# What to do ?



## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

We have been married 4 years this April. Been together 5 years. Our marriage has had its ups and downs like many have. I was sinful to my wife with another 2 years ago. She forgave me but told me if it ever happened again we were done. I vowed to her I would never do it again. We never sought counseling after that to discuss what had happen and to get a 3rd professional opinion. The situation faded away and we continued on with our lives. 2 years later I was too playful with her best friend who was always over even when my wife was not. We would bull **** and perv around but were not romantically involved. I made the mistake of playing too much and did something I should have not. I stopped myself and felt very scared and shameful as to what I did. It was hard for me to confess due to what happened the first time. I was and still am very scared to lose my wife and family. What I did was very wrong and was not meant to happen. My wife feels she can no longer trust me and has asked me to move out for awhile but when I asked if this was permanent she keeps saying she doesn't know. In the mean time the best friend is going to be staying in my house to help watch the kids while I am gone. Divorce has never come up and she is willing to go to marriage counseling as I am going to set myself up for counseling myself to deal with my own problems. I can't stand the feeling of being away from my kids and wife. For the time being I will do as she has asked and move out. I am very scared and for my wife not to tell me how she is really feeling is hard to figure out. I love my wife and I want to show her that I am committed to this marriage 110%. I just dont know what else to do...


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Until you are divorced, it is never too late to fix things. It will take a LOT of work on your part, though. For one thing - ANY messing around with a person who is not your wife is (a) asking for trouble, and (b) not acceptable behavior for a married man.

You say that what happened was 'not meant to happen' - but when you play with matches and gasoline, a fire is bound to happen. Your choice to involve yourself in activity that is dangerous to your marriage made anything that DID happen almost inevitable. 

Your marriage is a commitment - a vow you make to another person that tells them you are theirs and theirs alone for life. You are only as good as your word - if your vow means nothing, then there is not much else about you that anyone can trust. 

Well - they CAN trust you to break your word - but is that the kind of person you want to be known as?

_How_ committed are you to your marriage? What are you willing to do?

Check these links out, read over them, ask lots of questions, and be prepared to examine your life carefully to find out what you can do to be more reliable, more loving and overall - a better husband.

Affaircare Basic Concepts

Marriage Builders Basic Concepts


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is all kinda weird. The wifes "best friend" clearly wants you for herself, and you're kicked out of the house, and the "best friend" moves in?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Atholk said:


> This is all kinda weird. The wifes "best friend" clearly wants you for herself, and you're kicked out of the house, and the "best friend" moves in?


I wondered who would catch that lol


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Tanelornpete said:


> I wondered who would catch that lol


Oh I will always catch that lol. 50% of a successful pick up is reading a woman's IOIs (Indicators of Interest) and just physically escalating the physical touch at that point, and...

... doh wrong place for this :rofl:


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Atholk said:


> Oh I will always catch that lol. 50% of a successful pick up is reading a woman's IOIs (Indicators of Interest) and just physically escalating the physical touch at that point, and...
> 
> ... doh wrong place for this :rofl:



Mocking me still does not answer my question as what to do... I am seeking help nothing more.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't have any wonderful advice for you. She now considers you a serial cheater, and probably has absolutely no faith in you whatsoever. This is what I would see as trying on your part:

Get yourself into counseling to get at WHY you are doing it at all

Clean yourself up, write her a letter letting her know how you feel about her

Open up any and all emails/cell records/etc to her so she can monitor for herself

Never be alone in your own house with another woman. That is a rule my H and I have. We are never alone in a house with the opposite sex. Sounds extreme, but I see it as respectful to each other.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

luvmyh said:


> i think dawnd's right on. I also think the "best friend" has to be out of the house if you and your wife are going to try to fix things. How old are the parties involved?


h 29 w21 ow 23


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

LuvMyH said:


> I had a feeling your wife was pretty young, since she moved the friend in. It seems to me that when you take on a wife who's 17, you should be protecting her from harm, not causing it. You have children,too. What were you thinking?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thinking? That is a question I ask myself many times over. To dwell in the past will bring no resolve to this problem. I have already taken the steps to fix myself before I can fix my marriage. I am beyond frightened to lose my wife and my sanity. As was said before playing with matches and gasoline is just looking for trouble. Mind you the act was not out of love or lust . I just did a stupid thing and now I am paying for it. I love my wife and my children. My wife had asked me to leave and I am doing so willingly. To show and give her the time and space for us to think about what can be done. I have created my own hell and when I look in the mirror I just feel like cutting my own heart out. Whats done is done and now I ask again as to what I must do. I am well prepared to do what is necessary to right my wrongs. Just need some guidance.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You need to move that woman out of your life if you are serious about an attempt to prove your trustworthiness to your wife.

Also, do not trivialize the flirtation you were conducting as hardly anything that then went further. Your intent was always there.

You ARE now a serial cheater in that you have behaved inappropriately with two different women.

Seek counseling. You need it.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Saddaddy- did you look over those links I posted for you?

The reason we brought up the fact that your wife moved the friend into the house is not to mock you - it is because there are some issues there that you will eventually have to address before you can actually save your marriage.

It's nothing to dwell on now, but there are questions: for example, about why your wife would choose someone who would sleep with her husband as a friend - over her husband? (Etc...)

In any event, until you can show your wife that you have actually changed into someone she can trust, you won't be in a position to find out why. If I could offer any advice at all - it would be to avoid challenges to your wife's decisions. Allow her to be angry at you - and use the times you do converse as a means to find out ways that you have hurt her.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Never be alone in your own house with another woman. That is a rule my H and I have. We are never alone in a house with the opposite sex. Sounds extreme, but I see it as respectful to each other.


I don't think that's extreme at all. That's a rule my wife and I live by - and we have a lot more - for example, we keep no secret passwords, both of our email accounts are wide open for each other at all times, we talk over any situation where we might be talking to a member of the other sex, and keep each other appraised of what the conversation involved - including text records, email, etc. 

In a marriage, there is no reason to keep things private from one another. _Secrets_ can sometimes happen - surprise party, gifts, etc - but even then we often tell each other 'I'm working on something for you that I don't want you to know about yet..." - and then show results... But we do not hide our activities. Much safer that way.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> I don't think that's extreme at all. That's a rule my wife and I live by - and we have a lot more - for example, we keep no secret passwords, both of our email accounts are wide open for each other at all times, we talk over any situation where we might be talking to a member of the other sex, and keep each other appraised of what the conversation involved - including text records, email, etc.
> 
> In a marriage, there is no reason to keep things private from one another. _Secrets_ can sometimes happen - surprise party, gifts, etc - but even then we often tell each other 'I'm working on something for you that I don't want you to know about yet..." - and then show results... But we do not hide our activities. Much safer that way.


I will take what has been givin to me and put to good use thank you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're a serial cheater, whether you want to see it that way, or not. Once is a mistake; twice is a lack of self control - an issue.

Once you cheat on your spouse, they have absolutely no obligation to keep you. Sorry, but that's the truth.

IIWY, I would show her - over a period of a year or two - that I CAN control myself, and I WILL work on myself, take courses to learn about what I did, educate myself on the issue, etc. I'd continue to support the family without complaint - from another location. I'd prove myself.

If you can't see doing that for a good solid year, then you don't really love her, you just want her.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I did forget to mention, that if you decide to talk about what happened and why, you have to REALLY LISTEN to how she is feeling and not make it seem like her opinion is small and unimportant. She might ask the same question 10 times. So answer it. Dwelling won't help, but she will need to ask things to cope. My H has had to tell me several times the same answer because I have to sort it all out in my head. Tread carefully and good luck.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Saddaddy said:


> Mocking me still does not answer my question as what to do... I am seeking help nothing more.


Sorry not meaning to mock you. Was playing with the other board members.

But seriously... the OW appears to be a master manipulator if she messes around with you, and you get kicked out, and she moves in! I've been on this board a while and it is the single strangest thing I've heard.

Seriously, that woman needs to be moved out of your lives. No progress until that happens.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Atholk said:


> Sorry not meaning to mock you. Was playing with the other board members.
> 
> But seriously... the OW appears to be a master manipulator if she messes around with you, and you get kicked out, and she moves in! I've been on this board a while and it is the single strangest thing I've heard.
> 
> Seriously, that woman needs to be moved out of your lives. No progress until that happens.


I went to the apt to look at it today. Went and bought my wife some flowers and went home. I asked her outside to talk to her about the apt and told her that it was in a nice area with plenty of kids for our children to play with when the snow melts. I also tried to let her know that I will not be talking to her " Best friend " anymore. I also asked about not having her around anymore for us to work on us. She accused me of trying to break up their friendship which was not what I was trying to imply at all. She was pissed when she thought that was what I was implying. I told her that was not the case at all and that I am not trying to tell her who her friends can be. She told me that it was going to take a hell of a lot of work for her to trust me again. I agreed. Not easy to talk to her when she angry with me. Trying to be honest with her seemed to make her more angry. I am very much not trying to upset her more. I am awaiting the landlord to give me word if the apt is good to go for me to move in. Trying to take baby steps and not step on her toes is very tough.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Saddaddy~

Please bear in mind that she has some reasonable reason to be angry. You behaved in a way that would make a reasonable person angry. The biggest mistake you could make right now would be to take the "easy way out" and "not make her angry" by doing little white lies or withholding the truth. I guarantee you that if you take "the easy way" and she finds out something you didn't admit, it's over. Period.

However! If you man up and get through this hard part and sort of take the anger that's reasonable for the behavior...if you stay honest with her even when it's not easy...then THAT is the kind of behavior that shows her you can be honest and be trusted. This is partly the natural consequence of your choices, so take it on the chin and be open and honest in the most loving way you can be.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another thing to consider is that - at least in my opinion - 21 is far too young to be married. She's still practically a teenager, and not done forming herself. I mean college students often don't even know what they want to do when they 'grow up' even as they're graduating. I got married at 21, and I had no idea who I was at that age. I went through a dozen thoughts of what I would have done, or gone to, if I hadn't been married. 

You may be better off just dating from separate houses, and see if you both stay on the same path. Chances are, you won't.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

turnera said:


> Another thing to consider is that - at least in my opinion - 21 is far too young to be married. She's still practically a teenager, and not done forming herself. I mean college students often don't even know what they want to do when they 'grow up' even as they're graduating. I got married at 21, and I had no idea who I was at that age. I went through a dozen thoughts of what I would have done, or gone to, if I hadn't been married.
> 
> You may be better off just dating from separate houses, and see if you both stay on the same path. Chances are, you won't.


Wow...just wow...my wife had chosen to be with me and the outlook your giving me is to just give up. Do not insult my wifes intelligence. Don't ever judge a person you have never met. I do not intend to date anyone nor does she. That we have been honest to each other about. She is not one to hold off keeping something that important from me. If it was over she would have said so then that would be that. I love my wife and I will fight to keep her.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> Another thing to consider is that - at least in my opinion - 21 is far too young to be married. She's still practically a teenager, and not done forming herself.


 I'm sorry to say that I agree with Saddaddy on this one. Even being an older person, I know that at 21 a person may not know who they are going to become, nor will they know some things that you learn as you age--but I think marriage is a crucible in which you grown and form yourself. I guess I just don't necessarily believe a person has to be "formed" before they get married. I think once a person is old enough to understand that commitment means honoring the vow even when it's difficult to do so--they are old enough to marry. 



> I mean college students often don't even know what they want to do when they 'grow up' even as they're graduating. I got married at 21, and I had no idea who I was at that age. I went through a dozen thoughts of what I would have done, or gone to, if I hadn't been married.


Ah but those are "what if's" and not applicable to your life not necessarily these young folks. I mean, what would my life have been if I were taller?  My point is that as people go through life, some life lessons are learned and some folks grow and mature. I think if the commitment is there to learn life lessons and mature together--there's the key: TOGETHER--then they will be learning things through their whole life! 

Anyway Saddaddy, I'm mildly confused about the best friend thing too. You were being perv with the friend, messing around (not making out but being goofs) and went too far. Now your wife is mad at you and kicked you out but the best friend is living with you? And she's not mad at the best friend but sort of defends her?  :scratchhead: Ummm...huh?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Saddaddy said:


> Wow...just wow...my wife had chosen to be with me and the outlook your giving me is to just give up. Do not insult my wifes intelligence. Don't ever judge a person you have never met. I do not intend to date anyone nor does she. That we have been honest to each other about. She is not one to hold off keeping something that important from me. If it was over she would have said so then that would be that. I love my wife and I will fight to keep her.


 No, I meant to date HER. Give yourselves more time to get to know each other. Many people date for a long time before getting married. You could date a while before getting 're-married.'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Affaircare, you're right, of course. Many people marry young and are completely happy. But she obviously has other interests, or at least questions, right now. And I think that the best friend thing is a good indicator that she is pretty confused right now. I think getting married so young and having kids so soon AND having a husband cheat on her twice is a lot for a 21 year old to handle. I'd rather see her and him take things more slowly this time around to make sure they've got the marriage they both want.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Just to update you folks I am currently in my box of an apartment. I am currently in couseling and trying to stay busy while we work this out. Now a new problem has come along though. My mother has been sending my wife nasty little notes on facebook. As far as i know she has been blocked by my wife so that should clear that problem up. My mother had taken the liberty and told my side of the family about the situation when I did not want anyone outside to know. Now everyone is angry with me. I am not sure how to deal with this because I dont want anthing to mess with my wife and I as we try to work this through.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Saddaddy said:


> Just to update you folks I am currently in my box of an apartment. I am currently in couseling and trying to stay busy while we work this out. Now a new problem has come along though. My mother has been sending my wife nasty little notes on facebook. As far as i know she has been blocked by my wife so that should clear that problem up. My mother had taken the liberty and told my side of the family about the situation when I did not want anyone outside to know. Now everyone is angry with me. I am not sure how to deal with this because I dont want anthing to mess with my wife and I as we try to work this through.


I'm glad your wife blocked your mom's messages. In any event, you'll have to simply own up to your mistakes and let your family be mad - wouldn't you be mad at others if they did what you did? 

I'm curious - what did your mom tell your side of the family - and why should she send nasty notes to your wife? I could understand her sending them to you - some people are just a little immature, and venting stuff like that can help them cope with uncomfortable things - but why your wife?

Also - regarding the fact that you did not want anyone outside to know what you did....I'll just be blunt here: when you are unfaithful to your spouse, you have to deal with the consequences. There is nothing wrong with others knowing what you did. It may even help you stay on the straight and narrow in the future. Trying to keep others thinking things about you that are not true is...basically...living a lie. It's lying to people around you. Is that the kind of person you want to be?


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

My mother is a very bitter and selfish woman. She has always been that way. She and my wife have never gotten along and I am at a cross roads. Talking to my mother is like talking through water. she only cares about what she wants other than understanding what I am doing for myself and my family. I have talked to my counsiler about her. Much of my problems have been from my mother. She has even sent me nasty notes on facebook as well. She has been blocked. She has never supported anything I have ever done in my life. Not to get too personal about her but she is not the type of person I want around our kids. My wife understands that she is no help to our problem. For the time being I am working and making sure to stay in contact with her and our kids while I am gone from home. I have been attending my therapy for 3 weeks now at least once a week. I have also started reading and getting back to my art. I am not sure as how to act around her when I see her for the first time in a few days to visit the kids. I'm very nervous and excited to see her and the kids. I hate the feeling of being alone at the moment. It hurts my heart very much to be away from them. If you folks have any advice as to what to say I would be very greatful. ty


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Ok, so right now, the best thing to do is to avoid getting your mom involved in this situation at all. That's one stress yuo can do without.

Moving on, expect people to be angry at your behavior. It's part of the whole package - do something wrong, and people react. They will get over it. So will you.

Right now, the most important thing you can be doing is working on yourself. That means a lot of things, but mainly, take a good look at what you want out of life, and what it will take to get there. 

Try this for starters. Its a lot of fun and tells you a lot about yourself.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

I have made a list as to what I need to work on. Most of whats on the list is what my wife wants me to work on. The hardest part of all this for me is dealing being away from home. I know what I want and as I once said in my facebook post : "If I can become a Marine for life in 3 months just think what I can do in 6 months. " I think it's just the steps to take is what has my mind in a knot.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

So it would seem I am at a troubled spot in this journey. My wife wants to go to counseling with me but not for the right reasons or are they. She feels that her personal boundries are not being respected. She feels it would be best and discuss it to my counseller. I didnt quite know what to make of it. She asked me not to talk about us and I do not. No romantic stuff of any kind. That is the only thing that I lack of control in. Small gestures of kindness such as flowers or cleaning up the house when I visit. Nothing that would be too drastic. If I sit by and try not to do anything to show her respect and that I love her I feel she may take that gesture if I do nothing as a sign I care not for her. It has been tough not to act the fool when I go and visit the kids while she is there. I have been good as to on my list of things to work on. I am being as to instead of doing as my counseller would say. I have been going to ocuseling at least once a week. Im working on it ^^


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

By all means let the counselor guide you both on this. You need more conversation; the counselor can help with that.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

I have really done it this time. The urge to know the truth and I could not control myself enough as to not read her journal. I was upset as to what I saw when it was just a thought in her head and I didnt trust in her judgement. I told her bestfriend about it with confidence that she wouldnt repeat it back. I was wrong. I was wrong in what I did. And now She said it was over. We had a fight on the phone about it. My couseller was right about the best friend in that she had an agenda. I was tested by my wife and failed. I will have to accept my fate in knowing that if I did not do what I did things would have been better from what she said. She says she will never trust me again. I admit I have problems that run deep in which is the cause of my mistakes. It is too late and all is lost. I have no control. No integrity. I am the worst kind of person and I do not look to be felt sorry for. I have lost my family and my selfrespect. I only wish for people to understand and not judge. What to do ?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have really do it this time. The urge to know the truth and I could not control myself enough as to not read her journal. I was upset as to what I saw when it was just a thought in her head and I didnt trust in her judgement. I told her bestfriend about it with confidence that she wouldnt repeat it back. I was wrong. I was wrong in what I did. And now She said it was over. We had a fight on the phone about it. My couseller was right about the best friend in that she had an agenda. I was tested by my wife and failed. I will have to accept my fate in knowing that if I did not do what I did things would have been better from what she said. She says she will never trust me again. I admit I have problems that run deep in which is the cause of my mistakes. It is too late and all is lost. My name is xxxxxxxx and I lost my love because I am a lier and a cheater. I have no control. No integrity. I am the worst kind of person and I do not look to be felt sorry for. I have lost my family and my selfrespect. I only wish for people to understand and not judge. What to do ?


First thing to do - _*stop feeling sorry for yourself.*_ All that does is waste time. What exactly is the payoff you get from this behavior? Is it worth the pain and sadness?

Second: stop what you are doing! We've given you a lot of good advice on this board - start actually doing the work that we have suggested - what is the worst that could happen? So far you've tried to do everything the way you want to do it - and it's not really working out for you.

Therefore:

Try doing what other people suggest. 

Your wife says she will never trust you again. That's a possibility, not a certainty. Right now she certainly does not. Things can always change. Most of that depends on you and what you are willing to do to make yourself into a more reliable person.

Think about this: what is more important in life than being someone that is trustworthy? And is not a person who is trustworthy someone who ALWAYS does what he says he will do, who always keeps his word? It seems to me that's the kind of person you would want to develop yourself into.

Yes, you may have destroyed your marriage with your behavior. But your life is not over. You can still breath, eat, walk, talk, smile, cry, wear clothes, watch TV, experience emotions, think. All of the things that all the rest of humanity does. That means that you are still alive, and able to change.

But you need to stop doing things the way you have been. Stop it now! Leave your wife alone and work on yourself.

*I gave you a starter exercise.* I had a specific purpose for it - perhaps now you can try to do it. My purpose is to give you a focus to concentrate on YOU in a new light. It's a way of thinking about you that overrides all the selfish behavior you've exhibited in the past, because it gives you a means learning and understanding more about yourself. Take the time to read over it - and do the questionnaire! It's fun and really informative.

Yes - you may not feel like it. You may want to do something else. But think about it! What happens when you do that? There's a reason why things go south for you - you are in a self-destructive habit. And it's a habit you need to break.

That's the reason for seeing a counselor. Not to get your wife to love you, not to make things accept the way you are. Counseling is designed to help you get PAST bad behaviors and move on to good ones. 

Work on YOURSELF!!!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I told her bestfriend about it with confidence that she wouldnt repeat it back. I was wrong. I was wrong in what I did


Is this not the best friend with which you had the affair? 

Didn't you want to _FIX_ the troubles in your marriage? 

The *very first step* you take in ending an affair is to cease ALL contact with the Other Person in the affair. In this instance: your wife's 'best' friend. _And yet you are still talking to her_ - and worse yet - _asking her to keep secrets from your wife?_ What, exactly, if anything, have you actually done to work on your marriage? It seems that all you've done is complain!

Regardless of how messed up the situation with your wife is (why she chose this 'best' friend over you) - you are clearly still having the affair. You did not stop! And how, exactly, did you expect to fix your marriage while still continuing the affair?

Stop at once and work on you. Wash, rinse and repeat.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

You are right in the wisdom you folks have provided me with. It has been 2 days since I posted it and she has asked me to go to church with her and the kids. I said yes. She lives by her christan values and she values marriage very much. Im not sure what or how to act in church for I havent been to a church in a long time. Mind my P's and Q's im sure. I am still focused on fixing me. What I did the other night was just an example to myself that a person cannot change over night only in time and with effort. I will update on the day and let you folks know how it went.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

I feel the one way to get a break through for myself is to bring back who I was when we first met. To find the person she fell in love with. Back to square one if I am even on that page. The one thing counseling has taught me thus far is to look for that person and stick with it. For the addiction of my bad habits my counselor is pointing me towards me to a person who can drastically change that. I am starting to feel the change in myself and I hope it will show in my wife as well.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I feel the one way to get a break through for myself is to bring back who I was when we first met. To find the person she fell in love with. Back to square one if I am even on that page. The one thing counseling has taught me thus far is to look for that person and stick with it. For the addiction of my bad habits my counselor is pointing me towards me to a person who can drastically change that. I am starting to feel the change in myself and I hope it will show in my wife as well.


This is so true - you do need to get back to the person she fell in love with...with some exceptions.

You also need to be that person - WITHOUT adding the things that started you down the path that ended you up here.

Get all the help you can from your counselor in changing all that. Your wife will notice - over time, as you actually begin to live that way. Please don't tell her you are changing. Just do it. Let her see it in your actions. That's what she is hoping for.

----------------
Now playing: Howard Shore - The Dreams of Trees
via FoxyTunes


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## Chiggity (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm very new at dealing with infidelity myself, but I can say one thing for sure, though it will simply be an echo of what you have already been told.

When I found out that my wife had cheated with a man who loved playing little mind games, to the point where he had himself living under our roof, the very first thing I did was make arrangements to remove that person from our lives.

Manipulators anticipate your moves, they dig in deep, and invest lots of time and emotional energy into their prey. They are not always as malicious as their actions would sometimes suggest, but the games they play can have devastating effects. Whatever her intentions are her actions are putting your family at risk. You and your wife need to understand this.

DO NOT place all of the blame on the "Best Friend" but do explain that if this woman is a true friend, she: 
A) Would not have proceeded down this hurtful path to begin with.
and MOST IMPORTANTLY:
B) Would respect the time and distance you two will need from her to heal.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks Chiggity - this brings up a question which I need to ask Saddaddy - 

Have you broken all contact with this "Best Friend"? I mean, seriously, refused to have ANY contact - to not be in the same house, to refuse to talk to on the phone, etc.? 

I cannot emphasize how important this is to your marriage recovering...


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Thanks Chiggity - this brings up a question which I need to ask Saddaddy -
> 
> Have you broken all contact with this "Best Friend"? I mean, seriously, refused to have ANY contact - to not be in the same house, to refuse to talk to on the phone, etc.?
> 
> I cannot emphasize how important this is to your marriage recovering...




I have been avoiding contact with her and if she speaks to me it is only brief and has not been about anything other than about how the kids have been. It is has been rather tough because she is living in my house. It has been brought to my attention that over time she may get tired of watching my kids for my wife if I am not able to be there Via work. I have been sticking to what my counselor has been telling my and besides this helpful forum I am taking my counseling a step further. I am going to see a therapist to further my self. The cool thing is my job is paying for 3 sessions. After that I am going to see a person that my counselor referred me to to help with the infidelity problem. Doing all this I still can't help to wonder when will be a good time to talk to my wife about reconciling. For now I have been making sure I see the kids and when ever she needs at the house to give her a break to go out and relax. Lovin' my wife and famiy ^^


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

All I have to say is we have to own our own sin. You sound a bit religous and perhaps could relate to this. It cant be minimized or trivialized... it is what it is and we have done what we have done. She did say that if it happened again, there would be a divorce. It is up to her alone if she can find it in her heart to forgive you... and trust you again. I dont think there is anything you can do other than what you are doing... except help with the kids... why would you move out and agree NOT to see the kids. She cannot do that. The friend being in her house is also not a good idea, but you cant control that... you have no say anymore in the relationship... but the kids...that is another issue. You may want to consult a lawyer on your rights to see the kids... and without that woman around... maybe a lawyer can get her out of the house since she was the other offending party involved. Cant understand why your wife is even friends with her, unless they plotted this to get you out? Dont know. Contact a lawyer.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok, done more reading here... still think you should consult a lawyer to see if:

1) get that "friend" out of the house... she is the other woman!!!

2) set up how you will see the kids, you are their dad

AND as others here are stating like I did as well... why is your wife still friends with the woman who was inappropriate with her husband? Im telling you, this reeks of plotting..... I hope she did not just plan this to get you out and move her buddy in.

Yes, try to date your wife from the other residence, in time. But first you have to legally take care of those other 2 things... I dont care how mad your wife gets at eliminating that woman from her/your life... but she has to go.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have been avoiding contact with her and if she speaks to me it is only brief and has not been about anything other than about how the kids have been. It is has been rather tough because she is living in my house. It has been brought to my attention that over time she may get tired of watching my kids for my wife if I am not able to be there Via work. I have been sticking to what my counselor has been telling my and besides this helpful forum I am taking my counseling a step further. I am going to see a therapist to further my self. The cool thing is my job is paying for 3 sessions. After that I am going to see a person that my counselor referred me to to help with the infidelity problem. Doing all this I still can't help to wonder when will be a good time to talk to my wife about reconciling. For now I have been making sure I see the kids and when ever she needs at the house to give her a break to go out and relax. Lovin' my wife and famiy ^^


Saddaddy - this is going to go _nowhere_ as long as you have any contact with this other woman. *You need to not talk to her at all - even 'just regarding the kids.'*

You are the kid's father. That means that you should be available ANY time that you are not working. If it has to be only when your wife need's 'me time' - so be it. Offer to watch the kids then. She cannot legally withhold them from you. Offer to watch them any time. Demand that she allow you to see them - and then simply be with them when they are there. 

You mention that this other woman may get tired of watching the kids. Good! Let it happen. Let your wife use her up. Let things fail between them. _Stay out of the picture whenever and wherever this other woman is in the picture - to the extent of staying out in the car when she is in the house._ ANYTHING to emphasize to your wife that she is no longer a concern of yours. And let your wife know that you are always going to be there for the kids, and that you will always love her. And leave it at that.

As your wife sees your life changing, as you slowly kindle the flames of love, she will become less and less interested in this other woman - especially if she understands that this other woman cannot be in the picture in order for the marriage to work. 

But you MUST stop ALL contact with her. Your wife is playing a game with you right now - and you need to get out of the game and just be a real father and husband. 

As for your 'infidelity problem' - that is very simple. First, don't have affairs. Commit yourself to the woman you promised to whom you promised fidelity. And second, learn what needs you and your wife have that make you both feel the most loved. Practice those. Learn the things you both to that destroy love - and stop doing those. As you practice these things, you'll become more and more faithful. That's what you need to do to handle the 'infidelity problem' - apply yourself to being committed. 

As for talking to your wife about reconciling: simply tell her you love her and want to work out things...and then proceed to simply do those things. You will know when the time is right - your wife will get rid of that 'best' friend, and you will both be falling in love with one another. Do not hurry it. Work on being a good man instead.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

All the other advice here needs to be heeded!! Please do as they say. Also I stick by my guns about 

1) get a lawyer to remove this other woman from your lives, she should not be living in your marital home and any lawyer will tell you that since she is the "other woman" in the marital affair. You will actually look good in that you are legally attempting to cleanse her from your life. You obviously cannot see your kids without her being around since she is in that house... GET HER OUT!!!!!

2) then you can set up a way for you to see your kids without the threat of seeing her, and THAT will help you and your wife. 

I dont care if your wife pouts about removing this friend from the marital home... thats why I say make it legal because your wife will stomp her feet for some unknown reason if you simply ask her to. Explain to the lawyer that you are trying to make ammends with your wife and cannot because the other woman is now, post indiscretion (wasnt really an affair), moved into your maritla home. Its just perposturous!! I cannot believe I am even reading that she chose her innapropriate friend over you, in whom she has more faith. After these, and the other advice is heeded, you can work towards making amends, and deciding if this is the kind of situation that is right for you, or how to make it work.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Just a question on the idea of getting a lawyer to 'remove' this woman from the home:

On what grounds can a legal case be made? (Just curious)


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

:iagree: This is the wife's best friend, the wife knows that Saddaddy and BFF had an affair, and she kicked Saddaddy out and moved BFF in. So the OW is in the home at the invite of the one who was cheated on! 

I don't see any law being broken and I highly doubt if legal maneuvering to force out the wife's friends will make any love kindlers. So I'm :scratchhead:


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## flyersfan (Mar 31, 2010)

My wife has recently found out I've been unfaithful to her during our marriage. I have held back on telling her everything. She now has scheduled a lie detector test for me so she can get her answers. I believe this could ruin our marriage and I really do not want that to happen. What advice can anyone give to me, I don't want to go through with the lie detector test, how do I get out of it without looking guilty.


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

Sit her down and tell her this is going to be very hard. Tell her 100% of the truth. You are going to have to eventually anyhow if you want to reconcile your marriage.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Flyersfan~

This thread is for Saddaddy so I would suggest that you go ahead and start your own thread okay? To do that, please click on "Coping with Infidelity" and there is a button in the top left corner that says [New Thread]. Thanks!

We would be more than happy to help you on your own thread okay?

EDIT TO ADD: Here's flyersfan's thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/12523-threatened-lie-detector-test.html


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Id rather not involve this into legal matters. We are trying to work on this in our own way. I work on me and show her my support and love without pushing her away. Rebuild that lost trust. Show her in my own way small gifts of love when I can. See the kids and help her out as much as possible. Little by little and day by day I work myself back to my wife. I have my battle plan and I am being in what I do. I am taking from what I learn from counseling and putting it to good use everyday. Im not giving up on the ones I love. I told my wife no matter how long it takes I wont give up on myself or us.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Helping her in any way is good...to a point. If you start going overboard doing things for her to make her life easier, when you didn't before, it makes you look desperate and weak. Which will make her not like you. 

Help her - but be reasonable and equitable about what you help with.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Sonia5 said:


> My advice is simple make trust on each-other, so your life going on smooth and more then Happy
> 
> 
> ------
> Female Libido Enhancer



I have been. I have taken any opportunity to show her that trust can be rebuilt. One day at a time. As to any time she needs me I am there to if she needs help with some bills because its still my house too I feel even though im not there It would show my commitment to the family. I just want her to see that I am devoted to her even in the smallest way. My counselor has been pleased with my progress and I am as well. It is still a bit tough to tell if my wife has taken notice still.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just remember that women are much slower to rebuild trust. I liken them to cats, and men to dogs. Cats are always on the watch, making sure there's no danger, so they can protect themselves. Dogs just find the danger and tackle it head on. Don't waste time worrying about it. Just be patient and look at this is a building period in your marriage. Make good use of it. It's springtime! Time for new habits, new opportunities, trying new things. I have a list I give out to people who are in ruts and need to shake up their marriage, but it will work for you, too. Let me find it:

Read a book together
Take turns picking out a movie to watch
Bring out the board games, at least once a week
Start a solitaire club with some neighbors or friends, play solitaire against each other one night a week or month
Start gardening together
Grow herbs/vegetables/fruits
Take walks
Start a sport together; take classes at a community college, such as racquetball or volleyball
Get bikes and start riding bikes together
Sign up for an MS 150 and train for the bike ride all year
Plan some day trips, start taking one every month
Try out one new restaurant every week, take turns choosing and surprising the other with it
Go to bookstore and get a book like “52 great invitations to sex” in which you both have 26 invitations for a special evening to invite the other one, and you set it up, give the other the invitation (included in book) and then put on the evening
Join an online gaming community together (but don’t get addicted!)
Buy a Wii or Guitar Hero and play together
Give each other foot rubs
Take massage class together and practice giving each other massages
Go back to school together
Get a pet, take it to obedience school and learn to train it (if applicable)
Join a neighborhood dinner club or other club
Volunteer together
Join a church or get more involved in your church
Take a cooking class together and take turns cooking for each other
Go to HGTV.com and pick out a project to do for your house together
Take free classes at Home Depot on how to fix something at your house
Start a business together
Organize a block party
Organize a family reunion
Start working with a financial planner or learn about stocks together
Take dancing lessons together; if you like it, start entering in competitions
Go online for your city and look up 'activities' and 'family' and maybe even 'free' if your city is big enough; subscribe to those websites and go there every month to look for upcoming activities you can all do together; you can find plays, music events, art things, sports things, picnics, etc.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

turnera said:


> Just remember that women are much slower to rebuild trust. I liken them to cats, and men to dogs. Cats are always on the watch, making sure there's no danger, so they can protect themselves. Dogs just find the danger and tackle it head on. Don't waste time worrying about it. Just be patient and look at this is a building period in your marriage. Make good use of it. It's springtime! Time for new habits, new opportunities, trying new things. I have a list I give out to people who are in ruts and need to shake up their marriage, but it will work for you, too. Let me find it:
> 
> Read a book together
> Take turns picking out a movie to watch
> ...


Id really love to do all that but I don't think she is ready for it yet. Which comes to a question. When or how long should I wait to ask her out on a date ? I Have been missing her alot and the little things like talking to her on the phone or just seeing her briefly have been the only things to calm my nerves. I mean I have been busting my hump working on me but id really like to show her beyond helping her out that I am progressing. Is it that common to miss someone that much? Maybe talk to my counselor about it ?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

You could talk to a counselor, but I think it is absolutely normal. And why not just buy her lunch somewhere? My advice, though - do it just for fun, not to 'show her how much you are progressing'. Let her see that for herself - no hints or promises, not even any talk of a relationship! Just lunch. And when you leave her - tell her you love her and that you consider her your best friend - and say nothing else. Let that sit in her mind as she considers the day...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I didn't mean to do it all! Just be creative and make being with you something she looks forward to. Those were just ideas to get you started.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

My wife is going with me to counseling tuesday to talk about her boundries. I'm not sure what the pros and cons of that would be. As for counseling I have been going once a week since february. We have been talking alot. She would like to also refer me to a counselor that would help me with my addiction problem. So far I have been feeling really good about going every week. Still much to work on I feel though. One thing I am looking forward to is sunday we are having a family day. Church then the Strong museum of play with the kids.


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## created4success (Apr 9, 2010)

DawnD said:


> This is what I would see as trying on your part:
> 
> Get yourself into counseling to get at WHY you are doing it at all
> 
> ...


Great advice, Dawn. I concur.

Also, something I've found that works very well besides coming clean, writing the letter and being more vulnerable is to go beyond saying you're sorry. Confess to her, specifically, how you hurt her and what you see that you did wrong. Then, and this is gonna be tough, ASK FOR HER FORGIVENESS. 

Before everyone gets up in arms about this being too religious or something, there's a powerful principle here. When you ask for forgiveness and mean it, you're communicating that you're not only sorry (for getting caught) but for how your actions impacted her, but that you're also truly willing to change. (Of course the fruit comes later...)

Whether she forgives you or not is immaterial, because what happens is that you are able to break free from your past and start new behaviors, and start attracting the things you want.

Try it and see if it works for you!


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Tomorrow we are both going to see my counselor. She wants to talk about her boundaries. Im a bit nervous. What does this show when your wife wants to do that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would think it's hopeful. Better than talking about her divorce demands.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

turnera said:


> I would think it's hopeful. Better than talking about her divorce demands.


It didnt go well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

?


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

The day started out well before I met up with her at counseling. When I arrived I had a positive additude for the day. I was sitting in the waiting room when she arrived and she was very quiet and distant. I tried to have small talk with her and ask her about setting a day up with the kids for all of us to go out. She was sitting there looking like she wanted to explode. She didnt want to talk so I left it at that till we were called. When we got in there I was not expecting for what was about to happen. She exploded. She talked about how I dont respect her and mentioned things of the past. She stated that she will never beable to forget the people that were involved in our problem. For one : the OW was 2 yrs ago and we have never spoken about her since and second : The OW is living in our house. It was her choice that I know to move her in, but how is that justified ? I have done everything my counselor has requested of me and it all was blown into my face. She said she has seen no changes in me when everyone else has stated they have. I have seen it in myself. I gave myself to GOD to display for myself change to better my life for me. She took the keys to our house. She stated that she will never be able to forgive me. That hurt more than anything. Coming from a christian that says there is no forgiveness for me hurts saying it to a born again christian. She stated her boundaries to the counselor and we both understood what she wanted. What she asked for made me feel like I am a prisoner in my own life. She took a copy of what was said for her own record. Out of all that was said she never said one positive thing that I have done for her or our children since I have been going to counseling and have been gone. She says " I irratate her when I talk or if I am around now ". I dont live in the house anymore. When I go to see the kids she leaves or she is not there when I go. When I call or text it is to see the kids. She said that I think of her as a joke that I dont take her seriously. I have done EVERYTHING that I was asked to do. I have put so much effort into myself to be a better person. To be a better role model for our kids. She is so scared to think if I came home things would go back to the way they were. That is not the case. Why would someone go through so much to go back to who they were ? She left me felling empty and hollow when she was done speaking her mind. When I was asked before she left if I had anything to say I was speachless and crying. SHe thinks I am doing all this for her. I made a promise tomyself that I would continue to work on myself even if things turned grim. The only thing time and space has done for her is build up that resentment. For me it has been time for me to fix flaws in my character. All I feel I can do is pray harder. Other than what was done I really dont know what else I can do to show her the light than just to leave her alone. She still knows I love her and what I still want. My counselor said she is testing me. Wish I knew what kind of grade system my wife was using. From friend to lover from lover to wife from wife to friend from friend to stranger. I have never felt so crushed. But I wont give up in what I feel strongly for. If you were in my shoes and your family was at stake I'm sure you would do the same.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wait, the OW is living with you? WHY?!!!!

Or did she move in after you moved out?

So sorry. She has the right to feel this way, though, after what you've done. You've proven you are undependable, that you have no self-control, or at least not enough.

So...this is what you're stuck with.

Will she ever forgive you? Maybe. I probably wouldn't. If you did it once, maybe. But not twice.

So what do you do? 

You consider this a BIG learning lesson, and you use it to help yourself become a better person, for the rest of your life and any possible future wives.

Will you ever be back with her? Maybe. Who knows? YOU can't control her, you can only try to be the guy she would choose. Basically, if you and she were new together, and she knew you had a habit of cheating, would she take a chance on dating you? What else do you have to offer that could make up for it. Make up for it for HER? This isn't about you any more. This is about what would make HER life better if you were in it?


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

turnera said:


> Wait, the OW is living with you? WHY?!!!!
> 
> Or did she move in after you moved out?
> 
> ...


The OW moved in the day I left. My lesson has been learned. But the result of leaning that lesson has left me deeply scared as much as a I have scared her. Though in comparrison hers will always be deeper. What I am concerned about is that everything was taken away from me and I'm unsure about going to see the kids where I dont feel welcome. I miss my kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make a better place for them to come see YOU.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

I just wanted to thank you folks for being an awesome source of help. Though things have started to turn grim I made a promise tomyself and God that I would not give up. I will continue to do what My counselor asks of me to do for myself and try to do whatever I can day by day.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

She asked for a divorce. Im not really sure what to feel at this point. Again I wanted to say thank you to the folks who gave me good advice as to help me correct some of my wrongs. I gave it my best. I will continue to work on myself so I have better control in the decisions I make in the future. For now I still love her knowing I will not get that love back and we both want to make sure our kids will be well taken care of. That is whats important I know. That thought of wishing It could have worked will always fester in my mind. She made her choice and as hard as it may have been for her I will have to respect that.


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## Saddaddy (Feb 17, 2010)

Please remove quote. Thank you.


Tanelornpete said:


> First thing to do - _*stop feeling sorry for yourself.*_ All that does is waste time. What exactly is the payoff you get from this behavior? Is it worth the pain and sadness?
> 
> Second: stop what you are doing! We've given you a lot of good advice on this board - start actually doing the work that we have suggested - what is the worst that could happen? So far you've tried to do everything the way you want to do it - and it's not really working out for you.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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