# New to site - shot down in the bedroom



## Construction Worker

Hi All, I’m a 44 year old construction worker who has been pretty much happily married to my wife for 18 years, with 3 kids ranging in ages from mid teens to preteens. The only hangup I have in our relationship is a lack of intimacy. We may have sex 6 times a year. I would have it every night if I could, but she just isn’t often interested. She’s 44 as well. We never had sex every day during our marriage, but when we were young, it was multiple times per week. I have tried to be romantic, I have tried to be dominant, I have tried begging, I have tried different times of the day, but sex is reserved for only when she wants it, and she is always the instigator. If I want it there is always an excuse, the old headache excuse, the kids might still be awake, period, etc. What really frustrates me is that when she wants it, I give it, I can’t say no, and the sex is fantastic, I want it the next day, but it’s always back to normal, no time, kids, don’t feel good, etc. I also workout, run, lift free weights, eat healthy, so my libido is very high.

Well, the other day it was our anniversary. I had a plan on our anniversary night that would make me irresistible to her. I had been secretly taking some sexy selfies of myself that I would present to her on our anniversary night, and do a Striptease for her in my construction gear. On our anniversary, I got the kids out of the house for the night. We went to her favorite restaurant, walked around a bit in our favorite part of town, held hands, it was great. I flirted with her, she flirted back...it was working! Got home, snuck some yellow roses (her favorite) into the bedroom, put on the red light, had my selfies on the iPad next to the flowers, put my construction stuff on (hard hat, vest, jeans, tool belt) and called her upstairs. She was so happy to see the flowers, but saw the pictures and me and burst out laughing. That’s ok, I thought, don’t take me too serious! She swiped through a couple of pictures, I turned on some music and she turned beet red in the face. Couldn’t even make it past pic #3. And the pics weren’t lazy d—k pics, I tried to be artsy, even funny, just a few pics in my construction gear without a shirt on. She gave me a nice hug, thanked me for the flowers, she said she can’t do this and left the room. I was left humiliated, confused, embarrassed, devastated. I put some normal clothes on, went downstairs, and it was like nothing ever happened. She told me I might have to go pick up our oldest from a friend’s house at midnight and talked about the business of the following day. I didn't really say anything and went to bed. This was a couple of days ago, and I have tried to act normal and not brought it up, even though I am still very hurt by what happened. 

So do I try to discuss this with her? She rolls her eyes and shuts down when I want to bring up the subjects of sex and intimacy, so I try not to. Did I go too far with the selfies and Striptease that I didn’t get a chance to perform? I want to tell her I’m sure there are plenty of wives in the world that would appreciate and enjoy the gesture, especially given the shape I’m in, but I’m not even sure that’s true. I’m just to the point where I’m ready to give up on having a “normal” sexual relationship with my wife, and I don’t like where that may lead...any husbands out there ever try selfies and Stripteases to spice things up, with or without success? Anything else I can try?


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## Tilted 1

No it is not odd that you would do this for your partner. Has she showed any other signs of lost time. Or has she alot of spare time by herself?


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## RebuildingMe

It really sucks when one partner controls the entire sexual commodity in a relationship. It’s creates resentment. I’d start snooping around. There may be more to the story that you don’t know. “I can’t do this” is a red flag response. Good luck brother.


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## Tilted 1

A bruise ego is hard especially when it comes up short of ones expectations. Do you notice any strange behavior prior to your sexual interactions. (Something unique) or does she just say to you come on hubby do your job. You do state that it is enjoyable for you both. She seems to be too much into your kids, and just is use to that. 

Some may say it could be hormones, and that's is maybe a good starting point. Have you ever just pleased her and not attempted to also get your needs met. While in bed why are you asking, some women have said they don't respect a man if they have to beg or plea. When you say dominance, what do you mean?


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## EveningThoughts

. . . . .


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## farsidejunky

Are you okay with her being emotional comfortable in the face of your own discomfort?

If not, nothing will change. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## skerzoid

I would be divorced by now.


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## Blondilocks

Reading through your post, I was expecting a show-down at the OK Corral. What did I get - "I put some normal clothes on, went downstairs, and it was like nothing ever happened."

Really, you couldn't muster even an "I'm sorry you were embarrassed. Can you imagine how I felt when you laughed?". Ask her how she would feel if you laughed at her one of the six times a year she gets horny.

Stop tip-toeing around the damn tulips and lay it on the line. Six times a year is not normal.

And, if things are this bad now, just wait 'til menopause hits - it's right around the corner.


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## Construction Worker

No, she works a part time job and takes the kids to their after school or nightly activities. I don’t believe she has time to mess around with someone else, so I don’t believe infidelity is a concern.


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## manwithnoname

Been there. The six times a year will drop to zero when menopause hits.


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## Mr. Nail

replace those pictures with a countdown calendar. you have less than 8 years.


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## Tilted 1

Construction Worker said:


> No, she works a part time job and takes the kids to their after school or nightly activities. I don’t believe she has time to mess around with someone else, so I don’t believe infidelity is a concern.



Theirs another poster here and in his open relationships time needed was only 5mins don't be naive in your assumptions, hell some women get off by giving **** meeyes in front of their spouse. Personal experience so. I'd you got that she's a good girl mentality , stop and be proactive and help each other secure your relationship.


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## wilson

While I applaud your effort and think it was a fantastic romantic gesture, it was probably too intense considering the current state of your intimate relationship. I totally agree that this kind of gesture is appropriate in a marriage, but she's just not receptive at this time. She'll probably need to make much more effort to personally get in the mood rather than you creating the mood for her externally.

I think you need to get at more the core issue of why she's not interested in intimacy and find ways to make her understand that intimacy is a critical part of a healthy marriage. While it's true that it's possible to have a marriage without intimacy, that marriage will not be healthy. Lack of intimacy is a fatal disease for a marriage and will lead to a variety of harmful outcomes. You are implying you are looking into alternatives. Those alternatives rarely lead to a healthier marriage.

This latest incident is a perfect opportunity to bring up the discussion, but you shouldn't try to fix it yourself. I think you should bring up the fact that your anniversary didn't have any intimacy and that's a problem in-and-of itself. Tell her that this is a serious issue and you guys need professional help. Tell her you want to go to marriage counselor to help you work through what is going on because you're not going to continue in a platonic relationship. Tell her you understand if she's not interested in intimacy, but if she's committed to that and it's going to be the case in the future, then you guys need to start planning for how to split up.


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## Construction Worker

Tilted 1 said:


> A bruise ego is hard especially when it comes up short of ones expectations. Do you notice any strange behavior prior to your sexual interactions. (Something unique) or does she just say to you come on hubby do your job. You do state that it is enjoyable for you both. She seems to be too much into your kids, and just is use to that.
> 
> Some may say it could be hormones, and that's is maybe a good starting point. Have you ever just pleased her and not attempted to also get your needs met. While in bed why are you asking, some women have said they don't respect a man if they have to beg or plea. When you say dominance, what do you mean?


She’s a bit more moody, I’m sure that comes with age / menopause. She had surgery last year to remove a cyst around her lady parts, but we were still probably around half a dozen times per year prior to that. She Doesn’t think she looks all that good anymore, but I don’t think she’s got self esteem issues, she will walk around in front of me in her underwear or even mostly naked and not bat an eyelid. It sucks, because I am still very much attracted to her, and she must think I’m kidding when I tell her she’s my dream girl. 

If I beg in bed, I try to keep it light, simple, joking around. Maybe she doesn’t think I’m serious. When I say dominance, I just move in on her aggressively but she just pushes me away and kind of laughs and says not tonight...


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## Casual Observer

Get serious NOW. Don't let this fester. Momentum fuels the very worst things in a relationship. 

If the present situation isn't working for you (and it shouldn't be), then you need to tell her this- "The present situation isn't working for me." And follow that up with "And if it's not working for me, it's not working for us. There is no good future version of "us" that I can see if things stay like this."

She has to know that this is a serious issue, which is tough when, so far, sounds like you've not treated it like one. So why should she. Come up with a list of things that you're willing to do to improve things with your wife, and find out how many of those things she's willing to help with. Suggest both individual therapy and marriage counseling.

But don't let things just go along as they have until eventually you weaken and look elsewhere. You made a vow, she made a vow, when you married. You're both responsible for the contents of that vow. Either one of you has the power to end the marriage vows. Is that her intent? Maybe it should be asked in exactly that way, and see where that leads.


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## Construction Worker

EveningThoughts said:


> Loving that you put so much effort in
> 
> But if your wife does not have much libido, then a striptease and sexy pics would have been way too much for her. That's more for someone with a drive as high as yours.
> 
> When a person is not much into sex, moves like might even seem a bit repulsive and overtly sexual rather than romantic and loving.
> 
> Did she used to like more risque sex, and perhaps do striptease for you? Is that her style? Did she like you being dominant?
> 
> She was with you on the romantic side and possibly up to some sex until you made it about your over sexed self. Then it possibly became all too much for her.


I guess I never thought about it that way, that this might be too much for her. But I was desperate, and looking at this as a sort of last resort, Hail Mary that had a great chance of success. She does like me being dominant, we have tried very light bondage, nothing too wild, just some handcuffs and stuff like that. 

If she sent me pictures like I sent her, and offered to do a Striptease for me, our marriage would be over, as I would be so excited that I would keel over and die from a heart attack. 

And I guess your last statement could be right. I don’t know.


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## Tilted 1

Construction Worker said:


> Tilted 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bruise ego is hard especially when it comes up short of ones expectations. Do you notice any strange behavior prior to your sexual interactions. (Something unique) or does she just say to you come on hubby do your job. You do state that it is enjoyable for you both. She seems to be too much into your kids, and just is use to that.
> 
> Some may say it could be hormones, and that's is maybe a good starting point. Have you ever just pleased her and not attempted to also get your needs met. While in bed why are you asking, some women have said they don't respect a man if they have to beg or plea. When you say dominance, what do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> She’s a bit more moody, I’m sure that comes with age / menopause. She had surgery last year to remove a cyst around her lady parts, but we were still probably around half a dozen times per year prior to that. She Doesn’t think she looks all that good anymore, but I don’t think she’s got self esteem issues, she will walk around in front of me in her underwear or even mostly naked and not bat an eyelid. It sucks, because I am still very much attracted to her, and she must think I’m kidding when I tell her she’s my dream girl.
> 
> If I beg in bed, I try to keep it light, simple, joking around. Maybe she doesn’t think I’m serious. When I say dominance, I just move in on her aggressively but she just pushes me away and kind of laughs and says not tonight...
Click to expand...

Well maybe now is the time to incourage her, I a different way have her give you oral, or a hand job. And the do the same for her, gently place her hand or you place hers dim the lights get some aroma therapy of sorts. Oils massage , feet rubbing for her and slowly bring her in to your world of Love.... Just saying


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## Construction Worker

Casual Observer said:


> Get serious NOW. Don't let this fester. Momentum fuels the very worst things in a relationship.
> 
> If the present situation isn't working for you (and it shouldn't be), then you need to tell her this- "The present situation isn't working for me." And follow that up with "And if it's not working for me, it's not working for us. There is no good future version of "us" that I can see if things stay like this."
> 
> She has to know that this is a serious issue, which is tough when, so far, sounds like you've not treated it like one. So why should she. Come up with a list of things that you're willing to do to improve things with your wife, and find out how many of those things she's willing to help with. Suggest both individual therapy and marriage counseling.
> 
> But don't let things just go along as they have until eventually you weaken and look elsewhere. You made a vow, she made a vow, when you married. You're both responsible for the contents of that vow. Either one of you has the power to end the marriage vows. Is that her intent? Maybe it should be asked in exactly that way, and see where that leads.


It’s been festering for years now, and I agree, now is the perfect time to to get serious, but I guess I’ve been afraid of upsetting the status quo by getting serious, because other than a lack of intimacy, things are fine, we get along, we don’t argue much, have common interests, but even that might be because we aren’t around each other a lot on weekdays due to jobs, kids activities, and on the weekends we are often around friends or family or out at the soccer fields or basketball courts. I think maybe we just need to get away from it all for a weekend.


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## wilson

While there are probably ways for you to get her in the mood, I would suggest you *not* try to do that right now. For a long-term solution, I think it's more important to take this opportunity to work with her on changing her mindset around intimacy. She needs to take an active role in this process and figure out how to be more open to intimacy. If you take on the responsibility for turning her on, then it allows her to be completely passive about the whole thing. You try a striptease, she says no. You try a massage, she says no. and so on and so on. It shouldn't be up to you to try a 1000 different things hoping to find the one thing that works. She'll always have a new excuse (that's completely made up) that you'll end up having to work around. Instead, her mindset needs to be that intimacy is as important as all the important things in marriage and she can't just take that out of the marriage.

Even if it is a chore to her, she need to at a minimum realize that it's a chore that must be done. Does she have to be in the mood to do laundry, mow the yard, wash her car, etc? Does she only do those things 6 times a year when she feels like it? Probably not. She realizes those things are just normal parts of life and she does them without thinking about all the ways to get out of them.


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## Blondilocks

A weekend away is not going to fix this. An empty nest will not fix this. 

The only chance you have of not enduring a sexless marriage (sex less than ten times per year) is to have those difficult conversations with her. 

You're only 44 and I can guarantee that there are plenty of women who would love to have a husband like you. I can also guarantee that very few men are hankering for a wife who puts out 6 times a year.

You need to shake up her world. You need to get serious about fixing this or move along to divorce court. Right now, you're just doing time on Maple Drive.


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## EleGirl

@Construction Worker

How many hours a week do you two spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy (quality time)?

How often do the two of you go on dates?


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## jorgegene

Wow, I feel for you brother, cause I've been there.

When I was in a sexless relationship and realized she was truly frigid, i gave up.
I let her have it (verbally), and then never brought it up again.
I mean never, ever, ever, ever asked her for sex again. 

If I were in your shoes (and this is just me, don't take this as advice necessarily), I'd either marry 
my right hand (which I did), or leave (which I eventually did).


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## Construction Worker

EleGirl said:


> @Construction Worker
> 
> How many hours a week do you two spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy (quality time)?
> 
> How often do the two of you go on dates?


Not much! Work and kids activities are always there. 

We do try to go out, just us two, at least once a month. I’ve tried to increase that to once a week, even if it’s something simple like taking a walk or getting ice cream.


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## AliceA

Construction Worker said:


> She’s a bit more moody, I’m sure that comes with age / menopause. She had surgery last year to remove a cyst around her lady parts, but we were still probably around half a dozen times per year prior to that. She Doesn’t think she looks all that good anymore, but I don’t think she’s got self esteem issues, she will walk around in front of me in her underwear or even mostly naked and not bat an eyelid. It sucks, because I am still very much attracted to her, and she must think I’m kidding when I tell her she’s my dream girl.


Self-esteem can very definitely still be an issue, even though she's showing you her body. You are safe, you are the father of her children. Does she wear a bikini at the beach? Does she work out, do yoga, anything? Doing more with her body will make her more aware of her body. It helps a great deal with a person's body image.

As for hormones, they can play a major role in libido issues. Taking hormone contraceptives for much of our lives can have a pretty detrimental effect on some women. It takes a lot of time and effort to get things back to where they should be. I know because I'm on that journey right now.

Another important factor is feeling like your partner thinks you are beautiful. You have to make sure to tell her, make sure when she's walking around in her underwear that she knows you are attracted to her.

Edited to add: I strongly suggest you get the book The 5 Love Languages by Dr Gary Chapman and read it. Then give it to your wife to read.


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## AVR1962

If my husband would have done this after 18 years marriage I would have done the same as your wife quite honestly. The focus for men seems to be sex, we see and don't appreciate it as there is alot more to us and life as a married couple. I am assuming your wife was turned off because there is not enough out of the bedroom connection, whether that is emotional support or just the occasional hug and kiss that does not lead to anything else. We need to know that we are appreciated and wanted for more than sex.


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## Mr. Nail

It would be better to focus your energy elsewhere. You have been shown the truth completely. Such a lovely anniversary gift. She bared her soul instead of her body. An intimacy she didn't intend. Now you know her disgust and despise of you. How will you use the glimpse you have been given? 

With the children on the short side of 18 your losses will be low, should you decide to laugh in return. If you decide to wait it out, fill your life with things that give back. She is happy with 1 date a month and sex every other date. That leaves you time to pursue two or three fulfilling hobbies. She won't even notice that you are gone.

FYI, you are not oversexed, and you think of much more than just sex. Those are just automatic female defense accusations, fired without thinking. I can clearly see what you have built into this. Your wife has thrown it away.


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## MattMatt

I would suggest couple's counselling at a minimum.


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## 23cm

I suggest you do some reading and start with Reddit “deadbedrooms “. Also deadbedted has a wealth of info for men and women who definitely don’t want to be where they are...where you are. And, you are not alone. Here’s a summary: it won’t get better. It will get worse.


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## EleGirl

Construction Worker said:


> Not much! Work and kids activities are always there.
> 
> We do try to go out, just us two, at least once a month. I’ve tried to increase that to once a week, even if it’s something simple like taking a walk or getting ice cream.


Ok, so the two of you basically don't have a relationship except what it takes to run a household and raise kids. This kind of neglect of the relationship is typically what makes marriages fail. You are both responsible for the current state of your relationship. The good thing is that it can be fixed.

Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order and do the work that they suggest. Then once you have learned what needs to be done, ask her to read the books with you and the two of you do the work together.

The love and passion can be rebuilt in a marriage if the couple is willing to do the work. It often takes one of them to take the lead.


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## AliceA

I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a relationship here. The fact that you didn't speak of your hurt to her after the incident you mentioned says there is no communication. The fact that she felt no empathy for you nor you for her says you are both very detached from one another. Love dies and what is left is habit and obligation and we blindly carry on thinking it's love when it hasn't been for a long time.

Romantic love is more than just a dinner out once a week. It's intimacy, passion and commitment. You have commitment. You both need to work together to get back the rest and I think you need help from someone outside the situation to get an honest picture of where you are both at in the relationship.


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## Diana7

Construction Worker said:


> Hi All, I’m a 44 year old construction worker who has been pretty much happily married to my wife for 18 years, with 3 kids ranging in ages from mid teens to preteens. The only hangup I have in our relationship is a lack of intimacy. We may have sex 6 times a year. I would have it every night if I could, but she just isn’t often interested. She’s 44 as well. We never had sex every day during our marriage, but when we were young, it was multiple times per week. I have tried to be romantic, I have tried to be dominant, I have tried begging, I have tried different times of the day, but sex is reserved for only when she wants it, and she is always the instigator. If I want it there is always an excuse, the old headache excuse, the kids might still be awake, period, etc. What really frustrates me is that when she wants it, I give it, I can’t say no, and the sex is fantastic, I want it the next day, but it’s always back to normal, no time, kids, don’t feel good, etc. I also workout, run, lift free weights, eat healthy, so my libido is very high.
> 
> Well, the other day it was our anniversary. I had a plan on our anniversary night that would make me irresistible to her. I had been secretly taking some sexy selfies of myself that I would present to her on our anniversary night, and do a Striptease for her in my construction gear. On our anniversary, I got the kids out of the house for the night. We went to her favorite restaurant, walked around a bit in our favorite part of town, held hands, it was great. I flirted with her, she flirted back...it was working! Got home, snuck some yellow roses (her favorite) into the bedroom, put on the red light, had my selfies on the iPad next to the flowers, put my construction stuff on (hard hat, vest, jeans, tool belt) and called her upstairs. She was so happy to see the flowers, but saw the pictures and me and burst out laughing. That’s ok, I thought, don’t take me too serious! She swiped through a couple of pictures, I turned on some music and she turned beet red in the face. Couldn’t even make it past pic #3. And the pics weren’t lazy d—k pics, I tried to be artsy, even funny, just a few pics in my construction gear without a shirt on. She gave me a nice hug, thanked me for the flowers, she said she can’t do this and left the room. I was left humiliated, confused, embarrassed, devastated. I put some normal clothes on, went downstairs, and it was like nothing ever happened. She told me I might have to go pick up our oldest from a friend’s house at midnight and talked about the business of the following day. I didn't really say anything and went to bed. This was a couple of days ago, and I have tried to act normal and not brought it up, even though I am still very hurt by what happened.
> 
> So do I try to discuss this with her? She rolls her eyes and shuts down when I want to bring up the subjects of sex and intimacy, so I try not to. Did I go too far with the selfies and Striptease that I didn’t get a chance to perform? I want to tell her I’m sure there are plenty of wives in the world that would appreciate and enjoy the gesture, especially given the shape I’m in, but I’m not even sure that’s true. I’m just to the point where I’m ready to give up on having a “normal” sexual relationship with my wife, and I don’t like where that may lead...any husbands out there ever try selfies and Stripteases to spice things up, with or without success? Anything else I can try?


I think that you made the classic mistake that so many make, and that is assuming that your wife wants the gestures that you would like. So maybe your thought process went like this. I would love my wife to take some sexy pictures of herself to send me, and that she would do a striptease. So, I will do the same. It rarely works because men and women ate different in what they like and what turns them on. Hence why she loved the flowers but laughed at the rest. 

Having said that, I think its sad that your wife won't make an effort for you. Maybe some good MC may help, but I do think she needs to know that for you this cant go on. That the marriage is at serious risk.


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## In Absentia

You've married my wife... :laugh:

I can tell you, nothing will work. You don't have a relationship anymore. It's all family and kids. Sit her down and have a serious talk. Maybe suggest marriage counselling. My inkling is that she doesn't love you anymore. She cares about you but she's lost the spark for you and she is trudging along giving you a little bit of sex to keep you happy. Mind you, if she agrees to step up, she will be doing it for you, until you are are empty-nested. The fact that the sex is good when you have it, means nothing. She gets turned on and she enjoys it, but it doesn't mean she is prepared to do it all the time... once in a while is nice. Or I really do hope that she has an epiphany and everything will be ok. Somehow, I doubt it. I've been there.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

EveningThoughts said:


> Loving that you put so much effort in
> 
> But if your wife does not have much libido, then a striptease and sexy pics would have been way too much for her. That's more for someone with a drive as high as yours.
> 
> When a person is not much into sex, moves like might even seem a bit repulsive and overtly sexual rather than romantic and loving.
> 
> Did she used to like more risque sex, and perhaps do striptease for you? Is that her style? Did she like you being dominant?
> 
> She was with you on the romantic side and possibly up to some sex until you made it about *your over sexed self*. Then it possibly became all too much for her.


Until H made it about "his oversexed self" ?

H shared they have sex about six times a year. How does that translate into "oversexed" 

Respectfully this contradicts the info shared.

And there's nothing wrong with a H planning a sexual encounter with his W, I mean, who else is he supposed to plan to have sex with?

How in the world is it being implied it's the H fault for an unsuccessful evening?

Whaaattt?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

AVR1962 said:


> If my husband would have done this after 18 years marriage I would have done the same as your wife quite honestly. The focus for men seems to be sex, we see and don't appreciate it as there is alot more to us and life as a married couple. I am assuming your wife was turned off because there is not enough out of the bedroom connection, whether that is emotional support or just the occasional hug and kiss that does not lead to anything else. We need to know that we are appreciated and wanted for more than sex.


Pffffttt!!

There's nothing in the info that indicates OP ignores his W unless he wants sex.


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## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How in the world is it being implied it's the H fault for an unsuccessful evening?
> 
> Whaaattt?



Well, he did go a bit over the top with it. It just shows that he hasn't got a clue about what his wife is or wants... right or wrong. But he's getting his wake-up call at last.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

But he's trying. It seems that, on their anniversary, she would have responded similar to "that's nice dear, not what I was looking for, I was looking for this (and dear God tell him what she's looking for) and turn in around to an evening that still has the evening ending with some closeness, and sexual intimacy too.

I mean, they have been married 18 years.

If Hs actions weren't what she was looking for she's had plenty of time to for God's sake tell him.

And take some responsibility at least to create some closeness with her H. 

I mean really. 

It takes two to tango. 😘😘


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## Mr. Nail

EleGirl said:


> Ok, so the two of you basically don't have a relationship except what it takes to run a household and raise kids. This kind of neglect of the relationship is typically what makes marriages fail. You are both responsible for the current state of your relationship. The good thing is that it can be fixed.
> 
> Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order and do the work that they suggest. Then once you have learned what needs to be done, ask her to read the books with you and the two of you do the work together.
> 
> The love and passion can be rebuilt in a marriage *if the couple is willing to do the work.* It often takes one of them to take the lead.


To throw a bit of cold water on suzannah/ pollyanna, This only works when the *couple* is willing. It never works when one member despises the other. It is a rare gift you have been given, More often disgruntled wives hide their feelings and leave you hoop jumping for scraps of affection. In your unique situation these books would be as likely to help you as Ele's recommendations. Bushcraft 101 or Tactical fly fishing If you want to take up reading, My very serious suggestion is you choose something you enjoy for a change. 

This translates into other areas of life. If you make breakfast, make what you like. If you go on an outing, go where you like. If you buy flowers, Buy what you like. * Getting respect starts by giving it to yourself.*


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## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It takes two to tango. 😘😘


yes, exactly... she's checked out... 6 times in a year? It tells you everything there is to know. I was upset with 24...


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## ConanHub

Construction Worker said:


> She’s a bit more moody, I’m sure that comes with age / menopause. She had surgery last year to remove a cyst around her lady parts, but we were still probably around half a dozen times per year prior to that. She Doesn’t think she looks all that good anymore, but I don’t think she’s got self esteem issues, she will walk around in front of me in her underwear or even mostly naked and not bat an eyelid. It sucks, because I am still very much attracted to her, and she must think I’m kidding when I tell her she’s my dream girl.
> 
> If I beg in bed, I try to keep it light, simple, joking around. Maybe she doesn’t think I’m serious. When I say dominance, I just move in on her aggressively but she just pushes me away and kind of laughs and says not tonight...


Ok partner. No one can tell exactly what her problem is, and she does have a problem, but what is clear is that she has zero respect for you as a man. She doesn't even consider you a man.

You are a paycheck/provider/father/brother figure/roommate.

You have probably been far too accommodating of the illusions she has built up over the years.

You need a come to Jesus meeting with real consequences that will result if you don't want to continue being a disrespected, controlled little boy thing.

You do have to understand that she might be just fine with her contemptuous behavior towards you and you might have to be willing to end it unless you are willing to put up with it.

I would start getting your legal ducks in a row. See what your options are so you know your rights beforehand and you are prepared in case keeping you as a castrated pet is her goal.

She needs to understand that her contempt is unhealthy and unacceptable for you to want to consider continuing with her.

Read a couple of books. No More Mr. Nice Guy, What Do Women Want by Daniel Bergner, The Love Language series, Love Buster's.

You might want to implement some form of the 180 because she is flat out harming you emotionally.

She needs to understand that she is seriously harming the marriage, endangering her children's future because she has such contempt for the father of her children that she is destroying her relationship and for what?


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## BluesPower

In Absentia said:


> yes, exactly... she's checked out... 6 times in a year? It tells you everything there is to know. I was upset with 24...


Well look at you IA giving advice like a pro... 

OP, it is time to get out of this marriage. I know you don't like that though, I know you think you love her, I get it. 

Like IA said, she has checked out and sounds like she has been for a while. 

The chance of saving this marriage and having it be properly sexual and happy are about. 

If she is having an affair, about a 50% chance, it is less than a zero percent chance... 

Time to get out.


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## In Absentia

BluesPower said:


> Well look at you IA giving advice like a pro...


:laugh: I've learnt a lot here... and from you too. I was like the OP...


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## Tron

Construction Worker said:


> If I beg in bed, I try to keep it light, simple, joking around. Maybe she doesn’t think I’m serious. When I say dominance, I just move in on her aggressively but _she just pushes me away and kind of laughs and says not tonight..._


That is when you non-chalantly say "fair enough", get dressed up (looking sharp) and head out to topless bar for a couple of hours.

You are in what most experts consider a "sexless" marriage. So far there have been no consequences for her bad behavior. You continue to pursue and get shot down and continue as before. Lather, wash, rinse, repeat. 

It's probably time for a serious sit-down with her. Tell her in clear terms that her treatment of you on the anniversary was hurtful, that your needs in the marriage are not being met and that you are considering divorce. I would also mention that you want to stay together, if possible, and that you'd be interested in some marriage counseling. If she accepts then great, you've got a starting point.

It wouldn't hurt to read some of the books the other folks her have mentioned. This would at the very least help you figure out what a healthy relationship looks like and what you might be doing to contribute to the poor dynamics.

It sounds like this has been your sex life for a long time, but just to rule out any medical reasons, has your W ever been diagnosed with depression or is she on any anti-depressants? A full blood panel might also help just to rule out any medical issues.

Also calling @MEM2020


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## Ursula

Honestly, it sounds like your wife has checked out of the marriage, and when that happens, it’s really tough to check back in. My suggestion for you guys would either be a marriage counsellor or a sex therapist. Good luck, and I hope that everything works out for you guys!


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## EmeryB

I know so many women who have lost their sex drives. It is very common. Not sure if it's usually a hormonal issue, depression, stress, overwork with a job and kids, or straight-up boredom with their partners. Sadly, I have never seen this situation turn around. For the most part, once the libido is gone, it's gone. I agree that you need to have a serious conversation about this with your wife, and maybe counseling would help, but it's possible nothing will ever change. You will eventually have to decide if the rest of the marriage makes little-to-no-sex worthwhile, or if it's important enough to you to actually divorce your wife and move on.


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## wilson

While success is rare, it does happen. Although, to be fair, the definition of success will likely be different than what you're hoping for. What the "successful" couples often end up with is something where they are having sex for emotional bonding rather than for fun or passion. They work on their relationship and build an emotional bond such that when sex happens, it's something she's doing because she loves you and wants to make you happy. She may never get to the point where she's so passionate that she tears your clothes off, but it's doable to get to the point where you're having meaningful sex about once a week.

Every couple is different. The best you can end up is pretty unknown at this point. But it's important to set your expectations so that you're happy with what is possible to achieve rather than being disappointed that everything you want doesn't come true.


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## AVR1962

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But he's trying. It seems that, on their anniversary, she would have responded similar to "that's nice dear, not what I was looking for, I was looking for this (and dear God tell him what she's looking for) and turn in around to an evening that still has the evening ending with some closeness, and sexual intimacy too.
> 
> I mean, they have been married 18 years.
> 
> If Hs actions weren't what she was looking for she's had plenty of time to for God's sake tell him.
> 
> And take some responsibility at least to create some closeness with her H.
> 
> I mean really.
> 
> It takes two to tango. 😘😘


Yes but as I have said before, what happens outside of the bedroom effects what goes on inside of the bedroom. There is a reason she did not respond in the way he wanted.


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## 3Xnocharm

I feel like the whole anniversary debacle proves how much disconnection there is between you two. Honestly, you should have known that she would NOT respond positively to being presented with sexy photos and a striptease. You should KNOW HER by now, and while your efforts were commendable, they show just how much you really dont. I think its crappy that she laughed at you though, thats beyond disrespectful to do to your spouse. 

I know it sucks, but you need to have a real, productive conversation about all of this. She needs to be made aware of what a serious issue this is for you. And YOU need to know if something is going on with HER that is affecting her attraction and desire for you. Resentment? Regret? Health issue? It sounds like you guys really need to start spending quality time together, reconnecting.


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## Chaparral

You’re definitely in a sexless marriage. 

Do regularly take your wife out on date nights?

You absolutely have to look at her phone records to see if anything is strange? Does she keep her phone locked an with her all the time? She has time for an affair though it may not look like it. 

Often, women that have been sexually abused as a youngster turn sex off after kids.

You must get marriage counseling. 

Buy the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. It is specifically designed for this situation. Download it on your phone from Amazon. 

Every man that comes here says there is no way his wife could or would have an affair.


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## Yeswecan

Construction Worker said:


> No, she works a part time job and takes the kids to their after school or nightly activities. I don’t believe she has time to mess around with someone else, so I don’t believe infidelity is a concern.


I suspect that your wife is tired and much on her mind with kids to look after plus a part time job. However, the laughing at you for strip tease is completely wrong. Sorry she did this to you. I'm not sure why you did not speak up after you planned dinner, got the kids a sitter, purchased flowers and attempt to make it a memorable evening. I would not blame you if you never went to those great lengths again. It is a major rejection on your her part and should be told as such. 

Next time your wife initiates simply laugh and walk away. Let her feel the rejection. Seems childish but sometimes actions like this are the only way to get through to some people.


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## Yeswecan

Construction Worker said:


> She’s a bit more moody, I’m sure that comes with age / menopause. She had surgery last year to remove a cyst around her lady parts, but we were still probably around half a dozen times per year prior to that. She Doesn’t think she looks all that good anymore, but I don’t think she’s got self esteem issues, she will walk around in front of me in her underwear or even mostly naked and not bat an eyelid. It sucks, because I am still very much attracted to her, and she must think I’m kidding when I tell her she’s my dream girl.
> 
> If I beg in bed, I try to keep it light, simple, joking around. Maybe she doesn’t think I’m serious. When I say dominance, I just move in on her aggressively but she just pushes me away and kind of laughs and says not tonight...


Sex is part of marriage. It is a large part of marriage. Does you wife not get this? 

I hate when a wife will say, "You are supposed to say I'm beautiful(sexy). You're my husband. That is what husband say." As if it has not fricking meaning what so ever. It invalidates you. My wife would say this to me. I flat out told her eye to eye I mean what I say. It is not fluff so you hand me the remote. Not until I did this did that silly crap of your my husband and you supposed to say that did it stop.


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## Livvie

Yeswecan said:


> Construction Worker said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, she works a part time job and takes the kids to their after school or nightly activities. I don’t believe she has time to mess around with someone else, so I don’t believe infidelity is a concern.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that your wife is tired and much on her mind with kids to look after plus a part time job. However, the laughing at you for strip tease is completely wrong. Sorry she did this to you. I'm not sure why you did not speak up after you planned dinner, got the kids a sitter, purchased flowers and attempt to make it a memorable evening. I would not blame you if you never went to those great lengths again. It is a major rejection on your her part and should be told as such.
> 
> Next time your wife initiates simply laugh and walk away. Let her feel the rejection. Seems childish but sometimes actions like this are the only way to get through to some people.
Click to expand...

Eh. The kids aren't young. He said preteen, mid teen. And she only works part time. A person should be able to handle older kids and part time work and still be interested in their husband.


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## Yeswecan

Construction Worker said:


> It’s been festering for years now, and I agree, now is the perfect time to to get serious, but I guess I’ve been afraid of upsetting the status quo by getting serious, because other than a lack of intimacy, things are fine, we get along, we don’t argue much, have common interests, but even that might be because we aren’t around each other a lot on weekdays due to jobs, kids activities, and on the weekends we are often around friends or family or out at the soccer fields or basketball courts. I think maybe we just need to get away from it all for a weekend.


This is a large problem...kids and the activities. You two need to make each other first. Spend no less than 15 hours a week together sans kids. It is the only way to stay connected. It appears you are just room mates.


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## Yeswecan

Construction Worker said:


> Not much! Work and kids activities are always there.
> 
> We do try to go out, just us two, at least once a month. I’ve tried to increase that to once a week, even if it’s something simple like taking a walk or getting ice cream.


This needs to change. Your priorities are mixed up. You and your W need to make yourselves priorities to each other. Keep working the dates nights, going for walks and anything that gets you away from the kids for a period of enjoying each other. Do it as often as you can. It is the only way to reconnect and stay connected.


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## Yeswecan

Livvie said:


> Eh. The kids aren't young. He said preteen, mid teen. And she only works part time. A person should be able to handle older kids and part time work and still be interested in their husband.


Not all. This appears to be one of them. However, I see a major disconnect here. Room mates raising kids. That is all. It can be fixed if both are willing.


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## skerzoid

AVR1962 said:


> If my husband would have done this after 18 years marriage I would have done the same as your wife quite honestly. The focus for men seems to be sex, we see and don't appreciate it as there is alot more to us and life as a married couple. I am assuming your wife was turned off because there is not enough out of the bedroom connection, whether that is emotional support or just the occasional hug and kiss that does not lead to anything else. We need to know that we are appreciated and wanted for more than sex.


"To have and to hold" Thats a deal breaker if she breaks her vow. Sex is a human need. There is a male poster on here that did the same thing with his wife (ignored her pleas for sex and romance), and she flew halfway around the world to have an affair with some "Gameboy". 

If you are saying that men need sex more than women, you are being sexist. Women need it, but have to live with the consequences. We see couples on here all the time where the woman is being deprived of sex. Very few couples have exactly the same sex drive. 

God made sex a human need in order to get us to multiply. Looking down one's nose at nasty, sex crazed men ignores the human instinct in all of us. 

As women have moved out of the home and into the corporate world, they have shown a tremendous growth in infidelity. They get the hots for "strange" just as men do. 

Also, we have seen women desperate for sex do the dress up sexy (in fact that is one of the first signs of cheating) and throw themselves at their husbands (or others) so I disagree with your point of view.

My wife and I are approaching our Golden Anniversary, and we both enjoy spicing things up, in fact, our love life is better than ever!:wink2:


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## Casual Observer

AVR1962 said:


> Yes but as I have said before, what happens outside of the bedroom effects what goes on inside of the bedroom. There is a reason she did not respond in the way he wanted.


At the same time I fail to see why it falls entirely onto the guy to recognize and deal with the problem. Why shouldn't the wife think that sex on such a rare basis might be a problem? Why shouldn't the wife have concerns that a sub-par sex life at home could lead to issues not just including seeking sex elsewhere, but other problems down the road? 

I don't know what's in his wife's head, and all we have here is his version, which might not accurately describe even his own state of mind. Given that, I think it's wrong to pounce immediately upon him and make assumptions that the bedroom issues are the result of things that he is doing. It might not be. She could be someone like my wife who, if left to her own thinking, would be perfectly happy with sex once a month. Possibly even less. Because even though she often enjoys sex (oral sex in particular), she has no ability whatsoever to look forward to it. Nor did she understand its overall importance to "us" because she could relate only to her own needs and desires. Anything on my part was essentially selfish. Is that an OK way to think? Or I should say, is that an OK way to let things continue?

Here's what's missing from my relationship with my wife, and maybe his. My wife won't say "Not tonight, I'm not feeling it (or whatever), but I'll make it up to you tomorrow." 

Please note that my wife and I are in the process of addressing our issues and things are better now, regarding intimacy and the bedroom and shared time etc., than probably any other time in our life. Wednesday we start marriage counseling. After 40 years, still a work in progress and with much hope for the future. Also, I never, ever, considered letting the frequency of sex slide off the chart. I didn't let things get anything like what I read about here. And perhaps, in some ways, I paid a price for that. She acted out in other ways, and eventually came the revelation that she resented sex with me. Which brought our world to a screaming halt. Our world, not just mine. She had to make a choice. I had already changed my mindset about helping around the house, taking care of whatever she needed, making the bed every single day, bringing flowers, eliminating criticism. basically making her life a lot easier and more pleasant. And to hear her say the things she did turned things upside down. And thank God it did. 

Sorry for the ramble. Just wanted to make it clear that there's more to marriage than absolute respect for the privacy of your partner's body. Marriage is a shared experience. In bed, we share something with our wife or husband that we share with nobody else in the world. That's one of the reasons infidelity is such a terrible thing. There just isn't anything else close, for most of us.


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## Mr. Nail

AVR1962 said:


> Yes but as I have said before, what happens outside of the bedroom effects what goes on inside of the bedroom. There is a reason she did not respond in the way he wanted.


I can accept this but wish to add two very similar statements to it to help make it more useful.
what happens outside of the bedroom, affects what goes on inside of the bedroom
what happens inside of the bedroom, affects what goes on outside of the bedroom
what happens in any other bedroom, affects what goes on inside of the bedroom


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## wilson

I think most of us would consider intimacy as one of the foundational properties of marriage. Some of the others might be communication, shared responsibility for household/children, and fidelity. There are certain things that just need to be there without the responsibility falling on your spouse to make it happen. For example, can anyone imagine the case where a spouse said "I just don't feel like being faithful anymore. If you want fidelity, it's 100% of your responsibility to figure out and make me feel like being faithful. Until then, I'm going to be unfaithful and expect the marriage to chug along like nothing's wrong." Of course that's crazy, but it's the attitude we see around low/no intimacy all the time. Certainly both spouses need to be making the marriage work, but it's incredibly naive for one spouse to think that they can remove a foundational property of the marriage without any negative consequences.


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## Chaparral

If she is this distant, she may just be waiting for the kids to get older and to bail on your marriage. She may be resentful for actions you have committed and that she did not communicate to you.

You really need a come to Jesus moment with her and let her know you are not willing to be just roommates. But first I would do some investigating. Women that work full time and have little kids including babies find plenty of time to cheat. You can read thousands of examples of that and also your story on these threads.


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## ConanHub

Mr. Nail said:


> I can accept this but wish to add two very similar statements to it to help make it more useful.
> what happens outside of the bedroom, affects what goes on inside of the bedroom
> what happens inside of the bedroom, affects what goes on outside of the bedroom
> what happens in any other bedroom, affects what goes on inside of the bedroom


Can I hear an AMEN!:grin2:


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## bandit.45

AVR1962 said:


> Yes but as I have said before, what happens outside of the bedroom effects what goes on inside of the bedroom. There is a reason she did not respond in the way he wanted.


Yeah...

She's selfish and entitled.


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## bandit.45

OP you need to sit her down and lay I all on the line. Tell her that either the two of you go to MC and hash out what is going on between the two of you, and try to get to the bottom of why she has a bug up her ass, or you will start looking at other more drastic options such as dissolving the marriage. 

You didn't marry her in the expectation of being a celibate monk. That is not what marriage is. I doubt she has a basic understanding of what marriage is. 

But at the core, it sounds like you married to gain a wife and she married to gain a family. Once those kids are grown... she's not going to need you anymore and she's going to be gone brother. I would make the preemptive strike if I were you.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

You have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. 

Here are some links for your wife - https://forgivenwife.com/archives-moment-hard-truth/ 

Your Husband's Hurt | The Forgiven Wife


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## Construction Worker

Blondilocks said:


> A weekend away is not going to fix this. An empty nest will not fix this.
> 
> The only chance you have of not enduring a sexless marriage (sex less than ten times per year) is to have those difficult conversations with her.
> 
> You're only 44 and I can guarantee that there are plenty of women who would love to have a husband like you. I can also guarantee that very few men are hankering for a wife who puts out 6 times a year.
> 
> You need to shake up her world. You need to get serious about fixing this or move along to divorce court. Right now, you're just doing time on Maple Drive.


So I was able to go on a walk with the wife tonight, had some coffee, and told her how hurt I was over what happened on out anniversary night. She looked embarrassed and apologized for her actions. She told me that she would have reacted much worse than I had the situation been reversed. I asked why she reacted the way she did. She said that while she enjoys looking at my body, she didn’t like the “artificial” setting of it all. To me, it was just another excuse, but there have been others who have chimed in and claimed they would have had the same reaction, fair enough, but her loss >

I asked her why we are never intimate. I asked her if she was no longer attractive to me. She replied she is always tired, no energy, can’t feel that way when the kids are in the house, all the things she has said before. I told her to go to bed earlier ( she often goes to bed well after midnight and is up at about 5:30), and that the kids won’t hear, know, or care. She did promise me that she would try harder for me, for whatever that’s worth. Last night I was in bed by 10:30, I stayed up as long as I could, waiting for her. She came in well after midnight, but at least she snuggled up with me, she usually just goes straight to sleep. At this point, that was enough for me, I wasn’t about to go any further. I’m looking to make small improvements, take small steps, move forward. Maybe I’m stupid, maybe I’m naive, but I’m just not ready to give up yet. I’ll see how the next couple of weeks are and if they go backwards I’m going to recommend counseling for us. I did bring this up and she said she would be willing to do that.


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## Construction Worker

AliceA said:


> Self-esteem can very definitely still be an issue, even though she's showing you her body. You are safe, you are the father of her children. Does she wear a bikini at the beach? Does she work out, do yoga, anything? Doing more with her body will make her more aware of her body. It helps a great deal with a person's body image.
> 
> As for hormones, they can play a major role in libido issues. Taking hormone contraceptives for much of our lives can have a pretty detrimental effect on some women. It takes a lot of time and effort to get things back to where they should be. I know because I'm on that journey right now.
> 
> Another important factor is feeling like your partner thinks you are beautiful. You have to make sure to tell her, make sure when she's walking around in her underwear that she knows you are attracted to her.
> 
> Edited to add: I strongly suggest you get the book The 5 Love Languages by Dr Gary Chapman and read it. Then give it to your wife to read.


She is somewhat shy about her body, her self esteem isn’t great, it’s not terrible, typical for a 44 year old woman, I guess. She is not in terrible shape, but she doesn’t exercise as she tells me she doesn’t have the energy. She would never wear a bikini, and I think it may be possible that some of her issues stem from me being in good shape. I ask her to go running with me, sometimes she will walk and I’ll run, but it’s not enough to swing her libido around, mine is through the roof because I work out.

And I tell her she looks beautiful all the time, not too much so it just becomes normal and everyday and boring, but enough that she knows I am sincere. IF I see her in the kitchen cooking after work, I give her little kisses on the back of her neck, it used to drive her crazy in a good way. Now, little to no reaction. If I see her in the bathroom with her underwear on, sometimes I give her a playful catcall, other times I am more serious and tell her she looks incredible, and she honestly is to me. When we were talking last night, I told her she was still my dream girl. She gave me a shy look that I haven’t seen in ages. I took it as another small step in the right direction.

Thanks for the book recommendation! Will be sure to check it out.


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## Construction Worker

AVR1962 said:


> If my husband would have done this after 18 years marriage I would have done the same as your wife quite honestly. The focus for men seems to be sex, we see and don't appreciate it as there is alot more to us and life as a married couple. I am assuming your wife was turned off because there is not enough out of the bedroom connection, whether that is emotional support or just the occasional hug and kiss that does not lead to anything else. We need to know that we are appreciated and wanted for more than sex.


I acted as I did out of desperation, stupid as it may have been in retrospect, my idea was sincere. I have tried romance. I try to go out of my way to be understanding. I tell her she’s beautiful. I’ve gone back to the peck on the cheek before I leave for work that I used to do years ago, tell her I love her, have a good day. I tried a cheesy striptease, yeah so I’m an idiot. I am sincere when I do these things, but none of it has worked. My (more than) occasional hugs and kisses never have lead to anything, and 99% of the time I know they won’t and and sex isn’t even on my mind when I do these things. I wonder if she’s just not interested at all in sex, not just with me, but anyone?


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## Construction Worker

23cm said:


> I suggest you do some reading and start with Reddit “deadbedrooms “. Also deadbedted has a wealth of info for men and women who definitely don’t want to be where they are...where you are. And, you are not alone. Here’s a summary: it won’t get better. It will get worse.


Just reading this message board, and doing some internet reading, it’s amazing the amount of men or women who are in the same situation as me, which is unfortunate but at the same time gives me some comfort that I’m not alone. I wonder what the percentage of sexless marriages are?


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## Tron

Construction Worker said:


> I wonder if she’s just not interested at all in sex, not just with me, but anyone?


It is possible. Some folks are asexual.

Is she interested in women?


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## Construction Worker

Diana7 said:


> I think that you made the classic mistake that so many make, and that is assuming that your wife wants the gestures that you would like. So maybe your thought process went like this. I would love my wife to take some sexy pictures of herself to send me, and that she would do a striptease. So, I will do the same. It rarely works because men and women ate different in what they like and what turns them on. Hence why she loved the flowers but laughed at the rest.
> 
> Having said that, I think its sad that your wife won't make an effort for you. Maybe some good MC may help, but I do think she needs to know that for you this cant go on. That the marriage is at serious risk.


You’re probably right, as I mentioned previously if my wife sent me pictures or did a striptease for me I’d die of a heart attack on the spot, though I’d die very happily :wink2:

But the fact that she just laughed it off and left the room hurt...but, as someone else posted, perhaps it was for the best, and at least it was honest.


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## AliceA

Construction Worker said:


> So I was able to go on a walk with the wife tonight, had some coffee, and told her how hurt I was over what happened on out anniversary night. She looked embarrassed and apologized for her actions. She told me that she would have reacted much worse than I had the situation been reversed. I asked why she reacted the way she did. She said that while she enjoys looking at my body, she didn’t like the “artificial” setting of it all. To me, it was just another excuse, but there have been others who have chimed in and claimed they would have had the same reaction, fair enough, but her loss >
> 
> I asked her why we are never intimate. I asked her if she was no longer attractive to me. She replied she is always tired, no energy, can’t feel that way when the kids are in the house, all the things she has said before. I told her to go to bed earlier ( she often goes to bed well after midnight and is up at about 5:30), and that the kids won’t hear, know, or care. She did promise me that she would try harder for me, for whatever that’s worth. Last night I was in bed by 10:30, I stayed up as long as I could, waiting for her. She came in well after midnight, but at least she snuggled up with me, she usually just goes straight to sleep. At this point, that was enough for me, I wasn’t about to go any further. I’m looking to make small improvements, take small steps, move forward. Maybe I’m stupid, maybe I’m naive, but I’m just not ready to give up yet. I’ll see how the next couple of weeks are and if they go backwards I’m going to recommend counseling for us. I did bring this up and she said she would be willing to do that.


I think you did great in bringing this up. It's so hard to have these discussions. Her willingness to talk about it is a great sign.

I see her making the same mistake so many women do though. She is burning the candle at both ends. Her body and mind is suffering. What is she doing up until midnight? Does she go to bed so late because she has trouble falling asleep and/or wakes up during the night a lot? Does she get PMS and problems around her period? If so, I can suggest a book I've used: How To Heal Your Metabolism By Kate Deering

You are taking the time to look after your health. Unfortunately your wife is not and she'll never get better until she starts putting her health first. I've tried hard to get a friend of mine to do this but she refuses to even try, BUT, if her husband encouraged her, I think it'd be a different story.


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## Blondilocks

Your wife doesn't have an issue with you seeing her undressed so you can nix the body issue excuse.

You need to figure out what she is doing while staying up past midnight. Time management is a hallmark of being an adult and she is failing. As it is, she is choosing her private time over time with her husband. The 'I'm tired' excuse is a no go. 

Have you checked the history on her computer and devices? Peeked at her phone?


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## Chaparral

She goes to bed late to avoid you. You need to find out what she is doing even if it’s watching tv. Check the phone bill. 

You did not answer if you still take her out. Does she go out with the girls for girls night out?


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## She'sStillGotIt

Chaparral said:


> She goes to bed late to avoid you. You need to find out what she is doing even if it’s watching tv. Check the phone bill.
> 
> You did not answer if you still take her out. Does she go out with the girls for girls night out?


 Back when my son was was a toddler, I would put him to bed and then wait for 10:30 when my husband would go to bed. 

After they were both in bed and it was just me, that was my favorite time of the day. That was my 'me' time and I loved it. For a couple of hours, I got to enjoy the peace and quiet without someone always wanting something and I could catch up with my soap operas that I'd taped (LOL...this was back in the 80's).

Time management may not be the OPs problem. A desire for some 'me' time and to be left alone without everyone wanting something from her is a very likely possibility.


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## 20yr

Construction Worker said:


> She replied she is always tired, no energy, can’t feel that way when the kids are in the house, all the things she has said before.


Has she has a physical lately? At her age, I developed a thyroid problem. It leaves you extremely fatigued and moody, you start to gain weight. It can be detected in a simple blood test and treated with a daily pill.


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## farsidejunky

CW:

You are still trying to push a rope.

Do you really think giving her larger helpings of what her actions clearly show she does not want is going to work?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie

20yr said:


> Construction Worker said:
> 
> 
> 
> She replied she is always tired, no energy, can’t feel that way when the kids are in the house, all the things she has said before.
> 
> 
> 
> Has she has a physical lately? At her age, I developed a thyroid problem. It leaves you extremely fatigued and moody, you start to gain weight. It can be detected in a simple blood test and treated with a daily pill.
Click to expand...

She stays up until midnight. She can't be that tired, right?


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## Mr. Nail

2 things
there is a pretty good chance that she sees anything that you do as an attempt to get more sex and she is so used to resisting that any perceived attempt annoys her. The only way I know to fix this is to do as I have repeatedly advised and choose activities that don't involve her. If she isn't invited, it cant be trying to get sex. It adds mystery and creates interest. It seems backwards but she is blocking forwards.

She is doing something between 10:30 and 12:30. I know what my wife is doing when she is avoiding me. And I hate it, but at least I know what it is. Whatever it is your wife is doing for those hours (14 hours a week) is replacing the quality time that your relationship needs. Her selfish "me time" is killing your marriage.


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## Livvie

Mr. Nail said:


> 2 things
> there is a pretty good chance that she sees anything that you do as an attempt to get more sex and she is so used to resisting that any perceived attempt annoys her. The only way I know to fix this is to do as I have repeatedly advised and choose activities that don't involve her. If she isn't invited, it cant be trying to get sex. It adds mystery and creates interest. It seems backwards but she is blocking forwards.
> 
> She is doing something between 10:30 and 12:30. I know what my wife is doing when she is avoiding me. And I hate it, but at least I know what it is. Whatever it is your wife is doing for those hours (14 hours a week) is replacing the quality time that your relationship needs. Her selfish "me time" is killing your marriage.


This. 

She tells you she's too tired to have sex, but then goes to bed HOURS after you EVERY NIGHT. How are you not talking about this with her?

Your kids aren't toddlers. You say they are preteen and midteen in age. She only works part time. If she were AT ALL interested in sex with you, she would come to bed earlier, at a normal bedtime, at least a couple of times a week, thus eliminating the "tired" excuse. And she'd still have those extra alone hours the other 5 nights a week.

What DOES she do after you go to bed???!


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## Tasorundo

What is she doing until midnight every night?


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## suburbanmom

Construction Worker said:


> AVR1962 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If my husband would have done this after 18 years marriage I would have done the same as your wife quite honestly. The focus for men seems to be sex, we see and don't appreciate it as there is alot more to us and life as a married couple. I am assuming your wife was turned off because there is not enough out of the bedroom connection, whether that is emotional support or just the occasional hug and kiss that does not lead to anything else. We need to know that we are appreciated and wanted for more than sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I acted as I did out of desperation, stupid as it may have been in retrospect, my idea was sincere. I have tried romance. I try to go out of my way to be understanding. I tell her she’s beautiful. I’ve gone back to the peck on the cheek before I leave for work that I used to do years ago, tell her I love her, have a good day. I tried a cheesy striptease, yeah so I’m an idiot. I am sincere when I do these things, but none of it has worked. My (more than) occasional hugs and kisses never have lead to anything, and 99% of the time I know they won’t and and sex isn’t even on my mind when I do these things. I wonder if she’s just not interested at all in sex, not just with me, but anyone?
Click to expand...

I'm about the same age/kids/marriage length as you and partly I agree with the other poster I quoted, in that if my husband did the same dinner/flowers/pictures/strip tease I would totally laugh, too - I think many women just aren't turned on by that kind of blatantly sexual visual stuff. 

However, and to me this is a big however, he would realize it was silly and would also laugh and then we'd immediately have sex. Because I like him. Because he went to all that trouble, even if the execution was not exactly what I'd have wanted. Because he's my wonderful husband who works so hard for our family and it's our anniversary. Because we have a strong relationship and part of that is the sexual part, but it's also so much more. Something seems off here. Could just be a lack of closeness between you, could be something else. Marriage counseling might be a good idea.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> She tells you she's too tired to have sex, but then goes to bed HOURS after you EVERY NIGHT. How are you not talking about this with her?



Because she hates having sex with him and she knows he will jump on her... so, she is waiting to go to bed hoping he will be asleep. My wife used to do this. Up until one 'o clock in the morning watching TV and then iPad...


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## bandit.45

in absentia said:


> because she hates having sex with him and she knows he will jump on her... So, she is waiting to go to bed hoping he will be asleep. My wife used to do this. Up until one 'o clock in the morning watching tv and then ipad...


this ^^^^


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## bandit.45

CW try the books by Athol Kay, especially "Married Man's Sex Life Primer". It's got some good stuff in there to help you understand how women think.

Books ? Current books and what?s coming soon

And then cruise over to Dr. Glover's webpage and download a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy". It's a good book that details what a lot of men do wrong in their relationships with women. Especially check out his topic concerning "covert contracts". A covert contract is a manipulative behavior where a man does nice things for his woman with the expectation that she will reciprocate, and when she doesn't he gets offended and builds resentment, which feeds into more covert contracts. There is good stuff to be gleaned in this book. I highly recommend it. 

https://www.drglover.com/coaching-groups/groups-for-men.html


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## 3Xnocharm

I do feel like she is trying to get some "me time" as others have suggested, however with the kids being as old as they are, and her only working part time, why isnt she carving out some "me time" at other times of the day? Maybe bring that up as a suggestion to her...that you know she needs occasional time to herself (we ALL do) and make the offer that you will take over things at home for a couple hours at X time on Y days so that she can do something on her own, or something along those lines. If she argues with you about this, then she is probably avoiding you on purpose. (Personally I tend to stay up stupidly late because I am a night owl person, and I cant sleep if I go to bed too early. I But I am currently single, so no one cares, LOL.) 

I also second the suggestion that she see her doctor for a physical and blood workup. Her being so tired all the time doesnt seem normal for her age. I went in one time for this same thing.. my thyroid was fine, but my doc made the determination based on my exhaustion and some other symptoms, that I was depressed. So there could be something healthwise affecting her too.


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## Livvie

Just because someone uses the excuse they they are tired (to not have sex) doesn't mean they actually are tired. A women who stays up past midnight isn't truly tired. Tired is someone falling asleep on the couch by 9 pm.


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## lovelygirl

Meh. She's not sexually attracted to you, OP. Whether it's hormones or it's related specificially to YOU, there's gotta be some hormones check-issue or MC. 

Hand her the books that were suggested here and you can read them together. You need to be on the same wavelength and need to educate yourselves at the same time, for faster results.


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## bandit.45

Or she's just a prude. They do exist unfortunately. 

I wonder if this is all a big power trip for her?


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## lovelygirl

bandit.45 said:


> Or she's just a prude. They do exist unfortunately.


Belive me, there's no woman-prude on this Earth! Try matching her with a lover and you won't recognize her anymore! 


That's why I said she's a prude to _him_, only.


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## AliceA

Unfortunately the people here cannot tell you what she's feeling, though it'll seem like we all think we have mystical powers of deduction based off a few typed words. If she says she's tired and that's how it seems to you, then I would take that as the truth. IMO, you can be dead tired and sit up until all hours of the night for various reasons, doesn't make the statement that you're tired a lie.


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## farsidejunky

AliceA said:


> Unfortunately the people here cannot tell you what she's feeling, though it'll seem like we all think we have mystical powers of deduction based off a few typed words. If she says she's tired and that's how it seems to you, then I would take that as the truth. IMO, you can be dead tired and sit up until all hours of the night for various reasons, doesn't make the statement that you're tired a lie.


Truth. 

However...

It is clear, whether she is tired or not, that she is not putting energy into meeting his needs.

Trying to pull the "why" from her when she is either unwilling or unable to communicate it is a fool's errand.

Chasing her is a fool's errand.

Placing priority on any of her personal needs is...you guessed it...a fool's errand.

Right now, she is perfectly comfortable in the midst of his discomfort.

His only real option is to flip that script. Shut down everything that does not have to do with the children. No listening ear for venting, no acts of service, no words of affirmation, no flirting, no initiation of sex, and guys/hobby night's 3 to 4 times per week. Roommates.

And she can either step up, and things can return to some semblance of reciprocity, or she can continue to not get her needs met as well. If she is okay with that, the marriage is (for all intents and purposes) dead.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## alte Dame

Some women just can't imagine how men feel about sex. They really just project their own attitudes onto men without giving it much thought. She's projecting her attitude that sex is an optional add-on to a busy life with children. It's not an essential for her, so she assumes the same for her husband.

This is a mismatch of sex drive and interest. For me, the problem is that she doesn't notice that it's a problem. OP will have to have a very serious talk with her and issue some ultimatums to get her to wake up a bit. There are lots of things the two of them can do to improve this area of their lives, but OP can't do it alone.


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## BluesPower

farsidejunky said:


> Truth.
> 
> However...
> 
> It is clear, whether she is tired or not, that she is not putting energy into meeting his needs.
> 
> Trying to pull the "why" from her when she is either unwilling or unable to communicate it is a fool's errand.
> 
> Chasing her is a fool's errand.
> 
> Placing priority on any of her personal needs is...you guessed it...a fool's errand.
> 
> Right now, she is perfectly comfortable in the midst of his discomfort.
> 
> His only real option is to flip that script. Shut down everything that does not have to do with the children. No listening ear for venting, no acts of service, no words of affirmation, no flirting, no initiation of sex, and guys/hobby night's 3 to 4 times per week. Roommates.
> 
> And she can either step up, and things can return to some semblance of reciprocity, or she can continue to not get her needs met as well. If she is okay with that, the marriage is (for all intents and purposes) dead.


I agree with this completely... in a way.

He might do the above as a short precursor to filing for divorce... 

What I don't get is why people put up with this in the first place.

But I will never understand that...


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## wilson

BluesPower said:


> What I don't get is why people put up with this in the first place.
> 
> But I will never understand that...


I think it depends on how much you view marriage as a "single benefit" institution. Some examples of a single benefit might be having kids, having high financial/social status, or passionate sex. For some people, if that one thing isn't there, then the other parts of the marriage don't make up for it. So someone who wants to be a parent may leave the marriage if their partner doesn't want kids regardless of how good the marriage is otherwise.

But if someone views marriage as having many benefits, then if one thing isn't good, the other things in the marriage can make up for it. So someone who wants kids might stay in a childless marriage if they get along great with their spouse, have financial stability, and have common hobbies. As a whole they are content with the marriage even though there might be one area which is missing or substandard.

I have a feeling that someone who is more of a "single benefit" person might not be as concerned if other areas of the marriage aren't great. If someone has a high need for sex and that need is being met, they may not care as much if other areas of the marriage aren't as high quality. So it might not matter if they have little in common with their spouse as long as the bedroom is active. Then on the other hand, someone who wants many benefits may want compatibility in more areas of the marriage. Even if one area is 100%, they may be more concerned that the other areas also have higher value.


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## BluesPower

wilson said:


> I think it depends on how much you view marriage as a "single benefit" institution. Some examples of a single benefit might be having kids, having high financial/social status, or passionate sex. For some people, if that one thing isn't there, then the other parts of the marriage don't make up for it. So someone who wants to be a parent may leave the marriage if their partner doesn't want kids regardless of how good the marriage is otherwise.
> 
> But if someone views marriage as having many benefits, then if one thing isn't good, the other things in the marriage can make up for it. So someone who wants kids might stay in a childless marriage if they get along great with their spouse, have financial stability, and have common hobbies. As a whole they are content with the marriage even though there might be one area which is missing or substandard.
> 
> I have a feeling that someone who is more of a "single benefit" person might not be as concerned if other areas of the marriage aren't great. If someone has a high need for sex and that need is being met, they may not care as much if other areas of the marriage aren't as high quality. So it might not matter if they have little in common with their spouse as long as the bedroom is active. Then on the other hand, someone who wants many benefits may want compatibility in more areas of the marriage. Even if one area is 100%, they may be more concerned that the other areas also have higher value.


Sorry buddy, we have been down this road, well I never have... 

I look at this one way, Romantic Love/marriage goes one way. It includes lots of vigorous, passionate, loving sex or it does not happen. 

And everyone can dance around the issue all they want. If a woman does not want to have sex with you, then she does not love you like a lover/husband...

And is it NOT a single benefit issue. It is a issue of what is marriage/romantic relationship.

For me and many others one of the many "benefits", and I hate to call it that, is sex and lots of it.

There are other ways that people look at it, but not me, and I will never understand the other ways...


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## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> Truth.
> 
> However...
> 
> It is clear, whether she is tired or not, that she is not putting energy into meeting his needs.
> 
> Trying to pull the "why" from her when she is either unwilling or unable to communicate it is a fool's errand.
> 
> Chasing her is a fool's errand.
> 
> Placing priority on any of her personal needs is...you guessed it...a fool's errand.
> 
> Right now, she is perfectly comfortable in the midst of his discomfort.
> 
> His only real option is to flip that script. Shut down everything that does not have to do with the children. No listening ear for venting, no acts of service, no words of affirmation, no flirting, no initiation of sex, and guys/hobby night's 3 to 4 times per week. Roommates.
> 
> And she can either step up, and things can return to some semblance of reciprocity, or she can continue to not get her needs met as well. If she is okay with that, the marriage is (for all intents and purposes) dead.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk




Far is right.
@Construction Worker, you’re still viewing this like you’re a team. You’re not a team. She’s getting her needs met just fine, while not having to put in any effort meeting yours. 

She has zero motivation to change this. So don’t try to convince her. Change the rules instead.

Zero emotional effort from you. She’ll get uncomfortable very quickly, I suspect. When she asks why you’re being like this, the answer should be very simple:

“I’m not getting my needs met. Just because you are fine living celibately doesn’t mean I am.” And then you walk away and let that one soak in.

If she doesn’t care enough to ask why you’re being like this, the marriage was dead a long time ago to her.

As for her being asexual? I’ve met more than one woman that claimed to be asexual. None of them actually were. They liked sex just fine. Just not with their husbands. Asexuality happens, but is exceedingly rare.


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