# How to connect with wife



## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

My wife and I have likely never been truly emotionally connected. We've always been great friends, seldom fight, have no money issues, but I've been unable to give her the emotional connection she needs. She has brought up this emotional disconnection many times over the years, but we've never done anything about it. Neither of us said "we need to get marriage counseling". I've always done what my brain thinks is best (acts of service love language)...and that's appreciated and noticed, but not what she needs.
I'm a very independent person and any friendships I had in the past have degraded (not sure why I let them go). I noticed this and want to start to turn that around....but it's hard as I've worked from home for at least 15 years (and also the covid isolation). Am trying to reconnect with old friends.
We are polar opposites on the political spectrum....so the last four years have been very tough. I keep my mouth shut on political topics, while she is quite vocal. I'd rather not have the argument....also difficult to separate out the actions of our current president from the underlying principles on each side.
I'm waiting for an appointment with a counselor to start working on myself to learn how to open up. We are in a holding pattern on marriage counseling due to covid and little children ears that are around all the time. Trying to figure out ways to improve my situation.
Each night after the kids go to bed, we retire to separate bedrooms. I'm not wanting to have a big sitdown and say "let's fix this"....but instead want to learn figure out more about myself and how to make that connection she needs in hopes of bringing us closer.

Thoughts?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I applaud your recognizing there's a serious problem. That's a start.

The fact you're retiring to two different bedrooms every night and are it seems each are ok with that is a huge problem.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

How long have you been married...? And WHY would you have separate bedrooms, and for how long?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> How long have you been married...? And WHY would you have separate bedrooms, and for how long?


Married for 14 years...separate bedrooms for most of the time. She's a very light sleeper and I snore badly. We tried spending time, watching a new TV series after kids go to bed...but that's stopped.

Also...I believe she's checked out of the relationship. She is willing to do couples therapy at a later date, but she seems to just have accepted things are the way they are and aren't going to change.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

How much time are you actually spending together doing things together? Without your kids or other distractions? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Do YOU feel like you get what you need from your wife? Or is SHE the only one who has unmet needs in your marriage?

Also, how often are you sexually intimate?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

kag123 said:


> How much time are you actually spending together doing things together? Without your kids or other distractions?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Little/none. Just interacting to make life happen. Decorate house for holidays....walks with kids.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DennisW said:


> I've always done what my brain thinks is best (acts of service love language)...and that's appreciated and noticed, but not what she needs.


So what are HER love languages? Why aren't you doing those things for her? There are plenty of examples in the book.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Do YOU feel like you get what you need from your wife? Or is SHE the only one who has unmet needs in your marriage?
> 
> Also, how often are you sexually intimate?


I don't know what I need from my wife. Again...I feel I'm very independent. With my love language being "acts of service"...I'm happy with any help I can get to make our life easier....which she does. I just don't know how to speak her language - believe it would be "quality time"
I don't recall the last time we had sex (many years).


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

DennisW said:


> Little/none. Just interacting to make life happen. Decorate house for holidays....walks with kids.


I think your first step needs to be dating again. Find opportunities to spend time together alone without your kids. It's harder with covid these days and might be awkward since you are so disconnected, but if you can find something to do together that would help. Even just taking walks together would be a start. You need to be together in order to form an emotional connection. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

bobert said:


> So what are HER love languages? Why aren't you doing those things for her? There are plenty of examples in the book.


I'll go back and re-read that section tonight.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

What attracted the two of you in the beginning?

I have noticed a bit of a disconnect between my husband and myself as well. We have different hobbies. We watch different TV shows. It’s been tough. In the start of our relationship, we went out and drank a lot. Had big parties. Hung out with friends all the time. But we’d also sit by the fire together, sit on the porch swing every night and talk, hang out on the deck and have an adult beverage, watch a certain TV show on different nights of the week, etc. Now, as time has gone on, we don’t do any of those things.

I’m not saying I want to go hang out in bars, but it would be fun to me if we went to the bar up the road and had a couple drinks every now and again, maybe just to relax and unwind, “meet me for a drink after work”. We didn’t have a single fire this summer. We no longer have a porch swing. The times I’ve asked him to hang out on the deck with me, he won’t sit down, rather he walks around and does yard work. We don’t watch any TV together anymore, our interests are different. I asked him to watch Trial 4 with me this past week. He made it through one episode. We also sleep in different rooms, but his is because of an injury.

It’s disheartening to say the least. I long to spend actual quality time with him. He seems too busy for me often and it hurts. He’s always been that way, but I used to at least get SOME time.

That’s why I brought up what you did in the beginning that attracted you to each other. It could be that simple. Think back to those days and see if she wants to do some of those things.


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## cd2 (Nov 17, 2020)

Put kids to bed early and open a bottle of wine and sit and listen and ask her how she's doing. Once the conservation is over write down the key points of what you heard. Study this and reflect on it. Repeat. This is the probably the most important "act of service" you could ever perform- much more important than paying bills or taking out the trash.

Is there some way you could fix your snoring to get back in bad with her?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You've "woken up" too late...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> I don't know what I need from my wife.  Again...I feel I'm very independent. With my love language being "acts of service"...I'm happy with any help I can get to make our life easier....which she does. I just don't know how to speak her language - believe it would be "quality time"
> I don't recall the last time we had sex (many years).


Well, there is independent, and then there is unemotional. 

I consider myself independent, VERY independent...but I'm also very emotional, meaning, I FEEL things strongly and am very passionate. I don't always express it, but it's always there. But I am independent about it, because I don't really burden others with those emotions and feelings - I try to handle them within myself. And I don't rely on others to "fix" my feelings.

What you are describing so far doesn't sound like "independence" to me as much as unemotional and remote - which is ok, but then you are certainly going to struggle with connecting, because you are processing everything through your intellect and not enough with your heart, your feelings. I wonder, do you ever feel passionate about anything...? Have you ever? What are the things that you've felt excited and emotional about in your life over the years?

As far as YEARS of no sex...that is a BIG problem and danger for your marriage. That's the thing that makes a marriage partnership special and different from a roommate arrangement, which is what you actually have now. There is NO future for your marriage without sex. Are you using porn for that release?

Also, I would like to know what your secondary love language is - Acts of Service is first, ok...but there is also a second...what do you think that is...?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

But after 14 years, sleeping in different rooms, with a wife detached from the marriage, no sex for years, no paying attention to the wife's needs, emotional disconnection... in my opinion it's impossible to revive the corpse...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, couples need to spend about 15 hours per week alone together doing date-like things in order to maintain a healthy romantic relationship. Yours is in enough trouble, that you probably need to bump that up a bit to 20 or more. DO NOT say you don't have time for all that. You'll realize that you have time to do the things that matter to you. This should matter. _She_ should matter. If you really can't prioritize your wife's emotional needs, then there's no reason to expect her to keep prioritizing yours. And that's how you ended up in your current situation. 

By date-like things I mean the sorts of things you two did when you were dating, when you first fell in love. Things like holding hands and taking a walk, sitting and talking over a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, cooking together, sharing a meal (no phones!), engaging in hobbies, laughing together, making love. Fun things where you focus on one another, while meeting her needs for affection and intimate conversation and your needs for recreational companionship and sex. These are the things that make up that "quality time" that seems to so mystify you. Check out the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley and get to work. 

If you have any hope at all of salvaging your marriage, you two are going to have to devote time and attention to one another.


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

DennisW said:


> Also...I believe she's checked out of the relationship.


With this simple statement the relationship is all but over. In short, counseling will not help. You have stated the right words, love language, that your W acknowledges but is empty of any emotion.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Trying to catch up (I thought I replied here, but not seeing it.


LosingHim said:


> What attracted the two of you in the beginning?


I think she needed stability and we both needed companionship. Not enough to lean on at our current stage.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> What you are describing so far doesn't sound like "independence" to me as much as unemotional and remote - which is ok, but then you are certainly going to struggle with connecting, because you are processing everything through your intellect and not enough with your heart, your feelings. I wonder, do you ever feel passionate about anything...? Have you ever? What are the things that you've felt excited and emotional about in your life over the years?
> 
> As far as YEARS of no sex...that is a BIG problem and danger for your marriage. That's the thing that makes a marriage partnership special and different from a roommate arrangement, which is what you actually have now. There is NO future for your marriage without sex. Are you using porn for that release?
> 
> Also, I would like to know what your secondary love language is - Acts of Service is first, ok...but there is also a second...what do you think that is...?


That's a very fair observation and likely spot on. I'm very scientific/mathematical and not artistic at the least. She's the opposite. Passion, excited, emotional....all things I've heard as what she needs to know from me. I just don't know how to go there. It's like I'm on autopilot.

Porn....yes. But I don't see how sex can happen until we rebuild some kind of connection.

Other love language...probably touch....but given the current climate that's not an option.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DennisW said:


> I think she needed stability and we both needed companionship.


Both very reasonable needs. But it sounds like neither of you was particularly inflamed with passion. Am I right? Practical reasons are fine. It just sounds like the spark was never really there. 

Am I right or am I way off base?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> Both very reasonable needs. But it sounds like neither of you was particularly inflamed with passion. Am I right? Practical reasons are fine. It just sounds like the spark was never really there.
> 
> Am I right or am I way off base?


You're right. I think we've both realized that. I guess that's why I phrased my Subject as "connect" and not "reconnect".


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Although you say your wife is passionate, it sounds like her decision to pick you as a mate was not. Sounds to me like she was looking for a good provider. I doubt you two can connect if the connection was never there. I get the feeling that your wife thought her reason(s) for marrying you would be adequate. She has realized they are not; thus she mentions the emotional disconnect issue.

As a woman, I don't think you can breathe life into this. Just sounds like it boils down to a mismatch completely lacking in passion or sexual intimacy. JMO.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Although you say your wife is passionate, it sounds like her decision to pick you as a mate was not. Sounds to me like she was looking for a good provider. I doubt you two can connect if the connection was never there. I get the feeling that your wife thought her reason(s) for marrying you would be adequate. She has realized they are not; thus she mentions the emotional disconnect issue.
> 
> As a woman, I don't think you can breathe life into this. Just sounds like it boils down to a mismatch completely lacking in passion or sexual intimacy. JMO.


I agree with this. No need to jump through hoops and contort yourself trying to get her to feel something she never did.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

This might seem really backwards but it seems like both of you are in roommate mode. I think you need to have a long talk once the kids are asleep about how you go about lighting a flame of some kind. Come up with a plan, Include you getting your snoring under control so you can sleep together. The backwards part is I kind of feel like you two need to have sex. Kind of an extreme kick in the butt that oh yah we're married, we should have some kind of intimate sexual relationship. Remind yourselves of that by going straight to the sex part. Kind of a full commit to seeing each other as sexual partners again and not just platonic roommates.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Livvie said:


> I agree with this. No need to jump through hoops and contort yourself trying to get her to feel something she never did.


Also to Prodigal. We've agreed to stay in roommate mode for the kids. I have great concerns how that plays out over time. She has brought up the topic of "open marriage", which I pushed back on. I don't know how I can handle that emotionally. 
I'd rather jump, bend, twist, and contort instead of go thru that....if nothing else, I'll come out of things knowing more about myself and maybe what not to do.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This might seem really backwards but it seems like both of you are in roommate mode. I think you need to have a long talk once the kids are asleep about how you go about lighting a flame of some kind. Come up with a plan, Include you getting your snoring under control so you can sleep together. The backwards part is I kind of feel like you two need to have sex. Kind of an extreme kick in the butt that oh yah we're married, we should have some kind of intimate sexual relationship. Remind yourselves of that by going straight to the sex part. Kind of a full commit to seeing each other as sexual partners again and not just platonic roommates.


I understand and agree it would help break the ice. That idea would be great coming from a marriage counselor...not sure how it would be received from me. I think I need to make some level of improvement in our engagement before I try to make that leap.
Also....she's going thru some bodily pains right now, so I believe it would come off as insensitive. Not trying to make excuses.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

DennisW said:


> I understand and agree it would help break the ice. That idea would be great coming from a marriage counselor...not sure how it would be received from me. I think I need to make some level of improvement in our engagement before I try to make that leap.


Just do it!!! I mean take a real interest in your wife. Just tell her you've had an epiphany and now you really want to build that connection that has been missing. Tell her you want her to write down a list of activities she would enjoy doing that you can do together. Also make a plan, schedule time that as a rule you spend together talking, violating or missing this scheduled time should not happen. Give both of you hope that things will get better. You have said you're very scientific and mathematical which probably means you're very analytical. Don't analyze over and over just take action. If she responds with zero excitement or interest the marriage is probably doomed. As far as staying roommates for the kids, I don't like this at all. Your modeling a horrible marriage for your kids and they're going to come to believe that is normal. In the end I think thats worse for them than you divorcing.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> Also to Prodigal. We've agreed to stay in roommate mode for the kids. I have great concerns how that plays out over time. She has brought up the topic of "open marriage", which I pushed back on. I don't know how I can handle that emotionally.
> I'd rather jump, bend, twist, and contort instead of go thru that....if nothing else, I'll come out of things knowing more about myself and maybe what not to do.


I have alot to say about your other posts, which I find interesting, but I wanted to start with this -- you say you aren't able (right now) to meet your wife's emotional OR physical needs for TOUCH and connection, but you also "can't handle" her finding someone else to meet them (open marriage)...and I want you to know that if she asked you for this and you said No, you are GOING to lose her. Her asking for an open marriage means she's GIVEN UP on YOU providing those needs to her. Her asking for an open marriage is a sign of her loneliness and longing for being wanted as a woman, not just a roommate.

Now I still believe it's possible to bring that back with her, but I'm not at all sure that YOU will be able to do so - you are going to have to work SO hard at it, at being almost a different person, and it may not be possible for you, even if YOU really really want to change! 

Also, I see in this post, we have hit on something that you DO feel emotionally about - sharing your wife. I wonder then, WHY haven't you touched her in YEARS...?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Just do it!!! I mean take a real interest in your wife. Just tell her you've had an epiphany and now you really want to build that connection that has been missing. Tell her you want her to write down a list of activities she would enjoy doing that you can do together. Also make a plan, schedule time that as a rule you spend together talking, violating or missing this scheduled time should not happen. Give both of you hope that things will get better. You have said you're very scientific and mathematical which probably means you're very analytical. Don't analyze over and over just take action. If she responds with zero excitement or interest the marriage is probably doomed. As far as staying roommates for the kids, I don't like this at all. Your modeling a horrible marriage for your kids and they're going to come to believe that is normal. In the end I think thats worse for them than you divorcing.


It takes two. Did you read that there never was a spark, the reasons she chose him, and that she has already brought up an open marriage?

I think it's not right to suggest this kind of advice to someone in the face of a spouse who doesn't give a **** about them or connecting.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ever hear the old saying “opposites attract”? The part you don’t often hear is “but they don’t sustain”. And they don’t — without a lot of work. So if the two of you really do want a marriage, you have a great deal of work ahead of you.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> Also to Prodigal. We've agreed to stay in roommate mode for the kids. I have great concerns how that plays out over time. She has brought up the topic of "open marriage", which I pushed back on. I don't know how I can handle that emotionally.
> I'd rather jump, bend, twist, and contort instead of go thru that....*if nothing else, I'll come out of things knowing more about myself and maybe what not to do.*





DennisW said:


> *I understand and agree it would help break the ice.* That idea would be great coming from a marriage counselor...not sure how it would be received from me. *I think I need to make some level of improvement in our engagement before I try to make that leap.*
> Also....she's going thru some bodily pains right now, so *I believe it would come off as insensitive.* Not trying to make excuses.


I bolded some things in your posts that I want you to notice and think about -- what you are doing here is THINKING too much. You are processing these things with your intellect and not your heart. Your heart is where the feeling of not wanting to share your wife in an open marriage is -- THAT is where you need to be coming from with her. 

Go ahead and THINK and analyze all you want about these things - it's actually good, and I do lots of thinking about my emotions and feelings...it's how I sort them out and control them. But you then need to take the next step and FEEL the things that you are thinking about, and get in touch with them from an emotional place. 

What will it be like if you lose her? What would it mean for you to not have her in your life anymore? Don't just THINK about what it would be like -- allow yourself to FEEL it. And then REACH for her with those feelings.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And — even with all the work — you may not succeed because what you’re looking for was never there to begin with.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Livvie said:


> It takes two. Did you read that there never was a spark, the reasons she chose him, and that she has already brought up an open marriage?
> 
> I think it's not right to suggest this kind of advice to someone in the face of a spouse who doesn't give a **** about them or connecting.


I don't think he really knows because I don't think he's ever tried. If he just doesn't have it in him then there's no hope. If he tries and she couldn't care less than there's no hope. A person can choose to give up without ever trying but he owes it to the kids to try. The wife isn't here but I am guessing she has checked out because he has never tried and now she has built up resentment and the open marriage suggestion was a cry for help. Some people don't want to beg for the attention they need they want other people to do it without them asking so it is believable. She has asked he has done nothing. 

Do you think it's better to just walk away without ever having tried?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

How long ago did this open marriage discussion happen?

A long term lack of physical intimacy can cause major issues, you might already have an open marriage and not know it.

It is good that you are looking into the issues at hand, but it seems like it should have happened many years ago.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

re16 said:


> How long ago did this open marriage discussion happen?
> 
> A long term lack of physical intimacy can cause major issues, you might already have an open marriage and not know it.
> 
> It is good that you are looking into the issues at hand, but it seems like it should have happened many years ago.


Happened in May (during lockdown). We agreed we need counseling. I've taken matters in my own hands and am starting individual counseling (via Zoom from my car in some parking lot so kids don't hear). We will still need counseling, but if I can do some self discovery of how I got where I am, work on my communication, etc....maybe that'll make couples counseling go better.

I understand I might already have an open marriage and we'll deal with that bridge if/when it comes up. I don't want to "go there" yet....as I want help on how to handle it.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Appreciate everyone's help, by the way.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> That's a very fair observation and likely spot on. I'm very scientific/mathematical and not artistic at the least. She's the opposite. Passion, excited, emotional....all things I've heard as what she needs to know from me. I just don't know how to go there. It's like I'm on autopilot.
> 
> Porn....yes. But I don't see how sex can happen until we rebuild some kind of connection.
> 
> Other love language...probably touch....but given the current climate that's not an option.


Sex happens because you desire your wife as a WOMAN and she desires you as a MAN. You know how there are lots of one-nigh-stands, friends-with-benefits, and swingers who have sex...?? There is VERY little emotional connection for those couples, but they have sex because it's fun and feels good. If you wait for the perfect "connection", you'll never have sex with her! What would happen if you just came up behind her and started kissing her neck...? She might jump at first because it's so unlike you, but she might love it...and you've GOT to TRY or you are going to lose her.
You have an uncommon resistance (for a man) to reaching for her physically...which is understandable (kind of)...but what is it you are afraid of...? 

And you need to STOP creating the blocks to resolving this -- _but given the current climate that's not an option_ - NOPE, you are wrong, touching is always an option, even when couples fight! You NEED touching, and SHE needs it - it doesn't even have to be sex, but start touching her!!

I would say that the connection she wants from you is she wants you to be passionate, excited, and emotional about HER...I think where you got lost was that she doesn't feel noticed and appreciated as a woman and as herself with you. She wants you to demonstrate that you FEEL love and desire for her...that's how you connect.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think he should consider carefully that she's potentially cheated already, and be careful if he's going to have sex with her (STD/STIs).


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

DennisW said:


> Happened in May (during lockdown). We agreed we need counseling. I've taken matters in my own hands and am starting individual counseling (via Zoom from my car in some parking lot so kids don't hear). We will still need counseling, but if I can do some self discovery of how I got where I am, work on my communication, etc....maybe that'll make couples counseling go better.
> 
> I understand I might already have an open marriage and we'll deal with that bridge if/when it comes up. I don't want to "go there" yet....as I want help on how to handle it.


I think counseling for yourself is great. But it seems like you're using the working on you first as a way to avoid putting in real effort with your wife. Maybe you're afraid to find out the opportunity to build something real has long past and there is no hope. I think the situation demands immediate action.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> I understand and agree it would help break the ice. That idea would be great coming from a marriage counselor...not sure how it would be received from me. I think I need to make some level of improvement in our engagement before I try to make that leap.
> Also....she's going thru some bodily pains right now, so I believe it would come off as insensitive. Not trying to make excuses.


If she is going through body pain, you should offer to give her a massage to make her feel better...that might help break the ice, and remind you two how good it feels to touch eachother.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DennisW said:


> That's a very fair observation and likely spot on. I'm very scientific/mathematical and not artistic at the least. She's the opposite. Passion, excited, emotional....all things I've heard as what she needs to know from me. I just don't know how to go there. It's like I'm on autopilot.
> 
> Porn....yes. But I don't see how sex can happen until we rebuild some kind of connection.
> 
> Other love language...probably touch....but given the current climate that's not an option.


The science/math excuse is ridiculous and has nothing to do with an emotional connection. I have a degree in physics and work in actuarial/data science....I'm about as logical and analytical as one can get. But I can still have an intimate conversation and be close to someone.

My ex, otoh, was actually a non analytical liberal arts guy who couldn't talk about anything beyond sports and the weather and could only have the smallest of adult conversations through email. So the math thing has nothing to do with this.

So the question here is what has caused you to want change after so long? Is it a connection you want or just sex?

First, sleeping separately is terrible for a marriage. Have you made any effort to deal with the snoring? Have you seen a doctor? Looked into the issues that cause it? My ex snored like a freight train and did nothing to address it. That sent a clear message to me.

Second, have you tried simple things like asking your wife about her day? Sharing details of your day? Sharing funny things with her? The times I feel closest to my guy are the times when we laugh together. Is there absolutely nothing you can talk to your wife about?

Example.....we are both cyclists and both love astronomy, so we'll talk about the view of the sky and where the planet are as well as the expected weather for our next bike ride. That's how you start a connection.....talk about things.

Is there absolutely nothing out there that you both find interesting?.

As far as touch, yoi can't touch her shouldsr or hug her? You can't put your hand on hers sometimes? Touch is so much then sex and getting off. And yes....if you want to start building intimacy you're going to have to stop porn. It interferes with intimacy and if you're already having trouble connecting it's going to be a big roadblock because whatever emotional energy you have to give is going to porn.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think counseling for yourself is great. But it seems like you're using the working on you first as a way to avoid putting in real effort with your wife. Maybe you're afraid to find out the opportunity to build something real has long past and there is no hope. I think the situation demands immediate action.


THIS is a great point that you need to consider @DennisW...


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Leaving this here to tag you


Science/math comment is fair. I think we've since talked about me as unemotional and remote.

Wanting change...I think two-fold...tired of feeling alone, thinking about my future (where does this go if left unchanged)

Snoring...it's not apnea. Had a septoplasty to open things up. Other options are mouth guard or a roto-rooter of the back of my throat. Messaging noted and will start showing some action.

Yes....we do talk about our days and funny little things here and there. I think there is a fair amount of emotion/resentment tied up politics and my lack of strong, vocal opinions on the current state of affairs.

Touch....will try to get us hanging out after kid bedtime and see what I can do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Years ago in my mid 20s I was with a woman for several years who I could never quite please and who always had an underlying level of anger and resentment towards me.

She would swear her love and devotion but was always irritated at me and nothing I ever did was right or good enough. 

I finally had the ah hah moment when I realized she had gotten involved with someone else - another woman.

She dumped me and moved in with this other gal. That was decades ago. 

I met up with her a couple years ago and we ended up having a good, open heart-to-heart.

She admitted to being gay and said she did love me and that we had a lot of fun and great sex. -  but that she needed the emotional connection and closeness that she could only get with other women. 

Now I am not saying she is bisexual or lesbian or anything like that. But rather as an example that some women simply have emotional needs that can’t really be met by one man. 

Trying to turn yourself into a chick or into someone that you are not is not going to work.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DennisW said:


> Science/math comment is fair. I think we've since talked about me as unemotional and remote.
> 
> Wanting change...I think two-fold...tired of feeling alone, thinking about my future (where does this go if left unchanged)
> 
> ...


You have my sympathy on the politics thing. People do seem to have become more and more hysterical and incapable of having a thoughtful discussion, but since half the country thinks the other half is evil and racist its hard to discuss anything. There's an interesting wapo article that talks about the effects of social media in encouraging hatred and hysteria.....people aren't any more divided then they always have been but they hate each other more. Social media is designed to encourage this hatred.

Perhaps you could show that article to your wife and discuss? I'm a center right leaning voter and I've had great success with my more liberal friends when I shared this article. People who tended to get hysterical all of a sudden calmed down and were interested.

Hysteria and over the top emotional reactions are exhausting....that's probably the science geek in me speaking. I didn't mean to get into politics, but since it seems to be a big issue for you I thought I'd throw it out there.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> You have my sympathy on the politics thing. People do seem to have become more and more hysterical and incapable of having a thoughtful discussion, but since half the country thinks the other half is evil and racist its hard to discuss anything. There's an interesting wapo article that talks about the effects of social media in encouraging hatred and hysteria.....people aren't any more divided then they always have been but they hate each other more. Social media is designed to encourage this hatred.


Darn WAPO paywall


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Years ago in my mid 20s I was with a woman for several years who I could never quite please and who always had an underlying level of anger and resentment towards me.
> 
> She would swear her love and devotion but was always irritated at me and nothing I ever did was right or good enough.
> 
> ...


You don't need to be a chick to have a connection with your wife. It is true that most women have close gf's.....I know i do... but it's not the same as being close to a man. Most straight women desire both, and we don't expect the relationship with our man to be the same as the ones with our girlfriends.

All you really need is for your woman to feel safe with you and to feel like she can talk to you about things that matter to her. She doesn't expect you to respond like her gf's.

Your ex was gay. She may have had love for you....many women are fluid this way...but she was gay.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DennisW said:


> Darn WAPO paywall


I got in without paying....when it hits you up x out of the pay wall.

Or try a different browser.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I got in without paying....when it hits you up x out of the pay wall.
> 
> Or try a different browser.


Weird...diff browser. Can you share a link to the one you're referring to? Here or PM?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DennisW said:


> Weird...diff browser. Can you share a link to the one you're referring to? Here or PM?











Why Social Media Is So Good at Polarizing Us


Mathematicians are teaming up with political scientists to create models of how social media divides us, and the results suggest at least one popular solution might actually make the problem worse.




www.wsj.com





Sorry....I must havd been thinking of something else with wapo.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

From what you write, saving your marriage is a long shot, but imho you can salvage it, but she has to buy in. I am confused from reading Your post. Is she seeing someone else? You mention open marriage? If so, your objective just became harder To achieve.

My FWW and I worked through with our MC Dr. David Schnarch’s “The Passionate Marriage”.
i would suggest you and your wife read it. It is also available on Audible. Definitely a good read for each of you if you want to revive your marriage.

This book has many examples from his counseling. Also, consider Dr. John Gottman as a resource. There is an app you can download Gottman Card decks. These are wonderful tools to improve communication, a link is below. These can be greatly beneficial.






The Gottman Institute | A research-based approach to relationships


The Gottman Institute. A research-based approach to relationships. Explore our resources and tools developed by Drs. John and Julie Gottman.




www.gottman.com






Good luck sir.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DennisW said:


> Also to Prodigal. We've agreed to stay in roommate mode for the kids. I have great concerns how that plays out over time. She has brought up the topic of "open marriage", which I pushed back on. I don't know how I can handle that emotionally.
> I'd rather jump, bend, twist, and contort instead of go thru that....if nothing else, I'll come out of things knowing more about myself and maybe what not to do.


Do you actually love your wife? Are you attracted to your wife? Were you ever physically attracted to one another? Is your wife attracted to you? How many times has she brought up this disconnect and since when.
TBH if she brought this up many times over the years and you did nothing about it, she has probably checked out, if she is talking open marriage she has definitely checked out. Once a woman checks out, there really is no going back, that ship has sailed. She is biding her time till the kids are grown up. Does she work? 
Why are you now suddenly interested in doing something about the disconnect after ignoring her for all these years? Is it because you know she has disconnected and you let things go too far? It is a bit callous and self-serving to now bother and she will see right though it. it might be better to have a heart to heart and plan what happens after the kids leave so that you can go your separate ways.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Ever hear the old saying “opposites attract”? The part you don’t often hear is “but they don’t sustain”. And they don’t — without a lot of work. So if the two of you really do want a marriage, you have a great deal of work ahead of you.


Exactly. That’s my experience too. Opposites attract for short while, but long term it’s usually a miss


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DennisW said:


> Happened in May (during lockdown). We agreed we need counseling. I've taken matters in my own hands and am starting individual counseling (via Zoom from my car in some parking lot so kids don't hear). We will still need counseling, but if I can do some self discovery of how I got where I am, work on my communication, etc....maybe that'll make couples counseling go better.
> 
> I understand I might already have an open marriage and we'll deal with that bridge if/when it comes up. I don't want to "go there" yet....as I want help on how to handle it.


if you are not getting your needs met with your wife, where are you getting them met? Are there any other women in the picture? Because if there are that changes everything.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> From what you write, saving your marriage is a long shot, but imho you can salvage it, but she has to buy in. I am confused from reading Your post. Is she seeing someone else? You mention open marriage? If so, your objective just became harder To achieve.


Not seeing anyone that I can tell. Hoping she brought up open marriage as an attention-getter for how much she either wants change....or is willing to accept friend mode and what she needs to continue.
What's FWW? I can't find that when I google?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DennisW said:


> What's FWW? I can't find that when I google?


Former wayward wife.

Here is a list of abbreviations:








Common Message Board Abbreviations & Acronyms


Need to put together a list of common abbreviations for people new to online message boards.... here is a start: AAMOF = as a matter of fact AP = Affair Partner ASAP = as soon as possible ASAP = as soon as possible b/c = because BAK = back at keyboard BBFN = bye bye for now BBL = be back later...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

aine said:


> Do you actually love your wife? Are you attracted to your wife? Were you ever physically attracted to one another? Is your wife attracted to you? How many times has she brought up this disconnect and since when.
> TBH if she brought this up many times over the years and you did nothing about it, she has probably checked out, if she is talking open marriage she has definitely checked out. Once a woman checks out, there really is no going back, that ship has sailed. She is biding her time till the kids are grown up. Does she work?
> Why are you now suddenly interested in doing something about the disconnect after ignoring her for all these years? Is it because you know she has disconnected and you let things go too far? It is a bit callous and self-serving to now bother and she will see right though it. it might be better to have a heart to heart and plan what happens after the kids leave so that you can go your separate ways.


I do love my wife. Always have. Am amazed at the work and dedication she has in being a mother. Always have been attracted to her. It comes up about once every year for many years. I know. She does not work outside the home.
Why now? I've looked forward and saw how this plays out. Call me naiive....call me stupid if you want. That's where we're at.
I'm prepared to plan for what happens later...but would really like for us both to give it one last stab. I think mentally preparing for "what happens later" is what really got my attention. All we've done in the past is said "it's a problem".


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

aine said:


> if you are not getting your needs met with your wife, where are you getting them met? Are there any other women in the picture? Because if there are that changes everything.


No other romance in my life. None. Never a consideration. Have dealt with infidelity in my parents and can't go there.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DennisW said:


> No other romance in my life. None. Never a consideration. Have dealt with infidelity in my parents and can't go there.


So are you attracted to your wife?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So, she doesn't work. How old are your kids? Does she have plans to work in the near future? It's quite bold of her to suggest an open marriage-- as someone who can't support herself financially (what if the suggestion had made you decide to divorce right now).

Given the state of your marriage-- what are her plans to get back into the work force-- or does she think you will just support her forever?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So, she doesn't work. How old are your kids? Does she have plans to work in the near future? It's quite bold of her to suggest an open marriage-- as someone who can't support herself financially (what if the suggestion had made you decide to divorce right now).
> 
> Given the state of your marriage-- what are her plans to get back into the work force-- or does she think you will just support her forever?


Two kids in the early teens. She has started revamping a skill she learned in college that may help her be self sufficient. Also, there is a significant (protected) inheritance that could sustain her. Desire is to grow that and not shrink it


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

We had a “touching” moment and then a brief discussion. Our problems are more than just “not connected”....but more around “you’re not outraged at what Trump has been up to for the past four years”. Restating....your core republican/conservative values are different than mine.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DennisW said:


> We had a “touching” moment and then a brief discussion. Our problems are more than just “not connected”....but more around “you’re not outraged at what Trump has been up to for the past four years”. Restating....your core republican/conservative values are different than mine.


I have a novel thought. I know this sounds harsh but perhaps one whose opinions and values she thinks so little of doesn't need to be supporting her.

Just a thought.

Perhaps you should suggest that you respect her opinions even though you disagree but she clearly doesn't return that courtesy, so maybe she should pay her own bills or find someone else to support her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Livvie said:


> So, she doesn't work. How old are your kids? Does she have plans to work in the near future? It's quite bold of her to suggest an open marriage-- as someone who can't support herself financially (what if the suggestion had made you decide to divorce right now).
> 
> Given the state of your marriage-- what are her plans to get back into the work force-- or does she think you will just support her forever?


it could have been a statement to jolt him into the reality that things were not going well in the marriage


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DennisW said:


> We had a “touching” moment and then a brief discussion. Our problems are more than just “not connected”....but more around “you’re not outraged at what Trump has been up to for the past four years”. Restating....your core republican/conservative values are different than mine.


I think the current political situation in the USA has spouses, families and friends pitted against one another because to the huge divide between both sides. However, in another 6 months none of it will be here nor there and life will go on. It is hardly worthwhile (in the case of your wife) destroying her family over a recalcitrant man with no morals (now you know who I support and I am not American) or (from your perspective) a man who appears morally upright but is prepared to go against every value Catholics hold dear, go figure. My point is that this is only an excuse. Your problems were there before and after the election and you both need to sit down, identify them and tackle them.
My husband and I are diametrically opposed on many political issues but who cares, it is not the be all and end all of our relationship and if anything, it gives us something to spar on which is often fun.

Perhaps you need to get to know one another again, you need to show her you value and treasure her. You are the one who is happy to be disconnected, you say that is who you are. Maybe you have some underlying undiagnosed personality disorder, or it could be your FOO, etc. What ever it is, find out and deal with it.

Someone mentioned Gottmans cards, which sound like a fun way to spend time together.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DennisW said:


> Two kids in the early teens. She has started revamping a skill she learned in college that may help her be self sufficient. Also, there is a significant (protected) inheritance that could sustain her. Desire is to grow that and not shrink it


Not wanting to be negative all the time, but it seems to me she is planning her exit... that and the open marriage comment...


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DW,

How many years has it been since your marriage went sexless? Do you think your wife would describe it going sexless as her fault or yours?

With the fact that she requested an open marriage, I assume she thinks it is you. This is a major issue.

If she hasn't already found someone else or targeted someone else, you really need to be the one acting differently.

If your wife were to come on here and tell us she was in a sexless marriage for years, we'd likely tell her it won't get better, she shouldn't expect that you will be able to change yourself, and that if sex/affection is important to her, she should move on.

If you don't want that to happen, you need to show her you can change your level of affection.

I would however, *without accusing her of anything*, do a little verifying that she doesn't have a reason to be asking for open marriage. Like check your phone bill for a lot of calls to certain unknown number, see if she has new fancy underwear... etc. We only say that because usually the open marriage request shows up after they have interest in someone else.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Sorry I went quiet yesterday. I'm aware of what might be going on and will deal with that when it comes up. I'm willing to accept some level of previous infidelity based on my inaction in the past if at some point we can turn things around (and find a way to ensure it doesn't happen again).
For now...I'm working on the barrier in front of me. Politics and the general party affiliation I've applied to myself are a barrier for her. I started looking at the issues that various political beliefs map to one of the many political views (not just Dem/Repub) to start to foster discussion on the hot topics. Well received so far.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Rowan said:


> OP, couples need to spend about 15 hours per week alone together doing date-like things in order to maintain a healthy romantic relationship. Yours is in enough trouble, that you probably need to bump that up a bit to 20 or more. DO NOT say you don't have time for all that. You'll realize that you have time to do the things that matter to you. This should matter. _She_ should matter. If you really can't prioritize your wife's emotional needs, then there's no reason to expect her to keep prioritizing yours. And that's how you ended up in your current situation.
> 
> By date-like things I mean the sorts of things you two did when you were dating, when you first fell in love. Things like holding hands and taking a walk, sitting and talking over a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, cooking together, sharing a meal (no phones!), engaging in hobbies, laughing together, making love. Fun things where you focus on one another, while meeting her needs for affection and intimate conversation and your needs for recreational companionship and sex. These are the things that make up that "quality time" that seems to so mystify you. Check out the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley and get to work.
> 
> If you have any hope at all of salvaging your marriage, you two are going to have to devote time and attention to one another.


You hit the nail on the head. My husband and I are very different individuals, with different hobbies and interests, and yet we connect emotionally. 

We don't really go on dates anymore because of covid, but we cook together (or one cooks and lets the other taste their cooking), cuddle on the couch (and nobody pressures anyone about watching a show they like), run to each other and hug when the kids get to be too much to handle (and fantasize escaping to a deserted island 😆), and having playful laughter and flirting
throughout the day. Of course, lovemaking is right up there important. And we tell each other all our woes and victories about our jobs. 

We've been together for 15 years, and we were separated for 2 years but got back together. We've decided that we would make a daily effort to show how much we love each other, that it was up to us, and nobody else, to do this. 

Of course we still hit little bumps on the road, like an argument we had just now. He snapped at me. And I knew it was because he's very stressed about work. So I let him be because I know that soon, things will be ok again. 

Bottom line, your wife needs you to know that you're in love with her through the little everyday things that aren't so little, really. They matter, and a marriage needs that to thrive. No need to go out, go on a getaway, or buy her gifts. Nope. It's being there for her everyday as only a husband could.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

By the way, we've slept in separate bedrooms for 5 years now because he snores, too. At first I was scared it would diminish our connection, but it didn't. We're still as flirty and romantic as ever. I guess there are underlying issues on why your relationship with your wife has come to this. Hope the marriage can still be saved.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I hit the separate bedrooms line at the end and it was like a record scratching noise went off in my head. I can see for medical reasons or sanity reasons doing it but if it’s just a pure relationship thing and my wife suggested it I would have one foot out the door.

Having good open communication with your wife is critical. If you know there is a problem but you don’t know how to fix it then trust her and talk with her about it.


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## serenity1989 (Sep 17, 2020)

I think you should see a psychologist first. Do not visit a family psychologist, because until you solve your personal problem, you will still have a discount with your wife. Only after you solve your personal problems will you be able to establish a connection with your wife and friends. When my wife and I had problems, I tried to train more in the gym. It helped me think less about problems. After a couple of months, I started noticing results. In addition to the gym, I also found great tips on Skinny Yoked on how to gain more muscle. Therefore, if you are fighting with your wife, try to get out all the and anger in the right direction, for example, in sports.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

DennisW said:


> Trying to catch up (I thought I replied here, but not seeing it.
> 
> I think she needed stability and we both needed companionship. Not enough to lean on at our current stage.


Women very often marry a man to replace her father - to provide that safety and stability. But women grow up, mature, and no longer need that safety net. If you can figure out what you can NOW provide in her life, you may have a chance. But that requires real conversations. I second the notion of putting the kids to sleep, opening a bottle of wine, and just talking and listening.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Separate beds, can't discuss differences in views, she openly wants to bang other men.....


You are done and have been for some time. You just don't realize it for some reason.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Separate beds, can't discuss differences in views, she openly wants to bang other men.....
> 
> 
> You are done and have been for some time. You just don't realize it for some reason.


The point at which I started thinking about other men was the point the bond with my ex was broken.

Most women who are bonded to a man aren't actively think about sleeping with others.


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