# My wife says she made a mistake



## confuseddad

I've been reading the forums for awhile to get some perspective on what others are going though. I finally felt it might be good to get some perspective on my own situation. 

Here's my story. I met my wife in 2008 and after about 1.5 years of dating, we got married in 2010. We got pregnant during the honeymoon. We're both in our mid-30's and is slightly older than me. 

While we were dating, I had some sexual hangups (lower drive, difficulty reaching climax) that interfered with my ability to have a "normal" sex life, one being a low level of testosterone. I didn't know it at the time though, but at her urging, I got it checked and sure enough it was low. 

She frequently said that sex was very important to her in the relationship and something that we should figure out before getting married. Part of me was stubborn and I didn't want to admit that my low drive or inability to arrive at orgasm quickly was a problem. There were times were I wouldn't be able to climax at all. Looking back, I should have addressed this issues with fury, but I didn't and I regret it. 

The dating and courting period was great (other than the sex life). We had fun, traveled, spent alot of time together and she would tell me that she loved our life together. But shortly after the wedding, when we found out she was pregnant, things took a turn for the worse. 

She became really naggy about everything and I figured it was just due to the nesting that a pregnant woman goes through. Things were okay, but I didn't feel that we were as close as a newlywed couple should be (again, I chalked it up to the pregnancy hormones). 

We started going to a birthing class, and I remember her getting pretty snippy with me at one point. As we walked back to the car after the class, I said "you could act like you love me, ya know" or something to that effect, and she kinda just shrugged her shoulders. That was probably the first time I realized that there was a real problem. During the length of the pregnancy, she was fairly cold and distant, not wanting to cuddle, etc..

After the baby came, things pretty much stayed the same but the focus went onto the little one. If I tried to be intimate or physical with her, she would pull away and say she was tired. So we went the better part of 8 months without having sex after the baby was born. 

I asked her about it at one point, and she said that one of her friends had only had sex with her husband 2 times since their baby was born (a couple months before ours), which didn't make me feel better. 

During this period, I went to a doctor who put me on a medication for Low-T, which made a huge difference in my drive. Now I was eager yet my wife was unresponsive. I'd say things like "ironic how now I have a strong drive and you don't have any", and she would respond "oh, I'm plenty horny". Which, in essence, meant that she was horny but not for me. 

She'd say she didn't want to go back our old sex life b/c it was awkward, even though I was on supplements and feeling like a changed man. So I started seeing a sex therapist to help work out my issues. The sessions with the therapist quickly turned into relationship therapy. I felt like I wasn't going to get anywhere with the sex thing if we weren't close on the relationship. 

So we started seeing the therapist together, which as of today, hasn't produced much result. I intend to talk to the MC directly to see if we can speed things up. During these sessions, she mentioned that she "wasn't sure why she couldn't be affectionate towards me" and that "I deserved to have that kind of love and so did she". She also said that she didn't have that "I can't live without you" kind of love. 

We did resume having sex recently (in the past couple of months), but it's been spotty at best and she doesn't seem to really enjoy it the way she used to...like she is going through the motions. 

But, the thing that really bothers me is that I believe she is having or is on the verge of having an EA, and I'm sure it's part of the reason she feels so uncertain about us. Back when we were first dating, she maintained a relationship with an ex, and insisted it was just a friendship and no more. However, she would go out of her way not to flaunt any aspect of our relationship to him and I finally confronted her on it. At the time, she said she didn't want to hurt his feelings by rubbing it in that she was dating me. 

Well, we got engaged and she was still talking to him (she let it slip that he had been emailing her), and I got angry and told her to let him know that she was engaged. She reluctantly did so (again, saying she didn't want to hurt his feelings!....what about my feelings???). 

I thought that was put to bed, but flash forward a couple years and I learn that she's still talking to this guy and in fact asks me if I mind if she meets him for a drink for a bit (he was in town for some interview). When she got home, I told her I was surprised she was even still talking to him and she said again that it was only friends and that she didn't feel she needed to tell me everyone who she talks to via email (which I agree in purpose, but not in this case)

Trying not to be Beta and show jealousy, I drop the subject after confronting her on it. She brings up the point that I maintain friendships with some ex's too (but not ones that still have feelings for me!). But now my radar is up. 

She at one point had left her email open on my computer and I my curiosity got the best of me. (I feel bad for admitting this). I notice that she had been emailing other ex-boyfriends (one of whom I met and I know there's nothing going on between them). 

She vents to them that her marriage is a failure and that she loves being a mom but isn't sure what she wants to do about me. In a later email, she tells one of them that she knows she has a good life and that I'm a good father and totally dedicated to her, and that maybe she's not being fair. She also says that she is going to give it her best effort. Regardless, I'm really hurt by the fact that she is venting her marriage issues to them and not to me. 

I also notice that she is buried in her phone lately and always texting someone back and forth so I did check it (again, I realize this is wrong), but come to find out she is texting very frequently the first guy and venting about our relationship and told him that she was glad they were able to have nice conversations (mainly via text or facebook). 

Now, nothing has indicated that she is actively engaged in a PA and there's no indication that anything "inappropriate" is being said (things like "I love you, etc...it's all pretty above the cuff), but still, it really really bothers me that she's carrying on with this guy. 

I brought this up with my MC and she said not to confront her just yet, but to monitor the situation. So that's what I'm doing. Today my wife is being nice to me and attentive, but I'm having a hard time looking at her. 

I also am really bothered that our day-to-day life is pretty good, we don't fight and we get along pretty well, but she doesn't seem to be putting any effort into the future of the marriage. It's like she's resigned to the fact that it's flawed. There's just not alot of loving affection. She even admits that she is happy day-to-day, just not sure what she wants long-term. I wish she would talk to me about her problems rather than running off to ex-boyfriends to vent. 

I absolutely love her to death and don't want to see my marriage fall apart, and especially am fearful of our family being ripped apart, but I just don't see us recovering while she is maintaining this contact with OM. (I'll call him that for lack of a better term). 

I know at some point, I will have to confront her on this, or have the MC help with it, I just wanted to vent alittle and get some perspective. I feel she is not putting any effort into the marriage right now. This really sucks so badly, I'm very lost and confused about how we got to this place.


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## morituri

It sounds like your wife never was in love with you to begin with and right after the wedding got a bad case of 'buyer's remorse'.

You should seriously consider detaching emotionally from her since she's having multiple EAs with various ex-boyfriends. She may be looking for one of them to provide a way out of the marriage since many women seldom leave a marriage - not counting an abusive one - without having another relationship already waiting in the wings.


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## EleGirl

You are right. She is not putting any effort into the marriage.

Morituri said you might want to start to detach from her.

What she is doing it using bad mouthing you to get attention from many men. That's pretty low.

If you want to work on the marriage.. then let her know that you know about her talking to all those men and telling them her what she thinks are her problems. That either she stops all communications with all of them, gives you the passwords to all of her computer accounts and her cell, and she agrees to work on the marriage or you are filing for divorce.

If anything is going to shock her out of her fog, that will.

If you do not do something like that... then your marriage is gone. She is not going to agree to anything in counseling because she does not respect you.


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## Trenton

Just because your wife made a mistake doesn't mean you're not a worthwhile guy who will find love again. It seems pretty obvious your wife is not actively working with you and never has. If I were you, I would begin to consider leaving your wife. Recognize that you have a lot to offer the right woman.

I realize you have a child. That child will need you as a father and I really recommend you make sure that you stay in this child's life, not saying you won't, but she might make that difficult if she finds out that you actually are considering leaving. She might also imagine that she can replace you with this other man who she obviously currently uses for all her emotional intimacy needs. Make sure you retain a lawyer and retain joint custody. Make sure you ignore her threats and take care of yourself.

So all of what I'm writing might seem foreign to you. You are still be hoping she will snap out of it. My best guess is the only chance of you having her even consider snapping out of it is if you recognize that you are willing to leave rather than live in a loveless, sexless marriage. You don't deserve to be treated the way she is treating you. Unless there is something big you're not telling us.


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## confuseddad

I don't think I'm ready to just walk away from the marriage just yet. I have too much invested (both emotionally and physically) to raise the white flag - although the thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. 

I have seen glimmers of hope at times during our relationship in the past months. She is certainly conflicted about her feelings and I can easily sense it. She talks about the future with me (like not wanting a short sale on a condo I own b/c it will mess up our ability to buy in the future), there are moments where we've connected on a different level (a sexual encounter recently comes to mind) and our daily life isn't unpleasant most of the time. She admits that her life isn't so bad. 

I do think she has rewritten our history to a degree though, saying that we never had a passionate beginning. I have found emails dating back to our first couple years together and they are full of notes from her saying "can't wait to see you tonight!!" and "you make me so happy!!". She also was the one who said I Love You to me first, pushed for an engagement ring and wanted to have my kids. 

She is a very non-confrontational person and it totally fits her personality not to directly confront her issues. So, even though I don't agree with it, I know why she didn't want to tell this OM why she wasn't interested in him when we first started dating. She truly didn't want to hurt him. But by keeping him around as a "friend", I do believe she is starting to become clouded by what her feelings are in our marriage. And of course, this OM's motives are selfish, I'm sure. 

Here's what I know about the communication that she's been having. The OM is the only one she has regular communication (they seem to go in spurts of texts or emails every few days). The other guys are very sporadic, maybe a series of emails over the course of a day and are spread months apart. So, I don't think there's anything going on with those ones, other than the obvious disrespectful nature of the conversations. She also never bad-mouths me specifically, she says things like "I feel like I choose poorly yet again" (*she was married once before) and "I need to be true to myself over the long run". But I am definitely concerned about her continuing communication with OM, especially since she knows how much it bothered me in the past. 

During my last counseling session, I went solo and the MC said that she wanted to bring my wife in for a solo session to balance things out. I am not sure when she'll have an apt. with the MC but hopefully it's this week. 

I'm tempted, even though the MC has said to wait and see, to confront my wife without dropping the bomb. I know enough to know that she is keeping on with the OM. I want to know why she isn't trying and why she feels the need maintain a relationship with him. I do not believe she even knows what she has at home, and I think she is stupid and naive to throw it all away.


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## COguy

I will give you my unfiltered, fresh eyes opinion of your marriage.

Judging from what you're telling me, it sounds like she was cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, it sounds like she was physically cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, I would be very anxious about the child even being mine.

I know that sounds horrible and crazy but there are a LOT of kids with misdiagnosed parents.

From everything you said I would be insanely surprised if she wasn't in an EA, but more importantly, I would be surprised if she wasn't still sleeping with some of these men. Sounds like she never really gave up her ex, and if he lives anywhere within a one-day drive, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are still hooking up regularly.

I'm sorry this came off as crude or harsh, but I'm not invested in your relationship and from the little you've told me, it does not look good.

My advice: get insanely good at snooping. Get a VAR in the house and car, try to read text messages, keylogger on the computer, try to read emails and FB messages, GPS tracking on the phone/car, etc. You know you're going to get proof, you just don't know what the proof is yet.

Second, I would get a swab from the kid and do an at-home or mailaway paternity test. She's lying to you now, how do you know she's not lying about that? Her snippiness was a little too convenient if you ask me, I think you're paying for someone else's kid.

While this is going on, I would be adamant about NC with any exes or opposite sex. You need to grow some balls. It's not "not beta" to not bring up her talking to exes. In fact, the way you handled it, makes you sound sans-balls. No guy is going to be OK with her wife talking to an ex like she is. It doesn't make you sound jealous, it makes you sound like a pushover that you would keep letting her do it. You're basically tacitly approving of her chatting up old flames, she even called you out with the "Oh I'm horny, just not with you" line. She's actively telling you she's got the hots for other people, probably having sex with them, right under your nose.

You need some self-respect ASAP!


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## confuseddad

COguy said:


> I will give you my unfiltered, fresh eyes opinion of your marriage.
> 
> Judging from what you're telling me, it sounds like she was cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, it sounds like she was physically cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, I would be very anxious about the child even being mine.
> 
> I know that sounds horrible and crazy but there are a LOT of kids with misdiagnosed parents.
> 
> From everything you said I would be insanely surprised if she wasn't in an EA, but more importantly, I would be surprised if she wasn't still sleeping with some of these men. Sounds like she never really gave up her ex, and if he lives anywhere within a one-day drive, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are still hooking up regularly.
> 
> I'm sorry this came off as crude or harsh, but I'm not invested in your relationship and from the little you've told me, it does not look good.
> 
> My advice: get insanely good at snooping. Get a VAR in the house and car, try to read text messages, keylogger on the computer, try to read emails and FB messages, GPS tracking on the phone/car, etc. You know you're going to get proof, you just don't know what the proof is yet.
> 
> Second, I would get a swab from the kid and do an at-home or mailaway paternity test. She's lying to you now, how do you know she's not lying about that? Her snippiness was a little too convenient if you ask me, I think you're paying for someone else's kid.
> 
> While this is going on, I would be adamant about NC with any exes or opposite sex. You need to grow some balls. It's not "not beta" to not bring up her talking to exes. In fact, the way you handled it, makes you sound sans-balls. No guy is going to be OK with her wife talking to an ex like she is. It doesn't make you sound jealous, it makes you sound like a pushover that you would keep letting her do it. You're basically tacitly approving of her chatting up old flames, she even called you out with the "Oh I'm horny, just not with you" line. She's actively telling you she's got the hots for other people, probably having sex with them, right under your nose.
> 
> You need some self-respect ASAP!


Whoa! I appreciate your bluntly honest assessment of my situation but I don't think it's that horrific! 

I know for certain my baby is mine. She looks exactly like me and we can time our conception (like I said, she was created during our honeymoon). 

While I don't believe that she has ever physically cheated, I cannot prove so, so it's always going to be in the back of my mind. And I'm realistic enough to know that if the EA continues, it will eventually evolve into a PA. 

The OM does not live anywhere near here, fortunately, however he does travel here occasionally for a variety of reason (at least as far as I can tell). I've seen the facebook logs and so far, there is NO evidence of any dirty deeds yet.... It just seems like 2 friends talking about a variety of mundane things in a friendly, excited manner. No proclamations of love, or a desire to leave her marriage for him or anything like that. 

The emails between the other ex's have mainly been about them asking about each other's relationships. When it's her turn to share, she seems to say how she's finding herself in yet another failing marriage. One of the guys actually gave her good advice and told her how much hard work it was to have a baby and be married and to hang in there. 

I do agree with you that I have to grow a set of balls about her continuing to talk to the OM. It does piss me off royally knowing she is talking to him as often as she is. She does not know that I know how much she is actually talking to him and I feel I need to plot my course carefully. 

I don't think it's in my best interest to run in with guns blazing and ask questions later. I think I need to have a calculated plan. I'm trying to save this marriage, if it even is savable. I don't want to destroy it.


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## morituri

confuseddad said:


> I don't think it's in my best interest to run in with guns blazing and ask questions later. I think I need to have a calculated plan. I'm trying to save this marriage, if it even is savable. I don't want to destroy it.


Then why don't you *calmly, quietly and respectfully* ask her if she wants a divorce so she can be happier and free to be with somebody else? Tell her that you'd *rather live by a dream than live by a lie.*


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## COguy

confuseddad said:


> Whoa! I appreciate your bluntly honest assessment of my situation but I don't think it's that horrific!
> 
> I know for certain my baby is mine. She looks exactly like me and we can time our conception (like I said, she was created during our honeymoon).
> 
> While I don't believe that she has ever physically cheated, I cannot prove so, so it's always going to be in the back of my mind. And I'm realistic enough to know that if the EA continues, it will eventually evolve into a PA.
> 
> The OM does not live anywhere near here, fortunately, however he does travel here occasionally for a variety of reason (at least as far as I can tell). I've seen the facebook logs and so far, there is NO evidence of any dirty deeds yet.... It just seems like 2 friends talking about a variety of mundane things in a friendly, excited manner. No proclamations of love, or a desire to leave her marriage for him or anything like that.
> 
> The emails between the other ex's have mainly been about them asking about each other's relationships. When it's her turn to share, she seems to say how she's finding herself in yet another failing marriage. One of the guys actually gave her good advice and told her how much hard work it was to have a baby and be married and to hang in there.
> 
> I do agree with you that I have to grow a set of balls about her continuing to talk to the OM. It does piss me off royally knowing she is talking to him as often as she is. She does not know that I know how much she is actually talking to him and I feel I need to plot my course carefully.
> 
> I don't think it's in my best interest to run in with guns blazing and ask questions later. I think I need to have a calculated plan. I'm trying to save this marriage, if it even is savable. I don't want to destroy it.


OK that's good news! You don't need to run with guns blazing but you need to be up front and stern about it. Talking to exes is bad mojo period. Talking to exes about relationship problems is a ticking time bomb.

You need to get all this out in the open, maybe not details about what you know, but about how she's not happy and how she's doing some things to bother you (like talking to her exes, and the attraction to you issue). Rug sweeping isn't going to win you any awards.

MC is a good start. Make sure she is committed to it.


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## Bottled Up

confuseddad said:


> Whoa! I appreciate your bluntly honest assessment of my situation but I don't think it's that horrific!
> 
> I know for certain my baby is mine. She looks exactly like me and we can time our conception (like I said, she was created during our honeymoon).
> 
> While I don't believe that she has ever physically cheated, I cannot prove so, so it's always going to be in the back of my mind. And I'm realistic enough to know that if the EA continues, it will eventually evolve into a PA.
> 
> The OM does not live anywhere near here, fortunately, however he does travel here occasionally for a variety of reason (at least as far as I can tell). I've seen the facebook logs and so far, there is NO evidence of any dirty deeds yet.... It just seems like 2 friends talking about a variety of mundane things in a friendly, excited manner. No proclamations of love, or a desire to leave her marriage for him or anything like that.
> 
> The emails between the other ex's have mainly been about them asking about each other's relationships. When it's her turn to share, she seems to say how she's finding herself in yet another failing marriage. One of the guys actually gave her good advice and told her how much hard work it was to have a baby and be married and to hang in there.
> 
> I do agree with you that I have to grow a set of balls about her continuing to talk to the OM. It does piss me off royally knowing she is talking to him as often as she is. She does not know that I know how much she is actually talking to him and I feel I need to plot my course carefully.
> 
> I don't think it's in my best interest to run in with guns blazing and ask questions later. I think I need to have a calculated plan. I'm trying to save this marriage, if it even is savable. I don't want to destroy it.


At the very least, you need to follow COguy's advice about snooping. Get as much tracking ability as possible in place so you can watch her every move. It's sad you have to do this, but the amount of freedom you've already given her to continue talking to all these OMs is profoundly dangerous, and the chances she has taken advantage of this freedom you've given are "more than likely".

Although you may not be ready to throw in the towel on your marriage just yet, I think you need to seriously put your mindset in an acceptance of that kind of situation, and actually start building up counter-measures for yourself that it becomes a very real outcome of this. Start researching good divorce lawyers, do the paternity test anyway, snoop the hell out of her, and get all your finances in order... secretly.

If you find out the worst news that she is cheating, and you confront her, and divorce actually becomes her own agenda, then she is going to come after you like a vicious banshee and you will be blindsided in the fury and sucked completely dry if you don't have your defensive plan in place by then. The more evidence you have in this situation the better off the outcome for you if it does come to divorce.

Be extremely careful, be extremely smart, and Godspeed my friend.


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## confuseddad

morituri said:


> Then why don't you *calmly, quietly and respectfully* ask her if she wants a divorce so she can be happier and free to be with somebody else? Tell her that you'd *rather live by a dream than live by a lie.*


I'm not certain I want to put it in those terms, as if I am okay with that outcome. 

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately and I think the conversation I want to have with her will go something like this: 

"I'd like to know what your intention is with OM. The fact that you have maintained contact with him all this time leads me to believe that you are having an EA with him and I need you to know I'm not okay with this. There is no positive outcome for our marriage if you maintain this relationship. 

You have husband who loves you deeply, even with your flaws, and a beautiful child. I believe you think the grass is greener somewhere else, yet you had opportunities with these ex's before and they led you nowhere. You are chasing a flawed dream. If you insist on continuing this relationship and not putting effort on this marriage, you are telling me that you are willing to throw everything away. I think you are foolish and naive. "

I want to have a conversation with my MC first before having this conversation though.


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## fallinginlove

Dear confuseddad, I'm sorry for your difficulties in your marriage. It is not to late to keep it alive! First of all, if anything keep it going for your child's sake. Then take your wife to a "weekend to remember" conference. It will change your marriage. Get the book, 5 love languages by Gary Chapman and this will open your eyes. So here is some help. When you dated your wife you had to romance her and gave her a reason to fall in love with you. However, you stopped dating her. You have to continue to date your wife! She needs to feel completely loved and cherished by you. Key: find out what her love language is and start loving her today! When you plant a garden, you don't just leave it, you have to cultivate it, water it, weed it, and so on. The same it is with marriage. Since there are problems in your marriage, then humbly go to your wife and ask her to truly share how you can be the man she needs you to be. If she say this and that, then do this and that. Your an amateur at this marriage stuff, but tell her you want to be an expert! Write down your love story and read it to her. Why did you marry her, what is it that attracted you to her, and so on. Give her a reason to love you. Communication! Communication! Communication! Is the key. However you can only do this with a loving, humble heart. No saying her faults, just focus on yours, and often she will admit to her own faults. Even if she doesn't though, keep pursing her. Love is a choice not a feeling! See the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 to understand what love really is. Don't try to prove that she is wrong on keeping up correspondence with an old ex boyfriends. (I do believe it is wrong) However, this will only say to her that she has done something wrong and it will possibly make her willful and defensive. Even if she is wrong, she will be embarrassed to admit it. So don't lose hope, just learn what it truly means to love. I am not a counselor, I am a wife to one husband of 26 years strong and a mother to 8 beautiful children. My husband and I have had to work at our marriage, but in the long run we have had an awesome marriage! Invest in your marriage and it will become very valuable to you. May God help you as you love your wife.


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## Chaparral

confuseddad said:


> I'm not certain I want to put it in those terms, as if I am okay with that outcome.
> 
> I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately and I think the conversation I want to have with her will go something like this:
> 
> "I'd like to know what your intention is with OM. The fact that you have maintained contact with him all this time leads me to believe that you are having an EA with him and I need you to know I'm not okay with this. There is no positive outcome for our marriage if you maintain this relationship.
> 
> You have husband who loves you deeply, even with your flaws, and a beautiful child. I believe you think the grass is greener somewhere else, yet you had opportunities with these ex's before and they led you nowhere. You are chasing a flawed dream. If you insist on continuing this relationship and not putting effort on this marriage, you are telling me that you are willing to throw everything away. I think you are foolish and naive. "
> 
> I want to have a conversation with my MC first before having this conversation though.


You've got a doctorate in Beta school right?


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## Chaparral

Start reading here Mr. Nice Guy. I almost fell off my chair when you let her go for "drinks" with an ex. And you thought that was not being beta? WTF

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> You've got a doctorate in Beta school right?


How would you word the conversation that needs to happen?


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## Tall Average Guy

confuseddad said:


> How would you word the conversation that needs to happen?


Drop the last paragraph and tell her:

Do you want to be married to me or not? If not, that is fine. I love you and I want you to be happy, so I will go to a lawyer tomorrow and we can start the process to get a divorce. If you want to stay married, then we need to set up some boundaries going forward.

The wait for her response. Also, make sure that you have a list ready of what she needs to do for you to stay married to her. Things like writing a no contact letter, tranparency, etc.


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## bellamaxjoy

I believe that your marriage can be saved, mine was,my dh had an eathis past summer. I had a long post that I lost, but the bottom line was this; if you don't DEMAND no contact. She will never come out of her fog while still in contact. The damage of an ea is that the spouse is giving all emotional intamacy to a person other than their spouse, as a result you two will NEVER connect again. If you can demand and enforce no contact, you will have a chance, if you don't you wont. I pray for your child's sake you da opens her eyes.


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## Chaparral

Whatever you say do not get emotional. If you have to leave the room do it.. Don't show emotion do not plead. Display yourself as strong man who can move on in a heartbeat. Yes it would kill you to lose her but you can not let that show. If you have to bite your tongue off before you cry.


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## Chaparral

She has almost all the red flags of an affair. You should have this moved to the coping with infidelity section. PM a moderator for help.
Hopefully that isn't the case but you will get the info to figure it out and get the info you need to proceed in any event.


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## confuseddad

I'm going to have the conversation with her tonight. Wish me luck. (boy this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life)


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## Badsmit

Your situation sound a lot like mine. Consider the alternatives, see is not cheating and your low sex drive, her weight gain, and hormonal change from pregnancy made her feel unattractive. She may be using the OM (even though it is WRONG and SELFISH) to boost her self esteem. I don’t think she is cheating yet. I do think she is evaluating the situation (your marriage) and trying to decide if she should stay. The OM conversation should stop if she wants to work it out. She seems like she wants to see what her market value is. Consider the baby was her way of holding on to you (trapping) because she did not know if you really wanted/ desired her. It sound like a lot of miscommunication has just about ruined your relationship. You may have to rebuild and show her you are the guy for her, (use the kid) Women who are the faithful marring type (not an absolute/100%) see there future with a family, (Mother /lover/Wife) make her into your Mother / lover/wife…. Let her know you need her without being a beta/needy/ weak/pathetic….
O and be careful don’t confront just yet SNOOP and get evidence. Accusations can make her resentful and push her further away….
:smthumbup:


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## confuseddad

Badsmit said:


> Your situation sound a lot like mine. Consider the alternatives, see is not cheating and your low sex drive, her weight gain, and hormonal change from pregnancy made her feel unattractive. She may be using the OM (even though it is WRONG and SELFISH) to boost her self esteem. I don’t think she is cheating yet. I do think she is evaluating the situation (your marriage) and trying to decide if she should stay. The OM conversation should stop if she wants to work it out. She seems like she wants to see what her market value is. Consider the baby was her way of holding on to you (trapping) because she did not know if you really wanted/ desired her. It sound like a lot of miscommunication has just about ruined your relationship. You may have to rebuild and show her you are the guy for her, (use the kid) Women who are the faithful marring type (not an absolute/100%) see there future with a family, (Mother /lover/Wife) make her into your Mother / lover/wife…. Let her know you need her without being a beta/needy/ weak/pathetic….
> O and be careful don’t confront just yet SNOOP and get evidence. Accusations can make her resentful and push her further away….
> :smthumbup:


You've actually hit the nail on the head here. This is almost exactly what is going on. (although she is in amazing shape, 6 pack of abs). I do not believe she has cheated physically...yet. She is evaluating her options and making a decision if I fit in those options, which from the feel of it, I don't. 

I do have to stop this EA though, she is crossing a boundary and I need to let her know I'm not okay with it. It's going to be a hard conversation to have but I plan to be firm, not accusatory and leave her a choice.


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> You've actually hit the nail on the head here. This is almost exactly what is going on. (although she is in amazing shape, 6 pack of abs). I do not believe she has cheated physically...yet. She is evaluating her options and making a decision if I fit in those options, which from the feel of it, I don't.
> 
> I do have to stop this EA though, she is crossing a boundary and I need to let her know I'm not okay with it. It's going to be a hard conversation to have but I plan to be firm, not accusatory and leave her a choice.


Having the conversation, assuming you are strong, set boundaries, and do not appease her actions in any way, will make you more attractive to her. She may be a total b*tch about it, but she's going to realize you're not a pushover as long as you stick to your guns. Doesn't mean you have to be insensitive or an a** about it, but if you show you're confident and strong and won't put up with the BS, she may look at you differently.


----------



## Badsmit

Keep us posted and put the picture in her head of what she stands to lose if she continues with her current behavior. There is a term called trickle truth, this is what you are going to get … to avoid this verify what she is saying and a little alpha male chest beating and jealously used in the right way will make a big difference. The goal is to get her back and ask why does she need the OM in her life..


Best of Luck…..


----------



## bellamaxjoy

Good luck, I think your marriage IS salvagable. Trickle truth will happen, and this will take time and work. Stay strong, remind her of all she has that could be lost.


----------



## confuseddad

Ok, so I had the conversation with her last night. My MC had sent me a note just before I talked to her and said to be non-confrontational and not to put her on the defensive. My wife has been nice to me the past few days and I think I caught her off-guard about the conversation. 

I gave her a brief summary of the things I had been working on in the marriage (working on myself, my sexual hangups, getting in better shape, reconnecting with friends, etc...) and told her that it dawned on me that I was the only one making an effort. I then told her that as I thought about it, I noticed that she was on her phone alot more lately and had also maintained contact with her ex's. I told her I had come to realize that she was emotionally engaged with these people and that our marriage would never work while she was doing that. I told her she had overstepped a boundary and I was putting my foot down, that I was not okay with it. 

She said they were just friends and that he didn't even live here. I also told her that there is no circumstance that it's okay for a married woman with child to maintain clandestine relationships with ex-boyfriends and challenged her to find anyone who agreed with her. She got upset when I brought up the fact that she has a husband who loves her deeply and child at home and she said she deserves to be happy in her relationship and she is just not sure what she wants. I again pressed her and said it's not cool what she's doing and she got pissed and said "fine! I'll stop talking to them!" (I didn't get the sense she was really serious, or thought that I was...guess we shall see)

She asked me what I wanted her to say. I said I want you to think about what I am telling you. I told her that I wasn't going to wait around for her to find a new man while she was with me, and I wasn't going to wait forever for her to decide what to do about us. She just got quiet and said "ok".

And then I left the house (to see an old friend - previously planned). 

When I got home a couple hours later, she was in bed. She left early this morning for work and I'm sure I won't communicate with her till I get home. 

I'm not 100% what to do now. I'm also not 100% certain if this is indeed an EA or not. She has told me for months that she wasn't sure what she wanted to do and that she was confused so that's nothing new. She just does not seem to want to work on us right now, and I don't know if she is in a fog or if reality has hit her about what life will be like. What hurts me is that she reacted like she had some horrible life and that I created so much misery for her. She has a damn good situation and she doesn't want to see it. She refuses to. 

I feel there's a 75% chance we're heading for divorce.


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## COguy

Dude you handled it 100% the right way. She is following the cheater's script to a T. She is definitely at least emotionally involved with these guys. I think you handled it really well, she challenged you that she's not happy with you and you did what you had to, made it clear that if she wants to work on it, you will. If she doesn't, she needs to leave, because you aren't going to stick around waiting for her forever.

You can't control what she does or says, she may decide she doesn't want to stay married, but you are certainly not making it easy for her to cheat on you. Now she has to make the decision, does she want to keep her life, or does she want to ruin it.

It doesn't make what you did easy, but I can tell you you are doing everything right to save your marriage.

My advice, and I want to make it clear that it is just that, advice. I'm not an expert by any means. But IMO, I think it would be a good idea to give her a short time period, a day or something, and I would tell her, "I want to work on this 100%, but I won't sit around and wait forever for you to decide if you want to be committed or not. If you want to be married to me, tell me by 7PM tonight, if not, I will see a lawyer tomorrow and I will have the papers for you to sign." You may even want to have the papers already drawn out and ready at that time.

You don't want to give her time to have her partners talk her out of marriage. She's going to go to them and ask for advice or counseling or what not. Actually my wife did the most of her sex talk with her EA partner the day I gave her the papers. If she's going to choose D over you, she's going to do that with a month to think about it or 1 hour. If you are really a good man and are working on your marriage, she'll know the right decision.

Also, I think it really turned my wife on to see me stand up for myself like you did. Stand your ground, she's going to realize what she's giving up.


----------



## Acorn

confuseddad said:


> She has a damn good situation and she doesn't want to see it. She refuses to.


I am more of the mindset that she saw that she has a damn good situation (you minding the kids and home while she goes out and plays the field) and now you are ruining it by making her choose.

Good job.

Expect a lot of resistance because she will not be used to you standing up for yourself so well.


----------



## confuseddad

The one thing that she did not directly admit is that she is having an EA. Although she seemed to reflect hard when I suggested that she was going to them to get an emotional connection (as if she hadn't considered it before). I got the impression that she felt like what she has been doing wasn't wrong.


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## Chaparral

Many people have no idea they are in an emotional affair. Google it and arm yourself eith the facts. Below is an example list. A book (that I haven't read) that is supposed to be really good is "Not Just Friends". By the way, they always say he is just aa friend.

10 Emotional affair warning signs:

1. You start to say things to this person that you wouldn’t if your spouse/partner was standing next to you. This is probably the most important litmus test to determine if the relationship is starting to cross the emotional affair boundary line.

2. You go out of your way to repeatedly “run into” this person. We all look forward to seeing people we enjoy—a particular friend or interesting colleague, for instance. If you’re honest with yourself, however, you’ll know the difference between a truly coincidental meeting and a “coincidence” that occurs because you stood around the office coffee machine for two hours (and you don’t even drink coffee).

3. You put on your “best face” to impress this person. When you’re entering into an emotional affair you go out of your way to be supportive, charming, funny, sympathetic… You deliberately act in ways to enhance your appeal—to be the best “you” possible.

Side note: These behaviors usually mirror how you behaved when you first dated your spouse/partner.

4. When the fires of an emotional affair are fanned, you begin to anticipate time spent with this person. Looking forward to spending time with someone other than your spouse or partner isn’t inherently wrong or dangerous. But when the foundation of an emotional affair is being poured, this anticipation causes you to feel a longing and level of excitement that elevates the relationship beyond the platonic friendship status.

5. Is this person becoming the “go-to person” whenever something important occurs? While it is human nature to share the events of your life with the people most important to you, once you’ve entered the gateway of an emotional affair, your spouse/partner becomes less central in your emotional world as you share life’s celebrations and struggles with this other person.

6. You begin confiding more and more in this person. When you confide in someone, you create a more intimate relationship by sharing information about yourself that isn’t shared with just anyone. When you take someone in your confidence, you’ve elevated the relationship to “special” status.

Side note: A telltale sign of an impending emotional affair is when you begin to confide in this person about how unhappy you are in your marriage/relationship.

7. The relationship becomes charged with a secretive, forbidden energy. This creates an “us” dynamic that separates the relationship from all others—the relationship is designated as unique because of its secretive nature. This also imbues the relationship with excitement and an element of danger (in direct contrast to the ho-hum energy of your current relationship).

8. You begin to have discussions that deliberately move this person into the role of caregiver—this occurs when you start to share your deepest struggles, life’s ambitions and intimate longings. These conversations create a powerful no-one-else-understands-me-like-you-do bond.

9. Before you know it, you can’t help comparing the new person to your spouse/partner—and it should be no surprise that your partner fails to make the grade. In your mind’s eye (and in the illusion of perfect love), all the differences that stand out for you indicate that this new person will be a superior mate and give you the happiness you long for.

10. You begin lying to your spouse/partner. When your partner asks about your day, you omit any reference to this person (and if you partner knows this person, you go out of your way to minimize his/her significance). This is a clear indication that you are stepping outside the commitment-boundaries of your marriage/relationship.

The goal of this list is to help raise your consciousness of how easy it can be to start down the road to an emotional affair. Everyone is vulnerable and it is your ability to recognize this fact that will help you protect your relationship.

Left unchecked, an emotional affair often leads to a physical affair. Too many good marriages and relationships have been destroyed because people deny and minimize the signs that an emotional affair is developing.

If you see yourself entering several of the above emotional infidelity danger zones, it will be important to hit the pause button on this new relationship before it’s too late. The allure of an emotional affair can create the illusion that perfect love exists and is right around the corner. Rather than chasing this illusion, put your energies into discovering what might be missing in your relationship and the steps you can take to strengthen your relationship.





.


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> The one thing that she did not directly admit is that she is having an EA. Although she seemed to reflect hard when I suggested that she was going to them to get an emotional connection (as if she hadn't considered it before). I got the impression that she felt like what she has been doing wasn't wrong.


It's possible, especially if she hasn't gone there yet. But nevertheless, subconciously she is open to it. She is seeking extra fulfillment even if she doesn't know it yet or thinks it would never happen. You're shutting the door on it makes her feel nervous, so she lashes out. Everything she said and did is standard fare for someone in an EA. Even if nothing inappropriate happened, she was getting there. If you hadn't put your foot down, in 2-3 months you'd be on the CWI forum talking about how your wife was in love with someone else.


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## Chaparral

Most people don't realize they can be in an affair even though no sex is involved.


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## confuseddad

Reading the list, she definitely falls under a few of those. I'm tempted to send that to her to read.


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## FourtyPlus

She maintained a relationship with an ex while dating you? Are you sure you are not actually an OM?


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## confuseddad

FourtyPlus said:


> She maintained a relationship with an ex while dating you? Are you sure you are not actually an OM?


I assume this is a serious question. I'm wearing a wedding ring so I don't believe I'm the OM. When we first started dating? I doubt it, but who knows.

I believe my wife is a lost soul and is searching for her perfect love. She seems to have a fairytale vision of what love is. The thing is that I feel she compares us to the honeymoon phase of other relationships she's been in and we all know that phase wears off at some point in almost every couple's life.


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## FourtyPlus

Yes, it was a serious question and I meant when you were first dating.


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> You've got a doctorate in Beta school right?


What I was thinking ...


----------



## Jonesey

WoW :scratchhead:


Not often it happen´s that i get this stunned.
And so lost for words...

God luck you really are going to need it.


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## asylumspadez

Honest, I think she has doubts in you and your relationship together. You guys did get married rather quickly and I think that she is regretting it because she pushed it along so quickly without truely seeing if she was happy or not. All relationships change and you cant help that. So be prepared for the worst because there is a good chance that the worst will come.

Your marriage is only gonna work if she wants it to work. You need to tell her to grow up, You arent always gonna get a fairy tale life, You have to work towards things. If she can maintain her EAs with her exs for years then she can put the effort into saving your marriage. Show her that you arent playing games and that you are in this 100% of the way, Even if she isnt.


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## Jonesey

Hopefully Spudster will find his way to this thread..

his motivational speaking skills would be very beneficiary 
here


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## lordmayhem

This WW is a classic cake eater.


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## confuseddad

asylumspadez said:


> Honest, I think she has doubts in you and your relationship together. You guys did get married rather quickly and I think that she is regretting it because she pushed it along so quickly without truely seeing if she was happy or not. All relationships change and you cant help that. So be prepared for the worst because there is a good chance that the worst will come.
> 
> Your marriage is only gonna work if she wants it to work. You need to tell her to grow up, You arent always gonna get a fairy tale life, You have to work towards things. If she can maintain her EAs with her exs for years then she can put the effort into saving your marriage. Show her that you arent playing games and that you are in this 100% of the way, Even if she isnt.


I have come to the realization that the outcome of this isn't looking really favorable right now. She does have moments of clarity though and has said things like she knows she sometimes unfairly compares us to other relationships. She also has been planning for our future in the past few weeks so I really do think she is conflicted. I do think I burst a long-overdue bubble last night so I'm not sure what to expect when I go home tonight. She needs time to get her head around what we talked about, hopefully see the MC. 

Or I could have papers waiting for me when I walk in the door...lol.


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## Beowulf

I think she is going to take her affairs underground and continue to cake eat as long as she can. And for the record I believe from what you've written she is having physical affairs, not just EAs.


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## warlock07

Ok, This will not be popular. 

I don't think this is EA as much as resentment against you. Even if it is an EA, it is at the lower end of the spectrum. The conversations are inappropriate, I don't think Infidelity is the right word for it. She looks she is not happy with her life and resents you some how. She also seems to have a problem connecting to you. Have you asked her what the problem was? Any major lifestyle choice differences? I feel that talking to him is a symptom of the problem, not the actual cause of the problem.


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## COguy

warlock07 said:


> Ok, This will not be popular.
> 
> I don't think this is EA as much as resentment against you. Even if it is an EA, it is at the lower end of the spectrum. The conversations are inappropriate, I don't think Infidelity is the right word for it. She looks she is not happy with her life and resents you some how. She also seems to have a problem connecting to you. Have you asked her what the problem was? Any major lifestyle choice differences? I feel that talking to him is a symptom of the problem, not the actual cause of the problem.


I definitely agree with your assessment. Make sure you communicate your willingness to work on the marriage 100% if she wants to stick around, and if she does, go for it 100%. She's obviously not happy about something, it doesn't excuse her looking outside the marriage to find happiness, but it could be an explanation.


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## alphaomega

Ok...you need some advise, still.....

You know part of the reason women are so attracted to the OM? Confidence. Simple. The OMs have nothing to lose. So they can be as confident as they want. And, they show it. They can seduce and flower the WW with all the sweet talk all they want. And if it doesn't work, then they don't cre because they will just move onto the next woman.

So.....stop talking about yourself with your wife. Stop telling her all the little things you are doing to be better, how your changing. Stop it now.

Instead, just DO those things. Be the man you want to be. Be a man of action. A man of confidence. A man of purpose.

And part of that confidence is exhibiting the fact that if your wife isn't all that ino you, then your ok with that. You will find someone who is. Someone who will treat you right and give you everything you want. including crazy azz monkey sex every night. She needs to KNOW this. That the decision of the relationship is not up to her. Sure, she gets to be happy, but so do you. But.....your not waiting around while she figures that out. Either she is all ino the marriage, or your all out.

Never ever be afraid of your woman, or afraid of wht might be if you confront her. THIS is true confidence. And this is what tweaks that Hypergamy gene in all women. Confidence and strength of character and purpose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## confuseddad

warlock07 said:


> Ok, This will not be popular.
> 
> I don't think this is EA as much as resentment against you. Even if it is an EA, it is at the lower end of the spectrum. The conversations are inappropriate, I don't think Infidelity is the right word for it. She looks she is not happy with her life and resents you some how. She also seems to have a problem connecting to you. Have you asked her what the problem was? Any major lifestyle choice differences? I feel that talking to him is a symptom of the problem, not the actual cause of the problem.


This is accurate. I think there are alot of fatalists on this board. Is or has she had a PA? It's possible but I think unlikely. Her time is always accounted for and there is NO evidence to suggest she ever hooked up with any of these guys, unless she is super diligent about having everyone play dumb about it. 

But, she is not happy and she has told me - mainly when I prod her. She's not good a confrontation at all, it's a weakness that drives me nuts about her. Hence part of the reason she maintains these relationships. But we all know how I feel about that. And so does she. 

I have asked her why she is so unhappy and she can't give me a clear answer. She says vague things like we don't have much in common (she is choosing not to see all the things we have in common though) and that we think differently on things (but cannot give me an example). She is very into sports/athletics and while I enjoy them, I'm not a super athlete. Granted, she knew all of this stuff about me for the 2 years we were together before getting married and never had issue with it. She only got cold after she got pregnant. 

I think we have slid into the "comfort zone", I got lazy and beta, and she started losing attraction, especially while she was nesting. 

As for her not wanting to reconnect, that's what I'm struggling with and I hope the MC can help with this. She won't open up and try. I think her head is too full of negative thoughts to let me try. 

As for today, she is acting fine, although she was kinda distant when she first walked in the door. I would like to have the MC talk to her in an IC session first and then meet as a couple to push forward. The MC is currently trying to get something set up ASAP. 

In the meantime, I'm going to work on manning up. I've stirred the hornets nest enough for one day. She knows how I feel and I'm sure she will push the boundary again. I will be strong.


----------



## confuseddad

alphaomega said:


> Ok...you need some advise, still.....
> 
> You know part of the reason women are so attracted to the OM? Confidence. Simple. The OMs have nothing to lose. So they can be as confident as they want. And, they show it. They can seduce and flower the WW with all the sweet talk all they want. And if it doesn't work, then they don't cre because they will just move onto the next woman.
> 
> So.....stop talking about yourself with your wife. Stop telling her all the little things you are doing to be better, how your changing. Stop it now.
> 
> Instead, just DO those things. Be the man you want to be. Be a man of action. A man of confidence. A man of purpose.
> 
> And part of that confidence is exhibiting the fact that if your wife isn't all that ino you, then your ok with that. You will find someone who is. Someone who will treat you right and give you everything you want. including crazy azz monkey sex every night. She needs to KNOW this. That the decision of the relationship is not up to her. Sure, she gets to be happy, but so do you. But.....your not waiting around while she figures that out. Either she is all ino the marriage, or your all out.
> 
> Never ever be afraid of your woman, or afraid of wht might be if you confront her. THIS is true confidence. And this is what tweaks that Hypergamy gene in all women. Confidence and strength of character and purpose.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for the advice. This is more valuable than saying "you're screwed, you're so beta!" If there was a book written about being alpha in marriage, I'd love to read it.


----------



## warlock07

> I think there are alot of fatalists on this board.


That's because you posted in the wrong board. It is like you wanted confirmation that you are right from other people when you call her out on it. You just found someone that agreed with you. They agreed and some more, which you did not like.


Have you gained weight? Maybe you should take interest in her active lifestyle. Find things that you both enjoy and spend time together.


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## alphaomega

There is a book.

It's called Married Man Sex Life Primer 101, from Amazon for download, by Athol K

It's a great book

Also read Hold onto your NUTs, and No more mr nice guy. All from Amazon ebooks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confuseddad

warlock07 said:


> That's because you posted in the wrong board. It is like you wanted confirmation that you are right from other people when you call her out on it. You just found someone that agreed with you. They agreed and some more, which you did not like.
> 
> 
> Have you gained weight? Maybe you should take interest in her active lifestyle. Find things that you both enjoy and spend time together.


I was told to move the thread from Men's Clubhouse to this area? 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm reading with an open mind, but some of the comments seem to be "kicking a guy when he's down", rather than offering productive advice. I know I have a big problem and I know I am not/have not acted correctly, which is why I'm here in the first place. 

I've not gained any significant weight - maybe 15 lbs total since we got married, but I've lost 10lbs since the beginning of Dec. I'm not in terrible shape, and we do active things as a family (jogging, hiking, etc..). I might suggest a hike this weekend actually. PS...it's amazing the weight loss you go through when you're going through an issue like this! Total loss of appetite.


----------



## Chaparral

Criticisim here is meant to wake posters up out of their own fog. The problem is they want to nice their spouse back into the marraige and it never works. The "harassment" is just people trying to get the betrayed spouse moving for their own good. Its not something personal. Besides the betrayed spouse needs to toughen/man up. Yes some people do get heavy handed. This site can be VERY frustrating watching people make wrong move after wrong move.


----------



## Badsmit

Sounds like you shocked her with the confrontation. She is buying time. Good, she has not left- bad, she has to choose (and you may not like the outcome). Start planning your life with and without her. She is invested in the OM and EXs(same as my wife). The conformation/ultimatum is like taking a warm comforting blanket from a spoiled child and yes she is going to cry/whine/kick up a fuss. Does she think OM relationships are wrong? What would she say if you talked about your marital problems to another woman with whom you had a romantic past? Ask her? Try in subtle ways to get her to see your perspective without seeming whiny. Ask her out on a fun date totally plan it and have a good time. Include some of the things she likes (food/restaurant/movie) but make it your date and do the majority of things that you like. Flirt a little with her. This may start and old spark. If she not to jealous and if there is another women/ female waitress be a little too kind, If the waitress return the favor it can pay dividends by showing her your are still attractive to other people (be careful she can also take this to mean you want other people and do not need her and she is free to leave!) If she says no go without her and try to have a good time. Tell her about it and subtly hint you wish she would have come and she would have enjoyed it. This will send the message there is life without her. 
Also if she is full of negative experiences help her to relive some of you positive memories and if you all don’t have any hurry and make some include her in the planning but show her you are the man and make the arrangements yourself (only ask about her schedule and availability) 
Let her know you will not wait forever but you can do this in a passive way and still remind her of the man she fell for/married.


----------



## lordmayhem

confuseddad said:


> Thank you for the advice. This is more valuable than saying "you're screwed, you're so beta!" If there was a book written about being alpha in marriage, I'd love to read it.


Try also No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover


----------



## jnj express

What are you gonna do to enforce boundaries, if the 2 of you decide to stay together

You have confronted, she has acknowledged, and it seems to have gone no further

Are you waiting for her to decide which way this is to go, or are you gonna demand/enforce NC

Also if she is into exercising/athletics/sports, heavily, why don't you go with her, when she works out, or participates----make the athletics, your connection to bring her back into the mge. The 2 of you seem to need something above and beyond to bind you together

Does your wife go to a gym, to workout, does she participate in any sports, in which she is on a team, co-ed, or women's only----what does she do, to get/keep herself tight physically?????------what I am getting at with the last question is---if she does go to a gym, by herself, and its co-ed, she might be connecting with another guy there---that you know absolutely nothing about-----

I am Just hunting around for other possible reasons, for your marital difficulties!!!!!!!


----------



## Chaparral

confuseddad said:


> This is accurate. I think there are alot of fatalists on this board. Is or has she had a PA? It's possible but I think unlikely. Her time is always accounted for and there is NO evidence to suggest she ever hooked up with any of these guys, unless she is super diligent about having everyone play dumb about it.
> 
> But, she is not happy and she has told me - mainly when I prod her. She's not good a confrontation at all, it's a weakness that drives me nuts about her. Hence part of the reason she maintains these relationships. But we all know how I feel about that. And so does she.
> 
> I have asked her why she is so unhappy and she can't give me a clear answer. She says vague things like we don't have much in common (she is choosing not to see all the things we have in common though) and that we think differently on things (but cannot give me an example). She is very into sports/athletics and while I enjoy them, I'm not a super athlete. Granted, she knew all of this stuff about me for the 2 years we were together before getting married and never had issue with it. She only got cold after she got pregnant.
> 
> I think we have slid into the "comfort zone", I got lazy and beta, and she started losing attraction, especially while she was nesting.
> 
> As for her not wanting to reconnect, that's what I'm struggling with and I hope the MC can help with this. She won't open up and try. I think her head is too full of negative thoughts to let me try.
> 
> As for today, she is acting fine, although she was kinda distant when she first walked in the door. I would like to have the MC talk to her in an IC session first and then meet as a couple to push forward. The MC is currently trying to get something set up ASAP.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm going to work on manning up. I've stirred the hornets nest enough for one day. She knows how I feel and I'm sure she will push the boundary again. I will be strong.


Many people here have felt like there was no time for their partner to cheat. What happens is their partner cheats when they are supposed to be somewhere else. For example, there is a bunch of wives here who are/were cheating with someone at the gym, office, school or at work. Its easy to take off work early or not actually go to the gym. Some people are actually haveing sex in parking lots, at work and at school. I personally know of a couple that were meeting in a factory parking lot at 6am before the factory was open. 

I think its unlikely in your case if you can't find any thing on her phone, email, etc. But if she is going to the gym, playing team/individual sports, shops, works etc. she has plenty of time you are not considering.


----------



## Almostrecovered

have you done any investigation at all to confirm suspicions?

keylogger at the very least?


----------



## confuseddad

jnj express said:


> What are you gonna do to enforce boundaries, if the 2 of you decide to stay together
> 
> You have confronted, she has acknowledged, and it seems to have gone no further
> 
> Are you waiting for her to decide which way this is to go, or are you gonna demand/enforce NC
> 
> Also if she is into exercising/athletics/sports, heavily, why don't you go with her, when she works out, or participates----make the athletics, your connection to bring her back into the mge. The 2 of you seem to need something above and beyond to bind you together
> 
> Does your wife go to a gym, to workout, does she participate in any sports, in which she is on a team, co-ed, or women's only----what does she do, to get/keep herself tight physically?????------what I am getting at with the last question is---if she does go to a gym, by herself, and its co-ed, she might be connecting with another guy there---that you know absolutely nothing about-----
> 
> I am Just hunting around for other possible reasons, for your marital difficulties!!!!!!!


Good question. Since I brought out my stance on her maintaining relationships with exes and told her that I wasn't going to wait around forever for her to make up her mind on our marriage, I think she really needs to do soul searching with the help of IC. My MC reached out to her yesterday but I don't know if my wife responded yet. I'll ask her tonight. 

Then I want to handle those conversations in a joint MC session with her b/c I don't feel equipped to do it by myself - I think she needs to say she wants to work on our marriage first before I can enforce the NC and as of today, I'm not certain she knows what she wants (hence the reason she needs therapy to bring out her issues with me).

If she decides she wants to work on the marriage, then one of the deals is she must be transparent. If she's not willing to work on the marriage, then the obvious is going to have to happen. 

As for activities, we do things together when we can (like going for jogs) but right now the weather is kinda bad for that. She does not belong to a gym, she goes running near our home after work most every night or works out at the house. It makes it hard to do it together when we have a baby - someone has to watch her. When the weather is decent, we go for long walks as a family. I have made more of an effort to get involved with things like running for my own health (I used to run alot in High School and college), but she is much faster than me so it's hard to run together  

As for yesterday, the day after I confronted her, I only saw her for about 1.5 hours. She was alittle distant at first until she saw that I was acting normal and not wanting an uncomfortable house. She then loosened up alittle. She went to a friend's house nearby for a couple hours (yes, I have 100% proof of where she was). I had just climbed into bed when she got home. So I didn't really see much of her yesterday. I did run into her briefly this morning as we crossed paths getting ready for work and she said "see ya later, hun". So I don't know yet. 

She is really confused about what she wants. She does have an underriding anger towards me that has been building over the past year and a half and I think the MC needs to look at why.


----------



## Beowulf

alphaomega said:


> There is a book.
> 
> It's called Married Man Sex Life Primer 101, from Amazon for download, by Athol K
> 
> It's a great book
> 
> Also read Hold onto your NUTs, and No more mr nice guy. All from Amazon ebooks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## COguy

The trap you get into is, if she strings you along with "finding herself" (which is code for I want to get involved with other people), you're tacitly approving of her talking to her exes. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it is better to be firm and say, "NC or we are done, I'm not waiting for you to make a decision." Otherwise she is going to stay in la-la land and continue to find the guy who she wants to run out on you with.

Be firm and set boundaries, stick to them, enforce them. Do this WHILE you are showing that you love her. Do the things she needs you to do to be happy.

The aura you need to give off is, "If you stick with me, we can work through this and be really happy. If you want to be wishy-washy, I'm out the door and you're going to miss out."

Take it from my experience, DO NOT LET HER "FIND HERSELF." That is a bullcrap statement invented by wives who don't want to stay in committed relationships. You do your marriage a huge disservice by allowing that attitude in your marriage. It's the kind of permisiveness that cultivates an affair. Do not let her sit on the fence. Force her into a decision or make it for her.

Unless you enjoy watching your wife get more and more involved with another guy until she has sex with someone else. Take it from me, it's not easy to watch.

I wish I would have had the self-respect when my wife started that wishy-washy stuff to say, "you either stick it out with me and we turn our marriage around, or you leave now." I think her a$$ on the street would have straightened her up pretty quick.


----------



## confuseddad

COguy said:


> The trap you get into is, if she strings you along with "finding herself" (which is code for I want to get involved with other people), you're tacitly approving of her talking to her exes. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it is better to be firm and say, "NC or we are done, I'm not waiting for you to make a decision." Otherwise she is going to stay in la-la land and continue to find the guy who she wants to run out on you with.
> 
> Be firm and set boundaries, stick to them, enforce them. Do this WHILE you are showing that you love her. Do the things she needs you to do to be happy.
> 
> The aura you need to give off is, "If you stick with me, we can work through this and be really happy. If you want to be wishy-washy, I'm out the door and you're going to miss out."
> 
> Take it from my experience, DO NOT LET HER "FIND HERSELF." That is a bullcrap statement invented by wives who don't want to stay in committed relationships. You do your marriage a huge disservice by allowing that attitude in your marriage. It's the kind of permisiveness that cultivates an affair. Do not let her sit on the fence. Force her into a decision or make it for her.
> 
> Unless you enjoy watching your wife get more and more involved with another guy until she has sex with someone else. Take it from me, it's not easy to watch.
> 
> I wish I would have had the self-respect when my wife started that wishy-washy stuff to say, "you either stick it out with me and we turn our marriage around, or you leave now." I think her a$$ on the street would have straightened her up pretty quick.


Point taken and I have thought about that. I'm not going to let this run on for months. I hope to have a clear idea within the next week or so, with the help of my MC, considering the MC didn't even really want me to have the confrontation without meeting with her first. I just couldn't wait. 

I still have no idea what the temperature is of our relationship as of right now. Hopefully I'll be able to put my finger on that alittle better tonight.


----------



## asylumspadez

I agree with COguy. You have to take control of your marriage. Tell her straight up NC with her exs, You are her husband and if she has problems (with your relationship or anything else) then she can go to you and work on them. Going into the arms of another man (in this case men) for emotional comfort is one step away from a PA.

Lay down the law. As soon as you can, Tell her straight up that its either you or them (her exs). Dont keep getting played because it will only hurt you more in the long haul.


----------



## confuseddad

On a side note, does anyone know how to shut off the emails that notify you when there's a new response to the thread? I really don't want to draw attention to my email inbox about this forum and I keep getting emails from this site. I went into my user profile and turned off all of the notifications that I could find but I still get them.


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> Point taken and I have thought about that. I'm not going to let this run on for months. I hope to have a clear idea within the next week or so, with the help of my MC, considering the MC didn't even really want me to have the confrontation without meeting with her first. I just couldn't wait.
> 
> *I still have no idea what the temperature is of our relationship as of right now. * Hopefully I'll be able to put my finger on that alittle better tonight.


It's cold, very very cold.

Let me lay it out for you, *she's not willing to stop talking to her ex-lovers because she isn't sure if she wants to stay married to you.*

Let that sink in for a minute....

Second, some MCs aren't really good at handling situations like these. We had a great MC but she certainly sucked and had me do a lot of stupid stuff when we were going through turmoil. Don't think your MC is the end all be all of advice. My MC advised me to back off the "snooping" and give her space because my wife claimed she was trustworthy. I did that, and lo and behold, that weekend she went out and screwed some guy...great advice!

Knowing what I know now, I would have done exactly what I advised you to. Don't let her sit on the fence. If she wants to "find herself", then she can do it as a single woman. I keep going back to this statement because as someone who's had experience in this it seems so fitting now. She literally wants to have her cake and eat it to. She wants the security and comfort of a loving husband, but doesn't want to commit herself to you in any way. She essentially wants all the advantages of you, but she also wants to act single too.

By allowing the behavior, you show that you have no confidence, you are a doormat. You are allowing yourself to be cheated on. You say with your actions that you are not of high enough stature to be with a woman who is 100% committed to you and only you. That lack of self-respect is a turnoff to your wife and only feeds the cycle further.

A year down the road you are going to look back at these posts and wonder what the heck you were thinking. How did you let her play you so bad? Where were your balls?

The sooner you come to that realization the better, even though it may be extremely difficult in the short-term.


----------



## Beowulf

MC are people too and they are just as frequently wrong as they are right. Treat it like you would a visit to a medical doctor. If you go in for a problem and you feel that the advice you get isn't right....question it. Just like you are responsible for your own body you are also responsible for your part in a marriage. If you don't think the advice you're getting is correct get a second opinion. That's one thing this board is very very good at. Take advantage of the people here that have been through it all before. Experience is worth more than gold.


----------



## confuseddad

I just got an email from my wife. Here's alittle background. I checked her phone several months ago which is how I became aware that she was talking to an ex in the first place. Like I said earlier, she has been completely buried in her phone lately, snatching glances at it at every opportunity (she does get alot of work emails, etc..) so I was suspicious and checked again this weekend. 

She also brings up that I am friends with an ex (the term "ex" for this friend is generous, we just dated for a couple months but stayed friends after I broke it off with her). This friend, I'll call Jane, has been involved in both of our lives. She helped with our wedding, planned and hosted our baby shower, makes gifts for our baby, etc...I never hang out with her without my wife joining us (or at the very least being invited to). Since Jane is pretty much my only female friend that I have any kind of regular communication with, I vented on her one day and my wife said she overheard (apparently I butt dialed her). My wife asked me if I talked to Jane about our issues and I said no (b/c I knew she would react poorly towards Jane and didn't think it fair to put Jane in that spot). My wife later called me out on it and I came clean. I'll call the OM "Joe". 

Please keep in mind, there is no evidence at all of any inappropriate conduct on her part or even Joe's. (no I love you's, you were great last night, I miss you, etc...). 

_"I just wanted to touch base about our conversation the other night. I have had a little time to digest and just had a few thoughts.

I know you said you had an “ephiphany” about what you believed to be one of the problems. What I would like to know is did you go onto my cell phone on Sunday while I was out on my run? Please be honest about this. 

I can see where you are coming from on it not being okay to be conversing with someone of the opposite sex on a regular basis. However, I have tried to explain to you on numerous occasions about Joe in the past. I have never hid him from you and was honest with you about joining him for a drink a few weeks ago. He does not live here so unlike Jane I can’t make him a part of things we do. Nor have I been talking to him as frequently as you do Jane. Jane is around all the time and we have spent a good deal of time with her. I have not involved Joe in our lives or kept up with him like you do w/ Jane.

As I explained before anything I didn’t share with him, or introducing the two of you was simply to spare his feelings. The time in the bar you and I were still very new. You may not like how I handled things but I can’t change the past. 

You mentioned that it was not okay to get “emotional support” from someone else. Yet I do not see how you were not doing the same thing when you and Jane were talking about the problems we are having over lunch. Jane is no different than Joe. She is someone you dated. Someone who clearly liked you way past when the two of you dated. She may not feel that way now but neither does Joe. I still think if given the chance she would feel that way about you. Let’s also not forget that when I asked you about the conversation you did not tell me the truth. So while we have both lied about certain things I am sure you were also thinking it was to avoid a certain reaction from the other person and make things uncomfortable or weird."



_

How would you respond?


----------



## Gabriel

Would removing Jane from your lives be painful for you? If not, then offer to do that. This would call her (what could be a) bluff of bringing her up. It's possible Jane's presence has bothered your W for a long time. It's also possible she is grasping at straws.

God - this is EXACTLY why opposite sex friends are SUCH a bad idea. I have been staunch on this subject since my DDay. If Jane had a husband and you were all friends, then this would be different. But it sounds like she doesn't and it's just Jane in your lives. Bad idea. See why?

Especially if you are doubting your convictions that your wife is having an affair, this is a golden opportunity. You can tell your W that neither of you should have exes, or any opposite sex friend where you aren't friends as couples. Offer to cut ties with Jane, and she cuts all her ties with exes. See what she says. It would be a huge gesture on your part. But if you feel your wife is just masquerading this whole thing, then nix this idea.


----------



## asylumspadez

She is taking what you are doing with your ex and twisting it to benifit her. Its not the same because you allow her around her ex (something she doesnt do and doesnt want) and you invite her to hang out with her when you two (you and your ex) are going to do something (something else she doesnt do either). I think her relationship with "Joe" is more then you first expected.

I agree with Gabriel, Offer to cut ties to your ex if she does the same. If she doesnt then you know he means more to her then what she is letting on. Like I said in my previous posts, Put your foot down and say its either him or me. If she is unhappy then at least say something about it to you and stop going to other people about it because it doesnt help the situation one bit. Communication is everything in a relationship.


----------



## TRy

confuseddad said:


> You mentioned that it was not okay to get “emotional support” from someone else. Yet I do not see how you were not doing the same thing when you and Jane were talking about the problems we are having over lunch. Jane is no different than Joe. She is someone you dated. Someone who clearly liked you way past when the two of you dated. She may not feel that way now but neither does Joe. I still think if given the chance she would feel that way about you. Let’s also not forget that when I asked you about the conversation you did not tell me the truth. So while we have both lied about certain things I am sure you were also thinking it was to avoid a certain reaction from the other person and make things uncomfortable or weird."
> 
> How would you respond?


 I would tell her that now that you know that your relationship with Jane was an issue, you will end it right now. Tell her that although there are important differences between your relationship with Jane and her relationship with the OM, no relations with anyone else comes before your wife. Tell her that in return she should end all contact with the OM.

If she asks for the differences, tell her that it does not matter since you will be ending the relationship, but they center on the fact that Jane is a friend of the marraige and the OM is not. The fact that the other man is hurt by your relationship to the point that she does not want to rub his nose in it, while Jane helped plan the wedding says it all. Also remind her that she was always invited to be part of any meeting with Jane. Again tell her that no matter, you will not argue the difference and end all contact with Jane if she does the same with the OM.

Also, you should ask for two way full transparency where you both share all user names and passwords, and give the other free access to a each others phones, email, FaceBook, text messages, etc. Neither should have anything to hide and this will allow peaceful confirmation that both have ended each relationship.


----------



## COguy

Do not play that game. She needs to come clean point blank. Do not give her one inch of what you do or don't know. She will try with 100% of her energy to pry out what you know before she comes clean.

This is exactly what I did on my d-day and I firmly believe if I would have answered different my wife would have continued lying to me. I told her very clearly, "What I know is irrelevant, you need to come clean with me about EVERYTHING, and if I you are lying about any of it, I am leaving." That's when I got the truth.... Up until that point, she would only tell me things that I could prove. Don't make my mistake. There's obviously something she is trying to hide.

Second, and this is very important, don't be a dumba**. Both Jane and Joe need to be out of the picture. I don't care what you think about her, your wife isn't on board with it and it makes her uncomfortable. End it 100% and don't look back. Your wife is more important than any Jane.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Re: "Jane," say exactly what TRy said. I wouldn't reveal how you know what you know.

Also, what COGuy said is spot on.


----------



## Beowulf

COguy said:


> Do not play that game. She needs to come clean point blank. Do not give her one inch of what you do or don't know. She will try with 100% of her energy to pry out what you know before she comes clean.
> 
> This is exactly what I did on my d-day and I firmly believe if I would have answered different my wife would have continued lying to me. I told her very clearly, "What I know is irrelevant, you need to come clean with me about EVERYTHING, and if I you are lying about any of it, I am leaving." That's when I got the truth.... Up until that point, she would only tell me things that I could prove. Don't make my mistake. There's obviously something she is trying to hide.
> 
> Second, and this is very important, don't be a dumba**. Both Jane and Joe need to be out of the picture. I don't care what you think about her, your wife isn't on board with it and it makes her uncomfortable. End it 100% and don't look back. Your wife is more important than any Jane.


:iagree: 100%

Anyone that makes your spouse uncomfortable is not a friend of the marriage regardless of the circumstances. If she is uncomfortable with Jane then send NC letters to both her and the OM simultaneously.


----------



## Gabriel

I wouldn't spend time pointing out the differences between Jane and the OM. Both of you need to cut off these people and start fresh. If one of you isn't willing, then you have problems we can't help you fix here.


----------



## Chaparral

How many texts emails a month does your wife and OM exchange? You said she hangs onto her phone. Do you hang onto your phone texting Jane? How many texts emails do you exchange with Jane? How serious/long was your wife's relationship with Joe? 

Did yop tell Jane your marriage was a failure? Did you cut her off sexually when the baby was born? She said sex was very important to her, what happened?

Jane helped your with your wedding/marriage, how has Joe helped? You lied about one instance, she's lied your whole marriage.

Make a list and go over it with her. Do not get angry or show weak kneed emotion.


----------



## turnera

Just be honest. Yeah, I looked at your phone; you were making me suspicious. And apparently I was right to be suspicious. Are you going to cut all contact with Joe? If so, I will do the same with Jane.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> How many texts emails a month does your wife and OM exchange? You said she hangs onto her phone. Do you hang onto your phone texting Jane? How many texts emails do you exchange with Jane? How serious/long was your wife's relationship with Joe?
> 
> Did yop tell Jane your marriage was a failure? Did you cut her off sexually when the baby was born? She said sex was very important to her, what happened?
> 
> Jane helped your with your wedding/marriage, how has Joe helped? You lied about one instance, she's lied your whole marriage.
> 
> Make a list and go over it with her. Do not get angry or show weak kneed emotion.


Good points. I'll add those ones to my list. I sent her an email stating "let's talk tonight."


----------



## Chaparral

COguy said:


> Do not play that game. She needs to come clean point blank. Do not give her one inch of what you do or don't know. She will try with 100% of her energy to pry out what you know before she comes clean.
> 
> This is exactly what I did on my d-day and I firmly believe if I would have answered different my wife would have continued lying to me. I told her very clearly, "What I know is irrelevant, you need to come clean with me about EVERYTHING, and if I you are lying about any of it, I am leaving." That's when I got the truth.... Up until that point, she would only tell me things that I could prove. Don't make my mistake. There's obviously something she is trying to hide.
> 
> Second, and this is very important, don't be a dumba**. Both Jane and Joe need to be out of the picture. I don't care what you think about her, your wife isn't on board with it and it makes her uncomfortable. End it 100% and don't look back. Your wife is more important than any Jane.


I am not saying you should not sacrifice your relationship with Jane. However, Jane is just a red herring to throw you off the scent. Otherwise she would have brought Jane up before. She has never shown any jealousy of Jane in the past right? Spouses are generally jealous of exes though. If she had a problem with Jane you would have heard about it. Was she mentioned in any of her texts?

Do not let on in any way how you know about her texts etc. Just say something like, you know you can't keep a secret around here.

Did you have anything to do with her breaking up with Joe? Could he have revenge as a motive? Has he dissed her marriage to her?


----------



## Beowulf

Men are always trying to fix problems. That is why BH are always in their own fog. Husbands of cheating wives always think their wives will have an epiphany and see how wonderful their men truly are. They think there will somehow be this romantic reconciliation and everyone will live happily ever after. Unfortunately that almost never happens. Let me be clear about this: YOU CAN'T FIX THIS! THERE WILL NOT BE A ROMANTIC HAPPY ENDING!

Your wife is the only one that can fix her mess. You cannot control her. You can only control you. And if by some chance she does decide to end contact with the OM it will not be smooth. It will not be pretty. It will not be easy.

Your marriage in its current form is over. Building a new marriage will be hard work. But it can be done and it can be rewarding. Just remember nothing truly good is easy to get or easy to keep.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> How many texts emails a month does your wife and OM exchange? You said she hangs onto her phone. Do you hang onto your phone texting Jane? How many texts emails do you exchange with Jane? How serious/long was your wife's relationship with Joe?
> 
> Did yop tell Jane your marriage was a failure? Did you cut her off sexually when the baby was born? She said sex was very important to her, what happened?
> 
> Jane helped your with your wedding/marriage, how has Joe helped? You lied about one instance, she's lied your whole marriage.
> 
> Make a list and go over it with her. Do not get angry or show weak kneed emotion.


My communication with Jane is maybe 1 phone call per month and all of us going to dinner or her stopping by to see us and the baby for an hour. I'm totally fine with NC with Jane and even told her it might be a reality (much to her dismay at losing a friend, but she understood)

As far as I can tell, her emails and texts are sporadic but often enough that she in certainly in closer communication than I am with my friend. Sometimes a gap of a month, but recently (in January when she started venting about her marriage) it's heated up. That's why I posted on this board to begin with. Saw it escalating.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Just be honest. Yeah, I looked at your phone; you were making me suspicious. And apparently I was right to be suspicious. Are you going to cut all contact with Joe? If so, I will do the same with Jane.


I think he should say " How I know ain't the point." Better yet "Who told me doesn't matter" Red Herrings for everyone! Never reveal your sources iwritten in stone, right?


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> I am not saying you should not sacrifice your relationship with Jane. However, Jane is just a red herring to throw you off the scent. Otherwise she would have brought Jane up before. She has never shown any jealousy of Jane in the past right? Spouses are generally jealous of exes though. If she had a problem with Jane you would have heard about it. Was she mentioned in any of her texts?
> 
> Do not let on in any way how you know about her texts etc. Just say something like, you know you can't keep a secret around here.
> 
> Did you have anything to do with her breaking up with Joe? Could he have revenge as a motive? Has he dissed her marriage to her?


Actually, she has had issues with Jane in the past, but got over them. Jane is kinda quirky and rubs people the wrong way sometimes even though she means well. My wife isn't a huge fan of that even if she recognizes that Jane is a good person. I think she knows deep down that there is a difference.


----------



## tacoma

confuseddad said:


> How would you respond?


I would immediately without hesitation dump Jane.

Ex`s for friends is NEVER a good idea and now you know why.

She`s using jane to justify her betrayal and because jane is still in your life (Even though she shouldn`t be) she`s actually got a point in her justification.

Bad move keeping the Ex as a friend.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> I think he should say " How I know ain't the point." Never reveal your sources iwritten in stone, right?


I think she knows because her phone is quirky and saves drafts at the top, which accidentally happened. So she knows I went on it, no point in denying it. I don't need to give her anything else to load in a gun.


----------



## Chaparral

Has she given you a list of things/reasons why she thinks she chose bad again? It constantly amazes my how many people get blindsided be their spouse when they think things are going great. I mean, sometimes one spouse will turn into a demon in a heartbeat.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> I am not saying you should not sacrifice your relationship with Jane. However, Jane is just a red herring to throw you off the scent. Otherwise she would have brought Jane up before. She has never shown any jealousy of Jane in the past right? Spouses are generally jealous of exes though. If she had a problem with Jane you would have heard about it. Was she mentioned in any of her texts?
> 
> Do not let on in any way how you know about her texts etc. Just say something like, you know you can't keep a secret around here.
> 
> Did you have anything to do with her breaking up with Joe? Could he have revenge as a motive? Has he dissed her marriage to her?


I don't know much about their relationship, but I do not believe they dated long, and they met in another state. According to her (when we first started dating), he still liked her but she just didn't connect with him and she dated several other people after him. She has things in common with him though (like marathon running) and they talk about that stuff alot. I believe she broke it off with him and moved to another state. He does not live here but i think he has friends or family here and visits from time to time (couple times a year maybe).


----------



## Chaparral

confuseddad said:


> I think she knows because her phone is quirky and saves drafts at the top, which accidentally happened. So she knows I went on it, no point in denying it. I don't need to give her anything else to load in a gun.


Then you need new sources of information. You need to see all her texts. Especially all past texts. She may have literally been talked out of the marriage.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> Then you need new sources of information. You need to see all her texts. Especially all past texts. She may have literally been talked out of the marriage.


I don't think so, I have seen enough to know they only recently (within the past week recent) have even started mentioning her marriage.


----------



## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> Has she given you a list of things/reasons why she thinks she chose bad again? It constantly amazes my how many people get blindsided be their spouse when they think things are going great. I mean, sometimes one spouse will turn into a demon in a heartbeat.


No but I plan to review this with the MC and her when I can get it scheduled. I'd love to know too. She just can't seem to put it in words when I ask her...she's just vague (we don't have much in common, we thing differently)


----------



## confuseddad

Beowulf said:


> Men are always trying to fix problems. That is why BH are always in their own fog. Husbands of cheating wives always think their wives will have an epiphany and see how wonderful their men truly are. They think there will somehow be this romantic reconciliation and everyone will live happily ever after. Unfortunately that almost never happens. Let me be clear about this: YOU CAN'T FIX THIS! THERE WILL NOT BE A ROMANTIC HAPPY ENDING!
> 
> Your wife is the only one that can fix her mess. You cannot control her. You can only control you. And if by some chance she does decide to end contact with the OM it will not be smooth. It will not be pretty. It will not be easy.
> 
> Your marriage in its current form is over. Building a new marriage will be hard work. But it can be done and it can be rewarding. Just remember nothing truly good is easy to get or easy to keep.


This is what I am coming to grips with. I just hope she is willing to consider working on it. That's a question I have not gotten a clear answer on yet. (and frankly, i'm alittle scared to know the answer)


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read the book "His Needs Her Needs"?


----------



## Darth Vader

COguy said:


> I will give you my unfiltered, fresh eyes opinion of your marriage.
> 
> *Judging from what you're telling me, it sounds like she was cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, it sounds like she was physically cheating on you while she was pregnant. Also, based on what you're saying, I would be very anxious about the child even being mine.
> 
> I know that sounds horrible and crazy but there are a LOT of kids with misdiagnosed parents.*
> 
> From everything you said I would be insanely surprised if she wasn't in an EA, but more importantly, I would be surprised if she wasn't still sleeping with some of these men. Sounds like she never really gave up her ex, and if he lives anywhere within a one-day drive, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are still hooking up regularly.
> 
> I'm sorry this came off as crude or harsh, but I'm not invested in your relationship and from the little you've told me, it does not look good.
> 
> My advice: get insanely good at snooping. Get a VAR in the house and car, try to read text messages, keylogger on the computer, try to read emails and FB messages, GPS tracking on the phone/car, etc. You know you're going to get proof, you just don't know what the proof is yet.
> 
> Second, I would get a swab from the kid and do an at-home or mailaway paternity test. She's lying to you now, how do you know she's not lying about that? Her snippiness was a little too convenient if you ask me, I think you're paying for someone else's kid.
> 
> While this is going on, I would be adamant about NC with any exes or opposite sex. You need to grow some balls. It's not "not beta" to not bring up her talking to exes. In fact, the way you handled it, makes you sound sans-balls. No guy is going to be OK with her wife talking to an ex like she is. It doesn't make you sound jealous, it makes you sound like a pushover that you would keep letting her do it. You're basically tacitly approving of her chatting up old flames, she even called you out with the "Oh I'm horny, just not with you" line. She's actively telling you she's got the hots for other people, probably having sex with them, right under your nose.
> 
> You need some self-respect ASAP!


Getting preggers right on the Honeymoon?! Yeah, ok, it can happen, but I smell something wrong here! Get a paternity test done on the child!


----------



## Badsmit

You are getting a lot of good advice but remember (myself included) our marriages almost or completely went up in flames for whatever reason. I understand the need for discretion and not telling all of your business, but if you run your marriage like this post YOU ARE In SERIOUS TROUBLE. Your wife (by your description) is a passive person and she seems to have been following your lead… The Jane situation is terrible b/c while she was having self esteem issues you had another women for some level of support. All the questions the forum members are asking are good, but does your wife know how infrequent you speak/spoke / conversate/contact with Jane? She could think you are lying about your and Janes friendship … This coupled with the years of 
Littlie Desire (sex on your part)
Insensitivity to her feeling (When she had nobody and expressed her displeasure with Jane)
(I don’t want to recount your issues listed in your previous post) 
Unless you have cheated (EA/PA) or been a totally insensitive Jerk, You situation (prognosis of a good outcome) is the best I have seen on the forum. With that said it doesn’t look good. You have a lot of work. Yes she is going o have to want to work this out but if you want it give HER A REASON TO FIGHT other than ultimatums/rules that you have not adhered to. You are running the risk of portraying yourself and a self-centered (do as I say not as I do) person by keeping and making her deal with JANE…. 
YOU KNOW YOUR WIFE BEST AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO WIN HER IN THE FIRST PLACE……


----------



## COguy

Badsmit said:


> You are getting a lot of good advice but remember (myself included) our marriages almost or completely went up in flames for whatever reason. I understand the need for discretion and not telling all of your business, but if you run your marriage like this post YOU ARE In SERIOUS TROUBLE. Your wife (by your description) is a passive person and she seems to have been following your lead… The Jane situation is terrible b/c while she was having self esteem issues you had another women for some level of support. All the questions the forum members are asking are good, but does your wife know how infrequent you speak/spoke / conversate/contact with Jane? She could think you are lying about your and Janes friendship … This coupled with the years of
> Littlie Desire (sex on your part)
> Insensitivity to her feeling (When she had nobody and expressed her displeasure with Jane)
> (I don’t want to recount your issues listed in your previous post)
> Unless you have cheated (EA/PA) or been a totally insensitive Jerk, You situation (prognosis of a good outcome) is the best I have seen on the forum. With that said it doesn’t look good. You have a lot of work. Yes she is going o have to want to work this out but if you want it give HER A REASON TO FIGHT other than ultimatums/rules that you have not adhered to. You are running the risk of portraying yourself and a self-centered (do as I say not as I do) person by keeping and making her deal with JANE….
> YOU KNOW YOUR WIFE BEST AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO WIN HER IN THE FIRST PLACE……


It's hard (read impossible) to work oo your marriage while shes still getting emotional support from
ex-lovers. They both need to drop the baggage before they can move on. if she isnt ready to give up the old flames though,
nothing he can do will help. Too many people have played the appeasement game and lost. theres a reason we give the advice we do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Badsmit

@Coguy I don’t want to thread jack, with that said 
I understand and agree 99% of the time however you can’t fix every problem with a sledge hammer/nuclear option. The difference I am getting from his situation is there is a lot more there and his wife (if she has a passive nature) is acting out (wrongly). It seems like he has arrived at a point in his relationship where he is ready to be a stand up guy and do the right thing. Problem (as I see it) he has not accounted for some of his pass transgressions and not fully come to terms with how they have affected his wife. From the limited info I get she still loves him but does not know how to love him and is scared she will relive their past. The reason I am telling him to fight and simultaneously take a somewhat hard line is she may not be gone and he can overtime (with her consent) win her back. He knows his wife best and there past, Once again I think there is a small window to win her back. Confronting her now for behaviors/actions he himself is guilty could give her the wrong impression. I agree there are certain act situations that call for a hard-line but I don’t think his wife is at that point..


----------



## COguy

Badsmit said:


> @Coguy I don’t want to thread jack, with that said
> I understand and agree 99% of the time however you can’t fix every problem with a sledge hammer/nuclear option. The difference I am getting from his situation is there is a lot more there and his wife (if she has a passive nature) is acting out (wrongly). It seems like he has arrived at a point in his relationship where he is ready to be a stand up guy and do the right thing. Problem (as I see it) he has not accounted for some of his pass transgressions and not fully come to terms with how they have affected his wife. From the limited info I get she still loves him but does not know how to love him and is scared she will relive their past. The reason I am telling him to fight and simultaneously take a somewhat hard line is she may not be gone and he can overtime (with her consent) win her back. He knows his wife best and there past, Once again I think there is a small window to win her back. Confronting her now for behaviors/actions he himself is guilty could give her the wrong impression. I agree there are certain act situations that call for a hard-line but I don’t think his wife is at that point..


from what i saw everyone gave him that advice. they both need to ditch the exes pronto.

i agree, kind of boneheaded on the OPs part to keep this other girl in his wife while asking her to get rid of the same. 

BUT, if they both dont take action, and quickly, I see an affair in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

confuseddad said:


> I just got an email from my wife. Here's alittle background. I checked her phone several months ago which is how I became aware that she was talking to an ex in the first place. Like I said earlier, she has been completely buried in her phone lately, snatching glances at it at every opportunity (she does get alot of work emails, etc..) so I was suspicious and checked again this weekend.
> 
> She also brings up that I am friends with an ex (the term "ex" for this friend is generous, we just dated for a couple months but stayed friends after I broke it off with her). This friend, I'll call Jane, has been involved in both of our lives. She helped with our wedding, planned and hosted our baby shower, makes gifts for our baby, etc...I never hang out with her without my wife joining us (or at the very least being invited to). Since Jane is pretty much my only female friend that I have any kind of regular communication with, I vented on her one day and my wife said she overheard (apparently I butt dialed her). My wife asked me if I talked to Jane about our issues and I said no (b/c I knew she would react poorly towards Jane and didn't think it fair to put Jane in that spot). My wife later called me out on it and I came clean. I'll call the OM "Joe".
> 
> Please keep in mind, there is no evidence at all of any inappropriate conduct on her part or even Joe's. (no I love you's, you were great last night, I miss you, etc...).
> 
> _"I just wanted to touch base about our conversation the other night. I have had a little time to digest and just had a few thoughts.
> 
> I know you said you had an “ephiphany” about what you believed to be one of the problems. What I would like to know is did you go onto my cell phone on Sunday while I was out on my run? Please be honest about this.
> 
> I can see where you are coming from on it not being okay to be conversing with someone of the opposite sex on a regular basis. However, I have tried to explain to you on numerous occasions about Joe in the past. I have never hid him from you and was honest with you about joining him for a drink a few weeks ago. He does not live here so unlike Jane I can’t make him a part of things we do. Nor have I been talking to him as frequently as you do Jane. Jane is around all the time and we have spent a good deal of time with her. I have not involved Joe in our lives or kept up with him like you do w/ Jane.
> 
> As I explained before anything I didn’t share with him, or introducing the two of you was simply to spare his feelings. The time in the bar you and I were still very new. You may not like how I handled things but I can’t change the past.
> 
> You mentioned that it was not okay to get “emotional support” from someone else. Yet I do not see how you were not doing the same thing when you and Jane were talking about the problems we are having over lunch. Jane is no different than Joe. She is someone you dated. Someone who clearly liked you way past when the two of you dated. She may not feel that way now but neither does Joe. I still think if given the chance she would feel that way about you. Let’s also not forget that when I asked you about the conversation you did not tell me the truth. So while we have both lied about certain things I am sure you were also thinking it was to avoid a certain reaction from the other person and make things uncomfortable or weird."
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> How would you respond?


I will only say this regarding your wife..

If Hypocrisy, was uranium! You power the planet with it.

That´s all


----------



## confuseddad

Jonesey said:


> I will only say this regarding your wife..
> 
> If Hypocrisy, was uranium! You power the planet with it.
> 
> That´s all


She knows Jane well, has hung out with her without me, etc... She is just using her as justification for her own actions. This is apples and oranges.


----------



## confuseddad

So she was "not in the mood" to talk last night and said she was exhausted from a long stressful day and did not want to go through a 2 hour conversation at that moment. We both went to bed. 

I believe this marriage is over. I have begun planning my life after divorce.


----------



## Shaggy

here's the big difference between Jane and the OM.

You will have the conversations and meetings in plain sight of your wife.You've even included her.

With the OM, the wife is choosing to protect the OM's feelings and dislike of you - over your feelings. She is using this as a reason is be "private" with him.


----------



## turnera

Don't go making decisions when you're upset. Plan to separate; leave divorce off the table for now. It's a rollercoaster.


----------



## confuseddad

I sent her a text this morning suggesting that she make a solo appt. for the therapist, which she responded "that's fine". I sent her a follow up alittle while later saying "this is surreal where we are. Does not feel real" to which she responded "this is hard for me too."

She has a therapy apt. tomorrow at 11am and I do not know if she is going to want to have a talk with me tonight before she goes. So I think she is going to go into this session and spout off that I invade her privacy and that I'm a hypocrite for maintaining contact with Jane and that her relationship with OM is the same (like she suggests in her email). I do not think she will be honest with herself. I really think she needs to hear what she's really doing. I honestly think she believes she isn't doing anything wrong.


----------



## turnera

If I were you, I'd call the therapist ahead of time just to let him/her know that she is in an active affair. I guarantee she won't admit it. The IC can't give her good advice if he doesn't know that fact.


----------



## turnera

And stop contacting her. She needs to hear from you 'Until you stop contacting OM, I have nothing to say to you.'


----------



## Jonesey

confuseddad said:


> She knows Jane well, has hung out with her without me, etc... She is just using her as justification for her own actions. This is apples and oranges.


Exactly!!


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> I sent her a text this morning suggesting that she make a solo appt. for the therapist, which she responded "that's fine". I sent her a follow up alittle while later saying "this is surreal where we are. Does not feel real" to which she responded "this is hard for me too."
> 
> She has a therapy apt. tomorrow at 11am and I do not know if she is going to want to have a talk with me tonight before she goes. So I think she is going to go into this session and spout off that I invade her privacy and that I'm a hypocrite for maintaining contact with Jane and that her relationship with OM is the same (like she suggests in her email). I do not think she will be honest with herself. I really think she needs to hear what she's really doing. I honestly think she believes she isn't doing anything wrong.


Dude your wife is uncomfortable with you talking to her. So you need to stop. No ifs ands or buts about it. Your unwillingness to end your conversation with Jane shows that there is more there then you care to admit. If your wife is uncomfortable, you end it, PERIOD. 

Look at my posts, I am in no way giving your wife any leeway, but you are being an idiot. If you came on here and asked advice because your wife was uncomfortable with you talking to an ex you would here 10 pages of people telling you how you are a dumba** for staying in contact with her. Don't think that advice changes because your wife is involved in an EA.

Whatever upside there is in keeping contact with Jane, is offset by the uncomfortability it provides to your wife. End that sh*t NOW and stop making excuses for it. You're really pissing me off with the way you are trying to justify it. Especially when it's clear your wife has been not ok with it for a while (see where she writes that your friend likes you and you don't seem to care).

So yeah your wife shouldn't use that as an excuse, but honestly she shouldn't be with you if you can't stop talking to your ex when she tells you she has a problem with it and you don't care.


----------



## confuseddad

I've already agreed to do this and have already told Jane that if we are to reconcile, I would no longer be friends with her and have no contact. She understood. If my wife was willing to talk last night, this was the first thing I would have told her. 

But I stand by my statement that my wife is just using this as justification to be in a secret relationship with an ex. And yes, she will use it against me.


----------



## Entropy3000

confuseddad said:


> Point taken and I have thought about that. I'm not going to let this run on for months. I hope to have a clear idea within the next week or so, with the help of my MC, considering the MC didn't even really want me to have the confrontation without meeting with her first. I just couldn't wait.
> 
> I still have no idea what the temperature is of our relationship as of right now. Hopefully I'll be able to put my finger on that alittle better tonight.


She cannot work on her marriage or even make a propper decsion about it until she goes full NC for a number of weeks and completes going through withdrawal. You do not give her time. Not even a week.


----------



## confuseddad

Entropy3000 said:


> She cannot work on her marriage or even make a propper decsion about it until she goes full NC for a number of weeks and completes going through withdrawal. You do not give her time. Not even a week.


This is coming to a head right now. She has a MC session tomorrow and then we will be having a couples session on Monday (assuming we make it through the weekend).


----------



## confuseddad

I have been avoiding replying to her email b/c I wanted to do it in person (partly to force her into her uncomfortable zone of confrontation, and partly not to leave any email trail). It looks like we won't have another chance tonight due to some work scheduling issues. But I really want her to understand why I am confronting her and why I checked her phone before she goes to this therapy session. 

Any thoughts on doing this via email?


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> I've already agreed to do this and have already told Jane that if we are to reconcile, I would no longer be friends with her and have no contact. She understood. If my wife was willing to talk last night, this was the first thing I would have told her.
> 
> But I stand by my statement that my wife is just using this as justification to be in a secret relationship with an ex. And yes, she will use it against me.


Are you still married? If yes, no contact with Jane. Until your papers are signed, no contact with Jane. If you decide to reconcile (after she decides to), no contact with Jane.

Stop waiting, just do it now. You're asking your wife to give up fulfillment of someone outside the marriage, you need to have already done so.

Yes your wife is using it as an excuse, but it's pretty dumb of you to give her the ammo in the first place. My honest assessment of you is that if you can't respect your wife's feelings when she asks you to drop this friend, you're an a**hat and she should leave you. That doesn't condone her going out and having an EA, but it certainly won't make her want to reconcile with you, and I can't blame her.

You're making excuses about why you should keep Jane in the picture. There aren't any valid ones.


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> I have been avoiding replying to her email b/c I wanted to do it in person (partly to force her into her uncomfortable zone of confrontation, and partly not to leave any email trail). It looks like we won't have another chance tonight due to some work scheduling issues. But I really want her to understand why I am confronting her and why I checked her phone before she goes to this therapy session.
> 
> Any thoughts on doing this via email?


Yeah, don't do it. Wait.


----------



## confuseddad

COguy said:


> Are you still married? If yes, no contact with Jane. Until your papers are signed, no contact with Jane. If you decide to reconcile (after she decides to), no contact with Jane.
> 
> Stop waiting, just do it now. You're asking your wife to give up fulfillment of someone outside the marriage, you need to have already done so.
> 
> Yes your wife is using it as an excuse, but it's pretty dumb of you to give her the ammo in the first place. My honest assessment of you is that if you can't respect your wife's feelings when she asks you to drop this friend, you're an a**hat and she should leave you. That doesn't condone her going out and having an EA, but it certainly won't make her want to reconcile with you, and I can't blame her.
> 
> You're making excuses about why you should keep Jane in the picture. There aren't any valid ones.


*I agree with you and I'm doing it and I'm not arguing with you. 
*

But this is just crazy if you actually really knew the situation (like you knew personally the parties involved and how Jane and my wife have interacted in the past). My wife knows this too. She knows there is a real difference here. I mean, she was just giving Jane relationship advice a couple weeks ago on a guy she was dating who wasn't healthy for her. (ironic, huh?)


----------



## Gabriel

:iagree:


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> *I agree with you and I'm doing it and I'm not arguing with you.
> *
> 
> But this is just crazy if you actually really knew the situation (like you knew personally the parties involved and how Jane and my wife have interacted in the past). My wife knows this too. She knows there is a real difference here. I mean, she was just giving Jane relationship advice a couple weeks ago on a guy she was dating who wasn't healthy for her. (ironic, huh?)


Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how tight they are or how obvious it is you don't like her or whatever. She's expressed her disdain for it, she thinks there's something more on the other's side. There is a reason you will see time and time again on this site people denouncing opposite sex friendships, especially with exes.

Yes your wife is making it an excuse to do it too. That is besides the point. Your wife has expressed her concern, so there should not be any more contact with this person, and it should not be conditional on her acting first. This is rule #1 in healthy marriages, respecting the feelings of your spouse.


----------



## aeg512

The WW has made Jane an issue because that is the only thing she can put her hands on to try to defend what she has done. From the information provided it is obvious that Jane is a friend of the family not just the BS. It is my firm belief that if you have more than a double digit IQ, you should be able to keep boundries intact, and there is no info provided here that would make me believe otherwise. (I am on the boards to gain insight on communication and have noted a lot of comments posted are out in left field.)


----------



## turnera

confuseddad said:


> *I agree with you and I'm doing it and I'm not arguing with you. *
> 
> 
> But this is just crazy if you actually really knew the situation


So what?

Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?


----------



## Beowulf

When you take away all her red herrings and excuses she'll be left with nothing to muddy the waters. Then you'll know whether she'll truly own her sh!t or not and you can be comfortable with your decision either way.


----------



## Entropy3000

Beowulf said:


> *Men are always trying to fix problems. That is why BH are always in their own fog.* Husbands of cheating wives always think their wives will have an epiphany and see how wonderful their men truly are. They think there will somehow be this romantic reconciliation and everyone will live happily ever after. Unfortunately that almost never happens. Let me be clear about this: YOU CAN'T FIX THIS! THERE WILL NOT BE A ROMANTIC HAPPY ENDING!
> 
> Your wife is the only one that can fix her mess. You cannot control her. You can only control you. And if by some chance she does decide to end contact with the OM it will not be smooth. It will not be pretty. It will not be easy.
> 
> Your marriage in its current form is over. Building a new marriage will be hard work. But it can be done and it can be rewarding. Just remember nothing truly good is easy to get or easy to keep.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## confuseddad

Ok, so here's the latest on my situation. I've been reading Married Man's Sex Primer - wish I would have found that book 3 years ago! 

I finally confirmed she is having an emotional affair (saw it escalate to this level on Friday), so my suspicions were correct. The OM basically reaches out to my wife (who vented to him about her marriage problems) and say says "if you ever need a weekend away to clear your head, I'm here for you. I really feel like we connect" - he lives in another state. 

She responds to him with something like "that's for the offer, I might just take you up on that someday! Things here are bad and I'm facing some hard decisions soon. I also have been thinking about that, and I think you really understand me like nobody else. I wish I would have realized this a few years ago (*when they dated), I guess it's another mistake to add to a long list of them". 

This escalation comes after us not talking for 3 days after receiving the email my wife sent to me. I had wanted to talk in person but for a number of reasons, we weren't able to. 

So I go home on Friday, and confront her. I tell her that I know she is having an emotional affair and is planning to escalate it to a physical one. I tell her that I will not stand around while she does that. I also tell her that there is no possible good outcome for our marriage if she continues with him and that she has been a terrible wife and that I deserve better. 

She, of course, denies the affair and says that they are just friends and that I'm being ridiculous. I tell her that I am not going to argue with her, that she knows deep down inside what she is doing and she knows it is wrong, whether she wants to admit it to me or not. 

She then starts to rehash all of her issues with me, I basically tell her that she is giving up on the marriage, not me. That I do not share her doomsday feelings about us. I reiterate that I will not sit by and watch her set up her life the way she wants it while I act like bobo the clown. 

She finally says that I never answered her question about going on her phone. I tell her that I did because she was acting like a cheater. And I told her that I confirmed my suspicions. She said in passing that she would stop talking to him (but didn't really seem serious at all). I asked her what she wanted to do now, and told her that we were heading for a divorce. She kinda backpedaled and said she didn't think we'd be at divorce right now without trying a trial separation. I did not respond. 

Then I go to bed. She stays up for another hour, and I come to find out that she has most likely received and sent another message to the OM via Facebook. She then proceeds to delete all messages from him on her account. 

The next morning (Saturday), I'm still fuming from the events of the past 24 hours. I'm basically freezing her out and playing with my baby. She is acting very nice to me and keeps asking me what is wrong. I finally tell her "I'm really pissed at you. How dare you bring another man into our marriage! You're cheating on me and I am NOT OKAY WITH IT!". She gets really defensive, denies cheating again and finally says, "Fine! I'll stop all emails, texts...er, ah, um.." Then I say, "what, you can't even say it!?", and she says "I'll drop all contact with him". I tell her that I cannot believe it has come to this to get her to agree. 

The rest of the weekend, I decide to carry an attitude of "screw it, it's over so I'm going to get what I want out of it". So we have sex several times (by sending her texts like "when you get home from the store, we are getting naked") and I choose positions she previously says she didn't want to try and didn't put up a fuss (she used to like them but when she started denying me sex after the baby, she limited what she would do). She also responded each time I said I was ready to get "into bed" - other than last night when she had been complaining all night of an upset belly. 

The whole weekend after our conversation, she was really nice to me. This morning, she goes to work, and I can tell that she is confiding in her co-worker - a female - about our conversations. Because immediately, she changes her passwords to her facebook and gmail. She is also due for a therapy apt. but I am not sure if she has made a follow-up apt. My therapist wants to see me one-on-one again. 

I do not believe she has stopped talking to the OM, but now she is covering her tracks more closely. 

So, now I have a plan to continue to work on myself, keep acting more alpha (especially with sex) and keep my distance with her until she can commit to working on our relationship and be transparent with her phone and email.


----------



## snap

Get a keylogger and a VAR.


----------



## COguy

confuseddad said:


> Ok, so here's the latest on my situation. I've been reading Married Man's Sex Primer - wish I would have found that book 3 years ago!
> 
> I finally confirmed she is having an emotional affair (saw it escalate to this level on Friday), so my suspicions were correct. The OM basically reaches out to my wife (who vented to him about her marriage problems) and say says "if you ever need a weekend away to clear your head, I'm here for you. I really feel like we connect" - he lives in another state.
> 
> She responds to him with something like "that's for the offer, I might just take you up on that someday! Things here are bad and I'm facing some hard decisions soon. I also have been thinking about that, and I think you really understand me like nobody else. I wish I would have realized this a few years ago (*when they dated), I guess it's another mistake to add to a long list of them".
> 
> This escalation comes after us not talking for 3 days after receiving the email my wife sent to me. I had wanted to talk in person but for a number of reasons, we weren't able to.
> 
> So I go home on Friday, and confront her. I tell her that I know she is having an emotional affair and is planning to escalate it to a physical one. I tell her that I will not stand around while she does that. I also tell her that there is possible good outcome for our marriage if she continues with him and that she has been a terrible wife and that I deserve better.
> 
> She, of course, denies the affair and says that they are just friends and that I'm being ridiculous. I tell her that I am not going to argue with her, that she knows deep down inside what she is doing and she knows it is wrong, whether she wants to admit it to me or not.
> 
> She then starts to rehash all of her issues with me, I basically tell her that she is giving up on the marriage, not me. That I do not share her doomsday feelings about us. I reiterate that I will not sit by and watch her set up her life the way she wants it while I act like bobo the clown.
> 
> She finally says that I never answered her question about going on her phone. I tell her that I did because she was acting like a cheater. And I told her that I confirmed my suspicions. She said in passing that she would stop talking to him (but didn't really seem serious at all). I asked her what she wanted to do now, and told her that we were heading for a divorce. She kinda backpedaled and said she didn't think we'd be at divorce right now without trying a trial separation. I did not respond.
> 
> Then I go to bed. She stays up for another hour, and I come to find out that she has most likely received and sent another message to the OM via Facebook. She then proceeds to delete all messages from him on her account.
> 
> The next morning (Saturday), I'm still fuming from the events of the past 24 hours. I'm basically freezing her out and playing with my baby. She is acting very nice to me and keeps asking me what is wrong. I finally tell her "I'm really pissed at you. How dare you bring another man into our marriage! You're cheating on me and I am NOT OKAY WITH IT!". She gets really defensive, denies cheating again and finally says, "Fine! I'll stop all emails, texts...er, ah, um.." Then I say, "what, you can't even say it!?", and she says "I'll drop all contact with him". I tell her that I cannot believe it has come to this to get her to agree.
> 
> The rest of the weekend, I decide to carry an attitude of "screw it, it's over so I'm going to get what I want out of it". So we have sex several times (by sending her texts like "when you get home from the store, we are getting naked") and I choose positions she previously says she didn't want to try and didn't put up a fuss (she used to like them but when she started denying me sex after the baby, she limited what she would do). She also responded each time I said I was ready to get "into bed" - other than last night when she had been complaining all night of an upset belly.
> 
> The whole weekend after our conversation, she was really nice to me. This morning, she goes to work, and I can tell that she is confiding in her co-worker - a female - about our conversations. Because immediately, she changes her passwords to her facebook and gmail. She is also due for a therapy apt. but I am not sure if she has made a follow-up apt. My therapist wants to see me one-on-one again.
> 
> I do not believe she has stopped talking to the OM, but now she is covering her tracks more closely.
> 
> So, now I have a plan to continue to work on myself, keep acting more alpha (especially with sex) and keep my distance with her until she can commit to working on our relationship and be transparent with her phone and email.


Dude....why are you having sex with a cheater? She basically has no consequences for cheating on you and she's just taking her affair underground. You're not solving your issues you are rug sweeping. You had the right idea kicking her out till she came clean. Now she's clear that she's lying to you, and she's going to keep doing it. You can't sex your way out of her adultery.

You need to keep your johnson to yourself until she's ready to commit 100%. Adulterous women do crazy crap, mine had a ONS at a bar.......


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## confuseddad

snap said:


> Get a keylogger and a VAR.


VAR and put it where?


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## confuseddad

I'm having sex with her b/c I want to have sex. This is purely for my own enjoyment. If I am getting a divorce, then I am going to have as much of it as I can before then. She has denied me for long enough. 

Plus she used to complain about it, so now she can scratch this off her list of all the other crap that made her marriage so miserable.


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## turnera

Velcro it under the seat of her car. That's where she's most likely to talk to him.


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## confuseddad

COguy said:


> Dude....why are you having sex with a cheater? She basically has no consequences for cheating on you and she's just taking her affair underground. You're not solving your issues you are rug sweeping. You had the right idea kicking her out till she came clean. Now she's clear that she's lying to you, and she's going to keep doing it. You can't sex your way out of her adultery.
> 
> You need to keep your johnson to yourself until she's ready to commit 100%. Adulterous women do crazy crap, mine had a ONS at a bar.......


BTW, I did tell her I needed complete transparency (and plan to check her phone while she is standing in front of me at random times.) However, the big thing, and this is going to come out this week at the therapist meeting, is she has not yet said she is willing to work on our marriage. Until she does so, I cannot enforce anything with the NC with the OM. She needs to sh*t or get off the pot. 

She now knows that I know what she is up to, even though I don't think she even realized she was in an emotional affair until this weekend.


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## turnera

You need to understand that a woman only usually loves one man at a time. It's how we're wired. Right now, her affection is with OM. So, no, she is NOT going to be willing to work on a marriage with a man she's convinced she doesn't love.

Why should she?

There is a period of withdrawal that has to occur, and this can only happen AFTER she agrees to never contact him, and then AFTER she actually follows through. Many cheaters actually fall off the wagon several times before they give up the OM/OW for good. It is, after all, a drug.


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## confuseddad

turnera said:


> You need to understand that a woman only usually loves one man at a time. It's how we're wired. Right now, her affection is with OM. So, no, she is NOT going to be willing to work on a marriage with a man she's convinced she doesn't love.
> 
> Why should she?
> 
> There is a period of withdrawal that has to occur, and this can only happen AFTER she agrees to never contact him, and then AFTER she actually follows through. Many cheaters actually fall off the wagon several times before they give up the OM/OW for good. It is, after all, a drug.


Do I have to serve her papers to get her to realize this? Also, how do you ever believe someone who has been lying to you again when they say that they went NC?

And how do you get the OM to out of the picture if he has been floating around in the wings for years - ever since she dumped him (she admitted that she "broke his heart") at least 4.5 years ago. I don't have respect for this guy, he's even more Beta than me! He's also single and she says he accepted a job in another city recently. She isn't moving. She is going to be a single mom approaching 40, twice divorced. I wonder when that reality is going to hit her. 

I think I know the answer to my questions....I probably need to file for divorce.


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## Unsure in Seattle

Sometimes a real shock is needed to eat thru the "fog."


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## spudster

...or divorce will force her the other direction. Either way, you will be making some progress towards no longer being #2 in her life.

Making a decision, good or bad, and then taking a stand for it and refusing to deviate, is the purest sign of a true human being. Which are you?

Or will you compromise yourself again?


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## turnera

You can't 'make' her do what you want.

All you can do is know what YOU will accept. And make that very clear to her. And move forward to achieve what YOU want.

Right now, what you want is a wife who doesn't cheat. 

Therefore, you have to move forward without her because she IS NOT THE WIFE WHO DOESN'T CHEAT. Make sense?

When she sees you moving forward, then SHE has a choice - abandon OM and come back, or wave goodbye.

Either way, you retain your dignity. You may miss her, but you'll have realized...you never had any control over her in the first place.


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## bellamaxjoy

Read the Boundaries book by Dr. Cloud


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## COguy

confuseddad said:


> Do I have to serve her papers to get her to realize this? Also, how do you ever believe someone who has been lying to you again when they say that they went NC?
> 
> And how do you get the OM to out of the picture if he has been floating around in the wings for years - ever since she dumped him (she admitted that she "broke his heart") at least 4.5 years ago. I don't have respect for this guy, he's even more Beta than me! He's also single and she says he accepted a job in another city recently. She isn't moving. She is going to be a single mom approaching 40, twice divorced. I wonder when that reality is going to hit her.
> 
> I think I know the answer to my questions....I probably need to file for divorce.


You're sending mixed messages. You say you're being strong and needing a divorce, then you have sex with her. You're saying it's over but you don't know how to get her to stop her affair. Dude you're all over the place.

First, I'd cut off all sex. It's just reinforcing that you're still committed, even if you don't think that's the case.

Second, if she doesn't want to commit, you need to kick her out. If she hasn't said, "I want to work on the marriage 100%." Then by allowing her to stay you are in essence telling her that you are ok living with a woman who wants to see other people.

You are too damn wishy washy.

The advice you'll hear on here time and time again is that if you want to keep your wife, you need to kick her to the curb and knock her off her A$$. Give her the D papers and follow through with them until and unless she's 100% remorseful.

If you want a D and don't want to reconcile then stop caring about her contact with OM and stop having sex with her.

Either way sex is bad with this one. It either reinforces that you're still connected (when she's doing wrong), or if you are done with her, it means you're using her for sex, which makes you a total D-bag.


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## calif_hope

The fact that she changed her passwords shows a clear intention to continue contact with OM. Transparacy is a must, trust must be earned back, no privacy between married couple were one is a validated lier on the other deciding to stay it go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

I disagree about not having sex with her. Chemicals/hormones are exchanged both ways during sex and if you want her to rebond with you that is one of the most important things to do. Remember to show that you are strong and independent if you have to be. One of the most attractive things you can show a woman is how you can get along fine without her. I like what you are doing. If she was all that stuck on the other man she would refuse sex altogether. 

It might also be a good idea to remind her that she used to ba able to communicate with you just fine but she quit trying.

JMO


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## asylumspadez

If she still hasnt given up on the OM and she hasnt said she wants to save your marriage then clearly she doesnt want to. Just give her the divorce papers and be on your way because she isnt worth all the trouble that she is putting you through.


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## confuseddad

chapparal said:


> I disagree about not having sex with her. Chemicals/hormones are exchanged both ways during sex and if you want her to rebond with you that is one of the most important things to do. Remember to show that you are strong and independent if you have to be. One of the most attractive things you can show a woman is how you can get along fine without her. I like what you are doing. If she was all that stuck on the other man she would refuse sex altogether.
> 
> It might also be a good idea to remind her that she used to ba able to communicate with you just fine but she quit trying.
> 
> JMO


I'm meeting with my MC tomorrow to see what she has to say, but I do plan to put the screws to the relationship and find out what I am going to do. Part of me is secretly hoping that our sexual relations will reconnect us on some basic level. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking "if I can show her the alpha man I can be, maybe she'll realize she's got it good already at home". I've made sure she is "pleased" with our encounters to hopefully release some chemical in her brain.


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## Chaparral

confuseddad said:


> I'm meeting with my MC tomorrow to see what she has to say, but I do plan to put the screws to the relationship and find out what I am going to do. Part of me is secretly hoping that our sexual relations will reconnect us on some basic level. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking "if I can show her the alpha man I can be, maybe she'll realize she's got it good already at home". I've made sure she is "pleased" with our encounters to hopefully release some chemical in her brain.


:smthumbup::lol::iagree:


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## COguy

confuseddad said:


> I'm meeting with my MC tomorrow to see what she has to say, but I do plan to put the screws to the relationship and find out what I am going to do. Part of me is secretly hoping that our sexual relations will reconnect us on some basic level. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking "if I can show her the alpha man I can be, maybe she'll realize she's got it good already at home". I've made sure she is "pleased" with our encounters to hopefully release some chemical in her brain.


You're hoping, but you'd be dead wrong. Having sex does the opposite. It shows your a doormat and you can be easily manipulated. You have a 0% chance of your wife coming back to you before she's committed 100% to your marriage. And her telling you she's committed doesn't mean she's committed. It's pretty clear from her actions that she still has every intention of lying and cheating on you.

She's not even remorseful, she's still blaming you for everything.

If you stay weak on this, you might as well drive her to the other guy's house so she can get it over with. You're having sex with someone that doesn't want to be committed to you HOPING that she'll "see the light." Do you realize what you sound like? You sound like an emotionally abused woman who gets pregnant with some jacka**es baby to "save the relationship."


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## happyman64

CD,

Keep having sex. Keep pushing. I think you are doing the right thing to re-engage with your wife.

Get your meeting in this week and see where both of you are in the relationship.

If she wants to work on the marriage then you both agree what it will take to R. If she wants a separation or is still sitting on the fence then maybe it is time to split apart.

You make that decision. Time is on your side. Use it.

HM64


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## Shaggy

You better have a key logger on you computer ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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