# H caught checking out my friends boobs!



## bellawhite

I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MeditMike80

Your husband sounds pretty normal to me. I check out women's eyes, noobs, and butt. When I'm with my wife I TRY not to but I still do and I'd I'm not subtle enough she gives me a playful smack on the chest. I don't really see why women get so upset about it. If I see my wife checking another guy out unusually say "he's hot, isn't he." She usually turns beet red and tries to deny looking. Just relax and don't be so uptight. Play it off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

The question is, is 4-6 times a month horrible for him? What does he want?

It's normal for men to check out other women. Most men, even happily married men who are getting all the sex they want, will check out women. They seem to be wired that way. He should be very discrete about it. 

Men think about sex every 7 seconds on average. A man who looks at other women isn't thinking, "gee I wish I could dump my wife and get a piece of that." He is just noticing, harmless and normal noticing.

It might be best if you didn't confront him unless he's being blatant about it. It would definitely be best if you had a grasp for how well you are meeting his sexual needs, and what he needed to do to meet yours, so you stop feeling threatened by harmless, normal behavior.

Lighten up. Pucker up and enjoy your husband!


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## EleGirl

Him looking at her boobs is normal. 

Do you turn him down for sex very often.


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## bellawhite

I do. And when i see him doing something like that, its a huge turnoff for me! Like when we start playing around, the image of him looking at my friends boobs pops in my head and turns me off big time, bc it makes me feel like a big piece of meat he is after, and a loving caring H would not be checking out other women! Guess i'm wrong! Lol
I know i most likely dont meet his sexual needs bc to me sex shouldnt be number 1 in marriage, but to him its a pretty big deal, he says it makes him feel connected! I think his ideal would be 3 times a week! And our 4-6 times is like him begging me and me saying fine, not really bc i want to! But when we do it, its realllyyy good, not just ok boring sex!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

It sounds like he isn't meeting your need for emotional connection, meanwhile he gets his emotional connection through sex.

Go to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and print out two of the emotional needs check list. You might find the real source of the issue here.


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## bellawhite

Thanks anon! I'm going to check out the list, I hope I can something bc my H deserves better than pitty sex! (Sex bc i feel like i have to)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake

Relax. He didn't go blind when he married you. He will notice other women till the day he dies, that doesn't mean a thing about how he feels about you. It's just the way men are. Are you saying you never notice a good looking guy? Just because a guy has assets that draw your attention briefly doesn't affect how you feel or view your husband does it? 
Everyone likes boobs. YOU noticed your friends boobs and you noticed your husband noticing them. Relax, it's all good.


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## jaquen

If you don't want a husband that checks out other women's boobs...

Marry a woman.



bellawhite said:


> its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Clearly it's horrible to your husband if he threw it in your face. What we think about that volume of sex doesn't matter much when your husband isn't happy.



bellawhite said:


> he says it makes him feel connected! I think his ideal would be 3 times a week! And our 4-6 times is like him begging me and me saying fine, not really bc i want to! But when we do it, its realllyyy good, not just ok boring sex!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, what? Your husband's ideal is about 12-14 times a month, you have sex with him less than half that amount, and you make him beg for the little bit of sex you begrudgingly do give him, and all because you believe sex shouldn't be the "number 1" part of a marriage?

Are you _trying_ to become a regular poster on the "coping with infidelity" and/or "going through divorce or separation" sections of this board?


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## hambone

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just a red-blooded American male doing what Red-blooded American males do.

Nobody loves their wife anymore than I love mine. I look all the time and it means absolutely nothing.

When will I know I'm getting old? When I'm walking down the beach with my wife and she elbows me in the ribs and I ask, "What was that for???" And, she replies, "Oh.. you'll see her in a minute!" 

My wife has actually told me on more than one occasion.. "I don't care where you work up the appetite... as long as you come home for supper!" 

I've got a great wife!!!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My husband doesn't do this. I actually look to see if he does. If he actually does do this, it's very subtle.

If I were upset over it, I'd probably start making a point to check out guys up and down. I'd also make sure he knew I was too.

My husband was a bit bothered that I watched a little porn while he was at work. I only watched 2 minutes before I turned it off and was disgusted about it. It's not my thing, but the video came free with a few toys I ordered.


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## Accipiter777

Just because youre on a diet, dont mean you cant look at the menu!


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## Curse of Millhaven

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone. Same thing happened to me and I reacted as you did. I was hurt, angry, and disappointed. But mostly angry. I wanted to jump on my husband’s head like a rabid spider monkey, rip his eyeballs out of his skull, and chuck them down my friend’s shirt screaming “here get a closer look, Rodin!!” I mean he stared so hard he was obviously memorizing them for his next marble masterpiece…only he doesn’t sculpt! 

Of course, my situation is different than yours in that my husband treats me like a leper in the bedroom as if he’s afraid that if he touches me his d!ck will fall off. Thus it was beyond flattering and a total boost to my ego when he stared at my friend’s milk jugs like her cleavage contained the secrets of the universe. I don’t know if your husband gave your friend’s assets a passing glance or if he eyefvcked her like my husband did my friend, but in my humble opinion if your partner cares about you he should be able to control his “wandering eye” long enough to spare your feelings. Wandering eye…WTF? Do cheaters just have wandering penises and vaginas? “Can’t help it, babe, it’s my wandering penis! My wandering eye spread to my dong, you know, it’s scientific and medical and sh!t!!”

I mean I manage not to eyefvck friends and strangers even though my marriage is on life support. And I have some really attractive friends of both sexes and I have a pulse, but I have enough regard for my husband (deserved or undeserved as the case may be) not to disrespect him or our marriage like that. My take on this is against the grain it seems. I don’t understand the rationale that you should “just get over it” because he is a man and it’s “normal” behavior for men. So men are just helpless to their biology and have no self-determination? 

I don’t expect my husband to be a neuter or to wear horse blinders but I also don’t enjoy him staring at other women’s t!ts like he’s going to need to describe them to a police sketch artist later! It’s disrespectful. I fully expect him to notice attractive women and their breasts…just when I am not with him. Is that sincerely too much to ask? Guess I need to get busy building my time machine and get my ass back to Victorian England.

Your husband has let you know that his “wandering eye” is directly related to his dissatisfaction with the amount of sex in your relationship. Excuse or not, he has opened up to you and you should treat his concerns with the consideration they deserve. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you!


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## bellawhite

Curse of millhaven- good details in describing your thoughts! Lol and i do agree with u that it shouldnt be 'i'm a man' excuse. An also that i should take his feelings into consideration!
But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
Understand why sex is sooo important to them, or him! I think he values that more than the fact we are a family and have kids together, that is a huge connection in itself! Oh and i do appreciate all the reaponses and read and think them through carefully! And no i'm not purposefully trying to be a future poster in the infedelity section, its not my fault im not sex crazy, if he wanted sex twice a day
He should have married a man, jk!
But seriously?
Sex sex sex, it makes me nuts just thinking about it! Id seriously be ok with it once a month, and when he checks out other boobs, once a year!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

That's a serious problem bella.

I myself never understood why women want affection.
Kind of a pain in the ass to always be soothing her insecurities by showing her I love her.

See what I did there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellawhite

Tacoma, haha yeap! I know i know makes sense! Darn :/ lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 1971

bellawhite said:


> But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Bella,

I'm female and I don't want to sound harsh but I also need sex to feel connected to my husband. I need affection, attention and an emotion connection too.

We have been married 10 years and I've never had wondering eyes but because I don't get what I need I've have started to look. I have told my husband that he needs to start looking after me before I go elsewhere.

I really enjoy sex, I would love it most days I truly don't understand why some females don't enjoy the experience.:scratchhead:

Start enjoying your husband. You might love it.


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## *LittleDeer*

I think it was very disrespectful of him to check out your friends boobs. I would be hurt and upset by that. 

But he also has a right to be upset about the lack of sex. 

Do you get your needs met by him? Does he compliment you? Do you spend plenty of alone time together? Does he plan dates for you and surprise you? Is he loving and caring? 

What is the household division of chores like? Do you both work? Do you have children? 

Do you value your husbands input and opinion?


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## youkiddingme

So.... here is the deal. Yes, men check out other women's boobs and buts. Your husband is just a jerk for getting caught. All men do it... the rest lie about it. It's not nice but it is what it is.

However, your husband is being a jerk on a second count. He is blaming the fact that he did it on you. That is simply a childish move. He would do it even if he was getting it every night. So don't take that crap. Do not believe it and do not take responsibility for it. Do not allow him to say it. 

But you should know....you need to be having sex more. Your numbers are in fact very low. You are both missing out on a LOT.


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## wondering12

Men and women notice other attractive people. It's natural. 

I think its crosses the line when the attraction involves friends. Who would like a girlfriend to date an ex boyfriend? If it happened wouldn't it make you wonder what the intentions were when a new boyfriend starting flirting or ogling your girlfriend? 

For me, it is an unwritten law.. call it loyalty and respect.


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## Curse of Millhaven

bellawhite said:


> Curse of millhaven- good details in describing your thoughts! Lol and i do agree with u that it shouldnt be 'i'm a man' excuse. An also that i should take his feelings into consideration!
> But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
> Understand why sex is sooo important to them, or him! I think he values that more than the fact we are a family and have kids together, that is a huge connection in itself! Oh and i do appreciate all the reaponses and read and think them through carefully! And no i'm not purposefully trying to be a future poster in the infedelity section, its not my fault im not sex crazy, if he wanted sex twice a day
> He should have married a man, jk!
> But seriously?
> Sex sex sex, it makes me nuts just thinking about it! Id seriously be ok with it once a month, and when he checks out other boobs, once a year!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I don’t think the need for sexual intimacy is gender specific. I’m a woman and I absolutely love sex and if I had my druthers I would have it near daily; I need it to feel emotionally connected to my partner otherwise what’s the point of an intimate relationship…? Take out a mutually satisfying sex life and you’re just cohabiting and friends without benefits. Sex is absolutely imperative to a healthy marriage/relationship and ideally both partners should feel safe and comfortable enough with each other to discuss their wants and needs without it devolving into blame shifting and disrespectful behavior (e.g., eyefvcking friends). Similarly both should love and respect each other enough to try their best to fulfill their partner’s needs and desires (within reason of course), without belittling or minimizing those needs.

Wanting sex with his wife and being a devoted father/husband are not mutually exclusive. I don’t think him valuing sex with you automatically devalues his commitment to you and your children or your family. It just means having a sexual connection with his wife is very important to him…the problem with that is what exactly?


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## unbelievable

If he's a guy and there's a set of breasts anywhere near his grid coordinates, he will check them out. Being married, he should have enough sense to do so discreetly. If he was checking out guys' packages, you'd have a problem. He's into girls and I gather that was a feature you wanted in a mate. He just needs to work on being stealthy. If he were getting laid 10 times a day he'd still notice a set of hooters. My dog would notice steak even after I feed him. If all he's doing is looking, you just have a normal guy.


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## jaquen

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone. Same thing happened to me and I reacted as you did. I was hurt, angry, and disappointed. But mostly angry. I wanted to jump on my husband’s head like a rabid spider monkey, rip his eyeballs out of his skull, and chuck them down my friend’s shirt screaming “here get a closer look, Rodin!!” I mean he stared so hard he was obviously memorizing them for his next marble masterpiece…only he doesn’t sculpt!
> 
> Of course, my situation is different than yours in that my husband treats me like a leper in the bedroom as if he’s afraid that if he touches me his d!ck will fall off. Thus it was beyond flattering and a total boost to my ego when he stared at my friend’s milk jugs like her cleavage contained the secrets of the universe. I don’t know if your husband gave your friend’s assets a passing glance or if he eyefvcked her like my husband did my friend, but in my humble opinion if your partner cares about you he should be able to control his “wandering eye” long enough to spare your feelings. Wandering eye…WTF? Do cheaters just have wandering penises and vaginas? “Can’t help it, babe, it’s my wandering penis! My wandering eye spread to my dong, you know, it’s scientific and medical and sh!t!!”
> 
> I mean I manage not to eyefvck friends and strangers even though my marriage is on life support. And I have some really attractive friends of both sexes and I have a pulse, but I have enough regard for my husband (deserved or undeserved as the case may be) not to disrespect him or our marriage like that. My take on this is against the grain it seems. I don’t understand the rationale that you should “just get over it” because he is a man and it’s “normal” behavior for men. So men are just helpless to their biology and have no self-determination?
> 
> I don’t expect my husband to be a neuter or to wear horse blinders but I also don’t enjoy him staring at other women’s t!ts like he’s going to need to describe them to a police sketch artist later! It’s disrespectful. I fully expect him to notice attractive women and their breasts…just when I am not with him. Is that sincerely too much to ask? Guess I need to get busy building my time machine and get my ass back to Victorian England.
> 
> Your husband has let you know that his “wandering eye” is directly related to his dissatisfaction with the amount of sex in your relationship. Excuse or not, he has opened up to you and you should treat his concerns with the consideration they deserve. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you!


This has got to be the most witty post I've read on this board...ever. :rofl:


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## jaquen

bellawhite said:


> Curse of millhaven- good details in describing your thoughts! Lol and i do agree with u that it shouldnt be 'i'm a man' excuse. An also that i should take his feelings into consideration!
> But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
> Understand why sex is sooo important to them, or him! I think he values that more than the fact we are a family and have kids together, that is a huge connection in itself! Oh and i do appreciate all the reaponses and read and think them through carefully! And no i'm not purposefully trying to be a future poster in the infedelity section, its not my fault im not sex crazy, if he wanted sex twice a day
> He should have married a man, jk!
> But seriously?
> Sex sex sex, it makes me nuts just thinking about it! Id seriously be ok with it once a month, and when he checks out other boobs, once a year!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You shouldn't be married to this man. I'm not saying that there isn't A man who will share your world view, but your problem is, and likely always will be, that _this_ man doesn't. The very fact that you have zero respect for the fact that biologically many men (and plenty of women too) need sex to feel at their most emotionally connected is telling. You exhibit absolutely no real understanding of your husband, or men in general, in your posts. This is unfortunate for the both of you.

Sounds like you guys made the very common mistake of just marrying the wrong people.


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## Eagle441977

I check out women all the time. its normal. I would never cheat and I still think my wife is the sexiest woman alive, but I do appreciate the female form.


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## Holland

I don't have an issue if SO checks out another woman, shows he is still alive and kicking which is exactly how I want him.


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## EleGirl

bellawhite said:


> I do. And when i see him doing something like that, its a huge turnoff for me! Like when we start playing around, the image of him looking at my friends boobs pops in my head and turns me off big time, bc it makes me feel like a big piece of meat he is after, and a loving caring H would not be checking out other women! Guess i'm wrong! Lol
> I know i most likely dont meet his sexual needs bc to me sex shouldnt be number 1 in marriage, but to him its a pretty big deal, he says it makes him feel connected! I think his ideal would be 3 times a week! And our 4-6 times is like him begging me and me saying fine, not really bc i want to! But when we do it, its realllyyy good, not just ok boring sex!


If it's really good, why don't you want it more often?


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## EleGirl

bellawhite said:


> Curse of millhaven- good details in describing your thoughts! Lol and i do agree with u that it shouldnt be 'i'm a man' excuse. An also that i should take his feelings into consideration!
> But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
> Understand why sex is sooo important to them, or him! I think he values that more than the fact we are a family and have kids together, that is a huge connection in itself! Oh and i do appreciate all the reaponses and read and think them through carefully! And no i'm not purposefully trying to be a future poster in the infedelity section, its not my fault im not sex crazy, if he wanted sex twice a day
> He should have married a man, jk!
> But seriously?
> Sex sex sex, it makes me nuts just thinking about it! Id seriously be ok with it once a month, and when he checks out other boobs, once a year!


Are you familiar with the hormone Oxytocin? It's a very powerful hormone. Its purpose is to make a the couple feel emotionally connected. Large amounts of it are secreted during sex. Your husband, like most men and women, need to get their levels of Oxytocin (and other similar hormones) higher every few days to feel the ‘in love’ feeling and a strong emotional bond.

Sex also increases the brains production of dopamine, endorphins and other feel good chemicals. Without these your husband will no feel like he’s in-love with you. 

By having sex with your husband as seldom as you are, you are creating a situation that kills his emotional connection to you to be broken. Thus he does not feel connected to you… and that makes him want to look elsewhere for the bonding.

But it’s not just his levels of these hormones and chemicals that will slowly be depleted. So will yours. The way you talk about your husband, why does he need the sex… sex, sex, sex and other things you are saying about him. He annoys you often these days doesn’t he? The source of this is that your oxytocin levels are low. The lower they get, the more annoyed you will feel towards him and the less you will want sex with him. Eventually you will get to the point where you do not want him to touch you. 

Humans are chemical engines. Everything we think and feel depends on the hormones and brain chemicals we produce. To ask why your husband feels a need for sex to feel connected is as ask why he is human. 

Your withholding sex is killing your marriage. You are choosing to do this. Then you wonder why your husband is looking at other women?


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## Cosmos

> *EleGirl said*: Are you familiar with the hormone Oxytocin? It's a very powerful hormone. Its purpose is to make a the couple feel emotionally connected. Large amounts of it are secreted during sex. Your husband, like most men and women, need to get their levels of Oxytocin (and other similar hormones) higher every few days to feel the ‘in love’ feeling and a strong emotional bond.
> 
> Sex also increases the brains production of dopamine, endorphins and other feel good chemicals. Without these your husband will no feel like he’s in-love with you.
> 
> By having sex with your husband as seldom as you are, you are creating a situation that kills his emotional connection to you to be broken. Thus he does not feel connected to you… and that makes him want to look elsewhere for the bonding.
> 
> But it’s not just his levels of these hormones and chemicals that will slowly be depleted. So will yours. The way you talk about your husband, why does he need the sex… sex, sex, sex and other things you are saying about him. He annoys you often these days doesn’t he? The source of this is that your oxytocin levels are low. The lower they get, the more annoyed you will feel towards him and the less you will want sex with him. Eventually you will get to the point where you do not want him to touch you.
> 
> Humans are chemical engines. Everything we think and feel depends on the hormones and brain chemicals we produce. To ask why your husband feels a need for sex to feel connected is as ask why he is human.
> 
> Your withholding sex is killing your marriage. You are choosing to do this. Then you wonder why your husband is looking at other women?


:iagree: with all of the above.

When people aren't having the amount of sex they want, I think it's natural that their minds and eyes will wander - and this needs addressing. 

Having said that, your H shouldn't be making it _quite _so obvious that he's checking out your friend's breasts...


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## Mike11

I fail to see what he had done wrong, he is a man and by being married to you he did not stop being one


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## bfree

1971 said:


> Hi Bella,
> 
> I'm female and I don't want to sound harsh but I also need sex to feel connected to my husband. I need affection, attention and an emotion connection too.
> 
> We have been married 10 years and I've never had wondering eyes but because I don't get what I need I've have started to look. I have told my husband that he needs to start looking after me before I go elsewhere.
> 
> I really enjoy sex, I would love it most days I truly don't understand why some females don't enjoy the experience.:scratchhead:
> 
> Start enjoying your husband. You might love it.


Thank you for reminding everyone that wanting more sex is not always a "man thing." Its a "human thing."

We must take more care to remind ourselves that we do not live in a vacuum. The attitudes and feelings of those we love and love us affect our lives greatly.

And to the OP, if my wife ever caught me checking out another woman's breasts I dare say her response would be to good naturedly remove her blouse and ask me if there was something wrong with hers. I'll leave it to you to guess where that would lead.


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## Interlocutor

The OP would prefer to have sex once a month, and that's with her husband behaving well and meeting her needs, otherwise it'd be once a year?

Sex is not number 1?

Sex is THE number one feature that makes a marriage different from other relationships, a sexual relationship vs a friendship or relative.

Considering she feels this way, it's not surprising she wouldn't understand what it's like to have sexual feelings and want to look at boobs. He's probably looking at those boobs like a sad puppy looking through a glass patio door from outside stuck in the rain.

Poor bastard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

If you don't think sex is important for maintaining a healthy emotional connection, then I guess you wouldn't mind if your husband had sex with someone else? You know, because it isn't important and all that...

Having said that... He should have been more discrete. 

C


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## tacoma

He should have simply not done it.

Certainly my first biological urge is to admire a pretty woman but my second response is generally "Hey, don't be creepy" & at that point I just don't be creepy.

The OP does need to work on her attitude about sex in her marriage because it'll lead to much bigger problems than wandering eyes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen

Cosmos said:


> Having said that, your H shouldn't be making it _quite _so obvious that he's checking out your friend's breasts...


Which just makes me wonder if his hyper obvious, very rude ogling of her friend's breasts really was a passive aggressive, maybe unconscious, way to both punish her for her chronic withholding and get her to wake up and see his needs.

We all look. But most of us are well aware of how to be discreet about it, especially if we're with our wives. Clearly there is more going on with this man.


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## Stonewall

absolutely normal. Its purely biological.


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## Suspecting

I think it's normal only if it had been a random woman. Many posters probably missed the part that in this case it was her friend and that makes it disrespectful towards the OP.


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## jaquen

Checking out her friend's wrack is not disrespectful.

Openly gawking at her friend's wrack, and in front of her no less, is disrespectful.


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## WellyVamp

I catch my partner checking out my best friend's boobs, legs and butt all the time, but at least he tries to be discrete about it. 

I was a bit put out recently, when my friend was describing a dirty film she'd seen. He grabbed the throw off the sofa and draped it casually over his lap. He clearly had some stirrings going on in his underpants!

Basically, just blatantly perving over your friend is wrong, but having a sneaky peek is nothing to be concerned about. I know my partner fancies my friend, but I can't stop that. I fancy people besides my partner. It's all fine if both people have a healthy sense of boundaries and appropriate behaviour.


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## gbrad

Mike11 said:


> I fail to see what he had done wrong, he is a man and by being married to you he did not stop being one


Exactly. It is like with any other beautiful thing. Just because you have seen one great sunset, doesn't mean you aren't going to notice others. Beauty is beauty, you want to look at it. 
As for the comment about not getting enough. 4-6 times in a month. Sounds like plenty to me. And even if it isn't, that is not the reason you look. You look because it is beautiful, the sex has nothing to do with it.


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## FormerSelf

I gotta admit it is pretty easy for us guys' eyes to latch onto the curves of an attractive female...and most of the time it is really without even trying. Yet, I think both genders will recognize the attributes of OW in public...as women often compare themselves to the competition they see...and guys are just hardwired to the visual, especially how they are displayed by the clothes designed to accentuate breasts and hips. That's the first thing I learned in art history...controlling the eyes of the appreciator...and it is no diff. in fashion...accentuate the positive. So it is very natural for all eyes to catch a view. But if there is complete eye-lock, comments, then I think that is pretty dishonorable. It is a fine line that one has to decided what he does. I can attest however, that the dry seasons of sex at home, made the struggle to honor my wife with my eyes a lot harder.
I also don't like to look cos as I work with a lot of pretty females, and while there are some that seek that sort of attention...I find it to be disrespectful to glare at them and create unnecessary tension and awkwardness...and I never want to be seen as a married man who plays the field and flirts...because that is my reputation. My wife is totally stupid for cheating on me and wanting to divorce...she has no idea how loyal I've been.


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## bellawhite

Aww formerself that is sweet, a loyal husband is the most important thing to most women id say, she doesnt know what great value she has lost! Thank you all for your comments i do appreciate all of them! But listen let me tell you a little bit about my history, i use to be in love with this boy since i was like 8 or 9, he was my first kiss, just a peck! Anyways, at 11 he called my mom and told her he wanted to date me, she thought it was cute bc his family was friends with mine and told him to wait until we were older, at 13 my friends boyfriend said he wanted me to meet a friend of his, turned out it was my childhood love! Well a month after talking and secretly meeting eachother , by the way he was like 19, we all went to a friends apartment, after a lottttttt of pressuring me, and playing around we had sex! The next day he drove me home, never called me again, and never saw him again! And i heard he went around saying i jusy laid there didnt do anything and i wasnt a virgin, thing is, i was! Could i be carrying around some trauma due to this? When hubby and i were dating we had a greatttttttttt sex life, as soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## *LittleDeer*

bellawhite said:


> Aww formerself that is sweet, a loyal husband is the most important thing to most women id say, she doesnt know what great value she has lost! Thank you all for your comments i do appreciate all of them! But listen let me tell you a little bit about my history, i use to be in love with this boy since i was like 8 or 9, he was my first kiss, just a peck! Anyways, at 11 he called my mom and told her he wanted to date me, she thought it was cute bc his family was friends with mine and told him to wait until we were older, at 13 my friends boyfriend said he wanted me to meet a friend of his, turned out it was my childhood love! Well a month after talking and secretly meeting eachother , by the way he was like 19, we all went to a friends apartment, after a lottttttt of pressuring me, and playing around we had sex! The next day he drove me home, never called me again, and never saw him again! And i heard he went around saying i jusy laid there didnt do anything and i wasnt a virgin, thing is, i was! Could i be carrying around some trauma due to this? When hubby and i were dating we had a greatttttttttt sex life, as soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need some Counseling. What that 19 yr old did to you was rape and it was very wrong. That must have been awful for you.  

That said being sexual as an adult and having a healthy sex life with your husband is something to strive for. Talk things out with your husband, talk about improving your sex life and the fact that him perving on your friend hurt your feelings. 

Hopefully you can both get your needs met and you can overcome your sexual problems.


----------



## FormerSelf

bellawhite said:


> Aww formerself that is sweet, a loyal husband is the most important thing to most women id say, she doesnt know what great value she has lost! Thank you all for your comments i do appreciate all of them! But listen let me tell you a little bit about my history, i use to be in love with this boy since i was like 8 or 9, he was my first kiss, just a peck! Anyways, at 11 he called my mom and told her he wanted to date me, she thought it was cute bc his family was friends with mine and told him to wait until we were older, at 13 my friends boyfriend said he wanted me to meet a friend of his, turned out it was my childhood love! Well a month after talking and secretly meeting eachother , by the way he was like 19, we all went to a friends apartment, after a lottttttt of pressuring me, and playing around we had sex! The next day he drove me home, never called me again, and never saw him again! And i heard he went around saying i jusy laid there didnt do anything and i wasnt a virgin, thing is, i was! Could i be carrying around some trauma due to this? When hubby and i were dating we had a greatttttttttt sex life, as soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I think although my wife appreciated my loyalty...I think she also took it for granted, and began seeing me with lower value, not as someone she needed to fight to keep me. No worse feeling than feeling "friendzoned" by your own spouse because they know your commitment and try to test boundaries and see what they could get away with. I guess I didn't communicate very well how much I actually needed her, even though my actions were demonstrative...it wasn't something she felt. 

Yeah, your past event could very well be related to your shut-down mode that you experience when it comes to physical intimacy with your husband...as it seemed that what was a complete act of innocence and love for your old crush was suddenly labelled as dirty and cheap. I would suppose that if you haven't really processed all that...then I could see shame cropping up as you try to be in that intimate vulnerability once again. My old counselor compares it to smacking your thumb with a hammer...hurts so bad that you avoid every means to hurt that bad again, and having normal intimacy with your husband may have you think you have to protect yourself again. Something to consider...but you would know best. But in retrospect of what I am going through now, you owe it to yourself to get some counseling, sex-therapy, hormone testing...whatever it may be, because everyone deserve a good shot at a happy marriage. I have learned that your marriage is either getting better or worse...don't assume it will always be a cruising altitude. Get on it. Have the best marriage you can get your hands on...especially if you have a mate who is willing to slug it out in the ring with you.


----------



## EleGirl

bellawhite said:


> Aww formerself that is sweet, a loyal husband is the most important thing to most women id say, she doesnt know what great value she has lost! Thank you all for your comments i do appreciate all of them! But listen let me tell you a little bit about my history, i use to be in love with this boy since i was like 8 or 9, he was my first kiss, just a peck! Anyways, at 11 he called my mom and told her he wanted to date me, she thought it was cute bc his family was friends with mine and told him to wait until we were older, at 13 my friends boyfriend said he wanted me to meet a friend of his, turned out it was my childhood love! Well a month after talking and secretly meeting eachother , by the way he was like 19, we all went to a friends apartment, after a lottttttt of pressuring me, and playing around we had sex! The next day he drove me home, never called me again, and never saw him again! And i heard he went around saying i jusy laid there didnt do anything and i wasnt a virgin, thing is, i was! Could i be carrying around some trauma due to this?


Where did your parents think you were over night? And yes, that experience was pretty bad. I'm sure is causes you problems. In a lot of places what he did is called rape. He was 19 and you were 13. What a creep.



bellawhite said:


> When hubby and i were dating we had a greatttttttttt sex life, as soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!


From your posts about your son it sounds like you are exhausted by dealing with him and your other child. If you are exhausted you will not feel like having sex. 

When was the last time you and your husband spent time together, just the 2 of you?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Past trauma aside, it seems to me that if you're not taking care of your man you should expect him to have a wandering eye at the very least. And be thankful that it stops there.


----------



## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> Past trauma aside, it seems to me that if you're not taking care of your man you should expect him to have a wandering eye at the very least. And be thankful that it stops there.


Sigh- got to agree with this, talk to him!


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## TiggyBlue

bellawhite said:


> As soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?


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## Caribbean Man

Suspecting said:


> I think it's normal only if it had been a random woman. *Many posters probably missed the part that in this case it was her friend and that makes it disrespectful towards the OP.*


:iagree:

I think that two issues are being confused here.

1]The sex frequency in the marriage.[ sexless marriage]

2]The husband's " wandering eye."[ His disrespectful behaviour ]

To assume that they are both inextricably linked may be a bit simplistic.

In addition, it's normal behaviour to look at women's breast/hips / anatomy, and vice versa. But respect for yourself , and your spouse's feelings should take precedence over your natural urges.


----------



## wondering12

" Sounds like you guys made the very common mistake of just marrying the wrong people...."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
There must have a been a reason(s) they were attracted to each other in the first place. Giving up is the easy way out. 

Maybe they need to learn to dig deep and find each other's find emotional needs, including sex, not being met.


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## ScarletBegonias

I thought everyone checked out boobs at some point or another?As long as there is no gawking or remarks happening,I don't see where the disrespect happened.
If one of SO's friends is standing there wearing tight pants and I can see the outline of his junk,I'm gonna glance at it a time or two.If one of my friends is wearing a shirt that outlines her breasts,I will look at them too.
SO would as well.I'm not seeing the disrespectful aspect of that.


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## WellyVamp

In my experience, men still eye up other women, no matter how much sex, love and attention they're getting at home. 

Mind you, a lack of sex won't help matters!


----------



## wondering12

W and I have a great relationship on many levels. I could bore you ..... if we didn't enjoy spending time with each other so much. Not just having sex but talking, ......
-------------------------------------------

How do you guys do it?


Nothing more I would love than to have my husband come home and talk about his day. When out with friends however, he loves to be the center of attention.


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## Cosmos

Suspecting said:


> I think it's normal only if it had been a random woman. Many posters probably missed the part that in this case it was her friend and that makes it disrespectful towards the OP.


:iagree:

This is highly relevant. Women know when they're being checked out, and no woman wants this sort of scenario with a friend... 

Years ago, I remember a friend's H actually commenting on my breasts - telling her that hers were like two fried eggs and suggesting that she have surgery and get a set like mine. Quite naturally, it caused a bit of tension between my friend and I.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Cosmos said:


> Years ago, I remember a friend's H actually commenting on my breasts - telling her that hers were like two fried eggs and suggesting that she have surgery and get a set like mine. Quite naturally, it caused a bit of tension between my friend and I.


That's beyond f**ked up.


----------



## Cosmos

ScarletBegonias said:


> That's beyond f**ked up.


You're telling me! My friend's H seemed to revel in making her jealous


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Cosmos said:


> You're telling me! My friend's H seemed to revel in making her jealous


my ex was this way.very sick if you ask me.


----------



## WellyVamp

Belittling your partner in front of others is a form of emotional abuse.


----------



## Cosmos

ScarletBegonias said:


> my ex was this way.very sick if you ask me.


Fortunately for my friend, I'm wasn't the type to feel flattered by his comments. He disrespected my friend - he disrespected me. However, there are women who use that kind of thing as one upmanship - even with their so-called friends.


----------



## WellyVamp

Cosmos said:


> Fortunately for my friend, I'm wasn't the type to feel flattered by his comments. He disrespected my friend - he disrespected me. However, there are women who use that kind of thing as one upmanship - even with their so-called friends.


I think we all know/have known women like this. I saw them called "frenemies" somehwere.


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## Tall Average Guy

Caribbean Man said:


> :In addition, it's normal behaviour to look at women's breast/hips / anatomy, and vice versa. But respect for yourself , and your spouse's feelings should take precedence over your natural urges.


My guess is that the husband does not feel his wife respects his feelings (because she quite clearly does not), and thus he does not feel the need to have a high level of respect for his wife's feelings.

I am also curious about the circumstances and what he actually did. Perhaps I missed it, but was he in fact completely obvious, or was it something more subtle that she caught. Is the friend one who wears more revealing outfits, or was it something he really need to work at to check out. To me, those details matter in deciding how much to condemn him.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Cosmos said:


> Fortunately for my friend, I'm wasn't the type to feel flattered by his comments. He disrespected my friend - he disrespected me. However, there are women who use that kind of thing as one upmanship - even with their so-called friends.


This happened to one of my friends and me, her boyfriend started trying say her as wasn't as 'perky' as mine. I just stated that I guess it comes down to taste because i've seen many guys check out her ass (which is true) and he shut right up. That sh*t really pisses me off.


----------



## Hicks

Is a good, fulfilling marriage important to you?

If the answer to that question is yes, you need a serious attidude adjustment. Your husband probably needs one too, but you can mainly start with working on yourself.

If the answer to that question is no, then no further action required.


----------



## bubbly girl

Tall Average Guy said:


> My guess is that the husband does not feel his wife respects his feelings (because she quite clearly does not), and thus he does not feel the need to have a high level of respect for his wife's feelings.


Exactly. Your husband is telling you his needs...more sex. You want him to take your feelings into account. Well you need to do the same for him. His wants may be different from yours, but they are just as important. Don't dismiss what he tells you. A happy marriage is all about mutual respect and taking care of each other. If things become one sided then resentment creeps in and its downhill from there.


----------



## doubletrouble

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This behavior disrespects you and the marriage. If he wanted to keep checking out other women he shouldn't've got married. Time for him to grow up.


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## wondering12

" My guess is that the husband does not feel his wife respects his feelings (because she quite clearly does not), and thus he does not feel the need to have a high level of respect for his wife's feelings."

Kind of you and the other thoughtful men on this thread to consider their wives feelings. However, other responders say it's natural, and are not doing it out of disrespect. 

Finding out if her H always acted that way before and at the start of their marriage would be helpful.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

wondering12 said:


> " My guess is that the husband does not feel his wife respects his feelings (because she quite clearly does not), and thus he does not feel the need to have a high level of respect for his wife's feelings."
> 
> Kind of you and the other thoughtful men on this thread to consider their wives feelings. However, other responders say it's natural, and are not doing it out of disrespect.


I do think it is natural to notice (which I consider checking out). It is not natural to leer, which would be disrespectful. This is part of what I wanted to know when I asked the OP about the circumstances of the event.


----------



## unbelievable

doubletrouble said:


> This behavior disrespects you and the marriage. If he wanted to keep checking out other women he shouldn't've got married. Time for him to grow up.


I missed the part of the ceremony where the groom's eyes were gouged out. A rather strict denomination, I suppose. I don't make an obvious deal about it but if there's a pair of hooters in my field of vision, married or not, I'll notice them. I don't choose to. I'm just not gay or blind.


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## WellyVamp

Clearly people in committed relationships notice attractive people, but leering at others in front of your partner isn't on - unless that is fine with them!

I'm not sure if OP meant that her husband was blatantly having a good old perv, or if she just caught him sneaking a quick glance.


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## Entropy3000

bellawhite said:


> I do. And when i see him doing something like that, its a huge turnoff for me! Like when we start playing around, the image of him looking at my friends boobs pops in my head and turns me off big time, bc it makes me feel like a big piece of meat he is after, and a loving caring H would not be checking out other women! Guess i'm wrong! Lol
> I know i most likely dont meet his sexual needs bc to me sex shouldnt be number 1 in marriage, but to him its a pretty big deal, he says it makes him feel connected! I think his ideal would be 3 times a week! And our 4-6 times is like him begging me and me saying fine, not really bc i want to! But when we do it, its realllyyy good, not just ok boring sex!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do His Needs Her Needs together. Needs and boundaries are covered. For most men Sexual fullfillment is their #1 emotional need. Right up there with Respect / Admiration.

My priorities :

1) To be my wifes exclusive lover.

2) To be her best male friend

3) To be her husband

This all should work together, but my point is thet without #1 the other two alone are not enough.


----------



## bellawhite

Elegirl-exactly, by the end of most days im soo tired and drained that sex is the last thing i want. My parents thought i was sleeping at my best friends house. And no ive never gotten my hormones checked but have thought about doing it many times, maybe i should act on it.

Thank u all for the helpful advice. But it is hard to understand why 4-6 times a month a sexless marriage, somedays thats like 2-3 times a week if u count out the week of ur cycle! I do think it can be a little hormonal too bc weve had weeks that it was 3 and then we would go 2 weeks with nothing and then like another 2 or 3 during the other week!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellawhite

Oh and by the way, we were out to dinner when this happened and he took a few glances, lets say 3 or 4, and she was wearing a low cut tube top!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy

bellawhite said:


> Oh and by the way, we were out to dinner when this happened and he took a few glances, lets say 3 or 4, and she was wearing a low cut tube top!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure does not seem like a lot. Any chance you are looking (even subconsciously) for a reason to not have sex with him? You post in response to Elegirl suggests someone who just is not interested in sex at all.


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## WellyVamp

bellawhite said:


> Oh and by the way, we were out to dinner when this happened and he took a few glances, lets say 3 or 4, and she was wearing a low cut tube top!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I honestly don't think this is a problem, and I mean that with sincere respect. 

In all honesty it just sounds like typical male behaviour. It crosses the line when the glances turn in to lingering, longing gazes. 

As a woman, if I was out and a man had a noticable trouser bulge, I don't think I would be able to stop myself from have a couple of quick glances, even a few. It would be out of curiosity more than anything else.


----------



## JCD

bellawhite said:


> Elegirl-exactly, by the end of most days im soo tired and drained that sex is the last thing i want. My parents thought i was sleeping at my best friends house. And no ive never gotten my hormones checked but have thought about doing it many times, maybe i should act on it.
> 
> Thank u all for the helpful advice. But it is hard to understand why 4-6 times a month a sexless marriage, somedays thats like 2-3 times a week if u count out the week of ur cycle! I do think it can be a little hormonal too bc weve had weeks that it was 3 and then we would go 2 weeks with nothing and then like another 2 or 3 during the other week!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





bellawhite said:


> Oh and by the way, we were out to dinner when this happened and he took a few glances, lets say 3 or 4, and she was wearing a low cut tube top!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Huh.

So...your friend put out an "Welcome" mat on her boobs and it's HIS fault? Yes, he should be discrete but as EVERY SINGLE MALE HAS TOLD YOU...it's natural. PASTORS note how well God designed Cindy. (They tend to glance a few times fewer than most men)

But on to the other quote: You can 'maximize' it all you want to. Bottom line is, your feelings don't mean a damn. HE feels undersexed. You can say it's twice a week (after you milk your monthly for as long as possible to stave off the inevitable...sorry, this is the attitude you are conveying) but I sincerely doubt it's 'high quality' sex.

And to put the cherry on top of the sundae, he's HAD a wonderful sex life with you...so he KNOWS you are capable of it. But now you won't.

I am sure you don't feel like it. Your feelings are valid too.

But

-You could ask him and other family members to help out so you aren't tired all the time. You aren't doing this.

-You could check your hormones because post pregnancy, they can get out of whack. You've ADMITED this has occured to you...but your husband isn't important enough to actually...you know...DO this.

-You are looking for things that the media, your girl friends, your mother and everyone on TAM has told you is a perfectly normal (though perhaps more discretely done) male impulse and are overemphasizing it so you can be mad and not put out for your husband. I'm sure that's good for a MONTH of marital bed deep freeze.

I think you need to examine what kind of sex life you want and who you want it with...because it doesn't sound like you are particularly inclined to have one with your husband.

Don't know the man and you could be perfectly justified in not wanting him. Maybe he likes to eat lots of garlic before he goes to bed. BUT...your needs are incompatible and it sounds like you are the one metering the affection.

Men will NOT NOT NOT bond strongly to a person who denying him sex. You are telling him he isn't worth your vulnerability or time. You have made a contract. He can't screw anyone else (same as you) BUT...you are also a contractual service provider...and you have been neglecting your duties in his eyes.

So fix this, let him go or open up the marriage.


----------



## olwhatsisname

I am old ! beautiful things brighten our lives. if we are not dead we look at everyone. a lady in our church (all of them really)takes special care of her hair and makeup, and it makes me feel good seeing the ladies The men dress well to. a church we went to a while back men and women (many of them) wore flip flops, and tee shirts to the Sunday morning service. humans get great enjoyment seeing well dressed, attractive people, everywhere. what is wrong with you people, is your life so bad you must find fault with the normal beautiful things of life???


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## SomedayDig

Ahhh...good ol' sexual repression.

Let us not look at the wonder that is the human form because it is evil and blah, blah, blah.....

He checked her boobs out cuz they were right there. He didn't motorboat them, didn't cop a feel and from what I've read didn't do anything inappropriate.

I won't get into the sex thing. Others have done so quite well.


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## Kobo

Pro Tip: Life gets a lot better when you stop fighting losing battles.


----------



## JCD

SomedayDig said:


> Ahhh...good ol' sexual repression.
> 
> Let us not look at the wonder that is the human form because it is evil and blah, blah, blah.....
> 
> He checked her boobs out cuz they were right there. He didn't motorboat them, didn't cop a feel and from what I've read didn't do anything inappropriate.
> 
> I won't get into the sex thing. Others have done so quite well.


I know!

"I will keep my hubby dangling on a sexual string but GOD FORBID he evinces ANY interest in anyone else while I torment him with denial."

It's like that old joke: What food cuts the female sex drive by 90%? 

Wedding cake.


----------



## doubletrouble

Ogling is so high school. If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way. So many women these days seem to think stretch pants are jeans; you can see their junk in the grocery store. Gross. 

It's a desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife. As i said before, it disrespects your marriage and your wife when you act like that. 

Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

doubletrouble said:


> Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


Grow up, be a loyal wife and honor your husband. It goes both ways. We all reap what we sew.


----------



## Laila8

WellyVamp said:


> In my experience, men still eye up other women, no matter how much sex, love and attention they're getting at home.
> 
> Mind you, a lack of sex won't help matters!


Yep. All men look, regardless of how well they're being taken care of at home.


----------



## SomedayDig

doubletrouble said:


> Ogling is so high school. If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way. So many women these days seem to think stretch pants are jeans; you can see their junk in the grocery store. Gross.
> 
> It's a desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife. As i said before, it disrespects your marriage and your wife when you act like that.
> 
> Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


A "desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife"?? Most of the chicks I see don't know me or my wife. Why can't they be comfortable in their own skins. Sounds almost like the "raped cuz she was dressed '****ty'" excuse crap.

As for the grow up commentary, I'll give 2 comments of my own:

1. I know this old dude, Arnold. He's a wicked pisser. Been flying airplanes since the 1930's. Has been married for 60...yes SIXTY years. I asked him once how he could stay married to the same woman for so long. He said quite simply - honesty. The guy is in his 90's. He loves to look at pretty girls. Who the f-ck doesn't?

2. "Growing up" has zip to do with it. If someone is so repressed sexually, I would worry more if they DON'T look cuz who the hell knows what's going on in their brain. I don't say that lightly. My brother is _owned_ by his wife. When it's just he and I out hanging, he's always commenting on the girls. When his wife is around, all those girls he would say were hot, suddenly turn all ****ty as he comments about them to his wife...who agrees.

Point is...he's looking and admiring the girls and talking out of the side of his mouth to his wife. That's a dual lifestyle.

THAT...is bad.

Checking a hot chick out. Well, that ain't so bad. Whistling, cat calling and howling...yeah, that's being a chump loser. I simply prefer to think of looking at a beautiful woman just as I listen to Chopin. My wife knows I look and she is okay with it. See...I know where my bread's buttered. I just like to check out the margarine packaging once in a while.


----------



## SomedayDig

Laila619 said:


> Yep. All men look, regardless of how well they're being taken care of at home.


Truth. Cuz being "taken care of at home" doesn't really matter.

I drive an '03 Saturn ION. Best car ever.

I stare longingly at the Cadillac STS.

But I could never afford one, so I just look at it.


----------



## PHTlump

doubletrouble said:


> If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way.


You're saying that, if you spent an hour or two sitting across the table from an attractive woman in a low-cut tube top, you would spend the entire time averting your eyes? Wouldn't you look like an idiot?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with giving a woman what she asks for. A woman in a low-cut tube top is asking people to notice her cleavage. So I do. I consider it a win/win.

If you think that having testosterone in your blood stream is disrespectful to your wife, than we have very different ideas on what is disrespectful. I really see nothing that testosterone does that undermines my marriage or my loyalty to my wife.


----------



## bellawhite

Doubleteouble, now THAT'S what I'm taking about! Props to the very respectful hubby out there! Your wife is very lucky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbelievable

A wife and her husband are going to dinner with her best friend. The "friend" shows up dressed like a hoochie mama. The husband, being a guy, notices the wares she deliberately has on display. Who's accused of showing disrespect? The female "friend" who thinks dinner with a a married couple is the perfect time to show off her hooties or the husband who can't will himself blind or gay?


----------



## TiggyBlue

Not that I agree he's much wrong (a lot people look at attractive people and since it was glances not staring) but I fail to see how this could be turned on her friend.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

doubletrouble said:


> Ogling is so high school. If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way. So many women these days seem to think stretch pants are jeans; you can see their junk in the grocery store. Gross.
> 
> It's a desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife. As i said before, it disrespects your marriage and your wife when you act like that.
> 
> Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


Wow. So a couple of glances get's turned into ogling? I don't see it, nor do I see those glances as dishonoring a wife, any more than a wife making a couple of glances at a good looking guy is dishonoring her husband.

Again, i question whether this is merely a decision to not have sex that is looking for a reason.


----------



## Wiserforit

doubletrouble said:


> Ogling is so high school. If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way. So many women these days seem to think stretch pants are jeans; you can see their junk in the grocery store. Gross.
> 
> It's a desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife. As i said before, it disrespects your marriage and your wife when you act like that.
> 
> Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


Shaming is not an argument. Just emotional manipulation.

My wife usually spots the athlete in stretch pants and tight shirt before I do and gives me the heads up - "one o'clock by the tomato display"

And I usually deliver a pleasant smile which is returned in kind.


----------



## just got it 55

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Been married 35 years I am 57 Love my wife more every day But look hell yes I just love women


----------



## just_about_done

I just have a couple of comments. 

First, someone asked if men are slaves to their biology or something like that. In fact yes. Just like women are slaves to theirs. When (if) you get hormonal and start crying for no reason, can you just shut that off? Not really that different.

Second, based on your comments, I don't think the quantity of sex is the big issue. I think it's the fact that he has to beg for it and you "give in." If you were having it every day, but still under these conditions, it would be unsatisfying. 

Try making him feel wanted and not just begrudgingly pacified.


----------



## JCD

bellawhite said:


> Doubleteouble, now THAT'S what I'm taking about! Props to the very respectful hubby out there! Your wife is very lucky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was wondering if you were still here. All the men who aren't self loathing and most of the women are saying the same thing...and you are resisting this truth.

It has been established BY SCIENCE that men are visual creatures and that they 'look'. You do not like this reality. That is your prerogative. But that is like saying you don't like chickens because they lay eggs. The problem is NOT the chickens.

Now you MAY train him to look so subtly that you no longer notice the looks.

In which case you will have to find something else to be mad about to deny him sex over.

You are really doubling down on this and refuse to acknowledge that you might be bringing any problems or incorrect attitudes to this relationship.

Good luck.

As Katheine Hepburn said in 'The African Queen' 'One's nature is what one should rise above.' But high standards are just that, high. Getting all twisted out of shape because of a minor MINOR error in front of Little Miss Cleavage says a lot about you.

Does your husband show the same lack of forgiveness and coldness for when you disappoint HIM in life? Just asking.


----------



## JCD

doubletrouble said:


> Ogling is so high school. If a woman hangs it out there for all to see, I look the other way. So many women these days seem to think stretch pants are jeans; you can see their junk in the grocery store. Gross.
> 
> It's a desperate cry for attention AWAY from your wife. As i said before, it disrespects your marriage and your wife when you act like that.
> 
> Grow up, be a loyal husband and honor your wife. And that goes for whether she's with you or not. It's not healthy to live a dual life.


I am not sure if you realize this, but the OP is a WOMAN complaining about her husband. Or were you speaking to the rest of us 'Neanderthals'?

In any case science and public opinion is against you. And no one, not one man woman or child defended 'ogling'. Nor did the wife accuse him of this. She's bent out of shape that the man has eyes and his eyes wandered to the same sexual markers that her friend OPENLY revealed.

Evolutionary hint: people who like sex are the winners in the long run.

Religious hint: God gave us this sexual nature, even as he gave us rules about controlling said nature. He looked at a boob. He wasn't jacking off to her friend's picture in the shower.

So science says she should try to keep hubby satisfied so he doesn't stray. Oddly enough, religion says the same thing.

She's trying to get off on the cheap though.


----------



## Kobo

JCD has dropped some knowledge on this subject. Hard to really get into a serious discussion on this subject with a woman who is blatantly against her husband's sexual fulfillment within the marriage. I mean we're really complaining about 3-4 looks over 2 hr dinner date with boobs out the entire time. The lady is looking for reasons to justify not having sex with her sex crazed husband and to continue on her resentment train to divorce.


----------



## bellawhite

No need to be mean people! I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it! But i do appreciate you guys showing me the importance of sex in marriage and especially for a man, i never really saw it that way! I just saw men as sex crazed but not that sex was emptionally important to them! Its good to be able to see things differently!!!! And the answer to JCD is yes my husband is pretty unforgiving, he keeps things bottled in, and will remind me of them 2 years later!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias

bellawhite said:


> No need to be mean people! I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it! But i do appreciate you guys showing me the importance of sex in marriage and especially for a man, i never really saw it that way! I just saw men as sex crazed but not that sex was emptionally important to them! Its good to be able to see things differently!!!! And the answer to JCD is yes my husband is pretty unforgiving, he keeps things bottled in, and will remind me of them 2 years later!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sex can be just as important for the ladies.

The bottling up and flinging in your face 2 years later would kill my drive big time.


----------



## Kobo

ScarletBegonias said:


> Sex can be just as important for the ladies.
> 
> The bottling up and flinging in your face 2 years later would kill my drive big time.


Probably bottled up so he doesn't lose his coochie rations.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Kobo said:


> Probably bottled up so he doesn't lose his coochie rations.


We don't know that for certain.
Some people are unable to let things go and feel the need to constantly bring it up over and over.
Even those with a healthy sex life do this sort of thing to their partner.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bellawhite said:


> No need to be mean people! I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it! _Posted via Mobile Device_


I certainly never posted that it was the reason for the lack of sex. What I did post was that you did not want sex, and perhaps your were looking for reasons (like this) to justify what you wanted to do.

So consider why you really don't want to have sex with him.


----------



## Princess Puffin'stuff

jaquen said:


> If you don't want a husband that checks out other women's boobs...
> 
> *Marry a woman.*
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly it's horrible to your husband if he threw it in your face. What we think about that volume of sex doesn't matter much when your husband isn't happy.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, what? Your husband's ideal is about 12-14 times a month, you have sex with him less than half that amount, and you make him beg for the little bit of sex you begrudgingly do give him, and all because you believe sex shouldn't be the "number 1" part of a marriage?
> 
> Are you _trying_ to become a regular poster on the "coping with infidelity" and/or "going through divorce or separation" sections of this board?


I'm a lesbian and I am always checking out other women. My wife doesn't mind so much because I'm discreet and I don't throw it her face.


----------



## PHTlump

bellawhite said:


> No need to be mean people!


Most folks here aren't really trying to be mean. They're trying to be honest and blunt. We call it the virtual 2x4 between the eyes. Your marriage will be better off if you realize that you are wrong and change your behavior. And it's hard to be nice when you're telling someone that she's wrong and needs to change her behavior.

Some here may be intentionally mean. But those are usually people trapped in a sexless marriage with a spouse who thinks like you do. They're hurt and projecting that pain toward you. When your wife refuses to meet your needs because she thinks you're either lying about sex being a need, or because she just can't work up the desire necessary to have sex with you, it's depressing. Actually, it's beyond depressing. It's soul-crushing.



> I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it!


You need to get past it. We use another metaphor of the red pill/blue pill from The Matrix. The blue pill represents the false reality that most people believe in. The red pill represents the world as it actually is.

The red pill reality is that men notice attractive women. That's the way God, or evolution, designed us. The primitive portion of our brain that is responsible for keeping the species alive doesn't really care whether the boobs in our field of vision belong to you, or your friend, or your sister, or a stranger. We're going to notice. So, now you know the truth. And you can't go back. You can't go back to thinking that men, after taking their vows, can just shut down that section of hindbrain that wants human DNA to advance to the next generation. So realize that you need to adjust your expectations of what is, and is not possible, in the real world. You may as well deny your husband sex because the sun rises in the East.

I recommend you buy your husband a copy of the Married Man Sex Life Primer. It's the red pill for men.
The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 | MMSL Primer | By Athol Kay | Married Man Sex Life


----------



## Kobo

ScarletBegonias said:


> We don't know that for certain.
> Some people are unable to let things go and feel the need to constantly bring it up over and over.
> Even those with a healthy sex life do this sort of thing to their partner.


Of course we don't know much for certain. We do know that her husband places a high value on sexual fulfillment. We know that she sees/saw him as sex crazed. We know that her husband looking 3-4 times at boobs overly exposed in his face for 2 hours causes her to have mental movies which won't allow her to enjoy sex with him. Can't imagine what happens when he looks up right in time for 17 year old cross country runner to cross his sightline. I think we can make a leap that this man will probably do/not do what ever it takes to keep that slow drip of sex going. He holds it in until his pride can't take any more, reaches back for all the hurt he's been holding in, and probably says some awful things as he lashes out. I don't think that's too much of a jump from what we've seen written.


----------



## SomedayDig

Hey! There are a whole bunch of ladies oogling celeb men in the Ladies Lounge!! How is it they can't honor their husbands and not be so pathetic and childish?!


----------



## TCSRedhead

Checking out boobs, legs, figures is pretty normal. If it's chin dropping, drool running down the chin or otherwise making people uncomfortable, no, that's not normal.

Now that that issue has been discussed to death, it sounds like the two of you have another bigger issue to work on - the frequency of sex in your marriage.


----------



## SomedayDig

TCSRedhead said:


> Checking out boobs, legs, figures is pretty normal. If it's chin dropping, drool running down the chin or otherwise making people uncomfortable, no, that's not normal.
> 
> Now that that issue has been discussed to death, it sounds like the two of you have another bigger issue to work on - the frequency of sex in your marriage.


Like take off your pants and jacket would be bad in that situation. Didn't happen though.

Yeah...lots more issues than a booby show.


----------



## Suspecting

Hey, but how long until he's fondling them instead of just ogling? She is someone he knows.


----------



## yellowstar

If I *caught* my husband doing that I would be annoyed...

BUT I also wouldn't be looking for it. Cognitively I know this is what men do, they're hardwired to do it etc BUT emotionally I'd rather not focus on it because it would annoy me. If he was being blatant and oogling, that's a different story. But a few glances, I don't want to even look at him to SEE if that's what he's doing because it's setting myself up to be angry, see what I mean here?

But we have a healthy/active sex life. I think if you work on that first with your husband, the rest of the problems/issues will either die down, not seem as big or matter much (a generalization here).

As men on this board have said before, to make them happy takes a full belly + empty testicles


----------



## yellowstar

Suspecting said:


> Hey, but how long until he's fondling them instead of just ogling? She is someone he knows.


My understanding is that he glanced?

Either way, my husband is either REALLY good at hiding it or does whatever he has to do so he does NOT do that in front of me. You could tell him this if it makes you feel better and respected! But don't think he'll never do it, it would be nice (I'd love it!) but I don't think its realistic.


----------



## SomedayDig

Jeeeze people....he wasn't OOGLING them. He glanced at them a couple times over a few hours. He didn't drool or make a big deal out of it.

The big deal is all the other pathology going on in this marriage, not boobs being put out there that this guy happened to glance at.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Oh for crying out loud, he looked at a pair of boobies. No one said he was ogling them or ready to grope them.

I know my husband looks at boobs - heck, I've even pointed some out to him. I know I've checked out a particularly attractive guy. It's human nature to notice other humans.

However, the argument that they had afterwards is really telling. There seems to be a disconnect in the satisfaction levels of sexual frequency. What is being done to address that?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

TCSRedhead said:


> Oh for crying out loud, he looked at a pair of boobies.


:rofl: I don't know why the word boobies makes me crack up but it does.every time.I'm a child. lol


----------



## Cosmos

TCSRedhead said:


> Checking out boobs, legs, figures is pretty normal. If it's chin dropping, drool running down the chin or otherwise making people uncomfortable, no, that's not normal.
> 
> Now that that issue has been discussed to death, it sounds like the two of you have another bigger issue to work on - the frequency of sex in your marriage.


:iagree:

The boobies were on show, at the dinner table, which would make it hard to _not _glance at them every time she spoke. Providing he wasn't sitting there, fixated, with a silly grin on his face, I think his behaviour sounds pretty normal.

Despite the title of this thread, the lack of physical intimacy is the real problem here, IMO.


----------



## JCD

bellawhite said:


> No need to be mean people! I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it! But i do appreciate you guys showing me the importance of sex in marriage and especially for a man, i never really saw it that way! I just saw men as sex crazed but not that sex was emptionally important to them! Its good to be able to see things differently!!!! And the answer to JCD is yes my husband is pretty unforgiving, he keeps things bottled in, and will remind me of them 2 years later!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First off, I came to this thread when it was 5 pages deep (word used purposefully). And after five pages, you continued to dismiss every single person who said that this is normal, but COULD be done rudely. So essentially, that implication is that every single man and many of the women on this board were moral degenerates...ast least according to your lights.

So...with that level of denial, I am not about to be gentle. You don't need to LIKE whatever...but rage against gravity while you are at it.

I would suggest you go to the Sex in Marriage section and read some of the soul crushing (nice adjective whomever) narratives and wails of despair. Some of these men (and women!) have been essentially shut out and sidelined by their spouse for YEARS...and their spouse doesn't care.

You are heading in that direction. I would just as soon have you let your husband go than inflict that on him.

But...you say he is also unforgiving and cold, harboring resentments. Okay. It seems like BOTH of you have a LOT of work to do on your marriage...and if you can't come to a compromise...well...we know where that leads. Lets just say you will BOTH lose a lot more than you'd have to give up by having to give him a few unsolicited hummers. What you are saying is that losing your house, your reputation your fiscal security and tripling your kids chances of problems isn't worth an extra hour or two of your time in the bedroom a week.

Think very hard on that. Talk to your divorced friends. I am not excusing his issues. But you can't change HIM. You can change YOU.

We had one success story in Sex in Marriage. Look up "Found my Libido after 10 years." Essentially, this is YOUR story. Her husband was distant, cold, and a pain in the ass while behaving properly as a husband. She 'suddenly discovered' (WHAT THE FVCK! Don't EITHER of you pay ANY attention to CULTURE? CULTURE TELLS you that men want and NEED sex. Were you born yest...calm...calm...) that her husband saw sex as an emotional bonding need. And almost on a dime, he turned around. He just suddenly changed and she's SHOCKED...you know...after TEN YEARS of her husband telling her EXACTLY that! I hope you are smarter than she is.



ScarletBegonias said:


> Sex can be just as important for the ladies.
> 
> The bottling up and flinging in your face 2 years later would kill my drive big time.



Men denied sex regularly are not prone to niceties to someone who blatantly shows they don't care about them. That is how a man would see her actions. SHE may not see it that way...but she's wrong.



Kobo said:


> Probably bottled up so he doesn't lose his coochie rations.


Quite likely.




Suspecting said:


> Hey, but how long until he's fondling them instead of just ogling? She is someone he knows.


I guess that very much depends on Bellawhite. From the sounds of HIM, he is pretty frigging resentful already and he is not many steps from rationalizing that sort of behavior.


----------



## Suspecting

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The boobies were on show, at the dinner table, which would make it hard to _not _glance at them every time she spoke.


So you do this often? 

I guess you have a point. Instead of one girl talking to you, you have three girls talking to you and no idea which one to look at.


----------



## Cosmos

Suspecting said:


> So you do this often?
> 
> I guess you have a point. Instead of one girl talking to you, you have three girls talking to you and no idea which one to look at.


Yes, but probably for different reasons ("I wonder what sort of bra she's wearing?" etc). I'm a woman


----------



## bellawhite

Ok ok, after 9 pages of this, I DO agree it is normal behavior but can i atleast say i WISH it wasnt this way (it hurts my feelings, i mean, im 4.11 weigh about 105 pds after 2 kids im small with decent boobs and a booty, long blonde hair, and blue eyes) so in my dumb little head its like HEY buddy, look at my boobs!!!!! Im here too! And i DO agree the frequency problem needs to be addressed bc its so important to him, but my close girlfriends husbands dont even get 2 3 a month and i thought he is my husband getting 6 and complaining! I do thank everyone for opening up my eyes! And tall average guy, i didnt mean ur comment wasnt nice, urs was fine! But some ppl are just out to attack saying ' u dont belong together ' and stuff like that! Spread love ppl not pain!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## yellowstar

bellawhite said:


> Ok ok, after 9 pages of this, I DO agree it is normal behavior but can i atleast say i WISH it wasnt this way (it hurts my feelings, i mean, im 4.11 weigh about 105 pds after 2 kids im small with decent boobs and a booty, long blonde hair, and blue eyes) so in my dumb little head its like HEY buddy, look at my boobs!!!!! Im here too! And i DO agree the frequency problem needs to be addressed bc its so important to him, but my close girlfriends husbands dont even get 2 3 a month and i thought he is my husband getting 6 and complaining! I do thank everyone for opening up my eyes! And tall average guy, i didnt mean ur comment wasnt nice, urs was fine! But some ppl are just out to attack saying ' u dont belong together ' and stuff like that! Spread love ppl not pain!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know what you mean, it hurts to feel like you're not 'good enough' or something when you catch him looking...I get that.

Don't compare yourself to what your girlfriends' husbands are getting, no one really knows the dynamics of others' marriages and sex lives. Focus on improving the physical relationship between you and your husband and forget what others are doing (or supposedly doing).


----------



## TCSRedhead

Hi Bella - there isn't going to be a specific right number for everyone. I would really recommend picking up the Five Love Languages and having you both take the quiz and see where you rank.

For me, Physical Touch is a representation of love. If he isn't touching me and making love to me frequently enough, it feels like he doesn't love me. For him, Quality Time is his representation. So, if I'm not spending enough time focusing just on him, he doesn't feel loved. It's all our own perceptions.

Oh, and on the looking thing - you could be a supermodel but your husband is still gonna notice a nice pair of boobies. It's just natural. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you or think you're beautiful.

After all, if a great looking guy with a good body was shirtless mowing your neighbor's lawn, you'd notice, right?


----------



## Entropy3000

bellawhite said:


> No need to be mean people! I never said THIS was the reason we dont have sex often, but this surely adds to it! But i do appreciate you guys showing me the importance of sex in marriage and especially for a man, i never really saw it that way! I just saw men as sex crazed but not that sex was emptionally important to them! Its good to be able to see things differently!!!! And the answer to JCD is yes my husband is pretty unforgiving, he keeps things bottled in, and will remind me of them 2 years later!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some phrase it this way.

Men connect emotionaly via sex.

Women connect emotionally to have sex.

Generalization? Perhaps. But sex to most of us is not about just getting off. Who needs marriage for that? Marriage is a sexual / emotional relationship.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"Men connect emotionaly via sex.

Women connect emotionally to have sex."



And men love boobs because....nom nom nom....boobs.


----------



## Laila8

bellawhite said:


> Ok ok, after 9 pages of this, I DO agree it is normal behavior but can i atleast say i WISH it wasnt this way (it hurts my feelings, i mean, im 4.11 weigh about 105 pds after 2 kids im small with decent boobs and a booty, long blonde hair, and blue eyes) so in my dumb little head its like HEY buddy, look at my boobs!!!!! Im here too! And i DO agree the frequency problem needs to be addressed bc its so important to him, but my close girlfriends husbands dont even get 2 3 a month and i thought he is my husband getting 6 and complaining! I do thank everyone for opening up my eyes! And tall average guy, i didnt mean ur comment wasnt nice, urs was fine! But some ppl are just out to attack saying ' u dont belong together ' and stuff like that! Spread love ppl not pain!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sure he *does* look at your boobs, too. But at the same time, it's probably pretty frustrating for him if he doesn't get to have sex with you very often.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'm an ass man myself. And if my wife's friend has dinner with us wearing a thong, I'm going to stare.


----------



## just_about_done

OP, if you noticed him looking at your boobs you'd get all offended and start ranting about him "always" wanting sex. 

Seems to be my experience anyway.


----------



## PHTlump

bellawhite said:


> Ok ok, after 9 pages of this, I DO agree it is normal behavior but can i atleast say i WISH it wasnt this way ...


Sure. The red pill is usually not met with relief. You've spent many years thinking that men are boorish creatures for caring about sex. The thought that men SHOULD care about sex will seem unnatural for a good while. But you need to recognize, at least intellectually to start, that men in the real world think differently than you always thought, and wished, that they did.



> ... (it hurts my feelings, i mean, im 4.11 weigh about 105 pds after 2 kids im small with decent boobs and a booty, long blonde hair, and blue eyes) so in my dumb little head its like HEY buddy, look at my boobs!!!!! Im here too!


If you mean that your husband doesn't make you feel desired, then that is his failure that you should take up with him. If you mean that you want your husband to make you feel like the ONLY woman that he finds desirable, then you're being unreasonable.



> And i DO agree the frequency problem needs to be addressed bc its so important to him, but my close girlfriends husbands dont even get 2 3 a month and i thought he is my husband getting 6 and complaining!


That's a dangerous game. First, women tend to under report sex. Even married women tend to have some unrealistic fear of being seen as slvtty for having sex with their husbands. Conversely, men tend to over report sex.

So, your girlfriends who are telling you that they have sex twice a month may actually be having sex much more often. Also, the Kinsey Institute reports that married couples in their late twenties have sex more often than you're thinking. 43% report having sex at least twice a week.

And, marriage should be individualized. Perhaps your girlfriends really are having sex twice a month. Maybe their husbands are lower drive than your husband. Maybe their husbands are miserable and they're on the verge of divorcing over the issue of sexual frequency. Maybe their husbands are supplementing their sex life with affairs. You can't really know.

Good luck.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"First, women tend to under report sex."


Source?

If you mean, what women might report on a survey, ok. But do you have a source that states that women under report to their own friends?


----------



## Entropy3000

So is the GF who is exposing herself only having sex 2 or 3 times a month? Seems like she is showing off for some reason. Looking for attention she is.


----------



## Topical storm

TiggyBlue said:


> Not that I agree he's much wrong (a lot people look at attractive people and since it was glances not staring) but I fail to see how this could be turned on her friend.


Well no woman should bring their husbands around "friends" that show off their breasts. I'm not aware of the style of the shirt the friend was wearing but if you want attention you will get attention. The husband wasn't even oogling. If anything the wife should drop the friend because she is inviting attention to herself by showcasing her goods to all mankind. A man is going to look. If a woman decides to wear revealing clothes or let the world know she has some big breast, then she will get exactly what she deserves.

Just the other day I saw two girls were walking by, and noticed that one of them was showcasing her backside with super tight spandex with a shirt that showed off her belly button. So of course I looked. Her friend tries to put me on full blast by yelling "Damn you keep looking at that ass". She said it loud so other people could hear it. Me being me, reversed the entire situation and yelled just as loud " You damn right I'm looking, look what she is wearing. If you come out of the house with your ass out showing it to the world. I'm going to look." Basically it shut them up to where the friend who had on the outfit looked kind of embarrased and the friend who tried to put me on front street looked stupid with a deer in a headlights type of look.

I be damned if someone is dressed provocative and then tells me what I should do with my eyes. Nonsense.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"Basically it shut them up to where the friend who had on the outfit looked kind of embarrased and the friend who tried to put me on front street looked stupid with a deer in a headlights type of look."

Right...because they figured you might be a rapist. Duh.

Nice try, thinking you could shame these women. Instead, you just made yourself look like a potential predator.


----------



## TiggyBlue

That has nothing to do with what I was saying, if you have a friend who dresses and low cut tops/dresses ect then it can't be turned on her when a husband glances (not that I'm saying the OP was it sounded like another poster was).


----------



## TiggyBlue

Faithful Wife said:


> "Basically it shut them up to where the friend who had on the outfit looked kind of embarrased and the friend who tried to put me on front street looked stupid with a deer in a headlights type of look."
> 
> Right...because they figured you might be a rapist. Duh.
> 
> Nice try, thinking you could shame these women. Instead, you just made yourself look like a potential predator.


Does sound like the woman he was staring at copped the embarrassment for what her friend did, don't see why she should have been shamed for her friend having a big mouth.


----------



## PHTlump

Faithful Wife said:


> "First, women tend to under report sex."
> 
> 
> Source?
> 
> If you mean, what women might report on a survey, ok. But do you have a source that states that women under report to their own friends?


You think women are more likely to under report sex on an anonymous survey than they are to their friends?


----------



## TiggyBlue

PHTlump said:


> You think women are more likely to under report sex on an anonymous survey than they are to their friends?


Actually I kind of do.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"You think women are more likely to under report sex on an anonymous survey than they are to their friends?"

Yes...because on the survey, they want to look "right", but to their friends, they usually want advice, to vent, or to share.


----------



## Topical storm

Faithful Wife said:


> "Basically it shut them up to where the friend who had on the outfit looked kind of embarrased and the friend who tried to put me on front street looked stupid with a deer in a headlights type of look."
> 
> Right...because they figured you might be a rapist. Duh.
> 
> Nice try, thinking you could shame these women. Instead, you just made yourself look like a potential predator.


This has got to be one of the most asinine statements that I've heard. Obviously you don't know the full context and just spout speculation because you didn't like the outcome, by resorting to words like "potential Predator. That's funny to me.

No they didn't figure me to be a rapist. I wasn't even oogling or trying to be overtly obvious. The friend said it because she was jealous because I wasn't giving her attention. Thats usually what happens in these situations. Ugly friend protector gets bold because her friend looks good.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Faithful Wife said:


> "You think women are more likely to under report sex on an anonymous survey than they are to their friends?"
> 
> Yes...because on the survey, they want to look "right", but to their friends, they usually want advice, to vent, or to share.


:iagree:
A few drinks and a bit of trash talk takes a lot of inhibitions away.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"The friend said it because she was jealous because I wasn't giving her attention. Thats usually what happens in these situations. Ugly friend protector gets bold because her friend looks good."

Oh yeah. I'm sure that was it.

Except...if you were a good looking guy, she wouldn't have yelled at you to stop looking would she have? So why would she be flattered about that? Women only yell back "stop lookin' uggo" when they are NOT flattered. Is that news to you?


----------



## PHTlump

Women's Sexual Behaviors May Be Closer To Men's Than Previously Thought
This link quantifies women underreporting sex on surveys.

Women who thought their answers might be read reported an average of 2.6 sexual partners. But those who thought they were monitored by a lie detector reported an average of 4.4 sexual partners. Women who believed their answers were anonymous reported an average of 3.4 sexual partners.

I doubt there is any source for comparing women's reporting to their friends versus reporting to clinical authorities. I can't quickly imagine how to even conduct such a study.

However, given that women are obviously conscious of societal pressures when reporting answers anonymously, it seems reasonable to believe that they would still be conscious of those pressures when reporting to their friends. Most of us want our friends to see us in a positive light. I certainly don't rush to my friends and report my failings over a few drinks.


----------



## PHTlump

TiggyBlue said:


> That has nothing to do with what I was saying, if you have a friend who dresses and low cut tops/dresses ect then it can't be turned on her when a husband glances (not that I'm saying the OP was it sounded like another poster was).


You're saying that a woman who dresses in a low-cut tube top is NOT responsible for men looking at her cleavage?


----------



## TiggyBlue

PHTlump said:


> You're saying that a woman who dresses in a low-cut tube top is NOT responsible for men looking at her cleavage?


Is she responsible for his eyes... no


----------



## PHTlump

Faithful Wife said:


> Nice try, thinking you could shame these women. Instead, you just made yourself look like a potential predator.


So, a man who notices a woman who is dressed provocatively, and then refuses to allow that woman to loudly berate him for noticing her dress, is a potential predator? Seriously?


----------



## TiggyBlue

PHTlump said:


> So, a man who notices a woman who is dressed provocatively, and then refuses to allow that woman to loudly berate him for noticing her dress, is a potential predator? Seriously?


She didn't though, her friend did.


----------



## PHTlump

TiggyBlue said:


> Is she responsible for his eyes... no


So, if I tell you NOT to think about elephants, and then you immediately think about elephants, that's just a coincidence? Your thoughts had nothing to do with my instructions?

How about if I strip naked, light myself on fire, and then run through the middle of a crowd shouting, "Nobody look at me!" Would I have no responsibility for anyone glancing my way?

Have you ever heard of the advertising, or public relations industries? Companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year influencing the thoughts, attitudes, and actions of hundreds of millions of people across the world. None of us operate in little vacuums that can't be influenced by those around us.


----------



## PHTlump

TiggyBlue said:


> She didn't though, her friend did.


Is that distinction relevant? Are you saying that friends of women who are dressed provocatively should be allowed to loudly berate men who notice their friend's style of dress?

As a man, I wish some thoughtful woman would publish a list of all the abuse we are required to accept without complaint. I would hate to come across as insensitive the next time some slvt's friend admonishes me for noticing her friend's nipples.


----------



## TiggyBlue

PHTlump said:


> So, if I tell you NOT to think about elephants, and then you immediately think about elephants, that's just a coincidence? Your thoughts had nothing to do with my instructions?
> 
> How about if I strip naked, light myself on fire, and then run through the middle of a crowd shouting, "Nobody look at me!" Would I have no responsibility for anyone glancing my way?
> 
> Have you ever heard of the advertising, or public relations industries? Companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year influencing the thoughts, attitudes, and actibutions of hundreds of millions of people across the world. None of us operate in little vacuums that can't be influenced by those around us.



Did her low cut top cause him to have some natural glances yes (I never denied that), that doesn't make her responsible for his glances imo. As I said before if you have a friend who wears more revealing clothes and you have dinner with her then it can't be blamed on her when your partner glances (as I said before it seemed like another poster was trying to put it on her friend not the OP).


----------



## Faithful Wife

Wow.....I mean really....wow. The fact that you would notice but then call HER a sl*t because YOU noticed? 

Why can't you notice, and just notice? Why does SHE then become a sl*t?

There are men who can look without then having to call who they are looking at a sl*t.

Sheesh.


----------



## PHTlump

TiggyBlue said:


> Did her low cut top cause him to have some natural glances yes (I never denied that), that doesn't make her responsible for his glances imo. As I said before if you have a friend who wears more revealing clothes and you have dinner with her then it can't be blamed on her when your partner glances (as I said before it seemed like another poster was trying to put it on her friend not the OP).


Are you saying that the revealing top caused the glances, but the wife's friend, who chose to wear the top, isn't responsible for the glances? Or are you saying that the wife isn't responsible.

I certainly agree that the wife isn't responsible for her friend's wardrobe, or her husband's natural reaction to it.


----------



## TiggyBlue

[/QUOTE]


PHTlump said:


> Is that distinction relevant? Are you saying that friends of women who are dressed provocatively should be allowed to loudly berate men who notice their friend's style of dress?


No i'm saying if the friend berated him address the friend's mouth,
all it seemed was that the one who was being glanced at was shamed when she in fact didn't do anything to him. Her friend attempted to berate him and in turn he berated her and not the friend. 
.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Faithful Wife

I think you two are talking about two different things. Tiggy is talking about what Tropical Storm said, and PHT is talking about the OP's story.


----------



## Suspecting

This thread went sooo off topic.


----------



## TiggyBlue

PHTlump said:


> Are you saying that the revealing top caused the glances, but the wife's friend, who chose to wear the top, isn't responsible for the glances? Or are you saying that the wife isn't responsible.
> 
> I certainly agree that the wife isn't responsible for her friend's wardrobe, or her husband's natural reaction to it.


Her friend isn't responsible for what her husbands eye's naturally did (I don't see why others eyes/reactions should dictate her wardrobe) then and her husband wasn't responsible for having natural glances, why does someone need to be blamed?


----------



## PHTlump

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow.....I mean really....wow. The fact that you would notice but then call HER a sl*t because YOU noticed?
> 
> Why can't you notice, and just notice? Why does SHE then become a sl*t?
> 
> There are men who can look without then having to call who they are looking at a sl*t.
> 
> Sheesh.


The other poster (not me) didn't call the women out until after they had tried to embarrass him for noticing the very provocative dress of one of them.

As for my using the term slvt, I wasn't necessarily referring to the girls in the other poster's scenario. However, I think it's an appropriate term for a woman who is dressed provocatively enough. I mean, most prostitutes standing on street corners aren't dressed in high-necked smocks and pearls.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Faithful Wife said:


> I think you two are talking about two different things. Tiggy is talking about what Tropical Storm said, and PHT is talking about the OP's story.


:rofl: I think your right.


----------



## Cosmos

Actually, IME, low cut top or not - boobies will get attention. I can wear a polo neck sweater (not tight fitting) and my 38DDs still get attention.


----------



## RandomDude

Just because something grabs your attention doesn't mean one wants to hump it! =/


----------



## TCSRedhead

RandomDude said:


> Just because something grabs your attention doesn't mean one wants to hump it! =/


Hubby looks - it's like a reflex. Even he says - sometimes he wishes he could give the 'look' back after seeing some bad boobs!


----------



## TiggyBlue

Cosmos said:


> Actually, IME, low cut top or not - boobies will get attention. I can wear a polo neck sweater (not tight fitting) and my 38DDs still get attention.


Exactly, having DD's in a school uniform they still got alot of attention (very unwanted at the time).


----------



## bellawhite

I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.

So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TCSRedhead

bellawhite said:


> I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
> 
> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bella - it's not that it's sexless. It's that your husband is saying that he is feeling something (frequency/intimacy) is missing.

It's critical that you both work on finding out what each other need/want in a relationship to feel loved and work on that.

If it's working for you both, that's all that matters not what someone else's chart or 'normal' says.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Bella, it's not so much the frequency but the rejection and your attitude about it when you do have sex....based on your own description. Your words just made it sound like you are a reluctant partner and you reject your husband often. Obviously if he said what he did, then he thinks that the two of you have a problem. I get that it makes you feel better about yourself to put it on him and make it his problem for wanting too much....but that doesn't really solve the issue now does it? Bottom line is that you have an unsatisfied husband. Now, what are you going to do about it?

Edit: D'oh, I was typing at the same time my lovely red headed friend was posting. Anyway, I think that the two of us are making the same point, just with different words.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yes Bella, what Red said.

It doesn't matter what anyone but YOUR HUSBAND thinks of the amount of sex you have.


----------



## bellawhite

True. I have read the 5 love languages and we did take the quiz, his is physic touch. And mine is quality time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TCSRedhead

So you're the opposite of hubby and me. I can tell you that physical rejection or lack of physical intimacy for someone who's love language is Physical Touch is the equivalent for him of you not getting any of his attention one on one.

What kind of things are you each doing for each other to meet those needs? Is he spending one one one time with you, not talking about work, kids and such but really about the two of you or current events and such?

Try committing to touching him at every opportunity. Not always sexual but touch his back as you walk by, rub his shoulders, hug him goodbye, hello. If the only real touch he's getting is sex, then he may really feel neglected.


----------



## Kobo

bellawhite said:


> I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
> 
> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good ole justification
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bellawhite

Working and redhead, thank you both for the helpful advice! I really so appreciate it! And unfortunately we don't get much alone time but now that were moving near my mom it should be a lot easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## KanDo

bellawhite said:


> I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
> 
> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry Bella, but depending on your age you are *well below average.* The Kinsey institute has been study human sexual activity for 60+ years. Given your posts, I am thinking you are in your 20's to thirties. the AVERAGE is 112 times per year. 60 year old married couple have frequencies that are higher than yours!

But that bottom line isn't the absolute number, it's your partner's needs and your rejection of him that will destroy your marriage.

Good luck


----------



## RandomDude

?!?! Once or twice a week isn't enough?


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> "Basically it shut them up to where the friend who had on the outfit looked kind of embarrased and the friend who tried to put me on front street looked stupid with a deer in a headlights type of look."
> 
> Right...because they figured you might be a rapist. Duh.
> 
> Nice try, thinking you could shame these women. Instead, you just made yourself look like a potential predator.


Because every man who walks down the street and notices a woman who dresses provocatively is a potential rapist?

Do you have sons? Do you want THEM treated like this?

Women have been trying to criminalize male behavior for decades now (see White, Bella) and they wonder where male resentment comes from.

You do NOT get to dress like that and ALSO get the right to ***** about getting looked at. Don't want to be looked at? Wear a burqa.


----------



## Wiserforit

bellawhite said:


> I just saw men as sex crazed but not that sex was emptionally important to them! Its good to be able to see things differently!!!!


This is an extremely odd comment coming from someone who says they have read the 5 love languages and is presumably not raised in a Victorian Era convent. 

I'm getting a feeling from this thread that you tend to throw down justifications of convenience. That whatever is going on isn't necessarily related to whatever is being said. 

The tendency to use shaming and guilt-tripping is really caustic to a marriage. Your husband can do the same thing about whatever your needs are and police your behavior for whatever he is insecure about. When we do these things it is to manipulate them instead of having honest and open communication. 

That's how I read the interaction you had with your husband. You "caught" him (translation: your insecurity police harassed him for something normal) and he responded with denial, also not good, and after more interrogation a defensive "you aren't putting out", which led to a counter-defensive "what a hurtful thing to say".

Despite my wife allowing me hall passes if I want them and having fantasies about me doing other girls, she has lightning bolts of insecurity that strike. But she tells me when they happen. It allows me to go into rescue mode and re-assure her. 

Look how nine pages into the thread you were finally saying what you were really thinking. If the title of the thread matched what was going on in your mind it would be about your insecurity, not your husband's "bad behavior". 

Instead of acting like a cop and "confronting" your husband, consider what might have happened if you had softly expressed your insecurity to him. You can get your husband re-assuring you and showing kindness and understanding instead of denial, counter-attack, and tit-for-tat warfare. 

You don't need to be told that what your friends are doing has no bearing whatsoever on your husband's sexual needs. You aren't stupid. But you are accustomed to throwing out arguments of convenience instead of what is actually going on in your head.


----------



## JCD

bellawhite said:


> I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
> 
> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes...you are 100% right and his needs are perverse, outrageous and should not be considered at all. Where does he get off on actually wanting SEX with his WIFE? How DARE he!

Oh...wait...weren't you the one who was asking that he pay attention to YOUR boobs? Why do I get the feeling that if he had, you'd not have responded well at all? Probably he'd get an eyeroll and a dressing down at home for 'leering at you' all night.

So...stay the course! Keep doing what you are doing. And in three or four years, when you catch him with ANOTHER perverted person, who doesn't think your husband is too shabby and that sex is normal, or you get divorce papers, well...that's just a coincidence. Shows his low nature and has NOTHING to do with you.


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> Her friend isn't responsible for what her husbands eye's naturally did (I don't see why others eyes/reactions should dictate her wardrobe) then and her husband wasn't responsible for having natural glances, why does someone need to be blamed?


Really? One does not dress appropriately for the event? Its ok to just let it all out there and not be responsible for how you dress? Amazing. 

Well let me spin it this way then. Then I would say it is the OPs responsibility to not hang around with friends that dress this way. Since we cannot see how the friend was dressed we wil never agree on this. But the OPs gripe is probably with her friend and not her husband UNLESS her husband was disrespectful about it. Then it was on both of them.

We are all accountable for what we do, what we say, what we wear and so on. We own it.

So is there no line to cross? Is there nothing you would consider over the edge? Is anything ok? I mean you are over her home with your hubby and she comes out topless? Well yes my comment os absurd. However since what we wear has so much shade of gray to it, I am wondering if yoiu have any boundary at all with it. If she was topless the OPs hubby would be expected to avert his eyes then. I say if she is showing it, it is ok to look. I do not think it is ok for a husband to make a big deal about looking. But we are not talking about a stranger walking by.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Actually, IME, low cut top or not - boobies will get attention. I can wear a polo neck sweater (not tight fitting) and my 38DDs still get attention.


Yes and no. There is a huge difference between showing skin and being covered up. Even more if they are bouncing freely. HUGE difference in attention.

Just like a well built man may get attention but gets more when he unbottons his shirt. 

A woman woman with a nice behind is awesome. However if her cheeks are peeking out from the botton of her skirt, that is much more sexual. Skin makes a difference.

And I will assert that I am a qualified expert in this as I own a brain teaming with testosterone ANNND a penis and have for many many years.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

OP: I simply cannot help checking out a woman's boobs whether they're dressed provocatively or not. A woman's breasts are irresistably desirable! But does that negatively affect my relationship to my wife? Quite the contrary. My wife does not have sizable boobs, but I sure love having sex with her, especially when my juices get to flowing by seeing a nice pair. It's not that I'm fantasizing about another woman but rather than I'm getting that aroused feeling and am very happy to share that with my wife and to enjoy the things that I do about her body.


----------



## john_lord_b3

Wiserforit said:


> This is an extremely odd comment coming from someone who says they have read the 5 love languages and is presumably not raised in a Victorian Era convent.
> 
> I'm getting a feeling from this thread that you tend to throw down justifications of convenience. That whatever is going on isn't necessarily related to whatever is being said.
> 
> The tendency to use shaming and guilt-tripping is really caustic to a marriage. Your husband can do the same thing about whatever your needs are and police your behavior for whatever he is insecure about. When we do these things it is to manipulate them instead of having honest and open communication.
> 
> That's how I read the interaction you had with your husband. You "caught" him (translation: your insecurity police harassed him for something normal) and he responded with denial, also not good, and after more interrogation a defensive "you aren't putting out", which led to a counter-defensive "what a hurtful thing to say".
> 
> Despite my wife allowing me hall passes if I want them and having fantasies about me doing other girls, she has lightning bolts of insecurity that strike. But she tells me when they happen. It allows me to go into rescue mode and re-assure her.
> 
> Look how nine pages into the thread you were finally saying what you were really thinking. If the title of the thread matched what was going on in your mind it would be about your insecurity, not your husband's "bad behavior".
> 
> Instead of acting like a cop and "confronting" your husband, consider what might have happened if you had softly expressed your insecurity to him. You can get your husband re-assuring you and showing kindness and understanding instead of denial, counter-attack, and tit-for-tat warfare.
> 
> You don't need to be told that what your friends are doing has no bearing whatsoever on your husband's sexual needs. You aren't stupid. *But you are accustomed to throwing out arguments of convenience instead of what is actually going on in your head*.


:smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## Sanity

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. Has anyone ever experienced this? Does H have wondering eyes. Is it normal? Men, do u guys do this a lot? Check out other women? Butts, boobs? Should i be very upset over what he said? Even though it isnt a lie its not like hes not getting it at all, we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


4-6 a month is pretty low. Try upping the amount. A quickie never killed anybody and if it did, they died with a smile.


----------



## PHTlump

bellawhite said:


> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!


It's not sexless. The poster who asserted that your marriage was sexless was just confused. However, 1 to 2 times a week is a large variance. Once a week is 52 times a year. Twice a week is 104 times a year. That's a big difference. Some men would be content with 104 times a year and ready to chew through leather straps at 52 times a year.

However, frequency is only one part of the equation. The other is rejection. It's easy to say that you're having sex an acceptable amount, so everything is fine. But if you're regularly rejecting your husband's approaches, then you are harming him.

Men express and experience love through sex. When your husband comes to you for sex, and you reject him, you're communicating to him that you're not interested in him showing you that he loves you. That you're not interested in bonding as a couple. That your other duties are more important than his well being and the well being of your marriage. That hurts.


----------



## Topical storm

Faithful Wife said:


> "The friend said it because she was jealous because I wasn't giving her attention. Thats usually what happens in these situations. Ugly friend protector gets bold because her friend looks good."
> 
> Oh yeah. I'm sure that was it.
> 
> Except...if you were a good looking guy, she wouldn't have yelled at you to stop looking would she have? So why would she be flattered about that? Women only yell back "stop lookin' uggo" when they are NOT flattered. Is that news to you?


You perpetually keep putting your foot in your mouth about this particular subject. The friend said something to me only because she thought I was a good looking guy. Since God didn't bless you with exquisite looks or a nice posterior, this concept seems foreign to you. The friend NEVER said "stop looking" or used the words uggo/ugly. She was trying to be funny, impress her friend, and be cool by trying to draw attention to herself and embarrass me, but in the end they both got embarrased.

When she said it, she was cackling. Her words were "Damn you like that assss"" You keep looking at that assss". The manner in which she said it in was in a loud uncouth low class manner. No intelligent or professional woman talks like that in a public manner where people can be heard. She knew what her friend had on and also she said it as if she "caught" me looking. This proves that I wasn't trying to be overt or obvious about the situation. If I was a rapist, potential predator, or ugly as you have falsely asserted, the friend would have NEVER said anything. If anything the friend wanted my attention and kept looking back at me to see if I was looking. The girl with the scantily clad outfit never even saw me, until her attention seeking friend yelled out. The friend had no retort because she acted as though she caught me looking. To which I told her point blank. "I'm definitely looking, look what she's wearing". I'm not some school boy getting caught by his mommy or some man denying he was looking at some woman that was wearing a sl*t's outfit. If I'm looking at you, you will definitely know it.

Women don't talk, engage, or yell at men that they find unattractive. Now tell me is this news to you? You probably are not on the receiving end of many men's eyes, and this is why you chose to falsely assert, rape, predator, and ugly towards me. Do you have anymore false interpretations or negatives that you want to throw toward me because you feel some empathy towards these to "females" dressed in a s**t's attire?


----------



## JCD

Topical storm said:


> You perpetually keep putting your foot in your mouth about this particular subject. The friend said something to me only because she thought I was a good looking guy. Since God didn't bless you with exquisite looks or a nice posterior, this concept seems foreign to you.


While I understand and support your point, the above comment is inappropriate.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Topical storm said:


> Since God didn't bless you with exquisite looks or a nice posterior, this concept seems foreign to you.


:slap:


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Cosmos said:


> Actually, IME, low cut top or not - boobies will get attention. I can wear a polo neck sweater (not tight fitting) and my 38DDs still get attention.


You're 100% right about that.


----------



## Kobo

JCD said:


> While I understand and support your point, the above comment is inappropriate.


It's not but it's the exact type of conversation she was fishing for. She tosses bait like that regularly. My advice to TS would be to use the reporting process of TAM or just ignore.


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

bellawhite said:


> Oh and by the way, we were out to dinner when this happened and he took a few glances, lets say 3 or 4, and she was wearing a low cut tube top!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a little different than what I was thinking, which is why I said in my first post here that I didn’t know if your husband gave your friend’s assets a passing glance or if he eyefvcked her. My husband was like a bird before a snake when faced with my friend’s double D’s; I would’ve felt sorry for him if I and my sad A cups weren’t so insulted and enraged. Your situation sounds a little different. I’m not going to touch the culpability of your “booby trap” friend or give my opinion of the threshold where glancing becomes ogling. It’s not my place or anyone else’s to set the barometer for your comfort level with your husband “checking out” other women. His glancing at your friend’s breasts hurt you and your husband should take your feelings into consideration. 

Similarly, you should not use internet searches of what is “normal” or average sexual frequency or your friends’ sex lives as yardsticks to measure the amount of sex you should be “doling out” to your husband. It’s all relative, which is why, as you stated in your own post, sex experts are reluctant to even quantify “normal” sexual frequency. Your husband has let you know that he is unhappy and not satisfied with the amount of sex you are having…that is all you need to know. You should take his feelings into consideration and respectfully address his needs. 

Several people have already pointed this out to you over the last several pages (some more vehemently than others) and you seem fairly open to their suggestions which I think speaks to your ability to compromise. I do hope you take that accommodating spirit into your relationship. 



bellawhite said:


> Aww formerself that is sweet, a loyal husband is the most important thing to most women id say, she doesnt know what great value she has lost! Thank you all for your comments i do appreciate all of them! But listen let me tell you a little bit about my history, i use to be in love with this boy since i was like 8 or 9, he was my first kiss, just a peck! Anyways, at 11 he called my mom and told her he wanted to date me, she thought it was cute bc his family was friends with mine and told him to wait until we were older, at 13 my friends boyfriend said he wanted me to meet a friend of his, turned out it was my childhood love! Well a month after talking and secretly meeting eachother , by the way he was like 19, we all went to a friends apartment, after a lottttttt of pressuring me, and playing around we had sex! The next day he drove me home, never called me again, and never saw him again! And i heard he went around saying i jusy laid there didnt do anything and i wasnt a virgin, thing is, i was! Could i be carrying around some trauma due to this? When hubby and i were dating we had a greatttttttttt sex life, as soon as i found out we were pregnant with the first and got married i just was never in the mood anymore  trust me, this is not what i want, but i just never feel like doing it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do think what happened to you when you were 13 does affect your overall attitude toward sex and its significance shouldn’t be overlooked. You should see a doctor to check your hormone levels and also seek counseling regarding your statutory rape. You say your sex drive plummeted when you first realized you were pregnant…maybe the reality of having a child of your own that you would have to protect triggered your unresolved issues of what happened to you when you were a child. It’s also salient that you stressed how much the 19 year old pressured you into having sex and now you have created a dynamic in your marriage where your husband has to pressure you into having sex or beg you for it before you will relinquish. Sometimes we unconsciously recreate childhood traumas in our adult lives so that we can cope with the event and work through it. Repetition compulsion, if you will. Individual counseling might help you stop the self-sabotaging pattern and deal with the trauma and your resulting fear of intimacy. I don’t know. It’s worth looking into.

Whatever you do I wish you and your husband the best in resolving your issues. Take care!


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## Curse of Millhaven

just_about_done said:


> First, someone asked if men are slaves to their biology or something like that. In fact yes. Just like women are slaves to theirs. When (if) you get hormonal and start crying for no reason, can you just shut that off? Not really that different.


Please. Shark week doesn’t make me emotional. It’s my “wandering uterus” that makes me hysterical. Get it right, FFS.

Quite a few men have posted that they can and do shake off the shackles of biology and show deference to their spouses by not noticing other women when their wives are with them. Seems some men are able to master their biology and not be enslaved by it after all. Guess I can halt the construction of my time machine, burn my corset, and stop swallowing this tapeworm! Huzzah!


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## JCD

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Please. Shark week doesn’t make me emotional. It’s my “wandering uterus” that makes me hysterical. Get it right, FFS.
> 
> Quite a few men have posted that they can and do shake off the shackles of biology and show deference to their spouses by not noticing other women when their wives are with them. Seems some men are able to master their biology and not be enslaved by it after all. Guess I can halt the construction of my time machine, burn my corset, and stop swallowing this tapeworm! Huzzah!


Feh.

You mistake 'mastering their base impulses' to genteely hiding them from the discovery of their spouse.


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## Topical storm

JCD said:


> While I understand and support your point, the above comment is inappropriate.


I appreciate the support, but she called me a rapist, a potential 
predator, ugly, and even falsely asserted that these two females thought I was it as well, stating it as fact.

She basically did what the two girls I described did. She will learn her lesson, that if you try to throw wise cracks at me, I'm coming back even stronger. If it's inappropriate so be it. Can't go in a lions den if you're only a goat.


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## Curse of Millhaven

JCD said:


> Feh.
> 
> You mistake 'mastering their base impulses' to genteely hiding them from the discovery of their spouse.


Meh. Either way. I'll take it. I'm all about "genteely hiding base impulses". My husband still has both of eyeballs intact after all.


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## Kobo

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Meh. Either way. I'll take it. I'm all about "genteely hiding base impulses". My husband still has both of eyeballs intact after all.


Interesting. What impulses do you hide for him?


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## Faithful Wife

JCD said: "Because every man who walks down the street and notices a woman who dresses provocatively is a potential rapist?"


Did you read the post that this was about?

Girl walks by in provacative outfit. Man notices, checks her out. Other girl yells at him "take a picture" (or whatever). 

Then man yells back that her friend shouldn't dress like a wh*re if she doesn't want to be looked at.

Dude, do you have daughters?

Any idea what it means when a man who CHECKS YOU OUT then tries to SHAME YOU? It means a man who is happy to eye rape you but then will call you a wh*re.

Trust me that women don't need this bullcr*p. If you are going to look, then fine, look. But he didn't need to respond at all when her friend said something. Instead, by responding the way he did, he made himself look like a predator.

If this was your daughter and her friend and if you witnessed it yourself, you might see it the way I do.

Note to the wiser...if a girl looks like a wh*re but you're going to check her out anyway, why insult her at all? What was the point?

Only a real creep would do this.


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## bkaydezz

oh oh this is the perfect time for you to get a corset top a let the ladies overflow! Men are visual creatures and love to look. You can always catch his eye by dressing differently and bustily! If thats what he loves give it to him. And give him some lovins later he will forget about what he was dazing over!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellawhite

Curse of millhaven, thanks for the well wishes that was nice of you! I definetly did learn a lot posting this so I'm glad I did!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eyuop

PHTlump said:


> It's not sexless. The poster who asserted that your marriage was sexless was just confused. However, 1 to 2 times a week is a large variance. Once a week is 52 times a year. Twice a week is 104 times a year. That's a big difference. Some men would be content with 104 times a year and ready to chew through leather straps at 52 times a year.
> 
> However, frequency is only one part of the equation. The other is rejection. It's easy to say that you're having sex an acceptable amount, so everything is fine. But if you're regularly rejecting your husband's approaches, then you are harming him.
> 
> Men express and experience love through sex. When your husband comes to you for sex, and you reject him, you're communicating to him that you're not interested in him showing you that he loves you. That you're not interested in bonding as a couple. That your other duties are more important than his well being and the well being of your marriage. That hurts.


There was a whole lot of truth to this post. A whole lot. Women, take notice! :smthumbup:


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## Caribbean Man

Wow., this thread still running.

Again, let me say that I understand the natural urges of men to look and admire.
However , I can speak for me. I love to look and admire, but in my line of business , I deal with only women. Women in the corporate sectors at all levels . Professional women, all sorts of races , shapes , ages and looks.
I do image [ fashion ] consultancy for these women, and I literally tell them how to dress, and what to wear and how to wear it.
I can't ogle a pair of boobies or a nice a$$ everytime I see one . I see it as part of the entire package of the client/ woman, no " eye rapping" or else I loose business and they would call me a creep.

Maybe I've seen too much of this stuff lol, but I don't know why men make such a fuss over it , have you guys ever been to a clothing optional resort or beach?

Before I had my own business, when I worked in the fashion industry, I had my full share of naked, topless models at every fashion show,preparing models for the catwalk, and I still didn't ogle.
Not that I didn't notice, but definitely I had my biological urges under control. My high paying job and status depended on it.
Funny thing is, I still got offers for casual encounters and invites for wild after parties.
But I never accepted or attended even though I felt " the urge " to.
I also kept those urges under control,
My marriage depended on it.

I'm not saying it is wrong to look and gratify / satisfy one's curiosities. Women's bodies were designed partly for that purpose.
But sometimes I think as men, we give ourselves a little to much freedom in that respect.
Sometimes we go overboard.


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## Kobo

Caribbean Man said:


> Wow., this thread still running.
> 
> Again, let me say that I understand the natural urges of men to look and admire.
> However , I can speak for me. I love to look and admire, but in my line of business , I deal with only women. Women in the corporate sectors at all levels . Professional women, all sorts of races , shapes , ages and looks.
> I do image [ fashion ] consultancy for these women, and I literally tell them how to dress, and what to wear and how to wear it.
> I can't ogle a pair of boobies or a nice a$$ everytime I see one . I see it as part of the entire package of the client/ woman, no " eye rapping" or else I loose business and they would call me a creep.
> 
> Maybe I've seen too much of this stuff lol, but I don't know why men make such a fuss over it , have you guys ever been to a clothing optional resort or beach?
> 
> Before I had my own business, when I worked in the fashion industry, I had my full share of naked, topless models at every fashion show,preparing models for the catwalk, and I still didn't ogle.
> Not that I didn't notice, but definitely I had my biological urges under control. My high paying job and status depended on it.
> Funny thing is, I still got offers for casual encounters and invites for wild after parties.
> But I never accepted or attended even though I felt " the urge " to.
> I also kept those urges under control,
> My marriage depended on it.
> 
> I'm not saying it is wrong to look and gratify / satisfy one's curiosities. Women's bodies were designed partly for that purpose.
> But sometimes I think as men, we give ourselves a little to much freedom in that respect.
> Sometimes we go overboard.


I'm pretty sure the only person making a big fuss about the original topic was the OP. Also it's been shown that the husband was not "ogling" the friend. So basically you have the same control over yourself that the OP's husband has. Congrats. :smthumbup:


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## Curse of Millhaven

bellawhite said:


> Curse of millhaven, thanks for the well wishes that was nice of you! I definetly did learn a lot posting this so I'm glad I did!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure thing, Bella! 

I'm glad you got some insight from all of this...hope it helps.


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## Curse of Millhaven

Kobo said:


> Interesting. What impulses do you hide for him?


Well, I was alluding to the fact that I sublimated my temper and violent knee-jerk reaction with regard to my husband’s disrespect of me. But to answer your question I don’t hide from my husband. I’ve discussed my “base impulses” with him ad nauseam. I’ve had to repress a thriving sex drive because he has no interest other than porn and apparently ogling other women. I’ve had other men "elevator eye" me and outright hit on me and I do not engage or entertain them. At all. And in spite of everything I don't ogle other men (well, tangible men anyway...celebrities/2-dimensional men, sure...I'm devoted not dead!); in actuality I only have eyes for my husband. So a little quid pro quo from him would be nice. Regardless, I’m nothing if not fiercely loyal and unfortunately (for me) I do love him.

Anyway… let’s get back to the previously scheduled programming.


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## Kobo

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Well, I was alluding to the fact that I sublimated my temper and violent knee-jerk reaction with regard to my husband’s disrespect of me. But to answer your question I don’t hide from my husband. I’ve discussed my “base impulses” with him ad nauseam. I’ve had to repress a thriving sex drive because he has no interest other than porn and apparently ogling other women. I’ve had other men "elevator eye" me and outright hit on me and I do not engage or entertain them. At all. And in spite of everything I don't ogle other men (well, tangible men anyway...celebrities/2-dimensional men, sure...I'm devoted not dead!); in actuality I only have eyes for my husband. So a little quid pro quo from him would be nice. Regardless, I’m nothing if not fiercely loyal and unfortunately (for me) I do love him.
> 
> Anyway… let’s get back to the previously scheduled programming.


I'm thinking you may need to let your temper out the cage if that's the case. You get one life to live. No point in wasting it with someone who can't/won't love you in a way that is satisfying to you or at least make the effort to.


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## Curse of Millhaven

Kobo said:


> I'm thinking you may need to let your temper out the cage if that's the case.


Oh believe me, it's been unleashed, albeit in a respectful way. We're at an impasse and it's do-or-die now. 



Kobo said:


> You get one life to live. No point in wasting it with someone who can't/won't love you in a way that is satisfying to you or at least make the effort to.


Indeed!


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## Topical storm

This has become a problem in western society. Women have become entitled to dress, act, and talk a certain way to men and not expect any repercussions. If a woman tries to shame you in public, a man should just sit there and take it. And if you respond you now become a predator or creep. But the female that decided to act like an animal should be given a pass Lol. Not in the world I live in. A woman is going to receive what she dishes out. Women (not all) need to be accountable for their actions.

Society has dropped the ball. Men are now in fear because anything said toward a woman and you can become ostracized, or possibly find yourself in jail based off a woman's words, and it doesn't even have to be true.

A person that dresses in a clown outfit gets stares right? What makes it any different when a female dresses in clown make up exposing her body parts to the world?


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## olwhatsisname

Plan 9 from OS said:


> First, it's normal for guys to check out other women. Even if I was getting sex daily, I'd still check out other women - it's natural.
> 
> Second, 4 - 6 times a month is definitely on the low side IMHO. If that is all your H is getting, and he already told you it wasn't enough by saying: men can't not look. It is in our DNA. i need also smiles, hugs and all of you. mankind would cease to exist if not for( the whole package) boobs included.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...he's not getting enough sex in his mind. Did you ever ask him how frequently he wants to have sex? My wife and I have it 3 - 4 times a week. Less than that (unless there are legitimate reasons) would not be acceptable. If I was married to you, I'd refuse to accept such a paltry number of times per month.
> 
> I'd keep this thought in mind: If you and he had discussions about sex and you refuse to come up with a good compromise on frequency of sex in your marriage - one that both of you can agree to - don't be surprised if he eventually divorces you, cheats on you or simply loses his love/closeness to you.


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## PHTlump

Faithful Wife said:


> JCD said: "Because every man who walks down the street and notices a woman who dresses provocatively is a potential rapist?"
> 
> 
> Did you read the post that this was about?
> 
> Girl walks by in provacative outfit. Man notices, checks her out. Other girl yells at him "take a picture" (or whatever).
> 
> Then man yells back that her friend shouldn't dress like a wh*re if she doesn't want to be looked at.


So you're saying that every man who notices a woman dressed provocatively, and then refuses to allow her friend to loudly berate him for noticing is a potential rapist? I don't think that's much different from JCD's interpretation of your post.



> Dude, do you have daughters?
> 
> Any idea what it means when a man who CHECKS YOU OUT then tries to SHAME YOU? It means a man who is happy to eye rape you but then will call you a wh*re.


I don't know if JCD has daughters, but I have one. And I will not allow my daughter to dress like a wh0re. And I will teach her as a child so that, when she is an adult and making her own decisions on how to dress, she will understand that dressing like a wh0re WILL result in men leering at you. I mean, that's the whole point of dressing like a wh0re.



> Trust me that women don't need this bullcr*p. If you are going to look, then fine, look. But he didn't need to respond at all when her friend said something. Instead, by responding the way he did, he made himself look like a predator.


You haven't established this at all. Responding simply made him look like a man who won't accept abuse at the hands of a woman. That's not my definition of a predator.



> If this was your daughter and her friend and if you witnessed it yourself, you might see it the way I do.
> 
> Note to the wiser...if a girl looks like a wh*re but you're going to check her out anyway, why insult her at all? What was the point?
> 
> Only a real creep would do this.


My daughter will understand the purpose, and the consequences, of dressing like a wh0re. Men will look at you. And you lose the ability to claim that you weren't interested in being ogled by men.

As I said in an earlier post, if I strip naked, light myself on fire, and run through a crowd screaming, "Don't look at me!" I will not be surprised if people stare. And I certainly wouldn't have the temerity to accuse them of being creeps for staring. I would take responsibility for my own actions.


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## TCSRedhead

bella - how that you've had all this insight, what's your plan for opening a dialogue with your husband?


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## JCD

TCSRedhead said:


> bella - how that you've had all this insight, what's your plan for opening a dialogue with your husband?


I myself am on pins and needles.


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## Interlocutor

Who are these people that believe that a man staring has zero responsibility for the resulting grievance laid by the offended woman?

Who are these people that believe that a woman being stared at has zero responsibility for her own sense of violated privacy?

Whoever they are, they're making this thread a pain to discuss what would be otherwise easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Terry_CO

bellawhite said:


> I confronted him about it and after a lot of denying it, he said well this is not an excuse but when ur not gettin it at home ur eyes start to wonder...now that i think of it, thats so hurtful. _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why is it hurtful? It's how we men are wired. When we get horny, we start looking at the "landscape" a little more closely. It's biological. It doesn't mean we are going to hump the first skirt we see. It's just an involuntary reaction to being horny.



bellawhite said:


> ...we do it 4-6 times a month! Is that horrible? _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends on your age. If you're 80, it's so often it might kill you both. If you're 20-ish, it is indeed horrible  10 to 12 times a month is a little more like it.


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## imtamnew

Maybe H was not even checking them out.

Just to avoid nagging agreed and confessed so you would let it go.


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## marko

I simply told my wife she should be concerned when I stop looking.


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## Battle_Cats

If he didn't touch the tit, you must acquit!


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## Battle_Cats

Interlocutor said:


> Who are these people that believe that a man staring has zero responsibility for the resulting grievance laid by the offended woman?
> 
> Who are these people that believe that a woman being stared at has zero responsibility for her own sense of violated privacy?
> 
> Whoever they are, they're making this thread a pain to discuss what would be otherwise easier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Men like breasts. We like to see them. Women have breasts that don't generally recede after breastfeeding because of evolutionary response to males. 

Add to that, no woman puts them on display assuming no one will look because that is EXACTLY what they were intended for BY DESIGN. Women absolutely know this. Therefore, it isn't the looking that offends women, it is how she feels about the particular man looking at them that offends the woman.

If the male looking at them is George Clooney, I guarantee no woman will complain. Some may even want him to sign them. She'll be happy for a month that a stud like Clooney checked her out.

If it is your average Joe Sixpack, she'll complain, write an opinion piece about misogyny on her blog and double her contribution to N.O.W..

If it's a homeless guy, she'll run screaming to the nearest police station leaving a cloud of pepper spray trailing behind her.

The next day though, they'll be back on display again. Ready to perform the next day's hypocrisy.

Oh and BTW, here is a truth that no man will admit to himself or a woman: men will check out a guy with man boobs. Even though it is gross and not at all appealing, ya just gotta look out of some weird compelling curious urge. *THAT* is how strong the urge to scope boobage is. So don't flatter yourselves honeys, we'd scope 'em if they were stuck to the side of a barn.


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## Suspecting

I checked out a pair of boobs today and I'm proud of it! It's biological.


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## nogutsnoglory

bellawhite said:


> Curse of millhaven- good details in describing your thoughts! Lol and i do agree with u that it shouldnt be 'i'm a man' excuse. An also that i should take his feelings into consideration!
> But seriously, i dont get why MEN need sex to feel connected to their wives! I dont
> Understand why sex is sooo important to them, or him! I think he values that more than the fact we are a family and have kids together, that is a huge connection in itself! Oh and i do appreciate all the reaponses and read and think them through carefully! And no i'm not purposefully trying to be a future poster in the infedelity section, its not my fault im not sex crazy, if he wanted sex twice a day
> He should have married a man, jk!
> But seriously?
> Sex sex sex, it makes me nuts just thinking about it! Id seriously be ok with it once a month, and when he checks out other boobs, once a year!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you do not get it then read a book or 10,000 about it. You are very wrong to be this naïve at this point in your marriage and you need to fix your knowledge level immediately. you are not meeting his needs. Part of that need is to simply feed his ego and the fact that you are essentially forcing yourself to have sex with him the little you do is wearing a hole in his manhood. He will fill that hole eventually, either you can fill the hole in his ego or he will go find another and fill her. Not trying to be meaner than is needed but you need a wake up call or your going to be posting on the infidelity board soon.
Get educated quickly


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## Omgitsjoe

I've often would catch a buddy or acquaintance checking out my wife's long, lean legs when she's in a sexy skirt or shorts ........ 

Not for nothing but I can't blame them  !?!?


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## nogutsnoglory

bellawhite said:


> I read this online: So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
> 
> So like my average is over 70 times a year, not sure how that is considered sexless! And 1 to 2 a week seems like average from what they say, and this article was written after the talk shows orah and dr phil spoke about sexless marriages! So i guess mine isnt really considered sexless afterall!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you also stated that the majority of the sex you have is due to him begging for it. So the actual sex you show him you want is how much of the sex you actually have? He is tired of the current sex life and wants to feel wanted is my point.
If you asked him once a month during your marriage how he thought you looked and he said fine I guess every time would you feel wanted. Honey can we have sex? Fine, I guess...


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