# I know this is controversial , but...



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Can men and women really be " just friends?"

I came across this online discussion with Steve Harvey on Youtube recently and it got me thinking.

Can men and women be Just Friends? Steve Harvey Gets Real..

The vid runs for just 6 mins but it's quite interesting IMO.

Steve's theory is that the only reason a man agrees to be 
" just friends" with a woman is because she's made it clear that she's not interested in a sexual relationship with him. But women refuse to see that.
He's saying that the first sexual opportunity he gets from a female " friend" , a male " friend " would exploit it.

While I can understand Steve's point, I think that there might be exceptions because all three of my close friends are female , and I do have lots of female friends. Some I've cut off because they either became too attached [ clingy] or they outright wanted sex.[ which was awkward]

On the flip side my female friends are also friends with my wife , respect and have never tried to compete with my wife. 

When I was single, at one time I hung out with a a group of girls who I used to go clubbing, beach, etc with. We talked openly about our escapades and kept secrets for each other. Sometimes after clubbing , we all slept over by one of them and I hated to sleep on the couch so I used to sleep on a king size bed with two of them, while the other two slept in another bedroom.
It was fun, but never sexual.
They were hotties ,but I respected their boundaries, and I can't ever remember feeling that I wanted to F any of them. Lol, I think It benefited me , because they would sometimes play
" wingman" for me, and hook me up with other hot girls.
I have never pretended to be " just friends" with a woman in order to gain sexual favours from her. If I wanted to have sex with a woman she'd know it from the start. I wasn't shy.
Friendships with women was never a thorny issue for me. It was either I'm sexually attracted to you or not.

I think a huge part of this issue has to do with how people view sex and value relationships.

What do you think?
What has been your experience?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Personally,I can't be friends with a man unless he's a mutual friend of DH's and mine.It's a limitation I have.Being aware of it and admitting it is my biggest weapon against f**king up.
My limitation has nothing to do with how much I value my relationship or how I view sex. The fact that I recognize and admit to the limitation has every thing to do with valuing my relationship.

If a man or a woman can be friends with the opposite sex independent of their partner,more power to them.I can't judge.I simply can't be included in it.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I think it can vary based on the "alpha" status of the man. 

A dude that can easily bed hot women is more likely to have female friends that he's not trying to bed.... after all, if he wants some hot strange, it's there for his taking.

All other guys.... I think they fit Paul Hervey's description. Any female friend is subject to becoming a 'friend with benefits' if she offers. That's barring that he's not already spoken for and has the morals to resist.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think it is true a man cannot be "just friends" with a woman he finds sexually attractive.

I have numerous female friends in the neighborhood, and of course many coworkers. I am definitely "just friends" with many of them, with no desire to have sex with them. Even if they made sex easily available I have no sexual attraction to them. There are some women whom I find sexually attractive and I have to maintain boundaries with them. While I have no intention to cheat, it would be easy to get overly interested and possible start into EA territory with them due to the sexual attraction.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> My limitation has nothing to do with how much I value my relationship or how I view sex. The fact that I recognize and admit to the limitation has every thing to do with valuing my relationship.
> 
> If a man or a woman can be friends with the opposite sex independent of their partner,more power to them.I can't judge.I simply can't be included in it.


I've most definitely raised boundaries over what I had before. The biggest one for me is with female coworkers - most of all on business trips. I think I'm fortunate being an engineer, most of my coworkers are male. You go on a two week trip, lots of stress and lots of hours followed with partying it up when it's done and you cut lose on the weekend really bonds you with those that you travel with. I've become very good friends with several of those guys. I could see it easily tread into EA territory if a female coworker was along. The bonds I formed with the guys made me realize I don't want one of those bonds with a female coworkers since it would only be dangerous.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I think it can vary based on the "alpha" status of the man.
> 
> A dude that can easily bed hot women is more likely to have female friends that he's not trying to bed.... after all, if he wants some hot strange, it's there for his taking.


:iagree:

A lot of men spend years thinking that being the best friend, and hoping for a weak moment is the best way to get the girl. Admittedly most of the men that I knew coming up that took this approach were not exactly ladies men if you catch my drift.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I never got the I only like you as a friend speech from anyone, I just think most normal men (including myself) when told this moved on to a woman that wants to be more than friends instead of spinning their wheels on someone who isn't interested. Some get stuck here a lot for some reason though. Hoping to change the lady's minds I guess???


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I have always had female friends, and most were sexually attractive as well. However, they were not suitable for a relationship for whatever reason, so I didn't find it difficult to not sleep with them if the opportunity arose. I'm very good at keeping boundaries, and I value a long term friendship over a fling that could end that friendship. Some I did date until we decided it wasn't going to work, but remained friends - a couple of women I once dated have been friends for over 40 years.

On the other hand, I've also had friends with "benefits" (FWB). All have remained friends long after the end of the "benefits." And all are now friends with my wife as well.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

I enjoy female company. I think I'm like a woman in this respect, that I put people into the friends category, and then that's final. 

Other men are so cheap and easy with their sexuality... they undermine things for the rest of us with this 'I'm a friend' (waiting for his chance) behaviour. 

These guys make me so angry, because I can read their body language, and yet ... I give my partners a chance to hang themselves with it, because It's a good test. If they don't pass it, better to find out early.

I get the impression, CM, that you place a value on your sexuality, so can you have self-control ? ... I believe you. If you have self-respect, then self-control is real.

There is a saying I liked about men who are manipulative, versus woman who are.

"Women are so clever... they can fake orgasms, and the man will never know. But men can fake entire relationships!" 

In that context, if a woman goes into a relationship with a male 'friend' around the time they are 'having problems' with their boyfriend/husband... well, more fool her - two lowlifes found each other, the world keeps turning.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> They were hotties ,but I respected their boundaries, and I can't ever remember feeling that I wanted to F any of them. Lol, I think It benefited me , because they would sometimes play
> " wingman" for me, and hook me up with other hot girls.
> I have never pretended to be " just friends" with a woman in order to gain sexual favours from her. If I wanted to have sex with a woman she'd know it from the start. I wasn't shy.
> Friendships with women was never a thorny issue for me. It was either I'm sexually attracted to you or not.
> ...


I agree with you, I have been there and done that, but I also kind of agree with steve's point that at least in a subconscious level we probably see any woman we let close to us as a posible sexual partner.

the think is how we handle ourselves, I had two close friends with the same kind of friendship you had with those chicks and I never tried to cross the line of friendship (they were hot BTW).

but there are some pricks that play friend to manipulate and get in the pants of married women, so we know why many culd be eskeptic of men being friends with women for other reason different than sex unless they had experience it.

I remember a story in the net (don't aks me where because for 7 years I was lurker, but if you search for it you probably are gonna find it) of a woman was lamenting having to cut her best friend for her stupid behaviour.

she meet her friend before her husband, bestfriends, the husband trust them copletely, and when they visited his home he had no problems letting her there and returning to the home before her, in one reunion night with many friends, the husband returned before her, she stayed and got wasted, they were talking in his room, the male friend was also wasted, apparently she was the agressor and kissed him and they fool araound a Little but when she went for his tool, he stopped her, he told her to "think" that they were about to ruin her marriage and she snaped and went home.

she confessed, husband super angry went for confirmation with the friend he accepted and confirmed all the facts that happened and apologized to the husband, they both agreed to continuing the frinedship was innapropiate, and the woman was in distraught, not because she wanted her friend as lover she always saw him just as friend and she didn't know how she was stupid enough to let things happen like that, she agreed with all the conditions and of course agreed wit her husband but was lamenting how she broke such a good frienship of more than a decade for a stupid drunken moment.

of course in this case the friend was a real friend of the wife and her welfare was a above his own pleasure, but we know there are many pricks that would have not been as good friends as he was.

I think that under the wrong circumstances even if it is not the intention any friendship between two persons of different genders can escalate to something sexual, so is best to put boundaries once you are married to avoid making a choice you later will regret


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

Except for mutual friends that I have with my wife, I for one cannot be friends with a women apart from the main marital relationship. 

I used to have girlfriends prior to meeting my wife that were just friends. One in particular lived next door to my parents. She was beautiful but she had a boyfriend that lived half way across the United States as her father was transferred with his job. When I was between girlfriends, we used to do allot together and did become close friends. Even after I met my wife, I still would do things with this girl - actually took this girl to her senior prom - as just friends. However, this relationship actually ended up being the only time I was ever unfaithful to my wife while we were engaged – I never have cheated after we were married. Long story short, I went to visit this girl as I had business close to where she went to college, found out when I got there that she had broken off with the boyfriend – and yup, she came on to me and I could not resist. After I left, she had her parents – through my parents have me give her a call – so I did – and she was crying saying she always loved me and wanted us to be together – I informed her that it was a big mistake and that I still loved my wife to be. As I think back I am lucky as hell that this information never got to my wife.

About four years ago I became Facebook friends with my first love – turn out I was her first love as well. We were both married during this – she would inbox message me to see how my week went – for a couple of months the communication increased – found out she was not that happy in her marriage - but then “Surprise – Surprise!!” she tells me that her husband does not like us communicating. So that worked out real well!! Needless to say, we are not in communication anymore.


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## SugarMonstaa (Aug 30, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Can men and women really be " just friends?"
> 
> I came across this online discussion with Steve Harvey on Youtube recently and it got me thinking.
> 
> ...


I think it depends. I have friends that I can't ever see myself dating at all and I know I'm not his type at all. Some people you see as brother and sister.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm going to place myself on the side that these friendships have more risks than benefits. A year ago, I would have been more open-minded.

Due to my career, I have always kept strict separation of male friends/colleagues. I have a few male work friends who I have discussed personal issues with, but more from the perspective of them asking for a girl's honest advice. I also have what many would consider a work husband. However, I do not go to lunch/dinner/drinks with any of them. I do not call or text about anything other than work-related issues and the only time there is contact outside of work hours is a rare emergency. I will sometimes flirt with males that are friends with both the H and I, but it is done openly, in a casual setting and everyone understands that it means nothing.

The H is a big, fat flirt. Always has been. Basically, he lacks a verbal filter and will say things in front of me, to my mom, his mom, etc...even to dudes. Most of it is blatantly silly and to any intelligent woman is an obvious joke. I'm pretty open-minded and have let him be himself. It's part of his charm. He has also told me when females have hit on him and is quick to cut them loose. He has always told me when he has talked to his female friends and makes sure I have clearly been introduced to each as his wife. He has always been so good because he grew up in a home where both parents were cheaters and he knows the damage.

That all changed in 2013 with his EA that began with a work friend. Basically, I do not trust him with any woman at this point. I will no longer accept these female friends. Unless we are all meeting in a group situation, there's to be no calls/texts/emails/lunches/blah blah blah. He changed jobs. I hate that I now check his social media, email and phone almost daily (he knows it). I hate that he has to curb some of his behavior...but it's his own darn fault. I hate that I now mentally question every female friend we've ever had over the last 23 years. I hate that if I find one more little thing, I will leave and be OK about it. A piece of my heart is now permanently closed to him in order to protect myself.

He is so sad that I don’t trust him. He is working very hard and most days I’m sure we’ll get past it (some days I plan my divorce exit strategy), but we both understand it will never be quite the same. He is ashamed that his children found out and look at him differently. Damage to a family caused by friendships with the opposite sex. And it wasn’t even physical! Sorry, to me it’s just not worth it. If you need that kind of friendship, just stay single.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

I watched the entire 6 minute video. Thanks for sharing Carribean_Man.
I found this forum after I seeing a "I miss you" text message on my husband's phone from a female that I thought was my friend too. I was wrong, she was not my friend, she was an unhappily married woman.
I think Shirley Glass (Not Just Friends) has it right that the friends should be friends of the marriage and not just one person.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> I think it can vary based on the "alpha" status of the man.
> 
> A dude that can easily bed hot women is more likely to have female friends that he's not trying to bed.... after all, if he wants some hot strange, it's there for his taking.
> 
> All other guys.... I think they fit Paul Hervey's description. Any female friend is subject to becoming a 'friend with benefits' if she offers. That's barring that he's not already spoken for and has the morals to resist.


I don't think that's great for his relationships either...if the female friends would actually jump at the chance to sleep with him, how do you think the wife would feel about the female friends hanging around him? Every woman I've ever dated didn't want other woman hanging around because they assumed the other women wanted to be with me.

I've never been in "friend-zone" with any woman, but I know plenty of guys who were. I've had female friends when I was single, but every one of them eventually tried to take it somewhere romantic. In my life's experience, I can't have female friends....work friends, buddy's girlfriend or wife, facebook friends, that's all fine, but just a friend who's female, that I hang out with one-on-one? It has always ventured sexual, and not one of my "significant-other" girlfriends/wife would ever have been cool with it.

This guy did a survey that I found very interesting and realistic. Woman often claim that men and women can be just-friends, but they are aware that some of the "just-friend" guys in their lives want to be more than friends, and they are not cool with their boyfriends having female friends. The guys pretty much just said no, can't be friends. That's the 2-way street I've seen throughout my life, and I wouldn't date a woman who has guy-friends hanging around, nor would I hang out with single women if I was in a relationship.

Why Men and Women Cant be friends - YouTube

In a Relationship? Why Men and Women can't be friends (part 2) - YouTube


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

damagedgoods1 said:


> I think Shirley Glass (Not Just Friends) has it right that the friends should be friends of the marriage and not just one person.


That helps avoid problems, and all of my female friends are at least friendly with my wife, and some are good friends. That doesn't always work, of course, and then good boundaries and openness become increasingly important.

Of course, if any such friend became a negative influence or didn't respect my boundaries, I'd have to end the friendship.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Can someone please document the rules for people of alternate sexuality, out of curiosity? As a straight guy, am I not supposed to be friends with a gay or bi-sexual man? Are bi-sexuals not allowed to be friends with anyone? This is so confusing!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I have female friends that I know longer than my wife. I don't see them as anything other than friends. After 20 plus years it's like that but I would never talk to them about their marriage or my marriage. At this point it's " how's the kids, did your house get damaged from the storm". My wife knows them at this point as well as I do. It's never been a issue. They welcomed my wife, my girlfriend at the time as their friend. It wouldn't be unusual if my wife went and hung out with them without me.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think most people believe they are fully capable of having close, strictly platonic, relationships with their attractive opposite-sex friends. In my experience, the reality is that far fewer of them can actually successfully manage it over the long haul, than think they can.

I'm not saying it's impossible or that it doesn't happen. I just think truly platonic opposite sex friendships are rare.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I didnt watch the video yet, but in my personal experience the answer is YES.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

PBear said:


> Can someone please document the rules for people of alternate sexuality, out of curiosity? As a straight guy, am I not supposed to be friends with a gay or bi-sexual man? Are bi-sexuals not allowed to be friends with anyone? This is so confusing!
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess that depends on how likely it is for you to try and experiment with a guy. 

Both my wife and I are quite confident that I'm not going down that road so we both think it is OK.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I have female friends that I know longer than my wife. I don't see them as anything other than friends. After 20 plus years it's like that but I would never talk to them about their marriage or my marriage. At this point it's " how's the kids, did your house get damaged from the storm". My wife knows them at this point as well as I do. It's never been a issue. They welcomed my wife, my girlfriend at the time as their friend. It wouldn't be unusual if my wife went and hung out with them without me.


I'm not saying that I disagree with you or even know your situation, but a long time (20+ year) female friend of MH who previously welcomed me is the reason I am on this forum.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm bisexual (fully), so where does that leave me? Do I get rid of all my friends?

Just looking for your opinion.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> I'm bisexual (fully), so where does that leave me? Do I get rid of all my friends?
> 
> Just looking for your opinion.


Do whatever works for you and your partner. Isn't it really the only thing that matters anyway?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I believe people can have platonic relationships with the opposite sex. Why they would want to is the question. 

It seems some men need/enjoy female company more than the average Joe and vice versa. I'll stick with my own sex for friendship as men really are from Mars and women really are from Venus.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> . But women refuse to see that.


Those women refuse to admit to how manipulative they are.

I'm bisexual too. I'll do both heterosexual women and gay women.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Do whatever works for you and your partner. Isn't it really the only thing that matters anyway?


Oh, I'm not asking for advice. I'm just curious how the OP sees my situation because of the thread.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> Oh, I'm not asking for advice. I'm just curious how the OP sees my situation because of the thread.


I understand

Honestly,I don't have the slightest clue how I'd handle if my husband was bi.  I don't think I could be with him if he was.It would be too confusing for me.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

My H had a lot of female friends when we start dating. A LOT! But it was 2 or 3 who he thought of as really close friends. Because of his past we agreed they had to go. OSF just do not work for us. He have a magnetic personality. He is the kind who will go to the hardware store and make a friend for life. But that include females as well and that just don't work for me. 

As for me, I never had a boyfriend in high school although I tried hard to. But boys I was attracted to were just loser-types and the boys where I like how they acted and how they were serious about school and school activities, I just was not attracted to them as boyfriends. I guess truthfully I could not get my H out of mind even though he did not give me the time of day until I was just about done with school.

Caribbean I know you and my H had the same type of experiences as a young guy. You did not find this a problem with having OSF in your marriage? Or were you done with that life long before you met your wife?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Anonymous Person said:


> I'm bisexual (fully), so where does that leave me? Do I get rid of all my friends?
> 
> Just looking for your opinion.


Yes. You should also wear a chastity belt, and a sign round your neck warning people.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I enjoy female company. I think I'm like a woman in this respect, that I put people into the friends category, and then that's final.
> 
> *Other men are so cheap and easy with their sexuality... they undermine things for the rest of us with this 'I'm a friend' (waiting for his chance) behaviour.
> 
> ...


Yes I place some value on my sexuality , and even when I was single there were certain types I wouldn't have sex with , sometimes even if they were super attractive. 

And if I put a person into a " friend zone" I never put down moves on them. " Friend" => Sister to me back then. Even now that I'm married and I do flirt lightly with some women . If I tell a woman that she looks good I mean it , but it doesn't mean CM wants to F her. It simply means that I can appreciate a woman's beauty from a man's viewpoint without getting weak in the knees. I have special " types" that do it for me, fortunately, my wife is one.

I've always been very " picky" with women.

I think you are right some guys act very " cheesy" and some women pretend to be clueless. I guess its comes down to personal boundaries.

But I think there's some substance to what Steve is saying. Some men are just like that. Not talking about the " cheesy " ones, but maybe some men perceive the dynamics of those things differently.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Can men and women really be " just friends?"


I actually haven't watched the video yet so the answer to my question may found within. 

My question for the OP is: what does it mean concretely to be friends with a member of the opposite sex? 

A couple of examples:

-Outside of a work context (ie. an old friend from college): would it mean going out together, calling to discuss problems or just to see how the other is doing, sharing personal issues., etc. 

-Within he context of work (ie. a more recent friend): would it mean going to lunch together on a regular basis, going for coffee breaks together, confiding in each other about work and personal issues, etc.?

I think the above are examples of how friends behave with each other and as a married woman, there are no heterosexual men I would have this kind of relationship with. I just feel as though it would be asking for trouble. I wouldn't be comfortable with my husband having these kind of relationships either.

There is a difference, however, between friends and acquaintances.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> I'm bisexual (fully), so where does that leave me? Do I get rid of all my friends?
> 
> Just looking for your opinion.


I'm not telling anyone to get rid of their OSF's because I have OSF's.

But what I'm asking is for your experience and opinion.
Yours seem unique, so what are your boundaries?


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

My best friend is a man, but he is gay, so no threat there. I prefered male friends in the past, as women tend to be catty and I seem to attract the borderline personality women. I have a couple of female friends now, but we honestly aren't that close. 
I have really haven't developed any NEW friendships with males, the one that wants to be my friend has also expressed interest in me romantically several times and so I keep myself at a distance.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm not telling anyone to get rid of their OSF's because I have OSF's.
> 
> But what I'm asking is for your experience and opinion.
> Yours seem unique, so what are your boundaries?


*I avoid excessive physical contact with my friends* 
*I don't share personal information about my marriage to my friends.*
*I don't spend time alone 1-1 with any of my friends.*
I don't have Facebook, Twitter, etc.
*I text/call my friends infrequently.*
I avoid flirtatious conversation with my friends.

*My best friend is the exception to those rules.*

Other boundaries would be not drinking if my husband is not present, not being nude in front of others or flirting with others.

I'm not going to lie, I would cheat if I didn't keep boundaries, these are rules I made for myself.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> My H had a lot of female friends when we start dating. A LOT! But it was 2 or 3 who he thought of as really close friends. Because of his past we agreed they had to go. OSF just do not work for us. He have a magnetic personality. He is the kind who will go to the hardware store and make a friend for life. But that include females as well and that just don't work for me.
> 
> As for me, I never had a boyfriend in high school although I tried hard to. But boys I was attracted to were just loser-types and the boys where I like how they acted and how they were serious about school and school activities, I just was not attracted to them as boyfriends. I guess truthfully I could not get my H out of mind even though he did not give me the time of day until I was just about done with school.
> 
> Caribbean I know you and my H had the same type of experiences as a young guy. You did not find this a problem with having OSF in your marriage? Or were you done with that life long before you met your wife?


I was actually friends with my wife when I was running wild. I 
" friend zoned " her because she just wasn't " that type of girl "
so I fully respected her. But she always treated me exceptionally well. So I knew she liked me more than " just friends" but she hated my lifestyle.

Anyway, when we decided to get together, I cut off all my former OSF friends, and those that I now have are friends we agreed on. They are also good friends with my wife. They purchase gifts for my birthday her birthday and she does for theirs. 
Whenever my wife goes on vacation, she purchases stuff for them, and they do the same for her. They respect our marriage.

I make fiends especially with women very easily.
For instance, there's a grill house I always go to purchase grilled salmon or swordfish.
I made friends with a couple of the ladies working there so whenever I go to purchase, I never join the line, they signal me I go directly to the checkout and place my order. They also know my wife and treats her the same.
These types of friends to me are like " acquaintances." We never exchange phone # , we never hang out , if I see them in the streets I say " hi " wave hem and that's it. I won't sit and have a coffee with them or anything.

On the other hand, my close female friends I mentioned earlier, three of them became close because of the business I'm into.
So they swing deals for me , I do the same for them and we generally look out for each other. We hang out together and my wife is always invited. Whenever they sending invites,whether its for a fashion meet , musical or whatever, they ask me first if my wife would be interested. It's hard to describe, but it's like more of a business / friendship network. We never discuss feelings and that type of sh!t. We always talking about money, politics ,entertainment , almost just like guys..
If they call home for me they usually chat with my wife first out of respect.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I understand
> 
> Honestly,I don't have the slightest clue how I'd handle if my husband was bi.  I don't think I could be with him if he was.It would be too confusing for me.


Our daughter is bi, and the last bf she had was very jealous of every friend she had, either sex. So it was confusing for him. 

I do think her gfs were more jealous of other females than any guy, however. 

I think bisexual folks need a partner who is strong within themselves, not insecure or possessive. It narrows the life-mate field a lot, to find that one perfect person, regardless of gender.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Can men and women really be " just friends?"
> 
> I came across this online discussion with Steve Harvey on Youtube recently and it got me thinking.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that this is TV and Steve Harvey is an entertainer / comedian / talk show host. What he says in this video needs to be taken with a grain of salt. 

What I got out of what he said is that we need to stop being so naive about our friendships, and we need to have boundaries.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

damagedgoods1 said:


> Keep in mind that this is TV and Steve Harvey is an entertainer / comedian / talk show host. What he says in this video needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> What I got out of what he said is that we need to stop being so naive about our friendships, and we need to have boundaries.


I don't know. I gave my sister a copy of his dating book "Think like a Man". It was pretty spot on as far as how to to command respect from suitors. He seems to have a pretty good understanding of relationships, and pretty much tells it like it is. Whats so disheartening to me is that in the book he straight up tells women how to avoid getting played. Yet, so many I know who've read it are still having trouble.

Knowing what to do an implementing it are two different things. Players are charming ad often good looking. If they weren't. They wouldn't be players.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Our daughter is bi, and the last bf she had was very jealous of every friend she had, either sex. So it was confusing for him.
> 
> I do think her gfs were more jealous of other females than any guy, however.
> 
> I think bisexual folks need a partner who is strong within themselves, not insecure or possessive. It narrows the life-mate field a lot, to find that one perfect person, regardless of gender.


I think bi folks need to find someone who is on board w their preferences. It has nothing to do w lack of inner strength,for me at least. I'm not attracted to the thought of being w a bisexual man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I've had women who were friends, and friends who turned into lovers, and lovers who were friends after we stopped being lovers. It all depends on the people involved. There's not that much to talk about, really, in that regard, in my experience. You just know it. If one crosses that line, the other says whatever kind, friendly thing needs to be said. That's it. Don't blow it out of proportion. 

That said, W and I have no OSFs. To me, this is more for the security of her heart than me being able to control myself.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think bi folks need to find someone who is on board w their preferences. It has nothing to do w lack of inner strength,for me at least. I'm not attracted to the thought of being w a bisexual man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, although I've been with bisexual women. Turns out my ex was closet for a looooong time, come to think of it. 

What I mean by inner strength is confidence in ones self, rather than getting it from their partner. And frankly, I don't see a lot of 20-somethings having that long-term perspective that gives people 2X that age or more better clarity.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't know. I gave my sister a copy of his dating book "Think like a Man". It was pretty spot on as far as how to to command respect from suitors. He seems to have a pretty good understanding of relationships, and pretty much tells it like it is. Whats so disheartening to me is that in the book he straight up tells women how to avoid getting played. Yet, so many I know who've read it are still having trouble.
> 
> Knowing what to do an implementing it are two different things. Players are charming ad often good looking. If they weren't. They wouldn't be players.


I think Steve Harvey is spot on with a lot of things he says about relationships in the past. I usually agree with him.

That's why this vid jumped out at me.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> That said, W and I have no OSFs. To me, this is more for the security of her heart than me being able to control myself.


Thats exactly why we don't have OSFs either.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I have several close OS friends, some of whom I've known since I was a small child. Most are married, but there are 2 who are single. Our friendships are still very close, but we don't hang out alone together. One of them straight-up told me shortly after I got married that he wasn't going to keep my vows for me, and as far as our physical relationship (we'd fooled around a few times in college), the ball was in my court, but he'd always be willing. Ever since then, I've suspected that he was just saying out loud what every man is thinking.

So, I don't know. I haven't had any trouble, even though my marriage is all but over, because I just won't let anything happen. I think being aware that it's not a totally asexual relationship is important and helps me keep appropriate boundaries. When I was in college, I ended up in an EA/almost PA with an engaged guy because I was naive about male/female friendships.

As far as the guy who propositioned me, don't get mad, I told my H all about it. He has no problem with me being friends with the guy. Which I always thought was weird, but so is my H.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

This is not a black and white issue. Personally, I have always been more comfortable in relationships with men than with women. I do not understand most women. I am not one that enjoys shopping. I don't see the point in gossip and I've never understood the dynamics of women who are BFF's one day and stabbing each other the next. 

Having said that, while I was single, I have to say that most of my friendships with men began because there was a sexual interest. Once I made it clear that my interest was purely platonic, the relationship either dissolved or developed into a friendship. As a single person, having these types of friendships is fine. Just know your boundaries. 

As a married women, I still have friendships with men. Not many but there are some. Usually in the workplace. I don't think this is wrong. It's natural to develop relationships with the people in our lives. The trick is to put up boundaries to protect yourself from friendships becoming EA's. There are several ways to do this. For me, I use radical honesty. 

Several years ago I worked in a factory that was very male dominated. I was the only female in the department. (Ug!) Eye opening experience listening to men talk all day forgetting that a woman was around. There was one man in particular who was a terrible flirt. He was a good guy and we got along really well but he flirted with me ALL THE TIME. I'm not the type of girl that is easily offended and I didn't take offense to this. One day, before Christmas shut-down, he came to say good-bye for the holidays. When he hugged me, he also kissed me on the cheek. I did not expect it and it raised flags for me. I know he didn't mean anything serious by it but it still crossed a line for me. 

When we returned to work, I took him to lunch. I reminded him that I am a "happily" married woman and that all the kidding around we did was exactly that... kidding. I let him know that I talk to my husband about him and what goes on at work on a regular basis. He told me that he loved his wife and that there was nothing more to it than that from his end. It was interesting because while I used openness and honesty to protect myself, he told me that he doesn't tell his wife how he behaves with other women for the very same reason. In his mind, there was nothing to it. He loved his wife and didn't want to cause her pain but his personality was such that he was simply a compulsive flirt. 

After that, our relationship continued as before with one difference. Because he was now aware that my husband knew about his behavior, he would often have messages for him and in a sense, became his friend as well. 

My husband has a female friend that he has known longer than he has known me. They were in the military together and used to go out a lot although they never dated. They are still friends. I've never met her. I've never spoken to her. When he deployed to the middle east back in September, he stayed at her house for a couple of days and they hung out together. This has happened during several of his deployments. I do not feel threatened by this at all. I can't say that would be the case with just anyone, but with her I'm fine.

I just think it's important to know yourself well enough to know if you are vulnerable to someone and then avoid those situations that could lead somewhere dangerous. I am very aware of my vulnerabilities. I'm careful not to play tennis with the devil. If I even begin to feel attracted to someone I will avoid them.

Given the right circumstances, I don't put it past anyone to fall into an EA or even a physical affair. Not even myself. I'd like to think I wouldn't but I simply keep myself from having the opportunity.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would say that if a man can't be good friends with a woman he is thinking about sex way too much.

Women are people, and just because their anatomy is a bit more, ehem, organized, it does not mean friendships can't start that can go on for ever without ever turning sexual.

Anyone from classmates, old friends, coworkers, old coworkers, kids' friends parents, etc. Now, would you start divulging TAM level NSFW details to them, or just discuss the latest PTO power plays?

So, the context of the interaction needs to be considered, too, but overall I feel it is possible, and even beneficial, to show your spouse that you can have such friends without freaking the spouse out.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

On reading this thread I've come to realise something and it somewhat puzzles me.

I have very few, practically no, female friends of my own. I have some female work colleagues. I am friendly with the wives of my friends, and I am friendly with my wife's friends.
When I pop (rarely) to the pub there are a couple of women I chat too, but I keep that low key as a few of them creep me out a bit as they seem to start hanging around and one of them especially, although a nice girl, hugs me on occasion.

The only other one I can think of is a member of the same club that I'm in.

What puzzles me is that I am a very friendly person, I have a good number of male friends but very few female friends and almost none that are 'my' friends alone.

I know I've become very guarded as I went through a stage of being 'hit on' which although flattering I found annoying and alarming.

Perhaps I've gone too far the other way and need to open up a little more?


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> Perhaps I've gone too far the other way and need to open up a little more?


What point is there in having female friends? I don't know any females that play rugby or hockey. So it wasn't discrimination against females that led to having male friends. 

Specifically implementing an "affirmative action" program in friends by seeking out females would have me associating with people that don't like the same things I do. 

I'm guessing *Carribean Man* is either in modeling, dance, hairstyling or something like that. Self-explanatory.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I think it depends on the mental makeup of the man.

I get along far better with women, then I do men. Has always been like that. I'm sensitive but not effeminate. I have guy friends, but they're generally the same personality type as I am. I don't identify with the alpha jock male one bit, never have. Even when I was playing very high level team sports, I was usually the odd man out, felt like I didn't belong in the locker room, and focused solely on the game. I got -this close- to playing professionally, and I honestly don't think I would have survived had I made it.

Over the years, of course I've had female friends that I was attracted to, and would have done anything they wanted if they asked. But I never went that route on my own. Maybe it's lame, but I genuinely valued their friendship more than getting into their pants. Now, if they made it known they wanted more, then I would have (and was) more than happy to oblige. Reason is, they were the ones to cross that line, and for me to say "no thanks, we're friends" would have ended the friendship, anyway, so why not. It wasn't in my mental makeup to be the one to cross that line first, if at all.

To me, friends are more important than another notch on the bedpost. I have friends I've known since I was 5 or 6, and many of my current friends (male and female), I've known since at least junior high. Among the women who have been my friends that long, I am glad that nothing ever "happened", because they likely wouldn't still be in my life at this point, especially being married now. I wouldn't want my wife having male friends who she banged 20 years ago still in her/our lives, so I would have done the same myself.

Nowadays, I have several female friends, some attractive, some not. Some available, some not. I have no interest, and not only because I'm married. They're friends, and that's it.

It's entirely possible, for some of us guys, to do this. It's nothing more than making the distinction between "friend" and "girl I want to bang", and it's really not THAT difficult.

It's human nature, but it's one of those things that we haven't quite evolved from yet. Back in the day, it was survival of the species to procreate with many partners, and spread your seed. Continue the population. Nowadays, it's not necessary. Sex is no longer about procreation with as many partners as you can.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Daisy2714 said:


> This is not a black and white issue. Personally, I have always been more comfortable in relationships with men than with women. I do not understand most women. I am not one that enjoys shopping. I don't see the point in gossip and I've never understood the dynamics of women who are BFF's one day and stabbing each other the next.
> 
> Having said that, while I was single, I have to say that most of my friendships with men began because there was a sexual interest. Once I made it clear that my interest was purely platonic, the relationship either dissolved or developed into a friendship. As a single person, having these types of friendships is fine. Just know your boundaries.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing.
The part I highlighted is basically in line with what I think about this issue.
Like you said in the opening paragraph, it's not a simple black & white issue.
Either people lie to themselves , or most are very naive to the dynamics, but either way,I think that's where the trouble comes in.
We are all social creatures and our consciousness is connected to those around us. We perceive some parts of ourselves through the eyes of others around us.
We like validation to a point where it is necessary.
Sometimes people find themselves empty and seeking validation because they aren't being filled by their spouses, or require way too much outside validation.
That's when things get messy.
It could happen to anyone at anytime.
Balance , self respect and honesty is the key.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Not sure what to add .... me & mine has never had issues with opposite sex friends in all our 31 yrs together... we are careful the type people we hang with though... and we do most everything *as a couple*...

From the time we got together...his friends became MINE, mine became HIS....we are seen as "*one*"....that heart carved in the tree with the arrow through it.. no one penetrates...







.but this hinges on US keeping that bond strong, us feeling enwrapped‎ in each other ...and bringing everything back to each other...if an outside conversation was a little too close for comfort...being free to share it all.. .but how utterly important...that we CAN DO THIS... without one being overly sensitive, or jumping at the slightest thing making a mountain out of a molehill...how important to not allow anything to come between us. 



Daisy2714 said:


> As a married women, I still have friendships with men. Not many but there are some. Usually in the workplace. I don't think this is wrong. It's natural to develop relationships with the people in our lives. The trick is to put up boundaries to protect yourself from friendships becoming EA's. There are several ways to do this. For me, *I use radical honesty. *


 I am another  Radical Honesty woman.... with the husband (always!)... pretty forward with those outside our family also...with ME....you just know where you stand.. when talking to others...I can't help but speak in terms of US... throwing him in my stories.. this helps to hold boundaries, it speaks your devotion to your spouse. 



> *I just think it's important to know yourself well enough to know if you are vulnerable to someone and then avoid those situations that could lead somewhere dangerous. I am very aware of my vulnerabilities. I'm careful not to play tennis with the devil. If I even begin to feel attracted to someone I will avoid them.
> 
> Given the right circumstances, I don't put it past anyone to fall into an EA or even a physical affair. Not even myself. I'd like to think I wouldn't but I simply keep myself from having the opportunity.*










...Yes, "*the perfect storm*"... allowing breaches in your marriage...where another can emotionally penetrate...slippery slope there....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Here we go again... this topic has been ton a thousand times on TAM and I always enjoy it so much. 

Can it be? Friends? I think, yes.

BUT... it's a slippery slope.

When this same topic/thread came up eons ago on TAM... I did ask one of my old guy friends (we're both single) if guys and gals can be "just friends" and he said yes. And then said "But I mean, I would totally have sex with you, Jelly." 

Hehehe.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think the most important lesson I have learned on marriage boards is that adultery is always a choice. It seems obvious now, but I did not realize it before. I thought adultery just happened, like getting swept out to sea by a tsunami.

I don't really have much contact with the opposite sex. I am home all the time with my kids. I tell my dh everything I think and feel, including when I have felt attracted to another man. I usually have a kid with me when meeting with, say, a workman (we've had a lot of work done on our house), and I always copy dh on any electronic communication with men. I just like everything out in the open, I guess.

You know what is funny? Dh just seems amused when I tell him something like that. He tells me he knows my heart and does not believe I would ever cheat on him. It's comforting to be with someone who believes in you so much. It makes me trust myself more.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

You're lucky, jld. And the best part is you realize it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> You're lucky, jld. And the best part is you realize it.


Why, thank you, doubletrouble! Happy New Year!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I don't really have much contact with the opposite sex. *I am home all the time with my kids. I tell my dh everything I think and feel, including when I have felt attracted to another man. I usually have a kid with me when meeting with, say, a workman* (we've had a lot of work done on our house), and I always copy dh on any electronic communication with men.* I just like everything out in the open, I guess.*
> 
> *You know what is funny? Dh just seems amused when I tell him something like that. He tells me he knows my heart and does not believe I would ever cheat on him. It's comforting to be with someone who believes in you so much. It makes me trust myself more*.










- all you say here... it's just like US [email protected]# ...


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Steve makes it comical, but I basically agree with him and always have. 

I think it depends on how we define friendship. I have had "work friends" over the years, or females that I am friendly with. I don't pretend to ignore someone just because they are female, but we don't call each other and chat, buy each other gifts, etc.

I've known people who act like they are dating, minus the intimacy. I think that is strange.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> - all you say here... it's just like US [email protected]# ...


Lol, SA. Do you ever feel like your marriage was born under a lucky star?

Sometimes I think that even if I did everything else in life wrong, at least I married the right man!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WyshIknew said:


> Perhaps I've gone too far the other way and need to open up a little more?


There's a difference between being friendly and being _friends_. One can be cheerful and even playful with an opposite sex acquaintance or coworker without it crossing the line of an emotional attachment or discussing intimate issues. That is where I went too far to the cold distant side of the spectrum.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

southbound said:


> I've known people who act like they are dating, minus the intimacy. I think that is strange.


I used to be in a pretty big foreign language dept. at a high school, and one of the teachers would say that our supervisor was her "husband at work". We knew she was joking, but they really were very close. 

One of the other teachers was divorced from a serial adulterer, and she confided in me that she felt uncomfortable when that lady would make those comments. I didn't really get all that at the time, but after reading here, I guess I am starting to understand more where she was coming from.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah I don't like the whole "work spouse" thing, even in jest. *shrug*

I'm the ONLY spouse.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

I've always had OSF, as has my SO. I never thought twice about it until recently, when I came to TAM and was assured by many here that men only care about sex, and wouldn't even bother to talk to women otherwise.

One of my OSFs I've known for more than 30 years. We were roommates at one point, talked about everything under the sun (and still do), and have been through an awful lot together, and have never had sex.

Was he friends with me just for sex? I hardly think so. Did he ever think about having sex with me? Dunno. He never said so. 

Did I ever think about sex with him? Maybe a couple of times over our decades long friendship, but just as idle wondering, not something I'd seriously pursue. I love this guy, but as a friend. (Plus he has seriously awful taste in women, and goes for the violent narcissistic types every time. I just want to shake him.)

Just as I was a bit of a tomboy that hung out more with men, my SO mostly hung out with women, and he has many OSF. I know he's hit on lots of them in the past when lonely or between girlfriends, but I don't think that means his friendships were about getting into their pants. They were actually friends, and still are in most cases.

My experience has always been that men and women can indeed be very good friends, and it can be completely platonic -- and even if a sexual thought or two should cross the mind every now and again, it doesn't necessarily mean that the friendship is really just about wanting sex.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My W was jealous of a female friend I'd had for years. We never had sex. My friend said "We've known each other 15 years, so if we were going to have sex, it would already have happened." 

That pretty much sums up my platonic OSFs. This gal is pretty, sexy, smart -- yet we were great friends and never let sex get in there. 

I do confess to looking at her legs once when she swung them over a wooden fence (while wearing a dress; she caught me looking), while we were walking to the lake to have lunch once day. But that was sorta automatic, not lustful. Nothing was ever said about it...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think that while it is possible for men and women to be just friends, it's also very tricky - there's a whole lotta boundaries and lines that shouldn't be crossed, that don't all apply in same sex friendships.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Gomerpyle said:


> What point is there in having female friends? I don't know any females that play rugby or hockey. So it wasn't discrimination against females that led to having male friends.
> 
> Specifically implementing an "affirmative action" program in friends by seeking out females would have me associating with people that don't like the same things I do.
> 
> I'm guessing *Carribean Man* is either in modeling, dance, hairstyling or something like that. Self-explanatory.


Because I like women.

I like the fact that they are different to us men. I like the fact that they very often have a different viewpoint, a different outlook. I like the fact that they can surprise me, that they can intrigue me.

Even on a largely anonymous internet forum such as this the wonderful difference between men and women comes shining through. I can't always put my finger on the difference but nevertheless it is there.

If you only ever associate with people who do and think exactly as you do life becomes a bit monochrome don't you think?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Gomerpyle said:


> What point is there in having female friends? I don't know any females that play rugby or hockey. So it wasn't discrimination against females that led to having male friends.
> 
> Specifically implementing an "affirmative action" program in friends by seeking out females would have me associating with people that don't like the same things I do.
> 
> I'm guessing *Carribean Man* is either in modeling, dance, hairstyling or something like that. Self-explanatory.


If ALL the women YOU know are only interested in models, dancing, hairstyles, clothes, famous people, etc. then IT'S NO WONDER you don't have any women friends! Hell, I'm a woman and I wouldn't be friends with them, either!!!!! 

I like cars (classic & antique), football, architecture, old books, ice hockey, camping, canoeing, music, and I *LOVE* baseball! I have not been successful in finding guy friends to do stuff with (like car shows) because the guys I've met fall into the "Steve Harvey" mold (want to be friends in an effort to be more later) whereas if I want to be 'friends' with them, it's because I'm NOT sexually attracted to them (or they're already spoken for and I respect that), but attracted to their personality or their interests. 

BTW: I also hate that SO have the expectation that you'll become BEST FRIENDS with their best friend's wife/gf! So many times I meet these women and they're just NOT someone that I would choose to spend my free time with. Yet, the guys (because they're best buds) will be pushing the whole 'you and Sally should go do XYZ' and I'm thinking "Ugh, I don't want to...she's boring/vapid/whatever. I'd rather go do that with one of MY friends!"

Here's to better luck in 2014!



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