# A true sexless marragie



## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

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Ok, i will try to be short and will reply to the comments as needed. I have been married for 4 months now my wife is still a virgin and this is my 2nd marriage. She has never had any boyfriend or anything I am her 1st everything. I am 30 and American. She is 24 and from the Philippines. We live together in the Philippines. I am getting more sad and depressed daily. We are Christians Pentecostals. She does not view sex as wrong and dirty so there no need to go that way. She seems like a young, inexperienced, and scared woman. We were waiting till marriage. Her words are says she afraid of pain and things of that nature. STD is not the problem. She claims she has not been abused but I can not help but feel like that might be the root of the trouble no reason but my mind. We have talked almost every time it a fight she seem unable to talk about it outside of says she not ready and fears pain she get very defensive Religious is not a factor in a normal way it was part that is what let her be inexperienced but she understands from her pastor, parents ect that our religion teaches what she doing is wrong. She doesn't always reject touching and caressing it but I have to admit due this I having been failing and pushing her away. I’m not meaning to but it happening I have taken notice and started to fix it and work with it her action are no reason for my poor ones but I pushed her away much so she has reasons to be upset. I have started shutting myself off, crying much, and being cold mostly. Also yelling and being rude I have became isolated and alone not being there for her and being caring/supportive like a husband should be. Since I noticed my problems I have fixed them but that is still there. Remember we are newly weds and she does not understand that those prior actions was based on this problem. If the mood changes to where you know sex is next then her attitude changes instantly no matter what was going on to upset and fear.
Cuddling like normal couples would have after sex is common normal dressed but there is sometimes without being dressed, kissing never in any intimate way.
She likes to receive oral sex to a point that she has asked for it at times. I have to take her hand and have her touch me she starting get more comfortable with giving oral sex. She is working on the oral she has improved and does try on that. That is one of the thing I must say she grew in. She still has a way to go but it was a bad thought and gross thing at 1st. Now she does tries and improving much with it. Due to the attitude which I have talked of earlier I had myself over this problem I have push her away even that. Using these as tactics as most people would think or say does not work setting the mood and so on. I understand things of that nature. She locks up and closes her legs no matter how it is handled. Nothing goes in her no fingers no penetration ever. Counseling is a no due to her pride and ashamed. Size there is fear she has no understanding of sex. I am 1foot taller than her. Most men here have small penis compared to Americans her words and her peers. I am 6 inches which honestly is not big but to a woman that is 5 foot and from the Philippines she acts like it is giant. I tried to show her porn to show that mine is not that big and she said you don’t need a password to get porn on the internet 
I am not happy now due to it but that means nothing I am looking to solve or fix not run. 
There is no divorce or annulment here in Philippines. That is not an option anyways i am not willing leave my wife because it gets hard what the meaning of vows. I love her with her failures and will stand by her. Still where do I go from here it just gets harder and worst? While I give her reasons to be upset or mad as time passes.
What can I do, so that I can be rid of the accumulated resentment she is obviously feeling? I also would like to be able to empathize and understand her more where she coming from and so on this is effecting everyone around us (her family/friends). I want to be a better husband to her. I am somewhat at a lost at where to start now. I feel lost and confused. I want to be romantic but it is hard for me due to her resentment and my confusion not knowing where to start.

******This post has been edited so if you read all this you can skip to page 3 and you have received all the content.******


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Your wife of 4 months is still a virgin?

She doesn't want sex?

Something is definitely wrong here.

Was she abused as a child?

Since you are her first, she should want to have sex with you, and all the time. To grow together with you, learn sexual techniques, have fun, etc.

If she knows she is your second wife and marriage, maybe that turns her off?

Maybe she is worried about a STD?

I would have a serious chat with her and go to marriage counseling and find out why she doesn't want to lose her virginity to you, her husband. That's a major red flag!!!

If all it is, she is very LD, and she isn't willing to change, you have to make the decision on that one.

Did you know she was a virgin and LD to begin with?

What's her past like?


More info please.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Waiting till marriage. I am a Christan now i was not in the past. Her words are says she afraid of pain and things of that nature. STD is not the problem.She claims she has not been abused but i can not help but feel like that might be the root of the troble no reason but my mind . We have talked almost everytime it a fight she seem unable to talk about it outside of says she not ready and fears pain. Now so much time has past i have had a bad attitude often due to this so she starting to have reasons.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

at this exact time she is sleep at her parnets becasue we can not get along


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Do you share any sort of physical contact - holding hands, sitting close on the couch, massages, hugging, kissing?


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

short of, she likes to receive oral sex to a ponit that she has asked for it at times. i have to take her hand and have her touch me she getting more comfortable with giving oral sex. using these as tactics as most people would think does not work setting the mood and so on. i understand things of that nature. she locks up and closes her legs no matter how it is handled


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

cuddling like normal couples would have after sex is common normal dressed but ther is sometimes without being dressed, kissing never in any intimate way


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

I should have stated she has never had any boyfriend or anything i am her 1st everything i am 30 she is 24


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I think marriage counseling is in order. 

My wife was still a virgin when I married her. We decided that birth control would be used and we waited 6 months just to be sure. Then the first time we had sex, I was in her, it hurt her somewhat, so I didn't move. I pulled out, that's it the first time. The second time, it hurt her again, not as bad, I didn't move, and pulled out. The third time I went all the way in her, the pain was still there, but not as bad as before. I waited, pulled out. After that, we started having sex and she doesn't experience pain anymore. 

Buy her a dildo and when she gets used to it, there you go. Personal and private for her.

Always give her oral to orgasm first and use a small vibrator at the same time. She should orgasm and be very lubricated, so entry for you should be a real problem.

You're both young and in your prime. Sex should be all the time and there are no kids or medical conditions.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

You mentioned she is afraid it will hurt. Do you know why she feels this way? Is she small compared to you? 
It sounds as if you are getting some intimacy if there is oral. Have you used your fingers on her to stimulate her? That may be not her non threatening and pleasurable way to "penetrate" her.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Maybe there was abuse in her past?

Why she associates pain with PIV when she's never had it and is still a virgin, is odd...........


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

nothing goes in no fingers no penetrate ever. she is from the Philippines sex is not like there in the usa a simply way to view it is like the veiw in the 50's about sex there in the usa. counseling is a no due to her pride and ashamed. like i said the best way to view sex here is like the 50's in the usa. Size there is fear she has no understanding of sex. I am 1foot taller than her. most men here have small penis compared to Americans. i am 6 inches which honestly is not big but to a woman that is 5 foot and fro m teh philippines she acts like it giant. i tried to show her porn to show that mine is not that big and she said you dotn need a password to get porn on the internet


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I am about 6 ft 2 at 230 lbs and my wifee is 5 ft 7 at about 215 lbs and losing weight. I am just about 7 inches and that's not huge and my wife has no issues with me. I would say 8 - 9 inches or longer is pushing it.

If she isn't willing to change and work with you on this, would you be happy in this near sexless situation year after year?


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

i am not happy now due to it but that means nothing i am looking to slove or fix not run


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

One thing I've learned in life is us men like to fix and solve things. This does not work with the ladies and they don't work that way. They will change and address their issues when they are ready, no matter how it may take.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

tupactip said:


> nothing goes in no fingers no penetrate ever. she is from the Philippines sex is not like there in the usa a simply way to view it is like the veiw in the 50's about sex there in the usa. counseling is a no due to her pride and ashamed. like i said the best way to view sex here is like the 50's in the usa. Size there is fear she has no understanding of sex. I am 1foot taller than her. most men here have small penis compared to Americans. i am 6 inches which honestly is not big but to a woman that is 5 foot and fro m teh philippines she acts like it giant. i tried to show her porn to show that mine is not that big and she said you dotn need a password to get porn on the internet


Asian men don't necessarily have small penises. You can find small, medium and large penises among Asians. This I know from personal experience. 

Yours isn't a giant size. It's pretty average. I think it's not the size of your penis that's the issue here. Even if the Philippines has a more conservative take on sexuality, people there obviously have sex after they get married (and most likely before if they're in Metro Manila or a bigger city, not the provinces). Filipinos reproduce quite often being good Catholics and all.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

yes you are right^^ Christan here so it a little different but yes you are very right i was being general and tring to understand her in province btw


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

She was willing to marry you, she is willing to receive oral from you but not willing to satisfy you? My advice is simple. Get the marriage anulled while you're still can. It is obvious she's does not love and honor you. If she was willing to get married to you, then she must have understood that sex is an important part of any serious marriage. Sorry for my pessimism, I hope optimist people would chime in to counter my pessimism.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

tupactip said:


> short of, she likes to receive oral sex to a ponit that she has asked for it at times. i have to take her hand and have her touch me she getting more comfortable with giving oral sex. using these as tactics as most people would think does not work setting the mood and so on. i understand things of that nature. she locks up and closes her legs no matter how it is handled


:scratchhead:


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> She was willing to marry you, she is willing to receive oral from you but not willing to satisfy you? My advice is simple. Get the marriage anulled while you're still can. It is obvious she's does not love and honor you. If she was willing to get married to you, then she must have understood that sex is an important part of any serious marriage. Sorry for my pessimism, I hope optimist people would chime in to counter my pessimism.


there is no divorce or annulment here in Philippines. That is not an option i am not willing leave my wife because it gets hard what the meaning of vows.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She sounds like a young, inexperienced, religious, scared woman. 

How do you approach intercourse with her? Do you touch her? Caress her? Does she reject even that?


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

tupactip said:


> there is no divorce or annulment here in Philippines. That is not an option i am not leave my wife because it gets hard what the meaning of vows.


That is admirable of you. It's always better to try to fix the problem before attempting a termination.

But just so you know, the Catholic Church is not adverse to annulment of marriage if they found that it fulfills the conditions for annulment to be granted. I presume that you're a Catholic since you're married to a Filipina. If I am wrong my apologies.

Catholic Marriage and annulments :: Catholic News Agency

".. In the eyes of the Church, divorce ends the various civil, financial, and legal bonds previously contracted between spouses, but not the spiritual bonds.
For this reason, the Catholic Church investigates, through the annulment process, whether an actual marriage, as defined by the Church, came into being. In carrying out this investigation, the Church examines various facts presented to the marriage tribunal by those seeking the annulment and their witnesses. If the Church then determines that no genuine marriage came into being, these individuals are free to marry someone else if that person is also free to marry.."

I believe non-consummation of the marriage (where the couple does not have sex) is grounds enough for an annulment. Contact the highest Catholic hierarchy near you.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> She sounds like a young, inexperienced, religious, scared woman.
> 
> How do you approach intercourse with her? Do you touch her? Caress her? Does she reject even that?


i think you are right religious is not a factor in a normal way it was part that let her be inexperienced but she understands from her pastor, parents ect that her religion teaches what she doing is wrong. She doesn't always reject touching and caress but i have to admit due this i having been failing and pushing her away im not meaning but it happening i have taken notice and strated to fix that but i pushed her away much so she still upset there. if the mood changes to where u know sex is next then her attitude changes instantly


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> She sounds like a young, inexperienced, religious, scared woman.
> 
> How do you approach intercourse with her? Do you touch her? Caress her? Does she reject even that?


sitll where do i go from here it just gets hard and worst . while i give her reasons to be upset or mad as time passes


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> That is admirable of you. It's always better to try to fix the problem before attempting a termination.
> 
> But just so you know, the Catholic Church is not adverse to annulment of marriage if they found that it fulfills the conditions for annulment to be granted. I presume that you're a Catholic since you're married to a Filipina. If I am wrong my apologies.
> 
> ...


i was talking about the law of the land i still dotn want it anyway no we are not catholic we are Christians Pentecostals. She does not view sex as wrong and dirty so there no need to go that way


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I think it's not the size of your penis that's the issue here.


Incorrect, the fear still is real especially amongst the conservative/religious ones in Asia due to the stereotype. When I was younger I still remember trying to hook up my not-so-confident mates up with filipinas and the FOB (fresh off boat) filipinas in particular didn't even consider them.



> She doesn't always reject touching and caress but i have to admit due this i having been failing and pushing her away im not meaning but it happening i have taken notice and strated to fix that but i pushed her away much so she still upset there. if the mood changes to where u know sex is next then her attitude changes instantly... while i give her reasons to be upset or mad as time passes


Need to warm her up before the plow mate, looks like this is something to remedy, otherwise sex is still going to be out of the question. How do you give her reasons to be mad or upset with you btw? Be specific


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Incorrect, the fear still is real especially amongst the conservative/religious ones in Asia due to the stereotype. When I was younger I still remember trying to hook up my not-so-confident mates up with filipinas and the FOB (fresh off boat) filipinas in particular didn't even consider them.


This is not about me being incorrect. It's what the OP said in his posts. He can't even get his fingers near there because she closes her legs up.


tupactip said:


> nothing goes in no fingers no penetrate ever.


 According to him he's not even allowed to penetrate her with fingers, so yeah..it's not about the penis. 

I'm very familiar with Filipinas as I grew up in an area with FOBs and third and fourth generation as well.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well with closing up her legs at the fear of fingers then I guess you're right heh


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Incorrect, the fear still is real especially amongst the conservative/religious ones in Asia due to the stereotype. When I was younger I still remember trying to hook up my not-so-confident mates up with filipinas and the FOB (fresh off boat) filipinas in particular didn't even consider them.
> 
> 
> 
> Need to warm her up before the plow mate, looks like this is something to remedy, otherwise sex is still going to be out of the question. How do you give her reasons to be mad or upset with you btw? Be specific


shutting myself off crying much being cold mostly yelling and being rude . becoming isolated and alone not being there and caring/supportive like a husband should be


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

i update the op to be clearer with all the info above


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well if your wife shut herself off, crying alot, being cold and yelling and being rude, does it turn you on? I think you know your problem mate, which is a good step ahead.

You do intend to remedy this situation yes? If so, think about what you can do, so that you can be rid of the accumulated resentment your wife is obviously feeling.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

yes i totally understand my mistakes and errors now but in that way

I have started shutting myself off, crying much, and being cold mostly. Also yelling and being rude I have became isolated and alone not being there for her and being caring/supportive like a husband should be. Since I noticed my problems I have fixed them but that is still there. Remember we are newly weds and she does not understand that those prior actions was based on this problem.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> If so, think about what you can do, so that you can be rid of the accumulated resentment your wife is obviously feeling.


What can I do, so that I can be rid of the accumulated resentment she is obviously feeling? I also would like to be able to empathize and understand her more where she coming from and so on this is effecting everyone around us (her family/friends). I want to be a better husband to her. I am somewhat at a lost at where to start now. I feel lost and confused. I want to be romantic but it is hard for me due to her resentment and my confusion not knowing where to start.


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## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I am trying to remember being a virgin, and the moment I didn't care if it hurt...because passion took over.

Essentially...I remember making out until making out wasn't enough, necking and then touching, a Lot of naked exploration...under the sheets. Actually trying NOT to go all the way. 

Until eventually curiosity and need got the better of both of us.

I guess that's what I would suggest. Besides BE NICE. NOBODY wants to make out with their cute new husband or boyfriend if he's not nice.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

tupactip said:


> *What can I do, so that I can be rid of the accumulated resentment she is obviously feeling?* I also would like to be able to empathize and understand her more where she coming from and so on this is effecting everyone around us (her family/friends). I want to be a better husband to her. I am somewhat at a lost at where to start now. I feel lost and confused. I want to be romantic but it is hard for me due to her resentment and my confusion not knowing where to start.


All I can say is, "What the hell?" SHE'S resentful? She's got a LOT OF NERVE to be resentful.

SHE KNOWS it's wrong to withold sex, yet she's doing it.
SHE'S afraid to have sex, but won't work with you.
SHE needs counseling, but is TOO PRIDEFUL to go.
SHE will ask for oral and get HER NEEDS MET, but won't take care of yours.

Do *YOU* see the REAL problem here? SHE IS NOT AN ADULT! She is a spoiled, entitled, teenager. REAL ADULTS understand their problems and WORK TO RESOLVE THEM. Spoiled teenagers require that everything work to THEIR advantage and that problems just 'magically' disappear!

As long as YOU allow this to go on with NO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES (your yelling and crying are NOT negative consequences), nothing will change. WHY SHOULD IT? She gets the social advantages of being married and considered an adult WITHOUT THE RESPONSIBILITIES. 

CreekWalker makes an EXCELLENT point.....if your wife had a NORMAL sexual appetite, the point would arise where she COULDN'T stop herself and you.......she'd want sex with you more than anything....we've ALL BEEN THERE. How come she hasn't? Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH HER and short of talking to you or a counselor, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME IN THIS MARRIAGE!

Perhaps she fears the pain of sex. Perhaps she fears the pain of childbirth as a result of sex. Perhaps we could postulate for the next four months.....what's the point.

ONLY SHE KNOWS....
ONLY SHE WON'T TELL.....
SO YOU WILL SIT AND WAIT.....
four more months.......
four more years......
four more decades..........
telling yourself that God approves because you're keeping your vows! What about *HER* vows?

.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> All I can say is, "What the hell?" SHE'S resentful? She's got a LOT OF NERVE to be resentful.
> 
> SHE KNOWS it's wrong to withold sex, yet she's doing it.
> SHE'S afraid to have sex, but won't work with you.
> ...


This is the attitude i had till very recently. Which is not good for this. This is what i was trying to express when i said i was wrong. she is working on the oral she has improved and does try on that. that is one of the thing i must say she went form 0 to something on. she still has a way to go but it was a bad thought gross thing at 1st. Now she does tries and improving much. due to the attitude you have talked of above which i had myself i have push away even that.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

A *REAL* consequence would be to pack up all her clothes, makeup, toiletries, etc. and drive them over to her parents house.

Tell her she WILL live with her parents UNTIL SUCH TIME AS SHE decides to deal with her problems LIKE AN ADULT and get into counseling. 

You're allowing HER PRIDE to dictate unhealthy behaviors (her digging her heels in and refusing to get help, you crying and trying to 'nice' her into growing up) in your marriage. Giving into her PRIDE is setting a bad precedent in your relationship.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Eh, Mrs. SGW, I was thinking along the way of "what about her vows?" and "bad precedent" as you stated above, but couldn't quite find the correct words to express them. Your eloquence is admirable, as always.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Was this an arranged marriage ? How long did you & she court each other? How is the physical attraction between the 2 of you?

What a very difficult situation... I can understand your frustration..

If she refuses to allow you to touch her, get her warmed up sexually...and refuses to talk to someone due to pride/ embarrassment, she has tied your hands...knowing withholding intercourse is against her beliefs... is also telling....she has an "unworkable spirit" that will keep you feeling angry with her.... 

It WILL hurt like hell -this can be very frightening for a young virgin ..but yet she should be getting frustrated herself with this situation..and not trying to push it under the rug....dismissing you...she needs to be willing to allow you to warm her up... work a little every night with her husband she vowed commitment to.

My husband had troubles "getting it in" but I always always always wanted touched there...we worked through that ...as it should be...together....I was even more frustrated over him - when we were having troubles.

The way she is Re-acting, I too would wonder if she was sexually abused in some way....or she has heard so many horror stories she has built it up in your mind... was her father an abusive men or she has seen male relatives be this way? Possibly if you are being very angry over sex, the FEAR is rising in her that you may force yourself...and she shuts down, clamps her legs.

The fact she Invites oral -she obviously enjoys pleasure ...I am assuming she has orgasms when you give oral? (you didn't say).

What about a visit to the Doctor to check her down there, see what is going on?

I had a very rigid hymen when we got married ...surgery was going to be scheduled even (this was 3 months after we married)....I made the appointment thinking "what the hell is wrong with me...this is ridiculous!!".... I was the one loosing patience, he was very loving throughout all...

Crazily.....I was found pregnant..... A blessing looking back...as I probably would have canceled the "hymenectomy"...& kept working at it... It took us another 5 months for him to fully penetrate me ... but we took it very slow, he is a very gentle lover...he never showed anger , resentment, frustration at all ...but again, I was not closing my legs either... but very willing to keep trying. 

Ya know what...every "mountain" in a marriage...and this is a big one... if you want resolution...starts with effective communication... agreeing ...
....

*1.* What course of action to take -given the hardship at hand......
*2*. Both bringing an attitude of teamwork...working together to resolve...
*3.* Both having patience with each other... but again....so long as one is not shutting the other down...putting up a wall... as this renders anger and a growing resentment in the shut down spouse...

If she continues to show this sort of immaturity... while you have shown patience & love (start here...with more effective understanding communication)....If this still gets you nowhere...you may have to do a separation, like SGW suggested and send her home to her parents... as this is a HUGE deal, it can't be swept under the rug.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

whoa... Mrs. SGW and Mrs. SA comes here together!

Mr. OP, please listen to these two ladies, they're giving us real-life women's point of view.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

:scratchhead:

The man-up approach is all well and good but have you guys also acknowledged the fact that OP too has his own part to play in terms of her resentment? Women don't just close up for no reason.

Kicking her out without a suitable moral high ground (which OP doesn't possess) may not be beneficial for their marriage.


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## KKanon (Dec 11, 2012)

Look up vaginismus on google.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Was this an arranged marriage ? How long did you & she court each other? How is the physical attraction between the 2 of you?
> 
> What a very difficult situation... I can understand your frustration..
> 
> ...


Not an arranged marriage. How long did you & she court each other? 3 year plus How is the physical attraction between the 2 of you? Very much (both ways I am sure). She has heard many horror stories and she has built it up in her mind. I know of 2 stories personally. I have not seen abusive men in her life I would guess if something of that nature did happen it was isolated and not from a man like father or brother. I am not very angry over sex directly it is the affect day to day. Feeling not loved and disrespected and so on. She does have a fear that I will force but not based on any reason. Most not be forgotten that the problem was always there and my attitude is somewhat new. Yes, she has orgasms in oral which is new to her. Due to this in my personal belave she is stressed which she says she doesn’t understand how she feels and heart races and soon on she says she does feel well anyways she said she never been to a doctor and will not go. Too me “I was not closing my legs either... but very willing to keep trying.” I would be able to easily understand and be like your husband. 
She is at her parents now anyways because she claims she doesn’t feel well and we dont get along.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

SimplyAmorous;2302674
If she refuses to allow you to touch her said:


> She does not refuse to allow me to touch her. it is just nothing goes in her no fingers no penetration ever. I can rub or just hold each and so on. Like i said prior that was before I start ed acting poorly.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

and for everyone out there i truly think there is much hope. I need to handle myself better and be more understanding to her. yes she is a child in many ways and that is due to the fact till we got together she has not had any life outside of her parents. that is why i am here i think i can talk with others ad they share insight of how she feels and how i can understand her more and i can also improve myself


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> The man-up approach is all well and good but have you guys also acknowledged the fact that OP too has his own part to play in terms of her resentment? Women don't just close up for no reason.
> 
> Kicking her out without a suitable moral high ground (which OP doesn't possess) may not be beneficial for their marriage.


That was what i was feeling.......


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

She hasn't "closed up".....she's never OPENED UP.

If her problem is medical, only a doctor's treatment and advice is going to help.

If her problem is mental, only a therapist's treatment and advice is going to help.

If her problem is emotional, only a therapist's and her husband's treatment and advice is going to help. 

HOWEVER, wife is UNWILLING to see anyone professional about her problem(s)....because of her PRIDE.

As far as moral high ground, WIFE ACKNOWLEDGES she's not doing her part as commanded by her religion. Her religious leader and her parents have made this clear to her.

HOWEVER, HER PRIDE is standing in the way. How much MORE moral ground does her husband need?

Perhaps she should familiarize herself with Proverbs 16:18....Pride goes before a fall.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

tupactip, kumusta ka pare. Ang asaw ko ay Filipina as well. This is not normal at all. You cannot have a wife who will not consummate the marriage. This is grounds for annulment in most countries including the PI. She has to decide whether she loves you enough to overcome whatever demons are afflicting her. If was prior abuse or rape, she needs to see a therapist about this and work through it. You were not the person who abused her. And I do highly suspect abuse or rape of some kind.

Are you a Christian as well? Sorry if it's an obvious question, I skipped to page three as requested by your first post.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Will she even let you put a pinky finger in her vagina? 

I come from a religion where there was no premarital sex. It was also standard, though, to go to a premarital exam to get birth control and make sure all was well. I know several woman, including a sibling, that were given dialators for their vaginas. Working from a small size up to larger. If there was a hymen they were able to deal with it at that time. 

Also, can you drink in this religion / culture? Alcohol can help.

I cant believe she wont even let you penetrate with fingers when you are doing oral. 

Lord, how frustrating. You are a saint for putting up with this.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

sandc said:


> Are you a Christian as well? Sorry if it's an obvious question, I skipped to page three as requested by your first post.


In one of the earlier pages of this thread, he said they're both Christian Pentecostal.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It sounds like your wife's fear of pain has morphed into a phobia.

has she had a GYN appointment? That includes penetration of speculum, fingers and a swab. There is also a procedure where the GYN can insert a probe and test the muscle contractions, I forget what it's called but in some women this is an involuntary fear based response, if this is what happens to her during a GYN exam, and not all GYN's are decently prepared nor decent people, then she has had some traumatic experience.

Find a GYN, a female GYN and make an appointment. Go with your wife and explain together what is happening.

As with all fears, the longer they are allowed to fester, the stronger they get. Explain this to your wife, that her fear of pain has taken over rational thought and it must stop. Tell her this will be happening and you, as her husband who loves her and wants what is best for her, will no longer allow her fear to control your marriage. Be gentle, be loving, but be firm.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> It sounds like your wife's fear of pain has morphed into a phobia.
> 
> has she had a GYN appointment? That includes penetration of speculum, fingers and a swab. There is also a procedure where the GYN can insert a probe and test the muscle contractions, I forget what it's called but in some women this is an involuntary fear based response, if this is what happens to her during a GYN exam, and not all GYN's are decently prepared nor decent people, then she has had some traumatic experience.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and will take you words to heart


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

If the pain were that bad nobody would have sex in the first place. Perhaps point out how many women in the world are having sex. 

Now childbirth - there's something to be scared of. People still make it through - and go on to have other children no less!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

KKanon said:


> Look up vaginismus on google.


Thats it!


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> Maybe there was abuse in her past?
> 
> Why she associates pain with PIV when she's never had it and is still a virgin, is odd...........


Ummm it's not odd. Girls talk! They share experiences, good and bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> She hasn't "closed up".....she's never OPENED UP.
> 
> If her problem is medical, only a doctor's treatment and advice is going to help.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_

Oh, wow.

You better hope it's not sexual abuse if you're giving that advice.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

tupactip,

I don't think it's hopeless. I think there are several things still to be tried to get to the bottom of this and find a solution. You also sound like a gentle man, a good and loving husband, in just a difficult situation -- but, looking for answers (which, many people don't, IMHO.) You haven't mentioned much about how she is handling this, but there are some positive signs, IMHO.

You said:



> She seems like a young, inexperienced, and scared woman. We were waiting till marriage. Her words are says she afraid of pain and things of that nature.


I think your best chance is to take her at her word, and, understand if she truly is scared, and she has all these people around her helping her understand that she is "wrong", this must feel horrible to her just thinking about it. I don't know what your relationship is like -- how open and trusting you are to each other emotionally -- but the more supportive and empathetic with her concerns and fears right now, I think you are more likely to get through this together.

I sympathize with you. Even at my relatively old age, it hurts to be rejected -- over and over. But, I think it is a good sign she seems to not be cut of from her sexuality -- inviting you to perform oral sex is a wonderful invitation to receive! But, still, I can understand your disappointment, and your struggles, and how it affects your behavior. Been in my version of that hell before.

So, taking her at her word, what can you do?

1) It would be good if you can talk about what is happening. If you are behaving badly towards her or seem sad or mad to her, then maybe talk about that. Even apologize -- if that's not how you think you should be treating her, and let her know that you want to be supportive, and not push her to do something that hurts or scares her so much, but that you so much want to experience all of life, including all of the sexual joys, with her, your wife -- if that's how you feel.

2) Investigate thoroughly the physical/gynecological factors. If you can get her to see a gynocologist, that would be best. But, I would think any MD would be able to diagnose some fairly straightforward issues she might have. 

I'm not an expert, but I just did some searching. Here are some things you and/or her might want to investigate.

Is her hymen intact? [LET ME RE-ITERATE THERE IS NO NEED TO PROVIDE ME OR ANYONE AN ANSWER HERE! These are just questions that may lead you and/or her to answers.]

Is it of the more closed and less open variety? (Ref:
Hymen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Consider any questions that follow as rhetorical, if you prefer. I don't mean to be asking about her business that should be just between you and her, or her and herself, or her and her doctor, etc.


Imperforate Hymen
Acquired Labial Adhesions
Medscape: Medscape Access
Medscape: Medscape Access

Does she use tampons during her period? If not, then that seems consistent with there being a complication with her hymen.

Here's someone story about having an imperforate (or micropeforate) hymen, and it seems to have ended well:

It Happened To Me: I Had An Imperforate Hymen | xoJane



2) Try to understand her fears and worries. Try to understand what she might be going through, when you finally do have intercourse. She should try to understand what to expect too. Maybe these links will help:

From OW! to WOW! Demystifying Painful Intercourse | Scarleteen

One Bloody Mess: Myths & Realities of Bleeding with First Intercourse | Scarleteen

Scarleteen | Sex Education For The Real World​
Vaginismus, mentioned by others, seems like a real possibility too, and it sounds like it can be worsened or brought on by fear among other things.

There are probably many other physical things it could be, too. This lists some:

Female Pain During Sexual Intercourse: Causes & Treatments


2) I'd agree past abuse might be an issue. Even if she denies it ever happened.

Or maybe she is afraid of GETTING pregnant, because of what she has heard about child birth. 

Or, maybe she has known someone who had a bad experience her first time, or knows someone who was abused.

Or, maybe she has this fear for absolutely no reason anyone will ever be able to discern. (There are all kinds of phobias in the world. I bet this one would even have a name.)

Or, maybe she is simply scared.


IMHO, it does not seem like she is just trying to mess with your mind, or consciously or unconsciously trying to manipulate you or punish you. (You are in a much better position to detect that than any of us here, assuming you're aware that even the nicest people in the world can do that sort of thing.)

Find a way to address her fears. She said she is afraid of pain. Help her take action to get to the source of those fears. You know, my wife is 50 years old, and at times is very sad that she has missed out on the last 10 years of her life as a sexual being. Most people, I think, if they knew what they were missing out on -- or about to miss out on for a period of years -- would try to find the courage to dig into their problems and find a solution.

Does she seem willing to work towards finding why it hurts, or why she might think it will hurt?

Is she worried mostly about the "first time" -- losing her virginity, breaking her hymen?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> ....because of her PRIDE.





> Perhaps she should familiarize herself with Proverbs 16:18....Pride goes before a fall.



tupactip,

FWIW, I don't find this sort of condemnation helpful. If you or your wife are concerned about that verse, consider that there are multiple intrepretations, including this one, which doesn't sound like your wife at all to me.


Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
18, 19. (Compare Pr 15:33). Haughtiness and pride imply self-confidence which produces carelessness, and hence a fall—literally, "sliding."​
I do not see how anyone can claim to know WHAT is behind your wife not getting help yet. For someone to claim it is PRIDE, let alone so confidently makes such claims, well, I tend to think it tells me more about the person making the claim than anyone else.

IMHO, what keeps most people stuck -- in anything -- most often is fear. But, who knows?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> If the pain were that bad nobody would have sex in the first place. Perhaps point out how many women in the world are having sex.


Many women don't have sex because of pain. I'll leave it up to them to say how bad it is.

Female Pain During Sexual Intercourse: Causes & Treatments


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Genophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> If the pain were that bad nobody would have sex in the first place. Perhaps point out how many women in the world are having sex.


Many women don't have sex because of pain. My wife, at times, has seemed truly affected by it.

I'll leave it up to those who have experienced it to say how bad it is.

Female Pain During Sexual Intercourse: Causes & Treatments


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> Genophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ok, I look at Symptoms.

Symptoms of genophobia can be feeling of panic, terror, and dread. Other symptoms are increased speed of heartbeat, shortness of breath, trembling, anxiety, sweating, and avoidance of others.

Every single one of these she has She been talking about she doesnt understand all these symptoms.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> tupactip,
> 
> FWIW, I don't find this sort of condemnation helpful. If you or your wife are concerned about that verse, consider that there are multiple intrepretations, including this one, which doesn't sound like your wife at all to me.
> 
> ...


I agree with you that it is not helpful but I was the one that stated she is prideful to get help for us or herself. She is not confused at what the bible teaches and that she wrong. She know right from wrong. Just as a person that has any problem we all fall short of the glory of God. Attacking her with the bible is not helpful. She is not at that stage in her life or relationship with God for that to be an issue in an usefull way. That is just going to be attacking her saying to as i wish god says you should. Jesus teches with understanding and love not with hate and force . I am not tring to preach here not the time or place. But for many reasons that is not helpful but i am the one that stated she is prideful.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Too all that say physical things and so on. No one knows that at all nothing ever been there not a tampon or anything. So vaginismus or things of that nature are not a know factor. For all that I, she or anyone else knows it might like a hotdog in a hallway or given birth.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tupactip said:


> Too all that say physical things and so on. No one knows that at all nothing ever been there not a tampon or anything. So vaginismus or things of that nature are not a know factor. For all that I, she or anyone else knows it might like a hotdog in a hallway or given birth.


Wait, so she has never ever had a GYN exam? How is that possible? Get her to a GYN immediately! And don't try to have sex with her until she has see a GYN or you will trigger vaginismus.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Remember that they are in a developing country, I don't think they have medicare over there, or do they?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh yeah... Pentecostal missionaries.... Time for a trip to a metropolis.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Wait, so she has never ever had a GYN exam? How is that possible? Get her to a GYN immediately! And don't try to have sex with her until she has see a GYN or you will trigger vaginismus.


Gyn exams aren't routine in many countries. I've lived overseas and it's not part of the standard preventative care in many places for women to get breast exams, pap smears, mammograms, etc.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Remember that they are in a developing country, I don't think they have medicare over there, or do they?


The Philippines has medical care with many doctors and nurses trained in the US and elsewhere, but for certain things the OP and his wife will have to get to place like Metro Manila. I'm not sure where the OP is, but if he's in the provinces, he may not have access to the expertise the wife needs.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> The Philippines has medical care with many doctors and nurses trained in the US and elsewhere, but for certain things the OP and his wife will have to get to place like Metro Manila. I'm not sure where the OP is, but if he's in the provinces, he may not have access to the expertise the wife needs.


You are right, we are outside of cebu city about 20 km. She never been to any doctor for any reason and doesn't want to go. In her case and life that is very understandable. That different thing altogether. It is best to gudie away from doctors of any tyoe becasue that is simply not happening. It not even close to an option.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

BIG BIG thanks for the help of all you guys. Its doing wonders for me pls keep it coming. All of you have encouraged in every way from be able to empathize and understand her effecting. I am to being a much better husband to her. Not as lost and confused. I still want to be more romantic and it is hard for me due to her resentment and my confusion not knowing where to start.

To watch what going on now is funny it a twisted way i show her nothing but love and try to empathize. While she is unset and fighting. I am totally clam and together (by the grace of god and the help i have got here). Last night she claimed she wanted to not stay at her parents but very quickly moved into an attitude that was clear to set up a situation that would honer her leave in mad rage. I didn't let her get that honor but I did offer and take her to her parents while at the same time being loving caring and somewhat understanding. I was clear her actions is wrong and no ok but not in a rude or hateful way. I definitely "man upped". I also for the 1st time let her know that i will not allow this to remain forever let her know that in time i will go. this was handled ion a way that was clear it was true and had meaning no yelling, hate, cring or so on. She was mad and upset and i was clam telling her this is unacceptable. I will walk you to your parnets house since it is getting late. I said i love you and bye. she was not able to talk as i walk away.

Her anger was started by tring to talk about can be feeling of panic, terror, and dread. Other symptoms are increased speed of heartbeat, shortness of breath, trembling, anxiety, sweating, and avoidance of others.

Every single one of these she has She been talking about she doesnt understand all these symptoms. This is why she says she is sick and so on. these are ALL the signs of Genophobia Fear of sex. Just by tring to talk in an very reasonable way and at a reasonable time. The entire day was good til that point like warming her up so we can her a adult talk with her going into a mad rage.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow, very good update! Still complicated though.. Getting someone through a phobia takes some skills in conditioning and shaping behavior as well as skills in teaching relaxation techinigues. You can find information on the web on all these things. But maybe you could Skype with a therapist? This really isn't something to try to tackle on your own...

I loved you "man upped" reference! Just adorable!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Don't exclude the possibility that she also has some physical issue that has caused her pain with any sort of past penetration attempt with you, or on her own. If that has led to her phobia, it absolutely must be addressed well.

Is she aware that many in this world have suffered with these fears, and many have, in time and with the right resources, gone on to find solutions?

Does she speak English well?
What about Tagalog?

What types if healthcare providers does she have access to? Doctors, nurses? Male? Female?

Are you a missionary?

Do you have plans where she would ever visit USA or a major city in her home country?

Wishing you and her the best.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Wow, very good update! Still complicated though.. Getting someone through a phobia takes some skills in conditioning and shaping behavior as well as skills in teaching relaxation techinigues. You can find information on the web on all these things. But maybe you could Skype with a therapist? This really isn't something to try to tackle on your own...
> 
> I loved you "man upped" reference! Just adorable!


The man up reference was deeper than you might think. I am a fan of lecrae he has a group named 116 (Romans 1:16). They did a project that was a movie , rap cd, and bible study about what it means to be a man according to the bible. I know it not something to tackle on my owe but i have little options.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> Don't exclude the possibility that she also has some physical issue that has caused her pain with any sort of past penetration attempt with you, or on her own. If that has led to her phobia, it absolutely must be addressed well.
> 
> Is she aware that many in this world have suffered with these fears, and many have, in time and with the right resources, gone on to find solutions?
> 
> ...


No she not aware and it hard to address these things to her . Anything from me is not got merit when it comes to this topic. He english is great. Most people here in cebu seem not to like tagalog including her they say people here speck it ruff. No visits and that would not help if we did due to herselfnot wanting help or thinking it as a big think as it truly is. We are poor here i am young and her no income from the usa. I am not a missionary in the sence that you are asking i am sure i dont have a missionary visa but i should and chould have got one. I am very deep and serious. On avg i study more in a day than most pastors would for there whole message.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear that you have little options.

In that case, she can do this work, but you must lead her to the point of conviction that this is something she has control over. If she has faith that she CAN learn to overcome this fear, and we still haven't got a medical dx to ensure it is a phobia although it sure looks like that, then she can do the relaxation techniques and slow counter conditioning desensitizing on her own...with some professional guidance perhaps via email or something...


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

She can either get the help she needs whether it is emotional of physical. Even Cebuanos have access to medical and psychological care if they want to get it. If she won't then annulment is the next step. That way neither of you have to face the stigma of divorce in the PI. Since you have not consummated the marriage it's not a divorce in God's eyes either. You cannot live as brother and sister.

Either way, pray God's will and see where He leads you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think that's a nice way of saying you're not really married yet.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Is it possible for an older woman she respects to talk to her about this?

She will not take any advice from you, of that I can assure you. You have an agenda, and her well being isn't it. 

Sex can be extremely painful for women. She likely resents this fact, perhaps even resents God for creating us this way, that we have to suffer so much at the hands of men. That even something that should be as simple as sex can be so painful and difficult. Perhaps she is angry at God......God knows *I* was....and still am. 

Perhaps she has been traumatized by stories of losing virginity and childbirth and all the things that can go wrong. 

No matter what YOU have to say about the issue, I doubt she will listen. She needs an impartial outsider to help her work through this.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Tupactip,

I am not sure what LOTL means be your agenda being different than your wife's well being, and I certainly don't want to derail this thread trying to find out.

Nevertheless, I do feel the need to say I respect your desire to help find a way to address this trouble in your marriage. You do seem to be sensitive to her feelings, including her fears, and are trying to be yourself and what she needs you to be at this time; that is a tough balancing act, if it is even possible.

You did not create this problem, and any suffering you have felt because of it would be understandable to many in this world, if not most.

I am worried that she seems actively opposed to finding a way to fix any physical issues behind this fear, let alone address the phobia. She is leaving you with very little to work with, and no reason to expect that will ever change. If that's truly how it is, then I am very sorry.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It sounds as though your wife might be suffering from genophobia (a fear of sexual intercourse). There could be many reasons for this, including rape, molestation or medical concerns. Cultural upbringing and religious teachings may also contribute to this fear. No matter what the cause, after 4 months it seems pretty unlikely that you're going to sort this out without some form of professional help.

The situation is already impacting on your relationship and will continue to do so unless the problem is resolved. IMO, you need to firmly _insist _on your wife seeking professional help. Failing which your only options are to: (a) Agree to a celibate marriage, or (b) Have your marriage annulled on the grounds of non-consummation.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

ask her to leave last night


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

wow you must have been pissed off. What happened?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> Maybe there was abuse in her past?
> 
> Why she associates pain with PIV when she's never had it and is still a virgin, is odd...........


I suspect she has not been tsught about sex in a positive manner. I'm not talking about the pastor and others telling her that not having sex is sinful. I've seen it referred to as one's marital duty - true but not romantic and not helpful for someone new to sex and seemingly trying to be better.

I'm talking about being taught that sex is a blessing and the bond that keeps people together. for instance, my pastor has been known to say "I can't live without it". that's the kind of influence she needs.

OP: since you guys appear to be observant Christians, can you get her into a congregation where sex is portrayed in a postive light? Maybe she can get with a mentoring group of older ladies who will offer good advice? I think this might be the most comfortable setting for this exchange of information to take place.

But, please do your homework and make sure you don't make things worse. You don't want to be somewhere where she's told that sex is not a big deal, you should not push, or that non PIV sex (like oral) is a perversion. Yes, there are still people out there who say it's wrong because that's what homosexuals do.

Check out a site named The Marriage Bed. it's a Christian-oriented site and there are most definitely people who share your mindset and struggles (yours being dealing with the hurt and anger) and will offer meaningful advice.

Hope this helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> The man-up approach is all well and good but have you guys also acknowledged the fact that OP too has his own part to play in terms of her resentment? Women don't just close up for no reason.
> 
> Kicking her out without a suitable moral high ground (which OP doesn't possess) may not be beneficial for their marriage.


Actually, he has plenty of moral high ground. His wife is not fulfilling her obligation to provide for his sexual need. Moreover, she is openly rejecting the rules of their shared faith. She is at emnity with the Word. Basically, she is not failing but trying to improve. She is blowing it off.

What's happening here is that they are not playing by the same rules. He is being the dutiful husband who shows respect and forgiveness, and tries to do better by his wife. She is basically saying that her Christianity takes a back seat when it becomes too Inconvenient. IOW, they are "unequally yoked" to a large extent, based on the fact that he apparently is trying hard and she is not (and let's be honest, if she isn't getting professional help due to pride she isn't trying hard at all).

Having read that she is not open to getting help, my advice has changed. If the OP has a good church, he could go to his pastor mention the ongoing difficulty. Maybe then the pastor could put together a mentoring group or perhaps even a Matthew 18 intervention. Otherwise, he can't be the selfless, doting Christian while his wife plays by a different set of rules and expect things to get better - ever. He will have to decide to play by her rules (me first) or be unhappy indefinitely.

Remember, being a Christian does not mean you have to let people mistreat you, hurt you, and take advantage of you repeatedly. In fact, anyone who does this is a bad Christian, because he or she is not leading a life that draws others in. It would be far better for him to quietly (and respectfully) tell her that he obviously is wrong for her (and thus her for him) so they shall no longer live as husband and wife..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

DTO said:


> Actually, he has plenty of moral high ground. His wife is not fulfilling her obligation to provide for his sexual need. Moreover, she is openly rejecting the rules of their shared faith. She is at emnity with the Word. Basically, she is not failing but trying to improve. She is blowing it off.
> 
> What's happening here is that they are not playing by the same rules. He is being the dutiful husband who shows respect and forgiveness, and tries to do better by his wife. She is basically saying that her Christianity takes a back seat when it becomes too Inconvenient. IOW, they are "unequally yoked" to a large extent, based on the fact that he apparently is trying hard and she is not (and let's be honest, if she isn't getting professional help due to pride she isn't trying hard at all).
> 
> ...


:iagree::smthumbup: Amein sir! I am not a Christian but even I agree with this.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> wow you must have been pissed off. What happened?


I'm not mad per say just words and all others things have failed i done


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

DTO said:


> Actually, he has plenty of moral high ground. His wife is not fulfilling her obligation to provide for his sexual need. Moreover, she is openly rejecting the rules of their shared faith. She is at emnity with the Word. Basically, she is not failing but trying to improve. She is blowing it off.
> 
> What's happening here is that they are not playing by the same rules. He is being the dutiful husband who shows respect and forgiveness, and tries to do better by his wife. She is basically saying that her Christianity takes a back seat when it becomes too Inconvenient. IOW, they are "unequally yoked" to a large extent, based on the fact that he apparently is trying hard and she is not (and let's be honest, if she isn't getting professional help due to pride she isn't trying hard at all).
> 
> ...


i hate to think you are right...


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I was really hoping for a happy update! So sorry things haven't gotten better.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Tupactip--

You have my life 20 years ago. My wife was a virgin at 25. She never had an intimate relationship. 

It wasn't because of religion, wanting to save herself, or a fear of disease. She just had no interest. 20 years later, she still doesn't.

Sex has ALWAYS been painful for her.

She has really tried over the years and I've been understanding. The past 3 years have been bad for her because I became more aggressive with sex. 

I recently stopped all sex with her and after all these years, our marriage may be over. 

We've spent 20 years living as roommates without any real desire. I lived this for so long hoping that my best friend would eventually enjoy sex and it never happened. I love our daughter we have together, but living in a passionless marriage was just horrible. I can't convince myself any longer that the friendship is enough.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

tupactip said:


> I'm not mad per say just words and all others things have failed i done


Whether you want to elaborate on what happened is up to you, but did you move out or did she? Where is she now and what was her reaction?


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Whether you want to elaborate on what happened is up to you, but did you move out or did she? Where is she now and what was her reaction?


she at her parents which is very close. she left then came back then left on her owe. now been gone about 2 weeks. I am becoming detached and cold. i can not say much about her we dont speack much at all.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Ok, thanks for answering. What's your next step?


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Ok, thanks for answering. What's your next step?


i dont know i still have not given up but maybe i should


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Is it possible for an older woman she respects to talk to her about this?
> 
> She will not take any advice from you, of that I can assure you. You have an agenda, and her well being isn't it.


I agree that maybe talking to an older woman might help greatly, especially if it's a married woman. 

But he "has an agenda"? I'm confused why you put a sinister spin on that. If his "agenda" is to sleep with his own spouse and finally consummate the marriage, then yes, that's his "agenda". I sense a strong aura of man-hating and projection from this statement.




> Sex can be extremely painful for women.


Sure it can be, but since she's never tried it, how would she know? And that still wouldn't explain why she won't even reciprocate with oral. 



> we have to suffer so much at the hands of men. That even something that should be as simple as sex can be so painful and difficult. Perhaps she is angry at God......God knows *I* was....and still am.


We can tell.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

So she had no previous boyfriends, doesn't want to try sex with you, and the only thing she will tolerate is you giving her oral sex. 

It's very possible you married a lesbian. Of course, it's not a certainty, but those those clues just all scream out in that direction. 



tupactip said:


> There is no divorce or annulment here in Philippines.


But since you haven't consummated your marriage, then it's possible that it's not yet an actual marriage under Philippine law. You should consult an attorney and check into that.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

feeling so sad and alone right now


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I see this as mostly a failure of husbandry. You've allowed this by failing to provide leadership.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I see this as mostly a failure of husbandry. You've allowed this by failing to provide leadership.


Explain for me so i dont repeat and how can i fix it?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

tupactip said:


> Explain for me so i dont repeat and how can i fix it?


Tupactip,

Please do not believe the person who said that had any idea what he or she is talking about! I do not see how this is could be a failure on your part!

You were the there with your wife, seeing first hand her behaviors. It seems unlikely the one who says this is a failure of husbandry has been in any sort of situation even close to the one you were in. (Correct me if I'm wrong.). 

I cannot imagine why the poster would see it as a failure of husbandry. My initial guess is he or she has has limited exposure to phobias, does not have the physical conditions and/or psychologically harmful experiences your wife has had -- and, lacks the wisdom and grace to accept the fact he or she does not understand or have sufficient knowledge.

There are many men I know and respect, and I suspect none of these could have handled the situation any better than you did. And I am certain none would say, or even think, this was a failure of husbandry.

Stay strong, and don't let anyone talk you into feeling worse about what has happened, especially anyone that has never met you or your wife, and seen her behavior, and has studied these sorts of phobias.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

As a woman I do not see this as a failure of yours. You two had a religious agreement of no sex before marriage. Only you can say in retrospect if there were signs all along that thisnwas going to happen - but certainly, like millions of other couples on the planet, you were biding your time till it was official.

There's nothing you could have done afterwards aside from rape the poor girl. You cant get sex from someone who refuses to give it. Many on this board are living that reality.

But now shes apparently decided she would.rather remain a virgin in her parents house than to become a wife and mother. Well, good luck with all that! I think shes exhibited a lot of poor behavior and I hope she lives to regret it. I hope you, on the other hand, can make up for some lost time with someone who will appreciate you. I was a virgin till 22 and couldn't freaking wait to have sex. What's up with that.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

To the original poster...it's not your fault. You cannot be blamed for your wife's strange reaction to normal sexual relations between a husband and wife. I actually think the separation is a good thing. You need to draw boundaries for acceptable behavior in a marriage.




WorkingOnMe said:


> I see this as mostly a failure of husbandry. You've allowed this by failing to provide leadership.


Say what? What does this post even mean? 

Husbandry? Husbandry has a lot to do with farming and agriculture. What does it have to do in this context?

To me it's more a failure of wifery than husbandry.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> Tupactip,
> 
> Please do not believe the person who said that had any idea what he or she is talking about! I do not see how this is could be a failure on your part!
> 
> ...


wow i needed that thanks so much you words are a blessing to me that i need much


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I just don't think he's being the leader that he's supposed to be in marriage. This is common in new husbands. Sure I could coddle him and tell him he's a saint but how does that make him turn into the leader he needs to be. These sympathetic feel good posts, inho, are harmful.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I just don't think he's being the leader that he's supposed to be in marriage. This is common in new husbands. Sure I could coddle him and tell him he's a saint but how does that make him turn into the leader he needs to be. These sympathetic feel good posts, inho, are harmful.


In that case, IMHO, providing a list of things he could do to lead his wife to a better outcome for them would be more helpful than just telling him he has failed to lead.


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## tupactip (Jun 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> In that case, IMHO, providing a list of things he could do to lead his wife to a better outcome for them would be more helpful than just telling him he has failed to lead.


that is what i asked at the start


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