# Wife going overseas, Would you let her?



## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

my wife taking the kids and going to visit her parents over seas for almost 3 months. I'm freaking out for not being able to see my kids for that long. all her friends on facebook blog said that she shouldnt do that but her answer to them was " so he can think more about us and see how much I'm worth to him"

would you let your wife taking kids for that long? if she already bought the tickets, what would you do ?


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

How would you stop her? 

She's grown. She doesn't need permission. 

IF you think she is actually moving away and taking your children overseas....that is different. There are ways to prevent the children from going. 

But if you have a healthy marriage, why would it be a problem?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No I wouldn't and I would see a lawyer with regards to getting some kind of court order that prevents the kids from leaving the country, or the state for that matter. 

For now put the kids passport in a safedeposit box!


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ArabianKnight said:


> would you let your wife taking kids for that long? if she already bought the tickets, what would you do ?


No way not with that attitude.
I`d secure their passports and alert TSA that they may be taken out of country against your wishes.


----------



## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

SunnyT, its not about healthy marriage or not, I cant stay one day without my kids and she is taking them for 3 months but wont understand how much I miss them. she is like you need to get use to it.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Well she'll have to get used to not beable to find the kids passport!


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

My wife has gone to visit her family (In another country) and taken our kids. Her visits have been as long as 1 month, but usually were 2 weeks. We've never had it for 3 months. The amount of time was negotiated between her, me, and her family, so that's how we decided how much time she would be away.

Are you concerned that she won't come back? If it's just that you can't be away from your kids for a day, then I don't think the problem is with your wife, but if there is a concern that she may take your kids and not come back, then that is another story. I don't think childish antics like hiding the passports are the way to handle it, though.

I agree the facebook post is a bit of a concern the way it is stated.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There is nothing childish when it come to my kids and I would think the like wise with yours!

SCREW THAT!

IMHO this would all be unexceptable. If my wife left for 3 month I would consider it abandonment.


----------



## Suemolly (Jun 19, 2011)

As a husband, you have a right to tell your wife she can't leave for 3 months. 3 weeks is reasonable, but 3 months is rather long. So man up, and just tell her straight you won't have it that way. This is not about some equality thing and an adult woman being able to do as she pleases. Its about respect and how to behave as a partner in a marriage.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Is your wife from a different country than you are? If so, you need to understand that she MUST be able to visit her family and homeland as she feels she needs to, as long as that is financially doable for your family. If she moved to your country for you, she should be able to spend time in her country also.

And yes, she also should be able to expose her children to HER culture and their grandparents for longer than a few weeks - which is just jet lag anyway. It is very important for children to be exposed to both parents' cultures in those countries, rather than from afar only.

If you can't deal with being apart from your children, then you can go with them. Otherwise, well, you probably aren't meant to be in a marriage with a foreign woman.

If, however, your wife is from the same country, but her parents live abroad for whatever reason, that's different. But I'd like you to clarify. 

I'm a foreign wife. I live across the world from my family, friends, homeland, language. I live here because this is where my husband and his family are. But if I wanted to go home for a few months - with or without children - and my husband didn't want to let me, well let's just say I would think twice about coming back. Marrying outside one's culture is NOT a simple thing and there are sacrifices. The spouse living abroad makes 99% of those sacrifices. It may be time for you to step up and make one of your own.


----------



## Suemolly (Jun 19, 2011)

I am also a foreign wife. Left everything behind to be with my husband. When a woman is married, her priority is to her husband and kids. No question about it.


----------



## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

Omega what gives you the right to say you would take the kids and never come back if your husband does not agree with you to go overseas.
we both from different country but we have sam culture, i dont mind her going overseas and spend time, but 3 months is too long and she wont understand that since we go there every two years. and every two years we spend 3 weeks there. 
I cant take vacation for that long plus we cant afford it now. 

I never stopped her from visiting her parents and I really dont mind her doing so, but me a way from my kids 3 months they are both under 2 is too long. 

and by the way her friends from same country told her 3 months is too long. but she has a bad attitude when it comes to things she wants to do.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

the guy said:


> There is nothing childish when it come to my kids and I would think the like wise with yours!
> 
> SCREW THAT!
> 
> IMHO this would all be unexceptable. If my wife left for 3 month I would consider it abandonment.


Yes, childish, and very unlikely to have the results you think it is going to have. "Screw that" feels good when you say it, but leads into a lot of damage that may have repurcussions that were never planned. Do you have a foreign born spouse? Have you dealt with the things that a foreign born spouse has to deal with? or kids with grandparents and realtives in different countries? Or looked into what the rights of a foreign born spouse really are if negotiations break down the to the point where lawyers are consulted and divorce begun? "Screw that" is an attitude that can push much closer to that, and hiding the passports will not solve the problem in the long term. All it amounts to is trying to get the hammer in your own hand for the negotiations, and that's not going to last forever.

I think they can, and should be negotiating on the time his wife can be at her family's house. We've done that. I recognize a need for contact with family, and that level of need changes at different stages in life. That's a reality you have to deal with when spouses are from different countries.

It's not a matter of whether you think it would be abandonment. Nobody is going to care when it gets to that sticking point, and that includes the OP. There are legal definitions of abandonment if it came to children, and if it is to that point, the OP may need to look at that. He needs to decide what his boundaries are concerning his marriage here, and his wife is an equal partner in the negotiations on the situation. Negotiations with her are not guaranteed to be easy, but they need to be first before the "Screw that" goes forward.

There are a couple of concerns I had when reading before replying. The first is the facebook comment, but I also know how people are when they begin trying to look some way for friends. The other is the comment that he can't be away from his children even for a day. That makes me wonder if there is more from his side that we're not going to know in this thread.

There is a lot to be concerned about, and a lot to deal with, and things like hiding passports are not going to resolve any of them for the long term. In fact, they may make them worse.

*EDIT:* My wife and our kids had several visits to my wife's home country before they reached adulthood (Only 2 are adult, 1 is still at home). I couldn't always go with them. Our eldest even returned and went to college in her mother's country for 2 of her 4 years of college. It can work out. I never had the "Screw that" attitude, though.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't know what country you are in, but it should be the same most everywhere----go to the District atty.---Not Police---but D A, or their equivalent where ever you live---and ask what rights you have, and how you proceed to stop your wife---for what she is doing if you do not agree to let them go---is KIDNAPPING THEM


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Suemolly said:


> I am also a foreign wife. Left everything behind to be with my husband. When a woman is married, her priority is to her husband and kids. No question about it.


I absolutely agree with this and my husband is my first, second, third, fourth, etc priority. I have to go pretty far down the list to find another one. And since we met, I have never gone to visit my family. I haven't seen my father in years and years. BUT the point is that I SHOULD be allowed to do so if I need to.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

ArabianKnight said:


> Omega what gives you the right to say you would take the kids and never come back if your husband does not agree with you to go overseas.
> we both from different country but we have sam culture, i dont mind her going overseas and spend time, but 3 months is too long and she wont understand that since we go there every two years. and every two years we spend 3 weeks there.
> I cant take vacation for that long plus we cant afford it now.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't keep the kids. I never said I would. I said I would think twice about coming back. I don't have children. But I could not believe that a man LOVED me if he wouldn't let me see my family for more than a few weeks at a time, if that's what I needed. So far since I met my husband, I have not seen my family. Do I miss them? Yes!!!!! Like CRAZY. But I would rather be with my husband. However, if I were to want to see my family more than I want to stay with my husband, and he didn't allow me to go, I would feel betrayed. Part of the foreign spouse deal is you accept that they are making a HUGE sacrifice to live in your country. You should be able to make a huge sacrifice yourself, once in a while, don't you think?

How far away is her country? If it's REALLY far, like mine, 2-4 weeks isn't enough. The first 10 days is just jet lag. Then the next week is seeing relatives, then before you know it you're going shopping for the stuff you want to take back home, packing, and going home. When do the kids get to FORM RELATIONSHIPS with cousins, practice the language, visit local attractions, go on trips with the grandparents, etc etc? These things are so valuable. At their age, that may not be as important - I didn't realize they were so young - but it is still important that they be given the chance to form relationships with their grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles, etc., IN the home country. You can't be from the same culture if you're from two different countries - she will always be from the culture of where she's from (even if that's an immigrant-in-that-country culture, it's still NOT the same as your culture). 

I wasn't responding to her attitude , plenty of others have done that, but to the incredibly difficult position that foreign wives are often put into. I hope you can understand that a little bit.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

omega said:


> I absolutely agree with this and my husband is my first, second, third, fourth, etc priority. I have to go pretty far down the list to find another one. And since we met, I have never gone to visit my family. I haven't seen my father in years and years. *BUT the point is that I SHOULD be allowed to do so if I need to.*


:iagree: *THIS* is the #1 thing I would like to stress in this situation. A loving husband ABSOLUTELY should make sure this is possible. I won't tell you you should go - that's up to you and you know your situation better than I. But in cases like when my wife's father was diagnosed with stomach cancer, she NEEEDED to go see her father and family while he was still alive. There are times when you go because you want to (depends on your situation, I know), and there are times when you absolutely need to. There are times when you need to phone your family - I encourage my wife to call her sisters for example. Foreign born spouses did not stop being who they are when they married us and moved away from their country and family with us. There are needs in marriages with foreign born spouses that people who have not been there just will not understand.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Wow! Omega! I'm SO GLAD you're in this thread. It seems there are more cross-pond marriages than I thought represented on this board. You are expressing so many things that my wife and I have had conversations about through our years together. You should start a thread specifically about marriages with foreign born spouses and what they need, and how the kids need contact with their cultures and identities, etc. I think there is a lot to be said here.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a difference between an adult going to visit their family in another country and a person taking two very young children to spend 3 months away from their father. 

As a parent I would not have allowed my husband to take small children away for months. It's not appropriate at all. If the grand parents want to see the children for an extended period, perhaps they could come visit the children in their own home.

There is a real problem with one spouse taking children to their native country and never returning. It's called kidnapping. It happens all the time. I know a young lady who has been concerned about her husband's decision to visit with family in another country for a few months... taking their two boys with him. She has decided that she will only allow him to take one of their sons. I think they are having marital problems and is afraid that he has no intention of returning.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> Wow! Omega! I'm SO GLAD you're in this thread. It seems there are more cross-pond marriages than I thought represented on this board. You are expressing so many things that my wife and I have had conversations about through our years together. You should start a thread specifically about marriages with foreign born spouses and what they need, and how the kids need contact with their cultures and identities, etc. I think there is a lot to be said here.


Thanks shy_guy, there are many issues indeed... I belong to a specific 'support' group in my area - and this particular issue has come up many times. Usually the husband feels that an extended trip home for the wife and children is something being "done to him" and isn't able to see that it's not about him at all - it's about the wife's relationship with her family and homeland, and with enabling children to develop a real, not just nominal, relationship with them also. They feel that they are being abandoned, or that the wife is choosing home over him, or that she is trying to assert her nationality over his, or that she is trying to get the children on board with her to convince him to move the whole family to her country. Sometimes they think it has to do with the in laws as well.

I'm not going to get into a discussion of 'kidnapping,' as I think that is a very extreme situation. What we are talking about is a woman who wants to see her parents and family, and wants her children to see them too and experience her culture. Which is proper, in my opinion. 

If 3 months is too long is a discussion that each couple has to have amongst themselves. Asking on a forum 'how long is too long?' when most of the forum members are not foreign spouses and don't really know what is involved in being a foreign spouse is probably not the best way to find an answer. 

But I can tell you, Arabian Knight, that if you are being honest that your time-limit on being apart from your children is actually "less than one day" then you are headed for some serious problems.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

EleGirl, I hope my posts didn't sound like I was just agreeing with the situation. I do think it is something they should work out. There are situations (such as military) where separation in families for expended periods of time happens. Situations with foreign born spouses are just different from other families and may very well need different boundaries for amount of time for a visit. 

I'm not just saying let her go have her way. I'm advising against thinking that just hiding passports is going to solve the problem. If it comes to separation or divorce, the foreign born spouse also has rights where the children are concerned, so the old thoughts about "They're in my country so by golly I'm going to get the kids" are not going to play out the way some think, either. There are going to be tense moments in negotiations even for trips home, I'm sure. My words are saying to work it out at the appropriate level and don't go into negotiations with the spouse thinking you have the hammer in your hand because she is in your country.

I fully understand what Omega is talking about, too. My wife's country is in Asia (I still will not say which Asian country in the public forum - past my anonymity boundary here). 2 weeks is an absolute minimum, and a month is really more reasonable when you're talking about visit like that. Another reason for this that Omega didn't mention is that it's expensive to make those visits so you can't make them as often as most people think. We tended to make fewer visits and make them longer when it was negotiated in our family. But both people have to consider the needs both of the foreign born spouse, and of their kids in these situations. When I say "Both," I mean wife AND husband. I'm not letting either one off the hook here.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> 2 weeks is an absolute minimum, and a month is really more reasonable when you're talking about visit like that. Another reason for this is that it's expensive to make those visits so you can't make them as often as most people think. We tended to make fewer visits and make them longer when it was negotiated in our family. But both people have to consider the needs both of the foreign born spouse, and of their kids in these situations. When I say "Both," I mean wife AND husband. I'm not letting either one off the hook here.


Personally, if this were my husband and I, I would not go for 3 months (I would miss him way too much) but if I were going to go, I think 2 months is a realistic period of time for a major trip like that. Anything under 1 month, I just wouldn't bother - not worth the cost of flying - but 2 months would give me the time to actually travel domestically to see friends and family (my whole family is not located in one place - traveling to see them and staying with them and dealing with their schedules and having enough time to be flexible for them as well takes time), deal with any loose-end bureaucratic issues, relax, forget about living in a foreign country for a while, just be myself around people like me for a while. Maybe it sounds frivolous to most people - maybe the idea is that 'once you make the decision to marry someone from another country, you have to give up your entire previous identity - and maybe those ideas are part of why I've never gone home - but I don't think it would be worth going home to spend a few weeks jet lagged and running around like crazy just to come home and be jet lagged some more and exhausted and have so many things I didn't have time to do. I'd rather just not go at all. 

If you can't deal with the kids being gone for so long, how about working out a compromise, like she goes with the kids, then after a month you go and visit them for the 2 weeks or whatever you can get off work, and take the kids home with you when you leave, and then she comes home after the 3 months is up?


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I think everyone is missing the point. It's not that AK doesn't want his wife to see her family. It's not that AK doesn't want his wife's family to see the kids. It's that she intends to take them for three months and doesn't give a damn what AK thinks. Folks, that is kidnapping any way you slice it.

AK, take the kids passports and tell your wife that she is not allowed to take the children. Given what she has said I would not allow her to take them at all without you. If she wants to go, let her. If she takes the kids you are taking a very large risk.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

omega said:


> Personally, if this were my husband and I, I would not go for 3 months (I would miss him way too much) but if I were going to go, I think 2 months is a realistic period of time for a major trip like that. Anything under 1 month, I just wouldn't bother - not worth the cost of flying - but 2 months would give me the time to actually travel domestically to see friends and family (my whole family is not located in one place - traveling to see them and staying with them and dealing with their schedules and having enough time to be flexible for them as well takes time), deal with any loose-end bureaucratic issues, relax, forget about living in a foreign country for a while, just be myself around people like me for a while. Maybe it sounds frivolous to most people - maybe the idea is that 'once you make the decision to marry someone from another country, you have to give up your entire previous identity - and maybe those ideas are part of why I've never gone home - but I don't think it would be worth going home to spend a few weeks jet lagged and running around like crazy just to come home and be jet lagged some more and exhausted and have so many things I didn't have time to do. I'd rather just not go at all.
> 
> If you can't deal with the kids being gone for so long, how about working out a compromise, like she goes with the kids, then after a month you go and visit them for the 2 weeks or whatever you can get off work, and take the kids home with you when you leave, and then she comes home after the 3 months is up?


Did you read what she wrote? It doesn't sound like she cares what he thinks or will compromise. How about this compromise. She doesn't take the kids until her husband can go with them?


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Did you read what she wrote? It doesn't sound like she cares what he thinks or will compromise. How about this compromise. She doesn't take the kids until her husband can go with them?


Yes, I read it. We can't speculate on what she thinks or cares about. 

I don't have children and so my feelings on the children side of things are not as strong. But I understand that parents do feel strongly about introducing their children to their grandparents and relatives. If I understand correctly, she visits her family for 3 weeks at a time (that is an extremely short visit for a foreign spouse - we need to be clear about that) every TWO YEARS but the children are TWO YEARS old. So the children either didn't exist yet the last time she was there, or they were newborns. So this could be their first trip. I don't know - the OP is giving almost no information - but it sounds like she needs more time with her family. 

Is she close to her family? Does she miss them? Does she have friends back home that she wants to see? Is it difficult for her parents to travel to your country for health or financial reasons? SHE is the one who left - she can't expect them to travel to see her - that's not how it works. If I had a penny for every time I tried to woo a friend or relative to come visit me here, I'd be rich - but the only one who has done it is my mother. No one else. Traveling is disruptive, expensive, and for some people intimidating and scary. SHE has to go if she wants to see them and if she wants any kind of relationship to develop between her children and her family.

Obviously we're not going to agree on this. Those posters who want to see this as an international kidnapping (ludicrous in my opinion) will never see this the way I do, as a fellow foreign wife. I have no interest in trying to convince anyone but I thought I might get through to ArabianKnight that this is NOT about HIM. This is about the woman he LOVES and her wanting her children to know her family and homeland. Take it or leave it....


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Beowulf, I understand what was said in the original post, but when reading these things, I also understand that only one position is ever represented in these questions. I get a hint that gives me a red flag later when he says he can't be away from his kids even for one day. It just sounds like there is more going on than the OP is telling us about. Taking the passports or trying to develop a position of blackmail is analagous to taking the kids without agreement IMO. That is not a negotiated position either, and it is one that is very unlikely to stand should push come to shove ... and an action like that is likely to push and get a shove. 

In their situation, there is a very high likelihood that they are going to HAVE to negotiate terms where kids can visit family sometimes, and a comment including "even for a day" indicates at least some unwillingness to negotiate reasonably with her on this. If this is the case, then this sort of position, or at least the attitude behind it is likely to get reactions, and the facebook post we are given may very well be such a reaction. I think it is something they need to work out. All you have to do is put yourself in the foreign born spouse's position to realize what your recommended course of action is most likely to lead to ... and with legalities involved with that, he may be going much longer without seeing one or both of his kids in that case.


I'll add one more thing to Omega's last post about travelling: Most likely, parents, brothers, sisters, etc. of the foreign born spouse also have to work, and have just as much difficulty coming to the country into which the foreign born spouse has immigrated. It is just as much a matter of finances as of difficulty or culture. Often, the only practical type of visit if you want to see more than one or two of them is for the one who emigrated (with an e) to go back to country of origin where everyone is still. That is much more economical because of the number of people who would have to travel if for no other reason.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> I was under the impression that the OP thinks there is at least some chance that his wife may not bring the children back. If that's not the case, then he should reconsider. Like I said before, a summer in another country could be a great opportunity for the kids, especially if it means they get to spend time with family they rarely see.
> 
> I do understand that 3 months is a long time to be away from your children, though. I liked the idea someone mentioned about negotiating to wait to take the kids when OP is able to go along, too. They could also negotiate a shorter visit this time if the kids do go (maybe 6 weeks instead).
> 
> ...


Now, I think we're beginning to talk a little more reasonably. This is going the right direction, but let me push this farther with you (since I've already practically hijacked the thread  ).

If this is "risk that's too great to be negotiated," then what? Is there no risk presented to his wife if he then decides to do something like hide the passports? What reasonable course of action is open to her in this case?


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

3leafclover said:


> I was under the impression that the OP thinks there is at least some chance that his wife may not bring the children back.


I think that's really stretching what he said. He posted three times in this thread and none of them even remotely insinuated that he was worried about her kidnapping the children or not bringing them back! He sounds much more concerned about the length of time he's going to be separated from the children during their trip, because he's going to miss them. Of course he will miss his children! It would be extremely weird if he didn't. I bet his wife's parents miss _their child_ too! And maybe even their grandchildren, for all I know. Which I suppose is why she wants to travel there.

He's not the only person missing a child in this particular scenario, is what I'm getting at. And if she goes without the children, she'll miss her children. The only perfect solution is for them all to go together, but he's not able to do that for work reasons, which is totally understandable. So, someone is going to have to suck it up and deal. My opinion is that the only practical solution to this problem is for ArabianKnight to be patient and learn how to use Skype. (although if they can work out a compromise, that would be a healthy step.)


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

That is why I said that they should wait until the OP can accompany them. However her comment "so he can think more about us and see how much I'm worth to him" to me suggests there is an underlying marital issue here. And "she has a bad attitude when it comes to things she wants to do" suggests to me that she's going to do what she wants regardless of his feelings. If those two statement are accurate then I doubt any type of negotiation will be effective. Further the OPs statement "wont understand how much I miss them" tells me he has addressed the problem and it was not resolved. So, if he has addressed the problem and there is an underlying issue and her attitude seems to suggest that she is going to do what she wants against his wishes...how do you suggest the OP proceed? My thought is that if he simply does not allow her to impose her will maybe she will see that brute force on her part is not going to solve anything.


----------



## itgetsbetter (Mar 1, 2012)

I would not expect my husband to allow me to take my children and myself - without him - to another country for 3 months. That is absurd. 

Especially with children so young...that is not emotionally healthy for the children or the family as a whole because they do not understand time, distance, "why Daddy went away..." As someone who has an extensive history of working with children, I speak with absolute confidence. Children of that age are only capable of understanding so much...they will have a huge emotional reaction to the sudden loss of one parent (even with phone calls) for such a long period of time. Their sense of time and place is nothing like yours and mine. 

OP is not unreasonable either that he doesn't want to spend a day away from his children. On the contrary, that is admirable.

Especially at this age, any trips like these should be taken as a family. That is a very reasonable standpoint taken by the OP.

If my husband thought he was taking my 2 year old child away for 3 months to a foreign country, he'd find himself quite mistaken.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Maybe he should just file for divorce, which could include the legal denial of taking your children out of the state, let alone the country.

Or... don't give her any money. How can she go if he isn't paying? 

Or... forbid it, and stamp your foot. 

I mean really, how do you not "allow" a grown up to do something? Either you have agreements with your loving spouse how things work, or you don't. If you don't...then what's the purpose of being that person's spouse?


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't want to spend forever on this thread, but reading the thread again, I think so many of you just do not have enough frame of reference to realize what you are saying or what you are advising. There is a negotiation to happen here, but the reason I keep objecting is that I see people continuing to advise the OP how to get the hammer in his hand instead of what should be done in this situation. There are 3 foreign born spouses that have been on this thread thus far. They seem to be in different stages in their marriages, but these three are the ones I think have a real grasp on what is being discussed here. I have a foreign born spouse and we have 3 kids together. 2 of ours are now adult. I will not pretend to represent my wife on this thread, but I think I have enough understanding of her that we have been able to successfully negotiate trips with our kids to my wife's country to visit her family.

Before I go further, I have to ask OP: Why are you here on this thread? I hope you can give an honest answer at least to yourself on that question. Are you here looking for a way of negotiating a fair deal with your wife on this? Are you here looking for ideas to get the hammer in your hand for negotiations? Are you here looking for validation for your position? If it's the latter two, you've found that in some of the posts on here this far, and in what you've read from her friends on facebook. If you're looking for what someone thinks is fair, I think a few have offered some things, but how do you get there?

First, I see two positions from which the two parties are starting negotiations. Both positions seem to be stated in this post:



ArabianKnight said:


> SunnyT, its not about healthy marriage or not, *I cant stay one day without my kids* and she is taking them for 3 months *but wont understand how much I miss them.* she is like you need to get use to it.


You don't want them to be gone for a day. She wants them to be gone for (almost) 3 months. So how often do agreements end up at either starting negotiation position? You state you will miss them, but what have you considered about your wife's position? or your kids' positions as they grow? Especially, think of your kids.

My kids identify very strongly with the part of their racial and cultural background that their mother has provided. This is only right. They do the same with the racial and cultural background I have provided. They identify with their aunts, uncles, and cousins in Asia (their Asian grandparents are now deceased). When their grandparents died, and when one of their cousins died, they cried real tears as they held me. That's the level of love they have for that part of their family. Is this not right?

My eldest identified strongly enough that she wanted to go to college in her mother's country. We provided her that opportunity. Do you want your kids to have the breadth of background that these types of things provide? If so, how will you provide that to them? Are your wife's trips not a big part of broadening their background like this?

So on to concerns. If you want your kids to have that background, you cannot have a situation where you cannot be separated even for a day. You're going to have to negotiate this and make it work in some form are you not?

Now, the concern from the other side:




ArabianKnight said:


> my wife taking the kids and going to visit her parents over seas for almost 3 months. I'm freaking out for not being able to see my kids for that long. all her friends on facebook blog said that she shouldnt do that but her answer to them was " *so he can think more about us and see how much I'm worth to him*"
> 
> would you let your wife taking kids for that long? if she already bought the tickets, what would you do ?


First of all, why are you depending on her friends to negotiate this for you? Why are YOU putting any stock in what they say? Should you be?

Second, why would she make a comment about you seeing how much she's worth to you? Does she doubt her value in your eyes? Why would she? This is a question you may have to do some introspection on before you can answer. If she doubt her value in your eyes, might part of the solution be for you to begin reaffirming her value in your eyes?

I don't see in what you posted any indication that she plans to leave. In fact, she wouldn't care about elevating her status in your eyes if she planned to leave. Would you agree with this? Or might she be saying something else? What other issues are you having that may be making this tense?

Now think from your wife's point of view: When she came to your country, did her world expand? or shrink? Don't think from your point of view - think what your wife is seeing and feeling. How was her process of culture shock and adjustment? How many friends has she made? How big a part of her world are these friends? What cultural support does she have? Is it fair to say she is more dependent on you and what you provide for her emotionally and physically than it would have been if you lived in her country?

On to your kids, if her world has shrunk, and if she is more dependent on you, then how big a part of her world are the kids? It's almost hard to ask this next question, but might the kids be even a bigger part of her identity since she is separated from the rest of her family than they might be if you lived in her country?

Get your wife's perspective on this, then think of what several posters here have suggested you do. What if you actually carry through on taking the kids' passport, or take some action like this that denies her the opportunity to take the kids back to her country at all. Put yourself in her position and imagine that being done to you. Would you build any resentment over this? How would that change your opinion of your spouse? How would that change your attitude toward your spouse? Especially if you now felt trapped in his country due to him using the kids like that.

Before you decide you know the answers about resentment and the effect it will have on you, look on this board at other threads about resentment. Don't skip the "Sex in Marriage" board when you're looking for those threads. Do you think this is where it will end up? Is this the direction you want to go? What's more, if that resentment is something she doesn't want to live with, is it possible she may divorce you? If so, what position will that put you in with your kids? Might you be missing them much more than 3 months? In most western countries, mothers are considered very carefully when custody arrangements are made. What is the liklihood that those custody arrangements might involve allowing her to visit her mother's country? 

This is the direction I am thinking when I am making the posts I am in this thread. Many on here do not have the experience of having a foreign born spouse, and unfortunately, not having that experience, they are not going to have the background that experience provides. The foreign born spouses on here should be a very valuable resource on explaining what it is like to be in their position. If you haven't gotten that understanding, you should listen to them carefully. I'm sure you recognize that your wife has all the feelings and mental facilities of any other lady, and will fight for her kids the same way any other lady will. Unfortunately, stereotypes exist in the minds of many westerners about "foreign born" spouses. Hopefully, they don't exist in the minds of people on this board, but look at how many responses you got that never considered that your wife may have any reaction if you just confiscated the kids' passports.

All of this to say, I think you are going to have to negotiate this with your wife. I think you're going to have to look honestly at your marital situation, and you are going to have to consider your wife's position and your kids' position fairly - not based on how long you feel you can be separated. It sounds like you may have some marital work to do as well. That's what the point of my posts have been. I would recommend you think about it carefully before doing something like hiding passports. If you're headed for divorce already, then do what you will, but if that's not in your plans, you should think what the reaction will be to that. One thing that is guaranteed is that the reaction won't be to just silently submit and never bring it up again.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> That is why I said that they should wait until the OP can accompany them. However her comment "so he can think more about us and see how much I'm worth to him" to me suggests there is an underlying marital issue here. And "she has a bad attitude when it comes to things she wants to do" suggests to me that she's going to do what she wants regardless of his feelings. If those two statement are accurate then I doubt any type of negotiation will be effective. Further the OPs statement "wont understand how much I miss them" tells me he has addressed the problem and it was not resolved. So, if he has addressed the problem and there is an underlying issue and her attitude seems to suggest that she is going to do what she wants against his wishes...how do you suggest the OP proceed? My thought is that if he simply does not allow her to impose her will maybe she will see that brute force on her part is not going to solve anything.


I think I already answered that in the previous post. If I had seen this before I started on that, I would have addressed at least parts of it specifically to you. I think only the OP knows at this point what came first, but I took his wife's facebook post to be a reaction to his stance.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> Having re-read through OP's replies, it's increasingly clear that this really might not be as serious an issue as I was thinking (okay, so yeah, I made some assumptions )
> 
> But just for the heck of it, I'm gonna bite anyway. If the risk was too great for the OP to compromise, hiding the children's (not the wife's) passports would be a temporary measure to ensure the children aren't taken out of country. A parent is not legally allowed to take a child out of the country without the other parent's permission anyway (so passport or no passport should make no difference). In fact, usually they are stopped and asked for a notarized letter from the other parent even with the child's passport in hand. But since some can slip through the cracks, hiding the children's passports is just an extra security measure. It's not a longterm fix, and not something I would recommend unless truly afraid your children will not be returned. Somebody worried enough to do this would probably already be on the brink of separation/divorce.
> 
> ...


When did the practice start of requiring a notarized letter from the other parent to take kids out of country? I have never provided that when my wife travelled with our kids. 

I think my point was that doing something like hiding passports is something that their relationship is likely to never recover from. If he wants to take that course of action, he should be sure he is ready for it. The one thing I am certain of is that the reaction is not going to be a quiet submission to that action.


----------



## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

ArabianKnight said:


> my wife taking the kids and going to visit her parents over seas for almost 3 months. I'm freaking out for not being able to see my kids for that long. all her friends on facebook blog said that she shouldnt do that but her answer to them was " so he can think more about us and see how much I'm worth to him"
> 
> would you let your wife taking kids for that long? if she already bought the tickets, what would you do ?



She really posted that on facebook? Why do people air their laundry like that.

I don't know your situation, obviously there are issue. But hard to comment with out more detail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> CBP Info Center
> 
> I do see your point. If I were the wife, hiding the passports could definitely be a nail in the coffin of the relationship.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the CBP link. Since one of our 3 is still at home, it's possible we could have run into this. We have never run into that before, but the way it reads, it may be fairly new ... and it says they may not ask.

I agree that either position, if held without any flexibility are probably unreasonable. 3 months may be a one-time deal, but that should be part of what is decided and agreed upon. We don't really have any indication of what kinds of negotiations, if any, were attempted.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> I think I already answered that in the previous post. If I had seen this before I started on that, I would have addressed at least parts of it specifically to you. I think only the OP knows at this point what came first, but I took his wife's facebook post to be a reaction to his stance.


Maybe I'm reading too much into the OPs comments but I took it to mean that he tried to negotiate and she said "tough luck I'm doing it anyway."

While I respect your perspective I think you give too much credence to the OPs wife and not enough to the OP and the children. I think we will agree that three months is far too long for the children to be away from their father. I also think we'll agree that the OP has a right to be concerned about being away from his children. Can we also agree that if he feels there is a chance that she may not return with his children he has a right to stop her from taking them? Can we also agree that if she drop dead insists on going for three months he has every right to step in and block it since she is basically stepping on him and not taking his (or her children's) feelings into consideration?

My perspective is that parents love their children regardless what country they are living in or what culture they are from. In my opinion for this man to be denied access to his children is unconscionable. She should wait to travel until they can do so as a family. If she cannot wait then she is being selfish and should not be allowed to take them. I will agree that if she is feeling cut off or undervalued that their marriage needs work. And that suggests to me even more strongly that they stay together and work on their relationship rather than allow her to take off with the children to another country.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Maybe I'm reading too much into the OPs comments but I took it to mean that he tried to negotiate and she said "tough luck I'm doing it anyway."
> 
> While I respect your perspective I think you give too much credence to the OPs wife and not enough to the OP and the children. I think we will agree that three months is far too long for the children to be away from their father. I also think we'll agree that the OP has a right to be concerned about being away from his children. Can we also agree that if he feels there is a chance that she may not return with his children he has a right to stop her from taking them? Can we also agree that if she drop dead insists on going for three months he has every right to step in and block it since she is basically stepping on him and not taking his (or her children's) feelings into consideration?
> 
> My perspective is that parents love their children regardless what country they are living in or what culture they are from. In my opinion for this man to be denied access to his children is unconscionable. She should wait to travel until they can do so as a family. If she cannot wait then she is being selfish and should not be allowed to take them. I will agree that if she is feeling cut off or undervalued that their marriage needs work. And that suggests to me even more strongly that they stay together and work on their relationship rather than allow her to take off with the children to another country.


I don't think we're so far off from each other. There is no doubt I represented what I think his wife's position to be much stronger than his. I figured he could represent his position, but every time I get into one of these, I start thinking how I'm seeing one side of the issue, and I start trying really hard to see the other. When I read the other posts that were coming in at first, everyone seemed to be just taking his side and giving advice that I didn't even think would work out well for him ... they certainly weren't considering what his wife's position might be in this.

If it were me, I would be more likely to try to get off work to accompany her on at least part of it if she just insisted that it had to be 3 months, or at least I would if I still wanted to be married to her in another year. That would be part of what I would be trying to negotiate.

I'm not arguing that he should be cut off from his children. I'm trying to look at what his current options are (as I understand them) and assuming that he still wants to be married. I don't think options that lead to divorce are going to be ones where he gets to see his children as much as he wants.

*EDIT:* I have to bow out of the conversation at this point. I'm sinking more time than I have into it. I wish you the best.


----------



## zaliblue (Apr 26, 2011)

Ok, first of all, if I was you, I would never let her take my kids out of the country for three months! HOWEVER, reading some of the others' comments about not allowing your wife to leave are ridiculous. She is a grown woman and can do what she wants. It just irks me to hear words like "allowed" when speaking about husband/wife relationships....Why don't you want to go with her? She does have a right to see her family.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You should try to work something out with your wife, before you get into any actions, that are gonna cause a rift in your mge----Wife should be able to go for a reasonable length of time---3 months, seems awful long for her to want to be away---If she is making a long trip, and she only goes once in a long while, 6 weeks, 8 weeks at the outset---should be enuff---longer than that I would ask her why she needs to be away 12 weeks---as to the kids---2 to 3 weeks, is the longest you should allow---if you were to agree to let them go.

Also what of the country she is going to---Is it safe---right now there are a lot of hot spots, all over the world---is she taking them into harms way---and any country that has conflicts/problems----is a possible harms way situation.


----------



## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

Thank you All

1- Wife sometimes I feel is wreckless in her thinking, she is stay homemom and I pay for her college, she is always been a dependent person. 

2- Not sure If she is thinking going there and not coming back home, and I dont think her parents will allow her to take the kids from me ( i spoke to her older brother and he is like I wouldnt allow this to myself) she has very nice understanding parents and her mother is very nice person that support me.

3- Hiding a passport without having 100% prove she not coming back is childish and does not represent a relationship between me and her. 

4- I asked her if it possible she leave for 6 weeks then I join her for another 3 weeks she said no thats too short. she wants to go alone for 2 months and join her for two weeks or three.

5- the reason I worry also about kids is you know how the driving overseas, in her country there is no driving safety or big cars, all are small mini cars. and sometimes I feel she is careless therefore I worried about the kids, she never showed any carelessness toward the kids here, but Father's feeling always worry about his kids. 

6- If we didnt have kids, I dont mind her visiting her parents yearly for 6 months and even 11 months a year.

7- I never visited my home country for more than a month, but may be that different because my parents live in the same city where I work. 

8- her long vacation according to her is to take a break from us and relax, since we have up and downs like other couples, may be my wife has more up and downs.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Why don't you propose this---she goes w/out kids for 1st 9 weeks, you bring kids over and you all stay with her parents for the last 3 weeks


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

omega said:


> Is your wife from a different country than you are? If so, you need to understand that she MUST be able to visit her family and homeland as she feels she needs to, as long as that is financially doable for your family. If she moved to your country for you, she should be able to spend time in her country also.
> 
> And yes, she also should be able to expose her children to HER culture and their grandparents for longer than a few weeks - which is just jet lag anyway. It is very important for children to be exposed to both parents' cultures in those countries, rather than from afar only.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but this is absolute crap. A spouses primary responsibility is to their spouse. That is what a marriage is about. And 3 months away for a "visit" is ridiculous. I would be having none of this. And the FB remark would be cause for significant words.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

KanDo said:


> Sorry, but this is absolute crap. A spouses primary responsibility is to their spouse. That is what a marriage is about. And 3 months away for a "visit" is ridiculous. I would be having none of this. And the FB remark would be cause for significant words.


Which part are you finding to be crap? And what in your background leads you to respond that this is absolute crap?


----------



## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

My family lives in the US. My grandparents lived in another country. My mom missed them all the time. Once every three years, we'd go spend a summer there for 2.5-3 months (my mom, me, and siblings; my dad chose to stay and work). Once we were in high school, sometimes, my mom would take shorter trips but more frequently, like once a year for 6 weeks. It was definitely a good thing, overall. It allowed my parents a sense of space from each other which strengthened and revitalized their marriage and it allowed my siblings and I a chance to explore the other culture and it allowed my mom to spend time with her family. We talked to him every day and wrote him letters every week. He missed us a lot and always had lots of presents for us, but, surprisingly it was like a de-stress period for my parents. 3 months is really not as long as it sounds.

Try and compromise with her and say that you can go for a little while, but not three months. Maybe she can go for two months instead of three? Let her and the kids go for longer than you if she wants to. Let her know that this is you being supportive, not mean. And talk to her and the kids every day on Skype so you don't drift apart during her time there and you can still see your kids.

Maybe she is just afraid and getting stubborn and willful because of it. Try talking to her about it with a willingness to compromise your wishes, too. Maybe she's just being a little melodramatic because you two are having issues. If her family is being supportive and won't let the kids be separated from you, then, you don't have anything to really worry about.

To those who are panicking. This is in no way kidnapping. This is AK's wife trying to explain how serious she is about her needs. She's not saying he can never see the kids again or stealing them from their home; she's being open about this.



ArabianKnight said:


> Omega what gives you the right to say you would take the kids and never come back if your husband does not agree with you to go overseas.
> we both from different country but we have sam culture, i dont mind her going overseas and spend time, but 3 months is too long and she wont understand that since we go there every two years. and every two years we spend 3 weeks there.
> I cant take vacation for that long plus we cant afford it now.
> 
> ...


----------

