# What to do?



## Confused In Florida

So here is my story. I am 46, my girlfriend is 42. We have been together for about 31/2 years. We have a 2 year old boy together. She has 3 kids from a previous marriage. She and I bought a house together 2 years ago. Within 9 months of having our son (who was in the ICU at the hospital for 30 days), we moved into a house together. Our son was born. I bought two other houses (investment/rental property), fixed them up and rented them out. I had a great job for 13 years, the business was sold, new owner came in and cleaned house (lost my job). Found another good job 4 months later. The business was a mess, so I worked my butt off for a year getting things back on track. While doing all of this for the first year and a half since our son was born, my girlfriend was telling me we need to spend more time together, wanting more of me, etc. The whole time I am doing nothing but working my tail off, and enjoying fatherhood and being a super great dad to our boy. In my mind everything is pretty much ok between us. All I'm doing is working and being a dad. Girlfriend travels a lot (2-4) days a week, almost every week. She is drop dead gorgeous, absolutely beautiful. She keeps asking for more from me, stating that we should get married. I brush her off, because when we started dating, we both made the comment that marriage was over rated and something that neither of us wanted to do again. She keeps hinting about marriage. I blow it off, don't think its necessary. Wind the clock ahead to today. 5 weeks ago I found out she was having an affair. I saw a strange text come across her phone (I do not have access to it) but saw it come across her screen. I confronted her about it. She said it was just someone she had dinner with, and there is nothing more to it. A week after that, she got home from being gone on the road for 3 days. Looked at her phone when she was sleeping and it was OM saying how good she is in bed, etc. My world came crashing down. I confronted her with it. She couldn't really deny anything. I find out its been going on since early September, over two months now. To this day she has never really apologized and I don't think she regrets it. He has bought her 3 pairs of $200+ shoes, a $250 necklace, and a purse. 
She says she tried to tell me for over a year and half, and I wasn't there for her. She says she begged and pleaded for me. And she is pretty much right, because all I was doing was working hard and being a good dad, and I kept putting her on the back shelf. 

Some history on her. When she was married before, she had an affair with someone in New York for a couple years. When that marriage was ending, she had a few boyfriends in different cities. We met, she ended everything with all other interests (I am certain of this) and things were great with us for the first year (until our son was born and I got super busy). I keep finding a whirlwind of lies. She is still seeing OM. Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship. She says...I was dating a couple of guys when we met, and you won out over all of them. She tells me to be my best and see what happens. We started seeing a counselor two weeks ago. Thru all of this, I want to find a way to reconcile our relationship. I do love her a lot. I do not see how it is possible for our relationship to get back to where we need to, with a third party involved, there is just no way. I am not certain OM is married or not. She says he isnt. I think he is. He works in Florida during the week and goes home to Pittsburg on weekends she says to see his 2 kids. That tells me he IS still married. I have an address that I believe they live at. I have no trust in her anymore, and want to find a way to get it back. I want to try to make things work out for our family. I understand I put her on the back burner for almost 2 years, but cheating on me is not acceptable. 
Some of the difficulties we face:
1) She travels 2-4 day a week (on an airplane and out of state)
2) She usually gets back on Thursday nights. On Friday her three kids are back at our house from their dads. Of course they want her attention all thru the weekend. My busiest work days of the week are Saturday and Sunday. Come Monday the kids are back in school, Monday nights is gymnastics and tennis for them. On Tuesday they go to school and are back at their dads. She usually leaves on an airplane early Tuesday morning, and is going until Thursday night or Friday. So you can see we are having trouble finding quality time for each other. 
So.....let me have it.......the good advice the bad advice. I'm all ears. Do you think she is a serial cheater? How can I trust her again? Should I try to send info to OM's wife (if he even has one)? Let me hear it...........


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## Chaparral

The first thing to do is notify his wife.

Since she won't quit the affair, do the 180 and start separTing bank accts etc.

She's rubbing your face in it. How is that working for you?


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## Confused In Florida

I'm not certain he is married, that's the problem. How can I find out for sure?


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## Chaparral

Try googling his name. Also look at sites like spokeo.com

You can usually get info from a PI fairly cheap.


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## Confused In Florida

I have decent info on him. I know his name, and his address that he lives at in Pittsburgh. I just am not 100% sure if he is married or divorced, as my girlfriend says he is. If he is supposedly going home every weekend to Pitt, that tells me he is married. He has 2 kids.


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## IIJokerII

Confused In Florida said:


> I'm not certain he is married, that's the problem. How can I find out for sure?


Who cares if he is married, find him and tell him. It appears you got attached to a sugar mama who lured you in with the non committal but committed relationship pretense. Although having a child with her will be bittersweet the detachment will be so much simpler. You will feel hesitation to do this however so expect that but her constant need for your attention can now be attributed to either her being very needy for attention, no matter where it comes from apparently, or she wanted to solidify her foothold onto your material via a marriage. 

She failed the audition, you have your answer.


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## cool12

she sounds like a selfish serial cheater to me and i'd be drawing up D papers asap. i'm sorry this has happened to you but she's using you and blaming you at the same time. not nice. you'd be better off without her.

eta
oh yeah, you're not even married. that will make leaving her even easier


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## Yeswecan

IIJokerII said:


> Who cares if he is married, find him and tell him. It appears you got attached to a sugar mama who lured you in with the non committal but committed relationship pretense. Although having a child with her will be bittersweet the detachment will be so much simpler. You will feel hesitation to do this however so expect that but her constant need for your attention can now be attributed to either her being very needy for attention, no matter where it comes from apparently, or she wanted to solidify her foothold onto your material via a marriage.
> 
> She failed the audition, you have your answer.


:iagree:


She is a repeat offender. I do not believe this will be a health relationship...ever.


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## Yeswecan

cool12 said:


> she sounds like a selfish serial cheater to me and i'd be drawing up D papers asap. i'm sorry this has happened to you but she's using you and blaming you at the same time. not nice. you'd be better off without her.


I second the motion.


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## peacefully

People who have cheated will cheat again- it's wired into them. It is an easy exit and a way to mood alter when the going gets tough- its like a drug to them. 
What concerns me is how she blames you for her behavior. It's one thing to tell you she has been unhappy or felt neglected, it's another thing to go out to someone else.
Sounds like she wants the security of the relationship without the intimacy with you.


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## JustTired

In your OP you mentioned that she is your girlfriend. The good thing is that you don't need to get a divorce, you can simply put her cheating a$$ out.

It sounds like your GF solves her relationship problems by cheating. The fact that she brazenly told you she is not giving up the OM until you change?!? WTF?!?! You accepted this?!?! She is basically telling you that she puts more value into this OM than you.

My advice to you is to seek individual counseling. Your post screams of someone with some self worth issues. You need help sorting these feelings out. You are so dead set on fixing the relationship that you are missing the bigger picture: Your GF does not respect you & doesn't really love you.


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## BobSimmons

Be back when it gets to page 20


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## Q tip

So sorry to hear from you.

He's pretty dumb spending around $1,000 on her. She's shown she can be had cheap. So she upped her game on the road. Poor dumb OM. Contact OMW/GF and let her know.

Since you are not married keep it that way. Do not get her pregnant.
Get her and you an STD test. DNA test that kid too.

She shows no remorse as she thinks she has a right to the mating game. The fact she is ruining marriages and lives matters not to her. What a princess.

If I were you, I'd stop wasting time on a proven cheat-aholic. She won't change. She can't be fixed. She likes the taste of strange. Stay strong and next her. Find a decent woman who does not wh0re herself out at the drop of a shoe.

Man up and dump her skank a$$. 

Read up on Married Man Sex Life Primer, Athol Kay.

Added: have you considered that you're probably her stable plan B while she runs wild for something better. Rinse and repeat with the next guy, and the next one after that-- Until her beauty finally fades... and no one is interested any more. She'll be all alone with a gaggle kids and nice shoes.


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## Blossom Leigh

You guys have a mess... 

question is... where are you going to draw the lines, because she isn't going to....

You've got a child to create the right environment for... what are you going to do about it?

You've refused to marry your childs mother... why?


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## ArmyofJuan

Confused In Florida said:


> Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship.


NO! NO! NO!

You do this and you become an affair enabler and you will LOSE.

NEVER try to compete with an AP (affair partner), it's not a competition and odds are you are already a better man than him (after all, you don't date married women right?). Fix your issues but do it because you need to for yourself, not her.

There is only one way to "win" in this situation, kick her out. When she sees that you won't play her games or tolerate her disrespect she will think twice about what she is doing.

See, even if you become the perfect husband it WON'T MATTER, I know, I fell into this trap. She will see is as "too little too late" and will think you are faking just to get her back. More importantly, once the affair starts it takes a life of its own and its not simply choosing the best man, its choosing the A because its more exciting than what's at home. Competing with the OM just makes you look weak and pathetic because you are acknowledging that he is a threat to you and that you will tolerate staying with a cheater without her earning her place back. Give her to him and see what happens. Cheaters don't like being told what to do.

Think about it.


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## tonedef

I'm sorry but what a beyotch. She is very self righteous in her affair, she is blame shifting, she has no guilt whatsoever. What happens when she gets unhappy later? Run around with some other guy with a ha! Take that! Attitude? She is a cheater and cheaters have to feel empathy and remorse to change and it is apparent she does not. Find a number and see if a woman answers. Save your evidence. Thank your lucky stars you didnt marry her. I would just leave at this point. You can still work hard and be a good dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip

And don't forget to vote today and hope that she does not...


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## Acoa

Confused In Florida said:


> Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship.


Divorce papers would be a significant change. Tell her she stops seeing him immediately, or that's the change she will see. Then follow through on it.


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## Rugs

They're not married. Good. Time for a short goodby and see a lawyer about custody rights. 

I would think you could even get full custody of your don as soon as any judge sees she will expose your young son to several different men. 

There is a pattern here.


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## Tomara

You invested time in a person that isn't invested in a good relationship. She appears to be a serial cheater and they don't change their spots. Start separating your assets, get custody worked out with your little one and move on. I do agree that you should not put a relationship last because they will wither and die.


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## Confused In Florida

Blossom Leigh said:


> You guys have a mess...
> 
> question is... where are you going to draw the lines, because she isn't going to....
> 
> You've got a child to create the right environment for... what are you going to do about it?
> 
> You've refused to marry your childs mother... why?


I did not marry her because I didnt feel it was necesary. The first day we met, we were both coming out of marriages fairly recently, and we both said marriage is overratted and not always necesary. I guess I hung onto that. She changed her thoughts after we had our son and wanted to get married. I thought we might one day when our hectic lives settled down a bit. At this time I am glad we didnt do it.


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## Confused In Florida

Tomara said:


> I do agree that you should not put a relationship last because they will wither and die.


Yes this one is dying. 

I appreciate everyones comments on this mess I am in, I really do. Please keep them coming.


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## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> I did not marry her because I didnt feel it was necesary. The first day we met, we were both coming out of marriages fairly recently, and we both said marriage is overratted and not always necesary. I guess I hung onto that. She changed her thoughts after we had our son and wanted to get married. I thought we might one day when our hectic lives settled down a bit. At this time I am glad we didnt do it.


Now what..


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## happy as a clam

Q tip said:


> *Since you are not married keep it that way. Do not get her pregnant.
> 
> Get her and you an STD test. DNA test that kid too.
> 
> Man up and dump her skank a$$. *


^ ^ ^ 
THIS!

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Confused In Florida

Blossom Leigh said:


> Now what..


Now I need to figure out if I want to reconcile this relationship or walk away from it. A large part of me wants to make it work out. For us, for our children. I am concered about ever getting trust back with her, especially in her line of work (traveling across the country every week. I know there are A LOT of temptations out there, she is gorgeous, and her history is when the going gets tough, she looks for someone elses shoulder (or bed) to get on. I guess the thing that gets my attention is that she is correct, that in the past year and a half, I put her on the back shelf, focusing on work and being a great dad. I know that doesnt warrant cheating, but it certainley pushed her onto her ways. Would I still like to reconcile things at this time and one day if things get back on track get married....yes I would. I just dont know if things would ever be "right" between us?


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## ConanHub

Confused In Florida said:


> She is drop dead gorgeous, absolutely beautiful.


A sculpted piece of dog sh!t is still a smelly piece of sh!t.

She is a porcelain toilet in the mens restroom.

You only see the porcelain, not the sh!t that is smeared inside her.

How do you like cleaning up after another man while you help support her lifestyle?

Your mindset is so very wrong that you will not get anywhere until you change you!

Alpha the hell up! You are her b!tch, beta provider, plan B.


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## BobSimmons

Confused In Florida said:


> Now I need to figure out if I want to reconcile this relationship or walk away from it. A large part of me wants to make it work out. For us, for our children. I am concered about ever getting trust back with her, especially in her line of work (traveling across the country every week. I know there are A LOT of temptations out there, she is gorgeous, and her history is when the going gets tough, she looks for someone elses shoulder (or bed) to get on. I guess the thing that gets my attention is that she is correct, that in the past year and a half, I put her on the back shelf, focusing on work and being a great dad. I know that doesnt warrant cheating, but it certainley pushed her onto her ways. Would I still like to reconcile things at this time and one day if things get back on track get married....yes I would. I just dont know if things would ever be "right" between us?


Correction, make that page 100


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## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> Now I need to figure out if I want to reconcile this relationship or walk away from it. A large part of me wants to make it work out. For us, for our children. I am concered about ever getting trust back with her, especially in her line of work (traveling across the country every week. I know there are A LOT of temptations out there, she is gorgeous, and her history is when the going gets tough, she looks for someone elses shoulder (or bed) to get on. I guess the thing that gets my attention is that she is correct, that in the past year and a half, I put her on the back shelf, focusing on work and being a great dad. I know that doesnt warrant cheating, but it certainley pushed her onto her ways. Would I still like to reconcile things at this time and one day if things get back on track get married....yes I would. I just dont know if things would ever be "right" between us?


You are right. Her choice is her choice alone. Your choices did not make her make that choice. She could have chosen a different path to deal with her disappointment/pain. 



There are better choices that can be made on both sides of this deal, but she will need a serious heart/mind correction on what it means to remain committed in the tough times. It can be learned. But to tackle that with someone who is half hearted is not wise. Only pursue that if she is willing to face her demons.

I'm assuming she does not have custody of her three kids from the previous marriage? If so, why? How old are they?


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## happy as a clam

Confused In Florida said:


> A large part of me wants to make it work out. For us, *for our children*.


First, make sure the "children" are actually yours!

With that much running around on her part -- before you, WITH you -- you need to make sure the kid is yours. Leopards don't change their spots.

DNA test pronto.


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## Blossom Leigh

And STD's


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## cool12

i'm gorgeous too but i don't sleep around while my man is working his ass off to provide for me and our family. stop giving her an out. her behavior, especially flaunting the OM in your face, is disgusting and disrespectful. let her find someone else to keep her life together while she's fvcking other men. stop letting her use you.


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## Yeswecan

Confused In Florida said:


> Now I need to figure out if I want to reconcile this relationship or walk away from it. A large part of me wants to make it work out. For us, for our children. I am concered about ever getting trust back with her, especially in her line of work (traveling across the country every week. I know there are A LOT of temptations out there, she is gorgeous, and her history is when the going gets tough, she looks for someone elses shoulder (or bed) to get on. I guess the thing that gets my attention is that she is correct, that in the past year and a half, I put her on the back shelf, focusing on work and being a great dad. I know that doesnt warrant cheating, but it certainley pushed her onto her ways. Would I still like to reconcile things at this time and one day if things get back on track get married....yes I would. I just dont know if things would ever be "right" between us?



Here is the thing, you are busting your arse to make ends meet and create a good life for all involved. Being a dad to your kid. Your wife complains that you are not meeting some of her needs. She complains some more. You, oblivious, think you are doing all the right things. After all, there is instruction manual right? Ok, so instead of packing her things and advising if you do not turn this around she will move on. Instead, she finds another to meet those needs. Now she is sitting on the fence. Your are in limbo. Were am I going with this? What happens next time you are not front and center tending to her needs? Life has a habit of getting in the way sometimes. Is the significant other aware of that and willing to support until such a time you can be front and center? In this particular case, no. I would take into serious consideration and think if this woman will really be there for you when the ole sheet hits the fan and you cannot be all things to all people for a period of time.


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## Blossom Leigh

They are not married.


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## ConanHub

cool12 said:


> i'm gorgeous too but i don't sleep around while my man is working his ass off to provide for me and our family. stop giving her an out. her behavior, especially flaunting the OM in your face, is disgusting and disrespectful. let her find someone else to keep her life together while she's fvcking other men. stop letting her use you.


Preach it Cool! Gorgeous inside and out!

Character is the most beautiful trait in anyone.


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## Confused In Florida

Blossom Leigh said:


> I'm assuming she does not have custody of her three kids from the previous marriage? If so, why? How old are they?


She has shared custody of her children with her ex. Split 50/50


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## Yeswecan

Blossom Leigh said:


> They are not married.


But OP is talking R and getting married.


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## Blossom Leigh

Yeswecan said:


> ..you cannot be all things to all people for a period of time.


This is really important. 

We already know her coping choice was poor.

That may be a deal breaker already for you. 

If it is not and you are considering reconciliation, I would look at two things...

Was her expectation of you reasonable?

Was it unreasonable?

In ALL relationships it takes balance.. if it was reasonable that means there was a level of neglect from misplaced priorities, but if it was unreasonable then NOTHING will fix that except herself adjusting that expectation. 

AND... in ALL relationships NO ONE can make ANYONE 100% happy all the time. Each person has the responsibility to carry most of their own happiness on their own shoulders and not look for that wholely from their significant other. It doesn't belong on them. So was she placing too much of her happiness on you or was she reasonable with it?


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## Blossom Leigh

Yeswecan said:


> But OP is talking R and getting married.


This is true.. just wanted to keep accuracy alive.


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## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> She has shared custody of her children with her ex. Split 50/50


Who do the children live with?


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## Confused In Florida

happy as a clam said:


> First, make sure the "children" are actually yours!
> 
> With that much running around on her part -- before you, WITH you -- you need to make sure the kid is yours. Leopards don't change their spots.
> 
> DNA test pronto.


I have not had a DNA test done, but I can tell you my son looks exactly, and I mean exactly like me.


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## cool12

ConanHub said:


> Preach it Cool! Gorgeous inside and out!
> 
> 
> 
> Character is the most beautiful trait in anyone.



no doubt!
any woman can get laid. it doesn't matter wth she looks like.
but a truly gorgeous woman does not treat her man the way this cheater does. then again my man would throw my ass OUT if i behaved like her!


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## ArmyofJuan

Don't go try to blame yourself for what she did, if she was unhappy she could have simply left. Staying with you and sleeping around behind your back means she was just using you. No matter how you were there is no excuse for what she did.


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## Hicks

Serial cheater. Run for the hills.


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## happy as a clam

cool12 said:


> *i'm gorgeous too* but i don't sleep around while my man is working his ass off to provide for me and our family.


I LOVE this, cool12!!! Say it, girl!!!

I think I look pretty d*mn good for my age (49) too... although I rarely come right out and say it... 

Totally off topic... awhile back, some TAMers looked at my pic on my profile and said the pic looked like someone in their mid-30s and COULDN'T possibly be me (not sure how you can tell that from the BACK!!)... I can assure them, it's ME alright!!

:rofl:

Girl power...


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## Graywolf2

Confused In Florida said:


> Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship. She says...I was dating a couple of guys when we met, and you won out over all of them. She tells me to be my best and see what happens.


If you stay with her you will be on probation for the rest of your life. If you fail to measure up she has made it very clear that she will be justified to fool around. 

Plus she is the sole judge as to if you measured up or not. If she sees some hot guy all she needs to do is decide that you were not nice enough that week to screw him. That is no way to live. 

It’s good that you didn’t marry her. 

Even if the kid looks like you get the DNA test anyway because it’s so inexpensive and easy. The kid is so young that no one will know that you even did it. You can buy a kit at WalMart, Amazon or about any drug store. You swab the inside of your cheek and the kid’s with a Q-tip and send it off to a lab with $130 more.


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## lucy999

DTMFA!!!!!!! The way she's using you is really gross.


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## rrrbbbttt

Originally Posted by Confused In Florida View Post 
Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship.

The movie "Animal House" flashed in my mind as I read this with the scene of Kevin Bacon saying "Thank you sir, may I have another".


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## Blossom Leigh

rrrbbbttt said:


> Originally Posted by Confused In Florida View Post
> Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship.
> 
> The movie "Animal House" flashed in my mind as I read this with the scene of Kevin Bacon saying "Thank you sir, may I have another".


By the way OP, that is emotional blackmail....

Unkind.

If it were me I would tell her "I am not inclined to engage in changes while you emotionally blackmail me into compliance, that is not the way relationships work."


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## Yeswecan

Blossom Leigh said:


> By the way OP, that is emotional blackmail....
> 
> Unkind.
> 
> If it were me I would tell her "I am not inclined to engage in changes while you emotionally blackmail me into compliance, that is not the way relationships work."


And say it just like that! Do not waver.


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## Confused In Florida

Yeswecan said:


> Ok, so instead of packing her things and advising if you do not turn this around she will move on.


That is my problem right there......she DID say I needed to turn things around or she would leave. She told me that numerous times. Like you said I was oblivious to exactly how bad things were in her world, because I thought I WAS doing the right thing by working hard and being a great dad. So to a certain degree I brought this on myself. Again I dont think its right to cheat, but I kept brushing her off and putting her on the back shelf. That is why I continue to kick myself for how everything transpired. Its a mess.


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## bandit.45

Nothing you did gave her the right to cheat. 

Nothing. 

Do you understand that? You tell her that when you hand her the divorce petition.


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## Blossom Leigh

They are not married.. he doesn't have the "divorce" papers tool in his belt.


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## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> That is my problem right there......she DID say I needed to turn things around or she would leave. She told me that numerous times. Like you said I was oblivious to exactly how bad things were in her world, because I thought I WAS doing the right thing by working hard and being a great dad. So to a certain degree I brought this on myself. Again I dont think its right to cheat, but I kept brushing her off and putting her on the back shelf. That is why I continue to kick myself for how everything transpired. Its a mess.


What was her expectation? More balance?


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## thebadguy

How does custody work when you aren't married to begin with? If you're a good dad and she travels a ton, does that mean you are the primary care giver?


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## ButtPunch

GTFO now!

RUN!


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## TRy

Confused In Florida said:


> That is my problem right there......she DID say I needed to turn things around or she would leave. She told me that numerous times. Like you said I was oblivious to exactly how bad things were in her world, because I thought I WAS doing the right thing by working hard and being a great dad. So to a certain degree I brought this on myself. Again I dont think its right to cheat, but I kept brushing her off and putting her on the back shelf. That is why I continue to kick myself for how everything transpired. Its a mess.


 Stop kicking yourself. She cheated for a long time on her last husband. She is a serial cheater. As a human no one is perfect, yet cheaters try to hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. They do this because they want you to fail so that they can blame you when you catch them cheating. Stop buying into this bull. If she did not want to stay in the relationship, all she had to do was leave. Cheating is not an option that non-cheaters do. She is an unremorseful serial cheater that has no moral compass. Stop letting her lead the way as to what you should be doing to earn her back.

Please understand, now that she is still seeing her affair partner and in your face cheating, you no longer are a couple. Since she has threatened to leave you if you do not shape up as she continues to see her affair partner, take the initiative and tell her to leave. Tell her that you will now date as she is dating and will determine if you can find a person that knows what it means to be faithful. Tell her that you did not marry her because you needed more time to learn to trust her since she cheated on her last husband, and that you are now glad that you did not marry her, because now she does not get alimony and 1/2 of your stuff.


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## Lone Wolf

Get out now, OP. I sympathize with you. I am still struggling myself and while my situation was not exactly like yours, it had similar aspects. I was working my tail off providing for my family and my WW decided to cheat on me, denying she was with anyone until I found proof later than cannot be denied. I was stupid enough to plead with her and taking blame for her cheating and her weaknesses. It was very painful for me and some days, it still is. Leave quick, do not plead with her, do not accept any blame for her weakness and her cheating. She will always find fault with you no matter what. You are a good man. None of us are perfect, but it does not justify stabbing you in the back. Do mot go down the painful road so many of us have been through.


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## Lone Wolf

Minor correction, tell her to leave. But get out of the relationship asap.


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## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> They are not married.. he doesn't have the "divorce" papers tool in his belt.


He he... Guess I'm in the slow lane. 

Okay, he hands her back her toothbrush?


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## Yeswecan

Confused In Florida said:


> That is my problem right there......she DID say I needed to turn things around or she would leave. She told me that numerous times. Like you said I was oblivious to exactly how bad things were in her world, because I thought I WAS doing the right thing by working hard and being a great dad. So to a certain degree I brought this on myself. Again I dont think its right to cheat, but I kept brushing her off and putting her on the back shelf. That is why I continue to kick myself for how everything transpired. Its a mess.


Sir, I was like you. Work, work, work and more work. Great dad, period. W has stated in the past she wanted more affection. My work and providing for all, to me, was affection. Here is the difference, my W decided that I was who I was and accepted me for me. She looked for the good in me. She did not look for another. 
Yes, it is a mess and I did turn myself around. I kicked my self in the arse. We are full circle now with romance, finance and daddy duties. Thankfully I did not have to contend with some a-hole the picture. That is something you will have to find in yourself to content with. For me...deal breaker.


----------



## Forest

Graywolf2 said:


> If you stay with her you will be on probation for the rest of your life. If you fail to measure up she has made it very clear that she will be justified to fool around.
> 
> Plus she is the sole judge as to if you measured up or not. If she sees some hot guy all she needs to do is decide that you were not nice enough that week to screw him. That is no way to live.


This is so right.

She's wiping her feet on you. Has no regard for you at all. Its terrible that your son has to grow up with this for a mother.

Hopefully, with her traveling, and generally selfish nature, you will be the primary parent.


----------



## wmn1

So here is my story. I am 46, my girlfriend is 42. We have been together for about 31/2 years. We have a 2 year old boy together.



****** I hate when I see this and hate when it's suggested but it is necessary at times. Are you sure it's your child ??? Dna test time. The only thing keeping you attached to her is the child since you were wise enough not to marry her. If the child is not yours, there is no attachment (see local laws on this to verify). If the child is yours, then you are facing the prospect of child support, fighting for custody or enduring a relationship for a long time with someone who has no moral or ethical characteristics.









She has 3 kids from a previous marriage. She and I bought a house together 2 years ago. Within 9 months of having our son (who was in the ICU at the hospital for 30 days), we moved into a house together. Our son was born. I bought two other houses (investment/rental property), fixed them up and rented them out. I had a great job for 13 years, the business was sold, new owner came in and cleaned house (lost my job). Found another good job 4 months later. The business was a mess, so I worked my butt off for a year getting things back on track. While doing all of this for the first year and a half since our son was born, my girlfriend was telling me we need to spend more time together, wanting more of me, etc. The whole time I am doing nothing but working my tail off, and enjoying fatherhood and being a super great dad to our boy.







***** being a father should mean something to her but obviously it doesn't. Being financially secure should as well. Rebuilding a business is time consuming and should be tolerated.

You tolerate her travels, she can't tolerate your hours in building a business ??? Sounds hypocritical to me. Further, you are raising her kids (notice as I said hers) so she is gone 2-4 days and consuming herself with someone else's kids for 2-3 days. Sounds like it's her who has no time for you ??





In my mind everything is pretty much ok between us. All I'm doing is working and being a dad. Girlfriend travels a lot (2-4) days a week, almost every week. She is drop dead gorgeous, absolutely beautiful. She keeps asking for more from me, stating that we should get married. I brush her off, because when we started dating, we both made the comment that marriage was over rated and something that neither of us wanted to do again. She keeps hinting about marriage.





***** So why the change in her ??? Is she trying to lock you into something ?





I blow it off, don't think its necessary. Wind the clock ahead to today. 5 weeks ago I found out she was having an affair. I saw a strange text come across her phone (I do not have access to it) but saw it come across her screen. I confronted her about it. She said it was just someone she had dinner with, and there is nothing more to it. A week after that, she got home from being gone on the road for 3 days. Looked at her phone when she was sleeping and it was OM saying how good she is in bed, etc. My world came crashing down. I confronted her with it. She couldn't really deny anything. I find out its been going on since early September, over two months now. To this day she has never really apologized and I don't think she regrets it. He has bought her 3 pairs of $200+ shoes, a $250 necklace, and a purse.

She says she tried to tell me for over a year and half, and I wasn't there for her. She says she begged and pleaded for me. And she is pretty much right, because all I was doing was working hard and being a good dad, and I kept putting her on the back shelf.







***** Some here will try to blame you for this, it is her who stepped out and it was also her gone half the time and cheating on you for who knows how long..





Some history on her. When she was married before, she had an affair with someone in New York for a couple years. When that marriage was ending, she had a few boyfriends in different cities. We met, she ended everything with all other interests (I am certain of this) and things were great with us for the first year (until our son was born and I got super busy). I keep finding a whirlwind of lies. She is still seeing OM. Says she is not going to quit seeing him until she sees a change in me and how I am in regards to her and our relationship. She says...I was dating a couple of guys when we met, and you won out over all of them. She tells me to be my best and see what happens.









***** You share a house and a child. She has got you by the balls but at least you are not married. Do a 180, seek legal advice and discharge this relationship asap. She is an unremorseful cheat and is blackmailing you.





I have no trust in her anymore, and want to find a way to get it back.





**** :scratchhead:





I want to try to make things work out for our family. I understand I put her on the back burner for almost 2 years, but cheating on me is not acceptable.







***** No it's not









So.....let me have it.......the good advice the bad advice. I'm all ears. Do you think she is a serial cheater?







****** yes and a spoiled one at that





How can I trust her again?







***** No





Should I try to send info to OM's wife (if he even has one)? Let me hear it...........







***** Yes


----------



## Hardtohandle

OP

You can NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER fix this with this other man in the picture.. 

Your GF is literally pitting you against him.. She is literally looking to see which one will fight over her more.. Or at least you..

Yes I understand what you are saying about the mistakes you think you made and that she was giving you hints.. But sadly nothing excuses what she did.. She is an adult for christ sakes..

How about Hey babe, I have an issue here.. I understand your working hard for us and the family, but I need your time as well.. 

And not what she did..

Trust me as I went through this as well and I can tell you with clear certainty that you cannot fix this with this man in the picture. Add in that she travels and you can never be secure that she will not or never see him.. 

Again, trust me when I tell you at ground zero it is hard to make any sense of this.. Once you are at the 20,000 foot mark you will see that her telling you she will not break it off with him until you change is something extremely disgusting and awful of her. How can you love someone and tell them that.. 

The simple answers is you can't.. 

She is basically a person that cannot be alone.. She is like a monkey swinging from one branch to another.. She will not let go of one before grabbing onto the next one.. You my friend are that branch she is looking to let go..

Sadly as has been told 1000x before you.. You have to be willing to let it go to save it..

You need to make her understand that you cannot do anything or are willing to do anything with this man in the picture and that you will not compete for her love.. If she even loves you..

Trying to scare this man off will do nothing for you with this woman, because she will just pursue him and reach out to him again.. And even if you scare him off there will be someone else.. She has already told you that in no uncertain terms.. With her saying she will not leave him unless you change..

You're being held hostage and that is not a way to be in a relationship..

So you change, what is stopping her from asking the same request from this other man ? Look my current BF has 3 aces.. What cards can you put on the table that beats 3 aces ?.. 

She needs to see and understand that there is more to you then this.. That you deserve more than this as well. 

I would express to her if she cannot drop him to work this out with you alone then your done and move on..

You cannot compromise on something like this.. She will just keep blaming you and telling you to change every time you catch her..


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> He he... Guess I'm in the slow lane.
> 
> Okay, he hands her back her toothbrush?


Yep, along with her teddy bear and footie pj's. 

She doesn't get to bring them back over til she drops other men as a weapon.


----------



## Jibril

Confused In Florida

Here's the rub when it comes to reconciliation: It only works if BOTH parties want it. It is very obvious by her behavior and continued affair going forward, that she has no intention of reconciling with you.

She doesn't care. She has moved on to her new lover, and could care less how you feel about it. You don't factor into her decision or new life. Only IF you are more appealing to her than her lover (whatever the hell that means) will she give you a chance. BUT, she is still seeing her lover in the meantime, and isn't paying attention to you anymore. 

Do you understand how illogical her conditions are?

She doesn't care about reconciliation, unless you go out of her way to give her what she wants. She can utterly disrespect and neglect you, all the while, by cheating on you and turning her back to your relationship. She "wants" you to change, but she's too busy with her lover to look over to you and see it. Stop pouting about reconciling, because it is clearly not worth it. You'd sell your pride and soul as a man for a chance to keep the relationship? Despite you yourself admitting that the relationship will NEVER be the same now because of her cheating?

Look, dude. She's hot. We get it. But she cheated on her last husband repeatedly, and cheated on a number of other men to strike up her relationship with you. _What did you expect from her_? Really? Why would you _think_ she wouldn't do the same thing to you?

Your girlfriend is broken. Not the type of broken you can fix: she's the garbage kind of broken that goes straight in the trash. You're willing to jump through all these hoops to get the attention of a cheating and broken woman, when there is no shortage of worthwhile woman out there. I don't understand, man. Is she the first physically attractive woman you've dated? Do you have some inferiority complex? 

My advice to you is to dump her like hot garbage. Get your child DNA tested. REMEMBER: She is a lying cheater. Damn what your "heart" tells you, you don't know anything about her degenerate activities when she goes out of town. She may have been cheating on you for a lot longer than you know, or she's willing to admit.

DNA the boy. If he's yours, go to a lawyer and figure out how you'll handle custody. Make your girlfriend an EX as soon as possible.


----------



## lucy999

Yeswecan said:


> My work and providing for all, to me, was affection.


^^^This. OP, your story has bothered me all day. Your GF has some big cajones, making ultimatums that are unattainable. 

I've had past relationships where my BF didn't have a good work ethic. What I would've given to have someone as hard-working as you. I would've done everything I could, even with my FT job, to make your life as comfortable as possible since you have worked so hard for your family. You would've heard nary a peep from me about spending time with me. You can't be in two places at once. What you have done is quite admirable. 

There are scores of women who would love to be in your company. Women who respect you and who would love you just the way you are.

She's a selfish sugar baby and you're dying on the vine more each day. 

I hope you aren't having sex with her. If so, wrap up that rascal because, ew.


----------



## TRy

Confused In Florida said:


> He has bought her 3 pairs of $200+ shoes, a $250 necklace, and a purse.


 In that same amount of time that he was buying her this fun stuff, how much more time and money did you spend on boring stuff to feed and put a roof over the head of her and her children? What you give blows what the other man gave her away, as it is not even close, but to her what you give accounts for nothing because she takes you for granted.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

From your wife's prospective, she is letting two men compete for her affection, and the winner who does the most for her wins! Sounds very loving. What happens if you become the person she wants, and she still chooses someone else? Change into the person you want to become, not her. What future advice can you give to your child? Well, if someone doesn't like you. become the person they want you to become. 

Become a better you for you and perhaps your child too. Relationships will come and go. You have to take away the idea of life long, and forever. Perhaps you'll die early and she will have to move on or the other way around. You have to be happy independently before you should be in a relationship. 

So take the time to improve yourself with no goal of getting back together, and don't look at the long view of possibilities. She may come and go, just like you may leave also. 

Maybe after this experience, you'll look at the hurt she caused you and you might not be able to get beyond it. That is why detachment is needed. It clears the bonding hormones and lets us take a clearer picture of the reality before us. That is why the main focus should be on you, and for all purposes your relationship is over. Relationships need reciprocal emotions and needs. 

So while your improving, she is devolving. She is resentful, probably needs help with letting go, anger issues, and she is boinking another man while yyou jump through hoops.


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## Yeswecan

At the end of the day her running history concerning relationships is nothing short of abysmal. She is damaged goods and there is no fixing her. You can be all you can be. Shower her with gifts. Be that guy for her and it may not amount to a hill of beans. She could still walk or just cake eat all day. You deserve better sir. There are many that would be a team player and not another child to look after assuring her hand is not in the cookie jar. Currently with the work schedule of hers what exactly would change for you if you walked? Not much but one less obstacle to finding happiness is out of the way.

She does not appear to be worth the effort.


----------



## Sports Fan

So let me get this right. She cheats while your out working your arse off trying to provide for her and your family, then she gets caught and its your fault.

Buddy it is never your fault. If she was so unhappy she should of left just like she was threatning too.

Instead she decided to stay and cheat, on the person who has been working so hard to support her. This is never alright. Unfortunately you have let her foul behavour slide with your rugsweeping of her actions that it has come to this. 

Unless you show some real strength and decisive action in enforcing consequences for her foul behavour this will happen again and you are install for a lot more heartache.


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## sidney2718

I agree with the general sentiments here. Your relationship is over.

But there is a lesson you can learn from this. When a woman tells you that she wants you to spend more time with her, listen to her. Her problem may simply be that she needs more attention than you are able to give.


----------



## 6301

Confused In Florida said:


> I'm not certain he is married, that's the problem. How can I find out for sure?


 Who cares! Your problem is with her not him. Deal with her first and then you can deal with his ass later. 

Look. It boils down to something like this. She's cheating and telling you "tough $h!t, I'm not stopping until YOU BECOME WHAT SHE WANTS YOU TO BE! 

What's wrong with this picture? She's the one cheating and she wants you to change. You want to change? The only thing you should change is her living arrangements. 

Pack her crap up and tell her to move in with him and if you want her back tell her that she needs to make big time changes before you'll consider it.

Look friend, from what you have described about her, her track record ain't real good so you had to know that she has a problem staying on the straight and narrow.

Now you know and it's time she gets a dose of reality and your the only one that can do it so stop dancing around, get your act together and hand her back the garbage she hung around your neck and let her deal with it.


----------



## Q tip

That kid looks like you and probably 5 other guys that look like you that you don't know about. 

Get real with your life man. 

And a DNA test. Stop talking to walls, grow a pair and dump her. Or are you as broken as her...?

Btw. I am drop dead gorgeous and even more talented than her - I don't cheat. I'm a catch, she's not.

You stick with her, You will be (are) a c&&&hold (that's a birdie)


----------



## thummper

ConanHub said:


> *A sculpted piece of dog sh!t is still a smelly piece of sh!t.
> 
> She is a porcelain toilet in the mens restroom.
> 
> You only see the porcelain, not the sh!t that is smeared inside her.
> 
> How do you like cleaning up after another man while you help support her lifestyle?*
> Your mindset is so very wrong that you will not get anywhere until you change you!
> 
> Alpha the hell up! You are her b!tch, beta provider, plan B.


:iagree: Nasty observation, but well put, Conan, well put! Since you're not married, OP, get the custody issues worked out legally, and then get the hell out of there. It really doesn't sound like she's the slightest bit interested in reconciling, so why try?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Thanks Conan for that mental picture. It made me laugh. Lol, he is holding onto something that he no longer has. The people that are grounded come to this realization faster than people who are not. He isn't stable enough to grasp this idea. He doesn't value himself enough, that is why he is floundering. 

He is too broken to see it now. But, once he is mentally exhausted, and slams himself against a brick wall enough, he will eventually just give up. A grounded person wouldn't even bother. 

Case in point, my cousin got cheated on by his fiancee, and they had a child together. He simply just left, became a stable role model for his son. He found someone else in 3 months and now they have been married for the last 10 years. He found another stable person, who learn to communicate with each other.


----------



## Confused In Florida

Well first of all, thank you to all who have chimed in here. I really appreciate it. You all have confirmed many of my thoughts of what I need to do. Last night, the straw finally broke the camels back. She sent me a text message that is probably the most disrespectful, cold, non loving, selfish, all for the wrong reasons.......word for word (except for names) this is what it was.....

"In the past 3.5 years you have taught me to not assume things. If you want me to break if off with (other man) and tried to make things right then here's my proposal:
I want a backyard with the pool, hot tub and fire pit that I design. I want to be on one of the rental house titles you have. I want the profit from all your rental houses to go towards our house bills. I want a vacation each quarter with just you and I. I want French doors and sliding glass doors to the outside from the living room. I want access to all of your banking information from all your accounts".


How pathetic is that! I'm done. I am making plans to move out. Both of our names are on the title of the house, but the mortgage is in her name. I dont want to stay in the house. Its too big for just me and my boy. I will leave and she is stuck with the large mortgage and house. I will get myself and my son into a nice situation and get my life back on track. I deserve better and someone who loves me for me, and who I am, and what I have to offer, and just not my money. She can have that piece of crap guy as they deserve each other. Does anybody know anything about custody of a child when the parents are not married. I need to contact a lawyer and get that ball rolling as well I guess. I have had enough, the camels back is broken, as well as this realtionship. Reality will hit her when she comes home in the next week or two from work on the road and myself, my son and everything in our house that is mine is gone.


----------



## thummper

Good for you, confused. I don't think you'll ever be sorry you took this step. Your "wife" is on another planet. Good luck for your future.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

OMG.. that is sick. 

Yep, cut this one loose. 

Lawyer up regarding your child. 

So sorry....

Oh, and stay away from women who can be bought...


----------



## turnera

Wow. You dodged a bullet. Good job moving on.


----------



## cool12

how pathetic. i actually laughed at loud at the french doors part. you are so much better off without that. next time - gorgeous inside too 

and start carrying a VAR at all times and document everything. good luck to you.


----------



## Q tip

Entitled evil creature. 

When she's old, ugly and alone, she still won't realize she wasted her life.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

LOL wow


Confused In Florida said:


> "In the past 3.5 years you have taught me to not assume things. If you want me to break if off with (other man) and tried to make things right then here's my proposal:
> I want a backyard with the pool, hot tub and fire pit that I design. I want to be on one of the rental house titles you have. I want the profit from all your rental houses to go towards our house bills. I want a vacation each quarter with just you and I. I want French doors and sliding glass doors to the outside from the living room. I want access to all of your banking information from all your accounts".


Tell her "All I can offer is my foot up your ass, take it or leave it."

Her audacity is amazing. She must think her Vajay-jay is made of solid gold lol.


----------



## tom67

Talk about entitled princess...geez.
And yes you dodged a bullet.


----------



## Confused In Florida

tom67 said:


> Talk about entitled princess...geez.
> And yes you dodged a bullet.


Yes, not one mention from her about getting our relationship back on track and going in the right direction first, before the pool and all the other materialistic items. She stated that she wants guarantees and that she is not doing anything on the assumption that something will happen and that all this is just to show that we are really partners. Ha....she wants to be sure we are partners when she is out boinking another dude, makes a lot of sense to me, not! :scratchhead: She said she gave up her dreams because I didnt think it was important to get married and she isnt going to do it again (work on our relationship) without being certain. It is utterly amazing to me how she thinks/thought we could improve our relationship while continuing her affair with the other guy. She wants her cake and to eat it too. Now she can just have her cake, because it doenst work that way.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Thank goodness she sowed this side of her before you seriously entangled your finances.

I really cant belive she texted you that. She must think she has you because of your son.

Find a place and quietly move out , consult a lawyer and count yourself lucky.


----------



## Confused In Florida

SamuraiJack said:


> Thank goodness she sowed this side of her before you seriously entangled your finances.
> 
> I really cant belive she texted you that. She must think she has you because of your son.
> 
> Find a place and quietly move out , consult a lawyer and count yourself lucky.


That is exactly what she thinks...that I wont move out. She knows how much my son means to me and how much the thought of only putting him to bed 3 or 4 nights a week now, and only waking up with him 3 or 4 mornings a week is going to kill me. She thought I would stay no matter how bad it got just because of him. Unfortunatley the hardest thing thru all of this will be the missed days away from him. But in the end it is probably best for all parties.


----------



## bandit.45

Run


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> That is exactly what she thinks...that I wont move out. She knows how much my son means to me and how much the thought of only putting him to bed 3 or 4 nights a week now, and only waking up with him 3 or 4 mornings a week is going to kill me. She thought I would stay no matter how bad it got just because of him. Unfortunatley the hardest thing thru all of this will be the missed days away from him. But in the end it is probably best for all parties.


This is the heart breaking part... is your son.

But, there is no question her selfishness totally puts her in the camp of unreasonable expectations. You cannot give even reasonable effort into unreasonable expectations. Will never work.


----------



## lucy999

cool12 said:


> how pathetic. i actually laughed at loud at the french doors part.


I did too. And the part about the pool. I'm gobsmacked at that text. 

OP, GOOD FOR YOU! And your son. Shake it off and move onto a much better life. It awaits you.

I'm _still_ bothered by your situation. This morning I thought that if you don't leave her, you will never find happiness and a woman who is worthy of you. Because women who are worthy of you do not mess with men in relationships. So you'd never get tapped into that demographic and that would be unfortunate.

However, happily that will not be the case!!!!!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## turnera

Don't move out until you work it out with your lawyer. In some states that constitutes abandonment.

Oh, and have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? It sounds like you might need to, if she grew to believe she'd get away with this.


----------



## IIJokerII

Dude, you still here???? Page 6?!! She failed the audition, lied on her resume and is outside pounding the door to get a job that she feels you should be begging her for? Yes, you'll have to split time with the child and believe me it does suck but after a while it will become the norm, however sad that may be it is invariably the truth. 

In time though she may just not want to burden herself with a dependent she was unable to sap more out of and let you take the child or do actions that force you to take actions against her behavior to allow for her to remain a "Victim". Yes, people do suck. 

So ignore the texts, the calls, and whatever else she attempts to hook since she likes to obviously play catch and release. Swim away. You got this.


----------



## thummper

I wonder how her attitude will change (assuming it does) when she discovers how serious you are about ending the charade and moving on? Be sure she understands that you're not buying the attitude she's selling. Good luck, brother.


----------



## Vulcan2013

Wow. She was demanding to be rewarded for cheating. Next...

With her traveling, she may not get primary custody and end up paying you child support. Lawyer up.


----------



## tom67

Vulcan2013 said:


> Wow. She was demanding to be rewarded for cheating. Next...
> 
> With her traveling, she may not get primary custody and end up paying you child support. Lawyer up.


:iagree::iagree:
Go see some lawyers asap.


----------



## Yeswecan

Confused In Florida said:


> Well first of all, thank you to all who have chimed in here. I really appreciate it. You all have confirmed many of my thoughts of what I need to do. Last night, the straw finally broke the camels back. She sent me a text message that is probably the most disrespectful, cold, non loving, selfish, all for the wrong reasons.......word for word (except for names) this is what it was.....
> 
> "In the past 3.5 years you have taught me to not assume things. If you want me to break if off with (other man) and tried to make things right then here's my proposal:
> I want a backyard with the pool, hot tub and fire pit that I design. I want to be on one of the rental house titles you have. I want the profit from all your rental houses to go towards our house bills. I want a vacation each quarter with just you and I. I want French doors and sliding glass doors to the outside from the living room. I want access to all of your banking information from all your accounts".
> *What, is the a friggin business deal? What colossal gall! Can I say GOLD DIGGER here? *
> 
> How pathetic is that! I'm done. I am making plans to move out. Both of our names are on the title of the house, but the mortgage is in her name. I dont want to stay in the house. Its too big for just me and my boy. I will leave and she is stuck with the large mortgage and house. I will get myself and my son into a nice situation and get my life back on track. I deserve better and someone who loves me for me, and who I am, and what I have to offer, and just not my money. She can have that piece of crap guy as they deserve each other. Does anybody know anything about custody of a child when the parents are not married. I need to contact a lawyer and get that ball rolling as well I guess. I have had enough, the camels back is broken, as well as this realtionship. Reality will hit her when she comes home in the next week or two from work on the road and myself, my son and everything in our house that is mine is gone.


*RUN man just RUN! *

One more thing, respond if you can. "Sure thing. I want a iron clad prenup(undisputable) that plainly and without a doubt states, in the event of a D, you(she) gets only the shirt on her back she came with. 

That should go over like a lead balloon.


----------



## wmn1

good for you my man. My thoughts are that she will just find some other guy to support her golddigging ways. At least it won't be you and yes, get an attorney immediately, one who is very aggressive


----------



## TRy

wmn1 said:


> good for you my man. My thoughts are that she will just find some other guy to support her golddigging ways. At least it won't be you and yes, get an attorney immediately, one who is very aggressive


 Actually, after her divorce from her last husband, the OP was the next guy on her list of "some other guy to support her golddigging ways". She will find another, and then another, having children with each of them along the way so as to tie them financially to her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

TRy said:


> Actually, after her divorce from her last husband, the OP was the next guy on her list of "some other guy to support her golddigging ways". She will find another, and then another, having children with each of them along the way so as to tie them financially to her.


I agree... I know a woman like this.. she just finished with her third man (that I know of) and four or five kids already... all the guys are top earners, one of them works with us, that's how I know about her. I cut the check from him that goes to her every month... oh and interesting thing.... they never married either.


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> Don't move out until you work it out with your lawyer. In some states that constitutes abandonment.


 Since he is not married to her, and since he plans to take his son with him when he moves while she is working out of town, it would not constitute abandonment. The fact that she works out of town a few days every week, makes him taking his son with him when he moves logical, because if they split she will need the OP to take the son when she is working out of town even after he moves out. The main question an attorney needs to help him with is, how much she gets the son when she is in town, and who has primary custody.

The OP needs to talk to an attorney, and move without warning her. Her extortion email where she admits to the other man, will not sit well with the judge when he determines custody, as he will see that the OP had no logic choice but to move.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> I agree... I know a woman like this.. she just finished with her third man (that I know of) and four or five kids already... all the guys are top earners, one of them works with us, that's how I know about her. I cut the check from him that goes to her every month... oh and interesting thing.... they never married either.


Ummm and now that I think about it, she lives in Florida...

is your GF blonde or brunette?


----------



## badmemory

As I was catching up on this thread, I'm thinking; I wonder how long it will take this guy to realize he's allowed himself to be a door mat. I'm glad it happened sooner than later OP. This cheater is one of the worst I've read about in a while. The woman is poison.

If you've not had the break up conversation with her yet, you've got a multitude of fine choices. But remember, no matter which way you choose to deliver it, she deserves no less than a "Gone with the Wind" type exit from you.

Here's one for your consideration:

"GF. I understand your frustration of wanting to get married, especially with us having a child. I was beginning to think that perhaps we should consider it. So I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart, for showing me who you are before I agreed; especially since I stupidly ignored the warning sign of your prior cheating. You'll be hearing from my attorney regarding custody arrangements. Otherwise, let's limit future conversations to only what's necessary for that and property division. Goodbye, good luck, and I hope your new BF realizes what he's getting sooner than I did".


----------



## Q tip

How about...

GF, 

I realize that when you marry 4 or 5 more guys, your alimony will be enough to retire large and do sex full time. So sorry your blackmailing tactics don't work on real men. Please target and suckup the beta orbiters for maximum return on your investment strategy. Us alphas see you as broken junk. Watch the mirror as you age beyond your expiration date.

.


----------



## Yeswecan

Blossom Leigh said:


> Ummm and now that I think about it, she lives in Florida...
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> NAILED IT. SHE IS PLAYING THE FLORIDA GAME!


----------



## Confused In Florida

Blossom Leigh said:


> Ummm and now that I think about it, she lives in Florida...
> 
> is your GF blonde or brunette?


She is blonde


----------



## TRy

badmemory said:


> Here's one for your consideration:
> 
> "GF. I understand your frustration of wanting to get married, especially with us having a child. I was beginning to think that perhaps we should consider it. So I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart, for showing me who you are before I agreed; especially since I stupidly ignored the warning sign of your prior cheating. You'll be hearing from my attorney regarding custody arrangements. Otherwise, let's limit future conversations to only what's necessary for that and property division. Goodbye, good luck, and I hope your new BF realizes what he's getting sooner than I did".


 I like like this a lot. The only change is that I would leave out the "I hope your new BF realizes what he's getting sooner than I did". If the OP ever does talk to the other man, he should tell him that "You got your wish, she is now all yours. As you will learn, be careful what you wish for."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Confused In Florida said:


> She is blonde


Gotcha... not the same girl...

What do they feed them down there??? 

geeze


----------



## Q tip

Blossom Leigh said:


> Gotcha... not the same girl...
> 
> What do they feed them down there???
> 
> geeze


Natural blond? Some girls are known to use hair color.. PM her the name. If it smells like a skunk...


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Haha, what is that saying? Blondes have all the child support they want? 

Personally I feel sorry for the child. Mother is a bad example of a female role model, and father is reactingn from fear.


----------



## badmemory

TRy said:


> I like like this a lot. The only change is that I would leave out the "I hope your new BF realizes what he's getting sooner than I did". If the OP ever does talk to the other man, he should tell him that "You got your wish, she is now all yours. As you will learn, be careful what you wish for."


Good point. Better said; I'm glad your new BF will be getting what he deserves.


----------



## wmn1

Confused In Florida said:


> She has shared custody of her children with her ex. Split 50/50



Not your kids, not your problem


----------



## wmn1

Confused In Florida said:


> That is my problem right there......she DID say I needed to turn things around or she would leave. She told me that numerous times. Like you said I was oblivious to exactly how bad things were in her world, because I thought I WAS doing the right thing by working hard and being a great dad. So to a certain degree I brought this on myself. Again I dont think its right to cheat, but I kept brushing her off and putting her on the back shelf. That is why I continue to kick myself for how everything transpired. Its a mess.


she's a serial cheater. If not this, she'll find another way to do it


----------



## Blossom Leigh

wmn1 said:


> Not your kids, not your problem


They share a son together.


----------



## Rugs

Blossom Leigh said:


> I agree... I know a woman like this.. she just finished with her third man (that I know of) and four or five kids already... all the guys are top earners, one of them works with us, that's how I know about her. I cut the check from him that goes to her every month... oh and interesting thing.... they never married either.


I know a woman like this too and she is not good looking at all. In her 30's, four ex-husbands, ?? Kids. (At least two I'm aware of), a live in boyfriend......one marriage lasted only a month. 

Every time I login to FB, (one a week), she's on there posting silly affirmations....

Baffles the heck out of me.

The guy tries to tame the crazy and wild girl complex. ??

Take that swimming pool money and hire a good attorney and seek out counseling for yourself if time allows.

We make our choices. The ball is ALWAYS in YOUR court.


----------



## Sports Fan

Time to offer up consequences for her foul behavour. Visit a Divorce Lawyer, find out your rights and start your exit plan.

Take your son and both move out before she gets home. Let her fight you in court for access. Expose to the other mans wife, and sit back and laugh as he throws your wife under the bus to save his marriage.

Once she is alone without your son, and paying off the huge mortgage to boot she will be snapped out of her affair fog and reality will hit.


----------



## Q tip

Blossom Leigh said:


> They share a son together.


well, no DNA test


----------



## OldWolf57

Oh, and if not said, when she see you gone, don't believe her saying she will break it off, or has.
She travels too much to be trusted EVER again, and her resentment if she gives up the job to save the relationship, will bite you in the butt my friend.

She is so sure and smug right now, that the contempt just drips from that txt. msg. So don't you dare let her guilt you with the neglect BS.

Like said, sorry for your son's sake, but you may get primary custody.

Good Luck and God Bless.


----------



## tom67

Q tip said:


> well, no DNA test


Good point with this one.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Confused in Florida, I'm very sorry for you to find out what kind of person she is.. I actually got emotional about seeing how cold and ruthless she is trying to be with you.. 

Its amazing how transparent she is about looking to take your money.. 

Its clearly obvious she wants you to fix up the house before she kicks you out and knows how much she can fight you for in court.. 

I just don't get why people can be like this.. How do people become such savages like this...


----------



## turnera

Remember, though, she wouldn't be this way with you if you hadn't proven it WORKS.

Read NMMNG.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hardtohandle said:


> Confused in Florida, I'm very sorry for you to find out what kind of person she is.. I actually got emotional about seeing how cold and ruthless she is trying to be with you..
> 
> Its amazing how transparent she is about looking to take your money..
> 
> Its clearly obvious she wants you to fix up the house before she kicks you out and knows how much she can fight you for in court..
> 
> I just don't get why people can be like this.. How do people become such savages like this...


What Does the Bible Say About Corruption?

What Does the Bible Say About Greed?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Remember, though, she wouldn't be this way with you if you hadn't proven it WORKS.
> 
> Read NMMNG.


Only partially true given it's obvious she was like this before they met, so others enabled her too.

But I agree he needs zero tolerance going forward.


----------



## Chaparral

Seriously, her MO is to have boyfriends in different cities. I doubt she has only one. 

Consider that women are attracted to certain types. Because your son looks like you is good but not definitive. We've seen this before here and the test results were negative.

No matrer what, I would move out while shes gone and pretend to go along with her until she found you gone.

My other option would be to just text her to go f#*k herself. Yeah, I like that even better since she thinks you're on a string.


----------



## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> Only partially true given it's obvious she was like this before they met, so others enabled her too.
> 
> But I agree he needs zero tolerance going forward.


Yeah, I came back to edit that, but you beat me to it. I meant she wouldn't be saying it to YOU if she didn't already think you would just sit there and take it, which means you've already shown her that you will.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Chaparral said:


> Seriously, her MO is to have boyfriends in different cities. I doubt she has only one.
> 
> Consider that women are attracted to certain types. Because your son looks like you is good but not definitive. We've seen this before here and the test results were negative.
> 
> No matrer what, I would move out while shes gone and pretend to go along with her until she found you gone.
> 
> My other option would be to just text her to go f#*k herself. Yeah, I like that even better since she thinks you're on a string.


The audacity of these women to pit men against each other just amazes me. I've seen guys do it too. Its just bad news and is a form of emotional blackmail.


----------



## Q tip

Probably other "aware" men have dropped her fast, but she just rolls on to the next one(s).

I'd love to see how many HPV bugs she's collected so far... There are many many variants, but blood tests check for the top 10 or 20


----------



## Q tip

Blossom Leigh said:


> The audacity of these women to pit men against each other just amazes me. I've seen guys do it too. Its just bad news and is a form of emotional blackmail.


I've mentioned before that his kid looks like him and probably 5 other guys that look like him - that he does not know about... And get the bloody DNA test. No point raising some other guys seed.


----------



## thebadguy

Q tip said:


> I've mentioned before that his kid looks like him and probably 5 other guys that look like him - that he does not know about... And get the bloody DNA test. No point raising some other guys seed.


I disagree whole heartedly with this statement.

He has raised the child to date. He may want to know that his genetic material is carried on in his son but the boy is is son 100% no matter whose DNA he has. 

If you need to know, go for it but my personal opinion is that SHE will get a DNA test if there is any doubt in her mind. If she wants to hurt you, she will try to take away your son and this is the only real card she could play.

My advice would be to not worry about the DNA and raise him. He is your son.

Given what else you have said here, regardless of the split that the court gives you, you will end up having him most of the time, if not all of the time. 

Your name is on the birth certificate. That's all that matters.


----------



## thebadguy

And talk to a lawyer quickly. There could not possibly be anything more important that getting your son's future solidified.


----------



## Q tip

thebadguy said:


> I disagree whole heartedly with this statement.
> 
> He has raised the child to date. He may want to know that his genetic material is carried on in his son but the boy is is son 100% no matter whose DNA he has.
> 
> If you need to know, go for it but my personal opinion is that SHE will get a DNA test if there is any doubt in her mind. If she wants to hurt you, she will try to take away your son and this is the only real card she could play.
> 
> My advice would be to not worry about the DNA and raise him. He is your son.
> 
> Given what else you have said here, regardless of the split that the court gives you, you will end up having him most of the time, if not all of the time.
> 
> Your name is on the birth certificate. That's all that matters.


So, if that one is not his, he should grab all of them since none of them are his. He should know and decide himself what he wants to do.


----------



## thebadguy

Q tip said:


> So, if that one is not his, he should grab all of them since none of them are his. He should know and decide himself what he wants to do.


He is only raising the one...i thought. Did I miss something?


----------



## Roselyn

His girlfriend has three other children from a previous marriage in addition to his 2 year old son. The other three children come home from their father's house when she returns from her 2-4 days of travel. Did I get this right? - inquiry from "thebadguy".


----------



## Confused In Florida

I need to appologize for being MIA on this thread. Here is an update to my situation. We tried to work things out with a councelor, spending more time together, etc. She was unwilling to break things off with OM. I was told by her that he was not married. I didnt believe her and sent a letter to his address to what I thought was his wife. Long story short, she (OMW) got the letter including receipts from gifts that he had bought my girlfriend. The sh!t hit the fan at his house this past Saturday. He is married (though I believe it is at the end of their marriage). My girlfriend sent me a text while I was at work stating what an A$$hole I am for sending the letter, etc etc etc. She had just found out from him. I picked up the phone shortly their after, called his cell phone (I have never spoken to him or seen him before). He didnt answer. I left a message stating him and her deserve each other, they are both pieces of crap, good luck with things etc etc. About 3 hours later, my cell phone rings, its him calling me back. His first words out of his mouth were...You won. She's all yours. He went on to say his wife got the letter, he has never been thru a more f**ked up thing in his life. He said he was told by my GF that we were done, had no contact anymore, and appologized. He said he is DONE and OUT...he repeated that about 10 times. I said again...she's all yours dude, go for it. Long story short, I had made arrangements to move out the next day. I am still in the process of moving, but pretty much all out. It has been a difficult time, especially with the kids, but I know in the end it is the right thing to do, and had to be done. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone and all of the advice. I will check in and update more down the road if anything else transpires. Thanks all!!


----------



## Clay2013

Its so nice to see when someone takes control of there life. Good for you. She is not worth it and now you know the truth. She will never be worth it. Its time to start taking care of you. 

You should be really proud of yourself. 

When I left my xW I truly believed I was doomed. I was so torn down. I honestly believed that was the best I could have done. I was so wrong. Not only did I find better my life is a thousand times better. I look back and ask myself why the hell didn't I leave sooner. 


Clay


----------



## Mr.Fisty

You have only this one life to experience, might as well as make it fulfilling as possible.

Sorry for everything you went through, and sorry for the loss of who you thought she was.

Like everyone else, she has flaws, but she had too many for you to deal with.


----------



## badmemory

Confused In Florida said:


> I need to appologize for being MIA on this thread. Here is an update to my situation. We tried to work things out with a councelor, spending more time together, etc. She was unwilling to break things off with OM. I was told by her that he was not married. I didnt believe her and sent a letter to his address to what I thought was his wife. Long story short, she (OMW) got the letter including receipts from gifts that he had bought my girlfriend. The sh!t hit the fan at his house this past Saturday. He is married (though I believe it is at the end of their marriage). My girlfriend sent me a text while I was at work stating what an A$$hole I am for sending the letter, etc etc etc. She had just found out from him. I picked up the phone shortly their after, called his cell phone (I have never spoken to him or seen him before). He didnt answer. I left a message stating him and her deserve each other, they are both pieces of crap, good luck with things etc etc. About 3 hours later, my cell phone rings, its him calling me back. His first words out of his mouth were...You won. She's all yours. He went on to say his wife got the letter, he has never been thru a more f**ked up thing in his life. He said he was told by my GF that we were done, had no contact anymore, and appologized. He said he is DONE and OUT...he repeated that about 10 times. I said again...she's all yours dude, go for it. Long story short, I had made arrangements to move out the next day. I am still in the process of moving, but pretty much all out. It has been a difficult time, especially with the kids, but I know in the end it is the right thing to do, and had to be done. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone and all of the advice. I will check in and update more down the road if anything else transpires. Thanks all!!


How's that for just deserts. She goes from two men vying for her, to being booted by both. Couldn't happen to a nicer girl.

Well done Confused.


----------



## Confused In Florida

badmemory said:


> How's that for just deserts. She goes from two men vying for her, to being booted by both. Couldn't happen to a nicer girl.
> 
> Well done Confused.


My guess is the two of them will probably get back together at some point, especially if he is going to divorce his wife as he sort of indicated so on his call to me. Whatever, so be it. They both deserve each other.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Confused In Florida said:


> I need to appologize for being MIA on this thread. Here is an update to my situation. We tried to work things out with a councelor, spending more time together, etc. She was unwilling to break things off with OM. I was told by her that he was not married. I didnt believe her and sent a letter to his address to what I thought was his wife. Long story short, she (OMW) got the letter including receipts from gifts that he had bought my girlfriend. The sh!t hit the fan at his house this past Saturday. He is married (though I believe it is at the end of their marriage). My girlfriend sent me a text while I was at work stating what an A$$hole I am for sending the letter, etc etc etc. She had just found out from him. I picked up the phone shortly their after, called his cell phone (I have never spoken to him or seen him before). He didnt answer. I left a message stating him and her deserve each other, they are both pieces of crap, good luck with things etc etc. About 3 hours later, my cell phone rings, its him calling me back. His first words out of his mouth were...You won. She's all yours. He went on to say his wife got the letter, he has never been thru a more f**ked up thing in his life. He said he was told by my GF that we were done, had no contact anymore, and appologized. He said he is DONE and OUT...he repeated that about 10 times. I said again...she's all yours dude, go for it. Long story short, I had made arrangements to move out the next day. I am still in the process of moving, but pretty much all out. It has been a difficult time, especially with the kids, but I know in the end it is the right thing to do, and had to be done. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone and all of the advice. I will check in and update more down the road if anything else transpires. Thanks all!!


This is why many of us here say exposure is oh so important.

If after you expose, he/she does not want to come back to your relationship, they were NEVER coming back anyway.

The only time that I'd hold of on exposure is if there was no chance of R anyway and it benefited your side in the D proceedings.

Now, she went from having one man on a line and another in her back pocket to none. Good for you OP, good for you.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Confused In Florida

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This is why many of us here say exposure is oh so important.
> 
> If after you expose, he/she does not want to come back to your relationship, they were NEVER coming back anyway.
> 
> The only time that I'd hold of on exposure is if there was no chance of R anyway and it benefited your side in the D proceedings.
> 
> Now, she went from having one man on a line and another in her back pocket to none. Good for you OP, good for you.
> 
> Thanks for the update.


I just wish I would have exposed earlier. The tough thing was he works in Florida during the week, but supposedly went home every weekend to Pittsburg PA. After thinking about it for awhile, I figured there was no way someone was going to go home each and every weekend just to see their teen age daughters as my GF said the OM had. I figured if he was going home every weekend, he HAD to be married, or at least it seemed like it made sense that he was married to me. I would have loved to have been in the room when his wife confronted him on the whole ordeal. It would have been priceless!


----------



## badmemory

Confused In Florida said:


> I just wish I would have exposed earlier. The tough thing was he works in Florida during the week, but supposedly went home every weekend to Pittsburg PA. After thinking about it for awhile, I figured there was no way someone was going to go home each and every weekend just to see their teen age daughters as my GF said the OM had. I figured if he was going home every weekend, he HAD to be married, or at least it seemed like it made sense that he was married to me. I would have loved to have been in the room when his wife confronted him on the whole ordeal. It would have been priceless!


I'm curious. Did the OM admit that he didn't tell your GF he was married?


----------



## tom67

Confused In Florida said:


> My guess is the two of them will probably get back together at some point, especially if he is going to divorce his wife as he sort of indicated so on his call to me. Whatever, so be it. They both deserve each other.


Hey Confused like GP said exposure is the key.
Down the road come back if you can and help future newbies you would be an asset here.
Hope you get a parenting agreement done so you can truly move on.


----------



## wmn1

Good for you my man. And it was great that you stuck to your guns. It would have been easier to take her back but who would want a hedonist like that who would do the same thing again. Now protect your assets and rebuild. Trust me, you are better off


----------



## Q tip

As mentioned on page one...

She'll Rinse and repeat until her looks fade and all she's left with are a gaggle of kids and nice shoes...


----------



## Confused In Florida

badmemory said:


> I'm curious. Did the OM admit that he didn't tell your GF he was married?


He didnt say, and I guess I didnt ask him. I assume she knew he was married, in fact I would say she was 100% sure he was married, though she told me he was divorced.....just another lie. She said the other day that it didnt matter to her if he was married or not, it didnt concern her......unreal how some people can have no moral compass or boundaries


----------



## Vulcan2013

Well played. She's gotta be feeling it, dumped by plans A and B. Great move on exposure.


----------



## tulsy

Confused In Florida said:


> ...she told me he was divorced.....just another lie. She said the other day that it didnt matter to her if he was married or not, it didnt concern her......unreal how some people can have no moral compass or boundaries


Yup...it's shocking.


----------



## NoChoice

What a life of chaos some people live. Not caring at all for anyone but themselves. It didn't matter to her if he was married or not...fascinating.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Destructive woman.


----------



## TOMTEFAR

What's your STBXWW reaction to you moving out? Is she trying to get you back?


----------



## Confused In Florida

TOMTEFAR said:


> What's your STBXWW reaction to you moving out? Is she trying to get you back?


For the most part, no she is not trying to get me back. She has been gone out of town traveling for work the past 3 days. When she gets home tonite, I will not be there and all of my stuff is out of the house. She knows I'm leaving and taking what is mine, and she has even already gone out and purchased new furniture to replace what is mine that I am taking with me. So for the most part, no remorse, no regret, no appologies for anything that she has done. I believe in the next few weeks/months it will hit her like a lead brick and she will regret things, but I may be wrong. Time will tell.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Geeze...


----------



## Q tip

Unfortunately, she's wired this way. Only age will stop her. When she's not the hottest babe on the block anymore. Then a lifetime of regrets will hit her. She'll be bitter, hateful and alone. 

Read up on MMSLP. It will explain much.


----------



## LongWalk

You have be careful about custody. Removing a child from its habitual residence can go badly in court. However, since you ex GF is traveling so much, she probably is not going to hassle you over it. But still good to have your custody plan on paper.

Now that this has all gone t!ts up, you need a new strategy. Since you are not going to attempt R and you are not too impressed with her character, you need to consider the long term co-parenting relationship.

If you can go up to 50,000 feet, this relationship is almost funny. Okay, it's not, but the commercialization of her R negotiation was absurd. You've got to laugh. I mean maybe you could have negotiated away some point. The French doors, for example. Haha.

You need to be smarter than her and more honest. Consider writing her a short letter asking her to forgive you for your shortcomings. Do not make any reference to her fornication. That is on her. The purpose of letter, which must be sincere, is help you let go of her. You take blame on yourself so that you can forgive yourself and move on.

In your dealings with her now be possitive, polite and appropriately detached. Avoid displaying anger. You are going to have to get along with this muddle head for 18 years or whatever. Be solid. She may never get her shyte together, but you can set an example of how a grown up deals with betrayal and disappointment.

You have some sort of relationship with her children. That will now end... or perhaps not. You shouldn't volunteer to be a babysitter but you don't have cut those kids out of your life like cancer if it doesn't feel right.

Do you know her ex?

Lucky you never married. There was a guy from Florida on TAM, SkaterDad. He said gyms in Florida was full of horrible promiscuous divorced women. I trust it's not true, but you need to be careful next time round.


----------



## Confused In Florida

LongWalk said:


> You have be careful about custody. Removing a child from its habitual residence can go badly in court. However, since you ex GF is traveling so much, she probably is not going to hassle you over it. But still good to have your custody plan on paper.
> 
> Now that this has all gone t!ts up, you need a new strategy. Since you are not going to attempt R and you are not too impressed with her character, you need to consider the long term co-parenting relationship.
> 
> If you can go up to 50,000 feet, this relationship is almost funny. Okay, it's not, but the commercialization of her R negotiation was absurd. You've got to laugh. I mean maybe you could have negotiated away some point. The French doors, for example. Haha.
> 
> You need to be smarter than her and more honest. Consider writing her a short letter asking her to forgive you for your shortcomings. Do not make any reference to her fornication. That is on her. The purpose of letter, which must be sincere, is help you let go of her. You take blame on yourself so that you can forgive yourself and move on.
> 
> In your dealings with her now be possitive, polite and appropriately detached. Avoid displaying anger. You are going to have to get along with this muddle head for 18 years or whatever. Be solid. She may never get her shyte together, but you can set an example of how a grown up deals with betrayal and disappointment.
> 
> You have some sort of relationship with her children. That will now end... or perhaps not. You shouldn't volunteer to be a babysitter but you don't have cut those kids out of your life like cancer if it doesn't feel right.
> 
> Do you know her ex?
> 
> Lucky you never married. There was a guy from Florida on TAM, SkaterDad. He said gyms in Florida was full of horrible promiscuous divorced women. I trust it's not true, but you need to be careful next time round.


Very good advice on writting her a letter about my shortcomings, I will do that. I do plan on having some sort of a relationship with her other children, as they are great kids and we get along really well, and when it comes right down to it, they are now the brother and sisters to my son. As you said, I wont be their babysitters, but I do plan on being in their lives and spending time with them. As far as the gyms in Florida....your exactly right. My buddy owns a gym, and the stories I hear from him are unbelieveable. Divorced or married, the stories he tells me of what people do are unbelievable.


----------



## leon1

It will take time for her to realise what she lost , you should be glad you were never married to her , imagine how horrible a divorce with her would be , so count yourself lucky and make some effort to do things and go out and meet people .


----------



## LongWalk

If you play this right, perhaps in 4 or 5 years you'll find that she considers you a solid, grounded person. You will influence her for the good of your son.


----------



## Clay2013

I would not hold your breath for any kind of self realizations she might or might not have. You did the right thing. You stood up for yourself and your now on the right track to having a much better life. I personally would not entertain much commutations with her other than what you have to. 

8 Years since my xW cheated on me and I have still never heard so much as I am sorry for anything from her. She still blames me for everything.


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## Confused In Florida

leon1 said:


> It will take time for her to realise what she lost , you should be glad you were never married to her , imagine how horrible a divorce with her would be , so count yourself lucky and make some effort to do things and go out and meet people .


For sure. She has no idea how much I did for her and her kids, and around the house,.....no clue. It will hit her sooner than later. In the meantime, yes I am already getting out to meet some new people. Fortunately I have never had much of problem in the lady department.


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## Confused In Florida

Clay2013 said:


> 8 Years since my xW cheated on me and I have still never heard so much as I am sorry for anything from her. She still blames me for everything.


Sounds familiar. She still tells me its all my fault. Just this morning when I dropped off my son to her for the first time, I said this whole thing is a bunch of crap. She said it again...."yep, you put me on the back burner for a year and a half and that is why this happened, its your fault."


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## Clay2013

She failed to communicate her disappointment. She then used this as her motive to cheat. She is clearly a looser. You did the right thing. You should be proud of yourself for doing it.

There are plenty of better women out there. 

Clay


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## badmemory

Confused In Florida said:


> "yep, you put me on the back burner for a year and a half and that is why this happened, its your fault."


When you hear something from her like that, she's doing you a favor. Reaffirming your decision to divorce her and helping you get past her just that much more quickly.


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## carmen ohio

LongWalk said:


> . . . *You need to be smarter than her and more honest. Consider writing her a short letter asking her to forgive you for your shortcomings. Do not make any reference to her fornication. That is on her. The purpose of letter, which must be sincere, is help you let go of her. You take blame on yourself so that you can forgive yourself and move on.*
> 
> *In your dealings with her now be possitive, polite and appropriately detached. Avoid displaying anger. You are going to have to get along with this muddle head for 18 years or whatever. Be solid. She may never get her shyte together, but you can set an example of how a grown up deals with betrayal and disappointment* . . .


The advice I've *bolded in green* is very good. Acting like a level-headed, responsible adult is always best.

The advice I've *bolded in red* is very bad. Under no circumstances should the OP admit in writing to any wrong-doing or take the blame for the failure of the relationship. It could come back to bite him, for example, if the WW uses it to dispute his claim for joint custody of his son.


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## LongWalk

Carmen,

This letting go letter is not about taking blame for the affair. It is about removing the cheater's self justification. This sort of letter is not for everybody. It has to be sincere. The purpose is not self abasement. Nor should it include some sort of admission of wrong doing that could be used in a custody battle. Often waywards re-write history and vilify BS. This removes the betrayed spouse from this victim, perscutor savior triangle.

The writer is done with cheater but refuses to get wrapped up in hatred or bitterness. 

I wouldn't have suggested this if OP were weak or uncertain. He was not going mount French doors to please her. This woman is such a mess that he does not need to elevate her status by being hurt.


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## carmen ohio

LongWalk said:


> Carmen,
> 
> *This letting go letter is not about taking blame for the affair.* It is about removing the cheater's self justification. This sort of letter is not for everybody. It has to be sincere. The purpose is not self abasement. Nor should it include some sort of admission of wrong doing that could be used in a custody battle. Often waywards re-write history and vilify BS. This removes the betrayed spouse from this victim, perscutor savior triangle.
> 
> The writer is done with cheater but refuses to get wrapped up in hatred or bitterness.
> 
> I wouldn't have suggested this if OP were weak or uncertain. He was not going mount French doors to please her. This woman is such a mess that he does not need to elevate her status by being hurt.


LongWalk, here's what you said in your previous post:



> Consider writing her a short letter asking her to forgive you *for your shortcomings.* *Do not make any reference to her fornication.* That is on her. The purpose of letter, which must be sincere, is help you let go of her. *You take blame on yourself* so that you can forgive yourself and move on.


You specifically advised the OP take the blame. If not for the affair, then for what?

Frankly, the advise makes no sense to me but, whatever you meant, I would still would warn the OP against sending her a document in which he accepts any degree of responsibility for the demise of their relationship.


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## Q tip

Avoid any admission of responsibility. If written, she can sue using your letter as evidence. Just to spite you and tie you up. And - take your money.


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## LongWalk

When cheating results in the death of a relationship it is possible that the betrayed spouse/partner will experience unforgivable assaults and insults. Shock is often the first reaction. A betrayed partner may reach out and seek reconciliation, not fully seeing how horrible the WS is. Eventually the desire for R may fade to be replaced by anger. Further on hatred, which over time gives way to disgust and indifference. Writing a letter of apology is a way of skipping to indifference asap. It cannot work for everyone.

Note: OP entered into a flexible relationship. Both of them were skeptical of marriage. However, WGF actually wanted marital commitment in terms of property and money. She was mistaken about her own values.

Now that she has revealed her shallowness, OP needs to control what he can, that is his own reaction to her. So far he going in the right direction faster than the average guy. He is able to create distance. It could be a lot worse. He didn't just buy her an expensive engagement ring.


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## wmn1

Confused In Florida said:


> Sounds familiar. She still tells me its all my fault. Just this morning when I dropped off my son to her for the first time, I said this whole thing is a bunch of crap. She said it again...."yep, you put me on the back burner for a year and a half and that is why this happened, its your fault."


she has no excuse


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## wmn1

carmen ohio said:


> LongWalk, here's what you said in your previous post:
> 
> You specifically advised the OP take the blame. If not for the affair, then for what?
> 
> Frankly, the advise makes no sense to me but, whatever you meant, I would still would warn the OP against sending her a document in which he accepts any degree of responsibility for the demise of their relationship.


I agree. If he does this, he is justifying her unjustifiable actions


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## Mr.Fisty

Wow, so she can't control her actions. She could've left, she could have a talkwith you. Instead, she finds another guy and drops her pants, because she is not an adult, whom can make conscious decisions. If she got drunk behind the wheel, crash into another car, she would probably blame you because she needed the alcohol to deal with her emotions. Well, at least your seeing her true self.


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## turnera

carmen ohio said:


> LongWalk, here's what you said in your previous post:
> 
> You specifically advised the OP take the blame. If not for the affair, then for what?


Well, obviously, for any shortcomings he had in their marriage. In a perfect marriage, she would be doing the same for HER side of the street. 

We ALL have blame for SOMETHING in our marriage. We are not Jesus.

The point LW is making is that when you approach a relationship with humility and LACK of mudslinging, it gives the other person little to attack you with. He is saying to say 'ok, you're making these choices I don't agree with. Maybe there was something I did in our marriage that harmed you, and I apologize for that; I never meant to hurt you. We'll part ways, and you'll live however you want to live, as I will. Maybe some day I can forgive you for destroying our marriage with infidelity; I hope so. Let's call it a day.'

Which person is more admirable?


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## Q tip

Well, she's broken. Let her be someone else's problem...


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## carmen ohio

turnera said:


> Well, obviously, for any shortcomings he had in their marriage. In a perfect marriage, she would be doing the same for HER side of the street.
> 
> We ALL have blame for SOMETHING in our marriage. We are not Jesus.
> 
> The point LW is making is that when you approach a relationship with humility and LACK of mudslinging, it gives the other person little to attack you with. He is saying to say 'ok, you're making these choices I don't agree with. Maybe there was something I did in our marriage that harmed you, and I apologize for that; I never meant to hurt you. We'll part ways, and you'll live however you want to live, as I will. Maybe some day I can forgive you for destroying our marriage with infidelity; I hope so. Let's call it a day.'
> 
> Which person is more admirable?


First of all, turnera, that's not what LongWalk said. He told the OP to _"take blame on yourself,"_ not _'apologize for your own shortcomings.'_ Not only that, he advised the OP to put it in writing. I think this is bad advice.

But's let's consider what you've said. IMO, when a BS is still trying to come to grips with his WS's infidelity, the last thing he should be doing is apologizing. Not only is it totally beta, it's most likely to make the WS feel more, not less, justified in having cheated, and it goes against everything that the vast majority of posters on TAM/CWI advocate when confronting a cheater.

Indeed, it goes against innumerable pieces of advice you yourself have given over the past years that I have been reading your posts. In fact, I cannot remember you ever advocating that the BS apologize to his or her WS -- for anything.

You ask if I would admire the BS for doing this. No, I'd think him a chump.


P.S.: This is the mellowist I've ever heard you. Have you had too many cups of chamomile tea to drink today or something?


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## LongWalk

Well, Turnera put it better than I did.

OP's wayward partner has made herself ludicrous by blaming him and then seeking to negotiate R in terms of material security. She has depicted herself as a person whose emotional attachment can be bought. Moreover, her demands were absurd. Such person cannot be taken seriously. OP sees her clearly as a confused person.

She isn't going to embark on critical self evaluation but the OP has to get along with her as a co-parent of a small child. He might as well detach from conflict. Arguing with her about anything is rather pointless, for he is not going attempt R.

I am not talking about being some sort of craven beta dude. He is not going bake her carrot cake and beg her to come and eat piece over coffee. They are done. He is not digging a swimming pool in the backyard or installing fvcking French doors. He is not negotiating but rather ending the discussion without selling himself to her. She is the one being dumped now and there is no point of acrimony.


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## Blossom Leigh

Owning appropriate marital issues prior to affair for both spouses is part of the recovery process advocated on www.affairrecovery.com AFTER the BS betrayal pain is acknowledged fully by the WS. So Longwalk is right that it needs to be done, but WHEN is critical. And I feel Carmen may have legal insight into how that prevents incrimination in court.


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## carmen ohio

Blossom Leigh said:


> Owning appropriate marital issues prior to affair for both spouses is part of the recovery process advocated on www.affairrecovery.com AFTER the BS betrayal pain is acknowledged fully by the WS. So Longwalk is right that it needs to be done, but WHEN is critical. And I feel Carmen may have legal insight into how that prevents incrimination in court.


Blessed are the peacemakers . . .


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## TRy

Confused In Florida said:


> Sounds familiar. She still tells me its all my fault. Just this morning when I dropped off my son to her for the first time, I said this whole thing is a bunch of crap. She said it again...."yep, you put me on the back burner for a year and a half and that is why this happened, its your fault."


 Why on earth are you planning to write that woman a letter admitting all of your faults and not mentioning her cheating? It would do nothing more than feed the monster, and she would have written proof to show everyone that it was your fault. Do not write that letter. Once you do, you can never take it back.


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## Q tip

TRy said:


> Why on earth are you planning to write that woman a letter admitting all of your faults and not mentioning her cheating? It would do nothing more than feed the monster, and she would have written proof to show everyone that it was your fault. Do not write that letter. Once you do, you can never take it back.


Typical orbiting beta response...

Her behavior is typical, using orbiting betas, but throwing a bone of sex as a reward mechanism. She's an evil manipulator, suitable for betas only.


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## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Which person is more admirable?


The one who didn't cheat.


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## TRy

carmen ohio said:


> P.S.: This is the mellowist I've ever heard you. Have you had too many cups of chamomile tea to drink today or something?


 :iagree:
When I read this advice, I was thinking is this really turnera posting this?


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## Confused In Florida

At this time I dont plan on writting a letter to her. I dont see what benefit I would get from it at this time. She did what she did and it is what it is. I am moving on and at this time I am letting the chips fall where they may. She is the one who messed things up, and any appology at this time from me doesnt seem to make any sense and in my opinion us unnecessary. She should be the one appologizing, not me.


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## LongWalk

The most important thing is that you know the score. You are done with her.

But you should be curious to know how you could have so misjudged her character.


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## happyman64

Confused

Lw and Turnera gave you great advice.

A friend of mine married a very selfish woman, much like your wife.

She also had two kids from two other men. I told him he should be careful but of course he did not listen.

She cheats on him. He catches her. She tells him she is not sorry for sleeping around.

He divorces her.

His letter to her was about being great Coparents for their kid. He asked her to picture herself 15 years from now with all of her children at a school event.

She was with all 3 exhusbands.

And not one would want to sit next to her because of her infidelities, her selfishness, her broken families.

He asked her to stop thinking of herself and to start thinking of the kids.

That woman has never been the same since. She stopped screwing around. She stopped screwing herself and her kids over.

It has to start somewhere. Sure you have nothing to apologize for.

Be the better person.

Here are a few suggestions:
Get yourself in a house.
The house should have French doors over looking the pool.
Have a nice room for your son and a guest room for his brother or sister if they want to stay over.

And the next woman in your life can be beautiful on the outside but make sure she is ten times more beautiful on the inside.

Have a great life. Communication is key in any relationship. With your gf, with your wife, with your kid and even with your ex.

She might have wanted certain material things to come back to you. It doesn't hurt to point out to her that all you wanted was for her to keep her legs closed, honesty and a fair shot to fix the relationship.

She lost more.....

HM


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## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> The most important thing is that you know the score. You are done with her.
> 
> But you should be curious to know how you could have so misjudged her character.


Yeah, somehow I don't think she's getting all these men with her character.


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## Q tip

Nucking Futs said:


> Yeah, somehow I don't think she's getting all these men with her character.


:rofl: :lol: :rofl:

oh yes she is... but, in a few more years, she wont.


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## Confused In Florida

happyman64 said:


> Confused
> 
> Law and Turnera gave you great advice.
> 
> A friend of mine married a very selfish woman, much like your wife.
> 
> She also had two kids from two other men. I told him he should be careful but of course he did not listen.
> 
> She cheats on him. He catches her. She tells him she is not sorry for sleeping around.
> 
> He divorces her.
> 
> His letter to her was about being great Coparents for their kid. He asked her to picture herself 15 years from now with all of her children at a school event.
> 
> She was with all 3 exhusbands.
> 
> And not one would want to sit next to her because of her infidelities, her selfishness, her broken families.
> 
> He asked her to stop thinking of herself and to start thinking of the kids.
> 
> That woman has never been the same since. She stopped screwing around. She stopped screwing herself and her kids over.
> 
> It has to start somewhere. Sure you have nothing to apologize for.
> 
> Be the better person.
> 
> Here are a few suggestions:
> Get yourself in a house.
> The house should have French doors over looking the pool.
> Have a nice room for your son and a guest room for his brother or sister if they want to stay over.
> 
> And the next woman in your life can be beautiful on the inside but make sure she is ten times more beautiful on the inside.
> 
> Have a great life. Communication is key in any relationship. With your gf, with your wife, with your kid and even with your ex.
> 
> She might have wanted certain material things to come back to you. It doesn't hurt to point out to her that all you wanted was for her to keep her legs closed, honesty and a fair shot to fix the relationship.
> 
> She lost more.....
> 
> HM


Well said Happyman. I will take your advice, you are spot on. Thank you!


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## LongWalk

Confused in Florida,

You are doing better than the overwhelming majority of men or women would were they to find themselves in your situation. You have not allowed wishful sentimentality steer your judgment however painful this is.

Read Acoa's thread to see how long one can be in limbo. He is a smart guy but it took him some time to accept that his exWW was a weak and mixed up person who lacked insight.

The mother of your child is thankfully not your wife. You have taught everyone a valuable lesson about marriage. Some instinct may have preserved you from putting a ring on her finger. Even if you had treated her life a princess, she might well have cheated anyway.

When you see her you should almost be happy and grateful. You skip the lawyers, property settlement, etc.


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## Confused In Florida

LongWalk said:


> The mother of your child is thankfully not your wife. You have taught everyone a valuable lesson about marriage. Some instinct may have preserved you from putting a ring on her finger. Even if you had treated her life a princess, she might well have cheated anyway.


I agree. It is hard to say if she would have cheated on me if in fact we were married, my guess is at some time she much more than likely would have. But the number one reason I never did marry her was I knew what her past history of cheating with her ex husband with multiple men was. Bottom line is this, when we were first dating, we had a blast together, trusted each other, sex was fantastic (she is a superstar in that department, lol). But deep inside I knew she wasnt marriage material, she was fun material. Then our son came along, obviously unplanned. He is easily the best thing that has ever happened in my life. I thought I would try to do the right thing and raise him in a family where his mother and father were together, even though we werent married. It just didnt work when she showed her true colors. Its like one of my friend said to me the other day......"dude, you cant make a hoe into a housewife".... he nailed that comment as its very true.


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## carmen ohio

TRy said:


> :iagree:
> When I read this advice, I was thinking is this really turnera posting this?


I think she was just trying to see if any of us were awake.


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## LongWalk

Carmen,

I never would have dreamed of giving this advice about the letter to 90% of BS. Dadof2, for example, had to fight for ages to regain some distance from his WW. The letter of apology is not my invention but a well reasoned step to remove oneself from the so-called victim triangle.

Confused in Florida is in fact not confused. Read his last post – he has been wide awake despite the sex drug high. So he is the sort of person who has the wisdom remove his cheating GF's power to hurt him away decisively. Even if he does not write her a letter the process is going to similar:

He is going to stop demanding apologies or any accounting from her. He does not believe she is enlightened enough. He is not going to try and squeeze out a moral awakening from her. Rejection of her entire mindset is right response.

All that remains is to diplomatically arrange for a good custody plan. Since Confused in Florida is not confused, she really has no hold over him. She may go into overdrive to try and regain power over him. He is not going to fall for it.

Over time as he proves a good and stable father, she may well come to see him differently. That will take a lot of time if it happens at all.


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## carmen ohio

LongWalk said:


> Carmen,
> 
> I never would have dreamed of giving this advice about the letter to 90% of BS. Dadof2, for example, had to fight for ages to regain some distance from his WW. The letter of apology is not my invention but a well reasoned step to remove oneself from the so-called victim triangle.
> 
> Confused in Florida is in fact not confused. Read his last post – he has been wide awake despite the sex drug high. So he is the sort of person who has the wisdom remove his cheating GF's power to hurt him away decisively. Even if he does not write her a letter the process is going to similar:
> 
> He is going to stop demanding apologies or any accounting from her. He does not believe she is enlightened enough. He is not going to try and squeeze out a moral awakening from her. Rejection of her entire mindset is right response.
> 
> All that remains is to diplomatically arrange for a good custody plan. Since Confused in Florida is not confused, she really has no hold over him. She may go into overdrive to try and regain power over him. He is not going to fall for it.
> 
> Over time as he proves a good and stable father, she may well come to see him differently. That will take a lot of time if it happens at all.


No offense intended, LongWalk, but your advice honestly makes no sense to me. I can't fathom a BS ever benefiting from going to his or her unrepentant WS and saying _"I'm sorry for all the things I did wrong during our marriage,"_ let alone putting it in writing.

Now, if the WS were repentant and the couple were in R, then it would be a different story and I would expect the BS to own his or her share of the pre-affair marriage problems. But I would still advise against putting it in writing. As an attorney I would never advise someone to memorialize anything that could be used against him.

Maybe I just don't understand you or maybe we simply disagree. In any event, the OP has said he does not intend to send the letter so our debate would seem to be moot.


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## worried_well

23323


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## LongWalk

Fair enough, Carmen.


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## happyman64

Oh it will happen.

Her looks will fade.

Her sexual power will decrease.

One day the Ex will come over to pickup the kid at his house. He will invite her in to wait.

Confused will be sitting at his kitchen table sipping coffee, with his new GF having a nice conversation while looking out the French doors overlooking the beautiful pool.

Enjoying each other's company.

And his Ex will think "That should have been me sitting there"

That is when she will begin to get it.


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