# How do some women become so cold and distant?



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

I am going through a divorce with my wife of about 3 years. It seemed like right after the marriage, she changed into a cold person who just cared about herself. Me and the marriage were secondary. We dated for 2 years before marriage. How does one show as caring and loving, and then switch? I am not rich or have status, so she wasn't a gold digger or status junky. I would just like to know if this is something I need to be looking out for moving forward. If I do, what are some of the signs. 

I am just so confused by her actions and motives. She wanted to work on the marriage, yet put nothing in, communicate, read books, work on programs together. 

My mind is racing looking for the cause. I just do not understand. The woman makes things up in her mind and actually believes them. This is an educated smart woman. I really have no idea what the heck is going on here.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sorry to say, but what you see is who she is. There really not much you can do but accept it. 

Is the divorce already in progress? Are you still living in the same home?

What are you doing for yourself?


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry to say, but what you see is who she is. There really not much you can do but accept it.
> 
> Is the divorce already in progress? Are you still living in the same home?
> 
> What are you doing for yourself?


I am accepting it, but it's very hard to do at times. She moved out two Sundays ago and was served a week after. Since then, she's cut all contact from me. She told the person from my atty's office who served her that she's glad it is over and wants a clean divorce. 

I am focusing on work and myself. Since I only had a couple of friends which were husbands of her friends, they've cut off contact. Family is supportive as well as others who know us. They've all said the woman is a bit nuts at the way she's handling things since the separation. She's really all over the place. I have a feeling it's not going to be as easy and calm as she told the serving guy once she has to give a huge retainer to a lawyer. I had to give 5k. I would assume it's the same for her. She does make more than me, however, I am not asking for anything aside from her signature and release from prison. In theory, it could be over in 30 days. Or, it can take a year. Really depends on her. 

I was told she was really angry that I was pushing things along at a faster pace than she wanted. She wanted to be the one end the marriage and who filed for divorce. Never knew it mattered. It's pretty obvious that we had different goals in marriage. She wanted a slave. I wanted a partner.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She has ended contact with you because for her it's over. Most people do that with a divorce. If you are going through lawyers, there is no need for you two to ever talk to each other again.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> It seemed like right after the marriage, she changed into a cold person who just cared about herself. Me and the marriage were secondary. We dated for 2 years before marriage. How does one show as caring and loving, and then switch?


Cause she was pretending... she used you until she no longer needed you.

Some people just suck. 

If you need to work on something start with your people picker and learning to detect red flags.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> She has ended contact with you because for her it's over. Most people do that with a divorce. If you are going through lawyers, there is no need for you two to ever talk to each other again.


No doubt and I agree. My question was if we're not talking or working together, what did she think would happen? Just stay in neutral until she says it's over?


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Cause she was pretending... she used you until she no longer needed you.
> 
> Some people just suck.
> 
> If you need to work on something start with your people picker and learning to detect red flags.


What are some red flags to look for and what is the best way to sharpen my people picker?


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> What are some red flags to look for and what is the best way to sharpen my people picker?


I could write a book....

The best thing to do is judge people by their ACTIONS not their words. 

If they DO something that bothers you, ignore the words coming out of their mouth and trust your gut. 

You'd be surprised how accurate basic primitive human instincts are.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> I could write a book....
> 
> The best thing to do is judge people by their ACTIONS not their words.
> 
> ...


Yea, I know. I recall times in the past where she did some pretty questionable things to me. I guess I just looked the other way.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Almost-Done said:


> No doubt and I agree. My question was if we're not talking or working together, what did she think would happen? Just stay in neutral until she says it's over?


It sounds like that is what she expected. I guess she was wrong. It's a good thing that you filed and moved forward instead of leaving it up to her to decide your fate.


----------



## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Yea, I know. I recall times in the past where she did some pretty questionable things to me. I guess I just looked the other way.


I'm sorry things ended that way for you. 
Ele is correct some people cut all contact in order to move on. 
Could you elaborate please on the questionable things that you overlooked? 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You didn't mention how long you were together before marriage, but avoid marrying too quickly. Perhaps she went cold so soon after the marriage because the infatuation period (AKA Limerence) had passed and she realized she wasn't too happy with the reality. They say the limerence phase can last 6 months to a couple years. So, wait until a year or two has passed before discussing marriage.


----------



## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> You didn't mention how long you were together before marriage, but avoid marrying too quickly. Perhaps she went cold so soon after the marriage because the infatuation period (AKA Limerence) had passed and she realized she wasn't too happy with the reality. They say the limerence phase can last 6 months to a couple years. So, wait until a year or two has passed before discussing marriage.




This.
Some people are great actors and their true colors don't come out until down the road. Take your time next time and don't rush marriage. 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Why did the marriage end, I feel that we are not getting the full picture here?


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Be thankful you only have 3 years of marriage and are only"minimally" invested and have no kids together.......Consider this a learning experience. You will be fine in time.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

citygirl4344 said:


> This.
> Some people are great actors and their true colors don't come out until down the road. Take your time next time and don't rush marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


The limerence phase isn't so much about the other person's true colors showing as is is about perception. The happy chemicals your brain is on when your relationship is new cloud your thinking and cause you to view your partner through rose colored glasses. 

As those chemicals fade, the glasses get a lot less rose colored and your perception changes. What was once adorable becomes annoying. What you once overlooked as no big deal becomes a big deal.


----------



## optimalprimus (Feb 4, 2015)

Almost-Done said:


> I am going through a divorce with my wife of about 3 years. It seemed like right after the marriage, she changed into a cold person who just cared about herself. Me and the marriage were secondary. We dated for 2 years before marriage. How does one show as caring and loving, and then switch? I am not rich or have status, so she wasn't a gold digger or status junky. I would just like to know if this is something I need to be looking out for moving forward. If I do, what are some of the signs.
> 
> I am just so confused by her actions and motives. She wanted to work on the marriage, yet put nothing in, communicate, read books, work on programs together.
> 
> My mind is racing looking for the cause. I just do not understand. The woman makes things up in her mind and actually believes them. This is an educated smart woman. I really have no idea what the heck is going on here.


You have loads of threads. Better to stick to one.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> I am going through a divorce with my wife of about 3 years. It seemed like right after the marriage, she changed into a cold person who just cared about herself. Me and the marriage were secondary. We dated for 2 years before marriage. How does one show as caring and loving, and then switch? I am not rich or have status, so she wasn't a gold digger or status junky. I would just like to know if this is something I need to be looking out for moving forward. If I do, what are some of the signs.
> 
> I am just so confused by her actions and motives. She wanted to work on the marriage, yet put nothing in, communicate, read books, work on programs together.
> 
> My mind is racing looking for the cause. I just do not understand. The woman makes things up in her mind and actually believes them. This is an educated smart woman. I really have no idea what the heck is going on here.


Funny, I'm kind of in the same boat.

In my case, we were married at about 40 years old each. What I appreciated about her was her up front insistence on talking - a lot - communicating everything. Nothing held back. She "shared" (her word for talking) a lot. She presented as someone who didn't like her behavior through her 20s, immersed herself in self-help, a philosophy lecture series, studied the great minds about how one chooses a good life...pretty much what I took myself through from my 20s to my late 30s, although I didn't have any back behavior that I regretted.

Over the first few years of the marriage, all this fell away, and now I have a wife who fears her own shadow, trusts nobody (and is therefore not trustworthy) and I just don't want to be around her. What she has said about it is that "who I was trying to be when you and I met was unsustainable. THat person is not me. I am not and cannot be a strong person and now that I have you to bail me out, I can be weak again, which is who I always was. This includes basically doing anything together, whether intimate or merely going out to dine and see a show.

So, what do I look out for?

Funny, it's what I look out for when I buy a used car. I never buy from dealers, because they can't give you the useful history of the car. The useful history is what kind of person owned it...did they take care of it? So, when I meet the prospective seller, I ask "Why are you selling it?" Whatever the reason, I then just go into a pleasant conversation about life, making sure to get around to parts that would show first, whether the story is true, and second, how do they care for things. For instance, an 8 year old car was the topic, and I asked why she was selling. "My husband and I now have two kids and I wanted a larger vehicle so we got an SUV." Went to drive the car, there was hubs, two kids and SUV. She spoke lovingly about being a teacher and how much she loved kids. She also said "I don't know a thing about cars, so I religiously took it to the dealer" and had receipts to prove it.

If it were someone I was getting romantically involved with, I'd want them to have a history with other romantic interests. Hearing how those began and ended could be instructive...look for common threads. Also, see how this person engages with their hobbies - do they stay active all life long, or drift in and out? Some characteristics cross the boundaries between hobby and personal relationships.


----------



## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> The limerence phase isn't so much about the other person's true colors showing as is is about perception. The happy chemicals your brain is on when your relationship is new cloud your thinking and cause you to view your partner through rose colored glasses.
> 
> 
> 
> As those chemicals fade, the glasses get a lot less rose colored and your perception changes. What was once adorable becomes annoying. What you once overlooked as no big deal becomes a big deal.




I see what you are saying but to me those are true colors shinning through whether it's because rose glasses or off or if the acting stops.


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

IMHO, I don't think that most people who get married should be married. They're simply not mature enough to do so. 

Many people don't know themselves very well. They don't know their own beliefs, likes, dislikes or even tastes. 

Also, some people have the idea that "things will _change_" after they're married. Consider the woman who has been going out with her friends once a month for 5 years before she was married. Her potential husband may believe that he doesn't have any 'say' in whether or not she goes out with her friends as long as she's not married to him.  He may not communicate this to her, but instead appears to be _supportive_ when she goes out. 

However, once married, he lays down the law. She may not have gone out with her friends for 6 months after married, but her husband doesn't believe that she should go out with them AT ALL. EVER. Her gatherings may have been 5 friends getting together for dinner at the same restaurant for that amount of time. And while they may have a few drinks (with dinner), they're not 'trolling' for men. 

There are a number of people who don't believe they have any 'say' in their _future_ partner's behavior, style of dress, what kind of job they have, who their friends are, etc. * pre*-marriage. Suddenly, that all changes, once the vows are taken. 

The man who seemed to go-with-the-flow before marriage and 'let' his wife decide where 'they' would go out to dinner every week suddenly becomes domineering after marriage and expects his wife to do whatever _he_ wants. A wife may become domineering out of fear that her husband will try to 'boss her around' after they're married. 

And so on and so forth. 

But part of the problem is that every situation that can come up AFTER marriage can't possibly come up BEFORE marriage, plus, many people don't know themselves very well. They never consider that their beliefs may be very different from their future spouse's beliefs. They don't see the world (including their partner) as _it_ is, but instead, see it as THEY are. 

Both men and women can become cold and distant after marriage for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons may have to do with their _partner_; some have to do with _themselves_. 

Unfortunately, it seems that most people won't take the necessary time to figure out what went wrong in order to avoid those mistakes in the future. Perhaps it's their (immature) ego that prevents them from admitting their own mistakes. Then again, the other person really is the one who caused most of the issues in the marriage. 

Either way, it's probably a good idea to take some time to figure this out, including what the 'red flags' are. Just don't don't forget to correct your own red flags that you yourself may be putting out, too.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

aine said:


> Why did the marriage end, I feel that we are not getting the full picture here?


I agree.

While anything is possible when human interaction is involved, it does not compute that a warm marriage fluidity would ice-over without an advance weather alert..... a frigid cold front cometh your way.

Unless, you resided in male la-la land........as many of us do.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> Funny, I'm kind of in the same boat.
> 
> In my case, we were married at about 40 years old each. What I appreciated about her was her up front insistence on talking - a lot - communicating everything. Nothing held back. She "shared" (her word for talking) a lot. She presented as someone who didn't like her behavior through her 20s, immersed herself in self-help, a philosophy lecture series, studied the great minds about how one chooses a good life...pretty much what I took myself through from my 20s to my late 30s, although I didn't have any back behavior that I regretted.
> 
> ...


Yeah right.

When the What, Where, Who, How, When, questions pass out from your lips.....her legs will get long and fast.....away from the dangerous Bore, that you paint before her eyes.

Sorry.

Life and its past inflection/reflection should not be approached as would an *Inquisition.
*


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> I'm sorry things ended that way for you.
> Ele is correct some people cut all contact in order to move on.
> Could you elaborate please on the questionable things that you overlooked?
> 
> ...


I will list a few. Didn't tell me she was divorced for a while. Hit and kicked me a few times hard (black and blue). Refused to allow me to go with her friends and co-worker events. Cussing at me left and right.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> You didn't mention how long you were together before marriage, but avoid marrying too quickly. Perhaps she went cold so soon after the marriage because the infatuation period (AKA Limerence) had passed and she realized she wasn't too happy with the reality. They say the limerence phase can last 6 months to a couple years. So, wait until a year or two has passed before discussing marriage.


We were together for around 2.5 years before marrying. Not sure what happened, but it went south about 1.5 years into the marriage.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> This.
> Some people are great actors and their true colors don't come out until down the road. Take your time next time and don't rush marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Never going down the aisle again. Just not worth getting the State involved again.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You're lucky, no children or large assets to split. My divorce is going to take me a year to recover. But damn was it worth it!!

My advice.... just date and have fun. Don't worry about getting married. Marriage is a prison sentence. Having sex with the same person for 30+ years is depressing. The high of dating new people, sleeping with them for the first month, etc is fun fun fun. Enjoy being single and just have fun. You don't need to get in a serious relationship.

If you do end up losing your mind and get married a second time, don't be afraid to end it quickly if it goes south. No point of staying in a failed relationship just because your married.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

aine said:


> Why did the marriage end, I feel that we are not getting the full picture here?


I've posted a lot on this. However, I really do not know. She would always say, we have issues and we're not getting along. Yet, she'd never elaborate. Went to a few therapists, she didn't like the first three. Third one gave up and the fourth one she refused to allow me to go with her. Asked her to communicate with me, she refused. Asked her to meet with me, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with her Mom, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with the pastor, she refused. Asked her to read various books with me, she refused. Asked for her to go with me to a couples retreat, she and her parents laughed at me. Asked for a family intervention, she says we don't do that.

What else am I supposed to do?


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Betrayedone said:


> Be thankful you only have 3 years of marriage and are only"minimally" invested and have no kids together.......Consider this a learning experience. You will be fine in time.


They say time heals all. I guess, in time I will see.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> As those chemicals fade, the glasses get a lot less rose colored and your perception changes. What was once adorable becomes annoying. What you once overlooked as no big deal becomes a big deal.


I can agree.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> Funny, I'm kind of in the same boat.
> 
> In my case, we were married at about 40 years old each. What I appreciated about her was her up front insistence on talking - a lot - communicating everything. Nothing held back. She "shared" (her word for talking) a lot. She presented as someone who didn't like her behavior through her 20s, immersed herself in self-help, a philosophy lecture series, studied the great minds about how one chooses a good life...pretty much what I took myself through from my 20s to my late 30s, although I didn't have any back behavior that I regretted.
> 
> ...


Firstly, I am sorry you are going through something similar. I hope you two are able to work things out. I can tell you, even though it is a short marriage, the divorce is still a hard thing to do. It took me months to pull the trigger. Once trust, love and respect are gone, it's hard to get all three back. 

I know I should had gone into more in-depth conversations about her past relationships, why she feels they failed and what she learned from them. I just naively told myself, none of my business. Very dumb of me. She had no hobbies but TV and texting. She's as lazy as they come. When she moved in I became her private broomhilda. Cleaning up after her left and right. She did nothing but go to work, come home to sleep on the couch, then the bed and repeat. Never seen this from an adult before.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Vega said:


> IMHO, I don't think that most people who get married should be married. They're simply not mature enough to do so.
> 
> Many people don't know themselves very well. They don't know their own beliefs, likes, dislikes or even tastes.
> 
> ...


Makes a lot of sense. She didn't go out with her friends much before marriage. Mostly just with me and her parents. After marriage and she moved in, I didn't boss or request anything from her aside from help around the house, food shopping and cooking together. I encouraged her to go out with her friends all the time, she declined until the end of the marriage. After about a month of living together, she stopped cleaning up after herself and cooking. Thus, I was cooking for both of us four days a week. I do not mind cooking, but there was little appreciation. I work 8 - 10 hours a day as well, then come home to cook. We'd come home the same time, she'd complain that the food isn't ready yet. ??? She stopped with the food shopping as well last year. So basically, I am paying and doing everything, and she's keeping her money and doing nothing. So, financially, I was getting killed as she refused to have a joint checking account as well. It got pretty bad. The kicker is she makes double what I make. How's that for fair in terms of sharing the bills. When she moved out, the utility and food bills were much more economical and affordable.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> I agree.
> 
> While anything is possible when human interaction is involved, it does not compute that a warm marriage fluidity would ice-over without an advance weather alert..... a frigid cold front cometh your way.
> 
> Unless, you resided in male la-la land........as many of us do.


She slowly got cold over time. Please feel free to read my previous threads. I am told that by others she's wasn't very warm, but I guess may be I had blinders on. Perhaps, it was also because I never asked her to do anything. I took care of everything. I used to joke with her, she's a great wife as long as I do what she wants and not ask her for a thing.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> You're lucky, no children or large assets to split. My divorce is going to take me a year to recover. But damn was it worth it!!
> 
> My advice.... just date and have fun. Don't worry about getting married. Marriage is a prison sentence. Having sex with the same person for 30+ years is depressing. The high of dating new people, sleeping with them for the first month, etc is fun fun fun. Enjoy being single and just have fun. You don't need to get in a serious relationship.
> 
> If you do end up losing your mind and get married a second time, don't be afraid to end it quickly if it goes south. No point of staying in a failed relationship just because your married.


It's going to be awhile for me to date. As for sex for the same person for 30+ years. She ended intimacy back in early 2015. Even the therapists said to us that this will ultimately kill the marriage. They asked her why? She said she doesn't want too. Why? Are you not attracted to your husband? No, very attracted. Does he not satisfy you, no, that's not it. Then why? I just do not want to. I don't know why, I just do not want to. Myself and the therapists (more than one) looked at her with the same confused look.


I can say, I will never get married again. It's just not worth it.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> It's going to be awhile for me to date. As for sex for the same person for 30+ years. She ended intimacy back in early 2015. Even the therapists said to us that this will ultimately kill the marriage. They asked her why? She said she doesn't want too. Why? Are you not attracted to your husband? No, very attracted. Does he not satisfy you, no, that's not it. Then why? _I just do not want to. I don't know why, I just do not want to._ Myself and the therapists (more than one) looked at her with the same confused look.
> 
> 
> I can say, I will never get married again. It's just not worth it.


Trust me, she KNOWS 'why'. She may not know it _consciously_, but she knows...

She may have been too _scared_ to say or too _embarrassed_ to say or the real reason may have shattered the _image_ she had of herself being a 'good' person. She may have come to believe that sex was 'dirty' or that men use sex to 'control' women (which would turn her off) or that marriage is a means for men to get sex. If she believed that last statement and if you wanted sex from her, then nothing that you could have said would have been able to convince her otherwise. 

Even if you did other things in the home, such as cooking, cleaning, etc., she may have believed that you were only doing those things in order to justify getting sex from her. 

Then again, it could have been none of the above. 

I'm just throwing out possibilities....


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Vega said:


> Trust me, she KNOWS 'why'. She may not know it _consciously_, but she knows...
> 
> She may have been too _scared_ to say or too _embarrassed_ to say or the real reason may have shattered the _image_ she had of herself being a 'good' person. She may have come to believe that sex was 'dirty' or that men use sex to 'control' women (which would turn her off) or that marriage is a means for men to get sex. If she believed that last statement and if you wanted sex from her, then nothing that you could have said would have been able to convince her otherwise.
> 
> ...


Certainly a possibility. However, if one doesn't talk and communicate, how are you supposed to work on the issues? 

Sex stopped 1.5 years ago, I still did the items I mentioned and more. Never forced sex. If a person doesn't want to, then no is no. That's fine.


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Yeah right.
> 
> When the What, Where, Who, How, When, questions pass out from your lips.....her legs will get long and fast.....away from the dangerous Bore, that you paint before her eyes.
> 
> ...


And yet, when I begin dating a woman, she does exactly the same. This is not a 5 minute exercise, it is how two people get to know each other, very nicely describe in "The Dance of Intimacy". At no time is there an inquisition.

If you would read Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends..." you'd get it. It's not about pretending to be interested in the other person - it's about actually BEING interested in the other person.

Unless you're a complete idiot, it's very easy to keep the conversation on the other person and if they believe they're the center of attention, they will tell anything and everything, with nothing hidden. Without the Who, What, When, Where nonsense that newspaper reporters resort to that results in the inaccurate reporting we have today.


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Firstly, I am sorry you are going through something similar. I hope you two are able to work things out. I can tell you, even though it is a short marriage, the divorce is still a hard thing to do. It took me months to pull the trigger. Once trust, love and respect are gone, it's hard to get all three back.
> 
> I know I should had gone into more in-depth conversations about her past relationships, why she feels they failed and what she learned from them. I just naively told myself, none of my business. Very dumb of me. She had no hobbies but TV and texting. She's as lazy as they come. When she moved in I became her private broomhilda. Cleaning up after her left and right. She did nothing but go to work, come home to sleep on the couch, then the bed and repeat. Never seen this from an adult before.


No worries about me.

Please read up on Al Anon's concept of "detaching with love". You can feel for a person's pain without your own emotions being hurt. If you want to explore the deeper recesses of the same concept, read de Mello's "Awareness".

I still love her, respect her, and...now that I understand her motivations, trust her to the extent she can be trusted. But I do not want a life with her in it. And it causes me no pain; it is simply a task to do which I would rather not do. More concerning to me is at my age, finding another person to share my life with...I'm not a social butterfly by any means. Doing that which puts me in contact with an adequate number of correct-age women is no small task, since few go out dancing and clubbing, which is where my business takes me.

You did nothing dumb. You did what you knew to do. Now you know. Spend a great deal more time with the next one. Learn her. Learn how she lives, today and yesterday. You learn more about a person by asking how and why they make decisions than by anything else. If their answer to "why" is "gut feel", then they're unpredictable and have no real value system.

I have seen adults, before my present wife, as yours. Had a GF in college who was so emotionally incapable that work was all she could do. I made the meals, I had to drive because driving made her an emotional wreck. She meant no harm...but it was like living with an invalid. I freely admit I am not up to providing the level of support required by such a person.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Certainly a possibility. *However, if one doesn't talk and communicate, how are you supposed to work on the issues?
> *


You can't. 

For some, relationships shouldn't require THAT much 'work'. Communication shouldn't go much deeper than talking about "what's for dinner?" 

Like I said earlier, many adults have no idea who they are. They sort of get through life while in some kind of haze. The go to a job and have no idea if they even LIKE the job. They have kids because it's "what you do". Doesn't even occur to some women that they may not even WANT kids, but since 'society' _expects_ it of them, well...

Same attitude when it comes to sex. Sex is expected of adults. But there are a lot of people --both men and women--who never stop to think whether or not they actually _like_ having sex...

...or holding hands...or cuddling...or kissing...

Unfortunately, even if those people divorce, they STILL won't take a look at themselves, and they'll end up repeating the same pattern. 

Some people just aren't that 'deep'.


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

OP,

I just have to ask: did you have a strong father figure growing up, someone who showed you how to treat women right without letting them walk all over you?

Your wife beat you, left bruises on your body, cussed you out, shuts you out emotionally, doesn't help around the house and expected you to do everything, and you didn't see any of those red flags? Come on! Those numerous red flags should have sent you running for the hills but you still married her? She's not even gf material. There is no question about it; you had on multiple blinders. 

You chose to marry the worst of the worst, and now that you're getting a divorce, you've developed an aversion to marriage? Nah, the issue is not marriage itself; the issue is you being a doormat, a Mr. Nice Guy. You have to respect yourself before women will respect you. You have to call them out on their BS and don't let them get away with it. You have to know who you are and develop a strong sense of self-worth.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> No worries about me.
> 
> Please read up on Al Anon's concept of "detaching with love". You can feel for a person's pain without your own emotions being hurt. If you want to explore the deeper recesses of the same concept, read de Mello's "Awareness".
> 
> ...


I found those two readings online. Ironically, I had gut feelings go off after marriage left and right. Felt it was my job to suck it up and work on the marriage. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Vega said:


> You can't.
> 
> For some, relationships shouldn't require THAT much 'work'. Communication shouldn't go much deeper than talking about "what's for dinner?"
> 
> ...


Agreed. I assumed that marriages go up and down in phases. I just naively thought this was normal stages of marriage.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I've posted a lot on this. However, I really do not know. She would always say, we have issues and we're not getting along. Yet, she'd never elaborate. Went to a few therapists, she didn't like the first three. Third one gave up and the fourth one she refused to allow me to go with her. Asked her to communicate with me, she refused. Asked her to meet with me, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with her Mom, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with the pastor, she refused. Asked her to read various books with me, she refused. Asked for her to go with me to a couples retreat, she and her parents laughed at me. Asked for a family intervention, she says we don't do that.
> 
> What else am I supposed to do?


Sorry I haven't read you other threads but it seems like you and your wife are young and she was not mature enough for marriage. Unfortunately some girls only see the wedding day with all its pomp and ceremony and are not ready for the actual marriage. I think you have done all you can, tell her that you cannot make a marriage work is she refuses to communicate or meet you half way. Time for you to move on I'm afraid.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> OP,
> 
> I just have to ask: did you have a strong father figure growing up, someone who showed you how to treat women right without letting them walk all over you?
> 
> ...


Very stong father figure. Actually, during our dating years, she was very warm and caring. This changed within months after getting married. I'm a big guy, she's barely 5'. What am I supposed to do, call the cops and say arrest my wife because she hit me a few times on my arms because she was looking for her candy? I should had left after that and the cussing. It only happened once, the hitting. The cussing was on and off. I had enough of the behavior a few months ago and told her to move out. Do I have a few nice guy treats, yes, and I am working on them. Do I have a high self respect for myself? Yes. Built and sold several of my businesses in the past few years, have respect in the business community and even got to hang with some celebs from time to time. Ironically, they weren't crazy about my wife. Actually, no one I introduced her to really cared for her that much; come to think of it. I guess, I feel regardless of my business success, with women, I feel at times I am not good enough. It was prob. one of the reasons why I tried to hang on too hard to this marriage. In all reality, the marriage was DOA for a while. Heck, she wouldn't even try. I should had cut the cord a long time ago. It just took me time, a lot of time, when enough was enough. Wasted years here.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

aine said:


> Sorry I haven't read you other threads but it seems like you and your wife are young and she was not mature enough for marriage. Unfortunately some girls only see the wedding day with all its pomp and ceremony and are not ready for the actual marriage. I think you have done all you can, tell her that you cannot make a marriage work is she refuses to communicate or meet you half way. Time for you to move on I'm afraid.


Late 30s, not young. Been on my own since I was 18, so I guess I just didn't mind that I was carrying and doing everything. Ironically, she said she always did the best she could. I would say, what did you do? Silence. Then she helps for a few days and goes back to the original plan of doing nothing. Divorce should be final in 30 - 60 days. So many issues. Laziness, entitlement, communication, trust, respect, intimacy, love. It was never like this before marriage. Never. It was all an act. I feel used and ashamed.


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

There are plenty of quality women out there. You just have to take a step back and really survey the situation without rose colored glasses on. See the person behind the pretty face and compare their words to their actions. Get feedback from your trusted friends and family members. Most people are on their best behavior during the courting stage but even then, your STBXW showed many red flags. I'm sorry you wasted a perfectly good marriage on her. She's still very immature and irresponsible. I see more divorces in her future.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> There are plenty of quality women out there. You just have to take a step back and really survey the situation without rose colored glasses on. See the person behind the pretty face and compare their words to their actions. Get feedback from your trusted friends and family members. Most people are on their best behavior during the courting stage but even then, your STBXW showed many red flags. I'm sorry you wasted a perfectly good marriage on her. She's still very immature and irresponsible. I see more divorces in her future.


Completely agree on the STBXW. I tend not to make the same mistake twice. I actually do learn from my mistakes. I will be much more vigilant. You should had seen her when she moved her stuff out of my place. In front of the cops and the movers she had several tantrums like a young child. Cussing all over the place to everyone. Her parents came around and said whats going on. She wouldn't believe their daughter was the way we all explained it. Four people said the same thing. Their response, no, not our daughter. &#55357;&#56883; Banging things around. Taking things becuase she wanted them, then return them, attempting to start an argument. I said take what you want, I wouldn't argue, so that made her more enraged. Seriously, I never seen this side of her before. It was surreal. I can say, if we had kids, I would had prob. killled myself.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sounds like she might have some sort of personality disorder?


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

aine said:


> Sounds like she might have some sort of personality disorder?


I was thinking the same thing while reading his last post! 

But...

It's kind of tough to hide a personality disorder. The disorder would have reared its ugly head before the marriage, especially if it's something that's undiagnosed and untreated.

The OP said that she wasn't like this BEFORE they married. Then again, the OP was wearing his rose-colored glasses so he may have glossed over some of the signs.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sounds to me like she might be having an affair or have a mental illness. I know my X changed into an alien person I had never seen before when her affair started


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Vega said:


> I was thinking the same thing while reading his last post!
> 
> But...
> 
> ...


A lot of people completely overlook major issues because the other person is really hot, or because they don't want to be alone. Others mistake emotional instability and the attendant high-drama behaviors for excitement, a fiery and passionate nature, or a fun and quirky personality. There are also plenty of folks who are actually drawn to drama and conflict due to their own issues. Most of them will say they aren't, but then they keep picking partners who belie their protests of wanting a "nice, normal" mate.

I think the OP could benefit greatly from some professional help with fixing his woman-picker.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Rowan said:


> A lot of people completely overlook major issues because the other person is really hot, or because they don't want to be alone. Others mistake emotional instability and the attendant high-drama behaviors for excitement, a fiery and passionate nature, or a fun and quirky personality. There are also plenty of folks who are actually drawn to drama and conflict due to their own issues. Most of them will say they aren't, but then they keep picking partners who belie their protests of wanting a "nice, normal" mate.
> 
> I think the OP could benefit greatly from some professional help with fixing his woman-picker.


Spot on, Rowan! :smile2:

I suffered from the same dilemma as the OP. When I look back on my significant relationships, I can NOW clearly see what I missed. The red flags were there all along, but I was too naïve/ignorant (a.k.a. "in love"--where's the 'gag'/vomit icon when I need it?!) when they presented themselves. I was also very forgiving, and back then, I believed that if I forgave someone, I HAD to resume the relationship. 

Maybe it's just a question of us gaining _wisdom_...?


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Did you live together before getting married? I know that some people won't do that, but it may help you determine your compatibility. It's a moot point now, but for the future in case you find another lady friend.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> Sounds to me like she might be having an affair or have a mental illness. I know my X changed into an alien person I had never seen before when her affair started


I know, when we were together, no chance of an affair. Verified this with VARs and GPS. Now that we're legally separated, she may have started to test the waters, not sure. I recall overhearing that due to her two failed marriages, she doesn't know how she'd date or get married again. She was never big into sex, even during dating. I was lucky for once a week during dating. After marriage, once or twice a month til zero. I do not think sex is important to her. Wish this was shared earlier as well.

Other's have suggested that she may have a mental illness. I know when I spoke to her therapist months ago, the third one she wouldn't me go with her to, my wife needs a lot of help getting through her personal issues. So, that's that. Would had been nice to know this at the time and not have to be Inspector Gadget to seek the truth. I am fine at supporting my wife in her time of need, but she didn't share anything. This was not a partnership, it was a prison sentence with a double standard.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Rowan said:


> A lot of people completely overlook major issues because the other person is really hot, or because they don't want to be alone. Others mistake emotional instability and the attendant high-drama behaviors for excitement, a fiery and passionate nature, or a fun and quirky personality. There are also plenty of folks who are actually drawn to drama and conflict due to their own issues. Most of them will say they aren't, but then they keep picking partners who belie their protests of wanting a "nice, normal" mate.
> 
> I think the OP could benefit greatly from some professional help with fixing his woman-picker.


Agreed on the rose colored glasses and better woman picker. I've seen a therapist during the last few months. No one is perfect.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Vega said:


> Spot on, Rowan! :smile2:
> 
> I suffered from the same dilemma as the OP. When I look back on my significant relationships, I can NOW clearly see what I missed. The red flags were there all along, but I was too naïve/ignorant (a.k.a. "in love"--where's the 'gag'/vomit icon when I need it?!) when they presented themselves. I was also very forgiving, and back then, I believed that if I forgave someone, I HAD to resume the relationship.
> 
> Maybe it's just a question of us gaining _wisdom_...?


We all grow from experience. I am not exception. I know I learned a lot in terms of P-A behavior and what to look out for from my wife. I thank her for that. As before, I never knew of it first hand in a relationship. I do really wish her the best and hope she gets the help she needs. Overall, she's not a bad person, just was bad to and for me.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Did you live together before getting married? I know that some people won't do that, but it may help you determine your compatibility. It's a moot point now, but for the future in case you find another lady friend.


I asked her to move in or stay over for over a year, she moved in a month before the wedding. I also asked for pre-marital counseling multiple times, she said no, she refused. I should had stuck to my guns. I am not a person who likes to give ultimatums, but perhaps this whole ordeal could had been avoided for the both of us.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I am going through a divorce with my wife of about 3 years. It seemed like right after the marriage, she changed into a cold person who just cared about herself. Me and the marriage were secondary. We dated for 2 years before marriage. How does one show as caring and loving, and then switch? I am not rich or have status, so she wasn't a gold digger or status junky. I would just like to know if this is something I need to be looking out for moving forward. If I do, what are some of the signs.
> 
> I am just so confused by her actions and motives. She wanted to work on the marriage, yet put nothing in, communicate, read books, work on programs together.
> 
> My mind is racing looking for the cause. I just do not understand. The woman makes things up in her mind and actually believes them. This is an educated smart woman. I really have no idea what the heck is going on here.


There are two ways of understanding how people act. One is that their actions show their personalities, another is that it reflects their outlook.

Personalities are fixed. In this model, a decent person will act decently. If they change with a change of circumstance, it shows that they were disguising their true self and that you should and could have seen through their disguise.

The outlook version contradicts this. This says we are all the same, basically want to be happy and do what we do to best achieve that. However, our outlook is malleable, affected by our biology (including hormones), experiences and cultural expectations. She might have felt one way, but as a married woman, her expectations and outlook on what mattered changed.

Generally, people are in similar circumstances and have fairly rigid ideas about their own identity and that of those around them. But sometimes a change of circumstances dramatically alters the outlook and marriage does this for some people.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Almost-Done said:


> I will list a few. Didn't tell me she was divorced for a while. Hit and kicked me a few times hard (black and blue). Refused to allow me to go with her friends and co-worker events. Cussing at me left and right.


Well no kids so you're lucky and dodged a bullet. 

She sounds like a real prize.

She was abusive and didn't want to be in public with you with friends or co workers. YIKES !!


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> There are two ways of understanding how people act. One is that their actions show their personalities, another is that it reflects their outlook.
> 
> Personalities are fixed. In this model, a decent person will act decently. If they change with a change of circumstance, it shows that they were disguising their true self and that you should and could have seen through their disguise.
> 
> ...


I think, once reality kicked in, she got scared. She would actually have to work on the relationship. I do not understand to this day how she thought we'd be okay with not talking. Let me rephrase, I would talk, she would listen. I asked her to tell me her feelings, you could hear crickets. Then her parents would get invloved, me vs three. I swear, I've never experienced this in my adult life where two parents are making decisions for an able bodied person.

She really turned into a different distant person who always put herself first. She had the family home, loving husband and the potential for children. Then, she started to turn. Very upsetting.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

```

```



barbados said:


> Well no kids so you're lucky and dodged a bullet.
> 
> She sounds like a real prize.
> 
> She was abusive and didn't want to be in public with you with friends or co workers. YIKES !!


I know it's not an excuse, but it only happened once; the arm punching. The contonous cussing was a real issue. I've never experienced that from a gf. So, I was shocked to hear it from my wife. There were two weddings that she replied no to me for going with her w/o even asking me. Her response, I didn't think you would want to go. :|

Just pissed at myself I wated all this time and now have to pay for a divorce. The damn legal fees are almost as much as the wedding itself. :crying:


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I think, once reality kicked in, she got scared. She would actually have to work on the relationship. I do not understand to this day how she thought we'd be okay with not talking. Let me rephrase, I would talk, she would listen. I asked her to tell me her feelings, you could hear crickets. Then her parents would get invloved, me vs three. I swear, I've never experienced this in my adult life where two parents are making decisions for an able bodied person.
> 
> She really turned into a different distant person who always put herself first. She had the family home, loving husband and the potential for children. Then, she started to turn. Very upsetting.


It is strange and it does happen.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I've posted a lot on this. However, I really do not know. She would always say, we have issues and we're not getting along. Yet, she'd never elaborate. Went to a few therapists, she didn't like the first three. Third one gave up and the fourth one she refused to allow me to go with her. Asked her to communicate with me, she refused. Asked her to meet with me, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with her Mom, she refused. Asked her to talk to me with the pastor, she refused. Asked her to read various books with me, she refused. Asked for her to go with me to a couples retreat, she and her parents laughed at me. Asked for a family intervention, she says we don't do that.
> 
> What else am I supposed to do?


Nothing. Move on and enjoy life.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Almost-Done said:


> What are some red flags to look for and what is the best way to sharpen my people picker?


Never date a woman unless you're a friend first. Meaning, spend all your time doing things - join clubs, join a sports team, take classes at junior college or leisure learning courses, attend meetup events...basically look for opportunities to be part of groups, where you see the same people every week or every month, and get to know the women. Become friends. Look for good qualities, watch out for bad ones, and start weeding them out. The same way you'd decide not to be friends with guys for certain reasons, do the same for the women. 

Above all, do NOT choose dates based on their looks.

True story: I raised my DD25 by saying, basically, avoid the good looking guys - they'll have always had things handed to them, they didn't have to work hard for stuff cos people wanted to be around them because of their looks, while just ok looking guys will have lost out on things and probably have a better outlook, are less snooty, are more empathetic and will be better lovers. She tried the good looking guys, and found out most were jerks. When she met her fiance (blind date) and I met him, I was thinking, wow, I expected her to fall for a better looking guy, lol. But he's turned out to be a real gem, just an awesome guy.

But I know guys are different, I know guys choose dates mainly based on the girl's looks. I get it. But you're here asking, so I'll tell you. If you let a girl's looks lead you by the nose, you have more of a chance to to make a mistake.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> Nothing. Move on and enjoy life.


Certainly in the process of doing so. I just feel very betrayed by her actions. That is one of the things I am wrestling with. As someone asked me a few days ago, if she came reached out and said let's talk, I'd not even respond.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

turnera said:


> Never date a woman unless you're a friend first. Meaning, spend all your time doing things - join clubs, join a sports team, take classes at junior college or leisure learning courses, attend meetup events...basically look for opportunities to be part of groups, where you see the same people every week or every month, and get to know the women. Become friends. Look for good qualities, watch out for bad ones, and start weeding them out. The same way you'd decide not to be friends with guys for certain reasons, do the same for the women.
> 
> Above all, do NOT choose dates based on their looks.
> 
> ...


No doubt. I've dated the attractive ones, and way too much maintenance. My wife was attractive, that's no question (she felt she wasn't though), but she wasn't drop dead gorgeous. While being attracted to the woman is high on the list, that isn't the only thing. Her personality, the way she handles herself, relationship with her family and friends, etc. I can see now, looking back, there were red flags that I overlooked. 

I've tried the Meetups in the area, actually, the woman before my wife I met on Meetup. However, after a few days, she told me she was on bi-polar medicine. I've seen her lose it a few times, too much for me to handle. Sometimes, she'd forget to even take the meds. It was a disaster. Most of the Meetups I've seen have man awkward people, and a lot of men. Average or better looking women join once, then leave because the guys all hover and gawk at her. It's like high school all over again. I joined a dating site for a bit. Things have changed. It seems to be a hookup only culture now, not relationships. Pulled my account down. Just not ready nor am I looking for hookups. Too worried about STDs, and besides, it's not the way I roll.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Almostdone,

I wonder if your (now ex) wife, didn't respect you because you only made half as much money as her??

I personally think that that would be lame of her; but apparently a lot of women do feel like this. They say it's ok, but then it starts to affect their attraction and respect.

You sound like your career is going well, and that you shouldered all the bills in the marriage; very selfish of her, btw,

But, somehow, she didn't admire you enough, or something like that.

I know it's supposed to be equal rights and all, but some people only want the parts of equal rights that benefit them.

Sorry, sounds like you're better off without her.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Almostdone,
> 
> I wonder if your (now ex) wife, didn't respect you because you only made half as much money as her??
> 
> ...


Still my wife. No judge has signed off on the divorce yet. It is certainly possible. You're not the first person who's suggested that. She wasn't a gold digger and it seemed like she generally cared for me up until a year or so ago. I have a masters in my field, so it is not like my career isn't in demand, but she just earns more. Nothing I really can do about that. I know, after marriage, I was shouldering the main bills with little help from her. I thought that was weird, and then if I'd ask, she'd take her sweet time, if at all to help. Or, she'd say ohh, does hubby need some money to pay bills in a really antagonizing tone. It wasn't worth the effort or humiliation. Bills were fine and I had excess before marriage. After marriage they rose nearly 30 or so percent. Also, since she makes a high salary, our tax bracket went up. Guess who was making the quarterly payments? Me. Not a dime from her. She aleays said she didn't have it. It would had been easier if we had a joint checking account, but she said her first husband drained it, so she didn't want one. Ironically, it was her suggestion to get one right after marriage. She's very selfish it seems ith her and her parents' money, but when it was mine, not so much. Very weird. All in all, it wasn't a true partnership. The more I tried, the farther we became. I really do not think she thought I'd file for divorce. I really feel she thinks all I could get was her. 

The way the marriage broke down just doesn't make any sense. A woman who tells her spouse I will be by your side til the day I die, and then when things get tough not agree to work on the marriage, just doesn't make sense. Something is a miss. I know she's depressed, but she really wasn't getting help. I still feel, if she would had worked with me we could had repaired our issues. I fight for what I want in life. I thought she did as well. Guess I was wrong.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another big one: watch how they treat servants, waiters, housekeepers,landscapers, cleaners,strangers.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

turnera said:


> Never date a woman unless you're a friend first. Meaning, spend all your time doing things - join clubs, join a sports team, take classes at junior college or leisure learning courses, attend meetup events...basically look for opportunities to be part of groups, where you see the same people every week or every month, and get to know the women. Become friends. Look for good qualities, watch out for bad ones, and start weeding them out. The same way you'd decide not to be friends with guys for certain reasons, do the same for the women.


Still doesn't help. Best deal is not to marry them


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

turnera said:


> Another big one: watch how they treat servants, waiters, housekeepers,landscapers, cleaners,strangers.


Oh my ex treated all third parties wonderfully. They were "her public". It turned out it was only her family she treated terribly, so also consider how she was raised - in my case it should have been warning bells, as she didn't get on with her Mum and spent most of her time around her friends place as part of their family....and continued to do so after we got together and had kids.
When we moved way out of town she'd hole up in the house and do almost nothing (play video games, play with her very baby daughter), we move back to original town, daughter and new son put into clubs and she joins up with the leaders, spends no time outside the clubs stuff with kids or me or anyone but her old friend (when her friend needs something). I figure because she didn't have her own personal family, she never had a clue about how to build that experience with me or our kids. Sadly I wasn't home due to effort of paying for mortgage and food etc. (when we split she would say things like "I never asked you to pay the mortgage" even though she'd refuse to get more than a minor part time job ).
But she wonderful to strangers and the higher ups in her club.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> . . . .after marriage, I was shouldering the main bills* with little help from her.* I thought that was weird, and then if I'd ask, she'd take her sweet time, if at all to help. Or, *she'd say ohh, does hubby need some money to pay bills in a really antagonizing tone*. It wasn't worth the effort or humiliation. Bills were fine and I had excess before marriage. After marriage they rose nearly 30 or so percent. Also, since she makes a high salary, our tax bracket went up. *Guess who was making the quarterly payments? Me. Not a dime from her.* She aleays said she didn't have it. It would had been easier if we had a joint checking account, but she said her first husband drained it, so she didn't want one. Ironically, it was her suggestion to get one right after marriage. * She's very selfish it seems ith her and her parents' money, but when it was mine, not so much. * Very weird.



^^^^All this is totally weird and wrong. It was greedy and irresponsible of her to behave this way.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

turnera said:


> Another big one: watch how they treat servants, waiters, housekeepers,landscapers, cleaners,strangers.


Yep. Mixed. Very fake like her parents. Smiles and joy in front of them, sometimes different when they are not in front of them. Phony.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> ^^^^All this is totally weird and wrong. It was greedy and irresponsible of her to behave this way.


I guess, it was always her and her parents on one end, and I was always the odd man out. I can understand a close relationship (to a point), but I think it was a bit extreme. She'd always put them ahead of me and us. I could remember a few months back, I was excruciating pain around my appendix. She said, maybe you should go to the hospital. If you need me, I'll be at my parents. I didn't know what was more painful, the appendix pain or what she said to me. To be honest, I do not even know if she knows what she says half the time. 

Again, this was not the woman I married. I do not know what this is. Yet, I keep blaming myself for the failure. As dumb as it sounds, I felt bad and guilty serving her with divorce papers.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> What are some red flags to look for and what is the best way to sharpen my people picker?


My biggie is EMPATHY.

True empathy requires all the other desirable traits including the abilities to be selfless, self confident, caring, giving and loving. 

Empathetic people are also usually good listeners and capable of a rational discussion/argument with interest in a mutually beneficial result.

Most importantly for you, they are generally capable of creating and maintaining a true emotional connection with their partner.

It sounds like all of these were lacking in your marriage.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> Yep. Mixed. Very fake like her parents. Smiles and joy in front of them, sometimes different when they are not in front of them. Phony.


Yeah, my EXW was like this.

Just wait to see the crap she tells people when you D. You will be the worst husband on earth. Get in first with any friends you value as it took a long time for the people around me to see who the real devil was.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> My biggie is EMPATHY.
> 
> True empathy requires all the other desirable traits including the abilities to be selfless, self confident, caring, giving and loving.
> 
> ...


She has empathy at first, but no action. Whereas, I would not talk about doing something and just do it. Example, she has a sick friend with a rare disease. She was in the hospital and I told her to go see her. I would also go with her. She said, I do not have time or patience to deal with her right now. I just thought that was pretty cold. Although, for her family, even extended family, she'd do anything. Instead of going to Church with me to meet with a pastor to help with our marriage, she went to see her cousin's religious ceremony. She see's her cousin once a year. You may say, well, why did you set it up the same day? Well, she told me two days prior. I guess, I was never going to be asked to attend. Can't win.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> Yeah, my EXW was like this.
> 
> Just wait to see the crap she tells people when you D. You will be the worst husband on earth. Get in first with any friends you value as it took a long time for the people around me to see who the real devil was.


I've already heard most of it. We had the same friends, they're on her side (mostly because the guys are afraid of their wives). I am trying to get new friends, but it's hard in your late 30's. She's told people I have a neurological disorder and I am mental. I have high blood pressure, and believe it or not, this has been going down to normal levels and the doc says I may be able to get off the blood pressure medicine. 

We live in different parts city now and I try to avoid the locations where I know she would be. I am just surprised at how this all played out.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> She has empathy at first, but no action. Whereas, I would not talk about doing something and just do it. Example, she has a sick friend with a rare disease. She was in the hospital and I told her to go see her. I would also go with her. She said, I do not have time or patience to deal with her right now. I just thought that was pretty cold. Although, for her family, even extended family, she'd do anything. Instead of going to Church with me to meet with a pastor to help with our marriage, she went to see her cousin's religious ceremony. She see's her cousin once a year. You may say, well, why did you set it up the same day? Well, she told me two days prior. I guess, I was never going to be asked to attend. Can't win.


NO, NO, NO. You are confusing empathy with APPROVAL SEEKING. The staple feed of kibble that insecure people require to feel good about themselves and function.

Stop and think about everything she does. It is for praise and approval. It is completely selfish.

The reason she seeks approval from people that don't know her well is for precisely that reason. They can't see through her bullsh*it and give her the approval she needs to feel good about herself.

It's all pretty simple. I used to find it baffling and I even applauded my EXW for her supposedly selfless actions (which I call kibble squared). lol


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> She has empathy at first, but no action. Whereas, I would not talk about doing something and just do it. Example, she has a sick friend with a rare disease. She was in the hospital and I told her to go see her. I would also go with her. She said, I do not have time or patience to deal with her right now. I just thought that was pretty cold. Although, for her family, even extended family, she'd do anything. Instead of going to Church with me to meet with a pastor to help with our marriage, she went to see her cousin's religious ceremony. She see's her cousin once a year. You may say, well, why did you set it up the same day? Well, she told me two days prior. I guess, I was never going to be asked to attend. Can't win.


Try to realise that mostly everything that has happened, not because she was strong, but because she is insecure. Thinks will start to make sense.

The brutal speed of it all, the coldness of it, her inability to communicate with you, etc etc etc. 

Thinking this way will help you rationalise it and help you accept you aren't to blame here.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I could remember a few months back, I was excruciating pain around my appendix. She said, maybe you should go to the hospital. If you need me, I'll be at my parents. I didn't know what was more painful, the appendix pain or what she said to me.



Untreated appendicitis can lead to death - RightDiagnosis.com


Well, the silver lining in that cloud, is that you know that this was not a person that you would have wanted to remain married to. Your health, even life, is not important to her.

In the situation you describe, the only possible response of a loving spouse would be to drive you to the ER as quickly as possible, stay with you the entire time, and be caring and supportive.

So it's a no brainer. Divorce was the right thing to do.

And I hope you had the appropriate medical treatment, and are doing fine now.:|


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> NO, NO, NO. You are confusing empathy with APPROVAL SEEKING. The staple feed of kibble that insecure people require to feel good about themselves and function.
> 
> Stop and think about everything she does. It is for praise and approval. It is completely selfish.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. She never feels feels good about herself; at least since she turned 40 (she'll be 42 next month). Prior to turning 40, she was different. Though, it seems she has two sides (at least). She would act one way to them (or me) at first, and then when they leave, another side appears. Interestingly enough, this switch a roo (that's what I call it) didn't surface until after I put a ring on it. I then ask myself, was it all a lie? Why? What did she have to gain? I guess, my mind just wishes to know why.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> Try to realise that mostly everything that has happened, not because she was strong, but because she is insecure. Thinks will start to make sense.
> 
> The brutal speed of it all, the coldness of it, her inability to communicate with you, etc etc etc.
> 
> Thinking this way will help you rationalise it and help you accept you aren't to blame here.


Yes, I can concur. She's become incredibly insecure and unsure of herself. This also changed from prior to marriage. It was just so quick. The change really happened out of no where and just got progressively worse. I once said tomher why are you acting and treating me this way. Cause I can. Domyou treat you colleagues at work like this as well? She said no, if I did, I'd get fired. I just was stunned at the response. :frown2:


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> You make a good point. She never feels feels good about herself; at least since she turned 40 (she'll be 42 next month). Prior to turning 40, she was different. Though, it seems she has two sides (at least). She would act one way to them (or me) at first, and then when they leave, another side appears. Interestingly enough, this switch a roo (that's what I call it) didn't surface until after I put a ring on it. I then ask myself, was it all a lie? Why? What did she have to gain? I guess, my mind just wishes to know why.


Because she was seeking YOUR approval before you put a ring on it.

After that, you gave it to her in spades so she no longer had any need to seek it from you.

Subconsciously, her ego lost interest in you from there onwards.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> Yes, I can concur. She's become incredibly insecure and unsure of herself. This also changed from prior to marriage. It was just so quick. The change really happened out of no where and just got progressively worse. I once said tomher why are you acting and treating me this way. Cause I can. Domyou treat you colleagues at work like this as well? She said no, if I did, I'd get fired. I just was stunned at the response. :frown2:


Congrats. You sir are already 1-2 years ahead of where most people are in accepting what has happened. Keep going.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Untreated appendicitis can lead to death - RightDiagnosis.com
> 
> 
> Well, the silver lining in that cloud, is that you know that this was not a person that you would have wanted to remain married to. Your health, even life, is not important to her.
> ...


I'm much better now. Thank you for asking. I was able to drive myself to the ER. Yes, when she said that, The pain felt doublely bad. Never heard of something like that come from a loved one. Interestly enough, back when we were dating I has some kidny stones, and I told her via text and it seemed like she cared. She was going to come to the ER and spend the time with me. Again, I know I sould like a broken record, but what th fvck happened? It just doesn't make any sense. It felt like I am in an skit with Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde.

Divorce was my only option. Since she declined everything to work on us, living with her was miserable. My blood pressure with her was through the roof; and I am in good shape physically. The failure of the marriage weighs heavy on me. Might take me some time to get over it.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> Because she was seeking YOUR approval before you put a ring on it.
> 
> After that, you gave it to her in spades so she no longer had any need to seek it from you.
> 
> Subconsciously, her ego lost interest in you from there onwards.


I think you may have something there. Bfore she left, she said she didn't want to be divorced again. However, she didn't say anything about wanting to be married to me or anything about love. She's just worried about being alone. I think, somewhere in her she knows she's difficult. Mshe may have her friends and family fooled, but she has to know the truth inside.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I think you may have something there. Bfore she left, she said she didn't want to be divorced again. However, she didn't say anything about wanting to be married to me or anything about love. She's just worried about being alone. I think, somewhere in her she knows she's difficult. Mshe may have her friends and family fooled, but she has to know the truth inside.


Once again, how this affects HER is her only concern.

What a selfish woman. You are far better off without her ad you will realise just how much better eventually.

I had the same in my first wife and I'm now married to the most selfless woman I've ever met. My life is so different now. I'm much less anxious in life generally and I don't take anything for granted anymore. 

With pain comes learning.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> Once again, how this affects HER is her only concern.
> 
> What a selfish woman. You are far better off without her ad you will realise just how much better eventually.
> 
> ...


Agree. She's very self-absorbed right now. Well, it's been like that since the end of 2014. I guess, my problem solving instinct just is curious on why her change. Perhaps, this is the real woman? Perhaps, midlife crisis. Who knows. It seems, like anything I did I would get the opposite reaction. I did want she wanted, pissed off. I backed away, pissed off. There would be no rhyme or reason. 

I guess you know what I am dealing with, as you went through it yourself. I am sure, in time, I will get past this too. There are some women interested in me, but I am right now in the mindset of once bitten, twice shy. Plus, the divorce is still going on. I would had hoped she'd sign off so we can give it to a Judge already. 

Thank you Poida for your insight.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> Agree. She's very self-absorbed right now. Well, it's been like that since the end of 2014. I guess, my problem solving instinct just is curious on why her change. Perhaps, this is the real woman? Perhaps, midlife crisis. Who knows. It seems, like anything I did I would get the opposite reaction. I did want she wanted, pissed off. I backed away, pissed off. There would be no rhyme or reason.
> 
> I guess you know what I am dealing with, as you went through it yourself. I am sure, in time, I will get past this too. There are some women interested in me, but I am right now in the mindset of once bitten, twice shy. Plus, the divorce is still going on. I would had hoped she'd sign off so we can give it to a Judge already.
> 
> Thank you Poida for your insight.


I think you will realise she has been the same all along. Insecurity and selfishness drove all of these things, good and bad.


----------



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

poida said:


> I think you will realise she has been the same all along. Insecurity and selfishness drove all of these things, good and bad.


My brain understands it, but my heart just cannot believe it. I am slowly accepting it though.

Take for example a child. She wanted three, I said let's try for one, and take it day by day. She seemed okay with it.

Initially, she was gung-ho for the family. We stopped using condoms, she never used birth control, but she'd only have intercourse around her ovulation. I even added the baby center app to my phone to track it and zero in. I told her we need to try more, she said, you just want to get laid or I will try. Never happened. She got continuously frustrated and upset she could not conceive. In addition, she wouldn't let me go to any of her OB appointments, which I found odd. Then, she said we can have sex, I would say be intimate or make love, but she would normally say sex, but I would have to use a condom.

Isn't that a bit weird that a woman, who she claims all her life wanted children, is doing the opposite, is limiting sex and telling me to sometimes use a condom? Then to all others, telling them he doesn't want kids and I ruined her life's dream. So confused by her actions. Maybe someone can chime in on her thinking, as we all know there was no rationale. Yet, I know, this was a blessing in disguise. Children through a divorce would be even worse.

Speaking about divorce, my lawyer called me yesterday and told me she finally got a lawyer and she's agreeing to an unconditional divorce. The papers are being drawn now and I will sign them next week. It looks like she'll do the same.


----------

