# MLC?



## Chopsy

MyH and I married 12 years. H 37, me 48. No kids. Four months since ILYBINILWY, he moved in with OW at that point. He is definitely going through MLC. H now in IC, still living with OW. We talk now and then, he is finally being honest with me. He is very depressed, very guilty. Very traumatic last year as his business failed and he has worked every day for past two years. He is trying to build his business back up now. 

I am in favour of R as we have had such a close relationship. I am not pushing this or anything else as he needs to heal himself and so do I. I am currently NC. For awhile I thought it best to keep communications open. Now I just don't know. 

There's lots of advice on here regarding infidelity but not so much about MLC. If you have any advice I'd appreciate it


----------



## Mavash.

A MLC is no excuse to cheat. 

The advice for infidelity is all you need.


----------



## Chopsy

I realise there's never any excuse ever for cheating but the motivation is often different with MLC. Cheating is often driven from boredom, fantasy, the grass is greener etc, I think my husbands cheating came from a place of unhappiness and depression, hoping this person would make him happy. Well that's as I see it anyway. Any advice from those who have/had a WS in MLC much appreciated.


----------



## This is me

Chopsy said:


> MyH and I married 12 years. H 37, me 48. No kids. Four months since ILYBINILWY, he moved in with OW at that point. He is definitely going through MLC. H now in IC, still living with OW. We talk now and then, he is finally being honest with me. He is very depressed, very guilty. Very traumatic last year as his business failed and he has worked every day for past two years. He is trying to build his business back up now.
> 
> I am in favour of R as we have had such a close relationship. I am not pushing this or anything else as he needs to heal himself and so do I. I am currently NC. For awhile I thought it best to keep communications open. Now I just don't know.
> 
> There's lots of advice on here regarding infidelity but not so much about MLC. If you have any advice I'd appreciate it


Chopsy,

I found myself here at TAM about 2 years ago when the women I loved and had been married to for 17 years was suddenly a different person. She hit me with the D work on Valentines weekend and to me it came out of the blue. It was identical the the Walk-Away Wife syndrome, where I was clueless she was building resentment and giving me all the signs things were fine. She was depressed and going through the MLC. 

The one thing I have learned is that MLC's are pretty common here at TAM by description, but some people just don't see it. Sadly, everyone here comes with baggage and POV that are scarred from personal experiences and may advise moving on needlessly.

MLC's are a fog that lifts over time. I think anytime someone has an EA or PA the first thing that should be looked at is whether the person could be going the the mental glitch of a MLC. If so and patience is given, I believe many of these marriages can be saved if forgiveness can be given and the sufferer of the illness can forgive self. Yours is clearly having issues with the guilt.

I highly recommend some of Michele Werner Davis's books like Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy. She gets it! Many don't.

My marriage was a very good one, and thats why I fought for mine. It took patience I never knew I had. Many do not have patience in the pro-divorce world today.

If you have kids it might be even more worth fighting to get back.

My marriage is back and better than before. Well worth it!

I wish you well whichever path you take!


----------



## This is me

Mavash. said:


> A MLC is no excuse to cheat.
> 
> The advice for infidelity is all you need.


Cheating is never right, but it is a mental illness, without a doubt. My wife was never the type and all the sudden she was in an EA. I think they are blind to the depression and just like someone who commits suicide, they can make bad choices at this vulnerable time.

I think if we all view MLC's as the illness it is, we might approach it differently, by setting boundaries and mitigating the damage. This even more true for those marriages that were once in a very good place and suddenly seems like an alien has taken over the spouse.


----------



## This is me

Chopsy said:


> I realise there's never any excuse ever for cheating but the motivation is often different with MLC. Cheating is often driven from boredom, fantasy, the grass is greener etc, I think my husbands cheating came from a place of unhappiness and depression, hoping this person would make him happy. Well that's as I see it anyway. Any advice from those who have/had a WS in MLC much appreciated.


You get it! Michelle Werner Davis gets it too. 

I think the divorce rate would be much lower if people understood MLC's and treated them as the illness thy are. IMHO.


----------



## KnnNike

37 is a little young for a MLC, just sayin'.

It's important to take MLCs seriously, but it's also important to recognize when they're being used as a crutch or a "free pass" for illicit behavior.


----------



## Mavash.

KnnNike said:


> 37 is a little young for a MLC, just sayin'.
> 
> It's important to take MLCs seriously, but it's also important to recognize when they're being used as a crutch or a "free pass" for illicit behavior.


Agree. This ain't no MLC. Depression maybe but not MLC. 

Depression is also an illness but it's still not a reason to get a free pass for cheating.


----------



## Dewayne76

I would normally have agreed to this. But my counselor once told me that she had seen many, many people very deeply in an obvious MLC, in their late 20's. My counselor said my wife could very well be in one, simply because of her mother. 

My ExW's mother died when the exw was 6 years old. She lost her father just 2 years ago. My exw is a very emotional person when it comes to thinking, or talking about her mother. And she had ALWAYS mentioned hoping she never got that cancer. 

My wife, excuse me, exwife, nver said it, but I know she fears dying young. In fac,t now that I think about it, during one of our talks, she mentioned not wanting to die soon. Just dawned on me as I was writing. I remember, it was when we were talking in the truck. 

All in all, I do not believe there is an age restriction for MLC, if a person realizes mortality, they realize mortality. No matter the age. Age may be one factor that makes them react a certain way, who knows.


----------



## This is me

KnnNike said:


> 37 is a little young for a MLC, just sayin'.
> 
> It's important to take MLCs seriously, but it's also important to recognize when they're being used as a crutch or a "free pass" for illicit behavior.


37 not too young. Read up on it. It is depression at the core, it gets the MLC label because of the number who get depression in the 40's mostly.


----------



## KnnNike

This is me said:


> 37 not too young. Read up on it. It is depression at the core, it gets the MLC label because of the number who get depression in the 40's mostly.


Then it's not a MLC - you said it yourself. It's depression masquerading as a MLC.

There is nothing here that contradicts my original statement.


----------



## Chopsy

My H was very confused about his identity months before he left. He felt he didn't know who he was anymore. He has enormous baggage from a severely dysfunctional childhood. Im not looking fora crutch to explain things or an easy explanation to hide th truth. I'm fully aware of the truth. I've kept communications open but am currently NC. He is incredibly unhappy and I know his affair has not brought him any happiness at all. MLC is real, tho I know many people have their own views and maybe think I'm delusional . Im fully aware of the situation. Any advice would be helpful, thanks.


----------



## Chopsy

This is me said:


> Cheating is never right, but it is a mental illness, without a doubt. My wife was never the type and all the sudden she was in an EA. I think they are blind to the depression and just like someone who commits suicide, they can make bad choices at this vulnerable time.
> 
> I think if we all view MLC's as the illness it is, we might approach it differently, by setting boundaries and mitigating the damage. This even more true for those marriages that were once in a very good place and suddenly seems like an alien has taken over the spouse.





This is me said:


> Chopsy,
> 
> I found myself here at TAM about 2 years ago when the women I loved and had been married to for 17 years was suddenly a different person. She hit me with the D work on Valentines weekend and to me it came out of the blue. It was identical the the Walk-Away Wife syndrome, where I was clueless she was building resentment and giving me all the signs things were fine. She was depressed and going through the MLC.
> 
> The one thing I have learned is that MLC's are pretty common here at TAM by description, but some people just don't see it. Sadly, everyone here comes with baggage and POV that are scarred from personal experiences and may advise moving on needlessly.
> 
> MLC's are a fog that lifts over time. I think anytime someone has an EA or PA the first thing that should be looked at is whether the person could be going the the mental glitch of a MLC. If so and patience is given, I believe many of these marriages can be saved if forgiveness can be given and the sufferer of the illness can forgive self. Yours is clearly having issues with the guilt.
> 
> I highly recommend some of Michele Werner Davis's books like Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy. She gets it! Many don't.
> 
> My marriage was a very good one, and thats why I fought for mine. It took patience I never knew I had. Many do not have patience in the pro-divorce world today.
> 
> If you have kids it might be even more worth fighting to get back.
> 
> My marriage is back and better than before. Well worth it!
> 
> I wish you well whichever path you take!


Hi This, thank you for your posts, I do appreciate it. How long was your wife away and what made her come out of the fog. I'm not desperate to R and a lot of things would need to change for me to consider it. I'm only keeping the door open as we've always been close. Our marriage wasn't perfect and I've taken responsibility for my role in it and what I contributed. Ive taken time to change who I am and am more confident and responsible for my own energy and happiness. It would be nice to hear what changed that gave you a chance to work on things.


----------



## This is me

KnnNike said:


> Then it's not a MLC - you said it yourself. It's depression masquerading as a MLC.
> 
> There is nothing here that contradicts my original statement.


MLC is depression. No party going on.


----------



## This is me

Chopsy said:


> Hi This, thank you for your posts, I do appreciate it. How long was your wife away and what made her come out of the fog. I'm not desperate to R and a lot of things would need to change for me to consider it. I'm only keeping the door open as we've always been close. Our marriage wasn't perfect and I've taken responsibility for my role in it and what I contributed. Ive taken time to change who I am and am more confident and responsible for my own energy and happiness. It would be nice to hear what changed that gave you a chance to work on things.


You are welcome. I am very sorry this is happening to you. Just so you know I think you sound very healthy to me in your thinking. Very mature about this sad situation. It will help you however this ends up.

To answer your question how long. When I first heard the word Divorce, I was shocked, and made many mistakes which pushed her further away. Begging pleading, looking unattractive to her. I always left the door open, and encouraged MC, which we tried for months after, a bad MC stopped that. Then about 6 month later she up and walked out and left me for 4 months. Again convinced she wanted to D. Through period I had discovered the younger co-worker emails. EA.

I still knew the marriage we had before that was a good one, so After reading and rereading the book Divorce Remedy, I decided to wait it out. It all read like the depression called MLC. Convinced her to try MC again with a new one, which she did. She was stoic through the whole process, but I think it gave her a chance to clear the fog.

After 3.5 months of separation, doing MC and about a year after this all started, I decided I wanted my life back, with or without her, so I gave her a choice we either move toward R or D. R required she move back home and we work on it, D we would be going to the lawyer(s).

She took a step towards D and at the very last hour before I was off to the lawyer, she changed her mind.

She was still working through it and it took many more months till we really started to become the couple we once were, but in some ways we are better now than before. 

I think the sad part is family in friends. Many of those relationships will be tarnished forever, but the marriage is much more important in my eyes. 

Not sure if I answered your question. Please let me know if there is anything I can share to be helpful.

All the best to you!


----------



## Chopsy

Thanks This! Very helpful to hear your story. I'll reread Divorce Remedy,I kind of gave up on marriage books for a time. Did your wife ever say what changed her mind from asking for divorce to wanting to save the marriage? Im glad she did. I do hope for my husband's sake, regardless what happens, that he doesn't stay in MLC for long as I've read how some people never address their issues and stay in MLC for years. I'm so glad hes getting IC now and I hope he sticks with it. I've been asking him for years to see someone as just never seemed to be happy and had some anxiety issues as well as paranoia about people.

Thanks for the compliment regarding my maturity! Im ashamed to admit it but I was very reliant on my husband. I was very unhappy with myself too, and probably depressed for awhile. Still depressed but working on it. I now have friends and know I have to find happiness in me and not to expect anyone else to make me happy. I'm a better person than I was at the beginning of this. 

It's nice to talk with someone who gets it!


----------



## This is me

At that last hour when she decided to go from D to R, she finally showed some tearful emotion and said she fear she would love me forever. It could be picked apart, but the message I received was that she loved me still. Knowing her as well as I do, it was clear she was still confused and in the fog, and needed time for it to lift. 

It is a good sign he is in IC. If anything it will buy time till the clarity arrives.

Regarding your reliance on him. We all have that in any marriage. It can be taken to extremes, but I think it always appears worse in tough times, because we all trade off responsibilities that become normal till the relationship strays.

Treat yourself everyday to something as a reward for going through these tough days. You deserve it! I did.


----------



## WasDecimated

Dewayne76 said:


> I would normally have agreed to this. But my counselor once told me that she had seen many, many people very deeply in an obvious MLC, in their late 20's. My counselor said my wife could very well be in one, simply because of her mother.
> 
> My ExW's mother died when the exw was 6 years old. She lost her father just 2 years ago. My exw is a very emotional person when it comes to thinking, or talking about her mother. And she had ALWAYS mentioned hoping she never got that cancer.
> 
> My wife, excuse me, exwife, nver said it, but I know she fears dying young. In fac,t now that I think about it, during one of our talks, she mentioned not wanting to die soon. Just dawned on me as I was writing. I remember, it was when we were talking in the truck.
> 
> All in all, I do not believe there is an age restriction for MLC, if a person realizes mortality, they realize mortality. No matter the age. Age may be one factor that makes them react a certain way, who knows.


I don't believe there is an age limit on MLC. It is a product of your life experiences combined with some emotional weakness. 

My now ex-wife lost both of her parents...4 months apart several years ago. She was never the same after that. Her affair followed 9 months later. Losing her parents made her re-evaluate everything in her life...including our marriage. She was 38 at the time. She wouldn't open up and talk much but she did say things like she felt like an lonely orphan. She kept thinking about morality and that she didn't have much time left on earth. She wanted to live her life. It was a re-alignment of her values and priorities.

My own mother went through something similar but never left her marriage. After her grand mother died she went through what she describes as a MLC. She was only 31 at the time. She was unhappy with everything and felt a strong desire to walk away from my father and siblings. It lasted about 3 years for her and then she returned to her normal self. She, unlike my EX, had very strong religious beliefs that kept her from wandering off.

I believe that in our lives there are certain milestones, incidents, losses of loved ones, near death experiences...etc that can trigger a MLC in anyone especially people who are emotionally compromised in some way or have FOO issues. I also believe that lack of faith is a weakness.


----------



## Chopsy

This is me said:


> At that last hour when she decided to go from D to R, she finally showed some tearful emotion and said she fear she would love me forever. It could be picked apart, but the message I received was that she loved me still. Knowing her as well as I do, it was clear she was still confused and in the fog, and needed time for it to lift.
> 
> It is a good sign he is in IC. If anything it will buy time till the clarity arrives.
> 
> Regarding your reliance on him. We all have that in any marriage. It can be taken to extremes, but I think it always appears worse in tough times, because we all trade off responsibilities that become normal till the relationship strays.
> 
> Treat yourself everyday to something as a reward for going through these tough days. You deserve it! I did.


Thanks TIM, your posts just make me feel a little less insane and not so alone in this. xo


----------



## Chopsy

Decimated said:


> I don't believe there is an age limit on MLC. It is a product of your life experiences combined with some emotional weakness.
> 
> I believe that in our lives there are certain milestones, incidents, losses of loved ones, near death experiences...etc that can trigger a MLC in anyone especially people who are emotionally compromised in some way or have FOO issues. I also believe that lack of faith is a weakness.


Decimated, I totally agree with you and you put it so succinctly. I think my husband's dysfunctional childhood with alchoholic mother, mostly absent, often no food or heating, her many boyfriends etc, plus absent father had a bog impact on him. He's never been able to handle his emotions easily, he holds so much in. His mother died at 48.There is just him and his sister and I know he often thinks his sister doesn't care about him. His MLC has been building for years. I knew he wasn't happy in himself, very harsh and judgmental to himself. And his business going tits up and not even knowing who he was anymore I believe all contribute to it. 

I've gone through my own issues, have sought therapy and have always been open with my emotions. I know he didn't want to face himself and deal with his issues, but now finally, he is in IC. I just pray he sticks it out. Thanks for your post, clarified for me where MLC originates and how it develops.


----------



## This is me

Chopsy said:


> Thanks TIM, your posts just make me feel a little less insane and not so alone in this. xo


I feel for you. I think I might always remember the feeling during that period of time. This may sound weird, but there is a small part of me that looks back at it with....fondness, pride....not sure the word the describe it, but as sad, lonely, tough, etc I made it through as a better person, maybe wiser and stronger.

You will too!


----------



## WasDecimated

Chopsy said:


> Decimated, I totally agree with you and you put it so succinctly. I think my husband's dysfunctional childhood with alchoholic mother, mostly absent, often no food or heating, her many boyfriends etc, plus absent father had a bog impact on him. He's never been able to handle his emotions easily, he holds so much in. His mother died at 48.There is just him and his sister and I know he often thinks his sister doesn't care about him. His MLC has been building for years. I knew he wasn't happy in himself, very harsh and judgmental to himself. And his business going tits up and not even knowing who he was anymore I believe all contribute to it.


There are a lot of parallels with your husband and my ex-wife.

Her father was an alcoholic and had cheated on her mother many times and would stay out late drinking and sometimes would not even come home. There was plenty of fighting between her parents because of his behavior. He was emotionally absent and didn't express feelings. She finally divorced him after 14 years of this. Both of her parents died in their 50"s...young.

My parents, by contrast have been happily married for over 50 years, no cheating, drinking, disrespecting and are still very much alive and well into their 70's. I don't have the FOO issues that she has. My example growing up of a marriage and family was a healthy one.

My ex was never good at expressing emotions either and after they died she bottled up even more. She has one sister and they are not really close. There seems to be a lot of resentment from my wife for her sister. My EX was always jealous of her sister because she was always out going and had lots of friends...the center of attention. My EX was always quiet and on the shy side with only a few friends. She always wanted lots of friends and a big family. EX's sister is now very upset with EX for her cheating and destruction of our marriage.

My EX was always very close to her mother when she was alive. Her father...not nearly as much. After they died, she became like her father...not her mother. The need to go out often, the drinking, cheating, emotional distance...etc. This was very surprising to me because she always resented her father for what he did to her mother and their family when she was a child. I always thought she was like her mother which is a shame. Her mother was a saint of a woman. I miss her dearly.


----------



## Chopsy

This is me said:


> I feel for you. I think I might always remember the feeling during that period of time. This may sound weird, but there is a small part of me that looks back at it with....fondness, pride....not sure the word the describe it, but as sad, lonely, tough, etc I made it through as a better person, maybe wiser and stronger.
> 
> You will thanks. TIM. Just so damn low now. Hopefully six months from mow I will be feeling better, just have to get to the other side. Such a tough road some days,


----------



## Chopsy

Decimated said:


> There are a lot of parallels with your husband and my ex-wife.
> 
> Her father was an alcoholic and had cheated on her mother many times and would stay out late drinking and sometimes would not even come home. There was plenty of fighting between her parents because of his behavior. He was emotionally absent and didn't express feelings. She finally divorced him after 14 years of this. Both of her parents died in their 50"s...young.
> 
> My ex was never good at expressing emotions either and after they died she bottled up even more. She has one sister and they are not really close. There seems to be a lot of resentment from my wife for her sister. My EX was always jealous of her sister because she was always out going and had lots of friends...the center of attention. My EX was always quiet and on the shy side with only a few friends. She always wanted lots of friends and a big family. EX's sister is now very upset with EX for her cheating and destruction of our marriage.
> 
> My EX was always very close to her mother when she was alive. Her father...not nearly as much. After they died, she became like her father...not her mother. The need to go out often, the drinking, cheating, emotional distance...etc. This was very surprising to me because she always resented her father for what he did to her mother and their family when she was a child. I always thought she was like her mother which is a shame. Her mother was a saint of a woman. I miss her dearly.


My H always wanted a bg family. He has just his sister and two nephews. He think none of them care for me anymore. Didn't help that I couldn't have children due to a medical condition. Maybe we should have considered adoption more than we did, but then there would be a child in pain so best it's just me. 

I take it your ex never faced her demons then?


----------



## WasDecimated

Chopsy said:


> My H always wanted a bg family. He has just his sister and two nephews. He think none of them care for me anymore. Didn't help that I couldn't have children due to a medical condition. Maybe we should have considered adoption more than we did, but then there would be a child in pain so best it's just me.
> 
> I take it your ex never faced her demons then?


Sadly, she never did. I tried for over a year to get her to see a therapist. She finally did but quit after a month or so. She never showed any empathy for me and the pain she dropped on me. She never showed any real remorse, honesty, openness or told me the truth about her affair either. It was something she guarded closely and kept to herself. She would rather blame me for all of her problems and her cheating as well. I will never know the full extent of it but I did find out way more then enough to justify divorce. I believe she fell in love with him and out of love with me although she would never admit that much. She claims that he dumped her which I don't believe. I guess time will tell if there was any truth to that. Our divorce was final only 3 weeks ago. The court gave her until May to move out of my house and find her own place. 

I couldn't give my Ex a big family either. We do have 3 kids but my extended family is small. I did find out that part of the fantasy for her was OM's big family. She wanted to be part of it...even know she never met any of them.


----------



## Chopsy

Oh she still lives with you? Sad business for you both. Must have been very hard for you to not even get any remorse from her. Not sure if i ever eill, tho i knoe my H feels very guilty. One day reality will hit her between the eyes. I think a year is my cut off too. I have a biggish family, immediate family small but lots of aunts and uncles and loads of cousins and my h always was a bit jealous of it. They're all I'm Canada and I'm in the UK. I said its one thing to have a big family but it doesn't mean you will feel close to any of them. It's like a fantasy he couldn't stop believing in but it isn't always like that. I'm not close to my brother or hardly any of my cousins.


----------



## Isuck

I think time heals all. There is no way you can put an age range on an MLC. Yes it's depression too, but every situation is unique. It sounds like you want him back. DO you really or do you not want to be alone? I had to ask myself that when my STBXW, (age 37), started going through her MLC. When something is taken away from you, your intial reaction is WANT IT MORE. That feeling subsides over time though. You realize that you don't really want the person back, you want your old life back. Well the truth is your old life does not exist anymore. It's gone and even an R will not bring it back. There will always be looming doubt, looming feelings of distrust and anger. You're human, it's natural.

I think you need to give him time and space. You cannot rush people in that fog. The fog has to lift on its own. THEN if you want them back still, go for it. But don't force the issue. The best thing you can do right now is put YOURSELF first. If you haven't started dating, go on some. Yes you'll find some real jerks, but you'll meet some really nice people too. You may even meet someone who gives you that old loving feeling again. That feeling where you can't wait to see them and are excited to be around them. Where you want to just make them happy because they make you so happy. It does happen and there's more then one person as a mate on this earth that can do it for you.

People change and there's a million reasons why people cheat, but that doesn't change the fact that they took an "easy route" out of a relationship. That person did it because they're weak. Instead of dealing with the issues and facing their problems head on, they ran. Cheating is a way out for them. They can piss off their partner and get out scott free by playing the victim card. I know this as I've lived it.


----------



## Chopsy

I would like him back. I know it wouldn;t be the same, but I still want the chance, but whether my husband gives us the chance is another thing. Good advice about the fog. I will try to back off more. I haven't forced anything and have been very easy going in any interactions with him. I've been really struggling lately, can't believe how much it still hurts, almost five months now. I know I am an idiot to care so much but I can't help it. I want him to deal with his issues and become the person he wants to be, but I also want him to consider giving our marriage a second chance. But it probably won't happen and that just breaks my heart into a million pieces.


----------



## Isuck

He's not thinking of you right now. He's thinking of one person, himself. He's being selfish and thinks he's entitled to be selfish because of whatever reasons he's got in his head. Perception is reality and you are both perceiving things very differently at this point.

No matter what you do at this point, it's not going to matter because the fog is blinding to him. It's so hard to stop trying but you can only put yourself through so much. I set a date called my give up date. It came to be and I gave up. But it allowed me to prepare for the giving up. I tried my ass off up until that date, then knew if nothing was happening by that point, I was not going to be the pursuer anymore. I became the distancer. It worked but I don't care anymore either. I found that there are plenty of fish in the sea and you simply cannot rely on other people for your own happiness.

Your happiness is up to you and you only.


----------



## lost95112

Chopsy said:


> I would like him back. I know it wouldn;t be the same, but I still want the chance


This is a very hard place to be. I have been in this limbo S somewhat working to R but never just getting it right. I want my W back but I am closing on the end one way or another. 

I saw a PC who helped me understand wanting her or worried about being alone. Reducing contact, turning the cell phone off, removing myself from email made it clear to me what I wanted. It became easier to go through this exercise after a couple of times. 

The hard part is when you have to make the choice cause the other person hasnt the courage to do it even if the had the affair.


----------

