# A life without sex. What to do? or is it yet another game?



## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

shortening a long story.
sex between my self and my wife has been getting worse over the years.
In the beginning she was quite adventurous but slowly it gradually became a case of missionary position only. usually saturday morning then sometimes sunday. she has a rule about if i drink beer then no sex. so it rarely happens during the week.
now my problem, in the beginning it was great but these days it just feels like duty sex. she has hangups about touching down there. she never touches herself. now to add we were both involved in a car accident last year, she has ongoing problems with her hips and back that causes her pain.
myself early this year possibly may have broke my wrist. it was x rayed but the didnt find definitive proof. however i cant put any weight on it.
hence the only position available can be some what of an issue.
now 3 weeks ago we had totally impromptu during the day great sex. you could tell she was totally into it. and totally restored my faith that there might be hope for us.
then its back to how it was in fact worse.
the other day it felt pointless she barely kissed me during and after i was totally fed up of the situation.
well today i thought id try a last time.. still feeling fed up with the situation. reached across ran my had over her body. progressed things she opened legs. put a finger in .. after about a min she closed her legs. the prompt for me to remove finger then said "are you coming over then" as she does being the prompt for me to get on top.
i couldnt do it . just held her a bit she said something but i said in a minute. 5 mins later she got dressed then went about the days routines.
nothings been said at all about this morning.
is that it for us ... i dont know what to do?
now not wanting to sound bad i am very understanding about the accident and her pain however it is no different than before


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So, what happens when you talk about your sex life, and how it's making you feel?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you have children?

Have you read MMSLP?


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

We have spoke about it in the past. Usually it just gets dismissed. Sex with the light on is a no no, and other possitions are a no be cause she has issues with her body. Theres nothing wrong with it in my eyes and I do tell her.

Yep ive read the mmslp a very interesting read. I do like the phrase rational hamster. And bat s crazy.
A good insight.
About 2 years ago. When eploying the book things did change all of a sudden things did improve a lot. However they rapidly changed to the bad again.
as for children nope.
I have a teenage son from another relationship nad she has her son from another. And trust me they cause enough issues.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So beer during the week means more than sex? Or did I read that wrong? What's the problem with sex after beer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

The thing is she doesnt drink. Me I like a beer or so. In the begining it was an ultimatum she used to use. That kind of stuck.
I do admit these days I will have a beer to avoid being put in a possition. Dont get me wrong I put everthing into sex and for me the biggest part is a woman getting off. However these days with the lack of effort on her part I know im omnto a loser . So I avoid it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Cut your drinking. Don't use alcohol to dull the pain. No good can come of it.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

Ask her to explain. Be direct but gentle


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

No way out of this one man. The beer, meh.....kind of a dumb manipulation technique but you agreed to it so you;re stuck.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

For whatever reason, she doesn't find you sexually attractive and she hasn't for years. How often do strange women hit on you?


Were you driving when you had the wreck?

Ages?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Cut your drinking. Don't use alcohol to dull the pain. No good can come of it.


Hang on! All the OP has said is that he 'enjoys a beer or so'. That does not mean he goes to bed pissed every night.

I enjoy my wine, maybe two glasses an evening over dinner. The last time I was drunk was years ago. I don't like it.

I work all day and when I get home all I look forward to is my wine and a nice meal.
I have nothing in common with my wife and and am in a sexless marriage. So for me a perfect evening is my wine and a good (doesnt mean unhealthy) meal....bit of chill time then bed.

Providing the OP's drinking is not causing other problems or is detrimental to his health, let him get on with it.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Mark123 said:


> shortening a long story.
> sex between my self and my wife has been getting worse over the years.
> In the beginning she was quite adventurous but slowly it gradually became a case of missionary position only. usually saturday morning then sometimes sunday. she has a rule about if i drink beer then no sex. so it rarely happens during the week.
> now my problem, in the beginning it was great but these days it just feels like duty sex. she has hangups about touching down there. she never touches herself. now to add we were both involved in a car accident last year, she has ongoing problems with her hips and back that causes her pain.
> ...



I totally sympathize about her accident and the pain it must cause her. But you can still give her oral and have her use a small vib at the same time.....mind blowing orgasm for her, on her back, relaxed.

Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz and compare the results. You both might be totally surprised at each others true needs.

Home | The 5 Love Languages®

If she doesn't drink and you only have a beer or two, once in a while and not every evening, I don't see a problem with that. But if you giving up alcohol gets her more in the mood, give up the alcohol. There is no benefit to drink, unless you want to raise your estrogen levels, slow your metabolism and get fat.

You have no kids.

Sounds like she might be too comfy.

Have either of you gained a lot of weight, making you feel unsexy?


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Machiavelli said:


> For whatever reason, she doesn't find you sexually attractive and she hasn't for years. How often do strange women hit on you?
> 
> 
> Were you driving when you had the wreck?
> ...


as much as it pains me to admit. the signs definitely point in that direction.

I was driving when in the crash but not my fault . someone ran into the back of us.

im 41 shes 40. 



askari said:


> Hang on! All the OP has said is that he 'enjoys a beer or so'. That does not mean he goes to bed pissed every night.
> 
> I enjoy my wine, maybe two glasses an evening over dinner. The last time I was drunk was years ago. I don't like it.
> 
> ...


so very similar. as time goes on we do seem to have less and less in common.
for her a night is to watch tv while on her laptop using facebook or whatever shes up too.
I often thought affair but i have never found anything that may constitute proof other than how she behaves.

for me a night usually involves a few beers and guitar practice. usually in my room out of the way.
sometimes i will watch tv ... and i have made time to watch some things with her.

I did give up drinking for about 4 months. there was no change. i kind of gave in after starting to drink alcohol free beer but it was cheaper to buy normal beer.



CuddleBug said:


> I totally sympathize about her accident and the pain it must cause her. But you can still give her oral and have her use a small vib at the same time.....mind blowing orgasm for her, on her back, relaxed.
> 
> Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz and compare the results. You both might be totally surprised at each others true needs.
> 
> ...


we tried experimenting briefly with vibs etc but they have been shelved a long time.
when i met her she already had 2 - 1 being a rabit.

you may be right about her being too comfy.
but wieght is not an issue weve both lost about 4 st each


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Mark123 said:


> as much as it pains me to admit. the signs definitely point in that direction.
> 
> I was driving when in the crash but not my fault . someone ran into the back of us.
> 
> im 41 shes 40.


She's going to have subconscious resentment toward you over the accident (she would deny that), even though the other guy was the idiot. It's just the way things work.

You're still young and can move on if necessary. However, your T levels and muscle mass have been dropping slowly since about age 25. You can fix that.



Mark123 said:


> so very similar. as time goes on we do seem to have less and less in common.
> for her a night is to watch tv while on her laptop using facebook or whatever shes up too.
> I often thought affair but i have never found anything that may constitute proof other than how she behaves.


It's very common for women to lose sexual attraction for the H, but they don't really become completely indifferent without some outside help, usually from a male. 



Mark123 said:


> for me a night usually involves a few beers and guitar practice. usually in my room out of the way.
> sometimes i will watch tv ... and i have made time to watch some things with her.


While I do love beer, it is basically a negative. Nothing more than liquid bread and it's basically impossible to get a female lubricating physique when having more than a couple of beers a week.

How often do you perform in public? Solo or band?



Mark123 said:


> I did give up drinking for about 4 months. there was no change. i kind of gave in after starting to drink alcohol free beer but it was cheaper to buy normal beer.


It's not the alcohol you're trying to avoid (mostly) it's the grain.



Mark123 said:


> we tried experimenting briefly with vibs etc but they have been shelved a long time.
> when i met her she already had 2 - 1 being a rabit.
> 
> you may be right about her being too comfy.
> but wieght is not an issue weve both lost about 4 st each


Very impressive weight loss. Very impressive. How did you do it?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You're too young to have little and/or bad sex for the rest of your life. Read MMSLP or other books on sex problems in marriage, get her into MC with you - DO something, in other words. Akso, get to the source of both your medical problems and treat them as best you can. If any of this works, great! If not, then it could be time to trade up.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

The sex issue HAS to be addressed or you will slog along for years and years miserable and making no progress -- I was in a bad sex marriage for 20 years, finally got out.

Drag her into a counselor who can help you two communicate about this issue. Tell her this is non-negotiable. She either commits to counseling and improving your sex life and marriage or it's time for you to pack up, move along.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

You are both wrecked by your choices in life.

Choose different from now on.

Your life will change. Do not accept her current lifestyle and behavior. Do not accept your current lifestyle for your self.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I have to agree that knowing someone was choosing to drink beer over sleep with me wouldn't make me feel loved, confident, sexy and wanted- which are all things I need to be open and comfortable during sex. Even you laying there saying "in a minute" and just stopping after initiating would make me feel like crap. If you want her to be more open she needs to be confident in you and herself and these kinds of things don't help. 

FTR -I also do not want to have sex after he drinks and have had the issue where I felt second.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Mark can the two of you spoon and have sex? You mentioned a hip injury to your wife, is it both hips or one? Spooning would also be easier on your injured wrist. Does she give you oral? She could kneel down by the edge of the bed or lay on her back with her head hanging off the edge of the bed. 

Does she need to change pain meds? I mean if she is resisting sex because of pain maybe seeing a pain management doc could help?:scratchhead:


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

He said he stopped drinking for 4 months and it didn't change the sex.

As with many spouses, it's nothing but a convenient excuse to not have sex.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You're right, it could be an excuse. But if she's _not _lying about the beer there could be feelings of rejection on her end as well which take time and effort to solve. Just because the sex didn't become more adventurous in those 4 months doesn't mean the issue didn't start with the beer. Doesn't mean it did, but it's at least worth looking into IMO.

Switching to non-alcoholic beer also wouldn't be much of a help if it's the smell or taste (kissing) that she has a problem with. 
Having BTDT, I'd often been so sick of the beer that even the smell of it or the sound of a can opening made me angry.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Mark123 said:


> so very similar. as time goes on we do seem to have less and less in common.
> for her a night is to watch tv while on her laptop using facebook or whatever shes up too.
> I often thought affair but i have never found anything that may constitute proof other than how she behaves.
> 
> ...


Was this always the way it was or did life turn into this. Either way, this is the biggest issue screwing up your intimacy. You don't spend a lot of time together. That has to change before you can expect her to reconnect with you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How much time a week do the two of you spend doing date-like things together, just the two of you?

It's an important question.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I have to agree that knowing someone was choosing to drink beer over sleep with me wouldn't make me feel loved, confident, sexy and wanted- which are all things I need to be open and comfortable during sex. Even you laying there saying "in a minute" and just stopping after initiating would make me feel like crap. If you want her to be more open she needs to be confident in you and herself and these kinds of things don't help.
> 
> FTR -I also do not want to have sex after he drinks and have had the issue where I felt second.


As I mentioned earlier, there is drink and drink. 2 x 330ml bottles of beer a night is not exactly going to get you pissed as a fart. Infact it probably wont have any effect atall.

Which came first? Did his drinking stop the sex or did the lack of sex cause the drinking? Chicken/egg.

He also said he stopped drinking for 4 months yet there was no response from his wife.

His wife, just as mine used to, will think of any excuse not to have sex or to even face up to the problem.
'You'rs always drunk'....'Your breath smells'....'Your c0ck smells'..'I have a headache'...'The sheets are fresh'....'My foreskin is all red'...GOTCHA! 

I don't give a flying fcuk anymore. I've heard all the excuses.

If the OP doesn't address this issue with his wife all it will do is lead to resentment and bitterness.

I should have bailed out years ago but I didnt have the balls. Now I am stuck...atleast until the children (who mean everything to me) have flown the nest.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Thank you all for your input.
there have been a lot of questions and a great deal of help.
i will try to answer as many as i can. my time actually alone is limited and i run a high risk of getting busted on here. that may actually be part of the problem we don't spend a lot of time actually apart so to speak. if she hears me typing she will usually investigate. 
. you all have given me a great deal of food for thought.

the weight loss we did separately my wife attended slimming world and followed that path.
as for me a mixture of slim fast shake, slimming world meals and i swam every day.

As i said we do spend a lot of time together . even work together its kind of weird ( but yet the evenings we spend apart as we have so little in common). we are in the same house perhaps 95% of the time. However i do try and make time for me now (something new i didnt before) last year i took up windsurfing and also took on the restoration of an old sailing dinghy (shelved at the mo i really can't find a club that id be happy for the boat to live).
this year i have started night school and do spend a lot of time with my guitars hopefully one day i will be good enough to join a band.
as for time together (just us) we do usually go out for a meal once a week and we go out for walks a lot.
only this weekend we did 14 miles along the coast.
i have pretty much 2 trains of thought here. both prompted by peoples comments.

the first being -hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. seeing reactions to me walking out on sex and yes after partly initiating it. not easy for a man trust me but i am feeling that indifferent towards it. could it be that this was all part of the plan. she has not mentioned it once her attitude towards me has not changed. in fact that day she washed polished and hoovered my car (she's never done that) i was asked prior if i wanted to do the cars with her but i have reasons. had it been the other way round. had she have initiated with me then turned round and said nah i can't do it or in a minute and then never bothered. id at least want to know why.
i certainly wouldn't be happy. there definitely would be nothing done around the house. theres a part of me that thinks could this actually have been part of the plan. spoon feed me sub par sex in the hopes i will get fed up of it and cut that part out of my life. pretty much like i am doing. really sounds quite sinister and i hope she couldn't be so premeditated and manipulating.

the other option 
ive slipped back into being mr nice guy again.
on our 14 mile walk along the beach she got her feet wet and started to get blisters. i took my socks off and gave them to her. her blisters no worse thankfully but i ended up with 1 each side of my big toes the size of my big toes. hence the reason for declining washing the cars i really didn't want to get them wet infected of worse. i know an excuse but the cars not so bad really.
i have noticed more and more she will challenge me without any thought for my feelings, where as i am usually very tactful and often take her feelings into account. after the weekend i have started to stand up for myself a lot more. so there has been an little change.
an example
the last time the dishwasher did the pots they were gross covered in bits. the filter was quite clogged. i thought she would have cleaned it. 
we had a little discussion regarding this but she didn't know there was a filter as it usually me that sorts these things. well after cleaning it and i was going to start the machine. she stopped me - then the look i get . your not going to start it now are you. in an hour or so there will be the lunch pots. usually i will back down and it would be yeah your right. however I'm not really feeling that way inclined. as i explained better to test the machine now to see if its working than wait add more pots and it still not work.
i know really petty and a poor example neither of us right or wrong really. it does seem like everything is a battle and i can guarantee if i say something she will take the opposite side.
another was i suggested hooking the trailer up and going away for the weekend. her first reply was yeah but when i suggested that last month but you were to busy with your guitar. (i had taken on a 60 day challenge where i play everyday). plus she was complaining about money a lot so i thought we were poor.
the next was we are taking the dog aren't we. well i did want to maybe spend some time just me and her to see if things may be fixable.
in the end i got to the point really why did i suggest it. why the point scoring and why not be happy to go away if she thinks things are bad between us. surely shed be happy to get away.

there are a lot of things going through my mind. on one level she seems happy and like she has the resolution she wants. she has the relationship she wants. the companionship, we do still talk as normal we don't argue and even kiss as normal (except without any passion)
i do hope that this is all down to she doesn't actually care for sex.
after reading the forum lots especially the phrase "there was cheese before the trap" i iike that a lot and it does feel like so true. do i just settle in and take the ride put sex down to something pointless. who's to say that i go through divorce meet someone else then 3 years down the line .. it turns out it was me.
then theres the other thought. she is in an emotional affair and sometime later she realises she does like sex just with someone else and I've just been taken for a sucker.

apologies if i have droned on. hopefully there may be some clues. yes i could ask her and i probably need to but i really would rather be a little better prepared if she's going to turn round and ask me to leave. like i have no money so i may get answers but i would be homeless.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Mark...to the outside world she/you appear to have it all!

I bet she tells all her friends what a great guy you are and how lucky she is to have you...that you have a great marriage and she has 'arrived'....

Nice house, gym membership, long walks with her husband, 2 cars, trailer, 2.2 children, family dog (golden retriever?).

The 'Golden' family...the envy of all her friends....but in reality behind closed doors everything is fcuked up.....


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

...for alot of women its all about how people see them. many would rather be with a sh!t of a husband who had lots of money, nice cars, nice house, international holidays etc than be with a loving, devoted down to earth husband but who didnt have two pennies to rub together...

I said 'alot'...not ALL...so ladies please dont hang/draw and quarter me!


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

askari said:


> Mark...to the outside world she/you appear to have it all!
> 
> I bet she tells all her friends what a great guy you are and how lucky she is to have you...that you have a great marriage and she has 'arrived'....
> 
> ...


it really would seem that way. and im sure to an extent you are right. what other people think is important to her.
im sure to the outside world everything does look great. the only person she actually tells how she feels about me is her mum who weirdly totally hates me.
our cars cost a fortune to run its pointless having 2 but she doesnt let me drive hers and it doesnt have a tow bar. we arent the wealthiest of people we know by a long shot though.
the dog is her baby. a poodle cross . golden in colour though.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

happy as a clam said:


> The sex issue HAS to be addressed or you will slog along for years and years miserable and making no progress -- I was in a bad sex marriage for 20 years, finally got out.
> 
> Drag her into a counselor who can help you two communicate about this issue. Tell her this is non-negotiable. She either commits to counseling and improving your sex life and marriage or it's time for you to pack up, move along.


Lack of sex isn't the problem. It's a symptom of something else going wrong and her losing interest in him.

Yes, get to a counselor. If she won't go, go alone and let her know you are going because you are serious about finding a solution. You will learn (a) how to live with what you have, (b) ways to change what you have or (c) find the strength to leave what you have,


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Mark123 said:


> Thank you all for your input.
> there have been a lot of questions and a great deal of help.
> i will try to answer as many as i can. my time actually alone is limited and i run a high risk of getting busted on here. that may actually be part of the problem we don't spend a lot of time actually apart so to speak. if she hears me typing she will usually investigate.
> . you all have given me a great deal of food for thought.
> ...



You're making yourself crazy trying to dissect her motivations, when it's very possible there IS no motivation. Don't go down that path. 

This is something that can ONLY be solved by direct communication with her. She may resist the communication (probably will, in fact) but you just have to make her understand that YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH YOUR MARRIAGE and insist that things get worked out, one way or the other. Once that's crystal clear, she will either agree to work with you, or she won't. Either way, you won't spend any more time trying to mind-read her.

Also, I'm curious about why you're hesitant to let her see you posting on here? If she DID read what you'd posted, do you think that would result in a negative reaction? Assuming what you've posted are your true feelings, she's going to need to hear it at some point anyway.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Fozzy your totally right.
I would drive myself nuts trying to figure things out.

she once found an e-mail from this site. she was not happy about airing our private life on a web site.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Mark - get yourself a 'secret' e-mail address but make sure you log out properly each time.

Having a 'private' email address is not dishonest. It only becomes 'dishonest' if you use it to hide something like an affair etc.

I have one...I use it if I want to chat with my male friends...talk about man stuff...whinge about our wives, talk about BHP and torque etc. 

We ALL have the right to a certain degree of privacy. 
I will not go into my wifes bag/purse. Its hers and its private to her. For me it is simple respect.
Sadly my wife will go into my wallet or into my briefcase. She's not 'looking' for any evidence of anything (because there is nothing to find), she just thinks she has the right as my wife to go through my personal things. I think it is completely disrespectful.

Hence my 'secret' email address.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

askari said:


> Mark - get yourself a 'secret' e-mail address but make sure you log out properly each time.
> 
> Having a 'private' email address is not dishonest. It only becomes 'dishonest' if you use it to hide something like an affair etc.
> 
> ...


thats good advice
Its funny how that works. If I was to get caught going through her stuff, id be in a lot of trouble. I generally dont bother these days . Shes way too discrete, I wouldnt find anything.
as for her an my stuff its a given right. Usually twisted to she was doing me a favor by going through my phone.

its funny how things have turned out. Im not sure im bothered how thngs play out.
we have been living as seperate people for a long time. Except with sex on average 4 times a month and me making daily compromises. 
Well I intend to live as 2 seperate people but with no sex or compromise. 
If she wants to participate in the marriage she can but it will be fully not just the sham weve been used to.
We are going away this weekend. She has agreed to come. So it will be interesting.

fhgzhen . Yep I did read the mmslp . It worked for a while but then her strategies changed and I settled back down to being easier.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Life without sex is life not worth living.

Why marry a loving wifee that doesn't like or want sex and doesn't communicate to you her needs?

You don't marry a friend or room mate, You marry a loving, wild and sexual wifee.

Your wifee is to take care of your needs (sexual) as her own and you are to do the same for her. If she knows you love sex, need sex and she still doesn't want it, she is either having an affair, using toys on herself or for some reason, doesn't find you hot anymore or the old bait and switch. Sex to get you, then later on, little to no sex.

Raising kids will drain a lady, making her tired and not in the mood as much. It's like a job. Menopause or pre menopause will do this as well for a lot of ladies, their sex drives drop off. Maybe unwanted weight gain for the both of you? Many things...

Wish you the best man.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Life without sex is life not worth living.
> 
> Why marry a loving wifee that doesn't like or want sex and doesn't communicate to you her needs?
> 
> ...


It's a test to see when you will take care of yourself... And i don't mean masterbation either, I mean when you will find someone who lusts after you and wants you sexually.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

treyvion said:


> It's a test to see when you will take care of yourself... And i don't mean masterbation either, I mean when you will find someone who lusts after you and wants you sexually.


its funny you should mention that her previous husband must have failed that test lol as him having an affair was the reason for the divorce.
just a bit of an update. i got suckerd things seemed to get a lot better between us. we went away. we had sex twice and her attitudes back to as it was.

me i pretty much give in. ive cut the beer 3 cans in the last week  last night caved in but they were baby cans. i am focussing a lot on losing weight. windsurfing hopefully this sunday. back swimming and eating very healthily have dropped 6lbs in the past 10 days.

whatever will be, will be. im not gonna get suckered again


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Well the best laid plans of mice and men.... its funny how things turn out. Why do we crave the things we cant have.
When is enough , enough.
I do think about this a lot. I pretty much have a very good life. There's only a couple of things missing, a feeling of being loved and wanted.
I wouldnt say I worked on things from the mmslp but things did improve for a while.
but they say things happen for a reason. Well 3 weeks before our first big holiday ive fallen while fixing the caravan and broken my elbow.
5 days in a cast in total its now off and im really trying to regain strengh but yet being carful not to stress it too much.
now the main reason. I dont want to let her down as we would have to cancel the holiday.
dont I feel like a sap. 
Well it really has been an eye opener and if some other men might take something from this it would be cool.
even if I do platt fog and fix myself in time to drive. It will be nothing short of what she expects. I shouldn't have been daft or fragile enough to hurt myself in the first place.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Mark123 said:


> Well the best laid plans of mice and men.... its funny how things turn out. Why do we crave the things we cant have.
> When is enough , enough.
> I do think about this a lot. I pretty much have a very good life. There's only a couple of things missing, a feeling of being loved and wanted.
> I wouldnt say I worked on things from the mmslp but things did improve for a while.
> ...


Your still sexless?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

A: Its a life without sex until either:

1. You wife wants sex (don't hold your breath)
2. Feels like she wronged you and forces herself to have sex
3. You get sex elsewhwere


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Not exactly sexless. Just might as well be , she puts more effort and emotion into washing the pots.

@tryingtofigureitout 
point number
2) got that the other night, I diddnt realise untill it was too late. 
We were laid in bed and I thought id try my luck. I got totally rejected, snap shut legs. So I rolled over admitedly in a bit of a mood.
ultimatly not really too bothered I had drank a couple of beers and did still have my full arm in cast.
next thing I knew there was an arm around me. As much as I was feeling miffed it felt pretty good. Things progressed. She even ended up on top that hasnt happened in must be 5 years.
Later she told me that she was thinking I thiught she must have a right heartless bitc .

3) theres no chance of me cheating, I wouldnt put my good life in jeopardy. Sometimes it feels like ive sold my soul.. I can want for very little. I just cant have the main thing I want. 
A rubbish way too be, but I do have feelings for her. 

You never know, she might cheat. But I doubt that I really do think she has her life exacty how she wants it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Mark123 said:


> Not exactly sexless. Just might as well be , she puts more effort and emotion into washing the pots.
> 
> @tryingtofigureitout
> point number
> ...


I really doubt women in these situations enjoy their life and WANT to make it better but CANNOT.... I envision a scenario where you liked something now you are repulsed by it. What the problem is though that's where it ends...I don't think they do NEARLY enough to work the issue and come up with alternatives or levels of ramping up affection in other ways and attempting sex in spite of the repulsion.

That is I think in the female makeup they *avoid hard things*.... when its hard they tend to not want to do it. Not saying they are lazy but I see it all the time, females tend to do what they like or are good at and when its hard like learning a difficult math problem, or figuring out the remote they give up. So asking them to figure out why the feel repulsed by sex is too hard and they avoid it.

This is not me bashing women again its stating fact. Women are great at many things including in many ways superior to men. But when it comes to doing something about their marriages they tend to fail, not assess and drag their feet.... divorces are mostly started by women because marriage is too hard. And sexless marriage is usually because the women chose it or accepts it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Do you know if your wife masturbates or looks at porn? I'm wondering if she has a sex drive and doesn't want you much or if she doesn't have one. How into porn are you? Any chance your porn use bothers her?

And your analysis of her reaction after you walked away from sex is very much from a man's point of view. A woman will assume she doesn't do it for you and shut down. That may have nothing to do with anything but just wanted to throw it out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I really doubt women in these situations enjoy their life and WANT to make it better but CANNOT.... I envision a scenario where you liked something now you are repulsed by it. What the problem is though that's where it ends...I don't think they do NEARLY enough to work the issue and come up with alternatives or levels of ramping up affection in other ways and attempting sex in spite of the repulsion.
> 
> That is I think in the female makeup they *avoid hard things*.... when its hard they tend to not want to do it. Not saying they are lazy but I see it all the time, females tend to do what they like or are good at and when its hard like learning a difficult math problem, or figuring out the remote they give up. So asking them to figure out why the feel repulsed by sex is too hard and they avoid it.
> 
> This is not me bashing women again its stating fact. Women are great at many things including in many ways superior to men. But when it comes to doing something about their marriages they tend to fail, not assess and drag their feet.... divorces are mostly started by women because marriage is too hard. And sexless marriage is usually because the women chose it or accepts it.


Your assertion of fact is interesting. That may be your experience but I have known men like this, and as an actuary with a BS in physics I can assure you that I think about how to solve complicated problems all the time.

Women can and do solve plenty of problems, but where they fail is in thinking enough about sexual attraction when choosing a partner. We are very much raised to look for a guy that will be a good hb, provider, and father but not necessarily one we're attracted to. Men, in the other hand, think too much about attraction at the expense of everything else, but at least they're honest about the need for it. I'd guess that the issue here is that she's not that attracted to him, and this can't be fixed which is why she ignores it. If you had a wife you just weren't attracted to exactly how would you fix it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Can't help myself, have to chime in here as I read through your whole thread:
1) Do NOT cheat -- you've sold your soul enough already; at least you can say you still have your honor. That is just lousy, lousy advice and ALWAYS a bad idea. Period. Furthermore, I'd argue that the advice to start building secrets (email accounts etc.) is also lousy advice if you really want a better marriage. 
2) Do NOT assume she'd not cheat. My stbx wanted for nothing, didn't have to work, beach club membership, nice town, nice home, the whole deal. I didn't insist on a better sex life, was a FNG, and she went out and found herself someone that excited her. 
3) Your issue isn't a lack of sex. As others have pointed out, it's really a lack of communication, leading to a lack of connection, leading to a lack of sex. Start with the first, proceed to the second, then get the third 'naturally' is my advice. If you are at the point of giving up (BAD idea), I'd even propose putting it all on the table, STOPPING any sexual activity while you re-commit to communicating and connecting, until you both "feel it" and/or "need it"... but talking about WHY is of utmost important.
4) If you can seriously be ok with choosing beer over sex, then lack of sex REALLY isn't your issue, admit it. It's a passive-aggressive thing, and it points to what is really wrong with your marriage.
5) Man up on your portion of the issue, but accept nothing less than her owning her 50%...and get agreement to admit there's an issue, a commitment to work on it jointly, and consensus on talking!! 
6) You are headed for a very poor outcome -- resentment long term ( can either of you really accept this for the next 40-50 years?), D, an affair, and/or a sexless marriage. GET yourselves to a counselor, drag her physically if you must, but make it clear you do not accept this for either of you. That alpha approach alone is something to start from...

You both are throwing away something very precious, and it should make you angry... it makes me angry that you don't see it.

Good luck.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

2xloser
1) as much as there is temptation to cheat... I really wouldnt. I see no point. Her ex hubby took that path. Im not going to give her yet another scape goat.
2) some times I wish she would and I spent a long time thinking she was. I could never find a shred of evidence.
3) I would agree to an extent, we dont comunicate. She either dosent think there is a problem or doesnt care. 
4) I can see your point ...sort of... and it reared its head tonight ... the conversation sort of went... her I fancy a nice shower, de fuzz ect then relaxing evening... then shes .. what are your plans ... me ill go the same..then perhaps whe could spend some quality time.and as broken as we are make love... then straight away ... well that depends if your going to drink or not. 
She doesnt care about feelings etc... its like these are my terms.. many a time we have had a discussion nad I will try and be tactful.. she will just take the knife and dig it straight in.


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## Mark123 (Oct 13, 2009)

Tonight was quite liberating to be honest... we went to the pub and both had a few beers.
the conversation went... when I was having my arm put in cast ... (lots of pain) I had been offered pain releif but I will only take paracetamol.well I had to put my arm into a certain possition. Apparently I was wimpering with the pain. She thought it was pathetic. Apparently I should try pushing a child through a vagina... she did admit thought that there was a moment when it felt all real and I had actually broke something.
well tomorrow we going away ... I will drive. She admits she would be tempted to drive but doesn't have anything to prove and doesnt want to drive so wont.
I really do wonder... why ..
it kills me her lack of empathy... 8 days on from a fractured elbow and I am going to drive because she doesnt want too...
things happen for a reason..


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Attraction is not the issue after 20-30 years of marriage. I'm not talking Kris Jenner hooking up with the Hunchback of Notre Dame but your typical decent shape 50's couple should have something to offer each other in the physical attraction department.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

OK Mark, I just read your other 2 threads from years ago, when you first joined TAM (and shamefully nobody seems to have responded to your original cry for help), and 2 years ago... when you seemed more sure there were big troubles ahead.

And here you are.

WTF dude? What is it you want? And when are you going to stand up for it, and take it? 

You have got serious, serious work to do about manning up. Read, read, read about the attractiveness of an Alpha male. I'm not saying go beat her and dominate her, but you need a serious 180. Seriously. She does not respect you, nor really even want you, does not see you as an equal nor really even an attractive man to her. Obligatory sex to shut you up is no way to live your life -- and you know it, or you wouldn't be here asking these questions. If that is the life you want, continue to do nothing... 

She disrespects you as a man, as a father, as a lover, and as a husband. Bad, bad problem BUT even worse is you tolerate it. You are literally afraid of her, afraid of standing up for yourself, other than bringing up a topic nicely that she promptly shuts down or totally dismisses. And you tolerate it, go drink your 2-3 beers just to get back at her and show her you won't be told what to do, and go play your guitar.

Serious question: "Why?" 

Answer that realistically and unemotionally, and I am guessing you will know what to do about it.

I'm still trying to figure out why you married her in the first place, but that's neither here nor there. What's really the question is why you do nothing remotely Alpha about it, incouding why you've stayed this long. 

I'm guessing it's either related to your joint job (you guys run or own a business or something?), and/or you've got serious self-esteem issues.

Mark I am not trying to be an a**hole, I am trying to shake you awake so that you see what is right in front of you for what it actually is, and choose to do something about it. Frankly I'd rather be alone than be in a marriage like you have described, but that's me. You gotta decide what you want, and assuming what you want is something different than what you have now, then make a decision to do something about it. If that is harsh and comes across nasty, I apologize but dammit man you gotta wake up and look in the mirror. You either like what you've got enough to live with it, or you have got to get aggressive about changing it, whatever that requires. Being afraid to upset the apple cart ain't nearly cutting it. 

Trust me, I was a FNG. Never, ever again.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> OK Mark, I just read your other 2 threads from years ago, when you first joined TAM (and shamefully nobody seems to have responded to your original cry for help), and 2 years ago... when you seemed more sure there were big troubles ahead.
> 
> And here you are.
> 
> ...


And then when you do that for 6-120 months and nothing changes don't be surprised.

OP it really doesn't matter what you do.

Things will change (possibly) when you wife decides to change...that happens irregardless of what you do.

She is the deviant not wanting sex with you its her issue...she has deep internal issues and refuses to deal with them


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And then when you do that for 6-12 months and nothing changes don't be surprised.
> 
> OP it really doesn't matter what you do.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with ^this^!!
But (re-)taking control of one's life and doing *something* to claim your position as a man is at least a beginning.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Totally agree with ^this^!!
> But (re-)taking control of one's life and doing *something* to claim your position as a man is at least a beginning.


and not a cure possibly a slight placebo effect


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

If he lets it sit at that, yes i agree.
If he uses it to get himself started, does The 180, and pushes for a change one way or the other, then I disagree.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> If he lets it sit at that, yes i agree.
> If he uses it to get himself started, does The 180, and pushes for a change one way or the other, then I disagree.


What planet are you on...how many successes have you seen here from that?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> and not a cure possibly a slight placebo effect


No, taking control of your life WILL cure some things which were controlled by the outside. None of us 100% controls our life, but you can do better. Pineing for a sexless wife situation is stupid.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> What planet are you on...how many successes have you seen here from that?


If your talking about 180ing while trying to get "her" back... Usually doesn't work. Wasn't your fault or lack that made her leave usually, just her greed.

But yes, when you drop them you should focus on yourself and that will up your chance of success in the world. Keep in mind it takes a while, so give it a few years.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> What planet are you on...how many successes have you seen here from that?


Well I'm guessing we're not defining success the same way. I'm suggesting his biggest issue is with himself first, not really with 'winning' his wife back.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Well I'm guessing we're not defining success the same way. I'm suggesting his biggest issue is with himself first, not really with 'winning' his wife back.


There is where you are wrong, a guy DOES NOT NEED TO CHANGE he doesn't NEED TO BECOME SOMEONE ELSE its on HIS WIFE its* HER DEAL*!

This man up stuff is hocus pocus snakeoil... only success stories are either coersion (actual seperation/divorce) or a magical lightbulb going off in the woman's head (irrespective of what the husband does YEARS later)

There is no Plan, no cure...society to blame. Sexlessness is an epidemic!

Happy 4th


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> There is where you are wrong, a guy DOES NOT NEED TO CHANGE he doesn't NEED TO BECOME SOMEONE ELSE its on HIS WIFE its* HER DEAL*!
> 
> This man up stuff is hocus pocus snakeoil... only success stories are either coersion (actual seperation/divorce) or a magical lightbulb going off in the woman's head (irrespective of what the husband does YEARS later)
> 
> ...


LOL, Happy Independence Day 

Again, we're defining success differently. You're suggesting success is her willingly giving him sex. I'm defining success as him not rolling over and just accepting the situation he is unhappy with, which likely ends with him leaving. BUT, I am all for trying to work it out first before just up and leaving. 

And that doesn't make me (or you) wrong, just two differing pieces of input for the OP.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> LOL, Happy Independence Day
> 
> Again, we're defining success differently. You're suggesting success is her willingly giving him sex. I'm defining success as him not rolling over and just accepting the situation he is unhappy with, which likely ends with him leaving. BUT, I am all for trying to work it out first before just up and leaving.
> 
> And that doesn't make me (or you) wrong, just two differing pieces of input for the OP.


Well then I'm a success by your assessment..woo hoo


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> OK Mark, I just read your other 2 threads from years ago, when you first joined TAM (and shamefully nobody seems to have responded to your original cry for help),


Off topic, but you brought this up.

Some times threads move off the first page or two very quickly so they don't get a response. 

The OP on theses threads need to do something to move their thread to the top again. ... reposting the thread (and deleting the older one) or posting more info on their own thread will do this.

If a person really wants some support they have to keep their thread on top and relevant.

I will often search forward several pages for thread with no or very few replies and post just to move them back to the front of the line. But most people do not do this, they stay on the first page or two.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Hope I didn't offend, EleGirl -- it certainly was not my intent. TAM has been so good for so many people, me included. It was only to recognize that the OP's first message years ago was not addressed-- by the forum, and by him.

But you raise a good point!


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