# How normal is it to question?



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

How normal is it to question yourself regards continuing to R when at times your head is filled with such doubt?

Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs? The nauseousness from an off the cuff comment or a message to say "I'm gonna be late tonight"?

How big a percentage of marriages end up in divorce after the dust of R has settled?

And why? What reasons did you have to end it after trying so hard to save it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It's perfectly normal. You do eventually get over the triggers. In my case it was worth it. We're still together. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I have tried very hard to change my outlook on life and to try to "let go" of the hurt and anguish, but a recent trigger really set me a long way back.

I had not has a trigger in almost 6 months, so when this one came it really blind sided me and sent me through the roof.

But I am asking myself if this is how I want to continue to live my life?

Triggering and then worrying, simple texts to say she will be late home because of the vet or blacksmith etc, near on giving me a panic attack.

Is it worth it?

The further along we get the more I am asking myself if staying together was the wrong decision?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*In my XW's case, and in retrospect, the signals were all pretty much solidly there. But she had put up just enough of a loving front toward me; and with all of the love and respect that I was feeling from her family, more especially from her Mom, Brother, and Sister, Nephews, as well as her extended family, ~ I just never really had a solid clue, or ever entertained one, that she was even remotely "fooling around" behind my back! 

In essence, I never had the inclination to even want to question her because from what I was feeling from our relationship, I just totally had no reason to mistrust her!

So when she asked for that "trial separation" on that cold, gray, March morning and then wanted it kept secret from her family, I just thought that she was having some sort of a mental meltdown. So I didn't question it; I just gave her "the space" that she said that she required. And about a year later and into the separation, the ugly truth finally came to surface!

So please just paint me as being rather naive and shallow!*


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't know why some R successfully and some don't but I know from experience that R is a very hard road. Trust is difficult to regain. Some never get it back. 

I can only relate my personal experience. I was in R for 30 years before my husband cheated again and I divorced. I'm much happier now but that doesn't mean that divorce is the answer for everyone although it was for me. 

It can take many years to learn to deal with infidelity. And you never forget it. It's always in the back of your mind. At least that was true for me during those 30 years. 

So I'm back to what I said in the beginning. Some R successfully and some don't. You ultimately decide which you are.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Being cheated on impacts you and your views of relationships whether you stay together or not. Divorce does not necessarily end the pain in this. I think you'll still be looking over your shoulder and there will be triggers even if you are with someone new. And your new love can fall into the cheating trap like your current one.

I'm not trying to paint a dooms day scenario for you but just hope that you see that there is no easy answer. Although the triggers are tough, there are a lot of other considerations to whether you want to stay together - like if you can ever love her again and how you'll feel being apart.


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## lacey99 (Oct 18, 2013)

from what I have learned from this site- it is totally normal to question R...and triggers will have for years, just as intense as right afterwards....we are in R- I did it much for the kids at the time, but moving forward it is a better life together BUT there are days I think back or look at him and still can't believe what he did and question was I just a wimp for staying?


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## lacey99 (Oct 18, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> I have tried very hard to change my outlook on life and to try to "let go" of the hurt
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> im not sure it is letting it go vs managing it


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What is the success rate for marriages to recover from infidelity?

I think it's low to be honest.

A better question is.. how supportive is your spouse of the recovery process?

If your spouse is not working well with the recovery process, your chances are quite slim.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Its completely normal to feel this way. The *ONLY* reason I'm in R is because she busted her ass to earn her shot at R, and continues to this day. Even with that said, the road to R is extremely difficult. There will be setbacks along the way, you can be sure of that.

The most difficult thing for a BS is the forgiveness and learning to trust (even if trust will never be what it once was). A BS has to learn not to equate the affair with any unrelated argument - and that's so very difficult, especially in that first year. Because in the beginning, it seems every little thing will come back to the affair. You will trigger, no matter how remorseful and how much heavy lifting your WS does. This is normal. The WS must continue to comfort you and reassure you to help you feel safe. That is part of the heavy lifting. Thats not to say the BS does not do any heavy lifting, because the forgiveness and learning to trust portion - thats the heavy lifting a BS has to do. But its not for everyone. There's nothing wrong if a BS finally decides that R is not for them. 

I can't recall where I heard the term, but I went thru a period called the "plain of lethal flatness". Where I felt I was just going thru the motions. Yes, she was busting her ass in R and doing the heavy lifting, but the spark that I had for her was gone. This lasted about a year for me. I don't know when exactly, but it somehow came back. I have to give credit where credit is due, and with her continued transparency, and heavy lifting, couple with my monitoring (and continuing not to find anything), it somehow came back. 

That's not to say I don't trigger on occasion, because yes, I continue to trigger, albeit it very seldomly nowadays (mostly from reading stories on here). They don't affect me as much. And now every little argument doesn't lead to the affair in my mind. "They" say it takes on average 2-5 years to recover from the extreme emotional trauma of infidelity. Indeed it does, at least in my situation.

This is why I only advocate R if the WS *earns* that shot at R. No rugsweeping. R is a precious, precious gift. If the BS is the one trying to save the marriage, then the R will fail IMHO.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> Its completely normal to feel this way. The *ONLY* reason I'm in R is because she busted her ass to earn her shot at R, and continues to this day. Even with that said, the road to R is extremely difficult.
> 
> This is why I only advocate R if the WS *earns* that shot at R. No rugsweeping. R is a precious, precious gift. If the BS is the one trying to save the marriage, then the R will fail IMHO.


Exactly...

DD was 4+ years ago, at first it appeared my wife had hooked up with an old college BF and had a short lived PA. Days in, I discovered she had been serially cheating for close to 7 years. The affairs were all LT and very P. It wasn't just bad it was nasty bad.

My grown children, brother, counselor, even my FIL, all had little hope for any R... much less a clean divorce that didn't turn nasty. But here I am 4+ years down the road, still together, still in R. Easy? Dream on. 

*I'm in R is because she busted her ass to earn her shot at R... lordmayhem*

That's the point isn't it? In reality... *I didn't choose R, It was my wife's actions that made it possible.* And, not just for a few weeks or months, but years and on-going. I sat the fence for a long time. You know... Once Fooled, Twice. 

So... all forgiven, all forgotten, bliss? Seriously? Those that seriously chose R know the truth. The trust will never be complete, you will always look over your shoulder, you will trigger from time to time, you will always wonder was there more?... Welcome to life... enjoy the ride.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> How normal is it to question yourself regards continuing to R when at times your head is filled with such doubt?
> 
> Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs? The nauseousness from an off the cuff comment or a message to say "I'm gonna be late tonight"?
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this because I am right here wondering the same thing.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

The triggers were always there for me and there were times when I just wanted to throw in the towel and I eventually did.

It was usually a text about being late or "Im stopping by a friends" that sent me into a panic.

After a several months she became completely unsupportive and told me to "just get over it already" or "go buy a self-help book".

I just couldnt forget about it as easily as she did.

I believe that there is hope for many R's out there if the WS is fully supportive throughout the process.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I think you would be nuts NOT to question yourself. The impact of adultery is beyond the scope of what most people can imagine, until they are there themselves.

Even with a WS that's doing all the "right" things, it's hard to know if their efforts are genuine or fueled by self-preservation. 

Have they truly seen the light? Are they working on being a different person? Or is it just trying to save the relationship for their own, selfish purposes?

We all have a naive trust in everybody in our lives, even family. After my WHs affairs, and by talking to others, I have discovered things about my family and his that I never knew. Kinda shocked actually. My MIL dropped a bomb on me and then told me "not to tell anyone". As a result, I want NOTHING to do with his family. Talk about house of lies! 

I think one of the key things for R is *a)* the WS comes COMPLETELY CLEAN! Unfortunately, they are such expert liars, you never really even know, so *b)* the next step as a BS is to imagine the worst, and ask yourself if you can live with that. That is the tactic I tried, but a year on and the alarm bells still ring. He refuses to admit any PA, but just looking at all the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests otherwise. I'm supposed to believe that he had highly sexual EAs with women he worked with and had the opportunity to be with on his "business" trips... but didn't touch. This coming from an alcoholic, porn addict, who also frequented strip clubs. 

I think it would be foolish of me to not question any of this in light of his activities, as it would be for anyone who is a BS. 

You can no longer take anything for granted. Everyone is a suspect, and everything is suspect.

As Nancy Pelosi said, "Embrace the suck" - 'cause it does!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> How normal is it to question yourself regards continuing to R when at times your head is filled with such doubt?
> 
> Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs? The nauseousness from an off the cuff comment or a message to say "I'm gonna be late tonight"?
> 
> ...


Only you can decide if living with the anguish for how ever long it takes to "get over it" is worth it or not .... and no one can truly say if it gets better or not because everyone is different. What works for them may or may not work for you. Have you given any thought to a temporary separation to see if you can heal yourself apart from her? Other will say that hurts the process of reconciliation but I think your mental health and personal self respect is more important than the reconciliation. Sometimes it's best to get away form the "toxin" for a while. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this idea.

EDIT: You don't have to "Embrace The Suck" if you don't want to!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

For me, the question is, what was the tipping point that made him decide to dump his "friend." IT still annoys me that I had to raise the issue but his response was immediate and unequivocal, ie,he didn't want her "friendship" if that meant that I was moving on. 

In other words, would there have been a difference if I had raised the issue sooner? I know it would have been if I had raised it later as I could see that they will still talking about getting together.


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

This thread is hitting home for me right now. Only been 2 months really for me. I have spent the last hour fantasizing about catching them in the act. I literally do this at some point every day. Is this normal? It makes me feel like a child or something.

Edit- she told me recently about cheating years ago. I haven't decided on r or d. I've told her as much. We are supposed to go on a "date" in 20 minutes and i feel like a chump every day for not having left alreaady.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Differentguy said:


> This thread is hitting home for me right now. Only been 2 months really for me. * I have spent the last hour fantasizing about catching them in the act. I literally do this at some point every day. Is this normal?* It makes me feel like a child or something.
> 
> Edit- she told me recently about cheating years ago. I haven't decided on r or d. I've told her as much. We are supposed to go on a "date" in 20 minutes and i feel like a chump every day for not having left already.


DG,

Perfectly normal, your are in that conflict zone. The "idea" that you _caught them in the act_ is something very concrete and defined. You would not have to wonder, who she really is, what she really did, it would be visual fact for you. 

Had the same day-dream a thousand times.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> How normal is it to question yourself regards continuing to R when at times your head is filled with such doubt?
> 
> Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs? The nauseousness from an off the cuff comment or a message to say "I'm gonna be late tonight"?
> 
> ...


It is all opinion. Many of us believe only weak men stay. Some think it is harder to stay and work on it, but I personally see most that do it as major beta men and leaving for them was never a real possibility, they would have to be left. Simply not alpha enough to leave and risk being alone.
Some disagree, IMO most that do are just defensive about their beta decisions.
I think if you for whatever the reason feel you have got to stay then go ahead, but you get to live with it all. The triggers, mind movies, the never knowing if she is late for a good reason or if today is the day it happened again. The pedestal you had originally put her on over the other woman of the world (the reason you married her) she will never live up to it ever again.
You are settling, period.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Differentguy said:


> This thread is hitting home for me right now. Only been 2 months really for me. I have spent the last hour fantasizing about catching them in the act. I literally do this at some point every day. Is this normal? It makes me feel like a child or something.
> 
> Edit- she told me recently about cheating years ago. I haven't decided on r or d. I've told her as much. We are supposed to go on a "date" in 20 minutes and i feel like a chump every day for not having left alreaady.


Man- liberate yourself from the emotional prison she has put you in. 
She cannot open the cell door and let you go free. You have the power to free yourself, you just have to be willing to do it. 
Many prisoners are set free only to miss being on the inside, it was familiar and they are scared.
Freedom is still a better option, just not the easier option.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Man- liberate yourself from the emotional prison she has put you in.
> She cannot open the cell door and let you go free. You have the power to free yourself, you just have to be willing to do it.
> *Many prisoners are set free only to miss being on the inside, it was familiar and they are scared.*
> Freedom is still a better option, just not the easier option.


My C called it my warm fuzzy familiar blanket of Pain.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I have had my doubts also, but when ever I have Mrs. the -guy bent over my work bench or holding her down on top of the pool table those doubts seem to go away.

I'm wired different then most, but what some other guys have said...she has to *earn* her spot to stay.

If your old lady is doing the heavy lifting then this should include removing your doubt about R.

Next time your old lady is late tell her she gets a spanking for every minute she is not home on time..


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> Only you can decide if living with the anguish for how ever long it takes to "get over it" is worth it or not .... and no one can truly say if it gets better or not because everyone is different. What works for them may or may not work for you. Have you given any thought to a temporary separation to see if you can heal yourself apart from her? Other will say that hurts the process of reconciliation but I think your mental health and personal self respect is more important than the reconciliation. Sometimes it's best to get away form the "toxin" for a while. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this idea.
> 
> EDIT: You don't have to "Embrace The Suck" if you don't want to!


I don't embrace sucking anything other than ni99les 

TBH I am considering the trial separation thing, but not sure how it would work just yet?

I keep having this niggling doubt and it goes away but comes back to whisper in my ear every so often, I couldn't leave, this is my home, it is part of my remunerations package from my job, did she want to stay as at that point in time she was without work as the rider she worked for decided she was going to get stroppy over money so she ended up moving here with me, and being without work is what made all that crap possible.

I sort of feel as though I am in a bubble and at any moment I am gonna be sailing back to earth with a bump as it bursts, she tries very hard but it is "me", I am the one who is not so sure anymore, I fought my depression over this internal conflict and I feel as though I am fighting to stay but the other half is fighting for freedom.

She makes a massive effort above and beyond normal if I show signs of distress or if I am having a "quiet" couple of days, she gets really pizzy with me if we don't have sex at least every other day as this was a set boundary in our marriage, if one or the other wants sex then we oblige, any less than every other day is not acceptable!

I'm not 100% on why I am having such strong doubts now? Is it from growing stronger and healing? Or is it more a case of I am sick of being tormented by the horror that became my life?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Life is what you make of it.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Hi WM, sorry if there is information that I am not aware of, but for what I remember about your case it was a EA with a guy in another continent?

so it seems weird to me that you feel triggered when she is going to be late runing errands.

did you find something new? I ask you becuase it seems for your recent posts that the misstrust in your wife keep growing even when the factors around her EA have nothing to do with your current issues.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

manticore said:


> Hi WM, sorry if there is information that I am not aware of, but for what I remember about your case it was a EA with a guy in another continent?
> 
> so it seems weird to me that you feel triggered when she is going to be late runing errands.
> 
> did you find something new? I ask you becuase it seems for your recent posts that the misstrust in your wife keep growing even when the factors around her EA have nothing to do with your current issues.


The trouble is, I can see this probably seems silly, but, that boundary from it being a personal thought was crossed, it went from thought to written words and actual feelings and emotions.

My horrific concern is that for as long as that boundary has been crossed emotionally then stems the bigger issue of is the next one a straight off PA? Due to emotional boundary already being crossed, I am conscious of how things have panned out for others in the past, where they reconciled after an EA only for the next one to go straight to PA.

But I also question whether it is worth further investment when after 2yrs I am still having doubt?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just like any investment ther is always a risk.....
Both of you need to do the risk managment to have a healthier marriage.
Why isn't your old lady doing anything about these doubt you have?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

How long does R last?? Does it last the rest of the marriage?
At one point, does R conclude and Marriage is back??

I read a few storys where they were in R for 15, 20 years...blindsided said they were in R for 30 years...30 years?? I cant imagine...


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

OP, look at the alternatives. Are they any better? Will D end your misery? Will separation? Only you can find the answer.

A few months after my wife came clean in late April 2013, in fact it was on July 6th 2013, my wife got sick. She has gotten worse. I had to leave work on Friday to be with her. She is a shell of her former self and looks like she has a chronic disease. She fired her neurologist last week and will be seeing a new group. There are days she is curled up in a ball in angony. This past weekend was realy rough on her.

If the trend I have seen since July continues, she will be bed ridden in a few months.

I did not ask for this. I am the one who decided to work things out with a cheating wife. I am not over my wife cheating on me for years.

But if I walk now, what kind of man would I be?

She says I am the only person showing her compassion. I am the only one caring for her. She was crying this morning telling me how sorry she is for getting sick. This is beyond a cold or a migraine. I believe it has to do with her central nervous system and if I am correct, I will be dealing with an invalid shortly.


OP, you do not know what the future holds for you. If you can find forgiveness and love for your WS, then do so. Even then there will be moments of doubt and questions, but don't allow those emotions to dictate a quick and hasty retreat.

My wife was doing the heavy lifting and was working her butt off to make the M work, when I had one foot out the door.

If my wife dies (I am not sure if her condition is terminal or not) I will be able to live life knowing I did the right thing.

And honestly, had I filed for and followed through with D and this happened to my wife, I would be able to say the same thing, I did the right thing.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Thorburn: There are exceptions to every rule! And in your situation, you followed the one that God would support and have you do!

And with all that you've gone through, all that I can say is that you're a good man, Sir!*


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

the guy said:


> Just like any investment ther is always a risk.....
> Both of you need to do the risk managment to have a healthier marriage.
> Why isn't your old lady doing anything about these doubt you have?


I would probably get banned if I detailed anything but she makes it very clear in very physical terms that no doubt should ever cross my mind, and for those fleeting hours barely anything more than what I have my hands on does 

Think it's just a gloomy few days, winter blues or something, will just keep trying for now I think.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Well the trial separation is now a week in progress, not through choice or her being away on a show but through her rider moving states and being 60miles away it is too far to commute so she has moved with the job for now.

How do I feel about it? TBH, I am not completely over everything but all monitoring systems are working as they should and there are no signs of anything untoward so here's for hoping it all works out, we will see each other on our day off so most likely I will travel up to her and on occasion she can come back home.

At least I was ahead of the game with being able to monitor things from afar, if it goes south or there is a glitch then at least I know where I stand without her knowing a thing


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

i cheated, been a little over a year since everything came out. although things are steadily improving, i know my wife constantly questions herself about her decision to stay...if in fact that's the decision she's made. it's not hard for her to slip back into a bad place and i can't blame her. 

i do know that i have changed, and i've been doing everything in my power to make it up to her. she is precious to me and i still can't believe i slipped into such horrible behavior, we had such a good thing. just hoping i get the chance to be the husband i was, and always wanted to be, until i wasn't. infidelity is such an ugly thing, and for what?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

After I caught her EA it was bad for us. Read my posts for the back round. I was a wreck in Sept. But thanks to people here I read the books and did the 180. Neither of us had a PA but it was rough. Being in R is hard. She asked me to stay home when I was leaving by the end of Jan 14. Was I weak to stay ? Not sure. We've done well so far. Triggers for us come and go. I doubt myself everyday. I know it will pass in time. We we be together in three years. Who knows. One year ? There are days I feel like I should have left. Just to prove a point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

zdfhhjia said:


> Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs?


You can suffer those even if you choose not to R. I remember I did.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> You can suffer those even if you choose not to R. I remember I did.


You just got trolled by a computer algorithm.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> You just got trolled by a computer algorithm.


I hate when that happens.:sleeping:


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

You know I support any person here, for whatever reason to "R". I'm not in their shoes and every relationship has their complications, so divorce is not that easy. So I can only speak for myself. My mind thinks way too much. Mind movies, touching kissing, going out etc, would kill me a hundred times over. I can't shut it off. Because all those wonderful or bad things that come with a marriage is unique. So I always thought we had something special. I was wrong. After 20 years, all those memories tied to one person, evaporated into oblivion. That's why I didn't "R" I couldn't look at her another day. One thing she commented on is how fast I gave our marriage the boot. My final words were, you did what you did fast, why would I want to live with you another second. But that's me.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

zdfhhjia said:


> Is it worth the pain and internal agony from the triggers? The flash backs?


If your asking me-Then Yes it is.
I did some crappy things to the relationship too. Not just her.

I'm going to give it 150%. Then if it doesn't work out. I can leave with my head held high, pride intact with no regret.


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## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

I don't delive that you can truly r once its done its done theres no going back. and that crap of where in a better marriage after is a lie. once you cheat theres no going back it well allway be in your mind. and you well know that you cant really trust your spouse again. you can learn to leave with them and get along but youll never forget and that will always leave you wondering.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

RWB said:


> Exactly...
> 
> DD was 4+ years ago, at first it appeared my wife had hooked up with an old college BF and had a short lived PA. Days in, I discovered she had been serially cheating for close to 7 years. The affairs were all LT and very P. It wasn't just bad it was nasty bad.
> 
> ...


You describe choosing to R with a serial cheater. Do you ever think that you deserve someone better than her?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> It is all opinion. Many of us believe only weak men stay. Some think it is harder to stay and work on it, but I personally see most that do it as major beta men and leaving for them was never a real possibility, they would have to be left. Simply not alpha enough to leave and risk being alone.
> Some disagree, IMO most that do are just defensive about their beta decisions.
> I think if you for whatever the reason feel you have got to stay then go ahead, but you get to live with it all. The triggers, mind movies, the never knowing if she is late for a good reason or if today is the day it happened again. The pedestal you had originally put her on over the other woman of the world (the reason you married her) she will never live up to it ever again.
> You are settling, period.


You still have to live with it even if you leave.. it doesn't magically go away, even if you're an alpha.. you can't thump your hairy chest and grunt and then it disappears. You'll carry the scars into your next relationship.. Things in life aren't always as simple as black and white, alpha beta. It sounds awesome, makes you feel good about what a tough badass you are.. but not every BS that chooses to R is weak. I take that as a personal insult and as someone that isn't beta I call you out for over simplifying a complicated situation.

If it makes you feel better about your decision to insult everyone that chooses a different path, is that really something an alpha would do? Sounds pretty weak and beta to me.. Be a man, embrace your decision without the need to insult others or project your situation on them. Use your alpha brain and not just your super sized alpha muscles.

Look, a weak beta standing up to the big bad alpha... I guess you're theories are a pile of crap.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

After this happened to me and reading thousands of post ...the BH seem to have a much harder with R.....I have read percentage wise of ALL the BHs who try to R with WW...only 15-20% ever make it...MOST all BH Choose D....

Upon further study i really Truly believe it is a gender thing....

The pictures the OM showed me after i told his wife about A with my W....I knew at that moment i could never forgive much less FORGET...EVER.

The level of lies and betrayal were of such depth in knew in my soul it was over.


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