# Advice please!!!



## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi, Im new to this forum and desperately in need of some advice. 
I am a husband of two years and a father of five years. Recently my wife has started her graduate work in school, this is very time consuming and important to us as family unit. This typicaly involves "working" the majority of the day, with some homework involved. She has also recently begun going to the gym 4-5/week. I hardly see her. maybe 3 hours a night. The combonation is starting to take a toll, as well as bring out the jealousy monster within me. I recently wrote her a letter explaining to her Im trying not to be jealous (of her situation) or overly paranoid, but I need some reassurance in our relationship. I figured she would be more attentive after my expressing this is what I needed/wanted, but I have yet to see it.

To this she tells me *its not you, its the kids*. I feel bad b/c she is being caught feeling like a bad mother for neglecting her home life...however passing mention was made to my needs for her attention. She said she could understand my position, but I dont think she really gets it. I am at home with the kids(currently laid off seasonal worker), doing housework, making sure there are nutritious meals made for everyone. I feel like she is emotionally distant and our sex life is near non-existant and routine when achieved. I can appreciate exhaustion, i feel it at the end of everyday, yuet I am still willing to try here. I just feel she has given up on us and is focusing on her career primarily, leaving us behind.

I love my wife to no end and I want her back. I simply dont know what to do. Am I overeacting or...?:scratchhead:


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

WOW! Ok, this is not meant as offensive, but welcome to the life of a stay at home mom. Seriously!

Here is one option... she goes to the gym right? Even if you just use a guest pass... find a gym that includes daycare and go with! That's a start... And keep in mind the work on a masters is temporary. And again.. welcome to our world.. and again, not meant as a dig... just hoping you see a realization there that so many of us women would LOVE to give the men in our lives!


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Im not entirely sure I am getting the just of your advice. Sorry, care to expand?

I would love to go with my wife to the gym, however it co$t$ and right now money is sort of tight. I dont see how that pertains to the majority of my concerns. Thats good advice but I need something more encompassing. And yes, I am a stay at home parent. However, I dont understand the "welcome to our world" aspect of your response. This is our world, as partners and parents regardless of sex.


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

My husband left a month ago. He was frustrated because I am working on my degree & he felt neglected. We have 3 kids, he felt he was doing everything. 

He probably felt a lot like you did I guess. Arrange a date night every week for you 2. Make the plans, dont just say you'll do it or try to arrange it together. But make sure its a night when you can both relax & spend time together.
Talk to each other. 
Buy her some flowers - doesnt have to be expensive, grocery store flowers will do the trick. Let her know you are thinking of her & appreciate what she is doing to make a better life for your family. She's not leaving you behind, she is doing this for you all.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

What I mean by welcome to our world is that you are describing the chief complaints of every stay at home mom I know. It's a club, we are just not yet used to male members 

As for the advice... do you have Work Out World? their rates are great, they have daycare... and like I said... guest passes... most gyms allow for free guests... BE ONE... or just ask your wife to forgo the gym at least one a week for an outing to the park, or a walk or a jog or something together... 

You have reversed the usual roles.... I think women are just more used to it? Sounds weird, but true. In most cases it is the women home saying all the same things you are saying... Yes... all the women cry out that "we are partners" and the men often reply.."But I am out working my butt off and deserve what I want" 

I know the work you are doing... BELIEVE me! And like women in the situation... you are seeking to find a way to meld your two roles/lives into a more shared experience. Like most women who are stay at home, it will end up on you to get into her life, then bring her back into yours. The gym is just the most obvious choice.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

I am sorry to hear about your hubby Babyheart . We do have a date night set however tonight its gym night, b/c the kids are at the babysitters. We'll have our date tonight, which will include her doing research (FB, IM, etc.) while I wait for a chance to steal her attention only to be dismissed. I will try to be more assertive tonight, but doubt it'll will make a difference.

I hear ya, on the shes doing it for us. Yet there is this feeling that once she is done, were done. I feel like she is preparing to move on (without us). I feel like this is a marriage of convience...for her.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

I dont really know what advice Im looking for here...but I appreciate the responses. My main concern is that the green eyed monster (jealousy) is rearing its ugly head and Im not entirely sure how to deal with that primarily. The rest of the advice is sound, but easier said than done. Do the members of this club also share my concerns, doubts, and worries? If so how do we overcome these unwanted emotions?

p.s how do I reply to individual response, so as to not to lose the continuity of the conversations?


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Hit "quote" then you can respond with the other person's post in yours  kinda like I just did  

Wish I had a magic solution but there is a reason so many women complain about a man's mistress being his work. (hence the welcome to the club) It's hard and jealousy does come up. She may not be used to being on the other side of the coin either and just not see what is happening. Just keep making it known that you need to be seen. I am trying to think here what I would respond to, but I have never been on THAT side... Even though I am actually in school right now too, I always ended up finding the time somewhere for him (never the other way around)



McKenzie said:


> I dont really know what advice Im looking for here...but I appreciate the responses. My main concern is that the green eyed monster (jealousy) is rearing its ugly head and Im not entirely sure how to deal with that primarily. The rest of the advice is sound, but easier said than done. Do the members of this club also share my concerns, doubts, and worries? If so how do we overcome these unwanted emotions?
> 
> p.s how do I reply to individual response, so as to not to lose the continuity of the conversations?


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

woodstock said:


> Hit "quote" then you can respond with the other person's post in yours  kinda like I just did
> 
> Wish I had a magic solution but there is a reason so many women complain about a man's mistress being his work. (hence the welcome to the club) It's hard and jealousy does come up. She may not be used to being on the other side of the coin either and just not see what is happening. Just keep making it known that you need to be seen. I am trying to think here what I would respond to, but I have never been on THAT side... Even though I am actually in school right now too, I always ended up finding the time somewhere for him (never the other way around)


Ok heres the "quote" reply;

I feel you on the work being the "mistress", I geuss my question is how to deal with jealousy. Or is there an other areas for questions regarding the subject? I dont want to spy and pry, I just want to do away with these feelings. Unfortantely, my wife has IMO everything made for her, and in turn doesnt feel like there is a need to be slightly gracious or attentive (but I dont want to play mind reader either). 

Thanks again for your input.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

You really need to take this to the ladies lounge or something. This sounds EXACTLY like a conversation I have had with my best GF over her husband's work ethic!

I am not sure how to deal with jealousy, that is not generally my personal issue. I am more about getting upset over a lack of respect or importance placed on myself and the relationship. For me, just the simple fone calls during the day and something to remind me that I was still part of his life, and thoughts during the day would have done SOOOOO much. I can't relate entirely to jealousy though


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

married&lovingit said:


> Welcome McKenzie!
> 
> While she's out 'bettering' herself, you need to work on bettering yourself also. Some may poo-poo the sex ranking that Atholk covers in his blog MarriedManSexLife, but IMO there's a lot of truth to what he discusses.
> 
> ...


Not quite sure what youre telling me with the link, I'll look further into it but non-monogomy is not what Im looking for.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

woodstock said:


> You really need to take this to the ladies lounge or something. This sounds EXACTLY like a conversation I have had with my best GF over her husband's work ethic!
> 
> I am not sure how to deal with jealousy, that is not generally my personal issue. I am more about getting upset over a lack of respect or importance placed on myself and the relationship. For me, just the simple fone calls during the day and something to remind me that I was still part of his life, and thoughts during the day would have done SOOOOO much. I can't relate entirely to jealousy though


Well I guess my idea of jealousy comes as you said "getting upset over a lack of respect or importance placed on myself and the relationship." That coupled with my paranoia.

After lunch I will try a post in the ladies lounge.Thanks.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

What exactly are you paranoid about? Another man? Her moving forward leaving you behind? Not being needed? or just being jealous that she has a life outside the house and you don't (it's OK to say that kids are great and I love them but.... I NEED TO GET OUT HAHA)

You have to figure out what your real problem with it all is. For myself, like I said, I just wanted to know that I crossed his mind from time to time, and knowing a fone call takes about 1 minute, to not even get THAT, near killed me.. and as a result him  .


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

woodstock said:


> WOW! Ok, this is not meant as offensive, but welcome to the life of a stay at home mom. Seriously!
> 
> Here is one option... she goes to the gym right? Even if you just use a guest pass... find a gym that includes daycare and go with! That's a start... And keep in mind the work on a masters is temporary. And again.. welcome to our world.. and again, not meant as a dig... just hoping you see a realization there that so many of us women would LOVE to give the men in our lives!


Well, he saying he still has energy after all the hard work it takes to be a stay at home dad.

most stay at home moms say just the opposite.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

heres a question ,what is she going to school for?

is it something she can earn money at or some field not worth a darn!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> Not quite sure what youre telling me with the link, I'll look further into it but non-monogomy is not what Im looking for.


Don't pay too much mind to the post you first see on there, there is some great stuff on there, just have a look around on it. Try the 10 second kiss.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Oh, believe me, if the man were willing to really give, the woman would have the energy to receive. The no energy bit is what comes from giving up because you been busting your butt trying to make it all work (without much help). Hell, I know women that work, go to school, are full time mom, clean the house AND do all the rest.... Why should it be amazing that a guy does it? Ever talk to a single mom? EEEEEP Talk about all the work it takes!!!!


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

My husband is finishing his PhD in Neurobiology. His schedule is very similar to your wives. His health is important to both of us, but at the moment his best option for maintaining it is a run in the morning, four times a week and good dietary habits. 

Her work is going to take a lot of understanding on your part, but also some bending on hers. Going to the gym for such a long time so many times a week WILL eventually harm your relationship. You need time together. I think asking her to cut the gym visits down to once a week and taking a run in the mornings is fair. 

Have you expressed to her that you need one on one time? She seems to always place her work ahead of family, and that is not fair to you. There isn't a need for her to check emails or facebook constantly. The only time my husband checks his emails is right before bed, unless there's something extremely important he's waiting on. I think that's fair.

Right now everything is about her. You need to take some power back. Tell her that the date tonight does not include phones (I'm assuming that's how she uses IM and FB).


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> Ok heres the "quote" reply;
> 
> I feel you on the work being the "mistress", I geuss my question is how to deal with jealousy. Or is there an other areas for questions regarding the subject? I dont want to spy and pry, I just want to do away with these feelings. Unfortantely, my wife has IMO everything made for her, and in turn doesnt feel like there is a need to be slightly gracious or attentive (but I dont want to play mind reader either).
> 
> Thanks again for your input.


Wow you sound just like my husband. Something you want to tell me?? LOL
Anyway, I felt that saying thank you so much babe once was enough. He felt that I needed to keep saying it. Have to admit that bugged me, what did he want - me to fall at his feet with gratitude that he was helping to take care of OUR kids? Its not that we are not grateful, we wouldn't expect you to keep praising us for the things we do every day, so we don't expect that you guys will need constant ego stroking. 

Its natural that you are scared she will leave you behind. Do you feel that you are not good enough for her?

It is hard to go to school & give the kids attention. I used to go to night classes & was exhausted by the time I got home at 11pm after having the kids during the day & then focusing at school at night. My brain was fried & I needed time to decompress. I did switch to days which I thought would make life easier as we'd both be here in the evenings & could have more time together. Guess that didnt work out the way I thought. Now I am here alone trying to finish school (got a year left) & stay strong for the kids. 

How much longer does your wife have left?


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

OK, first off, I know Im not the first person to be a stay at home parent. I am not looking for a pat on the back for that. I am looking for understanding and advice regarding my concerns, not " hey women do it all the time pal", well no ****! 


Well I am concerned a) she will move on once she's done school(her field has potential for career advancment) b) also that there is potentially another man c) or that shes fallen out of love with me.

As far really willing to give...Im there, I give massages, make sure she gets hers first etc. Yet I think she has grown accustumed to this kind of treatment, which is fine but I would prefer the effort be reciprocated once and awhile.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> OK, first off, I know Im not the first person to be a stay at home parent. I am not looking for a pat on the back for that. I am looking for understanding and advice regarding my concerns, not " hey women do it all the time pal", well no ****!
> 
> 
> Well I am concerned a) she will move on once she's done school(her field has potential for career advancment) b) also that there is potentially another man c) or that shes fallen out of love with me.
> ...


Hopefully someone will chime in with the "manning up" recommendation. I really think it would work in your situation. It sounds like you've been very giving, but haven't expected much in return. I know it seems backwards, but that's made her lose respect for you. 

I would consider the notion that there is another man as well. The amount of time she spends away from home "at the gym" just seems suspect. How long has her gym schedule been like this? Did you notice a change in behavior right before she started going all the time?


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok I will check out the "Maning up" reccomendation. Shes been going for about month and its still new and exciting, as far as changes I cant think of any that stand out. 

How is doing all these things amount to a loss of respect? I thought the idea was to make things easier on her, so as to allow more time to be spent with me? Guess not.

Sorry for being cranky, but it seems like Im getting flamed abit here for being what I thought was agood husband.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

woodstock said:


> Oh, believe me, if the man were willing to really give, the woman would have the energy to receive. The no energy bit is what comes from giving up because you been busting your butt trying to make it all work (without much help). Hell, I know women that work, go to school, are full time mom, clean the house AND do all the rest.... Why should it be amazing that a guy does it? Ever talk to a single mom? EEEEEP Talk about all the work it takes!!!!


you paint with a broad brush.

sorry I don't buy the thought that stay at home moms/dads work harder than working full time .


some time you can have that situation and some time its bull.

I know lots of fathers that work full time and do boy scouts , coach baseball mow the lawn etc.etc.etc 


I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest here.

the OP indicated he is the one doing all the stay at home chores and he still has energy for sex with his wife.


usually we hear that doing all thoese tasks is why the wife dose not want to have sex. That they are to tierd from running ragad all day chasing after the kid and do house work.

I for one am not convinced.


Don't get me wrong if you are married to someone who is not helping and is demanding unreasonable stuff then thats a different story but in threads that I have read about the wife not wanting to make time for intamancy the Poster always states that they are doing more than their fair share of chores. and he or she still don't want to have any intamacy.


to me it seems that going to school and to the gym are more important than her family She sounds selfish and the OP should be conserened about their future


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Not flaming you at all. you are being a great husband. It becomes very easy to take each other for granted. 

Don't go down the path I'm on by holding that resentment in until you are ready to blow. Arrange date night & tell her how you feel.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

I think part of the problem is when searching for how to be a better husband it almost always includes; help w/ the kids and chores. Some even call it "choreplay", which is b.s. So I do it anyways because its the thing to do in a relationship. However, our egalitarian relationship has become friggin one sided, and I try not to harbour resentment but come on really? Who wouldn't? I am more concerned than resentful. Possibly a little too cynical as well. 

I feel like our relationship is doomed and I just want to fix it! I read the ranking thing and scooted over to alpha/beta males and as far as I am concerned Im most likely the gamma male. I was the bad boy but grew the F up, and this is what I get for it? FML!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

"Choreplay" ... that cheered me right up. Utter BS alright. But funny. Not sure what FML is.. but think I know where you're coming from. 

Communication is the biggest issue. If you aren't talking, you can't fix things. Start talking.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Communication is key, however it has been lacking. She tells me "oh I thought everything was fine", when I bring up any issues that requires our attention as a couple. I am blown away at how oblivious she is, or portrays herself to be sometimes. She says all the right things at the time yet, rarely seems to follow through on many. I am thinking its in a tailspin  and that is absolutely devastating to think. I am not quite ready to start keylogging or any sort of creepy surveilance but I am tempted, however that seems like way too much of an invasion of privacy.

FML is F*ck My Life.


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> Her work is going to take a lot of understanding on your part, but also some bending on hers. Going to the gym for such a long time so many times a week WILL eventually harm your relationship. You need time together. I think asking her to cut the gym visits down to once a week and taking a run in the mornings is fair.
> 
> Have you expressed to her that you need one on one time? She seems to always place her work ahead of family, and that is not fair to you. There isn't a need for her to check emails or facebook constantly. The only time my husband checks his emails is right before bed, unless there's something extremely important he's waiting on. I think that's fair.
> 
> Right now everything is about her. You need to take some power back. Tell her that the date tonight does not include phones (I'm assuming that's how she uses IM and FB).


Sound advice here - try it & see what happens. Best of luck to u, glad you are trying to fix things.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Well I'll give it a go, time to Alpha up right.

That is be proactive, assertive and place boundaries. The part I dont get is how to do this without coming off as a total ahole. Me and the kids or the door? This seems overly harsh. I also feel like I enjoy the man I have become but now Im being told being an equal is not manly? Im so freaking confused with all this manning up business. 

I guess thats why I am in this predicament right, what a sick joke.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

WOW! Just wow! 

He made, imo, a clear post that his concern is serious. He's not complaining about being the stay at home parent or bragging about it either. That's just part of what he knows has to be ... for now.

He's given and given and helped and supported and now he's out of resources. 

He feels left behind, looked over, and unappreciated. He needs to feel important and vital to his wife and he's not getting that from her. He did what he should at that point. He addressed it and even put it in writing to her. She half agreed but is more focused on the children. He's not jealous of "another man" but of "another obsession" called work, study, burn out, desire to be 100% for everyone other than him. He's afraid that if she doesn't need him now, then why would she need him when she's finished prepping herself for that fabulous life "after graduation"?

She feels she's given and given and struggled to balance family, work, and school. (Notice the similarity between their positions?)

She's feels she's being superwoman - pulled every which way. Everyone wants something from her. Her professors want perfect papers, homework, grades. Her children want mommy. Her husband wants a "wife" in all ways, not just a roommate. What's left for her?

Sorry but she's run out of resources to give to everyone who wants something. That's why she's going to the gym BUT it's still not enough. She MUST provide for the professors or all is for naught. Her children can't understand why mommy's not more available and honestly, she can't refuse them because she's NOT available as much as she feels she should be. So ... She figures if there's one person that can wait, it's him, her husband. He's an adult. He knows what they are working for. She (and he) have made it a pattern, a habit, that "their" time will wait. She has to reprogram herself. She won't like it because she feels she's doing everything she can right now.

I want to clarify that I don't find it suspect that she goes to the gym that much. IMO, she's trying to deal with a lot of stress and she's trying to replenish her energy levels. She doesn't have "time or energy" for another thing, let alone another man. 

So what would I do? I'd sit her down and I'd explain that I understand what's going on. Spell it out, that you understand she needs replenishment too. That's she's maxed out with everything. That you "get it"! Then I'd say, guess what, I'm there too. It's time we have to reinvest in "us". We have to build back up our bank of couple love to be able to remain partners in this tedious journey. Let her know you are to the point where we MUST put each other first on a regular basis (quality vs quantity) or you're afraid you won't make it as a couple.

Ask her opinion of how you can do that together and still handle all the other pressures. Include her in the solution. Don't assume that you can figure it out for her. She has to become actively involved in this strategy or it will become another source of OMG what more can "they" want from me?

Just my $0.02.
Best of luck, praying,
Lost


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Thank you...freaking, Thank you _Lost_!!! 

The others posters are somewhat helpful, but you hit nail right on the head!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Yeah that was great. And very apt for my situation, except my husband upped & left. Any advice for me??


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Babyheart said:


> Yeah that was great. And very apt for my situation, except my husband upped & left. Any advice for me??


Sorry to hear it didnt work for you babyheart. Love the new user pic, our maritial knot is still tied and on display and hope it will for a long time to come.We'll see how things progress but if it doesnt work, I'll hold a special place in my heart for her. But damn it life is to short to pander for what I deserve!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

I hope it works out for you. We had a lot of other stress with a sick child & massive amount of medical debt. Not a lot of time for "us" when your child is in critical condition. Plus he began drinking... a lot. 

Will see where counseling goes for us. 

Good luck - you are on the right track - keep us posted!


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Babyheart, 

I'm really sorry it didn't work for you. I don't know your situation so I can't comment on what to do at this point. It sounds like you're already past where McKenzie and his wife are.

And ... I also cannot promise or guarantee what I've said in my prior post is correct in McKenzie and his wife's situation. It's just my view of it, my $0.02. 

I will say, that I know that most times, not all of course, when people disagree there's right and wrong opinions on each side. My mother always used to say there's your truth, their truth, and the real truth which is somewhere in the middle. 

When we disagree or have a power struggle, if we can figure out why they feel the way they do and why they are acting like they are, usually you can piece together a solution ... together. If one or the other tries to force their way on the other, you're going to have trouble down the line.

McKenzie, I sincerely hope it helps. I'd say it's worth a shot before you start putting ultimatums or suspicions into the mix that's already a tough situation. Keep in mind you're allies, not enemies. 

Again, just my $0.02.
Lost


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I have a few questions for you.
How long have you been a stay at home parent?
Will you be going back to work when your seasonal employment begins? And if you will be going back to work how will chores/housework/child care factor in at that point?
Has your wife been preoccupied with her own life and leaving you to fend for everything else but not necessarily mean, cruel or any other negative emotion?--Basically, just preoccupied?
If you wanted to get a job or hobby outside of the kids and your wife would you have the opportunity to do that?

I'm not a fan of man'ing up. I can relate to everything you say, I think I'm living it actually. You sort of understand that your emotions are getting away from you and aren't really based in reality yet they seem so real and they begin to control you? You are resentful because you feel that you're putting so much into the "US" part of the relationship and yet she is spending all of her time working on "HER" and that is all.

I don't have the answer except that for me prying and poking has worked to kill the jealousy issues. It's hard to be jealous when I can read all his work emails. It's hard to doubt where he is or what he's saying when I can even read inter-relational IM's as well.

After getting rid of the jealousy issue there was the time issue. I feel it's unfair that I do everything for the family while he is allowed to do everything for his career under the guise that it's actually all for the family. When this turns into 60 - 70 hour weeks and no time for attention for me and the kids...well, I get resentful.

I have a really, really long thread in Ladies Lounge. My issues led to boundary setting. We're working on it and once I was willing to accept the vastness of my emotions and put them all out there, I recognized quite a few things. First of all, yes he has a timing issue and he is far too invested in his job. Second of all, yes I really need to get a life of my own and not be putting so much into the "US" and so little into the "ME".

So it comes down to working on you. Finding out what makes you happy. Not allowing the "US" & the "KIDS" to solely define you. Accepting that you do deserve happiness and experiences of your own as well and should not feel guilty about seeking them.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I have a few questions for you.
> How long have you been a stay at home parent?
> Will you be going back to work when your seasonal employment begins? And if you will be going back to work how will chores/housework/child care factor in at that point?
> Has your wife been preoccupied with her own life and leaving you to fend for everything else but not necessarily mean, cruel or any other negative emotion?--Basically, just preoccupied?
> ...


How long have you been a stay at home parent?
SInce October of last year.
Will you be going back to work when your seasonal employment begins?
Yes, back to work early spring. 
And if you will be going back to work how will chores/housework/child care factor in at that point?
The children will go to day care during the week, chores and housework will be done bare bones and when I get home kids get real meals and the house is actualy cleaned, then back to work. I work out of town mon-thurs/fri, home for the weekend.
Has your wife been preoccupied with her own life and leaving you to fend for everything else but not necessarily mean, cruel or any other negative emotion?--Basically, just preoccupied?
Shes not necessarily mean, just absent and devoid of intimacy on most levels.
If you wanted to get a job or hobby outside of the kids and your wife would you have the opportunity to do that
I believe so Im going to get my own gym membership instead of working out at home and FTW

sorry i couldnt get more in depth, but I need to drive my wife to the gym, bahahahaha FML.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> How long have you been a stay at home parent?
> SInce October of last year.
> Will you be going back to work when your seasonal employment begins?
> Yes, back to work early spring.
> ...


OK, so it's a temporary thing and the real issue is that your wife is not reciprocating the intimacy you need. This is where you need to be BLUNT honest with her, set your boundary. You don't have to be an A-hole to do this or transform who you are to solicit a response. You have to tell her it's a must for you and you're not getting it and because of it the "US" is not there for you.

I worked out, it was my thing but my husband has recently joined me. Which was good until he f'd me over 15x's and didn't show up. Here our memberships only cost $15 a month so the money is not an issue. In NJ there are so many gyms that the prices have gotten ridiculously cheap for the service they provide, there is a gym around the corner that's $10 a month. They all have free daycare as well so I can get some me-time and not have to arrange babysitting. The gym for you is a good idea but won't fix the problem if she still won't recognize your needs in the relationship. It might just provide a distraction.

My only follow up questions would be whether or not you're satisfied with your current job? Would you like the chance to also educate or change careers as well?


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

My job is great, outdoors with plenty of free exercise and pays well too. The only draw back is its only form early spring to mid fall. I couldnt be happier, unless I was home every night of course, unfortunately thats not the nature of my job. I have 2 diplomas and have considered a third in my off time just havent aquired the time/finances for another as of yet.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

So I went ahead and tried to semi-man up, I dont think it went well.

She was and always is very defensive. Any time I express a feeling or want it is turned into some sort of attack on her.I was blunt, stating that yes she had been attending to the kids and attnding to my needs meant "well I said I appreciate you". She went on to say well we had a nice weekend, by that she meant we spent it lavishing our attention on the kids. Thats great, but I require abit more than that. She says well I hungout with you, we watch t.v and hang out. Is this enough? I said I wanted more quality time, and staring at a glow picture is not what I consider qualitytime...but then again maybe I've forgotten/dont know what quality is any more. I told her I felt she has all these priorities and that I am lowest on the list. To which she responded, should I quit school, is that you want? (which I dont), and said it was for her career. Yes, her career. The tone made me feel like, ya MINE (which it is), and youre not to be included in my ascent. Mabye I am being overly sensitive, but I do know she's at the gym and I am at home alone, once again.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

OMG I know that whole "last on the list" and it's enough to make you go mad!!! if you DO get a solution to it.... do share, I never did solve that one!!


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

woodstock said:


> OMG I know that whole "last on the list" and it's enough to make you go mad!!! if you DO get a solution to it.... do share, I never did solve that one!!


Think I really F'ed it up with that one, but its the truth, and I guess the truth hurts right?

She's done and just cant admit it to me or herself I think.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Not sure she is done... Maybe just not REALLY understanding what it means to be last on the list, or what that feels like. No matter how I tried, the "he" that I had just did not get it... now he was no brain surgeon, but still.. does not seem that complicated a thing to me!


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Agreed


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I've read through and I think you've made a mistake--but one you can recover from. First, "get a life." Don't read a "mean tone" there; I am just saying, build your own interests. You come across on the thread as very needy, and from her point of view (or mine, when I was in her shoes), this meant, "one more kid to take care of." It is so unattractive and kills desire. The direction you want to go is, hey, I'm happy and having fun, honey; want to join me? Now THAT'S attractive. If she still values you, she'll be grateful and relieved to be invited out of her world o'neediness, where everyone wants something from her, to YOUR world of fun, all organized and orchestrated by you. But you need to find a way to be happy for yourself, first. Get out more, with the kids. Get out more, on your own. Then start inviting her to join you (and make the arrangements for the kids). Low pressure, high fun. Do not talk about relationship stuff during the fun time. Don't talk about it at all for a while, just be busy and happy and open to her w/o expecting anything. 

You are the one on here, and I'd say the same thing to a woman: find a way to build up your own happiness, and you will be more interesting and appealing. She'll start to see you as an adult again, as someone she can trust and lean on, and who may lean on her but won't overwhelm her with his neediness. 

I don't think she's "done." I think she is likely to move in that direction, however, if you keep coming across as needy. Good luck!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> Think I really F'ed it up with that one, but its the truth, and I guess the truth hurts right?
> 
> She's done and just cant admit it to me or herself I think.


McKenzie,

What you describe is far from manning up.

Here's the signature line:

"A man may have needs, but cannot afford to be needy"

What you did - and said - sounded needy to me. And, it sounds like it sounded "needy" to your wife also.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read all the links.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Ya, I got that sounding needy crap too, but once it is realized how little it would take to remove that "neediness" it becomes and ah haa moment... Does not take much to make a person feel important and respected. That is not about neediness it's about common courtesy and simple recognition of another person really. It's not like being massively high maintenance. And it's not about needing ones own life. No matter what you do on your own, you still want to know that you at least cross your SO mind once in a while or that they too wish there were more hours in a day... being on the bottom of the list, below so many trivial things.., well, it just plain sux monkey butt


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear McK. Hope things looks up.


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## welshh (Feb 22, 2011)

sounds to me like the problem is to much going on and not enough time for it all. Is there anything on her responsibilities you can take over for her to free up more time. Otherwise if it was me and the relationship was stable enough I would consider adding another person and forming a polyrelationship so that the responsibilities can be spread a little thinner.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

welshh said:


> sounds to me like the problem is to much going on and not enough time for it all. Is there anything on her responsibilities you can take over for her to free up more time. Otherwise if it was me and the relationship was stable enough I would consider adding another person and forming a polyrelationship so that the responsibilities can be spread a little thinner.


bahahahaha

Keep your polyamoury out of this welshh


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

As far as being needy goes, ya I need my partner to be engaged if I didnt I wouldnt be on here. We had a true Tuesday night date, I made the arrangments and we had a great time. I think I am going to disregard the pseudo-macho alpha bullplop. Just keep communication open and as long as we have that together we'll be fine.

Thanks babyheart, lost, woodstock and Trenton!!!

The rest of you dont read a mean tone but...pound sand your advice is sh!te.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> As far as being needy goes, ya I need my partner to be engaged if I didnt I wouldnt be on here. We had a true Tuesday night date, I made the arrangments and we had a great time. I think I am going to disregard the pseudo-macho alpha bullplop. Just keep communication open and as long as we have that together we'll be fine.
> 
> Thanks babyheart, lost, woodstock and Trenton!!!
> 
> The rest of you dont read a mean tone but...pound sand your advice is sh!te.


There's a gulf between humbly asking for advice and sanctimoniously seeking sympathy and agreement.

Enjoy.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

You have to be able to be what is you, if you aren't the aplphaplop, then don't try to be. Then you just give off a false representation of yourself... no good for anyone. If you have needs you have needs... make them known and see if they can be filled, at least in part... compromise is still part of the game, but giving up everything you need shouldn't be, for either of you


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

I humbly asked for advice...and recieved great advice from the ones I thanked, sorry you werent included Connie.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Well first let me say, I don't think McKenzie has come across as being needy in the thread. It's reasonable to have expectations in a marriage that the other person IS going to want to spend time with you, to want to be intimate with you, to appreciate and turn to you, to respect and value your opinions and feelings. I don't know what relationship standards anyone else set, but by golly, when I fell in love and agreed to marry it wasn't with someone who didn't exhibit those attitudes and feelings towards me. If I wanted less why wouldn't I just marry anyone or better yet NOT get married at all?

It's human to want those things and it's reasonable to look for them in your marriage partner.

When I posted my first response it was with the expectation that McKenzie would go into that conversation with the attitude of hey, we're a team. WE have a problem. I believe I may have figured it out. Let's talk about it. Here's what I see. I'll bet she'd agree with being overwhelmed and being pulled every which way. THAT is the basis for gaining her involvement AND investment in finding a solution. I said she's NOT going to like it! She's stretched! She doesn't want another child as Sister so bluntly called it. But ... once she realizes and admits that YES, she has a problem too she'll be much more inclined to want to find a solution for her problem, your problem, and your marriage problem.

Marriage requires teamwork. Our spouses aren't enemies, they are allies. If you go into any situation with the attitude that the other person is wrong or the enemy you've already earned yourself a much tougher battle than need be and in the end you may end up with a true enemy.

Take heart Mckenzie, you don't have to be needy or man up, you need to be concerned. Show genuine concern for her, for you, and for your marriage. HUGE difference. Give her reasons to WANT to engage in a solution. You can do it with the right attitude. Don't demand your rights, don't demand she agree, negotiate and find a mutual understanding. Show compassion for her, for yourself, and paint a picture of what end result you both want. Love is patient, Love is kind.

Just my $0.02.
Lost


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>I told her I felt she has all these priorities and that I am lowest on the list. To which she responded, should I quit school, is that you want? (which I dont), and said it was for her career. Yes, her career. The tone made me feel like, ya MINE (which it is), and youre not to be included in my ascent. Mabye I am being overly sensitive<<

The word is "needy".


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Well Conrad, I agree, YOU are being needy. Your conversation was all about YOU! So stop! 

You told her about YOU! Tell her about the US picture. How it affects her. When you go to someone with things that are all about you, you don't engage them in the problem. They see it as YOUR problem.

Explain hers, yours, and the marriage problem. Start with hers, be understanding, be compassionate, be concerned. Engage her in the solution.

Again, just my $0.02.
Lost


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lost and Confused,

If it was my thread, I'd agree.

If McKenzie doesn't avail himself of some of the great ideas on this site, he'll be back in a few years with a thread along the lines of:

"EA moving towards PA"

And, by then, it may be too late.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Conrad said:


> Lost and Confused,
> 
> If it was my thread, I'd agree.
> 
> ...


So you're saying playing games by "manning up" or issuing ultimatums will solve the problem? I can see how that's the way to avoid an EA or PA or even a divorce.

I'd think genuine involvement, concern, respect, approaching as an ally rather than an enemy, and communication might be a better tactic, but then again, that's just my opinion. I've never once indicated there shouldn't be boundaries of what he should put up with, but he's a far distance from needing to draw a line in the sand at this point. He can negotiate and build the relationship now. I can see how pretending and trying to force someone into a corner to adapt to my wants would be better. =)

Just my $0.02.
Lost

BTW, boundaries are all about you and doesn't demand a specified reaction. The choice is theirs. Demands is all about the other person and telling them how to be or else.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Playing games?

I fail to see how actually growing up and not acting like a child is playing games.


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## McKenzie (Feb 22, 2011)

Either way I appreciate the advice.

I think *Lost* gets it while Connie wants to hijak the thread. There was WE talk, our future, etc. It wasnt just Oh poor me, I need your afection/attention. It was more working towards a solution to balance our hectic lives, while respecting each others needs. If that makes me needy, well f*ck me, I am man enough without having to man up!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

For your sake, I hope she agrees.

Next time though, I suggest you title your thread, "Agreement Sought!"

That would be truth in advertising.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> Either way I appreciate the advice.
> 
> I think *Lost* gets it while Connie wants to hijak the thread. There was WE talk, our future, etc. It wasnt just Oh poor me, I need your afection/attention. It was more working towards a solution to balance our hectic lives, while respecting each others needs. If that makes me needy, well f*ck me, I am man enough without having to man up!


That is the way to go, and don't listen to people and the "needy" crap. Everyone needs something from a relationship, but what we need has to do with who we are. You need what you need and so what.. we all do


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Conrad said:


> For your sake, I hope she agrees.
> 
> Next time though, I suggest you title your thread, "Agreement Sought!"
> 
> That would be truth in advertising.


Advise is just that ... advice. It's not a dictate that the person agree or act on it, or at least it shouldn't be. 

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending upon your outlook, each one of us gives advice based on "our" concepts and experiences. We don't truly know what the situation is for the person asking for advice because we haven't lived their lives. Because of that truth, not everyone's advice will be agreed with or taken into consideration. We all live our lives, making our own mistakes based upon on our own decisions.

It's my opinion that there's no need to become angry or sarcastic when my $0.02 isn't a good fit, but again, that's just my opinion.

Just my $0.02.
Respectfully,
Lost


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## welshh (Feb 22, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> bahahahaha
> 
> Keep your polyamoury out of this welshh


well thats not to say that there has to be anything sexual with the person thats added but seems like as though nobody on here is open minded enough to look at ideas that don't conform to the mainstraim ideas but I guess thats why the say insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result


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