# Mood Disorders



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

How common is it for several people in a family to have some kind of mood disorder? 

For example this guy that I have been seeing has bipolar, which I must say has been quite a challenge at times and not sure how well this is going to work out or last. I met both of his sisters, and they actually come across as having something as well. Their moods change at the drop of a hat, and his middle sister, is 48 and acts like a baby, if she doesn't get her way. :scratchhead:

His mother is very depressed. I feel bad for her in a way, she just kind of sits around like "woe is me." The guy I'm seeing says he thinks his mother has some clinical depression but most of it stems more from her choices in life. His dad just sits around and drinks, used to be a skirt chaser but to old for that now. And has some soical phobias, doesn't like to be around people. 

So is it possible they could all suffer from something? If they all have mood disorders, is it likely they are all the same, or different?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Yes its possible they can all have mood disorders. Especially if one or both parents have it as well. 

Genetics and environment make up for people having disorders like that. Sometimes its actually more about what they have learned than the genetics itself. 

As far as the middle sister, acting like a baby if not given her way that sounds more like being spolied or having some kind of entitlement issues, but there again chances are thats something that was learned.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My husband's ex is bi-polar.

My husband has ADD.

My step-children.. husbands kids have problems. Step-daughter is definately bi-polar. Step-son seems to be both ADD & bi-polar. I raised these kids from age 10/12. I love them both. But I have cut them out of my life as I cannot deal with their disorders and their self-medicating with illegal drugs.

My advice is to not get involved with anyone with problems like bi-polar unless they are one of the few who takes their disorder seriously, takes their meds etc. I'm not sure I would have children with them however.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I think it's common to see this in families... I have experience in this as well, with a family where only one person out of all of the family members (including extended family) can hold a job, and everyone else seems to be battling some kind of depression/bipolar or schizophrenia.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

My wife is bipolar, but her psychiatrist describes it as a spectrum disorder of depression. In other words, she has recently gone through a more positive phase, her highest in a long time, but still rates dangerously high on a depression scale. Antidepressants are counter-productive, leading to suicide attempts in the past. It's heartbreaking to find out that our son has this very same disorder. The doctor said that it is very often hereditary.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. The guy I'm seeing actually told me even though he has bipolar he doesn't take meds for it. He feels the medicines out there have such bad side effects that they outweigh the good of helping. Now I'm sure that a possibility BUT I'm sure there are many out there that can be quite helpful as well. 

I sometimes wonder if thats just an excuse to not take anything/get help, but who knows really. He is super nice guy, BUT with him having bipolar and not being on meds and what looks to be some kind of family history of most of them having something as well, I just don't know if I want to go any further with pursuing the relationship. I would imagine it would be quite difficult and a real challenge to be with someone who has a disorder, I sure couldn't imagine the whole family being that way as well.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> But I have cut them out of my life as I cannot deal with their disorders and their self-medicating with illegal drugs.


The guy I'm seeing and his family seem to do the same thing with the self medicating. Maybe not so much illegal drugs, BUT surely prescription and alcohol.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I think you can find a far more stable man, as well as the family that comes with him, than this one. You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what it would be like to be married to this man and to have these folks as in-laws.

I'm sure he can be a very nice guy, but you're already seeing the red flags. Is there really any compelling reason to stay?


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> I think you can find a far more stable man, as well as the family that comes with him, than this one. You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what it would be like to be married to this man and to have these folks as in-laws.
> 
> I'm sure he can be a very nice guy, but you're already seeing the red flags. Is there really any compelling reason to stay?


You're right! I doubt it will work as I said in My original post. Its kinda like a jekyll and hyde experience. One part is nice the other not so much. Its the not so much one I don't know how to handle. I don't think I'm willing to learn either.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> The guy I'm seeing and his family seem to do the same thing with the self medicating. Maybe not so much illegal drugs, BUT surely prescription and alcohol.


This is a huge problem with people with these types of disorders. I've been told that when they are in a high phase it is better than any drug out there. It's the down turns and are a problem. So they want to experience their highs. They are way too good. So they don't take the medication that levels them out. But then the lows are hard ... and the self-medication starts.

There are levels of bi-polar. Some people experience episodes only occasionally, others do so more regularly. A person can been on a pretty even keel for a long time and then suddenly be thrown into an horrible episode.

One thing that I found out recently about bi-polar is that people with it can go into a psychotic state. When they are in this state it can be hard to tell the difference between being bi-polar and a paranoid schizophrenic. 

I have a nephew how is diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. His doctors are starting to think it might actually be bi-polar with sever psychosis states. He is way out there. Thinks he’s a god. We had him institutionalized in June because as he explained he was transitioning into being a god. Says he was sent to this work to cleanse it.. and he had a huge hit list of all who have sinned against him. So it’s his job to kill all of us on his hit list.. yes my family and I are on his hit list. I sinned against him because I took care of him for two years, got him ‘into the system’ of SSI, medical care, etc. So I’m part of the big evil government conspiracy that is watching him and putting drugs in him to destroy his power as a god. Yep he believes this. And this might ‘just’ be bi-polar and not paranoid schizophrenia.

Are you familiar with Dr. Amin? I’ve read some one his books. He has a very good on the different types of ADD. There is another one I’m reading right not “Change Your Brain, Change Your Body”. He has a website. You might find his work and writing interesting. If I win the lottery I would take my step children to him on the chance that he knows what he is doing and he can help them.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> This is a huge problem with people with these types of disorders. I've been told that when they are in a high phase it is better than any drug out there. It's the down turns and are a problem. So they want to experience their highs. They are way too good. So they don't take the medication that levels them out. But then the lows are hard ... and the self-medication starts.


Sometimes, I wonder how much of it is a actual disorder and how much of it is, people who were turned out into the world with no real coping skills.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> Their moods change at the drop of a hat, and his middle sister, is 48 and acts like a baby, if she doesn't get her way.


CallaLily, the behaviors you describe are far closer to BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) than bipolar disorder. This is an important distinction because, whereas bipolar can be successfully treated with a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat because it is not caused by a change in body chemistry. 

Rather, BPD originates in early childhood from damage to the child's emotional core, freezing his emotional development at about age four (which may explain his frequent temper tantrums and his sister's acting like a child). Because it is believed to be due partly to genetics, it is not uncommon to see many family members having BPD or another mood disorder.

I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found several clear differences between the two disorders.

One difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in one day. 

A second difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely longer than a day).

A third difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Hence, the "drop of the hat mood" changes you describe sound like the event-triggered changes caused by BPD, not the bipolar mood changes that occur gradually over two weeks due to a body chemistry change.

A fourth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication. As I noted above, BPD arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

Finally, a sixth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. BPDers therefore are jealous and controlling of their loved ones. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when a person does not trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will. 

Yet, despite these six clear differences between the two disorders, many therapists mistake BPD for bipolar. One source of the confusion is the BPDer's ability to mask all their BPD traits during the 50-minute therapy sessions held once a week. High functioning BPDers are especially talented at such deception because they typically are good at acting. 

Another source of confusion is that about 25% of BPD sufferers also have the bipolar disorder. A third cause of confusion is the common practice of therapists to list the diagnosis only as "bipolar" whenever the client actually has both of those disorders. They often do this -- not mentioning the "BPD" in the diagnosis -- to protect the client, for reasons I've discussed in other posts. If you would like to read a description of typical BPDer behavior, I suggest you see my post in Maybe's thread about his moody wife. It starts at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, CallaLily.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Major mood disorders such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia absolutely run in families. They are biological in origin, resulting from abnormalities in the way the electrical impulses and chemical receptors in the brain send and receive their "messages". Comparisons are often drawn between people with bipolar and people with conditions like Type I diabetes for that reason. Just as their pancreas doesn't happen to produce insulin correctly, our brains don't "fire" correctly. In both cases it is a medical condition that has to be managed medically and through lifestyle. There are a very few people that manage successfully with lifestyle alone, but it generally requires an extremely strong, stable support system that can help them identify mood cycles early on and provide external structure and boundaries to prevent extreme escalation. Even then, research shows that untreated or sporadically treated bipolar disorder tends to intensify in frequency and severity of episodes over time, so even with that kind of support, it can be a risk.

I know in my own family, I have a cousin with Bipolar I(intense mania and depression that carries high rates of associated psychosis), my father and sister struggle with clinical depression, another cousin was likely bipolar, or at least had severe addiction and behavioral issues his whole life, and I have Bipolar II (milder manic and depressive episodes, no psychosis). I think that nearly everyone copes and presents a little differently, but I would absolutely say this: if a person has bipolar disorder, or any major mental illness and ISN'T actively treating it somehow, RUN from a relationship with them. It's a cycle not worth taking on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Oh my goodness Uptown, thank you so much for your reply! You seem very knowledgeable in this area. 

You know after describing some of the difference between bipolar and BPD, I do wonder now if its possible they guy I'm seeing has been misdiagnosed? It does seem his moods change rather quickly. Sometimes I'm left wondering, Ok what just happend? One thing I have noticed as well, and I'm wondering if this is part of the disorder, is there seems to be alot of blame when he gets into one of his not so good moods. Blame is something I have a hard time understanding. I do not know how to deal with someone who wants to blame another person. I wasn't taught to do that, I was taught to try and take responsiblity for MY actions etc. and not to put things off on others. 

So, when I get blamed for whatever by him, I almost feel like I'm being "emotionally damaged" I know that might sound weird but its how I feel at times. When his "not so good mood" turns back to a "good mood", he never says he is sorry for anything even when I bring it to his attention. He just acts like nothing happened. He did say to me once before, "Why would I tell you I'm sorry if I'm just going to turn around and do the same thing again." :scratchhead: I have never been so baffled by a statement. 

My question to you Uptown is, when you were dealing with your wife's BPD and your sons bipolar, how did you cope? How did you let their behavior NOT effect you? I would think as long as you are with that person, that would be hard to not do.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree with Uptown. He sounds more like me than bipolar. If he is BPD, I honestly feel you would be better off not getting any more involved with this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

This is going to sound harsh but is your life worth this potential misery? Be thankful you have seen this before you got too involved. This is one of those times where being selfish will literally save your life. Run! don't walk away from these people including your BF.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> There seems to be alot of blame when he gets into one of his not so good moods. Blame is something I have a hard time understanding.


CallaLily, BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) always think of themselves as _perpetual victims_. Generally, a BPDer will allow you to remain in a relationship with him only as long as you continue to validate that false self image. During the infatuation stage (3 to 6 months), you achieve that by being his "savior." As long as he perceives you as his savior (i.e., his perfect soul mate), he knows that he must be a victim because you have come to save him from something. 

But, of course, he doesn't really want to be saved. This will become evident -- if your BF has strong BPD traits -- every time you pull him from the raging seas. You will hear him jumping right back into the water as soon as you turn your back. What he wants is not "being saved" but, rather, "being validated" as a victim.

As soon as his infatuation evaporates, he will no longer be able to perceive you as a savior -- except occasionally in sporadic periods when he is splitting you white. Hence, when the honeymoon period ends, he will start perceiving of you as "the perpetrator," the cause of every misfortune that comes his way. In this way, you will continue to validate his false self image of being "the victim." You will be blamed for everything -- a process called "projection." 

Essentially, he is projecting all his faults and mistakes onto you, using you like a trash can, to avoid seeing too much of reality. As an ego defense mechanism, projection works so beautifully only because it is done subconsciously -- thus allowing his conscious mind to actually believe the outrageous accusations coming out of his mouth. If he did not believe the accusations to be true, he would experience terrible feelings of guilt and shame -- and would have to let go of his false self image of being "the victim."


> He never says he is sorry for anything even when I bring it to his attention. He just acts like nothing happened.


If your BF has strong BPD traits, this behavior is easy to explain. One hallmark of BPDers is their refusal to accept responsibility for their own actions. They carry so much self loathing and shame inside that it is extremely painful for them to recognize that they have made one more mistake. They therefore protect themselves from that shame by using the emotional defenses available to them. 

Yet, because their emotional development is frozen at the level of a four year old, the only defenses available are those primitive ego defenses that used by children. These include denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, splitting (i.e., a form of dissociation), and projection. It therefore is common for a BPDer to throw a temper tantrum for five hours and then, in ten seconds, flip into a completely different mood -- acting as though nothing had ever happened. 

My exW, for example, would say ugly things for hours and then, in a few seconds, switch to a mood wherein she wanted to jump into bed with me. Scarred by the ugly outpouring I had just witnessed, I would not be ready for intimacy for several days. She never could understand why I could not flip back and forth between extreme feelings as effortlessly as she did. So she often accused me of "holding a grudge."


> So, when I get blamed for whatever by him, I almost feel like I'm being "emotionally damaged."


If he is a BPDer, what you are witnessing is emotional abuse and it is damaging. It is so common for BPDers that their ex-partners have given it a name: "gaslighting." It is named after the classic 1944 movie _Gaslight,_ in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to get her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels. One of his "crazy making" tricks is to turn down the house gas lights a tiny bit every day -- all the while claiming to be able to see and read just fine.

For the most part, however, BPDers do not throw blame as a way of driving you crazy. Instead, they usually are only trying to avoid adding one more thing to the long list of things they hate about themselves. That is, they are trying to protect their fragile egos. Indeed, it is because they actually believe the allegations that they are so sincere and persuasive. The end result, however, is often the same -- a large portion of partners living with BPDers start to feel like they may be going crazy or losing their minds. Indeed, of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the only one that is notorious for making the PARTNERS feel like they are going crazy. With a narcissist, for example, you will feel crushed and miserable but you won't feel like you are losing your mind.


> My question to you Uptown is, when you were dealing with your wife's BPD and your sons bipolar, how did you cope? How did you let their behavior NOT effect you?


With my BPDer exW, I avoided the crazy feeling entirely because -- from the beginning -- I knew she had some sort of mood disorder that was distorting her perceptions of my intentions. Likewise, with my foster son, I knew he had bipolar disorder. 

This is not to say, however, that the stress of helping them was not damaging. It did take a toll on me. After about 15 years, I developed stage 4 cancer, which I was able to survive only because I went through 8 months of very aggressive chemo and radiation treatments. If you would like to know more about what it was like to live with a BPDer, please follow the link I provided above. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I am a BPD'er. My SO also posts on here, his name is Joe Kidd. Feel free to ask us anything. Unlike most BPD'ers, I am self aware of my disorder, therefore I can explain a lot as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sanity said:


> This is going to sound harsh but is your life worth this potential misery? Be thankful you have seen this before you got too involved. This is one of those times where being selfish will literally save your life. Run! don't walk away from these people including your BF.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its not harsh Sanity, its ok really. You're right my life isn't worth the potential misery. I am glad I'm seeing these things early on, and I do not plan on staying with him. I already feel somewhat drained, I couldn't imagine living my life like that.


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