# Need Encouragement--One Step Forward, Two Steps Back



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Hi all - hope everyone was able to dig out of any snow or ice you got with the big winter blast. Even where I live (the south), we got slammed...but it's all melted and gone now.

Due to the weather, I was home on Friday and I kind of took a couple of steps back in my efforts to change the dynamic of my marriage and I'm feeling down on myself today and need some encouragement and any advice you can throw my way.

Hubby and I were getting along great on Friday, so I decided (yes I know...) to approach him for some intimacy (hey, I was horny), well - not to anyone's surprise, least of all mine - I was rejected (he said he didn't feel well). Well, instead of just walking away, not taking it personally and just blowing it off, I reacted (albeit pretty calmly), but said some things I probably shouldn't have.

It went something like this:

Me: If you keep this up, you will lose me, I'm not going to stay around forever while I'm treated like I don't matter.
Him: Silence
Me: You've got more excuses than Carter has liver pills (if you're my age you know what this means)
Him: Get the f**k out of my room.

I left and we stayed in separate camps the rest of the evening.

Saturday was good and we actually spent time together in town and had a nice day/evening (no intimacy of course).

Sunday was good also. During the weekend he told me that he loved me, but that he thought I didn't believe him. I told him I loved him back and his response was: "I'm not sure you do, I think you tolerate me and take care of me because you don't think you have anywhere to go." I didn't respond - but that's not why I stay - I stay because I love and care about him, but apparently he doesn't feel that or believe it - this isn't the first time he has told me that he doubts that I do love him??

We went to bed Sunday and I was feeling lonely and could tell that there wasn't going to be any intimacy again and got quiet (I tend to get quiet when I'm upset). He asked me what was wrong and I told him nothing (yeah, I know...a subtle fitness test which I realized AFTER I said it). He then said okay.

I got bored watching TV and gave him the remote and told him I was getting up. He said, well, okay. Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone as I was feeling very unloved - so this was my one-way conversation last night.

Me: This is why I'm upset. I was feeling lonely and I thought we could be intimate, and I really don't understand why I keep getting rejected.
Him: Silence
Me: You have no time and attention for me, yet you spend plenty of time and attention on total strangers on the internet that you will never meet, yet you have a warm, able-bodied woman who wants you and you just continue to throw her away.
Him: Silence
Me: I just want to love you and you have a wall that you won't pull down and that I can't get over - I don't know what else to do here.
Him: Silence
Me: I know you're probably still looking at porn and it doesn't matter anymore, I don't even get on your computer unless you're in the room. I don't care about it anymore - I care about you.
Him: Silence
Me: You know, *****, you're right (based on what he said Sat night), sometimes I don't believe you love me. You say you do, and I guess in your own way you do, but your actions towards me don't feel like love. Actions speak louder than words and your actions are speaking loud and clear.
Him: Silence

He has accused me in the past of being self-centered and selfish when I ask for intimacy - I really don't get this...he says I care more about sex than him - what?? The fact that I would like at some intimacy, every once in a while, with my own husband, makes me selfish and self-centered - I still don't understand this!

Anyway...he doesn't appear mad and I'm not mad either, I'm just mainly disappointed in myself that I pushed and wasn't patient (patience IS NOT one of my strongest virtues). It's very hard to act all happy and bubbly when you're dying inside from loneliness (like a plant that is not getting watered).

So...I know what I did wrong, and I'm back on the path today - but could use some encouragement - I am working very hard in the face of what seems like insurmountable odds sometimes and I know that I'm going to make mistakes, but how do I keep from repeating this one? How long do I wait for any type of intimacy to actually occur? Why do I need him to touch me so badly? Is this a way of me getting "approval" from him that I am a desirable, loved woman? That he does love me? I really don't know.

Makes it very difficult when he won't communicate with me or he sends me mixed signals - sometimes I don't know if I'm coming or going...

Thanks for listening!


----------



## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm sure its difficult at times to stay on the path of detachment, or doing your own thing without feeling the need to bring certain things up. However, I also do not think you were in the wrong with the things you expressed to him. Its called communication. The sad thing is, what you say and how you feel seem to fall of deaf ears. 

Unfortunately after reading some of your other posts as well, unless he does some kind of miracle about face, it looks like this might be your your life with this man. There may be days where you're ok with it, and some that you're not. I also understand that you love and care for him, BUT...........if you are are willing to live like this, then I guess its ok. 

I also wonder if he doesn't take you seriously at times. I have to wonder if he thinks when you say things like, "you're gonna lose me", he feels you are just blowing in the wind. That might be another reason he doesn't make much change in some areas.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AgentD said:


> I'm sure its difficult at times to stay on the path of detachment, or doing your own thing without feeling the need to bring certain things up. However, I also do not think you were in the wrong with the things you expressed to him. Its called communication. The sad thing is, what you say and how you feel seem to fall of deaf ears.
> 
> Unfortunately after reading some of your other posts as well, unless he does some kind of miracle about face, it looks like this might be your your life with this man. There may be days where you're ok with it, and some that you're not. I also understand that you love and care for him, BUT...........if you are are willing to live like this, then I guess its ok.
> 
> I also wonder if he doesn't take you seriously at times. I have to wonder if he thinks when you say things like, "you're gonna lose me", he feels you are just blowing in the wind. That might be another reason he doesn't make much change in some areas.


And you may be right...he may not take me seriously - but I've actually never been more serious in my life. I've come to a crossroads in my life and want to do what's best for ME - ME, I'm a real person here with wants and needs, it's not just all about HIM - if he can't accept that and at least meet me halfway (just halfway, some type of compromise), then you're right - I have to make a choice if this is how I want to spend the rest of my life or not.

He flips back and forth and I don't know which end is up or down most of the time. He hugs me, loves on me, tells me how much he loves me, then the next day it's as if I don't exist. I know part of this is his medical issues from his brain injury - but I can't take the roller coaster ride anymore - I have the right to some stability too.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm just trying to right the path again and see where it goes. It may not turn out like I hope it will...we'll see.


----------



## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

"He hugs me, loves on me, tells me how much he loves me, then the next day it's as if I don't exist. I know part of this is his medical issues from his brain injury."

Ugggh I couldn't deal with that, one way one minute then another way the next day! Also there are people exactly like this, one way one minute then different another minute who have no brain issues from injury. Some of it might be from that with your husband, and some of it may have zero to do with a brain injury. You're right, a roller coaster ride is probably the best way to describe it.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Nobody else got any encouraging words?

Come on, when I needed my a** kicked, you were there!


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think you did the right thing sticking up for your needs.

I am sorry there is continuing stress at home.

But being specific about what is wrong is the right path to take in communicating.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

michzz said:


> I think you did the right thing sticking up for your needs.
> 
> I am sorry there is continuing stress at home.
> 
> But being specific about what is wrong is the right path to take in communicating.


I agree, I'm just not sure I'm getting ANYWHERE with it. 

But I'm going to continue down the path and see where it leads me - what have I got to lose if I don't try, right?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I agree, I'm just not sure I'm getting ANYWHERE with it.
> 
> But I'm going to continue down the path and see where it leads me - what have I got to lose if I don't try, right?


If someone does not believe, the path towards belief is narrow at first - but widens over time.

Think of it as a mountain of evidence building behind you. You see things a certain way, but certain "contrary data" continues to make it's way to your sensors. Each piece of "contrary data" fits like a brick in an ever-mounting wall behind you.

EVENTUALLY.... the subject turns and sees a "fully formed wall" of evidence that was dismissed. And, here's the thing, that evidence is now much stronger and higher than what (they believe) lays in front of them.

The words one hears at that point:

"NOW I get it"

or, a simple "AHA"

His wall isn't there yet.

Don't kick yourself for expressing your needs. At least you didn't get big and emotional in front of him.

What you're doing is nudging him to re-examine things.

As long as those stay "nudges" and not shix tests, it's constructive.

Stay the course - as you clearly need to find this out for yourself.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Conrad said:


> If someone does not believe, the path towards belief is narrow at first - but widens over time.
> 
> Think of it as a mountain of evidence building behind you. You see things a certain way, but certain "contrary data" continues to make it's way to your sensors. Each piece of "contrary data" fits like a brick in an ever-mounting wall behind you.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

And you're right, I didn't get big and emotional in front of him and I was proud of that fact. I was very unemotional and just stated what I needed to say without emotions getting in the way, and, at least he did listen. Normally, he would have gotten defensive and told me to get out or left the room, etc. But he actually stayed, listened, didn't argue and didn't respond - so I guess that's a step in the right direction, I think....

I'm back on the path, just had a stumble and needed some encouraging back-up that I am heading in the right direction and that what I had to say needed to be said and I think the context of "how" I said it made all the difference (for me at least - except for that Carters got liver pills remark, that was a bit below the belt and I did recognize that fact and did not continue in that direction).

Thanks again - don't know how I got through anything before you guys!!


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

All I can say is, keep trying. Then after awhile eventually you with either come to the conclusion this is your life and how it will be (this is based on the fact if things do not change with him), or you will get so tired of it, you will choose another choice.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

trey69 said:


> All I can say is, keep trying. Then after awhile eventually you with either come to the conclusion this is your life and how it will be (this is based on the fact if things do not change with him), or you will get so tired of it, you will choose another choice.


True and true.

Just hope its not the latter, will be very disappointing for me.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MWIL,
Sorry - you did NOTHING wrong. Of course you desire physical intimacy/sex. You are full normal he is being very cold and hostile on this subject. 

If it was me I would be very direct on this subject - using a non-combative tone. I would ask him whether he is willing to hold you, kiss you and pleasure you with his hands at least X times a week/month. 

My guess is he is going to be silent. If he "is" I would not attack him I would be more inclined to add "Unless you speak up now I am going to take your silence to mean that our sex life is permanently over". And then I would let that hang in the air for a while and if he doesn't dispute it, change the subject or leave the room. If he "does" dispute it, ask him what he is willing to "commit" to doing in terms of a schedule. 

Sorry - I realize that is not romantic - but YOU deserve some clarity. And if he is deliberately evasive I would be firm with him. He needs to not jerk you around - he needs to give you some honest answers whatever they are. 

FYI: I don't know your situation well, however when a partner CHOOSES to unilaterally pronounce a death sentence on your love life, YOU are free to do as you wish. 





MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Hi all - hope everyone was able to dig out of any snow or ice you got with the big winter blast. Even where I live (the south), we got slammed...but it's all melted and gone now.
> 
> Due to the weather, I was home on Friday and I kind of took a couple of steps back in my efforts to change the dynamic of my marriage and I'm feeling down on myself today and need some encouragement and any advice you can throw my way.
> 
> ...


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> MWIL,
> Sorry - you did NOTHING wrong. Of course you desire physical intimacy/sex. You are full normal he is being very cold and hostile on this subject.
> 
> If it was me I would be very direct on this subject - using a non-combative tone. I would ask him whether he is willing to hold you, kiss you and pleasure you with his hands at least X times a week/month.
> ...



Thanks MEM, reason I'm not going to apologize and didn't this entire weekend - I don't FEEL I did anything wrong. I expressed desire for my husband and time together and it got thrown back in my face and for once, I didn't just take it.

He is being cold, selfish and hostile and I have no real reason why - I get several off-handed reasons, always changing but no real reason. And no, he's not having any type of affair - either EA or PA - that's not the problem.

That's all I want is honest answers, no matter how much they hurt, I deserve that after our 27 years together, at least that much and he can't or won't give that to me.

The idea of asking him to commit to weekly acts that he will do for me is doable. I actually had him do that about two weeks ago, I said I need to m******** and need your help and without waiting for an answer I got him involved. It's sad I have to go that route though and I don't even really know why.

But, we do have individual and MC counseling at the end of this month and I WILL be bringing this subject up for the counselor to open with during our joint session and try to get to the root of the problem.

Thanks for the input, I'll give it a couple of days and try it out, will let you know how it goes. I'm really afraid that he'll agree that it's permanently over and then what do I do? I'm not prepared to do anything at this point if he does...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Uncertainty is more destructive than certainty. False hope is so painful. Worst case - he says its over. 

My guess he would look the other way if you had an affair. 

Is he still able to get hard and ejac? Or did the TMI end that for him? And - no offense intended - if you think he cannot reach orgasm - what causes you to be confident that is true? I only ask because I imagine that I would feel a bit frustrated watching porn if I could not achieve release.




MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Thanks MEM, reason I'm not going to apologize and didn't this entire weekend - I don't FEEL I did anything wrong. I expressed desire for my husband and time together and it got thrown back in my face and for once, I didn't just take it.
> 
> He is being cold, selfish and hostile and I have no real reason why - I get several off-handed reasons, always changing but no real reason. And no, he's not having any type of affair - either EA or PA - that's not the problem.
> 
> ...


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MWIl

Deep down in your heart you want your husband's love, intimacy, and attention, you don't get any, you feel hurt, it is all understandable. 

If I were you, I would just stop asking him, stop letting him see the weak side of me, he doesn't sympathize with me, so I won't show it to him. 

And tell you honestly, I will cheat on him, he doesn't care about my needs or my feeling, why should I feel guilty that I go out and look for other men. 

In the end, I leave him!


----------



## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I am working very hard in the face of what seems like insurmountable odds


I have seen a few of your other posts... Despite all the issues in your relationship this is the theme that is clearest. YOU are working your hardest to make this work, facing obstruction at every turn, from HIM. I am sorry to say but he is leaving you with no choice than to either continue an unhappy life married to a human brick wall or begin the hard task of moving on. He is not equipped (whether that's mentally or emotionally) to meet your needs. He either chooses not to or is incapable.

To quote the often to-the-point Mr. Kanye West

"Now pick your next move, you can leave or live with it."


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Uncertainty is more destructive than certainty. False hope is so painful. Worst case - he says its over.
> 
> My guess he would look the other way if you had an affair.
> 
> Is he still able to get hard and ejac? Or did the TMI end that for him? And - no offense intended - if you think he cannot reach orgasm - what causes you to be confident that is true? I only ask because I imagine that I would feel a bit frustrated watching porn if I could not achieve release.


YES, but not all the time

TMI did not end it for him, just not as easy as before, but it works

He can reach orgasm - I've seen it! :lol:

But I do know he looks more than he participates when he is watching porn.

Why, don't know - habit, trying to feel like the man he was - don't really know.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> MWIl
> 
> Deep down in your heart you want your husband's love, intimacy, and attention, you don't get any, you feel hurt, it is all understandable.
> 
> ...


Correct

I am stopping him, it shows I'm weak. I'm going to let HIM come to me...we'll see if that works.

I can't cheat on him - not built that way - can't explain why - just can't. He is the man I love, the man I want to have that "emotional" connection with and like I've said before - I'm pretty stubborn and not going down without a good fight!


----------



## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

MWIL,
To change, he as to want to change. If he loves you, he will respect you and want to have sex with you.

I say you have to lay down the ultimatum at this point. You have tried to talk to him and he will not communicate. Talk to him in a way that a man understands:

Action = Consequence

Tell him that you love him deeply, you are very attracted to him and that you need to be physical with him to feel loved. Tell him you deserve to feel loved and desired.

Then tell him exactly what that means, in a tangible way. That means we have sex X times a week. That means we kiss for longer than X minutes. That means we go out on dates. Be very clear.

Tell him that if he can not do this for you then you will leave and find someone who will love you. He is not "loving" you in the true sense that "loving" is an action. Tell him leaving him will break your heart but that you can not live, or feel alive, like this anymore.


----------



## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I know that "carter's got pills" remark. Jeez, I'm old. MWIL..you've come so far. You love this man. I think it's an excellent idea to get him to commit to *something*, "x" times a week. Make him do it. You're basically having to learn to live with a new man, post TBI. That's going to take time. He's a different man than he was. And you apparently still love this man. Keep hanging in, but don't cave to his silence. 

Have you asked him if he'd mind if you took a lover?


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I know that "carter's got pills" remark. Jeez, I'm old. MWIL..you've come so far. You love this man. I think it's an excellent idea to get him to commit to *something*, "x" times a week. Make him do it. You're basically having to learn to live with a new man, post TBI. That's going to take time. He's a different man than he was. And you apparently still love this man. Keep hanging in, but don't cave to his silence.
> 
> Have you asked him if he'd mind if you took a lover?


Funny you asked that question.

Last year, when this was all coming to a fever pitch (it has calmed down some - for him anyway), he told me to just go out and have my sex, just leave him alone!

Do I think he'd mind - actually no - but I think he'd want to have one too and that's part of my problem. I think I am the problem, even though he won't admit it and that is the worst part of this that I have to face and don't want to.

So don't think I'm going there yet - may open up a box I can't close again.


----------



## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

So...if I understand this right, you believe he wants to have sex, just not with you? That opens up a whole 'nother kettle of fish.


----------



## Tourchwood (Feb 1, 2011)

He might have a major depression and Anxiety, I'm like that if i stay a day or two a way from the Med, may be also he has ADD. search both of them. 
men dont express their feeling, if he told u he love you then he does mean it. you are wonderful person to support him. Intimacy is not everything.
may be needs to work out, go outside and have a hobby, you guys may need also a long vacation a way from everyone. 
things you said happens with every couples. 
may be you are being over emotional due to some hormones that you see things different or sensitive.
what happen to swingers parties, you said it helped?


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

major misfit said:


> So...if I understand this right, you believe he wants to have sex, just not with you? That opens up a whole 'nother kettle of fish.


I don't know - just throwing that out there.

As I've said, I'm working on no information, misinformation and my own definition of what I think is information - it's a crap shoot at this point.

But that's where my mind has been because I can't come up with any other reason as he's not giving me many.

I might just be flapping in the wind and couldn't be farther from the truth - but who knows at this point - I should, but I don't.

I do have a bit of a histronic personality - I tend to make mountains out of molehills sometimes, could be doing that with this comment.

Or that's what I wish to believe at this point!


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Tourchwood said:


> He might have a major depression and Anxiety, I'm like that if i stay a day or two a way from the Med, may be also he has ADD. search both of them.
> men dont express their feeling, if he told u he love you then he does mean it. you are wonderful person to support him. Intimacy is not everything.
> may be needs to work out, go outside and have a hobby, you guys may need also a long vacation a way from everyone.
> things you said happens with every couples.
> ...


And he is being treated for depression (I might have left that out somewhere??), and is unmotivated due to that. Isn't participating in working outside like he used to, or the hobbies he used to do that kept him occupied (and helped with his therapy due to TBI).

These days he just leaves the house to go to his VA dr appt's and then sits and watches TV and surfs the computer.

Swinging was fun and we did it most of last year, but I put a stop on it until we get our own sex problem worked out. When that is good, then we'll continue. 

But depression could be part of it too.


----------



## beenthere2 (Aug 1, 2011)

I Have to add, strictly for encouragement reasons, that You are not aone. I myself have been through that "stage" where it feels like my SO is not listening to my concerns. It's is very frustrating, even to the point where you feel you should cheat to find happiness.(I feel you greenpearl) Trust me when I say, you have a HUSBAND which in itself is important and something to hold onto. Give it time, it's worth a try...or a few


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It is so hard to be in your situation.

I know that feeling of rejection 

I notice though, that you 'attack' him verbally about what you think he does/feels, etc. He may just shut down after hearing it and not want to talk.

Maybe start with "I feel sad and upset because it seems to be that you never...." I don't know.

I know with my husband, if I approach him with facts about himself, and don't word it right, he will shut down.

It's been much better since I learned how to really communicate with him. Men like to help, they don't like feeling they made a mistake.

So when I talk to him now, I talk about how I feel and stuff, and usually he'll try to clarify because I wasn't attacking.


----------

