# It seems I'm erecting my wall



## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

I've come to the conclusion that I need to detach from my husband. I need to eradicate his ability to hurt me. I don't know what else to do.

For several years I have lived feeling alone in my marriage without much emotional support from my H. Of course with this loss of connection for me, I no longer had the desire to be intimate with him as often as his need required. And so we lived like this for quite some time. Conflict arose constantly as, obviously, neither of us could be truly happy under these circumstances. I got to the point that I became partially numb and so I was somehow able to cope for quite a few years.

But then I got to the point emotionally that some women often find themselves in when they would start to allow themselves the feeling of another man giving them what they so desperately need. I think that when I started to entertain the idea, it scared me and so instead of going down that road, I threw myself into trying to make my marriage work. In doing so, I had to open myself up to rejection and pain again.

At this point, I so much want to go back to feeling numb.

I guess my H is no longer capable of giving me what I need. The last time I felt truly loved and supported by him was very early on in our relationship. Nine years is a long time to endure an unmet need for emotional connection. I told him if he had gone nine years with absolutely no sex, I doubt he would be here right now, or have remained faithful anyway. At least his needs were being met to some degree, if only some of the time.


Alot of advice on this forum is, you can't control your spouse. If you want to see some changes on their part then change yourself first. Somebody has to step up. This may be very beneficial advice for some, but it didn't work for me. It's safe to say his desire to please me just isn't there anymore.

Staying is painful and leaving is painful.
I think for now I will just strive for numb.

Thanks for listening.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm so sorry. I haven't been married long, but I've felt like this before. 

You sound like a walk away wife. Do you think if you left he'd see the error of his ways?


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

themrs said:


> I'm so sorry. I haven't been married long, but I've felt like this before.
> 
> You sound like a walk away wife. Do you think if you left he'd see the error of his ways?


I doubt it. I've all but given up on him seeing the error of his ways.

If I don't withdraw from him I'll lose myself. I can't stand another day of begging to be loved. Why should I torture myself in an attempt to get even a crumb from him when I could find someone who would be willing to offer me much more than that without the struggle.

It's not that freaking hard to take the woman that you love in your arms when she's hurting and TALK to her, encourage her to tell you how she feels and want to be there for her.

Instead I get, 'I wish I had some words for you'.




Not nearly as bad as I do.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

BK, you are preaching to the choir. I remember once I was crying about our fianancial situation and my husband straight up walked out of the room! At least your husband admits he can't give you what he doesn't have.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Wow I could have written this myself just changed a few minor details.
I haven't had an emotional connection with my husband in so long I forget how it feels. I have decided that you can't get out of someone what isn't in them to give. When I need emotional support or encouragement I go to my sisters or gfs. 

Sex is good with him, but that is what it is-sex. An act of physical pleasure, nothing more. It is possible to have sex with a man you feel no emotional attachment to.

I too reach out always thinking just maybe this time he will get it and return the emotions. Nope, then I feel dumb.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

themrs said:


> BK, you are preaching to the choir. I remember once I was crying about our fianancial situation and my husband straight up walked out of the room! At least your husband admits he can't give you what he doesn't have.


I know, right. But then he tells me he does have it, that I need to be patient, that it's there, that he IS capable of being there for me. It's all a bunch of crap if you ask me and I'm tired of listening to it. We've read books, I've shown him articles, we've had looong talks on the subject. Yet when it comes time to actually play out what he's learned, it's as if he never heard any of it!

I'm convinced the man has no friggin emotions. I feel like I'm married to a freaking robot.

In the times where he wasn't getting enough sex, he turned to porn but yet when I turn to someone else for emotional support, all of a sudden he expresses half-a$$ed interest. Screw that.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

ButterflyKisses said:


> Instead I get, 'I wish I had some words for you'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My husband and yours must have attended the same emotional detachment classes together. I swear that is what mine says while keeping his distance from me.

I really believe there is something wrong with my h not sure what. I have often wondered if he had been abused as a child. Of course he would never tell me.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

BK - I once spent a week waiting for my husband to a) initiate a conversation with me that didn't include "what's for dinner" and b) touch me in a nonsexual way. I did the experiment for a whole week and neither one of those things happened. As a matter of fact, once he walked past me in the hallway and avoided even brushing up against me! 

So I decided to do better by myself. I stopped waiting for him to "get it" and decided to live my life. I started eating better and working out (that helped with the depression I felt), I went shopping for better clothes, and reconnected with old friends. I had sex with him when I wanted too, but not out of obligation. I didn't initiate any converstations with him and when I needed to talk I just went to my girlfriends and mom. 

At first I think he was relieved I was not nagging him. Then after a while he got lonely and started showing me more attention. So that is my advice to you. Just be the best you that you can be. Start treating yourself the way you want him to treat you.


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## Gem1967 (Sep 8, 2010)

BK, you sound like you are writing my story with few additions here and there. H doesn't have patience to listen and he complains I don't talk to him, he is very opiniated. Even before I start the conversation he tries to correct me, so what I can say and share with him. Some times I just need a person to listen to me without being judgemental. When I talk to my b/s he gets upset blaming that I don't tell him any. Now in a way I am even scared to talk to him, we never had a discussion moment, its always him, not sure how to handle these kind of people.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

ButterflyKisses said:


> I doubt it. I've all but given up on him seeing the error of his ways.
> 
> If I don't withdraw from him I'll lose myself. I can't stand another day of begging to be loved. Why should I torture myself in an attempt to get even a crumb from him when I could find someone who would be willing to offer me much more than that without the struggle.
> 
> ...


Please don't accept numbness as an option. I sincerely mean this to be helpful when I say that your description makes it sound like you might approach this with him as a request, or your problem, instead of a required part of the covenant of your marriage. We guys can be pretty stupid at times. I studied logic and mathematical modeling as part of my career, which annoys my wife to no end.

Point is, some guys shy away from emotion-speak, but can't shy away from logic. 

If you took the time to remind yourself of all of the positive things you bring to the marriage, you'd see that he should at least be willing to work on this from the position of 'his problem' and not 'your problem'.

If you were to discuss the behaviors (or lack thereof) that support a healthy marriage, do you think he would agree that he should be attempting to meet these needs? Especially if you show a willingness to hold yourself to the same expectations.

If not, and you came to the point that you let him know that inaction was not an option, would the threat make him reconsider?

What I'm saying is (1) he should see this as his problem, not yours, (2) accept that there are required behaviors in a healthy marriage (3) agree that he is not fulfilling these at a minimum level, then (4) commit to a plan.

I'm sure this sounds naive to some, but if you could help him understand that the behaviors are the problem, and not him personally, then maybe he could commit. Obviously, its not a simple thing, but I'm only trying to offer options for the discussions.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

4sure said:


> My husband and yours must have attended the same emotional detachment classes together. I swear that is what mine says while keeping his distance from me.
> 
> I really believe there is something wrong with my h not sure what. I have often wondered if he had been abused as a child. Of course he would never tell me.


My H is adamant about the fact that his childhood was wonderful and stable. My sister-in-law on the other hand, raised by the same parents, has a totally different view on it. I'm still trying to figure out that one.

How on earth do you cope? Yes, it's possible to engage in sex with someone you have no emotional connection with. I just can't most of the time. I married to share every part of me with my H and for him to share every part with me. When I am left feeling alone and uncared for, his touch just makes me shrink away from him.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

themrs said:


> BK - I once spent a week waiting for my husband to a) initiate a conversation with me that didn't include "what's for dinner" and b) touch me in a nonsexual way. I did the experiment for a whole week and neither one of those things happened. As a matter of fact, once he walked past me in the hallway and avoided even brushing up against me!
> 
> So I decided to do better by myself. I stopped waiting for him to "get it" and decided to live my life. I started eating better and working out (that helped with the depression I felt), I went shopping for better clothes, and reconnected with old friends. I had sex with him when I wanted too, but not out of obligation. I didn't initiate any converstations with him and when I needed to talk I just went to my girlfriends and mom.
> 
> At first I think he was relieved I was not nagging him. Then after a while he got lonely and started showing me more attention. So that is my advice to you. Just be the best you that you can be. Start treating yourself the way you want him to treat you.


Thank you for your suggestion but I can honestly say that I've tried this approach. There was a time that I engaged in posting on a forum, such as I am now. I enjoyed 'talking' with people. As I said, I became half numb and so pretty much went about doing things to make myself happy. Well, he asked me "Why can you talk to those people but you can't talk to your husband?" DUH! Because my husband made it known to me he wasn't interested! Why would he even ask me such a question when he already knew the answer?

Other times when situations would come up where I needed support I would call my sister. His words and body language came across to me as if he were saying he felt ignored.

I got in the habit of a routine where while laying in bed, in order to wind down I would surf the net or play a game on my phone. Again, it was my fault we weren't close. But yet when I stopped doing all these things, no attempt on his part to be the one to fulfill these needs for me. 

Isn't that basically telling me that he's unwilling to fulfill my needs but he doesn't want anyone else doing it either?

Also, I can tell you, only having sex with him when I wanted to didn't fly. He was a grouch alot of the time and repeatedly let me know in different ways that his need wasn't being met.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

ButterflyKisses said:


> Thank you for your suggestion but I can honestly say that I've tried this approach. There was a time that I engaged in posting on a forum, such as I am now. I enjoyed 'talking' with people. As I said, I became half numb and so pretty much went about doing things to make myself happy. Well, he asked me "Why can you talk to those people but you can't talk to your husband?" DUH! Because my husband made it known to me he wasn't interested! Why would he even ask me such a question when he already knew the answer?
> 
> Other times when situations would come up where I needed support I would call my sister. His words and body language came across to me as if he were saying he felt ignored.
> 
> ...



Ignore him. Don't give into his baiting you to go back to the same old detached relationship. 

He sounds pretty passive agressive to me. Who ACTS like they are being ignored but doesn't speak up? Give me a break. 

I think he wants a closer relationship with you but doesn't know how to break out of his comfort zone and you don't do much to make him break out of it because we he even acts as if he's unhappy, it seems as if you give in.

Some people will only change when it's no longer comfortable to stay the same. I think you both fit that description.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

BK,

I understand what you are saying, I've posted here about my 2nd wife, her mask, her fears that created it, and the distance it created. For much of the last year since I stopped working, I've felt more like a restricted bachelor with a Do Not Touch tag than a married man, the loss of connection horrible, marital sex very limited and just not that enjoyable. I have been making plans to begin divorce proceedings, move, and start dating.

I think your husband is a lost cause (historically the European troops who knew they would die in battle, not being allowed to retreat from superior forces) and you need to strengthen yourself and decide what you need and want from life. 

I think saying I'll be moving out and starting a divorce is my next step rang a bell in my spouse, that and her changing medications. Since early September she has been a lot nicer, dropped the mask, and we are having a better time together, she's paying attention, and being more affectionate.

I support your decision to detach from H, but let him know, not wonder. 

I'm not sure a possible OM is a good idea until you are physically separate, not out of concerns for a dead marriage, but more because it may cause you to loose sight of what you want. I say this because if I know I'd loose myself in a relationship having done so following my separation from my first wife in April '84 and meeting the woman I'd later marry in August of that year - I sure felt better but have wondered if I should have waited longer to get involved, it was rapidly apparent - in hours, at most a few days - I wanted a date and she wanted a wedding.

As the slightly saner husband of a BPD (borderline) wife from '70 to '84 I speak from experience when I say how hard it is to remove oneself from a first marriage, even a horrible marriage, when children (I seem to recall you have some but could be wrong) are present, but sometimes it is necessary to remove the wedding ring, cry and start to heal. 

Try to stop being numb, let yourself feel your hurt, let your eyes tear, then follow your dreams, there is life after marriage.

Mark


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I am scratching my head here. And if *I* don't get it, I can imagine he does not either. What is it you want him to DO? If you want him to hold you, you can't say please hold me now? What does it mean for him to "be there for you?" If you want him to talk, why can't you say can we please talk? And then be prepared to say whatever? 

When I read "I wish I had words for you" I think I heard I so want to do or be whatever it is you need me to be. Please show me how. I also think I heard the standard male response of I wish I could fix it for you that they never REALLY understand is not what we want. 

I would bet a dollar that if you guys were each asked separately by a therapist what it means to "be there," your perspectives would be completely different. Have you tried therapy?

Good luck!

S


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

themrs said:


> Ignore him. Don't give into his baiting you to go back to the same old detached relationship.
> 
> He sounds pretty passive agressive to me. Who ACTS like they are being ignored but doesn't speak up? Give me a break.
> 
> ...


After the first few times of me giving in and going back to the same old detached relationship, I started doing my own thing again. So then it got to the point where apparently it stopped bothering him because he stopped getting lonely. Then we both settled in to living room-mate lives for quite awhile.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

ButterflyKisses said:


> After the first few times of me giving in and going back to the same old detached relationship, I started doing my own thing again. So then it got to the point where apparently it stopped bothering him because he stopped getting lonely. Then we both settled in to living room-mate lives for quite awhile.


Honestly, I think he wants to change but he doesn't know how. I think you have to be more specific. I think you are going to have to say, "I need you to hold me now" and the like.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

takris said:


> Please don't accept numbness as an option.


The pain and the stress are really affecting me. I'm not sleeping right and I feel terrible overall. I feel as if I'm going to snap. My kids are going through issues and my daughter is doing poorly in school (not due to H and I's problems). I can't help but welcome numbness.




takris said:


> If you were to discuss the behaviors (or lack thereof) that support a healthy marriage, do you think he would agree that he should be attempting to meet these needs? Especially if you show a willingness to hold yourself to the same expectations.


We have discussed these behaviors (repeatedly) and yes, he is in total agreement that he is responsible for meeting these needs.



takris said:


> If not, and you came to the point that you let him know that inaction was not an option, would the threat make him reconsider?


I've told him on several occasions I wanted a divorce. What I get from him seems like indifference. I don't believe he wants a divorce but he doesn't want to do anything to stop one from happening.




takris said:


> I'm sure this sounds naive to some, but if you could help him understand that the behaviors are the problem, and not him personally, then maybe he could commit. Obviously, its not a simple thing, but I'm only trying to offer options for the discussions.



I have tried several ways to get through to him. Everything I say, every way I say it, makes him feel like a failure. I don't think he can stop thinking about how he feels long enough to really consider how I feel.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

ThinkTooMuch said:


> BK,
> 
> I understand what you are saying, I've posted here about my 2nd wife, her mask, her fears that created it, and the distance it created. For much of the last year since I stopped working, I've felt more like a restricted bachelor with a Do Not Touch tag than a married man, the loss of connection horrible, marital sex very limited and just not that enjoyable. I have been making plans to begin divorce proceedings, move, and start dating.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your story and your kind words Mark


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I would bet a dollar that if you guys were each asked separately by a therapist what it means to "be there," your perspectives would be completely different.


We do have totally different ideas on what it means to "be there", but I have expressed my definition over and over, so he knows.



vthomeschoolmom said:


> If you want him to hold you, you can't say please hold me now?


I can, but I won't. 

Oh, and I asked for therapy, he can't fit it into his work schedule.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

It sounds as if you've tried everything. I'm in a similar spot. My wife suffers from BPD behaviours, depression, etc, and her feeling that we would all be better off without her tears my heart. But I've personally decided that I can't live such an empty existance forever. We will try counseling, but I've given myself a deadline of late next year.

I just hope you can find a path that leads to happiness.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

Here's something else to just further complicate things.


H has recently told me that due to the fact I have threatened to leave several times, it has caused him to put a wall up which makes him incapable of investing 100% into the marriage.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Bk
I'm sorry. Reading your posts and being there myself with my h, makes me have an ill feeling. The emotional turmoil is stressing. You are asking for very little and he can't reach out to the woman he loves. It also is sad for him. He will loose a good woman, and for what, his pride. 
Do you think it may help if you separate, but not rush to divorce? Sounds like this is needed. This is taking a toll on your health.
It is sad that it has to come down to this for you, me, Takris, and others in the same boat.

I wish you all the best.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

4sure said:


> Bk
> I'm sorry. Reading your posts and being there myself with my h, makes me have an ill feeling. The emotional turmoil is stressing. You are asking for very little and he can't reach out to the woman he loves. It also is sad for him. He will loose a good woman, and for what, his pride.
> Do you think it may help if you separate, but not rush to divorce? Sounds like this is needed. This is taking a toll on your health.
> It is sad that it has to come down to this for you, me, Takris, and others in the same boat.
> ...


Thanks 4sure, I wish you the best too.

It's so frustrating because meeting your partners needs seems fairly simple. But it just seems as if what we need the most from each other is what's hardest for the other to give. 

As far as separating, I don't know what I will do. I think I need to just step back from the situation for awhile to preserve my own sanity.


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