# Unsure what to think



## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

I'd be grateful for thoughts about my situation. I Don't really have anyone else to ask for advice.

My wife and I have been together for 10 years. We married 8 years ago and 6 years ago had a daughter (my wife had a 10 year old daughter by a previous marriage when we met). Initially our sex life was very good, but, like most couples I guess, suffered when we had our daughter and she often complained after that that it was sometimes painful to have sex.
We both lead busy lives, but at special times when we were able to be alone together had great sex and good times. Otherwise our sex life seemed okay, but had lost some of its sparkle.

In April of last year I was made redundant from my job (although I had an interim position until November of last year – since which time I have been unemployed). Expecting to find work quickly I used my severance pay (I was very well paid) to buy a business in my wife’s chosen profession which she now runs, but of course apart from her income, we are now broke!

However the relationship with my wife deteriorated towards the end of last year with rows and times when we were both very stressed and we had severe money problems. She told me that her sex life with me was very bad and painful. I told her I was happy to work on it – but at the time said it was very difficult because of the stress. 

In February of this year, things got worse. She started complaining about everything I did. I could do nothing right. In March she started buying things for an apartment we have over the business (it is supposed to be rented out but our tenant had left). She had used it since the previous October to sleep in on days she finished work late (the business is 50 miles from home and sometimes a difficult commute); but it seemed to be strange spending money we hadn’t got, to make this place homely.

At the beginning of April, she had told me I ought to go to the Doctor and check that I was okay since she said that the pain she was experiencing during sex might be my fault, and she didn’t want to have any painful sex any more. I did and he said he could find nothing wrong with me. I had expected her to be pleased at this news but she seemed even more irritable. It was at this point that something didn’t seem right and I had a look at her phone and found texts indicating she was having an affair with another man.

They seem to have been having sex at least since February, and phone conversations that went back into last year. When I confronted her with this (on the 17th April) she said that they’d being chatting over the internet since 2006. They’d had a friendship, but then last November decided to take it further. They met in hotels and at the apartment. I’m still not sure she has told me everything. She said it was my fault and I'd forced her to do this because she was so frustrated. She said she needed an active sex life and couldn't live without good sex.

She said it was over with him – that he’d ended it. But I wasn’t so sure. But I didn’t find any evidence of her contacting him from mid-April until last week. She said he’d brainwashed her. Told her originally it would only be a bit of fun. Then kept saying to her she couldn’t have him and me and he’d end it. Only to contact her again a few weeks later. This had been a pattern she said and now she found it difficult to get him out of her head. But she said it was over. We agreed we should work on the relationship and I’ve been trying to pay lots of attention to her and to have sex more often and to try and enable her to get to good orgasms since she keeps telling me I’m not good at sex (although it’s never been a problem in any other relationship – but it hurts that in her texts she’d kept telling him he was so good)

Then last Friday and Saturday I discovered she’d sent over 130 texts to him on these two days – these continued over the weekend. At one point on Saturday night she said ‘ I’m scared he will be in contact again (she didn’t know I knew about the latest texts which were from a new number), I don’t know if I can cope, I need your support’. I said I would do whatever she wanted and I loved her very very much. 
Then last night she said to me it was all over with him ‘ he said doesn’t want to share me, he feels sorry for you (she said) and so he’s not going to be in contact ever again’.
My head has been in turmoil in all this. I love my wife very much and want things to be right. But I don’t know if forgiving her and trying to give her everything she needs is going to work.
Please let me have your views an opinions.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

In my opinion it seems to be over. She has went to this guy and is keeping it going in secret, which she did for several years. She started it up again and is lying about it. She blames you for her pain issues, yet you made no comment about her having herself checked out. 

It seems that she was unwilling to change anything the first time she got caught and is not remorseful or regretful of her actions and infidelity. I see her doing nothing such as counciling, getting medically checked (which seems odd that she would claim it hurt with you but was so good with him, leads me to believe that she is just not in log nor attracted to you anymore, so she never is mentally, emotionally, or physically ready for you anymore), or making efforts to include you in her life.

I am sorry you are here and experiencing these issues, and would seek legal counsel and prepare to protect yourself from the inevitable that seems to be coming (as I can be the is preparing for things). She is repeating previous actions which points to the sign of serial repetitiveness and signs of your future if you elect to stay together.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Wow Im so sorry to hear about your situation. To me it seems she married you to help her raise her son. Then she took your money to start her buisness. She is and was using you. If it were me I would divorce her sorry azz ASAP. Oh by the way, the affair is ALL HER FAULT!!! I know you are hurting and devastated. Take some time for yourself. Eat right and exercise it will help you het yourself
together. I wish you all the best, because you deserve the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So you want to reconcile if she really ended this time ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thound said:


> Wow Im so sorry to hear about your situation. To me it seems she married you to help her raise her son. Then she took your money to start her buisness. She is and was using you. If it were me I would divorce her sorry azz ASAP. Oh by the way, the affair is ALL HER FAULT!!! I know you are hurting and devastated. Take some time for yourself. Eat right and exercise it will help you het yourself
> together. I wish you all the best, because you deserve the best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am really trying to see if there is anything left of his non-existent self respect.

Some of these stories...


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Squeakr and Thound, I read your responses and my stomach churned. I can't disagree with anything you've said.

I asked her why she didn't get herself checked out and she said that she'd been checked out after the birth in 2006 and everything was okay with her and it must be me at fault. 

I suggested counselling, but she says ' why - how is talking to a stranger going to help anything' I'd suggested sex therapy, but she says 'all this advice on touching sounds weird' so no.

We have had sex (almost every day since I confronted her), and she says she's enjoying my attention (I've been texting her compliments through each day). I'm trying to get her more aroused but it's very difficult (as I said I've never had this problem before) - she's only orgasm'd once - and she gets visibly upset if she doesn't orgasm.

She says she wants to forget about the affair - says she will get depressed if she things I'm going to keep talking about it (so I haven't mentioned it much since first disclosure). At the weekend - when she said she needed my support I said that maybe she should just say to herself she was never going to be in contact with him again. She joked - you mean repeat after me... so I said yes - I swear that I will never be in contact with him again. All of a sudden she exploded with rage - what, she said, you mean I would burn in hell if I did? You can't control my mind. It's personal. I have to decide what to do not you. Its over but if he texts me or calls you mean I can't answer. I want my freedom i'm not going to be locked up. Why do you have to go there again just as it's decided. (of course at this time she did not know I knew that day she had texted him 100 times).

Despite this she does say she wants to try and work it out and she seems less complaining and she does say she loves me - but like you say, it doesn't feel right.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Warlock - I do still love her and am looking for excuses to reconcile. My heart wants to, but my brain says I'm crazy - that's why I posted. It's helpful to get other opinions outside the situation.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See an attorney.

She plays you for a fool and if you stay with her she will have been correct. Good Grief man: If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She is wanting to sweep this affair under the rug. Dont let her! She needs to do the heavy lifting. And unless you are an unusally endowed the painful sex bit is BS . Well there is also painful sex associated with women who have sex with men they dont want to be with., but other than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Your wife is suffering from a condition that we often see described here.

It's called *Severe Lack Of Consequences*.

The remedy, is for you to provide her those consequences; as you should have done when you first found out about the A.

They don't include trying to play nice, telling her you love her, and not even mentioning that you know she's still been contacting the POSOM. 

They do include exposing her and the POSOM, demanding no contact, insisting on her transparency, and accepting nothing less than complete and genuine remorse from her.

You are also suffering from a condition. It's called *Extreme Beta Male Behavior*. This can be remedied by manning up; by stop trying to nice your wife back. She needs to understand what it's like to lose her husband for cheating on him, in the worst way.

You should tell her you know that she's still been contacting him and that you've had enough. Implement the 180 to detach from her, consult a divorce attorney and tell her you need some time to decide what you're going to do. Tell her that her demonstration of no contact, transparency, and true remorse will be a factor in your decision.

Then take a few weeks to see how she reacts. If she doesn't turn around, keep going through with the D. If she does, check back here for more advice. We can help you recognize whether she is genuine.

Sorry you're here.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> Warlock - I do still love her and am looking for excuses to reconcile. My heart wants to, but my brain says I'm crazy - that's why I posted. It's helpful to get other opinions outside the situation.


I am not trying to insult you or hurt you when I said that...


Why have so little regard and love for yourself ?


Why do you let someone treat you worse than sh!t ?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like it's only "over" because OM ended it and that he could have her back at any time w/ little more than a phone call. 

In other words, it's not "over" at all, at least not for your WW. If it were, she'd have already changed her phone number and simultaneously blocked his. Get ready to start sharing her again just as soon as OM decides to call her back.

Also, you say that a) your daughter is 6 and b) your WW been involved w/ OM since 2006. *Get a paternity test.* Don't believe for a second that the PA is only a recent development. In fact, don't believe anything that your WW says that can't be corroborated w/ evidence.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're doing pretty much everything "wrong". She's the one that needs to show true remorse for what she's done. She's the one that should be laying awake at night worrying about what she's got to do to make things up to you. She's the one that needs to do the heavy lifting to try to fix things. 

As it is... She has no respect for you. She knows that she can cheat, and aside from some whining from you, things are even better now because she's got you doing everything you can to make things better, while she continues to coast. She knows that you've got no other options. 

So... What are you willing to do to change this dynamic?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Lon1 said:


> I asked her why she didn't get herself checked out and she said that she'd been checked out after the birth in 2006 and everything was okay with her and it must be me at fault.


Lon,

This is ridiculous on its face. So she was able to b*ng another man with no pain and no problems, but somehow painful sex with you is YOUR fault?!

And she sends YOU to the doctor to find out why sex hurts, all the while knowing that sex with the OM isn't painful at all? To send you on a wild-goose-chase with doctors is the ultimate deceit.

I will let you in on a little secret... the sex with you wasn't painful. It's an excuse... she didn't want to have sex with you because she was with someone else who she WANTED to have sex with.

Do NOT let her rug sweep her affair. More importantly, YOU can't rug sweep the affair if you hope to have a shred of dignity left.

It's time for her to step up and own her infidelity. Otherwise I don't see much hope for the two of you long term.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hi Lon,

Your marriage troubles have number of chicken and egg problems. You became unemployed and plowed your severance pay into her business, thus making you more dependent on her. That lowered your sex ranking and may have contributed to the lack of sexual desire for you.

What is the value of the business if you divorce? Is her fear of pay you off your share what holds her to you? When did she start the business?

Your description of your sex life is frankly baffling. How could you be hurting her? Is your penis too big or too curved and your wife wanted a doctor to confirm that it was abnormal?

Are you very rough? Maybe you were hurting her because she already had had intense sex with OM and she was sore?

Why didn't she go to a doctor?

She has been in an EA of some sort with him since 2006! And why do you believe the date she offered for the progression to a PA?

I have good news for you. You marriage is in such terrible shape that it can only get better, either that or you chuck in the bin.

Are you over weight? Smoke? Get in shape. Read MMSLP.

Don't whine or feel sorry for yourself in front of her. Pretend your life has never been better. She may wonder what drug you are on and fall in love with you so that you will share it with you. If you have been beta-ized from the beginning, accept it as a lesson and plan for a new life without her.

Please don't tell us that your wife is massage therapist.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Team, the consistency in your posts is making me feel much better 

So - some responses: After talking to the doctor last month I'm pretty sure the sex pain is due to insufficient lubrication. I'd said this to her some years ago, but she said that the jelly made her feel all messy and she didn't like it and she really didn't think that was the problem. So after your comments I think she was just going through the motions and that her head was miles away when we were having sex so she was almost impossible to arouse.

I'm in pretty good shape (weight, looks, personality - at least when I not recovering from being hit by a car / wife affair) so alternatives won't be a problem. But I do love her still (stupid as that is, and I do worry like hell about my daughter - who I'm about 95% sure is mine!)

The business cost about £100,000K, is 11 months old and so probable won't be worth it's investment for about 6 months. The company that owns it has my wife and I as the only shareholders (I didn't envisage the current situation when we set up the shareholding structure) - but it's business and can be sorted so I'm not worried about it. If we do split up, it can still make money - so over time I should get my money back.

I think all the thoughts helpful - two questions 1) where is there info on a 180? 2) what was behind your comment about a massage therapist - didn't get that?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Lon1

Read my thread linked in my signature. You seem to be going down my direction. 

I know easier said than done, but you need to man up.. I know its hard.. You would eat her sh1t off the floor if it would fix this. But sadly it isn't.. 

Only when you stand up and act rational will you see any change in her.. 

You didn't do anything wrong but she is trying to shift the blame onto you to keep you unsteady and prevent you from seeing how WRONG she is.. She knows it.. Like a magician doing slight of hand.. That is what she is doing to you..

Get a job.. Any job.. 

Again in many ways you fell into my rut.. She ended up doing everything. You became dependant on her.. Its like a drug.. 

I went through it.. Heck I panicked over paying the bills. Not that I didn't have the money, I panicked about just writing checks to pay them. When were the due dates.. Did I miss them ? What was pending !!.. 

You just lose your mind when this stuff happens.

Look regardless of what happens, you come to discover if you man up and make your own decisions you at least in the end walk way with your pride.. 

For me I tried until I seen it was over and then I manned up. But honestly I think if I manned up earlier I could have saved my marriage.

I look at it this way for you

If she can tell you with a straight face she fvcked this guy and did whatever with him without feeling guilty or remorse then she has no respect for you. You are just the guy that is there until the next guy comes along.

But if she feels embarrassed about what she did and can't look you in the face without crying then you might have a chance.

Your d1ck hurting her now all of a sudden is her excuse not to have sex with you. straight and simple. You know it, I know it, we know it. 

Trust me the minute you stand up for yourself things will change. She might get more defensive but they will change. If she keeps fighting you then her true colors will be showing. She is done and just doesn't give a sh1t. Trust me on this one.. I know from first hand experience.. 

My Ex would get a call, get dressed, go out and fvck this other man and come home 4 hours later. I knew where she was going and there was nothing I could do about it. It was the longest, most painful 4 months of my life..

Only after I manned up did I get some self respect back. Again trust me.. I even hated when people would tell me to man up.. I wanted to reach into the screen and choke the crap out of them. 

But as harsh as it was, they were right.. 

Keep posting.. Force her to go to the GNO and go with her to see what the doctor says about her issue. Don't let her come home and give you a BS story, when she knows the truth.. She will come home and say the doctor said it was your fault. 

Once that is addressed. Look you cannot force anyone to go to therapy if they don't want to. You go to therapy. 

She has to want to make changes and fix this..


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

i'm sorry your wife cheated on you and that you are now in such a bad place. 

i hope you can find the strength to do what is best for you and your dd. no way in hell i'd stay with your WW but if she is truly remorseful and willing to work harder than she ever has before, you 2 might be able to save this marriage. 

good luck.


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## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

man you need help with you your being used and all you can think about is what can you do for her. stop putting her before you. divorce her asap because shes just using you.


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## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

you realize shes cheated just about you whole marriage that alone would make most people leave


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here

180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

Dr Robert Glover's No More Mr Nice Guy


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> Warlock - I do still love her and am looking for excuses to reconcile. My heart wants to, but my brain says I'm crazy - that's why I posted. It's helpful to get other opinions outside the situation.


I'm not one to immediately tell you to run to a dr. and check yourself out for STD's.

But...run to a dr and get yourself checked out for STD's.

Her pain during sex can EASILY be explained by a nasty bug.

But more than likely it was an excuse to keep you as a cuckold.

THe worst part of this story is that you actively WANT to be her cuckold. Why are you being so wishy washy? You want to reconcile if she's really done with him THIS TIME?

She doesn't love you. Spending your life and emotions on someone like this is a horrible message to send to a daughter.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> At the beginning of April, she had told me I ought to go to the Doctor and check that I was okay since she said that the pain she was experiencing during sex might be my fault, and she didn’t want to have any painful sex any more. I did and he said he could find nothing wrong with me. I had expected her to be pleased at this news but she seemed even more irritable. It was at this point that something didn’t seem right and I had a look at her phone and found texts indicating she was having an affair with another man.


 Sounds like she had her own STD scare and sent you off to the doctor's to get checked out. If you would have came up positive for the clap or something, she would have used that as her excuse. Blaming you for cheating on her and now she has to go see the doc to get a disease YOU gave her cleared up!


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Crossbar - yes after reading the other posts today this had crossed my mind and would be logical. 

One other thing that happened that may / may not collaborate this - as I mentioned, since I told her I found out (two weeks ago) we have been having a reasonable amount of sex - but at the start of last week she told me that she is getting a burning sensation (this is a different 'pain') from the one she had been describing before - as I ejaculate into her - that is very painful and continues after she has had sex.

She researched on the web and told me that she thought she might be allergic to my semen - so since last week she wanted us to always use a condom. She has said since using them it has been much better.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I read a story recently. The wife asked the guy to move out and made him write the house over to him. He did in hopes of impressing her, show her his true love and winning her back.

He got duped. Don't be that guy.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Your wife has done a vile thing to you and your family and I am willing to bet you don't have the full truth yet.

And you gave her £100K to enable her business and "knocking shop" above it !!!!

I would protect your finances and custody to your kids asap and start the divorce process. I really cannot see how you can even think of reconciling with her or even say that you love her ?!?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Get tested for STDs.

Both of you.


In case you did not notice it, she started the sex because she needed to placate you after she got caught.

Then she realized you are not going anywhere or leaving her. So now she switched to condoms. 

Then the sex gets sparse and soon you will be back to where you were before you found out about her.

You realize she is only with you because she got dumped ?

Try this. tell her you will talk to the OM to get the full story because you did not believe her. Can you do that ?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> *get tested for stds.
> 
> Both of you.*
> 
> ...


Exactly ^this!!!


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> She says she wants to forget about the affair - says she will get depressed if she things I'm going to keep talking about it (so I haven't mentioned it much since first disclosure). t.



gmafb
she can fvck some guy for months but you can't mention it? unreal. 

and speaking of unreal, this nonsense about her being allergic to your semen sounds like bs to me. if it didn't bother her before she even got pregnant, why would it now? 

she thinks she's got you wrapped around her finger and unless you man up and stand up she'll continue to treat you like sh1t. don't let her. no fkin way i would.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

cool12 said:


> ..this nonsense about her being allergic to your semen sounds like bs to me. if it didn't bother her before she even got pregnant, why would it now?


I agree. This is total BS. You don't "suddenly become" allergic to your husband's semen.

Keep an eye out for EOMBs (explanation of medical benefits) from your health insurance company or go online to their website to see if she has visited the doctor lately. Look for charges on your credit card or checks written to HER doctor. If she's been recently, it's very likely she had an STD and had it treated.

You need to seriously consider whether this is a person who is worthy of your love and commitment. She has been cheating for basically your WHOLE marriage.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> She researched on the web and told me that she thought she might be allergic to my semen - so since last week she wanted us to always use a condom. She has said since using them it has been much better.


 Let me get this straight. Your wife denies you sex while seeking sex from her affair partner. When you find out that she has been having sex with another man, she suspects you of giving her a STD and demands that you get checked out by a doctor, while also demanding that you not bring her affair up because it might hurt her feelings. When the doctor gives you a clean bill of health, she then tells you that you need to use a condom because she read on the web that she may be allergic to your semen. Are you kidding me?

OK lets look at the facts. 1 in 4 Americans will get an STD in their lifetime, while less than 1 in 10,000 Americans will ever be allergic to their spouse's semen, yet you are suppose to beleive that the burning sensation that your wife (the confirmed cheater) has is caused by an allergy to your semen and not by her getting an STD? Again, are you kidding me? The odds are 2,500 times more likely that she has an STD than that she is allergic to your semen. It really amazes me how known confirmed lying cheaters expected you to believe them over ridiculous odds. They try to insist that you ignore common sense.

Since your wife demanded that you get checked for an STD and get back to her with the results under the assumption that you may have cheated on her without any indication that you did cheat, how about you now demand that she get checked for an STD and get back to you with the results based on the knowledge that she did in fact cheat.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> I suggested counselling, *but she says *' why - how is talking to a stranger going to help anything' I'd suggested sex therapy, but she says 'all this advice on touching sounds weird' so no.
> 
> We have had sex (almost every day since I confronted her), and she says *she's enjoying my attention *(*I've been texting her compliments through each day*). I'm trying to get her more aroused but it's very difficult (as I said I've never had this problem before) - she's only orgasm'd once - and she gets visibly upset if she doesn't orgasm.
> *Don't do this*
> ...


Sorry about what’s happening to you but when I read this I have to comment. She is trying to maintain control over you – she lacks respect and will try to work on the relationship only on her terms and conditions and rules. Do not play this game with her. If it was me I would boot her out and then watch her behaviors to decide if I want to continue. She will continue this game of making all the rules and decisions until you act. Shake her world up, kick her out, and as hard as it is act like you don’t need her and would be fine going on with your life without her. Affairs are about control and lack of respect – so far I think she is winning the game. Turn it around and watch her change……Stay strong, do not act weak in front of her. Why would you want this :scratchhead: you need to 180 her butt and stop trying to nice her back - that wil make it worse....180


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> Crossbar - but at the start of last week she told me that she is getting a burning sensation (this is a different 'pain') from the one she had been describing before - as I ejaculate into her - that is very painful and continues after she has had sex.


 Lon1, when you went to the doctor to get checked out did he do any blood work? 

You better be real careful because she might have picked up a dose of the "gleep' from this guy and she going to pass it on to you. The other so called pain she had was a lie. She just didn't want to have sex with you understand?

It's time that someone lays it out for you. You have a lying cheating wife who couldn't make a patch on a good woman's ass. She' been cheating almost the entire marriage and now if I was a betting man passing on a possible STD.

The woman has given you no respect, has taken your love that you have for her and used it like toilet paper to her butt and and why for the life of me would you want to be with someone who treats you in this manner.

It's time that you make her pay for her inexcusable bad behavior and do not let her rug sweep or cheating. 

You have every right to ask as many questions as you want and if she wont answer them, then before she runs off to the apartment above your business, rent it out for what ever you can get for it, tell her that you've had enough and for her to leave. The longer you let this go on, the worse it will get.

It's time for you to start acting like you have a back bone and take back your life. You can do much better than what your getting. Get to a doctor and get checked out and her too.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> She researched on the web and told me that she thought she might be allergic to my semen



Loni my man. It ain't your semen she's allergic to; its you. You need to wake up and smell the coffee Dawg. What is it about this gal that has you so tied up. By your own admission, she thinks you're a dud both in and out of the sack. And while you're scratching your head trying to figure out why she's spending money you don't have she's being serviced by her BF in the apartment that ain't rented. You may love her but she obviously doesn't love you. And when you think about it, the reason a woman will stay and be happy with a man is because she love him. 
Be honest with yourself and take a real appraisal of your relationship; before she has you having sex while wearing a chemical warfare suit.


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## Tiberius (Mar 22, 2012)

Lon,

-change the locks of the apartment ASAP

-find the OM and expose him to his girlfriend/wife/family

-tell your wife that her behaviour is unacceptable and if she 
behaves like a single woman, you release, her

-tell her to collect her stuff and move in with OM

-the kids stay with you

-draft the divorce papers and ask her to sign them

No begging, crying or pleading, no more Mr. Nice Guy. You mean business, you want to be respected.

If you do not do the above, she would not get out of the 'affair fog'. She lives in a parallel world, in a bubble of illusion where she does not have to wash, cook, clean, wipe snotty noses, pay bills...She lives in a world of excitement, forbidden sex and romance.

Burst her bubble Lon if you want her back. But do find a councilor for IC for you as you need to understand yourself-why do you want to be with someone like your wife who has cheated through most of your marriage?


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Lon1, I am truly sorry that you are here. What you are going through is nothing short of a horrific nightmare come true. Recently, a fellow TAMmer, "LUVMYJAVA" went through a VERY similar situation. Unlike you, he decided that he was not going to let his wife treat him like a doormat and took action. Here is a link to his thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-confessed-how-handle-her-romps-loverboy.html

Yes, it's a long thread, but I think it will help you IMMENSELY!! By reading his thread, you will see how doing the 180, contacting an attorney and doing everything to better oneself will turn this horrific situation around for you. You can forget any chance of reconciling with your wife, if you remain on your current path. She will simply do the EXACT same abhorrent acts with someone else. Please, please, PLEASE, TAKE ACTION NOW!!!!!


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Being a doormat is bad. It is very very bad.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

So, some reflections and new information after your helpful thoughts.

I will take advice and check, but at the moment I don't think OM gave her STD (although I think she may have got Thrush / Oral infection from him - since the dates match up). But I do think she might have been worried that he had as you suggest.

Have found more info about her previous contact with OM and believe it was a 'friendship' (i.e. occasional mails / chats but very infrequent) until early 2013 when it turned into an EA. I think they first met up in June of last year and decided to meet up for first sex in November of last year.

Her attitude does seem to have changed since Monday - early days but more attentive and showing more affection and willingness to change. We had sex last night and she was like a different person (which in itself could be worrying) but she was all over me for most of the night.

At the moment I'm tracking her movements and coms without her knowledge (I think) and if there is one more mail / text / call then I will do the 180 immediately which does seem very good advice. I'll also check with lawyer so I have that option lined up. But for the rest of this week (at least) I'm going to see if her behaviour change is for real. (not least because our 6yr old has started behavioural problems which I'm sure is related).

I am aware this is a high risk approach and not the best thing to do. Also that her behaviour means a very strong possibility that this is all an act and in a while she will start again - but at the moment have my eyes open to that.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> *I am aware this is a high risk approach and not the best thing to do. * Also that her behaviour means a very strong possibility that this is all an act and in a while she will start again - but at the moment have my eyes open to that.


Lon1,

If you are aware that this is not the best thing to do, then why are you doing it? It's not so much a high risk approach, as a low success rate approach.

What consequences has your wife received? Exposure? Have you told her family and your family? Do you have complete access to her computer/cell. Can you discuss the A with her at any time without her blowing up?

You can't be afraid of what she will do. You can't fear divorce. She is the one that created this.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

I don't fear a divorce, at the moment I see it as an option that I will probably have to take - but not just yet.

She is now accepting questioning about A and telling me the answer to any question I ask and she is also starting to show some remorse. I'm still not sure it's genuine but prepared to give it a few more days to test.

I have about 80% visibility of her coms / computer. Not 100% but I think enough to give me an indication if she is lying or if OM makes contact.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> I don't fear a divorce, at the moment I see it as an option that I will probably have to take - but not just yet.
> 
> She is now accepting questioning about A and telling me the answer to any question I ask and she is also starting to show some remorse. I'm still not sure it's genuine but prepared to give it a few more days to test.
> 
> I have about 80% visibility of her coms / computer. Not 100% but I think enough to give me an indication if she is lying or if OM makes contact.


Okay Lon1,

That's good. I hope that the 80% visibility means your stealth monitoring capability and not that she's 80% transparent with her devices. You should continue to monitor her covertly, but at the same time she should be willing to let you look through anything.

If you do wind up in R, I don't want it to be a false one, and I don't want you to have regrets in a year or two for not testing her remorse enough. 

Part of that remorse is her doing the heavy lifting; and that includes accepting exposure.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> She said she *needed an active sex life* and couldn't live without good sex.
> 
> She said it was over with him – that he’d ended it. But I wasn’t so sure. But I didn’t find any evidence of her contacting him from mid-April until last week. She said he’d brainwashed her. Told her originally it would only be a bit of fun. *Then kept saying to her she couldn’t have him and me* and he’d end it. Only to contact her again a few weeks later. This had been a pattern she said and now she found it difficult to get him out of her head. But she said it was over. We agreed we should work on the relationship and I’ve been trying to pay lots of attention to her and to have sex more often and to try and enable her to get to good orgasms since she keeps telling me I’m not good at sex (although it’s never been a problem in any other relationship – but it hurts that in her texts she’d kept telling him he was so good)
> 
> ...


The bolded stuff above is why you're wearing a condom. She's still, in some strange way, saving herself for him. There's a whole bunch of chemistry and psychology mixed up in why you're wearing a wrapper. (Machiavelli!!!) 

Anyway, she's not done with him yet. Since divorce is an option for you, push her. Do the above suggested actions: exposure, transparency, no contact, etc and you will arrive at your destination a whole lot quicker.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> I don't fear a divorce, at the moment I see it as an option that I will probably have to take - but not just yet.
> 
> She is now accepting questioning about A and telling me the answer to any question I ask and she is also starting to show some remorse. I'm still not sure it's genuine but prepared to give it a few more days to test.
> 
> I have about 80% visibility of her coms / computer. Not 100% but I think enough to give me an indication if she is lying or if OM makes contact.


First of all, who cares if you have "80% of her coms / computer"? You already know she has screwed you over. You already know that the odds are great that she will do it again, if you do not, at the VERY LEAST, give her consequences for her current and past transgressions. 

Instead, you are placating her. And I quote from your original post "I said I would do whatever she wanted and I loved her very very much" and "but I don’t know if forgiving her and trying to give her everything she needs is going to work". Are you crazy? You are basically telling her "you did a bad thing and hurt me, but I will overlook it and do whatever you want, if you just please love me". 

Oh, and when she said to you that the OM "feels sorry for you", what she is really saying is that the OM thinks you are a weak excuse for a man for marrying a scheming tramp as a wife and letting him do whatever he wanted to her and not do anything about it!!!!! Look, if my wife did these things to me, I would take her to McDonalds, get her a big mac, then take her to the fifth ward (Houston's version of COMPTON/S. Central) and dump her off on a street corner without her purse and tell her good luck. And she would be getting off LUCKY.

You may say you do not fear divorce, but you sound TERRIFIED of losing her love. The problem is, she loves you like a puppy... NOT A MAN. I'm sorry if this sounds like tough love, but you are in extreme denial.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Dude, as far as I know, thrush is symptom and not transmitted. Thrush is normal for a child to get but not an adult. 

The only two ways that I know an adult can develop thrush is prolonged use of an antibiotic and the other is HIV. 

I would go to your doctor and get checked out. I would abstain from sex with her altogether and if that isn't possible. Continue to use a condom.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> She says she wants to forget about the affair - says she will get depressed if she things I'm going to keep talking about it (so I haven't mentioned it much since first disclosure).


Of course she does. No, she won't get depressed; she is threatening you if you don't shut up and just let her get on with her life. And you're a fool for not bringing it up, as you have now taught her that you're so desperate to stay married that you'll let her do anything and still take her back.

You should:
have all her passwords
be able to take her phone from her and check it without her *****ing
be in therapy with her to determine how she could do this
have gotten her to write a NC letter to the OM that YOU approved and sent
be able to verify where she is all day, every day
be talking about this at least once a week until YOU are done. 

She doesn't get to make the rules. SHE screwed up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> At the moment I'm tracking her movements and coms without her knowledge (I think) and if there is one more mail / text / call then I will do the 180 immediately which does seem very good advice. I'll also check with lawyer so I have that option lined up. But for the rest of this week (at least) I'm going to see if her behaviour change is for real. (not least because our 6yr old has started behavioural problems which I'm sure is related).
> 
> I am aware this is a high risk approach and not the best thing to do. Also that her behaviour means a very strong possibility that this is all an act and in a while she will start again - but at the moment have my eyes open to that.


What is it you think is high risk?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Does she still spend time in the apt over her shop?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> At the moment I'm tracking her movements and coms without her knowledge (I think) and if there is one more mail / text / call then I will do the 180 immediately which does seem very good advice. I'll also check with lawyer so I have that option lined up.


Correction: if they regain contact, you will FIRST call her parents, siblings, and best friend and inform them that she is cheating on you. And you will call HIS parents/siblings and tell them to keep him the hell away from your family.

THEN you do the 180.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

An update....

Yesterday my WW called me from the car on the way home very upset. I asked her if it was the OM in contact with her and she said yes. When she got home we talked and I asked him what he'd done. She said he'd sent a text asking how she was and saying he was going abroad for work.

My response was to say that this was obviously not going to end and I was filing for divorce. She said the affair was over - I said obviously not since they still had a relationship where they were texting each other. She cried and said she was trying very hard. She had been truthful and told me about the text, she had deleted it without replying (I checked and she was telling the truth), she wanted to work on saving our relationship and would do anything. She felt dirty and like a ***** and she couldn't see the bad feelings ever going away or changing but she was very sorry and loved me. She felt the OM was bullying her by this constant contact.

I said that if he made any more contact I would immediately inform his wife kids and work colleague (I have all these details). I was also go and see him and sort him out.

Later she said she felt so unsettled with my talk of divorce. I said it was an easy one to solve, she just had to get the OM out of her head and get back to loving her husband and child.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> An update....
> 
> Yesterday my WW called me from the car on the way home very upset. I asked her if it was the OM in contact with her and she said yes. When she got home we talked and I asked him what he'd done. She said he'd sent a text asking how she was and saying he was going abroad for work.
> 
> ...


I find it concerning that she just deleted the text. It is good she told you, but why was she so upset as this makes little sense unless she feared for your reaction, in which case why delete the text and not leave it there for you to see that she wasn't hiding it or anything? I don't thing they understand, as they are so used to just immediately deleting, that deleting feels like betrayal and an attempt to further hide things from the BS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Deleting texts is common. Most people don't understand the methodology of ending affairs like we have here and would assume the best thing to do is to delete it and move on. She sounds remorseful.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

I think she was upset not at what my reaction might be but at her own reaction. As I mentioned before she says she feels he brainwashed her. She realises now it was all a big game and he was playing with her (she calls him the bastard). First making it seem just a bit of fun, then pouring compliments on her, lots of attention, lots of sexting, telling her his wife was a drunkard and that he only stayed with her to protect his kids. Then saying he loved only her and couldn't live without her, would kill himself if he couldn't have her, but that he couldn't share her with me. Then he'd break up the relationship (she said he'd done this a number of times) only to contact her again 3 or so weeks later and start again. She says she's trying to get him out of her head but that he still effects her.

I think she really thought this time he wouldn't contact her again - but he did.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Why hasn't she blocked his number and/or gotten a new number herself? This would seem to be a pretty simple way for her to avoid contact w/ OM.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> I think she was upset not at what my reaction might be but at her own reaction. As I mentioned before she says she feels he brainwashed her. She realises now it was all a big game and he was playing with her (she calls him the bastard). First making it seem just a bit of fun, then pouring compliments on her, lots of attention, lots of sexting, telling her his wife was a drunkard and that he only stayed with her to protect his kids. Then saying he loved only her and couldn't live without her, would kill himself if he couldn't have her, but that he couldn't share her with me. Then he'd break up the relationship (she said he'd done this a number of times) only to contact her again 3 or so weeks later and start again. She says she's trying to get him out of her head but that he still effects her.
> 
> I think she really thought this time he wouldn't contact her again - but he did.


If she is so worried about this then why haven't the two of you blocked his number and/ or changed her number so he can't just do this anymore (as it looks like he won't stop no matter how much you threaten and whom you tell)? 

I realize that it can be hard for the WS to just cut it off cold turkey, but she seems to be playing the victim card in this with her passing the blame onto him with her statements. She needs to remember that she was a willing participant and if he did it 3 times then she also allowed it to happen three times. She wanted to actively participate as no one can be bullied into these situations, so no matter how much he may have schmoozed, she wanted it and let it happen and is not so naive and innocent as she would like to portray (and her name calling I hope isn't just to cover the trail). I see louts of he dies, but what did she do, as I beleve that she is glossing that over and not telling you the full extent (generally one AP doesn't do all the bad mouthing of the spouse, they both do).


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

hopefully she'll start accepting some of the blame soon.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Our business that she runs has customers - but I do the accounts. What she doesn't know is that I am aware he went to see her there (from an audit trail), so he knows the business number and the mobile she uses for business. Since I'm still not sure this is really over I want to keep the option of scanning these numbers and the accounts. Also at the moment I know the numbers he uses - but he has at least two numbers and seems to change numbers regularly so I don't want any continuing relationship to go underground. 

However it does make sense to block from her main phone and then the business phone if he starts to use that. So will do that.

He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lon1 said:


> He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call.


Expose to his wife for now, and make it clear to him that, if he continues to pursue, you'll expose to his employer as well.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call.


Don't count on this. Many companies in this day and age, especially with good employees, will look the other way unless you can specifically show that he was using company resources, it is against company written policy, and they are somehow liked that could show liability for his actions. Otherwise they will politely tell you to pound sand with your confessions to them. They would rather state that what an employee does with their own free time is their business so long as it doesn't break the law and put them and the employee at risk for legal actions. Only few states recognize adultery, so most will care less about the extra curricular activities (and worst case scenario would just reprimand at best the employee for his actions and choices.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> Our business that she runs has customers - but I do the accounts. What she doesn't know is that I am aware he went to see her there (from an audit trail), so he knows the business number and the mobile she uses for business. Since I'm still not sure this is really over I want to keep the option of scanning these numbers and the accounts. Also at the moment I know the numbers he uses - but he has at least two numbers and seems to change numbers regularly so I don't want any continuing relationship to go underground.



I can see wanting to keep in on the low so that it doesn't go underground as that is a good idea. 

I am concerned that if she is doing and has done things that you know about yet she has not disclosed, you are still in the dark to the truth and you will never be able to heal and move on from this until she reveals all. Are you not the least bit concerned that she is supposedly coming around to R means but she is hiding lots of things that you have proof for. That is not a good foundation to be building from, she needs to fully come clean.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Don't count on this. Many companies in this day and age, especially with good employees, will look the other way unless you can specifically show that he was using company resources, it is against company written policy, and they are somehow liked that could show liability for his actions. Otherwise they will politely tell you to pound sand with your confessions to them. They would rather state that what an employee does with their own free time is their business so long as it doesn't break the law and put them and the employee at risk for legal actions. Only few states recognize adultery, so most will care less about the extra curricular activities (and worst case scenario would just reprimand at best the employee for his actions and choices.


If sounds as if they may have been or may be doing business together. If that's the case, I'd have to believe that OM's employer would look upon his activities in a very negative light.


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

I think you should write HIM and let him know what you will be doing if he tries one more time to contact your wife. Tell him in plain words exactly how it is all going to go down with just one more attempt to speak to her.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

youkiddingme said:


> I think you should write HIM and let him know what you will be doing if he tries one more time to contact your wife. Tell him in plain words exactly how it is all going to go down with just one more attempt to speak to her.


I wouldn't tip my hand, and if it is perceived as a threat and the OM is fearful then it could be considered as such and he now has written verifiable proof of intent.

Also, if like Gus has speculated he has business dealings with their business, it could then be taken back to his company and negatively affect their bottom line and business reputation. 

Having said these things I wouldn't suggest him to do so. He might be better to consult a lawyer and see what he can do personally and business related to stop this and get it in writing and would be a better suggestion.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

youkiddingme said:


> I think you should write HIM and let him know what you will be doing if he tries one more time to contact your wife. Tell him in plain words exactly how it is all going to go down with just one more attempt to speak to her.


Bad idea IMO. Informing OM w/ regard to intent just gives him time to mitigate the impact. He could also work to intercept any communication sent to his wife via e-mail, FB message, snail mail, phone call, etc. Just expose. 

And, actually, if OM's children are grown, this gives you a possible third avenue of exposure. Maybe something like wife -> employer -> kids.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call.


What are you waiting for? What about his wife?

Expose him ASAP, first to his wife, then to the company, to his "FB-friends", whatever, put the story on cheaterville dot com...
Don't warn you wife at all. It's between you and him.
Don't tell him to stay away or you will expose him: just do it. Destroy him.

And don't be so ready to tell your wife you are going to forgive her. She must earn it with patience, consistence, perseverance, humility, self reflection, soul searching...

Your default position must be divorce... unless she manages to change your mind putting the needed work, the hugest effort of her life.


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> *Expose to his wife for now, and make it clear to him that, if he continues to pursue, you'll expose to his employer as well.*



*This^*

:iagree:


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

sounds like she's upset over him leaving the country then she gets mad at him and tells you about the text which she's already deleted that wonder how much she texted him back I would pull up text history from phone provider
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> I think she was upset not at what my reaction might be but at her own reaction. As I mentioned before she says she feels he brainwashed her. She realises now it was all a big game and he was playing with her (she calls him the bastard). First making it seem just a bit of fun, then pouring compliments on her, lots of attention, lots of sexting, telling her his wife was a drunkard and that he only stayed with her to protect his kids. Then saying he loved only her and couldn't live without her, would kill himself if he couldn't have her, but that he couldn't share her with me. Then he'd break up the relationship (she said he'd done this a number of times) only to contact her again 3 or so weeks later and start again. She says she's trying to get him out of her head but that he still effects her.
> 
> I think she really thought this time he wouldn't contact her again - but he did.


 My take on all this:

1. You are still plan B. 
2. She was not brainwashed. She is a mature smart adult who made a choice to cheat. This is all her fault, not his. She is the one playing a game between her lover and you. You are being played and it is all in the cheater's manual.
3. Calling him the bastard!!!! Oh how cute. My wife did the same thing, called the XOM names after getting caught, but she continued to have sex with him for another year or more. DON'T BUY IT.
4. And oh the drama of, "he only wanted me", "his wife is a drunk", "he threatened to kill himself", "he would break up with me", etc, etc. Yet she took him back each and every time. Your wife is so full of it, it is really beyond words. Look at what you have written. 
5. Your wife really, truely, honestly, thought he wouldn't contact her again. And you believe her? 


Don't tell your wife, but expose this to the OM's family. Send the OM's wife the proof.

You are giving your wife way too much credit. 

Cheater's lie. They freaken lie about everything.

If you want to R down the road fine, right now you are still getting lies and until that stops and she shows true remorse and repentance, file for D and expose this.

You have to risk ending your M in order for you to have a M.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

anytime the W abuses OM, -> strong feelings 

she is angry that he left her


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> anytime the W abuses OM, -> strong feelings
> 
> she is angry that he left her


exactly! get the text thread from the cellular provider!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

I have access to the phone account. She did not send any texts in reply (from any phone), so at least on that I know she is telling the truth.
Unfortunately I only have contact details for the OM and his work - not his wife details so can't expose him that way -although I'd like to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Search his address online.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> I have access to the phone account. She did not send any texts in reply (from any phone), so at least on that I know she is telling the truth.
> Unfortunately I only have contact details for the OM and his work - not his wife details so can't expose him that way -although I'd like to.


From any phone that you know of! 

Just do a Google search for OM'S name + horrid, drunkard wife and that should be good enough to find her and all the family information, right??? As he wouldn't lie to your wife about her attributes and habits in any way!!! :rofl:


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> I have access to the phone account. She did not send any texts in reply (from any phone), so at least on that I know she is telling the truth.
> Unfortunately I only have contact details for the OM and his work - not his wife details so can't expose him that way -although I'd like to.


Lon,

You should not rest until you find that contact information. Don't make excuses. Trust me, you have enough now to be able to find it, even if you have to hire a PI to help you.

Make that POS regret he chose your wife.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

There's always tomorrow Lon. And remember when tomorrow comes it will be today so tomorrow will still be there. Thank God for tomorrow.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

don't worry I'm on the case


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call."

Why are you even waiting on this?

Blow this POS out of the water with his work, his BW, and as many other people in his life that you can.

Give him something else to worry about than trying to seduce your WW back into the A.

If he is scrambling around trying to save his own worthless a** from losing his job and M, then he will not have time to pursue your WW.

In fact, he will probably throw her under the bus while trying to save himself...then your foolish WW will see what he really thinks of her, and that should help break this addiction she has to him.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> An update....
> 
> Yesterday my WW called me from the car on the way home very upset. I asked her if it was the OM in contact with her and she said yes. When she got home we talked and I asked him what he'd done. She said he'd sent a text asking how she was and saying he was going abroad for work.
> 
> ...


How do you know that was the truth if she deleted the text? Weird


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> "He has a senior position in an international engineering company. I know how these companies work, if I tell his Manager and his HR he will be in serious trouble, so I have an escalation route if there is just one more text or call."
> 
> Why are you even waiting on this?
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:


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## Stevenj (Mar 26, 2014)

Sounds like the affair is going on leave while he goes abroad. She has the gaul to get comforted by you because she is getting dumped for a short time.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

What a weak minded, loser I was.. Its a shame I didn't have the courage and ballz I have today back then.. 

Why do I say that ? 

Because I see so much of me in what your posting now.

@ Lon1, you are going to fall into a false sense of security and then get slapped in the face with some hard reality. It is going to OVERWHELM YOU... 

Your Soon to be Ex wife is going to crush whatever little spirit you have left.. When he comes back from his little trip your wife is going to show him more loving then she has EVER shown you.. 

She will leave you so hard and fast you will not have any clue how to handle this or where to turn.. 

Hopefully your over weight like I was and you will lose some pounds.. I lost 50 LBS over a 90 day period and I lost a total of 85 LBS in all.. Its over a year and I still kept it off thank goodness.

The good thing is when the new hardtohandle/Lon1 comes around hopefully we both can successfully convince this new person that their intended tactics will not work. Hopefully we will be able to instill the courage into them that we lacked to attempt to save our marriages.. 

Lon1, this is WAR and your Gandhi approach isn't going to work and never will. 

You know you did something right when you tell someone the story and they go *"OH Sh1t, NO, You really did that?"* 

Make this guy life *UTTER CHAOS*, like he has done to yours.. Go to his house and ask his wife politely if she can convince her husband to stop fvcking your wife.. 

Look unless she is going to rake you over the coal financially *( which she is not )* you have nothing to sweat.. Even I eventually said "_*Fvck it"*_ and decided I would rather implode then deal with my Ex anymore. 

Only when I got aggressive did I see any positive responses.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You can put him on cheaterville.com in the UK now and send his boss the link anonymously if you have the courage.

She wanted you to wear a condom because she either caught something or thought she had.

All the other crap is as someone was posted, just excuses to not have to sleep with you.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

I now have all contact information for the OM and have told my wife that I intend to visit his wife and expose him. 

She says she is not in contact with him and that it is all over. (All the information I have suggests she is telling the truth, but it is possible she is still not telling me everything - but I don't think so). She says she is very sorry for what happened and that she was wrong and would never had done it if she had realised how much it would hurt me and affect her marriage. She asked me what it would be like if I went ahead with the Divorce. I said it would all be over and I'd probably find someone else, but she would still have access to our daughter of course. When I said this she was extremely upset (she has repeated it to me so it is clearly still very much on her mind). We have both agreed we are going to try and make our marriage work if we can.

Our sex life is more active, but she still does not seem to get orgasm. When I asked her if he was still in her head, she said yes just a little bit but she was trying to get it out. I asked her what the 'little bit' was - she said that she still feels I don't listen to het about what turns her on and when we have sex she imagines him and he was always doing exactly what she wanted.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So... If you take this...



GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like it's only "over" because OM ended it and that he could have her back at any time w/ little more than a phone call.
> 
> In other words, it's not "over" at all, at least not for your WW. If it were, she'd have already changed her phone number and simultaneously blocked his. Get ready to start sharing her again just as soon as OM decides to call her back.


...and this...



Lon1 said:


> I asked her what the 'little bit' was - she said that she still feels I don't listen to het about what turns her on and *when we have sex she imagines him and he was always doing exactly what she wanted.*


...what do you get...?


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> She asked me what it would be like if I went ahead with the Divorce. I said it would all be over and I'd probably find someone else, but she would still have access to our daughter of course. When I said this she was extremely upset (*she has repeated it to me* so it is clearly still very much on her mind).


Exactly what were her words when she repeated it to you? That you would find someone else or what?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> she still feels I don't listen to het about what turns her on and when we have sex she imagines him and he was always doing exactly what she wanted.


What are you doing about that? My DH has NEVER gotten taken care of before he makes sure I've gotten mine first. NEVER. In 35 years.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> when we have sex she imagines him and he was always doing exactly what she wanted.


Wow, blame shifting while explaining your sexual inadequacy. Nope, she was wrong and I don't care who comes in and says she has a right to explain how she feels about your sex life. 
She could have said the exact same thing like this:


> she still feels I don't listen to her about what turns her on


There was and is *ABSOLUTELY* no need to emasculate you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

On the other hand, if they are ever going to have a relationship in which both of them are safe to tell the truth, he could hear what she has to say and ask himself if she's telling the truth or just in a fog. If it's the truth, that she's not been satisfied before this, he can accept that she is trying to be 100% honest with him so they can improve things.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> On the other hand, if they are ever going to have a relationship in which both of them are safe to tell the truth, he could hear what she has to say and ask himself if she's telling the truth or just in a fog. If it's the truth, that she's not been satisfied before this, he can accept that she is trying to be 100% honest with him so they can improve things.


 I didn't say she should have not told him she thinks about the man. I didn't say she couldn't tell him she is having problems because he is not listening to her needs. 

Yes, I knew the 100% honesty argument would come up. It's a bogus argument. You've been in multiple threads talking about people showing temperance. She could have said the same thing without emasculating him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> On the other hand, if they are ever going to have a relationship in which both of them are safe to tell the truth, he could hear what she has to say and ask himself if she's telling the truth or just in a fog. If it's the truth, that she's not been satisfied before this, he can accept that she is trying to be 100% honest with him so they can improve things.


This does make a certain amount of sense, and I can agree with it, to a point.

But damn.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How could she have said it otherwise? He asked her a question, she answered honestly.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> I now have all contact information for the OM and have told my wife that I intend to visit his wife and expose him.
> 
> *If she is not trying to dissuade you from doing so this is a good sign.*
> 
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> How could she have said it otherwise? He asked her a question, she answered honestly.


I outlined the part I felt was unnecessary in the first part you responded to. We are about to go in circles because he said "she doesn't orgasm." I said my piece.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> How could she have said it otherwise? He asked her a question, she answered honestly.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing w/ you on this, but she could have left out that last bit. Honesty can be a club, but it doesn't have to be a club that's studded w/ spikes, wrapped w/ barbed wire, covered w/ gasoline, and set ablaze. 

But, then again, we're getting OP's second-hand version of their interaction, so who knows what she actually said. What he's shared w/ us is likely his interpretation one way or the other. Moving on...

Lon, how comfortable would you be sharing details regarding this...



Lon1 said:


> Our sex life is more active, but she still does not seem to get orgasm. When I asked her if he was still in her head, she said yes just a little bit but she was trying to get it out. I asked her what the 'little bit' was - *she said that she still feels I don't listen to het about what turns her on* and when we have sex she imagines him and he was always doing exactly what she wanted.


...? This would seem to be _crucial_.

How open do you feel she has been/is being in communicating her desires to you? Is she clearly telling you what she needs/wants or is she expecting that you'll somehow be able to figure it out sans verbal cues...?

What has she asked of you that you're not willing or not able to do?


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Firstly, I completely agree that in a relationship the guy should try and get his partner to come first (because she can have multiple orgasms) and so both can get pleasure for longer. The problem seems to be that my wife seems to be very specific about what turns her on (' touch me there - longer - don't jump around - do this - no that feels like you are just wiping my skin - don't touch me there it does nothing for me). She says the OM always listened to her and over the time when they hooked up over the internet he studied exactly what she wanted - listened to her and gave it to her.

Each time we have sex I'm trying to do as she wants - but she just doesn't seem to get turned on. (I should say that for most of our marriage she has got worked up and orgasmed lots and I've never had problems like this with other lovers). She says to me that when the sex started to hurt (which could of course be the time she started the EA and so was less easy to arouse) she lost the 'butterfly feeling' she had when we first got married. She says it's gone and she's not sure she will ever get it back.

I think there are always things to learn and hey it should be fun learning them right? but at the moment it's very difficult. She tells me I ought to go away and read some manuals and watch some video's! I think if she's been my only partner and this was the early days of our marriage I would put it down to inexperience - but I don't think I'm that bad!


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> Firstly, I completely agree that in a relationship the guy should try and get his partner to come first (because she can have multiple orgasms) and so both can get pleasure for longer. The problem seems to be that my wife seems to be very specific about what turns her on (' touch me there - longer - don't jump around - do this - no that feels like you are just wiping my skin - don't touch me there it does nothing for me). She says the OM always listened to her and over the time when they hooked up over the internet he studied exactly what she wanted - listened to her and gave it to her.
> 
> Each time we have sex I'm trying to do as she wants - but she just doesn't seem to get turned on. (I should say that for most of our marriage she has got worked up and orgasmed lots and I've never had problems like this with other lovers). She says to me that when the sex started to hurt (which could of course be the time she started the EA and so was less easy to arouse) she lost the 'butterfly feeling' she had when we first got married. She says it's gone and she's not sure she will ever get it back.
> 
> I think there are always things to learn and hey it should be fun learning them right? but at the moment it's very difficult. She tells me I ought to go away and read some manuals and watch some video's! I think if she's been my only partner and this was the early days of our marriage I would put it down to inexperience - but I don't think I'm that bad!


Lon1, its amazing to me how consistently you are able to carefully study the situation and reach the wrong conclusion.

Let's go over a few things you seem to have missed.

Your wife had hot passionate sex with another man. 

Normal men get really pissed off when their wife does this (normal women get pissed off when their husband does this, too, btw).

Normal men who are able to look themselves in the mirror and try to list out their strengths and weaknesses as men, when faced with a partner who hikes up her skirt for some other guy, decide that they deserve better in life.

Some portion of men are either unable to look themselves in the mirror, or, having done so, reach the conclusion that, no, they don't deserve and better than an unfaithful woman.

That's where you're at.

But, God bless you, you at least say "well, okay, I'll stay with her and not really make her suffer any consequences for her getting plowed like a field by some other farmer, but she'd better let me plow her now and then, too."

Lon1, with all due respect, your wife should be reaching orgasm purely from relief that you didn't show her the door. Or at least faking it so good that you feel like Casanova.

Faced with yet another ego-check, you are desperately eager to please her, again. You accept her excuses, again. You let her explain in detail how the other man touched her just right, in ways you can't.

At some point, you stop being a victim and transition over into the "willing participant" column, and sympathy turns to pity. I have to think you're on your way to a full recovery of your marriage that will not bring you much happiness or fulfillment going forward. You've given up everything for your wife, including your self respect. In return, you get churning turmoil in your guts, and a wife who is having sex with you but thinks about another man, WHILE YOU'RE HAVING SEX WITH HER.

AND SHE TELLS YOU THIS!

I do not envy you for the life you choose to live.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> Firstly, I completely agree that in a relationship the guy should try and get his partner to come first (because she can have multiple orgasms) and so both can get pleasure for longer. The problem seems to be that my wife seems to be very specific about what turns her on (' touch me there - longer - don't jump around - do this - no that feels like you are just wiping my skin - don't touch me there it does nothing for me). She says the OM always listened to her and over the time when they hooked up over the internet he studied exactly what she wanted - listened to her and gave it to her.


Wow, so she has told you he was better on multiple occasions? Your wife needs to learn about tact and empathy.

It's funny, in both examples she starts off okay and then basically says "you suck compared to my affair parent." Sorry, to me, it isn't 100% honesty it is downright mean and emasculating.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> She says to me that when the sex started to hurt (which could of course be the time she started the EA and so was less easy to arouse) she lost the 'butterfly feeling' she had when we first got married. She says it's gone and she's not sure she will ever get it back.


So I see two things. It sounds like she was saying that he remembered the stuff she told her so that eventually it was all being done the right way with no instruction needed from her? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding? If this is so, she's frustrated that you haven't caught on to what works and what doesn't, which would make sense. At least to me, a woman. That you don't care enough to remember what works.

But the butterfly feeling, could go two ways. If she's talking about the PEA chemicals, you two are in dire need of some learning about the biophysical experiences the body goes through and why and when these butterflies occur. They don't stay in the body more than 4 or 5 years, tops, when the body stops creating the chemical once you've been together long enough to procreate (in caveman days). Once it's gone, you're just left with love and learning to REPLACE the butterflies with compassion and purposeful passion. She needs to hear this and understand it. 

I have a bet that she was FEELING the PEA butterflies with him because, well, it was a new relationship, under the 5-year PEA umbrella, and when she turns back to you...nada. So she is unrealistically and ignorantly assuming that YOU two should be having those butterflies. Again, she needs to hear this and understand it. 

I'd find a specialist therapist who gets this stuff (check them out first) and who can explain it to her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NotLikeYou said:


> But, God bless you, you at least say "well, okay, I'll stay with her and not really make her suffer any consequences for her getting plowed like a field by some other farmer, but she'd better let me plow her now and then, too."
> 
> Lon1, with all due respect, your wife should be reaching orgasm purely from relief that you didn't show her the door. Or at least faking it so good that you feel like Casanova.


:iagree:

What consequences HAS she had? Did she ever fear you'd leave her?


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## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

Lon1;8764234 The problem seems to be that my wife seems to be very specific about what turns her on (' touch me there - longer - don't jump around - do this - no that feels like you are just wiping my skin - don't touch me there it does nothing for me). She says the OM always listened to her and over the time when they hooked up over the internet he studied exactly what she wanted - listened to her and gave it to her.
Each time we have sex I'm trying to do as she wants - but she just doesn't seem to get turned on. (I should say that for most of our marriage she has got worked up and orgasmed lots and I've never had problems like this with other lovers). She says to me that when the sex started to hurt (which could of course be the time she started the EA and so was less easy to arouse) she lost the 'butterfly feeling' she had when we first got married. She says it's gone and she's not sure she will ever get it back.
I think there are always things to learn and hey it should be fun learning them right? but at the moment it's very difficult. She tells me I ought to go away and read some manuals and watch some video's! I think if she's been my only partner and this was the early days of our marriage I would put it down to inexperience - but I don't think I'm that bad![/QUOTE said:


> FWIW, if you haven;t read "The Sex God Method" by Daniel Rose, doing so may be your best resource.
> 
> On one hand I get that you should pay attention to what your wife says she wants in bed, however, that doesn;t seem to be working. The reason I belief is that she still has the memories of what she and the OM did in bed and she is trying to recreate that experience with you.
> 
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I agree with therapy as turnera stated. He can't change anything if he is battling a ghost. I don't believe, for one second, the OM listened to what she wanted better than OP. I believe this is an issue he has with sex. He feels inadequate when she doesn't orgasm, she knows it is an issue with him and she knows how to play him with his self blame.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon, see if you can get this book. I'm pretty sure that if you and she start using this book of invitations, your entire sex life will turn upside down and POSOM will be forgotten in quick time.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

But if there is still no attraction there, then the sex, no matter how new and different will still be hum drum sex for her if she doesn't build a connection.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> Firstly, I completely agree that in a relationship the guy should try and get his partner to come first (because she can have multiple orgasms) and so both can get pleasure for longer. The problem seems to be that my wife seems to be very specific about what turns her on (' touch me there - longer - don't jump around - do this - no that feels like you are just wiping my skin - don't touch me there it does nothing for me). She says the OM always listened to her and over the time when they hooked up over the internet he studied exactly what she wanted - listened to her and gave it to her.
> 
> Each time we have sex I'm trying to do as she wants - but she just doesn't seem to get turned on. (I should say that for most of our marriage she has got worked up and orgasmed lots and I've never had problems like this with other lovers). She says to me that when the sex started to hurt (which could of course be the time she started the EA and so was less easy to arouse) she lost the 'butterfly feeling' she had when we first got married. She says it's gone and she's not sure she will ever get it back.
> 
> I think there are always things to learn and hey it should be fun learning them right? but at the moment it's very difficult. She tells me I ought to go away and read some manuals and watch some video's! I think if she's been my only partner and this was the early days of our marriage I would put it down to inexperience - but I don't think I'm that bad!


Call me crazy Lon, but I think you need to be candid with her about the sex life too. She needs to know that she also sucks at sex. Why do I say that? Because if my wife constantly told me every little thing I had to do and not do during the entire encounter, it would be sh!tty sex. Dude, you are getting garbage sex from your wife. SHE SUCKS IN BED!!! Remember that, and don't take her sh!t anymore. Give her the laundry list of everything she does that makes your sexual encounters feel like you're wading thru hot garbage. And then I'd tell her that if she doesn't up her game in the sack, then she's sacked...

You need to grow some balls and put her in her place.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Wow, so she has told you he was better on multiple occasions? Your wife needs to learn about tact and empathy.
> 
> It's funny, in both examples she starts off okay and then basically says "you suck compared to my affair parent." Sorry, to me, it isn't 100% honesty it is downright mean and emasculating.


Exactly.

She gets points for being honest, but she gets negative points for her lack of empathy in relaying that honesty.

It's one thing for you to suspect your wife is thinking about the OM while in bed with you, it's another for her to admit it. I don't think I could stomach that as a BS.

She could have just said - I'm doing my best to push the thoughts of him out of my head. I'll get there, and I hope you'll be patient with me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IS she doing it constantly, Lon? Or has it come up from time to time and now because you ASKED her?


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

She does say it constantly, and I really do listen to what she say s and feel I am responding to her wishes. The problem seems to be that I think she is replaying sex with the OM in her head and expecting me to almost follow the exact script - so you can see her mood change immediately I don't do something and she just lays back as if to say - here we go again. 

It's incredibly frustrating. She wants to have sex every day (which is great) but I think we are both running out of patience that this situation doesn't seem to be changing. I'll read the books (my first look at them talks about stuff I do already, but I'm sure there is other good ideas), and try asking her explicitly again what she wants - but to be honest I think she will again repeat what she's said and I feel as if that's what I'm doing!!

She does think I'll leave her - today she told me that she is very depressed and that these thoughts of divorce and loosing her daughter are making her feel unable to work.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lon1,

I'm not saying that pleasing her in bed won't be important somewhere down the line; and I can understand your urge for hysterical bonding. But I think you're placating her; putting the cart before the horse. 

What should be happening now, is that she should have motivation to want to help *YOU* heal. Both sexually and emotionally. 

Don't lose sight of the importance of *HER* doing the heavy lifting. She should be trying to please *YOU* in bed.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

lon your wife fvked around and you're left with insults because she's not getting off?

ugh.

she should be doing everything and then some to help you heal. but poor baby, you're not touching her right? she's damn lucky you're touching her cheating ass at all!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

cool12 said:


> lon your wife fvked around and you're left with insults because she's not getting off?
> 
> ugh.
> 
> she should be doing everything and then some to help you heal. but poor baby, you're not touching her right? she's damn lucky you're touching her cheating ass at all!


Yeah, kinda what I was trying to say cool12.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lon1 said:


> She does say it constantly,


So she's been saying this constantly your entire marriage, or just since she started cheating?


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

'So she's been saying this constantly your entire marriage, or just since she started cheating?'

For most of our marriage we talked - she said what she liked - I did it - I said what I liked - she did it - we tried new things and overall it was good sex.

Then she started to say that sex was hurting and she was uncomfortable - so we had less sex because it wasn't pleasant for both of us. Then she said she wanted more sex but she felt like she always had to ask for it. This was all really about a year ago. 

When we were discussing the affair one of the things she said to me was that she had a high sex drive and she felt I couldn't satisfy her and that she'd told me this and I should have realised that I was driving her to find sex elsewhere.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> 'So she's been saying this constantly your entire marriage, or just since she started cheating?'
> 
> For most of our marriage we talked - she said what she liked - I did it - I said what I liked - she did it - we tried new things and overall it was good sex.
> 
> ...


Okay, let me ask a question before I make my comment.

What did you BOTH do about the pain?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> 'So she's been saying this constantly your entire marriage, or just since she started cheating?'
> 
> For most of our marriage we talked - she said what she liked - I did it - I said what I liked - she did it - we tried new things and overall it was good sex.
> 
> ...


So which is it? If the sex hurts that much how come she was asking for more?

She suddenly develops a high sex drive a year ago? What are the chances that she was already cheating by then. She's already gaslighting and blameshifting.

Now you're trying to have sex and she's disconnecting, why? The same reason she disconnected before when the sex was "hurting". Did the sex hurt with OM?

She's afraid of D, so she's giving you sex, except she doesn't really enjoy it with you. Then she keeps you off balance by giving sex on one hand, then putting the onus on you to fix things because she's not "satisfied", now you're in a tizzy trying to fix the sex and do it the way she wants or how OM did.

Man this lady should be moving heaven and earth to help you heal. Why are you putting up with this nonsense?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Not sure if I missed a post or not, but have you exposed the OM and the affair in general?

If the affair is really over and your wife is really wanting to make things work, she will not stand in the way of exposure. 

Read the other threads around the CWI section and see if your wife is 'truly remorseful'.

It will take strong action from you to get things back towards the right track. It might never make it, but it will be a start.

Good luck and keep strong.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> So which is it? If the sex hurts that much how come she was asking for more?
> 
> She suddenly develops a high sex drive a year ago? What are the chances that she was already cheating by then. She's already gaslighting and blameshifting.
> 
> ...


LOL. Well, there is always the direct method. This is basically where I was heading.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

she said the pain started when we had our daughter 6 years ago - but at that time it was more uncomfortable than pain and the doctors said that nothing was wrong. Then it was last year when she said it was really painful and for me it was uncomfortable too (the doctor later told me this was lack of lubrication)


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> she said the pain started when we had our daughter 6 years ago - but at that time it was more uncomfortable than pain and the doctors said that nothing was wrong. Then it was last year when she said it was really painful and for me it was uncomfortable too (the doctor later told me this was lack of lubrication)


Not flaming you buddy, I wish the best for you and your children but I want you to see you didn't drive her to do anything. That is why I asked so which one is it?

She told you the sex hurt, maybe it did for whatever reason but that seed was planted in your head. I tell you I couldn't have sex knowing my partner was in pain because of it.

Sex is supposed to be for pleasure not a mechanical chore. It hurt, so you may have backed off, as you should have done, she went to the doctor, maybe it got fixed. Then she starts asking for it again, with a sudden high sex drive, so we are only talking a couple of months, supposedly when she was asking for it so much she had to go and get it elsewhere.

My point is there my naturally have been causes for your decline in sex, but don't let her blame you for pushing her into OM's bed. She needs to stop being the victim because you are. You're immersed in how OM did it or thinking whether she's thinking about OM when you're together. She just lies there while you do your thing. She's messing with your head. She doesn't want IC, so right know she's basically banging you ignorant.

You go to MC and find out why she did what she did. You talk about it. You stop being lead by the nose and letting her dictate your R. Right now it's you rewarding her by sending texts and being lovey dovey, but your head is still buried in the sand.

Don't rugsweep!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> she said the pain started when we had our daughter 6 years ago - but at that time it was more uncomfortable than pain and the doctors said that nothing was wrong.


Okay, so she never told you this pain/discomfort until last year or did you know before? How serious was the discomfort and how long before she told you?



> Then it was last year when she said it was really painful and for me it was uncomfortable too (the doctor later told me this was lack of lubrication)


Okay, when did you find out about lubrication? 

If you ever feel bad about questions, please let me know. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I want to explain something, so you'll fully understand my position. It may not be right, but when you are in the middle of this garbage, you rarely see clearly.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> It's incredibly frustrating. She wants to have sex every day (which is great) but I think we are both running out of patience that this situation doesn't seem to be changing.
> 
> 
> She does think I'll leave her - today she told me that she is very depressed and that these thoughts of divorce and loosing her daughter are making her feel unable to work.


The truth of the matter is that you aren't going to leave her. Divorce isn't on the table- heck, it's not even in the building.

But finally, finally, we see some repercussions for your wife- she is feeling VERY depressed, to the point.... that... she feels unable to work...... No biggie, you can pick up her slack.

Yep, that there, ladies and gentlemen, is a CONSEQUENCE! 

She is feeling so bad about her infidelity that her cuckolded spouse can TRY HARDER. And he will. 

In your posts, you are always eager to explain her side. What she says, possible causes of her "pain," her reasons that YOU drove her into the arms of the better lover, and so on, and so forth.

The lack of "Lon1" is striking. You should be feeling all kinds of emotions, none of them good, but they either don't exist, or you are bottling them up really well.

All snark and BS aside, I think you need really a lot of counseling. I hope you can get it, because you seem to be in a really unhealthy place even compared to CWI poster standards.

And to digress slightly to answer Noble1's question, 

No, OM has not been exposed. That might result in the wife feeling some actual real consequences for her actions, and, folks, that's just not in the cards.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Lon, ask yourself a question: do you want to spend the rest of your days trying - via trial and error - to learn how to orgasm a women who had somebody else in mind? 

If the answer is yes, please ignore the rest and also all other posts here. Otherwise, let me tell you a little secret (so will any stupid marriage and sex for dummies in 21days book do): for a women what's in her head comes first, the mechanical sequence of actions in bed is always second. Is she's into you, she'll be happy even if the technique is not 100% perfect. If she is thinking about the other man, even with perfect technique (apply pressure to the point 3 inches left from her belly button for 3.5 seconds) you are no more than a vibrator.

If you do want to do something about it, really do, read all suggestions here. I'll summarize them as: do the 180... not 180 described in CWI as a way to communicate with your ww( although this may be involved). By 180 I mean acting in a way that is totally opposite to what are you doing now.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> 'So she's been saying this constantly your entire marriage, or just since she started cheating?'
> 
> For most of our marriage we talked - she said what she liked - I did it - I said what I liked - she did it - we tried new things and overall it was good sex.
> 
> ...


Lon, this sounds like a history rewrite in progress.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Just read through this thread 

Jesus Chr!st. Are you making love to a football coach? Touch me here. Not there. Lick me here, don't kiss me there. No! Stop! This position. Turn over. Since when is sex supposed to be so much work? Are you getting any goddam enjoyment out if it?

And then she says at the end, meh. I'm still thinking of the other guy. 

I don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Just read through this thread
> 
> Jesus Chr!st. Are you making love to a football coach? Touch me here. Not there. Lick me here, don't kiss me there. No! Stop! This position. Turn over. Since when is sex supposed to be so much work? Are you getting any goddam enjoyment out if it?
> 
> ...


Sounds a little entitled doesn't it?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lon

Your wife should be grateful that you are even having sex with her right now.

Wanna know how to turn your wife on?

Call the OMW and give her all the details.
On the same day call the OM's HR dept. and make a formal complaint that he was banging your wife on company time.

Then sit back and watch your WW phone explode.

Then take her right there. While you are having sex with her tell her if she ever cheats on you again you promise to make her life a living hell.

Only when you show her consequences for her horrible decisions will she understand what she has done to you, the family and your marriage.

She could have asked you for a divorce Lon......

Instead she chose to cheat. She has cheated on your for years.

Get tough. And clean up her mess.

HM


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Lon1 said:


> She does think I'll leave her - today she told me that she is very depressed and that these thoughts of divorce and loosing her daughter are making her feel unable to work.


AoooGAh AoooooGAh Alert! Alert! Danger Will Robinson!

She is PLAYING you, and has been all along. She has to keep you on the hook until either her boyfriend returns, or she finds a new one. But she doesn't like you much. She's saying sorry but those are just words because she's not actually remorseful.

You can't fix something, no matter how damn hard you try, that the other person is breaking over and over again. SHE is the one who broke the marriage. SHE is the one who should be working to fix it. Instead, she is telling you everything she thinks you did wrong, shifting the blame to you, making you do all the work while she doesn't have to change one bit.

And now, she is prepping the situation for her to not have to support you financially after the breakup. You pumped all your savings from all your hard work into her business (which she used as a base for her cheating!) and now she's trying to weasel out of repaying you for it. And blaming it on you to boot!

She doesn't want you, or love you. She just likes having a place to live and not having to share your daughter's time. She is bored of sex with you, has managed to put the blame for that entirely on you.

It's often said that women need to feel love to want sex, and men need to get sex to feel love. You are trying to communicate your love by doing your best to satisfy her sexually, which is doomed to failure because she feels no love for you, therefore doesn't want sex with you and can't enjoy it.

Until she accepts her responsibility for her actions and starts doing at least as much work to fix the marriage as you do, there's no future there.

Cut her loose, sell the business and split the proceeds, both of you find new employment and arrange to share your daughter equally. Begin to heal instead of being a doormat your wife keeps stomping on for the rest of your life.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> Then it was last year when she said it was really painful and for me it was uncomfortable too (the doctor later told me this was lack of lubrication)


 I bet she has no trouble lubricating when she is having sex with the other man. 

Here is the rub, the fact that she feels butterflies with the other man that she does not feel with you is normal. There is a newness brain drug that is similar to cocaine that stops being produced after you are a few years into a relationship. There is nothing that you can do about that. Hopefully as the relationship matures, other things will bind you as a couple when that newness brain drug stops being produced. Cheaters ask the impossible when they expect you to compete against new men, without realizing that in a committed relationship you should not have to be competing with antoher man for the affection of your spouse. The truth be told, I bet if you went to a bar and took someone home and had sex with her, that sex would blow away the sex that you are now getting from your wife, but so what? You are either in a monogamous realtionship or you are not. 

Being honest, most people would like to cheat, and from what I hear affair sex is some of the best sex you can have, but that is not the deal that you made when you took your vows. There is good and bad with marraige. Cheaters want to cake eat and take only the good part of being married while still having the good part of being single. It does not work that way.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, that is what he needs to realizes TRy. Sure, it is hard for the cheater to give up the high. There are many threads detailing the "addiction" to the newness or the fog. 


Lon, your thread is the only one I have encountered, during a reconciliation attempt, where the cheater is repeatedly and actively throwing the affair partner in the betrayed spouse's face.

I'm not talking about secretly calling, meeting, texting, or emailing and getting caught. Yes, that happens all over this website during reconciliation. I'm talking about the audacity to actually say "You don't measure up to the affair partner in bed or my mind."


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Lon, your thread is the only one I have encountered, during a reconciliation attempt, where the cheater is repeatedly and actively throwing the affair partner in the betrayed spouse's face.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about secretly calling, meeting, texting, or emailing and getting caught. Yes, that happens all over this website during reconciliation. I'm talking about the audacity to actually say "You don't measure up to the affair partner in bed or my mind."



no doubt. 
that she even says his name to you tell me she's not too remorseful. most WS in R feel ashamed when the AP is mentioned and would rather not have to talk about said person ever again. 

your W compares you sexually to him and that is beyond cruel. i'd tell her she's welcome to tell you what she likes and ffs, if you're not doing it right let her do it, but the AP should not be mentioned while you're being intimate.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm not talking about secretly calling, meeting, texting, or emailing and getting caught. Yes, that happens all over this website during reconciliation. I'm talking about the audacity to actually say "You don't measure up to the affair partner in bed or my mind."


It's blatant abuse.
Even if we were talking about a past, legit man she had a relationship with it would be abusive anyway but being her OM she's talking about well... this is unaceptable.

I'd divorce her for this solely.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Lon,

This whole thread makes me very sad. She is using you, abusing you, mentally torturing you, yet you are so concerned with trying to please HER in bed while she barks out orders how to do it (all the while, she is comparing you to the other man.)

Don't you see, as long as she is thinking of HIM while making love to YOU, the sex will never be "right" or good. Frankly, I don't think she's attracted to you the way she was attracted to him, and I'm not really sure that can be fixed. She's either into you or she's not. I think it's the latter.

I think you have gotten GREAT advice here. Are you going to listen to it and do something about it? Or just keep being her doormat?

Personally, unless you DEAL WITH her affair instead of rugsweeping it, I think it's time to pack it up, move along. Throw her a$$ to the curb and make her pay you back the money she "stole" from you to start up her business.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

After reading all that has been posted, I've decided there isn't much left to tell you at this point that everyone hasn't beating you over the head with.

Lon1, I hope you realize one day that you don't have to accept this stuff. That there are women who would be happy to be married to you.

Sept 2012 I caught my Ex, April 2013 she moved out and in with the POSOM. 2014 between now and Sept I am remodeling the house and the new G.F. is moving in with her kids.. 

My poor G.F. was just complaining to me that years ago little girls would say look its Barbie ( like in the doll ) and they don't now because she put on some weight.. I said its okay babe to console her.. But the reality is inside I laughed because she is that beautiful.. I can't go anywhere without guys looking at her, If I leave her alone even to go to the bathroom guys will hit on her on the sneak. Not a complaint honestly.. I enjoy it deep down.

10 years younger than the Ex and makes 10x ( 6 figures ) more money than the Ex.. 

My biggest issue now is working to keep the weight off myself. Which oddly enough she wants me fatter so women won't look at me. Go figure how life is.. 

Lon1, you are selling yourself short.. I hope someone comes along and shows you that YOU ARE A GOOD MAN... 

I hope you have your own affair and move on for this woman you call a wife..


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

After reading this thread I'm not even sure what you're trying to save. I mean you mentioned the kids in the first post and then never brought them up again so I'm assuming it's not for their sake. And your approach is completely ass backwards. Your wife should be doing the heavy lifting to fix HER issues and the marriage, yet it seems all the burden is being placed on you. Not just by her but by yourself as well. And to me it sounds like your wife just isn't into you anymore and is more afraid of being divorced and losing her daughter and lifestyle than losing you. Yet you're holding onto her for dear life.

I really think you should get yourself some individual counseling (as well as your wife) and read No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## HubbyDaddy2013 (Jul 2, 2013)

Time to drop her like a bad habit! 

Physical Affair, and she is not remorseful, and showing signs of wanting to be with you? ...Time for Divorce! 

...Tommorrow morning...tell her that she has until Monday afternoon to schedule an appointment with a Marriage Counselor on her time. Also tell her to give you Other Man's information including phone numbers. Tell her you are going to tell OM's Wife about the affair. 

Tell her you want that contact info immediately. ...If she is reluctant, and tells you NO. Then tell her that you two are done. You will call the Lawyer first thing Monday morning to get Divorce Process started. ...Simple as that....If she agrees to MC ASAP, and giving you all information about OM...then tell her to go clean the damn house because it's dirty! ...You need to show some sort of Authority man! 

Without it...she is just going to trample over you...YOU HAVE TO EXPOSE OM for reconciliation to work. You need to tell HER FAMILY about her cheating as well. SHAME HER


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Many thanks to you all for your thoughtful and considered advice and opinions. It's been very helpful and now I need to digest, read the various references and act accordingly.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm curious, did she complain at all before the affair and does it coincide with the emotional aspect of the affair? You said everything was fine, THEN everything went to crap and you could do nothing right.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> Many thanks to you all for your thoughtful and considered advice and opinions. It's been very helpful and now I need to digest, read the various references and act accordingly.


Lon,

Stop being the OM stand in. Start working on you and start moving on.

She will not love you nor respect you until you love or respect yourself.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Lon1 said:


> Many thanks to you all for your thoughtful and considered advice and opinions. It's been very helpful and now I need to digest, read the various references and act accordingly.


 You need to be willing to end the marraige in order to have a chance at a marraige worth having. It is time for you to move on. If she fights hard and does the heavy lifting to try to save the marraige, maybe you reconsider. 

Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Lon,

Please keep us posted on updates. Most of us really DO have a vested interest in helping. Knowing the outcome helps us too...


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Lon,
> 
> Please keep us posted on updates. Most of us really DO have a vested interest in helping. Knowing the outcome helps us too...


Lon1, Just wanted to add.. NO ONE HERE wants you to get a divorce.. Everyone here is rooting that your Wife will see what a fool she is and never do this again.. Sadly life isn't like that all the time.. 

Take it from me.. 

A man that put up with 4 know or attempted affairs before getting kicked to the curb on the last one.. 

If my Ex-wife ever told me or made the statement "*I am doing this for you, because you deserve better than me. You just don't see this now."* I would thank her a million times over today.. 

Sadly she said she needed to do this all for her. Again, I wish I was making this up.. 

No one wants to see anyones marriage go south.. But as *TRy* said you need to push this thing to the edge of the cliff before your wife can or is willing to step away from it and not jump off. 

Sadly I've come to learn that unless your wife is the one who is really willing to fix this, this will NEVER be fixed.. If you for one moment Con her, convince her otherwise to stay. It will backfire on you eventually. 

Your Wife has to be the one that comes to you and says I want to stay. I want to fix this.. Nothing short of that will EVER fix this.. 

Keep posting but be honest when you post as well.


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Up until last week things seemed to have changed for the better. We'd talked about Divorce, she'd been shocked to confront the reality but had then seemed full of remorse and we'd agreed to try and make a go of it - but with the clear message that any contact with the OM would mean instantly that the conversations I had with the solicitor would produce papers - no discussion.

I'd continued to monitor her calls / texts and she seemed to have stopped contact altogether with the OM. She knew I had found out details of where he lived and his wife and would go straight there and disclose everything if there was any more contact. 

She seemed to be trying hard to be more friendly, caring and loving.

Then something seemed to change. I asked her why she was so *****y all of a sudden. She said it was PMT, but when her period started yesterday she has still been distant.

Her calls don't seem to be to anyone not expected, but she is spending more time on facebook and on her computer. She is complaining of being very stressed, complains about the house being a mess and says she is unhappy. 

So I guess the turnround was an act and it's time for the 180.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have a keylogger on her computer?


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## Lon1 (May 6, 2014)

Unfortunately she has access to three separate computers and uses her ipad - so a keylogger would be tricky


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why? Download it 4 times.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Sounds like she is just looking for excuses and justifications to do what she wants. 

If the house is messy and she is not complaining about it while she is cleaning it, then she is just looking for excuses to blame shift.

You should have all her passwords and access to all her devices. If she is purposely jumping from system to system, then she is doing it to make things impossible to connect the dots. She is going through the withdrawal of a love lost, just as one would mourn a death, but she needs to realize she put herself there and it is her fault and she needs to own it and make the repairs to the damage she has done.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

The 180 is one option.

Why not ask her to leave and not come back until she can be honest with you and tell you why she is not happy.......

HM


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She is like this because you accept it. Hold out your hand when she's on the computer and say 'I'd like to check your computer.' If she refuses, 'Fine, I'll go get a suitcase and help you pack.'


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You never exposed OM to his wife, did you?

What happened to the apartment?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Lon1 said:


> Her calls don't seem to be to anyone not expected, but she is spending more time on facebook and on her computer. She is complaining of being very stressed, complains about the house being a mess and says she is unhappy.
> 
> So I guess the turnround was an act and it's time for the 180.


 What you should tell her when she says she's stressed and unhappy, that you understand full well the feeling of being stressed and unhappy since she caused it by having an affair. 

I would also let her know that if she really wants to experience stress and unhappiness then you'll be more than happy to help her pack up and go live someplace else because she doesn't have the right to complain when the root of the problem is her infidelity, lying and deceit.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> I'd continued to monitor her calls / texts and she seemed to have stopped contact altogether with the OM. *She knew I had found out details of where he lived and his wife and would go straight there and disclose everything if there was any more contact.
> *


Why haven't you called this POSOM's BW yet? First off, she has a right to know what her husband is up to, and secondly, a phone call from you would more than likely end things for good.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lon1 said:


> She knew I had found out details of where he lived and his wife and would go straight there and disclose everything if there was any more contact.


ANOTHER MISTAKE LON.

Look, you are making some progress with your responses to her, but you don't use the "threat" of POSOM's exposure and certainly not as a bargaining tool for no contact. *You just do it.* If she doesn't like it, she can go suck a lemon.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

badmemory said:


> ANOTHER MISTAKE LON.
> 
> Look, you are making some progress with your responses to her, but you don't use the "threat" of POSOM's exposure and certainly not as a bargaining tool for no contact. *You just do it.* If she doesn't like it, she can go suck a lemon.


As Conrad would have said...
Talk less.
Do more.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> She knew I had found out details of where he lived and his wife and would go straight there and disclose everything if there was any more contact.


Coercion is never good in a marriage and it is worse in a reconciliation. IMO, this should never have been put into play.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

It sounds to me like your WS has been in contact with the OM(via facebook).

She told him that you know where he lives, etc..

Now he's pulling away from her to hopefully keep you from contacting his BW.

In turn, she is now p1ssed off at you because your screwing with her "love life".

You should have nuked this affair when you found the info to contact the OM's BW. Your inaction is the cause of what you're dealing with right now.

You're WW is not on board with R right now. As long as she's in contact with the OM, she'll never want to work on a R.


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