# It’s Official: Subservient Men Get Less Sex



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

*Desperate housewives: Bossy women 'have less sex than those who make joint decisions with their husband.'.
*
Desperate housewives: Bossy women 'have less sex' | Mail Online


If you want more sex you gotta lead. I've always been a leader and "sex" was available for me just about everyday of the 4 decades I was with my stbxw. Leading means taking risks. Leading means finding out what others want to do and incorporating their needs in the plans. And sometimes those plans will fail so you need not to be scared of making mistakes and failing. You need the confidence and self-belief that you can rectify failures and overcome obstacles. For that you need imagination and you need to be creative, a creative problem solver. Leading means taking care of people when they’re down and motivating them to get back up again.

Don’t let your wife dominate you. Unless of course you like to be dominated, makes my skin crawl. Become a leader, get more sex.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Unfortunately some women are just bossy and want to lead you with a firm grip on your nuts. You can't lead them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If one partner is willing to escalate the level of "crazy" beyond that which their partner is willing, the crazy partner gets to be in charge. Somebody has to remain sane and be an adult. That doesn't exactly mean they are subservient.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sanity said:


> Unfortunately some women are just bossy and want to lead you with a firm grip on your nuts. You can't lead them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, but you have the choice of being with them or not. It just depends on what you are willing to settle on.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If one partner is willing to escalate the level of "crazy" beyond that which their partner is willing, the crazy partner gets to be in charge. Somebody has to remain sane and be an adult. That doesn't exactly mean they are subservient.


Why on earth would you let a crazy person be in charge of you or anything else?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sanity said:


> Unfortunately some women are just bossy and want to lead you with a firm grip on your nuts. You can't lead them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes there are literally power struggles in marriages. Shouldn’t be, but there are so it’s pointless denying it. The thing is to recognise and accept them for what they are. If you lose that power struggle then in my mind you may just as well give up on being a man in the marriage. Why? Because your wife will never respect you again and without the respect of his wife a man has nothing and is totally and utterly open to ridicule and public humiliation.

And you most certainly cannot lead a woman who has no respect for you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Why on earth would you let a crazy person be in charge of you or anything else?


When men leave women the instant a little craziness appears, it will be the end of civilization.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Unfortunately, the study author thinks this is a good thing, because then women can be stronger then men, dictate the sexual frequency, all in the name of protecting women's rights. 

Yet another example of feminist extremists that wish for the dominant position, but don't really understand exactly what they are wishing for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

From this situation ...



unbelievable said:


> If one partner is willing to escalate the level of "crazy" beyond that which their partner is willing, the crazy partner gets to be in charge. Somebody has to remain sane and be an adult. That doesn't exactly mean they are subservient.


to this situation .....



unbelievable said:


> When men leave women the instant a little craziness appears, it will be the end of civilization.


And all in 35 minutes! Talk about moving goal posts.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Unfortunately, the study author thinks this is a good thing, because then women can be stronger then men, dictate the sexual frequency, all in the name of protecting women's rights.
> 
> Yet another example of feminist extremists that wish for the dominant position, but don't really understand exactly what they are wishing for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn’t read that into it. I read the author is highlighting not enough sex for the wife and the reason for it. I guess if a woman has been allowed to totally take charge of the decision making in her marriage then she’s absolutely no respect for her husband and therefore highly unlikely to experience the “turn on feelings” needed to actually enjoy sex with him. Can a wife actually want, let alone desire, sex with a husband she doesn’t respect? I certainly couldn’t have sex with a woman I don’t respect. For me that would be abusing the woman and I wouldn’t feel good about that at all.

Is it feminism? I don’t know, in fact I don’t actually think it is in that there have always been strong women around. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it had something to do with it. The “I can do anything a man can do including making all the key decisions in the marriage.”. But for me in those cases it’s the man who’s abdicated his responsibilities and in some ways therefore his manhood.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah. Your right. I misread the closing statements.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm a feisty homemaker who has much RESPECT for her husband- who strangley likes dominate woman. I realize this makes your skin crawl, but do you have room in your thinking to realize that not every man looks at the world through the same glasses, and still they are GOOD men - with happy marraiges to boot ? 

I would admit to being BOSSY with my children, but NOT my husband. So that article does not represent me accually. Though my husband would call me dominant in many respects. 

He is sitting here, so I asked him- I said ....."Do you think I am dominate?" -he gets a big grin on his face  and says "yeah you are" I said "Do you like that "...he answers with that same grin..."Yeah, you know me, I like beastly women". Not making me sound too good with that- just his sense of humor is all. 

In our Household, whoever comes up with a plan , or idea- whether it be an addition to the house, any kind of work, where to go on vacation, anything & everything, we sit down together and talk it over, neither of us would go ahead without the other - always joint decision making here. 

There are many times he asks me what I want to do when he doesn't even have to. For instance, he likes to go to Coin Shows, coins are not my thing, I don't read about them, or know the prices - but I like to be with him so I go. When he finds something he wants, many times (not all) he will call me over & ask my opinion before he buys it, most especially if it is very expensive & I nearly always say the same thing...... "Honey, this is YOUR thing, you KNOW the deals, you don't need to ask me anything - just plunk the $$ down!". But still , it is nice that he is considerate like that, I don't feel it is a flaw in any way.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

With rights come responsibilities.

I would rather be happy than right.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SA, for me there is a massive difference between being dominant and being assertive. I think you are talking about being assertive, not dominant. In fact I see you as an assertive person, there’s many a time here you’ve been misunderstood and calmly asserted yourself and you do it exceedingly well.

But in no way do you dominate. Dominant to me is someone akin to having a Stalin or Hitler type character, people who get their way by dominating others, the dictators of the world I guess. I like spending time with assertive people.

Assertive people assert their own needs and desires, their own thoughts and feelings. They make them known so that others can satisfy their needs if that is what they want to do.

But assertive people don’t try and force others by dominating them to do what they want them to do. Like a rapist who holds a woman down. Or a husband who beats his wife to submission. Or the wife that bullies and belittles her husband such that he does what she demands him to do. These latter are the dominant people, the ones that dictate to others what they must do, how they must live etc. These latter people are the bullies of the world and if not stood up to will continue with their bullying ways.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Very good clarification there AFEH ! I think even I needed to see the distinction a little clearer. Yeah , I agree with you 100% on that.

I would NEVER in a million years be happy being like that (dominate the way you just described) -cause the other person would be utterly miserable & they would DESPISE me and well, there would surely be no pleasure or Romance in such a relationship, and heck, that is what I want! 

In bullying , I am always on the side of the victim, and frankly, would secretly love to see those bullys get "theirs" by maybe a bigger bully down the street - to teach them a good lesson. To see the bullies come to their knees, it is somehow very pleasurable indeed.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Sometimes there are literally power struggles in marriages. Shouldn’t be, but there are so it’s pointless denying it. The thing is to recognise and accept them for what they are. If you lose that power struggle then in my mind you may just as well give up on being a man in the marriage. Why? Because your wife will never respect you again and without the respect of his wife a man has nothing and is totally and utterly open to ridicule and public humiliation.
> 
> And you most certainly cannot lead a woman who has no respect for you.


This I am way too familiar with. My marriage failed first because I didn't vet my ex for her fitness to be married to me (see Dalrock's interviewing spouses threads; I ignored the red flags before marriage), then again because I didn't survive her fitness tests and finally because she was someone who could not tolerate someone else's authority well. So because I knew nothing about game tactics or manning up, I got blown into a subservient role that was enormously stressful. Looking back, I can see now how the lack of sex came out of her lack of respect for me. It's not a place I ever want to find myself in again and I feel tremendous sympathy for all men in this position, especially if children are present.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Zzyzx said:


> This I am way too familiar with. My marriage failed first because I didn't vet my ex for her fitness to be married to me (see Dalrock's interviewing spouses threads; I ignored the red flags before marriage), then again because I didn't survive her fitness tests and finally because *she was someone who could not tolerate someone else's authority well*. So because I knew nothing about game tactics or manning up, I got blown into a subservient role that was enormously stressful. Looking back, I can see now how the lack of sex came out of her lack of respect for me. It's not a place I ever want to find myself in again and I feel tremendous sympathy for all men in this position, especially if children are present.


Geesh. Why SHOULD your wife have accepted your authority? You sound very domineering.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Geesh. Why SHOULD your wife have accepted your authority? You sound very domineering.


You don't know the whole story so I forgive you that insult. I won't go into details out of respect for her (not that she deserves it), but her lack of respect for authority wasn't just about me, it showed up in many other areas in her life outside of us, areas that I had nothing to do with. It burned her several times that I know about and very likely more times that I don't know about. I'm no saint, in fact I fully admit I'm very fallible, I don't have all the answers, but my ex was not a suitable wife. And you try to tell me I sound very domineering? Sorry that does not compute here.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

So many people including yourself tried to dominate her?


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

AFEH said:


> So many people including yourself tried to dominate her?


Either you don't get it or you're taking the piss out of me. Well no matter, I already made my point. It's Friday afternoon, almost time for happy hour. I'll be sure to have a drink for you!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

The article says "compared to jointly" meaning together!! I'll add there seems to be a difference between the physical act of sex and feeling truly wanted between men and what is preferred.

I work with guys who routinely say "Well, you just do it!, Just rub up on her until she gives she is you wife!" For those times it's been 3-4 days for us. Almost like it's the act or the release they crave if that makes sense.

I can go whack off if I want a release.......I like the feeling of being wanted, passionate longer sex, so frequency for me isn't jack it's the quality.

In fact my wife is more like a guy she is fine with morning quickies. That is by far my least favorite type of sex. I always want the candles, the romance, the foreplay, the whole shebang........which at times my wife says can be overwhelming for her.

My points were fequency isn't as important as quality, for some intitiation is half of the fun, and the article says jointly not solely.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Zzyzx said:


> Either you don't get it or you're taking the piss out of me. Well no matter, I already made my point. It's Friday afternoon, almost time for happy hour. I'll be sure to have a drink for you!


If I take the piss it's with real good mates. With your good self you are right, I don't get it.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

This thread is like a hard slap in the face for me. These are the issues I do not want to admit to but are true.

Not to many years ago I was a successful executive in the corporate world climbing the ladder making great coin. I was a self made man who left college because I had been asked to by my employer. I was definitely upwardly mobile. In my early 40's I was ready to leave corporate behind and start my own business. The timing was perfect the kids were grown my wife had graduated and started a career that would replace a good chunk of my income. 

Over time my business failed due mostly to the economy. My wife has become a great success in her field and I have nothing but admiration for what she has accomplished. In the meantime I fear I have become a complete p***y. 

I really love this woman but I am 99.9% sure that she has little respect for me. Whenever I assert myself, which is rare these days, she basically tells me I am an idiot and I need to calm down or that I need to quit yelling at her (yelling is not a volume thing to her it is a tone that I evidently have no control over). The kids pay little attention to what I have to say and I think they figured this whole thing out before I did.

She spends a great deal of time at work (it is a demanding job) and she also spends a great deal more time with those that report to her (no men) socializing than she does with me. When she is home she reads or watches TV (she needs to wind down) but she "always has time for me" that is if I want to get a dirty look from her.

I do get the honor of taking her out on Friday nights so she can tell me about her week. If she is to tired I get to take her out Saturday night. 

In the past two years sex has gone from 2 times a week to 2 times a month or every 5 weeks. I will admit it is very good because I know what the hell I am doing and I know what buttons to push. Sometimes I just quit when I know or she tells me she is exhausted and sometimes she just is done and seems to care less if I am satisfied. 

I have pretty much made up my mind that if my work situation does not change (we live in a small community) that I am going to go where I can find a decent job and some self respect. I have mentioned this to her and she said she does not know how we will do it but it seems like her biggest concern is who will deal with the kids (young adults living at home) and with the day to day stuff. At this point I am numb and know that if I do not do something soon I will likely be locked in this routine forever and that scares me more than anything else.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Rclawson ...See , I think this is very very wrong, a good woman will stand by her man, and make him feel loved & valued -even if /when he looses that GOOD job, she will pick him up during that very vulnerable time, uplift his spirits and give him much hope & encouragement that he can find another. It may not be as wonderful with as high a paycheck, but this is OK too. 

If for some reason, you have not set yourself on the path of putting yourself out there to acheive this goal, showing pursuing effort, I can see where she may grow cold slowly... but her attitude DURING that initial fallout is so VERY VERY crucial, and telling. 

Sh* like that happens in life. I think so long as a couple can afford their bills, have a nice house to live in and not hurt for their needs, they have MUCH to be thankful for. 

My husband sometimes brings me these sayings home from work, they are put on the Urinal wall of all places , and he brought this one home one day, I never forgot it ....If he ever lost his job , I know I would think back to this saying:



> Some things bounce back, and some things don’t … Sometimes the right metaphor helps us see things in a new way, or just right. In his 30 second speech on work-life balance, Brian Dyson (CEO of Coca Cola) gives us a powerful metaphor for thinking about what bounces back, and what does not:
> 
> …
> 
> ...


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## Gd_listener (Oct 4, 2011)

I believe, like Emily Addison writes, that men are happiest when wrapped around the finger of the woman they love. A marriage of equals is a marriage of constant compromise. A wife-led marriage is an alternative to which many couples are opening their minds. Incidentally, it is usually the man trying to convince his wife to take over.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Gd_listener said:


> I believe, like Emily Addison writes, that men are happiest when wrapped around the finger of the woman they love. A marriage of equals is a marriage of constant compromise. A wife-led marriage is an alternative to which many couples are opening their minds. Incidentally, it is usually the man trying to convince his wife to take over.


That sounds really weird to me. Kind of like from another world, another planet. Like the no sex planet.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RClawson said:


> This thread is like a hard slap in the face for me. These are the issues I do not want to admit to but are true.
> 
> Not to many years ago I was a successful executive in the corporate world climbing the ladder making great coin. I was a self made man who left college because I had been asked to by my employer. I was definitely upwardly mobile. In my early 40's I was ready to leave corporate behind and start my own business. The timing was perfect the kids were grown my wife had graduated and started a career that would replace a good chunk of my income.
> 
> ...


You did it once.You can do it again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Gd_listener said:


> I believe, like Emily Addison writes, that men are happiest when wrapped around the finger of the woman they love. A marriage of equals is a marriage of constant compromise. A wife-led marriage is an alternative to which many couples are opening their minds. Incidentally, it is usually the man trying to convince his wife to take over.


But is the woman in that scenario happy? Based on the number of niceguys on this forum whose W's cheated on them with some dude with more alpha traits, and the number of guys on here looking for help manning up, I'd say there is some real life basis to the traditional gender roles. Tradition is not a one-fits-all solution, but definitely applies to the larger segment.


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

I could never live with a man who dominated me...Ours is a 50-50 marriage...I help him where he needs help and he in turn he is and has always been there for me with my downfalls in life...He is strong is all the many points in life where a man should be strong...I am the weaker of the two...More "iffie"....More inclined to give in when I shouldn't....Able in a situation to be pushed around without fighting back...Stressing peace without thinking of the consequences...

Earlier in a post of our life I wrote where we were more 60-40 as far as our sex life...This was true because I had always been in control of my own sexuality...I set the boundaries in our and my previous dating...Now it was time for me to learn to both share my life and my intimacies....I grew with age as he waited for this to happen....However, some acts of love I was not ready for...That being, giving him oral sex...This he would have to wait for....To me this act of love is the most intimate and difficult for a woman to accept as well as enjoy...Hate to tell you, but many women fake it......To me it was more important that I was able to do this with the lust and passion that it deserves...In other words, I am hooked...

I am the financial guru in our relationship....Not that I am wiser than he is, but that the business world intrigues me...He is my lord and master....I would bow to him anytime he asked...Not with a crowd around, but in the privacy of our life...I am jealous of women around him and will be until the day I die...I adore him and thank God for him...He is my life...Take care...

C


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

All through so many of the topics here is the same basic theme. The wife can't/won't/doesn't want to meet her husband even halfway and let's talk about the 3 million reasons why that might be reasonable or at least have some foundation in science. 

Which, if I were a wife, that's precisely the kind of distracting crumpled up piece of tinfoil I'd throw at my my husband as if he were a cat who needed distracting while I sat over here pretty much doing whatever the hell I wanted as long as it didn't involve him or his happiness.

Man in control - he's a brute, no sex for you
Man not in control - he's a doormat, no sex for you
Man spends 512 hours courting his wife - he's desperate, no sex for you
Man spends 1 hour courting his wife - he's taking her for granted, no sex for you

Really, we got it. It's not hard to understand.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Threetimesalady said:


> I could never live with a man who dominated me...He is strong is all the many points in life where a man should be strong...I am the weaker of the two...More "iffie"....More inclined to give in when I shouldn't....Able in a situation to be pushed around without fighting back...


So... in other words, he is the dominant one? 

I know what you mean, and I think that is the problem with this whole "dominant/submissive" thing... in the context most people are talking about on here dominance doesn't mean objectifying the other partner, doesn't make one of the other better, doesn't mean one is more controlling than the other, it is simply about men and women complimenting each other by fostering each other's natural strengths... in fact its not even necessarily about men vs women, its simply about two people in a committed relationship complimenting each other by fostering each others strengths. Dominance just simply refers to the one who is more comfortable setting the agenda. No matter who is the dominant one, there is no such thing as 60/40, 70/30 etc, a relationship is always 50/50.


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

Lon said:


> So... in other words, he is the dominant one?
> 
> I know what you mean, and I think that is the problem with this whole "dominant/submissive" thing... in the context most people are talking about on here dominance doesn't mean objectifying the other partner, doesn't make one of the other better, doesn't mean one is more controlling than the other, it is simply about men and women complimenting each other by fostering each other's natural strengths... in fact its not even necessarily about men vs women, its simply about two people in a committed relationship complimenting each other by fostering each others strengths. Dominance just simply refers to the one who is more comfortable setting the agenda. No matter who is the dominant one, there is no such thing as 60/40, 70/30 etc, a relationship is always 50/50.


Hi Lon: If he needed to be called the dominant one, then I bow my head in acceptance...He is my master....He makes me feel so young.....He completes me and make me whole.....We would each die for the other....That's just the way it is....C


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## jwc (Oct 5, 2011)

Ah yes, but how satisfied are they with their relationships overall?

How power is shared in successful relationships was more a focus of cognitive psychologists several decades ago than now. 

What they were saying back then was that there are lots of ways couples who stay together allot power between them. The key seemed to be that the division of who decides what and who carries out the decision needed to be clear and acceptable to both for it to hold together over time.

One of those psychologists, Richard Stuart, DSW, even had worksheets for couples to use to become more conscious of how they dealt with power in their relationships in his textbook for graduate psychotherapy students, _Helping Couples Change._ 

I also came across another interesting study that suggested that over time having more power in a relationship resulted in less satisfaction in a paper titled _Power and Satisfaction In Intimate Relationships_, from Loyola University New Orleans.

What any of this has to do with who gets how much sex isn't clear. There _was_ a survey a few years ago that reported male homosexual couples had the most sex, heterosexual couples next, and then lesbian couples. Maybe it has to do with testosterone.

At the end of the day, I guess if what you're doing is working, it's probably best not to mess with it and if it isn't, then's the time to look for ways to change it up.

There seem to be as many ways to make relationships work as there are couples . . . and to screw them up too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You don't think sex is about power?


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## jwc (Oct 5, 2011)

Yes, I think that power is a very basic component of sex. I suspect that like other deep expressions of self, there is variation among people in how much of the mix it is.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sex is quite frequent for us, yet she's rather bossy. The theory fails in my case.


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