# The cat is out of the bag... operation wolf pack



## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

I exposed my knowledge of affair to the OM tonight. I wasn't really ready, but the issues it was causing with my kids was too much to take anymore.

In my case it was as simple as calling the OM, explaining the damage he was doing to my family, and telling him it had to stop. My wife came home a couple of hours later and told me OM had called her to say he did not want to see her anymore because of what I had told him.

I am taking this with a grain of salt of course, and will not believe that it is really over until contact stops, and WW's actions match her words.

I received the exact line I was expecting... "blah blah blah so you took control."

I told her that it wasn't even my idea to call him directly, which was true. She wanted to know who's idea it was, I told her that wasn't really any of her business!

There was some pretty short and pointless conversation in the middle where she tried to dig me for details of what I knew and how I knew it. I didn't tell her anything. (She still has no clue of all of the dirt I have on the OM.)

I did give her one little nugget of dirt I have on him, that he is using a deceased person's social security number. She asked me how I could possibly know that, and that she doesn't think she can believe me. HA! I replied with "now you know how it feels when you can't trust your spouse."

Hello there shoe, I would like to introduce you to my good friend, other foot.

The conversation ended with a sarcastic "... well congratulations, you got what you wanted."

I didn't reply, but its pretty funny how cheaters are so screwed up in the head they think a man calling another man on the carpet for scr*wing his wife behind his back, in an attempt save his family, is somehow controlling and selfish.

I remain skeptical if this is the end of the affair, or who knows, maybe there is more than one guy out there (please no).

Thank you so much to everyone who helped me make it this far. Even if the affair is ongoing, its no longer easy street, but I really am hopeful that this is the end of the affair, and the beginning of healing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you give him any "incentive" to stay away from your family?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Will you call his workplace?


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Did you give him any "incentive" to stay away from your family?


Well, after I talked to him I saw that he had called her right away and talked for 5+ minutes, so I called him back and told him that if there is anyone living at a certain address who he might not want to know about the affair, then he best never talk to my wife again.

Hey, its his choice. If he thinks my wife is worth all that drama, you know, large southern baptist family learning about OM being one party to adultery, then maybe he deserves her.


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

She'll only stop when she's ready, all you've done is piss her off. Just to spite you she'll find another and be more carful.  Sorry but this is not the first time one of us has "stopped" the affair. W/O any remorse, there is no telling what she'll do.
Be safe, file for divorce!!
Mouse


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry, but I don't think you got what you wanted. They will take it underground.

A good reply to your wife would have been "no, what I wanted was a faithful wife. Instead you are here honey."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Talking to the OM won't keep him away and it only made him more of martyr to her I think.

If you've got proof he's using a dead mans SSN then report the fraud he is comitting.there must be a arty reason he is engaged in identify theft. It could be his real identity has warrants out for him? Either way exposé his fraud to the IRS and Soc Sec afmin for starters. This dude will be much less of threat to your marriage if he is behind bars.

This guy is using a fake SSN identity, and screwing a married woman. Do you really think he really is gonna just back off after a call? Sorry, doubt that. Also inform his employer of the identity theft. Burn this guy hard, don't waste time trying to chase him off. It won't work,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Agreed with Shaggy.

Threatning him will only show them the card in your hand nothing more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

LoveMouse said:


> She'll only stop when she's ready, all you've done is piss her off. Just to spite you she'll find another and be more carful.  Sorry but this is not the first time one of us has "stopped" the affair. W/O any remorse, there is no telling what she'll do.
> Be safe, file for divorce!!
> Mouse


I'm not sure what I am going to do at this point. Lots of people saying its normal for WS to throw a multi-day fit when they get dumped.

All I did was tell the dude he was hurting my family, and he ran like the wind (assuming that its really over and not underground). That has to hurt when someone has been telling you they love you for months and drops you like a dirty dish rag at the first hiccup in the affair. "Husband knows and he's pissed, I'm outa here!"

I have been fighting like hell for my family for two weeks, and this guy doesn't even fight for one second.

Translation: he was using her for sex.

WW translation: husband doesn't want me to be happy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think this was a good move. Yes they might very well take it underground. But there are ways that you can keep an eye on her and find out if she does see him or start another affair.

This might be a good time for you to tell her that there are only two choices here... she works to recover your marriage or she leaves (with out the children) and the two of you divorce.

Once you expose that you know about the affair you have to take a strong stance.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Talking to the OM won't keep him away and it only made him more of martyr to her I think.
> 
> If you've got proof he's using a dead mans SSN then report the fraud he is comitting.there must be a arty reason he is engaged in identify theft. It could be his real identity has warrants out for him? Either way exposé his fraud to the IRS and Soc Sec afmin for starters. This dude will be much less of threat to your marriage if he is behind bars.
> 
> ...


Did I say I was done? I just had to get it rolling earlier than I wanted to because my oldest daughter is really getting hurt.

I have enough stuff to burn this guy, don't worry.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

keko said:


> Agreed with Shaggy.
> 
> Threatning him will only show them the card in your hand nothing more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I showed him zero cards out of many, I showed WW one card out of many. I did not want to start this yet, but I really had no choice.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

There is only one form of contact that is effective with an OM and it is illegal in all 50 states and PR.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> I showed him zero cards out of many, I showed WW one card out of many. I did not want to start this yet, but I really had no choice.


You mentioned an address of him/his relative right? That might have him start preparing his family for the upcoming fallout.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I think this was a good move. Yes they might very well take it underground. But there are ways that you can keep an eye on her and find out if she does see him or start another affair.
> 
> This might be a good time for you to tell her that there are only two choices here... she works to recover your marriage or she leaves (with out the children) and the two of you divorce.
> 
> Once you expose that you know about the affair you have to take a strong stance.


I am dead tired, so for now I am going to hold off on anything until I can discuss this latest development with my supporters tomorrow.

This is really tough because on this site you have people that say to bury your emotions and drop the nuke before the intelligence is even gathered, and other people who say just stay true to yourself and don't make any irreversible knee-jerk moves.

I am in the "run everything by your supporters, but have launch codes punched in and fire button armed" camp.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I actually think the call was more like " your husband called me. I'm surprised the wimp idiot found me. Can you actually believe it? Hah. Look I don't want to have to deal with his stupid drama, so we need to find a better way to hookup, I'll get us a coupe of prepaid phones, and you get a new email he doen't know about. Tell him we talked and it's over etc, but I'll see you on Monday afternoon for our usual hook up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

keko said:


> You mentioned an address of him/his relative right? That might have him start preparing his family for the upcoming fallout.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly, this was on purpose. That should keep him busy while I finalize the stuff that is really gonna hurt.  Nowumsayin?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Just wondering, between all of this stuff are you sleeping in the same bed/room as your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get off Hopeful's back. If he's got a plan let him run with it. As smart as we all think we are we don't know everything. And who care s what his b!tch of a wife thinks or says. I don't get the idea H is wanting to reconcile with her anyway. 

Only thing is H, you should not have tipped her off about the SS thing. That was dumb. Quit telling her. She's your enemy and his spy. 

Keep going forward with the divorce and digging up dirt. Make a strong a case as you can against her to get the most out of the divorce that you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Know this , we are all rooting for your successfully ending the affair and squashing the dirt bag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Get off Hopeful's back. If he's got a plan let him run with it. As smart as we all think we are we don't know everything. And who care s what his b!tch of a wife thinks or says. I don't get the idea H is wanting to reconcile with her anyway.
> 
> Only thing is H, you should not have tipped her off about the SS thing. That was dumb. Quit telling her. She's your enemy and his spy.
> 
> ...


I'm not stupid, I'm giving out these things ON PURPOSE. OM having to prep his family just in case and possibly having to explain to my wife why I think he is using a dead guy's SSN are both AWESOME for me.

These bits of info are a joke compared to the real stuff.

Calvin if u are around, please tell them "I got this."

Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with my wife who is living in my house and possible going to completely fly off the handle, or am I just going to get crap for doing things that can't be undone.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> I am dead tired, so for now I am going to hold off on anything until I can discuss this latest development with my supporters tomorrow.
> 
> This is really tough because on this site you have people that say to bury your emotions and drop the nuke before the intelligence is even gathered, and other people who say just stay true to yourself and don't make any irreversible knee-jerk moves.
> 
> I am in the "run everything by your supporters, but have launch codes punched in and fire button armed" camp.


I'm in the gather information and enact a smart plan camp.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with my wife who is living in my house and possible going to completely fly off the handle, or am I just going to get crap for doing things that can't be undone.


Why do you think she is going “to completely fly off the handle”? She already was snarky when she told you he ended the affair. What do you expect she will do now that you have to handle?

A good way to handle it is not know what you want from her and the relationship. If she tries to start an argument/fight do not engage her. Just tell her that you are not willing to discuss things when she is having a fit. That you want to repair the marriage and will be happy to talk about it when she’s in a calm mode. Then just walk away.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> I showed him zero cards out of many, I showed WW one card out of many. I did not want to start this yet, but I really had no choice.


You did great, IMO. These ****roaches fear exposure. 
even though you are holding exposure as your trump card, I think you should go ahead and expose him to whoever(family, wife etc) anyway.
Thye say you should also expose your wife to her family , as well.
This Harley fellow at marriagebuilders suggests you tell your kids, too, Not sure if you alread did this, as you mention your daughter being hurt already. 
I told my kids the whole shebang(pun intended).


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

This Old Wolf is down with ya Bro. Chess Moves. throw a pawn for the bishop, throw a bishop for the king. You are a wounded Wolf, savor your hard won meal. Let your timetable be yours and your buddy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> You did great, IMO. These ****roaches fear exposure.
> even though you are holding exposure as your trump card, I think you should go ahead and expose him to whoever(family, wife etc) anyway.
> Thye say you should also expose your wife to her family , as well.
> This Harley fellow at marriagebuilders suggests you tell your kids, too, Not sure if you alread did this, as you mention your daughter being hurt already.
> I told my kids the whole shebang(pun intended).


Marriagebuilders & Dr. Harley have a lot of good info. The things that MB says to do... which is along the line of what others are saying to do here work.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with my wife who is living in my house and possible going to completely fly off the handle, or am I just going to get crap for doing things that can't be undone.


yes, and it really tweaks them: stay calm and smile a lot. They hate that you aren't mad like then, and deep down you smiling treats them like a child having a tantrum and that they aren't worthy of you loosing it.

So smile and talk in a soft soothing voice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> I think some here get so into it, that they get impaient for the next chapter. Push the nuke button at your leez.


Its my own fault for not posting a summary of the thread I had to trash because people were filling in blanks on their own, and then other people were taking it as fact.

I might just start over tomorrow lol. This is ridonkulous.

I'm prolly just way too exhausted.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Yeah, it says to do it even in these type situations(actually, especially with the defiant, unremorsful cheater).
> Apparently, the folks at marriagebuildrs feel that an unremorseful, a-hole type wife or husband can be turned around by the impositon of consequences, like the embarrassment and shame caused by exposing.
> Many on that site claim it was the imposition of these consequences that began the processo of the cheater acting like a decent human being again.


I've seen it work over and over again with cheaters.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi
I would urge you to expose the POS if you want the affair to end. She will be really angry but his life will fall to bits. At the moment he is getting his cake and eating it. Her too. 
Please just expose it. nothing kills an affair like sunlight. Even afte 12 months exposure can have amazing effects. 
Your ramping up consequences and I get that. The problem is that she is massively in the Fog and what you think is extreme is probably not going to bust it. She needs thermonuclear.

In this order and time frame..

Expose. Don't tell her. Don't warn him
They will both go into a massive panic trying to stuff the affair back in its compartments. After a few days and it is obvious that they can't stop the exposure. she will get really angry "how dare you take my toy.."
Don't let her blame you for the consequences and she will try believe me!

You put the filled in divorce papers on the table. You are not bluffing. If that doesn't bust the Fog you are better off out. 

You can always stop a divorce..

I am in favor of a Rolling Thunder approach. Exposure after massive Exposure to everyone.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

I think you made a fine start Mr.hopeful & everyones situation is different and playing all cards at once, is not the way to go. Don't let others get you down.

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


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## JustWaiting (Jun 28, 2011)

If it is really a fake SS, go on the IRS website, file a report on him, and spend the 15% reward on whatever he hasn't declared for a vacation after you D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> I'm not stupid, I'm giving out these things ON PURPOSE. OM having to prep his family just in case and possibly having to explain to my wife why I think he is using a dead guy's SSN are both AWESOME for me.
> 
> These bits of info are a joke compared to the real stuff.
> 
> ...


Oh hes's got this indeed,we have been PMing eachother,he's got his sh!t together on this one trust me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well that explains the dip in my post count


let me ask though- is OM married or not?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Mr.Hopeful--hope you saw AR's question above about whether or not the OM is married or has a GF.

I'm just chiming in to give some support. I had two small kids close in age to yours around the time of DD#1 and it was all I could do to put one foot in front of the other. To have to mastermind an intelligence gathering operation with betrayals from my mom and even neighbors, while having my WS wander in and out of the picture in terms of where they were staying, etc., and then having them be in the house with tension and hostility toward me while I was doing all I could to save the marriage and nuke the affair, I would have had a breakdown.

You've heard it before, but make sure you are taking in enough calories, take a brisk walk around the block if you can't fit in more exercise, and get as much sleep as you possibly can. It's easy for a parent of young kids to rob peter to pay paul (i.e. stay up late to get stuff done when they're not around) but now is not the time. If you are not on antidepressants yet, get those too. It's about gathering strength from every direction to face this thing.

Forums work via consensus. That means, many different voices chime in with their opinions. At the start the forum consensus works you over to get you out of the dream that the affair will just magically end because you cry out in deep pain in front of your spouse. You see that just like the rest of us, that simply doesn't happen.

But after that, it's logistics in terms of bringing reality to your spouse to break the affair. You can only have so many appointments and intelligence gathering, etc. in a day. It's easy to armchair quarterback. You made a choice based on what you have in front of you, don't second guess it now, it's just a waste of energy.

Stay strong and focused, work your plan.

Perhaps you were meant to see your spouse's reaction to that bit of info re the OM. Brace yourself, it's still a long road ahead.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It's good your WW is pissed, your making the affair inconvinent and complicated.
I think you did great. You have the support from the ones closes to the sitch, you have support here, You took all these perspectives and implimented a plan that work for you and your daughter at the time deamed necesary.

It sound like one trigger is pulled and step back and go from there.

Who knows what will happen in the next few days. Now its your WW move. And now you have the tools to see it and take the move that best fits hers.

I think it was well played do to the conditions you were faced with.


I like it, confront OM before WW let OM confront WW and avoid the denial, blameshifting, gaslightinging. Sure it will come in time but I still think the OM confrontation was effective but only time will tell.

We all know the script that could have played out if OP confronted WW, OP avoided that *for now* by going to OM 1st.

My advise, now start the 180! get the ball rolling with consequences by seperating money and closing accounts. Wait for more contact between WW and OM and pull the next rigger(it won't be long) by exposing the hell out of this. What say ye supporters?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

calvin said:


> Oh hes's got this indeed,we have been PMing eachother,he's got his sh!t together on this one trust me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good. Can't wait for the next chapter. It's like an Ian Fleming novel.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Not knowing the financial situation, I'm not sure about separating finances. OP is a SAHMD? But works from home? It all depends.

Good luck with war on POSOM. I'm hopeful for your family too. So glad you got the PI. Alot of people can't/won't afford one but divorce is a thousand times more expensive, very often ending with two poverty stricken familes if not four. Hope youu can make POSOM think again before he tries to destroy another family.

Different opinions are going to give you more options but pick what you think is best for your situation. Also, you have been given some excellent advice on reading material that will most assuredly explain to you how you and your wife got in this situation (particularly MMSL) and what to do about it whether you divorce or reconcile.

Good luck and prayers for your family

Chap


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I actually think the call was more like " your husband called me. I'm surprised the wimp idiot found me. Can you actually believe it? Hah. Look I don't want to have to deal with his stupid drama, so we need to find a better way to hookup, I'll get us a coupe of prepaid phones, and you get a new email he doen't know about. Tell him we talked and it's over etc, but I'll see you on Monday afternoon for our usual hook up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Keep this in your mind, dont trust the words of a cheater, they open their mouth to lie.

Dont think that they will end their A soon..........


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

All we need to make this more exciting is for Jason Bourne to drop down from a skylight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> All we need to make this more exciting is for Jason Bourne to drop down from a skylight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OT - My favorite spy movie/trilogy ever!!!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

*"I love it when a plan comes together"*
~General Peppard


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *"I love it when a plan comes together"*
> ~General Peppard


well played.

took this thread to legendary status IMO


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *"I love it when a plan comes together"*
> ~General Peppard


Wouldn't that be Colonel Smith? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

not to get off the subject, but Bourne is only a small part of the writings of the author. he wrote lots of good stuff.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who posted over the past few days with support. I have been too exhausted and mentally drained to keep this thread up to date, but I am still here.

I have an update for you guys. I don't have a lot of time, so I am going to drop it in very condensed format.

What you already know...

* Sunday night I called the OM

* There was still contact that night, so I threatened exposure to family

New stuff......

* All quiet Monday, except for angry WW

* OM contacted WW Tuesday over text. I was really pissed but not surprised.

* I had therapy Tuesday morning, brought counselor up to speed. Counselor says she is amazed how clearly I am thinking and how I am still somehow making very rational decisions. I have my supporters to thank for this, on and off line.

* Of course I couldn't let OM call my bluff about exposure, but I was very conflicted so I went to a church for the first time in 20 years and spoke to a minister. His advice was that the truth is meant to be revealed, and maybe this is OM's cry for help, and he needs his family's support.

* So I called his Momma. A very, very sweet old lady (widow of a southern baptist minister) who was shocked that her son was involved with a married woman. "I got 3 boys, and didn't raise them that way."

His mother said she would "gather the family" and sit him down and remind him of how he was brought up, and that any relationship with a married woman, especially if they have children, is a dead end.

The most amazing part of this is that I told her that my mother knew and didn't tell me. Instead of being shocked, she told me I need to leave a place in my heart to forgive my mother. She told me that any mother worth her salt can't hurt their child on purpose, and no matter how bad she wanted to tell me, the knowledge that the truth would cause me great pain made it impossible for her to tell me.

I know half of you guys are going to think I am mental, but I will forever be in debt to this woman who I only spoke to briefly because she gave me some deep insight into the heart of a mother who has been through the same thing... what?

YES, the OM was married previously, his wife cheated on HIM and it killed the marriage. His mother knew some information about the affair which her son did not know, and even though it would have helped him to deal with the situation, she could not bring herself to tell him because she was afraid to make an already painful situation even worse.

* The conversation with the OM's mother put me in a really peaceful state and I sat down with WW and tried to have a heart to heart about doing all of the work that needs to be done to start healing. What I got was "I am so angry at you." and "Did you call his mother? That is so messed up." She threw in some stuff about not sure if she could trust me not to let everything go back to the way it was.

That was the last straw... I told her that there is no way in hell that I am the only reason she was unhappy. If she was so unhappy with me she should have dumped my a** before she went on an booze binge, had unprotected sex with a stranger, dragged my mother into it, and lied to me for months while spending time with OM she should have been spending with her kids, and I quote... "If you want to sit there and talk about anger and truth when it comes to *me*, well I'm not going to sit here and take that sh*t."

I was super calm. She got pissed and ran out of the house.

* While she was out of the house, OM called me. Yes you read that right. He told me it was over, begged me to forgive him, told me he is so embarrassed and that he had no business getting involved with my wife, that his family reminded him how he was brought up and that is going to work hard on getting back on the right path. I can't be sure, but I think Momma was listening in. I am not much of an empath, but he sounded sincere as hell.

* I called WW to tell her he called me and she completely fell apart.

* I am pretty sure the affair is over because there has been no contact. Wednesday morning WW looked like someone killed her puppy, chopped it up, and made her eat it medium rare.

* She went to the counselor, and upon returning declared "it just seemed pointless." My aunt told me her husband said the exact same thing, lol. The script is just crazy. I still can't wrap my head around it.

* From then until now, it can all be summed up as "angry as hell." Apparently discussing birthday plans for my WW with a mutual friend should be a crime only the Hague can solve with a tribunal.

My status......

* Lost 12 pounds in 7 days.
* Running out of fight
* Wondering where the remorse is, and if it will ever come

Just a heads up, because so many people are calling for it, I have discussed the option of filing for divorce, and not one person in my friends or family or counselor or anyone outside of this forum thinks that is even remotely a good idea for our circumstance, so please take that off the table for now, as that is only going to happen if its necessary to get my kids back to the marital home in case she takes off.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Have you or your wife ever brought up divorce to each other?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good work. Your wife is going to have to go through withdrawal...

Keep us posted and if she starts to come around, there are steps to take to reconcile. 

Do not let your guard down, it wouldn't be the first time the POSOM lied.

Good luck and prayers for your family

Chap


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## Regina007 (Feb 24, 2012)

I am glad you're exhausting all the options left on the table before deciding on divorce.

That OM's mother sounds like such a sweet lady and very understanding. It's wonderful and something positive out of that situation for you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> "Did you call his mother? That is so messed up." She threw in some stuff about not sure if she could trust me not to let everything go back to the way it was.
> 
> "If you want to sit there and talk about anger and truth when it comes to *me*, well I'm not going to sit here and take that sh*t."
> *** I was super calm.


Affair partners always twist exposure--to the OM's family, of all people--into something that is "sick" for you to do. She's embarrassed as h8ll and it throws a wrench into her plans of ever being presented to mama as the sweet divorcee and mother of two (not that many Southern Baptists would want that for their sons, anyhow) who your son "just happened" to meet.

Remember that WSs such as your wife have lost their moral compass. They can only see exposure as your desire for blood and revenge--they have not yet emerged from their fantasy land and want to project their guilt on to you any way they can.

You are a lucky, lucky bastard that the mom reacted that way and that she still holds true to her faith. Single APs are very dangerous to marriages, for obvious reasons, and single APs with no family (or a family who gives a rat's ***) are the worst. I am also glad (and this might be the only time I say this) that he was betrayed by his own wife, that at least is another factor in the way his family would react to all of this.

Here's the thing: it is such a huge compulsion--after all, they view each other as 'best friends in the whole world'--that he will almost surely reach out to her again. Don't forget, he told your Mom that he wanted your wife "forever."

I am curious how the shady side / two SSN #'s etc. went down, or if you are holding any more cards in reserve.

You deserve some rest, gotta keep up the strength, no telling what another day will bring.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Filing for D is not an option? Well, good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

snap said:


> Filing for D is not an option? Well, good luck.


I get the impression D is definitely an otion, just not optionnumber 1.

Hopeful definitely needs to be taliking to an attorney and letting his wife know it too.

Good post heartlife, I'm also wondering what else he has in his bag.

Keep that VAR going. It ain't over till its over.

Be sure to mention that she is the one that put his family in turmoil not the messenger.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Great fu*cking job man. Be proud, buck up! Reach deep, you have lots more strength in there. Be the hero! Keep that pressure consistant, show unwavering conviction. You've done GREAT work, Stand tall, you may not know it right now but to the OM and your DS your appear to be a giant, a rock. Your actions are conveying strength. Don't doubt that.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Keep that divorce card in your hand, it is not off the table. That is your trump card, and it is NOT to be used as a bluff. Addiction is nasty business my friend, your fighting for your life, your marriage and your family. When your playing for keeps, you don't holster the big gun.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You were very fortunate in that fact that the OM's mother took the stance she did. I called the OM's pastor and his employer (who knew the OM's pastor) and he asked me if I called the OM"S pastor. THe OM's employer was more concerned about me then the OM. I doubt that you will have to worry about the OM at this point. This is a classic example of how exposure works to end an A. Unfortunately there are too many examples here on TAM where exposure did not result in this kind of ending.

Now you need to deal with your wife.

Since D is off the table you need to be very careful about how you approach R. D is a powerful tool when a WS discovers that the OM can't be in her life. Because if she comes running back and you throw D at her it can quicken the remorse response. I would not tell your WS that D is off the table. I would not mention it at all in your case since it is off the table. But I would not tell her that you would not consider it. Don't let her know how you feel about D. If you lay your hand down and tell her, honey I would never D you, she could play you big time and think I got away with this one, he will never ever D me, no matter what I do. SO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW YOU TALK ABOUT D. I will say it again, do not let her know that in your mind D is not on the table. I understand where you are coming from and support you in your view of D, but do not throw out the thought that everyone you know, your counselor, etc. thinks D is not a good idea to your wife. If she brings it up just say right now we will not discuss D and move on. (This is just my opinion).

Now you are going to have to look at how to R.

And only if your wife comes back and wants to work it out.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> I am not much of an empath


I know you have bigger fish to fry, but just out of curiousity, is this something that you hear your wife say about you? Is this something that she might think that she's missing and sought in the OM? (of course NOTHING justifies what she did) just curious. 

It just reminded me of HerHusband's thread. He's also not into big emotional shows.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wait, doesn't this seem a little too easy? This guy is very shady and a call to mama gets him to apologize and go away? Sorry, if this guy had such high values he wouldn't be dating a married woman with kids.

I'm worried that you are getting played and he will be back. I'm also worried that you are revealing that you know if they've been in contact, that will help them figure out how to take it underground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wait, doesn't this seem a little too easy? This guy is very shady and a call to mama gets him to apologize and go away? Sorry, if this guy had such high values he wouldn't be dating a married woman with kids.
> 
> I'm worried that you are getting played and he will be back. I'm also worried that you are revealing that you know if they've been in contact, that will help them figure out how to take it underground.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While it is possible you are right, Shaggy, I've seen some pretty bada*s dudes completely wither when it comes down to their mothers.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The OM and WW will take it underground. You better get your rest Mr. H because they are just going to work harder to hide it. This affair isn't over. Your wife is especially stubborn, more than most WWs we see here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wait, doesn't this seem a little too easy? This guy is very shady and a call to mama gets him to apologize and go away? Sorry, if this guy had such high values he wouldn't be dating a married woman with kids.
> 
> I'm worried that you are getting played and he will be back.  I'm also worried that you are revealing that you know if they've been in contact, that will help them figure out how to take it underground.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It may have been that easy. Some families and folks that are involved in a church will have quite a bit of pressure put on them and even if they wanted to continue the A they will not be able to in an easy way. The guy is shady but he will be watched. I would also expose it to the pastor if the guy is involved in a church.

Not saying that it could go further underground but this could have ended and never again be resurrected.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> The OM and WW will take it underground. You better get your rest Mr. H because they are just going to work harder to hide it. This affair isn't over. Your wife is especially stubborn, more than most WWs we see here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


as chap said, keep that VAR going with fresh batteries

as Shaggy said, NEVER reveal your sources

if you haven't GPS'd the truck yet, time to do that too


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Have you and your wife been tested for STD's yet?

Taking the potential for divorce off the table is a very bad idea. It sends a clear message to your wife that you are willing to accept extreme forms of humiliation and disrespect and accepting putting your health at risk for STD's without consequences to her. If the roles were reversed would your wife accept all of this from you? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. Good luck.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Don't worry guys, I am def not sitting around giving high fives to myself. Its all just words, I am only paying attention to actions.

For all of you glass half full ppl, exposing the affair to his family is a joke compared to the real dirt I have on this guy. I still need time to build up a stronger case, but there isn't really any wiggle room for him. Just crossing "T"s and dotting "I"s. If I get even a whiff that they are still communicating, this guy is going to wish he listened to his mamma.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

bryanp said:


> Have you and your wife been tested for STD's yet?
> 
> Taking the potential for divorce off the table is a very bad idea. It sends a clear message to your wife that you are willing to accept extreme forms of humiliation and disrespect and accepting putting your health at risk for STD's without consequences to her. If the roles were reversed would your wife accept all of this from you? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. Good luck.


Its only off the table *for now* (re-read my post) while I see if she comes around and shows any remorse. My point was that I am not going to use divorce as a weapon to bring her around, only a final solution to guarantee my own happiness and/or protect my kids.

Divorce is the biggest weapon I have, but it would absolutely destroy us financially and that would hurt my kids. I am getting legal and financial advice so this is not me making stuff up or wishful thinking or whatever.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

off to get my own bucket of popcorn!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> Divorce is the biggest weapon I have, but it would absolutely destroy us financially and that would hurt my kids. I am getting legal and financial advice so this is not me making stuff up or wishful thinking or whatever.


Just don't tell her that D isn't an option. That is all everyone is begging you NOT to do.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

bryanp said:


> Have you and your wife been tested for STD's yet?
> 
> Taking the potential for divorce off the table is a very bad idea. It sends a clear message to your wife that you are willing to accept extreme forms of humiliation and disrespect and accepting putting your health at risk for STD's without consequences to her. If the roles were reversed would your wife accept all of this from you? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. Good luck.


Its too soon for me to be tested. I have the lab order, but I have to wait at least a week more before they draw the blood. The longer I wait the more accurate the results. I'm not even a little bit in the mood for sex, so don't worry about me spreading anything, hehe.

I have mentioned more than once to my wife how pissed I am that I have to get tested for STDs. Its soul crushing having to sit around wondering what I might have in me.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Mr. Hopeful. Iheartlife said it best. We are just saying do not tell her that D is not an option for now. It should always be in the back of her mind what the consequences of her actions will lead to.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Just don't tell her that D isn't an option. That is all everyone is begging you NOT to do.


I would never tell anyone that anything is off the table. The only reason I said its off the table for now is because so many people on the site keep telling me to file divorce as a wake up call, which I don't believe is a good use of such a powerful action.

I'm not going to go the divorce route until I feel its the only remaining option to protect my happiness or to protect my kids.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> I'm not going to go the divorce route until I feel its the only remaining option to protect my happiness or to protect my kids.


 Your wife is a cheater that has shown no remorse, is in your face about the other man (OM), and introduced the OM to your mother (your children's grandmother). She continued contact with the OM after you confronted her and is openly angry with you for trying to stop the affair. The loving wife that you think that you knew is gone forever. Why are you still tying your happiness to someone like this?


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

TRy said:


> Your wife is a cheater that has shown no remorse, is in your face about the other man (OM), and introduced the OM to your mother (your children's grandmother). She continued contact with the OM after you confronted her and is openly angry with you for trying to stop the affair. The loving wife that you think that you knew is gone forever. Why are you still tying your happiness to someone like this?


I'm not going to defend my decision to try and save my family anymore. I'm going for it, everyone has to deal with that.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

do you know if she told him you know about him using a false SS## ? With you calling his mom, he has to wonder what else you know. so don't take much stock in him calling you crying "mea culpa", in spite of his upbring, he is still shady.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

you do you Bro. never mind others. on some other threads, a survey showed 80% of D parents wished they R. So some here understand your stance.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

The man has a plan and he is going for it. This will be a great thread to learn new possibilities when battling the fog or learn from the mistakes.

For your sake, I hope you don't make any mistakes, but they happen. Good luck, you have the silent majority watching the thread with nothing to add. I love that you told his mom.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> do you know if she told him you know about him using a false SS## ? With you calling his mom, he has to wonder what else you know. so don't take much stock in him calling you crying "mea culpa", in spite of his upbring, he is still shady.


I am trying to verify the SSN stuff. I can only go by what the bg report says, so for now shady until proven otherwise.

Nobody need worry about me letting this guy off the hook. This site has done a fine job drilling it into my brain that words don't mean anything.

The only real "evidence" if you want to call it that of the affair being over is that WW underwent a dramatic change overnight. She is constantly crying for no reason, angry, sad, angry, sad. She looks like someone killed her puppy and fed it to her then ran her over with a leaky manure truck.

This is a MASSIVE change from before where I was getting the ****iness, the strutting, the coldness.

Now I am just getting anger thrown at me, which seems to be following the script of "post affair" pretty closely. Both of my family supporters who have dealt with this are telling me their WS spouse behaved exactly the same when the affair was over "for real" (in hindsight of course).

I am not taking my foot off the gas though as far as building up a case to nuke this guy.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> The man has a plan and he is going for it. This will be a great thread to learn new possibilities when battling the fog or learn from the mistakes.
> 
> For your sake, I hope you don't make any mistakes, but they happen. Good luck, you have the silent majority watching the thread with nothing to add. I love that you told his mom.


Thanks for this, means a lot.


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## reggis (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't get why you think that breaking up the affair will suddenly make her remorseful and come rushing back into your arms?

You're trying to save a "family" that is hopelessly broken.

Sure cheaters might eventually (as in many years down the line) come to the conclusion that they are no happier in their new lives as compared to the old one. So what, that's irrelevant. 

She cheated, she lied, she's not remorseful and she's angry at YOU for taking away all her fun. She has no respect for you, in fact she probably doesn't even like you.

You sir, are wasting your time and energy that could be better spent rebuilding your life and ultimately meeting a woman that will not treat you so poorly.



MrHopeful said:


> I have mentioned more than once to my wife how pissed I am that I have to get tested for STDs. Its soul crushing having to sit around wondering what I might have in me.



Let me guess. Every time you bring up how pissed you are, she rolls her eyes at you because she really doesn't care.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Be mindful of her attitude suddenly improving. That would mean a reconnect. Trust your gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

reggis said:


> I don't get why you think that breaking up the affair will suddenly make her remorseful and come rushing back into your arms?
> 
> You're trying to save a "family" that is hopelessly broken.
> 
> ...


Well... that's just like... your opinion man. -The Dude


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> The only real "evidence" if you want to call it that of the affair being over is that WW underwent a dramatic change overnight. She is constantly crying for no reason, angry, sad, angry, sad. She looks like someone killed her puppy and fed it to her then ran her over with a leaky manure truck.
> 
> This is a MASSIVE change from before where I was getting the ****iness, the strutting, the coldness.


As you say, these are likely classic withdrawal symptoms. After all, he is her favorite toy.

I agree with Shaggy, if she perks up again while your 'sources' remain silent, that is a sign that they've found a workaround.

I hope you have a GPS on the truck.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This is *ONLY the first 48 hours*. It appears that your WW is very deep in the fog, especially since her withdrawal symptoms are so severe. 

*The script now dictates that one of them WILL start fishing for renewed contact*. It will be something as simple as "how are you doing?" "hope you're ok", that sort of thing. Then it will be back on like Donkey Kong. Like Shaggy and iheartlife said, if you see a sudden change in her attitude, then that's a very good indication that they've reconnected and she's broken NC. 

Oh wait, I see you haven't actually told her that she must go NC with OM.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Praying strength for you. Your eyes are open. I am not suggesting divorce at this point. Why? Because you're being rational, you have set limits for how far you will go. You have taken all things into consideration, and you have a plan. If it means living with her till your kids are grown, I believe the way you have conducted yourself makes that possible. If you can restore the marriage, more power to you. Your wife is acting like an adolescent who has been put on restriction. You have brought her back to reality and the destruction she has caused. All I can suggest now is to continue with the plan. Your speaking with the minister and the OMs, good christian mother is right out the bible "by the word of two witnesses, all things will be confirmed". On a side note, I hope this encourages you to seek wisdom from the bible and a deeper relationship with God, through Jesus Christ our lord.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> Well... that's just like... your opinion man. -The Dude



reggis:










Hopeful:


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> This is *ONLY the first 48 hours*. It appears that your WW is very deep in the fog, especially since her withdrawal symptoms are so severe.
> 
> *The script now dictates that one of them WILL start fishing for renewed contact*. It will be something as simple as "how are you doing?" "hope you're ok", that sort of thing. Then it will be back on like Donkey Kong. Like Shaggy and iheartlife said, if you see a sudden change in her attitude, then that's a very good indication that they've reconnected and she's broken NC.
> 
> Oh wait, I see you haven't actually told her that she must go NC with OM.


I'm not responding to any more posts that add sarcasm or other quips to try and get a rise out of me or anyone else. This is my life, not entertainment. Be supportive in a way that doesn't poke fun at me or my family, or GTFO. There are plenty of ways to communicate your opinion without being a d*ck.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well despite whether or not LM used sarcasm, what he speaks is very true if you want an R that lasts

if you truly want to fight for your marriage then you need to present consequences


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MrH I applaud you for your patience and planning.

Keep in mind you actions or lack of to your WW will determine the rest of your relationship. Start searching what a true and fake remorse is like.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MrH, my main advice is to stop firing bow shots and sink him already.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> well despite whether or not LM used sarcasm, what he speaks is very true if you want an R that lasts
> 
> if you truly want to fight for your marriage then you need to present consequences


If someone is being ambivalent towards me then I can't trust that their opinion is genuine.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> If someone is being ambivalent towards me then I can't trust that their opinion is genuine.


do consider that you are speaking to a bunch of betrayed folk who don't want to see you go down the wrong roads we all did or see others do, he is also frustrated himself most likely


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> This is *ONLY the first 48 hours*. It appears that your WW is very deep in the fog, especially since her withdrawal symptoms are so severe.
> 
> *The script now dictates that one of them WILL start fishing for renewed contact*. It will be something as simple as "how are you doing?" "hope you're ok", that sort of thing. Then it will be back on like Donkey Kong. Like Shaggy and iheartlife said, if you see a sudden change in her attitude, then that's a very good indication that they've reconnected and she's broken NC.
> 
> Oh wait, I see you haven't actually told her that she must go NC with OM.


Spot on. 

It was inevitable that he was going to throw her under the bus, I suspect she'll be the one doing all the grovelling and when he tells her to GTFO, she'll fall back on Mr Hopeful, she has to face severe consequences for her actions so as she doesn't seem him as a doormat.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I don't see remorse, I only see withdrawal. There's no point in asking for NC until she says she wants to stay.

She introduced this guy to her MIL. That's an extreme that's pretty rare. She's not going to cave overnight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Spot on.
> 
> It was inevitable that he was going to throw her under the bus, I suspect she'll be the one doing all the grovelling and when he tells her to GTFO, she'll fall back on Mr Hopeful, she has to face severe consequences for her actions so as she doesn't seem him as a doormat.


I forgot to mention that OM lives with Momma, so unless she is in on it, he has to come home every day to that house and deal with her.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I don't see remorse, I only see withdrawal. There's no point in asking for NC until she says she wants to stay.
> 
> She introduced this guy to her MIL. That's an extreme that's pretty rare. She's not going to cave overnight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was going to post something like the first part, so I'm glad you said it first. It seems pointless to try and discuss anything with her in her current state. My supporters are telling me just let her simmer for now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> I forgot to mention that OM lives with Momma, so unless she is in on it, he has to come home every day to that house and deal with her.


Boys don't tell mama everything they're up to.


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## cabin fever (Feb 9, 2012)

at the end of the day its your decesion. 

So far you have done a great job of trying to get OM out off the picture, but very little to change your wifes mindset. So you got rid of one troll (hopefully), now your wife is pissed. I guess I don't see this a "good" thing. In your wifes eyes, she is just justifying your actions as even more controlling. 

Not trying to be disrespectful, and I hope it works out for you. I know everyone is different, but in my case my wife didn't really come out of the affair fog, till divorce papers were underway. Filling the papers doesn't mean your getting divorced. 

I may be way off base here, and again, I mean no disrespect, just want to make sure you are looking at this from all the angles. 

its the old addage "you don't know what you got, till its gone" Your wife doesn't sound like she knows what she has

good luck.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> I am trying to verify the SSN stuff. I can only go by what the bg report says, so for now shady until proven otherwise.
> 
> Nobody need worry about me letting this guy off the hook. This site has done a fine job drilling it into my brain that words don't mean anything.
> 
> ...


As you already know this is because her fantasy world is collasping. She will go into a grieving period as will you. When my WS was caught, I first suspected that she had an exit stategy with the OM to leave our marriage. THe OM was younger with kids and he never planned on leaving his wife and kids and my wife never planned on leaving me. She told me that they talked about what it would be like to be together but both knew it would never work out. 

Hopefully soon your wife will cme to her senses and realize just what the heck she did. It is best to have NC but most want to say some sort of goodbyes, I love you's, etc. I asked my wife for NC and she promised me that she would. Within three days she was talking to him saying I love you, goodbye, etc. I got very upset (as she lied to me) but there has been no contact since (to my knowledge).

The hard part will begin now as there is uncertainty as to how your wife is going to respond.

I support you in your decisions and am hoping for a great outcome. Right now it is sucky and will remain so for the future. Hang in there. Stick to your guns.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

cabin fever said:


> at the end of the day its your decesion.
> 
> So far you have done a great job of trying to get OM out off the picture, but very little to change your wifes mindset. So you got rid of one troll (hopefully), now your wife is pissed. I guess I don't see this a "good" thing. In your wifes eyes, she is just justifying your actions as even more controlling.
> 
> ...


thanks for the very thoughtful response.

right now i am working on building a strong case against the OM, and working on ways to verify that WW's actions match her words, especially when it comes to her whereabouts 

i need this stuff in place before i drop any nukes so i'm not sitting around wondering where my kids are if she flips out and runs or something.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> As you already know this is because her fantasy world is collasping. She will go into a grieving period as will you. When my WS was caught, I first suspected that she had an exit stategy with the OM to leave our marriage. THe OM was younger with kids and he never planned on leaving his wife and kids and my wife never planned on leaving me. She told me that they talked about what it would be like to be together but both knew it would never work out.
> 
> Hopefully soon your wife will cme to her senses and realize just what the heck she did. It is best to have NC but most want to say some sort of goodbyes, I love you's, etc. I asked my wife for NC and she promised me that she would. Within three days she was talking to him saying I love you, goodbye, etc. I got very upset (as she lied to me) but there has been no contact since (to my knowledge).
> 
> ...


At some point on this journey I told WW that if she really wants to be with OM, then pack up and go be with him. Her response was that he was not someone "I can go to."

This makes a lot of sense now that I have learned OM lives with momma.

Its hard not to draw a strong parallel with your situation. I really hope the OM was sincere, and rebuffs any efforts at re-contact, etc, but not going to take it to the bank, no freaking way.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If he lives with Mommy - any idea on where they were hooking up ? Any idea on where they first met one another?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> At some point on this journey I told WW that if she really wants to be with OM, then pack up and go be with him. Her response was that he was not someone "I can go to".


Another cake eater...


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

keko said:


> Another cake eater...


Is it just me, or is that the most popular brand?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :wtf:
> 
> Now we got yet another OM that lives with his enabling mommy?


well at least this mom told him it wasnt the way she raised him and shamed him into ending it


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## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Exposure is the surest way of ending an affair and snapping cheating spouses back to reality. The angrier they are, the more effective the exposure was. Sounds like you hit the mark dead on.

Of course she's pissed...you just shattered her fantasy life. As soon as she realizes that OM really is gone, she'll begin to realize how wrong her actions have been, and hopefully start to feel remorseful for her lousy choices.

In the meantime, be the best you you can be. Be the steady lighthouse on the shore acting as a guide to bring her home from the storms. Alpha, confident, loving, positive. Basically the best you you can present.

Also, I'd get some books and leave them around the house concerning recovery from affairs (surviving an affair, the 5 love languages, etc.). Maybe she'll pick them up when the mood hits her. She needs to know you have a plan for recovery and what your conditions are to go down that path with her. Set the bar high, and clearly state the boundaries that you require.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

I have MMSL which I am 3/4 through and TFLL which just showed up two days ago from my uncle without warning


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> I'm not responding to any more posts that add sarcasm or other quips to try and get a rise out of me or anyone else. This is my life, not entertainment. Be supportive in a way that doesn't poke fun at me or my family, or GTFO. There are plenty of ways to communicate your opinion without being a d*ck.


I'm just telling it like it is. Now *WHERE DID I POKE FUN AT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY?*

If you want to be coddled, just say so.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Her response was that he was not someone "I can go to."


She couldn't have said that you were a backup any better than that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> If someone is being ambivalent towards me then I can't trust that their opinion is genuine.


I'm not ambivalent, I'm direct. That's from my years of being in the military and law enforcement. I look at the facts and I form a conclusion based on those facts. Like everyone here, I've been through this. In fact, this is MY second time around in a second marriage. I don't give a sh!t if you don't think my opinion is genuine or not. It's your life. Good luck, you're gonna need it.


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## reggis (Apr 11, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> I'm just telling it like it is. Now *WHERE DID I POKE FUN AT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY?*
> 
> If you want to be coddled, just say so.


You said she was a Donkey or something like that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

reggis said:


> You said she was a Donkey or something like that.


It's an expression from the classic arcade game Donkey Kong. Never heard of the expression "It's on like Donkey Kong?" Google it.


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## reggis (Apr 11, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> It's an expression from the classic arcade game Donkey Kong. Never heard of the expression "It's on like Donkey Kong?" Google it.


I've heard of "In like Flynn".


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think your doing a great job, I could spend all day hitting the "like" button but that just piss you off. 

I just think you have a solid plan, and your WW is coming to terms so givea few days. remember by pushing her..in these next few days will only confirm and justify her affair.

She is coming to terms with;

being dropped so hard with out any fight from OM

this really wasn't going anywere and no were to go

why

the addiction 

...and I'm sure there are others. So let these thoughts sink in for her. Does she have someone she respects that she thinks highy of? A relitive or friend that supports the M? They may want to engage her before you do. 

You have all the tools in place and keep up the good fight.

Your next step will be dictated after she comes out of the initial withdrawl. So now is not the time to get weak, but use your resource to get to the next step.

Keep your eye on the prize and thats your M.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

MrHopeful~

I hope perhaps I can help explain something fairly big here that you seem to be missing. First, just so you know, I know some of the fellas here can be a little less-than-gentile in their approach--and that's partly because of the type of person they are but also it's partly because being super kind and thoughtful doesn't usually "wake someone up" to the huge thing they're missing, whereas sometimes a verbal "boot to the head" does wake them up. (Note to self: "Boot to the head" is a reference to an SNL skit  ). So being guys, rather than hold your hand and blow sunshine up your skirt...they go for the boot to the head. Being a lady, I realize that sometimes after you've done something that required personal strength and stood for something firmly...that it's okay to take a moment and acknowledge that achievement and say good job.

Sooooo...that being said, you have done a very good job so far remaining calm, thinking clearly and rationally, getting proof of the affair, and confronting both the OM and your family and his family! This work so far is EXTRAORDINARY and has gone a long way both in boosting your own self-respect and in reclaiming some respect in your wife's eyes. However, the big purple gorilla that you're not seeing in your living room is this: even if you were to utterly "lay waste" to the OM and he were to back off, that does not even begin to address where you WIFE is at....and she is the one who made a promise to you (a vow)! She is the one who you really have the problem with!! 

Prior to the affair, it seems as if she had issues with you and definitely it seemed that her RESPECT for you was diminishing rapidly. My guess would be that you're aware of this and have been working on it by taking some of the stands you've been taking...good! But just because you chase away THIS boyfriend does not mean that she will suddenly go back to being in love with you, will suddenly respect you, or will suddenly want to stay married. In fact, if nothing changes and you chase off the OM, she will mostly stay disrespectful and just look for another man! Now, as long as any other man is in the picture, the chances of her head clearing some and the chances of her gaining any love or respect for you are NIL. Your chances right now, if you've run him off, are not NIL, but they are not high! 

Sooooo...at the same time that you have dealt with the OM (which is GREAT) you now need to turn your focus to dealing with the person who actually OWES YOU due to the promise that she made. Now, marriage is like two people who are islands and the "marriage" is the bridge between them. She thought your island was south of her and built her bridge to you that way....and now you've gone and MOVED YOUR ISLAND!! Any time there is change like that in a marriage, there is going to be at minimum...some bumps in the road! Okay by "some" I mean MAJOR!! She is going to resist you're not stance that requires respect. She's going to use every trick in the book to try to get you "back the way you were" so she doesn't have to respect you anymore...and YOU are going to have to not only keep up the new changes but also be FIRM and not waiver so that eventually of her own accord she will get the message that she can no longer get away with giving you crumbs of her love and treating you like dirt. 

IN ADDITION though, she is the love of your life. Love does not mean "Hey honey you can get away with anything and I'll cover the consequences so you don't have to feel any uncomfortableness" but it also does not mean being rude, forceful or demanding...or controlling. So it's a very slim tightrope for you to walk. You have to look inside you and remember the kind of MAN, Father, and Husband you were made to be...and work more and more toward becoming THAT MAN!! And that man is a man who is with a woman who gives him 100% of her affection and loyalty...and to whom he also actively gives 100% of HIS affection and HIS loyalty. 

Get it? Don't miss this huge gorilla in your living room by assuming everything is "okay" if you run off the OM. It's not okay. Your wife has not changed with you, and right now she is not respecting you or in love with you. Until that happens, there may not be a marriage to save.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> I don't see remorse, I only see withdrawal. There's no point in asking for NC until she says she wants to stay.
> 
> She introduced this guy to her MIL. That's an extreme that's pretty rare. She's not going to cave overnight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Just got back in and catching up on this thread and this is the first post in two pages that makes sense in context with what MH has posted. Give the WW a breather to let what she has done sink in. He busted the OM, with more to come, WW's "fantasy world", has come apart(we hope) and three fourths of the posters are giving him hell and sarcasm.

If your going to post something toxic, go to a how to cheat website and take out on those assh+les.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> MrH, my main advice is to stop firing bow shots and sink him already.


And my advice is "keep your powder dry until you see the whites of his eyes................again.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> And my advice is "keep your powder dry until you see the whites of his eyes................again.
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Arrgh maties.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The way I would put it is you have to figure out why the OM was able too get to your wife in the ifrst place. For whatever reason she fell out of love with you and lost respect for you. This could be because of a million things. Things about you she grew to dislike. Changes in you she did not like. Maybe things she thought she could change in you and couldn't. Communication breakdown obviously. It may be that this is just the kind of person she is. She may not be able to be a wife and mother. She certainly did not mind keaving her kids at home with you for lengthy time periods. She just may have mental issues.

Are you getting anything out of MMSL that you recognize as a possible issue?

Your wife needs to have some time to calm down, its too early to push anything. You should not even act like you know who she is at this point. 180 for the time being.

Have fun with the kids, I'm sure they know things are off the rails. Being a good father is attractive to women. Hide your pain when you are around your wife.

If she gives you an opening, mention to your wife that you know way more about the OM than she does stolen SS numbers are the tip of the iceburg. (I hope this is true).

Have you heard from your mother? It crossed my mind today that she may have been trying to protect you from your wife.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Affaircare: I am working on all of the stuff you mentioned because I want to be a better person at the end of this whether I end up with my wife or another woman in the long run. The MC does not even want us back in a joint session yet so I just have to be patient, and work on myself for now. I haven't brought it up because it seemed pointless to discuss my personal journey to being a better person on an affair busting thread, but yes, I want to be on that path you described so well.

Chapparal: thanks for taking time to notice what I have accomplished so far instead of ripping me for not following your advice to the letter 

Its almost impossible to keep up the pace that many on this forum push for. I am doing the best I can with the time I have. And no offense to anyone here, but I lean heavily towards what my friends and family who have known and loved my wife for over a decade as far as advice goes. I may get it totally wrong sometimes and get burned, but with my loved ones behind me, these really tough choices aren't quite so scary to act on.

Unfortunately after a ton of digging today I found that the bg report I got is a blend of two guys with the exact same first, middle, and last names with the exact same freaking birth year and date (i know, major suck). The wrong guy is the one who is engaging in identity theft.

Anyways, not a huge loss because that was just one more thing in a big pile of dirt. Even when I thought the SSN thing was the real deal, it was extremely difficult to get anyone interested in pursuing it. Its not even possible to complain to the IRS about identity theft if you aren't the victim, and you need proof that you have been harmed financially, not just that some guy used your SSN. At any given time there are 13+ million stolen identities actively being used in the US, which is so high its just hard to even imagine that anyone is on top of it. Its every man for himself, really.

My Mom and my wife are closer than my mom and myself. So basically I just have to forget about my mom and deal with that mess later. When I spoke to her last I just told her that I haven't disowned her or anything, but that I just can't work on our issues right now. She is desperate to reconcile so maybe I can use that later


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

So what exactly are you waiting from your WW to do before you "forgive" her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

The pace that you are getting here, is the pace you need to blow the affair out of the water. I suppose with all the advice hitting you it feels like a barrage!

The FOG is very hard to break. She may have switched off years ago and have checked out of the marriage without mentioning it to you. but the fact that she is also trying very hard to have her cake and eat it is telling. 
There is a disconnect between reality and fantasy of the affair. She really believes that your love is unconditional and is blown away by the fact it is not. This is incredibly hard for her to understand because effectively it has been unconditional. It is only the introduction of another man that has made it conditional. She will flipflop between guilt and entitlement. This is not what you want. You need to see HER on a regular basis, not snippets. 

She needs to want to be with you before NC will work with the OM. Otherwise she will send you to hell and back several times with fake R. Don't go there. Been there, done that, sent the postcard. 

If you think some time needs to elapse now, then take that time. You know her and you know how she operates, she also knows how you operate! 
Good luck and we really all are on your side. Boots to the head, notwithstanding.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrHopeful said:


> My Mom and my wife are closer than my mom and myself. So basically I just have to forget about my mom and deal with that mess later. When I spoke to her last I just told her that I haven't disowned her or anything, but that I just can't work on our issues right now. She is desperate to reconcile so maybe I can use that later


 If she was not your mother but was instead just a friend, she would be classified as a "toxic friend" that you would require that your wife go full no contact (NC) with as a condition of reconciliation. Since she is your children's grandmother that obviously complicates things, but you should put limits on contact with her by your wife when the time comes. Not an easy one to deal with as I have never ever heard of a mother doing such a thing before.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What ING says is true and important. Your wife didn't jump into an affair in just one step. It was a journey of increasingly broken boundaries, at each step she got back into her comfort zone before moving to the next worse step.

Part of the strategy to destroy the affair is to deny her the time between your actions and her once again regaining her comfort zone. Notice how once the affair was out, she reacted but then became comfortable with you knowing she was cheating? She took the time she needed to acclimatize and integrate that exposure into her world view and to make peace with it.

This is also why bow shots undermine your long term campaign . The breaks between them give the AP and WS timr to recover and rebalance.

The perfect exposure , if there is one, takes place in a very short period of time. It makes the WS and AP reel and constantly react. It challenges them to deal with an onslaught of events , all undermining their relationship all at once. Ideally one or both decide to save themself and throw the other under the bus.

This is very hard to pull off. BS usually either pull back fearful of going too far, or pull back when they see a little progress. They win a skirmish and put down their arms.

Btw - good job on not doing that. You plan on keeping going and that's just what you must do.

I'm glad that you've made progress, and I am rooting for you. Good hunting.

Edit: corrected some spelling help from the eyepad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> What ING says is true and important. Your wife didn't jump into an affair in just one step. It was a journey of increasingly broken boundaries, at each step she got back into her comfort zone before moving to the next worse step.
> 
> Part of the strategy to destroy the affair is to deny her the time between your actions and her once again regaining her comfort zone. Notice how once the affair was out, she reacted but then became comfortable with you knowing she was cheating? She took the time she needed to acclimatize and integrate that exposure into her world view and to make peace with it.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this post. It is easily the most coherent explanation *for me* that has been given to explain how the past two weeks have progressed, and to be able to understand the importance of comfort in the whole mess.

Just today I was thinking, she seems to be getting comfortable with the current routine... not necessarily that she is perking up or anything, just that "the grind" of current emotional turmoil is not bothering her like *I* think it should be.... of course being a paranoid non-trusting yet wishful thinking dreamer now all of these things pop into my head as possible explanations...

* WW thinks she can get away with rug sweeping and this is making her feel good for now.

* WW is working on plans to reconnect and this is making her feel good for now.

* WW and OM have already reconnected and I am missing it.

* WW is starting to process everything and this is bringing a shred of peace to her mind.

* We had a pleasant evening with the kids and this is making her feel good for now.

* WW has no plans to reconcile and this is another day closer to executing her escape plan.

I'm sure this list could reach 500+ items if the entire forum chipped in.

The sucky part is that you have to *assume* the affair isn't busted when in reality it might be, all the while knowing that there is a damn good possibility she just doesn't want me anymore.

My short term survival plan: watch her like a hawk, work on myself instead of trying to make her want me, continue to work on nuking OM.

The really hard thing is the remorse part. I am getting just absolutely wildly conflicting advice on that. All the way from "just leave her alone for a while" to "drop the D bomb to force her into remorseful behavior, or buh-bye."

Leave her alone for a while / don't push her right now have the most votes from my family/friends, though.


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

Another thing which is really interesting is that if I was using my kids behavior as a barometer for this whole thing it would go something like this...

While affair was taking place: kids missing their mother more than "usual."

Immediately after affair is discovered but not busted: kids become increasingly emotionally needy over the next 5 to 7 days then levels off.

First 48 hours after I confronted OM, affair possibly busted: kids acting out in ways never before seen. Teachers making comments.

First 24 hours after I called OM's Momma and OM called me to apologize: WW is a wreck, but kids have a great day because she is basically "out of it" and not putting off negative energy.

Last 24 hours: WW making a big effort to reconnect with kids. Best day for kids since D-Day by a long shot.

How do others feel about using the disposition of the kids as a barometer? In hindsight its kind of mind blowing how the kids pick up on turmoil even though we are remaining civil when they are around and they are too young to comprehend what is actually happening.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

A very astute observation. Kids know more than you think. My mom called me "big ears" when I was 7 years old for a reason that had nothing to do with my undersized ears.


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

I just read this thread from the beginning and I'm so thoroughly confused. Seems like it starts right in the middle am I missing something. When did his mother become involved in this? Is there a post missing that gives context.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

His old thread is deleted.


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

oh I guess I'll just have to pick it up as I go along than. I hope things work out for him I can't believe his own mother would turn on him like that. Is she at least remorseful?


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## MrHopeful (Apr 30, 2012)

oldmittens said:


> oh I guess I'll just have to pick it up as I go along than. I hope things work out for him I can't believe his own mother would turn on him like that. Is she at least remorseful?


My Mom is acting remorseful if "PUH-LEASE don't be mad at me!" counts as remorse


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Wondering if you have any updates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reggis (Apr 11, 2012)

MrHopeful said:


> My short term survival plan: watch her like a hawk, work on myself instead of trying to make her want me, continue to work on nuking OM.
> 
> The really hard thing is the remorse part. I am getting just absolutely wildly conflicting advice on that. All the way from "just leave her alone for a while" to "drop the D bomb to force her into remorseful behavior, or buh-bye."
> 
> Leave her alone for a while / don't push her right now have the most votes from my family/friends, though.


Good plan considering that you cant "make her want you". She's not the least bit remorseful, not sure why you'd think that dropping the D bomb will force her into remorseful behavior. 

The whole strategy and way of thinking makes no sense, considering that she's not interested in being with you anymore. 

Don't use divorce as some sort of manipulative strategy, use it as a way to get away from this woman forever.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Wondering today how Mr.Hopeful is doing.


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