# when is living separately best?



## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

So I'm just wondering if it is ever best to live separately while still aiming to work on your marriage? When people say they are "separated" that to me means that they are likely moving to a divorce... correct? Or no? I'm not sure if we'll be able to repair our marriage, but for now we are both aiming for saving our marriage. But I have often wondered if I moved out and lived else where if that would be best... if anything, for my sanity. I had seriously thought about it and even brought it up in a discussion to my husband I would say after about 6 months or so of constant fighting followed by silent treatment (it's now been over a year). It was a calm discussion where I said maybe it would be best if I lived some place else for a while. He told me that he refused to pay for two houses, and I honestly can't blame him. My job could not pay for my own rent, but probably could pay for my own food and whatnot. So we live separately under the same roof; he upstairs, me downstairs. And even this combined with the fact that he travels for work doesn't seem to really work, for me at least.

So, it's starting to creep into my mind again about living separately. But I just don't know how that is possible. When I initially thought of it several months ago I had just thought of living in some small rental place nearby. Now as time has gone by I find myself wishing that I could move to the mountains by myself for a while a few hours away. Just have my own life and own city separate from him. But of course that wouldn't work for counseling, I'd have to be living nearby... so then it's like whats the point? It sure would be nice to have my own sanctuary away from him, and only interacting when we'd need to go to counseling. Plus I just don't think he fears losing me at all, he knows that I am always in his home and that I'm not going anywhere, always here to be his emotional punching bag. Even though in his anger he has told me to "get the f*** out of his house." What a dream it would be to live in the mountains for a while! It wouldn't be too impossible, but it seems in my situation yes...

But I know that it wouldn't be fair for him to pay for another place. And I need to be here for counseling. And living that far away would make it obvious that we weren't living together to other people, people that we wish to keep our marriage struggles private from for now. My friend keeps urging me to live else where for my sanity and to really make him see the impact of his emotionally abusive attitude... I don't know, I wish that my close friends lived in my state because that seems to be the only answer would be having a roommate. But I refuse to roommate it up with a stranger. If I ever had to start over on my own should we end up divorcing, I definitely wouldn't be living any where near here or this part of the country. I'd move to better possibilities for myself on all fronts. But... I need to be around here for now while we are still trying to work on things.

What do you think about all this? Did you ever choose to live separately even while working on things? And how did that work out logistically? I'm not even sure that this is best right now, I'm only entertaining it as I feel like I'm going crazy here alone and would like to runaway!


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

living separately is the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned......I've been doing it for 19 months now and there is no going back. You can't fix things if you're not together. I think you'll drift further apart and become more apathetic....my .02


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

If you cannot co-exist together one day without violence, rage or the cops called then yes its time to separate.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

How long have you been married?


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

about 7ish years


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Why not focus on improving your situation... find a better paying job, go to school to learn a trade, DO something to make yourself more self-sufficient. 

If the counseling works and you and H stay together, at least it will be because you WANT to and not because you feel trapped (btdt). And if you end up divorcing, then you will be able to stand on your own feet. Win-win.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If you live separately, there has to be a plan to work on the individual contributors to your issues.

Probably most people use separation to ease into divorce. It doesn't have to be like that.

There cannot be dating, flirting or acting single while you are separated. You are still married.

You wear your rings. You don't go out with single friends. You don't take phone numbers or give them out. 

You use the space and the time to evaluate.

It isn't a time to explore the alternatives. That is called cheating.

Is he willing to seek help for his issues?


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

SunnyT- I've already done so and completed my degree recently. It kept me busy and I miss that. The issue now is we live in a small town and there aren't a lot of opportunities. Which is what I meant by if we truly were to divorce that I wouldn't live any where around here, I'd move likely across the country to find better opportunities for myself as well as be near friends. I would never live here on my own, only here for my marriage, which would be more than enough if it were happy and stable and leading towards a subsequent family. For now I have to kind of take what I can get in the area, you know? I don't hate my job, but it's kind of boring.

clipclop2- yes we have very recently started marriage counseling. Way too early to tell where that will lead us. I feel like he has his own issues separate from our marriage but haven't been able to explore that much in counseling yet. On my end I would want what you described for a living separate situation, I would worry slightly about my husband holding up his end of the "bargain" living alone, but I guess I couldn't control that nor can I when he travels anyway. So I feel like it would just kind of come with the territory.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I don't know, I guess the more I think about it the more I realize that I am just desiring something temporary... because my thought process keeps going like this "I'd just like to get away for like 6 months!" rather than leave indefinitely. Rent some cabin in a nearby mountain town and get a little job at the local gift shop or something. Is that strange? I think I just need a change of scenery to renew my soul. I've been so drained here with him. I think I'm also used to exploring with him and taking weekend trips all over the place with him, and that completely ceased once this mess started. I miss getting away. I wonder if living away for 6 months would still be more harmful or helpful?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

sounds like 7 year itch.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

naiveonedave said:


> sounds like 7 year itch.


ha I actually thought of that as I was answering the earlier question of how many years. I'm nearly positive though that I wouldn't be feeling this way if my husband hadn't become emotionally abusive.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think most separations eventually lead to divorce. Some get back together successfully. Some get back together only to divorce awhile later. 

My personal opinion is work on the marriage together in one place. Because making a marriage work after a separation is usually hard.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Why is he emotionally abusive? Are you at anyway not meeting his needs, so he is not meeting yours? 

Basically, I am convinced that if a woman wants a separation, she is done with the M. If that is the case, jump right to D. If he is abusive for no reason, D.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

We don't live together full time. We apart most of the week; 4 days or so, depending. With no real end in sight. Maybe we'll make it a legal break maybe not. Since it's going to cost be a great deal either it's a wash, financially. But yes, you're not really going to improve anything this way. On the other hand, you're probably not going to improve anything any other way either.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

hmmm I don't want a true separation per se, I just want to not live in "his" house for awhile. I feel that he is way too comfortable knowing that I'm safely in his house at all times, ya know? He doesn't worry about losing me... words and threats are empty when I'm still here. I just don't know what will get him to realize that this is a big deal. He will understand for a small while, like literally maybe a week, then it's right back to the old ways. 

naiveonedave- I'm not really sure yet. Just a complete personality change about a year ago. Just kind of dealt with it for months as school distracted me I guess, now that I'm done and have more time to dwell on things we have literally just started counseling, so it hasn't gotten any where yet. He literally just gets mad about small things very easily, and then can't control himself no matter if I freak out back or if I calmly try to talk him down. And then the silent treatment for weeks, I've ALWAYS been the one to break it. He's just always unhappy. He's not a super open and philosophical person, so I can't really crack it.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What happened a year ago?

Is he cheating?

Are you working?

Why don't you think your husband would honor the marriage if you separated?

Does he know you would like to leave him for nobody?

Are you still in love with him?

How is your sex life?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You don't think he'll make any effort to improve the marriage while you are there.

You want to leave.

You have no great job prospects where you live, but you really want a more satisfying career.

Sounds like you've pretty much made your decision, but you're just trying to work up the courage to follow through. If that is at all true, you are less likely to do what is needed to make the marriage successful, if that is possible. Can't work on a marriage with one foot out the door, just my opinion.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

breeze- the first part is definitely correct. I feel that me remaining here has not encouraged him to change. If I wasn't married, I would move to some place where I could have a more involved career, definitely. But that is only in the face of my marriage failing, if I had a great marriage I would be perfectly happy here doing this until we had a family and then throwing myself into that.

clipclop2- nothing happened a year ago (that I'm aware of). A few years ago we moved across the country and he started a new job that has opened so many doors to him. That was a huge change, but happened way more than a year ago. Yes, I'm working. I'm not sure if he is cheating, my gut isn't making me suspect that in a huge way. Just in a small "you never know" way. I think my husband would take me living else where as the end and maybe act as such. I'm not sure. He's never really been in this house without me there. Yes, like I said in the OP, I had talked with him several months ago about maybe I should live some where else for a while, and he said he refused to pay for 2 places. Which I don't blame him. Yes, I am still in love with him, but not for present reasons. Mainly because he was not this way for many years and I loved that man dearly. His only redeeming quality right now is his job, and then his past. Our sex life is nonexistent at this point, naturally. Was great before, never fought about it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Answering the question in the subject line.

Right after you file divorce.

Separations are recipes for cheating.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Living separately is not going to save your marriage imo. You need to make a decision: stay and work on it, or go your own way.

If you decide to work on it, there are exercises in the back of this book, "Getting the love you want" by H. Hendrix, which may be very useful to you both.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So number one, put on your detective hat and find out if he is cheating.

A voice activated recorder in his car will probably give you the answer if you don't have access to his email and phone and computer.

A lot of men become detached and angry while in an affair. Women often become happier. Those are rules of thumb, not laws.

Or... Your H is into something else you don't know about that started to get troublesome for him at that time. Check financial records. Debt. Charges you don't recognize or understand. Get your credit records.

Gambling. Illicit sex. Porn. Drugs.

Are there any emotional or psychological issues in his family? 

What does he attribute his change to?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> Why is he emotionally abusive? Are you at anyway not meeting his needs, so he is not meeting yours?
> 
> Basically, I am convinced that if a woman wants a separation, she is done with the M. If that is the case, jump right to D. If he is abusive for no reason, D.


Not meeting another's needs is not an excuse for abuse.

Now that we are clear on that......

I haven't read your story OP but if your husband is abusive, it will get worse. I am so sorry that you are living in an abusive situation. If you separate, his abuse will be worse. Abuse is about control & as he feels his control of you slipping away, he will ramp up the abuse. So in your case, it will not help your marriage. No surprise that he doesn't "agree" to a separation.

Please read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. 

My only advice short of leaving him for good, is to become financially independent so you have more choices.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I get what a lot of you are saying about choosing to live separately being a push in the direction of divorce, I guess it is why I hadn't too fervently thought of it until recently really. I guess I'm not seeking a new life, but rather a break. A new life would be me moving across the country without him... for some reason, as it stands with working on the marriage, I just want a break and a change of scenery. Like a long vacation, I suppose. And also it would then mean that I would only see him when we did marriage counseling, a constructive discussion hour, and no other time. It seems trying to live a "normal" day to day life with one another is proving to be more damaging to us the majority of the time... though we did have a rather calm last 2 days since he's been home. Not amazing (sadly those don't happen this far in anymore... ) but calm, watching some tv together in the evenings and ordering pizza.

clipclop2- I do have access to 2 of his emails. I don't really have access to his phone anymore (it's always on him) but I do have access to phone records. As well as access to bank records and credit card statements. I don't know, I guess I am just so used to having little control over him as he travels often for work that that is just how it is. I'm used to knowing so little that it barely phases me anymore. Though I am curious, and slightly afraid because what if something really is occurring that could explain everything and simultaneously destroy us? Maybe I'm the perfect candidate for being fooled like that since I'm so complacent with being unaware. 

What would a voice activated recorder look like? Where would I get one? And where would I put it/can it really be undetected? My husband cleans his cars A LOT both inside and out. He is really observant. That really makes me nervous, if he were to find it not only would he be mad, but he'd probably want to breach my privacy as well. But at the same time, I'd really REALLY like to hear his conversations in his car... though I can see by the phone records that he rarely has a substantial phone conversation with anyone, actually. Just lots of texts, which really isn't unusual for him. Ugh! I don't know. The only thing I can think of would be those location detector thingers on phones that tell you where that person is. Is that an app, or already present on phones?

He actually has a pretty good relationship with his family. His father is a lot like how my husband is now, unfortunately. I've never really gotten along with his father, or rather just never really connected with him. I always thought he was a fairly terrible person, and now here my husband is exactly like him. Yet wasn't when I met him or for several years. Doesn't make any sense.

Emerald- definitely, it has gotten worse over time. So many good book suggestions that people have given me since I've been on this forum, I wonder if I could find many of them in libraries so I wouldn't have to purchase them all?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

It's simple. No children? Then split if you feel that you've drawn a bad hand in the game and only one of you is making an attempt to improve the situation.
If you have children, then you both need to consider how you are screwing up more than just the two of your lives.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You can get a VAR from Radio Shack, Walmart, Amazon, Staples... You name it.

They say get extra heavy velcro and put it on the underside of the front seat.

It is up to you on how to proceed. If you can eliminate cheating you can make a better decision. That's how I look at it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

My icon is a VAR. Hit my history for a set of instructions.

have to log but check my history.

Sony Sony Sony! Nothing else. no I dont work for Sony.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

no, no children, but I love the man I married and existed for many years until semi recently. That's why I stay I suppose. Hoping to get that man back.

And I don't know, I feel like I would want to do something less invasive first. Like maybe try to find a chance to get his phone and see who the numbers are that he is texting by comparing his contacts to the phone records. It's really not that unusual for him to be texting, though. So not really a huge red flag there. But maybe I can see who the numbers are to confirm if they are indeed his co workers/friends and brother. I think that's a start. Putting a recorder in his car seems too risky at this point.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Reverse lookup using the web records? You just need to see if any number is used a lot.

Some ppl put GFs/BFs under fake names, but if you can get the phone, go for it.

That said, if he has a phone you don't know about it won't help you. 

I do understand how you feel. I think the VAR is invasive but if there is anything with someone steady, it will save you a lot of time. If he uses hookups online he might not text one number frequently. Not saying he does! There are just different ways to cheat.

What do the credit card bills look like, esp when he is traveling? Does he visit the same area a lot? Is his demeanor different when he returns from a trip? 

Why does he think things aren't going well?


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I just went through the phone records and wrote down which numbers he had texted with at least 20 times in the last billing period, like 3 weeks. Many numbers he far exceeded that amount. I have about 10 numbers that fit that description. That in and of itself doesn't really concern me off the bat, though I am curious who they are. I tried reverse lookup, and nothing. I rarely find name information for cell phone numbers when I search them on google. I don't think he'd at this point put a number under a false name just because I have almost no opportunity to access his phone anymore, we don't even sleep in the same room anymore. It's always on him. I haven't looked at his phone probably since last summer, and he wasn't aware. I don't think he remembers that I remember his swipe code thingie. The only way I can think of getting his phone is that he falls asleep on the recliner downstairs sometimes while watching tv, as he is an early sleeper. We've been watching some tv and eating dinner together for a few days in a row now, and I usually encourage him to go up stairs to his bed when he starts to fall asleep. And here tonight I didn't encourage him and he got up on his own... rats. He leaves next week so I am all anxious about looking up these numbers before he leaves. What if I can't catch him falling asleep in the living room? Should I try quietly going upstairs while he is sleeping now? He is a pretty deep sleeper... but I don't know. Some numbers he had texted up to 100 times in 3 weeks, not a complete red flag, but definitely makes me wonder who. One has to be his brother for sure.

Credit card statements are never that unusual, just restaurant bills. And he doesn't seem to talk to anyone on the phone ever, just texts. No, mostly travels to different areas. His demeanor is never the same from trip to trip or day to day. I never know "who" I'm going to get.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

The numbers aren't very large.

Does he sync his contacts to the computer? Does he link to his car using Bluetooth? If so, start his car when he is inside and see if it links. The BT signal might be strong enough. It should sync his contacts list to the car. You can also see the call list.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I saw for his email account there is an option to sync, but he doesn't have it done. I tried clicking on it to see how simple it would be (it's yahoo) and it gave me like 3 options and I wasn't sure it that would appear on his phone or notify his contacts... but it's a possibility if I find out more about what that does. Anyways, he fell asleep in the living room... but with his phone right on his chest. I'm afraid he'll wake right up if I lift it off him, normally in the past I'd just be like "I'm just plugging it in for you, honey!" but he'd just think that was odd now haha. Maybe wait until he gets into a deeper sleep... but man, I'm tired  I got up extra early today for work.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

ok, well I have a slight update... I remembered that you have to set up a gmail account in order to set up your droid, and there his contacts were! So I begin looking up the various numbers on the 10 or so that I wrote down that he contacted a lot, and I am going through the bulk of them and they are all checking out to be names I fully recognize and I'm feeling better... then I get near the end of the list and the matched contact is listed as a single letter. That's it. That has me a bit confused. I went back and checked and that was one of the most frequently texted number. Tried googling that number once again and nothing. Then I notice he has two girls' names as contacts that I don't recognize and whose area codes are local. One is a full name and one is just a first name. Both generic names that yielded no results in google even with #, and hadn't been contacted since the last billing period started. But I've yet to check farther back. But I'm really curious who in the world those chicks are... and who this single letter initial is for a frequented contact. I honestly don't know what the next step would be. Do I just straight up ask him who these people are? I don't even know. I don't want to freak out, but I am slightly concerned now... have a knot in my stomach.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm going to be a hard ass so bear with me. 

What do you want?!? You seem like a total cake eater. You sit around "hoping" it will get better. You want your own life away but still want the security of hubby? You don't want a stranger for a roommate but you have a husband who is one? You live in the basement? Wtf! 

Your husband is a man. He will never "come around" whe you treat him with passive aggressive bs like this. March up to him and say "this sucks!!!" "We need to fix this ASAP or I'm getting the fück out of dodge!"

"I want a loving husband who meets my needs of xyz!"

Then when he try's to blame shift or excuse or whatever you say it again. Keep saying it until he either agrees to meet your needs or refuses.

Then, it's real simple, move forward or move out. 

If he does accept your needs hold him accountable every time he slips. Don't just expect him to turn into your knight in shining armor. 

The thing is, this is 50% your fault. Until you get your half fixed, he'll never fix his. Until then, you get what you deserve.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I know, and I keep posting in this thread because it has turned into something else kind of straying from the OP. I think maybe I should post my actual story in a thread and just stick with that instead of the several ones I've posted with one topic, especially like this one turning into something else. Right now I am more concerned with the texts and unknown contacts than the living situation. 

But yes, I have done much of what you describe. From one extreme to the other. From playing his games to being explicit. Trust me. I'm not shy with him. When he is gone a lot that complicates things and keeps things on constant reset. I don't want my own life away, I just want a break from the mental abuse. But I realize people don't know very much of what I've done/what he's done as I haven't really flat out told the story of "us" with all the facts so that's my fault. I guess when I came to the forum I really only had one question in mind, and didn't plan to stay! And here I am still  I'll make a more forthcoming thread sometime in the future and retire the few others I have made. But I've done far more than just hoping. Right now I'm just trying to figure out the texts thing.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Call the numbers from someone else's phone.

The single letter is concerning.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

well, there is a fairly good conclusion to this, thank God. I stayed up way too late... but long story short, I had figured out one of the female contacts on my own... it is in fact a male who has a traditionally female name and I actually have met him before but it was a while ago and completely forgot! The other female name I had no idea on my own, but had some ideas. So basically, I had to somewhat confront him. Found out it had to do with the HOA. Confirmed as truth. I said why do you have a number listed as simply "Z"? He tells me that's what they call him. I'm still sort of suspicious. I tell him it would really help me if you somehow proved who this is. So he texts them something that the response would prove who they were, and they did. I'm content with it. So basically, his phone and texting all seem to check out as nothing suspicious. Of course he could still be doing something without the aid of a phone, but the chances of that went significantly down with no evidence on phone or email. I panicked for nothing, I feel silly now.

hjk... did you have a gif attached to your message? if so it didn't show up for me. Plus I'm not sure what you mean, the majority of our days aren't violent in any way.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Adeline said:


> I don't want to freak out, but I am slightly concerned now... have a knot in my stomach.


Of course you do. Some people on TAM will get you all paranoid if you take their advice. Much advice is very sound and warranted, some is way over the top. Be careful.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Ok. So, we have eliminated an affair for the most part.

Again, how does he explain the change in behavior? It's he happy in your marriage?
I'm glad he has a good relationship with his family. Does he think what his father is like is good? How does his mom feel about her husband? In other words, might you have an ally there?

Have you exposed his behavior to anyone or are you suffering insilence? It takes a village. Call upon yours.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

clip clop, and others, I probably should have done this a while ago, but you've all been so helpful and I wanted to let you know I started a more focused thread somewhat recently. It answers a lot of your questions, so I didn't want to leave you hanging or seem that I wasn't answering the questions... it's a thread where I will try to stay within to post, look for it if you want to know more in depth. It's my most recent one, title starts with "searching..."


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