# Men, is this offensive?



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Our youngest son (preschooler) is an emotional child. Is really into dolls and traditionally "girlie" stuff.

H has talked in the past about wanting to harden him up before he gets older. So he does not get bullied at school.

The other day we talked about it and I made a comment about how I thought he might be gay as an adult. I had thought it before and it was made probably coming across as slightly lightheartedly, because to me it really is like saying someone has brown hair, or blue eyes. Like an observation if you like.

H is really angry at me. Really dressed me down saying what was wrong with me, and I should never say that about a man's son, and if I had said it about someone else's son they would have knocked me out.

He said it was akin to how I would feel if someone called my daughter a slvt.

I have apologized for upsetting him. I think I kinda get where he is coming from but I think he is going way over the top.

Was I wrong to say that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Your child may or may not be gay, nothing anyone can do will change that.

My daughter is gay, and I find it insulting that your husband makes such comparisons. It makes no difference to me what my daughter identifies herself as, it doesn't make her less of a person, and it's not something either of you can control.

As for the doll playing, if you study child psychology you will know it doesn't make him gay. He might be going to be a father one day, or a teacher or any number of things. It's normal childhood behaviour. 

Does your husband have anger problems? Or unrealistic expectations, or control issues?


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## betta (Nov 13, 2012)

No, I don't think you were wrong to say that. I think it may have been insensitive, but I think you have a lot of other problems to deal with before you even get that far. I think your hubby needs to man up a little bit and be the father your son needs him to be, not the other way around. 

If it helps, an affinity for dolls, and girlie stuff does not make a person gay. What makes a person gay is a complex between biological responses, social influences, and psychological distortions. What that means is that when your husband insists that your son is not gay, he's really turning your son gay by default. 

Most people are attracted to both sexes, which is probably why your husband had such a negative reaction. Yep, most people are biologically bi-sexual. That doesn't mean that most people are gay. Being gay isn't about liking girlie stuff, it's about finding other males attractive, which has nothing to do with girlie stuff. If your husband likes nice clothes, nice cars, nice shoes, he likes girlie stuff, but that doesn't mean he's gay.

Being gay, or lesbian, is being attracted to persons of the same sex and forming sexual relationships with persons of the same sex. It is a sexual orientation, not a character trait. 

Would it help to toughen your son up a bit to avoid bullying? Some, but only in an appropriate way that respects who he is. If it helps, boys who like girlie stuff are more likely to have female friends and have earlier consistent relationships with people of the opposite sex, including sexual relationships. If your husband and yourself sexually matured early, your son is likely to be hetero, not gay not matter if he likes to play dress up or not. 

Remember, men wear dresses too, they're called kilts, yukatas, robes, togas, etc. ad nauseum.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Allowing a child to play with opposite gender toys is as unlikely to encourage homosexuality anymore than a child playing with same sex toys ensures heterosexuality.:scratchhead:


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

All I care is that my boys are healthy and live happy lives. Now if they were to become NY Yankees fans then there would be a huge problem.
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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Ok, guy talking here, your husband is right that he needs to toughen him up before school because if he goes there to play with dolls he will get crucified. Kids are horribly cruel. 

But if he has natural tendencies to be gay, there isn't really anything to be done. He is or he isn't. The reason why your husband was so upset is that deep down he suspects that may be the case. 

And i can assure you no heterosexual man wants a gay son. They may lie about it and say they don't mind. They will be, at best, ok with it. But when a guy dreams of his son he doesn't dream about someone who prefers Ken to Barbie. 




> Allowing a child to play with opposite gender toys is as unlikely to encourage homosexuality anymore than a child playing with same sex toys ensures heterosexuality.


That's right, sexuality isn't really about the toys you played with. But in school, a boy be damned if he brings dolls as favorite toy. 



> Most people are attracted to both sexes, which is probably why your husband had such a negative reaction. Yep, most people are biologically bi-sexual.


Prove it.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Opening point: I do realize playing with dolls does not make him gay! I was not asking for opinions on whether my son *will* be gay because he likes girlie stuff. I have more than a reasonable education in psychology to comprehend that!

Rather I was asking if I was unreasonable to have verbalized that. My feelings were no. H is very much a mans man and I know he is thinking more about our son growing up than how he comes across.

He was very harsh with me and I was really cross, specially when he said he had told his mom who apparently was aghast and asked what on earth I had said that for!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

walkingwounded said:


> ...to me it really is like saying someone has brown hair, or blue eyes. Like an observation if you like.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You've got quite a few issues here:

1 - Your husband is out of touch with reality on the subject. he needs some education to be brought down to earth. It's his SON, for gods sake.

2 - YOU. Wonderful that you see the world as a purple rainbow where everything is hugs and kisses. But if you think sexual preference is as simple as hair color, your son is in for a world of hurt. Just look at the attitude of his FATHER, for Christ's sake. Multiply that by about 50 million, but then extrapolate for him being some other kids gay son, not theirs. He'll have to deal with bigots, confusion, harrasment, bullying, his WHOLE LIFE. If there is an indication he's gay, start reading. Start dealing with it and learning how to help him through it now. It won't be as simple as which shirt will make his blue eyes "pop".

3 - Both of you together. You're the "Odd Couple" of parents of a (potentially) gay kid. You need to get on the same page of parenting.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the input, just reading through it all.
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## betta (Nov 13, 2012)

costa200 said:


> And i can assure you no heterosexual man wants a gay son. They may lie about it and say they don't mind. They will be, at best, ok with it. But when a guy dreams of his son he doesn't dream about someone who prefers Ken to Barbie.


That statement is BS. Don't particularly care if my son's gay or hetero. All I care about is that he's able to have meaningful relationships with someone who won't treat him like crap. And I'm a guy. I owned my own construction business for 20 years. Worked 82 hours on average my second and third year. You don't get more "guy" than that.

Men who are "concerned" about their sons being gay are trying to live their lives for them, trying to have another adolescence, IMHO, and never grew up to begin with.

Adults face their fears and accept what life really is without being dismayed by it, even their own death. I think having a gay son is a damned sight better than being dead any day, or, for that matter, having a gay son in a good relationship is one heck of a lot better than having a hetero son in a bad relationship.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I have 3 kids - boy and 2 girls all close in ages so the girly stuff way outnumbers the boy stuff.

When my son was about 4 we all went for a walk and he wanted to push a stroller too with a doll in it. A PINK stroller!! My husband happened to come home and I thought he was going to pass out and I'll have to admit it made me a bit uncomfortable too. I didn't mind him playing with dolls INSIDE the house but in public? Not so much but I never once tried to stop him.

Long story short is my son is now 12.5 and he's ALL boy. He's also sensitive too. So you see there is no way to judge if someone is gay by the toys they play with or how sensitive they are. There is more to it than that.

Your husband is overreacting.


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## betta (Nov 13, 2012)

> Prove it.


Well, let me see. Kinsey's sex studies, including at least 2 books. Maslow's sex studies. Master's sex studies. Basically 80 years worth of psychosexual research.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

betta said:


> That statement is BS. Don't particularly care if my son's gay or hetero. All I care about is that he's able to have meaningful relationships with someone who won't treat him like crap. And I'm a guy. I owned my own construction business for 20 years. Worked 82 hours on average my second and third year. You don't get more "guy" than that.
> 
> Men who are "concerned" about their sons being gay are trying to live their lives for them, trying to have another adolescence, IMHO, and never grew up to begin with.
> 
> Adults face their fears and accept what life really is without being dismayed by it, even their own death. I think having a gay son is a damned sight better than being dead any day, or, for that matter, having a gay son in a good relationship is one heck of a lot better than having a hetero son in a bad relationship.


Yes, thanks for being politically correct. And on and on about how manly you are... I guess we all needed to know that.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

betta said:


> Well, let me see. Kinsey's sex studies, including at least 2 books. Maslow's sex studies. Master's sex studies. Basically 80 years worth of psychosexual research.


Lets keep it simple and tell me how did anyone prove that most people are sexually attracted to both sexes. What was the method and instruments used to evaluate it. 

And Kinsey? Really? With his ridiculous scale of ****-hetero experiences? Talk about a guy with some agenda out to prove that he wasn't "weird"...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I can see your husband feeling hurt if you are predicting that your son is going to be homosexual as an adult. However, he overreacted. I think you need to be a more sensitive when it comes to talking about this. Remember, in your husband's eyes, his son is the one that will carry the family name on - specifically his part of the family. That may be factored in.

But playing with dolls in and of itself does not guarantee that the boy will be gay. I have 3 kids, the youngest 2 daughters. Neither of them played with dolls at all - both actually hate dolls. My oldest daughter is almost 12 and she is 100% girl. My younger daughter not only dislikes dolls but she likes to draw gory pictures of vampires, werewolves, vicious dogs, etc...(but amazingly she's very friendly and happy by nature!). Her favorite color is blue and when she was 3/4, she wanted spiderman underwear instead of girl undies. But I have no fear that she'll become a lesbian. She is still girlie, and the older my younger daughter gets (she's 6 now) the more girl I see coming out. My oldest (son) has always been a boy's boy.


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## betta (Nov 13, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Lets keep it simple and tell me how did anyone prove that most people are sexually attracted to both sexes. What was the method and instruments used to evaluate it.
> 
> And Kinsey? Really? With his ridiculous scale of ****-hetero experiences? Talk about a guy with some agenda out to prove that he wasn't "weird"...


Not gonna do your work for you. If you really want to know, start reading. I've given you enough information to know where to start. The rest is up to you, because you obviously won't take my word for it, which is a good thing. Everyone has to come to their own conclusions about some things. It's good to be a little skeptical.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi, I think your husband was WAY out of line here getting so that you felt that you had to apologize. We make observations about our kids all day long, whatever they do, throughout their lives. Some observations will be about the awesome things they do, or the friends they pick, or how they do in school, or how they behave, or deal with a situation, or navigate through life. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong, sometimes we just don't know what to think and speak aloud to our spouses and speculate on something.

For your husband to blow his cork because you made an observation, as distressing as it was to him, is just outright manipulation. I guess he wants you to shut your mouth any time you may think something that is politically incorrect to him.

I have 3 boys. My youngest is 8. My husband and I have speculated for years that he might be gay. Who knows - he's only 8, but my husband has a brother who is gay and thinks our son exhibits a similar personality and likes/dislilkes as his brother. We openly talk about it the few times a year my son does seem like he might be gay. We think life is more challenging for a gay person. My brother-in-law and his partner want a kid, and that's not so easy.

But to get angry at you for this thought entering your head - that's just manipulative and bullying. We're unsuccessfully trying to get my son interested in sports, although neither of us think it will make a difference, because we think team sports is good for girls and boys, but he'd rather hang out with me and bake.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

betta said:


> Not gonna do your work for you. If you really want to know, start reading. I've given you enough information to know where to start. The rest is up to you, because you obviously won't take my word for it, which is a good thing. Everyone has to come to their own conclusions about some things. It's good to be a little skeptical.


well ahead of you mate. I know those works and found them to be good examples on why psychology is still seen as a lesser science. Manipulative subjective bush!t that would never pass as scientific in any other body of science. 

To classify most humans as bisexual (that they don't actually do, just give you different scales of continuous of human sexuality, which in fact makes the word bisexual meaningless) is just outright ridiculous. How many young boys will masturbate to the mental pictures of other boys? "most"? Are you serious?


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

I see something else going on here. See your husband overacted.. cause you said aloud what he was already thinking... thus confirming his own fears. And that's too overwhelming to face right now. 

Above someone mentioned, that no man wants their son to be gay, i won't take that hard of a stance, but i will say that given a choice... the majority of heterosexual men would PREFER... that their son's not be gay. Hopefully that comes off a little bit better. My son is 6, and i've had some concerns. He has an older sister, and has often indulged in her "girly" games. But at the same time, he's been a chick magnet since he was a baby, and has openly flirted with older, grown women when we are in public. If i was a single man, he could of easily open up a door for me to hit on a pretty woman. But at the end of the day, whatever he turns up as... i, as well as others who are close to him will love him as much the same.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Personally, I find the most bothersome part about this whole thing the whole "a man's son" comment - um, isn't every boy some man's son? So - if it does turn out that your son is gay, will it be one of those things where now he's "your son" rather than "our son?" 

Whether or not you verbalize the reality, it is indeed a reality that your son (or any child for that matter) might indeed be homosexual when they get older. And - I'd say that your husband's reaction needs to be discussed -between the two of you, and then perhaps in some kind of counseling. You being more sensitive about bringing this up, or never bringing it up again won't make the possibility any less true - so this should be addressed. 

And - yes, just because you play with "girly" things doesn't automatically make you gay - it just might mean your personality isn't going to develop into some mega-Alpha that needs to be all man all the time. Also - perhaps if more male children weren't taught that playing with dolls (AKA playing in a parental role) or playing things like - cooking or house, weren't "unmanly" and "for girls" you might have a lot less relationship problems like the ones posted all over TAM about husbands who have no or begrudging interest in helping with the house or the children. 

It is suspected and has been studied that the reason that girls develop less scientific and mathematical ability or interest is because they aren't given toys that develop those interests/skills when they are young - erector sets, rock tumblers, etc. So this whole "that's for boys" and "that's for girls" mentality, can indeed, negatively effect children's development. 

Also - PS, no matter what, other kids will pick on you in school no matter what your deal is. They will always find something to pick on you about - unless you are in the popular Alpha clique - and have the perfect body proportions, wardrobe, and accessories. You should teach your kids how to deal with bullies, not how to constantly change who they are to avoid being bullied - the problem isn't with them, it's with others.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Good to hear people talking about their thoughts esp. with their own kids.

I thought I might need to hear the guys' input. I was thinking on the lines of something to do with a feeling of shared masculinity, a son who embodies "maleness" and what H believes is manly and wants to teach our son to be as a man. Plus carrying on the family name and eventually havinv a traditional family of his ow..

So I understand where he is coming from I think. What got me was his reaction to me I guess. Rhe comment about it being like someone saying my daughter is a slvt. Well. I do not think it is anything like that but I think it speaks volumes about what he thinks. He really thinks I have stepped way out of line and is being really cold with me.
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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I don't think you were being unreasonable in what you said, and it also would seem that IF in fact he were to be gay it sounds like you're accepting of him either way. Which is a good thing. Your husband I'm not sure about.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I was offended when someone predicted my brother would be gay. The kid was 5 at the time, for heaven's sake! By the time he was around 8, I had to admit it seemed like he might be. He came out to me when he was 15. 

He did have to deal with a lot of abuse and bigotry. Still does to this day. 

I think a constructive approach would be for you and your husband to be realistic that a boy *does* need to learn how to interact and cope with bullies whether he's straight or gay, and table the label.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Kathy that was originally the way we were thinking. It is something I have worked on with my elder two cjildren, how to interact and handle situations appropriately. It is something I am pretty big on. As a child I was bullied and I wish looking back I had had the confidence to stand up for myself. I was worried our eldest might grt picked on but we talked with them about different situations and instilled in to them that it is OK to stand up for yourself, to say no and to understand how they are not responsible for making others happy.

It was an offhand remark on my part. We have mentioned it in passing before and he expressed he was not thrilled at the thought but this is the first time he has actually got angry about it.
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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm going to be straight with you because people tend to represent themesleves the way they hope people will accept them.

That would have struck a nerve with me.

It would be more about me as a father and role model and my child deviating from my example than what he would like as an adult. That's just me though.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> was wrong with me, and I should never say that about a man's son, and if I had said it about someone else's son they would have knocked me out.
> 
> He said it was akin to how I would feel if someone called my daughter a slvt.
> 
> ...


You weren't wrong. Your husband is overly sensitive on the subject which makes me think he probably feels the same way you do. Is he generally a little homophobic?

This is also non the same thing as your daughter being a slvt. Being a slvt is a charecterization of behavior, being gay is simply who you are.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I wont touch the gay issue. I don't think you are unreasonable to voice your observations or opinion to your husband. If you were broadcasting this to the world, maybe, but if you can't talk to your husband about something like this, that's a shame.

Likely he overreacted because he has his own fears and issues brewing. You stepped into a landmine without knowing it. He's obviously got something bottled up in his head and projected that pent up energy onto you.

Listen, I get your husbands fears about bullying. No parent wants to see their child be hurt by other people or be a target for bullying. Its hard enough for me to think about sending my kids to school (now almost 3 and almost 4) much less think about whether they will be singled out and teased. And this churns through my head quite a bit because my daughter was born with some physical abnormalities that I fear will lead her to be a target of bullying. It's awful to have that weight on your mind.
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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm going to be straight with you because people tend to represent themesleves the way they hope people will accept them.
> 
> That would have struck a nerve with me.
> 
> It would be more about me as a father and role model and my child deviating from my example than what he would like as an adult. That's just me though.


This is what I think H is thinking. Pretty much exactly what I got from what he said.

Paulination. He is not homophobic. He gets a little uncomfortable around gay men but not any more than any other guy I know.
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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> So I understand where he is coming from I think. What got me was his reaction to me I guess. Rhe comment about it being like someone saying my daughter is a slvt. Well. I do not think it is anything like that but I think it speaks volumes about what he thinks. He really thinks I have stepped way out of line and is being really cold with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is your husband homophobic in general? Sounds like he might be. If so, he's going to hate hearing any inkling that your son might be gay from you or anyone else. He's going to feel like it's a personal affront - like H wasn't "man enough" to have a hetero kid. He's taking this personally.

ETA: I just saw your reply that H is not homophobic. Are you sure? What are his feelings about discrimination against gay people? How would he feel if you befriended someone who was gay or lesbian and brought them to the house?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok I have to go against most opinions here and say this. I feel you should consider apologizing to your husband for the slight miscommunication and explain you didnt mean to come across as rude. In my opinion your husband did mot over react in the least. In fact that is a perfectly normal response from a male who may feel like he was insulted. 

Think about this for a moment. The males of our species are very prideful creatures. Thier offspring is a great source of thier pride and some may feel to be tjier biggest accomplishment in life. Basically thier children are the best thing to happen to them. So they will likely take offense to different things. 

Your husband expressed that he felt your comment was a slandering insult and it did offend him. Instead of dismissing your spouses feelings as trivial and uncalled for I think you should respect them as this is your mate for life. His pov and feelings should matter to you just as yours should matter to him.

Now this is just my pov on the matter. Keep in mind as individuals we all have things that are important to us and we all feel differently about these things we find important. This is where compromise and communication comes in. Again just my pov. 


I can say that my son loves dolls, jewelry, sparkly shoes, ect but you know what? This same boy loves farting on his sistets head, he will go around scratching his balls or butt, burping, playing in the mud, ect. I look at his attraction to sparkly things like jewelry, shoes, dresses as him having an eye for beauty. I see this as things he will possibly like in a future girlfriend and wife. His love of playing with dolls and feeding em as great traits in a future father. His roughness, stubborn, and aggressive attitude as great traits in a future man that can and will protect his family when he has one. 

Thats just my pov anyway. I really do find it a bit silly when people get all bent out of shape if thier son likes girly things or thier daughter likes boy things. I see it as a glimpse of what they will find attractive in a future mate.
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## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

Your son is just a preschooler and you already judging his sexuality. Let him grow up and if it comes to light then that he is gay will thats his choice and if he isn't gay well thats great too.

Just because a father has a son doesn't mean that all son's will grow up to be badasses. Instead worry more on being a father by teaching him right from wrong, how to do manly things and not worry about fighting. 

For him to take his son fishing, let him help his dad to work on the car, help to do yard work, etc.....


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

life.is.pain said:


> Your son is just a preschooler and you already judging his sexuality. Let him grow up and if it comes to light then that he is gay will thats his choice and if he isn't gay well thats great too.
> 
> Just because a father has a son doesn't mean that all son's will grow up to be badasses. Instead worry more on being a father by teaching him right from wrong, how to do manly things and not worry about fighting.
> 
> For him to take his son fishing, let him help his dad to work on the car, help to do yard work, etc.....


Agree with this and would like to point out that I think all children are emotional at that age. I know my son is. I dont know one toddler who isnt emotional but then again I havent met every child on this planet.
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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Well, now that you know how sensitive it is for your husband, maybe it would be wise to keep your thoughts on the matter to yourself until you're forced to speak up. 

In the meantime, voice support for homosexuals so that if and when your son does determine that he's gay, your husband will have had a chance to experience positive support and be able to find a way to love your son just the same.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I have to disagree with keeping your thoughts to yourself. I am of the opinion that spouses should communicate thier thoughts to one another to understand each other better.
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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

WW, I don't think that you thought or said that was offensive... unless your H takes you to be an expert on the subject and the truth was too difficult to cope with.

However, what you said wasn't very correct, so you probably shouldn't have said it, but there is nothing "offensive" about it, maybe annoying or frustrating for him to have to listen to you say such stuff. As to whether he believes what you said was true or not, well that is all on him.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> By Gaia: I really do find it a bit silly when people get all bent out of shape if thier son likes girly things or thier daughter likes boy things. I see it as a glimpse of what they will find attractive in a future mate.



Interesting that you should say this, Gaia. Years ago, one of my nephews begged for a Barbie doll for Christmas and, much to my brother inlaw's disgust, my sister bought it for him. I remember him lovingly brushing that doll's hair and cuddling it. It certainly didn't turn him gay, but what was interesting years later was his taste in women - immaculately groomed beauties


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol love the story cosmos. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

Gaia said:


> I have to disagree with keeping your thoughts to yourself. I am of the opinion that spouses should communicate thier thoughts to one another to understand each other better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is very true. everybody has a voice and you have a right to speak up no matter what especially if your the parent. 

A good marriage and relationship is based on communication.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

You apologizing because of offending him (as other have suggested) isn't going to neccessarily help if other people are encouraging him to be/stay offended. 

So - does he frequently discuss serious issues between the two of you with his Mom so he can use her agreement with him as a trump card?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> You apologizing because of offending him (as other have suggested) isn't going to neccessarily help if other people are encouraging him to be/stay offended.
> 
> So - does he frequently discuss serious issues between the two of you with his Mom so he can use her agreement with him as a trump card?


No one encouraged him to stay or be offended that I can see. But in case my post came across that way I would like to clarify. The apology would be for unintentionally offending him. The discussion following is about respecting the spouse enough to communicate oneself better. My suggestion was apologizing for that unintentional error and have a discussion to explain pov's as well as showing no disrespect was intended. 

As far as his mother goes.... Its really none of her business imo as you two are full grown adults who are capable of solving your own issues.
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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Doesn't it all depend on what your H means by "toughen him up", and what does tough look like? Does he mean to grab him by the ankle and dip him in a frozen stream like the Spartans. I would say that a gay child, boy or girl, will have a difficult time. My experience of 28 years at a school once identified as homophobic is that some kids are accepting, others are not, some kids will like him, others will not. Some of the best students are gay and they are respected for their aibilities. Most of the time they are hard to separate from the rest of the kids. My guess is that children are children, and you raise them like children. With all the crap kids deal with why give them more. I am a gruff old man and I have been a Union Steward for years. My partner in the work was a gay man who was the hardest working, kindest most decent man I have ever met. I can think of many manly men I wouldn't want near me but my gay friend always had my back and was there for the trouble. I would say that you need to worry more about the person he becomes than the gender he follows. Why can't he be gay and good, why would it matter.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Gaia, I did apologize. I am seeking to understand. I think I do, that does not mean I agree with it, but I think I get it. I was not dismissing him, but rather his very short reaction to me. He should know me well enough by now to know I am not rude, or anything like that.

And he does go talk to his mom a lot. That bugged me.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm a woman, and as a child I played with match box cars. They were my favorite toys EVER! To this day, I'm a "car girl". I love the old (and new) muscle cars. Does that make me gay? NO! Trust me, I LOVE men! I'm married with a daughter (she likes cars, too!) 

Perhaps your son likes fashion or likes playing with dolls as a lack of another playmate. Will playing with dolls make him gay? NO!


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

You dont have to agree with it in the least walking. Has he been at all respectful of your feelings and thoughts? Is he dismissive of you? I do agree that he should know you well enough by now. If not then he should try to make an effort to. I do understand where your comming from. I make the same sort of statements from time to time and it tends to be misunderstood as well lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Our youngest son (preschooler) is an emotional child. Is really into dolls and traditionally "girlie" stuff.
> 
> H has talked in the past about wanting to harden him up before he gets older. So he does not get bullied at school.
> 
> ...


You didn't say anything offensive at all. You said something about YOUR son (he's yours too) because you see your son exhibiting feminine characteristics. It doesn't mean your son is going to be gay, but it's not a far leap to think it.

Your husband's reaction is because HE SEES it and has thought it and isn't ready to accept the possibility that his son is gay and he battles this issue by puffing out his chest etc.

Just be prepared to battle your husband IF your son continues this trait.

My 4 year old, who's VERY "boy", came home the other day all excited because he wore a "dress" at school (it was an apron). He asked his teachers if he could and they said yes. He asked me if he could and I said yes sometimes. But not when we go to church etc. LOL. I'm a Scot and I explained what a kilt was (don't own one any longer but I will be getting one again. The one I had when I competed at The Scottish Games, didn't fit and was thrown out GRRRR dang ex wife). But I also explained how usually boys don't wear dresses. I just didn't make a big deal about it and took the opportunity to show differences in societies.

PS if your husband has an issue with dresses, take him to the Scottish Games and have him make a crack about dresses around a bunch of big men who for fun throw telephone poles, like to drink and have REALLY hot tempers.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Just to clarify, I meant that if he tells his mother about this or other problems, and she's offended/shocked/bothered (AKA "who would say that") this might just entrench the feeling of anger/shock/disrespect even if there is an apology. 

IE - how a woman might tell her friends a story about her husband in passing, which might have bothered her to a certain degree, but after all her friends encourage her to think its the most awful thing ever - her feelings about the whole thing are over-intensified. 

And hence - something that could come from this experience, even if nothing else, is a discussion about boundaries and the involvement of his mother in high-emotion marital issues.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Our youngest son (preschooler) is an emotional child. Is really into dolls and traditionally "girlie" stuff.
> 
> H has talked in the past about wanting to harden him up before he gets older. So he does not get bullied at school.
> 
> ...



Sergeant Hulka, the movie Stripes (1981): “Lighten up, Francis”

Psyco - Lighten up Francis - YouTube
​Pretty much that’s all that needs to be said.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> Just to clarify, I meant that if he tells his mother about this or other problems, and she's offended/shocked/bothered (AKA "who would say that") this might just entrench the feeling of anger/shock/disrespect even if there is an apology.
> 
> IE - how a woman might tell her friends a story about her husband in passing, which might have bothered her to a certain degree, but after all her friends encourage her to think its the most awful thing ever - her feelings about the whole thing are over-intensified.
> 
> And hence - something that could come from this experience, even if nothing else, is a discussion about boundaries and the involvement of his mother in high-emotion marital issues.


Totally agree with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I'm going to be straight with you because people tend to represent themesleves the way they hope people will accept them.
> 
> That would have struck a nerve with me.
> 
> It would be more about me as a father and role model and my child deviating from my example than what he would like as an adult. That's just me though.


A child is not an extension or a reflection of a parent. A child is an independent human being and deserves to be acknowledged as such.

And, OP, clearly your husband *is* homophobic, since he views being called gay as a terrible insult. What else do you ink homophobia is?


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