# Aren't there any success stories



## loverguy (Jun 27, 2016)

*Makeup success stories*

I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Separation and divorce were great!!!! Did NOT get back together, which was a real win for me. The marriage was not worth saving, which is why I left. (She was happier eventually, too - so win/win.) Look on the bright side - just look at it as a positive, and make it turn out that way. I'm sorry if it is difficult now - disaster and misery usually do lead to positive change, though.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Depends on what you consider success. Depends on what happened in the marriage. There's some R stories on here. 

I do agree that many people jump straight to D here, and I find it regrettable. There's a common theme here and in society that if you're not happy you should forget your vows and find someone else. Sadly, that entire thought process is a fool's errand, for it relegates happiness to something someone else gives you, rather than something you find in yourself. In time, if those people don't find a way to be happy with themselves they'll end up right where they left their last marriage. 

But of course sometimes a broke thing can't be fixed.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

loverguy said:


> I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


I've never had a failure. Was with a woman from age 25 to 34 and then split. I learned a lot about getting along with others. Her incapability to deal with the world in any fashion other than anger required me to develop the patience of Job, which benefits me to this very day. Her bizarre behavior with money - talk a good line about investments, but keep choosing weird schemes run by companies that then go out of business, taught me some techniques that helped me handle money right. Learning from her some things I liked in a woman and somethings I didn't helped me, 5 years later, select a wife who was a better match.

And even as I think the marriage I"m in now will end, it was better than those nine years and I would, given a chance, do all of it all over again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you mean people who stay together and are happy (as opposed to people who just stay together) -- Yes, there are some success stories on TAM but not that many. And very few that are really long-term (meaning decades). Just like in real life.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

If this place is starting to get you down, take a break from it for a few days.

As stated from time to time: TAM is for people having problems in their marriage. So, if you spend too much time here, you do start to get the feeling that all marriages are doomed and have unsolvable problems.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Makeup success stories*

Yep. EI and B1.

My wife and I are still together. Though my story does tend to trigger some people, so I am not really happy sharing it, now.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

*Re: Makeup success stories*

My wife and I had a work related separation that was suppose to be for 6 months...MAX. Huge money, with which we could live comfortably while we both attended college. Very High Risk -Short Duration...Long Money. it took almost 2 years for me to get back into the US. During that time, communication was difficult...she spent much of that time not sure if I was alive, dead, imprisoned or just not coming back. She and her family kept at it...dealing with different embassies, many different authorities, and almost international indictment for war crimes, crimes against humanity and the worst...crimes against peace. 

She didn't give up on us. SHe had faith and she had enough love to fight. I, in no way am now nor will I ever be deserving of the love she has for me. I will forever be both in awe of and striving to be worthy of her. Its been 27 years since the day we met far far from home in Seoul....I believe we are a success...against so many odds...started too young...survived too much adversity...but yet...here we are. 

Nothing is impossible. Especially in terms of love....it is by far, the most powerful thing in the world


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: Makeup success stories*

First came here on the verge of thinking that divorce was where I was going to end up. 

We've weathered some pretty major issues:

1) Constant disagreements about sex - me LD, him HD
2) Not spending time together - him addicted to gaming. I think it was him trying to escape the stress he was under, but it just created more stress
3) Family - his mother dumping all her nasty issues on me every time we saw her (when I was already dealing with depression) then being nasty about me behind my back. DH wanting me to treat her like I did my own family, which I tried, but nothing I did was ever good enough
4) Depression - me, pretty bad after 2nd child born
5) Owning and working in a business together - broke, bad decisions made, me closing it down despite his protests and him being extremely resentful over it.
6) No chance of getting marriage counselling - DH absolutely wouldn't agree to it

What saved us? Education and communication, and a healthy dose of what DH describes as stubbornness and I describe as determination, depending on who we're talking about, and which we both have in abundance.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

loverguy said:


> I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


Perhaps they might, but for me a year later, like I assume many others here, I find myself thinking, if we did get back together what would my old partner bring to the relationship? Our interests went in quite separate ways and while I miss the opportunity to cuddle up; I don't miss the cancelling of my interests, their crappy friends, complaints about not going out (partner knows how to book tickets too), I have space in my house, I'm not financially worrying aboput carrying someone else, not constantly trying to engage or entertain the other perons, or trying to get them to participate in things I like, I can spend time with my kids without the mental drag of dragging someone else along who refuses to participate even verbally etc


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## wellseasoned (Jan 8, 2016)

In my 25 year marriage I've seen many marriages come and go. I mean wow!!!! The world has dramatically changed fast!! 

Two becoming one is a difficult thing.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



MarriedDude said:


> My wife and I had a work related separation that was suppose to be for 6 months...MAX. Huge money, with which we could live comfortably while we both attended college. Very High Risk -Short Duration...Long Money. it took almost 2 years for me to get back into the US. During that time, communication was difficult...she spent much of that time not sure if I was alive, dead, imprisoned or just not coming back. She and her family kept at it...dealing with different embassies, many different authorities, and almost international indictment for war crimes, crimes against humanity and the worst...crimes against peace.
> 
> She didn't give up on us. SHe had faith and she had enough love to fight. I, in no way am now nor will I ever be deserving of the love she has for me. I will forever be both in awe of and striving to be worthy of her. Its been 27 years since the day we met far far from home in Seoul....I believe we are a success...against so many odds...started too young...survived too much adversity...but yet...here we are.
> 
> Nothing is impossible. Especially in terms of love....it is by far, the most powerful thing in the world


This sounds very interesting. Had you thought about writing about it? If you can't, you could have a pen name and write it as a fictional account.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Kivlor said:


> Depends on what you consider success. Depends on what happened in the marriage. There's some R stories on here.
> 
> I do agree that many people jump straight to D here, and I find it regrettable. There's a common theme here and in society that if you're not happy you should forget your vows and find someone else. Sadly, that entire thought process is a fool's errand, for it relegates happiness to something someone else gives you, rather than something you find in yourself. In time, if those people don't find a way to be happy with themselves they'll end up right where they left their last marriage.
> 
> But of course sometimes a broke thing can't be fixed.


:iagree: Well said.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



CynthiaDe said:


> This sounds very interesting. Had you thought about writing about it? If you can't, you could have a pen name and write it as a fictional account.


Maybe. A quick paragraph is one thing..it too long to reintegrate to with my family to risk bringing it all to the front again.

That life isn't interesting to me anymore...only the one good that came if it. Her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



loverguy said:


> I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


It takes two to tango. I originally thiught that the separation would do us good and help us get back together. Since she refused to meet and communicate during separation, the marriage failed. In order for a marriage to be resurrected, BOTH must be actively involved. Then again, if noth were a tively involved, there wouldn't be a separation or divorce. People sometimes lose their way in life. You can try to work with them, but if they refuse to work and commuicate on ans in the marriage, it will fail. The key word today, commuication from both.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



MarriedDude said:


> My wife and I had a work related separation that was suppose to be for 6 months...MAX. Huge money, with which we could live comfortably while we both attended college. Very High Risk -Short Duration...Long Money. it took almost 2 years for me to get back into the US. During that time, communication was difficult...she spent much of that time not sure if I was alive, dead, imprisoned or just not coming back. She and her family kept at it...dealing with different embassies, many different authorities, and almost international indictment for war crimes, crimes against humanity and the worst...crimes against peace.
> 
> She didn't give up on us. SHe had faith and she had enough love to fight. I, in no way am now nor will I ever be deserving of the love she has for me. I will forever be both in awe of and striving to be worthy of her. Its been 27 years since the day we met far far from home in Seoul....I believe we are a success...against so many odds...started too young...survived too much adversity...but yet...here we are.
> 
> Nothing is impossible. Especially in terms of love....it is by far, the most powerful thing in the world


Women like this exist nowadays? Now your just pulling my leg.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

*Re: Makeup success stories*


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MarriedDude said:


> Maybe. A quick paragraph is one thing..it too long to reintegrate to with my family to risk bringing it all to the front again.
> 
> That life isn't interesting to me anymore...only the one good that came if it. Her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am serious, you can right a book (a real one) just on this experience alone. What might make it better is that you can write it with your wife. Or she writes the preface, you write the rest.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



Almost-Done said:


> Women like this exist nowadays? Now your just pulling my leg.


Yes. They are everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Makeup success stories*

There are quite a few.

There are just a bunch in the midst and could go either way.

Additionally, few come here who are already in relationships with healthy foundations.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

*Re: Makeup success stories*

I am in a great marriage. We've been married for 20 years, together for 22 years. No cheating, no separation, nothing negative except for her being LD. But, she has always been that way. 

There are others on this board who are similar. I consider TAM to generally be pro marriage. The CWI section seems somewhat quick to jump on the D train, but infidelity is tough to overcome. We do have a long term marriage forum, but it's pretty slow.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I never separated from my wife after an episode of infidelity. We've managed to keep our marriage together and improve on it. Now that the kids are grown and out of the house, life is pretty good.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I never separated from my wife after an episode of infidelity. We've managed to keep our marriage together and improve on it. Now that the kids are grown and out of the house, life is pretty good.


Did you tell her about it right away? How did she react when you confessed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> Did you tell her about it right away? How did she react when you confessed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She knew about it within two weeks - if I had no concern for her health, I could have hid it to this day, but an STD scare played my hand for me. She reacted about as you'd expect, though she never threatened divorce. She said my honesty in confessing rather than endanger her played a big part. 

Mostly, I was forcibly removed from a pedestal upon which I probably had no business being.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> She knew about it within two weeks - if I had no concern for her health, I could have hid it to this day, but an STD scare played my hand for me. She reacted about as you'd expect, though she never threatened divorce. She said my honesty in confessing rather than endanger her played a big part.
> 
> Mostly, I was forcibly removed from a pedestal upon which I probably had no business being.


You used to say she would only do missionary with you--no oral or other positions at all. Was that why you had the ONS? Has she become more open to variety since?

You obviously do not have to answer. I just noticed you do not seem to complain about the lack of variety anymore. Not sure if things had changed or you just accepted it.
.
Well, as long as I am asking, things going better between her and your dad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> You used to say she would only do missionary with you--no oral or other positions at all. Was that why you had the ONS?


The short answer to that question is yes. I was our sexual incompatibility that led to it. 



jld said:


> [Has she become more open to variety since?


In her small way. Enough to honestly say that she has tried, within her personal limitations. We still have a 3 sigma vanilla bland sex life, but it is better now than before if I do a before/after comparison. 



jld said:


> You obviously do not have to answer. I just noticed you do not seem to complain about the lack of variety anymore. Not sure if things had changed or you just accepted it.


Acceptance. It's all you can really do in the end if you are as committed as we are to staying together. We will never be sexually compatible, but we can still have a good marriage. The older I get, the less it matters, and the more the intangibles of being able to live comfortably with another person become important. 



jld said:


> Well, as long as I am asking, things going better between her and your dad?


This is her "affair" event. This is where I learned some ugly truths about my wife. It did not end well at all - he is no longer living with us. We even saw a marriage counselor over it, something that my infidelity never forced us to do. 

But then, I sort of owed her one, didn't I? And in the context of this thread, that's part of a success story. Working to stay with a spouse when they stumble as well as when they're making you giddy.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

My marriage has gotten a lot better in the last few years. My wife is still working on getting over the sexual wounds / issues from her past. I actually expected her to walk rather than work on sex life.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/204514-what-do-i-do-am-i-unreasonable.html


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

My DH and I never have separated. We have had some bad times over the years, as does any marriage. We are into decade number 2, have been together most of our lives now. We love each other madly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> My DH and I never have separated. We have had some bad times over the years, as does any marriage. We are into decade number 2, have been together most of our lives now. We love each other madly.


He had an EA last Christmas, right? How did you two resolve that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> He had an EA last Christmas, right? How did you two resolve that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Meh... Not really. Kinda? It is a little different for us, as you know. We resolved it with honesty.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Meh... Not really. Kinda? It is a little different for us, as you know. We resolved it with honesty.


I remember you started a thread in CWI on it. Was never sure exactly how it got resolved, though. 

Honesty is surely required in any successful long term resolution of conflict. And in a poly situation, it is probably even more important.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> I remember you started a thread in CWI on it. Was never sure exactly how it got resolved, though.
> 
> Honesty is surely required in any successful long term resolution of conflict. And in a poly situation, it is probably even more important.


My PoV was a little mental at the time. Through discussion we arrived at a common understanding of exactly what was going on.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Openminded said:


> If you mean people who stay together and are happy (as opposed to people who just stay together) -- Yes, there are some success stories on TAM but not that many. And very few that are really long-term (meaning decades). Just like in real life.


I'm in the decades category. 

Reliable statistics on how many marriages survive infidelity are hard to come by. I think it's probably about 30-40% but I can't prove that.

If I had followed the prevailing philosophy at TAM I don't think my marriage would have survived. I think that is why there are so few success stories at TAM....because the people who are going to make it often don't stay around here. 

The tone of the discussion is definitely different from when I signed up four years ago. There were more "making it" couples then.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It's not like there should be a 50/50 split here. Of course most of these end up in divorce. It's like, "I am sick of seeing all the stories about getting shot in the head and then dying. Doesn't anyone have a success story?". Yeah, but most people either die, or are pretty ****ed up after getting shot in the head. Even in Regarding Henry, I think he got shot in the shoulder or something.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

There are a lot of people on TAM that suggest divorce pretty quickly. I noticed that right away when I joined. You can figure out which ones are bitter pretty easily, so it's hard to take those people seriously. 

However, I think there are quite a lot of people on here that are TRYING to make it work. So while maybe you can't quite call it a success story yet, they are actively working to save their marriage.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I'm in the decades category.
> 
> Reliable statistics on how many marriages survive infidelity are hard to come by. I think it's probably about 30-40% but I can't prove that.
> 
> ...


 You were who I had in mind for the "decades" category. At one time I thought I was in that category too. Mine lasted 30 years after DD1. We live and learn.

PS
I think maybe 30% survive and are happy. More than that probably survive but are not necessarily happy. Just my observation of family and friends.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Openminded said:


> You were who I had in mind for the "decades" category. At one time I thought I was in that category too. Mine lasted 30 years after DD1. We live and learn.
> 
> PS
> I think maybe 30% survive and are happy. More than that probably survive but are not necessarily happy. Just my observation of family and friends.


Can I ask what ended yours? I guess, specifically was it the affair, underlying problems that had contributed to the affair, or something unrelated?

One of my "secrets" is to not be consumerist abiut marriage. There are times when it has not been a good deal for me, and I have carried things. There are other times I have been carried. Either of us could have given in to resentment at times and walked. Being committed can take work. That might make it an unhappy marriage for some, though that is not my view.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Can I ask what ended yours? I guess, specifically was it the affair, underlying problems that had contributed to the affair, or something unrelated?
> 
> One of my "secrets" is to not be consumerist abiut marriage. There are times when it has not been a good deal for me, and I have carried things. There are other times I have been carried. Either of us could have given in to resentment at times and walked. Being committed can take work. That might make it an unhappy marriage for some, though that is not my view.


My ex-husband and I met at 18 and married a couple of years later. Much too young to see how incompatible we really were. About Year 15, I found evidence he was cheating with someone who worked for him. She was not the first of his employees I was suspicious of but she was the first I had proof for. He minimized it and pleaded with me not to divorce him. I was concerned about the effects of divorce on our almost-teenaged son so I stayed. 

Over the next three decades I thought we had worked through it. Then one day she called him at home and I overheard the conversation. I don't know if they were in contact the entire 30 years or not but I had warned him when DD1 occurred that I wouldn't tolerate a reoccurrence. So after 45 years of marriage, ignoring his pleas, I divorced him. He remarried the moment I had the Final Decree in hand but not to his AP. A few months ago he died. I'll always miss him. 

Why did he cheat? He was very much a KISA and liked weak, needy women. I'm strong and independent and he didn't really like that. I'm not someone who ever shows vulnerability and he needed someone who could be vulnerable, I think.

I wish we could have made it work.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Openminded said:


> My ex-husband and I met at 18 and married a couple of years later. Much too young to see how incompatible we really were. About Year 15, I found evidence he was cheating with someone who worked for him. She was not the first of his employees I was suspicious of but she was the first I had proof for. He minimized it and pleaded with me not to divorce him. I was concerned about the effects of divorce on our almost-teenaged son so I stayed.
> 
> Over the next three decades I thought we had worked through it. Then one day she called him at home and I overheard the conversation. I don't know if they were in contact the entire 30 years or not but I had warned him when DD1 occurred that I wouldn't tolerate a reoccurrence. So after 45 years of marriage, ignoring his pleas, I divorced him. He remarried the moment I had the Final Decree in hand but not to his AP. A few months ago he died. I'll always miss him.
> 
> ...


Any particular reason you did not feel comfortable showing your vulnerability to him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Going back and reading your other posts . . . . .
Are you sure . . . . .
I'm not really sure success stories are what you need.
Proverbs 26:11

Many people would consider my marriage to be a success we have been together 29 years with no separation. 
There was a wandering heart (one way emotional affair)
There was cold feet. I almost backed out of the engagement.
There has been near sexlessness (technically more than 12 times a year)
But we came back each time. Or at least we headed back in the right direction.
We have never faced what you are facing.
Could we survive financial and sexual infidelity? I believe that it would be a serious challenge for an established long term relationship. I think it would break us for good. Some things just don't fade away.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

PS to Wazza

I would say my childhood baggage strongly contributed to how I reacted to him. I'm an only child and was brought up to be tough and unflinching no matter what. No tears, no emotion -- no matter what. That's basically how I've lived my life.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jld said:


> Any particular reason you did not feel comfortable showing your vulnerability to him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just the way I was brought up. I'm not an emotional person although I definitely was when he died. I thought of him smiling at me and saying "It took my death to make you cry?"


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



loverguy said:


> I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


Success only happens when you set out to succeed.

If you apply for a job because you need the money, you're not building a career. If you get married because you like the other person, you're not building a family. That's why most marriages end because of financial issues.

You want french fries and burger comes with french fries. You order the burger. You get your order and you realize you're a vegetarian. How do you save this lunch? You eat the burger and convince yourself that you like it. That was 22 years ago. Happily married with 3 kids. The fries were tasty.:smile2:


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> There are a lot of people on TAM that suggest divorce pretty quickly. I noticed that right away when I joined. You can figure out which ones are bitter pretty easily, so it's hard to take those people seriously.
> 
> However, I think there are quite a lot of people on here that are TRYING to make it work. So while maybe you can't quite call it a success story yet, they are actively working to save their marriage.


I have a great marriage and am very happy, yet when I read posts from people describing their train wreck marriages, I often think divorce is the best thing they could possibly do.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Too much good pu$$y out there to settle on a woman that is crazy or cheats on you! Most of us aren't going to live our lives with regrets.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Just the way I was brought up. I'm not an emotional person although I definitely was when he died. I thought of him smiling at me and saying "It took my death to make you cry?"


Gently...

I see this an anything but strength, even while I appreciate the transparency in discussing it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Gently...
> 
> I see this an anything but strength, even while I appreciate the transparency in discussing it.


Smiling. 

I might do things differently if I had my life to live over.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Smiling.
> 
> I might do things differently if I had my life to live over.




Your life is far from over.

How many have you kept out this way? More specifically, how many who you did not want to keep out, yet still did?

Feel free to tell me to pound sand if you don't feel like answering.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Your life is far from over.
> 
> How many have you kept out this way? More specifically, how many who you did not want to keep out, yet still did?
> 
> Feel free to tell me to pound sand if you don't feel like answering.


I just don't want to be guilty of a thread jack (although I likely am). 

My family is generally exempt from my distance. They get the absolute best I have to offer. No one else has ever been exempt -- certainly not in a romantic sense. We aren't all cut out for a relationship and I'm definitely not. I can't trust (childhood baggage) so I can't ever be vulnerable. 

All that said, I'm very comfortable with myself. I just wish I had been able to be a better wife. I was very much a giver -- but a distant one. Luckily, during the three years before his death (after the divorce) he and I were able to heal all those wounds. He though I was a wonderful wife. Smiling. I know better.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

To me the word 'success' suggests an end point. 

Progress and learning is more captivating.

Have we progressed over the years and particularly since I joined here? ....Yes!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

DustyDog said:


> I've never had a failure. Was with a woman from age 25 to 34 and then split. I learned a lot about getting along with others. *Her incapability to deal with the world in any fashion other than anger required me to develop the patience of Job, which benefits me to this very day*. Her bizarre behavior with money - talk a good line about investments, but keep choosing weird schemes run by companies that then go out of business, taught me some techniques that helped me handle money right. Learning from her some things I liked in a woman and somethings I didn't helped me, 5 years later, select a wife who was a better match.
> 
> And even as I think the marriage I"m in now will end, it was better than those nine years and I would, given a chance, do all of it all over again.


I also have had this experience of initially choosing the wrong person but in my case got married when I shouldn't have. Her anger issues didn't show up until after it was too late. Now that I see how marriage and divorce work I don't think that I'll ever do it again if I ever get out of the one I'm in now. I want to be able to leave without getting penalized if I ever get into another bad relationship.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

jld said:


> Any particular reason you did not feel comfortable showing your vulnerability to him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would like to point out jld, in case this was lost on you, that Openminded is not unique in this way and that your way of living life simply isn't possible or even desirable for everyone. 

What works for you in life, simply won't ever work for some others. 

If it did we would all be robots with the same programming and not the diverse community with a variety of life experience that we appear to be and that we can appreciate.

Now that my threadjack is over, to the OP...it depends on what you consider "success". 

I'd like to think, if I ever leave this place, that I helped a few posters succeed, be that in getting out of a bad relationship or helping build a new one within the marriage that they had. I can't tell you right now exactly how many each way, but I've had the profound satisfaction of assisting with both.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Tron said:


> I would like to point out jld, in case this was lost on you, that Openminded is not unique in this way and that your way of living life simply isn't possible or even desirable for everyone.
> 
> What works for you in life, simply won't ever work for some others.
> 
> If it did we would all be robots with the same programming and not the diverse community with a variety of life experience that we appear to be and that we can appreciate.


Being vulnerable with our spouses will not work for everyone?

I thought it was essential in modern, Western marriage.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

jld said:


> Being vulnerable with our spouses will not work for everyone?
> 
> I thought it was essential in modern, Western marriage.


I think in a utopia every woman could make herself completely vulnerable to her H and every H vulnerable to his W. 

That isn't the world we live in. Some people cannot handle and are not worthy of such responsibility.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Tron said:


> I think in a utopia every woman could make herself completely vulnerable to her H and every H vulnerable to his W.
> 
> That isn't the world we live in. Some people cannot handle and are not worthy of such responsibility.


I could not be married to someone with whom I did not share such intimacy. And Sue Johnson, in _Hold Me Tight_, puts great emphasis on deep emotional intimacy in marriage.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> I think in a utopia every woman could make herself completely vulnerable to her H and every H vulnerable to his W.
> 
> That isn't the world we live in. Some people cannot handle and are not worthy of such responsibility.


The people that can't handle it probably have no business being married.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

jld said:


> I could not be married to someone with whom I did not share such intimacy. And Sue Johnson, in _Hold Me Tight_, puts great emphasis on deep emotional intimacy in marriage.


I know. 

Be grateful, because I believe that you are the exception, not the rule...and even more unique than you think. 

The marriage and divorce stats seem to prove that out.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> The people that can't handle it probably have no business being married.


Then you probably just consigned everyone who even looks just a little bit like they might be on the spectrum to a single life. 

It's not necessary than anyone be completely vulnerable with his spouse unless it's necessary for the spouse. All kinds of people are comfortable with varying degrees of vulnerability, and we even hear plenty of stories in these threads where some women consider that level of vulnerability in a man to be a turnoff.

Different strokes.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Then you probably just consigned everyone who even looks just a little bit like they might be on the spectrum to a single life.
> 
> It's not necessary than anyone be completely vulnerable with his spouse unless it's necessary for the spouse. All kinds of people are comfortable with varying degrees of vulnerability, and we even hear plenty of stories in these threads where some women consider that level of vulnerability in a man to be a turnoff.
> 
> Different strokes.


Does this mean you are _not_ completely emotionally vulnerable to your wife, Cletus? Or that she is not to you?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> The people that can't handle it probably have no business being married.


I am not going to argue with you, but just try and convince over half the population of this planet that they have no business being married and see how that goes over...


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

jld said:


> Does this mean you are _not_ completely emotionally vulnerable to your wife, Cletus? Or that she is not to you?


I hope this isn't being asked in a somehow judgmental way. OR if the answer is no that that is a problem.

For me and my W...the answer is no and no. 

Do you have an issue with that jld? 

If so, why?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Tron said:


> I am not going to argue with you, but just try and convince over half the population of this planet that they have no business being married and see how that goes over...


But we're talking modern, Western marriage, right?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Tron said:


> I hope this isn't being asked in a somehow judgmental way. OR if the answer is no that that is a problem.
> 
> For me and my W...the answer is no and no.
> 
> ...


No issue to me.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Tron said:


> I think in a utopia every woman could make herself completely vulnerable to her H and every H vulnerable to his W.
> 
> That isn't the world we live in. Some people cannot handle and are not worthy of such responsibility.


It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I am vulnerable to my wife, but completely vulnerable? No.

why is it so important to be vulnerable?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I am vulnerable to my wife, but completely vulnerable? No.
> 
> why is it so important to be vulnerable?


It is how spouses become close.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jld said:


> It is how spouses become close.


But that is not all or nothing. Not if you want to stay married.

Perhaps an excessive focus on that is why 50% of modern western marriages end in divorce. And perhaps the fact that I had to work through an affair makes my marriage different to yours.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Perhaps an excessive focus on that is why 50% of modern western marriages end in divorce.


I never really though about that. Interesting hypothesis. Maybe it has some merit.

I always wanted the whole enchilada. But all in all it's pretty good even if it seems I settle for something a little less.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Makeup success stories*



loverguy said:


> I'm tired of reading all the negative posts about separation and divorce. Does anyone have a success story of how they got back together and saved the marriage.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/32264-hello.html#post434954


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> But that is not all or nothing. Not if you want to stay married.
> 
> Perhaps an excessive focus on that is why 50% of modern western marriages end in divorce. And perhaps the fact that I had to work through an affair makes my marriage different to yours.


If I could not be completely vulnerable, I would not want to be married.

That would be an interesting thread: What makes marriage worth it to you?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jld said:


> If I could not be completely vulnerable, I would not want to be married.


You might feel different if it was a real situation, not hypothetical. Or maybe not. You might become another notch in the divorce statistics.

How does vulnerability fit with your notion of the strong superior man?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> You might feel different if it was a real situation, not hypothetical. Or maybe not. You might become another notch in the divorce statistics.
> 
> How does vulnerability fit with your notion of the strong superior man?


Dug said once that it is fine for a man to share his feelings with his wife. He just cannot expect her to take responsibility for them.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jld said:


> Dug said once that it is fine for a man to share his feelings with his wife. He just cannot expect her to take responsibility for them.


How is that vulnerable?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> How is that vulnerable?


Sharing his feelings.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Why would people come here and talk about how awesome their marriage is? Sites like TAM select for those experiencing problems. People generally don't complain when things are going great.

I think there are some people here who successfully repaired their marriage issues, however. Hopefully they will post, as I'd also enjoy reading about those success stories.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jld said:


> Sharing his feelings.


Why does he bother to do that? What does he get from it if you have no responsibility to help him with them?

Persist with this for a little longer, because it goes to what constitutes success.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Why does he bother to do that? What does he get from it if you have no responsibility to help him with them?
> 
> Persist with this for a little longer, because it goes to what constitutes success.


To share himself with me. I do not need to have responsibility for him for him to do that. And he does not have need for me to do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jld said:


> To share himself with me. I do not need to have responsibility for him for him to do that. And he does not have need for me to do that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I recall you at one stage wanting him to share more. It may be that in part he does it for your sake? If he's doing it for his own sake, then he does it because it pleases him. What would happen if it stopped pleasing him?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I think I recall you at one stage wanting him to share more. It may be that in part he does it for your sake? If he's doing it for his own sake, then he does it because it pleases him. What would happen if it stopped pleasing him?


When I first came to TAM, I was amazed by all the emotion in the men here. I wondered if Dug had emotions, too, that I had just never seen.

But he doesn't. There is really nothing hidden. There is just not much emotion, period.

Dug is a very consistent person. I don't expect he will be any different emotionally in his dying days than he is now.


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