# Is it possible to be "partly" a Nice Guy?



## angler 420 (Dec 4, 2012)

I have been here for a few weeks now and have read a lot of the related posts. I did start one a few weeks ago and got some great advice.

With the help and indirect recommendations of everyone here, I ordered and read, "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Reading the description before I bought the book I was very excited, but now that I have finished it, I don't feel a lot of it applies to me. Maybe I am in denial and don't want to believe I am a total Nice Guy, but here are my observations.

1. I am a big risk taker. I have owned 3 businesses, 2 of them I started from nothing. All fairly successful until 2008 recession hit.

2. I am fairly confident. Was VERY confident, (maybe even a little c0cky) when I was younger. I have matured since then and am not as c0cky, but am still a fairly confident person.

3. Even though I don't follow professional sports, ie baseball, football, etc., I grew up very involved in sports. Still play some tennis, although not much lately.

4. Have always enjoyed a great relationship with my father. Was very close to him as a child and talk to him on the phone 3-4 times a week. He lives on the other side of the country. We have gone on fishing trips together with other guys,no woman, remote camping, and living off of the fish we caught. 

5. I grew up doing very "manly" things. We hunted, fished, did all of our own carpentry, grew our own vegetables, and played football, baseball, and hockey in our backyard. ( I am the oldest of 3 boys)

6. I have a lot of male friends and feel very comfortable around men.

Now, That being said, I have a lot of "Nice Guy" traits.

1. I always place other other peoples needs first. To the point where I rarely get what i want. I have always told myself that these are "wants" and not needs. The book helped me recognize this.

2. I avoid (at all cost) confrontation with my wife. I am in upper management in my job and have no problem with it at work, even with employees much older than myself.

3. I used lie to my wife a lot to avoid confrontation. I ended going to an IC for this issue. In hind sight, we never did get to the "reason" I did it, just how to stop it. It got better, but I still find myself lying occasionally, usually through omission.

4. My wife and I do not have the sex life I desire. 

5. I rarely get angry, and when I do, I repress the feeling and try not to show it. I have recently discovered this is called "resentment":scratchhead: I say I try not to show my anger, but as most of you know, my body language lets my wife know exactly how I am feeling. 

6. I do most of the housework, and am always trying to do other things to please my wife.

As some of you know (from my original thread), I am in a unique situation with my wife. She has a very serious health condition that makes her very sick a lot. I end up having to do a lot of the work during these times. And of course, the sex will drop off to none, as she really can't (and shouldn't be expected) to perform. The problem we have, is once she gets treatment and starts to feel better, we are in this pattern and I continue to "care give", even though she is capable of doing things herself and she of course doesn't mind getting waited on. It has become difficult to switch back and forth. There is probably a lot more info that I am not sharing, but I just wanted to get the conversation started. I'd like to "man-up" a little bit, but don't want to become a complete douche. Some of what I read in the book I found odd and I find men with some of these traits as plain rude and self centered. 

A quick background:

First marriage for both of us.

21 years of marriage

No children

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. I look forward to hearing some of the replies.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I remember your last thread, the *care giving* throws a monkey wrench into all of this. The 1st part sounds very healthy- manly - like wow - how could this type even fall into any of that... 

Then everything you outlined that fall into the "Nice Guy" category - was on target for being one .... but then you have the unique situation of being a Care Giver to a very sick wife....

I am not sure how much Manning up one can do - under those circumstances...you have to evaluate each one & access if she is taking advantage of you... This switching back in forth stuff -depending on how she is feeling /her treatment ... has also got to be very difficult... 

It's like you need to be Superman... makes me think of the words of this song.... 

Superman-Ronan Keating - YouTube




> 1. I always place other other peoples needs first. To the point where I rarely get what i want. I have always told myself that these are "wants" and not needs. The book helped me recognize this.


 Can you share your deepest NEEDS , those you feel are hurting you inside -enough to grow this resentment, always putting yourself on the back burner .. 

In your situation, surely you can still be a reasonable loving caring husband and push some of these to the forefront - without it being disrespectful or dishonorable to her. Maybe she needs to be more understanding of all you do for her...place herself in your shoes ..... I feel often when we are so good to our partner....they can slip into taking us for granted...and this is not Ok. 



> 2. I avoid (at all cost) confrontation with my wife. I am in upper management in my job and have no problem with it at work, even with employees much older than myself.


 Do you feel being honest with your real feelings will crush her, maybe you are giving her too much credit here...again, this is speaking up for your needs, feelings in a given situation. How have you avoided confrontation -examples?



> 3. I used lie to my wife a lot to avoid confrontation. I ended going to an IC for this issue. In hind sight, we never did get to the "reason" I did it, just how to stop it. It got better, but I still find myself lying occasionally, usually through omission.


 I think near everyone does some of these lies of omission...one of my threads >> 








http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...s-why-people-lie-how-much-acceptable-you.html









Does these lies of omission bother your conscience? You know her well enough, if you told her the truth, as you've gotten better at this after IC... has this helped your marriage ...has it brought you closer to her.. or caused more drama, her hurt reactions... more questioning, distrust? Most people don't willingly invite that into their lives if a spouse can't handle the truth or respect it.




> 4. My wife and I do not have the sex life I desire.


 But this isn't possible -because of her condition, as you have stated. It's one of those Serenity prayer things...Still this has to be very difficult to deal with ...












> 5. I rarely get angry, and when I do, *I repress the feeling and try not to show it*. I have recently discovered this is called "resentment" I say I try not to show my anger, but as most of you know, my body language lets my wife know exactly how I am feeling.


 There will always be a fair amount of resentment for spousal caregivers (I can't even begin to understand what you struggle with)....I'd think this comes with the territory unfortunately.....to forgive yourself 1st ...not expect so much from yourself...is a step to regaining some balance . 

Caregiver Anger and Resentment | 7 Deadly Caregiving Emotions



> 6. I do most of the housework, and am always trying to do other things to please my wife.


 Could you afford to hire someone to help you with these things? To take some of the load off of yourself. You have just tried to be the dutiful loving husband.... Is it possible you have enabled her to Do less than what she is capable of doing?....


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

It's possible to be partly a nice guy. But you are all nice guy, not part. All the sports and hunting and starting businesses doesn't count for anything. It won't make her see you as a man. The only thing that matters is how you behave towards your wife. 

Being afraid of confrontation is the mother of all sex killers. She can smell your fear and will use it to control you. At work, with your employees, you can fire them. But you are obviously too scared to fire your wife for any reason and she knows it.

I'm not saying you should be a "total douche" and completely neglect taking care of her, but you should not tolerate becoming her nurse even when she is not very sick. As she gets better she should require less care and attention from you, and should be able to take more care of herself. It's also better for her to be more active, it stimulates the healing process.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I hear you angler.

I think it's a sliding scale as to how much you anyone fits it. You and I both have nice guy traits as do many. Well I did have those more when married the first time. It slowly snuck up on me because it wasn't actually in my personality.

I do put a lot of credibility in the concepts of NMMNG. It's what made me realize that I was also at fault in my first marriage for being (well a nice guy). It's also the things I fixed in myself while singe even though I had never read NMMNG. Just deciding your needs matter too and havng confidence makes most of those nice guy traits dissapear forever.


----------



## angler 420 (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the replies. SimplyA, I was honestly hoping you would reply as I respect and agree with a lot of your other posts and really appreciated your advice on my "caregiver" post.

East2West: I agree with your assessment of me being a "Nice Guy completely. My posting about all the "manly" things I do, was more to do with directly referencing the book, " No More Mr Nice Guy". The book gives the reason guys are like this, and a big reason he gives is because "nice guys" are not comfortable with their masculinity. In the end, I guess it really doesn't matter why I am this way, I just need to focus on changing my behavior. Thank you again for the advice and being so blunt. 

Thundarr: First of all, I love you avatar! As far as your reply goes, I wasn't trying to disregard the book entirely. I recognize that I certainly have a lot of Nice Guy traits, and the book is helping me correct some of those. Like I wrote in my reply to East2West, I just didn't think I fit the mold entirely, (if there is such a thing). Frankly, all the masculinity talk in the book was distracting for me. A fair amount of materiel in that book is centered around that. Maybe I just took it all too literal. Everyone is different and unique so maybe there isn't a "mold" of a Nice Guy.

Simply A: I really appreciate you taking so much time to respond to my post. You obviously put a lot of thought into it and took the time to type it all our for me. I am going to type another reply with the steps I have taken so far. One big positive I have going for me, is my wife is 100% on board with me bettering myself and encourages it. She is set back sometimes lately when I stand up for myself, but I can't blame her as I have been a doormat most of our marriage and this is all new to her. I know the caregiver role throws a monkey wrench into my situation, but I sometimes find myself accepting and justifying my behavior because of my wife's illness and I can't do that. Like you said, it's not "ok" to be taken advantage of. I honestly don't think my wife intentionally takes advantage of me, but after 21 years of this, it's kind of the way things are now. Thank you again for your concern and please feel free to offer up any more advice and recommendations. Like I said, I am going to be posting a few of the changes I am in the process of making in my next post.


----------



## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I just read the book as well. While I see the parts that do apply and how they apply to me, not everything does. It only pertains to my intimate relationships, not anything beyond that. Which does make it a little difficult to try and figure out how and where to incorporate some of the ideas.


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

angler 420 said:


> East2West: I agree with your assessment of me being a "Nice Guy completely. My posting about all the "manly" things I do, was more to do with directly referencing the book, " No More Mr Nice Guy". The book gives the reason guys are like this, and a big reason he gives is because "nice guys" are not comfortable with their masculinity. In the end, I guess it really doesn't matter why I am this way, I just need to focus on changing my behavior. Thank you again for the advice and being so blunt.


The reason I mentioned it is because I think the manosphere community puts way too much emphasis on doing stereotypical man stuff like cars, sports, money, beer, driving fence posts and chopping wood. If those things attracted females then there would not be so many sexless marriages.

I am a total introvert computer nerd. I have no idea how a car works. I hate any kind of manual labor. I am only interested in loner sports like skiing and mountain biking. My wife even brought the tools into the relationship. And for the time being she is the breadwinner even. The only remotely "manly" thing I do is to stay in the best physical shape of my life.

And I still get laid like tile.

It doesn't matter if you are diaper changing apron wearing stay at home dad. But she will test you, and when she does, you have to be extremely firm in demanding respect for your contribution to the relationship. You absolutely cannot tolerate any disrespect. When you bring her that bowl of soup you had better get a thank you and kiss, not a pissy demand for something else that she wants. This is the part I think you are missing.


----------

