# Should this be strike 3?



## Dday

I posted my story after dday just about 2 years ago. I decided to try for R and stayed with my WW. It has not been easy and there have been several ups and downs. 

I had a bad night a few weeks ago while we were out asking about the affair which happened 2 years ago and asking questions which were answered a million times. This got her very upset and it seemed she finally had enough of my insecurities which she caused. I admittedly have been very untrusting and won't let my guard down. It is not often but when I get triggered for some reason I respond by asking questions for any detail that may not make 100% sense and try to catch her in a lie. The next 2 weeks were pretty bad with little communication. We did talk last week and we made some progress with what we both needed to make this work. 

Fast forward to this last Friday, my wife works out and teaches kickboxing classes and often on Fridays they go out for a couple drinks. I have been there for a few of the happy hours and it is mostly women or married couples except 1 guy. Of course he is on my radar and always ask when he is there. 

She told me she was going for a couple drinks and she wouldn't be out late. So as midnight approaches I am getting pissed and she stops answering texts and phone calls. I have her on find my iPhone and I track her going to single guys house after the bar closes at 2:30 am. Once again not answering the phone and she even turns it off. No doubt in my mind now that something wrong is happening. 

I end up pulling up the phone bill and see they have had conversations over the last 2 weeks about 4 times. 

I debated waking the kids up and taking a ride over there but instead called the single guy.... He picked up and I told him to tell my wife to get home. He asked who this was and I simply hung up. 

About 10 minutes later he drops her off and wanted to explain that nothing was going on, I pushed him out of my house before he could really talk. 

I will post about her reaction and further details later


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## BurningHeart

YES- Once a cheater, always a cheater. It's like when a dog bites, they usually have to be put down because they are certain to do it again. The fact that she ignored your attempted responses and then conveniently shows up, after your phone call spells GUILTY. I'm sure her reaction will be anger, that is everyone's, when they get busted. Sorry, I've been there.


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## Wolf1974

Should have been a one and done with the original affair. You are only now coming to the truth as many realize and has very few exceptions....


Cheaters cheat. That's what they do over and over again. People with low character aren't going to change. You need to find a better wife.

Sorry


Good luck....


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## imjustwatching

your ok with your wife going to bars with other men and going to their houses after 2:30 while you set their taking care of the kids ? even after she cheated come on man..


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## Hicks

My wife hasn't cheated and I would probably divorce her if she went on a date and back to the apartment of a single guy while I was home with the kids.


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## michzz

If you actually traced her phone to the other man's house and then she shut it off?

you need to part ways, she is cheating still/again.

Not all cheaters do this, but your wife does.

I'm sorry for your pain, but time to leave her.

she is too in your face with her infidelity.


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## it-guy

I cannot think of any reasonable excuse for her going to his house. None at all. I agree with everyone above.

I do have to say this. And I'm sorry, its just how it is. You may have been driving her crazy and she did this to escape from the marriage. This is not your fault. I could tell you to calm down all day long, but in reality, I completely understand how you feel, and why you feel that way. It just is what it is.


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## GusPolinski




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## Lostinthought61

your a grown man you should know the answer to that question...


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## NoChoice

OP,
There are two types of cheaters. One's who realize the grave error they made and those who do not. R is possible with the former and impossible with the latter. Your WW is in the latter category unfortunately for you. The fact that she is leaving you home with the kids to have a few drinks after class is evidence enough without the OM. Her priorities do not rank you or your family near the top. I regret saying so but yes, strike three, she's out.


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## harrybrown

Yes, this is strike three. 

She is out.


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## cdbaker

Eh, I definitely do not ascribe to the idea of "once a cheater, always a cheater." Certainly that is true a lot of the time, but I think every situation is unique and should be treated that way.

Aside from this incident with your wife going to the guy/student's house, I would ask if you have made the effort to truly forgive your wife for the past affair, assuming she did everything she could to help you process through it and move past it? Ultimately, it's in YOUR best interest to find forgiveness and move past it. Lingering guilt/pain hurts YOU the most, not her. Reaching that point also means no longer digging up the past and trying to rehash it, it means moving on. If you've had a habit of bringing it back up and going through the same questions "millions of times" as you say, it will only damage your trust building with your wife, and lead her to question whether or not you'll ever be able to move past it, if the marriage is a lost cause.

As far as this latest episode... yeah that all sounds pretty bad. Even assuming that nothing fishy happened between them, that she has some form of legitimately innocent justification (that none of us can think of at the moment), she still has to know how wrong that would be and how much of a trigger that would be for you. Honestly I think that would be bad enough for a wife who hasn't cheated before, but it's much worse with that past history involved. She should know better.

Do let us know how it went from there. Her reaction to being "busted" could be very telling.


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## it-guy

I don't think this counts as being busted. She did this on purpose and did not care what he thought about it. She basically did this right in front of him. Cutting off her phone and all......


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## lordmayhem

From your original thread:



Dday said:


> I understand that she is a serial cheater and I don't feel safe that she will never do this again. How could you really?


And she STILL goes on GNOs? Seriously? WTF? Looks like she did exactly what serial cheaters do. Act remorseful until the next affair.

False remorse = False R.

This could possibly be OM#3. Are you going to take her back after she pretends to be remorseful again?


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## lordmayhem

it-guy said:


> I don't think this counts as being busted. She did this on purpose and did not care what he thought about it. She basically did this right in front of him. Cutting off her phone and all......


Almost rubbing it in his face. 
Less than 2 years out from affair with OM#2
Knows she shouldn't be doing GNOs, but she goes all the time anyway
Knows of DDays need to know where she is, but she shuts off phone and goes to single guy's house anyway.

Its no wonder DDay nver healed, she continued her behavior all this time. 

So Dday, how long did her "remorseful" behavior last? A month or two?


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## Clay2013

DDay should be Divorce Day. 

I am sorry your going through this but the longer you let her play games with you she will continue to do it. I would file and just focus on the kids and yourself. 

My xW cheated on me over the course of 10 years. Leaving her was the best thing I ever did.

Clay


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## KingwoodKev

3 strikes are cool in baseball and with felons but not those you trust. I live by what I was taught in the Marines:

Everybody deserves a second chance, nobody deserves a third.


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## lordmayhem

cdbaker said:


> Do let us know how it went from there. Her reaction to being "busted" could be very telling.


Because the poor guy isn't doing well in her kickboxing class, and her professional work ethic will not allow her to have one of her students fail. So she took it on herself to go to his place, after a night of drinking and clubbing, and give him remedial one-on-one instruction at his place at 2:30 in the morning. After all, that is an appropriate place and time for that type of instruction.


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## Dday

Ok.... Exactly what I expected to hear from most of you, and exactly what I was thinking before she got home. 

Yes the fact that she shut the phone off and that she's out until 4:00am led me to conclude that she is up to her deceivious cheating ways again. What through me off was the single guy, I know him, not that well but we have been together in groups several times and have had a few conversations. He walked her right to the door and he looked completely innocent and harmless. 

She of course denied anything happened and they were just friends blah blah blah. Nothing really accomplished that night except I got her phone and read messages emails and the call logs. 



Nothing was deleted, no phone calls to him were deleted which I checked against the phone bill, text messages were there and look innocent and friendly. Nothing in email or Internet search history to raise any more flags. 

The next morning I have her text him and again no signs of anything going on. My wife left for the store at some point and I called the single guy to feel him out. He understands how bad it looked but swore nothing would happen like that. 

My wife's story and his match up identically and now I'm stuck wondering what if I never called. What if I fell asleep and didn't look up find my iPhone. I think I may of stopped an EA or PA but I'm about 98% sure nothing happened YET. 


Trust me, I know what levels she went to last time and how she hid it for so long. That was brought up, her answer was that she will leave before she ever puts me through that again. 

I wish everything was so black and white as many of you make it out to be... And maybe it should be. But with 3 other lives to consider I am willing to give every opportunity to make this marriage work. No doubt what happened on Friday night is wrong, she admits that. 

3 weeks ago I did not think she was into this marriage at all and was just staying for the kids. Today after all this that has changed and issues are being worked through.


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## lordmayhem

Of course their stories matched....duh.

Yeah, what if you fell asleep? You're falling for the typical cheater line yet again, even after you've been cheated on twice now.










And only NOW does she admit that what she did was wrong? Seriously? Doesn't that show you where her head is at?










Good luck with your R.


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## Dday

cdbaker said:


> Eh, I definitely do not ascribe to the idea of "once a cheater, always a cheater." Certainly that is true a lot of the time, but I think every situation is unique and should be treated that way.
> 
> Aside from this incident with your wife going to the guy/student's house, I would ask if you have made the effort to truly forgive your wife for the past affair, assuming she did everything she could to help you process through it and move past it? Ultimately, it's in YOUR best interest to find forgiveness and move past it. Lingering guilt/pain hurts YOU the most, not her. Reaching that point also means no longer digging up the past and trying to rehash it, it means moving on. If you've had a habit of bringing it back up and going through the same questions "millions of times" as you say, it will only damage your trust building with your wife, and lead her to question whether or not you'll ever be able to move past it, if the marriage is a lost cause.
> 
> As far as this latest episode... yeah that all sounds pretty bad. Even assuming that nothing fishy happened between them, that she has some form of legitimately innocent justification (that none of us can think of at the moment), she still has to know how wrong that would be and how much of a trigger that would be for you. Honestly I think that would be bad enough for a wife who hasn't cheated before, but it's much worse with that past history involved. She should know better.
> 
> Do let us know how it went from there. Her reaction to being "busted" could be very telling.


I have tried to forgive, I think she has tried to assist in that process. It just happens from time to time where I lose control and need to know more. It's like the first 16 years of our relationship has been a lie. What else don't I know? What about the time you came to this bar? Little details I may have questioned in the past now come back with me thinking she has slept with every guy she has ever talked to. I don't really believe all this but I need to ask for some reason to be assured. That is driving her nuts, she understands why I do it, she doesn't know why I want to live through it everyday though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Dday said:


> I have tried to forgive, I think she has tried to assist in that process. It just happens from time to time where I lose control and need to know more. It's like the first 16 years of our relationship has been a lie. What else don't I know? What about the time you came to this bar? Little details I may have questioned in the past now come back with me thinking she has slept with every guy she has ever talked to. I don't really believe all this but I need to ask for some reason to be assured. That is driving her nuts, she understands why I do it, she doesn't know why I want to live through it everyday though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DNA test your kids in front of her maybe she will get the message then who knows.


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## KingwoodKev

Dday said:


> Ok.... Exactly what I expected to hear from most of you, and exactly what I was thinking before she got home.
> 
> Yes the fact that she shut the phone off and that she's out until 4:00am led me to conclude that she is up to her deceivious cheating ways again. What through me off was the single guy, I know him, not that well but we have been together in groups several times and have had a few conversations. He walked her right to the door and he looked completely innocent and harmless.
> 
> She of course denied anything happened and they were just friends blah blah blah. Nothing really accomplished that night except I got her phone and read messages emails and the call logs.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing was deleted, no phone calls to him were deleted which I checked against the phone bill, text messages were there and look innocent and friendly. Nothing in email or Internet search history to raise any more flags.
> 
> The next morning I have her text him and again no signs of anything going on. My wife left for the store at some point and I called the single guy to feel him out. He understands how bad it looked but swore nothing would happen like that.
> 
> My wife's story and his match up identically and now I'm stuck wondering what if I never called. What if I fell asleep and didn't look up find my iPhone. I think I may of stopped an EA or PA but I'm about 98% sure nothing happened YET.
> 
> 
> Trust me, I know what levels she went to last time and how she hid it for so long. That was brought up, her answer was that she will leave before she ever puts me through that again.
> 
> I wish everything was so black and white as many of you make it out to be... And maybe it should be. But with 3 other lives to consider I am willing to give every opportunity to make this marriage work. No doubt what happened on Friday night is wrong, she admits that.
> 
> 3 weeks ago I did not think she was into this marriage at all and was just staying for the kids. Today after all this that has changed and issues are being worked through.


If you decide to let this slide then at least sit her down AS THE MAN AND HUSBAND OF THIS RELATIONSHIP, and lay out some boundaries.

#1 it IS NOT OKAY to go to a man's house alone with him EVER for ANY REASON. That is highly inappropriate behavior for a married person and she has to understand and accept that.

Other rules are for you to come up with or others here will help.

I'm afraid this situation stinks. Maybe she has learned to be more careful. My question is what married woman goes to a single man's house until 2:30 in the morning? A cheating woman, that's who.

Still, it's your decision to make going forward but she HAS to know that this was highly out of bounds.


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## KingwoodKev

Dday said:


> I have tried to forgive, I think she has tried to assist in that process. It just happens from time to time where I lose control and need to know more. It's like the first 16 years of our relationship has been a lie. What else don't I know? What about the time you came to this bar? Little details I may have questioned in the past now come back with me thinking she has slept with every guy she has ever talked to. I don't really believe all this but I need to ask for some reason to be assured. That is driving her nuts, she understands why I do it, she doesn't know why I want to live through it everyday though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Married women don't go to bars where single men are. That's another good rule. If she can't accept that then you don't want her.


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## convert

out till 4 am and nothing happened????.....well what did happen?????

what was her explanation?? this should be good one......we have heard just about all of them.


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## cdbaker

I agree with KingwoodKev.

I'm willing to believe that nothing "over the line" happened here, and I bet that they weren't even close to crossing any lines either given how little they've communicated and how she knows quite clearly that she couldn't hide her being out with him all night long. If anything, I bet the fact that she knew that nothing "wrong" was going to happen is why she felt it was ok to be alone with him in the first place.

The problem is, that's how it starts. Everything is totally innocent, so there seems no reason to worry about being alone with him/her, because you know it's innocent. That alone time and privacy however is what allows the friendship to grow closer, then laughter, then secrets shared, feelings/emotions open up, and before you know it he/she is hiding it because they are increasingly concerned about how it might look to "outsiders" and are fooling themselves into feeling it's innocent. So as KingwoodKev stated, this is where you need to make it clear in no uncertain terms that it is absolutely unacceptable for her to spend time alone together with another man, ESPECIALLY under any one of the circumstances she found herself in the other night. (At a bar, possibly inebriated, at his home, out into the early hours of the morning, etc.) Any one of those make it that much worse. This isn't about controlling her, it's about her proving her trustworthiness to you after having already thrown away the initially "free" trust that was built prior to her affair.

So make sure she understands. No time alone with other men, no excuses, or she can leave.


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## Dday

convert said:


> out till 4 am and nothing happened????.....well what did happen?????
> 
> what was her explanation?? this should be good one......we have heard just about all of them.


Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home. She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong. She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

Dday said:


> Yes the fact that she shut the phone off and that she's out until 4:00am led me to conclude that she is up to her deceivious cheating ways again.


 There is no good reason for a married woman to go over to a single guys home, turn off their phone, and stay there until 4:00am. None. When you factor in her past record of cheating, this is even more absurd. At best your cheating wife has no respect for you and the normal boundaries of marriage, and is in a full blown emotional affair (EA). More likely it is has gone at least partially physical. Cheaters in EAs always say that nothing happened. What they mean is that they are only in an EA with lots of touching and kissing, but they have not yet had full on intercourse. Remember former president Bill Clinton said that he "did not have sex with that woman", because he did not consider oral sex to be sex, even though his DNA from the BJ was all over her blue dress. That is just how cheaters think, and your wife is a proven cheater.


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## KingwoodKev

TRy said:


> There is no good reason for a married woman to go over to a single guys home, turn off their phone, and stay there until 4:00am. None. When you factor in her past record of cheating, this is even more absurd. At best your cheating wife has no respect for you and the normal boundaries of marriage, and is in a full blown emotional affair (EA). More likely it is has gone at least partially physical. Cheaters in EAs always say that nothing happened. What they mean is that they are only in an EA with lots of touching and kissing, but they have not yet had full on intercourse. Remember former president Bill Clinton said that he "did not have sex with that woman", because he did not consider oral sex to be sex, even though his DNA from the BJ was all over her blue dress. That is just how cheaters think.


Good post. What married woman would ever think it's okay to go to a man's home alone with him under any circumstances? There are none where this is okay.


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## BurningHeart

You're in denial, which I was too. My wife didn't see anything wrong with running the bars, talking on the phone to a mutual guy "friend" until all hours of the night, even in front of me. When I caught them at his place at 1am in a dark house, he let me in after I threatened to tear the door down, but it was a good 5 minutes. She was in the bathroom and swore up and down they were just talking. He had recently got divorced because he cheated on his wife and she was being the supported "friend" because everyone else abandoned him.
I'm not into the whole "open" marriage thing, but if you are then stay for the kids. But like I've said dozens of times, staying in a crappy marriage for the kids only destroys them instead of saving them. Thankfully my two boys were only 3 & 5 and had no recollection of us even being together.
It sucks & I'm sorry you're in this situation but there is no happy ending.


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## Yeswecan

Dday said:


> Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home. She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong. She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dday...it makes little difference if the entire football and cheer leading squad was at the single dudes house. The fact remains her past indiscretions would dictate not disappearing to some other guys house, shutting off the phone and play innocent when found out.


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## TRy

Dday said:


> Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home. She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong. She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Wow, she was pissed at you from "what happened a few weekends ago" and did not like you texting her "after she was only out for a short time" so she feels that she gets to ignore the normal boundaries of a married woman because she "just didn't feel like coming home". Wow, this answer is right out of the entitled cheaters script and shows that she has no respect for you or your marriage at all. 

News flash: you are not perfect and neither is she. Their will always be excuses to cheat if being angry is all that you need to justify bad behavior.


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## Dyokemm

Dday,

Sorry you are having to deal with this sh*t again.

I wouldn't believe a f*cking word out of either of their mouths about what went down.

She knew she was busted when the GPS alarm went off on the phone.

They had plenty of time to concoct some BS story to tell you....and I would bet my life savings that this is exactly what they are attempting to do.

Put no faith in the lack of evidence on her phone and electronic communications....she had a burner phone when you caught her with POSOM#2...she has undoubtedly become even better at hiding things...and since she sees him regularly for class, she can even forgo the need for electronic contact almost altogether.

IMO you are being gaslighted like crazy.

But even if you gave her the benefit of the doubt that nothing happened, I would file for D immediately just based on the complete and utter lack of respect and care for you demonstrated by her even going to another man's house given her previous TWO A's and the struggles with R you have been having.

Your WW does not deserve the gift of R you have tried to extend to her...this sick act of cruelty just confirms it.


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## michzz

TRy said:


> Wow, she was pissed at you from "what happened a few weekends ago" and did not like you texting her "after she was only out for a short time" so she feels that she gets to ignore the normal boundaries of a married woman because she "just didn't feel like coming home". Wow, this answer is right out of the entitled cheaters script and shows that she has no respect for you or your marriage at all.
> 
> News flash: you are not perfect and neither is she. Their will always be excuses to cheat if being angry is all that you need to justify bad behavior.


Classic, reminds me of the line i got from my ex when she was busted:

"Maybe I wouldn't have had to go with him if you trusted me more."

Don't even let her try to make this about you pushing her into anyone's arms.


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## tulsy

cdbaker said:


> ...She should know better...


She does. 

She knows better.

She simply didn't give a chit. If anything, she WANTED to hurt Dday. 

She knew he'd be upset about it. *That's who she is.*

Out drinking till 4:am, going back to a single guy's house, and turning the phone off...

For me, that would be enough, and my girl hasn't cheated...Ms. Dday is a serial cheater!

Dday, how is it that you have been cool with her even going out to GNO's which include a man? Do you go to BNO's that include a woman?

When is enough, enough? Seriously dude...how did your reconciliation ever even include GNO's, drinking at bars all night, considering her past?


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## 2asdf2

Dday said:


> Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home. She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong. She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She complains that you are still hurting from the previous episode. Yet, she tortures you anew with this new bruhaha?

The disrespect of having affairs pales compared with her treatment of you.

You are being toyed with, unfortunately.


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## tryingtogetover

Dday, you are blaming yourself. This is not your fault. She is a cheater. You need to divorce her and move on.

My thoughts and prayers are with you buddy.


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## Dday

tulsy said:


> She does.
> 
> She knows better.
> 
> She simply didn't give a chit. If anything, she WANTED to hurt Dday.
> 
> She knew he'd be upset about it. *That's who she is.*
> 
> Out drinking till 4:am, going back to a single guy's house, and turning the phone off...
> 
> For me, that would be enough, and my girl hasn't cheated...Ms. Dday is a serial cheater!
> 
> Dday, how is it that you have been cool with her even going out to GNO's which include a man? Do you go to BNO's that include a woman?
> 
> When is enough, enough? Seriously dude...how did your reconciliation ever even include GNO's, drinking at bars all night, considering her past?


It wasn't a GNO, although she has had them and I'm ok with that. How can you have a true R if she can't be out without me? There are plenty of nights I go out without her and there are plenty of nights we spend together as a family. 

I agree that it was total disrespect and this was the first time in the last 21 months that I felt that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy

Dday said:


> ...I'm afraid I will never feel what I need from her to be completely happy again....


Those are your words, *from March of last year*...

In light of her recent behavior, why are you even looking to her, OF ALL PEOPLE, to help you feel completely happy again?

I doubt you're happy having to check up on your wife, wondering where she is, who she's with, when she's coming home, what she's doing, etc. It's no way to live.

Don't you think is she truly cared she would stop putting you in this position? She'd come home at a decent time, she wouldn't even consider having drinks one-on-one with ANY other man, and going to another man's house till 4:am wouldn't even be on her radar.

Do you think that maybe you dislike yourself for staying with her? Staying with someone who continues to try to hurt you? Because that's EXACTLY what she did in this case...she purposely tried to hurt you...she even said she did it because she was upset with you, and she knows you knew where she was.

You have to love yourself in order to be happy.... Can you love yourself if you stay with this person?


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## tacoma

Dday said:


> Ok.... Exactly what I expected to hear from most of you, and exactly what I was thinking before she got home.
> 
> Yes the fact that she shut the phone off and that she's out until 4:00am led me to conclude that she is up to her deceivious cheating ways again. What through me off was the single guy, I know him, not that well but we have been together in groups several times and have had a few conversations. He walked her right to the door and he looked completely innocent and harmless.
> 
> She of course denied anything happened and they were just friends blah blah blah. Nothing really accomplished that night except I got her phone and read messages emails and the call logs.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing was deleted, no phone calls to him were deleted which I checked against the phone bill, text messages were there and look innocent and friendly. Nothing in email or Internet search history to raise any more flags.
> 
> The next morning I have her text him and again no signs of anything going on. My wife left for the store at some point and I called the single guy to feel him out. He understands how bad it looked but swore nothing would happen like that.
> 
> My wife's story and his match up identically and now I'm stuck wondering what if I never called. What if I fell asleep and didn't look up find my iPhone. I think I may of stopped an EA or PA but I'm about 98% sure nothing happened YET.
> 
> 
> Trust me, I know what levels she went to last time and how she hid it for so long. That was brought up, her answer was that she will leave before she ever puts me through that again.
> 
> I wish everything was so black and white as many of you make it out to be... And maybe it should be. But with 3 other lives to consider I am willing to give every opportunity to make this marriage work. No doubt what happened on Friday night is wrong, she admits that.
> 
> 3 weeks ago I did not think she was into this marriage at all and was just staying for the kids. Today after all this that has changed and issues are being worked through.



Did you check her phone for messaging apps?
Whatsapp? etc?

She may have been innocent but she has to know GNO's should be off limits to a WW for the most part and drinking and hanging out in the home of a single man at 2-4am is seriously out of bounds.

Draw some boundaries if you can't dump her over this.
Keep your eyes open because something is going on.


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## alte Dame

Some people just can't free themselves from relationships that are toxic to them. You actually have free will and can choose not to continue to live like this. With such disrespect. And lack of love.

Even if she wasn't gaslighting you - and I bet she was - then there is still so much that is so wrong with what she did that it would be a true deal breaker for someone supposedly in R after suffering infidelity.

It sounds like she is tolerating your feelings about things, like she feels put upon by your pain. If her story is the truth, I can imagine the scene at his house when the gps dinged. She says, 'Here we go. This sh!t again.' No respect. No honoring you.

And why is she calling him at all? Why does she have single male friends? Married women committed to R simply don't do these things.


----------



## TRy

Dday said:


> She of course denied anything happened and they were just friends blah blah blah.


 She said that many times the last time that she cheated. That is what cheaters say. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.



Dday said:


> Nothing was deleted, no phone calls to him were deleted which I checked against the phone bill, text messages were there and look innocent and friendly. Nothing in email or Internet search history to raise any more flags.


 With burner phones and apps on her phone, a good cheater can cheat without a trace. A major study showed that most cheaters cheated without their spouses ever knowing. Getting caught cheating once is unlikely. Getting caught more than once cheating is very unlikely. 

Since getting a photo of cheaters actually in the act of having sex is almost impossible, in states were cheating matters in the divorce, a wife being caught drinking and staying over at a single guy's house until 4:00 am with her phone turned off, is about as good as it gets for proving that she cheated. Take a screen shot of her phone's GPS location that night and store it where she cannot get to it.



Dday said:


> I called the single guy to feel him out. He understands how bad it looked but swore nothing would happen like that.


 Calling your wife's probable affair partner and in effect asking him if he f**ked your wife, is just pathetic, and must have given him and your wife a good laugh when he told her about it.



Dday said:


> with 3 other lives to consider I am willing to give every opportunity to make this marriage work. No doubt what happened on Friday night is wrong, she admits that.


 No doubt that you have said this or something like this to your wife, which lets her know that as long as she is willing to lie to you about her cheating, she is safe knowing that you will never leaver her. She is now operating under the belief that if anyone dumps anyone in your marriage, it will have to be her leaving you for an affair partner.


----------



## BurningHeart

DDay, I hope you are really reading these responses with an open mind, you had to know that this barrage was coming, this forum serves as a source of accountability if you need to use it for one. As a former "cheatee", I can say we definitely have chips on our shoulders and if we can save someone else before it's too late & they are completely emasculated, we will do our best to.


----------



## waylan

It might be open for debate on whether something happened.... but leaving a bar at 2:30 am and going to a single guys house while turning her phone off is extremely suspicious. What isn't open for debate is the complete lack of respect she has for you... she basically took a crap on you...

Let me ask you a question - Do you deserve this type of treatment or do you deserve something more? The ball is in your court....


----------



## frankman

Whether she screwed him or not. 
She pushed your buttons in a massively disrespectful way.
Married people do NOT go out on dates!


----------



## Lostinthought61

Congratulation you are officially the KING OF WISHFUL THINKING and the Queen of Denial....i don't suppose you want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn trust me its real.


----------



## TRy

frankman said:


> Married people do NOT go out on dates!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
No matter how you look at it, this was a date, even if there was no sex.


----------



## vellocet

Dday said:


> She told me she was going for a couple drinks and she wouldn't be out late. So as midnight approaches I am getting pissed and she stops answering texts and phone calls. I have her on find my iPhone and I track her going to single guys house after the bar closes at 2:30 am. Once again not answering the phone and she even turns it off. No doubt in my mind now that something wrong is happening.


Yup, time to get rid of her.

Even if she wasn't doing anything with this guy, it is HIGHLY inappropriate behavior for a known cheater.

Her ass should be home when not out doing something legit.

Going to another man's home at 2:30am? So what are you going to do about this?


----------



## Q tip

She does this as you tolerate it. She does no heavy lifting, shows no remorse. Zero changes in behavior. To her, oral is not sex. Bet she owns a blue dress.

If you're not done with her, you must accept your new lifestyle. You can't have her AND an honest loving relationship. She is not compatible with honesty, integrity, marriage or you.

You cannot push rope. You can let it go. 

Date hotter younger babes. Toss this one back.


----------



## TRy

@OP: Look up the word "cuckhold". This is what your wife is trying to make you into. This is how it is done. Are you OK with that?


----------



## Sports Fan

I cant believe the nonsense excuses i am reading from D Day. Are you serious???

You are now paying the price for your lack of consequences and rugsweeping the first time round.

Personally if it were me, i would of packed up her shi.iit and delivered it to the OM door.

There is no reason of whatever for her to be out drinking with a single guy, let alone go back to his house at 2.30am. Do not for one second even attempt to believe that nothing happened. And just say hypothetically nothing happened the intent was there. She just got busted out before hand.

Note to self. She goes to his house about 2.30am comes home about 4am it only takes 15 minutes to screw. Tell me again how nothing happened???


----------



## jameskimp

A lobotomy wouldn't rid you of the denial you are in Dday.

Most cheaters don't change. They simply get better at cheating.


----------



## Dyokemm

"You are now paying the price for your lack of consequences and rugsweeping the first time round."

Unfortunately....this is true.

Dday was told by many posters here that his move to quickly forgive and R, without any serious consequences for his WW, was going to lead him to exactly this situation again.

But Dday....now at least you can look yourself in the mirror without guilt over the demise of the M and know you did make an honest attempt to save this.

I certainly hope that you are NOT considering signing up for another trip on this merry-go-round, however.

Enough is enough, my friend.

She does not deserve the M she has with you.

Take it away from her and kick her to the curb HARD and ASAP.


----------



## ConanHub

Where does your wife teach? I'm feeling frisky. &#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840; LOL!&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Citylinesox

Please where can I find a key to follow along..what is WW.?


----------



## ricky15100

Whether she did anything or not is irrelevant here, The fact that she went to a single guys house after drinking until 4 am tells you all you need to know about how your wife doesn't give 2 flying f##ks for your feelings, especially at a time when you where feeling particularly vulnerable!!

After everything she's done to you she should have been moving heaven and earth to reassure you.

Sorry pal but this rollercoaster ain't gonna ever end until YOU choose to get off it


----------



## turnera

So she went there BECAUSE she was mad at you?


----------



## Roselyn

Wake up from your slumber! You are dozing off as a husband. Woman here. You don't go party all night long and visit a single man's apartment to just talk. She is cheating and you know it. You have a very low self esteem to tolerate your wife's behavior.

Divorce her and heal yourself. What you've got is a serial cheater of a wife and you are in great denial. She doesn't respect you and you need to have a spine to stand up to your situation. I feel sorry for spouses like you. You are living in a state of torment. This is your world if you do nothing.


----------



## altawa

I agree with the others.....she is most likely cheating. 

You are the only one that can decide at this point: put your foot down and have self respect or continue on and wait for the next time?


----------



## the guy

Even after a few yrs my old lady was on thin ice....your WW just brought it all back to square one......

You gave her a shot way back when and she phucked it up. Most chicks don't even get that and yours did and phucked it up yrs later.

Ya this is a 3rd strike...some spousess don't even get up to 2 strikes.


----------



## the guy

I'm 5 yrs into R and even now that kind of crap your old lady pulled is a deal breaker for me. My old lady knows this.

Apparently your old lady is testing. I hope she fails the test and you let her go.

Sorry dude but you are at cross roads here and letting this slide will not work well for you.


Any way I really think your old lady did this as an exit....I really think she is done and figures her actions would surely end the marriage.


I'm sure you had the talk...."if this ever happens again we are done"

Right?


----------



## the guy

You don;t screw around on your spouse , get busted, spend the next couple of yrs in R and not realize the consequences for this kind of crap.


----------



## Dyokemm

Have her served D papers in front of POSOM3 and the class she teaches.

Nothing will help you regain your self-esteem and pride better than a very public and humiliating F*ck You and rejection from you to her in front of all her friends and students.

And every single one if them will probably turn and look right at POSOM knowing he is the cause.,,,,be a good humiliation for thet piece of filth as well.


----------



## Chaparral

I don't know a single man that would not have kicked her out. Its amazing to me. Neither of you have a concept of what marriage is about. Married people don't go out drinking partying without each other.

I'm sixty three, one couple I know have made through gno/bno and are still together. The five women that one faithful wife went out with are all messed up their marriages. I have seen so many broken families over this.

Inexplicably, you are the poster boy for what not to do and you still can't learn from past mistakes.


----------



## lordmayhem

Dyokemm said:


> Dday was told by many posters here that his move to quickly forgive and R, without any serious consequences for his WW, was going to lead him to exactly this situation again.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## Q tip

He does not like it, but his betaization is so complete, he does not know what to do.

Amazing. Just read MMSLP. It's all you need to read.

Take the red pill, dude.


----------



## the guy

Chaparral said:


> Married people don't go out drinking partying without each other.
> 
> .


ESPECIALLY MARRIED PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS INFIDELITY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And trust me....2 yrs aint sh1T...my old lady mad it 5 yrs straight, before phucking around again.

Sorry for yelling.


----------



## manticore

*Dude Really?, you can not be that naive, nobody can be that naive*

Dude she consciously turned off her phone without caring of how it would look because she knew you would forgive her behaviour in the end, she just did not care, she knew you knew she was with the guy you are wary off, and she did not care, she went to his home and she knew you had ways to find about it and still she did not care, dude what all of it tells you, answer it as if you were not the person living it but seeing it happen to other guy.

and now dude, if she knows you can check her phone at any moment you think she would use *"that phone to do any improper bahaviour"* of course not, I can almost bet she have a burn phone, and dude maybe the guy is shy and not what you would call a player but if a woman is offering herself you don't have to be a womanizer or have to aptitude of one to score.

man, think when you were younger, *my God it happened to me no more than 8 years ago* but dude what you in your days as a single bachelor thought about a woman that wanted after a night of drinks go to keep the "party" and go to a man's place were just other 2 guys are going (and that if the third guy did really existed), (note that I am not saying married woman, just woman) any man knows that at that point he will score for sure.

*And dude more important that anything else*, please tell me what a man and a woman alone and after a night of drinks would do for 1 hour and a half at 2:30 am, watch TV?, talk about work?, NOOOOOOOO, of course no, see, let me be a little unrealistic here and lets say that she really did nothing physical with him (PFFF I am trying really har to imagine it), in the best case scenario, they were talking sh*t about you about how you are a control freak and how she had to turn off her phone to have a night free of you, and he were all the night feeding her ego of how fantastic she is and how you dont appreciate it, and that for itself is a betrayal again.

*Please wake up, how many guys like this have you to experience to realize what the logic scenary is?*


----------



## ConanHub

Dyokemm said:


> Have her served D papers in front of POSOM3 and the class she teaches.
> 
> Nothing will help you regain your self-esteem and pride better than a very public and humiliating F*ck You and rejection from you to her in front of all her friends and students.
> 
> And every single one if them will probably turn and look right at POSOM knowing he is the cause.,,,,be a good humiliation for thet piece of filth as well.


This advice is adequate and Conan approved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

You know what worse than having your wife conducting a nine month affair under your nose with her bff's brother then learning she had at least one other A is not learning anything from it.


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> I'm 5 yrs into R and even now that kind of crap your old lady pulled is a deal breaker for me. My old lady knows this.
> 
> Apparently your old lady is testing. I hope she fails the test and you let her go.
> 
> Sorry dude but you are at cross roads here and letting this slide will not work well for you.
> 
> 
> Any way I really think your old lady did this as an exit....I really think she is done and figures her actions would surely end the marriage.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you had the talk...."if this ever happens again we are done"
> 
> Right?


:iagree:
Sh!t test and he failed-not to be harsh-when you act like you don't give a crap and you are moving on then and only then may she start chasing you.
The guy and I are studs kidding for me at least.
I'll pull a Mach here do women hit on you?
MMSLP is your prescription for today and working out.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> Have her served D papers in front of POSOM3 and the class she teaches.
> 
> Nothing will help you regain your self-esteem and pride better than a very public and humiliating F*ck You and rejection from you to her in front of all her friends and students.
> 
> And every single one if them will probably turn and look right at POSOM knowing he is the cause.,,,,be a good humiliation for thet piece of filth as well.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Oh and I like this.
DO IT!


----------



## tom67

Spidey sense or no?
Starting to wonder.


----------



## manticore

jim123 said:


> You know what worse than having your wife conducting a nine month affair under your nose with her bff's brother then learning she had at least one other A is not learning anything from it.


My God TY, I remember the case now, his wife is a serial cheater with 2 proved affairs and even the possibility of 4 in her belt, besides the 2 proven there was other guy she was close in her kickboxing class and suddendly averything become distant (like when a classic OM his fun and don't want to progress further to not have probles, and there was other guy also).

Dday is hopeless, alot of good advices were given back then, many of them right on the spot, many told him that he never enforced cosequences, he allowed her to continue in her kickboxing class, he let her to keep frecuenting the family of the OM, he let her to keep her FB account where she communicated with OMs, *Now I remember this is one of the more passive and beta BSs that have been in TAM*, his original thread had like 40 pages of people telling him this would happen again and what to do at least to enforce boundaries and he ignored it all, *Tammers don't waste your time in this already lost battle*


----------



## happy as a clam

Dday, this is pathetic. My, oh my.

(And tom... Yes, my spidey sense is up.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MovingAhead

Dday, why are you living your life like you are? You do know that she may wait until the kids are grown before she leaves you or she may not... Why do you want to be around a person who treats you with such a lack of respect.

Figure out your options, be smart.


----------



## tom67

MovingAhead said:


> Dday, why are you living your life like you are? You do know that she may wait until the kids are grown before she leaves you or she may not... Why do you want to be around a person who treats you with such a lack of respect.
> 
> Figure out your options, be smart.


Welcome back Moving:smthumbup:
He's right.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Please help me understand your self blame and the excuse making for your wife.

When you get angry, or trigger, you ask about the affair too much.

When she gets angry, or feels you don't trust her at an appropriate level, she goes home with a single guy after closing down a bar. 

Her reaction is COMPLETELY out of proportion to your alleged excessive questions..


----------



## CH

Dday, if this was your best friend, brother, sister, etc...What would you tell them.

Spouse has a history of cheating.

Goes out and doesn't answer the phone. At midnight using find my phone you see she's at the single guys house. You call, 10 minutes later he (single guy) sends her home....

Now, if you were outside looking in, what would you be telling them. 

Oh, their story matches and it's all innocent according to the both of them. My wife was just innocently staying at a single guys house, AFTER DRINKING, not answering her phone and only came home when busted....

Remember the old saying

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.
Fool me three times...There shouldn't be a third time if you gave them a 2nd chance.


----------



## Dyokemm

"my old lady mad it 5 yrs straight, before phucking around again."

theguy,

What?....I must be missing something here my friend.

I remember the basic details of your story....remember it all came to a head when you woke up 5 years ago, the 20 OM, etc.

But I don't recall you saying she did anything again after you two moved to R and really fixed your M.

I thought things were great between you and the missus.

Am I misreading something here, my friend, or did I miss an unfortunate new chapter in your story?


----------



## Ceegee

Is this really for real?

Two confirmed with a possibility of four more.?

And you're allowing yourself to feel guilt about questioning her. Allowing her to go out with no accountability?

Dday, TAM is a great resource for people looking to help themselves but if you don't listen to what people are saying why come here?

There is one and only one next step. File for D. There really is nothing else to do in this situation. 

She is intentionally rubbing your face in her stench and you go along with it. You complain about it but in the end you are complicit by allowing it to continue.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dyokemm said:


> "my old lady mad it 5 yrs straight, before phucking around again."
> 
> theguy,
> 
> What?....I must be missing something here my friend.
> 
> I remember the basic details of your story....remember it all came to a head when you woke up 5 years ago, the 20 OM, etc.
> 
> But I don't recall you saying she did anything again after you two moved to R and really fixed your M.
> 
> I thought things were great between you and the missus.
> 
> Am I misreading something here, my friend, or did I miss an unfortunate new chapter in your story?


Given what I know of his story, he either means that it's been 5 years since she's "phucked around" or that, at one point, she went 5 years between affairs.


----------



## Dyokemm

Yeah Gus...I was hoping I just misread or misunderstood that.

Really threw me for a second.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> I have tried to forgive, I think *she has tried to assist in that process.* It just happens from time to time where I lose control and need to know more. It's like the first 16 years of our relationship has been a lie. What else don't I know? What about the time you came to this bar? Little details I may have questioned in the past now come back with me thinking she has slept with every guy she has ever talked to. I don't really believe all this but I need to ask for some reason to be assured. That is driving her nuts, she understands why I do it, she doesn't know why I want to live through it everyday though.


Really? Because I'd think that this would include NOT staying out until 4 am, and _*especially* not in the company of other men_.

EVER.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. *She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home.*


Neither of these things are acceptable.



Dday said:


> She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong.


Even _if_ everything was legit and above board (LOL), she should've bailed as soon as the other person left.



Dday said:


> She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.


The bottom line is that you shouldn't have had to take it that far.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> It wasn't a GNO, although she has had them and I'm ok with that. *How can you have a true R if she can't be out without me?* There are plenty of nights I go out without her and there are plenty of nights we spend together as a family.
> 
> I agree that it was total disrespect and this was the first time in the last 21 months that I felt that way.


That's fine and all, but there's a difference between (a) going out w/ friends and (b) going out w/ friends, and then hanging out alone w/ other men until 4 am after drinking all night, and all while failing -- or, to be more accurate, _*REFUSING*_ -- to communicate w/ you.


----------



## lordmayhem

manticore's right. This is already a lost battle. I can't believe I wasted my time with this. I'm outta here.


----------



## always_hopefull

So what exactly was her reasoning for going to his place alone? Or for staying there? I'd get the number of the other guy who was with them for a short time. 

She's only pizzed that your tracking her and it's making it difficult to get away. 

FYI, in MHO I think the biggest issue here is that you still think it's acceptable for your wife to go out partying without you. Her age is unimportant, she's a married mother, this behaviour is toxic. And I'm a woman.


----------



## Acoa

Dday, do yourself a favor and stop listening to her sh1te.

She sounds a lot like my ex. Liars with much to lose stick to their stories no matter how lame. If you do turn up some evidence to refute, they alter the story and get indignant about your prying.

My ex knew I was monitoring, so she was very careful to sound all innocent in texts. But they had a group activity together, and would often trade texts about when they were going to be present. They only made plans face to face. She had found a VAR early and was even careful not to say much at home or in the car. 

Is she your partner? Is she respecting you and trying to build you up?

Or is she a selfish child? Pursuing her own selfish desires and lashing out when you confront her?

Is this how you want to live?


----------



## Dday

lordmayhem said:


> manticore's right. This is already a lost battle. I can't believe I wasted my time with this. I'm outta here.


If you don't want to help then dont. Plenty of good posters here who I respect. 

Don't worry about your spidey senses, this is as real as it gets. 

A quick timeline of what happened in the past to the future. 

December 2010 - caught her in affair 1 but rugswept and never admitted until dday
September 2011- affair 2 started
March 2012- Dday
Feb 2014- affair 3?

I am listening to everything you are saying, I understand how everything looks from the outside. I understand that cheaters all follow the same patterns. 

Last night I slept in the basement. Not sure why I get the basement when she does all the wrong but I guess that's how it is. I asked her to leave last night, but she won't, I don't want to leave the kids either. 

I don't think anything happend Friday night but the way it was going, something was going to in the near future. The disrespect showed from that night shows she wants out and barring a miracle she will get her wish eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Dday said:


> It wasn't a GNO, although she has had them and I'm ok with that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course you are. A cheating woman's dream husband.


----------



## turnera

> she wants out and barring a miracle she will get her wish eventually.


Yeah, sure she will.

She'll throw away the doormat who helps her out financially, lets her go out, lets her stay til 4am with another man, _and does nothing about it_. Oh, and then sleeps in the basement because she won't give up the bed.

Nothing has changed.


----------



## BurningHeart

I think if she wanted out, she would already have been gone. When my ex cheated, she filed a few days later, which saved me the trouble of doing it. Your wife wants her cake and eat it too. She wants to have her kids & a built in babysitter in you, so she can go out and frolic, it's the best of both worlds for her. If you don't file, you will be stuck for as long as you can take it, because she doesn't seem to be bothered, maybe just annoyed. She knows you won't leave, because no other guy I can think of would still be there, you've proven that to her. She has open reign to do what she wants. If you're determined to stay, then just be roommates and concentrate on your kids and ignore her completely, of course that hurts your kids in the long run. Like I've said before, sadly you get no happy ending, but a fresh start is at least a chance at happiness, staying will afford you none ever.


----------



## Rugs

Dday said:


> If you don't want to help then dont. Plenty of good posters here who I respect.
> 
> Don't worry about your spidey senses, this is as real as it gets.
> 
> A quick timeline of what happened in the past to the future.
> 
> December 2010 - caught her in affair 1 but rugswept and never admitted until dday
> September 2011- affair 2 started
> March 2012- Dday
> Feb 2014- affair 3?
> 
> I am listening to everything you are saying, I understand how everything looks from the outside. I understand that cheaters all follow the same patterns.
> 
> Last night I slept in the basement. Not sure why I get the basement when she does all the wrong but I guess that's how it is. I asked her to leave last night, but she won't, I don't want to leave the kids either.
> 
> I don't think anything happend Friday night but the way it was going, something was going to in the near future. The disrespect showed from that night shows she wants out and barring a miracle she will get her wish eventually.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Go see a lawyer. Why are you sleeping in the basement? Stop punishing yourself. 

Yes, it's over. You might be the last person to know this or hanging on for another rug-sweep. Your kids will respect you (I promise) if you take action and file for divorce ASAP. 

Your wife sounds life she is out of control so do not tell her anything you are doing. I fear she will use it against you. 

Pretend she doesn't exist. Ignore her a call a lawyer today. If you need to take a sick day, take one. This is important. 

No one should be living this way by choice.


----------



## vellocet

Easy guys. We can see it because we aren't being mentally abused by her.

He's in pain. I understand being in denial when you are desperate. So ease up on him. He can't see it, we can. Lets help him see it without being asses to him. He's basically being mentally abused by his not giving a sh!t POS cheating wife. He's got a lot of things running through his mind right now.


----------



## BurningHeart

I agree and I don't think I have been that way, but when emotions are running high, pain or anger, that is primetime when you will actually act on them. If he settles down and lets himself completely buy into the denial or grow numb, then the chances of action are greatly diminished. I think everyone's intent is to "fire him up" and not further hurt him. My friends & family did the same for me after my ex cheated, when I was trying to pretend like things would be good again. I hated to hear it too, it just seemed to drive the knife deeper, but sometimes you have to hear it enough for it to really sink in.


----------



## toonaive

it-guy said:


> I don't think this counts as being busted. She did this on purpose and did not care what he thought about it. She basically did this right in front of him. Cutting off her phone and all......


This!:iagree:

Time to pull the plug, permanently.


----------



## Ripper

Dday said:


> Last night I slept in the basement. Not sure why I get the basement when she does all the wrong but I guess that's how it is.


Really? The way you have be letting her run over you, I'm surprised she didn't make you sleep outside.


----------



## Q tip

DDay,

Please disregard these good folks. Just sit down with your coffee and Beta Pie. Everything's just fine. It's all good.

Just be a good beta. There's nothing you can do. Youre supposed to be helpless while all these strong women do as they please all around you. Be that Plan B they really want of you. Be that rock in their orgy ridden lives...

/Snarkoff

The answer for you can be found between the covers of MMSLP. It will give you knowledge, strength and a will.


----------



## lordmayhem

happy as a clam said:


> Dday, this is pathetic. My, oh my.
> 
> (And tom... Yes, my spidey sense is up.)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## DoneWithHurting

Martial arts and marital arts are seperated only by the placement of the "i"

Lots of feel good cehms are released during MA practice and bonding occurs due the the physical contact. When men and women practice together sh-t happens. 

The energies created by MA are powerful and all sorts of cheating happen in MA schools... especially senior rank "using" junior rank.
Your wife should be ashamed of herself.

There's something called Martial Virtue. She obviously has none.
She cheated. Period.
Make a plan and Get out.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Okay DDay, 

okay let's play devil advocate for a moment, lets say nothing happen, can you see how disrespectful she is to you, can you see how her actions demonstrate that you are a doormat to her, your to be played with...as man as father as a human being how in world could tolerate the actions of a person...the rest of us are trying to help you but in the end you are just gas lighting yourself, your denying what is directly in front of your eyes, you are your children role model is this what you what you want to show them, a man who keeps denying what is in front of his eyes.


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife was practicing rubber guard with OM


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

LongWalk said:


> Your wife was practicing rubber guard with OM




May be wrestling with a dik inside.


----------



## turnera

Dday, I'm sorry we're all piling on top of you. Again.

But you know the drill. You're a smart guy. You know why this is happening. Yes, you've been overzealous in 'catching' her cheating and that's royally pissed her off so now she's just flat out teaching you a lesson because she KNOWS you aren't going anywhere. You know the danger - and result - of not manning up, of not having her fear losing you. We can't tell you anything new.

So, what do you want? What can we help you with?


----------



## soccermom2three

It doesn't sound like she's had any consequences or boundaries set by you. She still goes on GNO's and drinks after workout class, (which I don't understand, doesn't that defeat the purpose of working out?)


----------



## turnera

soccermom2three said:


> It doesn't sound like she's had any consequences or boundaries set by you. She still goes on GNO's and drinks after workout class, (which I don't understand, doesn't that defeat the purpose of working out?)


:rofl:

No, silly, you work out SO you can go for drinks!

At least, that's how _I_ do it!


----------



## Dday

Kallan Pavithran said:


> May be wrestling with a dik inside.


Haha you guys are funny
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dday

turnera said:


> Dday, I'm sorry we're all piling on top of you. Again.
> 
> But you know the drill. You're a smart guy. You know why this is happening. Yes, you've been overzealous in 'catching' her cheating and that's royally pissed her off so now she's just flat out teaching you a lesson because she KNOWS you aren't going anywhere. You know the danger - and result - of not manning up, of not having her fear losing you. We can't tell you anything new.
> 
> So, what do you want? What can we help you with?


I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

She's had, having and will continue to have affairs for one reason.

You never actually do anything about it. You set rules and she breaks them time and time again. You draw lines in the sand and she trample across them over and over.

She's not worried that you'll leave, because you haven't yet, though the reasons that she's already given to do so keep stacking like cord wood.

You are where you are because you choose to remain there.

She obviously doesn't want to be with you, at least for the right reasons anyway.

You seem to be looking for some magic potion that'll stop her from continuing to cheat on you, when it's actually you that's in need of a cure.

I know that you don't want to D her, but that's the way this is and has been heading for some time. Right now she doesn't need, or want you for love, or sex. When the time comes that she no longer needs you for the children and financials - she will have you served the D papers. The choice will no longer be yours.

Do me(and you a favor). Go to a mirror right now and look at the guy that's staring back at you. Then ask yourself, "Is this the man that I want to be?".

If the answer is no, then do something about it. Anything. You don't have to go all cave man, but you and your kid(s) are the most important thing right now. If you let yourself down, you also let them down too.

Many of us have been so hard on you because we've seen this so many times before here. Some of us were even right where you are right now. It's becomes so hard to read your post and what your doing/not doing that we'll try anything to get you to try something to start working your way out of this.

You can't change how, or if your wife respects you. You can change how, or if you respect yourself. You can continue to spin your wheels, or get out and start shoveling around the tires.

It looks like there's no end in sight for the snow falling, so GRAB A SHOVEL AND START DIGGING.


----------



## Q tip

Dday said:


> I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's hard. The alternative is exposing them to an unhappy toxic marriage and broken mom. An unhappy marriage is not the answer. Fix her or bail.


----------



## turnera

Dday said:


> I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it makes you feel better, I've seen MANY men come back here and say that once they got the routine going, they found that they were able to spend some days on stuff for them (activities, chores, work) and then on the days that they have their kids, they are able to just focus on being with their kids and doing what the kids need. And that it works out well for them. 

Think about what life you'll be having if you do nothing. In another year, your wife will be not only staying for days on end at other men's homes, she'll be trying to bring these men home to YOUR house when you're out of town or at work. That's where you're headed. Do you want your kids to grow up in THAT?


----------



## cdbaker

Q tip said:


> DDay,
> 
> Please disregard these good folks. Just sit down with your coffee and Beta Pie. Everything's just fine. It's all good.
> 
> Just be a good beta. There's nothing you can do. Youre supposed to be helpless while all these strong women do as they please all around you. Be that Plan B they really want of you. Be that rock in their orgy ridden lives...
> 
> /Snarkoff





Ripper said:


> Really? The way you have be letting her run over you, I'm surprised she didn't make you sleep outside.


Geez guys, let's calm down. He gets it already, there is no reason to just cruelly beat a man down. He slept in the basement because he asked his wife to leave and she refused. He can't legally force her to leave, and he did the right thing by not leaving himself instead. He says he agrees that what she did was horribly disrespectful and means she likely is not committed to the marriage long term, and thus she will likely get her freedom (divorce) sooner than later.

Just let the man grieve for a little while and offer support/advice, not mean-spirited posts that don't amount to much more than "You're such an idiot."


----------



## michzz

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> She's not worried that you'll leave, because you haven't yet, though* the reasons that she's already given to do so keep stacking like cord wood.*


This!

Pull the plug already.

File for divorce. Cut her out of your life.


----------



## vellocet

turnera said:


> :rofl:
> 
> No, silly, you work out SO you can go for drinks!
> 
> At least, that's how _I_ do it!


Its why I drink whisky, neat. All Scotch and no carbs.


----------



## BurningHeart

Dday said:


> I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After my divorce, our visitation schedule was every other Monday, every other Thurs & every other weekend, it worked out to be every 3 days, it was rough but doable. I had to take on a part time job, in addition to my full time one because child support for two kids was pretty high and I made more than her. I stayed pretty busy, so I didn't have much time a lone to dwell on not being with them. As they got older, they looked forward to our time together. Initially, they were 2 & 4, so they questioned very little.
Kids that live in broken marriages end up growing up thinking this was normal and either repeat the pattern or scar themselves out of ever getting married. I know you don't want either scenario for your kids. I feel for you, but you all will be so much better off.


----------



## ConanHub

Sorry Dday but your wife of hurting your children not you. She needs repercussions. She still might never become a better person but everyone deserves to know what she is since she is remorseless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2asdf2

Dday said:


> I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It took me decades to finally do what needed to be done. Decades!

It is a big step, no one wants to take it, and it needs lots of courage to accomplish. You may need more time/heartbreak before you summon up the resolve.

You already have experience with rug-sweeping.

Do you have an alternative?


----------



## Dday

2asdf2 said:


> It took me decades to finally do what needed to be done. Decades!
> 
> It is a big step, no one wants to take it, and it needs lots of courage to accomplish. You may need more time/heartbreak before you summon up the resolve.
> 
> You already have experience with rug-sweeping.
> 
> Do you have an alternative?


What do you mean by alternative?

A place to stay? I'm sure I could stay at my parents or my sisters. Future plans I could see getting a place with my brother as he is still a bachelor living with a friend right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## convert

No No that is not what he meant.

2asdf2 is saying you have rugsweep and it is not working, try another alternative.

like:
confront OM
Expose
monitore
MC and/or IC
or
have her served with divorce papers
anything but rugsweep

DO NOT MOVE OUT

if you want to stay married to her, then *no more*:
GNO
going to a males house until 4 am (it just seems weird to type that)

she is going to see this as controlling, it is not, it is called boundaries


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Dday said:


> It wasn't a GNO, although she has had them and I'm ok with that. How can you have a true R if she can't be out without me? There are plenty of nights I go out without her and there are plenty of nights we spend together as a family.
> 
> I agree that it was total disrespect and this was the first time in the last 21 months that I felt that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How often do you go to a single woman's house until 4am?

Say that outloud...Went to a single person's house until 4am.....going dark...untraceable...etc....and nothing happened


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Dday said:


> December 2010 - caught her in affair 1 but rugswept and never admitted until dday
> September 2011- affair 2 started
> March 2012- Dday
> Feb 2014- affair 3?


5 years of BS and a 2 year false reconciliation. So, let her be single. Yes, 2 parent homes can suck, but when my fiance cheated TWICE, I was done. All I did was catch her coming back from a movie on what looked like a double date. Nope, I didn't want to be "that guy" or "that broken family," but I didn't care. There is a certain point where my happiness supersedes everything else. A happy me is a better: 
Parent
Husband
Provider
Worker.

I do no regret ending it with my ex-fiance. I believe some people should never get married and your story reinforces this belief. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your wife being one of those people, except she got married.


----------



## convert

when you pinged her phone did it show where she was before she shut it down?

if it did I would have drove straight to the house and pounded on the door until she came out or the police arrived. If the kids are to young to leave home alone and there was nobody to watch them I would probably have them in the car with me, I know not the best situation but they are going to find out, if they don't know already.

How old are your kid(s)?

although at this stage in my life (in R at 19 months), I probably would of waited until next business day and went straight to lawyers office


----------



## turnera

> What do you mean by alternative?
> 
> A place to stay? I'm sure I could stay at my parents or my sisters. Future plans I could see getting a place with my brother as he is still a bachelor living with a friend right now.
> Posted via Mobile Device


I think he means manning up in your own home. Showing your kids what a strong, confident male role model looks like.


----------



## Dday

convert said:


> when you pinged her phone did it show where she was before she shut it down?
> 
> if it did I would have drove straight to the house and pounded on the door until she came out or the police arrived. If the kids are to young to leave home alone and there was nobody to watch them I would probably have them in the car with me, I know not the best situation but they are going to find out, if they don't know already.
> 
> How old are your kid(s)?
> 
> although at this stage in my life (in R at 19 months), I probably would of waited until next business day and went straight to lawyers office


When I pinged it she was just getting there. That was after I called and sent text messages which went unanswered. I had the thought of going there, and I really wanted to. My kids were sleeping which are 7-6-4. I really wanted to go but thought it was best I didnt. 

As soon as I saw her there I pulled up the phone records, saw the conversations over the last 2-3 weeks and then I called him. kind of surprised he answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Maybe he needed an out and you handed it to him


----------



## wmn1

so what is your gameplan ?

And why are you considering leaving the house when she is the cheater ?

And why do you think it's better for the kids to endure this ? 

With their ages, now is a better break time than a few years from now when they'll remember it all.

Don't you agree ?

Not piling on but trying to understand your thought process here ?

How about serving divorce papers and seeing how she reacts ?

I couldn't live like you do. There's a world out there waiting for you. 

Have you even tried a 180 ?

What type of evidence are you gathering ?

Did you try a var in the car to see what's up ?


----------



## naiveonedave

you already know she is cheating on you PA and EA and you don't put any fight to it. Lawyer up and just get it done.


----------



## bfree

Dday said:


> I know what I should do, what I need to do. I just don't know why I can't do it. I'm afraid of hurting my kids more than anything else. I can't stand the thought of not seeing them everyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you think your children are thriving in the current situation? Wouldn't they be better off being with you half the time rather than being in that toxic environment all the time?


----------



## Broken at 20

I promise you, letting your kids grow up in this environment, and think this is normal, is far worse than divorce. 



Have you ever heard of moral hazard? 
It is a thought that, if you bail someone out of a bad situation of their own making, what incentive will they have to not do whatever got them in that situation, again? 

You are on affair #4? 

Get what I am going at?


----------



## cdbaker

A VAR could be a very good idea now that I think about it, regardless of how you want to move forward. A VERY good idea.


----------



## altawa

You need to figure this out, and by figure this out, I mean either fix her or ditch her. You can't keep doing this.

If you really need more convincing, VAR her car, pull her facebook history, recover her texts, and go through her email. Keylog the computer as well to see if she has a different email you dont know about.


----------



## 2asdf2

Dday said:


> What do you mean by alternative?
> 
> A place to stay? I'm sure I could stay at my parents or my sisters. Future plans I could see getting a place with my brother as he is still a bachelor living with a friend right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Staying in the home and continuing as normal has not worked for you.

Your WW meant this whole incident to teach you a lesson. You still are *harping* about previous incidents, *she is pissed* at you, so she is giving you real time (now) stuff to worry about. *That will teach you!* 

Alternatives:

1. Rug-sweep this incident.
2. Have another round of two years of question/answer fighting.
3. Nice her back being super-submissive and kiss the grounds she walks on.
4. Accept it and act as if nothing had ever happened.
5. Resolve to divorce when the kids are out of the picture.
6. Take a job out of State.
7. Have a revenge affair.
8. Have a revenge exit affair.
9. Go to her/your parents or family see if they can intervene.
10. Go on medication fro your paranoia.

I am sure you can think of some other alternatives. Maybe you tried some of these already.

She is hurting you with premeditation. Does that cast any doubt on her love for you?


----------



## TRy

Dday said:


> It wasn't a GNO, although she has had them and I'm ok with that.


 GNO means Girls Night Out, and does not include men. So when she was at the bar with that other man (OM), it was not a GNO.


Dday said:


> How can you have a true R if she can't be out without me?


 She can be out without you, just not out alone in the home of another man until 4 am.


----------



## manticore

Dday said:


> If you don't want to help then dont. Plenty of good posters here who I respect.
> 
> Don't worry about your spidey senses, this is as real as it gets.
> [/i][/size]


What kind of help you think we can give you?

The only thing we can do for you is being honest with you and give you advices that come from experience and learning from previous posters, but you have decided to ignore all of that in the past.

I read your 40 pages thread, and there were alot of good advices there of how try to fix a relationship damaged for an affair and how to enforce the boundaries that are necessary for you to begin to heal and for her to proves you she is commited, and you followed none:

- It was adviced to you to enforce boundaries and to request her to close her Social media softwares and apps.
*and you did not do it*

- It was adviced to you to request her to stop any sort of communiocation with any person and friend related to the OM
*and you did not do it*

- It was adviced to demand her to stop GNO nad going to the parties and for drinks by herself with her "friends"
*an you did not do it*

- It was adviced to you to enforce consequences and at least give her the divorce papers to she to reconsider her past behavior from which she didn't appear to be that remorseful.
*an you did not do it*

- It was adviced to you to request her to quit kick boxing when you suspected of other guy in there.
*an you did not do it*

- It was adviced to you to DNA your kids because with her 2 affairs and the possibility of at least other she really seems to fit in the serial cheater category.
*an you did not do it*

- It was adviced to you to leave her when mos users found about the second affair and her past behavior with the other guy.
*an you did not do it*

Now here we are again as many predicted, and you will not follow any advice again, because it seems that the advice you want is *"sure dude buy these pills, "Loyaline" they can make a serial cheater to become loyal and never cheat again without you moving a finger"*

the only thing besides pestering her that you seem to have done, is to follow her by her phone GPS and check her calls and messages but LOL, this is so useless, *in the first affair you caught, she already was using a burn phone to not use her main cell phone, so why would she use now her main cell phone to cheat if she can again get a burn phone like in her last affair*.

*Now let me give you not and advice but a knowladge gotten from reading thousands of cases, people who use burn phones are not naive persons caught in an affair unwillinly that when they realized they already had feelings for other person, that kind of cheaters normally use their day to day phones because the affair progress from something innocent to romance gradually, Cheaters who use burn phones are experience cheaters that were alredy thinking in how not to get caught before the affair even starts, they were covering their bases to not leave evidence even before it begins, after all a person caught in an affair without the initial intention of doing it, not wakes up as say "Hoooo I think I should bought a burn phone and request OM/OW to just contact me for that medium just in case we began an affair together" *


----------



## convert

Fitnessfan said:


> *There is absolutely nothing wrong with GNO *2 years later. It is absolutely wrong to go to another man's house day or night and certainly not after drinking and turn your phone off when you try to contact her. This reminds me of a high school relationship, not a marriage.


when a wayward wife uses a GNO as a way to further an inappropriate out of bounds situation or an affair there is everything wrong with GNO

the OP said that she was going out with the girls for a few drinks after class so if he wants to stay married to her no more GNO for a while anyway.
you see op's wife used it as a guise to go out so it would be out of bounds from now on till well when ever.


----------



## jim123

convert said:


> when a wayward wife uses a GNO as a way to further an inappropriate out of bounds situation or an affair there is everything wrong with GNO
> 
> the OP said that she was going out with the girls for a few drinks after class so if he wants to stay married to her no more GNO for a while anyway.
> you see op's wife used it as a guise to go out so it would be out of bounds from now on till well when ever.


Her first A which was found out after Dday of affair #2 started and continued on a GNO. This should make them off limits as she has the capacity to cheat and her GF support her having an A.


----------



## convert

jim123 said:


> Her first A which was found out after Dday of affair #2 started and continued on a GNO. This should make them off limits as she has the capacity to cheat and her GF support her having an A.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## jim123

manticore said:


> What kind of help you think we can give you?
> 
> The only thing we can do for you is being honest with you and give you advices that come from experience and learning from previous posters, but you have decided to ignore all of that in the past.
> 
> I read your 40 pages thread, and there were alot of good advices there of how try to fix a relationship damaged for an affair and how to enforce the boundaries that are necessary for you to begin to heal and for her to proves you she is commited, and you followed none:
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce boundaries and to request her to close her Social media softwares and apps.
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to stop any sort of communiocation with any person and friend related to the OM
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to demand her to stop GNO nad going to the parties and for drinks by herself with her "friends"
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce consequences and at least give her the divorce papers to she to reconsider her past behavior from which she didn't appear to be that remorseful.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to quit kick boxing when you suspected of other guy in there.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to DNA your kids because with her 2 affairs and the possibility of at least other she really seems to fit in the serial cheater category.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to leave her when mos users found about the second affair and her past behavior with the other guy.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> Now here we are again as many predicted, and you will not follow any advice again, because it seems that the advice you want is *"sure dude buy these pills, "Loyaline" they can make a serial cheater to become loyal and never cheat again without you moving a finger"*
> 
> the only thing besides pestering her that you seem to have done, is to follow her by her phone GPS and check her calls and messages but LOL, this is so useless, *in the first affair you caught, she already was using a burn phone to not use her main cell phone, so why would she use now her main cell phone to cheat if she can again get a burn phone like in her last affair*.
> 
> *Now let me give you not and advice but a knowladge gotten from reading thousands of cases, people who use burn phones are not naive persons caught in an affair unwillinly that when they realized they already had feelings for other person, that kind of cheaters normally use their day to day phones because the affair progress from something innocent to romance gradually, Cheaters who use burn phones are experience cheaters that were alredy thinking in how not to get caught before the affair even starts, they were covering their bases to not leave evidence even before it begins, after all a person caught in an affair without the initial intention of doing it, not wakes up as say "Hoooo I think I should bought a burn phone and request OM/OW to just contact me for that medium just in case we began an affair together" *


When she was caught with her cell she just switched to the burner. She passed out and was caught with the burner. My point is she learned from this mistake too and is using other means.


----------



## Rugs

You have no idea what things will be like. 

My dad got full custody of all three kids because my mother was running around like a nutbag. 

Go see a lawyer.


----------



## Q tip

cdbaker said:


> Geez guys, let's calm down. He gets it already, there is no reason to just cruelly beat a man down. He slept in the basement because he asked his wife to leave and she refused. He can't legally force her to leave, and he did the right thing by not leaving himself instead. He says he agrees that what she did was horribly disrespectful and means she likely is not committed to the marriage long term, and thus she will likely get her freedom (divorce) sooner than later.
> 
> Just let the man grieve for a little while and offer support/advice, not mean-spirited posts that don't amount to much more than "You're such an idiot."


Hey, kid! No one's an idiot here. Its called in your face. Tough Love. He's our bro. He gets a lot of feedback. Good-guy, bad-guy, Philosophy, experiences and in your face. If you cant handle that, read the comics section over your Cherios.


----------



## TRy

convert said:


> when a wayward wife uses a GNO as a way to further an inappropriate out of bounds situation or an affair there is everything wrong with GNO


 I agree. There is a reason why cheaters should no longer be able to go on GNO. For a cheater, the best part of GNO is that by default the husband knows that he is not invited to come. This allows the other man to meet up with the cheater knowing that the husband is safely at home. For cheaters, GNO really means that every other man on the planet other than the husband is allowed to go.


----------



## Openminded

Some cheaters change. Many don't. Children who grow up with parents who have a bad marriage can greatly suffer. I did. I wanted my parents to divorce after my father cheated but my mother wanted to keep our family together. I wish she hadn't. When I was cheated on, I wanted to keep my family together. My son wishes I hadn't. 

Children see a lot more than parents ever imagine they do. And they often repeat it.


----------



## warlock07

Dday said:


> I posted my story after dday just about 2 years ago. I decided to try for R and stayed with my WW. It has not been easy and there have been several ups and downs.
> 
> I had a bad night a few weeks ago while we were out asking about the affair which happened 2 years ago and asking questions which were answered a million times. This got her very upset and it seemed she finally had enough of my insecurities which she caused. I admittedly have been very untrusting and won't let my guard down. It is not often but when I get triggered for some reason I respond by asking questions for any detail that may not make 100% sense and try to catch her in a lie. The next 2 weeks were pretty bad with little communication. We did talk last week and we made some progress with what we both needed to make this work.
> 
> Fast forward to this last Friday, my wife works out and teaches kickboxing classes and often on Fridays they go out for a couple drinks. I have been there for a few of the happy hours and it is mostly women or married couples except 1 guy. Of course he is on my radar and always ask when he is there.
> 
> She told me she was going for a couple drinks and she wouldn't be out late. So as midnight approaches I am getting pissed and she stops answering texts and phone calls. I have her on find my iPhone and I track her going to single guys house after the bar closes at 2:30 am. Once again not answering the phone and she even turns it off. No doubt in my mind now that something wrong is happening.
> 
> I end up pulling up the phone bill and see they have had conversations over the last 2 weeks about 4 times.
> 
> I debated waking the kids up and taking a ride over there but instead called the single guy.... He picked up and I told him to tell my wife to get home. He asked who this was and I simply hung up.
> 
> About 10 minutes later he drops her off and wanted to explain that nothing was going on, I pushed him out of my house before he could really talk.
> 
> I will post about her reaction and further details later


I don't remember the complete story but you reconciled because of faith, right ?

Look what the whole mess turned you into....


----------



## warlock07

Dday said:


> Really no explanation except I pissed her off. With what happened a few weekends ago and how I texted her after she was only out for a short time. She doesn't always communicate all that well and instead just didn't feel like coming home. She thought more people were staying out. Ended up being 3 of them and the third left fairly quickly. No real excuse, knew it was wrong. *She shut her phone off after I sounded the alarm on find my iPhone.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you are running out of excuses and look incredibly stupid..good luck


----------



## Dyokemm

I know Dday thinks he caught this before it became a full EA or PA.

I think he is probably in denial on both points.

Given the fact that she was behaving so angry and hostile to his continued questioning and monitoring during R recently....AND how brazenly cruel and inappropriate her behavior was after she realized she was busted....I think this was an exit affair....and it has probably been going on for awhile now.

Her growing anger in R is probably when it began....and that anger finally boiled over into saying f*ck it after drinking with POS on the GNO...and she took these blatantly destructive and insulting actions to finally reveal it...knowing it will end the M as she apparently wants.

Just what my gut says based on the facts presented.


----------



## wmn1

manticore said:


> What kind of help you think we can give you?
> 
> The only thing we can do for you is being honest with you and give you advices that come from experience and learning from previous posters, but you have decided to ignore all of that in the past.
> 
> I read your 40 pages thread, and there were alot of good advices there of how try to fix a relationship damaged for an affair and how to enforce the boundaries that are necessary for you to begin to heal and for her to proves you she is commited, and you followed none:
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce boundaries and to request her to close her Social media softwares and apps.
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to stop any sort of communiocation with any person and friend related to the OM
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to demand her to stop GNO nad going to the parties and for drinks by herself with her "friends"
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce consequences and at least give her the divorce papers to she to reconsider her past behavior from which she didn't appear to be that remorseful.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to quit kick boxing when you suspected of other guy in there.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to DNA your kids because with her 2 affairs and the possibility of at least other she really seems to fit in the serial cheater category.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to leave her when mos users found about the second affair and her past behavior with the other guy.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> Now here we are again as many predicted, and you will not follow any advice again, because it seems that the advice you want is *"sure dude buy these pills, "Loyaline" they can make a serial cheater to become loyal and never cheat again without you moving a finger"*
> 
> the only thing besides pestering her that you seem to have done, is to follow her by her phone GPS and check her calls and messages but LOL, this is so useless, *in the first affair you caught, she already was using a burn phone to not use her main cell phone, so why would she use now her main cell phone to cheat if she can again get a burn phone like in her last affair*.
> 
> *Now let me give you not and advice but a knowladge gotten from reading thousands of cases, people who use burn phones are not naive persons caught in an affair unwillinly that when they realized they already had feelings for other person, that kind of cheaters normally use their day to day phones because the affair progress from something innocent to romance gradually, Cheaters who use burn phones are experience cheaters that were alredy thinking in how not to get caught before the affair even starts, they were covering their bases to not leave evidence even before it begins, after all a person caught in an affair without the initial intention of doing it, not wakes up as say "Hoooo I think I should bought a burn phone and request OM/OW to just contact me for that medium just in case we began an affair together" *


very well said, Manticore


----------



## wmn1

Dyokemm said:


> I know Dday thinks he caught this before it became a full EA or PA.
> 
> I think he is probably in denial on both points.
> 
> Given the fact that she was behaving so angry and hostile to his continued questioning and monitoring during R recently....AND how brazenly cruel and inappropriate her behavior was after she realized she was busted....I think this was an exit affair....and it has probably been going on for awhile now.
> 
> Her growing anger in R is probably when it began....and that anger finally boiled over into saying f*ck it after drinking with POS on the GNO...and she took these blatantly destructive and insulting actions to finally reveal it...knowing it will end the M as she apparently wants.
> 
> Just what my gut says based on the facts presented.



agreed. He should look at 'Spaceghost' and 'Cuckold's' threads over on Surviving Infidelity just to see how decisively some people get a hold of the situation and crush it and then look back on himself and say "Dday, why am I at where I am at ?'


----------



## GusPolinski

From your other thread...



Dday said:


> The worse part of all of this is how, looking back, she was able to carry out these *affairs* almost effortlessly, with precision and premeditated actions.





Dday said:


> We have 3 kids (6,5,3)


Serial cheating wife and young children? Do I really need to say it?


----------



## convert

GusPolinski said:


> From your other thread...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serial cheating wife and young children? Do I really need to say it?


oh yes, It should be said


----------



## Chaparral

The part you're not getting is this is an addiction that she won't quit. The only way she can be helped is an intervention. Only you can do that. Right now you are enabling her. That makes you nearly as guilty as her and her boyfriends. Look at it this way, her boyfriend=her drug dealer, you equal her pimp, that leaves her. What would you call it.

Cut her off, make her go through withdrawal or let her live on the streets, metaphorically of course.


----------



## turnera

Dday, remind me please. Between then and now, did you read NMMNG and MMSLP? Did you go to a therapist to help you learn self love and how to stand up for yourself? Did you start practicing boundaries/consequences?

What has changed, and thus, what do you think should have changed through your actions?


----------



## Q tip

turnera said:


> Dday, remind me please. Between then and now, did you read NMMNG and MMSLP? Did you go to a therapist to help you learn self love and how to stand up for yourself? Did you start practicing boundaries/consequences?
> 
> What has changed, and thus, what do you think should have changed through your actions?


turnera. gotta find a goddess avatar for you.

dude, you gotta alpha up. stop orbiting around a serial cheat. just read those books. you gotta let her know she can do as she pleases. that you'll be single and dating hotter, younger babes who are mature enough to respect relationships.

in fact, you look forward to that day, probably while she discovers shes acquired vaginal herpes... to the dump with her...!

and your kids will love their new real mommy, while the witch fades from their memories.


----------



## cdbaker

jim123 said:


> Her first A which was found out after Dday of affair #2 started and continued on a GNO. This should make them off limits as she has the capacity to cheat and her GF support her having an A.


I hadn't thought of the friends issue or seen much discussion about it either, but I think it's important here as well. In my personal view, pretty much any "friend" who supports an affair of any kind should be considered "toxic" from that moment forward, ESPECIALLY if reconciliation is still considered an option. 

The circumstances around that really don't make a difference. I don't care if a woman (or man) is physically and mentally abused day and night, if a spouse is addicted to alcohol, drugs, porn, gambling, etc., or even if a spouse is engaged in their own affair, there is really ZERO excuse for secretly cheating on your spouse. Therefore, any friend who is willing to support ANY form of affair really isn't a friend at all. Walking away from these people can be really difficult (especially for women I bet, where "supporting your friend" no matter what they're doing seems to be more deeply ingrained in them, just my personal opinion) when those friends probably were just trying to show empathy and be supportive, but I think it's pretty important if reconciliation will have a chance. For me personally, the friends of my wife who supported her affair were just as guilty. They became huge triggers for me.


----------



## the guy

Fitnessfan said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with GNO 2 years later. It is absolutely wrong to go to another man's house day or night and certainly not after drinking and turn your phone off when you try to contact her. This reminds me of a high school relationship, not a marriage.


:iagree:

In my case it wasn't a coworker or some running partner....if my old lady went to GNO some swinging penis would lick his way into my old ladies pants.

I think my point is that what ever the activity...be it work, business trip, gym, or even the bar with the friend...if that's were the wayward was getting laid ...it would be a deal breaker to resume that activity.

I'm just saying if ones spouse was phucking his or her bird watching buddy then bird watching would be off the table if keeping the marriage was more important then bird watching.


----------



## the guy

Dyokemm said:


> "my old lady mad it 5 yrs straight, before phucking around again."
> 
> theguy,
> 
> What?....I must be missing something here my friend.
> 
> I remember the basic details of your story....remember it all came to a head when you woke up 5 years ago, the 20 OM, etc.
> 
> But I don't recall you saying she did anything again after you two moved to R and really fixed your M.
> 
> I thought things were great between you and the missus.
> 
> Am I misreading something here, my friend, or did I miss an unfortunate new chapter in your story?


We're good.

My old lady knows I can let her go.

Don't tell her this it would be hard...but as far as she is concerned I can just let her go.

To bad Dday's old lady knows he can't let go or she would have been to scared to temp fate......I still think she wants out anyway.

She is probably scratching her head trying to figure out what it will take.

@ Dday, I hope you at least spanked her for being a bad girl?


----------



## awake1

Like many other things in life, you had to be willing to lose it to save it. 

I think though the horse is out of the barn. 

Your relationship is done. You had trust issues before, now? Forget it. 

Besides, is any woman really worth it? 

Why be second fiddle? No More Mr Nice Guy and MMSLP are books you need to read. You need guy friends to hang out with, and you need to lift weights if you don't already. 

You're placing your own feelings last in this situation, and im not sure why. But that's a question you need to answer. 

On that topic, life will continue to punish you until you put your foot down and say no more. 

So your choice is to muddle through this, go to counseling, see if she promises not to do it again and repeat the same tired record for another year or two until next time. 

Or you knuckle up and put the work in to fix yourself and your life. 

One of these options makes for the happiest possible life, the other, for the least happiest. 

Why waste the one life you have? Why not go for that potential happiness?


----------



## jim123

Dday

She is not going to change. Kudo's to for you love for the kids.

She will eventually D you or make you D her. Do not continue to allow her to humiliate you. That is what she was doing Friday. it will get worse. 

File D to protect you and the kids. Do not let her set the terms. 50% quality time with the kids is better than 100% with this going on.


----------



## Dday

jim123 said:


> Dday
> 
> She is not going to change. Kudo's to for you love for the kids.
> 
> She will eventually D you or make you D her. Do not continue to allow her to humiliate you. That is what she was doing Friday. it will get worse.
> 
> File D to protect you and the kids. Do not let her set the terms. 50% quality time with the kids is better than 100% with this going on.


Even though some of my posts seem like I'm not listening.... I am. 

I read mmslp,I tried the 180 2 years ago, she is no longer best friends with OMs sister(still works with her). We had rules/boundaries, I have access to her phone, email, Facebook. I've checked for burner phones. I've tried a VAR with no damaging information. 

We are basically done, I'm sleeping downstairs for the 3rd night. Tomorrow I will ask her plan for the kids/house etc. it is too painful for me to try to come up with a plan. This will be so tough for the kids, they have no clue. We never fight in front of them and rarely fight at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lonelyhusband321

I didn't read the whole thread, but the answer to the original question is HELL YES this should be strike three!

I can't speak for everyone, but I see no reason, no justification and no EXCUSE for what W pulled. I would throw her azz out in an instant.

Again - didn't read the whole thread, but the LAST thing you want to do is become a punching bag or a doormat!!


----------



## lonelyhusband321

manticore said:


> What kind of help you think we can give you?
> 
> The only thing we can do for you is being honest with you and give you advices that come from experience and learning from previous posters, but you have decided to ignore all of that in the past.
> 
> I read your 40 pages thread, and there were alot of good advices there of how try to fix a relationship damaged for an affair and how to enforce the boundaries that are necessary for you to begin to heal and for her to proves you she is commited, and you followed none:
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce boundaries and to request her to close her Social media softwares and apps.
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to stop any sort of communiocation with any person and friend related to the OM
> *and you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to demand her to stop GNO nad going to the parties and for drinks by herself with her "friends"
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to enforce consequences and at least give her the divorce papers to she to reconsider her past behavior from which she didn't appear to be that remorseful.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to request her to quit kick boxing when you suspected of other guy in there.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to DNA your kids because with her 2 affairs and the possibility of at least other she really seems to fit in the serial cheater category.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> - It was adviced to you to leave her when mos users found about the second affair and her past behavior with the other guy.
> *an you did not do it*
> 
> Now here we are again as many predicted, and you will not follow any advice again, because it seems that the advice you want is *"sure dude buy these pills, "Loyaline" they can make a serial cheater to become loyal and never cheat again without you moving a finger"*
> 
> the only thing besides pestering her that you seem to have done, is to follow her by her phone GPS and check her calls and messages but LOL, this is so useless, *in the first affair you caught, she already was using a burn phone to not use her main cell phone, so why would she use now her main cell phone to cheat if she can again get a burn phone like in her last affair*.
> 
> *Now let me give you not and advice but a knowladge gotten from reading thousands of cases, people who use burn phones are not naive persons caught in an affair unwillinly that when they realized they already had feelings for other person, that kind of cheaters normally use their day to day phones because the affair progress from something innocent to romance gradually, Cheaters who use burn phones are experience cheaters that were alredy thinking in how not to get caught before the affair even starts, they were covering their bases to not leave evidence even before it begins, after all a person caught in an affair without the initial intention of doing it, not wakes up as say "Hoooo I think I should bought a burn phone and request OM/OW to just contact me for that medium just in case we began an affair together" *


:iagree:

Abso - friggin - lutely!!


----------



## dental

This has been an interesting and entertaining read. Where I'm from there was a tv-program where a woman, late 40s, found a suitor at a massage clinic. She decided to bring him home to her husband and introduce him as her love interest number 2. Husband accepted. Then she invited a television crew to film this situation. Fascinating. Husband was in the kitchen drawing a tree, while she went up with number 2 to 'talk'. 

This is you, except for the fact that your WW is still a little secretive (more or less). You on the other hand, despite your 'questions' have accepted that you will, from now on, share your WW with other men, and she knows it and enjoys this situation a lot. Your passiveness is a choice with consequences. You've chosen to be a cuckold. No shame in that. If this is what it is, so be it.


----------



## Acoa

Dday said:


> Even though some of my posts seem like I'm not listening.... I am.
> 
> 
> 
> I read mmslp,I tried the 180 2 years ago, she is no longer best friends with OMs sister(still works with her). We had rules/boundaries, I have access to her phone, email, Facebook. I've checked for burner phones. I've tried a VAR with no damaging information.
> 
> 
> 
> We are basically done, I'm sleeping downstairs for the 3rd night. Tomorrow I will ask her plan for the kids/house etc. it is too painful for me to try to come up with a plan. This will be so tough for the kids, they have no clue. We never fight in front of them and rarely fight at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is difficult, but try to muster the strength to soldier on a bit more. 

Don't leave the details up to her. Once the decision to split happens you are no longer partners. She will be looking out for herself, and she has already proven to be selfish and deceitful. 

Find the best divorce lawyer in town and do a consult. They will help you plan. You want to file and control the pace and timbre of the process. You can be fair, but do what works best for your family. 

Do it fast, and file fast. Expose, let here deal with multiple lines of questioning from multiple directions at the same time you hand her papers. Her head will spin. Put her in the ropes emotionally and you'll be on equal footing. Then negotiate the settlement. Worked like a charm for me. 

I have the kids, I live in the house. She walked away with a lot of cash, but it was worth it to me.


----------



## turnera

Go see a lawyer first.

DO NOT MOVE OUT.


----------



## leon1

Sounds like she is looking to start cheating again ,its about time you start thinking about yourself,you deserve better than this ,its time she find somewhere else to live while ye divorce .Shes the serial cheater she should move out .


----------



## turnera

And that's what the lawyer is for. Get YOUR rights in writing before she starts pushing you out the door. And it sounds like that's exactly the kind of thing she would do, since she has no fear of you.


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> And that's what the lawyer is for. Get YOUR rights in writing before she starts pushing you out the door. And it sounds like that's exactly the kind of thing she would do, since she has no fear of you.


This^^^
Plus get a voice activated recorder and keep it on you.


----------



## turnera

Yes, you can expect her to become vitriolic once you show a backbone and take away her gravy train. Don't be surprised if she tries to get you arrested on domestic violence charges - keep the VAR going at ALL TIMES!


----------



## 2asdf2

Dday said:


> Even though some of my posts seem like I'm not listening.... I am.
> 
> I read mmslp,I tried the 180 2 years ago, she is no longer best friends with OMs sister(still works with her). We had rules/boundaries, I have access to her phone, email, Facebook. I've checked for burner phones. I've tried a VAR with no damaging information.
> 
> We are basically done, I'm sleeping downstairs for the 3rd night. Tomorrow *I will ask her plan* for the kids/house etc. it is *too painful* for me to try to come up with a plan. This will be so tough for the kids, they have no clue. We never fight in front of them and rarely fight at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is going to be more painful if you play possum and lie down as if dead.

Take pride in yourself and come up with *SOME *plan to offer.

This is round one of many to come. Take an aggressive stance, not a passive one.


----------



## jim123

Dday said:


> Even though some of my posts seem like I'm not listening.... I am.
> 
> I read mmslp,I tried the 180 2 years ago, she is no longer best friends with OMs sister(still works with her). We had rules/boundaries, I have access to her phone, email, Facebook. I've checked for burner phones. I've tried a VAR with no damaging information.
> 
> We are basically done, I'm sleeping downstairs for the 3rd night. Tomorrow I will ask her plan for the kids/house etc. it is too painful for me to try to come up with a plan. This will be so tough for the kids, they have no clue. We never fight in front of them and rarely fight at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dday,

You need to file, not her. Go to an attorney who specializes in Men. Ask them to recommend an IC as well.

Time to take control. Time to start to heal.


----------



## the guy

Dday said:


> Tomorrow I will ask her plan for the kids/house etc. it is too painful for me to try to come up with a plan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please, please, please change you whole thought process here!

It does not matter if its the right plan or the wrong plan but please come up with a plan!

For what it's worth come up with your own plan. Tell her what you want from her......chicks dig confident guys!

You need to suck it up and make a plan. even if you have to fake it....you must stand up and show her you will no longer be taken andvandage of.

Dust your @ss off and stop letting shyt happen......MAKE SHYT HAPPEN!!!!!

This marriage is done, but you are not!

You deserve good things...stop phucking around!

I need another 2x4 cuz OP needs another smack!



Why in the phuck are you letting this crap define you?


----------



## the guy

I have been here way to long to let you or any of you go down like this!


----------



## the guy

Phuck her and her plans!


----------



## lonelyhusband321

OP, you are getting spot on advice here.

I recently went through the hell that you're about to go through, but that's because I went through an even HOTTER hell right before that.

What you're enduring right now is demoralizing, soul-draining and just plain horrible. 

Take control, free yourself, go through the fire and THEN get on with a FAR better life!!!

It REALLY does work!!


----------



## happyman64

DDAY

Do you have any idea why your wife cheats?

Do you have any clue why she would be good for two more years and then out of the blue pull this crap and put herself in this position again?

Has your wife ever been to IC for her cheating?

Have you been to IC for your low self esteem and non confrontational ways?


Have you asked your wife if she loves you lately? Loves you enough to begin to respect you and the marriage?

And have you asked yourself if you love your wife enough to finally show her tough love and consequences for her lousy decisions?

I think you have put yourself in a position where you are constantly putting up barriers to protect yourself. And at the same time you are hyper vigilant of her actions and behavior.

That behavior will eventually kill you, wear her down and raise her resentment of you with the final action being the demise of your marriage.

When that happens your kids are left with two dysfunctional parents that no longer love each other or want to be married to each other.

You have to step back and honestly evaluate the situation as it looks today.

You have to decide if your wife even wants to be in any type of relationship with you at all.

And changes need to be made by both of you to even begin to fix your relationship whether you D, R or just coparent together.

HM


----------



## Q tip

why not kick her skank arse out. she has a choice of several OM to take her in. i am sure they'll be fighting for her....


...not


----------



## lenzi

GusPolinski said:


>


Gus your picture, while appropriate, sets a dangerous example.

Never pull a plug by the cord, it causes stress on the internal wiring and can cause a short which can lead to a fire. Always pull by the plastic plug ONLY!


----------



## Q tip

lenzi said:


> Gus your picture, while appropriate, sets a dangerous example.
> 
> Never pull a plug by the cord, it causes stress on the internal wiring and can cause a short which can lead to a fire. Always pull by the plastic plug ONLY!


knowing Gus, he's hit the circuit breaker and maybe a few power relay stations first.


----------



## lenzi

Q tip said:


> knowing Gus, he's hit the circuit breaker and maybe a few power relay stations first.


I can see why.

I wonder what his hair looks like.


----------



## GusPolinski

lenzi said:


> I can see why.
> 
> I wonder what his hair looks like.


Imagine Jared Leto...





...and then imagine John Candy in "Wagons East".


----------



## Q tip

GusPolinski said:


> Imagine Jared Leto...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and then imagine John Candy in "Wagons East".


grandpa?


----------



## Dday

After another incident of disrespect, I finally put my foot down and we will be separating/divorcing. I tried everything possible, probably too much, but the fact is she checked out 3 years ago. I was holding on to threads of what we used to have.


----------



## Dyokemm

Dday,

I'm sorry for you....I know you didn't want this at all.

You can hold your head high and know you gave your M every chance possible.

But I think this is for the best for your own sanity.

What was the incident that finally became the proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back'?


----------



## Dday

She went to dinner with her friend, one who was having a major issue where her daughter who is 19 got married to a military guy. She didn't find out until her taxes got rejected because someone else claimed her as a dependent. Crazy. Her friend was a mess and they went out. 

Of course this turns out to be a 4am night and her shutting her phone off again. No respect. After fighting and me not believing where she said she was i waited for her to fall asleep and I found a text conversation where she was talking to a friend about the OM she has been texting and went to his house last time. It definitely crossed the EA boundaries although she denies any PA. Honestly, it doesn't matter. We are done. Gotta move on.


----------



## Dyokemm

She's lying....but you are right, its time to move on since she simply won't stop cheating and disrespecting you.

Sorry....I know it sucks.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Time to act single, stop thinking about her and time to act single for yourself....look at her for time being as a roommate and take care of yourself


----------



## thummper

Well, at least you tried! Sounds like she's a lost cause. Is she showing any regret AT ALL, or does she act relieved that the end has finally come?


----------



## Jibril

Well, good for you. But words are cheap and hollow. Don't _say_ you're going to divorce: retain a lawyer and start filing. 

Don't bother explaining or crying or complaining to her. Don't bother justifying why you filed. Just file, and be done with it.


----------



## woundedwarrior

Congrats for finally crossing the line, something a lot of us would love to have the strength to do, but are still waiting?
Your life will be so much better now.
What was her reaction, did you officially tell her you were divorcing her? She may find out, like my ex did, that once the divorce is on, the excitement of cheating dies off and you're a lone.


----------



## thummper

You've given her every chance to change, and it sounds like she's just blown it off. You're more patient than me, that's for sure. If I discovered my wife at another man's house or apartment at 4 a.m., I'd have told her to just stay there and I'd make arrangements to move her things there the next day. God bless you for trying so hard.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I'd make arrangements to move her things there the next day."

Just hefty bag it and pit it on the front porch.....perfect symbolism for what you think of her behavior.


----------



## LongWalk

Your WW sounds a like an impulsive careless person who just shrugs her shoulders when things go wrong.


----------



## alte Dame

Have you told her that you are finished?


----------



## Dday

Thummper- she is upset, but like I said she is not willing to make changes to give a true R

I told her yesterday we were done and for me there is no going back. It would be so much easier if there weren't 3 little ones involved. I want to keep it cordial for them and try to work out a schedule with her for split custody. I will give her some time to figure where she is going, but will be calling a lawyer on Monday.


----------



## NosborCrop

your wife dont respect you.She thinks you will not do that.
Stand your ground


----------



## just got it 55

Dday really nothing left to say here I am sorry your at this point.

I hope you have learned from this and will stand up for yourself in future relationships in a few years.

55


----------



## Mr Blunt

Do not get involved with her in any way unless it is necessary for the D. Keep all communication with her to a bare minimum. Do not be surprised if you see her with some emotional pleas and some change; this will weaken your resolve if you let it.

All of your efforts should now be for you to get yourself ready to be single and to get stronger in every way. Your obligations are now towards yourself and your children; do not get involved with your wife even if gives you some temporary satisfaction that she wants to patch things up.* She has had many chances and she is showing you that you are not number one or even number two.
*


----------



## Vulcan2013

Stay strong. Watch out for the Hoover in 3..2..1


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
your tenacity is honorable and your kids are fortunate to have a father who would sacrifice his own self interest for their sake. They have no such mother, yet but you will find them one, in time. She will also be the wife you thought you had but never really did. This is a painful time but there are better times ahead. You and your children will be better off with a stable mother who has more concern for them than to destroy their home. Buck up and get through this painful part so you can begin to enjoy life again.

Your WW is best left to her own devices, spreading pain and heartache wherever she goes. I am very much pro reconciliation, especially where young children are involved but there comes a time when it is necessary to cut your losses and save what you have. You and the kids need stable, solid, secure and they are out there, go find one. She and your happiness awaits. Good fortune to you and your family.


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## jim123

Dday said:


> Thummper- she is upset, but like I said she is not willing to make changes to give a true R
> 
> I told her yesterday we were done and for me there is no going back. It would be so much easier if there weren't 3 little ones involved. I want to keep it cordial for them and try to work out a schedule with her for split custody. I will give her some time to figure where she is going, but will be calling a lawyer on Monday.


You have done everything you could have and more than most men would have. She is not going to change.

Work on you and move forward.


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## happyman64

:iagree:

The best advice so far.

Do this divorce for you. Fix your issues.

Build up your self esteem and find a good woman who values a committed relationship.

Your wife is selfish. she needs a good kick in the head and in her @ss.

HM


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## workindad

Embrace the opportunity to rebuild your life witHout a cheater abusing you emotionally and putting your physical health at risk. . Also, establish the example for your children of how to live, do not forget this along the way. Your focus needs to be on you and the kids first and foremost Moving forward.

Good luck, happiness post divorce is quite real- at least it has been for me.

wd


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## Dday

I guess this is the Hoover you are talking about: 

Text conversation after I talked to a lawyer today:

Me - are we going to have time to talk tonight. We have to figure this stuff out

X- I agee. I guess after the kids go to bed

Me - I talked to a lawyer today and they told me what we need to bring to them

X- so we are just going right to divorce?

M- it takes a few months. They called it a cooling down period 

X- so I'm saying that's what you want?

X- you would rather start that process than seperate and see if we can somehow have a chance and start over 

Me - you left me no choice

X- I don't know how I'm leaving you no choice when we haven't had a real conversation in person

Me- you said enough. You said you had feelings for him, you said you can't follow the "rules" in place, and you couldn't follow anymore

X- ok I understand


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## woundedwarrior

Good for you, DDay, that showed a lot of power, when she was just looking for you to retreat or cower. Way to hold your ground, I bet she is a little more scared now at what she has done.


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## Suspecting2014

Dday said:


> I guess this is the Hoover you are talking about:
> 
> Text conversation after I talked to a lawyer today:
> 
> Me - are we going to have time to talk tonight. We have to figure this stuff out
> 
> X- I agee. I guess after the kids go to bed
> 
> Me - I talked to a lawyer today and they told me what we need to bring to them
> 
> X- so we are just going right to divorce?
> 
> M- it takes a few months. They called it a cooling down period
> 
> X- so I'm saying that's what you want?
> 
> X- you would rather start that process than seperate and see if we can somehow have a chance and start over
> 
> Me - you left me no choice
> 
> X- I don't know how I'm leaving you no choice when we haven't had a real conversation in person
> 
> Me- you said enough. You said you had feelings for him, you said you can't follow the "rules" in place, and you couldn't follow anymore
> 
> X- ok I understand


Great job!!! keep doing it.

IMO next time try to avoid any concersation where you have to explain your self. A void the drama. Say thing just once and do 180.

When ever she tells you to start over, that she wants back, or any other lie, let her know that she alredy detroyed her last chance, period. No further explanation and just one time.

When ever she ask you if you want a D, just staop any texting, she alredy knows what she has done. She doesnt want it, she want you to be there for her no matter what while she explores her chances with OM.

Take care of always record any talk face to face you have with her and try to not be alone. You dont even know this woman any more and some cheater pretend that BH abused or atacked them just to justify their doings and look good in court. Be carefull.

Keep doing 180 hard and when ever you feel down or weak post. No matter is a quetion or just venting.


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## turnera

That was excellent! See, you stand up for yourself and suddenly it's YOU she wants. Whodathunkit?


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## MattMatt

Oops! All of a sudden the Lurv Boat is holed below the waterline and there are no lifeboat spaces left for your wife, seeing as the pesky unicorns have taken them all.


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## workindad

she is still hoping you will back down. Hold your ground.

Nice job.


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## jim123

Dday said:


> I guess this is the Hoover you are talking about:
> 
> Text conversation after I talked to a lawyer today:
> 
> Me - are we going to have time to talk tonight. We have to figure this stuff out
> 
> X- I agee. I guess after the kids go to bed
> 
> Me - I talked to a lawyer today and they told me what we need to bring to them
> 
> X- so we are just going right to divorce?
> 
> M- it takes a few months. They called it a cooling down period
> 
> X- so I'm saying that's what you want?
> 
> X- you would rather start that process than seperate and see if we can somehow have a chance and start over
> 
> Me - you left me no choice
> 
> X- I don't know how I'm leaving you no choice when we haven't had a real conversation in person
> 
> Me- you said enough. You said you had feelings for him, you said you can't follow the "rules" in place, and you couldn't follow anymore
> 
> X- ok I understand


Dday I know you worked so hard and it is hard to take. You are a great guy. She is a SA and needs help from a good IC. You can not help her and doing nothing will only enable her.

Do not separate as she will just use it to conduct her next A. She is not going to work on her M unless the A did not work out.

Just go straight to D. Sorry. Do not let her pin this on you as she keeps saying it is what YOU want. You have no choice.


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## Vulcan2013

turnera said:


> That was excellent! See, you stand up for yourself and suddenly it's YOU she wants. Whodathunkit?


But watch out! She only wants you when she is losing you. 

And, note the "is this what you want?" BS. no, you didn't want a divorce, she insists on not having a marriage.

Look at the materials that have been suggested. Look in particular at "frame". You are looking to let her off easy - her frame is "I'm sorry, get over it. ". Your frame should be " I'm done, and for me to ever consider R, you need to move heaven and earth, for a long time." 

Keep the D rolling, you can always withdraw it or R post-D. 

DON'T HAVE A BABY WITH THIS WOMAN FOR AT LEAST A YEAR. 

DON'T HAVE A BABY WITH THIS WOMAN FOR AT LEAST A YEAR. 

DON'T HAVE A BABY WITH THIS WOMAN FOR AT LEAST A YEAR.


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## LongWalk

Dday,

I failed to connect your moniker and old thread, which I remember very well. TAM names sometimes sound alike. Without going back to reread your old thread I can recall many details off the top of my head. You articulated the pain and confusion of dealing with the horrific conspiracy of your wife being enabled by her best friend to cheat with best friend's addict brother in that house. The lonely atmosphere of that struggle was very moving. Your tolerance of your wife continuing to work at the same daycare center tested the reader not to pull out their hair in frustration.

I admit that I nearly harassed you in your old thread, trying to get you toughen up.

Your decision to divorce seems very wise, for your wife is a recidivist. Perhaps the word incorrigible applies. There is more that speaks against her. She lacks empathy, not only for you, but your children because she has torpedoed their family life because of her emptiness.

She knows that you are a good guy. But your do not excite her sexually. Her desire is for sensation. A drug addict lover who is brother of her best friend. That is a drama beyond just sex. It is fvcking life and death. He was killing himself. She was fvcking a guy who liked to play on the edge. The abyss made her feel alive. Every orgasm was an existential battle.

I'll bet that if you had gone to OM3's place, knocked him down and dragged her out of his house, drove home without saying a word, taken her up the bedroom slapped her around a little and banged her, she would have liked it. It would have given her a rush. (I am not saying you should have done it.) Maybe you could have signed up for kick boxing and gone at it front the class against OM or your wife. I know it sounds crazy, but that is where her decisions are made, not in the frontal cortex. As she gets older, she'll likely become more selfish.

It is telling that OM's sister is no longer her best friend. They were very tight. Your wife doesn't form loving attachments that last.

In retrospect do you feel that your wife's second affair was a threesome, i.e., she was in an emotional affair with friend?

I predict your wife will go through more men in the future, maybe even a string of losers. She is a restless soul. You have given her so much stability to no avail.

Also, your quick thinking to call OM and order him to bring her home was brilliant. Did they kiss in the car on the way home? You cannot know. Why bother living with this feral partner?

Again, kudos to you for not rug sweeping. You were alert and you acted. No doubt many betrayed spouses would have taken another bite of the shyte sandwich because divorcing with young children is a world of pain and trouble. You will survive, though.

What will her former best female friend think? She'll probably smirk. Maybe her brother will come, tongue out, looking to console her.


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## LongWalk

Dday,

It was courageous of you to come back to TAM. Given the length of time you attempted R, your contribution is significant. Whenever someone is trying to judge what level of remorse is necessary, your experience could be instructive for those facing a similar situation.


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## bandit.45

She's losing her babysitter and its pissing her off.


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## LongWalk

Her thoughts and feelings are more complex. She may love Dday and see him as the most important authority figure in her life. She probably wishes she were sexually attracted to him, but she doesn't "feel it", as they say.

Maybe she thinks sex with him is okay. Maybe it's pretty good. Maybe she feels revulsion. She is not sharing her feelings. 

Her desire for OM is indisputable. It wouldn't surprize many if she had cheated on other occasions that went undetected. A kick boxing coach can meet early for a quickie. Intense sex only requires 15 minutes when it is high octane.

Will Kane, Shaggy and others spelled out the level of her deceit. Burner phone. Months of lying. Sex in Dday's home whenever Dday travelled for business. 

Once Dday extracts her from his life as much as possible and begins dating, she will be jealous. For her to actually change would require a lot of therapy. But really she's over 30. Her character is formed.

Dday is young enough to find someone new. Painful process but he gave reconciliation a good shot.


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## LongWalk

How's it going Dday?

Hope you have managed to purge the serial cheater from your life as much that is possible.


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