# Feels like I am in a sex prison



## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

I haven't posted here in several years, and reading my old posts, I see that I am STILL in the same position I was back then. Monogamy prison! 

I have zero to little attraction to my husband, and it has been that way for years. We have good sex (oddly enough) but I spend 100% of the time fantasizing about the waiter last night, coworker, etc. Several years back when this problem arose, I dove into counseling, books, advice podcasts, etc, you name it- to figure out how to survive this issue, for the sake of my kids. I learned that every marriage has a "price of admission", and for mine, it's ZERO emotional connection and sexual attraction. I weighed out the good- no cheating from him (that I know of), no abuse, very loyal, good person, good father, no addictions, etc. I shoved my feelings in a box and just "skated on ice" being the happy wife. I continue to work on my career, my goals and my kids. I keep my body fit, my hair done and a solid support group around me. He continues to work hard and remains emotionally unattached. I have learned that this is just WHO he is. He isn't emotionally attached to anyone at all. I will NOT get that from him, so I don't seek it out. I get my emotional needs from friends. The sexual part, is another story.

I travel for work every six months or so, and what began as a few harmless flirtations with strangers, is escalating each time I travel. I go to the bar by myself and flirt with men. Some are married and its obvious we are enjoying each others company, and a little fantasy that goes with it. It has never crossed any physical lines until the last trip. I ended up partying with a group of single guys. We ended up at a strip club, in the private back room and sh*t happened. I didn't have sex, not even oral, but we were naked. This event opened up pandoras box! And by box I mean her private part, because I have been charged up sexually ever since. I was and still am, so turned on by the idea of screwing a total stranger. Girls don't turn me on, but seeing naked women everywhere, who were larger than me, made me feel hot. I have been on fire sexually, ever since! I've been watching porn on my phone when no one is around. I am sending off some sort of "screw me" vibe, because men are staring at me everywhere I go. Last night I was at a friends house, and her husband and I were eye f*cking the whole night. I would never touch another woman's man, but it's like this surge of sexuality has awakened, and men are picking up on it. 

I have, after all these years, come to realize that monogamy is the prison I live in. Before begin single, I craved human diversity, sexually, physically, emotionally. I got married because I was in love, and like most marriages, we defaulted to monogamy. There were no discussions of open relationships, or polyamory back then. 

It's been 13 years of monogamy sex prison and I don't know what to do. I DO NOT wan to become a cheater, but I am so scared that I will slip up. I don't want to send out ho*ny vibes that attract my friends husbands. I also do not want to break up my marriage. I know that sounds crazy, but I love our family, our house, our trips. So far, I have let those aspects trump the sexual side of me, but it's becoming harder and harder to do. I want to wake up and think about putting in a new fence at our house, not seducing the cable guy. But this is my brain- all day, thinking about seducing and sleeping with strange, sexy men. I'm exhausted by the struggle, confused by my growing sexual appetite and saddened by the idea of marriage that has slipped through the cracks.

It feels stupid to leave a marriage to f*ck strange guys, but honestly, I think some of us are not wired for monogamy. I am 100% not, despite coming from a solid family who's parents are still together. There is no divorce on my side.

I am thinking of asking him for an open marriage, but seeing as how our communication is so ****ty, I feel like it might blow up in my face. What should I do? Suffer the rest of my life? Stick it out until the kids move away (12 more years) and hope that I don't slip up? I HATE living in secrecy. I am not bothered that I have these thoughts, but I am deeply bothered by the secrecy. 

I'm not even sure what I'm directly asking... just for advice on how to survive this! What should I do???


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You need to address this with your husband. You need to tell him exactly what you wrote above. You need to either ask permission to have an open marriage, or agree to a divorce. Anything else WILL be cheating on him. 
@Vinnydee might be able to guide you with respect to the open marriage thing. As far as the divorce thing, it's entirely possible to have an amicable divorce, to co parent effectively, and for it to be a GOOD thing all around.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Wow, you sound amazing! I'm going to try and talk to my husband, but he sounds nothing like you. He is very possessive, and narcissistic. The thought of him reading/studying something about me sounds ludicrous! He would never.

But I'm going to try. Your story gives me hope!


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

HOpe, do you think risking divorce for sex is silly though? This is the fear that holds me back. The fear that if it leads to divorce, it will be because of sex.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think there's really only one way out of this situation. There's probably no way that your H will want an open marriage and how do you explain to your kids about an open marriage? You're going to have to get a divorce whether you want to go that route or not. I understand how you feel about having no attraction or desire for your spouse, I have none either. I feel that the finance aspects of divorce are holding me hostage. There's no good way to resolve this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

JuliaP said:


> HOpe, do you think risking divorce for sex is silly though? This is the fear that holds me back. The fear that if it leads to divorce, it will be because of sex.


"SEX" is such a complicated word. This could have been about anything - anything at all. It just happens to be about sex, specifically your sexual needs. You have had an epiphany about yourself that you did not realize when you got married. You haven't done the bait and switch thing. You are anguished about the whole thing. 

If you were raised anything like me, you were taught that sex is a dirty thing. It's less dirty if it happens between married people, but it belongs in the dark. We DO NOT talk about it. Mostly we don't particularly enjoy it. If we do enjoy it we CERTAINLY don't talk about it. This attitude does such a huge disservice to healthy relationships I wish I could just blow it up. People have a need for sex. FULFILLING sex. It's a HUGE HUGE part of any marriage and a HUGE HUGE source of conflict and misunderstanding.

The bottom line is, do you want to and CAN you spend the rest of your life like this? Do you really want to be on your deathbed wishing you hadn't had this fear to speak up? Or knowing you cheated? Knowing you had the power to make your life different and you didn't?


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> "SEX" is such a complicated word. This could have been about anything - anything at all. It just happens to be about sex, specifically your sexual needs. You have had an epiphany about yourself that you did not realize when you got married. You haven't done the bait and switch thing. You are anguished about the whole thing.
> 
> If you were raised anything like me, you were taught that sex is a dirty thing. It's less dirty if it happens between married people, but it belongs in the dark. We DO NOT talk about it. Mostly we don't particularly enjoy it. If we do enjoy it we CERTAINLY don't talk about it. This attitude does such a huge disservice to healthy relationships I wish I could just blow it up. People have a need for sex. FULFILLING sex. It's a HUGE HUGE part of any marriage and a HUGE HUGE source of conflict and misunderstanding.
> 
> The bottom line is, do you want to and CAN you spend the rest of your life like this? Do you really want to be on your deathbed wishing you hadn't had this fear to speak up? Or knowing you cheated? Knowing you had the power to make your life different and you didn't?


Wow.... I have tears in eyes, you are SO right! My husband was raised strict Catholic and I was in a similar situation- in both sex was never discussed and considered a dirty topic. I could have saved myself so much anguish had I discussed these things with my husband prior to marriage. But we never did. We still don't. He gets very weird. It's the madonna-***** complex in full effect! I know he enjoys porn, but when it comes to viewing his wife as a vibrant, curious sexual being, it's bad. It's taboo, dirty. You NAILED it, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. I appreciate what you have said!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

What you are doing now is trying to have both things. You can't and it is unfair to your husband to do that. He also deserves to be with someone who is monogamous as that was the deal he agreed to. If that is not you, then you will eventually be unfaithful. You have to decide one of the other. Both involve pain. You are being unfair to try to selfishly minimizing your risk and pain at his expense. Bottom like there is very little chance you can have both. If you need to divorce to see other people then you have to do that.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

OP - in my opinion, getting naked with your friends is cheating. My guess is your H would feel the same. Time to address this and prep for the eventual D. If you truly care for your H, don't fight too hard in your D.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

JuliaP said:


> ... do you think risking divorce for sex is silly though? This is the fear that holds me back. The fear that if it leads to divorce, it will be because of sex.


So what if you think it's silly? It really isn't, because people do have needs (to varying degrees) for emotional and sexual connection. That's a large part of what marriage is about, and your marriage (husband, rather) is failing you in this.

I have the best marriage of anyone I know, and it's also an open marriage. I don't think an open marriage will work for you given your husband's attitudes, but the only other solution is to divorce him to find an emotional and sexual connection with someone(s) else. If you are willing to consider divorce, then there's nothing to lose by asking for an open marriage. The worst case is that you end up divorced over it anyway, and the best case (or is it?) is that he agrees. If he agrees, it may provide a temporary solution, but long term it probably won't suffice for you, IMO.

I divorced my ex for lack of emotional intimacy and sex. I am much, much happier now, and have a wonderful wife and relationship with an abundance of both.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Julia, how old are you, I am wondering whether you are pre-menopausal and have been hit by the hyper sexuality hormonal change that happens to some women?
You have nothing to do but discuss this with your H, you never know he may be willing to meet your heightened sexuality, if not consider a sex therapist, it can do no harm.
Divorcing over sex which may just be a passing phase, is a little extreme, though I think there are more serious issues afoot in your marriage such as lack of connection and emotional empathy and support. These are issues that could be worked on with an MC.
If your H thinks there is nothing wrong, and doesn't want any therapy, counselling, then start considering your options.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

sokillme said:


> What you are doing now is trying to have both things. You can't and it is unfair to your husband to do that. He also deserves to be with someone who is monogamous as that was the deal he agreed to. If that is not you, then you will eventually be unfaithful. You have to decide one of the other. Both involve pain. You are being unfair to try to selfishly minimizing your risk and pain at his expense. Bottom like there is very little chance you can have both. If you need to divorce to see other people then you have to do that.


I know. I feel like a horrible human.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

aine said:


> Julia, how old are you, I am wondering whether you are pre-menopausal and have been hit by the hyper sexuality hormonal change that happens to some women?
> You have nothing to do but discuss this with your H, you never know he may be willing to meet your heightened sexuality, if not consider a sex therapist, it can do no harm.
> Divorcing over sex which may just be a passing phase, is a little extreme, though I think there are more serious issues afoot in your marriage such as lack of connection and emotional empathy and support. These are issues that could be worked on with an MC.
> If your H thinks there is nothing wrong, and doesn't want any therapy, counselling, then start considering your options.


I am 37. I have not considered what you said, but it sounds interesting! Does hypersexuality hit around this age? I have a non-stop porno playing in my head. It's honestly exhausting.

I think the point everyone is making is that I need to address it with my husband. He is usually so unwilling to do any counseling, or work. Throughout the years its always been me- I read all the books, I initiated the MC and then went alone when he dropped out, I do all the posting in forums, initiate all the dates. He just isn't wired to seek help in the same way I am. He doesn't seek any help at all. 

Staying in this marriage required that I stop expecting those things from him. After years of trying I gave up, and just accepted that this is my marriage. I guess I thought living with unmet needs would be easier than it has been. :|


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Sounds to me you are now in your sexually awakening that most women goes thru during the mid part of life...30ish to 40s. I know when that happened to me I was a sex machine. I thought of sex constantly. I started reading erotica novels...way more porn than romantic. I didn't mind watching porn, I was ready for sex at a wink. I was coming on to my H more and it had nothing to do with emotional connection. I was just hot. 

You wrote that sex is good between you and your H. So why can't you guys screw like bunnies? Unleash your sexuality on him...get your itch scratched. 

Because the road you are on now only leads to bad things happening i.e Losing friends because you are moving boundaries by being attracted to their husbands. And getting involved in risky behavior. Figure out what you want and talk to your man. And buy some toys and take some long baths.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, first off you owe it to your H to discuss this with him. Second off, you shouldn't look at it as "divorcing about sex" you should look at it as divorcing to become happy. If you truly have these urges that are apparently taking over your life, you owe it yourself to be happy. The only thing we owe someone else is honesty, you should accept nothing less for yourself. Be honest to your H and to yourself.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Are you in love with your husband?

You have already went way, way too far in my opinion on that work trip where you got naked and "things happened." Your husband deserves to hear all of that, and at that point, the decision might be made for you. Ask yourself, if he went to a strip club and got naked with a bunch of women, how would you feel?

*The answer is yes, you will give up the things you say you love (your family, home, vacations etc) for sex with strangers.* 

As green as the grass on the other side appears in your head, it isn't. Divorce is extremely difficult on all involved, and even if you are happy years down the road, a ton of damage is done to get there. I recommend taking a look at your own moral code. From what I'm gathering, you are in a good marriage to someone that doesn't give you butterflies, but checks most of all of the other boxes of a good partner and father. You chose to marry him, to give vows to him. Should you throw that all away, and drag your kids through a divorce and the rest of their childhood and lives without their parents together because you want to have the constant new F buddy excitement? Only you can answer that question. The next time that porno starts running in your head, picture your children's faces going through the certain hell you will put them through so you can live a immoral life.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There was a book written by a woman who told her husband she wanted an open marriage and did it for a year and they ended up divorcing. I will post if I can figure out what book it was. I read it a couple years ago and was left thinking she seemed just - empty at the end.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Spicy said:


> Are you in love with your husband?- Yes. I guess. I know that in most marriages you fall in and out of love. Maybe we are on an out.
> 
> You have already went way, way too far in my opinion on that work trip where you got naked and "things happened." Your husband deserves to hear all of that, and at that point, the decision might be made for you. Ask yourself, if he went to a strip club and got naked with a bunch of women, how would you feel?- One thing to point out is that I was unusually drunk. I know its not an excuse, but when more sober, or just buzzing, I have never gone that far. And honestly, I wouldn't mind if he had the same experience. If fact, I would love it, because it meant he was experiencing the same issues as I am. I would be open to swinging, going to clubs together with him.
> 
> ...


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

brooklynAnn said:


> Sounds to me you are now in your sexually awakening that most women goes thru during the mid part of life...30ish to 40s. I know when that happened to me I was a sex machine. I thought of sex constantly. I started reading erotica novels...way more porn than romantic. I didn't mind watching porn, I was ready for sex at a wink. I was coming on to my H more and it had nothing to do with emotional connection. I was just hot.
> 
> You wrote that sex is good between you and your H. So why can't you guys screw like bunnies? Unleash your sexuality on him...get your itch scratched.
> 
> Because the road you are on now only leads to bad things happening i.e Losing friends because you are moving boundaries by being attracted to their husbands. And getting involved in risky behavior. Figure out what you want and talk to your man. And buy some toys and take some long baths.


I love your suggestions! i have in the past suggested going to sex shops, or trying new things and it falls on deaf ears. I'm going to try again though.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

JuliaP said:


> I love your suggestions! i have in the past suggested going to sex shops, or trying new things and it falls on deaf ears. I'm going to try again though.


your H is not hearing your message. Not pointing fingers at either of you, but you need to make sure he understands that you are one tipsy night away from cheating on him/you already have depending on your perspective. He needs to know that a) you are close to cheating due to sexual needs and b) divorce is not far away either. He needs to help you through this or realize D is likely...


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

JuliaP said:


> I haven't posted here in several years, and reading my old posts, I see that I am STILL in the same position I was back then. Monogamy prison!
> 
> I have zero to little attraction to my husband, and it has been that way for years. We have good sex (oddly enough) but I spend 100% of the time fantasizing about the waiter last night, coworker, etc. Several years back when this problem arose, I dove into counseling, books, advice podcasts, etc, you name it- to figure out how to survive this issue, for the sake of my kids. I learned that every marriage has a "price of admission", and for mine, it's ZERO emotional connection and sexual attraction. I weighed out the good- no cheating from him (that I know of), no abuse, very loyal, good person, good father, no addictions, etc. I shoved my feelings in a box and just "skated on ice" being the happy wife. I continue to work on my career, my goals and my kids. I keep my body fit, my hair done and a solid support group around me. He continues to work hard and remains emotionally unattached. I have learned that this is just WHO he is. He isn't emotionally attached to anyone at all. I will NOT get that from him, so I don't seek it out. I get my emotional needs from friends. The sexual part, is another story.
> 
> ...


Would you share why you're not attracted to your husband any more? You've gone through a sexual awakening, which there isn't anything wrong with. But is there any reason that your newly found sexual energy couldn't be directed at your husband with a little bit of work (counseling, him getting in better shape, forging the beginning of an emotional connection, etc. Whatever it is that's lacking.)?

If this lack of connection is a deal-breaker for you, then tell him that. Tell him that you need to feel connected with him, and attracted to him. Tell him that you need your sex life with each other to become more fun, more playful, more exciting.

A marriage does have a price, but it doesn't need to be a price you're not willing to pay. If he loves you, and is attached to you, then the possibility of you leaving will motivate him into acting. Don't threaten him, just tell him that this is really important to you, and that you need him to understand, and that it would mean the world to you if he started meeting your needs.


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## deepsouth (Apr 28, 2017)

Spicy said:


> Are you in love with your husband?
> 
> You have already went way, way too far in my opinion on that work trip where you got naked and "things happened." Your husband deserves to hear all of that, and at that point, the decision might be made for you. Ask yourself, if he went to a strip club and got naked with a bunch of women, how would you feel?
> 
> ...


Probably need to add into the mix the prevalence of STIs. Since sex with strangers seems to be high on the list I think that one should carefully consider the percentages when deciding what they think will make them 'happy'. Could one really be 'happy' after contracting an STI?

I'm no statistician but when I googled 'prevalence of STIs' a CDC report citing numbers seemed to indicate that it is close to 1/3 of the population? Yikes. I think I would give up on ever having that kind of 'happiness!'


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Just divorce him. Do not tell him about your feelings.

Do not tell him about your actions at the strip club.

By divorcing you will go out with your head held high.

Asking for an open marriage, will cement his having an image of you having wide open legs and wide open boundaries. 

Maintain your dignity.

Keep your lust a secret. Do not tell anyone.... ever, how you feel. These feeling will dissipate.

Once divorced, insist on condom wear from every partner.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

I feel sorry for your husband. I think he would be devastated to learn that you were in a naked grope at a strip club with a bunch of strangers. How could he ever trust you again? I wouldn't. Have some respect for yourself, your husband, and your kids. Get all the way in or get all the way out of this marriage.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

@EleGirl May I ask, is a ban on SunCMars in the works?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Do you think you could enjoy a monogamous relationship with anyone? Some people are just not wired that way, they crave the variety and excitement of new people all the time.

If you can't enjoy a monogamous relationship, then divorcing is probably the best choice. Otherwise I don't see any way for this relationship to be happy.

Otherwise is there something specific your husband could do to be more desirable? Don't use fuzzy terms like "emotionally available" but be specific. Sometimes fuzzy words just cover a general unhappiness without revealing its cause.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I don't know if this is a phase or if you really want to be with your husband, but a different version of him. Odds are he won't change, it's just how bings are. I certainly would try, assuming that is what you want.

But don't ever live in a prison. For whatever reason. Maybe this life wasn't meant for you. It wasn't for my ex wife. Just be honest with yourself and with him.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

If it was just sex you were missing, toys would be sufficient. But since there is zero emotional connection at home, this may be causing you some confusion.

You could have wild sex with a stranger and then be left feeling used and not satisfied because of yet the lack of emotional connection. 

Be careful with putting yourself out there, you are vulnerable and some could take advantage. Most are out for cheap thrills. 

I'm not sure what decision you should make, that's up to you, but I would recommend getting yourself some counselling to find out more about yourself and check your self esteem. 

Find out more about emotional connection and how to achieve it. You might find out that your husband isn't right for you and with the counselling, you will have the confidence to leave. 


Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I made non monogamy work for 44 years and we are finally monogamous now. Take a look at this and learn why monogamy causes problems. https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-20649/why-my-husband-i-sometimes-have-sex-with-other-people.html

Like you, we are in love but my wife began to feel her bisexual side and I have always been a poly type of guy. Instead of having our marriage go down with the ship, we chose our marriage over monogamy. We did various forms of groups sex, but not too much, and never repeating it so as to avoid developing feelings. Except in one case when it just worked out perfectly for us. We found a girlfriend who was perfect for both of us and who we have known for most of our lives and already loved as if she was family. We found that as a threesome, our life was better and the sex was great. Plus seeing your spouse with someone else sparks a new interest in them. A genetic competition thing I guess. We shared my wife's best friend who I knew even longer than my wife did, for 30 years. 

Here are a few more sources to take a look at. For us it was a matter of me wanting certain needs met which my wife could not meet. For my wife, well, I do not have a vagina so she had to find someone better equipped. :smile2: 

Rethinking monogamy today - CNN.com

And to show that I am not a perverted sex monster, here are some things to do within the confines of monogamy. Make sure you read the part about how sex produces the hormone Oxytocin which emotionally bonds a couple together. I think you are already doing what this article suggests but maybe it will put it into perspective. Just because my wife and I found an answer in non monogamy, does not mean I recommend it to others. Jealousy may come out of nowhere and bite you in the butt. Best to work it out between you but in my case, my wife needed a woman in her life as well as me so we had no choice. I just hate to see people who rather cheat within the confines of monogamy and divorce because of it, then to change their marriage to preserve it. We still were attracted to each other but we needed more. So we abandoned the current model of marriage which fails half of the time. I do not know if couples think about what they are doing when they get married. They would not buy a car that had a 50% chance of failing but they enter into a life long contract of marriage. I really do know the reason. It is love. Love makes up overlook each other's faults and all obstacles. The problem arises when the romantic love we once had while engaged, goes away and we see each other with warts and all. 

How long does passion last? The four stages of love - TODAY.com

https://pairedlife.com/relationships/Im-Not-Attracted-to-My-Husband-Sexually-What-to-Do


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I weep for all the men who gave their all only to find out their wife never really loved or desired them.


they just tolerated them because they didn't know any better. and after many years decide that they must find themselves.

I'm not bashing you. Just sad how often this happens.


I also weep for all the women who were in the same boat.

this is why marriage is a sham. all show and no go. 

in sickness and in health
richer or poorer
forsake all others

are these words meaningless? sorry to say for 50% they are.

IMHO go to your husband and try your fing hardest to rekindle some embers of desire if he won't take the lead then you lead the way.

good luck


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is a book that might help you. I think that your husband would benefit from reading it as well.

You also might want to look up the author on youtube. She has a few Ted Talks and other videos that I think would help you.

*Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence* by Esther Perel


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

BioFury said:


> @EleGirl May I ask, is a ban on SunCMars in the works?




Yes please, because anything this person posts is rude, nasty or outright stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

JuliaP said:


> I'm not even sure what I'm directly asking... just for advice on how to survive this! What should I do???


An open marriage would mean you having lots of sex with other men and him not having lots of sex with other women. I kinda doubt he's going to go for that. Better off not proposing it.

Having lots of sex with strange men is sure going to be exciting in the short term but I doubt that it's going to result in long term happiness for you. If your desire for sex with strangers doesn't go away at some point (or turns out to have been driven my your husband's faults), then happiness in an LTR is probably unlikely. What happens when you get old and the strangers you're hitting on start turning you down (or you have to start looking for a lower class of stranger)?

If you want to wake up your husband so that he can give saving the marriage a try, telling him that if things don't improve you're afraid that you'll bang the next attractive guy who shows you some interest might do the trick.

There is a possibility that the "hyper sexuality" that you're going through is a phase (other women on TAM have experienced it), then what happens when your libido goes away?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Remee81 said:


> Yes please, because anything this person posts is rude, nasty or outright stupid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I enjoy most of Sun's posts, even if I don't agree with some of them. I haven't seen any where he was deliberately rude or nasty. If people got banned for giving unpopular advice, this place would be a wasteland.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> I enjoy most of Sun's posts, even if I don't agree with some of them. I haven't seen any where he was deliberately rude or nasty. If people got banned for giving unpopular advice, this place would be a wasteland.


His posts aren't unpopular, they're nonsensical. What the hell is he even saying? I have no idea. Might as well be spam.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

BioFury said:


> His posts aren't unpopular, they're nonsensical. What the hell is he even saying? I have no idea. Might as well be spam.


He uses a lot of allegory and wordplay, but there's normally a point he's making.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> There was a book written by a woman who told her husband she wanted an open marriage and did it for a year and they ended up divorcing. I will post if I can figure out what book it was. I read it a couple years ago and was left thinking she seemed just - empty at the end.


I have read so many posts where one spouse opened the marriage the other reluctantly did. The reluctant one ended up meeting someone else who was also reluctant and wanted monogamy and they both dumped the spouses that forced the issue. Most of those posts were from the spouse that initiated the open marriage got it out of their system and were stunned that the reluctant spouse was completely resentful and had moved on.

It certainly isn't a panacea.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> I know. I feel like a horrible human.


If I were you I would make sure this is about sex and not some sort of self esteem fulfillment that you are expecting the sex to provide for you. Because to be honest that will get old really quick and is probably not really going to fix your problem. I get it that some have a higher sex drive, but in the same respect maybe his lack of desire for you has hurt your self esteem and if you had a normal husband who had a natural desire for you you may never have gotten to the point where now you need to jump every guys bones. Having sex with a lot of strange men may not solve your problems.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

OP, to echo many others, your husband deserves to know how you feel. If you truly have no emotional connection with him or physical attraction, I fear no intervention on his part can restore whatever brought you two together. 

Best to honest with him about your indiscretion and live with the consequences (divorce, co-parenting, separation of property), so each of you can get on with your lives before too much time is lost. 

And please, for the love of God and the very institution of marriage, don't propose an open marriage. It looks bad, will likely hurt and piss off your husband, and has such a small chance of viability, it's far more trouble than it's worth.

Good luck!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

brooklynAnn said:


> Sounds to me you are now in your sexually awakening that most women goes thru during the mid part of life...30ish to 40s. I know when that happened to me I was a sex machine. I thought of sex constantly. I started reading erotica novels...way more porn than romantic. I didn't mind watching porn, I was ready for sex at a wink. I was coming on to my H more and it had nothing to do with emotional connection. I was just hot.


Interesting that this happens to women, most men feel like this through there whole marriage. Often the thought is they are just using their wives for sex. Imagine the wife has been blocking for the first half of the marriage only to expect the husband to now turn on a dime because her desire has changed. I could see a lot of resentment about that. The feeling being, well now you want it but before when I did you didn't care why is your desire more important then mine? 

Marriage is hard.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

there are usually two sides to every story.

I would be happy if my wife came to me and told me she wanted more sex.

But I do not think you would like your H to be in a room with many naked women and cheating on you. 


Hope you tell him that you have already opened the marriage.

And the men that were there have told all their buddies about you and how easy you are. 

You should tell your H before someone else does. Yes he is working hard for his family, and he is not perfect. None of us are perfect. He is not a mind reader. Tell him what is on your mind.

Do not cheat anymore. either file for D or help him to understand the situation. Maybe he feels like the sex could use a boost.

But sex with strangers does not lead to happiness. It leads to stds and divorce and reputation of being easy for any man looking for sex. 

Not good for your family, your career, or your marriage. 

I do love my wife so much less after all the hurt. she is killing it. do not kill any love he has for you. Do tell him about your cheating, your sex drive and how you want to cheat on him.

Good luck to your kids.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

brooklynAnn said:


> Sounds to me you are now in your sexually awakening that most women goes thru during the mid part of life...30ish to 40s. I know when that happened to me I was a sex machine. I thought of sex constantly. I started reading erotica novels...way more porn than romantic. I didn't mind watching porn, I was ready for sex at a wink. I was coming on to my H more and it had nothing to do with emotional connection. I was just hot.


This brings up an interesting situation. I have seen this before where this happens to women but most men feel like this through their whole marriage. Often the thought is they are just using their wives for sex. Imagine the wife has been blocking for the first half of the marriage only to expect the husband to now turn on a dime because her desire has changed. I could see a lot of resentment about that. The feeling being, "well now you want it but before when I did you didn't care, so why is your desire more important then mine?" 

Marriage is hard.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> An open marriage would mean you having lots of sex with other men and him not having lots of sex with other women. I kinda doubt he's going to go for that. Better off not proposing it.
> 
> -I would never demand that he not go explore. I want him to as well!
> 
> ...


-Maybe. First time I"m hearing of this.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Vinnydee said:


> My wife and I made non monogamy work for 44 years and we are finally monogamous now. Take a look at this and learn why monogamy causes problems. https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-20649/why-my-husband-i-sometimes-have-sex-with-other-people.html
> 
> Like you, we are in love but my wife began to feel her bisexual side and I have always been a poly type of guy. Instead of having our marriage go down with the ship, we chose our marriage over monogamy. We did various forms of groups sex, but not too much, and never repeating it so as to avoid developing feelings. Except in one case when it just worked out perfectly for us. We found a girlfriend who was perfect for both of us and who we have known for most of our lives and already loved as if she was family. We found that as a threesome, our life was better and the sex was great. Plus seeing your spouse with someone else sparks a new interest in them. A genetic competition thing I guess. We shared my wife's best friend who I knew even longer than my wife did, for 30 years.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you so much for your response, and the reads! This is all very interesting, and allot of it hits home. Infidelity and sexual unhappiness is SO common, one wonders why marriages were structured for monogamy. I agree with you in that I don't want to cheat within monogamy. 

thank you.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Tex X said:


> I feel sorry for your husband. I think he would be devastated to learn that you were in a naked grope at a strip club with a bunch of strangers. How could he ever trust you again? I wouldn't. Have some respect for yourself, your husband, and your kids. Get all the way in or get all the way out of this marriage.


Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks? 

And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT. 

I have BEEN all in FOR YEARS. But no, my ONE NIGHT is worse then his TEN years!

I wonder, how many of you judging out there could have been in my shoes, and NOT had sex? I KNOW it was wrong, but seriously, drunk, horny and ready to go, and still resisting. What I did what the version of a man going to a strip club. He got rubbed up on by a stranger. So if a guy goes to a strip club, should his wife divorce him immediately? Thats it, right to divorce? I didn't KISS, I didn't do ORAL, I didn't HAVE SEX. I took my top off and watched naked people while drunk.

What a double standard.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

sokillme said:


> This brings up an interesting situation. I have seen this before where this happens to women but most men feel like this through their whole marriage. Often the thought is they are just using their wives for sex. Imagine the wife has been blocking for the first half of the marriage only to expect the husband to now turn on a dime because her desire has changed. I could see a lot of resentment about that. The feeling being, "well now you want it but before when I did you didn't care, so why is your desire more important then mine?"
> 
> Marriage is hard.


I have never turned him down EVER for sex. FYI.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JuliaP said:


> Wow, thank you so much for your response, and the reads! This is all very interesting, and allot of it hits home. Infidelity and sexual unhappiness is SO common, one wonders why marriages were structured for monogamy. I agree with you in that I don't want to cheat within monogamy.
> 
> thank you.


Marriages were structured for monogamy for many reasons.

One is that men usually do not want to raise children that are fathered by other men. Nor do women want their resources to have to go to support children that their husbands have with other women.

Another is that that children do better when they are raised in an intact family.

Yet another is that the fewer sex partners a person has, the less likely they are to contract an STD. And having many sex partners endangers the health of the spouse. Monogamy was used as a way to cut down on the spread of STDs.

And then add to this the fact that when married people have sex with others than their spouse, it’s very likely that they will develop a love interest outside the marriage. This often leads to the cheating spouse leaving their marriage for their affair partner.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Monogamy works because other relationships usually lead to even more jealousy and hurt feelings. It's not easy to deal with the emotional issues which come up when sex is involved. Then if someone begins to feel emotional towards someone they are having sex with, which is actually pretty common, more problems crop up.

It looks alluring from the outside, and it can be fun, but it's even harder to maintain a happy relationship with your special someone with all those other emotions pulling you around. It's not easy at all. 

I suppose some people use it as a salve to cover the wounds of their relationships, and just limp along. We did see a lot of relationships we didn't want to think we were anything like. 

Monogamy is a cakewalk compared to allowing someone else into the relationship. Just make your spouse live up to his potential. Send him to Dominant training school.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Remee81 said:


> Yes please, because anything this person posts is rude, nasty or outright stupid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personal attacks will not be tolerated on the forum. If you have issues with another member's posts, please report them.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

After reading your other posts it seems like you have two problems...1 a failed marriage because of his inability/ willingness to work on the marriage and 2 your sexually awakening. 2 is not going to get better for about 10 more years or so. Now what are you going to do now to fix that... mastebate for immediate relieve, which should help and prevent you to become involved risky behavior. Which would just unleash a bunch of trouble for you. Forget emotional connection for now.

The next big issue is how much do you want to stay married to this man? You seem to be very angry and resentful at this time. Do you have it in you to fight for a marriage that might result in you being right where you are now?

Think about how you want to spend the time during these next 10 years while you are this sexually charged stage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you are describing here goes way beyond a boring sex life. You are talking about a husband who has not been meeting a lot of your needs for years…to the point that it sounds like he’s sort of cruel to you. Here is a link that has an article that you might find interesting.

*The Walk-away Wife Syndrome*

It sound to me like ‘sex prison’ is a symptom of a much bigger problem in your marriage that has existed for a long time. Basically, your husband has not been meeting your needs and really does not seem to care whether or not he is meeting them. He’s happy in the marriage.

You are lacking passion in your life. Sex with strangers is not going to bring you the passion that you crave. 

This can be fixed, but you would have to destabilize your marriage to do that.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your mistaken night out aside, if your marriage is this bad, you need to leave. Once you are single, go for it. 

I found out that fvckbuddies aren't that great after the novelty wears off. Oh and I found this out AFTER I left 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why did you marry a man that you didnt have any physical or emotional connection with? Why did you get married if you want to have affairs? If you can't be faithful to the poor man then free him to find a wife who will appreciate him and be faithful to him.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

JuliaP said:


> This is all very interesting, and allot of it hits home. Infidelity and sexual unhappiness is SO common, one wonders why marriages were structured for monogamy.
> 
> thank you.


The proof is in the pudding. Failure rates for open/swinging marriages are even higher than that for monogamous marriages. 

VinnieD is the exception, not the rule.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


See this is more your problem, I think the sex is a symptom. Notice you say you don't get "ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED?" Opening your marriage is still not going to get you that. I think your problems have nothing to do with sex, the night you had (which was still wrong by the way and you shouldn't minimize it as I am sure if he did it you would be upset, besides two wrongs don't make a right) but I digress the night you had reminded you what it feels like to be desired. It gave you a feeling like emotional intimacy is possible. I really think if you open your marriage and have a lot of sex with strange men just looking to get off you are going to end up more sad. You are certainly not going to be getting what you wrote in this paragraph. Lets be honest you could go to a local sex shop and find a man interested in having sex with you. That isn't going to solve this problem or make you feel loved. 

What you said here needs to be said to your husband, if he is not willing to fix it divorce him.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


Settle down. 

If your husband is this bad, what the hell are you even married to him for?

I will tell you right now, there's no freaking way an open marriage is going to work with the two of you. Only very VERY healthy marriages can survive being open, and even then most can't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Why did you marry a man that you didnt have any physical or emotional connection with? Why did you get married if you want to have affairs? If you can't be faithful to the poor man then free him to find a wife who will appreciate him and be faithful to him.


You might want to read the OP’s other threads so that you understand that she has been married to a long time. Like many people, she married a man who she was in love with. But after marriage, he is basically emotionally absent and even a somewhat of a bully. 

You are divorced. I guess we could ask you same thing. Why did you marry a man if all you wanted to do was divorce him?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

sokillme said:


> See this is more your problem, I think the sex is a symptom. Notice you say you don't get "ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED?" Opening your marriage is still not going to get you that. I think your problems have nothing to do with sex, the night you had (which was still wrong by the way and you shouldn't minimize it as I am sure if he did it you would be upset, besides two wrongs don't make a right) but I digress the night you had reminded you what it feels like to be desired. It gave you a feeling like emotional intimacy is possible. I really think if you open your marriage and have a lot of sex with strange men just looking to get off you are going to end up more sad. You are certainly not going to be getting what you wrote in this paragraph. Lets be honest you could go to a local sex shop and find a man interested in having sex with you. That isn't going to solve this problem or make you feel loved.
> 
> What you said here needs to be said to your husband, if he is not willing to fix it divorce him.


QFT.

Julia, in my opinion this is the real crux of the matter. You've been able to endure a loveless marriage so far because your sex drive was in low gear. Now that it's in high-gear, it's forcing the emotional intimacy issues to the surface.

You can't get sex with other men out of your head not just because of the sex, but because of the fleeting possibility of getting your emotional needs filled as part of the deal. Opening up an already crap marriage won't fix your crap marriage--it will just give you the opportunity and eventual near certainty of finding another person to fill the emotional gaps that your husband is leaving wide open. Open marriages certainly can work for some couples in already strong marriages, but it's one of those things that when tried as a hail-mary to save a marriage (kind of like having kids) usually has the opposite effect.

You'd be better served by laying down a real ultimatum to your husband to fix his ****, or just leave and find someone else. But if you opt for #2, make sure you vet carefully next time.

Also--with regard to your increased drive--as other posters have mentioned, a late-stage drive increase is not uncommon in women, especially around pre and peri-menopause. Hormones will do what they will do. Look up some of @SimplyAmorous posts regarding this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@JuliaP

I’m not a prude about sex. So what I’m saying here is not about you thoughts of seeking passion through sex being icky, or nasty, or whatever. I’m saying this because you are seeking passion. Passion often has little to do with sex. Sure, sex with passion is great… there is not much that is better than that. But true passion comes first from somewhere else. In a marriage, it should come from your relationship with your spouse. But your relationship sucks. I read your past threads. It’s sucked for quite some time now. 

I think you need to destabilize your marriage to try to save it. And then if that does not work, it’s time for you to move on and divorce your husband.

What I mean by destabilize, is that you need to tell him beyond a doubt that you are so unhappy in your marriage that at this point you don’t want to be married to him. That there is one chance to save the marriage and you hope that he will work with you to do this. And if he says no, hand him divorce papers. If that does not get him to wake up do to shock, then you know you need to leave this marriage. 

Seriously, this marriage has been killing you inside for a LONG time.

You have been complaining to your husband for years. But you have never been willing to let him know how unhappy you really are. He’s been happy (or at least happy enough) so he just does not get how unhappy you are and it has been your responsibility to hit him over the head with the proverbial 2x4 and you have not been willing to do this. Instead you have been ‘making nice’ with some grumbling for a long time.

What I suggest is that you read the books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. Do the work that they suggest. Then when you talk to him, you need to tell him that part of your criteria for staying in the marriage is that he has read the two books with you and work through them with you. And that he also must go to counseling. And that there must be true change or you will leave the marriage. Then you can re-evaluate your marriage every 3-6 months to see if it’s going well.

Sometimes, that only thing that will wake up someone like your husband is to finally get them to realize that you are not willing to just stay with them throwing you crumbs.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

BioFury said:


> @EleGirl May I ask, is a ban on SunCMars in the works?


To me @SunCMars seems to be a very intelligent person, with a great ability to draw word pictures in our minds through his skilled written word. I think he is an excellent addition to TAM. He causes us to use our minds to understand his point. I think a lot of people are lazy, or perhaps not smart enough to understand him. I believe those posters can block him if they don't want to read his content. Personally, I try not to miss anything he posts because I find him completely intriguing. My .02


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This provides more information. 

First, as an aside, people's reactions to various levels of infidelity varies a LOT. To some what you did is fine, to others an unacceptable betrayal. I don't know why there is so much variation, but there is, so some people will think that what you did was terrible. (I'm not one of them, but my opinions on this are pretty non-standard).

I think the other relationship issues are the cause of your wanting to go outside of the marriage. Do you think if they were fixed, your interest in sex outside of marriage would go away?

You list a bunch of ways where he seems selfish and unreasonable. What complaints do you think he would have about you (whether or not they are reasonable)?

Has he always behaved like this or did it change over time? Slowly? Suddenly?


I don't think sex outside of marriage is what you want. I think you want to be with a man who loves and respects you. You deserve that in your marriage, and if you can't get it, I think you would be better off leaving, 

Sex outside won't give you what you really want, and will just leave you feeling guilty and more likely to tolerate your husband's bad behavior. 




JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Julia,

I haven't had time to reply to your posts, but I do appreciate your honesty about how you feel. 

I prize the kind of posts you have made on this thread because it gives me insights into how my W might have felt and still feels.

Although in my case my W gets all the affection she needs from me and feels loved, she just never wants sex, so I have the same struggle with wanting to cheat. 

I don't think I would because I would not want to expose my W to HPV which can cause cancer, or any of the other STDs.

Tamat


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Wow, thank you so much for your response, and the reads! This is all very interesting, and allot of it hits home. Infidelity and sexual unhappiness is SO common, one wonders why marriages were structured for monogamy. I agree with you in that I don't want to cheat within monogamy.
> 
> thank you.


Faithfulness in marriage is vital. There is an alternative for those who don't want to be, don't get married. Many of us are more than happy with monogamy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You might want to read the OP’s other threads so that you understand that she has been married to a long time. Like many people, she married a man who she was in love with. But after marriage, he is basically emotionally absent and even a somewhat of a bully.
> 
> You are divorced. I guess we could ask you same thing. Why did you marry a man if all you wanted to do was divorce him?


Me divorcing my husband after 25 years was nothing to do with not loving him or not wanting to be with him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


if a man I was married to did what you did I would take that very seriously, so it's just as serious as far as I am concerned for a man to act that way.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

To the OP - the issues in your marriage go far deeper than sex IMO. If you were to divorce, it wouldn't be over sex, but those deeper issues. 

The dynamic between you and your husband isn't good, clearly and he shouldn't be treating you the way he does. You also shouldn't be going to strip clubs and writhing around naked with anyone - men or women, that IS cheating. 

If my husband were to do that, you can bet your arse I'd be divorcing him.

You need to address the issues in your marriage, and you need to do it with your husband. If he won't then there's really only one option left...you can't make the marriage work on your own.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

He sounds like my spouse.. No communication, no physical/emotional connection. Doesn't want to help himself or our marriage.. claims everything is 'fine'. So I understand you trying to fill the void. Have you thought about separating or even divorce?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Spicy said:


> To me @SunCMars seems to be a very intelligent person, with a great ability to draw word pictures in our minds through his skilled written word. I think he is an excellent addition to TAM. He causes us to use our minds to understand his point. I think a lot of people are lazy, or perhaps not smart enough to understand him. I believe those posters can block him if they don't want to read his content. Personally, I try not to miss anything he posts because I find him completely intriguing. My .02


THIS!

The wall that I choose to surmount just got taller. I can no longer slip, lest I fall to an ignominious Death. I have always subscribed to a non Hypocritical Oath. That too, is a daunting challenge. And one that I, in some measure, large and small......fail at.

I am humbled........

Gawd, a Martian humbled?

The shame, the shame :surprise:

Thanks, friend.... and friends.
........................................................................................................................................
The warm feelings are reciprocated, unseen, but beamed your' way. 

SCM
.......................................................................................................................
PS: One recent lady poster asked me why I could not write something nice.....Why am I so cold and mean?

A knife in the ribs. Justly deserved, I am sure.
A thrust delivered from her aching mind to mine. From her vantage point, her spot on this tiny blue green ball that we sail on................ 
From her tiny hand....she drew the blood of Mars.:frown2:

'Perspective' is not only 'mine' to revel, reveal, sometimes to wallow in. We roll in our own sorrows..


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> HOpe, do you think risking divorce for sex is silly though? This is the fear that holds me back. The fear that if it leads to divorce, it will be because of sex.


Risking divorce for sex is an incomplete sentence. An incomplete picture of your marriage.

Yes, you have been 'sentenced' to life in prison. 
A life spent in prison with a cell mate who looks past you. Looks past his bed mate to some other person.

On bunk beds.

In your cell, you are on the bottom bunk. He is on the top. You can see his form, his mattress has taken the shape of his body.

He cannot see you, nor you, him.

But you know he is there. You can feel his movements, can feel his presence in the dark. Maybe hear him pleasure himself. Himself, with you being alone.

When you got married, the 'sentence' was for life, until Death do you part.

But nowadays, you can get a reprieve, an appeal met, an early out, a parole. Sentence served, early release.
....................................................................................................................................................

Listen carefully...

It is NOT about the lack of sex. It is the lack of intimacy that is driving you to infidelity. Driving you insane.

You want to be held, to be caressed. To feel a "LOVING" man, laying naked in your arms......... laying full length on top of you, kissing your lips and your very soul.

....................................................................................................................................................

You will not be divorcing for sex. To have sex with a man...whoever he, they, may be.* No!*

*It will be for real love and real sharing and real intimacy. Sex without love becomes old, really fast.*

...................................................................................................................................................

Create a long term plan...divorce this wooden man. Find a flesh and blood one. One who has working tear glands, working hands, working imagination, working lust...for you.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

A good statement. 

Yes. It's the love and care she misses.


----------



## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


Clean up one mess before you make another. If your marriage is over then get a divorce. But please don't try to justify your actions by saying "well it was only one night and I was really drunk and he has neglected me for years". That is extremely lame and immature. Grow up.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Time for an honest conversation with your husband.

Be sure to mention what happened in the strip club.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Time for an honest conversation with your husband.
> 
> Be sure to mention what happened in the strip club.


And while there are undoubtedly many deep issues in this marriage, and have been for a while, going back to the initial post...there appears to be a huge internal conflict...lifestyle, house, trips that just may be too big of a price to wantonly give up. Perfect recipe for cake eating.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> And while there are undoubtedly many deep issues in this marriage, and have been for a while, going back to the initial post...there appears to be a huge internal conflict...lifestyle, house, trips that just may be too big of a price to wantonly give up. Perfect recipe for cake eating.


<Keanu from Bill and Ted>Whoa... dude.</Keanu>

It's like you've seen this exact scenario play out in a hundred threads before.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> <Keanu from Bill and Ted>Whoa... dude.</Keanu>
> 
> It's like you've seen this exact scenario play out in a hundred threads before.


TAM isn't the only place where we get to see the script. I think they've made a Lifetime movie or ten about it too...

The thing is, it is all so predictable because the honorable thing to do would be to make the hard choice...keep marriage and vows, no matter how difficult or personally distasteful in exchange for the perceived benefits, OR give up the difficult and distasteful marriage, as well as the perceived benefits. It's a tough choice for some people, but there is no way to honorably have it both ways. Unfortunately, for some, they tip their hand a bit too early, and reveal just how much personal integrity they actually have.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

BioFury said:


> His posts aren't unpopular, they're nonsensical. What the hell is he even saying? I have no idea. Might as well be spam.


You're allowed to skip over them whenever you wish to.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> THIS!
> 
> 
> Thanks, friend.... and friends.
> ...


I enjoy your posts because I was a big Star Trek TNG fan and your posts remind me of the episode of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.  Following is a quick example of their speaking style:

"Temba, his arms open."
"Temba, at rest."


----------



## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Wow.. so many of you have taken the time to respond, and even if I haven't enjoyed some of what was said, everything seemed to have a kernel of truth in it. 

After reading all the posts and thinking, I realize:

I wasn't angry at my husband until I posted here. What I thought was just a crazy biological need, turned out to be a long held dissatisfaction with my marriage. The biological need is of course there, but the crappy marriage is whats making me burst at the seams in situations I normally can control.

My parents and my husbands parents all had horrible marriages, complete with abuse, full blown affairs, illegitimate children, lies, etc. YOU name it. With my parents, my mom stuck throughout it all with my father. Through his occasional slaps in the face, affairs, etc. They are still together to this day, and while all that has passed, decades ago, I believe I have absorbed much of what I saw. 

I saw my mom stick through so much suffering, that me divorcing for 'no emotional connection' seems so trivial and pointless. My mind can't excuse tearing apart the family for 'my happiness'. My soul and body, however, are screaming at me to change. Maybe if my mom would have grown up in a time where divorce wasn't so taboo, she would've left.

Called a therapist today and made an appointment for next week. I need to speak with a professional to clearly figure out EXACTLY what I need, so that I can relay it in a way my husband will understand. If he isn't willing to change, then I have a decision to make, but it isn't fair to him or to myself to live under a facade of happiness, when I am boiling inside.

Thank you to all who took the time to answer!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

JuliaP said:


> Wow.. so many of you have taken the time to respond, and even if I haven't enjoyed some of what was said, everything seemed to have a kernel of truth in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A MUCH better response! Good job. Keep us posted. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JuliaP said:


> Wow.. so many of you have taken the time to respond, and even if I haven't enjoyed some of what was said, everything seemed to have a kernel of truth in it.
> 
> After reading all the posts and thinking, I realize:
> 
> ...


I'm glad to see this response. It sounds like this was your wake-up call.

I still highly suggest that you read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" Links in my signature block below.) From what you say, you and your husband have no good examples of what a healthy marriage looks like. The purpose of the books is to teach both of you how to restructure your marriage into a good, healthy marriage.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

BioFury said:


> His posts aren't unpopular, they're nonsensical. What the hell is he even saying? I have no idea. Might as well be spam.


Haha! Are you trying to provide support for @Spicy's point? "He causes us to use our minds to understand his point. I think a lot of people are lazy, or perhaps not smart enough to understand him."

Think of it as poetry. Some people are able to read it and understand a deeper meaning,while others are left scratching their heads.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> I enjoy your posts because I was a big Star Trek TNG fan and your posts remind me of the episode of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.  Following is a quick example of their speaking style:
> 
> "Temba, his arms open."
> "Temba, at rest."


"when the walls feel." :grin2:


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Wow.. so many of you have taken the time to respond, and even if I haven't enjoyed some of what was said, everything seemed to have a kernel of truth in it.
> 
> After reading all the posts and thinking, I realize:
> 
> ...


This is a great update OP.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Good. Taking control.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

JuliaP said:


> Wow.. so many of you have taken the time to respond, and even if I haven't enjoyed some of what was said, everything seemed to have a kernel of truth in it.
> 
> After reading all the posts and thinking, I realize:
> 
> ...


JuliaP at Tanagra

MrJuliaP at Tanagra

JuliaP and MrJuliaP at Tanagra

JuliaP and MrJuliaP on the ocean.

Communication can be quite difficult, especially when the subject is so important but it is the ONLY way to resolve issues reasonably and rationally.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

JuliaP said:


> What should I do???


Print this out, hand it to your husband, and wait to see what he says and does.


----------



## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


Yes it is.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Abc123wife said:


> Haha! Are you trying to provide support for @Spicy's point? "He causes us to use our minds to understand his point. I think a lot of people are lazy, or perhaps not smart enough to understand him."
> 
> Think of it as poetry. Some people are able to read it and understand a deeper meaning,while others are left scratching their heads.



Though my feet be clay.

The majority form...... now be cast in stone.

I can never leave.

The healing scab has spread to my friends.

To pull myself loose would scar their scaffolding, their frames of mind.

Our own selves, a codependency of hungry and famished travelers, searching for a morsel of salty, salient wisdom, quickened with acumen and acerbic humor.

Cast in stone, held tight by Synchronicity, a common thread of living on the same spool, the same lot number in this Incarnation.

For @Andy1001


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

*Called a therapist today and made an appointment for next week. I need to speak with a professional to clearly figure out EXACTLY what I need, so that I can relay it in a way my husband will understand*. If he isn't willing to change, then I have a decision to make, but it isn't fair to him or to myself to live under a facade of happiness, when I am boiling inside.

[/QUOTE]

I don't judge you. I have fantasized about doing worse than whatever happened in the club. 

I think many people would call you lucky/blessed for this sexual awakening. It's totally normal for you to have these thoughts if your needs aren't being met. I think it's a damn shame that your husbo would rather grow manboobs and yank it to porn than connect with you--such a damn waste. 

I'm in a sexless 8-yr marriage right now. I feel for you. The pain is real and constant and Im so sorry that you are hurting.

Very mature move to seek counseling and lay everything out (figuratively)for your husband. 

I hope that you will give us all updates. 

Oh, and I've been on the other side of the f*ck eyes look--not fair at all and the poor fellows may already have blue balls, lol. Gotta take it easy on us.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NickTheChemist said:


> *Called a therapist today and made an appointment for next week. I need to speak with a professional to clearly figure out EXACTLY what I need, so that I can relay it in a way my husband will understand*. If he isn't willing to change, then I have a decision to make, but it isn't fair to him or to myself to live under a facade of happiness, when I am boiling inside.





> * by NicktheChemist* I don't judge you. I have fantasized about doing worse than whatever happened in the club.
> 
> I think many people would call you lucky/blessed for this sexual awakening. It's totally normal for you to have these thoughts if your needs aren't being met. I think it's a damn shame that your husbo would rather grow manboobs and yank it to porn than connect with you--such a damn waste.
> 
> ...


A mere chemist thou art. 

A mere chemist not an Alchemist.

Female Alkanes are too intricate to bond. They need the acid of a sacrificial horny toad. The stay at home toad dies in the end....of a broken heart. His donated acid gives the bold suitor POSOM the chemistry needed to hold her close and for her to become a breasted three dimensional Heteropolymer. 

This toad prince is the catalyst for her pupal transformation into a Butterfly. So pretty is she.
.........................................................................................................................................................

In marriage:

For one-half of an equation to change, the other did first. It is the power of the "equal" sign. The sign that reckons all rights, all wrongs.

For a cheater to become, another had to be the catalyst. For right, or no right. A right hook to the betrayed!

The "e" in equal is NOT as in excuse. Or in excused....is not equal to pardoned. Pardon my betrayal, Nay...not.

A mers conclusion you shall not find. No polymer shall precipitate


----------



## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@JuliaP In your first post:


> "I spend 100% of the time fantasizing about the waiter last night, coworker, etc. Several years back when this problem arose, I dove into counseling, books, advice podcasts, etc, you name it- to figure out how to survive this issue, for the sake of my kids. I learned that every marriage has a "price of admission", and for mine, it's ZERO emotional connection and sexual attraction. I weighed out the good- no cheating from him (that I know of), no abuse, very loyal, good person, good father, no addictions, etc."


Then a later post, you refer to him as a narcissist and a manipulator, which are not good traits... but its also a bit in conflict with your first post in some ways. Seems you have inner conflicts, you see the good and the bad that is your husband. IMHO, I think your brain wiring is switching to cheating mode, justifications for future actions. You are one drink too many from crossing the big line.

As suggested, going open marriage is an option. But I agree, its not going to actually help you... Open marriages that work, usually have a much more solid foundation. You pretty much have nothing with your husband. Oh, and yes - you can easily project "I want to be laid" to guys quite easily... the look in your eyes, your body language.

Now something about us GUYS is that we have different needs than women, if he really NEEDS to "one-up you" - that is childish and insulting. When my wife does well in her job or project or something creative, I give her support. Personally, I think its a turn-on when she does something very good. Back to GUYS BRAINS. We tend to NOT see warning signs of our wives. If you really been trying to get him to marriage counseling, books, etc - and he's been blowing you off. He's not taking you seriously, worse than typical. But even I myself - ignored some of the warning signs from my wife which did result in her cheating but we had other problems that we made / make efforts to communicate much more today than before. I also read books on co-dependency.

So, I and our therapist said her mistake was that she really NEEDED to grab my attention to listen to her. Today, when something is off or she is having a bad day - I ask what is wrong and set down to listen to her. Still, a work in progress thing. And this goes both ways. Like even when I am feeling DOWN, she will ask - even if it has nothing to do with her, by letting her know it doesn't - clears mis-communications. I like movies more than my wife, but we go together sometimes. We go out as a couple to social events, clubs, etc.

So... its time for you to kick your husband in the balls to get his attention. I agree with some here... HE needs to do HIS PART to save his marriage (including going to the gym) - but also DO NOT CHEAT!! You lose respect for yourself and cause much more harm than going your separate ways. 

Here is what I recommend, work it into a way that works for you and also his reaction and choices will come into play.

1 - Choose a time you are ready to make him listen. Lets say its 9pm and the kids are asleep. He's on his computer or watching a TV show.
Give him a piece of paper, a note - and leave. It says "Come to our bedroom (or other room, TV/electronics off) and have an important talk, to save our marriage. If you don't want to talk *NOW*, then I know that our marriage is not worth it to you."

2 - If he shows up. be ready to talk and discuss what you want from him and what he wants from you. No electronics, no phones, to tablets to distract. Tell him that your phone is in the kitchen, he can put his there too. You don't want FB notifications going off every 5 minutes.

3 - Does he want to stay married? Does he love you? Does he desire you? (If he says YES to all 3 go to #4). If NO to 1 or more, then you both need to plan on a mutual separation. You can both stay in the same household. But likely one moves into a guest room. Sex is like off the table... as you both will plan for divorce. Discuss rules for separation such as "date others, but don't bring them into the house to meet the kids / have sex". finances, etc.

4 - *(he wants to save the marriage)* you need to tell him that He has to make an effort to save the marriage. And you are willing to do the same. YOU don't put it all on him. You've already started down the path of cheating. YOU get points for asking for help NOW.

What is requires (its a start, but add whatever you want. make a list to go over with him. If he SAYS NO to your list, then its not good)
- Marriage counseling (MC). You will locate an MC and setup an appointment. He will go to them with you. It is common that a person like your husband will want to stop going after 1-3 sessions. If they happens... be done with him.
- Books... buy them on AMAZON, 2-day shipment. Maybe buy two copies of some of them. Or you read one while he reads another. Like "his needs, her needs".
- He needs to be outgoing... You go to his thing, he goes to yours.
- try different sex
- He goes to the gym. My pecks are bigger than my wife's breasts too. pretty much no matter if I am over-weight or not. I try to hit the gym 3~5 times a week. But only getting 1-2 a week 
- YOU both go out on date-night, together. Just the two of you... at least twice a month.

On your part. Let him know you are not getting your needs met. Emotionally and sexually. That you are thinking of sex with other men. That you haven't had any forms of sex with at this time. But you are not going to continue living this way if he doesn't do his part. Personally, leave out the "nude with guys" thing - if its not going to help. BTW: I like going to strip clubs with my wife more so than without. But we've only done it a few times since married. If you want, you can throw in "open marriage is an option, but I don't think it's a good option in the end". Get his reaction. For all you know, he loves the idea. again, if your marriage is has problems, Open marriage will end up causing you two to divorce.

Let him know that you will both do an assessment of progress of the both of you every 3 or 6 months. Him improving his time with you, and not playing manipulation games with you. And on your part, the desire to have sex with other men - getting less. So if he agrees, and in 6 months you STILL want to have sex with other men and not your husband... well, then time to move into separation mode and file for divorce. Be nice about it... and have sex with whoever you want.

When you do your out of town biz and you are separated/divorcing - go get laid. It happens A LOT. You know how easy it is. You tried. Either you or him are not able to save the marriage. It takes two of you to do it.

Good luck.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


sounds horrible.

but you made the decisions to stay for whatever reason. sounds like your done then do the right thing and tell him then file for divorce.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> JuliaP at Tanagra
> 
> MrJuliaP at Tanagra
> 
> ...


I remember that episode LOL


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Therapy help you sort out your priorities and come up with a game plan that will best serve your sanity and well being.

Therapy may also help you find the words and courage to get his attention and explain your needs to him so that he is at least informed and aware of your needs and intentions.

Therapy will not however change his core character or being. 

Nor will it change your core character or being.

Therapy will not turn him into a passionate, hot stud. It will not give him abz or gunz. It will not turn him into a passionate soap opera character that gazes deeply into your eyes and pledge his undying love and devotion.

And it won't turn you into a Madonna that is dedicated to only home and family devotions with no karnal desires or needs of her own.

It won't change who and what you both are. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. But realize what it is and what it isn't.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

JuliaP said:


> I have zero to little attraction to my husband, and it has been that way for years.





JuliaP said:


> It's been 13 years of monogamy sex prison and I don't know what to do.


I'm still trying to figure out your deal. I get that you are not attracted to your husband at all. So why is this a monogamy issue? 

If you found some stud to bend you over whenever you pleased would you STILL be upset about being monogamous with him too?

I guess I'm just trying to understand whether you have some insatiable urge to sloot around no matter what guy your with. 

Or your just feeling this way because your stuck with your husband. Out of curiosity, before you met hubby, did you sleep around a lot?



Edit: I did a little more research. You have been complaining about this guy for *SIX YEARS*. The same story over and over again.

He wouldn't say "ILY" or even throw you a hug back then and nothing has changed. It's now culminated into you flashing your tits at men.

You need to STOP being a coward and FILE FOR DIVORCE. You are so scared about losing your "comfy setup" that you are going mad.

He's NOT going to change. You are NEVER going to feel loved with him. It only a matter of time before you justify banging some dude.

WALK AWAY and do both of yourselves a favor. There's plenty of affection men out there. Your kids want a happy mom not a cheating one.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Also I want to address the open marriage aspect of this issue.

I have been involve in the swinging lifestyle for over 10 years. I am mostly an armchair swinger and Monday-morning quarterback but we were highly active in the lifestyle for about half a dozen years.

Swinging/open marriage et all are not therapy, it does NOT save marriages and it does not prevent infidelity.

For couples with excellent communication, strong respect and trust and an active and satisfying sex life, swinging can be a lot of fun, can make the sexuality sizzlingly hot and it can be a fun and bonding coexperience.

But you have none of that listed above in your marriage currently.

Swinging/open marriage in your case might make living as roommates more tolerable while you are out partying it up with other dudes temporarily.

But in a short period of time, you would fall for one of the other men and if one of the OM were to make you an offer for full time, you would pack your bags and walk out within days. 

So all it would really accomplish would be prolonging the roommate arrangement longer until you found the next one anyway. 

If you needed to hold on to the legal marriage and roommate accord until the kids were a certain age or until a certain educational or financial goal was met, you could consider it, but other than prolonging your current situation it won't fix anything.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

sokillme said:


> "when the walls feel." :grin2:


I just KNEW that I wasn't the only one here.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Though my feet be clay.
> 
> The majority form...... now be cast in stone.
> 
> ...


This reminds me of the W.B. Yeats poem "To a child dancing in the wind".


----------



## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

[/QUOTE]
I don't judge you. I have fantasized about doing worse than whatever happened in the club. 

I think many people would call you lucky/blessed for this sexual awakening. It's totally normal for you to have these thoughts if your needs aren't being met. I think it's a damn shame that your husbo would rather grow manboobs and yank it to porn than connect with you--such a damn waste. 

I'm in a sexless 8-yr marriage right now. I feel for you. The pain is real and constant and Im so sorry that you are hurting.

Very mature move to seek counseling and lay everything out (figuratively)for your husband. 

I hope that you will give us all updates. 

Oh, and I've been on the other side of the f*ck eyes look--not fair at all and the poor fellows may already have blue balls, lol. Gotta take it easy on us.[/QUOTE]

Thanks YOU! I appreciate the non-judgement. REALLY!!

And I will wear sunglasses from now on if I leave the house all charged up! I've left a wake of blue balls across my state! lol...
>


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

A couple of thoughts stand out from your post:

1. You've been married 13 years. Desire wanes in LTR. It's common. But you deserve to have your needs met by your husband. Figure out what you need- more mystery, surprise, adventure? Then talk to your husband. See what he can do to shake things up. Explore new situations, ideas, options together (it does not have to mean an open marriage. It could include BDSM, or other new, exciting things together).

2. Stop hitting on married men. It's hurtful to their wives. I know you know this, but it deserves repeating. It's a horrible thing to do to another woman and her family, and it isn't the way to get your needs met, which sound like they include more than just sex.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> What you are describing here goes way beyond a boring sex life. You are talking about a husband who has not been meeting a lot of your needs for years…to the point that it sounds like he’s sort of cruel to you. Here is a link that has an article that you might find interesting.
> 
> *The Walk-away Wife Syndrome*
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> Stop hitting on married men. It's hurtful to their wives. I know you know this, but it deserves repeating. It's a horrible thing to do to another woman


Or your husband or yourself.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> A couple of thoughts stand out from your post:
> 
> 1. You've been married 13 years. Desire wanes in LTR. It's common. But you deserve to have your needs met by your husband. Figure out what you need- more mystery, surprise, adventure? Then talk to your husband. See what he can do to shake things up. Explore new situations, ideas, options together (it does not have to mean an open marriage. It could include BDSM, or other new, exciting things together).
> 
> 2. Stop hitting on married men. It's hurtful to their wives. I know you know this, but it deserves repeating. It's a horrible thing to do to another woman and her family, and it isn't the way to get your needs met, which sound like they include more than just sex.


I so agree with this, I can't stand it when people flirt(and more) with other people's spouses, there is NO excuse EVER. 
If you must go away on work conferences etc, then go to your room after a meal and stay there. Or go for a walk alone. Meeting other married people in a bar and drinking alcohol is asking for trouble. Where are your boundaries?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I don't judge you. I have fantasized about doing worse than whatever happened in the club. 

I think many people would call you lucky/blessed for this sexual awakening. It's totally normal for you to have these thoughts if your needs aren't being met. I think it's a damn shame that your husbo would rather grow manboobs and yank it to porn than connect with you--such a damn waste. 

I'm in a sexless 8-yr marriage right now. I feel for you. The pain is real and constant and Im so sorry that you are hurting.

Very mature move to seek counseling and lay everything out (figuratively)for your husband. 

I hope that you will give us all updates. 

Oh, and I've been on the other side of the f*ck eyes look--not fair at all and the poor fellows may already have blue balls, lol. Gotta take it easy on us.[/QUOTE]

Thanks YOU! I appreciate the non-judgement. REALLY!!

And I will wear sunglasses from now on if I leave the house all charged up! I've left a wake of blue balls across my state! lol...
>[/QUOTE]

There is an error in your quote... remove the / in the first [/QUOTE] to fix the message.

Also, my earlier advice is to be non-judgmental. Your husband has issues. If what BetrayedDad said is true - that you have been complaining for years and your husband hasn't done squat. Well, its AMAZING you lasted this long. Still don't cheat. Give him the final LAST chance - face to face, clear as day that THE MARRIAGE will break if he doesn't do anything. You owe the kids the one last "I really tried." If he doesn't care to make an effort after that talk. Start your separation and let him know that he is free to date and have sex with others. 

Good luck!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

TaDor said:


> I don't judge you. I have fantasized about doing worse than whatever happened in the club.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks YOU! I appreciate the non-judgement. REALLY!!



And I will wear sunglasses from now on if I leave the house all charged up! I've left a wake of blue balls across my state! lol...

>[/QUOTE]



There is an error in your quote... remove the / in the first [/QUOTE] to fix the message.



Also, my earlier advice is to be non-judgmental. Your husband has issues. If what BetrayedDad said is true - that you have been complaining for years and your husband hasn't done squat. Well, its AMAZING you lasted this long. Still don't cheat. Give him the final LAST chance - face to face, clear as day that THE MARRIAGE will break if he doesn't do anything. You owe the kids the one last "I really tried." If he doesn't care to make an effort after that talk. Start your separation and let him know that he is free to date and have sex with others. 



Good luck![/QUOTE]



yes...Yes...YES YES YES! YEEESSSS!

This exactly. Thanks for the release 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED? One "how the **** are you today?" Or when something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME? Or how about the fact that I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine? How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see? He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE. It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. He is the worlds greatest manipulator, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


 Do him a favor and get divorced.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

sokillme said:


> See this is more your problem, I think the sex is a symptom. Notice you say you don't get "ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED?" Opening your marriage is still not going to get you that. I think your problems have nothing to do with sex, the night you had (which was still wrong by the way and you shouldn't minimize it as I am sure if he did it you would be upset, besides two wrongs don't make a right) but I digress the night you had reminded you what it feels like to be desired. It gave you a feeling like emotional intimacy is possible. I really think if you open your marriage and have a lot of sex with strange men just looking to get off you are going to end up more sad. You are certainly not going to be getting what you wrote in this paragraph. Lets be honest you could go to a local sex shop and find a man interested in having sex with you. That isn't going to solve this problem or make you feel loved.
> 
> What you said here needs to be said to your husband, if he is not willing to fix it divorce him.


 She's confusing short term lust and fantasy with emotional connection, and think that they will give her that connection and happiness, when in actuality they are the antipode of emotional connection.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

steve1000 said:


> i just knew that i wasn't the only one here.


🖖


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

JuliaP said:


> Right, you feel sorry for him because of ONE CRAZY NIGHT I had. What about the TEN YEARS of him ignoring my needs? Of me being the ONLY ONE trying counseling, all the damn marriage books, seminars, podcasts, group therapies, YOU NAME IT- all to *(1) try and get ONE SHRED of emotionally intimacy? ONE TINY SHRED?* One "how the **** are you today?" Or when *(2) something good happens in my life, he doesn't ONE UP ME?* Or how about the fact that *(3) I stay fit, primp, and healthy for him, so he has something good to screw, while he can grow a pair of boobs bigger than mine?* *(4) How about we NEVER see a movie I want to see?* *(5) He says "GO ALONE". Every event I'm invited to with couples, I go ALONE.* It's almost a joke, my friends call him my phantom husband. How often do I even ask for these things? Once a month maybe? Every two weeks?
> 
> And how about the fact that *(6) we CANNOT HAVE CONVERSATION because EVERYTHING is always my fault*. Always. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. *(7) He is the worlds greatest manipulator*, and flip every conversation around to be MY FAULT.
> 
> ...


Not reading past this point...boom...looks like the crux of the problem right here. Do you REALLY think you're not wired for monogomy or is it simply you being repulsed by your H over what is becoming more of a laundry list of complaints that he fails to address? ETA, your H sounds like a dildo.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> ETA, your H sounds like a dildo.


At least a dildo is hard when you want it to be and has an excuse for ignoring you the rest of the time.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

JuliaP,

you have 4 choices

1. do nothing and just spend the rest of your life in misery until he or you die first. 
2. Get a divorce and move on with your life, yeah you will have to give up the nice things you are used too but at least you will own your life and your direction...and become sexual cougar if you want
3. Ask for an open relationship and if he says no then look at the other options
4. Cheat and live with the consequences and the guilt....but since you seem to have past the first line in the sand and you have no guilt then proceed forward


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Update? How is everything going for you now?

What did the therapist say about your situation?


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## Real talk (Apr 13, 2017)

This seems like an instance of a woman coercing a beta man into marriage as she nears a certain age, only to become bored with him after a few years. Yearning to experience the men she couldn't get to commit in her value years. 

I'm sorry but this behavior doesn't need coddling. It's manipulative and it always sooner or later entails demonizing the man in order for the woman to validate her unfaithful thoughts. You don't value or respect your husband so no counseling or therapy will change that.that. You're not in a sex prison, your husband is in a prison we call modern marriage.


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