# Reconciling with fiancée



## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I was with my fiancée for 3 years and we have been separated for 2 months. Our engagement was pathetically short, less than a week before we separated. Our engagement didn't end due to anything she or I did in the present, it ended over something that occurred in her past that she hid from me and I discovered through a 3rd party. That 3rd party being her long term XBF that she was with for IDK 8-9 years. What she did is something that I have no respect for, and while it's hard to process the lying was worse. In the duration of her relationship with her XBF they opened the relationship to a couple dozen males and she willingly participated in frequent group sex. She presented herself as a woman who had sexual relations with a small handful of men and it was quite the misrepresentation. I'm not a man who has had sex with a large array of women. By my own decision I have only had any sort of intimacy with 5 women. That is how I was raised and where my beliefs lie, intimacy isn't something to hand out to anyone. It was a massive shock to have that information thrown at me, unsuspected. There was visual evidence to go along with it and though I tried not to look at it I was unsuccessful. Now, it is something that I cannot erase from my mind. Knowing your partner has been with other men is one game, having the visual of 4 blokes stuffed inside her and her enjoying it is another. She has been understanding and gracious during this time. She is incredibly hurt and is trying to heal while staying open to reconciliation. 

She has a young child and unfortunately with the XBF mentioned above. This fellow is an idiot. There is a tree stump in a Louisiana swamp with a higher IQ than he has. He is the legal father of the child though he has no role in the child's life. I have always been close with the child and my ex has selflessly allowed me to continue that with visits. Walking away from that child would feel no different than any other present father walking away from his child. 

I have been seeing new women and while I'm enjoying my time with them I cannot get my ex off my mind and have not been able to take things further with them. She is always lingering on the back of my mind. I don't talk to her and I don't see her aside from the few minutes it takes to pick up and drop off her child. Normally I would say our child but that could get confusing here. When I do see her nearly every time she is an emotional disaster. I make attempts to ignore it, be emotionless and do the exchange because I don't want to lead her on. I have been trying to move on and when we have been forced to be around each other for longer periods there is a lot of hot and cold behaviours occurring on my end. I know that confuses her. 

Our relationship wasn't perfect but it was close. The parts of our relationship that were a bit harder were not deal breakers, at least not to me. What I learned about her shook up the relationship and eventually ended it, but I cannot get her off my mind and the desire to reconcile. 

Is this a bad idea? Does it ever work out? The last thing that I want is to hurt her more. I don't want to try to reconcile just to walk again in a month or two.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OP Your fiancé was on love shack right.? It has to be the same story. Anyways we heard her side of it. Now that we get to hear your side of it. I really feel for you. I don't know how or what to say to you that would help you deal with it. I mean in reality she's is human you should give her a second chance right. It's not like she did it to you. Will it's going to Drive you nuts thinking about it all the time. Which will be taxing on the relationship.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I have no idea, however I doubt it. She has never been the type to share information with strangers, or even people who are not strangers. 

That is a predicament. I would like to attempt to reconcile and have a happy relationship again, however I don't know if that's even possible. I don't want to get her hopes up to crush them again when I am not able to stick with it. Trust would also be problematic, I imagine on her end as well. It's not something that I can even talk to her about without getting her hopes up. If she sees a glimpse of hope, or even if she doesn't, she runs with it and hopes that I'm changing my mind. I try to remain as emotionless as possible around her, which in turn causes her to believe I'm not interested at all. Hurting her is the last thing that I want.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

What is the loveshack post?

Here is the thing, for both your benefits make sure you can get over this before you recommit, and I mean like call off the marriage and date a year or so because you have no idea yet. 

First off you have the fact that this was a pretty big lie of admission, especially when you are the kind that values sex as very personal monogamous the way you do. She probably knew that and basically lied about her past. So she was prepared to hid a pretty big part of her life from you basically forever because she knew you would object to it. I like people who live their lives openly with no big secrets like this, blemishes and all, I don't trust people who are good at lying. It becomes a hard habit to break. The situation you are in now is basically one of the reasons why you don't do that. 

Also part of dating is finding out if you are compatible, a big part of that is making sure you feel the same way about sex. It goes deeper even then your relationship it will impact what you teach your children and so forth so it is a VERY BIG deal. You have every right to feel the way you do. Many people would feel this way. Some don't. However worse is she basically stole your ability to do that. Not a good sign, not a sign of character. Also not a good way to build a healthy relationship when it comes to sexual compatibility. Relationships require deep levels of trust and vulnerability, she hasn't shown that, in fact she did the opposite in a very serious way. 

One of the other reasons you better be really sure you are over this is because of the pictures, Sounds like they may be on the internet which means they are always gong to be on the internet unfortunately, so they will always be a part of her life at least. Sadly you can probably expect them to show up once in a while. Again something to think about. When they show up it is not fair to her that you go through this all over again. If he just sent them to you I hope she called the authorities, and again from the sound of him I bet that are on the internet. This is the unfortunate world we live in today. Big "mistakes" if that's what she thinks it is, are sometime out there in the world for everyone to see forever. This is specifically true when it comes to sexual ones. 

If you commit to her again you can't hold this over her, and if you can't get over it then just move on. Everyone is entitled to deal breakers. You are the ones who have to live with it. You may not be as compatible as you thought you were. Plus the lying thing is not a good basis to start a relationship. She also deserves a man who doesn't care, and there are plenty of men will have the kind of feeling about sex and sexual history where they don't. This doesn't sound like you. 

If I was talking to your GF I would tell her next time she should just put this out there pretty early, for some guys this will be a deal breaker for other not so much. Better to find out early then to waste years, live inauthentically and have happen what happened now. 

My suggestion is to sufficiently detach so that you are not acting out of fear or emotion before you even consider making a decision. That means no seeing each other period. From the sound of it it will probably be good for both of you anyway. Right now the feeling are very raw. If she doesn't wait then it wasn't meant to be. If you can't wait then the same. Sorry that sounds like a sucky situation for both of you.

See post below, if the link I sent is her I change my advice.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> I have no idea, however I doubt it. She has never been the type to share information with strangers, or even people who are not strangers.
> 
> That is a predicament. I would like to attempt to reconcile and have a happy relationship again, however I don't know if that's even possible. I don't want to get her hopes up to crush them again when I am not able to stick with it. Trust would also be problematic, I imagine on her end as well. It's not something that I can even talk to her about without getting her hopes up. If she sees a glimpse of hope, or even if she doesn't, she runs with it and hopes that I'm changing my mind. I try to remain as emotionless as possible around her, which in turn causes her to believe I'm not interested at all. Hurting her is the last thing that I want.


If you are not going to R then it's kind of cruel and self defeating to be around her don't you think?


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Sorry I tried to find it, not really sure how go about searching for that thread, I do not recall the name of the thread or the Original Posters screen name. But I am positive this is the same exact story it is his ex fiancé Who posted. Sorry I could not be more of help.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For me this would be deal breaker. What she did was pretty bad, and her lying about it was also a big red flag. Its a massive deception. Like you I am a one person person, and I could not marry a person who thought it was ok to act that way, having sex with multiple partners at once, or even multiple partners at all. Not the person I would want to be with or have as the parent of my child. 

Cut contact as much as possible is my advise, and also its really soon to be dating again and not really fair to the other ladies when you are not anywhere near over your ex. 

I do feel for the child who is an innocent victim in this, but you also have to think of your future and any child you may have. Could you trust her after this massive lie? Could she been keeping other things from you as well? How would you know? Honesty is so important in a relationship.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

hudson said:


> I was with my fiancée for 3 years and we have been separated for 2 months. Our engagement was pathetically short, less than a week before we separated. Our engagement didn't end due to anything she or I did in the present, it ended over something that occurred in her past that she hid from me and I discovered through a 3rd party. That 3rd party being her long term XBF that she was with for IDK 8-9 years. What she did is something that I have no respect for, and while it's hard to process the lying was worse. In the duration of her relationship with her XBF they opened the relationship to a couple dozen males and she willingly participated in frequent group sex. She presented herself as a woman who had sexual relations with a small handful of men and it was quite the misrepresentation. I'm not a man who has had sex with a large array of women. By my own decision I have only had any sort of intimacy with 5 women. That is how I was raised and where my beliefs lie, intimacy isn't something to hand out to anyone. It was a massive shock to have that information thrown at me, unsuspected. There was visual evidence to go along with it and though I tried not to look at it I was unsuccessful. Now, it is something that I cannot erase from my mind. Knowing your partner has been with other men is one game, having the visual of 4 blokes stuffed inside her and her enjoying it is another. She has been understanding and gracious during this time. She is incredibly hurt and is trying to heal while staying open to reconciliation.
> 
> *She has a young child and unfortunately with the XBF mentioned above. This fellow is an idiot. There is a tree stump in a Louisiana swamp with a higher IQ than he has. He is the legal father of the child though he has no role in the child's life*. I have always been close with the child and my ex has selflessly allowed me to continue that with visits. Walking away from that child would feel no different than any other present father walking away from his child.
> 
> ...


What's that make your X fiancé? She went along with him. 

You'd better take some time away from ALL this before you martyr yourself. If you go back and marry this you have to accept it for what it is 100% permanently.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sparta said:


> Sorry I tried to find it, not really sure how go about searching for that thread, I do not recall the name of the thread or the Original Posters screen name. But I am positive this is the same exact story it is his ex fiancé Who posted. Sorry I could not be more of help.


This it?

Google lets you find anything. 

If it is, man it's sad. I think it is, so I also want to change my advice. If this woman is telling the truth is sound like she was abused from a very young age and taken advantage of by a sick man. Also sounds like this sick man is still trying to abuse her. This changes the story from what sounded like a very adventurous girl in collage who basically kept it quiet, to a sexual abused girl who was pressured into doing things she didn't want by an abusive boyfriend. I get it she didn't tell you. That was her mistake and wrong, but I don't think it was a lie of malice but a lie of shame. Even though the lie was wrong, the motive for the lie was not one of evil. 

OP do you love this girl? If you do then it may be worth fighting your feelings when it comes to her past. Only you know her for who she is now and you know better if she is telling the truth here in this post or not. If you think she is I think you guys should start over. I think you should give her a second chance, but let her know that honesty is needed moving forward, and this is part of the test. I am not saying be cautious, I am say be very cautious but it may be worth it. 

Also you both should see if you can take some legal actions against the ex. What he did is illegal, and he may try to do it again 

One more thing, in a way this ex-boyfriend is abusing you. And you are kind of letting him do it. He wanted to use this thing to destroy a good thing you had in your life. I don't know but if it me, that would make me pissed. I mean F this guy. Why does this garbage get to define who your ex gets to be with and what her worth is. You had a good thing going before this right? He is still manipulating her life and you with it. With out knowing it you kind of let him do it and abuse you too. 

Finally this may all be an elaborate ruse and is so I will be the sucker and play along. If it's not and you and this women are real, you owe it to yourself and her to read everyone of her posts. Post that she had no reason to lie in because she never even told you about them, and from your words here you had no idea. 

It will take counseling but if this is true you love the kid, and you loved her. I say a good man would fight, fight the thoughts, fight the evil ex boyfriend, and fight for what should be his family. Sh!t this story makes me want do drive to Canada and kick the ex's @ss all the way to Mexico. It would also make me want to fight for her because she need for someone to fight for her once in her life. Is that person you OP?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

sokillme said:


> This it?
> 
> Google lets you find anything.
> 
> ...




I didn't read the love shack post but the way he described it I got the same impression. That she was abused and manipulated into doing that.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

People change and what is in the past stays in the past. That is what is supposed to happen. Unfortunately her past is a pretty bad one. Something this big should have been told to you when you two got really serious; like moving in together and then engagement to marry. 

That was her mistake really. If she is not the same woman that did those videos, then you should realize that that part of her past is just that; a bad time in her past. She had more lovers than you had thought she had. Did she tell you at anytime that she had only been with the handful of people you thought she had been with or did she state it?

If she didn't give you any numbers, then she didn't lie to hide this from you. She did it because it was something she felt ashamed of committing before your time with her. Some of us do things that we live to regret, this was probably hers. To her that mistake was just that. A mistake in her life and not relationships with all these other men she had sex with. Whether is was with one at a time or 20. It was a mistake. She paid for it already with the shame she felt for doing it that long ago. If she doesn't have any STDs, can you let it go? Why in the world are you seeing others so soon? If you love her kid like yours and continue to see him, when are you going to let that poor child go if you can't forgive what momma did before your time with her?

If you can't forgive, then let them go.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

READ HER POSTS! It is a lot more then that. She didn't have any lovers, she had a young man predator who could tell she came from a family of abuse, sexual in nature, started dating her at like 13. Basically this guy was grooming her so he could repeatedly rape her and to eventually basically prostituting a very damaged child (her at 18) so he could score drugs. Then after she gets away from all that and starts a new life when he see the engagement photo the ex sends her fiance a video he has saved of the abuse just so he can maintain control. Again if this is real then there is a whole level of sh!t going on here that is just plain evil. It's nothing like we are all assuming. It's amazing she's not dead. She should have told him, but hell from her posts OP said he didn't want to know and didn't care about her past, and I think he was being honest, he didn't care, he just didn't know the level of crap it was. 

It's hard for me to believe it is real because it is so awful. If it is real she need a break, it would be a risk for OP, but the fact that she is still alive basically powered only by the love of her kid says to me this woman is not a bad person. She just had a terrible break being born into an awful situation. I think if two people were fighting for her she may make it. 

OP if you are a musician then you can assume her posts are real because how would I know, and you should read her post with an open mind, knowing again that she wrote them with pure honesty not even wanting you to read them.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Even before I read the linked thread, which broke my heart btw, I thought you were out of line OP.

What your fiance did or didn't do before you even met her, is nothing to do with you.

She was taken advantage of by a ********* and you're now worried that you can't trust her?? Seriously?? SHE should be the one worried about trusting you - look what happens when she's honest with you. You dump her like a piece of garbage when in reality she is the exact same person she was the day before you found out about this.

She's better off without you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> This it?
> 
> Google lets you find anything.
> 
> ...


She stayed with the boyfriend for many years and as an adult she willingly took part in what they did. Not sure how you see this as abuse? For all we know she was even keener than he was and was the driving force behind it. Some women are.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Even before I read the linked thread, which broke my heart btw, I thought you were out of line OP.
> 
> What your fiance did or didn't do before you even met her, is nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


How can you possibly know that she was taken advantage of? She may well have been an equally willing participant in this, and also she wasn't honest, she never told him what she had done. She kept it secret all this time. He found out through another person.She wasnt a little girl being abused, but an adult who willingly went out with this man for a long time and willingly took part in sex with many partners. She could have left him any time. 

Yes it is relevant what we have done in the past, especially if we are going to get married and have children.They should be no sordid secrets in marriage. 
I would wonder what else she was keeping from me in his place.I can understand his position, I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to act that way, and I wouldn't trust a man who had lied about it, and would probably have married me keeping that to himself.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hudson, was your ex a willing participant in all of those activities or did she go along with his needs and wants?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Hudson, was your ex a willing participant in all of those activities or did she go along with his needs and wants?


 I guess most people would say that they just went along with it to make themselves look better in hindsight, but she didn't have to do it, most people would just say no and end the relationship. She stayed with him for a long time despite what they were doing.


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

Why are you picking up and dropping off her kid? You need to break this off clean and walk away. From what you have posted, this is a deal breaker for you. So man up and walk away. 

Some have said that her past doesn't matter, or is none of your business. That is not true!!!! When you take this person as a mate, you also take all their emotional baggage and consequences of past bad behavior. 

She should have been up front with you about her past, but she was not. You had to find out from a third party. That is a major red flag not to marry her. What else will she lie to you about in the future by omission. Walk away, learn from this, and be more careful in the future.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Post #141 is pretty relevant to the whole thing, and quite disturbing. I suggest everyone read it before judging. Then maybe you think she is lying, but if you don't I don't know how you could possibly see this as something other then someone who was very broken by her childhood. OP is probably gone for good at this point which is sad, the whole thing is sad. I really hope it's fake.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

I wish the OP would come back and verify if the LS post is from his GF. Did anyone who is blaming her here actually read her first post? She was NOT a willing adult participant. The ex was forcing himself on her when she was only 12 and sharing her out to other men when she was only 14! Yes she states she was 18 when he made the video but at that point she was probably so broken by the whole situation that she didn't see the point in fighting him. And if she was only with this SOB to get away from her FOO, I shudder to think what her home life must have been like.

OP if this is indeed your GF, I can certainly understand if you can't cope with her past but I do hope you realize what happened to her was child sexual abuse and even rape and NOT consensual adult sex. 

I am horrified by the amount of sl*t shaming going on in that LS thread. I will never understand the "blame the victim" mentality.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Post #141 is pretty relevant to the whole thing, and quite disturbing. I suggest everyone read it before judging. Then maybe you think she is lying, but if you don't I don't know how you could possibly see this as something other then someone who was very broken by her childhood. OP is probably gone for good at this point which is sad, the whole thing is sad. I really hope it's fake.


I read it all and answered according to everything I knew at the time I posted my last post. What I keep reading has not changed what I wrote. He made his choice and it was valid for him. She made her choices and they were valid for her. 

All choices have consequences regardless of how they came to be. It's a sad story, it's an unfair story. It's life. He doesn't deserve her. He needs to set her and her son free of his presence in their lives. It's the humane thing to do IMO. He can't have his cake and eat it too so to speak (cake being the child he states he loves like a son). He can't continue a relationship with HER son because it is detrimental to the child and to the well being of the relationship he needs to have with his mother.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I read it all and answered according to everything I knew at the time I posted my last post. What I keep reading has not changed what I wrote. He made his choice and it was valid for him. She made her choices and they were valid for her.
> 
> All choices have consequences regardless of how they came to be. It's a sad story, it's an unfair story. It's life. He doesn't deserve her. He needs to set her and her son free of his presence in their lives. It's the humane thing to do IMO. He can't have his cake and eat it too so to speak (cake being the child he states he loves like a son). He can't continue a relationship with HER son because it is detrimental to the child and to the well being of the relationship he needs to have with his mother.


I agree if he knows the whole story. Sounds like he is making these choices from a point of ignorance of the facts.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> I agree if he knows the whole story. Sounds like he is making these choices from a point of ignorance of the facts.


We are making a lot of assumptions here. The woman on the other forum may or may not be OP X-fiancee. If she is, he may have already read the story and that hasn't changed what he feels enough to overcome what his head keeps spinning around in it. Will he see it differently later? How much later? Is fence sitting something she wants to do and wait this out while he dates others and entertains his need to continue a relationship with HER boy? Meanwhile, why does he get to cake eat when it comes to HER son if he has already moved on by dating others? In other words, he is not fence sitting, he is moving on. He believes she is waiting for him and is sad and wants to get back together. Well, that's not what she posted. If she is the woman he was going to marry, then she knows he is dating others and has moved on. She wants him all in or he needs to leave her and her son alone. 

He made choices after seeing the video. She is making choices too after knowing he is out there dating others.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> We are making a lot of assumptions here. The woman on the other forum may or may not be OP X-fiancee. If she is, he may have already read the story and that hasn't changed what he feels enough to overcome what his head keeps spinning around in it. Will he see it differently later? How much later? Is fence sitting something she wants to do and wait this out while he dates others and entertains his need to continue a relationship with HER boy? Meanwhile, why does he get to cake eat when it comes to HER son if he has already moved on by dating others? In other words, he is not fence sitting, he is moving on. He believes she is waiting for him and is sad and wants to get back together. Well, that's not what she posted. If she is the woman he was going to marry, then she knows he is dating others and has moved on. She wants him all in or he needs to leave her and her son alone.
> 
> He made choices after seeing the video. She is making choices too after knowing he is out there dating others.


Yeah the situation is messed up, for sure. I think I could get over this due to the circumstances though it would take a lot of work, I don't think I could if this was just her sowing he wild oats so to speak. I understand if he can't though. Sexual abuse is toxic and causes generational destruction.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

If it is the same girl in LS then the XBF was a pedophile who used her.

OP if you didn't take the time to find out the truth then you are not worthy of her. If you knew this and stil behaved the way you did by dumping her, you are a cad who is only concerned about your own ego.

That poor girl probably thinks all men are abusers and users and you have done nothing to prove her wrong.

If the girl is not the same, you must take the time to find out was she a willing participant ( a child cannot be a willing participant) AND have you asked yourself why her XBF gave you the information, I assume it was not because he was worried about you, he had an ulterior motive, think about it CONTROL.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Wow.

I think the bottom line comes down to 2 things:

1. Why did she do this? If she did it because she was weak and manipulated into doing it by her ex and she hates that she did it and didn't enjoy it, then you probably don't have to worry about her repeating that in the future. On the other hand if she did enjoy it and find it exciting or hot or whatever, then there is always the risk of her turning back into that woman.

2. Can you get past it mentally, knowing she did that? I imagine some people could and some couldn't. It would be tragic for both of you to marry if part of you felt she was less than other women because of her past. 

As far as her "lying" - or omitting this past - I don't know... It's always easy to sit behind a keyboard and say what other people SHOULD do, but really, most people have done things they are ashamed of, and most people hide them. And with good reason - they are afraid of being rejected by those who learn the truth. I'm not saying most women have had group sex like this, it's definitely an extreme situation, just saying that I would not consider her a liar or untrustworthy in general because she didn't tell you. She didn't tell you because she was afraid she'd lose you.

And by the way - if that story that someone linked IS her story - and you found out by her ex sending you the videos? Well that does show what a sick, cruel, controlling, f*ck he is. And if she started seeing him when she was only 12? He probably did have her totally mind-screwed.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

aine said:


> I AND have you asked yourself why her XBF gave you the information, I assume it was not because he was worried about you, he had an ulterior motive, think about it CONTROL.


Exactly.

She escaped his clutches and had found happiness and love plus a real father for her son, and he absolutely could not stand that.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I have not viewed the LS post. I may make some points about it from what people are already saying.
But my opinions here at this point is about what the OP has said (I will note when I am referencing LS).

Dear OP. That seems to have happened years ago and that she didn't tell you out of shame. Now most guys do NOT understand women completely, we never will. But we do need to talk to them and understand their actions sometimes. Hell, my wife has done that. Done things she DID NOT want to do, to make me happy - but in reality, I never would have done or do things she doesn't want to. So she was hurting, but didn't want to "lose me" or make me upset. 
I think she met you, after a few dates and liking you, falling in love - knowing HOW you are so black & white on sex - that she couldn't tell you. As you have stated, that sexual number and doing gangbangs were beyond your comfort level.

Think about this. Your path with this women was due to her PAST. Everything that happened before - lead you to her TODAY. 
I think you are being hard on her, and if she has been honest and faithful otherwise - then I think YOU are in the wrong. You had no control of her past.

About the xBF: all of the sudden *HE* springs this on you? He may be dumb - but he gotcha. He planned this when you and her got engaged. People do this kind of crap ALL THE TIME. They want something for themselves and will hurt others. Hell, a crazy woman told my wife lied about ME - which help break us apart last spring. crazy woman also wanted sex with my wife and other strange crap. (LS: seems like he should be in jail)

Either you need to stop seeing the kid (and therefore this woman) AND say you are sorry and won't see her again OR you need to APOLOGIZE and go to couples counseling with her. Sorry, it sucks that the xBF showed you video of sex acts. But view it as watching a crime. Don't be such a typical political jerk and punish the victim. (referring to women last year that were raped and yet their rapists get off with a slap on the wrists)

If the LS story is true (Again, I don't know it) or that was her past and she is done with it out of shame - and that she feel in love with you and has been faithful to you all this time. Then you are likely throwing away a good thing. You are punishing her for something that was in the past and that you were both played with by the xBF... who wants to HURT you, and destroy her. You are HURTING her big time. Guys like that will tell her "See, you are trash. you only deserve scum like me."

You need to be the better person, because right now - she is far more hurt than you are - and you are in control of the pain of both of you.
Get therapy for the both of you. Don't break someone's heart for stupid reasons.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

One thing I don't read in her post (if it's hers) is blameshifting. She takes responsibility, was even proactive about getting therapy once pregnant. 

She seems like a resilient young woman who made some poor choices and was coerced and groomed from the age of 12. By 18,she is still not going to have the ability to rationalize beyond what her ex expected of her. Her father was an abuser, her mother dead, her ex was probably all she knew. 

The OP is free to make his own choices but i hope he at least tries to understand things from her perspective.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Okay, I just read the post on LS. If its the same woman as the OP's fiancee...

Then I say, she could do better. She deserves someone better. I have little sympathy for a bigot. (tsk tsk: all white people have black DNA)
What she posted on #141 and #168... horrible and heartbreaking.

Self-righteous are NOT good people just because they say they are. But the woman over there is totally in love with her ex-fiancee - and his structured way of things is something she liked. Being ridged, bigoted and some ways mean, are not good qualities to children. If this woman's ex-F's friends are posting such vile stuff about her - well, that's deplorable on them.

Not giving her a chance to explain herself... but taking the word of a junkie that sees her son 1-2 times a year. Won't give up his parental rights, yeah that is a manipulator. He keeps her on his leash that way. Hopefully she'll meet someone better who is understanding and will love her. She sounds strong, smart and worthy of respect.

OP... get therapy, become a better person. You've got a lot of work to do on yourself. (LS thread or not - because of you as you posted here, you NEVER allowed her to tell HER SIDE of the story. You didn't give her a chance. )

If YOU decide to go back to her. PLEASE PLEASE get therapy as a couple and for yourself. Otherwise, you are wasting HER time (and her son's feelings) with you.
Be a better man.

God knows we need better people on this planet.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aine said:


> If it is the same girl in LS then the XBF was a pedophile who used her.
> 
> OP if you didn't take the time to find out the truth then you are not worthy of her. If you knew this and stil behaved the way you did by dumping her, you are a cad who is only concerned about your own ego.
> 
> ...


No that doesn't sound like the story. I gave you the post and even the most important post number to read. Why not get the facts before you call anyone a cad. OP hasn't done anything wrong. This is a terrible situation for everyone.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> Wow.
> 
> I think the bottom line comes down to 2 things:
> 
> ...


She says that when they started dating he told her didn't care about her past and didn't' want to know about it. He just didn't know he was going to end up getting a video of all the gory details. From her perspective not having to talk about that part of her life probably seemed like hitting the jackpot. She probably thought he didn't really care enough to investigate and was giving her a fresh start. 

However, because of the horrific nature of it, she probably would have been better served to at least give some idea that she was abused and did things in her past she was not proud of. At least it wouldn't be a total shock and his first impression wouldn't have been shaped by her monstrous ex.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Satya said:


> One thing I don't read in her post (if it's hers) is blameshifting. She takes responsibility, was even proactive about getting therapy once pregnant


I agree she is actually to be admired. Like I said in the other posts she should be dead, many would not survive this. Her love for her son is what has kept her. Most would have given up. She is a fighter. I hope she finds a Man who will fight for her a little so she can rest for a while. Doesn't seem to have been one Man in her whole life that has. They all just saw her as an object for sex, at least until this guy came along.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hellomynameis said:


> I wish the OP would come back and verify if the LS post is from his GF. Did anyone who is blaming her here actually read her first post? She was NOT a willing adult participant. The ex was forcing himself on her when she was only 12 and sharing her out to other men when she was only 14! Yes she states she was 18 when he made the video but at that point she was probably so broken by the whole situation that she didn't see the point in fighting him. And if she was only with this SOB to get away from her FOO, I shudder to think what her home life must have been like.
> 
> OP if this is indeed your GF, I can certainly understand if you can't cope with her past but I do hope you realize what happened to her was child sexual abuse and even rape and NOT consensual adult sex.
> 
> I am horrified by the amount of sl*t shaming going on in that LS thread. I will never understand the "blame the victim" mentality.


Maybe because we don't know if she was a victim or not. You are making assumptions that no woman would ever act that way unless forced into it, which of course is untrue. 
If it is the case that she was only 12, then this is completely different, but that wasnt the impression I got from the ops original post, and it certainly wasnt what she appeared to say to him when he found out. She could have just explained that she was a child and was forced into it, then they could have reported him to the police, and the OP would have been far more understanding and accepting.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe because we don't know if she was a victim or not. You are making assumptions that no woman would ever act that way unless forced into it, which of course is untrue.
> If it is the case that she was only 12, then this is completely different, but that wasnt the impression I got from the ops original post, and it certainly wasnt what she appeared to say to him when he found out. She could have just explained that she was a child and was forced into it, then they could have reported him to the police, and the OP would have been far more understanding and accepting.


That's funny, because I interpreted her post exactly the opposite of you. Reading the entire thread reinforced my initial perception. This tells me there's likely a lot of projection going on in this thread.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> That's funny, because I interpreted her post exactly the opposite of you. Reading the entire thread reinforced my initial perception. This tells me there's likely a lot of projection going on in this thread.


I am talking about the Op's post, and no, no projection on my part.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hudson said:


> That is a predicament. I would like to attempt to reconcile and have a happy relationship again, however I don't know if that's even possible. I don't want to get her hopes up to crush them again when I am not able to stick with it. Trust would also be problematic, I imagine on her end as well. It's not something that I can even talk to her about without getting her hopes up. If she sees a glimpse of hope, or even if she doesn't, she runs with it and hopes that I'm changing my mind. I try to remain as emotionless as possible around her, which in turn causes her to believe I'm not interested at all. Hurting her is the last thing that I want.


Woke up with this thought.

*1 - *YOU never had the decency to give her 5 minutes to EXPLAIN herself. Think about how that does NOT make you a strong, honest or respectable.

*2 - *You *are* messing with her by seeing her when you interact with HER son, and giving her nothing but coldness. I mean, I can understand a few days to process this nightmare but... geez, 2 months? Only thing you have done is HURT HER GREATLY. If you are a religious person, I don't think Jesus would agree.

*3 - *You talk about the mind-movies of watching the video, that it can't be UNSEEN. Okay, now what about HER nightmare of being raped for most of her teenage years. Being told she was only worthy of being a sex object. You are NOT helping. She is a much stronger person than you.

*4 -* I stand by my earlier statement. If you figure out the wrong you have done and have the guts to face her - you apologize with everything in your being for your actions. Imagine *IF* you have a daughter or even a son - would you be like a religious extremist and throw them out of your home because they got raped and it's their fault? Put yourself *IN HER PLACE*. Or at least tell her that YOU are not good enough for her, you are not strong enough to deal with her past and be on your way.

*5 - *GO get therpy, read books and make an effort to be a better human being. So you will have some respect for your future wife, this woman or some other person.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> How can you possibly know that she was taken advantage of? She may well have been an equally willing participant in this, and also she wasn't honest, she never told him what she had done. She kept it secret all this time. He found out through another person.She wasnt a little girl being abused, but an adult who willingly went out with this man for a long time and willingly took part in sex with many partners. She could have left him any time.
> 
> Yes it is relevant what we have done in the past, especially if we are going to get married and have children.They should be no sordid secrets in marriage.
> I would wonder what else she was keeping from me in his place.I can understand his position, I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to act that way, and I wouldn't trust a man who had lied about it, and would probably have married me keeping that to himself.


She was with him from age 12 - 19...she was a little girl. She was never with him as a legal adult - at least in the US, the legal age of adulthood is 21 is that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The LS post is heartbreaking...she was just a little girl, and was used and abused over and over. Getting pregnant is what shocked her out of it and she seems to be a good and loving mum to her child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

frusdil said:


> She was with him from age 12 - 19...she was a little girl. She was never with him as a legal adult - at least in the US, the legal age of adulthood is 21 is that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> The LS post is heartbreaking...she was just a little girl, and was used and abused over and over. Getting pregnant is what shocked her out of it and she seems to be a good and loving mum to her child.


Do we know that was her?

Not sure about the USA. Adulthood in the UK is 18 and sex is allowed from 16 although many have sex before then sadly. 

If she was a child then I cant understand why she didn't tell him that when he found out, and then they could gone to the police together, because this man needs to be kept away from other girls. its highly likely he has abused many more since then. .


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Do we know that was her?
> 
> Not sure about the USA. Adulthood in the UK is 18 and sex is allowed from 16 although many have sex before then sadly.
> 
> If she was a child then I cant understand why she didn't tell him that when he found out, and then they could gone to the police together, because this man needs to be kept away from other girls. its highly likely he has abused many more since then. .


She's in Canada and she's already been told by multiple lawyers that she doesn't have a case. From what she said, the age of consent in Canada at the time this happened to her was only 14 which is disgusting. Apparently it's 16 now. And I think she said the guy was 6 years older so he was a legal adult when it started.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Are there any REAL MEN in this woman's life!! I am not even talking romantic, every one of them has failed her. It makes me SO angry!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Hellomynameis said:


> She's in Canada and she's already been told by multiple lawyers that she doesn't have a case. From what she said, the age of consent in Canada at the time this happened to her was only 14 which is disgusting. Apparently it's 16 now. And I think she said the guy was 6 years older so he was a legal adult when it started.


if it is her, and we don't know that, I thought she was 12 when it started? 

It would definitely be investigated in the Uk if she was only 12. I thought that this wasn't that long ago?. When did the law change?. I am surprised that Canada would have such a low age of consent so recently.Mind you I know a couple in the USA who married recently age 15 and 16. Seems crazy to me, but there you go. 

If she was forced and manipulated then I think she needs to go to the police not a lawyer.

Still not sure this is the same lady though.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow a ton of speculation. From what we know I don't blame you for ending things.

If you want to confirm or deny this other thread is related to her then I might change my post. But since you haven't I'm not swayed by the speculation of others. The internet is a very big place...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@hudson, feel like coming back and setting the record straight for us?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> if it is her, and we don't know that, I thought she was 12 when it started?
> 
> It would definitely be investigated in the Uk if she was only 12. I thought that this wasn't that long ago?. When did the law change?. I am surprised that Canada would have such a low age of consent so recently.Mind you I know a couple in the USA who married recently age 15 and 16. Seems crazy to me, but there you go.
> 
> ...


This kind of abuse doesn't just start at this level it takes years of grooming to get to the point where anyway is able to go this far against what at one time would seem too far. If you start dating a guy at 12 who is raping you, no doubt you are going to end up in a bad way.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Hudson, you are probably a bit shell shocked from the comments here and particularly if the girl is the same one in LS you are dealing with a double whammy. 
When you are ready, please do come back, we can help you, if only to let you sort though your thoughts.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> This it?
> 
> Google lets you find anything.
> 
> ...


Without reading the LS post, this was my thoughts almost exactly.

The ex needs charges brought and a restraining order.

He really needs some attention I can't mention here.

Give her a chance Hudson.

Let her talk about it. Not all of us choose the days of our youth.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dude if you are still reading this I don't think your wrong if taking this on too much for you. I just think you are heroic if you do. No one is judging you here. OK maybe on or two but most of us get it.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yep... It takes a BRAVE MAN to admit his faults and to become a better person. So yeah, you'll gain more respect from others here and IRL if you can do that.

You did judge someone you "love", therefore you're going to be judged by your actions as well. Whatever shame or butt-hurt you are getting from people like me or others *IS NOTHING* compared to what you have done to that poor woman.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Yep... It takes a BRAVE MAN to admit his faults and to become a better person. So yeah, you'll gain more respect from others here and IRL if you can do that.
> 
> You did judge someone you "love", therefore you're going to be judged by your actions as well. Whatever shame or butt-hurt you are getting from people like me or others *IS NOTHING* compared to what you have done to that poor woman.


This unfair too. The ex psycho is the machiavellian one here. Most if not all people would have reacted the way OP did when being blindsided with seeing that. This whole situation is terrible, and this women is not his wife so he didn't brake a commitment. What is needed in this situation is healing. Not recrimination.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> This kind of abuse doesn't just start at this level it takes years of grooming to get to the point where anyway is able to go this far against what at one time would seem too far. If you start dating a guy at 12 who is raping you, no doubt you are going to end up in a bad way.


I agree. 12 is far too young to date, you have to wonder where her parents were(if it is her and we don't know that)


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yes, the crazy junky EXBF is the major thorn in this woman's life.

I *DO NOT* agree that most people would act like the way the OP did, not someone with compassion and the ability to think.
1 - the EXBF all of the *SUDDEN* cares after 3 years. Hint, mind games.
2 - OP Hasn't (so far) simply sit down and let her explain what was in the video, especially *IF* it happened almost 10 years ago! Obviously, she was a very young adult.
3 - If the OP isn't the same situation that is on Loveshack, then its easy to come back here and say "That's not us". So hopefully he's thinking about how he has wronged that poor woman.
4 - No matter if you are B&W - much of the world is not B&W. The inflexibility to talk to "the love of my life" is a problem that the OP has, or anyone who is like that.

Geez, if a person is drugged - its possible to not be aware of your situation. I have been drugged, my body interacted with others for about an hour and I don't remember anything but a few seconds here and there. Photos of friends at the club shows me having fun - but I was drugged, not drunk. A friend of mine was recently drugged and raped - she doesn't know who did it or how she got to where she woke up from. The timing was bad and If she was around me a bit longer when the drug hit, I might have caught on and protected her. Date-rape type drugs can make you do what you are told.
I do remember being told to do something, and I was like "okay". If someone told me to jump off a building - most likely, I would have done it.

If the OP gave his Fiancee of 3 years just 15 minutes or even 5 minutes of his time to listen to her. Then go off and think about it... he likely wouldn't have spent 2 months torturing the both of them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I agree. 12 is far too young to date, you have to wonder where her parents were(if it is her and we don't know that)


So you didn't read the post right? Her father repeatedly raped her both her and her mother. Sounds like her mother committed suicide.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> So you didn't read the post right? Her father repeatedly raped her both her and her mother. Sounds like her mother committed suicide.


No I havent read it, its not on this forum apparently and we dont even know if its her.

I will never understand how any mother can know their child is being abused and do nothing. Its sick.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If that stuff was taped and he was, what 18 and her 12.... 19/13, 20/14 etc. what is the statute of

limitations in Canada? There are SoL in the US... and..... I have sat in on psych evals, investigated,

etc. and EVERY time.... they throw one away, they have another waiting. That is how they were nailed.

Oh.... they also were charged with engaging in child porn and trafficking it.... they get more time for that.

Whether you take her back or not.... bring that low life SOB to justice.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Apparently Chuck71, the OP's ex-fiancee was about 12 when she meet her BF and had sex with him - which no age was given for him, but maybe was age 12 or a bit older. By the time she was 14, he then shared her out to his friends. When she was 18 (about 10 years ago) he made a video of her in a gangbang.

Back in those days, as a CSA - she did what she was told, did drinking/drugs - etc. Thought that was normal. When she had the baby, she made a point to change her life to get away from such people. 5 years after that, she meet the OP (If its the same person).

OP hasn't been around since JAN 30. He didn't handle the 2x4s well. Maybe he'll come back? Maybe he'll learn to be a better person - doesn't matter if the OP is the same guy in question from LS.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Hellomynameis said:


> She's in Canada and she's already been told by multiple lawyers that she doesn't have a case. From what she said, the age of consent in Canada at the time this happened to her was only 14 which is disgusting. Apparently it's 16 now. And I think she said the guy was 6 years older so he was a legal adult when it started.


There is a little more to the 14/16 age of consent in Canada than that.

It must be within 3 year age difference. Example: a 15 year old being with an 18 year old is considered consenting adults but a 15 year old with a 20 year old is considered statutory rape.

Do I agree with my countries lax laws on what age of consent is. No but that's what it is.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Chuck71 said:


> If that stuff was taped and he was, what 18 and her 12.... 19/13, 20/14 etc. what is the statute of
> 
> limitations in Canada? There are SoL in the US... and..... I have sat in on psych evals, investigated,
> 
> ...


The statute of limitations is murky for this type of situation. However, at 12 years of age (when it started) does not appear (in my research) to have a statute of limitations. The videos would be (depending on her age in the videos, if under age - let's assume she is) physical evidence of child pornography, intent to distribute (showing to another person) child pornography, possession of child pornography, making of child pornography, soliciting a minor, grooming of a minor and extortion/coercion of a minor.

All federal level criminal charges (our version of felonies).

No statute of limitations on those.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

TaDor said:


> Apparently Chuck71, the OP's ex-fiancee was about 12 when she meet her BF and had sex with him - which no age was given for him, but maybe was age 12 or a bit older. By the time she was 14, he then shared her out to his friends. When she was 18 (about 10 years ago) he made a video of her in a gangbang.
> 
> Back in those days, as a CSA - she did what she was told, did drinking/drugs - etc. Thought that was normal. When she had the baby, she made a point to change her life to get away from such people. 5 years after that, she meet the OP (If its the same person).
> 
> OP hasn't been around since JAN 30. He didn't handle the 2x4s well. Maybe he'll come back? Maybe he'll learn to be a better person - doesn't matter if the OP is the same guy in question from LS.


It was noted she was 12 and he was 6 years older.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Or that's a completely different story


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> It was noted she was 12 and he was 6 years older.


I guess I missed the part in which she specified that he was 6 years older. I didn't see it. I apologize.

10 years ago, 20 years ago, etc- that *is wrong*. He was already an adult having sex with a child as a "girlfriend" - and with that kind of control, yeah- he could get her to do anything. The courts should have seen it as rape and have no statute of limitations which should have resulted in him being sent to prison.

And with *THAT* - the OP should have known that the exBF was pretty much a druggie child-molester and understand how much damage an 18yr old can do to the mind of a 12 year old who was already being raped by her family.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

It is not simply that she lied. It is the magnitude of her lies, or omission if you prefer. 

Throughout our friendship and courtship she never strayed from the belief that her XBF was our son's biological father. When our son was conceived she was having intercourse with up to 18 men who didn't wear condoms. She refuses to have a DNA test to confirm that. There is no reason to deny the test but many reasons to do it. There would be no way to figure out who the biological father is, she wouldn't have to send our son to see her XBF. Our son hates seeing the XBF and it isn't healthy for him. She could cease all contact with the XBF and move. She should do everything that she can to protect our son, not keep ties to her XBF. If he truly abused her as badly as she claims, she would do everything in her power to get away from him. The XBF has never fought paternity because he wants to keep her around. 

She has continued to let that time in her life rule the rest of her life. By keeping her XBF in her, our, life. By letting us be neighbours to someone she use screw. Who wants to live next door to their rapist? I suspect that no woman would be comfortable with that and would move as quickly as possible. She is comfortable living so close to this man and having our son around him and pretending everything is hunkey dorey. How can she be ok living next to someone she knows liked to rape children? Or see that he has children and not report it?

She agreed to marry me knowing dang well what she was hiding. How long would she have kept this hidden? I reckon it never would have come out. When it finally did come out, she went a pitched a hissy fit. She might not be stupid but she is acting like she doesn't have the sense god gave a goose. She wants all of this information to just vanish and for us to go back to living together and pretending the information never came to light. She seems to believe that I didn't have the right to know what I was truly marrying into, what I would be bringing more children into. 

She can say whatever she wants, at the end of the day her actions are not lining up with what spews out of her mouth. 

Her XBF was not 6 years older than she was, so if that is something she has been telling people then it is a lie to try and make her situation seem worse. They were the same age, maybe a years difference. She either lied to others to make her situation seem worse or lied to me, both of which are believable. She has lied over the entire time period I have known her. She had so many opportunities to bring this up or even share a small detail, so many times that she lied (by omission or otherwise). Everything that she said to cover up this massive part of her life was a lie. It circles back to, I have no idea who I spent the last 3 years with and who I planned to marry. 

It is not so much what her past entails, it is how it came to light. A massive amount of information was dropped without any suspect. I was blindsided and I am aware that I could have, or should have, responded better. 

I still want to be with her but there is a massive boulder sitting in the way and the big question, is it even possible to come back from this. Or do I only want to be with her because I miss her and I'm not over her yet. I do not want to go in and out of her life and repeatedly hurt her. 

RE: the post on that other website, I have not read it nor will I. It is a massive invasion of privacy and what she has wanted me to know, she has told me. I have had enough lessons with obtaining information for another source.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hudson,

that is not a boulder that is freaking house between you too......your that guy...the guy where everyone including his wife is on the joke but him....every time you saw the neighbor little did you know he was doing your girlfriend...this can seriously mess with your head....and BTW you know the old adage....you got to sleep with everyone she slept with....that sucks...here is the bottom if she can hold a secret like this from you for all that time, can you trust her, once the marriage gets boring... 10 years from now, 15 years from now...when she si looking at you and saying to herself...i need more excitement. walk away...just walk away and be happy you dodged a bullet.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> It is not simply that she lied. It is the magnitude of her lies, or omission if you prefer.
> 
> Throughout our friendship and courtship she never strayed from the belief that her XBF was our son's biological father. When our son was conceived she was having intercourse with up to 18 men who didn't wear condoms. She refuses to have a DNA test to confirm that. There is no reason to deny the test but many reasons to do it. There would be no way to figure out who the biological father is, she wouldn't have to send our son to see her XBF. Our son hates seeing the XBF and it isn't healthy for him. She could cease all contact with the XBF and move. She should do everything that she can to protect our son, not keep ties to her XBF. If he truly abused her as badly as she claims, she would do everything in her power to get away from him. The XBF has never fought paternity because he wants to keep her around.
> 
> ...


I think we all understand. If the dude has custody of the kid though there is not much she can do. A DNA test won't change that as far as the state is concerned. However if she lived next door to a guy who was a part of this that would be a red flag to me too. If it is like you say then it's worse then her post made out. This may not be intentional it's a hard thing for both of you. I'm sorry dude. 

If you are going to get over her, you need to stop contacting her. I feel the worst for the kid.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

Run!


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

Regarding our neighbour, she could have told me that he was someone she had sex with in the past. That in itself would not have been the end of the world. Allow me that knowledge before it came up in another way. Or if it was how she says, that he raped her, I would rather move than live near her rapist and have her live in discomfort. She wasn't uncomfortable, though. That's the problem. She told me that she had sex with him weekly for 5 years and he has video proof of their sexual escapades, but that he doesn't remember or recognize her. Right. I recognize people who I simply went to primary school with and haven't seen in 25 years but I'm suppose to believe he doesn't recognize someone he had sex with approximately 260 times and filmed it? Her reasoning for not telling me was that she didn't want to move due to liking the area and being in a good school district, and that she didn't want to make me uncomfortable. 

Regarding our son, she has been told by two lawyers that if a DNA test confirmed the XBF is not the biological father she could possibly have his rights terminated. The child and the father have no relationship. The father has only been granted visitation bi-monthly. That visitation time is limited to a few hours and is supervised. He has attended <20% of the granted visitation and has never been in attendance for school or sport events. 

She has ties to her past life that she refuses to sever. Maybe that past life isn't in the past at all and is very much still part of her present life. Due to the amount of lies that she has said over the years to cover this up, I am unable to believe anything that she says. Especially when her actions don't match her words. She continuously puts our son at risk and she could end that. That could be the worse part of all of this.


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## DepressedHusband (Apr 22, 2011)

hudson said:


> I was with my fiancée for 3 years and we have been separated for 2 months. Our engagement was pathetically short, less than a week before we separated. Our engagement didn't end due to anything she or I did in the present, it ended over something that occurred in her past that she hid from me and I discovered through a 3rd party. That 3rd party being her long term XBF that she was with for IDK 8-9 years. What she did is something that I have no respect for, and while it's hard to process the lying was worse. In the duration of her relationship with her XBF they opened the relationship to a couple dozen males and she willingly participated in frequent group sex. She presented herself as a woman who had sexual relations with a small handful of men and it was quite the misrepresentation. I'm not a man who has had sex with a large array of women. By my own decision I have only had any sort of intimacy with 5 women. That is how I was raised and where my beliefs lie, intimacy isn't something to hand out to anyone. It was a massive shock to have that information thrown at me, unsuspected. There was visual evidence to go along with it and though I tried not to look at it I was unsuccessful. Now, it is something that I cannot erase from my mind. Knowing your partner has been with other men is one game, having the visual of 4 blokes stuffed inside her and her enjoying it is another. She has been understanding and gracious during this time. She is incredibly hurt and is trying to heal while staying open to reconciliation.
> 
> She has a young child and unfortunately with the XBF mentioned above. This fellow is an idiot. There is a tree stump in a Louisiana swamp with a higher IQ than he has. He is the legal father of the child though he has no role in the child's life. I have always been close with the child and my ex has selflessly allowed me to continue that with visits. Walking away from that child would feel no different than any other present father walking away from his child.
> 
> ...


Start over, just don't do it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> Regarding our neighbour, she could have told me that he was someone she had sex with in the past. That in itself would not have been the end of the world. Allow me that knowledge before it came up in another way. Or if it was how she says, that he raped her, I would rather move than live near her rapist and have her live in discomfort. She wasn't uncomfortable, though. That's the problem. She told me that she had sex with him weekly for 5 years and he has video proof of their sexual escapades, but that he doesn't remember or recognize her. Right. I recognize people who I simply went to primary school with and haven't seen in 25 years but I'm suppose to believe he doesn't recognize someone he had sex with approximately 260 times and filmed it? Her reasoning for not telling me was that she didn't want to move due to liking the area and being in a good school district, and that she didn't want to make me uncomfortable.
> 
> Regarding our son, she has been told by two lawyers that if a DNA test confirmed the XBF is not the biological father she could possibly have his rights terminated. The child and the father have no relationship. The father has only been granted visitation bi-monthly. That visitation time is limited to a few hours and is supervised. He has attended <20% of the granted visitation and has never been in attendance for school or sport events.
> 
> She has ties to her past life that she refuses to sever. Maybe that past life isn't in the past at all and is very much still part of her present life. Due to the amount of lies that she has said over the years to cover this up, I am unable to believe anything that she says. Especially when her actions don't match her words. She continuously puts our son at risk and she could end that. That could be the worse part of all of this.


Why do you call him our son. From her post this is her child from with that guy. You are not even married, though you do take very good care of him and are very close to him.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

hudson said:


> It is not simply that she lied. It is the magnitude of her lies, or omission if you prefer.
> 
> Throughout our friendship and courtship she never strayed from the belief that her XBF was our son's biological father. When our son was conceived she was having intercourse with up to 18 men who didn't wear condoms. She refuses to have a DNA test to confirm that. There is no reason to deny the test but many reasons to do it. There would be no way to figure out who the biological father is, she wouldn't have to send our son to see her XBF. Our son hates seeing the XBF and it isn't healthy for him. She could cease all contact with the XBF and move. She should do everything that she can to protect our son, not keep ties to her XBF. If he truly abused her as badly as she claims, she would do everything in her power to get away from him. The XBF has never fought paternity because he wants to keep her around.
> 
> ...





hudson said:


> Regarding our neighbour, she could have told me that he was someone she had sex with in the past. That in itself would not have been the end of the world. Allow me that knowledge before it came up in another way. Or if it was how she says, that he raped her, I would rather move than live near her rapist and have her live in discomfort. She wasn't uncomfortable, though. That's the problem. She told me that she had sex with him weekly for 5 years and he has video proof of their sexual escapades, but that he doesn't remember or recognize her. Right. I recognize people who I simply went to primary school with and haven't seen in 25 years but I'm suppose to believe he doesn't recognize someone he had sex with approximately 260 times and filmed it? Her reasoning for not telling me was that she didn't want to move due to liking the area and being in a good school district, and that she didn't want to make me uncomfortable.
> 
> Regarding our son, she has been told by two lawyers that if a DNA test confirmed the XBF is not the biological father she could possibly have his rights terminated. The child and the father have no relationship. The father has only been granted visitation bi-monthly. That visitation time is limited to a few hours and is supervised. He has attended <20% of the granted visitation and has never been in attendance for school or sport events.
> 
> She has ties to her past life that she refuses to sever. Maybe that past life isn't in the past at all and is very much still part of her present life. Due to the amount of lies that she has said over the years to cover this up, I am unable to believe anything that she says. Especially when her actions don't match her words. She continuously puts our son at risk and she could end that. That could be the worse part of all of this.



OK, this additional information makes me suspect that there's more to her story (on the other site) than she posts.

Frankly, don't let these knuckleheads who try to shame you change your mind.
YOU DON'T OWE ANYBODY ANY MARRIAGE. You have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to have any criteria you want for your wife. 

For me, the lying would be enough. NO ONE, not even my spouse, gets to decide for me what "counts" and what "doesn't count" or "what I need to know or don't need to know." If a person cannot be COMPLETELY honest about things that MATTER to me (and believe me, it's obvious from the other site that she knew this would matter to you), then I cannot live with them as a spouse. Yes, they can always say they don't want to tell me/it's too personal/don't feel spouses have the right to that information, and they are entitled to that opinion. But then go our separate ways, don't lie by commission or by omission about things they know d**n well are unacceptable,

So I back you--or anyone---in refusing to get married for ANY criteria. There's over 7 billion people on the planet, so there's someone else as match out there if the "non-negotiable" items can't be overcome. There is no need to compromise on what is important to you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hudson, you call him your son, but let's be clear he is not your son, legally, or biologically, you may be the only caring male in his life and if you want to play that role you realize it comes with a huge price tag of lies, deception and secrets that you will have to deal with until that boy turns 18...and that is assuming your not going to have children with her...why are you not walking away from this?
If you stay with her, knowing what you know now....you can never blame her for anything....your like the guy who knowlingly walks in to a tribe of cannibalizes and ask what's for dinner? Good luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If she and her boyfriend were the same age when they had sex, then that shows things weren't as some here have implied. Its very different from a 12 year old having sex with an adult.

Maybe she doesn't want the dna test because she will loose out financially? However if she was having sex with multiple men then the chances are that he isn't his. 

I agree that this is a mess and that its so hard for you to have this suddenly sprung on you.
I can understand that you feel you cant go on with this relationship after all the lies and secrets.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> I guess I missed the part in which she specified that he was 6 years older. I didn't see it. I apologize.
> 
> 10 years ago, 20 years ago, etc- that *is wrong*. He was already an adult having sex with a child as a "girlfriend" - and with that kind of control, yeah- he could get her to do anything. The courts should have seen it as rape and have no statute of limitations which should have resulted in him being sent to prison.
> 
> And with *THAT* - the OP should have known that the exBF was pretty much a druggie child-molester and understand how much damage an 18yr old can do to the mind of a 12 year old who was already being raped by her family.


The op has said they were the same age.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Hudson, it appears her story elsewhere is not the truth either, this is a very big block to get past. If she is not prepared to make a break with the past for your sake I would suggest you move on.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

He is not my son from a legal or biological standpoint. Neither of those make the relationship between him and I any less. I say "our son" because as far as him, his mother and I are concerned, he is and always will be. It's not easy, not in the slightest. It isn't easy for many parents who split up. In some ways it is worse for me because there is no security or legal protection in my relationship with him. I am at her mercy. 

He doesn't pay child support. He is supposed to but that is a whole other problem. The reasoning I have been given is that she knows the XBF is the biological father because in the month she got pregnant she was only intimate with him. She said she didn't want to bring up a DNA test prior to this information coming out because that surely would bring it up. She was under the impression that I would think less of her if she didn't know who the biological father was. She was worried that she'd have to try and find the biological father and that he would be a worse man than her XBF. For all I know it's the neighbour. Now she doesn't want to do it because no judge would let me adopt our son when we are no longer together. If we got back together she claims she would do it in a heartbeat and if the XBF is not the father she would go ahead with having his rights terminated and allow me to adopt him. 

That is why I don't want to read what is posted on the other website. I don't want to have any additional reason to doubt her. I don't know what was written, but based on what was written here it may not all have been true or some major details may have been left out.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> He is not my son from a legal or biological standpoint. Neither of those make the relationship between him and I any less. I say "our son" because as far as him, his mother and I are concerned, he is and always will be. It's not easy, not in the slightest. It isn't easy for many parents who split up. In some ways it is worse for me because there is no security or legal protection in my relationship with him. I am at her mercy.
> 
> He doesn't pay child support. He is supposed to but that is a whole other problem. The reasoning I have been given is that she knows the XBF is the biological father because in the month she got pregnant she was only intimate with him. She said she didn't want to bring up a DNA test prior to this information coming out because that surely would bring it up. She was under the impression that I would think less of her if she didn't know who the biological father was. She was worried that she'd have to try and find the biological father and that he would be a worse man than her XBF. For all I know it's the neighbour. Now she doesn't want to do it because no judge would let me adopt our son when we are no longer together. If we got back together she claims she would do it in a heartbeat and if the XBF is not the father she would go ahead with having his rights terminated and allow me to adopt him.
> 
> That is why I don't want to read what is posted on the other website. I don't want to have any additional reason to doubt her. I don't know what was written, but based on what was written here it may not all have been true or some major details may have been left out.


Your situation is very hard.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

If I allow my mind to wander the paranoid part of me starts to wonder why she was comfortable living so close to one of her "rapists". I put it in quotations because I have no idea what to believe at this point. I don't doubt that certain parts of what she has told me are true, such as her family life, but I do have doubts about some other things she has told me. I always come up with two conclusions. 

That the neighbour is our sons biological father and she is aware of that. She was having sex with him up until she became pregnant, the possibility is there. Perhaps she knew that he lived in this area and had a reason to be close to him. That reason being a shared child. My son has never mentioned having contact with another man but that does not totally eliminate the possibility. That man is married and has children, perhaps it was an agreement between the two of them. Live close by but don't tell the spouses. It could be a stretch but it within the realm of possibility. 

That she is still involved in the prior lifestyle. Easy, quick access to each other or other people. She use to engage in sex to acquire drugs, perhaps that is still going on. 

I cannot comprehend any other reason why a woman would be comfortable living in close proximity to her rapist. I wouldn't want to continue living there. If we do reconcile and move back in together I guarantee it wouldn't be there. If I am uncomfortable with it she should be as well.

As a comparison, she doesn't want to be anywhere near her XBF. If he moved to the area I have no doubts that she would move as quickly as possible. She sees him a few times a year at best and can barely handle that. Each time she goes into a depressive mood for a few days following seeing him and has had panic attacks while our son is with him. 

It just does not line up. I don't want to keep talking to her about it because every time I tell her I want to talk she gets her hopes up about reconciliation. She becomes extremely emotional while we are together, to the point of balling and begging me to stay when it comes time for me to leave. Every time she tries to get physically closer to me and I move away or she tries to touch me and I move her hand, she cries. Even still, 3 months since I've moved out, she cannot look at me without tearing up. I can't deal with it. It makes me feel as if I'm doing something wrong and pushes me away from her. That, on top of everything else, makes reconciling feel so far out of reach. Perhaps there really is no where to go from here.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hudson.... you're a good man. You did what most others would not. I commend you.

But the deception will always gnaw at you. Funny thing... Hudson, if you never posted here 

until say, 2021, and you shared the background you have now, and your W was having an EA or

simply hiding the truth. Many here would call you a Mr. Fixer / Mr. Nice Guy / Mr. Doormat and

a KISA, knight in shining armor. Yet on this thread, you have gotten bashed for not

looking past it. We here call that rugsweeping and it is very unhealthy.

If you can not get past her lies, you must move on. And... cut ties with the child.

You can't be her savior.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It may be advisable if you can get a third party, maybe a family member, to go and collect the boy and take him back. It will be less painful for you both if you don't meet in person, and will give you both the space you need to accept its over and begin to heal. 
Meeting all the time just opens the wound over and over.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

There is no winning in a situation like this. I can't please everyone, that's for sure. Each person is going to have a different take or walk away with a different impression. 

I don't want to sweep it under the rug, and I also don't want to throw my hands up and walk away. I wish we could sit down and talk without her becoming a blubbering mess, and that she could talk openly with me without hiding anything. She has withheld enough information from me and has made enough decisions over what I can and cannot handle. We are not going to get anywhere if we can't talk about it. She is becoming less and less willing to talk about it because she doesn't see a point anymore. She is under the impression that there is zero chance we will ever get back together, which is my fault. I can't be near her, look at her or touch her without it hurting. If I spend too much time physically with her I fear that I would never leave and sweep it under the rug. 

I have suggested having a 3rd party becoming involved so that we don't have to see each other. She hasn't been open to that idea. She wants to keep seeing me and has hopes that if I see her enough I'll go home. I have started picking him up after school so I see her half as often. Ideally, he'd stay here overnight and his mother and I wouldn't have to see each other at all. She isn't open to that right now. He has stayed overnight, but she still arranges it so we see each other. 

We're trying to handle this completely differently and it leads her to believe that I have totally given up. I haven't, not yet.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> It may be advisable if you can get a third party, maybe a family member, to go and collect the boy and take him back. It will be less painful for you both if you don't meet in person, and will give you both the space you need to accept its over and begin to heal.
> Meeting all the time just opens the wound over and over.


Judging by the family dynamics...... TALL order


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hudson said:


> There is no winning in a situation like this.* I can't please everyone*, that's for sure. Each person is going to have a different take or walk away with a different impression.
> 
> I don't want to sweep it under the rug, and I also don't want to throw my hands up and walk away. I wish we could sit down and talk without her becoming a blubbering mess, and that she could talk openly with me without hiding anything. She has withheld enough information from me and has made enough decisions over what I can and cannot handle. We are not going to get anywhere if we can't talk about it. She is becoming less and less willing to talk about it because she doesn't see a point anymore. She is under the impression that there is zero chance we will ever get back together, which is my fault. I can't be near her, look at her or touch her without it hurting. If I spend too much time physically with her I fear that I would never leave and sweep it under the rug.
> 
> ...


You are NOT here to please others. This is YOUR life


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> If I allow my mind to wander the paranoid part of me starts to wonder why she was comfortable living so close to one of her "rapists". I put it in quotations because I have no idea what to believe at this point. I don't doubt that certain parts of what she has told me are true, such as her family life, but I do have doubts about some other things she has told me. I always come up with two conclusions.
> 
> That the neighbour is our sons biological father and she is aware of that. She was having sex with him up until she became pregnant, the possibility is there. Perhaps she knew that he lived in this area and had a reason to be close to him. That reason being a shared child. My son has never mentioned having contact with another man but that does not totally eliminate the possibility. That man is married and has children, perhaps it was an agreement between the two of them. Live close by but don't tell the spouses. It could be a stretch but it within the realm of possibility.
> 
> ...


Her only explanation about the neighbor is he wouldn't remember? That's BS. Have you told her you think it's BS? 

So she wants you to be in her son's life can you work it like just a hand off? I really don't blame you. Assuming now you are telling the truth the neighbor would be a deal stopper for me. Your reasoning seems very plausible. Maybe it stopped when she met you who knows. People who are really damaged don't react like people who are not. She really didn't have boundaries ever. So that makes it hard. But I wouldn't want to take that risk especially if she is still covering stuff up. 

I don't think you are doing each other any favors by hanging on in the periphery. You should try to find a way to deal with the kid without spending time with her. Like the big brother's organization or something.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> There is no winning in a situation like this. I can't please everyone, that's for sure. Each person is going to have a different take or walk away with a different impression.
> 
> I don't want to sweep it under the rug, and I also don't want to throw my hands up and walk away. I wish we could sit down and talk without her becoming a blubbering mess, and that she could talk openly with me without hiding anything. She has withheld enough information from me and has made enough decisions over what I can and cannot handle. We are not going to get anywhere if we can't talk about it. She is becoming less and less willing to talk about it because she doesn't see a point anymore. She is under the impression that there is zero chance we will ever get back together, which is my fault. I can't be near her, look at her or touch her without it hurting. If I spend too much time physically with her I fear that I would never leave and sweep it under the rug.
> 
> ...


Dialogue through letters. Maybe after the hard subjects at least broached you can start to speak in person. This is one where I don't want to recommend anything as I would be at just as much a loss as you are. 

However, it's not going to get any easier. What if you meet someone else? What if she does? Will you bring that new person to the kid's graduation? She may balk at that. How will this new person feel about your non-step step child. I doubt they will be really great with it. How will your ex feel about a new woman around her child? What if she meets someone and that person doesn't want you around? You have no recourse. 

Do you love the child enough to take the risk? I say that because I fear that one day you will lose access. What if you could get parental rights would that give you a motive? Say you marry her and buy the A-hole out. He would probably take it. I am not saying trust her. But then steal your heart and if she messes up you still have rights to what would then be "you're" son. 

How about making her take a poly? How about you go to the counseling sessions with her so you can hear what she has been working on all these years from a professional that would collaborate her story? Give you a professional opinion about what her background has done to her, and even maybe what you two need to work on. 

Look either way you look at it, you got a bad deal. If you don't want to leave the table because of your love this kid, even though it's your right and may be the best answer then you have to learn to live within the parameters of the deal. That's all I'm saying.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

The main reasoning that I was given re: the neighbour was that it is a very good area with a good school district, close to everything and we had a good deal on our home. She told me that she didn't know he lived there until after we had moved in and she didn't want to move again because of the reasons above and that he has never recognized her. As well she said that it makes her uncomfortable. It doesn't make her uncomfortable enough to move, which is incomprehensible to me. I'd rather be without a pot to piss in than live there. There are many other good areas to live in, that cannot be the only reason she wants to stay there. She did not live there until we moved in together.

If there is any chance of us reconciling she needs to tell me everything, uncensored. I cannot always be wondering what will come up next or if what she says to me is just lies and coverup. Trying to get information out of her is like trying to herd cats. 

Do people actually ask their partners/spouses to take a polygraph? I was under the impression that had a special spot on daytime television and that's it. My thought on that is if we had to come to that point we have no business being together. I have however been thinking over asking her to do a drug test. I know that she was previously involved in drugs and I also know that man, our neighbour, was as well. I don't like accusing her of such harsh allegations without good reasoning. After this information came to light I had myself STD tested more than once. 

Most times that our son is dropped off or picked up I attempt not to speak to her at all. If I go up to the door she tries to talk to me and if I try to walk away she either grabs my arm or goes in front of me and tries to stop me. I don't like ripping myself away from her. I don't want our son to see that and I don't want to hurt her, that has never been my intention. Our son is old enough that he can walk from the car to the front door alone, but she doesn't want that. In ways, I feel the need to ***** foot around her and keep her happy because I don't have any legal rights here. 

I have thought about writing things out to talk about them. I should give it another thought. She has sent me a few emails attempting to explain herself, which if I am honest I didn't read. At the time when they were sent it just came off as trying to cover her behind. She has spoken about counselling and that is something that I have not been open to, which could be my fault. She told me that she has been in therapy for a decade over this issue. 

That boy, he is just as much my son as he would be if I were his biological father or if I legally adopted him. The relationship has nothing to do with a piece of paper. I think of him and treat him no differently than any other good father treats their child. If we don't reconcile it is excepted that we will both meet other people. My thoughts on my meeting of another woman are no different from any other good father. I'm not going to allow a woman to come between me and my son. The woman accepts it or not. 

Based on how well I know, or think I know, my X I cannot see her ever going into a jealous rage. I know that it would be hard on her, as it would be on me as well. I have seen other women since moving out and I think she knows some details about that. She hasn't revoked my ability to see our son, all she has said is not to allow another woman around our son until I'm serious about her. I'm not the type of man to introduce every new date to my child. 

I will always be at her mercy in regards to my rights to see our son. If at some point she decides that she doesn't want me in his life anymore I would have to accept that. I would consult a lawyer to ask if there was anything that could be done but would not have high hopes. We have talked about methods to get the XBF out, including paying him off, she didn't want to do it with the reasoning that it is illegal. I would rather spend another X amount of time with him and lose him, then lose him now. Every day that I have him in my life is a gift. If at some point I'm forced to lose him, I want to have had as much time with him as possible.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Hudson,

You are spending way too much time trying to explain your take on the situation, which is the ONLY thing that matters. And it is bull **** when some of the comments here attack you as some unreasonable jerk. No one advising you has to lie down next to this woman not knowing what the **** really happened, what her true feeling were, and what she weas forced to do and what she was not forced to do.

Personally, I'm not buying the TOTALLY innocent victim line, but that is just my opinion. And what resonates with me is your statement, which I believe, that the overwhelming number of women who had been raped repeatedly and forced to bang multiple men would be ready to jump off a bridge living in gthe same neighborhood as one of the rapists. I don't give a **** what school district it is, that is not believable to me. 

And the real prob el also is that your GF knew perfectly well that this scum bag who supposedly had orchestrated all of this had these videos, and was perfectly willing to let you live next door to the participants AND possible be blindsided like this. That is the same as a woman having an affair, gettin g away with it, and hoping her husband never found out. You were totally blindsided by her lack of honesty, regardless of how she thought of how you would react. She gambled and lost. By the way, as a side not, there are tons of young women who are not drug addicts or junkies making similar decisions daily when they fly off to California to make a porn film or become an escort. They will live the rest of their lives hoping their future husband or one of his friends does not accidentally stumble accross of what they have done.

Now, there is no doubt she has love for you. But since you cannot reverse time and you were not there, you will never know it all and have to accept that if you want to reconcile. Even if she was a willing participant you will never know for sure and must overcome that. How you can move back to the same neighborhood is or would be amazing to me.

Lastly Hudson, be very careful if you choose a therapist. It is NOT a quantitative science, but rather a subjective science, and just as there are differing opinions on your thread, if you tell this story to ten therapist you will probably four or five differing opinions. You might get told just to "get over it" and stop talkin g about it. How will that feel.??? 

Yours is a very tough "grey" area situation. Do what you feel you need to but you owe no one here apologies nor do you need to defend your thought and choices. Its your ball, your life, and you do whatever you can live with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OR -



hudson said:


> The main reasoning that I was given re: the neighbour was that it is a very good area with a good school district, close to everything and we had a good deal on our home. She told me that she didn't know he lived there until after we had moved in and she didn't want to move again because of the reasons above and that he has never recognized her. As well she said that it makes her uncomfortable. It doesn't make her uncomfortable enough to move, which is incomprehensible to me. _I'd rather be without a pot to piss in than live there. There are many other good areas to live in, that cannot be the only reason she wants to stay there. She did not live there until we moved in together._
> 
> Playing devils advocate. Would you do it for your son though? look I agree with you, you are right to be concerned about it. How often does she see the guy, is it like he is across street and they have never talked? How did you find out he was one of the guys? This one is just strange.
> 
> ...


Finally if you think I am one of these love conquers all kind of persons just read some of my posts here. I am just as hard usually as the last guy. And there are some definite red flags. I think she is screwed up, but you love the boy, and you still love her. Be honest you posted her because YOU want to try.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

Playing devils advocate. Would you do it for your son though? look I agree with you, you are right to be concerned about it. How often does she see the guy, is it like he is across street and they have never talked? How did you find out he was one of the guys? This one is just strange.

If what she told me was correct, she has never spoken to him. She told me that he has never made any acknowledgement that he recognizes her and she avoids going by his house. Our block is cut in half by another road, we are on one half he is on the other and she won't go on that half or let our son go on that half. I was oblivious about it until she told me [after this all came to light]. I asked her if other men had copies of the videos and that is how that glorious tidbit of information came up. I'd like to beat the sh** out of him but that is beside the point. If we get back together, sure as sh**, there is no way we are staying in that area. 

You need to say this. Sounds like I know more about this then you do just from reading her posts. The posters where pretty harsh with her. My take is she had an incredibly hard life that led her to this path, and that still affects some of her decision making. That will probably be a fact of life if you end up with her no doubt. It's good that you didn't read it though. If you feel you would be invading her privacy then that is honorable.

I expected posters to say some harsh things about me but not about her. I imagine she would have told the story in a way that appealed to her. Why were people being harsh towards her? Those are reasons that I don't want to read it, along with the reasoning of not wanting to invade her privacy. Nothing is private on the internet, mind you. I read about 4 lines before closing it. If she wanted me to know whatever is written there she would have told me, that is not how I want to learn it. I've had enough of learning important information from a 3rd party. 

You haven't read much on these boards have you? Yeah in fact I just posted a long diatribe with the exact same thoughts, staying if you need a machine to tell if your SO is telling you the truth you should just let them go. So the answer is, remarkably all the time. I didn't know that to I stumbled onto these boards about a year ago. I couldn't imagine it. Here is the thing, we are not talking about cheating, as far as way know she has never openly betrayed you. Hers was a lie of omission, serious but I think for me, and it sounds like for you because of the extenuating circumstances I might be able to get over it. However I would need some proof. That is were the poly comes in. You get 3 questions as I understand it. Thing is you can't even verify the truth yet because you don't have the full story. 

I haven't read much on these boards. The website that I do use regularly, and didn't want to use my account to post on, I've never seen a polygraph mentioned. Mind you, I have not frequented infidelity boards as I haven't had the need thankfully. It is such an extreme to go to and it doesn't resonate well with me. Perhaps I need more time to think it over. 

You are taking a huge risk, say she dies in a car accident. Then what? Scummy ex gets custody. You have absolutely no recourse as far as the law is concerned. You love this kid, and he needs you. At least know the deal, right now you really have nothing. 

In the scenario that she passed away custody would go to the XBF's parents, who are required to supervise every visit their son has with our son. This is a reason why I want my X to do everything in her power to protect our son. I don't care about her pride or reputation, protect your son. She could have a DNA test, which is something she has never done, and if negative she could fight to have the XBF's rights terminated. That has been confirmed by two lawyers. He plays almost no role in the child's life. It's not guaranteed but there is a chance. I would jump at that chance if it were up to me and I wouldn't need to think twice about adopting him if it were an option.

OK look you sound like kind of a young guy. You need to get over this ****! Period. There are plenty of very intelligent successful people who have gone to counseling. This kind of crap is bigger then one person. You need to man up and think about it. It doesn't make you weak, it's like training to help you succeed emotionally. Your thinking here is wrong. Now you need the right one, but a good one can really help. What I was talking about was you going and talking to her therapist. They will know the story from a clinical perspective. Now she will have to agree and it will be hard for her but she has to suck it up too. 

I'm in my early 30's. I don't have anything against therapists. I don't know what my hangup is with seeing one but there is one there. That is my hangup to deal with. Even with her permission, can a therapist talk about a patient? That feels like more of a breech of privacy than reading her thoughts. If that's what we have to do to get over this hurdle than so be it. I've allowed her so much privacy and benefit of the doubt, maybe it's time that stops. I don't know how she would feel about me talking to her therapist about her. I could approach the subject and find out how she feels about it. She has said she would do anything. 

Over all though if you are going to pursue something at all with this woman you are gonna need expert help. You both are. Lets assume for a moment her story, which you don't even know to the full extent I bet, is true, then it is one of the worst I have ever heard. Again I don't know why she would lie about that on a message board. I do not think that the screwed up stuff that happened to her was her choice, I do think it could have messed her up and that is what I would be worried about. I don't think this woman wants or wanted the life of a porn star. 

Based on some things that were written here, such as her XBF being 6 years her senior, I was given the impression that she lied or twisted the truth to roll in her favour. You are right though, there is no reason for her to lie on a "anonymous" message board. She isn't the attention seeking or validating type. She has always been very private [now I know why] and has never frequented message boards or forums that I know of.

I don't doubt that she is going to have problems to deal with for the rest of her life, if what she says is accurate. That wouldn't be a deciding factor of our relationship in itself. Many people have problems and expecting someone perfect is ridiculous. She didn't have to hide it and she shouldn't have felt like she did have to hide it. I would rather know how to help her than walk through life oblivious to what she is going through and make her life harder. I'm sure I've said or done things that have not sat well with her but she "couldn't" tell me. I would like to know the full scope of the problems we'd be dealing with, and that is something I should have been allowed before agreeing to marry. The problems are not necessarily a deal breaker but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't scare me because of the affect those problems could have on us.

I think that part of you thinks that. But then you don't know the full story and you haven't talked to a professional. You are thinking about all this stuff in a kind of ****s and ho's kind of way. To be blunt. You are not thinking about it like, this woman at a very young age was exposed to tons of perverted sex while she was just going through puberty and her innocence should have been protected. She was never presented with a healthy idea of what sex was so she made some very unhealthy choices because of that. She happened to end up with a guy who you already know is an abusive creep. He basically abused you by showing you that video. Creeps like that guy go for vulnerable girls. Her childhood made her vulnerable and he used her for sex and later on to get drugs from others, he prostituted her. We are not talking about the middle class girl who goes away to collage and jumps from guy to guy now because she thinks she is liberated. That wouldn't be my cup of tea as well. 

Something that I get hung up on is why didn't she leave him if it was that bad, or tell someone, call the police, anything. She wouldn't answer that question either. I am not trying to victim-blame, I know a woman is never to be blamed for rape. I understand when a woman is raped and she doesn't report it and I don't expect her to get away from the rapist during the rape. Rape isn't the woman's fault, I know that. My X though, she went along with it for all of her teenage years. She made the decision to go to the XBF's house, or whoever else's house every day. I also get hung up on the point of prostitution. Even given the circumstances it is something that I have trouble getting past. It is such a dirty word and having that association with her is hard. Her XBF is a druggie, she used as well and it would have been drugs that were payment. Prior to me learning of this she said she experimented with drugs a few times and left it at that. After this came to light she said she used quite often to escape. The story is always changing. Her XBF may have prostituted her to score his own drugs, but did she do it for herself as well. Wrapping my head around it has clearly been difficult for me.

What if she meets a guy and he wants to be the step-father. What if she gets cancer. You need to start thinking long term here, your short term thinking just reacting is leaving you vulnerable. Through this whole thing you have continually just reacted. Until you posted here you have been reacting on emotions, you need to settle down and start to use some strategy. You need to really asses what your situation is. You were incredibly hurt, I get that. No one should have to see what you saw. So you were dealing with all these emotions. Ok but you have kind of gained control of that so now you need to really start thinking about life, not life a month from now, life 4 years from now. About being a father, what kind of man you are going to be. I know you see this kid as your son, but your ex gets a job somewhere and she is not going to be hitched to you for instance. And frankly it's a lot to ask of anyone. She is going to weigh if you in his life is as important as say affording to send him to collage. Especially if you are married with kids of your own. 

Those are things that I fear. I know that I have no rights to him and if she wants me out, I'm out. My son is something that wants to make me fight harder to reconcile. We have not been apart that long and haven't had time to move on so that factors into this, but I cannot see myself with a woman other than her. I know that could change. I've gone out with other women, and done some things that my X wouldn't be happy about. I still see my future with her. 

I do not handle crisis well, that has been made very obvious. I'm not perfect. 

One other thing I would like to point out. This is incredibly hard for her because she still loves you, and you were the one decent man she ever had in her life, you can tell the agony in her posts. Yet she has put the needs of her child an your love for each other above her pain. That shows some character right there. Just saying.

She has been incredibly gracious in regards to our son. I know that and I respect that. I can tell that it's very hard for her. Perhaps it would be easier for her if I made the choice end both relationships, and I think about that a lot - if I should do it for her. Sacrifice for her. I don't know what is healthier for my son, having both parents or having a happy mom and losing a dad. In this area our son has always come first and that makes the rest confusing because she does things that do not put his best interests first. Such as not doing everything possible to get her XBF out of his life or living near someone who raped her. I wish she were more consistent, maybe then I could wrap my head around this more easily.


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## laura8 (Feb 17, 2017)

DUDE, dump her! What are you waiting around for? You are out seeing new women, who you have a better time with. She is sitting at home moping that she couldn't manipulate you into staying. She is an extremely promiscuous woman, which isn't bad in itself but it is bad when she lies about it and uses gang rape to cover it up. She uses drugs and doesn't care about the child. She allows the child to hang around druggies and if her story is correct, rapists and pedophiles. What do you seen in her? There is no prize! 

She didn't even like having sex with you, she said that in her own thread! She thought you were boring in bed, unsatisfying, no pleasure aka too small, and she thinks about gang bangs while she screws you. She wants to go back to that lifestyle! She probably already has. She is living next door to one of her f*ck buddies and likely has taken him up on his offers to bang. She can only orgasm if she is double stuffed, that says enough. 

Even if she is telling the truth, which I doubt, do you really want to be with a woman like that? Someone who has always been seen as nothing more than a sex object by every man in her life? That will take over your thinking of her as well. 

Run. Keep banging new women and RUN from this crazy one. 

She has a more recent post that wasn't locked. The previous one was locked by admins because there were too many sl*t comments. That's how most people view her, that's not someone you want to marry.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@hudson 

Common man.... I don't care what her story is. You find out your finance was in a gang bang you bail hard!!!

Nothing good will come of this for you. Absolutely nothing. Either:

A) She's into gang bangs. Yeeeaaahhhh, not marriage material.

B) She was coerced into it. Which means she's gonna be screwed up forever.

Why would you choose to marry into this disaster rather than find another person?!?

RUN.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hudson said:


> There is no winning in a situation like this. I can't please everyone, that's for sure. Each person is going to have a different take or walk away with a different impression.
> 
> I don't want to sweep it under the rug, and I also don't want to throw my hands up and walk away. I wish we could sit down and talk without her becoming a blubbering mess, and that she could talk openly with me without hiding anything. She has withheld enough information from me and has made enough decisions over what I can and cannot handle. We are not going to get anywhere if we can't talk about it. She is becoming less and less willing to talk about it because she doesn't see a point anymore. She is under the impression that there is zero chance we will ever get back together, which is my fault. I can't be near her, look at her or touch her without it hurting. If I spend too much time physically with her I fear that I would never leave and sweep it under the rug.
> 
> ...


Whether she likes the idea of a third party being involved is irrelevant. if you think it will be better for you both not to have that face to face contact so that you can both think, heal and move on, then do it. Of course she wont like it, she wants to be able to influence you. Tears can be very manipulative. You will need to be firm about this in my opinion. Just say that its better for you as well as her to make this step for now. That you need time when you don't meet face to face so that you can think and make a decision. 

What has to happen for you to either end it or go back?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I didn't read SI and I won't. I am no martyr. I have no idea why this thread keeps going like the energizer bunny. Well except fir the kid which is unfortunate but isn't your problem and will likely be either rubar by 18 or completely clear of mom.

You are delusional if you believe you can save this boy or have a "real" wife. I totally understand your delusion - you only recently had your world turned upside down - but you are delusional none the less.

My BIL adopted a kid and provided an amazing christian, well off, loving life. He's early 20's now, on his own after getting kicked out of every possible situation, got a girl pregnant, and is on his latest "last chance". He's a really nice, genuine kid, but he probably has fetal alcohol syndrome and a low IQ. Which, statistically, means prison in the long run (lack of full frontal lobe development during pregnancy resulting in poor executive function - the ability to plan or see consequences).

Maybe the kid isn't completely fked up - IDK. All I know is you are hanging onto a dead relationship based on an emotional response to the kid and the weeping of a women whose past has caught up with her.

Not my life not my path. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Well the last 5 posts or so you got a real good idea of what I was talking about how people were giving her the once over. Look if you think a person who's father abuses her and who is repeatedly rapped from the age of 14 and then groomed to be a prostitute by her piece of **** boyfriend is a irredeemable ***** then by all means leave her alone. She needs a much better person then that. 

Interesting that most of the post from these people have no more then 3 posts.

Notice how the same posters basically feel the same way about the kid too. To them they are both irredeemable trash. I think would rather know your ex.

By the way I have no problem with people thinking she is a risk. She is a risk. She is still a human being not garbage.


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## matyr (Feb 18, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Well the last 5 posts or so you got a real good idea of what I was talking about how people were giving her the once over. Look if you think a person who's father abuses her and who is repeatedly rapped from the age of 14 and then groomed to be a prostitute by her piece of **** boyfriend is a irredeemable ***** then by all means leave her alone. She needs a much better person then that.
> 
> Interesting that most of the post from these people have no more then 3 posts.
> 
> ...


I for one frequent LS but not this site. 

Hudson's ex _said_ she was raped. She lied about other things what makes you think that is not a lie as well? What makes you think what she said about her family life was true? She seems to always have a cover up lie at hand, ready to use. At the end of the day she made her choices and she has to live with them. Least she can do is own up to them. 

She was linked to this thread. Seeing the opinions may do her some good and open her eyes. Or get some communication going between the two of them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Notice you don't say one thing about the kid's welfare.

You have no idea she is lying. You know just as much as I do. I told OP to do research, get a poly and be very careful if he wants to continue a relationship for him and the kids sake. You told him to throw her and the kid away like garbage. I stand by my saying I would rather know her then you. Go back to LS, you belong there.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

So 5 is the magic number for sex partners before you move into fallen woman territory? I had 19 girls so I must be a male tramp.


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## matyr (Feb 18, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Notice you don't say one thing about the kid's welfare.
> 
> You have no idea she is lying. You know just as much as I do. I told OP to do research, get a poly and be very careful if he wants to continue a relationship for him and the kids sake. You told him to throw her and the kid away like garbage. I stand by my saying I would rather know her then you. Go back to LS, you belong there.


The kid is a lost cause. He is either a gang bang baby or rape baby. He was born to a druggie, teenage mother. His father:

A) Doesn't know he exists because his mother slept around too much and has no idea who he is

B) Knows he exists but doesn't want any part of his life because of the way he was conceived 

C) Is actually the ex who will continue to go in and out of the child's life. 

He watches his mother manipulate and abuse situations. He will likely be a compulsive liar with no boundaries, just like mommy. The only father-figure he has in his life is a transplanted southern hick with extreme values and a doormat tendency. 

Kid is screwed. Nothing OP can do is going to change that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a moderator:

It appears the cross posting with links on LS has drawn in some new posters. 

Many posts crossed over from poor taste into outright hateful commentary. It stops now. Any further infractions will result in loss of posting privileges.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

And that is why I don't read or post on LS.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

sokillme said:


> And that is why I don't read or post on LS.


They just deleted any references to this thread or "hateful commentary" too...

The fact of the matter is that his was-to-be wife didn't enjoy having sex with him and has repeatedly lied about her past. She could settle the matter over who the father is by just taking a simple DNA-test. The man who's now, legally, the father has a, from what i gather, track record of drug addiction, risky sexual (no condoms or birth control) and criminal behaviour. He even tried to ram this woman with his car! Why won't she do the test to eventually get rid of this "dad" from the son's and her own (and the OP's) life? How could she even be okay with being near him when she can settle the matter once and for all? It's very weird.

It's up to the OP to decide for himself but I can imagine it's hard to trust her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

heyyo said:


> They just deleted any references to this thread or "hateful commentary" too...
> 
> The fact of the matter is that his was-to-be wife didn't enjoy having sex with him and has repeatedly lied about her past. She could settle the matter over who the father is by just taking a simple DNA-test. The man who's now, legally, the father has a, from what i gather, track record of drug addiction, risky sexual (no condoms or birth control) and criminal behaviour. He even tried to ram this woman with his car! Why won't she do the test to eventually get rid of this "dad" from the son's and her own (and the OP's) life? How could she even be okay with being near him when she can settle the matter once and for all? It's very weird.
> 
> It's up to the OP to decide for himself but I can imagine it's hard to trust her.


I find it "shocking" just "SHOCKING" that someone who was repeatedly rapped and prostituted in her teen years didn't love to have sex!! /s

I doubt she would love to have sex with anyone. Her feelings about sex are all screwed up, she even says it in her post. Why are they screwed up because her father was a rapist and she was groomed by a boyfriend who has a "track record of drug addiction, risky sexual (no condoms or birth control) and criminal behavior. He even tried to ram this woman with his car!" Who repeatedly raped her and when he got tired of her pimped her to his friends for drugs. 

Meanwhile while this is all going on she is going through puberty and discovering sex, her body still responds to stimulus but it is a perverted form of what sex it. This is basically the only kind of sex she knows up until this point. No wonder she has all kinds of issues with it. I really don't think it has anything to do with OP's prowess, like you and some of the other misguided posters at LS who don't know the first thing about human sexuality. 

Do you understand it is a known fact that woman can experience arousal during rape. Do you think they want to that, does that make them *****s (ho's) because the do? Or do you think maybe it is the body's response to stimulus like say an iris responds to light. Now how do you think that screws with the mind of a 15 year old girl who is just learning about sex, her body, and her first experience was with a guy who was repeatedly raping her? This being the only guy to pay attention to her. 

You can call her a *****, I think she is incredibly brave for getting away from the only thing she ever known her whole social circle because she had a child and loved him. This gives me hope for her. 

No doubt and it should be said if he continues with this woman sex will be a complicated part of their relationship. Now he knows that she was basically dealing with lots of crap when they have sex because of her past. It really a shame he had to fine out about that so bluntly from a poster on a message board. That S is hard. Still doesn't mean he isn't good in bed, or that she only likes kinky sex as you are trying to imply. It means that when most people with healthy backgrounds develop a healthy relationship with their sexuality, in her case she was being exploited. 

Maybe the DNA test isn't a priority because she genuinely knows he is the father and she knows it's a waste of time. OP thinks there may be a question, but may she knows because of who she had sex with during that time. Or maybe she is scared. Or maybe she doesn't have hope that anything good will come out of it either way and the idea brings back too much pain. Maybe she doesn't want to find out that she has no idea who the father of her kid is at all because all she will find out is it's not this guy. That my just reinforce her bad feelings about her self. No doubt there are a lot of issues with this woman and this stuff.

I have not given this women a pass but I have sympathy for her because this all started when she was 14 and ended when she was 18. Most people at that age are graduating from Pokemon to Justin Bieber, she was repeatedly being raped, her mother died and she was being pimped out and filmed by a bunch of drug addicts. Give the woman just a little bit of sympathy. She is not a 30 year old prostitute sleeping her way through collage. If you believer he story which I do then she was a product of a sexually abusive family environment. She had the fortitude to get out of it. And she has repeatedly shown she will put her son's best interests over her own. She is not as protective of herself and makes some very poor decisions in that respect such as living next door to this guy. 

My advice to him was learn about childhood sexual abuse and the kind of damage it does. How it affects decision making, how you can recover from it. What are your prospects of having a healthy relationship with someone like this. Ask to go with her to her therapist with her so she can tell her story and a professional psychologist can corroborate some of it. By then he should have studied this kind of stuff and have some idea how works. Then have her take a poly to make sure she is telling the truth now. She has lied in the past and that is a big deal, though I think some of the reactions on here at least show her motive. Of course someone who has done what she did and is ashamed of it doesn't want to volunteer it. She hasn't cheated on him though. Presumably this is the only thing she has lied about. Not if it's not then maybe she is just way too far gone. 

After all that if he thinks like me that she was an abused teenager and not a promiscuous ho as you guys do, then go very slow if he wants. 

He loves the kid and he still has feelings for her. This is his best hope to have permanent access to the kid. Right now if anything happened the kid is lost. All of this would be on the contention that the would get some sort of parental rights to the kid, that would be a priority of both of them. He asked if there was anyway to come back from this. So I gave him the only way I would consider if I was in the incredibly hard position he is in. 

It's a hell of a risk yes, but that's life. Life is hard, not everyone gets the perfect story, you make the best of it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Well the last 5 posts or so you got a real good idea of what I was talking about how people were giving her the once over. Look if you think a person who's father abuses her and who is repeatedly rapped from the age of 14 and then groomed to be a prostitute by her piece of **** boyfriend is a irredeemable ***** then by all means leave her alone. She needs a much better person then that.
> 
> Interesting that most of the post from these people have no more then 3 posts.
> 
> ...


I thought she said that her father had abused her mum not her?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I thought she said that her father had abused her mum not her?


Raping your mom in front of you is abuse wouldn't you say?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

If the topic on the other site is the EX of hudson (OP) - then he needs to educate himself. I am still in disagreement of WHAT he is doing. I understand the shock, but his attitude on how to deal with this is cruel.

So Hudson, read this: https://www.rainn.org/articles/adult-survivors-child-sexual-abuse

Then read this: https://www.rainn.org/articles/how-respond-survivor

It's about adult survivors of child sexual abuse. It's a quick read and if you want to learn more - there is more info on that site.

I too, as a male boy was sexually molested. I didn't tell anyone about it - EVER... until I told my wife. Then I started telling some others years later and I'm saying it here. It's not something that likes to be shared. But hey, on this website - you don't know me and nobody knows who you are.

Also, that is *HER SON*! NOT YOUR SON! You either get your own act together, be a man and deal with your own insecurities - and try to do something with this relationships. GO to counseling with this woman.
OR extract yourself from HER life & *HER* SON'S. Tell her to remove YOU info from HER SON'S school. Delete her contact info, move away, don't call her, don't see them. Don't SEE HIM. At the most, see him one more time and have the balls to tell him that YOU are the problem and cannot see him or his mother anymore. Maybe pre-pay a therapist to see him for a year.

My wife cheated on me last year, the two months worth of time that she was kicked out and *OUR* two-year-old son didn't see her. Hurt him, he still has attachment issues with mom, even thou we've been back together for 8 months and doing very well.

There is NO MIDDLE ground. *HER* son is part of the package. You don't get one without the other. Personally, I don't think you're ready to be a father anyway.

Option A : You write a letter (or text) to your ex-F that you want to talk for a few hours - just the two of you, so she has someone babysit. You apologize for being childish and discuss if it's possible for both of you to work your mess out. And that THERAPY is a requirement. You go from there - ONLY if you want the package.

Option B : You text her that you will no longer bother her or her son. Admit that you cannot deal with her past. Refer to above options, as telling him "goodbye - don't blame your mother" is the best thing you can do for that boy.

Option C : There is no other options.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Who is laura8, who just joined to post to this specific thread about the other site? And statements she has made are taken out of context. Maybe a friend that is an enemy to the relationship?

hudson (the OP) He talks about his conflicted feelings but since November when the video was shown to him, he has NEVER sat down and talked to this woman about this situation, who is supposed to be the love of his life. He just took the word of a junkie ex-BF from about 10 years ago, saw a few minutes of video - or who knows, maybe the whole thing and that was that.

How are you supposed to handle marriage IF YOU CANNOT EVEN TALK?! Communication is the #1 cause of divorce.

Looking at the recent posts on LS that Laura8 pointed out and a quick re-review of the first thread and reading the new thread.... I am 99.99% certain that the woman on the other site *IS* hudson's ex-F. Their stories match (what are the odds?): the timing, sex-abuse, video, her child, the neighbor and that hudson (her ex-f) is only seeing the kid, has blocked him from leaving - trying to talk to him.
The neighbor situation is properly explained by another poster there. "He remembers her, but he wants to forget HER - since she was underaged / he's married with a few kids now". Hell, the wife and I just moved and it turned out to be very close to where her AF used to live. I am aware of it, I don't give a damn because its just a building - and *I'm only thinking about it now* because of the context with hudson's ex-F.

hudson is not willing to TALK to his ex-F, that he is conflicted with - yet, is dating other women. Asking for advice, but won't go to the other site to confirm her story. (afraid?) There are two choices that I already pointed out: "Get out of limbo and get HER out of limbo." Leave or Stay.

Because of this and what Laura8 said, I'm going to post parts of what the ex-F on LS has said. I think people here are not seeing the full context. This is a small part of only what ex-F said over a period of 2 months:



> The guy that I had sex with that lives near me, I know I should have told my fiance about that. I couldn't do it, and it always made me nervous. I don't think he ever recognized me, honestly, and he appears to be married with kids. He was 5-6 years older. I felt like telling my fiance about that would open the floodgates. He said he didn't want to know about my sexual past, so I didn't want to tell him. I wasn't having group sex every day... I know who my sons biological dad is


If she was 14 and he was 20 - that could still get him put in jail for statutory rape. So he avoids her. She avoids him. People can do that.



> Very "vanilla" is the term I've heard. Missionary almost all the time. *I loved it, honestly.* I know a lot of people wouldn't but I did. I wouldn't have changed it for the world.* It was the complete opposite of what I was use to and I never wanted it to change. I still don'*t.


A 19 yr old woman I dated for 6 months when I was in my early 30s, she was into some kinky BDSM stuff - some beyond my tastes back then. She was into things I wasn't and still not. But also, I desired more intimacy that she couldn't do. I still know her today, she married with a kid today. I talked about sex life-styles not too long ago and she said "she isn't into much of that she used to do. Some guys abused her before and after me. She is quite happy to have plain vanilla sex with her husband. No oral for either of them, he's not into giving or receiving. I can vouch that she was like that back then, which was an incompatibly issue for me. I like to give.  But point is, she is quite happy with being in love with her husband's sexual style as it matches hers.

The ex-F woman who posted this... was in love with having sex with someone who didn't view her as a THING to put their penis into. That is what LOVE is about, right?



> The only way I've been able to orgasm from sex was by doing things that I don't want to do ever again.
> 
> I still have to remind myself that sex isn't an obligation and it should be enjoyed. *I have to remind myself not to feel gross when my ex-fiance would touch me and to stay present during sex.* It took a long time and a lot of work with my therapist to stop the dissociation feelings. I don't want to go back there. It instantly pulls me back to those moments.
> 
> It didn't really bother my fiance that much. When we first started having sex it did a bit but he got over it.* It was still enjoyable and felt good, the orgasm wasn't a must.* I suppose I made sex more for him. All I cared about was that is was good for him, I just liked being close to him. He was willing to try other things, like oral, even though it was uncomfortable for him. At the end of the day, it wasn't worth doing something that he was uncomfortable with - and him being uncomfortable made me uncomfortable.* I just wanted to be close to him, I didn't care about the rest of it.*


This part of a post also doesn't match what laura had said. 
She wants to be CLOSE to this man who she is in love with. That she had to open herself up to her fiancee, and not feel GROSS about herself - that his touch was from a caring person.
She posted this text long before the thread here ever started. 

As I posted above to the RAINN website: after severe sexual abuse - normal loving sex is a challenge. It's something she can get some help by going to a sex therapist, hopefully. I myself have been with at least two women who couldn't have orgasms. They enjoyed the sex, even rather kinky stuff... and one was sexual and sensual. But they couldn't hit the big O.  

The ex-F woman has issues, she can get help and some do learn to "let go". She isn't happy about it and its a wiring issue in her head - that *IF* she and her ex-f were to go to therapy together, could help in her recovery.



> I've never been into sex with multiple partners, or half the other things I did. _I grew up watching my dad beat and rape my mom, in front of me._ I hid in closets so I didn't have to see and he'd pull me out and tell me to watch so I would "learn a woman's role". A lot of it I don't remember because I blocked it out. As hard as I try to forget, seeing that video brings it all back. *Thinking about things I've done, makes me sick. *I never wanted to be a woman with a lot of sexual partners, even now I don't. Outside of who I had sex with in that relationship, and my ex-fiance, I have never gone looking for sex.
> 
> I got out, and you know what... I was lucky to get out because of lot of people don't. So many wind up being strippers or prostitutes. I got therapy, years and years of it. I came out on the other side, but I didn't even know there was another side. _I have spent far more years believing sexual abuse is normal, than years knowing it is not._ That is something you cannot comprehend. If my ex-fiance knew, he would always be wondering what will trigger me or bother me, what I'm thinking. It's easier for me if it was never a thought for him. *It was a long, painful, hard road to close that chapter of my life, and I wanted to leave it closed*.
> 
> ...


The ex-F woman on the other site, NEVER said her fiance was "boring in bed, unsatisfying, no pleasure aka too small" Not even close! And never a word about penis size. Could Laura be the exBF of hudson's ex-F? Why make up things that were NOT said? Projection? 

You can have a big penis and still be a lousy lay. And a woman that just lays there, is also not fun (to me). Everything that laura has said about this woman, wanting gang-bangs, life-style and "double-stuffed", **WAS NEVER SAID** as quoted above.

So, the only thing she omitted was her past sexual abuse as a teenage girl by several boys. Her ex-f didn't want to know and told her so. Which I feel that is childish of ANY person anyway. Otherwise, no cheating, no lying. She didn't want to tell you something about her past that would upset her possible future husband because he couldn't handle it and proved it so.

One man or a hundred men, as long as she doesn't have STDs and you both are in love, what difference does it make? You can get STDs from your very first sex act with another person.

Insecure that SHE is more sexually experienced? Yeah, somewhat - but that was a teenage girl who was treated as an object. Not a human being who has feelings THEN and has feelings NOW. Geez, my wife has had lingering insecurities with my sexual experiences. Typing this now and thinking about it. I'm going to tell her again how much I think she is sexy and how I am so attracted to her as a woman, my wife, mother of our son - that she is the one out of all those other women, that I love making love too and never loved anyone as much as I love her. I *do* love making love with my wife and to do anything she wants that she enjoys.


Seriously hudson. If this woman is your ex-F. Past the inital shock, you are in the wrong. You have a right to break it off with her and you need to break everything off then. But you are blaming her past which was out of her control, on the present issues. If that video was made 6 months ago - then dump her like a hot potato. Young women, teenagers are impressionable. They are easily manipulated into do things they DO NOT want to do or would not do if they were adults. That is why sexual predators are able to do what they do. I know of a 15yr old girl who thought her 30yr old boyfriend who got her pregnant was "Love" - I was so glad to watch the cops drag him away in handcuffs. Today, she is 23 years old, her child taken away from her forver by the state, got into drugs, hung around other bad-boys and is still in prison since the age of 19.

Your ex-F (if the same woman), is a strong woman, a much smarter woman who had the sense to change her life when she gave birth HER son. - her past did shape who she is today. *That is the woman you "fell in love with".*

She deserves someone better. Can you be a better man? If not, move on and find someone else that fits your requirements.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Raping your mom in front of you is abuse wouldn't you say?


Maybe in the bedroom?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Who is laura8, who just joined to post to this specific thread about the other site? And statements she has made are taken out of context. Maybe a friend that is an enemy to the relationship?
> 
> hudson (the OP) He talks about his conflicted feelings but since November when the video was shown to him, he has NEVER sat down and talked to this woman about this situation, who is supposed to be the love of his life. He just took the word of a junkie ex-BF from about 10 years ago, saw a few minutes of video - or who knows, maybe the whole thing and that was that.
> 
> ...


You need to read her other other thread, she did say that about her fiance.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

Some of the people here are really pathetic. What sane person feels the need to post such vile things about another human being, then make sure to leave the woman you are talking about a link so she will see it? If she wasn't "mentally unstable" then, she will be now. Thank god all links to this thread on hers were deleted, hopefully before she saw it. If the OP, hudson, saw those vile posts that could have made his mind up. Why would he think people were just trying to sabotage him? He could be long gone and their relationship over because someone needed to be an bully. 

If anyone actually took the time to read that thread, and participate in it, you would know all of that crap said was taken out of context or made up. Yes, there was "s**t shaming" going on in the other thread but if I remember correctly it was almost entirely limited to troll posts who made dozens of accounts just to bash her and a few other threads. The vast majority of people who participated in that thread did not view her as a "s**t", it is clear she is a victim of horrible life experiences. 

The woman who wrote that thread genuinely wants her ex (this OP) back. I'm not precisely sure why, I haven't seen many redeeming qualities, but she does. At no point did she say that she hates their sex life, unless you decide to do some word-twisting and deletion. And at no point did she say that she wants to go back to the lifestyle that she was forced into. I also don't recall her ever mentioning that SHE did drugs, only that her ex used her body to get drugs. At no point did she say she was friends with the "neighbour", she avoids him at all costs. He hasn't made any move towards her and that is probably why she feels okay living there. She mentioned a DNA test in her thread, and said something along the lines of being sure who the father was because she knows who she WAS RAPED by and she didn't want to deal with the stigma of not knowing who the father is. Not once did she say that she prefers abusive, rapey, group sex over loving, "vanilla" sex. In fact, she said the opposite, that she never wants to go back and loved her sex life with OP. 

If OP is intimidated because she has more "experience" than he does, well he just needs to get over that. If he's a racist bigot (mentioned in her thread that he doesn't like white/black interracial) and there was interracial RAPE that he is hung up on, well that is his hang up.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Man @hudson I have no idea why so many people want you to be a martyr and therapist and feel it's your obligation and you're a ****head for NOT taking this messed up person back into your life.

I think they're full of crap

YOU get to decide how you spend your life.

My dad was a shrink and he always said run. You have no obligation here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Man @hudson I have no idea why so many people want you to be a martyr and therapist and feel it's your obligation and you're a ****head for NOT taking this messed up person back into your life.
> 
> I think they're full of crap
> 
> ...


 Agreed.


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## Mike Kaiser (Feb 18, 2017)

I don't know where to start. I think you are making a huge mistake if you love this woman and let her go over this.

First of all the lying part that many here seem to focus on. I am a 48 year old man. I joined the US Army at 17 and while in Korea as a 17 and 18 year old boy, I had sex with more prostitutes than I can remember. I had a hell of a good time, I was not abused nor manipulated into it. Would I feel compelled to share this very personal chapter in my life with a woman I was dating now? Hell no!! None of her business. I was young. That was a very long time ago and it means nothing to my current t relationship. The problem here is that people reading this are giving me a pass because I am a man and when I did this I was a boy, but a woman who engages in risky sexual play is. ***** who can never be trusted. Double standard my friend.

Second and most important is romance. What ever happened to romance? I mean did Richard Geere care about all the men Julia Roberts had sex with? Or was he in love and did not care what she did before they met? If you are truly in love you will let this go. 

Everything in life is perspective. There are men out there who would love to see videos of the very young version of their wife having sex. They would truly get off on seeing the love of their life as their own porn star and feel great that "she picked me".

There are men out there who learned today that their wife had months or weeks to live from a terminal illness who would trade places with you in a heart beat. 

My point is, life is too short to sweat the small stuff and while this hurts and bothers you, this one is small stuff. If you love this woman, I mean really love her you would do anything for her. You would kill for her. You would endure pain for her. 

The question is, do you love her? If you do go grab her and tell her you love her. Tell her you don't care what she did before you met. Go get some counseling to get over your feelings and go tell her ex that you don't care what she did before you came along. That you love his ex and are going to marry her and take away the power that he has over you.

If you don't really love her than let her go, but tell her the truth. It's not because she is an unworthy ****, it's because you do not love her and never really did.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Who is laura8, who just joined to post to this specific thread about the other site? And statements she has made are taken out of context. Maybe a friend that is an enemy to the relationship?
> 
> hudson (the OP) He talks about his conflicted feelings but since November when the video was shown to him, he has NEVER sat down and talked to this woman about this situation, who is supposed to be the love of his life. He just took the word of a junkie ex-BF from about 10 years ago, saw a few minutes of video - or who knows, maybe the whole thing and that was that.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this post. Again we are not talking about an adult who goes of the ledge and starts participating in sex with many men. Or even someone in collage, who I would worry about. I often talk about if someone sees sex like a coffee date and you see it like a sacred trust that you probably shouldn't marry. This is not the case, it seems like she feels the same way as he does, she was just never given the opportunity to live that life. 

OP read the links learn about sex and sexual assault. Become an expert because you are going to need to be. 

Second, even beyond all the problems I always think it sad when people post about not having sexual chemistry like it's some static thing. If you don't have sexual chemistry WORK AT IT! Good spouses learn to know what the other is thinking, you can do that in bed too. Part of the problem is they have never been honest about what they are dealing with. Now if you have the honesty your sex life will improve. The challenge is to change this woman's idea of what sex is to give her orgasms in spite of all the **** she has been through. You do that and watch how she thinks of you. 

One other thing all the beta's on here judging her (who was a child) and you because you may pursue this again with her. I'm someone who believes strongly in Men having honor. Taking responsibly for themselves first but also for those who honestly need help from others, because there burden is too great. The is nothing more gd Alpha then that. A strong man has the strength to lift himself and others. If you overlook the obvious instinctual pain that you feel by seeing her as you did. If you learn about her situation and work to help heal her even if it doesn't work out. If you do that then you are on the supreme of the Alpha scale in my book. That take monumental honor. Don't let some frat boys tell you otherwise. Real men solve problems and elevate people. Real men suffer for the ones they love. 

Again assuming all this is real and not some elaborate ruse, I am not saying one way or the other because you need all the facts, not just her posts or ours. And it is a risk even those who want to change completely can fail. This is much harder then just moving on.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Man @hudson I have no idea why so many people want you to be a martyr and therapist and feel it's your obligation and you're a ****head for NOT taking this messed up person back into your life.
> 
> I think they're full of crap
> 
> ...


Who exactly called him a ****head? Are you actually reading the posts on here?

If you think anyone here said he has an obligation then I have to question your reading comprehension skills. Every post said it was a difficult choice and that he had no obligation.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Who exactly called him a ****head? Are you actually reading the posts on here?
> 
> If you think anyone here said he has an obligation then I have to question your reading comprehension skills. Every post said it was a difficult choice and that he had no obligation.




You haven't read the posts. They are saying HE has a hang up, blah blah blah

I simply call bull****.

Just because one person doesn't care about their partners sexual past doesn't mean everyone else should not care.

Many care a great deal - regardless of the reason for the sexual promiscuity.

Long long long posts explaining this or that to OP like he's supposed to agree with this crap. He's made his views plain. Those explanations of the views of OTHERS won't sway him.

His question has to do with living with the idea of leaving someone he loves, that's all. Nothing to do with anyone else's views of promiscuity etc. if you keep telling OP to change his values because "he's wrong" and "he has the problem" then you're calling him a ****head.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Mike Kaiser where did you get the idea that you'd get a pass for being promiscuous and sleeping with so many prostitutes just because you're a guy? I've never heard that here. Me - and many others who DIDN'T make the choice to be slvtty and promiscuous know the values we have and the decisions we made. These aren't accidents.

Yes I've had many slvtty guy friends - sure I like them and they're good guys but they get no pass from me. I would never want any woman I know to have s serious relationship with them if I knew they hid their past. In fact I'd be sure to bring it up if the woman was a friend.

Prisons are full of criminals who say the same thing - don't judge me for my past. I call bs - they can be "nice" people, but I wouldn't trust them near my property, family or friends - particularly without a warning and discussion about their past.

Decisions have consequences. We all get to decide who we want to be. If we change, that's fine, but have the integrity to own your past too.

The way someone interacts with others - sexually, in terms of lying, stealing, drinking, doing drugs, etc. - is very relevant in assessing character.

Read the pages of infidelity on TAM. It's full of BS who don't want to believe their S is who they actually are. I say open your eyes and see the other person and then you can decide if you have a match of values and character.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think its vital that we have no secrets from a person who we are going to marry and spend the rest of our lives with.
If a man lied to me about his many sexual partners, I would struggle to trust him again. Of course we should be honest about the past, for many of us sex is very important in a committed relationship/marriage, and any previous sex life is all part of that. 

Some people are not worried about how many people their partners have had sex with, for me and for hudson and others, its very important. If we are the sort of person who hasn't slept around, then it may well be a no no for us.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Man @hudson I have no idea why so many people want you to be a martyr and therapist and feel it's your obligation and you're a ****head for NOT taking this messed up person back into your life.
> 
> I think they're full of crap
> 
> ...


This "messed up person" was already in his life. She is the same person she was the day before he found out. The woman he proposed to. What if she had been raped after they were married? Does he still leave because she'd be "messed up"? OP proposed just days before dumping her. Till death do us part, unless you were raped.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> You need to read her other other thread, she did say that about her fiance.


You quoted my whole post. You are not specific. 

*WHAT* are you talking about? In the 2nd thread - it is only about her son. She says nothing bad about her ex-f. Actually, she never said anything insulting about him in any way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

luca said:


> This "messed up person" was already in his life. She is the same person she was the day before he found out. The woman he proposed to. What if she had been raped after they were married? Does he still leave because she'd be "messed up"? OP proposed just days before dumping her. Till death do us part, unless you were raped.


They are not married yet, only just engaged, and its best that he ends it if he feels that he can't deal with the fact that she had sex with multiple men(many at one time). Its a massive thing to get you head around, she should have told him earlier on. I think its the lies and secrecy that will have hurt the most.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> You quoted my whole post. You are not specific.
> 
> *WHAT* are you talking about? In the 2nd thread - it is only about her son. She says nothing bad about her ex-f. Actually, she never said anything insulting about him in any way.


That's not what I read.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@TheTruthHurts :
The only one who called the op, hudson a ****head, is you. You actually posted that, and now acting like others have said it.

Now does hudson have insecurities "hang-ups" - I believe so. That is my opinion and that of many others due to his own actions that he himself stated and the woman at the other site - which for the sake of easier composition and understanding, her name is "Gibrale" which I am very certain is the same person, and when I'm referring to her - will use her name.

My judgment of hudson is by his own words, Gibrale's posts only validated those opinions of him.

You are right, hudson does get to decide how to spend his life. But since he's on the fence of leaving this woman, without actually spending any time actually talking to her - *HE* is interfering with the life of a young mother and her 7-year-old son. That *IS NOT* his son. He has NO legal ties to the child, his actions are ABUSIVE to both of them and even himself. His justification for doing so *IS* childish and not that of a **MAN** who is secure with himself IMHO. My opinion of that was before I read the words of Gibrale.

I think he does need some help with a therapist to talk about and work on his expectations, his insecurities, and his bigotry. None of those are healthy for bringing up children. He should do that no matter what he does.

So lets jump back to the facts as presented by hudson himself and for which Gibrale story also matches his.
*1 - *He agreed to be in a relationship with this woman as friends then lovers. = YES.
*2 - *As a friend at first, was she obligated to tell him about her sexual history? = NO
*3 -* Did he tell her that he didn't want to know the sexual history of his ex-F? = YES.
*4 - *As humans, are we always 100% honest? NO. We all omit information as needed. "do these pants make me look fat?" You may think, "yeah - a little bit, but you look hot", but what comes out of your mouth is "No, they look great on you". Sorry, but reality is that people will bend the truth a bit. Women tend to not consider blowjobs as "sex" in refernce to the movie "Clerks". I tested this out on a female friend of mine and I think its fun & educational for people to try it out to. I asked her "do you count BJ's as sex?" She said "no". So I asked her to give me BJ. She said "no", so I said "but you said it wasn't sex". BTW, I wasn't expecting her to give me a BJ, but to point out that to men - ITS SEX. Anything that involves a sexual body part to be used = sex. Now, of the many women I had sex with, were most of them "relationships"? = NO. I had relationships with about 8 women in my life. The other 100+ are not relationships. And you are not in a "relationship" if they just raped you.

*5 - *Does his ex-F have the ability to go back in time, change her parents, change those who controlled her as a teenager? = NO
*6 - *Did hudson have a relationship with his ex-F's xBF? Not really, might have met him a few times - but otherwise, after 5+ years was pretty much nothing, then out of the blue this same low-life sends him a porno for the purpose of manipulation and hudson, fell for it like a fool. = YES.
*7 - *Did hudson sitdown with "his love" and spend 10mins, an hour, anything to hear her side of the story? = NO
*8 -* Did hudson's ex-F ever cheated on him while they were together. According to both people = NO.
*9 -* Has the ex-F tried to explain her side of the story? = YES
*10 -* The trauma of dealing her exBF is apparent. Hudon has stated that she would be depressed and emotional when she has to deal with him. = that guy has a nightmare for her. She *IS NOT and DID NOT* have fun.

Simple matter fact. hudson has his own ideas for a mate, and thought that such a person exists. They do not. He didn't want to know her past and told her. She was put into position to not tell him all the details that HE said he didn't want to know. He was already aware of some of the abuse she endured. She, trying to protect him - didn't want to burden him how much she was hurting.
If they were married and she was raped, would hudson have dumped her? Shamed her - as he **IS* *shaming her now? Sorry, but reality is this: hudson is shaming his ex-F because she was sexaully abused as a child. And unlike most people in that position, she.. SHE pulled herself out of her hell.

He's here for advice. He's on the fence but looking to jump ship. He needs to choose one or the other. If he's not going to see what he has done was wrong and make amends. Yes, he has rights to his shock and being upset about the video. But he is IN THE wrong to not talk to her about, and treat her like crap. It is punishment.

He needs to get completely OUT OF HER LIFE. NO CONTACT what-so-ever. Eventually someone is going to meet someone else and that poor boy will be more hurt. hudson is disrespecting that child by disrespecting his mother. If he cannot get over his "HANG UPS" or work on getting over it... then he needs to be gone from her life.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

I think my only question is have you been tested for stds?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> That's not what I read.


What did you read? I asked you to be specific. "That's not what I read" is meaningless.

Have you told any boyfriend or husband about every sexual act or thought that you experienced in your past? More men, than women have insecurities about sexual past.

If you (or any woman) had sex with a man 10 years in the past, it doesn't mean his guy germs / DNA are still in your body.

There are women who only had sex with her husband, that cheat on that husband later in the marriage. There are women who had sex with hundreds of men, who don't cheat on their husbands.

I had way past 100 sexual partners over my wife. Yet, I never cheated on her nor ever thought about cheating on her. Not even a revenge affair. What was he sexual number before I meet her? I don't actually know. I think its between 7 ~ 20. We are both STD free. She has told me about some of the people in her past as I have told her mine... but I never asked for a number. What difference does it really make? SEX and LOVE are not the same thing. I know some people want to think that way, but it isn't. That's not as bad as the idiotic logic that RAPE = LOVE since its sex. Or that "real rape doesn't create pregnancy" as if women can shut down rape sperm.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hifromme67 said:


> I think my only question is have you been tested for stds?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is that because hudson has been dating and possibly having sex with other women in the past 4 months or so?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Many care a great deal - regardless of the reason for the sexual promiscuity.
> 
> Long long long posts explaining this or that to OP like he's supposed to agree with this crap. He's made his views plain. Those explanations of the views of OTHERS won't sway him.
> 
> His question has to do with living with the idea of leaving someone he loves, that's all. Nothing to do with anyone else's views of promiscuity etc. if you keep telling OP to change his values because "he's wrong" and "he has the problem" then you're calling him a ****head.


He posted LONG LONG post about what happened and HE ASKED about reconciliation. He is inexperienced and/or blind to the situation because he put him there by NOT TALKING TO HER.

He isn't sure of his own plans, he stated that. So some of us are pointing OUT that he is avoiding the trying to resolve the problem.
He has two choices. Stay and FIX his issues and heal both of them. Or GO AWAY.
I only add that if he goes away, that he goes and fixes his issues.

If he truly loves her, he wouldn't be shaming her for being raped or witnessing rape for most of her childhood. So hopefully he will go to RAINN and learn something.

He does have a problem. He avoids communication. he choose to listen to the words of a druggie who he said, wasn't smart.

Changing values? Well, its generally healthy to learn how to GROW as a person. I used to have a very narrow view of what I would consider asking a woman for a date. That resulted in almost no dates. And just because a woman is for example "A religious Christian woman"... well, I've had just such a woman cheat on me on a date, in which I ran into her with another man AFTER the date was over, when she had told me she had to go home and get sleep for work the next day.

I don't put stock in self-righteous people. Just because someone labels themselves as Religious, conservative or morals doesn't mean they actually have morals, truthful or nice as many (not most) such people have shown to be quite evil.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

luca said:


> This "messed up person" was already in his life. She is the same person she was the day before he found out. The woman he proposed to. What if she had been raped after they were married? Does he still leave because she'd be "messed up"? OP proposed just days before dumping her. Till death do us part, unless you were raped.




Proposed under false pretense. No marriage; no death till us depart. 

Yes she was in his life and then he found out she was a liar, won't DNA test her kid, stays in proximity with someone she had group sex with, and on and on.

Yes she is totally messed up. He has no obligation to save her. She hid this stuff.

Why is that so hard to accept?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TaDor said:


> @TheTruthHurts :
> The only one who called the op, hudson a ****head, is you. You actually posted that, and now acting like others have said it.
> 
> Now does hudson have insecurities "hang-ups" - I believe so. That is my opinion and that of many others due to his own actions that he himself stated and the woman at the other site - which for the sake of easier composition and understanding, her name is "Gibrale" which I am very certain is the same person, and when I'm referring to her - will use her name.
> ...




I just think you're completely wrong. That's all.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Is that because hudson has been dating and possibly having sex with other women in the past 4 months or so?




No. Because his ex has been with multiple partners at a time. I'm also positive that they have been with multiple partners at one time or another or perhaps gay sex. You just never know. That's why I asked.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hifromme67 said:


> No. Because his ex has been with multiple partners at a time. I'm also positive that they have been with multiple partners at one time or another or perhaps gay sex. You just never know. That's why I asked.


The only thing that has been said that she was didn't discuss was when she was being sexually abused as a teenager. No STDs were brought up and also women are tested for that when pregnant.

The only one that is having some fun dating others... is hudson.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

hifromme67 said:


> No. Because his ex has been with multiple partners at a time. I'm also positive that they have been with multiple partners at one time or another or perhaps gay sex. You just never know. That's why I asked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Someone who has had sex with 20 men on separate occasions or 20 men all on the same day are exposed to the same amount of STD's. And who mentioned anything about "gay sex"? 

"Hudson" said earlier that he had STD tests done multiple times since they split. Which is fair enough, his ex admitted in her own post that condoms were never used. 7 years of unprotected rape, 5 of which years were with multiple partners, is a fair reason to be tested.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Proposed under false pretense.


Being raped is hardly a false pretense. She wasn't misrepresenting herself or trying to deceive anyone. He said he didn't want to know about it, she obliged. 



TaDor said:


> Is that because hudson has been dating and possibly having sex with other women in the past 4 months or so?


Unless "hudson" has done a total 180 from his ex's description of him I doubt he's been sexually involved with anyone.



> He is very conservative about sex. He has only had sex in serious relationships, he doesn't even kiss right away. He doesn't like black/white interracial relationship (I feel like that is an American thing). He is completely against "hooking up", pro waiting until marriage (and wished we had). He didn't want to live together until we were married, but did change his mind. No anal, always used condoms, no ejaculating anywhere but the condom or his hand, very rarely masturbated, no porn, he wasn't very comfortable with oral.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I just think you're completely wrong. That's all.


Based off of what? I debate the facts as presented by OP himself. The woman on the other site, matches his story.

You can also edit a quoted text.



TheTruthHurts said:


> Proposed under false pretense. No marriage; no death till us depart.
> 
> Yes she was in his life and then he found out she was a liar, won't DNA test her kid, stays in proximity with someone she had group sex with, and on and on.
> 
> ...


At the time of pregnancy, she was only having sex with one person. It would be stupid for my own wife to do a DNA test on our kid because she didn't have sex with others and he looks just like me.
If she is UNSURE if her exBF is the father, then the DNA test would be to her advantage as it would allow her to cut-off ties to him. She cannot force DNA tests on others who are long gone.

The OP said specifically that he didn't want to know many details of her sexual past. HE should grow and figure out that people do in fact ****. Sometimes its for fun, sometimes it is rape. A 15 year old girl being handed over to other boys for barter *IS NOT IN CONTROL*. She was *USED*. That kind of crap happens all the time and to a degree it even works with adults.

"Yeah baby... I love you. I love you. Just let me touch you a little bit... Just a a feel. I love you. You are my one and only. You'll do anything for me because you love me, right baby?"

Teen girls are EASY to manipulate, especially when one is from a broken family and looking for anything that seems like feelings from someone who cares.

And AS she has stated before and YOU have read: She didn't know that they moved next to one of her past rapists. She is ashamed and hid that. She did it for good reason as shown.
If the OP/ her ex-F was more of a man who could handle reality. She could have told him "Oh snap! we moved next to one of the guys who raped me, can we move?"

And rape is a rather hard thing to prove... and I have police officer friends that I asked if they could help. In the past few years, some female friends of mine were raped. Due to circumstances- they couldn't prove it. That *IS* today. hell, one college kid got off with a few months in jail for raping a woman next to a dumpster and had two other MEN catch him and tackle him down. Yet the jerk judge didn't want to ruin his life for a "2 minute mistake". So yeah, in this country and some others - women are shamed for being raped! You are blaming a 14 year old girl for the abuse that she saw no way out of. Why don't you go to rainn.org and get yourself educated on the trauma and hell that children of rape have gone through?

Get this, I'm a 46 year old man and I've spent almost 40 years with triggers that came and go that I never fully understood or believed until it went into over-drive in 2015. Yeah, I remember some of my first triggers when I was 7, that I didn't know how to tell others - my parents about it. So yeah, I understand somewhat of the pain that women went through.

She deserves a real man who isn't going to go sulk in a corner and shame her because she was raped for years by adults and teenagers for years.

He has no obligation to save her... yep, for the most part. So which case it comes down to options A and B.
Either grow a pair, educate himself, see if he has the capacity of compassion - get therapy and help her recover. Or B, get the hell out of her life 100%. She doesn't need his crap or abuse. The sooner he goes away, the sooner she can heal and find someone can actually listen to her and that she doesn't have to FEAR talking to.

Instead, he has spent about 4 months tormenting that woman, not talking to her, dating other women


> "I have been seeing new women and while I'm enjoying my time with them..."


But spending time with HER SON. He has no right to regard HER son as "HIS". The boy needs a REAL man to be his father.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@luca

I gather that he watched the whole video. If it was me, I would be mad at the exBF without watching the video or just a few seconds to see that if it was really her. So who knows what he really does on these dates.

Well, who knows what is really bugging him. He saw the video and decided that was that. So he should have gone to therapy a long time ago. But still, what was it? That it was a few boys and men having sex with a teenager? Was it the DP or was it the black guy that pushed him over the edge.

A white woman I know, who had broken up wth her black boyfriend told me this. A (white) man from her past said he would NOT ever want to have sex with her because she had relations with a black man. Even thou this same racist idiot has had sex with at least one black woman. That doesn't make sense?!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TaDor said:


> Based off of what? I debate the facts as presented by OP himself. The woman on the other site, matches his story.
> 
> You can also edit a quoted text.
> 
> ...




You don't know any of this. There were posts on another site and @hudson already said they aren't the truth. So you're going on and on like you know what you're talking about and you don't.

I doubt there was even rape


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You don't know any of this. There were posts on another site and @hudson already said they aren't the truth. So you're going on and on like you know what you're talking about and you don't.
> 
> I doubt there was even rape
> 
> ...


Except "hudson" didn't read the post on LS (or so he claims). He only went off the interpretations that were posted here, coincidentally those posts also included totally made up information. 

If there was no rape then why does she have a physical and mental reaction every time she has to see her ex-vf/baby daddy? You can't fake those reactions.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

TaDor said:


> @luca
> 
> Apparently, he watched the whole thing. If it was me, I woulf be mad at the exBF without watching the video or just a few seconds to see that if it was really her. So who knows what he really does on these dates.
> 
> ...


I missed the part where he watched the entire video. If he did, that's messed up. I wouldn't even have clicked on it, or would have closed it immediately. That's messed up if he could watch that. In his ex's thread I believe she said he was send more than one video, or they were merged together can't remember. That could have been a long video. Based off her description it was long enough the 4 men involved to take a turn and her to orgasm. With rape I imagine orgasm would take a long time to achieve, seeing as it's just stimulation based. If he watched all that then I'd have doubts about her belief of him. A very conservative non-porn watching man isn't going to watch his GF's "porno", especially when she is doing things that he is totally against. 

I kind of have a feeling that he is more upset by black man/men than the rest of it... And that is pathetic. I'm a guy and I really can't grasp why some are so hung up on not touching a woman once she's "gone black". The kid would be better without a racist dad/step dad/ex-step dad/whatever the F he is.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You haven't read the posts. They are saying HE has a hang up, blah blah blah
> 
> I simply call bull****.
> 
> ...


He titled this thread *Reconciling with fiancée*. No one is trying to push anything on him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

This thread has completely gone off the rails. You know that's the truth when *I* am saying it. It's also completely unfair to OP to judge him harsher then his ex has. For God's sake no one should have to be blindsided by seeing your fiance in what is basically an orgy movie. No one is going to just be like "OK let's talk" after having that sprung on you. Seriously your not helping by jumping down the man's throat. He has no prior experience with this kind of stuff. Quit judging him from your perspective now having had years to deal with your own experience. The fact that he is still here means something. Most would just react like some of the other posters, even some women on her who are calling her a ho. (I hate the fact that this stupid site wouldn't let me say ***** (rhymes with smore) and I can't bypass that do to the new rules. It is such a much more effective way of saying what the posters are calling her. Seriously we are all adults here but the site polices our words like children!)

Anyway it is also unfair to act like there is not some danger and even some loss by continuing a relationship. Most men who think like OP are going to suffer when they see and think of their wife the way he did. He will now have to live with that, even if it was of no fault of hers, or very minimal fault. The ex has said the same thing. If she has sympathy for him you should. Anyway that makes this damn hard for him. He is a victim in this too. The ******* ex boyfriend in a sense abused him as well.

Besides all that people like her have issues, that take a lifetime of work and you can't deny that. It would be much easier to marry someone who has had a stable mother/father upbringing obviously. This is the kind of decision that will affect the rest of his life. No one should judge him if it is something that he is thinking long and hard about. That doesn't make him a bad guy.

Also telling him to leave her alone is just wrong, his ex specifically wants him there because of her son, you have no right to go against her wishes. If she were here I bet she would say the same. Again you are not helping her by doing that. She wants him back.

Now you posters who are basically acting like this woman was a 20 year old collage student who decided to be a porn-star could really do with some more grace, especially you Christian ones. That is not the situation and you are willfully ignoring it and just projecting your reality because the kind of sex she was forced into makes you uncomfortable. I got no problem if you think this is too much to handle but acting like she was at 15-18 making the decisions of and adult is also terribly unfair. There is a reason why we have statutory rape laws in this country. No psychologist or educator would agree with your opinion it's frankly very poorly informed. It is scientifically proven that teenagers brains are not even fully developed. This is the reason there is a statute of limitations for most juvenile crime. That adding to the fact that she was 14 and from a complete sexual dysfunctional (at the very least) home means she deserves some mercy. I mean you don't even say she is lying here, you just think she is a ***** (the word that rhymes with snore). Some of you can do better then that. I don't think Jesus would call her that, or act like she was?

Finally the self-righteousness of both sides it really wasting time on here. Everyone could do with a little more empathy for everyone involved except for the disgusting ex boyfriend who is the real villain here. This is an incredibly hard situation for everyone, everyone has made bad mistakes but I believe everyone is trying to do the right thing. Lets try to help them all here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OK so if two 12-14 year olds have sex and carry on having sex who is to blame? They are both children, the same age, (as in this case), so why is the boy more responsible than the girl if it was consensual? 
Its probable that both had dysfunctional/possibly abusive families for them to be having a relationship and sex that young, so why is it that most people see a 12-14 year old boy as more responsible than a 12-14 years old girl? 
If it had been a man in his 20's or older with a 12 year old girl, then yes that's way different, but the op has said they were the same age or up to a year apart in age. Both seeking love and attention they probably weren't getting from home.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> What did you read? I asked you to be specific. "That's not what I read" is meaningless.
> 
> Have you told any boyfriend or husband about every sexual act or thought that you experienced in your past? More men, than women have insecurities about sexual past.
> 
> ...


I am not going through reading it all again, but it is what she said about him.

Its a known fact that people who have had many sexual partners are more likely to cheat.I read that recently in a study.
My husband and I have always been completely honest about the past. 
Its not hard though, he has only had sex with his first wife and myself, and me with my first husband, one guy before my first husband and now him. 

I see honesty as vital. To us sex is so important, to us its not 'just sex', but far more than that. I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to sleep around, so I can see where hudson is coming from and why this is hard for him. Its a sad situation where her past has come back to haunt her. 

I think its so wrong for anyone to attack him for the struggles he has with this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> OK so if two 12-14 year olds have sex and carry on having sex who is to blame? They are both children, the same age, (as in this case), so why is the boy more responsible than the girl if it was consensual?
> Its probable that both had dysfunctional/possibly abusive families for them to be having a relationship and sex that young, so why is it that most people see a 12-14 year old boy as more responsible than a 12-14 years old girl?
> If it had been a man in his 20's or older with a 12 year old girl, then yes that's way different, but the op has said they were the same age or up to a year apart in age. Both seeking love and attention they probably weren't getting from home.


Because the boy made tapes of it and then used them to destroy her years later. *It wasn't consensual* at first, he raped her repeatedly when she said no. The boy was the ringleader. The girl on the other hand broke away and just by her treatment of her son proves she is 100 time the person that he is. I suspect this was always the case. I find it amazing you can't see the difference. Your lack of compassion is astonishing to me. Did you read her posts?


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> OK so if two 12-14 year olds have sex and carry on having sex who is to blame? They are both children, the same age, (as in this case), so why is the boy more responsible than the girl if it was consensual?
> Its probable that both had dysfunctional/possibly abusive families for them to be having a relationship and sex that young, so why is it that most people see a 12-14 year old boy as more responsible than a 12-14 years old girl?
> If it had been a man in his 20's or older with a 12 year old girl, then yes that's way different, but the op has said they were the same age or up to a year apart in age. Both seeking love and attention they probably weren't getting from home.


The 12 year old boy is still at fault. Directly from her thread:



> the first time we had sex he asked me if I wanted to or not. I said no but we had sex anyway.


HE raped her from the start. HE brought HIS friends into the mix. HE used her to get HIS drugs. HE chose to film it and HE chose to share it. HE chose to have virtually no part of his sons life. HE chose to threaten and stalk her when she left him. Maybe his home life wasn't unicorns and rainbows, but seeing as his parents are the ones with rights to the child not the father/their son they can't be that screwed up. A judge wouldn't have granted them to be the supervisors of the child if they were unfit.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> @TheTruthHurts :
> The only one who called the op, hudson a ****head, is you. You actually posted that, and now acting like others have said it.
> 
> Now does hudson have insecurities "hang-ups" - I believe so. That is my opinion and that of many others due to his own actions that he himself stated and the woman at the other site - which for the sake of easier composition and understanding, her name is "Gibrale" which I am very certain is the same person, and when I'm referring to her - will use her name.
> ...


 Yes they do exist, there are many people who only have sex in a serious relationship or marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

luca said:


> The 12 year old boy is still at fault. Directly from her thread:
> 
> 
> 
> HE raped her from the start. HE brought HIS friends into the mix. HE used her to get HIS drugs. HE chose to film it and HE chose to share it. HE chose to have virtually no part of his sons life. HE chose to threaten and stalk her when she left him. Maybe his home life wasn't unicorns and rainbows, but seeing as his parents are the ones with rights to the child not the father/their son they can't be that screwed up. A judge wouldn't have granted them to be the supervisors of the child if they were unfit.


I believe he filmed it when they were 18.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I believe he filmed it when they were 18.


The best thing that could be said here is you pretty much have the same opinion of this woman that her ex-boyfriend does. You sure you want to be standing with him thinking that way?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> The best thing that could be said here is you pretty much have the same opinion of this woman that her ex-boyfriend does. You sure you want to be standing with him thinking that way?


I can understand him not wanting to marry someone who had multiple sexual partners. I don't have any specific opinion of her, its impossible for us to know exactly what happened.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I can understand him not wanting to marry someone who had multiple sexual partners. I don't have any specific opinion of her, its impossible for us to know exactly what happened.


Someone who was raped didn't have multiple sex partners, they were raped. Consenting to having sex and being raped are not the same thing. You cannot equate the two together. You do have an opinion of her, it's been made quite clear.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I can understand him not wanting to marry someone who had multiple sexual partners. I don't have any specific opinion of her, its impossible for us to know exactly what happened.


I'm talking about the ex who sent the tape and said "just thought you should know who your are marring."


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Diana7 there is no point is stating the obvious to these other TAM members. They have no understanding or empathy for your viewpoint or mine for that matter. They simply don't value sex in marriage or a relationship the way you do. You will always be wrong on their mind because they don't accept your values.

I believe I see things the way you do and I believe @hudson does as well.


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## Snowflakes (Feb 18, 2017)

I did not read her post but maybe she didnt tell you about her past because she knew you'd react this way. Her past is only for her to think about you shouldnt have just abandoned her for that and from what i read its obvious that you are still into her because you cant get her out of your mind. And look at the mess you made of her for juding her for something she might have regretted and thought about a fresh start with you.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Diana7 there is no point is stating the obvious to these other TAM members. They have no understanding or empathy for your viewpoint or mine for that matter. They simply don't value sex in marriage or a relationship the way you do. You will always be wrong on their mind because they don't accept your values.
> 
> I believe I see things the way you do and I believe @hudson does as well.
> 
> ...


I value sex in a marriage/relationship. My wife and I have both had less than 5 partners, combined. I also have enough brain cells to separate rape from promiscuity. You cannot throw rape victims and promiscuous women into the same box. It's night and day. One type CHOSE to have sex, the other type was FORCED to have sex.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Diana7 there is no point is stating the obvious to these other TAM members. They have no understanding or empathy for your viewpoint or mine for that matter. They simply don't value sex in marriage or a relationship the way you do. You will always be wrong on their mind because they don't accept your values.
> 
> I believe I see things the way you do and I believe @hudson does as well.
> 
> ...


I think exactly about sex the way you do. I never had sex with anyone I didn't love I can count them on one hand. I have empathy for a human being who was brutally abused much more and think they are much more valuable then how many ******* stick there **** in them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

luca said:


> I value sex in a marriage/relationship. My wife and I have both had less than 5 partners, combined. I also have enough brain cells to separate rape from promiscuity. You cannot throw rape victims and promiscuous women into the same box. It's night and day. One type CHOSE to have sex, the other type was FORCED to have sex.


Amen, shame on those who don't.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

luca said:


> I missed the part where he watched the entire video. If he did, that's messed up. I wouldn't even have clicked on it, or would have closed it immediately. That's messed up if he could watch that.


I need to correct myself on that. He said he watched he video. He didn't say he watched the whole thing nor did he say partially.
I will edit my post to "I gather that he watched the whole video" since he didn't get specific about it.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You don't know any of this. There were posts on another site and @hudson already said they aren't the truth. So you're going on and on like you know what you're talking about and you don't.
> 
> I doubt there was even rape


You don't know any of this either, so we go with the info provided. I am going by the POSTS that were posted by OM and Gibrale, not opinions of other people on either site.
hudson said that he doesn't think the other poster was his ex-F.

In post #3 on this thread, he said:


> I have no idea, however I doubt it. She has never been the type to share information with strangers, or even people who are not strangers.
> 
> That is a predicament. I would like to attempt to reconcile and have a happy relationship again,


He also said he would like to attempt to reconcile. And in order to do that, he needs to see that his inability TO talk to her does not allow that to happen. Since then, he hasn't said anything more about LS.

And just by chance, the most recent posts by hudson and Gabrile stories are still matching. What are the chances?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I am not going through reading it all again, but it is what she said about him.


YOU still have NOT SAID A WORD about what you are talking about. Only thing you said "she bad liar". So what part of what she said or HE said **specifically** are you talking about?
no where in HER post, did she say she wanted to live that way, in the past or the present. Only some OTHER poster said that Gabrile was getting off on it and that her ex-f had a "little one".



> Its a known fact that people who have had many sexual partners are more likely to cheat.I read that recently in a study.
> My husband and I have always been completely honest about the past.


Possibly. But that isn't always the case. What study? And you're still comparing the experiences of a girl who has been molested and raped from the ages of about 10~18 rather than a woman who has gone through therapy to get past that. 



> I see honesty as vital. To us sex is so important, to us its not 'just sex', but far more than that. I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to sleep around, so I can see where hudson is coming from and why this is hard for him. Its a sad situation where her past has come back to haunt her.
> 
> I think its so wrong for anyone to attack him for the struggles he has with this.


Yes, honesty is very important. But in the real world - most people are not that honest. It takes a while to peel those layers if you have walls of protection from trauma. He couldn't handle the truth, so she didn't offer it to him. If he said he could - she seems the type of person who would have.

I am not attacking him over his struggles. I'm pointing out he has ISSUES and is shaming a CSA woman that he said he wanted to reconcile with. Yeah, I get it - that he's hurt that she didn't tell him about her sexual abuse. This would be a different matter if she was doing gangbangs for fun at age 21 and didn't have the trauma. Her pain is FAR worse than what he is feeling.

Did she cheat on him? No. Did he want to know? No.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> OK so if two 12-14 year olds have sex and carry on having sex who is to blame? They are both children, the same age, (as in this case), so why is the boy more responsible than the girl if it was consensual?
> Its probable that both had dysfunctional/possibly abusive families for them to be having a relationship and sex that young, so why is it that most people see a 12-14 year old boy as more responsible than a 12-14 years old girl?
> If it had been a man in his 20's or older with a 12 year old girl, then yes that's way different, but the op has said they were the same age or up to a year apart in age. Both seeking love and attention they probably weren't getting from home.


Uh, she was molested by family members at a young age. I don't recall, but figure pre-teen if I remember correctly. She was forced to watch her father beat and rape her mother. Was told that "women are things to be banged" pretty much (not her exact words). Some of the males she had sex with were 5~6 years older and the age of consent was younger in Canada back then. 14 or 16years old, a girl at that age has no business having sex with a male that is 5+ years older. So that kinda hit your "man in his 20s".


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Yes they do exist, there are many people who only have sex in a serious relationship or marriage.


So what? What does that have to do with anything? Neither Gabrile or hudson were virgins when they meet and had sex. Nobody is giving him a hard time because he had sex with 5 women in his life. If he wants a virgin, guess he needs to hang around middle schools, right?

When I meet my wife, I didn't date others anymore. Gee... serious relationship.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

sokillme said:


> This thread has completely gone off the rails. You know that's the truth when *I* am saying it. It's also completely unfair to OP to judge him harsher then his ex has. For God's sake no one should have to be blindsided by seeing your fiance in what is basically an orgy movie. No one is going to just be like "OK let's talk" after having that sprung on you. Seriously your not helping by jumping down the man's throat. He has no prior experience with this kind of stuff.


I'll take it down a notch. I agree, he got a turd-sandwhich with the video. But gee... see it for what it is. A jerk druggie who wants to HURT you and your fiancee. Well, he's winning the war with a single shot. The op batton down the hatches, but isn't turning on the pumps or putting out fires. I can understand a few days or a week to calm down, and then "LETS TALK". Life is about experiences, good or bad.



> Also telling him to leave her alone is just wrong, his ex specifically wants him there because of her son, you have no right to go against her wishes. If she were here I bet she would say the same. Again you are not helping her by doing that. She wants him back.


I see a young woman who wants to have a stable family with a man and her son. I am aware she wants him back. But he is stringing her along. He has no legal ties to the child and his continued interactions with the child is damaging and confusing to the child. If he wants to reconcile and make an effort TO DO IT and continue to see the kid. If he's going to look for another mate, then he needs to exit the stage so the child can start healing. If hudson decides to do reconcile, then he also needs to NOT ever hold this over her head. He needs to hear the truth, the whole story from her and with a therapist that can HELP him work out these thoughts in his head. Are there men who retain relationships with children from ex-GFs, sure. Maybe through normal break ups. But not this.

Others are telling her she should cut it off with him. He needs to make a choice. It's ALL or NOTHING.



> This is an incredibly hard situation for everyone, everyone has made bad mistakes but I believe everyone is trying to do the right thing. Lets try to help them all here.


Agreed... I am hoping that hudson gets therapy and if he wants to reconcile - he does it properly, they work together as a couple and they live happily ever after.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

luca said:


> Someone who was raped didn't have multiple sex partners, they were raped. Consenting to having sex and being raped are not the same thing. You cannot equate the two together. You do have an opinion of her, it's been made quite clear.


Was it rape when she was older? 18? Or did she have a choice to say no?Is it rape when it goes on for years and her partner is the same age as her?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> I'll take it down a notch. I agree, he got a turd-sandwhich with the video. But gee... see it for what it is. A jerk druggie who wants to HURT you and your fiancee. Well, he's winning the war with a single shot. The op batton down the hatches, but isn't turning on the pumps or putting out fires. I can understand a few days or a week to calm down, and then "LETS TALK". Life is about experiences, good or bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is not 'stringing her along', he has had a massive shock and revelation that she kept to herself, and he is trying to make a massive decision as to whether he can trust her again and if he wants to marry a lady who had had multiple sexual partners. 

Its also a big deal for him (and for many I suspect) that she sees nothing wrong with living in the same street as her previous partner/rapist. Most women who are raped would want to get as far away as possible from their rapist.That alone would help the situation.
Also why hasn't she got a dna test done to see who the boys father is? Its a reasonable request.

He needs time to think and make a decision. Many people would struggle with this situation, especially as he has been made to feel 'less than' sexually just for being a normal guy.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Was it rape when she was older? 18? Or did she have a choice to say no?Is it rape when it goes on for years and her partner is the same age as her?


Is it rape if a woman goes out alone at night? Is it rape if a woman's short is too skirt or she's showing too much cleavage? Is it rape if a woman is too drunk to say yes? What if it's on her 18th birthday, does that mean it's no longer rape? If someone is kidnapped, held hostage for 18 years (it happens) and regularly raped does it no longer become rape after a certain time period? 

In her post she said that she *NEVER* wanted to do it. There is no age limit or time limit on rape. It doesn't matter if she was 16, 18 or 92. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if it happened once or 1 million times. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if your rapist is the same age, younger or older. Rape is rape. 

She said that she NEVER wanted to do it. End of story on whether it was rape or not. 



Diana7 said:


> Its also a big deal for him (and for many I suspect) that she sees nothing wrong with living in the same street as her previous partner/rapist. Most women who are raped would want to get as far away as possible from their rapist.That alone would help the situation.
> Also why hasn't she got a dna test done to see who the boys father is? Its a reasonable request.


If she is sure of who the father is, then there is no reason to drop $1000 + legal fees on a DNA test. The cheap, order online DNA tests are A) useless in court and B) chances are she wouldn't be able to get the ex-bf/baby daddy to agree to take it, meaning more legal fees to go back to court. Then more legal fees in the fight to have his rights terminated. She probably doesn't want her son to be involved in that mess, being young but old enough to possibly be questioned in court. 

I'm assuming that she doesn't remember who she was raped by every month. When there are multiple men and it goes on for years it probably blends together. But unless she didn't find out that she was pregnant until far into the pregnancy she'd remember if there was many or one rapists in the last month or two.

The man that she lives near who raped her has never made a move towards her or even glanced at her. She didn't want to tell "hudson" about her past (to spare him the details that he said he never wanted to hear). She has said that it makes her uncomfortable and she won't go near his house. Maybe she would agree to move we and "hudson" don't know because he refuses to talk to her.

In her post she said that at *14* she was being raped by men *5-6 years* older, and that lasted until she was 19. A 14 year old having sex with a 20 year old is automatically rape, a 16 year old having sex with a 22 year old is automatically rape. At 18 it may not _legally_ be rape but do you really think that changes everything? On her 18th birthday she "snapped out of it" and wanted gang bangs? With those same 24 year olds who raped her for 4 years prior?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

luca said:


> Is it rape if a woman goes out alone at night? Is it rape if a woman's short is too skirt or she's showing too much cleavage? Is it rape if a woman is too drunk to say yes? What if it's on her 18th birthday, does that mean it's no longer rape? If someone is kidnapped, held hostage for 18 years (it happens) and regularly raped does it no longer become rape after a certain time period?
> 
> In her post she said that she *NEVER* wanted to do it. There is no age limit or time limit on rape. It doesn't matter if she was 16, 18 or 92. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if it happened once or 1 million times. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if your rapist is the same age, younger or older. Rape is rape.
> 
> ...


She isn't sure who the father is, she was having sex with 18 or more men at that time, she cant possibly know.
If you are being raped, why would you carry on meeting with the man over and over again? Even when you are an adult? Why would you live anywhere near him? It doesn't make sense. 
Her partner was the same age as her.


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## luca (Feb 18, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> She isn't sure who the father is, she was having sex with 18 or more men at that time, she cant possibly know.
> If you are being raped, why would you carry on meeting with the man over and over again? Even when you are an adult? Why would you live anywhere near him? It doesn't make sense.
> Her partner was the same age as her.


No, she had sex with 18 men in her life time not all at once. Her thread, page 12, touches on it. She wasn't being raped by any other men around the time her son was conceived. Is there a possibility that he isn't the father, yes absolutely. Some of her reasoning for not having a DNA test include shame of not knowing who the father is and having a gap in rapes for 2-3 weeks. Is that the best reasoning? No, but it is what it is. She was having unprotected sex for 7 years a pregnancy was bound to happen at some point, birth control was never mentioned. 

She was sexually abused from birth to 19 years old. You need to read THIS one post of hers if you really think a person can snap out of that mindset. 



> I grew up watching my dad beat and rape my mom daily. My dad touched me daily until I was 8, then switched to oral until I was 11. My grandpa touched me every weekend until I was 16, when I was allowed to legally stop seeing him. My cousin [who she was sent to live with I believe] touched me from 8-11, then raped me daily until I was 17.


It doesn't matter that her exbf was the same age as her. He still forced her to have sex with himself and others, and continues to be horrible to her nearly 15-20 years after they first met.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Was it rape when she was older? 18? Or did she have a choice to say no?Is it rape when it goes on for years and her partner is the same age as her?


I agree with a lot of you post on here, but on this you really have no idea what your are talking about. NO IDEA. You should read this. Or this, notice a pattern. Being close with someone who is a survivor of rape and watching there life pre and post, again you have no idea. The answer is emphatically YES, and if you talked to 100 Psychologists who have training in this type of thing, told this story to them 100 would say it was rape. You are basically blaming the victim here, and it is not good optics for you. I mean what the hell does age have to do with it. That thought would be offense to most. Next you are gonna talk about how she dressed. All types of abuse go on for years doesn't make it any less abuse. Over and over I see her people saying, why didn't she just get away. BECAUSE SHE WAS A TEENAGER! As soon as she became and adult and had the means she did.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Was it rape when she was older? 18? Or did she have a choice to say no?Is it rape when it goes on for years and her partner is the same age as her?


Do you know anything about abuse? Why women will stay with abusive husbands who beat and rape them and their children?

As she got older and had a child, she figured out that she needed to save herself and found a way to do it. Why do you think people suddenly change because they turned 18 or 30? Have you ever made a life change on the spot? If that happened, then any drunk would only need to go to a single AA meeting to be cured of alcoholism. Every rape victim is cured of her trauma after a single 60 min session. When there is infidelity, the cheater realizes instantly that they made a mistake and are cured of the affair. The betrayed spouse is instantly cured of triggers, shakes, the trauma of the affair/broken marriage. Nobody would need to buy or read several 400 page books on saving marriages when a flyer is enough.

Things take time to work out. We are not robots. We either have the ability to learn or not. This thread is in the reconciliation section of TAM, not "Coping with Infidelity" so I don't know your experiences in that area. We are a few months away from our 1yr anniversary of the actual attempt of R. It took months to for both of us to get there, 6 months worth of therapy and work.

So no... you are making the mistake of mixing things that have little to no relationship to each other. She got away from those people as much as she could legally about the age of 20 and hasn't done any of those things since. Hence, you are judging and shaming her for being a survivor of childhood rape. If you have kids - especially daughters, would you do do the same to them? Would you say "It's YOUR fault that a man put his penis in your body?" - because yeah, a lot of people do think that way.

The one thing about men vs women is that WE are physically stronger. I'm a 230lb 6ft tall man, solid build (imagine Vin Diesel - but with less muscle and more gut from age, children and not going to gym for movies) and like many men, yet I am stronger than most women and can have my way, I can kill with my bare hands. I'm 15 years older than my wife who is in very good physical shape (aside from injuries) for a 5'-2" 99lb woman - yet I am far stronger in every way. And no, she doesn't fear me hurting her. 

But many women, especially girls are willing to do a lot for someone they are "in love with", including getting beat, sold as sex workers, abusing their own kids - including murder.

Most people can understand the simple fact that a CHILD has little control of themselves. Especially one that has been abused.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I agree with a lot of you post on here, but on this you really have no idea what your are talking about. NO IDEA. You should read this. Or this, notice a pattern. Being close with someone who is a survivor of rape and watching there life pre and post, again you have no idea. The answer is emphatically YES, and if you talked to 100 Psychologists who have training in this type of thing, told this story to them 100 would say it was rape. You are basically blaming the victim here, and it is not good optics for you. I mean what the hell does age have to do with it. That thought would be offense to most. Next you are gonna talk about how she dressed. All types of abuse go on for years doesn't make it any less abuse. Over and over I see her people saying, why didn't she just get away. BECAUSE SHE WAS A TEENAGER! As soon as she became and adult and had the means she did.


I probably know far more than you. There are several people who were abused by their father in my own family when they were young. I have read widely because of this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Do you know anything about abuse? Why women will stay with abusive husbands who beat and rape them and their children?
> 
> As she got older and had a child, she figured out that she needed to save herself and found a way to do it. Why do you think people suddenly change because they turned 18 or 30? Have you ever made a life change on the spot? If that happened, then any drunk would only need to go to a single AA meeting to be cured of alcoholism. Every rape victim is cured of her trauma after a single 60 min session. When there is infidelity, the cheater realizes instantly that they made a mistake and are cured of the affair. The betrayed spouse is instantly cured of triggers, shakes, the trauma of the affair/broken marriage. Nobody would need to buy or read several 400 page books on saving marriages when a flyer is enough.
> 
> ...


Yes I know a lot about abuse, there have been several people who have been sexually abused in my own family, that's why I would never ever stay with a man who abused me. One rape, one punch, I am gone. The same with my children.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> He is not 'stringing her along', he has had a massive shock and revelation that she kept to herself, and he is trying to make a massive decision as to whether he can trust her again and if he wants to marry a lady who had had multiple sexual partners.


I'll call bull**** on that. He is SOOOOO butt-hurt that he's dating other women that he himself said "I enjoy". And he has not done a single thing to make a decision but be a cold-blooded person while taking *HER* son out to have fun. That is cruel. When my wife cheated on me, I didn't do that kind of crap to her with our son.

And you keep going on and on as if she DID THIS YESTERDAY. She was a teenager, 10 years ago. And you yourself should be old enough to know that even young adults are still immature.



> Its also a big deal for him (and for many I suspect) that she sees nothing wrong with living in the same street as her previous partner/rapist. Most women who are raped would want to get as far away as possible from their rapist.That alone would help the situation.
> Also why hasn't she got a dna test done to see who the boys father is? Its a reasonable request.


We already went over this. Did you read a word anyone has said? And in this country in many states, by law - a rapist still has parental rights to his rape-child. If OP was open to reality, she could have told him. To a degree, he put himself in that position. "HE DID NOT WANT TO KNOW".



> He needs time to think and make a decision. Many people would struggle with this situation, especially as he has been made to feel 'less than' sexually just for being a normal guy.


Four months and counting? Sure while he's buying dinner and drinks for other *WOMEN* - he's needs time to think.

His pain is self-inflicted, his pain is a fraction of hers. He has been in control of this drama, which he himself is a victim of a druggie who played him like fiddle. And in my book, not man enough to be above the druggie xbf. That xBF will spend years laughing how he screwed over Gabrile, her son and hudson.

By all means, hopefully, Gabrile will find a much better man whom she can feel comfortable enough to share her past a bit. "Just so you know, I am CSA survivor. I would prefer to not discuss it but if you feel you should know more, I will tell you must now because the father of my son sabotage my last relationship." Of course, this is not the sort of thing you bring up on your first date or early dating.

Unless hudson is willing to get therapy as well, I believe would be a typical bad "normal" role model for her son. Teaching him that girls are property and that only his feelings matter and that there are only certain people who are up to some sort of standard. If he (and you) are going to continue to think the woman she is today is the same 15yr old girl of her past, then he needs to exit the stage.

IMO, the best thing she should do if hudson continues to do this limbo game; is to go full NC, move, go to therapy, recover and hopefully try again. I'm sure others are already. And I for one am not willing to join that site to voice my opinion.

She has 5 years invested in this guy, but apparently, she isn't worth the time to talk too? Sooner or later, she is going to figure this out. A continued relationship with hudson would be a hindrance for future relationships. There is no future of hudson having a buddy-daddy relationship with her son.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> She isn't sure who the father is, she was having sex with 18 or more men at that time, she cant possibly know.
> If you are being raped, why would you carry on meeting with the man over and over again? Even when you are an adult? Why would you live anywhere near him? It doesn't make sense.
> Her partner was the same age as her.


Geez. Didn't you read anything?
First, she didn't say every day was gangbang day. Even people who are into BDSM are not into beating or doing scenes together every day or every time. It's been months since I've even seen my flooger. And since the father was a "boyfriend" - it means she spent more time with him until/unless he got his buddies involved. She was clear that she knows who the father is, no question about it. It *IS YOU* that is saying that.

If she wasn't sure - then through the court - she could get that xBF out of her life by making it legal "he is not the father" - all xBF has to do is take a court-ordered DNA test.

Again, She and hudson moved to a new house, and by chance it turned out to be on the same block area as a man from her past. Because of the situation that they both put themselves into, she couldn't say anything. He stayed away from her, she stayed away from him.

The xBF/father is the same age as Gabrile. Some of his friends were older and at least one of them (the neighbor) was 5-6 years older. That info was quite clear.
She has already delt with Canadian court to get her xBF out of her life. Because of the long-term continued sex, with people like you who don't seem to understand CSA issues - "Why did you let him have sex with his friends" will make her legal case against him and the other men problematic to win in court.

Remember *AGAIN*, in the USA in 2016. TWO MEN stopped a single man in the act of RAPE. That young man got about 3 months in jail. He was convicted. He was caught with his pants down. He got a slap on the hand. Trying to prosecute a case from 10+ years ago is much more difficult. In the USA - about 35% of rape are reported. Hell, even the orange guy in the white house who has sexually assaulted women and little girls - got away with it.

She got screwed by her family, her first "boyfriend", the legal system and today.

A handy chart:












> Yes I know a lot about abuse, there have been several people who have been sexually abused in my own family, that's why I would never ever stay with a man who abused me. One rape, one punch, I am gone. The same with my children.


Thats sweet. So everyone in the world is just like you? Every man is just like your father? Everyone handles situations exactly the same? Were those in your family, forced to watch you father rape others? Were they also 14 years old? We you handed off to other boys? What resources were available? Does everyone have the same resources?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

luca said:


> I value sex in a marriage/relationship. My wife and I have both had less than 5 partners, combined. I also have enough brain cells to separate rape from promiscuity. You cannot throw rape victims and promiscuous women into the same box. It's night and day. One type CHOSE to have sex, the other type was FORCED to have sex.




I don't think she was raped. There are no posts in TAM suggesting it


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Amen, shame on those who don't.




Go shame yourself. I don't feel shame for things I have not done. Shame is for behavior that is shameful like the Ex-F


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TaDor said:


> You don't know any of this either, so we go with the info provided. I am going by the POSTS that were posted by OM and Gibrale, not opinions of other people on either site.
> hudson said that he doesn't think the other poster was his ex-F.
> 
> In post #3 on this thread, he said:
> ...




I didn't read any of that on TAM - which post numbers. The Gabrile post


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Post #1 / title / the section of this site "Reconciling with fiancée"
Post #3
Post #63: OP states that she refused DNA test. As he seems to think the gangbangs was all she did. But since he doesn't TALK to her, we doesn't know much information. We know more than he does.
He is right that he has the right to know... but as the same time, he also said he didn't want to know.



> HUDSON : " the post on that other website, I have not read it nor will I. It is a massive invasion of privacy and what she has wanted me to know, she has told me. I have had enough lessons with obtaining information for another source."


So again, hudson has purposely put his head in the sand and then doesn't know what to do. He refuses to TALK to Gabrile. He REFUSES to READ the other posts. He says he's got enough info from another source which is the same guy he said _" This fellow is an idiot. There is a tree stump in a Louisiana swamp with a higher IQ than he has."_ - wow, that's his source? Thats like getting your main news from websites that sell penis enlargement pills and the National Enquirer. 

I assume hudson took her to lawyers about the DNA test. Thinking about it again. Yeah, that is her failing and that was likely LONG before the video was shown to hudson. Because if THE DNA offer was AFTER the video, that means she and hudson had time to talk.

But lets look at it from HER SIDE of things. If the DNA tests showed that xBF was not the dad - then hudson would say "who is the dad?" Afterall, he was still under the impression that she had limited sexual partners. Maybe she doesn't like the idea of NOT knowing who got her pregnant for real? Does the child look remotely like the xBF?

Yeah, she should have done the DNA test when offered. But at the same time what other issues were there? Would that have prevented the xBF from sending the video to hudson? Of course he would have done it after the DNA for revenge/spite. And she is still back to square one.

Did Gabrile screw up? Yes. She was afraid. And the reasons are understandable. She vented to the public because hudson wouldn't talk to her.

Now, I also understand how she could be judged wrong here and by others...

On topic story: TAM isn't the only site I vented my situation with my wife. I also sought out advice from people who I thought would understand my predicament and give me some additional ideas. They ripped me apart. Said I was abusive to my wife and she should have the right to stab me in the back. They didn't think she cheated, it was within her rights to do the things she did. I was emotional over there and didn't convey my thoughts as good as I should, but they twisted my words around. Some of them projected their OWN abuse or history into MY situation and people responded as if was me - like injecting things that happened that I never said (Which I am trying to avoid here). Even when I pointed out to one woman that she was projecting her abusive ex onto me, she just turned up the dial as if it was ME that beat the crap out of her. Had these people shut-up for 5 minutes, took a break - calm the hell down, listen to what I corrected on myself and others. It would have been resolved. They did not believe in affair fog or the mind-set of cheaters which I HAD TRIED to educate them about. I PM'd one of them "What you said was a fabrication, that is not what I said" - that person acted like hudson. "I am not reading your message. You are abusive and you change your story. you are now blocked". Had that fool read what I said, it pointed that what others said, including himself were not from me and had errors. I had asked him to review my posts and it would confirm the truth as that message board DID NOT ALLOW EDITS.

*@hudson*... you lack information because you refuse to listen to HER or even other posts from her. Don't know why. To me, it seems you are afraid of the truth. You may be having "mind-movies" - which are horrible. In which you are imagining her having a great time with all that sex. Maybe even jealous of what sex acts she did. Yeah, MANY people are like THAT. "How come you did anal then, but not with me?" whatever. So you are imagining her in sexual bliss, when from her words - she was in sexual hell and dealing with it the best she could at the time.

My wife did things with me sexually, that I thought she liked. But in reality, she did not and only told me about much later. Nothing near as horrible as what Gabrile went through.

You are assuming one thing, afraid to hear that she has more to say about how "great it was", but in fact - no, she did not. Yes, you are allowed your feelings on this... but its not just you. And still, your feelings are not so damaged that you are dating other womEn. You have the ability to help both of you recover, heal and learn to be better people. If not, walk away. Recover, learn to be a better man. What you are doing now - is hurting 3 people - end the pain one way or the other.

If you go through life thinking that the world revolves around you, then your world is small.


~~ @TheTruthHurts
I have pasted some parts of the Gabrile posts. The links are here that point to them.
Her 2nd thread matches the recent posts from hudson. So at the point, this is the only way to get her side of the story.

Neither party are saying that she CHEATED or did anything recently since the birth of her son that disturbs hudson.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

TaDor said:


> @luca
> 
> I gather that he watched the whole video. If it was me, I would be mad at the exBF without watching the video or just a few seconds to see that if it was really her. So who knows what he really does on these dates.
> 
> Well, who knows what is really bugging him. He saw the video and decided that was that. So he should have gone to therapy a long time ago. But still, what was it? That it was a few boys and men having sex with a teenager? Was it the DP or was it the black guy that pushed him over the edge.


But how do u think it feels for a southern man who's been raised with interracial relationships being wrong watching something like that? It's a deep conflict.

Yes, it was probably a little worse for him because there were black men involved in the sexual acts, but can you really blame him when he was raised that way? It's not his fault. But regardless if he was raised that way or not, that's his opinion. If he doesn't like it then I think one should just respect his opinion.

"hudson" seems to be a genuinely good man.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Bigotry is not a good trait. Southern has nothing to do with it... thats an excuse... a lame excuse. Don't blame the woman - she was raised by a rapist family and when she was 19 - she removed herself from those people as best she can, legally. She didn't have much choice as a teenager to escape the abuse - but as an adult, she damn will DID IT!

Being a bigot is a choice. Another human being cannot choose his skin color, which is a pigment of the skin. If seeing her having sex with a black man "broke" him... then he should move on, maybe out of Canada since they are much less racists than the USA.

One of my grandmas in her 70s, back in the late 1970s liked watching black football players... she thought they looked "hot". Back in the 60s and earlier, she used to say the N-word in reference to black people... she outgrew racism.


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## matyr (Feb 18, 2017)

Wonder if she knows about this thread. Links were posted many times on hers but deleted by admin.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Frankly this thread is the best example why she kept it secret.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I read her posts and read most of Hudson's. I would regard her (or anyone's) past only in terms of how it might effect the future. So the question is not the acts but the response and the future response. My only concern would be does the CSA leave her vulnerable to adultery in the future as a means of seif-sabotage.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Oh oh oh oh!!! Now I get it! @TaDor I had no idea why you kept searching the Internet for posts NOT ON TAM and therefore something I won't ever consider in my responses. Linking to another site doesn't even remotely count as a relevant TAM post in my book - if an OP didn't post it about their situation and furthermore won't confirm it, it's not the least bit relevant.

But now I get it. YOU ARE PROJECTING! You were "that guy" who got your exW to do things she didn't want to do. You are defending your EXW when you are talking about @hudson's fiance.

I read your thread. I now get why you so staunchly defend this woman.

But the thing is, she's NOT Mrs. [email protected] She's a woman who lied to a guy that was going to marry her. She withheld things he should have known because she'll deal with it the rest of her life. She keeps someone in her life for completely unknown reasons. She won't DNA test her kid even if it means she can get someone bad and harmful to her marriage away from her. So she is actively making horrible decisions that impact @hudson.

You have a very non-standard sexual orientation and lessez faire attitude that is not shared by most. You shouldn't expect others to share that view particularly when they've said they don't.

Your arguments about her not wanting to share her past and wanting a new start don't address the problem at all. That's the real problem.
@TaDor I hope you pause and think about that. I don't think your thinking clearly here.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Frankly this thread is the best example why she kept it secret.




Because a nice guy like @hudson wouldn't want to marry her. So instead she hoped to trap him and rely on his "good guy" nature to keep him from divorcing once the full betrayal of the lies were revealed. I'm really glad her plan failed or this would be much worse for both of them and the heartbreak would have been much greater.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Frankly this thread is the best example why she kept it secret.




Here's the thing. Let's change this to a story where the Ex-F is 1/20 black and OP is completely racist. That's a horrible scenario, right? OP would be a complete DB, right? But if that was hidden from him, I'd still say he was right to stand down on the M because that's who he is and that's who she is. Certainly no one here would have to defend her for being 1/20th black, right? That's crazy, right? But if our man were a Hood wearing racist a-hole it's still a lose-lose situation and not something she should try to hide.

Anyway that's my $.02


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Oh oh oh oh!!! Now I get it! @TaDor I had no idea why you kept searching the Internet for posts NOT ON TAM and therefore something I won't ever consider in my responses. - if an OP didn't post it about their situation and furthermore won't confirm it, it's not the least bit relevant.


From you response, it was hard to tell. And I don't go on other sites posts, I only went to LS because of this thread. The situation becomes relevant because like the OP - you would choose to ignore information or evidence if it doesn't fit an ideal world. More than once on TAM have WS/BS been on different sites and the people here worked with that information.

The OP asks for ADVICE. But he ignores important KEY information on purpose. That is a simple fact.

The OP has not confirmed that the Gibrale is his exF because like you, he chooses not to confirm. [AND to PUT IT in OP's own experince] "His ex-F did not want to get the DNA test - even thou he tried with two lawyers to get such a test done". And to a degree, that is ALSO insulting for someone to demand a woman "hey, in case you are a **** - take a DNA test to make sure the kid is the xBF" - when she has told him YES, the xBF is biologically the father. This would be a different matter *IF* she was cheating on her husband or OP, which both of them say DID NOT HAPPEN. If anything, the only one that **IS* *cheating is the OP who is happily dating other women. She is spending months waiting for him to talk, while he's actively looking for her replacement.



> But now I get it. YOU ARE PROJECTING! You were "that guy" who got your exW to do things she didn't want to do. You are defending your EXW when you are talking about
> I read your thread. I now get why you so staunchly defend this woman.
> 
> But the thing is, she's NOT Mrs. [email protected]


 No, Gibrale is not my wife. I kind of see how you may think the two women had similar, but it is not. Gibrale was abused her entire childhood. An exBF used a video to break up a relationship because he's an asshat.



> You have a very non-standard sexual orientation and lessez faire attitude that is not shared by most. You shouldn't expect others to share that view particularly when they've said they don't.


I don't. I am not suggesting that hudson get into BDSM or anything of the like or anything else. I have been talking about his attitude to her sexual abuse. Not what they do in their bedroom, for that has no connection.


> Your arguments about her not wanting to share her past and wanting a new start don't address the problem at all. That's the real problem.


 I and others pretty much stated her rights to privacy of her sexual abuse. You keep ignoring that. The OP *DID NOT WANT TO KNOW*. It could have been different if he had the flexibility to understand those bad things happen to people. Hey, go ask your mom or your sister if they ever been raped... how do you think that will go?

I already stated that Gibrale should have handled it better and I *UNDERSTAND* the OP feels that he was lied to. But the circustances that the both of them presented created this storm. If she was able to leave the area and blocked xBF out of her life, nobody would know unless she told them. Such conversations do not come up in the first date or early dating. "hey, before I put my penis inside you, have you ever been with a black man? Or been molested by your father." Nope, he said he "DID NOT WANT TO KNOW". So yeah, as long as she doesn't have STDs, she loves someone and doesn't cheat on him - what difference does it make who she had sex with in her past?

Victims data link : https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics
(snipets of link below for those who don't click)
- Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
- Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13.
- A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results. _(sound familiar?)_
- A child who is the victim of prolonged sexual abuse usually develops low self-esteem, a feeling of worthlessness and an abnormal or distorted view of sex. The child may become withdrawn and mistrustful of adults, and can become suicidal. _(Gibrale )_
- Abusers may cause victims to feel stigmatized (i.e., ashamed, bad, deviant) and responsible for the molestation. _ (The xBF - and he succeeded)_
- Victims of child sexual abuse have higher rates of revictimization (later sexual assaults) than non-victims. _(sound familiar?)_

On other stats: 1 out of 7 women are raped by men. 1 out of 71 men are raped by men. But in college campuses in the USA, 1 out of 16 men are raped by other men. * source = CDC

Why bring this up? A simple fact of the number that dating someone, especially women - there is high chance that she has been raped or will be raped.

*Shaming ANY woman of CSA or rape because OF actions out of her control as IF SHE IS A CHEATER is wrong and cruel.*


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Here's the thing. Let's change this to a story where the Ex-F is 1/20 black and OP is completely racist.


 A person can't be a fraction of a race. As humans, we are ALL pretty much mixed to some degree. There is no such thing as the "American race" since all white people are immigrants. You can have % of black DNA as well as others, even those in Europe.

Roughly about 10% of the US population that considers its self "white" have 1~28% black DNA. That number is much higher in the south where slavery was more popular and legal the longest. (more rapes of white men of their black female "property" = whose offspring would be considered "black" and sold off) By all mean, people should get their DNA done... we are all the human race.

This is a video I like about race and DNA:





(This is the general video - they have a 5~8 min videos on each of the 6& people)


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Here's the thing. Let's change this to a story where the Ex-F is 1/20 black and OP is completely racist. That's a horrible scenario, right? OP would be a complete DB, right? But if that was hidden from him, I'd still say he was right to stand down on the M because that's who he is and that's who she is. Certainly no one here would have to defend her for being 1/20th black, right? That's crazy, right? But if our man were a Hood wearing racist a-hole it's still a lose-lose situation and not something she should try to hide.
> 
> Anyway that's my $.02
> 
> ...


You think I am saying that because of the color of the men's skin? Who cares. If OP does then that's wrong on him.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TaDor said:


> A person can't be a fraction of a race. As humans, we are ALL pretty much mixed to some degree. There is no such thing as the "American race" since all white people are immigrants. You can have % of black DNA as well as others, even those in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow now I know you're just here to argue. I purposely made the argument a bad one to make the point that it doesn't matter what @hudsons proclivities or opinions are and it doesn't matter if they're PC or rational or acceptable to you. SPECIFICALLY arguing about whether someone can be 1/20th black ISN'T even germane. THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY STUPID PREMISE. 

The whole point is @hudson alone gets to decide his boundaries and basic needs. He doesn't have ANY obligation to explain or justify them. 

You keep saying I am ignoring information YOU find important. How do you not get that it's only important to you and NOT OP.

I don't believe the other thread you rely on is true. I believe OP's ex-F is lying through her teeth to justify her prior behavior that she is now shamed of. I have seen no evidence to the contrary and in fact I have seen evidence supporting my beliefs.

But it doesn't even matter. Because her lying is enough to kill the marriage. And now @hudson has to just work through the grief at the loss of what he THOUGHT he had, but never really had.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind. 

So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. Seeing her gagging on a black mans penis until he ejaculates on her face. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me. 

Not once in the video did she try and get up, stop them or tell them she didn't want to do it. She wasn't laying there emotionless either. She was an equal participant shared between 4 men. She willingly switched back and forth on who she was sucking off and touching. When she wasn't jerking someone off she was touching herself while being banged. She was moaning throughout the video and reached orgasm. It didn't sound like she was being coached by anyone and her face didn't scream of fear. At the end 3 dudes ejaculated on her and she wiped it up with her fingers and licked it off, no one made her do it. She cleaned their penises off with her mouth without them initiating it. The camera wasn't being moved it was stationary. When she moved she always positioned herself at the right angles for visibility. She knew exactly what she was doing. After that video there were numerous short clips from other "occurrences" which consisted of close ups of her switching between sucking off 3 men standing around her. Close up of her going down on a WOMAN while be banged in the butt by a black man. Close ups of her genitalia/butt while she was being banged hard by 1 and 2 guys. She clearly said "F me harder" in one. Close up of semen dripping out of her genitalia/butt after being with a group of men. And her having what seemed like a very intense orgasm while being with 3 men. 

If she told me that it was a fun, enjoyable experience I would have believed it without a doubt. It did not look like rape. I'm not saying it wasn't but it didn't have any resemblance to rape and that makes it harder to think of it as rape. 

I know that her family life was rough. Before this information came out I knew her dad was abusive, her mom committed suicide and my X was sent to live with family. She has told me more about it and I had no problems trusting her however there was proof. Her dad was physically, mentally and sexually abusive towards her and her mother. He molested her until she was 8, at which point he switched to oral rape until she was 11 which is when she went to live with her paternal aunt. Her paternal grandfather molested her until she was well into her teen years. At age 11-12 she went to live with her paternal aunt, after her mom committed suicide and her dad was put in jail. The son of that paternal aunt molested and raped daily her the entire time she lived there. To every man in her life, she is someone who was seen as nothing more than a sexual object. 

With her family life, proof could be found online when I searched for court records of her dads trial. I had proof that what she was saying was true. Proof of her teenage sexual encounters could probably be found online as well, but it just looks like she was an amateur porn star not a rape victim. I feel like a dumb ass for believing it wasn't consensual. 

There is nothing proving it. We had a normal sex life, she didn't have all these red flags and warning signs going off. There are red flags that lead me to think it wasn't rape just regret, such as not doing a DNA test, living next to a "rapist" when she can't handle seeing her XBF or cousin. She has seen her cousin once since moving out, I was with her and she was a basket case. She can give her reasons but it still doesn't line up. 

She has given me her reasoning for it, that if she didn't act like she enjoyed it she was beaten and tied down to be raped with no rules. If she went along with it and did a good job at pleasing them she wouldn't be restricted and her XBF would protect her from it getting too rough. Her XBF paid for birth control pills that he only let her have if she was good at the sex. She had to get each days pill from him which made her go see him. 

It helps me understand but to be honest I don't think it's something that I will ever be able to get out of my head. When I look at her face I think of the 20 dudes that left their seed there. When I think about kissing her I think of the 20 c**ks that were in her mouth. I have doubts that I will ever be able to get past those thoughts. 

When we were talking last night she said she'd do the DNA test but was extremely uncomfortable and awkward while saying it. She is hiding _something_. She told me she'd try to get XBF removed if he isn't the father and we can move. If I go back to her. 

We talked for hours last night and she thought it went really well. To me it didn't. It confirmed my thoughts that I won't be able to get over this. I don't see her the same way anymore, fair or not. I don't want to hurt her or lead her on. She knows that I've been seeing other women and she almost feels like it's cheating because I told her to give us time. 

I want to be with her. I don't know if I can ever be with her again in a way that would be fair to her. The selfish part of me wants to keep her hanging on until I figure it out. She still wants me to go back to her. I am open to trying counselling together and alone to attempt to work past this. More and more it seems like a lost cause. I want to try everything that I can to reconcile but if it doesn't work she will be hurt even more.

I've been doing reading to try and understand her better. I keep reading over and over than many childhood sexual assault survivors go into porn, stripping, prostitution. It feels more like regret than brutal rape.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sokillme said:


> You think I am saying that because of the color of the men's skin? Who cares. If OP does then that's wrong on him.




Wow that is SO what I'm NOT saying that I don't even know how to respond.

This is a futile discussion on logic and reasoning. The backdrop of the situation is making many TAM members unable to follow logically.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

hudson said:


> I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind.
> 
> So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. Seeing her gagging on a black mans penis until he ejaculates on her face. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me.
> 
> ...



@hudson thank you for finally posting and clearing all this up.

I, for one, believe everything you've said. So you know the truth about her terrible abusive past, which doubtless left permanent scars. And you don't really know the full truth about the video sex - whether it was long term kid napping and rape or to at least a small extent consensual. And you don't like the interracial stuff.

Well, I'll say this. It's not rare for men to forever be impacted negatively if they're w is raped. Many men can't have sex or really look at them the same way again. That's from a single instance. I'm in no way judging but stating this as fact as I've read it, multiple times.

Your situation is 1,000 worse since you saw it and know it was on-going.

Personally I think it takes balls to say I can't do this. It's far from PC but I believe you when you say it's true. Honestly, I have no idea how I'd react. If it was my daughter or even a friends daughter is probably literally kill the guy or really ask for help to be stopped from killing him.

This is a situation that has no easy answers. I don't think you should try to stay - I don't think it will work. Sorry and good luck


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hudson, stop stringing her along....because that is what your doing....because no matter what she does to try to accommodate you demands, there is no way you are going back to her, you can fool yourself in believing that if she did this or that for one reason or another, and think to yourself that without the xBF in your life this will get better, but in the end you know the truth, she enjoyed herself, she did with men that you may ore may not do with you, that she had interracial sex, that the men might have been bigger than you, and those are the things that will NEVER go away from your mind...and those are things that will hold you back from moving on with her....look she has a child, its not yours, not your problem...let her be, walk away and move on. I don't know who you are trying to convince here, but i suspect its yourself, in that case your lying to yourself. Yeah you loved her and she lied, probably anyone would have with that much baggage.....but your wiser now...move on...let her be...let he raise her child however she needs to.


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## matyr (Feb 18, 2017)

hudson said:


> Not once in the video did she try and get up, stop them or tell them she didn't want to do it. She wasn't laying there emotionless either. She was an equal participant shared between 4 men. She willingly switched back and forth on who she was sucking off and touching. When she wasn't jerking someone off she was touching herself while being banged. She was moaning throughout the video and reached orgasm. It didn't sound like she was being coached by anyone and her face didn't scream of fear. At the end 3 dudes ejaculated on her and she wiped it up with her fingers and licked it off, no one made her do it. She cleaned their penises off with her mouth without them initiating it. The camera wasn't being moved it was stationary. When she moved she always positioned herself at the right angles for visibility. She knew exactly what she was doing. After that video there were numerous short clips from other "occurrences" which consisted of close ups of her switching between sucking off 3 men standing around her. Close up of her going down on a WOMAN while be banged in the butt by a black man. Close ups of her genitalia/butt while she was being banged hard by 1 and 2 guys. She clearly said "F me harder" in one. Close up of semen dripping out of her genitalia/butt after being with a group of men. And her having what seemed like a very intense orgasm while being with 3 men.
> 
> It feels more like regret than brutal rape.


"Rape" is clearly a coverup for REGRET. She was molested in her childhood and when she broke free she experimented with sex to try and get her freedom and power back. Now she regrets that so she cries rape. Even if she had to fake it, it wouldn't be that believable. 

She said she'd do the DNA test and move if you got back together? I'd say I'll get back with her long enough for her to do those things, get your answers, make her move and get the heck out. She is clearly hiding something or she'd have done the DNA test long ago. I'd post this on LS but I'd get banned for linking. I hate women who cry rape, it makes it harder for the women who were actually raped. Someone needs to let the truth out.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

hudson said:


> I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind.
> 
> So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. Seeing her gagging on a black mans penis until he ejaculates on her face. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me.
> 
> ...


Look, this is a crappy situation all around. I can't imagine what it felt like for you to see those videos. I'm not going to judge you for the things your parents raised you to believe.

However, a lot of what you write just doesn't add up. For starters, you say you want to be with her and try everything you can to reconcile. But then you also write about how you're dating other women, it seems like a lost cause and that you want to keep her hanging on until you figure this out. That's just wrong. You're just another in a long line of men that have abused her if you keep up that behavior. It's absolutely cheating if you're claiming you still want to be with her and work on things but then go off with other women.

So, she seemed to enjoy it in the videos but also explained that she was threatened with it becoming forcible if she didn't come across that way. On top of that, her XBF (who you know is a piece of trash for, at the very least, sending you that video) held her birth control pills hostage if she wasn't good at the sex. Now, maybe you don't believe her or can't get past it anyway. That's obviously your right and decision to make, but again, this guy has proven he's garbage.

How old was she in these videos? If she was a teenager, regardless of how much you think she came off as enjoying it, then it might be statutory rape. And look, you found out that at least parts of her story are demonstrably true with the court's record of her dad's trial! This is a women who has been sexually abused by men at every turn and her XBF is a predator that seized on that opportunity.

Her omission of these facts prior to the video being sent to you is upsetting, I get that. But try to be empathetic and realize she's giving you what you want now with the DNA test and agreeing to remove the XBF from the picture if he isn't the father.

My advice would be to stop seeing other women until you know exactly how you want to proceed with the situation. You say you love her, so try to make it work with the help of a therapist, because holy [email protected]#k do you both need that. No one here can pass judgement if you decide this is just too much to bear, but how you're handling this right now isn't fair to either of you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind.
> 
> So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. Seeing her gagging on a black mans penis until he ejaculates on her face. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me.
> 
> ...



This is totally understandable and fair. Not many who feel the way about sex you do would be able to come back from that. It's not fair to her either, she need the type of guy who doesn't care about this. They are out there. Does she know of this thread? I would think by now she does as LS had links to here deleted. I am sorry if I facilitated that by linking in the first few threads. The only other thing I would say is possibly emdr therapy could work, but it almost seems like cheating. Besides the images it's the way you think about it. Until you can truly understand that she is mostly a product of her environment then you won't really be over it. You need to be able to not have these images affect your mind forever, she needs that too. But even more so you need to get that this was all she new so it is logical that she would follow this path. That doesn't mean that it was the path she would have chosen if she was surrounded by it. That is a hard one for a lot of people because it requires a kind of nuance that most don't have. Again for me her age and history allow me to think this. Now if she was 20 and slowly built into this kind of lifestyle like some do, that I would have more a problem with, in the sense that I don't think I would be compatible with that person. 

My way of thinking is if you knew someone whose family culture is all about killing puppies, and then you ended up seeing a video of them killing puppies and enjoying it because they grew up learning this was a fun thing to do. Even if they now understood that killing puppies is not something they like or would want to do ever again. It would be hard to continue knowing that. 

She probably did enjoy it, but for the wrong reasons, she enjoyed it because she was taught that her value in life came from men's use of her body. This was all she knew and it was repeated over and over by all the men in her life. Remember when every adult male in your life sexually assaults you I doubt it's a stretch for it to be normal for strange men to do it too. It may even be easier as there is no expectation of being safe like you would be with a family member. No betrayal. 

Her youth played the biggest part of this because she had no real agency in her own destiny yet. The people and influences that were telling her this kind of thing is abuse were on the periphery, the day to day influences all normalized this behavior. Again this was not a fully formed adult woman thinking she is going to go wild because she wants lots of orgasms. Or she needed money to pay for school and using her sexuality was no different then using her physical energy to be a bartender. It wasn't even the idea that getting men to desire her is empowering so the more the better. I see all of those as is different. This kind of demeaning sex was a very normal part of her life and childhood, tragically. 

If you are willing to try then try at least a little more, she is an adult she knows the risk and she wants to try. There is still the problem of the boy. 

This is truly as sad situation. I feel bad for everyone involved.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I agree with @golfpanther you should not date while you are on the fence - it's not helpful to you, the other women and your F or Ex-F. Most typically recommend not dating after a traumatic relationship issue until you can wrap your head around it and are ok being alone a while first.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

hudson said:


> ...


Forgive me for this but i laughed when I read all of this. This reminds me of a movie where a wife is about to conceive a child and it comes out black. The dad doesn't care and cuddles with the child. All the while a nurse is standing there getting angrier as the seconds go by and finally goes into an outburst, saying "can't you see that the child is black and that your wife cheated on u!!!!??".
The dad retorts, "how dare you say something so racist!!!??" and then goes back to cuddling with the baby again.

It's very embarrassing to say the least.

Well you do what you have to do. If you want to take her back that should be your choice only.

If you think that u can look past this then u should go for it again (but try not to think about the ejaculation thing when u kiss her again).


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

And she is definitely hiding something about the XBF and the kid. It's totally illogical how she could NOT want to do a DNA-test when she could get rid of him from her/your life. After all, this is a man who supposedly tried to ram her with his car when he found out she was pregnant. 

How could she not want to do this test?


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

heyyo said:


> And she is definitely hiding something about the XBF and the kid. It's totally illogical how she could NOT want to do a DNA-test when she could get rid of him from her/your life. After all, this is a man who supposedly tried to ram her with his car when he found out she was pregnant with her son.
> 
> How could she not want to do this test?


How could she not want to do this test? You just pointed out that the XBF tried to ram her with a car when he found out she was pregnant. Imagine if she gets the test, finds out it isn't his and he finds out about it. I'd say she has a lot of reasons to fear what his reprisal might be.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Moderator warning

Please do not post or screenshot vulgar posts, including posts from other sites.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

golfpanther said:


> How could she not want to do this test? You just pointed out that the XBF tried to ram her with a car when he found out she was pregnant. Imagine if she gets the test, finds out it isn't his and he finds out about it. I'd say she has a lot of reasons to fear what his reprisal might be.


So some scrawny drug addict should be a threat? Why did she not contact the police in the first place?

Btw, shouldn't it be very easy to tell who the real father is if the kid is biracial? Maybe he isn't, I have no idea. But assuming he is it should not be that hard to find out (even if she refuses to do the test). Poor kid, will probably never find out who his real father is thanks to his mom hiding that information.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

heyyo said:


> So some scrawny drug addict should be a threat? Why did she not contact the police in the first place?
> 
> Btw, shouldn't it be very easy to tell who the real father is if the kid is biracial? Maybe he isn't, I have no idea. But assuming he is it should not be that hard to find out (even if she refuses to do the test). Poor kid, will probably never find out who his real father is thanks to his mom hiding that information.


The OP has stated that she's agreed to do the test. And no, even if the kid was mixed race it wouldn't help anyone involved know who the actual father was. It may disqualify the XBF, but since it hasn't I'm guessing the kid doesn't look obviously mixed race.

Him being scrawny doesn't mean he can't be a threat. He rammed his car into her; someone doesn't have to be 6'5'' and 240 pounds to do something like that again.

As far as not contacting the police to begin with, look at the thread and see the kinds of things she's been through. Even if you discount a lot of the stuff with the XBF, the OP confirmed she was sexually abused by her father. Victims of abuse find it incredibly hard to speak the truth about their abusers. As a victim of child abuse, I know the feeling all too well; you just want to feel safe and sometimes you make choices that seem to follow that logic when in reality they don't.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I started seeing new women because I wanted to get over my ex. We're broken up so while it might not have been a good choice it wasn't cheating. She is hurt by it and I'm sorry for that, she wasn't suppose to find out but she has nosy friends. I know that it isn't going to aid in reconciliation so if that is the route that I choose then I will of course stop seeing them. Right now I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm conflicted. I know that leading her on is wrong. Right now she is under the impression that we are probably going to get back together. 

Which reminds me, no to the best of my knowledge she doesn't know about this forum posting. When we talked yesterday she didn't show or say any sign that she knows of it's existence. I saw the screen shot of the posts on her thread if that is someone here doing that you need to stop. The last thing she needs is to read things like that. She scrubs herself to the point of having raw skin all over her body. She washes her hands, face and teeth dozens of times a day. She said it was OCD. Now I know that it was because she feels disgusting in her body. She doesn't need people making that worse. 

I told her tonight that I want her to do the DNA test asap. She said she will but I could tell she wasn't happy about it. She always says the child looks exactly like she did as a child but I disagree. She doesn't have any pictures of her childhood and he really doesn't look like her. She has blonde hair and blue eyes, our son has black hair and brown eyes. (For the record her XBF has blue eyes and blond hair). Genetics can be crazy but chances are if the XBF was the father they would have had a fair skinned, blond haired, blued eyed kid like themselves. They are both white as ghosts, our son is white but darker. Olive might be the correct term. The XBF's parents are the same, pale, light eyes and hair. My ex's father appears to have light brown or dark blond hair and blue or green eyes, from a picture in a newspaper article. Her mother based on her obituary picture had red hair and light eyes.

I don't think the XBF is the father. I told her that if she wants a chance she has to be completely open and no more hiding anything. She wants to talk about this tomorrow. I'm actually scared about what she's going to say. What next and will it be the truth or an excuse.

She told me that she was 18 and 19 in the videos. They were rarely taken until she turned 18, the ones that were only involved her XBF. She was a legal adult. 

My ex wants to try and she wants to give it her all. She has had a therapist for years, she said a decade. She wants to go with me and I will try it. She tried to touch my hand and the first thing I thought about was how many penises have been in that hand. Lord knows I need therapy if I'm going to be with her. She wants to give it her all, I need to as well. Starting with talking tomorrow and really trying to listen.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

hudson said:


> I started seeing new women because I wanted to get over my ex. We're broken up so while it might not have been a good choice it wasn't cheating. She is hurt by it and I'm sorry for that, she wasn't suppose to find out but she has nosy friends. I know that it isn't going to aid in reconciliation so if that is the route that I choose then I will of course stop seeing them. Right now I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm conflicted. I know that leading her on is wrong. Right now she is under the impression that we are probably going to get back together.
> 
> Which reminds me, no to the best of my knowledge she doesn't know about this forum posting. When we talked yesterday she didn't show or say any sign that she knows of it's existence. I saw the screen shot of the posts on her thread if that is someone here doing that you need to stop. The last thing she needs is to read things like that. She scrubs herself to the point of having raw skin all over her body. She washes her hands, face and teeth dozens of times a day. She said it was OCD. Now I know that it was because she feels disgusting in her body. She doesn't need people making that worse.
> 
> ...


The kid is (do i even need to say something so obvious?) obviously biracial.. he's either half arab or half black. Yes a kid with parents that are blond with blue eyes can get a child with brown hair or dark eyes, but not someone with olive skin, brown eyes and jet black hair. She did have sex with men of different racial backgrounds, so it's not really a stretch.

I don't want to be disrepectful or taunt u or anything now but u do come across as bit of a "cuckold" (please don't take that literally) with your reasoning, hudson. U will never get those thoughts out of your head and she will probably want to go back to that lifestyle again (that's what she likes sexually). 

But if you have feelings for her and want to give it a try you should go for it. But beware that things are never going to be the same again, no matter how many paid psychiatrists or marriage counselors you visit together.

I myself would run away as far as possible to escape the humiliation. But that's me and something like this have never happened to me (and probably never will).

Heck, I've read about men that didn't even experience 10% of what you have but ran sooner than the rooster could sing. You seem to have a very strong psyche.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> I started seeing new women because I wanted to get over my ex. We're broken up so while it might not have been a good choice it wasn't cheating. She is hurt by it and I'm sorry for that, she wasn't suppose to find out but she has nosy friends. I know that it isn't going to aid in reconciliation so if that is the route that I choose then I will of course stop seeing them. Right now I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm conflicted. I know that leading her on is wrong. Right now she is under the impression that we are probably going to get back together.
> 
> Which reminds me, no to the best of my knowledge she doesn't know about this forum posting. When we talked yesterday she didn't show or say any sign that she knows of it's existence. I saw the screen shot of the posts on her thread if that is someone here doing that you need to stop. The last thing she needs is to read things like that. She scrubs herself to the point of having raw skin all over her body. She washes her hands, face and teeth dozens of times a day. She said it was OCD. Now I know that it was because she feels disgusting in her body. She doesn't need people making that worse.
> 
> ...


Are you certain that if he isn't the biological father that he would lose his rights? This is not always the case. 

Anyway this is such a brutal situation I really don't know how to react to your posts. I would say the honorable thing to do with your ex is to be honest even if it is painful for her. Your feelings are not of malice. I think she knows this. It will at least give her fair warning if you begins to waffle. Also you need to nip her we are getting back together stuff in the bud right away. Right now you are just talking. (Ex we are just talking. I have no idea where my head is at or even what the risks are to me. If you see this as us getting back together that is entirely on you.) The one thing I see on these posts is I think you have accepted that this wasn't about her wanting to be a pornstar. That should at least give you the ability to forgive her lies. If at worst you end up just being friends after you both heal, that will be good for the child. 

Was this the first time you have had a serious talk? Does she know you know about her thread?

One other thing, even if she had told you the truth from the beginning, you need to research what pitfalls may be there for you if you do get involved with someone who has had such an abusive childhood. That can not be discounted. I would say this to you if everything was always great between you.

I personally believe that people have a nature, I believe this really determines a lot of who they will become. I don't take huge stock in development as far as a persons general morals. Such as the way they treat other people. As there are people who have had great childhoods that turn into monsters and those who have awful ones who become angels. But our childhoods gives us skills that help us make decisions and coping mechanisms to deal with the bad things in life. That is what I would be paying attention to.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

I've followed both threads and just have a few words to offer.

First, my heart breaks for you both... what a devastating situation. I pray that whatever path you choose it brings you both and her son peace.

I too had a very abusive childhood. My father was a violent alcoholic and I also suffered repeated molestation and oral rape at a very young age (not family thankfully, but my father's drinking buddy). One of my brothers was also physically abusive to me.

As a CSA survivor, I can tell you that for me I had to go through extensive therapy to reach a place where I could be open about my past, and realize that I did not cause or deserve the abuse. I am still damaged in many ways, and what I went through, while horrible, was mild compared to what your XF has survived.



sokillme said:


> But our childhoods give us skills that help us make decisions and coping mechanisms to deal with the bad things in life. That is what I would be paying attention to.



This was the comment that prompted me to chime in... I feel this is certainly true for me, and I believe of most survivors of abuse. Certainly some people choose unhealthy coping mechanisms, like drugs, but remember that your XF chose to get away from her past and chose a new life with you. That should say a lot to you.

Also, a previous post a while back mentioned XF not being able to reach O. I experienced this also where initial pleasurable sensations used to trigger me back to my childhood abuse and I was unable to climax. I worked very hard on this with my therapist and was able to resolve that issue. This is common among CSA and rape victims.

The only other thing I would point out is that her OCD tendencies you mention in your recent post are also classic of a rape victim. I can only imagine how shocking watching the video must have been for you... but clearly her XBF is a manipulative predator who is still trying to control her by blackmailing her and blowing up her life with you. That he would do that to her years later should speak volumes to you about what he is willing to do to continue to hurt and control her.

Certainly her past is harrowing. It's a lot for a partner to take on and I for one don't blame you if it is too much for you. But, her explanations make sense and her behavior supports her claim of being coerced, and I do hope the victim blaming can stop. This poor woman had suffered enough.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

He isn't half black, doesn't look it at all. He isn't nearly dark enough and doesn't have the hair (it's thin and straight). I doubt I'll ever know. Could do one of the ancestry type dna tests on him that say what regions you likely came from, though have no idea if they actually work. My ex did one on herself a while ago, subtract her results from our sons and that would be his other side.

It isn't guaranteed but there is a good chance. We have discussed it with lawyers. If he was active in my sons life then no, it wouldn't matter at this point. He isn't active in my son's life, he's a threat and has a record. The courts would *most likely* terminate his parental rights if in the best interest of the child and a step parent wanted to adopt (I do). 

It isn't the first time that we've talked but it is the first time the conversation has gone anywhere. I didn't talk about either of these websites. I don't think she knows, she would have said something. I checked her internet history when I had a minute, she never clears her history, and she has never been here. She did have screen shots of incredibly mean posts from the other site though. It's like she's trying to hurt herself. 

I have been researching relationships with rape victims and child assault victims. I want to be honest with her and tell her that I don't know if we're getting back together or not and how I'm feeling about it. It will hurt her. She said something last night that was similar to "I'm not good enough for you because I was raped". She doesn't want to hear that's why I'm unsure. I don't want her to be alone. Right now she has hope I don't want to take that away. I suppose I have to though. 


She claims to have been in therapy for around 10 years. To me that seems like a long time and some progress surely should have been made by now? She has never reached orgasm when we have sex. She did from having sex with the other man. She's capable. Not from normal, loving sex apparently. She told me that she was never able to orgasm. Maybe it could be worked on if she were willing. 

She has problems from her past that she always lied about. ie, the 'OCD tendencies' as you called them. She told me it was just OCD, not caused by anything. Every time I got annoyed that she had to get up to wash herself and interrupt what we were doing, could have been prevented. She has an eating disorder and she said it came from body shaming in elementary school. She has 'triggers' that I could have understood better if she had just told me. 

I'm not trying to victim blame. Though I know it seems like I am.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

My apologies @hudson... I was mostly referring to other posters on your thread regarding the victim blaming. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Eating disorders are also very common among CSA and rape survivors... the more details are revealed the more it all makes sense to her story.

You are absolutely right that if you were aware of her past you could have understood her triggers better. 

My own therapy was a few years to make progress and twice a week most of that time, and eventually including a sex therapist as well to help with the O issue once I had made sufficient progress on the abuse issues.

The abuse your XF suffered was far worse and went on far longer. It's likely she will need more than that to progress but she will always have triggers as do I.

Perhaps there is a blessing here in that this situation could be a catalyst for her to have a breakthrough in her therapy... perhaps she can now see that she did what she had to do to survive... and can finally forgive herself. I hope so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

hudson said:


> She claims to have been in therapy for around 10 years. To me that seems like a long time and some progress surely should have been made by now? She has never reached orgasm when we have sex. She did from having sex with the other man. She's capable. Not from normal, loving sex apparently. She told me that she was never able to orgasm. Maybe it could be worked on if she were willing.


Well that shouldn't be so hard to understand.. she's used to group sex and that's what gets her off. If you're open to (some men are) inviting more men into your sex life once a while (maybe even of different racial backgrounds, because that's what she likes) she will probably reach orgasm very fast. I'm not trying to provoke u here. Just stating facts.

Having mechanical "missionary" sex where you ejaculate into your hand when you've removed the condom (that's how she described your sex life) is not something that she's used to or is sexually aroused by (and not kissing or cuddling either). You'll have to get a little more "rough" or either invite more men (and maybe women) if you want her to orgasm.

People who are used to orgasm from one type of sex usually don't change to liking something else once they have gotten used to that type of sex.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

golfpanther said:


> The OP has stated that she's agreed to do the test. And no, even if the kid was mixed race it wouldn't help anyone involved know who the actual father was. It may disqualify the XBF, but since it hasn't I'm guessing the kid doesn't look obviously mixed race.
> 
> Him being scrawny doesn't mean he can't be a threat. He rammed his car into her; someone doesn't have to be 6'5'' and 240 pounds to do something like that again.
> 
> As far as not contacting the police to begin with, look at the thread and see the kinds of things she's been through. Even if you discount a lot of the stuff with the XBF, the OP confirmed she was sexually abused by her father. Victims of abuse find it incredibly hard to speak the truth about their abusers. As a victim of child abuse, I know the feeling all too well; you just want to feel safe and sometimes you make choices that seem to follow that logic when in reality they don't.


He didn't ram it. He drove very near her and then turned away.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You keep saying I am ignoring information YOU find important. How do you not get that it's only important to you and NOT OP.
> 
> I don't believe the other thread you rely on is true. I believe OP's ex-F is lying through her teeth to justify her prior behavior that she is now shamed of. I have seen no evidence to the contrary and in fact I have seen evidence supporting my beliefs.
> 
> But it doesn't even matter. Because her lying is enough to kill the marriage. And now @hudson has to just work through the grief at the loss of what he THOUGHT he had, but never really had.


As you know by now, hudson has given us a detailed post about what happened, why it hurts him and more. The information was *NOT* important to me. It was important to GET THE FULL PICTURE of the whole situation. If you ever been to court (and I have - and I've been generally good at evidence gathering in ways that lawyers like, unless I'm against them) - missing info, especially deliberate - is a problem. That was the point, hudson wanted to help - but had been refusing to listen, to learn to be able to come to a solution to his problem, but also HER problems. His decision affects 3 people directly and the people around him.

hudson's latest post confirms that what is on LS is in fact, his ex-F - Gibrale. This can be considered 100% a fact as of now. And no, she hasn't been lying through her teeth about "cheating", she has been hiding a dark past which is a nightmare that she or any little girl should never have experienced. Who she is today is NOT who she was 10+ years ago. So what he had today, he is choosing to lose. If he decides to do that, so be it. He needs to be gone out of her life.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hudson said:


> I told her tonight that I want her to do the DNA test asap. She said she will but I could tell she wasn't happy about it. She always says the child looks exactly like she did as a child but I disagree. She doesn't have any pictures of her childhood and he really doesn't look like her. She has blonde hair and blue eyes, our son has black hair and brown eyes. (For the record her XBF has blue eyes and blond hair).
> 
> My ex wants to try and she wants to give it her all. She has had a therapist for years, she said a decade. She wants to go with me and I will try it. She tried to touch my hand and the first thing I thought about was how many penises have been in that hand. Lord knows I need therapy if I'm going to be with her. She wants to give it her all, I need to as well. Starting with talking tomorrow and really trying to listen.


I am making this a specific post about DNA, I want you to read this first before anything else I'm about to write.

With you finally talking to her and us getting more understanding what is going on... yeah, YOU are right, she should get the DNA test! Even if you do NOT stay with her, I recommend that you tell her "if the tests show that xBF is not the biological father. Then you can cut him loose. Even if I do not stay in your life, it means that when or if you meet someone else - that xBF will not be able to sabotage your future any longer. You can have court orders keeping him from contacting you or harassing you in any way. Also, you or I may have legal course to file charges - including re-distribution of sex videos of Gibrale.

Now. The issue of her NOT wanting to do the DNA tests in the past. Your reasons were valid. But lets go ahead and FLIP this back to her possible point of view. *YOU HAVE* racial issues. If the DNA tests show that her white xBF isn't the father - then she has some explaining to do. How you view her and her son changes. And it already has. She may have other reasons, such as not wanting to add more shame by not knowing WHO the actual father is. Let her know, its not her fault, please. I think it is more likely that the baby is not xBF's. But strange things do happen.

Let's say that the DNA tests prove no relation to the child. Have her cut of all ties to this scum.
If you decide to reconcile - MOVE! Block, cut all ties to anyone of her past.
If you decide to MOVE - ON. Tell her to move to another part of the country, maybe help her move (load up a truck). And for both of you to cut ties from her past.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

This is my picture post... about race.

This is a black baby with white parents. They are the biological parents of this baby.









These are black parents, who made a white baby. They are biological.









This is a black couple with their biological boys.









Guess what... they are all human. It's a skin pigment - should they get rid of these children because of skin color?
There is NO SUCH thing as a pure-breed race. Actually, the more "pure" a group of people are, the more genetic defects tend to happen. This is one of the biggest reasons against inbreeding / incests. Review the videos I put here... where people have all kinds of mixtures... and since you are "from the south" - the likelihood of you having black DNA is much higher than white people of the north.

Next post...


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

TaDor said:


> This is my picture post... about race.
> 
> This is a black baby with white parents. They are the biological parents of this baby.
> 
> ...


HAHA! The first is an obvious case of infidelity or adoption. The other two are what we would call albinos.

Black people who are albinos still have different facial and skeletal features than white people



















So if hudson's step-son is somewhat black it should be noticeable


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hudson said:


> I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind.


Uh, yeah - that's being a racist. And no, its not engrained IN you. That is a choice. I used to know a ex-skinhead who was involved with the death of a black man as a teen. He did his time in juvi prison but made the choice to be a better human being. He got help from others and his friends include homosexuals and people of all colors. His wife is very much outside his race and they have children.

My grandmother, born around 1910 - dropped N-word bombs before I was born... it how she grew up at the time. A child of the south. Obviously, I am older than you. As a child of the 70s - as I stated before, she'd comment to herself out-loud, how attractive some black football players were. I live in the south myself. I've watched video of my wife when she was a child in the 1990s that her family did not want me to see. She and her siblings were having fun and said a few "funny' things that involved the N-word, even heard at least one adult say the N-word. I actually like the video as I see some of our son's personality in her - with her blonde hair and blue eyes. I am not white, I am obviously a person of black DNA and my white grandmother got over it. Our son is lighter than me and is beautiful. He is loved by my wife's siblings and his grandparents - and I like them as well. I didn't marry my wife because she was white - but who she is. I've been sexual with all the colors... we're all compatible.

People DO grow out of their racism and bigotry if they choose to.

I will edit-out/shorten sexual details as they are not required for my response.


> So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me.


This is the worst part of the video - the black men. This is what really got you. This is YOU being honest. Can you see why she would NOT want you to know. You maybe a pretty nice guy but you have some faults - you are not perfect, you never will be. Gibrale also has her faults. She was willing to live with your racist ideas because you were otherwise a nice guy and a possible good father to her son... which, her fear of him being black - would make you run away. It would have been nice if she was more upfront with you. This is why therapy and self-improvement takes a long while - a person may require more info to digest and learn from problems. Dude, its just skin... A heart or lung from a black man is just as compatible as white if you ever needed such a thing.

I'm sorry man, you have issues you are not aware of. You are sensitive to sex. And I am sure you watch porn like most other normal men... but you watched a porn of your fiancee in a gangbang. You should have turned it off ASAP once you confirmed it was her face. I think that its disturbing that you actually watched the whole thing - however long it was. But *PLEASE *look at it this way, YOU WERE PLAYED by the xBF. He shot you in the heart with the one thing he knew would destroy you and Gibrale. He is laughing to the bank about it... he is boasting about it to his jerk friends. He will spend his entire life laughing at you because YOU let him win. You *LET HIM HURT YOUR *fiancee, someone you are supposed to love and protect.

When I say you need therapy, I don't mean it insult... but to help you. It doesn't matter if you stay with Gibrale or leave her. As you and women get older - your pool of "low-sex partner" females will diminish. 



> Not once in the video did she try and get up, stop them or tell them she didn't want to do it. She wasn't laying there emotionless either. She was an equal participant shared between 4 men. She clearly said "F me harder" in one. And her having what seemed like a very intense orgasm while being with 3 men.
> 
> If she told me that it was a fun, enjoyable experience I would have believed it without a doubt. It did not look like rape. I'm not saying it wasn't but it didn't have any resemblance to rape and that makes it harder to think of it as rape.


The RAPE that we have been talking about - is from her childhood and into adulthood. When her xBF shared her with his friends, bartered her body for drugs and booze - that was rape, but more - it was mental conditioning. There are men like that all over the world. I've dealt with some and put one of them in jail. They are sick sexual predators. She is trying to enjoy the best out of a situation that was her life. If she LOVED doing those things, she would be doing that TODAY. How long have you known her? 5 years. And since you meet her, she has been loyal and otherwise - honest about everything else - but her child-hood which completely disgusts you. But get this - she LIVED IT and survived. 

About the "enjoying"... even a 12year old boy - being molested by a grown man, will have an orgasm. Look at documentaries on child-sex trade, where they are prostitutes in the USA and 3rd world countries. Some will make the best of a crappy situation. Look at women who are cutters - in which they cut their own flesh to feel alive (I don't fully understand). As a poster of CSA has stated, she too - could not enjoy normal sex without help.



> I know that her family life was rough. Before this information came out I knew her dad was abusive, her mom committed suicide and my X was sent to live with family. ~ To every man in her life, she is someone who was seen as nothing more than a sexual object. Proof of her teenage sexual encounters could probably be found online as well, but it just looks like she was an amateur porn star not a rape victim. I feel like a dumb ass for believing it wasn't consensual.


Yes, every male person saw her as a penis pleasure creature. You are likely the first and only person who has shown her much more respect for her... something she so desperately doesn't want to LOSE. And according to another post later on - She thinks she is not worthy of you or anyone else, that she is a *****. You have severally hurt a CSA woman. You have set her back a few years by judging her from her abusive PAST, not the woman she is today. Think about it.

In many Islamic countries, if a young woman's is not properly covered up (she could be raped even if covered) - and is raped and beaten, it's her fault. Afterward - she is an outcast from her family and may face jail or death because she is now "unclean". How do you feel about that? Is it right? I don't think so. Common sense says "NO" and I think you would agree that its NOT right, that its NOT fair.

Apply that to yourself and how you have treated Gibrale. It isn't much different, is it? At least one of your friends has publicly shamed and made fun of her gangbang video. I am not impressed.



> We had a normal sex life, she didn't have all these red flags and warning signs going off. There are red flags that lead me to think it wasn't rape just regret, such as not doing a DNA test, living next to a "rapist" when she can't handle seeing her XBF or cousin. She has seen her cousin once since moving out, I was with her and she was a basket case. She can give her reasons but it still doesn't line up. She has given me her reasoning for it, that if she didn't act like she enjoyed it she was beaten and tied down to be raped with no rules. If she went along with it and did a good job at pleasing them she wouldn't be restricted and her XBF would protect her from it getting too rough. Her XBF paid for birth control pills that he only let her have if she was good at the sex. She had to get each days pill from him which made her go see him.


Re-read my posts for possible reasons, which I will continue to stand by them. I also stated above why as have others. I have provided links to RAINN.

THIS is why you need to sit and have a nice long talk with her. I mean, you tell her to be honest and you also tell her you are trying to figure this out. No more lies from her. No more dating other women if you are in limbo or reconciliation. I quoted her words. Her words are there. She LOVED how you treated her in bed. She felt safe with you. Take that to heart.

And yes, there are people like that - forcing others to do sexual videos, prostitution, etc. She was likely more condition to not put up a fight... I don't know. Just ask for her to be as honest as possible. But yeah, there are "pimps" who are there to make sure their property doesn't get too damaged - hurts the resale value. Women who are prostitutes get lots of ROUGH sex from their johns. Married men who are gentle to their wives - would go out and bang, choke, beat-up and abuse prostitutes. The world isn't rainbow and unicorns - there are lots of bad people out there.



> It helps me understand but to be honest I don't think it's something that I will ever be able to get out of my head. When I look at her face I think of the 20 dudes that left their seed there. When I think about kissing her I think of the 20 c**ks that were in her mouth. I have doubts that I will ever be able to get past those thoughts.


If you don't think you can do it, or make a serious effort to try. Then tell her and exit her life. She is a much stronger person than you are and needs a stronger man in her life. I am not talking about muscles. Guess what, that semen is long gone. Even the sperm in your balls only live for about 24hrs - either ejaculate or the body absorbs them. There are no seeds of them in her body. The only biological evidence is her son. A baby came out of her body, but you had no problems going there. Sorry that I don't sympathy over this matter. I can some-what understand. But you are also talking about the sperm from her father and grandfather... and therefor you are shaming her for things that are out of her control. If she had better parents, this things that happened to her would likely not have happened.



> When we were talking last night she said she'd do the DNA test but was extremely uncomfortable and awkward while saying it. She is hiding _something_. She told me she'd try to get XBF removed if he isn't the father and we can move. If I go back to her.
> 
> We talked for hours last night and she thought it went really well. To me it didn't. It confirmed my thoughts that I won't be able to get over this. I don't see her the same way anymore, fair or not. I don't want to hurt her or lead her on. She knows that I've been seeing other women and she almost feels like it's cheating because I told her to give us time.


Good, you talked. Be slow and calm about it. Ask her to please try and explain her thoughts on it. She knows you already saw her have sex with black men. She has fears and you also severly hurt her trust IN YOU by your actions. (Again - your shock is understandable - She knows YOU quite well and you have done things she expected)

If the DNA proved NOT biological father - then, as your lawyers have stated - she can remove the xBF. Move. Move far away. Refer to my comment above.



> I want to be with her. I don't know if I can ever be with her again in a way that would be fair to her. The selfish part of me wants to keep her hanging on until I figure it out. She still wants me to go back to her. I am open to trying counselling together and alone to attempt to work past this. More and more it seems like a lost cause. I want to try everything that I can to reconcile but if it doesn't work she will be hurt even more.
> 
> I've been doing reading to try and understand her better. I keep reading over and over than many childhood sexual assault survivors go into porn, stripping, prostitution. It feels more like regret than brutal rape.


Thats kind of good. You still want to be there for her. She still wants you - even WITH YOUR FAULTS. You only saw a video... however many minutes you watch. She has YEARS of bad memories in her head, that she cannot erase... her pain is far more than anything you can imagine. Can you handle that? She didn't get into porn, stripping or any of that - she kept getting help. She *DID* the work to improve her life. Many - not all, not most survivors of CSA go into adult-work, especially those who GET HELP.

I'd like to make recommendations: If you take the challenge to prove you are a bigger man than the xBF. That your pain is a fraction of hers. Then do the plans you have discussed (DNA / moving / counseling) - Look at online documentation and/or books on getting bigotry out of your life. Bigot + morals do not go hand in hand. If you agree with that, let her know that you are willing to work on that aspect of yourself. Especially if her son is a mixed child. This will help her OPEN up to YOU. It will reduce her fears about you. I'd bring this up early before talking about DNA tests, etc.

You have a lot to learn about CSA and Gibrale his on the harsh side of the spectrum and is doing very good, all things considered. One of my GFs/friends from my 20s was raped a few times around the age of 13 by 2 or 3 boys. She spent the next 25 years keeping that in, never telling her parents or most people - if she did when she was a child - they would have helped her! She had drug and drinking problems. She had sexual problems. I was there when she finally told her 80 yr old mom who never knew. This poor woman, was smarter than her sister in every way - but the rape had damaged her, she didn't go to college, she went from bad man to bad man, never children, no nice career and house like her cheating sister, she wrecked her self over and over again. (She had gone down hill with bad men after we broke up) She re-lived those rapes in her head, crying nightmares - up until she died. I did help her out of her drugs and drinking in the end, but her health was already damaged when she got sick and left the world within a week.

Also let her know that you would like and support her going to sexual therapy (whatever that is appropriate) to learn how to have orgasms with the man she loves, which she wants.

Gibrale is very hurt. She will survive without you. But its your call to help her heal and be a part of her life - that will give her a huge boost in her continued recovery. May help with her OCD, scratching at her skin... that SHE is not DIRTY. Remember, your actions PROVED that she is a dirty disgusting woman. It sounds like your Gibrale is physically similar to my wife who is 5-2" / 100lbs. When we first meet, she didn't want me to see her naked. She was ashamed of her body. It took me about 2 weeks to get her to stop shaming herself - she's not 100% there, but huge improvement. Other men in her past have insulted her by saying her breasts were too small, etc. I am not like that to any woman and never to my wife.

I have not changed my opinion on the Leave or stay. I think you've made mistakes, as did she. If you love each other - do something about it. Otherwise, you need to go away. There is no middle-ground.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

heyyo said:


> HAHA! The first is an obvious case of infidelity or adoption. The other two are what we would call albinos.
> 
> Black people who are albinos still have different facial and skeletal features than white people
> 
> So if hudson's step-son is somewhat black it should be noticeable


Usually, but not always. And mixed-race is not the same as albinos.

And no, the first photo of the white couple with black baby are biological.
Article on white couple with baby: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-two-white-people-to-produce-a-black-baby

This photo is that of twin sisters. This happens quite a bit.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@heartbroken50 : thanks for adding your experience and knowledge into this thread.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hudson said:


> He isn't half black, doesn't look it at all. He isn't nearly dark enough and doesn't have the hair (it's thin and straight). I doubt I'll ever know.


I am NOT white - that much is for sure. But my hair is also thin and straight, my features are more white. There are some actors who are half-black that you would not have known.

It isn't guaranteed but there is a good chance. We have discussed it with lawyers. If he was active in my sons life then no, it wouldn't matter at this point. He isn't active in my son's life, he's a threat and has a record. The courts would *most likely* terminate his parental rights if in the best interest of the child and a step parent wanted to adopt (I do). 
[/QUOTE]
If DNA tests shows NEG - then the courts should remove him because of his record - done. You should NOT adopt unless you are marrying his mother because you love her - not for the child.



> It isn't the first time that we've talked but it is the first time the conversation has gone anywhere. I didn't talk about either of these websites. I don't think she knows, she would have said something. I checked her internet history when I had a minute, she never clears her history, and she has never been here. She did have screen shots of incredibly mean posts from the other site though. It's like she's trying to hurt herself.


There is a 3rd site involved? If so - please DON'T bother telling us anything about it. This is enough to keep up with both sites.
But I'll tell you what I read from her on LS. She loves you, she was scared. She has not done anything to you behind your back. She spoke very highly of you... and if I was on that site, (and not here) I'd have told her to drop you ASAP - that you are not worthy of her. She hasn't said a single thing to insult you. She is beating herself up over this.



> I have been researching relationships with rape victims and child assault victims. I want to be honest with her and tell her that I don't know if we're getting back together or not and how I'm feeling about it. It will hurt her. She said something last night that was similar to "I'm not good enough for you because I was raped". She doesn't want to hear that's why I'm unsure. I don't want her to be alone. Right now she has hope I don't want to take that away. I suppose I have to though.


Be honest at this point wuth, but just stop shaming her. This is on YOU of not being able to handle her sexual abuse. If you leave, tell her you can't handle it. As I said before, more than once - she IS hurting more than YOU. Imagine your own pain, your own tears, your disgusts. Magnify it 100x more - that is Gibrale. You'll get over it in a year without therapy, she'll spend years ripping herself apart for not sharing that part of her past. 

You cannot imagine her pain. Her kid is going to feel it for years as well. But you cannot have the kid without the mom. They are a packaged deal. That's reality.



> She claims to have been in therapy for around 10 years. To me that seems like a long time and some progress surely should have been made by now? She has never reached orgasm when we have sex. She did from having sex with the other man. She's capable. Not from normal, loving sex apparently. She told me that she was never able to orgasm. Maybe it could be worked on if she were willing.


If you are learning more about CSA, then you'll hear from experts that what she is going through is typical, but is treatable for many. She seems such a strong woman, so I'd put her in the likely camp.
Also, there are women who can't or don't have orgasms that have not been raped. But another statistic shows most women don't orgasm as much with PIV compared to oral and other stimulations. There is sex therapy for men to get over that issue as well. In reality, 1/3 men love giving oral, 1/3 give oral as their duty and the final 1/3 refuse. You don't have to do it all the time, but more women than not appreciate it. I have been with a few divorced women who never had a man go down on them. They were like "gross"... I am not boosting, just matter of fact. Once I got down there before they could stop me - it took about 5 seconds to change their minds, and never a complaint since. Intercourse + oral greatly increases chances of female orgasm. 

Here is one but many, a place to start about why/how many have orgasms: The Orgasm Gap: The Real Reason Women Get Off Less Often Than Men and How to Fix It | Alternet
So, go buy some books on sexual positions and technics. You want to give the woman you love pleasure? Time to go to school, even I have a couple of books I haven't read yet on learning new positions and ways of love making. Yeah, there is always NEW things to learn and you BOTH will enjoy it.

The OCD / trigger issues of not telling you were her fear of you, not understanding. This is something you are just learning. If I was in your situation 20 years ago, I'd almost be lost to a big degree - like you. 



> I'm not trying to victim blame. Though I know it seems like I am.


You are trying not to... good. But you have been, but you were not aware. You were in complete SHOCK from the video that some scum-bag low-life (think of much harsher words - okay) and through your upbringing that sex is "dirty" to some degree - you handled it badly. I won't completely fault you on that, okay. You refused to listen. You refused to know what was going on. But somehow you came here. You now know much more today than you did a week ago. Right? 

Now, imagine how much you may learn in another 2 weeks, with books and maybe even MC (Marriage counseling - even thou you are not married, its for couples). I would like for you to do even better. Call the 1800 number for RAINN and talk to someone. Here is the number: 800.656.HOPE (4673) (weblink too: https://www.rainn.org/about-national-sexual-assault-telephone-hotline )
That number is for CSA but its also for people just like you. The calls are confidential.

I am not an expert... so they can provide more support info for you. I'm 10+ years older than you and yet I still have things to learn.

I hope you have a few hours of time to learn more about CSA. That her past has been verified by you (checking court records) and only one area - which is a BIG ONE - she kept from you because she shamed herself over her past. If you can be a better man, get past bigotry, try to understand her position - and ask of her to never lie or omit anything ever again as well as promise the same to her, you will both heal. She deserves to be loved and held. And if you can learn it yourself and help teach her that her childhood was NOT HER FAULT, it will do wonders. She should even reduce her OCD issues. I hope so.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

TaDor said:


> Usually, but not always. And mixed-race is not the same as albinos.
> 
> And no, the first photo of the white couple with black baby are biological.
> Article on white couple with baby: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-two-white-people-to-produce-a-black-baby
> ...


You know that is a satirical website, right? They have another article with the name, "Homosexuality was the cause for the extinction of dinosaurs". How could you fall for that? If two white parents ever had a black baby with black skeletal features it would be the most insane news ever.

And the children (where one has blonde curly hair and the other one is dark) are obviously mixed race. It has happened many times for mixed race couples (especially when they are triracial or quadracial) where they receive offspring where one is light and the other one is dark. 

You proved nothing.

Again, if the kid has some black blood it should be easy to tell.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Okay, got me there. On more reputable sites, its considered very rare and not so obvious.

And with that, it shows how fake crap can fool people, but at least it was a parody.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I don't hate black people, any other race, gays, trans, and whatever else can be said. I'm in Canada, I have more non-white friends than white friends. I live in a city that has a very large non-white and non-English (or French) speaking population. Black men with white women in theory is whatever, who cares. I know it should be that way. Any other race combination doesn't get a second glance. Black women with a white man, doesn't really either. It's black men-white women that unnecessarily make me uncomfortable and think the woman is a... 4 letter word for promiscuous. Most of them are trashy-looking. Yes, I know that is wrong and no I don't like it. In my teens and early 20's I had a lot more hate and that would have been racism. I have been turned off by women in the past when I learned they had a black man in the past. Am I proud of that? No and I don't like admitting it either.

If I am to be honest (and again I know it's my problem). I may find it worse when I see a black man-white woman with kids. Or just a white woman out with her clearly half black kids. So no, I don't want the boy to be half black. I don't want to look at him and feel the way I do about others. That's my own problem that I need to work on. It is entirely possible that he is half black. She was having unprotected sex with at least 2 of them. I don't know the statistics but I want to say I feel in the minority being white here. Half-black isn't the only possibility, in this city and the cities surrounding there are large populations of various Asians. He has the olive skinned green undertones. He has very fine features, I don't look at him and think that he looks black. Maybe I'm in denial. 

My parents, while they have been getting better about it, are racist. No doubt about it. They don't drop comments publicly anymore but will in the privacy of their home. So the boy being half-black would make me uncomfortable having him around my parents. It's not something they would ever have to know. Until he has a kid and it comes out black, which is why I don't understand my ex telling her son that he's white. That's a different issue. 

Everything in the videos was bad but yes seeing her being banged by a couple black guys and orgasming from it was what gets to me the most. She only has two close friends who are men, one who she is very close to is black. He's a really nice guy, I like him. As far as I know they have never had sex but he has known her for 16 years, right in her "prime", and he use to flirt with her (in high school and college). He's joked that he tried to get her to go out with him but she was too shy. He's also joked that his competition (for her) was another friend of hers who is from Iraq or Afghanistan, and some dude from South America or Philippines (can't remember). It's like she has a thing for other races. Anyway, now I am wondering if she slept with them too or if one of them are the father. Unlikely but it goes through my thought process. She didn't have her son circumcised, which for white American men the statistic is something like 90% are circumcised. Canada is probably similar for the white families. It shouldn't but it leads me to believe that she prefers "foreign" guys and uncut penises. I'm obviously cut. 

My opinions on this are my own faults and yes need to be worked on. My ex knows my opinion on these things and if she knows the boy is half-black I can see why she would withhold that information. In her eyes, I don't like women who sleep around and I don't like black-white kids. Of course she wouldn't want to tell me the truth. We are going to talk about it soon so hopefully we can get somewhere and not stall again. It's crap like this that she has held onto and held inside for years. Constantly thinking I'm going to hate her or her son if she tells me the truth. I don't know why she wanted to be with me and dealt with that for years, she may never have told me. That shouldn't be the foundation of our relationship/marriage.

I have no reason to lie here. I rarely watch porn. I don't like the content and find very little that appeals to me. I understand where you are coming from re: me watching my ex's videos. I wasn't sitting there masturbating while I watched. I needed to know what I was dealing with. The first time I closed it immediately. As soon as it was opened it was clearly her. I doubt it was up for a second even. The second time I opened it because she was lying through her teeth about it, I skipped through it. 

Her XBF wins. Yes he hurt me, yes he got me to leave her. My ex told me she thought those videos were long gone. Her XBF wasn't the only one with access to the videos. She's worried someone else will leak them now. She works at a children's hospital she'd be out a job if people searched her name and found porno's. I'm having a friend of mine see if he can find anything online, if he can't I doubt anyone could. He found something on a "rape porn" website that could be her. The face was turned away and I haven't looked at it, he said I don't want to. Her first name was attached to it, which isn't a very popular name and it was posted 8 years ago. 

I know that dealing with this is worse for her than it is for me. I feel bad for not being able to be there for her and support her. I hate that I'm not "man enough" to put it aside. I know that she is hurting very badly. Her son has told me that she's always upset and tries to hide it but he can hear her cry at night. He said sometimes she gets into his bed with him. She has an eating disorder and he said she hasn't been eating. He doesn't know she has an eating disorder but noticed that she's not eating. Part of her OCD is frequently washing and scratching at her hands and body. It's been worse because her fingers were red and raw. At one point when we were talking her sleeve slipped back and her arm was covered in scratches and raw spots. I've never seen it that bad. She can't not eat. She's 100lb at best, and 5'2. When she begs me to stay or go home I know that she REALLY needs it. Leaving makes me a huge ****. I wish I could push my selfishness aside and help her. 

I understand a man orgasming from assault, it's more mechanical. Everything I have read about women is that they NEED to be relaxed and feel comfortable/safe to reach orgasm, especially a strong one. She shouldn't have felt either of those. She won't have them on her own either, she told me she couldn't now I assume she didn't want to. 

I know that I need to stop seeing other women if I'm going to put in a strong effort. I'm going to do that. My ex knows that I've seen other women and she's asked if I've done anything with them and begged me to stop seeing them because in her mind I'll never want her if I have other options. I said that wasn't true and her response was something similar to "Why would you want a disgusting, used up ***** when you could have someone who hasn't been used by every man to dump his sperm into". That's how she sees herself and I didn't react the right way. I've never heard her speak like that and didn't know what to say. I was stunned and couldn't come up with any words, not even to tell her that's not true or not how I see her. The silence made her think that I was agreeing. The more I try to help her the more I screw her up. 



> But yeah, there are "pimps" who are there to make sure their property doesn't get too damaged - hurts the resale value. Women who are prostitutes get lots of ROUGH sex from their johns.


This makes sense. The sex was filmed many times after she turned 18. I only saw the parts that her XBF let me see. The parts that looked like she enjoyed it. It's not the whole story. She has a very long scar going down her back, I've asked her about it and she told me a story, later I asked her about it again and she gave me a different story. I didn't call her out on it just left it alone. She won't let me touch her there with the reasoning that it hurts. I don't think it actually hurts I think it's a trigger for her. She won't let me kiss or breathe on her neck because she "doesn't like it". When we fought she always initiated sex, I thought it was make up sex. Now I believe it had deeper roots than that. She has never said no to sex. Sometimes I had a feeling that she didn't want to so we didn't but I had to be the one to say no. 



> If DNA tests shows NEG - then the courts should remove him because of his record - done. You should NOT adopt unless you are marrying his mother because you love her - not for the child.


Where we live the courts usually won't terminate a father's rights unless a step-parent wants to adopt them. 



> There is a 3rd site involved? If so - please DON'T bother telling us anything about it. This is enough to keep up with both sites.


No, there is not a 3rd site that I'm aware of. I must have worded myself wrong. Well I suppose there is but I'm not going to link it. She sent me it last night. Over 10 years ago she posted on a forum about her family life and her XBF. She was still involved with him when she posted it. She's gone back every few years and updated it, including when she met me. Has over 500,000 views. Mixed feelings about it. It further confirms things she has told me but half a million people knew more about her than I did. I'm not posting that here. 



heyyo said:


> Well that shouldn't be so hard to understand.. she's used to group sex and that's what gets her off. If you're open to (some men are) inviting more men into your sex life once a while (maybe even of different racial backgrounds, because that's what she likes) she will probably reach orgasm very fast. I'm not trying to provoke u here. Just stating facts.
> 
> Having mechanical "missionary" sex where you ejaculate into your hand when you've removed the condom (that's how she described your sex life) is not something that she's used to or is sexually aroused by (and not kissing or cuddling either). You'll have to get a little more "rough" or either invite more men (and maybe women) if you want her to orgasm.
> 
> People who are used to orgasm from one type of sex usually don't change to liking something else once they have gotten used to that type of sex.





> You don't have to do it all the time, but more women than not appreciate it. I have been with a few divorced women who never had a man go down on them. They were like "gross"... I am not boosting, just matter of fact. Once I got down there before they could stop me - it took about 5 seconds to change their minds, and never a complaint since. Intercourse + oral greatly increases chances of female orgasm.


Glad to see she went into detail about our sex life, which seems irrelevant to this situation. I've never taken the condom off to ejaculate into my hand, that's odd. When we first started having sex with each other I did pull out and ejaculate in the condom but never removed it pre-climax. Either you read wrong or she's making stuff up. It's starting to get hard not reading that website. 

She wanted to forego condoms. She has an IUD. We never have gone without a condom. She got upset about it sometimes but I don't want to ditch them until/if we're married. Yesterday she said that made her feel like I thought she was disgusting and dirty, even though I didn't know about any of this. 

Oral isn't for me, giving or receiving. I'm not a selfish prick who expect her to do it and not me. We tried it, I wasn't into it and she was the one that wanted to stop. When she tried giving me oral she stared at me the entire time which added to the discomfort. To be frank, seeing her with my **** in her mouth was not a sexy thing to me. Giving her oral killed the mood fast. She's never complained to me about it.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

Is this very similar to your X's upbringing and life, hudson? She had the same type of upbringing involving brutal rapes at an early age and became a drug addict and sexually promiscuous with black (drug addicted and older) men. Later she entered porn and I don't know what has happened to her now. It's very tragic but that's how most of these women end up after an upbringing like that.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@hudson I feel like you just opened the wrong door in life and don't know how to shut it.

There's so much about you, your life experiences, orientations, views about sex and family, etc that make you completely incompatible with this woman.

It's NOT about you getting comfortable with black male / white female relationships or interracial babies. Those are red herrings. Sure it's always good to reflect on racial undercurrents in our upbringing, but that really has nothing to do with your problems.

You're a nice guy and want to be a KISA. Very bad idea that won't end well. You want to save her and the kid and are afraid to leave. You want her pain to go away.

That's all understandable and noble. But you're wholly unqualified to save this woman. If you told me you've been asked to conduct brain surgery next week and already bought a book on it, I'd say you'd be more qualified to handle that

My dad was a shrink - very, very good - the other shrinks called him "the guru". He worked for the VA with WWII POWs, guys who were on the Bataan Death March, guys from Korea and Vietnam. He told me you don't cure people you help them live their lives. He parted ways with many patients I think if they couldn't be helped.

He was completely qualified but I'm sure he'd tell me to walk away - that I couldn't fix this situation.

So you're signing up to have a very limited relationship from someone with perhaps less to give than you need. You'll be a caretaker.

Maybe some other guy could do that but it's definitely not you. That's not an insult - it's an observation. And I think she is using you because you're the farthest thing from her troubled past she could find. You don't even watch porn or like oral which puts you a statistical minority. A safe minority for her.

Get her the counseling she needs but I'd recommend pulling the bandaid off. After you get distance and it's clear there won't be a romantic relationship you can always come back as a friend who emotionally supports her from time to time. You are both much better suited for that type of relationship.

That's why my name is TTH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You're a nice guy and want to be a KISA. Very bad idea that won't end well. You want to save her and the kid and are afraid to leave. You want her pain to go away.


This is accurate. I want her to stop hurting and stop feeling so terribly about herself, yet I'm contributing to that problem. Every time I try and help her I make her pain worse. I don't want to be the cause of her pain and I might not be the cause but I'm a factor. Last night I went to see her so we could talk. We did talk. We had a long conversation and cleared the air on some things. I thought it was going well and she relaxed a lot. One thing led to another and we had sex. Horrible sex, mind you. Definitely no 'happy ending'. She was upset and wanted me to stay overnight, I didn't want to at all. I stayed for a bit then left because my being there was hurting her more. 

Her whole body was covered in red marks from rubbing herself so much, with her OCD being on overdrive. She has rough sponges that she uses to wash her whole body and scrub the crap out of it. I was there for 7 hours. In that time she washed her hands and forearms 24 times and was very fidgety with other parts of her body. She showered once and showered before I got there because her hair was wet. She's clearly lost weight that should couldn't afford to lose. I'm the cause of that. Leaving her triggered it to go into overdrive, and I know seeing the video didn't help. She has been having nightmares and flashbacks since seeing that. I don't think she watched the whole thing. 

I don't look at her the same and don't feel the same about her. That's on me, not her. If I can't look at her without feeling a foreign feeling similar to disgust then I cannot be with her. She doesn't deserve that. She was so upset last night after we had sex that I debated calling the hospital to get her admitted for suicide watch. She said something similar to "You think I'm disgusting, everyone thinks I'm a wh**e. What's the point in trying anymore. I'm only useful for a f**k and chuck. Maybe too used up for even that. Wh**ing myself is the only way anyone will want anything to do with me." I called a friend of hers to go stay with her. I was hurting her more by being there. I'm not the right man to help her. 

I understand that severing our romantic relationship means severing the relationship with the child as well. She may be open to allowing that but everyone needs a clean break. She needs to be able to move on, get healthy and be a good mom. I don't think I will see either of them again. It hurts like hell but I think that's how it needs to be.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

hudson said:


> This is accurate. I want her to stop hurting and stop feeling so terribly about herself, yet I'm contributing to that problem. Every time I try and help her I make her pain worse. I don't want to be the cause of her pain and I might not be the cause but I'm a factor. Last night I went to see her so we could talk. We did talk. We had a long conversation and cleared the air on some things. I thought it was going well and she relaxed a lot. One thing led to another and we had sex. Horrible sex, mind you. Definitely no 'happy ending'. She was upset and wanted me to stay overnight, I didn't want to at all. I stayed for a bit then left because my being there was hurting her more.
> 
> Her whole body was covered in red marks from rubbing herself so much, with her OCD being on overdrive. She has rough sponges that she uses to wash her whole body and scrub the crap out of it. I was there for 7 hours. In that time she washed her hands and forearms 24 times and was very fidgety with other parts of her body. She showered once and showered before I got there because her hair was wet. She's clearly lost weight that should couldn't afford to lose. I'm the cause of that. Leaving her triggered it to go into overdrive, and I know seeing the video didn't help. She has been having nightmares and flashbacks since seeing that. I don't think she watched the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's going to hurt for a long time too more than likely.

But I'm sure most of us on here are proud of you. It's not fair what happened to her and it certainly wasn't fair to find out about her past from her truly horrific ex. However, it's great that you acknowledge that your behavior toward her during this hasn't helped either of you. Accepting that responsibility is huge.

It's really tough, but sometimes two people just can't come back from something and the longer you were one foot in, one foot out the worse it was going to be for both of you. I'm sorry you had to go through this, but let her go so you can both find happiness.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

> " It's black men-white women that unnecessarily make me uncomfortable and think the woman is a... 4 letter word for promiscuous."


 - you have racial issues. As with your parents. That has you screwed up more than anything else. Most black people are law-abiding citizens. The ratio of drug-use is the same for white people... so there is a lot of white people doing drugs. The typical child molester is white males, if we go with that stereotype, should I saw you are a child molester? I know lots of black people who don't do drugs, don't do criminal activities. I know of white people who have meth and other drug problems, violent. How about them nazi's during WWII - where they nice? Nope, they tortured, raped and killed women and children. How would you think that would be fair on you?

How about this... locate a black church, go to it. You will find nice people there. Hang around a white trailer trash park, and you may find bad people there. In the USA, a white couple raped and killed their adopted white daughter. Had nothing to do with blacks, did it?

Because of the black men who had sex with Gibrale - that is likely your biggest stumbling block here for which everything you are deciding on. As you stated, black women with white men = no problem.

So yeah, it's amazing that she was willing to have anything to do with you. She saw the good parts of you and weighed them against the bad.



> I understand a man orgasming from assault, it's more mechanical. Everything I have read about women is that they NEED to be relaxed and feel comfortable/safe to reach orgasm, especially a strong one. She shouldn't have felt either of those. She won't have them on her own either, she told me she couldn't now I assume she didn't want to.


Again... you know little about such things. Truth (not to be insulting) you are sexually inexperienced and Gibrale has been abused. Maybe that is something she likes about you - that you are somewhat "innocent" You toss away her orgasms as "Well, that's just what boys do when they are raped". It's always easier for males to orgasm then females. But during rape - women also have them.

You don't understand her as much as you should. As stated by her, she does want them with you. And has I've told you (and another woman here) - that will take therapy and time.

Education links below about women orgasms during non-consenting sex:
What Science Says About Arousal During Rape | Popular Science
I Had My First Orgasm While Being Gang Raped! Confused & ashamed
Arousal During Rape: The Science Behind Why It Doesn't Equal Consent

About being circumcised. Geez. That has little to do with race. I am circumcised. Soon afterward, I wished I didn't get my son circumcised. Advantages to both. But as it turns out, those who are un-cut, have better orgasms.




> My opinions on this are my own faults and yes need to be worked on. / Her XBF wins. Yes he hurt me, yes he got me to leave her.


Then be a better man and do something about it. I know it can take a while... but you have to decide... Are you that going to allow yourself to lose to her XBF; who YOU said yourself, was "dumber than a tree stump"? Where does that put you on the scale of things? You lost to a tree stump - basically dead wood. You lost the battle, but are you going to lose the war? Remember Perl Harbor? How about the Alamo?



> I know that dealing with this is worse for her than it is for me. I feel bad for not being able to be there for her and support her. I hate that I'm not "man enough" to put it aside. I know that she is hurting very badly. Her son has told me that she's always upset and tries to hide it but he can hear her cry at night.


If you leave this woman, who is tearing her flesh off because of YOU. By GOD, I hope you bow to her, and tell her you are weak and that she deserves someone better, stronger. That SHE IS NOT AT FAULT. That she is not ***** or a ****. She is a woman who has spent years recovering for a hell - that YOU YOURSELF witnessed all these years. You saw her working on herself. And you see what she does today... her son told you that she cries every night. That *IS HURTING HIM*. When I cried from having my heart broken last year, my 2yr old came and held me... he knew I was hurting. So yeah, the 7yr old knows his mom is hurting. This, you allowed Mr. TreeStump to hurt her and her son. 

A father protects his kids, protects his family. Your "family" was attacked but you instead - retaliated against the family, the weakest person of the unit. You know the facts. You know them MORE than I do. My advantage is that I am not emotionally attached to any of you. I am dots on a screen. I'm an oreo 1000 miles away from you. I have more sympathy for Gibrale than you do.

I'll be harsh here. You're going to live with knowing that you whimped out on a woman who didn't cheat on you, who didn't hurt you personally. You allowed a meth-head to direct your life.

~~~

You shouldn't have had sex with her... but it was an attempt of emotional healing. You saw how much she is trying to washing off the "dirt" she thinks is on her. You talk about "black seed in her body" which is NOT THERE. She was trying to wash away the rapes off her skin - that IS NOT THERE. Don't you see that? And worse than that - you left after sex, as if she wasn't worth staying for.

That alone hudson... in what ****ing way does that tell you or anyone else that SHE WANTED to be gangbanged by her pimp-boyfriend when she was a teenager? There are women who do porn/gangbangs all over the internet. Easy to find... they get paid, they do it more than once and some even win awards for best girl on girl, threesome, etc. That is NOT Gibrale.

Her 10year old LOG on another site - is her sharing her thoughts, a way of healing. The way many of US here - do the same, posts that are years old - as we chronical our healing or life events as they pertain to the subject of this website. And so what if 500 views have been on her thread? You're up to 7,000 views here and nobody knows WHO YOU ARE. Views don't = people anyway. I might have viewed this thread about 50 times. And her story on that site is long before you ever entered her life. And you complain about that?



> Glad to see she went into detail about our sex life, which seems irrelevant to this situation. I've never taken the condom off to ejaculate into my hand, that's odd. When we first started having sex with each other I did pull out and ejaculate in the condom but never removed it pre-climax. Either you read wrong or she's making stuff up. It's starting to get hard not reading that website.


No, she didn't say that... those are words from someone else - putting words to express what they think happened. She has been trolled. Just like when people said here and there "She liked doing gangbangs and she still does it". That is fiction made up by others. She never said she enjoyed them. She enjoyed having you.



> She wanted to forego condoms. She has an IUD. We never have gone without a condom. She got upset about it sometimes but I don't want to ditch them until/if we're married. Yesterday she said that made her feel like I thought she was disgusting and dirty, even though I didn't know about any of this.


Understandable why she feels and would feel that way. Your statements about mixed-race couples and children... Again, I'm sorry she met you. Too bad she fell in love with someone who has some racial issues and not understand much about sex and sexual abuse. Now you know. If you decide to stay and help all 3 of you... you need to get over the condom issue. She only has one child... she has an IUD... her chances of getting pregnant is almost nil - same as a condom unless they break... and I have broken condoms. I kissed a part of my wife's body that she felt self concsious about when If found out about it... I still do, I show her that it doesn't matter - that I LOVE HER, even with her faults.



> Oral isn't for me, giving or receiving. I'm not a selfish prick who expect her to do it and not me. We tried it, I wasn't into it and she was the one that wanted to stop. When she tried giving me oral she stared at me the entire time which added to the discomfort. To be frank, seeing her with my **** in her mouth was not a sexy thing to me. Giving her oral killed the mood fast. She's never complained to me about it.


I wasn't saying that you need to act like a porn star. I was saying, there are things you can learn and do in the future - and with therapy, learn to do together - that doesn't mean its degrading. You didn't like going down, she noticed and stopped for you. She wants YOU to enjoy making LOVE to her. She is being selfish for you. But please get sex therapy for both of your or at least yourself - and so she can enjoy the little things such has touching and kissing her neck.

When loving couples do oral, they do so out of love. There are many women who perform BJs for their men, but don't get any downtown action themselves - they are not happy.
If you stay with Gibrale... getting over your sexual hangups would be healthy. And if you were to go down on her (and like it) - that would severely improve her self-esteem. There are no black or anyone elses seed in her body. Oral lovemaking (it is love) is healthy and good mentally. Take baby steps... but for now, that is whats important. Its getting over your hang-ups and seeing the facts for what they are. She didn't enjoy her childhood, she didn't like her sexual past. You have seen proof of this. Video changes nothing but has messed with your mind - which is understandable.

You leaving her... validates her damaged mind that she is worthless, a ***** and nothing more. Did you bother calling that hotline for CSA? If your pain is so too much to bare, why would you give someone else much much more, especially if you "love them"? Are you ripping at your flesh? Are you crying every night? Are you calling yourself a dirty ****? So far, she is and you are.

And by all means... you should not be a KISA. But its a matter of do you help the one you "love" or do you start with someone else and make sure you are not being KISA. Remember, the one you love- you are also there for them when they need help as they are for you.



> I'm the cause of that. Leaving her triggered it to go into overdrive, and I know seeing the video didn't help. She has been having nightmares and flashbacks since seeing that. I don't think she watched the whole thing.
> 
> I don't look at her the same and don't feel the same about her. That's on me, not her. If I can't look at her without feeling a foreign feeling similar to disgust then I cannot be with her. She doesn't deserve that. She was so upset last night after we had sex that I debated calling the hospital to get her admitted for suicide watch. She said something similar to "You think I'm disgusting, everyone thinks I'm a wh**e. What's the point in trying anymore. I'm only useful for a f**k and chuck. Maybe too used up for even that. Wh**ing myself is the only way anyone will want anything to do with me." ~~ I don't think I will see either of them again.


As you stated... she has marks, she has lost weight... that's on you. She saw the video? How? Did you bring it to her? She had no business watching it.
How can you still THINK she enjoyed her teenage sex-life when YOU see that she thinks so low of herself? That she says she's useless - why bother trying? If only being a ***** is the kind of men who would want her? Geez.

Dude... you have done exactly EVERY WRONG THING a person can do to a rape victim, but not just that - a CSA victim who has been sexually abused since she was 8 years old or so?! But YOU are butt-hurt because of a few minutes of video from her junkie pimp 10 years ago that has abused her from age 14~19? 

Damn man... that's low. You have totally destroyed another human being in one of the worst possible ways. You get to live with that.

Glad you called a FRIEND to deal with the damage you left behind. That was white of you.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Okay hudson…. I have something to say that you SHOULD really think about yourself.

You pride yourself on honesty and sexual history.

So once you leave Gibrale… and you’re meeting new women. Are you going to share your sexual & relationship history with them as well? Right? 

Make sure you share your history about Gibrale as much as you say that SHE SHOULD have shared with you.
This means saying something like:

_ “I dated this woman for 3 years, for which she never cheated on me. We were engaged for one week before her XBF/pimp showed me a video of her having NON-CONSENTING sex with other men and women. I was most upset with the black men. So after 4 months of just seeing her kid, not talking to her until just before I broke up with her. I find out she had over 10 years of teenage molestation and rape, her boyfriend pimped her out since she was 14 until she left at 19 - I was disgusted by the past that she left 10 years ago. I couldn’t stand to look at her anymore.

Even with her crying every night - which I know because her 7yr old told me, washing her body several times a day – scratching off layers of skin daily and losing weight. I was told by others to learn about CSA stuff and all, and I know she will be spending years of therapy over it. But she lied about being a whoring **** that had sex with black men. So at the very end, I had one last sex time with her, then I went home - called a friend after that because I was concerned about her (I'm sure a nice guy - you know) so after that, I never saw her again.  
I so was hurt by that video, she made me so sick – I couldn’t touch her. What other choice did I have? I got over my pain after a few months... then I met you…”_

That way, you get it out of the way that you won't be sticking your penis or mouth into her body that has been touched by 5+ men, 1+ black men or been sexually abused as a child.

Will you share THAT truth with possible future women? Or are you going to sugar-coat it? Omit important details about what had happened?

How do you think that comes across? 

By all means, go to the dating section of this site and let us know how that goes.

If they that have any brains, they will run away from you.

Please don’t get into relationships with any more women.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TaDor said:


> Okay hudson…. I have something you SHOULD really think about your self.
> 
> You pride yourself on honesty and sexual history.
> 
> ...


This has to be one of the best posts ever written on TAM.

Outstanding, TaDor.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

Hudson, 

Your most recent update says SO much. I have to tell you I cried reading about how hard things are for your XF now.

First I am glad to see that you spoke and you seem to mostly acknowledge that what you saw on the video was rape... Especially with your friend finding more video online tagged as "rape porn", I hope you can truly see that she is a victim here.

You have now been educated on the fact that orgasms do happen involuntarily during rape and you know she was threatened to perform well. 

You have acknowledged your own prejudices. These are all good things.

Unfortunate that you had sex and left. But it happens. If you choose that you cannot handle being with her, please at least explain that she is NOT unworthy... it is YOU who do not have what is needed for a relationship with her. She deserves a man that can see her strength and beauty in surviving what she has. Maybe a loving letter spelling out how you feel if you can do so without blaming her for her past.

Calling her friend was good... she really needs a lot of support and help right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Snowflakes said:


> I did not read her post but maybe she didnt tell you about her past because she knew you'd react this way. Her past is only for her to think about you shouldnt have just abandoned her for that and from what i read its obvious that you are still into her because you cant get her out of your mind. And look at the mess you made of her for juding her for something she might have regretted and thought about a fresh start with you.


A person has every right to disqualify a partner for marriage...for any reason they deem fit. OP has no obligation whatsoever to this woman. None. Whether or not he is a racist or a prude or is simply an azzhole has nothing whatsoever to do with the bottom line. The bottom line is that he has made it clear he has found her to be the kind of woman he does not want to be married to. Period. End of argument. Doesn't matter if all that crap was her fault or not. I feel bad for her, but her being victimized doesn't entitle her to mandate who marries her. He does not want to risk his future on her. It is that simple.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> A person has every right to disqualify a partner for marriage...for any reason they deem fit. OP has no obligation whatsoever to this woman. None. Whether or not he is a racist or a prude or is simply an azzhole has nothing whatsoever to do with the bottom line. The bottom line is that he has made it clear he has found her to be the kind of woman he does not want to be married to. Period. End of argument. Doesn't matter if all that crap was her fault or not. I feel bad for her, but her being victimized doesn't entitle her to mandate who marries her. He does not want to risk his future on her. It is that simple.


This is absolutely true, and it would certainly be no service to either one of them if he sticks around even though he can't deal with it. 

However, jerking her around while he sees other women and having sex with her before taking off are jerk moves.

Screwing her before bolting is a great way to drive home the fact that she's worth nothing more.

Make a clean, kind break and stop jerking her around.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is absolutely true, and it would certainly be no service to either one of them if he sticks around even though he can't deal with it.
> 
> However, jerking her around while he sees other women and having sex with her before taking off are jerk moves.
> 
> ...


Word.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@hudson definitely try to get her help. She needs a lot if it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is absolutely true, and it would certainly be no service to either one of them if he sticks around even though he can't deal with it.
> 
> However, jerking her around while he sees other women and having sex with her before taking off are jerk moves.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%. But he won't walk away and end it because I think he is scared of what will happen to this little boy he has grown to love....and I don't blame him. The exGF is too messed up to be having kids much less raising one.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> She claims to have been in therapy for around 10 years. To me that seems like a long time and some progress surely should have been made by now?


She is raising a normal healthy son that is some gd progress right there. She broke the cycle and she did it alone! She is not out getting drunk and knocked up as many of these girls do. She is not in porn. That's a hell of a lot of progress. 

I admire your girls courage, if I was you I would be worried about some her issues, not that she had a lot of sex partners, I would get over that. But for me as an outsider I would be proud to be friends with this woman.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> I don't hate black people, any other race, gays, trans, and whatever else can be said. I'm in Canada, I have more non-white friends than white friends. I live in a city that has a very large non-white and non-English (or French) speaking population. Black men with white women in theory is whatever, who cares. I know it should be that way. Any other race combination doesn't get a second glance. Black women with a white man, doesn't really either. It's black men-white women that unnecessarily make me uncomfortable and think the woman is a... 4 letter word for promiscuous. Most of them are trashy-looking. Yes, I know that is wrong and no I don't like it. In my teens and early 20's I had a lot more hate and that would have been racism. I have been turned off by women in the past when I learned they had a black man in the past. Am I proud of that? No and I don't like admitting it either.
> 
> If I am to be honest (and again I know it's my problem). I may find it worse when I see a black man-white woman with kids. Or just a white woman out with her clearly half black kids. So no, I don't want the boy to be half black. I don't want to look at him and feel the way I do about others. That's my own problem that I need to work on. It is entirely possible that he is half black. She was having unprotected sex with at least 2 of them. I don't know the statistics but I want to say I feel in the minority being white here. Half-black isn't the only possibility, in this city and the cities surrounding there are large populations of various Asians. He has the olive skinned green undertones. He has very fine features, I don't look at him and think that he looks black. Maybe I'm in denial.
> 
> ...


Your plenty "Man" enough. Posting all that proves it. This is an incredible hard thing. You are admitting to faults that most would hide. 

One question if the boy is half black will you love him any less? Would you let anyone treat him less? If the answer is no which I am pretty sure it is, then that is what you need to think about. That is what you have been thinking and doing, to other peoples sons. That is why it is wrong at the very basic level.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> This is accurate. I want her to stop hurting and stop feeling so terribly about herself, yet I'm contributing to that problem. Every time I try and help her I make her pain worse. I don't want to be the cause of her pain and I might not be the cause but I'm a factor. Last night I went to see her so we could talk. We did talk. We had a long conversation and cleared the air on some things. I thought it was going well and she relaxed a lot. One thing led to another and we had sex. Horrible sex, mind you. Definitely no 'happy ending'. She was upset and wanted me to stay overnight, I didn't want to at all. I stayed for a bit then left because my being there was hurting her more.
> 
> Her whole body was covered in red marks from rubbing herself so much, with her OCD being on overdrive. She has rough sponges that she uses to wash her whole body and scrub the crap out of it. I was there for 7 hours. In that time she washed her hands and forearms 24 times and was very fidgety with other parts of her body. She showered once and showered before I got there because her hair was wet. She's clearly lost weight that should couldn't afford to lose. I'm the cause of that. Leaving her triggered it to go into overdrive, and I know seeing the video didn't help. She has been having nightmares and flashbacks since seeing that. I don't think she watched the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Your not the cause of that, the people who rapped her are the cause.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I cannot deal with it. That doesn't mean I don't love her. It doesn't mean I don't care about her. It doesn't mean I don't want to be with her. It means that I'm too much of a ***** to deal with it. It means I'll wonder about her and her son everyday and wish I could have done something differently. I wanted to marry her, I PLANNED to marry her. I had an engagement ring sitting in my office for 8 months before I had the guts to propose. I wanted it to be perfect, she deserved it. All she wanted was for someone to love her, to want her, to cherish her and to accept her and her son and I blew that to smithereens. 

When we had sex last night I couldn't ****ing stay hard! She BEGGED me to forego the condom, even if that meant pulling out or FEELING the ****ing IUD string. The IDEA of going bareback DISGUSTED me in that moment. I was running through the list of STD's I could catch and if they were treatable or not. At the same time feeling like the worlds BIGGEST prick for even letting my mind wander there and even for an INSTANT think she was some disease ridden *****. To try and stay hard I started thinking about another woman, what a great guy hey? Meanwhile she is laying there naked and crying because she thinks she's disgusting because I couldn't stay hard or ejaculate. She wanted to give me oral and immediately I thought about all the ****s I watched her suck. My erection was LONG GONE. When I left it was because I couldn't get that crap out of my head and needed to get out of there. As I was leaving she was BEGGING me not to go, BEGGING to LET HER DO BETTER (sex). Because with her ex if she didn't perform well she was beaten, tied down and raped hard. I was still able to walk out that door and able to ignore her texts and calls today. I don't WANT to do that to her. I can't ****ing deal with it. If being an even bigger prick was possible that sealed the deal. Like all the other men in her life I ****ed her and left her there to cry. Feeling used, degraded and disgusting. 

So YES. I'm a HUGE, GIANT, racist prick. I destroyed years of therapy that she did and probably steered her down the path of returning to that life. 

When I say I cannot do it, I mean that. It's not that I don't want to. It's that I CAN'T. Staying would hurt her a hell of a lot more than leaving. 

Yes, I do worry about her son. She's in a really bad place right now and she has no family to help her. She has friends but NONE of them know about her past. Even her best friend that I called last night has no idea what is going on unless my ex said something to her. It's not healthy for her son to see her not eat and wither away, to hear her cry every night, to watch her rub layers of her skin off, for him to have a totally exhausted mom because she cannot sleep anymore and has panic attacks that last 1-2 hours. I don't want to ruin her life more by having her son taken from her. He'd go to her ex's parents, which would also give her ex more access. Which would ****ing destroy her. If I want her to kill herself, that's the way to do it. She lives for that boy.

So yes, ==> this guy <==giant ****ing ass hole who is just going to run away from his problems.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> I cannot deal with it. That doesn't mean I don't love her. It doesn't mean I don't care about her. It doesn't mean I don't want to be with her. It means that I'm too much of a ***** to deal with it. It means I'll wonder about her and her son everyday and wish I could have done something differently. I wanted to marry her, I PLANNED to marry her. I had an engagement ring sitting in my office for 8 months before I had the guts to propose. I wanted it to be perfect, she deserved it. All she wanted was for someone to love her, to want her, to cherish her and to accept her and her son and I blew that to smithereens.
> 
> When we had sex last night I couldn't ****ing stay hard! She BEGGED me to forego the condom, even if that meant pulling out or FEELING the ****ing IUD string. The IDEA of going bareback DISGUSTED me in that moment. I was running through the list of STD's I could catch and if they were treatable or not. At the same time feeling like the worlds BIGGEST prick for even letting my mind wander there and even for an INSTANT think she was some disease ridden *****. To try and stay hard I started thinking about another woman, what a great guy hey? Meanwhile she is laying there naked and crying because she thinks she's disgusting because I couldn't stay hard or ejaculate. She wanted to give me oral and immediately I thought about all the ****s I watched her suck. My erection was LONG GONE. When I left it was because I couldn't get that crap out of my head and needed to get out of there. As I was leaving she was BEGGING me not to go, BEGGING to LET HER DO BETTER (sex). Because with her ex if she didn't perform well she was beaten, tied down and raped hard. I was still able to walk out that door and able to ignore her texts and calls today. I don't WANT to do that to her. I can't ****ing deal with it. If being an even bigger prick was possible that sealed the deal. Like all the other men in her life I ****ed her and left her there to cry. Feeling used, degraded and disgusting.
> 
> ...


First of all calm the F down. Why did you have it in your mind that you were going to be able to be over this with having sex once? You suffered trauma here too. Now you know what your ex goes through when she is having sex by the way. Now you know what it was like for her. Not fun is it. Not fun when some ******* intrudes into your sexuality so he can feel power. That prick did the exact same thing to you that he did to her. I am sure this is not missed on him. 

Anyway you guys are going way to fast. You need time. What she needs right now is a friend not a boyfriend. How about you do that for a few months this time while talking before you jump into bead. 

Second, don't project stuff in her mind. You are not her ex, nothing like that, you need to get over yourself a little bit. I really doubt she is thinking of you like you just used her for sex. She says quite plainly in her text that she doesn't blame you. She knows it must be hard. 

**** man this IS hard, we have been saying that, I have been telling you that every single post. So what is your counselor saying about it, oh year right you haven't even done that yet. What did the books say about dealing with this, oh year right haven't done that ether. Look man this is a marathon, it's not a failure if you feel pain, or shame, or whatever you are feeling. This is like the aftermath of a rape for both of you. That means communication, and accepting failure is going to be part of the equation for a while. Do some reading about sex with survivors of rape. There is going to be some failure for a while. That is OK if you can be courageous. 

You do need to stop running away because it's scary or painful for you. Here is where I am going to take you to task. Men have courage even in the face of emotional pain. You can stay or even decide this is too much without having an emotional freakout and running away. You wanted to get married, you call that kid your son, well his father shouldn't be running away when he needs him to be strong to protect him. I am not say yes or no to staying, I am saying quit running the F away!

It's OK to say what your feeling so get it out there. Say-- What you are doing to yourself is scaring me. I can't even think of getting together if you keep abusing yourself because I don't want to contribute to that. Then see if she can be strong. Say OK well we kind of failed at our first attempt at sex. I am not ready yet. This isn't about you it's about the images in my head. We will have to regroup and try again. 

But also stop being so hard on yourself, but also stop expecting miracles. People here are giving you a hard time, but all I will judge you for is where your hearts at. You heart seems good to me. Dealing with stuff like this is dealing with failure a lot. Every step can be a struggle at first. Well now you know, so don't freakout about it. Just fail and get up and try again. 

You love your ex it has been plain from your first post, you are starting to understand what it is she goes through. If you want to give up after a week then give up. But at least do it with some honor and talk to her. I don't think you want to give up because you are still on here. Because of how you write about her. 

Here is the bottom line to all of this you don't like that she had a lot of kinky sex. Well she did, that's really it. She did it because of her ****ty upbringing. But the long and short of it is, if you are going to be with this women then you are going to have to accept that her count is higher, and she did kinky things. Things you find gross. You need to come to acceptance of that or realize you can't. You need to detach her value from her sexual past. 

This isn't like how I think about it where I would worry about how intimate the act could be if it was done with a lot of people. I don't think, for you, this is about being one of the few so inherently special or unique. No you think of this like some posters on here, the less sex partners a woman has the higher value she has. Now I am going to ask you straight up honest, when you think about it like that, is that really a right way to think about her? Or is thinking like this kind of the same way that other men have thought about her. Every man in her life is assigning her value based on her sexuality. I say let it go man. If you love the girl, love the girl. Who the F cares what I or any poster or anyone else thinks. Maybe you were wrong about the count = value thing. 

After you do that then you can see if you can handle the other issues. But you guys have to actually work on the issues. 

As for your ex, she needs to get some help. Part of this needs to be you saying, look we can work on it but I can't deal if you are going to rip your skin of. I need to be stronger, but you need to be stronger. What can we do to make you stronger. 

I think you should talk to her about possibly telling her friend or at least intensifying her counseling for a while. Which you should go to at least once if she wants may I add. You also need to see a counselor. 

Text her, say your sorry and trying and you will talk to her once your head is on straight. Then decide what you are going to do, but have the honor to tell her. And if you are going to try quit running away from the feelings. Stand up and FEEL THEM, break down, yell at the ******* ex boyfriend or whatever but feel them, you will be OK.


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

What a dysfunctional mess. And you are codependent. You two are oil and water. You need to separate and find peace apart in therapy.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

hudson said:


> I'm not racist but yes I was raised to believe interracial relationships are wrong and that is engrained in me. I don't like it, logically I know there is nothing wrong with interracial but regardless I cannot get it out of my head. It makes me uncomfortable to witness even though I want to smack myself out of it. If I see an interracial couple thoughts that my parents metaphorically beat into me immediately come to mind.
> 
> So SEEING my X being pounded between 2 black men. Seeing her gagging on a black mans penis until he ejaculates on her face. That is burned into my mind and in my head I pair my X up with the nasty things my parents taught me.
> 
> .


Meh it is 2017 no one understand the difference between bigotry, being a racist and prejudices anymore. The words are different and NO they are not interchangeable. Just leave it alone. 

As to the rest, it is time to move on. You may have feelings for her, but you are not IN love with her. It is okay to be torn up, it is not okay to lead her on and keep her hanging around. It is terrible to base the survival of your relationship on a DNA test. It will not erase the memories you have, nor will it fix the lack of communication you both have engaged in.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

hudson said:


> I cannot deal with it. That doesn't mean I don't love her. It doesn't mean I don't care about her. It doesn't mean I don't want to be with her. It means that I'm too much of a ***** to deal with it. It means I'll wonder about her and her son everyday and wish I could have done something differently. I wanted to marry her, I PLANNED to marry her. I had an engagement ring sitting in my office for 8 months before I had the guts to propose. I wanted it to be perfect, she deserved it. All she wanted was for someone to love her, to want her, to cherish her and to accept her and her son and I blew that to smithereens.
> 
> When we had sex last night I couldn't ****ing stay hard! She BEGGED me to forego the condom, even if that meant pulling out or FEELING the ****ing IUD string. The IDEA of going bareback DISGUSTED me in that moment. I was running through the list of STD's I could catch and if they were treatable or not. At the same time feeling like the worlds BIGGEST prick for even letting my mind wander there and even for an INSTANT think she was some disease ridden *****. To try and stay hard I started thinking about another woman, what a great guy hey? Meanwhile she is laying there naked and crying because she thinks she's disgusting because I couldn't stay hard or ejaculate. She wanted to give me oral and immediately I thought about all the ****s I watched her suck. My erection was LONG GONE. When I left it was because I couldn't get that crap out of my head and needed to get out of there. As I was leaving she was BEGGING me not to go, BEGGING to LET HER DO BETTER (sex). Because with her ex if she didn't perform well she was beaten, tied down and raped hard. I was still able to walk out that door and able to ignore her texts and calls today. I don't WANT to do that to her. I can't ****ing deal with it. If being an even bigger prick was possible that sealed the deal. Like all the other men in her life I ****ed her and left her there to cry. Feeling used, degraded and disgusting.
> 
> ...


Hehey-hey! Calm down now. You're not a racist nor a selfish *******. You have taken care of that boy and woman for over 5 years. She was the one who hid all of this information about her past and everything surrounding it. Your reaction to all of this is very mild.

This woman is not somebody that you could help. Even if you married her all the things she did would resurface again and bite you in the butt. You leaving her now is the best time for both of you to move on. You should probably be a friend who takes care of her until she can be somewhat independent again and maybe find somebody else. And the boy needs some sort of family member (or you) until all the things can get sorted out again. 

People always talk about therapy or shrinks.. I would do it like they did in medieval times where women like her were sent to monestaries and only spent time with nuns who fed them and cared for them. They work for free and really care about their guests. Shrinks or therapists will never really help her. 

But of course, you can't really help her that much when you're disgusted by her even touching you. 

Just want to say too that ger x's parents probably know that the kid is not their son's son (and that's probably why he almost never visits the son). I'm doubtful they will be delighted to care for him if he stays with them. 

All in all, it's one giant, tragic mess. She needs some help.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Now you know what your ex goes through when she is having sex by the way. Now you know what it was like for her. Not fun is it. Not fun when some ******* intrudes into your sexuality so he can feel power. That prick did the exact same thing to you that he did to her. I am sure this is not missed on him.


Well she's clearly a stronger person than I am. I'm not the one that had a couple dozen ****s rammed up my ass for 5, 6, 7 years yet she was able to go through with sex and I'm not. I'm some pathetic dude that can't get a 25 minute porno out of my mind meanwhile she can push it all aside to try and make me happy. I abandon her the second it gets too hard.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Great words and advice from sokillme... about calming down. Also from some others.

I do give you points / thumbs up - whatever - for being brave enough and the desire to come here and talk about your feelings. On this site, we have so many people who come here crying, begging and even demanding help from us... and their problems are NOT as bad or complicated as your nightmare. They post one or two times and then leave because they did not like the answers or the responses didn't match their expectations or they simply didn't want to deal with the truth.

Yeah, I hit you with 2x4s and you did open your eyes. For that, you are getting it. It's good thing, and you still come back for more. You are scared and been severely hurt, nobody is discounting that. None of the regulars here are making fun of you, mocking you or want to hurt you more. *I DO NOT* want to hurt you. We want to help you.

You even admitted your faults and your minor racist issues. Think about how much your life would be like if you we're even thinking about the color of anyone's skin. People are just that - people. My concerns is for Gibrale over you. But you if you actually were IN LOVE with that woman and loved that child, you should have and should put up a better fight. We ALL get that you got your world torn down. You've done many things wrong, you didn't have tools or knowledge and have been lost for months - it was only 3 weeks ago that you found this place. Ever heard of the phrase "better late than never"?

I found this place several weeks late, when my marriage had just imploded and was an ongoing trainwreck for about four months. The people here was a major part in the reconciliation with my wife. They helped me think better, they helped me plan better, they help me see my faults. They got me to CODA, they got me to look at books and they talked to me.

I like the suggestions that sokillme suggested if you decide to finally leave. I too have JUMPED the gun on things, I had my screw ups. Yes, you have yours... but you are already learning - you just have much more to do, you can learn a lot in a few weeks. If we thought you would have had sex with Gibrale yesterday - we would have warned you TO NOT DO THAT. When my wife and I decided to TRY and be together, we talked... We spent time together about 5 times before we had sex, at most we had some kissing, hugging but mostly talked honestly. We decided we would spend months TRYING to reconcile without guarantees that we would - just take it easy. So that if we FAILED, then we can both tell our son "At least we tried to make things work". We are work in progress, we just had a great new family night out with just the 3 of us... and its things like that, which makes our reconciliation worth the effort.

Nothing will fix this mess overnight. Separately or together - you both need help.

Are you the kind of person who usually thinks and plans things out before you just DO IT? Buying a new cell-phone, do you spend time with the models, options than just buy it? I get the feeling you may regret not trying. Because it seems to me that you only had a few days to get an idea of what the whole picture looks like. And yes, I am aware that in the end, it *IS YOU* who ultimately decides what to do, you have no legal or biological requirements to do be with her or anyone for that matter.

Talk to the folks of RAINN... they have therapist online or on the phone, you can talk to. They should be able to tell you details of how Significant Others deal with / help and understand the victims of rape / CSA.

I Hope you continue to grow and expand as a human being.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Hudson... she is a STRONG woman to have gotten herself out of that hell hole. Ever thought that she was there to help you become a stronger man? When I meet my wife, she was not exactly on my checklist of a woman I want for a girlfriend. She smokes and has tats. She doesn't smoke anymore. It took about 2 years... she vaps, it's not perfect, but I'm thankful for vaporizers. 

I have been with many many women... but I started falling in love with my future wife a few hours after I met her when I decided to kiss her. It just came over me to KISS HER. I proposed to her a few weeks later - I didn't even think about it - it came out of my mouth and I knew she would say "yes" - that was scary because I never proposed to any woman, we married a few months later and we're about 6 years together. You had that ring for 8 months. wow. You had strong feelings for some reason.

She *IS* still the same woman you meet 5 years ago, she is still the same woman you gave the ring to last year.

Why let some crack-meth-whatever head - **** on your life and **** on her life? Get therapy, slow down... you have much to learn and digest it. (you are online now - so I'll type a bit more)


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

When my wife cheated on, did things behind my back. Lied to me over and over again for months. That tore me up. She fell into a typical "just friends" with a co-worker affair. We split up, I threw her out. I had asked her to do therapy and do research on affairs. She wasn't that interested or didn't do it at first. She had to figure that out herself and it took about 2 months to open her eyes - which most women DO NOT DO. She had typical cheater thoughts too - but she had to admit to herself and others that in fact, she DID CHEAT. We both talked, and decided it was worth it to our son and ourselves to at least TRY. So we could admit we did that much if it failed. We went to MC for 6 months and we both are reading books. I was already moving on and dating others... but we both stopped and only dated each other. I am still glad I gave her another (and last) chance which she has said she is glad she tried as well.

I know there are other women out there. But my wife is the one that I feel and want to grow old with. We're coming up on our last 1-year milestone of starting reconciliation in a few months. Each painful event that has passed its one year mark is noticed and feels pretty good. I support people who want to reconcile, but I also support those who want to divorce - it depends on situations.

We're both still hurt from the affair, but we're doing pretty good now. We both are learning to be better... we both want to continue to expand our lives together.

But I'll go back to almost 12 months ago... when I threw her out in March, I could not get it up. I couldn't even watch porn without getting sick to my stomach... it would make me think of my wife and the OM (other man) having sex together. It would take weeks before I could and I think I watched only a little bit. Sex with my wife wasn't exactly great or normal at the start either - but I've gotten to the point that I don't think of the past anymore. Gibrale, unfortunately, is confused and very hurt and resorted to an old habit of thinking GOOD SEX is what was needed, that is why she offered more. It hurt her (and yourself) so much when you left. There is SO MUCH pressure on both of you to PERFORM. You said it yourself... you felt shame for not getting an erection... and she felt worthless because she couldn't help you get one. You see that? You both have expectations on each other and had a normal and expected FAILURE. It was predictable.

Get over the IUD thing... I felt them too. Feels odd. But you got used to condoms. If she has been faithful to YOU and only you (you can ask her... and say it better be true. I'll take your word for now) and she was clean years ago - she is clean today. I haven't had an STD in over 25 years - and that was with one of my first GF with a condom. By all means, use a condom now... until much later - as normal. If she still has the IUD - her desire to FEEL your flesh in her flesh is strong... it makes he feel... NOT DIRTY. Remember her scrubbing her skin off?

Tell her she IS NOT DIRTY. Inside or out. And get her into therapy!

I really want you to be strong for the both of you. Sorry hudson... but life is a hell sometimes... This maybe the worst point of your life to ever happen. Or you could meet at nice Church girl who is 21 and a virgin that you marry, have two kids and later she gives you STDs from banging her preacher 5 years later. If Gibrale is dedicated to you, and you give her that chance - I doubt you would ever cheat on you (I can't make that promise - nobody can. Every person has the ability to cheat.).

Concerning some of her friends which you think might have had sex with her... that is your head playing mind games. If that one friend said "I tried to date her, but she didn't) - take him at his word. If he had past relations with her, my would likely be gone or would say "things didn't work out". You both need to have that sitdown... and one thing I would ask her: "Are there any other possible surprises I may find out in the future about your past? Like sex with a friend? Or sex with anyone else since we started dating?" - Note: In my book - until a relationship is considered serious - dating or having sex with others is none of mine business or theirs. I have no expectations otherwise. Condoms are useful for that.

You have a lot to think about... you will for quite a while. I should have been clearer about staying or leaving... like "Learn more about what is going on - then you can sit and spend time thinking about all the aspects of this situation. Her story, her trauma of the video and its effect on you - points to her not cheating on you, scared and ashamed of her rapes and to protect you". One of the reasons my marriage broke up because both my wife and I were trying to protect each other - rather than discuss problems.

Please tell her IF you believe it: "You are not dirty, the problem is on me. I am trying to work it out. You know and I know how I am feeling now. I am finally starting to understand. Your past is not your fault and I'm trying to wrap my head around all this information. Please stop hurting yourself. I worry about you - and it will not help my decision to stay. I want you to get better." - in your own words - that you actually believe in. Don't be fake on your end.

Seriously... remember who the enemy is. XBF tree stump. Not Gibrale. Don't give that scum decades worth of laughter. He *will* require court orders to stay away from you either way, keep that in mind. Likely after the one year mark of you two being together - he had that video waiting until you proposed - it did not matter when you did it, he planned it a long time ago. He has been smirking at you for years. Be the bulldozer that rips up that tree stump.

Quick question: the longer you were with her, was her OCD improving? After 3 years together, any fights? Any drug or drinking abuse? Or did that improve? Anything from her that made you question if she was someone you wanted to be with? How did she compare to the past women? Did you ever have feelings for them the same way? With my wife, my feelings for her - my deep love for her totally blew away all the women in my past. The other women and friends in my circle knew I was head over heals for her like no other.

Think about the day you gave her that ring... the look on her face and how you felt. 8 months you held onto it... what it meant to you, what me meant to her.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Sorry to add more to this:

It seems you spent months lost, with nobody really to talk to until a few weeks ago. Meanwhile, I was here the day my world got burned down and started going to support meetings within days - crying my eyes out in front of a dozen strangers. - they helped me so much.

If you decide to go for it and try to reconcile - these are updated suggested based on latest info:

- Ask her if she is willing to GIVE you a chance to sort this junk that is rolling in your head. *IT* will fade to almost nothing - if you do the right things and proper recovery.
- I suggest at least 6 months of MC and sexual therapy that you both do together. Part of the deal is that you won't guarantee YOU will get over the video with the black guys, just that you will make an honest effort to do so. If after those 6 months, you can see if you need to add more months or maybe cut it off. No way you are going to recover in a week or a month.
- No sex with her until you have both gone to a therapist to talk about what happened and how you feel and how to get there safely for the both of you. She needs to know she is valued as a whole person, not just a sex object and not just a wife, a mother, a career woman.
- The DNA test needs to be a requirement some way or another. Don't let it be about race... it's about getting rid of XBF.
- File any possible court orders against XBF, any form of blackmail (which should be illegal) will be reported to the proper authorities. You don't want XBF trolling you (Stay or go - he can do this), hurting your business by sharing videos online. See what possible laws have been broken.

In Canada, there is a bill (I don't know if it passed - but ask your lawyer) in which use of porn in revenge without the consent of all parties can result in 5 years in prison. **BINGO**
Michael Power » Revenge Porn & Canadian Law (This has a few links)
House Government Bill - Bill C-13 - Royal Assent (41-2) (The bill / law = 2014) I think you can research more yourself.
There is also blackmail laws you need to look into in case XBF asks you for money. Don't underestimate him.

- Get whatever books or online publications the therapist recommend you and of course all the sites I already suggested to you regarding children of sexual assault.
- MOVE
- Take her / them out for dates - family things like you used to.
- Don't ever shame her again, don't ever use it against her in an argument or you are in a bad mood. You are not there yet - by the use of your words here.
- Don't allow your friends or family shame her. Dump them. Anyone who laughs at her, you may have to punch in the nose.
- Imagine if this was your daughter that was forced to do that video, you wouldn't shame her would you?
- The sexual therapy is for both of you - so she can enjoy normal sex with you even more. So you can hold her, touch her neck. So that oral sex isn't dirty, but also not required or demanded.
(BJs - just like intercourse, can be abusive control that is used to degrade just as it can be something that is done out of love.)
- You are both human. You are both victims from the same punk from 10 years ago. That is your enemy to the family you thought you were going to have. That is your anger.
- If you see progress over the coming months, share that with each other. Talk about how the OCD can be reduced since its also a triggering issue.
- Be strong.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Not advisable to punch anyone in the nose. The last thing you need is assault charges filed against you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Just want to point out that while she may have hurt emotionally from that encounter, she is by no means a wallflower or wounded bird. 

She had the wherewithal to get therapy and get her and her son out of very poor and abusive situation. One emotional session where you can't get hard and the mind movies are going strong is not going to ruin years of her therapy. 

You take too much upon yourself.

You guys just need to put the breaks on and split. There is too much damage done. Learn from the experience.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

I'll try this again having slept it off. 



> You have racial issues. ~ So yeah, it's amazing that she was willing to have anything to do with you. She saw the good parts of you and weighed them against the bad.


I may have racial issues (with black men being with white women) but I don't hate black people. I have friends who are black, I work with a couple black men who I really respect. I don't think all black people are drug doing, raping, hooligans. In fact, I don't personally know any who are. My ex's best friend is black and I have no problems with him (aside from my own insecurities). My ex talked about adoption a lot and about adopting a baby from another country. I didn't hate the idea of a black baby. I was unsure of removing a child from their culture and not being able to replicate it, and having a child that clearly looks different from it's parents. I don't go around verbally bashing black people. A few times I said something that my ex didn't like, she corrected me immediately and I didn't say those things again. We did take our son to a black church a few times, which I only remembered because you mentioned it. There is a black church in our neighbourhood, they frequently have family events and get you to join in as you are walking by. My first impression was that they were all extremely nice, extremely welcoming and extremely friendly. Not that I didn't want to be around a bunch of black people. I don't give a **** if her son is white, black, asian, hispanic, native, or a ****ing alien. He's still my son. 



> Education links below about women orgasms during non-consenting sex


I was wrong and uneducated, I will admit that. I have read the links, and searched for others. I read over and over that unwanted prolonged stimulation can cause orgasm, which she definitely had. She told me that she frequently blacked out (she used a different term I cannot recall) and would be pulled back into consciousness by orgasm, which is something that was also in one of the links I read. She told me when she orgasmed it was extremely strong and she hated it. The men tried to make it happen because it was so obvious when she was having one and to make her believe she liked it. I was wrong and stupid. 

I looked it up, evidently the circumcision rate here in Canada is significantly lower than the US. Sitting at 30%. Again, I was ignorant and plain stupid. She isn't going to transfer her sexual preferences onto her child, she followed the recommendations in this country which is not to cut.



> She saw the video? How? Did you bring it to her? She had no business watching it.


We lived together. We were both home when the video was sent to me. I saw it first, immediately closed it and asked her WTF that was. She looked and closed it faster than I did. I don't think she watched the whole thing at another time, but she did have access to it. Wrong, yes. I'd like to think that sane me wouldn't have let her watch it. 

I'm having difficulties stopping myself from paying her ex a visit and ending up in prison, or dead. He has a series of violent crimes racked up and doesn't exactly hang out with the best crowd. The anger is quickly building up. I can release it by working out but I want to ****ing kill the guy.



> So what is your counselor saying about it, oh year right you haven't even done that yet. What did the books say about dealing with this, oh year right haven't done that ether.


You're right. I haven't gone to a therapist. I know that I need to if I'm going to be good enough to help her. Today I got a recommendation for someone I can go see. Eventually we will need to go together. 



> You wanted to get married, you call that kid your son, well his father shouldn't be running away when he needs him to be strong to protect him.


You're right about this. I let him get hurt and his mother get hurt. I never should have abandoned them like I did and hid like a coward. 



> No you think of this like some posters on here, the less sex partners a woman has the higher value she has. Now I am going to ask you straight up honest, when you think about it like that, is that really a right way to think about her? Or is thinking like this kind of the same way that other men have thought about her. Every man in her life is assigning her value based on her sexuality.


My opinion was (is, IDK) that women who had sex with only a few men respected it more, treasured it more. To be frank, intimacy is probably more special because she is choosing to do it with me. That is more of a recent revelation, as of this morning. You are correct that her sexuality should not = her worth. That is how she has always been seen, how she sees herself and how she knew/thought I saw her. She told me that she had to pretend like she was a virgin because some men wanted to be her 'first'. Or let them believe she wasn't on birth control so they could try and impregnate her, which eventually did work. She was something to fulfill fantasies on. She was used and degraded and I didn't help at all. 



> If we thought you would have had sex with Gibrale yesterday - we would have warned you TO NOT DO THAT. When my wife and I decided to TRY and be together, we talked... We spent time together about 5 times before we had sex, at most we had some kissing, hugging but mostly talked honestly.


I didn't plan on having sex with her. Before I went to see her and even while I was there, I didn't plan on it or have it on my mind. She was definitely the one who initiated and pushed for it. She reverted back to her hold ways and I went along with it because I didn't want to hurt her by saying no (that worked out well) and I thought it might rekindle an emotional connection. Sex use to be all she had to offer a man, the only way a man would want her and be happy with her. When she felt like the relationship was getting more threatened she made a last ditch effort. She was almost begging me to have sex with her. In hindsight, I should have just said no and talked to her about it. When I wasn't able to stay hard she started flinching a lot every time I moved, I have never seen her - or anyone - flinch like that. She was expecting me to beat her for it. The line "Don't go. Please let my try again. I can do it better." felt so... scripted. It wasn't the first time she's said that. Looking back... nearly almost every time, if not every time, after we had sex she asked if it was good. I made the assumption she was self-conscious or I wasn't expressing myself enough, now I doubt that was the reasoning. 



> Get over the IUD thing... her desire to FEEL your flesh in her flesh is strong... it makes he feel... NOT DIRTY. Remember her scrubbing her skin off?


I don't know if she said it on that other site or not, I'm guessing yes since she talked about out sex life (which still pisses me off but whatever). I don't have a problem with the IUD and I know they are very effective at preventing pregnancy. Obviously she isn't the only woman I've had sex with, but I was raised to wait for sex until marriage. That of course is out the window and was a long time ago which is fine. I've never had unprotected sex, with anyone. This one is hard to explain, it's as if the condom acts as a mental barrier as well as a physical one. I've always said we could ditch them when we got married. I also don't want to have a(nother) child until I'm married. At all. I've always been paranoid about it. Enough that with an IUD and condoms in use I still pull out. Getting her pregnant right now would be ****ing horrible. 

I understand that it makes her feel worse about herself. I understand where she is coming from, wanting to ditch the condoms. I really do get it and I don't want to make her feel disgusting or that I don't love her. That's one that I don't know how to work around. She has said that ejaculating in her (without a condom) would make her feel closer to me and more connected, which TBH sounded weird as ****. I've since looked it up and apparently that's a thing. But nope, I can't do it. I also didn't want to move in together until we were married, but I budged on that. The condom issue, I don't feel like there is any wiggle room. 

Another factor into the condom use goes back to being raised to believe sex is special and not to be thrown around. I remember my mom constantly saying "Once you give it away you can't get it back. That is the one thing that you can share with your future wife that no one else has had of you." Illogically I want to save that, unprotected sex, for whoever I marry. Which I'm aware is no better than a Catholic school-girl who thinks anal sex is a way around losing her virginity. But there it is.



> You both need to have that sitdown... and one thing I would ask her: "Are there any other possible surprises I may find out in the future about your past? Like sex with a friend? Or sex with anyone else since we started dating?"


Right now I'm at the point where I don't want any more information. We need to just get it over with. I clearly don't handle surprises well. When she is feeling better we'll need to talk and get everything out. I'll admit it, recently I went through her facebook conversations with two of her friends that I wondered about. Wrong, yes. She's done nothing to deserve that. The conversations went back 10 years. I skimmed them for a bit and typed in some key words to search for before I felt bad and stopped. I need to trust her. She has admitted to me that she "use to" like both of the guys I was concerned about. She has never cheated, I don't get to be jealous or insecure about it. 



> Quick question: the longer you were with her, was her OCD improving? After 3 years together, any fights? Any drug or drinking abuse? Or did that improve? Anything from her that made you question if she was someone you wanted to be with? How did she compare to the past women? Did you ever have feelings for them the same way?


I have no reason to believe there was any alcohol or drug use since we've been together. Every time we are out and she is offered a drink she turns it down. I'd say she's had less than 5 drinks since I've known her. I've never seen her wasted. When we were friends a mutual friend was having a small party, she had a 1-2 (strong) drinks and started heavily flirting with the guys there, which was very out of character for her. It was a long time ago but from what I recall she was all over them. I've never seen her tipsy or drunk since. I don't think she did anything with them, we're still friends with them and I never heard anything about it, but I left before she did. I forgot about that until now, actually. 

With drugs, she is very tight lipped about it and hates talking about it: shame. She won't hang around anyone who uses anything (including weed). I know that she's used in the past. She breastfed her son, she said using her body for what it was intended for helped her stop and feel better about her body. I know that she wouldn't use while breastfeeding him, and he breastfeed for a long time. I don't remember when he finally weaned, when he was 5-6 maybe. Shocked me when she first told me but I quickly learned a lot of people around here do that. Can't remember what she called it, natural term weaning? IDK. I do however know that she HAD cocaine in her possession up until maybe a year into our relationship. She said she never used it, there was no sign that she used it. She said she kept it around to prove to herself that she didn't need to use it and so she wouldn't have to go searching for it elsewhere, and not use it. As far as I'm aware she has never told anyone, even doctors, that she previously used drugs, I think it was always cocaine. She doesn't have any track marks and said she snorted it. She experimented with other drugs but cocaine seems to have been her choice of drug, she was extremely adamant that she never used meth. She has been honest and says at times she still craves it.

We rarely fought. When we did it was small things, like I said something that she didn't agree with or wasn't politically correct. I'd bet my last dollar that is her #1 complaint about me, the crap that spews out of my mouth without me thinking. There are things we don't agree on but we don't have problems compromising usually. I don't know if she would agree or not but if I had to choose our biggest challenge it would be the amount of time we're together. She is the type of person that would spend every day, all day, for the rest of her life with me. I want to spend time with her, don't get me wrong, but I prefer more alone time than she does (she literally needs none). A good balance too a while to find. 

I worried about compatibility. If we'd always get along. I knew that she had a child, and I never saw myself dating or marrying someone with a kid. Taking on that responsibility. There were red flags as I learned about her but they were never enough to make me walk. I would process it and think, she's worth it. Things like her eating disorder, her OCD, her anxiety, her insomnia worried me. I didn't know what I'd be signing up for and read about worse case scenarios. 

When I first met her, it was a fluke. We had a mutual friend but had never met. They lived in the same apartment building. I was going to visit the mutual friend and he wasn't home when he was suppose to be, an hour late maybe. They lived a few hours away from me so having just drove 3 hours I didn't particularly want to sit in my car for an hour. The mutual friend called my ex and asked if she could let me in and keep me company. No one knew why (obviously I do now) but she was extremely shy, quiet and reserved especially with new people. The mutual friend warned me that she'd ask my ex to do it but she probably wouldn't. Surprisingly she did, she doesn't know why she was able to. I sat in her apartment with her, alone, for an hour. It was awkward as hell and she didn't speak or sit near me, to be honest I thought she was weird as ****. But she was gorgeous and there was something about her - I wanted to know more. I knew that I was missing something. As I started to get to know her I always craved more. I always wondered what was going on in her head. The first time she really let me into her sons life I looked at her and I knew I was going to marry her. I had never even kissed her but I knew I was going to marry her. I went out with a group of our mutual friends a few days later, she wasn't there, and I don't remember how it came out or why but I told all of them that I was going to marry her.

The women whom I have been with in the past I always knew that I'd never marry them. I thought I was just psyching my self out because it was always the same feeling. Long or short relationships were all the same. I cared for them but there wasn't anything special in those relationships. I rarely think of them. Some parts of other relationships may have been better but it has never mattered. She's always been the one.

The OCD is a problem. As long as I have known her it has never been this bad. The washing has doubled or tripled in frequency and duration. I have never seen the scrubbing and scratching at her skin this bad. Before it was just an inconvenience. At most she'd had a couple small marks on her body. Now it looks like she was tied to the back of a car and dragged behind it: road burn/rash. Instead of just using her fingers she's been using other, sharper, objects. 

Her friend called me this morning and said sometime last night she scraped off a layer or two of skin from her cheek. As long as I have known her she has never touched her face. I know she did in the past because she had a very faint scar. All night she was saying that she has to get "them" off her, that she wants her skin and genitalia removed. With that information I called the local mental health unit. They said to get her to the hospital and they can have her involuntary admitted for observation, then keep her up to a month if deemed necessary. She needs help. 

The lady that I talked to on the phone said people with OCD know their obsessions are irrational. ie) scratching all her skin off won't make her rapists 'go away' and there is no trace of them anymore anyway. With the thinking that she needs to remove all her skin she is borderline on a psychotic break or already there. One of the medications she is on can exacerbate symptoms of OCD. It's been fine but if she started taking more or the disorders changed, that could be contributing. The lady that I talked to said they heard of a case were a woman in a similar position poured acid on her body to burn her flesh off. That is horrifying. I am going to do what I can to get her to the hospital. I can stay with her son and look after him. I feel horrible for doing that but there isn't a choice anymore. 

To be honest, I don't know if I can handle it or not. I do know that I need to at least try. Pick an amount of time, 6 months, 9 months, 12 months, and give it all I have. She needs to know that there is no guarantee. Right now I'm more concerned about her not killing herself or starving herself to death. I called her therapist as well, one who she has seen for 10 years, and she couldn't say much other than agreed to get her to the hospital and that it wasn't the first time.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I saw this today... had to share it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hudson said:


> Well she's clearly a stronger person than I am. I'm not the one that had a couple dozen ****s rammed up my ass for 5, 6, 7 years yet she was able to go through with sex and I'm not. I'm some pathetic dude that can't get a 25 minute porno out of my mind meanwhile she can push it all aside to try and make me happy. I abandon her the second it gets too hard.


NO she has had a lifetime to get used to it. (I want you to really think about what I just said, MEDITATE ON THIS ONE)

Don't stop using condoms, you have every right to your own boundaries. Her having issues should not make you give up yours.

The "being special" thing that you got, makes a lot of sense. You both can build on that. 

She needs to address these issues, such as the scratching, the reverting back to using sex to keep you. This is the kind of thing I would be worried about. This is where you should hold her accountable. You should be kind about it, but these will end up destroying your relationship. Right now it is too easy for her to fall back on her sexuality because in her mind that is where all her worth is. You can help her in that, honestly just by letting her know that that is not where all her worth is to you, or her son. 

She seems motivated, but she has never had an honest relationship where the person knew this stuff, well now she is in one, even if you are just friends. However that doesn't mean she can revert back to bad patterns. She has to fight the patterns and just like she needs to tell you when you are doing things that trigger her, you need to call her on patterns that you know are not healthy. It is time for her to live an authentic life, that should be one of the big lessons in this whole mess for her. You need to discuss this. The best life is one lived authentically in my opinion. 

Again a it's a long road. You have to lead some in this, you are the mean point, you know when she is doing things that are not healthy for her or anyone really. For now you need to lead on that, but even that shouldn't be forever. In my mind this would be my judging point. How does she deal with day to day challenges in the relationship and without. When things are pointed out that are not healthy does she change, and stay changed. 

You need to go very slow. Establish a friendship, and let her get settled with that. Then see. Before you got on here you were not even speaking much, now you are at least back to talking. That will help you, her and the kid. But make it plain that this is basically starting over authentically. Not picking up where you left off. 

My point on here was always to get you to look past the sexual assault, to not see her as a **** but as what she really is someone who was wronged in the worst way. However it was not to get you to commit to this women as her husband. You need to decide that, and frankly right now even if the sex part never an issue again, there are dangers. That is where the focus your relationship eventually needs to be on so you can make an informed choice. 

Even if you don't work out, having a man in her life who is kind and doesn't judge her for her sexuality or her sexual history. Who values her as a whole person and not just for sex will end up being a good stabilizing relationship in her life. 

And you love her son like your own.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

You are truly two opposites to each other. You are a musician who was raised with ultra-catholic teachings about sex and how to be a chivalrous man. Her upbringing was totally different and she has always been sexually promisuous and addicted to hardcore drugs.

Maybe you should try focus on your songwriting and other things in life to try and get past all that has happened.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I just read your post #248 

She has helped you with your racism, has been for quite a while. That is good for you to recognize those things and learning that people are all the same. What matters is who they are and what they do. If you want her kid to be yours as well, that thinking is required "to not care".

Apparently NOT doing circumcision is on the rise in the USA as well. Some men even do the reverse or use a "sleeve" to regain the sensitivity we lost. We regret doing it to our son. We learned our info a bit late.

The video situation: Thanks for providing more details... a few seconds would be enough to horrify her. I can understand your shock more so. Whatever you do - Don't actually punch anyone in the nose... I mean, if someone insults her - Put them in their place. DO NOT do anything that will put you in prison. I know what its like to want to KILL someone, it's a reason why I don't own a gun. Use the legal system, you need to be there for your family.



> I haven't gone to a therapist. I know that I need to if I'm going to be good enough to help her. Today I got a recommendation for someone I can go see. Eventually, we will need to go together. I never should have abandoned them like I did and hid like a coward.


That is very good to hear. Let Gibrale know these things. Give her strength. You had NO experience with CSA, and your GF has had it bad (There are some much much worse). You work on yourself on learning more and get it - she did not anything to hurt you. She was trying to protect herself and you. She likely spent these years stressing out on LOSING YOU if you ever found out - and could never fully relax with being in a relationship with you.

The thing about abusive pimps like the xbf... is that they are taught by older pimps how to pull a girl in, have sex and then turn them into prostitutes for their own use. There are guys who play girls or young women all the time. Those girls think they are "in love" with their pimps, even thou they hate what they are doing. A friend of mine had a father like that. He learned those tricks - but he never got into the biz, he left his family behind. He used/uses those tactics to get laid - but he also gives back. I've learned some of them but I don't know much and I DON'T want to know. I can't understand how a person can use and abuse another person that way. I learned the concept from documentaries and research in that area. There are some sick people out there.

So use the legal system to get him in jail and out of your lives. Be there for her now... you are late, but you can only try.



> She told me that she had to pretend like she was a virgin because some men wanted to be her 'first'. Or let them believe she wasn't on birth control so they could try and impregnate her, which eventually did work. She was something to fulfill fantasies on. She was used and degraded and I didn't help at all.


 Yeah, there is a market for virgins - even if they are 30 years old. It's some odd guy thing. To a degree - you understand that feeling. When you say/think you want a girl with very few sexual partners. Take your beliefs in that and make it perverted "I must pop a teen girl's cherry" (rape). I never cared if someone was a virgin or not. I have told many young women and men to date and experience man others to see what they actually like and are compatible. This is why high-school romances rarely ever survive. And those that marry young (18~20) to their first loves are divorced - with kids. Having experince with only 1~5 people is very very low. There are 16 primary kinds of people out there - sub-divided into 64 then add physical attributes and life experiences that make up a person. Imagine if YOU married the first woman you had sex with or kissed. I am soooo glad I didn't marry ANY of the women in my past.

About sex with her a day or so ago: That was a mistake. You didn't do it to hurt her. I won't hit you with a 2x4 for that... you both made an honest mistake which many people would do - its what humans do. Tell her the love-making is good, and being with her is what does it for you. My wife has done simular for me... questioned her love making skills. I tell her she is great, I love her so. I've done more kinky stuff with other women is true... but I've made LOVE to my wife more than anyone else. My love for her matters most and the sex is great. I wish we could do more - but her injury prevents things we can do. 

The condom thing - that issue is for the future. Don't worry about it. When it comes up in therapy, talk about it... but really, its a non-issue for a good while. Hopefully you can get to the point of telling her that its a YOU thing, not a HER thing. You've spent years doing pull-out with a condom. Guess, what - so did I.

"once you give it away you can't get it back" - oh well, your long past being a virgin. And many people who think so much about sex in such way - tend to still be cheaters and perverts. Sex is sex, love making is sex with love added to it. We're still just animals. Those are sexual hangups, nothing more. Sorry, its childish and it causes people to have problems, prevents them from having better sex and love-making. Just like the School girl + anal sex = okay with God = stupid logic. "Its the sex that God can't see" A music video I'll share.


"More information" = YOU ARE 100% right, you are not in a position to know anything more. And I think, what you know is the WORST thing you'll ever know about your fiancee or girlfriend.

You are talking about going to therapy with her and that you love her. Call her by her name or Girlfriend, at least. My "wife" is not technically my wife anymore - but I still think of her that way and I am still her "hubby", I've been calling her my wife weeks after I proposed to her many years ago.

(end part 1)


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

hudon, disregard heyyo. He's saying things that you know are not true. As you yourself stated - she doesn't do drugs in front of you and refuses to have anything to do with others who do drugs. If she was into that stuff, you would have known about it a long long time ago.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

hudson said:


> Right now I'm at the point where I don't want any more information. We need to just get it over with. I clearly don't handle surprises well. When she is feeling better we'll need to talk and get everything out. I'll admit it, recently I went through her facebook conversations with two of her friends that I wondered about. Wrong, yes. She's done nothing to deserve that. *The conversations went back 10 years. I skimmed them for a bit and typed in some key words to search for before I felt bad and stopped. I need to trust her. She has admitted to me that she "use to" like both of the guys I was concerned about. She has never cheated, I don't get to be jealous or insecure about it*.
> 
> 
> *she had a 1-2 (strong) drinks and started heavily flirting with the guys there, which was very out of character for her. It was a long time ago but from what I recall she was all over them*. I've never seen her tipsy or drunk since. I don't think she did anything with them, we're still friends with them and I never heard anything about it, but I left before she did. I forgot about that until now, actually.


Can you handle living in denial for the rest of your life?

She likes interracial/black men. You dislike interracial black man-white woman sex
She's promicuous and becomes flirty when she drinks. You dislike promiscuity and alcoholism.
Her son is most possibly biracial. Again, you dislike that.
You don't like group sex. She enjoys having group sex. 
And much much more..

Can you handle changing and turning your whole world-view around? 

If I can speculate freely I would predict she would like to go back to her "old" lifestyle a little further in the future.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm praying for you both @hudson

I truly hope you are able to get her to the hospital.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Part two:

Drugs and drinking : As you stated, she doesn't do those things since you've been together. That is amazing work that she has done. Those were values you were looking for in a wife, right. She cares about the health of her son and wants to protect him from substance abuse. Her honesty about the cocaine is good... it great, but the honesty is important. If she is having a weak moment, her telling you helps to keep her from touching it.

About your sexlife: 


> I'm guessing yes since she talked about out sex life (which still pisses me off but whatever)


 You've told us a LOT of graphic details about HER sexlife than she has about any sexual details of herself and you. What she talked about was rated PG stuff. General stuff. She didn't post it on FB or your friends, family or co-workers. A friend of your's has... even you have told others what she had done before you got here. Nothing she said was ever insulting, or mockery or anyway negative about you. There are trolls on that site that came up with crap like that... but nothing from her fingertips was ever bad about you. She was asking for help and explained things, context was used.

About your relationship with Gibrale:
Rare fighting. She seems like a pretty normal serious girlfriend type behavior. You have your differences and as you said "A good balance" - as do any healthy couple. When you met her, you see she was slow to coming around to you. If she was all about sex, she would have offered you a BJ while you waited (I knew of many women who are like this - which I don't think healthy or would want).
You found her to be beautiful... let her know that.
Let her know that SHE is the first woman IN YOUR LIFE that you ever wanted to marry. That you knew you loved her and wanted to marry her for years.

You dealt with her OCD for a good long time. She'll get better... and her medication needs to be adjusted and or changed. There are more than on kind of medication for OCD.

If she is being admitted into a hospital - see if YOU can care for her child. IE: that you don't need to notify the xbf or his parents. 



> To be honest, I don't know if I can handle it or not. I do know that I need to at least try. Pick an amount of time, 6 months, 9 months, 12 months, and give it all I have. She needs to know that there is no guarantee.


 That's good. Talk to her about it when she has settled down a bit - come to an agreement that you both feel is a good time, with an option to extend. ODAAT "One Day At A Time" Like if you did 9 months - didn't feel quite healed but maybe 80% healed... then you can add another 3 months and see how you both feel about each other. Right?

Do you best.


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## sarpar (Feb 23, 2017)

hudson said:


> When we were friends a mutual friend was having a small party, *she had a 1-2 (strong) drinks and started heavily flirting with the guys there*, which was very out of character for her. It was a long time ago but from what I recall *she was all over them*. I've *never seen her tipsy or drunk since*. I don't think she did anything with them, we're still friends with them and I never heard anything about it, but *I left before she did*. I forgot about that until now, actually.


This is a *MASSIVE* red flag. 

First off, if she is that easily swayed by a drink or two she is a prime candidate for drinking too much and cheating. Of course she'll blame in on the alcohol. 

Second, she is a woman who is known to have participated (one way or another) in group sex. Flirting and throwing herself at a group of men is a huge warning sign. You left early, you have no idea what went on when you left. Maybe no one wanted to talk about it but something did happen. If your friends all banged a woman you were trying to date they might not want to say anything to you. 

Third, she stopped drinking after that night. That means something DID happen. It wasn't a coincidence.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah, right - because nobody in the world DRINKS... get drunk and flirt. That is why MANY people drink... we drink, we flirt. I've been drunk at parties and clubs doesn't always mean I get laid or anyone else for that matter.

Where you there? She barely knew hudson back then and was not even dating him... so what business is that of his OR YOURS at that time?

Geez.


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## sarpar (Feb 23, 2017)

hudson said:


> We rarely fought. When we did it was small things, like I said something that she didn't agree with or wasn't politically correct. I'd bet my last dollar that is her #1 complaint about me, *the crap that spews out of my mouth without me thinking*.


There has been evidence of that here. You may not mean to, but you have said things that would seriously hurt her if she read them. If you say things like that to her, you are not going to aid in her recovery.

Example:


> I'm not the one that had a couple dozen ****s rammed up my ass


Your thread was linked to her thread numerous times, though promptly deleted. The amount of troll comments on HER thread skyrocketed after that. They are deleted within minutes but there is a chance she saw them. Her threads have been locked by admin now.


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## sarpar (Feb 23, 2017)

TaDor said:


> Yeah, right - because nobody in the world DRINKS... get drunk and flirt. That is why MANY people drink... we drink, we flirt. I've been drunk at parties and clubs doesn't always mean I get laid or anyone else for that matter.
> 
> Where you there? She barely knew hudson back then and was not even dating him... so what business is that of his OR YOURS at that time?
> 
> Geez.


And do you stop drinking entirely after you have a night of flirting with a group of women?'

If she had another gang bang 5 years after leaving her ex, a type of sex she claimed to hate, that contradicts her whole story. There is no other reason she would have stopped drinking after that night, other than she did something she regretted doing.


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## sarpar (Feb 23, 2017)

TaDor said:


> You are talking about going to therapy with her and that you love her. Call her by her name or Girlfriend, at least. My "wife" is not technically my wife anymore - but I still think of her that way and I am still her "hubby", I've been calling her my wife weeks after I proposed to her many years ago.


That is a horrible idea. They are broken up. Directly from her mouth:



> He came home, took the ring back, said I'm not who he agreed to marry and that he doesn't think of me the same anymore.


He took her engagement ring from her. Lord knows what he's done with it since, probably sold it. They are DONE. Yes they might work on it but they are not together. Using titles like they are together is only going to confuse and hurt her. 

I agree that he does need to be *VERY* clear that they are not together and not starting where they left off. She will probably want to go back to being engaged and very hurt when he takes his proposal back.


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## heyyo (Feb 17, 2017)

sarpar said:


> There is no other reason she would have stopped drinking after that night, other than she did something she didn't want to.


Or she likes/liked it, but regretted what she is capable to do under the influence because someone like hudson could marry and take care of her and her son in the future. Just a speculation..


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## sarpar (Feb 23, 2017)

heyyo said:


> Or she likes/liked it, but regretted what she is capable to do under the influence because someone like hudson could marry and take care of her and her son in the future. Just a speculation..


If I had to put money on it I would say something did happen with those friends of his. She regretted it and stopped drinking after that. After all, a nice boy like Hudson isn't going to want a party girl. That is when the covering up started. She needed someone to take care of her and her son, so some things in her life had to go. 

He shouldn't ask her about it, she's to messed up right now. Any one of those friends should be able to tell him what really went down. Is he really going to want to marry a woman who (possibly) screwed half of his friend group?


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

To be frank, intimacy is probably more special because she is choosing to do it with me. 


These are your own words but you're not understanding them.

Allow me to help you. YOU are the one she CHOSE to be intimate with. Just you. All the others were FORCED upon her when she was not of an age to be able to stand up for herself.

She was and still is yours and only yours, and the loss of you is slowly but surely killing her.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

What an awful story. As far as the recent events. She was at a party drinking, flirting with some men. OK, so let’s say she had group sex with them. Ever stop to think she did it, not because she enjoys it, but because that’s how she views herself as what she is worthy of? She might’ve done it and she might’ve even appeared to LIKE it, however, unless you’re an abuse victim – you have NO idea. There is an entire separate state of mind that you enter when trying to please someone because you’re conditioned to believe that you don’t mean sh*t. But you’re not allowed to express displeasure or a desire to not do those things. You’re trained to do it and do it and enjoy it. So you do. And then you feel like scum afterwards.

Abuse victims will mimic what is done to them as well. My little deaf cousin broke my heart. I am 5 years older than her. When I was 14 and she was 9, we were at my grandmas house for Christmas. She and I were down in the finished basement watching TV. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. I had gone upstairs to get drinks. When I came back down, she wanted to “cheers” me with our glasses. I’d seen my parents do it, no big deal. So we “Cheers”ed with our solo cups of sprite. She laid down beside me. We were both girls, she was my cousin, I didn’t think anything about it. She wanted to hold hands. Again, didn’t think anything about it. Next thing I knew, she took my drink out of my hand, kissed and threw herself on top of me and tried to put her hand down my pants. She was 9 years old. My daughter is currently 9. A typical 9 year old is not sexualized. Would not DO something like that. Unless she was SHOWN. It came out many years later that she was sexually abused by her father. Raped with a screwdriver. She now has multiple personality disorder. 7 children by 7 different men, 3 of them dead. Heroin addict. I have no doubt that when she attempted that with me, it was because she thought that’s what was expected of her in order to receive love and attention. Since she and I were hanging out and having fun and watching a movie, she thought she needed to seduce me. I have NO doubt that’s how it went down with her own dad. She did what she thought she was supposed to do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> What an awful story. As far as the recent events. She was at a party drinking, flirting with some men. OK, so let’s say she had group sex with them. Ever stop to think she did it, not because she enjoys it, but because that’s how she views herself as what she is worthy of? She might’ve done it and she might’ve even appeared to LIKE it, however, unless you’re an abuse victim – you have NO idea. There is an entire separate state of mind that you enter when trying to please someone because you’re conditioned to believe that you don’t mean sh*t. But you’re not allowed to express displeasure or a desire to not do those things. You’re trained to do it and do it and enjoy it. So you do. And then you feel like scum afterwards.
> 
> Abuse victims will mimic what is done to them as well. My little deaf cousin broke my heart. I am 5 years older than her. When I was 14 and she was 9, we were at my grandmas house for Christmas. She and I were down in the finished basement watching TV. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. I had gone upstairs to get drinks. When I came back down, she wanted to “cheers” me with our glasses. I’d seen my parents do it, no big deal. So we “Cheers”ed with our solo cups of sprite. She laid down beside me. We were both girls, she was my cousin, I didn’t think anything about it. She wanted to hold hands. Again, didn’t think anything about it. Next thing I knew, she took my drink out of my hand, kissed and threw herself on top of me and tried to put her hand down my pants. She was 9 years old. My daughter is currently 9. A typical 9 year old is not sexualized. Would not DO something like that. Unless she was SHOWN. It came out many years later that she was sexually abused by her father. Raped with a screwdriver. She now has multiple personality disorder. 7 children by 7 different men, 3 of them dead. Heroin addict. I have no doubt that when she attempted that with me, it was because she thought that’s what was expected of her in order to receive love and attention. Since she and I were hanging out and having fun and watching a movie, she thought she needed to seduce me. I have NO doubt that’s how it went down with her own dad. She did what she thought she was supposed to do.


If she did it while they were together then that is cheating, that would be a bridge way to far for me. The understanding in this relationship is that she had that kind of thing under control. Let's not assume the worst here. So far none of her actions have proactively hurt OP. This would change that, and that adds an entirely different dynamic.

IF she did do something then yes her background may have caused it, but if she is still behaving in such ways then she is in no position to be in a relationship with anyone.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

sokillme said:


> If she did it while they were together then that is cheating, that would be a bridge way to far for me. The understanding in this relationship is that she had that kind of thing under control. Let's not assume the worst here. So far none of her actions have proactively hurt OP. This would change that, and that adds an entirely different dynamic.
> 
> IF she did do something then yes her background may have caused it, but if she is still behaving in such ways then she is in no position to be in a relationship with anyone.


OP said this went down before they were dating.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> OP said this went down before they were dating.


OK I missed that, I thought it was at the beginning of their dating. It would still be harder because this is a pattern that was supposedly done for good.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

That was when hudson just knew who she was... (Likely not even friend level) and the ONLY time he has seen her drink that much alcohol. Since then, stayed away from drug users and refused most if not all drinks when offered. Yes, she and OP have drank here and there apparently, but she never got wasted or more than lightly drunk since they have been together.

Can't believe you missed that, sokillme. 

I also think that if the OP's friends were having their way with her - they would have told him "hey, she's easy" a long time ago. Nothing she has done in the past 3+ years has she or the OP indicated infidelity and I doubt she'd want to do mutli-partner sex acts since she left those people behind when she was 19 or so, I think if she did - drug and booze abuse would be obvious. That's just speculations from others.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

@hudson, how are things going? Any luck getting XF to a hospital? 




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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

heartbroken50 said:


> @hudson, how are things going? Any luck getting XF to a hospital?


Yeah, she is in the hospital. She is being evaluated today to determine if they can involuntarily keep her longer. It's been extremely rough. She has been kept more heavily sedated than her medical team would like. Right now they are calling it brief psychosis or reactive psychosis, someone else said something totally different. She isn't able/willing to give an accurate history and of course I left her so I wasn't there to help her and now, help them - and her. It was (most likely) caused by an "extraordinary stressful event", which means her ex and how I treated her was the cause. The psychiatrist overseeing her said most people recover, but not all. She has underlying conditions, and she's going to have to go back to cognitive behavioral therapy.

I feel like such a ****. The way that I treated her, the way that I talked to her and let others talk to her... No one should ever have done that, let alone the man who was engaged to her. 

I told my (close) friend and my parents that they could probably find her in the gang bang section of PornHub. I ignored her pleas and cries to just hear her out and go home. I ripped the engagement ring off her finger that I had put there just days prior and waited 8 months to give her. I told her that it was garbage now and worthless after touching her. I told her that she was disgusting and I couldn't believe I was with her, that I felt dirty for ever being with her. ...I said that she might as well go back to ****ing every guy she comes across because no one else would want her... 

And then, the only way I could get her to the hospital was by telling her the doctors there would cut off her skin and genitalia. That's how strong the delusions are/were and what I caused.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

You want to help her? Go sit with her. When she wakes up let you be the first thing she sees.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

hudson said:


> Yeah, she is in the hospital. She is being evaluated today to determine if they can involuntarily keep her longer. It's been extremely rough. She has been kept more heavily sedated than her medical team would like. Right now they are calling it brief psychosis or reactive psychosis, someone else said something totally different. She isn't able/willing to give an accurate history and of course I left her so I wasn't there to help her and now, help them - and her. It was (most likely) caused by an "extraordinary stressful event", which means her ex and how I treated her was the cause. The psychiatrist overseeing her said most people recover, but not all. She has underlying conditions, and she's going to have to go back to cognitive behavioral therapy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Try not to take responsibility for things that aren't your doing.

Yes, you could have reacted better, but you didn't have all of the information at that time. Now you do.

Her past is not your fault...and you did not cause her current mental crisis... her criminal XBF bears that responsibility. 

Right now what's most important is for her to get help, and you have helped make that happen despite your own pain and struggle to understand. This is great. Try to focus on helping in her recovery even if it just means being there for her. Worry about your future relationship later.... much later. Right now she needs your friendship most.

As far as what you told others about your split, you can set the record straight. You'll be surprised that they may be able to better support you and her once the truth is out in the open.

Predators like Gibrale's XBF thrive on secrecy and shame. The truth exposes him as the monster he is. 


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Cause and effect are never simple in real life. Your recent actions and words may have been a catalyst for her current pain, but the root cause of it lies in actions taken long ago by others. Direct most of your anger at them. 

The time comes that we need to meet our own eyes in the mirror and face the fact that we are not as strong, brave, kind, loving, tolerant, or moral as we thought we were. I think this is part of confronting our basic humanity. I think that those of us who have led happy, blessed, protected lives largely untouched by the ugliness that swirls in the world, find this the hardest. We have been taught that we are the Good Ones. But the reality is that none of us are. And that those who have not been tested before, walk in arrogance. Because they think that they would do/be better in the circumstances they see others flounder in. 

You loved a woman and her son. Then you found out that that she was not what you had imagined. And the reality of her life was ugly to you. Your love for her was tested beyond breaking point. There are those who say that in your pain, you did not respond in the way that was Right. There are those who say that you responded with honesty - it was clumsy and hurtful, but it was honest. But the only eyes that you need to meet are your own. 

You need to make choices about how to support someone you still care for deeply through an awful time. You feel (at least partially) responsible for where she is now. You need to decide with all of your honest heart what you have to offer her. What you can be to her. If you allow guilt to take away your honesty, then you do her a disservice. But if you allow your own pain, shame and anger to mask what you can be for her, then you also sell her and yourself short. I may have missed this in your thread, but if you are not in IC, then please get that or find someone wise and patient to talk to. 

Thoughts are with you.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm in tears, hudson. 
She was not who others claimed to be. Most of us here know what lying cheaters are like. They cry a bit for being busted but get over it quickly when they leave the room. They usually get pissed and vindictive. They insult their SO - in their face and behind their back to others. Cheater don't self-destruct like this.

Make up for it. And in case you are not there when she wakes up, leave many of her favorite flowers. Go with heartbroken50 advice, of course.

Other than perhaps her psychologist, maybe keep is vague or own up to it. "A bad person in her life broke us up with vindictive deception. She already has a doctor who knows her history as a CSA survivor. But yes, she is very very hurt and I want to be here to help." If the docs require more - give it.

Do your best.


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## hudson (Jan 29, 2017)

syhoybenden said:


> You want to help her? Go sit with her. When she wakes up let you be the first thing she sees.


I'm there as much as I can be. I've put a hold on working right now, I can't focus anyway. I'm looking after her son and he doesn't need to see his mother like that. Her psychiatrist and psychiatric nurse agreed that her son shouldn't be there unless he is distressed about not seeing her. When she's doing better he can go. He's a smart kid, he misses her but he's doing ok. During the week, when he's in school, I'll be able to spend more time there. 

I will have to inform my family and friends about my mistake at some point. At the moment I just want to focus on her. I can barely focus enough to get a coherent sentence out. People talk around me and they might as well be speaking Mandarin.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stay strong @hudson. You are doing your best. It won't be easy, but your character is showing and your priorities are in line.

Supporting someone through a devastating crisis like this will be draining and scary... it will be made harder because your relationship is unstable... please consider IC for yourself as others have suggested.




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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

This is very sad. All you can do it be with her. Time will hopefully heal you both.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah, for now - the boy and his mom are what you look at. If you have time - keep yourself busy a bit, cleaning up the home and make it welcoming for when she comes out. Just let him know she isn't feeling well and will be home ASAP. Even if she is not physically able to see him, but is well enough to handle a phone call to him - do that. 

If you think it's okay (ask Doctors first) make a audio/video recording of the boy to show his mom when she wakes up.

Remind her that her flesh is not dirty(when appropriate), that you and the boy need's for her to be intact - mind and body to be his mom and your girlfriend. You are taking care of both, she is your girlfriend.
I don't recommend a "fiancee" status - that is for later... in MC with her, that your goal is for the both of you to heal, forgive each other and yourselves - that you would like to get to a place that marriage would be acceptable to the both of you. You need to rebuild her trust in you. That you want all of her. The instability of your relationship is very real... There is a chance she may not want you back - this is why trust building is required for both of you. Why MC is important - to help you both sort out your thoughts, your feelings and help recover from the damage. You can only apologize for being late in figuring out how to open your eyes. Unfortunately, you didn't have friends who would have seen the attack on your family for what it is. If I knew you personally and you told me your side of the story months ago - I'd still kick your ass into knowing the facts, etc as I have on this thread.

Continue learning about CSA but also GO TO IC for yourself - while kiddo is in school (it's a must hudson, there is only so MUCH we can do online). Look at books for self-improvement. I think it would be helpful for her - to show her that YOU can grow, it may help her heal and learn she can get better as well. So perhaps see what you can check out at the library. 

Give each other strength.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry for the turn of events @hudson. 

It sounds like she is getting great care, but also be a medical advocate for her (to the best of your ability). She's unable to make decisions and if no blood relatives are available, you should advocate for her. Turn it around and learn from your behavior and experience.

Let us know how you're both doing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heyyo said:


> But how do u think it feels for a southern man who's been raised with interracial relationships being wrong watching something like that? It's a deep conflict.
> 
> Yes, it was probably a little worse for him because there were black men involved in the sexual acts, but can you really blame him when he was raised that way? It's not his fault. But regardless if he was raised that way or not, that's his opinion. If he doesn't like it then I think one should just respect his opinion.
> 
> "hudson" seems to be a genuinely good man.


Absolutely.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

You do well in cherishing that which she cherishes. Wishing strength and courage to you all.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

I suppose I'm confused as to why there is so much "be there for her" type advice being floated out there. hudson is a victim of pure fraud, coupled with that fraud containing a true deal breaker for him. They are not married and only engaged as a result of him being unaware of the fraudulent actions being kept from him. I'm sorry, but this seems like a case where advising a clean break for hudson to start "clean" with someone who doesn't have this past and current mental baggage is the wisest course of action.

Sure, he has "sunken costs" invested in this relationship, but in the end, isn't this really a case of it being "not his circus, and not his monkeys".


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

MyRevelation said:


> I suppose I'm confused as to why there is so much "be there for her" type advice being floated out there. hudson is a victim of pure fraud, coupled with that fraud containing a true deal breaker for him. They are not married and only engaged as a result of him being unaware of the fraudulent actions being kept from him. I'm sorry, but this seems like a case where advising a clean break for hudson to start "clean" with someone who doesn't have this past and current mental baggage is the wisest course of action.
> 
> Sure, he has "sunken costs" invested in this relationship, but in the end, isn't this really a case of it being "not his circus, and not his monkeys".



Sorry but I find your analysis to be not only dead wrong but reptilian in its lack of empathy.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

syhoybenden said:


> Sorry but I find your analysis to be not only dead wrong but reptilian in its lack of empathy.


... and I find her behavior and actions heinous. Once someone finds that their whole relationship was based on a HUGE lie (even a lie of omission), they owe no further duty to that person, and their first priority at that point is to themselves.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Reptilian then it is, and totally uncomprehending.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Moderator note:

Sorry folks, but we have been the unfortunate recipients of a troll.

The account on LS is banned as well for trolling.

This thread is now closed.


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