me up for a while and I've not transferred any of it to our joint checking (which is where we usually pay our bills from). Hope D-Bag McGee is prepared to take on a "wife"...


Anything that can wait a few days to pay just hold off until you can get back with the attorney!


----------



## Shamwow

She just texted me:

"Any money come through? I decided to go to Vegas today. Cancelled the ticket home, but money isn't credited back yet. I need some play monies.  I'll be home tues."


Guess it's time to put dark status into action. Let him pay for her "play monies". This is gonna be weird guys.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "Any money come through? I decided to go to Vegas today. Cancelled the ticket home, but money isn't credited back yet. I need some play monies.  I'll be home tues."
> 
> 
> Time to put dark status into action. Let him pay for her "play monies". This is gonna be weird guys.


Don't respond!!!! Lukeee come to the dark side..........


----------



## Stonewall

cut off your phone don't be tempted to respond!


----------



## Whip Morgan

Not weird. You know exactly what she is doing and with whom. I agree with your decision to go dark here, I think it's a good idea. As for the timing of telling her, I'm not sure what the pros and cons are of waiting or doing it now. Better left up to the others to help with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

I am tempted, but I won't respond.


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> And the remaining stack of bills on the table...do I need to pay these legally, or should I just leave them there? Didn't ask my lawyer that.


Consult with your attorney before paying them. You credit score may or may not be affected.



> She has spent all of her money in the last few weeks, credit and cash in checking, and all of ours that she can get her hands on. I have received pay in the last week that will set me up for a while and I've not transferred any of it to our joint checking (which is where we usually pay our bills from). Hope D-Bag McGee is prepared to take on a "wife"...


And you want to remain married to this woman because....?:scratchhead:


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Shamwow said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "Any money come through? I decided to go to Vegas today. Cancelled the ticket home, but money isn't credited back yet. I need some play monies.  I'll be home tues."
> 
> 
> Guess it's time to put dark status into action. Let him pay for her "play monies". This is gonna be weird guys.


Wow. Just uh...wow. Like you actually once used to call this hollow non-feeling beast your wife right?

*Calling all REAL women[single of course:smthumbup:]: Shamwow the GREAT GUY™ is free for the taking!*
:rofl::smthumbup::rofl:


----------



## Shamwow

Going to buy boxes and packing supplies now.


----------



## Anubis

No contact. No Money. 

Put together a list of open issues to research tonight (what to do about bills, house, etc), then run through the list quickly with your lawyer in the morning. Send your lawyer an email right now advising him that she's gone AWOL until Tuesday and that gives him and you a day to prepare and strengthen your position. 

She's shown you what she really thinks of you, though I can see that probably didn't come as a total surprise to you.


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Shamwow said:


> Going to buy boxes and packing supplies now.


You'll be fine. We Promise. Stay strong


----------



## morituri

SW,

You may want to consider asking the moderator to move this thread over to the 'Coping with Infidelity' forum to get more support and feedback.


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> SW,
> 
> You may want to consider asking the moderator to move this thread over to the 'Coping with Infidelity' forum to get more support and feedback.


Thanks Morituri. How do I do that/Who is the Moderator? (new to the forum thing)


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> Thanks Morituri. How do I do that/Who is the Moderator? (new to the forum thing)


Send a PM to any of these moderators:

Amplexor
Deejo

They should be able to do it without a problem.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "Any money come through? I decided to go to Vegas today. Cancelled the ticket home, but money isn't credited back yet. I need some play monies.  I'll be home tues."
> 
> 
> Guess it's time to put dark status into action. Let him pay for her "play monies". This is gonna be weird guys.


Go dark. She realized you have not put your money in your joint account. She was counting on it. Maybe that is what last night was all about. Maybe she was hoping you thinkiong seh was coming homewas going to get you to loosen up things.


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> And let the "call shamwow a p***y" comments commence for not telling her to go f**k herself and die. Will not apologize for calling to hear what she had to say, and not stomping my proverbial foot on her face. That will come when she comes home and admits this s**t to me to my face. My spine is just fine.


All kinds of people who don't know you and don't know her are going to go all internet tough guy on you. Forget them, what you did shook her, because you weren't whiny or begging. You set boundaries and let her make the wrong choices. That's a much better way to handle it; the others are just mad because you did better than most guys would have. There's no way they can tell from the text you write here what tone you took, etc. Sounds like you're doing fine, but there's a long hard road ahead. 

Remember not to cave quickly into reconciliation if that's what you want. She has some dues to pay, and it will take time to rebuild trust, etc. Remember too that it's not your job to be captain save-a-ho. It's her job to earn mercy and forgiveness and trust at this point, if you even want that. But you know that.


----------



## Dadof3

ManDup said:


> All kinds of people who don't know you and don't know her are going to go all internet tough guy on you. Forget them, what you did shook her, because you weren't whiny or begging. You set boundaries and let her make the wrong choices. That's a much better way to handle it; the others are just mad because you did better than most guys would have. There's no way they can tell from the text you write here what tone you took, etc. Sounds like you're doing fine, but there's a long hard road ahead.
> 
> Remember not to cave quickly into reconciliation if that's what you want. She has some dues to pay, and it will take time to rebuild trust, etc. Remember too that it's not your job to be captain save-a-ho. It's her job to earn mercy and forgiveness and trust at this point, if you even want that. But you know that.


:smthumbup::iagree:

I have to admit this thread being one of the most captivating thread in TAM so far. This has been a nailbiter! My thoughts are with you ShamWow.


----------



## Shamwow

Realize I think I need a soundtrack for the next few days as I pack and go through this mess. Thinking White Zombie, Rage Against The Machine, etc. The closing music to the first Matrix movie...


----------



## Shamwow

Have just requested the thread be moved to Coping With Infidelity...


----------



## the guy

Go dark bro and change your cell number. I know a pain in the butt, but what a way to ruin her trip when she can't contact you. or the old cell number goes to someone else. Making her wonder what happend and then coming home to find you have completely disappeared.

Take everything bills, papers, taxes, I mean everything.....just keep them in front of the storage so you can retrieve them after the "bomb hits". 

I'm talking a disapperaing act of biblical proportion. Screw her and move on, focus on your new life.


----------



## Shamwow

If I change my FB relationship status from Married to just nothing, does that show as a status update (like it does when you go from married to single, or vice versa)? Or does it just quietly remove it from my info...anyone know?


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> Either way, when she comes home today I'll be prepared to sit her down stat. If she jumps in and starts spilling right away, I'll let her talk. If she doesn't, I'll tell her I know she's been cheating, and that I was not going to be here when she got back from Vegas, that I'd seen an attorney, and that papers were being drawn up as we speak. I'll tell her that I don't know what difference it will make, but if she doesn't tell me everything - from the beginning - and make it the truth, I'm leaving. I'll make it clear to not tell me just the truth she thinks I may already know, because I know plenty, and if she lies or denies what I already know to be true, the conversation will be over, and I'll be leaving and she can expect papers promptly.
> 
> Then we'll see what she says.
> 
> I won't be giving her a hug when she starts crying (or when she gets home for that matter), I won't be sitting next to her on the couch trying to comfort her as she talks. Rarely if ever call her by her first name, have called her "babe" for so many years it's ingrained. I will call her by her first name only. I plan to be standing, and several feet from her. Will try not to show any emotion whatsoever, and will try to project that I'm only there because she came home early and I haven't have a chance to move out yet.
> 
> If she stonewalls me or lies, I will just put up my hand and walk away, and say I'll be leaving now, good luck with everything, and don't call me.


:iagree:
Sham, way to go man. I am proud of you. 
:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> All kinds of people who don't know you and don't know her are going to go all internet tough guy on you. Forget them, what you did shook her, because you weren't whiny or begging. You set boundaries and let her make the wrong choices. That's a much better way to handle it; the others are just mad because you did better than most guys would have. There's no way they can tell from the text you write here what tone you took, etc. Sounds like you're doing fine, but there's a long hard road ahead.
> 
> Remember not to cave quickly into reconciliation if that's what you want. She has some dues to pay, and it will take time to rebuild trust, etc. Remember too that it's not your job to be captain save-a-ho. It's her job to earn mercy and forgiveness and trust at this point, if you even want that. But you know that.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I think he is handling this better than I could frankly. It is easy to be tough about someone elses business.


----------



## nada

Entropy3000 said:


> BUT if I did:
> 
> 1) one of the requirements would be for her to quit her current job and find something with no travel, IMMEDIATELY. Like Monday. There is no way this relationship works with her going off on these trips even if she were totally comitted. It is too easy for her hookup.
> 
> 2) NC with these two friends at least.
> 
> 3) Total transparency. You have access to all of her accounts. She does not get to delete anything first. You get to see what is there now and in the future. You will be as transparent as well. This includes her phone(s).
> 
> 4) This transparency also goes for credit cards usage. You get access to see her charges on her personal cards.
> 
> 5) No more close male friends. I learned I cannot have close female friends the hard way. This includes FB.
> 
> 6) Test for STDs for the both of you. Again you don't know if she has been unfaithful to you in the past. It does not have to be with this guy. Yes the ten week trip seems to be the time.
> 
> ....
> 
> Our top needs as men are usually 1) Sexual Fullment and 2) Respect and 3) Admiration.
> All three assume a faithful wife. She has made a mockery of all three of these.
> 
> Good luck. No matter how tough any of us sound we are wired to protect the women we love. Even when they treat us badly. Again whatever you decide though you deserve some compassion and respect for what you are dealing with. This is tough stuff. You don't have kids though. That makes leaving a much easier thing to do than with many others.



:iagree:

I agree with the list you made but it is clearly a sign of no trust, which is essential in a relationship. Would you continue in such a situation yourself ith the set of rules or would you terminate? How can you ever trust a person again after what sham has been trough? This is F.cking up his self esteem.

Nada


----------



## nada

morituri said:


> Just pack your bags and leave. Write her a short email message stating *"I know everything, don't bother contacting me."* and go dark.
> 
> You my friend have a marriage on paper only and a wife in name only. It's time to put an end to this marriage turned sham by your 'wife'


:iagree::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Realize I think I need a soundtrack for the next few days as I pack and go through this mess. Thinking White Zombie, Rage Against The Machine, etc. The closing music to the first Matrix movie...


You cannot go wrong with Metallica:

Unforgiven, Fade to Black, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Nothing Else Matters, Wherever I may Roam, The Thing That Should Not Be, Welcome Home (Sanitarium), One, Enter Sandman.

So roll around in some Metallica, but then segui into more postive feelings. One must greive some and then move on. It can be cathartic to do this, but it is alos important to move on. Purge the feelings, do not holfd them in. Then focus the energy into the positive. 

I used to go into meetings that I knew there was going to be conflict by listening to Metallica.

----
There is always ...

Lyin Eyes -- Eagles


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> Realize I think I need a soundtrack for the next few days as I pack and go through this mess. Thinking White Zombie, Rage Against The Machine, etc. The closing music to the first Matrix movie...


:smthumbup:
Welcome to your new life. From this point it will only improve.
You are handling this well

Nada


----------



## Entropy3000

nada said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I agree with the list you made but it is clearly a sign of no trust, which is essential in a relationship. Would you continue in such a situation yourself ith the set of rules or would you terminate? How can you ever trust a person again after what sham has been trough? This is F.cking up his self esteem.
> 
> Nada


This is how you regain trust. Blind trust is overrated anyway. Love trumps trust. I trust my wife more than anyone in the world. Trust flourishes with transparency and kept boundaries.

This woman has shattered the trust. She must regain it.

Now I agree with you in that if trust has been shattered why would one want to continue on.

My answer? I would not. I do want to be able to trust. So I make a circular argument, but my point again is that trust would have to be regained. You cannot trust someone who has done this.

Things have progressed way beyond this. Also sometimes we tell folks what they would have to do to regain trust and then it hits them that they cannot regain that trust. It can help them move forward. Everything she has done would be a deal breaker for me. I would not do this.


----------



## Shamwow

nada said:


> :How can you ever trust a person again after what sham has been trough? This is F.cking up his self esteem.


At the moment, I feel like my self-esteem is stronger than it's been in months. When she first came back from 10-wk trip and all went cold, I took it on myself, and since I was already feeling down about gaining weight, etc, it had to be remedied. Have now lost 50 lbs in 7 weeks, and in a lot of ways haven't felt better in, well, maybe even years. That said, I have plenty of moments right now where the hurt of all this kicks in...but actually hiring a lawyer, seeing a therapist, and now going to buy boxes/packing stuff and preparing to walk out and "show her who's she's dealing with" seems to be a boost right now, even though it is gonna be REALLY hard to pull the trigger, because I've never made such a decision before in my life. Deciding to marry was easy. This is a whole new decision.

Don't imagine I could ever trust her again. I want to, but I don't think it's possible. She would have to move mountains over the next few months while I'm gone, and I don't see that happening. I see her feeling bad at first, trying to contact me, then trying to contact me more angrily, then saying **** you and telling everyone around her what a lousy husband I was. We'll just have to see.


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> If I change my FB relationship status from Married to just nothing, does that show as a status update (like it does when you go from married to single, or vice versa)? Or does it just quietly remove it from my info...anyone know?


Sham, just hide the info, then it will not show up. If you change the status, "everyone" will se the update.


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> At the moment, I feel like my self-esteem is stronger than it's been in months. When she first came back from 10-wk trip and all went cold, I took it on myself, and since I was already feeling down about gaining weight, etc, it had to be remedied. Have now lost 50 lbs in 7 weeks, and in a lot of ways haven't felt better in, well, maybe even years. That said, I have plenty of moments right now where the hurt of all this kicks in...but actually hiring a lawyer, seeing a therapist, and now going to buy boxes/packing stuff and preparing to walk out and "show her who's she's dealing with" seems to be a boost right now, even though it is gonna be REALLY hard to pull the trigger, because I've never made such a decision before in my life. Deciding to marry was easy. This is a whole new decision.
> 
> Don't imagine I could ever trust her again. I want to, but I don't think it's possible. She would have to move mountains over the next few months while I'm gone, and I don't see that happening. I see her feeling bad at first, trying to contact me, then trying to contact me more angrily, then saying **** you and telling everyone around her what a lousy husband I was. We'll just have to see.


To me it appears that you have changed a lot from the time you posted the first question. Also, I am glad to see that you now focus on making a better life for yourself. Try make dodge the emotional bombs she may drop at you and protect yourself. I agree with making life more diffucult for her, but I would try to avoid coming across as vendictive (spelt correctly?) for your own sake. 

I would go over the incoming bills / fixed payments in my bank and stop all bills that go to her interests (I paid the electrisity bill for my X for a full year before I noticed).

Nada


----------



## Shamwow

WTF. Just logged into her FB (oops) and checked out profile of OM. His Facebook profile says he's married (I could never see this because I'm not FB friends with him). Is this avenue even worth pursuing anymore? I'd have to ask around to some of her work friends to find out anything. Or hire a PI to research him for me. Not sure if I even wanna go there anymore, but like I said I'd REALLY like to eff up his life like he's done to mine. Round and around we go...

As I mentioned, I did a records search earlier this week in the state he lives in, and it showed he was not married. Perhaps he was married in a different state than he lives now, and I'd have to search that state? Don't care if/what I do about this right now, but I want a name, email and phone number for her so I can pull the strings from afar. Just send her a copy of the email that her d-bag hubby sent my wife with a link to PORN. Saying, "just thought you should know." Also ask her if he was out of town last week, and if so, where. That oughta do it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Now the following is a more positive song with the right attitude.

Figured You Out


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> WTF. Just logged into her FB (oops) and checked out profile of OM. His Facebook profile says he's married (I could never see this because I'm not FB friends with him). Is this avenue even worth pursuing anymore? I'd have to ask around to some of her work friends to find out anything. Or hire a PI to research him for me. Not sure if I even wanna go there anymore, but like I said I'd REALLY like to eff up his life like he's done to mine. Round and around we go...


Revenge is best served cold.

Take care of him in your own time and choosing. Scorch earth this [email protected] AFTER you take care of your business. Deal with wifey first. Gather your strength. Do this up right. There are those that say leave the OM alone. I say he picked the wrong woman to F^ck around with. That said, you may change your mind down the road. See how you feel then. 

Verita Aequitas my friend.


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> WTF. Just logged into her FB (oops) and checked out profile of OM. His Facebook profile says he's married (I could never see this because I'm not FB friends with him). Is this avenue even worth pursuing anymore? I'd have to ask around to some of her work friends to find out anything. Or hire a PI to research him for me. Not sure if I even wanna go there anymore, but like I said I'd REALLY like to eff up his life like he's done to mine. Round and around we go...
> 
> I did a records search in the state he lives in, and it showed he was not married. Perhaps he was married in a different state than he lives now, and I'd have to search that state? Don't care if/what I do about this right now, but I want a name, email and phone number for her so I can pull the strings from afar. Just send her a copy of the email that her d-bag hubby sent my wife with a link to PORN. Saying, "just thought you should know." That oughta do it.


I would advise against revenge. Make a clean break and start a new life. Break up as coldly and indifferently as you can. (I understand it is tempting to find out if he has a wife and give her the info.). When my X cheated I texed our common friends that she was cheating with a collegue, so I understand very well that you want to use a PI. If feels good in the moment, but it does not change much for you?

Nada


----------



## nada

Entropy3000 said:


> Revenge is best served cold.
> 
> Take care of him in your own time and choosing. Scorch earth this [email protected] AFTER you take care of your business. Deal with wifey first. Gather your strength. Do this up right. There are those that say leave the OM alone. I say he picked the wrong woman to F^ck around with. That said, you may change your mind down the road. See how you feel then.
> 
> Verita Aequitas my friend.


:iagree:

I think I would make an effort to discretly mess up her finances, because she would have to live with these consequences for years. 

Rgds
Nada


----------



## WorldsApart

Shamwow said:


> And let the "call shamwow a p***y" comments commence for not telling her to go f**k herself and die. Will not apologize for calling to hear what she had to say, and not stomping my proverbial foot on her face. That will come when she comes home and admits this s**t to me to my face. My spine is just fine.


I think you've played this pretty damn well.


----------



## Shamwow

nada said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think I would make an effort to discretly mess up her finances, because she would have to live with these consequences for years.
> 
> Rgds
> Nada


Can't imagine I could mess them up any worse than she already has. She has run all her cards up to the breaking point in the last few weeks, spent her business checking money and our joint checking money, and just lost her next job. She has one paycheck coming for the last week's contract, and while it will help her out, we've always gone back and forth as one of us makes more or less depending on the jobs we're working on (both work freelance). I just this week (while she's been gone) received about 2 month's pay from a few clients that were 30-60 days out on payment. Kinda sitting pretty at the moment.

Have also set up a PO box that I'll start forwarding MY mail to tomorrow...so when more checks for me arrive she can't go drop them in the joint without me knowing.

Also, we just sold her car last week (it was getting old and crappy, we didn't do it for the money), so it's just my car left. She'll come back to no money, no car, no job and no sucker husband to make it all better. I think I can safely say she'll be feeling a little stressed.

That said...got any ideas?


----------



## Entropy3000

nada said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think I would make an effort to discretly mess up her finances, because she would have to live with these consequences for years.
> 
> Rgds
> Nada


He just does not have to do anything rash now. And he just flat may be so involved with his new life he no longer cares.

But he is welll within his rights to let the OM feel some of the pain. He gets to choose. Which is empowering in itself.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Can't imagine I could mess them up any worse than she already has. She has run all her cards up to the breaking point in the last few weeks, spent her business checking money and our joint checking money, and just lost her next job. She has one paycheck coming for the last week's contract, and while it will help her out, we've always gone back and forth as one of us makes more or less depending on the jobs we're working on (both work freelance). I just this week (while she's been gone) received about 2 month's pay from a few clients that were 30-60 days out on payment. Kinda sitting pretty at the moment.
> 
> Have also set up a PO box that I'll start forwarding MY mail to tomorrow...so when more checks for me arrive she can't go drop them in the joint without me knowing.
> 
> Also, we just sold her car last week (it was getting old and crappy, we didn't do it for the money), so it's just my car left. She'll come back to no money, no car, no job and no sucker husband to make it all better. I think I can safely say she'll be feeling a little stressed.
> 
> That said...got any ideas?


Idunno, she is in a self destructive phase now. I don't think you need to push that any further. Just protect yourself. Move on. Put her in your rear view mirror. Distance yourself and do not let her pull you down. Make sure your dogs are safe.


----------



## the guy

Ya she sure is in self distruct mode, I guess when she's sleeping around it must make her feel better when she spends money.

It amazes me how with even given the chance she continues down this unhealthy path. She is not only in "party city", but in fantasy land. Her reality will hit Tuesday and she will reap the consequences for her adulterous ways. I would stay away from that, thats for sure. 
RUN FOREST RUN!



Well played Shamwow.....well played. Even with the death...I mean divorce of your wife you will be just fine.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham,

This sounds pretty obvious and I'm sure you've already done this: Report all of her financial moves to your lawyer. Her out of control spending is something he needs to know. He has probably seen crazy spouses go crazy over money and become a contentious issue in divorce.


----------



## Shamwow

Whip Morgan said:


> Sham,
> 
> This sounds pretty obvious and I'm sure you've already done this: Report all of her financial moves to your lawyer. Her out of control spending is something he needs to know. He has probably seen crazy spouses go crazy over money and become a contentious issue in divorce.


Yeah, I mentioned to him that I have receipts for at least 3k in expenses that seem quite obviously for an affair, and that I was pretty sure of a few more thousand that I didn't have receipts for. He said that would be brought into account during the negotiation of the debts.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Now that you are going to file, when you have your face-to-face, stay composed. Thats normally good advice for any tense situation, but considering your wife's irrational behavior, its integral.

Who knows what she might throw at you? I'm thinking anything that could arise leading to things she could mention to a lawyer. Prepare for the worst case scenario and all that. 

I did think that she'd come back upset, whether or not she'd confess. Now that she is blowing you off even when you know shes cheating, who knows what she is capable of.


----------



## the guy

She won't be cabable of much, after walking home from the airport b/c she has no cab fair dough, she will be pretty beat. Then she'll have to sleep on the floor in her emty house b/c Shamwoo will have taken the bed.
Sure she can try to make him out to be the bad guy, but with the evidence he has, he should beable to clear the air.

IMO I would wait for her to confront him, when she does contact him, he can simply reply that he thought she found some one else and has moved on.


----------



## Shamwow

Whip Morgan said:


> Now that you are going to file, when you have your face-to-face, stay composed. Thats normally good advice for any tense situation, but considering your wife's irrational behavior, its integral.
> 
> Who knows what she might throw at you? I'm thinking anything that could arise leading to things she could mention to a lawyer. Prepare for the worst case scenario and all that.
> 
> I did think that she'd come back upset, whether or not she'd confess. Now that she is blowing you off even when you know shes cheating, who knows what she is capable of.


Not sure I'll do the face to face. Thinking about moving most of my stuff out, leaving and going to visit a buddy of mine out of town for a few days. I find it hard to deal with leaving her blind (as it's way out of character for me)...but it's definitely on my mind as the strongest option. And way out of character may be the best thing for me to be right now...hell, she certainly is.

But...inevitably there'll be a face to face at some point, whether it be when she comes home or a week or two later when we have to meet over taxes/lawyer stuff...or if she tracks me down somehow and tries to talk to me. I will remain calm...and try to record the audio on my phone just in case. Thanks.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Not sure I'll do the face to face. Thinking about moving most of my stuff out, leaving and going to visit a buddy of mine out of town for a few days. I find it hard to deal with leaving her blind (as it's way out of character for me)...but it's definitely on my mind as the strongest option. And way out of character may be the best thing for me to be right now...hell, she certainly is.
> 
> But...inevitably there'll be a face to face at some point, whether it be when she comes home or a week or two later when we have to meet over taxes/lawyer stuff...or if she tracks me down somehow and tries to talk to me. I will remain calm...and try to record the audio on my phone just in case. Thanks.


Yes. Get out of there. Let her stew in her own juices.

She is expecting you to be there like a good little puppy. Do not oblige. Let her do the wondering now.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> She won't be cabable of much, after walking home from the airport b/c she has no cab fair dough, she will be pretty beat. Then she'll have to sleep on the floor in her emty house b/c Shamwoo will have taken the bed.
> Sure she can try to make him out to be the bad guy, but with the evidence he has, he should beable to clear the air.
> 
> IMO I would wait for her to confront him, when she does contact him, he can simply reply that he thought she found some one else and has moved on.


I think she will get a ride home from the OM if he is local.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> I think she will get a ride home from the OM if he is local.


He's not local...other side of the country. But I'm sure she'll call a friend for a ride or something. Especially when she hasn't heard from me in response to her calls and texts about when she'll be arriving, etc.

Being very careful about who knows anything about this. No family...and only two friends that are loyal to me. A buddy was in town on work yesterday, needed a place to stay. He's known her since 5th grade. He actually is the one that introduced me to her. We went out, had a good time, I let on nothing, even though we're quite close. Word gets back to her and I lose a lot here.

Even if I leave town on Tues I think I'll only tell the two people that already know my situation (one would be the guy I'd travel to stay with for a few days). She'll be calling around trying to find out where I am (so she can scream at me, I presume), and surely she'll come across those two people eventually, and hopefully they don't give me up. Either way, don't want to make it easy.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> Realize I think I need a soundtrack for the next few days as I pack and go through this mess. Thinking White Zombie, Rage Against The Machine, etc. The closing music to the first Matrix movie...



This is perfect!!!!!!!!!!!

Motley Crue - Don't Go Away Mad (Just Go) - YouTube

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEPXEJYyKaM


----------



## the guy

I was thinking some one spilled the beans when she 1st decided not to go to Vages, but it seems you are covering your bases.
So it most have been the OM influence.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "Any money come through? I decided to go to Vegas today. Cancelled the ticket home, but money isn't credited back yet. I need some play monies.  I'll be home tues."
> 
> 
> Guess it's time to put dark status into action. Let him pay for her "play monies". This is gonna be weird guys.


When do you think she'll run up against the wall for cash? Will she even be able to pay for the hotel with her credit card if it is maxed? If not, hopefully she doesn't have a shared credit card from your accounts.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> He's not local...other side of the country. But I'm sure she'll call a friend for a ride or something. Especially when she hasn't heard from me in response to her calls and texts about when she'll be arriving, etc.
> 
> Being very careful about who knows anything about this. No family...and only two friends that are loyal to me. A buddy was in town on work yesterday, needed a place to stay. He's known her since 5th grade. He actually is the one that introduced me to her. We went out, had a good time, I let on nothing, even though we're quite close. Word gets back to her and I lose a lot here.
> 
> Even if I leave town on Tues I think I'll only tell the two people that already know my situation (one would be the guy I'd travel to stay with for a few days). She'll be calling around trying to find out where I am (so she can scream at me, I presume), and surely she'll come across those two people eventually, and hopefully they don't give me up. Either way, don't want to make it easy.


Awesome. You are fast becoming my hero.


----------



## Shamwow

Halien said:


> When do you think she'll run up against the wall for cash? Will she even be able to pay for the hotel with her credit card if it is maxed? If not, hopefully she doesn't have a shared credit card from your accounts.


Well, the other day she paid $500 to one of her credit cards out of the joint, probably to make a little room. That's a shared card, but it's maxed (minus $500). Her other cards probably have a hundred or less left on them. From what she transferred from the joint last week I'm guessing she probably has $600, maybe $700 in cash to play with, unless she already spent it this last week. Our joint now has $200 in it. Guessing she'll be dipping into that if worst come to worst. Not sure what she bought the new plane ticket with. (freq flyer miles maybe?)

I told her earlier in the week I was still waiting on some checks, and they should be here soon. I was waiting. They've come since then though, and I haven't mentioned that they did.

So if she's careful she should be able to pay the hotel bill, etc. But she won't be living it up Vegas-style. Unless someone else covers her.

That said, she'll be landing in Vegas in about an hour. Wonder if I'll be hearing more pleas for "play monies" tonight. Won't respond...but would be fun to just text back "guess you better win on red."


----------



## Locard

Sham, if you W were a man she would have nads the size of basketballs, asking you to send her money to fund her sexscapade. Wow, just wow!


----------



## Shamwow

Locard said:


> Sham, if you W were a man she would have nads the size of basketballs, asking you to send her money to fund her sexscapade. Wow, just wow!


I know, right?? And honestly, that's one of the things I always loved about her. She's a strong chick.

I mean, I've said before that we love wasting money. We're too good at it. Going to Vegas (or anywhere for that matter) always costs us more than it should, and we make spending decisions on vacations all the time that can end up strapping us for a while. I don't care that she wants to waste money in Vegas. Nothing unusual there. I care that she wants to spend what WE normally do on a vacation, but without ME. And with two guys that I don't really know, and certainly have every reason not to trust. After I specifically told her it was NOT okay to go. And then when the money runs low, actually expects ME to fund it as if I'm her partner in this?

Test me, eh? Gonna pass this one with flying colors.

The nads on this chick...


----------



## the guy

Ya your future ex wife is getting covered alright!

Thats probablely the deal, she didn't have the dough to go to Vegas and was heading home but then she got "covered". The OM is going to be pissed when she can't pay him back. Wait she may have!


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> I was thinking some one spilled the beans when she 1st decided not to go to Vages, but it seems you are covering your bases.
> So it most have been the OM influence.


I had this same thought too...I thought maybe my buddy in town decided it was the right thing to do to give her a heads up that I was on to everything and was planning to bolt. Try to save my marriage for me.

Who knows, that still could be the case, and she ultimately decided she didn't care, so eff it, she would go have a good time anyway...


----------



## Whip Morgan

Who knows at this point is right. You're doing the right thing, Sham. Gotta take care of yourself. One day at a time! If you feel yourself wearing down from this nightmare rollercoaster, I'd keep re-reading the link to "Let Them Go" from Morituri's link.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> I had this same thought too...I thought maybe my buddy in town decided it was the right thing to do to give her a heads up that I was on to everything and was planning to bolt. Try to save my marriage for me.
> 
> Who knows, that still could be the case, and she ultimately decided she didn't care, so eff it, she would go have a good time anyway...


You might be surprised. Her call revealed alot, and I don't think it was all crocodile tears. I suspect that she cried because he pulled back, but it is entirely possible that you are her safe backup plan. Its very unlikely, in my opinion, that she will tell you to f*** off until the very last tear falls when she begs you to take her back.

Her travel likely gives her a safe buffer that most cheating women don't get. It can create a mindset where she is not really interested in another marriage partner, but only needs an unsuspecting husband and a guy that she has a crush on.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> I know, right?? And honestly, that's one of the things I always loved about her. She's a strong chick.
> 
> I mean, I've said before that we love wasting money. We're too good at it. Going to Vegas (or anywhere for that matter) always costs us more than it should, and we make spending decisions on vacations all the time that can end up strapping us for a while. I don't care that she wants to waste money in Vegas. Nothing unusual there. I care that she wants to spend what WE normally do on a vacation, but without ME. And with two guys that I don't really know, and certainly have every reason not to trust. After I specifically told her it was NOT okay to go. And then when the money runs low, actually expects ME to fund it as if I'm her partner in this?
> 
> Test me, eh? Gonna pass this one with flying colors.
> 
> The nads on this chick...


Yes nads. But it is also the dopamine talking. She is in a mental crisis of her own making. Delusional. 

Again there is not doubt there is sex involved here, BUT even if there was not what she is doing on the face of it is unfaithful.
Her partying with her male friends and lying to you about it without you is unfaithful even without penetration. But to be sure that has and is ocurring.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> You might be surprised. Her call revealed alot, and I don't think it was all crocodile tears. I suspect that she cried because he pulled back, but it is entirely possible that you are her safe backup plan. Its very unlikely, in my opinion, that she will tell you to f*** off until the very last tear falls when she begs you to take her back.
> 
> *Her travel likely gives her a safe buffer that most cheating women don't get. It can create a mindset where she is not really interested in another marriage partner, but only needs an unsuspecting husband and a guy that she has a crush on.*


Yes sir. You and I know about corporate travel. If one is so inclined they can fall into a double life syndrome where they lead separate lives. The one at home and the one on the road. Some people are very comfortable with this. I know a few of those folks. I avoid them on trips whenever possible.


----------



## Shamwow

Text just now from her:

"Hello?"


----------



## the guy

Her "good time" will be short lived.....were my friend, are about to embark on a new journy, with new adventures, with new people that will respect you and be loyaly.


----------



## the guy

Why don't you block her?


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Text just now from her:
> 
> "Hello?"


So the reply might be : Adios

Or something more classy like: "Farewell my love"

I actually think being classy is harder for people to deal with. The high ground. Kinda lets them know more how wrong they are. Somewhere deep inside her psyche is a remnant of who she used to be and never will be again. That was the woman you loved. She is who you need to say goodbye to. The woman who took over her body is not worth talking to.

Be quiet for now. Go dark. This is powerful.


----------



## morituri

Silence speaks volumes. Keep your silence.


----------



## Entropy3000

morituri said:


> Silence speaks volumes. Keep your silence.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Let her think I'm camping...

I mean, how would she know? Not like she asked what I've got going on this weekend when we talked yesterday.


----------



## Shamwow

When I go do I leave my ring for effect? Or sell it?


----------



## morituri

Start packing faster. By now she'll start getting worried and just might pull another "I'm coming home on the next flight".


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> When I go do I leave my ring for effect? Or sell it?


Leave it in plain sight.


----------



## Ticonderoga

morituri said:


> Leave it in plain sight.


 Yup, with a nice ribbon holding it to a bottle of bubbly.......maybe with a nice card saying something "sweet".


----------



## Ticonderoga

Shamwow - I have big pile of crap going on my life....your posts help me feel not alone with it all. Thx.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> When I go do I leave my ring for effect? Or sell it?



Got a dog in the area? Scoop his poop up on a plate and set the ring on top of it!


----------



## morituri

Stonewall said:


> Got a dog in the area? Scoop his poop up on a plate and set the ring on top of it!


It's very important to make sure its fresh.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Text just now from her:
> 
> "Hello?"


Why not reply, "Did you think that I wouldn't be watching?" Then go dark.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Stone and Mori- that's quite evil. Well done gentlemen. Fitting for this instance!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Stay dark, give her the " you didn't think I was watching" line when she starts to look for you next week. Then you can also give her the ring if you want.


Again a disappearing act of biblical proportion!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

Ticonderoga said:


> Yup, with a nice ribbon holding it to a bottle of bubbly.......maybe with a nice card saying something "sweet".


And a condom. 

The note says "What happened here, stays here."


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'm just going to throw out one thing here. Everything you have as PROOF is circumstantial and if you were trying to convict in court for a crime you would lose. You are digging an awful deep whole based on circumstantial evidence. I hope for your sake, you are 100% correct or you will have slammed the door before even having talked to her face to face. You could be right, you could be very wrong. Based on your actions it's obvious it doesn't matter if you are wrong - you've convinced yourself and your done.


----------



## Whip Morgan

8yrs- you have a point, as did Seeking in an earlier post, about conjecture. I think it's too hard to chalk up the (possible) OM in a hotel next to the wife's as pure coincidence. Lots of red flags that Sham has shared with the board. I think it's more likely than not that in this case 2+2 = 4.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ticonderoga

Plus her change of Vegas travel plans and comments like - "we aren't having fun anymore".


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Just cant believe all this. Its crazy.


----------



## Anubis

This whole thing is giving me flashbacks.

What if 8yearschating and Whip Morgan are right? ... The evidence may be all circumstantial, but there is so much of it at this point the odds that it's an affair are greater than 99%.

And that fraction of a percent? if so, then his wife is still guilty of having ZERO respect for him, and it has been that way for a good while now. That is NOT a marriage. 

So the "best case" is that she has lost complete respect for him and treats him like dirt. And that is the most unlikely of cases. 

I can not image ANY situation with his circumstances where she is interested in having and nurturing a good marriage with him. (I'm sure she's been daydreaming about the OM, and has probably told everyone she could how "bad" Shamwow is)


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> I'm just going to throw out one thing here. Everything you have as PROOF is circumstantial and if you were trying to convict in court for a crime you would lose. You are digging an awful deep whole based on circumstantial evidence. I hope for your sake, you are 100% correct or you will have slammed the door before even having talked to her face to face. You could be right, you could be very wrong. Based on your actions it's obvious it doesn't matter if you are wrong - you've convinced yourself and your done.


Her behavior is unfaithful. I don't care if there was penetration or not. She has not been faithful to her husband. She has shown utter disrespect for him. She has lied. She went on a trip with two guys in secret. When he called her on it she went anyway. The OM has been at least one trip with her.

Whether she is banging anyone or not is not the point. What he knows for sure now is reason enough to divorce her.

He does need to slam the door with her. It does not matter if there was penetration or not.

I bet my next ten paycheck there has. But her behavior is unfaithful. She giggled at him when he wanted sex with her. She is withholding intimacy from him. She has spent a lot of money to perpare her presentation to these males for sexual purposes. Lingerie. Waxing and so on. She went to F^cking Vegas with two F^cking guys in secret and did not want her husband along. HELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Un-F^cking-Acceptable.

So he does not need this conjecture now.

People need boundaries. It is not on him. This is her problem. Move on.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'll also add all you have done in your conversations and texting is try to bait her. Never once did you lay out the fact you were preparing to divorce her if she didn't come home. So, she is totally ignorant to all of the machinations you have gone through and built up in your mind. Doe your wife deserve ANY honesty at all from you? I think she does.


----------



## the guy

8-
Look at the conversation ( a few hundred post back) and the fact that she has gone off to Vegas with no regard to his request that she come home or you meet her out there. 

She has checked out knowing that there is a problem and has refused (IMO) to work it out. I have a strong feeling that she believes Shamwow is not man to take the action required.

It seems he has confronted her but she continues her beahvior. If it was his house you would have suggested that he ask her to leave if she choose to continue the affair.

Some times you just have to let them go.

I get it, this is a pro marriage forum and every one is hell bent on Shamwow bailling out, but again he has to let her go, granted he can always move back if she desides to do the heavy lifting and recommit to the marriage, b/c your right there is no hard proof of a PA but at the very least there is a EA and until she admits and own up to it then distancing him self is the best play to get her to see her unhealthy behavior.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Yes she has done things completely wrong and is being self centered in her needs. But, throwing over a marriage without talking face to face first is insanity.


----------



## morituri

8 years,

She's been absent from her husband for 10 weeks, that is 2.5 months. Wouldn't a wife who loves and cares deeply for her husband would want to head home as soon as her business work was done? Of course, but what does she do? She plans on going to Las Vegas with two men and proceeds to lie to her husband about it. So even if there was no extra-marital sex involved, the evidence is that she prefers to live the single life than being a married woman.

I'm sorry but this woman doesn't respect, much less love and care for her husband. For this alone, she should be given the boot.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I read all 21 pages of this thread and again, he asked and did not tell her his intentions if she didn't. He did not confront - he baited. And I can tell you from eprsonal experience travelling - I too have been gone that long and IT WAS at the request of my superiors and I WASN't given a choice. In 30 years of travel, I didn't cheat.


----------



## Whip Morgan

I've been reading the TAM boards for close to a year now. I'd bet a paycheck (not that it's much, so i'd throw in a few other posters $$) that she has been unfaithful. This discovery of evidence might lead to the tip of the iceberg of a past history. Then again, Sham may not care to dig jnto the past - his hands are full now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating

In any event, a face to face discussion is the only way to play the cards from both sides. He may be very right and it sure looks like it.


----------



## 8yearscheating

If it were me, I'd have met her getting off the plane in Vegas or flown to where she was previously and had that conversation.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> I'll also add all you have done in your conversations and texting is try to bait her. Never once did you lay out the fact you were preparing to divorce her if she didn't come home. So, she is totally ignorant to all of the machinations you have gone through and built up in your mind. Doe your wife deserve ANY honesty at all from you? I think she does.


My wife knows that her going on a trip with two guys to Vegas will be a deal breaker. He did not bait her.

Why are you messing with this guys head. Seriously WTF?

Not all men are willing to put up with a cheating wife. Even the appearance of a wife cheating should be her concern.

His wife took vows. He does not need to threaten her. Threatening is controlling. He took the high road.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Bu then again I fight for what I want.


----------



## Whip Morgan

8 - what Sham is preparing to do may serve as the wakeup call. Out of the blue? I don't think as much. She knows something is up, chose to head home, then decided to get her party on instead. 8 I've read your nightmare story from the beginning. Your R proves that R is possible. If I recall correctly, you laid out the terms of a D. Afterwards your wife decided to try, and here yu are months later. While Sham has not yet told her what he is doing, she cannot be so fogged that she is oblivious to there being something wrong here. You might call it an ambush, but if popping the D on her is a bucket of cold water to wake her up, I don't know what is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> 8-
> Look at the conversation ( a few hundred post back) and the fact that she has gone off to Vegas with no regard to his request that she come home or you meet her out there.
> 
> She has checked out knowing that there is a problem and has refused (IMO) to work it out. I have a strong feeling that she believes Shamwow is not man to take the action required.
> 
> It seems he has confronted her but she continues her beahvior. If it was his house you would have suggested that he ask her to leave if she choose to continue the affair.
> 
> Some times you just have to let them go.
> 
> I get it, this is a pro marriage forum and every one is hell bent on Shamwow bailling out, but again he has to let her go, granted he can always move back if she desides to do the heavy lifting and recommit to the marriage, b/c your right there is no hard proof of a PA but at the very least there is a EA and until she admits and own up to it then distancing him self is the best play to get her to see her unhealthy behavior.


Being pro marriage is one thing. Being pro cuckold is simply wrong.

This is Talk About Marriage.

Not Please F^ck My Wife.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Being honest and stating what you will do and what you must have are not controlling.


----------



## the guy

I think its poetic justice.
Why give her the chance to talk her way out of it? I can see two wrongs don't make it right but diappering is still a just reward for her cheating. This still can have a chance to work out but the statement Sham is making is powerful enough to make her rethink her life choices. 

I just think even with a face to face and the mention ...or warning of divorce will still lead to the same out come. She's check out long ago, Shamwow is just catching up.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I agree she needs a wakeup call. AFter there has been a conversation that lasts more than 3 minutes.


----------



## nada

Entropy3000 said:


> He just does not have to do anything rash now. And he just flat may be so involved with his new life he no longer cares.
> 
> But he is welll within his rights to let the OM feel some of the pain. He gets to choose. Which is empowering in itself.


:iagree:
That is what is important. Excellent progress:smthumbup:


----------



## Whip Morgan

Perhaps we're all overlooking the possibility that whatever uncertainties Sham faces, the facts and behaviors of his wife simply are deal breakers. Spending , lies, and partying with other men. For some, hats knowledge enough to realize that she is a wife in name only
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> If it were me, I'd have met her getting off the plane in Vegas or flown to where she was previously and had that conversation.


And if it were me, the OM would have already been in the hospital and I would be in the Vegas jail talking pro marriage to my bunk mates.

I am not a submissive man. I do not get the impression from the OP he is ok with being cuckolded.


----------



## 8yearscheating

He'll know soon enough. I'll withhold further comment till it plays out.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Bu then again I fight for what I want.


This is not about you


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Being honest and stating what you will do and what you must have are not controlling.


His first obligation is to be true to himself. She is the liar here.


----------



## the guy

I'm missing something, what the fixation on cuckold, Sham is not tolorating her behavior so good for him, its just how he's handling it that is in debate know.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Perhaps we're all overlooking the possibility that whatever uncertainties Sham faces, the facts and behaviors of his wife simply are deal breakers. Spending , lies, and partying with other men. For some, hats knowledge enough to realize that she is a wife in name only
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly what I am saying. All of this is a deal breaker to a man that wants to have a real loving relationship with his wife. She has pi$$ed on is trust.


----------



## Whip Morgan

To each his own. People come to the board for advice, but ultimately it's up to them. Some people take action( like you 8, or RWB, workingitout, aaahman, Mori), others linger: disbelief, MNG, hurtinginTN. Not everyone has the desire to try to save it. Now I do believe that once the dust settles it is possible things could change. Could Sham sticking up for himself snap her out of it? If so, perhaps in time she could come around. But Sham may not be there. 

Time will tell. But the ugly truth is that not every BS realizes how wrong they were, like RWBs wife or yours. But is it possible in time? Sure. For now, Sham is playing the hand he was dealt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> I'm missing something, what the fixation on cuckold, Sham is not tolorating her behavior so good for him, its just how he's handling it that is in debate know.


My comment is not aimed at Sham. He gets it. It is aimed at those who at any cost want the man to accept this type of behavior. Her beahvior is beyod all reason.

I use cuckold because that is what she is doing right now. He needs no additional proof. Needing additional proof is absurd.


----------



## morituri

8 years,

You are a man of character and honor who deeply loves and cares for his wife. THAT is why you never cheated on your wife. You never did anything remotely close to what ShamWow's wife has done and is doing. You may have been a business traveler like ShamWow's wife but that is where the similarities end.


----------



## nada

Entropy3000 said:


> So the reply might be : Adios
> 
> Or something more classy like: "Farewell my love"
> 
> I actually think being classy is harder for people to deal with. The high ground. Kinda lets them know more how wrong they are. Somewhere deep inside her psyche is a remnant of who she used to be and never will be again. That was the woman you loved. She is who you need to say goodbye to. The woman who took over her body is not worth talking to.
> 
> Be quiet for now. Go dark. This is powerful.


:iagree:
I would go with classy or cold/indifferent.

Nada


----------



## Entropy3000

Anyway, good luck Sham. You are on the right track.


----------



## joe kidd

Sorry you are even having to deal with this Sham. Be strong .


----------



## Whip Morgan

Agreed, Entropy. Sham is on a rollercoaster for sure, But I think he is on the right track as well. Gotta take care of yourself, personal healing. Who knows, an R could be possible down the road. But for now, work with what you have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nada

Entropy3000 said:


> Her behavior is unfaithful. I don't care if there was penetration or not. She has not been faithful to her husband. She has shown utter disrespect for him. She has lied. She went on a trip with two guys in secret. When he called her on it she went anyway. The OM has been at least one trip with her.
> 
> Whether she is banging anyone or not is not the point. What he knows for sure now is reason enough to divorce her.
> 
> He does need to slam the door with her. It does not matter if there was penetration or not.
> 
> I bet my next ten paycheck there has. But her behavior is unfaithful. She giggled at him when he wanted sex with her. She is withholding intimacy from him. She has spent a lot of money to perpare her presentation to these males for sexual purposes. Lingerie. Waxing and so on. She went to F^cking Vegas with two F^cking guys in secret and did not want her husband along. HELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Un-F^cking-Acceptable.
> 
> So he does not need this conjecture now.
> 
> People need boundaries. It is not on him. This is her problem. Move on.


I totally agree. She has shown utter disrespect for her partner in life. Are anyone *really* believe she has not been cheating? She shows all the classic signs of a cheating partner. It seems naive to think that she is a loyal trustworthy wife.

Nada


----------



## aug

My suggestions:

1. Keep the ring. It's worth some money and a reminder of things past.

2. Drain the joint bank account now. Why leave the extra $200 or so in there?

3. Do not respond to her text or call.

4. There is plenty of time later to readjust things if need be.

5. Protect self. File divorce.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Entropy, I am not in any way suggesting he accept her behaviour. It is wrong and spiteful and very disrectful. If it is a deal breaker for shamwow that is his decision. The OTHER party in this marriage has been tried, convicted and divorced without even a chance to discuss or attempt to change her ways. Money - what is her expense arrangement with her employer? WHen I travelled internationally a trip of that duration with air fare could easily exceed 25K! My previous employer paid me back WHEN I submitted expenses although I could get advances BEFORE I left. I agree she has done a lot things wrong and it all points to something being very wrong. Shamwow is in a state of shock and disbelief. Not a good time to be making long term decisions that many are pushing him towards. Have the discussions face to face then decide.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Another valid point, 8. But that depends on whether she would want to change her ways. And most of all: if Sham wants to stick around. Yes, a face to face will b necessary. But Sham has more than enough to know that she is up to no good. As Entropy tried to get at earlier, this alone could be a dealbreaker. I still believe, though, as time moves on and the dust settles, things could be worked out if both parties work to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

8yearscheating said:


> I'll also add all you have done in your conversations and texting is try to bait her. Never once did you lay out the fact you were preparing to divorce her if she didn't come home. So, she is totally ignorant to all of the machinations you have gone through and built up in your mind. Doe your wife deserve ANY honesty at all from you? I think she does.


*facepalm*


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> When I go do I leave my ring for effect? Or sell it?


To prepare for your new life, read (or reread) The Game by Neil Strauss. This book is quite encouraging for your way forward and helps to focus on the future.

Best of luck man.

Nada


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Entropy3000 said:


> Her behavior is unfaithful. I don't care if there was penetration or not. She has not been faithful to her husband. She has shown utter disrespect for him. She has lied. She went on a trip with two guys in secret. When he called her on it she went anyway. The OM has been at least one trip with her.
> 
> Whether she is banging anyone or not is not the point. What he knows for sure now is reason enough to divorce her.
> 
> He does need to slam the door with her. It does not matter if there was penetration or not.
> 
> I bet my next ten paycheck there has. But her behavior is unfaithful. She giggled at him when he wanted sex with her. She is withholding intimacy from him. She has spent a lot of money to perpare her presentation to these males for sexual purposes. Lingerie. Waxing and so on. She went to F^cking Vegas with two F^cking guys in secret and did not want her husband along. HELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Un-F^cking-Acceptable.
> 
> So he does not need this conjecture now.
> 
> People need boundaries. It is not on him. This is her problem. Move on.


+1


----------



## morituri

Question time? Who is actually looking after his best interests at this moment, us or his 'wife'?


----------



## nada

morituri said:


> Question time? Who is actually looking after his best interests at this moment, us or his 'wife'?


:iagree:


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Whip Morgan said:


> Another valid point, 8. But that depends on whether she would want to change her ways. And most of all: if Sham wants to stick around. Yes, a face to face will b necessary. But Sham has more than enough to know that she is up to no good. As Entropy tried to get at earlier, this alone *could* be a dealbreaker. I still believe, though, as time moves on and the dust settles, things could be worked out if both parties work to do so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are no COULDS for this one.
It is exactly this: DEAL BREAKER


----------



## Shamwow

8yearscheating said:


> The OTHER party in this marriage has been tried, convicted and divorced without even a chance to discuss or attempt to change her ways. Money - what is her expense arrangement with her employer? WHen I travelled internationally a trip of that duration with air fare could easily exceed 25K! My previous employer paid me back WHEN I submitted expenses although I could get advances BEFORE I left. I agree she has done a lot things wrong and it all points to something being very wrong. Shamwow is in a state of shock and disbelief. Not a good time to be making long term decisions that many are pushing him towards. Have the discussions face to face then decide.


From Page 5 of this thread:


"The night before she left when we talked I brought up (again) about him calling and texting her so much, and that he clearly had other things in mind than being chatty. And that friends were fine, *but if anything started to seem to her like he was trying to move beyond that, particularly a PA, that would be unacceptable and she knew I wouldn't stand for anything like that. She agreed and swore there was nothing to worry about*. Clearly she knew I was suspicious now, the temp in the room was up (at least tension-wise) and let the lying commence...................


................So she knew I was suspicious, I DID give her an explicit warning of my concern, and she lied..............."


From Page 8 of thyis thread:

"Me: "Sorry - it does look bad, and I don't think it's cool for you to just go and do this, especially after me asking you not to for obvious reasons. You know that. You're putting yourself in a bad situation with this trip. I know you're a big girl and can take care of yourself, but why even go there? *I don't want to tell you what to do, but I pretty much have to here. So I don't know how to fix something like this either, but it seems like the easiest way to start would be to COME HOME*, because clearly this weekend is not going to do us any good. Or...since I have the weekend free, I'd love to come out and tear it up with you guys. We always have fun in Party City. Pick one."




I agree, I have not sat her down and said the words "I am without a doubt going to divorce you because of this behavior - right now". But I've certainly not jumped to divorce in my own mind without telling her I won't stand to be treated this way. She hasn't been tried, convicted and sentenced to divorce without possibility of parole or being allowed to consult with her attorney. I've mentioned in the thread that it's always been our explicit agreement that infidelity would mean the other person LEAVING. I think I made it clear that what she was considering (and doing) would be unacceptable to me and she knew what that meant, without saying the words "I am leaving immediately if you do this". That is the only course of action I have left, for myself, for her, and our marriage.

And let's be honest, she hasn't been tried or allowed to argue her case because *she's not here*. I don't think these discussions should for any reason be had over the phone. I can only believe 50% of a person on the phone. In person there's truth in body language.

I hear what you're saying, and I have to admit I'm having trouble embracing the "leave under cover of night" tactic. I would like to have this discussion with her face to face, but I'm not sure what the point would be. Is it possible she really hasn't gotten my point? I guess it's possible. The words I've said were direct, and the manner I said them was calm and direct, but it's very possible she hasn't been shaken or jarred by them, judging by her responses. She either doesn't give a s**t and is flaunting it in my face, or she may give a s**t and I haven't slapped her (proverbially) hard enough to make her realize this is it. Now or never. Wake up and sack up, or *peace out, crazy lady*. So...I am still deciding whether or not to be vacated when she arrives (though I will have anything of consequence packed, and large or important items already off premises). I don't want my marriage to end. But I feel like I have to light it on fire and walk away...and if she decides to try and put out the fire, I'd like to think I might at least pay attention and reassess what's possible in this world. But it has been the one "dealbreaker" that we've always both discussed, so going back on that could do more damage than good in the long term.


As far as the money goes, she spent the majority of the money in question before she left this last time (a week ago), on things that have nothing to do with work. I've never questioned her needing money on the road, yeah, it adds up. She's in charge of a group and she often buys dinner and drinks for the whole gang. Sometimes she has to put hotel rooms, rental cars, computer equipment, etc on our cards and get reimbursed. But what we're talking about is pre-trip spending - cosmetic (hair, skin treatments, waxing), lingerie, and above all, stashing cash for hotel/flight and partying in Vegas. Not business expenses that I'm concerned about.


I also FULLY agree that this is not a good time for me to be making long-term decisions. I asked my buddy what day it was today. He said, "You asked me that the other day too." Clearly I'm reeling. But what can I do besides try to get myself as clear as possible and move forward? If I sit here and pretend all is well for a week or two while I get it "all straightened out in my head" then the time for action will have passed. Again. And she will think everything that has happened is okay by me. And I will be truly deserving of any and all "lack of balls" comments that may arise. I really believe I have to trust my gut and make some s**t happen NOW or I will be kicking myself for years to come. Even if I'm wrong about some things, and even if I jump too far on certain topics, the point will be made that I WILL NOT take what is being presented to me. If I have to feel bad later about finding out I overreacted on one or two things regarding the actions of my wife and the supposed sanctity of our marriage, so be it. That would make me male. If it can't be forgiven, that would be par for the course.


----------



## the guy

Pack up, you can always move back after she take a polygrph test clearing her of any PA.

Guilty until proven inicent.


----------



## Shamwow

DanG said:


> Consider the possibility and "opportunity" that this has been one big **** test - either conscious or subconscious. You have noted a lot of her actions which she easily could have been more descreat about, but chose for you to see or "discover." What about optimizing the situation to create a "fantasy " FAR more exciting and Alpha than she (or you) could have dreamed up. "She has been a VERY bad girl . . . " She has been a naughty little , SPOILED *****. She deserves to admit she was bad, apologize, and be prepared to make restitution to you. You could start with a semi-serious spanking. The rest is by your design . . . Or maybe you could BOTH could come up with a restitution/restoration plan. Be Alpha all the way. If you /she want to keep you marriage this could be an opportuniy to "make lemonaid out of lemons." On your end, YOU are are going to have to become a lot more Alpha - because it is obvious she needs it. - just my first time posting .02.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Dan, I truly appreciate this sentiment, and would LOVE to be able to employ this course of action, but that would've had to have been two months ago. And I wouldn't touch her with my ten-foot pole right now (sic). 

She needs Alpha...I'll give it to her, but not in any way that gratifies her for her recent behavior. Just in the way that shows I don't need her and she should've been lucky to have me, not the other way around.


----------



## Anubis

Shamwow,
Yes, by all means, stick to your plans. 8years can't seem to look past his own situation when looking at yours.

Let me offer up mine as a counterpoint lens:

I am a man who DIDN'T Stick to his guns, and backed down from standing up to my ex- (who shares some traits with your wife). The exact story is too long for a post now, but as I said earlier, my failure to act, quickly and decisively, was and is MY GREATEST REGRET. 

You just said "I really believe I have to trust my gut and make some s**t happen NOW or I will be kicking myself for years to come." - You are my hero man! Stick to this and you are being the guy I wish I was. And that is coming from a man, whom if you met in other circumstances, you'd likely be very impressed with.

When things exploded in my marriage, my now ex-wife used whatever holes she could find in my armor and resolve and exploited them as much as possible. She attacked me relentlessly, wanting to know what I knew (so she could damage control and trickle truth). She pushed every button of mine she could in an effort to disrupt me and regain and maintain control over me. She would constant tell me that whatever I though I knew was wrong, that my memory was faulty, and that there was an 'innocent' explanation for everything I had caught her in or found evidence for. She would go from ice queen to pouncing on me and dragging me to the bedroom in an instant when she thought that would help her position.

Odd are that your wife will do something similar - she will use her knowledge of you, push your buttons, and use any means she can to defuse you and regain control of the situation (while still not respecting you a bit). Moving all your stuff to safety, and clearing out for a while a smart plan - you are minimizing the window of opportunity she will have to try an exert control over you thru.

I too, consider myself a "nice guy", so in my mind I told myself that I should give our marriage "every possible chance" and keep trying. It turns out that's a bunch of bulllc**p. It hurt me to keep on giving in to her. If someone has no respect for you, and is getting a free ride from you, they WILL exploit the situation for as much personal gain as you will let them, and they'll tell you whatever lies they think will keep the gravy train running.

Remember what your wife said to you years ago? About the guy not having any idea when she was planning her exit strategy? My ex-said something like that to me the first year we were married, too. I mentioned it to her years later, and a few other times after that, and she denied ever saying that each time. When I insisted she did, she would attack me until I relented and told her she must be right.

*whew*


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Agreed, Entropy. Sham is on a rollercoaster for sure, But I think he is on the right track as well. Gotta take care of yourself, personal healing. Who knows, an R could be possible down the road. But for now, work with what you have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree. He may indeed decide on reconsiling down the road. This in my opinion is the most direct route to get there as strange as that may seem.


----------



## Shamwow

Anubis said:


> She pushed every button of mine she could in an effort to disrupt me and regain and maintain control over me. She would constant tell me that whatever I though I knew was wrong, that my memory was faulty, and that there was an 'innocent' explanation for everything I had caught her in or found evidence for.


Anubis, wow...sounds like you married a woman very much like my wife. While there are plenty of rosy memories (as is pretty much the foundation of why any of us marry someone), my wife has always been quick to button-pushing in pressure situations. When I confronted her the night before she left a week ago, she was calm and emotionless and calculated in her responses (as I too was doing...must've looked pretty odd, two people talking some serious s**t with no apparent emotion), countering mine before I even had a chance to finish my sentence. My "planned dialogue" was turned around at each point with something that would diffuse the severity of what I was pointing out. Which would leave me saying, "Okay...but what about...", which would lead her to the next counterpoint. If she said something hurtful, she let er rip as if it didn't matter, and I was wrong for questioning her (holy s**t, that's what an Alpha does...*facepalm*). I think I stood my ground well, considering I had prepared well for the talk, but I left feeling like my points were invalidated before I had a chance to nail them down.

Funny thing is I'm much better at "winning" a debate than she is. But logic does not prevail with her. I can go round and round for hours and make my point perfectly 20 times, but still end up being confused as to whether or not I got the point across. But when the pressure's on she's willing to let loose with whatever will either hurt the other person the most and shut them up, or whatever will confuse their argument and make them question why they're talking to her. (she used to apologize the next day and say she was wrong if she was though) Don't see this side of her often, but it's always been there to some degree. See it a lot more lately since I've been consciously standing up to this recent bs.

I'm guessing since she knew she was covering things up, she had some stories in place to whip out as the need arose. 

Which is why I need to drop the big one and show her I couldn't care less about walking, and see if that puts her off guard. If it doesn't, so be it. Why fight for that? If it does and the ball is in my court again...must leave anyway and let her decide what she cares about.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Entropy, I am not in any way suggesting he accept her behaviour. It is wrong and spiteful and very disrectful. If it is a deal breaker for shamwow that is his decision. The OTHER party in this marriage has been tried, convicted and divorced without even a chance to discuss or attempt to change her ways. Money - what is her expense arrangement with her employer? WHen I travelled internationally a trip of that duration with air fare could easily exceed 25K! My previous employer paid me back WHEN I submitted expenses although I could get advances BEFORE I left. I agree she has done a lot things wrong and it all points to something being very wrong. Shamwow is in a state of shock and disbelief. Not a good time to be making long term decisions that many are pushing him towards. Have the discussions face to face then decide.


8,

I think we both want the best for him. So I will tone down my rhetoric. I confess I feel for his situation. It is compelling. He can certainly move ahead with his plans to divorce right now. She needs a wakeup call. He can back off if he so decides.

Notice I have not made comments about using scorched earth with her. There is no point. She is hurting herself. As hurtful as she has been he can take the high road now. Somewhere buried deep inside her, is the woman he once loved. She has run her husband off. Her loss. He does not need to be hateful. There is no need. Now he owes the OM no quarter. But he can deal with him later if he so chooses. Now is not the time for that.

I think we all agree he needs to work on himself. I would actually be thrilled for him if he could get her to turn it all around. She needs that reality jolt in my opinion.

Oh well lets see how this plays out.

Her actions are so hard to believe. Yet having been in an EA myself I know that ones head just is not right. My wife had to snap me back to reality, so at the very least this is tough love. She seems on a self destructive path IMHO. I don't think he fixes this with hugs right now. She needs the proverbial two by four. That worked for my wife with me. I hope it does for her as well.

This stuff really tears me up.


----------



## Anubis

Shamwow said:


> Funny thing is I'm much better at "winning" a debate than she is. But logic does not prevail with her. I can go round and round for hours and make my point perfectly 20 times, but still end up being confused as to whether or not I got the point across. But when the pressure's on she's willing to let loose with whatever will either hurt the other person the most and shut them up, or whatever will confuse their argument and make them question why they're talking to her.


That's because to her it's not about finding truth, or being logical. My ex- suffered from what I called "good girl" syndrome. If something could make her look bad or guilty no matter how true it was, it didn't matter and she couldn't allow for it to exist. She would come up with crazy explanations or cover stories and batter me verbally until I gave in. That extended to her never being the one to blame for her affairs (how many she had, I actually don't know, but I know of several). That girl had her own warped reality, and would move heaven and earth to make everyone around her acknowledge it as correct, no matter how many laws of physics it violated.


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Shamwow said:


> Dan, I truly appreciate this sentiment, and would LOVE to be able to employ this course of action, but that would've had to have been two months ago. And I wouldn't touch her with my ten-foot pole right now (sic).
> 
> She needs Alpha...I'll give it to her, but not in any way that gratifies her for her recent behavior. *Just in the way that shows I don't need her and she should've been lucky to have me, not the other way around*.


Don't you just love it when a person realises their worth?
+1 Mr. Shamwow, +1


----------



## Anubis

Shamwow,

Some advice from my own past experiences. 

You need to protect yourself for her her return, as she could do some very unexpected things, like trashing your property.

Get everything that you can't deal with losing out of the house tomorrow. Personal momentos, photographs, records, hand me downs and what-nots. And all your records and important papers. All of them go either with you, or to your new storage unit.

If your car is small, go rent a small truck for the day from U-haul. It's VERY cheap. Get yourself a dolly or two, and you can move filing cabinets, etc, very easily.

You probably want to get a video recorder of some sort, and do a detailed walk-through of your house (and garage, and yard) both before, and after your move your stuff out. Perhaps even a video inventory of what you took would be useful. Take video of what you leave behind, including all of her things. The purpose is two-fold. To document the condition of everything in case she goes nuts and damages and destroys things. (This happens WAAAY more often than you would think). The other is to document that you DID NOT take any of her things, nor did you damage or destroy them, in the event she falsely claims you did.

Finally, take the time to go though her things in the house very carefully to see if she has taken anything of yours. My ex- wife had swiped all of my High School year books and stashed them with a bunch of her personal files (WTF?) I swiped them back, along with the 1876 silver dollar from my great grandfather that she got sticky-fingered about. You might also turn up some interesting "evidence" that you want to document, in anticipation of the divorce negotiations.

Your constant posts and updates have kept us glued to our laptops (lord knows there wasn't much on TV this weekend..), but I expect you to be away from the keyboard and very, very busy tomorrow. See your lawyer. Get a U-haul. and Pack. You can pack up a truck in the evening and overnight, delivering the last load Tuesday morning, before heading out to your friends for a well-needed getaway.

Protect yourself, and minimize your exposure to all the c**p she is likely to throw your way.


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks Anubis. Have started packing up my office, software, etc, tonight.

This is very hard...


----------



## Stonewall

8years,

This is a civil case not a criminal case. It should be decided by a preponderance of the evidence which he clearly has; proof beyond a shadow of a doubt is not necessary.


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> Thanks Anubis. Have started packing up my office, software, etc, tonight.
> 
> This is very hard...


Change usually is.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> I'm just going to throw out one thing here. Everything you have as PROOF is circumstantial and if you were trying to convict in court for a crime you would lose.


You weren't on the OJ or Casey Anthony juries, were you? Criminal cases are decided on circumstantial evidence every day. And they should be. It shouldn't take video or DNA for Shamwow to conclude that his wife is in a PA. The evidence is pretty damn overwhelming. To the point that there can be no reasonable doubt that she is cheating.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> I'll also add all you have done in your conversations and texting is try to bait her. Never once did you lay out the fact you were preparing to divorce her if she didn't come home. So, she is totally ignorant to all of the machinations you have gone through and built up in your mind. Doe your wife deserve ANY honesty at all from you? I think she does.


I disagree. A cheating wife does not deserve any warning regarding her husband's plans. SW and his wife have had a long-standing agreement that infidelity means divorce. He reiterated that before she left. And she did it anyway.

Perhaps you think that a betrayed spouse is required to say, "I know you are cheating and this is how I know, so I'm going to give you some more chances to stop or else I will do X, Y, and Z." And I agree that that would be more effective at stopping the affair than vague threats. But, this is a marriage without children where the OP has said that a PA would be a deal breaker. Well, the deal has been broken. So what would be the point of saying, "I know you've cheated for the past week, but I would like you not to cheat this weekend, too."?

The divorce train has left the station with SW aboard. He is under no obligation to inform his STBX about his whereabouts or state of mind.


----------



## Halien

Some have great tolerance, which is to be admired, in my opinion. On the other hand, single acts, weighed like a jury, are not what I would make a decision on. The point is would not be whether she had an affair for me. Its the intentional black out of communication, lack of concern for my feelings, and being willing to say that if we aren't much fun, she'll just go have fun alone. Plus, you have financial infidelity at a time when the house is under water. That spells betrayal of the marriage. Personally, I just wouldn't be hung up on whether I had enough proof of an affair. You have a long period of marriage betrayal, which many people have little tolerance for. She's following a personal agenda in her life, and the husband is just the back up bank of money.


----------



## morituri

Halien said:


> Some have great tolerance, which is to be admired, in my opinion. On the other hand, single acts, weighed like a jury, are not what I would make a decision on. The point is would not be whether she had an affair for me. *Its the intentional black out of communication, lack of concern for my feelings, and being willing to say that if we aren't much fun, she'll just go have fun alone. Plus, you have financial infidelity at a time when the house is under water. That spells betrayal of the marriage.* Personally, I just wouldn't be hung up on whether I had enough proof of an affair. You have a long period of marriage betrayal, which many people have little tolerance for. She's following a personal agenda in her life, and the husband is just the back up bank of money.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Not sure I'll do the face to face. Thinking about moving most of my stuff out, leaving and going to visit a buddy of mine out of town for a few days. I find it hard to deal with leaving her blind (as it's way out of character for me)...but it's definitely on my mind as the strongest option. And way out of character may be the best thing for me to be right now...hell, she certainly is.
> 
> But...inevitably there'll be a face to face at some point, whether it be when she comes home or a week or two later when we have to meet over taxes/lawyer stuff...or if she tracks me down somehow and tries to talk to me. I will remain calm...and try to record the audio on my phone just in case. Thanks.


Definitely avoid the face-to-face. It could give the irrational "oh **** I'm screwed" monster the chance to trump up charges against you, etc. Best to not be physically present.


----------



## ManDup

Ticonderoga said:


> Plus her change of Vegas travel plans and comments like - "we aren't having fun anymore".


"we aren't having fun anymore" coupled with "I want to have fun with my friends" in the same conversation. Fun=sex.


----------



## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> Entropy, I am not in any way suggesting he accept her behaviour. It is wrong and spiteful and very disrectful. If it is a deal breaker for shamwow that is his decision. The OTHER party in this marriage has been tried, convicted and divorced without even a chance to discuss or attempt to change her ways. Money - what is her expense arrangement with her employer? WHen I travelled internationally a trip of that duration with air fare could easily exceed 25K! My previous employer paid me back WHEN I submitted expenses although I could get advances BEFORE I left. I agree she has done a lot things wrong and it all points to something being very wrong. Shamwow is in a state of shock and disbelief. Not a good time to be making long term decisions that many are pushing him towards. Have the discussions face to face then decide.


Hmm... I wonder why most states have a waiting period for divorce cases.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Some have great tolerance, which is to be admired, in my opinion. On the other hand, single acts, weighed like a jury, are not what I would make a decision on. The point is would not be whether she had an affair for me. Its the intentional black out of communication, lack of concern for my feelings, and being willing to say that if we aren't much fun, she'll just go have fun alone. Plus, you have financial infidelity at a time when the house is under water. That spells betrayal of the marriage. Personally, I just wouldn't be hung up on whether I had enough proof of an affair. You have a long period of marriage betrayal, which many people have little tolerance for. She's following a personal agenda in her life, and the husband is just the back up bank of money.


:iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> "we aren't having fun anymore" coupled with "I want to have fun with my friends" in the same conversation. Fun=sex.


Yes


----------



## ManDup

Anubis said:


> This whole thing is giving me flashbacks.
> 
> What if 8yearschating and Whip Morgan are right? ... The evidence may be all circumstantial, but there is so much of it at this point the odds that it's an affair are greater than 99%.
> 
> And that fraction of a percent? if so, then his wife is still guilty of having ZERO respect for him, and it has been that way for a good while now. That is NOT a marriage.
> 
> So the "best case" is that she has lost complete respect for him and treats him like dirt. And that is the most unlikely of cases.
> 
> I can not image ANY situation with his circumstances where she is interested in having and nurturing a good marriage with him. (I'm sure she's been daydreaming about the OM, and has probably told everyone she could how "bad" Shamwow is)


If any of the doubters can come up with even one plausible scenario where this is all "ok" and there's no disrespect going on but yet the behavior was all entirely necessary, they've got the screenplay for the next great American romantic comedy on their hands. It'll be called, "Oops, I Divorced You." 

But this ain't the movies, where it's all just some big misunderstanding. This is real life, where she is getting her brains banged out.


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> Hmm... I wonder why most states have a waiting period for divorce cases.


Yeah, I think he has to proceed with her being served the papers. He can decide to back out later. She has betrayed him in so many ways that this is the right action. She is way too comfortable in telling him what is ok for her to do with other men, money, time, trips and so on.

She is not married, but he is. He is a roommate and not even a close one at that. She would have told her roommate her plans.


----------



## Shamwow

Just realized she left her keys here. She has no way to get into the house when she gets back. That may sound funny, but I'm not going there (no car, no next job, no immediate money, no credit, *no keys*?). I suppose I have to contact her in some way and tell her I can't pick her up tomorrow, find a ride, and there's a key under the _____.

P.S. Have the petition in my hands as of this AM. Scared the s**t out of me at first. When I sign this thing in front of a notary, what does that officially mean? (I just sent my lawyer an email asking the same thing, but figured I'd ask here too because I'd really like to know) Does that mean that the papers are officially "Filed" with the court, or does it just mean I agree with what's in the petition and am prepared to move forward and officially file at a not pre-determined future date?


----------



## WhereAmI

Leave her keys at the neighbor's house last minute and a note on the door letting her know they're there. The less you prepare her for the shock that you're a man of your word, the better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ticonderoga

Shamwow;403299 Does that mean that the papers are officially "Filed" with the court said:


> I my state not until she is offically served. I avoid the server for 5 days it cost my W $500. Plus all assets are on a kind of lock down at that point.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Just realized she left her keys here. She has no way to get into the house when she gets back. That may sound funny, but I'm not going there (no car, no next job, no immediate money, no credit, *no keys*?). I suppose I have to contact her in some way and tell her I can't pick her up tomorrow, find a ride, and there's a key under the _____.
> 
> P.S. Have the petition in my hands as of this AM. Scared the s**t out of me at first. When I sign this thing in front of a notary, what does that officially mean? (I just sent my lawyer an email asking the same thing, but figured I'd ask here too because I'd really like to know) Does that mean that the papers are officially "Filed" with the court, or does it just mean I agree with what's in the petition and am prepared to move forward and officially file at a not pre-determined future date?



You don't even know when she's flying in. She's waiting for your pay for fun moneys so she can gamble with her boyfriend? Who gives a rat's ass how or if she gets home or in the house. Seriously. If she had kids with her, different answer. I wouldn't be 'cruel" about it - just pretend you didn't notice and when she calls for help, you're having fun with others and can't rescue her because frankly she's no fun anymore!

ETA she can rip out her $1400 hair extensions and pay a locksmith.
Or leave keys in mailbox. You are far too kind! She deserves to sleep in the dog house!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Amalgum Tattoo

Wow - Shamwow, my man - your posts about your wife's arguing style (or attempts at control), as well as the posts from Anubis - DEAD ON accurate with what my ex-wife used to do to me. She tried logic at first and then when all else failed, she would start accusing me of bizarre stuff to throw me off. Sometimes, she would even lose control herself. But often, if I was right, she would completely lose her temper and go all out ******* - which was odd for a chick that looked like a librarian lol.

Something I wanted to throw out there - she left her wedding ring right? Hide it, take it, whatever. Make her panic about it and keep it in your bag of tricks.

Keep up the good alpha work.


----------



## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> Just realized she left her keys here.


 Play dumb don't say anything let her figure it out or have to call you to get into the house ??? Why is that your your problem ?? She sure didn't give a hoot about your concerns/feelings because she wasn't having fun with you at the moment.


----------



## the guy

I wise I could help with the law stuff...sorry.

But the key thing......why worry, leave the house open, all your stuff is gone any way?

Bad idea I know, so put them on one of the dogs collars and when she gets her dog she can get her keys. Enless you plan on taking the her dog.... now that cold.

How about mailing them to the OM place? Thats right he's not local.

I still wouldn't confront stay dark as long as you can.

At the very least give them to the friend who has the dogs. 

I would wait for the last possible minute to play your hand, even putting her keys in a locker at the airport.

Have you found out what time on Tue. she will arrive, that may be the time to call her.

the count down;
5) no contact from H
4) no pick up from H
3) no house keys from H
2) no stuff in my house
1) no H period

quote from her " sh~t he final did it"


----------



## Shamwow

Yeah, I guess I have other options for the keys than I first thought. Should probably think longer before posting on new developments.

Her flight arrives Tues at 6:30pm.


----------



## the guy

7:30pm should be a good time to call her informing her that you won't pick her up and her dog and keys are at X.Y,&Z

Post away bro...you have the whole dam forum at you disposel for perspective, ideas, and advice.

Your thread is huge!!!!!!


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Bad idea I know, so put them on one of the dogs collars and when she gets her dog she can get her keys. Enless you plan on taking the her dog.... now that cold.


We have two dogs, we both pretty much know whose would be whose, as much as it will suck to split the little guys up.


----------



## the guy

Well at least she has her dog.

Ya I just put my dog down and my wifes dog misses it big time.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Ya I just put my dog down and my wifes dog misses it big time.


Sorry to hear that man...hate to even think about that day. But then, I hate to think about tomorrow too.


----------



## Entropy3000

Ticonderoga said:


> Play dumb don't say anything let her figure it out or have to call you to get into the house ??? Why is that your your problem ?? She sure didn't give a hoot about your concerns/feelings because she wasn't having fun with you at the moment.


:iagree:

The keys are not his problem at all. he should nto start backsliding and trying to protect her. She needs to deal with her situation. This just drives it home. he needs to stay dark.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Yeah, I guess I have other options for the keys than I first thought. Should probably think longer before posting on new developments.
> 
> Her flight arrives Tues at 6:30pm.


How do you know this? She told you or you intercepted?

Why would she not tell you?


----------



## the guy

Tue. will come and go, you have the rest of your life in front of you without some ball and chain giving you any more grief.


----------



## Anubis

Oh don't get me started. My dog (only ever had one), whom I rescued as pup shortly after I married was with me when everything went to heck and I had moved out into an apartment (She didn't want to be 'bothered' by him, so he went with me) . He stayed with me, even went to work with me and stayed under my desk while I worked (we had a very pet-friendly policy). He got sick late in the divorce process, and one day after work as we walked into my tiny apartment, he just walked over to the bathroom door, laid down, and I think I'm going to go cry now.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I hate to say, but the folks quiting me are way too much like Obama - twist it to fit your needs.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> How do you know this? She told you or you intercepted?QUOTE]
> 
> It was intercepted in the initial flight summary that I saw yesterday morning, though she did text me last night saying what time she'd be back. I did not respond.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The keys are not his problem at all. he should nto start backsliding and trying to protect her. She needs to deal with her situation. This just drives it home. he needs to stay dark.


You're right...sorry if I'm worrying everyone that I'm gonna lose my nerve, pick her up, take her out to dinner and ask how her week was, and tell her some crap about "still not liking that she lied to me".

Have faith y'all.

You know how it goes...I've been taking care of this woman for 8 years, the fact that she's not that same woman anymore means I need to act accordingly. Just kind of a new thing for me to "not think about how things will affect her".


----------



## Almostrecovered

I think that Shamwow has done such a good job in handling this that we've resorted to debating semantics over what to do with the keys. 

really?

Seriously, it's the decent thing to do. (create a reasonable way for her to get the keys without him being there) I know most everyone is out for blood due to their own circumstances and I also find myself rooting for revenge for a guy I don't even know yet creating a situation where there doesn't need to be one isn't a sign that Shamwow is going to back out on his plan. 

Doing what you need to do for yourself and creating indirect intentional harm are completely different things. 


btw- love your name SW, and I wish you the best


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know this? She told you or you intercepted?QUOTE]
> 
> It was intercepted in the initial flight summary that I saw yesterday morning, though she did text me last night saying what time she'd be back. I did not respond.
> 
> 
> 
> So I am reading that as far as she knows you do not know when she gets in.
> 
> How very odd, even under the circumstances. She should have told you this information.
Click to expand...


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> You're right...sorry if I'm worrying everyone that I'm gonna lose my nerve, pick her up, take her out to dinner and ask how her week was, and tell her some crap about "still not liking that she lied to me".
> 
> Have faith y'all.
> 
> You know how it goes...I've been taking care of this woman for 8 years, the fact that she's not that same woman anymore means I need to act accordingly. Just kind of a new thing for me to "not think about how things will affect her".


You are going to go through some very tough withdrawl for sure.

Very understandable. You have an opportunity for here to feel some of what you have by not being there. This is not vindictive. It is a reality check for her. She needs it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> I think that Shamwow has done such a good job in handling this that we've resorted to debating semantics over what to do with the keys.
> 
> really?
> 
> Seriously, it's the decent thing to do. (create a reasonable way for her to get the keys without him being there) I know most everyone is out for blood due to their own circumstances and I also find myself rooting for revenge for a guy I don't even know yet creating a situation where there doesn't need to be one isn't a sign that Shamwow is going to back out on his plan.
> 
> Doing what you need to do for yourself and creating indirect intentional harm are completely different things.
> 
> 
> btw- love your name SW, and I wish you the best


Yes, he should do the reasonable thing so she can find her kyes. Agreed. He should avoid breaking his silence however for the time being. He can do both by being creative.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Shamwow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I am reading that as far as she knows you do not know when she gets in.
> 
> How very odd, even under the circumstances. She should have told you this information.
> 
> 
> 
> No, she texted "tues 6:30 arr". If you mean, she doesn't know that I know because I haven't responded, then yes, that's possible. But she told me.
Click to expand...


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, she texted "tues 6:30 arr". If you mean, she doesn't know that I know because I haven't responded, then yes, that's possible. But she told me.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, cool. That is clear.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shamwow

Mail just came. Another check for me. 

Also, there was a notice from one of her credit cards, regarding her recent request for a credit limit increase, and unfortunately they were not able to approve it. That's about right.

Who is this woman??!

Goes to show that even as she knew she was way overspending and jamming herself financially, she figured I'd be there to save the day, even though she was disregarding me as a husband to my face.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I do wish to add that while informing the OM's wife at this point may not be in your best interests for the current plan you have enacted I do strongly suggest you inform her sometime in near future- she has a right to know

forgive me if this has already been mentioned but I just read this whole thread today


----------



## Tap1214

I agree with Almostrecovered. If I was the OM's wife, I don't care how much it will hurt, I want to know the TRUTH!! Just from a women's perspective ....


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Mail just came. Another check for me.
> 
> Also, there was a notice from one of her credit cards, regarding her recent request for a credit limit increase, and unfortunately they were not able to approve it. That's about right.
> 
> Who is this woman??!
> 
> Goes to show that even as she knew she was way overspending and jamming herself financially, she figured I'd be there to save the day, even though she was disregarding me as a husband to my face.


Wow. Increasing her limit.

Does she gamble?


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Mail just came. Another check for me.
> 
> Also, there was a notice from one of her credit cards, regarding her recent request for a credit limit increase, and unfortunately they were not able to approve it. That's about right.
> 
> Who is this woman??!
> 
> Goes to show that even as she knew she was way overspending and jamming herself financially, she figured I'd be there to save the day, even though she was disregarding me as a husband to my face.



more affirmation that you are doing the right thing


----------



## the guy

She is not the same women you married, thats for sure. I think her guilt for the affair is lessoned by her spending money.It seem the deeper she got with the affair the more money she spent?

Granted it may look like she was buying things for the OM, but her spiral in to deeper debt seems to be a factor in her guilt. I guess just another self destructing behavior on her part.

Her spending along with her cheating seems to go hand in hand, she has become a shopaholic to relieve the evil things she has done.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Wow. Increasing her limit.
> 
> Does she gamble?


She doesn't "gamble", but we like to drop a few hundo on roulette or blackjack. Neither of us has ever had trouble with losing the deed to the house or anything.


----------



## ManDup

Geez, man, get back to work so the rest of us can.


----------



## the guy

LOL

TAM better be prepared for Tue. night they may need another server to handle just this thread.


----------



## Shamwow

ManDup said:


> Geez, man, get back to work so the rest of us can.


Ha! Every time I finish part of the project and set the computers to work I take a minute and check back here.

Sorry to be multitasking like a mofo. Have no choice.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Ha! Every time I finish part of the project and set the computers to work I take a minute and check back here.
> 
> Sorry to be multitasking like a mofo. Have no choice.


While my H and I are struggling with issues right now, I would never treat him with such blatant heartlessness and disrespect. I read this whole thing last night cheering you on. Some day, this will be the best thing that ever happened to you - giving you the freedom to find someone worthy of you. She's just cruel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Ha! Every time I finish part of the project and set the computers to work I take a minute and check back here.
> 
> Sorry to be multitasking like a mofo. Have no choice.


xkcd: Compiling
:rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> xkcd: Compiling
> :rofl:


I grok.

I remember telling an old boss this. Then the compile came back with your usual warnings and errors. He freaked out. OMG there are errors. I then told, ummm, this is what we do.


----------



## Shamwow

Hate to be this guy, but starting to get nervous.


----------



## Shamwow

Also just intercepted an email for my wife from another company about a new last-minute job assignment, would put her on the coast WED morning. Don't know what she said. But if she doesn't come home tomorrow I'm gonna FREAK OUT HERE GUYS. If she takes it, that would be par for the course...it's the OM's city. I will have to fly out and throw down there. I think. Shouldn't get ahead of myself here, but if she takes this job, I can't grasp the next step here (of course, just found out about this 3 minutes ago, so have no frame of reference yet). Sigh.

This cannot go on forever.


----------



## Shamwow

And this dark thing is not easy, huh? Keeps texting me about possible new job now.

Sigh.

Going out with a buddy tonight who just got out of some legal trouble. Should be a good time. Hopefully that'll make it easier.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> And this dark thing is not easy, huh? Keeps texting me about possible new job now.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Going out with a buddy tonight who just got out of some legal trouble. Should be a good time. Hopefully that'll make it easier.


You're doing excellent! I have faith in you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Also just intercepted an email for my wife from another company about a new last-minute job assignment, would put her on the coast WED morning. Don't know what she said. But if she doesn't come home tomorrow I'm gonna FREAK OUT HERE GUYS. If she takes it, that would be par for the course...it's the OM's city. I will have to fly out and throw down there. I think. Shouldn't get ahead of myself here, but if she takes this job, I can't grasp the next step here (of course, just found out about this 3 minutes ago, so have no frame of reference yet). Sigh.
> 
> This cannot go on forever.


If she takes the job, just text her and say, "I'm done." Then get away and don't talk to her. If the marriage is important to her, she will find you.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Also just intercepted an email for my wife from another company about a new last-minute job assignment, would put her on the coast WED morning. Don't know what she said. But if she doesn't come home tomorrow I'm gonna FREAK OUT HERE GUYS. If she takes it, that would be par for the course...it's the OM's city. I will have to fly out and throw down there. I think. Shouldn't get ahead of myself here, but if she takes this job, I can't grasp the next step here (of course, just found out about this 3 minutes ago, so have no frame of reference yet). Sigh.
> 
> This cannot go on forever.


Do not fly anywhere. Stay dark. Do not answer her messages.
Whether she goes to the OM city or not is moot at this point.

If she does not come home at all, ask your lawyer what can be done for her to be served.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> If she takes the job, just text her and say, "I'm done." Then get away and don't talk to her. If the marriage is important to her, she will find you.


I think he needs a lawyers advice on this one.


----------



## Stonewall

Entropy3000 said:


> Do not fly anywhere. Stay dark. Do not answer her messages.
> Whether she goes ot the OM city or not is moot at this point.
> 
> If she does not come home at all, ask your lawyer what can be done for her to be served.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

keep your powder dry dude!


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> And this dark thing is not easy, huh? Keeps texting me about possible new job now.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Going out with a buddy tonight who just got out of some legal trouble. Should be a good time. Hopefully that'll make it easier.


So weird. Have a good time and do some things for yourself in the next few days. Sorry man.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Also just intercepted an email for my wife from another company about a new last-minute job assignment, would put her on the coast WED morning. Don't know what she said. But if she doesn't come home tomorrow I'm gonna FREAK OUT HERE GUYS. If she takes it, that would be par for the course...it's the OM's city. I will have to fly out and throw down there. I think. Shouldn't get ahead of myself here, but if she takes this job, I can't grasp the next step here (of course, just found out about this 3 minutes ago, so have no frame of reference yet). Sigh.
> 
> This cannot go on forever.



If you can't hold it in,text, but be brief. Like, are you going to be staying at your boyfriends house? Whats his phone number by the way?........ I need to talk to his wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

That is all tempting to think about. But you have invested time in being dark. Don't throw that away. Let it work.

Let this come to you.

Your silence is deafening to her now.

You are demonstrating your strength.


----------



## Shamwow

She doesn't know if she has it yet. All steeled up get the ball rolling tomorrow, don't wanna have to rethink the whole d*mn thing again.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> She doesn't know if she has it yet. All steeled up get the ball rolling tomorrow, don't wanna have to rethink the whole d*mn thing again.


Check with your lawyer, first thing in the morning. Then decide what to do.

I don't see the advantage of texting her anything. The only thing of value would be related to the D papers and that might be a mistake. Anything else makes you look weak. No matter how tough you try to be. Being dark is more powerful.

I mean you already told her you wanted her home. Why would anything else you say have value to her? After all you are not having any fun. Not trying to be mean, but if she does not stop home it is because she planned it this way.

Don't you find it odd that she only sends you this little text messages? Is she trying to call you at all? Has she left voice mail?


----------



## Shamwow

I guess the one "positive" here is that I knew she actually had a job possibility before she started texting me about it (from the email intercept). If there was no email and she had just started texting about some new job that would be starting right away...I'd be jumping all over that one calling B***S**T in a second.

That said, suppose I should be careful about jumping to conclusions at all, considering that's exactly how it would've played out...and I would've been wrong. See why this "circumstantial" thing in general is hard to nail down? What I'm I'm wrong about some of the other stuff too? Just making a point.

(and BOOM, lemme have it)


----------



## Halien

Entropy3000 said:


> I think he needs a lawyers advice on this one.


Just doesn't seem right that he is the one doing all the worrying. He should be working on moving to a healthier mindset, in my opinion. But I'm just going by the way it tended to work in my home state. Judges didn't take too kindly to keeping the wife or husand in the dark until the papers were served. I have a manual on divorce in my current state from when my wife and I were considering divorce, and the lawyer who wrote it recommended being equitable by having the spouse involved when moving items out of the house. It will possibly be construed as an attempt to gain an unequal edge in deciding the split. If contentions arise in the possible divorce, keeping her blind to what is happening while she is away just might be risky. I do agree that the lawyer should decide how to proceed, though.


----------



## 8yearscheating

OMG - Let's go hide in a cave and get rid of all electronics so the satellites can't find me. Friggen talk to her already.


----------



## the guy

How can you be wrong when you asked her to come home instead of going to "party city" with two guy b/c you werent fun enough?

Give it till Tue. she'll either come home or not, then think about what your next move is.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Oh and wrap yourself in foil so the evil rays can't get you. Man up and call her.


----------



## Chaparral

8yearscheating said:


> Oh and wrap yourself in foil so the evil rays can't get you. Man up and call her.


What could she possibly say? I need more money? Love you. SHE TOLD HIM HE COULD NOT COME AND PLAY WITH HER AND HER BOYFRIENDS. How could it be more clear. The only thing I don't like about no contact is she's so arrogant she probably just thinks he's pouting. If she wasn't low on funds I expect she would already have given him the bad news. Shamwow is just getting the jump on her.

Buck up Bucko your doing great and I do know how you feel.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Just doesn't seem right that he is the one doing all the worrying. He should be working on moving to a healthier mindset, in my opinion. But I'm just going by the way it tended to work in my home state. Judges didn't take too kindly to keeping the wife or husand in the dark until the papers were served. I have a manual on divorce in my current state from when my wife and I were considering divorce, and the lawyer who wrote it recommended being equitable by having the spouse involved when moving items out of the house. It will possibly be construed as an attempt to gain an unequal edge in deciding the split. If contentions arise in the possible divorce, keeping her blind to what is happening while she is away just might be risky. I do agree that the lawyer should decide how to proceed, though.


You are right. We agree. I think he should tell his lawyer he needs to confront her. I have no idea if it is a good idea to "tip his hand". I am not savvy in these things. His lawyer could say that he should not tell her the papers are waiting. That is what I would want to say. 

"I'm done ... papers are on the table, have a good life, good bye"


----------



## WorldsApart

Shamwow- You should be able to setup your mail server to forward you everything she's sending outbound, as it's damn near impossible to directly send from a mail client to the destination mail server.


----------



## Almostrecovered

If the lawyer gives the ok then definitely contact the OM's wife since she will be in town, might as well give her the chance to catch them in the act


Also down the line you may consider contacting the OM's work to inform them what he's been doing on their dime
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Entropy3000 said:


> You are right. We agree. I think he should tell his lawyer he needs to confront her. I have no idea if it is a good idea to "tip his hand". I am not savvy in these things. His lawyer could say that he should not tell her the papers are waiting. That is what I would want to say.
> 
> "I'm done ... papers are on the table, have a good life, good bye"


You got my vote. 

I just can't figure out if I would take both wedding rings (so she couldn't pretend and put hers back on, or if I would leave them both on the divorce papers.


----------



## Shamwow

WorldsApart said:


> Shamwow- You should be able to setup your mail server to forward you everything she's sending outbound, as it's damn near impossible to directly send from a mail client to the destination mail server.


Thanks, just checked on this...I'd have to get at her computer and change it to an IMAP setup, instead of POP. Can't do it from afar. (at least that's what the tech support guy told me...I'm no network expert)


----------



## Halien

Entropy3000 said:


> You are right. We agree. I think he should tell his lawyer he needs to confront her. I have no idea if it is a good idea to "tip his hand". I am not savvy in these things. His lawyer could say that he should not tell her the papers are waiting. That is what I would want to say.
> 
> "I'm done ... papers are on the table, have a good life, good bye"


What I was getting at by contacting her is that the 180 usually works if she knows that the person is avoiding her. Based on their history, she probably assumes that he is just in a minor mood.


----------



## Chaparral

SW

Just so you know. Even though some of the posts can sound snarky, hurtful even mean, I'm sure no one here means it like that. I can only speak for myself but I think we all are just extremely affected by the injustice and inhumanity of your situation. The feelings that take place under these circumstances are among the very worst a person can experience. Fortunately they eventually go away as time wears them down. If there was any thing we could do for you we would. If the wayward spouses knew what they put their loved ones through none of this kind of thing would ever happen. But people just don't think they just leap. The worse part is they just can't take it back.

Praying for you


----------



## tacoma

Damn!

I`ve been riveted to this thread for over an hour now!

Shamwow I have no advice because it doesn`t look like you need it.
You`re my new hero man.

Don`t falter, it isn`t gonna go down the in any predictable way if the history of the past few days is any indication.

I agree with staying dark and the only trace of you she finds when she gets home are D-Papers on the table with your wedding band used as a paperweight.

Stay strong!

Oh 8years,please keep posting to this thread.
It needs a bit of comic relief.


----------



## morituri

I can just picture her coming home with gifts for ShamWow to apease him and to show him how much she was thinking of him. And then she walks in through the door to find the papers on the table with a note from ShamWow "Enjoy yourself being officially single again. You've earned it"


----------



## 8yearscheating

Personally, don't burn the bridge until you've crossed it and talked to her. This going black crap is deceiptful. Starts a game of one upwomanship.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> What I was getting at by contacting her is that the 180 usually works if she knows that the person is avoiding her. Based on their history, she probably assumes that he is just in a minor mood.


Ah! Ok very good. I am showing my ignorance big time here. I get it. That makes sense.


----------



## Chaparral

Halien said:


> What I was getting at by contacting her is that the 180 usually works if she knows that the person is avoiding her. Based on their history, she probably assumes that he is just in a minor mood.


I agree. I'm really confused as to whether she gets it or if she just thinks he's pouting. I might send a message considering her new job offer. Something along the lines of......

Well if you ever do make it home , divorce papers are on the table.


----------



## 8yearscheating

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm of the do no harm side. Spiteful, harmful actions start a war where no one wins. Even this does go to D, your lawyer can give you all kinds of great go get her advice. You get in front of judge and all he sees are two bickering lawyers and spouses so he sticks the law exactly and neither of you win. If it doesn't go to D and you have a change of heart, a lot of damage is done that cannot be undone. Taking the high road means not playing the game, being honest and direct.


----------



## Shamwow

Halien said:


> What I was getting at by contacting her is that the 180 usually works if she knows that the person is avoiding her. Based on their history, she probably assumes that he is just in a minor mood.


This is a good point. It would be different if I left, she knew that I left, and then I still avoided her. That would be "on purpose". Right now she may assume I'm just being pissy cause she went to Vegas anyway, and trying to be aloof. As opposed to actually being aloof. She may even think it's funny. ("He thinks he's gonna get me worried...he'll be there smiling when I get back")

It would also be different if she knew about all of the evidence that I've seen pile up the last week or two. Like that I knew D-Bag was traveling with her last week. Or that I've seen things in her email (like links to porn sent from him and a note to him saying "she really digs him and cares about him, and when his name pops up on her phone she smiles...and hopes that he isn't just texting with her because he's chatty, but because he really does enjoy her company."), or that she texts with him til 2am most nights and first thing most mornings. Sometimes for hours. (didn't know the full extent of that until checking phone bill last week...she's a chronic texter anyway, but didn't know it was mostly him). 

Not talking about tomorrow, but if she is somehow affected by me serving her papers (20/80 chance?) eventually she'll come asking wtf. And deny everything. I have no pics or video, or even corroboration from a friend of hers on the road. (Though, if I come back to grab some stuff or something I may be able to switch her email to IMAP, but at that point, why would I be snooping anymore?) How do you stay strong when they start twisting your words around? If this forum thinks there's circumstantial elements to a lot of this (except for flat out going to Vegas with two guys after I caught her lying about it, confronted her, and told her not to do it for obvious reasons), she will poke holes bigger than the Sahara in anything I have to say. I mean, this guy HAS worked with her before, and may know some of the people on her team this last week, and she will say he was out to hang with the 'ol gang'. Of course, she did tell me he wouldn't be there....Which is why I suppose there's no need to tell her what I know...just that I know. And that even if I didn't know anything more than the Vegas thing (and the lingerie, waxing, etc) that the way she treated me when confronted with that was unacceptable in itself.

Guess I'm answering my own questions here.

Just got tomorrow on the brain, and I'm starting to play out how things could go right, and how they could go wrong, and how to deal with it as it comes at me.

Off to the bar for an hour or two with a buddy. (no worries, not gonna go overboard...big day tomorrow.)


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Personally, don't burn the bridge until you've crossed it and talked to her. This going black crap is deceiptful. Starts a game of one upwomanship.


8,

Gee Whiiiizzzzzzz 


But how does this breach of etiquette compare with what she is doing? Sure I like the high road. All he is doing is refusing to have her manipulate him further. He wanted her to come home. She refused. She went dark on him with two guys in Vegas. She is the one who keeps leaving and does not want to be around him. And HE is being deceitful!? She is probably having trouble walking right now. Really.

So he should sit home and be available to her as she tells him of her exploits on the road? Seriously?

She is preparing for another trip to where the OM lives.

Don't burn the bridge .... When a bridge becomes so hazardous to ones health I say ... blow that bridge up before someone gets hurt bad.

This reminds me of Operation Market Garden ... Known as ... A Bridge Too Far.


----------



## Shamwow

8yearscheating said:


> If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm of the do no harm side. Spiteful, harmful actions start a war where no one wins. Even this does go to D, your lawyer can give you all kinds of great go get her advice. You get in front of judge and all he sees are two bickering lawyers and spouses so he sticks the law exactly and neither of you win. If it doesn't go to D and you have a change of heart, a lot of damage is done that cannot be undone. Taking the high road means not playing the game, being honest and direct.


I do hear you 8years. And that's the way I've usually acted with her when she is doing something hurtful to me (even minor slights)...I tended to avoid the fight or making her sweat.

Unfortunately, you see where it got me. She thinks I have no boundaries that can't be crossed. I do.


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> I agree. I'm really confused as to whether she gets it or if she just thinks he's pouting. I might send a message considering her new job offer. Something along the lines of......
> 
> Well if you ever do make it home , divorce papers are on the table.


I do like this. 

If she is not coming back for a while, he does have to tell her he is leaving. He is going to have to do something with the dog(s). He can't leave the dog and find out she did not come home.

So to me the perfect timing is to check with the lawyer, get advice on how to notify her, do it, move on. The lawyer may say an actual phone call is better. At any rate I think he should let the lawyer know what he is doing.

But I am in full agreement that she needs to know what is up. It can't linger on.

Does he leave if she is going to be gone for a number of weeks?


----------



## Shamwow

Looks like she didn't get the job (email int). Now let's see if she tells me she got it, or comes home tomorrow. Hmmm...


----------



## morituri

Your wife's words and subsequent deeds were the declaration of war and the start of hostilities. You did not ask for this war but sometimes war is thrust upon us whether we want it or not. You either fight or you die.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Oh and my snarkyness is for the folks who think you need to play games like hide and seek to be the only adult in this situation. Where do the games end?


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Not talking about tomorrow, but if she is somehow affected by me serving her papers (20/80 chance?) eventually she'll come asking wtf. And deny everything. I have no pics or video, or even corroboration from a friend of hers on the road. (Though, if I come back to grab some stuff or something I may be able to switch her email to IMAP, but at that point, why would I be snooping anymore?) How do you stay strong when they start twisting your words around? If this forum thinks there's circumstantial elements to a lot of this (except for flat out going to Vegas with two guys after I caught her lying about it, confronted her, and told her not to do it for obvious reasons), she will poke holes bigger than the Sahara in anything I have to say. I mean, this guy HAS worked with her before, and may know some of the people on her team this last week, and she will say he was out to hang with the 'ol gang'. Of course, she did tell me he wouldn't be there....Which is why I suppose there's no need to tell her what I know...just that I know. And that even if I didn't know anything more than the Vegas thing (and the lingerie, waxing, etc) that the way she treated me when confronted with that was unacceptable in itself.


Sham, you don't have to convince her of anything. There is nothing for her to take apart. Simply put, you've had enough. Her trying to prove that she didn't cheat does nothing to get another chance. What does, and you should insist on this, is to tell her that you will only listen to her plans for a dramatic change and how she will provide evidence. Don't even take the bait. Just tell her that what is done is done, and the only words that will undo it are repairing words.

8 years is right in many points, in my opinion. You can be done with the status quo, and now you hold the consequences in your hand from the lawyer. Let her determine when the papers are filed, if ever, by her willingness to fix the real issue, which is much more than just this trip.


----------



## WorldsApart

8yearscheating said:


> ... Starts a game of one upwomanship.





8yearscheating said:


> Oh and my snarkyness is for the folks who think you need to play games like hide and seek to be the only adult in this situation. Where do the games end?


Correct, SHE started the game, and now that it's afoot, there's no reason for Shamwow to pay her any more respect that she's shown him.


----------



## Whip Morgan

If this bridge talk is to continue, let's state the obvious. Sham has no marital bridge to burn - his wife wiped that bridge out in a hurricane of lies and deception. I do think 8 has a good point concerning how lawyers and a judge could view this. Composure is key, heading into the moments this all comes to th surface. Sham, disloyal spouses seem to live in a fantasy world where they can justify anything, so definitely be prepared for denial. Just keep email printouts and text records and whatever else you have already. Stay calm when you bring it alll up, try not to get works up. I can't offer much more advice than that concerning exposure, other than say what you know and you want to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating

Market Garden was utter failure because Monty did not know the disposition of enemy(lack of full knowledge), did not have contingency plans and alternate route for the main attack that were to back up the paratroopers (assumed one outcome - his) and did not take alternate action when he should have known he was sending his paratroopers in to be slaughtered - last minute knowledge and thinking his main body could catch up when they were stopped. A failure for sticking religously to one plan. Are you trying to draw parallels for me? The toughest general Patton knew he was headed for disaster. Some of George Patton's Quotes:

Always do everything you ask of those you command.

Better to fight for something than live for nothing. 

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results. 

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. 

Take calculated risks. That is quite different from being rash.

The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That's the time to listen to every fear you can imagine! When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead! 

For in war just as in loving you must keep on shoving
Or you'll never get your reward.

Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.

Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.

My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either.


----------



## morituri

> Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.


He wins his self respect for being true to his convictions.


----------



## nada

morituri said:


> He wins his self respect for being true to his convictions.


:iagree:
:smthumbup:


----------



## WorldsApart

"Come on you sons of *****es! Do you want to live forever?" Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." Marine Lt. General Chesty Puller

What do random military quotes have to do with this situation?


----------



## Halien

morituri said:


> He wins his self respect for being true to his convictions.


Exactly. Whatever he chooses, I just hope that it is what he decides on his own terms. Not hers.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Did it come from bridges? I do enjoy a good discussion of military history. However, back to Sham. He is not locked into a D; if the 2x4 she is about to get hit with wakes her up, R could be possible. That 2x4 is Sham standing up for himself, having recognized that his wife is acting inappropriately and incredibly disrespectful. Also; she is cheating. I'm still betting a paycheck on that. Sham's 2x4 in this case is his self respect, belief in the value of marriage, refusal to slip into denial and ability to take action. Which takes inner strength to accomplish while on the rollercoaster that this nightmare is. Playin the hand that his wife dealt him.

Who knows what will happen in the future. She could wake up and realize what she is throwing away. Some people may not think so, but I think it might be possible. Of everyone here, 8yr's story of R shows it can work. But both people have to want it. Right now Sham doesn't want an unfaithful lying wife and all she wants is to party it up as a single woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Market Garden was utter failure because Monty did not know the disposition of enemy(lack of full knowledge), did not have contingency plans and alternate route for the main attack that were to back up the paratroopers (assumed one outcome - his) and did not take alternate action when he should have known he was sending his paratroopers in to be slaughtered - last minute knowledge and thinking his main body could catch up when they were stopped. A failure for sticking religously to one plan. *Are you trying to draw parallels for me?* The toughest general Patton knew he was headed for disaster. Some of George Patton's Quotes:
> 
> Always do everything you ask of those you command.
> 
> Better to fight for something than live for nothing.
> 
> Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.
> 
> If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
> 
> Take calculated risks. That is quite different from being rash.
> 
> The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That's the time to listen to every fear you can imagine! When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead!
> 
> For in war just as in loving you must keep on shoving
> Or you'll never get your reward.
> 
> Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.
> 
> Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.
> 
> My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either.


I just brought this up. I think you can see the paralells sir. Well done. 

I always bring this up when things get like this. It seems to fit most fiascos.

I have been known to suggest to a project manager or two the what they were asking for was a bridge too far ... Then I send to the wikipedia explanation of this. There is great wisdom here of course. But it is open to interpretation as well.

I think what you have can be applied here.


----------



## Entropy3000

WorldsApart said:


> "Come on you sons of *****es! Do you want to live forever?" Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly
> 
> "All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." Marine Lt. General Chesty Puller
> 
> What do random military quotes have to do with this situation?


Everything. He is in the battle of his life. This battle is worth fighting.

[email protected] the torpedoes full speed ahead.

Next up .... The Charge of The Light Brigade.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Did it come from bridges? I do enjoy a good discussion of military history. However, back to Sham. He is not locked into a D; if the 2x4 she is about to get hit with wakes her up, R could be possible. That 2x4 is Sham standing up for himself, having recognized that his wife is acting inappropriately and incredibly disrespectful. Also; she is cheating. I'm still betting a paycheck on that. Sham's 2x4 in this case is his self respect, belief in the value of marriage, refusal to slip into denial and ability to take action. Which takes inner strength to accomplish while on the rollercoaster that this nightmare is. Playin the hand that his wife dealt him.
> 
> Who knows what will happen in the future. She could wake up and realize what she is throwing away. Some people may not think so, but I think it might be possible. Of everyone here, 8yr's story of R shows it can work. But both people have to want it. Right now Sham doesn't want an unfaithful lying wife and all she wants is to party it up as a single woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## librarydragon

Hang tough, Shamwow. Stay the course. You slipped when you talked to her, but you're back on track. 

You do have a boatload of circumstantial evidence, but if she chooses to start denying and lying, trying to turn the tables, schedule a polygraph. If she can pass a poly, then you might have something to talk about regarding the future of your marriage.

Shamwow, you do know that a wife who cares about and loves her husband would NEVER plan a trip to Vegas with two other men...and LIE about it? The work travel is already a fatal wound to your marriage. Why on earth would she need to schedule MORE travel away from you? You have nothing to talk about until she admits the truth and shows remorse. I'm not saying you should never talk to her, but listening to more of her lies is just abusive. 

Let her stew in her own mess for a while. She knows what she's doing is wrong. She's just hoping to convince you otherwise, because if you believe it, then maybe she can believe the same. DO NOT be home when she returns tomorrow. Go dark until at least the weekend.


----------



## morituri

ShamWow. Here's something that might be of interest

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.



> _*Just Let Them Go*
> 
> The end result?
> 
> The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
> let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.
> 
> That is the end result.
> 
> The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.
> 
> Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.
> 
> Nothing else works better or quicker.
> 
> Let them go.
> 
> Agree with them and their feelings,
> "you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"
> 
> Wouldn't that be true love?
> 
> If you really loved your spouse,
> and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
> wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?
> 
> Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
> Just let them go. Give them their freedom.
> 
> You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.
> 
> I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.
> 
> But cheating, no excuses.
> 
> Think about cheating.
> A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?
> 
> Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.
> 
> Fighting the affair? For what reason?
> To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
> What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
> They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.
> 
> And for your last point,
> The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.
> 
> "Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."
> 
> You give them what they want.
> You don't fight them on this issue.
> You agree with their feelings,
> they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.
> 
> You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.
> 
> You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
> you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
> you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"
> 
> I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.
> 
> You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.
> 
> Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them._


----------



## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> , you do know that a wife who cares about and loves her husband would NEVER plan a trip to Vegas with two other men...and LIE about it?


Can I use this or do you have it copyrighted?

Was stewing over what to put on the note w/the papers. 741st draft:




____,


I know what’s been going on.

A wife who loves and cares about her husband does not plan trips with other men…and lie about it. And we both know there’s so much more that you haven’t told me.

If that is marriage to you, I have no choice but to move on. Go live the single life and enjoy.

- ________


----------



## Dadof3

:iagree::smthumbup:

What a nice and succinct way of putting it.

So sad, but effectively conveys what it needs. 

God bless, SW


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Can I use this or do you have it copyrighted?
> 
> Was stewing over what to put on the note w/the papers. 741st draft:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____,
> 
> 
> I know what’s been going on.
> 
> A wife who loves and cares about her husband does not plan trips with other men…and lie about it. And we both know there’s so much more that you haven’t told me.
> 
> If that is marriage to you, I have no choice but to move on. Go live the single life and enjoy.
> 
> - ________


What is good is that you have not revealed anything she has not told you her self.

Like the OM in the next hotel on her trip.


----------



## Shamwow

Just noticed she texted my buddy for like 20 minutes tonight (gotta stop checking this s**t, seriously), the one who stayed here the other night (guy that introduced us back in the day). I swear I said nothing to him about this mess when we went out that night, but I'm wondering if he sensed something. Ahhh, paranoia.

I guess I was a little aggressive in general, but I've been working out hard for 7 weeks straight, my testosterone is prob through the roof, and he's a workout nut so we talked about that. He travels all the time for work too. Maybe he got some unhappiness from me in our conversation. I really think I was in control. Dammit.

Well, if he did, rock on. She can sweat about it. Her turn. But I swear I said nothing.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Just noticed she texted my buddy for like 20 minutes tonight (gotta stop checking this s**t, seriously), the one who stayed here the other night (guy that introduced us back in the day). I swear I said nothing to him about this mess when we went out that night, but I'm wondering if he sensed something. Ahhh, paranoia.
> 
> I guess I was a little aggressive in general, but I've been working out hard for 7 weeks straight, my testosterone is prob through the roof. He travels all the time for work too. Maybe he got some unhappiness from me in our conversation. Dammit.
> 
> Well, if he did, rock on. She can sweat about it. Her turn. But I swear I said nothing.



Dont overthink this (if possible). 

I think she's starting to get concerned(?) because you have not responded to her for a while. He's a common friend for you both, so she's probing.


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> Dont overthink this (if possible).



Sorry, that's what I do now.


----------



## Dadof3

Curious - what type of interaction did you have with him - that may have allowed him to pick up your dissatisfaction? from what you know of him - would he just blow it off?

I think anyone with a traveling lifestyle would know if a significant others' discomfort with a traveling spouse - unless they really don't care.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Just noticed she texted my buddy for like 20 minutes tonight (gotta stop checking this s**t, seriously), the one who stayed here the other night (guy that introduced us back in the day). I swear I said nothing to him about this mess when we went out that night, but I'm wondering if he sensed something. Ahhh, paranoia.
> 
> I guess I was a little aggressive in general, but I've been working out hard for 7 weeks straight, my testosterone is prob through the roof, and he's a workout nut so we talked about that. He travels all the time for work too. Maybe he got some unhappiness from me in our conversation. I really think I was in control. Dammit.
> 
> Well, if he did, rock on. She can sweat about it. Her turn. But I swear I said nothing.


I was thinking that she should contact someone local to drive by and see if you are still there.

Maybe she needs a ride home from the airport.

Could she have had something going with this guy at any time?

I expext him to check on you first thing in the morning. He will report back to her. She may be filling him with a story. He may show up when she gets home. She may want to see if you are angry and is a little afraid now. She may have had him spying on you right along.

Hey did he stay overnight at your place? If so maybe he reteived something for her. Or found evidence that you know what she is up to. 

Maybe she is setting up to stay at his place .. just in case.

So did she text you about not going on the next gig yet?


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> Curious - what type of interaction did you have with him - that may have allowed him to pick up your dissatisfaction? from what you know of him - would he just blow it off?
> 
> I think anyone with a traveling lifestyle would know if a significant others' discomfort with a traveling spouse - unless they really don't care.


He was in town on work, came over, he commented on how I look like a whole different person from when he last saw me (weight), we went out for a sandwich and a couple beers. He started talking about being away from his wife and kids so much lately for work, I responded with saying yeah, it can get to be kinda hard if it goes on too long. Have to have a plan in place to take some time off, etc.

He said it must be hard with her out of town so much lately, I said, well of course, yeah. I'd love for her to take a few months off and relax...forget about the next job, let me pay the bills while she unwinds, you know? (snowjob considering the last few weeks/months, of course, but the sentiment was true nonetheless)

I did get a bit irritable for a moment when some guy pushed me to get by at the bar. I mean pushed me, and they didn't even look or excuse themselves. I kinda looked over my shoulder at him and said, "Guess I was in your way, huh" (out of character for me). I told my buddy, jokingly, man that guy needs a good a**-kicking, huh? (I haven't been in a fight since the 5th grade) I had previously told him how I'd taken up boxing a few weeks ago, it was fun to let out some aggression from the fitness side of things. I was "joking" but looking back I really found it fun to entertain the idea of causing some s**t. Wouldn't have acually done anything like that, but maybe he was surprised to see me out of character in that moment?

Dunno, maybe that was obvious. Didn't seem like it at the time. Was really trying to be careful and have fun. I think as a friend I'm closer to him now than she is (we work together on freelance jobs and hang out every month or so when he's in town...and she's usually gone lately). But they have known each other since they were kids, hard to trump that.

Whatever...really not worth thinking about.


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> I was thinking that she should contact someone local to drive by and see if you are still there.
> 
> Maybe she needs a ride home from the airport.
> 
> Could she have had something going with this guy at any time?
> 
> I expext him to check on you first thing in the morning. He will report back to her. She may be filling him with a story. He may show up when she gets home. She may want to see if you are angry and is a little afraid now. She may have had him spying on you right along.
> 
> Hey did he stay overnight at your place? If so maybe he reteived something for her. Or found evidence that you know what she is up to.
> 
> Maybe she is setting up to stay at his place .. just in case.
> 
> So did she text you about not going on the next gig yet?



Is it possible she set him up to drop by as recon? I guess. Doubtful. And honestly, I ran CCLeaner before he showed up, killed all my history and cookies, temps, etc. Not because I don't trust him, but just in case he needed to check his email or something on my machine, didn't want TAM, my divorce lawyer, etc, coming up in the search bar or whatever to pique his curiousity for any reason. Like I said, only TWO people know about this, (besides the multitude of you guys that is).

They never had a relationship that I know of. If they did it would've been in 7th grade.

He lives about 3 hours from here, so she wouldn't call him for an easy drop-by or airport pickup. He was in town on work. He's a computer/networking guy though. He knows more about my rig than I do. And I built the thing. And he slept on the couch downstairs (next door to my office) while I was in the BR upstairs.

Damn you guys are making me suspicious.

Come on, she's not pulling some "Sum Of All Fears" hacking episode here...she prob just texted him from Vegas because we've all been there together before.

Whatever. If he calls tomorrow I'll go dark on him too. At least for a few days.

Sure glad I kept my mouth shut though.


----------



## Shamwow

Oh, and she did text to say next gig was looking "iffy".


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Hey did he stay overnight at your place? If so maybe he reteived something for her. Or found evidence that you know what she is up to.


And I have consistenly deleted emails from my account regarding lawayer, PI, etc. I have a folder with copies in my docs, cryptically named (within a couple other folders). Seriously, I've gone undercover in preparation for her return.


----------



## librarydragon

Hmmm...her communication with him is definitely odd. Even with my suspicious mind, I can't think of a reason for it given what you've said. You said they texted for 20 minutes. Who sent the first text?


----------



## Wonder66

-hi shamwow

First congratulation for bcome the strong man by treating yourself with respect by NOT allowing this bull**** to continue.

How is PI, has he gqthered infos?


----------



## Stonewall

Remeber stay dark.

Sun Tzu says

Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Can I use this or do you have it copyrighted?
> 
> Was stewing over what to put on the note w/the papers. 741st draft:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____,
> 
> 
> I know what’s been going on.
> 
> A wife who loves and cares about her husband does not plan trips with other men…and lie about it. And we both know there’s so much more that you haven’t told me.
> 
> If that is marriage to you, I have no choice but to move on. Go live the single life and enjoy.
> 
> - ________


Sham, In my opinion, you might be setting this up to just be an argument about THIS trip. I suggest considering something about the dysfunctional relationship in general:


I know what’s been going on.

A wife who loves and cares about her husband does not plan trips with other men…and lie about it. And we both know there’s so much more that you haven’t told me. That said, I don't want you to mistakenly believe that this is just about your most recent trip. You have clearly sent the message that I am not your priority in life, and I will only merit your participation if I am more fun than the other men in your life.

If that is marriage to you, I have no choice but to move on. Go live the single life and enjoy.


----------



## morituri

May I give it a shot?

* "A wife who does not respect her husband cannot love her husband. You have clearly sent the message that you do not respect me by planning trips with other men, lying about it and when I found out, you still proceeded with your plans as though nothing happened. 

You may not respect me but I do respect myself, enough that I have made the decision to end the mockery that our marriage has become. Goodbye"*


----------



## 8yearscheating

Why letters? Talk!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> He was in town on work, came over, he commented on how I look like a whole different person from when he last saw me (weight), we went out for a sandwich and a couple beers. He started talking about being away from his wife and kids so much lately for work, I responded with saying yeah, it can get to be kinda hard if it goes on too long. Have to have a plan in place to take some time off, etc.
> 
> He said it must be hard with her out of town so much lately, I said, well of course, yeah. I'd love for her to take a few months off and relax...forget about the next job, let me pay the bills while she unwinds, you know? (snowjob considering the last few weeks/months, of course, but the sentiment was true nonetheless)
> 
> I did get a bit irritable for a moment when some guy pushed me to get by at the bar. I mean pushed me, and they didn't even look or excuse themselves. I kinda looked over my shoulder at him and said, "Guess I was in your way, huh" (out of character for me). I told my buddy, jokingly, man that guy needs a good a**-kicking, huh? (I haven't been in a fight since the 5th grade) I had previously told him how I'd taken up boxing a few weeks ago, it was fun to let out some aggression from the fitness side of things. I was "joking" but looking back I really found it fun to entertain the idea of causing some s**t. Wouldn't have acually done anything like that, but maybe he was surprised to see me out of character in that moment?
> 
> Dunno, maybe that was obvious. Didn't seem like it at the time. Was really trying to be careful and have fun. I think as a friend I'm closer to him now than she is (we work together on freelance jobs and hang out every month or so when he's in town...and she's usually gone lately). But they have known each other since they were kids, hard to trump that.
> 
> Whatever...really not worth thinking about.


Man, you're handling this well. I hope you can keep up your strength when the excrement strikes the impeller blade today. Don't make so big a deal about the reveal that it trumps actually holding yourself together. For example, if she already knows or if she finds out early, or if you have to spring it over the phone for some reason, don't lose your resolve.

There is no way to predict what is about to happen today. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.


----------



## morituri

8yearscheating said:


> Why letters? Talk!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A letter forces the reader to digest the message and bypassing the content filters that are active when the other person is present.

She was given a chance to choose her husband or her fun with other men, she chose the latter. That speaks louder than any words she can express via 'talking'.

Besides what could she possibly say that could justify her behavior and be given a 2nd, 3rd,.... chance?


----------



## Scottt

Shamwow said:


> Was stewing over what to put on the note w/the papers. 741st draft:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____,
> 
> 
> I know what’s been going on.
> 
> A wife who loves and cares about her husband does not plan trips with other men…and lie about it. And we both know there’s so much more that you haven’t told me.
> 
> If that is marriage to you, I have no choice but to move on. Go live the single life and enjoy.
> 
> - ________


I wonder if it might be better for you if you were to send your wife this message before she changes her plans yet again. We on TAM all know what you're thinking at this point, but I doubt she does. I can picture her going off to the OM's city for another week or two and still expecting to return home and find the dogs well fed and you waiting to drive her home from the airport. If you do send the message, though, I'd add another line to the last paragraph: Between the first and second sentences, something like "Divorce papers will be on the table when you return to the house" might get the point across. At least then you won't have to spend the next few days wondering if she's figured out what you're up to yet.

It's hard for me to make sense out of how your wife views you or your marriage. You guys don't have kids yet, so at least she hasn't started seeing you as the nanny. But at this point, she probably sees you as somewhere between the house sitter and her personal assistant. In other words, you're not the guy she'd plan a getaway weekend in Las Vegas with; you're the guy who's supposed to keep things running smoothly at home so she can go. And you've probably picked up on this weeks or months ago, on some level, which should explain why you're "not fun" anymore. It's truly mind-boggling that your wife hasn't figured that one out. I'm sorry for you that you're going through this.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Why letters? Talk!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm curious to know why you insist on SW calling his wife and interrupting her sexcapades. Do you think there is an innocent reason that a wife would go out of town with other men, lie about it to her husband, groom her hair and naughty bits, and take lingerie? Do you think that his wife is more valuable than he is, and thus deserves more respect than she has been willing to show him? Do you think that SW should beg for his marriage? Do you think that, if she knows that he knows, she would feel differently about screwing other men or betraying him? Do you think it is acceptable if your wife avoids screwing other men only because she knows that you know her plans?

If SW wanted to reconcile, then I think that trying to cut the affair short may be a valid strategy. I suppose trying to forgive an affair of N-1 weeks is easier than trying to forgive an affair of N weeks. Given that he has said that any infidelity would mean divorce, and she obviously crossed that bridge before he even knew enough to confront her, he is proceeding with divorce.

To those who think the judge will look harshly on secretive actions, give me a break. SW found out his wife was unfaithful a few days ago, while she was out of town. He's not spending weeks or months planning an October surprise. He's not moving things while she's gone to work or to the store, like a thief in the night. If his wife was home, instead of partying with her boyfriends, she would be privy to the divorce. He's not stealing property that is obviously hers. He's not vandalizing her property or broadcasting negative information (it's not slander if it's true) about her to friends or clients. He's acting reasonably to protect his interests and minimize the damage his STBX is doing to him.


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> Was stewing over what to put on the note w/the papers. 741st draft:


As ManDup said, don't fret the actual note or text or words you use in the conversation as much as the state of mind you project when you see her.

You're worried about her arguing the facts of her trip. Don't let her. If she wants to tell you that there's an innocent reason she took brand new lingerie, that she said was for you, on a business trip with her "buddies", back off. Give her no resistance. Your response should be something along the lines of, "Fine. I'm wrong. But, I'm still divorcing you." With a smirk on your face.

Make yourself a little flow chart with her reactions and your reactions. But your reactions should all be pretty consistent.

Either she will be happy you are divorcing, or upset. If she's happy, you be happy too. If she tells you that the other man is a better lover or a better man than you are, just smirk and say, "Good for you."

If she's upset, there could be many reasons. She could genuinely love you, but be caught in the fog and only the divorce papers snap her out of her fantasy life and she is remorseful at losing you. She could genuinely love you, but wants to cuckold you. Maybe she doesn't love you, but she wants a roommate while she's out banging other men. Maybe she wants a divorce, but on her terms and schedule. In any case, simply keep it all business. Like you're returning a defective TV to WalMart. "I'm not interested in this. Take it back. I'm taking my business elsewhere."

Whether she argues, cries, screams, laughs, or stays silent, just stick to your game plan. "I know enough about what you've been doing to be finished with you. Goodbye."


----------



## Halien

PHTlump said:


> To those who think the judge will look harshly on secretive actions, give me a break. SW found out his wife was unfaithful a few days ago, while she was out of town. He's not spending weeks or months planning an October surprise. He's not moving things while she's gone to work or to the store, like a thief in the night. If his wife was home, instead of partying with her boyfriends, she would be privy to the divorce. He's not stealing property that is obviously hers. He's not vandalizing her property or broadcasting negative information (it's not slander if it's true) about her to friends or clients. He's acting reasonably to protect his interests and minimize the damage his STBX is doing to him.


I'll give you a break, but a judge may not. Office equipment is considered shared property in many states, unless it is owned by the employer. Moving it out of the home without the spouse's knowledge can be viewed harshly by judges in some states. My brother moved 'his' computer out of his home, but later had to pay his wife half price because she claimed that he stole 'their' computer in the middle of the night. In his case, simply telling her that he was taking his computer would have saved him money, because she was punishing him for moving out with no notice. I'm only urging caution, because none of us are lawyers. Typically, you can't connect her betrayal to a loss of joint ownership.

the relevant issue is that they have a joint account. With money going in and out of the account, many people cannot document who paid for common expensive items. Sham is self employed, so I would only take the items that were paid from by a business acount, with receipts if I didn't have my lawyers approval.


----------



## 8yearscheating

It's called laying the cards on the table. There have been NO direct statements he is all done and moving on. At this point she could still play the "I had no idea, he never said he was filing" card. "He indicated displeasure but not that he was so upset."

Besides that, why should he continue to hang on every message and what she is doing. Confront, lay it out, HEAR her reaction. If it isn't a complete turn around on her part then execute his plan. Move out and file. Personally all this thrashing around is destroying him and he needs to "get er done". The only way to do that is face to face.


----------



## nada

8yearscheating said:


> If it isn't a complete turn around on her part then execute his plan. Move out and file. Personally all this thrashing around is destroying him and he needs to "get er done". The only way to do that is face to face.


:iagree:

It is human to do damage control, thus I would guess that W would try to lie and use the tools she has used before to get away with whatever she does that SW disapproves of. From his description of her, I think she will allways behave like this - it is in her nature, just like DSK.

Rgds
Nada


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> It's called laying the cards on the table. There have been NO direct statements he is all done and moving on. At this point she could still play the "I had no idea, he never said he was filing" card. "He indicated displeasure but not that he was so upset."


Oh, come on. First of all, every wife on Earth knows that sex with another man automatically risks divorce (or worse in some countries). You would seriously buy the, "he never said that my screwing other guys would be a problem" defense? Second, SW said there was a long standing, explicit agreement that cheating meant divorce. And then he brought it up again last week. Do you think he should threaten divorce and then start counting like ineffective parents do at the grocery store?

_"I'll divorce you! I mean it! ONE! You'd better stop sleeping with that guy! TWO! I'm serious about this! TWO AND A HALF! ..."_

At this point, the decision to divorce has been made. Why does it matter if he tells his wife today or tomorrow that their marriage is over?



8yearscheating said:


> Besides that, why should he continue to hang on every message and what she is doing. Confront, lay it out, HEAR her reaction. If it isn't a complete turn around on her part then execute his plan. Move out and file. Personally all this thrashing around is destroying him and he needs to "get er done". The only way to do that is face to face.


I agree that he shouldn't be parsing every text for hidden meaning. He knows enough and has made his decision. But, it's understandable. This is a huge decision that will affect the rest of his life.

But you're wrong about face to face being the only way to inform his wife of the divorce. He can just as easily call, leave a note, or text her.


----------



## 8yearscheating

ANd Morituri - letters are for when you want the other person to honestly think before responding. In her case, why give her time to develop stories. Lay it out, watch the reaction (can't do that with a letter), don't give her time to consider what to do next. Stop the madness and running in circles , conjecture and guessing. If she doesn't come 90% clean (there will always be details left out in the heat of the moment) and come back in 24 hours with a postion, he can do as he has planned and he ahs slammed the door on any defense she may have in court later. He can also notify her precisely what he is moving so if there is any argument, he deal with it and not the police when she calls them.


----------



## tacoma

8yearscheating said:


> It's called laying the cards on the table. There have been NO direct statements he is all done and moving on. At this point she could still play the "I had no idea, he never said he was filing" card. "He indicated displeasure but not that he was so upset."


She waxed her body, did her hair, spent 15k on lingerie, left her wedding band home with reams of circumstantial evidence,maxed herself out financially, went to Vegas for two days with two men she`s relating to in very inappropriate ways AFTER SW told her he didn`t want her to and that if she cheated it`d be over.
I don`t think it matters what "card" she plays if he`s filing D.



> Besides that, why should he continue to hang on every message and what she is doing. Confront, lay it out, HEAR her reaction. If it isn't a complete turn around on her part then execute his plan. Move out and file.


Why bother hearing her reaction?
She`s lied, misled, and deceived far too often for her words to be of any value.



> Personally all this thrashing around is destroying him and he needs to "get er done". The only way to do that is face to face.


I don`t see why this needs to be done "face to face".
If his absence and the D-Papers truly shock her when she gets home she isn`t nearly as intelligent as this thread makes her out to be.
SW has clearly stated to her that it`s in the realm probability.

Packing, moving, leaving D-papers on the table does "git r done".
Pretty damn efficiently too.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Now Lump, did I say he should buy it or that it was a realistic rsponse. NO I didn't. Could she claim that realistically in front of judge, hell yes.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Take your Shamwow glasses off and look at this like a judge who has two whining attorneys in front of him throwing every piece of dirt and doubt they can.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Oh an add an Oscar winning performance by his wife with shaking shoulders and tears streaming saying "honest, I didn't know he felt this way"


----------



## Shamwow

Text this morning: "Can't wait to come home".


----------



## tacoma

8yearscheating said:


> Take your Shamwow glasses off and look at this like a judge who has two whining attorneys in front of him throwing every piece of dirt and doubt they can.


SW has a lawyer who is aware of what he`s doing and how he`s doing it.
I`m quite sure SW is following his lawyers advice.

Their financials are equivalent as far as income and savings so that`s an easy split.
No kids.

The only glitch is the house and SW is aware of and has been advised of his legal responsibilities on how to deal with it.

I don`t see a problem.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Oh and add the "fog" - Shamwow in in a compartmentalized room in her mind locked out sight and thought. The fog is so thick she can't see the door! Do you HONESTLY think she is even considering the consequences of her actions?


----------



## 8yearscheating

Her last text confirms it - she has NO clue.


----------



## Shamwow

Guys, I don't know what today will bring. I'm strong then I'm weak. I'm gone, then I'm confronting her face to face. I'm saying the word divorce right away, then I'm laying down a foundation first.

I slept like s**t last night and I have a list of things to do today (all related to this, not work or anything, so thank god for that at least).

I have an appt with the therapist today. Hopefully he can help ground me.

Butterflies...


----------



## 8yearscheating

tacoma if you think ANY lawyer can predict what will happen in court......... if they are worth a damn, they will list several possible outcomes and what the chances are of each and NEVER commit to one of them. If they simply want an open retainer they become salesmen not lawyers.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Take an Advil PM or two and sleep. You need to be rested and clear headed. Turn off the computer and go do it now.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Take your Shamwow glasses off and look at this like a judge who has two whining attorneys in front of him throwing every piece of dirt and doubt they can.


Sure. First, most judges aren't stupid. So, they won't buy the "I didn't know adultery was a problem" defense. And anyway, most states have no-fault divorce where you don't even have to cite a reason for the divorce.

As for assets, SW said earlier that everything was pretty cut and dried. Whether SW waited for his wife to get back from her adulterous trip to pack up his clothes should have absolutely no detrimental effect on a judgment.


----------



## Shamwow

8yearscheating said:


> Her last text confirms it - she has NO clue.


Tend to agree with you on this.

She did text a couple times this morning with my buddy (her old friend and my friend) that was here the other night. I have not heard from him though.

Her text to me was sent right after that. I think she could be scared.


----------



## 8yearscheating

You are forgetting one thing Lump and that is the judge decides division of assets and alimony. If it's bitter, you can bet her attorney will pull out ALL the stops.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Guys, I don't know what today will bring. I'm strong then I'm weak. I'm gone, then I'm confronting her face to face. I'm saying the word divorce right away, then I'm laying down a foundation first.
> 
> I slept like s**t last night and I have a list of things to do today (all related to this, not work or anything, so thank god for that at least).
> 
> I have an appt with the therapist today. Hopefully he can help ground me.
> 
> Butterflies...


Sham,

One voice among many.

I think it is highly likely that she knows that you will be very upset. She cried a couple of days ago, although you don't know the reason, but she cried to you. Then, the text this morning... If you see her in person, you'll probably get the buttering up treatment. Syrupy sweet, hoping you will just let it go. The fog has gone on so long, I believe, that she may not see this as much more than a few days of tension before you forgive her.

For this reason, I think that you should leave her a clear and concise note, and be somewhere else for a while. I have a lot of respect for 8 years, but I think she needs to see life in a radically new light, on her own. Let it soak in for a while, then talk to her briefly on the phone, sticking to your guns. tell her that you might be willing to speak again the next day, on a time you choose, but keep it distant. Then, you'll know if she wants to reconcile or take an exit plan with the guy friends.


----------



## Gabriel

After a week off from this forum, I checked and had to add something here.

So, for those invested in this thread, what are your predictions?

Here's mine. She has no clue Sham knows all that he knows, right? So really, she's about to be caught. She knows he knows about the trip that has two guys going (we still don't know if it was JUST her and the two guys, or if it's more of a group). She knows things havne't been going well and he has shown disapproval. She is likely hoping to rug sweep, come home, kiss and make up. She will likely try to do this and when Sham confronts with the lingerie, credit cards, wedding ring, emails, porn, next door hotel, etc, etc, etc, etc, (I mean my God there is so much here) she will be blindsided.

And that will be awesome. BUT, because it's a blindside, she will then get VERY defensive. Sounds like she is a strong woman. Strong women don't back down. She'll either deny/deflect/get angry, or she'll just yell at him for snopping around, like it's his fault.

That's my prediction.

Then, Shan will have two choices. Put his head down or his foot down. Head down is submissive, admitting to snooping, saying sorry, I should have respected your privacy, yada yada barf. Foot down is seeing this for what it is, a HUGE breach of marital vows, a total disregard for her husband, and tell her the marriage is over, you cheating WH*RE! Right?

Are there any other possible realistic paths here? Will she really be contrite and beg him for forgiveness and admit to anything? I just don't see that happening.

Others?


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> Man, you're handling this well. I hope you can keep up your strength when the excrement strikes the impeller blade today. Don't make so big a deal about the reveal that it trumps actually holding yourself together. For example, if she already knows or if she finds out early, or if you have to spring it over the phone for some reason, don't lose your resolve.
> 
> There is no way to predict what is about to happen today. *No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.*


Wow, that's the truth. :smthumbup:


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> You are forgetting one thing Lump and that is the judge decides division of assets and alimony. If it's bitter, you can bet her attorney will pull out ALL the stops.


First, it won't be bitter. It will be matter of fact. "You cheated. Here are the papers. Goodbye."

Second, what would the attorney argue?

"Your honor, my client's husband didn't beg her effectively enough to stop screwing a couple of guys on an out-of-town trip, so we request a more favorable division of assets."

"Your honor, while my client's husband did recently advise her that adultery would mean divorce, he never said that he knew she was engaged in an adulterous affair at that time, thus giving her an opportunity to lie or manipulate her way out of the conflict. So, we request a more favorable division of assets."

While it is possible that SW will get a misandrist judge, or simply one that is retarded enough to buy those lines of thinking, I think the more likely result (if the attorney's are stupid enough to argue anything close to this) is a chuckle by everyone in the court.


----------



## 8yearscheating

You are probably right Gabriel. The laying down of the cards needs to happen and then the best course would be to back off and go away for few days and let her digest and move from the defiant/oppositional stage. Keep the D card for later. Don't respond at ALL, just lay it out and tell her you'll be back in 3 days to talk about next steps. Stay calm and cool, just list what you know and what you believe. Don't negotiate, argue or discuss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Her last text confirms it - she has NO clue.


Or, she's just trying to manipulate him. Effective manipulation is about push/pull. I love you, but I need space. If she was completely cold to him, she knows she would have little chance of keeping him. So she has to be cold, but offer nice words or hope that after this rough patch, things will be great.


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## ManDup

Halien said:


> Sham,
> 
> One voice among many.
> 
> I think it is highly likely that she knows that you will be very upset. She cried a couple of days ago, although you don't know the reason, but she cried to you. Then, the text this morning... If you see her in person, you'll probably get the buttering up treatment. Syrupy sweet, hoping you will just let it go. The fog has gone on so long, I believe, that she may not see this as much more than a few days of tension before you forgive her.
> 
> For this reason, I think that you should leave her a clear and concise note, and be somewhere else for a while. I have a lot of respect for 8 years, but I think she needs to see life in a radically new light, on her own. Let it soak in for a while, then talk to her briefly on the phone, sticking to your guns. tell her that you might be willing to speak again the next day, on a time you choose, but keep it distant. Then, you'll know if she wants to reconcile or take an exit plan with the guy friends.


:iagree:
With the note and the absence, it will be hard to lose your resolve. If you lose your resolve this will take years to work out.


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## 8yearscheating

As Halien suggested
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Text from her:

"On my way soon. Unless you want to fly here???"


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## 8yearscheating

Lump done debating guesswork
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

I'd reply. No we are broke. See you soon
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

Gabriel said:


> Then, Shan will have two choices. Put his head down or his foot down. Head down is submissive, admitting to snooping, saying sorry, I should have respected your privacy, yada yada barf. Foot down is seeing this for what it is, a HUGE breach of marital vows, a total disregard for her husband, and tell her the marriage is over, you cheating WH*RE! Right?
> 
> Are there any other possible realistic paths here? Will she really be contrite and beg him for forgiveness and admit to anything? I just don't see that happening.
> 
> Others?


There is another option. He can refuse to engage. Indifference can be much more infuriating then anger. If she is meek, he can smirk and not accept it. If she rages and wants to fight, he can smirk and say, "You're not worth fighting for." Just hand her the papers and say, "See you in court."


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## 8yearscheating

Why throw gas on the fire?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

Unless you want to fly here? WTF is that?? Don't even respond. That is ridiculous. Talk about delaying things. Annoying.


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## Shamwow

Text:

"Actually it'd be nice to just be home. Rejected by yet another job. Ugh"


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## Saffron

Wow, this thread has my head spinning. I can't even imagine what's going through SW's head and that's saying a lot as a BS.

Given what's been described, I do think SW's wife is in a fog/denial of what is happening at home. Even when my H found out the OWH discovered the affair and was planning on telling me, my H did nothing. He looks back now and describes it as a feeling of helplessness, he was going to just "let the cards fall where they may". He didn't think about the OWH telling me face to face or how traumatic that experience would be. He also didn't have any comprehension that telling me himself might've made the experience slightly less traumatic. He was scared, so he did nothing. Plus, there was still a part of him that didn't believe d-day was really going to happen. Denial is powerful.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall SW actually saying to his wife "If you go to Vegas, we're done." Yes, they had the talk before she left, but she's believing whatever she wants to believe right now. I used to tell my H, "If you ever cheat, we're done." It's not the same context when a cheater hears it while they think they're getting away with it. It's too late, the line has already been crossed. So they're going to deny deny deny, to you and to themselves. The mind of cheater in an affair is thick with selfishness and cowardice. They're going to believe whatever they want to believe to justify their actions.

I'm guessing SW's wife has herself convinced that SW is either already out the door so what does it matter or has the "What he doesn't know won't hurt him" mentality. Either way, I think she's going to be shocked when she gets home. She's choosing not to acknowledge the reality waiting for her, although it should be clear.

I don't know if anything would've been different had SW said D papers would be waiting if she went to Vegas. She may have come home, she may have gone. However, if SW was planning on D regardless, I guess it doesn't really matter what her response would've been. D is inevitable, so she's letting the cards fall where they may and putting off the inevitable.

Regardless, stay strong SW. You've already tried to R in a previous relationship after infidelity, so you know your limits. If R doesn't work with my H, I'm pretty sure I would'nt give it another go with someone else either. Don't second guess yourself, do whatever is the best course of action for you. Protect your assests and talk to your lawyer regarding any action that may be held against you in court. You do not have children, so if you never want to see your wife again, it's a real possibility you can make it happen.


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## Gabriel

If you respond and say NO I don't want to fly there (such a stupid suggestion BTW), then that gives her fuel for saying she was trying to invite you to party. "Hey, I asked, you turned it down." Don't fall for it. Pretend you never got the text!!!


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## 8yearscheating

I repeat, I know you can hold it together. 

You are probably right Gabriel. The laying down of the cards needs to happen and then the best course would be to back off and go away for few days and let her digest and move from the defiant/oppositional stage. Keep the D card for later. Don't respond at ALL, just lay it out and tell her you'll be back in 3 days to talk about next steps. Stay calm and cool, just list what you know and what you believe. Don't negotiate, argue or discuss.
Posted via Mobile Device
[Edit] [Reply] [!!]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArabianKnight

ShamWow

do you have Evidence that she was physical ? or is it all based on assumption ?


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## 8yearscheating

I think you'll fond within 24 hours she wants to do whatever is required to reconcile. At that point you need to give it a week before commitiing to it and each day lay out a few of your must haves to try in order of priority. Not all at once. If she stays committed then you can agree to try if you want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

You are asking the same question we all have. It's just circumstantial. It looks extremely bad but there is no solid proof. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArabianKnight

May thats what in her head, have fun for a week, try different persons, then reconsile with husband therefore its win win


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## Almostrecovered

8yearscheating said:


> Keep the D card for later.



why?

he has no desire for reconciliation

none

if he desires R then I would be all for waiting and feeling her out, etc

talking to her will only generate more lies from her or actually cause a bigger problem (you want to talk about throwing gas on a fire, if he confronts her this may certainly result in some really bad stuff)

what will be gained by delaying the inevitable?

limbo is hell

Presenting D papers in the fashion he plans takes the nasty confrontation out of it, takes the emotions out of it and sends the ever so clear statement that "you cheated, I know you cheated, you know what would happen if you did and now it's happening and i can no longer be bothered by what you have to say about it."
and it's not like he will never speak to her again, of course he will, he will have to
and if he changes his mind about R then D proceedings can be stopped


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## 8yearscheating

Big assumption on the he's all done.


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## 8yearscheating

If that were the case, he would have filed and moved out already.


----------



## DanG

"Either way, I think she's going to be shocked when she gets home. She's choosing not to acknowledge the reality waiting for her, although it should be clear." - SHOULD be clear is the problem/ point. A) She is in a fog. B) She is taking a calculated risk that she will get away with this - based un her past REENFORCED experiences of having done so before. C) She is hot. D) She is spoiled. D) In her mind she does not have much to lose other than the POSSIBILITY that she is going to have to deal with a temporary inconvenience of a divorce from someone she is bored with. E) Even IF the current BF dumped her, so what? - she figures another will not be hard to find.

My wife and girl friends were trying to sell their husbands on a "girls trip to Vegas." A couple of their marriages were near over or over. The ringleader sounds a lot like SWs wife. It was not received well, but I shut it down - at least for my wife. We have a MOSTLY strong marriage (working on the low sex thing.) But, her just saying "I'm going anyway" would have been met with some strong repercussions in our relationship. Given that whole 10 WEEK! thing - "I'm changed" - the VS gear, and "I'm going anyway" - at the VERY LEAST, she can pick up the pieces - if - IF she wants to save the marriage. Let her get herself home to the 'half a marriage and home' - which she created. IMO giving her the opportunity to rebuild the entire thing would be more than 'fair.' BUT, it would be ENTIRELY on her to do whatever it takes - UNLESS SW is not telling us something.


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## ArabianKnight

If I knew my wife lied about she is hanging with in her trip and she mad plans with someone I dont like and adviced her before to no hang out with. I would divorce her. because she has more respect to the other guy than her own husband


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## Almostrecovered

8yearscheating said:


> Big assumption on the he's all done.
> 
> If that were the case, he would have filed and moved out already.


for starters he has moved out AND he started the proceedings of filing

AND he has said repeatedly that he does not wish to reconcile

are you even reading what he wrote or you just applying your experience on him?


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## Almostrecovered

8yearscheating said:


> You are asking the same question we all have. It's just circumstantial. It looks extremely bad but there is no solid proof.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would be a helluva story to make the circumstantial evidence say otherwise

a) she texts the OM wayyyy to much (EA proof right there)
b) she gets pornographic emails from OM (more EA proof and certainly an indicator of sexual intentions)
c) THE OM BOOKS A HOTEL ROOM RIGHT NEXT TO THE WIFE'S AT A TIME THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE THERE FOR WORK (I mean, seriously, this is a huge smoking gun)
d) Wife denies sex stating that "that's not what we're about" yet buys lingerie, gets her bush waxed, nails done and buys expensive clothes, NONE of which SW gets to see in action if the intent was for him. ALL of which was brought on trip and done at great expense with no regard to current financial situation.
e) Wife then plans to extend her trip to Vegas with OM and does NOT come home when it's made known that it is not acceptable NOR allows her husband to join her.
f) Wife hides all of these facts from OM unless uncovered and then spins it into "it's just clean fun"


really? no solid proof?

well no DNA stains, no dirty pics, no confession, no written proclamation of what was done

but please explain what could have possibly happened that isn't a PA in this scenario- because that's the very definition of beyond a reasonable doubt. No excuse that she could come up with is "reasonable" to think that a PA did NOT occur.


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## Almostrecovered

BTW- 8years, I think you often give excellent advice for those wanting to R, your opinion is valued by me although I don't always agree. I just think you're really off the mark here


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## Voiceofreason

Almostrecovered said:


> BTW- 8years, I think you often give excellent advice for those wanting to R, your opinion is valued by me although I don't always agree. I just think you're really off the mark here


:iagree: this horse has left the barn...


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## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> why?
> 
> he has no desire for reconciliation
> 
> none
> 
> if he desires R then I would be all for waiting and feeling her out, etc


I have stated this, yes. The difference is, *I* tried to fix it in that previous gf relationship, when SHE was the one who effed up. That killed my self-esteem for a year or two, seriously, once I realized what a loser I had acted like.

Deep down, I would love for reconciliation to be possible here. I know things would never be the same. I think the important thing for me right now is to not present that to her as a viable option for her to work with (and manipulate me with).

IF she truly sees the error in her ways and lays it all out on the table for me, and shows a massive commitment to wanting to regain my trust and our marriage, my heart would of course be breaking with hope. Last 2 months notwithstanding, I have treasured our marriage. That being the case, I'd need to tell her that I don't know what difference it could possibly make, but that if she wants to talk, I can at least promise to listen. If she doesn't, then I'm gone and she'll be hearing from my attorney.

Please don't assume this means I'm going back on my word of infidelity being an dealbreaker, guys. I do mean that. But I've also alluded many times in the thread to being hopeful that there may be a possible way through this s**tstorm back to good times in the future. With her? Don't know. Does she deserve it right now? No. As her husband and partner of 8 years, should I give her a chance to try if she really wants to? I think so. Just not now. And the onus would be on HER to make that happen. Not me, in any way, shape or form...until she worked her way to a point of deserving some concern from me again.


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## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> for starters he has moved out AND he started the proceedings of filing
> 
> AND he has said repeatedly that he does not wish to reconcile
> 
> are you even reading what he wrote or you just applying your experience on him?


I have moved out some of my stuff to storage, mostly things important to me that can't be recovered. My office gear is still here. I wouldn't be able to work easily in a hotel room anyway (and I do have a small mobile rig that will work in a pinch). Luckily, I have a slow week coming up. I have a place to stay tonight and for the next few as needed. After that I can get a short-lease apartment or stay at a hotel or whatever. She doesn't need to know where.

The rest of my things can be retrieved as necessary, and I have taken video of what is there, in case she destroys things or throws them away. She won't blow up my office. But she will go over every inch of it for details, just as I have done with hers.


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## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> but please explain what could have possibly happened that isn't a PA in this scenario- because that's the very definition of beyond a reasonable doubt. No excuse that she could come up with is "reasonable" to think that a PA did NOT occur.


True. But she will come up with something. And in a split second too.


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## aug

Her texts to you this morning and her texts to your common buddy most likely mean that she's trying to figure out what's going on. It seems to me that she might be concerned because she knew she broke the marriage.

I supposed that you have not answered any of her texts today or yesterday. She's trying to see if you will be picking her up this evening.

she's pinging you and getting no response?


----------



## seeking sanity

Shamwow - Here's what I see: You are in shock, you've been stewing, plotting, trying to hold it together for the last 4-5 days, egged on by a variety of opinions from internet people, which has given you a much needed sense of control over this situation. She, meanwhile, has in all likelihood, been in affair-land and is thinking/acting like a drunk socio-path. That's how all people act while they are in an affair. The brain chemistry is very similar to how addicts act. She, literally, is not in her right headspace.

The tough love stuff being bandied about is all about destroying the affair-land fantasy for a cheating spouse and bringing the situation back to reality. It's the equivalent of an intervention. 

I don't think it's wise to make any decisions until you talk with her and calm down a bit. It's easy to say that infidelity is a deal breaker, much harder for it to ACTUALLY be a deal breaker. Reconciling doesn't make you any more of a p*ssy than divorcing. They are both valid choices, and you don't need to justify what you choose to anyone but yourself.

It will become apparent pretty quickly by how she reacts what your next steps are. Either she'll snap back into reality and realize she's caught and is about to lose you, and then act accordingly, or she'll turtle, call you crazy, make up a bunch of lies, and try to stonewall you. Or something in between. From what I've seen, most women don't come clean right away.

You've made your contingency plans, you've gotten your ducks in a row, and now it's just a matter of waiting until you can speak with her. 

My only advice is try to stay calm, and be objective about what is happening when it's time for confrontation. Stick to your plan. If she denies, lies, minimizes, or treats you like a fool, then inform her that you will be proceeding with divorce. If she is accountable and honest with you, then stick around for a bit and see how it plays out. 

It's normal and perfectly okay to be freaking out. D-Day is one of the worst things anyone can go through. Hang in there and good luck.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I am like you Shamwow. I know that if my wife did what your wife did, I would be reacting like you. I would be saying divorce. But I know that I am weak when it comes to her. That she may be able to sweet talk me into giving her a chance to show her commitment.

I think you should not be there when she returns. She needs to see the divorce papers. She needs to have a few days to see that you are serious about not putting up with her behavior. That it is a deal breaker. If you are there, you may weaken, and she will take advantage of that and she won't learn anything other than you will be a doormat if she wants to go have fun again.

She has to feel real pain over what she did. She has to know that you will walk if she ever steps out again. It is going to be a tough few days for you. You may learn that she isn't willing to change and be the wife you deserve. You may learn that she is truly remorseful. You have to make sure you don't engage her for a few days, so she knows how serious you are.

You should leave the note you wrote for her and be gone.


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

Almostrecovered said:


> It would be a helluva story to make the circumstantial evidence say otherwise
> 
> a) she texts the OM wayyyy to much (EA proof right there)
> b) she gets pornographic emails from OM (more EA proof and certainly an indicator of sexual intentions)
> c) THE OM BOOKS A HOTEL ROOM RIGHT NEXT TO THE WIFE'S AT A TIME THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE THERE FOR WORK (I mean, seriously, this is a huge smoking gun)
> d) *Wife denies sex stating that "that's not what we're about" yet buys lingerie, gets her bush waxed, nails done and buys expensive clothes, NONE of which SW gets to see in action if the intent was for him. ALL of which was brought on trip and done at great expense with no regard to current financial situation.*
> e) Wife then plans to extend her trip to Vegas with OM and does NOT come home when it's made known that it is not acceptable NOR allows her husband to join her.
> f) Wife hides all of these facts from OM unless uncovered and then spins it into "it's just clean fun"
> 
> 
> really? no solid proof?
> 
> well no DNA stains, no dirty pics, no confession, no written proclamation of what was done
> 
> but please explain what could have possibly happened that isn't a PA in this scenario- because that's the very definition of beyond a reasonable doubt. No excuse that she could come up with is "reasonable" to think that a PA did NOT occur.



That's what spelt GAME OVER for me. Sorry, but i'm not having children with such a person.
But then that is just me...['Play Monies' anyone?]


----------



## Dadof3

8yearscheating said:


> You are probably right Gabriel. The laying down of the cards needs to happen and then the best course would be to back off and go away for few days and let her digest and move from the defiant/oppositional stage. Keep the D card for later. Don't respond at ALL, just lay it out and tell her you'll be back in 3 days to talk about next steps. Stay calm and cool, just list what you know and what you believe. Don't negotiate, argue or discuss.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Believe it or not, I think I agree with 8Y on this - I think SW game plan is good - but something tells me this approach (that 8Y) is talking about is one notch above. I think it would show an extra level of Alphaness (not to mention - she'll see what shes gonna be missing). 

The other comment from earlier - regarding scenarios - SW alluded to a text message saying the next job was iffy (although he already intercepted message saying she didn't get the next job) was that she's scared as she has messed up and is trying to find a way to delay the unavoidable.

This situation smacks of resolution for both involved. She needs to "Come to Jesus" and SW needs to speak his piece and show her what she's lost. Just my two cents, for what they are worth.


----------



## Almostrecovered

seeking sanity said:


> Shamwow - Here's what I see: You are in shock, you've been stewing, plotting, trying to hold it together for the last 4-5 days, egged on by a variety of opinions from internet people, which has given you a much needed sense of control over this situation. She, meanwhile, has in all likelihood, been in affair-land and is thinking/acting like a drunk socio-path. That's how all people act while they are in an affair. The brain chemistry is very similar to how addicts act. She, literally, is not in her right headspace.
> 
> The tough love stuff being bandied about is all about destroying the affair-land fantasy for a cheating spouse and bringing the situation back to reality. It's the equivalent of an intervention.
> 
> I don't think it's wise to make any decisions until you talk with her and calm down a bit. It's easy to say that infidelity is a deal breaker, much harder for it to ACTUALLY be a deal breaker. Reconciling doesn't make you any more of a p*ssy than divorcing. They are both valid choices, and you don't need to justify what you choose to anyone but yourself.
> 
> It will become apparent pretty quickly by how she reacts what your next steps are. Either she'll snap back into reality and realize she's caught and is about to lose you, and then act accordingly, or she'll turtle, call you crazy, make up a bunch of lies, and try to stonewall you. Or something in between. From what I've seen, most women don't come clean right away.
> 
> You've made your contingency plans, you've gotten your ducks in a row, and now it's just a matter of waiting until you can speak with her.
> 
> My only advice is try to stay calm, and be objective about what is happening when it's time for confrontation. Stick to your plan. If she denies, lies, minimizes, or treats you like a fool, then inform her that you will be proceeding with divorce. If she is accountable and honest with you, then stick around for a bit and see how it plays out.
> 
> It's normal and perfectly okay to be freaking out. D-Day is one of the worst things anyone can go through. Hang in there and good luck.


I agree with everything you say and I think SW has done a better job of handling this than most of us have during our own D-days, which is to say that information when utilized correctly can be powerful

which brings me to the point that yes he may wish to R down the line if she truly does what's needed (and he just said as such a few posts up). Preparing himself for the worst, however, is the best course of action and provides himself the best possible amount of protection on many levels (from financial to emotional). He is dealing, of course, with a person who only has their own best wishes at heart currently and those wishes have nothing to do with him and will cause him direct harm if not acted on. (well harm's already been done, its about minimizing it)

thus, it's the big question that we have come to-

should he confront and talk to her tonight or just leave a note and let her stew in her own mess for a few days?

Personally I think the stone cold reality of an empty house with no husband and no dogs and some divorce papers will shed more light on the situation she's put herself and her husband in to herself than anything he could say.

I don't condone that he never speak to her again, I don't condone that he let it go longer than 2 days before recontact

I also implore SW to contact the OM's wife tomorrow, she needs to also start her own arduous journey


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## Voiceofreason

QUOTE=Almostrecovered;404317]I agree with everything you say and I think SW has done a better job of handling this than most of us have during our own D-days, which is to say that information when utilized correctly can be powerful

which brings me to the point that yes he may wish to R down the line if she truly does what's needed (and he just said as such a few posts up). Preparing himself for the worst, however, is the best course of action and provides himself the best possible amount of protection on many levels (from financial to emotional). He is dealing, of course, with a person who only has their own best wishes at heart currently and those wishes have nothing to do with him and will cause him direct harm if not acted on. (well harm's already been done, its about minimizing it)

thus, it's the big question that we have come to-

should he confront and talk to her tonight or just leave a note and let her stew in her own mess for a few days?

Personally I think the stone cold reality of an empty house with no husband and no dogs and some divorce papers will shed more light on the situation she's put herself and her husband in to herself than anything he could say.

I don't condone that he never speak to her again, I don't condone that he let it go longer than 2 days before recontact

I also implore SW to contact the OM's wife tomorrow, she needs to also start her own arduous journey[/QUOTE]

:iagree::iagree:


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## 8yearscheating

I'm not trying to cast doubt on your mind Shamwow but I know love does strange things to us. I'm of the belief no one is 100% sure until the final papers are in. With me, my wife's change of heart, actions and commitment have allowed me to forgive 20 years three men and MY youngest daughter who is not biologically mine BECAUSE I still loved her. I heard all of the sane man up, dump the *****, you'd be happier divorced, file, think what she has done to stuff people have posted in this enormously long thread. In the end, I knew what I wanted, fought for it and thankfully she made the right choices. R is much more unlikely and difficult if the first salvo is global thermonuclear inihalation. That is why I suggest taking it slowly and seeing what develops. There is always time later to file and leave. What she's done is total sh!t but follows almost to the letter the typical A and fog behavior. Do no harm and try to get her to detox herself from what is similar to a heroin addiction. Then decide if you want to try. My marriage is better than it was before kids. I'm glad I did what I wanted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sam83

wow just keep it up SW you re just doing great there 

my question here if she came and show remorse and wanted R how could they make it while she away all the time I think if she stayed in the same job and away all the time R will be very hard


----------



## Shamwow

Off to therapist.


----------



## Shamwow

sam83 said:


> wow just keep it up SW you re just doing great there
> 
> my question here if she came and show remorse and wanted R how could they make it while she away all the time I think if she stayed in the same job and away all the time R will be very hard


There would be conditions on work and travel. She'd have to come off the road for a long time. IF and when she eventually had to travel, I would go with her the whole time, no questions asked. That would be a start. But why get ahead of ourselves here...


----------



## 8yearscheating

I still stand by telling her what you know, suspect and how severely it has torn you up then leave. Don't discuss, argue, negotiate or try to resolve tonight. Just tell her you will give her 3 days to think about it then you will discuss next steps. DON'T play the D card/threat yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

this thread has biblical implications 

I just felt an earthquake and I live near Philly


----------



## 8yearscheating

By doing it this way it your feelings and perspective and is not a challenge or confrontation. If she gets hussy and defiant she will have a couple of days to think before just reacting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhereAmI

8yearscheating said:


> I still stand by telling her what you know, suspect and how severely it has torn you up then leave. Don't discuss, argue, negotiate or try to resolve tonight. Just tell her you will give her 3 days to think about it then you will discuss next steps. DON'T play the D card/threat yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he tells her what he knows how will he be able to tell if she's being honest? The cheater handbook explicitly states, "Only admit to that which has been discovered." 

If he wanted to have a discussion it would be along the lines of, "You have something you need to share and I know more than you believe. If I don't have the truth soon, the divorce will proceed." 

Personally, I like his current game plan.


----------



## morituri

Almostrecovered said:


> Personally I think the stone cold reality of an empty house with no husband and no dogs and some divorce papers will shed more light on the situation she's put herself and her husband in to herself than anything he could say.
> 
> I don't condone that he never speak to her again, I don't condone that he let it go longer than 2 days before recontact


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

A few days of solitude won't kill her but it just may be enough to have her come out of the fog and realize what she has wrought. It will give her a taste of life post-divorce.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Her last text confirms it - she has NO clue.


There is a cluelessness here, but I am not sosure it is SWs doing.

Maybe that new lingerie she is wearing is clouding her mind. Remember the dopamine is flowing freely. She is in a fog.


----------



## 8yearscheating

You just said exactly what I did! Overdose of heroin and fog!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Sham,
> 
> One voice among many.
> 
> I think it is highly likely that she knows that you will be very upset. She cried a couple of days ago, although you don't know the reason, but she cried to you. Then, the text this morning... If you see her in person, you'll probably get the buttering up treatment. Syrupy sweet, hoping you will just let it go. The fog has gone on so long, I believe, that she may not see this as much more than a few days of tension before you forgive her.
> 
> For this reason, I think that you should leave her a clear and concise note, and be somewhere else for a while. I have a lot of respect for 8 years, but I think she needs to see life in a radically new light, on her own. Let it soak in for a while, then talk to her briefly on the phone, sticking to your guns. tell her that you might be willing to speak again the next day, on a time you choose, but keep it distant. Then, you'll know if she wants to reconcile or take an exit plan with the guy friends.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> After a week off from this forum, I checked and had to add something here.
> 
> So, for those invested in this thread, what are your predictions?
> 
> Here's mine. She has no clue Sham knows all that he knows, right? So really, she's about to be caught. She knows he knows about the trip that has two guys going (we still don't know if it was JUST her and the two guys, or if it's more of a group). She knows things havne't been going well and he has shown disapproval. She is likely hoping to rug sweep, come home, kiss and make up. She will likely try to do this and when Sham confronts with the lingerie, credit cards, wedding ring, emails, porn, next door hotel, etc, etc, etc, etc, (I mean my God there is so much here) she will be blindsided.
> 
> And that will be awesome. BUT, because it's a blindside, she will then get VERY defensive. Sounds like she is a strong woman. Strong women don't back down. She'll either deny/deflect/get angry, or she'll just yell at him for snopping around, like it's his fault.
> 
> That's my prediction.
> 
> Then, Shan will have two choices. Put his head down or his foot down. Head down is submissive, admitting to snooping, saying sorry, I should have respected your privacy, yada yada barf. Foot down is seeing this for what it is, a HUGE breach of marital vows, a total disregard for her husband, and tell her the marriage is over, you cheating WH*RE! Right?
> 
> Are there any other possible realistic paths here? Will she really be contrite and beg him for forgiveness and admit to anything? I just don't see that happening.
> 
> Others?


There will be a twist in this. I don't know what it is, something tells me he is going to be blindsided with something. I don't think she is pregnant but it is going be something none of us have thought about. She may just make up something. Maybe it is just that she had a threesome. She may not arrive home alone. I think he needs to be gone and see what she does. Maybe he should leave a recording device .......


----------



## Almostrecovered

Entropy3000 said:


> There will be a twist in this. I don't know what it is, something tells me he is going to be blindsided with something. I don't think she is pregnant but it is going be something none of us have thought about. She may just make up something. Maybe it is just that she had a threesome. She may not arrive home alone. I think he needs to be gone and see what she does. Maybe he should leave a recording device .......


prepare for the worst but don't worry about stuff that may or may not have happened, he has enough to fret over


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> If you respond and say NO I don't want to fly there (such a stupid suggestion BTW), then that gives her fuel for saying she was trying to invite you to party. "Hey, I asked, you turned it down." Don't fall for it. Pretend you never got the text!!!


He could be on the way to Vegas while she flys home. Maybe just a way to get him out of the house so she can hide the evidence.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I hate to say but some of you would make great soap Oprah writers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

sam83 said:


> wow just keep it up SW you re just doing great there
> 
> my question here if she came and show remorse and wanted R how could they make it while she away all the time I think if she stayed in the same job and away all the time R will be very hard


He gave her a chance to do just that. Several actually. Instead she told him calmly that she lied to him but was going with thes eother guys anyway. He offerred to go as well. She told him not to. They were not having fun. She needed some fun.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> this thread has biblical implications
> 
> I just felt an earthquake and I live near Philly


Like a millions voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> You just said exactly what I did! Overdose of heroin and fog!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Entropy3000 said:


> He gave her a chance to do just that. Several actually. Instead she told him calmly that she lied to him but was going with thes eother guys anyway. He offerred to go as well. She told him not to. They were not having fun. She needed some fun.


So is fun what the kids are calling sex these days?

SW - My best wishes to you, what ever the result. I am rooting for you.


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> So is fun what the kids are calling sex these days?
> 
> SW - My best wishes to you, what ever the result. I am rooting for you.


That is what she means.


----------



## Gabriel

Really really curious about something not yet said. Who all went on this trip? If just her and two guys, with clear no-go from hubby - there is no turning back. You can't just go home and expect hubby back. I'd be done.

But it's not clear if others joined them in a group trip or not. It's still not okay if the husband forbids it, but still, I am curious about that. If just her and two guys only, that is seriously amazing.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am dying to hear about the big confrontation. Rooting for you Sham!!


----------



## 8yearscheating

We all have your back Sham. Cool calm collected. Give it time to sink and be digested


----------



## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> I still stand by telling her what you know, suspect and how severely it has torn you up then leave. Don't discuss, argue, negotiate or try to resolve tonight. Just tell her you will give her 3 days to think about it then you will discuss next steps. DON'T play the D card/threat yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree completely about the D card. Start that meter running, and force her to get off the fence. There is no reason to let her think she is going to have a marriage after this. If she wants one, SHE needs to take the first step. You have to leave some space for her to step into. As Hitch says, go 90% of the way and let her close the last 10%. This is standard operating procedure with women. I think your situation may be clouding your judgement here. 

I realize you may not have handled your R this way, but I'm positive this is the best way to go if you want any sanity. Kudos to ShamWow for having the courage to do it, and don't try to talk him off the ledge. That's his W's job.

Of COURSE reconciliation is possible until it's not. But the man CAN'T be the one to ask for it in this situation. It has to be HER struggling to save the marriage. It's weak to do otherwise, and even if reconciliation is his final goal, the worst possible way to go about it is by blinking first. Stand firm; the so-called nuclear option is the fastest way to wake her up. You don't back off that trigger until she begs for her marriage, which she so casually tossed away.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I did man but only after she refused to stop
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Almostrecovered said:


> this thread has biblical implications


Dog and cats living together.



> I just felt an earthquake and I live near Philly


Congratulations. You and the whole East coast have just had your earthquake cherries popped.


----------



## 8yearscheating

The same with r requirements. Don't pile on an Airtight list. It will cause a bull headed alpha woman to only see the red cape and feel the sword she put in her own shoulder that she will blame shift you for putting there!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

morituri said:


> Dog and cats living together.
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations. You and the whole East coast have just had your earthquake cherries popped.


Hold me


----------



## 8yearscheating

How does having your cherry popped feel? Been so long I forgot! I have too many skids marks to even imagine! And no, no after cuddling!


----------



## morituri

To borrow foggy unfaithful spouse lingo:

East coast to West coast: "It's all your fault"


----------



## Almostrecovered

I honestly didnt even know what was happening until I left the building (was going outside to check the roof as it felt like some heavy machinery was up there creating vibrations and havok) and saw that everyone in the business complex also went outside and then I said to myself, "ohhhh...that was an earthquake!"


----------



## FieryHairedLady

WOnder how all this will play out tonight. Stay firm.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Mori, as an East Coaster, that was a cherry I'd prefer not to have popped. 

Hopefully the explosion Sham's W doesn't tip the Richter Scale. But whatever she does, I believe Sham is prepared to handle it.


----------



## Stonewall

Wow! I have never gotten so caught up in something like this thread in my life. 

Its been like being involved in some kind of interactive novel or something!


----------



## morituri

After this thread ends, everybody's going to committ mass suicide because life will be meaningless.:rofl:


----------



## Stonewall

morituri said:


> After this thread ends, everybody's going to committ mass suicide because life will be meaningless.:rofl:


Really. I feel bad for the **** sham has had to go through and feel like I want to go kick the other guys ass so much that after the end of this I'm gonna be ...........ok what do I do now?


----------



## Gabriel

LOL - I'm on pins and needles myself


----------



## Entropy3000

Stonewall said:


> Really. I feel bad for the **** sham has had to go through and *feel like I want to go kick the other guys ass so much t*hat after the end of this I'm gonna be ...........ok what do I do now?


I'm in.


----------



## Entropy3000

What if he goes dark on us?


----------



## 8yearscheating

He might if he feels he is going to much against the common flow. I'm in too on the OM. Give me his phone number and I'll be sure to tell him I can shoot the nuts off a fly like him at 1000 yards and he won't even hear it till his junk is splattered all over the ground! Keep it up and watch your back! It will come when you least expect it! Oh and your wife was reaaallll good. Told me you never went this deep or soooo good!


----------



## 8yearscheating

Hell we'll gang bang his cell phone!


----------



## Shamwow

Hey all, thanks for the support. Massive, just massive.

She texted earlier "Should I plan to take a cab or are you going to be available to pick me up?"

That's a good sign she's aware of my disposition. She never has had to ask that before. I texted back "Time?" She said "6:30, flight ____". I replied with "Hafta take a cab. Will be working downtown, will leave a key under flowerpot." She said "Cool". End of conversation. I will come home about an hour after she will have gotten there.

I have decided to go with direct confrontation. Right away. I know it might not give me the most "bang for my buck" in jarring her in an instant, but at least I will have given her a chance to speak (AFTER I'm done) before disappearing. No matter the outcome I'll be leaving for at least a couple of days and will go dark.

Plan to tell her I have things to say to her, and I want her to listen until I'm done. Then will tell her I know all about what's been going on. Hardest decision I've ever made to even be here when she got back. As a result, have spoken to attorney, papers drawn up, prepared to move on.

Will not be her second priority. Life, love, anything. I'm her husband. I get top billing in all things from her. Same goes from me to her. That's marriage. If our marriage is just on paper, then can't see a point.

That her actions show me she doesn't value our marriage. If she DOES value it, then I will give her a chance to tell me everything about what's been going on, tell me her side. From the beginning. Everything. Who, what, when, where, why, and it will be the truth. Don't lie, don't tell me only what you think I already know...because I know plenty. I know *enough*.

If she's not willing to do that, I'll be leaving tonight and she will hear from my attorney and I will wish her a happy single life.

If she is willing to do that, I'll tell her I won't promise it'll make any difference to me, but I will promise to listen. (I will still be leaving for a few days even if she takes the "talking option", but will address that after she's done)


Then tell her she has the floor.


I won't let her cut me off. If she does I'll put up my hand and calmly say "You said you would listen until I'm done." When she's talking (if she does), I'll not cut her off, or join into any argument she may try to start. If she starts crying, I will not comfort her, I'll just let her regain her compsure on her own...she knows she's in the wrong. If she gets angry or starts screaming or hurling insults, I'll walk out of the room and start grabbing my bag and any other incidentals I'll be taking with me and say "Not going to argue. I'll be in touch in a few days, and maybe we can talk then."


This is the way it's going to go down folks. Wish me luck. I am prepared for any response, mainly by being silent and taking the high road and not enabling her to escalate things. I know it won't go as planned by any means, but I think I'm ready. Will be recording audio.


----------



## Shamwow

Countdown, T-Minus 3 hours to lift-off.


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> If she gets angry or starts screaming or hurling insults, I'll walk out of the room and start grabbing my bag and any other incidentals I'll be taking with me and say "Not going to argue. I'll be in touch in a few days, and maybe we can talk then."


SW get that bag completely packed and sitting by the door.
Better yet put it in the car now.

Don`t be screwing around with "incidentals" if you need to get out of there and you may very well "need" to get out of there.

I still think you shouldn't even be there when she gets there.

Good Luck Shamwow.


----------



## Anubis

ManDup said:


> I disagree completely about the D card. Start that meter running, and force her to get off the fence. There is no reason to let her think she is going to have a marriage after this. If she wants one, SHE needs to take the first step. You have to leave some space for her to step into. As Hitch says, go 90% of the way and let her close the last 10%. This is standard operating procedure with women. I think your situation may be clouding your judgement here.
> 
> I realize you may not have handled your R this way, but I'm positive this is the best way to go if you want any sanity. Kudos to ShamWow for having the courage to do it, and don't try to talk him off the ledge. That's his W's job.
> 
> Of COURSE reconciliation is possible until it's not. But the man CAN'T be the one to ask for it in this situation. It has to be HER struggling to save the marriage. It's weak to do otherwise, and even if reconciliation is his final goal, the worst possible way to go about it is by blinking first. Stand firm; the so-called nuclear option is the fastest way to wake her up. You don't back off that trigger until she begs for her marriage, which she so casually tossed away.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

8years - you're making me upset. It almost seems like you want him to back down, submit to her, apologize and do all "the work" of fixing the marriage, when clearly he did none of the work to mess it up.


Sham, Absolutely DO NOT tell her specifics about what you know. She will ask, over and over again in every way she can think of, all so she can do damage control. This is your best shot for her to come clean. Once she thinks she knows what you know, she'll never admit to more than that.


----------



## Voiceofreason

you guys are funny...I am imagining a TAM posse of BS's who mobilize to kick the OM's ass on behalf of the all BS's..just provide name, description (photo best) and location 

Revenge fantasies are wonderful...


----------



## Shamwow

tacoma said:


> SW get that bag completely packed and sitting by the door.
> Better yet put it in the car now.
> 
> Don`t be screwing around with "incidentals" if you need to get out of there and you may very well "need" to get out of there.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Bag is packed, will go put it in car now and any incidentals I may need.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Dadof3

Anubis said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> 8years - you're making me upset. It almost seems like you want him to back down, submit to her, apologize and do all "the work" of fixing the marriage, when clearly he did none of the work to mess it up.
> 
> 
> Sham, Absolutely DO NOT tell her specifics about what you know. She will ask, over and over again in every way she can think of, all so she can do damage control. This is your best shot for her to come clean. Once she thinks she knows what you know, she'll never admit to more than that.


I think SW has a good plan - it is one that he can live with (if I put myself in his shoes - I'd feel the same way) - there are somethings you have to do in person - I think this is one of them - provided he can stick to the script (it wont go perfect -but a plan is better than none at all). 

Good luck Sham.


----------



## Saffron

Good luck SW, I hope it goes well and no matter what happens you'll have the thread for support. I hope she doesn't trickle truth, blameshift, and/or deny... but I'm guessing she will at first. Stay strong and eventually she'll understand the situation, perhaps then she'll open up with some truth.


----------



## Voiceofreason

I wish you the best SW...good luck...keep CALM..you hold the upper hand..which is control of the situation....be sure you keep that by keeping control of yourself--as difficult as that is...


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Shamwow said:


> Hey all, thanks for the support. Massive, just massive.
> 
> She texted earlier "Should I plan to take a cab or are you going to be available to pick me up?"
> 
> That's a good sign she's aware of my disposition. She never has had to ask that before. I texted back "Time?" She said "6:30, flight ____". I replied with "Hafta take a cab. Will be working downtown, will leave a key under flowerpot." She said "Cool". End of conversation. I will come home about an hour after she will have gotten there.
> 
> I have decided to go with direct confrontation. Right away. I know it might not give me the most "bang for my buck" in jarring her in an instant, but at least I will have given her a chance to speak (AFTER I'm done) before disappearing. No matter the outcome I'll be leaving for at least a couple of days and will go dark.
> 
> Plan to tell her I have things to say to her, and I want her to listen until I'm done. Then will tell her I know all about what's been going on. Hardest decision I've ever made to even be here when she got back. As a result, have spoken to attorney, papers drawn up, prepared to move on.
> 
> Will not be her second priority. Life, love, anything. I'm her husband. I get top billing in all things from her. Same goes from me to her. That's marriage. If our marriage is just on paper, then can't see a point.
> 
> That her actions show me she doesn't value our marriage. If she DOES value it, then I will give her a chance to tell me everything about what's been going on, tell me her side. From the beginning. Everything. Who, what, when, where, why, and it will be the truth. Don't lie, don't tell me only what you think I already know...because I know plenty. I know *enough*.
> 
> If she's not willing to do that, I'll be leaving tonight and she will hear from my attorney and I will wish her a happy single life.
> 
> If she is willing to do that, I'll tell her I won't promise it'll make any difference to me, but I will promise to listen. (I will still be leaving for a few days even if she takes the "talking option", but will address that after she's done)
> 
> 
> Then tell her she has the floor.
> 
> 
> I won't let her cut me off. If she does I'll put up my hand and calmly say "You said you would listen until I'm done." When she's talking (if she does), I'll not cut her off, or join into any argument she may try to start. If she starts crying, I will not comfort her, I'll just let her regain her compsure on her own...she knows she's in the wrong. If she gets angry or starts screaming or hurling insults, I'll walk out of the room and start grabbing my bag and any other incidentals I'll be taking with me and say "Not going to argue. I'll be in touch in a few days, and maybe we can talk then."
> 
> 
> This is the way it's going to go down folks. Wish me luck. I am prepared for any response, mainly by being silent and taking the high road and not enabling her to escalate things. I know it won't go as planned by any means, but I think I'm ready. Will be recording audio.


I like your plan. I am impressed. Good luck tonight! :smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> He might if he feels he is going to much against the common flow. I'm in too on the OM. Give me his phone number and I'll be sure to tell him I can shoot the nuts off a fly like him at 1000 yards and he won't even hear it till his junk is splattered all over the ground! Keep it up and watch your back! It will come when you least expect it! Oh and your wife was reaaallll good. Told me you never went this deep or soooo good!


I can hack his 401K


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Hey all, thanks for the support. Massive, just massive.
> 
> She texted earlier "Should I plan to take a cab or are you going to be available to pick me up?"
> 
> That's a good sign she's aware of my disposition. She never has had to ask that before. I texted back "Time?" She said "6:30, flight ____". I replied with "Hafta take a cab. Will be working downtown, will leave a key under flowerpot." She said "Cool". End of conversation. I will come home about an hour after she will have gotten there.
> 
> I have decided to go with direct confrontation. Right away. I know it might not give me the most "bang for my buck" in jarring her in an instant, but at least I will have given her a chance to speak (AFTER I'm done) before disappearing. No matter the outcome I'll be leaving for at least a couple of days and will go dark.
> 
> Plan to tell her I have things to say to her, and I want her to listen until I'm done. Then will tell her I know all about what's been going on. Hardest decision I've ever made to even be here when she got back. As a result, have spoken to attorney, papers drawn up, prepared to move on.
> 
> Will not be her second priority. Life, love, anything. I'm her husband. I get top billing in all things from her. Same goes from me to her. That's marriage. If our marriage is just on paper, then can't see a point.
> 
> That her actions show me she doesn't value our marriage. If she DOES value it, then I will give her a chance to tell me everything about what's been going on, tell me her side. From the beginning. Everything. Who, what, when, where, why, and it will be the truth. Don't lie, don't tell me only what you think I already know...because I know plenty. I know *enough*.
> 
> If she's not willing to do that, I'll be leaving tonight and she will hear from my attorney and I will wish her a happy single life.
> 
> If she is willing to do that, I'll tell her I won't promise it'll make any difference to me, but I will promise to listen. (I will still be leaving for a few days even if she takes the "talking option", but will address that after she's done)
> 
> 
> Then tell her she has the floor.
> 
> 
> I won't let her cut me off. If she does I'll put up my hand and calmly say "You said you would listen until I'm done." When she's talking (if she does), I'll not cut her off, or join into any argument she may try to start. If she starts crying, I will not comfort her, I'll just let her regain her compsure on her own...she knows she's in the wrong. If she gets angry or starts screaming or hurling insults, I'll walk out of the room and start grabbing my bag and any other incidentals I'll be taking with me and say "Not going to argue. I'll be in touch in a few days, and maybe we can talk then."
> 
> 
> This is the way it's going to go down folks. Wish me luck. I am prepared for any response, mainly by being silent and taking the high road and not enabling her to escalate things. I know it won't go as planned by any means, but I think I'm ready. Will be recording audio.


Smoothly done. You are taking the intiative. Decisive. I like it. I wish you luck indeed. Try to hold on to your energy. Eat something you can keep down.


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Hey all, thanks for the support. Massive, just massive.
> 
> She texted earlier "Should I plan to take a cab or are you going to be available to pick me up?"
> 
> That's a good sign she's aware of my disposition. She never has had to ask that before. I texted back "Time?" She said "6:30, flight ____". I replied with "Hafta take a cab. Will be working downtown, will leave a key under flowerpot." She said "Cool". End of conversation. I will come home about an hour after she will have gotten there.
> 
> I have decided to go with direct confrontation. Right away. I know it might not give me the most "bang for my buck" in jarring her in an instant, but at least I will have given her a chance to speak (AFTER I'm done) before disappearing. No matter the outcome I'll be leaving for at least a couple of days and will go dark.
> 
> Plan to tell her I have things to say to her, and I want her to listen until I'm done. Then will tell her I know all about what's been going on. Hardest decision I've ever made to even be here when she got back. As a result, have spoken to attorney, papers drawn up, prepared to move on.
> 
> Will not be her second priority. Life, love, anything. I'm her husband. I get top billing in all things from her. Same goes from me to her. That's marriage. If our marriage is just on paper, then can't see a point.
> 
> That her actions show me she doesn't value our marriage. If she DOES value it, then I will give her a chance to tell me everything about what's been going on, tell me her side. From the beginning. Everything. Who, what, when, where, why, and it will be the truth. Don't lie, don't tell me only what you think I already know...because I know plenty. I know *enough*.
> 
> If she's not willing to do that, I'll be leaving tonight and she will hear from my attorney and I will wish her a happy single life.
> 
> If she is willing to do that, I'll tell her I won't promise it'll make any difference to me, but I will promise to listen. (I will still be leaving for a few days even if she takes the "talking option", but will address that after she's done)
> 
> 
> Then tell her she has the floor.
> 
> 
> I won't let her cut me off. If she does I'll put up my hand and calmly say "You said you would listen until I'm done." When she's talking (if she does), I'll not cut her off, or join into any argument she may try to start. If she starts crying, I will not comfort her, I'll just let her regain her compsure on her own...she knows she's in the wrong. If she gets angry or starts screaming or hurling insults, I'll walk out of the room and start grabbing my bag and any other incidentals I'll be taking with me and say "Not going to argue. I'll be in touch in a few days, and maybe we can talk then."
> 
> 
> This is the way it's going to go down folks. Wish me luck. I am prepared for any response, mainly by being silent and taking the high road and not enabling her to escalate things. I know it won't go as planned by any means, but I think I'm ready. Will be recording audio.


This sounds like a good plan. I like it even better than not being there. It takes a big sack, and you have a plan for not backing down, and yet it's humane. Giving her time to think is awesome. You've got your boundaries for the conversation, now stick to them and it should go great. Good luck.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Don't assume she'll be there when you arrive an hour later, she may go crying to a friend or even go looking for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Wife is getting annoyed that I'm glued to my phone, guess I don't want her thinking I'm having an affair, LOL

Good luck SW, I'll have to wait to see how it went tomorrow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating

Anubis - nothing of the sort. But, he may want to R if things turn with her. You folks who propose scorched earth - I fear for you and you and your spouses. If there is NO compassion for the addiction she has, scorched earth will surely result in D. I'm not suggesting he give up right to the right actions and feelings from her at all. It takes two to R and to have a marriage. Scorched earth results in one. Pushing a single agenda and a single plan with no alternatives is what causes complete and utter failure.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Oh and how will you feel if he does R? Are you going to call him an idiot?


----------



## joe kidd

8yearscheating said:


> Anubis - nothing of the sort. But, he may want to R if things turn with her. You folks who propose scorched earth - I fear for you and you and your spouses. If there is NO compassion for the addiction she has, scorched earth will surely result in D. I'm not suggesting he give up right to the right actions and feelings from her at all. It takes two to R and to have a marriage. Scorched earth results in one. Pushing a single agenda and a single plan with no alternatives is what causes complete and utter failure.


Ummm not always. I went scorched earth and it opened my SO's eyes. She saw what she was throwing away and responded appropriately to try and save it.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Really, was that the FIRST thing you did? ANd how m long did it take for her to recover her trust in YOU?


----------



## 8yearscheating

ANd firmly state you left her NO option!


----------



## joe kidd

8yearscheating said:


> Really, was that the FIRST thing you did? ANd how m long did it take for her to recover her trust in YOU?


In all honesty I showed her the same disregard that I thought she was showing me. At the time I didn't really care what she thought or how she felt. She has done all the work in this R. I will give her that. The 1st thing I did was go through a case of beer waiting for her to get home from work. It wasn't pretty.


----------



## Gabriel

Best of luck Sham. I'll check back on this thread in the morning and see how it went. Your plan sounds perfect. Please stick to it.


----------



## the guy

Thank god we got 8- is around to balance it all out. 
I think Sham has a awsome plan (not that I matter) and work the plan brother.
I think her cab deal, is a sign that indicates, to her, the things to come. So be prepared she will be *ready* for the confrontation. I would think it will go per script, so again be prepared.

She'll deny first, then admit a 1/4 of it, then admit 1/2 of it. You may not get 3/4 until a few days....after you have left.

Even though this is an assumtion on my part, trickel truth is par to the course when it comes to the script. 

In my case my WW told me more then I knew, but still took days to get alot more out of her. The thing is she will look bad I mean real bad and out of self preservation she will minumize the evil she has done. It takes alot of courage to spill this kind of evil all at once. Not being a wayward spouse, but talking with my WW it is a shock to the system to expose your self to something you thought would never be exposed...things she has blocked out of her mind so she can sleep at night.


----------



## Gabriel

My wife said her lies were to cover her butt. And it spiraled. All waywards lie. All of them. Even ones that want to reconcile.

8 years does balance things out some, but I side with the others on this one. He needs to turn cold, dark, etc. If she crawls back, then he can decide whether he wants to R. But only then.

His W has done a LOT of really bad stuff here. More than many other waywards involved in EAs. The evidence he's found is staggering.


----------



## morituri

8yearscheating said:


> Oh and how will you feel if he does R? Are you going to call him an idiot?


I for one will respect his decision with the hope that the R is not a false one and he suffers more emotional damage.

It's his life and he has every right do with it as he sees fit.


----------



## joe kidd

morituri said:


> I for one will respect his decision with the hope that the R is not a false one and he suffers more emotional damage.
> 
> It's his life and he has every right do with it as he sees fit.


Agreed. I hope all works out for him. 8 years, you sir are a saint, I could never be as patient as you man.


----------



## morituri

joe kidd said:


> 8 years, you sir are a saint, I could never be as patient as you man.


Indeed. I may not agree with 8+ regarding this situation but I still admire the man.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Thank you all, but I am no saint. Fast is slow, and slow is smooth and careful. A hero is not one who stands up to face the overwhelming enemy facing him and gets killed. It is a man who takes measured shots and takes out as many of the enemy as possible before being over run. With women addicted it takes compassion and patience. Do no harm. You didn't want it done to you!


----------



## the guy

He did go dark, all week end, she knew she needed a cab, she has intuition also, she is having some feeling here.

You would have to be a complete phyco path to not realize what you did instead of coming home when you spouse asked you to. I believe she knows she did him wrong by this and just isn't sure on his plan. She knew, did it anyway, and gambled that he'd tolorate it.

I see a well balance/smart man (Shamwow under the circumstances)) who no longer knows who his wife is and is doing the best to balance it and all out and what works best *for him* in the long run.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I agree - HEad up, shoulder into the wind Shamwow. Your courage is inspiring! Give it time.


----------



## Shamwow

She just texted that she's home. I've checked into my hotel and had a small bite to eat. Will be heading over soon. Ten bucks she's already looking through my office and finding lots of things missing. 

Talked with one of the friends ive told about this just now. He says she texted him earlier, said she was kind of in a dark place. He asked if she's okay. She said she will be someday. 

She knows she's walking into a s***storm guys. Don't know if that's good or bad. Guess it doesn't matter. I'll find out shortly. Deep breaths...wtf am I doing????

Hopefully I'll be alive later and be able to fill you in on what happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Hey 8- I ran out aluminom foil and I'm way deep my cave...shoot now I have to walk all the way up stairs and get fitness tested by her for using all the foil. 

Sorry for the thread jack


----------



## joe kidd

Best of luck. Hope all this turns out to be nothing. I really do.


----------



## Shamwow

Feel like I'm about to go skydiving with the intention of NOT pulling chute...and see if it might open on its own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Who doesn't feel dark when you get home from Vegas?

You will be fine, you have a plan , stay calm, and work it through

We've all been there its just a thing 

"ain't nothin but a thing"

Platoon


----------



## morituri

Courage. You're not alone brother.


----------



## 8yearscheating

the guy said:


> Hey 8- I ran out aluminom foil and I'm way deep my cave...shoot now I have to walk all the way up stairs and get fitness tested by her for using all the foil.
> 
> Sorry for the thread jack


I'll send a case stat. Glad to see you guys can take a joke!


----------



## 8yearscheating

You'll do great Shamwow. You love her, I can tell and you'll do your best. Just keep your temper in control and wal;k away if you feel like your going to lose it!!! Tell her you need a time out and leave. Keep us posted.


----------



## the guy

I hope he's not begging or crying...he doesn't seem the type.

Stay stong brother, stay strong.

Confidence, confidence, confidnece.....

It was 18 month ago when I was in this crap, man it is for sure the toughest things I've been through. The shaking, the butterflies the nusia. If I remember correctly it was a few days before I eate.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> She just texted that she's home. I've checked into my hotel and had a small bite to eat. Will be heading over soon. Ten bucks she's already looking through my office and finding lots of things missing.
> 
> Talked with one of the friends ive told about this just now. He says she texted him earlier, said she was kind of in a dark place. He asked if she's okay. She said she will be someday.
> 
> She knows she's walking into a s***storm guys. Don't know if that's good or bad. Guess it doesn't matter. I'll find out shortly. Deep breaths...wtf am I doing????
> 
> Hopefully I'll be alive later and be able to fill you in on what happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you have done is working sir. Well done.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Feel like I'm about to go skydiving with the intention of NOT pulling chute...and see if it might open on its own.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It will open on impact.


----------



## 8yearscheating

The measure of courage is not whether a man jumps it's how high he bounces!


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> The measure of courage is not whether a man jumps it's how high he bounces!


Love it!

:smthumbup:


----------



## CH

So who's dying from the suspense?


----------



## the guy

I'm hoping that Mrs. Shamwow spills the beans and lays everything out, with the pure sence off getting everything out on the table, with nothing to hide and no more lies. Getting this monkey off her back. 
Some guys can bear it some guys can't, but the fact that this is tackeled head on and brought out to be addressed, dealt with, and more impotantly learned from.
A learning experience that can either heal their marraige or prepare them for future... healthier relationships

Yes, I know hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Don't get on me for wishful think here......
Not having heard her side I can only asssume she is the devil and she will never change.....but as many here do....we have hope for humanity.

Man this is deep.


----------



## nada

the guy said:


> Yes, I know hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Don't get on me for wishful think here......
> Not having heard her side I can only asssume she is the devil *and she will never change*.....but as many here do....we have hope for humanity.
> 
> Man this is deep.



On the basis of what SW have told us, do you (all) think that she is able to change or has a deep desire to change and be faithfull to SW? It's a hypothetical, but we are all generalizing and infering from our own experience....

Nada


----------



## the guy

My WW changed, so I'm in the yes crowd.

--------------disclaimer--------------
Not saying she will, just saying its possible


----------



## joe kidd

the guy said:


> My WW changed, so I'm in the yes crowd.
> 
> --------------disclaimer--------------
> Not saying she will, just saying its possible


Same here. People can change, mine did.


----------



## Shamwow

Denied everything. Caved. Mention of attorney did not help. All she keeps mentioning now. F**k.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, can you elaborate? I don't understand.


----------



## Shamwow

Sorry guys. Was great through the confront. She denied everything, except wanting to piss me off, and just wanting to feel sexy, because we hadn't been intimate in so long. More later


----------



## the guy

It sound like the proof was not copied and provided to her! 

WHY????????????

Bottom line you were managed, she talked her way out of it and nothing can change her behavior she exhibited this past week.

Even with out the sex she is not acting the way a wife should, maybe I'm old fashion but....................


----------



## Gabriel

I think what he is saying is that she is claiming she left the evidence he found on purpose. Leaving the ring, the buying lingerie, the Vegas trip, etc, was done to 1) piss him off, and 2) feel sexy again, whether by getting his attention or someone else's.

Thing is, that doesn't explain the porn, or the next door hotel. 

Maybe I'm not interpreting this correctly, but Sham will give us more detail later, I"m sure.


----------



## CH

Maybe he wanted her to come forward and tell the truth, if she was truly remorseful she would have told him everything.

And he's probably holding back the Nuke for the last second.


----------



## the guy

I hope he bailed, what she did this past week was still wrong!


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> I think what he is saying is that she is claiming she left the evidence he found on purpose. Leaving the ring, the buying lingerie, the Vegas trip, etc, was done to 1) piss him off, and 2) feel sexy again, whether by getting his attention or someone else's.
> 
> Thing is, that doesn't explain the porn, or the next door hotel.
> 
> Maybe I'm not interpreting this correctly, but Sham will give us more detail later, I"m sure.


I think she meant the lingerie was to make her feel sexy. Clearly just covering with this.

You know going to Vegas with two guys to piss him off does not make her position any better. She will probably claim he pissed her off by talking to her about cheating before she went on the trip. Now this makes no sense but it is all she has.

Total BS.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> I hope he bailed, what she did this past week was still wrong!


$5 they are in bed right now.


----------



## CH

Entropy3000 said:


> I think she meant the lingerie was to make her feel sexy. Clearly just covering with this.
> 
> You know going to Vegas with two guys to piss him off does not make her position any better. She will probably claim he pissed her off by talking to her about cheating before she went on the trip. Now this makes no sense but it is all she has.
> 
> Total BS.


The sad thing is that alot of guys would have probably bought that line and apologized to their wives and vise versa.

Shamwow had a plan and from all his postings I'm pretty sure he stuck to his plan. I hope he didn't go in for a severance pop before bailing. But then again......

LOL Entropy, you read my mind


----------



## Entropy3000

cheatinghubby said:


> The sad thing is that alot of guys would have probably bought that line and apologized to their wives and vise versa.
> 
> Shamwow had a plan and from all his postings I'm pretty sure he stuck to his plan. I hope he didn't go in for a *severance pop before bailing. But then again......*


That still works. If he does however he better go in and get checked.


----------



## the guy

But then again she could be a smooth talker, Shamow has made the point about her ability to talk the talk.

I think we can all agree that she covered with what she had and as you all sit out side the forest we can clarly see it. 

Shamwow seems like the kind of guy that will regroup and and carrry on with his plan.

We all have been down this road and it ain't easy, no matter how you look at it there is no way you can be your best when your dealing with these kinds of emotions.


----------



## Anubis

Shamwow said:


> Sorry guys. Was great through the confront. She denied everything, except wanting to piss me off, and just wanting to feel sexy, because we hadn't been intimate in so long. More later


I can't buy that. That's a Rube Goldberg invention just "to piss you off". Sounds like full a**-covering to me. (besides, how low would a person have to think of their spouse to go to such great lengths and expense 'to piss them off'

I traveled down this road myself. Hang in there Sham, and sttel your resolve.


----------



## Whip Morgan

I can't imagine anyone who has read TAM for more than a day is surprised that she denied. I don't think Sham was surprised, either. After everything he has discovered and all the straight talk he heard here, I don't imagine him caving in. I think he'll continue with the seperation, seems like he has a solid head on his shoulders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

My guess is he loves her and he caved. I also believe they are in bed, making up. 

But tomorrow his fog will lift. He will have many questions for her answers that just don't add up.


----------



## CH

SadSamIAm said:


> My guess is he loves her and he caved. I also believe they are in bed, making up.
> 
> But tomorrow his fog will lift. He will have many questions for her answers that just don't add up.


I doubt that's what happened but you never know. A naked woman is a very powerful tool against any man.


----------



## Saffron

Knew she'd deny, seems like they always do.

If she tries to claim there was no affair and did everything intentionally to piss him off, even that is cold enough to question the marriage.

However, I doubt that's the truth. She came back distant after being gone 10 weeks not wanting to be intimate. However, she continued to work on becoming sexier, then told SW she wasn't interested in him. If I'm not interested in sex with my H, I go for the least sexy items I own... not the most. 

Not to mention the frequent texts, emails, and OM staying in nearby hotel. How does one explain all that away? At the very least it's an EA and a load of dishonesty. Personal grooming, new sexy lingerie, and a clearly stated "you're not invited" to SW all points heavily to a PA.

Regardless of what she tells SW, he's got to do what's right for him. If that means buying her tale until he gathers further proof, then so be it. If it means walking out the door until further notice, that's okay too. Go with your gut SW, it's usually right.


----------



## SadSamIAm

This is exactly why he shouldn't have done this in person. He should have left a note. He should not have put himself in the position to cave to her 'sweet talk'. 

Even if she didn't cheat. She needs to know that this 'stunt' is not acceptable. This 'stunt' will only hurt their marriage because it will make it very difficult for him to trust her.


----------



## Whip Morgan

As Im currently watching Lost on Blu ray, I am consistenly checking this thread. Time to put the iPhone down. There is way too much stacked against her for Sham to dismiss. I think he is in a whirlwind of emotion which must be very painful for him. But I dont see him buying this hook line and sinker. Hopefully not after a 30+ page thread that has provided advice to him. Stay strong Sham!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Did anyone really anticipate this story of hers NOT happening? 

I still think in-person confrontation was the best thing for Sham - this will allow him to see her for who she has truly become. Nothings more powerful than that.

Now open the D-bomb hatch. Target has been acquired. Coordinates being fed to your station. Arming.....

Time to flush the turd.


----------



## seeking sanity

Sorry to hear that, I know you've been going through a huge emotional arc and this is a sh*tty outcome. Keep on the exercise, time for the 180. You can expect to feel a huge range of emotions, and to be bombarded with a load of BS. Now that she knows your agenda, she'll be fabricating a story to semi-plausibly deny. It's called Gas Lighting. Expect it to go on for sometime, possibly forever.

Do you have friends/family you can confide in? It's better if you can bring one or two buddies into the loop.


----------



## seeking sanity

BTW guys: What he should or should not have done is irrelevant at this point. There is no right answer. Let's give the guy a break. I'm sure he feels like hell as it is.


----------



## morituri

Okay boys and girls its time to go to bed.


----------



## meatloaf

i have followed your thread sham ...

just to emphasize that why you have consideration to reconcile. if you mention divorce after knowing that she cheats then just divorce. do not think or consider of any reconciliation. once you think divorce then divorce. never to reconcile after affair. i do not know as why men can open their mouth mentioning divorce after affair but after their cheating wives feel remorse and serious to work on the M, then they will give another chance. hey, come on, no space or chance for cheaters. they are not worthy at all. all you have to think for survive is ignore, delete, erase and burn all memories about them, if they died one day, then you must not need to know, they are not your business at all. and just concentrate on yourself, move on without your stbxw.

good luck

sorry if it is harsh.


----------



## Entropy3000

morituri said:


> Okay boys and girls its time to go to bed.


Just one more story!?


----------



## Tap1214

"Sorry guys. Was great through the confront. She denied everything, except wanting to piss me off, and just wanting to feel 
sexy, because we hadn't been intimate in so long. More later" ...

Gentlemen, I have a feeling they are in bed together and Shamwow is now putty in her hands. I bet $20 that he will NOT follow through his plan and that she's going to talk him out of it. Will be interesting what tomorrow brings ...


----------



## Almostrecovered

Whip Morgan said:


> I can't imagine anyone who has read TAM for more than a day is surprised that she denied. I don't think Sham was surprised, either. After everything he has discovered and all the straight talk he heard here, I don't imagine him caving in. I think he'll continue with the seperation, seems like he has a solid head on his shoulders.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


^^^^ This

although I can imagine him being very disappointed and depressed enough to not come here after his quick update, it's quite a traumatic experience


----------



## aeg512

With the info at hand it is hard to understand why he would cave. Most would not believe a word she would say. However, her statement that she just wanted to piss him off is very harsh and tells you a lot about her makeup. He should tell her it is hard to buy into her denial and tell her the only way he could is for her to take a polygraph. Otherwise just her saying she did all this to piss him off is enough to show that the marriage is very broken, if she wish to repair the poly is required. Wonder what her raction would be on that.


----------



## ManDup

Now it is time to follow the rest of the plan. She denied, lied, so now divorce. Start that ticking clock. Oh well. Long road ahead.


----------



## DanG

Or . . . Has this entire thread been a Sham? Wow!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating

Ok - a few thoughts for everyone and Shamwow,
In every story there are three sides - he said, she said and somewhere in between the real truth. We do not know her feelings about the marriage or what she saw as issues in the marriage. It is very possible she felt neglected, unloved, and unattractive if the marriage had fallen into robotoic sex and interactions. ANy woman who feels this way will try to voice her complaints. If they are being ignored in her mind, it is not unsual for a woman to try to spark jealousy or become sexier and not allow contact.
We don't know what happening except through Shamwow's eyes and thoughts which very well could have been believing everyhting was fine and hadn't picked up her signals. We are all guilty of that and sometimes it leads to affairs and sometimes it leads to the wife taking drastic measures to respark interest - Jealousy or getting sexy.

SO - none of us have the whole story or both sides of it. We do however have some clues - her coming home hotter than hell. Him not reading it and thinking she needs time to relax and rest. Her getting pissedand telling him she just doesn't feel it and he should have jumped bones immediately - sound like a distress flare to me!

Then it's all out there to find and he finds it. SHe knows it and continues the charade. Did she do anything - maybe, maybe not. No hard evidence she did but surely doubt which may have been exactly what she wanted to accomplish and is what she is saying now.

So - the chub is in the water and he's circling looking for the carcus. Then, damn near everyone on this site starts a feeding in the chub pool - got to be a body here somewhere?

Ever consider that all of you may have fallen for the bait she threw in the water for him?

Could be wrong. COuld she have done precisely that - hell yes. No hard evidence. 

Now it is up to Shamwow to read her and decide for himself. If I were in his shoes there are three things I would do.

Lay down boundaries regarding contact withteh suspected other man or any man for that matter.

Expect her to submit to complete transparency - she created the fear and suspicion, she needs to prove it's not real. If that means he needs polygraph, to be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing texts and mail - she needs to rebuild his trust as if a A happened.

Get in MC and stop the games FROM BOTH SIDES. Work on rebuilding the marriage into an honest one. This means BOTH need to understand their own issues and work on them - it takes to two and both need to look inside as well as understanding the other completely. May also need IC from both sides.

In any event, the sharks still tasting the chub need to get off him and let him do what he thinks is best and support him in doing it.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'll add from personal experience - travelling heavily creates the perfect circumstances for just be nice and robotic interactions. No discussions openly becuase time together is limited and niether party wants to piss of the other when they are apart......that is until one of them hits a wall with it.


----------



## DanG

Agreed - time, distance, lack of opportunity/opportunity are considerable issues in relationships. It is/was in mine! When I recently saw the movie "Donnie Brasco" I sat in amazement as I saw a near parallel of my relationship (and company gratitude) played out. There should be a section on this site entitled "Coping With Absent Spouses."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## meatloaf

8yearscheating said:


> Ok - a few thoughts for everyone and Shamwow,
> In every story there are three sides - he said, she said and somewhere in between the real truth. We do not know her feelings about the marriage or what she saw as issues in the marriage. It is very possible she felt neglected, unloved, and unattractive if the marriage had fallen into robotoic sex and interactions. ANy woman who feels this way will try to voice her complaints. If they are being ignored in her mind, it is not unsual for a woman to try to spark jealousy or become sexier and not allow contact.
> We don't know what happening except through Shamwow's eyes and thoughts which very well could have been believing everyhting was fine and hadn't picked up her signals. We are all guilty of that and sometimes it leads to affairs and sometimes it leads to the wife taking drastic measures to respark interest - Jealousy or getting sexy.
> 
> SO - none of us have the whole story or both sides of it. We do however have some clues - her coming home hotter than hell. Him not reading it and thinking she needs time to relax and rest. Her getting pissedand telling him she just doesn't feel it and he should have jumped bones immediately - sound like a distress flare to me!
> 
> Then it's all out there to find and he finds it. SHe knows it and continues the charade. Did she do anything - maybe, maybe not. No hard evidence she did but surely doubt which may have been exactly what she wanted to accomplish and is what she is saying now.
> 
> So - the chub is in the water and he's circling looking for the carcus. Then, damn near everyone on this site starts a feeding in the chub pool - got to be a body here somewhere?
> 
> Ever consider that all of you may have fallen for the bait she threw in the water for him?
> 
> Could be wrong. COuld she have done precisely that - hell yes. No hard evidence.
> 
> Now it is up to Shamwow to read her and decide for himself. If I were in his shoes there are three things I would do.
> 
> Lay down boundaries regarding contact withteh suspected other man or any man for that matter.
> 
> Expect her to submit to complete transparency - she created the fear and suspicion, she needs to prove it's not real. If that means he needs polygraph, to be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing texts and mail - she needs to rebuild his trust as if a A happened.
> 
> Get in MC and stop the games FROM BOTH SIDES. Work on rebuilding the marriage into an honest one. This means BOTH need to understand their own issues and work on them - it takes to two and both need to look inside as well as understanding the other completely. May also need IC from both sides.
> 
> In any event, the sharks still tasting the chub need to get off him and let him do what he thinks is best and support him in doing it.


you have a good opinion 8years. but what makes me confused is that he told that he would divorce her. but after that he will consider to Reconcile if she is remorse. if someone wanted divorce after know their spouse cheats then why bother to reconcile. do not exagerate divorce things if you are not firm to settle it. 

anyway good post 8years. i know that me and you are different. i will not continue the marriage after being betrayed and you are not like me. but you have good points on the above post.


----------



## meatloaf

Tap1214 said:


> "Sorry guys. Was great through the confront. She denied everything, except wanting to piss me off, and just wanting to feel
> sexy, because we hadn't been intimate in so long. More later" ...
> 
> Gentlemen, I have a feeling they are in bed together and Shamwow is now putty in her hands. I bet $20 that he will NOT follow through his plan and that she's going to talk him out of it. Will be interesting what tomorrow brings ...


on the spot .. this will prove that sham will become coward after being persuade by her ****ty mouth and body. afraid to leave her.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Did she do anything - maybe, maybe not. No hard evidence she did but surely doubt which may have been exactly what she wanted to accomplish and is what she is saying now.


For those of us who didn't serve on the OJ jury, we can confidently say that she had sex with at least one other man. Real life isn't a Scooby Doo show where his wife will pull her mask off and really it's Ashton Kutcher for an episode of Punked. Maybe SW will believe that she didn't sleep with other men. But that's only because he is heavily invested in her not sleeping with other men. To the rest of us, it's obvious.



8yearscheating said:


> Ever consider that all of you may have fallen for the bait she threw in the water for him?


:lol:
Right. You got us Ashton!



8yearscheating said:


> Could be wrong. COuld she have done precisely that - hell yes. No hard evidence.
> 
> Now it is up to Shamwow to read her and decide for himself. If I were in his shoes there are three things I would do.
> 
> Lay down boundaries regarding contact withteh suspected other man or any man for that matter.
> 
> Expect her to submit to complete transparency - she created the fear and suspicion, she needs to prove it's not real. If that means he needs polygraph, to be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing texts and mail - she needs to rebuild his trust as if a A happened.
> 
> Get in MC and stop the games FROM BOTH SIDES. Work on rebuilding the marriage into an honest one. This means BOTH need to understand their own issues and work on them - it takes to two and both need to look inside as well as understanding the other completely. May also need IC from both sides.


SW does need to set boundaries. He needs to read the 180 and start working the checklist. He needs to file for divorce to prove that he is serious. If his wife does the heavy lifting, call it off. If not, go ahead with it.

Assuming his wife agrees to reconcile, then he does need to verify whatever story she ends up going with. A polygraph is probably best for that.

Counseling would also be good for both of them.

However, insisting that SW is a part of the problem of the affair is just stupid. That's like blaming a rape victim for reacting to the rape badly. His wife already had her legs in the air by the time he figured out what she was up to.



8yearscheating said:


> In any event, the sharks still tasting the chub need to get off him and let him do what he thinks is best and support him in doing it.


I've seen nothing but support here for SW. But I really don't think it's helpful to tell a man whose wife is having an affair that his wife probably isn't having an affair, she's just messing with him. I think the truth is what is needed. Once SW knows the entire truth, he can decide whether he can handle it. If he lets his wife snow him and bully him into thinking, "Well, there is a .0001% chance she didn't do it, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt," then his wife won't respect him, he won't respect himself, and he won't have a satisfying marriage.


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## Whip Morgan

Perhaps Sham was emotionally exhausted last night and didn't have the energy to explain what happened. I think some people may be overlooking the fact that although Sham acted decisively (so far, by getting lawyers, moving etc.) this is still a man whose wife is having an affair and treating him in a dispicable manner (8YR, you have some good points, but I think you're off on this one). His world has been rocked, the woman he trusted to spend his life with has betrayed him. For all the advice he has gotten, it is important to remember that he is still human, and needs time to process events that have happened. 

We don't know what else was said by her. I think Sham will process what has happened and give us an update, hopefully soon. Too much outrageous behavior on her part for Sham to sweep under the rug, and I definitely don't believe this was a "test". If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a fuc*ing duck. 

How many times do people need to read threads on TAM to discover lots of WS follow a script, so closely related it can be scary? A common theme: denial upon confrontation. Now, I don't think Sham will cave. He has too much evidence against her. This isn't Law and Order, lets forgo the "circumstantial" talk. We all know whats going on, so does Sham. Now, Mrs. Sham realizes that he knows what she has been doing.


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## Whip Morgan

I also understand how some posters can appear to be rushing to judgment, either of the WS or the BS. I don't think its personal; I just think its posters here who see the same things, over and over:

"He/She wouldn't have the time for an affair"
"I don't want to snoop, it invades her/his privacy"
"They're just friends, but..."
"I begged and pleaded for him/her to stay"

Lots of posters have shared stories that are eerily similar to eachother, so they can spot the red flags in new posts from a mile away. I think that they can become used to the signs and behaviors related to infidelity - not immune - but perhaps better able to handle things related to infidelity. When posters share on another person's thread, it could come across as lacking compassion, or too straightforward, or as the "sharks in the water". I don't think thats the case, I think its more just people that have been around the block already.


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## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> I'll add from personal experience - travelling heavily creates the perfect circumstances for just be nice and robotic interactions. No discussions openly becuase time together is limited and niether party wants to piss of the other when they are apart......that is until one of them hits a wall with it.


:iagree:

This and with some it moves on to leading what amounts to a double life. One completey separate from their spouse while the one with their spouse all but goes dormant.


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## 8yearscheating

Lump - I agree all evidence points to there being an affair, but her story is not without possibility. Again - NONE of us know all the facts or the conditions leading up to this. I am not at all blaming Shamwow if she did have an affair. That decision was completely hers. BUT, the marriage is both of their responsibility and fixing it will take both of them wanting to and doing the work. In terms of the efffects on Shamwow if there was an affair, she needs to put her own issues second and help him rebuild his trust, security and love for her. But there is only so much she can do, she cannot fix him, he has to do that. Just like he cannot fix her, she has to do that. It all comes down to what Sham wants to do. Pushing any agenda until he decides only makes his job harder. He knows EVERYONES "OPINION". If he decides against the majority and the majority continues to hammer him, he will stop coming here.


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## Entropy3000

BTW this thread no matter where it goes from here has been very compelling. While it is of course primarily about the OP, it has been a venue for great discussion.


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## 8yearscheating

I agree whip, no one said what they did with the intention of doing harm and yes everyone is hypersensitive to the red flags which are common. That same hypersensitivity I compared to sharks and feeding frenzy not becuase I was calling people sharks, I was drawing analogy to being blinded by the red flags and missing the background story because of instinct and experiences - a group of sharks head to dump of chubb becuase the blood tells them there is food there, they are fooled by experience - everytime the have smellled blood before there is food. They were baited. Even after a dozen are hauled out of the water, the remaining sharks still plow through chub out of instinct. It is very possible she threw chub out to fire up Shamwow. AND we do not know the whole story.


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## 8yearscheating

I'll add that in my own situation, once I started examining my wifes reasoning - no matter how convuluted and self justifying for having an affair, I realized there were things I did that helped her to justify what she did. Was I to blame for her affair- absolutely not. Where there things I could have done early on to help her be less vulnerable and make our marriage something that gave her no excuses - absolutely. I began working on those immediately - IT TAKES TWO.


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## Gabriel

For a minute, I thought, geez, maybe she did concoct some stuff to get his attention. For example, she left her wedding ring behind and visible to him. Nobody does this by accident. Also, she kept going back and forth with the Vegas thing - it was weird. I'm going, now I'm not, now I am, don't come, wanna come? Just bizarre and not adding up.

However, I then remembered two key things that are not initiated or controlled by her.

First, this guy sent her porn. Big red flag there. Then, Sham found out this guy was in the next hotel over, away from her colleagues, lurking. He verified this by calling the hotel. So, what Sham needs to do (hello Sham, you there?) is confront her about those two things. I'd really like to hear how she responds to that.

And the whole victoria secret, waxing, etc, thing. I can't remember, were the trails to those things obvious? Like Entropy said, she did that to feel sexy, not to piss him off. What did she do with her new clothes and waxed body? My guess, honestly, is that she flaunted this in front of OM and either got rejected, or f*cked him and then got rejected. Or messed around with him but didn't get f*cked, and thus felt rejected. Hence the crying phone call.

So she laments Vegas, given the rejection. Should she still go? Her heart clearly wasn't in it anymore, but she decided to go anyway. Who knows what happened there.

100% agree this has been very compelling.


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## WhereAmI

I speak manipulation fluently. My assumption is the crying phone call was to a) make sure she could still tug on his heart strings and b) have a reasonable story to make that trip to Vegas. "I just needed to de-stress SW! You've been so distant these past few months and I felt so alone. Why won't you understand that I need time off too!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> I'll add that in my own situation, once I started examining my wifes reasoning - no matter how convuluted and self justifying for having an affair, I realized there were things I did that helped her to justify what she did. Was I to blame for her affair- absolutely not. Where there things I could have done early on to help her be less vulnerable and make our marriage something that gave her no excuses - absolutely. I began working on those immediately - IT TAKES TWO.


No. The loyal spouse is never to blame in any way shape or form. If you have allowed blame to be shifted on you, it is wrong. It is the responsibility of the unhappy spouse to constructively voice their issues, or end the relationship, and not to go off and cheat. Everyone knows this going in. Those who CHOOSE to follow that path are entirely to blame. I would never allow someone who reacts to unhappiness by cheating to remain in a relationship with me. 

Denial of reality by the loyal spouse is not helpful in reconciliation, though I believe reconciliation is not of much use anyway. Lots of fish in the sea, many of them don't cheat but find other ways to voice dissatisfaction. Encouraging Sham to deny reality is not helpful. 

No one outside of fiction goes to that much trouble to get their spouse's attention, especially if they are already disinterested. If anyone in reality DID do all that, they would go down as the most manipulative person in history. Use your words, people. On the other hand, many many people deny, deny, and deny while still in the fog. I'd bet my house on it in this case.


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## 8yearscheating

Again Man - I did not accept any responsibility for her affair and she clearly understands that. I did accept 1/2 of the responsibility for the problems in our marriage. While the two are separate they are intertwined. To ignore that fact means to me that I must be perfect. To ignore her feelings entirely means to me I am no better than her in her justifications to have an affair. To ignore that fact means you are not doing what is needed to make the marriage successful even without an A and may as well divorce.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Lump - I agree all evidence points to there being an affair, but her story is not without possibility. Again - NONE of us know all the facts or the conditions leading up to this.


It is true that none of us know the entire story. It is possible that SW is misrepresenting the situation. However, if he is telling us the truth about his side of things, then the possibility of her NOT having an affair is so remote as to be ridiculous.



8yearscheating said:


> I am not at all blaming Shamwow if she did have an affair. That decision was completely hers. BUT, the marriage is both of their responsibility and fixing it will take both of them wanting to and doing the work. In terms of the efffects on Shamwow if there was an affair, she needs to put her own issues second and help him rebuild his trust, security and love for her. But there is only so much she can do, she cannot fix him, he has to do that. Just like he cannot fix her, she has to do that.


I agree with this. In previous posts it sounded like you were either blaming SW for the affair by his actions post-discovery, or implying that, since SW didn't come clean with what he knew, they were both lying to each other and morally equivalent.



8yearscheating said:


> It all comes down to what Sham wants to do. Pushing any agenda until he decides only makes his job harder. He knows EVERYONES "OPINION". If he decides against the majority and the majority continues to hammer him, he will stop coming here.


My agenda is to help SW. And my advice is geared to help him achieve his desires. Sometimes, using blunt, but accurate, language such as "cuckold" is required to shock a nice-guy out of the fog of thinking his wife could never cheat and standing up for himself. I believe that, whether SW decides on D or R, standing up for himself is the best course of action for him.

Obviously, my advice is based on my understanding of women in general. I don't know his wife and her particular buttons/issues. However, as a consistent reader of these threads, I know that women in particular rarely act greatly different than women in general. There maybe a slight discrepancy here or there. But, a cheating woman is a pretty standard category and the standard advise is almost always warranted.


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## morituri

Two things to consider.

1. She doesn't respect him. *A wife who doesn't respect her husband neither loves him nor is sexually attracted to him*. No wife who respects her husband would do the things that Shamwow's wife has done to him. Like it or not *THAT is a fact*.

2. The divorce filing will either have two scenarios. She is going to show her true colors and continue behaving like a single woman or she is going to move heaven and earth to prove to him that she can become the wife he deserves. *Her actions are what Shamwow should judge whether she is worthy of him or not.*

I hope that Shamwow considers these two things to evaluate his marital situation.


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## AFEH

Can I suggest something guys? Just cool it, no more posting until Shamwow posts again out of respect for him.

See if you can do it.


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## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Perhaps Sham was emotionally exhausted last night and didn't have the energy to explain what happened. I think some people may be overlooking the fact that although Sham acted decisively (so far, by getting lawyers, moving etc.) this is still a man whose wife is having an affair and treating him in a dispicable manner (8YR, you have some good points, but I think you're off on this one). His world has been rocked, the woman he trusted to spend his life with has betrayed him. For all the advice he has gotten, it is important to remember that he is still human, and needs time to process events that have happened.
> 
> We don't know what else was said by her. I think Sham will process what has happened and give us an update, hopefully soon. Too much outrageous behavior on her part for Sham to sweep under the rug, and I definitely don't believe this was a "test". If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a fuc*ing duck.
> 
> How many times do people need to read threads on TAM to discover lots of WS follow a script, so closely related it can be scary? A common theme: denial upon confrontation. Now, I don't think Sham will cave. He has too much evidence against her. This isn't Law and Order, lets forgo the "circumstantial" talk. We all know whats going on, so does Sham. Now, Mrs. Sham realizes that he knows what she has been doing.


:iagree:

And I still say he does not need proof of sex. Even if by some miracle she did not, what she did was unfaithful. What she was doing to him was cruel. Giving the appearance of a PA hurts the same.

What did it for me is when he spoke with her and she told him point blank she was lying. She offerred up the mens names and then told him she needed some fun without him and he knows they have not been having fun. Also the OM being on the trip with her. 

All of this is unfaithful. Sex or no sex.

Perhaps she was mad because she does not think he has a say on her behavior. Sorry that is not a marriage.

This is disrespectful and emasculating to a man. A man's wife humiliating him in front of other men is very cruel. 

I think she is just positioning things in a powerplay for her marriage. i.e. she is going to do what she pleases and with whom she please. She is mad because he is trying to "control" her.

If there is any R, I would say she has to go NC with these other men AND she needs to stop travelling.


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## 8yearscheating

AFEH said:


> Can I suggest something guys? Just cool it, no more posting until Shamwow posts again out of respect for him.
> 
> See if you can do it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

Let me even break this down to its essence from my opinion.

If it were me:

Forget all of the evidence. ALL of it. If the following happened it would be a deal breaker to me. 

If my wife booked travel to Vegas without discussing with me and kept it a secret it would be a deal breaker. 

Forget the other men. Forget all of the other stuff.

I sure would never go on a secret trip to Vegas and hide it from my wife. That is unfaithful.

I say this because people are still saying that he does not know this or that. He knows what she told him and that alone, even if he believes her 100% is enough. She then goes on to say she did it to pi$$ him off. In other words, she did it to hurt him.

That is enough in my view.


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## tacoma

She waxed her snatch, packed $15k worth of lingerie and bolted to Vegas for a weekend with an OM leaving her wedding band on the desk.

You guys can rationalize or buy into her obvious BS or whatever you want but this would be a deal breaker for me.

It may not be for Shamwow.
We`ll see.


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## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> She waxed her snatch, packed $15k worth of lingerie and bolted to Vegas for a weekend with an OM leaving her wedding band on the desk.
> 
> You guys can rationalize or buy into her obvious BS or whatever you want but this would be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> It may not be for Shamwow.
> We`ll see.


I think she was able to have a good time for the most part even with the confrontation. One could only hope.

She just wanted to feel sexy and to pi$$ him off. No big deal.


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## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> Again Man - I did not accept any responsibility for her affair and she clearly understands that. I did accept 1/2 of the responsibility for the problems in our marriage. While the two are separate they are intertwined. To ignore that fact means to me that I must be perfect. To ignore her feelings entirely means to me I am no better than her in her justifications to have an affair. To ignore that fact means you are not doing what is needed to make the marriage successful even without an A and may as well divorce.


Gotcha. That's a good distinction.


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## Shamwow

Okay.

So when I came home last night she was on the phone and crying. I think, great, now I have to put the smackdown on her and she's already crying before I even start.

I waited til she was off the phone. Asked her what's wrong. Same crap as before...down about not getting next job. Whatever, I let it go. Poured a drink and went out back. She followed suit about 5 min later. She came out, smiled (still crying and puffy), comes in for a hug. I half reciprocated and said "welcome back".

20 min of small talk, I let her say whatever she wanted and didn't add much to the conversation or smile/laugh. She started to relax.

She said, "TELL me you wanna go out tonight."

I said, "not really". Then steeled up and jumped in. I said, "well, I wanna talk to you right now as that may determine whether or not I wanna go out tonight."

Her defenses go up and she says "oh great. Fine. Not what I wanted to do when I got home."

I went through pretty much exactly what I said I would say. She listened, cut me off a few times and I said "you said you would listen til I finished. Please". Had to do that a few times.

When given the chance to speak she kept saying "what do mean 'what's been going on'? I didn't do anything." I calmly said "I told you I know plenty. I know enough to be having this conversation".

Gave her several chances to open up. Finally I said, "okay, I'll start you off. Tell me when things started getting inappropriate with ____ ______."

She laughed. "_____? Nothing! He's like ____, just one of the guys. And like he'd even consider that with ME. Clearly NOBODY finds me attractive or wants me." I stared at her and said nothing. Finally I said, okay, tell me why he sent you porn, and why you didn't tell him to f**k off, then tell me immediately. How would that not be considered inappropriate? Porn's fine, I can dig it, but another man sending it to my WIFE is unacceptable, and he knows that, you know that, and you clearly didn't tell him to stop."

She said "I was on the road with all guys for 10 weeks! It was a joke! He's kind f a loser, he sends stupid s**t like that all the time!"

I said, "to everybody? Or just you." 

She said "well, I guess that was just to me." 

I said "how is that not a huge deal? And a huge breach of another person's marriage? Porn? What would you think if a girl was sending me porn?"

She agreed that looked bad, and then started shutting off. She's like "just tell me what your attorney ha planned. Awesome. So you get all the money, I have no car, and I'm stuck with this f***ing house. In MY NAME. Great. Just tell me where to sign, I'm sure your ATTORNEY has great plans for me."

Then she got up and went inside.

I waited a while, then went in to continue. (prob shouldn't have) she was crying and turned off completely for a while. I said "I told you I don't WANT to do this, I just feel I have no choice. Instead of respecting me when I told you about my concerns last week you didn't do everything in your power to show me I was wrong. You did the opposite, you took the lingerie you said you wouldn't take, you left your ring and you told me you were going to Vegas anyway. If you brought up serious and valid concerns about me lying and acting disrespectfully and unfaithfully, I'd move heaven and earth to prove to you that wasn't the case. You should've done that, but instead you tried to make me even more suspicious."

She agreed, and then threw a few more attorney comments and "where do I sign" zingers at me. (she was REALLY pissed that I actually saw an attorney)

Then I got soft. I realized, I have to walk away and file right now, and she's saying she wants to sign. I got scared. I backed off a little again and said nothing has been filed. You treated me horribly before you left, and I needed you to know how much that hurt me. Don't want to divorce, but don't want our marriage to be like this, and you need to know how important this is to me.

She started telling me how she just felt so ugly and no one can love her, and great, she's 36 now and I have no hope of ever getting laid again. No one can love me. (crying...really hard to watch)

Told her of course she's sexy as he'll and I've been coming at her like a bull for months and she's pushed me away. I WANT to show you what you're working with, give you all of what you need. Just let me in.

Then I said just come over here and tell me you're sorry for everything you've done and that you understand how and why I reacted the way I did. I'll tell you I'm sorry for taking steps that hurt you in return, hug me and we'll forgive this s**t and move on with our lives together. That's all I want right now. I want to trust you but you have to show me you realiZe what a huge deal this is and take steps to make it right. (balls being inserted back back into her purse here, I know)

She said she wanted to, but will, can't get there in 5 mins.

Annnnnnnd, then we went out, got drunk and pretended everything was alright. I stayed at home last night. Did not have sex. Did not want to, but have to admit I may have given in if SE had offered, felt like a wuss, but it felt hood for both of us to just have fun. Of course woke up in the morning and felt like a dumba**.

Found a pair of panties that are crusty, just before she put in the wash. I have them. This could be huge. If it comes back positive, I will walk HARD. If not, I don't know what to do now. 

More later, sure i left out a lot here, just wanted to get this out while I could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Lots of interesting theorys here.

What I am wondering is this? 

How convenient would this be: Maybe things with the other men did not work out the way she wanted. 

They hit it and quit it?

She comes back home, denies everything.

But she knows whether she did something or not, it all looks bad. 

So she admits she was PURPOSEFULLY trying to piss him off. 

She really knows how to work all angles doesn't she?

Hope OP comes back to update us soon.

I think no matter what he decides, we need to be respectful of his feelings and his decision.


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## Whip Morgan

"Found a pair of panties that are crusty, just before she put in the wash. I have them. This could be huge. If it comes back positive, I will walk HARD. If not, I don't know what to do now. "


Dude.

Unless she has a medical condition, you know what that is. The thing is, you know what she was up to, even if you didn't find these. 

You're marriage is in full-blown crisis mode and your answer to that is go out, get drunk and have a good time while ignoring everything? Was it your intent to reward her for her outrageous behavior? 

No, it wasn't, of course it wasn't. However, how much of the advice you received in this 45+ page monster thread advocated this action? You can't blame this on your wife Sham, this lack of conviction rests squarely on your shoulders. 

I understand that you're mind is spinning and emotions are off the charts, but that was a bad move. Rug sweeping for sure. I'd keep trucking along with your legal options. She was arrogant enough to throw it in your face. You stated yourself that your balls are back in her purse. Don't you want them back?


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## Shamwow

Found the panties an hour ago. Not last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan

The recovered underwear is not the lynchpin to all of this.


----------



## seeking sanity

You did great. Well not great, but you got through it. Ease up on yourself. You have three choices now:

1. Denial, which leads to anxiety and misery.
2. Go low and seek out more proof. Tap her phone, key logger, VAR, get the panties tested for semen, etc.
3. 180. If you stay in the house then you don't engage her, but yet is to leave and stop contact until you get some honesty. The 180 is not to manipulate her. It is to give you back personal control. It is for your own mental health to escape the manipulation and mind*ck.


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## thecw

Been reading this thread from the beginning. 

Shamwow, clearly your wife has been deceitful and manipulative. Come on. I know you still care for her, and I don't blame you. But you had your proof she has been cheating on you long ago. Your wife is 36 and entering her sexual prime, on the road frequently with other men, and your sexlife went cold (not your fault). It's not out of bounds to think, that these things coupled with her deceitful behavior, other men have enjoyed your wife in bed. 

She wants to have her fun on the road, and have her security husband at home. Good deal for her.

The only one question is: are you going to accept this? Bear in mind this will never stop. She opened pandora's box (sexual extra-marital flings) and it's simply a matter of time, desire, and opportunity before she does it again, even if she vowed to you today to never do it again in her life. She will.

1. accept her behavior: and live a life of never having her all
2. do not accept her behavior: divorce her, try to mend


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## sam83

No no no she controlled the whole scene man damn it how could u let her do this that's not the plan u told us about man what happened to the original brilliant plan ha what happened ????


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## thecw

Shamwow, the crusty panties angle shows you're in denial of things. You know deep inside she has done the deed. 

I know it's hard to make a decision that is so final by divorcing her. Many men are unable to and choose to live a life of fantasy thinking their wives are actually devoted to them. Ignorance is bliss for some.


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## Whip Morgan

He isn't a coward. This is a man going through the agony produced from infidelity. And reconciliation is possible.

However, the entire "confrontation" as written by Sham, to me, appears to have been entirely controlled by his wife. This underwear thing may not prove she was fuc*ing another guy(s), then again it could. However, there is more than enough stacked against her already. This isn't Law and Order!


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## WhereAmI

Shes great at manipulating you. What man can handle his wife saying that she's not attractive? She was also able to call your bluff on the divorce papers. Want to know a secret? If she loves you, she was bluffing about signing. She's now confident that she can keep you where she wants you. You need to step up with clear boundaries or she's going to detach even more.

Don't beat yourself up. It's hard to believe the woman that once loved you with all her heart could be this person. Every piece of you wants to believe she's still that beautiful person you married. No one gets through these situations doing everything 100% right. You need to get back on track ASAP though. Your marriage depends on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thecw

WhereAmI said:


> You need to get back on track ASAP though. Your marriage depends on it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More important than his marriage, his sanity and job depend on it. I have no doubt that his work has taken a dive since this all started. Sooner or later it will put his job in jeopardy.


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## meatloaf

Whip Morgan said:


> He isn't a coward. This is a man going through the agony produced from infidelity. And reconciliation is possible.
> 
> However, the entire "confrontation" as written by Sham, to me, appears to have been entirely controlled by his wife. This underwear thing may not prove she was fuc*ing another guy(s), then again it could. However, there is more than enough stacked against her already. This isn't Law and Order!


not to offend you whip but i assume he is coward because he said that he will divorce her knowing for her infidelity. seeing the attorney to file but after that he came with wanting to reconsider to work things out if she is remorseful. never said divorce if you do not dare to do it.

about agony, well i could agree and my conclusion is that he is the one who can not control himself going through this situation. and i am sure at the end he will still love this **** and do everything to forgive her which means she is in control of him. i am very sorry for every coward man in this world.


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## Entropy3000

She knows that a good defense is a good offense. You had her on the ropes and you let her off, because when she was out of answers she defended her self by saying where do I sign. That is a very guilty response.

Also you did not mention the OM being on her trip in the hotel next door.

BUT again, you askingnher to come home and not go to Vegas and her telling you she was going anyway with two guys is a deal breaker.

Now, I gotta tell ya. If I am on a road trip, my wife meets me at the airport wearing something sexy. We may or may stop off dfor something to eat on the way home. if she is only wearing one of my dress shirts with many buttons unbuttoned and nothing else on, then we go through drive through and go home.

In any event we are not going out. We are either headed right to bed or on the table or maybe we take a shower together and then have sex.

Then if she wanted to go out I might want to go out.

Her language infers that you have been neglecting her sexually. Again taking the offense. I think it at least tells me that you should have been taking care of business in between these trips. I am not saying rape her, but you should have made a point of ravaging her a bit. Never let a wife go on a long trip if she is leaving sexually frustrated. 

There is little doubt she is meeting her needs else where. 

But again she knew she could bnlow you off, have her fun ( sex ), and wrap you aroun d her finger. She will be back giggling at you real soon. 

If this OM is a loser why is she going to Vegas with him? Why is he following her on her gigs?


She has no boundaries. You guys dod not setup appropriate boundaries and agree to them. But that said, she knew how you felt. She does not care for you enough. She does not respect you. She is going to have her fun AND have you at home too. That is her goal. 

You absolutely should have had her sign the papers when she said she would sign. She called your bluff.

Never threaten divorce unless you are following through.

Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to pull the trigger.

Words to live by.


----------



## sam83

Whip Morgan said:


> He isn't a coward. This is a man going through the agony produced from infidelity. And reconciliation is possible.
> 
> However, the entire "confrontation" as written by Sham, to me, appears to have been entirely controlled by his wife. This underwear thing may not prove she was fuc*ing another guy(s), then again it could. However, there is more than enough stacked against her already. This isn't Law and Order!


yes he is not a coward but he destroyed the great plan by letting her control it R is possible if she comes clean and stop manipulation


----------



## Amplexor

This thread has been pruned a couple of times. Keep it respectful.


----------



## thecw

Angel5112 said:


> I too have read this whole thread and sham is not a coward. He is a man who wants to believe the best in the woman he married. Ease up. He obviously loves her otherwise they would not be married and he would not be as torn as he is. I can't imagine it would be easy to just walk away from a person you truly love, no matter what they did. Love is never black and white, neither is infidelity.
> 
> I understand you are all just trying to give him "tough love" but calling him a coward is just rude IMO.


Speaking for myself, I do not doubt Sham's love for this woman one bit. In fact, its apparent he loves her beyond words. 

What I do see is his wife wronging him, controlling the situation once she gets home, and Sham trying to believe that maybe, just maybe his wife is being honest. It wouldn't take crusty panties for me to know what's going on in this matter.

As a side note, the fact they went out and got drunk, were both human skin bags of a wicked concoction of hormones and alcohol and she didn't come onto him when they got home like a rabbit in heat is puzzling to say the least. I chalk it up to her guilt, or she simply had her fill in Vegas and needs a vacation away from sex for a few days.


----------



## aug

What does a crusty panty mean?

Test for semen? If positive, that's dangerous for you (STD, hepatitis, etc). No condom used?

If no semen, then she was excited for quite a while.

She's good. I am impressed.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'll repeat what I said earlier FOR Shamwow:
Now it is up to Shamwow to read her and decide for himself. If I were in his shoes there are three things I would do.

Lay down boundaries regarding contact with the suspected other man or any man for that matter.

Expect her to submit to complete transparency - she created the fear and suspicion, she needs to prove it's not real. If that means he needs polygraph, to be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing texts and mail - she needs to rebuild his trust as if a A happened.

Get in MC and stop the games FROM BOTH SIDES. Work on rebuilding the marriage into an honest one. This means BOTH need to understand their own issues and work on them - it takes to two and both need to look inside as well as understanding the other completely. May also need IC from both sides.

In any event EVERYONE needs to get off him and let him do what he thinks is best and support him in doing it. He has heard every possible explanation and opinion already - he has so much shock therapy from everyone he's lucky he's still here. If you can't help him with what HE wants to do - go scream at the mirror. He does not need any more comments about his manhood or his decisions. His self esteem is already in the crapper.

In my estimation he did a great job and manned up more than most. What he did took courage and lot of self control. Put those thoughts about your balls being in her purse in the disposall. YOU DID GREAT!!!
__________________


----------



## the guy

Yes womens panties will have discharge for many reasons that is why you must take them to a lab and have them tested for semen.

Depending on the amount of discharge, will determine the amout of time it will takes, In my case they were inconclusive so they were retested that took 3 weeks. Unfortinately they were still inconclusive for treases of seman.

Semen can stay in her for up to six weeks so if thats a factor your may be screwed a DNA test are another cost and time, alot of time....


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, how this went down is pretty understandable. Emotions get in the way of logic all the time. She is denying everything. She's very much like my wife in the way she can manipulate situations to make you feel like the bad guy, and her the victim.

The whole, I'm not attractive to anyone thing, is total bullsh*t. She is trying to get out of what you are confronting her about, and turning this on you. She's really a piece of work.

Getting drunk with her was a big mistake though. Up until that point, I could sympathize with your responses to her manipulations. She is probably smiling inside, thinking she got away with everything. You need to keep pressing her, hard. Panties or no panties. 

It's time for HER to work, not you. By throwing this whole "I'm ugly" bit at you, she's trying to make YOU work to convince HER to stay with you. F that. I take option 3 above, and go cold, and continue to confront. And stop drinking alcohol for awhile.


----------



## thecw

Gabriel said:


> Sham, how this went down is pretty understandable. Emotions get in the way of logic all the time. She is denying everything. She's very much like my wife in the way she can manipulate situations to make you feel like the bad guy, and her the victim.
> 
> The whole, I'm not attractive to anyone thing, is total bullsh*t. She is trying to get out of what you are confronting her about, and turning this on you. She's really a piece of work.
> 
> Getting drunk with her was a big mistake though. Up until that point, I could sympathize with your responses to her manipulations. She is probably smiling inside, thinking she got away with everything. You need to keep pressing her, hard. Panties or no panties.
> 
> It's time for HER to work, not you. By throwing this whole "I'm ugly" bit at you, she's trying to make YOU work to convince HER to stay with you. F that. I take option 3 above, and go cold, and continue to confront. And stop drinking alcohol for awhile.


I have the same sentiments as Gabriel, for the most part. Though, I feel that at this point, given her read on Shamwow's actions last night, that if Shamwow presses her any further she will threaten divorce on him and completely turn the tables as a powerful and swift strategy to stonewall the inquisition. Shamwow will then be put on the defensive and be the one having to work for the relationship or sign papers.


----------



## Entropy3000

Part of her saying she is ugly is also to throw suspicion off of her.
She just went to Vegas with two guys and would not let her husband come along.

It also sets you up for when you find out she did have sex. She will just say that you made her feel ugly and she needed a man to have her to save her self worth and prove to herself she was not ugly. That you should have done your husbandly duties and you caused her to submit to another man. She will also say they were drunk. And that it did not mean anything because he is a loser.

It works both ways. Smoke screen. Trust me she is telling the OM the same thing about you except they are having fun.


----------



## aug

Shamwow, I would suggest you take some time to think. You are being hit from many directions, and it cant be easy.


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> I have the same sentiments as Gabriel, for the most part. Though, I feel that at this point, given her read on Shamwow's actions last night, that if Shamwow presses her any further she will threaten divorce on him and completely turn the tables as a powerful and swift strategy to stonewall the inquisition. Shamwow will then be put on the defensive and be the one having to work for the relationship or sign papers.


:iagree:

She reveresed the leverage. She will not reveal anything, she will not be remorseful, she will not have better boundaries and she will not have more respect for him. She has no incentive to change her behavior. In fact she will insist becasue of his controlling behavior and insecurities that she will continue to plan out her schedule in secrecy to him.

If she and the OM have not broken up and she and Sham do not have wild passionate sex pretty soon she will be needing her OM very much. That other gig will suddenly be on again ( maybe not for real ) and she will be travellin to the OMs city. In fact he will hear about it from a text message. Gig is back on ... at the airport ... see ya when I see ya.


----------



## meatloaf

just wait and see the update from shamwow

at this point i am getting to lose interest of his action


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## Entropy3000

meatloaf said:


> just wait and see the update from shamwow
> 
> at this point i am getting to lose interest of his action


Yeah the opanties thing would only prove a positve. he should do it, but a negative changes nothing. I think if he gets a negative he is likely to use that as an excuse for himself to back down.

AIf he is going to back down, he needs to be having passionate sex with his wife.

So divorce her or take her to bed.


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## 8yearscheating

More conjecture. Ever hear of a woman who loses self image and self confidence and doesn't think she attractive to anyone. I have, my wife. I think thisis the primary reason wives are easy targets for smooth talking, confidence building scumbag OM's. They look for this in a woman and target them specifically - easy marks.

The man has decided to R, quit disrespecting his choices and HIS WIFE.


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## golfergirl

Entropy3000 said:


> Yeah the opanties thing would only prove a positve. he should do it, but a negative changes nothing. I think if he gets a negative he is likely to use that as an excuse for himself to back down.
> 
> AIf he is going to back down, he needs to be having passionate sex with his wife.
> 
> So divorce her or take her to bed.


Oh Sham! What happened - happened. What do you want to do now? Are you happy with, 'say you sowwy and I will and wets just forget it?'. 

What next? Are you satisfied with her answers? Does it make sense to you that you've been coming on to her for months now but SHE feels ugly? Was it an oversite that she forgot to tell you she was tacking on 3 extra days to itinerary to party with other men? Even more telling - her response is she's old and will never get laid again. All about her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sam83

8yearscheating said:


> More conjecture. Ever hear of a woman who loses self image and self confidence and doesn't think she attractive to anyone. I have, my wife. I think thisis the primary reason wives are easy targets for smooth talking, confidence building scumbag OM's. They look for this in a woman and target them specifically - easy marks.
> 
> The man has decided to R, quit disrespecting his choices and HIS WIFE.


R on what basis 8 years he got nothing yet I don't think u want him to start already without her committed 100 % to this


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## SadSamIAm

Shamwow, I could see this coming. We are weak. We love our women to a fault. We trust too much.

You need to have another discussion with her. You need to give her all the 'red flags' (including OM in next door Hotel - even though she will say their were no rooms available in the companies Hotel). You need to tell her that your trust is gone because of these red flags that she has explained away. She has already admitted these things don't look good for her. That the only way to regain your trust is for her to submit to a polygraph test. 

Her reaction should tell you your answer. If she adamantly refuses, then she is hiding something. 

You may fall for what she is saying. It might even be the truth. But you need to protect yourself. You need to monitor as closely as possible what she is up to (VARs, checking texts, computers, etc.).

I wish you the best.


----------



## thecw

8yearscheating said:


> More conjecture. Ever hear of a woman who loses self image and self confidence and doesn't think she attractive to anyone. I have, my wife. I think thisis the primary reason wives are easy targets for smooth talking, confidence building scumbag OM's. They look for this in a woman and target them specifically - easy marks.
> 
> The man has decided to R, quit disrespecting his choices and HIS WIFE.


There is no disrespect, just differing opinions. If we are all to agree with Shamwow's actions or opinion then what is the point of the discussion in this thread?

And as far as a woman who loses self-image, self-confidence, and coincidentally finds herself in the arms of another man rediscovering herself because her husband forced her to---it's a load of crock. I'm sure countless women claim it, and countless men look past it. But that doesn't make it valid. It's a built-in excuse for women to stray and not harbor the guilt of the hurt they cause. They have fun, blame-shift, and life goes on.

Ever heard of a guy that lost his self-image, self-confidence, and slept with another woman because his wife forced him to? Doesn't quite as easily work the other way does it? Might be worth a try for any guy in a bind one day.


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## 8yearscheating

Never said cheating was ok or should be accepted. I did say he should polygraph and expect answers I also said the feelings she expressed are precisely what makes women vulnerable to an affair and DID NOT say he was responsible for feeling that way. Quit twisting and adding to what I say. Some of you could be Obama's speech writer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thecw

SadSamIAm said:


> That the only way to regain your trust is for her to submit to a polygraph test.
> 
> Her reaction should tell you your answer. If she adamantly refuses, then she is hiding something.


Not only will she adamantly refuse a polygraph, she'll probably laugh hysterically, blame-shift, and assert Shamwow needs "help" for his insecurity issues and suggest that is what is driving the marriage to a slow death and why she has had to maintain secrecy on parts of her life. He made her become that.

Sound familiar to any of you guys?

Instead of opening the phone book and looking for an apartment to move into, Shamwow may be looking for a therapist to appease his wife, even worse is if he actually believes her.

I know it's hard Shamwow. I speak from experience, unfortunately.


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## Ticonderoga

Is this like the CNN fill in where the newscasters keeping talking while waiting for something new to happen ??


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## thecw

Ticonderoga said:


> Is this like the CNN fill in where the newscasters keeping talking while waiting for something new to happen ??


Yes. Wolf Blitzer here reporting...

(cool name by the way for a middle linebacker)


----------



## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> More conjecture. Ever hear of a woman who loses self image and self confidence and doesn't think she attractive to anyone. I have, my wife. I think thisis the primary reason wives are easy targets for smooth talking, confidence building scumbag OM's. They look for this in a woman and target them specifically - easy marks.
> 
> The man has decided to R, quit disrespecting his choices and HIS WIFE.


The denial is strong in this one. I don't mean disrespect, but I am curious. Do you think a certain level of denial is necessary for a successful reconciliation? Did you ever have proof positive? If not, would seeing your W in bed with another man (actually doing the deed, so there's no doubt of course) have changed your desire to reconcile? 

I mean, he said he's done if physical affair happened. He just reiterated that with the panties thing. To me that doesn't sound like someone who wants to reconcile.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I fully expect her to blame shift when he suggests the polygraph. 

He can simply say yes. He probably is insecure. Yes, he should trust her. Yes she is right. Admit he is the problem. Promise to do whatever to overcome his insecurity issues.

All she has to do is take a polygraph. It is the least she can do for the thousands of dollars she just spent. This is one thing she can do for him.

Once she takes the polygraph and passes, then he can start on fixing himself.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I had a full confession - after some trickle truth and she continued to answer questions from there. I know he says he would be done if it was PA. But I always believed the same thing. When faced with the full reality, it was very hard to want to stay in the marriage. I decided I loved her too much to quit adn if she did the right things we could work through it. She did and we still are. Everyone has their own limits and I don't think anyone can really know what those are till they are in the moment of decision. I agree it doesn't disappear and can't and MUST not be swept under the rug - that pink elephant will always be in the room if you do that. But you can work THROUGH it and heal yourself.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'm one of the old man hecklers from the muppets when I'm not playing animal!


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> More conjecture. *Ever hear of a woman who loses self image and self confidence and doesn't think she attractive to anyone.* I have, my wife. I think thisis the primary reason wives are easy targets for smooth talking, confidence building scumbag OM's. They look for this in a woman and target them specifically - easy marks.
> 
> The man has decided to R, quit disrespecting his choices and HIS WIFE.


I don't think we need any one disrespected here. I don't think posters should be attacking each other. Telling someone to stop posting is very disrespectful. Like your opinion is the only valuable one. I may or may not agree with you, but trust me, I am listening. Typically I agree with much of what you say. What I don't agree with I do think about. 

If anything I am advising the man to either love his wife completely or move on. I think that is a valid opinion. Don't lead life in between. I am suggesting he not leave his wife vulnerable is being unfaithful. Not saying it is his fault. But it is not a good strategy to not not have intimacy especially when one spouse is on the road and acting in an unfaithful manner. I am talking about marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> There is no disrespect, just differing opinions. *If we are all to agree with Shamwow's actions or opinion then what is the point of the discussion in this thread?*
> 
> And as far as a woman who loses self-image, self-confidence, and coincidentally finds herself in the arms of another man rediscovering herself because her husband forced her to---it's a load of crock. I'm sure countless women claim it, and countless men look past it. But that doesn't make it valid. It's a built-in excuse for women to stray and not harbor the guilt of the hurt they cause. They have fun, blame-shift, and life goes on.
> 
> Ever heard of a guy that lost his self-image, self-confidence, and slept with another woman because his wife forced him to? Doesn't quite as easily work the other way does it? Might be worth a try for any guy in a bind one day.


Yes, there needs to be a forum where people can talk about marriage and discuss differing opinions and exchange ideas ... oh wait. This is it!

I would like to help out but I am mainly here to learn.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Drop the guns Entropy, it was a general statement and not directed at you. I never said don't post - I said stop the disrespect for what Sham wants and his wife. Saying what she said is bullsh!t and she is coniving to do X to get him means someone is reading her mind. I's like that talent but I don't think it exists.

con·jec·ture/kənˈjekCHər/Noun: An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
Verb: Form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.


----------



## morituri

While I had hoped that Shamwow would have used the tough love approach that many of us advocated here, I cannot fault him for handling things differently. When I filed for divorce from my ex-wife, it was one of the most emotionally painful decisions of my life.

It's very easy to criticize a betrayed spouse for lacking the emotional fortitude because we don't have the emotional investment in that unfaithful spouse.

We can critique the delivery of the message but not the messenger for being human. As far as I'm concerned, Shamwow can still triumph over this ordeal despite the setback.


----------



## PHTlump

Sorry it didn't go as planned. That's some of the power of going dark. It lets the wife wonder what's going on and get all worked up and you aren't making any mistakes and letting her off the hook.

So you let her take the initiative and you got off script. You know that. You engaged her on discussing specific points of, "Explain this and then explain that." That's a losing strategy because you're only asking about what you know and you really want to believe the unbelievable.

It's understandable that you failed the confrontation test. That was the hardest thing you ever had to do and she was ready for it. It's like fighting an MMA champion. The best advice is, don't do it. So, you need to get back on script. You can still stand up for yourself. It's just going to take a little time.

First, get the panties tested ASAP.
Use CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit for Semen-Sperm Stain Detection. or your lawyer may know a local lab.

We all know what the results will be. Are you really serious about walking if there is semen in them? When you were sure that she was physical in Vegas, you were still willing to reconcile. This would only confirm what you thought yesterday.

What you need to work on is not being afraid to lose her. If you're scared of losing her, then you rush to comfort her after she's betrayed you. If you're not scared, you stand back and invite her to do the work of regaining your trust. If she can't or won't, then you walk with your dignity.

Read the 180 and start it today.
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forums: Divorce busting 180 degree list

Basically, stop reassuring her. She's testing you. When she says she's unlovable, she's expecting you to start telling her how wonderful she is. And this is right after she has betrayed you with other men! You should either stay silent or say that she would be more lovable if she were more faithful. If she walks away crying, let her go. Don't go after her trying to get her to stop crying. You want her crying. Call her on her crap! She's begging you to.

Also, check out Athol Kay's blog and try to take some things from him.
Married Man Sex Life

Good luck.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Drop the guns Entropy, it was a general statement and not directed at you. I never said don't post - I said stop the disrespect for what Sham wants and his wife. Saying what she said is bullsh!t and she is coniving to do X to get him means someone is reading her mind. I's like that talent but I don't think it exists.
> 
> con·jec·ture/kənˈjekCHər/Noun: An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
> Verb: Form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.


I grok.

grok Verb/gräk/
1. Understand (something) intuitively or by empathy.
2. Empathize or communicate sympathetically; establish a rapport.

I think most of the folks who have followed this thread give a darn for Sham. I love happy endings. No pun intended. Also I am one for lessons learned. It is not intended to be disrespectful to an OP. We try to apply the lessons from this. Now this is by no means over. Quite often we are left where we are now as the final information. Who knows if Sham will want to keep us informed. I hope he does. Not just out of curious interest but again this thread has been so compelling I think there is something to be learned from this ... and yet to come.

We all process information differently. We for the most part in our lives we have to function with incomplete information. 

The Byzantine Generals problem is always of interest in complex scenarios. We have that here.

The key to that is being able to make decsions with partial or unreliable knowledge.


----------



## Ticonderoga

Has Shamwow gone dark on his loyal followers ??


----------



## PHTlump

Unfortunately, his wife is home without a next job, so he's probably occupied and unable to post constantly.


----------



## BenDEBONAIR

PHTlump said:


> Sorry it didn't go as planned. That's some of the power of going dark. It lets the wife wonder what's going on and get all worked up and you aren't making any mistakes and letting her off the hook.
> 
> So you let her take the initiative and you got off script. You know that. You engaged her on discussing specific points of, "Explain this and then explain that." That's a losing strategy because you're only asking about what you know and you really want to believe the unbelievable.
> 
> It's understandable that you failed the confrontation test. That was the hardest thing you ever had to do and she was ready for it. It's like fighting an MMA champion. The best advice is, don't do it. So, you need to get back on script. You can still stand up for yourself. It's just going to take a little time.
> 
> First, get the panties tested ASAP.
> Use CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit for Semen-Sperm Stain Detection. or your lawyer may know a local lab.
> 
> We all know what the results will be. Are you really serious about walking if there is semen in them? When you were sure that she was physical in Vegas, you were still willing to reconcile. This would only confirm what you thought yesterday.
> 
> What you need to work on is not being afraid to lose her. If you're scared of losing her, then you rush to comfort her after she's betrayed you. If you're not scared, you stand back and invite her to do the work of regaining your trust. If she can't or won't, then you walk with your dignity.
> 
> Read the 180 and start it today.
> Marriage Builders® Discussion Forums: Divorce busting 180 degree list
> 
> Basically, stop reassuring her. She's testing you. When she says she's unlovable, she's expecting you to start telling her how wonderful she is. And this is right after she has betrayed you with other men! You should either stay silent or say that she would be more lovable if she were more faithful. If she walks away crying, let her go. Don't go after her trying to get her to stop crying. You want her crying. Call her on her crap! She's begging you to.
> 
> Also, check out Athol Kay's blog and try to take some things from him.
> Married Man Sex Life
> 
> Good luck.


They got drunk together. SMH :-(
Final score: Mr. Sham=-3 Mrs. Sham=+10
#powergames
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

Entropy3000 said:


> I grok.
> 
> grok Verb/gräk/
> 1. Understand (something) intuitively or by empathy.
> 2. Empathize or communicate sympathetically; establish a rapport.


That's enough of the Martian speak, Entropy. We've moved on to Firefly speak. Are you Shiny?

By the way, Shamwow, here's another poster wishing you peace and calm through this decision. When love and emotions are involved, our resolve falters because we have a heart.


----------



## piqued

I understand the emotion, I understand in your heart of hearts that you want your wife and you want it to work out.

However, your wife is a manipulator. She used her verbal and nonverbal cues (that she knows will work on you) and she controlled the meeting. She got exactly what she wanted. And you still have a wife. But, its a wife that is out playing with other guys and lying about it. If that's what you really want, if you want to be cuckold (and maybe you do, some guys are ok with that) then stick around. If that isn't for you then by staying all you are doing is inviting more of the same.

I'll support you in whatever you do, but you should be aware women like this (your wife) exist and they will walk all over you if you let them.


----------



## thecw

I think it's fair to say we all want this to work out well for Shamwow. And if any one of us could we would restore his wife back to factory settings from their wedding day.

What seems like "tough love" by some, or even something interpreted as disrespect, is just a collective pool of experience, wisdom, and learning the hard way that we're trying to steer Shamwow away from. 

In the end, most of us will do what we want to do and learn from the school of hard knocks.


----------



## Stonewall

Sham,

I just want the best for you buddy, I'm afraid she is manipulating you terribly. Please get the drawers tested. I can not believe that she is not cheating on you. From a 3rd person objective standpoint; if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a damn duck!!!!! That being said if you are determined to try and work this out with her then I support you but I really think you are being played.


----------



## Haz

Shamwow:

I am very sorry for your pain. Her behavior is ugly almost beyond words.

So why is she behaving that way? There are basically two possibilities. The first is that she doesn't care about you or the marriage. If that is the case, then you know what you need to do. Don't walk, run!

The second possibility is that she does care, but is caught in the high and is confident that she can manage you.

If I had to guess from what you've posted, I'd say it is the second. And you know what--she's right. She can manage you. There is no shame in that. It is a basic reality of your relationship. 

You can decide for your own health that you cannot be in a relationship with this power imbalance. Or the two of you can somehow get to a place where you both manage the imbalance in a way that no one gets hurt (which is NOT where you are now). Over time perhaps you can diminish the imbalance, but you are so outmatched at present that there will I suspect always be some imbalance. Anyone who tells you to "Man up!" is a fool. You are a man, and a good, level headed one. But you are not in her league where manipulation is concerned. Please remember that just because she is stronger in this way, that does not make you weak.

So there is a way forward, but it involves recognizing the present imbalance. You can be managed, and she is capable of doing so in the most hurtful of ways.

I have read your whole thread pretty much in real time. There were only really two decision points. The first was when you decided to forgo a PI in Vegas and try instead to talk her out of going. I admired your willingness to try to bring her around, and I don't think you did any harm. You could have handed her a video of her and the two guys going at it, and she would still have managed you last night.

The second decision point was deciding to stay for a conversation rather than leaving your note, the rings, and the divorce papers. Your heart was in the right place, but this was a critical mistake. Because you cannot be managed when you are not present. She needed to feel the loss without experiencing the power to prevent it. Had you gone dark, and had you consistently thereafter left her presence whenever she tried to manage you, you might have been able to make the connection in her brain between managing you and losing you. Remember, you cannot fight off her attempts to manage you. You can only leave

So there is a road forward, but it involves recognizing that she has power over you that you will not change, at least not easily or quickly. The first thing that you must do is determine whether she cares about you or the marriage. In order to do that you probably need to leave. If you can do so while monitoring what she is up to, all the better. But she has to come after you. If she does, then you can set conditions, including all the one's that have been discussed. But you must both also train yourselves to recognize when she is managing you, and you must train her to abstain from doing it by being ready to leave. This is the core issue of your marriage, and while she is reprehensible for using her power as she has, the power imbalance is in fact neither of your fault.

Sorry for the book and for your wounds.

HAZ


----------



## Chaparral

Sham, you do what you think is best. No one here can get a real feel for the situation like you can. I for one hope things haven't gone so far that you two can't resolve your issues and be happy.Many changes have to be made. I think you did a fine job under extreme circumstances. Too much time apart even if nothing happened. Good luck , maybe prayers helped, I hope so.


----------



## Shamwow

I Did mention OM at hotel next door. She said e was there hanging with the work team (they had all worked together up until about a year ago). Knew that's what he'd say. Didn't want to engage on any details of what I knew. It just happened because she stonewalled me. Should have left. I know.

We had great sex 3 times in the 2 days prior to hear 10 week trip. She did not leave unfulfilled. You all know she pulled away from me after that trip. She has turned me down since then, even when I tried to just "take her" the night before she left for the next gig. And the next one. I tried a dozen or more times in the few weeks she was home.

Have we always had sex 5 times a week? No. Have there been slow periods over 8 years? Sure. She has always had self-image issues, so I've heard how she's ugly many times, and have gone out of my way to show her that's bot true and reassure her.

Panties come back positive I will leave in a heartbeat. 

Really want to ravage her, but she knows she doesn't deserve it right now and then she'll fully be running the show (if that's possible). Sorry it didn't go as planned, but it did for a good chunkbf the confront. Yeah, the tables have turned again. If I jump right back into fighting her on things she's already denied she'll make it MY issue. 

She has been all affectionate today, and is pretending nothing happened. Clearly so am I. But we both know there's a big matzo ball hanging out there that needs to be addressed again. Question is when. She won't bring it up, so it's up to me.

Panty proof would be really good to had RIGHT NOW. Then I could just walk and she would know it's done and on her. Touchy without that, as She's here now and so am I. 

Also why I can't post as much. Thanks for yourresponses, I'm trying so hard here it hurts. Just couldn't pull the trigger as planned last night and now feel temporarily stuck with the outcome until I can regroup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

And we got really drunk last night. She was asleep in the cab on the way home. There would not have been sex if I was Brad Pitt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

And after a while it was quite fun (in our denial) and we laughed a LOT. Regardless of the situation, we both needed that at some level, even if it wasn't the right time, or justified in any way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan

Sham, everyone here understands that you're going through serious emotional turmoil.

Please, do not let this underwear test make or break this crisis. Whether or not it is positive does not change what she did to you. If it comes back as negative, can you really dismiss all her behavior as odd, but that she was faithful to you?

You haven't "lost" at anything Sham. Rome wasn't built in a day. Stay strong in this, don't let her take control over this so she can sweep it under the rug. And keep reading the advice here. Over and over again if necessary, until you get the fortitude to get back in the fray and work to resolve this, whether it is a divorce or not.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Shamwow said:


> And after a while it was quite fun (in our denial) and we laughed a LOT. Regardless of the situation, we both needed that at some level, even if it wasn't the right time, or justified in any way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You didn't need to go out, get hammered, and giggle like school children. You needed to avoid the alcohol altogether. You have serious marital problems which drinking will not solve.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> I Did mention OM at hotel next door. She said e was there hanging with the work team (they had all worked together up until about a year ago). Knew that's what he'd say. Didn't want to engage on any details of what I knew. It just happened because she stonewalled me. Should have left. I know.
> 
> We had great sex 3 times in the 2 days prior to hear 10 week trip. She did not leave unfulfilled. You all know she pulled away from me after that trip. She has turned me down since then, even when I tried to just "take her" the night before she left for the next gig. And the next one. I tried a dozen or more times in the few weeks she was home.
> 
> Have we always had sex 5 times a week? No. Have there been slow periods over 8 years? Sure. She has always had self-image issues, so I've heard how she's ugly many times, and have gone out of my way to show her that's bot true and reassure her.
> 
> Panties come back positive I will leave in a heartbeat.
> 
> Really want to ravage her, but she knows she doesn't deserve it right now and then she'll fully be running the show (if that's possible). Sorry it didn't go as planned, but it did for a good chunkbf the confront. Yeah, the tables have turned again. If I jump right back into fighting her on things she's already denied she'll make it MY issue.
> 
> She has been all affectionate today, and is pretending nothing happened. Clearly so am I. But we both know there's a big matzo ball hanging out there that needs to be addressed again. Question is when. She won't bring it up, so it's up to me.
> 
> Panty proof would be really good to had RIGHT NOW. Then I could just walk and she would know it's done and on her. Touchy without that, as She's here now and so am I.
> 
> Also why I can't post as much. Thanks for yourresponses, I'm trying so hard here it hurts. Just couldn't pull the trigger as planned last night and now feel temporarily stuck with the outcome until I can regroup.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OM hanging with the work team!? Right. You know
then that for her to go NC she cannot work with that team again.

I appreciate you addressing the tking care of business perspective. Ok check you can that off the list then. Sounds like you were not missing in action. It is some history re-writing she was trying to do. 

Not that a person is justified in cheating if you had not been affectionate. But it sounds like you were trying to take care of business. She was avoiding you sexually on purpose. The ten week deal was the clincher. This was the same team? If so then logically the OM was there.

What person goes to a team site and hangs out with that team? That does not occur in nature without engorged fuzzy naughty bits being involved.


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## Almostrecovered

Time to tell the OM's wife you need to fight the war on two fronts, plus she may have more info
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> And we got really drunk last night. She was asleep in the cab on the way home. There would not have been sex if I was Brad Pitt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Step 1: SEX

Step 2: Go Out

Step 3: Drink

Step 4: Go Home

Step 5: Sleep

Step 6: Morning SEX

Step 7: Breakfast

Repeat as needed


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## Almostrecovered

Also consider telling OM's work on what he has been doing on their company time, depending on how it may affect your wife's work situation at her workplace
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

She likely got wasted due to the enormous amount of pressure that lying puts on you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

I recommend that you not tell her about the underwear until you have the results back. If you give her the ultimatum, there are three options there.
1. It comes back negative for semen. This doesn't mean that she didn't have sex while she was gone. But, she has won because you will feel like you can't leave without iron-clad proof.
2. It comes back positive for semen and you leave her. If this is the case, she doesn't need to know several days before hand. Just get the results, hand them to her, and leave.
3. It comes back positive for semen and you don't leave. This is the worst case scenario. You can't threaten what you won't follow through with. It will actually diminish your chances at any kind of reconciliation in the future, if you want that.

So, send them off, start working the 180, and buckle up.


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## Chaparral

Shamwow, Just ignore the posts that seem to be intentionally hurtfull for whatever reason they are written. Try to stay calm and logical. Things could certainly be worse. A young man I know lost his life yesterday in a construction accident leaving two young children behind. Be patient there is no hurry. You have your whole life in front of you and you need to make good, solid decisions.


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## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Why aren't you in Vegas now? Get some girls and go. Just friends.


Ha. I actually said this to her last night. I said, well hey, let's say i hid a trip to Vegas with Melissa and Kristina from _____, I work with them, no big deal right? 

She agreed that would be wrong. I said "so why would it be any different from my perspective"? Stonewalled, then more crying. Then attorney comment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes.
> 
> She will claim it is plutonic semen. Harmless.


Totally. She'll say those panties were in her laundry basket for a long time, and it's from us. We haven't had sex since the end of April! And they were in her suitcase from this trip. But shell say it anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

PHTlump said:


> I recommend that you not tell her about the underwear until you have the results back. If you give her the ultimatum, there are three options there.
> 1. It comes back negative for semen. This doesn't mean that she didn't have sex while she was gone. But, she has won because you will feel like you can't leave without iron-clad proof.
> 2. It comes back positive for semen and you leave her. If this is the case, she doesn't need to know several days before hand. Just get the results, hand them to her, and leave.
> 3. It comes back positive for semen and you don't leave. This is the worst case scenario. You can't threaten what you won't follow through with. It will actually diminish your chances at any kind of reconciliation in the future, if you want that.
> 
> So, send them off, start working the 180, and buckle up.



I KNOW I wouldn't do #3. #1 would really suck, but that's pretty much where I'm at now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## librarydragon

Shamwow said:


> She has been all affectionate today, and is pretending nothing happened. Clearly so am I...I can't post as much. Thanks for your responses, I'm trying so hard here it hurts. Just couldn't pull the trigger as planned last night and now feel temporarily stuck with the outcome until I can regroup.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, Sham...

You won't be the only one regrouping. Now that she knows she still has a bigger pair, she'll be calculating how to take her addiction (aka affair) further underground.

Up until you reported what occured last night, I had been absolutely indignant for you. Your wife's behaviour is disgusting. But you're now equally culpable for the state of your marriage. She's still 100% responsible for the choice to have an affair...but only up until yesterday. You're now an accessory to the crime. You've just given the keys to a drunk driver, and you're counting on dumb luck and blind chance to get you home safely.

Sham, I was once a wayward, or if you will, walk-away wife. I had an emotional affair and left my first husband. So, understand that I have a little insight into your wife's mind. After having gone through a divorce, I don't cheer for any marriage to end. It's horrible, even if you're the one who wants it.

Soooo...please listen to me. I WANT you to reconcile with your wife, if that's what you want. *BUT*, your actions from last night will not lead you down the road to recovery. If you want to *recover* your marriage with your wife, you need to:


Schedule a polygraph. This condition is non-negotiable for you to continue in the marriage. You WALK if she refuses. You can not recover based on lies. You deserve the truth.

Insist your wife quits her job and secures employment that does not require her to travel away from you. OR, as you indicated earlier, you travel with her. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Ensure she establishes NO CONTACT...FOR LIFE with the other man/men, and she does not have male friends in the future. This is also non-negotiable. 

Finally, she begins to show remorse for her actions. At some point, she needs to do the heavy lifting in your relationship.

If she refuses these simple actions to protect you, _her husband_, then you divorce her. You recover, or you divorce. Or, I suppose, you stay in your crappy marriage and stop complaining because, after all, you chose it, and in fact, helped to create it. 

A final harsh reality for you to consider. Please don't rest your decision on the outcome of a test on those panties. I'm sorry to be graphic, but oral sex is a damn fine way to conceal a lot of evidence. The panties don't matter here. You have a smoking gun and a trail of friggin' bullets...

I know you don't know me, and I don't know you. But, please trust me. In addition to being a woman, and a one-time wayward at that, I'm also a woman with a bigger pair than most men could ever hope to have. It takes some serious alpha to combat an alpha female, and right now, you don't have it going on. You need to find it, and soon.


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## aug

SW, continue to protect yourself. Dont give her any money to bail out her situation.

Get several voice-activated recorders. Hide them in different places.

Time is your friend here.


(talk to the OM wife? she may share some info.)


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## 8yearscheating

Stop justifying your actions or saying you did wrong. You did great. You have a heart. Remember there is still the option of polygraph to see if she is lying - panties are inconclusive. Discuss marriage counseling - non-confrontational and will allow both of a safe haven to be open and get your questions asked. That safe haven might encourage ehr to open up and be truthful - though not guaranteed. I truly believe she needs independent counseling (IC) to work on her issues of feeling ugly and undesirable as well as and most importantly why she played games that would be so hurtful. If she finally comes clean in mC about an affair then add what allowed or motivated her to do it to the IC list.

Again - be proud you got your concerns out and on the table and heard her side. Now let's see if her side changes.


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## PHTlump

chapparal said:


> Shamwow, Just ignore the posts that seem to be intentionally hurtfull for whatever reason they are written. Try to stay calm and logical. Things could certainly be worse. A young man I know lost his life yesterday in a construction accident leaving two young children behind. Be patient there is no hurry. You have your whole life in front of you and you need to make good, solid decisions.


I haven't seen any intentionally hurtful posts. The posts that are blunt are obviously trying to nudge SW toward standing up for himself.

There are currently three options for SW.
1. He divorces.
2. His wife becomes remorseful, changes her ways, and he stays married.
3. His wife doesn't change his behavior, and he stays married.

If he divorces, he will probably regret his denial and allowing her to rug sweep. If he stays married without his wife changing, he will probably wish he could stand up for himself and force his wife to make a change. If he stays married with his wife changing her behavior, it will probably only be due to him standing up for himself that forces his wife to change.

So in any case, standing up for himself and not allowing his wife to stonewall and rug sweep is the optimal strategy. Now, I agree that he can do this tomorrow or next week. But, he will probably regret not doing it last night or today.


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## Shamwow

PHTlump said:


> I recommend that you not tell her about the underwear until you have the results back.


completely agree. Once they came back I would have no trouble leaving in the middle of the night and proceeding as coldly as possible.

But in the meantime...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

librarydragon said:


> Oh, Sham...
> 
> You won't be the only one regrouping. Now that she knows she still has a bigger pair, *she'll be calculating how to take her addiction (aka affair) further underground.
> *
> 
> 
> I know you don't know me, and I don't know you. But, please trust me. In addition to being a woman, and a one-time wayward at that, *I'm also a woman with a bigger pair than most men could ever hope to have*. It takes some serious alpha to combat an alpha female, and right now, you don't have it going on. You need to find it, and soon.



I agree she'll will now take it underground. Or, she'll plan her exit.

Big pair women are interesting. But you have people here to support you.


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## Shamwow

8years, thanks. Panties would be conclusive if they are what I think they are (look pretty bad, and trust me, she's always very well groomed and clean)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

Shamwow said:


> 8years, thanks. Panties would be conclusive if they are what I think they are (look pretty bad, and trust me, she's always very well groomed and clean)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now, if I'm understanding correctly what you are saying, then no condoms were used? Yikes!


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## Shamwow

She has said she won't do counseling. I don't like the idea of it either, but we are at that point.

Right now she's sleeping on the couch and I'm out back "listening to the ballgame".

180 time is now, huh? So she said she would love to go camping in the next few days, she has also brought up taking a trip, and has been talking about the future in terms of plans. I know I'm bot supposed to have any planned dates on 180, so do I tell her flatout NO, or just vaguely respond in a way that makes things like that not come to fruition?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> I KNOW I wouldn't do #3. #1 would really suck, but that's pretty much where I'm at now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You MIGHT do #3. You never now until after you've done it. Remember, last night you were SURE that you were going to follow your script, but you didn't. Anyway, I'm not accusing you of being weak. It would have been brilliant if you had followed the script, but remember you're dealing with a master manipulator and you're under an insane amount of stress.

However, you also shouldn't fool yourself that you're bound by your past failures. You may have backed off divorce last night, but that doesn't mean you can't bring it back up. You can get back on to your script at any point you want. You don't have to convince her to give up any power for you to claim yours.

Good luck.


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## thecw

Shamwow said:


> completely agree. Once they came back I would have no trouble leaving in the middle of the night and proceeding as coldly as possible.
> 
> But in the meantime...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When will they be back? Someone posted a link earlier to an at-home-kit that you could have ordered with overnight shipping and had your answer by this time tomorrow.


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## Shamwow

aug said:


> Now, if I'm understanding correctly what you are saying, then no condoms were used? Yikes!


I know, right? If that's true then I wouldn't want to touch her with my ten-foot pole anyway, regardless of the situation at hand. Of course, part of me thinks a good throwdown would do a lot of good in the intimacy (and knowing who her man is) department, but I have to put that right out of my head unless she really comes clean and begins changing her ways decisively and supportively. Right now she's acting like everything's fine, prob hoping I won't start "talking things to death again". I know I have to talk again, but if we start doing this every day we're doomed no matter what. Which...I guess...would probably be the case anyway.
Guys. This SUCKS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> I know, right? If that's true then I wouldn't want to touch her with my ten-foot pole anyway
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, this is probably not her first time. It's just the first time she was so blatant about it and you sensed something wasn't right. She got this good at lying, deception, and manipulation through years of experience, not in a matter of weeks.


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> 180 time is now, huh? So she said she would love to go camping in the next few days, she has also brought up taking a trip, and has been talking about the future in terms of plans. I know I'm bot supposed to have any planned dates on 180, so do I tell her flatout NO, or just vaguely respond in a way that makes things like that not come to fruition?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I would make it seem like you don't want to do things. I would make it seem like you don't want to do things WITH HER. You could tell her that you may be separated or divorced in a week, or a month, or whenever. So why make plans that you may have to cancel?

Also, you need to start making plans without her. Go out with a buddy tonight and leave her home. This is practice for if/when you separate. And even if you don't, you need to pull back from her some.


----------



## librarydragon

Sham, right now I am thinking of you as a little brother whose ass I want to kick. 

You need honesty right now, 'cause you're sure not getting it from your wife.


----------



## Shamwow

thecw said:


> When will they be back? Someone posted a link earlier to an at-home-kit that you could have ordered with overnight shipping and had your answer by this time tomorrow.


Can I trust a self-testing kit? Really? I know 5 or 6 women whose home pregnancy tests yielded false results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> I know, right? If that's true then I wouldn't want to touch her with my ten-foot pole anyway, regardless of the situation at hand. Of course, part of me thinks a good throwdown would do a lot of good in the intimacy (and knowing who her man is) department, but I have to put that right out of my head unless she really comes clean and begins changing her ways decisively and supportively.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you could go with some grudge sex. I would just wear a condom. If you don't wear condoms with her and she asks, just tell her you don't want to catch anything.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> I know, right? If that's true then I wouldn't want to touch her with my ten-foot pole anyway, regardless of the situation at hand. Of course, part of me thinks a good throwdown would do a lot of good in the intimacy (and knowing who her man is) department, but I have to put that right out of my head unless she really comes clean and begins changing her ways decisively and supportively. Right now she's acting like everything's fine, prob hoping I won't start "talking things to death again". I know I have to talk again, but if we start doing this every day we're doomed no matter what. Which...I guess...would probably be the case anyway.
> Guys. This SUCKS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hold off sleeping with her till after her next period and she gets tested for STD.

Dont want you to raise another man's child or get a permanent disease.


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> Can I trust a self-testing kit? Really? I know 5 or 6 women whose home pregnancy tests yielded false results.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask your lawyer. He probably has experience with this.

A quick Google search gave me this link.
Lab Infidelity Study

They claim a 1-2 day turnaround at a lab for $199.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Lump, I will tell you from my own experience, when I decided I still loved my wife and wanted to fight for reconciliation, every post that made assumptions about what my wife was thinking or doing or that commented on what I was planning in a negative and generally hurtful way (my feelings not the posters feelings and MAYBE not the intent) started to make me extremely angry and feeling like I was in the extreme minority trying. It got to the point where I stopped coming here because no matter I did, someone had a reason why I was wrong and needed to do it their way or I was a fool. I can't tell you how many times these same posters used the shield of I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience and I'm allowed my opinion. Number one their experience was not my present time or circumstances. Number two - I was reconciling - 95% of these posters hadn't or were not trying to. Number three -Their opinion when negatively thrown at me or as insults to the woman I loved were absolutely not welcome at a time when I was struggling hard. Hearing people telling me my wife would screw anyone, was a *****, could never tell the truth, once a cheater always a cheater, on and on and on sunk me further into despair and anger. Believe it or not, I still hear that from people who have read my history. Well here's the fickle finger of faith - I am doing fine, my wife is doing fine, our recovery is going very well thank you. Yes a cheater can recover and change. Yes honesty can be regained and made the rule not the exception. No I didn't need the 180, going dark, being deceitful and hiding my feelings to be sucessful. I did it with honesty, not stooping her deceiptful ways. I did lay boundaries, I did lay down my needs and I did stick to them without being alpha or disregarding her feelings - in fact I showed compassion for what she had to deal with in recovery. So - for all the advice - I speak from a strong ongoing reconciliation. Not all people want it - their dealbreaker was the A and I respect that. Respect those who still love their spouses.


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## Shamwow

librarydragon said:


> Sham, right now I am thinking of you as a little brother whose ass I want to kick.
> 
> You need honesty right now, 'cause you're sure not getting it from your wife.


Ummm, is this my wife following this thread?? If so, I'm out back and I have my boxing gloves on. Try me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Ummm, is this my wife following this thread??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damm, that would be scary!


----------



## 8yearscheating

And for you shamwow - simple solution to all the mind movies people are making for you - go dark - stop coming here.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sham, please tell me your thoughts on contacting OM's wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

BenDEBONAIR said:


> They got drunk together. SMH :-(
> Final score: Mr. Sham=-3 Mrs. Sham=+10
> #powergames
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hell, worth a try. Like I've said, we have always loved to party together. Since day ONE (and no, of course not every day). But since 10-wk trip I've been in megahealth mode and we hadn't done that in forever. Right time? Nope. Right motivation? Nope. Smart considering my goal last night? Nope. Did we have fun together for the first time in a long time? Yep. So it is what it is. Prob didn't do me any good, and I did mention I felt like a dumb*** this morning. 

I could just post what would make me look good, but that would make the resulting comments have less value for my actual situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> Sham, please tell me your thoughts on contacting OM's wife
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't even know anymore. If my wife can deflect the possibilities so easily (considering only circumstantial evidence), then he certainly will too. And I guarantee she's told him already that I suspected him. He's either laughing or scared (depending on if he's actually guilty). So he will be prepared with his story now too...as to why he was in _____ and Vegas last week, if she didn't already know. Who knows...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity

Sham - did you confirm she paid for a hotel room while in Vegas?

An interrogation would ask her specifically what happened while she was just having fun, with whom, what did you do, etc. and then corroborate it against fact. If it's harmless, she would have her own room. No hotel bill, then she stayed with someone else.

Just a thought.


----------



## Shamwow

seeking sanity said:


> Sham - did you confirm she paid for a hotel room while in Vegas?
> 
> An interrogation would ask her specifically what happened while she was just having fun, with whom, what did you do, etc. and then corroborate it against fact. No hotel bill, then she stayed with someone.
> 
> Just a thought.


They won't give out info of who stayed where and when at hotels (esp in Vegas). I can check her credit card statements, but may have to wait a few weeks for them to show. If she paid for it out of her business checking account, I'd need her password to login. I've tried.

She did tell me (after she got back) where she stayed, I suppose I could try, assuming she actually stayed there. Just left yesterday, I could ask for my wife ____, they say we have no one by that name, I could say, oh did she check out yesterday? Might get lucky with the right person, but I think it's illegal for them to give out that info.


----------



## morituri

Shamwow,

Whatever path you choose, D or R, you've got support.


----------



## seeking sanity

Do you have access to her phone, or is glued to her? 
Do you have access to her laptop, or does it all of a sudden have a password?


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> Don't even know anymore. If my wife can deflect the possibilities so easily (considering only circumstantial evidence), then he certainly will too. And I guarantee she's told him already that I suspected him. He's either laughing or scared (depending on if he's actually guilty). So he will be prepared with his story now too...as to why he was in _____ and Vegas last week, if she didn't already know. Who knows...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thread closed.

You had the element of surprise on your side while they were in Vegas. Now the strength of your attack hinges on a pair of crusty panties? I would venture to guess the test result will be negative and that crust is nothing more than bad mix of sweat, funk, urine, and who knows maybe she got turned on somewhere and the faucet started dripping a bit. She could also have a yeast infection, bacterial vaginosis, etc. But it won't be semen. Your wife is way too smart to bring back such incriminating evidence. She sensed uncertainty and you think she'd bring back a dirty pair of panties? No way. Actually 99.9% of women are smart enough not to do that.

So back to the point, your wife and the other man have now had a full 24 hours to face the onwaiting ambush, weathered the brunt of it, and have now corroborated their story better than ever. You lost. Accept her as she is and live a false life. In some way we all do anyways.


----------



## seeking sanity

Ask her to prove she had her own room. You can say it like, "Maybe you are right and I'm being paranoid. It would really help me feel better if I saw a room receipt." If she won't prove it, it's another clue.


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> Lump, I will tell you from my own experience, when I decided I still loved my wife and wanted to fight for reconciliation, every post that made assumptions about what my wife was thinking or doing or that commented on what I was planning in a negative and generally hurtful way (my feelings not the posters feelings and MAYBE not the intent) started to make me extremely angry and feeling like I was in the extreme minority trying. It got to the point where I stopped coming here because no matter I did, someone had a reason why I was wrong and needed to do it their way or I was a fool. I can't tell you how many times these same posters used the shield of I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience and I'm allowed my opinion. Number one their experience was not my present time or circumstances. Number two - I was reconciling - 95% of these posters hadn't or were not trying to. Number three -Their opinion when negatively thrown at me or as insults to the woman I loved were absolutely not welcome at a time when I was struggling hard. Hearing people telling me my wife would screw anyone, was a *****, could never tell the truth, once a cheater always a cheater, on and on and on sunk me further into despair and anger. Believe it or not, I still hear that from people who have read my history. Well here's the fickle finger of faith - I am doing fine, my wife is doing fine, our recovery is going very well thank you. Yes a cheater can recover and change. Yes honesty can be regained and made the rule not the exception. No I didn't need the 180, going dark, being deceitful and hiding my feelings to be sucessful. I did it with honesty, not stooping her deceiptful ways. I did lay boundaries, I did lay down my needs and I did stick to them without being alpha or disregarding her feelings - in fact I showed compassion for what she had to deal with in recovery. So - for all the advice - I speak from a strong ongoing reconciliation. Not all people want it - their dealbreaker was the A and I respect that. Respect those who still love their spouses.


8,

I honestly don't know why you're addressing your post to me. I have never told SW that his wife was incapable of changing or that he should leave her and never look back. I have always laid out the possibilities. She may change. She may not.

Also, if SW posted that he knows that his wife had a PA, but he wants to reconcile, then I would tailor my advice to his desires. As it is now, he seems to want to reconcile unless his wife had a PA, which would probably mean divorce. So that's what I'm working with.

I honestly don't know why my advising a man to stand up for himself and not allow his wife to manipulate him or lie to him is offensive to you. Well, I think I do know. I think it just hits a little close to home. That's unfortunate, but this thread isn't about you.

Now obviously, every case is different and some women don't react to things the way that most women react to them. However, the poster appears to need to add alpha to his mix of behaviors. I'm happy for you that your wife didn't require that. It appears that your wife just decided to change without much pushing from you. That's great. It's better to have a faithful wife than an unfaithful one.

However, the general case does require action. Most unfaithful spouses will continue to be unfaithful until they are required to change. And a very effective way of precipitating that change is to demonstrate that you are prepared to move on without them (the 180). It's really not "stooping to her deceitful ways" to prepare yourself to move forward in the event an unfaithful wife continues to betray you.

I also believe that information is valuable. The fact is that spouses who cheat once are more likely to cheat in the future. They're not guaranteed to cheat. But they are more likely to cheat. It is also a fact that most reconciliations fail. Knowing facts such as these can help someone plan the best course of action for his future.

If SW decides to reconcile after his wife's affair, I have no doubt that you will be a valuable resource. But I question your utility in pushing for a reconciliation that he's leaning away from right now.

I wish you the best in your reconciliation. Everyone deserves a strong marriage. But, a strong marriage comes from strong work. It doesn't come from wishful thinking, denial of obvious facts, and sticking one's head in the sand.


----------



## Shamwow

seeking sanity said:


> Do you have access to her phone, or is glued to her?
> Do you have access to her laptop, or does it all of a sudden have a password?


I can get to the laptop, either while she's showering or sleeping. Want to put something on there, any suggestions? It's a mac. Something that isn't detectable.

Phone is glued to her. Even when she goes to the bathroom. Has a passcode on it (for "work", so random people don't eff with it...she says they prank each other and people finally started locking their phones). I have ALMOST seen the code as she's typed it in a few times. But without it, all I can find about getting into a locked phone gets me only to the use of the phone, contacts and call records. I would need texts and pictures or I'd have nothing. I need to watch closer and get that code.

Or I should just forget about all this mess, light fire to the house next time she leaves, change my name and move to Mexico. That's how random and confused I feel at the moment.


----------



## seeking sanity

On this, there is a negotiating tactic called collaborative negotiation you could try: Basically you make the problem the advisary and you and wife are working together to solve the problem. (Obviously you are not, but it might prove to be a good way find out more.) 

You approach her by saying, this is really bothering me and I want to get past it. Can you help me understand some more things so we can move on? (This makes her think she can use her cunning to end the conversation for good.) 

Then methodically walk through every minute of the trip. There's bound to be other slip ups. Remember Columbo? That's what he did.


----------



## joe kidd

Does the phone have a micro SD card? Might have some pics and saved messages on it.


----------



## seeking sanity

The phone is the smoking gun here. It's in the infidelity script. On a mac the spy software is called SpectorSoft.com - it works great. It's how I cracked my wife's affair, years ago.

You can use the phone as leverage if you try the negotiation tactic. "You want me to get past this, right?" "Then show me your phone."

When you refuses, you ask her to leave.


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> I can get to the laptop, either while she's showering or sleeping. Want to put something on there, any suggestions? It's a mac. Something that isn't detectable.


Mac Keylogger – Aobo Keylogger For Mac OS X | Keylogger For Mac OS X

Chances are she's already put a password on her laptop.


----------



## PHTlump

Shamwow said:


> I can get to the laptop, either while she's showering or sleeping. Want to put something on there, any suggestions? It's a mac. Something that isn't detectable.


Google "mac keylogger" for some options.



Shamwow said:


> Or I should just forget about all this mess, light fire to the house next time she leaves, change my name and move to Mexico. That's how random and confused I feel at the moment.


Get a voice-activated recorder and install it under the seat of your car. When she uses it, you may catch something. If she only texts and doesn't talk, then you won't.

Another option is just to ask for the code to the phone. Obviously, you're not going to prank her. You can tell her your battery died and you want to make a call. Later, check texts, install spyware, etc. If she won't tell you her code or later changes the code, then that doesn't look good.

Good luck gathering enough evidence to convince you of your course of action.


----------



## Shamwow

thecw said:


> You lost. Accept her as she is and live a false life. In some way we all do anyways.


Ouch. Thanks for that. You really think I don't realize how incredibly powerless I am at the moment?? All l I have is divorce, which I DON'T WANT. I know I've lost a lot these last few months, and all I've done since then is research, introspection, self-improvement, direct communication and anything I can think of to not make the situation worse. Really think I'm not aware that last night was going great and then I let out too much information so she could counter and neutralize it?

You might as well just say "Put a bullet in your head".

But in some ways, we all do that anyways, right?


----------



## Shamwow

joe kidd said:


> Does the phone have a micro SD card? Might have some pics and saved messages on it.


Dunno. iPhone 4...anyone know?


----------



## seeking sanity

Or better yet, just grab the phone from her when she unlocks it. 

Some conflict is going to have to bring this to a head. Seriously, just walk up and take it from her.


----------



## Shamwow

Sorry for the anger y'all. So tired of putting myself in a corner.


----------



## Shamwow

thecw said:


> Mac Keylogger – Aobo Keylogger For Mac OS X | Keylogger For Mac OS X
> 
> Chances are she's already put a password on her laptop.


Thanks. And no password on the laptop. Sitting open in the other room right now on her email. But she's one room away at the moment, and I will NOT be caught dropping software on her machine. Later.


----------



## seeking sanity

You are doing the best you can. Really most of us have been exactly where you are and acted much worse. The reason so many people are active on this thread is because it's like replaying our lives, and we want it to turn out better than it did.


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## Shamwow

PHTlump said:


> You can tell her your battery died and you want to make a call. Later, check texts, install spyware, etc. If she won't tell you her code or later changes the code, then that doesn't look good.


Good idea, thanks!


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Sorry for the anger y'all. So tired of putting myself in a corner.


I deleted my post. It wasn't productive and it's my frustration
With her. Here she is with a great guy and just effing him around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Shamwow said:


> Dunno. iPhone 4...anyone know?


I do not believe the Iphone 4 supports micro sd.


----------



## seeking sanity

iPhone spy software: 
iPhone 4 Spy Software NOW AVAILABLE! | Spy iPhone 4 | Spyphone Guy | Spy Phone Reviews | Spy Phone News

Just google it.


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> Ouch. Thanks for that. You really think I don't realize how incredibly powerless I am at the moment?? All l I have is divorce, which I DON'T WANT. I know I've lost a lot these last few months, and all I've done since then is research, introspection, self-improvement, direct communication and anything I can think of to not make the situation worse. Really think I'm not aware that last night was going great and then I let out too much information so she could counter and neutralize it?
> 
> You might as well just say "Put a bullet in your head".
> 
> But in some ways, we all do that anyways, right?


Didn't mean to come across so harsh. I just meant to say that just do yourself a favor and accept her as is, move on, and hope for the best. 100% of marriages involve deception to some degree, and anybody who says different is being deceived in their marriage by somebody really good at it. It's a sad outlook, but it is what it is


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## aug

Shamwow said:


> Ouch. Thanks for that. You really think I don't realize how incredibly powerless I am at the moment?? All l I have is divorce, which I DON'T WANT. I know I've lost a lot these last few months, and all I've done since then is research, introspection, self-improvement, direct communication and anything I can think of to not make the situation worse.


Really, time is on your side. Eventually you will get tired, worn down from all this unhealthy drama and you will want out. The game gets tiring after a while, especially now you know you're getting played.


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## Cypress

Sham,

I have been following your story with rapt attention these past few days. I wish I had good advice for your situation, but I'm a bit new at this. What I can add is that you should re-focus on snooping techniques. Get mobistealth for her phone and a keylogger for her computer. Put a VAR in her car.

Last night was just a blip in the grand scheme of things. Let it pass and move on with more intelligence gathering.

This forum can help betrayed spouses come up with a good plan of action. Some of these folks have wise council for you. Some don't. But none of them have any skin in the game. You do. My advice is to take a break for a few days from the forum and regroup.


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## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Don't even know anymore. If my wife can deflect the possibilities so easily (considering only circumstantial evidence), then he certainly will too. And I guarantee she's told him already that I suspected him. He's either laughing or scared (depending on if he's actually guilty). So he will be prepared with his story now too...as to why he was in _____ and Vegas last week, if she didn't already know. Who knows...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) OM's wife may already be suspecting something and may even be able to give you some info from her side

2) don't assume OM said anything yet to his wife, in fact he would be stupid to change his story as to where he was as a pre-emptive strike as that would be arouse suspicion from his wife. Also, if she was told a different story as to where he was, it's further proof of a PA. I mean why would two people lie to their spouses?

3) regardless of whatever BS he will come up with (and yes it is likely she will swallow his story at least at first, but be certain she will start to snoop) She deserves the info. It is her right to do what she wants with the info as she pleases but she deserves to know of her husband's activities and whereabouts.

4) If R is what you wish at this point, you need to kill the affair first and foremost. This will help.


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## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> Totally. She'll say those panties were in her laundry basket for a long time, and it's from us. We haven't had sex since the end of April! And they were in her suitcase from this trip. But shell say it anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


simple enough. have your dna profiled as well.


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## golfergirl

Stonewall said:


> simple enough. have your dna profiled as well.


Or just say you did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Holy f***ing ****. Come on! In the last hour she has put a password on her computer. I have to say something about this, and fast. It'll put me right back on the ledge of walking again. Can I really have this conversation two days in a row? I know how weak I sound right now. I FEEL weak. I KNOW I'm being weak. I'm also feeling extremely angry though, and I know I can't hide that and pretend to be nice. Need to confront her again, as this time I have to walk, because I know she won't give an inch, because I backed down last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Manipulationnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locard

Sham! You were the chosen one! The prodigal poster, who found the forum so soon, the vets took under the wing just after H hour, got the chance they never did. 

They trained you, rehearsed, practiced, coached, strategized and then.......................7 seconds into round one she floats a left jab and lays you out, cold. 

Every one has a plan until they get hit. 

Don't sweat it, this mess isn't easy, stay strong and try and see things through the fog of war. Best wishes.


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## Cypress

Sham,

All waywards lie!

Don't listen to her words, instead watch what she does.


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## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Manipulationnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No shame in being a decent person and expecting same from others. Take a deep breath and don't take on more than you're ready for!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Easiest way would be to just say "after everything we talked about last last night about me needing to be able trust you, NOW you lock your computer? If you're playing games with me, stop it now. All passcodes are gone." she says no, I have to leave. Again. Please tell me I can do it this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cypress

Sham,

If she tries to lie, gaslight or minimize, head for the door and don't look back. Yes you can do it this time. You can.

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

Or I wait and see if she leaves it open (which she won't now) and get a logger on anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cypress

The logger is the better alternative. But don't let her disrespect you. 

Tell her you need a few night of sanity, if you need to leave.

This is easy for me to say, I'm not in your situation, but try to not be tied to any particular outcome in this whole situation.


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## Mike11

Sham

you are literally eating yourself with this,explain to her what are you expectations in lieu of her behaviour and tell her that this is what you need in order to be able to build the trust, 

I know that you are trying to avoid divorce but it does not look good so far and if she had nothing to hide she will be completely open and let you see her phone and her laptop 

Stay strong and stand up for what you believe in


----------



## piqued

You don't have to have a long, drawn out conversation about it. Just tell her after the events of the last week, and the lies and deceptions that she's employed, that putting a password on her computer and phone is no longer acceptable. Say it doesn't matter if she thinks it's corny or not, but that her marriage actually depends on it. Ask for access to her computer and phone tonight telling her in advance that if she refuses then divorce is the only answer. Say it is simply because you are not going to be played the fool, it is a reasonable request, and, considering the circumstances (of her lying) the very least she can and should do to show she is trustworthy.

don't get mad. if she objects just say "very well" and grab your bag and go. No more talking. If she relents and lets you look then take them both in your possession and go through them with a fine tooth comb. And, if you don't find anything don't feel "wrong" or "guilty", this IS A REASONABLE REQUEST considering HER ACTIONS.


----------



## 8yearscheating

You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.

If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.

If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


----------



## Shamwow

I am just so NOT used to her turning her strength against ME. I've always found it impressive, worthy of respect, and sexy. But she's turned her guns on ME now, and it blows my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> I am just so NOT used to her turning her strength against ME. I've always found it impressive, worthy of respect, and sexy. But she's turned her guns on ME now, and it blows my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This has no bearing on what happens tonight or tomorrow, etc., but the truth of it is Sham that she probably has always had her "guns" on you. She's probably always manipulated you, but had done it in a way that you didn't even realize she was doing it.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> She has said she won't do counseling. I don't like the idea of it either, but we are at that point.
> 
> Right now she's sleeping on the couch and I'm out back "listening to the ballgame".
> 
> 180 time is now, huh? So she said she would love to go camping in the next few days, she has also brought up taking a trip, and has been talking about the future in terms of plans. I know I'm bot supposed to have any planned dates on 180, so do I tell her flatout NO, or just vaguely respond in a way that makes things like that not come to fruition?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham,
Do you feel like you are in a position where you cannot demand anything that she is not ready and willing to give?

I don't understand, so sorry for questioning. She did things that even she admits were wrong. Now, the return expectations are supposed to be what you require to make it good between you two. 

I think this is what a lot of people are getting at with the questions.


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

Just read what 8Year had written and follow this is really good advice 

you will only be able to work this marriage out if you will stop being a doormat, guns or no guns it should not matter to you


----------



## Whip Morgan

Shamwow said:


> Easiest way would be to just say "after everything we talked about last last night about me needing to be able trust you, NOW you lock your computer? If you're playing games with me, stop it now. All passcodes are gone." she says no, I have to leave. Again. Please tell me I can do it this time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You could have done it the first time. But thats in the past. 

Since then, you've had close to what, 10 additional pages or so on this thread? Not all of it constructive, sure, but most with the same message. You dropped the ball the first time, but its a long road. These people here do understand the distress you're in - most of them have been through it. Consider them tryin to throw some cold water on you to wake you up...It just went from a bucket to getting blasted with a firehose. 

I truly hope you stop pinning your hopes on the testing of the underwear. I felt that you considered that the make-or-break deal. I felt that way until you posted about her locking her computer. After everything that has happened. 

Sham, regardless of that testing, you know she was cheating. Now, she pulls this computer sh*t on you. You know what she has been doing: cheating. I refuse to believe in the "hard evidence, benefit of the doubt" nonsense. This isn't Law and Order. Pick some threads, any threads. You'll see the usual: evidence, confrontation, denial. Its a scary script these WS follow.

Sham, I do have faith you can stand up for yourself and find your self-respect. You posted several pages ago you put your balls back in her purse. Take them out, man.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Listen to 8 year. Your future is in your control, not hers. 


Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

Halien said:


> Sham,
> Do you feel like you are in a position where you cannot demand anything that she is not ready and willing to give?


sadly, yes. I think that just about sums it up. How can I be this way? I'm a strong guy, ask anyone I work with, or any of my friends. But I guess when it comes to her, I gave her my power when I gave her my heart. Wrong. I know. Just realizing this is the way it is. All along I thought I was in charge. But when push came to shove, I've proven that I truly am not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'll revise a few words - IF you want me *to try* to stay married - no commitments until I see actions.


----------



## Halien

8yearscheating said:


> I'll revise a few words - IF you want me *to try* to stay married - no commitments until I see actions.


Exactly, Sham. This seems to be what you are saying that you want. Give the expectation, plain and simple, and then get away for a while so you can prepare to reconcile or exit.


----------



## golfergirl

8yearscheating said:


> You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.
> 
> If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
> 1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
> 2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
> 2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
> 3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
> 4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
> 5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.
> 
> If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


Sometimes you drive me crazy but this is perfect and brilliant.

ETA - I also have say I admire your devotion and dedication to your family. If both spouses in a marriage felt that way the coping with infidelity forum wouldn't exist.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

8yearscheating said:


> You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.
> 
> If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
> 1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
> 2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
> 2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
> 3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
> 4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
> 5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.
> 
> If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


Is this similar to what you did?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CH

8yearscheating said:


> You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.
> 
> If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
> 1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
> 2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
> 2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
> 3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
> 4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
> 5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.
> 
> If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


Delete all the other 57 pages and this is all you need right now.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I loved my wife dearly too Sham and I fought for what I knew I needed to even start to regain trust and safety. I didn't throw in the towel and divorce her despite all she had done - again 20 years, three men and a child - the OM was MY daughter's godfather for f's sake. She has lied, she has deceived, she may have even gone PA, but if you love her, you can work through it IF and only IF she stops now, gives you full transparency and commits to boundaries regarding other men and goes NC REGARDLESS OF WHAT DID OR DID NOT HAPPEN. You can't live on the edge of this cliff, it will drive you crazy - it my case I damn near ended for both myself and the OM! STOP THE INSANITY NOW!!!!!!


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Drink 2 beers, practice 8 years list in the mirror a few times. Then go for it. 

--Those who dare win --

Cypress


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Holy f***ing ****. Come on! In the last hour she has put a password on her computer. I have to say something about this, and fast. It'll put me right back on the ledge of walking again. Can I really have this conversation two days in a row? I know how weak I sound right now. I FEEL weak. I KNOW I'm being weak. I'm also feeling extremely angry though, and I know I can't hide that and pretend to be nice. Need to confront her again, as this time I have to walk, because I know she won't give an inch, because I backed down last night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham. My wife and I have total transparency. Many couples do this. It is not about snooping. In other words with no one hidng anything you allow our spouse access to your accounts. You do not hide anything. If someone closes something down you have a right to wonder. You also have a right to transparncy. If they refuse, that is not being faithful. This is usaully and agreed upon boundary. But the fact it was not passworded and it is now is a red flag.

Her excuse will be that you are threatening divorce and she has to protect herself. See that is a downside to threatening divorce. Once yoy lay that down and do not follow through the threat itself can justify bad behavior by the one who was threatened.

She actually may just be buying time right now for her to make her moves.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> I am just so NOT used to her turning her strength against ME. I've always found it impressive, worthy of respect, and sexy. But she's turned her guns on ME now, and it blows my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



And this in itself, after you go through it, will make you stronger. Look at it, if you can, as a learning experience.


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## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.
> 
> If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
> 1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
> 2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
> 2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
> 3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
> 4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
> 5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.
> 
> If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I totally agree 8


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> sadly, yes. I think that just about sums it up. How can I be this way? I'm a strong guy, ask anyone I work with, or any of my friends. But I guess when it comes to her, I gave her my power when I gave her my heart. Wrong. I know. Just realizing this is the way it is. All along I thought I was in charge. But when push came to shove, I've proven that I truly am not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude. One of the reasons this situation is so compelling to a lot of the folks here is that obviously you are hurting. You seem to be a good guy. You seem to really love her. We are taken by that and it pains the rest of us who look on. We hate to see decent people mistreated. We so empathize with how your head knows you have been wronged but it is so very hard to let go of someone who we really love. It is like a death. We want to hang on. It is ok to have those feelings. BUT, they cannot win out.

In fact to me if you want to keep her ....

If you want to spend the rest of your life with her ....

If you want to be a couple again ....


There is only ONE WAY for this to happen now. 




You have to be willing to let her go.



I absolutely agree with what 8 is saying. Give her that list. In fact she should stop travelling. But give her that list. If she is worthy of you she will do it. If she is not ready then you have to let her go to ever have a chance of getting her back.

This must be right because you are seeing a true concensus here. 8 and the rest of us are one with what he has posted. Go for it brother.


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## Amalgum Tattoo

As much as I don't want to pile on, I just want to give my vote of support to you and to say that 8Years advice is spot on.

Something to consider: If you don't think you will remember all the demands in the heat of the moment, write them out as a bulleted list so you can have:

1. Talking points
2. A physical list to give her

What the hell. Post it on the fridge, dude.

Good luck, brother.


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## CH

You had her against the ropes and almost down for a KO, she fluttered hey eyelashes and you got knocked down.

Time to pick yourself back up and get back into the ring. Fight for it, not saying you'll end up together but you need what 8years has posted and now.

If not, you're gonna be back here asking what went wrong when everything was going so good again. She pulled the rug over your eyes and you fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Now you're so confused you don't know what to do anymore.

GO, SHAM, GO! Rooting for ya.


----------



## Entropy3000

8


----------



## 8yearscheating

Here is the details of how I specifically did it. She refused to stop and I had proof. She wanted to move out. I sat her down and told her this. I cannot keep going like this. You have two choices. If you move out you will pay 50% of the mortgage, home expenses and childcare. All accounts will be escrowed to pay bills. All credit cancelled and she was on her own financially. I had already tlaked to a lawyer and a negotiate settlement was $7k - separate attorneys anywhere from $15 -40 K each. I would wait 30 days to file but the chances of me not filing went down dramatically if she left. Her second choice - the list I gave you - complete transparency immediately. Get rid of hidden cell phone, NC immediately with me sending a letter she wrote with a required list of items included to leave not doubt. 100% in for MC and IC for her - I was already seeing one. I gave her 3 days to decide. In my case I had all the information I needed and didn't need to worry about her deleting everything. NO Iphones don't have sd cards. They do perform a backup each time they are synced that includes one file that can be read with textpad - not easily but read that contains all of the deleted text messages since the last sync. You need proof of what happened so you deal with it or not and the emails and texts should tell you. She has to maintain that transparency and rebuild your trust with actions - plain and simple. Gotta run care for my wife - she had knee replacement surgery last week. DO what YOU need and get what you need. Not me or anyone else has to live with your decisions. I heard you yell you needed it done. DO it - hope for the best, expect the worst, execute YOUR plan and stick to what you need - not her crying, not her excuses, not her heart tearing comments. She had none of those before you confronted her.


----------



## 8yearscheating

OH and I am obviously pro reconciliation - If I can do it you sure as hell can. I've been called womanized and your probably more of a man than I. Good luck, God speed and make it so!!!!


----------



## aeg512

I agree with one of the other posters and feel you should contact the wife of the OM. You never know what may turn up. You could find out if he lied to her about details of the trip, also, was he there on business or did he take vacation days to go? Did she know your wife was going to Vegas with him? She will be able to also do some investigation and may come up with some details or when she confront (if he lied about details of the trip) he could throw your wife under the bus. If he has kids and his wife is strong he may not be so willing to pay out big bucks for alimony and CS. She could check his phone records to see where calls are going, maybe a hidden phone, his PC could come up with other email boxes. That could be why your wife has locked down her PC, she created a new email to communicate. You could ask the wife to snoop for a few weeks before bringing you discussion up. She could also find out if he paid for the room in Vegas. I really cannot see where it would hurt to call.


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## librarydragon

8yearscheating said:


> You can do it SHam - fight for what you want her to do. Lay it out, no dark, no worrying about what you do wrong - just keep your cool and do it business like.
> 
> If you want me to stay and stay married here is what you need to do:
> 1. GIve me all passwords and usernames - your computer and your phone.
> 2. Stop deleting all texts and emails until I have read them with you. Show me all of them now. I don't trust you not to clean house of all things you think I won't like. That includes the trash folders.
> 2. Give me your phone so I can sync it. If you have already deleted messages, I will know.
> 3. Commit now to a polygraph test where we go over a time of what happened and with who on your 10 week business trip, the second trip and in vegas. Something happened to cuase your behavior and won't believe you until you do this.
> 4. Commit to me now that you will stop all interaction with male friends at work that is non-business including texts and emails and "having fun" together. It is unacceptable to me.
> 5. Commit to marriage counsleing and independant counseling for yourself.
> 
> If you cannot do these things, I cannot trust you and I cannot stay married. No discussion, no negotiating. This is what I need.


:iagree:


----------



## librarydragon

Oh, and by the way...I meant the kick your ass comment in the nicest most genuine way possible 

If you want to reconcile, you should...but do it right. You'll live a life of pain if you don't.


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks everyone. I'm sure not one of you expected the situations that presented themselves to you, whatever they may have been. For the first time in a long time I feel betrayed and unloved...been almost 8 1/2 years...almost a third of my life with this girl. Whether I did something to cause/enable this or not, I never thought I'd be where I am right now. Felt so strong this last week while prepping myself. Suddenly I'm questioning myself and what I can bring to the table. I know this will all be okay someday, but the truth is that I am in utter disbelief that I even have to deal with this. I don't deserve this. Sure, plenty of little things I wish I could change, lack of action here, lack of self-improvement there, complacency, and just plain giving myself over to the comfort zone. But certainly gave myself to her. The words she says used to be enough for me, because the actions were there too. Now the words say the same thing, but the actions are sooooo foreign. Maybe she got the same from me at some point, but certainly not in this way. Not in a way that takes everything important and crumples it and puts it in the wastebasket, in plain sight. As strong as I ever have thought I was, I'm now sitting in my backyard alone, dreading any conversation with the one person with whom it always came so easily. And the Twins SUCK, so I can't even enjoy the game on the radio.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Look up in the sky, see the stars and realize that the universe is a really big place. And that the world has billions of wonderful women. You don't need to be a part of this train wreck. You can have a wonderful life without her.

Cypress


----------



## librarydragon

Awww...see, now I want to scruff up your hair to try and make you feel better.

For someone who seems to be anti-alpha, 8years list is exactly right. Do it.


----------



## CH

Shamwow said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm sure not one of you expected the situations that presented themselves to you, whatever they may have been. For the first time in a long time I feel betrayed and unloved...been almost 8 1/2 years...almost a third of my life with this girl. Whether I did something to cause/enable this or not, I never thought I'd be where I am right now. Felt so strong this last week while prepping myself. Suddenly I'm questioning myself and what I can bring to the table. I know this will all be okay someday, but the truth is that I am in utter disbelief that I even have to deal with this. I don't deserve this. Sure, plenty of little things I wish I could change, lack of action here, lack of self-improvement there, complacency, and just plain giving myself over to the comfort zone. But certainly gave myself to her. The words she says used to be enough for me, because the actions were there too. Now the words say the same thing, but the actions are sooooo foreign. Maybe she got the same from me at some point, but certainly not in this way. Not in a way that takes everything important and crumples it and puts it in the wastebasket, in plain sight. As strong as I ever have thought I was, I'm now sitting in my backyard alone, dreading any conversation with the one person with whom it always came so easily. And the Twins SUCK, so I can't even enjoy the game on the radio.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, print out that list 8years had, post it on the fridge, post it on her computer, post it on the mirror in the bathroom, post it on the bedroom door, hell post it all over the damn house if you have to. Then ignore her and see what she does. If she takes it down and ignores you then you've got your answer from her. If she approaches you and is willing to do everything on the list then you know she wants to try.

Stop talking to her for now, everytime she opens her mouth you get kicked in the guts and get even more confused.

Just a suggestion.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm sure not one of you expected the situations that presented themselves to you, whatever they may have been. For the first time in a long time I feel betrayed and unloved...been almost 8 1/2 years...almost a third of my life with this girl. Whether I did something to cause/enable this or not, I never thought I'd be where I am right now. Felt so strong this last week while prepping myself. Suddenly I'm questioning myself and what I can bring to the table. I know this will all be okay someday, but the truth is that I am in utter disbelief that I even have to deal with this. I don't deserve this. Sure, plenty of little things I wish I could change, lack of action here, lack of self-improvement there, complacency, and just plain giving myself over to the comfort zone. But certainly gave myself to her. The words she says used to be enough for me, because the actions were there too. Now the words say the same thing, but the actions are sooooo foreign. Maybe she got the same from me at some point, but certainly not in this way. Not in a way that takes everything important and crumples it and puts it in the wastebasket, in plain sight. As strong as I ever have thought I was, I'm now sitting in my backyard alone, dreading any conversation with the one person with whom it always came so easily. And the Twins SUCK, so I can't even enjoy the game on the radio.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sorry for your pain. I think you need time away for just a bit to collect yourself. Hand her the list, maybe(?), and get yourself to a place where you have friends.


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## librarydragon

Consider also that the only way to keep her may be to leave her. She doesn't need to know this, but going dark may draw her back to you...


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## crossbar

Okay, here's the deal. I just read through your entire thread and you still have some homework to do.

Rule number one: If a cheaters lips are moving, they're usually lying. Don't believe anything she says. Verify!

You're extremely tech savy, so you have that covered.

You could get a check-mate kit to test those panties yourself, but they're not 100%. However, if the pad turns blue IMMEDIATELY, then chances are, it's semen. You can find a forensic lab to run tests on those panties at a price. And some can even check for nonoxynal 9 to see if a condom was used.

If she did in fact do something while away, now's the time to start planting Voice Activated Recorders in the house and plant one in her car. If she feels like she pulled this off, and pulled the wool over your eyes, she gonna want to talk about it to someone. It might sound crappy to snoop, but you have every right to know what's going on in your marriage. If your gut is telling you something isn't right. TRUST YOUR GUT!! Your gut is usually right.

Look, I know you don't want your marriage to end. I know you want to be married and happy. But, look at you now! Are you happy at all? Do you deserve to live like this? Stay the course and don't fall for the crocodile tears. Do you think she was crying when she went to Vegas with a couple of guys? Do, you think she was crying when she promised to come home and then changed her mind to PURPOSELY stay away from you? Do you think she was crying while she was possibly sleeping with one of them? Stay the course, dude.


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## zsu234

Some men just can't be reached


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## morituri

Lay off guys. Your shaming tactics will not help him one iota with his situation.


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## Shamwow

No, it's extremely helpful. Love to hear how much better others would handle my situation and life. 

Why am I here? For help in my time of wtf.

Thanks, to the overwhelming majority of you. Made my last week bearable. Where am I now? Confused and disappointed in reality.

To those who throw punches at me now, I'd ask why you're here? Because all is well and happy? 

Can't all do everything the way we want to on paper. I will prevail here, but if it takes me a couple rounds in the ring, what's the difference? This is my LIFE. Haven't had to think about it in such stark terms for a long time. If that makes me different from anyone here, I respectfully call bull****.

Would love to have given everyone a strong ending on the first try.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Sham - 

You have nothing to lose at this point - you aren't being given the proper amount of love and affection by your wife since April - it may only temporarily improve if you were to give in to her gaslighting - then wash, rinse, and repeat.

You have nothing to lose in giving her a printout of the list 8 put together - and in my mind - a polygraph test - if she wants you to stay. 

You are almost there. She has to be fully transparent. chin up, Sham. I am rooting for you.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> No, it's extremely helpful. Love to hear how much better others would handle my situation and life.
> 
> Why am I here? For help in my time of wtf.
> 
> Thanks, to the overwhelming majority of you. Made my last week bearable. Where am I now? Confused and disappointed in reality.
> 
> To those who throw punches at me now, I'd ask why you're here? Because all is well and happy?
> 
> Can't all do everything the way we want to on paper. I will prevail here, but if it takes me a couple rounds in the ring, what's the difference? This is my LIFE. Haven't had to think about it in such stark terms for a long time. If that makes me different from anyone here, I respectfully call bull****.
> 
> Would love to have given everyone a strong ending on the first try.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Time is your friend.


----------



## Avenger

Sham man I don't know if your still awake, but if you are read this post. I found this site by accident when searching Google. I then became curious and started to read peoples post's and then found yours I have been reading It for days now trying to see how this whole thing was going to unfold. Now I just can't take it anymore I want to tell you man that this is far from over! If you want to take your woman back then go for it! sometimes you have to cut the bad part off a tree to keep it from dyeing, basically you have to hurt her first for there to be any chance of regrowth. If there is a god, then she might still be able to be saved... Just think of this as one of the most difficult quests you have ever embarked on. Close your eyes and envision the embodiment of evil, it is grinning at you and telling you that your finished... But you know you have one last punch to throw and that's the one that will finish this once and for all, although when you collide someone is going to be destroyed... now what will be destroyed, this evil or your marriage? If you can wipe it out, you save her. Alternatively you can wipe them both out and walk away and start anew with whatever lucky lady gets a great guy like you. Whatever path you take, you will win. This is your destiny, take it into your own hands and go show everyone what I and everyone else knows you can do. The tools are right in front of you, time to create a masterpiece. P.S. listen to these songs to pump you up: Eminem lose yourself, fort minor remember the name and the most important one 30 seconds to mars closer to the edge. God be with you.


----------



## Stonewall

Entropy3000 said:


> Sham. My wife and I have total transparency. Many couples do this. It is not about snooping. In other words with no one hidng anything you allow our spouse access to your accounts. You do not hide anything. If someone closes something down you have a right to wonder. You also have a right to transparncy. If they refuse, that is not being faithful. This is usaully and agreed upon boundary. But the fact it was not passworded and it is now is a red flag.
> 
> Her excuse will be that you are threatening divorce and she has to protect herself. See that is a downside to threatening divorce. Once yoy lay that down and do not follow through the threat itself can justify bad behavior by the one who was threatened.
> 
> She actually may just be buying time right now for her to make her moves.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

we are the same way and have been since hitting some large speed bumbs 27 years ago.


----------



## Stonewall

Sham,

Eliminate any doubt by having the panties tested for DNA not just semen. Have your DNA tested as well. DNA is far more accurate than fingerprints (OJ notwithstanding). If they come up with semen that has a diff DNA profile then yours you have your irrefutable proof. Case closed. Your heart needs closure on this buddy. Don't blow this opportunity. She will never make a mistake like this again and leave panties around that are still dirty. Next time you will have to hire a PI and that will cost you way more than DNA testing.

Chin up!


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

Don't worry about all these non respectful postings, this is very hard situation to be in and for every 100 people giving you advice you will get 120 opinions.

you are doing extremely well under these circumstances and this may eventually get resolved one way or another, but not in this round tough

just keep being vigilant and open your eyes, get all the hard evidence you need, you can install a network sniffer at your home network and collect all network traffic from her computer and you will get all the evidence eventually

there is not much that your wife can say against hard evidence and if she comes to you again with the "Where do I sign " thing just present calmly the documents to her and let her sign them 

this on its own is pretty much the evidence for her true intentions 
(not to be married to you)

Best of Luck and stay strong


----------



## Halien

Sham,

Your wife is home, and there is a huge part of you that wants to recapture the magic of your relationship from the days when it was healthy, and fears that this confrontation will go so bad that you'll do more harm than good. Despite her expression, though, she is going through her own panic stage, and I'd be willing to bet that she wants to just get through this with a hint of a smile so she can claim a new job and get away for some distance.

You can't read her expressions, but she is in a panic, and knows that you are very close to uncovering her double life. She knows that you are very smart. In a bad economy, you proved this by creating a healthy freelance career. You are not the only one panicking, Sham.

This distance is the key. She wants it, but you need it. I really think that a short distance might give you a time to regather your thoughts and decide what to do. Initiating it might be easier than you think. Since she put passwords on her laptop, why not just sit down in front of it, with her, and ask her what she thinks needs to happen to salvage a bad situation? Is locking her computer the right way? Obviously, she will get a little angry. Hand her the list from 8years, and tell her that you love her, and want her to be in your life if the two of you can recover this trust. So, you want her to take this list and think about it for 24 hours.

I'm not sure if suggesting a course of action is helpful for you, but your posts sound like a man who thinks that she is immune to the fear that you are now feeling. The only difference is that she obviously realized that controlling you, and being calm, was her only option to get through this. She's likely counting the minutes until she can get away, with no demands from you.


----------



## sam83

Hello Sham 

I hope ur next post that u confronted her right this time 

I love the idea of printing 50 copy of 8 years list and put it everywhere in the house with additional note either this way or the high way 

you can also get the D paper and let us see if she'll really signs them as she said or just bluffing (sure 100% she is) 

Man u got the most brilliant tactics and plans here please pick one and play it right and u got my word you'll win this time 

be strong and man-up control ur feeling and then she'll love the man she is seeing and will do whatever u asking her for just play it right this time

best wishes for u


----------



## crossbar

The way I see it, your wife is just like a woman that got pulled over by the cops for speeding and turned on the water works to get out of a ticket. Well, you are the cop and you're buying into it and letting her off with a warning. One thing you have to understand is that if there are no consequences to her actions she will do this to you again. May not be next week, or next month or even next year. But, it will happen again. Why? Because she knows she can get away with it.

I bet that if you acted indifferent to the tears and the comments about the lawyer plowing her over in the divorce, I GUARANTEE YOU she would be singing a different tune. She would be in panic mode instead of "whoa is me" and BEGGING YOU to forgive her and not divorce her and what not.

I still say plant VAR around the house and in her car. I have a feeling that she thinks she got away with this and she's gonna talk to someone about this stating, "Whew, that was close!"

She just got back and she really hasn't had any time to really talk to someone about this yet, so strike when the anvil is hot!


----------



## Gabriel

As far as 8 years list goes, I disagree with the polygraph. I hate it when people bring this up. I agree with everything else on the list though, 100%. If you have to polygraph your spouse, just end the marriage. It's demeaning, forceful, and has no place in a marriage. It should be used for legal crimes.

Counseling only works for the people who want to go. I am a counseling advocate - the few times I went it was very helpful. I told my wife I was going to go with or without her. I made the appointment, and when she saw me take action, she decided to go with me, despite not liking the idea. Now she is the one asking when we can go again.

Full transparency is a MUST. But do it both ways. Tell her you will give your yours as well. That way you both can look at each other's emails and such. It's a liberating feeling, let me tell you. My wife and I did this.

To the poster much earlier that seems to think most of us didn't reconcile or try. My wife and I are in the midst of R now. Almost 4 months past D Day. We are doing fairly well - with occasional rough spots. But mostly we are a success story. So dumping the wife is not my M.O.

Sham - feel free to message me if you have any questions about my situation or how we got through it. Too long to list here.


----------



## PHTlump

Gabriel said:


> As far as 8 years list goes, I disagree with the polygraph. I hate it when people bring this up. I agree with everything else on the list though, 100%. If you have to polygraph your spouse, just end the marriage. It's demeaning, forceful, and has no place in a marriage. It should be used for legal crimes.


The polygraph is simply ensuring the transparency. If the wife has been honest about everything, then the polygraph will verify that. If she hasn't, the polygraph will show that as well. A woman can't manipulate a polygraph. She can't stonewall and rugsweep and gaslight a machine. She's driven SW crazy. She's taken overwhelming evidence of an affair and nearly convinced SW that he's nuts for suspecting her. If a polygraph will cut through that haze, then it's valuable.

And I agree it's demeaning. But, it doesn't even begin to compare to the humiliation of your wife sleeping with other men. A loving wife who had not cheated would never want her husband to be so heart-broken as he would be if he believed that she had cheated. She would willingly take a polygraph to take away those fears from her husband.

It's the cheating or unloving wife who will act offended and stonewall the suggestion of a polygraph. It reminds me of the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal where Clinton ran the cheater script to the letter. "I didn't have sex. I wouldn't. I couldn't. OK, fine I did it. Let's move on."


----------



## Amplexor

The mods are all over this thread. Meatloaf was banned before I could pull the trigger. Another is on the bubble. I have spent 20 minutes this morning cleaning up the thread for hijacks and disrespectful posts. Please keep it focused for the OP, he's got a train wreck on his hands and stop the disrespectful posts. I'd hate to have to lock it down, he needs the advice. Thanks all.


----------



## Halien

Amplexor said:


> The mods are all over this thread. Meatloaf was banned before I could pull the trigger. I have spent 20 minutes this morning cleaning up the thread for hijacks and disrespectful posts. Please keep it focused for the OP, he's got a train wreck on his hands and stop the disrespectful posts. I'd hate to have to lock it down, he needs the advice. Thanks all.


Thanks, Amp. It is also encouraging to see that Sham is above their neanderthal goading, too.


----------



## Halien

Sham, I forgot to mention the reason that I was suggesting a brief time of space from her. When my wife and I were thinking about divorce, I bought a really good book by a local attorney on the implications of divorce in my state. He made an interesting comment in the forward, based upon his years in practice. He said that when you deliver an ultimatum to try to save the marriage, realize that the other person often follows a predictable chain of thoughts. First is anger and pushback. That was why he recommended not being with the person for the first 24 yours, because it is often followed by a sense of loss. This is a stage where many may realize that they may be losing something really good, despite the fog. At the very least, if there is going to be a desire for compliance, this would be the place where you could start holding realistic discussions, if it is possible.

Regardless of how you choose to proceed, I wish for you to find inner peace.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Sham, I forgot to mention the reason that I was suggesting a brief time of space from her. When my wife and I were thinking about divorce, I bought a really good book by a local attorney on the implications of divorce in my state. He made an interesting comment in the forward, based upon his years in practice. He said that when you deliver an ultimatum to try to save the marriage, realize that the other person often follows a predictable chain of thoughts. First is anger and pushback. *That was why he recommended not being with the person for the first 24 yours, because it is often followed by a sense of loss. *This is a stage where many may realize that they may be losing something really good, despite the fog. At the very least, if there is going to be a desire for compliance, this would be the place where you could start holding realistic discussions, if it is possible.
> 
> Regardless of how you choose to proceed, I wish for you to find inner peace.


This makes all the sense in the world to me. They need to move through stages to deal with it. The early reactions are less than helpful and one should avoid this interaction as it likely causes lost focus and slows down moving to the next level(s). 

This of course makes sense for ultimatums period. You see this in the business world all the time.


----------



## morituri

Gabriel said:


> As far as 8 years list goes, I disagree with the polygraph. I hate it when people bring this up. I agree with everything else on the list though, 100%. *If you have to polygraph your spouse, just end the marriage. It's demeaning, forceful, and has no place in a marriage.* It should be used for legal crimes.


If it's only for one spouse then I agree with this statement. Instead why not insist on *BOTH* spouses taking one in the name of mutual transparency and fairness? It would very hard for his wife to argue that Shamwow is being unfair to her if he himself offers to undergo one.

If the marriage is to survive and be rebuilt, BOTH Shamwow and his wife have to be mutually accountable to one another.


----------



## seeking sanity

Respectfully to all: I think 8's list is premature. Until she is willing to even acknowledge something has happened, there is no chance she's going to even listen to him. Making demands about transparency and whatnot, only work after the wayward admits to cheating.

His immediate problem is getting her to confess. The confession will only come out of undeniable evidence, or if she feels he is truly willing to divorce her if she doesn't confess.

After the confession and assuming she has a desire to reconcile, is when the rules of reconciliation are discussed.


----------



## morituri

You are right that it is premature for Shamwow to lay out the 8's list to her before she shows any remorse and willingness to come clean, but I believe that it is better that he have it now than later on.


----------



## seeking sanity

If you think about it like a process, it goes like this:

- Suspicion
- Confession
- R or Divorce?
- if R, then transparency, disclosure, etc.
- if D, then move out, etc.


Right now, SW is in the suspicion phase. He can't skip to reconciliation until he has a confession.

Lot's of couples end up in limbo because they can't get past the Reconcile or Divorce phase - they can't decide.


----------



## sam83

seeking sanity said:


> If you think about it like a process, it goes like this:
> 
> - Suspicion
> - Confession
> - R or Divorce?
> - if R, then transparency, disclosure, etc.
> - if D, then move out, etc.
> 
> 
> Right now, SW is in the suspicion phase. He can't skip to reconciliation until he has a confession.
> 
> Lot's of couples end up in limbo because they can't get past the Reconcile or Divorce phase - they can't decide.


in middle east and Arabic countries we do all these steps in about 10-20 minutes and R is almost never an option 

oh guys I read in some posts here images take 6 months - 2 years to go away and not all as well I can't imagine any cheating woman or man deserve this work and effort but again that's just me and other about 60 million people in Egypt


----------



## golfergirl

sam83 said:


> in middle east and Arabic countries we do all these steps in about 10-20 minutes and R is almost never an option
> 
> oh guys I read in some posts here images take 6 months - 2 years to go away and not all as well I can't imagine any cheating woman or man deserve this work and effort but again that's just me and other about 60 million people in Egypt


Sham,
Just letting you know I'm rooting for you! For strength and peace! For the rug being pulled out from under you, you'r doing amazing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sam83

golfergirl said:


> Sham,
> Just letting you know I'm rooting for you! For strength and peace! For the rug being pulled out from under you, you'r doing amazing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no I'm not the OP I'm just replying here


----------



## golfergirl

sam83 said:


> no I'm not the OP I'm just replying here


Sorry Sam! I just clicked on last message - really limited on BB. But I admire you too!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

morituri said:


> If it's only for one spouse then I agree with this statement. Instead why not insist on *BOTH* spouses taking one in the name of mutual transparency and fairness? It would very hard for his wife to argue that Shamwow is being unfair to her if he himself offers to undergo one.
> 
> If the marriage is to survive and be rebuilt, BOTH Shamwow and his wife have to be mutually accountable to one another.


Word ^


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## 8yearscheating

Sham,
This is third time I have written this up. I keep fat fingering and losing it all! I think I remember where you are and you can read through this and see if you can apply any of my logic to your path forward.
In my situation, things had gotten very bad – my wife had moved into a different room of the house and was telling me she wasn’t sure she wanted to stay married and needed space to sort herself out. I had no idea about her A’s. We went to marriage counselor and she essentially said she was all done with me. She wanted a divorce and there was no changing her mind. We were there only to help sort through the separation and D. I started seeing an IC immediately. It was my IC that asked If I was sure she wasn’t having an affair to which I replied I was certain she wasn’t. But I began to question if it was possible because nothing that was going on made any sense. I started digging into phone records. A number kept showing up that I didn’t recognize and dummy me never searched for it my own phone. She was extremely protective of her phone and was often leaving the room to use it or staying up late on it. I told her one day I needed to apply some updates to it and could I see it unlocked. Yes it was a lie. I synced it with the home computer because I knew she hadn’t done that in a very long time. I then used textpad and opened the backup file of the deleted text messages because she was keeping the messages emptied out, the same with her email. I read a lot of sexting messages that were extremely graphic and also talked of meeting somewhere. I now had the information and my head was spinning. I had to know who it was. I confronted her. At first she played dumb, “I don’t know what that is”. I told it was from her from her phone and her number and asked who the other number was. She wouldn’t say and went to bed. I kept looking running reverse number look ups with Intelius. Initially it kept giving me bad information. I finally tried another site and up popped a long time friend of mine business name. I woke her up and asked how long. She said 8 years – my name on here.

Fast forward a bit, I was spinning in circles for weeks. How could she? Did she love me at all and was the last 20 years all a lie? She had finally confessed in the last MC session – a safe haven for her. (Note I believe waiting to start is bad – IF she is comfortable with the MC more will come out – our MC was the person she had been seeing as an IC initially and she was comfortable) I now knew it was 20 years with 2 short term 20 years ago when she moved out with severe post partum. We went to MC then and as soon as it ended she started up with our mutual friend thinking he was safer than someone she didn’t know.
Again I was spinning. She didn’t want to stop. She had too much of a connection with him. She went and got another phone which I found the box to in her car. I had a bother in law who had an affair and he was my sounding board. I had been there for him anytime he needed things while he was in the service and we were great friends. His constant counsel was” I tell you what I would do but this you and not me, you need to decide what to do and ignore everyone else” He also constantly told me he was amazed at my tenacity and love for her. He was in awe of the fact that I never stopped fighting for her.
My thoughts at this time spun in and out of mind movies and triggers that dragged me into the abyss. I was ****ed, dressed for night and sitting in front of the OM’s house ready to turn him into a woman and watch him bleed out then do myself. Comments on here about her being f’ed, she didn’t give a **** about me, being a wh0re etc. kept reigniting those triggers and movies. They also drove my anger to new heights at times because they were attacking the woman I still loved. I knew somewhere inside there she still loved me.
I finally came to a realization that I would not give in and walk, I would fight as long as it took. She had always had serious problems with depression and I knew that we could make it if she could just stop contact. She wanted to leave and divorce. It was the easy way out for her – no pain to face in me, setting me free in her mind. By the way, I had seen my doctor before this and gotten anti depressants and Xanax – an anti anxiety for use on the long drive to and from work when I crying all of the time and unable to pull out of the high speed dive at the ground I was in. The meds helped stabilize me and allowed me to start thinking without the spirals out of control. DO NOT be afraid to do this. I was always anti-meds. It makes you no less of man and will allow you to use reason in your thinking.
So – at this point, I decided I had to put the options on the table I posted about. I knew she already thought D and separation were the way she wanted to go so it really wasn’t as much of a threat as calling the bluff and making her see the reality of what she was proposing. Seeing the financial consequences, the dissolution of the life we had enjoyed, dealing with our kids and destroying their world, and last but not least destroying me were the things she truly had to face to come out of the self absorption. I started the conversation by telling her I was self destructing. I did not want divorce and did not want to lose her. But I had to prevent my own destruction. If she was insistent on D, I would have to face it and move on. I would eventually find someone who could love me like I deserved. I then laid out the choices. When I was done, I refused to discuss more and told her to think about it and get back to me in no less than 24 hours. I would not talk until she had some time to really think and I thought that would take at least 24 hours if not 2 days. She came to me the next evening and told me she was willing to try. There were a lot more discussions over the next week about an hour at a time to define what the terms I listed meant. I did not pile all on in the beginning because it was too much to digest – first she needed to be willing and NC, then we would establish the rest of my boundaries and requirements.
SO, for you – first and foremost YOU must decide if you can fight or your done. I think you want to fight for her. Next, get your needs out there to even try to reconcile. The idea of divorce is completely her choosing and you leave that firmly in her court to decide. You do not allow her to leave you in limbo – you will go crazy and may self destruct. Remember, even if she didn’t do anything sexual, her behavior has shredded your heart and trust. You must begin to feel you are making some positive progress before you will feel like your life is not out of control. What you are asking is for BOTH of you to be a team and slay this dragon (pun intended ) that has invaded your marriage. You can tell her you are compassionate about how she feels and the problems she is having and want to help no matter WHAT happened. But the first step is her’s. You cannot force, you cannot make up her mind, you cannot change how she feels until you two are working as one. It is a compassionate, honest approach and will DO NO HARM. If she chooses otherwise, you have done everything and more than could be asked of you and can walk away knowing you did without regrets you could have done better. I snese from her words she does truly still love you deeply. She is screaming for help but doesn’t how. Lead her out of this insanity. She does not have the brass everyone thinks she does. She is self destructing in guilt and remorse. Give her a chance to take your hand and walk into the future together to build a new relationship based on honesty.


----------



## 8yearscheating

On the poly - I suggested that for two reasons. If she insistent that she telling the truth now, she has a chance to prove it together with opening her computer mail and phone. SHe also has a chance to come clean without it, knowing she will be caught if she is lying. Make it an option to prove herself - not as a method to out her. If she refuses, ask her why she wouldn't want to prove her story!

On waiting for her to show desire to R before putting the list out there, she needs to know you cannot survive in limbo. The list is just a start with a lot more to come when R starts. If she does truly want to stay with you - it is an open invitation to start or not and puts the ball squarely in her court. You are not controlling, you are giving her a choice. The outcome of all that has happened is in her hands. YOU MUST give her time to digest and think before discussing it. STICK TO THAT PLEASE.


----------



## 8yearscheating

SOrry I went so long. I wan't you to be able to see the paralells and draw you own conclusions as to how it fits your situation. DECIDE FOR YOURSELF HOW TO DO IT.


----------



## Amplexor

8 Has been banned for violating forum rules. This is a one week ban and I hope he comes back. This thread has again required moderation. For those of you who are offering valid and respectful advice thank you and please carry on. The OP needs it. For those who wish to attack the OP, his wife, other posters or in any way jack this thread again my lenience has worn thin and you will be banned.


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## Shamwow

She synced her phone to her computer about 2 weeks ago. Does that mean if I can gain access to her computer I can get to the backup log of deleted texts and forward to myself? I'm tech savvy, but new to the iPhone (couple months).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Yes. You can recover all the text messages deleted in the last two weeks.

You should really work on your Google-fu.
Recover deleted text message iPhone | Apple iPhone News


----------



## disappointed123

Shamwow said:


> She synced her phone to her computer about 2 weeks ago. Does that mean if I can gain access to her computer I can get to the backup log of deleted texts and forward to myself? I'm tech savvy, but new to the iPhone (couple months).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Undelete SMS: Recover Deleted SMS Messages - Apps, Cydia, iOS

http://www.ilovefreesoftware.com/18/iphone/download-iphone-backup-extractor-free.html


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## Almostrecovered

the alternative is to get a sim card reader but that requires being able to get to her open it up, take out the card, insert it into a reader while attached to your computer and then putting everything back before she knows PLUS in temp memory, texts get written over quickly if used heavily which sounds like your wife is a text addict but you should be able to retrieve the last 200-400 texts or so- the sooner the better


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## Shamwow

How about Skype messages? She's started doing that a lot lately. Will hot google this afternoon as shell be out for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> How about Skype messages? She's started doing that a lot lately. Will hot google this afternoon as shell be out for a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


youll need a keylogger if she's skypeing on the laptop as it's password protected, plus she's probably deleting the conversation archives anyways, if she's skypeing on the iphone I have no idea if a record is kept


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## Almostrecovered

and I'll say it again- Tell the OM's wife


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## aug

Shamwow said:


> She synced her phone to her computer about 2 weeks ago. Does that mean if I can gain access to her computer I can get to the backup log of deleted texts and forward to myself? I'm tech savvy, but new to the iPhone (couple months).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you google this string "retrieve deleted iphone texts from backup", the top few results should help.

For me, the 3rd result of decipher___ shows how to get it from the backup file. So you can recover sms older than 2 weeks?

hth


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> How about Skype messages? She's started doing that a lot lately. Will hot google this afternoon as shell be out for a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Skype. Wow. That includes video capability too.

has she been doing skype message and or video with you at all yet?


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## disappointed123

I didnt notice if you said it or not, but does she password protect her phone?


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## ManDup

8yearscheating said:


> I'll revise a few words - IF you want me *to try* to stay married - no commitments until I see actions.


This and the original, 8years comes through in the end. Congrats bro, at first about you I was :scratchhead: now I'm all :smthumbup:.


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## Mike11

Sham 

if she uses the home network you can sniff the wireless traffic and get the skype texts

however you will not be able to get anything if she is not at home with her laptop


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## aug

A suggestion: go to the iphone backup directory and copy the whole directory onto a flash drive. Then you will have time on your own computer to go thru it.

I dont know if this would work retrieving sms, but it cant hurt to have a copy of the backup.


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## Shamwow

She's skyping on her phone. We have used it to video chat from our laptops before, but never for typing, and never from our phones. Will look into the sniffer thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Both phone and computer are locked. I can't get in. Plan to grab her closed laptop casually while she's there as if I wanna surf something (it's sitting on end table in living room, closed). When I see it's locked, conversation can begin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ticonderoga

There must be away to get into her computer. Is there any place you could quickly take it to get the hard drive downloaded ??


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## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Both phone and computer are locked. I can't get in. Plan to grab her closed laptop casually while she's there as if I wanna surf something (it's sitting on end table in living room, closed). When I see it's locked, conversation can begin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. You definitely don't need any snooping software or techniques or panties or anything. You already know she cheated. What you need is transparency from her. If she won't give that under threat of divorce, you have your answer. "Unlock this computer. If you don't right now, I walk. After the lying and the going to Vegas with other men who sent you porn and stayed in a different hotel from your coworkers 'to hang with them', I need full transparency." Don't take excuses or no for an answer. If you got nothing to hide...

I realize it's scary to lose her. But the universe is full of love, and it wants you to be strong. You may get her back - that can only happen once you show her you aren't afraid to lose her. Strength is sexy. Weakness is ugly.


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## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Both phone and computer are locked. I can't get in. Plan to grab her closed laptop casually while she's there as if I wanna surf something (it's sitting on end table in living room, closed). When I see it's locked, conversation can begin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Awesome! You seem to be more collected, Sham. I hope you are well.


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## lht285

I have read the entire thread, first of all I am sorry you are going through this Shamwow. That being said the conversation should have started the moment she password protected her laptop. I would basically lay it out that an innocent person would not have locked down her phone and laptop when confronted. 

Sadly the next step is to ask her if she really is interested in continuing the marriage. If she says yes, then I would say that marriages survive through open communication, and that she is not opening up, either to try and protect herself long enough to get the assets to take care of herself, or because she is afraid you will find out what is going on. Immediately ask her to remove the passwords and sit down and go over everything with her AT THAT MOMENT. It is going to be painful. If she will not, then it is time to move out. 

If you move out it could be over, but you need to tell her that you will not be second to anyone in your marriage. 

I would also say that if you can handle it tell her that there is a chance to reconcile if she is 100 percent HONEST with you. You have to find out why she decided to place you second. I am cheering you on, and support you!


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## Whip Morgan

Wow. Mods hovering, members getting banned, 60+ pages in about two weeks, and a F**king earthquake-this thread is epic.

Sham, youve moved off the underwear to seeing the phone and computer locked- it keeps adding up. I feel confident that you will not cave next time. Now, when is the next time? Don't let this fester too long. I think you've learned a lesson from the posters here are your first confrontation. Regroup and back into the fray. You got this. Stay strong, rooting for you.

And yes, the Twins do suck. How does that giant Mauer contract taste? GO RED SOX
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thehusband2

Shamwow said:


> She synced her phone to her computer about 2 weeks ago. Does that mean if I can gain access to her computer I can get to the backup log of deleted texts and forward to myself? I'm tech savvy, but new to the iPhone (couple months).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey Sham

Read your entire thread...man I am sorry you are going through this ... its horrible.. I wish you strength and clarity!!!

Here are the files to look for on your WW's cpu:

1) These are all text messages synced to cpu (deleted or not): 3d0d7e5fb2ce288813306e4d4636395e047a3d28

2) These are all her contacts stored on phone: 31bb7ba8914766d4ba40d6dfb6113c8b614be442


----------



## Shamwow

Whip Morgan said:


> Sham, youve moved off the underwear to seeing the phone and computer locked- it keeps adding up. I feel confident that you will not cave next time. Now, when is the next time? Don't let this fester too long. I think you've learned a lesson from the posters here are your first confrontation. Regroup and back into the fray. You got this. Stay strong, rooting for you._Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't moved off anything. The panties were dropped off at the lab today, there is a VAR installed under the front seat of the car, and I have another I'm going to put behind the radiator in her office momentarily. I've also grabbed her backup external drive, which was last backed up on 8-9. Haven't found the mobile sync folder yet though...there are backups from the last year on this thing. Copying it to my machine so I can work on it as time permits.

She's out for the next few hours, so it's go time.


----------



## Shamwow

FOUND the MobileSync folder. BOOM. Gotta be something here.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Wow. Mods hovering, members getting banned, 60+ pages in about two weeks, and a F**king earthquake-*this thread is epic.*
> 
> Sham, youve moved off the underwear to seeing the phone and computer locked- it keeps adding up. I feel confident that you will not cave next time. Now, when is the next time? Don't let this fester too long. I think you've learned a lesson from the posters here are your first confrontation. Regroup and back into the fray. You got this. Stay strong, rooting for you.
> 
> And yes, the Twins do suck. How does that giant Mauer contract taste? GO RED SOX
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is an epic thread. It is for sure a clinic for us guys.


----------



## librarydragon

Shamwow said:


> I haven't moved off anything. The panties were dropped off at the lab today, there is a VAR installed under the front seat of the car, and I have another I'm going to put behind the radiator in her office momentarily. I've also grabbed her backup external drive, which was last backed up on 8-9. Haven't found the mobile sync folder yet though...there are backups from the last year on this thing. Copying it to my machine so I can work on it as time permits.
> 
> She's out for the next few hours, so it's go time.


You go, Sham!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Wow. You were all right. And so was I. Tons of really graphic stuff in these deleted texts. Back and forth, can't even type it here. No talk of actually having done things (in the .000001% that I've been able to read so far), but she has lied to me for the last time. She said there was never anything inappropriate (besides the porn he sent). This s**t is out of hand.


----------



## Shamwow

Will be gone when she gets back tonight. No way around that. FML.


----------



## Mike11

Sorry Sham that you had to figure that out like that 

Stay strong, at least you know that you were not crazy


----------



## jayde

Shamwow said:


> I haven't moved off anything. The panties were dropped off at the lab today, there is a VAR installed under the front seat of the car, and I have another I'm going to put behind the radiator in her office momentarily. I've also grabbed her backup external drive, which was last backed up on 8-9. Haven't found the mobile sync folder yet though...there are backups from the last year on this thing. Copying it to my machine so I can work on it as time permits.
> 
> She's out for the next few hours, so it's go time.


I dunno . . .you said she's scary when she turns on the big guns . . . has she see you in this kind of action.

Go Man!


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> FOUND the MobileSync folder. BOOM. Gotta be something here.


Where and how? Maybe I need to go grab my wife's backup hard drive next time she is out. 

Edit: (gulp) nevermind, you found what you were looking for and have much more to deal with ...sorry Sham, stay strong


----------



## Shamwow

Macintosh HD/Users/[her user name]/Library/Application Support/MobileSync. In there is a folder called Backup. Everything is in there. Just do like TheHunsband2 said, search for the file "3d0d7e5fb2ce288813306e4d4636395e047a3d28". Copy to your desktop. Download TextPad, install, and then open the backup files in TextPad. Hard to read, but keep scrolling and it's all there.


----------



## bryanp

It is good that you have finally found another smoking gun. She clearly has no problem whatsoever lying to your face. I would suggest that you get tested for STD's and contact your lawyer immediately to proceed. Ask yourself why you would wish to love a woman who constantly hurts and betrays you on so many levels?

Her actions indicate that she has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## SadSamIAm

Hang on Shamwow!!!

Not sure you have anything yet. No show your cards. Wait for a more recent backup. One that shows texts after the weekend. We will be sure to find evidence of what went on while she was away. 

You need concrete evidence of a PA. Don't show her anything. Don't look suspicious. Wait and look and once you find the evidence, then it will be time to confront her.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham,

Sorry to hear that. Although I'm not surprised, and deep down I don't think you were either. However, to actually see it for yourself - knife in the heart. This sucks. SAVE ALL THE MESSAGES! Once she realizes what happened, she just might light her sh*t on fire. Keep it safe. Sometimes a DS will try to spin the story against you to friends and family - now you have a safeguard against it, along with whatever the VARs and underwear testing gives you. 

Now, when this all goes down - stay strong, COMPOSED AND CALM - and if she throws another tantrum, hang up the phone.

Do you intend to leave any message, or are you just bolting? I think it would be a good idea to leave something for her to realize you nailed her as* to the wall this time.

Good luck dude, keep posting!


----------



## Thehusband2

Shamwow said:


> Wow. You were all right. And so was I. Tons of really graphic stuff in these deleted texts. Back and forth, can't even type it here. No talk of actually having done things (in the .000001% that I've been able to read so far), but she has lied to me for the last time. She said there was never anything inappropriate (besides the porn he sent). This s**t is out of hand.


What kind of S**t??? Can you see dates and times??


----------



## Shamwow

SadSamIAm said:


> Hang on Shamwow!!!
> 
> Not sure you have anything yet. No show your cards. Wait for a more recent backup. One that shows texts after the weekend. We will be sure to find evidence of what went on while she was away.
> 
> You need concrete evidence of a PA. Don't show her anything. Don't look suspicious. Wait and look and once you find the evidence, then it will be time to confront her.


Why do I need evidence of a PA to leave? This s**t is sick.


----------



## Mike11

I agree with SadSam

Don't pull the trigger yet

Wait until you have hard evidence


----------



## Shamwow

Thehusband2 said:


> What kind of S**t??? Can you see dates and times??


Sexting..."you'd be driving and I'd be f**gering your p****, and then I'd have to l**k it clean."

"ooh, gonna so shower and grab my vibrator. C**k in hand? Porn in front of you?"



Enough for ya?

(sorry for graphic nature, but was asked, so I gave a little taste of what I've seen so far)


----------



## WhereAmI

Make sure to keep copies of everything you find so the OM can't gaslight his BW when you get around to informing her. You're doing great. Remember that you don't need to communicate with her after you leave. Going NC for a few days will be good for the both of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Because you have had tons of evidence for a while. It wasn't enough. She made you think it was harmless. She will talk her way out of it until you have more evidence.

The evidence is there. If you are mad enough, go ahead and leave, but there is more there. Demand her pass code for her phone. Sync it and then read the latest. 

I just think based on how you handled her last time, you should wait until you have more evidence.


----------



## Shamwow

Also stuff about "leaving my husband, blah, blah, blah".


----------



## aeg512

If you intention is to go ahead and leave, you could print off a lot ot the text and leave them on the table for her to read when she returns.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, keep reading them, keep looking. Save them. Then don't go back and reread and rehash - it will destroy you. But you have to keep going to see if they actually did the deed, which is 98% sure.

Read my much earlier post on this thread where I theorized why she called you crying from that restaurant. The different rejection theories. One of them is true.


----------



## thecw

SadSamIAm said:


> Hang on Shamwow!!!
> 
> Not sure you have anything yet. No show your cards. Wait for a more recent backup. One that shows texts after the weekend. We will be sure to find evidence of what went on while she was away.
> 
> You need concrete evidence of a PA. Don't show her anything. Don't look suspicious. Wait and look and once you find the evidence, then it will be time to confront her.


Yes, agree with above. Sham...let the dust settle, let her get comfortable again as you prepare a longterm and permanent exit-strategy. Living out of hotels is rough. Do it the right way. 

You will need to be around family to get you through this. Hopefully you have family who can be your support because there will be rough days ahead. If at all possible, start planning a move out of the city. You cannot get on with your life and heal living in the same city as her. Start detaching yourself from this marriage, but do your best to give the impression everything is getting better, or even ok. In the meantime, plan your exit and maybe you'll even get more incriminating evidence, but you already have enough even if you don't.


----------



## Shamwow

SadSamIAm said:


> Because you have had tons of evidence for a while. It wasn't enough. She made you think it was harmless. She will talk her way out of it until you have more evidence.


She can't talk her way out of what I've seen. I asked her point blank several times about whether anything ever got inappropriate, she denied and laghued. Denied and laughed. Denied and f***ing laughed while looking me right in the eye.

She can't claim ANYTHING innocent about that.

She has the car right now. When she gets back I'll have what I need packed (again) and easily accessible in the garage behind some stuff. Then I'll drop the papers on the table, tell her I'm done being lied to, I have proof, and I'm gone. Or maybe I'll just print a few of the texts to put with the D papers and call it good.


----------



## Gabriel

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when this thread is over. Sham, I wish a few of us could get together, buy you a drink. This is some really tough stuff - you are doing very well. Keep us posted and we will advise the best we can along the way.


----------



## SadSamIAm

She will tell you she was just having fun. Yes, she went overboard with the graphic talk, but nothing happened. 

I am sure all this sexting was 'foreplay' for what they did later in Vegas. Wait and you will get what they actually did. You will never find this evidence if you show her what you have now.

You may be mad enough to leave now, but will you be mad enough to stay away? I think you need direct proof of a physical affair. Something she can't talk herself out of something. Something that you can use to either divorce her or force her to 8s demands for reconciliation.


----------



## MarriedTex

So, first, ask yourself if you are done with her. I personally would be done, but you may still have different feelings. Those would be perfectly valid. Don't let an Internet lynch mob make decisions that will impact the rest of your life.

That said, you now have an opportunity to stand up for yourself and make her sweat. Leaving a note that expresses your displease but keeps things vague will turn the tables on her. If you go dark for 24 to 48 hours, she will get a taste of her own medicine. In the process, you get dignity back, allowing you to decide whether to take her back.

A short sweet note saying "I discovered more of your lies. Contact me only to tell 100% truth or to sign the divorce papers."

Then, go dark, dark, dark. Let her stew in the mess she has created.


----------



## Voiceofreason

"Why do I need evidence of a PA to leave? This s**t is sick."

You don't...you have more than enough to leave...you did before your first confrontation...it is up to you how much is enough for you to leave her...entirely up to you...those telling you to wait are suggesting you might get all the goods on her...does it really matter at this point? You know the answer.


----------



## WhereAmI

Angel5112 said:


> Does anyone think he should stay and confront her that way he can get as much "evidence" as possible for his lawyer? Maybe get the VAR and record their convo. Plus it might also give him some closure to see her reaction when she figures out that he has her nailed to the wall. I could be way off though.


I think he should text her one of the more repulsive lines the OM sent to her (as though its his own) when he's out of the house and she's likely near a room with a VAR. She'll call OM right away to cement their story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Her birthday is in two days. Any thoughts on a gift?


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, she might not be able to talk her way out of being inappropriate, but maybe she can say it was all just joking around, that they never did anything, that her biggest crime was just fantasizing via text. That's bad enough, IMO, to leave, but I'm with the others above and think you should keep gathering while she's gone. And yes, take off before she gets there. You are in no condition to deal with her in person right now.


----------



## Gabriel

I was going to say vibrator (since you won't be doing that anytime soon for her), but from the txt it sounds like she has one.


----------



## Thehusband2

Were these texts from the d*ckhead OM - the one who followed to whereever she worked?? Scum bag sleeze ...


----------



## Shamwow

Thehusband2 said:


> Were these texts from the d*ckhead OM - the one who followed to whereever she worked?? Scum bag sleeze ...


Yep. Him, and as far as I can tell, only him.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Sham ... you have proven to everyone how much you love her. She has you wrapped around her fingers. You had plenty of evidence to leave before she came home. I am worried the same thing will happen again if you confront her with the 'sexting'. 

You are angry, but that anger will go away fast when her tears flow and she is apologizing. She will admit to nothing physical. You need that evidence.

Borrow her car when she gets home. Listen to the VAR. That might get you the evidence of a PA. You are so close. At the very least, ask for her cell phone, or take it away from her when she is using it. Tell her you want to upgrade the software for it and get it synced. 

Wait for another day, and you will have the evidence that she actually did it. You are so close to getting your answers.


----------



## Shamwow

Okay, mybe I shouldn't go off the deep end. I can't confront her about this right now, so I either have to leave quietly when she gets back with MY car (we just sold hers 2 weeks ago...oops) in a couple hours and drop the papers on the table when she's not looking, then slip out...or I have to keep my mouth shut for a day or two and get myself more situated. Not worried about living in a hotel for a few days. End of the month, should be able to get a sublet for a month somewhere across town pretty easy.

Meantime, maybe I can still do the "unlock your laptop" thing. If she does, I'll grab any backups more current than what I have (which caps out at 2 weeks ago), then leave on Saturday. Her birthday.

If she doesn't unlock it, I can just play dumb a little while longer, and surprise the crap out of her.

Lying to my face, right into my eyes.


----------



## seeking sanity

Are you sure you want to move out and not ask HER to move out?


----------



## baldmale

Why are you the one leaving when she is the cheater? I'd pack HER things and leave 'em by the door.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Hmm, on second thought Sham - the above posters might be right about holding off. While you have now (and have HAD) more than enough proof, a little more couldn't hurt. I'd definitely check the VARs and try the laptop. 

Whatever you do, you know she'll try to work against you, deny the evidence. Its a matter of you being strong enough to shut her down - the issue it has been since you put pieces together that she was up to no good. Good call on the VARs my man.


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

Be prepared that she will pull that "where do I sign" [email protected] on you again
to some extent I have a feeling that she might be using this as exit strategy and will happy to sign those papers

I am not saying that this is the case but be ready for that 
I have read of many WW that are using affairs as exit strategies


----------



## Thehusband2

Ok

I hear some of you when you say sham has plenty NOW in order to leave

But I also understand when others say to go get more evidence.

It comes down to the relationship/personality...for some it would already be too much and plenty of motivation to leave

For sham, other and, I feel, myself if faced with this, I would need more because, well... thats just me (call it weak, love, whatever...) 

Sham if you need more motivation/evidence to leave...get it...it sounds like there will be more unfortunetly. And then leave, never look back! You will know without a doubt that you did right


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> Sham
> 
> Be prepared that she will pull that "where do I sign" [email protected] on you again
> to some extent I have a feeling that she might be using this as exit strategy and will happy to sign those papers
> 
> I am not saying that this is the case but be ready for that
> I have read of many WW that are using affairs as exit strategies


Clearly, one of the texts was talking about leaving me, in a casual joking way. She's got her plans in place.


----------



## thecw

baldmale said:


> Why are you the one leaving when she is the cheater? I'd pack HER things and leave 'em by the door.


House is in her name. Push come to shove she calls the cops on Sham and he has no right to be there.


----------



## Shamwow

thecw said:


> House is in her name. Push come to shove she calls the cops on Sham and he has no right to be there.


Yep. Exactly. She will be so screwed financially AND she has to keep up the house. And her next job isn't until October at the moment.


----------



## morituri

*WARNING*

Shamwow,

Do not divulge the bad news you read in the text messages. You can say that you know but cannot say how. She can sue you and win.


----------



## MarriedTex

I know you want more evidence, but how will you be able to play it straight while in her presence tonight? Might call for another night of drinking on the town. Appears to be the only thing you folks have left in common.


----------



## thecw

The only question that remains is how can Sham leave this situation in a permanent manner with the least detriment to himself. 

I still think you need a better plan than getting a hotel and at the end of the month subletting something across town. I'd be thinking moving out of town and getting closer to family because you will need support from those who truly care about you. This is assuming you can leave town and aren't tied there by job/school/other obligations, etc.


----------



## Shaggy

Is there any possibility that all that money you think she has been spending is really getting stashed somewhere and selling her car as well is setting things up to leave?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall

Sham,

Sorry buddy! Keep your chin up at least to her face. Hope for the best for ya man.


----------



## Shamwow

I have work to get done by the end of day tomorrow anyway, so I think keeping this under wraps for a day or two is sounding beter every second. That way I can get my gear out...should drop her off for a 2-hr massage on Saturday (for her birthday). Then not pick her up when it's done, and I can be gone.

Figure the cost of the massage would be worth the impact.

Sure I'll come up with 10,000 ways to do this, now that I have so much more to work with.

Panty test may not come back for 5 days, but at least it's a real lab that will yield hard, printed results.

VAR may give me more.

I'm gonna chill, look for something hardcore solid in the texts, and plan my exit. But quickly. Can't let her do it first. Guessing she's thinking weeks or months on her end...though since I mentioned D the other day maybe she'll speed up her plans for her exit.

All the while she's trying to plan a trip to Cozumel with me for September. Fat chance.


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> *WARNING*
> 
> Shamwow,
> 
> Do not divulge the bad news you read in the text messages. You can say that you know but cannot say how. She can sue you and win.


Really? Even if I paid for hard drive I found them on? I'll call my lawyer in the am.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I am trying to think of a way to get her to sync her phone. That way, you would probably find your evidence right away. I know how tough it will be for you to be around her now that you know she lied.

Maybe make up a story about how the latest OS on the Iphone is much better or fixes a security problem with texts getting redirected or something like that. Tell her that there was a problem with deleted texts not actually getting deleted. That would make her want to upgrade her phone right away, which would mean she would have to sync it.

I sure hope you haven't used any of your cheques to pay off her debts.


----------



## morituri

*WARNING II*

Shamwow,

*Do not divulge the bad news you read in the text messages.* You can say that you know but cannot say how. *She can sue you and win.*


----------



## Thehusband2

morituri said:


> *WARNING*
> 
> Shamwow,
> 
> Do not divulge the bad news you read in the text messages. You can say that you know but cannot say how. She can sue you and win.


why????? it was on a computer both use, no??

also sue for what...this is not court of law


----------



## thecw

Sham as hard as it is...

1. For the short term, take care of your work first and foremost right now. I have no doubt your work has taken a dive recently, and you don't want bosses to start noticing.

2. You have what you need to end this marriage. Do it in a way that is best for you (i.e. causes you the least detriment), not that delivers the most shock value to her.

3. Plan this well. No going back for little things on multiple visits. You move out one time in one fell swoop. You don't live out of hotels either. You need a permanent solution to a devastating turn in your life.

4. When you leave I would not say one word to your wife. You tried to confront already and she threw you off your script. There is nothing more to say. Many women remember the guy that walked away and said nothing way more than the guy who made his last stand. Until the day she dies she will always wonder about you, and how you just walked from her life.

5. Not saying anything or responding further to her gives you a great sense of pride and resolve. I was trampled by a former girlfriend for 5 years in a relationship that ended miserably with me being dumped and groveling to get back together once. 9 months later she called me. I recognized her number on caller ID and didn't answer. She left a voice mail saying hi asking me to call her back. 6 years later she is still waiting for that call. And many times when it crosses my mind I sit back and grin at that thought.


----------



## Almostrecovered

You may consider asking for time off work, you'd be surprised how understanding bosses will be (just say that you have some serious personal problems)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

thecw said:


> Sham as hard as it is...
> 
> 1. For the short term, take care of your work first and foremost right now. I have no doubt your work has taken a dive recently, and you don't want bosses to start noticing.
> 
> 2. You have what you need to end this marriage. Do it in a way that is best for you (i.e. causes you the least detriment), not that delivers the most shock value to her.
> 
> 3. Plan this well. No going back for little things on multiple visits. You move out one time in one fell swoop. You don't live out of hotels either. You need a permanent solution to a devastating turn in your life.
> 
> 4. When you leave I would not say one word to your wife. You tried to confront already and she threw you off your script. There is nothing more to say. Many women remember the guy that walked away and said nothing way more than the guy who made his last stand. Until the day she dies she will always wonder about you, and how you just walked from her life.
> 
> 5. Not saying anything or responding further to her gives you a great sense of pride and resolve. I was trampled by a former girlfriend for 5 years in a relationship that ended miserably with me being dumped and groveling to get back together once. 9 months later she called me. I recognized her number on caller ID and didn't answer. She left a voice mail saying hi asking me to call her back. 6 years later she is still waiting for that call. And many times when it crosses my mind I sit back and grin at that thought.


Yes.

Do this Shamwow, you don`t need anymore evidence do you?
Just get a rental, leave the papers and ring on the table, move ALL your **** out when she isn`t home and go dark man.

Please?


----------



## Shamwow

recovered text from OM: "I'll do whatever you want in Vegas. You'll have sex again. You're too sexy not to."

Another time: Him - "Glad you're having fun" (referring to a camping trip she and I took with another couple in early July)

Her - "Still guilt ridden, but yes, having a good time." "Getting there, and I don't deserve fun".


----------



## crossbar

Okay dude, you really need to breath!!!!! I suggest not doing anything yet. Remember what I wrote in my first post. If a cheaters lips are moving, they're usually lying. This shouldn't come as a shock to you if you take advice to heart.

She can easily talk her way out of inappropriate texts, or sexting. "nothing ever happened. It didn't mean anything. We were joking around!" and more tears. But if you have the texts, a recording of her talking about her trip to someone or even the OM. And then possibly a positive result on the panties that you submitted from her trip with him to Vegas that proves it isn't your DNA. She can not talk her way out of that one. Except that she'll probably tell you that it only happened one time and that she felt guilty about it and it was terrible. Again, when cheaters lips are moving, they're lying. 

You need to breath, hold it together and give an Oscar worthy performance of a husband that's being hurt, but trying to work through his problems.


----------



## morituri

*WARNING III*

*READ THIS NOW!*

*Husband in Hot Water: Man Faces Five Years in Prison for Snooping Through Wife's E-Mails*


----------



## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> recovered text from OM: "I'll do whatever you want in Vegas. You'll have sex again. You're too sexy not to."


 The wording sounds off on this.....saying - "you'll have sex again" not "we'll have sex again." Could it be taken out of context ??


----------



## Shaggy

Sham

Remember you don't need to prove to her that she cheated. She already knows. So don't reveal your sources and don't defend your conclusions. 

When you do tell her you know. It is up to her to defend herself and prove nothing happened. This is where you got suckered by her the first time. She got you to defend what you knew to be true. 

So this time just say you've found out that she went PA and so you are done with her. If she says let me sign hand her a pen 

Do not engage in a court case where you need to show your proof. You don't. 

I still say she hasn't spent all that money. She's stashing it away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Ticonderoga said:


> The wording sounds off on this.....saying - "you'll have sex again" not "we'll have sex again." Could it be taken out of context ??


It`s probably in reply to her *****ing about the lack of sex or decent sex at home.
Typical cheater tale that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Cypress

Morturi,

I read the article. The Michigan BH was charged with unauthorized access to wife's email. This is the first time this has been brought to a court in Michigan. Unless Sham is in Michigan, he has nothing to worry about.

Cypress


----------



## Almostrecovered

Ticonderoga said:


> Originally Posted by Shamwow View Post
> recovered text from OM: "I'll do whatever you want in Vegas. You'll have sex again. You're too sexy not to."
> 
> The wording sounds off on this.....saying - "you'll have sex again" not "we'll have sex again." Could it be taken out of context ??


I read this as-

she was having seconds thoughts and bemoaning that she will never have sex again due to her being such a bad person for cheating - he said he'll respect whatever she wishes to and then proceeds to tell her that she's too sexy to never have sex again to try to persuade to still have sex with him


----------



## Entropy3000

You need to backup what you have to another drive / thumb drive for safe keeping. 

I think you have a flood gate of information. You have evidence of a PA now. That said, I would suggest you get the closure you really want and use a tumb drive to capture her entire directory.

No doubt there are pictures as well. I onlt say this because you have the opportunity to gathe rinformation. No point in tipping your hand yet. Keep gathering.

You will learn more about Vegas and you will learn more about wht you are up against. Knowledge is power.


----------



## Thehusband2

honestly call this joke up and reem him out, I mean verbally annhilate him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tough guy, makes me want to get aggressive with his type!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

doesn't have the balls to be straight up, but insteads sneakes around...........pathetic joke

there it is..............the joke is on them


----------



## Voiceofreason

Cypress said:


> Morturi,
> 
> I read the article. The Michigan BH was charged with unauthorized access to wife's email. This is the first time this has been brought to a court in Michigan. Unless Sham is in Michigan, he has nothing to worry about.
> 
> Cypress


Interesting that I could not fine any follow up whether there was a conviction in that case...there was certainly a large public and political backlash against the prosecutors for bringing the action


----------



## morituri

Cypress said:


> Morturi,
> 
> I read the article. The Michigan BH was charged with unauthorized access to wife's email. This is the first time this has been brought to a court in Michigan. Unless Sham is in Michigan, he has nothing to worry about.
> 
> Cypress


Perhaps but it would still be a very wise move on his part to consult his attorney FIRST regarding this issue.


----------



## Gabriel

The text about sex again, to me, meant, she was feeling unwanted, complained to this guy, who was more than willing to feed her lines. That line does not tell me they had sex. But it does tell me this guy was/is waiting to pounce.

The second line about guilt is harder to figure out. Guilty for what? Having sex outside the marriage? Talking with this OM about it? Can't tell. Need more.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, what other texts do you have? We can try to help you interpret, especially since we've probably found similar ones and later found out the real meaning in our own lives.


----------



## Shamwow

"Ill let ya work in Vegas - between f***ing me"

Ouch.


----------



## Shamwow

Honestly seeing a lot of stuff that's just sad, like she's just tired of me and has been talking to friends of ours about leaving since she got back from 10-wk trip. All that time not telling me one thing that was bothering her, even though I was always asking her to tell me why she's down.

And then it goes straight to the rough stuff.


----------



## Shamwow

And she's been sending pics of herself to him and vice versa. Thank god I can't see them, only an indication that a pic message was sent and then something like "and then the bra comes off, right?" "Wow, must be cold there".

Sigh. This sucks. I should've just left on Tuesday.


----------



## Mike11

Well this is hard evidence IMHO

It is up to you at this point of time 

Personally I think this is clear cut


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> And she's been sending pics of herself to him and vice versa. Thank god I can't see them, only an indication that a pic message was sent and then something like "and then the bra comes off, right?" "Wow, must be cold there".
> 
> Sigh. This sucks. I should've just left on Tuesday.


Sham I'm so sorry!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ticonderoga

Shamwow said:


> "Ill let ya work in Vegas - between f***ing me" Ouch.


 That is the smoking gun....ouch. Sorry for your pain.....better to know it now.

Leaving her at the massage place on her birthday is a good one. Females tend to really get into B-days.....it would leave a mark and give you more time to collect info.


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> "Ill let ya work in Vegas - between f***ing me"
> 
> Ouch.



Yeah, this is pretty bad. At this point I would go scorched earth. What did she say in response to that?

One poster had an idea of just leaving and not even saying why - that actually sounds like an awesome idea. Don't even give her the satisfaction of a live argument. You could send a curt note later, saying, "the panties came back positive for semen. As did your texts. You no longer deserve my attention. See you in court."


----------



## thecw

Sham this woman has broken you. I've been broken, more than once. The day you walk away, please do not give any indication why you left. Go dark, for the rest of your life. You will take pride in this, trust me....edit to add that it will also drive her insane. Even if she doesn't want to be with you anymore, it will still never leave her.


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> "Ill let ya work in Vegas - between f***ing me"
> 
> Ouch.


Who said that Sham, her or the OM?


----------



## Shaggy

Sham

Time to pay a PI to find other mans wife and do some sharing. 

Do it before you confront your wife so the OM doesn't have a chance to cover himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

I feel for you Sham. You've got to get out. If you want any chance at R then you can offer her one last opportunity, if she's interested at all in preserving her marriage, to come totally clean by the end of the Saturday. But until then you have to get out in my opinion. Tell her you know, and being lied to is no way to have a marriage. Tell her you have your faults, but no spouse is deserving of being cheated on, and no spouse is deserving of being lied to. Leave the D papers on the table, saying you can only conclude that's what she wants based on her actions and lies. Then leave again telling her if she wants any chance at all (no guarantees) of saving her marriage she has until the end of the day Saturday to come completely clean. If not then the M is effectively over. My bet is that this is what she wants but he hasn't had the balls to do it (or the financial security).

It's up to you if you share any evidence with her b4 leaving, but all you have to say is "____, I know. I mean, I don't think or conclude, I KNOW. Here's the D papers...etc."

Good luck


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> And she's been sending pics of herself to him and vice versa. Thank god I can't see them, only an indication that a pic message was sent and then something like "and then the bra comes off, right?" "Wow, must be cold there".
> 
> Sigh. This sucks. I should've just left on Tuesday.


Is it time to call a timeout and just leave when you get your car?

Please don't punish yourself in such big doses!


----------



## Gabriel

Halien has a point about the punishment, but if it were me, I'd be devouring everything. How can you not? Still curious to see what her response was to "I'll let you work in vegas - between f*cking me". 

She could still talk her way out of that, if she responded with "oh, stop. Don't tempt me."

Now if she said, "Can't wait" then well.

In the other text when she described the guilt, my guess is that she did the deed, instantly felt horrible about it. This is why she said she didn't deserve any fun. Which she doesn't. And the OM is trying to keep her in the game with him.


----------



## ManDup

Remember at this point you know, and she knows, but she's trying to find out HOW MUCH you know. She thinks she's smart and has covered her tracks. If you talk to her at all, you have to say, "Look, I know everything. So far you haven't even come clean with the things I know about. Start talking, until I hear everything I already know." Etc. Personally I'd be gone, but I did waffle a bit at the end between working hard to get her back and kicking her to the curb. It's natural, but it's weak. She didn't waver once, ever, at all, until the divorce papers were served. By then, for me it was too late.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, this is pretty bad. At this point I would go scorched earth. What did she say in response to that?."


that was her response to HIM. He had beensaying how he'd have work to do while they were in Vegas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

some other suggestions aside from what to say/do


1) see a doctor- you are likely going to hit depression and have some serious anxiety, a little medication would help

2) eat right and try to sleep your normal schedule and don't drink booze/beer etc

3) take some time off of work you wont be able to work effectively anyways

4) rely on trustworthy friends and family, sure we all can help online but you need some real life people for support

5) take some time for yourself- do something that you enjoy and take a break from all of this


----------



## librarydragon

Shamwow said:


> And she's been sending pics of herself to him and vice versa. Thank god I can't see them, only an indication that a pic message was sent and then something like "and then the bra comes off, right?" "Wow, must be cold there".
> 
> Sigh. This sucks. I should've just left on Tuesday.


Sham, it does suck. I'm sorry you're going through hell right now.

Most of us knew this was coming without needing to see this evidence, but we're all a little jaded for one reason or another. You _should_ have left on Thursday, but you know what, you wanted to believe the best about your wife. You wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. And that, my friend, is NOT a bad quality in a person. I hope you don't lose it altogether, though I do hope you find a little more alpha moving forward with your life 

There are many stories out there of people who have recovered from worse. There are as many of people who found personal, but not marital recovery, and ended up better, stronger people because of it.

PS...if it makes you feel any better, I don't want to kick your ass today


----------



## Shaggy

Sham

Just take the car when she returns and leave for tonight. Don't say a thing. Let her stew on what you know 

Retrieve the var from home this weekend. Odds are she calls the OM to talk. 

But get yourself out of there before you lose it around her tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Shaggy said:


> Sham
> 
> Just take the car when she returns and leave for tonight. Don't say a thing. Let her stew on what you know
> 
> Retrieve the var from home this weekend. Odds are she calls the OM to talk.
> 
> But get yourself out of there before you lose it around her tonight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Agree




Shamwow said:


> that was her response to HIM. He had beensaying how he'd have work to do while they were in Vegas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jesus. That's even worse. Yep. Take the car and go. Say nothing to her that engages you or her in anything that could potentially derail your plans.


----------



## aug

Shamwow,

My suggestions:

1. Wait and try to get more. The more you have, the easier for you to get closure. 

2. Back up what you have and hide it in unexpected place(s).

3. Dont disclose your source of info till you are damm sure from your lawyer that you will not be in legal trouble. And if your lawyer waffles a bit, assume it shouldn't be disclosed.

4. When you speak to her, step back in your mind and marvel at how she performs.

Time and Silence are your friends.

hth


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

You don't need more evidence. Just get out of there as fast as you can. Don't talk to her, don't look back.

It's time to take care of yourself. Go to a friends place, even if it is a long drive. Don't go to a hotel. You need more support than a forum on the Internet can give. Being alone tonight is not a good idea. 

And don't read any more of the texts for now. You know all you need to know.

Cypress


----------



## tacoma

Just get out of there Sham.

You can talk to her later if you feel you need to at the time but just get out ASAP and go dark for awhile.


----------



## adv

I definitely agree that you should get out of there as soon as you're able and without talking to her. Your anger level is probably at a point you have never felt before and you don't want to loose control around your wife even for a second because, at this point, you really don't know what may happen. I'm not saying you're a crazy man or anything; but these situations bring out the worse in all of us.

P.S. I've been in nearly the same situation and my self-respect would not allow me to reconcile even though I tried for a month or two. 

Edit: I couldn't reconcile because the content the text messages of too graphic and far too hurtful.


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## Stonewall

Sham,

Don't talk to her anymore. If you do I promise you she will get vicious with you and only cause you more pain buddy. Thats her only defense now. Just haul a$$ and let your lawyer do the talking from here on.


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## thecw

Stonewall said:


> Sham,
> 
> Don't talk to her anymore. If you do I promise you she will get vicious with you and only cause you more pain buddy. Thats her only defense now. Just haul a$$ and let your lawyer do the talking from here on.


Agree. You corner her redhanded and she will unleash on you like demonically possessed. She will hurl verbal jabs that will cut you to the bone, she may even get physical with you. Nothing productive will come from speaking to your wife any further, today, tomorrow, ever.


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## morituri

By leaving for two or more days, you'll get a chance to calm down a bit and with a cooler head be able formulate an effective subsequent encounter with her.

Plus like someone said, by her not knowing where you are, it will truly shake her confidence to the core.


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## piqued

I think Morituri is right, as well as the others. Just leave for a couple days. To engage her now will only result in her becoming even more hurtful; once she knows she's caught she'll let loose with a barrage of real and imagined slights/defects in you that "caused" her to go outside the marriage. Save yourself the grief and go clear you head for a couple days.

What she does and says now is unimportant. Just get out of there so you can clear your head.

BTW, it sounds like you enjoy a beer or two. My advice, don't! This is not a time for alcohol.


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## adv

I totally agree (from my own experience) with Stonewall, thecw, and morituri. Get out of the house to somewhere unknown before she gets back. You don't want and probably can't handle that confrontation with her with a cool head at this time.

This will give her time to wonder "what does he know and how"? But more importantly, it will give you time to realize what you know, cool down, and start planning for your future.


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## girlfromipanema

I had to register to offer my support, as I've been following along and hoping for the best for you.

I'm so very sorry, Shamwow. You seem like such a great guy. I hate that you're going through something so ugly and unnecessary.

I'd suggest doing whatever you can to keep your cool. Make up an excuse and get out of there for a couple days. Maintain your cool at all costs for now. I don't want her to manipulate you anymore. 

I'm sure Mrs. Shamwow has redeemable qualities - or you wouldn't love her as you do - but I'd really like to execute a carefully crafted mindf*ck on her right now. 

Again, so sorry. Hang in there and know you're going to make it out of this just fine. Lots of people all over the world are pulling for you.


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## the guy

You now have the slap in the face I had mentioned earlier, I suggest you leave the evidence on the night stand and leave, it worked well for me.

Having to approach her later on.

The thing was my WW had a chance to stew on it and come up with the fact that there was no more hiding or managing the cheating and it was time to come clean.

I suspect you will get managed again and its not worth the pain so leave, you already know were she stands.

I'll never forget my WW swearing on her childrens lives that there was no one else. its an terrible feeling, but now I understand the lies.

You now can take the next step in moving on. do not play her game and finish this with the panty evidence.


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## FieryHairedLady

So sorry to see all this Sham...


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> that was her response to HIM. He had beensaying how he'd have work to do while they were in Vegas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, then there it is. I thought this was him talking. Since it was her that makes it 100 times worse.

This is worse than I thought it was quite frankly. 

If you do not have this backed up just leave with the drive until you can back it up.

Gee Whiz, this is not even from her laptop after the Vegas trip.


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## Shamwow

She came back and I said Hey. Then she laid down on the couch and wa looking all tired, so I said I'm going out for a while, looks like you're tired anyway. Be back later, okay? She seemed a little suspicious, but whatever. Am now at a restaurant reading texts, and am meeting a buddy in an hour to hang and talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## librarydragon

The company will be good for you.


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## the guy

At this point there realy isn't much you can do with regard to interogate her to see if she comes clean, or playing the game to see who knows what. 

In my case I just had the calming emotion that I know that you know that I know so let just get to the point.... I'm done, its your job to fix this with either leaving the marriage or work on healing the marriage.

See this was my case, I understand you have your deal breaker but again my case was different.

The point is still the same, being done with the evidence gathering and showing her you know, the confrontation is complete, time for the next step.

Granted I have heard of WS continue to deny when cuaght in bed with the affair partner, it sound like your wife is the type, but I'm just assuming by what you have said and her response towards you.

Any way you have enough ammo on the best way to proseed so stay strong, be confident, and don't beg for your marriage.


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## Shamwow

"you and my home thing are night and day. Not related in any way".

"will you hold my glasses while my face is in your lap?"

"ever been s***ed off in a theater?"

Also plenty of talk about me, both referring to me as Stew, presuming the adult Stewie from Family Guy. She really wants out. Feel like it's a race at this point. Apparently everyone in my life has been aware that she wants to leave, for at least a month, 2 months with some people. Ouch. I need to walk hard. Can't handle letting her pull the trigger. But s**t, I laid it out for her on Tues, and she denied everything and called my bluff, then SHE backed down. So wtf? Does feel like avrace to the finish though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## adv

Stay strong, for yourself. I know it's hard, I've been there and was so hard. I'll admit I did not have half the resolve you do and it took forever before I said enough is enough.
Don't be me.


----------



## Shamwow

Also talk of her wanting to meet him in his hometown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Clearly they've been having Skype sex for at least a month now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

And she calls him babe (same as me)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> And she calls him babe (same as me)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is your friend there yet Sham?

Put the texts down for awhile and just wait for him.


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## Shamwow

After pic sent to him - he replies "that's a lot of underwear!!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

OM's wife needs to know, please tell her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

As hard as is it you trying to figure her out is pointless worry about you.
Your letting this women define you, and she has been doing a good job so far so stop and make the changes ...as hard as they are but make them. Once you find your self again she will not recongnize you and she will not beable to pretict the new you.

Playing games may be fun fot you but it may be something she is expecting. Try something that is un like you and do it, she will not see it coming.


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## Shamwow

They're actually quite a cute couple. They talk like we used to when we first met. This girl is way gone. Can't fathom going home tonight and pretending all is well, but I have a deadline tomorrow and I need my gear to make it happen. So I have to go home tonight. But how long an I gold out? She's always told me I don't hide my emotions well. Guessing I can't keep it under wraps for long. Might have to leave tomorrow at end of workday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Being called babe is typical, my WW did, it keeps it less confussing,
there is a script to all of this


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## Cypress

Sham,

Has she gotten home yet? 

Cypress


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## Whip Morgan

Ouch, Sham. The friends that have known - that hurts. 

I hope you follow the advice here about alerting OMs wife. You have more than enough evidence to give her. 

Once you deal with your wife, I'd avoid these so called "friends". Go dark, completely. If they happen to ask whats up, inform them that you are aware of their knowledge of marital problems (without informing them how you know - I'd follow morituri's advice on that one). You may find this helpful in personal healing, avoiding the "friends". 

I strongly urge you to inform OMs wife, but dont wait too long after you blow up your wife's fantasy land - too much time may allow her to warn OM, who could warn his wife, concoct some bs story about how you're crazy. Timing is important here.


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## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> "you and my home thing are night and day. Not related in any way".
> 
> "will you hold my glasses while my face is in your lap?"
> 
> "ever been s***ed off in a theater?"
> 
> Also plenty of talk about me, both referring to me as Stew, presuming the adult Stewie from Family Guy. She really wants out. Feel like it's a race at this point. Apparently everyone in my life has been aware that she wants to leave, for at least a month, 2 months with some people. Ouch. I need to walk hard. Can't handle letting her pull the trigger. But s**t, I laid it out for her on Tues, and she denied everything and called my bluff, then SHE backed down. So wtf? Does feel like avrace to the finish though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She backed down because she isn't in a position to walk away. Look, she's thousands in debt for her little sex vacation, she doesn't have a car, no job until October and owns a house she can't make payments on because...thousands in debt! You hold all the cards and she has EVERYTHING to lose if you walk before she can get her finances in order.


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## the guy

I mean no direspect but I'm glad the denial phase is passing, no matter how hard it was for me and it is now hard for you. The confrontation phase is were the rubber mets the road and this is when you will be defined in your eyes and in your wifes eyes.


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## the guy

cross bar I agree with you she will be able to drop him, but the finacial hardship keeps the surade going.


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## aug

I agree with crossbar too. She may not be in the financial position to handle it on her own -- and that may explain the tears.

I supposed your joint buddy who introduced you in the first place knew of her discontent(?).


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## Joanie

Sham...dear Sham....BE DONE ONCE AND FOR ALL! I beg you! This woman has no real concern for you or your marriage. It will be hard but what it the alternative? Being with someone who has betrayed your trust is awful and not an easy way to live. Make tonight the first night of your new life. It will get better....really it will!


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## aug

Shamwow said:


> They're actually quite a cute couple. They talk like we used to when we first met. This girl is way gone. Can't fathom going home tonight and pretending all is well, but I have a deadline tomorrow and I need my gear to make it happen. So I have to go home tonight. But how long an I gold out? She's always told me I don't hide my emotions well. Guessing I can't keep it under wraps for long. Might have to leave tomorrow at end of workday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You can hold on till tomorrow. Just go to work on your deadline.

Keep quiet. Dont say anything. So what if your emotions shows? She would not know your real reason.


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## SadSamIAm

This is a huge event Sham. You will look back on how you handle it for the rest of your life. Do yourself proud!!! Take away her power and show her the man you are.

Unless you have a huge penalty for the deadline on your work, I would leave the work. Call your boss and explain that you are having difficulties with your marriage that you have to attend to. Most any employer will understand.

I don't think you can handle being around her, you will either cave and beg or blow up and cause a scene (neither of which would be good). You should stay away for the weekend. Let it sink in that your marriage is over and this woman is not someone that you want to spend the rest of your life with. You deserve so much better. Let her realize that you are moving on.


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## crossbar

I have a question. You said that you placed a VAR in the car and she was gone for hours. Have you had time to review any of it yet?


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## Chaparral

SW

If I were you my number one goal in life would be to inform the OM's wife. She has a right to know everything you know. He's playing her for the fool just like he's doing you. Then I would make sure I let him know exactly how his wife found out about him. The worst thing is the fool he's made of your wife. He's played her like a cheap fiddle. He's riding as high now as he ever has. 
Time to throw him under the dirty bus with the rest of the trash. Let him feel the cost of messing with you. Something he won't forget the rest of his life.
Hope you can get over this as soon as possible. Just unbelievably sad.
Good luck and God bless.


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## Shaggy

Definitrly time to rain on OMs life. 

As for your wife, I suggest you remember what she had said and done when she is begging for you to be fair and help her out with done money in the next month or two. Practice now telling her what kind of cold day in h3ck it'll be before you give her a dime to keep her afloat or to finance her. 

No one spends shat she did on hair. She has got a war chest set aside for ditching you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrQuatto

Sham, 

Really man, you have done everything you could, gave her every opportunity to disclose everything or ANYTHING and have been patient, calm and quite lucid throughout all this. 

Having been through this myself, I know how hard it is to be that hard nosed when making that initial confrontation. You look at the person you made a life vow to and can't imagine being that cold and hard to her so then, against your better judgment, you gave her a last chance to even just start a dialog, something... anything. 

You now have to make that hard choice and you NEED plan it out. From now on out, however long it takes for you to be ready is exactly how long you should give it. Don't be pressured to act rashly, too fast or too out of character for you. Follow your gut, makes SURE all YOUR ducks are in a row and you are ready to leave on YOUR terms. She is no longer deserving of much in the way of consideration. 

As far as serving her the D papers, look into having it done by the sheriff, certified mail or other option after you leave. Take yourself out of the confrontation now, there is no point in going through it really. She not only made her bed, but when faced with the truth, she also made her choice. 

Just remember, YOU did nothing wrong! You have earned the right to walk away from this proudly with your chin up and head held high as you took the high road throughout this. Please remember that and best of luck my man. We are behind you!

Q~


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## bryanp

Contact the om's wife now!!!


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## Chaparral

Really hate to say this but you and OM's wife need to have STD test soon. I'm sure this isn't the first time the OM has pulled this off.


----------



## seeking sanity

Shamwow said:


> "you and my home thing are night and day. Not related in any way".
> 
> Also plenty of talk about me, both referring to me as Stew, presuming the adult Stewie from Family Guy.


I've found it helped me if I understood the mindset mid-affair, so for what it's worth:

Most people need to be in congruence with their self image. She probably doesn't think of herself as a "cheater" so in order to rationalize she needed to demonize you. It's the fog. If you are a "stewie" then it somehow makes what she's doing okay.

Doesn't make it right, but it's part of the pattern.


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## Shamwow

Have hired a PI to get OM's wife cell, and hopefully email. He couldn't guarantee it, but hopes to have it by end of day tomorrow. How does one word this kind of thing to the OM wife? Don't want to hurt her, but she needs to know (and I want to hurt HIM). If she (or someone) had warned me of this a few months ago I'd have been in the drivers seat this whole time. From the texts it seems they are already in different bedrooms...so she may just say "yeah, he's been doing this for years...a**hole." either way, he deserves a massive pile of s*** in his life right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> How does one word this kind of thing to the OM wife? Don't want to hurt her, but she needs to know (and I want to hurt HIM).


Does he have a wife?
I thought it was unclear what his marital status was earlier, might`ve missed something.

Just tell her her H and your wife have been having an affair, give her whatever evidence and info she asks for or you feel like giving.

A couple copies of those text messages should work wonders and maybe a rundown of her husbands itinerary on his "Business Trip" to Vegas.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Also plenty of talk about me, both referring to me as Stew, presuming the adult Stewie from Family Guy. _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know, the next time she calls you by name, or nickname, she'd probably blow a fuse if you told her just to call you Stew


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## SadSamIAm

And offer to hold her glasses while her face is in your lap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Halien said:


> You know, the next time she calls you by name, or nickname, she'd probably blow a fuse if you told her just to call you Stew


Ding ding ding ding ding ding

Best post of thread award

Can't speak for anyone else but I needed that. ROTFLMAO


----------



## Chaparral

Halien said:


> You know, the next time she calls you by name, or nickname, she'd probably blow a fuse if you told her just to call you Stew


It will give her the whole low down in a nutshell.

You're my hero!


----------



## Gabriel

I cannot wait until Sham can get his justice and this woman gets hers.


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## Chaparral

SadSamIAm said:


> And offer to hold her glasses while her face is in your lap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dittoes 

If we could only see her face. If it were me I would seriously think about recording it. Payback really can be a b!tcH.!!!


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

Here is an idea. Tell her you are off to get your STD array because it hurts when you urinate. Then ask if there is anything more she needs to say. When you leave she will be calling the om, who may have to tell his wife and who may accuse your wife of giving him an STD. This will throw some cold water on this A, and if you want to R, it may help to get the om to chill. Most of the OM just want to get laid anyway, and when it gets dicey, all the chatting about how you don't treat your wife right, and how he would treat her right, and what a great "connection" they have, bla, bla, bla goes out the door and he moves on to the next victim. 

You might want to look at some other threads for some less heated advice than you are getting here, but this recipe (none of it is original) is what worked for me. Some of it may work for you: Confront (I had chat logs as good as yours, and honestly, the revisionist history about our marriage is worse than the graphic chat) and don't accept denials. Once she asks your source, you know she knows you know. Give her the there is only room for 2 people in a marriage speech. You would not have done what she did to you. She should have left first. Look her straight in the eyes. Keep your voice up. No wavering, no crying, no interrupting. If she continues to deny, you don't have to argue about it, just let her know she must really disrespect you more than you thought but you will not be a doormat. "Do you think I am a doormat? Don't you think anyone can analyze these facts? It "looks really bad" because it is and I know the truth. Your lying to me only makes it worse." (Well, hopefully she doesn't respond to this in the wrong way, but if she does, then you have a problem anyway). Then tell her she's not even a good liar (remember Don Henley). If she must continue with the charade, just stay on message. Tell her its no contact time, transparency, etc. essentially it is you and no other men. The details can follow later on the NC if she wants R. She will say this is an ultimatum, but this is incorrect: she set this up and it is just the most basic condition any self-respecting spouse would live under, and you are a self-respecting spouse. Now that you know what you know, this can't go on and you won't tolerate it. Give her a time when you will ask for her response as to how she will go forward in the marriage. I know now, after co-opting advice from other threads and using it, that this set-up is genius, and is designed to let her know that you have respect for yourself, your are not afraid of losing her, but you will put up a fight for your wife. Even though she didn't cause this situation specifically to see if you would rise to the challenge, you must let her know you have respect for yourself and that you are not going to let some other caveman come and take your wife from you. You must be firm. I worried I would be too firm and I would drive her away, but if you are not very firm, there is no chance she will come back (IF you want that option). The above worked for me, so far, (one communication violation) to foil a facebook, skype, second life virtual sex ea that went PA. I had young kids in the equation. Your mileage may vary. [I recognize that you may already have determined what is a deal breaker here and that many on the board, possibly correctly, may view the opportunity for "confrontation" as having already passed.].

If this is not an exit strategy on your wife's part, then she is looking for you to make a stand. Even if YOU do decide to D, my guess is that you will feel better about this for yourself. By the way, nice work on the weight program. Is there any chance she thinks you are preparing to exit? Is there really a chance that this long-distance relationship can move forward? Does she want kids? Would you still want children with her? Finally, if you do file, you will need a lawyer, but without kids, you really should think about a mediation and save your money to have fun with someone else. Since the om is not local and you don't have kids, I kind of agree with the leaving for a day or two before you come back for your answer. I wish you luck and hope you get the result that you want or at least feel that you did everything in your power to shape the outcome.


----------



## the guy

As for as the OM wife goes there is no for sure thing, the OM could be lying his butt off and there is no telling. Could be that he is minumizing to make your W feel better about being with a married man.
I have read that its not about hurting him so don't appraoch it that way. Approach as many have said here, that "if it was you you would want to know and you have proof if she wants it.
Keep it simple, the fact that you are the man that is married to the women your H is sleeping with".

Offer proof and contact info for you and leave it at that....for the OMW to absorb and contact you with the details if she so chooses.

From there it is all her call in how she wants to deal with the info.

As long as OMW knows that the evidence is available to her if she wants it.

Remember denial is a hard force and she will want to get her H imput, but in the end you will have light her curiosity and it will be up to her, forceing it on her would be mean, but making it available for her to choose would be noble.

Remember you have been were she is at now and denial will play a big part and it may take her some time to recontact you for more info, don't push OMW as you know it is something that needs to be absorbed first then dealt with.

You can't make OMW except what you have to offer, als you can do is offer it.


----------



## washburn

Shamwow said:


> Have hired a PI to get OM's wife cell, and hopefully email. He couldn't guarantee it, but hopes to have it by end of day tomorrow. How does one word this kind of thing to the OM wife? Don't want to hurt her, but she needs to know (and I want to hurt HIM). If she (or someone) had warned me of this a few months ago I'd have been in the drivers seat this whole time. From the texts it seems they are already in different bedrooms...so she may just say "yeah, he's been doing this for years...a**hole." either way, he deserves a massive pile of s*** in his life right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey registered just to post on this thread. Saw the thread referenced in another forum and now they are all talking about you and not what the original thread was about!!

What Happened to Vanhandle's thread? - Page 8 - LoveShack.org Community Forums

Wife is about to make it physical. - LoveShack.org Community Forums

Intriguing stuff, pulling for you. I think its time for you to walk. It sounds like you got plenty of stuff put away for yourself to move. You've been preparing. I dont know if I was you I could stay in that house any longer. You've got the proof you need. Get the car back. Pack up the last of your stuff in it and leave tomorrow night. In regards to the other dudes wife. You have to call her. Dont send her mail. Dont send a text message. You have to make sure you reach her by phone. Any other way and the husband could intercept it somehow. In terms of what to tell her. Just spill it out. If need be she can check their own phone records to see the amount of times they have contacted. 

And going back to leaving tomorrow put it all out there. Some say just walk out and dont say squat but if you want to make her feel bad make a grand exit. Just reference what you know, 'Stew', texts, etc, DONT RECONCILE. That time has past. She might try to talk you out of leaving. Dont do it, dont give in. If you feel like you might do it or get emotional, just walk my friend. Walk out and get in your car and leave! Also since you have a recording device (that voice activated one in the car) keep that around when you confront. You never know what she might say or it might cover your ass later on. You never know. 

Some might tell you to hold on for a little longer and you might feel yourself some hesitance. I can see it. I think this might be the third time you said you would leave. Each time you didnt. Just do it man. You can post on here tomorrow night...youll get good reponse, dont worry, now's the time to do what you need to do. Godspeed.


----------



## Saffron

Shamwow said:


> Have hired a PI to get OM's wife cell, and hopefully email. He couldn't guarantee it, but hopes to have it by end of day tomorrow. How does one word this kind of thing to the OM wife? Don't want to hurt her, but she needs to know (and I want to hurt HIM). If she (or someone) had warned me of this a few months ago I'd have been in the drivers seat this whole time. From the texts it seems they are already in different bedrooms...so she may just say "yeah, he's been doing this for years...a**hole." either way, he deserves a massive pile of s*** in his life right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I found out from the OWH, so I can give you a few tips from my POV.

Stay as calm and relaxed as possible. The OMW is going to perceive you as a threat, so her defenses will be up. She may even defend her H at first (the separate bedroom thing could be a total lie), so be ready to offer evidence of some kind. The texts alone should be enough for her to question the truthfulness of her H. It's doubtful she'll want to give her email over the phone for you to fwd anything, so plan ahead how you can offer her any information..... fwd, fax, mail. Maybe she'll prefer to do her own investigating.

I believe the OM lives out of state, so telling his wife in person is not an option and something I don't recommend anyway. A phone call is best, hopefully she'll answer. If she does, identify yourself and your reason for calling right away. She's either going to think you're a crazy person or a marketing call, so she'll be trying to get rid of you immediately.

Many people will say don't leave a message, but if she doesn't answer after several attempts you may need too. I never answer for an unknown caller, so she might not either. If you do have to leave a message on her cell, I'd suggest being vague but revealing enough she'll want to call you back. Could be as simple as, "OMW, this is Shamwow. My wife _blank _works with your husband _blank_. I'm calling regarding a personal matter. If you could give me a call back I'd really appreciate it." The problem with this is she might ask her husband about you and your wife first, then he might give her some story about you being a total nut job. Leaving a message is a last ditch effort.

Most of all be patient with the OMW. She might be completely blindsided by this information, so it might take her a moment to grasp what you're saying could possibly be true. She won't want to believe it. Granted, there's always the chance she'll tell you to F off, because you're not telling her anything new. If that's the case, thank her for her time and be glad you tried to do the right thing.

Again, so sorry you're going through this SW. I know there's plenty of email/texts btw my H and OW that are sexual in nature, but since he's confessed the PA portion of the EA, I don't have to recover them and hurt myself further by reading. Reading their texts has made an already devastating experience that much more hurtful for you. Take care of yourself.


----------



## morituri

Shamwow, please consider the following regardless of whether you choose to divorce your wife or reconcile with her

What is forgiveness?

For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.

But to others, myself included, forgiveness means to accept - not condone - that what was done cannot be undone and to make peace with it, NOT for the benefit of the offender but for the benefit of the offended. This type of forgiveness does not remove the consequences that would befall the offender.

People who subscribe to the former definition of forgiveness are unable to achieve it because it is an emotionally daunting task. It is also dependent on the offender showing true remorse to the offended for his/her transgression(s) which may or may not be present or ever will be.

But those of us who subscribe to the latter definition, forgiveness is an acknowledgement that no matter what the outcome of the situation with the offender is, that in order for us to move on with our lives is to *make the decision that anger and bitterness are the toxic twins that will forever follow us and poison our lives IF we consciously allow them to. Here, forgiveness is a conscious choice for the benefit of the offended, not the offender.*

I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And yes, I did forgive her because I subscribe to the latter definition of forgiveness.


----------



## Idun

You poor man Shamwow  I have been following your thread this past week and feel heartbroken for you!

A virtual hug is the best I can do **HUGS**

I hope you at least get the satisfaction of pulling the trigger here.


:gun:


----------



## Tap1214

Shamwow, please meet with OMW and give her copies of all the TEXT. It's actual document / proof that she can't ignore and perhaps she may get upset with you, but in the end, she will appreciate you for doing it. Speaking for myself, if I was the OMW, I WOULD want to know!!


----------



## sam83

sham I know I've no right to say this but I really won't forgive u if u let her control it again this time choose the best plan for u and stick to it I love the idea of the B-day thing take her to massage then she came home to empty house and D-papers on the table with a note stew is leaving forever u wanted to know before where to sign plz sign at parts with x 

best wishes for u man


----------



## Almostrecovered

have the PI get her work address
I called the OM's wife and he had fed her lies that my wife is crazy and that she was using him to "wake me up by making me jealous and get the marriage back on track" (I mean really?) She was so defensive I never had time to present the proof fully. So I sent the proof via registered mail to her work.


----------



## Halien

morituri said:


> Shamwow, please consider the following regardless of whether you choose to divorce your wife or reconcile with her
> 
> What is forgiveness?
> 
> For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.
> 
> But to others, myself included, forgiveness means to accept - not condone - that what was done cannot be undone and to make peace with it, NOT for the benefit of the offender but for the benefit of the offended. This type of forgiveness does not remove the consequences that would befall the offender.
> 
> People who subscribe to the former definition of forgiveness are unable to achieve it because it is an emotionally daunting task. It is also dependent on the offender showing true remorse to the offended for his/her transgression(s) which may or may not be present or ever will be.
> 
> But those of us who subscribe to the latter definition, forgiveness is an acknowledgement that no matter what the outcome of the situation with the offender is, that in order for us to move on with our lives is to *make the decision that anger and bitterness are the toxic twins that will forever follow us and poison our lives IF we consciously allow them to. Here, forgiveness is a conscious choice for the benefit of the offended, not the offender.*
> 
> I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And yes, I did forgive her because I subscribe to the latter definition of forgiveness.


Great post. In the end, forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not the offending person.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Great post. In the end, forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not the offending person.


:iagree:

It is part of letting them go.


----------



## Shamwow

Still going through texts. She thinks I'm working. I'm not. I've called my client and dropped off today's gig for personal reasons. They totally understood.

Meeting with therapist in an hour. Have to find a way out without big confrotation. She's just sitting on the couch and has no plans all day.

Saw texts about meeting with our banker to go over accounts in case things get messy (from about a month ago). Well, hope she put something in those new accounts because like it or not things are about to get messy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

No interest in reconciling now. Hard to say, but I think I actually believe it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

what is the plan now that you have some time to think it over? Staying with the birthday plan?


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Still going through texts. She thinks I'm working. I'm not. I've called my client and dropped off today's gig for personal reasons. They totally understood.
> 
> Meeting with therapist in an hour. Have to find a way out without big confrotation. She's just sitting on the couch and has no plans all day.
> 
> Saw texts about meeting with our banker to go over accounts in case things get messy (from about a month ago). Well, hope she put something in those new accounts because like it or not things are about to get messy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, she was getting pretty low on funds, but I thought you put your recent payments in another account. Is she asking for money so far?


----------



## Shamwow

Crazy about the other forum story. No time to read the thread but I glanced. Thank god I don't have kids. Similarities are amazing though. We took salsa lessons a couple years go. And two weeks ago I told her I wanted to take her salsa dancing on my birthday. She complained the whole night at dinner (on my bday), we were like 5min from going dancing and she started to complain about a blister on her foot. I just stopped as said, "you know what, let's just go home." she said, "really? Thanks. I owe you a good birthday night redo soon." 

don't know why I'm telling you this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

That's up to you. But I know I wouldn't, if I were you. Good luck with the therapist. That was a good move, lining that up.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Crazy about the other forum story. No time to read the thread but I glanced. Thank god I don't have kids. Similarities are amazing though. We took salsa lessons a couple ears go. And two weeks ago I told her I wanted to take er salsa dancing on my birthday. She complained the whole night at dinner (on my bday), we were like 5min from going dancing and as started to complain about a blister on her foot. I just stopped as said, "you know what, let's just go home." she said, "really? Thanks. I owe you a good birthday night redo soon."
> 
> don't know why I'm telling you this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


please let it out, it'll help 

we've all been through similar thought processes and situations

my 2 year d-day anniversary is coming up in 3 weeks so I'll likely spill out my whole story- not only to share with others in the same sort of predicament but also to "let it all out". It feels good to share and get that stuff off your chest and it can be easier when it's done anonymously to people who also understand you


----------



## Gabriel

you are telling us this because it further justifies your reasoning for not reconciling. 

Think of it this way, if you decided to R, what would that look like? Would you ever get those texts out of your head, the mind movies, etc? You'd never trust her again on any of her trips.

She sounds like the indignant type, who won't give into anything, and gaslight forever.


----------



## Halien

Halien said:


> Sham, she was getting pretty low on funds, but I thought you put your recent payments in another account. Is she asking for money so far?


I only ask because you mentioned some texts about her planning an exit plan. I learned a big lesson from my father, unfortunately, about his true motivations for staying with my mother at times. If her financial picture looks dark as a result of you leaving her, it is entirely possible that you could get an emotional appeal for reconciliation. It looks real, feels real, but it is for very personal reasons, in cases like this. Guard yourself, if you think this is a risk.


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

I am not here to tell you what to do, But I would go and give a call to your banker, I have a feeling she took money away and hid it in a secret account

you need to make sure she did not stole money away preparing for the big leave


----------



## Gabriel

One more thing...the fact you haven't run over there pointing at the texts screaming tells me you are a very strong individual. 

I saw an email from my wife to her OM, took 3 hours to process it, and confronted her immediately with a sh*tstorm. And it wasn't nearly on this level of indiscretion. Kudos to you.


----------



## Halien

Mike11 said:


> Sham
> 
> I am not here to tell you what to do, But I would go and give a call to your banker, I have a feeling she took money away and hid it in a secret account
> 
> you need to make sure she did not stole money away preparing for the big leave


That's what I'm getting at. It is easy to assume that she is fixated on the other man, but forget that some are equally fixated on a financial exit plan.


----------



## Shaggy

Here one theory on what has been going on:

On the long trip they hooked up, and she felt some guilt
Next while home she decided to leave sham for the OM and began building her stash to be with the OM
On the most recent week OM somehow didnt seem as eager to leave his wife as she hoped he would be. 
They had a fight. Later he talked nice to her and she ran to Vegas to make up
Now she's back and her fantasy to run away with OM is on hold and reduced to continuing cheating because he won't leave his wife. 

Meanwhile Sham has caught on and is going bring the party crashing down. Shell try running to the OM for help but hopefully he will be dealing with his own problems courtesy of Sham!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

now reading trough all of this again, I am now more then convinced that all her spending was more of transferring money to hidden accounts for her to be able to leave 

I think at this point before you actually confront her again go to the bank and separate your finances, cut the credit cards ASAP 
she is racking debt that you will end up paying 

I strongly urge you to call the bank


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shaggy said:


> Here one theory on what has been going on:
> 
> On the long trip they hooked up, and she felt some guilt
> Next while home she decided to leave sham for the OM and began building her stash to be with the OM
> On the most recent week OM somehow didnt seem as eager to leave his wife as she hoped he would be.
> They had a fight. Later he talked nice to her and she ran to Vegas to make up
> Now she's back and her fantasy to run away with OM is on hold and reduced to continuing cheating because he won't leave his wife.
> 
> Meanwhile Sham has caught on and is going bring the party crashing down. Shell try running to the OM for help but hopefully he will be dealing with his own problems courtesy of Sham!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brilliant!!

and they laughed at you at the university!!!

Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!!!



in all seriousness, that fits to what Sham has uncovered and is unfortunately a very common cheater script


----------



## aug

Shaggy said:


> Here one theory on what has been going on:
> 
> On the long trip they hooked up, and she felt some guilt
> Next while home she decided to leave sham for the OM and began building her stash to be with the OM
> On the most recent week OM somehow didnt seem as eager to leave his wife as she hoped he would be.
> They had a fight. Later he talked nice to her and she ran to Vegas to make up
> Now she's back and her fantasy to run away with OM is on hold and reduced to continuing cheating because he won't leave his wife.
> 
> Meanwhile Sham has caught on and is going bring the party crashing down. Shell try running to the OM for help but hopefully he will be dealing with his own problems courtesy of Sham!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Simple explanation and the most likely. The crying before the Vegas trip is the key.

She most likely has money hidden away. Let her deal with her own staged financial mess.


----------



## golfergirl

Mike11 said:


> Sham
> 
> now reading trough all of this again, I am now more then convinced that all her spending was more of transferring money to hidden accounts for her to be able to leave
> 
> I think at this point before you actually confront her again go to the bank and separate your finances, cut the credit cards ASAP
> she is racking debt that you will end up paying
> 
> I strongly urge you to call the bank


Whoa! Good thoughts! Never heard of $1400 hair extensions! Unless you're Hollywood!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Sham's wife and the OM are both trash. They have both ruined their lives.

Here is the future for them ..... Sham wife will be left alone, she will approach the OM, but will find that he is clinging to his wife. The OM will be trying to keep his family together. The OM may talk his wife into allowing him to stay, but his marriage will never be the same. His wife will never truly respect him again. If the OM loses his wife, he may end up with Sham's wife .... but they will not last. They know what they are each capable of. Once the secretive affair is out in the open, the excitement of their relationship will die.

Sham will be with winner in this terrible situation. He will come out of it with his integrity. He will be away from this woman that he loves, but doesn't deserve his love. It is going to be a difficult few months, but Shamwow will SHINE.

Get away from her as quietly and quickly as you can Sham. Get to the bank and get your name off of anything joint and empty any accounts that she hasn't already done so.


----------



## Amalgum Tattoo

Shaggy said:


> On the long trip they hooked up, and she felt some guilt
> Next while home she decided to leave sham for the OM and began building her stash to be with the OM
> On the most recent week OM somehow didnt seem as eager to leave his wife as she hoped he would be.
> They had a fight. Later he talked nice to her and she ran to Vegas to make up
> Now she's back and her fantasy to run away with OM is on hold and reduced to continuing cheating because he won't leave his wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I think this could be very close to the truth. The snippets we've seen seem to indicate that she's conflicted, but totally fogged. I think the way she reacted to the attorney comments (guilt and self-defeat) is a giveaway that she isn't ready (financially) to get out.

But the other evidence about feeling dark, "will be ok someday"... I dunno. She knows it's wrong, whether she loves the other guy or not - she may want out of the marriage no matter what.

Plus, some of the other comments about being attractive, etc. The whole thing screams mid-life crisis to me.


----------



## Mike11

Mid life crisis at 36 ? 

Does not make sense to me but possible


----------



## golfergirl

Mike11 said:


> Mid life crisis at 36 ?
> 
> Does not make sense to me but possible


I think what bothers me is the coldness and calculating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Agreed 

I think she is going to be sorry eventually 

Seen it before


----------



## sam83

why the very slow moves sham u didn't want her to control it again i wish 

talk to the banker secure ur finances and finish her


----------



## golfergirl

Mike11 said:


> Agreed
> 
> I think she is going to be sorry eventually
> 
> Seen it before


I had to plot and sneak and squirrel away money to leave an abusive spouse and did so with more heart and care than Sham's wife. I did it for survival and still struggled with the dishonesty.
What's the move today Sham?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

GG

It is not the same 

You had been abused, this justify everything in my book yo be able to get away, your abusive spouse needed to struggle with the fact that he abused you, what kind of animal can be abusive to his spouse or his children 

You had every right to do anything you can to get away


----------



## golfergirl

Mike11 said:


> GG
> 
> It is not the same
> 
> You had been abused, this justify everything in my book yo be able to get away, your abusive spouse needed to struggle with the fact that he abused you, what kind of animal can be abusive to his spouse or his children
> 
> You had every right to do anything you can to get away


It was over 10 years ago and I know I did what I had to but even then the deception bothered me. And that was for survival, not recreation. I guess that's why her coldness really gets to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

Almostrecovered said:


> have the PI get her work address
> I called the OM's wife and he had fed her lies that my wife is crazy and that she was using him to "wake me up by making me jealous and get the marriage back on track" (I mean really?) She was so defensive I never had time to present the proof fully. So I sent the proof via registered mail to her work.


I do like the idea of giving her proof via registered mail, however she may be a SAHM. If they have kids and the OM travels a lot for work, odds are likely OMW is not working.

If sent to her house, does registered mail mean only she can sign for it?

More important to secure your financial situation first SW. Sounds like your wife is a plotter and has been making her exit plan for a few months. I do think it's a possibility if you try to exit first she'll try to manipulate you to R, but it'd be hard to trust her true motivation. I can see why R looks very difficult, if not impossible, at this point.


----------



## Mike11

I once had a girlfriend that I have dated for close to 2 years 

She had this ability to coldly detach from people close to her when she was able to and give logically calculate reasons for doing it 
it is almost like a Mr Spok from the Star Trek series 

she would do that in a hardhearted calculated mode having no regards to emotions or hurt caused by her decisions and actions 
as if she has no empathy whatsoever to other people feelings 
you can guess where the relationship ended up but what Shams wife is doing very much reminds me of my old Girlfriend

some people has that ability to emotionally disconnect and become selfish self absorbed monsters


----------



## morituri

golfergirl said:


> I guess that's why her coldness really gets to me.


golfergirl,

The only thing you have in common with her is that you are a woman - a good one - but that's where the similarities stop.


----------



## ManDup

Shaggy said:


> Here one theory on what has been going on:
> 
> On the long trip they hooked up, and she felt some guilt
> Next while home she decided to leave sham for the OM and began building her stash to be with the OM
> On the most recent week OM somehow didnt seem as eager to leave his wife as she hoped he would be.
> They had a fight. Later he talked nice to her and she ran to Vegas to make up
> Now she's back and her fantasy to run away with OM is on hold and reduced to continuing cheating because he won't leave his wife.
> 
> Meanwhile Sham has caught on and is going bring the party crashing down. Shell try running to the OM for help but hopefully he will be dealing with his own problems courtesy of Sham!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And she would have gotten away with it, if not for you meddling kids.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Saffron said:


> I do like the idea of giving her proof via registered mail, however she may be a SAHM. If they have kids and the OM travels a lot for work, odds are likely OMW is not working.
> 
> If sent to her house, does registered mail mean only she can sign for it?
> 
> More important to secure your financial situation first SW. Sounds like your wife is a plotter and has been making her exit plan for a few months. I do think it's a possibility if you try to exit first she'll try to manipulate you to R, but it'd be hard to trust her true motivation. I can see why R looks very difficult, if not impossible, at this point.



that's why I suggested to get the PI to get this info
I signed the other day for my work partner's registered mail so I'm not certain if you can pay extra to get an individual

I do know UPS and FEDEX have those options


----------



## Mike11

morituri said:


> golfergirl,
> 
> The only thing you have in common with her is that you are a woman - a good one - but that's where the similarities stop.




Agree 100% ^^^^^^


----------



## ManDup

golfergirl said:


> It was over 10 years ago and I know I did what I had to but even then the deception bothered me. And that was for survival, not recreation. I guess that's why her coldness really gets to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most women are genuinely unable to emotionally attach to more than one man at the same time, due to long conditioning and biological urges. With men that is not the case; the OM just wants to get laid. That's why he will cling to his wife, and sham's wife will be navigating a watercourse without a manual propelling device.


----------



## Mike11

With a Huge Water fall at the end of it I might add


----------



## Gabriel

ManDup said:


> And she would have gotten away with it, if not for you meddling kids.


FYI, I get this joke....:lol:


----------



## lht285

At this point I would not worry about money stashed away, you have already put the money you have made lately in another account. I would now get the heck out of there. After you are gone, papers are signed/served I would then just do my best to get it done and be done with it. You don't need long term agony. I know you still have deep feelings for her, but I think you need to get it done and look for a woman that you deserve!


----------



## Amalgum Tattoo

Mike11 said:


> Mid life crisis at 36 ?
> 
> Does not make sense to me but possible


Agreed in most circumstances.

It's possible she hasn't been happy for some time and meeting this guy has been a catalyst for change in her mind. Like an "OMG, I'm getting old and I'm not happy and and and and... " etc.

You know, being already worried outwardly about her looks, etc etc - it makes me wonder if she is reaching some kind of age limit in her mind where she will no longer have the opportunity to go out and do what she wants.


----------



## Dadof3

Haven't heard from Sham yet today. Hope everything is going well....


----------



## Almostrecovered

Dadof3 said:


> Haven't heard from Sham yet today. Hope everything is going well....



???

he posted a few times this morning


----------



## Dadof3

Must have missed it somehow.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Dadof3 said:


> Must have missed it somehow.


I've been getting *Sha*ggy and *Sha*mwow mixed up a lot this past week


----------



## Dadof3

I missed page 73. Now I'm up to speed on Sham's whereabouts. You are right - getting mixed up between Shaggy and Shams comments! We need a Scooby Doo now - don't we?

Dont know about you folks, but I'm curious about something: It doesn't sounds like she's very anxious to push some kinda physical intimacy with Sham (seduce - etc) with how close of proximity they've been. 

I'd think she'd insist and not take any prisoners. Seems like a guilt thing.


----------



## Mike11

IMHO A spouse whom is planning exit strategy with cold heart like she has done will not have any emotional/sexual interest in her Husband any more and will definitely not initiate sex


----------



## Shamwow

Hey all,

Still working through texts. Pretending to work the rest of the day. She now has a meeting at 4:30 across town for a new job. Would be working at home, but not that it matters anymore. The point is, I now have time to pack, hide my stuff in the garage or something, print out a short list of choice texts, write a note, grab the papers and be ready to leave.

She will have the car, so I have no option but to wait until she gets home. When she's inside, I'll go out and pack the car in the garage. Then I'll come back in, grab the papers/note/text list, go set it down in front of her and say "I have to leave now." And then try to just walk out and go while she figures out what it all means.

When she comes after me (assuming she does, even if it's just to yell or whatever), I'll just say "I'll give you a call in maybe a week. We can talk then."

And then I'm out. Don't know if I'll talk to her in a week, don't care right now.

Then tomorrow it's to the bank, safe deposit, PO box and hopefully I'll have the OMW contact info by then and can start that rolling.


----------



## Mike11

Hey Sham, 

I am sorry that you have to go through that, Just as a word of advice, I would call the bank today not tomorrow and work on transferring what ever left out in the accounts and cancel the joint credit cards, she is going to rack a massive debt just in spite to you


----------



## Shaggy

Anything on the var from the car yesterday?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thecw

Shamwow said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Still working through texts. Pretending to work the rest of the day. She now has a meeting at 4:30 across town for a new job. Would be working at home, but not that it matters anymore. The point is, I now have time to pack, hide my stuff in the garage or something, print out a short list of choice texts, write a note, grab the papers and be ready to leave.
> 
> She will have the car, so I have no option but to wait until she gets home. When she's inside, I'll go out and pack the car in the garage. Then I'll come back in, grab the papers/note/text list, go set it down in front of her and say "I have to leave now." And then try to just walk out and go while she figures out what it all means.
> 
> When she comes after me (assuming she does, even if it's just to yell or whatever), I'll just say "I'll give you a call in maybe a week. We can talk then."
> 
> And then I'm out. Don't know if I'll talk to her in a week, don't care right now.
> 
> Then tomorrow it's to the bank, safe deposit, PO box and hopefully I'll have the OMW contact info by then and can start that rolling.


Do not like this plan. You are always giving her concessions..."I'll call you..." wtf. I'm done with this thread, I predict Sham folds within a month and he's back with her. I also predict he's going through this again in 6 months.


----------



## sam83

Shamwow said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Still working through texts. Pretending to work the rest of the day. She now has a meeting at 4:30 across town for a new job. Would be working at home, but not that it matters anymore. The point is, I now have time to pack, hide my stuff in the garage or something, print out a short list of choice texts, write a note, grab the papers and be ready to leave.
> 
> She will have the car, so I have no option but to wait until she gets home. When she's inside, I'll go out and pack the car in the garage. Then I'll come back in, grab the papers/note/text list, go set it down in front of her and say "I have to leave now." And then try to just walk out and go while she figures out what it all means.
> 
> When she comes after me (assuming she does, even if it's just to yell or whatever), I'll just say "I'll give you a call in maybe a week. We can talk then."
> 
> And then I'm out. Don't know if I'll talk to her in a week, don't care right now.
> 
> Then tomorrow it's to the bank, safe deposit, PO box and hopefully I'll have the OMW contact info by then and can start that rolling.


you shall do it right this time man coz if u didn't you'll owe me a new laptop as I'll destroy this one into million pieces :rofl:


----------



## WhereAmI

As a woman, nothing would kill me more than having my man walk away without acknowledging me. If he could walk away without a word I'd be left with nothing to do but wonder why I was so easy to walk away from. If he told me he'd call in a week, I'd think I still "have" him and he's playing hardball.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

All of us need to relax here

I think that this is his decision after all, it is not about us or what we want here, we don't have visibility to the full story and this forum is not about us getting satisfaction out of Sham's punishing his wife for her actions.

This forum is more of a support forum so what ever Sham decide to do I think we need to support him as best as possible, not to give him sh!it for his decision 

he is an adult and he will need to live with consequences of his actions and can make decisions without the need to get abuse from this forum 

Sham you have my support on what ever you will decide to do


----------



## Dadof3

:smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## sam83

Mike11 said:


> All of us need to relax here
> 
> I think that this is his decision after all, it is not about us or what we want here, we don't have visibility to the full story and this forum is not about us getting satisfaction out of Sham's punishing his wife for her actions.
> 
> This forum is more of a support forum so what ever Sham decide to do I think we need to support him as best as possible, not to give him sh!it for his decision
> 
> he is an adult and he will need to live with consequences of his actions and can make decisions without the need to get abuse from this forum
> 
> Sham you have my support on what ever you will decide to do


part of the support is to tell him about the weak points in his plans I think


----------



## Dadof3

Mike11 said:


> IMHO A spouse whom is planning exit strategy with cold heart like she has done will not have any emotional/sexual interest in her Husband any more and will definitely not initiate sex


I would also add that it almost seems like she's waiting for the ball to drop. IMHO

You go Sham!


----------



## Almostrecovered

cut the crap folks, he's doing what's needed- to hang on a throwaway phrase like that is silly- his actions will speak for himself

nice job Sham , sucks that you're here but I've enjoyed meeting you in a weird internet creepy kind of way....


----------



## Mike11

True, but there is a way to tell him and there is another way 

So far I have seen here some borderline abuse towards him when some members did not like what he had decided to do


----------



## Tall Average Guy

WhereAmI said:


> As a woman, nothing would kill me more than having my man walk away without acknowledging me. If he could walk away without a word I'd be left with nothing to do but wonder why I was so easy to walk away from. If he told me he'd call in a week, I'd think I still "have" him and he's playing hardball.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I might suggest just leaving with a casaul statement that there are papers on the table for her to look at.

However, no matter how you handle it, best of luck. I can not imagine how hard this is for you.


----------



## Mike11

Dadof3 said:


> I would also add that it almost seems like she's waiting for the ball to drop. IMHO
> 
> You go Sham!


:iagree:


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> And then try to just walk out and go while she figures out what it all means.
> 
> .


Sham, I think you may be choosing the best plan here. It will definately leave her mind racing with questions of what you know/don't know, and what you will be doing. Most importantly, you will have time to decide what is best for you. I hope you have a family/friend network to support you after you leave.


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> Sham's wife and the OM are both trash. They have both ruined their lives.
> 
> Here is the future for them ..... Sham wife will be left alone, she will approach the OM, but will find that he is clinging to his wife. The OM will be trying to keep his family together. The OM may talk his wife into allowing him to stay, but his marriage will never be the same. His wife will never truly respect him again. If the OM loses his wife, he may end up with Sham's wife .... but they will not last. *They know what they are each capable of. Once the secretive affair is out in the open, the excitement of their relationship will die.*
> 
> Sham will be with winner in this terrible situation. He will come out of it with his integrity. He will be away from this woman that he loves, but doesn't deserve his love. It is going to be a difficult few months, but Shamwow will SHINE.
> 
> Get away from her as quietly and quickly as you can Sham. Get to the bank and get your name off of anything joint and empty any accounts that she hasn't already done so.


Yes and then they will cheat on each other to get that kick.


----------



## thecw

I also do not think it is Sham's place or duty to seek out the other guy's wife and tattle-tell. 

The other man is not your problem...he never truly was. YOUR WIFE IS YOUR PROBLEM. You just worry about you and your wife. As men we all know how a man's mind works. Females cannot even go to the grocery store without some guy in the store checking your wife out. If that pisses you off, take it up with God for making men that way. However, your wife is the one who betrayed you and gave in to a dooshbag that was chasing her. Don't go screw up other people's lives, potentially even kids, just because you want to blameshift and get back at the other man. You just worry about YOUR PROBLEM and that's YOUR WIFE. 

It will not end well if you tattle-tell to the other man's wife. You could even lose your life over it. Trust me.

Besides, she undoubtedly probably already knows. Women are much more intuitive than men and she picked up on it long ago unlike you. The fact they are still together suggests she has accepted it or is working through it.


----------



## Entropy3000

WhereAmI said:


> As a woman, nothing would kill me more than having my man walk away without acknowledging me. If he could walk away without a word I'd be left with nothing to do but wonder why I was so easy to walk away from. If he told me he'd call in a week, I'd think I still "have" him and he's playing hardball.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. He should not say anything.


----------



## Almostrecovered

thecw said:


> I also do not think it is Sham's place or duty to seek out the other guy's wife and tattle-tell.
> 
> The other man is not your problem...he never truly was. YOUR WIFE IS YOUR PROBLEM. You just worry about you and your wife. As men we all know how a man's mind works. Females cannot even go to the grocery store without some guy in the store checking your wife out. If that pisses you off, take it up with God for making men that way. However, your wife is the one who betrayed you and gave in to a dooshbag that was chasing her. Don't go screw up other people's lives, potentially even kids, just because you want to blameshift and get back at the other man.  You just worry about YOUR PROBLEM and that's YOUR WIFE.
> 
> It will not end well if you tattle-tell to the other man's wife. You could even lose your life over it. Trust me.



I really disagree with this

his wife deserves to know

it has nothing to do with attacking the OM (though that may be a nice side effect)
it has nothing to do with wrecking a marriage or lives- (guess what? those lives and marriage have ALREADY been wrecked by the OM!!)

it has everything to do with giving the OM's wife the information that she deserves to know

hell, it can even be a health issue and you could potentially save this poor woman from STD's

as long as sham approaches her correctly, gives her the info in a non-threatening way and then lets her decide to do what she wishes with the info and leaves her alone, then I really urge him to do as such


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> I also do not think it is Sham's place or duty to seek out the other guy's wife and tattle-tell.
> 
> The other man is not your problem...he never truly was. YOUR WIFE IS YOUR PROBLEM. You just worry about you and your wife. As men we all know how a man's mind works. Females cannot even go to the grocery store without some guy in the store checking your wife out. If that pisses you off, take it up with God for making men that way. However, your wife is the one who betrayed you and gave in to a dooshbag that was chasing her. Don't go screw up other people's lives, potentially even kids, just because you want to blameshift and get back at the other man. You just worry about YOUR PROBLEM and that's YOUR WIFE.
> 
> It will not end well if you tattle-tell to the other man's wife. You could even lose your life over it. Trust me.


Just to balance this out from another view, you have every right to crush this guy later on if you so choose. When another man goes after your wife you have every right to destroy him.

Personally I would hasten his discussion with God. But that is just me. In no way am I sugestting this for Sham or for anyone else. A man knows he is not to poach another man's wife. He takes his life into his own hands when he does. His mistake if he did that with my wife. I would take him off the board and feel the world would be a better place.

My boundaries.


----------



## MarriedTex

Tall Average Guy said:


> I might suggest just leaving with a casaul statement that there are papers on the table for her to look at.
> 
> However, no matter how you handle it, best of luck. I can not imagine how hard this is for you.


This is close to the right approach. I would not present the papers at the time of departure. Just leave them in her office or on top of her bed. "There's some papers in the office I'd like you to look at when you get the chance. See ya later." 

She has no idea where you are. If she tries to contact you, she has to do it electronically and you control whether or not to respond to her.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Sham, I have no problem with what you propose. Saying talk to you about it all in a week doesn't make any difference in my mind.

But I wouldn't tell her you are leaving. Go out and pack, come in and stash the texts and whatever you want to tell her and then leave. Text her when you are gone to let her know where the information you left is. This will help you to avoid any confrontation from her.


----------



## thecw

Entropy3000 said:


> Just to balance this out from another view, you have every right to crush this guy later on if you so choose. When another man goes after your wife you have every right to destroy him.


I used to think that way in my younger days. Then I realized I can't fight the world. A wife has to respect her husband, and part of that respect is not putting her husband in the position of having to destroy other men.

Now, if your wife said no and this guy kept approaching, then all bets are off. This was clearly not the case. Sham you have no beef with the other man. YOUR WIFE IS THE PROBLEM.


----------



## MarriedTex

SadSamIAm said:


> Sham, I have no problem with what you propose. Saying talk to you about it all in a week doesn't make any difference in my mind.
> 
> But I wouldn't tell her you are leaving. Go out and pack, come in and stash the texts and whatever you want to tell her and then leave. Text her when you are gone to let her know where the information you left is. This will help you to avoid any confrontation from her.


Yeah, this is good, too. Maybe text her that you have an "early birthday surprise for her" and direct her to the papers.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sham you have a plan , keep focused and stick to it. Hang in there, hold your head up high and do what has to be done. Post an update when you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ticonderoga

I did something close to his plan and it works. The kicker is to give her the needed verbal and written info.......then while she is in shock mode quickly walk out the door. . Plus if you can do it show her your "controlled" anger and rage at what she did. It is very effective and it will let a mark on her. 

The one thing I don't get is if your circle of friends knew what she was feeling. How come no one had the balls to tell you ??? Sounds like the 20 minute text session she had with her childhood buddy was possibly more than we thought. Bottom line is all of the above would piss me off.


----------



## PHTlump

I wouldn't about Sham calling his wife, or saying he will call. He will obviously need to contact her regarding the divorce. He can't just disappear into the night and never be heard from again. They own a house together (and probably a few other joint assets/liabilities) that will need to be handled.

I also don't think it's particularly important that he give her reasons or not for leaving. He could just leave without a word, or he could say he knows the extent of her affair, or he could say he's leaving her because her butt is too big and she's lousy in bed. The fact is that she knows why he's leaving. The important thing is that he leave soon with as much dignity and as little drama as possible.

My post-leaving advice to Sham is to leave her as a Facebook friend and start getting out and having fun. And post those pics. Let folks see you out at concerts, on hikes, and at ballgames with other people, including cute girls, as proof that you're not home eating ice cream and gaining back the weight you've lost.

Good luck.


----------



## the guy

I disagree, tell OMW.
She diserves the right to make her own choice in how she want to handle her H affair.

Its not about revenge it about helping some that is being robbed, ribbed off, conned, 

Whats wrong with telling a complete stranger that they are being cheated and to watch out, "excuss me mame theres a train coming and you might get hit, please step back" It is her choice to step back or get hit, the point is you tried to warn her and prevent her from getting hurt.

It just seems like the humane thing to do.


----------



## Stonewall

Sounds like a plan Sham. Move quickly though.


----------



## MarriedTex

Ticonderoga said:


> I did something close to his plan and it works. The kicker is to give her the needed verbal and written info.......then while she is in shock mode quickly walk out the door. . Plus if you can do it show her your "controlled" anger and rage at what she did. It is very effective and it will let a mark on her.
> 
> The one thing I don't get is if your circle of friends knew what she was feeling. How come no one had the balls to tell you ??? Sounds like the 20 minute text session she had with her childhood buddy was possibly more than we thought. Bottom line is all of the above would piss me off.


This would be the great Hollywood ending that would satisfy the Internet lynch mob. But not the best strategy for Sham. 

She already has demonstrated unbelievable capabilities in spinning and turning the tables. Sham's best option is to let her find this alone and let it all sink in. Also minimizes/eliminates any chance for violence in the heat of the moment.


----------



## Ticonderoga

PHTlump said:


> I also don't think it's particularly important that he give her reasons or not for leaving.


 I don't agree with this statement. His print out of the texts would prove to her he knows what was going on. She seems to think she has it all figured out.....he will open her eyes to things. Plus it will put her on the defense. She will have to do damage control with friends and family. 

She'll realize old Stew is smarter than the average bear :smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> I used to think that way in my younger days. Then I realized I can't fight the world. A wife has to respect her husband, and part of that respect is not putting her husband in the position of having to destroy other men.
> 
> Now, if your wife said no and this guy kept approaching, then all bets are off. This was clearly not the case. Sham you have no beef with the other man. YOUR WIFE IS THE PROBLEM.


I am 56. I have been married 33 years. I hold people accountable for their actions as well as myself. I am a more forgiving person today than I was previously. But I believe men need to act like men and that includes dealing with other men who poach their wives. Just my humble opinion. I agree his wife is the problem. But this OM is complicit. A predator. He should get no free pass. Sham has a certain investment in his wife. He has no children. That makes a difference in my view.

I have a lot more invested in my wife than some others. So each situation is different. To my knowledge my wife has never cheated. I was the one with the EA. 
But this is not about me. I only mentioned it to offer another view.

As I have suggested before, I think he should focus on his wife ... now Later, at a time of his choosing, if he decides he wants to, he has every right to do what ever he feels about the OM. This would include just let it go or mess with him. I am not suggesting he doing anything physical.


----------



## the guy

She knows Stew is smart, he just stopped tolorating her BS and is finaly making the move she couldn't.


----------



## SadSamIAm

You can bet that she will be cruel. If she reads that he knows and is leaving, before he actually leaves, she will let him have it. She will be personal and will be trying to make Sham be the loser. About how he failed her! Blaming him! She will be saying whatever she can to hurt him.

He doesn't need to hear any of it. It will all be a bunch of BS intended to make her feel good about what she did. Don't give her that chance. She won't be able to tell the OM how she told him off.


----------



## aug

1. While she's away at that interview, see if she synced up her iphone and get the latest backup. See if she backuped her Mac. (she should had after being away for so long)

2. Check out the VAR you had stashed in the house.

3. Gleam whatever quick info you can.

4. Stay if you can collect more info (another cell, photos, secret bank account, etc.).

5. Her bday coming up, right? You can use your massage plan of earlier.


----------



## Stonewall

SadSamIAm said:


> You can bet that she will be cruel. If she reads that he knows and is leaving, before he actually leaves, she will let him have it. She will be personal and will be trying to make Sham be the loser. About how he failed her! Blaming him! She will be saying whatever she can to hurt him.
> 
> He doesn't need to hear any of it. It will all be a bunch of BS intended to make her feel good about what she did. Don't give her that chance. She won't be able to tell the OM how she told him off.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Spot on!


----------



## PHTlump

thecw said:


> I also do not think it is Sham's place or duty to seek out the other guy's wife and tattle-tell.


That depends on your definition of place or duty. If you see a man blindfold his wife and start walking her toward a cliff, is it your place or duty to warn her, or is it her problem? I would feel obligated to warn her. If she chooses not to believe me, then I tried. But I can't just say, "Well she should have married better."



thecw said:


> The other man is not your problem...he never truly was. YOUR WIFE IS YOUR PROBLEM. You just worry about you and your wife. As men we all know how a man's mind works. Females cannot even go to the grocery store without some guy in the store checking your wife out. If that pisses you off, take it up with God for making men that way. However, your wife is the one who betrayed you and gave in to a dooshbag that was chasing her.


You're half right. His wife is his main problem. However, infidelity would go way down in this country if people behaved morally and refused to get involved with someone who is married.

I am a married man and I will admit to checking out other women. Even married women. But that is where I draw the line. I don't approach them. I don't attempt to seduce them. And if they approached me, I would decline. God may have installed the desire to cheat, but he also commanded us to remain faithful.



thecw said:


> Don't go screw up other people's lives, potentially even kids, just because you want to blameshift and get back at the other man. You just worry about YOUR PROBLEM and that's YOUR WIFE.


If a bank robber goes to jail, is it the fault of the police who caught him? Or is it his own fault for choosing to rob a bank? Should the police consider the robber's family and kids before deciding to arrest him, or should he have considered them before choosing his course of action?



thecw said:


> It will not end well if you tattle-tell to the other man's wife. You could even lose your life over it. Trust me.



I could see a man poaching another man's wife being in physical danger. I can't see how a man could be in danger for blowing up his wife's affair. But you should write that one up for the Lifetime channel.



thecw said:


> Besides, she undoubtedly probably already knows. Women are much more intuitive than men and she picked up on it long ago unlike you. The fact they are still together suggests she has accepted it or is working through it.


She may not know. This guy may have no emotional investment with Sham's or his own wife, so he has no guilt on display. Also, she may be in denial, much like Sham was early in this thread. Denial is not uniquely male. It's universal.


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow,don't talk to her at all just leave the texts and papers on the table and go.

She's a big girl, she'll Figure it out.
You don't need a confrontation with her right now.

Call her in a couple of days to figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall

tacoma said:


> Shamwow,don't talk to her at all just leave the texts and papers on the table and go.
> 
> She's a big girl, she'll Figure it out.
> You don't need a confrontation with her right now.
> 
> Call her in a couple of days to figure it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, but let the lawyer call her instead. any discussion he has with her is gonna be more lies and defensive viciousness!


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> You can bet that she will be cruel. If she reads that he knows and is leaving, before he actually leaves, she will let him have it. She will be personal and will be trying to make Sham be the loser. About how he failed her! Blaming him! She will be saying whatever she can to hurt him.
> 
> He doesn't need to hear any of it. It will all be a bunch of BS intended to make her feel good about what she did. Don't give her that chance. She won't be able to tell the OM how she told him off.


And how the OM was a real man and made her feel like a real woman and how he new what to do for her. How he could reach parts odf hre he could not ... yadda yadda yadda. Whatever she thinks would hurt him.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Still working through texts. Pretending to work the rest of the day. She now has a meeting at 4:30 across town for a new job. Would be working at home, but not that it matters anymore. The point is, I now have time to pack, hide my stuff in the garage or something, *print out a short list of choice texts*, write a note, grab the papers and be ready to leave.
> 
> She will have the car, so I have no option but to wait until she gets home. When she's inside, I'll go out and pack the car in the garage. Then I'll come back in, *grab the papers/note/text list, go set it down in front of her *and say "I have to leave now." And then try to just walk out and go while she figures out what it all means.
> ...



Eventually you will be forced to disclose how you got the texts. Have your lawyer addressed the legal liability of how you obtained the source?


----------



## joe kidd

Entropy3000 said:


> And how the OM was a real man and made her feel like a real woman and how he new what to do for her. How he could reach parts odf hre he could not ... yadda yadda yadda. Whatever she thinks would hurt him.


Real man...Hah! That's why he was a sneaky little *****. My WW's real man calls the cops on me when confronted.


----------



## aug

Entropy3000 said:


> And how the OM was a real man and made her feel like a real woman and how he new what to do for her. How he could reach parts odf hre he could not ... yadda yadda yadda. Whatever she thinks would hurt him.


And he could reply with "you're an ugly person"


----------



## Entropy3000

aug said:


> And he could reply with "you're an ugly person"


Just sayin, there is no point in giving her a shot at him at all.

Let her get mad with herself. Drop what he needs to and go.

She may even throw something at him and indeed call the cops and say he abused her.

He should be gone.


----------



## Mike11

That is why he need the VAR when he confronts her


----------



## sam83

damn it guys there 2-3 pages in this thread every 15 min I started to take it little personal here if sham didn't control it well this time I might hit the wall with my head .LOL

best wishes to u man and remember either u took her back or D this is ur moment that will stay with u to the end of ur life and u surly need to be proud with it so do it as planned and don't lose to her


----------



## thecw

It's happy hour time, could Stew be out having a beer, giggling, and having a good time with the wifey?


----------



## PHTlump

He's likely packing in preparation of the STBX getting home in a couple of hours.


----------



## sam83

keep in mind the A-team Hannibal Smith quote I love it when a plan comes together with the cigar in his mouth LOL


----------



## Stonewall

Entropy3000 said:


> Just sayin, there is no point in giving her a shot at him at all.
> 
> Let her get mad with herself. Drop what he needs to and go.
> 
> She may even throw something at him and indeed call the cops and say he abused her.
> 
> He should be gone.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

You are absolutely right. I have seen this happen in my job tons of times! Surprised I didn't think of it first.


----------



## Entropy3000

joe kidd said:


> Real man...Hah! That's why he was a sneaky little *****. *My WW's real man calls the cops on me when confronted.*


“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

I do get your point. No doubt the OM would do just that in almost all circumstances. 

This is another reason anything like this should be considered very carefully and not in the heat of passion. Revenge is best served cold. You have to know what you intend to get out of it. In all but a very few cases the revenge should take a different form than the physical.

Veritas Aequitas


----------



## Entropy3000

sam83 said:


> keep in mind the A-team Hannibal Smith quote I love it when a plan comes together with the cigar in his mouth LOL


"I pity da fool!"


----------



## thecw

sam83 said:


> keep in mind the A-team Hannibal Smith quote I love it when a plan comes together with the cigar in his mouth LOL


Come on guys, we're all here to support WowSham getting his balls back out of Mrs. WowSham's purse, however he decides to...let's keep it serious LOL


----------



## Stonewall

Wonder how much longer before IT starts trying to figure out what the hell TAM is on the internet log?
I can't beleive they haven't blocked me from it yet!


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> Come on guys, we're all here to support WowSham getting his balls back out of Mrs. WowSham's purse, however he decides to...let's keep it serious LOL


Humor is good to help diffuse explosive situations.


----------



## Entropy3000

Stonewall said:


> Wonder how much longer before IT starts trying to figure out what the hell TAM is on the internet log?
> I can't beleive they haven't blocked me from it yet!


LOL. Be careful. My excuse will be just trying to stay married even though this company works me too many hours.


----------



## sam83

thecw said:


> Come on guys, we're all here to support WowSham getting his balls back out of Mrs. WowSham's purse, however he decides to...let's keep it serious LOL


I think Hannibal is a good support he was brilliant and make great plans :smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

Entropy3000 said:


> Just sayin, there is no point in giving her a shot at him at all.
> 
> Let her get mad with herself. Drop what he needs to and go.
> 
> She may even throw something at him and indeed call the cops and say he abused her.
> 
> He should be gone.


Per what 8 posted from Patton:

"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."

He gains nothing in letting her go off on him. So don't fight that battle.


----------



## crossbar

I would suggest that if he just drops the paperwork and leaves he should turn off his phone. Once she realizes that he knows she lied, she is gonna blow up his phone!! With, of course, more lies. 
Therefore, he shouldn't be talking to her at all. Plus, those panties results should be available pretty soon. I have a feeling those are gonna be positive and that will only re-enforce his reasons not to contact her.


----------



## thecw

Confucius say: man who walk through airport door sideway is going to Bangkok


----------



## WhereAmI

crossbar said:


> I would suggest that if he just drops the paperwork and leaves he should turn off his phone. Once she realizes that he knows she lied, she is gonna blow up his phone!! With, of course, more lies.


That's a very good point. It's hard not to respond to someone who will deny or sling insults when they've been caught red handed. Moreso when that person just turned your world upside down. Take care of yourself, Sham. 

Remember to never reveal your sources as well. There is no good reason to do so. It can only backfire. You owe her no explanation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

I disagree the 1st co frontation on Tue. indicates that she will cry get on the phone with OM, it will happen again, she will not cry for the loose of the marriage but the finacial hardship.

I believe she wants out and has been waiting for him to make the move.

Yes ther could be a blow up...not b/c cause of the marriage , but b/c of the finacial hardship he has placed her in.

I suspect that she will not blow up his cell but the OM's


----------



## the guy

Not revealing the source is great for the R and validating NC, but at this point Sham should slap those emails right in her lap, how he does it is up to him.

I left my evidence right next to my WW night stand, to find when she woke up I was gone. Letting her absorb the reality of her second life being exposed by me.

It was alot easier to deal with my WW after the shock of being exposed........emotions were more in check when we made our next contact, in my case it was 8 hours.


----------



## ManDup

Entropy3000 said:


> LOL. Be careful. My excuse will be just trying to stay married even though this company works me too many hours.


I'm sure my IT guy is on here if he knows about it :rofl:


----------



## jenis

the guy said:


> ......Yes ther could be a blow up...not b/c cause of the marriage , but b/c of the finacial hardship he has placed her in......


Yes I can believe that she will, in true narcissistic fashion, be pissed about her financial state more than the crumbling of the marriage. And BTW, she put herself there (her current financial state), not sham.


----------



## MrK

thecw said:


> Confucius say: man who walk through airport door sideway is going to Bangkok


I finally got that.


----------



## Mike11

I still think that she hid Money away and there is no real financial problem 

Someone who had been so cold hardheartedly planed about exit strategy she most definitely worked out the financial side of things


----------



## the guy

Good point, but the house is still in her name and its upside down.

Most likely the dough she has stashed won't cover the debt.

Shamwow *was* a big benifit to her finacialy, and just the fact that she was all about how sh!tty things were and how she was stuck with that dam house, gives me a sence that she is not all that prepared...prepared yes, but to what degree.


My hope is that now that he has proof that now conviences him to move on he will be just fine this time next year. with or with out his wife.


----------



## Mike11

Correct

What ever he decide, he will get my support (R or D)


----------



## crossbar

the guy said:


> I disagree the 1st co frontation on Tue. indicates that she will cry get on the phone with OM, it will happen again, she will not cry for the loose of the marriage but the finacial hardship.
> 
> I believe she wants out and has been waiting for him to make the move.
> 
> Yes ther could be a blow up...not b/c cause of the marriage , but b/c of the finacial hardship he has placed her in.
> 
> I suspect that she will not blow up his cell but the OM's


 He's not leaving her in finacial hardship, she did that quite well on her own


----------



## Dadof3

Mike11 said:


> Correct
> 
> What ever he decide, he will get my support (R or D)


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl:

If this wasn't a marriage board - I'd almost wonder if Sham was running for office! 

Sorry - couldn't help it!


----------



## Mike11

:smthumbup:Loved it


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> I'm sure my IT guy is on here if he knows about it :rofl:


IT is not marriage friendly .... but it helps with snooping.


----------



## Shamwow

She's leaving in about 10 mins. It's on. I can't wait another day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> She's leaving in about 10 mins. It's on. I can't wait another day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


one more thing - leave something along the lines of:

Sorry babe - cheating was never Stewies thing.


----------



## Voiceofreason

do what you need to do SW...


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> She's leaving in about 10 mins. It's on. I can't wait another day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck brother. Stay strong. Keep your dignity. I would not blow up on her or give her that chance with you. Emotions run too high.


----------



## PHTlump

How about, "Victory is mine!"


----------



## Almostrecovered




----------



## sam83

Almostrecovered said:


>


I love this one u guys re great


----------



## MrQuatto

Sham, everyone has their own ideas of what should happen. All i'm going to say is that however you move on from this moment, many of us on here have your back.

Hope this is the step towards a new life for Sham 

Q~


----------



## Shamwow

All set. Stuff hidden in garage. Notes ready to go.

Not sure why I'm posting this note here, but feels right:

My Love,

I did everything I could to give you a chance to tell me your side of things and try to restore my faith in you and in us. You responded with denial, lies and secrecy. With that hanging over our marriage, there is no hope.

Clearly you are no longer happy being married to me. Go be single and enjoy life.

I'll be back for my things eventually, including ____ (my dog). Regret that we have come to this. You meant the world to me.


- Sham
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Underneath that will be a list of texts that tells the whole story. Underneath that, the papers.

When she gets back I'll go out to the garage and pack the car real quick, come back in, take a deep breath, put the papers on the table when she's in the other room and walk out of the house. Then get in the car and GTF outta here. Then, I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thehusband2

nice note sham - honest and to the point! Will you leave texts? 

Good luck man and please follow through+go dark. The first week will be tough but then will get easier as the time goes by, but it is crucial to cut contact/altercation in the beginning


----------



## aug

May I suggest changing "Go be single and enjoy life"
to
"Enjoy the single life"


And "You meant the world to me *once*"?


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Underneath that will be a list of texts that tells the whole story. Underneath that, the papers.
> 
> When she gets back I'll go out to the garage and pack the car real quick, come back in, take a deep breath, put the papers on the table when she's in the other room and walk out of the house. Then get in the car and GTF outta here. Then, I don't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are a classy dude!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> All set. Stuff hidden in garage. Notes ready to go.
> 
> Not sure why I'm posting this note here, but feels right:
> 
> My Love,
> 
> I did everything I could to give you a chance to tell me your side of things and try to restore my faith in you and in us. You responded with denial, lies and secrecy. With that hanging over our marriage, there is no hope.
> 
> Clearly you are no longer happy being married to me. Go be single and enjoy life.
> 
> I'll be back for my things eventually, including ____ (my dog). Regret that we have come to this. You meant the world to me.
> 
> 
> - Sham
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Excellent note. It shows her what a classy guy you are. It may even hurt her much more than any vindictive message you could have left her.


----------



## Mike11

Best of Luck Sham 

Stay Strong


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> All set. Stuff hidden in garage. Notes ready to go.
> 
> Not sure why I'm posting this note here, but feels right:
> 
> My Love,
> 
> I did everything I could to give you a chance to tell me your side of things and try to restore my faith in you and in us. You responded with denial, lies and secrecy. With that hanging over our marriage, there is no hope.
> 
> Clearly you are no longer happy being married to me. Go be single and enjoy life.
> 
> I'll be back for my things eventually, including ____ (my dog). Regret that we have come to this. You meant the world to me.
> 
> 
> - Sham
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perfect.


----------



## ManDup




----------



## WhereAmI

Good luck, Sham!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered




----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> All set. Stuff hidden in garage. Notes ready to go.
> 
> Not sure why I'm posting this note here, but feels right:
> 
> My Love,
> 
> I did everything I could to give you a chance to tell me your side of things and try to restore my faith in you and in us. You responded with denial, lies and secrecy. With that hanging over our marriage, there is no hope.
> 
> Clearly you are no longer happy being married to me. Go be single and enjoy life.
> 
> I'll be back for my things eventually, including ____ (my dog). Regret that we have come to this. You meant the world to me.
> 
> 
> - Sham
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brings a tear to my eye. Good luck Sham.


----------



## WhereAmI

Almostrecovered said:


>


He should totally set that as her screen saver. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered




----------



## sam83

best of luck sham 

It's 1 am here and I've to sleep now I'll look for this thread first thing in morning and hope I find u really out and don't give her any chance to manipulate u like the last time 

my best wishes for u


----------



## Shamwow

Not sure if should post the list of texts I'll be leaving. Pretty hard stuff, of course would be edited, but don't want to offend anyone. Wouldnt be til later tonight. What's protocol on that sort of thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

You can alter the hard stuff


----------



## washburn

why not be like "hey baby, taking thw dog for a walk" and take your dog with you. I would want my dog with me at least.


----------



## Almostrecovered

or summarize

at this point, it's over- it would be bad to dwell on the texts right now, I suggest you stop reading them, you found out all you need to know for now


----------



## Almostrecovered

washburn said:


> why not be like "hey baby, taking thw dog for a walk" and take your dog with you. I would want my dog with me at least.



most hotels dont allow dogs


----------



## the guy

I've read enough Penthouse, I get the idea.

The main thing is it is shameful and humiliating enought to give her a slap of reality, and how wrong it all is in the real world.

As long as it is emberassing enought to show how awfull she has been behaving.

Giving her a strong dose of reality!!! Shaking her out of this fog she has had in her second/away life.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> I've read enough Penthouse, I get the idea.
> 
> The main thing is it is shameful and humiliating enought to give her a slap of reality, and how wrong it all is in the real world.
> 
> As long as it is emberassing enought to show how awfull she has been behaving.
> 
> Giving her a strong dose of reality!!! Shaking her out of this fog she has had in her second/away life.


Oh, it's very embarrassing. Almost feel bad for including some of them. But if I did that and she found them and I lied to her face about it, she would do exactly the same thing that I'm doing. And I would deserve it. So it is what it is. Sad, yes. But I feel like I'm not scared to lose her anymore. so I have to act now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Do not allow her to engage you in talking. Be strong and stay out of her reach for at least the entire weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

That a good place to be in right now, the last thing you want is to be affraid of losing the marriage when confronting.

As like you I also was afriad and my 1st confrontation was much like yours. The second one how ever was.....very impacting, especially the pictures. I mean realy my WW is a grown 40 yr old women makes a good living and she act this way when she thinks no one is looking.


----------



## crossbar

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Oh, it's very embarrassing. Almost feel bad for including some of them. But if I did that and she found them and I lied to her face about it, she would do exactly the same thing that I'm doing. And I would deserve it. So it is what it is. Sad, yes. But I feel like I'm not scared to lose her anymore. so I have to act now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man, She spit in your face, she is gone long time ago, there is nothing to loose, she is already lost, Let her go 

that is the only chance may be to have a shred of real reconciliation if you ever decide to do that


----------



## the guy

Its odd how they can deny a smoking gun, but when they have to look at that gun and see the black and white and even in color the bad behavior they are doing.

I guess they just try to block the "home" life and there "away Life. sometimes you just have to show them, if you know what I mean.


----------



## crossbar

crossbar said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, and another thing! Don't say anything about the panties. She try to convince you and others that you are overreacting. Then you can hit her with the results then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

I'm hoping she sees the reality in those emails and gets this monkey off her back, it will be the best for both of you.

What really sucks is I have a feeling she will play it off as a joke and make them out to be just fun and games, IDK.

Are you going to wait a week before you contact her and dicuss the evidence or do what I did and give it a day?


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, when do you expect her to get home? The waiting has got to be agony. No alcohol to take the edge off. You need that edge. I agree, no talking. Just walk out. She will ask you some big question, or start crying right as you are leaving. DONT GIVE IN TO IT!!


----------



## Stonewall

Good luck my friend. good luck!


----------



## Shamwow

She came home about an hour and half ago. She wanted to go to the horse track. I told her I was feeling a little sick to my stomach, didn't really feel like doing it up. Then I looked in the fridge, saw we needed some stuff and said I'd run to the store though. Then I went out to the garage and packed all my stuff in the car and went to the store. While there she texted me saying "can you just park out front? Me and ______ (girlfriend) are gonna meet for a drink." so I busted to the hotel, checked in, unloaded all my stuff, busted home and now she's out for another 2 hrs or so. Since everything's already out of the house, when she comes back I just drop the "package" on the table and walk out the back door and I'm gone. Slight curveball, same plan. Couple hours and I'll be posting "Done".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

I'm ready. No confrontation, no chance to eff up. And I will NOT be caving guys. after what I've read last night and today I can hardly stand to make small talk and sit in the same room with her. Time for her to have a life changing moment, much as I have. Because while I'm embarrassed that my wife was flaunting her disrespect for me so callously (she's apparently made out with work friends - *and their girlfriends* while out with the gang in the last month according to her texts) publicly making me the d-bag without my knowledge, SHE will be embarrassed, guilty, angry, shocked, scared, sad for herself and everyone will know that I just packed up and left her with her lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall

Swwwwwweeeeettttttt!


----------



## Mike11

Meeting another of her kniving Girlfriend to discuss how to stab Sham in the back


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> I'm ready. No confrontation, no chance to eff up. And I will NOT be caving guys. after what I've read last night and today I can hardly stand to make small talk and sit in the same room with her. Time for her to have a life changing moment, much as I have. Because while I'm embarrassed that my wife was flaunting her disrespect for me so callously* (she's apparently made out with work friends - *and their girlfriends* while out with the gang in the last month according to her texts)* publicly making me the d-bag without my knowledge, SHE will be embarrassed, guilty, angry, shocked, scared, sad for herself and everyone will know that I just packed up and left her with her lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



What the heck? Wow, completely didnt expect that!


----------



## girlfromipanema

Good for you. I'm impressed. You're in my thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> I'm ready. No confrontation, no chance to eff up. And I will NOT be caving guys. after what I've read last night and today I can hardly stand to make small talk and sit in the same room with her. Time for her to have a life changing moment, much as I have. Because while I'm embarrassed that my wife was flaunting her disrespect for me so callously (she's apparently made out with work friends - *and their girlfriends* while out with the gang in the last month according to her texts) publicly making me the d-bag without my knowledge, SHE will be embarrassed, guilty, angry, shocked, scared, sad for herself and everyone will know that I just packed up and left her with her lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll have to strongly disagree. She's made herself the dirtbag. You will do fine but I actually feel sorry for your wife. Few people can say they have screwed themselves so badly for some cheap, and I mean cheap ,thrills with a cheap trick.

Hope you also let "friends" know real soon what you think of them.


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

Why did he need to go out to get food if he is leaving? Why not just come in drop the papers and leave right then?
Whom is she drinking with? Will she make him wait? Now she may be lit when she comes back which could cause problems. If there was var, what was said?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

I would say, leave the VAR behind the radiator in the place. After you drop off the "package", chances are she'll be trying to call you, but if you don't pick up, she'll call someone else to say what happened. She may incrimate herself again and you'll have it recorded when you have to go back and get more stuff.


----------



## MrQuatto

He cant leave till she returns as she has the car.


----------



## Shaggy

Sham she is lucky to have a guy as kind as you right now. Cause if it was me it would be less than pretty 

Be strong , be good , and know for a fact that you've got people in the world who think you are a damn good guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Sounds like you aren't going too far tonight. You should let the hotel know that you dont want anyone knowing you are there. I could see her phoning around to find you and going there and making a scene!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Var fixed in her office behind radiator. Ready to rock. She'll be back in 5 mins.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voiceofreason

Shamwow said:


> Var fixed in her office behind radiator. Ready to rock. She'll be back in 5 mins.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


God's speed my friend


----------



## Shamwow

Feel like Danny Ocean right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrQuatto

So are you free then?


----------



## Shamwow

Not yet. Sitting out back waiting for her to pull up. Minutes. Prepared. Feel powerful. Element of surprise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Feel like Danny Ocean right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Praying for you! For strength and calm and peace. One step at a time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrQuatto

Chin up, calm, cool and collected my man. You are doing what's best for you here and have NOTHING to fear or to be ashamed of. Stay strong, let the tears, (If there are any) roll off like water from a duck. 

Just make sure you move along fast. No talking, no conversation and no time for her to work up a good lie. 

Q~


----------



## washburn

Shamwow said:


> Not yet. Sitting out back waiting for her to pull up. Minutes. Prepared. Feel powerful. Element of surprise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dont understand..are you waiting for the car? I mean if you got all that laid out then you better bust ass once she pulls up to get that car.


----------



## Shamwow

Yeah, waiting for my car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

The package is in my office, will take 5 secs to lay out on the table and then just walk out the back door. Hurry up already lady!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Yeah, waiting for my car.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



When you get your car, check to see if she planted a VAR or a GPS. just in case?


----------



## MrQuatto

also, go dark once you leave. Either block her # or turn the phone off. Regardless of how prepared you are, your emotions will be raw. Don't let her have an opportunity to play on your heart strings, goad or guilt you into a chat.

Q~


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> When you get your car, check to see if she planted a VAR or a GPS. just in case?


Good idea, but I'll get like 10 blocks away first. She's got to know something's up, you're right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> The package is in my office, will take 5 secs to lay out on the table and then just walk out the back door. Hurry up already lady!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please let us know when you're done and safe. A lot of people here care for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Will not answer any calls or texts for at least a few days. Promise guys. Will be hard, but if I'm going this far I have to stick to the plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

This thread is legendary. It is a playbook for LS with WS who are brazen, outrageous and beyond redemption. This woman is a fool. Her so called friends are having a good time watching her heading for a train wreck and she thinks she getting down with the girls and boys. 

When reality hits it will knock her a hard blow. Her fun friend will drop her when she is a sniveling mess and too much trouble to deal with. The OM won't want a women so disloyal that she talks about her man behind his back. She will do the same to him. He'll come to his senses drop her and go back to his faithful fiancee. 

Sham I know you still love her, a good man like you can not turn love off like a switch. She is headed for a great deal of pain and regret because her reality will not match her fantasy. So prepare yourself for what you will witness. You are the only one who will judge what you should do with her. If you decide to R, I know you will do it under the right circumstances. Slow and with a complete change in her and the value she places on you. You will also change. You are a strong man and you deserve respect and admiration. 

Don't take any less in future relationships. I am so happy with what you have done. But be prepare for the emotional up and down and keep posting for support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> When you get your car, check to see if she planted a VAR or a GPS. just in case?


But I bet she's expecting me to be the nice guy til she dumps me, so I doubt she'll have thought of these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> The package is in my office, will take 5 secs to lay out on the table and then just walk out the back door. Hurry up already lady!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she tell you she was on her way. I figure shes in a state and conferring with friend. I smell panic. This could take awhile. Add liquor,stir pot.....bam!


----------



## aug

Then go out and do something. watch a movie?


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> Then go out and do something. watch a movie?


Going to hotel briefly then off to hang with loyal friend who's been with me this whole time and has agreed not to answer any of her calls or texts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> Did she tell you she was on her way. I figure shes in a state and conferring with friend. I smell panic. This could take awhile. Add liquor,stir pot.....bam!


Possibly. She texted about 40 minutes ago saying she was about to pay and head home. Hurry the F up yo!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Going to hotel briefly then off to hang with loyal friend who's been with me this whole time and has agreed not to answer any of her calls or texts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


good. that's what you need.


----------



## Shaggy

No doubt she's pouring out all her troubles. She's got no idea the deserved hurt coming her way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

And...boom goes the dynamite. I'm out. She went in the bathroom, I planted the package and bolted. Stewie has left the building.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Legs SHAKING
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

But gone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

wow. a new chapter has begun.


----------



## librarydragon

Shamwow said:


> But gone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:smthumbup:


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> But gone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Strength my friend. You did well now take care of you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> But gone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well played, good luck , make the best of it.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> But gone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Less that 4 minutes and you got the power back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joanie

You are doing the best thing possible for yourself, Sham. Know that you are a good, decent man and in time you will heal and feel whole again. Once that day comes you will be ready to try it all again and I am sure you will meet the person who deserves you! Cleary, the soon to be ex Mrs. Sham Wow was not that person. Stay strong....you have people in the real world and the cyber world who care and will be there for you!
Maybe in time, you will be the voice of reason for others going through the same horrible situation that you have gone through.
Proud of you!!! Stay strong!!!!


----------



## MrQuatto

Yay Sham!!! 

Go relax with your friend and try your best to have a good time. Tomorrow will come soon enough. Take an ambien and leave us hens here to speculate on how batsh*t crazy she is going and talk to us tomorrow after a good nights sleep my man!

Q~


----------



## F-102

I've been following from the beginning, and until now, I've only been a spectator.

But now, I feel like coming in.

Sham, she could do one of 3 things:

1) She could contact you and be a remorseful, sobbing mess begging and pleading for you to return. (Not TOO likely)

2) Contact you and deny everything and demand to know how you could leave her like that. (More likely)

3) Pretend she never saw the papers and gaslight everyone. (From outta left field, but a possibility, nonetheless)


----------



## Shamwow

I'm at hotel getting situated. Been a half hour.

She just texted me "Broke into Skype, eh? Clever."

(guess that would be Option #4?)

Her first response. I will not reply. Promise.


----------



## Shamwow

What a cold b****. Almost makes me laugh at this point. Who is she...Lex Luthor?


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, congrats!! WAY TO GO!!

Perfect execution. You are a hero to many. Legendary TAM member now. One day you will come back on here and give advice to others, and we will all remember where you came from.

As far as F102's list, I don't know how #2 is even possible. How could she even deny all of that. It's impossible. "I'll let you work in Vegas between f*cking me?" How do you even attempt to squirm out of that?

She wants out, but instead of owning up to that, she hung on for financial reasons and felt guilty. Frankly, I see her as someone, who now, with indisputable evidence, will feel relieved she got caught. Like the serial killer who loved playing the game and racking up victims, but once it was over once and for all, was glad to be captured. 

She's probably reading all of it and being very, very quiet, pondering how the F*CK her husband got the drop on her. How the F*CK she LOST. It's so freaking perfect. I only wish I was there to see her react to it.

Sham, your legs are shaking for good reason. This is a life-changing moment for you. It was in a bad way at first, but now you are liberated. That shaking is all that trepidation and fear leaving your body and turning into excitement for what you just accomplished.


----------



## Shaggy

Well if that's remorse, I say you create a new website this weekend containing all the posts and send the link to it to all her friends and colleagues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> I'm at hotel getting situated. Be a half hour.
> 
> She just texted me "Broke into Skype, eh? Clever."
> 
> (guess that would be Option #4?)
> 
> Her first response. I will not reply. Promise.


Good, don't.

I think it's VERY illustrative that that was what her first communication was. Not "oh i'm so sorry", not "let's talk", not "thank goodness its in the open". No, she was snide and sarcastic and unemotional. That should tell you all you need to know about her. She was using you...and abusing you.

I know it hurts, but you are so much better away from the claws of manipulative woman like that. We're thinking about you, good luck and congrats on your life decision...it's the right one.


----------



## washburn

Shamwow said:


> I'm at hotel getting situated. Been a half hour.
> 
> She just texted me "Broke into Skype, eh? Clever."
> 
> (guess that would be Option #4?)
> 
> Her first response. I will not reply. Promise.


intense!! I thought you got all that stuff off her phone, not skype (or was it skype on her phone). I thought I read everything you at least posted (still skipped about 30 pages though). Thing is, dont respond!! She wants you to. Just keep ignoring and she will get more and more intent on contacting you...dont give in!


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> What a cold b****. Almost makes me laugh at this point. Who is she...Lex Luthor?


The mask has been unveiled...


----------



## Gabriel

Wow, that is a cold response. Like she's ridiculing you still. Wow - this makes you feel even more certain about her.

If I'm you, I turn off the phone completely for awhile. Come back to it tomorrow. Remove the temptation of answering even one of her texts with even one word. She really needs to stew (no pun intended) on your revelations.

What you've done could be a script for others to follow for years to come. Really proud of you, dude.


----------



## Shamwow

washburn said:


> intense!! I thought you got all that stuff off her phone, not skype (or was it skype on her phone). I thought I read everything you at least posted (still skipped about 30 pages though). Thing is, dont respond!! She wants you to. Just keep ignoring and she will get more and more intent on contacting you...dont give in!


I knew she was using Skype (on her phone, and we had used it on our laptops in the past year), but I thought what I found was just backup logs of text and picture messages. Clearly it's all stored in the same folder. She doesn't know any better either.

D**n she must've thought I was stupid.


----------



## Shamwow

Then again, the phone just rang in my room here. I called the front desk afterwards and asked if they had called. They said no. And I confirmed that there's a request for no info given out and no calls put through. Hopefully it was a mistake? Hmmmm.....


----------



## Shamwow

She is NOT that tech savvy. Right?

Checked under the seats for anything obvious. Where does one plant a GPS tracker and what might it look like?

I turned off Google Latitude on my phone the other day, so there should be no way to track by my phone except by court order.

Prob just a wrong number.


----------



## Joanie

I actually never thought she would react with tears and sadness. I am not surprised at all with her text to you. She is a selfish, self absorbed woman. She probably won't feel any sadness or remorse until her current relationship falls apart. Who knows. I hate to say it but I have known women who have done pretty much the same thing and NEVER felt any sorrow for destroying the lives of their spouse, family and other person's family. She strikes me as that type. So, my advice to you is not to dwell too much on how she is going to deal with this but instead to focus on how you are going to. Take care of you and make that your priority! Believe me...one day...she'll get hers.
Karma is a real B*tch!


----------



## F-102

I think she's fully expecting you to cave in and come home saying you're sorry. The fact that she is no longer running the show has not yet kicked her in the teeth.


----------



## Voiceofreason

...gps often planted under bumper...worst case is she bangs on your door and you call hotel security to please remove unwelcome visitor from hallway...and it is probably nothing anyway...


----------



## Shaggy

She just might be very worried about what communication lines of hers you've cracked into. This no doubt will have her very worried as it sinks in. Not to mention make paranoid. 

The var should have some very interesting content on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> I think she wants you to cave in and beg to come home. The fact that she is no longer running the show has not yet kicked her in the teeth.


Ya. Not gonna happen.


----------



## MarriedTex

Sham,

Sorry it had to come to this. You will feel bad for days/weeks, maybe even months. But, years from now, you will realize that your approach to the last week has allowed you to lay the foundation for a much better life and great relationships in the future. 

My condolences on the loss of your marriage. My congratulations in the way you have literally salvaged the rest of your life. Life gave you lemons and you have made the best of an absolutely horrible situation.


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> She is NOT that tech savvy. Right?
> 
> Checked under the seats for anything obvious. Where does one plant a GPS tracker and what might it look like?
> 
> I turned off Google Latitude on my phone the other day, so there should be no way to track by my phone except by court order.
> 
> Prob just a wrong number.


Yeah, don't answer it. If someone comes to your hotel room door, use the little peephole thing and if it is her just be real quiet and pretend you are not there. It could be her calling all the local hotels one by one and asking for you by name. It can't be that hard, right? Unless you used a false name.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Well if that's remorse, I say you create a new website this weekend containing all the posts and send the link to it to all her friends and colleagues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh so tempting...


----------



## washburn

Do you think she could harm your dog (serious question)? I am sure she is furious right now....never know what people might do in those situations.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, don't answer it. If someone comes to your hotel room door, use the little peephole thing and if it is her just be real quiet and pretend you are not there. It could be her calling all the local hotels one by one and asking for you by name. It can't be that hard, right? Unless you used a false name.


No false name, but I did put in a request upon check-in that no information be given out about me staying here, and no calls put through. I confirmed it twice. Hopefully there's not a dope working the desk. It's a nice hotel.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> I'm at hotel getting situated. Been a half hour.
> 
> She just texted me "Broke into Skype, eh? Clever."
> 
> (guess that would be Option #4?)
> 
> Her first response. I will not reply. Promise.



She's still got a buzz on, it was probably a real compliment. She will be mad/sad/maybe in a panic later.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Oh so tempting...


Dont be tempted.... DO IT! Part of this "project" is marketing. Anyone (including her circle of friends) will see your side of the story. The best defense is a great offense (or something like that).


----------



## Shamwow

washburn said:


> Do you think she could harm your dog (serious question)? I am sure she is furious right now....never know what people might do in those situations.


Not a chance...we adopted him together, we love him to death...the second pup was her desire, and I love that little pup too, but I get ol' number one. He's always acted like my dog. We both knew it.

Though...she could take him elsewhere and try to keep me from getting him. But that'll be my lawyer's business. He's weathered, 60 years old, and has a great name and rep around here. Good luck lady. Her check for the last week's work will cover an attorney of the same caliber, but won't leave much left. She will go with someone cheap. And I will get my dog back if they have to send the sheriff after her.


----------



## Dadof3

chapparal said:


> She's still got a buzz on, it was probably a real compliment. She will be mad/sad/maybe in a panic later.


The way her first text was worded actually sounds like resignation to her fate IMHO.


----------



## Gabriel

Like I said, she got caught. Did you leave your phone on and get any more texts from her?


----------



## Chaparral

Dadof3 said:


> The way her first text was worded actually sounds like resignation to her fate IMHO.


Yeah, I think she's been expecting it,just not this soon. She didn't see him putting it together this quickly.


----------



## Shaggy

Despite her front I bet she isn't going to be sleeping very much tonight. 

You've stood up to her. You broken her secrecy. And she doesn't really know how deep you've gone. As it hits her it will get worse and worse. 

Then after she turns to the OM for support he hopefully will turn on her once his wife is informed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

If she harms the dog, she can be arrested on animal cruelty charges.
Say, sham, it might not be a bad idea to get in touch with the police, like NOW, and let them know the score (pending divorce, dogs, etc...) and inform them of your plan to return to the house to retrieve your possessions. Ask if a cop can go with you so that she doesn't try any funny stuff.

The reason i say do it NOW is that she has this uncanny knack of being one step ahead. She may very well call the police after she bashed her face into the wall and say you assaulted her. No joke-I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN THIS HAPPEN!!!


----------



## Shamwow

Hope she doesn't sleep much tonight. I haven't for 2 months. But I have to say I think I'll do fine tonight (can't guarantee it, but what I feel right now is somewhere in the area of POWER and SATISFACTION).


----------



## crossbar

Broke into Skype, eh? Clever.

That's her first text after ALL the lying and cheating? No remorse, no apology? OH HELL NO!!!!

Rain down hell on her. Find the OMW's number and inform her of EVERYTHING! If you can figure out if she was doing ANY of this stuff on the company dime, notify their HR department.


----------



## Gabriel

F102 may be onto something. Not saying she will do this, but she could. 

She's either going to just be indignant and say, "Well, you caught me. You happy now Stewie?" Or she'll get real ugly and turn into a rabbit boiler.

Probably the first one, but watch for the second....


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> If she harms the dog, she can be arrested on animal cruelty charges.
> Say, sham, it might not be a bad idea to get in touch with the police, like NOW, and let them know the score (pending divorce, dogs, etc...) and inform them of your plan to return to the house to retrieve your possessions. Ask if a cop can go with you so that she doesn't try any funny stuff.
> 
> The reason i say do it NOW is that she has this uncanny knack of being one step ahead. She may very well call the police after she bashed her face into the wall and say you assaulted her. No joke-I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN THIS HAPPEN!!!


I would hope VAR would take care of this...she would tell OM what she was doing...or...you would hear clearly that she was alone and lots of pounding noise and her prob crying afterward. Jeez...would she really do that?

If she called the poloice tonight I have clearly checked into a hotel and have been seen at the counter (and ordered room service that was delivered about 10 mins ago). If she is truly vile and vindictive over the next week (or however long before I go back) I may have a cop hang out while I move the rest of my stuff.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Hope she doesn't sleep much tonight. I haven't for 2 months. But I have to say I think I'll do fine tonight (can't guarantee it, but what I feel right now is somewhere in the area of POWER and SATISFACTION).


Quite frankly, my dear, I think if she is as callous as you say, she will probably sleep fine.


----------



## Shaggy

How is tracking down the OMW going? ready to bring the pain home for him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> Broke into Skype, eh? Clever.
> 
> That's her first text after ALL the lying and cheating? No remorse, no apology? OH HELL NO!!!!
> 
> Rain down hell on her. Find the OMW's number and inform her of EVERYTHING! If you can figure out if she was doing ANY of this stuff on the company dime, notify their HR department.


PI called me this afternoon with 2 cell numbers registered to OMW. PI called them, she answered. Guessing one is personal the other is work. Have to figure out gameplan there, but prob should do it soon huh...


----------



## nada

Controversial question....

Hi Sham, you are the man. The way you have handled this makes us proud! 

I indicated a controversial question... perhaps a bit early, but think about it.

Can you think of ways this experience can be good for you? Move focus far ahead and you may be able to come up with reasons you can benefit from...


The hard one:
Would you be willing to talk to OM in order to learn what he did `right` in order to attract your wife? 

Thanks for sharing your story and I wish you the best. ( It may take only a few days to get over the worst part, if you are lucky)

Cheers
Nada


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> If she harms the dog, she can be arrested on animal cruelty charges.
> Say, sham, it might not be a bad idea to get in touch with the police, like NOW, and let them know the score (pending divorce, dogs, etc...) and inform them of your plan to return to the house to retrieve your possessions. Ask if a cop can go with you so that she doesn't try any funny stuff.
> 
> The reason i say do it NOW is that she has this uncanny knack of being one step ahead. She may very well call the police after she bashed her face into the wall and say you assaulted her. No joke-I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN THIS HAPPEN!!!


OH...I gotcha...you mean just when I go back, not right now. Not a bad idea.


----------



## Shaggy

I would give him 24 hrs or more to think he is in the clear. Then drop the bomb on him. It will be a scone blow to you wife's confidence and support network. 

She will be reacting to you instead of controlling the situation. Which is much more effective at shaking her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Yes, Sham, contact the OMW NOW. Wake her up even. 

Nada, sorry, that question makes no sense. Learn from the OM? Are you new to this by chance? I hope Sham ignores that question.

THIS IS NOT SHAM'S FAULT! His wife is mean and manipulative and if it wasn't this guy it would have been someone else.


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> PI called me this afternoon with 2 cell numbers registered to OMW. PI called them, she answered. Guessing one is personal the other is work. Have to figure out gameplan there, but prob should do it soon huh...


"Is this Mrs. X? The wife of first name X at 123 Main St., who works at xyz company?"

When she says yes just say "ma'am, my name is __, and if you are not already aware I regret to inform you that your husband __ is having an affair with my wife."

If she knows then just say ok, you just wanted to make sure she was aware. If she is shocked then offer to send her the text records and other evidence you have so she can see for herself. Tell her you're sorry, that you are also devastated, but that you thought she had a right to know. Then give her your number or get her email address.

That's it.


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> What would I say to the police? Ho would I prove that I was not at the house? Would they have to have my cell number or something (because they can get location info from the carrier as police)?


They can track the phone as long as it is turned on. Not sure about flight mode, but that may/should be undetectable?


----------



## Gabriel

piqued said:


> "Is this Mrs. X? The wife of first name X at 123 Main St., who works at xyz company?"
> 
> When she says yes just say "ma'am, my name is __, and if you are not already aware I regret to inform you that your husband __ is having an affair with my wife."
> 
> If she knows then just say ok, you just wanted to make sure she was aware. If she is shocked then offer to send her the text records and other evidence you have so she can see for herself. Tell her your sorry, that you are also devastated, but that that she had a right to know. Then give her your number or get her email address.
> 
> That's it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

nada said:


> Can you think of ways this experience can be good for you? Move focus far ahead and you may be able to come up with reasons you can benefit from...
> 
> 
> The hard one:
> Would you be willing to talk to OM in order to learn what he did `right` in order to attract your wife?


Hell no. What he did started with him placating my wife when she had something to complain about (while on the road for 10 WEEKS by choice). Suddenly anything good about me became bad, and everything bad became worse, as far as their conversations were concerned. And as far as I've got for texts/Skype/pic msg info, they had not had sex as of 2 weeks ago...they were doing each other via video chat on her travels (and his), but were constantly talking about getting around to "making this happen already". So he may just be playing her fantasies as the aloof Don Juan, who wouldn't necessarily be anything special in the actual moment.

I'm not asking him s**t. I may tell him a few things though.


----------



## piqued

nada said:


> They can track the phone as long as it is turned on. Not sure about flight mode, but that may/should be undetectable?


Yes, my understanding is the only way to avoid being tracked on a smartphone is by removing the battery. At least, that's the word in intelligence agencies.


----------



## shaung

Shamwow said:


> Hope she doesn't sleep much tonight. I haven't for 2 months. But I have to say I think I'll do fine tonight (can't guarantee it, but what I feel right now is somewhere in the area of POWER and SATISFACTION).


You have taken control from her. You are now in the drivers seat. Been watching this for a while now and I must say good job! 

What about the OMs wife? She deserves to know what a slimebag her ol man is.


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> Hell no. What he did started with him placating my wife when she had something to complain about. Suddenly anything good about me became bad, and everything bad became worse, as far as their conversations were concerned. And as far as I've got for texts/Skype/pic msg info, they had not had sex as of 2 weeks ago...they were doing each other via video chat on her travels (and his), but were constantly talking aboutgetting aroud to "making this happen already". So e may just be playing her fantasies as the aloof Don Juan, who wouldn't necessarily be anythig special in the actual moment.
> 
> I'm not asking him s**t. I may tell him a few things though.


So you could tell they didn't have sex as of two weeks ago. Dare I ask, did you determine when they consummated it?


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> I'm not asking him s**t. I may tell him a few things though.


And there it is...:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> So you could tell they didn't have sex as of two weeks ago. Dare I ask, did you determine when they consummated it?


Nope. The backup log I have was from 2 weeks ago, the night before she left for the last one-week gig, and 1 week before Vegas. They were constantly referring to Vegas for a few weeks though, as if it would be the Mecca of carnal love for the two of them. Everything was gonna be alright in Vegas, and they'd both finally be satisfied.

But they were clearly mutually pleasuring themselves via video chat for weeks prior. In my head, it plays out no better than a physical weekend in Vegas. Worse actually, because some of this was while she was HOME and was denying me because she wasn't "in the mood" or just not feeling "sexual these days", about me or anybody.

So now people can really understand why I had no problem executing the plan tonight.


----------



## washburn

How much mores stuff you got to move? I mean u-haul amount left or car full amount? Now you might be asking...What is my next step? You may be thinking I want my dog and rest of my items. If you infuriate her too much maybe she will throw out rest of your stuff, damage it, deny access to dog. Maybe hold off on calling OMW until you get your stuff. I might suggest to wait two or so days, then contact her and tell her you are coming that day to pick up rest of your stuff. You wish not to speak with her and she not to you (of course have witnesses with you). Then contact OMW. It would be interesting to hear what everyone thinks your next move should be. I am sure there will be variances to what I have suggested.


----------



## nada

Gabriel said:


> Yes, Sham, contact the OMW NOW. Wake her up even.
> 
> Nada, sorry, that question makes no sense. Learn from the OM? Are you new to this by chance? I hope Sham ignores that question.
> 
> THIS IS NOT SHAM'S FAULT! His wife is mean and manipulative and if it wasn't this guy it would have been someone else.



Gabriel: I fully agree with you - It was not Shams fault in any way!!!
However, to me it makes sense to understand the strategies of an OM to prevent a similar event in a new relationship some time down the road. If you understand the way your enemy thinks,you can prepare a better defense. I do understnd that the suggestion was posted too early.

I used the strategy when my ex was chatting on internet forums with one guy that was apparently much more skilled than me at getting a favourable response from women. He did not know that I knew he was the OM when I contacted him, so I got a ton of tips. 

Do this make more sense to you?


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> Nope. The backup log I have was from 2 weeks ago, the night before she left for the last one-week gig, and 1 week before Vegas. They were constantly referring to Vegas for a fe weeks though, as if it were the Mecca of carnal love for the two of them. Everything was gonna be alright in Vegas, and they'd both finally be satisfied.
> 
> But they were clearly mutually pleasuring themselves via video chat for weeks prior. In my head, it plays out no better than a physical weekend in Vegas. Worse actually, because some of this was while she was HOME.


Doesn't matter, because I can guarantee you if NOTHING actually happened physically between them then her first call, text, etc. to you would have been along the lines of "nothing happened, you've got it all wrong, let me explain"

That's not the case...you got the sarcastic, snide remark of an unrepentant person with their hand caught in the cookie jar.

No worries Sham...you're in a better situation now than you were a couple hours ago!!!


----------



## Gabriel

I think having a friend or two with you next time you go home to grab stuff is the one if the best ideas I have heard on this thread. Don't go back alone. Hell if your friend can't come, bring the PI.

Washburn, he needs to stay dark from his W for a couple of days. Her birthday is tomorrow, which makes this more delicious. He should not answer her, not acknowledge the birthday in any way. I don't see an issue with calling the OMW - I forgot how late it was. Call her in the morning. The OM is going to be WAY more concerned with dealing with his own mess than running to Sham's wife after that. He will have his hands full. He will likely contact Sham's W, but there won't be a ton of time for plotting - because the OM's W will be on him like flies on sh*t.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> So you could tell they didn't have sex as of two weeks ago. Dare I ask, did you determine when they consummated it?


Though...there's a vague reference of the "hotel guy" from when she was on the 10-wk trip. I'm thinking she got horrifically drunk and did some stranger a**hole (or at least did *something*)who kept hounding her for a while after she left town. That may be why she came home "off". I haven't gone through text records from that time though, just the last six weeks or so. That would've been more than 2 months ago. Whatever happened, it changed her outlook on what is "okay", even if she was feeling guilty, she got away with it, and then it was on. Straight to daily video chat with D-Bag McGee, all the while justifying it by saying I wasn't taking care of her, when she was turning me down pretty much daily...clearly she was taken care of on her own. *****.


----------



## Gabriel

Nada, that only makes sense because the OM didn't know in your case, and you could go under cover. Sham has outed this - so that doesn't apply to his situation anymore.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> I think having a friend or two with you next time you go home to grab stuff is the one if the best ideas I have heard on this thread. Don't go back alone. Hell if your friend can't come, bring the PI.
> 
> Washburn, he needs to stay dark from his W for a couple of days. Her birthday is tomorrow, which makes this more delicious. He should not answer her, not acknowledge the birthday in any way. I don't see an issue with calling the OMW - I forgot how late it was. Call her in the morning. The OM is going to be WAY more concerned with dealing with his own mess than running to Sham's wife after that. He will have his hands full. He will likely contact Sham's W, but there won't be a ton of time for plotting - because the OM's W will be on him like flies on sh*t.


And any plotting won't explain his number 10,000,000 times to my wife, the content being overwhelmingly sexual (some was innocuous of course), AND them saying they love each other. A lot.


----------



## nada

Sham,any ideas fora gift for your W? May I suggest a dead fish? Would be fun to see her face when opening such a gift:-D


----------



## Shamwow

nada said:


> Sham,any ideas fora gift for your W? May I suggest a dead fish? Would be fun to see her face when opening such a gift:-D


You're totally right. I could send her a fruitcake or something. The most EXPENSIVE fruitcake I can get delivered tomorrow. Or a webcam and a vibrator. Or a bottle of Hot 100 and box of condoms. The list could go on.

But I'm just gonna let her sit at home without a car for her birthday with no contact from me.


----------



## nada

Gabriel said:


> Nada, that only makes sense because the OM didn't know in your case, and you could go under cover. Sham has outed this - so that doesn't apply to his situation anymore.


Not neccisarily, but it cannot be done in anger. David Shade (the sex guru) used the same tactics when his wife cheated with a bad boy (google his name to verify).


----------



## nada

Shamwow said:


> You're totally right. I could send her a fruitcake or something. The most EXPENSIVE fruitcake I can get delivered tomorrow. Or a webcam and a vibrator. Or a bottle of Hot 100 and box of condoms. The list could go on.
> 
> But I'm just gonna let her sit at home without a car for her birthday with no contact from me.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> But I'm just gonna let her sit at home without a car for her birthday with no contact from me.


YES, THIS ^^

It will be a birthday she will never forget - nor will you. Only her memory of it will be anger and shame, and yours will be of confidence and satisfaction. 

Did she try to text you or goad you any further tonight?


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> You're totally right. I could send her a fruitcake or something. The most EXPENSIVE fruitcake I can get delivered tomorrow. Or a webcam and a vibrator. Or a bottle of Hot 100 and box of condoms. The list could go on.
> 
> But I'm just gonna let her sit at home without a car for her birthday with no contact from me.


I am betting your car disappears. If it does she put a tracking device on it.


----------



## washburn

she could cruise all the local hotels looking for it (of course in the passenger seat of her friends car)..never know.


----------



## SadSamIAm

You should disable the car! She might have called and found the hotel you are in. If she has keys for the car she could just come and get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

No more texts since the first one.


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> You should disable the car! She might have called and found the hotel you are in. If she has keys for the car she could just come and get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good idea. I would do that just in case.


----------



## Shamwow

Crap. She beat me to the Facebook defriending.


----------



## washburn

SadSamIAm said:


> You should disable the car! She might have called and found the hotel you are in. If she has keys for the car she could just come and get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


to bring up one point..wouldnt that be auto theft then? Its in his name...she came and took it shes taking his property.


----------



## golfergirl

washburn said:


> to bring up one point..wouldnt that be auto theft then? Its in his name...she came and took it shes taking his property.


Legally speaking - no - they're married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

And it's after midnight now folks...the gratuitous Happy Birthday!! messages on FB will begin for her, for the next day or two.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I don't think you have ever mentioned her parents. Do you have a relationship with them? Maybe you should let them know what their daughter has been up to so that they get the TRUTH regarding why you left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't think you have ever mentioned her parents. Do you have a relationship with them? Maybe you should let them know what their daughter has been up to so that they get the TRUTH regarding why you left.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Already defriended you. Thats the best shes got? No remorse here at all. Forgot to delete your skype¿ Stupid bihatch!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't think you have ever mentioned her parents. Do you have a relationship with them? Maybe you should let them know what their daughter has been up to so that they get the TRUTH regarding why you left.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do dearly love her parents, and they've always been awesome.

They're the type who take the blame of the world on themselves...no need to hurt them with this info.

Not wanting to make a big family stir...though I would like to say goodbye to them. Have to think on that one...


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> I do dearly love her parents, and they've always been awesome.
> 
> They're the type who take the blame of the world on themselves...no need to hurt them with this info.
> 
> Not wanting to make a big family stir...though I would like to say goodbye to them. Have to think on that one...



Better they hear from you first than her.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Take the high road with her family. You are a class act. Sadly your wife is trash.

So proud of you, Shamwow!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

She's still in the denial phase where she doesn't believe that Shamwow is leaving her for good. She's so confident in her ability to retain him that she sees his leaving as nothing more than a temper tantrum on his part. That could explain why she sent him that arrogant text earlier. But if Shamwow goes dark for a few more days, her confidence will crack and then panic will begin to set in. She'll know that this is not a false macho display on his part but the beginning of the end of their marriage. She'll be like Aesop's dog.


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> She's still in the denial phase where she doesn't believe that Shamwow is leaving her for good. She's so confident in her ability to retain him that she sees his leaving as nothing more than a temper tantrum on his part. That could explain why she sent him that arrogant text earlier. But if Shamwow goes dark for a few more days, her confidence will crack and then panic will begin to set in. She'll know that this is not a false macho display on his part but the beginning of the end of their marriage.


Or she doesn't give a crap. We shall see.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

You should think about telling your side of the story to a few people:


Your family
Her parents
Her Grandparents
Her sisters
Her brothers
The neighbors
Her friends that may not know
Her friends that do
Her employer
OMW
Cheaterville.com

Or better yet, put up your own billboard like this one:










Cypress


----------



## washburn

golfergirl said:


> Legally speaking - no - they're married.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


if thats the case then i blame my ignorance. I have never been married before (and you may be like wtf are you doing on a marriage site, this thread was linked on a whole nother site).


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> Or she doesn't give a crap. We shall see.


Yes we will. Nevertheless the reality of her extravagant spending and her inability to pay for those credit card purchases coupled with foreclosure notices on the houe, will create a great deal of stress for her. I seriously doubt that the OM will want to help her out financially.


----------



## golfergirl

washburn said:


> if thats the case then i blame my ignorance. I have never been married before (and you may be like wtf are you doing on a marriage site, this thread was linked on a whole nother site).


Sweet lord no! I only know this from 10 years in law enforcement! It's definitely something she could try. Doesn't have to charge him just report it and have it removed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## woman

good luck


----------



## ManDup

Dude, you are my hero. It took me months to get where you are now. Years really. Bravo. Whatever you do, don't contact before birthday is over. That's the minimum punishment you have to dole out. This is a BPD, possibly sociopath person. I mean really, "broke into skype? clever". In the end though, like you, I flipped the script. I stole all her power by saying, "I want a divorce". At that point she said, "oh, wait, can't we talk about this?" and I said, "No, we're done". The decision was mine, finally, and that meant everything to get my power back, after 21 years. Nothing compares. Good luck and good night.


----------



## morituri

ManDup said:


> Dude, you are my hero...


Don't you think this statement puts too much pressure on him to meet OUR expectations instead of his?


----------



## sam83

yes u did it good for u man good for u 

your wife is the most manipulative person I ever heard about she is trying to act strong so u crawl back to her don't do it and I suggest start reading 180 and apply it as well and let's see how much time she'll be the cold bit** 

u mentioned early about var planted in car any valuable data from this one ??


----------



## sam83

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> You should think about telling your side of the story to a few people:
> 
> 
> Your family
> Her parents
> Her Grandparents
> Her sisters
> Her brothers
> The neighbors
> Her friends that may not know
> Her friends that do
> Her employer
> OMW
> Cheaterville.com
> 
> Or better yet, put up your own billboard like this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cypress


I love brilliant ideas 

good for her :smthumbup:


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Crap. She beat me to the Facebook defriending.


Sham

Although well executed I must say, it looked like she had expected and planned that based on the text message she sent and the fact that she does not try to call you 

Sorry man, but all her callus behavior points out to the fact that she had planned that and she was going to drop you as a sack of potatoes probably in her birthday or something like that 

it seem you preempted the strike tough but I don to think she will do much crying here

Stay strong no matter what happens


----------



## morituri

dgtal said:


> Why was 8yearscheating banned?


Don't know but his banishment is only for a week according to moderator Amplexor.

Amplexor said that this thread is being monitored by most of the moderators of TAM. Nobody can deny that this thread has gone viral.


----------



## Stonewall

Damn proud of you Sham ....Damn proud!


----------



## tacoma

Sham, just a thought.

You said she has an iPhone, it can be tracked with an app called "Find my iPhone" if you know her Apple ID & password.
This info is a little late,sorry .

I'm mentioning it in case you too use an iPhone you need to change your Apple ID password or she can track you.
Just FYI.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sham , do yourself a faviour , call her parents and expose her. Do so in a manner that is respectful but do tell them she is committing adultery. Expose the affair further especially to the OM's wife and do this pronto , protect yourself from her and the OM's gaslighting. Don't forget to break away the remaining finances.

This will take a while before the impact hits her , it could be days, weeks , months even years often with a wayward like your is it to late to change her life for the better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrQuatto

Shamwow said:


> I do dearly love her parents, and they've always been awesome.
> 
> They're the type who take the blame of the world on themselves...no need to hurt them with this info.
> 
> Not wanting to make a big family stir...though I would like to say goodbye to them. Have to think on that one...



Sham, it is a hard pill to swallow but when she has time to get her ass together she will rewrite history and paint you as an abusive, uncaring, insensitive, cheating wife beater to EVERYONE. 

The list provided by cypress is a good list and needs to be contacted soon to keep the negative attention focused on her and not you. The court of public opinion is very broad and it is another avenue to protect yourself. 

Plus, it is easy for her to hide when no one knows what she is really doing, once the affair has seen the light of day and everyone knows, she will start to feel the consequences of her actions. Not saying she will learn or grow from it but she will finally be out of fantasy land and staring reality in the face.

Q~


----------



## MrQuatto

Eli-Zor said:


> Sham , do yourself a faviour , call her parents and expose her. Do so in a manner that is respectful but do tell them she is committing adultery. Expose the affair further especially to the OM's wife and do this pronto , protect yourself from her and the OM's gaslighting. Don't forget to break away the remaining finances.
> 
> This will take a while before the impact hits her , it could be days, weeks , months even years often with a wayward like your is it to late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, don't offer any gory details but DO thell them you have hard evidence if they do not believe you and will provide it if they wish. Usually that is enough info to to satisfy them. If not, send them a few pages of the text transcripts.

Q~


----------



## Halien

Sham,
By far, the best revenge for you will be to start focusing on Sham as soon as you are able to. I'm so sorry for what you have endured here. But you've taken a powder keg of hurt and shame and turned it into a decisive plan. When you are ready to face this, pick a few things about yourself that you've always wanted to fix in your life. Things that she would even notice, like if you had a fear of being a passionate, spontaneous man. I think all of the hurt boiling in your blood can give you more determination to do it than ever before. In the end, this isn't for her, but one way our another, word will get out and she'll have to hear her friends talking about her incredible ex husband. The best revenge, though, will be if you recover so fast that she can see it in your eyes when the divorce is finalized.


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> Sham , do yourself a faviour , call her parents and expose her. Do so in a manner that is respectful but do tell them she is committing adultery. Expose the affair further especially to the OM's wife and do this pronto , protect yourself from her and the OM's gaslighting. Don't forget to break away the remaining finances.
> 
> This will take a while before the impact hits her , it could be days, weeks , months even years often with a wayward like your is it to late to change her life for the better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

First priority. You won't believe what she is going to tell people about you. They may even be able to help her reconnect with reality.

From the texts does it look like a smooth talking seduction of your wife or would you characterize it otherwise?

Hard to imagine someone treating anyone like this much less someone they loved.

Take care. But do what you need to do.


----------



## morituri

Halien said:


> Sham,
> By far, the best revenge for you will be to start focusing on Sham as soon as you are able to. I'm so sorry for what you have endured here. But you've taken a powder keg of hurt and shame and turned it into a decisive plan. When you are ready to face this, pick a few things about yourself that you've always wanted to fix in your life. Things that she would even notice, like if you had a fear of being a passionate, spontaneous man. I think all of the hurt boiling in your blood can give you more determination to do it than ever before. In the end, this isn't for her, but one way our another, word will get out and she'll have to hear her friends talking about her incredible ex husband. The best revenge, though, will be if you recover so fast that she can see it in your eyes when the divorce is finalized.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

Good job on staying on the moral high ground SW. A war of escalation thru silly revenge pranks is the last thing you need to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joanie

Almostrecovered said:


> Good job on staying on the moral high ground SW. A war of escalation thru silly revenge pranks is the last thing you need to happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## F-102

Sham, if you do nothing else today, please, please, PLEASE talk to the police!!!!
Tell them your side, that you left to avoid a confrontation, that you took the car, that you do NOT wish to talk to her, that you do plan to return and get your stuff, etc...

If she gets to the po-po first, she will almost surely report the car stolen, say that you tried to hit her, claim total ignorance of the D papers, say that she saw no problems in the M until you blindsided her...

Law enforcement is a NOTORIOUS MAN-HATING COMMUNITY when it comes to domestic disputes-they will ARREST first and leave you to sort it out later.

So, again, PLEASE...cover your a**!


----------



## crossbar

I agree with others. She's gonna rewrite the marriage saying that you weren't the perfect husband. Wasn't supportive, emtionally distant, verbally abusive....funny how that is........ because the other day she was crying and denying.....

Expose and get the real truth out there.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Protect yourself!

Contacting the police is a good idea. Bring your loyal friend with you. Hire a lawyer so you know your rights.

She knows your going to come back for your things. She is making her own plans for this confrontation.

When you go back to get your things:


Plan it in detail
Gather your stuff quickly
Try to do it when she is not there
Ask for a policeman to be present
Wear a var on your person
Have some loyal friends help speed it up.
If she is there, don't talk to her for any reason

She is pure poison, and capable of anything,

Cypress


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Shamwow said:


> Or she doesn't give a crap. We shall see.


I believe Morituri is right, the reality of her situation hasn't hit her yet. It may take a couple of days for her to realize you are serious because she doesn't think you are strong enough to pull this off. She'll be shocked from how much she will suddenly start caring about you once you no longer want anything to do with her.

A good week of NC will cause her to panic and as you get stronger she will get weaker. 

Don't ever tell her you love her or even care about what happens to her anymore. She sees that as a weakness in you so when you do speak to her next be cold and indifferent. Its time to get to the anger stage and let that give you strength to stay away from her. She is a horrible person and you don't deserve to have someone disrespect you like that.


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

ArmyofJuan said:


> I believe Morituri is right, the reality of her situation hasn't hit her yet. It may take a couple of days for her to realize you are serious because she doesn't think you are strong enough to pull this off. She'll be shocked from how much she will suddenly start caring about you once you no longer want anything to do with her.
> 
> A good week of NC will cause her to panic and as you get stronger she will get weaker.
> 
> Don't ever tell her you love her or even care about what happens to her anymore. She sees that as a weakness in you so when you do speak to her next be cold and indifferent. Its time to get to the anger stage and let that give you strength to stay away from her. She is a horrible person and you don't deserve to have someone disrespect you like that.


SW, are you out of the path of Irene. Afraid you may go dark on the board and I will have to find something else to do when the rain starts here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Morning y'all. Slept pretty good, feeling okay. First order of business was to read the list of texts that I left her last night, in order to remind myself why I'm doing this. Next order will be hitting the gym at the hotel.

I just called the police and asked some questions about my situation. They said basically there's no precedent to file a report of any kind if there has been no incident. IF she were to start making a scene or make allegations about me, then they would investigate it, and the fact that I have witnesses of my whereabouts and proof of when I left the house, they would likely consider her story BS if there was nothing to prove it.

I said, "Well, it's just that I've been warned by some friends that she can turn the law against me pretty easily if she wants to be vindictive, and I have no idea what to expect from her right now, as she's a totally different person lately".

The officer told me he's actually going through something similar right now, so he understood where I was coming from. He took my name down and said to call if there was any development they should be aware of. Other than that, he said to bring a witness when go back to get my things, and a VAR in the pocket is completely justifiable and legal, though he suggested I walk in and start by telling her "Everything is being recorded right now, just here to get my things".

I asked about the car. He said it's technically "our" car, no matter whose name it's under, and she could theoretically sue for it. But possession is 9/10 of he law, so she would have to go through the courts to get access to it legally, since I have it now.


----------



## Shamwow

Kickemwhentheirup said:


> SW, are you out of the path of Irene. Afraid you may go dark on the board and I will have to find something else to do when the rain starts here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No worries on Irene where I'm at. Good luck on your end...


----------



## Shaggy

You should tell her parents that she wandered with another man while traveling. That way when she goes to them for money, which she might be desperate for, they will be less willing to bail her out of the mess she has created.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> You should tell her parents that she wandered with another man while traveling. That way when she goes to them for money, which she might be desperate for, they will be less willing to bail her out of the mess she has created.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's pretty good wording. Vague and "respectful", but gets the point across. Thanks...


----------



## F-102

That's great, sham-you're getting all your ducks in a row!

Now, start telling your side to your families and friends. 10-to-1, she's already poisoned a good many of them about this, but at least you didn't hide it from them. At least let them all know why you won't be showing up together at family functions anymore.


----------



## Shaggy

You may still want to get the car out of sight or disable it so she can't locate it and take it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Interesting, she hasn't changed her cell account login and password (online). Oops.

Last night after I left her first text was to her female work friend that was messed up in EA issues (knew they were commiserating with each other over their deeds), second text was OM. As were the next like 50,000 texts from then until 2am. Guess the theory that she's not scared goes right out the window.


----------



## Mike11

Did you happen to see the actual warding?

That is valuable beyond believe, you can analyze here state of mind from it easily


----------



## Stonewall

Shaggy said:


> You may still want to get the car out of sight or disable it so she can't locate it and take it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

easy thing to do is locate ignition fuse pull it and stick it in your pocket. anytime you get ready to go just pop it back in and ride.


----------



## Shaggy

So when you contact the OMWyou can also pass on for her to check his texts last night.

If he is home he may be having to come up with a cover as to why he is having to write texts that long into the evening.

She also probably stayed off skype since she thinks you have it bugged. No more vireo sex for them.

You hit her at a good time after she had been out drinking. It slowed her down reacting to you. Bet she drank some more and got less and less clear headed as the night wore on.

Now she is going to wake up today with a hang over, and the way her fantasy and plans crashed down will really hit her. Happy bday!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ticonderoga

Today would be good day to contact the OM's wife and start rocking his world. Kind of hitting them with a one two punch.


----------



## sam83

sham what about the VAR u put in the car 2 days ago ???


----------



## morituri

Sham,

The only person you owe anything is to yourself. Whatever decision you take is your own and we must respect it. Don't allow anybody's 'You're my hero' or 'If you don't do this I won't speak to you" crap, influence you from doing what YOU deem is best for YOU.

My hope is that we, as a whole, have helped pulled you out of the despair that most of us felt when we were in your shoes some time ago. If we have achieved that, then we have accomplished a great deal.

I hope that other men and women read this thread and hopefully will find what they need to help them transcend their personal ordeal.

Please consider sharing your thoughts with others who are going through the same thing on their own threads. For even the observations of a kindred soul can be a great comfort to others struggling for a sense of normalcy.


----------



## Catherine602

Shamwow said:


> That's pretty good wording. Vague and "respectful", but gets the point across. Thanks...


The fact that she has not tried to contact you and that she defriended you on fb is significant. I have to assume she had plans in place to leave soon so you beat her to the punch. She a cool one; you know her and what she is capable of. Don't underestimate her, I say that because you were not up at first light to check the car. 

The call you got may have been her. Are there a limited number of hotels in your area? If you can call all of them inside of an hr, then you will be easy to find. Maybe you should change hotels every few days and go further away. Can you go to the house ASAP when she is not there to get the rest of your stuff if they have not been destroyed. She may change the locks. Get some lock picks just incase. 

I hope you have shut down you credit cards and transferred direct deposit to a new account. Also that you have evidence of her excess spending. Unfortunately if she is raking up debt you are responsible for half. The fact that she is flagrant with her affair does give you an advantage in the event of divorce in the areas where the judge can exercise discretion. 

Have you filed for separation? If she racks up debt during this period it will be all hers. My advice is to not relax and stay vigilant. Sounds like you will have to stay a few moves ahead of her. If she is a success in her career, she has male energy at her disposal and is used to winning. So you are not dealing with your sweet bride, but with her evil twin, the hard charger. Cover your cojones with a steel cup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

sam83 said:


> sham what about the VAR u put in the car 2 days ago ???


Just listening to it now...so far nothing but radio and driving. And her stopping at McDs for a cheesburger. Nothing worth reporting. But there's an hour and a half left, so who knows.


----------



## Shamwow

Saw a call late last night to a number I didn't recognize...looked it up and it appears to be a financial planner across town I've never heard of. Here's the secret money guy, I guess.


----------



## Shaggy

Nice! Now you know where to send your attorney when you go looking for the money has stashed. She's clearly been making plans.

I hope you are capturing all these screens of into because. When she gets up this morning she is gonna start changing passwords.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Catherine602 said:


> The fact that she has not tried to contact you and that she defriended you on fb is significant. I have to assume she had plans in place to leave soon so you beat her to the punch. She a cool one; you know her and what she is capable of. Don't underestimate her, I say that because you were not up at first light to check the car.
> 
> The call you got may have been her. Are there a limited number of hotels in your area? If you can call all of them inside of an hr, then you will be easy to find. Maybe you should change hotels every few days and go further away. Can you go to the house ASAP when she is not there to get the rest of your stuff if they have not been destroyed. She may change the locks. Get some lock picks just incase.
> 
> I hope you have shut down you credit cards and transferred direct deposit to a new account. Also that you have evidence of her excess spending. Unfortunately if she is raking up debt you are responsible for half. The fact that she is flagrant with her affair does give you an advantage in the event of divorce in the areas where the judge can exercise discretion.
> 
> Have you filed for separation? If she racks up debt during this period it will be all hers. My advice is to not relax and stay vigilant. Sounds like you will have to stay a few moves ahead of her. If she is a success in her career, she has male energy at her disposal and is used to winning. So you are not dealing with your sweet bride, but with her evil twin, the hard charger. Cover your cojones with a steel cup.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have not actually filed yet. I have presented her with the signed Summary and Petition for Dissolution papers as of last night, just have to email my lawyer to pull the trigger,but I'm guessing it won't go through until Monday, considering it has to be filed at the courthouse.

Are you saying I should cancel MY credit cards (I have them all out of the house, including all statements/photocopies that would give account numbers)? Or only those cards with joint access? And can I actually cancel the joint cards (there are 2) without her permission at the same time, or just remove my name from them?


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Saw a call late last night to a number I didn't recognize...looked it up and it appears to be a financial planner across town I've never heard of. Here's the secret money guy, I guess.


Could very likely be, but she may also have thought that she was weeks ahead of you on this. Seems like she is out of options for money, so it could be to get a line of credit for a 2nd mortgage or something. Let your lawyer know that you left, if he doesn't know. In my state, it doesn't take a legal seperation to begin the split of financial responsibilities, because legal seperations are very rare here. They cost just as much as a divorce. Important thing is to consult the lawyer. Big debt is likely her next plan if she has no access to funds.

You have to sever ties with joint accounts, though.


----------



## tacoma

> Are you saying I should cancel MY credit cards (I have them all out of the house, including all statements/photocopies that would give account numbers)? Or only those cards with joint access? And can I actually cancel the joint cards (there are 2) without her permission at the same time, or just remove my name from them?


You're probably better off reporting them stolen and give them a change of address to send the new ones to.
CC companies are a pain in the ass about canceling cards for any reason especially on a joint account.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Get a PO box today for your mail. Tell the cc companies your mail is being stolen and your swtching to a PO box. Then have them issue new cards to the PO box.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

There are other games if you want to go nasty, but I get the feeling you are a upfront kind of guy. So I won't even tell you some of the more creative ones. 

Stay dark, avoid your favorite bars, maybe even get a little farther out of town.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> Or only those cards with joint access? And can I actually cancel the joint cards (there are 2) without her permission at the same time, or just remove my name from them?


Cancel these. She has not only committed marital infidelity but financial infidelity as well.


----------



## Almostrecovered

tacoma said:


> You're probably better off reporting them stolen and give them a change of address to send the new ones too.
> CC companies are a pain in the ass about canceling cards for any reason especially on a joint account.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



but dont cancel the card that you have your hotel deposit on, LOL


----------



## Shaggy

Do you have her social sec number? You might want to run a credit report on her. It'll show all credit cards she has and debts. Could she have been opening up new ones recently?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voiceofreason

Call the credit card companies--the number is on the back of the card--and ask them what you can do now to get yourself off of the joint account card liability immediately. If she were to use your (nonjoint) card in your name, you would not have to pay because that is fraud and she would be in a heap of trouble (although if you have let her use your separate card before, she might claim some kind of implied consent--but even there, with your breakup, she would lose that in the long run).

Have you talked with your attorney lately? It won't be official until the papers are filed with the court, and she is served. Usually, file first, serve second, because you need the court docket number on the summons or acknowledgment of receipt. Don't know the particulars in your neck of the woods, though. Get with your attorney ASAP--your soon-to-be ex is working against your interests in every way she can...what she has done to you in her betrayals of you so far demonstrates what she is capable of and the direction she is taking. This is not about revenge...its about protecting yourself from her current trajectory of WTF betrayals, and about fairness and justice.

She has been flipping out in various ways for well over a month now...time to 180 hard and be ready to jiu jitsu any of her moves. Good luck friend.


----------



## the guy

The exposure to her parents worded by the other poster was well worded. I sugest you go there you do not want to look like the bad guy, start your damage control NOW!!!!!!!!!

Out her now and inform other that you want there support and mean nothing but the best for her and you have desided to move on b/c of her choice she has made with OM.

Don't forget to expose to the OMW, not to get at OM put to inform her of "the train coming and she may get hit".
Don't force the issue just simply inform her that you have the evidence and give OMW your contact info. Let her make the choice to follow up. Remember it is alot to absorb and as like many including you it is a process and denial is a strong force so let her take it in and she then can decide to contact you in the future. Simply inform her "that you are the H of the women that is sleeping with you husband, I have proof and here is my number".

Remember now is the time to start doing damage control, your reputation is at stake. Its not about being vandictive, but to inform other you are moving on and why. Do not bad mouth your W when exposing it will empower your W to make you look like the bad guy, expose should only be ment to protect your reputation, not ruin hers, she can do that all by her self.


----------



## seeking sanity

What has she done specifically to fuel this level of paranoia other than been a typical wayward spouse? 

Respectfully, it's good to get your ducks in a row, and it's part of the process of reclaiming yourself to get the affairs in order, but she's not done anything to warrant this level of fear.

I'd focus on getting info the OM's wife today, which could shut down an avenue of emotional support for her. The point of all of this is to put an abrupt end to the affair land fantasy. Most wayward spouses don't have a "plan" per say, they are reacting to emotional high they get from the OM's attention, and are like drug addicts, lying and doing what they can to fuel the addiction. Your task right now is to remove the drug. Secrecy, the "we're special", the attentiveness by the OM, is all part of the high.


----------



## aug

tacoma said:


> You're probably better off reporting them stolen and give them a change of address to send the new ones to.
> CC companies are a pain in the ass about canceling cards for any reason especially on a joint account.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.

Or, just phone them to cancel both joint credit cards. Since you both jointly signed for them, the c/c company will go after either one of you for any debt and that will affect your credit rating.

So, phone them and say you both lost your cards and want them totally cancelled.


Dont know about joint bank accounts. Since they are also joint and it may be possible for her to overdraw and start incurring massive bank fees. Can you go there today to pull your name from them or cancel them?


----------



## Catherine602

I think the simplest way to handle credit cards it is to report them stolen as Tacoma suggested. Don't cancel them it effects your available credit and lowers your credit score The credit card companies can't offer legal advice plus they outsource customer service so they may not understand what you want. 

Of course you need your own card, keep a eye on the incoming charges. You can get new card numbers quicker by going to the bank instead of waiting for the mail. Once you get the new cards, report your card stolen then you will have all new cards. 

Have you moved your hotel and do you still have a car? Can you get someone to do a drive by at your house to see if there is any activity? Have you planned when you will go back? Is it possible to find out what her plans are today so you can go the house while she is gone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Next time drop a wireless web cam at the house before leaving so you can monitor remotely what's going on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

seeking sanity said:


> What has she done specifically to fuel this level of paranoia other than been a typical


Shamwow has seen text evidence and money manipulation over the course of the past month that leads one to believe her most recent betrayal is part of a larger exit strategy.
A certain level of paranoia is appropriate here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity

Shaggy said:


> Next time drop a wireless web cam at the house before leaving so you can monitor remotely what's going on!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


God no! That's illegal. You can't arbitrarily put hidden camera's in someone's house. 

Read the 180. There's nothing about obsess over every move your WW makes. The point of this is to MOVE ON. Get YOUR LIFE in order.

How about finding a place to live? Getting an office set up so you can work. That would be a good goal for today.


----------



## golfergirl

Catherine602 said:


> I think the simplest way to handle credit cards it is to report them stolen as Tacoma suggested. Don't cancel them it effects your available credit and lowers your credit score The credit card companies can't offer legal advice plus they outsource customer service so they may not understand what you want.
> 
> Of course you need your own card, keep a eye on the incoming charges. You can get new card numbers quicker by going to the bank instead of waiting for the mail. Once you get the new cards, report your card stolen then you will have all new cards.
> 
> Have you moved your hotel and do you still have a car? Can you get someone to do a drive by at your house to see if there is any activity? Have you planned when you will go back? Is it possible to find out what her plans are today so you can go the house while she is gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He got most important stuff out earlier in a planned exit. Just going dark on her for a week of so. She's pretty cold though - think main way it will affect her is because she's not in control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Its my understanding that the joint CC are close to max if not maxed, remember about 80 pgs ago Sham recieved a notice of creditline increase that was requested by Mrs. Shamwow, but was denied. I think the only joint account left has or has $200.00 left.

I believe and hope he has pretected him self even before she went to 'party city".


----------



## the guy

Re member folks, R is not on the table so any futher investigation is irrelivent. She pretty much acknowledged the affair with her comment regarding skyp.

IMHO its all about damage control now.

His lawyer has the rest.


----------



## morituri

While not discounting a marital recovery in Shamwow's marriage, it is light years away of - if ever - being reached.


----------



## aug

The problem with claiming the joint c/c were lost and asked to be sent to a new address is that it will raise a red flag with the c/c company.

Also, there is nothing to prevent the wife claiming the same later and have new ones sent to her address.

I think with Sham and the internet against wife, her friends and OM, we can come up with more effective way to prevent the financial hits against Sham.

Just cancel the cards (and take the hit on the credit score) is better?


----------



## RandomDude

Jebus this thread is... 95 pages long! I've completely lost track.

Yet... from sounds of things so far though it's like the calm before the storm, bunkering up your assets before the nukes drop. She's one malicious woman from sounds of things... you're in one hell of a situation right now.

I don't know what advice to give really as I don't know the full story (I'll start from the beginning when I have time), but it seems you put way too much trust in her to the point you practically put a gun to your head and her finger around the trigger.

Personally I would undermine her in anyway you can however, keep her from "bunkering up 'her' assets" so to speak, even tell her you're sorry and that you were wrong and sing music to her ears so she underestimates you while working behind her back to save yourself from this dilemma. Rob her of any resource she has, her parents, her friends, her bf's wife, do your best mate. This is freakin' war...

Hell this makes the fights between the missus and I seem more like babies playing around with toy soldiers! I'm really shocked you're going through this, I wish you luck, stay strong, and get ruthless. Do what you have to do survive, no matter what.


----------



## Chaparral

morituri said:


> While not discounting a marital recovery in Shamwow's marriage, it is light years away of - if ever - being reached.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Stranger things have happened. It doesn't sound as if she has been completely sure of what she has been doing.... She has been played , not sure she is aware of that. However she also might be the instigator but the betrayal seems to have almost been overnight. Happy one day a few weeks later LS is Stew.


----------



## Catherine602

This is a thought - perhaps holding off on informing everyone except a core group of people. If you broadcast your business, you will be wasting energy on a useless strategy. 

Don't do anything to be vindictive, just do enough to protect yourself. Indifference will hurt her more than anger and drama. Act as if you find it easy to move on because see was not all that important to you. 

if you tell everyone, you will seem to care.


----------



## morituri

To add to what Catherine said, consider informing her core group - parents, siblings and close friends - that you have tried to engage her and persuade her with marital counseling but she showed no interest because- as you have found out - she is having an affair with the OM. That will definitely ruin any attempts by her to introduce the OM as 'a friend' because they would know who and what he is.


----------



## the guy

:iagree:
Yes keep the exposure small and remember to just be informative , do not talk sh~t about her, it will empower her and it will close the door for a possible R.......YA I KNOW NOT IN THE CARDS, but still something to consider way way way down the road.
:iagree:
That and the fact M- also has a great point about her "new friend"


----------



## Chaparral

morituri said:


> To add to what Catherine said, consider informing her core group - parents, siblings and close friends - that you have tried to engage her and persuade her with marital counseling but she showed no interest because- as you have found out - she is having an affair with the OM. That will definitely ruin any attempts by her to introduce the OM as 'a friend' because they would know who and what he is.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Perfect

No need to needlessly burn bridges. Anything could happen in the future, to foggy now fro everyone involved for major decisions.


----------



## Blue Moon

Read through this thread in a day and a half. Rivetting stuff. Wish nothing but the best for Sham. At least if nothing else, the situation is crystal clear now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

Agree with others to just tell a small, close knit group of family and friends. There's bound to be a blabbermouth close by who will get the word out.


----------



## Halien

F-102 said:


> Agree with others to just tell a small, close knit group of family and friends. There's bound to be a blabbermouth close by who will get the word out.


For those who have been through this, does telling the OMW often force the OM to renounce and sever ties with the OW (Sham's wife)? Since one of her first calls was to him, I wonder if his ties to her would normally be cut off by the call, cutting part of her connection to this circle of travel buddies.


----------



## tacoma

Halien said:


> For those who have been through this, does telling the OMW often force the OM to renounce and sever ties with the OW (Sham's wife)? Since one of her first calls was to him, I wonder if his ties to her would normally be cut off by the call, cutting part of her connection to this circle of travel buddies.


It normally would.
This is a bit of an unusual situation as if I'm right Sham's wife is in the midst of an exit plan.
Obviously he has pushed her time table up but that's all he's really done.
What I'm getting at is the OM may be in the midst of his own exit plan so the fall out here may not stay on script/

Shamwow has to contact OMW ASAP regardless.
It can only be good for Sham and possibly **** with the OM's plans life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

If it was me I would want to know.

And with the panty deal there is a strong case for unprotected sex.

Even more of a reason to expose to OMW


----------



## Voiceofreason

Catherine602 said:


> This is a thought - perhaps holding off on informing everyone except a core group of people. If you broadcast your business, you will be wasting energy on a useless strategy.
> 
> Don't do anything to be vindictive, just do enough to protect yourself. Indifference will hurt her more than anger and drama. Act as if you find it easy to move on because see was not all that important to you.
> 
> if you tell everyone, you will seem to care.


:iagree:


----------



## Saffron

If the OM wants to save his marriage, then the OMW will have him go NC with SW's wife. The OM may have been considering leaving his wife, but it doesn't mean he ever intended to follow through. Once faced with the reality, he may choose his wife over SW's wife. 

Regardless, it's important OMW finds out soon, so she can push the OM to make a decision. Right now Sham's wife could be telling the OM that she left her spouse and it's time for him to pony up and do the same. It's possible she isn't warning him that SW knows about the affair, not wanting the OM to panic and go running back to his wife. Keeping him in the the fog of the affair is actually in her best interest. When my H's OWH found out, the OW told my H then asked point blank, "What are you going to do?" (Meaning.... are you going to leave your wife?) My H said he was going to see if her H was going to tell me and see if I'd forgive him.


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> You're probably better off reporting them stolen and give them a change of address to send the new ones to.
> CC companies are a pain in the ass about canceling cards for any reason especially on a joint account.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Talked to her parents this morning. Was really hard, because they're so great. I was respectful, left out details, just gave them broad strokes of what breach of trust happened, that I had given her numerous chances to tell me her side and be honest with me, and that she, for some reason, continually refused. I told them she refused marriage counseling as well. They knew we were having trouble in general, but did not necessarily know about another man being involved.

They told me how sorry they are, I've always been so special to them and have taken care of their daughter, and how sad they are that she would do this, and then we said our I love you and goodbyes.

Hard to do folks. But glad I did it.

Called my folks after that and repeated the same process. That conversation went much longer though.

Called a few select friends (and one or two called me, having already been tipped off from the other side). I did my best to keep it respectful, and not give too many details, so overall that went well too. Have a few offers for places to stay, money, anything I need, etc. Good to know.


----------



## Shamwow

Also went to the bank and closed the joint savings account.

Calling CCs now to get those squared away.


----------



## Shamwow

Nothing of interest at all on the VAR in the car. But it was only in there for a day...imagine the one at home right now will yield some craziness though. Will be hard to listen to I imagine. Find out when I find out, I guess.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Nice work with exposure now onto the OM's wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Sham, I have nothing but kudos to you for your resilience trough these hard time 

Stays strong


----------



## Shaggy

Sham

I bet deep down she is impressed and pissed at how quick and effective
you have been at taking her down. 
When looks back she is gonna realize you were no ones fool. 

Good job
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

I only wish I handled my situation as well as you handled yours. Its one of the reasons your story was so riveting for me. You are doing a great job!

Continue to be strong, honorable and show Mrs. Sham that there are consequences. There is no design for honesty or justice in life, it takes good people like you to make it so.

Cypress


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, excellent job. Sounds like you have some good support too. OM's wife is next . That will be a great take down. They may not be suspecting that at all. Or she already knows.

But I wouldn't bet on her knowing.

I wonder what she is doing for transportation? LOL

I agree with the others that she is and has been working on an exit plan. You have accelerated it big time, which is awesome.


----------



## Joanie

Still only one text from her? That's very teling in itself. I will be curious as to what you next interaction with her will be.


----------



## sixteen miles

Shamwow,

You are a class act and a gentleman! I have read this thread as it has moved along throughout the week, and while I can offer little new advice; my heart goes out to you. Through all this you have handled it with dignity and class and I wish you all the best of luck.

You mentioned some interests like baseball and some close buddies, please pursue them and seek them out now as the healing process begins. Right now it is very, very important to take care of yourself, your health and future should be your main concern now. Please make sure you hold your head high and pick your future course wisely.

You have many supporters here and friends and I imagine that is of some comfort to know at such a difficult time. Please take care and remember that mean and discontented people can take a lot from you but they can never truly take away who you are as a person, and in the end that is what really matters most.


----------



## F-102

Damn, sham...you oughta write a book on this-you are a credit to men everywhere!

I salute thee!


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> Interesting, she hasn't changed her cell account login and password (online). Oops.
> 
> Last night after I left her first text was to her female work friend that was messed up in EA issues (knew they were commiserating with each other over their deeds), second text was OM. As were the next like 50,000 texts from then until 2am. Guess the theory that she's not scared goes right out the window.


Actually, she's in panic mode if she was texting the dude 50,000 times. "He knows the truth about us." will tend to elict more that 2 or 3 texts. At that point they're getting their stories straight trying to figure out what exactly what you know and how you found out. Then, what they're going to tell people.

Good on you for telling her parents. I'm sure her mom is ripping into her but good especially since you were tactful and respectful over the phone. They're gonna tend to believe you more than what she has to say.

Take the bull by the horns and contact the OMW, they've had time to formulate a viable story for her. That you are an insane jealous husband and accuse everyone with sleeping with his wife. However, things are still fresh and they probably haven't had time to put their plan into play. The time to contact her is now! You have the number, make the call dude.

What's the status on the lab report? Anything yet?


----------



## the guy

Sham the OMW will need the same tac that you used with the parents. Remeber this crap is hard to digest.
Inform who you are and that you have evidence in hand when and if she is ready to see it, you will be there for her in what ever info you can provide, my number is................. 

Any thing more will be even more hurtfull to her and make you look like the Jealous crazy H.


----------



## RandomDude

I love to hear it when malicious individuals gets their evil plans shot down!
Great work mate =)

Heh if only you could see the look on her face eh? You're on the offensive now, keep pressing the advantage! Nonetheless you're quite safe now with the CCs/joint account squared away, got your bases covered. And she's in a panic it seems, she won't be able to think straight.

Whatever you need to do, best to do it now and quickly like you have done admirably well so far.


----------



## piqued

RandomDude said:


> And she's in a panic it seems, she won't be able to think straight.


Or, she's feeling her own sense of empowerment, freedom, and relief because what she always thought (for the last few months) that she wanted to do (separate) Sham has now made it easy for her by being the one to "do" it.

I'd like for Sham's sake to think of her sitting at home, her world shaken, crying in her cornflakes. But, from what Sham has relayed here she seems more the type to take this in stride, like a monkey off her back, and try to find ways to press it to her advantage (maybe play the OM to dump his wife for her, etc.).

That's why I'm so happy for Sham for doing what he did and the way he did it. At the very least she doesn't get the satisfaction of being the one doing the dumping. And, by taking steps to secure his financing and relationships he has at least mitigated the damage she can do. Although, just based on what Sham has relayed here I think she'll TRY to do as much damage to Sham as possible as a way to make herself look like the victom.

Kudos to Sham. I just so sorry you have to suffer through this whole ordeal.


----------



## MarriedTex

F-102 said:


> Damn, sham...you oughta write a book on this-you are a credit to men everywhere!
> 
> I salute thee!


A book? Heck, this thread should get optioned for a movie!


----------



## Catherine602

F-102 said:


> Damn, sham...you oughta write a book on this-you are a credit to men everywhere!
> 
> I salute thee!


If he is a credit as you say, his credit is more universal in nature - to men and women who have been betrayed. 

He is an exemplar of the dignity and self- respect a LS should display when dealing with one of life's most horrible situations. He did not beg, tell her he loved her, ask her what he needed to do to get back in her good graces. He acts like he is worth his weight in diamonds as he is. It is probably one of the hardest things to do when you have been punched. 

He still loves her and he may decide at a much latter time that he will give her another chance but right now he is too important to put himself at the feet of a spouse who is temporarily insane. 

Sham's handling of this is exactly what a LS should do. Refuse to be cranked around and be willing to walk. No relationship is worth being disrespected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Sham,

Kudos for reaching out to another member and supporting him with good advice on his own thread. Even in the darkest time of your life you are reaching out to others to help them. It says a lot about your humanity sir.


----------



## alphaomega

Phewww! 98 Pages!

Shammy,

Good job on calling the parents. At least you can't be vilified by her friends and family now. Because it does happen. I made the mistake of not telling anyone of my WW 's infidelity; I just left. About a week later I'm getting calls from her brothers about how I could be such an inconsiderate Ahole, have an affair on her, and just break up the marriage like that out of my own selfishness. Then, a call from the Mother In Law saying I'm not a real man, because real men don't cheat on thier wives, and that she (the MIL) has no more respect for me....ever.

Take care. You will go through roller coasters of emotions for a while. Strength....fear....panic.... Be strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks for the kudos everyone...but I'm just a guy taking in all the info in a crazy time and doing my best to follow the advice that was given (from this forum as well as other sources in my life). Had I gone it alone these last two weeks I would probably still be wondering what's wrong with my marriage, and trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

That said, I'm alone, so life is not as I'd envisioned. But clearly it turned out to be the move I had to make for myself, and thanks to all for the black and white view of my situation. Ultimately, you were right. She WAS doing the things I feared, even though it took me a while to find proof. Long way to go though. Keep you posted on how things develop.


----------



## Mike11

Hey Sham
Glad to hear you are doing ok, 

Did she at least tried to contact you in any form ?


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> Hey Sham
> Glad to hear you are doing ok,
> 
> Did she at least tried to contact you in any form ?


Nope, just that first text message from last night. Eh...whatever. Honestly what I expected.


----------



## Mike11

You are right, Not much Surprise there 

I had a glimpse of Hope that she may be not doing what most of us thought she is doing and somewhat show some remorse so actually give your marriage a chance for reconciliation, 

I am sorry that things turn out to be like that 
But you have done very well, I don't think I would have been able to pull what you had just pulled had I been presented with the same situation

In any case Stay Strong and I hope that she "wakes up" and realize how wrong is what she is doing


----------



## sam83

Next step man OMW

give her evidence and everything she need to deal with he WH


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Nope, just that first text message from last night. Eh...whatever. Honestly what I expected.


Sham, she has shown a trememdous ability to deceive, but that does not mean that she doesn't think that she is getting exactly what she deserves here. The lack of contact could possible just be acceptance. Time will tell. It may be very telling to find out what she told your mutual friends, if you do not already know. That wouldn't necessarily keep her from trying to lay some of the blame at your feet, but it could influence the way she handles the divorce.


----------



## morituri

She must be aware by now that her financial situation has become dire because Sham is no longer her source of income. And since she wasn't able to land another job before returning home, she may be scrambling to get another before she's forced to resort to moving in with her parents. She may be even putting pressure on the OM to find her another job or else - she may be vindictive enough to blackmail him or she'll inform his wife about their affair. This may account for her lack of contact with Sham.


----------



## Shaggy

Sham, when does the OM get his comfy life shaken up? It's time to pull her support from him away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Shamwow said:


> Nope, just that first text message from last night. Eh...whatever. Honestly what I expected.


It will be a test of wills now. She is wanting to call your bluff so she will be silent for a while in hopes you break and contact her, probably expecting you to want to come back.

If/when you do contact (for stuff, money but wait as long a possible) be cold, short, and businesslike and ignore any questions from her. I did this and it was very effective.


----------



## thecw

Shamwow, your (soon-to-be-ex) wife is still in her fantasy with OM. Though, that fantasy is slowly turning into a bad dream and is on it's way to a nightmare for your wife.

Looking at this from the OM's perspective: 
Your wife was a new, fun piece of tail. It was exciting and risque to be on the road living out of hotels and having hot, wild sex with a woman he owed nothing to and had no long drawn out history with. But as he faces the reality that her marriage crashed and burned and now she probably expects him to leave his wife, he will slam on the brakes when he realizes this is serious and in no way is he ready to do that. His new, fun piece piece of tail now wants major life decisions from him. Wait...err..huh...wha...wha...happened to let's just fk and have a good time? Oh no, my friend. Fantasy is over. OM will come to his senses, realize he wants to hang onto his security blanket that is his current wife, and your wife will be alone. Only then will your wife realize how bad she screwed up everything.

Consider this:
If you tell the OM's wife, his wife may very well leave him. OM will run open arms to your wife in a knee-jerk reaction as to not be alone in life and your wife may never fully be remorseful or realize how bad she behaved in all this. She can convince herself of anything right now, and she's convinced she has made sound decisions because you drove her to this. If you don't tell OM's wife (it is neither your place or duty), there's a very good chance he'll dump your wife and she'll truly feel the pain of being a single, 36-year-old woman who most that know her true story (i.e. parents/friends) will view as damaged goods. Despite but what she said, she will get laid again...BUT nobody will ever truly love her again. No way. 36-year-old women don't find true love, they just find someone as desperate as them to not die alone.


----------



## the guy

cw,
you have changed my view on this OMW deal, well lets just say you have made me think twice, due to the fact that what you say is all assumption.

There are varibles that can exsist;
OM stays M, blows off Sham's W
OM leaves M and goes to Sham's wife.
Things just stay the same except for Shams gone

It's a comforting thought to know that this women gets burned, but its not a for sure thing. In away I'm still leaning towards tell OMW.

Even if this is exposed and the OM goes running into Shams W's arms, stats say it won't last, and in the long run both will struggle.


----------



## aug

And how about the OM's wife? Is she not another victim here?


----------



## thecw

aug said:


> And how about the OM's wife? Is she not another victim here?


Yes, she MIGHT be. However don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong. When she entered holy matrimony with OM she also assumed responsibility of watching the barometer of her marriage. She undoubtedly already senses OM's game. If OMW was a relative of mine I would tell her. If she isn't blood to me, I advocate let things take their natural course and don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong. 

For all we know, they have an open marriage. She cheats too, etc. Point is, none of Sham's business.


----------



## the guy

Yes she is a victim, just like Shanwow, now that you brought that up , how sh~tty it would be if OMW knew of the A and she didn't tell Sham? 

From what Sham knows the OM and his W are sleeping in different beds. and the OMW knows. I thinks its BS and Sham should still tell OMW, but OMW my not be the victim, maybe its just Sham, thats all.

Again lots of assumtion here.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

I still think contacting the OM's wife is a good idea. OMW needs to man up and take care of his personal situation. He is a coward for not doing so. But, theCW does have a point, the OMW's marriage is not your responsibility.

It may help your situation if you tell OMW just the bare minimum. This will put pressure on the OM. He may drop contact with WW. This would reduce her foggyness and create a less stressful end to your marriage.

Cypress


----------



## terrified

thecw said:


> Yes, she MIGHT be. However don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong. When she entered holy matrimony with OM she also assumed responsibility of watching the barometer of her marriage. * She undoubtedly already senses OM's game.* If OMW was a relative of mine I would tell her. If she isn't blood to me, I advocate let things take their natural course and don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
> 
> For all we know, they have an open marriage. She cheats too, etc. Point is, none of Sham's business.


I can tell you that I had NO idea my husband had a girlfriend, absolutely NONE and the OWs boyfriend knew about her sleeping with my husband but choose not to tell me. I had every right to know but no one gave me that respect.

She deserves to know


----------



## the guy

IMHO, I think its not about sticking your nose into other peoples business. Its more like stopping someone from stepping off the curb and into the street when a car is coming.


----------



## thecw

the guy said:


> Again lots of assumtion here.


Yes. 

I wonder if there is any statistical data of how often a man leaves his wife for his married mistress. I would double down on it being a very low percentage of the time. Men know that, while its fun to have a good time with a married cheater, they will be next in line to get cheated on and can't trust this woman for more than anything than a good lay.


----------



## tacoma

Cw's point matters not. 
Would you take her back knowing you were her least attractive choice? Do you want her back just because the OM won't leave his wife?

Tell the OMW, it's the best choice.

WTF with 36 year old women can't find true love?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

As embarassing as this sound "I heard on Dr. Phil" that 90% of all relationships that resulted from an A ended rather quickly.

I'm have no idea how that stat came to be, but its safe to say that if they run into each others arms it wont last.


----------



## thecw

the guy said:


> IMHO, I think its not about sticking your nose into other peoples business. Its more like stopping someone from stepping off the curb and into the street when a car is coming.


Women are the most intuitive creatures on earth. I highly doubt Sham will reveal anything she doesn't already know, making this all moot anyways. The only purpose, in my humble opinion, that telling the OMW will serve is to satisfy Sham's feelings of "doing the right thing" with a pinch of revenge on OM. 

I would focus my energy on moving on with my life without the cheating wife. She will end up alone and desperate. Doesn't she turn 37 soon? REALITY CHECK. Happy Birthday Ms. ex-Shamwow! 37.


----------



## the guy

easy T- 
cw is just giving a perspective, the opinion has every right to be here just like yours does.


----------



## the guy

I have heard it can be very empowering to expose to AP spouse.

Sham is moving on, but there is a process.


----------



## joe kidd

IMO the OM made it Shams business the minute he decided to pursue a relationship with Shams wife. If he didn't want Sham in his affairs then he should have stayed out of Shams.


----------



## Chaparral

Only 1 in 10 affairs turn into a serious relationship. Only 1 in10 of those turn into a long term marriage. If anyone knows cheaters cheat it is a cheater. This agrees with the stat that 97% of the marriages of two cheaters fails.

OTOH 80% of the couples that divorce because of an affair regret that decision.

Unfortunately, approx. 70% of women and 74% of men admit they would cheat if they knew they would not get caught. So forgiveness may be the best, logical, option.


----------



## Chaparral

joe kidd said:


> IMO the OM made it Shams business the minute he decided to pursue a relationship with Shams wife. If he didn't want Sham in his affairs then he should have stayed out of Shams.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Never let a cheater off the hook. If you do you have only rewarded evil.


----------



## Shamwow

New text from her this morning: "Doesn't change anything, but nothing ever ended up happening. All a bad fantasy. Sorry you had to see all that. Gross."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Followed shortly after by: "I'll get a lawyer as soon as I can afford it."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

You can always tell when a cheater is lying; their lips move.

Be strong.

Cypress


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> New text from her this morning: "Doesn't change anything, but nothing ever ended up happening. All a bad fantasy. Sorry you had to see all that. Gross."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh dude, I hope you get those test results back from those panties soon. I would love for you to send a text back, " If nothing happened then why do I have a report from a lab in my hands that say there's semen, that isn't mine, from a pair of your panties from your trip that I send off for analysis?"


----------



## WhereAmI

Shamwow said:


> Followed shortly after by: "I'll get a lawyer as soon as I can afford it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm assuming you're recognizing this as manipulation. When her cold-hearted comment didn't work, she tried planting seeds of doubt. She has more tricks in her bag, I promise you. Keep up with NC. You're really getting to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

WhereAmI said:


> I'm assuming you're recognizing this as manipulation. When her cold-hearted comment didn't work, she tried planting seeds of doubt. She has more tricks in her bag, I promise you. Keep up with NC. You're really getting to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She probably expected you to cave and just wants to make sure she's in your thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

The lawyer comment is her trying to reclaim the control here. She is essentially saying things will happen on HER schedule when she has the resources to do it. 

She doesn't realize divorce and filing papers happens regardless of her choosing to participate. 

Those panties sure will prove a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

I forgot all about the panties, man those are going to come in handy after all.

I'm thinking this women is a hard shell to crack?

We can only guess how she explains the semin in the panties.


Stay stong S- the nail in her coffin will soon be here.

I know you don't see the same women you married, but do you see your wife ever coming clean for the sake of the marriage? For that matter ever coming clean period? I hear it happens, they go do there grave, alone, growing old in a house ful of cats and cat boo.


----------



## calif_hope

Shaggy said:


> The lawyer comment is her trying to reclaim the control here. She is essentially saying things will happen on HER schedule when she has the resources to do it.
> 
> She doesn't realize divorce and filing papers happens regardless of her choosing to participate.
> 
> Those panties sure will prove a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree 100%
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

thecw said:


> Yes.
> 
> I wonder if there is any statistical data of how often a man leaves his wife for his married mistress. I would double down on it being a very low percentage of the time. Men know that, while its fun to have a good time with a married cheater, they will be next in line to get cheated on and can't trust this woman for more than anything than a good lay.


Stats show that only 14- 17% of relationships that start out as affairs actually make it in the long term. So, I believe that Sham should inform the OMW. She has a right to know what's going on in their marriage. And it is Sham's business when this OM came into their marriage. No secret that he knew she was married, and yet he made it his is business to sleep with her and cheat on his own marriage. If someone had information that your husband or wife was cheating on you, wouldn't you want that information? 

Of course, I digress..This is about Sham and I'm here to support his decisions.


----------



## southernmagnolia

chapparal said:


> Only 1 in 10 affairs turn into a serious relationship. Only 1 in10 of those turn into a long term marriage. If anyone knows cheaters cheat it is a cheater. This agrees with the stat that 97% of the marriages of two cheaters fails.
> 
> OTOH 80% of the couples that divorce because of an affair regret that decision.
> 
> Unfortunately, approx. 70% of women and 74% of men admit they would cheat if they knew they would not get caught. So forgiveness may be the best, logical, option.


What study do those stats come from?


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> New text from her this morning: "Doesn't change anything, but nothing ever ended up happening. All a bad fantasy. Sorry you had to see all that. Gross."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wonder why it took her so long to reply with this? She had to read through them all to make sure that none of them proved that she actually had sex with him. Would have maybe given a little more credit to that story if she replied back with that before she had time to read them all.


----------



## Jellybeans

I don't necessarily believe those stats. I mean, any relationship that starts as an affair is not built on a good foundation but many of them (strangely) do survive and turn into marriages.

Not everyone who divorces as a result of an affair regrets it. 80% is pretty high. I think you'd find a lot of people saying that they are happier post-divorce and go onto have good relationships.


----------



## crossbar

Halien said:


> Wonder why it took her so long to reply with this? She had to read through them all to make sure that none of them proved that she actually had sex with him. Would have maybe given a little more credit to that story if she replied back with that before she had time to read them all.


Remember, he was able to view her phone texts and it said that she and the OM texted about 50,000 times. Probably them going through the texts and seeing if there was anything indicating that they did have sex. Probably didn't find anything concrete. Thus, the text this morniing stating that nothing happened. That's probably the story OM would tell his wife too. Sorry, I had innappropriate texting with someone, but it was never physical!!!

Your "ace in the hole" is she doesn't realize that you got a pair of panties from her trip. Not to sound bad about your situation, but I hope they come back positive so you can expose the lie. 

If they come back negative, then I'll be shocked....but, you'll have to get back in that house and retrieve that VAR.


----------



## the guy

H- very good point.
Why else for the delay?
Sham, with all things considered would it take this long to go through the evidence? If I remember correctly it took awhile to go through it on your end?


----------



## kenmoore14217

Remember, the undies will tell the story


----------



## seeking sanity

The panties may tell the story. Talking to OMW would give more info. Most guys cave and confess and she may be willing to share some details.


----------



## Jellybeans

What is the story on the panties??? LOL


----------



## Joanie

Even if the panties come back as "proof positive" she may still deny. At this point, I wonder, why does it matter? She has shown enough through her actions that she doesn't vow the marriage the way Sham Wow did. I really don't understand the need for more proof? It doesn't really matter any more in the legal system if there is adultery. I'd say move on, rebuild your life and stop asking questions. You already have the answers.
Move on....she is who she is........and honestly, I don't think she will ever really fess up the truth nor will she ever really feel all that bad. I seriously doubt she will go to her grave feeling badly about this. I've seen people like her in my life and they rarely feel badly for anyone but themselves.


----------



## Entropy3000

thecw said:


> Yes, she MIGHT be. However don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong. When she entered holy matrimony with OM she also assumed responsibility of watching the barometer of her marriage. She undoubtedly already senses OM's game. If OMW was a relative of mine I would tell her. If she isn't blood to me, I advocate let things take their natural course and don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
> 
> For all we know, they have an open marriage. She cheats too, etc. Point is, none of Sham's business.


I think sticking his nose in hear is in no comparison to the OM sticking his **** into places it does not belong.

Not sure why folks want to be so easy going about men who have a affairs with their wives. In no way does it take focus or responsibility off of the WS. I will repeat for emphasis that the BS has every right to do wahtever they see fit to upset the lives of those involved in the affair. There is no PC rule book for treating the offending parties in a nice way. It is not the OMW fault that he had the affair. 

I say tell the OMW.


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> Cw's point matters not.
> Would you take her back knowing you were her least attractive choice? Do you want her back just because the OM won't leave his wife?
> 
> Tell the OMW, it's the best choice.
> 
> WTF with 36 year old women can't find true love?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

joe kidd said:


> IMO the OM made it Shams business the minute he decided to pursue a relationship with Shams wife. If he didn't want Sham in his affairs then he should have stayed out of Shams.


Yup.


----------



## crossbar

Joanie said:


> Even if the panties come back as "proof positive" she may still deny. At this point, I wonder, why does it matter? She has shown enough through her actions that she doesn't vow the marriage the way Sham Wow did. I really don't understand the need for more proof? It doesn't really matter any more in the legal system if there is adultery. I'd say move on, rebuild your life and stop asking questions. You already have the answers.
> Move on....she is who she is........and honestly, I don't think she will ever really fess up the truth nor will she ever really feel all that bad. I seriously doubt she will go to her grave feeling badly about this. I've seen people like her in my life and they rarely feel badly for anyone but themselves.


The reason the panties are important is because it validates Shamwow's claims that she was, in fact, having an affair. Cheaters are incredibly good liars. Hell, she turned on the waterworks, denied the affair and got Shamwow back into the fold. It wasn't until Sham did some more digging that he discovered page after page of texts that were sexual in nature that he recommitted himself to leave. Now, he gets a text from her stating that nothing happened and it was a stupid fantasy. A positive test result would only confirm she was lying again and he will not be pulled back into doubting himself. He can move on.


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> Only 1 in 10 affairs turn into a serious relationship. Only 1 in10 of those turn into a long term marriage. If anyone knows cheaters cheat it is a cheater. This agrees with the stat that 97% of the marriages of two cheaters fails.
> 
> *OTOH 80% of the couples that divorce because of an affair regret that decision.*
> 
> Unfortunately, approx. 70% of women and 74% of men admit they would cheat if they knew they would not get caught. So forgiveness may be the best, logical, option.


Where would that number come from. That is insane. In any big decision in life we always have some second thoughts and or regrets. That is natural.

You are saying the 80% of people who have been cheated on regret terminating that relationship. I throw the challenge flag.


----------



## ManDup

Halien said:


> Wonder why it took her so long to reply with this? She had to read through them all to make sure that none of them proved that she actually had sex with him. Would have maybe given a little more credit to that story if she replied back with that before she had time to read them all.


Likely just thought of it after talking to OM. There's only one marriage to save now; his. Maybe he wants her to keep quiet and gaslight Sham about it too.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> New text from her this morning: "Doesn't change anything, but nothing ever ended up happening. All a bad fantasy. Sorry you had to see all that. Gross."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Read: I miss having a car and I had to tell my parents a story and I am going with this. I am trying to make you feel bad. I would really like to continue to abuse you.

Also notice, no regret that she did these things. She is sorry you caught her.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Followed shortly after by: "I'll get a lawyer as soon as I can afford it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Read: I am the one with the power in the relationship, not you. I have gotten with a financial adviosr and will have the money shortly.


----------



## Kickemwhentheirup

Shamwow said:


> New text from her this morning: "Doesn't change anything, but nothing ever ended up happening. All a bad fantasy. Sorry you had to see all that. Gross."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nobody here is buying this unmitigated nonsense. I think some of your texts clearly reflected PAST acts.
People fantasizing probably don't usually do so in the past tense. To some this might look like an apology, but she is not saying sorry she did it, just sorry you saw it. Doesn't change anything means she is going to stick to the denial. There is no sense in admittimg now that the D train has left the station. If she had remorse, at this p point she would offer to trade the truth for a chance at R. My ww claimed it was a fantasy but the texts don't lie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

J-
The panty thing came up when Sham's W cam back from Vegas, he found them in the hamper or in her suit case, that night and they were "full" with "stuff" .

He sent them in to a lab to test for semen.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> Oh dude, I hope you get those test results back from those panties soon. I would love for you to send a text back, " If nothing happened then why do I have a report from a lab in my hands that say there's semen, that isn't mine, from a pair of your panties from your trip that I send off for analysis?"


She will say that those were not her panties. She loaned them to a friend .... or some equally crazy thing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Wonder why it took her so long to reply with this? She had to read through them all to make sure that none of them proved that she actually had sex with him. Would have maybe given a little more credit to that story if she replied back with that before she had time to read them all.


Yup


----------



## Entropy3000

Joanie said:


> Even if the panties come back as "proof positive" she may still deny. At this point, I wonder, why does it matter? She has shown enough through her actions that she doesn't vow the marriage the way Sham Wow did. I really don't understand the need for more proof? It doesn't really matter any more in the legal system if there is adultery. I'd say move on, rebuild your life and stop asking questions. You already have the answers.
> Move on....she is who she is........and honestly, I don't think she will ever really fess up the truth nor will she ever really feel all that bad. I seriously doubt she will go to her grave feeling badly about this. I've seen people like her in my life and they rarely feel badly for anyone but themselves.


:iagree:

The panties do not matter really. Sure if they come back positive that helps validate but a negative does not validate her story.

Again she was being unfaithful by going to Vegas with this guy against your wishes. That alone is enough. Even without these texts.

For some men pulling their wife off of another man while she is riding him is not enough proof.


----------



## Chaparral

I think the 1 in 10 etc. came from series called "Unfaithful" OWN channel. Also the 80-% number. If you google 68 % of women you can find that one.



The 97% I got off TAM but it is virtually the same . There are several sites that have adultery/cheating stats.


----------



## Gabriel

Halien said:


> Wonder why it took her so long to reply with this? She had to read through them all to make sure that none of them proved that she actually had sex with him. Would have maybe given a little more credit to that story if she replied back with that before she had time to read them all.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This!

And please, Sham. Even if the panties come back negative, don't give in. Stay strong no matter what here. Even if it was a bad fantasy (which I doubt), she has no respect for you whatsoever.

She is trying to save face with the "sorry you had to see all of that. Gross." comment. Trying to bend you.


----------



## Chaparral

crossbar said:


> The reason the panties are important is because it validates Shamwow's claims that she was, in fact, having an affair. Cheaters are incredibly good liars. Hell, she turned on the waterworks, denied the affair and got Shamwow back into the fold. It wasn't until Sham did some more digging that he discovered page after page of texts that were sexual in nature that he recommitted himself to leave. Now, he gets a text from her stating that nothing happened and it was a stupid fantasy. A positive test result would only confirm she was lying again and he will not be pulled back into doubting himself. He can move on.


If I followed this correctly, Sham did not give her all the texts he has but she may not know that. I also think she just thinks he cracked her skype acct. which is not the case. He cracked her texts up until two weeks ago. She may have figured this out by going through her own stuff. But it doesn't sound like it.

I think she and OM did not plan to get together or what would be the point of getting a new, local, job that she did not have to travel. Of course it could have just been a false gesture to make herself look like she was trying.

I sure would like to know what kind of business she was in. Just curious.:scratchhead:


----------



## Chaparral

Entropy3000 said:


> Where would that number come from. That is insane. In any big decision in life we always have some second thoughts and or regrets. That is natural.
> 
> You are saying the 80% of people who have been cheated on regret terminating that relationship. I throw the challenge flag.


I saw it on tv, here is another source. Of course you can pretty much do any thing you want with statistics. Just look at politicians for example. Could be bad stats but I'm not sure how anyone would benefit in this situation. Could be poor statistitions also.


Some Statistics regarding Marriage and Divorce Facts

* If the group of persons who marry partners after an affair is considered, more than 75 percent finally end in divorce
* Amongst those who get divorced during an affair, 80 percent regret their decision of divorce
* More than 50 percent are currently involved in an affair, and 25 percent of these mention that the affair is the reason for the divorce
* In case of marriages that have had a long duration, more than 90 percent of divorces comprise of infidelity at some point in the married life
* As compared to divorced men, divorced women have more problems in beginning new relationships
* After a divorce has been granted, 33 percent men and 50 percent women continue to be angry over this incident for 10 years
* Somebody gets divorced in the United States every 10 to 13 seconds
* About 60 percent of married women and 70 percent of married men are involved in affairs. This implies out of 3 marriages, 2 marriages involve affairs 

General Marriage and Divorce Facts

* A majority of divorced men and divorced women remarry. However, the rate of failure of second marriages is more than first marriages. As compared to individuals in first marriages, remarried people experience a greater decline in marital quality

* 10 years after a divorce, one of the spouse in 66 percent of former couples experiences unhappiness, anxiety, depression and eventually mental instability

* In case of 25 percent of former couples, both spouses suffer from loneliness and depression

* 10 years after a divorce, both spouses of just 10 percent of the former couples, reconstruct fuller and happier lives

* Those people who are Catholics or members of conservative religious affiliations (like conservative sectarian faiths, conservative Protestants) report decreased average probability of marital infidelity when compared to peers that do not have any religious affiliation

* Those married couples who remained present for religious services exhibited less possibility of being unfaithful towards one another as compared to peers who had less frequent attendance for religious services

* If young adults from 18 to 30 are considered, women support cohabitation, premarital sex and the breadwinner-housewife model to a lesser degree than men. These women support marriage more than men do

* Young adults of highly educated mothers support cohabitation and premarital sex more than peers of less educated mothers

* If all individuals aged 31 are taken into account, these are of the opinion that the importance of religion and religious attendance were not significantly linked with their divorce views

* 66 percent adult children of divorced parents take a decision to not have children. These specifically cite divorce as the major reason for this decision

* Children of divorced parents say from experience that "The day my parents got divorced is the day my childhood ended"

* For girls in families with divorced parents, sex at an early age is very common

* In psychiatric hospitals, 80 percent of adolescents belong to broken homes 


Marriage and Divorce Facts, Facts of Marriage and Divorce


----------



## Stonewall

Entropy3000 said:


> She will say that those were not her panties. She loaned them to a friend .... or some equally crazy thing.



yep but the neet thing about dna is they can profile her dna from those panties making it pretty undeniable in a court case.


----------



## thecw

Stonewall said:


> yep but the neet thing about dna is they can profile her dna from those panties making it pretty undeniable in a court case.


I'm no lawyer, but so many high-profile cases have not stood any ground based on improper handling of DNA evidence. I think the only thing that will come (no pun intended) of this is confirmation for Sham's sake.


----------



## Shamwow

The texts proved enough for me to leave. Even if they never got around to physically consummating it, in my mind it's almost worse. Because it was frequent, planned "dates" (video chat, etc) over time which created an emotional attachment. A really drunken lay would be horrible, but wouldn't have been emotional at least. She allowed the life in our marriage to be transferred to another man.

Sure, would be harder evidence if the panties come back positive, but I'm not looking to that to decide what I need to do. I already did what I needed to do based on what I already have.

Agree that the texts are not an apology at all...she said the word "sorry", but not followed by "...I did that. To you. To us.". Just sorry I had to see it. Having a rough day, but staying strong, no worries. Not like I have anything to go back to with her, so that makes it a lot easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Followed shortly after by: "I'll get a lawyer as soon as I can afford it."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you do proceed with divorce, you will have tactical advantage by moving quickly. She will not have financial resources to hire good lawyer. Don't let her set timetable of divorce (if divorce is what you want) based on her financial condition. 

File on her when you are ready to file. Keep control of the process.


----------



## F-102

While it is true that they may very well run to each others' arms, it is very true that most of these post-apocalyptic relationships don't last. I'm waiting for the day LeAnn Rimes/Eddie Cibrian implode, but there is also another possibility: no matter how bad your W may have it from here on in, no matter if the OM turns out to be an abusive jackass who uses her head for batting practice whenever he gets drunk, even if he dumps her in short order-do you think that she will admit remorse and regret?

NO!

Because she has to prove to everyone involved that she made the "right" decision, that the OM is the most wonderful man in the world that you could never have hoped to amount to even HALF of. She has to convince everyone that her new life is great, even if it is miserable.


----------



## Shamwow

Have not contacted OMW, still on the fence. Not feeling particularly decisive today (yet), but we'll see what happens. Perhaps I should read some texts again for a reminder...not being masochistic, but helped yesterday morning to read some from the list I left her...put me in the right place when considering what I've chosen to do here.

Looking for an apt tomorrow, something month to month where I can have my dog with me. He'll make this a lot better...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

I agree with everyone else. Get a lawyer and process. You shouldn't have to "wait for her to get a lawyer". Not your fault that she spent her money on a sex vacation. Maybe the OM could lend her the money? But, if you contact the OMW, I think he'll have to worry about his own legal fee's.

She's still banking that you'll fold for her "whoa as me" crap and come running home.


----------



## F-102

And as far as those half-hearted texts, it sounds as if she is in a bit of a daze because, for the first time, she is not in control here. Especially the 2nd one, where she says when she can afford it. Remember, Sham, how she tried to guilt you into caving by saying that your lawyer will screw her over? It sounds like she is trying to guilt you again, playing the "Oh, poor, misunderstood me. My jerk-*ff STBXH took off and left me with nothing, and now I have no money and no car. Oh, boo-hoo!" card.


----------



## Shamwow

The fact that her parents know the truth...that will affect her more than anything I could ever say about this. She's very close with them, and their opinion means the world to her. Her dad is in the ministry. He's extremely humble and tolerant of errant ways in the world, and I'm sure he'll tell her they love her no matter what. And that will hurt her deep down more than anything, the guilt of having them know what she did and then forgiving her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

I will ask my attorney to file tomorrow, the timetable will be on my terms. And her statement is true, she'll get one when she can afford it. But she'll find a way to afford it when she HAS to, because the clock will be ticking. 

Hope that doesn't sound vindictive, but were im at I don't really feel like playing any games anymore. I threw down the gauntlet, the duel is on my terms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Sham you are probably right 

please remember they are her parents and blood ties between parents and children are hard to break, be prepare for them to take her side eventually


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> Sham you are probably right
> 
> please remember they are her parents and blood ties between parents and children are hard to break, be prepare for them to take her side eventually


True, doesn't matter to me. My point is *she'll* know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> The fact that her parents know the truth...that will affect her more than anything I could ever say about this. She's very close with them, and their opinion means the world to her. Her dad is in the ministry. He's extremely humble and tolerant of errant ways in the world, and I'm sure he'll tell her they love her no matter what. And that will hurt her deep down more than anything, the guilt of having them know what she did and then forgiving her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude, you probably know that she's already lied to them. That, yes, she did send some bad texts, and she sorry that, that ever happened but she never slept with the guy. Now, he's left me high and dry. Poor me."


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> True, doesn't matter to me. My point is *she'll* know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree 

Stay strong, hold tight, the roller coaster ride is rough


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> I will ask my attorney to file tomorrow, the timetable will be on my terms. And her statement is true, she'll get one when she can afford it. But she'll find a way to afford it when she HAS to, because the clock will be ticking.
> 
> Hope that doesn't sound vindictive, but were im at I don't really feel like playing any games anymore. I threw down the gauntlet, the duel is on my terms.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


doesn't sound vindictive just decisive!


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> I will ask my attorney to file tomorrow, the timetable will be on my terms. And her statement is true, she'll get one when she can afford it. But she'll find a way to afford it when she HAS to, because the clock will be ticking.
> 
> Hope that doesn't sound vindictive, but were im at I don't really feel like playing any games anymore. I threw down the gauntlet, the duel is on my terms.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Good. Stick to this at all costs. Even if she admits to everything and lies in a pool of her own tears. This woman can't be trusted, and you know it. No matter what.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> The fact that her parents know the truth...that will affect her more than anything I could ever say about this. She's very close with them, and their opinion means the world to her. *Her dad is in the ministry.* He's extremely humble and tolerant of errant ways in the world, and I'm sure he'll tell her they love her no matter what. And that will hurt her deep down more than anything, the guilt of having them know what she did and then forgiving her.



Daughter of a minister? Probably had a couple of decades of building up her immunity or defence to guilt.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Have not contacted OMW, still on the fence. Not feeling particularly decisive today (yet)



remember where you were a month ago, you saw your marriage suffering and had no idea why and tried your best to get it fixed to no avail

fortunately you are very tech savvy and were able to figure out what she was up to and you now know that nothing you would have done would have changed things

consider that the OMW is in the same precarious position that you were once in, thus she can't make a an informed decision without all of the facts

I know it sucks that you are put in the position to let her know
I know it will be a very hard thing to do, which is inform someone that their spouse is a liar and a cheat

But I really implore you to do this- she deserves the info and she deserves to make her own choice as to what to do with it


----------



## Entropy3000

Stonewall said:


> yep but the neet thing about dna is they can profile her dna from those panties making it pretty undeniable in a court case.


Yes I agree. I am just saying she will deny deny deny.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> The texts proved enough for me to leave. Even if they never got around to physically consummating it, in my mind it's almost worse. Because it was frequent, planned "dates" (video chat, etc) over time which created an emotional attachment. A really drunken lay would be horrible, but wouldn't have been emotional at least. She allowed the life in our marriage to be transferred to another man.
> 
> Sure, would be harder evidence if the panties come back positive, but I'm not looking to that to decide what I need to do. I already did what I needed to do based on what I already have.
> 
> Agree that the texts are not an apology at all...she said the word "sorry", but not followed by "...I did that. To you. To us.". Just sorry I had to see it. Having a rough day, but staying strong, no worries. Not like I have anything to go back to with her, so that makes it a lot easier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Eli-Zor

Do tell the OM's wife, she deserves to know the truth as well. Do so in a respectful way , use the word affair and let her know you have hard evidence. She can then decide her own course of action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aeg512

I am of the opinion that you should tell the OMW's for her benefit. Just think if she had located the inappropriate text 8 weeks ago and notified you. You would have kicked this in the bud much earlier and the outcome most likely would have been different. The idea that her and OM were sleeping in other beds may have just been a smoke screen so OM could get into your WW's pants without her thinking she was hurting his wife. Remember cheaters lie. If they were in fact were sleeping in seperate beds the odds are she has caught him cheating previously. She should have proof to kick his butt out.


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> If I followed this correctly, Sham did not give her all the texts he has but she may not know that. I also think she just thinks he cracked her skype acct. which is not the case. He cracked her texts up until two weeks ago. She may have figured this out by going through her own stuff.


Correct. I also see that hundreds of pics and videos were sent back and forth between them, and that much of the text alludes to not having consummated physically yet (as of about two weeks ago). Either way, I only gave her about 20 choice quotes from their texts (it took me almost 2 days to get through just the first log file, and I left out nearly endless shocking material that didn't "advance the story" on my list), and the rest tells a full story of their fall into being infatuated, then clearly were regularly (prob daily on the road?) video chatting and getting off to each other, watching the same porn clips and getting off together, then starting to regularly say they love each other, and constantly sending pics of themselves and making plans for meeting up on layovers and of course Vegas. They also argued, broke up and made up at least 2 times, then renewed plans for hooking up in the near future.

And I doubt she was able to check my list against her old texts, guarantee they'd been deleted from her phone regularly...unless she takes the time figure out how to find them on her backup drive as I did. She has more to worry about I presume. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Correct. I also see that hundreds of pics and videos were sent back and forth between them, and that much of the text alludes to not having consummated physically yet. Either way, I only gave her about 20 choice quotes from their texts (it took me almost 2 days to get through just the first log file, and I left out nearly endless shocking material that didn't "advance the story" on my list), and the rest tells a full story of their fall into being infatuated, then clearly were regularly (prob daily on the road) video chatting and getting off to each other, then atarting to regularly say the love each other, and constantly sending pics of themselves and making plans for meeting up on layovers and of course Vegas. They also argued, broke up and made up at least 2 times, then renewed plans for hooking up in the near future.
> And I doubt she was able to check my list against her old texts, guarantee they'd been deleted from her phone regularly...unless she takes the time figure out how to find them on her backup drive as I did. She has more to worry about I presume.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size





WOW

:scratchhead:


Now I understand your determination to see this trough 

Again Sham Hats off to you


----------



## Entropy3000

Getting off together over video feeds is beyond an EA for me. 

Cyber Sex. Just short of live penetration. It is a brave new world.


----------



## piqued

If they've already "broken up" twice then this guy isn't about to leave his wife for her. I'm more certain now that the OMW doesn't know, and that she really should (just like Sham).

Sham, I can't believe that that was the best apology she could come up with: "I'm sorry you had to see that". You are so right, where is the "I'm sorry I did that to you, to us, to the marriage." No remorse, only feels bad she got caught.

And all I can say about her claiming they never did it is....perhaps she's trying to figure out a way to salvage herself out of this and, as we've seen, she's not above lying to do it.


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## Catherine602

Sham I am glad you are not letting vindictiveness rule what you do with respect to OMW. I feel when you come out of this mess, you have to be able to look at the man you are and know you adhered to your principals and standards of behavior. 

The knee jerk response is to wreck as much destruction in this OM life as possible. I dont think you will ever be able to make him reap what he is sowing by anything you do or don't do. That will come in due time. You might let your decision rest upon what you want as an outcome. Will it bring your wife back to you whole again? 

If it did do you want her back? Do you think you have a duty to the wife to let her know what she is dealing with given that her husband is running a similar game on her as your wife is running on you. Your motives then would be to help a fellow sufferer. 

If your motives are unclear or part of a scorched earth approach, then leave it to fate. If you do decide to tell her, be prepared to be contacted by her and being drawn into her drama and pain. She may contact you with the latest updates on her husbands activities and ask you about your wife. Could you handle her pain and distress along with your own. 

It is good to think and delay. Once it is done it can not be undone so what's the rush?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrQuatto

piqued said:


> If they've already "broken up" twice then this guy isn't about to leave his wife for her. I'm more certain now that the OMW doesn't know, and that she really should (just like Sham).
> 
> Sham, I can't believe that that was the best apology she could come up with: "I'm sorry you had to see that". You are so right, where is the "I'm sorry I did that to you, to us, to the marriage." No remorse, only feels bad she got caught.
> 
> And all I can say about her claiming they never did it is....perhaps she's trying to figure out a way to salvage herself out of this and, as we've seen, she's not above lying to do it.


Well, keep in mind that she may still be very deep in the fog and is not even starting to consider she did any wrong. She hasn't had the chance to vilify Sham to anyone of consequence, or manipulate the blame to him yet so she may be just in straight denial... still thinking she can gloss this over once sham is over his little tantrum. I would not be suprised to see a whining, crying, sobbing voice mail or text message come across in the future when the OM turns her out and reality slaps her in the face in her now empting home and bank account.

Q~


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## aug

Her financial position should recover quickly. She has cheques coming in from her recent gig(s). Enough to cover her debts and her lawyer.

She can also borrow from her parents and others.

I dont think she's that broken up about the marriage. She had somewhat checked out already.


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## Shamwow

aug said:


> Her financial position should recover quickly. She has cheques coming in from her recent gig(s). Enough to cover her debts and her lawyer.
> 
> She can also borrow from her parents and others.
> 
> I dont think she's that broken up about the marriage. She had somewhat checked out already.


Agreed. She'll be fine. Prob a few rough weeks ahead (and many many many months of paying off her credit cards). And buying a car.

Also agree she is not really broken up about the marriage. Have to say that's what I expected after the last few weeks and months. Bummer. Remember when I meant everything to her, now I'm just in the way.

Well, I was. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

MrQuatto said:


> I would not be suprised to see a whining, crying, sobbing voice mail or text message come across in the future when the OM turns her out and reality slaps her in the face in her now empting home and bank account.
> 
> Q~


I would be quite surprised to see anything like this from her. Maybe in 5 years when her next marriage falls apart and she finally goes to therapy to figure out what's wrong with her relationships. She's always had an uncanny ability to be purposely cold to people that fall out of her favor. I always saw it from her side. Clearly I now see what it feels like to have her turn that cannon on me. But she's seeing a side of me she never thought was there, and I'm glad to provide her a worthy adversary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

Well, Catherine is right. If you're going to contact OMW because of being vindictive. Then no, don't do it. But, if you tell her to let her know what's going on in her marriage she she has that right to decide what she wants to do with her life, then go for it. Her marriage is a lie and she doesn't even realize it. I think she has a right to know....but going with my orginal statement, don't do it if malice is involved. 

Chances are the OM will throw your WW under the bus. But, if there are no repercussion to his actions, he'll do it again to someone else. He'll be involved in the destruction of someone else's marriage.


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## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> I would be quite surprised to see anything like this from her. Maybe in 5 years when her next marriage falls apart and she finally goes to therapy to figure out what's wrong with her relationships. She's always had an uncanny ability to be purposely cold to people that fall out of her favor. I always saw it from her side. Clearly I now see what it feels like to have her turn that cannon on me. But she's seeing a side of me she never thought was there, and I'm glad to provide her a worthy adversary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She may give you the entire "cold" treatment but then the stakes are much higher now. I remember her calling the OM a loser. That really came across harsher than necessary for someone she secretly cared about. 

The thing about your situation is things keep going off on completely unexpected tangents. 

If they've "broken up twice" I agree she can't depend on OM to do anything but cover his a$$.

Good luck hunting for apt and getting dog back. Dogs always got you back.:smthumbup:


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## Chaparral

crossbar said:


> Well, Catherine is right. If you're going to contact OMW because of being vindictive. Then no, don't do it. But, if you tell her to let her know what's going on in her marriage she she has that right to decide what she wants to do with her life, then go for it. Her marriage is a lie and she doesn't even realize it. I think she has a right to know....but going with my orginal statement, don't do it if malice is involved.
> 
> Chances are the OM will throw your WW under the bus. But, if there are no repercussion to his actions, he'll do it again to someone else. He'll be involved in the destruction of someone else's marriage.


Basically I agree. 

But I do not philosophically understand the reason for not being vindictive. It seems to me a matter of justice. The only difference in what OM did and someone that comes into your house and steals everything in it is that what OM did is a thousand times worse. Not doing anything is tantamount to rewarding bad behavior and just encouraging more of the same.


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## Entropy3000

I would not advise Sham to be vindicative. Or anyone else for that matter. I would however defend their right be so.

Me. I would go biblical. Seriously. In a very cold behold a pale horse way. I think being PC has gone too far when we have to treat these predators well. I feel no more empathy for an OM ( like this one ), than I do a pusher at the school down the street. If a pusher sold my kid something that ruined their life, I would put the blame on my kid and myself. BUT I would not let the pusher go free. I would feel obligated to make sure they did not do this again. At the very least these type need to realize a cost for their actions. 

I know these days we are not supposed to hold anyone accountable for anything. But I disagree with this attitude.

In this case I would tell the OMW because it is the right thing to do. That is how I try to live. She needs to know. If I was trying to break up the affair and reconsile, I would tell her because it was the right thing to do AND to help end the affair.

I think the vindictiveness ( justice ) is handled in other ways. That can wait until Sham gets back on his feet. When he is in a better frame of mind.


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## aug

chapparal said:


> Not doing anything is tantamount to rewarding bad behavior and just encouraging more of the same.



I agree. The OM made a conscious deliberate decision and didnt care what will happen to your marriage and his family.


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## bryanp

It is absolutely irrelevant whether you tell the OM's wife out of vindictiveness or a way to help her. IT IS IRRELEVANT. The betrayed spouse always has a right to know in order to protect themselves (Std's, financially, emotionally etc) now and in the future. By not telling the OM's wife you are in effect part of the cover-up. The reasons why you tell are not important because it is simply the right thing to do. Every spouse has a right to know what is going on in their marriage. One should have too much information rather than too little. Do the right thing and tell her.


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## Entropy3000

bryanp said:


> It is absolutely irrelevant whether you tell the OM's wife out of vindictiveness or a way to help her. IT IS IRRELEVANT. The betrayed spouse always has a right to know in order to protect themselves (Std's, financially, emotionally etc) now and in the future. By not telling the OM's wife you are in effect part of the cover-up. The reasons why you tell are not important because it is simply the *right thing to do.* Every spouse has a right to know what is going on in their marriage. One should have too much information rather than too little. Do the right thing and tell her.


:iagree:


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## SadSamIAm

I agree totally. 

The only correct thing to do is tell the OM's wife. People only live once and it isn't fair that she is living a lie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

bryanp said:


> It is absolutely irrelevant whether you tell the OM's wife out of vindictiveness or a way to help her. IT IS IRRELEVANT. The betrayed spouse always has a right to know in order to protect themselves (Std's, financially, emotionally etc) now and in the future. By not telling the OM's wife you are in effect part of the cover-up. The reasons why you tell are not important because it is simply the right thing to do. Every spouse has a right to know what is going on in their marriage. One should have too much information rather than too little. Do the right thing and tell her.



yup, this.


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## Shaggy

It honestly doesn't matter what motivation sham has for telling the OMW. The bottom line is they have a right to know, and the OM must ave consequences for his part in the ending of Shams marriage. If not for this man and his involvement Sham would still be married.

Sham would have no problem pointing out to the cops a thief who broke into his house and robbed him. We would not question his motives at all. So why should he hesitate or be questioned on calling the OMW and reporting the thief who broke into Shams marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

I dont challenge the concept that OMW has a right to know what she is dealing with, if I were in her shoes I would like to be told. I am challenging the thoughtlessness that seems to go along with the rush to tell the OMW. It is really places a burden on Sham and extra stress. Let the dust settle get his stuff lined up without additional must do's. 

The difference between vindictiveness and justice is that the latter is carefully considered and acted upon in a measured way. The former is thoughtless acts of indescriminant injury to others like a wounded animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> I dont challenge the concept that OMW has a right to know what she is dealing with, if I were in her shoes I would like to be told. I am challenging the thoughtlessness that seems to go along with the rush to tell the OMW. It is really places a burden on Sham and extra stress. Let the dust settle get his stuff lined up without additional must do's.
> 
> The difference between vindictiveness and justice is that the latter is carefully considered and acted upon in a measured way. The former is thoughtless acts of indescriminant injury to others like a wounded animal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hence why I suggest he seek his justice after he has had time to get his feet under him.

But telling the OMW sooner than later is what I would suggest. I think if he waits he does her an injustice. Then it feels more like vindictiveness / vengance.

Anyway, I do think the important thing is for him to take care of business with his wife. Get himself back on track. Then deal with the OM.

So it seems that telling the OMW is a popular thing to do, but a matter of the timing.


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## Shamwow

Well, she has started to reach out to friends to feel them out as to who knows what, who her friends are, and push her side of the story.

Just got a call from my buddy (the one that I first confided in two weeks ago), to say she had just texted him. Get this.

Her: "Is he okay?"

(pause)

Her: "He shouldn't have looked at those."

My friend texts back (I had previously asked him to stay neutral if/when she contacted him): "Always loved you guys, sorry to hear about this".

Her: "He shouldn't have looked at that s**t. I mean, how are you supposed to recover from that?"

(pause)

My friend: "Sham told me some of what you guys are dealing with. Sorry."



So...she is seriously not accepting any responsibility for this. Instead of "He shouldn't have looked at those", how about, ummmm..."I shouldn't have done that"?

Not owning a shred of the situation. Previously unbelievable, unfortunately, now par for the course. I hope some of my other friends show me the same courtesy of letting me know what's being said. But I won't be calling them to find out, certainly don't want to put out a vibe of giving a s**t. But I'll take the info if it comes.


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## Mike11

This woman has some serious problems understanding boundaries


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## crossbar

Uh oh! Sounds like she's starting to go into panic mode! Looks like Shamwow isn't going to "stop being silly and come crawling back to me." Asking how is he supposed to recover from that and come back to being my clueless cuckold!


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## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> Uh oh! Sounds like she's starting to go into panic mode! Looks like Shamwow isn't going to "stop being silly and come crawling back to me." Asking how is he supposed to recover from that and come back to being my clueless cuckold!


I took it as she was asking how is SHE supposed to recover from that (that being my "invasion of her privacy"). Piece of work.


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## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Well, she has started to reach out to friends to feel them out as to who knows what, who her friends are, and push her side of the story.
> 
> Just got a call from my buddy (the one that I first confided in two weeks ago), to say she had just texted him. Get this.
> 
> Her: "Is he okay?"
> 
> (pause)
> 
> Her: "He shouldn't have looked at those."
> 
> My friend texts back (I had previously asked him to stay neutral if/when she contacted him): "Always loved you guys, sorry to hear about this".
> 
> Her: "He shouldn't have looked at that s**t. I mean, how are you supposed to recover from that?"
> 
> (pause)
> 
> My friend: "Sham told me some of what you guys are dealing with. Sorry."
> 
> 
> 
> So...she is seriously not accepting any responsibility for this. Instead of "He shouldn't have looked at those", how about, ummmm..."I shouldn't have done that"?
> 
> Not owning a shred of the situation. Previously unbelievable, unfortunately, now par for the course. I hope some of my other friends show me the same courtesy of letting me know what's being said. But I won't be calling them to find out, certainly don't want to put out a vibe of giving a s**t. But I'll take the info if it comes.


Yeah, there are others that will argue that what she was texting was somehow private. LOL. Again her issue was that you caught her and not that she did anything wrong. She is trying to charactreize it as sexting, but as a harmless fantasy. Which of course is absurd. She is playing hardball here. She is coming off as a real control freak really. This is Gaslighting at its best.

I think we will see more of this attitude from others in the future as an adaptation to the internet / texting explosion. Folks trying to claim that cyber sex and sexting are ok within a marriage even though they involve a thrid party. Because it is somehow private. I don't buy it but you see it here and there on this forum now. Folks arguing that their email, facebook and texting / sexting are not the spouses business. They put it under the category of flirting. 

Just an observation. Total [email protected] of course.


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## DanG

" I mean, how are you supposed to recover from that?"

Sham - I believe you made a reference to her father being in the ministry and understanding (teaching) of human fallibility. I'll submit that is a large part of her experiential understanding of life - recovery and forgiveness are always possible - probably without much (past) effort in her upbringing other than a "I'm sorry." Obvious to her in this situation is that recovery from the hard reality of the documented Skype behaviors is, even for her, beyond that. Be careful though, the play is a heartstring tug: "I'm helpless."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

"So...she is seriously not accepting any responsibility for this. Instead of "He shouldn't have looked at those", how about, ummmm..."I shouldn't have done that"?"

She's dealing with shock. No telling where this will lead. I'm not surprised at all that she's in denial. Its just a matter of time. At the moment I don't doubt she's lost and started to flail about. It is all very sad.


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## Mike11

If these are her exact words then I am tending to think that Crossbars observation is about right 

Looks like she is trying to damage control the situation with your friends


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## seeking sanity

Sham - Probably doesn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway: Her behaviour isn't a reflection on you. And her, seeming, lack of remorse isn't because you don't mean anything, you weren't good enough, or are not worthwhile. Some people cannot accept responsibly for their actions. They have to make someone else wrong, or it opens up a can of worms so big they cannot emotionally deal with. 

Pity is probably the most appropriate emotion if you can get there.


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## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Yeah, there are others that will argue that what she was texting was somehow private. LOL. Again her issue was that you caught her and not that she did anything wrong. She is trying to charactreize it as sexting, but as a harmless fantasy. Which of course is absurd. She is playing hardball here. She is coming off as a real control freak really. This is Gaslighting at its best.


Totally...it's like she read a book called "Effing Up Your Marriage, Losing Your Self-Respect, and Proven Gaslighting Techniques To Keep Your Man Guessing" while on that 10-wk trip.


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## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Totally...it's like she read a book called "Effing Up Your Marriage, Losing Your Self-Respect, and Proven Gaslighting Techniques To Keep Your Man Guessing" while on that 10-wk trip.


If it were me - although i've gone dark - I'd have to resist the temptation to send her a text along these lines - a "zinger" if you would like ..... 

WTF! You reading a book called (see your quote above) while u were gone? 

Just me, but holy cow, she is in it DEEP! I almost wonder if there is some narcisistic personality disorder going on here.....


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## Shamwow

seeking sanity said:


> Sham - Probably doesn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway: Her behaviour isn't a reflection on you. And her, seeming, lack of remorse isn't because you don't mean anything, you weren't good enough, or are not worthwhile. Some people cannot accept responsibly for their actions. They have to make someone else wrong, or it opens up a can of worms so big they cannot emotionally deal with.
> 
> Pity is probably the most appropriate emotion if you can get there.


As far as pitying her goes, I'm getting there, trust me. Yes, these communications today (one-way, I've not sent her one iota of a message since I walked out the back door on Friday) seem to have affected me a bit...but mainly because I've been awaiting her response at some point, and the concept of going dark has been really hard for me, out of my normal character. It's getting easier. What's so crazy is that she's being so predictable right now. I just played the hardest play in the book, and she seriously is still blaming me for "snooping" instead of owning up to what she did? Curious to see how she's responding after no contact for a week.


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> If it were me - although i've gone dark - I'd have to resist the temptation to send her a text along these lines - a "zinger" if you would like .....
> 
> WTF! You reading a book called (see your quote above) while u were gone?
> 
> Just me, but holy cow, she is in it DEEP! I almost wonder if there is some narcisistic personality disorder going on here.....


Ha! Not a bad idea...I'll wait a few weeks on that one if things persist. But I have to admit...I'm really curious to see what's on that office VAR at home when I go back to get my stuff. She must be spinning some serious yarns.


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## Shaggy

Are you gonna drop a new VAR when you get the first one?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

DanG said:


> " I mean, how are you supposed to recover from that?"
> 
> Sham - I believe you made a reference to her father being in the ministry and understanding (teaching) of human fallibility. I'll submit that is a large part of her experiential understanding of life - recovery and forgiveness are always possible - probably without much (past) effort in her upbringing other than a "I'm sorry." Obvious to her in this situation is that recovery from the hard reality of the documented Skype behaviors is, even for her, beyond that. Be careful though, the play is a heartstring tug: "I'm helpless."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point. Yes, her folks have consistently and basically unconditionally forgiven her for many many "childhood indiscretions", mainly wild child kinda stuff, stealing, vandalism, crashing the family car while underage, moving out at 16 and dropping out, etc. (she subsequently finished high school and got a college degree and has been very successful on her own all along) That kinda stuff. The difference is that she just turned 37. Adult time. She's always been a free spirit, and they've always seen her for the best of what she can be (they are after all her parents, and loving, perhaps to a fault). And she has always been redeemable with them because she's truly been a great girl at the base of it all. However, she has just gone beyond the limits of her marriage now...and that will of course take its toll on her, but I'm sure her parents will support her no matter what. But the talk I had with her dad yesterday showed him apologetic and empathetic with me...knowing his daughter had behaved so poorly. And he didn't question it one bit coming from my mouth.

"I'm sorry" won't cut it with me in this situation though. Hell, it would be a good start in me letting her go, but at the moment, I see myself as starting to let her go weeks ago when she lied to me about something so substantial (Vegas), and indicating that she was okay with that.


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## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Are you gonna drop a new VAR when you get the first one?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YES. I have two.


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## aug

Shamwow said:


> YES. I have two.


I wonder how long the battery in the VAR last? Maybe sneak in when she's not home and replace them? :scratchhead:


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## DanG

Prediction: She IS going to try to work this around to obtain forgiveness - from as many people as possible. Severance from you is not what she REALLY wants. Forgiveness is what she knows. (Been there in my 1st marriage.) I doubt she has ever really experienced (much) sanction or consequence. Regardless of her chronological age, she REALLY has done and will continue to do what she knows. It is possible that your marriage had become boring BECAUSE it was repressing her nature. Or, she is going through a midlife crisis - missing the rush of the good old days. What is now happening is her creation of her past and her natural tendency is going to do what she knows - seek forgiveness. Unfortunately, she saw something in you early in your relationship that told her that she could continue to be less than responsible and be forgiven. Be careful, be wise!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jezza

I've been keeping up with this all the way through whilst staying on the sidelines.
What Sham is going through is very tough indeed and he has kept his integrity and left with his head held high. Its very sad when a marriage fails, for whatever reason.

Whilst I am not insinuating that Sham has been 'economical' with the truth, we must remember that we are only getting his side of the story.

There was a recent post on TAM from a husband complaining about his wife, the way she was treating him etc etc. Suddenly the wife pops up and gave her side...he was physically abusing her etc

I am NOT saying that Sham was being physically or mentally 'violent' to his wife.... All I am saying is that there are always two sides to a story.

I don't think any husband or wife has an affair just for the hell of it. If all is well in a marriage (including the sex side) people don't, generally, go over the side. I suspect that Mrs Sham did what she did because all was not well at home. 
Whilst that doesnt make it right, it does make it more understandable.

Whilst it is unlikely, it IS possible that 'all' Sham's wife ever had was 'sext' or cyber sex. THIS DOES NOT MAKE WHAT SHE DID ACCEPTABLE. But we have to atleast bear it in mind that perhaps she IS telling the truth when she said 'nothing ever happened anyway'.

Whilst all the evidence Sham has is compelling, it IS circumstantial. All the panties could prove is that there is male semen on them. That does not prove she had sex with him. She COULD have given the OM her panties to ''have fun with'....Unlikely but a possibility.

Having cyber sex is not, legally speaking, adultery. But what it most certainly is is unreasonable behaviour. And this particular sort of unreasonable behaviour is very firm ground for justified divorce.

Sham...you felt betrayed and you had some very tough choices to make. You made the toughest choice - to walk away. Good luck and I hope you find what it is you are looking for in life.

And to Mrs Sham I say - what you did was wrong. However, I am also sure you had your reasons for doing it. Had you been honest when Sham asked you what you were up to then maybe you could have sorted things out and not be in this 'mess'. 
I also wish you luck in finding whatever it is you are really looking for in life...


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## MrK

Lying to your husband about a secret trip to Vegas to meet a man you have been having an secret emotional relationship with with the intent to have sex is a 100% adulterous affair. 

Jezza; Everyone has an affair for a reason. We all get that now. Implying she may be teling the truth about penetration is moot. The panties are moot. She is already just as guilty as if she were screwing him every Saturday night and every other Wednesday at lunch.


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## sixteen miles

Two very interesting new developments and information! First is the text to the friend; this is how I read it, and I maybe way off base; she first asks how Sham is doing then makes a very, very true statement; no husband should have had to see or go through such a horrible incident or see such utter horrible behavior from a spouse!

I took this only as she is concerned with Sham's well being and that no one should ever have to go through seeing that; meaning Sham! Wow! Could this be the first hint at concern or sorrow for the situation?? :scratchhead:

The second is the fact that her Father is in the ministry. Now I do not know what type of Clergy he is, but generally most all religions teach forgiveness as a central core of the entire scope of religion. If it is Jewish or Christian then that is going to be certainly a central part of how Mrs. Sham was raised. Some of what Sham has told is that she was ALWAYS forgiven by her parents when she was young for her past incidents and issues and that is now instilled into her; it is a part of her mind set. She flirts with troubles, gets into troubles and then expects people to forgive her. It is a pattern of her life, and in my opinion, she has some major issues to correct with her mental frame of mind. A moot point is as to how far the affair went, she is 100% plus, plus wrong, has no respect for her spouse, it is a adulterous affair without question. Once more she thinks that things can be swept under the rug, cry a bit and then all can go on, until the next affair or issues comes along. A very intense and difficult personality lies with this young woman.

On the other hand; only Sham can know in his heart the level of forgiveness left in his "forgiveness" tank.


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## Chaparral

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Two very interesting new developments and information! First is the text to the friend; this is how I read it, and I maybe way off base; she first asks how Sham is doing then makes a very, very true statement; no husband should have had to see or go through such a horrible incident or see such utter horrible behavior from a spouse!

I took this only as she is concerned with Sham's well being and that no one should ever have to go through seeing that; meaning Sham! Wow! Could this be the first hint at concern or sorrow for the situation?? "



I agree


Her: "He shouldn't have looked at that s**t. I mean, how are you supposed to recover from that?"

Shamwow is the subject in the first part of this sentence. There is no indication in this sentence that the subject has changed to herself. It has sunk in to her what she thinks he saw on skype since she doesn't know he did not see skype but cracked her texts. She's remembering her actions and how horrible it would look like to Sham. She is sorry, anyone would be.


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## RandomDude

Jebus, if I was you I can't wait to be rid of her, no accountability... AT ALL!!! And I wouldn't soften my heart for any reason, even if she feels the sorrow of hurting you... pffft! You know what she did, and it's all over, she messed up your life, mess up hers so she will learn some dignity. Don't give her anything.

I was a cheater myself, and I know what horrors I put upon my wife. Sorry is just not enough, I can express it a thousand times but it means nothing. Being accountable for my actions was the start sure, but it also came with a determination to never, ever, do such a thing again, and a determination to win back the trust that I have lost even if I know I wouldn't get it completely 100% back again.

Your wife doesn't even have ANY accountability at all. "He shouldn't have done that" "He shouldn't have done that"... WTF?!
She has messed up a vital ingredient of a marriage; trust. From looks of things she's not going to be willing to earn it back and be consistent with it. Let her go, and for you; find someone else with at least some shred of dignity and responsibility.

Truth be told, hate to admit it really but darn it, if I was you, I would be completely disgusted at my decision of marrying such a woman.


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## ManDup

crossbar said:


> The reason the panties are important is because it validates Shamwow's claims that she was, in fact, having an affair. Cheaters are incredibly good liars. Hell, she turned on the waterworks, denied the affair and got Shamwow back into the fold. It wasn't until Sham did some more digging that he discovered page after page of texts that were sexual in nature that he recommitted himself to leave. Now, he gets a text from her stating that nothing happened and it was a stupid fantasy. A positive test result would only confirm she was lying again and he will not be pulled back into doubting himself. He can move on.


"We went to a room together, but I couldn't go through with it. He already was worked up, so he asked if I had some spare panties he could masturbate into. Having led him on that far, I said OK."

Anything can be lied about.


----------



## WhereAmI

Her text to the friend was not to show concern, IMO. She's shown no real concern for Sham. She's on a PR campaign. She knows Sham has text proof, so she's trying to seem like a concerned wife. Her hope is that this will turn into his friend saying, "Man, it's was just texts and she feels bad. Let it go." 

Talking to Sham's friends = Damage Control
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

WhereAmI said:


> Her text to the friend was not to show concern, IMO. She's shown no real concern for Sham. She's on a PR campaign. She knows Sham has text proof, so she's trying to seem like a concerned wife. Her hope is that this will turn into his friend saying, "Man, it's was just texts and she feels bad. Let it go."
> 
> Talking to Sham's friends = Damage Control
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She doesn't know about the texts. Not that it makes much difference. She thinks he cracked her video Skype acct.


----------



## golfergirl

jezza said:


> I've been keeping up with this all the way through whilst staying on the sidelines.
> What Sham is going through is very tough indeed and he has kept his integrity and left with his head held high. Its very sad when a marriage fails, for whatever reason.
> 
> Whilst I am not insinuating that Sham has been 'economical' with the truth, we must remember that we are only getting his side of the story.
> 
> There was a recent post on TAM from a husband complaining about his wife, the way she was treating him etc etc. Suddenly the wife pops up and gave her side...he was physically abusing her etc
> 
> I am NOT saying that Sham was being physically or mentally 'violent' to his wife.... All I am saying is that there are always two sides to a story.
> 
> I don't think any husband or wife has an affair just for the hell of it. If all is well in a marriage (including the sex side) people don't, generally, go over the side. I suspect that Mrs Sham did what she did because all was not well at home.
> Whilst that doesnt make it right, it does make it more understandable.
> 
> Whilst it is unlikely, it IS possible that 'all' Sham's wife ever had was 'sext' or cyber sex. THIS DOES NOT MAKE WHAT SHE DID ACCEPTABLE. But we have to atleast bear it in mind that perhaps she IS telling the truth when she said 'nothing ever happened anyway'.
> 
> Whilst all the evidence Sham has is compelling, it IS circumstantial. All the panties could prove is that there is male semen on them. That does not prove she had sex with him. She COULD have given the OM her panties to ''have fun with'....Unlikely but a possibility.
> 
> Having cyber sex is not, legally speaking, adultery. But what it most certainly is is unreasonable behaviour. And this particular sort of unreasonable behaviour is very firm ground for justified divorce.
> 
> Sham...you felt betrayed and you had some very tough choices to make. You made the toughest choice - to walk away. Good luck and I hope you find what it is you are looking for in life.
> 
> And to Mrs Sham I say - what you did was wrong. However, I am also sure you had your reasons for doing it. Had you been honest when Sham asked you what you were up to then maybe you could have sorted things out and not be in this 'mess'.
> I also wish you luck in finding whatever it is you are really looking for in life...



They haven't had sex since April and the crusty panties came from her suitcase. I would hope she laundered them since their last encounter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

ManDup said:


> "We went to a room together, but I couldn't go through with it. He already was worked up, so he asked if I had some spare panties he could masturbate into. Having led him on that far, I said OK."
> 
> Anything can be lied about.


 I understand where you're coming from, but if she was to say that statement compounded with the pages and pages of sexting and photo and video exchange. That would obviously be a lie. The panties would just be the cherry on the top and I don't look at it as the smoking gun. Just a way to confirm that everything was a lie.


----------



## ManDup

MrK said:


> Lying to your husband about a secret trip to Vegas to meet a man you have been having an secret emotional relationship with with the intent to have sex is a 100% adulterous affair.
> 
> Jezza; Everyone has an affair for a reason. We all get that now. Implying she may be teling the truth about penetration is moot. The panties are moot. She is already just as guilty as if she were screwing him every Saturday night and every other Wednesday at lunch.


Exactly. I don't think the cops wait for the pedophile to actually have intercourse with children when they run a sting. They just arrest the guy for intent.


----------



## Gabriel

My theory/interpretation:

The "How is he?" is her fishing for information. She is trying to find out what Sham is doing, since he has gone dark. She wants to know what he is up to. Not really concerned for his feelings.

The "how do you recover from that", is referring to Sham, not herself. She's realizing that given what he's seen, it's too late to really keep the charade going and stay married. 

The "not that it matters" means that even though she claims it was just a fantasy, the content is too damaging regardless. She is saying, yup, the jig is up, but for the record, I didn't actually sleep with him. And it sounds like she isn't all that broken up about it. This statement is kind of an admittance that Sham has caught on to something that is too much, and oh well let's move on.

The "I'll get a lawyer when I can afford one." is tougher to interpret, for me. It could be a 'poor me' comment. She's already complained to Sham about leaving her with the house, etc. It could also be a power play, like, "well, ILL decide the time frame now that YOU'VE decided to leave."


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> My theory/interpretation:
> 
> The "How is he?" is her fishing for information. She is trying to find out what Sham is doing, since he has gone dark. She wants to know what he is up to. Not really concerned for his feelings.
> 
> The "how do you recover from that", is referring to Sham, not herself. She's realizing that given what he's seen, it's too late to really keep the charade going and stay married.
> 
> The "not that it matters" means that even though she claims it was just a fantasy, the content is too damaging regardless. She is saying, yup, the jig is up, but for the record, I didn't actually sleep with him. And it sounds like she isn't all that broken up about it. This statement is kind of an admittance that Sham has caught on to something that is too much, and oh well let's move on.
> 
> The "I'll get a lawyer when I can afford one." is tougher to interpret, for me. It could be a 'poor me' comment. She's already complained to Sham about leaving her with the house, etc. It could also be a power play, like, "well, ILL decide the time frame now that YOU'VE decided to leave."


Nobody knows what she's thinking or going through. Only Shamwow knows her and when things cool anything may happen. How Shamwow and his wife thought they could have a long distance marriage or even want one is beyond me. The only upside to "distance makes the heart grow fonder" is that the reunion sure is fun. As affairs go this one seems EA possibly very little PA, but so far fairly short lived. Hard to see that she would be committed to a married man with two break ups under their belt.

Just saying if any relationship can stand the strain these two put on theirs I've never heard of it. If your supposed to keep your friends close and your enemies closer you had better keep your mate under your wing. You need to know whats going on so you can reasonably protect her or she will eventually fly. It's simply too vulnerable position. Lonely days and lonely nights are just too much for most people.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> As far as pitying her goes, I'm getting there, trust me. Yes, these communications today (one-way, I've not sent her one iota of a message since I walked out the back door on Friday) seem to have affected me a bit...but mainly because I've been awaiting her response at some point, and the concept of going dark has been really hard for me, out of my normal character. It's getting easier. What's so crazy is that she's being so predictable right now. I just played the hardest play in the book, and she seriously is still blaming me for "snooping" instead of owning up to what she did? Curious to see how she's responding after no contact for a week.


I would have expected some comment of I'm sorry. More than sorry you saw those.


----------



## crossbar

Well, sorry for anyone that doesn't agree with this statement or think it really doesn't matter, but I hope he gets those lab reports today.

And the reason I say this is because, cheaters are incredibly good liars and manipulators. I really don't want her to get to Sham and try to convince him that nothing happened. Planting a seed of doubt in his head. Then he's stuck with that in his head. "Maybe something DIDN'T happen." I know that Sham has a stronger concept of what's going on here. But, I've seen WW and WH manipulate their BS back into their live with lies. Just don't want to see that happen to anyone that's been wronged.


----------



## golfergirl

Entropy3000 said:


> I would have expected some comment of I'm sorry. More than sorry you saw those.


I offer a more sincere apology for stepping on my husband's foot! There's no sadness in there or remorse. She's just trying to downplay things. If she acts like it's not a big deal, then automatically in your mind in goes down in severity of betrayal. Even if you find it ultimate betrayal, she's playing it down so you might start thinking, 'well she didn't realize how much it would hurt me - she didn't think it was that wrong' 
She's on fact-finding, game playing mission.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Good point. Yes, her folks have consistently and basically unconditionally forgiven her for many many "childhood indiscretions", mainly wild child kinda stuff, stealing, vandalism, crashing the family car while underage, moving out at 16 and dropping out, etc. (she subsequently finished high school and got a college degree and has been very successful on her own all along) That kinda stuff. The difference is that she just turned 37. Adult time. She's always been a free spirit, and they've always seen her for the best of what she can be (they are after all her parents, and loving, perhaps to a fault). And she has always been redeemable with them because she's truly been a great girl at the base of it all. However, she has just gone beyond the limits of her marriage now...and that will of course take its toll on her, but I'm sure her parents will support her no matter what. But the talk I had with her dad yesterday showed him apologetic and empathetic with me...knowing his daughter had behaved so poorly. And he didn't question it one bit coming from my mouth.
> 
> "I'm sorry" won't cut it with me in this situation though. Hell, it would be a good start in me letting her go, but at the moment, I see myself as starting to let her go weeks ago when she lied to me about something so substantial (Vegas), and indicating that she was okay with that.


This is very telling background information.


----------



## Almostrecovered

sorry- can't help myself

but she reminds me of this-


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> Lying to your husband about a secret trip to Vegas to meet a man you have been having an secret emotional relationship with with the intent to have sex is a 100% adulterous affair.
> 
> Jezza; Everyone has an affair for a reason. We all get that now. Implying she may be teling the truth about penetration is moot. The panties are moot. She is already just as guilty as if she were screwing him every Saturday night and every other Wednesday at lunch.


Yup. That in itself is enough forgetting all the rest.

The thing is people do act on impulse. Life is not an even balance. People do bad things without good reason. People can act unilaterally in selfish ways and do. We should not blame the faithful spouse for the behavior of the WS. Blame is rarely 50 -50 anyway. Occasionally it is, but it is a warped view to blame bad behavior on anyone but the perp. Sure we can have an extreme liberal view and make every perp a victim. A case can always be made. This allows to feel good by not holding anyone accountable. Like it was all just an accident and really no ones fault.

Sure there are always sides to a story. But again the truth is rarely directly in the middle. That is just lazy thinking. Maybe it is a bell curve. Truth will lie most often in between. In this case it is very possible that truth is actually worse than what Sham knows. So not in between but beyond. 

Just as we can project and say she has a story to tell, we can equally project that she has done this before or that her behavior is worse than he knows. Do we have proof of this? No. But if we are going to project and add things into this then probability tells us it is as likley a worse scenario as it is better. 

But your point is the most valid. It does not matter. Just the lying about the Vegas trip with other men is enough. All the rest is just supportive of what she already admitted to.

And of course one could forgive a wife for sharing her panties with a man to jerk off into and then take them back. Sure now that makes sense ........ But I do agree that is a possible answer she will make when confronted. We just for some reason cannot hold people accountable any more.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think she is freaking out. I think she thought she would get away with it, or Sham would put up with it. She is trying to find out how weak Sham is. "How is he?" is really asking "Is he going to come home?"

Deep down she knows that Sham was a good husband. She realizes that she screwed up royally. Once she realizes that she is alone, she will strike out.

The texts will go from asking how he is, to telling him what a useless husband he was. She will get mean and try to deflect. He was the reason she did what she did.

I am 99% sure that it got physical in Las Vegas. All the texts leading up to the trip about how he won't be able to work because she will be too busy ****ing him. Pretty hard to go from that to, oh I changed my mind. If she really changed her mind, she would have been on a plane back home the morning after the first night. She wouldn't have stayed the weekend.

Stay strong Sham, it is going to get nasty.


----------



## ArabianKnight

Could someone tell me what is crusty panties? And when thtat happens
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

ArabianKnight said:


> Could someone tell me what is crusty panties? And when thtat happens
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Google it.


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## Shamwow

ArabianKnight said:


> Could someone tell me what is crusty panties? And when thtat happens
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Google "semen on panties".


----------



## Shamwow

Just got an email from her closest girlfriend. Let the mindf**k begin. Luckily, I recognize it as that.

She basically said she is so very, very sorry. She won't be a go-between for us, but she is there for me if I need anything. Also told me how the way I've conducted myself in this situation takes an incredible amount of strength, and she has so very much respect for me.


It was nice to hear from her (as we are very close), but as close as we are, we all know I could never be as close to her as she is with my wife. I think my wife asked her to send me a message along these lines to see if I'll bite. I won't.


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## Joanie

Good thinking Sham. I wouldn't give the mutual friend any info whatsoever. The less contact you have with your wife and her friends the better! You are doing really well in this difficult time. I think when you look back you will know and be proud that you handled yourself with class and dignity. You're a good person who deserves a much better life!


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## WhereAmI

I'd send her a short and sweet reply. "Thank you for your kind words. I hope you're doing well." if she begins asking questions, just tell her you aren't interested in discussing the marriage, but appreciate her friendship. Although you need to protect yourself, this isn't the time to remove people from your life. Just be straightforward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm

Interesting email from the friend! 

Is this friend single? 

Could mean what you think (getting info for wife) or could mean that she realizes that your wife screwed up royally and she would like to 'be there for you'.

I once had a very tough break up. I met with my ex's best friend who comforted me and then pretty much asked me out. I was in no state of mind to take her up on it as I was heartbroken, but she later told me that she was interested in me. That she thought my ex was stupid to break up with me. I often wondered how that could of worked out as she (the friend of my ex) was quite a catch.


----------



## Stunner

Shamwow said:


> Just got an email from her closest girlfriend. Let the mindf**k begin. Luckily, I recognize it as that.
> 
> She basically said she is so very, very sorry. She won't be a go-between for us, but she is there for me if I need anything. Also told me how the way I've conducted myself in this situation takes an incredible amount of strength, and she has so very much respect for me.
> 
> 
> It was nice to hear from her (as we are very close), but as close as we are, we all know I could never be as close to her as she is with my wife. *I think my wife asked her to send me a message along these lines to see if I'll bite. I won't*.


Possibly...

But I think you may be reading too much into that... you said she is your friend right? and I'm assuming a grown adult correct? It is possible that she has her own opinions and chose to express them...and based on what you wrote about what she said, it doesnt sound loaded at all.

If anything you may have some nice "action" in the works! because shes making herself available to you and I sense admiration...this is not a definite but I've seen many a "hook up" happen just that this... Spouse cheats...couple splits up...and the frienf who always had a thing burning swoops in. :awink:


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Just got an email from her closest girlfriend. Let the mindf**k begin. Luckily, I recognize it as that.
> 
> She basically said she is so very, very sorry. She won't be a go-between for us, but she is there for me if I need anything. Also told me how the way I've conducted myself in this situation takes an incredible amount of strength, and she has so very much respect for me.
> 
> 
> It was nice to hear from her (as we are very close), but as close as we are, we all know I could never be as close to her as she is with my wife. I think my wife asked her to send me a message along these lines to see if I'll bite. I won't.


Was this one of her friends who knew your wife was carrying on an affair?


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## SadSamIAm

I think the reply that 'WhereAmI' suggested is perfect. You aren't ready for a relationship anyhow. The reply is nice, doesn't offer anything about your ex and thanks your friend for what might be a genuine offer for help.

What she said is perfectly true. You have handled yourself very well Sham. Many a woman will respect you and even your wife's friends will realize how inappropriate she was.


----------



## MarriedTex

WhereAmI said:


> I'd send her a short and sweet reply. "Thank you for your kind words. I hope you're doing well." if she begins asking questions, just tell her you aren't interested in discussing the marriage, but appreciate her friendship. Although you need to protect yourself, this isn't the time to remove people from your life. Just be straightforward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would suggest doing this as well. If she is fishing for information for Mrs. Shamwow, you portray image of strength that is only input Mrs. Shamwow will get while you remain in dark zone. 

In the PR campaign, you project image of kindness and stability that may rebut any attempts (now or future) by wife to cast you as unreliable/no good. I think an approach of "courteous but cautious and guarded" is best way to go in dealing with "her" friends.

But don't get caught in board's notion of "something is up" here. If this is the case, it will develop under its own accord. But don't let this thinking impact how you decide to interact with people. Just be a stand-up guy. That is all that is needed.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Just got an email from her closest girlfriend. Let the mindf**k begin. Luckily, I recognize it as that.
> 
> She basically said she is so very, very sorry. She won't be a go-between for us, but she is there for me if I need anything. Also told me how the way I've conducted myself in this situation takes an incredible amount of strength, and she has so very much respect for me.
> 
> 
> It was nice to hear from her (as we are very close), but as close as we are, we all know I could never be as close to her as she is with my wife. I think my wife asked her to send me a message along these lines to see if I'll bite. I won't.


She is probably somewhat torn and being somewhat honest. Her role however is suspect as you can see. A spy at least. A means to manipulate as well.


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> Was this one of her friends who knew your wife was carrying on an affair?


Not sure...I know she knew my wife was conflicted about our marriage, and was considering leaving me. As for knowing about any affair details, I can't say. I would imagine my wife wouldn't want to tell such things about herself to a friend, especially one who hasn't traveled down that road.

Her other friend who has been pulling EA with some guy for the last year though? I guarantee she knew about all of the details. Sounding board.

The friend that sent me this email was prob kept in the dark.


----------



## Entropy3000

Stunner said:


> Possibly...
> 
> But I think you may be reading too much into that... you said she is your friend right? and I'm assuming a grown adult correct? It is possible that she has her own opinions and chose to express them...and based on what you wrote about what she said, it doesnt sound loaded at all.
> 
> If anything you may have some nice "action" in the works! because shes making herself available to you and I sense admiration...this is not a definite but I've seen many a "hook up" happen just that this... Spouse cheats...couple splits up...and the frienf who always had a thing burning swoops in. :awink:


If this is true, avoid this at all costs. Nothing good would come of it. Find other women after the divorce. Find new friends.


----------



## Shamwow

WhereAmI said:


> I'd send her a short and sweet reply. "Thank you for your kind words. I hope you're doing well." if she begins asking questions, just tell her you aren't interested in discussing the marriage, but appreciate her friendship. Although you need to protect yourself, this isn't the time to remove people from your life. Just be straightforward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You all make a good point. No need to alienate a friend, just need to withhold any information whatsoever other than my appreciation of her concern. Point taken. I won't ignore her. (Sorry, kneejerk reaction to not talk to people close to her right now) Will send a simple response like the above that shows respect for our friendship.


----------



## alphaomega

Ask her friend to go to Vegas with you.

Lol. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Remember. Don't get vindictive. You've been amazing at being fair, but holding onto your boundaries. Just don't let that slip. You want to be the bigger person, who has the manly confidence and strength without resorting to childish pettiness.

Not that you have, but anger will come back to the surface soon enough.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

SadSamIAm said:


> Interesting email from the friend!
> 
> Is this friend single?
> 
> Could mean what you think (getting info for wife) or could mean that she realizes that your wife screwed up royally and she would like to 'be there for you'.



Nope, she's married, and her husband is a very close friend of mine. He is one of the few close friends I called and had a calm discussion with on Saturday to let them know what I'd had to do and why (with limited details, only enough to make my reasoning clear before she could poison them with rewriting the situation). So her trying to hook up with me would not be the way to look at this situation.

Though if I hear this from some of her single friends...hmm...

lol, gonna be a while before my brain will work that way again though.


----------



## AniversaryFight

this is very tricky Sham. First congrats for detecting the danger from her friend. Whether she is truly have sympathy for you or not, never give any details to her or show any regreat to your acting. Do not take any risk at this time. If something will happen, let it happens after divorce is finalized. By now just answer that "thanks for your email. Dont worry about me, I am doing good, I can handle this" finish with a smile. That will put you in asafe place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AniversaryFight

I suspect she is a spy to check your mental state and still some infos to give your wifes lawyer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

AniversaryFight said:


> I suspect she is a spy to check your mental state and still some infos to give your wifes lawyer
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. And her husband may indeed be your friend. However, he may be passing on information via his wife unknowingly. So be careful what info he has.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I doubt she is a spy. Since you talked to her husband, she has heard the 'true' story. 

99.9% of people would respect you for what you have done to handle the situation. Her friends with any morals, will not truly be there for her.

She is going to have some very difficult times in regards to friends, the OM, finances, etc. When she realizes you are serious about staying gone, she is going to get nasty. 

Make sure that you have either the police or a couple of friends with you, when you go to get the rest of your stuff.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Sham,

Just wanted to reiterate what others have said (including your wife's friend). You have handled yourself with class, dignity and strength and should feel incredibly proud of yourself.

Continue being the strong man that you are. Good things are waiting for you when you are ready.

I think you are a Rock Star.


----------



## F-102

Hmmm...with my overactive imagination, I'll throw this in. Your STBXW was hoping that you would go all puppy-dog with her friend, that you two would start texting and e-mailing each other, then she could get said texts/e-mails from said friend, and go to both your families.

"See, he dares to accuse me of cheating, but look what HE goes and does!"

And, on the subject of telling the other person's spouse, she would DEFINITELY tell her friend's H!


----------



## Mike11

F-102 said:


> Hmmm...with my overactive imagination, I'll throw this in. Your STBXW was hoping that you would go all puppy-dog with her friend, that you two would start texting and e-mailing each other, then she could get said texts/e-mails from said friend, and go to both your families.
> 
> "See, he dares to accuse me of cheating, but look what HE goes and does!"
> 
> And, on the subject of telling the other person's spouse, she would DEFINITELY tell her friend's H!



I think this communication is a bit overrated although 102 may have a possible scenario, but with her Husband let on the details since Saturday and with the friend knowing these already (Assuming the Husband/Friend had told her about the details and reasons) ,it is unlikely more then a combination of "can you see how is he doing and what is he planning to do" type of info fishing from Shams wife. 

This to me shows that Shams wife is starting to get a little panicking and need to fish out for info on shams REAL intentions.

IMHO I would respond with a polite replay as suggested here (given the almost certain fact that this email will be forwarded to sham's wife) 

it will also send a strong message to Sham's wife that the game is played on Sham's rules as he is communicating with everyone but her


----------



## Shamwow

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. And her husband may indeed be your friend. However, he may be passing on information via his wife unknowingly. So be careful what info he has.


When he asked where I was staying I said, "With all due respect, I'd prefer if I didn't say. I'll be in touch, thanks for the call man."

I also only told him a small amount of what I have in terms of evidence. She knows I have plenty, and what I've shown her is enough. Not concerned about her finding out about "where" I got the info...the fact that I have it, and that tons more is available to me can't be information that will comfort her. Even if she knew exactly where I grabbed it, from her phone, from her Skype account, from her backup drive/computer, whatever, she will always assume deep down that I probably have more.


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> it will also send a strong message to Sham's wife that the game is played on Sham's rules as he is communicating with everyone but her



Oh yeah...you're totally right. Didn't even think about that aspect.


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> I doubt she is a spy. Since you talked to her husband, she has heard the 'true' story.
> 
> 99.9% of people would respect you for what you have done to handle the situation. Her friends with any morals, will not truly be there for her.
> 
> She is going to have some very difficult times in regards to friends, the OM, finances, etc. When she realizes you are serious about staying gone, she is going to get nasty.
> 
> *Make sure that you have either the police or a couple of friends with you, when you go to get the rest of your stuff.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Gabriel

Mike11 has been pretty on point with his comments.

I think the friend saw herself as a perfect candidate to reach out, for both of your sakes. She's your Ws good friend, a friend of yours, and the W of one of your best friends. Makes sense. She probably said, "Maybe I should reach out to him, see how things are going." If it were me, I wouldn't read anything else into it, however, I wouldn't be giving her much info either.

But the fact that her H is someone Sham has talked to is a bit troubling. I mean, let's face it, this is pretty epic gossip, and the H, after talking to Sham, probably said, "Hey W, you won't believe what Sham just told me." That's what I would have done. Not only is it normal to share big news with your spouse, this kind of news also works as fodder to help them feel better about their own marriage. So Sham, be careful talking to husbands of your Ws friends.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> But the fact that her H is someone Sham has talked to is a bit troubling. I mean, let's face it, this is pretty epic gossip, and the H, after talking to Sham, probably said, "Hey W, you won't believe what Sham just told me." That's what I would have done. Not only is it normal to share big news with your spouse, this kind of news also works as fodder to help them feel better about their own marriage. So Sham, be careful talking to husbands of your Ws friends.


Funny you should say that. He is the one person I talked to that I immediately wished I could un-talk to. At least as far as info. I wish I would have just said "Yeah, some serious s**t went dwn. I had to leave. I'm fine, thanks for the call."

But it is what it is. He knows about the general details of infidelity, and now so does his wife. I didn't do it in a "trashy" way, but no doubt my wife will feel that it was...I mean, how could I betray her trust with our closest friends??? lol


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Funny you should say that. He is the one person I talked to that I immediately wished I could un-talk to. At least as far as info. I wish I would have just said "Yeah, some serious s**t went dwn. I had to leave. I'm fine, thanks for the call."
> 
> But it is what it is. He knows about the general details of infidelity, and now so does his wife. I didn't do it in a "trashy" way, but no doubt my wife will feel that it was...I mean, how could I betray her trust with our closest friends??? lol


Don't beat yourself up. Remember, all of this started because SHE betrayed the trust she had from Shamwow. You've been doing a great job, overall. Don't second guess yourself on minor missteps.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Sham,

Are you still on the fence about telling OMW? You could send her an anonymous text message (via spooftel) if you don't want to get into details with her, but I wish someone would have clued me in on my h's long-term (5 year) affair before his 'mistress' decided to out it in order to persuade him to leave me... (it didn't work out so well for her, btw).

Anyway, I would vote that you tell the OMW. I know you're dealing with a lot, but I truly feel it's the best thing to do for another human being.

Hang in there kiddo. You're doing great.


----------



## Chaparral

girlfromipanema said:


> Sham,
> 
> Are you still on the fence about telling OMW? You could send her an anonymous text message (via spooftel) if you don't want to get into details with her, but I wish someone would have clued me in on my h's long-term (5 year) affair before his 'mistress' decided to out it in order to persuade him to leave me... (it didn't work out so well for her, btw).
> 
> Anyway, I would vote that you tell the OMW. I know you're dealing with a lot, but I truly feel it's the best thing to do for another human being.
> 
> Hang in there kiddo. You're doing great.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

I think Ive been saying to expose this to OMW since like page 3


----------



## Chaparral

OMW is being walked on bad and there is no one to clue her in. I wonder if her friends know.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Funny you should say that. He is the one person I talked to that I immediately wished I could un-talk to. At least as far as info. I wish I would have just said "Yeah, some serious s**t went dwn. I had to leave. I'm fine, thanks for the call."
> 
> But it is what it is. He knows about the general details of infidelity, and now so does his wife. I didn't do it in a "trashy" way, but no doubt my wife will feel that it was...I mean, how could I betray her trust with our closest friends??? lol


Sham 

Think strategy here for a second, although they are a risk in terms of information "leak" at the same time they are an indirect channel of information for you, I mean, emotions aside here for a second, with careful planning and thinking, and the correct wordings in how you communicate to them you have an indirect channel to relay some heavy "sh1t" to your STBX
and at the same time to learn what her state of mind and what she is planning to do 

I would say keep that channel open, you have full control on what been said so far and what you are going to say communicating farther , it is as you said a mind F...ing game but you can use that to your benefit and tactical advantage for sure


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Funny you should say that. He is the one person I talked to that I immediately wished I could un-talk to. At least as far as info. I wish I would have just said "Yeah, some serious s**t went dwn. I had to leave. I'm fine, thanks for the call."
> 
> But it is what it is. He knows about the general details of infidelity, and now so does his wife. I didn't do it in a "trashy" way, but no doubt my wife will feel that it was...I mean, how could I betray her trust with our closest friends??? lol


Oh well, sham-at least they have your side of the story before (hopefully) your STBX got to them.

And I know, my scenario does sound a bit far-fetched, but you see what your STBXW is indeed capable of. And face it, just a few months ago, did you think you would be where you are now?


----------



## crossbar

I would forget the "spy" theory. however, it wouldn't surprise me if she was reaching out to everyone to see if they've heard from you. You aren't there and she can't gage where your head is at. She doesn't know which direction to turn because you're not playing by her rules. You aren't playing fair! 

Too bad!


By the way, I take it the lab results haven't come back yet, huh?


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> OMW is being walked on bad and there is no one to clue her in. I wonder if her friends know.


I will talk to her, just can't bring myself to do it yet.


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> I would forget the "spy" theory. however, it wouldn't surprise me if she was reaching out to everyone to see if they've heard from you. You aren't there and she can't gage where your head is at. She doesn't know which direction to turn because you're not playing by her rules. You aren't playing fair!
> 
> Too bad!
> 
> 
> By the way, I take it the lab results haven't come back yet, huh?


No lab results yet...they said 5-7 days, and they were dropped off at the lab on Thursday. I'll keep you posted...


----------



## Shamwow

One more text from last night that was relayed today...from my wife to the same friend of mine that she texted last night. (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)

After the short string I mentioned last night, she texted him back:

"I don't deserve to be loved."


Pity play, probably. Also finally a sign of some remorse of some kind.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> I will talk to her, just can't bring myself to do it yet.



I wish I could do it for you cause I'd do it in a heartbeat
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> One more text from last night that was relayed today...from my wife to the same friend of mine that she texted last night. (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)
> 
> After the short string I mentioned last night, she texted him back:
> 
> "I don't deserve to be loved."
> 
> 
> Pity play, probably. Also finally a sign of some remorse of some kind.


It is probably a pity play. She is right though.

It could also be here being sarcastic. Maybe you would have some insight there.

You gave her every chance to not go to Vegas.


----------



## Gabriel

Your going dark is working tremendously well. It is having the desired effect.

Sham, I know hearing that has to be heart wrenching. It is her natural defense mechanism to survive emotionally. Don't let her drag you down with it though. This is going to get a LOT harder before it gets easier.

See, like many waywards, it is all about them. It's not, "Gosh I feel so bad to have hurt him like this." Instead it's I, I, I, I, I don't deserve to be loved. See the focus is still all on her.


----------



## Gabriel

I hope she doesn't do this, but to pull you out of the dark, she might say she is planning to hurt herself. It will be the last desperate ploy. And if she did (again, I am not hoping for this, AT ALL), it would NOT be your fault.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> One more text from last night that was relayed today...from my wife to the same friend of mine that she texted last night. (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)
> 
> After the short string I mentioned last night, she texted him back:
> 
> "I don't deserve to be loved."
> 
> 
> Pity play, probably. Also finally a sign of some remorse of some kind.


Please keep the updates coming. Several eyes are better than one.


manipulation on her part. she assumed correctly that the message will reach you.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> One more text from last night that was relayed today...from my wife to the same friend of mine that she texted last night. (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)
> 
> After the short string I mentioned last night, she texted him back:
> 
> "I don't deserve to be loved."
> 
> 
> Pity play, probably. Also finally a sign of some remorse of some kind.



Sham, 

This is again valuable piece of info, as I read this it means your actions are pounding heavy in to her finally, this is priceless piece of info 
it may as well be a "show" that she is making but it seem genuine combined with the rest of the text 

Keep on going man, stay NC and monitor all channels of information


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)


Oh hell no, I gave up TV for this thread.

This woman is the stuff of nightmares, I'm still hoping she's just a prisoner of one of the deepest WW delusions I've heard of.
I keep expecting her to snap out of it any minute now.

Honestly it makes me feel a bit better just seeing the tiny bit of remorse her self-pitying text implies.
The fact that I'm shocked by such a tiny gesture from her is telling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Too early for her to develop meaningful remorse.

I think she can only develop remorse after she's truly broken; and she is nowhere close. Dont forget she has decades of practice.


----------



## Shamwow

Hmmm...I have received a few calls from unknown numbers today, on my cell. 800's. Both have called twice and not left messages. Googling them I see reports of them being collection agencies, OR credit card comanies that tell people that a family member used their name as a reference for an unpaid debt.

Could be a coincidence, *but I'm not really into those right now*. She might be effing with me, or perhaps OM or one of her d-bag party friends from the road is effing with me.

I'll answer next time. Dying to hear this.

Might be time for a full-on switch to a new number. I have a prepaid POS phone that I got a couple weeks ago for calling lawyers, hotels, lab folks, etc, but it's not a permanent solution. What a pain in the a**.


----------



## Mike11

aug said:


> Too early for her to develop meaningful remorse.
> 
> I think she can only develop remorse after she's truly broken; and she is nowhere close. Dont forget she has decades of practice.


Somewhat agree 

But what Sham has done is very out of character for him in their relationship and with her somewhat "narcissistic" style personality this can cast some serious doubt that will get her quickly to the "Broken" state, I think her confidence level is starting to somewhat dwindle that is why she is reaching out to common friend try to dig information to Shams state of mind

If she was certain that that Sham would come back crawling after a day or two, now she is starting to realize that the whole situation does not play exactly how she thought it would play and doubt is creeping in 

Look at the nature of the texts she is sending, the first one was cold and spiteful type "so you cracked my Skype" 
and it is now completely different as of the last one received, this is going to even get worst in time as Sham is going to keep NC and Reality is going to sink in with divorce process forced on her


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> One more text from last night that was relayed today...from my wife to the same friend of mine that she texted last night. (please tell me if you want me to stop with the updates...)
> 
> After the short string I mentioned last night, she texted him back:
> 
> "I don't deserve to be loved."
> 
> 
> Pity play, probably. Also finally a sign of some remorse of some kind.


Not remorse - still all about her!

Please keep with updates, we care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> Sham, I know hearing that has to be heart wrenching. It is her natural defense mechanism to survive emotionally. Don't let her drag you down with it though. This is going to get a LOT harder before it gets easier.


Thanks, I won't let it get to me, at least not more than making me think about it. Sucks to hear this is going to get harder though. Not exactly a font of joy at he moment. Though I guess I am pretty good. At least I'm not at home making small talk and watching TV with her in an awkward state of denial, pretending I wouldn't rather be ANYWHERE ELSE. So that's a plus.


----------



## Mike11

golfergirl said:


> Not remorse - still all about her!
> 
> Please keep with updates, we care!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> Not remorse - still all about her!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point. How about, "He didn't deserve that"?


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Thanks, I won't let it get to me, at least not more than making me think about it. Sucks to hear this is going to get harder though. Not exactly a font of joy at he moment. Though I guess I am pretty good. At least I'm not at home making small talk and watching TV with her in an awkward state of denial, pretending I wouldn't rather be ANYWHERE ELSE. So that's a plus.


Stay Strong Sham 

We are all here to support you


----------



## Chaparral

golfergirl said:


> Not remorse - still all about her!
> 
> Please keep with updates, we care!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, this is just one text out of who knows how many to other people. No context or anything. She may be non stop texting or texting very little. Three or four texts probably gives very little insight into what is going on with her. Just saying.:scratchhead:


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Good point. How about, "He didn't deserve that"?


It is to early for that, it may get to that down the line


----------



## aug

Mike11 said:


> Look at the nature of the texts she is sending, the first one was cold and spiteful type "so you cracked my Skype"
> and it is now completely different as of the last one received, this is going to even get worst in time as Sham is going to keep NC and Reality is going to sink in with divorce process forced on her


The first message was to Sham; the others were to his friends spinning her side.


----------



## Mike11

aug said:


> The first message was to Sham; the others were to his friends spinning her side.


Agree but with the full knowledge that He will get these

The lady may have issues but she is definitely not stupid


----------



## Almostrecovered

While sham got 3-4 texts from his wife you can bet OM got 100's
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Almostrecovered said:


> While sham got 3-4 texts from his wife you can bet OM got 100's
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the sad part about it, She is still in the fog and trying to concoct her version of events with the other man

Standard Script from the cheaters hand book


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> While sham got 3-4 texts from his wife you can bet OM got 100's
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, and I can confirm that. She still hasn't thought to change her passwords.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Yep, and I can confim that. She stil hasn't thought to change her passwords.


Sham are you able to read the content of these ?


----------



## Shamwow

Someone asked before about the VAR record time (the one in her office). It records for 84 hours...shuts itself off automatically when there hasn't been any noise for 2-3 sec. Given sleep time, running errands (in friend's car, of course), etc, I figure that gives me almost a week before it needs to be replaced. Which is fine, because most of the s**t would go down in the first couple days I would imagine.

Not sure how long I even want to continue to monitor things. I imagine after a certain point it would be unhealthy for me to do. Right now though, I'd like to hear what went down after I left, and who she told what. (or maybe I don't? Not sure if I wanna hear her cry...then again, maybe it would be empowering to hear her NOT cry...as that seems likely given her recent state).


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> Sham are you able to read the content of these ?


unfortunately, no. I wasn't able to get into her phone or computer before leaving.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Someone asked before about the VAR record time (the one in her office). It records for 84 hours...shuts itself off automatically when there hasn't been any noise for 2-3 sec. Given sleep time, running errands (in friend's car, of course), etc, I figure that gives me almost a week before it needs to be replaced. Which is fine, because most of the s**t would go down in the first couple days I would imagine.
> 
> Not sure how long I even want to continue to monitor things. I imagine after a certain point it would be unhealthy for me to do. Right now though, I'd like to hear what went down after I left, and who she told what. (or maybe I don't? Not sure if I wanna hear her cry...then again, maybe it would be empowering to hear her NOT cry...as that seems likely given her recent state).



As much as it is hard on you, I would believe that you need to monitor until this situation will come to some resolution, (either D or R) this is your advantage in this situation and as much as it may hurt you to hear it can give you valuable information when you most need it(even if you cannot use it in court)

Knowledge is the ultimate power


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> unfortunately, no. I wasn't able to get into her phone or computer before leaving.


What about the online Account that she did not changed her password to ?


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> What about the online Account that she did not changed her password to ?


I can see her incoming email and I can see our cell phone account (#s she texts and calls, as well as mine.."family" plan of course). I can also log into her facebook, but am refraining from that because I'm guessing when she goes to FB it asks her to login again, if I logged in earlier on another computer. If she has to do that too much it'll make her wonder, and then she'll change everything. 

FYI - as for me, I have deactivated my FB account (temporarily, it will come back as normal whenever I choose, prob when D is final and I can put up pics of me waterskiing w/young hottie who treats me right?). Figured it best to drop off the grid to avoid anything crazy from that angle.

She has recently changed her bank login and her airline login. CCs, not sure, but I've seen recent statements.

From what I can tell, her bday had to be rather amusing from a FB perspective. I left the night before, and she's prob STILL getting messages wishing her a "great day!".

Do I feel bad? Eh.


----------



## Mike11

As Far as I know you can log in to a facebook account and then log off from the different machine and it will not show that you have logged on as long as you log off at the end, I was able to log in to my wifes facebook account and I am regularly logging in to her FB(without her knowledge)
(I can disclose the reason on a PM if you wish) in any case the only why she will notice is if she has to many new messages suddenly losing their Unread status other wise with a careful log out at the end of the session I thing that she has no way to find out

Facebook is a asynchronous web application that is using security based on computer and session ID so if she has a "remember me" on her Facebook account on her system I am almost certain that she will not notice 

How Technical is she ?


----------



## piqued

Sham, regarding her text to your friend about "I don't deserve to be loved". This completely encapsulates her. She is very manipulative. Look at the pity play in that statement. She's looking for a response; affirmation that she is lovable. Remember, this is the same song and dance as when you first confronted her; she deflected it all by crying and saying "who would want to be with me?" or some such nonsense.

Nevermind that she was/is in an EA (and probably PA) with OM, nevermind that she's put you through an emotional ringer, nevermind that her actions and lies have violated any and every trust in a marriage, all she can offer to the outside world is a plea to affirm HER self worth?

She is totally self-absorbed, and you've done right to disengage from that. No more enabling.


----------



## crossbar

piqued said:


> Sham, regarding her text to your friend about "I don't deserve to be loved". This completely encapsulates her. She is very manipulative. Look at the pity play in that statement. She's looking for a response; affirmation that she is lovable. Remember, this is the same song and dance as when you first confronted her; she deflected it all by crying and saying "who would want to be with me?" or some such nonsense.
> 
> Nevermind that she was/is in an EA (and probably PA) with OM, nevermind that she's put you through an emotional ringer, nevermind that her actions and lies have violated any and every trust in a marriage, all she can offer to the outside world is a plea to affirm HER self worth?
> 
> She is totally self-absorbed, and you've done right to disengage from that. No more enabling.


 Totally agree with this. It's a pity party. She was probably hoping by saying this to your friend, he would turn around and say," Dude, she's really feeling awful and is in a bad place." So, you would be inclined to check up on her. Thus, getting sucked back into communcating with her. At least that's what I think she's playing at.


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> As Far as I know you can log in to a facebook account and then log off from the different machine and it will not show that you have logged on as long as you log off at the end, I was able to log in to my wifes facebook account and I am regularly logging in to her FB(without her knowledge)
> (I can disclose the reason on a PM if you wish) in any case the only why she will notice is if she has to many new messages suddenly losing their Unread status other wise with a careful log out at the end of the session I thing that she has no way to find out
> 
> Facebook is a asynchronous web application that is using security based on computer and session ID so if she has a "remember me" on her Facebook account on her system I am almost certain that she will not notice
> 
> How Technical is she ?


I would say she's "fairly" technical. She knows how to operate technical equipment, computers and software, but when it comes to the details I win (and have always won) in that department, though I'm no computer genius.

I'm sure she has Remember Me checked on FB login, as I usually do (did). So if I log in from a different computer to her account, then log off after a few minutes, she won't get a message asking her to login again? That's helpful if true. Thanks. Not that I can imagine getting much from her FB account, except perhaps a general posting of how her husband left her high and dry or something...at least I'd have a heads up for the coming s**tstorm if that were the case. Though she might go underground on FB with her OM communications...can't say I've ever seen her use FB for anything other than general comments and random updates.


----------



## Shaggy

She seems addicted to texting 

Sham. It's time to bring in the OMW and pull out your wife's support network. 

As long as he's available to text with 24/7 she will remain deep in the fog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> She seems addicted to texting
> 
> Sham. It's time to bring in the OMW and pull out your wife's support network.
> 
> As long as he's available to text with 24/7 she will remain deep in the fog.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, I know. Why is this last step so hard for me? Big decision...and I've made many recently and committed to them. This one will hurt someone that's innocent (I presume) very badly, just as I've been. I guess it's just one that I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on. Anyone wanna make the contact for me?

If not, I'm guessing I'll get there in a day, maybe a few. I know she has a right to know. If those panties come back positive it would be an instant no-brainer (STD's). I would have kissed her feet if she'd found this out a few months ago, contacted me, and put me in the driver's seat in my own situation. I guess I'll sit down tonight and write out what I will say to her. Sorry guys, I'll get off the pot here eventually. Just have never interrupted another couple's marriage. But hey - he did it to mine.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> I know, I know. Why is this last step so hard for me? Big decision...and I've made many recently and committed to them. This one will hurt someone that's innocent (I presume) very badly, just as I've been. I guess it's just one that I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on. Anyone wanna make the contact for me?
> 
> If not, I'm guessing I'll get there in a day, maybe a few. I know she has a right to know. If those panties come back positive it would be an instant no-brainer (STD's). I would have kissed her feet if she'd found this out a few months ago, contacted me, and put me in the driver's seat in my own situation. I guess I'll sit down tonight and write out what I will say to her. Sorry guys, I'll get off the pot here eventually. Just have never interrupted another couple's marriage. But hey - he did it to mine.



You aren't hurting her, OM already has done that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Actually he did it to his own too. You aren't the one who's interrupting it, you are one telling the truth to someone with a right to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> You aren't hurting her, OM already has done that
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

I think jellybeans had a good script for informing the om/ow spouse, if anyone recalls it would be helpful
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hoping4better

Sham, first off kudos to you man, been following this entire thread, bravo! For the omw why not mail her the stuff instead then follow up with a call once you confirm she received it. Best to mail to a work address so it's not intercepted by the om
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

hoping4better said:


> Sham, first off kudos to you man, been following this entire thread, bravo! For the omw why not mail her the stuff instead then follow up with a call once you confirm she received it. Best to mail to a work address so it's not intercepted by the om
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would love to have a work address, but have already paid a PI $650 for her two cell phone numbers (one work, one personal,don't know which is which)...both were unlisted. Would have loved an email, but same story. Not cheap to find out what isn't publicly available. Almost better off flying out, staking out her home and handing it to her when OM is gone. Hmmm...


----------



## Almostrecovered

You'd be surprised how much info facebook can yield and what people don't keep private
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> You'd be surprised how much info facebook can yield and what people don't keep private
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't find her on FB, and her "husband's" (sic) account is so friggin cryptic it's maddening. There are 13 pics of him, and not one of them shows his entire face. It shows he's married, but not to who. Ummm...something to hide? Or just artsy. Either way, I have his number and address, and his wife's two cell numbers.

Perhaps they're both in the CIA?


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Would love to have a work address, but have already paid a PI $650 for her two cell phone numbers (one work, one personal,don't know which is which)...both were unlisted. Would have loved an email, but same story. Not cheap to find out what isn't publicly available. Almost better off flying out, staking out her home and handing it to her when OM is gone. Hmmm...


Did you try to reverse engeneer the numbers ?
There are websites that can assist in that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

google reverse cell phone lookup


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> google reverse cell phone lookup


Been all over it...thanks though.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> I know, I know. Why is this last step so hard for me? Big decision...and I've made many recently and committed to them. This one will hurt someone that's innocent (I presume) very badly, just as I've been. I guess it's just one that I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on. Anyone wanna make the contact for me?
> 
> If not, I'm guessing I'll get there in a day, maybe a few. I know she has a right to know. If those panties come back positive it would be an instant no-brainer (STD's). I would have kissed her feet if she'd found this out a few months ago, contacted me, and put me in the driver's seat in my own situation. I guess I'll sit down tonight and write out what I will say to her. Sorry guys, I'll get off the pot here eventually. Just have never interrupted another couple's marriage. But hey - he did it to mine.


I can volunteer to do it for you, but it will have more credibility coming from you. Just remember how much bell you went through knowing something was going on but unable to confirm. The wife likely knows something is up, and it will be painful to have confirmation, but at least she'll then be able to make informed decisions about her future...

Again, I'm willing to help if you want some assistance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

or google: 
phonebook:xxx-xxx-xxxx


----------



## it-guy

you can practice telling the OMW from my wifes affair if you would like  I never did because its over and I don't want to drag my wife through the mud (in case the OMW freaks...probably will)


----------



## Shamwow

All over it, have two numbers from the PI, and they called both and the same woman answered. I will steel up my n*tz and make this happen, hopefully tomorrow folks. I know it needs to be done, just need to stop thinking about myself for a sec. Hard to do, as that all I've been thinking about since July, and it's served me well so far.

Thanks for the offers to make the call for me, everyone, I'll let you know if I can't do it. Then you can let er rip. Same goes for raining a tsunami of s**t down on D-Bag McGee (besides contacting his W). He needs a d**k punch in the worst way. Are any of you bikers? 

Or MMA competitors?


----------



## Shaggy

Sham it's close enough that you should wait until the panties come back from the lab. 

That way you can have some real nasty facts to pass along
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

Actually, the panties aren't necessary because they can't prove innocence - only confirm semen.

Take your time, Sham. It made my heart race to simply offer my help. It will not be a pleasant call to make. You do need to focus on yourself and telling OMW will certainly piss off your wife to a new level. I don't blame you for hesitating. 

It's so unfortunate to find ourselves faced with these unbearable decisions, isn't it? Sometimes I can hardly believe this is my life...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Sham it's close enough that you should wait until the panties come back from the lab.
> 
> That way you can have some real nasty facts to pass along
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tend to agree. Not that it makes a conceptual difference, but it creates an immediate need. I want to disrupt the connection between her and OM, but since I've already removed myself from the equation there, it seems more necessary if I had a pressing need to contact her. That said, I will do it either way. Hopefully I hear from the lab soon. Will take some of the pressure off.


----------



## Shamwow

girlfromipanema said:


> Actually, the panties aren't necessary because they can't prove innocence - only confirm semen.
> 
> Take your time, Sham. It made my heart race to simply offer my help. It will not be a pleasant call to make. You do need to focus on yourself and telling OMW will certainly piss off your wife to a new level. I don't blame you for hesitating.
> 
> It's so unfortunate to find ourselves faced with these unbearable decisions, isn't it? Sometimes I can hardly believe this is my life...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you truly are from Ipanema, she would be in your general vicinity anyway...care to stop by? 

I have a couple of really big friends out there that may be able to escort you (Samoans).


----------



## Shamwow

girlfromipanema said:


> Actually, the panties aren't necessary because they can't prove innocence - only confirm semen.
> 
> Take your time, Sham. It made my heart race to simply offer my help. It will not be a pleasant call to make. You do need to focus on yourself and telling OMW will certainly piss off your wife to a new level. I don't blame you for hesitating.
> 
> It's so unfortunate to find ourselves faced with these unbearable decisions, isn't it? Sometimes I can hardly believe this is my life...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If they come back positive, it would be easy enough to run DNA. Hers would be easy, just grab a hair from her brush. His would be harder to confirm, but OMW could help me with that if she wanted incontrivertible proof on her side.

Hell, maybe she'd offer to split the cost with me at that point.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Hmmm... I know different cultures have different views on infidelity, so that is an interesting detail. I'm probably in her time zone but too far away for a personal visit. I'd do it if I was though. There is something about you and your situation, Shamwow, that compels me to want to help and I do entertain a little affair-busting vigilante fantasy from time to time. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voiceofreason

> If they come back positive, it would be easy enough to run DNA. Hers would be easy, just grab a hair from her brush. His would be harder to confirm, but OMW could help me with that if she wanted incontrivertible proof on her side.


Even without his DNA, you can confirm that the DNA is not yours, which is really all that matters between you and W. Also, there certainly is a possibility that the panties come back negative or inconclusive--the gunky substance could just be some sort of discharge, which happens from time to time. If so, that might actually support her story that nothing happened in Vegas, due to the discharge problem. Who knows? The test will tell...


----------



## Saffron

Hopefully you'll muster the strength to call the OMW yourself Sham, because it's going to be more effective. She may ask questions to establish the credibility of your story that only you can answer. It took several minutes in a face to face confrontation for the OWH to get me to believe my H and his wife were having an affair. Then he still needed to convince me to accept the evidence he was offering. I still wish it would've been over the phone, in person was horrific.

I wouldn't worry about telling the OMW about the panties, it might actually be TMI for her at this point. She may think you're some sick pervert if you start talking about crusty underwear at the lab. I would've been appalled if the OWH had gone down that road in his explanation right away. I could hardly process the possibillity my H texted another woman inappropriately, let alone be the man to leave DNA on her underclothes.

Every day the OMW goes on not knowing the truth, is another day she's going to feel the fool after she finds it out. I look at our pics from last summer and see a naive foolish woman, each one tainted during the time period my H was having an affair. Also, any gift I received from my H during that time was returned, it no longer had the same meaning. D-day is painful no matter when it happens, however sometimes it's the little things that help. If the OMW finds out before Sept, then at least she doesn't have to think of September as another month she was played the fool.


----------



## Shamwow

girlfromipanema said:


> Hmmm... I know different cultures have different views on infidelity, so that is an interesting detail. I'm probably in her time zone but too far away for a personal visit. I'd do it if I was though. There is something about you and your situation, Shamwow, that compels me to want to help and I do entertain a little affair-busting vigilante fantasy from time to time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FYI - I'm not Samoan. I just know some guys out west.  thanks for your vigilante concern.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Saffron said:


> Hopefully you'll muster the strength to call the OMW yourself Sham, because it's going to be more effective. She may ask questions to establish the credibility of your story that only you can answer. It took several minutes in a face to face confrontation for the OWH to get me to believe my H and his wife were having an affair. Then he still needed to convince me to accept the evidence he was offering. I still wish it would've been over the phone, in person was horrific.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about telling the OMW about the panties, it might actually be TMI for her at this point. She may think you're some sick pervert if you start talking about crusty underwear at the lab. I would've been appalled if the OWH had gone down that road in his explanation right away. I could hardly process the possibillity my H texted another woman inappropriately, let alone be the man to leave DNA on her underclothes.
> 
> Every day the OMW goes on not knowing the truth, is another day she's going to feel the fool after she finds it out. I look at our pics from last summer and see a naive foolish woman, each one tainted during the time period my H was having an affair. Also, any gift I received from my H during that time was returned, it no longer had the same meaning. D-day is painful no matter when it happens, however sometimes it's the little things that help. If the OMW finds out before Sept, then at least she doesn't have to think of September as another month she was played the fool.


You guys are all right. I can't let my difficulty in contacting her be in the way of helping her as she enters this s**t abyss that is infidelity. I guess I should be glad I have her number, sack up, and get her the info that she needs (as I needed, but had to get on my own). What a piece of work this guy is (as well as my STBX). People have to learn to live with their mistakes...we all make them. This is just one I would never have expected and it sucks to face it. But that, as they say, is that. The reality is what it is. And if I have to live with it, so should he, however his W decides to handle it is up to her. I wish all parties luck in dealing with the fallout. Hasn't been pretty for me so far. 

Hit the gym for 2 hrs today. Jeezus that felt good. Then drank some scotch at the hotel bar and had a good chat with the recently divorced bartender. Joining the club I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

You mentioned that the girlfromipanema lived near the OMW. Ipanema is in Brazil. Is that where the OM is from?

Or is it time for my meds..

Cypress


----------



## thecw

Damn proud of you Sham. I don't envy what you are going through, but I do envy the way you are handling it and in some odd way should I ever go down this road again your situation gives me the strength to handle it better than I have in the past.


----------



## NotLikeYou

Damnit, can't just spectate any more, must add my 2 cents.

You have proof of infidelity, and proof on no remorse on the part of your STBXW.

If you're spending money on analyzing residue in panties, you ain't winning. It's not going to give you peace of mind, either way. It's not going to give you an advantage in divorce court. Any friends and acquaintances who hear about it are not going to think better of you for having done it. Pursuing it benefits you in no way whatsoever.

You already know everything you need to about her texts- she's texting the OM a helluva lot more than she is texting people to try to contact you. Spend as much time as you want to analyzing the content, but it's who she is texting and how much that is the crucial information that you need for your own purposes.

Although I have read this entire thread, it's 114 pages long and counting. You haven't mentioned your STBXW as being your first love or girlfriend- mentally, the place you want to work towards is where you feel about her, like you do about the women who came before her- relationships that didn't work out, but that hold no emotional power over you now.

You want to do this for your own well being, but it conveniently has the side effect of completely messing up your ex-partner. The opposite of love is indifference, not hatred, and it burns to know that you are irrelevant to someone who once loved you.

Also, take time to understand the 5 Stages of Grief, and keep in mind that you are still rocky, emotionally, and may not be as far along as you want to be.

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance

Again, acceptance is where you want to be, and you want to get there as quickly as possible for your own peace of mind. 

As far as the VAR goes, I'm not sure how eavesdropping will help you, other than that you will hear conversation that is emotionally painful to you, which will serve as motivation to continue the process of divorce. 

Lastly, I am going to respectfully disagree with the consensus on telling the OMW. While she may deserve to know, she probably won't thank you for telling her, and she may already know the score anyway. I humbly suggest that she should find out from your STBXW, not you.

My reasoning is this, and I don't believe any of the other commenters have made this analysis.

At one point, while she was traveling, she called you up crying, ready to come home, before she went ahead and hiked up her skirt in Vegas. Subsequently, you mentioned from her e-communications that her and the OM had been feuding, broken up twice, and generally having a drama-filled time of things. It is safe to say that their affair is not stable. 

At some point, the OM is going to have to fish, or cut bait. And everybody here knows what he's going to do, which, from what you have told us, is going to PISS YOUR STBXW OFF. I think we can all agree on what SHE will do at that point, assuming the OM doesn't screw up along the way and his wife discovers the affair on her own.

You avoid a bunch of drama and B.S. Your STBXW gets drenched in a new shower of it by her own hand (well, okay by her own communication to the OMW). 

You get to lean back, act all smug, and think to yourself "virtue is its own reward."

BTW, I am amazed at how well you are doing, and I neglected to mention that until now, after I first posted it. Just trying to, you know, add a little more perspective to the mix.


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> You mentioned that the girlfromipanema lived near the OMW. Ipanema is in Brazil. Is that where the OM is from?
> 
> Or is it time for my meds..
> 
> Cypress


Oh crap! I was thinking SoCal, a la where the song originated. My bad. Mixed up with Pasadena I guess...scotch at the bar tonight, sorry.


----------



## Mike11

The song originated in Brazil by Antonio Carlos Jobim if I am not mistaken ;-)


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> The song originated in Brazil by Antonio Carlos Jobim if I am not mistaken ;-)


Hence my Ipanema/Pasadena mixup. Mistaken song.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Hence my Ipanema/Pasadena mixup.


:smthumbup:


----------



## calif_hope

Maybe you were thinking about the Lil Old Lady From Pasadena.......

Stay strong Shamwow!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

NotLikeYou said:


> Damnit, can't just spectate any more, must add my 2 cents.
> 
> You have proof of infidelity, and proof on no remorse on the part of your STBXW.
> 
> If you're spending money on analyzing residue in panties, you ain't winning. It's not going to give you peace of mind, either way. It's not going to give you an advantage in divorce court. Any friends and acquaintances who hear about it are not going to think better of you for having done it. Pursuing it benefits you in no way whatsoever.
> 
> You already know everything you need to about her texts- she's texting the OM a helluva lot more than she is texting people to try to contact you. Spend as much time as you want to analyzing the content, but it's who she is texting and how much that is the crucial information that you need for your own purposes.
> 
> Although I have read this entire thread, it's 114 pages long and counting. You haven't mentioned your STBXW as being your first love or girlfriend- mentally, the place you want to work towards is where you feel about her, like you do about the women who came before her- relationships that didn't work out, but that hold no emotional power over you now.
> 
> You want to do this for your own well being, but it conveniently has the side effect of completely messing up your ex-partner. The opposite of love is indifference, not hatred, and it burns to know that you are irrelevant to someone who once loved you.
> 
> Also, take time to understand the 5 Stages of Grief, and keep in mind that you are still rocky, emotionally, and may not be as far along as you want to be.
> 
> 1) Denial
> 2) Anger
> 3) Bargaining
> 4) Depression
> 5) Acceptance
> 
> Again, acceptance is where you want to be, and you want to get there as quickly as possible for your own peace of mind.
> 
> As far as the VAR goes, I'm not sure how eavesdropping will help you, other than that you will hear conversation that is emotionally painful to you, which will serve as motivation to continue the process of divorce.
> 
> Lastly, I am going to respectfully disagree with the consensus on telling the OMW. While she may deserve to know, she probably won't thank you for telling her, and she may already know the score anyway. I humbly suggest that she should find out from your STBXW, not you.
> 
> My reasoning is this, and I don't believe any of the other commenters have made this analysis.
> 
> At one point, while she was traveling, she called you up crying, ready to come home, before she went ahead and hiked up her skirt in Vegas. Subsequently, you mentioned from her e-communications that her and the OM had been feuding, broken up twice, and generally having a drama-filled time of things. It is safe to say that their affair is not stable.
> 
> At some point, the OM is going to have to fish, or cut bait. And everybody here knows what he's going to do, which, from what you have told us, is going to PISS YOUR STBXW OFF. I think we can all agree on what SHE will do at that point, assuming the OM doesn't screw up along the way and his wife discovers the affair on her own.
> 
> You avoid a bunch of drama and B.S. Your STBXW gets drenched in a new shower of it by her own hand (well, okay by her own communication to the OMW).
> 
> You get to lean back, act all smug, and think to yourself "virtue is its own reward."
> 
> BTW, I am amazed at how well you are doing, and I neglected to mention that until now, after I first posted it. Just trying to, you know, add a little more perspective to the mix.


[Deep breath...]

Thanks. You made a lot of valid points. I really do mean that. Particularly everything past the first few points. But while I may be "doing things" well, I am not doing well. And, since my day has *sucked*, please forgive my upcoming excessive Caps and pent up rage as I go off for a sec...not directed at you, I think it's just time to vent again. No worries, I see my therapist tomorrow afternoon. 

For the record, the lab test was ordered, submitted and paid for a matter of hours before I found the damning texts. I was still in limbo. It was all still unbelievable to me. I knew I was being mistreated recently, but didn't have enough powder to put in the chamber and pull the trigger. And even though it was unbelievable to me, I confronted her with divorce two days before that, given what I knew then. Yes, I struck out the first time around. First time in the "threatening divorce" batting cage. I whiffed. I needed something, anything.

The lab results are coming no matter what. Should I not read the email, because it doesn't matter anymore? And no one knows about the lab test, except the viewers on this thread. Though, looks like there have been 84,000 some views...not good for secrecy I guess. Whoops.

Who gives a crap if she was my first love, she was my love for 8 1/2 years. I'm 34, of course she wasn't my first love. But she was the best love, and for a loooong time. I mean, I *married* her. May sound easy to let her go given what I've revealed here, but it's NOT, because we're talking about two months of shocking bs in 8 1/2 years. I dont claim to be perfect, I've laid out my faults in previous posts. What I've discovered has me questioning everything that was unquestionable. And what I've discovered makes it pretty clear to me that it really is just two months of the last 8 1/2 years. Her texts show it as an entirely new awakening to becoming a heartless w**** (due to a somewhat nebulous, drunken event on the road about two weeks before she came back in June), as opposed to the girl that would previously knock out Mike Tyson if I didn't see him coming at me. I've done what I needed to do since then. I gave her chances to talk. She stonewalled me. Rinse and Repeat..stonewall. Now I'm GONE. Turns out she doesn't give a s**t.

I am at Anger. Think I need to be there. I'm not sure how VAR will help me heal. I think I've stated that it will most likely not. And that I'm not sure I can even listen to it. But it's there, planted prior to me knowing the extent of what I know now. I may just throw it away, but given how I feel right now, I need to be angry a bit longer (2 weeks in...how long should it take? Prob a lot longer than that, given the complete reality 180 that we're talking about).

Analyzing her texts is what got me to the point of understanding what I had to do. They're horrible. Horrible. Not just the sexual parts, the discussions of ME. Her talking with D-Bag about what I'm not capable of, him calling me a "weak putz who doesn't know what he has". Him telling her she's "a sexual dynamo and he (me) ain't done s**t". And how would he know? He wouldn't, but she bought it and joined in. She compains about not getting laid ever again, and this starts two weeks prior to the end of a TEN WEEK TRIP that she chose to take. And this after we made love 3 times in the 36 hours before she left...and it was GOOD. SHE changed. This is not an epidemic over the last 8 years. I'm not close to perfect, but I've been in the ring for her. She did something wrong on the road, it changed her perspective on life, and she allowed some douche to talk poorly about me and make it "cool" for her to do the same. I lost her.

The majority of your post is great. But I am not in the mood to be told I am holding on to stuff that doesn't matter. I've left. And left her in the manner she deserves for her recent actions. Didn't even say goodbye. I've been hit with so much information in the last two weeks that I can't imagine doing more with it than I have. I ain't winning? Please. I lost 2 months ago, and didn't know it. But others did, and she did, and I'm not going down like that. I need time to accept this as my reality. 

Whew. Maybe I should ask the doc for some drugs tomorrow. Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Shamwow

calif_hope said:


> Maybe you were thinking about the Lil Old Lady From Pasadena.......
> 
> Stay strong Shamwow!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. Oops!


----------



## Eli-Zor

This is going to be a rollercoaster for you , when you do speak to the OM's wife be prepared to give her some of the evidence. Sham you are not at fault for her adultery, when you have settled let it be known that you have copies of all the text messages, and bluff your way through the rest. She does not know what you know and she is fishing, alluding to having evidence of what went on Vegas and elsewhere may stop her gaslighting you.

In the mean time understand that she and the OM will have been in contact to do damage control. Be firm with everyone , be specific , say the word adultery, do not hold back at the same time be hold your dignity.

It is common practice for a wayward to lie and deny even under the unmost duress and their bubble only pops when confronted with the hard truth. They will do everything to gaslight you, make out you do not understand them etc. You must protect yourself, if the OM's wife is not that receptive (she may already know or he may be telling her all sorts of stories) then plan a wider exposure to his parents and siblings. 

The above has nothing to do with malice , while today your wife may not be showing remorse and you are on a path of separation , there is always a chance of reconciliation later down the line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> [Deep breath...]
> 
> Thanks. You made a lot of valid points. I really do mean that. Particularly everything past the first few points. But while I may be "doing things" well, I am not doing well. And, since my day has *sucked*, please forgive my upcoming excessive Caps and pent up rage as I go off for a sec...not directed at you, I think it's just time to vent again. No worries, I see my therapist tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> For the record, the lab test was ordered, submitted and paid for a matter of hours before I found the damning texts. I was still in limbo. It was all still unbelievable to me. I knew I was being mistreated recently, but didn't have enough powder to put in the chamber and pull the trigger. And even though it was unbelievable to me, I confronted her with divorce two days before that, given what I knew then. Yes, I struck out the first time around. First time in the "threatening divorce" batting cage. I whiffed. I needed something, anything.
> 
> The lab results are coming no matter what. Should I not read the email, because it doesn't matter anymore? And no one knows about the lab test, except the viewers on this thread. Though, looks like there have been 84,000 some views...not good for secrecy I guess. Whoops.
> 
> Who gives a crap if she was my first love, she was my love for 8 1/2 years. I'm 34, of course she wasn't my first love. But she was the best love, and for a loooong time. I mean, I *married* her. May sound easy to let her go given what I've revealed here, but it's NOT, because we're talking about two months of shocking bs in 8 1/2 years. I dont claim to be perfect, I've laid out my faults in previous posts. What I've discovered has me questioning everything that was unquestionable. And what I've discovered makes it pretty clear to me that it really is just two months of the last 8 1/2 years. Her texts show it as an entirely new awakening to becoming a heartless w**** (due to a somewhat nebulous, drunken event on the road about two weeks before she came back in June), as opposed to the girl that would previously knock out Mike Tyson if I didn't see him coming at me. I've done what I needed to do since then. I gave her chances to talk. She stonewalled me. Rinse and Repeat..stonewall. Now I'm GONE. Turns out she doesn't give a s**t.
> 
> I am at Anger. Think I need to be there. I'm not sure how VAR will help me heal. I think I've stated that it will most likely not. And that I'm not sure I can even listen to it. But it's there, planted prior to me knowing the extent of what I know now. I may just throw it away, but given how I feel right now, I need to be angry a bit longer (2 weeks in...how long should it take? Prob a lot longer than that, given the complete reality 180 that we're talking about).
> 
> Analyzing her texts is what got me to the point of understanding what I had to do. They're horrible. Horrible. Not just the sexual parts, the discussions of ME. Her talking with D-Bag about what I'm not capable of, him calling me a "weak putz who doesn't know what he has". Him telling her she's "a sexual dynamo and he (me) ain't done s**t". And how would he know? He wouldn't, but she bought it and joined in. She compains about not getting laid ever again, and this starts two weeks prior to the end of a TEN WEEK TRIP that she chose to take. And this after we made love 3 times in the 36 hours before she left...and it was GOOD. SHE changed. This is not an epidemic over the last 8 years. I'm not close to perfect, but I've been in the ring for her. She did something wrong on the road, it changed her perspective on life, and she allowed some douche to talk poorly about me and make it "cool" for her to do the same. I lost her.
> 
> The majority of your post is great. But I am not in the mood to be told I am holding on to stuff that doesn't matter. I've left. And left her in the manner she deserves for her recent actions. Didn't even say goodbye. I've been hit with so much information in the last two weeks that I can't imagine doing more with it than I have. I ain't winning? Please. I lost 2 months ago, and didn't know it. But others did, and she did, and I'm not going down like that. I need time to accept this as my reality.
> 
> Whew. Maybe I should ask the doc for some drugs tomorrow. Sorry for the rant.


.25 or .5 xanax would be helpful right now!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

nothing wrong with some anti-anxiety meds during the most stressful time of your life, take care of yourself first and foremost


----------



## MrK

Voiceofreason said:


> ...that might actually support her story that nothing happened in Vegas...


She lied about about going to Vegas to meet a man with whom she was having an affair with the intent of having sex with him. It's IMPOSSIBLE to support her theory that nothing happened in Vegas. It "happened in Vegas" before her plane even touched down there.


----------



## Chaparral

Stonewall said:


> .25 or .5 xanax would be helpful right now!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Regarding Dirty Ba$tards wife not being on facebook. I can't put my wife's name on my profile page because she doesn't have an acct. 

Right now Dirty Ba$tard is sitting home banging his wife with another mans wife waiting in the wings. He must be thinking of himself as King of the bedsheets right now. He's burning up their phones talking smack against Shamwow. Meanwhile, Shamwow is holed up in a hotel suffering ,drinking scotch.

If it were me, I would be on the next plane to Pasedena or where ever. Hand deliver all my info to Dirty Ba$tards wife and watch his sh!t crash and burn. 

I would then come back and work on wife and take her away from him too. Talk about me like he's done Shamwow? Throw me under the bus so he can bang my wife. I would show him the alpha and omega of an alpha male and show my wife too. 

Good Luck Sham ,praying for you 

Chap


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, other than the drunken night out with your W when she got back, you have done EVERYTHING right here. This is so completely and brutally hard. You sent those panties to the lab very early on, and while I agree the results don't matter when it comes to your decision to leave, I DO think it matters for other reasons. 

First, Sham deserves to know if they had sex. Since she will never admit it, he's going about it another way. Also, the OMW deserves to know this as well, for her own protection.

Regarding the "weak putz" comment. This falls in line with everything else. Sham's W is definitely alpha - her whole life she has rebelled against boundaries that were set for her - very take charge, arrogant. The OM is playing into that, calling Sham weak, making her even more alpha and completely righteous about her actions.

So NOW, Sham is behaving in a VERY alpha way. The package he left, the taking off, the going dark. This is rocking her world right now, and she is maybe feeling more attracted to Sham as a result, confused. This does not compute. Cracks are forming. 

Sham, don't feel bad at all. Stay the course.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham is suffering internally Chap, but anyone would. What matters to the OM and his W isn't what he's feeling inside, but what he is SHOWING. Which is, NOT begging, NOT crying. He is REJECTING her behavior flat out and going dark. They are scrambling wondering what shoes are going to drop. If he goes around chasing them and threatening them, it comes off as desperate and that he cares. He is doing exactly what he needs to do.


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Sham is suffering internally Chap, but anyone would. What matters to the OM and his W isn't what he's feeling inside, but what he is SHOWING. Which is, NOT begging, NOT crying. He is REJECTING her behavior flat out and going dark. They are scrambling wondering what shoes are going to drop. If he goes around chasing them and threatening them, it comes off as desperate and that he cares. He is doing exactly what he needs to do.


On the other hand, I don't see any reason to think Dirty Ba$tard has anything at all to worry about. It's been going on for days. He thinks things couldn't be working out better. He's cake eating and now has Sham out of the way. Just saying. Can't argue. Got a go to work.


----------



## aeg512

Sham, you need to remember that subconsciously your WW knew what she was up to was wrong and that is the reason she came up with all the negatives she could. The OM was more than happy to feed the fire in order to get into her pants.


----------



## morituri

Sham,

Is there a way to find out if the OM is a freelancer or if he's a full time employee of a company? I ask because if he's the latter, you can report him to his company's HR department regarding his activities so they can audit his traveling expenses. A few months ago the CEO of a huge multinational corporation was fired because he failed to report money he used on his mistress. If it can happen to the top dog of a company, what do you think they'll do to a yapping chihuahua?

If you can do a full Count of Monte Cristo on him, go for it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

morituri said:


> Sham,
> 
> Is there a way to find out if the OM is a freelancer or if he's a full time employee of a company? I ask because if he's the latter, you can report him to his company's HR department regarding his activities so they can audit his traveling expenses. A few months ago the CEO of a huge multinational corporation was fired because he failed to report money he used on his mistress. If it can happen to the top dog of a company, what do you think they'll do to a yapping chihuahua?
> 
> If you can do a full Count of Monte Cristo on him, go for it.


the week before vegas, OM was in a hotel room next to SW's wife. I think SW mentioned that he didn't need to be there for work. It would behoove him to inform the company as it's likely he used their expense account for his trip


----------



## aug

Sham, the anger stage is necessary in order for you to move on and is psychological healthy for you. 

If you can accept that anger is a necessary step for you, then you are on your way to healing.


The panties, the VAR, these are all additional info that can help you get closure


----------



## Shamwow

Hey y'all. Yeah, angry night. All good. Scotch did me no good I guess.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, you might want to get out of that hotel for awhile, take your car and drive for a couple hundred miles. It's so therapeutic to do that. You said you were a Twins fan, so I assume Minnesota somewhere, go find a lake and skip rocks or something. Get outside while it's still beautiful out (I am in the midwest also - Sox fan, look out). Sitting in a hotel room is brutal for too long - one room, nowhere to go but the lobby, etc. 

It's awesome you went to the gym though - but getting outside will really help your mood. I was in Las Vegas on business (ironically) when I discovered my wife's EA. Had to be in the hotel room for a few hours and it was the worst. I never want to go back there now. Outside wasn't an option because I then had to stand behind a booth at a conference the whole next day. Worst day of my whole life, without question, standing there, greeting people, knowing what I knew. If I could have gone outside for the day, gotten away from people, I totally would have.


----------



## Shamwow

So...curious to hear what you would do with this morning's situation.

She texted me this morning saying: "Any chance you can drop off some dog food today? I have no car and no money".


Another pity play. This time going for my heartstrings by involving the pups. But also a power play. Yes, they need to eat. There is still $250 in the joint checking, so she has money. Guessing friends have been taking her on errands the last few days, so she at least has access to a car. But I think she's doing one of a few things and I'm not sure the best way to handle it quite yet:

- She's playing the "abandoning children/bad father" angle (just with our dogs, as we have no kids).

- She wants to know if I still have my same cell phone and am receiving her messages

- She wants to know if I am in town

- She wants to know if she can make me do something, ANYTHING, right now

- She wants to ambush me if I actually do show up, and give her access to me face to face to unleash a verbal sh*tnami.


So...then I get a message 20 mins later from my friend (whose wife is the one closest to my wife, mentioned yesterday), asking "Are you alive...awake...doing okay?"

Of course I need to let him know that all is well with me, thanks. And I know it'll be relayed to my wife.

I have some options with the dog food thing (please jump in if I'm missing anything):

1. I can do nothing, and let her find a ride to buy dogfood with the money that's clearly in the joint account

2. I can ask a friend (friend's W from above? She's the one that emailed me she was there for me in anything I may need yesterday) to check on our dogs, get them something if they need it

3. I can have food delivered from our local dog store, paid for from the joint acct.

4. Ask friend to PICK UP DOGS for me, as she apparently "isn't able to take care of them". (this would involve me having to stay somewhere else that allows dogs, current place does not)

5. Get the food, drop off, ring doorbell and run like hell. Kidding. Just can't think of any more options.


Any takers?


----------



## karole

SW, I think your best response would be simply no response. She is not going to let the dogs starve. Just a ploy.


----------



## Dadof3

Quite frankly, reading this - I think she wants to talk to you - potentially apologize. Its a gut feeling, of course, she's still fogged - but I think she is missing you BAD.


----------



## golfergirl

karole said:


> SW, I think your best response would be simply no response. She is not going to let the dogs starve. Just a ploy.


I agree. She loves dogd as much as you do, she won't let them starve. Dumb ploy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stoney96

Sham,

Stay dark, let her figure it out how to feed the dogs. She has many options to do that.

After all, she wasn't worried about them eating when she was flat-backing in Vegas.

JT


----------



## golfergirl

Dadof3 said:


> Quite frankly, reading this - I think she wants to talk to you - potentially apologize. Its a gut feeling, of course, she's still fogged - but I think she is missing you BAD.


It's past point of 'I'm sorry'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotLikeYou

karole said:


> SW, I think your best response would be simply no response. She is not going to let the dogs starve. Just a ploy.


:iagree:

Please consider that her text communications do not help you (other than the fact that she STILL acknowledges no wrong-doing, but if you are determined to get a divorce, you don't want to see contrition anyway) and think about blocking them so she can't contact you at all.

And for God's sake, if you're having angry nights with Scotch, avoid Tequila at all costs.

And now, a joke for you.

Satan got bored torturing souls in hell, and decided to come up to earth and terrorize the living. After he wandered around for awhile, he came upon a small town church, filled with worshipers for the Sunday service.

Satan burst through the doors, and panic ensued. People were screaming, crying, and getting out of the building any way they could. Satan was pretty happy, until he noticed that an old man was still in the church, sitting quietly in the front row.

This made the devil angry, and he stormed up to the front, and said to the old man,

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

Old man says, "Yes I do."

This takes Satan aback, but after a moment he says,

"WELL, AREN'T YOU AFRAID OF ME?"

The old man says, "No sir, I am not."

Satan is thoroughly confused now, and he asks the obvious question-

"WHY NOT????"

Old man: "Because I've been married to your sister for 53 years......."


----------



## WhereAmI

This is a tough one. Out of all the options, I think number 3 will serve you best in the long run. I believe her goal is to use the "abandonment card." Number three takes care of the animals and gives you proof (receipt) that you're not neglecting your responsibilities. 

If you're less concerned with her bad-mouthing you then ignoring her altogether is the best response. She can figure this out on her own, guaranteed. The major positive here is that she learns she can no longer rely on you for anything... Now I'm not sure about #3 being the best. LOL

I don't think this is make or break as long as you don't come face to face with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stunner

She just wants to talk to you....and I'm not even so sure its to release a **** storm on you either....shes quite sly

The best action is no action


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> 3. I can have food delivered from our local dog store, paid for from the joint acct.


this is best IMO

even if it does verify that you are reading texts you can still ignore her calls and stupid stuff


----------



## Gabriel

Who cares if she's missing him? She wasn't missing him when she was having cyber sex with the OM now was she? Or on the 10 week trip she took. 

I think one of two options - I would eliminate the others if it were me.

1) no response - she loves the dogs, there's some money in the account, she'll figure it out.

2) your idea of having the dog food store deliver it, paid out of the joint account

Do not go over there and drop it off yourself. 

As far as your friend is concerned, I would actually respond and tell him you aren't being forthcoming with him because his wife is your wife's friend, and you don't want anything getting back to your wife. Tell him you are alive, and for now, that's all you want to tell him for this reason - that you appreciate him trying to reach out, and in due time you guys can talk again. I would even tell your friend to relay to your wife you are alive and well, and that's all she needs to know for now.

I mean think about it from their perspective. You have vanished off the face of the earth after experiencing the most traumatic thing you've probably ever experienced (maybe, don't know your whole life story). It's been a few days. They are starting to freak out that either you have run off forever, done something dangerous to yourself, etc, etc. 

You've been dark for what 3-4 days now? The effect is obvious - if I were in your shoes I would probably throw a very small bone to them about now - just tell them you are alive and well, and that's it. No explanations.


----------



## WhereAmI

I think telling his friend that he's not responding because of his wife is foolish. His response may get back to her and he wants to project the image of only caring for himself now- like she's an afterthought. Mentioning his wife makes NC almost seem vengeful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

She is trying to get you involved in her drama. And its very possible she wants to talk to you about your leaving. I'm sure it will be a crying pity party on her side. 

My concern is that she is trying to manipulate your friends and common friends. It may be that she is trying to hurt you by driving away those close to you. She is definitely lying to every one, claiming you are the bad guy.

Some of these friends may decide they don't want to get involved in the drama, and pull away from you both. You need the support of others right now, so be careful.

My advice would be to go to your house and get the dogs. She won't be able to manipulate you with them again. You might ask a friend to care for them for a short while. 

This will mean confronting her directly. You don't need to listen to her explanations or get involved in her pity party. Ignore anything she says. Show her your anger and show her your strength. Tell her off in a decisive, clear and professional manner. Tell her its really over, that your moving on, and that she needs to stay the f*ck out of your life.

Cypress


----------



## crossbar

I'm a sucker for animals and besides the dogs didn't do anything wrong. 

I would suggest that you have the local pet store deliver the dog food to the house. The dogs get fed and happy and this will piss her off to no end. 

Sorry, feeling a little vindictive today....


----------



## Gabriel

I was under the impression this guy was his friend - and this would be a guy friend-to-guy friend conversation. Just my opinion if I were in his shoes. 

I don't see the harm in saying, "Hey friend, as you know already, I'm not talking to my wife right now, and since your wife and her are so close, I'll have to catch up with you later on. But I'm totally fine, don't worry."

Even if that got back to Sham's wife, what harm would it do? She already knows he's not talking to her. No new info there.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> So...curious to hear what you would do with this morning's situation.
> 
> She texted me this morning saying: "Any chance you can drop off some dog food today? I have no car and no money".
> 
> 
> Another pity play. This time going for my heartstrings by involving the pups. But also a power play. Yes, they need to eat. There is still $250 in the joint checking, so she has money. Guessing friends have been taking her on errands the last few days, so she at least has access to a car. But I think she's doing one of a few things and I'm not sure the best way to handle it quite yet:
> 
> - She's playing the "abandoning children/bad father" angle (just with our dogs, as we have no kids).
> 
> - She wants to know if I still have my same cell phone and am receiving her messages
> 
> - She wants to know if I am in town
> 
> - She wants to know if she can make me do something, ANYTHING, right now
> 
> - She wants to ambush me if I actually do show up, and give her access to me face to face to unleash a verbal sh*tnami.
> 
> 
> So...then I get a message 20 mins later from my friend (whose wife is the one closest to my wife, mentioned yesterday), asking "Are you alive...awake...doing okay?"
> 
> Of course I need to let him know that all is well with me, thanks. And I know it'll be relayed to my wife.
> 
> I have some options with the dog food thing (please jump in if I'm missing anything):
> 
> 1. I can do nothing, and let her find a ride to buy dogfood with the money that's clearly in the joint account
> 
> 2. I can ask a friend (friend's W from above? She's the one that emailed me she was there for me in anything I may need yesterday) to check on our dogs, get them something if they need it
> 
> 3. I can have food delivered from our local dog store, paid for from the joint acct.
> 
> 4. Ask friend to PICK UP DOGS for me, as she apparently "isn't able to take care of them". (this would involve me having to stay somewhere else that allows dogs, current place does not)
> 
> 5. Get the food, drop off, ring doorbell and run like hell. Kidding. Just can't think of any more options.
> 
> 
> Any takers?



As you say, she is testing the waters,she wants to engage you personally Strongly suggest Don't go there personally not good 

Engage your friend wife or your friend to go get dog food 
for the dog 

play the game on your terms on on hers you are out of this game


----------



## golfergirl

Mike11 said:


> As you say, she is testing the waters,she wants to engage you personally Strongly suggest Don't go there personally not good
> 
> Engage your friend wife or your friend to go get dog food
> for the dog
> 
> play the game on your terms on on hers you are out of this game


I hate playing into her game in any way. She has money so it's not about the dogs. However you need to do it that does not encounter responding or seeing her that gives you comfort is my vote.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

This may be a question for the lawyer. You don't want to be seen as abandoning the dogs when it comes time to split up the household, but you also don't want them used as a power play ploy by your wife.

Of course she can figure out how to feed the dogs, she's not going to let them starve or herself for that matter. She may have already emptied the joint account and doesn't want to use that money for the dogs. Instead, she wants you to take care of it, like you probably did in the past. You taking care of the situation will give her some odd sense of comfort that you listened and solved a problem she faced. 

The best option would be to remove the dogs from her care and either stay somewhere with them or ask a friend to watch them. If she's unable to afford food for the dogs, then she shouldn't be taking care of them at this time. I would send someone else to get the dogs. If she doesn't want to give them up, at least get "your" dog, otherwise you may not get the opportunity to again.


----------



## washburn

Shamwow said:


> So...curious to hear what you would do with this morning's situation.
> 
> She texted me this morning saying: "Any chance you can drop off some dog food today? I have no car and no money".
> 
> 
> Another pity play. This time going for my heartstrings by involving the pups. But also a power play. Yes, they need to eat. There is still $250 in the joint checking, so she has money. Guessing friends have been taking her on errands the last few days, so she at least has access to a car. But I think she's doing one of a few things and I'm not sure the best way to handle it quite yet:
> 
> - She's playing the "abandoning children/bad father" angle (just with our dogs, as we have no kids).
> 
> - She wants to know if I still have my same cell phone and am receiving her messages
> 
> - She wants to know if I am in town
> 
> - She wants to know if she can make me do something, ANYTHING, right now
> 
> - She wants to ambush me if I actually do show up, and give her access to me face to face to unleash a verbal sh*tnami.
> 
> 
> So...then I get a message 20 mins later from my friend (whose wife is the one closest to my wife, mentioned yesterday), asking "Are you alive...awake...doing okay?"
> 
> Of course I need to let him know that all is well with me, thanks. And I know it'll be relayed to my wife.
> 
> I have some options with the dog food thing (please jump in if I'm missing anything):
> 
> 1. I can do nothing, and let her find a ride to buy dogfood with the money that's clearly in the joint account
> 
> 2. I can ask a friend (friend's W from above? She's the one that emailed me she was there for me in anything I may need yesterday) to check on our dogs, get them something if they need it
> 
> 3. I can have food delivered from our local dog store, paid for from the joint acct.
> 
> 4. Ask friend to PICK UP DOGS for me, as she apparently "isn't able to take care of them". (this would involve me having to stay somewhere else that allows dogs, current place does not)
> 
> 5. Get the food, drop off, ring doorbell and run like hell. Kidding. Just can't think of any more options.
> 
> 
> Any takers?


Hmm...I think you gotta do something. She will say that you are neglecting your duties to your dogs (and are a dbag cause of that) if you dont However dont directly do something. Its a slippery slope. If you place dog food there or deliver dog food for instance she might say next that she herself needs groceries or the power was cut off. I think you outta tell a friend (your mutual friend?) that they should tell your wife this: Tell her to stop contacting me, in regards to the dogs and her welfare there is money in the joint account she can use, remind her of this. When I can, which will be soon, I will come pick up my dog and the rest of my stuff, after that the house and everything in it is hers. I cant help her with that.

Something like that, short and to the point.


----------



## Shaggy

Sham send the dogs two months worth of food. No note no other details.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

I would probably have the dog food delivered and not involve friends at this time. My response to friend's text would be a simple, "doing fine, thanks for checking in."

Sham, her world is unraveling and your being dark is making things very intense for her. I'm getting some satisfaction from that, I'll admit.

We'll blame the scotch on your geographical mix up. I am much closer to Pasadena (a few hours) than Ipanema. 

By the way, my interpretation of your wife's text to friend "how do you recover from that?" would be how would Sham recover from the craziness you saw. She's definitely having second thoughts about her actions. I don't see her actions as necessarily an exit affair. I think she got caught up in the excitement of another man's attention, has poor boundary issues and obvious self-image problems (which seems so emotionally immature for a woman of 37 - just a year younger than me). 

Hope you have a good day.


----------



## WhereAmI

Shaggy said:


> Sham send the dogs two months worth of food. No note no other details.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shows he doesn't intend to come back. Genius!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

These are questions that a lawyer should be answering because, technically, Shamwow is still married; therefore, he still has a household to run. So, if he doessn't contribute to the household while he's still married, it might hurt him in the divorce if they go for an abandonment angle. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I think Sham needs to ask those questions with his lawyer....i.e. does he send her half the payment for the mortage, half the cost of the monthly utilities, half the cost of the home owners insurance....stuff like that.


----------



## Saffron

Also, I don't know how your finances are right now, but you could kennel the dogs for a week or two until you find a place that takes dogs. There are plenty of good kennels and many will let dogs that share a household share a kennel too. You can even order extra "attention" time for them for a little extra fee. Yes in a way you would be responding to her text, but definitely not in the way she intended or wanted.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Stay dark, she has money in the bank. I do however suggest you draw up a couple of letters; you may bulk at this it will help tell others that you are alive, I hesitate to use the word well. Send one to her parents, tell them you love them as your parents but you are no longer on a position to be their son in law due to their daughters adultey and derogatory statements she has made about you to her affair man and name him by name, add extra words in from you. Send this off pronto by fast mail , it confirms in writing she is committing adultry and with whom. I am aware you spoke to them, not knowing your conversation I suspect you may have given them a very summarised form of words.

Do the same to the friend , similiar words this time ask if he is willing to be an intermediary. Send him a text or email , key messages in the communications , the OM's name , the implication is you know what she said about you.

There is logic in the above, it closes off any further gaslighting attempts, it gives out the OM's name and it reveals you know a lot more than she suspects you do. 

Have you exposed to the OW ?

All of the above are designed to give you options , don't sit and mull over them and torment yourself , you have made and acted out some tough decisions already do not waver now.

Leave the door slightly open, at the moment you may feel you cannot see a future with her , your wife may still come round then and only then do you sit and talk about a way forward.

Complete the exposure to the OM's wife
Send the in-laws a specific letter naming the OM and stating she is committing adultery 
Send a mail/text the friend with a similar message to you in-laws , only if he commits to being an IM do you speak to him, if he wavers stay dark with him as well and seek another IM.

This is a highly modified Plan B from marriagebuilders , buy the 'surviving an affair' by Harley , there are guidelines therein how to deal with a wayward and what to do to protect yourself .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Eli-Zor said:


> Stay dark, she has money in the bank. I do however suggest you draw up a couple of letters; you may bulk at this it will help tell others that you are alive, I hesitate to use the word well. Send one to her parents, tell them you love them as your parents but you are no longer on a position to be their son in law due to their daughters adultey and derogatory statements she has made about you to her affair man and name him by name, add extra words in from you. Send this off pronto by fast mail , it confirms in writing she is committing adultry and with whom. I am aware you spoke to them, not knowing your conversation I suspect you may have given them a very summarised form of words.
> 
> Do the same to the friend , similiar words this time ask if he is willing to be an intermediary. Send him a text or email , key messages in the communications , the OM's name , the implication is you know what she said about you.
> 
> There is logic in the above, it closes off any further gaslighting attempts, it gives out the OM's name and it reveals you know a lot more than she suspects you do.
> 
> Have you exposed to the OW ?
> 
> All of the above are designed to give you options , don't sit and mull over them and torment yourself , you have made and acted out some tough decisions already do not waver now.
> 
> Leave the door slightly open, at the moment you may feel you cannot see a future with her , your wife may still come round then and only then do you sit and talk about a way forward.
> 
> Complete the exposure to the OM's wife
> Send the in-laws a specific letter naming the OM and stating she is committing adultery
> Send a mail/text the friend with a similar message to you in-laws , only if he commits to being an IM do you speak to him, if he wavers stay dark with him as well and seek another IM.
> 
> This is a highly modified Plan B from marriagebuilders , buy the 'surviving an affair' by Harley , there are guidelines therein how to deal with a wayward and what to do to protect yourself .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Priceless:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## piqued

Sham,
On the dogfood, I'd have the store deliver it. If you start involving friends to run errands as a go between your wife and yourself they will feel uncomfortable and tire of that real quick. No one wants to be involved in a he said, she said. I'd save their (friends) support for when you really need something.

Also, the point above about questions for the lawyer is a good one. Have you filed the papers? If not do so now. If by some reason a R occurs you can cancel the process at any time. But, by not filing you are, in fact, 1/2 responsible for all of her (and your household's) expenses. Forget her BS about she'll sign when she can hire a lawyer; this is now on your timetable, not hers. Get that paperwork in!!!

Then, ask the lawyer how you should be handling the mortgage, etc. since the 1st of the month is later this week.

Don't respond directly to her. Do let your friend know that you are alive, and handing in there...thanks for checking, etc.


----------



## crossbar

piqued said:


> Sham,
> On the dogfood, I'd have the store deliver it. If you start involving friends to run errands as a go between your wife and yourself they will feel uncomfortable and tire of that real quick. No one wants to be involved in a he said, she said. I'd save their (friends) support for when you really need something.
> 
> Also, the point above about questions for the lawyer is a good one. Have you filed the papers? If not do so now. If by some reason a R occurs you can cancel the process at any time. But, by not filing you are, in fact, 1/2 responsible for all of her (and your household's) expenses. Forget her BS about she'll sign when she can hire a lawyer; this is now on your timetable, not hers. Get that paperwork in!!!
> 
> Then, ask the lawyer how you should be handling the mortgage, etc. since the 1st of the month is later this week.
> 
> Don't respond directly to her. Do let your friend know that you are alive, and handing in there...thanks for checking, etc.


Yep! totally agree! Let your lawyer do the talking, that's what you're paying him/her for anyway.


----------



## F-102

Well, Sham-in regards to the dogs, I agree with everyone that the store could deliver it (get confirmation of the delivery), but don't go over yourself. Could be an emotional-or even physical-ambush.

Say, here's a twist: have your D lawyer deliver the food!


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> These are questions that a lawyer should be answering because, technically, Shamwow is still married; therefore, he still has a household to run. So, if he doessn't contribute to the household while he's still married, it might hurt him in the divorce if they go for an abandonment angle. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I think Sham needs to ask those questions with his lawyer....i.e. does he send her half the payment for the mortage, half the cost of the monthly utilities, half the cost of the home owners insurance....stuff like that.


Just sent my lawyer an email asking him these things, my general household responsibilities going forward, as well as the dog issue (in terms of any potential "abandonment" argument that might keep me from getting my dog in the future). I told him I paid the stack of bills on the table before I walked, mortgage, utilities, CCs, whatever was there, so I didn't "abandon" her (don't give me s**t about this please, last thing I need is our house to go into foreclosure or something, or CC companies calling me 5 times a day for a payment). But as time goes on, clearly I will have to participate in running the house in some way, throughout this process.

We'll see what he says.


----------



## piqued

Sham,

Whatever happened with those "unknown" 800 number calls you were getting yesterday? Did they call back, and did you find out what the names of the outfits were?


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

If you decide to stay dark and to do a plan B, you should send her a modified plan B letter. And you need an intermediary to handle communication. She can only contact you through the intermediary. The intermediary will filter out the damaging parts and send you only what is necessary.

The If the marriage is truly over for you, you plan B letter might go like this:



> WW,
> 
> This correspondence it is the most difficult thing that I have ever had to do in my life
> 
> This situation has become too excruciating for me to endure. Knowing that you chose to commit adultery has torn me to pieces. At times the thoughts are unbearable. Your cruel and fabricated portrayal of me to others is unforgivable. The betrayal, lies and emotional manipulation has ended any love I had for you.
> 
> End all contact with me. Please respect my decision to permanently separate from you.
> Please do not call me, send e-mails, or SMSs.
> 
> If you have any emergency matters, please direct any communication through <loyal friends name here> who will handle everything completely businesslike, and he will also be completely impartial and non-judgmental.
> 
> I loved you when I first laid eyes on you and when I married you. But your actions have
> left me no choice, but to end our marriage.
> 
> Good luck on your future endeavors.
> 
> Sham


Or if you think reconciliation is even slightly possible it would be like this:



> _My Dearest Darling W,
> 
> This correspondence to you comes from my heart and it is the most difficult thing that I've ever had to do in my life.
> 
> I love you with all of my heart. Even with all that has happened, I still consider you my best friend, I still believe that you are the most wonderful woman I've ever known, I am still emotionally and physically attracted to you, and I still believe that we are meant to spend forever together. However, every time I see you or talk to you part of my heart is torn because I want so much for things to be different. I want so much more than you are able to give to me right now.
> 
> I have tried so hard to stay connected to you even under these extremely difficult circumstances and I have treasured every contact that we have had. However, the current situation has become too excruciating for me to endure. Knowing that you are in contact with someone else tears me to pieces. At times the thoughts are unbearable. Yet I still have hope that one day we can truly recover the good times we have had and create a new life together that represents total commitment to each other, caring about and meeting each others needs, spending time together, protecting each others feelings, and complete trust and honesty.
> 
> Please respect my decision to separate from you in this way.
> 
> Please do not call me, send e-mails, or SMSs unless you have ended contact with OM permanently and have decided that you want to work on building a new relationship with me, following a recovery plan.
> 
> If you have any emergency matters, please direct any communication through <loyal friend name her> who will handle everything completely businesslike, and he will also be completely impartial and non-judgmental.
> 
> It is not that I don't want you in my life...I want that more than anything...but I want all of you and I want you all to myself. Sharing you is just too painful and not something any husband could or should agree to.
> 
> If you should decide that you want to work on building a new relationship with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. I hope that one day you will decide to allow us to begin again. I want to grow old with you.
> 
> I loved you when I first laid eyes on you and when I married you. I continue to love you to this very day. I will love you forever.
> 
> your loving and adoring husband,
> 
> Sham _


Cypress


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> Just sent my lawyer an email asking him these things, my general household responsibilities going forward, as well as the dog issue (in terms of any potential "abandonment" argument that might keep me from getting my dog in the future). I told him I paid the stack of bills on the table before I walked, mortgage, utilities, CCs, whatever was there, so I didn't "abandon" her (don't give me s**t about this please, last thing I need is our house to go into foreclosure or something, or CC companies calling me 5 times a day for a payment). But as time goes on, clearly I will have to participate in running the house in some way, throughout this process.
> 
> We'll see what he says.


 Oh, no one is giving you sh*t on this. This is a very real issue. No one is gonna think you're "helping her out", you're doing what you're supposed to do until your lawyer tells you otherwise. If paying half now protects you in the long run. Then pay it. It would be better to do that, than to have her lawyer tear you apart in court because, " You left poor old WW high and dry!" You won't win any points with the judge on that.


----------



## Shamwow

piqued said:


> Sham,
> 
> Whatever happened with those "unknown" 800 number calls you were getting yesterday? Did they call back, and did you find out what the names of the outfits were?


I answered them today. Nothing weird. One was for a newspaper subscription (why the call came from a different state, I have no idea), the other was offering a mortgage refi. Only reason I was suspicious is because I so rarely ever get those calls on my *cell*. Usually just the home phone. 

Ohhhhh...but I set my land line to forward to my cell before I left. That explains it.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Just sent my lawyer an email asking him these things, my general household responsibilities going forward, as well as the dog issue (in terms of any potential "abandonment" argument that might keep me from getting my dog in the future). *I told him I paid the stack of bills on the table before I walked, mortgage, utilities, CCs, whatever was there, so I didn't "abandon" her *(don't give me s**t about this please, last thing I need is our house to go into foreclosure or something, or CC companies calling me 5 times a day for a payment). But as time goes on, clearly I will have to participate in running the house in some way, throughout this process.
> 
> We'll see what he says.



You are a nice and decent person. Sad that she treated you poorly.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Just sent my lawyer an email asking him these things, my general household responsibilities going forward, as well as the dog issue (in terms of any potential "abandonment" argument that might keep me from getting my dog in the future). I told him I paid the stack of bills on the table before I walked, mortgage, utilities, CCs, whatever was there, so I didn't "abandon" her (don't give me s**t about this please, last thing I need is our house to go into foreclosure or something, or CC companies calling me 5 times a day for a payment). But as time goes on, clearly I will have to participate in running the house in some way, throughout this process.
> 
> We'll see what he says.


Why would we give u crap? You call the shots. It's smart for you to keep things running - it's your ass too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> Why would we give u crap? You call the shots. It's smart for you to keep things running - it's your ass too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Clearly you wouldn't...just an afterthought as I was typing. Just thought I might get a comment or two about "Dude, you paid ALL the bills before you left? Way to help her out!", so wanted to preempt.


----------



## Dadof3

girlfromipanema said:


> I would probably have the dog food delivered and not involve friends at this time. My response to friend's text would be a simple, "doing fine, thanks for checking in."
> 
> Sham, her world is unraveling and your being dark is making things very intense for her. I'm getting some satisfaction from that, I'll admit.
> 
> We'll blame the scotch on your geographical mix up. I am much closer to Pasadena (a few hours) than Ipanema.
> 
> By the way, my interpretation of your wife's text to friend "how do you recover from that?" would be how would Sham recover from the craziness you saw. She's definitely having second thoughts about her actions. I don't see her actions as necessarily an exit affair. I think she got caught up in the excitement of another man's attention, has poor boundary issues and obvious self-image problems (which seems so emotionally immature for a woman of 37 - just a year younger than me).
> 
> Hope you have a good day.


I find myself agreeing with this for some reason.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sham : 

The previous post I made
the plan B letter sample
the postings made from various forum members
and the legal advice are all sound

The legal advice is to protect you, in simple terms if she wants 50-50 she pays 50%, if she stays in the house alone she pays all the utilities. 

If she cannot pay 50% on the mortgage your attorney has to ensure your wife signs over a greater portion of the asset value to you e.g. 75%, she has to sign this all before you make any further payments. If she declines you sell the house and clear the mortgage debt or you let it foreclose. The other reason to get legal advice is you do not want any of her debts.

The Plan B letter may be contrary to what you are thinking today, it is a proven process from a number from pro marriage sites and it set out your thoughts, you are not denying you love her you are stating the truth and no matter what she says or does it is in writing. Some waywards have kept the letter for years and ultimately regretted what they had done, in other cases it was one of the many cogs in helping recover the marriage.


----------



## girlfromipanema

I'll just make a couple comments about Plan B. I think it can be helpful, but I think the use of an intermediary reads as weakness. At least it would read as weakness to me. Is it possible to implement plan b without using a third party to communicate?


----------



## seeking sanity

Stay dark for a few more days. The dog food is red herring. She can walk/take the bus/bum a ride to the store. It's just designed to engage you. Don't fall for it.

Now the real question is what do you want to have happen next?


----------



## Mike11

girlfromipanema said:


> I would probably have the dog food delivered and not involve friends at this time. My response to friend's text would be a simple, "doing fine, thanks for checking in."
> 
> Sham, her world is unraveling and your being dark is making things very intense for her. I'm getting some satisfaction from that, I'll admit.
> 
> We'll blame the scotch on your geographical mix up. I am much closer to Pasadena (a few hours) than Ipanema.
> 
> By the way, my interpretation of your wife's text to friend "how do you recover from that?" would be how would Sham recover from the craziness you saw. She's definitely having second thoughts about her actions. I don't see her actions as necessarily an exit affair. I think she got caught up in the excitement of another man's attention, has poor boundary issues and obvious self-image problems (which seems so emotionally immature for a woman of 37 - just a year younger than me).
> 
> Hope you have a good day.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Eli-Zor

> but I think the use of an intermediary reads as weakness.


Sham is dark, as Sham is already in this state it is best he maintains it , to do this he has to have an intermediary to cover key items and isolate direct contact with his wife. A prime example are the dogs an IM would solve the problem and Sham need not even know the details. 

Being dark protects him from all the drama his wife may try throw his way. Plan B includes going dark.


----------



## Entropy3000

golfergirl said:


> It's past point of 'I'm sorry'.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OMG it is way past sorry


----------



## golfergirl

Entropy3000 said:


> OMG it is way past sorry


It's so past sorry, you can't even see sorry anymore!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

Eli-Zor said:


> Sham is dark, as Sham is already in this state it is best he maintains it , to do this he has to have an intermediary to cover key items and isolate direct contact with his wife. A prime example are the dogs an IM would solve the problem and Sham need not even know the details.
> 
> Being dark protects him from all the drama his wife may try throw his way. Plan B includes going dark.


I completely get being dark, and I think it's proving very effective for Sham. But once you send a Plan B letter, you come out of darkness and express XYZ and then set up an IM - that's where the weakness comes sneaking in. I don't know if I'm expressing myself as clearly as I'd like. Something about the use of the IM just rubs me wrong and seems 'off'. Almost like 'it's too difficult on me emotionally to directly communicate with you so you and I need to use a third party. Wah.'

JMHO.


----------



## Dadof3

girlfromipanema said:


> I completely get being dark, and I think it's proving very effective for Sham. But once you send a Plan B letter, you come out of darkness and express XYZ and then set up an IM - that's where the weakness comes sneaking in. I don't know if I'm expressing myself as clearly as I'd like. Something about the use of the IM just rubs me wrong and seems 'off'. Almost like 'it's too difficult on me emotionally to directly communicate with you so you and I need to use a third party. Wah.'
> 
> JMHO.


:iagree:


----------



## alphaomega

Everyone,

This is NOT the way to go about this.

Sham,
Go drive, get some dog food. Go deliver it. If she starts crying or begging, hold up your hand and say.." please, let's keep the discussions to our separation. Anything else doesn't matter to me.". Then, get back in your car and go back to your hotel room.

If you ignore, get dog food delivered, or get a friend to help you? This all shows weakness of character. You need to show her that you are fully in the 180 and she's not going to control or manipulate you anymore. Especially in person. 

THAT is a show of strength and character, and not to mention a totally ALPHA and unexpected move on your part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

I agree with Alpha, but take someone with you to witness what goes on. Show her how good you are doing and how strong you have become. 

I can see her throwing things, hitting, whatever ..... because she is losing it. She is wanting much more than dog food and she will be angry when all Sham does is drop off the food.


----------



## piqued

alphaomega said:


> Everyone,
> 
> This is NOT the way to go about this.
> 
> Sham,
> Go drive, get some dog food. Go deliver it. If she starts crying or begging, hold up your hand and say.." please, let's keep the discussions to our separation. Anything else doesn't matter to me.". Then, get back in your car and go back to your hotel room.
> 
> If you ignore, get dog food delivered, or get a friend to help you? This all shows weakness of character. You need to show her that you are fully in the 180 and she's not going to control or manipulate you anymore. Especially in person.
> 
> THAT is a show of strength and character, and not to mention a totally ALPHA and unexpected move on your part.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Unexpected or not, it is exactly what SHE WANTS to occur. It will be giving HER the power by him responding to HER requests. She didn't say "can you figure out dog food", SHE ASKED HIM TO BRING IT.


----------



## DanG

If the attny OKs it, my suggestion would be to kennel the dogs - until you find a place where you can keep them. Just go confidently with a friend and get them and anything else you need. Don't get into conversations. In and out. When/if she is ever ready to "talk" without using scapegoats and vehicles in the process will be the FIRST day that there is any chance that she could POSSIBLY come around. You are dealing with a manipulative child, who may/or may not be able to grow.


----------



## Gabriel

piqued said:


> Unexpected or not, it is exactly what SHE WANTS to occur. It will be giving HER the power by him responding to HER requests. She didn't say "can you figure out dog food", SHE ASKED HIM TO BRING IT.



I'm with piqued here. I see this as a ploy by her to rope him back into her steely traps. I am, however, all for him PROACTIVELY sending her a brief communication. See, by getting Sham to react, she is in control, not him, and it's not alpha IMHO. He needs to stay in control to be alpha here. 

I'm not saying this is what Sham should do, but if it were me, I would send her a text or email saying something like this.

"In a few days, I am going to come get the rest of my stuff and my dog. I won't be alone. This is my last communication until then. I'm signing divorce papers today/tomorrow/(fill in timeframe). My attorney will contact you to sort out details."


And then wait 2-3 more days and go get your stuff and dog. Bring a friend or relative or somebody.

That's just what I would do in this situation. Good luck man.


----------



## WorldsApart

piqued said:


> Unexpected or not, it is exactly what SHE WANTS to occur. It will be giving HER the power by him responding to HER requests. She didn't say "can you figure out dog food", SHE ASKED HIM TO BRING IT.


Agreed.


----------



## crossbar

alphaomega said:


> Everyone,
> 
> This is NOT the way to go about this.
> 
> Sham,
> Go drive, get some dog food. Go deliver it. If she starts crying or begging, hold up your hand and say.." please, let's keep the discussions to our separation. Anything else doesn't matter to me.". Then, get back in your car and go back to your hotel room.
> 
> If you ignore, get dog food delivered, or get a friend to help you? This all shows weakness of character. You need to show her that you are fully in the 180 and she's not going to control or manipulate you anymore. Especially in person.
> 
> THAT is a show of strength and character, and not to mention a totally ALPHA and unexpected move on your part.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 With all due respect, I don't see it that way. If he was to deliver it, that's exactly what SHE wants him to do. She snaps her fingers and he comes running. Shows her that she still has some sort of control over him which is what she wants to gain back. Control of the situation. He can have it delivered and still take care of his responsiblities without having to see her.


----------



## golfergirl

crossbar said:


> With all due respect, I don't see it that way. If he was to deliver it, that's exactly what SHE wants him to do. She snaps her fingers and he comes running. Shows her that she still has some sort of control over him which is what she wants to gain back. Control of the situation. He can have it delivered and still take care of his responsiblities without having to see her.


She HAS money - why does Sham need to do anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorldsApart

Gabriel said:


> I'm with piqued here. I see this as a ploy by her to rope him back into her steely traps. I am, however, all for him PROACTIVELY sending her a brief communication. See, by getting Sham to react, she is in control, not him, and it's not alpha IMHO. He needs to stay in control to be alpha here.
> 
> I'm not saying this is what Sham should do, but if it were me, I would send her a text or email saying something like this.
> 
> "In a few days, I am going to come get the rest of my stuff and my dog. I won't be alone. This is my last communication until then. I'm signing divorce papers today/tomorrow/(fill in timeframe). My attorney will contact you to sort out details."
> 
> 
> And then wait 2-3 more days and go get your stuff and dog. Bring a friend or relative or somebody.
> 
> That's just what I would do in this situation. Good luck man.


Why give her ANY information that allows her to plan ahead? She's been 10 steps ahead of SW for months now, why give her time and location to plot something? 
Better question- what good could possibly come out of that kind of warning for SW?


----------



## Dadof3

alphaomega said:


> Everyone,
> 
> This is NOT the way to go about this.
> 
> Sham,
> Go drive, get some dog food. Go deliver it. If she starts crying or begging, hold up your hand and say.." please, let's keep the discussions to our separation. Anything else doesn't matter to me.". Then, get back in your car and go back to your hotel room.
> 
> If you ignore, get dog food delivered, or get a friend to help you? This all shows weakness of character. You need to show her that you are fully in the 180 and she's not going to control or manipulate you anymore. Especially in person.
> 
> THAT is a show of strength and character, and not to mention a totally ALPHA and unexpected move on your part.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

DATS WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT! 

Everything done so far has been good - don't get me wrong - but she needs to see this Alpha skills to know what she's gonna lose. If R is at all in the realm of possibilities - it might make it more possible to achieve. 

Just my two cents again .


----------



## crossbar

golfergirl said:


> She HAS money - why does Sham need to do anything?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, like I said in an earlier post. He's still married and he does have a responsibily to the household. That's why I suggested that he contact his lawyer to find out what EXACTLY he's responsible for while he's no longer in the house. Dogs included. It's basically CYA (cover your ass) until he hears from his lawyer.


----------



## alphaomega

All this subterfuge seems so juvenile to me. Everyone can read into what she's saying and come up with thier own theories. I have on too....

She said..." I have no money and I need dog food". Maybe take it at face value. Maybe she thinks she has no money and doesn't want the dogs to starve.

How about if it was this one, if they have kids? I have no money. Can you get ome groceries for the kids.

Him: no. Get your own groceries.

Really. This doesn't have to be who one ups anyone. Keep going down that road and the anger phase will just keep going and going and going.

He already moved out. He's already in control. Who really cares if she requested dog food.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

alphaomega said:


> All this subterfuge seems so juvenile to me. Everyone can read into what she's saying and come up with thier own theories. I have on too....
> 
> She said..." I have no money and I need dog food". Maybe take it at face value. Maybe she thinks she has no money and doesn't want the dogs to starve.
> 
> How about if it was this one, if they have kids? I have no money. Can you get ome groceries for the kids.
> 
> Him: no. Get your own groceries.
> 
> Really. This doesn't have to be who one ups anyone. Keep going down that road and the anger phase will just keep going and going and going.
> 
> He already moved out. He's already in control. Who really cares if she requested dog food.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he left her money in joint account - so it's not about that - she's a business woman, she know how to check a bank balance. It's a game - so question is what does someone do? 
Court: you abandoned dogs with no food 
Sham: there was food when I left, I paid all bills and left her $250 in account 
What is he doing wrong?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

I'm with alpha. She didn't request that he come over and give her a massage. She asked for something reasonable that he is partially responsible for. He will need to have contact with her in the future for things of this nature. He will need to get the rest of his things from the house, etc.

She doesn't have a car, so she can't run to the market. And an intermediary is weak. He doesn't want to give the impression that he is scared to face her. He wants to give the impression that he is indifferent to her because they have nothing to discuss.

Go over there and drop off a big bag of dog food. Tell your wife that you're late for a tee time, so you obviously can't stay. Make it short and sweet. If she cries, sorry can't stay. If she screams, sorry can't stay. If she's apathetic, sorry can't stay. If she wants to explain the affair, sorry can't stay. Then resume your darkness until the next time you have business with her.

Good luck.

P.S. He can pay for the food out of the joint account.


----------



## crossbar

LOL! wow...all of this over dog food... Hell, his WW has us going in circles! 


In my opinion, Sham just confirmed that his wife cheated on him. Alpha male or not, that still hurts like hell. He might not be ready to have a face to face with her right now. We have to consider his feelings on the matter.


----------



## alphaomega

So, then call her up. Text her if that is too frightening to do right now.

Say this...

There was food when I left. I paid all the bills and left you 250 in the joint account. Use that money to buy dog food. I'll come drop off some more dog food in a few days when I have time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

alphaomega said:


> All this subterfuge seems so juvenile to me. Everyone can read into what she's saying and come up with thier own theories. I have on too....
> 
> She said..." I have no money and I need dog food". Maybe take it at face value. Maybe she thinks she has no money and doesn't want the dogs to starve.
> 
> How about if it was this one, if they have kids? I have no money. Can you get ome groceries for the kids.
> 
> Him: no. Get your own groceries.
> 
> Really. This doesn't have to be who one ups anyone. Keep going down that road and the anger phase will just keep going and going and going.
> 
> He already moved out. He's already in control. Who really cares if she requested dog food.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BINGO! :iagree:

Being alpha means living out loud right - in addition to being in control of yourself. She knows how easy it would be to manipulate the old Sham. She isn't sure of that anymore. 

If D is the only option here - I think all this talk is probably best for everyone. If Sham is open to reconcile - it has to start somewhere (and with many false starts more than likely) - but why not bring his game into the open now - where both can appreciate it some?


----------



## MarriedTex

I would get dog food, take it over and put it on the porch. Perhaps even late at night. Use your phone to take a picture of the food on the porch. (If she ever claims you didn't support care of dogs, you have evidence. )

Upon driving away, text her and tell her she can find dog food on the porch.


----------



## WorldsApart

crossbar said:


> LOL! wow...all of this over dog food... Hell, his WW has us going in circles!
> 
> 
> In my opinion, Sham just confirmed that his wife cheated on him. Alpha male or not, that still hurts like hell. He might not be ready to have a face to face with her right now. We have to consider his feelings on the matter.


Right. How many of us, in his shoes, would be able to say no if she jumped out of a robe in one of the new lingerie sets and jumped him?

Avoiding direct contact doesn't say "I'm too weak", I believe it says "I've got more important business to attend to".


----------



## Gabriel

WorldsApart said:


> Why give her ANY information that allows her to plan ahead? She's been 10 steps ahead of SW for months now, why give her time and location to plot something?
> Better question- what good could possibly come out of that kind of warning for SW?



Do you really think he will never need to talk to her again, ever? At some point, they have to address some issues, like the dogs. At some point, he has to acknowledge to her that there are things that need to occur, like getting his stuff. 

My point is that he's gone dark for 4 days now, it's worked. He can't stay dark forever, nor does he need to have a long chat with her. But he DOES need to handle a few things. This can happen right now, after a few more dark days, or he could slowly say what he needs to say to make arrangements. 

Notice I said, "in a few days". That was on purpose. This could be tomorrrow, in 3 days or in 10 days. That doesn't telegraph when he goes. She knows he has to come for his stuff eventually. He can't hide in a hotel for the rest of his life - the point of doing this was to go dark for awhile and pull the hard 180 for himself, which he has done, and very effectively.

Remember when people were saying he should go dark "for at least the weekend?" It's Tuesday now. Staying dark is fine for now, but at some point he has to get his stuff, etc, and acknowledge the situation once he is ready.


----------



## Entropy3000

WorldsApart said:


> Right. How many of us, in his shoes, would be able to say no if she jumped out of a robe in one of the new lingerie sets and jumped him?
> 
> Avoiding direct contact doesn't say "I'm too weak", I believe it says "I've got more important business to attend to".


:iagree:

Agreed. Stick with the plan. IF he were to go over there he should not go alone.

He should have the dog food delivered. He would have proof it was done and that the money was spent on the dogs.

She could jump the pet store guy.

Win-win.


----------



## ManDup

Incidentally, my sources tell me that the optimal period for going dark is 3 weeks. At the end of 3 weeks her crazy will be at its highest. Not sure if it applies in this case, because he doesn't want her back.


----------



## alphaomega

Dadof3 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> DATS WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT!
> 
> Everything done so far has been good - don't get me wrong - but she needs to see this Alpha skills to know what she's gonna lose. If R is at all in the realm of possibilities - it might make it more possible to achieve.
> 
> Just my two cents again .


Yes. Shammy needs to decide what the big master plan is.

1. Divorce. Then all this "game" playing is moot. Go get dog food. Drop it off. Go back to the hotel. Or tell her to use the money in the joint account. It doesn't really matter at this point anymore. Don't get me wrong Sham, this is far from a game. Your going through the worst stressful time in your life. It's understandable you are hurt.

2. Reconciliation.
If this is the plan, then I presume the goal is to go all Alpha on her, to show her what she is going to miss. Yes, he needs her to come to that self realization of regret and sincerity in her apologies. This is going to take some time, and a lot of work. And remember, you are not doing this for her, but for you. Maybe she will see your strength. Maybe she wont.

A little back story time, because I just finished watching Phineas and Ferb with my little guy, and there's always a back story in those episodes....so here is mine (and I'm not trying to hijack your thread here. Just a little example is all.....)

You want alpha? Show her what she is missing? Then be alpha. Dont be scared to talk to her, or IM her. Take charge of your life. 

My wife had a deep EA. Standard textbook stuff. Of course I went through the denial stage. Got the ILYBINILWY speech so many times. "we should move out". "I need time to think". etc etc et al. Then came the "Don't force a decision out of me. I need time to think of things and if I still want to be with you." First she said three months, then six, then a year. A year in limbo. Really?


I got past denial pretty fast after that. I went out, found her an apartment, paid first and last months rent. Hired a truck. Got some friends over. Moves ALL her stuff that weekend.

She texted me. I texted back. She needed something for the kids. I went and got it and delivered it when I picked up the kids on my days. (however, when she needed me to continue paying her gym membership, of course I didn't budge on that one) 

Sometimes when I would bring "milk" over, she went all crying on me, pleading, etc. I just held up my hand, and left. No big deal. I also talked to her like it WAS no big deal. She made up her mind with continuing the EA, and that was how it was. That was her decision, and I was getting on with my life. And I let her know that.

*******

So Sham, it's pretty early. You are hurting. That's a lot of time to invest in a marriage and have it torn apart so suddenly. But don't ever be afraid of talking to her or seeing her in person. You just need to show your own inner strength and conviction of spirit. THIS is the most direct way to get your point across.


----------



## MarriedTex

Hou about the following on the dog. In text, say the following: 

"Crazy busy with work. You order from XYZ store. (give phone number or Web address) They will deliver. Charge the joint account."

This covers the issue of meeting needs. Gets the dogs fed. Demonstrates he's moving on & she has to do work of solving problem.


----------



## Entropy3000

alphaomega said:


> Yes. Shammy needs to decide what the big master plan is.
> 
> 1. Divorce. Then all this "game" playing is moot. Go get dog food. Drop it off. Go back to the hotel. Or tell her to use the money in the joint account. It doesn't really matter at this point anymore. Don't get me wrong Sham, this is far from a game. Your going through the worst stressful time in your life. It's understandable you are hurt.
> 
> 2. Reconciliation.
> If this is the plan, then I presume the goal is to go all Alpha on her, to show her what she is going to miss. Yes, he needs her to come to that self realization of regret and sincerity in her apologies. This is going to take some time, and a lot of work. And remember, you are not doing this for her, but for you. Maybe she will see your strength. Maybe she wont.
> 
> A little back story time, because I just finished watching Phineas and Ferb with my little guy, and there's always a back story in those episodes....so here is mine (and I'm not trying to hijack your thread here. Just a little example is all.....)
> 
> You want alpha? Show her what she is missing? Then be alpha. Dont be scared to talk to her, or IM her. Take charge of your life.
> 
> My wife had a deep EA. Standard textbook stuff. Of course I went through the denial stage. Got the ILYBINILWY speech so many times. "we should move out". "I need time to think".  etc etc et al. Then came the "Don't force a decision out of me. I need time to think of things and if I still want to be with you." First she said three months, then six, then a year. A year in limbo. Really?
> 
> 
> I got past denial pretty fast after that. I went out, found her an apartment, paid first and last months rent. Hired a truck. Got some friends over. Moves ALL her stuff that weekend.
> 
> She texted me. I texted back. She needed something for the kids. I went and got it and delivered it when I picked up the kids on my days. (however, when she needed me to continue paying her gym membership, of course I didn't budge on that one)
> 
> Sometimes when I would bring "milk" over, she went all crying on me, pleading, etc. I just held up my hand, and left. No big deal. I also talked to her like it WAS no big deal. She made up her mind with continuing the EA, and that was how it was. That was her decision, and I was getting on with my life. And I let her know that.
> 
> *******
> 
> So Sham, it's pretty early. You are hurting. That's a lot of time to invest in a marriage and have it torn apart so suddenly. But don't ever be afraid of talking to her or seeing her in person. You just need to show your own inner strength and conviction of spirit. THIS is the most direct way to get your point across.


I was not thinking he was trying to show her what she was missing. I was about lessoning the drama to his life so he could move ahead. So I agree trying to show the alpha at all costs seems needless. Sure he should show her he will not be her doormat but that is something completely different.

If he backs off now she will destroy him. He has to follow through. She is not falling apart. She misses dominating him.
She misses the car.

And it is 2.718 weeks approx.


----------



## golfergirl

I agree eventually he need to speak to her. The only thing is I feel it's important to initiate contact on his terms not as response to her. Especially when it's bullsheet. She has money and she can find her way to a market. I manage to bring dog food home with a 9 month old and 3 year old.
If his contact is done as response to her then watch the games begin!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

3 weeks is crazy long to go dark. I mean, 180, yes. But totally dark? Wow.

Alpha, I guess everybody's sitch is different. Sorry you had to go through that. My wife also had a deep EA, but I caught it early, and it wasn't to the extent of Sham's situation in the least. Did you and your W reconcile?


----------



## crossbar

Entropy3000 said:


> She misses the car.


Agreed. The car and his money.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> Agreed. The car and his money.


Seriously. If he goes there she will ask to borrow the car. I bet the lawyer suggested that possesion is 9 tenths of the law. If she can get his car away from him, he is stranded. Now I agree this is some cold stuff I am saying. I would argue it is consistent with her behavior thus far.


----------



## golfergirl

crossbar said:


> Agreed. The car and his money.


When you initiate contact make it under your terms not as response to her. If it was legit request - fine deal with it but get P!SSED that she's trying to manipulate you once again and not very creatively!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

Not to rain on everyone's parade, but remember, she was ready to leave him months ago. Sham has to be prepared for the fact that she's planning a huge "I'm finally free" party. She may be a little ticked that he beat her to the punch, but she may not be as devastated as everyone thinks. He can alpha-up all he wants, but she may very well be in the drivers seat. Not saying she's right, but she could be in a pretty good place right now. He may get a rude awakening if he plans on seeing a mess when he see's her. I don't see too many crying, hysterical emails or calls coming his way from her. He needs to brace for that.

Just saying.


----------



## MrK

Entropy3000 said:


> I bet the lawyer suggested that possesion is 9 tenths of the law.


I'd be wary of any lawyer that gave this advice. In the US, anyhow. That's playground "I found this ball now it's mine" logic.


----------



## Amplexor

MrK said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade, but remember, she was ready to leave him months ago. Sham has to be prepared for the fact that she's planning a huge "I'm finally free" party. She may be a little ticked that he beat her to the punch, but she may not be as devastated as everyone thinks. He can alpha-up all he wants, but she may very well be in the drivers seat. Not saying she's right, but she could be in a pretty good place right now. He may get a rude awakening if he plans on seeing a mess when he see's her. I don't see too many crying, hysterical emails or calls coming his way from her. He needs to brace for that.
> 
> Just saying.



:iagree:

She checked out months ago.


----------



## Mike11

MrK is right 

way to early in the process for this type of mind games 

there is plenty of time for that reconciliation is possible even after divorce he should still keep NC.

She is fishing for information and trying to lure him in for a conversation knowing very well that she can control the situation once she can talk to him. 

I think s stern NC for some time until the OMW will be informed and Divorce proceedings had been initiated, reconciliation can happen even in the last minute, now it is to early, she is still in damage control mode.


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks for all the thoughts, everyone, went with what felt best for me and gets this off my back the fastest.

Ordered food to be delivered.

Sent her a text saying: "Food for the dogs will be delivered tomorrow afternoon. If you're not there they'll leave it at the back door."

(paid from the joint acct)

Took care of my dogs, covered my ass, showed her I don't want to see her, back to dark for now.

For better or worse, this is what I felt best about. We'll see where it takes me.


----------



## MrQuatto

Many of you need to remember that you can't broadly apply situations that you went through to Sham's situation. There are similarities but there is where it ends. 

Everyone has given their viewpoints, we've read them, we've know your point. Sham, as he has demonstrated through most of this ordeal, will act responsibly with his best interest at heart doing what is best for Sham. There are no real wrong answers in what he does because each situation is different and has to be dealt with as time goes on and the situations unfold.

Now please, go throw some words of wisdom to the other dozen active threads going today.. 

Q~


----------



## MrQuatto

lol, damn, just 30 seconds too late on hitting post!


----------



## crossbar

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> She checked out months ago.


Agreed, but she didn't count on getting caught. If she was going to leave, it would have been that our relationship isn't working, we're in to different places in life, I'm just not happy...crap. She would leave and her secret affair would have remained inact.

Now, words getting out that he left because she was cheating on him. Well, "supposedly" cheating on him. He left and she wasn't ready for him to leave. Now, she callling everyone they know to see what exactly he's been telling people, wondering what his game plan is and it's driving her nuts because this wasn't part of HER game plan.

Or, perphaps she was never gonna leave him. They have a nice house, he has a good job, pays the bills, takes care of things and all the while she gets to take vacations away from her marriage and have wild sex every once in a while. Total cake eating. The security of a home and a husband and wild sex with her married lover who won't say anything because he has a lot to lose as well.


----------



## Shamwow

MrK said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade, but remember, she was ready to leave him months ago. Sham has to be prepared for the fact that she's planning a huge "I'm finally free" party. She may be a little ticked that he beat her to the punch, but she may not be as devastated as everyone thinks. He can alpha-up all he wants, but she may very well be in the drivers seat. Not saying she's right, but she could be in a pretty good place right now. He may get a rude awakening if he plans on seeing a mess when he see's her. I don't see too many crying, hysterical emails or calls coming his way from her. He needs to brace for that.
> 
> Just saying.


Agreed. And I'm fully braced for, and expecting just that. I'm ultimately giving her what she wanted, just on my terms, so at least I get to go out in a position of power, regardless of how she views it. At least she didn't get to fantasize, stray, lie, make future plans with other men, lie, go through with plans no matter what I thought, lie, waste our money on OM and her mid-life crisis sexual fulfillment, lie, cheat...and THEN get to dump me when she was ready.


----------



## Gabriel

crossbar said:


> Agreed, but she didn't count on getting caught. If she was going to leave, it would have been that our relationship isn't working, we're in to different places in life, I'm just not happy...crap. She would leave and her secret affair would have remained inact.
> 
> Now, words getting out that he left because she was cheating on him. Well, "supposedly" cheating on him. He left and she wasn't ready for him to leave. Now, she callling everyone they know to see what exactly he's been telling people, wondering what his game plan is and it's driving her nuts because this wasn't part of HER game plan.
> 
> Or, perphaps she was never gonna leave him. They have a nice house, he has a good job, pays the bills, takes care of things and all the while she gets to take vacations away from her marriage and have wild sex every once in a while. Total cake eating. The security of a home and a husband and wild sex with her married lover who won't say anything because he has a lot to lose as well.


This^^^:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

getting back to OMW, found the script I was looking for courtesy of jellybeans

of course change what fits in this situation



Jellybeans said:


> _"OM's Fiance (OMF), it has recently come to my attention that your fiance has been having an affair with my wife. It has been going on since at least Month/Year and I found out because of XYZ. My wife has openly admitted it to me. She also knows Cousin's Name (this will cement for OMF you aren't BS'ing and actually know the people involved). I confronted OM at Supermarket's Name and at first he denied the affair but when I told him I knew the facts and my wife admitted it to me, he came clean. I am telling you this so that you are aware of what is going on. OM and My Wife'ss affair has been detrimental to my marriage [and children]. I also discovered XYZ (fill in this blank with whtever proof you have --phone calls, emails, texts, pictures, etc). If you were already aware of the affair, then this won't come as a surprise to you but if not, I am sorry to have to be the one to give you this news. If you would like to talk further about this, you may contact me at (Phone/email)."_


----------



## Shamwow

Regarding dog food, she texted back "Thanks".

Then the kicker..."Do you want to tell me what you told my folks before I call them back?"

She must be crapping her brand new Victoria's Secrets over that one. Clearly she hasn't called them since I left. Let the fireworks fly.

Not sure if I should text her back "Just told them I had to leave and why."

Or just go back to dark and let her find out as she spins her yarns for them...def don't want to go back to responding to her all the time, I know that.


----------



## Almostrecovered

god no, dont answer that one at all, she wants to spin lies to her parents


----------



## WhereAmI

Shamwow said:


> Regarding dog food, she texted back "Thanks".
> 
> Then the kicker..."Do you want to tell me what you told my folks before I call them back?"
> 
> She must be crapping her brand new Victoria's Secrets over that one. Clearly she hasn't called them since I left. Let the fireworks fly.
> 
> Not sure if I should text her back "Just told them I had to leave and why."
> 
> Or just go back to dark and let her find out as she spins her yarns for them...def don't want to go back to responding to her all the time, I know that.


Dark, sir. You owe her no explanation.


----------



## seeking sanity

What do you want to have happen next?


----------



## seeking sanity

The 180 is for you get your head together. If you want to proceed on divorce, then it doesn't matter what you say or do. If you want to get a confession/I'm sorry or something like closure from her you keep dark until some time passes. Same if you'd entertain some kind of reconciliation.


----------



## WhereAmI

She's a sly one. You now have confirmation that the dog food was all about roping you in. Please don't fall for it. She'll likely complain about you ignoring her next. Let it slide off your back.


----------



## crossbar

LOL!!! Really? She wants to know what you told her folks? Why? So, she can formulate a viable cover story as to why you're insane for suggesting that she cheated on you? Stay dark, you took care of the dogs.

I guess you know the real reason for the dog food!


----------



## seeking sanity

Best response to text would be:

"The truth. Don't text me again unless you are prepared to do the same for me."


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> Regarding dog food, she texted back "Thanks".
> 
> Then the kicker..."Do you want to tell me what you told my folks before I call them back?"
> 
> She must be crapping her brand new Victoria's Secrets over that one. Clearly she hasn't called them since I left. Let the fireworks fly.
> 
> Not sure if I should text her back "Just told them I had to leave and why."
> 
> Or just go back to dark and let her find out as she spins her yarns for them...def don't want to go back to responding to her all the time, I know that.


In no way respond. All that will do is give her information on which she can weave a story. As you've seen, she is quite adept at lying. Let her come up with something on her own and risk getting tripped up by those darn facts.


----------



## crossbar

Hmmm.... funny thing is it's about for or five days since Sham left and she hasn't even talk to her folks.

I don't know about everyone else, but if something devestating happened in my life. My family would be the first people I would call for support. Yet, she didn't. Makes me think that she was banking that Sham would have come crawling back or she could have convinced (manipulated) him back home and when she did talk to her folks she could say, " No, he's home now. IT WAS ALL A MISUNDERSTANDING."


----------



## Shamwow

She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shamwow you should inform the OMW ASAP and file the papers.

Through the process you'll be able to get a better fix on any possible R ( I'm sure it's in the back of your mind).

She's creeping me out a bit.
Cover your ass quickly.

Stay dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

> She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...


How do you know?

If you still have access to her facebook page it is an opportunity to message a few key friends the truth of her affair.

At this moment she is playing a waiting game and I suspect you have used gentle words to describe her affair, she is and will be gaslighting you.



> Sham wow you should inform the OMW ASAP


Have you not done this yet, if not please get off the fence and do it now.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Regarding dog food, she texted back "Thanks".
> 
> Then the kicker..."Do you want to tell me what you told my folks before I call them back?"
> 
> She must be crapping her brand new Victoria's Secrets over that one. Clearly she hasn't called them since I left. Let the fireworks fly.
> 
> Not sure if I should text her back "Just told them I had to leave and why."
> 
> Or just go back to dark and let her find out as she spins her yarns for them...def don't want to go back to responding to her all the time, I know that.


Mission Control - I do believe we have received the signal to drop the OMW bomb. Shock and AWE time! Nows the time to hit her from the OM side!


----------



## Gabriel

her doing that was probably to get your attention. Agree on no response to her last question. Nothing. Silence. I almost started underestimating this woman. Wow.


----------



## Gabriel

Totally agree on the OMW. I would call her and use that $650 I spent. Immediately.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Heres your opportunity to put them into a "Cheaters club" on FB - a group you form yourself and add them to. Looks like they have something more in common. 

They can't prevent you from doing this!


----------



## golfergirl

Gabriel said:


> her doing that was probably to get your attention. Agree on no response to her last question. Nothing. Silence. I almost started underestimating this woman. Wow.


With dog food - my H does that manipulation all the time. We're in midst of fight and silent treatment and he'll text me to do something just as an opening for me to respond. It's always for something as stupid as the dog food ploy. Re: friending ex H - she's checking to see if you're watching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Thanks for all the thoughts, everyone, went with what felt best for me and gets this off my back the fastest.
> 
> Ordered food to be delivered.
> 
> Sent her a text saying: "Food for the dogs will be delivered tomorrow afternoon. If you're not there they'll leave it at the back door."
> 
> (paid from the joint acct)
> 
> Took care of my dogs, covered my ass, showed her I don't want to see her, back to dark for now.
> 
> For better or worse, this is what I felt best about. We'll see where it takes me.


Good choice. Minimal drama. You took care of things. Very low risk approach.


----------



## piqued

She hasn't talked to her parents yet because:

A. She thought she'd have control of this situation by now, with Sham either back eating out of the palm of her hand or at least responding to her so she could manipulate from afar.

B. She doesn't think she has enough information to craft the lie she is going to tell her parents.

C. She, like Sham, is looking and strategizing for the big picture and didn't want to say anything until she had a strategy for divorce in place and in action.


She friended her exH on FB because:

A. she's always like him and now that she's free figures why the heck not.

B. she is hoping to poke and tug (hurt) sham even more by introducing another person she can turn to for emotional affection.

C. she used to be able to manipulate him too, and she needs someone to manipulate right now to get her sense of being and worth back.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She has an ex-hubby? Oh...

She gone through this before. That's one reason why she's so cool about this.

She's intelligent. She's probably a few steps ahead of you, Sham.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Regarding dog food, she texted back "Thanks".
> 
> Then the kicker..."Do you want to tell me what you told my folks before I call them back?"
> 
> She must be crapping her brand new Victoria's Secrets over that one. Clearly she hasn't called them since I left. Let the fireworks fly.
> 
> Not sure if I should text her back "Just told them I had to leave and why."
> 
> Or just go back to dark and let her find out as she spins her yarns for them...def don't want to go back to responding to her all the time, I know that.


So the real reason she contacted you about the dogs. She is pi$$ed.

Why does she need to know what you told her parents if she just goes with the truth. No stories to get together. This shows her current way of thinking. Cover stories.


----------



## tacoma

piqued said:


> C. she used to be able to manipulate him too, and she needs someone to manipulate right now to get her sense of being and worth back.


This one has my vote.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

Friended her ExH? Sounds like she's desperately trying to find allies, (probably why what you said to her parents is SO DAMN IMPORTANT to her) or, it could even be a sign that the OM isn't working according to her plan.

Sham, good that you texted about the dogs and the dogs only-keep it all business until the D lawyers get it straightened out.


----------



## Entropy3000

WhereAmI said:


> Dark, sir. You owe her no explanation.


:iagree:

Dark


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> She just friended her ex hubby on FB. Ha! Guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. Rolling my eyes...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, she needs someone to manipulate. Maybe get some money.

OMG this is crazy.


----------



## Gabriel

piqued said:


> She hasn't talked to her parents yet because:
> 
> A. She thought she'd have control of this situation by now, with Sham either back eating out of the palm of her hand or at least responding to her so she could manipulate from afar.
> 
> B. She doesn't think she has enough information to craft the lie she is going to tell her parents.
> 
> C. She, like Sham, is looking and strategizing for the big picture and didn't want to say anything until she had a strategy for divorce in place and in action.
> 
> 
> She friended her exH on FB because:
> 
> A. she's always like him and now that she's free figures why the heck not.
> 
> B. she is hoping to poke and tug (hurt) sham even more by introducing another person she can turn to for emotional affection.
> 
> C. she used to be able to manipulate him too, and she needs someone to manipulate right now to get her sense of being and worth back.


This is pure gold right here.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dadof3 said:


> Mission Control - I do believe we have received the signal to drop the OMW bomb. Shock and AWE time! Nows the time to hit her from the OM side!


:iagree:


----------



## crossbar

piqued said:


> C. she used to be able to manipulate him too, and she needs someone to manipulate right now to get her sense of being and worth back.


I Like this one, but he's probably an Ex because he didn't put up with her BS either. Hey Sham! Why don't you friend request her Ex-husband too! Maybe you guys can compare notes! :smthumbup:

J/K


----------



## kenmoore14217

Sham, please expose to OMW soon. The longer you wait the less credibility you will have.


----------



## crossbar

And when you do expose to the OMW, be prepared to see your phone light up like a christmas tree.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> I Like this one, but he's probably an Ex because he didn't put up with her BS either. Hey Sham! Why don't you friend request her Ex-husband too! Maybe you guys can compare notes! :smthumbup:
> 
> J/K


What does her ex do for a living? Cop?


----------



## Eli-Zor

> A. She thought she'd have control of this situation by now, with Sham either back eating out of the palm of her hand or at least responding to her so she could manipulate from afar.
> 
> B. She doesn't think she has enough information to craft the lie she is going to tell her parents.
> 
> C. She, like Sham, is looking and strategizing for the big picture and didn't want to say anything until she had a strategy for divorce in place and in action.
> 
> 
> She friended her exH on FB because:
> 
> A. she's always like him and now that she's free figures why the heck not.
> 
> B. she is hoping to poke and tug (hurt) sham even more by introducing another person she can turn to for emotional affection.
> 
> C. she used to be able to manipulate him too, and she needs someone to manipulate right now to get her sense of being and worth back.


:iagree:

An exposure to a good number her facebook contacts will soon get the truth out , will help bring the demise of the affair, will give greater clarity of thought once she starts feeling the consequences. Add the exposure to the OM's wife

You still have a chance she could come round. 

Sham the key here is to get the exposure out , get it over with then let her reel as people she knows start questioning her. 

Nothing starts lifting the fog quicker than the truth, by doing this you are removing the power from her and it may give a future recovery a chance.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Another reason for pressing you to expose is your wife knows you, she has already drawn you in with the dogs, I assure you she is slowly dismantling any credibility you have with her friends and she will do so with her parents. Your wife does not know us nor is it likley she knows the MB or divorce busters plans,many of us do. We can help you through this.

Telling the truth in not malicious. If you are not going to call the OM's wife let us know as there are many posters giving guidance and we need to know if we should step away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

I agree 100%. Start wide exposure now. Start with the OMW.


Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> She has an ex-hubby? Oh...
> 
> She gone through this before. That's one reason why she's so cool about this.
> 
> She's intelligent. She's probably a few steps ahead of you, Sham.


Ya think? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stunner

Kinda makes you wonder what actually happened with the ex hubby.... because whatever she told you is likely not the whole truth...

perhaps shes just the type of girl that shouldnt marry.


Sham you should go out and get some tail.....enjoy your life again


----------



## Dadof3

aug said:


> She has an ex-hubby?  Oh...
> 
> She gone through this before. That's one reason why she's so cool about this.
> 
> She's intelligent. She's probably a few steps ahead of you, Sham.


Likely a projection. Key here is to pull her reality apart - in pieces. This is why I suggest the SHOCK and AWE campaign. You keep her off balance enough to say - WOW - I THOUGHT I was in control - turns out SHAM is a major force to be reckoned with.


----------



## joe kidd

Dadof3 said:


> Likely a projection. Key here is to pull her reality apart - in pieces. This is why I suggest the SHOCK and AWE campaign. You keep her off balance enough to say - WOW - I THOUGHT I was in control - turns out SHAM is a major force to be reckoned with.


Maybe.... or it could be like pouring vodka on crazy. He knows her better than we do and seems to be handling things well.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I was thinking the same thing about what stories she told Sham about her ex. I wonder if she got cheating with him? Probably told Sham the opposite.


----------



## Catherine602

Sham watch your back. She request help from you to deal with her parents. How do you like that? She did not ask how you are doing or if there is anything she can do or say to express how sorry she is that she srewed up. What is in her mind that she thinks that she should suffer no consequences for her transgressions. There is an arrogance and artfulness that is scary. Take note. 

Have you observered her in situations that were dicey and she had to get her azzz out of a crack, what was she like? That's the person you are going to be dealing with from now on. She had an ex, how did she talk about him and treat him throughout the D process? This is the person you will be dealing with. 

I am of two minds - you could write something in a cool disinterested tone or don't answer. "The dog food was an easy fix. I am certain your problem solving abilities are equal to solving your problem with your parents."

to you the person she betrayed for back asking you to help her out with her parents
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Catherine602 said:


> Sham watch your back. She request help from you to deal with her parents. How do you like that? She did not ask how you are doing or if there is anything she can do or say to express how sorry she is that she srewed up. What is in her mind that she thinks that she should suffer no consequences for her transgressions. There is an arrogance and artfulness that is scary. Take note.
> 
> Have you observered her in situations that were dicey and she had to get her azzz out of a crack, what was she like? That's the person you are going to be dealing with from now on. She had an ex, how did she talk about him and treat him throughout the D process? This is the person you will be dealing with.
> 
> I am of two minds - you could write something in a cool disinterested tone or don't answer. "The dog food was an easy fix. I am certain your problem solving abilities are equal to solving your problem with your parents."
> 
> to you the person she betrayed for back asking you to help her out with her parents
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Boy - interesting. I think there is a dynamic here that goes back to her (WW) upbringing. I recall you saying she was the daughter of a preacher who was into forgiving without demanding accountability. 

Hmmmm.... She's not taking accountability, expecting forgiveness and moving on (rug sweeping!) I lay this one down on her parents as this is what happens when you don't put boundaries / consequences and provide instant forgiveness!

A typical trait for cake eaters - is it not?

This is part of of my take on handling her a bit different. She is in my mind not necessarily several steps ahead, but projecting her reality into the marriage, not used to being given consequences. This is why I wonder if some engagement here is more beneficial in the long term (if R is desired) than not.


----------



## MarriedTex

Sham,

Time to rip off the band-aid and get it over with. Until you file and get the rest of your stuff & your dog out of there, you will be on pins and needles, trying to read the tea leaves every time a text comes in.

Is there any part of you that would like to see a reconciliation? You have a lot of time invested here. No one would blame you. If you see no hope for the future with her, it's time to start moving to do what you can for closure. If you have no desire to hook back up with her, it's time to start moving forward with the following:

1. File and serve the divorce papers immediately. In theory, you still have strategic advantage if she is short of cash. 

2. Find a six-month place to live. Get out of the hotel room.

3. Get the rest of the stuff and your dog. Bring friend with you.

4. Join a gym. In our area, Bally's has a $20 a month program. Look into it. Go every day. 

4. Take the rest of the week off to grieve loss of relationship but start setting up work projects for next Tuesday. Get running start for rest of your work year. 

5. Cut her out of your life like a cancer.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. You've handled the break-up phase marvelously. The best revenge, though, is living well. Time to start down this road.


----------



## crossbar

I'm just waiting for the "I just talked to my folks. Thanks for that." text.


----------



## skip76

Long time lurker finally registered to post to sham. I am captivated by your resolve and determination. What about forwarding the text to the inlaws stating "fyi, just got this text from your daughter. sounds like you guys havent talked yet. you are probably worried sick and i wanted to let you know that it reads like she is ok but worried how much i told you. i don't want to meddle but i didn't want you to worry as you were always good to me and i will miss your family greatly." Just a thought I had but you are making great decisions so far.


----------



## Shamwow

A lot of people seem to be suggesting contacting even more of our/her friends to expose her affair. I'm wondering what is the argument here? I've not read through the divorce busters stuff in detail, what is the goal here? To me it sounds like piling on for the sake of revenge, but some of the comments seem to suggest it will do HER good in the long run, and perhaps change her tune if for some reason an R became desirable. I really don't see that happening, but I'm certainly not "over it" yet, so there's a small part of my brain still thinking/wishing things could be that way. Just being honest.

As far as OMW, that I understand completely.

But I've already contacted her parents, my parents, our siblings and a few key mutual friends and calmly told my side of the story before she had a chance to. How far are you suggesting I take it, and why? And what would I say to, say, a work colleague of hers? And once again, what is the ultimate goal? To bring about HER realization of everything she has done? Is this to make her deal with it and bust her out of the fog? I think it will just PISS HER OFF, and make her think I'm being petty. But then, my natural inclinations would never have led me to do what I've done in the past few weeks, so I'm willing to listen.


----------



## seeking sanity

Okay good, you've stated your goal: If the stars align in a way you feel comfortable with, then you are open to R. Until that time, you are proceeding with divorce. Correct?

Assuming yes, I'd proceed this way: You don't tell anyone else. There is no gain in that. You DO tell the OM's wife. You explicitly state what you want from your ex once. Simple text saying: "Unless you are ready to have an honest conversation do not contact me. I will be proceeding with the divorce." 

You stay dark. You move on with your life. Get a place, get your stuff, don't engage with her, file the papers and move on with your life. If she comes to you willing to talk, you listen and go from there.

That would be my plan.


----------



## skip76

sham,

I think some sites believe in extreme exposure if trying to reconcile because facing the shame, embarrassment and remorese needed to face an exposure would change their learned behaviors and an affair would never be attempted again. Almost like how a persons pesonality can change after a traumatic event. I personally see this work best with men who can't get their stuff together but you sir have taken charge of your life. If you do not want to get back together, i would say forget it. if you do, i see it as so far down the road that i would still forget it. you got a handle on this and your actions will show everyone who is in the wrong.


----------



## girlfromipanema

I like seeking sanity's plan very much. 

I'm not a fan of mass exposure. I think it can do more damage if reconciliation is a possibility. If reconciliation is completely off the table, then I would say you expose to more if you felt it would preserve your reputation (or for whatever reason). 

However, mass exposure if reconciliation is even a slight possibility would make things quite uncomfortable - possibly for both of you.

Again, I really like seeking sanity's plan. Very proud of you, Sham.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

There are different philosophy's on exposure. At Marriage Builders they advocate exposure everywhere, to include the workplace and OMW. Some advocate exposure only to those who could have influence on changing WW's behavior. Many marriage counselors advocate no exposure at all because it can make marital recovery difficult. 

Exposing her at her employer will hurt both WW and OM, they could loose their jobs. Some employers will do nothing, however. And if WW looses her job there is an increased chance of paying alimony. However, if you do decide to reconcile, she will have to leave her job anyways to make your marriage safer.

It may be that some on this site feel your anger, and want to see some revenge for you. Or maybe they want to see how hard WW will scream when she knows her name is mud, everywhere.

Except for the OMW, you have probably exposed enough.

You should consider contacting the OMW as soon as possible. I can tell you right now that WW and OM have already considered this as a possibility.There is no benefit to waiting.

Have you ever hear of an OODA Loop ? Military pilots know they will win a dog fight, if they can observe, prepare and react in faster cycles than their opponent. You need to react faster than WW and OM for a couple days more. They are not sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen to them. They are making plans and acting on them. So don't delay contacting the OMW. 

Cypress


----------



## Whip Morgan

Sham,

I think you've been doing a good job in a bad situation. As much as everyone is cheering you on and being proud of you for standing up for yourself, no one has forgotten how painful and awful this whole mess is. A reason why this thread has so many views, I believe, is because people are witnessing a BS refusing to bow down and crumble before a WS and enabling her affair. After your initial confrontation that went south, you rebounded, took advice, and stood up for yourself. So far, well done my man.

As for her text about parents, I'd stay quiet. Further uninitiated exposure may be pointless right now- you told almost everyone who needed to know, thereby reducing the possibility that she could spin the story against you. The key that you hold - you have evidence. If people question you, all you simply have to say is: "would you like to see the proof"?

Now it is time to expose to the OM's wife. You know it, everyone else knows it. I understand your feelings about sitting on the fence. But as you've done on everything else so far, time to get off of it. Do the right thing here, tell the OM's wife. Have proof ready, in case she refuses to believe you. And do not tell anyone you intend to do so. 

Stay strong bud, you're inspiring a lot of people here.


----------



## Chaparral

chapparal said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Regarding Dirty Ba$tards wife not being on facebook. I can't put my wife's name on my profile page because she doesn't have an acct.
> 
> Right now Dirty Ba$tard is sitting home banging his wife with another mans wife waiting in the wings. He must be thinking of himself as King of the bedsheets right now. He's burning up their phones talking smack against Shamwow. Meanwhile, Shamwow is holed up in a hotel suffering ,drinking scotch.
> 
> If it were me, I would be on the next plane to Pasedena or where ever. Hand deliver all my info to Dirty Ba$tards wife and watch his sh!t crash and burn.
> 
> I would then come back and work on wife and take her away from him too. Talk about me like he's done Shamwow? Throw me under the bus so he can bang my wife. I would show him the alpha and omega of an alpha male and show my wife too.
> 
> Good Luck Sham ,praying for you
> 
> Chap



You've told everybody you need to except one. Get on the stick.


----------



## Chaparral

seeking sanity said:


> Okay good, you've stated your goal: If the stars align in a way you feel comfortable with, then you are open to R. Until that time, you are proceeding with divorce. Correct?
> 
> Assuming yes, I'd proceed this way: You don't tell anyone else. There is no gain in that. You DO tell the OM's wife. You explicitly state what you want from your ex once. Simple text saying: "Unless you are ready to have an honest conversation do not contact me. I will be proceeding with the divorce."
> 
> You stay dark. You move on with your life. Get a place, get your stuff, don't engage with her, file the papers and move on with your life. If she comes to you willing to talk, you listen and go from there.
> 
> That would be my plan.


Ding ding ding ding:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


OMG..........Best post of day


----------



## rotor

Catherine602 said:


> Sham watch your back. She request help from you to deal with her parents. How do you like that? She did not ask how you are doing or if there is anything she can do or say to express how sorry she is that she srewed up. What is in her mind that she thinks that she should suffer no consequences for her transgressions. There is an arrogance and artfulness that is scary. Take note.
> 
> Have you observered her in situations that were dicey and she had to get her azzz out of a crack, what was she like? That's the person you are going to be dealing with from now on. She had an ex, how did she talk about him and treat him throughout the D process? This is the person you will be dealing with.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine, 

I have been following this thread and keep seeing red flags in a lot of Shams comments that to me at least seem to suggest sociopathic behavior. From what I understand Sociopaths in the true sense honestly don’t think the rules apply to them because they are above it all.

If that is the case, sham could be dealing with a very dangerous person that is capable of literally anything and will keep going like the energizer bunny until they 'win'. There are no rules.


Here check this out. Profile of the Sociopath 


Sham, like Catherine said, whatch your back bro.


Regards,

rotor


----------



## MarriedTex

seeking sanity said:


> Okay good, you've stated your goal: If the stars align in a way you feel comfortable with, then you are open to R. Until that time, you are proceeding with divorce. Correct?
> 
> Assuming yes, I'd proceed this way: You don't tell anyone else. There is no gain in that. You DO tell the OM's wife. You explicitly state what you want from your ex once. Simple text saying: "Unless you are ready to have an honest conversation do not contact me. I will be proceeding with the divorce."
> 
> You stay dark. You move on with your life. Get a place, get your stuff, don't engage with her, file the papers and move on with your life. If she comes to you willing to talk, you listen and go from there.
> 
> That would be my plan.


I agree that no further exposure to friends is necessary, particularly if you harbor longshot hopes of reconciliation. You have done what is necessary to get your story out but have not acted in a vindictive way. You stand on the high moral ground here.

On the OMW, it depends on how fast you want to get to an answer on reconciliation. Contacting OMW will bring issue to a head more quickly. If OM was planning to divorce wife to hook up with Mrs. Sham over the long haul, contacting OMW would likely foil those plans.

However, if Mrs. Sham and other guy have already broken up twice, chance are that they will again in the next three months. Ostensibly, Sham would not be "blamed" for breaking up her fantasy relationship with OM. This, however, is longshot hypothetical.

Overall, I'd go with Sanity's plan above, pushing forward on setting up Sham life post Mrs. Sham. Counter-intuitively, the more you show you can move on without her, the more attractive you may become to her. But, for any chance of long-term reconciliation, she has to be the one starting the mea culpas.


----------



## DanG

Sham,

Agree on the "p*ss her off" concerns. Similarly, same downside to contacting the OMW. Cornering her (or any creature) only results in a desperate effort to save face and escape. AND, you had better have sufficient resouces and skill to deal with a near self-destructive charge in the process. Ultimately, I believe such action will ELIMINATE any chance for R. It is non-productive.

As to productive means to R, I'm thinking that her parents may have a place. BUT, IMO SHE is going to have to pick up ALL the pieces to get the R-Train rolling - else it will only be a repeat of her storied past. Can a tiger change it's stripes?

As far a D goes, you have done a WONDERFUL job of doing what you had to do, AND in doing so you have also set her up to have to be RESPONSIBLE for the next move - whatever it may be - D or R. Keep it that way! Hold the high ground. Make her either fight her way back to you, or take the low road far from your sight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

rotor said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I have been following this thread and keep seeing red flags in a lot of Shams comments that to me at least seem to suggest sociopathic behavior. From what I understand Sociopaths in the true sense honestly don’t think the rules apply to them because they are above it all.
> 
> If that is the case, sham could be dealing with a very dangerous person that is capable of literally anything and will keep going like the energizer bunny until they 'win'. There are no rules.
> 
> 
> Here check this out. Profile of the Sociopath
> 
> 
> Sham, like Catherine said, whatch your back bro.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> rotor



Good point...I have seen her morph into a machine when faced with something really stressful or contrary to her goal. She will go dark as night on anyone that crosses her bad enough, she has cut people out of a birthday party the night before because they called to say they may be a bit late, and as far as my mom goes...look out. So yeah, she is above it all in a lot of ways. When I point these things out, the sound really bad. Perhaps I just looked past it because she didn't direct it at me. I'm starting to know what it feels like now.

She may trash me to the nines to our friends and (especially) my family, for example, now that I have exposed to her parents. I can't prevent this. I've laid some good groundwork at least. But I'll keep an eye out...really don't expect a dagger in the kidney or anything. If I had betrayed HER...maybe.


----------



## Shamwow

Just want to clarify that I am not looking for R with her. I really think even if I wanted it, she has displayed that she wanted out anyway, so it would be a foolish fantasy. Just acknowleding the fact that I am not over her (as she used to be). This new girl? I will divorce in a heartbeat. But if I started seeing flickers of the girl I knew for so long, it would be tempting, far down the road, to wish it could be so. I am not in denial about this though. She effed up, she was on her way out, she was discussing it with everyone but m, she is lying to me every word she says, she hasn't taken one bit of this on herself, and if that's the way it's gonna be I am not sorry for one second that I'm proceeding with D.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> Sham,
> 
> I think you've been doing a good job in a bad situation. As much as everyone is cheering you on and being proud of you for standing up for yourself, no one has forgotten how painful and awful this whole mess is. A reason why this thread has so many views, I believe, is because people are witnessing a BS refusing to bow down and crumble before a WS and enabling her affair. After your initial confrontation that went south, you rebounded, took advice, and stood up for yourself. So far, well done my man.
> 
> As for her text about parents, I'd stay quiet. Further uninitiated exposure may be pointless right now- you told almost everyone who needed to know, thereby reducing the possibility that she could spin the story against you. The key that you hold - you have evidence. If people question you, all you simply have to say is: "would you like to see the proof"?
> 
> Now it is time to expose to the OM's wife. You know it, everyone else knows it. I understand your feelings about sitting on the fence. But as you've done on everything else so far, time to get off of it. Do the right thing here, tell the OM's wife. Have proof ready, in case she refuses to believe you. And do not tell anyone you intend to do so.
> 
> Stay strong bud, you're inspiring a lot of people here.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Just want to clarify that I am not looking for R with her. I really think even if I wanted it, she has displayed that she wanted out anyway, so it would be a foolish fantasy. Just acknowleding the fact that I am not over her (as she used to be). This new girl? I will divorce in a heartbeat. But if I started seeing flickers of the girl I knew for so long, it would be tempting, far down the road, to wish it could be so. I am not in denial about this though. She effed up, she was on her way out, she was discussing it with everyone but m, she is lying to me every word she says, she hasn't taken one bit of this on herself, and if that's the way it's gonna be I am not sorry for one second that I'm proceeding with D.


Yes. :iagree:

This is healthy thinking.


----------



## Chaparral

rotor said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I have been following this thread and keep seeing red flags in a lot of Shams comments that to me at least seem to suggest sociopathic behavior. From what I understand Sociopaths in the true sense honestly don’t think the rules apply to them because they are above it all.
> 
> If that is the case, sham could be dealing with a very dangerous person that is capable of literally anything and will keep going like the energizer bunny until they 'win'. There are no rules.
> 
> 
> Here check this out. Profile of the Sociopath
> 
> 
> Sham, like Catherine said, whatch your back bro.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> rotor


I have the opposite view:


Too many nights alone on the road. 
Finally got drunk started EA
Completely scammed/conned by married man
Broke up twice
Came home lost didn't find what looking for
Went back
Going to Vegas
Not going to Vegas 
Called home crying Sham still stays home 
Going to Vegas
Goes to Vegas probably PA
Comes home
LOOKS FOR JOB IN HOME TOWN
Short texts made to sound like coming from mouth of satan by online posters
Completely taken aback by husband getting texts and has no idea what to do or say now knowing how she would feel
Sending feelers... no response 
No help from any quarter she can trust


----------



## crossbar

Well, I understand that you're not looking to R with your WW. But, I still believe that the OMW has a right to know.

I bet that after the first night after you left you stated there was about 50,000 texts between them. I'm only guessing here, but if you've monitored it any further, I'm speculating that is dwindled down to almost nothing. This would probably suggest that he threw her under the bus. "oh, your husband found out about us? He left you? Wow...sorry to here that......... Call me sometime."

He destroyed your marriage with the help of your WW, and if he did it once and got away with it, he'll do it again to someone else. His wife has the right to know what kind of man she married. She has the right to be fully informed, so she can make an informed decision of what she wants to do with her marriage. If it were me, I would want someone to tell me.

Now the reason people are pushing the issue so hard is because he's had time to inform his wife that if some crazy dude calls up excusing me of something, it isn't true. This guy is on heavy meds and his wife told me he's stopped taking them and is extremely paranoid. Right now, she loves him and trusts him. So, why wouldn't she believe him. So, strike while it's hot dude!


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Just want to clarify that I am not looking for R with her. I really think even if I wanted it, she has displayed that she wanted out anyway, so it would be a foolish fantasy. Just acknowleding the fact that I am not over her (as she used to be). This new girl? I will divorce in a heartbeat. But if I started seeing flickers of the girl I knew for so long, it would be tempting, far down the road, to wish it could be so. I am not in denial about this though. She effed up, she was on her way out, she was discussing it with everyone but m, she is lying to me every word she says, she hasn't taken one bit of this on herself, and if that's the way it's gonna be I am not sorry for one second that I'm proceeding with D.


When did she say she wanted out, before or after OM started scamming her?


----------



## the guy

Just keep the exposure to close family and friends, for the simple reason to protect your reputation, so for any one that can effect your reputation or you count on for support, then IMO they should be informed.


----------



## Catherine602

Shamwow said:


> A lot of people seem to be suggesting contacting even more of our/her friends to expose her affair. I'm wondering what is the argument here? I've not read through the divorce busters stuff in detail, what is the goal here? To me it sounds like piling on for the sake of revenge, but some of the comments seem to suggest it will do HER good in the long run, and perhaps change her tune if for some reason an R became desirable. I really don't see that happening, but I'm certainly not "over it" yet, so there's a small part of my brain still thinking/wishing things could be that way. Just being honest.
> 
> As far as OMW, that I understand completely.
> 
> But I've already contacted her parents, my parents, our siblings and a few key mutual friends and calmly told my side of the story before she had a chance to. How far are you suggesting I take it, and why? And what would I say to, say, a work colleague of hers? And once again, what is the ultimate goal? To bring about HER realization of everything she has done? Is this to make her deal with it and bust her out of the fog? I think it will just PISS HER OFF, and make her think I'm being petty. But then, my natural inclinations would never have led me to do what I've done in the past few weeks, so I'm willing to listen.


Great questions. I distrust formula's because they are too perceptive. It takes common sense and a clear notion of where you are headed to come up with a specific plan. Going off half ****ed just to be in motion is a waste of time.

I would only do what makes sense to you. As you say, you are not sure where you are headed. We can speculate that she has all kinds of mental illnesses but the only one she has for sure is fogititis. Makes people do crazy things. 

You know her so you know if this is temporary insanity and out of character or a pattern that you have seen before. I just don't see telling everyone and their mother when you have not even had a conversation with her and you don't know where you are headed. 

It will make you appear like a weak and whinny girl crying to everyone. Act like you can take care of your business and you don't need a posse to tell you what you need to do. 

Any act of vindictiveness and vengeance will also make you appear weak and out of control. She is looking for your buttons to push because the usual ones are not working. 

It is useful to keep her guessing. If the marriage is over you don't want her to predict you next move. I you R, you don't want to be the same person that she felt she could disrespect. 

I think you can afford to wait her out see what she does. It's early days yet and it may fall either way. In my opinion, you are in vigilance/protective/information gathering mode. Your activities are devoted to protecting your flanks, info gathering so you have a clear picture of what she is doing and what options you want to pursue. 

If you act too hastily, you may unknowingly limit your options. As long as you have secured your assets, established a home base and you are working on a plan, whats the rush? 

The road ahead is not clear yet because you have not communicated with her. She needs to reveal herself more. You may also put a time limit on it and pull the plug if there is no movement on her part in the desired direction. 

The advice is coming fast and furious but remember this is your life not a one hr drama on TV. You have plenty of time to think things out. If it is not entertaining enough for the watchers they can turn to another channel.


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> Well, I understand that you're not looking to R with your WW. But, I still believe that the OMW has a right to know.
> 
> I bet that after the first night after you left you stated there was about 50,000 texts between them. I'm only guessing here, but if you've monitored it any further, I'm speculating that is dwindled down to almost nothing. This would probably suggest that he threw her under the bus. "oh, your husband found out about us? He left you? Wow...sorry to here that......... Call me sometime."
> 
> He destroyed your marriage with the help of your WW, and if he did it once and got away with it, he'll do it again to someone else. His wife has the right to know what kind of man she married. She has the right to be fully informed, so she can make an informed decision of what she wants to do with her marriage. If it were me, I would want someone to tell me.
> 
> Now the reason people are pushing the issue so hard is because he's had time to inform his wife that if some crazy dude calls up excusing me of something, it isn't true. This guy is on heavy meds and his wife told me he's stopped taking them and is extremely paranoid. Right now, she loves him and trusts him. So, why wouldn't she believe him. So, strike while it's hot dude!


The texting has dwindled. But I'm sure it's just because she told him she has no idea what I have access to, so they should cool it for a while.

He sent her an email yesterday saying "How goes the not texting?"

And he's been sending her movie gifts on iTunes to help her pass the time. (hey, at least it's not porn!)

I can't imagine him saying that to his wife (if some crazy guy calls accusing me of something...), that would be the most suspicious behavior in the book. He could however tell his wife that a friend of his has a husband went crazy off his meds, as an anecdote. And then is hoping that if I call, she won't find it odd the exact same guy called her to tell her of an affair, see it as suspicious, and call him on it. I think he's screwed and he knows it. He's just hoping I won't do it.

He knows that even if this is "over" between them (OM and my W), that he has a massive skeleton in his closet for all time, until it comes out. He must be nervous.

Thinking tomorrow around 11am, odds are she'd be at work, and he wouldn't be able to intercept or interfere.


----------



## crossbar

Catherine602 said:


> The advice is coming fast and furious but remember this is your life not a one hr drama on TV. You have plenty of time to think things out. If it is not entertaining enough for the watchers they can turn to another channel.


With all due respect, I think the majority of us don't view Sham's situation at entertainment, actually its a little heartbreaking; but yet, inspirational to see the strength that Sham has in this difficult time. Hell, I wish I had a forum like this when I was going through my mess.

I truely feel that most posters have Sham's best interest at heart, even if their comments are a little colorful.

Oh and Sham, I'm not saying that he told his wife that you are off your meds. The point is, cheaters are very good liars and, given enough time, he would have concocted a viable story for his wife to believe if you called.


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> When did she say she wanted out, before or after OM started scamming her?


Far as I can tell (and I don't have every detail and date of the texts, etc) about the same time (maybe 2 weeks before she came back from 10-wk trip? About mid June). It seems something happened on the road, whether with OM or a "hotel guy" or someone else. A groping, a kiss, maybe more. Her and OM started sliding into friendly texting nonstop, sexting after that, video chat, shared porn, planning for Vegas encounter and then god knows what. The minute she came back she started talking to a few friends about being confused and wanting to leave me. I had seen her at the end of May briefly and she was all happy tears, hugs and kisses (I presume...sure felt like it, trust me, I've seen enough of her unhappy tears lately to know the difference). So I think it happened AFTER that, and BEFORE she came home at the end of June.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I don't think that people are viewing this as entertainment but rather thinking "wow, I wish I had done that!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> I have the opposite view:
> 
> 
> Too many nights alone on the road.
> Finally got drunk started EA
> Completely scammed/conned by married man
> Broke up twice
> Came home lost didn't find what looking for
> Went back
> Going to Vegas
> Not going to Vegas
> Called home crying Sham still stays home
> Going to Vegas
> Goes to Vegas probably PA
> Comes home
> LOOKS FOR JOB IN HOME TOWN
> Short texts made to sound like coming from mouth of satan by online posters
> Completely taken aback by husband getting texts and has no idea what to do or say now knowing how she would feel
> Sending feelers... no response
> No help from any quarter she can trust


You left out:

Immediately confronted by lawyered-up husband
Blindsided that he knows so much
Offered chance after chance to tell her side of story
Denies
Denies
Lies
Denies
Cries
Ignores problems for two days before husband walks without saying a word



Curious, seems you're seeing her from a more human aspect, and I appreciate that, because that's what I've been doing. But...she sure hasn't acted like it lately.


----------



## Shaggy

Her lying etc is completely consistent with a wayward. She saw no advantage to her in coming clean and she had to inkling you would find out man up and deal with it like you have. 

The outrageous and egregious thing is running off to Vegas in such a blatant slap in your face way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Sham,
For what its worth, (being a dog lover) thanks for breaking the NC with stxw for the sake of the dogs.

I pat you on the back you handled it well.

I hope you find a place soon for the dog/s. I know its tough and they miss you, but once you get the lab results and contact your STXW you will be able to see them soon.

Be good bro


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Far as I can tell (and I don't have every detail and date of the texts, etc) about the same time (maybe 2 weeks before she came back from 10-wk trip? About mid June). It seems something happened on the road, whether with OM or a "hotel guy" or someone else. A groping, a kiss, maybe more. Her and OM started sliding into friendly texting nonstop, sexting after that, video chat, shared porn, planning for Vegas encounter and then god knows what. The minute she came back she started talking to a few friends about being confused and wanting to leave me. I had seen her at the end of May briefly and she was all happy tears, hugs and kisses (I presume...sure felt like it, trust me, I've seen enough of her unhappy tears lately to know the difference). So I think it happened AFTER that, and BEFORE she came home at the end of June.


Yes, the ten week trip was the deal. I don't t was something small. But what it was was a change in her mind that it was going to ok to cheat. The fact she turned off the sex with you is still amazing to me. Then again ten weeks is a long time. So it was probably a series of things that amounted to a lifestyle change. Didn't we say somewhere that she had inappripriate behavior with other memebers of the team? I mean the guy made the trip to her site. Who does that? Has it happened before? Maybe this she was not so quick to pull back the sex. Maybe she had indescretions before but decided on this trip it was ok because the OM showed a comittment by being there the whole time.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> You left out:
> 
> Immediately confronted by lawyered-up husband
> Blindsided that he knows so much
> Offered chance after chance to tell her side of story
> Denies
> Denies
> Lies
> Denies
> Cries
> Ignores problems for two days before husband walks without saying a word
> 
> 
> 
> Curious, seems you're seeing her from a more human aspect, and I appreciate that, because that's what I've been doing. But...she sure hasn't acted like it lately.


Looks for job in HIS hometown isn't it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> Looks for job in HIS hometown isn't it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Yep
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! Sham you're a class act. I am so anxious for you to get through this and be in a good place!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Text: "Do we get split custody of the car or are you gonna give me half the value so I can buy something?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

She's really making it hard to not reply with this kinda stuff. Making me feel like an ahole.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Text: "Do we get split custody of the car or are you gonna give me half the value so I can buy something?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Well Sham here you have it 
She was expecting this divorce apparently, she wanted out 

Sorry but nothing you did not know already


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> She's really making it hard to not reply with this kinda stuff. Making me feel like an ahole.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't reply 

Counter productive 

she is trying to get some reaction from you


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Text: "Do we get split custody of the car or are you gonna give me half the value so I can buy something?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Text back: "I have to consult with my lawyer before making any financial commitments. Car issue is part of larger discussion of fairly splitting our debts and assets."


----------



## aug

Is it really your problem?

She has her own money. 

She's playing you. She has that financial advisor. She has her parents. She has cheques coming.

Dont respond to her text. She found an opening with the dog and is now wedging it wider.


----------



## aug

When you and your lawyer are ready, let your lawyer respond to her lawyer.

You dont want to set any precedent now and make your lawyer work harder.


----------



## golfergirl

aug said:


> Is it really your problem?
> 
> She has her own money.
> 
> She's playing you. She has that financial advisor. She has her parents. She has cheques coming.
> 
> Dont respond to her text. She found an opening with the dog and is now wedging it wider.


I agree. Why feel like an a$$hole - she's being a beeyotch. She's not sorry - she's been inconvenienced. It's still all about her! Why doesn't one of her skanky friends who helped encourage her deception drive her around?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedTex

MarriedTex said:


> Text back: "I have to consult with my lawyer before making any financial commitments. Car issue is part of larger discussion of fairly splitting our debts and assets."


Reading other people's responses, I respectfully withdraw the suggestion. Let her twist in silence. Getting close to time of blocking her or getting new phone.


----------



## aug

She knows the divorce game, having gone thru it once before.

Be careful not to lock yourself down or commit to anything.


----------



## golfergirl

MarriedTex said:


> Text back: "I have to consult with my lawyer before making any financial commitments. Car issue is part of larger discussion of fairly splitting our debts and assets."


Even trade - you took the car - she took your future as you knew it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

:iagree:
Have your lawyer reply...........


----------



## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> Even trade - you took the car - she took your future as you knew it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am getting madder and madder for you. Why would that statement make you feel guilty as opposed to burning your butt? It's selfish, snotty and still all about stuff. Nothing to do with what she has done to you.
What had she done with proceeds of her car sale?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedTex

She has not uttered one word of remorse. No explanation. No apology. At the very least, she's making it easier and easier for you to move on.

It's natural for you to feel pangs of guilt or to feel like the a-hole. You've spend the better part of the past decade caring for and nurturing this woman. It's tough to turn that around in a week - no matter what she has done to you.

If you ever feel like giving in, go back to the middle part of this thread and remember what you felt like when she decided to go on to Vegas over your protests. That should give you a pretty clear guidepost for how you should treat her.

You're doing a great job of not letting the anger cloud your vision. But you also have to hold a sliver of that anger while you remain in mode of de-tangling from each other's lives.


----------



## golfergirl

What has she texted that has anything to do with anything else than her. Even the dog food was manipulation back to - her. It's like a little kid, 'me me me me'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Text back. "Can't talk now, I'm off to Vegas with a couple of buddies for the weekend"

Or alternatively: Can't, sold it to buy dog food

Or just stay dark a little longer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Sham,

What do you know about her first marriage and how it ended?


----------



## Chaparral

golfergirl said:


> Looks for job in HIS hometown isn't it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She used Shams car to go apply for a job just before Sham left.


----------



## Shamwow

Guess I'm just feeling this way because of a few texts from the stash I found. From about six weeks ago.

Male work friend of hers in town (that I know and will never hang out with again): "Don't cry. Smile. New life is coming. It'll get harder before it gets easier, but you'll look back and be proud you took your life into your own hands."

Her: "The thing is I have no emotions about the marriage dissolving. Its really easy for me. "

Then: "Dude. You dont know me. I will never have emotions over this"


Kind of puts it all in perspective.

Wanted to text back something like "Not sure about the car...You wanted to bleed me dry for the next few months while you f***ed other guys, talked s**t about me, and asked me for money to finance your sex vacation with two *********s. We'll have to see how that factors into determining split custody of the car."


----------



## golfergirl

chapparal said:


> She used Shams car to go apply for a job just before Sham left.


That is true but Sham confirmed 2 days prior to that looked for job in OM's home town.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> Sham,
> 
> What do you know about her first marriage and how it ended?


Well, what she's always *told* me (and I believed up until recently), was that they were first loves, they ran away together when they were 17, married at 19. He became verbally and emotionally abusive, dismissive of her feelings, needs and constantly told her what was wrong with her appearance. He said he didn't want kids. After the divorce he immediately hooked up with a girl that had all the physical traits that he was trying to get her to change herself to be more like, and subsequently had a kid right away. She said he was into strip clubs and voyeurism and made her feel unloved. He couldn't hold a job (musician), and she had to support them by managing a gas station.

She also told me about the way she left, and it's exactly what I'm experiencing (or was). She told me (in reference to her own exit) that the woman has it planned out months in advance, car, money stashed, new place to live, prob a new bf prospect lined up, all papers filed, and the guy doesn't find out until the hammer drops that anything was happening.

Exactly what she was doing to me. But I cut her plan off at the knees and took it over. So she's pissed.

I always thought he was a complete a-hole for treating her that way, but am now thinking theres a WHOLE LOT more to that story than what she told me. Guessing her next partners will hear the same thing about me. And think "Geez, how could ANYONE treat you so poorly? You're so beautiful and awesome and smart and fun!"

Sigh...


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Guess I'm just feeling this way because of a few texs from the stash I found. From about six weeks ago.
> 
> Male work friend of hers in town (that I know and will never hang out with again): "Don't cry. Smile. New life is coming. It'll get harder before it gets easier, but you'll look back and be proud you took your life into your own hands."
> 
> Her: "The thing is I have no emotions about the marriage dissolving. Its really easy for me. "
> 
> 
> Kind of puts it al in perspective.
> 
> Wanted to text back something like "Not sure...You wanted to bleed me dry for the next few months while you f***ed other guys, talked s**t about me, and asked me for money to finance your sex vacation with two *********s. We'll have to see how that factors into determining split custody of the car."


I know it's tempting to text something like this. But you maintain more control by staying dark. At this point, she is poison to you. Any interaction exposes you to someone without your best interests at heart who also happens to know your vulnerabilities as well as anyone. 

I just get mad just seeing you having to go through this. She's almost treating it as a game. Stay away from her. Let the lawyer handle it. She's toxic. 

Thank the Lord you don't have children with her. Once you get your dog and your stuff, you get a clean chance to move on. Start running and do not look back.


----------



## MarriedTex

Sham,

Curious. After the divorce is finalized, will you send Ex a link to this forum? Would not suggest doing it beforehand, of course.


----------



## Shamwow

MarriedTex said:


> I know it's tempting to text something like this. But you maintain more control by staying dark. At this point, she is poison to you. Any interaction exposes you to someone without your best interests at heart who also happens to know your vulnerabilities as well as anyone.
> 
> I just get mad just seeing you having to go through this. She's almost treating it as a game. Stay away from her. Let the lawyer handle it. She's toxic.
> 
> Thank the Lord you don't have children with her. Once you get your dog and your stuff, you get a clean chance to move on. Start running and do not look back.


Thanks, I know. I didn't respond. But the indifference hurts more than any affair could. Seems like I just keep finding more reasons to feel fleeced. While treating her like gold trying to figure out why she was down, feeling like I was doing things wrong that caused her to feel this way.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Guess I'm just feeling this way because of a few texs from the stash I found. From about six weeks ago.
> 
> Male work friend of hers in town (that I know and will never hang out with again): "Don't cry. Smile. New life is coming. It'll get harder before it gets easier, but you'll look back and be proud you took your life into your own hands."
> 
> Her: "The thing is I have no emotions about the marriage dissolving. Its really easy for me. "
> 
> 
> Kind of puts it al in perspective.
> 
> Wanted to text back something like "Not sure...You wanted to bleed me dry for the next few months while you f***ed other guys, talked s**t about me, and asked me for money to finance your sex vacation with two *********s. We'll have to see how that factors into determining split custody of the car."


A lot of things have happened since then. I really doubt she's feeling that way now.


----------



## Shamwow

MarriedTex said:


> Sham,
> 
> Curious. After the divorce is finalized, will you send Ex a link to this forum? Would not suggest doing it beforehand, of course.


Maybe. Maybe not. But perhaps she'll notice it when the story is published as a book, as someone suggested.


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Thanks, I know. I didn't respond. But the indifference hurts more than any affair could. Seems like I just keep finding more reasons to feel fleeced. While treating her like gold trying to figure out why she was down.


How often are you going to your therapist? You should make a note to discuss this specific issue with them. You will need to come to terms with this in a healthy way before you can commit yourself fully to another relationship down the line.

The good news is that, for you, there will be another great relationship down the line. In your age bracket, stable, employable, single men are a valued commodity. Once you are ready to get back out there, you will have your pick of great women. No solace, I know. You thought you already had a great woman. But a better one is around the corner. I can feel it.


----------



## girlfromipanema

I don't know what to say. Her behavior is crazy making. I'm so very sorry. 

Get some rest. Tomorrow is another big day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Well, what she's always *told* me (and I believed up until recently), was that they were first loves, they ran away together when they were 17, married at 19. He became verbally and emotionally abusive, dismissive of her feelings, needs and constantly told her what was wrong with her appearance. He said he didn't want kids. After the divorce he immediately hooked up with a girl that had all the physical traits that he was trying to get her to change herself to be more like, and subsequently had a kid right away. She said he was into strip clubs and voyeurism and made her feel unloved. He couldn't hold a job (musician), and she had to support them by managing a gas station.
> 
> She also told me about the way she left, and it's exactly what I'm experiencing (or was). She told me (in reference to her own exit) that the woman has it planned out months in advance, car, money stashed, new place to live, prob a new bf prospect lined up, all papers filed, and the guy doesn't find out until the hammer drops that anything was happening.
> 
> Exactly what she was doing to me. But I cut her plan off at the knees and took it over. So she's pissed.
> 
> I always thought he was a complete a-hole for treating her that way, but am now thinking theres a WHOLE LOT more to that story than what she told me. Guessing her next partners will hear the same thing about me. And think "Geez, how could ANYONE treat you so poorly? You're so beautiful and awesome and smart and fun!"
> 
> Sigh...


yup, the cycle repeats. 

Except this time it's different because you have the internet.


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. But perhaps she'll notice it when the story is published as a book, as someone suggested.


At the very least, we're getting to the point where somebody could make money producing a Cliffs' Notes version of this thread


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

I think its time to stop reading those texts. It's not going to help you heal from the betrayal and loss. At some point, hopefully soon, you will be able to delete them all and move on.

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

MarriedTex said:


> How often are you going to your therapist? You should make a note to discuss this specific issue with them. You will need to come to terms with this in a healthy way before you can commit yourself fully to another relationship down the line.
> 
> The good news is that, for you, there will be another great relationship down the line. In your age bracket, stable, employable, single men are a valued commodity. Once you are ready to get back out there, you will have your pick of great women. No solace, I know. You thought you already had a great woman. But a better one is around the corner. I can feel it.


Twice a week the last two weeks. Going to once a week now. I'll make a note of this and bring it up, thanks.

And I've been hit on several times the last couple days, not wearing a wedding ring and all. Guess losing those 50 lbs may have upped my sex rank.  I think I'll be fine too. Just can't imagine being ready to get back out there for a long time. I hate dating. Maybe I'll like it this time, who knows...


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> She also told me about the way she left, and it's exactly what I'm experiencing (or was). She told me (in reference to her own exit) that the woman has it planned out months in advance, *car, money stashed*, new place to live, prob a new bf prospect lined up, all papers filed, and the guy doesn't find out until the hammer drops that anything was happening.
> 
> Exactly what she was doing to me. But I cut her plan off at the knees and took it over. So she's pissed.


The bold above explains the financial advisor's phone number.

She has money hidden. F* her. Dont give her a cent.

Aside: she's able to detach herself -- probably from years of practice.


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> How did her other marriage end?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


[see post at the top of the previous page]


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> I think its time to stop reading those texts. It's not going to help you heal from the betrayal and loss. At some point, hopefully soon, you will be able to delete them all and move on.
> 
> Cypress


I agree...I've just been prepping them for if OMW would like to see some evidence. If I sent them in the visual state that they originally come out of the backup log in, it's like reading the Matrix. Just cleaning them up so the important stuff is easy for her to read.


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> [see post at the top of the previous page]


My stupid BB is so slow! I read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> Text back. "Can't talk now, I'm off to Vegas with a couple of buddies for the weekend"
> 
> Or alternatively: Can't, sold it to buy dog food
> 
> Or just stay dark a little longer
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dark is power. She sees you replying to her as weak.


----------



## washburn

Time to contact OMW and finally get those divorce papers squared away

One question, how soon will you be ready to get your own apt. and then subsequently reclaim your goods and dog from her house?


----------



## Shamwow

washburn said:


> Time to contact OMW and finally get those divorce papers squared away
> 
> One question, how soon will you be ready to get your own apt. and then subsequently reclaim your goods and dog from her house?


Hoping to be moved in early next week...Tues or Wed. Looking at places tomorrow.

Going out of town to visit an old friend this weekend.

I presume I can have all of my stuff moved out mid-next week and be fully set up to settle in and work the next day.


----------



## Shamwow

Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?

Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."

She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...

Guessing this is not a ploy to make me think this or that (though I'm used to being plenty paranoid these days, so who knows). Something went down on his end too. Perhaps she caught on to the same red flags that I did recently? Should I still contact OMW? I have no idea what's going on in their marriage, nor do I have any right to...but if for example she ends up taking him back, and this current spat has nothing to do with him and my W and what I know, that info could help her avoid an R that she wouldn't want...

This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a whimper. And...two marriages destroyed. As my wife would say, "Braaavo."

Man, I tell ya...when the s**t winds blow...

I'm going to bed.


----------



## AFEH

Shamwow said:


> A lot of people seem to be suggesting contacting even more of our/her friends to expose her affair. I'm wondering what is the argument here? I've not read through the divorce busters stuff in detail, what is the goal here? To me it sounds like piling on for the sake of revenge, but some of the comments seem to suggest it will do HER good in the long run, and perhaps change her tune if for some reason an R became desirable. I really don't see that happening, but I'm certainly not "over it" yet, so there's a small part of my brain still thinking/wishing things could be that way. Just being honest.
> 
> As far as OMW, that I understand completely.
> 
> But I've already contacted her parents, my parents, our siblings and a few key mutual friends and calmly told my side of the story before she had a chance to. How far are you suggesting I take it, and why? And what would I say to, say, a work colleague of hers? And once again, what is the ultimate goal? To bring about HER realization of everything she has done? Is this to make her deal with it and bust her out of the fog? I think it will just PISS HER OFF, and make her think I'm being petty. But then, my natural inclinations would never have led me to do what I've done in the past few weeks, so I'm willing to listen.


Sham your intuition/instincts/gut feelings in these things are utterly spot on.


There is absolutely no need to contact anyone else than who you have so far (other than OMW). It is something some here recommend but I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT “WORK”! If you do contact work colleagues et al it will start up a whole sh!te storm coming your way which you just don’t need plus you will be seen as a bitter, revengeful and small minded “small man”. Which going on the way you have behaved so far you are most certainly not.

Bob


----------



## Almostrecovered

as you state, you have no idea what is going on in OM's marriage, thus you should still contact his wife. If she already knows, then no biggie and maybe even she has info you don't. She may even be confused as to why they are getting divorced and even think it's because of something she did, this would give her some absolution.


----------



## golfergirl

Almostrecovered said:


> as you state, you have no idea what is going on in OM's marriage, thus you should still contact his wife. If she already knows, then no biggie and maybe even she has info you don't. She may even be confused as to why they are getting divorced and even think it's because of something she did, this would give her some absolution.



Or it could be said to throw you off thinking, 'why bother telling her, she already knows' especially given the comment you're 'probably' reading that email.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your sitting on the fence, get off and stop procrastinating call the OM's wife and expose this affair. They are assuming you can see the mails hence the OM comments. Find out where he works and expose there as well, when you take him out you do so properly no drip drip . The longer you wait the worse it will be for you, of you don't believe me read the many posts made to BS who have delayed and/or chosen a different path , read the hell they have been through.

I really do not want to get into a debate on why you should expose to his side , the professionals who have experience at this propose the exposure so this is not a personal opinion , this is from people dedicated to giving you the best way forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Almostrecovered said:


> as you state, you have no idea what is going on in OM's marriage, thus you should still contact his wife. If she already knows, then no biggie and maybe even she has info you don't. She may even be confused as to why they are getting divorced and even think it's because of something she did, this would give her some absolution.


Agree 

Only when you talk to her will you hear the truth and if it is so she may even use the evidence against her husband if it comes to a divorce .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?
> 
> Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."
> 
> She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...
> 
> Guessing this is not a ploy to make me think this or that (though I'm used to being plenty paranoid these days, so who knows). Something went down on his end too. Perhaps she caught on to the same red flags that I did recently? Should I still contact OMW? I have no idea what's going on in their marriage, nor do I have any right to...but if for example she ends up taking him back, and this current spat has nothing to do with him and my W and what I know, that info could help her avoid an R that she wouldn't want...
> 
> This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a whimper. And...two marriages destroyed. As my wife would say, "Braaavo."
> 
> Man, I tell ya...when the s**t winds blow...
> 
> I'm going to bed.


With the way you dealt with your wife, the guy probably came clean with his wife to control the situation. He knew it was coming. Men who take another guys wife, and have the presence of mind to send a jab to you in the emails like he just did, often do not have the same mindset as women who cheat. Delayed stress, waiting for your call, is insufferable. By controlling the exchange, he can make sure that the poor woman feels like it is her fault that he cheated.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?
> 
> Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."
> 
> She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...
> 
> Guessing this is not a ploy to make me think this or that (though I'm used to being plenty paranoid these days, so who knows). Something went down on his end too. Perhaps she caught on to the same red flags that I did recently? Should I still contact OMW? I have no idea what's going on in their marriage, nor do I have any right to...but if for example she ends up taking him back, and this current spat has nothing to do with him and my W and what I know, that info could help her avoid an R that she wouldn't want...
> 
> This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a whimper. And...two marriages destroyed. As my wife would say, "Braaavo."
> 
> Man, I tell ya...when the s**t winds blow...
> 
> I'm going to bed.


 I think he's lying. Sounds like he got an apartment awfully fast. Any other info on texts about his wife. He's in damage control mode.

Contact OMW as soon as possible.

It also doesn't sound like they're so tight either. Anymore info in the texts about that? Any "I still love yous " or other statements like that. Or "We're in this together." Odd that he won't text her. (fear of getting caught) Maybe both women will finally figure out what he's been up to.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Chap he can't read any more texts (only has access to records of texts being made from phone bill online) unless he has access to the computer that she syncs her phone with, in fact he hasn't been able to read texts that were made during the Vegas trip or after she got home. The texts were all prior to the most recent trip- that's how bad this is and how far back she's been planning this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Sounds like the cheating game ain't so much fun anymore does it. No car, no money, no dog food, making chidren fatherless, mom and dad knows, friends know, no job, other man, barely texting, sending movies(now thats pathetic), can't afford lawyer, D1rty Ba$tard a million miles away (hopefully goimg through hell or soon will be).


Could be one of the shortest affairs on TAM.


I would have ignition key changed in car if wife has a set. She's getting desparate. If I were her I would figure out where you are staying and come get it. She's thinking you hate her now so why not.

As a matter of fact, thats why her texts are so cryptic. She can't possibly think you would ever forgive her and she's just trying to survive at this point. Whatever her plans were they've obviously bit the dust. When she applied for a local job I thought it meant she wanted to be home with you and the weekend thing was a bust. What was your take on that?


----------



## AFEH

Shamwow said:


> But I've already contacted her parents, my parents, our siblings and a few key mutual friends and calmly told my side of the story before she had a chance to. How far are you suggesting I take it, and why? And what would I say to, say, a work colleague of hers? And once again, what is the ultimate goal? To bring about HER realization of everything she has done? Is this to make her deal with it and bust her out of the fog? I think it will just PISS HER OFF, and make her think I'm being petty. But then, my natural inclinations would never have led me to do what I've done in the past few weeks, so I'm willing to listen.


Believe you me it will p!ss her off. She has already shown big signs of being a psychopath, no Empathy for you and no Compassion for you. No “I’m really sorry I hurt you so much”. No Guilt. No Remorse.

Sham, your wife is not in a Fog. Far from it. It sounds more like she has very clear ideas of where she wants to be and who she wants to be with and about how she was to make it all happen.

In her workplace there will be people who support your wife and there will be people who support you. But I reckon if you Expose in the workplace it will set your wife off on a sh!testorm. Exposing her in the workplace has every possibility of setting her off on a psychopathic revenge against you and if you think you’ve seen it all then you haven’t seen anything as yet, should you expose to the workplace.

And if you do have any inkling, no matter how small of a reconciliation exposing to the workplace will be like putting a nuclear bomb right in the midst of your “relationship”.

Continue taking the high road Sham and continue maintaining your Dignity, Self-Respect and Self-Esteem.

Bob


----------



## golfergirl

chapparal said:


> Sounds like the cheating game ain't so much fun anymore does it. No car, no money, no dog food, making chidren fatherless, mom and dad knows, friends know, no job, other man, barely texting, sending movies(now thats pathetic), can't afford lawyer, D1rty Ba$tard a million miles away (hopefully goimg through hell or soon will be).
> 
> 
> Could be one of the shortest affairs on TAM.
> 
> 
> I would have ignition key changed in car if wife has a set. She's getting desparate. If I were her I would figure out where you are staying and come get it. She's thinking you hate her now so why not.
> 
> As a matter of fact, thats why her texts are so cryptic. She can't possibly think you would ever forgive her and she's just trying to survive at this point. Whatever her plans were they've obviously bit the dust. When she applied for a local job I thought it meant she wanted to be home with you and the weekend thing was a bust. What was your take on that?


Not answering for Sham, but my take on that is other job fell through (he read emails where they didn't choose her to work in OM's town, she didn't decline), and she's looking for anything for money. It's not like she came home and ravaged Shamwow sexually. She went out, had fun but kept distance. My opinion, buying time to get ducks in a row until he blew it all open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

FWIW, I think she is completely telling the truth about being emotionless, and that this is easy for her. Of course, that came before Sham "found out". This is a cold woman who has been through this before. This time, she actually saw it coming sooner, as she is smarter than she was in her 1st marriage. 

I know this is a marriage site and people are mentioning the possibility of R down the road. I don't see that as even remotely possible here. She doesn't want it, he doens't want it, and even if it happened, there would be so much carnal damage that he would never trust her again as long as he lived. And rightfully so. This is a vindictive human being that has no feelings for Sham and hasn't for months.


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?


No, I feel you should still contact her. If he moved out then I don't think you'll hurt her too much. In fact, any evidence you gathered already may help her out in divorce proceedings. She might be greatful for the call.

If she happens to live in an "at fault" state she can really put it to him in court and it makes the OM fantasy life of a new place, new beginnings with your wife extremely.......difficult.


----------



## useable

This is my first post

from what i read, it tells me that your current wife is having mental or physical problem by deceiving and manipulating and keep going in unstable cycle. Sham, the most option is to divorce her. Just present the necessary evidence for divorce for yourself benefit and no need to talk much about her affair, just explain that you already know anything and will proceed the divorce and she must willing to discuss divorce things in fair way. 

i am not talking that you have no other choice instead of divorce, however if you want to get her back and give her chance, this would be a serious deal you have to face as we can see the way she left her first M and how she is deceiving and manipulating her current H. you need to help her to heal from her mental or physicology problem and this will be a very hard job to be done and requires your extreme patience . but if you can past this and make this done the Hero title is yours. Just think if you willing to follow this path.

To me, the only mistake from your side is that you do not know her very well. you did not do well the "knowing your future spouse". i do not know if you have done the best digging of her life before decided to marry her.

Stay focus on your life and do what you want to do on this matter. Most posters on this forum are currently concern for you through your most dramatic thread.

Life goes on.


----------



## Almostrecovered

useable said:


> To me, the only mistake from your side is that you do not know her very well. you did not do well the "knowing your future spouse". i do not know if you have done the best digging of her life before decided to marry her.


out of curiosity, what was he supposed to have done? I assume they dated for a decent amount of time before marrying, was he supposed to contact the ex-hubby or ask her friends behind her back? Not trying to be combative here, just would like to know what you think people should do to check their future spouses aside from a background check?


----------



## Shaggy

With regard to the OMW

1. He may be lying about moving out, he maybe lying about why

2. OMW may have information you don't. You have assumed you know more than her. When you contact her don't just offer info, see If she has anything new to tell you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> Chap he can't read any more texts (only has access to records of texts being made from phone bill online) unless he has access to the computer that she syncs her phone with, in fact he hasn't been able to read texts that were made during the Vegas trip or after she got home. The texts were all prior to the most recent trip- that's how bad this is and how far back she's been planning this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thats what I thought too, however he said

"Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment "

Looks like he read text,no?


----------



## useable

Almostrecovered said:


> out of curiosity, what was he supposed to have done? I assume they dated for a decent amount of time before marrying, was he supposed to contact the ex-hubby or ask her friends behind her back? Not trying to be combative here, just would like to know what you think people should do to check their future spouses aside from a background check?


i think, from the story that she divorced with her first H. Sham had to know what was the real problem(this is the critical aspect).
i do not know if Sham was sure that the first M fail because of the ex and he believed much in her stories. Well, decent amount of time dating does not guarantee you already know each other very well it is just like you study in University for years but never graduated from there.


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?
> 
> 
> Thats what I thought too, however he said
> 
> "Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment "
> 
> Looks like he read text,no?


he can read her emails, not her texts


----------



## Almostrecovered

useable said:


> i think, from the story that she divorced with her first H. Sham had to know what was the real problem(this is the critical aspect).
> i do not know if Sham was sure that the first M fail because of the ex and he believed much in her stories. Well, decent amount of time dating does not guarantee you already know each other very well it is just like you study in University for years but never graduated from there.


but again, what specifically should he have been doing to find out the real story? Never crossed my mind to do serious investigation of people I've dated in the past. Naturally we all trust the people we get close to.


----------



## useable

Almostrecovered said:


> but again, what specifically should he have been doing to find out the real story? Never crossed my mind to do serious investigation of people I've dated in the past. Naturally we all trust the people we get close to.


*Sham had to know what was the real problem of the Divorce*

if you are going to marry the one who has divorced, please be wise and ensure what caused the divorce. and it is not wrong to ask her to be open or maybe ask her friends who also know the cause.


----------



## Almostrecovered

useable said:


> *Sham had to know what was the real problem of the Divorce*
> 
> if you are going to marry the one who has divorced, please be wise and ensure what caused the divorce. and it is not wrong to ask her to be open or maybe ask her friends who also know the cause.


not saying it shouldnt have been done, but it is a hard thing to get to the real truth from friends loyal to her


----------



## useable

Almostrecovered said:


> not saying it shouldnt have been done, but it is a hard thing to get to the real truth from friends loyal to her


and it means still possible


----------



## morituri

I think most people like to give others the benefit of the doubt and that may have been the case with Sham. It can be debated that when he saw how cold his stbxw was to people whom she felt had crossed her even for the most trivial of things, that it should have been a *huge red flag* for him to immediately end his relationship with her. Unfortunately when we're in love or have deep feelings for someone, we tend to excuse or rationalize their behavior never wanting to acknowledge that we may become that person's next victim down the road.


----------



## aeg512

I am one that also thinks you still need to contact the OM's BW. His email could be a smokescreen in an attempt to get you not to contact her since you think they are going to D. Also, even if he has been kicked out, the evidence you have on hand could give her a much stronger hand in D proceedings. 
Also, when you go to retrive your belongings, have someone else drive. Remember your WW has a key to the automobile. If you must take your auto, have the ignition rekeyed. Remember it would be easy while you are inside the house getting your belongings for her to go out and get the auto or to even have someone else get it for her.


----------



## aug

chapparal said:


> When she applied for a local job I thought it meant she wanted to be home with you and the weekend thing was a bust. What was your take on that?


Might not have been a job interview. Might have been her seeing her "financial adviser".


----------



## useable

morituri said:


> I think most people like to give others the benefit of the doubt and that may have been the case with Sham. It can be debated that when he saw how cold his stbxw was to people whom she felt had crossed her even for the most trivial of things, that it should have been a *huge red flag* for him to immediately end his relationship with her. Unfortunately when we're in love or have deep feelings for someone, we tend to excuse or rationalize their behavior never wanting to acknowledge that we may become that person's next victim down the road.


 on the spot. great post.


----------



## aug

Shamwow said:


> Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."
> 
> She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...


I would be cautious here. Your wife thinks she was hacked. Why did she not change all her passwords? Wonder why she left the email password unchanged. 

She and the OM may have left this email intentionally to redirect. The reason may be the OM is not financially sound yet and has convinced your wife to let him build up some cash. Note all her last few texts to you was about money.

They may be conversing in other ways or with a new email account.

The VAR in the house should be interesting.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Thinking tomorrow around 11am, odds are she'd be at work, and he wouldn't be able to intercept or interfere.




t-minus 123 minutes


----------



## WhereAmI

aug said:


> I would be cautious here. Your wife thinks she was hacked. Why did she not change all her passwords? Wonder why she left the email password unchanged.
> 
> She and the OM may have left this email intentionally to redirect. The reason may be the OM is not financially sound yet and has convinced your wife to let him build up some cash. Note all her last few texts to you was about money.
> 
> They may be conversing in other ways or with a new email account.
> 
> The VAR in the house should be interesting.


I agree. Even if it's not the case his wife deserves to know. Who knows if your W was the only one? She needs to get an STD panel, stat. Not to mention, if you're interested in messing up your W's fantasy a bit more, you could let the OMW "know" that you were blindsided because sex with your W was even more frequent during the affair. If she lets this slip to her WH, you will have planted the seed of mistrust to their relationship. IMO, the reason sex stopped with you was because she wanted to be faithful (sick, I know) to her new man. If you do this, make sure you never give her a way to prove the marriage was sexless. 

You've kept it classy so far and avoided her games. You'll figure out the right thing to do. I hope through all of your strength you are letting yourself grieve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

aeg512 said:


> I am one that also thinks you still need to contact the OM's BW. His email could be a smokescreen in an attempt to get you not to contact her since you think they are going to D. Also, even if he has been kicked out, the evidence you have on hand could give her a much stronger hand in D proceedings.
> Also, when you go to retrive your belongings, have someone else drive. Remember your WW has a key to the automobile. If you must take your auto, have the ignition rekeyed. Remember it would be easy while you are inside the house getting your belongings for her to go out and get the auto or to even have someone else get it for her.


I would also add to this recommendation another reason - she might place or have someone else place a GPS tracker on the car to find out where you are at and get it later. Having this person with you (driving) would prevent this from happening easily.


----------



## Dadof3

aug said:


> I would be cautious here. Your wife thinks she was hacked. Why did she not change all her passwords? Wonder why she left the email password unchanged.
> 
> She and the OM may have left this email intentionally to redirect. The reason may be the OM is not financially sound yet and has convinced your wife to let him build up some cash. Note all her last few texts to you was about money.
> 
> They may be conversing in other ways or with a new email account.
> 
> The VAR in the house should be interesting.


I wanted to say the same thing - it IS suspicious that none of her passwords have changed - and this particular email is FISHING to see what happens after Sham reads it.


----------



## Slapchop

aug said:


> She and the OM may have left this email intentionally to redirect. The reason may be the OM is not financially sound yet and has convinced your wife to let him build up some cash. Note all her last few texts to you was about money.
> 
> They may be conversing in other ways or with a new email account.


I've read this thread since it was just 20 pages...riveting narrative. Shamwow, you're handling yourself magnificently through what is likely the worst ordeal of your life. Well done.

Your wife (legally) does not sound like a stupid person. You mentioned that you are the administrator of your email client, allowing you access to everything sent and received. How could she not know this? There is almost certainly another email address/phone(burner?)/skype account being utilized. 

I don't think she is just a heartless, manipulative *****...because I don't think you would marry someone like that. No, she's made a mistake (or two, or a dozen) and she knows it. What she is doing, however, is divorcing herself from feeling pain, remorse, or regret. She's burying these feelings and focusing on the day to day matters at hand. It's far easier to deal with a new job, housing, city, etc., than to truly address her inadequacies and failings.

She tells people, including herself, that this is easy and she doesn't have any emotions about divorcing because it's easier than owning up to her wrongdoings and seeking forgiveness. Why? Because she can't be rejected. *For some people it is preferable to quit before you can fail - it's easier to say "I didn't want to play anyway" than to come up short and face the mistakes.* I know this because I've struggled with it my entire life.


----------



## Dadof3

Slapchop said:


> I've read this thread since it was just 20 pages...riveting narrative. Shamwow, you're handling yourself magnificently through what is likely the worst ordeal of your life. Well done.
> 
> Your wife (legally) does not sound like a stupid person. You mentioned that you are the administrator of your email client, allowing you access to everything sent and received. How could she not know this? There is almost certainly another email address/phone(burner?)/skype account being utilized.
> 
> I don't think she is just a heartless, manipulative *****...because I don't think you would marry someone like that. No, she's made a mistake (or two, or a dozen) and she knows it. What she is doing, however, is divorcing herself from feeling pain, remorse, or regret. She's burying these feelings and focusing on the day to day matters at hand. It's far easier to deal with a new job, housing, city, etc., than to truly address her inadequacies and failings.
> 
> She tells people, including herself, that this is easy and she doesn't have any emotions about divorcing because it's easier than owning up to her wrongdoings and seeking forgiveness. Why? Because she can't be rejected. *For some people it is preferable to quit before you can fail - it's easier to say "I didn't want to play anyway" than to come up short and face the mistakes.* I know this because I've struggled with it my entire life.


:iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

is it okay to find it funny that there's now a slapchop in the thread?


----------



## Dadof3

Almostrecovered said:


> is it okay to find it funny that there's now a slapchop in the thread?


I started thinking about that (Slapchop) and what Slapchop said - and my spidey senses went off. 

Slapchop - you aren't Mrs. ShamWow are you?


----------



## jenis

Almostrecovered said:


> is it okay to find it funny that there's now a slapchop in the thread?


Only if 'mighty putty' shows up


----------



## Slapchop

Almostrecovered said:


> is it okay to find it funny that there's now a slapchop in the thread?


I registered just to comment on this thread, and I thought Slapchop would be complementary and complimentary to Shamwow.


----------



## Almostrecovered

jenis said:


> Only if 'mighty putty' shows up


If only the old, venerable and experienced Thighmaster would grace us his presence with some words of wisdom


----------



## Slapchop

Dadof3 said:


> I started thinking about that (Slapchop) and what Slapchop said - and my spidey senses went off.
> 
> Slapchop - you aren't Mrs. ShamWow are you?


Definitely not. Wrong gender entirely. And I'm not defending the Mrs; just wanted to propose an explanation for her cold actions. She's in a dark place and trying to avoid the pain that will accompany the truth of her behavior. I believe that she was a loving, successful partner for several years. Now she needs counseling if she wants to rebuild her life and have any hope for a decent relationship (with the next guy, not our hero). Do I think she will get this counseling and truly address her issues? Sadly, no.


----------



## crossbar

Hey Sham! Did your lawyer ever respond to your e-mail on what your responsibilities to the household are?


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."
> 
> She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...
> 
> Guessing this is not a ploy to make me think this or that (though I'm used to being plenty paranoid these days, so who knows). .


At one point, Sham, I thought you had written that her text traffic to OM was at high volume. Was this on first night? Or has it been the case since?

If aggregate totals of on-going texts indicate that they are texting a lot, that contradicts part of the message in this e-mail. If this is the case, I suspect this e-mail is being designed to gaslight and mis-direct you. I would treat information here as highly unreliable.

I would suspect she's gone to a new account. Do find any other of her personal e-mails here? If not, I suspect she has notified those closest to her that she has a new account. This channel of information is now likely worthless to you.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

It is also possible that she is looking for, or found the VARs. I would take an opportunity to surreptitiously get into the house and remove them. You really don't need to do more information collection at this point. You have all you need to know.

I wouldn't be surprised if she changed the locks, or dumped all your stuff into the garage.

And while your there collect your dogs.

Cypress


----------



## Voiceofreason

crossbar said:


> Hey Sham! Did your lawyer ever respond to your e-mail on what your responsibilities to the household are?


Sham-- be aware that if it gets out that you divulged any communications with your attorney here, you will be deemed to have waived the attorney-client privilege for those communications and perhaps all of them. Just be circumspect in what you say about those conversations here...


----------



## Shamwow

useable said:


> i think, from the story that she divorced with her first H. Sham had to know what was the real problem(this is the critical aspect).
> i do not know if Sham was sure that the first M fail because of the ex and he believed much in her stories. Well, decent amount of time dating does not guarantee you already know each other very well it is just like you study in University for years but never graduated from there.


We dated for two years before getting married. As you know, one feels they know everything about their partner because both talk so openly about everything at this stage. 

She had been divorced for six years before I met her, and by our current age standards she was still basically a child when she divorced (22). In my mind it was ancient history. And of course we talked about the details of what happened in her previous marriage - she wanted to talk about it. I got the same story from her friends as I did from her. Which makes sense, because she would've told them what she wanted to tell them, not necessarily the truth (if there was anything she was tryig to hide...much like she s hoping to do now w friends and family). Short of tracking her exH down and putting the both of them on a polygraph before we got married, can't imagine what more I could've done to establish the cause of the first divorce. And I was in love. Simple as that. I suppose I will be more careful in the future though...that seems natural.


----------



## crossbar

Voiceofreason said:


> Sham-- be aware that if it gets out that you divulged any communications with your attorney here, you will be deemed to have waived the attorney-client privilege for those communications and perhaps all of them. Just be circumspect in what you say about those conversations here...


Opps, yep, you're right.


----------



## morituri

Sham, I know hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, can you think of any red flags that you might have ignored while the two of you were dating?


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> Not answering for Sham, but my take on that is other job fell through (he read emails where they didn't choose her to work in OM's town, she didn't decline), and she's looking for anything for money. It's not like she came home and ravaged Shamwow sexually. She went out, had fun but kept distance. My opinion, buying time to get ducks in a row until he blew it all open.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Clearly I should clarify this "local job" confusion.

What happened is that while in Vegas, she got a call about a new job possibility. It was last minute, and would've taken her out of town for a month or so. However, it would include a week of time in OM's home town, for training purposes. That was the "local" reference. The job would've taken her to his area for a week, and that was why I mentioned it. Seemed suspicious at the time.

The job possibility came up and fell through within a day.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> FWIW, I think she is completely telling the truth about being emotionless, and that this is easy for her. Of course, that came before Sham "found out". This is a cold woman who has been through this before. This time, she actually saw it coming sooner, as she is smarter than she was in her 1st marriage.
> 
> I know this is a marriage site and people are mentioning the possibility of R down the road. I don't see that as even remotely possible here. She doesn't want it, he doens't want it, and even if it happened, there would be so much carnal damage that he would never trust her again as long as he lived. And rightfully so. This is a vindictive human being that has no feelings for Sham and hasn't for months.


Totally. I would strike the vindictive comment out of previous respect that I held for her for so long though...she is certainly removed from any emotion involving me now though, and from the way I've described the last few weeks and months here, I have to say it fits now.

She does not want R. She wants to be free. It just didn't go as planned, and she was hoping not to have to face any of the consequences of her actions that led ME to do the leaving.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Ummm....just saw an email from OM to my W. I hadn't checked the email in days. But it appears OM just moved out into another apartment and is planning to get divorced. Kinda makes it easier to contact his W. Or does it make the point moot?
> 
> Interesting that in the email he mentioned that he "wasn't even going to get into your guy (me) checking text logs or probably how he is reading this email right now."
> 
> She is upset that they haven't been texting much since the other night when I left (except for that first night). And since they're both eating a big s**t sandwich right now, shouldn't they lean on each other...
> 
> Guessing this is not a ploy to make me think this or that (though I'm used to being plenty paranoid these days, so who knows). Something went down on his end too. Perhaps she caught on to the same red flags that I did recently? Should I still contact OMW? I have no idea what's going on in their marriage, nor do I have any right to...but if for example she ends up taking him back, and this current spat has nothing to do with him and my W and what I know, that info could help her avoid an R that she wouldn't want...
> 
> This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a whimper. And...two marriages destroyed. As my wife would say, "Braaavo."
> 
> Man, I tell ya...when the s**t winds blow...
> 
> I'm going to bed.


I would contact her. Yes. Closure.

Treat what you read in an appropriate skeptical way.

Byzantine Generals problem -- In that you cannot trust everything. But the information still may be of value if it validates or confirms other information. Just don't make any decisions based on just this information.


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> Sounds like the cheating game ain't so much fun anymore does it. No car, no money, no dog food, making chidren fatherless, mom and dad knows, friends know, no job, other man, barely texting, sending movies(now thats pathetic), can't afford lawyer, D1rty Ba$tard a million miles away (hopefully goimg through hell or soon will be).
> 
> 
> Could be one of the shortest affairs on TAM.
> 
> 
> *I would have ignition key changed in car if wife has a set. She's getting desparate. If I were her I would figure out where you are staying and come get it. She's thinking you hate her now so why not.
> *
> As a matter of fact, thats why her texts are so cryptic. She can't possibly think you would ever forgive her and she's just trying to survive at this point. Whatever her plans were they've obviously bit the dust. When she applied for a local job I thought it meant she wanted to be home with you and the weekend thing was a bust. What was your take on that?


Good idea.


----------



## Gabriel

Shamwow said:


> Totally. I would strike the vindictive comment out of previous respect that I held for her for so long though...she is certainly removed from any emotion involving me now though, and from the way I've described the last few weeks and months here, I have to say it fits now.
> 
> She does not want R. She wants to be free. It just didn't go as planned, and she was hoping not to have to face any of the consequences of her actions that led ME to do the leaving.



Okay, Sham, sorry, consider that part redacted and replaced with..She is cold to this marriage and hasn't had feelings for Sham for months.

My point in general (for those still throwing R out there) is imagine if you guys got back together. I mean, you would be constantly checking skype, emails, texts, etc. You'd be a nervous wreck anytime she took a job out of town. It would be a torturous existence. Who wants that?

FWIW, this has to be really tough. Godspeed. Look forward to your own freedom.


----------



## Almostrecovered

still planning on calling the OMW in 20 minutes?


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> I think most people like to give others the benefit of the doubt and that may have been the case with Sham. It can be debated that when he saw how cold his stbxw was to people whom she felt had crossed her even for the most trivial of things, that it should have been a *huge red flag* for him to immediately end his relationship with her. Unfortunately when we're in love or have deep feelings for someone, we tend to excuse or rationalize their behavior never wanting to acknowledge that we may become that person's next victim down the road.


Yes, looking back there were moments where I saw a flash of crazy that prompted me to feel as if someday I would leave her. They were powerful and scary, but also just moments. She would apologize, we would make up. I wish my communication skills would have been more mature at these times. I could certainly argue a point well, and diffuse situations, but I have never been an "expert communicator" and I have a tendency to avoid tackling really big decisions. At least in terms of my relationship.

I am a new Sham these days. Let er rip.


----------



## Shamwow

aeg512 said:


> I am one that also thinks you still need to contact the OM's BW. His email could be a smokescreen in an attempt to get you not to contact her since you think they are going to D. Also, even if he has been kicked out, the evidence you have on hand could give her a much stronger hand in D proceedings.
> Also, when you go to retrive your belongings, have someone else drive. Remember your WW has a key to the automobile. If you must take your auto, have the ignition rekeyed. Remember it would be easy while you are inside the house getting your belongings for her to go out and get the auto or to even have someone else get it for her.


I will call OMW today. Everyone please rest assured. And if he truly is out of their house at the moment, that makes it much easier to avoid ay disruption from his end. I am still editing the script, but almost ready.

I called about having the ignition rekeyed on my car. $300. Ouch. But better than having my car "stolen" by my wife if she would choose to try that.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Not sure how you guys separated your finances. But if you have the information, I would try to account for all the money from the past few months. Money she earned/ you earned and where it went. 

If she has money stashed away that she did prior to the separation, then you are entitled to half of it. It would be great to have evidence that when she asks for half the car, you can ask for half of her stash. Or at least make her answer some questions in regards to where her money has been going.


----------



## Shamwow

aug said:


> I would be cautious here. Your wife thinks she was hacked. Why did she not change all her passwords? Wonder why she left the email password unchanged.
> 
> She and the OM may have left this email intentionally to redirect. The reason may be the OM is not financially sound yet and has convinced your wife to let him build up some cash. Note all her last few texts to you was about money.
> 
> They may be conversing in other ways or with a new email account.
> 
> The VAR in the house should be interesting.


Agreed. I would've thought she'd set up a different email account two weeks ago when I first let her know that I had seen an inappropriate email from this guy. She probably has...but maybe she just doesn't care anymore because she may not have anything to "currently" hide (if they are not pursuing a relationship anymore). 

Or it's a smokescreen. I really can't afford to underestimate her (nor her me).


----------



## SadSamIAm

Not sure what the car is worth, or if you really like the car, might be better for you to sell it. Buy yourself some flashy BMW or something.


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> is it okay to find it funny that there's now a slapchop in the thread?


Totally, that made me smile.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> I will call OMW today. Everyone please rest assured. And if he truly is out of their house at the moment, that makes it much easier to avoid ay disruption from his end. I am still editing the script, but almost ready.
> 
> I called about having the ignition rekeyed on my car. $300. Ouch. But better than having my car "stolen" by my wife if she would choose to try that.


One thought Sham, she could have it towed and re-keyed herself with her mystery money stash!


----------



## ManDup

seeking sanity said:


> Okay good, you've stated your goal: If the stars align in a way you feel comfortable with, then you are open to R. Until that time, you are proceeding with divorce. Correct?
> 
> Assuming yes, I'd proceed this way: You don't tell anyone else. There is no gain in that. You DO tell the OM's wife. You explicitly state what you want from your ex once. Simple text saying: "Unless you are ready to have an honest conversation do not contact me. I will be proceeding with the divorce."
> 
> You stay dark. You move on with your life. Get a place, get your stuff, don't engage with her, file the papers and move on with your life. If she comes to you willing to talk, you listen and go from there.
> 
> That would be my plan.


:iagree:

I never did mass exposure, or even much exposure at all, which hurt me early on, as she started gaslighting MY FAMILY for some weird reason, feeling that she could somehow turn them against me. Later, though, she sent out one of those god-awful christmas letters detailing her new life choices without blameshifting.


----------



## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> Believe you me it will p!ss her off. She has already shown big signs of being a psychopath, no Empathy for you and no Compassion for you. No “I’m really sorry I hurt you so much”. No Guilt. No Remorse.
> 
> *Sham, your wife is not in a Fog.* Far from it. It sounds more like she has very clear ideas of where she wants to be and who she wants to be with and about how she was to make it all happen.
> 
> In her workplace there will be people who support your wife and there will be people who support you. But I reckon if you Expose in the workplace it will set your wife off on a sh!testorm. Exposing her in the workplace has every possibility of setting her off on a psychopathic revenge against you and if you think you’ve seen it all then you haven’t seen anything as yet, should you expose to the workplace.
> 
> And if you do have any inkling, no matter how small of a reconciliation exposing to the workplace will be like putting a nuclear bomb right in the midst of your “relationship”.
> 
> Continue taking the high road Sham and continue maintaining your Dignity, Self-Respect and Self-Esteem.
> 
> Bob


:iagree:

Excellent point. That is what makes this so different. It does not appear she is in the affair fog per se. It is not the dominant driver for her actions anyway. This sure looks like she has planned this methodically. Just did not respect him enough to worry about anything.


----------



## crossbar

Didn't I read somewhere that Sham is from Ohio? I could be wrong.


----------



## Shamwow

Voiceofreason said:


> Sham-- be aware that if it gets out that you divulged any communications with your attorney here, you will be deemed to have waived the attorney-client privilege for those communications and perhaps all of them. Just be circumspect in what you say about those conversations here...


Thanks for the heads up...sorry crossbar, I respectfully decline to answer. Any and all questions should be directed to my attorney.


----------



## crossbar

Awww.... tagged again!!!!  I was doing research and discovered that Ohio is a No Fault and a at Fault state.....only reason, just curious.....I'll shut up now.


----------



## Fido

Hey Sham,

To re-key the car might not be necessary. You might only need to buy one of those steering wheel locks for $30 or $40, or a wheel lock. Will get you by in the short term. Keep your $$$ together, you might need it later. And go get a separation agreement taken care of while she is still busy. It helped me getting out of any discussion. I basically ran my ex over with the agreement. Saved my a$$.

Good Luck Sham. You are handling this really well in my opinion!!!

:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> FWIW, I think she is completely telling the truth about being emotionless, and that this is easy for her. Of course, that came before Sham "found out". This is a cold woman who has been through this before. This time, she actually saw it coming sooner, as she is smarter than she was in her 1st marriage.
> 
> I know this is a marriage site and people are mentioning the possibility of R down the road. I don't see that as even remotely possible here. She doesn't want it, he doens't want it, and even if it happened, there would be so much carnal damage that he would never trust her again as long as he lived. And rightfully so. This is a vindictive human being that has no feelings for Sham and hasn't for months.


Yeah, not a fan of R at all cost. I am very pro marriage. But only if it can be healthy and with a reasonable amount of effort. It cannot be one sided. 

I am very much in favor of dealing with the fog of an EA. Been there. Very enlightening and scary frankly. Had I not been trhough it I would have been very skeptical about it. A life's lesson. So a reasonable effort to get the WS back on track I think is warranted. At some point I am a believer in let them go.

This is complicated when there are children.


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> She does not want R. She wants to be free. It just didn't go as planned, and she was hoping not to have to face any of the consequences of her actions that led ME to do the leaving.


Sham, this is totally correct. She has made no mention of R. She hasn't said she was sorry. She hasn't contacted you saying "can we talk". Nothing. All she has contacted you about is trying to get you to fulfill MORE OF HER NEEDS; specifically financial needs. This cold woman (sorry) is trying to play you for any and every last red cent she can take before a divorce is final.

All she is sorry about is what she said..."that you saw those". This has been her plan all along, you merely short circuited it and threw her off stride. But, as you said, she is getting what she wants (to be free), just at a time and in a manner she didn't get to manipulate.

Don't send her a dime unless your attorney tells you to.


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> She's really making it hard to not reply with this kinda stuff. Making me feel like an ahole.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You feel guilt because you are a good person. If the waywards felt the requisite amount of guilt, they wouldn't do it.


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> Awww.... tagged again!!!!  I was doing research and discovered that Ohio is a No Fault and a at Fault state.....only reason, just curious.....I'll shut up now.


Not from Ohio. But I am in a no fault state. OM and his wife are in an at fault state though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Let us know how the OMW call goes. Good luck.

$10 says she doesn't know as much as Sham knows.


----------



## morituri

How convenient for her to become a conflict avoider, eth?


----------



## crossbar

piqued said:


> Sham, this is totally correct. She has made no mention of R. She hasn't said she was sorry. She hasn't contacted you saying "can we talk". Nothing. All she has contacted you about is trying to get you to fulfill MORE OF HER NEEDS; specifically financial needs. This cold woman (sorry) is trying to play you for any and every last red cent she can take before a divorce is final.
> 
> All she is sorry about is what she said..."that you saw those". This has been her plan all along, you merely short circuited it and threw her off stride. But, as you said, she is getting what she wants (to be free), just at a time and in a manner she didn't get to manipulate.
> 
> Don't send her a dime unless your attorney tells you to.


Totally agree with this! Sham said himself that she said she prepared for the end of her last marriage. Months of preparations, money set aside, new boyfriend lined up....

Sham is awesome because he caught on and COMPLETELY threw a monkey wrench into her plans.

Just thought of another thing too. If she talked to a Financal Planner, perphaps your lawyer can subpoena the records on that meeting. If she's trying to hide money....sorry those are martial assets....okay I'm done. I'm late to teach a class...be back later.


----------



## MrQuatto

Gabriel said:


> Let us know how the OMW call goes. Good luck.
> 
> $10 says she doesn't know as much as Sham knows.


I'd almost be confident enough to match $10 that she doesn't know anything, or does but is in denial.

Sham, I would only recommend at this point that you be sure to include your Atty on how you should approach getting your stuff from the home. Follow that advice, get it and move down the "NEW SHAM" road.

Q~


----------



## F-102

Sham, about those texts that you recently found, where she says she has no emotions towards leaving. I know that the vast majority of the men she's involved with told her what she wanted to hear (and I suspect that the current OM is doing the same in regards to him being in his own place), but part of me says that she was telling these guys what THEY wanted to hear-so that they'd pursue her.

And you say that OM lives in an "at fault" state? Oh, man-is he really up s**t creek!


----------



## Voiceofreason

crossbar said:


> Totally agree with this! Sham said himself that she said she prepared for the end of her last marriage. Months of preparations, money set aside, new boyfriend lined up....
> 
> Sham is awesome because he caught on and COMPLETELY threw a monkey wrench into her plans.
> 
> Just thought of another thing too. If she talked to a Financal Planner, perphaps your lawyer can subpoena the records on that meeting. If she's trying to hide money....sorry those are martial assets....okay I'm done. I'm late to teach a class...be back later.


Yes the attorney can subpoena those records...there is no privilege associated with financial planners or accountants...could be interesting information there...


----------



## aug

Voiceofreason said:


> Yes the attorney can subpoena those records...there is no privilege associated with financial planners or accountants...could be interesting information there...



unless she sleeps with the financial planner and convinces him to delete everything.


----------



## ThighMaster

Almostrecovered said:


> If only the old, venerable and experienced Thighmaster would grace us his presence with some words of wisdom


You rang? 

I have been following this thread since day one and all I can say is:

I am sorry you are going through this. 

Like a couple others have posted I am not entirely sure she is in the usual fog of affairland. I get the distinct impression that your STBXW is one incredibly cold, calculating being and this has been in play for quite some time. You already alluded to the fact that her MO was similar in her previous marriage.

It's not too far out of the realm of possibility that this was her intention all along either, and will simply repeat the process until her charm wears out. (hey, you have to have a premise if this is going to go to print someday  )

I think you have done an outstanding job thus far under great stress. Looking forward to hearing how the OMW takes it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

oh wow, this is neat I request a username and it shows up

Next up- TheGhostofBillyMays


----------



## ThighMaster

Almostrecovered said:


> oh wow, this is neat I request a username and it shows up
> 
> Next up- TheGhostofBillyMays


I'm never very creative in the forum username department. You gave me the inspiration I needed to finally register 

Plus, it fits :toast:


----------



## Slapchop

ThighMaster said:


> I'm never very creative in the forum username department. You gave me the inspiration I needed to finally register
> 
> Plus, it fits :toast:


Welcome, o' wise one. Tell us, how is Suzanne?


----------



## Stunner

You're from minnesota right?


----------



## kenmoore14217

Sham, beware of people trying to get personal info from you, such as phone number, spouse name and location.


----------



## Almostrecovered

or social security number or bank routing number to claim Nigerian royalty rewards


----------



## crossbar

credit card numbers, license plate numbers......

Oh, I just read that OM lives in an "at fault" state? Dude, contact the OMW! I was hoping by the time I got back we would have heard something. In due time I guess....

Sham's turning into my hero man!!!


----------



## MarriedTex

crossbar said:


> credit card numbers, license plate numbers......
> 
> Oh, I just read that OM lives in an "at fault" state? Dude, contact the OMW! I was hoping by the time I got back we would have heard something. In due time I guess....
> 
> Sham's turning into my hero man!!!


Please remember. We are here to help Sham. He is not here to entertain us.


----------



## Voiceofreason

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## crossbar

Lord knows I understand that and if you refer back to my past posts I have tried to post nothing but constructive advice.


Some posts better than others, but I have nothing but Sham's best interest at heart.


----------



## Shamwow

No answer at OMW. Called right back, no answer. Will try again in a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Keep dialing : if it is his wife and she answers offer her the evidence , imply you have more as this will get back to the OM then to your wife.

Hopefully it is his wife and she is receptive if not; go for his job.

Best of luck


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> No answer at OMW. Called right back, no answer. Will try again in a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its possible that your phone # might already be id'd to OMW by OM as "Wacky Jack" - maybe also try calling from a different phone might be helpful. 

What would be interesting - if either of these #'s were a cell phone - if so - SMS away - ask them to contact u back or something along those lines.


----------



## Shamwow

They are both cell numbers according to PI. Will resort to text if I have to but not right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joanie

Oh heck no! NEVER! To receive that kind of news in text form would be awful. If you feel you must inform her then the best way would be via a phone call.


----------



## golfergirl

Joanie said:


> Oh heck no! NEVER! To receive that kind of news in text form would be awful. If you feel you must inform her then the best way would be via a phone call.


I think they meant 'please text me for important information' not the whole sordid tale. You're right that would be awful!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Can you leave a message on the phone? Maybe you could just say the OMWs name and ask her to 'call back about a personal issue'

Cypress


----------



## Eli-Zor

No texting, leave no messages , the OM may be in damage control , he may even have the phones. Carry on calling , or call from a land line or buy a pay as you go phone, if you have to track his address down and call on the home landline or track her work address , if no success get the PI to hand deliver a letter of exposure to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

> or call from a land line or buy a pay as you go phone, if you have to track his address down and call on the home landline or track her work address , if no success get the PI to hand deliver a letter of exposure to her.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Sure, why not?

My close friend who I've been talking to this whole time is killing me these last few days, just went off the wagon. Love him, trying to help him as much as I can, but fantastic timing. Eh, par for the course.

Deep breaths...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

Hmm, that is a point. If OM is leaving his wife, he may have one or both of those cell phones. Not to get too far off the beaten path, but if he is anticipating your call (because your STBXW gave him your number) then he might even have someone else answer and pretend to be his wife.

I know, I know, but it's possible :scratchhead:


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Sure, why not?
> 
> My close friend who I've been talking to this whole time is killing me these last few days, just went off the wagon. Love him, trying to help him as much as I can, but fantastic timing. Eh, par for the course.
> 
> Deep breaths...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe I missed something in last 45 min - Sham - this one's confusing... who is it from / for?

At this point - the PI might be best contact method for OMW (due to content of intercepted email earlier)


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> They are both cell numbers according to PI. Will resort to text if I have to but not right away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sham don't do this by text. You can get yourself into some legal problems that way. 

Talk to your attorney before putting anything in writing!


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> Maybe I missed something in last 45 min - Sham - this one's confusing... who is it from / for?
> 
> At this point - the PI might be best contact method for OMW (due to content of intercepted email earlier)


Sorry just venting. Trying to get an apt nailed down, and the rest of this mess, and he has no support system right now to help him, so it's me. Nothing to do with this thread, just venting my stress. Sorry to hijack my own thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

a couple of suggestions (if you havent already tried)

google OMW's name and phone together, it may yield her work place and thus another phone number to try

try googling OM and OMW names with hometown to see if you can find a an address and phone (landline) If OM has truly moved out then she would answer


----------



## Chaparral

Slapchop said:


> I've read this thread since it was just 20 pages...riveting narrative. Shamwow, you're handling yourself magnificently through what is likely the worst ordeal of your life. Well done.
> 
> Your wife (legally) does not sound like a stupid person. You mentioned that you are the administrator of your email client, allowing you access to everything sent and received. How could she not know this? There is almost certainly another email address/phone(burner?)/skype account being utilized.
> 
> I don't think she is just a heartless, manipulative *****...because I don't think you would marry someone like that. No, she's made a mistake (or two, or a dozen) and she knows it. What she is doing, however, is divorcing herself from feeling pain, remorse, or regret. She's burying these feelings and focusing on the day to day matters at hand. It's far easier to deal with a new job, housing, city, etc., than to truly address her inadequacies and failings.
> 
> She tells people, including herself, that this is easy and she doesn't have any emotions about divorcing because it's easier than owning up to her wrongdoings and seeking forgiveness. Why? Because she can't be rejected. *For some people it is preferable to quit before you can fail - it's easier to say "I didn't want to play anyway" than to come up short and face the mistakes.* I know this because I've struggled with it my entire life.


I'm pretty certain :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> a couple of suggestions (if you havent already tried)
> 
> google OMW's name and phone together, it may yield her work place and thus another phone number to try
> 
> try googling OM and OMW names with hometown to see if you can find a an address and phone (landline) If OM has truly moved out then she would answer


I have the address...there is no land line.


----------



## F-102

Send a letter general delivery to her local post office. Then she, and ONLY SHE, is authorized to pick it up.


----------



## Shamwow

She just WON'T answer...went to VM after the second ring last time, clearly she's ignoring it. (which I totally understand, if some unknown # kept calling me and not leaving a message I'd prob ignore too)

Would call from my hotel landline, but if he sees it he could look it up and tell my wife where I'm staying. Which wouldn't be the end of the world, just don't want to deal with that right now. 

And I put a Club on my car today after the advice from the forum. Not as good as new locks, but much faster and cheaper. And like she knows how to work around a club...


----------



## Shaggy

Labs results back yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

If you are ready to give up calling, you can just mail the evidence to her. Its not optimal, but you don't want to spend days trying to get a hold of her. There are limits to your responsibility to keep her informed. That is the OM's job, unfortunately he was not man enough to take care of his on s**t.

Send it to her workplace. Use USPS's 'Signature Confirmation' service. That way you can track it at USPS. 

Mail it and forget it. You can move on to Apt hunting and take care of your friend.

Cypress


----------



## MarriedTex

I would confer with lawyer before sending anything, particularly texts from her phone. If it falls in OMs hands, could be ammo for some type of counter-suit. Just be careful here. 

In my book, contacting the OMW is an optional activity. Don't want to trip yourself up on something at the margins of your need to recover and move on.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Labs results back yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They're saying Friday...


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife knows you've broken through her lies
She knows you know who the OM is
Your wife is also clever cold and cunning

It is very like they have taken steps to isolate the OM from your wrath 

I recommend a multi approach

Use the prepaid and send her a signature require package. The package should go out after the lab results are back and it should not include the actual texts but it should include a hand written letter from you detailing what you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

MarriedTex said:


> In my book, contacting the OMW is an optional activity. Don't want to trip yourself up on something at the margins of your need to recover and move on.


Absolutely. It’s a humanistic thing to do for OMW. But it could back fire on Sham.


----------



## washburn

If you know where she works just call up the place and ask to speak with her...


----------



## Chaparral

OK, catching upon some posts and it has been deduced from a very few short texts that Sham's wife is:

cold , clever, cunning
has a modus operandi
incredibly cold
oops... not just cold incredibly cold
would probably sleep w/financial planner
emotionless
selfish 
a conflict avoider
been planning this all along 
may physically attack him in psycho rage 
cold 
methodical
sociopath
psychopath
etc. ad nauseum 


Conclusion: Wife has been bitten by vampire

Oh well at least I didn't read four more pages of analyzing the evil dog food episode.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Wow! This thread has over 100,000 views and over 2000 entries! You really should consider writing a book about this.

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

Starting to have a letting go kinda day. Calling OMW several times (to no avail) really showed me the state of all four of our lives right now. 

My wife is at home prob ordering pizza for the 5th straight night (10 bucks says the diet and body improvement phase went right out the window) not giving a crap what happens to me, only how best to handle this without her faithful "stand-in hubby" sidekick for support. She will do well in her career, she will drink way too much for a long time and probably do things on the road that will dwindle what self-respect she has left for herself, in addition to eventually losing the personal respect of the people around her as they all grow past that kind of lifestyle in their own due time. But since she doesn't want to talk about or think about things like that...She will be fine. Hopefully someday she'll straighten things out and be happy. She also will not ever apologize to me for anything.

OM is sitting in a crappy apt he moved into, newly awaiting divorce. He knows the pivotal role he played in luring a married woman, lonely from the road, by playing off her fantasies and talking smack about someone he's never met, just to get off, and then tempting her to take it further once he had her hooked. He will do okay in his career. He will probably succumb to the reputation he has built for himself among his peers (that's he's wily and not to be trusted) and will fail in many a relationship. He will not be fine. His life will go downhill from here, I feel it. [and someday...he just may get an anonymous suckerpunch and wonder if "maybe that was that one guy"]

OMW presumably kicked him out (educated speculation at this point), is finishing her masters shortly, has their apartment, and is young enough and attractive enough to find someone better and put this behind her. She will be fine.

I am coming to terms with the fact that my wife fell out of love with me, declined to tell me one word about it, began preparing to string me along in limbo to support her for as long as she needed to get her house in order and leave, not really caring how cold that was. I've got the upper hand, I have my dignity (thank god), I'll soon have my pup by my side, will be setting up a simple place to live and work next week, and then when the paperwork is all done, moving somewhere kicka** and focusing on my career and myself, and will meet plenty of great women to spend my time and life with. Perhaps play the field a little longer this time, make sure I've got a winner. I will be fine.

Unless the panties come back positive...then it's off to the doc for a checkup.


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> Wow! This thread has over 100,000 views and over 2000 entries! You really should consider writing a book about this.
> 
> Cypress


Presuming that's a lot? I think the tie-in from the other forum(s) a while back may have given my thread a boost. Just glad for all the help I've gotten here, can't imagine doing it alone.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Other forums?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

We need another viewpoint. When is 8yearscheating getting out of limbo land. Hope he comes back. Anyone know what he did? He was the last one I thought would get banned. Always seemed so level headed. Surely week is almost up. Hope he hasn't abandoned us.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> Other forums?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOT
> 
> I forgot about that. Anyone know what page that link was on?
> 
> It was about a guy who didn't like latin dancing with is wife. She eventually got scammed by a gigolo in Cuba.


----------



## tacoma

chapparal said:


> Almostrecovered said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other forums?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOT
> 
> I forgot about that. Anyone know what page that link was on?
> 
> It was about a guy who didn't like latin dancing with is wife. She eventually got scammed by a gigolo in Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> That thread has been deleted as has the one he started after that one was deleted.
> 
> He has now started a new one here...
> 
> Trying to live with reconciliation after betrayal... - LoveShack.org Community Forums
> 
> He is reconciling with her now that she`s back from Cuba and her week with the latin lover.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mike11

He is reconciling with is wife the thread was delete


----------



## Chaparral

tacoma said:


> chapparal said:
> 
> 
> 
> That thread has been deleted as has the one he started after that one was deleted.
> 
> He has now started a new one here...
> 
> Trying to live with reconciliation after betrayal... - LoveShack.org Community Forums
> 
> He is reconciling with her now that she`s back from Cuba and her week with the latin lover.
> 
> 
> 
> Gracias:smthumbup:
Click to expand...


----------



## ManDup

chapparal said:


> OK, catching upon some posts and it has been deduced from a very few short texts that Sham's wife is:
> 
> cold , clever, cunning
> has a modus operandi
> incredibly cold
> oops... not just cold incredibly cold
> would probably sleep w/financial planner
> emotionless
> selfish
> a conflict avoider
> been planning this all along
> may physically attack him in psycho rage
> cold
> methodical
> sociopath
> psychopath
> etc. ad nauseum
> 
> 
> Conclusion: Wife has been bitten by vampire
> 
> Oh well at least I didn't read four more pages of analyzing the evil dog food episode.


She's an angel. I hear she'll be available soon. Go for it.


----------



## Chaparral

ManDup said:


> She's an angel. I hear she'll be available soon. Go for it.


Now, that's funny!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Starting to have a letting go kinda day. Calling OMW several times (to no avail) really showed me the state of all four of our lives right now.
> 
> My wife is at home prob ordering pizza for the 5th straight night (10 bucks says the diet and body improvement phase went right out the window) not giving a crap what happens to me, only how best to handle this without her faithful "stand-in hubby" sidekick for support. She will do well in her career, she will drink way too much for a long time and probably do things on the road that will dwindle what self-respect she has left for herself, in addition to eventually losing the personal respect of the people around her as they all grow past that kind of lifestyle in their own due time. But since she doesn't want to talk about or think about things like that...She will be fine. Hopefully someday she'll straighten things out and be happy. She also will not ever apologize to me for anything.
> 
> OM is sitting in a crappy apt he moved into, newly awaiting divorce. He knows the pivotal role he played in luring a married woman, lonely from the road, by playing off her fantasies and talking smack about someone he's never met, just to get off, and then tempting her to take it further once he had her hooked. He will do okay in his career. He will probably succumb to the reputation he has built for himself among his peers (that's he's wily and not to be trusted) and will fail in many a relationship. He will not be fine. His life will go downhill from here, I feel it. [and someday...he just may get an anonymous suckerpunch and wonder if "maybe that was that one guy"]
> 
> OMW presumably kicked him out (educated speculation at this point), is finishing her masters shortly, has their apartment, and is young enough and attractive enough to find someone better and put this behind her. She will be fine.
> 
> I am coming to terms with the fact that my wife fell out of love with me, declined to tell me one word about it, began preparing to string me along in limbo to support her for as long as she needed to get her house in order and leave, not really caring how cold that was. I've got the upper hand, I have my dignity (thank god), I'll soon have my pup by my side, will be setting up a simple place to live and work next week, and then when the paperwork is all done, moving somewhere kicka** and focusing on my career and myself, and will meet plenty of great women to spend my time and life with. Perhaps play the field a little longer this time, make sure I've got a winner. I will be fine.
> 
> Unless the panties come back positive...then it's off to the doc for a checkup.


A book. Definitely.


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Starting to have a letting go kinda day. Calling OMW several times (to no avail) really showed me the state of all four of our lives right now.
> 
> My wife is at home prob ordering pizza for the 5th straight night (10 bucks says the diet and body improvement phase went right out the window) not giving a crap what happens to me, only how best to handle this without her faithful "stand-in hubby" sidekick for support. She will do well in her career, she will drink way too much for a long time and probably do things on the road that will dwindle what self-respect she has left for herself, in addition to eventually losing the personal respect of the people around her as they all grow past that kind of lifestyle in their own due time. But since she doesn't want to talk about or think about things like that...She will be fine. Hopefully someday she'll straighten things out and be happy. She also will not ever apologize to me for anything.
> 
> OM is sitting in a crappy apt he moved into, newly awaiting divorce. He knows the pivotal role he played in luring a married woman, lonely from the road, by playing off her fantasies and talking smack about someone he's never met, just to get off, and then tempting her to take it further once he had her hooked. He will do okay in his career. He will probably succumb to the reputation he has built for himself among his peers (that's he's wily and not to be trusted) and will fail in many a relationship. He will not be fine. His life will go downhill from here, I feel it. [and someday...he just may get an anonymous suckerpunch and wonder if "maybe that was that one guy"]
> 
> OMW presumably kicked him out (educated speculation at this point), is finishing her masters shortly, has their apartment, and is young enough and attractive enough to find someone better and put this behind her. She will be fine.
> 
> I am coming to terms with the fact that my wife fell out of love with me, declined to tell me one word about it, began preparing to string me along in limbo to support her for as long as she needed to get her house in order and leave, not really caring how cold that was. I've got the upper hand, I have my dignity (thank god), I'll soon have my pup by my side, will be setting up a simple place to live and work next week, and then when the paperwork is all done, moving somewhere kicka** and focusing on my career and myself, and will meet plenty of great women to spend my time and life with. Perhaps play the field a little longer this time, make sure I've got a winner. I will be fine.
> 
> Unless the panties come back positive...then it's off to the doc for a checkup.


Hey Sham, 

This is an awesome amount of self-realization to achieve in such a short time. Good progress. but you will have setbacks in the next few months. These are to be expected. Don't beat yourself or get melancholy when these thoughts of remorse, regret creep in. Don't shut them out. Make sure you allow yourself the chance to feel these feelings. It's part of the healing process. At the same time, don't let yourself wallow in despiar. Take some time to acknowledge the feelings and then set your site on the next task- the next work-out, the next meeting with a friend, the next work project.

You will be more than fine over time, but it will take time to heal fully. Be kind enough to yourself to recognize the ups and the downs of the healing process. Best of luck.


----------



## washburn

Anybody have any idea on what Sham should do if he cant get her to pick up her phone? If I was in her shoes I might not pick it up either. Any time I see an unfamiliar number ringing my cell I normally dont pick it up. I always say to myself "if it was important they would leave a message". Only thing I would suggest is to either try to call her work and ask to speak to her there (if you can find out where she works). OR leave a message on her phone, something vague maybe? Like "Ms. So and So I need to speak with you, please call me back as soon as you get this message, as it is important." Who knows how that would work? Maybe he leaves a message actually mentioning the affair and that he has proof and to please call him back. Again, who knows? Should the mail be utilized? What are peoples ideas?


----------



## PHTlump

I think I would leave a short message that he has information regarding inappropriate behavior by her husband. If she doesn't call back after that message, she either already knows or doesn't want to know.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Have the PI track her down have him deliver a letter from you into her hands. Your difficulty in trying to contact is probably due to the OM shutting down the avenues of communication , this is what happens if you take to long, it gives a wayward the chance to do damage limitation. Don't be concerned it's all part of his game plan to protect his arse.

As for him being in an apartment how do you know?

A few tangible tasks for the day:

Call the PI
Have him hand deliver a letter for you to her stating who you are and advise her that her husband is having an affair with your wife for xxxx months including being together in Vegas. He must verify who she is before handing the letter over.
If the PI does not find her , get him to track where she and the OM work.
Does the OM have Facebook and can you get access , I am not asking how you do that part. What you want is a list of his friends and the web links especialy those with similar surnames , save these on a word doc.

This sounds like hard work, do not let this go, or step back and give up. 

Do remember unless you can personally verify where the OM is you cannot believe anything that you read especially since they know you compromised their email , they have gone underground. Sham I am saying this from years of experience in dealing with waywards , your wife is following a script. Today I am aware you are intent on leaving your wife tomorrow you may feel differently.

What I am guiding you to do is to nuke the OM via Facebook, his work or directly through his wife, nothing scares a wayward more than exposure and a wife who is going to strip his pants off in court.

This in turn should cause joy - sarcasm here- in your your wifes life and as she is still in contact with OM that joy will fade as his stress levels climb. You keeping dark says that they cannot blame you as you are out of the picture, you are no longer there to meet her EN's and the OM certainly cannot so she will be alone. Some waywards are indeed selfish and conceited with little and no remote for what they have done however a little shake on the OM tree, the distribution of the truth has a great effect short and long term.

Set out your task list share it if you wish and follow the plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

MarriedTex said:


> Hey Sham,
> 
> This is an awesome amount of self-realization to achieve in such a short time. Good progress. but you will have setbacks in the next few months. These are to be expected. Don't beat yourself or get melancholy when these thoughts of remorse, regret creep in. Don't shut them out. Make sure you allow yourself the chance to feel these feelings. It's part of the healing process. At the same time, don't let yourself wallow in despiar. Take some time to acknowledge the feelings and then set your site on the next task- the next work-out, the next meeting with a friend, the next work project.
> 
> You will be more than fine over time, but it will take time to heal fully. Be kind enough to yourself to recognize the ups and the downs of the healing process. Best of luck.


Thanks...I had a moment of clarity tonight and decided to fire that off. That said, two nights ago I was really in the dumps (I blame the hotel bartender pouring me free scotch). So whether tonight's mindset was based in reality, at least I have an idea of what it will be like to get there. Expecting to go up and down, not looking forward to it. But tonight was good.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sham to help you move forward you need to get out of the hotel, give up all drinking it distorts your mind. Find a temporary place to live that you can make yours . Look after your health, even see a doctor, eat wholesome foods and exercise, this is going to be a rollercoaster ride for some time. Try keep your body and mind as heathy as you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shammie, you are very far ahead of most who go through something like this. I'm glad you had your moment of clarity and you also know there will be ups and downs.

While I do favor telling OMW, I don't think you should make it a never-ending *mission* - especially if she proves to be nearly impossible to reach. At some point you need to make your mission 100% about you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Send text to both cells. "Your husband works with my wife I have info you need." Call me at *******.


----------



## Gabriel

Not a fan of the text idea. She could just show that to her husband and say, "WTF is this?" which then tips him off the Sham is going after him.

I would go in this order

1) try reaching her through the work switchboard or admin assistant
2) leave cryptic message on each cell, saying something like, "You don't know me, but my name is _______, my wife's name is ________ and I have hard proof your husband and my wife are having an affair. Wanted to tell you live but you weren't answering your phone. If you want details please email me at _______" Give no phone numbers.
3) then let it go. If she doesn't email you she either already knows or doesn't want to know. And your job is done.


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Not a fan of the text idea. She could just show that to her husband and say, "WTF is this?" which then tips him off the Sham is going after him.
> 
> I would go in this order
> 
> 1) try reaching her through the work switchboard or admin assistant
> 2) leave cryptic message on each cell, saying something like, "You don't know me, but my name is _______, my wife's name is ________ and I have hard proof your husband and my wife are having an affair. Wanted to tell you live but you weren't answering your phone. If you want details please email me at _______" Give no phone numbers.
> 3) then let it go. If she doesn't email you she either already knows or doesn't want to know. And your job is done.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I like that much better. He also needs to put her husbands name on message in case its a wrong number and it lets her know he got the right number.


----------



## golfergirl

chapparal said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I like that much better.


She answered weird numbers before (when PI called). I would try landline from somewhere oher than hotel where Sham is staying first. Lawyer's office maybe? And leave a message. I would try a landline just to see if he can get her to answer.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

Shamwow said:


> I am coming to terms with the fact that my wife fell out of love with me, declined to tell me one word about it, began preparing to string me along in limbo to support her for as long as she needed to get her house in order and leave, not really caring how cold that was.


Note to the wives: Please tell us when this happens. Work with us. Maybe we can fix it together.


----------



## crossbar

He could also send a certified letter. She has to sign for it so OM can't intercept it. Lay it all out and leave your cell number and inform her that you have more information on the matter and to give you a call.


----------



## washburn

crossbar said:


> He could also send a certified letter. She has to sign for it so OM can't intercept it. Lay it all out and leave your cell number and inform her that you have more information on the matter and to give you a call.


EH Ive signed for certified letters that werent to me....it seems just as long as they get to the address and somebody signs them they are satisfied. I also didnt like the text idea. Maybe do as one suggested and get PI to hand deliver a packet to her. I dont think it would be that costly...maybe an hour or two of the PIs time


----------



## crossbar

PI's are expensive. Heck, Sham spent $650 for a PI to find two numbers. For that kind of money, Sham could just fly out there and tell her in person.

Does the OMW cell number identify the OMW in the voicemail meesage or is it an automated voice?


----------



## Gabriel

washburn said:


> EH Ive signed for certified letters that werent to me....it seems just as long as they get to the address and somebody signs them they are satisfied. I also didnt like the text idea. Maybe do as one suggested and get PI to hand deliver a packet to her. I dont think it would be that costly...maybe an hour or two of the PIs time


I agree with no certified letter. I have been given the right to sign for things, buy things, pick up things, etc for my wife by just saying, "I'm her husband". Most people just say "okay" to that, and let you take it on their behalf.


----------



## MarriedTex

Hey folks, 

I think many posters are missing the point here. Contacting OMW is about the fifth or sixth things on Shamwow's list of important things to do. His top priority should be 

1. Setting up a new homestead
2. Executing paperwork to initiate divorce
3. Retrieve stuff & dog
4. Setting up work area in his new home
5. Re-starting client gigs. (Usually takes awhile to re-start freelance pipeline
6 . Get tested for STDs (regardless of what texts or panty results say. You can't trust anything from ex-Sham)

After that, if he is so inclined, he can reach out to OMW. But he has plenty on his plate right now. Satisfying the blood lust of our little Internet lynch mob is not what Sham needs to be concentrating on for himself. 

In some perverse way, not contacting OMW right away may inflict more pain on OM. If he's trying to hold marriage together, OM never knows is "THIS" is the day that his (married) world will get shattered by Shamwow exposure. 

So, now here's some grist for the lynch mob crowd:

Indeed, it might even be tempting to e-mail OM directly and write "Give me a reason I shouldn't share everything I know with your wife." (He has OM's e-mail from Mrs. Shamwow e-mail access.) Maybe with a cryptic ending: "By the way, I do know where you live." (Maybe even use Google Earth to identify some neighborhood landmark that you could mention in a way that implies you've been hanging around his neighborhood.) 

Just as Sham was in almost more torture when information was shadowy and future uncertain, the threat of exposure would be almost more excruciating than the actual delivery of the information itself. 

You should probably just chalk this up as more fantasy scenarios from Web posters looking for for drama. But some food for thought once you get items 1 to 6 checked off your list. 

Best of luck.


----------



## Almostrecovered

MarriedTex said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I think many posters are missing the point here. Contacting OMW is about the fifth or sixth things on Shamwow's list of important things to do. His top priority should be
> 
> 1. Setting up a new homestead
> 2. Executing paperwork to initiate divorce
> 3. Retrieve stuff & dog
> 4. Setting up work area in his new home
> 5. Re-starting client gigs. (Usually takes awhile to re-start freelance pipeline
> 6 . Get tested for STDs (regardless of what texts or panty results say. You can't trust anything from ex-Sham)
> 
> After that, if he is so inclined, he can reach out to OMW. But he has plenty on his plate right now. Satisfying the blood lust of our little Internet lynch mob is not what Sham needs to be concentrating on for himself.
> 
> In some perverse way, not contacting OMW right away may inflict more pain on OM. If he's trying to hold marriage together, OM never knows is "THIS" is the day that his (married) world will get shattered by Shamwow exposure.
> 
> So, now here's some grist for the lynch mob crowd:
> 
> I*ndeed, it might even be tempting to e-mail OM directly and write "Give me a reason I shouldn't share everything I know with your wife." (He has OM's e-mail from Mrs. Shamwow e-mail access.) Maybe with a cryptic ending: "By the way, I do know where you live." (Maybe even use Google Earth to identify some neighborhood landmark that you could mention in a way that implies you've been hanging around his neighborhood.) *
> 
> Just as Sham was in almost more torture when information was shadowy and future uncertain, the threat of exposure would be almost more excruciating than the actual delivery of the information itself.
> 
> You should probably just chalk this up as more fantasy scenarios from Web posters looking for for drama. But some food for thought once you get items 1 to 6 checked off your list.
> 
> Best of luck.



while I agree that sham should prioritize given the fact OMW has proven difficult to contact, I really disagree with bolded statement


----------



## MarriedTex

Almostrecovered said:


> while I agree that sham should prioritize given the fact OMW has proven difficult to contact, I really disagree with bolded statement


Almost, 

Yeah, I tend to agree that contacting OM is wrong path. Just trying to divert attention of some posters from the "contact OMW" drumbeat.


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> PI's are expensive. Heck, Sham spent $650 for a PI to find two numbers. For that kind of money, Sham could just fly out there and tell her in person.
> 
> Does the OMW cell number identify the OMW in the voicemail meesage or is it an automated voice?


It's her. VM says, "Hi, this is OMW. please leave me a message."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

I hope you don't seriously consider leaving a VM message to her considering that the OM may hear it first and not only delete the message before his wife has a chance to listen to it but block the phone number you are calling from. Speak to her directly and inform her only when the OM is not with her (you ask if her husband is with her first).


----------



## sam83

Shamwow said:


> It's her. VM say, "Hi, this is OMW. please leave me a message."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think u have to leave message man keep it short like plz call me back at xxxxxxx it's important 

I think she'll call u 

hope u r doing well with all of this


----------



## Shamwow

MarriedTex said:


> Almost,
> 
> Yeah, I tend to agree that contacting OM is wrong path. Just trying to divert attention of some posters from the "contact OMW" drumbeat.


Yeah, certainly tempting to put a little more vague fear in OM life, but would never consider a threat, especially in writing. Guessing my lawyer would slap me hard across the face if I did that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> It's her. VM say, "Hi, this is OMW. please leave me a message."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Leave a message.

"Mrs. OM, I would like to speak with you regarding the inappropriate relationship between your husband and my wife."


I'm pretty sure that will get a cal back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

I agree AND disagree. I agree that nothing good would come from contacting the OM. He didn't give a damn about Sham's marriage. Why would he give a damn about Sham?

I disagree for the need to minimize the importance of contacting the OMW. That poor woman has the RIGHT to know what kind of man she married. She has a right to know that her marriage is a lie. She may aready have an IDEA of what's going on, but doesn't have all the piece's of the puzzle. Maybe Sham has those piece's and he can be instrumental in providing the big picture for her.

Now, as Sham stated earlier that they live in an "at fault" state. If the OMW is divorcing the OM, then Sham could provide the evidence, or the tools she'll need to the disolve the marriage in anyway SHE feels fit. Sham would be able to provide her the empowerment that she may not have at the moment.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Is there anyone you know who lives anywhere near OMW? If not, maybe you and your friend could go on a road trip. It might be fun and a great way to get away. Or, someone from this forum could help?

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

1. Setting up a new homestead
2. Executing paperwork to initiate divorce
3. Retrieve stuff & dog
4. Setting up work area in his new home
5. Re-starting client gigs. (Usually takes awhile to re-start freelance pipeline
6 . Get tested for STDs (regardless of what texts or panty results say. You can't trust anything from ex-Sham)


Agreed. Looking at apts today and tomorrow, hopefully the first one is acceptable and I can just say, "it's fine, I'll take it." then I can move on to getting my stuff and my dog sometime over the weekend and get settled. Having a home base would be very helpful right now.

Will be able jump right back into work. Basically have a few projects that we just pushed deadlines on, so I will not want for work, I can dive in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> Is there anyone you know who lives anywhere near OMW? If not, maybe you and your friend could go on a road trip. It might be fun and a great way to get away. Or, someone from this forum could help?
> 
> Cypress


I have some friends in the OMW general vicinity, most I haven't talked to in years. Thought about the same thing but seems a little odd to say, "Hey! How you been since 2008? Yeah? Great man. Hey, can you drive to _____ and drop off a package for me to this girl, and ONLY her?"

(of course wouldn't be like that, but I've avoided thinking about it based on the underlying concept.)

That said, I know a few who would probably do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

tacoma said:


> Leave a message.
> 
> "Mrs. OM, I would like to speak with you regarding the inappropriate relationship between your husband and my wife."
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that will get a cal back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suggest something close to this.

"Mrs. OM, I would like to speak with you regarding your husband and my wife. My number is XXX-XXX-XXXX"

Leave message on both phones. Wait a few days. Leave message again.

If no response, send a short summary letter to Mrs. OM at her work place.

If no response, let it go. She'll contact when she's or her lawyer is ready.


----------



## sh0t

I'm from the other forum. Saw this thread posted on there, read the whole thing and I've been following it.

Just wanted to post some support and say that you aren't alone in this. Many of us have gone through similar.

Thanks for sharing your experience so the the inexperienced among us can share in your lessons learned.


----------



## washburn

aug said:


> I suggest something close to this.
> 
> "Mrs. OM, I would like to speak with you regarding your husband and my wife. My number is XXX-XXX-XXXX"
> 
> Leave message on both phones. Wait a few days. Leave message again.
> 
> If no response, send a short summary letter to Mrs. OM at her work place.
> 
> If no response, let it go. She'll contact when she's or her lawyer is ready.


Eh or she might ask hubby "hey you know this guy at all"? He called and left me this message..." And then he might spin it somehow to ruin it all

maybe get some sort of specialized courier service (not mail) to deliver a packet to her workplace? If it goes there to her, no hubby can intercept that...


----------



## aug

washburn said:


> Eh or she might ask hubby "hey you know this guy at all"? He called and left me this message..." And then he might spin it somehow to ruin it all
> 
> maybe get some sort of specialized courier service (not mail) to deliver a packet to her workplace? If it goes there to her, no hubby can intercept that...


Yes, she could ask her husband.

courier with signature required at her work place is a better idea.

I suggest Sham keeps the content of the letter simple and classy.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Sham,
I have been watching while banned. It’s been like watching a plane crash. All of the talking heads on CNN (posters here) and a lynch mob attitude made it painful to watch. It got to the point where I was only reading your posts. You discovered your wife’s indiscretions the same way I did – in fact I suggested you check the deleted messages on the IPhone the way I did. I know precisely the feelings you have gone through reading them and I very sorry you had to go through that. It hurt to know I was the one that pointed you that way.
On the subject of where you are at now, I agree with Tex list with one caveat. Keep the lease on the apt. either month to month or 6 months max. so your trapped if things change. I think you need time to work through the initial shock. All of the talking heads and mind readers here are feeding you worst case only and none of them can speak for the real truth – not even you because there has been no contact or discussions. I think you need time to think and write out questions you need answers to for either closure or to decide which way you really want to go in the future. Your wife did some terrible things – so did mine. But don’t fall into the same trap she has of painting her and everything in the past with a black brush. Ask the questions. Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion. This is especially true when you interrogate, are angry or question everything they say which is a natural tendency when you are having the pain and betrayal your feeling. This is why I agree you need time away from her to get over the shock and for her to really think about the future and what she wants. In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it. I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode. What I’m trying to tell you is the mind readers can’t and neither can you.
No push for R. But for your own sake, getting to the truth would bring closure if nothing else. It amy also change your mind about D. Keep the paperwork going to the point of signing. She needs the shock therapy. But crack the door open a tiny amount and see what happens. Text her “If you are ready to talk and be COMLETELY honest as well as transparent, let me know by text.” If you do decied to meet, remember you cannot deal with this in one all out marathon session. Short discussions stopped as soon as yours or her emotions flare.

One question I had – is your backup drive still at the house? Do you think she may backed up since getting back? Can you get at the backup files on her computer? The last trip info and the info since would tell you a lot.


----------



## Almostrecovered

:slap:


----------



## PHTlump

I've never seen someone so invested in ensuring that another man doesn't get divorced, even though he and his wife want to. :scratchhead:


----------



## useable

i think reconciliation must not be in place in this case.
divorce is the only option and Sham, next time pick single woman instead of divorced b++++h to marry.


----------



## Gabriel

useable said:


> i think reconciliation must not be in place in this case.
> divorce is the only option and Sham, next time pick single woman instead of divorced b++++h to marry.


This isn't a healthy post. I'm okay with 8 years saying all of that - he can disagree. I do think R is very, very close to impossible here, but weirder things have happened. I wouldn't be able to R in his case, and I am a very loyal person.

8 years does say something I agree with though. You have to meet up with her at some point, even if it's just to deal with logistics. I said before that you can't stay dark forever - going dark was good, but at some point you have to deal with all of this. Just get really strong first.


----------



## girlfromipanema

useable said:


> divorce is the only option and Sham, next time pick single woman instead of divorced b++++h to marry.


Please don't forget that many of us women have more in common with Shamwow's character than Mrs. Shamwow's character (or lack thereof).


----------



## Almostrecovered

I hope Jellybeans doesn't hurt useable


----------



## jenaa

8 years was pushing hard for him to stay and have an honest discussion with her rather than just bolting before she came home from her trip. That was like watching a train wreck. (although it kind of worked out, it gave her a chance to really dig her grave and show her colors).
There are far more people reading this that wish they had handled things in the manner that Shamwow is from the get-go, rather than dragged things out.
Dignity matters. Not everyone is willing to live a life of triggers, checking passwords, vars etc... ick.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Almostrecovered said:


> I hope Jellybeans doesn't hurt useable


:rofl:


----------



## crossbar

Not sure if I would sit down to have an honest discussion with her. If I were to do that, I would wait till the lab results came back. I think we can safely speculate that they are going to be positive. With that knowledge in hand, I would sit down and have an "honest" discuss and ask if she slept with the guy. If she still says, "No" I would get up and walk out because an "honest discussion isn't happening.

But that's just me....


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think she has proven that no matter what the question, the answer won't be honest. No use sitting down to have the discussion.


----------



## Entropy3000

PHTlump said:


> I've never seen someone so invested in ensuring that another man doesn't get divorced, even though he and his wife want to. :scratchhead:


Agreed. He needs to move his life forward. She is not in a fog. I hate to see folks get divorced but really, this is just toxic. His life is not over. He can move on and be happy. Sometimes you stop trying to repair things and start over. She seems very vindictive to me. She does not want him. Let her go. So she can find her own happiness. She evidently is seraching for something he cannot or is unwilling to supply. He should not be willing to be treated this way. She may have some need to lie to her spouse and treat them like a doormat. I don't think this defines a healthy relationship for Sham in particualr. There are men more accepting of humiliation. He does not sound like one of them.


----------



## Entropy3000

jenaa said:


> 8 years was pushing hard for him to stay and have an honest discussion with her rather than just bolting before she came home from her trip. That was like watching a train wreck. (although it kind of worked out, it gave her a chance to really dig her grave and show her colors).
> There are far more people reading this that wish they had handled things in the manner that Shamwow is from the get-go, rather than dragged things out.
> *Dignity matters. Not everyone is willing to live a life of triggers, checking passwords, vars etc... ick.*


:iagree:

There is no happiness without dignity.

That goes for both men and women but dignity / respect is a close #2 in the list for most men's needs. Really #1 and #2 are both required to even be able to work at a marriage in search for #3 ...


----------



## useable

useable said:


> i think reconciliation must not be in place in this case.
> divorce is the only option and Sham, next time pick single woman instead of divorced b++++h*(your stbx)* to marry.


that's what i mean


----------



## 8yearscheating

More tea leaves. When do the tarot cards come out? I did not push R. A few months out of 8 years is not much. Everyone here has created what they think she is doing and has done adn it's been said so many times it's believed to be fact. A statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> Not sure if I would sit down to have an honest discussion with her. If I were to do that, I would wait till the lab results came back. I think we can safely speculate that they are going to be positive. With that knowledge in hand, I would sit down and have an "honest" discuss and ask if she slept with the guy. If she still says, "No" I would get up and walk out because an "honest discussion isn't happening.
> 
> But that's just me....


He tried this BEFORE the Vegas trip. yeah, yeah yeah. That was then and this is now. She has not given the slightest inclination she is ready for such a chat. I actually do not see the purpose now. He also tried before her last trip. Who is this supposed to help? If it is for seeking closure, that may be a dubious search for the grail. 

Self flagellation is seen by some as a holy / spiritual thing. I think a lot of that goes a long way and gets to be unhealthy. It is not good for the spirit past a little bit. Marriages are too important to be a one way street.


----------



## 8yearscheating

And NO ONE is in Sham's shoes.


----------



## crossbar

Entropy3000 said:


> He tried this BEFORE the Vegas trip. yeah, yeah yeah. That was then and this is now. She has not given the slightest inclination she is ready for such a chat. I actually do not see the purpose now. He also tried before her last trip. Who is this supposed to help? If it is for seeking closure, that may be a dubious search for the grail.
> 
> Self flagellation is seen by some as a holy / spiritual thing. I think a lot of that goes a long way and gets to be unhealthy. It is not good for the spirit past a little bit. Marriages are too important to be a one way street.


 That's why I said that I was not sure that I would do that... you're right....moot point.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> More tea leaves. When do the tarot cards come out? I did not push R. A few months out of 8 years is not much. Everyone here has created what they think she is doing and has done adn it's been said so many times it's believed to be fact. A statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement.


She has admitted to enough. All the rest of the specualtion is just additional fuel for the fire. BUT he knows enough now. She told him enough on the phone when he asked her to come home. I will not repeat the conversation, but that alone is unfaithful and worthy of a D.

Now go ahead and add all the other information he does have.

No he did not pull his wife off of the OM while she was riding him. I say it does not matter. It does not matter even if everything she has said is true. What he does know is way more than enough.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Did anyone actually READ what I said? Have you examined why her texts may be what they are?
"Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion. This is especially true when you interrogate, are angry or question everything they say which is a natural tendency when you are having the pain and betrayal your feeling. This is why I agree you need time away from her to get over the shock and for her to really think about the future and what she wants. In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it. I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode."

This is precisely what my wife did initially. She saw no hope, all she saw was what she thought was the easy way out of the mess she created - D.

IF you folks would think JUST a little about what is happening to her from her side, you might get the whole picture instead of your jaded viewpoint.


----------



## 8yearscheating

And real smooth creating more mind movies for SHam.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> That's why I said that I was not sure that I would do that... you're right....moot point.


Yes, you and I agree, I was just leveraging off of your post.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Self flagellation - real smooth too.


----------



## 8yearscheating

ANd your right, the one way street your suggesting may be a dead end.


----------



## Entropy3000

Sham, good luck dude. You are on the right path.


----------



## Entropy3000

8yearscheating said:


> Self flagellation - real smooth too.


I am saying that at some point we should stop beating ourselves up. That is self flagellation. Creating mind games on ourselves. We are only human. At some point we have to realize that we are not responsible for everyone elses flaws / problems. I do believe in going the extra mile. But there comes a point where we are doing more damage than good. I have been there sir. I respect that you have too.


----------



## Almostrecovered

8yearscheating said:


> IF you folks would think JUST a little about what is happening to her from her side, you might get the whole picture instead of your jaded viewpoint.



Have you forgotten that she has essentially planned an exit strategy prior to getting caught and was looking into funneling money away from joint accounts and that her plans went awry due to SW being so proactive to act first instead? I would seriously doubt that any signs remorse would be anything other than a ploy to tide him over so she could get what she wants and then exit into the night.


----------



## Gabriel

8years is speculating that it's possible Sham's W is saying all this stuff to make things easier on her and Sham to end it. I respectfully disagree, not out of speculation, but by reading the actual texts Sham shared. 

Fact: She already divorced once and has experience with it
Fact: She was completetly inappropriate with the OM
Fact: Sham confronted her before he KNEW anything. She had a chance to come clean, and lied. She also was ASKED by Sham to not go to Vegas. She went anyway to be with the OM
Fact: Sham wrote her a stern but LOVING letter when he left
Fact: Her first text to him after that was "so you cracked into my Skype, huh? Clever."

Fact #3 and #5 above tell me Sham's wife is all about doing what Sham's wife wants to do, and she has no remorse or remaining feelings for her husband. No consideration for him at all.

8 years, please point to a spot on this thread that makes you think otherwise. Not speculation like you are acusing us of doing, but based on facts like I describe above. Maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## crossbar

Almostrecovered said:


> Have you forgotten that she has essentially planned an exit strategy prior to getting caught and was looking into funneling money away from joint accounts and that her plans went awry due to SW being so proactive to act first instead? I would seriously doubt that any signs remorse would be anything other than a ploy to tide him over so she could get what she wants and then exit into the night.




Isn't that what Sham's WW told him she did at the end of her first marriage? I seriously hope he informed his lawyer about the Financal Planner!


----------



## piqued

8yearscheating said:


> Did anyone actually READ what I said? Have you examined why her texts may be what they are?
> "Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion. This is especially true when you interrogate, are angry or question everything they say which is a natural tendency when you are having the pain and betrayal your feeling. This is why I agree you need time away from her to get over the shock and for her to really think about the future and what she wants. In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it. I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode."
> 
> This is precisely what my wife did initially. She saw no hope, all she saw was what she thought was the easy way out of the mess she created - D.
> 
> IF you folks would think JUST a little about what is happening to her from her side, you might get the whole picture instead of your jaded viewpoint.


The only problem with this 8 years is that Sham has texts/emails from her to others talking about how SHE wants to end the marriage. These texts go back months. To forget this point, and posit that her lack of saying _anything_ the least bit remorseful is due to an inability on her part to communicate is IMHO being a little short sighted. And, considering the above, to suggest that she hasn't said anything contrite because she doesn't want to hurt Sham more is really getting out there on the realistic scale.

I have no distaste for this woman; I've never met her. But, while acknowledging that there are two sides to every story, the emperical evidence DOES suggest she is a very cold person. To point this out doesn't make one part of a lynch mob.


----------



## Catherine602

useable said:


> i think reconciliation must not be in place in this case.
> divorce is the only option and Sham, next time pick single woman instead of divorced b++++h to marry.


If women are B's just by virtue of being divorced then so are men. That's not very encouraging for Sham is it. What single women would marry such a man? If she has any sense, she would marry a single man free of the baggage of bitterness and entitlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Catherine602 said:


> If women are B's just by virtue of being divorced then so are men.


First, useable was imprecise in his language. He corrected it in a later post. He was referring to a specific divorced woman in Sham's STBX. Second, just because women have a specific trait does not imply that men must share that trait. Men and women have considerable differences.


----------



## Cypress

Look folks,

This thread is for Sham. Not for us to debate the merits of each others posts. All Sham needs right now is for this thread to get locked up. He needs support, not theoretical debate



Stop any talk that could create mind movies.
Stop attacking each other
Don't vilify Mrs. Sham, leave that to Sham if he wants to do that.
Focus on Sham's needs.
It looks like 8years got banned again.

Cypress


----------



## PHTlump

8yearscheating said:


> "Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion.


There are other possibilities. They may lie in order to manipulate or cause additional pain.


8yearscheating said:


> In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it.


This is nonsense. I still feel badly about bad breakups I had decades ago. Since I am married, as are most of my ex-girlfriends, there is absolutely no chance that we will work things out. However, that doesn't preclude my feeling remorse in the least. Sham's wife is free to apologize at any time. Not in a "Sorry you caught me, that must have been rough" sense, which is the kindest interpretation of some of her texts. But in the "I'm so sorry I betrayed you in the worst possible way" sense.



8yearscheating said:


> I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode."


There's no need. Sham is in a no-fault state. There are no kids to fight over. Sham's lawyer has stated that all the assets/debts are basically cut and dried for splitting up.



8yearscheating said:


> IF you folks would think JUST a little about what is happening to her from her side, you might get the whole picture instead of your jaded viewpoint.


That's good advice. Two months ago, Sham's wife decided she was done. She jumped head long into an affair, started discussing leaving Sham with the OM and with friends, kept Sham in the dark about it, met with a financial planner to hide assets, lied to Sham when he began to suspect, then showed no remorse when he found proof. The poor thing.


----------



## MarriedTex

8yearscheating said:


> More tea leaves. When do the tarot cards come out? I did not push R. A few months out of 8 years is not much. Everyone here has created what they think she is doing and has done adn it's been said so many times it's believed to be fact. A statement containing facts is not necessarily a factual statement.


8years,

Even after everything that has happened, Sham has said that he would leave a window open for reviving the R. 

The thing that hurt him the most was not the cheating. It was the texts in which she called him "Stewie" and generally insulted everything Sham brought to their relationship. Sure, it was probably egged on by the OM trying to get into her pants. But they resonated as the truth to Sham. His eyes were opened to a side that she had never shown him before. It hurt him. Before you go preaching to him to re-open the dialogue, recognize this. It hurt him and hurt him bad.

It takes two to tango. After reading what he read in the texts, Sham can't be the first to show a ***** in the armor - even if it he knew it could revive the relationship. There is no relationship to revive unless ex-Sham in some way acknowledges or atones for the massive hurt she has laid upon Sham. So far, she hasn't even come close to any type of mea culpa that would allow dialogue to re-start. Indeed, in her communication, she has come across only as snarky and self-serving. 

Counter-intuitively, if there is any hope for a relationship, Sham needs to stay dark for as long as it takes for him to re-build his strength. If he opens the door to her, she will think that she "got away with it" and has him under her thumb. The only condition a resumed R would work is if she came clean with a full explanation, apology and set of promises that restores Sham to some level of equality in the relationship. He cannot get that long-term equality if he makes the magnanimous gesture of re-opening the relationship.

The only way Sham gets to the "fairy tale" ending that you envision in a resumption of the R is to stay dark, get stronger and show that he can move forward without her. Only then will he grow beyond this vision of "Stewie" that she created in her own mind and begin to see him once more as an equal partner. No, this is not likely to happen. But I think it is nearly "forum particpant malpractice" to advise him otherwise.


----------



## Dadof3

MarriedTex said:


> 8years,
> 
> Even after everything that has happened, Sham has said that he would leave a window open for reviving the R.
> 
> The thing that hurt him the most was not the cheating. It was the texts in which she called him "Stewie" and generally insulted everything Sham brought to their relationship. Sure, it was probably egged on by the OM trying to get into her pants. But they resonated as the truth to Sham. His eyes were opened to a side that she had never shown him before. It hurt him. Before you go preaching to him to re-open the dialogue, recognize this. It hurt him and hurt him bad.
> 
> It takes two to tango. After reading what he read in the texts, Sham can't be the first to show a ***** in the armor - even if it he knew it could revive the relationship. There is no relationship to revive unless ex-Sham in some way acknowledges or atones for the massive hurt she has laid upon Sham. So far, she hasn't even come close to any type of mea culpa that would allow dialogue to re-start. Indeed, in her communication, she has come across only as snarky and self-serving.
> 
> Counter-intuitively, if there is any hope for a relationship, Sham needs to stay dark for as long as it takes for him to re-build his strength. If he opens the door to her, she will think that she "got away with it" and has him under her thumb. The only condition a resumed R would work is if she came clean with a full explanation, apology and set of promises that restores Sham to some level of equality in the relationship. He cannot get that long-term equality if he makes the magnanimous gesture of re-opening the relationship.
> 
> The only way Sham gets to the "fairy tale" ending that you envision in a resumption of the R is to stay dark, get stronger and show that he can move forward without her. Only then will he grow beyond this vision of "Stewie" that she created in her own mind and begin to see him once more as an equal partner. No, this is not likely to happen. But I think it is nearly "forum particpant malpractice" to advise him otherwise.


Hey folks!

I don't think that 8Years is denying anything any of you have said. He is merely trying to state that D or no, there is another approach that can be taken with regards to STBXW that doesn't have to involve the lynch mob mentality that has evolved on this thread. He's hearing it all - he's just advocating a different take, one that should be considered. 

Emotionally, Sham's W seems be somewhat child-like in her mentality as far as taking responsibility. She's made a lot of errors in judgement. 8Years is advocating that there maybe another way through this without the lynch mob script that most are advocating and without Sham loosing his man-up card.

Ultimately, it comes down to what Sham feels is best and all of us will support him, whether or not we agree.


----------



## Shamwow

8yearscheating said:


> Sham,
> I have been watching while banned. It’s been like watching a plane crash. All of the talking heads on CNN (posters here) and a lynch mob attitude made it painful to watch. It got to the point where I was only reading your posts. You discovered your wife’s indiscretions the same way I did – in fact I suggested you check the deleted messages on the IPhone the way I did. I know precisely the feelings you have gone through reading them and I very sorry you had to go through that. It hurt to know I was the one that pointed you that way.
> On the subject of where you are at now, I agree with Tex list with one caveat. Keep the lease on the apt. either month to month or 6 months max. so your trapped if things change. I think you need time to work through the initial shock. All of the talking heads and mind readers here are feeding you worst case only and none of them can speak for the real truth – not even you because there has been no contact or discussions. I think you need time to think and write out questions you need answers to for either closure or to decide which way you really want to go in the future. Your wife did some terrible things – so did mine. But don’t fall into the same trap she has of painting her and everything in the past with a black brush. Ask the questions. Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion. This is especially true when you interrogate, are angry or question everything they say which is a natural tendency when you are having the pain and betrayal your feeling. This is why I agree you need time away from her to get over the shock and for her to really think about the future and what she wants. In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it. I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode. What I’m trying to tell you is the mind readers can’t and neither can you.
> No push for R. But for your own sake, getting to the truth would bring closure if nothing else. It amy also change your mind about D. Keep the paperwork going to the point of signing. She needs the shock therapy. But crack the door open a tiny amount and see what happens. Text her “If you are ready to talk and be COMLETELY honest as well as transparent, let me know by text.” If you do decied to meet, remember you cannot deal with this in one all out marathon session. Short discussions stopped as soon as yours or her emotions flare.
> 
> One question I had – is your backup drive still at the house? Do you think she may backed up since getting back? Can you get at the backup files on her computer? The last trip info and the info since would tell you a lot.



8years,

I hope it doesn't come off as bad as al that. Yeah, she's been cold. And I've relayed that here...but as far as her general demeanor over the last few months (particularly the last few weeks), even when given every chance to talk and be open with me, she denied. When confronted with *some* evidence, she denied, or even said it didn't matter, no big deal, no matter how I told her what that meant to me and our marriage. When she came back last week, I threw all the cards on the table (D), gave a few more chances to explain to me in her words what I already knew, and that I would listen, and she still stonewalled me. Once I found the texts, I saw that she had been telling people she had no feelings for me or our marriage anymore, and though at times seemed somewhat conflicted, has shown me no reason to think she has any emotions on the table for ME, or any future with me.

That's why if I make any obvious move to leave the door open a crack, she will she me as weak again, and I'm not ready for anything like that. I know I will have to speak with her before too long, and I'm getting to be okay with that...my point has been made, my stance is set, and she has to at least know that. The fear is dissipating, but it may just be because I haven't had to face her for 6 days now. When I'm ready, I'll go get my things with some friends...if she talks anything but business, I'll consider saying something like you mentioned above, otherwise I plan to keep it all business, because she has made it clear to many friends over the last few months, and now ME, that she's already checked out emotionally. Any attempt for me to crack that shell by requesting a conversation with her for closure or possible R will not do ME any good, only her. If she brings it up, I'll consider it, just with MY rules, as you mentioned above.

It's possible she synced and backed up her phone again since coming back. If I were her I wouldn't have though...but she has no idea how I got the info (or so it seems), she thinks I "hacked" into things. So maybe I could grab that drive and check. Particularly if she's out of the house.

Think I found my apt today, deposit paid, 6 mo lease. Can't move in until Tuesday or Wednesday though, so I'll be leaving town this weekend to visit a friend. On move-in day, I plan to take two friends with me to help me get out (and be a buffer of sorts), and am considering asking her close girlfriend if she would be willing to take my W out for a few hours, have some wine, and let me do what I need to do. I will see her that day, I presume, but I won't be talking any kind of R or regrets or anything, just business.


----------



## the guy

Sham
Please let me know when you can get your dog. The dog most likely is acting up and getting in the trash (ha he for STXW). They do that sometimes when a event like this takes place.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Sham, I wouldn't tell HER friend that you are going to get your stuff. 

If she knows you are coming, she can plan for it. If she is pissed that you are ignoring her, she might destroy some of your things (if she hasn't already).


----------



## Shamwow

SadSamIAm said:


> Sham, I wouldn't tell HER friend that you are going to get your stuff.
> 
> If she knows you are coming, she can plan for it. If she is pissed that you are ignoring her, she might destroy some of your things (if she hasn't already).


Hmm...think so?

Would people recommend I just show up wth some friends and start packing/moving without warning?

I'm open to suggestion on this point. Don't want a scene, and don't want to appear weak, that's all. Perhaps I could text her an hour before I plan to arrive.

"Will be over in an hour to get my things."

And if she destroyed any of my stuff, she will be paying for it eventually, as I have video of everything significant I left in the house (hers and mine) from an hour before I walked out the door, with brief verbal description of each thing, whose it is and whether I plan to take it with me.. Of course I'd have to sue her for the property and that could take years to get money from her...but I don't see her doing that. We shall see.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Sham
> Please let me know when you can get your dog. The dog most likely is acting up and getting in the trash (ha he for STXW). They do that sometimes when a event like this takes place.


Presuming Tues or Wed when I move the rest of my things. Poor little fella...he's too short to get to the garbage (dachshund), but I'm sure he's been wondering where I am. Our other little pup may be wondering too, but she doesn't have the "sad eyes" like mine does. Gonna be hard to split them up. But who knows, she might just say to take them both...I gladly would. Just can't leave her dogless, that would be cruel.

Speaking of which, my lawyer told me today I should get the nice guy award. And that I should put that crap right out of my head, because nice guys don't win here. (guessing giving up attorney/client privilege on that point here on the form won't hurt me any in the future) Goes to show what he's used to dealing with...as "hard" as I think I've been in handling this, at least for the last week or so, I'm the "nice guy" for not wanting to destroy her. Hell, she already has done a good job of that on her own.

No Fault state or not, she'd better act proper and get a good lawyer or my guy is just dying to step on her like a bug.


----------



## Gabriel

You have a key, right? I wouldn't warn her at all. I would just show up with a friend and a plan. If she's there and tries to engage you, you know what to do. Why warn her at all? Not sure that makes any sense. Yes you have to deal with her on some issues still, but I think that's best done later on, and not on your first encounter with her after exposure.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Totally up to you. You know her better than anyone.

Are you ready for a confrontation? 

You know you are going to have to talk to her eventually. Or maybe not, if you are sure about D. Then you can let your lawyer do the talking.

Sure would be good to get in there when she isn't around. Get the VAR and maybe get some more recent text messages. Would be nice for you to have positive proof in her voice (or text) that she physically cheated in Las Vegas when you do confront her. She will be telling you how nothing physical happened.


----------



## MrQuatto

Shamwow said:


> Hmm...think so?
> 
> Would people recommend I just show up wth some friends and start packing/moving without warning?
> 
> I'm open to suggestion on this point. Don't want a scene, and don't want to appear weak, that's all. Perhaps I could text her an hour before I plan to arrive.
> 
> "Will be over in an hour to get my things."
> 
> And if she destroyed any of my stuff, she will be paying for it eventually, as I have video of everything significant I left in the house (hers and mine) from an hour before I walked out the door, with brief audio description of each thing, who's it is and whether I plan to take it with me.. Of course I'd have to sue her for the property and that could take years to get money from her...but I don't see her doing that. We shall see.


Actually, I would discuss how to handle this with your atty if I were you. The atty will give you the best advice in this situation. The reason this is best is because each state is a little different in handling all these issues. 

Q~


----------



## Joanie

:iagree:


Catherine602 said:


> If women are B's just by virtue of being divorced then so are men. That's not very encouraging for Sham is it. What single women would marry such a man? If she has any sense, she would marry a single man free of the baggage of bitterness and entitlement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## golfergirl

Sham re: OMW try searching her number out through spokeo.com. Other posters on another thread are searching themselves out with interesting (accurate) results including religion, shopping habits etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Show up with a friend and HIS truck. Don't bring your car there. Would be a good opportunity to jump into the car and leave.

And I agree with your lawyer. You do deserve a 'nice guy' award. Make sure your lawyer knows about her discussions with a financial planner and her plan to stash cash before leaving.

Can't believe 8years is advocating you 'think of where she is at'. 

She is at where she is at because of her choices. Not a mistake that happened one night, but a PLANNED couple of months of using you and preparing to leave.


----------



## Shamwow

Just found out the H of my wife's close girlfriend invited my W out with them to big group volleyball party thing. Guess I know where he stands on the friend list. Also guess I should not ask him to be one of my moving buddies next week. Sigh.

Sucks that after knowing my side they would first commiserate with me, tell me how much they respect me for doing what I did and are there for me in anything I may need, and yet then go head and try to cheer her up from her "loneliness" and make life easier for her, and not ask me out to do things. Perhaps I should get used to this kind of thing?


----------



## Almostrecovered

Bear in mind most people try to remain neutral when it comes to friends divorcing, it might even be a case of the wife overruling the husbands wishes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> Bear in mind most people try to remain neutral when it comes to friends divorcing, it might even be a case of the wife overruling the husbands wishes
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know...but she's gonna take my friends too?? Jeezus, you were all right when you said this would get much harder before it gets easier. Hurts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> I know...but she's gonna take my friends too?? Jeezus, you were all right when you said this would get much harder before it gets easier. Hurts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is fraught with opportunity, though. You can pick stuff up while she is out at this party. or...... my spidey senses detect a SETUP!


----------



## Shamwow

On the upside maybe that night would be a good time to move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> This is fraught with opportunity, though. You can pick stuff up while she is out at this party. or...... my spidey senses detect a SETUP!


Setup? Like for her? Rock on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Anger is back. Clarity has left the building.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## washburn

Shamwow said:


> Just found out the H of my wife's close girlfriend invited my W out with them to big group volleyball party thing. Guess I know where he stands on the friend list. Also guess I should not ask him to be one of my moving buddies next week. Sigh.
> 
> Sucks that after knowing my side they would first commiserate with me, tell me how much they respect me for doing what I did and are there for me in anything I may need, and yet then go head and try to cheer her up from her "loneliness" and make life easier for her, and not ask me out to do things. Perhaps I should get used to this kind of thing?


Pick up your stuff during this party?


----------



## Gabriel

This doesn't mean they are choosing her over you. She isn't dark, remember? Her communication lines are open, and she's probably talked to her friend a lot, sold her the sob story. So they said, "Maybe we should ask XX along - given everything that's happened. Break the tension a little." 

They didn't ask you because you told them you weren't going to discuss things for awhile. They might just be honoring your wishes. 

Trying to give you a possible positive outlook on that.


----------



## Gabriel

No, by setup, they mean, "let's make it look like she won't be there, so then he might come to the house for his stuff, and then BAM!"

I doubt that's the case. BTW, how did you find this out?


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> Bear in mind most people try to remain neutral when it comes to friends divorcing, it might even be a case of the wife overruling the husbands wishes
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how is this neutral? Where's my party? How is everything still about her??? Sick...

But you may be right on the wife overruling on this one...they have been friends since the 5th grade, I get it. But still...hard to process and remain neutral myself I guess.


----------



## Gabriel

Also, if it were me, I would be coming out of the dark really soon, right after you grab your stuff. Not because of this, and not to make nice with the wife, but to just not appear to be hiding. You've got your new digs lined up, so get the stuff when she's at this party, then re-emerge from the dark a much stronger dude with a new appartment ready to go next week.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> I doubt that's the case. BTW, how did you find this out?


Email. Mass email, mine not included (for the first time in years). I know I sound like a whiny b****. Just want something for me here guys. **** her. Why cheer her up? She did things that no one respects, yet she has a sob story because I left her the night before her b-day? So what? She left me for 8 of the last 10 months for work, and gave me the crappiest birthday of my life a few weeks ago. She deserves no cheering up for her woes right now. Don't they know that she hasn't even apologized to me? Not even a little?


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, once you have your place, and your stuff, and your dog, then you can come out and tell your story to those that matter.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> Also, if it were me, I would be coming out of the dark really soon, right after you grab your stuff. Not because of this, and not to make nice with the wife, but to just not appear to be hiding. You've got your new digs lined up, so get the stuff when she's at this party, then re-emerge from the dark a much stronger dude with a new appartment ready to go next week.


Agreed. Sounds like good advice.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> And how is this neutral? Where's my party? How is everything still about her??? Sick...
> 
> But you may be right on the wife overruling on this one...they have been friends since the 5th grade, I get it. But still...hard to process and remain neutral myself I guess.



See what Gabriel wrote above, shes reaching out to people -you're not

It's possible they have plans to invite you to something else
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotLikeYou

Shamwow said:


> Email. Mass email, mine not included (for the first time in years). I know I sound like a whiny b****. Just want something for me here guys. **** her. Why cheer her up? She did things that no one respects, yet she has a sob story because I left her the niht before her b-day. So what? She left me for 8 of the last 10 months for work, and gave me the crappiest birthday of my life a few weeks ago. She deserved no cheering up for her woes right now. Don't they know that she hasn't even apologized to me? Not even a little?


No, they don't know because you haven't TOLD THEM ANYTHING.

If you decide to go get your stuff while she is out of the house, keep in mind that she might have gotten the locks changed. She is almost definitely using new email accounts, and she may have found the VAR.


----------



## Shamwow

NotLikeYou said:


> No, they don't know because you haven't TOLD THEM ANYTHING.
> 
> If you decide to go get your stuff while she is out of the house, keep in mind that she might have gotten the locks changed. She is almost definitely using new email accounts, and she may have found the VAR.


Yes I have. He knows the gist of the story as of a few days ago. Talked to him initially on Saturday and told him why I had to do what I did. He called yesterday asking how I was doing. I told him I was doing fine, getting things taken care of. He asked if I'd talked to her yet and I said no, except for sending over food for the dogs. He asked if I'd heard from her, and I said yes, by text...and mentioned that it's been all business though. He said he was surprised that she hadn't said Sorry. I said, "Um, yeah, me too."


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> See what Gabriel wrote above, shes reaching out to people -you're not
> 
> It's possible they have plans to invite you to something else
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Once again, I have reached out. Just not giving them a sob story after the initial blast of pertinent info. Don't need that getting back to her.

I've been aloof from friends, yes. But the only person I've been dark with is her.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Sometimes friends do choose sides in a divorce, sometimes they don't. They may have asked her to the party figuring you want to stay dark. Just call the friend and ask them.

You could tell Mrs. Sham that you will get you stuff while she is at the party (assuming your apt. is ready). If she does not want to confront you she will stay at the party. I think its time to get less dark and talk to her about your stuff. She won't be able to paint you as the bad guy if you start to communicate

Cypress


----------



## golfergirl

Shamwow said:


> Yes I have. He knows the gist of the story as of a few days ago. Talked to him initially on Saturday and told him why I had to do what I did. He called yesterday asking how I was doing. I told him I was doing fine, getting things taken care of. He asked if I'd talked to her yet and I said no, except for sending over food for the dogs. He asked if I'd heard from her, and I said yes, by text...and mentioned that it's been all business though. He said he was surprised that she hadn't said Sorry. I said, "Um, yeah, me too."


Spokeo.com
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, don't worry about it too much. Your #1 issue was dealing with your W in a proper way. You've done that very well. If you feel your wife is going to "win" with your friends, just wait until you show them a couple of the texts she wrote. You hold all the cards my friend, and everybody, even people that you think are "siding" with your wife, loves to hear juicy gossip. They'll listen. The talk of those texts will spread like a bad disease. 

I'm not recommending you slander your W out of spite. But if you feel friends cuddling in your wife's corner, you have ammo if you need it.


----------



## NotLikeYou

Shamwow said:


> Yes I have. He knows the gist of the story as of a few days ago. Talked to him initially on Saturday and told him why I had to do what I did. He called yesterday asking how I was doing. I told him I was doing fine, getting things taken care of. He asked if I'd talked to her yet and I said no, except for sending over food for the dogs. He asked if I'd heard from her, and I said yes, by text...and mentioned that it's been all business though. He said he was surprised that she hadn't said Sorry. I said, "Um, yeah, me too."


Ah. Well, if he commented on the complete lack of contrition, and now they're inviting her out for fun and games, you know whose friends they are. 

I know this sucks crap right now, but you're going to make it through this time in your life and come out of it with a better life, and better friends. 

I think getting your apartment will be a great step. You will have a new base to operate out of, and build things anew from there.

Keep going, man.


----------



## SadSamIAm

When is this Volleyball party? Might be a good idea for you to invite a few guy friends out for a beer the night before. Let them know that you are feeling down and could use some excitement. Once you are out, you can make sure they know your side of the story. You can bet that their wives will be wanting to know when they get home. Like Gabriel said, they will be gossiping the entire volleyball party. They might as well have both sides of the story.


----------



## Shamwow

Just got approval on the apt. Can't move in until at least Tues, so I have to store my stuff for a day or two if I go with the "volleyball party" moveout plan (Mon afternoon).

Sorry to complain about this friends thing...just don't think she'll ever "get hers" if she's really going to get away with complete absolution from friends. And she does not deserve that (at least not so easily and quickly), longtime friends or no.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Hmm...think so?
> 
> Would people recommend I just show up wth some friends and start packing/moving without warning?
> 
> I'm open to suggestion on this point. Don't want a scene, and don't want to appear weak, that's all. Perhaps I could text her an hour before I plan to arrive.
> 
> "Will be over in an hour to get my things."
> 
> And if she destroyed any of my stuff, she will be paying for it eventually, as I have video of everything significant I left in the house (hers and mine) from an hour before I walked out the door, with brief verbal description of each thing, whose it is and whether I plan to take it with me.. Of course I'd have to sue her for the property and that could take years to get money from her...but I don't see her doing that. We shall see.


I would do this. You could show up without warning, but I would give her an hour. Not much more. 

Essentially this is about low keying the whole thing. The least drama and pain for anyone. The longer the warning the bigger the build up and the bigger the chance for bad things to happen.

The most important thing is to go with a couple of friends. I would avoid bringing your car if at all possible. Rent a U-Haul truck of appropriate size. 

You probably could have a police officer there as well. That is what I suggest.


----------



## WhereAmI

Who says she gets them? It's easy to get down about pretty much anything right now, but this doesn't have to be an issue. Invite your friend out to have a drink in a few days. If he starts declining your offers consistently, then consider him gone. Don't write him off yet though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

Sham, PLEASE LET THE POLICE KNOW OF YOUR PLANS!!!!! If she agrees to let you come and get your stuff, she could call them while you're there, and have you dragged out of the house in handcuffs.

I can't stress this enough: HAVE A COP GO WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> Show up with a friend and HIS truck. Don't bring your car there. Would be a good opportunity to jump into the car and leave.
> 
> And I agree with your lawyer. You do deserve a 'nice guy' award. Make sure your lawyer knows about her discussions with a financial planner and her plan to stash cash before leaving.
> 
> Can't believe 8years is advocating you 'think of where she is at'.
> 
> She is at where she is at because of her choices. Not a mistake that happened one night, but a PLANNED couple of months of using you and preparing to leave.


Or she could damage it. No point in bringing it in harms way. Totally avoidable.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Just found out the H of my wife's close girlfriend invited my W out with them to big group volleyball party thing. Guess I know where he stands on the friend list. Also guess I should not ask him to be one of my moving buddies next week. Sigh.
> 
> Sucks that after knowing my side they would first commiserate with me, tell me how much they respect me for doing what I did and are there for me in anything I may need, and yet then go head and try to cheer her up from her "loneliness" and make life easier for her, and not ask me out to do things. Perhaps I should get used to this kind of thing?


He has to be able to sleep with his wife. His loyalty is there.


----------



## F-102

And it might not hurt to Google "dirty divorce tricks"-she sounds like the type that would use them!


----------



## Dadof3

SadSamIAm said:


> When is this Volleyball party? Might be a good idea for you to invite a few guy friends out for a beer the night before. Let them know that you are feeling down and could use some excitement. Once you are out, you can make sure they know your side of the story. You can bet that their wives will be wanting to know when they get home. Like Gabriel said, they will be gossiping the entire volleyball party. They might as well have both sides of the story.


From the "messin' with their heads" point-of-view, I find something appealing and refreshing about this suggestion....

How will she like that? Ha! Take that!


----------



## golfergirl

Entropy3000 said:


> He has to be able to sleep with his wife. His loyalty is there.


In my divorce, my ex gravitated to mutual friends. I kept cool and mouth shut. After a few months of him bad-mouthing me and me taking high road, they tired of him and he was out. She's spilling the drama, they'll get story and be done with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Email. Mass email, mine not included (for the first time in years). I know I sound like a whiny b****. Just want something for me here guys. **** her. Why cheer her up? She did things that no one respects, yet she has a sob story because I left her the night before her b-day? So what? She left me for 8 of the last 10 months for work, and gave me the crappiest birthday of my life a few weeks ago. She deserves no cheering up for her woes right now. Don't they know that she hasn't even apologized to me? Not even a little?


That is why earlier I suggested that you find a whole new life and a whole new set of friends.


----------



## WhereAmI

Dadof3 said:


> From the "messin' with their heads" point-of-view, I find something appealing and refreshing about this suggestion....
> 
> How will she like that? Ha! Take that!


Bonus points for continually referring to the OM as her "married affair partner." If one of my friends were having an affair with a married man, I'd get rid of them pronto. I'm not endangering my M!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

:smthumbup:

This isn't a bad idea. It can be under innocent pretenses. One of them will ask, "so.....what's up?" And you can tell them. But if it were me, I wouldn't tell them you are inviting them to "get your story out". Once at the bar, you can share what you want. Your W might end up being the elephant in the room at the volleyball party then, which wouldn't be a bad thing.


----------



## Entropy3000

F-102 said:


> Sham, PLEASE LET THE POLICE KNOW OF YOUR PLANS!!!!! If she agrees to let you come and get your stuff, she could call them while you're there, and have you dragged out of the house in handcuffs.
> 
> I can't stress this enough: HAVE A COP GO WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yeah. I would not try to make a surprise visit at all. Too much could go wrong. The locks are changed dude. No doubt. You could get shot for breaking and entering. ( This would be true in Texas anyway ). 

But go the high road. have a couple of friends, a rented truck and a cop.


----------



## golfergirl

For the THIRD time, Try reverse directory search OMW on spokeo.com. If you have no interest just say no thanks and I'll shut up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> Yes I have. He knows the gist of the story as of a few days ago. Talked to him initially on Saturday and told him why I had to do what I did. He called yesterday asking how I was doing. I told him I was doing fine, getting things taken care of. He asked if I'd talked to her yet and I said no, except for sending over food for the dogs. He asked if I'd heard from her, and I said yes, by text...and mentioned that it's been all business though. He said he was surprised that she hadn't said Sorry. I said, "Um, yeah, me too."


I wouldn't get too upset about this. Friends are always put in a difficult position with an impending breakup, just as this exact scenario shows.

As you said above, the guy's wife has been your STBXW's friend since the 5th grade. That's going to be tough to trump. Obviously they can't invite you both; that could lead to a disaster BBQ for everyone attending.

I suggest to just pocket the knowledge and let it roll off of you. You'll have plenty of time for these friends and new friends in very short order.

Remember, these are her friends too. Just because they've invited her to this doesn't mean the guy can't still be a good buddy and worthy of sharing a couple beers with.

Like you mentioned, he called you to check on you. That's pretty nice. You didn't cry on his shoulder, and I'm sure you sounded like you are holding up well.

Your wife, on the other hand, I'm sure is really getting off on the attention and doting of friends, so she's playing the "poor me" card to the hilt. That shouldn't surprise you, so don't let it get you down. As the days, then weeks, then months go by you'll see that many of these friends really are good friends, and some others really have only been her friends. But, that's for down the road. Don't judge based on forced, ackward decisions on their part (i.e. we're having a BBQ, do we invite Mr Sham or Mrs Sham...wife wins not because the wife thinks what Mrs. Sham did is right, but because she HAS to be there for her longtime girlfriend).

Don't sweat it, keep your chin up...you're doing great.


----------



## Entropy3000

golfergirl said:


> In my divorce, my ex gravitated to mutual friends. I kept cool and mouth shut. After a few months of him bad-mouthing me and me taking high road, they tired of him and he was out. She's spilling the drama, they'll get story and be done with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This sounds rational. I bet it works out for him as well. I understand his feeling though. I think he should think in terms of who are his loyal friends right now. Maybe a very select group of one or two. maybe someone he can trust that could be a lobger term friend.

I agree this is early on and down the road this is will get straightened out. Besides he will be a much cooler single guy and in demand socially.


----------



## joe kidd

8yrs got banned again? Well anyway as many have said volleyball party day would be a great time to get your things.


----------



## piqued

F-102 said:


> Sham, PLEASE LET THE POLICE KNOW OF YOUR PLANS!!!!! If she agrees to let you come and get your stuff, she could call them while you're there, and have you dragged out of the house in handcuffs.
> 
> I can't stress this enough: HAVE A COP GO WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That might be unnecessary if he's bringing witnesses with him...especially witnesses who consider both of them friends.


----------



## Halien

Entropy3000 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Yeah. I would not try to make a surprise visit at all. Too much could go wrong. The locks are changed dude. No doubt. You could get shot for breaking and entering. ( This would be true in Texas anyway ).
> 
> But go the high road. have a couple of friends, a rented truck and a cop.


Yes, if the lawyer approves of the visit to pick up your stuff while she is there, wear those really nice clothes you've been putting off buying for a while, smile a lot, make lots of mistakes when you call her by her name, and be happy to be rid of the mess. Let her know you are in a hurry to meet a friend. She is the one who lost out, Sham.


----------



## piqued

joe kidd said:


> 8yrs got banned again? Well anyway as many have said volleyball party day would be a great time to get your things.


What in the world is he doing to keep getting banned?


----------



## crossbar

ehh....after mon afternoon, she might not be friends with them anyways. She goes to the party, comes back home and Sham's stuff is gone. She might think that those friends set her up to get her out of the house so Sham could move. Making it look like they really only had Sham's back all along. I know...I know....blast me because it sounds petty...but then again, so is she.


----------



## Dadof3

crossbar said:


> ehh....after mon afternoon, she might not be friends with them anyways. She goes to the party, comes back home and Sham's stuff is gone. She might think that those friends set her up to get her out of the house so Sham could move. Making it look like they really only had Sham's back all along. I know...I know....blast me because it sounds petty...but then again, so is she.


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## F-102

piqued said:


> That might be unnecessary if he's bringing witnesses with him...especially witnesses who consider both of them friends.


The police will ARREST first and let a DA or judge sort out the witnesses.


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Just got approval on the apt. Can't move in until at least Tues, so I have to store my stuff for a day or two if I go with the "volleyball party" moveout plan (Mon afternoon).
> 
> Sorry to complain about this friends thing...just don't think she'll ever "get hers" if she's really going to get away with complete absolution from friends. And she does not deserve that (at least not so easily and quickly), longtime friends or no.


It seems unbelievable, and this part definitely sucks, but it's the reality of a breakup. It is very difficult to maintain any mutual friends. It just makes everyone awkward. Heck, my ex tried to steal my family. Why?  She has her own.


----------



## Shamwow

golfergirl said:


> For the THIRD time, Try reverse directory search OMW on spokeo.com. If you have no interest just say no thanks and I'll shut up!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, but I have her address and her number, that's good enough for me right now. Checked out the site though, looks pretty all-encompassing!


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> ehh....after mon afternoon, she might not be friends with them anyways. She goes to the party, comes back home and Sham's stuff is gone. She might think that those friends set her up to get her out of the house so Sham could move. Making it look like they really only had Sham's back all along. I know...I know....blast me because it sounds petty...but then again, so is she.


This is a brilliant concept. You sir are an evil genius using your powers for good.


----------



## Chaparral

8yearscheating said:


> Sham,
> I have been watching while banned. It’s been like watching a plane crash. All of the talking heads on CNN (posters here) and a lynch mob attitude made it painful to watch. It got to the point where I was only reading your posts. You discovered your wife’s indiscretions the same way I did – in fact I suggested you check the deleted messages on the IPhone the way I did. I know precisely the feelings you have gone through reading them and I very sorry you had to go through that. It hurt to know I was the one that pointed you that way.
> On the subject of where you are at now, I agree with Tex list with one caveat. Keep the lease on the apt. either month to month or 6 months max. so your trapped if things change. I think you need time to work through the initial shock. All of the talking heads and mind readers here are feeding you worst case only and none of them can speak for the real truth – not even you because there has been no contact or discussions. I think you need time to think and write out questions you need answers to for either closure or to decide which way you really want to go in the future. Your wife did some terrible things – so did mine. But don’t fall into the same trap she has of painting her and everything in the past with a black brush. Ask the questions. Cheaters lie for a couple of reasons. They can’t face what they have done and to speak the truth 100% hurts for them and hurts to know they are causing you additional pain. They say what they think YOU want to hear or just enough to get out of the discussion. This is especially true when you interrogate, are angry or question everything they say which is a natural tendency when you are having the pain and betrayal your feeling. This is why I agree you need time away from her to get over the shock and for her to really think about the future and what she wants. In order for her to actually feel empathy, remorse and think about the future – there has to be at least a glimmer of hope you two can either end this completely honestly or hope that there is a very SLIM chance you might work through it. I know you say you have made up your mind and in your present state I can understand why. Heard all the talking heads pumping how cold she is in her texts. What else would you expect when at the moment all she expects is D? There is not faint flicker of hope so the shields are up 1000% and she is in self protect say nothing legal mode. What I’m trying to tell you is the mind readers can’t and neither can you.
> No push for R. But for your own sake, getting to the truth would bring closure if nothing else. It amy also change your mind about D. Keep the paperwork going to the point of signing. She needs the shock therapy. But crack the door open a tiny amount and see what happens. Text her “If you are ready to talk and be COMLETELY honest as well as transparent, let me know by text.” If you do decied to meet, remember you cannot deal with this in one all out marathon session. Short discussions stopped as soon as yours or her emotions flare.
> 
> One question I had – is your backup drive still at the house? Do you think she may backed up since getting back? Can you get at the backup files on her computer? The last trip info and the info since would tell you a lot.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Welcome back. Can't understand conclusions posters have been coming up with based on so little contact from wife. I've pointed this out several times.

Sure am glad your back! Voice of sanityfinally. Don't get banned again.


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Welcome back. Can't understand conclusions posters have been coming up with based on so little contact from wife. I've pointed this out several times.
> 
> Sure am glad your back! Voice of sanityfinally. Don't get banned again.


I have always appreciated 8years point of view. Nice to have a differing opinion, and honestly I did listen to his advice quite heavily before confronting my W for the second to last time last Tues (the last time had to be done though). Mainly because I was stil hoping she would own up to something and show me a piece of the girl I knew for so long. But since he didn't, the R chatter in my head ceased pretty quick. Perfect world? Sure, I'd consider it. Clearly this is not that...

And if he really got banned again I would say I don't know why. Perhaps for engaging other posters more than the thread topic? Who knows...


----------



## alphaomega

Shamwow said:


> I know...but she's gonna take my friends too?? Jeezus, you were all right when you said this would get much harder before it gets easier. Hurts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, Sham,

Husbands of friends of wife go out the window as per being friends with you after D. Even if your a friend. This is the case the majority of time, from my experience with divorced friends, and of course personal experience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

chapparal said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Welcome back. Can't understand conclusions posters have been coming up with based on so little contact from wife. I've pointed this out several times.
> 
> Sure am glad your back! Voice of sanityfinally. Don't get banned again.


Too late - banned again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Well, if you go monday, I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but make sure you change out that VAR. You threw a monkey wrench into her plans, BIG TIME! So, she's probably changing those plans and you might have her new game plan recorded.


----------



## the guy

Sham,
Forgive me for thinking about the small things.
That chicks is most likely going to travel a do her thing so please look in to taking care of her dog on occasion? Your hotdog is going to miss the OD 
I know right now this sh~t don't mean nothin, but I hope it helps you look at everything here, even the dogs (as in plural).

"Ain't nothin but a thing" just thinkin out side the box bro. You have enough sh~t on your plate, so I just wanted to throw some more crap @ you so you don't forget the ones that are really loyal. You know what I mean.

F~ck her, after all this BS she doesn't need her dog, that dog needs you, both dogs need you, think about it, and talk to the lawyer, it may need to be writen up in the D. Days ago I thought it to be cruel to take her dog, WELL I CHANGED MY MIND!

Again bro, so many others have so much to ooffer, I'm just "the guy" with a cheating wife looking at a couple of dogs that need attention.

take care


----------



## golfergirl

dgtal said:


> I don't get it. Why the ban? :scratchhead:


I don't know I clicked on his username and his status is banned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

the guy said:


> "Ain't nothin but a thing" just thinkin out side the box bro. You have enough sh~t on your plate, so I just wanted to throw some more crap @ you so you don't forget the ones that are really loyal. You know what I mean.
> 
> F~ck her, after all this BS she doesn't need her dog, that dog needs you, both dogs need you, think about it, and talk to the lawyer, it may need to be writen up in the D. Days ago I thought it to be cruel to take her dog, WELL I CHANGED MY MIND!
> 
> Again bro, so many others have so much to ooffer, I'm just "the guy" with a cheating wife looking at a couple of dogs that need attention.


OK, seriously, "the guy". You're my hero and you make such a great point. Sham is my hero too the way he referred to his little guy as "poor little fella". Anyone that cares for dogs the way you two do shows how much substance and goodness you have. Women (the good ones) won't be able to resist you. ;-) 

ETA: squeeeeeeee! That's the sound the girls will make when you melt their hearts. 

Remember this is a rollercoaster - lots of ups and downs and you need to remember to try to have a little fun each day too. Next time a girl hits on you, hit back - even if it's just harmless flirting for one minute out of the day. It'll lift you up and help your next down not to be so hellacious.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> I have always appreciated 8years point of view. Nice to have a differing opinion, and honestly I did listen to his advice quite heavily before confronting my W for the second to last time last Tues (the last time had to be done though). Mainly because I was stil hoping she would own up to something and show me a piece of the girl I knew for so long. But since he didn't, the R chatter in my head ceased pretty quick. Perfect world? Sure, I'd consider it. Clearly this is not that...
> 
> And if he really got banned again I would say I don't know why. Perhaps for engaging other posters more than the thread topic? Who knows...


" Mainly because I was stil hoping she would own up to something and show me a piece of the girl I knew for so long. "


For the various reasons 8yrs. stated, wife is still in denial. It takes time before they can admit to what they have done. Many people can't apologize for the smallest things. But in this situation I think your wife now believes you would not listen to anything she says even if she has come to the point of accepting what she has actually done. If you have read these threads,and I know you have, you know that the wayward spouses almost always follow the same script including trying to lie out of it in the begining. That is what puzzles me about the posts on this thread. People are making illogical conclusions. She has barely said anything yet a simple request for dog food turns into four pages of speculation. " I'm sorry you read that "(mis quote) turns into heartless col b!tch etc.

I would think it was a somewhat shy attempt at starting a dialogue in which she was soundly rebuffed. How would you react if she had handed you similar texts. You or I would be mortified. I know she said ugly things but she was in a fog. Why does everyone seem to think she's the only wayward on TMA that hasn't been in a fog. As long as you have known her has this been the way she acts? From what I have seen this has gone according to the typical wayward scirpt except the two parties have absolutely no idea what the other is thinking.

As for those texts do you belive OM was/is telling her the truth. Was she telling him the truth or just going along with some of it . Mostly just bull sh!ting each other. Sounds like pretty rocky affair compared to whats going on around here. You know what he was doing. And looks like it might have been no more than a one night stand in Vegas. 

Shes been on the road to long by herself and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I remember you also said she partied while on the road. For this alone you both have to own a big part of this along with D!rty Ba$tard. If you don't wait too long to start a dialogue you might just find how devestatingly lonely she has been on the road. I know I ,for one, could not handle it. I hated it and quit.

Don't let people herd you into something you may regret the rest of your life. A lot of people here have reconciled and claim to have better marriages than ever. So far, as affairs go this one seems pretty weak. If I were you I would have a short talk with her and ask if she would consider marriage counseling. This will come so far out of left field I think it will give you some answers your looking for even if you really don't want R. Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending either D or R but you have been avoiding her to you detriment.


----------



## Chaparral

golfergirl said:


> Too late - banned again!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doh!


----------



## Mike11

chapparal said:


> " Mainly because I was stil hoping she would own up to something and show me a piece of the girl I knew for so long. "
> 
> 
> For the various reasons 8yrs. stated, wife is still in denial. It takes time before they can admit to what they have done. Many people can't apologize for the smallest things. But in this situation I think your wife now believes you would not listen to anything she says even if she has come to the point of accepting what she has actually done. If you have read these threads,and I know you have, you know that the wayward spouses almost always follow the same script including trying to lie out of it in the begining. That is what puzzles me about the posts on this thread. People are making illogical conclusions. She has barely said anything yet a simple request for dog food turns into four pages of speculation. " I'm sorry you read that "(mis quote) turns into heartless col b!tch etc.
> 
> I would think it was a somewhat shy attempt at starting a dialogue in which she was soundly rebuffed. How would you react if she had handed you similar texts. You or I would be mortified. I know she said ugly things but she was in a fog. Why does everyone seem to think she's the only wayward on TMA that hasn't been in a fog. As long as you have known her has this been the way she acts? From what I have seen this has gone according to the typical wayward scirpt except the two parties have absolutely no idea what the other is thinking.
> 
> As for those texts do you belive OM was/is telling her the truth. Was she telling him the truth or just going along with some of it . Mostly just bull sh!ting each other. Sounds like pretty rocky affair compared to whats going on around here. You know what he was doing. And looks like it might have been no more than a one night stand in Vegas.
> 
> Shes been on the road to long by herself and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I remember you also said she partied while on the road. For this alone you both have to own a big part of this along with D!rty Ba$tard. If you don't wait too long to start a dialogue you might just find how devestatingly lonely she has been on the road. I know I ,for one, could not handle it. I hated it and quit.
> 
> Don't let people herd you into something you may regret the rest of your life. A lot of people here have reconciled and claim to have better marriages than ever. So far, as affairs go this one seems pretty weak. If I were you I would have a short talk with her and ask if she would consider marriage counseling. This will come so far out of left field I think it will give you some answers your looking for even if you really don't want R. Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending either D or R but you have been avoiding her to you detriment.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## sixteen miles

Shamwow you are doing great; you are a tough guy and a real trooper. Chapparal makes a number of very valid points. 

In the end though, only you know what is in your heart.

I said in it once and I will repeat it again; only you know how much forgiveness is left in your "forgiveness tank"

Search your heart....you are a smart young man, follow your instincts, so far they have served you very well!


----------



## MrQuatto

chapparal said:


> " Mainly because I was stil hoping she would own up to something and show me a piece of the girl I knew for so long. "
> 
> 
> For the various reasons 8yrs. stated, wife is still in denial. It takes time before they can admit to what they have done. Many people can't apologize for the smallest things. But in this situation I think your wife now believes you would not listen to anything she says even if she has come to the point of accepting what she has actually done. If you have read these threads,and I know you have, you know that the wayward spouses almost always follow the same script including trying to lie out of it in the begining. That is what puzzles me about the posts on this thread. People are making illogical conclusions. She has barely said anything yet a simple request for dog food turns into four pages of speculation. " I'm sorry you read that "(mis quote) turns into heartless col b!tch etc.
> 
> I would think it was a somewhat shy attempt at starting a dialogue in which she was soundly rebuffed. How would you react if she had handed you similar texts. You or I would be mortified. I know she said ugly things but she was in a fog. Why does everyone seem to think she's the only wayward on TMA that hasn't been in a fog. As long as you have known her has this been the way she acts? From what I have seen this has gone according to the typical wayward scirpt except the two parties have absolutely no idea what the other is thinking.
> 
> As for those texts do you belive OM was/is telling her the truth. Was she telling him the truth or just going along with some of it . Mostly just bull sh!ting each other. Sounds like pretty rocky affair compared to whats going on around here. You know what he was doing. And looks like it might have been no more than a one night stand in Vegas.
> 
> Shes been on the road to long by herself and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I remember you also said she partied while on the road. For this alone you both have to own a big part of this along with D!rty Ba$tard. If you don't wait too long to start a dialogue you might just find how devestatingly lonely she has been on the road. I know I ,for one, could not handle it. I hated it and quit.
> 
> Don't let people herd you into something you may regret the rest of your life. A lot of people here have reconciled and claim to have better marriages than ever. So far, as affairs go this one seems pretty weak. If I were you I would have a short talk with her and ask if she would consider marriage counseling. This will come so far out of left field I think it will give you some answers your looking for even if you really don't want R. Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending either D or R but you have been avoiding her to you detriment.


Chap, I truly do respect you and also respect 8 yrs for your viewpoints but I do feel you are both mistaken on this particular front. 

In most every single other thread of discovery and exposure I have read, the WW always runs the gambit of denial, anger and runs underground while "Appearing" to be working on the marriage in the short term. In this instance, the WW is way off the normal script in every way. There have been previous instances on other threads of discussion of leaving the marriage, but that is mostly exclusive to the OM/OW and a few "select" close friends of the DS. In this case, she has been discussing leaving with a larger number of people, for months.

We always want to think there is hope and give the benefit of the doubt but in this case, my instinct is that she checked out long ago and was simply waiting for the best possible time for HER to go.

My Opinion only... sorry to high jack. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...


Q~


----------



## piqued

chapparal;414011 It takes time before they can admit to what they have done.
[B said:


> Translation: Sham, YOU need to give HER time. Forget that she blew up your life, and hurt you in unimaginable ways.[/B]
> 
> in this situation I think your wife now believes you would not listen to anything she says even if she has come to the point of accepting what she has actually done.
> 
> *Question: Why would she NOW believe that he would not listen to her when he offered, repeatedly, to hear her out without interruption? The reason he left was because she turned that offer down. But now, through magic, she isn't coming clean because she doesn't think Sham would listen?*
> 
> People are making* illogical *conclusions. She has barely said anything yet a simple request for dog food turns into four pages of speculation. " I'm sorry you read that "(mis quote) turns into heartless col b!tch etc. I would think it was a somewhat shy attempt at starting a dialogue in which she was soundly rebuffed.
> 
> *Translation: It should be clear to Sham that her request for money, car, and dog food was her subtle way open the door to a much larger conversation. This is the only way she knows how to approach someone. Disregard the explicit, repeated, and scathing things she said to her lover and friends regarding Sham, sex, and her thoughts about her marriage because she obviously just doesn't know how to communicate. And, her saying that "Sham shouldn't have read those" is really her way of saying "My bad". For someone who can be as forthright as she's been, I think if she wanted to say "I'm sorry" she could muster the courage to say or type those two words.*
> 
> How would you react if she had handed you similar texts?
> 
> *Response: How unfair to even ask that of Sham. HE wasn't the one sexting with another woman. HE wasn't the one fibbing constantly. HE wasn't the one plotting to leave his wife and meeting with a financial advisor. HE wasn't the one getting off over Skype with a lover. HE wasn't the one plotting a secret vacation to f*&k this lover. HE wasn't the one that spent a small fortune on an affair. And, HE wasn't the one to have the audacity to ask his wife for $$ while he was in Vegas screwing a lover. By the way, if she has the balls to ask Sham for money during her secret love trip, she sure as heck should have the balls to say "I'm sorry" or "Can we talk?" if that's what she wanted.*
> 
> I know she said ugly things but she was in a fog.
> 
> *Question: Was she in a fog when she was telling friends that she was through with Sham? Was she in a fog when she was meeting with a financial advisor to plot out how to stash money and come out of the marriage in the best financial position possible? Was she in a fog when she told someone "dude, you don't know me, I won't feel bad about the end of my marriage (paraphrase)?*
> 
> And looks like it might have been no more than a one night stand in Vegas.
> 
> *Response: She did something on her 10 week trip. And this "affair" involved sexting, camming, constantly over months. The same goes for the distance and lies to Sham. I just can't put that in the same category as a "one night stand in Vegas". As if she was just drunk and made one stupid decision.*
> 
> Shes been on the road to long by herself and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I remember you also said she partied while on the road. For this alone you both have to own a big part of this along with D!rty Ba$tard.
> 
> *Response: Sham has admitted to being less than perfect, and I'm sure there are reasons why she strayed. But, and this is a big butt, there is ONLY ONE PERSON WHO OWNS THIS, and that is her. It was her behavior, her choices, her affair. It is so unfair to tell Sham he owns part of her bad behavior. She's an adult!*
> 
> If you don't wait too long to start a dialogue you might just find how devestatingly lonely she has been on the road.
> 
> *Editorial Note: The poor thing.*
> 
> If I were you I would have a short talk with her and ask if she would consider marriage counseling.
> 
> *Response: He already did; she's not interested.*
> 
> I am not recommending either D or R but *you have been avoiding her to you detriment*.


I respectfully disagree. She crushed him and has shown a pattern of manipulating him for a long time. He'll talk to her eventually, but now should be for him to adjust and get strong, not to come to the aid of her.


----------



## MrQuatto

piqued said:


> I respectfully disagree. She crushed him and has shown a pattern of manipulating him for a long time. He'll talk to her eventually, but now should be for him to adjust and get strong, not to come to the aid of her.


:iagree:

That paints a pretty clear and truthful picture, I think. 

Q~


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## Shaggy

Sham,

Staying dark has served you well, but know that you want to appear strong and not scared of her. Have you officially filed for divorce or just gave her papers? 

Expect her to have changed the locks. It's such a basic move in this game.

Getting away for the weekend is a great idea!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

MrQuatto said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That paints a pretty clear and truthful picture, I think.
> 
> Q~


And to add when he first stated he wanted a divorce instead of crumpling how she loves him and doesn't want to be without him she whined he'll probably stick her with the house as it's in her name and she's old so she'll probably never have sex again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CH

Trying for R when she's talked to close friends about detaching herself from him emotionally and from the marriage, yes she could have just been making a joke but when added with the other evidence,

Talked to a financial advisor at their bank about their accounts, yes she could have just been asking questions that would help their accounts be better managed.

When 1st confronted by Sham, 1st words were, where to I sign. And she kept on repeating that over and over, even when Sham was trying to work on R. He's talking about working past it, she's asking him where she signs the paperwork for D.

After he left, she has not reached out once. So it's his job to go back on hands and knees to beg her for R since he just left when she had her chance to tell the truth. Maybe she is afraid to call for fear of what he might say.

When you keep adding all the little things up, it just doesn't look like at this point R is even possible.

Can count the number of texts to Sham on 1 hand, while texting the OM is off the chart until they decide to cool it down to make it look like there is no smoking gun.

R would be great and yes my wife and I were able to R, but I did the begging, I did the apologizing, I was the one to approach her, I was the one to try and make amends, I was the one who had to do the hard work, I was the one that had to take the blame, I was the one who still has to work hard to this day to prove it was a horrible mistake on my part. Yes we had problems that eventually led to the A, but I stepped out of the marriage not her. AND I HAD TO TO THE HARD WORK to make the marriage work again. She had already taken me back to give me another chance and I HAD TO PROVE TO HER that she didn't make a mistake, not the other way around.

I'm sorry but asking Sham to run back to her when she's shown nothing towards sham at all during this just doesn't work and weakens his position. He did it once and it didn't work. Some would say go back for a 2nd time and it might work, but others will say once is enough, you tried and she kicked you in the nuts, y go back for more.


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## Halien

Sham,

Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to overthink a text message, a comment from a friend, and occasional things that come up about your wife. Endless analysis of insufficient data yields whatever you want it to. You simply will not know her intentions until you ask her. Sure, she may talk crazytalk, but she might say just what it takes for you to move on. The dread that comes with waiting may even overwhelm the resolve to be impervious to her tactics if you listen to endless theories of plotting based on a couple of texts. She becomes larger than life, cold and calculating, a creature of legend, instead of the woman who just doesn't quite have her head screwed on straight for the last few months or so. 

I think she's probably got the hint that you're dead serious about possibly leaving. The ball is in her court. Maybe the analysis of the panties gives a reason to wait longer before talking to her, but it is impossible to know if she is clinging to some sort of hope for reconciliation, yet expecting you to divorce, without actually talking to her.


----------



## Shamwow

Chapparal...threw me for a loop. Started to feel like I miss her and just want to talk to her. And of course I do. Bigtime. I want her to own up and give me some idea of what happened and what went on in her head (and what's going on in her head now). This seems sudden to everyone, but I have been shut out for months, emotionally and physically. She has just been playing nice in between jobs to get by until she can leave again and be free. Texts show this: "running errands is just a way to get out of the house, Sham is ALWAYS THERE."

Did I ever mention she went to hotel for two nights to "clear her head and unplug" when she was home about 2 weeks after the 10 week trip? She naturally assured me it had nothing to do with me...I said, well it seems odd that after complaining about the road for the last 10 weeks the way you want to relax is by staying in a hotel without me...but if you need to unplug I get it, I can respect that if it's what you need. I was a dumba**. she wanted to unplug from ME. Deepdown I knew it, but I was still in the blindsided state of her coming back changed so much. I figured putting my foot down and saying that's ridiculous would end ip resulting in a few nights of uncomfortable tv watching with no resolution. And I think I was right.

The texts from this time are painful to say the least. She apparently got horrifically drunk by herself and barely got back to her room. While texting several friends (mostly OM) about wanting to get back on the road. I mean, come on man, other texts show she was conflicted: "don't want to do anything that will do more damage to myself, until I can end this". Then following up with some thing like "so will you hold my glasses while my face is in your lap?" (to OM) Even if she never did these things, after being confronted several times of what I know, she still challenged that I could possibly know of anything. That's why I finally had to give her proof. And walked.

Believe me, I would LOVE to have an actual heart to heart with her, but it's not something I am prepared to initiate. As long as she denies any wrongdoing, sorry, but **** her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

F-102 said:


> Sham, PLEASE LET THE POLICE KNOW OF YOUR PLANS!!!!! If she agrees to let you come and get your stuff, she could call them while you're there, and have you dragged out of the house in handcuffs.
> 
> I can't stress this enough: HAVE A COP GO WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



How could it be illegal for Sham to get his own things out of his own house after he and his wife have agreed that he will get them out?

And Sham has already contacted the police. They aren't interested in escorting him to his own house to protect him from his wife, who isn't a danger to herself or others.


----------



## Shamwow

And guys, there are THOUSANDS of texts, I've only let a few of them fly here. Lots are totally innocent chat, but tons of them are so revealing that I couldn't take it anymore. I won't be asking for a talk unless she shows some, a little, ANY concern that what she did, even if it didn't end in physical sex...was WRONG to me and our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity

Here's another point of view:

All this talk of respect is ego-based. Being cheated on is humiliating. Having an unremorseful spouse who doesn't immediately cave and beg for forgiveness after discover is humiliating. It hurts. But you know what, LIFE is humiliating - filled with rejection and failure and pain. That's just how it is. 

Self respect doesn't come from what other do, or how they treat you, it comes from acting within your own values. That's why it's called SELF respect.

Yes, she is being very difficult and unloving. That's what the FOG is - extreme selfish, hurtful behaviour. The reality is that most affairs, on discovery, don't result in immediate contrition on the part of the wayward spouse. Most have a long, difficult period of limbo, where everyone is trying to figure out what is true and what they believe. This is especially true with women, because they usually are guided by the emotions and her emotions are telling her that you make her feel bad, and the OM makes her feel good.

In my case, it took 3 years of separation, reconciliation, fights, misery, pain and battling with myself and her, to get to a point where it is good. For me, it was worth it because I love her, she loves me, we have kids together, and have a long history together. 

But that's just me.

You need to decide for yourself what honours your values. Divorce is totally justified. But you need to understand that reconciliation isn't simply forgiveness, it's the battle with the fog to get to the point of forgiveness. And it's f*cking hard.


----------



## Shamwow

Halien said:


> Sham,
> 
> Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to overthink a text message, a comment from a friend, and occasional things that come up about your wife. Endless analysis of insufficient data yields whatever you want it to. You simply will not know her intentions until you ask her. Sure, she may talk crazytalk, but she might say just what it takes for you to move on. The dread that comes with waiting may even overwhelm the resolve to be impervious to her tactics if you listen to endless theories of plotting based on a couple of texts. She becomes larger than life, cold and calculating, a creature of legend, instead of the woman who just doesn't quite have her head screwed on straight for the last few months or so.
> 
> I think she's probably got the hint that you're dead serious about possibly leaving. The ball is in her court. Maybe the analysis of the panties gives a reason to wait longer before talking to her, but it is impossible to know if she is clinging to some sort of hope for reconciliation, yet expecting you to divorce, without actually talking to her.


See my last post. I could list every text, but it would be 100 pages long and wouldn't do anyone any good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Damn. I know man it's a huge blow to the soul, ego and all you want is to get some kind of answer from her as to why. It's amazing what we can make ourselves blind to. As with you it was all there for me to see but I refused to, no way was she doing this to me. I hope you do get some kind of reasonable explanation from her, not that it makes it hurt any less. It just sucks that , like me, you get to hear secondhand about what a hardship it is to live with you.


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## PHTlump

Sham,

I think you're right on refusing to initiate any conversations. By appearing upbeat and detached to your STBX, you will (may?) simultaneously hurt her by showing her you're not destroyed at losing the only perfect woman on Earth, intrigue her by appearing strong and confident when she believes you're weak and powerless, and help yourself to move past her into your new, better, life.

You know that the panties will come back positive for semen. People don't sext for weeks or months, plan a trip to Vegas to consummate the relationship, get an early start on the Vegas trip in another city, and then back out of anything physical. If she had that kind of remorse, she would be showing it now instead of being only concerned with day-to-day errands, use of the car, and how to best spin her betrayal to her parents.

Stay strong. Once you're back from your weekend and in your new apartment, get back out on he scene. Make some new friends in some new places. Do things you've been meaning to do.

Good luck.


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## Catherine602

There is another aspect of the A, R axis to consider, why. The why is in a way separate of the what and how of the affair because knowing why is important to Shams future relationships. I don't think that problems that develop in a marriage are always 50:50, especially when the problems involve character flaws or past trauma's. Some people are very good at hiding problems and they play upon the the healthy partners goodness. Nevertheless, there is always something to learn that helps the loyal partner in their next relationship.

It may be as simple as trusting their instincts, having boundaries and reasonable deal breakers, and what kind of person they need to be to attract the type of partner they want. LS can take responsibility for what part they played in the problem even small ones and this may engender feelings of control over future relationships and less of bitterness and generalizations of bad feelings towards all members of the opposite sex. 

Sham - I think when the time is right, that you should talk to your wife. She may not be forthcoming or she may still be in the get out quick mode but she will still tell you why if you listen carefully and ask the right questions. When you get what you need, thank her and send her an invitation to your wedding and announcement of the birth of your children as peace offerings. ;0}

I would not be of a mind to hurt her, why bother she will have enough pain in her future. Trying to hurt her will only get you tangled up in the drama of her train wreck. Revenge is not always what it wrapped up to be, walking away clean and better is in itself a victory and that victory is all your's and has nothing to do with getting stuck in a cycle of attack and counter attack. If it should come to divorce, walking away like she was easy to leave will teach her something, she is really not "all that" and she is a fool for throwing away a gem for a quicksilver. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

PHTlump said:


> First, useable was imprecise in his language. He corrected it in a later post. He was referring to a specific divorced woman in Sham's STBX. Second, just because women have a specific trait does not imply that men must share that trait. Men and women have considerable differences.


Nooooo really!!! Pray tell, what do these differences have to do with attributing negative traits to women but positive traits to men? I think it is obvious that my point was to emphasize this factor not to support an amalgamation of the genders. Although we, men and woman that is, are really more alike than we are lead to believe. That in a way is positive and should make it easier to accept what differences we have and to understand them better. Might even feel a sense of camaraderie that is missing in the "we are so vastly different" belief system.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Now kids, behave yourselves or uncle mori will come over to whoop your hineys. :redcard:


----------



## Cypress

And Aunt Cypress will tell your mothers


----------



## girlfromipanema

Catherine602 said:


> There is another aspect of the A, R axis to consider, why. The why is in a way separate of the what and how of the affair because knowing why is important to Shams future relationships. I don't think that problems that develop in a marriage are always 50:50, especially when the problems involve character flaws or past trauma's. Some people are very good at hiding problems and they play upon the the healthy partners goodness. Nevertheless, there is always something to learn that helps the loyal partner in their next relationship.
> 
> It may be as simple as trusting their instincts, having boundaries and reasonable deal breakers, and what kind of person they need to be to attract the type of partner they want. LS can take responsibility for what part they played in the problem even small ones and this may engender feelings of control over future relationships and less of bitterness and generalizations of bad feelings towards all members of the opposite sex.
> 
> Sham - I think when the time is right, that you should talk to your wife. She may not be forthcoming or she may still be in the get out quick mode but she will still tell you why if you listen carefully and ask the right questions. When you get what you need, thank her and send her an invitation to your wedding and announcement of the birth of your children as peace offerings. ;0}
> 
> I would not be of a mind to hurt her, why bother she will have enough pain in her future. Trying to hurt her will only get you tangled up in the drama of her train wreck. Revenge is not always what it wrapped up to be, walking away clean and better is in itself a victory and that victory is all your's and has nothing to do with getting stuck in a cycle of attack and counter attack. If it should come to divorce, walking away like she was easy to leave will teach her something, she is really not "all that" and she is a fool for throwing away a gem for a quicksilver.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to quote entire post, but this is really good stuff. I know it'll help me and should help any other readers.

The key for many is to ensure the timing is right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

Sham if your her best friend knew her since 5th grade then she is her friend mainly and your friend only by virtue of you being her friend husband. The same goes for the husband. Be careful about what you tell friends, don't assume their loyalties are with you. I would not be hurt by this because it is not about you. They practically grew up together, accepting that her behavior was wrong would be asking a lot of a long term good friend. Good friends don't abandon even when their friend does wrong. That is the nature of friendship.. 

There is another lessen for you in relationship 101. Develop your own set of good loyal male friends that are primarily bonded to you, I would stay out of the let's thake our wives out or couples activities. Do things with your guy friends that are separate from couple stuff. You see now how important loyal friends are, so don't forget and drop your male friends when you get into a relationship. 

My husband has his brothers and male friends from childhood and from his activities with old cars. I know them they come over to the house to watch a race or football but I don't socialize with their wives. If our marriage went south they are not going to be my friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

Oooo Mori will you tie us up first?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## useable

Sham, if you are alone no one with your side and her friends care much to her. do not take this just let it be. you need to focus only for yourself. stay out of her and her friends forever. they will not take your side on your this problem.

even if the world not on your side, never care because you only have to focus on yourself.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> And guys, there are THOUSANDS of texts, I've only let a few of them fly here. Lots are totally innocent chat, but tons of them are so revealing that I couldn't take it anymore. I won't be asking for a talk unless she shows some, a little, ANY concern that what she did, even if it didn't end in physical sex...was WRONG to me and our marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was disrespectful and unfaithful. Just the Vegas thing. Without the texts. Add the texting and her general behavior and it is over the top.

Dude, you are a good guy. She is still trying to dominate you and outlast you. Find someone who will apprecaite you. 

The woman you knew is not the woman who is behaving this way. She has changed. She has likely been a dual personality for some time. She has problems that stem back to her childhood. This is not your problem to fix. It is very hard. You did your best. You are going to have to grieve. You should. It is best for both of you to go ahead with the divorce. 

Minimize the drama. Minimize the damage. Do not seek out conflict or reconsiling right now. You need to get yourself to a better place. You are on your way. She did not truly love the person you were. Her loss. I say "were" because this will change you. You must decide that that change is for the better. Not a bitter person. A person who will grow from this adversity and be better for it. You will be all the wiser the next time you choose a mate. So do nothing to hurt her or enable her. Be ambivalent to her and move on.

The best thing for the both of you is to let her go. There is too much hurt now. She has shown no remorse. You are not being vindictive by leaving. You are stopping the hurt of a relationship that she destroyed. She was not happy. Ultimately while we want to GIVE happiness to our spouses, we can only help them along that path by doing our part. But they have to be able to find happiness within themselves. She has some daemons to slay within her. She must do that herself. Give her the opportunity by not enabling the bad behavior she has shown. Continue down the path of re-making your life. You are still young. Find someone who deserves you. But enjoy life first. Be at peace with yourself for you have done your best. Let her go.


----------



## F-102

PHTlump said:


> How could it be illegal for Sham to get his own things out of his own house after he and his wife have agreed that he will get them out?
> 
> And Sham has already contacted the police. They aren't interested in escorting him to his own house to protect him from his wife, who isn't a danger to herself or others.


Because, PHT, she did not agree to let him come back to get his stuff, even if he did tell her. The only messages he got were about the skype and the dog food. She could tell the police that, and they will be escorting him out of the house.

My uncle is a D attorney, and my family are friends with many cops. SOP for law enforcement is to defuse a potential situation of domestic violence, and if that means dragging the man (never the woman) out in handcuffs, then that is what they'll do. And Sham's STBXW sounds like she will just be waiting for the golden opportunity to get even. And my said uncle has just wrapped up a case like this-the H said he was coming to get his stuff, she said "Okay", and he brought a friend. Well, he and friend are in the house while the W goes upstairs so she "won't be in the way". While they are packing up his stuff, a squad car pulls up and the H lets him in. Cop says "there is a call about a domestic disturbance". The H explains that they are separated and he's here to get his stuff, and he no sooner gets the words out of his mouth when the W comes down the stairs with a brand-new black eye, screaming that she told him to stay away but he came anyway and punched her. The cop, without saying a word, slams the H into the wall and cuffs him and throws him into the back of the squad car, all in plain view of the couple's crying children.

Yes, she "dropped" the charges, yes, it was proven later that she fabricated it (slammed her face into the doorway when she saw the cop pull up-and I have warned Sham about STBXW pulling this trick), yes, she did get 3 mos. and probation for falsifying a report.

But the H lost his job and couldn't get another good one for 5 years, because that's how long it took "the system" to get the arrest record cleared.

And that's why I told Sham to look up dirty divorce tricks.

And I don't recall Sham telling us that the police said he was on his own. All he has to do is tell the police that she is unstable and he wants to make sure she doesn't try anything physical.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> Sham if your her best friend knew her since 5th grade then she is her friend mainly and your friend only by virtue of you being her friend husband. The same goes for the husband. Be careful about what you tell friends, don't assume their loyalties are with you. I would not be hurt by this because it is not about you. They practically grew up together, accepting that her behavior was wrong would be asking a lot of a long term good friend. Good friends don't abandon even when their friend does wrong. That is the nature of friendship..
> 
> *There is another lessen for you in relationship 101. Develop your own set of good loyal male friends that are primarily bonded to you, I would stay out of the let's thake our wives out or couples activities.* Do things with your guy friends that are separate from couple stuff. You see now how important loyal friends are, so don't forget and drop your male friends when you get into a relationship.
> 
> My husband has his brothers and male friends from childhood and from his activities with old cars. I know them they come over to the house to watch a race or football but I don't socialize with their wives. If our marriage went south they are not going to be my friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You become wiser by the day dear lady. This is great stuff.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Chapparal...threw me for a loop. Started to feel like I miss her and just want to talk to her. And of course I do. Bigtime. I want her to own up and give me some idea of what happened and what went on in her head (and what's going on in her head now). This seems sudden to everyone, but I have been shut out for months, emotionally and physically. She has just been playing nice in between jobs to get by until she can leave again and be free. Texts show this: "running errands is just a way to get out of the house, Sham is ALWAYS THERE."
> 
> Did I ever mention she went to hotel for two nights to "clear her head and unplug" when she was home about 2 weeks after the 10 week trip? She naturally assured me it had nothing to do with me...I said, well it seems odd that after complaining about the road for the last 10 weeks the way you want to relax is by staying in a hotel without me...but if you need to unplug I get it, I can respect that if it's what you need. I was a dumba**. she wanted to unplug from ME. Deepdown I knew it, but I was still in the blindsided state of her coming back changed so much. I figured putting my foot down and saying that's ridiculous would end ip resulting in a few nights of uncomfortable tv watching with no resolution. And I think I was right.
> 
> The texts from this time are painful to say the least. She apparently got horrifically drunk by herself and barely got back to her room. While texting several friends (mostly OM) about wanting to get back on the road. I mean, come on man, other texts show she was conflicted: "don't want to do anything that will do more damage to myself, until I can end this". Then following up with some thing like "so will you hold my glasses while my face is in your lap?" (to OM) Even if she never did these things, after being confronted several times of what I know, she still challenged that I could possibly know of anything. That's why I finally had to give her proof. And walked.
> 
> Believe me, I would LOVE to have an actual heart to heart with her, but it's not something I am prepared to initiate. As long as she denies any wrongdoing, sorry, but **** her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, no one can blame you for feeling this way. She has been checked out of the relationship for literally months. My heart ached for you in re-telling the story of you getting re-buffed when trying to initiate with her saying "Sorry, just not that attracted to you." That's why the board perceives her as cold-hearted. We joined the story when she already didn't care what happened in your relationship and wouldn't even put in the effort to fein an excuse for rejection - just plain out told it like she saw it from that vantage point. 

For whatever reason, her heart has turned cold to you. Your gut has known about this possibility for months. It appears her texts finally convinced you that the relationship was lost and could not be recovered. 

Even so, suggesting the idea of marriage counseling is not the most outlandish idea ever. The goal for you is not to save this relationship, but to save your NEXT relationship. I'm sure you two had some great times together. If there was no love, there would be no pain now. 

As hard as it would be to hear, knowledge of how and why you lost your wife's love would help you adjust your behaviors in your next relationship. Something must of happened. You were too nice, maybe. Or not focused on her, maybe. I dunno. Something had to trigger it. 

Perhaps the board can chime in on whether this idea is even viable. And, if so, suggest some wording for a text that maintains your strength while opening a door slightly to talking about everything in a mediated setting. 

"I'm planning to file divorce papers Tuesday. Very sad that it has come to this. From what I can tell, your heart left me months ago, and I don't know why. Would be willing to try marriage counseling if you harbor any regrets. If not, I will move forward to a better life."

Again, I don't know if I'm sowing more confusion for you Sham. If you don't talk to her in the next few months, this will hang over you. It will be painful to talk, but it would provide closure. I think everyone can agree the R is over. How well you conduct the post-mortem on this R will play a big role in shaping the success of future relationships. 

Again, please treat this as board brainstorming. Other posters may have wildly different outlooks on this suggestion than do I.


----------



## Catherine602

I'm a quick study E. I have become a student of men and relationships. I am in my first year but I am studying hard. I am happier now than I have ever been in my life and much of my dysfunctional thinking has subsided. I have room in my brain to think instead of react on a primal level pulling from past bad experiences all of the time. 

My husband insistence upon taking time to be with his friends and to keep up with hobbies bothered me at one time. Now I understand how wise he is and how maintaining these F and hobbies makes him a more stable and happy man. The time is not at all excessive and he support my independent time too. 


I hope other people can learn to do the same, if I can, anyone can with effort and a lot of help from very kind strangers. 

END OF JACK
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

Lots of advice, but only Sham can decide what is best for him at this point in discovery. He knows more about the situation than all of us combined and he will do what feels right for his recovery.

At any time Sham's wife can try to reach out to him. But right now she either wants a D or is too scared to reach out and is resigned to D. Perhaps it will take Sham's wife several years, some failed relationships, and a new look on life to realize what she lost in Sham. However, it seems like Sham needs a lot more then weak attempts at contact by his wife to allow himself to be vulnerable by suggesting counseling or R.

Follow your gut Sham. When you look back at this moment in time a year from now, will anything you do or not do leave you with regrets? You don't need to answer, but just keep it in mind moving forward. Act in ways you can live with and heal.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

If you do decide to try marriage counseling and can convince Mrs. Sham to go, you might just get something out of it. You could consider the marriage counseling as exit counseling. It might be a way to get some closure. Don't go in there to fix things, just to get some answers. Maybe you both could find an agreeable way to call a truce and understand the 'whys' a little better.

But if she starts trying to manipulate you, lie, gaslight or cause more pain, then just stand up and leave. And, she can pay the bill.

Cypress


----------



## PHTlump

F-102 said:


> Because, PHT, she did not agree to let him come back to get his stuff, even if he did tell her. The only messages he got were about the skype and the dog food. She could tell the police that, and they will be escorting him out of the house.


She may not have agreed. However, a husband does not need his wife's permission to enter his own house. I can just hear the call to police from Sham's wife now. "Please come quickly, my husband is entering his own house in a non-threatening manner!" I'm sure they'll all race to respond.



F-102 said:


> My uncle is a D attorney, and my family are friends with many cops. SOP for law enforcement is to defuse a potential situation of domestic violence, and if that means dragging the man (never the woman) out in handcuffs, then that is what they'll do. And Sham's STBXW sounds like she will just be waiting for the golden opportunity to get even. And my said uncle has just wrapped up a case like this-the H said he was coming to get his stuff, she said "Okay", and he brought a friend. Well, he and friend are in the house while the W goes upstairs so she "won't be in the way". While they are packing up his stuff, a squad car pulls up and the H lets him in. Cop says "there is a call about a domestic disturbance". The H explains that they are separated and he's here to get his stuff, and he no sooner gets the words out of his mouth when the W comes down the stairs with a brand-new black eye, screaming that she told him to stay away but he came anyway and punched her. The cop, without saying a word, slams the H into the wall and cuffs him and throws him into the back of the squad car, all in plain view of the couple's crying children.


Now you're talking about apples and oranges. Yes, police will arrest a man suspected of domestic violence. However, that has nothing to do with a man's legal right to occupy his own home. And It matters not whether he and his wife are separated.

Yes, Sham's wife could attempt to frame him for domestic violence. She could go out tonight, kill a vagrant, bury him in the yard, and attempt to frame Sham for that crime. But that has nothing to do with Sham's rights inside his own home.



F-102 said:


> And that's why I told Sham to look up dirty divorce tricks.


Sure. I recommend Sham bring a witness and/or record his interactions with his STBX. But honestly, how many divorces involve wives falsely accusing their husbands of violent felonies?



F-102 said:


> And I don't recall Sham telling us that the police said he was on his own. All he has to do is tell the police that she is unstable and he wants to make sure she doesn't try anything physical.


Sham called the police asking whether they would intervene if his STBX attempted to take his car. The police said it's her car too, so they won't get involved. And sure, Sham could also falsely accuse his wife of violent behavior to the police and that might get them involved.

I was assuming that nobody should lie to the police. I guess I should have made that clear in my original post. So here goes. Lying to the police is bad. You shouldn't lie to the police. Falsely accusing someone of committing a serious crime or having a mental illness is also bad. You shouldn't do that either.

I recommend that, unless and until his STBX falsely accuses him of war crimes, Sham should not cower in fear of her. He should not be afraid to take care of his belongings. Even if that means coming within 100 yards of his STBX without a fleet of bodyguards.


----------



## PHTlump

Catherine602 said:


> Nooooo really!!! Pray tell, what do these differences have to do with attributing negative traits to women but positive traits to men?


Nothing at all. I don't know why you're hung up on it.


Catherine602 said:


> I think it is obvious that my point was to emphasize this factor not to support an amalgamation of the genders. Although we, men and woman that is, are really more alike than we are lead to believe. That in a way is positive and should make it easier to accept what differences we have and to understand them better. Might even feel a sense of camaraderie that is missing in the "we are so vastly different" belief system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought your point was to argue that, if women possessed an undesirable trait, then men must also posses it. I disagree with that belief. For the record, I also disagree with the belief that men and women must share desirable traits. Or that men and women must have equal numbers of desirable and undesirable traits. I just don't keep score like that. I am perfectly secure in believing that men and women are complimentary, not congruent.


----------



## Shamwow

Per tonight's thread conversation - does this seem like someone who is in a confused fog or gives a crap about R?


[Email interchange between W and OM this evening]:

OM: Might want to keep deleting everything until your hacker situation is over.

W: Way to put it in an email. Text seems safer.

OM: Well, I'm certain he's logging your cell phone. Just click and delete everything.

W: And how can someone log your cell? That's impossible.

OM: Or simply log into your carriers online account and view everything. 


Seriously can't imagine they would go to these lengths to "pretend" to be ignorant (if so, then bravo to them, truly masterful). Funny thing is that they're both smart and really haven't googled this at this point?

Tired of checking emails and stuff (and for my own health will really enjoy dropping it entirely), but this is rather enlightening. How hard is it to google "iphone text log" and find out you can get deleted texts from synced BACKUP FILES on your computer? (or backup drive connected to computer)

Either way, the current situation is just a waiting game for them. What do they care what I see now? Like what I've showed her isn't damning enough? What on earth could they possibly be hiding at this point? That they're still talking? Whoopity-doo. Would've bet the mortgage on that. And they REALLY are still using her same email??? She doesn't care what I know, but he does.

What does our relationship have to do with it? Nothing. I am a "hacker situation". I did the right thing by leaving. Tomorrow will make a week. Suddenly easy to stay dark again. R advocates, feel free to chime in.

As much as tonight's R intent on the thread is sound, sorry, won't be buying it.

I know the last few days have been a lot of mood ups and downs on my end. Just have never...well...divorced before. Thanks for your continued support. Lab results come back tomorrow. I'm guessing inconclusive (by the odds), but wtf, could be a surprise that will make life decisions going forward that much easier for me to commit to fully...


----------



## useable

sham ... i hope you fix to divorce. and if so, bravo to you.
ignore her forever in your life. one day you will laugh seeing her in miserable condition also her OM. 

sorry if this is rude.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Any luck getting hold of the OM's wife , are you going to expose him further . The only reason why he is able to talk confidently to your wife is he thinks he is safe, a wide exposure on his side will change this. You are at war with him , take him down then deal with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

"Email interchange between W and OM this evening]:

OM: Might want to keep deleting everything until your hacker situation is over.

W: Way to put it in an email. Text seems safer.

OM: Well, I'm certain he's logging your cell phone. Just click and delete everything.

W: And how can someone log your cell? That's impossible.

OM: Or simply log into your carriers online account and view everything"



Play another card, give him something else to talk about, contact his wife. Let him know how it feels when cheaters break up a family.


----------



## sam83

I don't know why people here try that much to convince Sham to R with this woman she isn't into this at all sham plz contact the OMW with any way possible even if u can afford it travel and meet her personally and give your attorney the green light to destroy your wife 


do it for ur own sanity


----------



## crossbar

sam83 said:


> I don't know why people here try that much to convince Sham to R with this woman she isn't into this at all sham plz contact the OMW with any way possible even if u can afford it travel and meet her personally and give your attorney the green light to destroy your wife
> 
> 
> do it for ur own sanity


I agree, that woman need to know what kind of D-bag she's married to. Sorry, but that e-mail exchange just popped me off like a Roman Candle....grrrr.... However, stay vigilant they're planning something. They do have a game plan or else they wouldn't be so concerned that "Stewie" is hacking in. She would be like "who cares! We're done. Mission acomplished."

No remorse, uncaring for others, totally disconnected to the reality of how many people they've hurt....total selfish behavior..

I really am sorry you're going through this.


----------



## Fido

Shamwow said:


> Believe me, I would LOVE to have an actual heart to heart with her, but it's not something I am prepared to initiate. *As long as she denies any wrongdoing*, sorry, but **** her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey Sham, my ex - to this day - doesn't come clean about her affair and what she did. Not even to her family. She still lives in some kind of fog/denial/dream world where she thinks she can feed anybody the stuff they want to hear, so she can get out of it. It's been almost 2 years now.

So don't expect her to ever come clean with you, just move on for yourself. Make your own closure and file her behavior away. Remember the good times and don't loose trust in yourself and don't over judge potential partners in your future because of this experience.

I know you are way away from moving on, but don't count on proper closure, this is life, not a popcorn movie.

Good Luck and I still think you are doing really well with this !!!

:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


----------



## Fido

seeking sanity said:


> Self respect doesn't come from what other do, or how they treat you, it comes from acting within your own values. That's why it's called SELF respect.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## Shaggy

Sham one thing about the recent email. Why would a WW who's husband handed her papers and left, and a OM who supposedly has move out from his wife be worried about exposure?

I bet he hasn't moved out. If he had moved out, and they want to be together , then why hasn't he flown to join hetpr? He hasn't moved out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> See my last post. I could list every text, but it would be 100 pages long and wouldn't do anyone any good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, I know I wasn't clear, but I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. I'm not at all suggesting reconciliation.

You've alluded to wanting to be a stronger, more controlled man in the future, one who will never allow such a situation to develop again. I'm only saying that the confrontation is inevitable. It may get easier over time, or it could get harder to face her because her legend grows. As an alpha guy, I'm only suggesting that you will find a true inner pride when you finally confront her on your terms, and show her that you will not be destroyed by her manipulations, but getting this is only meaningful if your goal is Sham, not taking down the woman through perfect manipulation of the situation. Proposing reconciliation gets a guy banned, so I'm not going there. For me, reconciliation wouldn't be an option. 

Most of us prefer not to reveal who we really are. Suffice it to say that my secondary career involves writing mildly successful fiction. I'm humbled by the machinations that are proposed over the most innocent facts here. They are certainly superior to my fiction. Most importantly, endless speculation accomplishes nothing but losing sight of your own goal. Sure, people have been through infidelity, but nobody but you has been through it with your wife. A few people are proposing that some sort of grand scheme for dealing with her is possible, but is it? If your primary goal is to force her to an awareness of the pain she has caused, then she is your goal, not necessarily Sham if it keeps you from being who you want to be.

I'm only suggesting that your goal should be Sham. What does Sham need to get through this and feel like the man he wants to be? Don't let yourself lose sight of this. At some point, she needs to become almost irrelevant to you, if your intention is to divorce. There's no grand lesson to be learned until you are watching her through your rear view mirror. The same goes for any woman who would abuse your good intentions. For some, our answer would be just to speak our mind with her and begin the journey of healing. She may be in the fog, and not hear, but you've put it behind you. Part of the manning up journey always includes asking yourself what you want out of every situation, then the determination to get it, even if you admit that your answer is to wait a little while.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Per tonight's thread conversation - does this seem like someone who is in a confused fog or gives a crap about R?
> 
> 
> [Email interchange between W and OM this evening]:
> 
> OM: Might want to keep deleting everything until your hacker situation is over.
> 
> W: Way to put it in an email. Text seems safer.
> 
> OM: Well, I'm certain he's logging your cell phone. Just click and delete everything.
> 
> W: And how can someone log your cell? That's impossible.
> 
> OM: Or simply log into your carriers online account and view everything.
> 
> 
> Seriously can't imagine they would go to these lengths to "pretend" to be ignorant (if so, then bravo to them, truly masterful). Funny thing is that they're both smart and really haven't googled this at this point?
> 
> Tired of checking emails and stuff (and for my own health will really enjoy dropping it entirely), but this is rather enlightening. How hard is it to google "iphone text log" and find out you can get deleted texts from synced BACKUP FILES on your computer? (or backup drive connected to computer)
> 
> Either way, the current situation is just a waiting game for them. What do they care what I see now? Like what I've showed her isn't damning enough? What on earth could they possibly be hiding at this point? That they're still talking? Whoopity-doo. Would've bet the mortgage on that. And they REALLY are still using her same email??? She doesn't care what I know, but he does.
> 
> What does our relationship have to do with it? Nothing. I am a "hacker situation". I did the right thing by leaving. Tomorrow will make a week. Suddenly easy to stay dark again. R advocates, feel free to chime in.
> 
> As much as tonight's R intent on the thread is sound, sorry, won't be buying it.
> 
> I know the last few days have been a lot of mood ups and downs on my end. Just have never...well...divorced before. Thanks for your continued support. Lab results come back tomorrow. I'm guessing inconclusive (by the odds), but wtf, could be a surprise that will make life decisions going forward that much easier for me to commit to fully...


Good points Sham. I totally agree with your assessment here.


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Sham one thing about the recent email. Why would a WW who's husband handed her papers and left, and a OM who supposedly has move out from his wife be worried about exposure?
> 
> I bet he hasn't moved out. If he had moved out, and they want to be together , then why hasn't he flown to join hetpr? He hasn't moved out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dunno...he sent her his new address though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

I'd recommend that you obtain a copy of Dr Robert Glover's book titled 'No More Mr Nice Guy' and read it a couple of times. I believe you will find it a very enlightening read which can help you break free from your self destructive 'Nice Guy' pattern.


----------



## F-102

In response to PHT, he's missing the point: Yes, Sham can go into his house, but in my state (don't know which one Sham's in), all a woman has to do is call the police and she can have him removed, even if the house is in his name. Police SOP is to remove the "threat", for whatever reason. It is up to the man: go quietly with your tail tucked between your legs, or be arrested for disorderly conduct and leave perp-walk style. Now, I don't want to divert this thread and hijack it, so I won't debate this issue about legalities anymore.


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## Eli-Zor

Get hold of his wife the dialog can then move on and focus on what support you need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Just pretty much ready to get my stuff and be in the new place. And that can't happen for a few more days. Don't want to deal with it, but guess it's just another hurdle to get over, so I'll do it and move on as much as I can. Funny, she has gone dark since Tues now, so why should that bother me? Kinda does though. Suppose it makes sense, I'm not responding to her so eventually she'd get the point. But don't worry, i'll get that out of my head soon enough. Rough couple days i guess. Tired of feeling like games are being played, just want to be straight with her and vice versa. If the latter isn't possible I guess I just have to accept it. 

Doesn't help that my good friend in town is off the wagon, adding stress to my life as now I don't think i can count on his help to move out...time to open up to some other friends and have some better support. I'll help him as much as I can but I need to focus on myself until I'm settled. Kinda like they say to put the oxygen mask on yourself before assisting others on a plane. I need STRONG friends right now...which is why I'm looking forward to getting out of town today to go visit one of those strong friends from way back. Little bro time will do me some good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorldsApart

Hunting is always a good excuse for getting away from the womenfolk


----------



## PHTlump

F-102 said:


> In response to PHT, he's missing the point: Yes, Sham can go into his house, but in my state (don't know which one Sham's in), all a woman has to do is call the police and she can have him removed, even if the house is in his name.


You're missing the point. The police don't just remove men from their own houses because their wives don't want them there. The wives have to tell the police that their husbands are committing a crime, or are threatening to commit a crime in order for the police to intervene. Sham's STBX has been shown to be cold toward Sham. But nothing suggests that she harbors such hatred toward Sham that she's willing to commit a crime in order to have Sham falsely arrested and imprisoned. Because it would be a crime to lie to the police.



F-102 said:


> Police SOP is to remove the "threat", for whatever reason. It is up to the man: go quietly with your tail tucked between your legs, or be arrested for disorderly conduct and leave perp-walk style.


Again, sure. Sham's wife could call the police and tell them that he's dealing drugs, or molesting kids, or he's an Al Qaeda sleeper and they'll take him away. But it would be a lie. Sham would beat the rap and his wife would be guilty of a crime.

You're trying to make it sound like divorced couples can involve the police as referees in petty disputes. They can't. You're also trying to make it sound like wives can simply tell the police that they are tired of living with their husbands, so they would like the police to forcibly remove him from his own house. They can't.



F-102 said:


> Now, I don't want to divert this thread and hijack it, so I won't debate this issue about legalities anymore.


Good idea.


----------



## Shamwow

Halien said:


> Most of us prefer not to reveal who we really are. Suffice it to say that my secondary career involves writing mildly successful fiction. I'm humbled by the machinations that are proposed over the most innocent facts here. They are certainly superior to my fiction. Most importantly, endless speculation accomplishes nothing but losing sight of your own goal. Sure, people have been through infidelity, but nobody but you has been through it with your wife. A few people are proposing that some sort of grand scheme for dealing with her is possible, but is it? *If your primary goal is to force her to an awareness of the pain she has caused, then she is your goal, not necessarily Sham if it keeps you from being who you want to be*.


Wow, great point. Kinda hit the nail on that one, as far as how I've felt the last couple days. This is why outside perspectives are good..


----------



## morituri

Too much of anything is bad including this forum. Avoid the internet and simply enjoy your time away with your friend. This forum will be here when you return - though you may have 50 to 100 more pages to your thread. I attracts people like flies to sh*t.


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## tacoma

Sham, you really need to contact the OMW.
It doesn't matter if he moved out you don't know why or fOr how long.
If they are seperTe and filing D then your info can only help her screw him.

I see only upside to the exposure, no downside.

Don't mess with sneaking you stuff out during this party.
Just call her and tell her when you need to pick your stuff up. Preferably when your place is ready.

It's time for that confrontation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

tacoma said:


> Sham, you really need to contact the OMW.
> It doesn't matter if he moved out you don't know why or fOr how long.
> If they are seperTe and filing D then your info can only help her screw him.
> 
> I see only upside to the exposure, no downside.
> 
> Don't mess with sneaking you stuff out during this party.
> Just call her and tell her when you need to pick your stuff up. Preferably when your place is ready.
> 
> It's time for that confrontation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As far as the move out I guess I'm feeling the same way. Its starting to feel like if I sneak in and out that means I'm afraid of the confrontation. Sure, I'm not thrilled about the idea, but don't think I'm scared. Cover of darkness was good for getting out last week and staying dark has been helpful, but now it's more of a game, at least it feels that way to me lately.

I will try to call OMW again today. Will leave a brief message if she doesn't answer a few times. "this is Sham, you don't know me but I have something important to discuss with you. Please call me when you have a chance." Prob will wait to hear lab results and then let er rip. Kinda wish I had all my stuff out and the confrontation done before doing this though, will only add fuel to the fire. Okay with that, but why not wait until I'm fully removed from the situation? Hmm, rethinking now. I mean if he's truly moved out it's not like he's in a position of power anyway. My W however, she still has my house, lots of my stuff, and the dogs as leverage if she's really pissed. Should I wait?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThighMaster

PHTlump said:


> You're missing the point. The police don't just remove men from their own houses because their wives don't want them there. The wives have to tell the police that their husbands are committing a crime, or are threatening to commit a crime in order for the police to intervene. Sham's STBX has been shown to be cold toward Sham. But nothing suggests that she harbors such hatred toward Sham that she's willing to commit a crime in order to have Sham falsely arrested and imprisoned. Because it would be a crime to lie to the police.
> 
> .


Yes they do, and they do it regularly. Google false DV and primary aggressor.

I know three people who have gone through the humiliation of being arrested while trying to get their stuff by a vindictive STBXW, one of them my BIL.

All three of their stories are almost identical, except my BIL who had children. In addition to the commonalities he was slapped with a restraining order and did not see his kids for six months.

They all went back solo to get their stuff. WW sprung a false domestic 911 call on them. Result...2-5 years of legalaties to clear names, $10,000-$50,000 in legal fees. NONE of the WW's were charged with false accusations. Lawyers and cops after the fact said he should have called the police ahead and they would have been happy to be an observer. All three were in different states.

Sham, please, save yourself the pain of what my friends went through and see if the cops will observe during your move out. Failing that try to get a friend or coworker that is not attached to your WW to observe and stay by your side the whole time.


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## Cypress

Sham,

I would not wait. Mrs. Sham knows you have contacted a lot of people already. She and OM are expecting you to contact OMW. WW will be asking you not to do this during the confrontation. So you may as well call OMW now, and have it over with.

Cypress


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## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> I would not wait. Mrs. Sham knows you have contacted a lot of people already. She and OM are expecting you to contact OMW anyways. WW will be asking you if you are going to contact OMW, during the confrontation. So you may as well call OMW now, and have it over with.
> 
> Cypress


Suppose I could tell her to feel free to do with the information as she sees fit, bit maybe ask that she give me a brief heads up before dropping the bomb on OM, so I can at least know when to expect my phone to light up like a Christmas tree...

If you were OMW, would that sound reasonable? Depends on how she takes it I guess...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

ThighMaster said:


> Sham, please, save yourself the pain of what my friends went through and see if the cops will observe during your move out. Failing that try to get a friend or coworker that is not attached to your WW to observe and stay by your side the whole time.


That would be a very wise move on Sham's part.


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## Cypress

Sham,

That is a good idea, but you may not get her full cooperation. I've read a lot of threads. Sometimes the OMW cooperates, sometimes not. Don't over analyze the possibilities; we all handle the news of betrayal in different ways. Let her know what OM has done, ask for her cooperation. But don't have any expectations. She may be having a pity party at this point. 

Be kind to her. Let her know you care about her situation. And tell her that you have a lot of evidence, if she needs it.

Cypress


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## Eli-Zor

Stop waffling and expose to the OW , get it over with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

morituri said:


> Too much of anything is bad including this forum. Avoid the internet and simply enjoy your time away with your friend. This forum will be here when you return - though you may have 50 to 100 more pages to your thread. I attracts people like flies to sh*t.


True true...I've grown used to leaning on the forum for venting and other perspectives. Will prob continue to do so for a while, but I'll do my best to unplug a bit and enjoy my weekend. Thanks...


----------



## Stunner

What the hell...

Am I going to be the only one to say it?

Sham...

You left your wife for good reason...now its time to foucs on yourself.

You're sitting holed up in a hotel bunker like smeagle tracking your soon to be ex wife's messages after the fact while your wife has clearly moved on. This is ridiculous....get out....do stuff...shake things up for yourself

You need to put yourself first now...do what you want to do....make new friends...get new girls...have new experiences. Ultimately...do what makes you happy because happiness is attracted to happiness..

drop this obsession with screwing your wife over its consuming you... you really want to **** her mind? Right now she thinks you are an undesireable "stewie".... watch the look on her face when she sees "stewie" having fun...moving on...happy....new girlfriends.

it'll tear her up


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## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> True true...I've grown used to leaning on the forum for venting and other perspectives. Will prob continue to do so for a while, but I'll do my best to unplug a bit and enjoy my weekend. Thanks...


Oh thank god, 
I can enjoy my weekend now too knowing I won't be checking every hour...


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## F-102

Good luck, Sham.


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## NotLikeYou

Shamwow said:


> True true...I've grown used to leaning on the forum for venting and other perspectives. Will prob continue to do so for a while, but I'll do my best to unplug a bit and enjoy my weekend. Thanks...


I can see that lots of readers here need you to contact the OMW for them (the readers) to have closure. Given that you've made numerous attempts to contact her with no success, it might be that she isn't interested in participating! 

Getting out of town for the weekend will be great for you. Contacting the police before you go get your stuff is a good idea, just to give them a heads-up. Taking a friend and the friend's vehicle when you go is a good idea, too. Nobody has mentioned it, but having that second VAR in your pocket when you go will provide a record of what happens, if anything weird occurs, and will be absolutely invaluable if things get all court-and-lawsuit-like. And once again, keep in mind that she may have changed the locks. 

Focus on yourself, and what you need to do. You're going to make it through all this and be 1000% better after its over!


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## tacoma

I wouldn't wait any longer man.

This really should be already done.
Just leave her a VM .
"Hello Mrs.OMW, I would like to speak with you concerning an inappropriate relationship between my wife & your husband."

Then have all your ducks in a row for her reply and move on with your life.
You have to mention the scope ( husband-affair) of the discussion in the VM to insure her interest in replying.
I personally don't return calls to people I don't know, she may be like me since she's obviously screening your calls as unknown.

This will get all the cards on the table for the confrontation with Mrs. Shamwow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh0t

He's waited WAY too long to expose to OMW. Sham has done everything in slow motion, so they've had plenty of time to do damage control. I doubt he will affect the OM much at this point in time. 

I also doubt he will get ANY kind of revenge satisfaction from his STBX. She doesn't care about him. She won't be upset if he has fun in a new life, new girlfriend, etc. She doesn't care. 

She WOULD care if OM had a new girlfriend, but she won't care if sham does. She will probably wonder what the new girl is thinking. Don't underestimate how cold some people can be, when you are hoping they are warm.

As a man, you have to walk the lonely road. Your wife can be unfaithful, friends can be conflicted. Just take care of your dog. 

I'm also extremely worried that Sham has very few loyal friends. That's a big red flag on his behalf, and like his wife said in the text "Sham is always there" meaning home. Why was sham never out with his own friends? He was too into the marriage, and she was too out of it.

There is no reason to contact her. Go through your lawyer for anything sticky. That's what they are for. She is not going to give you any satisfaction in any way. There is NO POINT in showing her 'strength' or some imitation of it. She will not be impressed, turned on, curious, etc by it. She won't care. And then you'll feel worse.

Sham, your best bet is to just start living again buddy. You are going to get NO satisfaction from any arena with your STBX. You won't hurt her, she won't apologize, she will woo all the friends, etc. You are going to lose every time you butt heads with her. Your peace lies in just moving on.


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## Shaggy

There is a thought Sham, hire one of those seduction agencies to hit on the OM and get proof of him cheating on your WW.

Then have the evidence of what a slime ball he is delivered to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

sh0t said:


> He's waited WAY too long to expose to OMW. Sham has done everything in slow motion, so they've had plenty of time to do damage control. I doubt he will affect the OM much at this point in time.
> 
> I also doubt he will get ANY kind of revenge satisfaction from his STBX. She doesn't care about him. She won't be upset if he has fun in a new life, new girlfriend, etc. She doesn't care.
> 
> She WOULD care if OM had a new girlfriend, but she won't care if sham does. She will probably wonder what the new girl is thinking. Don't underestimate how cold some people can be, when you are hoping they are warm.
> 
> As a man, you have to walk the lonely road. Your wife can be unfaithful, friends can be conflicted. Just take care of your dog.
> 
> I'm also extremely worried that Sham has very few loyal friends. That's a big red flag on his behalf, and like his wife said in the text "Sham is always there" meaning home. Why was sham never out with his own friends? He was too into the marriage, and she was too out of it.
> 
> There is no reason to contact her. Go through your lawyer for anything sticky. That's what they are for. She is not going to give you any satisfaction in any way. There is NO POINT in showing her 'strength' or some imitation of it. She will not be impressed, turned on, curious, etc by it. She won't care. And then you'll feel worse.
> 
> Sham, your best bet is to just start living again buddy. You are going to get NO satisfaction from any arena with your STBX. You won't hurt her, she won't apologize, she will woo all the friends, etc. You are going to lose every time you butt heads with her. Your peace lies in just moving on.


I have plenty of friends, just haven't opened up to many of them yet. Kind of a weird week.

Sham is always there...I work at home, gimme a break. She said that while shopping/texting during the day six weeks ago. Esp the last Few months Ive made a point to go out w the guys without her as much as possible. (she has always hated it when I go out with the guys and not her, btw..."no wives allowed huh?")

Who cares about damage control on OM side? Whatever stories they wanna tell, proof is proof.

I'm okay, I'm not Smeagle, I've just related the minutiae here because I wanted help interpreting in my confused week here. Do I now have to go dark here to prove to you guys that I'm okay?  like I said, getting tired of playing games. I left my wife, I have mood swings, I post them here. Kinda like a journal. That's all.

Clearly my "foot-dragging" is bumming you out. Kinda done a LOT this week that I never thought I would do. Good enough?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cypress

Sham,

Move at your own pace. None of these internet memes have any skin in the game. You are doing a better job than any of the posters ever did. We are all learning the right way to handle things, from you. 

Cypress


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## crossbar

Frankly, I'm extremely impressed on how well you've held it together over the last couple of months! Big time props!


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## Fido

Stunner said:


> What the hell...
> 
> Am I going to be the only one to say it?
> 
> Sham...
> 
> You left your wife for good reason...now its time to foucs on yourself.
> 
> You're sitting holed up in a hotel bunker like smeagle tracking your soon to be ex wife's messages after the fact while your wife has clearly moved on. This is ridiculous....get out....do stuff...shake things up for yourself
> 
> You need to put yourself first now...do what you want to do....make new friends...get new girls...have new experiences. Ultimately...do what makes you happy because happiness is attracted to happiness..
> 
> *drop this obsession with screwing your wife over its consuming you...* you really want to **** her mind? Right now she thinks you are an undesireable "stewie".... watch the look on her face when she sees "stewie" having fun...moving on...happy....new girlfriends.
> 
> it'll tear her up


:iagree: absolutely. It drove my ex crazy that I had girls around me all the time when she came to pick up things. Made 2 points, I wasn't alone, so no false accusations and showed her other girls have interest in me too. (I realize that I sorta contradict myself her...)

Take care of yourself. Forget your ex, forget to inform the OMW. Meet friends, work out, organize your new place (as soon as you get it) move on. Made all the difference for me. 3 months in and I was a new person. I felt much better and free compared to the last months with her.

Go and take care of yourself and put away all the info you have from your ex. (Obviously don't remove it, just store it out of sight, out of mind for now).

Seriously, hitting on some girls will help your ego and show you that there is other things out there than revenge.

Good Luck man!!!

:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


----------



## Voiceofreason

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> Move at your own pace. None of these internet memes have any skin in the game. You are doing a better job than any of the posters ever did. We are all learning the right way to handle things, from you.
> 
> Cypress


:iagree:


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> I'm okay, I'm not Smeagle, I've just related the minutiae here because I wanted help interpreting in my confused week here. Do I now have to go dark here to prove to you guys that I'm okay?  like I said, getting tired of playing games.
> 
> Clearly my "foot-dragging" is bumming you out. Kinda done a LOT this week that I never thought I would do. Good enough?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FWIW, I certainly don't view you as Smeagle holed up in your hotel room. You have accomplished, seen and experienced so much during the past week+. I looked at your register date - you haven't even been part of the community for a month and you've accomplished more than people I've seen experiencing what you are in years. Trust me. You are doing fine.

I think certain people hold you in such high regard, referring to you as their "hero", but you shouldn't expect yourself to go full steam ahead each minute of every day.

You need to focus on your needs, wants and time frame. 

Also, you were at home a lot because you work out of your home and your were a GOOD HUSBAND. Many of us women facing infidelity would love our spouse to be half as dedicated, caring, understanding as you. I don't think you suffer from "Nice Guy" syndrome. I think you chose the wrong wife for you (not your mistake - she was right at the time, but morphed into someone you no longer recognize). I haven't gone into any details about my situation but many people IRL think I'm the 'perfect wife' because I'm loving, supportive, caring and I give, give, give. People on a forum felt I was a little too giving and a little too nice. If people want to view that as a flaw, so be it, but when you get married, you make your spouse the center of your world (in addition to maintaining your own interests, blah, blah, blah) - at least that is my vision of marriage. 

Try to have some fun this weekend. I'm still fantasizing about ways to bust your wife's affair. Have had some fun ideas... It takes my mind off my situation a little!


----------



## Stunner

Shamwow said:


> I'm okay, I'm not Smeagle, I've just related the minutiae here because I wanted help interpreting in my confused week here. Do I now have to go dark here to prove to you guys that I'm okay?  like I said, getting tired of playing games. I left my wife, I have mood swings, I post them here. Kinda like a journal. That's all.
> 
> Clearly my "foot-dragging" is bumming you out. Kinda done a LOT this week that I never thought I would do. Good enough?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You dont have to get defensive dude....thats just what it seemed like and it didnt look healthy...if thats not the case and you are getting out and taking care of you and your needs... then fantastic


----------



## HurtinginTN

Sham,

I've been following your thread. Hang in there. It is a difficult road, but you seem to be plodding along just fine.


----------



## Shamwow

Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cypress

(((Sham)))


----------



## Eli-Zor

Why am I not surprised
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sucky. That's a difficult blow. Hang in there.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just confirmation at this point, go out and have some fun this weekend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voiceofreason

Well you now have closure on that...but still...sorry man...I know it hurts


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I confess, I was not expecting that. Yeah, yeah I know, obvious. How incredibly careless of her. Sorry for my surprise. I had little doubt that she had sex with one or more people.

I thoiught you had plenty of reason before but this is just added validation.

Take care Sham.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sh*t. Gimme the OMW's number. 

Sorry, Sham. At least you know you can never believe anything that ever comes out of her month or sent via text (e.g. "Not that it matters but nothing ever happened" - or whatever it was she said).


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, flush my previous suggestion of last-ditch marriage counseling. I think you have all the answers you need. I'm sure you're not surprised to hear it, but I sense a part of you still didn't want to believe it. I'm so sorry to hear about this.

If you do have that drinking get-together the night before the volleyball party of your turncoat friends, the news of these lab results may be a nice tidbit to weave into the conversation with the fellas. It's the kind of information that will spread through the gossip chain like wildfire and will certainly get back to her. Also paints of very graphic picture of who is at fault.

She knows you know about the texts. The news of the lab results will get back to her. Right now, she does not know you know about this. Not that it matters anymore, I guess, but it plants the seed in her head that you know everything and she may has underestimated your abilities.


----------



## Slapchop

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, Sham. I doubt you're surprised but I'm sure it still stings. And while you have her (legally) dead to rights, that means little in the face of your heartache.

This sucks. It will continue to suck. You didn't deserve to go through any of this but it will eventually fade. Be strong.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. Have a great weekend folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My Sympathies my friend sorry to hear that


----------



## WhereAmI

I understand this could be invaluable info (at fault state) for OMW, but she can wait if you need to grieve. PLEASE allow yourself to grieve.

Expecting the positive is one thing, dealing with undeniable proof is another. Take care of yourself, Sham.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

Shamwow said:


> Panties came back positive for semen. _Posted via Mobile Device_


$50 says she loaned them to someone. Any takers?


----------



## HurtinginTN

Sorry, man. You've got my number if you need to talk.


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> $50 says she loaned them to someone. Any takers?


I suggested that early on. Someone suggested that she let the OM have them for his own ... um ... satisfaction. 

I think she would deny no matter what.


----------



## the guy

MrK, that will be a hard bet to find, we all know she will find some lame reason for it.
More importantly, the OMW can be informed of the possiblity of unprotected sex.


----------



## WhereAmI

You know you're too invested in a TAM thread when you want to call up a WS and tear them a new *******.

Sham, the reason this thread is so captivating is because of you. You're a man who clearly loves his wife, but refuses to throw his boundaries out the window. You have every right to lash out, but your integrity has never waned. I'm sure you have your faults, but you have what it takes to be an amazing husband. I have no doubt that you were a great partner. Whatever her excuses are/were are simply not enough. Every marriage hits a rough patch and if she were stronger she would have worked to repair the M. Nothing you could have done would have prevented her downward spiral. You're going to make a deserving woman very happy someday. Take care of yourself!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Been trying to post for an hour now (on the road in the middle of nowhere, no 3G til just now) that Yes, I have called OMW and left a message. This makes the call to her impossible to avoid. And much easier for me to be 100% confident I'm doing the right thing. I'll leave her another message soon if I don't hear back. Have a feeling I will. And soon. We all have to get tested now, and even though it's been a looong time for me and W, I really can't be confident how long these things may have been going on.

They REALLY didn't use a condom?? Blows my mind.


----------



## Stunner

....and there goes the bullet in the zombies brain...


move on Sham....its dead....and go get laid trust me it'll help.

You're the Rocket Man now


----------



## Shamwow

MrK said:


> $50 says she loaned them to someone. Any takers?


As far as I'm concerned I am fully justified and confident in being done with her forever. She can say what she wants, it won't be true. And ladies, who loans their new Vic Secret panties out? That would be no one. But you're right, she would totally say that.

As far as OMW, the lab still has the sample. If she wants to test for DNA she can confirm if it's him or not. As for me, no need to confirm. W hasn't slept with me since April.

Crazy world folks. This is liberating though, no more feeling bad about maybe giving her another chance to talk or if I left too soon or too harshly.

Of course I want nothing to do with the imagery of what she may have done, but I feel very out of love with her after this information, and while I'm sure I'll still go up and down, this is ironclad that I did THE RIGHT THING.


----------



## Slapchop

Shamwow said:


> ...this is ironclad that I did THE RIGHT THING.


That's a bingo.


----------



## Shaggy

Well Sham. Now when or if she ever try's to claim nothing happened you can look her in the eye and tell her

"sorry sweetie, but the lab results on your nice new VS undies proved otherwise"

That just might put a true shiver through her about how much you really do know. 
She hadn't pulled any wool over your eyes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kenmoore14217

you absolutely did the correct thing and the proof is in the panties !!


----------



## SadSamIAm

I thought you were going to say "the proof is in the pudding". That would be gross.


----------



## Voiceofreason

Shamwow said:


> She can say what she wants, it won't be true. And ladies, who loans their new Vic Secret panties out? That would be no one. But you're right, she would totally say that.


...and when having the very visibly soiled panties returned to her, she just stuck them into her suitcase to bring home??? Gross...and absolutely ridiculous :rofl: (and, not that you would even care enough to do it b/c enough is enough, but that story could just tee up DNA confirmation testing to show the secretions are hers (mixed with his))


----------



## kenmoore14217

thought about it


----------



## Gabriel

I am so sorry Sham. Not because this was the thing keeping you with your wife, but because it's yet another jagged pill to swallow. 

It's very clear now that when you guys went camping, and your wife texted the OM that she felt guilty, and didn't deserve to have fun, this was the reason. 

Dark time is over. Good luck with the OMW. Your anger must be at an all time high. Try to reign it in. If it were me I would be blowing up at her and telling her off, but that's because I'm weaker than you.


----------



## Gabriel

I mean, even when she figured it was all over, she still said, "not that it matters, but nothing ended up happening, just a stupid fantasy."

Wow, I mean WOOOOOWWWWW


----------



## crossbar

sorry bud, but at least you know the truth. Please make sure you get tested.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> Sham one thing about the recent email. Why would a WW who's husband handed her papers and left, and a OM who supposedly has move out from his wife be worried about exposure?
> 
> I bet he hasn't moved out. If he had moved out, and they want to be together , then why hasn't he flown to join hetpr? He hasn't moved out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::lol::smthumbup::scratchhead:


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. D!rty Ba$tard is on pins and needles. He needs to be toyed with and then pushed over the edge. Sure doesn't seem to be so alpha now. Momma is going to blow if she finds out.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Dunno...he sent her his new address though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then he's afraid of info you can give her or he's just afraid of you.:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Shamwow

Talked with OMW. She suspected as much of my W, but had no proof. She knew about Vegas too, he swore she wasn't there. He said he was in FL for the week before Vegas (which was not where they were).

She wants everything I have, and wants to proceed with DNA test for him on the lab sample (if he denies). I just sent her an email with a load of logs, emails, flight confirmations (Vegas), etc. BOOM. She was hurt and cried some, but also was really forthcming with info from her end about OM's lies, and was VERY grateful for the call, as she needed proof as to her suspicions. Oh - and they have indeed separated, so that was true. But he has denied everything for weeks and months when she tried to talk to him about her suspicions, just as happened on my end.

Clearly she's already spoken with him, as I got a text from my W saying "You really are a pile. Guess I was right."

Let the fireworks fly, the deed is done. Now off to the doc next week for an STD array. My W just left me a VM...not sure if I want to listen to this thing.

Once again, the right thing has been done. Time to enjoy the holiday weekend. Good luck out there, all.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Talked with OMW. She suspected as much of my W, but had no proof. She knew about Vegas too, he swore she wasn't there. He said he was in FL for the week before Vegas (which was not where they were).
> 
> She wants everything I have, and wants to proceed with DNA test for him on the lab sample (if he denies). She was hurt and cried some, but was VERY grateful for the call, as she needed proof as to her suspicions. Oh - and they have indeed separated, so that was true.
> 
> Clearly she's already spoken with him, as I got a text from my W saying "You really are a pile. Guess I was right."
> 
> Let the fireworks fly, the deed is done. Now off to the doc next week for an STD array. My W just left me a VM...not sure if I want to listen to this thing.
> 
> Once again, the right thing has been done. Time to enjoy the holiday weekend.


Sham, I'm so sorry for the pain you are going through. I hope you can enjoy the weekend as much as possible.


----------



## useable

ok sham, nice to know you already help the OMW. btw, is she beautiful? ... lol. kidding


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Talked with OMW. She suspected as much of my W, but had no proof. She knew about Vegas too, he swore she wasn't there. He said he was in FL for the week before Vegas (which was not where they were).
> 
> She wants everything I have, and wants to proceed with DNA test for him on the lab sample (if he denies). I just sent her an email with a load of logs, emails, flight confirmations (Vegas), etc. BOOM. She was hurt and cried some, but also was really forthcming with info from her end about OM's lies, and was VERY grateful for the call, as she needed proof as to her suspicions. Oh - and they have indeed separated, so that was true. But he has denied everything for weeks and months when she tried to talk to him about her suspicions, just as happened on my end.
> 
> Clearly she's already spoken with him, as I got a text from my W saying "You really are a pile. Guess I was right."
> 
> Let the fireworks fly, the deed is done. Now off to the doc next week for an STD array. My W just left me a VM...not sure if I want to listen to this thing.
> 
> Once again, the right thing has been done. Time to enjoy the holiday weekend. Good luck out there, all.


The bomb has been dropped.

I would LOVE to hear that voice mail from your STBXW.:rofl:


----------



## Gabriel

My reply would be "Payback's a b*tch, B*tch".
Seriously though, I would listen to the VM. You are ruining her fun poor thing! This is a job well done Sham. Very sorry for the pain. I hope u are getting some comfort from this forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."

What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?

Okay, back on the road.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Talked with OMW. She suspected as much of my W, but had no proof. She knew about Vegas too, he swore she wasn't there. He said he was in FL for the week before Vegas (which was not where they were).
> 
> She wants everything I have, and wants to proceed with DNA test for him on the lab sample (if he denies). I just sent her an email with a load of logs, emails, flight confirmations (Vegas), etc. BOOM. She was hurt and cried some, but also was really forthcming with info from her end about OM's lies, and was VERY grateful for the call, as she needed proof as to her suspicions. Oh - and they have indeed separated, so that was true. But he has denied everything for weeks and months when she tried to talk to him about her suspicions, just as happened on my en
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly she's already spoken with him, as I got a text from my W saying "You really are a pile. Guess I was right."
> 
> Let the fireworks fly, the deed is done. Now off to the doc next week for an STD array. My W just left me a VM...not sure if I want to listen to this thing.
> 
> Once again, the right thing has been done. Time to enjoy the holiday weekend. Good luck out there, all.


You are a gentleman. There are two piles and they just hit the fan.


----------



## Shaggy

Sham you gave the OMW the truth to know she wasn't crazy and he was lying to you

You also hopefully ruined the WW and OM respective weekend and the thrill of their secrets 

Very well done. Please try to walk a little taller today. You have earned it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Don't call her. That would give her the satisfaction she wants. You are so winning right now. Did the omw tell the om about the panty test so that maybe your w knows about that now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.


Geeze. You sir have a will of iron. I know she is goading you but that would have prompted a profanity filled tirade from me.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.



Text her OMW says OM has herpes and she needs to get tested.

After all everything is fair in love and war and this ain't about love now.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Don't call her back. STBXW is past history now. All that's left is the paperwork. Time to begin working on your future. 

Oh and get your darn dogs back! 

Cypress


----------



## Thehusband2

Sham WELL DONE!!! 

The text and vm says essentially one thing: SHE IS PISSED!!!!

Another angle here: Although you uncovered her with proof that you just cannot refute that was not the case with OM+OMW until now.

This may cause strain on STBXW + OM

hahaha good job thats why she's (and he) is pissed!!!


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Don't call her. That would give her the satisfaction she wants. You are so winning right now. Did the omw tell the om about the panty test so that maybe your w knows about that now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't worry she ain't going to get no satisfaction from Sham no matter what he does.


:


----------



## Eli-Zor

Stay dark, their little love boat is sinking. Your wifes anger is because she cannot controll you . As for the OM's wife send her to the marraige builders site , the surviving an affair forum. Don't let on that you are here . They will help her and give her guidance, there are some tough folk there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Here's the good news. You don't have to live with her anymore. And unfortunately she is stuck living with herself for the rest of her life. Guess what, the pot of men willing to marry a twice divorced woman is very very small.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Both her text and vm show she is lashing out , your best weapon is silence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shaung

Shamwow said:


> Talked with OMW. She suspected as much of my W, but had no proof. She knew about Vegas too, he swore she wasn't there. He said he was in FL for the week before Vegas (which was not where they were).
> 
> She wants everything I have, and wants to proceed with DNA test for him on the lab sample (if he denies). I just sent her an email with a load of logs, emails, flight confirmations (Vegas), etc. BOOM. She was hurt and cried some, but also was really forthcming with info from her end about OM's lies, and was VERY grateful for the call, as she needed proof as to her suspicions. Oh - and they have indeed separated, so that was true. But he has denied everything for weeks and months when she tried to talk to him about her suspicions, just as happened on my end.
> 
> Clearly she's already spoken with him, as I got a text from my W saying "You really are a pile. Guess I was right."
> 
> Let the fireworks fly, the deed is done. Now off to the doc next week for an STD array. My W just left me a VM...not sure if I want to listen to this thing.
> 
> Once again, the right thing has been done. Time to enjoy the holiday weekend. Good luck out there, all.


You are doing the right things obviously. This forum has turned out to be very powerful indeed. So sorry for all you are going through.

Might help the OMW to come here too !!


----------



## Shamwow

Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

From hard experience it is not wise to have both betrayed spouses on the same forum hence my suggestion to send her to the MB site.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


U ought to tell her she's a piece of work and your glad to know the truth. Tell her u did her a favor by telling the OWM wife so now it will free him up to be with her.

hahahahaha!
:lol::rofl:


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.


Just ignore. Act indifferent. She is really so far away from the woman you once loved, Sham. Why open yourself up to this stranger's tirade? 

I'm glad you spoke to OMW and that she has her suspicions confirmed. While it was painful for her, she must feel a sense of relief knowing she's not the crazy jealous wife her dirty [email protected] husband tried to convince her she was. 

I have to say, I'm so thrilled you ruined OM's weekend. I'm sure your STBXW's not in the best of moods either. Ha! La-la-la-la-la! Just did a little dance in my chair. ;-) 

Your integrity, dignity and strength is very much intact. 

Oh, and I hope you are reconsidering leaving your wife with "her" puppy. That puppy needs to be with you and the other one.

Also, while I admire your kindness, please don't pull any punches and show any generosity when it comes to this divorce. Your STBXW deserves a little Shamwow POW.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sham smile she is now for the first time starting to feel the consequences .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OMG. Seriously?

Bring it.


----------



## thegreatsideswipe

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If i were you i would get the dogs and your stuff quickly


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Wow! STBXW will be up late thinking of schemes for revenge. 

Here is a list from the site in the link. She has done some of these already:


Clean out the bank account or safety deposit box.

Max out the credit cards.

Steal the furniture and run off with the cash.

Falsely claim physical abuse.

Get a restraining order against you based on false allegations.

File a petition to keep you out of your own home.

Spread nasty lies and badmouth you in front of mutual friends.

File motions and use delay tactics to tie you up in court and drain your finances.
Involve others in malicious actions against you.
Use your mutual or, unsuspecting “friends” to get inside information to use against you in court or even turn them into unwitting spies.

Time to put your helmet and flak jacket on 

Cypress


----------



## the guy

Stay dark let it sink in.

Whens the volleyball party and when do need to move your stuff to the new place?

Think it through and I just think its time to stay dark and let this all sink in, the OMW has laid everything out to OM so your W nows about the panties.

Just stay dark remember this war is on your terms, don't give in


----------



## girlfromipanema

Send the OMW to Surviving Infidelity (hopefully I'm not breaking the rules). That site has a lot of activity and she is going to need as much support as she can get. My heart goes out to her.


----------



## the guy

Its not about you being a p~ssy, its about her reaching for straws to get some kind of control.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Her logic makes my brain hurt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Tell her no it's not war, I surrender you are his now. 








FREEEEEDOM!


----------



## the guy

I suggest you write her a letter on all the crap you want to say right now, get it down on papper and hold on to it. 

There will be a time when you confront her in person and it will all be on your terms.

At least for now you can get this off your chest and still stay dark until you want to contact her.


IMHO the darker you stay the stronger you will get, the indifference that is building in you will grow and when you do confront you will be better off for it.


----------



## morituri

It's a good thing he and the stbx didn't produce little shammies.


----------



## Eli-Zor

the guy said:


> Its not about you being a p~ssy, its about her reaching for straws to get some kind of control.


O yes , a scripted wayward response after exposure , more so that Sham is dark. Somewhat insulting that she implies he does not want to get back with her , after her effort to undermine Sham.

Give it time and thought before the next major encounter. In the meanwhile enjoy the weekend .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sam83

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think ur lawyer will be happy with this one I would forward it to him


----------



## Almostrecovered

Quick question, did omw say why they were separated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

sam83 said:


> I think ur lawyer will be happy with this one I would forward it to him




Checkmate


----------



## Shamwow

Texts from STBX: : "Do what you will. Terrorize me, my friends, my family. I'm still smiling. Life couldn't be better."

"Why are you f***ing with someone else's life. You are so sick."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

She is still lashing out , the gaslighting will start in ernest now.

The power of being dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Stay dark, engaging her will get you no were!

Write it down (your current thoughts) or vent here at TAM


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> Texts from STBX: : "Do what you will. Terrorize me, my friends, my family. I'm still smiling. Life couldn't be better."
> 
> "Why are you f***ing with someone else's life. You are so sick."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Message one sounds happy go lucky and message two sounds panicked out the wazoo.

Bless her heart.


----------



## Shamwow

Gabriel said:


> Don't call her. That would give her the satisfaction she wants. You are so winning right now. Did the omw tell the om about the panty test so that maybe your w knows about that now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, she'll know about the panties soon enough. She'll say I'm perverted for taking them. Not a big concern now, my M is definitely over anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sam83

Shamwow said:


> Texts from STBX: : "Do what you will. Terrorize me, my friends, my family. I'm still smiling. Life couldn't be better."
> 
> "Why are you f***ing with someone else's life. You are so sick."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


man she is so pissed I can hear her keypad destroyed from here :rofl:


----------



## the guy

Eli,
Can she gaslight to her self? LOL

How can she gas light when Shams not engaging her


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Texts from STBX: : "Do what you will. Terrorize me, my friends, my family. I'm still smiling. Life couldn't be better."
> 
> "Why are you f***ing with someone else's life. You are so sick."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Except the part where she broke up a family with two children. Guess she doesn't like kids. I would make sure she was reminded of this often.


----------



## girlfromipanema

She can say you're a pervert, but she'll know you're a man who won't be gas-lighted and stonewalled. A man she should have shown well-deserved respect. A man she shouldn't eff with.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Shamwow said:


> Yeah, she'll know about the panties soon enough. She'll say I'm perverted for taking them. Not a big concern now, my M is definitely over anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would like to hear her explain the semen to her parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

chapparal said:


> Except the part where she broke up a family with two children. Guess she doesn't like kids. I would make sure she was reminded of this often.


I didn't realize children were involved with OM/OMW. Very sad.


----------



## the guy

Sham,
Whats up with the "terroriz", I thought you were staying dark/ NC?

Are you not telling us something?

What have you been really doing, HEHEHEHE!


----------



## Thehusband2

yes DO NOT engage..... let all this sink in

BTW: it is unbelievable that you uncovering and informing OMW is F*$%ing with other lives and sick, BUT what they did is not....hypocritical!!!

It is crazy that she just cannot say sorry and agree to move on descent terms! This is so sad


----------



## sam83

sham send ur wife her panties with lab result via FedEx :lol:

man if u ever come to Egypt just PM me I'll be happy to take u to see pyramids and sphinx


----------



## joe kidd

What about your life? The one you thought you were sharing with her. Sounds as if she does not like it when she has to smell what she has been throwing.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.


Sham,

Despite the narrative that has built up about her reasons for doing everything since you left, you should possibly think about what she has actually seen from you, in person and through the actual events that have occured. The initial encounter didn't go so well, but you were caught off guard. To keep yourself together, you needed to deposit the evidence on your way out. I've wondered if, instead of conniving, there is a fair amount of determination on her part that you will not face her over what happened. The question is, do you need to face her, or call her, in order to feel like you are ready to begin putting this behind you?

Please don't get trapped into continual analysis of every incident. We here respect you and what you've done, and most just want to be a support. What do you need to do? If you still fear talking to her, do you need to do this to get past it? Even if you deliberately decide to give it a rest until after the holiday.

I only offer this because it can be incredibly easy to use this board as something much more than a support base.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Sham,
> Whats up with the "terroriz", I thought you were staying dark/ NC?
> 
> Are you not telling us something?
> 
> What have you been really doing, HEHEHEHE!



Nope, dark. She's referring to me talking to OMW. 

Dude, the floodgates are OPEN from her end. Many texts, many emails, all similar to what I've posted so far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Until she express remorse you stay dark, then you mail her your requirements and choose a place to meet .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Have you sight of the conversations between her and the OM since exposing to the OM's wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## useable

she is sooo pissed off right now. i am sure sham will stay calm.


----------



## the guy

Thats what I figured thanks for confirming.

She doesn't sound so stable and smiling right now!

Most folks that are happy don't use words like war, terrorize, or p~ssy. She is nuts.

If she was really happy should was use words like "have a nice day", "good luck to you", and "wish you the best".

Whos she kidding?


----------



## Almostrecovered

Wow, you know you when R was not an option when the first time you got her to fight for anything was when she is trying to defend her new man
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Text: "She doesn't deserve that. That's low."

(referring to OMW. her logic is stunning)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thehusband2

Sttuuunnninggg! wow!!!!


----------



## useable

Shamwow said:


> Text: "She doesn't deserve that. That's low."
> 
> (referring to OMW. her logic is stunning)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WTF. what is this woman thinking. it is better to tell her H infidelity than to keep it from her.

your STBX is truly sick


----------



## Eli-Zor

Standard babble from a wayward that has been exposed .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> Quick question, did omw say why they were separated?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure. She did say I'll certainly be hearing from her as this goes forward, so I'm sure we'll both get some more questions answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Eli-Zor said:


> I would like to hear her explain the semen to her parents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are no kids involved on either side. Just dogs. And 8+ yrs for us and apparently 20 for them. Sad...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Not sure. She did say I'll certainly be hearing from her as this goes forward, so I'm sure we'll both get some more questions answered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well done Sham Well Done :smthumbup:


----------



## Shaggy

Interesting. She seems more upset about the OMW learning the truth than she was about you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Shamwow said:


> There are no kids involved on either side. Just dogs. And 8+ yrs for us and apparently 20 for them. Sad...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess the OM is wetting himself now, 20 years and a possible divorce on grounds of adultry, with a smart attorney she can clean him out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Any interesting email between them after the notification?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> There are no kids involved on either side. Just dogs. And 8+ yrs for us and apparently 20 for them. Sad...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I apologize for the two kids post I was absolutely sure of that. Must be reading too many threads. Wish this was my first mistake. Rats

:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## the guy

No not really, all part of the cheaters script.


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shaggy said:


> Interesting. She seems more upset about the OMW learning the truth than she was about you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only because it's the only "outlandish" (in her mind) thing Sham has done that allows her to lash out at him.

Also, she's in her psycho-phase because her fun is over and its now time to deal with reality. Very typical reaction when the spouse tell's affair partner's spouse.


----------



## Thehusband2

Eli-Zor said:


> Standard babble from a wayward that has been exposed .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a naive question....but why??? I dont understand the crazy illogic, rudeness, etc... that comes out after being exposed...afterall they were married??? OMG


----------



## Eli-Zor

If Sham was as home she would be verbally lashing out and threatening divorce , at this moment she can only send text messages and she has no idea what exactly Sham knows . Waywards follow a script they lose common sense during an affair and when caught.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Thehusband2 said:


> This is a naive question....but why??? I dont understand the crazy illogic, rudeness, etc... that comes out after being exposed...afterall they were married??? OMG


It's just blame shifting. Trying to make someone else shoulder the blame for something they did. The reason is because what they have done is so horrible. People used to get stoned for this. Its right up there with the worst things you can do to a person you love. Thats why they had to call Sham names and talk about him like they did. Just a major case of denial. Anger now depression later.


----------



## seeking sanity

Thehusband2 said:


> This is a naive question....but why??? I dont understand the crazy illogic, rudeness, etc... that comes out after being exposed...afterall they were married??? OMG


I believe it to be similar to taking away the drug from an addict and watching them freak out. The affair creates a certain high - excitement, adrenaline, endorphins. That's the appeal. She's now had her drug taken away.


----------



## alphaomega

Sham,

Yes. Her reaction is very much part of the Cheaters Script. She projects the blame to you so she doesn't feel guilty. All standard stuff. My stbxw did ths too. And, said a lot of th same things.

Ignore this crap. It's all drivel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Kinda wish you got your stuff already. Especially the dog. How soon can you get a truck and two friends to get this over with. The longer she stews like she is the worse it gets.


----------



## smarti36

I'm sure she is pissed because she underestimated you! She deserves everything she is getting and will get. Good luck to you buddy! Your my hero!


----------



## morituri

Maybe OM is pi$$ed at her and may have given her a severe tongue lashing blaming his philandering on her stupidity. Truth is stranger than fiction you know.


----------



## Catherine602

She and her dirtbag OM is projecting the guilt and gutter behavior onto you. Can you blame them - who would want to be what they are, liars, cowards, deceivers, and delusional. The OM is like a girl hiding not man enough to face his wife with honesty. And blaming someone else while he is in his rabbit hole. He got you foolish wife out front acting as his pit bull. She had sex with that thing. She has definitely come down in her taste. 

I think it is time you talk to her. Tell her you will talk to her face to face when you get back and to stop communicating with you. Tell her you understand why she and her boyfriend are trying to dump this s**t on you. You would not want to be in their shoes when their friends and family find out that they are liars and cowards. Tell her if she thinks anyone will think you did anything to do with hurting his wife, she has really gone over the deep end. 

They eeefff each other or fornicated as her father would say, how is that your problem. Tell her you feel sorry for her that she lowered herself to what she is now. Tell her you no longer want her so don't contact you until you contact her. 

Be fearless and fierce like she has never heard from you. Cool and cold like you are talking to a piece of s**t. You are in a very strong position. Contrary to appearances you have her on the ropes keep her there. She thinks she can talk or bully her way out of this. Just treat her like a bug for the time being. 

She is in for some big payback. So is her bf hiding out in his rabbit hole she is going to want to crawl in there with him. Just wait when the heat is up he going to dump her and go it alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Or, just let her burn her anger off. Let her trash about. She'll have to stop eventually.

There is no urgent need to talk to her.


----------



## the guy

:iagree:
Let it settle down


----------



## Entropy3000

You need to go back and get your friend.

Your dog.

But do not sneak back.


----------



## Shaggy

Do not sneak back. That is what cowards do. You have proven yourself no coward.

Do not go back alone. That is what fools do. You have Aldo proven yourself no fool.

Do consider giving her a new pair of panties to replace the ones you took for testing.

Do talk more with OMW. She has much knowledge from the other side of the door. Listen to what he knows and has scene.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> Text: "She doesn't deserve that. That's low."
> 
> (referring to OMW. her logic is stunning)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OH!!! BUT YOU DID?!?!?

Unbelieveable! I am really glad that you finally got a hold of OMW. I hope you made yourself available to her if she ever needed to talk. Some people would say just to leave her alone; none of your business. But, as you wrote! She seemed grateful for the call. I'm glad that she wants a copy of all evidence and wants to do the DNA analysis for her own benefit.

She didn't have the pieces to that puzzle. Good job on helping her find those missing pieces.


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She seriously expected you to come crawling back! Unreal!!!!

War? what war does she think is gonna happen? You live in a no fault state. A marriage with no kids is a divorce judges dream! Divide assets 50/50, next case! However, that should ring bells with you. NEVER talk to her without a recording device or a witness from this point on. 

Plus, don't talk to her now if she calls...why...so you can listen to her scream at you? I think you have better things to do.

Oh, and please inform the OMW that she lives in an "at fault" state. She might not know about all of that. Please, tell her that if she going for a divorce, it would be in her best interest for her lawyer to file for a divorce on the grounds of adultry rather than a disolution. That's only going to benefit her in court and leave the OM without a pot to piss in.


----------



## Shamwow

OMW informed me that based on my evidence OM has admitted PA with my STBX. Bullseye. She thanked me for helping her "rip off the band-aid". She told me I'm a good man and thanked me again for calling. Glad I sacked up, worth it to know the truth all around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Curious to know if OMW has said anything about an R with her POS H.
If OM wants to work on his marriage, this may leave you wife to come to some reality. It may not.
It doesn't matter I quess the point is she is a good source of information regarding your STBX next move and the count er measure that you may need to look at?


----------



## Voiceofreason

Absolutely stay dark and enjoy your weekend...she is going nuts dealing with everything crumbling while all by herself...and OM far away and in deep doo doo by himself...she still won't look in the mirror and is lashing out...let her...like banging her head against the wall

staying dark isn't weak...it means you...don't ...care...you are done with her...she doesn't deserve a reply. It isn't weak to refuse to have discussions with a chronic liar and betrayer...who in their right mind would do that? You can't believe anything she says and you won't change her mind on any of this. The only thing that will change her mind is when, in time, she may begin to understand what she has done--something she has so far compartmentalized and falsely rationalized so she can live with herself and sleep at night.

You control when you deal...better get advice from your attorney on getting into the house...her "war" threat may change things here...I was earlier not convinced about prior advice to have police assistance, but with her threat they might just be willing to come keep the peace and that might make some sense now or perhaps an order of entry from a judge. You might want to get a restaining order now as well--it may condition the judge in your favor if he/she learns that you have been completely dark except to send requested dog food, and she is a lying adulterer who threatened war for no reason other than your informing OMW of reality/truth/fact ... so she could join all the rest of us in living in reality instead of the la la land that Mrs Sham and OM are living in and wanted to impose on everyone else.

Go full 180--when you meet it is all business: "I'm not discussing any of this with a chronic liar so you might as well stop" You are not afraid of her, you are just done with her.


----------



## alphaomega

Now THAT'S the voice of reason!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## washburn

What is everyones thoughts on what sham outta do next?

He needs to get his stuff and his dog srsly. When does everyone think he outta go? During the party? In her rage she might change the locks or heck might not even go to the party...

If he shows up while shes there to get his stuff she might go APE....!

so what is everybody thinkin?


----------



## F-102

Sham, it may be best not to respond to her except for "business" reasons, i.e., the dogs, your stuff, lawyers, assets, divorce proceedings. Keep it all business and don't let your emotions guide you-she is the one sending threatening messages and basically hinting that she will get revenge (oh, BTW, you may be able to use these against her), but you must set the example, that you can keep your head when she lost hers somewhere in Vegas.

Great that you touched base with the OMW, and doubly glad that it worked out (I practically fell out of my chair laughing when the OM finally had to admit the A!!!).

Allow my overactive imagination to take center stage for awhile. I can picture the convo between STBXW and OM:

OM- "Why the hell did you leave your panties for him to find?"

STBXW- "I'm sorry!!! I was certain he wouldn't have the ba**s or brains to catch on!!!"

OM- "You let him find everything! You swore to me that he wouldn't find out! Now I'm gonna (expletive deleted) lose everything!"

STBXW-"Look, I said I'm (expletive deleted) sorry. What do you want me to do? It's not my fault that he grew a brain and (expletive deleted) ruined everything!!!"

OM- "Well, you better fix this (expletive deleted) mess or else!!! Oh god, why, oh why did I (expletive deleted) trust you?!?. My wife's gonna ruin me! I'm sorry I ever met you!"

STBXW- "Oh, yeah?!? Well, (expletive deleted) you!!! All you (expletive deleted) men are the same!!! You all (expletive deleted) me over!!!

OM- (expletive deleted)

STBXW- (expletive deleted-ad nauseum)

Now, sham, she no longer has the secret, fun life she wanted-she found out the hard way that you are made of sterner stuff, and soon, reality will set in. She may try to make things work with the OM, but the legal and financial hell that he is about to go thru will surely kill whatever "useless fantasy" she has left.

Don't forget the advice of having witnesses (preferably, with a cop) when you get your stuff.

Excellent job, Sham-now live life the way YOU want it.


----------



## alphaomega

Just go get your stuff when your ready to. Simple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## krismimo

All I can say is WOWZERS! I read the whole thread and you have been through a lot, I commend you for keeping your head on straight for most of this. The only thing I felt you should have done was get your'e things first, move in your place, then call the other man's wife. 

But you didn't, can't cry over spilt milk. I have been in simular position like yours before, and I know how hard is to walk away, but when you do choose to walk away YOU KNOW it is the right choice, although that doesn't mean that it makes it any less difficult. 

As for going over to the old place, I STRONGLY SUGGEST BASED ON FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE that If you can PLEASE get a officer to escort you or a Sherrif. They're biased,intimidating, and well the law. Reading everything up tp this point she really didn't show any emotion until you called the other man's wife. 

She is pissed off and angry not a good time to go with your pals and try to get your stuff, break down the situation with the police get your stuff and get the hell out of dodge. When and if you decide to speak later I also think you should meet at a neutral place like a park, diner etc. Based on what you have wriiten so far she did threaten you, and you yourself did say not that long ago that when she is upset she can be really nasty when crossed and or feels betrayed... rolls eyes.

And finally, after you get your affairs in order and you move in your apartment... seriously, get a new phone plan stop reading the emails between him and her and texts and completely get "ghost" ya know sort of like your doing now. Life is like a roller coaster BUCKLE UP.

I'M ROOTING FOR YOU  When the wind no longer calls you maybe it is time to remember your name.


----------



## Gabriel

This really should be the handbook on how to handle a hostile, cheating, STBX. This thread has forever changed TAM for the better.

Now that she is threatening war, my opinion is a little different than some others. I think you need to get a cop and go get your stuff/dogs immediately. This woman is capable of a lot of damage. Why wait until Monday when she MIGHT go to this party? Get a cop, go to the house ASAP, let him watch you pack your things and leave. Take the dog(s) to a friends house for 3-4 days until your apt is ready.

Then from there, all you need to do is proceed with the divorce and only deal with her on that. You will never get closure from your W. She will never back down - I can just feel that.


----------



## krismimo

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: You have to protect yourself and well assume to TRULY deal with her like a stanger.


----------



## morituri

Sham, please start your healing process now. Leave us if you must. You are beholden to anybody but yourself.


----------



## Almostrecovered

from last week....



Shamwow said:


> I just called the police and asked some questions about my situation. They said basically there's no precedent to file a report of any kind if there has been no incident. IF she were to start making a scene or make allegations about me, then they would investigate it, and the fact that I have witnesses of my whereabouts and proof of when I left the house, they would likely consider her story BS if there was nothing to prove it.
> 
> I said, "Well, it's just that I've been warned by some friends that she can turn the law against me pretty easily if she wants to be vindictive, and I have no idea what to expect from her right now, as she's a totally different person lately".
> 
> The officer told me he's actually going through something similar right now, so he understood where I was coming from. He took my name down and *said to call if there was any development they should be aware of.* Other than that, he said to bring a witness when go back to get my things, and a VAR in the pocket is completely justifiable and legal, though he suggested I walk in and start by telling her "Everything is being recorded right now, just here to get my things".
> 
> I asked about the car. He said it's technically "our" car, no matter whose name it's under, and she could theoretically sue for it. But possession is 9/10 of he law, so she would have to go through the courts to get access to it legally, since I have it now.


Just saying it might not be a bad idea to call the same officer before going to pick up your stuff and give him an update so it's on record.


----------



## inmygut

Have been following entire thread. I admire your level of self control. (Some of those texts have me p!ssed and I don't even know her.) You are looking out for your best interests by staying strong. I hope that helping the OMW is bringing you more strength. Take care of yourself and keep your attorney and the police in the loop to keep yourself protected. Good luck.


----------



## Chaparral

inmygut said:


> Have been following entire thread. I admire your level of self control. (Some of those texts have me p!ssed and I don't even know her.) You are looking out for your best interests by staying strong. I hope that helping the OMW is bringing you more strength. Take care of yourself and keep your attorney and the police in the loop to keep yourself protected. Good luck.


I think Sham's wife's texts are probably having the opposite effect of what she is intending. I know I would be reexamining my whole relationship with her. She's definitely eat up with the fog. It will be interesting to see if she follows the rest of the cheaters script. Will she ever come down and realize what she has done. She may go through the whole cycle of denial, anger, acceptance, remorse and contrition. 

I'm betting (fitty cent) she does. Apologizing in advance for eternal optimism but I can't believe she is the venom spitting serpent a lot of posters think she is. She's going to hit a wall and come crashing down. She already had self esteem issues and this sure isn't going to help. Hope Sham can post a few updates over the next few months. They (OM and Wife) sure have managed to mangle themselves and their loved ones.

The big difference in this thread is Sham discovered months of communication between OM and wife. It confirmed his suspicions but what a burden. Sorry he had to see that. No one should have to endure that kind of thing. Hopefully everyone is praying for all involved they surely need it. All very sad but it will get better.


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> Sorry he had to see that.




hmmmm....where have I seen this before?



Personally, I feel that as heart wrenching it is to see something like that, I am not sorry he had to see it. The truth may sting but at least he now knows where he stands and do what he needs to do.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> hmmmm....where have I seen this before?
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I feel that as heart wrenching it is to see something like that, I am not sorry he had to see it. The truth may sting but at least he now knows where he stands and do what he needs to do.


 IDK?


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## Voiceofreason

chapparal said:


> I think Sham's wife's texts are probably having the opposite effect of what she is intending. I know I would be reexamining my whole relationship with her. She's definitely eat up with the fog. It will be interesting to see if she follows the rest of the cheaters script. Will she ever come down and realize what she has done. She may go through the whole cycle of denial, anger, acceptance, remorse and contrition.
> 
> I'm betting (fitty cent) she does. Apologizing in advance for eternal optimism but I can't believe she is the venom spitting serpent a lot of posters think she is. She's going to hit a wall and come crashing down. She already had self esteem issues and this sure isn't going to help. Hope Sham can post a few updates over the next few months. They (OM and Wife) sure have managed to mangle themselves and their loved ones.
> 
> The big difference in this thread is Sham discovered months of communication between OM and wife. It confirmed his suspicions but what a burden. Sorry he had to see that. No one should have to endure that kind of thing. Hopefully everyone is praying for all involved they surely need it. All very sad but it will get better.


I agree it is very possible that Mrs Sham will wake up. It sure seems like the Sham horse has left the marriage barn, but she may well come around to understand the gravity of what she did and have remorse. Sham has done the things necessary to enhance that possibility: (1) 180, (2) not lashing out at her (which is part of the 180), (3) exposing the affair to OMW, (4) keeping his dignity (also part of the 180), (5) moving on. Sham is showing her dignity, reality, character, strength and reasonable conduct...she may well come around to recognizing these shortcomings in herself and her conduct. Sham is modeling good behavior and character--he's the grown up--she will probably come around to recognizing all that at some point.


----------



## tacoma

I was certain you'd get some emotion out of your wife once you informed the OMW.
Well done Shamwow.

The only thing left to do is get your stuff & file the papers.

Considering recent events you most definitely want someone to go with you to get your things.
Have a VAR in your pocket, don't forget to retrieve the VAR you left there.
I would be a good idea to call the police and inform them of your moving out situation and ask their advice on how they suggest you go about it.the same way you dis last time with the car.

Sham, you have handled this incredibly ****ed up situation with more class than most would have been able to muster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I wonder if OM is trying to continue chase Shams wife or is now throwing her under the bus to save his own marriage?

Wanna bet much of this started with the OM aging screwed up his own marriage, decided to turn to Shams wife and tell her all about his problems, followed by a mutual b1tch sessions, a lot more drinks and then a make out session? OM got her drunk, made a move , followed by him saying he knew it was wrong but he just feels do much more with her than his wife, etc. The classic play by a scummy OM looking to score on the road.

Well let's hope he isn't having any fun this weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ManDup

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.


What's wrong with a pu**y? Those things can take a pounding.


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## aeg512

Considering Sham's WW's reaction after finding out that the A had been exposed to the other BS, I have a strong feeling that the OM through her under the bus. Since he is in a fault state he will try his best to protect his assets and now the A may have been broken up and now she has no fall back. After Sham gets his belongings I think he should raise it a notch and let all know that it was a sexual A and that she just does not have the ability to tell the truth.


----------



## the guy

512,
That serve no porpose, Any additional details given to both sets of parent is now just being vandictive.

Her parents will not think any different of there daughter, sexual or not. I think they already know shes promiscous as a young girl.

The OMW knows the score and thats good enough in my book.

Telling others about her sexual appitite, is ammo for STBX. Some may call it slanderous, true but.............


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Texts from STBX: : "Do what you will. Terrorize me, my friends, my family. I'm still smiling. Life couldn't be better."
> 
> "Why are you f***ing with someone else's life. You are so sick."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's trying to salvage the pride-she knows that her fantasy life is over.


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Her VM: "Figured you were too much of a pu**y to answer."
> 
> What do you think, call her back and let her yell, or just ignore? What's the strongest play?
> 
> Okay, back on the road.


What I think, is if you must reply, tell her that you will talk to her when she can talk to you like an adult and not use name-calling, which is like hitting; it shows that you have lost control and run out of options.


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Text from W: "Guess you didn't want to work it out. Good to know it's war."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This can be perceived as a threat. You can use it against her.


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Text: "She doesn't deserve that. That's low."
> 
> (referring to OMW. her logic is stunning)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is like someone who is in the ****pit of a plane in an irreversible nose dive; she is panicking and pushing ANY button to stop the crash.


----------



## F-102

What, you can't say ****pit here? Should I have said flightdeck?


----------



## F-102

Sham, she is freaking out, I'd like to think that she is sitting by the phone all weekend, shaking and waiting for you to call.

Sham, you have snatched victory from the very jaws of defeat-she knows this. She realizes that you have let the air out of her tires and took control...

...and she is PISSED!


----------



## ClipClop

I've read all along. You are brilliant, Sham. 

At this point I would do nothing. No relationship talk. No engaging. Get your stuff and do not talk, respond or acknowledge. 

She and her stbx bf have a drama that needs to play out. Let it. Before it does she will be useless to negotiate with because she will be trying to figure out which situation to try to salvage. She will not operate sanely or honestly. Sit back and enjoy watching her reap what she has sown.

If you want to tell her parents more, fine. Do it with respect for them in mind. Regardless of how they feel about their daughter, you also have a relationship with them and a right to ask for their understanding. 

Friends? Just say you have proof of a pa and lying and that all of those things plus her inability to ask fora a divorce before cheating and misappropriating marital assets left you no choice.

Remember, she has lied to everyone.

Let her drama play out. Talk only when things settle. 

You are awesome, Sham. Should change your name to ManWow!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Manwow,
I aggree let the drama settle, but get your stuff/dog, read her if she can maintain then engage her but keep it brief, if shes off then do not. I know coomen sence but sometimes emotion can run wild and it just has to be said.


----------



## ClipClop

And ask the cop to go with you. But I implore you, say nothing except that you are there to collect your things. Let her rant. A cop is a great witness.

And the cop might end up being a friend. Once he sees how you handle yourself he can't help but admire you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Yeah, no response to her for the weekend from my end. She called a good friend of mine last night and asked where I was, cause its war (again with the war). For the record, I'm hundreds of miles away, and he doesn't know where I am so that made that easy. She then said she's in a really dark place, she really f***ed things up and doesn't know what to do. (sounds like a little reality there)

But she then proceeded to send me a string of texts at 4am, all along the lines of blaming me. For example, she is pretending to be standing up for OMW still: "So you hurt this woman for no reason, but you know this doesn't hurt anyone else. Are you ill?". And then something about how all I'm doing is telling everyone how cold I was in bed. Whatever, this is what I expected. May make a few brief calls today to the same friends I called first last week, just update that things are more volatile at the moment, and that I'll be talking to them soon if they would like an explanation (which I will keep light on details, but just mention I had fully justified reason to contact OMW). Leave it at that. A little damage control.

Other than that, off to the gym, then good day out on the town to come.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Nice job, enjoy your night - try not to get drunk 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Wow you really really got under her skin! 

I wonder if she knows the OM comfirmed the PA to his wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ClipClop

One result that comes from being lied to and gaslighted when in your heart you know something is wrong, is the loss of trust in yourself . They say 1 thing your gut and brain say It's something else. you wanna trust your gut but you also want to believe them . how do you reconcile the two? So you go on dealing with this conflict. If the WS continues to maintain their innocence and gets away with it or you do find definitive answers but not before a long time in between your senses and lies you learn to question what is real, what is true and whether your own senses can tell you the truth. 

Our senses are our interface to the world. Everything we know is through that portal.

The OMs wife now knows she is not nuts. If that is all she gets out of this mess, I would say it is the most valuable of gifts. ManWow gave to her something that no one except her lying husband could give, but he chose to take the sense of safety that comes with self trust from her.

You don't have to justify yourself to anyone. You saved her from something worse than being cheated on... the loss of self trust.

God bless you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

When you go to get you stuff, make a list of all the important things to get. You want to get in and get out. You don't want to go there a second time. There will be too many triggers in the house.

Ask the police to make her stay in the backyard. This will reduce any venom spitting.

Some things you might want to get, if you haven't done it yet:


3 years worth of tax returns
Marriage license
Your birth certificate
Your passport
All the current bills (Your going to want to get your name off of any joint accounts)
Any medications
Something with her SSN on it, if you don't know it
Veterinary info for dogs
 Any firearms (don't let the police see this)

If she is not watching, get the Wedding album (for burning later) :FIREdevil:

And go there with this guys attitude.

Hell's coming with me - YouTube

One more thing; ask a friend to drive by your house today. She may start tossing your stuff out the door.

Cypress


----------



## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore

Whew!!! I’m finally caught up on my reading, over 2,400 replies and 163 pages worth. Not sure I can offer much that hasn’t already been stated by other members. 

Shamwow ~

I've been on that same emotional roller coaster ride myself. You will eventually heal, but you will never forget. As time passes, you will read other’s posts here on TAM and it will strike those “been there, done that” memories. Even after three years, your’s and another member’s thread (WhiteRabbit’s from last spring) has particularly hit home with me. While reading through I could very easily relate as discovery of infidelity on your spouse’s part became more apparent.

Some of us just wind up with the crappy end of the stick when it came to marrying a partner who was able to stay monogamous. Contacting the OMW or OWH seems to always be a gamble. Do they truly desire knowledge of this information or would the rather just stay oblivious? It is rather interesting that your stbx tried to turn the tables on how YOU caused the OMW pain. Stbx definitely seems to lack accountability and ownership for her actions there.

Those of us who have been in your shoes can empathize with the many emotions and decisions this situation brings to your life. Each of our circumstances are unique to our own lives and we make our decisions based on that. Many of us look back and think, ‘Ok, I handled that well.’ or ‘OMG! I still can’t believe I did that.’ 

My point being, is that the members here on TAM can offer to be a great sounding board for you. Believe me, this roller coaster ride is far from over. Hang in there!


----------



## crossbar

texting you at 4AM? Guess she not getting a good nights sleep! Wonder why? oh yeah.....guilt!!!


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## golfergirl

crossbar said:


> texting you at 4AM? Guess she not getting a good nights sleep! Wonder why? oh yeah.....guilt!!!


Wonder if she's still smiling 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kymbree

I just read all the post,and Sham I think you are doing great.I do hope that when you go to get your things from the house, that you take a cop. I really think she may try to hurt her self and blame it on you.Like you said before this is not the girl you married and I'am sorry but I think she is nuts and will do anything she can to cause you pain,even causing herself pain.Please give this some serious thought.Have a safe happy weekend Sham and everyone reading.


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Yeah, no response to her for the weekend from my end. She called a good friend of mine last night and asked where I was, cause its war (again with the war). For the record, I'm hundreds of miles away, and he doesn't know where I am so that made that easy. She then said she's in a really dark place, she really f***ed things up and doesn't know what to do. (sounds like a little reality there)
> 
> But she then proceeded to send me a string of texts at 4am, all along the lines of blaming me. For example, she is pretending to be standing up for OMW still: "So you hurt this woman for no reason, but you know this doesn't hurt anyone else. Are you ill?". And then something about how all I'm doing is telling everyone how cold I was in bed. Whatever, this is what I expected. May make a few brief calls today to the same friends I called first last week, just update that things are more volatile at the moment, and that I'll be talking to them soon if they would like an explanation (which I will keep light on details, but just mention I had fully justified reason to contact OMW). Leave it at that. A little damage control.
> 
> Other than that, off to the gym, then good day out on the town to come.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is Class Act Sham, 

I would never been able to pull what you just did, Hats off to you :smthumbup:


----------



## aeg512

I am not so sure your wife does not deserve a text with just two quesitons. Do you not think that your fxxxing the OM did not hurt his BW? Why do you keep using the term "War?" From the info you have been planning this for months. This last one would make her paranoid, for she may remember only using it once with you.


----------



## crossbar

Nah, don't respond. She's just trying to draw you into an arguement. I don't get how telling the OMW the truth only tells people that you're cold in bed? That doesn't make any sense. Well, if you didn't know what fog babble looks like! You do now!


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> This really should be the handbook on how to handle a hostile, cheating, STBX. This thread has forever changed TAM for the better.
> 
> Now that she is threatening war, my opinion is a little different than some others. *I think you need to get a cop and go get your stuff/dogs immediately.* This woman is capable of a lot of damage. Why wait until Monday when she MIGHT go to this party? Get a cop, go to the house ASAP, let him watch you pack your things and leave. Take the dog(s) to a friends house for 3-4 days until your apt is ready.
> 
> Then from there, all you need to do is proceed with the divorce and only deal with her on that. You will never get closure from your W. She will never back down - I can just feel that.


:iagree: But rent a truck.


----------



## Entropy3000

ClipClop said:


> I've read all along. You are brilliant, Sham.
> 
> At this point I would do nothing. No relationship talk. No engaging. Get your stuff and do not talk, respond or acknowledge.
> 
> She and her stbx bf have a drama that needs to play out. Let it. Before it does she will be useless to negotiate with because she will be trying to figure out which situation to try to salvage. She will not operate sanely or honestly. Sit back and enjoy watching her reap what she has sown.
> 
> If you want to tell her parents more, fine. Do it with respect for them in mind. Regardless of how they feel about their daughter, you also have a relationship with them and a right to ask for their understanding.
> 
> Friends? Just say you have proof of a pa and lying and that all of those things plus her inability to ask fora a divorce before cheating and misappropriating marital assets left you no choice.
> 
> Remember, she has lied to everyone.
> 
> Let her drama play out. Talk only when things settle.
> 
> You are awesome, Sham. Should change your name to ManWow!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Be above and beyond it all. In the longe run ALL will see tyou as the strong and quality guy you are. Let all that other drama play itself out and not drain your energies and life force. No point to engage with it. Use that energy in a positive way to move your life forward. Some people are just sucking eddys of despair and wish to bring other down with them.

The only way to win this is to not play the game at all.


----------



## Dadof3

aeg512 said:


> I am not so sure your wife does not deserve a text with just two quesitons. Do you not think that your fxxxing the OM did not hurt his BW? Why do you keep using the term "War?" From the info you have been planning this for months. This last one would make her paranoid, for she may remember only using it once with you.


:iagree::iagree:

You are doing great with the dark - Iagree with aeg that it might be smart to start being selective on reply texts - this suggestion is great. keep her off keel, then go dark again.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Yeah, no response to her for the weekend from my end. She called a good friend of mine last night and asked where I was, cause its war (again with the war). For the record, I'm hundreds of miles away, and he doesn't know where I am so that made that easy. She then said she's in a really dark place, she really f***ed things up and doesn't know what to do. (sounds like a little reality there)
> 
> But she then proceeded to send me a string of texts at 4am, all along the lines of blaming me. For example, she is pretending to be standing up for OMW still: "So you hurt this woman for no reason, but you know this doesn't hurt anyone else. Are you ill?". And then something about how all I'm doing is telling everyone how cold I was in bed. Whatever, this is what I expected. May make a few brief calls today to the same friends I called first last week, just update that things are more volatile at the moment, and that I'll be talking to them soon if they would like an explanation (which I will keep light on details, but just mention I had fully justified reason to contact OMW). Leave it at that. A little damage control.
> 
> Other than that, off to the gym, then good day out on the town to come.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:

This is the talk of a strong confident man who is demanding respect and knows that he has value and things to do with his life.


----------



## Dadof3

crossbar said:


> Nah, don't respond. She's just trying to draw you into an arguement. I don't get how telling the OMW the truth only tells people that you're cold in bed? That doesn't make any sense. Well, if you didn't know what fog babble looks like! You do now!


Yea - that angle alone makes me think that Ms Sham has a sex addiction. Especially when she says that about her man.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> When you go to get you stuff, make a list of all the important things to get. You want to get in and get out. You don't want to go there a second time. There will be too many triggers in the house.
> 
> Ask the police to make her stay in the backyard. This will reduce any venom spitting.
> 
> Some things you might want to get, if you haven't done it yet:
> 
> 
> 3 years worth of tax returns
> Marriage license
> Your birth certificate
> Your passport
> All the current bills (Your going to want to get your name off of any joint accounts)
> Any medications
> Something with her SSN on it, if you don't know it
> Veterinary info for dogs
> Any firearms (don't let the police see this)
> 
> If she is not watching, get the Wedding album (for burning later) :FIREdevil:
> 
> And go there with this guys attitude.
> 
> Hell's coming with me - YouTube
> 
> One more thing; ask a friend to drive by your house today. She may start tossing your stuff out the door.
> 
> Cypress


His things may very well be gone, destroyed or whatever. 

Mostly I am concerned for his dog if she is not mentally stable.


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> Nah, don't respond. She's just trying to draw you into an arguement. I don't get how telling the OMW the truth only tells people that you're cold in bed? That doesn't make any sense. Well, if you didn't know what fog babble looks like! You do now!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

He is beyond her now. Let her flail about. She knows the truth. She is having a tantrum trying to wrestle back control. His silence is what she needs. Only then can she focus internally and fight her own daemons. She cannot hurt him if he refuses to be hurt. He should not respond to this. She had her chances for reasoning. She is not reasonable. Kinda like Cool Hand Luke. She gets what she gets. She caused this. Not him. He does her no favors or himself by answering her.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, your restraint is phenomenal.

When she said, "That's low" in reference to calling the OMW, I would most definitely have shot this back

"Not as low as f*cking her husband."


----------



## golfergirl

Gabriel said:


> Sham, your restraint is phenomenal.
> 
> When she said, "That's low" in reference to calling the OMW, I would most definitely have shot this back
> 
> "Not as low as f*cking her husband."


There's nothing as annoying as no one to argue with. It must piss her off to no end that she isn't even worth enough to respond to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

golfergirl said:


> There's nothing as annoying as no one to argue with. It must piss her off to no end that she isn't even worth enough to respond to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tend to agree with golfergirl, but I would have such a difficult time not responding with something to the effect of her not caring too much about the poor OMW while her face was in OM's lap. 

Sham is taking the high road and it's pissing his wife off horribly.


----------



## piqued

Sham,
Regarding her text about the OMW..."she didn't deserve that" (or whatever she said) it might be ok to reply. Something simple, but not provocative in any way. This would show her that you are real.

"U R right, she nor I deserved to be hurt and lied to this way. She thanked me repeatedly for the clarity. It's ironic that u now text me feigning concern about her being hurt. Like me, she already was, she just wanted the truth. BTW, As far as I'm concerned there is no war; just had to do what was right. Sorry u see it that way."


----------



## girlfromipanema

piqued said:


> Sham,
> Regarding her text about the OMW..."she didn't deserve that" (or whatever she said) it might be ok to reply. Something simple, but not provocative in any way. This would show her that you are real.
> 
> "U R right, she nor I deserved to be hurt and lied to this way. She thanked me repeatedly for the clarity. It's ironic that u now text me feigning concern about her being hurt. Like me, she already was, she just wanted the truth. BTW, As far as I'm concerned there is no war; just had to do what was right. Sorry u see it that way."


I like this. Also, possibly finish the text by letting her know you're out of town but will be in touch when you return to arrange to pick up your dogs and personal items (plants the idea that you're not wallowing in self pity in some hotel room). I think Catherine had some great ideas yesterday about what you could say when you speak to her. This would still show your strength, which by now, she shouldn't be doubting anyway. However, remaining dark is eating her alive.

Hope you're having some fun today, Sham.


----------



## golfergirl

girlfromipanema said:


> I tend to agree with golfergirl, but I would have such a difficult time not responding with something to the effect of her not caring too much about the poor OMW while her face was in OM's lap.
> 
> Sham is taking the high road and it's pissing his wife off horribly.


Oh I know! I want to jump through the keyboard at her myself! The nervea! The gall! I would have retorted to the 'not working things out' part with, 'are you for f****** real?'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

golfergirl said:


> Oh I know! I want to jump through the keyboard at her myself! The nervea! The gall! I would have retorted to the 'not working things out' part with, 'are you for f****** real?'.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I could be wrong, but given the hour she sent that text to Sham (I think he said 4am) she was probably drunk out of her skull given that she seems to drink a lot.


----------



## Shamwow

piqued said:


> I could be wrong, but given the hour she sent that text to Sham (I think he said 4am) she was probably drunk out of her skull given that she seems to drink a lot.


Probably true, unfortunately. Not gonna do her much good right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shaung

girlfromipanema said:


> I tend to agree with golfergirl, but I would have such a difficult time not responding with something to the effect of her not caring too much about the poor OMW while her face was in OM's lap.
> 
> Sham is taking the high road and it's pissing his wife off horribly.


She is attempting to regain control over the situation by pushing Sham's buttons. The less he says, the more frustrated and Unglued she becomes. Sham is winning the war and she fully realizes it.

She says she is in a 'dark place' and admits she screwed everything up. The gravity what she did to her marriage is dawning on her. She is left to wallow in the wreckage with no support from anybody. Obviously contacting OMW had the desired effect and then some.

She is beginning to see that Sham is far more of a man than she gave credit and he is the alpha in the situation and is calling the shots.


----------



## Entropy3000

golfergirl said:


> There's nothing as annoying as no one to argue with. It must piss her off to no end that she isn't even worth enough to respond to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

shaung said:


> *She is attempting to regain control over the situation by pushing Sham's buttons.* The less he says, the more frustrated and Unglued she becomes. Sham is winning the war and she fully realizes it.
> 
> She says she is in a 'dark place' and admits she screwed everything up. The gravity what she did to her marriage is dawning on her. She is left to wallow in the wreckage with no support from anybody. Obviously contacting OMW had the desired effect and then some.
> 
> *She is beginning to see that Sham is far more of a man than she gave credit and he is the alpha in the situation and is calling the shots.*


Yup. He is being ambivalent with her, which is exasperating to her. Basically though it is not about causing her stress. It is about Sham respecting himself too much to interact with her. She had her chances. There is nothing to be gained by interacting with her.

He does need to get his stuff and his dog. Let his lawyer do his job.

Wow. She is something else. RUNAWAY!!!!


----------



## crossbar

So, she wrote a text stating that Sham called and hurt this woman for NO REASON. Leads me to believe that she doesn't know about the panties yet. She's still under the assumption that he's exactually supposed to believe her text that nothing happened.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Stay dark for the moment, the following may go against what you may currently be thinking or feeling.

Spend a little time and hand write a letter to her: mention you love her, refer to some good memories with her , bring up things that should trigger happy memories for her. Furthermore state therein that you will not standby to be used by her while she in an affair and continues to say derogatory things about you to friends and family. This is the part you may not be in faviour of , I do however suggest you include it in the letter. State that there will be limited contact with her unless she fully commits to a future relationship with you , gives full transparency , and practices radical honesty.

At the moment you are going forward with divorce proceedings and I agree . As time moves forward your thoughts and hers may change , she has until the very last day before you officially divorce to stand up and be a wife who is committed to you, ultimately it will be your decision if you can foregive her betrayal and reconcile or separate .

Leave the letter for her to read or post is so she has to sign for it's receipt.

In the meanwhile assume she is a wayward who will never change and your love for her is lost. Look into yourself , improve those areas where you know you lacked when with her. People will notice the change in you and once the dust has settled so will she. 

This advice will be contrary to what you may think due to what is happening these past few weeks, it leaves a crack open if she fights for you then your future with her may be different .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Eli-Zor said:


> Stay dark for the moment, the following may go against what you may currently be thinking or feeling.
> 
> Spend a little time and hand write a letter to her: mention you love her, refer to some good memories with her , bring up things that should trigger happy memories for her. Furthermore state therein that you will not standby to be used by her while she in an affair and continues to say derogatory things about you to friends and family. This is the part you may not be in faviour of , I do however suggest you include it in the letter. State that there will be limited contact with her unless she fully commits to a future relationship with you , gives full transparency , and practices radical honesty.
> 
> At the moment you are going forward with divorce proceedings and I agree . As time moves forward your thoughts and hers may change , she has until the very last day before you officially divorce to stand up and be a wife who is committed to you, ultimately it will be your decision if you can foregive her betrayal and reconcile or separate .
> 
> Leave the letter for her to read or post is so she has to sign for it's receipt.
> 
> In the meanwhile assume she is a wayward who will never change and your love is for her is lost. Look into yourself , improve those areas where you know you lacked when with her. People will notice the change in you and once the dust has settled so will she.
> 
> This advice will be contrary to what you may think due to what is happening these past few weeks, it leaves a crack open if she fights for you then your future with her may be different .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sham this is Top Notch advice:smthumbup:


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Sham, your restraint is phenomenal.
> 
> When she said, "That's low" in reference to calling the OMW, I would most definitely have shot this back
> 
> "Not as low as f*cking her husband."


Iwas thinking he should show her his concern for her well being as in......... "I'm beginning to be worried about you. So you really believe I'm the one who f*cked her husband?


----------



## Iconoclast

Sham. Excellent work, so far my friend.
Came over from another forum to make a reply. Just want to mention a few things to help your mind.

Plan A or 180, is method of protecting one's self while breaking an affair. It's carrot and stick, the stick usually being exposure.

Plan B or Going Dark, is when A or 180 fail to produce desired results. It's to protect the betrayed spouse from the insanity, but also to give the wayward a taste of life without the betrayed.

But, Plan A/B is a powerful tool to break affair and begin reconciliation.

From what I read here, you are not it Plan A, or B. You're in Plan D. Plan D is divorce.

So, i'd really not worry much about being dark, or maintaining dark, or about any alpha/beta male stuff. It's Irrelevant.

Just go get your stuff when you're prepared. The only reason to stay "Dark" at this point is to deny her the opportunity to blather and yell nonsense at you. She's not ready to talk, she's angry, desperate and needs to lash out.

I also would like you to look up and read a post I read here, perhaps a kind user will find the link. I think it's by Pit of My Stomach. In it he goes into great detail about the Science and Psychology of affairs. It's really important stuff to know. Mix some addictive brain chemistry and cognitive dissonance, and pow, a recipe for crazy. Gives you an objective view.

Also, unleash the hounds, try to get the OM's wife to post over at Marriage Builders. They are very hardcore over there, and will help her through every move.

So in summation, you're in plan D, do what you like, when you're ready.

But be prepared. I give it about a week before she folds and starts begging you to come home.


----------



## F-102

This may be overkill, but, in addition to the cop, perhaps even bring someone from the ASPCA with you, to make sure that the dog(s) were not harmed?


----------



## Eli-Zor

Keep it simple: when you do go home the standard operating procedure is
1. Carry a VAR 2. Take a friend with a camcorder .

She may have changed the locks so have a plan to get in, if she is there and it looks bad call the police and ask for assistance to remove your items. Most police will apply common sense and will wait with you while you pack up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## girlfromipanema

Iconoclast said:


> I also would like you to look up and read a post I read here, perhaps a kind user will find the link. I think it's by Pit of My Stomach. In it he goes into great detail about the Science and Psychology of affairs. It's really important stuff to know. Mix some addictive brain chemistry and cognitive dissonance, and pow, a recipe for crazy. Gives you an objective view.


Here you go - the name of the thread is Never Say Never, posted by Pit of my Stomach. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html


----------



## Gabriel

Iconoclast said:


> But be prepared. I give it about a week before she folds and starts begging you to come home.


I would be surprised if this happens. My bet is she never gives in to Sham. She will be hell bent on punishing him. Until she is able to do that (which she won't, because Sham won't let her), she'll never relent.

Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> Keep it simple: when you do go home standard operating procedure is
> 1. Carry a VAR 2. Take a friend with a camcorder .
> 
> She may have changed the locks so have a plan to get in, if she is there and it looks bad call the police and ask for assistance to remove your items. Most police will apply common sense and will wait with you while you pack up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Since the police told Sham they don't usually show up at this kind of thing I thought he might hire an off duty officer. In our area off duty officers can be hired for various private functions. They can also use their take home cars. 

I also think when it occurs to her she may demand money from him under community property statutes. Recoeding emails could also be tricky. :scratchhead:


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> I would be surprised if this happens. My bet is she never gives in to Sham. She will be hell bent on punishing him. Until she is able to do that (which she won't, because Sham won't let her), she'll never relent.
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.


My gut tells me she's much more fragile than most people think. She's going down hard when the anger/adrenalin wears thin.
But hey , I've been wrong before.


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> So, she wrote a text stating that Sham called and hurt this woman for NO REASON. Leads me to believe that she doesn't know about the panties yet. She's still under the assumption that he's exactually supposed to believe her text that nothing happened.


Not sure, OMW has the lab results, don't know if she had to use them to get results. I told her I was kinda holding them back given my M was over anyway (as the results on my end were damning no matter who the other guy was), but that she should feel free to use everything I sent as she sees fit. I bet I'll be hearing about it from my STBX before too long. And about how sick and ill I must be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Not sure, OMW has the lab results, don't know if she had to use them to get results. I told her I was kinda holding them back given my M was over anyway (as the results on my end were damning no matter who the other guy was), but that she should feel free to use everything I sent as she sees fit. I bet I'll be hearing about it from my STBX before too long. And about how sick and ill I must be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Projection at its finest.

I thought someones suggestion earlier was spot on - something on the lines of not engaging her prior stuff - but more along the lines of "getting her sh*t together, getting real" type of message and then going dark again. 

Maybe even something along the lines of.... "I dont know who YOU are. I will only talk to the sweet woman I married X years ago who wouldn't have cheated and been dishonest with me about it."

I dont know why its bugging me to have some contact that doesn't engage her projection and blameshifting and tells her what u need from her (as her soon to be ex-captain).


----------



## krismimo

I hope you have a decent time, try to have a good time blow off some steam with friends and maybe if you can try not to talk about it. I know what helps me is to talk about my future plans, little by little it always starts with the little things in life. Have a few drinks have a few laughs and just have small talk dont dread on or talk about the situation too much.


----------



## Entropy3000

Sham,

Do what you can to flush this woman from your system. You also have to go through withdrawal. Writing letters about how you used to feel and thinking about all the good stuff, is just going to make this harder and will work against you starting your new life. It just messes with your head.


----------



## DanG

Eli-Zor said:


> Stay dark for the moment, the following may go against what you may currently be thinking or feeling.
> 
> Spend a little time and hand write a letter to her: mention you love her, refer to some good memories with her , bring up things that should trigger happy memories for her. Furthermore state therein that you will not standby to be used by her while she in an affair and continues to say derogatory things about you to friends and family. This is the part you may not be in faviour of , I do however suggest you include it in the letter. State that there will be limited contact with her unless she fully commits to a future relationship with you , gives full transparency , and practices radical honesty.
> 
> At the moment you are going forward with divorce proceedings and I agree . As time moves forward your thoughts and hers may change , she has until the very last day before you officially divorce to stand up and be a wife who is committed to you, ultimately it will be your decision if you can foregive her betrayal and reconcile or separate .
> 
> Leave the letter for her to read or post is so she has to sign for it's receipt.
> 
> In the meanwhile assume she is a wayward who will never change and your love for her is lost. Look into yourself , improve those areas where you know you lacked when with her. People will notice the change in you and once the dust has settled so will she.
> 
> This advice will be contrary to what you may think due to what is happening these past few weeks, it leaves a crack open if she fights for you then your future with her may be different .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll "third" this suggestion. It does leave a crack open. It would demonstrate Sham's dominance over the situation, and definitively place - KEEP! - the onus of positive behaviors on her - It shows that Sham is not making/participating in "war" for destructive purposes. HOWEVER, in her current/immediate state of chemical & emotional turmoil, IMO, it will drive her CRAZY - like throwing water on a witch. BEWARE however, that if indeed she is a contemporary witch (of Oz, rather than the Wizzard of Oz) she may only opportunistically play along. Right now, if I were the OM (or Sham), seeing this "person" as she is behaving, I would be looking for the nearest exit, regardless of how I may have seen her in the past. And, the OM may very well be doing just that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Musical Mind

"This is the part you may not be in faviour of , I do however suggest you include it in the letter. State that there will be limited contact with her unless she fully commits to a future relationship with you , gives full transparency , and practices radical honesty.


Disagree with telling her he will share a future with her. Some people (and I believe Sham to be one of them), absoluely require eclusiviy from the time they feel in love. Infidelity is a deal breaker for me, and I do believe, (My opinion min you), that some people are too weak and afraid of loneliness and therefore stay with their cheating spouse out of fear. Then, they try to convince others to do this, thinking most everyone else wants the same. 

I believe everyone in a marriage deserves to be able to say "My spouse and I have been exclusive with each other intimately since the time we fell in love". At least to me, I can' ever see trying o live my life with a spouse that I can NEVER share exclusivity again with.

You watch a movie, subject of infidelity comes up, hurtful, painful, you watch them around other men and are constantly reminded. but many people are too afraid to move on in to a new life so they are willing t0 sacrifice that special closeness that exclusivity, trust, and the sacred bond are based on. 

The things this woman has done are dire, calculating, and self absorbed. Sham will be MUCH happier in my opinion with starting a new life, and next time he falls in love he will once again start down that path and he'll be able to know that the woman he's with has been exclusive with him since they fell in love. I see Sham as that type man. He deserves that exclusivity and sacred trust and he can never have it with his stbx, and I think he would not truly be happy without that special bond. I also believe him to be a real man, look at the way he has taken command of everything around him. He has taken control, that's how a real man deals with crisis. Sham, as any man, will tell you that doesn't mean he doesn't have fear and anguish, he just has the inner strength to proceed through the hell, and I think that's exactly what he has done, and I doubt he would ever be happy in his heart stopping short of starting a new life and someday finding someone who he will know has never been unfaithful with him.

Walk until you are free Sham, no need to say to her you want her to commit to you as your wife after she has already broken the bonds of matrimony forever. I believe it would eat at you like a cancer, and I don't see you being too weak to demand better of your marriage. That special bond of exclusivity is gone forever, if it matters to you inside, then there is one clear path for people that feel that way, me included.


----------



## Halien

I'll take a different approach, but I'm only intending to suggest that it is important to ultimately let her know where you stand before making many assumptions about how she feels.

There is still just lots of speculation about what she must be thinking, which tends to become the new reality, in a sense. I think its key to think about what you have observed, Sham, when going forward. There was tremendous amount of manipulation going on from her in the past, where she was completely convinced that you would take her word at face value. For her, leaving without confronting her could be taken as hope that your anger will die down and you'll eventually come back. For somebody who was convinced that she controlled the situation, your silence can be just seen as hiding, or even a tantrum period. Regardless of what the silence on your end implies about who is in control, nobody can tell. Her comments about war can be prodding just because she is convinced that you won't stand up to her, and she's just warning you that her patience is wearing thin. 

Lots of speculation. That's all I'm suggesting. She should intuit the new Sham, but she just may be desperately clinging to the hope that this will go away. Besides, she might be convinced that you should see that you somehow pushed her into this situation, if she is still blame shifting. Who knows.

Suggesting reconciliation gestures before letting her know what you think could just prove to her that you are finally weakening in resolve, because there is no way short of talking to her to tell what she thinks of your absence.

Just don't build a narrative about what is going on with her until after you have a chance to talk to her, or send a declarative message about your intent.

Just an opinion, and likely even a wrong one at that.

Whatever you do, do it on your terms.


----------



## the guy

I thinks it BS that MM makes the assumtion that LS.....loyal H go back to WW b/c there scared. 

Infidelity is way to broad to generalize a statement like that, relationship are way to complicated to say things like that.

Having the view and perspective about being exclusive is great, everyone is intitled, but making statement like the one MM made is counter productive to a couples marriage and the folks that come here for help.

So in short I disagree that men are to scared so they R.
IMHO men are to scared to loose there marriage so they beg for it that I believ is unhealthy but when R presents its self, I belive a M should be given every chance possible until all avenues are exhausted. 

I also would like to add tha Manwow has made several attempts and all avenues *may* be exhuasted for R.

Lets face it Mrs.Sham had her chance but she choose the OM.


----------



## MrQuatto

Folks, Sham has been pretty clear through most of this that he is not interested in R in any way, shape or form. What was done was a deal breaker. So while the advice is good, I think it is a wasted effort as it is not his intention.

Just my $.02

Q~


----------



## Musical Mind

That's right, that's the way i see it, and that's why I think it's kind of strange to see several keep on with this R thing like they want to make their own selves feel better about accepting that stuff. No disagreement about it really, it's obvious that many spouses stay married even when it is more painful than divorce because they are simply not the stronger type personalities that can face starting a new life alone at first. I have known many of these people in my personal life, and they try to make their own selves feel better about their fear by trying to convince others to accept past infidelity in their situations. 

I believe you either feel you are worthy enough to have exclusivity and that special bond in your marriage or you aren't. I am speaking of the experiences i have seen of close friends and family members. I have never known a single BS who has really felt great about their marriage after infidelity, yet they stay in the marriage because they simply don't have the internal strength to start over, the strength to stand up and claim their right to demand their marriage partner be exclusive with them.





MrQuatto said:


> Folks, Sham has been pretty clear through most of this that he is not interested in R in any way, shape or form. What was done was a deal breaker. So while the advice is good, I think it is a wasted effort as it is not his intention.
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> Q~


----------



## AFEH

Sham,

You asked a while back something like “What is the purpose of exposing your wife to the work place etc. etc?”. It is put forward that exposure is the quickest way to end the affair and that is why it’s recommended. But it seems to me it seriously backfires, not the least because it makes the disloyal wife so very much more bitter and resentful than she ever was before. Not exactly a good thing to have such a screaming banshee of a wife on your hands when attempting a reconciliation.

Due to their religious beliefs there are some that put the MARRIAGE above the people in it. “What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”. This is even to the extent of exposing the disloyal spouse to all and sundry which I personally see as a modern day stoning of the biblical days “adulterous infidel wife”. But this time the stones don’t kill the adulterer, they do however leave them immensely bitter and resentful. Plus it kind of destroys whatever dignity, self-respect and self-esteem the loyal spouse has left to such an extent that the “process” has a letter to be sent to “reclaim” these things which of course doesn’t work.

My wife had an affair some 30 years ago. I took it on as a Man’s business and I told not a single soul, least of all parents and in-laws let alone extended family and friends. I had two young sons at the time and wished us all to stay together so I dealt with it in my own way so my wife was not ostracised by my family or anyone else.

I’m sorry you have found yourself in this situation. But you are doing really well, superbly well. There is a lot of empathy, compassion and dignity in the way you are going about this and you will maintain and even improve on your self-respect and self-esteem by keeping on the course you have instinctively chosen. Carry on trusting your gut Sham, it hasn’t let you down.

Bob


----------



## aug

dgtal said:


> Unless it is extremately necessary. I had to let our 20 yo daughter know about it (2 years later) after a near-violent confrontation with the OM in a local restaurant and she was wondering who the hell dad is fighting with? I just recently let our 28yo son know about it just because he's facing the same betrayal from his wife and he is divorcing.
> 
> What about the OM?:
> *An OM that doesn't back off of a married woman and participates in the destruction of a family is no better than a rapist, a child molester, or a child pornographer* He should be exposed widely


I dont think kids are that ignorant. They may not know the exact details but they sure as heck knew something was wrong between the wife and you. Do you wonder if your son may have learnt a lesson about picking a better wife for himself if he had known the damage an affair can cause a marriage, instead of learning firsthand himself now?

Your comment about the OM does not make sense to me because your wife partook of the affair herself freely. She also participated in the destruction of a family and, therefore, "is no better than a rapist, a child molester, or a child pornographer".

The fact that your family is the way it is now is not because of your wife but, most likely, because of you.

Sham needs to do what is comfortable for himself. We can only guess. But he did state in the beginning of this thread that he and his wife had an agreement that infidelity is a deal breaker.

It's too early in this process for him to decide. He needs to heal from his current situation, and when he does he can decide then. In the meantime, I believe he needs to keep with the 180.


----------



## aug

AFEH said:


> Sham,
> 
> You asked a while back something like “What is the purpose of exposing your wife to the work place etc. etc?”. It is put forward that exposure is the quickest way to end the affair and that is why it’s recommended. But it seems to me it seriously backfires, not the least because it makes the disloyal wife so very much more bitter and resentful than she ever was before. Not exactly a good thing to have such a screaming banshee of a wife on your hands when attempting a reconciliation.
> 
> Due to their religious beliefs there are some that put the MARRIAGE above the people in it. “What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”. This is even to the extent of exposing the disloyal spouse to all and sundry which I personally see as a modern day stoning of the biblical days “adulterous infidel wife”. But this time the stones don’t kill the adulterer, they do however leave them immensely bitter and resentful. Plus it kind of destroys whatever dignity, self-respect and self-esteem the loyal spouse has left to such an extent that the “process” has a letter to be sent to “reclaim” these things which of course doesn’t work.
> 
> My wife had an affair some 30 years ago. I took it on as a Man’s business and I told not a single soul, least of all parents and in-laws let alone extended family and friends. I had two young sons at the time and wished us all to stay together so I dealt with it in my own way so my wife was not ostracised by my family or anyone else.
> 
> I’m sorry you have found yourself in this situation. But you are doing really well, superbly well. There is a lot of empathy, compassion and dignity in the way you are going about this and you will maintain and even improve on your self-respect and self-esteem by keeping on the course you have instinctively chosen. Carry on trusting your gut Sham, it hasn’t let you down.
> 
> Bob


Some 30 years ago -- that would be the late 70's or at the end of the 70's. The internet was not around then and there were no forums like this that allow collective experience and wisdom to gather.

Just curious, what consequences did your wife affair have? I think Sham has handled himself quite well (given our one-sided view) under the enormous pressure he is under right now. And if he want to expose more, that's up to him. And he has every right to.


----------



## ManDup

Musical Mind said:


> That's right, that's the way i see it, and that's why I think it's kind of strange to see several keep on with this R thing like they want to make their own selves feel better about accepting that stuff. No disagreement about it really, it's obvious that many spouses stay married even when it is more painful than divorce because they are simply not the stronger type personalities that can face starting a new life alone at first. I have known many of these people in my personal life, and they try to make their own selves feel better about their fear by trying to convince others to accept past infidelity in their situations.
> 
> I believe you either feel you are worthy enough to have exclusivity and that special bond in your marriage or you aren't. I am speaking of the experiences i have seen of close friends and family members. I have never known a single BS who has really felt great about their marriage after infidelity, yet they stay in the marriage because they simply don't have the internal strength to start over, the strength to stand up and claim their right to demand their marriage partner be exclusive with them.


Certainly I went the way of not accepting the infidelity and being chosen second so I agree with this personally. Also, I don't accept infidelity in any way shape or form, and I agree ShamWow probably doesn't either. For me it is a complete deal breaker. However, I do think reconciliation may be possible or desirable sometimes. 

But before any reconciliation occurs, I think especially men should learn two things: 1) what it is like to be alone. Namely, that you won't die. 2) that there are many many fish in the sea and that things aren't the same as when you were an awkward young single man. After all, you only have to do better than your WW. 

So I think that no reconciliation should happen until the man learns and firmly believes these two facts. That takes away the fear factor from the process. I started dating before my D was final, which I recommend doing only if you are casual about it and trying to figure out the two facts above. What I discovered was that between new women I was meeting, and even some of my ex'es friends, there was a long line of women who wanted ManDup. And I put my ex at the very back of that line.


----------



## ManDup

dgtal said:


> <snip>
> 
> What about the OM?:
> *An OM that doesn't back off of a married woman and participates in the destruction of a family is no better than a rapist, a child molester, or a child pornographer* He should be exposed widely


:iagree:

Also, the definition of rape is non-consensual sex. Would anyone consent to having sex with their spouse while they are in a secret affair with someone else?


----------



## tacoma

ManDup said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Also, the definition of rape is non-consensual sex. Would anyone consent to having sex with their spouse while they are in a secret affair with someone else?



People consent to sex with their known to be cheating spouses all the time.

When you begin to seriously compare an affair to a rape your view has gotten far too skewed to be reasonable.


----------



## Shamwow

Good night out. Great time. Hung with my buddy and a couple of ladies (no worries, just playing pool and having fun). Noticed some alpha come out in me, at first just for fun, then it was easy. Flipping s**t, doing my own thing...later at night we arrived at a bar just after the kitchen closed, my party was dejected and went to table. I then went straight back and talked the girl behind the bar into opening it for something simple to help us out. Not my usual skillset. (Yes, she was tipped handsomely) Crazy dude started hanging by our table and talking incessantly, after noticing the ladies getting annoyed, I shooed him away without a conflict and kept my cool. Ladies looked at me like I was the man. Fun stuff, turns out some of that confidence I've been building the last few weeks and months will serve me just fine going forward. None of this is a big deal, point is it was a great time and gave me a boost. Nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> Good night out. Great time. Hung with my buddy and a couple of ladies (no worries, just playing pool and having fun). Noticed some alpha come out in me, at first just for fun, then it was easy. Flipping s**t, doing my own thing...later at night we arrived at a bar just after the kitchen closed, my party was dejected and went to table. I then went straight back and talked the girl behind the bar into opening it for something simple to help us out. Not my usual skillset. Crazy dude started hanging by our table and talking incessantly, after noticing the ladies getting annoyed, I shooed him away without a conflict and kept my cool. Ladies looked at me like I was the man. Fun stuff, turns out some of that confidence I've been building the last few weeks and months will serve me just fine going forward. None of this is a big deal, point is it was a great time and gave me a boost. Nice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Enjoy your Weekend and make the best of this Sham 

You are a great inspiration :smthumbup:


----------



## Shamwow

For the record, I have no interest in exposing my STBX's affair to any higher level than I've done already. It's already nuclear for her, no need to pile on the shame, it's already there for her to deal with. No contact from her yesterday, initial shock tantrum complete. We'll see how things go getting my stuff. Prob won't be fun, but I'll make it as quick and painless as I can. She goes nuts, I'll (respectfully) treat her like a child and tell her what will happen while I'm there, and try to keep it at that. Sure there will be some curveballs though...

VAR and witnesses will help. Won't bring my car, just a truck and a friend's van. Will show up with a bunch of preassembled boxes and a handful of storage tubs so we can can just throw stuff in quick and load it out. I'll sort it all out later.

Back to the weekend, hope you are all relaxing where you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

BTW - sent her an email on Fri night with my attorney cc'd reminding her that everything in the house was documented on video as of the night I left, and anything missing or damaged will be noted upon my return for my things.

This of course produced a minor hailstorm of emails from her saying of course nothing was damaged or missing, calling me postal, and asking how I can f*** with her life anymore (this was the same night I exposed to OMW, so she was in the mood). I didn't respond to any of them. She has since calmed down, or so it seems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow enjoy your weekend for sure you've earned it.

Please make sure to steel yourself emotionally and mentally for the confrontation with her.
You've been dark and somewhat insulated from her for awhile.
Seeing her face to face after all that has happened could be more taxing than you anticipate.

Prepare yourself for a ****storm and be ready to face it with the same strength of character you've shown dealing with everything else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I'm curious has the mail and texting gone up or down with the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

MrQuatto said:


> Folks, Sham has been pretty clear through most of this that he is not interested in R in any way, shape or form. What was done was a deal breaker. So while the advice is good, I think it is a wasted effort as it is not his intention.
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> Q~


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> For the record, I have no interest in exposing my STBX's affair to any higher level than I've done already. It's already nuclear for her, no need to pile on the shame, it's already there for her to deal with. No contact from her yesterday, initial shock tantrum complete. We'll see how things go getting my stuff. Prob won't be fun, but I'll make it as quick and painless as I can. She goes nuts, I'll (respectfully) treat her like a child and tell her what will happen while I'm there, and try to keep it at that. Sure there will be some curveballs though...
> 
> VAR and witnesses will help. Won't bring my car, just a truck and a friend's van. Will show up with a bunch of preassembled boxes and a handful of storage tubs so we can can just throw stuff in quick and load it out. I'll sort it all out later.
> 
> Back to the weekend, hope you are all relaxing where you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> I'm curious has the mail and texting gone up or down with the OM?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just checked...it's almost nonexistent. Guess he either got a new email and phone or is in the NC doghouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Once omw showed texts as evidence I'm sure he stopped using that venue. 

Did you tell omw how you got texts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

You the man "Manwow"

You my friend have a good......pulse for this, your behavior and engagement are text book.
Your rules of engagement have payed off when dealling with this (your wife)type of personality.

Well played sir.

What about the R......just kidding LOL LOL


----------



## smarti36

the guy said:


> You the man "Manwow"
> 
> You my friend have a good......pulse for this, your behavior and engagement are text book.
> Your rules of engagement have payed off when dealling with this (your wife)type of personality.
> 
> Well played sir.
> 
> What about the R......just kidding LOL LOL


SERIOUSLY!!! Check freaking mate!!!


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> BTW - sent her an email on Fri night with my attorney cc'd reminding her that everything in the house was documented on video as of the night I left, and anything missing or damaged will be noted upon my return for my things.
> 
> This of course produced a minor hailstorm of emails from her saying of course nothing was damaged or missing, calling me postal, and asking how I can f*** with her life anymore (this was the same night I exposed to OMW, so she was in the mood). I didn't respond to any of them. She has since calmed down, or so it seems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Attaboy, Manwow! Ya da man! Now THATS alpha! She knows now u aren't hiding and that u have nuthin' more to say....


----------



## Dadof3

Dadof3 said:


> Attaboy, Manwow! Ya da man! Now THATS alpha! She knows now u aren't hiding and that u have nuthin' more to say....


I think it would be a safe bet to say that she actually expected u to come back to her and R and is totally not comprehending the scope of her betrayal and its effect on you.


----------



## girlfromipanema

"Manwow"!! Love it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall

You go boyyyy!


----------



## the guy

Dad- Thats what makes it so text book IMHO his action , not his words, show the scope of her betrayal and its effects.

Will she comprehend...well that remains to be seen. I have a feeling he will have to explain it to her....only to let her twist it around to make him look bad and her in the pain.


Yes, yes, yes, it should be the other way around put thats not her. 

We will see


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> Once omw showed texts as evidence I'm sure he stopped using that venue.
> 
> Did you tell omw how you got texts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I did (it was a surreal phone call at first to say the least). I know I told her it was from backup log though, just not that I got it from our backup drive (instead of directly off her computer). I also told her I'd show her how to find it on her end if she wanted it.

A few days ago OM had mentioned to my STBX in an email that I must almost certainly be logging her texts, so he prob presumes I put a logger on her phone or something. Which is great, because it makes her doubly concerned about what else I might know. Of course, at this point, what's the diff, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

The only thing that will confirm if it went deeper underground is the VAR plant.
The only diff. is if OMW wants help on her end..... if they are still in contact and what not.
Other then that I have no other idea on why to continue with survailance.

Typicly survallance is what one would do to confirm a commitment to the M, this is not the case.

Enless you want to call the DOD and see if they can point a satilite at her house so you can listen in. LOL


----------



## F-102

Shamwow, Slapchop, HA!

Now I'm thinking of that other stuff that's sold on TV-what was it called?

Oh, yeah...

KABOOM!


----------



## tacoma

the guy said:


> The only thing that will confirm if it went deeper underground is the VAR plant.
> The only diff. is if OMW wants help on her end..... if they are still in contact and what not.
> Other then that I have no other idea on why to continue with survailance.


He doesn`t need to keep track of her anymore and in fact should cease before it becomes a legal matter.
So far all he`s done is bug his own house and use info from his own machines.Once he moves out it becomes a different case entirely.

The VAR at the house could prove useful in divorce proceedings, if not for Sham then definitely for the OMW.It sounds like she`s going to nail the OM`s ass in her At-Fault state.

IMO Sham should continue to give her anything he has that she could use.

Trashing this ****ers life will be far more satisfying than beating his ass anyway.

Don`t give me any holier than thou anti-vengeance rhetoric either.
There are times when it needs to be done and this is one of them.

Have you given thought to what the environment might be like when you do go get your stuff and see her Sham?
Who you might take with you?
What vehicle?
When?


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> The only thing that will confirm if it went deeper underground is the VAR plant.
> The only diff. is if OMW wants help on her end..... if they are still in contact and what not.
> Other than that I have no other idea on why to continue with surveillance


Agreed, I see no point either. Now it would feel invasive on my part. Before it was to determine the extent of her lies and unfaithfulness. In the vein of letting her go, that must go too. I do still check my bank/CC/website logins daily to make sure they are still intact though. Email, text records and FB is unnecessary and even unhealthy now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## piqued

Shamwow said:


> Agreed, I see no point either. Now it would feel invasive on my part. Before it was to determine the extent of her lies and unfaithfulness. In the vein of letting her go, that must go too. I do still check my bank/CC/website logins daily to make sure they are still intact though. Email, text records and FB is unnecessary and even unhealthy now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, you are exactly right. That portion is over (other than if anything is on the VAR). From here on out I think the best thing is to just not give a d*mn what her private communications are. Besides, continuing surveillance can only lead to trouble. As you've alluded, it's time to move forward, not back.


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> Agreed, I see no point either. Now it would feel invasive on my part. Before it was to determine the extent of her lies and unfaithfulness. In the vein of letting her go, that must go too. I do still check my bank/CC/website logins daily to make sure they are still intact though. Email, text records and FB is unnecessary and even unhealthy now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Not so sure what to share with OMW.

Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails? : Internet Business Law

INTERNET LAW - Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails?

There have been people charged for intercepting Emails, even spouses. Don't know how they turned out. Check it out. May have to keep the whole thing under the table.


----------



## Shamwow

chapparal said:


> Not so sure what to share with OMW.
> 
> Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails? : Internet Business Law
> 
> INTERNET LAW - Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails?
> 
> There have been people charged for intercepting Emails, even spouses. Don't know how they turned out. Check it out. May have to keep the whole thing under the table.


True, but I am the registered admin for our websites and email. Not too concerned.

And over the years she has asked me to go into her email to grab something for her or change a setting many times. Kinda sets a precedent of familiarity.

Basically, I did no hacking. And we've known each others' passwords for 6-7 years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Shamwow said:


> True, but I am the registered admin for our websites and email. Not too concerned.
> 
> And over the years she has asked me to go into her email to grab something for her or change a setting many times. Kinda sets a precedent of familiarity.
> 
> Basically, I did no hacking. And we've known each others' passwords for 6-7 years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent.........I was just getting worried. This crossed my mind yesterday and started thinking it could be trouble. Justice doesn't seem to be much of an issue in the legal system anymore.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Agreed, I see no point either. Now it would feel invasive on my part. Before it was to determine the extent of her lies and unfaithfulness. In the vein of letting her go, that must go too. I do still check my bank/CC/website logins daily to make sure they are still intact though. Email, text records and FB is unnecessary and even unhealthy now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have now progressed to the next major level. Congratulations. This is a most healthy attitude sir. 

:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> Not so sure what to share with OMW.
> 
> Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails? : Internet Business Law
> 
> INTERNET LAW - Eavesdropping Your Spouse's E-mails?
> 
> There have been people charged for intercepting Emails, even spouses. Don't know how they turned out. Check it out. May have to keep the whole thing under the table.


Interesting at best. I would never let this stop me form doing what I needed to do however. That said I think it is time for Sham to step away from this as the purpose is now moot.


----------



## Dadof3

Entropy3000 said:


> Interesting at best. I would never let this stop me form doing what I needed to do however. That said I think it is time for Sham to step away from this as the purpose is now moot.


Would have been funny if ManWow would have sent postcards to WW during his trip. Nothing else - just to let her know he was livin' it up! without her.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dadof3 said:


> Would have been funny if ManWow would have sent postcards to WW during his trip. Nothing else - just to let her know he was livin' it up! without her.


Oh, yeah, all sorts of possibilities. He could have streamed her entire email to a large group of people so they could all enjoy the drama. Not sayinghe should have but he could have wreaked all sorts of havoc if he was a bad dude.


----------



## Dadof3

Entropy3000 said:


> Oh, yeah, all sorts of possibilities. He could have streamed her entire email to a large group of people so they could all enjoy the drama. Not sayinghe should have but he could have wreaked all sorts of havoc if he was a bad dude.


I'm not sayin' that, I'm just saying she can watch and wallow in pity and see what she's missing.


----------



## Catherine602

Sham I think you have figured out what you want to do. All that is left is having an effective dialogue with her. Perhaps you should take on a posture that let's her know you are not to be messed with. She is still under the impression that you will cower. . A script and controlling the interaction may help. 

I think continued spying will only hurt and not help.. I can think of only one reason to continue and that is to keep abrest of her plans. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

dgtal said:


> Comments by Aug:
> 
> 1.	Your comment about the OM does not make sense to me because your wife partook of the affair herself freely. She also participated in the destruction of a family and, therefore, "is no better than a rapist, a child molester, or a child pornographer".
> 2.	The fact that your family is the way it is now is not because of your wife but, most likely, because of you.
> #1---->Parially dissagree, you need to read below.
> #2----> I dissagree!!! One or the other, not both. I’m not blaming myself for my wife dirty decision.
> 
> ...[rest deleted]...


I reread my comment #2 and see how it can be interpret another way. I did not phrase my thought properly.

I meant to say the way your family is now (intact as before) is due to your decision to keep the family together despite the hurt and damage your wife caused.

The labels you applied to the OM equally applies to your wife -- especially if we view both as persons with free choice of will.

So, in relationship to Sham, any choice he makes he has to live with.


----------



## ManDup

tacoma said:


> People consent to sex with their known to be cheating spouses all the time.
> 
> When you begin to seriously compare an affair to a rape your view has gotten far too skewed to be reasonable.


I would not so consent. People consent to overpowering men all the time too, as in "no no no oh yes". There's a reason that's a stereotype. It's still rape.

Why is rape such a big deal, anyway? Historically, because the woman loses control of her reproductive rights. Likewise cuckolding. I claim they are roughly equivalent.


----------



## ManDup

Dadof3 said:


> Would have been funny if ManWow would have sent postcards to WW during his trip. Nothing else - just to let her know he was livin' it up! without her.


Why split up if you still hate each other?


----------



## Conrad

I'm with Catherine.

What else could you possibly need to know?

And, why would you care?

It's like this:

If you were to reconcile, she's already been with this clown how many times? Let's say she bangs him another month or two before figuring it out? Does it matter? What if she moves on to someone else before figuring it out? Does it matter?

She's already done PLENTY for you to cut the cord if infidelity is your boundary.

Let me give you her view:

She has now lost a HUGE amount of control and security. Women don't do real well with losing those two. That's why she's so totally upset.

It was a huge mistake. And, she now has 2 choices:

1) Take responsibility (which she doesn't want to admit how much she behaved like a dirtbag)

2) Convince the world - and you - that you really suck. Then she's "guilt free" because you are such a loathesome creature.

I wish her "lots of luck" with #2

There's no way she can succeed.



Catherine602 said:


> Sham I think you have figured out what you want to do. All that is left is having an effective dialogue with her. Perhaps you should take on a posture that let's her know you are not to be messed with. She is still under the impression that you will cower. . A script and controlling the interaction may help.
> 
> I think continued spying will only hurt and not help.. I can think of only one reason to continue and that is to keep abrest of her plans.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jenaa

ManDup said:


> I would not so consent. People consent to overpowering men all the time too, as in "no no no oh yes". There's a reason that's a stereotype. It's still rape.
> 
> Why is rape such a big deal, anyway? Historically, because the woman loses control of her reproductive rights. Likewise cuckolding. I claim they are roughly equivalent.


I think you're a little off on why rape is such a "big deal".
Take a sec to picture yourself overpowered in a prison shower type scenario. 
and earler someone compared to child molestation? You all might want to check yourself here. geesh


----------



## ManDup

jenaa said:


> I think you're a little off on why rape is such a "big deal".
> Take a sec to picture yourself overpowered in a prison shower type scenario.


By a woman? Meh.
 Sorry for the threadjack. I [guess I should have] started a fresh one for this controversial subject. Back to your regularly scheduled shamwow.

New thread here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/31194-cuckolding-rape.html


----------



## tacoma

Hey guys let`s start another thread or just drop the "Rape" threadjack before it runs way OT.

Edit:

Must remember to read the entire thread before responding.

Didn`t see your post mandup thank you!


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

How are things going?

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

dgtal said:


> ^^^^ Sham, did you read any "suspicious" email/message during the past 6-7 years practicing "transparence" (accessing her accounts, etc)? Or it just happened all of the sudden?
> 
> I'm asking 'cause thats what it may contributed to her "vulnerability" to be nailed by that *parasite* OM ---> lack of limitations. Tolerating things that back then were not considered serious threats and let to her unfaithfulness. Things that we (men) don't pay attention and let them happens because we trusted our wives.


Nothing suspicious over the years...only the last month or so ( though it had been going on at least six weeks before that)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> How are things going?
> 
> Cypress


Okay, she's out at the volleyball thing. I stopped in and grabbed the VAR. It clearly didn't record as much as I'd like (only like 2 hours, though that's prob spread out for a while due to VA function). First few minutes show a lot of things being thrown in the trash, glass breaking, etc, and "cheery" phone call w a friend about work. But she did mention OM coming out to visit the week before Vegas, and that some of her colleagues found out/suspected they had sex...some were really pissed at her about it. Then she laughed it off and said she didn't care. Do I wanna hear any more of this folks?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Shamwow said:


> Okay, she's out at the volleyball thing. I stopped in and grabbed the VAR. It clearly didn't record as much as I'd like (only like 2 hours, though that's prob spread out for a while due to VA function). First few minutes show a lot of things being thrown in the trash, glass breaking, etc, and "cheery" phone call w a friend about work. But she did mention OM coming out to visit the week before Vegas, and that some of her colleagues found out/suspected they had sex...some were really pissed at her about it. Then she laughed it off and said she didn't care. Do I wanna hear any more of this folks?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know shouldn't hear anymore but....... If it was me it would be hard not to hear it once.


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

I would listen to it once. You may hear some future plans.

Cypress


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You really should listen to it at least once Sham.

I know it isn`t easy.

Actually two hours on a VAR could be quite a bit of recording.


----------



## the guy

Tough call,
I suggest you don't, hang on to it for future refrence.

Use it when needed, its my take, right now you have all the question you need answered, so one arises (a question) then listen to it it my provide a missing piece down the road.


----------



## the guy

Last time.....well one of the only times you contacted her she told you she wasn't damaging anything?

What did she trash? it could mount to a dollor value during the divorce, especially with the vidoe work you did.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, does this mean you grabbed all your stuff, too? The dog?

At least we know she didn't change the locks. Was stuff of yours broken?


----------



## aug

Listen to the rest of the recording now. Let it be part of the recovering process. You may also hear her future plan.

If you listen to it later in the future, it may trigger your emotions and anger.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm guessing you didn't check to see if she synced her phone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Mainly checked the state of things. Nothing of mine missing or broken that I can tell. Maybe the glass was the pile of wine bottles she acrued going into the recycling bin. Both dogs are still there. Man it was good to see them.

Will be moving out on Wed night, don't plan to avoid her for that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm guessing you didn't check to see if she synced her phone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, done with that mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Probably for the best
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrQuatto

Shamwow said:


> Nope, done with that mess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

At this point, it doesn't serve much purpose other than spying. Knowing her game plan does have some advantages but in certain areas, having given her the papers means that the divirce started at that point. Further spying could cause legel issues, you dont want.

One piece of advice I would give is to reherse your discussion you are going to have with her on wed and think of the craziest effin direction she could go with any sytatement you make. That way it will be hard to be caught off guard. 

You know how to handle going there, IE, VAR, witnesses, remaining calm, etc. But one other bit is that you should do a minor work out before you go. This will help to settle your nerves and keep you centered and less likely to have super anxiety. Plus, it will warm you up for the labor part.

Q~


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Have your VAR on you when you go Wednesday. Hopefully, you will have lots of friends there to help you. How is the OMW doing?

Cypress


----------



## Entropy3000

ManDup said:


> I would not so consent. People consent to overpowering men all the time too, as in "no no no oh yes". There's a reason that's a stereotype. It's still rape.
> 
> Why is rape such a big deal, anyway? Historically, because the woman loses control of her reproductive rights. Likewise cuckolding. I claim they are roughly equivalent.


I would agree that to many men this is as bad as being raped.


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> Have your VAR on you when you go Wednesday. Hopefully, you will have lots of friends there to help you. How is the OMW doing?
> 
> Cypress


Will have a VAR on me, and will have three friends with me...one she hardly knows (she never liked hanging with him and his wife, so he and I just get together once in a while), and two that she knows well but are playing the neutral card at the moment. Figure the last two would be good for if she feels the need to trash me and complain, either one could stay with her, listen, hell even claim to AGREE with her for all I care in that situation, and deflect the direct attention from me and the other guy while we pack and haul as quickly as possible. Covers all bases. Also shows her they're still MY friends too. Double edged sword.

Will give her a heads up before we arrive so she doesn't feel blindsided by the visit.

Think this sounds reasonable?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Okay, she's out at the volleyball thing. I stopped in and grabbed the VAR. It clearly didn't record as much as I'd like (only like 2 hours, though that's prob spread out for a while due to VA function). First few minutes show a lot of things being thrown in the trash, glass breaking, etc, and "cheery" phone call w a friend about work. But she did mention OM coming out to visit the week before Vegas, and that some of her colleagues found out/suspected they had sex...*some were really pissed at her about it.* Then she laughed it off and said she didn't care. Do I wanna hear any more of this folks?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I could see that for sure.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Will have a VAR on me, and will have three friends with me...one she hardly knows (she never liked hanging with him and his wife, so he and I just get together once in a while), and two that she knows well but are playing the neutral card at the moment. Figure the last two would be good for if she feels the need to trash me and complain, either one could stay with her, listen, and deflect the direct attention from me and the other guy while we pack and haul as quickly as possible. Covers all bases.
> 
> Will give her a heads up before we Artie so she doesn't feel blindsided by the visit.
> 
> Think this sounds reasonable?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would recommend that you give her an hour notice, and to keep her off guard, show up 1/2 hr earlier than that.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dadof3 said:


> I would recommend that you give her an hour notice, and to keep her off guard, show up 1/2 hr earlier than that.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> Have your VAR on you when you go Wednesday. Hopefully, you will have lots of friends there to help you. How is the OMW doing?
> 
> Cypress


Haven't heard from OMW since Friday night (we texted some a few hours after our initial talk, after she got OM to admit PA with my wife). I will leave her be unless she wants to talk, though I will need to contact her within two weeks to see if she still has any interest in running DNA on the lab sample, they said they'd hold it for a couple weeks. Given she got the confession she needed, guessing it won't be necessary...but once that sample is gone it's gone, so I should probably check in before that happens just in case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Ya timing is everything, I like Dadof3'e idea, but something say just show up. 

I'm think this will give her no time to prepare what she has to say or ......give her some time to think and prepare to say what she wants to say..........IDK dam if you do dam if you don't.

What it be better for her give her time to prepare or not.

Maybe she has enought time and she has already came up with what she wants to say and it wont matter.


Final answer..............give her a hours notice.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Ya timing is everything, I like Dadof3'e idea, but something say just show up.
> 
> I'm think this will give her no time to prepare what she has to say or ......give her some time to think and prepare to say what she wants to say..........IDK dam if you do dam if you don't.
> 
> What it be better for her give her time to prepare or not.
> 
> Maybe she has enought time and she has already came up with what she wants to say and it wont matter.
> 
> 
> Final answer..............give her a hours notice.


Don't really care what her plan is to say to me. I mean, sure...I do deep down, but as far as what I know and how I know she's treated this whole situation, hopefully it will be much easier than before to control the meeting and get my crap out. Like I said, if she goes into trash mode, fine. She already has (at least to me and a few friends). She can try to say whatever she wants to anyone there...and I'll warn them that she may be totally calm and cool and it'll be easy, or she may lay into me.

I'll tell them that if she goes with the latter, I will handle it myself (personally thinking using "the hand" and then cutting her off and saying "I'm not here to argue, I'm here to get my things. This is not war, this is simply us moving on with our lives. If you want to talk with me rationally and honestly at some point, you know my number. Meantime, just let me move my things and we'll be in touch as the D process goes forward.") If she still freaks after that or says "What are you, Dr. Phil now? F*** you, you limp-d**k little p***y!", then I guess I'll tell her to leave until we're done. If she doesn't, then a friend can step in and listen to her rip me apart while me and the other guy finish up. (should be quite enlightening to the friend that listens to her tirade)

And then get back to moving as fast as possible.

Also, if she does blow up at me that'll tell me she hasnt spoken with a lawyer yet. Clock will be ticking for her.


----------



## Stonewall

Shamwow said:


> Haven't heard from OMW since Friday night (we texted some a few hours after our initial talk, after she got OM to admit PA with my wife). I will leave her be unless she wants to talk, though I will need to contact her within two weeks to see if she still has any interest in running DNA on the lab sample, they said they'd hold it for a couple weeks. Given she got the confession she needed, guessing it won't be necessary...but once that sample is gone it's gone, so I should probably check in before that happens just in case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham,

While they have a viable sample; it would be wise for you to get the dna fingerprint. You may need it at some point and you will never get an opportunity again. Better safe than sorry!!!


----------



## Shamwow

Stonewall said:


> Sham,
> 
> While they have a viable sample; it would be wise for you to get the dna fingerprint. You may need it at some point and you will never get an opportunity again. Better safe than sorry!!!


I see your point, but can't really justify another 600 bucks on something like that right now, esp when all that really matters to me is that it was not me (which is fact at this point). Thought about it, but I need to hoard my cash as much as I can for the next few months. Like I said, I'll reach out to OMW one more time when the deadline is approaching, I'll let her decide for herself.

And technically, it's not admissible in court, because a court official or police officer didn't physically take it from her suitcase, confirm with W that they belonged to her, and personally walk it down to the lab, so there's no chain of custody. At least that's what the lab guy told me. It's proof to "us", not for her divorce trial, should she decide that's where they're heading. That said, OM confessed to her, and that IS admissible.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

What I find interesting is that someone like her, who allegedly experienced marital betrayal from her first husband, would do the same to her second husband who - unlike her ex - has been a good man. It may be argued that she may still a lot of anger and bitterness leftover from her first marriage. She may be even have a deep seated hatred for men.


----------



## Powerbane

Who's to say the story about first hubby was real???

Unless you heard it first hand from hubby #1, I for sure wouldn't be taking wifey's word as the Gospel Truth. 

Good on ya for being the bigger person thru this man. God help you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

morituri said:


> What I find interesting is that someone like her, who allegedly experienced marital betrayal from her first husband, would do the same to her second husband who - unlike her ex - has been a good man. It may be argued that she may still a lot of anger and bitterness leftover from her first marriage. She may be even have a deep seated hatred for men.


Interesting take, and maybe not far from the truth. When I met her she was in a strong feminist phase, and gaining strength from that she learned to say whatever she felt like saying to other people when they were acting in a manner she deemed condescending, particularly men she didn't respect. Not that that's what feminism is, but I think it was a direct result of that "taking back power" stage of her life.

Would love to have a chat with exH to see what the scoop really was...perhaps she was telling the truth all these years, and he did do and say those things to her to make her have to leave. But...perhaps she got tired of him and he got the proverbial frying pan to the side of the head without warning, just as she was "winding up" to do to me.


----------



## Mike11

Sham 

As far as I can read from the situation at this moment, it is all speculations about her character, 

I would say that I have seen situations similar to these that WWs had shown completely opposite approach to what was expected

I will not be surprise at this point that you may be getting a complete broken down WW, when you actually will go and get your stuff, sometimes these things can and do happen, I am not trying to play to her side, just be prepared to the fact that sometimes BS's find themselves supporting and consoling a WW that suddenly realized what is about to happen and experience a complete breakdown of their world 

I know the chances of that are small but you have to take that in to consideration that it may happen and prepare yourself to be the one that may have to give emotional support to her when she falls down.

just my 2 cents for an optional outcome


----------



## Shamwow

Mike11 said:


> Sham
> 
> As far as I can read from the situation at this moment, it is all speculations about her character,
> 
> I would say that I have seen situations similar to these that WWs had shown completely opposite approach to what was expected
> 
> I will not be surprise at this point that you may be getting a complete broken down WW, when you actually will go and get your stuff, sometimes these things can and do happen, I am not trying to play to her side, just be prepared to the fact that sometimes BS's find themselves supporting and consoling a WW that suddenly realized what is about to happen and experience a complete breakdown of their world
> 
> I know the chances of that are small but you have to take that in to consideration that it may happen and prepare yourself to be the one that may have to give emotional support to her when she falls down.
> 
> just my 2 cents for an optional outcome


If that were to happen I would say something like "I can see you're hurting. But I need to get myself situated right now, and need time to do that before we can talk. Take care of yourself and I'll be in touch when I can."

Or not...

You're right, her breaking down is highly unlikely, and I won't know til a moment like that happens how I would respond after so many weeks (and months) of insanity across the board. Would really like to think I could be "strong and supportive" while also asserting my position of not falling for some tears.and needing to concentrate on myself. I mean, she did **** some guy. Hope it would be easy to remember the full gravity of that at any time from here on out.

That said, I think she'll call me names and give me crap.

And where was she when I was "falling down"? Hiding her secrets, making me feel like it was my fault, and happily webcamming and sleeping with D-Bag McGee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just prepare for all possible scenarios 

In your head run through a wide spectrum of the way she may behave- from complete and utter begging to nasty throwing things and violence and think about the appropriate response. Bear in mind that your first confrontation didn't go as planned because you weren't prepared for the way she acted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Almostrecovered said:


> Just prepare for all possible scenarios
> 
> In your head run through a wide spectrum of the way she may behave- from complete and utter begging to nasty throwing things and violence and think about the appropriate response. Bear in mind that your first confrontation didn't go as planned because you weren't prepared for the way she acted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> If that were to happen I would say something like "I can see you're hurting. But I need to get myself situated right now, and need time to do that before we can talk. Take care of yourself and I'll be in touch when I can."
> 
> Or not...
> 
> You're right, her breaking down is highly unlikely, and I won't know til a moment like that happens how I would respond after so many weeks (and months) of insanity across the board. Would really like to think I could be "strong and supportive" while also asserting my position of not falling for some tears.and needing to concentrate on myself. I mean, she did **** some guy. Hope it would be easy to remember the full gravity of that at any time from here on out.
> 
> That said, I think she'll call me names and give me crap.
> 
> And where was she when I was "falling down"? Hiding her secrets, making me feel like it was my fault, and happily webcamming and sleeping with D-Bag McGee.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Agree 100% 

Make yourself prepared for whatever will be fired on you 
I have seen Callus WW Break in to million pieces once the Sh!t is hitting the fan Sometimes they may throw a show just for the show 

Just be Prepared


----------



## Anubis

Wow. I left for a multi-state vacation almost 2 weeks ago, and stop following this thread shortly after my last post (around page 42) mostly due to lack of internet and time to surf. I've been back home for a few days, but just last night came back here to catch up on things. Wound up with a 3+ hour, 130-page marathon reading session, with my GF reading over my shoulder asking "what about the OMW?" and "when do the results on the Panties"... 

This thread is truly epic.

And so is ShamWow. 

Sham, despite the first setback, you've managed to stick to your guns and your plan and retain/regain your dignity and self-respect. You needed it because, as it is clear now, she thew her respect for you away. You've endured her random and desperate shots to regain control over you and fark with you.
You did much better than I did with my ex- as she ****ted her way around town. I'm proud of you, and I don't even know you except for the words you've written here. 

I won't lie -- after the D, It's still probably going to take some time (6 to 24 months) before your inner feelings about her completely heal and become constant. That's normal, because you gave a s**t about her all those years,invested heavily in her and made her the center of your relationship-world. Things will get better, but it won't be a perfectly linear progression. Remind yourself that it is normal and healthy to have moments and the need to process things.

You're doing great.


----------



## F-102

Sham, are you going to take a cop with you, or at least notify them of your plans? And get one of your friends to videotape the WHOLE load out-from walking in the door to the final goodbye.

And here's another question: if she does break down in tears, begging for another chance, what will you do if she whips out the old "I'll kill myself"?


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> Sham, are you going to take a cop with you, or at least notify them of your plans? And get one of your friends to videotape the WHOLE load out-from walking in the door to the final goodbye.
> 
> And here's another question: if she does break down in tears, begging for another chance, what will you do if she whips out the old "I'll kill myself"?


Gonna lay off the cops for the visit, but I plan to call them before I head over to let them know I will be doing what I'm doing, and want no incident. Audio will be recorded. Video can come out the second something gets weird. Don't want to come in like Geraldo on live...

Now have three guys and one girl (STBX's closest gf will be on call for diversion, confirmed tonight...she gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek and offered to help any way needed). That last one might bite me in the ass between now and then, but if so, whatever. Call me crazy, but I believe her. Just want to make this easy for all parties involved. As much as is possible, given the circumstances.

If she says she'll kill herself...I think I'd hand her a spoon and say "go to work". Nah...she won't go there, at least not on the move out. But if she does I guess that will warrant a 911 call.


----------



## crossbar

I know it's your WW and all....but, she won't threaten to kill herself. She's too selfish for that.


----------



## Mike11

crossbar said:


> I know it's your WW and all....but, she won't threaten to kill herself. She's too selfish for that.


You would not believe what a show and drama Selfish Narcissistic WW can do to attract attention to herself


----------



## Shamwow

crossbar said:


> I know it's your WW and all....but, she won't threaten to kill herself. She's too selfish for that.


Have to agree wholeheartedly. She will try to show me how little my leaving means to her, regardless of what her feelings may actually be. She will throw a few jabs my way, then pretend she's "all smiles", and then follow it up with a few more jabs, esp in front of the friends that are there.

And I will do my best to grin a little, say "that's about right, sure am gonna miss that", and walk out...again.


----------



## Dadof3

Powerbane said:


> Who's to say the story about first hubby was real???
> 
> Unless you heard it first hand from hubby #1, I for sure wouldn't be taking wifey's word as the Gospel Truth.
> 
> Good on ya for being the bigger person thru this man. God help you both.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## krismimo

WOW that is a lot to take in. You have a great ability, to compartmilize everything. I admire that but I wonder and I must ask are you really this composed in person? The internet is an interesting place, either your banging your head aganist the wall as your typing this or you really this composed and practical. And if you really are than good for you! 

I love the fact that as for right now your seperating from your wife because your not taking her S***. Everyone has his or her standards or deal breaker in a marriage. She knew and always known that cheating was not something you can or will tolerate. Another thing I would like to add If I'm not wrong for assuming this is the fact that I understand what made you upset, the time period when you were trying to reconcile and she was on skype talking smack and doing the do, she could have stopped. From the time she known that the jig was up But she didn't stop. It would have probably been easier to deal with if she said ok, I need to stop this because I'm trying to work on this marriage and I love my husband. May I assume that you would have stayed because she didn't know that you could have access to her account? I was just curious it doesn't matter now but just something I like to point out.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Have to agree wholeheartedly. She will try to show me how little my leaving means to her, regardless of what her feelings may actually be. She will throw a few jabs my way, then pretend she's "all smiles", and then follow it up with a few more jabs, esp in front of the friends that are there.
> 
> And I will do my best to grin a little, say "that's about right, sure am gonna miss that", and walk out...again.


She'll probably use the "do you want everyone to know how cold you are in bed" routine or something close in theme from the sounds of what you've already told us - especially with the friends, and more so if the video comes out. She'll be out to embarrass or shaming you into reconsidering.


----------



## crossbar

I know it's counter-productive, but if WW mentions that your a d-bag for telling the OMW, I would have to say, "Actually, she thanked me several times. Apparently, she didn't like to be lied to either."


----------



## Dadof3

crossbar said:


> I know it's counter-productive, but if WW mentions that your a d-bag for telling the OMW, I would have to say, "Actually, she thanked me several times. Apparently, she didn't like to be lied to either."


I actually would modify what CB said to say something similar like "Actually she thanked me profusely, and quite frankly, I hope she takes him to the cleaners!"


----------



## the guy

You have made a plan now work the plan.
Coors Lights are flowing so it ..................


----------



## the guy

text book mt friend text book

Wed. will be a good day. your dog will be there for you and thars the best thing ever.

Your dog is going to dig that reconnection. it must of been a b!tch to walk away from that, but it will all get back to goodness when he can spend some time with him..

Use it wisely!!!!!!!!!!!

They are mans best friend, if you know what I mean.


----------



## F-102

So, you're NOT going to take a cop, you're ONLY going to rely on audio, and her BEST FRIEND will be there?

Sham, you are walking into an ambush!!!!!


----------



## Mike11

F-102 said:


> So, you're NOT going to take a cop, you're ONLY going to rely on audio, and her BEST FRIEND will be there?
> 
> Sham, you are walking into an ambush!!!!!


He stated that there will be 3 other friends( including her best friend)


----------



## F-102

I still say he should, at the very least, warn her that this will be videotaped. I'd rather see people call him paranoid for videotaping than calling him a dumb-ass for not documenting this.


----------



## PHTlump

F-102 said:


> I still say he should, at the very least, warn her that this will be videotaped. I'd rather see people call him paranoid for videotaping than calling him a dumb-ass for not documenting this.


Audio taping and taking three friends IS being paranoid. Videotaping while paying an off-duty policeman to help you move is ridiculously paranoid.


----------



## jenis

As long as Sham keeps his cool, there won't be anything for him to worry about come moving day. Having people there that she's emotionally invested in (has a friendship with) should be enough to keep her from doing anything stupid.

If it doesn't, the three witnesses and audio will trump anything she can come up with.


----------



## Shamwow

PHTlump said:


> Audio taping and taking three friends IS being paranoid. Videotaping while paying an off-duty policeman to help you move is ridiculously paranoid.


That's my take. Want her to see me as being very prepared, not scared of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

What are the chances that the feminine wiles are going to be thrown on when you move Sham?

I think that maybe the toughest response to deal with, especially since its been a LONG time since she's used these on you and nothing else she has tried has worked on you thus so far.

Chances are with your 180/going dark & OMW exposure, she might actually try to catch you off guard with this approach.


----------



## Shamwow

krismimo said:


> WOW that is a lot to take in. You have a great ability, to compartmilize everything. I admire that but I wonder and I must ask are you really this composed in person? The internet is an interesting place, either your banging your head aganist the wall as your typing this or you really this composed and practical. And if you really are than good for you!
> 
> 
> From the time she known that the jig was up But she didn't stop. It would have probably been easier to deal with if she said ok, I need to stop this because I'm trying to work on this marriage and I love my husband. May I assume that you would have stayed because she didn't know that you could have access to her account? I was just curious it doesn't matter now but just something I like to point out.


I have not traditionally been this composed, but most of the time I am right now. Not saying it'll be easy, but my time away these last 10 days has been good for getting my head on straight and regaining my composure. 

And yes, if she had come clean early on (especially before her last trip and Vegas) I was still very interested in R. Last trip/Vegas was the last straw as far as showing me where I stood with her. Only can say "I KNOW what's been going on, I want you to stop it, and tell me everything from the beginning and I'll listen" so many times before the anger of being lied to and disrespected takes over. She had plenty of chances, she clearly didn't think it was important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> What are the chances that the feminine wiles are going to be thrown on when you move Sham?
> 
> I think that maybe the toughest response to deal with, especially since its been a LONG time since she's used these on you and nothing else she has tried has worked on you thus so far.
> 
> Chances are with your 180/going dark & OMW exposure, she might actually try to catch you off guard with this approach.


Well, then it would be a "group thing" documented with audio. Would be great on some Internet xxx sites (which clearly she might dig), but with other people around I think the chances are 0%. maybe she can start off by sending some porn to my email once I move out (for the record, I would've been all over that as of a few months ago, why not?). Or send me a Skype invite at 2am one night?  And lord knows I was curious to see the results of the Brazilian wax, but that's the farthest thing from my mind after all I've learned lately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

F-102 said:


> So, you're NOT going to take a cop, you're ONLY going to rely on audio, and her BEST FRIEND will be there?
> 
> Sham, you are walking into an ambush!!!!!


I agree with that. Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## joe kidd

Sham. What if she starts out with " Damn I'm so sorry I hurt you, I don't know what I was thinking during that time." ? What I mean is... what if she shows real remorse? Do you have that angle covered?


----------



## Shamwow

joe kidd said:


> Sham. What if she starts out with " Damn I'm so sorry I hurt you, I don't know what I was thinking during that time." ? What I mean is... what if she shows real remorse? Do you have that angle covered?


(see my second post on 172)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd

Shamwow said:


> (see my second post on of 172)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gotcha. Sorry.


----------



## Shamwow

AFEH said:


> I agree with that. Forewarned is forearmed.


She is so concerned about not owning up to any fault here guys...really don't think she'll make herself look bad in front of 3 friends and her closest gf. She will talk some smack, sure, but going postal in front of HER support system (gf) would show weakness on her part, so I really think she'll have to tone it down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

PHTlump said:


> Audio taping and taking three friends IS being paranoid. Videotaping while paying an off-duty policeman to help you move is ridiculously paranoid.


Sometimes paranoia is totally justified.


----------



## AFEH

Shamwow said:


> She is so concerned about not owning up to any fault here guys...really don't think she'll make herself look bad in front of 3 friends and her closest gf. She will talk some smack, sure, but going postal in front of HER support system (gf) would show weakness on her part, so I really think she'll have to tone it down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's hope your thoughts don't turn out to be naive. You’ve come such a very long way.


----------



## joe kidd

AFEH said:


> Sometimes paranoia is totally justified.


Yes it is. Had a friend when going through divorce go to his house to get the last of his things. When he showed up his wife had a bloody mouth and bruising, 10 min later the police arrived and she screamed PLEASE STOP HIM! It was a nightmare for him.


----------



## crossbar

PHTlump said:


> Audio taping and taking three friends IS being paranoid. Videotaping while paying an off-duty policeman to help you move is ridiculously paranoid.


Paranoid? Not in my opinion. He has to protect himself. WW/WH do CRAZY things when they're caught. Best to have the whole thing documented. If she calls the cops and says Sham was beating on her and pushing her around while he's over there and nothing to to show to the contrary. It's his word against hers. And, unfortunately, her word is going to win with the cops. Guess who will be sitting in jail until the whole matter is sorted out. If he has witnesses and a recording of the entire interaction, he covers his butt, and she would stand to go to jail for making a false statement.

Paranoid...maybe. Smart....YES


----------



## Dadof3

Sham - just checking in with you - anymore chatter from the STBXW via text / vm / email? I'm sure she's aware of the move date with her best friend being involved. 

Or has she "gone dark" thinking the routine will work both ways?:rofl:


----------



## PHTlump

AFEH said:


> Sometimes paranoia is totally justified.


Sure. But how often is ridiculous paranoia justified? As he said, he's already taking multiple witnesses and recording the interaction on audio.


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> Sham - just checking in with you - anymore chatter from the STBXW via text / vm / email? I'm sure she's aware of the move date with her best friend being involved.
> 
> Or has she "gone dark" thinking the routine will work both ways?:rofl:


She has gone dark. I'm shakin'. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Maybe she finally spoke w a lawyer and realized she shouldn't be sending me angry texts and emails right now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

And just to mention...the reason her gf will be involved is because I met with her husband last night to chat...he said his wife would of course be there to support my W as a long time friend should, but that they both want to help me as much as possible as they certainly don't agree with or support what my W did to cause this. Like I said, I believed him. I have to trust my friends right now...if they let me down and cause an "ambush", I'll deal with it and they will not keep my trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

PHTlump said:


> Sure. But how often is ridiculous paranoia justified? As he said, he's already taking multiple witnesses and recording the interaction on audio.


I don't know. Maybe following legal advice is best but even that's no guarantee. I think I'd want a totally and utterly independent witness with me.


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## Shamwow

AFEH said:


> I don't know. Maybe following legal advice is best but even that's no guarantee.


I've run my pickup plan by my attorney...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fido

Shamwow said:


> And just to mention...the reason her gf will be involved is because I met with her husband last night to chat...he said his wife would of course be there to support my W as a long time friend should, but that they both want to help me as much as possible as they certainly don't agree with or support what my W did to cause this. Like I said, I believed him. I have to trust my friends right now...if they let me down and cause an "ambush", I'll deal with it and they will not keep my trust.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup: :iagree: :smthumbup: :iagree: :smthumbup: :iagree:

Great approach, good luck!!!


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> And just to mention...the reason her gf will be involved is because I met with her husband last night to chat...he said his wife would of course be there to support my W as a long time friend should, but that they both want to help me as much as possible as they certainly don't agree with or support what my W did to cause this. Like I said, I believed him. I have to trust my friends right now...if they let me down and cause an "ambush", I'll deal with it and they will not keep my trust.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did u give him/her the scoop on the panties test - in addition to everything else?


----------



## Shamwow

AFEH said:


> Let's hope your thoughts don't turn out to be naive. You’ve come such a very long way.


I hope so too. Luckily, I can afford bail right now.  just being realistic, she knows I'm lawyered to the hilt and have been all business with her. She probably expects a SWAT team to arrive w me when I come back, at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> Did u give him/her the scoop on the panties test - in addition to everything else?


NO. He knows more than he did before, but details were kept sparse, and I specifically told him there was plenty more, but that was between me, my STBX, OMW and OM. He respected that.

And if that sentiment from me gets back to my STBX, good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Another funny thing crossed my mind - 

Maybe you should bring her one of those "been there / done that" tshirts for her as a parting gag gift for her. It will have SO much meaning for her. 

JK, well, maybe not! 

P.S. Had to add in that it has to also say something about all she has left from the "been there / done that" is the crumby t-shirt!


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, don't worry too much. You have some witnesses now. Just go forward, be businesslike. I would avoid eye contact even. No funny stuff. Goal is to get all your stuff out of there as quickly and quietly as possible, then walk away. 

I like the "talk to the hand" tactic. If she tries to engage, just avoid, avoid, avoid. If you want to invite her to say her peace, have her write you a letter. 

Let us know how it goes. Good luck.


----------



## Dadof3

Gabriel said:


> Sham, don't worry too much. You have some witnesses now. Just go forward, be businesslike. I would avoid eye contact even. No funny stuff. Goal is to get all your stuff out of there as quickly and quietly as possible, then walk away.
> 
> I like the "talk to the hand" tactic. If she tries to engage, just avoid, avoid, avoid. If you want to invite her to say her peace, have her write you a letter.
> 
> Let us know how it goes. Good luck.


Sham, our man, doesn't sound worried at all - I think we are more worried than he is. 

BTW, I apologize if my humor is out of place - I'm trying to lighten the mood around here. Its gotten somber (I know, its a Marriage support board!) lately.


----------



## PHTlump

crossbar said:


> Paranoid? Not in my opinion. He has to protect himself. WW/WH do CRAZY things when they're caught. Best to have the whole thing documented. If she calls the cops and says Sham was beating on her and pushing her around while he's over there and nothing to to show to the contrary. It's his word against hers. And, unfortunately, her word is going to win with the cops. Guess who will be sitting in jail until the whole matter is sorted out. If he has witnesses and a recording of the entire interaction, he covers his butt, and she would stand to go to jail for making a false statement.
> 
> Paranoid...maybe. Smart....YES


OK. So sometimes spouses do crazy things. How often do they do crazy things? Does 1 spouse out of 10 do these crazy things, or is it 1 spouse out of 1,000,000? That information is relevant.

Also, for the spouses that do these crazy things, how many of those instances are the first time they've ever done something like this. In other words, if Sham lived in a marriage where the cops were frequently out to his house because his stbx was violent with a crazy temper, then I think the ridiculous paranoia seen here may be justified. But that doesn't seem to be the case. His wife wasn't violent prior to her affair. Since she has been caught, she hasn't been violent. She's been rude and flippant, but not violent. So what are the odds that a rude, flippant spouse suddenly becomes violent? Pretty remote I'd say.

So I think that Sham is literally covering every base that he should be concerned with covering. He has witnesses and he will record the interaction on audio. Should he wear a Kevlar vest and a pith helmet and ask the Channel 2 action news team to accompany him? I don't think so. But, I'm sure some on this forum will disagree.

Since some here are on record with their dire predictions of the catastrophes that await Sham upon interacting with his stbx, I will join the fray. I predict that absolutely nothing of consequence will occur. I predict that Sham will remove his property and there will be not so much as a raised voice during the move. She may talk to her friend loud enough so that Sham overhears some insults. She may pretend to have lost a favorite shirt of Sham's or something like that. But, there will be no histrionics of either her begging for another chance, or her accusing him of being an awful person.

Either way, I hope it ends as well as possible for Sham's sake.


----------



## ThighMaster

PHTlump said:


> OK. So sometimes spouses do crazy things. How often do they do crazy things? Does 1 spouse out of 10 do these crazy things, or is it 1 spouse out of 1,000,000? That information is relevant.
> 
> Also, for the spouses that do these crazy things, how many of those instances are the first time they've ever done something like this. In other words, if Sham lived in a marriage where the cops were frequently out to his house because his stbx was violent with a crazy temper, then I think the ridiculous paranoia seen here may be justified. But that doesn't seem to be the case. His wife wasn't violent prior to her affair. Since she has been caught, she hasn't been violent. She's been rude and flippant, but not violent. So what are the odds that a rude, flippant spouse suddenly becomes violent? Pretty remote I'd say.
> 
> So I think that Sham is literally covering every base that he should be concerned with covering. He has witnesses and he will record the interaction on audio. Should he wear a Kevlar vest and a pith helmet and ask the Channel 2 action news team to accompany him? I don't think so. But, I'm sure some on this forum will disagree.
> 
> Since some here are on record with their dire predictions of the catastrophes that await Sham upon interacting with his stbx, I will join the fray. I predict that absolutely nothing of consequence will occur. I predict that Sham will remove his property and there will be not so much as a raised voice during the move. She may talk to her friend loud enough so that Sham overhears some insults. She may pretend to have lost a favorite shirt of Sham's or something like that. But, there will be no histrionics of either her begging for another chance, or her accusing him of being an awful person.
> 
> Either way, I hope it ends as well as possible for Sham's sake.


Odds are there will be no problems. However I am a 'Hope for the best plan for the worst' sort of guy. Part of my work requires risk management/disaster planning, and believe me my line of thinking has saved my butt both on a work and personal level many times before.

I see the cost of the couple hundred for paying an off duty officer (non biased observer) as insurance against the possible loss of tens of thousands.

If it was me I would either:
1) Pay an off duty officer to be by my side through the whole process. OR..
2) Get another disinterested party with NO ties to her to video the interaction.

If Sham has no intentions of an R, frankly who cares what she thinks of this, he is simply protecting his interests.

'Friends' and 'Acquaintances' can and do make false statements on the witness stand.

Of course, this is what *I* would do.

Sham will do what he feels comfortable with and I am sure given his recent history will execute his plan well.


----------



## crossbar

PHTlump said:


> OK. So sometimes spouses do crazy things. How often do they do crazy things? Does 1 spouse out of 10 do these crazy things, or is it 1 spouse out of 1,000,000? That information is relevant.
> 
> Also, for the spouses that do these crazy things, how many of those instances are the first time they've ever done something like this. In other words, if Sham lived in a marriage where the cops were frequently out to his house because his stbx was violent with a crazy temper, then I think the ridiculous paranoia seen here may be justified. But that doesn't seem to be the case. His wife wasn't violent prior to her affair. Since she has been caught, she hasn't been violent. She's been rude and flippant, but not violent. So what are the odds that a rude, flippant spouse suddenly becomes violent? Pretty remote I'd say.
> 
> So I think that Sham is literally covering every base that he should be concerned with covering. He has witnesses and he will record the interaction on audio. Should he wear a Kevlar vest and a pith helmet and ask the Channel 2 action news team to accompany him? I don't think so. But, I'm sure some on this forum will disagree.
> 
> Since some here are on record with their dire predictions of the catastrophes that await Sham upon interacting with his stbx, I will join the fray. I predict that absolutely nothing of consequence will occur. I predict that Sham will remove his property and there will be not so much as a raised voice during the move. She may talk to her friend loud enough so that Sham overhears some insults. She may pretend to have lost a favorite shirt of Sham's or something like that. But, there will be no histrionics of either her begging for another chance, or her accusing him of being an awful person.
> 
> Either way, I hope it ends as well as possible for Sham's sake.


Actually, one of the best courses I ever took in college was a community and domenstic violence course. Very informative. Some pro-men organizations estimates that almost 80% of DV case are false alligations. Sometimes at the advice of the womans lawyers.

DV alligations are appearing more in family courts than sexual assault cases. Now, this might not be the case with Sham but Woman know that if they want to "nail their husbands" then they need to get them on DV. This way they can go for full custody of the children, custody of the martial home, chid support and alimony, Ex has to have supervised visitation, no over nights visitation with little to no interaction with the Ex Husband.

And the funny thing is, 50% or more of DV is at the hands of the woman. And society accepts this. 

For example, if you were at a party and a girl walks across the room and smacks her boyfriend in the face and walks off in a huff. Most people would be like, " DAMN!!! I wonder what he did?" If the boyfriend walk across the room and smacked the girl, EVERYONE would be all over him. Cops would be involved.....just a mess.

The point is, Sham should protect himself until this is all over.


----------



## PHTlump

ThighMaster said:


> Odds are there will be no problems. However I am a 'Hope for the best plan for the worst' sort of guy. Part of my work requires risk management/disaster planning, and believe me my line of thinking has saved my butt both on a work and personal level many times before.
> 
> I see the cost of the couple hundred for paying an off duty officer (non biased observer) as insurance against the possible loss of tens of thousands.


I work in risk management as well. That's why I asked about the odds. The odds are the critical piece of information in the equation. If you have a one in a million chance of losing a million dollars, then your expected loss is $1. You should not spend $1,000 to protect yourself against that possible million dollar loss. You might want to spend $50 if you can easily afford it. However, Sham has said that he doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on this kind of stuff.


----------



## PHTlump

crossbar said:


> Some pro-men organizations estimates that almost 80% of DV case are false alligations. Sometimes at the advice of the womans lawyers.


I understand that many cases of DV may be false. But how many of those allegations involve a completely out of character false charge. Sham knows his wife and he isn't very worried about this. I think Sham probably knows his wife's character better than any of us.



crossbar said:


> Now, this might not be the case with Sham but Woman know that if they want to "nail their husbands" then they need to get them on DV. This way they can go for full custody of the children, custody of the martial home, chid support and alimony, Ex has to have supervised visitation, no over nights visitation with little to no interaction with the Ex Husband.


That may be true. However, given the fact that there are no children, that each spouse has a job with comparable earnings, and marital assets are set up for easily dissolution, I don't see much benefit to the stbx for a DV allegation.

Best case scenario, maybe she gets a 60/40 split instead of a 50/50 split. Worst case scenario, she has to defend herself from civil and criminal action resulting from a false DV charge. That's not an attractive risk/reward picture.


----------



## crossbar

PHTlump said:


> I understand that many cases of DV may be false. But how many of those allegations involve a completely out of character false charge. Sham knows his wife and he isn't very worried about this. I think Sham probably knows his wife's character better than any of us.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay here's a case that doesn't involve children, but she messed up this guys world:
> 
> Man charged with felony DV because he unplugs phone
> Top
> 
> The June 11, 1998, edition of Westword carries a story in which a man got into an argument with his girlfriend at their suburban home. There was no evidence of violence, such as a punch or a kick. She later alleged that he shoved her, though that remains in dispute. What really got the man in trouble was, when she threatened to call the police, he said, "No, you' re not," and pulled the plug on the telephone.
> 
> There were still other ways she could have contacted the police. He did not try to stop her from leaving the apartment, tie her up, or even prevent her from using the other two telephones in the apartment. Instead, according to the story, she went to bed. Apparently it wasn't until the next afternoon, while she was at work, that she decided to call the police. He was arrested and had to spend the night in jail.
> 
> In what is now standard practice in most Colorado jurisdictions, the man was originally charged with a felony offense under a Colorado state wiretapping statute that prohibits anyone from preventing or interfering "in any way" with a telephone call. The wiretapping offense is punishable by up to eighteen months in prison. A felony, or a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, has powerful consequences for a man's future. That is especially true where employment requires a bond, background check, or security clearance.
> 
> The prosecutor in the case contended that the man's actions were "demeaning and controlling" and therefore fell under the domestic-violence statutes.
> 
> Unwilling to risk a felony conviction, or spend the large amount of money necessary to go to trial the man accepted a plea bargain to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge and was sentenced to a year's probation, 36 weeks of domestic-violence counseling at a cost of $1,600, a permanent restraining order, and a lifetime sentence of no weapons. His name will also come up as every time the police stop him because of the restraining order. And if they find him in her company, even with her permission, he will go to jail.
> 
> "Where was the violence?" his attorney asked?
> 
> 
> It's that simple, she just had an after-thought at work.


----------



## Entropy3000

PHTlump said:


> Sure. But how often is ridiculous paranoia justified? As he said, he's already taking multiple witnesses and recording the interaction on audio.


When a wife behaves like this one has.


----------



## Shamwow

ThighMaster said:


> If Sham has no intentions of an R, frankly who cares what she thinks of this


Eh, I do I guess. I want her to know I'm in control of the situation and all, but for the long run I wouldn't want to give her any reason to actually feel she's right in saying I was acting paranoid and postal at any stage of this mess. If anyone gets that label going forward, I would prefer it be her, not me. Does it *really* matter? No. But I do care how I present myself to her right now, even with R out the window. I'm in this to win now. She won't have me arrested. She knows my lawyer will EAT HER ALIVE. And if she did, to make a point I think I would call HER parents for bail money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

crossbar said:


> Okay here's a case that doesn't involve children, but she messed up this guys world:


Right. A guy was charged with DV by an overzealous prosecutor. But that case did involve the boyfriend doing SOMETHING (ripping the phone out of the wall) and the girlfriend simply reported what happened accurately to the police.

So I will join you in recommending that Sham not rip the phone out of the wall when picking up his things.

But I still don't believe there is a significant risk that his stbx will falsely charge Sham with DV. The odds are much higher in favor of a snarky comment or two, or silence.


----------



## crossbar

okay well, here's another:

Top 

Abstracted from story by Dennis Huspeni, Colorado Springs Gazette 

September 12, 2006 — A 21-year-old Monument-area resident got a bogus domestic violence charge dismissed, but the arrest and court case showed up on his criminal record and kept him from getting a job with the U.S. Transportation Security Administration.

When the man requested his arrest record be sealed, he doubted the prosecutor would object, because the charge was dismissed for lack of evidence.

Wrong.
The 4 th Judicial District attorney's representative objected to the sealing, saying not enough time had passed.

Fortunately for the man — who asked that his name not be used out of fear of being labeled a domestic abuser — a judge sealed it anyway.

"People have a penchant for labeling someone with a domestic violence tag," ruled Senior Judge David Parrish. "That carries a heavy load with it and affects his ability to go forward in life." 

Colorado law allows defendants to ask the court to seal their arrest records, and any court file created from that arrest, if the charges are dismissed, the person is found not guilty by a jury or the case involved a deferred sentence.

The person must pay $136 to file a civil petition to seal the records.

Deputy District Attorney Jayne Candea-Ramsey, who heads the district attorney's civil division, reviews petitions.

So far in 2006, 242 such petitions have been filed in the 4 th Judicial District, which includes El Paso and Teller counties. The district attorney's office has agreed to 73 of the requests, and had 55 more sealed over its objection.

Before District Attorney John Newsome took over in 2005, the office objected to every petition.

"The requests are evaluated whether it's in the interest of justice to have the case sealed," said Candea-Ramsey. "There are good people who get into trouble. But then, there are also people who get into trouble who we need to keep a record of." 

The domestic violence suspect had no criminal record. The felony charge — and subsequent arrest by the El Paso County Sheriff's Office — came after he had fought with his now ex-girlfriend. She bit him in the shoulder hard enough to draw blood, so he pushed her off him, he said.

Deputies arrested him despite the fact that he still had bite marks on his shoulder three days later when pictures were taken, and the woman had no visible injuries. 

The man spent almost two days in jail, and prosecutors took the case up to the day of trial before dropping it. [which is standard practice in an attempt to coerce a plea bargain.] 

He had to attend counseling with the woman despite having broken off the relationship. So the man was stunned when he showed up to court to get his record sealed and Ms. Candea-Ramsey objected.

"Why should that be on my record?" he asked. "I had to spend two days in jail, pay all that money for an attorney, do counseling, and they still wanted it on my record? I had done nothing wrong!" 

At least one judge thinks if prosecutors drop the charges, the case should be sealed.

"If it's dismissed because of lack of evidence, a not-guilty at trial, I see no reason not to seal it," said Senior District Judge Richard Toth. "Sometimes they got the wrong guy." 

Ms. Candea-Ramsey said otherwise during the hearing: "The public has a right to know that when he is confronted, he gets angry and lashes out at others." [So he has no right to self defense!] 

The man's attorney, Dan Kay, said he, too, was surprised by the assistant district attorney's position.

"If they didn't feel they had a prosecutable case, he's entitled to get it sealed," Kay said. "Sometimes it's so arbitrary." 

Ms. Candea-Ramsey counters that the district attorney's office has to consider the alleged victim's wishes, as well as look at the defendant's prior criminal history.

It's an especially difficult decision when it comes to domestic violence charges, since victims often change their minds and reconcile with suspected abusers. The victim will often refuse to testify, and prosecutors then have no choice but to dismiss the case. [but only since the Crawford vs. Washington Supreme Court ruling.] 

That's why Ms. Candea-Ramsey doesn't agree to routine sealings in cases that have been dropped by the district attorney.

"We really do look at it on a case-by-case basis and try to do what's fair but also do justice," she said.

The Monument-area man wonders about innocent defendants who don't have the financial support he had from his parents and how they would get their names cleared. "I hate this system," he said


and another:
The same June 11, 1998, edition of Westword also carried a story of two other cases of domestic violence, both involving the same two sisters.

In the first case, the younger sister got her former boyfriend arrested on a domestic-violence charge for telephone "disturbance." The boyfriend had wanted a television back he had loaned to the older sister and money back he had loaned to his then-girlfriend. 

He called with his demands once too often and the girls had a tape of him calling and asking for his stuff back. In one of the messages he apparently said, "Why can't I get a f***ing return phone call?" He didn't threaten her or her sister but because he used f***, he was charged with disturbance for using obscene language on the telephone. 

According to the man's attorney: "The most ludicrous part was that it was a message he left for the older sister, with whom he didn't have an 'intimate relationship,' because he couldn't get the younger sister to call him back. But he still got tagged with domestic violence." 

Fortunately, the attorney was able to locate witnesses who said the young women had boasted to friends that they knew how to get back at former lovers who crossed them. They even had allegedly laughed about writing a book about how to use Colorado's domestic-violence statutes as a weapon . 

According to the Westword story, the younger sister had a personal perspective on domestic violence statutes: She had previously been arrested for assaulting another boyfriend and forced to take anger-management classes, which she referred to in front of friends as "how-to-beat-up-your-boyfriend-and-get-away-with-it classes." 

The man's attorney tried in the first case to get the city attorney to listen to the witnesses and dismiss the charges. But the prosecutor said he couldn't make any deals that didn't include a guilty plea, probation, and 36 weeks of domestic-violence counseling, as mandated by Colorado law. 

In this case the man was willing to go to trial ( and we think you should be as well ) but it wasn't until the morning of the trial, when the man and his attorney showed up with "a train of witnesses," that the prosecutor relented. The prosecutor talked to the witnesses, then talked to the sisters, then decided that he didn't think he could prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt and dropped the charges. Note that before the trial the courts and the prosecutors do not listen to the man at all, and we suggest you don't try. Nor, under the "no drop" law, will they listen to the woman no matter how much she may want to drop the charges. Domestic violence is a crime against the State and will be prosecuted to the full extent of the taxpayer's ability to pay.

According to the attorney in the case: "It cost my client a few thousand dollars for me to prepare for trial, not to mention his time and the stress. Anything but a crime with that 'Domestic Violence' stamped on the file, and they would have dropped it way before it got that far." 


The fact is, I found those stories within 5 minutes of looking on the net. And there are several SEVERAL more.

Not trying to bash on this, but the point I'm trying to get across is it happens more often than you think.

Now, is Sham's WW going to do this stuff? Probably not. Is Sham's WW capable of doing this stuff? I believe the answer is yes. I think these guys didn't think that their women were capable of this either.


----------



## PHTlump

crossbar said:


> okay well, here's another: ...
> and another: ...
> The fact is, I found those stories within 5 minutes of looking on the net. And there are several SEVERAL more.
> 
> Not trying to bash on this, but the point I'm trying to get across is it happens more often than you think.


That's not at all apparent. You now have posted a few cases where overzealous prosecutors or vindictive spouses caused problems for men. In a country with millions of divorces and DV cases every year, I'm not at all surprised by this. I have never argued that a false DV accusation could never happen. I have argued that a false DV accusation is very unlikely in Sham's case.



crossbar said:


> Now, is Sham's WW going to do this stuff? Probably not.


Exactly! Now we're seeing eye to eye.


crossbar said:


> Is Sham's WW capable of doing this stuff? I believe the answer is yes. I think these guys didn't think that their women were capable of this either.


That's not apparent either. If you're arguing that she's capable in the same sense that she's capable of shooting Sham and his friends in the face and eating their corpses, then I agree. I just think it's very unlikely. I think Sham is already using overkill in audiotaping his interactions. But, since he already has the VAR, it's not going to cost him anything.


----------



## Shamwow

I appreciate the heads up, I really do. But this will not be my case tomorrow. If it is, then I DO have a future book on my hands. 

My STBX is not a Jerry Springer candidate...being cold and callous and unremorseful is not the same as being insane and willing to eff up her future (publicly and more important, professionally) in order to get back at me.

It won't be comfortable, but it won't be in the headlines on Thursday morning. She may be acting crazy, but she is smart (trust me) and won't be putting herself in any worse situation than she is already in now (except, maybe with me).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Well, even though me and PHTlump are having a healthy and respectful debate... I believe that we can agree that we have your best interest at heart and we are pulling for ya!

Okay, I can AGREE that you don't need the Marines with you, just be careful on what's said and done.


----------



## sh0t

Keep you guard up until the divorce is final. 

You've turned a major corner, but just wait until you get to court. you'll really feel relieved then.


----------



## Shamwow

sh0t said:


> Keep you guard up until the divorce is final.
> 
> You've turned a major corner, but just wait until you get to court. you'll really feel relieved then.


Luckily, there should be no court. Unless she wants to take who gets the TV all the way...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

HurtinginTN said:


> There are a few of us Marines on here, so just give the word and you could have some of us there as well. :rofl:


Tempting, very tempting...thanks guys.


----------



## Entropy3000

HurtinginTN said:


> There are a few of us Marines on here, so just give the word and you could have some of us there as well. :rofl:


Forever Faithful


----------



## Gabriel

Wishing Sham the best of luck tomorrow!


----------



## golfergirl

Gabriel said:


> Wishing Sham the best of luck tomorrow!


Thinking of you Sham! Wishing you all the best!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Wife may have gotten tipped off that Sham will be there to move his stuff out tommorow. Maybe she won't be there.


----------



## krismimo

Man where were you guys five years ago? LOL


----------



## sam83

keep it up sham u r making every LS proud 

I think if every man and woman cheated on do the same stuff here to their WS the infidelity will be really low it'll never ends but it'll decrease with a really good rate


----------



## morituri

krismimo said:


> Man where were you guys five years ago? LOL


Care to explain fair lady?


----------



## F-102

Best of luck, Sham. I know I may sound paranoid, but I just believe that you should consider every angle and cover your ass. You said that you would give the fuzz a heads-up, and that should be good-especially if you talk to the cop that you talked to in the first place.


----------



## krismimo

@Morituri I mean that I wish I had military back up when I went through my break up


----------



## krismimo

good luck Sham I hope everything turns out ok. I guess we won't know until tomorrow man I hope everything turns out as smooth as it can be.


----------



## morituri

krismimo said:


> @Morituri I mean that I wish I had military back up when I went through my break up


Well if you need your own personal battalion in the future, you now know where to go.


----------



## Entropy3000

krismimo said:


> @Morituri I mean that I wish I had military back up when I went through my break up


It is best to do a "Thunder Run"


----------



## Chaparral

I was wondering yesterday at work if Sham's wife would eventually think about the divorces, the broken hearts, the lies, the hell they have put their spouses through, the broken homes, the mental damage, the lost trust of family and friends, the financial costs and probably the hate they have inspired, and conclude that a "third rate romance, low rent rendezvous" was a bad idea?


Good luck today Sham, vaya con dios.


----------



## Powerbane

Good Luck Sham!

Air Force Space Command Checking In - The Eyes in The Skies got your back too. 

Keep your spirit up and it ain't over til it's over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

And I'm an ex-82nd Airborne paratrooper. Death from above, All The Way!!!


----------



## Mike11

All of us are Ex military here ?


----------



## Gabriel

Nope. Thanks for the service guys. Looking forward to hearing how Sham's house visit goes.


----------



## PHTlump

chapparal said:


> I was wondering yesterday at work if Sham's wife would eventually think about the divorces, the broken hearts, the lies, the hell they have put their spouses through, the broken homes, the mental damage, the lost trust of family and friends, the financial costs and probably the hate they have inspired, and conclude that a "third rate romance, low rent rendezvous" was a bad idea?


You would think that she would be forced to acknowledge that. But it is absolutely not a given. Modern society accepts divorce without shaming the person responsible for it. Perfectly acceptable answers for why you divorced are such vapid responses as, "We grew apart." or, "I just wasn't happy."


----------



## Dadof3

Sham - I'm still stuck on the idea that you ought to bring your wife a "consolation prize" when you r done with your moving. Something like a tshirt or plaque that says:

"Monogamy is not my thing" or

"Been there, done that, all my ex left me with was this lousy t-shirt"

Something for her to remember you by.

 Good luck!


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> Sham - I'm still stuck on the idea that you ought to bring your wife a "consolation prize" when you r done with your moving. Something like a tshirt or plaque that says:
> 
> "Monogamy is not my thing" or
> 
> "Been there, done that, all my ex left me with was this lousy t-shirt"
> 
> Something for her to remember you by.
> 
> Good luck!


Maybe after the D. 

The shirt could also say "Playaz Play".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Thanks for the well wishing everyone. Today is a big one. I'm ready to make it happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

deep breaths


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Good Luck!

Cypress


----------



## morituri

Sending out good vibes to ya Sham

Here's something to make you laugh


----------



## Anubis

chapparal said:


> I was wondering yesterday at work if Sham's wife would eventually think about the divorces, the broken hearts, the lies, the hell they have put their spouses through, the broken homes, the mental damage, the lost trust of family and friends, the financial costs and probably the hate they have inspired, and conclude that a "third rate romance, low rent rendezvous" was a bad idea?


If she's anything like my ex-wife... (which apparently she is), then the answer is likely "NO".

For that to happen, she would have to acknowledge to herself and everyone else that what she did was wrong, take responsibility and accept everyone around her seeing her as having screwed up. And I just don't see that happening. It's been my observation that few wayward spouses are willing to do that, and of those that do, most that I've seen are men. 

We live in a culture where women seem to get the following messages - 1) they "deserve" whatever makes them happy 2) they are supposed to appear to everyone as "good girls" and 3) when something bad happens to them, it's not their fault (they're just victims of fill-in-the-blank). 

What I expect will happen going forward is damage control on her part. Stories of how bad and mean and evil and negligent Mr. ShamWow was and how she heroically endured and worked so hard every single day to make the marriage work, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, puke, puke, puke.... Anything to save face. Sham's already experienced first-hand her ability to explain away things.


----------



## F-102

chapparal said:


> I was wondering yesterday at work if Sham's wife would eventually think about the divorces, the broken hearts, the lies, the hell they have put their spouses through, the broken homes, the mental damage, the lost trust of family and friends, the financial costs and probably the hate they have inspired, and conclude that a "third rate romance, low rent rendezvous" was a bad idea?
> 
> 
> Good luck today Sham, vaya con dios.


Yes, she may someday-and she can tell this to the walls and her 50 smelly cats.


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> Yes, she may someday-and she can tell this to the walls and her 50 smelly cats.


Make that 50 dogs...and that's much smellier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

Shamwow said:


> Make that 50 dogs...and that's much smellier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, just pictured her someday as the crazy cat lady from the Simpsons-you know, the one who screams unintelligibly and throws cats at everyone!


----------



## Dadof3

Sham - when's game time?


----------



## Shamwow

Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both. 

So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both.
> 
> So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Propbably good you take both dogs. But it is telling that she is moving into another life and the dogs were part of her previous life.


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both.
> 
> So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham: Interesting take on her willingness to let u live in the house / her move out. I almost have the feeling that she expects an R at some near point in the future, especially when the dogs are factored in. 

Its almost a "peace offering" of her infidelity - and possibly a reflection on the other side that she won't be able to financially afford to keep it herself. 

Looking forward to the post move highlights!


----------



## girlfromipanema

I won't speculate on what your wife is thinking and feeling, but I'm wishing you well and I'm so pleased that you'll get both puppies!


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Surprising how civil she suddenly is- hopefully she remains so.


----------



## Gabriel

Sham, that sounds like the first civil exchange you've had in a long time. I will speculate that she has realized defeat here, the anger has subsided some, and now she's just numb, or even a bit sad. She's also probably gained some respect for you because of how maturely you have handled the situation.

Agree it's a good sign of a decent visit tonight.


----------



## MarriedTex

Shamwow said:


> Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both.
> 
> So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course she can be magnanimous about living in the house. She's on road for work most of the time. She doesn't really need a house for herself. This will just be a financial anchor around her neck. Getting Sham to live there - and assume the payments for awhile - would give her time to get real estate finances in better order. 

They'll probably wind up splitting the costs of getting out of the house once divorce is done. But if she has not consulted with lawyer yet, she may think she's on the hook for the whole thing. 

Don't read too much into the potential for repentence and a last-ditch plea to revive the R, folks. Call me cynical, but my hunch is that her attitude is all about the way the assets are going to be split now that this is looking like a reality.


----------



## Amplexor

The thread has been moderated a couple of times for off topic and disrespectful posts. Let's keep it respectfully focused on Sham and his wife. Thanks.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both.
> 
> So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Didn't you mention that the house value took a hit during the housing crisis? If so, maybe it is primarily her hope that you'll take it off her hands.

Regardless, I hope today goes well for you.


----------



## piqued

Good luck tonight, Sham. It sounds like it will go well. It also sounds like your wife has reconciled to the idea of D and is preparing herself to make a clean break. IMO, that's why she offered the house, the dogs, etc....She's eyeing the possibility of a "whole new me" with a completely blank slate. Could be wrong, but that's my initial guess. Anyway, good luck with the move out!


----------



## Almostrecovered

Halien said:


> Didn't you mention that the house value took a hit during the housing crisis? If so, maybe it is primarily her hope that you'll take it off her hands.
> 
> Regardless, I hope today goes well for you.



I think shams lawyer mentioned he's pretty much stuck for half the inequity no matter what
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThighMaster

Shamwow said:


> Game time is 5:30. Just called my STBX, she was very civil. I told her what would be taking place, she said, "so is your plan to not live in the house?" I said, "yes, I've got a place and will be moving and getting myself situated." she offered to live somewhere else...I declined and said she has my number and we can talk about all these things as this goes forward. She then suggested I take both dogs, as she'd hate to split them up. I told her I'd love to take care of them both, or I could watch the other dog when she's out of town, made it her choice. She said to take both.
> 
> So I'll see her tonight, move my things and get on with my life. Hopefully our conversation just now is a sign that tonight will go smoothly. I'll let you know. Thanks for the support, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck Sham. Betcha those doggies will be glad to see you


----------



## Shamwow

On my way. Apparently she will be gone (gf is taking her out for drinks). Guess I don't have to see what she thinks when I take the 42" and the Bose sound system now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Nice.  Seriously, best of luck. Don't badmouth her or anything- never know if she's recording the event as well. Just get in and out...


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> On my way. Apparently she will be gone (gf is taking her out for drinks). Guess I don't have to see what she thinks when I take the 42" and the Bose sound system now...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sweet. Hope it works out the way it sounds.


----------



## Halien

Almostrecovered said:


> I think shams lawyer mentioned he's pretty much stuck for half the inequity no matter what
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My point was that Sham's lawyer didn't tell HER this. No way to know what she assumes about divorce, so its a little premature to suspect that the comment indicates an interest in reconciliation.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm not one for silly revenge games but peeing with the seat down isn't a bad idea


----------



## Almostrecovered

Halien said:


> My point was that Sham's lawyer didn't tell HER this. No way to know what she assumes about divorce, so its a little premature to suspect that the comment indicates an interest in reconciliation.


point taken

please dont hurt me


----------



## harusty

Sham

I have been following your thread from day one and just want to say, Well Done Sir! I assure you that your wife will regret this. She is obviously losing a good man and she knows it. Stand your ground and God bless you. She will come out of the fog someday and you will know that you played it right.

Regards,
Rusty


----------



## MrQuatto

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm not one for silly revenge games but peeing with the seat down isn't a bad idea


:lol: :rofl: :rofl:

Great idea! Then put it up when he is done.


----------



## crossbar

Shamwow said:


> On my way. Apparently she will be gone (gf is taking her out for drinks). Guess I don't have to see what she thinks when I take the 42" and the Bose sound system now...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, kinda figured that was gonna happen.


----------



## Almostrecovered

crossbar said:


> Yeah, kinda figured that was gonna happen.


her disappearing act or sham absconding with the electronics?


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> her disappearing act or sham absconding with the electronics?


She has embedded electronics in those that will allow her to monitor his every move.

Actually it would be unfair to the dogs for them not to have the TV and the sound system.


----------



## Cypress

Dogs love great sound systems!










So he has been there for 2 hours now. He should be done soon.


----------



## crossbar

LOL! The disappearing act. Kinda thought that was gonna happen. Sham taking the good electronics is a shock! You go Sham!


----------



## Shaggy

Sham your wife is obviously a coward. She couldn't be honest with you and she is hiding from you now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Cypress said:


> So he has been there for 2 hours now. He should be done soon.



???? Have you ever moved before?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Almost,

Yes I have moved many, many times. But Sham is not taking all the furniture, plates, kick-nacs, Christmas ornaments, etc.. So, it should not take more than a couple of hours.

Cypress


----------



## kymbree

I agree Sham should have the good electronics,he works from home she is never home.Plus he is taking both dogs,so he will need the music to calm his salvage beasts!lol


----------



## Shamwow

W...T...F...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

That doesn't sound very good, Sham. Hope you are doing ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

What's up?

Cypress


----------



## Shamwow

Well folks, that's what I get for opening the lines of communication today. She was indeed gone when we arrived. We busted out the bed (from the guest bedroom), then broke down my office, gear and wires...then grabbed my golf clubs, a few plates, a few cups, and then the TV and speakers I mentioned earlier.

We left. She came back. The s**storm begins. I mean seriously, I can't believe I fell for the whole "civil", let's do this thing schlock she gave me earlier today. Let the texting begin:

Her: "Being that clearly you've made all kinds of decisions for us without talking or being advised legally I assume everything left is mine? Fun how you get to shop the house with no discussion."

Me (figured we were being civil, I'd actually engage her politely, big mistake): "It's just a TV...and everything is still 'ours' until we work the details out. I figured you'd be there to weigh in on things."

Her: "Oh yeah, I can really look at you after what you did to (OMW)."

At this point I should have disengaged. I texted back saying please stop telling me what *I* did to (OMW). Told her to think about that for sec. Then said that OMW thanked me for confirming what she already knew, and that I didn't expect her (my STBX) to agree with me on that right now, but it was the truth.

Then she jumped into how it's not the Tv, it's the modem. She has work to do tonight, and the lawyers would love to hear how I was effing her job up. (I didn't take the modem, just my wifi router, and I left HER wifi router on her desk with a note saying "for wifi". She could also just plug into the modem. She claims it's not there. I specifically made sure it was, and even told my guys to leave it for her. Guessing her lawyer offered up a FU tactic and she's playing it. Anyway, hateful texts about me being a vengeful f***, heartless, and childish liar.

I told her to tell the lawyers whatever she wants and they can sort it out if she doesn't believe me. Also said I would look for it in my things and if it's there I would apologize for the mistake.

Now, if its actually missing (which of course it is not) she could call the cable company and have a new one dropped off tomorrow for 7 bucks. But that's not the point...point is, I engaged her again and she let the floodgates open. My mistake. Back to dark.

Called my guys and asked if they remember me telling then to leave it, and remember me checking to make sure it was still there. They did. No matter to her of course...

Guess the cop would've been a good idea, godda***t. Guess she wants to play hardball, and there's no reason to. But hey - her choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Other than that, the move went well. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Another choice exchange -

Her: "How many of them (guys helping me move) were f***ing with my underwear this time? Mr. Lab results. Sick."

I said "my thoughts exactly. Good night."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Like I said, back to dark. Let the lawyers sort it out. She gets served tomorrow. No more engagement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar

Grrr....sorry you had to go through that! I mean, really?!? What YOU did to the OMW? When is she gonna get off that kick.

And calling you a liar? That's rich. You should staple a copy of that lab report to the front door with a little note stating, " Now who's exactly the liar here?"

Sorry, your post got on my nerves...


addendum: Just saw your post with the Mr. Lab results. Grrr... Sorry would have wrote back, " Actually that was benefical to OMW, she thanked me for those too."

GRRRR>>>>sorry feeling vindictive now.....I know this isn't helping...but, DAMN!!!!


----------



## Shamwow

Anyone else feel a restraining order coming on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Your dealing with a venom spitting STBXW. 










She will stoop to any level to cause you pain. So don't take any of it personally. Keeping your distance is the best thing you can do. 

She could get a restraining order to keep you from the home. But you don't have a reason to go back at this point.

I have a feeling that the OM threw your STBXW under the bus to save himself. She is probably venting that anger at you too. Your a convenient target for her.

I would keep a personal journal about all your interactions with her, and your feelings. Years from now you will read it and remember how you took the high road every time.

How are the dogs?

Cypress


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think you should send her a message regarding the OMW. Take that argument away from her once and for all.

"You sound like an idiot every time you accuse me hurting the OMW. You ****ed her husband! Think about that the next time you pretend to care about her feelings!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you should send her a message regarding the OMW. Take that argument away from her once and for all.
> 
> "You sound like an idiot every time you accuse me hurting the OMW. You ****ed her husband! Think about that the next time you pretend to care about her feelings!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Do it right now.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> Another choice exchange -
> 
> Her: "How many of them (guys helping me move) were f***ing with my underwear this time? Mr. Lab results. Sick."
> 
> I said "my thoughts exactly. Good night."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have said none. For sure fewer than were F'ing with your underwear in Vegas.

All things considered this actually went well sir.


----------



## MrQuatto

Well Sham, really - overall, it was worse than we hoped and less than we feared so I guess we learn and continue moving on. Let her be angry and she can choke on her spite for all you care. the last area of conflict is done. Let the systems work it from here and continue forward to new sham lifeville.

Q~


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> Anyone else feel a restraining order coming on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get those t-shirts printed up stat!

It was bound to happen that reality would start to settle in for her sooner or later. With the alcohol in her system and coming home to a half empty house - its perfectly understandable that she's going to get vicious.

She is having a hard time with consequences, isn't she? So sad!

Get the RO on her in the morning. Be interesting to hear what she says to you after she is served.


----------



## Dadof3

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you should send her a message regarding the OMW. Take that argument away from her once and for all.
> 
> "You sound like an idiot every time you accuse me hurting the OMW. You ****ed her husband! Think about that the next time you pretend to care about her feelings!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

And totally alpha-like too. She needs to be put into her place, logically speaking.

I wouldn't even call her an idiot on it. I think something crafted along the lines of:

You ****ed her husband, and you are accusing me of hurting the OMW? You are a real piece of work! What planet did you come from?


----------



## SadSamIAm

Now that you have your things you no longer need to put up with her BS. Tell her you video taped all your belongings. That you took less than the 50% that you were entitled to. Maybe mention that you have evidence that she was stashing marital funds prior to the separation (just to give her something to worry about). Then tell her that you will no longer be responding to her. That any further communication will come from your lawyer. Look after yourself Sham. Move on. You have a great future to look forward to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

So...I'm thinking about getting a divorce. What do you guys think? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Shamwow said:


> So...I'm thinking about getting a divorce. What do you guys think?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## sam83

Shamwow said:


> So...I'm thinking about getting a divorce. What do you guys think?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::iagree::rofl::lol::smthumbup:

she really deserve second chance lol :rofl:


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> So...I'm thinking about getting a divorce. What do you guys think?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

Why? What'd she do that wasn't perfectly justifiable and well deserved? She's a hard working woman and definitely entitled to a little nookie on the side! How dare you suggest..... 

:smthumbup::smthumbup:
:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## Shamwow

The pups are great...sleeping in their beds while I unpack. So great to see them again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> The pups are great...sleeping in their beds while I unpack. So great to see them again...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


May I ask - without risking your confidentiality (or maybe I missed this in earlier post) - what kinda dogs do you have and hold old, male / female, etc?


----------



## Shamwow

Dadof3 said:


> May I ask - without risking your confidentiality (or maybe I missed this in earlier post) - what kinda dogs do you have and hold old, male / female, etc?


Wiener and min pin...little fellas. Both old enough to know better when they pee on something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Very glad you got both of the dogs. For me anyway that would have the most valuabke thing to walk away with.

So, yeah, let the legal stuff move forward. Keep focusing on moving ahead with your life. She really messed it all up. Self distructive rampage for who knows why?


----------



## krismimo

WOW Sham sorry to hear that, but I did suggest you get a police officer because she is irrational and most of the time when someone is in the wrong and they don't want to admit it they will take it out on you. This broad is beyond off her rocker oh if you do decide to get a restraining order you could use what she sent to you via text aganist her it is a threat keep all your texts especially if she is hostile. 

I had to get a restraining order on my husband's ex wife more than once please ask me if you need advice on that been there done that and still going through it. Oh and yes you should start going through the motions of a divorce cut you loses hun at least you see her for what she is now vs 10-20 years down the line before you had children. Oh yes one more thing get a journal and start logging down every time she contacts you? Why? because anytime you document anything for time period it almost supercedes everything. Especially in writing and if you need to go to court.


----------



## Shamwow

I was actually talking about her slapping me with a RO...why not, right? She will be served tomorrow, email sent with orders tonight. Done with this crap.

And yes, thank god I have my stuff and my dogs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## krismimo

Oh beat her to the punch wowzers NO Pun intended but you know what I mean at least you have your own place and please if you need anything please feel free to message me I would be glade to help SHAM. Just remember dont delete the texts and or emails plus if she does find out where you live she can't just pop up. Take care hun and keep your head up. I aint gonna lie it is going to get even more uglier just be prepared. Like the hubs always tells me when you learn a person true nature nothing they do will ever surprise you, or a person true nature will eventually come out.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sham as much as I wish to offer help, you are now at the going through divorce stage and I have no experience to offer you. You may wish to consider starting a new thread in that forum.


----------



## aeg512

I am in agreement that your WW has brought up your hurting the OMW's too many times and it is time you put a stop to that. However my thought is that you should elicit a response from her to make it hit home, I do know she will not respond. "You keep telling me how much I hurt the OMW's by tell her the truth, however tell me one thing, what do you think she thinks about you ******* her WH? Since you have brought this up so much I think I deserve an answer."


----------



## AFEH

Sham, your lawyer is (was?) there to protect you from your naiveté. To protect you from your inexperience of divorce law and your inexperience of the cunning ways of spouses and their lawyers.

Your lawyer should have advised you that marital property/assets can only be divided by written mutual agreement or if agreement cannot be reached, by the divorce court. But he didn’t do that did he and in essence you walked right into a trap. CHANGE YOUR LAWYER. Personally I wouldn't pay all of his bill.

You can bet your wife’s friend was in on the whole thing. DROP ALL OF YOUR WIFE’S FRIENDS.


----------



## Halien

Shamwow said:


> I was actually talking about her slapping me with a RO...why not, right? She will be served tomorrow, email sent with orders tonight. Done with this crap.
> 
> And yes, thank god I have my stuff and my dogs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most importantly, you faced her and the situation in a way that would make any man proud. Through the whole ordeal, starting weeks ago, you handled yourself in a way that maybe you couldn't imagine yourself doing just a few months ago. You've left this situation being a better person, while she has only gone backwards.

Welcome to the new Sham!! Sure, what happens makes you feel horrible, but imagine how long the misery would go on if you never had the strength to do what you've done so far? Through your story, you're telling yourself and the world that the cheater is the one who is broken, not you.


----------



## PHTlump

AFEH said:


> Your lawyer should have advised you that marital property/assets can only be divided by written mutual agreement or if agreement cannot be reached, by the divorce court.


:scratchhead:
Huh? I agree that the final divorce decree will settle the division of property. But, that doesn't mean that Sham can't remove ANY property from his house until the divorce is final, or his stbx agrees to let him have it.


AFEH said:


> But he didn’t do that did he and in essence you walked right into a trap.


And exactly what kind of trap did Sham walk into? The one where his stbx agreed that he could come get his stuff and she wouldn't be there? Sounds diabolical to me. The lack of tension in the air at the house must have been palpable.


AFEH said:


> CHANGE YOUR LAWYER. Personally I wouldn't pay all of his bill.


:scratchhead:
Talk about your crazy advice. Sham, pay your lawyer. If you think a stbx can be vindictive, try a lawyer who got stiffed on his bill.



AFEH said:


> You can bet your wife’s friend was in on the whole thing. DROP ALL OF YOUR WIFE’S FRIENDS.


In on WHAT? Getting the stbx out of the house? The nerve! Do you think that Sham's stbx has implanted microchips in his brain so that she can monitor his thoughts? Should Sham wear tinfoil hats in all his future interactions with his stbx?


----------



## AFEH

Ha! Crazy. But at least two opposing views.


----------



## F-102

Personally, I think she is royally PI**ED OFF that sham didn't cave. He came thru with what he said he would, and she blew her chance to get him while he was in the house-probably had plans to call the police, accuse him of battery, and he got away!

And what good would a RO do at this point? You don't have to see her again. In fact-it would be HILARIOUS if you hit her with one first. And, seems strange that her only defense is that you "hurt" the OMW. 

Sham, I think this went 10 times better than we had a right to expect. Now, you don't have to worry about her again until the D goes thru. Let her wallow in her misery, let the lawyers hash it out, let YOUR life be good from now on.


----------



## F-102

Sham, I think you're handling this magnificently, but there's one thing that I wish you would have done differently: left a discreetly hidden webcam behind, so that we could see her reaction when she realized that you have wrested control of the situation from her. And I would give my right arm to see the look on her face when she gets the papers!


----------



## washburn

HMM...I think if you talk to her on the phone again (talk not text) you outta record each and every single phonecall...you never know what she might claim you said which you actually didnt say. She might say you threatened to kill her or something.


----------



## harusty

F-102 said:


> Personally, I think she is royally PI**ED OFF that sham didn't cave. He came thru with what he said he would, and she blew her chance to get him while he was in the house-probably had plans to call the police, accuse him of battery, and he got away!
> 
> And what good would a RO do at this point? You don't have to see her again. In fact-it would be HILARIOUS if you hit her with one first. And, seems strange that her only defense is that you "hurt" the OMW.
> 
> Sham, I think this went 10 times better than we had a right to expect. Now, you don't have to worry about her again until the D goes thru. Let her wallow in her misery, let the lawyers hash it out, let YOUR life be good from now on.


This is absolutely true. Shaming language is a typical tactic for those who are losing a fight. It's all that your wife has at this point. I've been called every name in the book at one time or another. You can expect more of it, don't let it get you down. She will probably tell you that she thinks you're gay, you have a small package, you're not a "real man", you suck in bed, etc, etc. It's really rather pathetic. When this happens don't respond, it will drive her nuts.


----------



## Voiceofreason

PHTlump said:


> :scratchhead:
> Huh? I agree that the final divorce decree will settle the division of property. But, that doesn't mean that Sham can't remove ANY property from his house until the divorce is final, or his stbx agrees to let him have it.
> 
> And exactly what kind of trap did Sham walk into? The one where his stbx agreed that he could come get his stuff and she wouldn't be there? Sounds diabolical to me. The lack of tension in the air at the house must have been palpable.
> 
> :scratchhead:
> Talk about your crazy advice. Sham, pay your lawyer. If you think a stbx can be vindictive, try a lawyer who got stiffed on his bill.
> 
> 
> In on WHAT? Getting the stbx out of the house? The nerve! Do you think that Sham's stbx has implanted microchips in his brain so that she can monitor his thoughts? Should Sham wear tinfoil hats in all his future interactions with his stbx?


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

I guess I'd rather be "Mr. Lab Results" than "Ms. I Cheated On My Husband and Have Twisted the Facts So Everything is His Fault and I'm a Poor, Defenseless Woman- Hey, Where's My Modem?"


----------



## ThighMaster

Shamwow said:


> Anyone else feel a restraining order coming on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Possible, but not very likely, it wouldn't serve any real purpose.

You got your stuff and the dogs, she has nothing left to hold 'hostage' so to speak, such as children.

Looking at her latest insults I think she is really grasping and realizing she is going to have one heck of a time penetrating your resolve.


----------



## girlfromipanema

harusty said:


> This is absolutely true. Shaming language is a typical tactic for those who are losing a fight. It's all that your wife has at this point. I've been called every name in the book at one time or another. You can expect more of it, don't let it get you down. She will probably tell you that she thinks you're gay, you have a small package, you're not a "real man", you suck in bed, etc, etc. It's really rather pathetic. *When this happens don't respond, it will drive her nuts.*


I would find it waaaay too difficult to not respond, but have to agree your lack of response will drive her nuts. 

I hope you are beginning to feel less hurt and more indifferent to her. She doesn't deserve the 'satisfaction' of inflicting any additional pain on you. She's really so far from the woman you once adored. A small part of me pities her (but a big part of me wants to shake some sense into her). I hope one of her friends will be a good enough friend to tell her she's out of her mind when she blames you for hurting OMW.


----------



## loveiswhereiamnot

I think that went well! 

You're fine on the property. The court has jurisdiction over the final disposition of it, so if the court orders that she gets the TV, you have to give it back to her. 

My opinion? She's mad because you aren't begging her to save your marriage. She was banking on that for her ego. Not that she wanted to save it, but she *needs* you to want her/the marriage. That you are so clearly done with her is a massive ego blow.

Her referring to what you did to the OMW is only because she's got nothing else to use to paint you as the bad guy in this.

I agree with others, though, that shouldn't go unaddressed. I think a simple e-mail of "If you want to ask OMW which was the hurtful action - me telling her you **cked her husband or you **cking her husband - we can put this matter to rest once and for all" should end that taunt forever.

JM&J, she is a piece of work. I know you've got a ways ahead of you before you resolve your feelings for her, but the way you have handled this whole thing has been classic. You were respectful to her when most people wouldn't have been. You may not believe it, but there will come a time in her life when she will look back and know what she lost. it won't be now or maybe for the next year or three. but it will happen. 

By then? You won't care.


----------



## Shamwow

One more update before I have to start a new thread.

Another sob story this morning about the Internet, claiming she can't work and may lose her job if she can't get some files, and has deadlines. I called the cable company and confirmed that the modem was indeed connected, and was responding as fully operational. Sent her a text telling her that. She said she had no wifi. I said she had a wifi router on her desk, plug it in. Then she said she had no Ethernet cable. Possible? Maybe. I know there are 3 or 4 in one of our cabinets, but instead of telling her that and letting her just claim that wasn't true I ran by and dropped off two cables on the front porch. Texted her: "Took the liberty of dropping two Ethernet cables on the front porch. In the future, please use the borrowed car in the garage to run errands, as I am busy with work as well." She replied that she couldn't run errands as she has deadlines (and I don't??). Then she said thanks.

First of all, there seriously was a borrowed car from a friend in the garage, so it was clearly a power play to get me to respond. That said, without responding that could give her fuel to tell her lawyer (who I picture as Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons) to try and slap me with some vindictive crap about trying to hinder her ability to make a living (even though it wouldn't hold up, why waste the time and money?). Go to Best Buy, lady. You're a big girl.

Second, if she needed these files to work, then how could she be "too busy" to go to the store? She *couldn't* have been busy if that was the case. How could having a deadline prevent her from running an errand that's "necessary" to get the job done? You would think that would make the errand easy to justify. Instead of taking the 25 minutes to go to the store and spend 8 bucks, she chose to text me all night about her woes, continuing on into this morning. Deadlines? She needs to work on her time management. So she "won" by getting me to respond, but the texts also show how effing stupid her claim was, and how I responded calmly and helpfully while she spewed bs at me to make legal threats.

Third, download the friggin' files on your iPhone, sync to your computer, and start working. But then, logic left the building for her long ago.

Finally, this is the last time I help her with some bs. From now on, lawyers it is. (and I did consult my lawyer before going over there with the cables).

Now back to getting MY place set up so I can work and move on with my life.

P.S. I will start a new thread in Divorce for future dealings on that front. It was a heck of a ride through Sex In Marriage and Coping With Infidelity, let's see how Divorce treats me. May post here more if I'm having trouble coping w the infidelity issues that will undoubtedly be popping into my head over time.

Thank you all SO MUCH for your amazing advice and support through this horrible time of my life. I feel so much stronger than I ever have, because I feel confident I did the right things for the right reasons...couldn't have done it without you. Seriously. If it was just me, my therapist and some friends who haven't dealt with this before, I wouldve been scre*ed. I had some setbacks and made some mistakes, buy I would've made tons more mistakes without the perspective given here. Might even still be living at home and wondering what I've done wrong to make my wife not like me anymore [*shudder*].
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

loveiswhereiamnot said:


> I think that went well!
> 
> You're fine on the property. The court has jurisdiction over the final disposition of it, so if the court orders that she gets the TV, you have to give it back to her.
> 
> My opinion? She's mad because you aren't begging her to save your marriage. She was banking on that for her ego. Not that she wanted to save it, but she *needs* you to want her/the marriage. That you are so clearly done with her is a massive ego blow.
> 
> Her referring to what you did to the OMW is only because she's got nothing else to use to paint you as the bad guy in this.
> 
> I agree with others, though, that shouldn't go unaddressed. I think a simple e-mail of "If you want to ask OMW which was the hurtful action - me telling her you **cked her husband or you **cking her husband - we can put this matter to rest once and for all" should end that taunt forever.
> 
> JM&J, she is a piece of work. I know you've got a ways ahead of you before you resolve your feelings for her, but the way you have handled this whole thing has been classic. You were respectful to her when most people wouldn't have been. You may not believe it, but there will come a time in her life when she will look back and know what she lost. it won't be now or maybe for the next year or three. but it will happen.
> 
> By then? You won't care.



Probably best to stay dark, but if she keeps harping on Sham being the one to hurt the OMW, I think how you worded it is perfect. Sham's STBXW logic is astounding and shows that she has not reflected at all on her own responsibility in the affair. 

One has to think that someday Sham's STBXW will have a dose of reality and realize her past mistakes. I get the feeling some people never do, choosing to live their lives as victims and blamers. Hopefully someday she'll look inward and realize she's not perfect, but by then she'll just be a part of Sham's past and not his future.


----------



## ThighMaster

Shamwow said:


> One more update before I have to start a new thread.
> 
> Another sob story this morning about the Internet, claiming she can't work and may lose her job if she can't get some files, and has deadlines. I called the cable company and confirmed that the modem was indeed connected, and was responding as fully operational. Sent her a text telling her that. She said she had no wifi. I said she had a wifi router on her desk, plug it in. Then she said she had no Ethernet cable. Possible? Maybe. I know there are 3 or 4 in one of our cabinets, but instead of telling her that and letting her just claim that wasn't true I ran by and dropped off two cables on the front porch. Texted her: "Took the liberty of dropping two Ethernet cables on the front porch. In the future, please use the borrowed car in the garage to run errands, as I am busy with work as well." She replied that she couldn't run errands as she has deadlines (and I don't??). Then she said thanks.
> 
> First of all, there seriously was a borrowed car from a friend in the garage, so it was clearly a power play to get me to respond. That said, without responding that could give her fuel to tell her lawyer (who I picture as Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons) to try and slap me with some vindictive crap about trying to hinder her ability to make a living (even though it wouldn't hold up, why waste the time and money?). Go to Best Buy, lady. You're a big girl.
> 
> Second, if she needed these files to work, then how could she be "too busy" to go to the store? She *couldn't* have been busy if that was the case. How could having a deadline prevent her from running an errand that's "necessary" to get the job done? You would think that would make the errand easy to justify. Instead of taking the 25 minutes to go to the store and spend 8 bucks, she chose to text me all night about her woes, continuing on into this morning. Deadlines? She needs to work on her time management. So she "won" by getting me to respond, but the texts also show how effing stupid her claim was, and how I responded calmly and helpfully while she spewed bs at me to make legal threats.
> 
> Third, download the friggin' files on your iPhone, sync to your computer, and start working. But then, logic left the building for her long ago.
> 
> Finally, this is the last time I help her with some bs. From now on, lawyers it is. (and I did consult my lawyer before going over there with the cables).
> 
> Now back to getting MY place set up so I can work and move on with my life.
> 
> P.S. I will start a new thread in Divorce for future dealings on that front. It was a heck of a ride through Sex In Marriage and Coping With Infidelity, let's see how Divorce treats me. May post here more if I'm having trouble coping w the infidelity issues that will undoubtedly be popping into my head over time.
> 
> Thank you all SO MUCH for your amazing advice and support through this horrible time of my life. I feel so much stronger than I ever have, because I feel confident I did the right things for the right reasons...couldn't have done it without you. Seriously. If it was just me, my therapist and some friends who haven't dealt with this before, I wouldve been scre*ed. I had some setbacks and made some mistakes, buy I would've made tons more mistakes without the perspective given here. Might even still be living at home and wondering what I've done wrong to make my wife not like me anymore [*shudder*].
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Have you thought about going entirely dark with her, changing your cell number and any other known electronic means and directing her to contact you through your lawyer? Or would that be too disruptive to your business?

In any case Sham I have read a significant number of these types of threads on multiple sites and I can't think of another case where the betrayed has held it together as well as you have.

Bravo man, bravo.


----------



## Mike11

ThighMaster said:


> Have you thought about going entirely dark with her, changing your cell number and any other known electronic means and directing her to contact you through your lawyer? Or would that be too disruptive to your business?
> 
> In any case Sham I have read a significant number of these types of threads on multiple sites and I can't think of another case where the betrayed has held it together as well as you have.
> 
> Bravo man, bravo.


:smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## Hijo

ThighMaster said:


> Have you thought about going entirely dark with her, changing your cell number and any other known electronic means and directing her to contact you through your lawyer? Or would that be too disruptive to your business?
> 
> In any case Sham I have read a significant number of these types of threads on multiple sites and I can't think of another case where the betrayed has held it together as well as you have.
> 
> Bravo man, bravo.


Indeed. Thank you Shamwow. While yours turned out differently than I hope mine does, it was indeed a roller coaster.

While I realize that your story being here is specifically to help you, I thank you for also providing us, the readers, with the strength, the laughs, the cries, all of it. Thank you sir, and best of luck to you in your new life!


----------



## tacoma

Sham, I`ve been on this forum and others like it for awhile now and you IMO have handled this situation was well as I`ve ever seen it done. Better considering the attitude of your Ex.

Well done.


----------



## Slapchop

Shamwow said:


> (who I picture as Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons)


The amazing Lionel Hutz is no longer with us, thanks to his homicidal wife. I'm still pissed for Phil.



Shamwow said:


> Thank you all SO MUCH for your amazing advice and support through this horrible time of my life. I feel so much stronger than I ever have, because I feel confident I did the right things for the right reasons...couldn't have done it without you. Seriously. If it was just me, my therapist and some friends who haven't dealt with this before, I wouldve been scre*ed. I had some setbacks and made some mistakes, buy I would've made tons more mistakes without the perspective given here. Might even still be living at home and wondering what I've done wrong to make my wife not like me anymore [*shudder*].


Thank you for sharing a difficult chapter of your life. You've done an exemplary job of taking the high road and acting with class. This thread will serve as an education to many for a long while.

And now...I guess...I can close this tab on my browser...that's been open for weeks....


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## golfergirl

Slapchop said:


> And now...I guess...I can close this tab on my browser...that's been open for weeks....


Just get ready to open a new one.
What's your new thread on the divorce forum?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Sham Thank you for sharing your "epic" story here with us, I wish you well from this point onward, I am very much pro reconciliation but one must admit that this is impossible goal to reach in a point of time and must take the necessary steps to protect oneself in the process.

I do hope for the sake of your STBX and yourself that may be there is a small chance of her to come around, may be down the line after the smoke of divorce guns will settle and from a different position she will make amends for her errors. 

I have learned a lot from reading your thread and I must admit that even with the support system that TAM is offering. I doubt that I would be able to do the same as what you have done and accomplished in that short time, 

Well done Sir


----------



## F-102

So strange-she was so good at looking out for herself, putting herself first, was able to orchestrate lies, deceit, and coldly calculated heartbreak, was able to plan her "business" trips, use technology to facilitate her affairs...

...and now she's suddenly "little girl lost" who can't get to the store to buy cables and hook up a computer for work?

So strange...


----------



## Dadof3

F103: So strange-she was so good at looking out for herself, putting herself first, was able to orchestrate lies, deceit, and coldly calculated heartbreak, was able to plan her "business" trips, use technology to facilitate her affairs...

...and now she's suddenly "little girl lost" who can't get to the store to buy cables and hook up a computer for work?

So strange... 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Been dying to say that myself, all day!


----------



## Entropy3000

Mike11 said:


> Sham Thank you for sharing your "epic" story here with us, I wish you well from this point onward, I am very much pro reconciliation but one must admit that this is impossible goal to reach in a point of time and must take the necessary steps to protect oneself in the process.
> 
> I do hope for the sake of your STBX and yourself that may be there is a small chance of her to come around, may be down the line after the smoke of divorce guns will settle and from a different position she will make amends for her errors.
> 
> *I have learned a lot from reading your thread and I must admit that even with the support system that TAM is offering. I doubt that I would be able to do the same as what you have done and accomplished in that short time,
> 
> Well done Sir*


I feel the same way.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Mike11

F-102 said:


> So strange-she was so good at looking out for herself, putting herself first, was able to orchestrate lies, deceit, and coldly calculated heartbreak, was able to plan her "business" trips, use technology to facilitate her affairs...
> 
> ...and now she's suddenly "little girl lost" who can't get to the store to buy cables and hook up a computer for work?
> 
> So strange...


I think she is very capable of doing all of that, this is her way to stay clingy and needy for attention from Sham and engage him 

IMO there is a good change once he sever this connection she will fall hard on her face 
and this is where REAL reality will start sinking in 

Remain to be seen


----------



## Shamwow

F-102 said:


> So strange-she was so good at looking out for herself, putting herself first, was able to orchestrate lies, deceit, and coldly calculated heartbreak, was able to plan her "business" trips, use technology to facilitate her affairs...
> 
> ...and now she's suddenly "little girl lost" who can't get to the store to buy cables and hook up a computer for work?
> 
> So strange...


EXACTLY. Pretty much the most self-sufficient person I've ever known. And an Ethernet cord had her stumped. When she's out of town on a job it's her job to run the project, give direction to the team, make sure all the details are in place and everyone has what they need. Eh, about right these days, if she can find some way to make something look like my fault I'm gonna hear about it. Speaking of which, she should be getting served at the house any minute now. Guessing that will be a vindictive, vengeful, childish, immature move on my part, right? As of yesterday's "civil" conversation before the move, she said her lawyer needed some documents to move forward (not the *right* documents, mind you, so I'm wondering if she even does really have a lawyer), but told her she had to be served papers first. I said (in the interest of the new civil tone) she could stop into my lawyer's office and sign, or my guy could send them to her guy, or the could be mailed to her and then she could take them to her guy. She asked if I could do the latter. I said sure. Then last night happened and I decided to go with direct service ASAP because she'll prob just sit on them for as long as she can without the clock ticking.

Update***
So they tried to serve her today, now I just heard from them that she wasn't there (or didn't answer), no movement of the curtains, etc, front and back, no answer on the home phone or her cell. They will try again tomorrow, after that I need to reassess. She's supposed to be working hard on that deadline, right? Then be home and answer the d**n door! Either way, when they do succeed, guaranteed it will have been dishonest, childish and petty of me to serve her that way instead of taking "the decent approach" of trusting her to do what she said she would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

And now a text from her saying "we" are overdrawn. (joint checking) I noticed that our health insurance premiums would be coming out so I put just enough in to cover it because if hers went through first, then mine might bounce (I have since transferred my autopay to one of my accounts), joint account will be closed once all autopays are reassigned. Then she transferred $100 out to her account last night. The health insurance ent through, but a $10 job postings site monthly fee (for her) went through and now we're $25 under after the OD fee.

Hmmmm, what to do, what to do...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

There is a limit to the number of time a person can avoid service. In Washington state the limit is 5 times, then the person is in contempt of court. How does it work in your state?

Cypress


----------



## Cypress

Sham,

Looks like its time to start separating all the fiances. Ask your lawyer the best way to do this.

Cypress


----------



## Mike11

Shamwow said:


> And now a text from her saying "we" are overdrawn. (joint checking) I noticed that our health insurance premiums would be coming out so I put just enough in to cover it because if hers went through first, then mine might bounce (I have since transferred my autopay to one of my accounts), joint account will be closed once all autopays are reassigned. Then she transferred $100 out to her account last night. The health insurance ent through, but a $10 job postings site monthly fee (for her) went through and now we're $25 under after the OD fee.
> 
> Hmmmm, what to do, what to do...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham 

Tell her to call her financial adviser guy and use the money she hidden away all these months

I would pay the balance to 0 and close the account immediately

She can keep engaging you like that for ever, you still bailing her out 

Close the account or remove your name from it and that is it


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## Dadof3

Shamwow said:


> And now a text from her saying "we" are overdrawn. (joint checking) I noticed that our health insurance premiums would be coming out so I put just enough in to cover it because if hers went through first, then mine might bounce (I have since transferred my autopay to one of my accounts), joint account will be closed once all autopays are reassigned. Then she transferred $100 out to her account last night. The health insurance ent through, but a $10 job postings site monthly fee (for her) went through and now we're $25 under after the OD fee.
> 
> Hmmmm, what to do, what to do...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And let the mind games begin!

This is going to be interesting, to say the least!


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## Shamwow

Angel5112 said:


> I work for and bank and I would just call your bank and explain what is going on. Say it was a one time thing due to a lack of communication between you and your STBXW. They are usually pretty good about refunding things like that so long as it hasn't been done multiple times (asking for a refund). Then you can also ask them to re-route certain auto-debit items from one account to another until you can get them all switched. This way you aren't accountable for the overdraft fee and you aren't giving her anymore "free" money. I would also call your lawyer and let him know that this happened. Just in case.


Sweet, did just that. They reversed the fee, didn't even have to give em the whole sob story. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

"We" are overdrawn? Are "we" starting to go into denial?


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## MrQuatto

Sham, I agree with others that you need to ensure all your debt is moved from that account and your name gets removed. Im not sure if you can actually cancel a joint account but you can explain your situation and have yourself removed.

As for your earlier post on her suprise that you aren't fighting for or taking the house, she had planned on you insisting and she just up and leaving to go elsewhere, leaving you to deal with the hassle of working out the details.

Again, you have thwarted her plan and left her holding the responsibility bag. Now SHE has to deal with getting appraisals, selling it, etc... however it works out. You're making her WORK. You heartless [email protected] you 

Just my $.02 gut opinion.

Q~


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## F-102

Sham, she is using ANY excuse to communicate with you, hopefully to get a rise out of you so that you'll have a meltdown or say/do something that you'll regret and that she can use to her advantage.

And she simply CAN'T or WON'T face up to the reality that you grew a pair and took charge of yourself. Either she's pouting because you beat her to the punch and stole her thunder, or she can't accept the fact that she lost you. She's probably still convinced that you'll stop this "childish" phase of yours and come home to get your just desserts. 

In short, she JUST DOESN'T GET IT.


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## golfergirl

F-102 said:


> Sham, she is using ANY excuse to communicate with you, hopefully to get a rise out of you so that you'll have a meltdown or say/do something that you'll regret and that she can use to her advantage.


Or keeping up reasons to communicate so you'll come back. She doesn't know what to do when the choice is no longer hers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

golfergirl said:


> Or keeping up reasons to communicate so you'll come back. She doesn't know what to do when the choice is no longer hers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right-how can you defeat an enemy that has left the battlefield?


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## Cypress

Sham,

No you don't need to inform her. It's best if you don't. I'm assuming your using a process server.

I spoke to a friend this afternoon that is a county Sheriff. She informed me that the 5 times rule is only for the Sheriffs Dept when dealing with probation issues. It does not apply for serving regular legal documents. She did say that you can have the process server leave the documents at the door, after a certain number of tries. But run all this by your lawyer. There are some due process issues with improper document service.

Cypress


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## Shamwow

Cypress said:


> Sham,
> 
> No you don't need to inform her. It's best if you don't. I'm assuming your using a process server.
> 
> I spoke to a friend this afternoon that is a county Sheriff. She informed me that the 5 times rule is only for the Sheriffs Dept when dealing with probation issues. It does not apply for serving regular legal documents. She did say that you can have the process server leave the documents at the door, after a certain number of tries. But run all this by your lawyer. There are some due process issues with improper document service.
> 
> Cypress


Thanks Cypress...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

Need a news update/fix Sham - any new txts / VM's to report?


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## ozwang

Mate, I've just read this from start to finish....WOW!!! What a journey!!!

All I want to say is I'd like to commend you on being a strong, level headed and flat out awesome human being during this massive ordeal. If I can have half your brains when I'm older I'll be happy. Also the guts & heart its taken you to share this with everyone, is nothing less than amazing. So thank you.

I really do hope the best for you moving forward, I hope one day you find someone who appreciates you for the truly good guy you are (its funny cos I feel like I know you after reading all this!).

If I was in your country (and not in Australia) I swear we'd be mates, you'd be a wicked one to have:thumbup:

Take care


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## Shamwow

ozwang said:


> Mate, I've just read this from start to finish....WOW!!! What a journey!!!
> 
> All I want to say is I'd like to commend you on being a strong, level headed and flat out awesome human being during this massive ordeal. If I can have half your brains when I'm older I'll be happy. Also the guts & heart its taken you to share this with everyone, is nothing less than amazing. So thank you.
> 
> I really do hope the best for you moving forward, I hope one day you find someone who appreciates you for the truly good guy you are (its funny cos I feel like I know you after reading all this!).
> 
> If I was in your country (and not in Australia) I swear we'd be mates, you'd be a wicked one to have:thumbup:
> 
> Take care


Thanks man. Maybe we can swill a few next time I'm there. And come on, I just turned 34, not that old. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

New thread in Divorce, the journey continues...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hijo

ozwang said:


> (its funny cos I feel like I know you after reading all this!)


I felt like he was one of my good friends. Seriously. I felt his pain, his joy, his laughter, his sadness. All though a forum thread.

Amazing.


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## ozwang

Shamwow said:


> Thanks man. Maybe we can swill a few next time I'm there. And come on, I just turned 34, not that old.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry mate, you seem so smart I assumed you were a bit older. I'm 29 so you're that too far off!

You come to Australia? Seriously if you do I'd be more than keen to catchup for a sneaky scotch or whatever your poison!

You're a bit of a legend in my eyes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## librarydragon

Impressive, Sham, impressive.

I have to admit, I was worried you didn't have it in you at first. You should be proud of yourself. In the months and years to come, this infidelity won't be what defines you...your strength will be. You are going to rise above it...you already have.

Can I offer a couple tidbits of advice? 

It's tough to retain friends of the marriage. Unless you want to involve yourself in the she said-he said thing (and you don't), it's really difficult to keep these relationships healthy. You just don't know what's being passed along to your wife, so you'll always be on guard. The best thing is to create a new life that includes new friends. 

And...continue to ignore those ridiculous text messages from your wife. There's no winning in that type of toxic exchange. BUT...keep them and any other email that you do have or receive. You never know when a paper trail might become necessary.

I hope you stick around to offer your wisdom and experience to others. Well done.


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## tokn

First of all congratulations to SW I'm glad you are ok and how it turned out for you, although divorce does suck (been through one myself) I'm glad you didn't R (more for my own pleasure hehe) because she didn't deserve an upstanding man like you.

Through out your ordeal you've shown monumentus character and composure. I can only hope to aspire to be half the man you are, and if knowing myself I would have cracked many times over lol.

From start to finish this thread has made me reflect on myself, and really opened my eyes on my failings in past relationships.

Props to you my man you are my hero and best wishes on your new life and when you're ready, I hope you find the woman that is truly deserving of you.

Thank you so much, this thread has been an eye opener for myself.

I have a bromantic crush on you (no ****) :rofl:


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## F-102

All men going thru this should wear bracelets that say: WWSWD.

"What Would Shamwow Do?"


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## lordmayhem

F-102 said:


> All men going thru this should wear bracelets that say: WWSWD.
> 
> "What Would Shamwow Do?"


:smthumbup:

What a megathread! So no doubt this was an exit affair, with the WW completely unremorseful about it, even blameshifting and calling Shamwow sick. Her comment about the woman already having her exit strategy planned out in advance clearly matches her actions in the last few months. Shamwow did a great job of detecting the affair, investigating, and ultimately confronting. The threw a monkey wrench into her exit plans by heading her off at the pass, which she clearly wasn't expecting.

Her response was basically a mea culpa, with no indications of wanting R, thus proving it was an exit affair. I have no doubt that she was a good wife at one time who might have actually loved Shamwow at some point, but clearly not very deeply. But like many WS's, she eventually got bored and wanted to move on to someone new. This is definitely not a person that will honor a lifetime commitment, and is only there while "it's fun" or until she tires of the person she's with. She will probably fairly quickly get into another relationship or marriage and will stay with that man as long as the fun lasts, then move on again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Such people are fairly shallow.


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## Stonewall

Harp32Wil said:


> She is looking for more passionate sex and you are not giving it to her. You are too worried about losing her and you are no being Alpha enough. She is getting that somewhere else now it seems. If by some miracle she is not having sex with someone else she has told you what she expects from you adn you are not doing it.


You might want to read this entire thread dude. You are way behind the eight ball.


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## jezza

Looks like this thread has run its course.....


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## Almostrecovered

he has a new thread in the divorce forum


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## Almostrecovered

hard to believe that this has been almost a year ago, hope things are still great for you sham


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## mina

what a great thread. I spent my entire morning reading it, epic. what a sad story for ShamWow but even the wife, she is obviously clueless and just a victim of everyone else not loving her enough. it must be hard to go through life so entitled and delusional.


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## SomedayDig

I can't believe I read the WHOLE thing!!

Totally EPIC. Sham the man.


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## Almostrecovered

I should go back and see if I was at all helpful


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## SomedayDig

Well...since page 3 you told him to tell OMW...

He did around page 150. LOL


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## Almostrecovered

SomedayDig said:


> Well...since page 3 you told him to tell OMW...
> 
> He did around page 150. LOL



oh crap that's right, I was totally harassing him about that, I think I mentioned, "this is the last time I'll say this, but you should expose" at least 6 times


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## happyman64

Almostrecovered said:


> oh crap that's right, I was totally harassing him about that, I think I mentioned, "this is the last time I'll say this, but you should expose" at least 6 times


And I think by now Sham would agree with you.....


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## Almostrecovered

Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"





Almostrecovered said:


> "have you told OMW yet?"


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## SomedayDig

OMG!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Gabriel

This thread consumed my life for a few weeks. I was so roped in, rooting for Sham. In the end, he won, which made it so satisfying to follow. 

t's the thread against which all threads should be judged.


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## the guy

Over 290,000 views...Almostrecovered had a big part of the count.LOL


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## Caribbean Man

I read this thread for the FIRST time today.....
It was like a thriller Movie,

Only thing was that it was too real to be a Movie


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## one_strange_otter

I get that ol' sham stood up for himself pretty quickly and that he got out relatively unscathed....but I don't get the epic part. 

Is it epic because it went 184 pages? Then another 85 in the other thread? I mean, not to diminish what happened to him but it's like every other CWI story you hear. She traveled, she cheated, she lied, he found out, he left. I've read all of this one and all of the other one and I'm glad that he is in a better place now. It's sad what one stupid decision can do to your life. 

Wish we could get people to come back like a year after and give updates and let us know if they are still doing great and if the karma bus is still running over their WS's.


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## costa200

> Is it epic because it went 184 pages?


No, it's epic because it unfolded while Sham was getting solid advice from people in the forum. It's one of those few situations where he managed to avoid a lot of trouble because he had cooler heads guiding him trough the process.

That and the fact that he totally proof nailed his wife to the wall and went dark on her like a boss.


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## lordmayhem

Fortunately for Shamwow, there were no children involved on his end. Having children, especially young children, changes the whole dynamics of the situation. Many people with children and a lot of years invested in the marriage, face financial devastation in a divorce. Hence the fear of losing the marriage, breaking up the family and children's lives, child support, child custody battles, etc.


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## Amplexor

lordmayhem said:


> Fortunately for Shamwow, there were no children involved on his end. Having children, especially young children, changes the whole dynamics of the situation. Many people with children and a lot of years invested in the marriage, face financial devastation in a divorce. Hence the fear of losing the marriage, breaking up the family and children's lives, child support, child custody battles, etc.


:iagree:

A huge difference with kids. None of this is cut and dried but with kids in the mixture it can make a lot of spouses go the extra mile to try make the marriage work. And luckily in some cases, success.


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## Harken Banks

This was the first thread I read coming to TAM. Stuff of legend.


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## Shamwow

Wow...it's officially been a year since I started posting here. I think I'll post a brief update in the next couple days over in my second thread (Go Time...). Have a good night all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JamesAiden

Hello its my first time posting on this forum but I've read a couple posts this one intrigues me and I want to know the details that happened but I don't wanna browse through 274 pages (on mobile) so if it's not too much asked can someone give me a quick tl;Dr or a résumé it would be much appreciated currently I'm reading the other post of shamwow the "after divorce" and I intended to read it all but I think I would have a better image if I knew what the ex-W really did so sorry for the long post hope someone will see this its been 3 years after all.


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## EleGirl

JamesAiden said:


> Hello its my first time posting on this forum but I've read a couple posts this one intrigues me and I want to know the details that happened but I don't wanna browse through 274 pages (on mobile) so if it's not too much asked can someone give me a quick tl;Dr or a résumé it would be much appreciated currently I'm reading the other post of shamwow the "after divorce" and I intended to read it all but I think I would have a better image if I knew what the ex-W really did so sorry for the long post hope someone will see this its been 3 years after all.


James, 

This is a very old thread. The OP is not posting here anymore. I doubt that anyone will give you a rundown.

If you want to know what happened in his situation, your best bet is to just read his posts. Skip the others for the most part. There can be pages and pages of posts between the posts by the OP. So that should be a lot quicker.

I'm going to lock this thread since the OP is long gone and not here to read further responses on this thread.

You are welcome to start your own thread.


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