# Have you forgiven your spouse?



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!

Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I forgave her before she forgave herself

that said, forgive does not mean to accept


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I forgave him.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

Still too early to tell - 9 months into R, some days I feel confident we ll get over this and other days I could cheerfully end the marriage . I ve read a saying like that before and at the moment think it s easier said than done , However I know holding onto these feelings won t help in the long run - especially the feelings of hate I have to OW.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

I forgave her, but have a harder time forgiving myself.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

Dan F 

I may have missed earlier posts - but why forgive yourself?


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

ilovechocolate said:


> Dan F
> 
> I may have missed earlier posts - but why forgive yourself?


We both let our marriage go to Hell and we both cheated.
See my stories below.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

No, I immediately left.

It was a good thing too, he was abusive and a serial cheater.

I would never even put up with an emotional affair. I'm not that forgiving. It's not something I would do to hurt another either.

Even now that I'm totally in love with my husband. If he ever betrayed me, I'd never forgive him and leave. It's just who I am.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

We divorced a couple of months ago.

I can't honestly say that I've completely forgiven her. 

Part of the problem I have is that I still see some of her behaviors come through in her style of parenting and how it affects our children.

She never really took ownership of how she wrecked our marriage. If she were to ever sincerely acknowledge what happened - it would go a long way towards helping me reconcile my feelings towards her.

But still - being divorced - its easier to take the good and just walk away when it gets bad.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes but it was a struggle,it was completely out of charcter for her to do this.A 4 month long EA (even met him a few times in public places) the lies,the sneaking around all this while we we're in MC,I forgave only when she came out of her fog and realised the damage she did to me and our family but I will never forget and there will not be a second time,it hurts too much to go through it all again,its easier to walk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

No, I didn't.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I have forgiven her as well, though I did not reconcile with her.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

highwood said:


> For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!
> 
> Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


Sometimes a person's definition of forgiveness is off base and misses the point. In my view only God can forgive and forget at the same time, that is my theology. Humans can forgive but we do not forget.

Define what you see as forgiveness and perhaps the forum can assist you further. Often times we need to look at what forgiveness from a view of what it is not. 

Like Mortituri wrote: a person can forgive but it does not mean reconsiling with the person.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I used to watch Dr. Feel's show because it was good entertainment as a situation comedy.
His advice is every bit as good as anybodies. Some hits, some misses. But for him to insist that "every" offender requires forgiveness is a joke. Clearly his relationship with HIS wife is the only one he has ever had.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

highwood said:


> For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!
> 
> Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


You may still have unresolved questions. It has been hard for me to forgive because there has been a lingering attachment on his part to the affair fog mentality. He is only lately starting to realize that I was not the reason he chose betrayal, he was. It takes time to put something like this behind you. I have come to realize that letting my anger go is freeing me for other more important concerns, in any case it is a slow process and you must follow your own time frame. I think Dr Phil is a flaming quack, BTW.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

I have been struggling with this very issue for 8 months following discovery of my wife's 6-year long distance EA with a former boyfriend. Recently picked up the book "How Can I Forgive You," by Janis Spring (who also wrote "After the Affair," one of the first books I read after D-day). 

In it, she proposes that we don't need to forgive someone to be able to move on from a transgression. She suggests it's not a binary "forgive or don't forgive" type of question. 

Instead she suggests "acceptance" as a reasonable outcome from which a relationship can build. The notion being that we need to acknowledge a transgression occurred, understand it, and recognize it for what it is. She also helps you identify what you need from the transgressor that will help you reach acceptance, but ultimately, acceptance is more about you and your decision rather than forgiveness which is equally dependent on the behaviors and attitudes of both transgressor and transgressed.

Not finished with the book but so far it is helping me to see that I don't have to forgive (at least not yet) in order to move on in a healthy way with my wife.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

I too struggle with this...

In the beginning I did EVERYTHING wrong and on DDAY I was hell-bent to move out and be done and the second I saw him I instantly cried and begged him to never do it again and claimed to FORGIVE him and within one hour we were laying on the couch watching a movie as if nothing ever happened.

THEN the following years I dealt with, on my own in order to keep from pushing him away (haha bc we ended up with 2 more D-Days), depression and all kinds of "things" because I had said I forgave and I didn't feel anything in my heart that was forgiving. So I felt like a terrible human and Christian that I couldn't find it inside of me to forgive and forget.

Today we are working on R. I know most think I'm horrible for even considering R but this time I hope we are doing it the correct way and will have success. So when I find myself "forgiving" him I sort of freak out and think "wait that is what i did wrong the first time." That being said I KNOW for my own personality I will end up forgiving if we do stay married because I can't have this "cloud" hanging over my head for my entire life.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

When the WS is showing the remorse is real,the tears are real and you look into their eyes and see they are scared and know they really fvcked up bad,its kinda hurts if you dont forgive,that is if that person is deserving of your fogivness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't understand why the wife of my exH's friend took a severe dislike to me. In my exH's and MIL's opinion, she walked on water. To the point where, on one evening when my exH, her husband and a couple of other guys were out, she called me to tell me how much she disliked me.

I told my husband, had I known that sooner, I would not have wasted so much goodwill in trying to get along with her.

He asked me if I was capable of forgiving her. So I asked, if she was capable of forgiving me. He asked me for what? I said for whatever I did that motivated her to make that phone call to me.

He never brought up the issue of forgiving her again.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

Yes.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Not yet, its gonna be a while for that. Two steps forward, one step back. I'm doing my best to put one foot in front of the other to sort thru the lies he told and all the deciet. To me thats the hardest part. The lies they tell so they can get their 'fix'.

With a very very very close second hardest part being the thought of just how long I shared him with someone else...


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

No, I won’t ever forgive her. It’s seriously complex. This doesn’t mean I’ll go out and have affairs myself. It means I have to use her damage against her. 

I’ve been down this road before many years ago. If I forgive and let it be known, she forgets and feels forgiven. And given her self-centered ‘half-empty’ nature, it is not long at all before she feels a void in her that I’m not filling (and get blamed for). So....... I have to deal with reality. That reality is that she must feel there is a debt to be paid so she needs to “earn” positive feelings. This is the only reason she gives. It’s sad, but in her world, love or happiness or fun alone is not a motivator for her to maintain actions. She only takes action to earn those feelings. So, if she feels loved by me, she does nothing. If she wants to feel loved by me, she starts doing things to earn that love. It’s screwed up. You pretty much have to treat her poorly to get anything out of her. Treat her decently, with love, caring and kindness, and she’ll just demand more until you fail. She never appreciates what she has, only what she doesn’t have. Deny her security and she’ll try to earn it. Give her security, and she’ll find something else she things she thinks she deserves to have taking for granted and devaluing what she already has. 

I can’t change her. Only she can change herself. And she can’t see this in herself. Unfortunately, this basically means to have a positive relationship where we both give... I need to remind her of the debt. It looks nothing like forgiveness; I have to slap her in the face with her past to make sure she continues to try. Nothing else has worked. Someday, I forsee her leaving me... So, I also have to stay detached enough that it won’t hurt as much. It’s a sick world I live in... I do my best with what cards I’ve been dealt.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'll forgive my STBXW when she asks for it.

I don't believe in the "unforgiveness poisons your soul" crap. 

There are alot of people I have never forgiven (my mom for one) and I cannot say it has negatively impacted me.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

i forgave my wife 2 months after i found out...but im still mad as hell..the lies is what pisses me off the most


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

D-day occurred on 12/3/11 and we'll be divorced in approximately three weeks (she filed.) The night that I found the 200-plus pages of gory details of her two-year EA/PA on her thumb drive, I called and told her not to come home because I would kill her. Luckily for her (and me) she stayed away until the next morning.

I broke all of the rules trying to get her to stay. She finally told me that she couldn't be the wife that I wanted her to be and moved out, leaving me with two teenagers, two dogs, and a guinea pig. I knew that once she moved out, the marriage was over but fortunately I found this site. I read the ShamWow monster thread and learned a lot of things, including the 180 and 'just let them go'. 

I have always been a positive person and devoured countless books and tapes on self-improvement over the years. This fact helped me greatly in the healing process. I also meditate for thirty minutes in the mornings and listen to a 'Deep Relaxing' audio program by hypnotist Paul McKenna. In addition, I've been working on myself so that I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

Because I love my children more than I dislike my STBXW, I think that I'm ready to forgive her. I see her as someone that's damaged, who made some really really bad decisions and, for our kids' sake, I wish happiness for us both going forward.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Nope. That's all I'll say about that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Simon Phoenix said:


> Nope. That's all I'll say about that...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


but do you want to? R U still together?


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Highwood, short answer is yes. But it took a long time and a lot of self examination for me. Forgiveness does not mean granting absolution for the offense against you. Read Janis Spring's book. It helped me a lot.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

While I understand why it happened, no I have not. 

I have not forgiven myself either. Maybe that is the deeper issue at hand.....:scratchhead:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

My Methodist pastor agreed with what was said on Dr. Phil. I was both "abandoned" and cheated on by a woman of wealth. Abandonment is one of the only acceptable biblical reasons for divorce. My pastor went on to say that forgiving was a natural part of the Christian recovery and grieving process and that in doing so, while still not being exempt from pain, would serve to further the healing process. He did add that while it was commendable to offer forgiveness, that I should never forget the pain that it caused me. STBXW has sparingly communicated by email(less than 5) for some 10 months, but has not offered to apologize nor asked for my forgiveness, but has only blatently stated that reconciliation is off the table and definitely not an option.

Conversely, I have both forgiven her and have asked for her forgiveness for any of my perceived transgressions. And for doing so, I feel like a much better man for it!


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

Good question.

I am definitely on the road to forgiving him, more so for mine and my children's sake than for his.

My mother in law is an example of someone who hasn't forgiven her ex husband for the terrible way he treated her, he was both abusive and unfaithful. She looks older than her years and still talks obsessively about all his wrong doings. She is still in so much pain after two decades.

I just think after a while it is wasted energy to focus on being angry and bitter. I agree that is serves a purpose for a while, to protect you. But as others have replied you don't have to forget what has happened and you don't have to stay together. You just find it in your heart to forgive so you can move on and let go of those bad feelings.

Jen


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

highwood said:


> For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!
> 
> Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


Highwood, I know how you feel 100%.

I felt a pressing need to forgive my OH in order to move forward. In retrospect I think we had a couple of "false forgivings" before I got to the point where I felt I had genuinely forgiven him for his EA.

What helped me a lot was time and counselling. I eventually got to a point where I UNDERSTOOD how it happened. That for my OH it was through his lack of boundaries. This helped me enormously because I started to feel some kind of peace through knowing that although his actions hurt me enormously, those actions were not motivated ever in any desire to hurt me. Yes they *did* hurt me but he did not set out to do that. 

That led to a sense of acceptance which is where my forgiveness lies. I ACCEPT it happened. That doesn't mean I have to ever like it. I eventually felt I had asked enough questions and understood enough to move forward.

I did also have to forgive myself; I realised a lot of my anger was actually directed at myself for putting myself in a position to trust him 100% and thus being such a bad judge of character to allow myself to get hurt so badly.

The resentment and bitterness takes an active effort to dismiss. Resentment is evil and changes nothing but eats away at YOU. I still get the odd wave of "what was he thinking?" and "how could he hurt me like that?" but I put it to one side as it doesn't help the "now" or offer anything constructive.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm not sure what forgiveness really means. I thought I forgave him the first two times but now I look back and realize I never trusted him again and I turned inward and our problems only got worse. So did I forgive him? CAn I forgive him this third time? He asked me if I thought I could forgive him this time even after he inflicted so much damage ? I told him yes if he actually went to IC and found out why he makes such desructive choices. But I don't know if I meant it. I don't know if I know what it means. Is there a difference between forgiveness and letting go of resentment for the transgressions?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If you folks can find forgiveness in your cheating spouse, more power to you.
Me? I have only recently began to forgive myself for being so damned stupid in not realizing what was going on for two decades.
There's not any question in my mind that I' now a "better man" by merely no longer having to provide for her.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

tobio said:


> Highwood, I know how you feel 100%.
> 
> I felt a pressing need to forgive my OH in order to move forward. In retrospect I think we had a couple of "false forgivings" before I got to the point where I felt I had genuinely forgiven him for his EA.
> 
> ...


Tobio, I get what you're saying 100%.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Forgiveness is a gift you should give only once. You better make damn sure it's worth it. Don't throw it around lightly, otherwise you are not curing your soul but just devaluing yourself.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I'll forgive my STBXW when she asks for it.
> 
> I don't believe in the "unforgiveness poisons your soul" crap.
> 
> There are alot of people I have never forgiven (my mom for one) and I cannot say it has negatively impacted me.


Bandit, you may not see the impact as negative, but do you see the impact?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

tobio said:


> Highwood, I know how you feel 100%.
> 
> I felt a pressing need to forgive my OH in order to move forward. In retrospect I think we had a couple of "false forgivings" before I got to the point where I felt I had genuinely forgiven him for his EA.
> 
> ...


That is what I struggle with both H and the MC said I should focus on what led him to go down that path. THe marriage was not good and I knew that..however it is like I am so focused on what he did that it is like I can't get past it..and ironically I am acting out in the same negative ways that led him, in his opinion, to being that unhappy that he was more vulnerable to having an EA.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

For me this process requires definition so here is what I've learned from different sources so far;

A: Forgiveness is to remove your (figurative) hands from the throat of the offender. (The Shack)

If this is forgiveness then my wife has been forgiven.

B: Resentment - to "re-feel" the harms done to me.

This one is an entirely different matter. My wife cheated on me before we were married. I figured it out after we were married and confronted her. While admitting part of it, she lied. Something inside seemed to know. In the end I was manipulated to marry someone I would have NEVER agreed to had the truth been known. In fact the relationship would have ended right there and then. Every few years thereafter I tried to address it. Her reactions were indignant. In me a part of me died every time "we" tried. In her words I was "sick" and to "get over it". It made me feel even worse.

Finally, many years later, I was prepared to leave her unless she honestly deal with her life changing choices. We, for the first time started to address all she'd done. Guess what? Yep, she lied again. We've finally worked through much of it but it took 37 years for me to get the truth. Well...did I? Actually I'm quite certain that I still don't have the full truth. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd done it other times either given her callous treatment of her first transgression. No doubt she'd be much smarter in her ability to hide it. Over 60% of infidelities go undiscovered.

I will forever resent having my life's choices taken away from me. I am fiercely independent and find no tolerance for people who feel entitled in any form especially when that entitlement involves even the slightest hint of taking another's choices from them. In fact, some day it may be our undoing. Still my life is empty without her. "The longer I wait, the farther I feel from you"...Dan Folgelberg. Some so personal I cannot share. They fill every feeling...every thought. How do you live with someone who finds it easy to lie to you for a lifetime? In her defense she's been an exemplary mother. Often in our lives she's been a passionate partner. Love making is often, even today, of an expression of love far beyond what one might expect from a "disinterested" partner. She loves me as she is able, of that I've not one doubt. Hardly of my ilk, still I'm convinced it is more than authentic. Our souls still meet in that one place as we share all of who we are. Dear God...she keeps my heart and soul in her captivity. Shall I live in such a state of nirvanna? Still, take what you want...you've no right to take me!

I will forever resent being with someone that I've never been able to really trust. You have no idea how this affects you over a lifetime. It subconsciously bleeds into every other aspect of your life. All music holds a different meaning and the words hit you like a train. I have 40 years of betrayal songs committed to memory. This is a direct outcome of her poor handling of this issue and she knows it. I never deserved any of this. I have always been an attendant boyfriend, lover, mate, husband, father, provider and most importantly...a friend. I have never betrayed her. She has never gone without in any form. She has always been treated as if she is THE single most important aspect of my life. Far more than she can say. Even today I know our kids come long before me. 

So, the question of forgiveness, at least for me, is an easy one given the definition above. The one whose life has been made most miserable by all of this is mine...not hers. But, the question of resentment still resides deep within me. Can I resolve it? In all honesty I don't believe so. Too many of my core beliefs have been violated and nothing more than the absolute minimum has been efforted to calm those feelings of violation.

I will continue to work on it until I feel that I just cannot let go of it. The process of understanding the cheater's mind has been my primary focus for the past 8-10 years now and I don't feel I'm any closer to "getting it". For the longest time I thought it was a fault in me. I still often do. In fact, what seems even more clear is that a cheater is, sadly, just a cheater. They really are deep down okay with what they've done. I'm firmly convinced that once they know how to deceive...they will forever be a deceiver. In the end I've seen nary a few who truly own 100% of their choices and behaviors and honestly expose themselves so that the offended party can actually say...OKAY, now how do I want to deal with this. ALL are so busy controlling the outcome so what's presented is a mere facsimile of the real truth.

In the end I will commit to making a choice...most importantly, it will be my choice!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

river rat said:


> Bandit, you may not see the impact as negative, but do you see the impact?


No impact on my wife. None that I can see. 

I forgave her the first time eighteen years ago. Like a previous poster said, that was a "gift" I gave her to save the relationship the first go 'round. Won't make that poor trade again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Yeah. It's not hard to forgive....but, I don't trust him anymore. Not b/c he screwed up, but b/c he won't own up to it. If he'd man up and be accountable, I'd consider trusting him again, but his denial means I just can't trust his judgement or subject myself to his recklessness.

I can forgive him betraying my trust -- after all, I chose to risk trusting him. Being tempted & even being selfish at my expense shows me that he's inconsiderate, but avoiding responsibility afterwards demonstrates lack of integrity. Caught red-handed and still pleading innocence? I'm disappointed. I understand what he did (the easy, convenient thing), but the aftermath means I can't count on him to clean up his own mess.

I read this on a poster once: "I'm mature enough to forgive you, but not stupid enough to trust you again." If he showed he wanted to be trustworthy, that would be different.


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

tobio said:


> Highwood, I know how you feel 100%.
> 
> I felt a pressing need to forgive my OH in order to move forward. In retrospect I think we had a couple of "false forgivings" before I got to the point where I felt I had genuinely forgiven him for his EA.
> 
> ...



I totally understand this and i hope one day i hope i will be able to forgive him again, however I felt that i have given my forgiveness last year when he walked out on me and the kids but now that he did it again im raging with anger and with murderous thoughts....so i would have to say NO, i haven't forgive him this time and with how im feeling right now im not sure if im capable of giving him that forgiveness (nor do i know if he deserved it). 

Maybe in time when im healing but at this stage i can't even forgive myself for putting me and the kids into this same situation again.


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

There is saying i heard a while ago 

"fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me"

That is exactly how i feel right now....im stupid enough to fall into the same trap twice....shame on me.


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## MmHo (Mar 29, 2012)

I have wanted to truly forgive my husband for all the emtional, verbal and physical abuse plus EA .... Oh and his alcohol problems he has put me through since we married in 2009. I cannot for the life of me understand why he would have wanted to do all this after telling me what a wonderful wife i am!! I have to say i am confused because forgiving him is not easy and he seems to think that these things happen so move on and get over it. He has an excuse for every episode....never his fault.... Thats when he.s not in denial of course..... Because none of the abuse happened... I made it all up!! I refuse to move back in until he gets help, but he isnt even going there.... Tells me i am the one with the problems! One minute he is loving next minute he is hateful, projecting all his stuff on to me. I have been in counselling for six months and it has made me realise i am not crazy, it has also given me back my self esteem and emotional strength..... And he's well aware of the change in me. As for forgiving him that is something he will have to prove that he is worthy of and i do not see it happening for a long time. I do love the good side of him but his nasty behaviour has made me sick to my stomach and very very sad. The trust has gone and i am more worried about being able to trust him again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

still working on the forgivness thing but having a little fun on the side - silly little things just to give me a buzz , H is one of keyholders to his work place - oops the main key must have fallen out of his pocket ( in a drain outside house) H is trying to put on weight (switched his whey powder for diet shakes) some may say petty but at the moment helping me to keep sane


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Not yet, he doesn't deserve forgiveness yet. He still only sees one transgression after numerous A's. In order for him to earn it, first myself and my children have to be in a better place, he doesn't get forgiven until we have healed, secondly he has to ask for it, and realize what he is getting forgiven for. IMHO, if he doesn't ask or know what he's being forgiven for, he doesn't need it.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

snap said:


> Forgiveness is a gift you should give only once. You better make damn sure it's worth it. Don't throw it around lightly, otherwise you are not curing your soul but just devaluing yourself.


:iagree:


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

DownUnder said:


> There is saying i heard a while ago
> 
> "fool me once, shame on you
> fool me twice, shame on me"
> ...


:iagree: I have not forgiven her and I don't think I ever will. Which is what I told her when we decided to split. I tried for 10+ months to R, but without the forgiveness in my heart, I just can't do it. She knew this happened to me before and was my deal-breaker. She did it anyway. In my mind, what she did is akin to committing murder (killed who I was, a good, trusting person, now replaced with a hurt, vengeful, mistrusting, suspicious, quick to judgment and anger, less-driven man), stealing from my child (the family unit he loves so much, his daddy living at home with him). While it may be unintentional, the result is the same and I do not forgive anything that negatively impacts my child, period. Just as I wouldn't forgive a drunk driver who 'accidentally' killed my child.

And I've forgiven myself for not forgiving... it is who I am. *

Maybe in 7-10 years when I stop having to pay her "maintenance" to live the lifestyle to which she became accustomed I will re-think it. Certainly not until.


* P.S.: I'm not saying I am proud of this, just admitting facts.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

ilovechocolate said:


> still working on the forgivness thing but having a little fun on the side - silly little things just to give me a buzz , H is one of keyholders to his work place - oops the main key must have fallen out of his pocket ( in a drain outside house) H is trying to put on weight (switched his whey powder for diet shakes) some may say petty but at the moment helping me to keep sane


If you are really doing those things, it isn't just petty, it is vindictive, passive aggressive, and immature. You really want to sabotage your partner in his efforts just so you can feel better that he betrayed you? Sorry, but IMO, you guys should not be together. Why don't you just talk to him about how you feel instead of sneakily messing with him? Of course, if you're just imagining these things and not doing them, then it is okay because we all imagine stuff, but acting on it is childish and counter-productive to the building of a stronger marriage.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

moxy said:


> If you are really doing those things, it isn't just petty, it is vindictive, passive aggressive, and immature. You really want to sabotage your partner in his efforts just so you can feel better that he betrayed you? Sorry, but IMO, you guys should not be together. Why don't you just talk to him about how you feel instead of sneakily messing with him? Of course, if you're just imagining these things and not doing them, then it is okay because we all imagine stuff, but acting on it is childish and counter-productive to the building of a stronger marriage.


Best I don t tell you what I did to his surround sound then . 


Why should nt I find a way of making myself feel better . Why should nt I get a bit of payback for what he did? This is the man who s suppose to protect me from pain not cause it? Why should nt I get a bit of revenge?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

ilovechocolate said:


> Best I don t tell you what I did to his surround sound then .
> 
> 
> Why should nt I find a way of making myself feel better . Why should nt I get a bit of payback for what he did? This is the man who s suppose to protect me from pain not cause it? Why should nt I get a bit of revenge?


Because you are CHOOSING to stay.....


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

I found a story on the net as to why revenge is a bad idea. The story made me chuckle but also has a good point to it:-

Tommy Nelson – Why Revenge is a Bad Idea « Go To The Hub

Jen


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I have forgiven him. I did that a long time ago and was liberating for me. Ultimately my Forgivness is what has enabled us to reconcile.
Now he just has to forgive himself
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> My Methodist pastor agreed with what was said on Dr. Phil. I was both "abandoned" and cheated on by a woman of wealth. Abandonment is one of the only acceptable biblical reasons for divorce. My pastor went on to say that forgiving was a natural part of the Christian recovery and grieving process and that in doing so, while still not being exempt from pain, would serve to further the healing process. He did add that while it was commendable to offer forgiveness, that I should never forget the pain that it caused me. STBXW has sparingly communicated by email(less than 5) for some 10 months, but has not offered to apologize nor asked for my forgiveness, but has only blatently stated that reconciliation is off the table and definitely not an option.
> 
> Conversely, I have both forgiven her and have asked for her forgiveness for any of my perceived transgressions. And for doing so, I feel like a much better man for it!


I wonder were in the Bible he got that from as I remember if the spouse has sex with some one else. See here

matt 19:9


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

And yes I have forgiven her. Not right away. Only after she deciede to change for the better. She came completely open in all her life phone/email/facebook/etc. We went through spritual and marriage help. 

I found that somethings in life are hard and it is so easy to take the easy path out. But I have find that you seem to remember the hard things life more than the other. Not everybody will be able to do this and I am not in your shoes but this is the way I am. I don't give up on something that is hard. And yes marriage/living with someone can be hard.

Heck life is hard and I refuse to give up on life!


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## Duddy (Apr 29, 2011)

I've worked with hundreds of individuals and couples facing the challenge of recovering from emotional and or sexual infidelity. 

In my experience working with these couples, forgiveness is absolutely critical for individual emotional health and well being. At the biological level this partly because staying angry, hurt and stressed can cause serious emotional and health problems over time. Stress chemicals (cortisol, adrenaline etc) are literally toxic. 

But it's effectively repairing the spiritual and emotional injury that can make a marriage stronger and healthier than it ever was before, when trust and a sense of emotional safety has been deeply wounded. 

Learning to give and receive emotional soothing and safety, putting each other and the marriage first among human relationships and setting up protective boundaries (affair proofing) in essence, rebuilding the love and trust again, really makes forgiveness something amazing to experience together as a couple.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

michzz said:


> I read this too and agree for the most part. But I keep feeling as though forgiveness, which I gave when I thought she was done with a one-time thing is not even possible for the in reality nine-year physical and emotional affair.
> 
> She used my "moving on" to go even deeper into deception for a long time.
> 
> ...


Acceptance? I see what you mean. Semantically, for me it's simply saying that I know that no matter how hard I was wanting to, I face head on that it happened and I had to find a way to deal with it to move myself and us forward. I guess it was a place to start releasing myself from resentment and saying to myself, "deal with it or you're going to lose the plot."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I dont think a person can forgive, until they are ready to.
I dont think they can control the resentment and anger, coupled with the extreme sense of loss of love and/or family.
Add kids to the mix and it makes for a long process.

Eventually, this anger and sadness lessens, and one begins to feel less attached and less concerned with their ex spouse.

This I believe is when one may be capable of forgiveness, because we all are fallible. 
But, just when you get to that point, she'll move another man into your old house..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sirdano said:


> I wonder were in the Bible he got that from as I remember if the spouse has sex with some one else. See here
> 
> Matt 19:9


*Biblical Grounds for Divorce:*

Sexual Immorality- Matthew 5:32, 19:9
Abandonment- --- 1 Corinthians 7:15


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If your view of forgiveness is that it is a gift to he/she who betrayed you, not a gift you give to yourself. 

If you view forgiveness and reconciliation is that they are Siamese joined at the hip. 

If this is how you define forgivenes, then I'm afraid that it is of little or no value to you.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't view forgiveness coupled with R so much. Staying together or not has little to do with forgiving.

Then again, I don't see that I *have* to forgive everyone as some soul-saving pursuit. There are people I never forgiven (very few), and I don't lose any sleep over it.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Forgiveness comes in three forms (for me):

1.False Forgiveness
2. Parital Forgiveness
3. Full Forgiveness

It is MY choice to forgive someone. I don't need to forgive someone to move on in my life or to heal. It's that person who must show worthy of being forgiven then I might choose to forgive them.

I've done the false forgivness (AKA premature forgiveness) and I find prematurely forgiving someone is more damaging than any other form of forgiving. That form of forgiving is what builds resentment, anger, depression and much more.

I also live by the saying (Gandhi) "No one can hurt me without my permission" so essentially I gave WS permission to hurt me and now I revoke that permission (as I see fit to do so) and though I have *not* forgiven him his infidelities against me yet (key word there **YET**) I and him are working on it.

Him - by showing through actions and words that he can be forgiven.
Me - by showing compassion and learning to forgive myself first.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It's still not clear to me what actually happens when you "forgive" someone. However, there still a couple of people who have done things I didn't like it and will therefore never get back into life.

As long as I can make that choice, I could forgive anybody then.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

I haven't and it is killing me. I want to forgive him, I do, but every time I think about it I just feel the anger, betrayal, etc all over again. I'm not even sure that what my husband did can be classified as infidelity...he sought out longish (20 minutes?) unnecessary conversation/interaction with another woman.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What is forgiveness?

For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.

But to others, myself included, forgiveness means to accept - not condone - that what was done cannot be undone and to make peace with it, NOT for the benefit of the offender but for the benefit of the offended. This type of forgiveness does not remove the consequences that would befall the offender.

People who subscribe to the former definition of forgiveness are unable to achieve it because it is an emotionally daunting task. It is also dependent on the offender showing true remorse to the offended for his/her transgression(s) which may or may not be present or ever will be.

But those of us who subscribe to the latter definition, forgiveness is an acknowledgement that no matter what the outcome of the situation with the offender is, that in order for us to move on with our lives is to *make the decision that anger and bitterness are the toxic twins that will forever follow us and poison our lives IF we consciously allow them to. Here, forgiveness is a conscious choice for the benefit of the offended, not the offender.*

I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And yes, I did forgive her because I subscribe to the latter definition of forgiveness.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Mark 11:25- "And when you stand and pray, forgive anything that you may have against anyone, so that your Father in heaven will forgive the wrongs which you have done."

I think that this sums up 'forgiveness' pretty well. It can be an exceedingly difficult task to perform, but the fruits of being able to forgive greatly reap the benefits of having a clear conscience alongside the blessings of the Heavenly Father.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I dunno. I don't feel bitterness about the people I never forgiven, I rarely ever think about them. I moved on, but per that definition it would mean they were actually forgiven?


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

highwood said:


> For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!
> 
> Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


Hell no, I have not forgiven her nor will I... I'm content to swallow the poison and make both of our lives hell.. It's just a matter of accepting this is the way it is going to be.. And for every miserable day I have, and we share.. she gets to know she is the root cause of it all.. You see I know she loves me, in spite of the fact that she was stupid, and I know it pains her to see me being so distant, not wanting to touch her, rejecting her at every turn etc.. and it pains me too.. but her more.. so in I'll ride it like this till the wheels fall off.. There is almost nothing worse than not giving a person that is really sincerely apologetic, guilty and hurt and really cares a chance to apologize.. For me to accept it would lessen her burden, nah... I'll just let her carry it and let it eat away at her too...


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Bandit said:


> Hell no, I have not forgiven her nor will I... I'm content to swallow the poison and make both of our lives hell.. It's just a matter of accepting this is the way it is going to be.. And for every miserable day I have, and we share.. she gets to know she is the root cause of it all.. You see I know she loves me, in spite of the fact that she was stupid, and I know it pains her to see me being so distant, not wanting to touch her, rejecting her at every turn etc.. and it pains me too.. but her more.. so in I'll ride it like this till the wheels fall off.. There is almost nothing worse than not giving a person that is really sincerely apologetic, guilty and hurt and really cares a chance to apologize.. For me to accept it would lessen her burden, nah... I'll just let her carry it and let it eat away at her too...


That's just sadistic. I feel sorry for your wife.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Forgiven * Reconciled * Moved on

In that order.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Bandit said:


> Hell no, I have not forgiven her nor will I... I'm content to swallow the poison and make both of our lives hell.. It's just a matter of accepting this is the way it is going to be.. And for every miserable day I have, and we share.. she gets to know she is the root cause of it all.. You see I know she loves me, in spite of the fact that she was stupid, and I know it pains her to see me being so distant, not wanting to touch her, rejecting her at every turn etc.. and it pains me too.. but her more.. so in I'll ride it like this till the wheels fall off.. There is almost nothing worse than not giving a person that is really sincerely apologetic, guilty and hurt and really cares a chance to apologize.. For me to accept it would lessen her burden, nah... I'll just let her carry it and let it eat away at her too...


You need help man. You only live once. Just because someone did something bad doesn't mean you ruin your life for it. She did a mistake. So you punish her by being passive aggressive? That is not life. And it is not the way to live. One day, you will be old and you will wonder what you did with your life..

Why not stay happy in the mean time?


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Complexity said:


> That's just sadistic. I feel sorry for your wife.


F" her she cheated.. No need to feel sorry for her.. I find it odd that you would feel sorry for the party deserving of punishment.. I can feel no more pity for her than I would for a murderer, rapist or thief..



warlock07 said:


> You need help man. You only live once. Just because someone did something bad doesn't mean you ruin your life for it.


Does her more damage than it does to me chief. Additionally, if you despise someone then you can actually find little bits of joy and add some meaning to your life making theirs hell.. 



warlock07 said:


> She did a mistake. So you punish her by being passive aggressive?


Mistake? really.. like forgetting to buy groceries?, or locking her keys in the car? No she embarked upon a deliberate, calculated and deceitful pattern of behavior. Not a mistake, and not an oops I just spilled my drink.. and I'm not passive aggressive I hide nothing and am overt about being pissed and or/being cold.



warlock07 said:


> Why not stay happy in the mean time? That is not life. And it is not the way to live. One day, you will be old and you will wonder what you did with your life..


If you accept the fact that life (in general) is not really a happy experience to begin with, but instead just a drudgery of work, sleep, bills and BS.. then it really makes no difference who your with as "happy" is not really an attainable reality regardless.

As for being old one day, well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.. Hell I might get plowed down by bus or struck by lighting tomorrow, who knows.. So sitting around fretting about what I will think when I get old sounds a bit stupid..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bandit said:


> Hell no, I have not forgiven her nor will I... I'm content to swallow the poison and make both of our lives hell.. It's just a matter of accepting this is the way it is going to be.. And for every miserable day I have, and we share.. she gets to know she is the root cause of it all.. You see I know she loves me, in spite of the fact that she was stupid, and I know it pains her to see me being so distant, not wanting to touch her, rejecting her at every turn etc.. and it pains me too.. but her more.. so in I'll ride it like this till the wheels fall off.. There is almost nothing worse than not giving a person that is really sincerely apologetic, guilty and hurt and really cares a chance to apologize.. For me to accept it would lessen her burden, nah... I'll just let her carry it and let it eat away at her too...


Bandit: I know how you must feel and given your situation, I can't really blame you for feeling the way that you do. We all get somewhat jaded in our feelings. Heck, I've got a rather well-to-do STBXW that is trying to bleed me dry of what little financial resources I have, and metaphorically, I don't really have a pot to pee in nor a window to throw it out of. But since forgiving her, I feel a lot better about myself, my relationship with my friends and family, and more especially God.

I was the exact same way as you are until I heard my pastor deliver a sermon earlier this year about "the power of forgiveness." In essence, if Christ could see fit to offer forgiveness to those who were killing Him on that cross, who am I not to forgive those who are committing far less heinous transgressions against me?

I had to do the "forgiveness 180!" But as my pastor told me, forgiving is never easy, it can be downright hard. But the rewards are that that cross is lifted off of me and for that, I feel so much better. And while forgiving is the Christian thing to do, I still don't have to forget what happened to me. My STBXW is still stewing in her juices, will not offer any reciprocity of forgiveness, and through her pre-nup, is only looking at protecting her wealth and attempting to recoup as much as she can from a poor man. I know that she can't win, so I just had to let it all go. And for that I feel so much better.

Take that approach, brother! I really think that it will make you feel much better also! You'll continue to stay in my prayers!


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## better than before (Aug 3, 2011)

I forgave my H like others before he forgave himself. I still think about it all a lot after almost 2 years post D day. The wounds have really healed, but they are still there. Our marriage is better and much stronger, but it is a process. I love him so much that forgiving him when he was truly sorry was the easy part of ordeal. I am not naive anymore, but I needed to grow up in that department.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I might be in the small minority here, but I find Bandit's attitude refreshing. If we had more BSs with that "take no sh*t" attitude, you would have alot fewer postings from forlorn BS and cuckolds on this site.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I might be in the small minority here, but I find Bandit's attitude refreshing. If we had more BSs with that "take no sh*t" attitude, you would have alot fewer postings from forlorn BS and cuckolds on this site.


That may be so, but he is nailing himself to the cross right along with her. I don't think of myself as taking sh!t but I am staying in this painful situation, but not because I want to, he is. It's like a prison guard who is so concerned that his prisoner not escape, that he has no life at all. He is actually giving over control of his life to punishing her for something that she can't change. No one can step back into yesterday and undo it. If he can't accept the fact that she is capable of doing what she has done, he needs to let her go, or leave. All either of them have any control over is the future. There is no future for him if he keeps wallowing in the past.


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## dazed/confused (Jan 18, 2012)

I have wrestled with this very question. I want her to admit to what she has done and never do it again. I want her to show me this of her own free will. Then I well forgive her. Just admit you did it. That's all I want to hear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't think that forgiveness in an option, nor is it truly possible.. I think that it is a 'word' that BS's use to lesson the pain upon themselves and give themselves a sense of moving forward or past the hurt.. In essence it is a self created stepping stone thrown out to create some sort of recognizable healing pattern or timeline from the mayhem. 

example. BS is hurt, mad, and probably a lot confused as this is the first time they have been blindsided by an issue such as this. They have no experience in dealing with this issue to fall back on and are pretty much a drift in a tide of emotion flailing to get back on solid ground with no idea of how to do it. 

From here (IMHO) there are two ways two get there.. 1) I can conjure up some sort of magical healing process.. lets forgive and put this in the past and move forward and talk it through and blah, blah... and build little bridges out of fallacy that can be used to get the BS back to land and put the hurt and all "behind them".. Which of course the WS is going to be all for (distancing themselves from the wreck of the Titanic and getting back to a 'normal life' where they can once again enjoy all the rewards of a relationship; support, love, conversation, companionship etc..) Never mind the fact that they were the one that steered the ship into an ice burg to begin with.. I think of it like this, the WS is the one that came up behind you and pushed you off the ship and into the water to drown (you don't know it was them but it was) and they are also the first to try and throw you a rope and be your savior when you find out, (saying it was an accident, I didnt mean too, oh let me help you, I'm so sorry, I don't know how I could have done that.. I'll be your hero and help you blah, blah...) It's like shooting your dog just so you can bandage the wound and feel like an animal rescuer. 

The other option (#2) instead of building up little mental check points or crutches that one can use to measure their progress towards healing, let the boat drift.. let the seas take it where it will. The entire time the BS and WS are isolated from land and forced to face the fact that they are adrift for one single inescapable reason..It is inevitable that the boat will come ashore at some point, and when it does there may only be one passenger but the issue will be dead.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Bandit said:


> I don't think that forgiveness in an option, nor is it truly possible.. I think that it is a 'word' that BS's use to lesson the pain upon themselves and give themselves a sense of moving forward or past the hurt.. In essence it is a self created stepping stone thrown out to create some sort of recognizable healing pattern or timeline from the mayhem.
> 
> example. BS is hurt, mad, and probably a lot confused as this is the first time they have been blindsided by an issue such as this. They have no experience in dealing with this issue to fall back on and are pretty much a drift in a tide of emotion flailing to get back on solid ground with no idea of how to do it.
> 
> ...


When something is dead it is usually buried. It gives me the creeps when people stuff dead animals so that others can see what mighty hunters they are. In a sense I think that this is what you are doing with your situation. Have you ever read Great Expectations? I believe that is the right book. In it there is an old lady in a tattered wedding dress that she continually wares. The house is still set up for a wedding that never occurred. The table is still set for guests, and the cake is moldering on the dusty table. She was jilted and she chose not to move on. I hope you can move on. I hope you can find what makes you content. Good luck to you


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I’ll never forgive her. To me, forgiveness means that I will no longer use this as part of my perspective of her or take actions/make decisions using this to influence those choices.

Sorry, but that switch is flipped in my head; The radar is, and will continue to monitor the situation. There is no ‘take back’ or removing it. I am simply forever more going to get uncomfortable with things she does because of this and react different than I would have before.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You are so addicted to your anger and bitterness that I must ask you, what are you going to do if your fix dies tomorrow?


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

morituri said:


> You are so addicted to your anger and bitterness that I must ask you, what are you going to do if your fix dies tomorrow?


fix? As in what would I do if I woke up not angry tomorrow? Not sure what your getting at, clarify a bit please.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Bandit said:


> fix? As in what would I do if I woke up not angry tomorrow? Not sure what your getting at, clarify a bit please.


I think he means your wife, possibly meaning what if she decides "The Hell with this" and leaves you and starts a new life and becomes happy, what will you do with all of your anger then....


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> I think he means your wife, meaning what if she decides "The Hell with this" and leaves you and starts a new life and becomes happy, what will you do with all of your anger then....


Not sure, but I imagine that is how folks find themselves buried in the everglades... "She leaves me to start a new life and become happy?", she does not deserve the privilege.. She mucks up the works, destroys everything and then gets to leave and go find her happiness because the consequences of her actions are to tough to deal with and affect her ability to enjoy life.. seems a bit one sided to me...My initial thought is that I would probably go "Level 5 and start skinning family pets".. but not sure.. there is a whole lot of mixed thought on that one, I suppose if that were to happen I would win... her quitting before me would prove that she was a worthless, and not deserving of either my love or my time and may take some of the sting off of her leaving... 

I don't know what it would be like to wake up not angry, not hurt.. It does not take to long for it to consume you and become you and you learn to become it as well.. (Geeky as it might sound it reminds me of the whole Star Wars thing- going over to the dark side, it becomes who you are) You know that feeling in your chest when you were a kid and knew you were going to get in trouble when you got home? It's like that times 50 and its there all the time, at times it makes you feel ill, but if you get mad enough or think enough mean ****, or act mean enough it goes away for a while.. so you just keep the anger and venom flowing to hold it back I guess. I don't know what it would be like to not have that, I honestly can't remember happy, so no great loss there...


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Forgiving isn't the same as telling someone that what they did is alright. Forgiving means letting the anger go and reconciling the hatred and bitterness in your heart. It is choosing to live a life where you don't wish the worst on the person who wronged you, and you don't waste your energy consumed by the past. 

I chose to forgive my ex because that's what I needed to do to truly move on. I haven't said to him, "I forgive you" because he hasn't asked for forgiveness, as he thinks he did nothing wrong. But I forgave the anger and bitterness because I can't live that way. And I won't ever forget the hurt he caused me and the pain my children and I went through. And it surely isn't okay, and I'll never respect him as I once did.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Bandit said:


> fix? As in what would I do if I woke up not angry tomorrow? Not sure what your getting at, clarify a bit please.


The source of your addiction is your wife. You have formed a dependency on her to provide you with the anger and bitterness that you have come to rely to make it on a daily basis. So what are you going to do when that source is no longer available to you through abandonment or death? Will you then try to replace her with another source to feed the anger and bitterness?


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Dont' really have the answer to that one yet... What ever will become of it all, it was not my undoing that got it here..I imagine that her leaving would probably provide plenty of fuel for my anger and bitterness as well..Can't really say what will go down in the future..although if I have to choose between the two emotions hurt and pissed, I'll take the latter 8 days a week..


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

No. I didn't and haven't forgiven my ex-. And I am unable to find a reason to.

What I have struggled with is getting over the anger of the way she dragged our marriage, and me, and our children (still to this day) through the mud. Had I found something like these forums 6+ years ago I would have understood how she viewed me and spared myself a most humiliating and destructive odyssey and I attempted to save a marriage that she had already long since thrown away.

The only forgiveness for her I can imagine involves the end of conscious functioning. Given the ramifications of that line of thought, I pour my energy to coping, healing, and seeking the revenge of having a great life without her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

morituri said:


> The source of your addiction is your wife. You have formed a dependency on her to provide you with the anger and bitterness that you have come to rely to make it on a daily basis. So what are you going to do when that source is no longer available to you through abandonment or death? Will you then try to replace her with another source to feed the anger and bitterness?


Bandit is a warrior. You, Mori, are a gentleman and scholar. Bandit is a tactical thinker, you are a strategic thinker. 

Bandit approaches his existence from a completely different angle than you... than most of us. Doesn't mean Bandit's way of looking at life is better or worse. Just different, and to some hard to swallow. I've known alot of guys like Bandit. They come across as crass, when in reality they are simply super-focused. Thats what empowers him to win in the cage or keep a bigger opponent from bashing his brains out. Bandit operates at a physical skill level that very few of us could comprehend. It takes an inborn mentality, an offensive and tactical way of thinking, to be able to do what he does. 

As for his wife, why does she stay with him? Has she asked for his forgiveness? I have not heard that. If he was that awful to her, why would she not cut her losses and leave? Maybe she's too codependent. Maybe she enjoys being mentally and emotionally dominated by him. There is some reason why she stays. Maybe Bandit can clarify.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Bandit is a warrior. You, Mori, are a gentleman and scholar. Bandit is a tactical thinker, you are a strategic thinker.
> 
> Bandit approaches his existence from a completely different angle than you... than most of us. Doesn't mean Bandit's way of looking at life is better or worse. Just different, and to some hard to swallow. I've known alot of guys like Bandit. They come across as crass, when in reality they are simply super-focused. Thats what empowers him to win in the cage or keep a bigger opponent from bashing his brains out. Bandit operates at a physical skill level that very few of us could comprehend. It takes an inborn mentality, an offensive and tactical way of thinking, to be able to do what he does.
> 
> As for his wife, why does she stay with him? Has she asked for his forgiveness? I have not heard that. If he was that awful to her, why would she not cut her losses and leave? Maybe she's too codependent. Maybe she enjoys being mentally and emotionally dominated by him. There is some reason why she stays. Maybe Bandit can clarify.


Very insightful! At first I thought you were talking about yourself in the third person :rofl: Made the post sound strange!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> Very insightful! At first I thought you were talking about yourself in the third person :rofl: Made the post sound strange!


No the other Bandit... the muscular, tough one. 

I'm the big, middle-aged dopey one.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

Am I really that "small"? Can there be nothing more of me? Where is the love I've declared? Where is the forgiveness that Jesus has gifted me? Where the Hell am I in all of this? 

No...I see how I am failing us. I see how she has done her part. I know...that I'll never know. Where do I end...and she begin? I surely know not.

Dear God...who do you think you are? To judge? To take someone so special for granted? That is what I'm doing...is it not? I have the right...do "I" not? "I" have what rights? No...I am merely a human and have nothing more than my creator gave me. I have no diminion over another. I just wish they'd have chosen my dominion over another's. Isn't that my most basic fault?


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

For me? Cheating is totally unforgivable. When people hurt you, sometimes there may be reasons you can understand their actions. eg: heat of the moment stuff. Something said or done that they truly regret soon after. But cheating rarely, if ever, fits this. 

Their actions are premeditated,cowardly and usually repeated many times over. And this is your spouse! Unforgivable IMHO.


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Man, I never even really looked at myself that way (referencing Bandit.45 comments). I'll do my best here to take some of the mystery out of my situation and provide a bit of background on myself so I don't come across crass (if that's how folks are seeing me). Hopefully that way folks will have some insight into where I am coming from. 

I'll start from the beginning I'm an only child, born in Athens Ga. Both of my parents were cops, mom worked for Clark County PD and my Dad was Chief Of Police (COP) for Bogart County. This was a different time where the COP was the LAW!, he was pretty much the judge, the jury and the executioner as well..To get an understanding you should listen to the song "Sheriff of Boone County" by Kenny Price. He was also a ****, abuser, and mentally unstable as well, I can remember numerous times where he beat my Mom.. (I mean beat, like a dog).. One time he handcuffed her and beat the **** out of her in the living room, then opened the fridge so fast it tore all the shelves out of the door..tons of stuff like that, always breaking stuff, tearing things apart, etc.

Discipline in the house (for me was strict as well) and usually consisted of a beating and then "work". ie. If I did something I was not supposed too; came home after dark, back talked, did not do a chore, got a bad grade etc.. I would get my ass kicked and then spend the next few hours or days (depending upon the severity of the offense) doing chain gain work like moving big piles of gravel from one end of the property to the other via 5 gallon bucket, digging holes and filling them up again, carrying logs from one end of the pasture to the other, digging post holes, etc..

Fast-->Forward to around 10 years of age.. My Ma, finally had enough and took me and tried to left, we basically went into hiding.. Dad tore up all her stuff, bleached her clothes, etc. etc.
I was enrolled me in a different school, and a few months later he found us (more specifically me) he came to school and picked me up (which he was allowed to do as he was my parent). He then kidnapped me and took me to Missouri where we lived with my Grandmother.. Wash, Rinse, Repeat, he gets married again, beats her as well, she in turn despises me and beats on me as well. 

Around this age 11-12 is also when I learned or figured out that I could fight, and could hurt people, not by choice but by necessity. This began with me getting my ass kicked, on a regular basis by a bully, (Sean Anderson -still remember his name) He was probably 15 and started beating the piss out of me whenever he got the chance (kicking, choking etc all stuff I could hide from my dad). It finally culminated when the kid came to my house knocked on the door and socked me in the eye when I opened the door (which left me a shiner that I could not hide). My Dad was pissed, not at him but at me for getting bullied, as he felt no kid of his that was worth an F should get bullied. So he began training me how to get angry, how to snap into a rage. He accomplished this by pushing me around, tossing **** at me, hitting me etc. and if I cried or cowered he would ramp it up and get more physical until the only recourse I had left was to get mad (fight or flight and flight was not an option). Fast forward to an eventual show down with the bully and I beat the hell out of him, bit him in the face, and ended his reign over me. The bad side, however, was I suddenly learned that in the eyes of other kids, I just became Joe Cool..so I started to be a bully, (not cool I know).. 
I also got involved in boxing around this point, as the powers that be felt it would be a good outlet for my energies.

-->Fast Forward to 15-->

My mom (who was remarried and living in Ky now) finally tracked us down (thank god) and got a court order for me to visit her during the summers (I had not been allowed to speak to her up to this point.) So first chance I got to visit I chose to stay there and not go back as I was at this point under the opinion that the grass must be greener on the other side. Come to find out, her new husband "Jimmy" also beat the hell out of her. Never could figure out my mom's obsession with picking guys that beat her. Anyway, he was not really much bigger than me and tried laying hands on me 'once' which ended badly for him, he also never layed hands on my mom again in front of me after that.. <<- Still Boxing->>-->Fast Forward another Year->>

My Mom was tired of his BS, and took me and we went back to Ga. and lived outside of Atlanta, in an area that most would consider to be the other side of the tracks. Got into a really gritty gym, lots of blacks, etc.. ended up winning my first GG Championship, got hooked in with the wrong crowd and started getting into more trouble (robberies, assaults, etc.).. Long story short at 17 got the choice from a judge at the behest of my recruiter (who was friends with my boxing coach, a former Marine himself, who wanted me to get on the Marine Boxing team) to go to the Marine Corps Bootcamp or the State Felony First Offenders Bootcamp, if I chose the former my current charges would be dropped to a misdemeanor and I would be off to Paris Island. Needless to say I went to Paris Island.

Alright skipping way ahead to getting married, typical Marine, deployed a lot, lateral moved to EOD, was never home (not by choice, just my job) and when I was I was at the gym, trying to make the team which I finally did.. (Attached Pic of "young Bandit" getting ready to destroy a bunch of captured rocket fuses.. I'm the one in the hat).

Fast Forward Again --> I'm out of the Marines and 26 years old.. I like everybody else needed to make cash, so I started taking low level pro-fights.. Won a bunch, got to some bigger shows, got my ass kicked lol... Pretty much a journeyman as by the time I started pro at 26 I was already to old... found a nitch getting paid to spar other fighters in need of a stocky southpaw. Life was pretty much training, and working out, running 5 or 10 miles every morning, then swimming, and then to the boxing gym for hours each day... 6 or 7 am to 7 or 8 at night each day..

Fast Forward Again--> Bandit is 33 has opened a business, is doing well, still boxing and has got into coaching as well.. My wife is a foreign national (Japan) so she goes back yearly for a couple months to visit her family. It was while she was gone that I got nosy, not for any reason in particular, just being nosy so I logged on the computer and her username and password were still saved as an active cookie in hotmail so I logged in and poked around "why not right?". Long story short this story has been told hundreds of times on here I am sure, found some stuff I did not like (that made me think WTF?), dug a little deeper and deeper and well found out the truth on my own to include pics (sigh...).. Anyway I went Level 5, big blow up, she cuts her trip short to assume damage control I assume.. the whailing sorry's yadda yadda yadda... she had been banging some 25 year old Marine that was stationed there.. Not much worthy of mentioning from this point..

Onto Bandit.45's comments..




bandit.45 said:


> As for his wife, why does she stay with him?


Don't know, guilt I suppose or maybe she feels she is deserving of misery for her actions.



bandit.45 said:


> Has she asked for his forgiveness?


She has, I was basically like "Really? you want me to forgive you?" and walked out on the conversation before I started breaking things 




bandit.45 said:


> I have not heard that. If he was that awful to her, why would she not cut her losses and leave?


Awful is relative, I don't wake up each morning and curse her, I just ignore her, and interact only to the extent that is required to effectively run my business. There is no intimacy, no touching, none of that, she knows better by now.



bandit.45 said:


> Maybe she's too codependent.


Possibly I don't know



bandit.45 said:


> Maybe she enjoys being mentally and emotionally dominated by him.


Again, dominated, I don't know.. like I said I just shut her down.. and ignore her.. I don't think I dominate her or act like a tyrant... I just do as I damn well please and don't really care about what she has to say..



bandit.45 said:


> Bandit is a warrior. You, Mori, are a gentleman and scholar. Bandit is a tactical thinker, you are a strategic thinker.


This has made me think.. your probably right.. as I would ideally like to have something or someone waiting in the wings, or a plan lined up prior to dumping her.. I need a plan of action, of where I am going to be or what my next move is going to be before I drop her.. Honestly kinda concerned about going out into the dating world again as I'm pretty sure I'll just have to learn how to put up with somebody elses BS.. when at least where I'm at things are for lack of a better word stable, and routine.



bandit.45 said:


> Bandit approaches his existence from a completely different angle than you... than most of us. Doesn't mean Bandit's way of looking at life is better or worse. Just different, and to some hard to swallow. I've known alot of guys like Bandit. They come across as crass, when in reality they are simply super-focused. Thats what empowers him to win in the cage or keep a bigger opponent from bashing his brains out.


For me, hurt and anger kinda go hand in hand... If I'm hurt I get mad and/or determined and it pushes the hurt out.. If I'm getting peppered with jabs, that sting, if you get mad enough you can just walk through em'. When all this went down, I re-dedicated myself to the gym again, and focused all my energies on those I spar or training.. Not leaving space for anything else to creep in.. and when it does I just think of those pics (I stared at em for hours to burn em' into my memory when I found out) and I get an anger recharge.. 




bandit.45 said:


> Bandit operates at a physical skill level that very few of us could comprehend. It takes an inborn mentality, an offensive and tactical way of thinking, to be able to do what he does.


This is probably true but it's a matter of focus and determination, not God given athleticism. My next fight is May 19th, so I'm working towards that right now.. What I have done this week.. 

Monday-rode bike (mountain bike, knees don't like to run anymore) 25 miles in early A.M., went to work, at lunch swam for an hour, went back to work, finished around 2 and spent rest of day till 9 or so at the gym getting ready and sparring with a doppelganger of the guy I meet in May.

Tues- Met coach at Gym around 4 a.m worked out till around 8a.m went to work, finished work and biked from work around the county and back to the gym probably 20 miles, stayed till 9 or so (focus mitts, heavy bags, crazy bag and rope)

Wends- Skipped rope for an hour or so after getting up, went riding again off road in the sand only about 8 miles but much tougher than road riding.. went to work, left work went to gym and worked on getting beat up (slipping, bobbing & weaving,) Basically four guys in the ring (me and three others), each in a corner.. each round I face a different guy and I am not allowed to hit back only defend and get out of the way, movement, movement, movement.. The goal is for them to Gas me out, as they are rotating working one round and taking two off so they stay fresh, while I go every round against the next man in rotation. 

Thursday- Bike ride in the A.M.-work- lunch time swim- and more ring rotations but this time they are on the defense and are only allowed to counter punch.. Coach also makes sure I throw 1000 punches before I leave.. 

Friday (Today)- swam in the A.M., at work now, got errands to run at lunch and have no idea what torture I will face at gym tonight.. 

Current weight 174, gotta make 156 for weigh-in so have another 10 to drop..rest can be dehydrated..



bandit.45 said:


> No the other Bandit... the muscular, tough one.
> 
> I'm the big, middle-aged dopey one.


I'm just me man, don't really no any other way to be.. Sorry this post got so long.. 

As for where I am emotionally now. Just tired at the moment, to the point where I think the emotions are making me physically ill, wore to a nub so to speak. Something will eventually give I am sure...


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

very interesting thanks for sharing that bandit..I'm speechless
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bandit: If you ever get to come up for air, get yourself on down here to Texas and give me a hand in getting myself back in shape so I can continue to chase those 16-18 year old high school football player phenoms up and down the gridiron this fall.


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Heard there is good hog hunting in Texas..


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Bandit, remind me to NEVER piss you off...
good luck on your match coming up..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bandit said:


> Heard there is good hog hunting in Texas..


Hey, Bandit: If the ole freezer's getting a tad low on pork, let me know! I've got a real good friend that's a retired basketball coach, plus two guys who I ref football with, who would be totally honored to take you out here in the area. They've all bagged quite a few that's weighed in at better than 300 lbs. And the good news is that you don't even need a license to hunt them here!


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Bandit, remind me to NEVER piss you off...
> good luck on your match coming up..



Thanks, and I'm actually pretty laid back.. not a sociopath or anything, nor a bully anymore, little old for that, and past the I have something to prove stage (in so far as starting trouble outside of a sanctioned event)



arbitrator said:


> Hey, Bandit: If the ole freezer's getting a tad low on pork, let me know! I've got a real good friend that's a retired basketball coach, who would be honored to take you out here in the area. He's bagged some that's weighed in at better than 300 lbs. And you don't need a license to hunt them here!


I may take you up on that if I get a show that way, we hunt em' a lot here Florida, and in Ga where I am from as well.. All you need is a some good dogs, and some big balls and your pretty much set.. (well a truck helps too..)


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bandit said:


> I may take you up on that if I get a show that way, we hunt em' a lot here Florida, and in Ga where I am from as well.. All you need is a some good dogs, and some big balls and your pretty much set.. (well a truck helps too..)


The people that hunt here rarely ever use dogs. We've seen packs of 40-50 of them at a time. They totally tear up the pasture land. No way we'll ever get rid of them all!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bandit said:


> Heard there is good hog hunting in Texas..


I shot a 270 pound Russian boar near New Braunfels about three years ago. Funner hunting you'll never find.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I shot a 270 pound Russian boar near New Braunfels about three years ago. Funner hunting you'll never find.


Then a standing invitation is in order to both of my "bandit" friends to make it on over to the Brazos Valley and "Aggieland" for some prime hog hunting! Just don't hit any of the cattle!

I'm really starting to think that we need a "hog-hunting" thread on here!


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## onthefence16 (Aug 21, 2011)

I feel exactly the same way you do.....thanks for sharing. Now I know I am not alone


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

In Ga, it's for the most part a dog and rifle event.. and yes we need a hog hunting thread.. 7.62x39 will drop a hog nicely...lol


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Bandit said:


> F" her she cheated.. No need to feel sorry for her.. I find it odd that you would feel sorry for the party deserving of punishment.. I can feel no more pity for her than I would for a murderer, rapist or thief..


If you ever watched American Beauty, remember Colonel Fitts' wife and what happened to her? that what I see happening to your wife if you keep up being this brutally cold, especially to someone so co-dependent. You will break her down mentally and she will never recover from it. She cheated? fine, but have some mercy and let her go.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bandit said:


> In Ga, it's for the most part a dog and rifle event.. and yes we need a hog hunting thread.. 7.62x39 will drop a hog nicely...lol


I shot mine with a Marlin 1895 lever action in .45-70. Dropped him like a bad habit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Complexity said:


> If you ever watched American Beauty, remember Colonel Fitts' wife and what happened to her? that what I see happening to your wife if you keep up being this brutally cold, especially to someone so co-dependent. You will break her down mentally and she will never recover from it. She cheated? fine, but have some mercy and let her go.


? She isn't co-dependent at all. She's left bandit behind for the fun of puking her guts up on weekends and waking up with someone she can't remember the name of. 

Bandit - he's going through some rough times, but he'll get through it and will be a major bad ass chick magnet for the experience.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> For those that are BS..have you forgiven your spouse? I was watching an episode of Dr. Phil and he had a gentleman on who made a comment about how when you do not forgive someone it is like ingesting poison and then waiting for the other person to die. I thought that was highly profound!!
> 
> Yet I feel this need to hang on to what happened and to the anger I feel...I think in my mind I feel if I forgive him then I am letting him know that what he did was okay and I am "over it".


I did, in all cases (I lived through 4 broken relationships due to infidelity), but I never forget. Forgiveness is capital in order to live and thrive as a human being. So is compassion. Two of them tried to romantically test the waters with me again. Advances which I never replied to. I probably would have tried to mend things if their would have been kids involved.


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

I feel sorry for so many of you that don't know the freedom in forgiveness, and I said forgive, not forget. By not forgiving you EMPOWER the person who has hurt you, therfore you will ever hold that hurt in and not allow ur self the freedom to move past that hurt and on to better relationships. 
I did forgive my X for cheating, the lies, and the betrayl but she has never forgiven herself and her life shows it, she's stuck doing the same thing over and over....her hell, right here on Earth. Very sad.
For me, the anger associated w/ not forgiving was eating me alive, it was turning into hate, and I was becoming a hateful person. That's what I mean about being free, control of one's life, let it go, be free and forgive.
You never have to tell the person you forgave them, just do it, live it.
Mouse


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

LoveMouse said:


> I feel sorry for so many of you that don't know the freedom in forgiveness, and I said forgive, not forget. By not forgiving you EMPOWER the person who has hurt you, therfore you will ever hold that hurt in and not allow ur self the freedom to move past that hurt and on to better relationships.
> I did forgive my X for cheating, the lies, and the betrayl but she has never forgiven herself and her life shows it, she's stuck doing the same thing over and over....her hell, right here on Earth. Very sad.
> For me, the anger associated w/ not forgiving was eating me alive, it was turning into hate, and I was becoming a hateful person. That's what I mean about being free, control of one's life, let it go, be free and forgive.
> You never have to tell the person you forgave them, just do it, live it.
> Mouse


Very wise word Mouse. Forgiveness is extremely empowering.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> ? She isn't co-dependent at all. She's left bandit behind for the fun of puking her guts up on weekends and waking up with someone she can't remember the name of.
> 
> Bandit - he's going through some rough times, but he'll get through it and will be a major bad ass chick magnet for the experience.


Anyone who puts up with this extreme form of emotional neglect (I'd call it abuse) is either incredibly remorseful or co dependent. When one realizes that their spouse is truly repentant and contrite about their actions but still purposely punishes them beyond reason, well then there's something fundamentally wrong with that individual. Cheating is reprehensible but to intentionally punish someone knowing that they're sorry and deliberately choosing not to reconcile because you enjoy the pain you're putting them through, well, I have absolutely no sympathy for that person.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Anyone who puts up with this extreme form of emotional neglect (I'd call it abuse) is either incredibly remorseful or co dependent. When one realizes that their spouse is truly repentant and contrite about their actions but still purposely punishes them beyond reason, well then there's something fundamentally wrong with that individual. Cheating is reprehensible but to intentionally punish someone knowing that they're sorry and deliberately choosing not to reconcile because you like the pain you're them through, well, I have absolutely no sympathy for that person.


? Are we talking about Bandit? That doesn't match his story.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> ? Are we talking about Bandit? That doesn't match his story.


Not Bandit.45, the other Bandit
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/669419-post69.html


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

Complexity said:


> If you ever watched American Beauty, remember Colonel Fitts' wife and what happened to her? that what I see happening to your wife if you keep up being this brutally cold, especially to someone so co-dependent. You will break her down mentally and she will never recover from it. She cheated? fine, but have some mercy and let her go.


Googled it, and wikipedia did not really mention much about that character (Barbara) in the film.. Never saw the movie so you would have to elaborate there to fill me in on what your getting at.



Shaggy said:


> ? She isn't co-dependent at all. She's left bandit behind for the fun of puking her guts up on weekends and waking up with someone she can't remember the name of.
> 
> Bandit - he's going through some rough times, but he'll get through it and will be a major bad ass chick magnet for the experience.


I would agree, it's hard to say your co-dependent to one person when your getting banged by someone else. 

As for being a "major bad ass chick magnet"; probably not... Don't really think I have the attitude for that anymore. Attractive or not, my conversational and/or emotional confidence (in so far as females is concerned) has been shot to hell. I fear I would either come across as damaged goods, or be overly protective and/or come across as controlling for fear of getting fudged over again. Additionally, (and I hate to admit this) I'm old, as such I'm am semi relegated to women around my own age (30-40) which is well not exactly an arousing thought as a) they themselves are usually damaged goods b) have kids or c) have been ravaged by time (yes I"m a bit shallow I know, but at least I can admit it). If only I could find a female with the maturity of my age group and the body of a 20 something lol. I know I tend to take a pessimistic view of the future (in so far a finding a new relationship is concerned) but I really have not seen anything that strikes my fancy and have come to the realization that there really is no such thing as "the one", a "soul mate" or whatever label you would put on it. That is just something that we tell ourselves to re-affirm our own decisions and over shadow any lurking doubts that we may have.




Complexity said:


> Anyone who puts up with this extreme form of emotional neglect (I'd call it abuse) is either incredibly remorseful or co dependent. When one realizes that their spouse is truly repentant and contrite about their actions but still purposely punishes them beyond reason, well then there's something fundamentally wrong with that individual. Cheating is reprehensible but to intentionally punish someone knowing that they're sorry and deliberately choosing not to reconcile because you enjoy the pain you're putting them through, well, I have absolutely no sympathy for that person.


I don't need your sympathy, and as to your comment "extreme form of emotional neglect" I would consider cheating to be an extreme for of emotional neglect in and of itself. As for putting the cheater through hell; well so be it.. Funny how the situation would not be what it is, had it not been for her actions. Is there something fundamentally wrong with me, I doubt it, I just handle things differently than yourself. I see know need to open my arms, heart and mind to getting crushed again.. Additionally, by doing the above forgiving, accepting, reconciling etc. I am essentially affirming to both her an myself that I am fine being number 2. Which is BS, I'm nobodies #2, I'm not second best, nor will I condone her actions and essentially cuckold myself by offering forgiveness and acceptance for her actions. 

I grew up rough, had a tough childhood etc. so I have come to terms with the fact that life in and of itself is not exactly a joy filled endeavor. If you accept that the status quo of life defaults to unhappiness and that "it is what it is" and you have lived in that reality long enough, then you can tolerate, and function effectively in an emotionally taxing situation. I keep myself busy, I don't talk, I don't cause problems, I do my job, I pay the bills, and for the most part avoid creating chaos by bringing all this BS up and talking about it.


In the end, I figure it like this.. By seeking out or finding a new relationship, I am going to have to put up with somebody elses BS anyway. I'll have to teach them all about me, and learn all about them, a whole new set of rules, do's and don't's, effort etc. A false sense of "all is right" in the first few months whilst the dopamine is flowing, that will simply taper off into your typical woman bizitching. So in the end it's all the same. Akin to the saying "Same shizit different day", "Same BS, different person"..


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I shot mine with a Marlin 1895 lever action in .45-70. Dropped him like a bad habit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I imagine it would, I dunno I kinda got a special place in my heart for the AK since my time in the service. It is by far the most reliable, and simplest weapon I have ever fired. Another good one is the Saiga 12, basically a 12 gauge, built on the frame work and internals of an AK.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bandit said:


> As I imagine it would, I dunno I kinda got a special place in my heart for the AK since my time in the service. It is by far the most reliable, and simplest weapon I have ever fired. Another good one is the Saiga 12, basically a 12 gauge, built on the frame work and internals of an AK.


A little more moisture this year here in Central Texas is seemingly bringing our "rooter friends" out of the woods. Looks like we'll be harvesting hay again, and may very well need the services of both of my "bandito" TAM friends to journey down here and help to insure that the hay meadows don't get totally torn up. Packs of those things, ranging up to 50, seem to like to run just before sun-up and after sundown; but we've actually caught them running about at midday as well!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The two Bandits should be able to rid you of your pig problem quite efficiently.... as long as we get some good Texas pork barbecue in exchange. 

Oh wait... Bandit can't eat pork. Can you?


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> A little more moisture this year here in Central Texas is seemingly bringing our "rooter friends" out of the woods. Looks like we'll be harvesting hay again, and may very well need the services of both of my "bandito" TAM friends to journey down here and help to insure that the hay meadows don't get totally torn up. Packs of those things, ranging up to 50, seem to like to run just before sun-up and after sundown; but we've actually caught them running about at midday as well!


Wow, that's a bunch of pigs.. Logistically I would have to figure out how to pack up and transport three dogs.. I would be wary of going after hogs without good dogs that I trust and that would give their life to keep me out of harms way. I've had my hide saved more than once by an astute canine friend that wasnt going to let anything happen to dad.


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> The two Bandits should be able to rid you of your pig problem quite efficiently.... as long as we get some good Texas pork barbecue in exchange.
> 
> Oh wait... Bandit can't eat pork. Can you?


Of course, "It's the other white meat"...


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Hello Folks, I agree with the varies of this post. It is difficult to forgive, let alone forget. It is a rather bitter pill to swallow... so to speak! However, some do forgive. I believe it takes a lot of love and strength on the persons behalf. One must be determined to forgive, and as far as forgetting... that's out. In my view, one can forgive if under Grace, and accept the situation. To forget... highly unlikely, because we are not hardwired this way. We as humans do not whitewash things so easily, especially when there is context of such nature as infidelity. Trust and love go hand in hand, and when tampered with, there is a situational disaster. We more than likely 'accept' and move forward. That in it's own right takes determination. To be mentally oblivious of something that has occurred, forget that...so to speak. In the matter and nature of such, infidelity leaves an unbanished stain on our phsyche. It leaves us to a certain mentality, one of low esteem, less self worth and a likelyhood of never trusting another with our hearts again. Infidelity is a serious mind matter, as well as the heart and soul.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> The two Bandits should be able to rid you of your pig problem quite efficiently.... as long as we get some good Texas pork barbecue in exchange.
> 
> Oh wait... Bandit can't eat pork. Can you?



Tell you what, guys: If we can't find a good place to buy it, then, by golly, we can just cook our own! Mesquite or hickory work well for you?


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I am a big believer in forgive and then.........._release_. And it all depends on the severity of it because like I said before running over my favorite golf club with the car because you're mad or putting a favorite shirt of mine in the shredder ----->_forgiveable._, but sneaking around and sharing your intimate private parts with another guy is and always will be UNFORGIVEABLE with me and we are DONE.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Well to forget would be the same definition as rug sweeping I think
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

wow 2 bandits in here or am I losing my mind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Well to forget would be the same definition as rug sweeping I think
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, forgetting is not an option, you will always remember the pain you felt, you will always be more careful w/ ur emotions and the SO.
If I didn't forgive the X, everytime I saw her I'd want to dig back, I'd have a desire to hurt her bad, I'd come up w/ ways to make sure she'd never be happy and the world knew she was a whoxe. (OPPS, what am I doing here lol)
Once forgiven, you don't have those feelings of hate, you don't look for ways to destroy but you learn compassion, empathy, and love for others, other than her.
Mouse


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## christmaslady (Dec 21, 2009)

Funny thing is I could have accepted it (as I understand human nature)-not accepting that it is right but accepting that it is somewhat natural. However, I was unable to forgive; because he would never speak to me about any of it (wether it is because he denies his part in the downfall or he just doesn't care..whatever the reason, we no longer talk and now there is no chance for talking and/or open forgiveness). I am learning to let it go with each day; in hopes of finding the one man that is for me (as he has found the one that he wants to be with for the rest of his life...although 2 years ago that one was me)


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Maybe not.


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