# Would you be upset if...



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Would you be upset if your spouse told you they've secretly been going to IC for several weeks? Here's why I ask...Several weeks ago during a "discussion" my H and I were having, my H said I seem so disengaged lately. I thought about it overnight, and the next morning I said the following (almost word for word):

Me: I was thinking about what you said last night about me being disengaged lately. I think you're right, maybe I have been. I guess I've been feeling kind of depressed lately. Not sure why. I don't want to feel this way and I don't want it to hurt you, but that's how I feel. So...I was thinking maybe it would be helpful if I would go to a counselor a few times or something. 

Him: I'm sorry you're feeling depressed. 

Me: Me too. 

Him: I love you. 

Me: I love you too.

Then we both had to go to work and I figured we'd talk more about it that night. When I got home, I knew instantly it was going to be a difficult evening. I walk in and find he is starting to make dinner (which he hardly ever does). He barely speaks to me but says hi. He has the most dramatic sad expression plastered permanently on his face throughout dinner and after, only speaking when he had to like "please pass me the salt." 

After dinner, we were sitting in the family room. He had the TV on but obviously wasn't watching it...just stared at the wall with the sad face. I asked him if he was going to talk. He shrugged, then finally said "well, you sure had plenty to say this morning!" I didn't even know what he wanted me to say in response. After a minute, he said "I had a HORRIBLE day because of that! I just about puked at lunch time I was so upset. It ruined my day!"

I said I was just trying to acknowledge his perception that I have been disengaged lately and I wanted to work on it. I said maybe I've just been extra stressed by work, or maybe it's my thyroid, I don't know. 

He said "I'll buy that maybe your work is making you stressed. But if your job makes you not be able to be a good mom and a good wife, then you just need to quit your job! You know darned well that if you go to counseling, they'll just tell you you need to find yourself and get divorced! You've made me VERY angry today!" 

I said I was sorry if I made him angry, that wasn't my intention at all. He gets up and goes to the bedroom and goes to bed 3 hours early. 

The next morning, he acted as though none of that had happened. He was even nicer than usual. He's never mentioned a word about it since, except for vague comments like "please don't be grumpy" if he senses I'm quiet and down. 

So I made an appt with a counselor on my own. I've been a few times. H has no idea. The counselor wants me to get him to come, which I know is the right thing. But know my omission to my H about going to counseling will be viewed as my being dishonest, which will upset him more. At this point, I care much less about how HE feels about my feelings, so I am going to tell him and request that he come with me. 

I think this has the potential to be a deal breaker moment in our marriage. If he agrees to go and actually has an open mind to the counseling advice, there's a shred of hope we will stay married. If he refuses to go and blows a gasket about my going, it may be my last straw. 

We have been to counseling several years ago. Only went a few times, b/c he started feeling like the counselor was "blaming" him for things that weren't his fault, so he wasn't going back. But I allowed him to get by with that. This time, if he does go but pulls the same "poor me, I get blamed for everything so I'm not going back" routine, I don't think I'll have anything left of me to give to this marriage.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

It would bother me to find out my spouse was secretly going to counseling, but in your case it's not really a secret. You did mention it to him, he just doesn't like the idea. All he heard from your confession about being depressed was 'counseling' and it made him mad. 

IDK, but it would bother me that he only focused on me going to counseling and not WHY I felt I needed to go.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> It would bother me to find out my spouse was secretly going to counseling, but in your case it's not really a secret. You did mention it to him, he just doesn't like the idea. All he heard from your confession about being depressed was 'counseling' and it made him mad.
> 
> IDK, but it would bother me that he only focused on me going to counseling and not WHY I felt I needed to go.


Exactly. Oh, I just remembered a part of the ugly conversation I left out. Somewhere in the part about him saying that he'll "buy" my idea that work is stressing me out, he also said that maybe if I'd learn to appreciate all the nice things I have in life, maybe I wouldn't be depressed.

So in effect, he said that if I'm feeling depressed, it's my own fault for letting my job affect my personal life and for not being able to appreciate what I have. Therefore no need for counseling in his eyes...he basically took it upon himself to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel. 

To add to my dishonesty about going to IC, I'll back up and say that my whole approach for bringing the counseling thing up wasn't exactly 100% honest. I've been disengaged...yes. I've been depressed...yes. But no, it's not really because of work or my thyroid. I know that. It's because I feel so emotionally detached from him because I can't talk to him about my true feelings. Every time I've tried in the past, he brings it back around to saying that I shouldn't feel that way, and how upset MY feelings make him. He can't deal with anyone's emotions but his own. So that's why I approached the counseling idea by keeping it all about me, so he wouldn't get defensive about himself. It obviously didn't work.

It's a lonely marriage when I have to always put on the smiley face and not get upset at him. For example, the other morning, I was putting on my makeup before work, and he made a little joke about something. I laughed a little then kept putting on my makeup. He said "don't be grumpy" in a pleading way. I said "I was just putting on my makeup...what did I do?" He said "You just seem grumpy. I don't like it when you're grumpy. It makes me grumpy too, and that's not cool. So have a good day, I guess" and moped to the front door like Eeyore. I just said good bye and have a good day and he left. This is how communication goes in our marriage because he can't handle any emotion from me but happy.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Why didn't you just tell him before you went that you had made an appt for one?

Looks like communication is one of the major problems in your marriage.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The Eeyore comment made me LOL. I know it's not funny but I totally got a picture of what you're going through by it.

He sounds like another guy just off the boat coming from Selfish Island.

It's difficult to express yourself to a person who will not see anyone but themselves in every. little. thing. Everything is subjective. You just want to shout at them... IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!!! 

Uh, now Carly Simon is playing in my head... 

If he doesn't want to lose you he needs to get real. Reality is, there are two people in your marriage, and you don't get happy on command. As a matter of fact, your emotions aren't to be controlled by him whatsoever. He should respect you and listen to what you're saying and also understand that you aren't a robot. 

Stick with your counseling, especially if you feel it's helping you. Tell him you've been going and would like him to join you, but whether he attends or not, you're not going to stop. He gets mad, he gets mad. It's just avoidance if you ask me.


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## sweaty teddy (Nov 13, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Exactly. Oh, I just remembered a part of the ugly conversation I left out. Somewhere in the part about him saying that he'll "buy" my idea that work is stressing me out, he also said that maybe if I'd learn to appreciate all the nice things I have in life, maybe I wouldn't be depressed.
> 
> So in effect, he said that if I'm feeling depressed, it's my own fault for letting my job affect my personal life and for not being able to appreciate what I have. Therefore no need for counseling in his eyes...he basically took it upon himself to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel.
> 
> ...


I think hes worried about you being depressed and feeling like hes failing at being a good husband/father/provider.

you told him you were disconected with him and have been acting aloof so to speak and now you are gong to spring I'm going to counseling behind his back (sorta behind his back).

hes not dumb he feels the tension and is feeling you out by trying to cheer you up and comunicating when your sad he feels sad. 

I think you both are hyper sensitive to each other.
and over thinking things.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

sweaty teddy said:


> I think hes worried about you being depressed and feeling like hes failing at being a good husband/father/provider.
> 
> you told him you were disconected with him and have been acting aloof so to speak and now you are gong to spring I'm going to counseling behind his back (sorta behind his back).
> 
> ...


You are exactly right. I know he feels that any sadness, disappointment, negativity I might feel is a reflection on him as a husband and provider. He takes everything personally, thereby taking away my right to express emotion without later having to console him about MY feelings. 

It's more than 'if I'm sad, he feels sad too'. He's not being empathetic. He's basically saying that by my being sad, I'm creating an emotional burden that HE now has to deal with. 

If he truly cared about my feelings apart from his, I think he would have wanted to ask me more questions about why I thought I was depressed and show concern for my well being. Instead, he outright said that my thought of seeing a counselor for my feelings of depression made him VERY ANGRY. As in, how dare I force him to have to deal with this?! 

Communication is without a doubt the BIGGEST problem in our marriage. It goes both ways, I recognize that. That's why I want to try to work on it, because its affecting pretty much every other aspect of our marriage, severely.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I think I mentioned before what I'd do... get him to go as a way to help you.

You can say that you did mention it, and that you know it's "all in yourself," but that you need his help so you can be the good mother and wife he wants to see.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If my partner had told me he was depressed and considering seeing a counselor (like you told your H), and then started counseling without telling me, I wouldn't be upset that he hadn't told me; I'd just be glad that he was seeking help.

Your H appears to see counseling as a threat to your marriage, whereas in fact it is a positive step to get to the bottom of the problem. I can't see why he should have a problem with that.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

From my experience, the "I'm unhappy" or "I'm depressed" thing can be very intangible and a moving target. Maybe this is a male/female thing or just a contrast in personality or outlook but it can be very hard to relate to. Can you image what a happy marriage is for you? Can you be specific about what your husband's role and what he does to fulfill that role is? This is rhetorical but I'm thinking you both need to know what the goal looks like. If he knows what it is, he genuinely does those things and you're still not happy....

To answer the original question, I be a little hurt if it was done without me knowing but I'd be more concerned with the need for it especially if there were issues I had no clue about.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Your H appears to see counseling as a threat to your marriage, whereas in fact it is a positive step to get to the bottom of the problem. I can't see why he should have a problem with that.


Clearly he sees it as a threat. Hence the "they'll just tell you to get divorced" comment. So again, instead of allowing me to deal with my emotions and needs, he made it all about how this affected him. And clearly he doesn't trust me to have good judgement and to use discernment in dealing with my own problems, because he assumes that I'll blindly file for divorce at the mere suggestion of it. I suppose, though, that since I've allowed him to tell me how to feel and think for so long, he naturally assumes that I'll give that right to a counselor too. Ugh...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

With all due respect, your husband sounds like the person who is depressed here. If not, he is at least having trouble owning his feelings. Your reaching out for help with your feelings is modeling healthy behavior which I can only see as a good thing, especially if he is somewhat resistant. Not telling him is easily understandable if you were not completely sold on the idea yourself and you wanted to try it out and see if you were really on board with it before you brought it all to his attention.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm going to be blunt. No disrespect intended.

Your husband is a big baby, immature & needs counseling himself.

How horrible for you not to be able to tell him you are going to counseling and/or a doctor for your depression for fear of his reaction.

Do what you have to do to get well for you & your children. I can tell you are a strong woman & wish you the best.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> With all due respect, your husband sounds like the person who is depressed here. If not, he is at least having trouble owning his feelings. Your reaching out for help with your feelings is modeling healthy behavior which I can only see as a good thing, especially if he is somewhat resistant. Not telling him is easily understandable if you were not completely sold on the idea yourself and you wanted to try it out and see if you were really on board with it before you brought it all to his attention.


He is depressed. There is no doubt. I've told him that for years. He doesn't think he is. 

It was asked earlier why I didn't tell him when I made the 1st appt. I thought the answer was obvious, but maybe not. When I told him I was thinking about going to counseling, he blew up, got angry, and made me feel like I didn't have any reason to need counseling. I was very hurt by his response. Then I realized for our entire marriage this is the game we've always played. He can be sad, angry, resentful, mean, and I am expected to be understanding and supportive...I learned to let him squash my feelings and emotional needs and/or completely ignore them. Everything that happens in this marriage revolve around his needs. What does he want? What is most convenient for him? What makes him happy? That's how every decision gets made, down to little things like which restaurant we choose to eat at. 

So...my attending counseling on my own is something I'm doing for ME for once. I have to start looking out for my own needs, and addressing them in healthy ways. I needed to go to counseling on my own at first, because I needed a safe place to express my feelings without being judged. It's liberating, actually. Just being able to say things to someone without having to worry about how it affects their feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I'm going to be blunt. No disrespect intended.
> 
> Your husband is a big baby, immature & needs counseling himself.
> 
> ...


Emerald, your words brought me to tears. The tears are flowing as I type this. It's sad that I am able to feel so much more compassion and understanding from a complete stranger than I do from my husband. Thank you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Emerald, your words brought me to tears. The tears are flowing as I type this. It's sad that I am able to feel so much more compassion and understanding from a complete stranger than I do from my husband. Thank you...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are welcome! It is important for you to get well first before doing something drastic like divorce. Your husband may be a narcissist. I was a depressed wife in my 1st marriage to an emotionally abusive controlling man. He wanted me to get well however so I could perform my household & childcare "duties."

I think your husband loves you (mine did) but they have a cold, manipulative way of showing it.

Once you get better, you will find your "voice" & hopefully find the courage to get your husband to treat you better.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> Emerald, your words brought me to tears. The tears are flowing as I type this. It's sad that I am able to feel so much more compassion and understanding from a complete stranger than I do from my husband. Thank you...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife said this same thing to me, and I agree that it is very sad. But she doesn't own up to the fact that she did more than her share of creating a huge distance between us. It's hard to be compassionate towards someone who treated you like crap. 

OP that's why strangers can be more compassionate - there are no negative feelings or history to overcome. I'm not saying that you did anything bad, but when you are in a power struggle with your spouse, which seems to be the case, nothing is easy or straightforward.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

It seems bizarre to me to be that torqued out of shape over you going to IC. Why would that bother him?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Clearly he sees it as a threat. Hence the "they'll just tell you to get divorced" comment. So again, instead of allowing me to deal with my emotions and needs, he made it all about how this affected him. And clearly he doesn't trust me to have good judgement and to use discernment in dealing with my own problems, because he assumes that I'll blindly file for divorce at the mere suggestion of it. I suppose, though, that since I've allowed him to tell me how to feel and think for so long, he naturally assumes that I'll give that right to a counselor too. Ugh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was told by several counselors that divorce would be the best option for me, before I made the decision to divorce. It doesn't like you're the sort of person, either, to take such a big step without getting a 'second opinion.'

If your H knows that there's a problem in the marriage itself, why doesn't he try to work on that instead of getting defensive about you being depressed?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> My wife said this same thing to me, and I agree that it is very sad. But she doesn't own up to the fact that she did more than her share of creating a huge distance between us. It's hard to be compassionate towards someone who treated you like crap.
> 
> OP that's why strangers can be more compassionate - there are no negative feelings or history to overcome. I'm not saying that you did anything bad, but when you are in a power struggle with your spouse, which seems to be the case, nothing is easy or straightforward.


Point taken. I agree, strangers can only comment based on what info we give them. They don't live with us and see the day to day interactions. I also understand it's not easy to be compassionate to someone who is distant. For us, it may be the 'chicken or the egg' syndrome. Is he less compassionate and caring because I'm distant, or am I distant because he's less compassionate and caring? 

I can say with confidence that I don't treat him like crap. I never curse at him, yell at him, or speak disrespectfully to him. I go out and scrape the snow and ice off his car while he's in the shower getting ready for work (and I have to get ready myself). I make coffee in the morning and bring it to him while he watches the news. I call the pharmacy and get refills of his medications for him because the pharmacy is more on my way home from work than his. These are examples...they seem minimal when they are singled out. But I say this to show that I'm not a selfish high-maintenance wife. If anything, I've allowed myself to be a doormat as far as not speaking up for my needs. I take full responsibility for that. People treat you how you teach them to treat you. I'm learning that.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> If your H knows that there's a problem in the marriage itself, why doesn't he try to work on that instead of getting defensive about you being depressed?


Because he knows it would mean he'd have to directly acknowledge the problems we have and face them. Most likely he'd have to put forth effort to make changes in himself. He likes to bury his head in the sand and hope problems will go away. He gets defensive about me being depressed because he can't do anything to instantly fix it and make it go away so he can continue to bury his head in the sand.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

fiora said:


> When you present a problem to a guy like "I'm depressed and sad often and IDK what to do" Of course they're going to be upset, they work trying to give you things like a house and family and do what they can and your sad? They don't know how to fix that and relinquishing that power to someone else(like a therapist) might be hard.


I'm sure that is exactly his thought process right now. But, is this a normal and expected response? Would most men react this way, by getting upset and telling me basically I have nothing to be depressed about therefore I don't need to see a counselor? Again, do you see how this whole thing has come back to being about HIM, how HE feels, how I should understand how HE was made to feel threatened by my wanting to seek counseling? This is precisely the issue at hand here. I am not allowed to have feelings, needs, opinions unless he gives me permission to have them. 



fiora said:


> Keeping secrets from him like this wasn't a very good thing to do, but because you did go behind his back, you should approach the matter carefully when you do tell him, the idea you would go out and get something from someone else that he couldn't give to you could be very shattering and make him feel even more skeptical and worried about issues.


Agreed, but did I not give him a chance to give me the support I needed, only to have it thrown back in my face with guilt, anger and pouting? It would be different if I never said anything to him, but sought counseling on my own. But no, I thought I should talk to him first, for some reason expecting him to say "hey, sorry you're depressed. Is there anything you want to talk about? Is there anything I can do? Or...If you think counseling would help, then you should go ahead and make an appointment." No, I got shut down, minimized, and blown off. And now I'm supposed to be understanding and sensitive to _his_ feelings?

As far as finding the right counselor for both of us (if he'll agree to go), I do agree. But for these first few IC sessions, I am finding it to be so helpful to have an outlet for all my pent up feelings. Sometimes I'll talk for 10-15 min at a time with little talking from the therapist. He's letting me vent and lay stuff out on the table so I can start sorting through what's important for me to address and what I need to let go. This way, once (if) my H and I get to MC together, I won't feel the need to vomit 19 years of random feelings and emotions on my H, which for sure would make him put up major defensive walls and make him not want to go back.


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