# Dealing with Husband's Cheating History



## Lucerne (Mar 14, 2014)

Hello, kind people of TAM. I have been a lurker here for the last two weeks. First of all I want to thank all of you for sharing your experience, opinion and advice. I have learned a lot from my short time here.

Unfortunately it has come to a point where I feel the need to share my story with you and ask for your support through what I am still struggling with every single day. Please be prepared for a wall of text.

*Background on my marriage:*

My husband and I met through an online game when we were still teens. We were good friends before we began dating and helped each other through those tough years. We had a long-distance relationship with occasional visits before I moved to his country and we got married. We did not hold a wedding but I do want to throw a renewal-of-vows party for friends and family later on.

*Other tidbits:*


We are best friends.
We both had crushes on other people before we started dating.
We were each other's first date.
We had a very steady on-going relationship. We never broke up in between.
We still talk to our mutual friends that we met through the game.
We used to joke about how marriage wasn't a big step for us, that it was mainly a way for us to move across countries and be together.
I have done tons of research on a range of topics related to infidelity, anything from scientific research, opinion pieces to a blog written by a cheater who turned his life around. I have shared some of the more interesting articles with my husband.
We share an apartment with two roommates who are mutual friends of ours. The female roommate is rarely here due to work but we see the male roommate every day. We share the living room.

*The initial pain:*

It all came crashing down before new years. For the longest time I thought we had something perfectly fine going on. Little did I know he had been flirting with other women since before we got married and had PA with two women. He acts like he's single to a selected group of people.

When we first started dating, I adjusted so I was no longer jealous of his female friends (some are mutual friends). I have male friends, so I believe in having friends of the opposite gender. The problem is I seem to have a stronger moral code and firmer boundaries than him. I assumed he was the same as me and you know what people say about assumptions.

For the month/months leading up to DDay, my husband frequently smiled at his phone while he texted his "friends." I would sometimes inquire whom he was talking to. He never gave me a straight answer and he was always secretive. Then he started to ask me to stay out of our bedroom for about 10 minutes so he could finish doing "his thing." (We usually hang out in the living room.) I know both of us sometimes read/watch erotic stuff, so I reluctantly gave him his space.

He left his Skype open on my computer twice. The first time it happened, I asked him who were all those girls that I didn't know. He said some were people who randomly friend you and some were friends that he met in other games or places. He said I could read his chats if I wanted to. I let it go because I still trusted him completely despite my sinking gut feelings. However, the second time it happened, I called his bluff and skimmed through some of the chats. Since they were flirtatious in nature, I had a talk with him. I was angry but very calm this first time around.

At first he was also confused himself. He said he has tried to stop this behavior on his own before, but he'd eventually fallen back into the habit. He said it's in human nature to want to have sex with multiple people and he didn't realize he was this way before we got together. He admitted to liking the thrill of the chase, but he insisted he was not really interested in other women.

I think the first time I found out, he was sorry that he got caught. His own words were "I'm sorry that you feel hurt by this." I understood perfectly well people's desire to self-preserve, so I thought long and hard about what he said and how I wanted to handle the whole thing. I knew there are swingers and open relationships out there, so I wasn't completely blind to alternate sexual lifestyles. I seriously considered, reevaluated what I want and did lots of research. I could barely sleep that night.

The next morning I started to ask him for details. Then somehow, surprising myself, I asked him about whether he has gotten naked with or even had sex with other women. He reluctantly answered yes to both and gave me a count. I tried to get time frames and names but he refused, saying they are in the past. He also insisted it was all just sexual attraction, that there was no emotional involvement. He even said at least one of the two other women he had sex with was on the same page as him in regards to sex being just sex.

In the end I wrote him a letter and told him that I could be understanding and I even admit to my problems in our relationship, but he has hurt me deeply and I would not agree to allow him do whatever he wants with other women. I think he was more than happy that I was willing to give him another chance to try again, though at that time he said he could not promise me definite results. (I hear you, that's a big warning sign. Sadly I didn't know better then.)

*Second pain:*

After a month of Hysterical Bonding, I very slowly worked through my doubts and watched him closely. He refused to share certain details with me, though he had opened up a bit more about what phone apps he used to contact other women. He did show me that he deleted most of the inappropriate contacts. I told him I'd appreciate it if he'd tell me everything himself without prompting.

Near the end of January, I took a chance to check his e-mail, facebook and saved a copy of his Skype chat record. I read through some of them and found out a lot more than what he originally told me. For a while I thought he was the one being pursued by other women, then I found out he had been acting like he's single all along, trying to hook up with past coworkers and people online. He also lied to the people he tried to hook up with and started to reply to hook-up postings again.

This time I was furious. I tried to keep my voice even, but my whole body was shaking with rage. I told him flat out that he needed to choose between me or his singledom. Last time I gave him a chance and I chose to stay with him, thinking that we could work through it and become better persons. This time I left the choice up to him. I was fully willing to walk away if he wanted to be single again. I have no intention of being his Plan B or placeholder.

I think I put him in shock. I have learned since then being understanding and supporting as a BS does not work in our relationship. He cried and he told me that I'm worth it, that he will purge and change. I told him he needed to read some links and the document I wrote up after first DDay with suggestions on how to avoid temptations and do more self reflection.

I did see the change in him over time. He said one thing that really resonated with him was when I said he was investing all the time he could have spent with me with other people. I did notice how he has been redirecting a lot of his energy on me. We now spend more time together and he's not as secretive as before.

*Epiphany:*

I tried to stay positive and started to mentally withdraw myself from him. I admitted to myself that I had codependency issues and worked on that. It does not make it hurt any less, but I now have a better perspective on our relationship.

Now I understand the affairs were definitely 100% his fault. I was dissatisfied at times, too, but I would never do such a thing to hurt him. He may have a different moral code, but he needs to understand that deception is never acceptable.

Today was not a good day. I am part upset that I gave in to snooping on his computer, something I said I wouldn't do again, but deep down I am truly glad that I now have solid proof of both of his PAs. I had asked him before, whom he was really protecting by withholding information. I knew about one of his PAs before, but it seemed to be a one time thing so I let it go. The one I found out today, however, seemed to be the one that went on multiple times (he did tell me that) and I am not so quick to believe that the OW is not emotionally involved at all. She seems to have problems of her own, but I would not blame her for the affair as she seems to think my husband is still single.

Quite honestly I have half a heart to text her. More than that, I want to talk to my husband tonight and request that he tell her to cease all contact because he's married, made a gigantic mistake and has recommitted himself to our relationship. That, and he needs to go through with changing his facebook status to married. I have requested it before, but he refused on the grounds that he didn't want some of his older acquaintance to think he's active on fb (some he has fallen out with). Seriously though, when he refused the first time, I knew he was just saying that to get out of doing it, because changing his status will raise questions and potentially make him look bad.

I know I need to get past this with or without him. That said, I love him too much to not try to support him in improving himself. We are having a good month so far and I do not want to undo the progress. Eventually I think we will need to let our families know about his affairs. I do want to have support, since I know what it's like having been doing it alone for so long, so here I am on TAM, sharing my story.

As things are right now, we are moving along, trying, and I'm keeping my eyes open, observing how things go.

Thank you very much for reading.


----------



## Lucerne (Mar 14, 2014)

My husband and I talked about each other's boundaries and views on sex last night. I told him, to paraphrase: "it does not matter what your own personal boundaries are. Your boundaries in a committed relationship between two people are set by the other person. If you can live with it, then live by it. If you cannot, then you're free to opt out, but do tell me before you act on it so I can walk away from the relationship first." My boundaries for him are still the same and he knows it. He told me that since he does not really have any boundaries, he'd allow me to have sex with other people as long as I'm happy. I replied even so, I'd let him know beforehand because I'd want to make sure he hasn't changed his mind about his boundaries for me. That, and the fact that at this point in life, I'm perfectly content with what I have right now. I have my own personal boundaries, so I suppose he gets an extra layer of protection.

He said he mainly feels bad for lying to me and other people. He also apologized again for hurting me. His view is that sex is just sex. He only has intimacy with me during sex because he loves me. He only wanted sex from the other women. He mentioned that he has a kink for older women (we talked about it before), but he does not try anything with strangers. He has tried to flirt up his older coworkers from his previous jobs, but all of his advances have been turned down. As a woman, I have been on the receiving end of that kind of attention. I had half a heart to tell him that when guys tried that on me (especially knowing I'm taken), I felt disrespected and saw them as immature and almost pathetic. But I refrained from telling him that, since I already told him something similar when this subject first came up.

I reiterated that I used to chase after multiple people when I was single, so I know what it's like to be interested in more than one person (in general, not just sexual). However, after I started to be with him, I made the conscious decision to make it between just the two of us and I'm happy with that. I felt it's more of a worthy challenge than my missing out. I don't see having sex with multiple people being wrong when one is single. Honestly, I think deep down he knows it's wrong to do that when one is in a committed relationship without prior agreements because otherwise, why would he present himself as an available single person to his sexual interests?

Regarding the OW who tried to maintain contact with him, I found out yesterday that he had occasionally replied an emoticon to her messages, even though I told him to cease all contact with people he was explicitly sexual with. He has sent her a message to let her know that he is in a relationship and he has deleted her from his contacts list upon my request. (She kept asking if he's still single.) I told him he's not to reply to her again, and he needs to come to me if he sees any new messages from her. I felt like she's a victim in this, too, so we pretty much negotiated the terms on what he'd say to her to end their contact. I just hope it was enough and she would move on.

He also reconfirmed that he plans on letting the rest of his acquaintances know he's married. So that's good.


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

First of all - you will probably get more replies if you shorten your posts a bit.  All of the text just becomes really overwhelming for folks - myself included. Alternately, you could always post some "cliff notes" at the bottom. 

Anyway, if you choose to remain in this relationship, you need to:

1) Realize that nothing you say or do can keep him faithful/in the relationship/etc. Read this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

2) Make sure you monitor him and gather evidence. What do we know? He's a liar. What do liars do? They LIE. I don't think you have the truth yet. In fact, I would say that virtually no one has the full truth within a couple of weeks of D-Day.

3) You have taken him back after betrayals time and time again. What makes this time different? Why wouldn't he do this to you again? Time for some consequences. What are they going to be?

Also, I'm confused. Something is not adding up here. Can you clarify the following?

From your first post:


> We both had crushes on other people before we started dating.
> We were each other's first date.


From your second post:


> I reiterated that I used to chase after multiple people when I was single, so I know what it's like to be interested in more than one person


Was there a non-monogamous element to your relationship at some point? I hope that doesn't offend you - but between that and the comment your WH made that he would be okay with you having sex with someone else, I'm just wondering?


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If you want to try to reconcile, then you need to expose him as a married man to all friends and esp. to any OW's. His excuse for not changing his fb status is complete BS. He needs to do this as part of the exposure. He also needs to agree to transparency.

Don't believe he has changed. He will just find new ways to hide things.

And OP, just a general observation -

You are married to someone who has a fundamentally different view of marriage than you do. He's not going to change something that benefits him so much. You have given him no consequences. You are just asking him to play nice. He has had his cake and eaten it, too, and you have not done anything, really, to change this. 

He is not material for a traditional marriage. Ask him if he wants an open marriage, i.e., you both have 'just sex' with anyone else you want. If he gets jealous, he's a hypocritical cake-eater; if he says 'yes,' then you have further confirmation that the two of you are not suited. Either way, I don't think you should stay married to him. If you do, you are in for ongoing betrayal and hurt.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

alte Dame said:


> If you want to try to reconcile, then you need to expose him as a married man to all friends and esp. to any OW's. His excuse for not changing his fb status is complete BS. He needs to do this as part of the exposure. He also needs to agree to transparency.
> 
> Don't believe he has changed. He will just find new ways to hide things.
> 
> ...


Bingo. I agree 105% with this. You two have fundamentally different views on sex and marriage, and either he will be deprived or you will be tortured. I think you should move on.

If you choose not to, do a 180 anyways. Tell him you think that fundamentally you have different views, and that its over. Have him served with divorce papers. Get out and get some fresh air, ride the bicycle, or write down your feelings at a park somewhere (you are well spoken, and so it is likely therapeutic for you). Do things that make you a better version of yourself, and be prepared to start over and find someone else. He will immediately have a choice to make...

FWIW though, again I reiterate that alte Dame has hit the nail on the head.


----------



## TimesLikeThese (Sep 13, 2012)

As already stated, fundamentally different views on something as important as marriage just isn't sustainable. People can have different opinions on a lot of things, but certain fundamentals require that both people are completely in line.


----------



## Lucerne (Mar 14, 2014)

dignityhonorpride said:


> Also, I'm confused. Something is not adding up here. Can you clarify the following?


Thank you for your suggestions. I wrote the whole thing in one breath, so it's really long. I will go back and cut out some parts.

We each had one major crush on different people before we got together. For me, I led multiple people on while trying to pursue the guy I was most interested in. Looking back, I did enjoy the thrill and all the attention, so I could sort of see where my husband gets his high from (though his is more about sex). Neither of us dated anyone before we dated each other. No point in our relationship did we make an "open relationship" agreement. I consciously made the decision to dedicate myself to him in more ways than one and I assumed he did the same, since we both appeared to be conservative daters in the beginning.

We have different views on sex in a committed relationship, but our view on marriage is the same. We see marriage as more of a formality/legality than relationship milestone (in our case anyway). The only thing that matters is the agreements between the persons involved. He has weighed between his freedom and me. He chose me. I think he's struggling with changing himself that way to fit with my ideals, since I wouldn't budge on my stance. Right now he thinks either one of us would suffer. I tried to make him see that there is a bright side to being monogamous, but I'm not sure he understands how much he will lose over how little he will gain. Then again, that's me looking at it; he might see a different picture.

We're still working through it. I told him I needed an outlet and that I would be posting our story on this forum. I was surprised when he showed me he was reading the thread. This was unexpected, but I'm taking it as a good sign.


----------



## TimesLikeThese (Sep 13, 2012)

Well then, Mr Lucerne, you need to decide if being faithful is something you can do. If not, do your wife a favor and end your marriage, even if it's difficult for both of you, you'll likely be better off in the long run. Cheating destroys people and if you love your spouse don't do that to her.


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

> *He has weighed between his freedom and me*. He chose me. I think he's struggling with changing himself that way to fit with my ideals, since I wouldn't budge on my stance. Right now he thinks either one of us would suffer.


I've been in a similar position. (For reference, my D-Day was over a year ago.) The bolded part particularly relates to my marriage / my WH. He was always very promiscuous (dozens and dozens of sexual partners before we met), whereas I have always been very conservative (you could count my sexual partners on one hand). I remember patiently waiting for my WH to choose between me and freedom.

I wish that instead of trying to convince him, I'd said, "Okay. You go try freedom, and let me know how it goes," and walked out the door. I think then he would have really seen all. the. crap. that I do for him, all the roles I fill in his life, and the value inherent in a committed, long-term partner. "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone." I mean, at least I would have preserved my dignity. 

I want that for you. Hang onto your dignity. NO begging, no pleading your case, no statistics on the benefits of long-term relationships/monogamy, etc. You are a great partner. If he can't see that, it's his loss. Know that and LIVE IT. 



> I tried to make him see that there is a bright side to being monogamous, but I'm not sure he understands how much he will lose over how little he will gain.


This makes me really, really, really sad. I mean, truly. Leaving aside the fact that he made a lifelong commitment to you, you just found out he's betrayed you _again_, and you're the one selling him on why he should stay. That's backwards. He should be begging you to give him another chance.

I hope he deserves your kindness and your love.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Your husband doesn't only have a problem with fidelity, he has a problem with integrity - he actually hesitates to change his fb status to married (wow) - and with honesty - he refuses to give you time frames regarding the women he's been naked with/had sex with (by the way, it's the height of arrogance for an unfaithful spouse to determine which facts regarding infidelity he or she will reveal to the betrayed spouse).

If you really want him to try to get a clue about what you're going through and you really want to try reconciliation, I suggest you get the book How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. I bought it then highlighted passages I especially wanted my husband to read. It's a short, easy to read book. It's good for spouses who just don't "get it" and it's clear yours doesn't.

Also, you should get yourself tested for STD's. I'm not sure it would help to have him tested because I'm not sure he's going to stop cheating on you. But even if he used protection (which is unlikely - and even if he tells you he did, I wouldn't trust him), it won't keep him and therefore you from being exposed to HPV. You could develop cervical cancer if it goes undetected and untreated. You need to have regular paps with an HPV test in order to be safe going forward because he has now put you at risk for this. And start using condoms with him all the time now. Even though it won't protect you from HPV, it will protect you from other diseases.

Other betrayed spouses who post on TAM have been infected so don't think it can't happen to you.

Best of luck - and I'm so sorry you're going through this.


----------



## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

Get out and start rebuilding your self esteem. Don't make the same mistakes I did.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Your husband has NO EMPATHY for what he has done/is doing to you.

He sees things only from his worldview. His world is a place where he would have no problem with you getting cream pied by another man while being married to him. How can you expect someone that has no sexual possessiveness over his wife whatsoever to have any kind of inclination of what this does to you? It's a trick question. You can't.

What you're saying to your husband about boundaries in your heart to hearts is logical to ME, logical to many on this board who believe marriage and committed relationships should be monogamous. However, all your husband is doing is smiling, nodding, saying, "Yes dear, I agree dear, I will dear." and then going back to cheating.

You cannot reason, you cannot beg, you cannot nice, logic, plead or implore your cheating husband to become faithful. It's a matter of character. It's a matter of choice. Nothing you've done or haven't done makes him cheat. He does it because he can and he wants to.

He is a serial cheater. What you've uncovered (which is a lot) is not even the tip of the Iceberg of what he's done. What you know of is worthy of a divorce. However, you're not even threatening it. He knows he has you where he wants you. The cake having and the cake eating - yeah he's getting to do both.

Everyone including myself knocks on Dr. Phil, but I'd have to say that this episode is worth a look. Don't become this shell of a woman.

You need to put yourself first and get a divorce. Unfortunately, you've invited him to read on this site. I think that was a mistake. While it's great for couples to participate together on TAM, I also think this site can be misused by unremorseful cheaters on how to manipulate and better hide their affairs. 

Crying is not remorse. Don't buy into crocodile tears. Don't buy into words - buy into actions. 

Since he has not demonstrated remorse or willingness to stop cheating by what you've posted. Any advice you're given here that can help you heal or potentially fix this marriage can also be used by him to manipulate you since he's reading it too.


----------



## Tiberius (Mar 22, 2012)

Lucerne, the other posters have given you solid advice.
You do not say if you have children, I would guess not, which makes it easier to make a clean cut.

Serial cheaters never change, cut your losses and move on. You sound like an educated and intelligent woman and I am sure you deserve someone who would love and cherish you and not expose you to diseases.

And Mr Lucerne, my husband deleted his facebook page and Skype when he got discovered in an EA, plus gave me full transparency of everything and you can not change your status to married? Pathetic.....


----------

