# Open marriages



## Jimmysgirl (9 mo ago)

I'll be honest, this is a concept I do not understand and I'm trying to understand other perspectives. Interestingly, and I could be wrong, it seems to be women wanting freedom within marriage. It seems like the men are the ones wanting monogamy. If your marriage is "open", what makes it a marriage? I'm being sincere, I truly do not know. If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jimmysgirl said:


> If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


Someone has to pay the bills, and deal with everything that a **** buddy didn't sign up for.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Jimmysgirl said:


> I'll be honest, this is a concept I do not understand and I'm trying to understand other perspectives. Interestingly, and I could be wrong, it seems to be women wanting freedom within marriage. It seems like the men are the ones wanting monogamy. If your marriage is "open", what makes it a marriage? I'm being sincere, I truly do not know. If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


It seems like the posts lately have been women wanting to open, but I wouldn't say it happens with women more than men.

You also need to define open marriage. Does that mean spouses are free to date and have sex with whomever they want and with no need to tell their SO? Are there boundaries around who, when where and must inform the SO in all cases? Then of course you have swinging, swapping, etc.

All are marriage destroyers in my opinion. The open marriage posts that brought on your post here are a spouse wanting to change from a monogamous/exclusive sexual relationship to one where they are free to act single socially while keeping their domestic life intact. All cake eaters. It really isn't a marriage anymore.

I will concede that two adults that agree to some form of an "open" marriage are married living their life as they chose. Not for me, but that is their choice. In the case of the recent posts it is all one sided and the other spouse is being pushed to do something they don't want. That is NOT an open marriage. That is one spouse taking advantage and abusing the other. There is one person here that watches the kids while his wife is out with her BF having fun and getting laid while he mopes at home. He didn't want it, but has no spine to end it. So sad and not anything resembling marriage IMO.


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## allensmith775 (12 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It seems like the posts lately have been women wanting to open, but I wouldn't say it happens with women more than men.
> 
> You also need to define open marriage. Does that mean spouses are free to date and have sex with whomever they want and with no need to tell their SO? Are there boundaries around who, when where and must inform the SO in all cases? Then of course you have swinging, swapping, etc.
> 
> ...


Hoes will be hoes. Including wives! Hire a PI to research her past before getting serious with her. Saves a lot of headaches later.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Jimmysgirl said:


> I'll be honest, this is a concept I do not understand and I'm trying to understand other perspectives. Interestingly, and I could be wrong, it seems to be women wanting freedom within marriage. It seems like the men are the ones wanting monogamy. If your marriage is "open", what makes it a marriage? I'm being sincere, I truly do not know. If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


many of the so called open marriage threads here lately are not really about ethical, mutually consenting nonmonogamy.

They are essentially about one party declaring their own sexual emancipation to do as they please while expecting the other person to just live with it and continue to provide financial support and domestic and child care assistance while they themselves go out and have fun with other people. 

The point of having a husband in these cases is the husbands are the ones footing the bills and providing the financial support and are the ones babysitting while these women are getting it on with the stud guys. 

the stud guys are only in it for the poontang and would laugh at the thought of supporting these chicks or providing any child rearing assistance.

the husbands in these situations are weak and fearful and have no boundaries and allow themselves to be used and exploited because they have no other options.

the women are often the first girl that ever gave them the time of day or touched their winkie and so they believe in order to have a woman around at all, they must accept and tolerate that kind of abuse.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> many of the so called open marriage threads here lately are not really about ethical, mutually consenting nonmonogamy.
> 
> They are essentially about one party declaring their own sexual emancipation to do as they please while expecting the other person to just live with it and continue to provide financial support and domestic and child care assistance while they themselves go out and have fun with other people.
> 
> ...


It's the type of "man" that is now being raised. Sickening


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> It's the type of "man" that is now being raised. Sickening


That’s part of it. Many men are now raised to cater to women’s demands at the expense of their own well being and dignity (ask me how I know)

But we can’t point fingers only at how men are raised as today women are being raised with a sense of entitlement and “You Go Girl!”mentality that is basically telling them that it’s ok to hurt other people and emasculate her partner since she owns the vagina.

On one hand I think it is good that on a societal scale we are beginning to realize that women do have sexual wants and desires, and I think it’s good to question old and potentially outdated paradigms and be open to discussing non traditional forms of sexual expression and seeing if there may be some other things that both would find mutually agreeable. 

But what we’ve been seeing lately is almost unadulterated entitlement bordering on abuse and outright exploitation.

it’s one thing to mutually agree upon a non traditional sexual paradigm as long as it is mutually agreeable and mutually beneficial.

But it’s something all together different to just shove it down someone’s throat and basically say that they are going to go out and have their fun and that their partner better interfere with that “or else!!!”

Back in days of yore, people threatened their spouse with divorce and taking the kids and taking the marital assets if their partner cheated.

today we’re seeing people threaten their spouse with all that if they don’t let them screw other people.

There has been some threads here lately where I almost wondered if it would be more humane if they were to simply get some on side on the down low and really work on being discreet and not getting caught and keeping it to themselves.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Jimmysgirl said:


> I'll be honest, this is a concept I do not understand and I'm trying to understand other perspectives. Interestingly, and I could be wrong, it seems to be women wanting freedom within marriage. It seems like the men are the ones wanting monogamy. If your marriage is "open", what makes it a marriage? I'm being sincere, I truly do not know. If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


1. I have seen about as many men wanting an open marriage as women. It seems to be whichever partner isnt being satisfied by their spouse sexually wants to have opportunity for new meat, but want to keep the spouse too, for financial support or to cook meals or watch the kids.

2. The ENM folks will explain why it is still a marriage.

3. The point of still having a husband is now you can have cake and eat it too. There have been several men on here who instigated open in their marriages. One guy had been married for decades and pushed his wife to get with another couple they knew.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I agree with you, why get married if you arent going to be faithful.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would say they've been some trolls posting nonsense on TAM recently. Not you, OP...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> 1. I have seen about as many men wanting an open marriage as women. It seems to be whichever partner isnt being satisfied by their spouse sexually wants to have opportunity for new meat, but want to keep the spouse too, for financial support or to cook meals or watch the kids.


historically, men who were able to get other women in the first place just took on mistresses and courtesans and even prostitutes and didn’t try to get their wives to sign off on it. 

There was probably also a societal narrative that said boys will boys and to just look the other way. if a man had some status and the means, it was just an expectation and assumption.

one of the social shifts is now that women’s sexual desires are being recognized and we are shifting to a more egalitarian society, so today Instead of men just going out and getting mitresses and courtesans etc on their own as their granddaddies did, more are running it by their wives and laying it out there to see if it can be a mutually agreed upon thing.

this is what Oprah and much of society and even here on TAM have been telling people to do.

So I think this is a trend we will be seeing more and more of time goes on as societal mores and sexual paradigms change.

The key here is not whether nonmonogamy takes a foothold and becomes a thing or whether that genie can be shoved back into the bottle and everyone becomes monogamous again (hint- they never were) 
But that ship has sailed long ago, whether a relationship will be monogamous or nonmonogamous will have to be discussed and negotiated explicitly and it won’t be a once-and-done discussion over the course of a 50-60 year marriage.

The key as in all relationships will be if people are able to communicate and come to agreements collaboratively and respectfully, or whether one or the other will be a selfish, entitled and bullying asshole.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I would say they've been some trolls posting nonsense on TAM recently. Not you, OP...


There has been some trolls, but they are bringing up some things that are actually happening and reflecting on how some people are actually thinking and conducting themselves.

without naming names, the recent fireball of a thread on this topic was in very brazen and graphic and extreme verbiage,, but there are people that really do think and feel the way that was being described in that thread.

The wording was inflammatory, but the context was accurate for some people.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> There has been some trolls, but they are bringing up some things that are actually happening and reflecting on how some people are actually thinking and conducting themselves.


I honestly dont know how to distinguish a troll from an honest poster. The views expressed by the “fireball” have been expressed many times by people still active on TAM. And taking society as a whole, those views are maybe more mainstream than the traditional viewpoints. A large percentage of people have no problem abusing others so long as they get what they want.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> I honestly dont know how to distinguish a troll from an honest poster. The views expressed by the “fireball” have been expressed many times by people still active on TAM. And taking society as a whole, those views are maybe more mainstream than the traditional viewpoints. A large percentage of people have no problem abusing others so long as they get what they want.


@Thatredhead was found to be a troll and permabanned by admins. Good job admins btw.

Her persona was a perfect example of an experienced troll.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't have an opinion on open marriages, because every situation is very different. Of course, the troll pushed it to the extreme, but very often it's not so black and white and there are many facets to it. Open marriages can be the last resort to keep a failing marriage going, especially if sex-related. But it's bound to fail, in my opinion. Divorce is a better option.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Marriage has been many things over the centuries, and certainly not always one man one woman. Often it was one man and many women legally, ranging from China to Islam to European kings to Mormonism - and of course all the non-sanctioned extramarital relationships of both sexes. Now, women have more agency and rights, and certainly reliable birth control has opened up options.

So now sex can just be fun - for both sexes. Sex with the same person for years on end can become mundane for many people. Some people are naturally polyamorous and are happier in _consensual, ethical non-monogam_y. For a long time, my wife and I have been in that group, and we've had a successful and satisfying marriage and open/poly relationships for most of our 22 years together. It has only deepened and strengthened our relationship and even greatly improved our already great and frequent sex life. YMMV.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In my admittedly limited observations it's been the guy who wanted things open. It backfired in all cases because they were so blinded by the idea of screwing other women that it didn't occur to them that their wife would have an easier time finding other partners.

In fact, a close friend's hb asked for one years ago. She said no but resented him for it and eventually had an affair. After the affair started she approach him again for an open marriage. He readily agreed until he realized she had someone lined up and he didn’t, then he threw a fit.

There were some rough years but they got past it and are doing well now. Opening the marriage hasn't come up again.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I would say they've been some trolls posting nonsense on TAM recently. Not you, OP...


LOL. Lately it's STDD (same troll, different day).


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The only open marriage I know of (that's an agreed-upon open marriage, not just a guy who cheats constantly and his wife ignores it) is one of my best friends. Her husband is a pilot so he is out of town a LOT. She isn't really his physical "type;" they got together in college when they were very young and are best friends who really enjoy each other's company, they have two kids together and are great parents, it's just that he's not that into her physically. He was constantly cheating on her so they decided to just open the marriage because they chose to say that no matter what, they would not divorce. She doesn't know that I know, and doesn't talk to me about it, but she has made passes at my husband and apparently he's made passes at me but I'm so clueless about stuff like that I didn't realize it. Those in the know say that she doesn't care for it and only does it because she is SO against divorce and there's no way he's ever going to stop sleeping around. They've been together almost 30 years. It's one of those marriages that's long, so everyone will crow about how successful it is, but I'm not sure. She's my friend and I love her and am very protective of her, so I don't like it because I know it hurts her feelings, but it's not my business. Everyone does what works for them, I suppose.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I don't have an opinion on open marriages, because every situation is very different. Of course, the troll pushed it to the extreme, but very often it's not so black and white and there are many facets to it. Open marriages can be the last resort to keep a failing marriage going, especially if sex-related. But it's bound to fail, in my opinion. Divorce is a better option.


If open marriage is the last resort to save a marriage or to have a livable sex life, the marriage has already failed. 

I know this seems counter intuitive to the masses but those for whom open marriage works, have good marriages and good sex lives. 

If someone is trying to open the marriage to "save" it, it has already failed.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The only open marriage I know of (that's an agreed-upon open marriage, not just a guy who cheats constantly and his wife ignores it) is one of my best friends. Her husband is a pilot so he is out of town a LOT. She isn't really his physical "type;" they got together in college when they were very young and are best friends who really enjoy each other's company, they have two kids together and are great parents, it's just that he's not that into her physically. He was constantly cheating on her so they decided to just open the marriage because they chose to say that no matter what, they would not divorce. She doesn't know that I know, and doesn't talk to me about it, but she has made passes at my husband and apparently he's made passes at me but I'm so clueless about stuff like that I didn't realize it. Those in the know say that she doesn't care for it and only does it because she is SO against divorce and there's no way he's ever going to stop sleeping around. They've been together almost 30 years. It's one of those marriages that's long, so everyone will crow about how successful it is, but I'm not sure. She's my friend and I love her and am very protective of her, so I don't like it because I know it hurts her feelings, but it's not my business. Everyone does what works for them, I suppose.


Her marriage arrangement is her business, but to make a pass at you guys without discussing an arrangement is really crappy and not friend behavior.

And it may hurt her feelings but it sounds correct.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Her marriage arrangement is her business, but to make a pass at you guys without discussing an arrangement is really crappy and not friend behavior.
> 
> And it may hurt her feelings but it sounds correct.


Yes, our mutual friends pulled her away and took her home. She was drunk, not that that is an excuse. So was he when he came on to me, and his friends were all, dude, Mr Texas will beat you, stay away from her. We forgave it because they were hammered, but you are completely correct, that is NOT friend behavior. It was one transgression, if it happened again we wouldn’t be able to be friends any more.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

What is it with all these "open marriage" threads lately? Is it the same person or different people communicating telepathically about the same idiotic issue?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

pastasauce79 said:


> What is it with all these "open marriage" threads lately? Is it the same person or different people communicating telepathically about the same idiotic issue?


Like a lot of things these past couple yesrs...all about normalizing fringe behavior


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> If open marriage is the last resort to save a marriage or to have a livable sex life, the marriage has already failed.
> 
> I know this seems counter intuitive to the masses but those for whom open marriage works, have good marriages and good sex lives.
> 
> If someone is trying to open the marriage to "save" it, it has already failed.


that’s what I said… kind of…


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> If open marriage is the last resort to save a marriage or to have a livable sex life, the marriage has already failed.
> 
> I know this seems counter intuitive to the masses but those for whom open marriage works, have good marriages and good sex lives.
> 
> If someone is trying to open the marriage to "save" it, it has already failed.


I'd expand that beyond sex. I know of a couple who had one because she was looking to fill an emotional void she couldn't fill in her marriage.

He just wanted strange but thought he could dictate that she got the same thing.

Shockingly it didn't work and they divorced.....it's worth noting that the divorce was initiated by him because he thought he could use the threat to force her to avoid emotional involvement but he didn't want to give up his strange.

She's now married to the last fling she had during said open marriage (the now hb was single) and neither have any desire to open things.

He remarried as well but I don't know what their arrangement is.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Like a lot of things these past couple yesrs...all about normalizing fringe behavior


Well, I grew up in a different culture, many things that are scandalous in the U.S. are very normal to me. But when it comes to open a marriage I think both spouses should be on the same page, and spouses shouldn't act like spoiled brats when one says no thank you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jimmysgirl said:


> I'll be honest, this is a concept I do not understand and I'm trying to understand other perspectives. Interestingly, and I could be wrong, it seems to be women wanting freedom within marriage. It seems like the men are the ones wanting monogamy. If your marriage is "open", what makes it a marriage? I'm being sincere, I truly do not know. If I'm on a date with my boyfriend and he's filling my emotional needs, then we go to his place and he fills my physical needs before I go back home to my husband, what is the point in having a husband?


There's good and bad open marriages.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is just one man’s humble opinion but I think open relationships and traditional monogamous relationships may have some differences but at the core they are both relationships.

some people are good at relationships and some are not.

i think for the most part, the people that are good at relationships can be good in either an open or traditional relationship - it will just be a matter of preference and choice as to which.

the people who are not relationship material, will flounder and fail whether it is an open or traditional relationship.

If someone is a selfish jerk or entitled princess that doesn’t care about other people’s feelings and well being, they will fail regardless of the relationship type.

someone who is respectful, collaborative and able to connect and function with other people will be able to make either relationship dynamic work whichever is they preference.

in short, it’s the people involved that make the relationship work or fail - not the classification or the relationship itself.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

All this crap blows my mind, I and violently monogamous. Don't want any other woman, if wife were with another I would never be intimate with her again. If she brought up open marriage, I'm done. If it was forced, and I stayed for kids about to leave, i would be searching for her replacement and out intimacy would no longer exist.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Being curious, Psychology Today ( in 2019, before the pandemic ), said in an article titled:

*Open Relationships Are More Popular Than You Might Think *

Temple University researchers surveyed 2,270 U.S. adults and found that *4 percent* reported CNM.
An Indiana University study of 2,021 U.S. adults showed that 10 percent of the women and 18 percent of the men reported having at least one threesome.
And based on Census samples of *8,718 single American adults*, another group of Indiana researchers found that *21 percent*—one in five—reported at least one experience of CNM.
So 4% of adults in Consenting Non Monogamous situation. 10-18% reported having at least one threesome, but doesn't specify whether they were single or married. The 21% or SINGLE American adults with one experience with "CNM", not sure what that even means.

So it seems that on order of 4% of marriages are "open". At least some fraction of those must be the last gasp to avoid a divorce.

It seems to me that "successful" open marriages are a *very* small fraction of all marriages. So the title is actually a little over the top it seems to me. Maybe an "interesting" phenomena, like two-headed snakes or kittens with six toes. Hardly a threat to anyone. Maybe some of the ENM folks on TAM will chime in to correct me.

There must be more actual interest on TAM than just morbid curiosity, because there are at least as many threads about "Open" as there are about anatomical size variations.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> This is just one man’s humble opinion but I think open relationships and traditional monogamous relationships may have some differences but at the core they are both relationships.
> 
> some people are good at relationships and some are not.
> 
> ...


I think this very insightful and spot on. Regardless of monogamous, open, poly, homosexual, or whatever, there are some people that are just wired to be good at relationships and others that are not. If you get two of those people together, and desire the same type of relationship, they will have a healthy and sound relationship regardless of its configuration.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I wonder what percentage of open Ms started by one SO having a fling, and things started from there to eventually get to an open M.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> Being curious, Psychology Today ( in 2019, before the pandemic ), said in an article titled:
> 
> *Open Relationships Are More Popular Than You Might Think *
> 
> ...


There is a difference between people that have "reported at least one experience of CNM" or "at least one threesome" and a couple that is currently in an open relationship. 

Humans have an approximately 80 year life span. A lot can happen in 80 years. 

Take a poll of 80 year old today and it will probably be a very small minority of people that have only been with one sexual partner throughout their entire life. And bear in mind that 80 year olds today were raised in an age where traditional monogamous marriage at a young age was the mandate, there was no effective contraception and antibiotics that could treat common bacterial STIs had just been developed and there was no effective antiviral drugs to treat viral STIs. 

I am willing to be that if that poll was to be taken of 80 years olds 80 years from today that essentially no person reaching the age of 80 will have only been with one partner and almost all will have report having some kind of ENM experience. 

That doesn't mean that a large number of people will be in an open relationship AT ANY GIVEN TIME however. 

Some may have been in some kind of open relationship/ENM arrangment at some point with varying degrees of success and some will report being in traditional monogamous relationships with varying degrees of success. 

We also need to keep in mind that while some people may have tried an open relationship and had it go down in flames, However almost everyone that has walked the earth has had a monogamous relationship go down in flames. 

People that marry their high school sweetheart and spend the next 60-70 years together happily ever after with no serious problems at some point are exceedingly rare. Many people have had their heart broken and had significant relationship drama by the time they graduate high school and most will have had that happen by the time they reach 25. 

Let's not pretend that traditional, monogamous relationships do not leave a trail of broken hearts and dead bodies of their own.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I wonder what percentage of open Ms started by one SO having a fling, and things started from there to eventually get to an open M.


It does happen. 

However it is a lot easier and less hassle to simply cheat. 

Relationships under the best circumstances require a lot of work, collaboration, compromise, communication, sacrifice etc etc. 

To maintain an open relationship takes exponentially more work, collaboration, compromise, communication etc etc. It's easier and more efficient to just cheat when the opportunity presents itself. 

But it certainly does occur.


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