# The marital life of one engineer



## scienist2

Hi folks,

I would like to ask for an independent review of my marital life.

I am writing this post with steady hand and exhausted soul. My wife's tender but hardened heart has drained my deep love in the past six months. Whatever the future holds, I am sure I or she can face it alone. This forum and time have been a big help.

I made the mistake of taking a job elsewhere a year ago. I was wrongly convinced that our agreement was that my wife would move with me a few months later, just to get enough time to wrap her job. I was wrong. Luckily, after a few months, I was able to get another job in my field in the old city. That was a combination of luck and pulling all the string I could. I can certainly write more details about this but my idea was to move somewhere to work for a company that would secure us financially in the long-run in the volatile times.

That was five month of being apart, now together for six months. Things have somewhat stabilized to the unenviable status quo. Please read further for the most salient details:

• We do not sleep in the same bed (her decision).
• We visited a marriage counselor but my wife has been going there by herself since October or so. I have offered to go as well on multiple occasions.
• My wife keeps reading books on love, marriage, etc. The last one she bought is by Dr. Phil - Love Smart. She says that she cannot command her heart to forget and forgive me.
• We have not had sex in a very long time (>1/2 yr). There is no one else, we spend all our free time together at home or going out. Other than that, my wife has a full-time, very demanding job.
• I have read somewhere that marriage is a verb but we have not been doing much of the "marriage" stuff.
• We live in a nice state (say Washington state although you know it's not true) but my wife does not like it here much. The weather is too gloomy for her and such she'd like to join her sister in a much sunnier place (say somewhere in Florida).
• My wife is four years older than me and certainly much smarter. I married up. She is not only drop-dead gorgeous but also has a doctorate and is wicked smart and wise as an owl. She also has a strong vision for her life (bringing up kids close to her twin sister, climbing up the academic career).
• We have very similar spending habits. No issues on that front at all. We are both making reasonable salaries and keep out spending quite low (the house is paid off).
• After I returned home and started my new job, my wife asked me if I'd go with her to the dream city (in about a year) where her sister and husband were about to move. It is her twin sister and yes, they are very close.
• She says that she'd go even without a job and stay home for some time (with a kid I assume). I do not really want to move again and start over- new job, new people, new stores, doctors, … But I do not really have anyone else in life than her. The remainder of my broken  family is back in the heart of the Old World. Yes, you are right, I am very much at her mercy or her whim. Your pick.
• Fast forward two months (September)- her sister (not the twin) broke the news to her husband that she wants a divorce (two kids, ten years married). Family is in turmoil.
• Fast forward three more months- the twin sister is in the dream city while her husband is still trying to find a job (she moved first). Times are difficult for them. He wants to wait for a transfer within his company which might happen in the next five months. After telling her about this plan, the twin sister decided to separate from the guy. The family mood is bad.
• So here you have that- six months ago I was in the worst situation of the three guys, now I am the only one still "somewhat" living with the wife.
• Xmas time- by questioning the decision to uproot the remainder of the family (all but the twin live within three hours of us) and move to the "dream City", I was told to stop wasting her time. So now I have no choice? On the other hand, she'd move even without a job if I get a job as mentioned above.
• If you have not noticed yet, I am an engineer. I am currently employed by a well known lab, which entitles me to claim that my social and empathy-related skills are poor at best.

What the heck do I do now? I am lost. I do love my wife but I fear that the damage is simply irreparable at this point.


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## EleGirl

I remember your thread from a few months ago.


Your wife felt abandoned when you moved. So it seems that now she's saying that she does not trust you. But she wants to you get a job in "FL" so she can move there to be by her sister. And of course she might just stay home for a few years and LET you support her.

How is it marriage counseling if the two of you are not going? It might be helpful for you to get some individual counseling.

I think it's time for you to draw a line in the sand. Your wife is punishing you. My suggestion is that you tell your wife that you are not giving up yet another job for a wife who will not even sleep in the same bed with you, will not act like your wife in so many ways. If she wants you to go along with her scheme to move, she will need to forgive you for your move of the other job and start acting like a wife. After a year of marital recovery, you will consider moving to "FL". But she has to get a job there too. After all she's a PHD and should not let her education go to waste.


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## Iver

I'm not clear why your wife is angry at you. Is it because you moved for a job and expected her to follow? Or is something else is going on?


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## scienist2

EleGirl said:


> And of course she might just stay home for a few years and LET you support her.


Yes, this is exactly what I am worried about as well. Actually, I would be fine with her being home but what assurances do I have for the time when kids come? But I do not want to sound selfish, of course. Will I get the boot two years later? 

My wife frequently tells me that I have a "big heart". But the heart is just tired.



EleGirl said:


> I think it's time for you to draw a line in the sand. Your wife is punishing you. My suggestion is that you tell your wife that you are not giving up yet another job for a wife who will not even sleep in the same bed with you, will not act like your wife in so many ways. If she wants you to go along with her scheme to move, she will need to forgive you for your move of the other job and start acting like a wife. After a year of marital recovery, you will consider moving to "FL". But she has to get a job there too. After all she's a PHD and should not let her education go to waste.


These are some very good points. I am afraid that just muttering some of those could lead to "family divorce No. 3" though.


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## scienist2

Iver said:


> I'm not clear why your wife is angry at you. Is it because you moved for a job and expected her to follow? Or is something else is going on?


Yes, my first thread lists the causes and reasons. I took a job in a different city in a different state for broader family good. Yet the plan failed miserably. My wife blames me for leaving her for five months (four months when we include the couple weeks I spent working from home but that has little bearing).

She also blames me for wasting 10+k that I had to repay to the old company for breaking the contract. Now she wants the same money for her own spending. What do I care, it's just money.

Nothing else is going on I believe. But again, I am just a guy so much of the emotional current might go undetected.


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## EleGirl

You sound like a good guy. You don't deserve to be treated in this fashion. Often, to save a marriage we have to be willing to take the gamble of losing it.

IF you don't move with her and support her, while she enforces this broken marriage, you will end up with divorce #3 anyway.

If you move with her and support her, while she enforces this broken marriage, you will end up with divorce #3 anyway.

You might as well pick they manner that has a chance of giving you the marriage you want. And if it does not.. then the outcome will be the same as any other path you take.


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## Hicks

Seems like these girls were taught that marriage is disposable or something for their own personal convenience.


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## Married but Happy

scientist said:


> These are some very good points. I am afraid that just muttering some of those could lead to "family divorce No. 3" though.


And that may be the inevitable - and best - outcome. I fear she will use you to make the move, then divorce you once you are working, and claim alimony. A big win for her, and a big loss for you.

You are more articulate than many engineers, so I suspect you may be more socially savvy than most as well. However, you are also enmeshed in this FUBAR relationship, and may have difficulty seeing the forest for the trees. Make any decisions carefully, and take advantage of outside perspectives especially from people who know you and your wife personally.


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## toonaive

Going to agree in a way with elegirl. I think by moving you have fewer options and guarantees at this moment. Do not underestimate the value of having a job and support infrastructure in place where you are now now. A Divorce may be inevitable, but at least with those, you will have something to work with. I feel for you, I was in a similar situation 8 years ago, and yes, for the last 3 years in a protracted divorce. Not fun. 

You might want to take that point of view when making your decision. If a divorce is inevitable, where and how, do YOU want to be.


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## Married but Happy

toonaive said:


> If a divorce is inevitable, where and how, do YOU want to be.


And with that in mind, how do the laws differ in the states where you'd be residing if you move or don't? You may fare far better in a divorce in one state vs. the other, so it is worth a little research.


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## thenub

You could always tell her that you'd love to move to FLORIDA. As soon as she has a job there and buys a house for you to live in while SHE supports the household while you look for gainful employment.


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## toonaive

Or you move when you BOTH have good jobs.


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## Shoresofminnesota

Sounds similar to my story, I was away at work for 7 months and in that time my wife had an EA on Facebook, a friend of hers was divorcing her husband and her new toy from Florida was moving to Pennsylvania to be with her. Now my wife says she loves me but isnt in love with me.

We are reading Dr. Phils 'Relationship Rescue' and so far I have gotten some positive feedback from her. My strong belief or gut feeling is telling me my wife found this EA exciting and then seeing her friend getting a new toy and him moving, up and leaving his family sparked some fairytale fantasy in her mind. I suspect that is maybe what your wife is thinking seeing her sister divorcing and dreaming of what it may be like to be single. Just my two cents


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## Thor

What is YOUR vision? You say that your W has all kinds of strong ideas about what she wants, but what do YOU want? Where do you want to live, who do you want to work for, etc?

For cripes sakes don't get her pregnant! Make it your responsibility to prevent pregnancy. I think your W could easily try to use sex and a pregnancy to manage circumstances to get what she wants.

You should read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Doc R. Glover.

How is it that you believed you had an agreement she would move to follow you to your new job? If she is as direct and strong willed as you describe her, I cannot believe she never said clearly to you that she would not move. So how did that go down? How did you quit your job, pack your stuff, get in a car and drive away without her being clear and loud and direct with you that she was not going to follow you?

To save your marriage you have to be ready to end your marriage.


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## Chaparral

Someone here the other day said men get shafted in Florida divorce. Beware


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## Iver

Thor said:


> ...How is it that you believed you had an agreement she would move to follow you to your new job? If she is as direct and strong willed as you describe her, I cannot believe she never said clearly to you that she would not move. So how did that go down? How did you quit your job, pack your stuff, get in a car and drive away without her being clear and loud and direct with you that she was not going to follow you?


This is what I was wondering as well. How did you miscommunicate so badly?

What was agreed to before you drove off?


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## Chaparral

Iver said:


> This is what I was wondering as well. How did you miscommunicate so badly?
> 
> What was agreed to before you drove off?


Did you find out about her hurt feelings before or after you left? Exactly when did you out?

Have you checked credit card bills and phone/text records for the time you were gone to see who she was tallking to and where she was spending money?

This is important because your posts do not add up. Also, three sisters going through divorce at the same time is coincidence?


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## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> Someone here the other day said men get shafted in Florida divorce. Beware


As it stands right now:

*FLORIDA’S PERMANENT ALIMONY LAWS:*



Are among the most draconian and out-of-date in the country.
 

Allow for alimony to be paid for _life_. It’s called *Permanent Alimony*.
 

Are so famously skewed against men, and its laws so generous with permanent alimony, that some women move to Florida just to get divorced, and then afterwards, return to their home state.
 

Do not allow payers the ability to retire and have their payments lowered or ended without costly returns to court – even when the retirement is forced.
 

Dictate that payers must give up significant percentages of their pensions and/or Social Security, even to an ex who has his/her own pension and Social Security.
 

Allow second wives/husbands income to be used to upwardly modify the alimony payment of the first spouse.
 

Have no formula. Judges have arbitrary and unbridled discretion in ordering an amount and a duration to pay.
From www.floridaalimonyreform.com, red emphasis mine.


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## Youngster

Dude,
I'm an engineer as well and you need to take a step back and do an emotionally detached benefit/risk assessment. You need to treat this like any other engineering problem(heck, do a great big Visio flowchart  ).

Your marriage currently is broken and most outside observers would say you're heading for divorce. This move sounds like a setup to take you for all you're worth. 

Look at the facts;

No sex for over 6 months, sleeping in separate beds.
Resentment from her that she can't forgive/forget.
Sisters going through divorce.
MC that isn't working.
Wife is unhappy.

I'm sure your wife has spoken to her sister about divorce/alimony in FL in casual conversation. It sounds like she has checked out of the marriage. If she is as smart as you say, she has a plan going forward. Smart people don't run to the grocery store without a plan.....rest assured if she is thinking about something as important as divorce she has a plan.

You need to think about how you're going to deal with any stay/move and divorce/stay married scenario. Do what's best for you and protect yourself.


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## Happilymarried25

Your wife sounds like a selfish princess. I'm sure when you took the job she did agree to follow you otherwise I don't think you would have taken the job. Shame on her for not following you. She doesn't like committed to the marriage and I would not move for her because she doesn't like where you are living now. I think she is going to go the way of her two sisters.

My husband was offered a position 3 hours from us. It would be great for his career and our family, no more traveling, short commute, more money, a chance for advancement and less hours. I knew he wasn't happy at his current job. Did I want to leave my house of 23 years to live in an apartment in a different city? Did my daughter want to leave in the middle of her Junior year of high school? No, would my husband have turned down the job if I said I wasn't going to move? Yes, he wanted to be sure I was ok about moving before he excepted the job, but I could tell how excited he was about this job. I couldn't be selfish and just think about what will make me happy. He moved 4 months ago, visiting us on the weekends and I spent those months packing up the house and Christmas break our daughter and I moved here. My husband is enjoying his job, we are exploring our new town and we are together as a family and that's what's important.


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## scienist2

All replies have been very helpful, thank you all.



toonaive said:


> Going to agree in a way with elegirl. I think by moving you have fewer options and guarantees at this moment. Do not underestimate the value of having a job and support infrastructure in place where you are now now. A Divorce may be inevitable, but at least with those, you will have something to work with. I feel for you, I was in a similar situation 8 years ago, and yes, for the last 3 years in a protracted divorce. Not fun.
> 
> You might want to take that point of view when making your decision. If a divorce is inevitable, where and how, do YOU want to be.


If we move, then the move would happen within a year. People are consistent- and my wife is taking the time to think things through. But I fundamentally agree with you, the support infrastructure is critical. I have been reading the other thread (by Stillkindofhopefull - my mind is with him) and it would seem that once the decision is made, her family could turn away from me in the time of the greatest despair.

It is just extremely difficult to imagine that the lovely person who is my wife could be capable of causing such pain in the future. Sometimes I wish there were a magical pill to emotionally detach.


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## scienist2

toonaive said:


> Or you move when you BOTH have good jobs.


While a good point, this could be a pipe dream. There are few openings in our fields at any time and such it is likely that one or the other person would have to wait a bit for a good employment opportunity. But thank you for pointing this out, this would be typically the preferred way to go.


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## scienist2

Shoresofminnesota said:


> Sounds similar to my story, I was away at work for 7 months and in that time my wife had an EA on Facebook, a friend of hers was divorcing her husband and her new toy from Florida was moving to Pennsylvania to be with her. Now my wife says she loves me but isnt in love with me.
> 
> We are reading Dr. Phils 'Relationship Rescue' and so far I have gotten some positive feedback from her. My strong belief or gut feeling is telling me my wife found this EA exciting and then seeing her friend getting a new toy and him moving, up and leaving his family sparked some fairytale fantasy in her mind. I suspect that is maybe what your wife is thinking seeing her sister divorcing and dreaming of what it may be like to be single. Just my two cents


I wish you the best of luck. I do not suspect that there was any emotional affair on my wife's side though. There is no one else, and yes, I have briefly skimmed through her phone after I came back. Despicable but desperate me.

Despite the picture I have drawn, marriages and divorces are not taken lightly in this family. Still, I will wait before judging the two sisters.


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## scienist2

Chaparral said:


> Did you find out about her hurt feelings before or after you left? Exactly when did you out?
> 
> Have you checked credit card bills and phone/text records for the time you were gone to see who she was tallking to and where she was spending money?
> 
> This is important because your posts do not add up. Also, three sisters going through divorce at the same time is coincidence?


After I left. It took her a couple of months of loneliness in a blizzard-like environment last year to give up on our relationship. I started looking for the new job (that I currently have) three months into my soutwest journey.

Yes, we have access to all our bank accounts and credits cards. We do believe in financial transparency.


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## scienist2

Iver said:


> This is what I was wondering as well. How did you miscommunicate so badly?
> 
> What was agreed to before you drove off?


This is exactly the primary reason. Miscommunication. She had agreed to sell the house and follow. She also took me to a marriage counselor. And this is where things got difficult.

My old version: After I explained to the MC that a good career is important such that we have the money to create a stimulating environment for future kids to go to the college of their choosing (Ivy likely?), I sort of expected this matter to be closed. The MC did not seem to object to my arguments. Or I did not want to listen.

Her version: I did not give her any space or thought in my plans.

My new version: I behaved as a jerk despite my good long-term intentions.


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## scienist2

Youngster said:


> I'm sure your wife has spoken to her sister about divorce/alimony in FL in casual conversation. It sounds like she has checked out of the marriage. If she is as smart as you say, she has a plan going forward. Smart people don't run to the grocery store without a plan.....rest assured if she is thinking about something as important as divorce she has a plan.
> 
> You need to think about how you're going to deal with any stay/move and divorce/stay married scenario. Do what's best for you and protect yourself.


I fear you are right. I think both of us have two or more plans at this point. Visio chart might be useful to see a clear path forward. I need to give it some more time though.


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## scienist2

Thor said:


> What is YOUR vision? You say that your W has all kinds of strong ideas about what she wants, but what do YOU want? Where do you want to live, who do you want to work for, etc?


I have saved your post for the end.

My vision is to have a nice job and I do not care where. That's the benefit of having no family around on this continent. There are of course maybe ~20 major companies in the States which would fulfill me on the professional level. Yes, I am quite specialized in my fields. And heck, I spent a lot of time studying those.

My vision is also to have a loving and caring wife and a couple of kids for whom I could be a great husband and father.

My vision is to be a provider and servant for my family, someone who can be trusted and depended on.




Thor said:


> For cripes sakes don't get her pregnant! Make it your responsibility to prevent pregnancy. I think your W could easily try to use sex and a pregnancy to manage circumstances to get what she wants.


I think that one of the reasons we are not intimate is the she is off the pill. We discussed and briefly tried for kids before I took up the other job. I also think she is mature enough not to get pregnant until she knows if I am the right one for her.


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## Cooper

If your wife stated that she would follow in a few months after your initial career move and then she changed her mind I say shame on her. So ask her why that was OK but now her insisting you follow her is in any way fair. 

I'll tell you why; she has decided to move to where she wants even if you don't follow. 

Here's my educated guess and some historical background. Both her sisters have left their marriages recently, they have taken control of their lives and are going to live their dreams. Divorce is catchy, my ex and I had a large group of married friends, my ex left me for another man, and as quick as possible we divorced. That set off a chain reaction with our friends, it was like dominos, couple after couple breaking up, most initiated by the woman.

How do you save your marriage? Beats me, if you lay down and follow your wife where ever she will probably never respect you, I don't think she respects you now though so maybe a mute point.

All you can do is find out her goals and dreams and plans, if she uses terms like "we/us/together" you may have a chance, if her answers are all singular, as in "me/myself/I" you are out of the picture. Sorry but that's how I see it.


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## sidney2718

scientist said:


> This is exactly the primary reason. Miscommunication. She had agreed to sell the house and follow. She also took me to a marriage counselor. And this is where things got difficult.
> 
> My old version: After I explained to the MC that a good career is important such that we have the money to create a stimulating environment for future kids to go to the college of their choosing (Ivy likely?), I sort of expected this matter to be closed. The MC did not seem to object to my arguments. Or I did not want to listen.
> 
> Her version: I did not give her any space or thought in my plans.
> 
> My new version: I behaved as a jerk despite my good long-term intentions.


I do not understand the agreement or non-agreement to move away. Did she come out and say that she needed time to think about it? Did she register any complaint at the time? Perhaps she did. Men are notorious for not hearing subtle complaints. You have to settle this in your own mind.

The one thing I have not seen mentioned is the possibility of divorce. I gather that you do not wish to do this, but she is pushing you away. The cutting off of sex is the largest indicator. If she really wanted to leave you she'd divorce YOU and be done with it.

But that's not what she's doing. She wants to force YOU to do what she wants -- which is fine except for the likelihood that only one of you will find a job in the same geographic location.

I don't know if the two of you could work this out by sitting down like adults and discussing it. But the only way I know to fight the sex card is to play the divorce card. That will tell her that you are not kidding around and that the current stalemate has to end.

And yes, I'm still hung up on what actually happened when you two "agreed" that you should take the away-from-home job. She still owes you an explanation of why she did not make a fuss THEN.


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## Thor

Nucking Futs said:


> As it stands right now:
> 
> *FLORIDA’S PERMANENT ALIMONY LAWS:*
> 
> 
> 
> Are among the most draconian and out-of-date in the country.
> 
> 
> Allow for alimony to be paid for _life_. It’s called *Permanent Alimony*.
> 
> 
> Are so famously skewed against men, and its laws so generous with permanent alimony, that some women move to Florida just to get divorced, and then afterwards, return to their home state.
> 
> 
> Do not allow payers the ability to retire and have their payments lowered or ended without costly returns to court – even when the retirement is forced.
> 
> 
> Dictate that payers must give up significant percentages of their pensions and/or Social Security, even to an ex who has his/her own pension and Social Security.
> 
> 
> Allow second wives/husbands income to be used to upwardly modify the alimony payment of the first spouse.
> 
> 
> Have no formula. Judges have arbitrary and unbridled discretion in ordering an amount and a duration to pay.
> From www.floridaalimonyreform.com, red emphasis mine.


Scientist, pay attention to this. If your wife moves, I think you should immediately file for divorce in your own state. You should do your due diligence right now and research divorce where you live and where your wife is talking about moving to.


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## scienist2

sidney2718 said:


> I do not understand the agreement or non-agreement to move away. Did she come out and say that she needed time to think about it? Did she register any complaint at the time? Perhaps she did. Men are notorious for not hearing subtle complaints. You have to settle this in your own mind.


Oh yeah, I am a pretty selfish and miserable listener. Most likely she did but it did not go through. But why would we be prepping the house for sale in the first two months after I took the job (and flew home twice)? You're right, I need to figure this out myself.



sidney2718 said:


> The one thing I have not seen mentioned is the possibility of divorce. I gather that you do not wish to do this, but she is pushing you away. The cutting off of sex is the largest indicator. If she really wanted to leave you she'd divorce YOU and be done with it.
> 
> But that's not what she's doing. She wants to force YOU to do what she wants -- which is fine except for the likelihood that only one of you will find a job in the same geographic location.


Yup, I think that engineers are pretty good marriage material when it comes to house/IT maintenance and paycheck. Plus engineers are rather thrifty by nature (Engineers Explained).

But seriously, we have been talking about the move (she is set, as it seems, to go with or without me when I say, for example, let's go to a nicer place with more jobs such as Boston or the Bay area) and started prepping the house again. There is no reason pushing back on the house sale- she's the legal owner even though we paid it off after we got married.

This is so confusing- why would an educated and pretty woman want to be with a guy in a sexless marriage? Just because there is a potential of rebooting the marriage at some point? What if it does not?



sidney2718 said:


> I don't know if the two of you could work this out by sitting down like adults and discussing it. But the only way I know to fight the sex card is to play the divorce card. That will tell her that you are not kidding around and that the current stalemate has to end.
> 
> And yes, I'm still hung up on what actually happened when you two "agreed" that you should take the away-from-home job. She still owes you an explanation of why she did not make a fuss THEN.


She does. But I am not ready to discuss that yet. But will in a couple of months.


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## scienist2

Cooper said:


> How do you save your marriage? Beats me, if you lay down and follow your wife where ever she will probably never respect you, I don't think she respects you now though so maybe a mute point.
> 
> All you can do is find out her goals and dreams and plans, if she uses terms like "we/us/together" you may have a chance, if her answers are all singular, as in "me/myself/I" you are out of the picture. Sorry but that's how I see it.


I think I am still in the picture. We will move to XX, we will go see these people, we will prepare the house, we will go out for dinner. It's all we except the physical part :scratchhead:.


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## EleGirl

It will stay that way until you let her know that you will walk if she does not stop her tantrum and the marriage goes back on track.


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## Thor

scientist said:


> This is so confusing- why would an educated and pretty woman want to be with a guy in a sexless marriage? Just because there is a potential of rebooting the marriage at some point? What if it does not?


Your assumed initial conditions to the algorithm are incorrect. That is why you are confused. Correct your assumptions and the output will be correct.

When I was in school getting my EE degree, one of my professors always insisted we provide a SWAG before digging in with a sharp pencil. He would say to make an estimate and "put it in your back pocket". Then compare that to your calculated answer to check if you are in the right ballpark.

What you've got in your marriage is a real life answer which doesn't agree with your expectations.

In a quick glance back through the thread I didn't see if we discussed your wife's history. Is there any history of abuse as a child? Sex abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse? A parent who was an alcoholic or other drug abuse? A fundamentalist religious upbringing? Other traumas?

You can be assured that with _rare_ exception, women actually like sex as much as men. Maybe more! It is _abnormal_ for a woman to not desire sex frequently.


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## Married but Happy

Your marriage does not perform according to the design specifications. The design is flawed, the materials substandard, or the execution incompetent.


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## MEM2020

Scientist,

Your current mindset will prevent you from repairing the marriage. In short:
- You self describe as having weak interpersonal skills simply because you are a scientist. But my take on you is that your interpersonal skills are fine. 
- You have your wife on a pedestal - this creates a 'I'm lucky she is with me - Since she could easily do better' vibe. 

That wife worship subtext is a huge turnoff for most women. 

You two had a plan. She changed her mind without warning. And then punished you as if you had acted unilaterally. But you clearly didn't. 

Letting her hammer you because she suddenly changed her mind sends the message that:
- agreements don't matter
- reality is as she describes it - regardless of how that diverges from objective reality 
- she can ruthlessly punish you whenever she wants to for whatever reason - real or imagined - and you will just take it







scientist said:


> I think I am still in the picture. We will move to XX, we will go see these people, we will prepare the house, we will go out for dinner. It's all we except the physical part :scratchhead:.


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## jld

MEM11363 said:


> - You have your wife on a pedestal - this creates a 'I'm lucky she is with me - Since she could easily do better' vibe.
> 
> That wife worship subtext is a huge turnoff for most women.


MEM, what do you think the difference would be if you reversed the sexes?


----------



## MEM2020

JLD,
All I know is this - if both spouses believe that one of them is truly superior and the other by definition inferior - that is a dangerous dynamic. 

Being totally transparent - I believe this dynamic creates bigger issues when the worshipper is the male. 

And for clarity: worship is very different than love 

You can love someone a lot, even lot them more than they love you - without considering them superior to you. 





jld said:


> MEM, what do you think the difference would be if you reversed the sexes?


----------



## jld

Thanks for your response, MEM. I asked because I think a common theme throughout the length of my marriage has been the reverse of what you were saying to scientist. And I don't think it has ever been any kind of turnoff to Dug. But he does not feel himself superior to me, either.

I think some things are true for one sex only. But TAM often seems to want the sexes to be considered the same. Equal, equal. I just do not think it works that way.


----------



## tom67

Scientist people will treat you the way you allow them.
If you want to live in a sexless marriage that is your choice otherwise you have to start driving this ship as a doormat is not attractive at all.

You can't control her but you CAN control what you will or will not put up with.
If what you have been saying is true she is unfairly punishing you.
But you are letting it happen.


----------



## MEM2020

JLD,

So perhaps it is simplest to frame it like this: The really bad behavior emanates from the partner who believes they are superior. 

But Dug - he doesn't believe he is superior - hence he doesn't treat you badly. 

That said - most people are not Dug - most people if told (explicitly or implicitly) they are superior - start to believe it whether or not it is true. 

M2 has a bit of this foolishness - in some mental spreadsheet she has - I score more points. 








jld said:


> Thanks for your response, MEM. I asked because I think a common theme throughout the length of my marriage has been the reverse of what you were saying to scientist. And I don't think it has ever been any kind of turnoff to Dug. But he does not feel himself superior to me, either.
> 
> I think some things are true for one sex only. But TAM often seems to want the sexes to be considered the same. Equal, equal. I just do not think it works that way.


----------



## scienist2

An update-

Marital (equal to roommate in this particular case) life has very much stabilized. We still do not sleep together, my wife still wants to move to "Florida" to be close to her sister while having a baby and not working, but she has been better to me in the form of preparing dinners, calling me, and similar day-to-day activities.

However, I am concerned that she has been doing so for the wrong reason. To put it in perspective, both of her sisters are now getting a divorce. One husband does not want to sign the divorce papers since he does not want to shell out child support just yet (first he needs to pay a "radio ad lawyer") and the other husband asked his wife for "room and board" for the past year in their interim financial settlement since she was finishing her graduate school and five months after graduation- bam, she does not want to be with him anymore.

I, on the other, have never been focused too much on money. I guess I have been one of the lucky ones who do not gauge happiness by paycheck but rather life and work quality. So I let my wife spend some of my paycheck on her old student loans and give her all our dividends as extra "pocket money" (she has her own paycheck though), to make her feel appreciated and not guilty about spending a bit more on cosmetics or whatever is her fancy at the moment.

My concern is that she has been recovering the marital faith because of external factors, such as actions of the two other guys. This does not solve our problems, of course. These guys just made our case look relatively easier and more amicable.

So I am confused myself. I have decided not to leave for "Florida" since that would be a foolish career move, which in one sitting would destroy a) my future with a multinational company b) financial stability c) friend network d) the pride I have left.

I am not sure yet on how I will break the news... and if to expect tears and despair or a laugh and D. Oh well, how I'd LOVE to read my wife's mind. Maybe we could push off the move by a couple of years as a compromise.


----------



## EleGirl

Before you tell her that you will not move to FL, I think you need to get more of a handle on your finances. 

She has a paycheck. Do the two of you put all your money in one joint account and then you both spend?

Or does she keep her paycheck and then spend from yours as well?


----------



## MEM2020

Scientist.

This bit I will explain to you - as I believe your grasp of subtext is not yet well developed. 

Your messaging to your wife looks like this:
- My money is your money
- Your money is your money
- I'm perfectly ok with a sexless marriage 

Her messaging to you:
- I don't love you
- I want to move to Florida
- I will tolerate sex with you in order to get pregnant 
- Once pregnant I will immediately cease having sex with you
- I will tolerate a continuation of the marriage as long as you enable me to be a SAHM in (florida) a state where - if I tire of you - I can hammer you financially on the way out the door

One last point. When a young attractive wife totally shuts down sex with you - that doesn't mean they aren't having sex. 

In fact, I almost wonder If your wife started an affair when you moved for that new job. It would explain why she totally cut off sex upon your return. 

And FWIW: There is no waiting to be done here - she either actively works with you to repair the marriage ASAP - or she continues to exploit you financially. 

The longer you are sexless the less she will respect you....



scientist said:


> An update-
> 
> Marital (equal to roommate in this particular case) life has very much stabilized. We still do not sleep together, my wife still wants to move to "Florida" to be close to her sister while having a baby and not working, but she has been better to me in the form of preparing dinners, calling me, and similar day-to-day activities.
> 
> However, I am concerned that she has been doing so for the wrong reason. To put it in perspective, both of her sisters are now getting a divorce. One husband does not want to sign the divorce papers since he does not want to shell out child support just yet (first he needs to pay a "radio ad lawyer") and the other husband asked his wife for "room and board" for the past year in their interim financial settlement since she was finishing her graduate school and five months after graduation- bam, she does not want to be with him anymore.
> 
> I, on the other, have never been focused too much on money. I guess I have been one of the lucky ones who do not gauge happiness by paycheck but rather life and work quality. So I let my wife spend some of my paycheck on her old student loans and give her all our dividends as extra "pocket money" (she has her own paycheck though), to make her feel appreciated and not guilty about spending a bit more on cosmetics or whatever is her fancy at the moment.
> 
> My concern is that she has been recovering the marital faith because of external factors, such as actions of the two other guys. This does not solve our problems, of course. These guys just made our case look relatively easier and more amicable.
> 
> So I am confused myself. I have decided not to leave for "Florida" since that would be a foolish career move, which in one sitting would destroy a) my future with a multinational company b) financial stability c) friend network d) the pride I have left.
> 
> I am not sure yet on how I will break the news... and if to expect tears and despair or a laugh and D. Oh well, how I'd LOVE to read my wife's mind. Maybe we could push off the move by a couple of years as a compromise.


----------



## scienist2

EleGirl said:


> Before you tell her that you will not move to FL, I think you need to get more of a handle on your finances.
> 
> She has a paycheck. Do the two of you put all your money in one joint account and then you both spend?
> 
> Or does she keep her paycheck and then spend from yours as well?


Certainly agreed.

The situation is not as grim as it would seem. She sends a portion of her paycheck to our savings account and spends the rest on her running the household and some hobbies. Nothing over the board. I spend my paycheck on taxes, gasoline, energies, insurances, dining out, etc. The balance goes to the savings as well. We are good with money. Well balanced. None of us is a big spender.


----------



## sisters359

One point to reconsider: You said she might have objected to your earlier move and you "didn't listen." But, you argued for yourself, she was going through the motions of putting the house on the market. So she *must* have agreed with you, right?

If you were not listening and going ahead with the move, she may have felt she had no choice but to go through the motions--until she realized that she did, in fact, have a choice--to stand up for herself and the position she tried to get you to hear.

Too often, people assume agreement or consent when it has not been fully or even partially given. They then interpret everything through the lens of "so-and-so agreed. . ." Men (and women, I suspect), who have walk-away partners and/or seem to be blind-sided by their spouse's actions are often simply not paying attention. They think they have gotten what they wanted, and move on accordingly. When the partner pulls back, boom. Blindsided. 

Obviously, the two people in this situation aren't communicating very well, and both are responsible for that. The problems arise once the less-assertive partner becomes more assertive. 

Finally, let me ask you, scientist, how affectionate and attentive you have been with your wife. You seem very focused on career and future. She seems to have been, too. Have the two of you typically been kind, attentive, and engaged emotionally and intellectually with each other? Or were you on parallel paths that didn't really cross except for sex (when it was happening)? You sound like you have been generous financially--what about each of you being generous with your time and attention? If you are spending time together now, can you move to flirting, laughing together, connecting in ways that often lead couples to sex? 

The one thing that occurs to me is that if she has had sex with your out of a sense of responsibility, and you have been more of a taker than giver (not a criticism--you might not have realized it, which is something both of you would need to work on), then she may have developed an aversion to you. This is really, really hard to work through--but better to ask her if that is how she feels, and to know it, than to be fighting blind against something so difficult. 

Just some thoughts. You sound like a great guy struggling with the difficult challenges of marriages. You also sound up to the challenge, if that's what you choose to do. But it takes two to make it work--so I wish you luck, whatever you decide.


----------



## scienist2

MEM11363 said:


> Scientist.
> 
> This bit I will explain to you - as I believe your grasp of subtext is not yet well developed.
> 
> Your messaging to your wife looks like this:
> - My money is your money
> - Your money is your money
> - I'm perfectly ok with a sexless marriage
> 
> Her messaging to you:
> - I don't love you
> - I want to move to Florida
> - I will tolerate sex with you in order to get pregnant
> - Once pregnant I will immediately cease having sex with you
> - I will tolerate a continuation of the marriage as long as you enable me to be a SAHM in (florida) a state where - if I tire of you - I can hammer you financially on the way out the door
> 
> One last point. When a young attractive wife totally shuts down sex with you - that doesn't mean they aren't having sex.
> 
> In fact, I almost wonder If your wife started an affair when you moved for that new job. It would explain why she totally cut off sex upon your return.
> 
> And FWIW: There is no waiting to be done here - she either actively works with you to repair the marriage ASAP - or she continues to exploit you financially.
> 
> The longer you are sexless the less she will respect you....


Lot's of food for thought here.

Nonetheless, I think I can rule out the EA or PA since we are both LD. I mean it. Plus, there is virtually no time for EA or PA. My DW has a stressful but 8-5 job, besides that we spend all our time together. I have seen her email and phone logs some time back. Despicable of me but understandable under these circumstances.

And you can imagine that those family 'events' all around us in the past few months did not help mend our relationship but merely prolonged the status quo.

What I need to somehow find out is whether she would move to Florida with or without me.

One last thing- I have found that the longer I am in this mess the less willing I am to bend to her wishes. I fear that one day I will wake up and realize that I no longer hold deep feelings for my DW.


----------



## Chaparral

Why would your wife want to take you with her when she moves if she can't handle the two of you in the same bed. 

It doesn't matter what people say, its their actions you have to pay attention to.


----------



## scienist2

I have an update and a question for you folks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our relationship has improved a tad since my last post. We watch movies together, we laugh, we dine together, we support each other in daily activities, and the possibility of divorce does not seem to linger on the horizon anymore.

Yet… my wife still wants to sell the house. I think that today is the first time when she openly said that she needs her twin sister to be close. That they complete each other spiritually, seek each other's company, support each other, understand each other, miss each other, and otherwise need each other. Actually I think that my wife is the one who needs that sisterly connection more. The sister in Florida is now going through the process of finding a new boyfriend now. I sort of understand my wife's position. We have tough winters here, depression looms. She will go for a nice long visit in a couple of weeks to warm up her body and spirit.

My question is-- is this normal? Should not husbands come first? I would think that our families certainly form an important part of our lives but are not EVERYTHING in our lives. I love my family as well but I am married now, trying to make a decent living for my wife and myself. Why should I suffer the consequences of my DW's sister moving away? Am I way out of line here?


----------



## EleGirl

Yes a spouse should come first.

It is also true that for some, extended family it very important. 

A good balanced life includes both.

Have you been looking in FL to see if you can find a job in your career field?


----------



## Dyokemm

Monitor things closely here.

You have a M that is teetering on the brink, and she is going off to spend a couple of weeks with her sister who is in 'find a new boyfriend' mode, in the state where she says she wants to move.

This has potential disaster written all over it.

Be very aware of how she communicates with you while away and her attitude and behavior when she returns.

If she avoids talking to you and is back to being distant/disinterested when she returns....then start digging for info and facts about her activities and monitor her communications.

Do not confront until you find anything solid.

If this happens, and I certainly hope it does not, she may return home to entice you to help finance her move to FL with the intention of leaving you right after.


----------



## Chaparral

Buy a pen var from brick house security and put in her purse. This will tell you what she's telling her sister, etc. what is really on her mind.


----------



## MEM2020

She's not sleeping with you - that's a sign of a huge marital rift. Until you solve that - nothing else matters because a spouse can FAKE everything else. But it's very hard to fake THAT.




scientist said:


> I have an update and a question for you folks.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Our relationship has improved a tad since my last post. We watch movies together, we laugh, we dine together, we support each other in daily activities, and the possibility of divorce does not seem to linger on the horizon anymore.
> 
> Yet… my wife still wants to sell the house. I think that today is the first time when she openly said that she needs her twin sister to be close. That they complete each other spiritually, seek each other's company, support each other, understand each other, miss each other, and otherwise need each other. Actually I think that my wife is the one who needs that sisterly connection more. The sister in Florida is now going through the process of finding a new boyfriend now. I sort of understand my wife's position. We have tough winters here, depression looms. She will go for a nice long visit in a couple of weeks to warm up her body and spirit.
> 
> My question is-- is this normal? Should not husbands come first? I would think that our families certainly form an important part of our lives but are not EVERYTHING in our lives. I love my family as well but I am married now, trying to make a decent living for my wife and myself. Why should I suffer the consequences of my DW's sister moving away? Am I way out of line here?


----------



## Openminded

Yes, you should be first. But you aren't. The question is why. Is it the "twin bond". Or something else.


----------



## scienist2

EleGirl said:


> Yes a spouse should come first.
> 
> It is also true that for some, extended family it very important.
> 
> A good balanced life includes both.
> 
> Have you been looking in FL to see if you can find a job in your career field?


I most likely could find a decent employment opportunity. But I have a terrific job at the moment that many would die for. It provides a stable and high paycheck with tremendous career growth opportunities, which would translate to being able to choose almost *any* job in my field in a few years. If I change the job now or in the 12 months I'd (we'd lose) much in the long run. I am not a spring chicken anymore; it's time to put some critical thinking behind this decision.

I'd also hope that a week-long family vacation 2x a year plus holidays together would be a good bandaid for the next few years to come.


----------



## scienist2

Dyokemm said:


> Monitor things closely here.
> 
> You have a M that is teetering on the brink, and she is going off to spend a couple of weeks with her sister who is in 'find a new boyfriend' mode, in the state where she says she wants to move.
> 
> This has potential disaster written all over it.
> 
> Be very aware of how she communicates with you while away and her attitude and behavior when she returns.
> 
> If she avoids talking to you and is back to being distant/disinterested when she returns....then start digging for info and facts about her activities and monitor her communications.
> 
> Do not confront until you find anything solid.
> 
> If this happens, and I certainly hope it does not, she may return home to entice you to help finance her move to FL with the intention of leaving you right after.


That's good advice, thanks. Her trip could unfold many ways. We will see.


----------



## scienist2

MEM11363 said:


> She's not sleeping with you - that's a sign of a huge marital rift. Until you solve that - nothing else matters because a spouse can FAKE everything else. But it's very hard to fake THAT.


And this is why I am thinking about implementing a stopgap measure here. Sex + happy marriage + 1 year = move to Florida.


----------



## scienist2

Chaparral said:


> Buy a pen var from brick house security and put in her purse. This will tell you what she's telling her sister, etc. what is really on her mind.


Thank you for the advice but... I bought her a new designer bag instead.


----------



## scienist2

I have a question that has been torturing me internally---

At this point I do not think this marriage has a way of successfully moving forward without huge sacrifices on either side. That is either me giving up all I know or her giving up her sister who is not willing to move back here. No wonder, the sister is now trying to rebuild her own personal life since she is divorcing her husband.

The question is on biological clock and babies. I married my wife knowing that she is older. But now I think I want out. She most likely does not know what she truly wants since she has been sleeping in a different room for almost a year now. By letting go I fear that it might be difficult for her to get pregnant later on with someone else.

Do you see this? The marriage is not going well and I still have concerns for my wife's well being even though she is not the one holding up the marriage deal currently. Confusing. :scratchhead:


----------



## LaundryMan

scientist said:


> I have a question that has been torturing me internally---
> 
> At this point I do not think this marriage has a way of successfully moving forward without huge sacrifices on either side. That is either me giving up all I know or her giving up her sister who is not willing to move back here. No wonder, the sister is now trying to rebuild her own personal life since she is divorcing her husband.
> 
> The question is on biological clock and babies. I married my wife knowing that she is older. But now I think I want out. She most likely does not know what she truly wants since she has been sleeping in a different room for almost a year now. By letting go I fear that it might be difficult for her to get pregnant later on with someone else.
> 
> Do you see this? The marriage is not going well and I still have concerns for my wife's well being even though she is not the one holding up the marriage deal currently. Confusing. :scratchhead:


Wait, are you saying you're considering staying because she wants a kid and you feel like you should be nice and give her one, because she's getting on in years?

If so, here is my opinion: NO. NO NO NO NO NONONONO. Kids ruin even fantastic marriages. They also make it much harder to leave an unhealthy situation. And they make a nice weapon for the manipulative to use against you.

If that's not what you're saying...you're just pointing out that you're being walked on and you still have feelings...welcome to the club. My marriage is arguably worse than yours (based on what I've read here, anyway) and my wife believes being married to a professional man gives her a lifelong entitlement to never work and to spend her days hanging around with drug dealers and unemployed ******** because "they have such interesting stories"...but I still love her and worry about her feelings. I'm beginning to think that never goes away. But you finally reach the point where you have to cut losses and walk. I'm getting very close to that point myself.


----------



## toonaive

NO! do not introduce children into a rocky marriage. It isnt fair to the child or either of you.


----------



## scienist2

> *toonaive *-- NO! do not introduce children into a rocky marriage. It isnt fair to the child or either of you.


I agree. I can see it everywhere around. Many of our friends are having kids and many marriages have deteriorated since. Hopefully that's just temporary for them.



> *LaundryMan *-- Wait, are you saying you're considering staying because she wants a kid and you feel like you should be nice and give her one, because she's getting on in years?


Yes, I guess I feel that I owe her something for having her spend her "best" years with me. Wow, that is crazy, isn't it?



> *LaundryMan *-- If so, here is my opinion: NO. NO NO NO NO NONONONO. Kids ruin even fantastic marriages. They also make it much harder to leave an unhealthy situation. And they make a nice weapon for the manipulative to use against you.


I see this all around. I have also started reading the No More Mr. Nice book. I was quite skeptical at first but eight of the ten or so characteristics were a perfect fit for me I kept on reading. I have lost of patience with my marriage after going through the bulk of the book.

Manipulation- that's exactly it. Where is the guarantee that my wife will stay with me after getting pregnant? Maybe for the money but she is more than capable of making her own money. After all, having >$100k as a couple is great but one can live on $40k just as well, perhaps just without the trappings of a typical american middle class family.



> *LaundryMan *-- If that's not what you're saying...you're just pointing out that you're being walked on and you still have feelings...welcome to the club. My marriage is arguably worse than yours (based on what I've read here, anyway) and my wife believes being married to a professional man gives her a lifelong entitlement to never work and to spend her days hanging around with drug dealers and unemployed ******** because "they have such interesting stories"...but I still love her and worry about her feelings. I'm beginning to think that never goes away. But you finally reach the point where you have to cut losses and walk. I'm getting very close to that point myself.


It's actually good to hear that folks around have similar issues. I have also seen your thread. Our situations are quite different but the results are not so dissimilar. I wish you all the best. The book I mention above has been a great help. While it may kill the marriage, it ought to help in the long run.


----------



## Chaparral

Your wife hasn't slept in your bed for a year? Why do you not understand what that means? She doesn't love you, she's not in love with you.

I take it you've made no improvements since your earlier posts?


----------



## ConanHub

Let the sisters marry each other. What a gene pool. Stop wasting your time with this mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

Scientist,

So you are taking the blame / responsibility for your wife falling out of love with you for no apparent reason? 

I have news for you. Your wife seriously doubted whether you were 'the right man' for her from the engagement forward. 

So all this angst over her reproductive window is misplaced. She may want a child but for a long time has questioned her decision to marry you. 

That doesn't make you 'less' of a person. Just not the right person for her.....




scientist said:


> I agree. I can see it everywhere around. Many of our friends are having kids and many marriages have deteriorated since. Hopefully that's just temporary for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I guess I feel that I owe her something for having her spend her "best" years with me. Wow, that is crazy, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> I see this all around. I have also started reading the No More Mr. Nice book. I was quite skeptical at first but eight of the ten or so characteristics were a perfect fit for me I kept on reading. I have lost of patience with my marriage after going through the bulk of the book.
> 
> Manipulation- that's exactly it. Where is the guarantee that my wife will stay with me after getting pregnant? Maybe for the money but she is more than capable of making her own money. After all, having >$100k as a couple is great but one can live on $40k just as well, perhaps just without the trappings of a typical american middle class family.
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually good to hear that folks around have similar issues. I have also seen your thread. Our situations are quite different but the results are not so dissimilar. I wish you all the best. The book I mention above has been a great help. While it may kill the marriage, it ought to help in the long run.


----------



## scatty

No kids. Unless you think a dsyfuctional upbringing is o.k. Start calculating your child support payments now.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I'm going to disagree slightly. I think it's very compassionate of you to consider her chance to have children. This is something I don't think men can fully understand. .... you can find a younger woman to have kids with but once her window is closed that's it. That tells me you're a decent guy.

Having said that, you know it's not a good situation to bring kids into, and she has just as much part in it. Like you said, she willingly married you even though she wasn't sure and has not exactly been putting a ton of effort toward the marriage, so that's on her.

I do think it's make a decision time. If you don't see this working out make a break, so you can both go on with your lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## scienist2

scatty said:


> No kids. Unless you think a dsyfuctional upbringing is o.k. Start calculating your child support payments now.


While it is sad, you are right 



MEM11363 said:


> Scientist,
> 
> So you are taking the blame / responsibility for your wife falling out of love with you for no apparent reason?
> 
> I have news for you. Your wife seriously doubted whether you were 'the right man' for her from the engagement forward.
> 
> So all this angst over her reproductive window is misplaced. She may want a child but for a long time has questioned her decision to marry you.
> 
> That doesn't make you 'less' of a person. Just not the right person for her.....


I guess so. I am not perfect, she is not perfect either. But we are fundamentally very compatible people. It's just... there is not much affection left and the external factors (such as moving, selling the house, recent divorces in the family) make the healing process almost impossible.

I am also thinking that if my wife really wanted to have a kid, she would have managed somehow. But it would seem that she is not certain that she wants to have a kid with me because she is unsure about the marriage, which makes her a very decent person. I would think that many women would get pregnant, move, and then ask for child support. How can one person be so noble? This is what attracts me to her so much. This "stability" and "willfulness".



ConanHub said:


> Let the sisters marry each other. What a gene pool. Stop wasting your time with this mess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess we will stop wasting each other's time soon. Not being sure whether to go see a marriage counselor (on her side) is a pretty solid sign, is it not?



Chaparral said:


> Your wife hasn't slept in your bed for a year? Why do you not understand what that means? She doesn't love you, she's not in love with you.
> 
> I take it you've made no improvements since your earlier posts?


See above, no improvements. I have read the No More Mr. Nice Guy book and tried to apply some of it to my situation. My fear is that my marriage belongs to the "too broken to fix" category.



lifeistooshort said:


> I'm going to disagree slightly. I think it's very compassionate of you to consider her chance to have children. This is something I don't think men can fully understand. .... you can find a younger woman to have kids with but once her window is closed that's it. That tells me you're a decent guy.
> 
> Having said that, you know it's not a good situation to bring kids into, and she has just as much part in it. Like you said, she willingly married you even though she wasn't sure and has not exactly been putting a ton of effort toward the marriage, so that's on her.
> 
> I do think it's make a decision time. If you don't see this working out make a break, so you can both go on with your lives.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I think that the decision time is coming. And I am scared like hell. She was the center of my world for five years since my family is in the Old World. And a separation/divorce would not be easy for her as well as she would lose the protection, companionship, the fallback person. Now I know why there are so many posts here on the forum.


----------



## MEM2020

This is where you have a compassionate conversation speaking the hard truth. 

The good news: You describe her as beautiful and very smart. She should be able to re pair fairly fast....





scientist said:


> While it is sad, you are right
> 
> 
> 
> I guess so. I am not perfect, she is not perfect either. But we are fundamentally very compatible people. It's just... there is not much affection left and the external factors (such as moving, selling the house, recent divorces in the family) make the healing process almost impossible.
> 
> I am also thinking that if my wife really wanted to have a kid, she would have managed somehow. But it would seem that she is not certain that she wants to have a kid with me because she is unsure about the marriage, which makes her a very decent person. I would think that many women would get pregnant, move, and then ask for child support. How can one person be so noble? This is what attracts me to her so much. This "stability" and "willfulness".
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we will stop wasting each other's time soon. Not being sure whether to go see a marriage counselor (on her side) is a pretty solid sign, is it not?
> 
> 
> 
> See above, no improvements. I have read the No More Mr. Nice Guy book and tried to apply some of it to my situation. My fear is that my marriage belongs to the "too broken to fix" category.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I think that the decision time is coming. And I am scared like hell. She was the center of my world for five years since my family is in the Old World. And a separation/divorce would not be easy for her as well as she would lose the protection, companionship, the fallback person. Now I know why there are so many posts here on the forum.


----------



## tech-novelist

scientist said:


> I have a question that has been torturing me internally---
> 
> At this point I do not think this marriage has a way of successfully moving forward without huge sacrifices on either side. That is either me giving up all I know or her giving up her sister who is not willing to move back here. No wonder, the sister is now trying to rebuild her own personal life since she is divorcing her husband.
> 
> The question is on biological clock and babies. I married my wife knowing that she is older. But now I think I want out. She most likely does not know what she truly wants since she has been sleeping in a different room for almost a year now. By letting go I fear that it might be difficult for her to get pregnant later on with someone else.
> 
> Do you see this? The marriage is not going well and I still have concerns for my wife's well being even though she is not the one holding up the marriage deal currently. Confusing. :scratchhead:


Whatever you do, 

DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT!!!!!!!!

I hope that is clear enough!


----------



## turnera

scientist said:


> I have a question that has been torturing me internally---
> 
> At this point I do not think this marriage has a way of successfully moving forward without huge sacrifices on either side. That is either me giving up all I know or her giving up her sister who is not willing to move back here. No wonder, the sister is now trying to rebuild her own personal life since she is divorcing her husband.
> 
> The question is on biological clock and babies. I married my wife knowing that she is older. But now I think I want out. She most likely does not know what she truly wants since she has been sleeping in a different room for almost a year now. By letting go I fear that it might be difficult for her to get pregnant later on with someone else.
> 
> Do you see this? The marriage is not going well and I still have concerns for my wife's well being even though she is not the one holding up the marriage deal currently. Confusing. :scratchhead:


Honestly, I don't understand why you want to be married to her. You're roommates, you are her convenience, and the only person she appears to love is her twin sister.

Find something better. And more compatible.


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## imtamnew

Don't have kids. Then you are trapped. 

Other people's broken marriages are not a good enough reason for you to put a pretence and remain miserable.


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## Nucking Futs

You're hearing that biological clock ticking way louder than she is. I can tell because she's making no effort to get pregnant. If she was worried about it either you or some other guy would be getting some action.


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## scienist2

All,

Thank you very much for your help in this journey. I have an update for you.

My wife told me that she wants to end the marriage. That does not mean an imminent divorce though. That too much has happened and she does not know how to regain the long lost affection towards me.

Although I had been preparing for this possibility (and was somewhat unknowingly steering the relationship towards this point by following No More Mr. Nice Guy tactics), I was hit really hard by this D-bomb. My wife seems adamant, which I guess is good in the long run. Despite all the setbacks I have realized how much I am still in love with her. But you know- when she told me, I was 95% shocked and worried and wanted to fix things and somehow I was 5% relieved. Over the past few days I have been feeling better although this situation is still not "comfortable". Not sure if it ever will be.

We are living in a house (as mentioned above) and she has not asked me to move out yet. Actually, our daily communication has improved. I take that as a sign that she has made a decision and we have now been downgraded to official "best friends".

What now? The house is on the market and she might move to "Florida" in a few months.

Is it normal to still plan family weekends, friend visits, etc. in this kind of situation?


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## turnera

If you still want her, I wouldn't. 

If you are ready to move on, go ahead, who cares?


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## imtamnew

This is imo for the best. Have a fresh start and a good life.


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## sisters359

I'm curious about the initial move b/c your wife seems to be so angry about that and the fallout.

Did you make that move knowing she was opposed to it-did you get a very reluctant agreement from her (given, probably, out of her exhaustion with trying to get you to understand her POV?) 

I wonder if you did this--ignored, basically, her opposition b/c your vision "overruled" whatever objections she had. If so, now she is mad b/c you made a huge mistake that cost money--but mostly because, for the umpteenth time, you ignored her input and possibly just wore her down as a way to "win" her approval.

I'm totally guessing here, but there is something about the way you have talked about this that makes me wonder if you have a pattern of being insensitive to her -- a pattern you might even be oblivious to, if you are not very empathetic. 

I had a boss like this--he would just keep presenting his case, ignoring observations or concerns from others, and then he would assume everyone agreed with him when we finally just quit wasting energy trying to get him to acknowledge (not fake acknowledge, but really acknowledge) our concerns. Sometimes he was right, sometimes he wasn't. But after a year or so, we just started meetings with, "Is this something you're going to do anyway, so we don't really need to discuss it?" It was a job, so each of us had the choice of staying or leaving. Being married to someone like that-who consistently ignores what is important to you--is pretty darn awful. 

If I am totally off the track, just ignore me. I do think, however, it would be helpful for your future to recognize how you interact if this might be a component of your personality. 

I'm not sure why you were opposed to her dream since you seem to have a good understanding of what it was--were you opposed b/c you felt threatened by her relationship with her sister? Worried about your own career with a move like she wanted? Convinced your plan was better? 

Not that it really matters. Two people deeply in love find a way to work through these things. It sounds like at least one of you--if not both--were more wedded to your personal vision than to the other person. That's not a criticism, either; it's just an observation. Again, take it or leave it. 

Good luck. And I mean that sincerely!


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## Youngster

OP,
Really the way your marriage was this is the best possible outcome. Speak with a lawyer, protect yourself and your assets. File for divorce ASAP before she moves to FL. Move on, there is a good woman out there waiting for you.


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## scienist2

sisters359 said:


> I'm curious about the initial move b/c your wife seems to be so angry about that and the fallout.
> 
> Did you make that move knowing she was opposed to it-did you get a very reluctant agreement from her (given, probably, out of her exhaustion with trying to get you to understand her POV?)
> 
> I wonder if you did this--ignored, basically, her opposition b/c your vision "overruled" whatever objections she had. If so, now she is mad b/c you made a huge mistake that cost money--but mostly because, for the umpteenth time, you ignored her input and possibly just wore her down as a way to "win" her approval.
> 
> I'm totally guessing here, but there is something about the way you have talked about this that makes me wonder if you have a pattern of being insensitive to her -- a pattern you might even be oblivious to, if you are not very empathetic.



I remember your post to the thread from some time ago. You are the voice of reason here.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

She did not initially agree but I thought I had her convinced to move. We were ready to sell the house, etc. But obviously she was not ready at all. She was just getting ready to make a move and emotionally detach. Now I understand what I did or respectively what I did not do. I did not listen to her. And we lost the marriage spark.

The ability to "listen" is quite new to me. For a long time I thought that being able to provide and entertain, to be nice to her family, and to plan nice memorable trips was enough. Live and learn!




sisters359 said:


> I'm not sure why you were opposed to her dream since you seem to have a good understanding of what it was--were you opposed b/c you felt threatened by her relationship with her sister? Worried about your own career with a move like she wanted? Convinced your plan was better?


There are a number of reasons for my opposition:

1) we have a terrific financial situation over here
2) most of her family is here
3) the sister who moved to Florida had just divorced her husband
4) the sister who moved to Florida does not have that great job
5) no sex, no intimacy, no good prospects

I guess I was not ready to make that leap of faith - and a lot of people here would not do so either I believe.

I still think that my plan is better. Not that is matters anymore. But seriously, she married me and I married her and not the sister. These "divided loyalties" were bugging me quite a bit.

Actually, I really like their plan- to have kids at the same time, to live close, to always have some family support, etc. But now it's too late I am afraid.

Distances in the US tend to make these life choices quite difficult. The Old World has it much easier for families to stay close together. My motherland takes less then five hours to cross!


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## scienist2

im_tam said:


> This is imo for the best. Have a fresh start and a good life.


I am beginning to think that too. Thank you.



Youngster said:


> OP,
> Really the way your marriage was this is the best possible outcome. Speak with a lawyer, protect yourself and your assets. File for divorce ASAP before she moves to FL. Move on, there is a good woman out there waiting for you.


Thanks for the advice. Why should I be the one who files for the divorce? She makes relatively comparable money.


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## Nucking Futs

scientist said:


> I am beginning to think that too. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. Why should I be the one who files for the divorce? She makes relatively comparable money.


As long as you're not letting her move to Florida and file there you're fine. If you let her establish herself in Florida while she's still married to you you're screwed, the legislature failed to pass alimony reform again this year.


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## Youngster

scientist said:


> I am beginning to think that too. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. Why should I be the one who files for the divorce? She makes relatively comparable money.


As NF said, if she files in FL you are screwed. If you file now you won't have to worry about that. 

Also, you need to speak with a lawyer and find out if there are any advantages if you file first. What happens if things become less than amicable? What happens if things turn nasty? Don't expect the divorce process to be rainbows, there will be hurt feelings on both sides.

I would ask you, knowing that your marriage is over, why wouldn't you want to file first? Why wouldn't you want to take control of your own destiny and move on with your life? There's a better relationship out there waiting for you but you aren't going to find it as long as you're in limbo with your current marriage.


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## lifeistooshort

He's not screwed in Fl, she makes almost as much as him and they have no kids. I divorced in fl and while I didn't ask for alimony my lawyer told me judges these days aren't that keen on it, and that was in 2005. Don't assume that because these laws are on the books every single guy is going to get screwed by them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Youngster

So you're saying if she quits her job, moves to FL, and files for divorce he'll have to pay no alimony?


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## Nucking Futs

lifeistooshort said:


> He's not screwed in Fl, she makes almost as much as him and they have no kids. I divorced in fl and while I didn't ask for alimony my lawyer told me judges these days aren't that keen on it, and that was in 2005. Don't assume that because these laws are on the books every single guy is going to get screwed by them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is foolish to disregard the plain letter of the law based on your single 10 year old experience.


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## lifeistooshort

Nucking Futs said:


> It is foolish to disregard the plain letter of the law based on your single 10 year old experience.


What are you basing your assumption that he's going to get screwed by a wife who makes as much money as him on besides scary things you hear about florida?


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## Nucking Futs

lifeistooshort said:


> What are you basing your assumption that he's going to get screwed by a wife who makes as much money as him on besides scary things you hear about florida?


I live in Florida. I've had 3 friends divorce within the last 4 years, all three are paying permanent alimony and got totally screwed on the assets. You made a point that judges didn't seem bound by the letter of the law when you got divorced. That goes both ways. Judges who exercise discretion tend to exercise it in a manner consistent with their own biases, and from what I've seen locally the judges are biased in favor of women.

Do you have any recent relevant experiences you'd like to share?


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## EleGirl

scientist said:


> Distances in the US tend to make these life choices quite difficult. The Old World has it much easier for families to stay close together. My motherland takes less then five hours to cross!


IF you think of the USA as each state being a country.. (It is after all a group of states that united), it's like western Europe and Eastern Europe combined.

So moving to FL is like moving from Denmark to Russia. Not exactly close or conducive to close family ties.


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## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> I live in Florida. I've had 3 friends divorce within the last 4 years, all three are paying permanent alimony and got totally screwed on the assets. You made a point that judges didn't seem bound by the letter of the law when you got divorced. That goes both ways. Judges who exercise discretion tend to exercise it in a manner consistent with their own biases, and from what I've seen locally the judges are biased in favor of women.
> 
> Do you have any recent relevant experiences you'd like to share?


He and his wife have not been married very long.
She earns as a good income. 

Both are good reasons why she probably will not get alimony.


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## lifeistooshort

Nucking Futs said:


> I live in Florida. I've had 3 friends divorce within the last 4 years, all three are paying permanent alimony and got totally screwed on the assets. You made a point that judges didn't seem bound by the letter of the law when you got divorced. That goes both ways. Judges who exercise discretion tend to exercise it in a manner consistent with their own biases, and from what I've seen locally the judges are biased in favor of women.
> 
> Do you have any recent relevant experiences you'd like to share?


I too live in Florida and have several girlfriends that were divorced here. None got alimony because they have their own good incomes. In the case of your friends, are you dealing with stay at home wives? Do any of the wives have comparable income and somehow screwed him with alimony anyway? Not child support, alimony.

I personally am not a big fan of alimony, especially permanent alimony, because I don't think anyone has an inherent right to be supported by someone else, but in the case of a wife who is in her 50's or 60's and hasn't worked in decades it may be proper. I don't see how it's applicable here. 

If you don't want to risk paying alimony don't support a stay at home spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Youngster

Bottom line is that no one here knows for sure. The OP needs to see an attorney ASAP so he can protect himself. The OP's wife needs to see an attorney ASAP so she can protect herself.


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## EleGirl

scientist said:


> Thanks for the advice. Why should I be the one who files for the divorce? She makes relatively comparable money.


If you wait for her to file for divorce, you are on her time table.

She could do things like drive up bills during her move. In a divorce you are liable for half of them.

Does she have a job lined up for her move to FL? If not you will be liable for supporting her. She can file for divorce from Florida once she's been there a while. And get a court order for interim alimony and not have to work until the divorce is final. The court could award her 50% of YOUR income. Divorces can take a long time 1,2, 3 years.

One of my SIL's did this. She strung my bother along for 3 years, getting half his income. And this was after she drove him out of the house.


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## scienist2

Thank you all for your viewpoints, I have thought about them quite a bit. I truly believe that there are many relationships out there that quickly turn uncivil and possibly hostile during divorce.

She has my total trust in terms of finances. We have been very transparent to each other the whole time... and for some reason I think that we do still do love each other so I do not expect a major problem here.

Lot of good advice about Florida. But that is not really the state she plans to go to- I just do not want all the details to be here in case someone dear to us comes across this thread. It is much more difficult to obtain permanent alimony in the state where the sister currently resides.

My wife is extremely meticulous and will not move until she finds a different job. This could be soon due to her great interpersonal and professional skills, her great education, and a history of excellence with previous employers. Sometimes I wonder if maintaining all these professional relationships took a toll at our marriage.

I think we will split the money for the moment, figure out the house situation, and deal with the divorce a bit later. We both understand that money is what can easily sour the ending relationship. Also, figuring out the money situation in the coming days should hopefully ease the rest of the process as we do not have any kids or any other "permanent" commitments.

But... I have taken a number of years of her life, she has taught me much, she has grounded me, supported me and accommodated me in many ways which I have not always reciprocated due to my immaturity. A good ending is the least I can do to leave with honor and dignity. I do plan to be fair with squaring out our finances.



EleGirl said:


> If you wait for her to file for divorce, you are on her time table.
> 
> She could do things like drive up bills during her move. In a divorce you are liable for half of them.
> 
> Does she have a job lined up for her move to FL? If not you will be liable for supporting her. She can file for divorce from Florida once she's been there a while. And get a court order for interim alimony and not have to work until the divorce is final. The court could award her 50% of YOUR income. Divorces can take a long time 1,2, 3 years.
> 
> One of my SIL's did this. She strung my bother along for 3 years, getting half his income. And this was after she drove him out of the house.


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## scienist2

Update:

So it would seem that this marriage is truly over. She says that I am a great guy... but the relationship does not go anywhere. Apparently I did not pick up on many signs over the past ten months. Apparently I prioritize my work and grad school over wife. I was supposed to push for marriage counseling- I did offer many times to go to our counselor but apparently I should selected a new one. Seriously, there are times when I wish I could read her mind.

Over the past few days I have been realizing how my leaving for another job in the other state was harmful to the relationship. I sleep in our bedroom (offered to sleep elsewhere of course) and there is this door chain that I installed before I took up the job. At that point I hoped that the house would be gone in a few months... but the real story is obviously different. In any case, I cried my eyes out yesterday night when looking at the door chain, realizing how lonely she must have been alone (with the cat) in the house. She must have been scared at nights. Just now I have been realizing little things like this that keep making me feel just awful. I am apparently not a very emphatic person.

We won't do marriage counseling anymore as she has made up her mind and wants to go live with her sister, even though it's confusing for her as well. I think she will move in about a month. I will stay behind to take care of the house and make sure it sells. While she owns most of the house (she bought it before the marriage) I do not mind staying in here for now. It will be cheaper than staying in an apartment.

I will have an individual counseling session later this week; I am not sure what to expect.

The next few weeks will be tough. Living with my DW, having feelings for her knowing that she does reciprocate those, knowing that she will be gone in a bit. It's like this prolonged agony. As she says- hopefully we will stay friends. She does want to keep old photo albums and keepsakes from vacations but I do not place much hope in that.

I guess that you folks were right- she loves me but is not in love with me anymore.

I signed up for company gym today. The past eight nights have been tough. It is my hope that physical exhaustion will help me sleep.

Folks, thanks for reading and posting. Often times I cannot fall sleep at night. The moment I close my eyes I think of my wife and the life we could have had. Reading stories on TAM helps me tremendously because of the sense of community.


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## EleGirl

I'm sorry that things did not work out. It will take time but you will be ok.

I think that it's profoundly unfair that your wife apparently expected you to guess the right things or read her mind.


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## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry that things did not work out. It will take time but you will be ok.
> 
> I think that it's profoundly unfair that your wife apparently expected you to guess the right things or read her mind.


Lol, aren't all husbands expected to read their wife's mind?


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## scienist2

Is this typical behavior of a wife who has checked out?

She wants me to keep the house nice and clean since she is moving to "dream city" 2000 miles away to live with her sister and the house is on the market (she is the sole owner).
She found a new job there.
She does not want to be touched.
She does not want to talk about feelings.
She plans her time without me but at least tells me what time she will be home in the evenings.
She is asking nicely if she can take the blue-ray player with her and the shredder.
She would like to stay friends after the move but is not sure if I can hold up the deal.
She tells me that I should be the one supporting her emotionally because she needs to fix up her life pronto... because the biological clock is ticking loud.


The last statement just makes me feel like WTF? (sorry for the bad words).


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## turnera

What are you...her dog?


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## Openminded

If the two of you are going your separate ways (and you've been headed in that direction for some time) then why would you be touching her or wanting to discuss feelings? That's over and done with at this point. However, it sounds like she does want emotional support from you -- which most divorcing people would find difficult to give. When she makes a request you feel is unreasonable, tell her so. Unraveling a marriage is difficult and it doesn't sound like she's doing too much to make it easier. But then again most people don't. She's focused on life after you so you need to focus on life after her.


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## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> Lol, aren't all husbands expected to read their wife's mind?


Not really any more than most wives are expected to read their husband's minds.


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## EleGirl

scientist said:


> Is this typical behavior of a wife who has checked out?
> 
> She wants me to keep the house nice and clean since she is moving to "dream city" 2000 miles away to live with her sister and the house is on the market (she is the sole owner).
> She found a new job there.
> She does not want to be touched.
> She does not want to talk about feelings.
> She plans her time without me but at least tells me what time she will be home in the evenings.
> She is asking nicely if she can take the blue-ray player with her and the shredder.
> She would like to stay friends after the move but is not sure if I can hold up the deal.
> She tells me that I should be the one supporting her emotionally because she needs to fix up her life pronto... because the biological clock is ticking loud.
> 
> 
> The last statement just makes me feel like WTF? (sorry for the bad words).


LOL.. your wife is clueless. The world does not revolve around her. I think she's about to find that out.

By the way, how long have you two been married? How much equity has the house accrued since you married? That equity is 50% yours in most states. Have you talked to a lawyer about that? After all if you are expected to take care of it like it's your own.. you should get some compensation.

If you don't have any equity in the house, why not just move and let her deal with it? 

Who is paying the mortgage right now? Who will pay it if it's still not sold after she leaves?


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## convert

EleGirl said:


> Not really any more than most wives are expected to read their husband's minds.


very true, but some would it is so much easier reading a guys mind>


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## jorgegene

"I guess that you folks were right- she loves me but is not in love with me anymore."

I'm late to this party and didn't read the entire thread or the previous thread, but this whole thing just doesn't jive.

You left her for five months to pursue another job presumably for family interest, but maybe it was really more for yourself?

sorry. i don't buy this. Many people separate for a time and season. sometimes life throws us curves.
military people are deployed for months at a time. my dad was an engineer also and took jobs overseas many times, left my mom and us kids.
always provided and never cheated, but was away for months. my mom didn't like it, but a one time deal and divorce?????
doesn't jive.

ok, i know. that's water over the bridge. it's a done deal. but the above quote really struck me.
it's not about the moving. she just got tired of you. you're not exciting. your 'immature' in your own words.
still don't get exactly what that means. you put your career ahead of your wife? sorry to say; lots of men and women do that.
not good, but certainly repairable.

i think you've gotten a rotten deal. and maybe she's the more immature person in this relationship.
btw, a Phd doesn't make you a mature person by any stretch.
you're trying to make amends and she doesn't want to hear about it.

she just got bored of you and decided to be a walk away wife.


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## scienist2

EleGirl said:


> LOL.. your wife is clueless. The world does not revolve around her. I think she's about to find that out.


Experience is non-transferable. She had it good here. But I am sure the two sisters will justify their actions and support each other. In the end, this is their lifelong dream- to be close to each other. It's too bad that the dream execution resulted in two failed marriages. Many times I felt that I married both of them! But it has good sides (vacation friends, support network) and bad sides.



EleGirl said:


> By the way, how long have you two been married? How much equity has the house accrued since you married? That equity is 50% yours in most states. Have you talked to a lawyer about that? After all if you are expected to take care of it like it's your own.. you should get some compensation.
> 
> If you don't have any equity in the house, why not just move and let her deal with it?
> 
> Who is paying the mortgage right now? Who will pay it if it's still not sold after she leaves?


When I moved in, the house was about 50% paid off. We have been married for three years. One of the things I really wanted to do after the marriage was to pay off the house so I did. We paid it off more than a year ago. We have an agreement that she will get 75% of net while I get 25% of net once the house is sold.

Living in the house has an additional benefit for me- it's very cheap. Taxes and other expenses are below $600 per month. There are folks interested in the property so I might not have to stay here too long though.


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## scienist2

Openminded said:


> If the two of you are going your separate ways (and you've been headed in that direction for some time) then why would you be touching her or wanting to discuss feelings? That's over and done with at this point. However, it sounds like she does want emotional support from you -- which most divorcing people would find difficult to give. When she makes a request you feel is unreasonable, tell her so. Unraveling a marriage is difficult and it doesn't sound like she's doing too much to make it easier. But then again most people don't. She's focused on life after you so you need to focus on life after her.


Thanks for saying this straight out.

As with all situations, I have been trying to see the good coming out of all possible scenarios. With or without STBX. But there have some minor lapses... mostly due to her occasionally intoxicating presence (that's why I married her, right?). The emotional attachment typically grows stronger over weekends but wanes during workweek.

Fortunately this situation will last just a few more days. She will move to the new state in a couple of weeks but I will be out on a business travel starting next week. Quite honestly, I cannot wait to be alone. It's quite unsettling to be around her and having not much to say.


----------



## scienist2

turnera said:


> What are you...her dog?


Someone called this situation a "FUBAR" situation and there was a mention of not seeing the forest for the trees. Let me point out that things are much clearer now.

You know what, I am actually getting angry over this relationship. Sure I have made some mistakes. But I have never done anything too harmful to deserve this kind of treatment. The sooner this will end the better for my mental health.


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## morituri

Getting angry is good as long as it leads to positive actions like in your case, filing for divorce.


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## scienist2

morituri said:


> Getting angry is good as long as it leads to positive actions like in your case, filing for divorce.


Perhaps this is a silly questions but why should I be the one filing at the moment? She is not moving to a state where she can claim alimony with much success. The money is split, she will have a comparable job (if she did not move, she would have gotten a raise to $90k!), better education, the better car. 

Is your point that she will be able to file for divorce in her new state? I have checked the requirements, she will need to be the resident for at least 6 months. Provided she won't return to NY like I returned from AZ in those six months, I will file. My gut feeling is that if she feels like the separation is not going to end well, she will file remotely in NY where we both have residency.


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## morituri

Yes I know the devil is in the details but my point was not to define how you should proceed but the why you should use anger to your benefit. Your divorce attorney is the person you should use to develop a robust plan of action that will protect your rights.

My purpose on this thread is to help you with viewing reality from an impartial POV.



scientist said:


> Perhaps this is a silly questions but why should I be the one filing at the moment? She is not moving to a state where she can claim alimony with much success. The money is split, she will have a comparable job (if she did not move, she would have gotten a raise to $90k!), better education, the better car.
> 
> Is your point that she will be able to file for divorce in her new state? I have checked the requirements, she will need to be the resident for at least 6 months. Provided she won't return to NY like I returned from AZ in those six months, I will file. My gut feeling is that if she feels like the separation is not going to end well, she will file remotely in NY where we both have residency.


----------

