# Help Rebuild a Marriage - SA



## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I decided rather than starting a new post every time something came up I would just put it all in this post and update every now and then (Most likely every day or two).

How we met: I was living with a girlfriend that I didn't want to be with anymore. I had a very negative outlook on my life. I thought with all the partying I was doing I'd probably be luck to make it to 30 yrs old. I was 22 at the time and had been in this new country (In Asia) for 3 years.

My now wife was married to an abusive husband. It was arranged by them in order to please their parents. The idea was for him to live on his own in another part of the country and for them to lead separate lives but he decided NOT to follow through on that and 'made' her his wife. Domestic violence and the fact that both their parents didn't see abuse as a bad thing made life hard for her. She had been in abusive relationships far too many times before.

We met at work, we were both at a very low point in our lives. We connected through the pain, somehow and our relationship started as an affair (Karma is a *****). 3 months later I got the courage to get out of relationship I was in an into a better apartment and my wife got a divorce. We started living together.

Unfortunately, the living conditions were so that we had to have a roommate. Lucky for us, the roommate was a good friend that was rarely around. It took me about 3 months to ask her to marry me. A bit soon? She said yes. Over the course of about 2 years we were weekend clubbers. We worked hard during the week and had fun on the weekend.

Her mother came into the picture when she lost her job (Due to her age). We found her a nice place to live. Unfortunately she didn't do a very good job of taking care of herself and on several occasions we had to make emergency trips by taxi (A costly way to travel but a 1/10th the time) thinking she had fallen or something only to find that she simply had her phone off.

We decided to move into a larger apartment in the same building. We had an extra room (So 3 bedrooms) and one went to my MIL.

My wife and I got married but we didn't have a ceremony. For me the day was special. For my wife, I would later find out (Recently..) that she felt it wasn't special and that all we did was sign some papers on our day off.

Over the last 4 years of marriage, we had ups and downs. I will say I have a lot of resentment towards my MIL, although I never show it. She makes up a good amount of the downs. The stress, the tears and the anger my wife feels in dealing with her mother on these occasions is very painful for me, as a husband, to watch. When my wife's father died, my MIL refused to go to the funeral because she 'didn't feel up to it'. She basically left it up to my wife (I went of course). There was a constant talk from her about suicide, empty threats I'm sure, but still these would spark a fire in my wife. She put a hole in the wall on one occasion, took a pair of scissors to a box of Kleenex, fell to the floor on a number of occasions pulling at her hair and crying. As best I could I would comfort her and then calmly explain to my MIL that what happened was not something 'good'.

Other stressful issues would be work, the fact that I work 7 days a week and that the only days off I ever had off were when I had cancellations in work. When I did have the opportunity to be with my wife and do something together, I always did and wanted to. Even with work, we managed to go to the movies a few times a month. We would usually eat dinner before or after and enjoy some wine (Which my wife would bring). We attend parties together, went to the zoo, aquarium...we went everywhere together. Every 'special' day, birthdays, Christmases etc. I would always do something special. I have been able to surprise her every year on her birthday and she always thinks 'Next year you won't be able to.' but I find a way. I did special things for her even on days that were not special, just to make her feel good which made me feel good.

Our sex life took a big hit. I blamed it on stress caused by her mother. My wife was 'willing' to have sex but there was no real desire. I thought this would improve once she left her job, had more time for herself and started to study (Something she still wants to do)

I know she wanted to have kids. The way she talked about it. I know that age was a concern for her. She is 9 years older than me. We never used protection during sex. We used the 'pull out' method with the idea that 'if a baby comes along, great.' It was only in 2008/9 that we really started trying. There would be months where we'd try and others where something was happening so the 'pull out' method was used. At the end of 09 my wife and I decided we should get checked out since nothing was happening, just to be safe. She had a horrible experience her new OBGYN and came home in tears. While no problems were found, she did mention that in her early 20's she had had 2 abortions, something I've never judged her for doing, nor would I anyone. She has felt guilty for doing it and I know there's little I can do except support her. Her doctor and the nurses didn't take so kindly to the news. BUT...the problem in the end would be with me and a low sperm count. At the start of January (This year, 2010) I was on weekly injections. The doctor said that by the end of March my count should be up, and it was. We decided to go on vacation (The first in 2 years) but we timed it poorly...she started her period just as we were heading out.

April we tried, but nothing happened. We were busy too because it was the end of the financial year.

April 29 - We go to a friends wedding. My wife and I attend together. At the second party we were all having a good time. When it came time to go home, I left with my wife and the OM. I forgot my jacket at the restaurant and had to go back and get it. This was to be a big mistake (Depending on how you look at it). My wife and the OM (Who lives in the same building and who I had no trust issues with) Because I would end up taking a taxi home (Having missed the last train) they would arrive at the apartment first. When I got home, my wife wasn't there. I went to the station to help with bags, but the station gates were closing. I called, no answer. I find out after that HE had asked HER to check out his place. He lives in the apartment we use to live in. She went, I was angry because I was worried, but that anger was short lived. I've only every gotten upset with my wife if she makes me worry.


Between April 29th and May 13th - My wife is in touch with the OM via email (And by email I mean by telephone) Apparently he asked for her phone number on the way home and she gave it to him, she then asked for his phone number and phone email and gave her phone email to him. The emails she sent were not bad. She told him via email that she was tired because of work.

May 14th she breaks one of the only house rules we have. She was out with her co-workers and because her battery died, she couldn't be contacted. Normally this is fine, but when it gets to be 2am in the morning, I start to worry. She tries to sneak in at 7am. This turns into a fight and I get the feeling there's more. I pick a bad time a few days later to pick the fight...while she's getting ready for work. It seemed to me she didn't understand that I was worried. To her it sounded like I was being controlling. I thought there was more to it and asked her "Do you still want to be with me?" in a slightly paniced voice. She looked at me with evil eyes and said "I don't know." This obviously shattered my world.

I tried to get her to take the day off work so we could figure things out. She's angry now and says she's going to work. I fester for the day and then meet her after work outside her office. We talk calmly. She says "I need time." I ask for a better explanation of what that means. She said the best explanation was "There's a desk, it's messy but you know where everything is. I sit at it and all I see is a mess. I need to clean that mess before I can move on." I ask her if WE are safe, if our MARRIAGE is safe, if we are still going to have KIDS? She says yes.

This was something that may have been building up inside of her for sometime but was a shock to my system and I didn't handle it well. The first 2 weeks I was a mess. Desperate to show her I loved her, feeling sick and throwing up, trying to figure out a way to fix things. All of these I now see as big mistakes...but I never expected this to happen in my marriage, nobody gave me a manual.

May 29 there's a party at the OM house. By this time I know she's in touch with him. I saw a message on her facebook about the exchange in information. I figured it was just her being nice. My wife asks if I'm going to the party. She says she 'has to go' because she promised person A and person B that she would go. I said I would go as well. She then asks "Are you sure? Do you think you should go with the way you're feeling." That raises an eyebrow, but I still say yes. It's as if she didn't want me to go.

The incident - Basically, my wife is being rather distant at the party. BUT I'm enjoying myself. Talking with friends. She had PMS so I figured that into the equation of being distant from me. I leave the party at 12am. She says she'll be up soon. I think she has work the next day. 230am, I send an email just in case she needs a 'way out' of a conversation or something. I know she needs a lot of time in the morning to get ready for work and didn't want her feeling like crap the next day. No reply. At 430am I wake up and she still isn't home. I call. No answer. I go down and catch them naked together. Sex hadn't started, but that is besides the point at this stage.

I hear his side, I hear her side, separately. My wife seems in and out of it, due to panic, alcohol, and although she insists not, perhaps drugs. Once the panic subsides, she begins to realize how big a mistake she's made, how much pain she's caused. Because the OM insisted that she said she was leaving and that we were already on our separate paths (As in divorce was final) I thought that maybe all this time she was looking for a way out. So I offer it to her. I was empty inside, dead.

She gave me her side and divorce never came up according to her. She let things get as far as they did for no other reason than she was weak in that moment. She accepted full responsibility and wasn't looking to make excuses. She would cry and cry.

I told her I would forgive her (Too soon?) but that we would need to set a few things straight. First, NC with the OM. She would later say "I want to have a conversation with him because I feel betrayed." While this is no longer a topic we discuss, I have a feeling that she still wants this conversation. Also, whatever time she needed before is now expired with the action/mistake she made. No more lies, no more secrets.

She then took my hand and said she still wanted to be Mrs. (my last name). The same day, later on, I would ask her if she wants to clear anything up. I told her I already asked for all the details I need and after this I don't want to talk about it anymore. I wanted to erase this scar...I guess that wasn't a good thing since now I have more questions. She wanted to make clear the parts where she says she didn't say anything about divorce or separation and that she was never 'coming onto him' as he had stated.

June 1st, my birthday...and the worst one ever. She tried to be nice, but it was 'forced'. I was a mess. I tried to man it up but couldn't. The emotions and images were too strong.

June 6th is another friends wedding where I was the photographer. The OM was there and a big part of the wedding. I needed alcohol in my system to get through the first 12 hours of the day but at one point had to make a quick exit. I couldn't take it. I head home, try to be normal but break down. My wife hugs me and says she understands how hard it must have been.

June 10 we're suppose to be trying to have kids. I would later read that no major decisions should be made so soon after something like this, but for some reason I felt that having kids would make things better. I don't know why. BUT my wife by this time has crawled back into her shell of "I need time." At first I was put off by that. I told her time was up, she agreed, now she's back at it. There are a few tiffs here and there. Occasions where she tries to shift the blame of the A to me. I accepted responsibility for not being the best husband I could be and that I would do my best to change that, but I was just sick to my stomach that she would try to put the blame on me. I mention the hurt that the incident caused me and she tried to compare it to hurt that she's had to deal with. Again, not the same, but I ask how I hurt her.

I would listen and not challenge her. If she felt that I did something so bad then I would need to know. In my head though, for every reason she gave (And there weren't many) there was always a flip side to the coin where I was doing well and she wasn't. Her biggest concerns were 1. My taking part in the cleaning around the house 2. My health (Although healthy now, down the road she felt I would eventually get sick) 3. Lack of conversation (Although she says this is a very low, more just irritating on occasion kind of concern) Anything else that made her upset was, in her own words, not worth mentioning since we all do things on occasion that piss each other off. The house cleaning part, in my head, was valid to a point: She did the dishes and the laundry most of the time. She also took out the trash. I did all the shopping, most of the cooking, prepared meals for her mother (That would be breakfast, lunch and dinner almost everyday) and did all the heavy lifting (We get stuff sent to our place all the time and moving it isn't something I want her to do on her own, so I do it). Still, there were other areas NEITHER of us were doing that bothered her but didn't bother me so much. The fact that NEITHER of us were doing this had me thinking 'She doesn't mind so I guess it's not a problem'. Also, anytime I did take the initiative in doing something around the house, I almost always did it wrong (Meaning I did it my way and not hers).

The health issue is something she feels strongly about. Her father suffered a stroke when she was 18 and was in a vegetative state for almost 18 years before passing away. Her mother is sick now and that is causing a lot of stress on both of us. Had she taken better care of herself (And paid her insurance) then care would have been much easier. My wife takes good care of her body, trying to eat organic foods, taking her supplements. I eat well too, but in larger amounts. I do powerlifting (Or did until last month) which meant a calorie surplus was needed. My weight would fluctuate between seasons. My wife says that not only was my health a concern for her, but that she also really wanted to be able to shop for me. Being bigger meant getting stuff order made or from the big and tall store. I'm not a 'fashionable' person and don't pay much attention to brands. My wife can make anything look good and she wants to be able to bring her husband to the stores to buy fashionable clothes. So, that's an issue.

Conversation, I will definitely admit, is something I needed to work on. The way I thought of it was "I'm coming home at 9pm. Is my wife fighting with my MIL? Is the fight over? Is my wife just going to complain about work?" And it would most of the time be 1 of the 3. Rarely did I come home to a welcoming conversation. My mistake was not trying hard enough to shift the conversation into something more fun. When we went on vacation in March, we spent a lot of time in the car. She likes driving but I have to say she can be a bit scary behind the wheel. So, talking while driving wasn't something we did a lot of. I can see now, looking back, how I missed so many chances to have a good conversation with her. That isn't to say we didn't...we did. We talked about kids, hobbies, where to travel next time. But I see she wanted more, although she says it wasn't that big of an issue.

More would come out about specific moments where she was unhappy. She said that I laughed at the idea of her learning French. It may have come off that way but it was only because she hadn't mastered English and that was the language she wanted to and has the opportunity to learn more of. I wasn't trying to dismiss her idea but I guess it came off that way. She also wanted to get into nutrition, a specialist in vitamins and minerals. There were courses she could take. I honestly thought it was a bad idea. When it comes to nutrition and people who need advice on a specific diet, they go to a dietitian. Anyone else is just guess IMHO. I know because of the dieting I do. There's a whole lot of misinformation about how to diet and what to take as far as supplements go. This was dismissing the idea, but only because I thought she could do something far more valuable with her time. This made her mad.

I brought up sex with her. The reason I did was because she had gone outside our marriage and was about to have sex. She said that she feels no desire. That penetration hurts. That the pain wasn't bothersome in the beginning because there was so much emotion there as well. Since that emotion is no longer there, she feels that sex is more something she has to do as a wife. This didn't make me feel good. She went on to tell me that kissing me was like kissing was not possible. I asked "You mean like kissing a brother." She said that was not it but that it was like I was too delicate and that if she kissed me she was tainting me. I didn't and still don't buy that. She admits that these are issues she has to see a doctor about but she has not made any appointments. We tried Viagra and it worked a little, but not to the extent that either of us was happy.

So now I'm a month out from D-Day. I'm trying hard to understand what's going on in her head while trying to sort things out in my own head. Only on one day did I have an OK day all day long...until my MIL decided to make trouble.

Trust is still an issue. My wife doesn't seem to get that since she's not accounting for time. I went through text messages I got from her prior to D-Day and found lots of 'love you so much' 'Sorry I didn't email you earlier, thinking of you.' kind of email. Nothing like that...I guess I shouldn't expect anything like that any time soon. I still get the feeling she's looking for a way out, but that could be me over-analyzing everything. I do my best to put a confident face forward, I've taken on more house work, leaning out, but still having to deal with emotional rollercoaster rides on the inside.

My wife says she needs to 'fix herself' before she can work on the marriage. How she plans to do that while working full-time I don't know. All I can do is be patient and supportive. A lot of the marriage builder stuff is something she is not interested in, at least not now. No counseling available in this country (At least not marriage counseling). Everyday is a struggle. I want to move out but that can only be done if the two of us do it. I have done all the searching, all the apartment viewing. She hasn't. I don't know what she is waiting for.

A scary thing for me is if she's just biding her time to find a good exit and all this effort I'm putting into finding us a new place is just her way of keep me occupied while she's really just figuring a way out financially.

I'm sure that's long enough...now I'll use this thread for updates.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Is there such a thing as being 'too focused on a relationship'

My wife said it a few weeks back as though it were a bad thing. My life the past 2 months has be about US. She hasn't said anything recently as I explained it to her 'something is broken at home, it's hard to leave home without thinking about it.'


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Many have told you that you are too focused ... on her. You need to fucus on you. My friend, S., who I talk to everyday, helps me get through the rough spots and helps me concentrate on me. But we talk about her and relationships in general. The friend you talk to must help you clear your head. Even though it seems he gives you bad advice (and you don't foolw it. Good thing.)
S. thinks it is agood thing that my wife is out of the house. Her affair continues. He thinks that if she were in the house I would have real trouble with love busters. I think my son would have trouble with his mom and dad in constant turmoil. But my Plan A became more like a Plan B this week because there has been no contact between us.
You know my position on the two of you getting out of the house. I think your idea of meeting her at work when she is done is great. You have to get the two of you out of that house. You are doomed if you keep this pattern up. You are boring. You are suffocating.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I am focused on her and I don't know how I can't be when I'm with her. We spend a little time together in the morning and the time we do spend at home at night is all about winding down from work, drinking a glass of wine and being in bed with either enough time to get a good nights sleep (If she has an early shift) or enough time for her to go online and do her thing.

Things get caught in my head. She used to always call me Honey or say Honey Bunny. She asked me if it was OK that she used this with friends (An English question since I guess some of her female friends have used it). She also mentioned that a male friend of OURS calls her his freaky friend and that she feels the need to give him some kind of nickname. Not exactly what I wanted to hear. He lives in Australia and is my friend...however, I don't know how much email is being sent. I would ask HER but feel that I might regress whatever progress we may have made. If I ask HIM it may turn into a rumor 'He asked me how much mail, I wonder if there's trouble.'

With all the time she apparently has to email all these friends, I wonder when I might start getting some of that email loving back. I'm taking guesstimates at what some of Love Busters might be and I think I've done well so far but it's hard to know when it's just me. I wish it were US working on things NOW. Patients...

ETA: I am on the Carrot & Stick part. I'm doing my best to better myself and trying hard to make life easier for my wife at home. I have a feeling that a little love letter or gesture of this type will come off bad. I do however make sure she knows that her favorite wine is at home and ready for her. She loves wine. I bought her a new wine glass a few weeks back (I broke her other one on the day I caught her) and her reaction was "This is not (insert brand name). But it will do for now." It was that reaction that I DIDN'T want but I guess I can't win them all.

I need to really focus on my feelings and getting past the hurt. It's still there and right now, all I can think that will keep it from hurting is for her to do a 180 and come running back at me, but I don't see that happening. I think too much during the day. My boss knows I'm having a hard time at home. I have 3 friends right now that I can talk to about this. They all have different schedules and their own lives and different ways of looking at the situation. When I talk about it, I feel better. But I still have deep trust issues that I can't get over, not 1 month in. Since she has asked for time again, I have done what I can to give it to her. Not asking about babies, not asking about our marriage (Good bad?) but just talking. Yes, we should get out. I wish it were that easy. I have found that listening to her, even when she's complaining about something or being negative about something, to NOT disagree with her but to just listen is something that works. She goes to bed or to work not in a bad mood. I guess it's hard to be mad at someone when they are not arguing against you (Good bad?)

She talks about how 'By Christmas time I will be able to take you shopping." So in some ways she is thinking ahead, to the future and I seem to be there. But, as is my problem now with emotions and reading too much into things, I wonder if this is simply a distraction so that she can make plans to exit. As it is now, financially she can't make it on her own, not with her mother. It may seem harsh but with all the pain her mother has caused I wonder if my wife sometimes feels that 'I just have to wait until she's dead, then I can worry about me and leave.' In the past I've felt 'I wonder when she'll be dead so we can finally have peace in the house.' Not something you want to be feeling. I don't know if anybody has ever taken care of a parent who causes so much trouble...I have never told my wife this, I don't want her feeling any worse that she already does when it comes to caring for her mother.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Given her circumstance I see all the elements to her considering another EA. I hate to say it. Can you change you job and get on her schedule? Meet her for lunch? Hey, at some point she may just leave you with her mom. Look, my wife, who lived for her son, left him with me. She wouldn't stay for him!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Would I be wrong in considering this to be less an EA and more a moment of weakness (Cheating without the sex)?

ETA: Something came up in conversation today, after work. I can see she's tired. Tomorrow we are attending a wedding together, the dinner part anyways. I don't know how it will go. I'm glad we are getting out together.

The part that worries me is another 'farewell' party for a mutual friend. It's going to happen on a Saturday night at a night club. I will most definitely work Sunday. I don't know if my wife will have the day off. If she does and I want US to go home, how should I frame it...how do I ask her to come home with me without it sounding like an order. The trust issues are still there and it being a night club I can only feel it being a killer on my emotions if I leave before she does...that might just be the answer...don't leave before she does. I'm not looking forward to that day.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Some observations, SA. 

1) I agree with Iam - it seems to me that your wife is still in her affair. All of her actions point toward this. Cheating without the sex IS an EA - anytime your spouse gets the emotional needs you should be supplying filled by another person, that is known as an EA. 

You need to act accordingly: 7 steps to ending an affair. Start at the beginning.

This has been a concern of mine for a while, but I was trying to get you to break your obsession on her actions and concentrate on yours before going into it farther: the danger is that you will simply damage your relationship more - even destroy it because of jumping into reaction without planning your moves.

2) You list all the stuff you do for your wife as though these are the things she needs filled by you. You do the housework, laundry, etc., and are confused as to why this is not working.

And yet, your wife is chatting, seeing other men, and cutting you off. All of this leads to a single conclusion: she is getting her cake and eating it too. You are filling some needs, another guy is filling others. She doesn't want you to get in the way of this - most likely she has convinced herself that you are incapable of filling them. Hence, she responds pleasantly until you get to that point where you are treading on the grounds now filled by this other man/men.

So what are you going to do?

Here's something to consider: suppose I decided that mowing the lawn and changing the oil in my wife's car was the way that she wanted me to tell her I loved her. I do that regularly - and even, on ocaision throw in a little extra - take her out to dinner, etc. I am convinced that she must know how much I love her - all this stuff I do for her! 

And yet my wife is unhappy. Suppose in her mind she need me to sit with her every evening and just listen to her. She needs me to tell her how wonderful she is, how beautiful, etc. And I seem to always be busy nosing the yard, or tinkering with the car. Not that those things aren't nice - but why oh why won't he show me he loves me! 

This is a basic error that most of us fall into at some time or other. We assume what our spouse sees as love from us. 

In your case, this is probably going on - but it is also compounded by your wife not completely telling you the things she really wants: she has thrown you some crumbs to give you something to do - and you are busy chasing the crumbs - but all the while, I suspect that the biggest things that are happening in your marriage are Love Busters.

As for this 'farewell' party: some pieces of advice: first, don't borrow trouble. You spend WAY too much time _imagining[/] what can happen and then experiencing all the emotions that accompany that, as if it were reality. You let your mind run away with you, and then spend all your time feeling bad because you figured out what was the worst possible possibility - and assumed it is real. 

Second, take the danged time to state this as a RESPECTFUL request to your wife. I gave you the WTFS method in another post, use it. If she chooses to ignore it, have a plan on what you will do.

Third, quit trying to control her. People hate being controlled. Instead, give her freedom, coupled with the freedom to face the consequences. You don't want something to happen, so you will follow her around to make sure she doesn't do it. That is a Love Buster of oceanic proportions. You really think it will make her love you if you follow around after her, making sure she doesn't talk to the people you fear? News for you: this builds resentment, and the desire to get even farther away from you.

I wonder: how much of this is indicative of how things have gone over the years?_


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

OK…forgive me if I seem a bit confused (I’m dealing with so much emotional turmoil).
I understand that what she did was cheat. She got physical and emotional (emails) with this guy. When he turned on her blaming her she felt ‘betrayed’. Since trust is now an issue, I would say I’m 90 percent sure she’s not going to him anymore. The other 10 percent is because of the secrets she had for the 1 month. It was an emotional affair that turned physical, if only for 10 minutes. She accepted blame and said she had no excuse to let it get that far. 
In 2009 I was feeling like my wife wasn’t putting forward her best with me and I would say then that I had an EA (Does this mean emotional affair or extramarital affair…or both). I saw young ladies I worked with and they would flirt, and I liked it. I suppose I’m guilty then as well. That hasn’t happened for some time now, but now I feel really bad for my actions.
As far as following her around…I never did anything like this in the past. In fact, on her last birthday after drinking for several hours with friends we decided to go home. 1 friend wanted to continue at a club but I wasn’t up for it. I told my wife to go ahead and asked the 1 friend to make sure she takes a taxi home. She went out and had a good time. I would never have thought she would do anything so I was never the jealous, shadowing type of person. In fact, at certain events where I was sitting not so close to my wife, guys on one side ladies on the other, some men who didn’t know we were in a relationship would start talking with her and think “I think this girl digs me.” Only later to find out that we are a couple and apologizing to me for saying what they say. My wife always said “I don’t know why, I was just being nice.” 
For the past couple of weeks, I’m so focused on the INSIDE, guessing where this is all going. I either want to be alone and sleep or drink alcohol to numb the pain. I analyze everything to an extent where you are right, I think worst case scenario and go with those feelings. Is this just me? I do try to NOT think about it and focus on me, but it’s very hard. I don’t know if it’s because I’m still just a month out from d-day or if it’s just the person I am. I don’t let on to my wife that this is how I’m feeling, I don’t want her to ‘lose respect’ and see me as begging her for answers (Although I wish she would through her arms around me and proclaim her love to me)…that’s key too right?
If I start with the 7 steps I the only evidence I will be able to get that I don’t have access to that might have more information is in her telephone. I THINK I’m on Carrot and Stick. I’m trying to figure out her love busters. I haven’t been over-bearing, pleading for her undying attention, mailing her every chance I get, calling her to make sure she’s home or doing ‘this’ and not ‘that’. I am doing my best to give her space but to also know that I’m around. 
She smiles when she sees I’ve dropped more weight. She’s happy to come home to wine without worrying about doing other work. We talk (Something she has said she missed doing) and we do this for a good 2 hours (She talks, I listen mostly. She keeps it on the subjects she likes and I’m learning new things about her which is nice). I try to show her affection, compliment her without over-complementing her. I try to be engaging, confident and strong. On the inside it’s a different story though…and it really depends on the day, whether we got to cuddle in the morning, if she has a day-off and I don’t. 
That’s my hardest thing right now, her being at home able to do what she wants while I’m at work. Today, I came home a bit earlier to change into some drier clothes. When I came home she had JUST finished taking a shower which means she was relaxing most of the morning. I did notice a Facebook page open when I walked in and closed by the time I was back in that room. I saw the picture she was looking at clearly and it was of 2 female friends…not sure why she’d want to hide it…which makes me think maybe that page was in the way of the music page (See…reaction, over-reaction…got work on this)
The method in which you say I can bring up issues, such as the evening we will be at the night club, I really don’t know how to word it well enough that I have any confidence in sitting down with her and not feeling scared she’ll take it the wrong way. Her first language is not English, although she speaks it very well. She may interpret it as ‘controlling’ and that’s not what I want to do. I didn’t BEFORE the EA but I did try to figure things out AFTER because trust was gone.
Today she had the day off. We made plans to go out to a party after a wedding. We spent a good 4 hours away from home and talking with all kinds of people. There were visitors from Australia there and all the couples where holding hands etc…something I miss now. I tried putting my arm around my wife and she didn’t reject it. It was a great evening…but tomorrow, Sunday, I have to work and she’ll be at home. I will wake up, go through my new routine of cuddling and making small talk (Deep discussions are evening time). I’d love to know what she could possibly be getting from another person…the only thing I can think of is perhaps some excitement. That’s what it was with the first EA…excitement you get with the start of a new ‘honeymoon’ phase. Once that phase is gone and you want your old hubby back, he might not be around.
Some days, even if I know my wife is not doing anything ‘bad’ I do feel like my head is spinning around with emotions and creating scenarios. I’m better myself by cleaning more etc. Whether my wife thinks of this as a bonus for her or not, I should’ve been doing this long ago anyways.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

*Limbo sucks*

Do you want to rebuild your marriage?...if you're not sure, I don't care if you do 1000 steps or 2 steps, it won't work unless you really want to try it, even then there are no guarantees, so ask yourself, are you going to flip/flop everyday or actually start doing something or just going your own way?..Limbo sucks and that seems to be where you're at, once people are out of limbo one way or the other, then they start ,moving forward, limbo is one of the things to work on, the BS had/has no limbo, therefore it was easy to move in another direction, lots of people live in limbo, but it is a marriage killer..limbo, stuck in a rut, in the same place for a length of time.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Well maybe the others are the experts on affairs. I just call it the way I see it. If you were so inept, surely she would have mentioned something, but I don't see it in any of her concerns. Frankly, I find her concerns and reasons for the affair a bunch of BS. I stick with what I said before and ask you again to man up and leave. I wish you'd get your face out of her arse because she does not like it any more than you do. It is not getting you anywhere. She is not nearly so remorseful as she should be. Instead, you give her 150 opportunities to blame you in round about ways without actually coming out and saying anything meaningful. You PROVIDE opportunity for her to do exactly as a cheater does - not accept responsibility and place blame everywhere but themselves.

I want your happiness to be as important to her as hers is to you, but you don't seem to want that. You seem to be perfectly happy expecting her for the rest of your days. You seem to accept this new existence of yours, as if it is acceptable tradeoff for loving her so much. You are concerned that she's biding her time to leave but just as much accept that as a possibility as her staying. Why? Why are you the only one jumping through hoops? She should be jumping through those same hoops to fix your marriage, make you happy, and begging your forgiveness. If she came close to any of that, getting through the hurt and pain would be a little easier for you; getting through the day would be easier. But she doesn't feel she has to do anything because you are all up in her butt. She is too comfortable taking you for granted. She is too comfortable she can do whatever she wants. She doesn't feel she has to jump through hoops because you are wrapped around her finger. Walk out the door and show her how wrong she is. Walk out the door and show her you are worth her effort. Leave and make her come to you for once. And if she doesn't, you will have all your questions and concerns answered. But I bet she will....if for no other reason than she needs you. Realizing how much she needs you will give her SOME kind of appreciation. Needing you will likely make her see how much she really does love you and doesn't want to lose you. You need to take that chance or your marriage is doomed because you are doomed. You'll never climb out of this depressed and desperate mode you are in, and she's going to get sick of you being all up in her arse.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I want my happiness to be important to her. She certainly isn't as remorseful as I would expect and I think that has a lot to do with how I treated her (let's forget this and move on)...I am depressed thinking that I'm not as important to her as I use to be (that's how I feel, she says different). On 1 occassion she said "I'm not making you happy or my mother happy. How can I be a good person? How can I be a good wife." And by the tone it sounded as if that was a rehtorical question. I don't see myself as up her ass as much as I'm doing things I shouldve done long ago. Leaving is scary...I'm trying my best to be patient and deal with each situation each day with confidence. Because we had such a nice time last night today I feel 'ok'. I'm not thinking too much. BUT I will be looking at step 1 again and gather evidence of a possible EA in progress, something emotional. She saw the hurt she caused and how shameful it was for her to have that EA turn physical. I don't think my wife understands emotional affairs, I certainly didn't until I came to this site. I will speak with her when I have evidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

So today was weird.

I went to work feeling kind of happy. I really had no reason to be happy other than I was leaving the apartment and keeping myself busy. While at work on my break I went to a local Starbucks and my mind started to wonder. I was imagining 'worst case' scenarios again only coming to a different conclusion...that I'd end up with someone happy to be with me. It was kind of odd. Then I sent a text to my wife, very non-logistic. She recommended a certain drink on the menu at Starbucks in her reply. She seemed upbeat in her text. I wondered, for a few minutes, if it was because I was out and she was at home to do what she wanted. I called to ask her to make reservations for a couple of movies. She was at home and said she planned on staying at home.

When I finished, around 8pm, I sent a text that I was on my home and asked "Is everything OK at home?" I knew that she would be at home with my MIL. Everything was NOT OK. Her and her mother were at each other since lunch and when I got home my wife had no reason to be angry with me (I don't think I've done any Love Busters so it was hard for her to transfer her anger to me). 

After calming her down and listening to her feelings I took her to bed and continued to talk about random stuff. I gave her a bit of a massage and she was very grateful. In her attitude, the words she used and how she came off before closing her eyes was all 'nice', so much so that I felt like she was a different person than that of the last month. She went to bed earlier and I'm up now taking care of some other business before packing it in. She went to bed feeling better that I was at home which made me feel good.

Tomorrow is a new day and I know she has an early shift which means she can avoid her mother. I am more capable of handling her mother. She can't push my buttons as easily unless she directly pushes my wife's buttons. She tried when I got home but my wife put an end to it. Normally she would allow it but she 'shielded' me from her mother's 'evil' long enough for me to gather myself and comfort her.

For the first time in a month I've had a pretty good appetite for dinner. I feel a bit bloated actually. Lost more weight though, co-workers noticed. I'm still more focused on her than myself, but I am keeping an eye on myself. I found myself thinking about alternative endings to all the troubles. Perhaps tiring myself out with what I've been playing in my head.

So, let's see what tomorrow shoots at me.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

This morning was hot which had my wife out of bed earlier than usual. Not unusual for summer time though. She was rather pleasant. And so was I...

...that is until a couple hours after she left. I checked her Facebook account. She had sent out a couple of messages via Facebook to friends. They are married, friends from before we were even together and who are living in different parts of the world. Nothing bad...the one message that I got that tore a hole in my gut was something like this "I have a long story to tell you. (My name) is coming to (His girlfriend's name) farewell party." This is my friend and there is no way they'd be getting together BUT what caught me off guard was that my wife said she had a long story to tell him...this would likely be because we both skipped his birthday party a little over a month ago after we had a big fight BEFORE the EA happened (While the emotional part was just starting). I don't know if she means she wants to tell him 'everything' or just that we're having problems. He's not the kind of person anyone goes to for advice, he's a bit ditsy but still a good friend. Young too, with little experience.

My wife doesn't know that I check her Facebook, email etc. If she knew I doubt she'd be sending anything via any internet service. I'd rather know and use it to my advantage.

Like I said, none of her anger is being transferred over to me since I THINK I've managed to stay away from Love Busters. I can't say for sure though. As far as meeting her emotional needs, she was saying "I don't want to live with unhealthy people anymore" She's had to deal with taking care of her mother and father for half her life. Since my appearance has gotten 'healthier' since a few months back, she hasn't made any comments on my size except nice ones.

She admitted that after what she went through with her mother yesterday that she can't relax at home. She can't do anything at home without feeling like she's on edge (Her mother being the problem there) She tried reading for a part of the afternoon but the heat, humidity and her mother KNOWING she was at home and calling her ever now and then got in the way of her relaxing. I had suggested earlier in the day that she get out of the house and she would tell me later she wish she had.

As for Saturday night's party, I was thinking of getting a Hotel in town, a nice one. Her mother can survive a night at home alone I would imagine. I haven't asked my wife about it, but if she has to work the next day, the hotel would be right there by her work, and I would be much closer to work for Sunday. If she doesn't have to work at least she's out of the apartment for most of the day and can enjoy some alone time until at least check out time.

I have no evidence that she's doing anything bad. She's keeping in touch with male friends, these are friends that are married with kids in different parts of the world. None of the email are bad, just asking how things are going. Replies are similar.

I haven't had a chance to check her telephone yet. Not sure when that will happen. Her friend who was let into the loop on her side will be at that party. She's batting for my wife's team with the attitude of "You have to do what makes you happy." She's not pro-marriage as much as she is pro-happy. She isn't the kind of person my wife is looking to for advice just to let out some of her feelings. I'm not sure what to expect of her when I see her Saturday night. There are definitely people on my side who are wondering what's going on and why I've been so distant. I don't want to let them in on anything, not yet.

So today I'm on a down note...but as the day goes on and as work gets busier, I'm sure those alternate endings will work their way to the front of my head. I hope my wife comes home in a good mood.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Something I thought I would mention about last night. My wife says "I hate myself. All I can do is be angry. I don't make anyone happy. When I stay home I am unhappy, when I go to work I am unhappy." A few nights before though she was happy, we had a good time. Yesterday, while she had the opportunity to leave the apartment and enjoy the good weather, she chose to stay and battle it out with her mother. Self-destructive? 

Her personality when out and about is very upbeat. At home it's another story. It wasn't always that way. She use to be upbeat coming home to. I tried to remember some of the things I would do for her before she came home, like preparing a meal or something nice. These don't seem to do much for her now. If she's not willing to help out the marriage all I can do is try to focus on my part and mistakes I've made...I just don't want to get hurt again and almost more than another EA, her just dragging this out until she finds a WAY OUT would be worse. Don't know why...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I wonder if some people start to feel something like "I just can't be bothered to care anymore" once their spouse seems to show zero effort in rebuilding the marriage. I know I have to be patient, but as I said in a previous post I'm doing what I can to make things at home better, giving her the opportunity to leave her work and focus on herself, if that's what she wants etc...without having a clear idea of what she wants I have little to go on for fixing us, but I can fix myself.

I started thinking again today about alternate endings. Catching her again, asking for all the paper work for our finances to be separate etc...finding someone who appreciates the newer me. I think I've bettered myself somewhat. I'm not 100 percent satisfied and I lack the patients on the inside, although on the outside you would never know. My friend mentioned to me that while I might not be patient in dealing with the situation at hand, I have been patient with many other things, including not killing the OM. A compliment I guess.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's a reason why you set a time limit on how long you will stand by a cheating spouse - if you sit back and watch them cheat, and abuse you, to fall out of love with them. So setting a time limit, 3 months, 6 months, a year, and say 'if she doesn't come back around in that time, I'm leaving' can preserve what love you have left, and also preserve YOUR sanity...something it seems you are rapidly approaching.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I am losing my sanity, no doubt about that.

My wife came home from work, nothing for her to do but sit back and have a glass of wine. We chatted for a while but got the feeling she wanted to get on her PC to do something and I had some stuff to do. We were chatting back and forth from one room to another. I was looking at a couple of apartments online and found 2 possible places that both my wife and I liked.

Then it came time to deal with her mother and it all went downhill from there. I listened to her complain not just about her mother but lots of things she 'couldn't do' and how she envy's 'this person for this' and 'that person for that' not appreciating what she has. I showed her a video I made of a recent friends wedding, a trailer of sorts, that got her a bit out of the bad mood.

Her mother is going to daycare tomorrow and my wife has a late shift which means we can be 'intimate' in the morning, if things go well. I'm not expecting anything but I had hoped that tonight would be a good night that led to a better tomorrow. Guess I was wrong...but then again tomorrow might be good...we'll see...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I get that she's not happy with her life but, honestly, that's either a selfish or an immature way of looking at life. Like "I just want fun. This isn't fun. I want something else."

Well, that's not what you get in real life. Maybe it's time you started pointing that out.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> I get that she's not happy with her life but, honestly, that's either a selfish or an immature way of looking at life. Like "I just want fun. This isn't fun. I want something else."
> 
> Well, that's not what you get in real life. Maybe it's time you started pointing that out.


I did point out all the good things we have in life but when I do she uses this "We can't compare our life to theirs." Which is being hypocritical since she's using other peoples situations to make her point.

A few years back, she would complain about how certain friends of ours were traveling, some single, some never to get married (Older and just not interested anymore), others young and with the opportunity to come back and have a family. I pointed out that SHE spent several years in the states and with her work was able to travel to many countries and experience many different things. She seems to forget this when she's complaining, but if I remind her she says "You don't understand my feelings." Instead, I would say "We can still travel, we just have to be a little more cautious about money. Besides, unlike them, you are married, can have a family, have stability at home." Her best friend is 44, lives at home, works 2 part-time jobs but quits every 6 months because of 'stress' spends all her money on clothes then decides it's time to go back to work. I ask "Are you jealous of that?" And with that she says I SHOULDN'T compare their situations. Then she went on last night about a friend of ours who is 28yrs old, been saving her money for a couple years, comes from a family that is well off (And she is a single child), who is planning to spend a year traveling around the world. My wife says she envies her...but how could she...my wife spent most of her early 20's doing just that. This friend is leaving her boyfriend behind expecting him to 'wait' for her which I don't see happening. So will it be worth the travels for a year to come home and not have her boyfriend waiting but come home to him having moved on. Maybe he will wait and she'll be very lucky...or maybe she'll find someone else along the way and he'll be the one dealing with hardships...

My wife likes to compare things when they play in her favor and she doesn't like it when they don't. Selfish? Oh yes...and she admits that her way of thinking can be selfish.

At the party we went to last weekend an elderly man sat at our table for a few minutes, 72 years old, still working as a truck driver, very nice man. He asked me why I wasn't eating because I looked like I was a big eater. I told him I was on a diet when in fact it was because the food being served is food I haven't eaten in over 2 months and I knew my stomach would turn inside out and I'd be in the toilet. He said to that "You should eat what you want, drink what you want and live happy. You may die tomorrow, that's life. Why die hungry and unsatisfied? You can die full and completely satisfied." He looked at my wife and said "Feed him, feed yourself. Enjoy life because you never know when it's all going to come to an end." While I might not share his enthusiasm as much as he did, I can see his point. My wife sat there and nodded in agreement, but then taking that and putting it into practice is another story.

Today started out OK. Because of my MIL we couldn't get intimate. Actually, we could have but my insisted on taking a shower and started getting ready for work. Oh well...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Saw the doctor yesterday about foreskin issues. Talked with my wife about it. She seems keen on me having it removed instead of me stretching it.

Last night she also said she would ask her friend, who lives in government housing, for information on it.

Her internet habits are frustrating me. I can hear her typing away sometimes but as I enter the room she switches pages. Tonight, I'll ask her if there's something she doesn't want me to see. In all likelihood she feels that I'd be invading her privacy...a penalty she has to pay for her actions but perhaps not one she understands well. The only males she's in contact with are ones a half a world away but it's still annoying me. I'm doing what I can fill her needs but I think she still has the addiction of getting some filled elsewhere.

Still haven't been able to get my hands on her cell phone. I may bring this up tonight in a conversation.

Again, a part of me feels as though she is waiting things out. We have a large bill that has to be paid in August, one that is on her credit card that she wouldn't be able to pay on her own. Since it is a bill that I am responsible for (She insisted I use her credit card so she could get points) I will have to pay it. Perhaps she's afraid to be left with the bill. She was stuck with several thousands of dollars worth of bills when she left her ex. and ended up with bad credit until she got married to me and had her name changed. She wouldn't be able to do a whole lot without a credit card.

I feel unloved and useless right now...as though I'm simply here to serve. When we move (Or if) our computers will be side by side.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hang in there. And if you see her actively doing 'affair' type stuff in front of you, you do have the right to ask her to leave the house if she is going to do that. Remember, she needs you to be strong right now. In fact, part of the reason she's not into you so much is you are so safe and tame. She thinks of what everyone else 'gets' to do, and she compares it boring, predictable life with you. Maybe you can spice it up some. 

Once, my husband arranged for a place where you get double massages at this beautiful place in the woods; after the massages, you can take a shower in a communal shower, and then they leave the house alone to you with a fireplace, fruit, champagne, and a jacuzzi outside. He picked me up from work, had my swimsuit and clothes already packed, and just took me there. Mystery is good.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Again, a part of me feels as though she is waiting things out. We have a large bill that has to be paid in August, one that is on her credit card that she wouldn't be able to pay on her own. Since it is a bill that I am responsible for (She insisted I use her credit card so she could get points) I will have to pay it. Perhaps she's afraid to be left with the bill. She was stuck with several thousands of dollars worth of bills when she left her ex. and ended up with bad credit until she got married to me and had her name changed. She wouldn't be able to do a whole lot without a credit card.


Your name on that card?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Your name on that card?


Nope, but it was my purchase. I bought a 5000 USD camera. Regardless of what SHE might have done, I made the choice to buy it. On her CC or mine, it's something I wanted so I would have to pay for it regardless of how things ended up. I don't know if that's 'wrong'. I would expect the same thing if I left someone and they had debt on my CC bill. Just my honest opinion


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Very true - but if she is waiting for you to pay that off before she leaves, doesn't this open up opportunities for you to grow and show her what she will be missing?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

That's what I am trying to do...I think...

Last night she came home and was very receptive to my advances. This morning too...unfortunately my alarm clock didn't go off so we didn't have time for sex but I could see that the potential was there.

I think her shift in attitude also has something to do with her now ovulating. She was talking about kids today, about moving and what we should prepare for.

I'm still in the process of becoming a better man/husband. Hopefully she sees it as a good thing and will stick around even after the bill is paid.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Another weird day...

It started off quite nice...I thought my wife was 'in the mood' but since things started too late in the day nothing happened. I'm on fertility meds that make me feel a little more in the mood when I take them.

Today she had a late shift but she didn't start coming home till about 1.5 hours later. She called, with no reason for why she was late, and said she was on her way home. I wasn't happy but didn't let on, or so I thought. My wife asked "Are you OK?"...well of course I'm NOT OK...we have trust issues and you're coming home 1.5 hours late and without a reason. I didn't say that of course, but I was thinking it as I answered "I'm fine. Just a long day."

15 minutes later I get a text message but I didn't check it right away. I thought it was my wife explaining why she was late and was in a 'don't give a sh*t mood'...30 minutes later I check it and it says "I was 'day dreaming' and went by our station. I'm at <station name> and I'll be home soon." I've done that before...but not in a long time. 

So she got home and I guess she knew that she had not made me happy. Normally I move into the kitchen from the PC room to join her for a glass of wine and a chat. She came right into the PC, dropped to the floor and was 'tired'. She got up quickly, got her glass and bottle of wine and came back to the PC room. We talked, and she said she had to work over-time. Finally, at least an attempt at reasoning why she was late.

When I looked over at her, laying on the cushions we have on the floor, she was looking sexy to me. Maybe it was the meds but my purple matter started to override my grey matter. I decided to lay down next to her and HOPE that something would get us going. She was hinting at being tired but I was getting turned on just looking at her. THEN she started to turn the conversation from NORMAL to MISERABLE. She was talking about how 'this person can do this, I envy her.' and about how I never had a bachelor party and I should, which came out of nowhere.

She then dozed off and I decided not to make any moves. If she was tired, better save it for tomorrow. I got her up and was going to bring her to the bedroom. We got as far as the kitchen before she started comparing her life to others again. I'll blame that on her being tired...and her speaking like that is why I'm not in the mood (It killed it for me.).

A few minutes later she was washing her face and apologized for being the way she was and that 'she'll be OK'. She asked me what my plans were for tomorrow. She has the day off and wants to take a look at government housing. A good thing.

An emotional need not being met on this side of the marriage is sexual desire. Because I've made some errors in judgment as far as timing goes, I feel like if I approach the subject of sex, having sex or just talking about it in any way that she feels that that is all I'm interested in. I'm not...but I am INTERESTED. I'm glad that we're moving forward in a positive direction (Looking at homes together tomorrow) but I'm upset that this emotional need is being shoved to the back of the room...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know, I really really think that this midlife crisis of hers is going to have to be addressed. How, I don't know. But it's affecting everything. IDK, maybe ask her if she needs to be 'set free' or something, to get it out of her system? I'm just rambling here, but what she is doing is basically having an Emotional Affair with 'the life I could have had' and if you don't address it, it WILL take over and have her rewriting your history even worse than she already is, to the point that she will NEVER be happy married to you.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

How do I set her free?

Today we woke up and got intimate. I now have a better idea of why the sex, upon penetration, hurts. That's going to have to be addressed. After that a nice talk and some breakfast together. She's getting ready to visit the nail salon. We were SUPPOSED to go to the real-estate agency for government housing but by the time I finish there's only about 30 minutes left. I told her I would cancel work since we don't get enough time to check these things out but she said "No. I can take a day-off next week and we can go." She then said "I'll see what time they close in town, it may be a bit later."

So, nail salon is more important right now but she's willing to take time off work next week on a day more convenient for me. No complain about anything this morning. About the only thing I was a bit disappointed in was that kids are always something in 'talks' but when it comes time to get it on, it's always the 'pull out' method. Thinking about kids right now seems soon, but my wife is 40 and even if we did try this month, there's no guarantee. The last thing I need is her telling me "I wish we had tried sooner." If things ever get 'too late' to try.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Still feeling distance...

I went to work and on my break, I called up my wife and asked if she wanted to go to the Apple Store. I knew she was in town since she had called earlier to tell me she had finished at the nail salon.

After a while, a little shopping and lots of questions to the Apple store guy, we started to walk home. I had to take a different way since I was stopping by work again.

A couple smiles and a couple laughs but overall, distant in feeling. I think she enjoyed her day. She didn't spend all day at home which made things good for her. I wish she'd get out more.

The plan is for her to take a day off sometime next week so we can spend the DAY looking at apartments.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Both of you need to get out of that house. I have said it a few times. I will say it many more times. You can't just hang out at home! What does she keep saying about other peoples lives. Meet her after work and go out. Every night for a week!! I am not kidding. I am so frustrated with reading about her whining. But I can't blame. She looks at her life like she is stranded in a cabin by the north pole. Both of you need a break, Go for a boat ride for an evening ****tail. Attend a carnival or theme park. Go for a horse back ride. No more excuses. "Man up" on this. Show the girl a good time!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I take it you're in a city, given that you walk home (it takes us 10 minutes to DRIVE to the closest store!). So go online and look up your city, and google activities. Also Chamber of Commerce. Be creative. You should be able to find all kinds of things you guys can do. Start doing at least ONE thing each week to spruce up your life, ok? Obviously, one of her top 5 Emotional Needs is recreation/enjoyment. So target that for a while. Bed & breakfast? Canoe trip? Hiking? Dance class? Find something!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I'm in a city in one of the most expensive countries in the world. I also live where there is no green...so outdoor activities are kind of a no go unless window shopping counts.

Our days are also based on being home at a certain time to take care of MIL. Yesterday, while shopping, I made sure everything was taken care of at home.

I suggested we stay at a nice hotel tonight. My MIL will be at day care and when she gets home I'll have enough time to give her dinner. We're then going to a party together. The party is downtown. I figured that we could leave the party and sleep in a nice BIG bed, have some alone time, have a nice breakfast together and be closer to work the next day. She said "I'd rather go home. If something happens at home and we're not there then all the good feelings I have from staying at the hotel will turn to guilt and feeling bad."

Next week, when we go looking at places, I'll trying asking her to walk with me. I'm looking at places OUTSIDE the city. There is more green and while the commute to work will be harder it's better than having your work place so close that you feel like you haven't really left. More families out there too.

A lot of her recreation is stuff like reading, listening to music and walking. She likes the 'alone' stuff. I've picked up the same book she's reading to give us more to talk about, listening to her music and trying to understand it. As for walking, we did that yesterday but walking in the city feels crazy...she doesn't like it much either.

Since the hotel idea was a bust, maybe we can walk home after the party. It'll be late, nobody around on the streets AND a good hour and a bit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Minor suggestion: Look into her guilt issue. Read up on Toxic Shame. Might be an issue for you two.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> Minor suggestion: Look into her guilt issue. Read up on Toxic Shame. Might be an issue for you two.


I will take a look. I know that in the past when I've tried doing something for my wife or my wife for me (or herself) and something goes wrong with her mother, like maybe she doesn't take her medicin or something, then my wife says to herself 'if I hadn't done THIS then THAT wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't feel guilty for now bringing BAD feelings into something that should be good.'
Yesterday we bought my wife a new pair of headphones for her ipod. They are 'fashionable' and because one of my hobbies is photography I thought maybe we could have some fun taking photos. When we got home though, she wasn't in the mood. After she seemed very interested in showing me 'Angels in America', a show I haven't watched yet. My wife hasn't either so I figured 'here's an opportunity'. After the first episode (she has them all recorded.) I got a little more comfortable. For some reason she thought I didn't like it...when I asked her what gave her that impression she answered "Because I don't think you like gay people." Which is irrelevant and NOT TRUE...I have no idea where that came from. We have friends who are gay...I've never said anything homophobic...ahhh...I just have no idea why she said it and it got me angry. Maybe it's her judging me?
Anyways, this morning she didn't have to geyt out of bed to deal with her mother and going to daycare. I took care of everything and before I left for work she was very appreciative, gave me a hug...the kiss is still too much like kissing a doll with lips that don't smooch unless I ASK...and she's been throwing me more "Love you"'s in talk and in her text messages. Makes things a bit easier to deal with on a day to day basis. She did give me a kiss in public yesterday when we parted ways...long time since that's happened. Maybe I'm expecting too much only 6 weeks since D-Day. I'm curious to see how she acta tonight at the farewell party. Her best friend knows about our situation. I still feel a bit like a fool on a stage where all my friends and co-workers are in the audience point and whispering to each other 'can you believe she cheated on him' while my wife is standing naked next to the OM holding his hand. Humiliating is the closest feeling I guess. I haven't told my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

An hour before the farewell party and already I'm in a bad mood. I sent my wife a text message with the days off I have available for looking at apartments. Since she had a half day work day I said I hope she had half the stress...tried to be nice. The reply I got was "I couldn't hang up the laundry" a clear message for me to do it before I leave the house for the party.

I'm angry at the fact that's all she could say but then I also got my mail from Mort which said "Email is for communicating information." So I pondered on that for a while. If it's only for information and not to be 'love love' about, then why are so many affairs happening via the internet? Via text messaging and email? I don't know what her break time was like, busy, with co-workers or maybe no real break at all...I expected more and if anything NOT what she wrote.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All I can say is have patience, but also SHOW her and TELL her what love would look like to you. Just like she doesn't know who you are (where did she get that), you have to communicate to know someone. No one reads minds.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

After D-Day I did TELL her what I thought remorse would look like if she wanted to get back with me and work with me. I told her to come on this board and check for herself. I asked her to read up when she could to understand not just my side but her side a little better. Some of the things she does FEELS as though she's pushing it from a book or something. 

Tonight we went out. When I said "I'm going home." She followed. I wasn't going to TELL her "Come home with me." I was just putting it out there and she followed. I had a friend who is 'in the loop' who was planning on staying out all night which had me feeling 'if I'm not out at least he is.' he is very biased to my side, not the best advice coming from him but at least I feel like some understands.

We came home, I gave her a quick foot massage and she dozed off. We both felt a little sick from the food. She's in dream land and I'm here. My idea of 'walking home' never even surfaced. I was in a 'WTF' kind of mood. Now, home, with her asleep, I don't feel so bad. Her friend said (While she was pretty drunk) "I know I always side with your wife in every day conversation but I want you to know that whether you are together or apart, I consider you a friend." I asked my wife about this on the way home in the taxi. She says she has no idea but figured that I was 'feeling bad' at some point. Actually, I wasn't feeling bad at any time. I was being normal, confident and 'as usual' IMO. The whole way home she tried to explain WHY her friend might have said what she said. Doesn't really matter at this point. I actually felt bad because at the party there were plenty of pretty girls and I kept picturing myself next to one of them...maybe it's just a bad day with 2 or 3 too many beers in me.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I'm wondering how important texting and email are. I didn't get any text message from my wife today...kinda hoped for a 'thank you' for last nights foot massage. I didn't...not yet. I checked facebook from my phone and saw she commented on a couple of peoples statuses...and though 'couldn't she have sent something'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have GOT to stop obsessing about what she does. It is not healthy and it is not productive. All you can change is yourself. If you change yourself, you can make yourself look more attractive to her so she gravitates to you. Just like she gravitated away from you. 

We do what makes us feel good and we avoid what makes us feel bad. You have to become what makes her feel good. And then hope it 'works.' The big secret is that in the meantime, you feel better about yourself, no matter WHAT she does.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I understand what you're saying, I'm doing my best at working on me. The image of her and the OM are still seared into my brain and my mind is still messing with me trying to get at what she must have been feeling and WOULD have been feel had I NOT caught her right before it turned to sex. And it's a hell of an emotion to deal with.

Even while I'm working, it pops into my head every few minutes...a picture here, a word there, a whole scene if I have even 2 or 3 minutes to spare.

I've taken care of business on my end as best I can in getting rid of love busters. Now it's just being patient. I hate feeling like it's possible that all this patience is just her way of keeping me at bay while she has some fun. I don't want to give up but more and more I think more and more I wonder if I deserve better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you seeing a therapist to deal with it all?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> Are you seeing a therapist to deal with it all?


Unfortunately, no. I live in a part of the world where marriages AREN'T suppose to end in divorce and therefore there is ZERO counseling available...for marriages that is.

I have been to see a psychologist about depression and he's given me some pills. The knock me out at night but if I take them during the day I wouldn't be able to function. I asked him to look for marriage counseling or a therapist and he said "We have counseling but it's 'general' counseling. I don't know that it would apply to your situation since this would be the first time the counselors at my office would be talking about marriage and how to deal with the problems. You can give it a shot though." Not exactly what I was looking for.

The emotional issues I'm battling on the inside (Doing my best not to show them on the outside) is not easy. I wish I had a certified therapist to help me along the way but I don't. I rely heavily on what I read here and elsewhere but even then it's doesn't always stick.

Last night my wife and I enjoyed some wine and watched more of "Angels in America". After that I took her to bed since she was tired, gave her a nice massage which she appreciated. This morning she woke up a little later than usual. She was in too much of a rush to deal with anything her mother could throw at her and I was there to deflect anything. Now she's at work and I've got about 4 hours before I need to be at work.

One of the companies I work for asked me to go to another city for the day next week for work. I said yes of course. It would be a 'go there, work, come back' kind of deal. My wife was saying "Why don't you stay there. Spend the night?" For several reasons really, even if I wanted to stay I couldn't. I have work the next day and being so far away would make it impossible to get to work on time. Then there's the 'trust' issue I have right now. I can't control her but I wish she could 'think before she speaks' and really try to understand what she's saying before verbalizing it. That's what I've done and it's kept me from having any fights with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're making good progress, but I have an inkling, something bothering me, that I can't quite place. It feels like you keep talking about what you do for her - massages, etc. - and I may be way off, or not remember correctly, but it looks like you are doing a LOT of kissing up to her. What do you think?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> You're making good progress, but I have an inkling, something bothering me, that I can't quite place. It feels like you keep talking about what you do for her - massages, etc. - and I may be way off, or not remember correctly, but it looks like you are doing a LOT of kissing up to her. What do you think?


I'm trying to do some of the things I did for her long ago. One thing she loved was foot massages before she goes to sleep. The rest of the day I'm pretty much just doing what I should have been doing a long time ago, the part that HAD to change in me. The massages before bed are because I know she's on her feet and at that time of the month she's always got pain on her right side. She's given me a million massages and it's been some time since I've ever returned the favor.

Not sure if that would be classed as kissing up...just trying to re-connect with something we had. She still likes the massages so that's a plus. VERY early on just after the EA I tried some very desperate things, things I did before that were always a little over-the-top romantic that DID work BACK THEN. Not so much right now, so I'm staying away from those for the time being. With a massage, she feels good going to sleep and hopefully wakes up a little happier. I feel good too, putting my wife to bed knowing she's off in dream land. Makes me feel good, even if only until I fall asleep.

What's the difference between kissing up and doing the things that you think made her like you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Probably the frequency. I know that if I pull away mentally from my DH and tell him I'm not sure if I want him, and if he were to suddenly be giving me massages every day, buying my favorite food every other day, telling me he loves me, all that jazz...and yet ignored the real problems I have with him...I would be mad! Definitely pull away from him more. It would seem like an onslaught of attention, a quick-fix solution that he thinks is all he has to do. Would not work. The only thing that would work in my situation would be for him to acknowledge what upsets me and FIX it. None of the attention, which would actually just aggravate me.

Only you know if you are pouring it on too thick.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Bills...freaking bills....really??

Well, I felt sort of OK today. I went about my day same as usual. The day was actually sunny so I asked my wife about the clothes left to soak in the laundry machine and about putting them out (In a text message) She called me back, thanked me for the text and told me I could push the button with a certain character on it that would drain the water...blah blah...

So just a few minutes ago, after finishing a nice HBO drama with her, one with a good ending in that it wasn't perfect but had meaning, we had a little chat about little nothings. Then she went online to order a couple of wine glasses that weren't so expensive because they had slight flaws in them...afterward I simply asked "Do you need a new mouse pad?" Because she was banging away at her mouse for not moving. She said "I'm not comfortable spending money until we get through August (that's when a big bill comes for something I bought)." The thing is, I know that we're fine. Even if I were to cut back on work by HALF we'd still be fine. I have enough in my 'home in the west' account that we'd be fine, I have enough cash in the house 'secret box' that we'd be fine (And that she knows about). So why all of a sudden this worry about money? She said "If we move we have to think about 'this' and 'that' as far as money goes." Even if we didn't have ANY money I have some great friends who have already offered financial support to get us out of here. I told her, indirectly, that I can handle the money end of moving without a problem. She then said "Yeah, but if we move out 'there' we have to think about transportation money." I answered "Well, better to a pay a little to be somewhere away from the city, green and a 'family town' than here, right...It would be better than here, I'm sure." She kind of shrugged, not sure if she agreed or disagreed.

I didn't let on that this attitude bothered me. I guess I'm waiting to see what she might do when the 'bill' has been paid. Her ordering wine and wine glasses online doesn't really add to the 'savings'...I have been CHEAP. I haven't bought anything to support my hobbies or anything personal at all. I've looked, I've talked and if I wasn't thinking about moving and that our relationship needed this move I probably would've bought something nice for myself and my wife as a reward for working so hard. I know my wife wants an iphone or an ipad...I'd love one too...but with her focused on cash I don't see that happening...or feel the need to actually buy ANYTHING. I've had the same notes in my wallet (Money) for the last month. Groceries are always on credit card...but I usually use cash for something...not the last month though. Not that it's bad to save, I just wish I could do something nice.

Why the sudden 'money' talk. I had a feeling that she might just be looking at paying this one bill...a feeling that once this is paid she's 'in the clear'...but that's me over-thinking again...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds like wifespeak for don't do nice things for me.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

A new day, a difficult day...

I had to take of my MIL today and she was being hard. I don't know that my wife fully appreciates this, but I can only hope so. My boss called me and asked if I would join the big event next month with one of the other companies we have a contract with. A few weeks ago I would've said no but today, I felt like I could leave the home and not feel crappy. Last night a friend got married and I was asked to join their after party...I was almost going to go but was actually tired. Next party/function I'm going and I'm going to have at least a little fun.

The work functions I'm not allowed to bring my wife (A cultural thing with co-workers and company parties). My wife isn't home yet but she sent a nice text message. Still got those images in my head of her and the OM for the past couple of days...bouts of rage...nothing I can do but work through it.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

My wife has the day off today and I had to work. Before leaving for work I asked her if she would like to go to the movies tonight. She texted me later with the time the movie would start. She was being really picky about money the other day but then decided that she'd get her hair done today, which is not cheap. Last night she was suggesting we get a new TV (I still don't have a flat screen) and because the new 3D screens are on sale in Japan, the NON 3D screens are even cheaper. A big screen TV is not that big of an investment but I said "Let's wait until we move." I'm hoping to find something tomorrow so that we can be out of here by September.

Still feeling distance between us, like I have to pick and choose my words. Sex is still a taboo topic to talk about. She was saying yesterday that "...many of my co-workers are into older men. Older men are charming, take their lady friends to nice restaurants and have a good time. Younger guys want to go to the cheap bars, loud and then to the hotel for sex...which is not so charming." I'm not sure if this was a hint at what I should NOT be expecting...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Went to the movies tonight with my wife, came home and watched a Christmas movie on TV that was quite funny. Tomorrow is really the day I'm looking forward to since it's the day we start looking at new places TOGETHER for the first time. I hope things go well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just remember to have a PostIt note in your head of any potential LBs and a list of her ENs - actively address that list while you're with her.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

So today we went looking at place and I think we've made a break through...I say I think because it's only been a day.

We looked at 2 different apartments FAR from where we are now and close to some of our other friends. It's greener, less pollution, and while the commute to work will take a bit longer there's definitely that mental separation from HERE. She was quite happy with both places and the only thing that's stopping us from moving into the apartment we think we'd choose of the 2 is that we have to wait 2 weeks before we can get a look inside. It's a new building, just 5 years old which means it should be nice and clean. We saw the layout of the place and it's a nice 100 square meter apartment with 2 balconies. 

The thing is, will this happiness last into the next couple of weeks?? That's what I'm hoping for.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Last night my wife spent most of her timing doing research online about the area we may move to. We see the inside of the apartment next week.

I sent her a message saying that I enjoyed apartment hunting and she responded that she was also happy and looked forward to starting a 'new life'. BUT added "I'm still worried about many things" she didn't end it that...she asked me how my day was, as it was a big day as far as work goes.

Today I woke up with some seriously stiff shoulders and she massaged them with some oil to help relieve the tension before my long day at work (Another one)...which is the first massage in a long time that she has given me. She said her worries were mostly money. I insured her that what I made supported our needs no problem, showed confidence, showed enthusiasm about have kids and she responded with comments about 'if I get pregnant then 'this' is close and we have 'that' nearby.

UNFORTUNATELY, I had a shot of anger on my way home. The image I have of catching my wife with the OM came crashing to the front of my head. I didn't see it coming. I have NO IDEA but it could have been that I went out of town for work today and the 3 young ladies I worked with admired my ability (As far as work was concerned) and asked that I come back soon (Which is unlikely as my company isn't too keen on paying me to go out there every weekend. Their boss did report back to my boss saying "Everyone was very happy with his work. He speaks the language so well we don't need to worry about a thing." My boss then called me to say thanks. I guess the admiration caught me off guard, something my wife hasn't shown for a long time. I'm in no way thinking about an EA or PA with ANYONE but it felt so good to be admired...and that's the only reason I can think of for those images coming full-speed to the front of my head.

Let's see what tomorrow brings...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Well the goodness didn't last...

I came home today to a rather happy wife but in the end she killed the mood with money talk. I'm all for making plans, making good financial decisions. Unfortunately, my wife looks at things from a very negative point of view, in that if we spend X amount of money to move the that's X amount we don't have to spend on other stuff. She knows we can't stay here, she knows we have to move SOMEWHERE, she knows we found the perfect place but she insists on being negative...at least today.

Since I'm paid in cash for some of my work, I opened up my bag and pulled out about 2000USD (Not something I should be carrying around really). This didn't put a dent in her attitude...why? That's 2000USD closer...that's 2000USD she didn't know we had...I was saving it thinking I would buy her a ring, but **** hit the fan.

More money is always coming in...we're not poor. I wish my wife would look at it from a positive point of view.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

An intimate morning....

Well, I woke up quite early having gone to bed quite early. Cuddled a bit. My wife asked "Is something wrong?" and I said "Nope, just a bit tired." She asked a couple of times...not sure why...maybe she was half sleeping. Then we got intimate and sex. After sex we talked about sex and what part of it is hurting her physically and what we could do to improve it. I'm very keen on making things better in bed but I want to MOVE our bed to the new apartment. Just thinking about moving makes me feel better.

She got up in a good mood, as she was getting ready we talked. I dozed off for a few minutes. I've got stiff shoulders and the bugs that come out in the summer start making some seriously awful noise outside.

Got up, took a shower and since my wife wanted to know whether we should watch "The Last Airbender" in 2D or 3D I did a quick check and told her "Apparently the movie is not so good and from what I can see people are saying if you do watch it then in 2D." We both wanted to see this movie. It was near the end of her getting ready that she decided to go online to order the tickets. She felt rushed. I told her "We can go another day, just get yourself ready for work." She insisted she HAD to do it. The late show was too late so she quickly asked "What about this movie." I said "Sure...that one has good reviews too." BUT when she checked to see what seats were available she couldn't get anything in the center...so she got them on the side and started her "If I had done this early we could've had better seats, I wouldn't be in a rush...ugh I hate this." That's how she left.

I sent a quick text that I knew she'd get on the train to work which basically said "I'm sure we'll enjoy the movie. Sorry you felt rushed. We'll stop making plans while you're getting ready for work. I know that's important time for you." She replied saying thanks you with heart marks...

Up, down, up...down...

Just get me out of this apartment...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I loved The Last Airbender.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Well we saw Inception instead and we enjoyed it. Before the movie we went looking at some furniture.

She told me yesterday "I should warn you, PMS has started." She was tired yesterday but we got through the day without incident. I asked her to go do something for herself today since I was at work and she had the day off. She didn't leave the apartment. She spent the whole day at her mother's beck and call. When I got home she was just tired.

The conversation went from light, to overly negative, back to nice...just all over the place. She asked me "Do you think we'll be able to start over with this move?" Asking about the move we 'plan' to make. I confidently said "Yes, I really do." She explained her worries, I listened. I think since I'm confident and not being argumentative that she's finding it hard to unleash any anger on me...she has someone that will listen. She did say she was still worried about us, but also said "It's just regular stuff I'm worried about, our health etc." The conversation would suddenly change to "When we move into the new place we'll get 'this'." To "I wonder what I should do about work, money talks." Just all over the place...but I held myself together.

Now she's in bed, she has an early shift tomorrow and her mother is off to day care. That gives me the entire day (With the exception of 2 hours) to myself. Not sure what to do....

I should add, as far as the money issues she brings up, I was telling her about how when I work out in 'that area' of town that I have 2 or 3 hour breaks where I have nothing to do and since there's nothing around I'm just 'stuck'...she responded with "That's why I think you should get an iPad." I don't know how someone who is worried about money could suddenly say I need something I DON'T NEED...but wouldn't mind having.

I feel like when I'm not riding my emotional rollercoaster that she's dragging me onto her and I'm trying to balance myself on both...


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Everything seems to be working out. Hold the line. You are actively doing things together. She is moving forward. You can live with these convoluted conversations. She is still foggy. Don;t worry. You are doing great. Try to get her out of the house again, away from MIL.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

This morning I woke up in a bit of a daze. I don't think I slept that well last night because of the humidity and the heat. When I did wake up my wife was on her way out to work. I normally take care of my MIL since I can take my time getting ready but she handled everything. I sent a quick text saying thanks. She wrote back asking if I could meet her on her lunch break and bring her cosmetics bag and eye meds. At lunch she said enthusiastically "I wish we could move today. I can't wait." And she made a list of the different items we'd need to buy since the apartment we have now came with some of the items and we'll have to leave them. She gave me all the electronics we'd need (My area of expertise) and said we could look at furniture together since that's her area...things ended with a smile...

Today, the rollercoaster is up...I hope it stays up through to the next week or so when the final decision has to be made on moving.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Long hard day at work and sick to boot...

Well, today was probably the hardest day at work I've had this year. I had to do a presentation which would make or break a big contract. I was completely focused, did a good job and my bosses are happy. We impressed them...

...then on my way home the images of the PA came to mind and I needed a drink. I'm not sure if it was the physical exhaustion that broke down my mental ability to deal with the images but I was sipping on a drink on the train (Legal in this country). By the time I got home I was out of my mind tired. My wife came home shortly after, she had texted me during the day to ask about the presentation, actually she called but I couldn't answer. When she got home she never bothered to ask about it and I was just not in any shape to sit down and communicate. I put my head down on the sofa for a few minutes and she was on her PC. When I got up, she stopped her typing and said "Just chatting with (Female friend)." I saw on my PC that only her and that friend were online so I'm 99 percent sure that's the truth...but that 1 percent is in a "I don't give a F**k mood...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

On her period and feeling depressed (We both are...)

Yesterday I gave my wife a massage (Foot massage) as she fell asleep. I'm good at foot massages and knowing that she wasn't feeling well I thought I would make going to be a bit more comfortable. She appreciated it and made that clear.

This morning she woke up way too early because of the heat, the crows and the bug bites that only she seems to get. She was up before 4am and tried to get back to sleep for a few hours but couldn't. She managed to get ready for work and was out the door before I even knew...the first time that's happened since d-day.

Afternoon came and she sent me a text saying that she's looking forward to moving but that she's on her period which means she's thinking too much in that she's being negative. She says "I'm still worried about us." She would later explain that she wondered if after we move that everything will go back to the way it was before...and I told her "No way. We're stepping forward. I have confidence in US."

Still, with my nerves racked and the heat unbearable, I started to get some serious cramps in my lower right abdomen. By about 6pm I had a high fever. 2 reasons this wasn't good...1 is that tomorrow I have an important (As in I can't call in sick) appointment. 2nd, although my health has not been an issue for some time now I do remember her saying back in June that she is constantly worried about my health. I didn't want to go to the hospital in case in was something BAD...and so I waited and waited...and it got worse and worse. Took some pills for the pain and the fever with no success. 

At one point I was sitting at the table and wanted to cry...I felt that crying would relieve the headache I was getting from the fever...but I couldn't bring myself to cry. I was sad, I thought about it and it has a lot to do with my wife not being as affectionate as I'd like. I know that it's that time of the month and I shouldn't be worried about everything she says or does, but it was one of those moments where I wish I could just hit a reset button and go back 10 years. I needed to cry, but I couldn't.

Finally, I decided I had enough time to get to the ER, see a doctor and get home before she got home. The doctor did a quick exam and told me that a part of my intestinal track was swollen due to stress and/or heat and cold (Hot outside, way too cold in most buildings with the air conditioning on. He put me on a nice IV with all sorts of good stuff in it that made me feel much better and brought the fever down to a point where I was comfortable mentally and physically to deal with whatever emotional needs my wife would bring home with her after a long day of work.

At first, everything seemed fine. I didn't mention my hospital visit. I didn't want to. Last thing I needed was more stress. As the conversation got to be more about her, she started talking negative. I would come back with a positive without negating her negative feeling, acknowledging that those feels are there for her.

One thing that's bothered me all week is that when I come home or she comes home I usually stop what I'm doing and sit with her in the kitchen. This is the time for us to communicate. She will usually start with "I just go home so you can do whatever you like." Code for: If you want to use your computer, go for it. But I'd rather see if you will stay here. AND I do stay. She'll usually say this a few times during our conversations. I always have something to say so I'm not lacking any fun topics...Part of me feels like she's thinking "I wanted more communication but damn. he's ready to chat it up every night. Now what do I do. I can't ask him to stop something I asked him for more of...and if I ask for less then..." I don't know what she's thinking.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ask her. Bring more conversations around to her and what's going on in her life. Keep relationship discussions to one hour a week, on a scheduled night. Make some plans to give her hope. Here's a list of ideas for things you can do together:
Read a book together
Take turns picking out a movie to watch
Bring out the board games, at least once a week
Start a solitaire club with some neighbors or friends, play solitaire against each other one night a week or month
Start gardening together
Grow herbs/vegetables/fruits
Take walks
Start a sport together; take classes at a community college, such as racquetball or volleyball
Get bikes and start riding bikes together
Sign up for an MS 150 and train for the bike ride all year
Plan some day trips, start taking one every month
Try out one new restaurant every week, take turns choosing and surprising the other with it
Go to bookstore and get a book like “52 great invitations to sex” in which you both have 26 invitations for a special evening to invite the other one, and you set it up, give the other the invitation (included in book) and then put on the evening
Join an online gaming community together (but don’t get addicted!)
Buy a Wii or Guitar Hero and play together
Give each other foot rubs
Take massage class together and practice giving each other massages
Go back to school together
Get a pet, take it to obedience school and learn to train it (if applicable)
Join a neighborhood dinner club or other club
Volunteer together
Join a church or get more involved in your church
Take a cooking class together and take turns cooking for each other
Go to HGTV.com and pick out a project to do for your house together
Take free classes at Home Depot on how to fix something at your house
Start a business together
Organize a block party
Organize a family reunion
Start working with a financial planner or learn about stocks together
Take dancing lessons together; if you like it, start entering in competitions
Go online for your city and look up 'activities' and 'family' and maybe even 'free' if your city is big enough; subscribe to those websites and go there every month to look for upcoming activities you can all do together; you can find plays, music events, art things, sports things, picnics, etc.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I would do everything on that list...my wife...not so much.

She's not a 'games' person, even if the games are really fun for most. In short, at this time in her life SHE feels she has no time for any of these things, just time to work, come home, rest go back to work. On her days off, until we move, she's busy figuring things out. Once we've moved and are settled, doing home projects would be a good way to do things together. We still live in a part of the country where there is no such thing as a front yard or back yard...gardening would be something we do on the balcony...

Hopefully, with the move we'll be able to take more walks together. While still very much city-like, it'll be a new area where neither of us has spent any time before. With 2 very good friends living nearby, couples night could be something we can get into...I just have to see how it goes.

When it comes to reassuring her that we're going to be OK, on the financial side of things, she knows how much I make and how high up in the company I am. We have no real issues there...but she still feels that 'money talks' and we don't have enough. Money is important one day and then not so much the next...I don't know what triggers these 2 very different ways of thinking. As far as US...I'm doing what I can NOW to show her that what I was BEFORE is not who I plan on being in our future. With that, only time will prove it to her. She hasn't put anything forward to show me that she is looking to change and while I've most certainly taking my share of the responsibility for the cracks in our marriage, I feel that she hasn't and has shown little sign on doing this. I can't change her, I can only hope she sees what she'll be missing if she doesn't change...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

So my wife is out...


She sent a text message that she was going to eat dinner with her bosses. She made it clear the day before (Yesterday) that is was with 3 female bosses. Do I believe her 100 percent. No. Do I think she's making any progress in regaining my trust? No. She asked me "Can we go window shopping after work tomorrow?" The first time in ages that she has suggested an activity we do together instead of me since I caught her in the middle of her PA. Why did she suddenly ask me? I have no idea. Is it because she's out and worried that I'm worried? I don't know. Maybe she's seeing the OM and just wants to keep me 'safe' from harm's way. I don't know...but a part of me doubts it...perhaps I'm being naive but at least if I were to know I'd be dead clear as to what I would do next. Being in limbo is worse than having no idea as to whether to set your sights on saving or ending the marriage. I've already decided that if something were to happen it would be over, regardless of what financial or emotional troubles it might cause. Worst case is I go home to a loving family in my home country and look for a new life there. 

Coping with infidelity is far more complicated than I ever imagined. When the Bible listed it's 10 commandments with infidelity in there I never really understood why...now I understand the pain that it comes with. Far more painful than death of a loved one...in part. I lost my father at 17, I moved on with the image of a great father in my mind. I spent more time and put more emotion into this life with my wife and it was torn from me harder than that of the pain I suffered from the death of my father. Maybe time healed that wound and so it seems more painful...maybe not...I don't know.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
Let me tell you what comes across from your posts. 
- Fear
- Anxiety
- A steady stream of ideas about what you have to "do" to make things better since she isn't trying to do anything to improve your situation

I bet you have a lot of great qualities. I am also almost certain that none of that matters if you are ultimately not able to get in control of your fear and anxiety and let her come to you.

SHE had the PA and yet you are the one who is frantically trying to fix the marriage. And she is NOT reacting well to this. It is very obvious that all this effort is not improving your situation. She is not making the effort to do things with you. She has a lot of complaints about you and very little remorse about her PA.

Do you think your behavior conveys the message: "I don't deserve you, so I will try extra hard to get you to love me?"

Because if it does, she likely thinks "He doesn't deserve me - I should try and upgrade to a better mate"




synonimous_anonymous said:


> So my wife is out...
> 
> 
> She sent a text message that she was going to eat dinner with her bosses. She made it clear the day before (Yesterday) that is was with 3 female bosses. Do I believe her 100 percent. No. Do I think she's making any progress in regaining my trust? No. She asked me "Can we go window shopping after work tomorrow?" The first time in ages that she has suggested an activity we do together instead of me since I caught her in the middle of her PA. Why did she suddenly ask me? I have no idea. Is it because she's out and worried that I'm worried? I don't know. Maybe she's seeing the OM and just wants to keep me 'safe' from harm's way. I don't know...but a part of me doubts it...perhaps I'm being naive but at least if I were to know I'd be dead clear as to what I would do next. Being in limbo is worse than having no idea as to whether to set your sights on saving or ending the marriage. I've already decided that if something were to happen it would be over, regardless of what financial or emotional troubles it might cause. Worst case is I go home to a loving family in my home country and look for a new life there.
> ...


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Funny that I have been thinking about that myself for the last couple of days. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife. Sin for the Covetor but not the Covetee? It has become more clear to me why this is one of the top 10. And one of the two dealing with family. I would view this commandment as a warning against infidelity's great danger and forbidden to whoever interferes with a marriage.
It is also apparent that from the gospel's language that the predator was the male seeking the unhappy spouse. Human nature revealed.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Fear, sure. I fear I've lost the woman I had so much passion for and love for. Anxiety, yup! Since the PA I have not had very much success in regaining her trust. She hasn't been open. In the beginning I made the mistake of trying to move past it and forgiving her before really resolving my issues. Do I think about what I should do...yup, for her, for me for us for the future. I include her in my thoughts. I have things I do to better myself that have nothing to do with her or OUR future as PARTNERS but as an individual...if those come across in my posts then you are reading them right...

Does she want to move onto a better mate. If she does, I hope she speaks up because I'm, at this point, 'OK' with it if that's what's going to make her happy, and in the end both of us happy. I don't like being dragged through the mud with my heart ripped from chest, but I have to put up with it to see what comes of it, or risk perhaps losing her when she really does still have love...crazy, maybe...hopeful,,,definitely, otherwise I'd be gone...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
It is not my intention to offend you. I post to help. I am confused by some of your post below. 

Why do you say "you have not had success in regaining HER trust?"

Is it not HER job to regain YOUR trust? 

As for fear and anxiety - perhaps I should have been more specific. Of course you feel that way. What I am saying is that you are "projecting" fear to her in a very pronounced manner and THAT is a huge turnoff for most women. If instead you projected confidence that no matter what happens you will end up doing fine, that is a turn on.

Is it possible that you two have a behavioral gender role reversal? She is MORE reserved, low affect than you are. You are more emotional, inclined to talk about how you feel than she is. If so, this is a male female role reversal that typically kills female passion. 

If you were able to be reserved, let her come to you at which point you behaved in a light hearted, fun/playful manner but did NOT get all lovey dovey with her. You would make some real progress. And if she isn't fuvking your brains out regularly, you need to find a way to LOWER the emotional temperature in the relationship by getting a LOT less loving and deprioritizing her until she feels like you are considering your other options. 




synonimous_anonymous said:


> Fear, sure. I fear I've lost the woman I had so much passion for and love for. Anxiety, yup! Since the PA I have not had very much success in regaining her trust. She hasn't been open. In the beginning I made the mistake of trying to move past it and forgiving her before really resolving my issues. Do I think about what I should do...yup, for her, for me for us for the future. I include her in my thoughts. I have things I do to better myself that have nothing to do with her or OUR future as PARTNERS but as an individual...if those come across in my posts then you are reading them right...
> 
> Does she want to move onto a better mate. If she does, I hope she speaks up because I'm, at this point, 'OK' with it if that's what's going to make her happy, and in the end both of us happy. I don't like being dragged through the mud with my heart ripped from chest, but I have to put up with it to see what comes of it, or risk perhaps losing her when she really does still have love...crazy, maybe...hopeful,,,definitely, otherwise I'd be gone...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

No offense taken...just saying what I feel.

As far as projecting the fear and anxiety, I'm pretty sure I have that under control. I didn't in the beginning but I do now. I show her very little of the scared boy I once was. I react differently to he when she makes certain comments that would otherwise illicit a reaction. I do my best to let her come to me and when she does come to me I am open to talk. She is no longer in a position to complain about me since I've killed most of what I THINK were love busters. She's had no reason to get upset with me and I can see this in the way she acts. 

When I talk about trust, it is HER regaining MY trust...not the other way around, sorry. Although I did/do have to prove to her that I'm a changed person, different than the person I was before all this happened, having corrected the mistakes I've made. This isn't a part-time thing and will show more with time. I wish she would put in the same amount of effort...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Breakthroughs of many kinds...

First was the overwhelming feeling of giving up and leaving...I felt I could move on without my wife and be somewhere new, which was scary and exciting at the same time. 

But then we went to the apartment we thought we could move to, saw the inside. It was really nice, really big and a beautiful view. It is definitely a place where things can start over. We're far away from the party town area we're in now. So that was also a breakthrough...

...then yesterday our dog died. He's been living the last 10 months with another relative. Probably due to heat exhaustion, but he was old, 17. That had my wife pretty upset for most of the day and today as well. I wish she were this upset when coming clean about her EA and PA.

Her attitude towards life in general really changes with her time of the month. Everything seems possible now. She's again asking me to get an iPad when just a week ago it was all about saving money for other stuff.

I wish there was a manual


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Great. Keep going. It is working. Stay positive.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Moving is hard work...

Today we settled on 3 choices for moving companies. Each will come at different times next Tuesday to tell us what they can offer. We are definitely out of this building August 25th. THANK GOD!! Now, where it goes from there, I don't know. We've been checking Ikea and other furniture stores online. I feel this need to leave EVERYTHING behind, all that we own so that things really are fresh.

Anyways, my wife's attitude has be 'up' the last couple of days. Her time of the month has passed which is one reason. The other, I think, is she's also starting to see change, which is good. A brighter, happier future, possibly.

Still, I was struck by an odd blow (Self inflicted really). A friend had asked for a favor with translating documents. Normally I charge for this but since it was a friend I told him he could pay for dinner and beers instead. However, when I got to the restaurant I had a sudden shot of memory from 2 months ago...d-day...it made me feel bad enough that after a quick bite to eat I got to translating and took a rain check on the beers.

When I got home my wife was busy looking online at different furniture. I still felt like crap...hope these feelings fade. I almost had a whole day last week where I DIDN'T think about the EA/PA


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Your doing great. The move is the best thing that you could have done. One month more in the old place. Now work as a team. She's your partner. Remember, enthusiastic agreement.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

I want my MIL out...

My mother-in-law does so much that makes my wife angry. She pushed the wrong buttons this morning, my wife tripped over a cord (Which was in a really bad place and her fault for having it there) and hit her chin right down the center on a box in the hallway. It looks like someone took a dull knife and cut from her chin down to her chest. She also banged up her knee. SO...needless to say she wasn't in the best of moods.

Being super busy today, I sent a text to her phone telling her what we should do to prevent the same thing from happening. Telling her we have something to look forward to. When I got home she was already in bed probably still angry about this morning.

Not being able to talk tonight had me thinking about d-day for some reason and this got me feeling like crap. I want to walk into my MIL's room and blame her for so much that has gone wrong in our marriage with all the pushing of buttons. A few days earlier our dog died. The dog lives with another relative but has been part of my wife's life for 17 years and part of her mother's life for almost 15 of those years (She bought the dog in the US when she was studying). When we got the news my wife was upset and we decided not to tell my MIL as it would cause her too much pain...but all I want to do now is cause that pain. Like a child that's been hit I want to hit back.

The fact that we are moving, that we've put down the deposit and hired the moving company is a great thing. What happens from there. We're living in a different place but what has really changed in our relationship. I know I've made changes. My wife has said that she's seen the changes...but I have not seen any in her. She says that she's 'thinking all the time' but how does that help our relationship when I see no actions behind her thoughts.

A few days ago she was very very happy and had bought me my birthday present (I caught her with the OM 2 days before my actual birthday so this was a belated present). While I was happy she was thinking of me the present itself was more for her than for me...it's hard to explain but it was kind of like getting socks for Christmas. You need socks...but for Christmas. You take them, you say thanks and you're grateful. The gift was far more expensive that socks but the thought behind the gift was the same...perhaps I'm being selfish.

The doctor told me that there was nothing I could do about my MIL's attitude. Her age is a contributing factor. However, she uses more than her age as an excuse for actions that people in the same position as her would never dream of using.

Tomorrow is another day...hope it starts off a bit better...


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

I would say that having your MIL out of your hame would be a very positive move. Can you talke to your wife about this? Rememner I mentioned an "in-law apartment". Any chance you can find her a small place near other seniors or an independent senior citizen residence near your new place? Are you going to save some money on the new rent? If you are, maybe you could spend that on some daycare support for MIL.
The biggest advantage with the move to a new place is that you will be away form the OM.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Not in the part of the world. Seniors homes just don't exist, at least not for middle class people. It is the custom of the people here to take care of the elderly. There are no homes like there are in the west, where seniors can live with others. If there was I would definitely be making suggestions.

Since d-day I've only every seen the OM once and he was quick to turn away from me and look in the other direction. I don't know about my wife and if she's bumped into him or not.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

So I spent most of the day getting the apartment ready for the movers' inspection. They are coming tomorrow (3 companies) to see what we have an give us an estimate on what it will cost to move.

By 10pm, after a couple of hours of house work and money-making work, I decided to take a shower and wait for my wife to come home. She sent me a text asking if it was OK to have a drink with her co-workers. All females, but still...why ask? If I say "No, I don't trust you." then of course she's going to come home pissed off OR go anyways and THEN come home pissed off. I saw the OM in front of the building having a beer and smoking a cigarette. That's the second time this week. He's the only person I know that drinks and smokes outside of the building...maybe in the hopes of meeting up with people, I don't know. I took the back entrance to avoid him...which is something I HATE. I know he's not going to try to try and talk with me and will turn his back to me to avoid eye contact...but ****...I've never had to avoid someone like the way I'm avoiding this person.

The farther I get away from d-day, the more time I have to think about things and re-play the situation in my head and what I SHOULD have done, the more I wish I could just break away from this reality and move on into another...maybe that's just today...I don't know...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

We went to Ikea and put down a good wad of cash for a new bed set and some other bedroom items....

So...as I was doing this I kept thinking to myself "We spend so much time sleeping, beds are important...but what about our sex life...I wonder how much it will improve?"

I still have this feeling inside that sex is not high on my wife's priority list. Because it's important to me I would hope it would BECOME important to her as well. A day still hasn't gone by that I've imagine her actually having sex and enjoying it with the OM...while they may not have been in 'the moment' had I been 2 minutes later (Upon catching them) I'm sure they would have been...and this is an issue that my wife has skipped. This is partially my fault for saying, the day after catching her, "If anything he's told me is different than what you say, say it now because after this I don't want to EVER talk about it again." This was a mistake on my part because there are times when I want to ask "Why do you think and say you wouldn't have gone through with it (Sex)?" How can you get naked with a man and NOT be expecting/wanting/desiring sex with that person...and why aren't you able to have that same desire for me, especially now that you are "trying" to repair OUR marriage? Sex in June was abundant...July was good...it's only 3 days into August but I'm still, if not more, emotional about the entire experience...I keep thinking "The OM saw this, he saw her body, he touched her here and there...where was his mouth." Things like that get caught in my head and even IF my wife initiated sex I'd be thinking this...

I wonder if I will ever truly be able to forgive and forget...forgive maybe, forget...that's something completely different


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

As long as you're improving your marriage, time will heal. You could end up with an even better marriage.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

I don't recall if you have read His Needs, Her Needs by Harley. It is likely sex is not high on her list. Have you identified her top needs?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> As long as you're improving your marriage, time will heal. You could end up with an even better marriage.


I really hope so...



iamnottheonlyone said:


> I don't recall if you have read His Needs, Her Needs by Harley. It is likely sex is not high on her list. Have you identified her top needs?


I have not read the book. She mentioned in the early stages of our problems after the EA/PA that we lacked any conversation (That's something I've admitted to and agree on) I do believe this is a top need of hers. As for other top needs, physical health, working harder around the house etc. are all areas I'm working on and will not be seen as 'permanent' changes until she's gotten used to the idea of me doing things. However, we're in month 3 and I'm still doing well, IMO. Yesterday she felt 'relieved' that we've managed to get past this big hurdle, one of a few big hurdles, to move. I guess I'm hoping her sex drive will pick up with a newer place.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Something has got me curious...

My wife works where she is not supposed to have a cell phone on her. The security for the company, keeping sensitive information in the building, is quite high. All employees have to use the see-through bags when carrying their stuff so that it's clear that they aren't sneaking information out.

Anyways, today my wife sent me a couple of texts around her break time...then she sent a couple of more asking me to call here and there for information on moving (Stuff we haven't quite figured out yet). I don't know how it is that she has her phone on her while she's working UNLESS she's not working...or she's found free time to go to the locker room or something...6 months ago I wouldn't have questioned it...since the EA/PA I am...I can ask her in an easy way (Non-confrontational) about how she's able to use the phone...but all she really has to do is lie and it'll be up to me to believe her or not.

Not having trust in such an important relationship is a pain...


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

It was her breaktime right. So don't worry. Things are going well. Work on that private time out of the house with her. I know you will be working on packing up but you have to make some time for you and her. Date night!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

3 weeks just doesn't come fast enough...

That's how long before we're out of this place and into our new place. My wife is excited and so am I. However, went PMS rolls around, just around the time we'll be moving, it'll be all financial stuff AGAIN right in the middle of a move when spending money is all you can do. I wanted to pack and move all our stuff on our own with the help of friends. It's the way I've always done it back home and I've moved plenty of times. She insists that it's best to go with a movers and the idea was appealing since all I would have to do is box things up. Then I just supervise as they load and unload...

The day before our move I have to go pick up the keys. The day of our move some of our new stuff comes: 2 plasma TV's, a washer/dryer, stove and refrigerator. The day after we move our new bed arrives (Finally, a big enough bed with a proper mattress that will be comfortable for us both) Our current bed is way too small and in this heat can get quite uncomfortable.

Since my wife wants to ditch a ton of our old furniture to make room for new furniture (I do to...it's not just her decision) we'll be spending the next couple of months living 'cheap' so we can pay for some new stuff. Ikea isn't expensive and that's where we'll get most of our furniture from.

Shopping together is fun and we've planned a few more trips to Ikea. Going there is a 'family' thing here. The restaurant area on the second floor serves beer and wine with some food that, well...it's Ikea food. The hotdogs are 1 dollar, so that's good. We've been a few times and enjoyed it. Hope we can find some other stuff to enjoy.

I'm still thinking about how I caught her, the feelings are still haunting me, the feelings are buried DEEP when she comes home (Projecting confidence). At night, as she goes to sleep I give her a food rub. She never says "No." But always asks "Why?" When I tell her that it's because the feet and the pressure points etc help relaxation and if you're able to sleep well then so can I...she starts to talk about the pressure points in her feet and make conversation...thing is, this conversation has been repeated time and time again. She asks me the same question and I give her the same answer...I don't know if she's expecting something different...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Going to the hospital...

I've been in the ER 3 times this week. First, from heat exhaustion and an apparent intestinal infection. Then I thought I was having a stroke...the doctor ruled it out and said it was stress. Yesterday I thought I was having a heart attack but again the doctor said it was stress. I went in for a complete physical to make sure this was the case and MRI, blood work, EKG, echo (Heart) and a whole slew of other tests showed that physically, I'm fine. The doctor recommended I tell my psychologist to do something with the meds I'm currently on to help control the anxiety. I have good times and bad...the last couple of days/week have been good in the real world...we have a new apartment we're going to be living in in 2 weeks, lots of packing and throwing away TONS of stuff we don't need to make room for some new stuff we've both wanted for a while. I won't have to worry about running into the OM and wanting to kill him (I still want to hurt him...I have a feeling once we're out of the apartment he's gonna talk about what happened...in which case I will have some anger issues to deal with since there are still friends of ours in the apartment.)

Yesterday, after a ****ty day at the hospital, I came home to find my mother-in-law had pushed the my wife's buttons again...and that stress was something I couldn't handle. I was quick to put them both in their respective corners. I'm so hoping that the next day care facility has more to offer my MIL so that she can be out of the apartment EVERYDAY for at least half the day instead of just 3 days a week.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

First, when you are under a lot of pressure, you often run on overdrive so that, once you HAVE settled things, you fall apart. It's said that workaholics often get sick on vacation because they stop working on 150%; that is VERY true of my husband; gets sick every vacation. Now that you're getting things fixed, your body is telling you how much stress you were under. Take care of yourself. Take a day off.

Second, are you in the States? I can't remember. If so, have you gone to United Way to see what they can do to help with your MIL?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

turnera said:


> First, when you are under a lot of pressure, you often run on overdrive so that, once you HAVE settled things, you fall apart. It's said that workaholics often get sick on vacation because they stop working on 150%; that is VERY true of my husband; gets sick every vacation. Now that you're getting things fixed, your body is telling you how much stress you were under. Take care of yourself. Take a day off.
> 
> Second, are you in the States? I can't remember. If so, have you gone to United Way to see what they can do to help with your MIL?


In Japan...there is nothing as far as elderly support in Japan otherwise she would not be with us in this apartment...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Almost 3 months since it all went down...

We've got half the apartment packed, new stuff ordered and waiting for us for when we arrive at our new place...my wife has been nice...and I can't seem to find the happiness in it all.

I still find myself catching them again, earlier or later 'what if' moments that never happened...how I SHOULD have done things differently and how I SHOULD not be thinking about these things and focusing on moving forward.

I haven't given my wife anything to complain about. I've given her my attention and have put 110 percent of myself into our marriage and myself...I just wish I were happier about it.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

A week away from moving...and we're both a bit excited...

...still, I see problems. Am I focusing too much on the negative? My wife really jumped out at her mother yesterday and I acted as referee. After she went to bed, I woke up hearing noise from the other room. My MIL had done something I KNEW would upset my wife when she woke up. There was no way I could cover things up (Not going to go into detail) at 5am when my wife woke up to use the toilet she saw my MIL and it was all downhill from there. Until my wife left for work at 11am I was on patrol trying to keep my wife positive...controlling the way things flowed through the house and I couldn't WAIT until she left.

I want to enjoy the fact my wife is home with me, but during this time of the month I don't. Today I manage to keep things under control with my MIL and so far it's all good..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe you need a new approach to all this. Is there any other family around who can come over for a visit so you can all sit down and talk about their relationship? It makes no difference if you move, if the problem just moves with you. Or is your MIL staying behind?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

She is coming and there is nobody else to take care of her. We are all she has.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

But is there anyone else who can at least sit down and talk to you three about the situation, so you can work out solutions for getting on better? Do you go to church, a pastor maybe? Some type of elder you both know? A mediator? Something has to change. And IMO, it needs to start with your wife's relationship with her mother. Get to the root of why she's so angry all the time. Communicate. Find solutions. Get your MIL on board. Do something!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

MIL is 78...age is a factor.

I've tried getting someone else involved...I've tried to get my MIL to see the damage she is causing her daughter. Sometimes she 'tries' for a few days, then goes right back to the way things are. She doesn't bother to stay on track...and when things get too much for HER she starts talking "I guess I shouldn't be alive anymore, I should just die then." And a part of me is saying "Please!"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What does your wife say? Why is she so mad at her mom?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

On the outside, she's mad at her mom for not doing things she's able to do. Her only responsibilities are to wake up, eat, take meds, exercise, rest. She fails to do most of these on her on and has to be told, even though she has reminders all day. It's not her health, it's her lack of effort. She wants everything done for her even if she doesn't say it. We had her walk to the kitchen to eat her meals as part of her exercise. She would say "That's fine." and then half way to the kitchen start moaning and complaining about how life is so hard on her. There are far too many small things that happen on a day to day basis to go into.

On the inside, my wife feels that had her mother and father done what almost every other family had done, pay their insurance, then things would be far better for everyone. Her parents didn't pay and with all that has happened to them she feels like she hasn't been able to live her own life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then I would say that it is your WIFE who needs counseling, to learn to accept the life she was given. Maybe have her read Kubler-Ross's Stages of Dying to understand the stages she has to go through, to accept the life she was given, instead of the life she wants. That is the first step you guys need to achieve.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

We have completed the move and no longer have anything to do with our old apartment as of today (I gave them the keys today). We're still unpacking and my MIL, although easier to handle with so much other stuff happening, is still getting in the way. The care center we've got an interview with is a "Christian" based company, something not often found in this part of the world. Hopefully they can offer more support.

The move isn't 100 percent complete. We still have to unpack a lot, get use to new train schedules etc...but it's nice being away from the other place...

One thing, an unfortunate thing, is I've had fantasies about being with other women and leaving my wife. I feel like after all this I deserve better...then, in the end I think "I might meet someone new and make the same mistakes all over again." I've made mistakes and I've owned up to them...I wish my wife would do the same. I'm not asking her to, she has to do it on her own terms. I think that a part of her wants to move away from that moment without owning up to it as much as I WOULD like her to...it's the emotional rollercoaster. Am I going to cheat...no...I don't have it in me, not now...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Her mentality is VERY common among cheaters.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

What a long day...and it didn't end on a good note...

We ordered a bunch of stuff from Ikea. One of the desks we put together ourselves (Her and I). Putting together furniture with your partner isn't always the best. When we finished, she found a scratch, which IMO isn't a big deal, but for her it is (Even though it's my PC desk). A screw also wouldn't go all the way in (I think the threads were stripped) and I could most definitely live without that one screw...the pain and hassle I'm going to have to go throw taking it all apart just to have to put it all back together again (They are sending us a new desk) is just not worth it to me.

SO...yesterday while she was at work I called a friend to help put together the bed and TV board. It took us the whole day. My wife came home, grateful for all the help. As soon as my friend left she went into 'inspection' mode and found a couple of scratches on the TV board/dresser...I don't know if we put them there or if that's how they came, but it certainly isn't something you notice unless you're really looking.

In short: I feel like all the work I did with my friend was under-appreciated. Not only that, but before heading to bed, as I was tired as hell, my wife 'told' me to make sure I rinse off my feet before entering the bathtub because apparently the 2 times I did use the bath, I managed to dirty it all up with whatever dirt was on my feet (It was already a bit dirty...and I would go as far as saying more on the side of clean than dirty)...then as I was headed to our new bed, she tried talking to me through the walls, and I of course can't hear a thing but I'm already laying down and trying to zone out...she walked to the bedroom and said "I'm not your mother, can you please put the garbage in the garbage." Referring to my popping a couple of sleeping pills out of their packages and leaving the packages (Pinky sized) on the counter as I drank the pills with water and tried to get a full second glass of water in before I slept (A simple "I just forgot" moment)...I could have brought up the fact that on occasion she forgets 'this' or 'that'...but I was too out of it. Now, having been up for a couple hours, she's at work and I'm taking a break from my work, I feel like crap...and I don't want to feel like crap...especially under-appreciated crap.

I know if I say "Well, those comments made me feel under-appreciated. Do you know how much work went into putting these together so you could come home and see some nice furniture setup?" She would go on the defensive and say she does appreciate it and that I just don't understand...so I'll skip that for now and just leave it at "I feel like crap"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow. I have going through this exact same thing from my husband the past few days. He can treat ME like crap, but he respects everyone else enough to NOT treat them like this.

You know the solution, right?

Tell her the TRUTH.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Last couple of days have been somewhat, numb.

She goes to work, I go to work. She comes home, I come home. We talk a bit but I have work I do from home as well. I try to get as much work done before she gets home or while she's doing her own thing. Unfortunately, I'm feeling an awkward distance...and I don't know if this is going to sound normal but it's almost like she's pulling me closer to her, or trying to, without the 'I'm sorry for all that pain I caused, I'm glad we're trying to work things out' and maybe that's partly why I'm feeling like I'm moving away...

I don't like that feeling, makes things feel hollow...still working on myself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IMO, more communication would help. Just start talking - about anything. Turn off the tv, play board games, talk about your day or politics or global warming. Just start talking.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Yesterday I was in a bad mood. I didn't know how to bring up the fact she still had pictures on her ipod of the OM. The pictures were not of just him but group shots.

What happened was I decided to put a couple of albums of music on her Mac. When I did this, already open was her iphoto folder with the OM's picture right there in the middle of them all. I told her I put music on her Mac and she can select the music she likes and the ones she doesn't.

I then left for work and when she came home, she either realized it or didn't but knew something was wrong. I still didn't feel brave enough to put it out there and just ask if it was a mistake or not. If she realizes that I know and that it hurt...and I know what I have to do (I have to confront her in a non-controlling way) but right now, I feel like I'm just going to be rocking the boat. In my head I kind of hope she 'realizes' on her own.

She called me this afternoon and asked how I was doing. She tried to poke at what might be wrong but I didn't want this conversation to happen over the phone. I decided to blame work and I'm sure she didn't buy it.

THIS then leads to my next issue of the day: My wife was showing concern for my feelings and said "I don't want to push you but I'm ovulating pretty soon, we should get a couple days in before and after" Basically, sex everyday for a week and a bit. That cheered me up a bit and I said I would look forward to tonight. My voice perked up a bit and I asked to look forward to it too...and then dropped "Maybe you could wear something sexy when I come home, just for some foreplay." I said it in a very non-controlling way (If that makes sense). I didn't say "You have to...or else" or anything near that, but the reaction I got was "See, that puts pressure on me..." and I quickly nipped it in the butt with "I'm fooling around, want to change the mood is all." Whether she bought that or not, I don't know.

You would think I was asking her to do something so God awful...all I asked for was something we HAVE done in the past as part of the foreplay, the fun that leads up to sex...and now it's suddenly 'not normal'. A couple years ago for my birthday we walked into an adult shop and bought her a very sexy outfit. We both had fun with that experience, both the buy, the wearing and the sex that followed. How is that not a nice thing to do anymore? I love foreplay...I thought ladies were also into foreplay...I thought it made for much better sex...but maybe I'm mistaken...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why are you always walking on eggshells with your wife? 

Lets face it - she likely knows you found the photos. She was trying to be nice. You made a totally harmless request. Why is she always so irritable with you and why are you afraid to calmly stand your ground. 

For me - having W where a negligee would not be a good substitute for a conversation about her keeping photos of the OM on her ipod.




synonimous_anonymous said:


> Yesterday I was in a bad mood. I didn't know how to bring up the fact she still had pictures on her ipod of the OM. The pictures were not of just him but group shots.
> 
> What happened was I decided to put a couple of albums of music on her Mac. When I did this, already open was her iphoto folder with the OM's picture right there in the middle of them all. I told her I put music on her Mac and she can select the music she likes and the ones she doesn't.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I just have to ask, what kind of marriage are you building where you can't be honest? IMO, that is leading down the same path that lead to the affair in the first place. Be honest or get out. She has to take you pain and all.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

3 days ago we started trying for the baby. Unfortunately, there were issues that led to the love-making being put on hold. Moisture issues. So the next day we tried some watered down oil. Everything went well. We were both happier. Yesterday, I came home late from work and she was already asleep. No attempt made.

Today, the day before she starts ovulating, I figure we'd watch a movie, get in the mood, etc. As we get into bed she starts complaining. Her complain was preceded with a disclaimer of "I'm not complaining but..." and of all things, it was about mileage points I didn't apply for when I went home almost 3 years ago...after an hour of that she talked herself to sleep.

I really don't know what I'm doing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you try to steer her back to the plan?


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

When she started complaining that was an instant turn off for me. It's happened before. We've made a sort of date night, things go well, we watch a movie, have some wine...then somewhere between that and having sex, something bothers her and she goes on a rant. This time, it was mileage points. We're talking about me not getting the points for a single trip we took years ago and her constantly asking "Why did you say you didn't need the points. It was easy to make a card..." I gave her the best reason I could "I was probably too excited that we were going home after 6 years."

If my wife starts to argue, complain or moan about something, right before sex, I'm out. I use to be OK...a kind of 'get by the talk and eventually we'll start.' and most of those times (Although not every time) ended with us having sex, good sex. On occasion, I would just give up and say "Maybe tomorrow, when we're both feeling better." I sugar coated it.

BUT TODAY...she did it again. She called at lunch, apologized for her attitude, said we're on for tonight. I took care of her mother, went to work, took care of her mother some more. When my wife got home all she had to do was relax a little. I had some work that I needed to finish up so I set up a bottle of wine and a current TV program she is watching on DVD. No cleaning, no need to cook...nothing. As I was wrapping up work, I noticed there was little noise coming from the living room. My wife was having a fit with our new Blu-ray player. We've only had it a couple of weeks and it's kind of messed up a few of our channels etc. Not really a big deal seeing as how little TV time we actually have. I told her I would figure it out but she was just upset as ****. She wasn't even watching TV, she was watching a DVD. She kept saying "Worst case, we need a different player." She was talking like it was the end of the world. It's not PMS, she's ovulating.

Eventually, I got her to forget about the Blu-ray and told her to lay down. I tried to calm her down but she went down her same pessimistic road, comparing her life and age without kids to those with kids. How she envies my job but hates hers. Then she tried to put me on the defensive saying "Yesterday you asked me to wear something sexy, and I didn't. I feel bad." I didn't ask her yesterday, I asked her a few days back and quickly retracted the remark with "It's just an idea, nothing is set in stone." And she insists that I've mistaken the days but WTF cares...I've said it to her time and time again, if you're not into it and you do it because you feel you have to, I'm not going to enjoy it anymore than you are. 

Needless to say, we didn't have sex tonight either and her closing comments were "We failed again." since today, on her calendar, is the best day. I said "No we didn't." And I wanted to following up with "...YOU failed today, I was completely into it." I may have failed to recognize some signs...I don't know. And she kept circling around to the same things, the same pessimistic opinions...I started to daze off. She had her eyes closed as she talked and I DIDN'T listen because it was like a broken record. I knew what she was going to say before she said it...and I could guarantee that I would hear it again in a few minutes.

Am I angry, yep. Did I do something wrong. Maybe...someone please give me a roadmap here if I did. I listened until it became unbearable...a few hours worth. I never replied with any sort of confrontation in my voice, I simply voiced that I understand that that's how she feels. She's in dream land now and I'm hear, literally thinking about how to divorce without feeling guilty. I don't know if I want a divorce or children with this woman. When things are good, they are great...when they go back, I get all panicy, anxiety, feeling like 'is it always gonna be this way' because it wasn't before.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're doing nothing wrong. Your wife has some issues, and she needs to deal with them. Frankly, I'd worry about bringing a kid into your marriage. Your wife needs to find a counselor, and you need a marriage counselor. Have you tried the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires yet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, IMO, she is just turning into her mother. It's what we do. The only way I can see that stopping is if you put your foot down and tell her you can't stay married this way. Be the man of the house and expect some respect and Giving from her.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

I have to agree with Turn here, why woul dyou bring a child into a marriage that is so rocky and unstable? Adding a baby never fixes a problem and often creates additional ones. IF you were both stable and able to work through issues, it woul dbe one thing but in your current situation, I realy think you are going to create a huge isue in the long run.

Q~


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Well it was all about money today. A lot of the part-time gigs I do I get paid in cash. The envelopes go into my bag and I carry it around. The envelopes build up over the weeks and when it comes time to pay some bills I don't need to dip into my bank account, just count out some from the envelopes. Not a big deal.

I told my wife if she needed cash, she could always go into my bag. Just let me know that some was taken so I don't think I lost some somewhere...seems reasonable. Today she sent me a message saying she took THE money...so I wanted to clarify if she meant all of it or some to pay bills. From that she figured I was being 'protective' over 'my money'. Which wasn't the case. In conversation I said "Let's not talk money over email anymore." She didn't want to stop there, she wanted to argue her point. I wouldn't hear her this time and said that I just don't want to talk finances over email anymore. I said that it can be blamed on simply misunderstanding what I wrote or me not being clear enough as to what I meant. She's pouting (Although she won't admit that's what she's doing) and I'm getting ready for bed. I have a long day ahead of me and I'm getting the start of a bad cold. Things suck...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This might be a good time to practice enforcing your boundaries; you already started well, just stand firm.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
I am going to preface this with: I would take you as a son in law in a heartbeat. And I have high standards. You are truly a good guy. So take this in that spirit.

This isn't temporary. She is routinely irritable BECAUSE the day to day with you just doesn't make her happy. This isn't your fault. It simply "IS". Classic example: She was having a bad day and beat on you for not getting frequent flyer miles on a trip 2 YEARS ago. 

Don't you see the irony here? She offers no statute of limitations on a minor mistake that is really old and that she has clearly rubbed in your face many times. And yet she recently had an affair which you have basically forgiven her for. Frequent flyer miles worth maybe a few hundred dollars on one side of the scale - and a TWO year old offence to boot. A recent affair on the other end of the scale. Hmmm. 

PLUS you work WAY more hours than a normal guy so she can have a nice life. How about her THANKING you for all that extra work instead of abusing you for a forgetful moment long in the past?

SA - all I can say is that on the spectrum of madness:
- Staying with her is miserable but sort of understandable as you love her
- Having a kid with her qualifies you for being hospitalized for truly losing your grasp of reality

This is a woman who is not grateful for all the amazingly supportive stuff you do for her mother. She takes ALL your loose cash and then gives you an attitude. She is constantly stressed, angry and mean to you. And now you want to add a BABY into this mix? Seriously? Why?




turnera said:


> This might be a good time to practice enforcing your boundaries; you already started well, just stand firm.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

I am leaning more and more towards MEM's way of thinking. Yes, you might not have met all her needs, but your failure to meet those needs was not what "drove" her to an affair. It is just the was she is. My gut tells me she would treat any man she lived with the same way. She isn't a happy person. And it is not your fault that she is unhappy. You can't make her happy. Now you are not beating yourself up any more. You know in your mind and in your heart that you have been doing the right thing. 
This money issue is a fog issue. Do you have other joint accounts? Do you get to take her money when ever you want? Seems like it is a control issue that is being fabricated to create a reason to be mean to you. Maybe it is time to sit down and have another relationship conversation. You seem very strong and confident right now. If you decide to do that you need to prepare yourself with your specific topics and be prepared to mostly listen.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

Last night was another WTF. A few days back she 'forgot' to tell me she had dinner with co-workers. Fine. She finishes at 6pm I don't finish work until 9pm so she would probably be finished by the time I get off work. That wasn't the case. She took the last train home. She didn't call to say she would be late or give a reason why she was late. Her lips were purple (She'd been drinking wine, something she enjoys). She gave a quick apology for being late, went straight to the bed, sighed and said "What a long day." And she went to sleep. All the while, in my head I'm thinking "Don't you realize that you've gained very little of the trust we use to have and that your actions tonight didn't help." She was home, she was safe. Nothing I could do. Had I complained she would have offered to call co-workers etc. The next day she may have read my attitude well enough to know that something wasn't right. Apparently she was late because her boss had gotten drunk, fallen over and scratched up her arm. She made sure she got on the right train home. Again, I'm thinking "Why not call and tell me." From experience, I know what would follow, her offering up alibis all the while being angry that I don't trust her. I've got 3 big projects due this week that I'm not about to sacrifice in order to fight. I kind of felt "If she messed up, at least it would be easy to walk away." A weird way to think...

Now here comes the messed up part (Not that that wasn't messed up in itself): Last night I got in trouble for being home late. Here's what happened. Days before I had informed my wife that on Sunday I would be having dinner and drinks with a host of companies that I work with. It's part of the social practice of the country, it's business. At work I had an unfortunate accident where I was put in a position where I may or may not have to apologize for it. I was a bit stressed, I figured I would email my wife. None of my co-workers speak English and part of getting through some of the stress is being able to express myself in my own language. It wasn't a long text just "I made a mistake and I'm just waiting around to see what happens. The manager doesn't think it'll be an issue but I'm a bit stressed. Wish me luck." To which she replied "Wish you lots of luck."

After work, after the incident was settled and no apologies necessary, it was a relief. Off to the social event. Around 9pm my wife called my phone but I didn't answer. It was on silent. No phones during these events. She sent me a text saying she was worried. Again, I didn't realize this until after. As soon as I realized, I excused myself from the gathering, made a call and explained that I was where I said I would be. However, this WASN'T good enough. Apparently I put her on edge with my email and when I didn't pick up my phone she got worried. She went on to say all the things she "had to do" in my absence along with worrying. I told her not to worry and that I was almost on my way home. She tried to really push HER feelings on the issue. Needless to say, I had a few hard drinks before leaving, got home, was not in a position to communicate (I would have said some horrible things). Again, she may have read me well enough to know I wasn't happy with how things went. She left me alone. I went to bed early. She tried to cuddle in the morning but I just COULDN'T do it...I was just NOT HAPPY.

I love her, she has her faults, she needs to work on herself. Time is of the essence as far as her having a family. Unfortunately, she's making all these choices, the regretting them, then being miserable, then finding more stuff to be miserable about. I've thought "What if I just said 'game over', give me my share of the leftover bills and I will pay what is mine you what is yours and can go live your life while I live mine." I could see myself alone, at home, enjoying TV and no one to bother me.

The baby...for so long I pictured us being happy with a family. It's hard to let go of an image you've held onto for so long. I wish it were easier. I wish my head could take control of my heart for a while.

Staying together...after watching her attempt to through herself of a ledge, was it just for show...90 percent of me says yes. She definitely isn't happy. She knows she's the person who controls that. She refuses to see a doctor, she refuses to let anyone help her and she refuses to help herself. I can't make those changes for her. I can support the changes she does try to make that would help her.

I've lost so much weight. I've lost so much sleep. I feel like everyday I'm losing time to be happy, or a close version of happy.

The last couple of days have just not been happy days...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I kind of felt "If she messed up, at least it would be easy to walk away." A weird way to think...


Two things. First, that is a sign that you are falling out of love for her. As is normal, considering that she has mental health issues; do some reading and you will realize that people like that will NEVER give you what you need in a marriage - it will ALWAYS be about them. ALWAYS. And if it isn't, they will MAKE it about them. Just like she did last night. SHE can have fun, be the center of attention, and she'll expect you to just accept it. But the minute you stop focusing on HER, she'll move heaven and earth to turn the focus back on her. As she did.

Do you honestly think you can live the rest of your life like this? 

I hope you don't.

She needs medical help, and you trying to meet her needs - at your OWN expense - only KEEPS her from seeing that, and getting the help.

Second, I realize you're grieving over the dream you had, but can you honestly say that raising a child in your situation is a good thing? Think of the child. Who almost surely will end up just like her/his mother, because kids soak up the more blatant examples their parents give - even the unhealthy ones. And you'll also almost surely end up divorced when you spiral down and have a nervous breakdown over trying to 'fix' her, and then that child will be split between the two of you - an even scarier scenario. And you'll still have this woman in your life forever, even divorced, because you have a child together.

I hope you find some friends and ask them for advice.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

turnera said:


> Two things. First, that is a sign that you are falling out of love for her. As is normal, considering that she has mental health issues; do some reading and you will realize that people like that will NEVER give you what you need in a marriage - it will ALWAYS be about them. ALWAYS. And if it isn't, they will MAKE it about them. Just like she did last night. SHE can have fun, be the center of attention, and she'll expect you to just accept it. But the minute you stop focusing on HER, she'll move heaven and earth to turn the focus back on her. As she did.
> 
> Do you honestly think you can live the rest of your life like this?
> 
> ...


Reckon it's codependency. SA's trying to change someone who will not change. Can spend a lifetime doing that and get absolutely nowhere with it.

Bob


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