# Advice



## Dan07 (Jun 4, 2021)

short version:

Would you be happy with your wife planning a 3 day trip away with her friends then telling you weeks later?


longer version:

In March, my wife tells me that a (female) friend asked her if she wanted to volunteer for a race. I thought she said she wasnt interested in going, but she later tells me she didnt say if she was interested or not. I didnt give any reaction at the time because I did get any impression that she wanted to go.

On a completely separate event, My wife went to baby sit for the same friend, so this friend could go and stay in a hotel and cheat on her husband. (I said to my wife that I felt she shouldnt be getting involved like this, but she wanted to help) The couple hadnt been getting on for sometime, and were likely separating anyway, but this event happened, and seemed like it was the nail in the coffin for couple.

In May, over dinner my wife announced she is going to volunteer for this race with her friend, its about 100 miles away, will be gone for 3 days (Fri - Sun), and the hotel was booked some weeks ago. The 3rd day was her Birthday. I felt shocked, didnt know what to say; when she mentioned the hotel, I said, so her new boyfriend going? she said she didnt know, but later revealed he was. She quickly changed the subject. 

What she said kept repeating in my mind that evening and I felt more and more upset about it, and trying to figure out exactly why I felt upset as it wasnt the first time she went away. I came to the follow conclusions:
1) That she had made these plans to be away then told me weeks later.
2) That she felt that being away with her friends on birthday was her preferred choice.
3) I did already have plans for her birthday (formed 6 months previous)

I never felt its my place to tell her what she should do, and wasnt about to start telling her now. She didnt really say what exactly she will be doing, and didnt say what hotel she is in, but we use 'find our friends' app for a number of years; we can both can find out where we are, (and our daughter) at any time.

When she arrived at the location on that Friday, I see she went straight from the hotel on to a boat cruise, and I completely lost it. Its my mistake that I didnt tell her how I felt, but it was now blurting out over text, "If you want to act like your single, then be single. I dont think its even an act", she told me I was acting like her ex (that I was trying to control her), and I told her not to come home.

Well I was kind of surprised that she come home, about 6pm, but she didnt speak to me at all. After a couple of days of silence, I tried talking to her. I explained everything and she feels that she didnt do anything wrong, and still doesnt understand why I had a problem. 

She says I should not have a problem with her going away, she can choose to do what she wants on "her birthday", and doesnt need "permission" from me. It isnt the first time she has gone away, and it wasnt a problem before, but this time was a different context. I repeated myself several times, but she doesn't get it. My problem isnt that she went away, but it was in the way she went about it. 

I brain feels happier than we are at least talking about it, but her complete non-understanding is killing my heart. I'm not sure if its just her anger, or if she fell out of love me with sometime ago and I've only just noticed. I'm only just realising that she never asks how I am, or pays any interest in what I do; I'm the one that asks about her day and normally have conversations around her activities. I feel that there are many people more important to her than me right now, and wonder how long has it been like this.

We have a daughter, and I dont want her growing up with separated parents like most her friends, but I cant see how to resolve this and how to move forward.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife enables cheating and then goes on a three day break with the cheater. This is not good.

Was her first husband too controlling or did she pull the same crap with him?

See a divorce solicitor to establish your rights.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> See a divorce solicitor to establish your rights.


Isn't this jumping the gun a bit? Maybe see a counsellor first?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your wife understands alright. She’s gaslighting you. 
Have you ever heard the saying “Judge me by the company I keep”.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Isn't this jumping the gun a bit? Maybe see a counsellor first?


He learns his rights first. And also makes sure he has the best divorce solicitors in town tied up by him.

If she is cheating, no amount of counselling will help. In fact many counsellors will not entertain couple's counselling if the one spouse is cheating.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Isn't this jumping the gun a bit? Maybe see a counsellor first?


No, I believe this fella @MattMatt has got it right.

Pre-planning for worst case builds a strong foundation to speak from and builds fortitude.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Plus, 


In Absentia said:


> Isn't this jumping the gun a bit? Maybe see a counsellor first?


For what? Pay someone to agree with him on what he already knows?

It seems unreal anyone would hear the poster's info and not smell a rat.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> No, I believe this fella @MattMatt has got it right.
> 
> Pre-planning for worst case builds a strong foundation to speak from and builds fortitude.


Besides which, divorce solicitors would have details of counsellors they know and trust.

Solicitors get paid the same hourly rate no matter what the outcome so they'll (generally) be happy with it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> He learns his rights first. And also makes sure he has the best divorce solicitors in town tied up by him.
> 
> If she is cheating, no amount of counselling will help. In fact many counsellors will not entertain couple's counselling if the one spouse is cheating.


This is probably why lawyers make a mountain of cash...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Plus,
> For what? Pay someone to agree with him on what he already knows?
> 
> It seems unreal anyone would hear the poster's info and not smell a rat.


So, let me understand this... she plans this elaborate plot, travelling 100 miles to cheat with someone, but then when her husband "gets angry", she is back at home at 6pm? And you are 100% sure she cheated. If she is planning to cheat or has cheated, she is very stupid.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> So, let me understand this... she plans this elaborate plot, travelling 100 miles to cheat with someone, but then when her husband "gets angry", she is back at home at 6pm? And you are 100% sure she cheated. If she is planning to cheat or has cheated, she is very stupid.


Apparently now you get it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Apparently now you get it.


ah ah ah


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

People who are extremely independent and secretive, and who do not judge their friends morals, should not be married.
This is who Dan07's wife is.


This wife is sneaky, non-communicative, and enabling of her BFF's affair.
She is not morally driven.

She is acting as if she is single.

She is married, thus, she needs to share (and clear) her plans, especially, her birthday plans with her husband.

Respect? 
Well, if appears she has little of that for her husband's feelings.

She likely wants out of the marriage, but she neglected to tell this her husband.

He has let her bad behavior go on too long. She has no want of any boundaries at this point.
Dan's wife is immature, and rebellious.

Again, not marriage material.



_Are Dee-_


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

My wife goes on short trips with her friends all the time. Her friends are reliable, married women.

So the issue here is not that she went on a trip, or that it was her birthday (really, who cares?), but the company she keeps.

Her friend is garbage (cheating on husband, roping her friend into the scheme, even while she has a young child at home), and that is a poor reflection on your wife.

It also means that her friend has been convincing your wife to cheat. How do I know? Your wife's remarks about you being "like her ex" and "controlling" --she already has resentments and is looking for an excuse.

Not sure this marriage can be saved, but I would sit your wife down for a serious talk, and lay down the following:

1 Her friend is to be deleted from your lives. No more talking to that women, and no more hanging out with her. If this rule is broken, you file for divorce.
2. That she needs to give you an itemized list of what she thinks is wrong with the relationship, and you can decide if these things can be worked on.
3. That she needs to treat you with respect, and if you ever hear the phrase "you are like my ex", you will file for divorce.
4. Explain that if divorce does happen, the market for divorced women with kids is very bad--she isn't going to end up with a high quality guy, and could end up as a cat lady. If she thinks it is back to sexy single-life, she is delusional.

You need to be stern and dead serious, but leave some room for working things out and improving the situation.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Isn't this jumping the gun a bit? Maybe see a counsellor first?


Nope.

She was complicit with her friend's cheating.

She pulled her shenanigans with the trip with cheating friend.

Birds of a feather and such.

She's gas lighting - "you're trying to control me" said every cheater ever.

Have respect for yourself and refuse to be treated like you're an option.

Stop with "I don't want her growing up with separated parents like most her friends "
This is a fall back thought that shouldn't even be considered. Two happily married parents are the best.
Second best is two happy parents co-parenting amicably.

I don't understand why EVER SINGLE man will state they don't want to disrupt the kids lives. *YOU ARE NOT DOING THIS SHE IS!!.*
Your mental,emotional, and physical health are the *most important things*.
If your mental, emotional, and physical health suffer, how can you possibly be the best parent you can be?


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## Dan07 (Jun 4, 2021)

Its interesting that its her friend that most of you have picked up on, as I had thought this was the least relevant part.

I dont feel she went to cheat, but do think her friend could quite easily convince her too; she does heavily defends her friends actions. My wife spent most of today helping her move out of her house to another place. To be honest, her husband does sound like an asshole, but then I only hearing half the story. I said today that I half want to go and speak to him just to get his side of the story, and that didnt go well; basically said I shouldnt get involved!


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## AttaBoy (Sep 30, 2018)

Dan07, you'll notice that at some point your thoughts and feelings about boundaries and communication ceased to matter to your wife. She was riding some sort of high and disregarded you entirely. If you had posted before her trip I would have advised you to hire a PI to follow her on her trip. Seems extreme? I would bet her friend and her friends' POS had her set up to meet another man, away from your prying eyes and gut feelings. 
Your wife believes cheating is okay. That's a fact demonstrated by her actions. Where does that leave you? I would suggest at this point to gather evidence if you can about the communications your wife had between March and the lovers weekend. It's all there, or was, if you can get to it. Keep your mouth shut about your fact finding efforts. Check her phone, phone bills, purchases, social media. 
Perhaps the biggest and most prevalent indication of her intentions would have been her preparation. New clothes or undergarments, grooming efforts ... if only you could have seen how she packed for the trip. How aloof or secretive was your wife about her preparation? 
You are not out of the woods, her bestie is a toxic influence/person and your wife sees it otherwise. 
Best of luck.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

An


Dan07 said:


> Its interesting that its her friend that most of you have picked up on, as I had thought this was the least relevant part.
> 
> I dont feel she went to cheat, but do think her friend could quite easily convince her too; she does heavily defends her friends actions. My wife spent most of today helping her move out of her house to another place. To be honest, her husband does sound like an asshole, but then I only hearing half the story. I said today that I half want to go and speak to him just to get his side of the story, and that didnt go well; basically said I shouldnt get involved!


You’re so right. You’re hearing half of the story. Your wife will do the same. She’s going to tell all her buds that you were a controlling, unreasonably jealous asshole and that’s why she cheated. There’s not a married man alive that can’t sound like a real ass when pieces of truth and isolated incidents are described in series as if they were one right after another.

you have a wife that has no character and she is going to demonstrate this in technicolor. i advise as others—- check up on her.

your wife is not a good person. Sorry. She isn’t.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Here is my 2 cents. Stop 'discussing' these issues that are bothering you revolving your wife's behavior ... with your wife.

Are you aware of your own boundaries? Is your wife aware of your boundaries? In other words are there actions, behaviors, events, circumstances that you simply will not tolerate, and there are distinct consequences for, in the event those boundaries are tested and violated?

You are right, it ISN'T your place to be telling your wife what she should or shouldn't do. But you should make sure that she is clear as crystal about what YOU will do, in light of her disrespectful, poor, inconsiderate, or ill-advised choices. Which is quite clearly the distinguishing factor with this 'event' compared to any other times she has gone away in the past.

She knew it was sketchy. She knew you weren't wrong ... and she knew that you were plenty pissed. Had she cared for none of those things, she wouldn't have come home.
However, now like a petulant child, it is easier for her to rationalize and utterly defer her poor behavior, by instead making you responsible.

So, to sum up; you need to decide what YOU are going to do based upon the current circumstances, rather than ruminating about what she should or shouldn't do, and how she should or shouldn't feel. That is all her stuff.
Here is the only other bit of advice I can give you, as I actually just went through something somewhat similar. My ex-wife had been previously married. Three times. She very logically and convincingly provided me with backstories as to why those marriages didn't work out. She chose me because (her words) I was an 'adult'. I was stable. Good job. Fell in love with her daughter, and she me. I made good decisions and she trusted me. I was 'grounding' and 'stable' for her. Fast forward a few years and we are married. Happy for the most part, but ... all of a sudden my good decisions and stability that she saw as assets in the blush of a new relationship, she tended to see more as constraining, and controlling, once we were married. Coincidence? Hell no. My problem? Again, hell no. Some people quite simply are addicted to poor decisions. You can clearly point out to such a person, that making choice A is bad and will result in B and C as consequences, while making choice X is good, and will have positive consequences Y and Z as a result ... and they will still consistently make the wrong choice. Everything they do in there life is reactionary, and meant to serve the moment. It is never proactive, or done with the long view. That is my ex-wife. And absolutely nothing I was ever going to say, do, threaten, plead, or pray for was going to change that. Which thankfully, I was quite prepared for, and at peace with.

Decide what you are prepared to be at peace with. Work hard to preserve your marriage, and assure that respect is firmly entrenched. If not. Let it go. You will benefit in the long run. Oh, and my children from my first marriage are absolutely fine. No trauma. No drama. Staying married for the kids, seldom actually benefits the kids.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If your wife lays around with dogs she’ll come home with fleas. You wife has no morals and no boundaries. Where are yours?

From what I see you are your biggest problem.


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

Dan07 said:


> Its interesting that its her friend that most of you have picked up on, as I had thought this was the least relevant part.
> 
> I dont feel she went to cheat, but do think her friend could quite easily convince her too; she does heavily defends her friends actions. My wife spent most of today helping her move out of her house to another place. To be honest, her husband does sound like an asshole, but then I only hearing half the story. I said today that I half want to go and speak to him just to get his side of the story, and that didnt go well; basically said I shouldnt get involved!


I agree with you that the focus of the issue is not really the friend. I think your wife's hiding her plans from you indicates that she feels that she is doing something wrong and/or something you would not agree with. According to what you wrote, it sounds like it's the first time she does this. Usually when someone hides something from their spouse, it means that they're aware that they are in the wrong, but they still proceed with the plan anyway. This is what upsets you more than anything else.
I suggest you have a calm discussion with your wife and you explain to her that you reacted in a wrong way, but also that you are not confortable with her making plans without consulting with you, and that also her help with the cheating friend is not something you'd agree with, because it is morally wrong to cheat, even if a husband is an asshole. Just divorce first and then start seeing other people. She not only condoned, but facilitated this cheating, thus playing an active role in this. 
Wait for her reaction and response to what you say, and according to her response you can judge for yourself if you and your wife share the same values or it is time to part ways.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Thing is, the only wrong way he reacted in, is he didn’t react decisively enough.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bud if your wife is ok with her friend cheating on her husband then she’ll be ok cheating on you if she isn’t already. Birds of a feather flock together.
Amazing


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Dan07 said:


> I said today that I half want to go and speak to him just to get his side of the story, and that didnt go well; basically said I shouldnt get involved!


This is "controlling the narrative" only one version of the story is allowed to be told.
You mentioned that the travel had to do with a race. What kind of racing?
How old is your marriage? your Daughter?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She went on vacation with a cheater and her AP. They may have even had a threesome. Why would a married woman even want to be with two cheaters?


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> *He has let her bad behavior go on too long. *



So many red flags. Be prepared for DDay.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Dan07, please read VintageRetro's entire post "Wife Apparently Cheated Last Year". You could be VintageRetro if you don't make it absolutely clear to your wife that her behavior is unacceptable.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Dan07 said:


> short version:
> 
> Would you be happy with your wife planning a 3 day trip away with her friends then telling you weeks later?


Did she make any mention about why she waited so long to tell you about the trip? Would she not expect you to make some kind of plans for her birthday. Did you tell her you made plans 6 months prior for her birthday?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

One of the biggest red flags I overlooked was the kind of friends (and family) my wife had. Ever heard the phrase show me your friends and I'll show you your future? Well, looks pretty accurate for her right about now.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Are you sure she was babysitting for a cheating friend? Maybe that's an excuse to be out doing her own cheating. 

Are you sure there even was a race or that the friend was even on the trip? 

I'd check her phone, cell phone bill, etc. You might want to hire a PI and set up a voice activated recorder.


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## Dan07 (Jun 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Would she not expect you to make some kind of plans for her birthday. Did you tell her you made plans 6 months prior for her birthday?


I didnt always, but was starting to make a habit of it. She did say during the augment: 'like you make plans!!!', she had clearly forgotten her last birthday and last valentines day.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Dan07 said:


> I didnt always, but was starting to make a habit of it. She did say during the augment: 'like you make plans!!!', she had clearly forgotten her last birthday and last valentines day.


It seems like you should be able to work through these things. It is hard to stay calm, but you have to try to have these conversations without escalating into an all out screaming match.

I still feel like the friend is probably a major source of the problem. Yes, your wife was wrong with the way she sprang the trip on you and did it without even asking if you had made plans for her birthday. That would have been the first thing my wife would have asked before even considering something like this, but I can't help but think some of this originates with that friend. Given that her friend is a cheater and had a marriage on the rocks she probably never considered that you would actually want to be with your wife on her birthday. The friend may have even thought about it, but since cheaters are very selfish people, she didn't give a crap about you. I don't know how you do it without pissing off your wife, but you must make it known that you don't like her being friends with a cheater. Even if her husband really is an ahole that doesn't make cheating okay. It makes it okay to sperate, divorce and move on. And you have to consider that a wife cheating on a husband and everything that leads up to that may turn an otherwise okay husband into an ahole. It is a good friend that helps get her through a divorce and moving, etc., but it is a bad friend that helps and enables a cheater by watching the kids while she gets laid in a hotel somewhere. 

I don't believe your wife went on the trip intending to cheat, but it seems like on some level she knows she was wrong. Why else would she have come home and not even spend the night once you voiced your anger? I don't know if your wife would respond well to this, but I would have to ask how she would feel if roles were reversed. Suppose you had a close friend that cheated on his wife, you then went to a hotel with that friend and his OW, both of which are completely fine with cheating on a spouse, then you go out on a cruise with them? I have complete faith in my wife of 30+ years, but this would really make me wonder what the hell is going on. For one it would be really out of character for my wife to be hanging out with that type of person, but even that aside, this whole situation felt very wrong from the beginning. I would have called just like you did or jumped in a car and drove there. As others have said, your biggest mistake was not saying something right away, and I think you should apologize for that, but nothing else.

Couple questions. You mentioned your wife's ex. Is that an ex-husband or BF? What made them split? Were you married previously and if yes, what made you split? How long have you been married now? Those are just some things that could help with getting better advice.


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## Dan07 (Jun 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Couple questions. You mentioned your wife's ex. Is that an ex-husband or BF? What made them split? Were you married previously and if yes, what made you split? How long have you been married now? Those are just some things that could help with getting better advice.


We've been married 13 yrs, she was talking of her previous marriage before that.

I've already said to her about roles being reversed, she would have handled it worse than me; but she still refuses to get it. I'm generally been more considerate than her, so maybe shes flat out forgotten what how it feels. 

She would always say something when I used to be 5 minutes late home from work; should would have to be at least an hour later before I asked what happened. She recently started going to the pub straight after work for an hour which I'm fine with, but I know this is not something she would be able to handle in reverse.

also, I had over heard talking to her mum, she basically gave her half the story, which is quite a common thing for her to do. Said that I shouldnt have a problem with her going away, and it seems my wife is just repeating this sort of feedback back to me.

Generally, I just think all this seems to stem from her lack of love for me. I somehow need to guide this marriage to state I'm happy with, or just break it apart and find someone I can be happy with.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Dan07 said:


> We've been married 13 yrs, she was talking of her previous marriage before that.
> 
> I've already said to her about roles being reversed, she would have handled it worse than me; but she still refuses to get it. I'm generally been more considerate than her, so maybe shes flat out forgotten what how it feels.
> 
> ...


Part of me thinks it is time for you to go hit the pub afterwork for an hour and see what she thinks, but odds are that kind of tit for tat probably won't help anything.

How is everything else in your marriage, communication, sex, etc.? A lot of what you have been describing is just so foreign to me in my marriage. I would have zero problem with my wife going to the pub/bar with friends after work, but she would never go without telling me. Likewise, she would never plan an overnight trip without involving me in every step. I was really surprised you didn't even know the name of the hotel she was going to. That is the first thing my wife asks when I'm going somewhere. Did your wife have her own room, or was she going to be sharing a room with her friend and the BF?

Any chance it would be worthwhile for both of you to talk over the whole story with her mom? If not, maybe a counselor. I think a 3rd party hearing both sides at the same time could open her eye a little to how you feel and what you point of view is. Have you calmly laid out a story for her like you did in your original post? Going away for 3 days and not saying anything until very late. Going over her birthday without even asking if you had planned anything. Going away with a friend that is okay with cheating on her spouse and her AP. I just can't see how any reasonable person would think this is all okay. 

From what you've said here I wouldn't be giving up on the marriage just yet. These seem like issues you could work through, but it will require work, probably counseling, if you can't get a productive conversation going on your own.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ditch the witch. No way to live. Wives don’t do what your wife is doing. If you accept it and stay, you’re asking for pain.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Dan07 said:


> Its interesting that its her friend that most of you have picked up on, as I had thought this was the least relevant part.
> 
> I dont feel she went to cheat, but do think her friend could quite easily convince her too; she does heavily defends her friends actions. My wife spent most of today helping her move out of her house to another place. To be honest, her husband does sound like an asshole, but then I only hearing half the story. I said today that I half want to go and speak to him just to get his side of the story, and that didnt go well; basically said I shouldnt get involved!


Tell your wife...."Why, you are!"
You are only hearing the cheating STBXW side.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chumps become chumps because they allow it. Sorry bud but you are well on your way.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

manowar said:


> So many red flags. Be prepared for DDay.


Exactly right. Going off with a cheater to enable her behavior, comes back later, makes the BH feel like he's controlling. 3 red flags right there.


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## Angel wings (Oct 31, 2021)

Dan07 said:


> short version:
> 
> Would you be happy with your wife planning a 3 day trip away with her friends then telling you weeks later?
> 
> ...


Your wife is very disrespectful.. She taking you for a fool. I think better to leave before you loose yourself because no one like to be taken for a fool.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Zombie thread pretty much, and OP is banned.


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