# Boundaries Within Affairs: "Fog" and "Compartmentalization"



## Val (Jan 8, 2014)

From what I've read, in trying to understand certain things about affairs and WS's. Is that for many, cheating was a boundary they once believed themselves incapable of crossing. They just could never do that to anyone. Perhaps along the sames lines as a relatively moral/normal/sane person would believe they were incapable of molesting a child, murdering someone, committing a robbery ect... Just don't have it in them, so to speak.

I imagine this will be an uncomfortable topic for many. The questions following are for the WS's. 

Were there boundaries within your affairs? Lines you believe you would have never crossed?

Examples:

*Would have never sworn on the lives of your children to your BS that you were telling the truth whilst lying?

*Would never do certain things sexually within your affair/affairs, that you felt would be over the top or too humiliating/devastating to your BS? 

*Trash-talking your BS behind his/her back ect...

*Cheating within the sanctity of your BS home/bed?

*Having sex with BS and AP in the same day, kissing BS after recently engaging in oral sex with AP?

*Choosing to convince your BS they have genuine mental problems in their suspicions rather than admit guilt? I.E. You'd rather have you BS medicated or committed for nonexistent issues than confess or would rather you're BS question their own sanity than you being truthful?
__________________________________

Now, if you had no boundaries to speak of within your affairs or no limit to the lengths you would go to conceal it from your BS, why do you believe this was in hindsight? And if you did have such boundaries, what do you believe enabled you to hurdle the boundary of fidelity and yet keep other boundaries in tact?

I've read a lot about the "fog" and "compartmentalization". I don't really buy into either. But, if you have experienced this "fog" or possess this ability of "compartmentalization" and believe these things to be very real. How far do you believe you could potentially utilize these tools to perpetrate things you thought yourself incapable of? Or what do you believe the limits are of the things you could do utilizing these tools?

Under the right circumstances do you believe you could use "fog" and "compartmentalization" to torture animals, molest children, commit rape, maim someone ect...?

My intent is not offend or insult anyone in this line of questioning/reasoning. I'm genuine in my desire to understand these things, but will understand if I do not get many replies.

I may do a follow up to this thread concerning my own experiences.

Thx in advance to any WS's who take the time to reply or BS's who reply by proxy or add to the thread with their own observations/experiences, it's greatly appreciated. Would love to hear from both sides and as many perspectives as possible.

Thx all!


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I *totally* believe in compartmentalization. My EW was a *master* at it.

She was able to do what she did with the OM and keep it separate 
from her home life with me and the kids.

Compartmentalization is just a big word that (to me) means ones
ability to lie to themselves to justify getting what they want. 
It's a sick version of selfishness and entitlement, all rolled into one, 
with the ability to convince themselves that it's okay, as long as nobody 
knows or finds out.

It's a characteristic that not every person is capable of. I know I'm not, as 
I'm too much of a realist and am honest about everything when it comes to my feelings.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The scary thing that psychological studies have shown over the last half century is that the most cruel and inhumane actions that most people think of as deviant, immoral, or sociopathic are actually quite common when the surrounding environment allows them to be exhibited without judgement or social repercussions.

I remember reading about a Yale study done in the 1950's (I think) where about 95% of the subjects inflicted what they thought was tortuous levels of electric shock pain on a helpless human when prompted to by a 'supervisor'. Over half of them did not even show any signs of emotional stress or discomfort.

And these were 'normal' people who would undoubtedly swear they would never do something so inhuman as to torture another human being. 

My point is that under normal circumstances, the vast majority of people would claim they would never cheat and they find it repulsive.

But in the right social environment and the right combination of stresses and problems in their relationship, the vast majority of people would probably cheat.

I think this is why most people who have had successful monogamous M's would tell you that they take WORK.

You cannot neglect them or fail to communicate feelings and issues that are ongoing.

If you allow these to fester, and then the environment for one or both spouses becomes filled with negative influences, then the possibility of infidelity explodes.

This is especially true since MOST humans are rationalizers of their choices, coming up with unending reasons why their choices are justified or not really bad even if they appear so.

None of this JUSTIFIES cheating or makes it acceptable.

Humans still have to be held morally accountable for their choices.

But I think we fool ourselves if we fail to recognize that cheaters are not some type of abnormal freaks, flawed and different from the 'majority' of faithful and honest 'normal' people.

The sad fact is that the worst of human behaviors lurk in ALMOST ALL of us if we do not guard against them and just blindly assume 'that would never be me'.


----------



## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Val said:


> *Choosing to convince your BS they have genuine mental problems in their suspicions rather than admit guilt? I.E. You'd rather have you BS medicated or committed for nonexistent issues than confess or would rather you're BS question their own sanity than you being truthful?


You ask very interesting questions and I am looking forward to hear brutal honesty from WS. The answer to the particular question above, I am sure, will trigger me hard but I really want to know the answer.


----------



## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> The scary thing that psychological studies have shown over the last half century is that the most cruel and inhumane actions that most people think of as deviant, immoral, or sociopathic are actually quite common when the surrounding environment allows them to be exhibited without judgement or social repercussions.
> 
> I remember reading about a Yale study done in the 1950's (I think) where about 95% of the subjects inflicted what they thought was tortuous levels of electric shock pain on a helpless human when prompted to by a 'supervisor'. Over half of them did not even show any signs of emotional stress or discomfort.


Very interesting and scary indeed. I would like to think I am not capable of being cruel and inhumane to others. But I also know the answer to the question: if I am forced to to choose between my children, my family, and my life or someone else's...I know what I will choose. As horrible as it sounds, I am being brutally honest. 

I guess, yes we all have that capability to cheat. It is not confined to those with mental disorders only. The difference between those who have done it and those who have not done it is: those who have not done it consciously choose not to place themselves in a situation where our innate capability to be selfish at the expense of others manifest. 

Just read thread after thread here. Discussing about problems in your sexual life or other marital problems with the opposite sex or someone you could potentially be sexually attracted to or be attracted to you? What makes you think that's fine and dandy? Why don't you stop them right there and tell them to talk about it with their spouse? Why don't you stop yourself and decide to talk about it with your spouse? Or get professional help if your spouse doesn't listen? I am baffled when I read how a spouse finds it funny or even flattered that another man makes a pass or touch his spouse in front of him. Or what could the real intention be by looking up your exes on facebook and contacting them? I think these are the steps, consciously or subconsciously, where the cheaters tempted their own fate. 

And then...when she drops her clothes and you have a raging hard-on, you claim that "it just happened." No, your genitals don't happen to just fall on each other. Again, just being brutally honest.

Edit to add: one circumstance that I have no idea what I would have done is if the marriage has been miserable for a long time, the WS has expressed desire to leave if things don't change and the BS threatened to kill themselves if WS leave them. It's like being a prison in a miserable marriage. I would like to think I would not allow him to manipulate me, but I also do not know whether I would be able to walk away and not be overwhelmed with guilt and regret if he did indeed kill himself.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Fog and compartmentalization are in line with cognitive dissonance. Humans can be very good at fooling themselves. It can be viewed as adaptive, if we didn't do it, we might never do anything.


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> The scary thing that psychological studies have shown over the last half century is that the most cruel and inhumane actions that most people think of as deviant, immoral, or sociopathic are actually quite common when the surrounding environment allows them to be exhibited without judgement or social repercussions.
> 
> I remember reading about a Yale study done in the 1950's (I think) where about 95% of the subjects inflicted what they thought was tortuous levels of electric shock pain on a helpless human when prompted to by a 'supervisor'. Over half of them did not even show any signs of emotional stress or discomfort.
> 
> ...


This is the key right here, to the difference between those that cheat, and those that remain faithful. Staying guarded, protecting yourself by keeping your boundaries up, not putting yourself in tempting situations, not seeking out the opposite sex for attention.. Realizing how affairs happen, and avoiding those scenarios to keep yourself and your family safe. I believe many that have affairs are also aware of this, they just choose at some point to drop those boundaries because it feels good. The decide they no longer want to guard against it, because they've built up enough resentment and justifications to make it okay now. The justificatoins (Everyone is doing it, he doesn't love me anymore, i deserve to be happy, he'd rather play video games/watch sports/fix the house/work on his car/etc.. than spend time with me..) are how the fog begins.. the soon to be wayward starts to lie to themselves, about how this is all acceptable behavior, normal thing that people do. I'm okay... (no, you're really not.. you're about to destroy people including yourself...)


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

My FWW was a master at compartmentalizing. Not just about hiding what she was doing, but also at rationalizing to herself that it was not a betrayal of our vows to each other. 

She has a desperate need to see herself as a 'good' person and she was definetly doing things that conflicted with that self image. So, in addition to lying to me, she was lying to herself. 

"Chat with an old friend about him thrusting his member inside of me? No, that's not cheating, it's not physical. it's only online. Oh, we only went out for drinks a couple times. It was with other friends and before the cheating. I'd never do anything physcial with him, he repulses me. Blah, blah, blah."

Firmly in an EA and well on the way to a PA and no self realization that what she was doing was wrong. After peeling back the layers and convincing her that what she was doing was wrong, then came the "you were not paying attention to me" and "you never indicated that you cared" crap. So it wasn't bad because I never said anything? UNTIL I FOUND OUT!

At some level I'm sure she knew what she was doing was wrong, but I'm also convinced she believed most of the lies she was feeding me. It's really amazing how an intelligent person can believe thier own drivel.


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Acoa said:


> My FWW was a master at compartmentalizing. Not just about hiding what she was doing, but also at rationalizing to herself that it was not a betrayal of our vows to each other.
> 
> She has a desperate need to see herself as a 'good' person and she was definetly doing things that conflicted with that self image. So, in addition to lying to me, she was lying to herself.
> 
> ...


Yea, this is how intelligent people cheat.. I'm looking at you Bill Clinton..


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

The Power of Chemicals- can someone have boundaries while in a tornado?

I'm not a WS but at one point I was a single two timing ho! <---- 

Example- When I was single and dating I went through a period where I was seeing two men at once (one was aware the other wasn't) - I was trying to decide which one I felt had a shot at a more serious relationship with. I remember the excitement of thinking I was _all that_ and the thrill of being scandalous and brazen with juggling two lovers. Stolen moments, phone calls etc.. all so silly looking back but it really had me flying high. 

I remember the butterflies, staying up all night, waiting around for the next contact and the highs and lows of the drama with trying to be a player. Now all these years later if I reflect back on that period I get the same jolt of adrenaline reflecting on that time. So it's really about my BRAIN making those connections and stimulating that excitement internally and less about the "men" -- I had always thought myself a person who wouldn't be so careless with the hearts of others but I went there.....< ----



I remember someone linking to the Wikipedia page on Limerance and one thing that stood out was this part------

-"At their most severe, intrusive limerent thoughts can occupy an individual's waking hours completely, resulting—like severe addiction—in significant or complete disruption of the limerent's normal interests and activities, including work and family. "

The key word is severe addiction- I think in Affairs you have people who are casting everything the believed to be true about themselves aside due to overwhelming excitement and infatuation. This does not excuse them at all- but it helps to understand how they can become strangers to you over night and willing to lose everything chasing that high.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

FWW never talked about her family me included, never took OM home, and minimized public exposure ( stay away from being recognized) .
_Posted via Mobile Device_getting close was never an option and when OM wanted more then FWW would distance her self from them. Going to the moves of a ball game was out of the question. Some OM wanted to go on on dates and even ask FWW to meet his family... FWW would have to remind OM " I'm married". FWWs affairs weren't very lengthy.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> The scary thing that psychological studies have shown over the last half century is that the most cruel and inhumane actions that most people think of as deviant, immoral, or sociopathic are actually quite common when the surrounding environment allows them to be exhibited without judgement or social repercussions.
> 
> I remember reading about a Yale study done in the 1950's (I think) where about 95% of the subjects inflicted what they thought was tortuous levels of electric shock pain on a helpless human when prompted to by a 'supervisor'. Over half of them did not even show any signs of emotional stress or discomfort.
> 
> ...


Fantastic break down D. I came to the realization quite early in life that we are not born good. Evil is definitely our nature and it does take work to change/curb our behaviors.
The best defense against infidelity is "KNOWING " that you have it in you. 

Starting there, you can take cautions to avoid acting out what you never want to become.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

My wife thought she kept things way compartmentalized, but if we look at the sex/love addiction model...that is not always reality. yes, some people who cheat are major sociopaths that just do not have a single conscious gene in their body...these are the guys that have two separate families who never knew about each other.
My wife thought she was suave and could get what she wanted, but it always didn't jibe well with the the APs because they weren't always so clinical...so she felt like she had to get a little more personal to keep them in the game...when before she tried to keep it clear cut. But cheating involved major boundary crossing, so why would it stop just with the affair? So when things escalate to personal exchanges, then emotions come into play...and then it's not so easy to cut out and move on. She was a wreck when she tried to quit on AP...and it took a coupe years for her to finally stop total contact. She also tried the same thing with another guy, but he was so far more manipulative than her, that he really got into her head...and she was willing to place herself in a very precarious situation in life because he had his meathooks in (not literally...online affair)...but she was ready to divorce me, and fly out across the country with a guy who was shady, had shady friends. So in my experience, especially with my wife who has very much a calculating personality and never leaves things to chance...when it comes to the affair fog...it just chips away at one;s resolve and integrity...and people really find themselves doing things they never would have imagined. My wife put a halt to it when she had a momentary epiphany, "Just what the heck am I doing?" moment that just rattled her...just so blinded in her sex obsession...that she truly went of the rails. If anyone truly thinks that they got it all compartmentalized, then they are in denial.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I did have boundaries. I know this may sound weird but even though I was a scum bag cheater I looked down at wayward men that developed feelings for the OW. To me that was a line that should never be crossed. Also, family, friends, neighbors, or pretty much anyone who knew my wife was off limits. Not because I was afraid they would tell. I just thought it would be even more disrespectful. I guess its kind like a criminal that claims to have an "honor code".

As much as I hate to say it I think if I didn't have those boundaries as twisted as they sound. My wife would not have forgiven me. Her primary concern was if I had feelings for anyone else.


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Dyokemm said:


> The scary thing that psychological studies have shown over the last half century is that the most cruel and inhumane actions that most people think of as deviant, immoral, or sociopathic are actually quite common when the surrounding environment allows them to be exhibited without judgement or social repercussions.
> 
> I remember reading about a Yale study done in the 1950's (I think) where about 95% of the subjects inflicted what they thought was tortuous levels of electric shock pain on a helpless human when prompted to by a 'supervisor'. Over half of them did not even show any signs of emotional stress or discomfort.
> 
> ...


One of the best posts ever!! I agree 100% Like someone else said I too know my desires at my core I am a selfish, me focused, evil person out for #1 and it takes alot of safeguarding to prevent that person from coming out.

I still think it's much harder for men to stay faithful than women, but hard for both none the less.


----------

