# Oh No, not me too.....



## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Recently I have done so well with "manning up", but something still didn't add up...

Well, I have today (as it got the better of me), got into her phone account.

Their are reams and reams of the same phone number with patterns on when communication takes place...

I have some evidence here, and it better be explanatory or their WILL be fireworks

I can't believe I seem to have stumbled across what maybe an EA (I know their is no possibility of a PA), but WTF...

My heart as sunk and I was doing so well, I just hope this is simple, but my gut feeling is it won't be


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hopefully you have had the opportunity to read posts from individuals in similar circumstances.

Keep in mind, your wife went looking for something that she wasn't getting from you.

You are a contributor to the circumstances, like it or not.

Be calm. Be firm.

Hope for the best. Expect the worst.

Check out AffairCare's sticky in the Coping with Infidelity forum.


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

Do not confront her with the evidence yet.
Continue digging.
Go WAY back and look at cell records etc.
Install a keylogger on her comp.
Install GPS on the car.
Get 2 voice activated recorders.....one for the car and one for wherever she talks most in the house.

Please be prepared....it may be a PA too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil,

No matter what, there's no reason to back off on the things you're doing for yourself.

If there's something to detonate here, you want to be the most attractive option going forward.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Well, what can I say, but Phew!

I know who is on the other end of this phone number, and it is innocent. Thank God.

This afternoon has seen me hit hights I never knew existed. Never would I have been calm in this situation, but out it all came.

We have both learned a lot this afternoon, and she thoroughly accepts the lengths I went to, and why, and how it could look, their are no hard feelings about this from her she said she understood why I have been driven to this checking.

Finally we may be able to go forward and sort this once and for all.

And she is clear in no uncertain terms too, that If I end up in this position again (being dragged to the sort of snooping I have done) and we end up with the same issues, the next conversation will be how we go our seperate ways (this is what I didn't think I had in me).

This certainly seemed to give her the "kick" she needed.

So hopefully she can work on her side too, and I know she does see the changes in me (She listed half of them without me prompting).

Here is to hoping we never end up in this position again,

oh, and Conrad, cheers, I will never stop working on myself, I have had huge benefits from it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil,

Go ahead and post this one in the "Victories" thread.

Black Medicine is getting lonely over there.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Neil,
> 
> Go ahead and post this one in the "Victories" thread.
> 
> Black Medicine is getting lonely over there.


I don't want to claim victory just yet, we have had some nervy tense moments since I posted that.

It even went the complete opposite when she said she couldn't figure if she loved me or not (Gulp) and even tried to imagine what she would think if I was to walk past with someone else and she couldn't figure what she would think....

I made her realise, that their are plenty "out their" that would gladly step in her shoes and even gave an example (from what I picked up off another thread about that she can be replaced).

I am sad to report that a lot of my "manning up" went down the drain too around this, but hey, we did work out for the better big time last night.

She also began to "open up" which is the biggest thing to achieve out of this. She could not understand why she did not feel "so into me" like she used to when we first got togther. (Never thought she would come out and say anything about her mind/feelings) I mean, what the hell, after 10 years???? No wonder. She seams to have mistaken this for falling out of love (is what I tried to explain) and also the fact that over the years.

our "heart to heart" resulted in her showing me affection/love to me like she hasn't done in years (it felt so good to have this feeling back). She also said that her questioning her love for me was daft, and that she does love me. Needless to say, this resulted in the kids having an "early night"... and probably the best "session" we have had in years :smthumbup: 

However, this morning started off not as well, (maybe tiredness) and this morning felt me yearning for some "Contact", I tried so hard not to (but their was a valid reason I had to too). She seemed a little down again, but said before I could work it out, that the kids were not helping her this morning and it was a bit stressfull.

So, I THINK we will be ok, but it seems I need her to work on her "Communication" and trying to "open up" (which all said and done, is the biggest thing to cause us problems). She did so well yesterday, but I need to try and understand how hard it is for her (hell she even said she wanted to "loosen up in bed" another milestone to say the least)...

I have also breifly mentioned the "5 love languages" and gave her the concept, and told her I would like us to try it out, she seemed a little wary, but accepted, I hope this helps her on herside and that I don't get any surprises (can't not help can it?)

So, I think we need to "breath" a little, take it all in and slowly build ourselves up. I think our real work is now beginning.

Wish me luck

(Reminder to self, Keep Manning up)


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Niel...
The hardest thing for me to realize in my journey was that even if your wife is grumpy or withdrawn, not to take it personally. Honestly, I used the mantra..."I'm the only one responsible for my own happiness, even if you are grumpy, etc....". And I would continue on my day like it was the best day ever.

Do you find that your still looking for affirmation that your wife loves you all the time, and that if she doesn't continuously show it, you get nervous or down? I did this a lot on the start of my journey. But for me, that wasn't really manning up..that was still the nice guy in me talking. Now, there could be two or three days where my wife is withdrawn a bit, and I continue to be the happiest person around, and I make sure she can see that her moods are not bothering me. This is when I turn down the thermometer a bit. Still upbeat, and a kiss on the neck once in a while as I'm passing, but not too overly affectionate. Then, all of a sudden, she will get all lovey on me and will be for days. I don't know, maybe her low moods over a few days is a kind of test, to see if I am still going to take her moods personally or if it really doesn't bother me. Not sure, but whatever I'm doing is working for me right now.

I mean, her low moods are probably even legit, where she's working something out in her head. I sometimes ask if anything is on her mind. Sometimes she tells, sometimes not. But when she does I will just listen intently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Hi Niel...
> The hardest thing for me to realize in my journey was that even if your wife is grumpy or withdrawn, not to take it personally. Honestly, I used the mantra..."I'm the only one responsible for my own happiness, even if you are grumpy, etc....". And I would continue on my day like it was the best day ever.
> 
> Do you find that your still looking for affirmation that your wife loves you all the time, and that if she doesn't continuously show it, you get nervous or down? I did this a lot on the start of my journey. But for me, that wasn't really manning up..that was still the nice guy in me talking. Now, there could be two or three days where my wife is withdrawn a bit, and I continue to be the happiest person around, and I make sure she can see that her moods are not bothering me. This is when I turn down the thermometer a bit. Still upbeat, and a kiss on the neck once in a while as I'm passing, but not too overly affectionate. Then, all of a sudden, she will get all lovey on me and will be for days. I don't know, maybe her low moods over a few days is a kind of test, to see if I am still going to take her moods personally or if it really doesn't bother me. Not sure, but whatever I'm doing is working for me right now.
> ...



Yes, sounds like your reading my mind LOL,

I know I have made hugh strides these last few weeks, but had a couple of blips (to be expected, i can't change everything permenantly over night) but mostly, I have hit lots of new ways of working and she also admitted to me that my last few weeks have been really good for her (So she is noticing and and liking me for it)

I will still work on it definately, what I am wary of doing is manning up too much (if you like), but then completely miss the boat when she does want/need me to listen, I think thats what scares me the most that I then come off as this complete a$$hole because I was too much into manning myself up.

Hopefully that made sense


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That makes perfect sense. I think the same way too sometimes. But for me, I just had to realize manning up didn't mean I was a total authoritarian and d!ck. I still treat my wife with the utmost respect and would never think of not doing that. But again, that doesn't mean I get walked over like a mat, either. I started to treat this like a sports game, where you always play your best at all times. That way, I find I'm always upbeat now and not much gets me down anymore, which really showed strength to my wife that I am my own person, and am reliable and do what I say, and can run defense when I need to. It may be a strange way to think about it, but it worked for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Niel,
I read a book called "for men only". It's about women of course. It helped me understand when a woman wants you to listen, and when she really wants advise. Of course, if you don't want to read the book, just take the stance that you ALWAYS listen first. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Niel,
> I read a book called "for men only". It's about women of course. It helped me understand when a woman wants you to listen, and when she really wants advise. Of course, if you don't want to read the book, just take the stance that you ALWAYS listen first. Lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Have no fear, Always listen will be my way anyway.

Just didn't ever realise how much can be in language itself especially how its said, what is in it and the way it is expressed.

Its a realisation that I am not as far forward as I thought, maybe thats a good thing for me at the moment


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Neil,
Well done. 

I have some excellent news for you. Disclaimer: I am a realist, not an optimist. 

She loves you. She respects you. This places her one short step (emotionally) from being "in love" with you. While that "in love" thing has natural cycles, you can absolutely amplify it. 
- Decrease or eliminate the amount of non-critical intra-day touch points - let her MISS you a bit
- When you ARE with her - ease up on saying ILY and excel at showing her you love her - WITHOUT staring at her to get the reaction. In fact sometimes my W gives me this completely "melted look" and says "God I love you" right after I pulled off some clever little thing - and I just give her this slightly puzzled smile that says "I am glad - not exactly sure why you are saying that". This is me non-verbally doing the "I am bringing my A game - and I do that for ME, glad you like it"
- Do some things that are different - and difficult or scary or exciting. Shared positive experience is SO powerful. 
- Play around with being playfully physically aggressive with her. This can be as simple as teasing her lightly in the bedroom - and when she responds - laughing and tackling her down onto the bed. 
- And of course - humor or cold silence when she fit tests you

You are building on a great foundation. 



Neil said:


> I don't want to claim victory just yet, we have had some nervy tense moments since I posted that.
> 
> It even went the complete opposite when she said she couldn't figure if she loved me or not (Gulp) and even tried to imagine what she would think if I was to walk past with someone else and she couldn't figure what she would think....
> 
> ...


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Neil,
> Well done.
> 
> I have some excellent news for you. Disclaimer: I am a realist, not an optimist.
> ...




Thanks MEM, think it was just the boost I needed and some good tips their I wll be working with and implementing.

We have not been bad, but not excellent over the weekend. My parents see a big difference in her (ie more "Chatty" and more "Upbeat"), so something is working.

I really need to rid myself of the "neediness".

I approached the "5 languages" on Friday night, we took the test (in humour too). I could see she was very wary about the answers she put, until I told her I knew what language she would be at, so not be offended about what she put, I alredy knew which she would go for. So honesty she went with, thankfully she came out highest on "acts of service" (10), and then equally with Words of Affimation, Physical Touch (6) and then quality time (5) and then Gifts (3) (I think they were the scores.

She looked at me, and I said, dont worry, I knew you would come out with that and then told her and showed her what I had been doing this last few weeks to speak her language.

She jumped with joy, grabbed my face, gave me a kiss and shouted out "finally, you understand it".

She was not as "into" my test, but tried to 2nd guess what I would select, she had most of them right, but one or 2 suprised her. Not suprisingly I came out top, Pysical Touch (10) and then Quality Time, Words of Affirmation and (6 each) and then Gifts (3) and Acts of Service (2) (Broadly speaking I think thats what they were).

We have jokingly referred to these over the weekend, and she made a real effort Friday Night and Saturday, but then gradually slips back to not keeping her side but at least she acknowledges what we both need to do. (I wish I had printed the results and descriptions and stuck them on the fridge, not for my side, but for a reminder to her). I also re-assured her at what I was doing and how searious I was to our relationship being happy and that we work well, she responded "I know how serious you are". Even on Sunday, she stopped me, told me to sit down, and that I didn't have to do all this (ie Acts of Service), she can do things. And a general conversation about it got her thinking that maybe she was an "acts of service" person, because she sees her dad doing it for her mother.

I think we are on the verge of good things, and I need to stop snooping, their really is nothing their for me to find. I just think I need to be confident, decisive and all the things manning up involves and rid my self of the neediness and I'm sure we will be very happy...

I really wish I could switch off this insecure feeling I have built up.

Let's see how I fair tonight, and I am not seeing any "Tests" (or any that I could recognise, as I am trying humour on anything I feel a little bit wary about...


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Oh and just now (litterally within the last minute or two), received a text to say she was on her dinner break at work...

Thats a good sign, I was not going to try and get in touch as we always have difficulty getting in touch on Monday's, so I was going to leave it as with all other days, but this clearly is sent to me to get in touch....


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Neil said:


> Oh and just now (litterally within the last minute or two), received a text to say she was on her dinner break at work...
> 
> Thats a good sign, I was not going to try and get in touch as we always have difficulty getting in touch on Monday's, so I was going to leave it as with all other days, but this clearly is sent to me to get in touch....


And we have an excellent conversation, no negativity whatsoever, me being very confident, we laugh a little, and talk about the few chores we have to do later, I come across as taking the lead on how we approach it, she responds well and basically agrees. Nice!

Also seem to have another breakthrough, she refers to her health (she gets headaches a hell of a lot) Yes, I took this as being, "get lost", but she says she has given some thought to my concerns, and is seeking some medical attention at work and to try different remedies (so I suppose its a Sorry love for not believing you, of course I didn't say it)

Talked about a few changes to her working hours this week, all positive, to the point where I mistook one of her "days", and said, well, wednesday, you do X,Y,Z and it gets you out of the house and to do some things for yourself. She responds well, but said I was talking about friday, but i'll have a think (the type of ersponse she used to give, when I said do something yourself, but then she doesn't to be with me). But my neediness was Out of the way and it proved. So she may take me up on that, and if she does, great, she will relax a little, if not, great, I get her time.

We parted the call, very well, and I jokingly said, see ya sexy ass later, she chuckles and say's love you bye.

I feel 100 times better, I will move in for the kill tonight and try the "passionate 10 second kiss" routine, just for the hell of it


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

On the way home, receive anotehr text, simply one sticking the tongue out. I respond saying how did you guess thats what I am going to do tonight, she says, your dirty (smiley face) I say you make me dirty.

I get the kids, pick her up from work, and we go a little late night shopping. Everything is fine and happy. I say, right, the kids can come with me (whilst in a shop) while I pick myself some new shoes (asserting myself and not asking like I used to do if it would be ok). She responds, leave the kids with me and then you can have a look without distractions. Nice! I buy them, we go home, everything again is really good.

I help with things around the house and kids (the new "acts of service me") and we have a really good evening. She then says (and has recently started with this) i'm going up to bed, are you coming with me?

SO we are in bed, I go for the 10 second kiss as previously mentioned and then leave her. She ddn't actively respond, but the fact she let me and didn't stop me was enough to give me the cue.

Cue, stay relaxed, "I am relaxed", I told you my tongue was out tonight. WE have another amazing "session". WE fall asleep in each others arms (something we haven't done for years).

This morning, we get woken by the alarm and kids at the same time. She is very tired, and tells the eldest, your daddy kept me awake last night, I responded by saying, you didn't think about that last night did ya (in a joking manner). Test???? don't know, but she smiled with my response.

And today, she has sent me a long winded novel by text telling me how her day is, and right at the end, says "And.. I love you x"...

I am now a few more days of this (just to be sure, although I think we are definately motoring along very nicely) and I will proudly pop this into the "Trophy Case" thread.


Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I feel like a king again


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Most awesome, Niel!

This is just great! I'm glad your journey is paying off in dividends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil said:


> On the way home, receive anotehr text, simply one sticking the tongue out. I respond saying how did you guess thats what I am going to do tonight, she says, your dirty (smiley face) I say you make me dirty.
> 
> I get the kids, pick her up from work, and we go a little late night shopping. Everything is fine and happy. I say, right, the kids can come with me (whilst in a shop) while I pick myself some new shoes (asserting myself and not asking like I used to do if it would be ok). She responds, leave the kids with me and then you can have a look without distractions. Nice! I buy them, we go home, everything again is really good.
> 
> ...


Neil,

You may not have gotten 11000 page views, but it's all smiles here

Congrats.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Neil,
> 
> You may not have gotten 11000 page views, but it's all smiles here
> 
> Congrats.



And it gets better, she is more "touchy, feely", saying ILY more and more and even last night went out with her mum for a few hours, and spent the whole time sending messages to me.

We have now turned this corner, and I can see the "love" in her coming back and loud and clear.

Now is the time for the trophey case

PS, I am thoroughly enjoying me and being me again, and even the "New Parts" of me


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil said:


> And it gets better, she is more "touchy, feely", saying ILY more and more and even last night went out with her mum for a few hours, and spent the whole time sending messages to me.
> 
> We have now turned this corner, and I can see the "love" in her coming back and loud and clear.
> 
> ...


Stay the course brother.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is the "real deal". Well done Sir.




Neil said:


> And it gets better, she is more "touchy, feely", saying ILY more and more and even last night went out with her mum for a few hours, and spent the whole time sending messages to me.
> 
> We have now turned this corner, and I can see the "love" in her coming back and loud and clear.
> 
> ...


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Stay the course brother.


No worries on that score...

Now I understand it all, I won't let this course be "re-directed"

My head is so clear on all this now, and I can look back on that last 10 years and understand everything that has happened and why (and even before that with previous relationships)

I really wish other people out their took the time to understand all this, it would save a hell of a lot of heartache and marriages


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