# Not sure what to do about my wife



## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

As the topic says, I have reached a point with my wife where I do not know how to move forward. We have dozens of issues in our marriage, yet it has held together. The biggest issue we have faced over the years is trust. I have kept hoping that she will help me to trust her, but it just isn't working.

The first time that I really started having this issue was a few years ago. I had been picking her up at her mother's after I got off work. She had gone back to school and it was easy to walk there, so she would just hang out until I got off.

I was suspicious of her and got off early one day. I drove down an hour ahead of time. I got there and texted her asking, "where are you now, I will be down soon." She responded that she was at her mother's house. So, I knocked on the door to surprise her. She was not there.

I called her and she was caught in the lie. I told her that I would come to her, but she insisted it was only a block away and that I needed to wait there. It took her 40 minutes to return. She never gave a good answer other than she was talking with some friends. Yet, why not simply say that in the first place instead of lying about the location?

Anyway, that was a while back, to set context. Those are the types of lies that happen. She seems unwilling to admit to them. I feel like she is a habitual liar. Without wasting any more time, I will jump right into the mess this week that is about ruining my marriage.

She had her old phone here when I was off all day. I was playing with it. She usually makes sure it isn't laying around, which makes me suspicious to start with. It didn't take long for bad things to just start piling up, as I looked through it.

First, I found a text to her friend. It is apple, so everything still updates and links to icloud with recent activity. She mentions to her friend about a guy she has been talking with. She mentions that they used to talk 16 hours a day, I assume via text or anonymous chat services.

I am not sure how many random "friends" she has actively had, but it seems totally improper to have new guy friends who merit that kind of time and attention. To my knowledge, they have not been local, so they likely aren't meeting up.

Next, I found media. She has one video that is full frontal touching herself down below. It is about 10 seconds long. She has a few black screen videos that I can hear her masturbating. There are black screen videos of us having sex (I am sure it is us.) She also has a few videos of a guy masturbating with video. On top of that, there are audio files of a guy saying tell me when to finish. Finally, there are images of her exposed breast taking from above looking down in bed.

So, let's just start with these. I confronted her about these things. To the video of her lower region, she insists that video was just to look at things. She was "curious." She always has an excuse for anything that I question. The video was months old. I feel like, if you took a video to have a look or be curious, you would delete it not long after. I mean, being it is you, you can just look again any time. It seems like the only reason to save it would be to share it.

She insists the black screen masturbation and us having sex were complete accidents. She must have bumped something and they recorded. I feel like this would be nearly impossible. How would you not notice them when you did turn it back on? How would you not notice them for months eventually stored there? Also, in one case, the masturbation is directly at the same time frame of the male video. She has no answer, but says it is just coincidence. 

Frankly, I am very angry that our sex has been recorded without my knowledge and feel like it has to be very unlikely to accidentally record that and never notice at all. I told her that it seems really unlikely that all these things are just coincidence. I said, what is more likely... all those being coincidence or that they are somehow connected? She agreed, but insisted I was wrong.

As for the breast pictures, she also insists those were just to take a look, as she is pregnant now. I guess the multiple mirrors in the house don't work well enough? Again, why take them and not delete them, if you don't plan to share? It is only one set of them. It isn't like she has progress or a timeline of them saved to see a difference.

Finally, I found text documents saved in her cloud notes. They are erotic stories. I decided to confront her without disclosing all the information that I knew. That information being that I knew the story referred to our house because of indicators in it. I also knew they referred to her. They are extremely graphic and sexual. They refer to a male named "papi."

First off, I asked her if she wrote them and what they were. She said that her friend wrote them for a website and she just copied and pasted it because it was funny. So, there is lie one for sure.

I said, did your friend write them about you? No. There is Lie two.

So, I asked, why does the story refer to our house? She insists it doesn't. It is just coincidence again. I pointed out various specific reasons why it had to be her and our house. She then admits, the girl must have been inspired by her. (Lie Three).

I stated that there was no way this girl would know these things and that I am not stupid... I know you wrote this. I told her that I would give her a break and she just needed to at least concede that it was a collaboration and she wrote some of it. Finally, she admits that much, which still I think is a lie insomuch as I think she wrote it all.

Next, I ask... did you send these to your guy friend? She refuses to admit any of the images or recordings went to him. As for the text, she tried to say no. So, I just decided to say straight forward, give me your new phone. She agreed.

Oddly, all chat prior to the previous day was gone. If you know her, she is OCD about saving stuff and only deletes stuff when needed. Yet, I got lucky. There was text to this guy... all clean chat, but it starts off with, "good morning papi." So, I know she is linked right there.

That forced her to admit that he did receive some of the story. At this point, I had to catch her up over and over to get her to admit the slightest things. I have a few questions, if you were able to read this all.... sorry for the length, but it isn't easy to state it all.

First, what do you think about her calling this guy Papi? She is white. Does this imply some sort of more intimate relationship between them? Her excuse is that it is the nickname his friends use, so she just uses it too. I feel like that is a lie. My understanding of the context and name would be that you use it with someone like a boyfriend.

As for the entire set of things. I told her that I was not going to be angry and I just wanted to truth. I told her that I felt that I could not longer trust her at all and if she didn't start sharing, things would not just go back to normal. Yet, she still has basically admitted nothing.

I am stuck. It is possible that some of these things are true and innocent. Yet, it feel like she is just a compulsive liar and that it may be hopeless to ever get her to be honest and truthful with me. Even when told that I would not be angry and having every assurance she would be forgiven, she just is not able to stop lying.

I only manage to prove small lies, but it seems like that is enough to justify that she has no boundaries in terms of when to stop lying or what to never withhold from me. I have a kid on the way. I haven't proven any major lies. I don't want to leave her right now, but I don't know how to address this issue.

PS: thanks to anyone who took the time to fully read and consider my plight. I have no real place to express this stuff and try to find answers to move forward. We have been together 15 years and married 6. It isn't like this is year 2 of a relationship where it is easy to just walk away. It is just I am finally started to realize the lying is and has been a major problem.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

If no kids, I would demand total disclosure and no more passwords etc. Or you are moving on. 

She needs to have a mighty change of heart or more on. She thinks you are an idiot.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Tortdog said:


> If no kids, I would demand total disclosure and no more passwords etc. Or you are moving on.
> 
> She needs to have a mighty change of heart or more on. She thinks you are an idiot.


I agree and I told her no more "friends." I said, I am your husband and you should be devoting that time to talking to me. Her excuse is she can't sleep and she needs people to talk to at 1-3 am. At this point, there is no room to allow any of that.

Our marriage problems have always revolved around her phone. She can't even put it down to watch a movie in bed. If it isn't texting, it is playing some stupid game. I also caught her spending hundred of dollars on the stupid phone games, which she tried to lie about.

But, it started years back when she started locking and acting fishy with her phone. She would get very mad if I snooped into it or got past her password, so I made her a deal.... I never lock mine or care if she looks. So I said, you stop locking it and I will not try to look... which I honored for the last year. I just could not help taking a look at this old one to rest my mind. Clearly, that trust I showed her was unfounded.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Oh dear I am not surprised that you cant trust her.


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## Americon187 (May 5, 2016)

I am dealing with similar things. Come to find out wife was cheating. I never had access to her phone for 3-4years now. But I caught her in lies thanks to the Chevy we own and onstar. I pulled numbers up on the phone records and check everything even FB were I got a hit of a number she text thousands. To a man. And I found on white pages his address where her car was a lot. the address was the same man. I did this all for free. We are currently trying to save the marriage but it's on its last straw.shes cheating one way or another. Getting a woman to admit is hard as hell. Mine Denied even though the price was dead on tell the guy went crazy and she confessed. For safety probably or for our relationship idk yet. That's were I am now.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Why stay?


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Americon187 said:


> I am dealing with similar things. Come to find out wife was cheating. I never had access to her phone for 3-4years now. But I caught her in lies thanks to the Chevy we own and onstar. I pulled numbers up on the phone records and check everything even FB were I got a hit of a number she text thousands. To a man. And I found on white pages his address where her car was a lot. the address was the same man. I did this all for free. We are currently trying to save the marriage but it's on its last straw.shes cheating one way or another. Getting a woman to admit is hard as hell. Mine Denied even though the price was dead on tell the guy went crazy and she confessed. For safety probably or for our relationship idk yet. That's were I am now.


I am sorry that you caught her cheating. If I had done that, I would feel a little better. At least it would be hard evidence. It seems like it took you a lot of work to get there though. My issue is that she is so random. If there were set patterns or something, but this stuff is always so well hidden. She will go months acting normal and doing nothing suspicious.

The last random time, she had to go visit a her girlfriend and talk at 10PM. I had to be up early for surgery and it was rude to leave. I was so mad that I just went out and followed her. I sat at her friends house an hour, hidden. I was waiting for her to say she was leaving there and get proof she lied.

Well, an hour later, her friend pulls in. Fifteen minutes later, my wife calls me asking where I am at. She is already home. She then tells me she met her friend at a nearby walmart and talked.

Her friend did pull in, which checked out. I looked in her car, there are timemarked receipts from walmart. So, it was another case of me finding nothing and just being stressed out. If she was lying, she went to a lot of effect to cover it up.

But she used to always pull out stuff like 4 am trip to shop. It would be so random. Like it wasn't weekly. It would be like once in six months. Stuff like that where I can't predict it or keep an eye out.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Was the pregnancy planned? You know enough to realize she enjoys doing online slap-and-tickle at the very least. Maybe not a full-blown PA, but this doesn't sound good at all. And there may be a lot more that you don't even know about.

When did you fully realize she was lying to you and hiding this sort of stuff? I apologize if you specified when, but I might have overlooked that in your post.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Why stay?


That is a good question. I guess because we have been through a lot and I hate giving up on something. We lost multiple pregnancies over the years. She is pregnant now. I kind of just want things to be happily ever after. Yet, because of these trust issues, I feel I need to do a DNA test. Assuming that is good, I am hoping that she has less time and motivation to turn focus anywhere else.

I do not believe she wants to leave. I am not sure why she lies. Yet, it is possible she just gets bored or needs more in her life. We just have a lot of discuss and work through. The problem is that we cannot start doing that if she won't open up more. I guess I still have hope that I can figure out how to get her to open up with me.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Was the pregnancy planned? You know enough to realize she enjoys doing online slap-and-tickle at the very least. Maybe not a full-blown PA, but this doesn't sound good at all. And there may be a lot more that you don't even know about.
> 
> When did you fully realize she was lying to you and hiding this sort of stuff? I apologize if you specified when, but I might have overlooked that in your post.


It was not unplanned. As I said in another reply... which wasn't posted prior to your response... we have had bad luck with pregnancy. We have been trying on and off.

I suspected she was up to something around Christmas. She had this app called whisper. Private message notifications kept popping up on her phone. As I said, I promised not to look. So, I just googled this app thinking it was maybe a cheating app.

I downloaded it and looked around. I know my wife really well, so I could figure out what posts were her. She was confessing stuff that really made me angry and uncomfortable. Two examples...

1) "Sex is like a catch 22, the more I get the more I want."
At the time, we were having sex a lot and trying for a kid. So, it made sense in terms of us. Yet, why tell the world and almost solicit the responses that guys would make to that.

2) "I can't sleep right now because I need an orgasm"
Posted on one night of rest where we didn't have sex. Again, seeming to solicit responses.

So, I feared she was looking for more. As usually, she said it was innocent confessions and everyone at work used it. So, she was just trying it out. She said that when guys started bothering her, she deleted them. She did delete the app after I got mad.

So, it wasn't until a few months later, she admitted to having these guys friends who moved from whisper to kik to keep talking.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Hi, sorry you are in this situation. 
First of all I would get a DNA on this baby that is due. 
Second she has to agree to cut off all contacts with this weirdo pervert "Papi" 
Does she want to save & be in this marriage? 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You're wife is addicted to having emotional affairs. You need to have full access to her phone, email, etc. Definitely need marriage counseling if this marriage has any hope, which is very little. She still could go underground and hide it though. Has she told you why she talks to other men? Is she missing out on something from your marriage?

Is she worth keeping? Doesn't sound like it.


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## Americon187 (May 5, 2016)

rundownandtired said:


> Americon187 said:
> 
> 
> > I am dealing with similar things. Come to find out wife was cheating. I never had access to her phone for 3-4years now. But I caught her in lies thanks to the Chevy we own and onstar. I pulled numbers up on the phone records and check everything even FB were I got a hit of a number she text thousands. To a man. And I found on white pages his address where her car was a lot. the address was the same man. I did this all for free. We are currently trying to save the marriage but it's on its last straw.shes cheating one way or another. Getting a woman to admit is hard as hell. Mine Denied even though the price was dead on tell the guy went crazy and she confessed. For safety probably or for our relationship idk yet. That's were I am now.
> ...



Sry to hear man. I feel your pain. I hope to find closure and everything works out. If not for you at least.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

rundownandtired said:


> As usually, she said it was innocent confessions and everyone at work used it. So, she was just trying it out. She said that when guys started bothering her, she deleted them. She did delete the app after I got mad.
> 
> So, it wasn't until a few months later, she admitted to having these guys friends who moved from whisper to kik to keep talking.


Everyone at work used it?!? WTF???? I work in an office where this type of discussion would be considered disgusting, to say the least. How does she know what everyone else is doing with their sex lives or online chat lives? I call total bull sh!t on that explanation.

So it sounds like you have a wife who gets off on diddling herself online with other online "friends." Cheating, but from a distance. JMO.

I feel for you, because this woman doesn't sound like mother material. I just have this gut feeling that this entire situation is going to tank. Why? Because I don't think your wife is going to turn into a saint when she gives birth. I feel for you. And, most of all, I feel for that innocent unborn child. Definitely have a DNA test performed.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

If you read enough post here you will notice one main thing that cheaters do...they lie. 

Some are good at it, others suck at it. Your wife sucks at lying. 

Once a lie starts, it needs to be followed up by another lie. To keep that first lie going. 

She says this:
-------------------------------------------------------
"Sex is like a catch 22, the more I get the more I want."
At the time, we were having sex a lot and trying for a kid. So, it made sense in terms of us. Yet, why tell the world and almost solicit the responses that guys would make to that.

2) "I can't sleep right now because I need an orgasm"
Posted on one night of rest where we didn't have sex. Again, seeming to solicit responses.

So, I feared she was looking for more. As usually, she said it was innocent confessions and everyone at work used it. So, she was just trying it out. She said that when guys started bothering her, she deleted them. She did delete the app after I got mad.

So, it wasn't until a few months later, she admitted to having these guys friends who moved from whisper to kik to keep talking.
------------------------------------------------------

Buddy, she is a attention seeker from men and this is how she gets it. 

NOT wife material. 

I'd DNA that unborn kid as soon as you can. 

If you think you have trust issues, then you DO have trust issues. She's getting mad because you're crimping her lifestyle wanting to be a single woman who is married. 

Honestly, you really need to seek consult from a lawyer and see where you stand if/when you divorce this woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BBF (May 21, 2015)

Google papi porn. I think you'll see what your wife is getting at with her "Papi." She got some " 'splaning to do."


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK I will try and simply what you have said here:



Your wife is not trustworthy and is a habitual liar. She is also good at deceit.


You wife is a fairly sexual person and sex with you isn't enough for her.


Your wife is having at least one affair with Papi and maybe others too.


The chances are high that it is a physical affair.


You absolutely need to DNA the kid when it arrives and before signing the birth certificate.


You are dealing with this in a very passive manner. You need to find out more evidence without tipping your hand and then blow this up.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I will try and simply what you have said here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let's add one more:

[*] You absolutely need to get yourself to a doctor and get checked for diseases

[*] Bonus addition - Talk to a lwyer. Start finding out your rights


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Oh dear Lord...
@rundownandtired, your wife is cheating.

Get the old phone and run data recovery against it.

If you have children, DNA them, _especially_ the one that she's carrying now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

rundownandtired said:


> I guess I still have hope that I can figure out how to get her to open up with me.


THAT, will not happen. Please understand that right now.

I wasted months and over a thousand dollars (even with insurance) on a therapist. Waste of time and money except for ONE thing he said to me. ONE time he broke out of his annoying therapist act, relaxed into regular guy mode for a second and said, and I'm paraphrasing:

"Dude, she's not going to come clean. Get used to it".

It wasn't a magic moment. It wasn't an immediate "A-HA!" type thing. But it helped to put me on a pretty quick trajectory towards doing just that. I now 100% accept she will never talk to me about ANYTHING important. And I adapt my life to it accordingly. You may handle it differently, but accepting it is first.**

Just out of curiosity, do you think she still loves you?



**MINOR THREADJACK. 

Before EVERYBODY calls me a *****, please understand that I deliberately use it to my advantage. And I live my life accordingly. She doesn't want to talk about how much weed I may or may not smoke, so she doesn't ask. She doesn't snoop into our joint account that she can have full access to at any time. Or ask where I was when I stumble in drunk at 3:30. 

And besides all of the other advantages of being able to do that without destroying many lives of people I love dearly, I still can get sex any time I want it. I don't take it often. It's too rapey when it's duty sex. But it's there when I need it. She wouldn't want to have to talk about why she rejects me, so she doesn't.

Life is compromise. I'm good with mine.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Life is compromise. I'm good with mine.


I'd hardly call that a life. 

Unless you're referring to a life without parole.

Sorry, you've settle for a prison sentence.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> Sorry, you've settle for a prison sentence.


I can do what I want, when I want and with whom I want. I'd hardly call that a prison sentence. And if she puts her foot down, I am 100% emotionally prepared to leave.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I am 100% emotionally prepared to leave.


If you were you would of left already.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I can understand wanting everything to be fine in the end, the problems to stop and life happily ever after to start. But, the problem don't go away they get worse. It doesn't seem to me that she really wants to be in the marriage anymore and if that's the case I'm not sure she's really worth all your tons of effort anymore. She seem to be content just being with and talking to other guys.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Not sure what to do? Divorce her.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Your wife might not be physically cheating but she is cheating nonetheless. SHe is a horrible human being!!

Do you notice how she is gas lighting you?

Do you notice the manipulation?

Do you notice the narcissistic tendencies?

o.m.g... why do you stay? You can't salvage this marriage. The longer you continue in this marriage, the more paranoid you will become.
Soon you will not believe your self!! 

Horrible way to live life... I know! I have been there!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

My exH was a chronic liar. Note the "ex" part.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

MrsAldi said:


> Hi, sorry you are in this situation.
> First of all I would get a DNA on this baby that is due.
> Second she has to agree to cut off all contacts with this weirdo pervert "Papi"
> Does she want to save & be in this marriage?
> ...


Sorry for the delayed replies to everyone. I work a lot. I do plan to test the DNA. I told her that this situation is done and she needs to stop. We will see if that happens.

The funny thing is that she seems to be acting like nothing happened now. I know she is guilty for one fact. She isn't mad at all that I went through her stuff and called her out. If it was innocent at all or whatever, she would at least be angry about it. The fact that she is just playing it cool seems to suggest a lot more guilt she doesn't want to talk about.

As for the marriage, I am up in the air. She has always seemed happy with our marriage. She seems to love me on the surface. All her friends, coworkers, and family believe she loves me completely. She always kisses me and goes out of her way to say I love you, for the most part.

Honestly, I support her and pay all the bills. I am a little scared she might be playing it cool and talking to a lawyer. I could see her trying to get my money from me and have all the support with none of the commitment. I am not sure. I do not know how devious she is. Her love and affection would be like a spider for all I know right now.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> You're wife is addicted to having emotional affairs. You need to have full access to her phone, email, etc. Definitely need marriage counseling if this marriage has any hope, which is very little. She still could go underground and hide it though. Has she told you why she talks to other men? Is she missing out on something from your marriage?
> 
> Is she worth keeping? Doesn't sound like it.


I do believe she is addicted to emotional affairs. Even with women, non-sexually, she gets attached and seems to feed on attention. I will not ever pay for marriage counseling. I just don't believe in it. It would take decades just to get the counselor up to speed on everything, so that can have a remotely valid opinion.

My fear is always that she will hide better any time I bring something up. I think what I notice most in our long term is that she just goes dormant a while. Things seem good for a few months or even a year, then it sneak back up.

She has not directly said why, but she did say he makes her feel pretty. She is so needy for attention. I work my butt off to provide for us. She doesn't seem to appreciate that beyond liking not having to work and share some responsibility.

She was mad recently when I got into an argument about finances. I just flat out told her that she could not afford our house or standard of living when I die. She has not proven the ability or responsibility to handle bills and upkeep. Instead of understanding that I only care that she improve to the point of being stable on her own, she gets offended that I am not the ideal 50's husband who supports her and expects in no way that she is capable.

I love her talk of making her feel good and special though. I do my fair share of trying to be supportive and say nice things... yet, when we moved to this house, I only had a push mower. I had to do 4 acres of yard myself. She barely kept the house clean, did dishes once a week... basically, slacked off totally to the point where I would just do that stuff too. All she really did was pretend to help.

Never once did she say, the yard looks really good or every try to make me feel good and appreciated. I love how she feels that it is not a two way street. Somehow, I don't have the right to feel slighted or upset, if it means her not getting attention without having to contribute some of her own.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Everyone at work used it?!? WTF???? I work in an office where this type of discussion would be considered disgusting, to say the least. How does she know what everyone else is doing with their sex lives or online chat lives? I call total bull sh!t on that explanation.
> 
> So it sounds like you have a wife who gets off on diddling herself online with other online "friends." Cheating, but from a distance. JMO.
> 
> I feel for you, because this woman doesn't sound like mother material. I just have this gut feeling that this entire situation is going to tank. Why? Because I don't think your wife is going to turn into a saint when she gives birth. I feel for you. And, most of all, I feel for that innocent unborn child. Definitely have a DNA test performed.


She is a hair dresser. So, it makes sense they are like that partly. I find that affairs and stuff are more common with those types from stories that I do hear. But, her exact excuse was they were sharing an account. That is her excuse with the phone too. Her friend is supposedly to blame for some stuff, which I doubt. I think she just comes up with what she believes to be viable excuses and does not seem to understand that they are not well thought out and won't really sell when she tries to feed them to me.

I do agree that things won't suddenly change. If I am going to be honest, she is a ****ty person. I cannot control her. She was supposed to stop smoking. She sneaks and smokes anyway. I hate her for that. The more we go on with this, the more I am completely sick of being around her. She knows how much this means to me and she can't stop being selfish and there isn't much I can do.

I guess that you keep hoping someone will step up and be good, until it finally hits you that they are not.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

BBF said:


> Google papi porn. I think you'll see what your wife is getting at with her "Papi." She got some " 'splaning to do."


I did google it, but didn't find much specific. I talked to my friend from Texas. She told me that there is about zero reason she would refer to this guy that way in any non-sexual reference. Also, she said there is zero chance that his friends gave him that nickname, as a guy would never say that to another guy.

I am curious... is it possible that she is calling him "papi" in some reference to him possibly being the father of the child? I still have no clue if they met or how far away he is.

This is really my issue. Is her affair emotional and chat only, or has she crossed over to physical. I am fairly certain that her not refraining from further contact would imply she has a bigger stake in this than she should.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I will try and simply what you have said here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sir, have given, perhaps, the best and most straight forward advice. She is very good at deceit and seems to be a habitual liar. I just find myself not wanting to believe that or thinking I am just misjudging the situation and her.

I find it interesting that you say she is fairly sexual. Her friend also said this to me. It is an odd thing to say. I would assume our sex would have been enough. She always finishes. Usually, many times. As I briefly said, back around conception, we were having sex for six hours some nights. I get that some guys have an over inflated idea of their own ability, but I am certain that she was enjoying herself. 

She just seems to always want more. She would say, after a long night, she was still turned on most of the day. She is the type of person that will have sex again the next or multiple times a day, unlike some women. Perhaps, there is more to it than I even know.

I am not sure if the affair is physical. For as much as I know, he lives 14 hours away. She doesn't deviate that much from routine that she just disappears or isn't accounted for. It would be really hard to verify a time when she might be up to something physical. Of course, she is home a lot more than me and he might live closer for all I know.

At work, she is always getting hit on. I do wonder there too. One guy was bringing her food. One pipeline worker came specifically to see her weekly for a haircut and would invite her to his room, which she says she always declined. All the time, she is getting hit on and offers. She loves the attention, which I assumed was healthy and innocent.

As for the DNA, she has acted strange and overly outgoing with these type of weird situations every time before and around when she has gotten pregnant. In all fairness, I got tested to make sure I could even manage the job. I thought that might prove she is guilty. It turns out I am around 50/50. It isn't great, but the chance is still there. Still, she always seem to be acting fishy right about the time she turns up pregnant.

I already tipped my hat and talked about this. You are right though. I need to get more evidence and finally end this back and forth. I can't keep living this way. I just don't know how to get what I need. What I need is physical proof. If I knew she physically cheated at all, I would be 100% ready to walk away. As much as it sucks, the emotional cheating just doesn't justify not trying honor and salvage the vows of marriage. I have too much honor for my own good.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Oh dear Lord...
> 
> @rundownandtired, your wife is cheating.
> 
> ...


Can you explain this data recovery more? I feel like you are mistaken, but hope you have a good point. Most data anymore is cloud based. It isn't on the physical device. She chats on kik. It doesn't save locally. Most data in general would take a court order and I would need to be law enforcement I believe. Apple wouldn't even help the FBI. without passwords and the whole lot, I believe that information is not going to be exposed.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

She is a liar. She doesn't respect you and she will lie til the day you die or divorce her. It may not happen now, but she will leave you if you don't leave her. Maybe in 10 years. There is a subset of people that are so narcissistic that they can keep this going on for as long as they get everything they want out of it. Maybe you don't want to leave her yet. I get that, I really do. But she isn't involved in your marriage, she seems like a **** wife, she is going to be a **** mother and really, you'd be best to cut ties now and deal with the aftermath of part time dad, assuming it's yours. It sucks. It always sucks.

You know what sucks more? Spending your waking hours hunting **** down, wondering, checking phones and computers and phone bills and text messages. Finding nothing, but still doing it because you never ****ing know. I am an IT guy and I ****ing hate this ****.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

rundownandtired said:


> Can you explain this data recovery more? I feel like you are mistaken, but hope you have a good point. Most data anymore is cloud based. It isn't on the physical device. She chats on kik. It doesn't save locally. Most data in general would take a court order and I would need to be law enforcement I believe. Apple wouldn't even help the FBI. without passwords and the whole lot, I believe that information is not going to be exposed.


If the uses kik, there ain't much you can do. Mine used Line. However, if she was texting, even with a friend about the guy, back her phone up, then use iPhone backup extractor. It's free and you can read deleted texts. It's not pretty, but you can work your way through it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you think she still loves you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know if she loves me. As I said prior, she seems to. She plays the roll. I just feel like it might be an act. She is kind of good at this stuff. I feel like may be capable of fooling anyone. She decides what she wants people to see and sticks to it. It scares me some, if my feeling is completely right about her.

I like your hijack. What you say is her to a T ironically. She also has smoked too much. I am not stupid enough to give her a join account. As it is, she blows all her money and have massive debt. I feel she also likes the stability and situation. Perhaps, this is her compromise...

I have my reasons. She was in massive depression a while. I am too good of a person at times. I felt like leaving her would lead to her being dead. I wanted her to get on her feet. I have always loved her, even if part of me also hates her at times. I have a sense of loyalty and duty that I cannot dishonor.

My happiness, and I know most people can't understand this, comes second to my integrity. If I were to not support her or have her fail because I stepped out of her life, I would not be able to recover from that. I would need to reach a point where I felt my obligation had ended for valid reasons, such as she went outside the marriage physically.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Herschel said:


> If the uses kik, there ain't much you can do. Mine used Line. However, if she was texting, even with a friend about the guy, back her phone up, then use iPhone backup extractor. It's free and you can read deleted texts. It's not pretty, but you can work your way through it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can try to do that, but she has since hidden the phone away. I believe she didn't expect me to get into it to start with. She often underestimates me. She had it dead and unable to start. I had to charge though the computer to even get it to load and start up.

She is like that. Her phone goes everywhere with her. She has it in the shower, with the excuse of listening to music etc. She has it on playing stuff at bed and tucked in with her. It never leaves her side. She doesn't really leave it unguarded. The old one will likely never be accessible again. It is a very rare chance where I get access.

It is a huge conspiracy theory, put I partly feel she plans it. She knew there isn't enough evidence. She left it to find and figured she would win by having me call her out and reach a bunch of dead ends that I could not connect, then I would maybe give up a while or get frustrated.

I mean, it is a lot bigger risks, were I to find massive logs that aren't altered or anything. Funny to me that she just happened to have all the kik chat already deleted prior to that day. In my mind, she knew I would call her out and ask to see it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

rundownandtired said:


> Can you explain this data recovery more? I feel like you are mistaken, but hope you have a good point. *Most data anymore is cloud based. It isn't on the physical device. She chats on kik. It doesn't save locally.* Most data in general would take a court order and I would need to be law enforcement I believe. Apple wouldn't even help the FBI. without passwords and the whole lot, I believe that information is not going to be exposed.


Eh... that's hit or miss. Often enough, though, there's something on the device that can be recovered. Google "Wondershare Dr. Fone" and "iPhone Backup Extractor" to see if either of them can recover data from Kik. IIRC, neither of them can, but they _can_ recover from some 3rd-party apps (SnapChat, WhatsApp, etc), and they're updated all the time.

If you're willing to get a bit more daring, you could jailbreak the device and then download something from the Cydia store (or elsewhere) that might get even more information. Careful w/ that, though, because you could very well wind up installing something developed by a decidedly less-than-altruistic developer. Also, some of those 3rd-party apps can be spendy.

And I'm not talking about getting a court order, getting Apple, or the police, or whatever government entity to help you w/ this, because that's not going to happen.

I'm talking about recovering the data yourself.

By the way, what kind of phone do _you_ use?


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... that's hit or miss. Often enough, though, there's something on the device that can be recovered. Google "Wondershare Dr. Fone" and "iPhone Backup Extractor" to see if either of them can recover data from Kik. IIRC, neither of them can, but they _can_ recover from some 3rd-party apps (SnapChat, WhatsApp, etc), and they're updated all the time.
> 
> If you're willing to get a bit more daring, you could jailbreak the device and then download something from the Cydia store (or elsewhere) that might get even more information. Careful w/ that, though, because you could very well wind up installing something developed by a decidedly less-than-altruistic developer. Also, some of those 3rd-party apps can be spendy.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. My point was that it would take that to get full access. I would guess that most recovery will not get me anything useful. There is a company that can basically hijack the iphone. They give you full access to all apps, location, calls, etc. You can even activate the camera remotely or listen in. If I really wanted, I would just pay them. The hard part is that you need the icloud password, which i don't have. You also need direct access for a few minutes to the phone, which I was debating if the second phone would work, but I didn't have time before she got home to check into it fully.

Honestly, I just hate not knowing. It isn't that I want to become a spy or whatever. I do kind of find that it distracts me from work and life sucking, but it isn't something I want to keep having to do. I just wish I could get a clear picture of things and not be left wondering with zero doubt. I guess that is what a relationship should be.

I really hope I get more feedback on this whole papi situation. I still feel like her calling him that is some subversive thing where she is crediting him as the father. Insight into how to get to the bottom of that situation is really what I hoped to find. It isn't like I can easy google answers to why would someone be doing that. I get the sexual part of "who is your daddy." I just feel like it implies more of a relationship or suggests he is a bigger part of her life when just chat friend.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Do you have any other children w/ your wife?


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Do you have any other children w/ your wife?


Nope. As I had said, we had issues with all of them. The worst was a stillbirth, which is why I give her a lot of slack. She bled out on the table and had to get an immediate transfusion. In all fairness, you have to really credit a woman who puts herself there for you and carries on after still trying.

The last before this was ectopic. We had to go to the cancer center for injections for three weeks. We have been through a lot together. Most couples would have failed long ago. Things aren't always ideal, but there is something to say in making it work, even if there are hitches. I had always been proud of that.

But, no, we have no children.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I say, you give her an ultimatum. Let me have your phone so I can have transparency in the marriage, or take a hike. If she refuses, then she should take a hike.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Listen friend. Lots of red flags here. If you read enough stories here you will see you are on this trajectory.

Its EA for sure and I think there is a PA. Regardless, the EA is taking time away from the marriage and you. Its not aceptable, and its disrespectful.

Notice she only admits to what you can prove, and only then reluctantly. I read your story and my buzzer was going off the whole time. The challenge you have now is she knows you are on to her. She will either cool it until you let off, or find other ways to go underground.

Do you wwnt a life like this wherr you always have to validate what your wife is doing, where she is, and if she is being honest? You deservr better. Think wbout it. Is this the behaviour of someone who loves and respects you? 

The Papi thing ....Christ man! This is right out of porn. Ugh.

This is all made more complicated because the baby is coming. I worry for you as you are being passive here (not uncommon) but you are at risk. I encourage you to read here and get a sence of how this typically goes down.

Keep posting.


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

If you are worried about what is going on in the house while you are at work, and want to gather evidence, get a couple VAR's (Voice Activated Recorders) and hide one in her favorite place to chat in the house and one in her car, fastened under the drivers seat with Velcro. Just make sure to cover any light on it and disable any beeps it may make. If something is going on you will know soon enough that way.

It is a obvious your wife is in an emotional affair, the recorders could prove or disprove if it has went farther. Hopefully it hasn't, but being missing for 40 minutes when she was in school, 4am shopping trips, even if these trips don't happen very often, that doesn't sound normal. If she has hidden the phone again and still has password protection from you, then there is probably more she is hiding I fear.


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## chatabox (May 4, 2016)

You need to record her conversations when she's alone and in the car. You might catch her talking to him, or even just to a friend about how much of a mess it is. Most women have at least one friend who knows the majority of their secrets. So there has to be someone that she's getting advice from about it all.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

It is funny on how we are all individuals but it is the same story over and over again.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Follow the instructions here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html. Then you will know exactly what you are dealing with.

That is, if you even care to know the details at this point; if it were me, I would know all I needed to know just from your posts so far.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@rundownandtired you sound like a lovely guy. Your wife doesn't seem to care for you, I don't understand & never will understand getting naked & performing sex acts over the Internet. She could be on porn sites for all she knows! "Papi" is a modern pimp for sure. Selling videos of bored housewives to porn sites. Tell your wife this, and maybe she'll think twice before getting naked in front of a webcam again! She's no respect for herself or you. 
I'm sorry for being harsh but it's the truth & you deserve better than this. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

rundownandtired said:


> I don't know if she loves me. As I said prior, she seems to. *She plays the roll. I just feel like it might be an act. She is kind of good at this stuff. I feel like may be capable of fooling anyone.* She decides what she wants people to see and sticks to it. It scares me some, if my feeling is completely right about her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

*You need to record her conversations when she's alone and in the car. You might catch her talking to him, or even just to a friend about how much of a mess it is. Most women have at least one friend who knows the majority of their secrets. So there has to be someone that she's getting advice from about it all.*

You need a VAR in her car. Aside from that she is cheating wither emotionally or physically. And you seem to be willing to let her.

Your next stop needs to be an attorney , and then when this child is born a DNA test. 

You have so many red flags here you could start a bull fighting school

Either just accept you are in some sort of open marriage that will get worse or lay down the law, have her take a polygraph and then make your decision based on the truth.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@rundownandtired

I have NEVER met a woman who referred to a man as "Papi" that she wasn't actively fvcking.

Unless, it was her dad.... You can bet he's railing her good to earn that nickname. Just an FYI OP.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

rundownandtired said:


> I My happiness, and I know most people can't understand this, comes second to my integrity. *If I were to not support her or have her fail because I stepped out of her life, I would not be able to recover from that.* I would need to reach a point where I felt my obligation had ended for valid reasons, such as she went outside the marriage physically.


While I admire your commitment to your integrity here, you have to keep in mind that she is a GROWN ADULT woman and SHE is the one responsible for her own life! If she falls on her face, that is on her, not you. 

I am disturbed by the fact that you are so focused on physical infidelity...your wife is blatantly cheating on you. Even if she hasn't come into contact with someone else, she is sharing herself in a way that is supposed to be for and with her husband only. She is disrespecting you and the marriage, and often the emotional affairs have more of an impact on the cheater's life than a brief physical affair. I think you need to stop minimalizing what it is that she is doing, because she is cheating right in front of you.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Man she is bad news. You need to drop her. She has no respect for you, is addicted to her phone, and is a liar. Leave her or you will regret it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lofeshort (May 9, 2016)

Please tell me you are getting a paternity test!?! I know you love her and sincerity is great. But she's cheAting on you bro. You only call a man Papi when he is ****ing you or your pimp. 

Simply put, you guys have probably just outgrown each other. You guys are different. 

Man what if she was video taping you two having sex just to show her Papi how much better he is? Dude, she is going to make you miserable. She a liar. You caught her. I would never put up with that. You seem smart. Don't deal with this nonsense. She has absolutely no respect for you if she is going to lie to your face like this! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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