# Needing some thoughts



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey guys!

I need some of your awesome thoughts on some relationship stuff that's been bugging me. History: I've been dating BF for just over 2.5 years; he has 2 daughters: one is 10 and is technically staying 1 week with him, 1 week with her Mom. The other (adopted) daughter is 16, has dropped out of school 3x, lives with her Mom and is going down the same path as her Mom unfortunately (smoking pot, drinking, etc). She's a nice kid and I really like her, but she really needs to have a come-to-Jesus moment to get back on track.

So, what kicked this off happened this past week. BF's youngest was supposed to go back to her Mom's on Sunday, but wasn't feeling well and her Mom didn't want her over there in case she had Covid. Note: Mom and oldest girl are both fully vaccinated; BF is not and has a heart condition. He did get his first vaccine this week though. Another note: youngest girl spends probably 75-80% of her time with her Dad, and when him and I are together, she calls a LOT, like probably 2-3x during an evening, and if he doesn't pick up, she calls over and over again until he does pick up.

She's a good kid, but hasn't been taught very many skills that someone her age should probably know: don't call someone 15x; if they don't pick up, they're busy. Leave a message or text for them to call you back. She doesn't cut her own meat or hard food. Doesn't help out around the house by doing simple tasks like cleaning her room or picking up after herself. She also still sleeps with her Dad (and probably her Mom too), but that's now down to 1 night during the weeks he has her.

So, youngest stayed with him this week again and tested positive for Covid. She's doing really well, and only has minor symptoms, thank God. BF and her are moving at the end of the month, and now he's sick too (from vaccine, hopefully). Her isolation is done next week Wednesday, and they move on Thursday. BF has taken 3 weeks off work I believe during the summer for his youngest while she's on summer break, and this week marks another week that he's off work. I worry for his job. I know that he just wants to make sure that she has the best care possible, and I 100% commend him for that, BUT, it shouldn't always be up to him. At some point, her mother needs to step up.

I know that the Mom isn't a good Mom or role model (doesn't work, smokes pot, drinks excessively and used to be into cocaine (doing and selling). Being that she doesn't work and the oldest is at home as well, I believe that the youngest could have gone there this week to live instead of her Dad having to take more time off and has now gotten sick. Am I wrong to think that? I mean, if he's that horrid of a mother, the youngest shouldn't be allowed to go over there at all.

A major issue that I'm also struggling with is that as I've gotten to know BF more and more, I realize that he's not a do-er. He sees a problem, he talks and complains about it, but does nothing about it. Example: he's exhausted from running to get his youngest from her Mom's all the time, but won't put his foot down and tell her "no, not tonight, I'm sorry". He's the yes-man to both his girls and his XW who walk all over him, but has no problem telling me no. He will say no to them as well, but it never seems to stick; he'll eventually give in. Example: him, his youngest and I were headed to a playground this past summer, she was talking back a lot, pushing buttons. He said to her that if she talks back one more time, we were going to go back home. So, she talked back 3 more times, and he still took her to the playground. I've seen it time and time again that she can misbehave and doesn't get reprimanded; she gets rewarded. 🤷‍♀️

He's admitted to parenting out of guilt because he feels guilty for leaving his girls, and he recognizes that this needs to change. Thing is that he's been recognizing this since I met him, and nothing has really changed much. We're planning on me moving in with him and his youngest in the near future, and I've told him that he needs to start putting his foot down with his girls and his XW before I move in, otherwise I cannot move in.

I was in a marriage where my H had a lot of control in my life, and I won't let someone's XW control our lives. Am I wrong to feel this way about his youngest and his XW? All 3 tend to walk all over him. I don't want to hurt him by beating a dead horse on this subject, but something really does need to change, or I will walk away. I don't want to do that, because I really do care about him and his kids, and I'd really like to work through this. Any thoughts or advice is welcome. Thanks!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Holy ****, sorry, that was really long!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember your threads about him when you began dating. I felt his parenting pattern spelled trouble for a future with him. This is who he is. I’d think awhile before deciding whether to live with him.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

We all know your an awesome classy woman but I honestly believe you are completely fooling yourself to think he will change because you move in. You are setting yourself up for disappointment and unfortunately exhibiting that classic female “I will change him” disease.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Personally, I don't see anything to work through - unless he's initiating and bringing up the changes. 

Otherwise, it seems more like you want to fix him, which won't work long term.

You see him for who he is. Do you accept him? If he were to never change a thing, would that be okay with you?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Openminded, yes, I’ve noticed this for awhile, but way back then, I didn’t want to bring it up because we were so new, and I wasn’t aware of all that was going on; perhaps it was just a phase. If it’s a phase though, it’s a very long one! I have 2 elderly dogs at home, 1 with kidney disease, who’s health goes up and down a bit. They both love BF and his youngest, but I still cannot move my boy. His stress levels need to be kept on the low side. So, I will be living on my own for some time yet.

Aw thanks, @Mr.Married! I don’t think he’ll change IF I move in; I need to see this change happening before we get to that point, otherwise, I will stay in my own home. I can’t change him; he’s a very sweet man, but is very hard headed.

@minimalME, I agree, he won’t change unless he really wants to. I think it will have to be something pretty drastic to make him realize that he needs to make the changes. Like, another heart attack from the stress of trying to people please all the time. I don’t want to fix him, and know that I cannot anyways. He needs to change because he wants to, not because his GF suggests it. I do accept him as he is, but I cannot live with him or take that next step if the changes aren’t made, or at least in the works.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ursula, has he done a covid test? Sounds as if he may have caught it off his daughter.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Ursula, has he done a covid test? Sounds as if he may have caught it off his daughter.


That's what I'm afraid of, and have looked up the possible side effects of the Moderna vaccine. He's experiencing those, but they say that it shouldn't last for more than 2 days. Today is Day #2, so here's hoping that if he's still feeling gross tomorrow, he'll go for a test. He hasn't gotten one at this point, but I sure wish he would!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It takes some time after the vaccination to be effective. Two weeks, I believe. If he had the vaccination after he was exposed to her, or even less than two weeks before he was, that is likely too late not to catch it from her. Especially if it was only the first of the two vaccinations. Even after both, he still could have caught it from her since there are lots of breakthrough cases occurring after both. I had my booster a couple of weeks ago since I’m high risk and only now am I beginning to venture out freely (with a mask) again.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ursula said:


> @minimalME, I agree, he won’t change unless he really wants to. I think it will have to be something pretty drastic to make him realize that he needs to make the changes. Like, another heart attack from the stress of trying to people please all the time. I don’t want to fix him, and know that I cannot anyways. He needs to change because he wants to, not because his GF suggests it. I do accept him as he is, but I cannot live with him or take that next step if the changes aren’t made, or at least in the works.


I really liked the post from @minimalME

Your response does still indicate to me that you do not accept him as he is, as you need changes to be made or in progress before moving in.

By the way, I think it’s okay to identify within yourself what is compatible with you or not. It then depends on what you do with that. Based on what you wrote, it seems there could be aspects of his behavior that you do not respect and likely to impact your relationship on the daily.

For what it’s worth, I’d be easing up on planning to move in.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi Ursula,
That sounds like a lot of drama to get in the middle of! What stood out to me was he has no problem telling *you* no but yes to his ex and kids, which shows you where you are in the pecking order.

I get that for single parents, their kids are their primary responsibility, but I wouldn't take kindly to a man putting me below his ex, for whatever reason, it's not your problem she's an addict and can't run her life. You mentioned adult dogs, do you have kids?

Honestly, this man might drive you nuts if you all move in together and you see his passivity up close while embroiled in baby-mama-drama with his addict ex. How about maintaining a LAT relationship until his kids are grown? How old are they? I'm eyeballing a similar situation with my bf, but his youngest is nearly 17.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

“I do accept him for who he is…”

No….no you do not. He’s showing you who he is. 


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I remember this from the beginning as well. This is who he is and this is their dynamic. This isn’t going to change. So if this is something you can’t deal or live with, it’s best for you to move on. Don’t waste as many years as I did knowing it’s not going to work in the long run. Put yourself first. 


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

He's not going to change. You either accept him, his girls and his ex or you walk away. 

To tell you the truth, I don't know why you are still dating him. The baggage is to much to carry.


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

Ursula said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I need some of your awesome thoughts on some relationship stuff that's been bugging me. History: I've been dating BF for just over 2.5 years; he has 2 daughters: one is 10 and is technically staying 1 week with him, 1 week with her Mom. The other (adopted) daughter is 16, has dropped out of school 3x, lives with her Mom and is going down the same path as her Mom unfortunately (smoking pot, drinking, etc). She's a nice kid and I really like her, but she really needs to have a come-to-Jesus moment to get back on track.
> 
> ...


I could've written 80% of this post. I stayed in a 22-year marriage with an abusive husband because I wanted to become financially independent and I wanted to protect the children from his abuse. Last year I ended an 18-month relationship with a sweet, educated, hard-working and wealthy man because of the same problem you are going through. He was ready to propose, but I asked him not to. In my marriage I had tolerated a lot of s***t for my children's sake, and I worked hard to become independent, so I was not going to restart the same experience to be caught in a situation where his children and EXW treat him like their ATM machine, while we were maintaining a relationship of equals. I was happy seeing him on weekends, but I knew I was not going to have a happy marriage with him considering that I had to deal with his family's drama. We broke up and I don't regret it a bit. My children respect boundaries and I have no drama with my ex. We are out of each other's lives for good. I read a lot about this dynamic, and it sounds like a majority of divorced fathers are haunted by guilt, and out of this guilt they allow everything and anything coming from their exes and kids. Your bf will not change, and I think you deserve much better than this.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@heartsbeating and @Elizabeth001, no, I guess I don’t accept him the way he is, but I feel like it’s more situational than directly related to him as a person. But yeah, he’s the problem in the situation, so yeah, you’re right, I don’t accept him or things as they are. Heartsbeating, I’m definitely easing up on plans to move in. I have 2 elderly pups anyways, who need their Mama, and he also has a much younger and larger dog who I love, but mine are still unsure of her, so we’re staying put. 

@TXTrini, yes, this is what this situation makes me feel like: far down on the pecking order. I realize that his kids come first, and it should be that way (to an extent, anyways), but he does need to prioritize us sometimes, and he certainly needs to prioritize us well before the needs of his XW who is the reason for his heart attack a few years ago. I don’t have kids, just 2 furry ones, aged 13 and 14 who are still doing fantastic, thank God, despite my 14 year old’s canine kidney disease. I had to google LAT relationship, but yes, that’s my plan for the time being. We do care about one another, and I care about his kids, and really would like to build a future with them, BUT I need to see how things are going to go in the near future. His kids are 10 and 16; the 16 year old lives with her Mom, the 10 year old will live with us, primarily. I like her, we get along well and she’s excited about me moving in.

@pastasauce79, I can accept him and his girls, but really don’t feel the need to accept anything about an ex-spouse who treated him like garbage. It is a LOT of baggage, and I’m dating him because he’s a genuinely kind and caring person, and unfortunately, that’s really hard to find these days. 

@coquille, thanks for your post; it hit home, and I’m so glad that you’ve found your happiness, and didn’t get yourself into a situation that you would regret.

So, I’ve spoken to him, and relayed some of my concerns. At this point, I know that his stress levels are through the roof given: dealing with Covid within his home, being ill himself, planning a move next week with zero help because all of his help (me included) bailed on him due to his girl having Covid. It’s a bloody lot to deal with in one go. So, I’m going to cut him some slack for the immediate future, but did let him know my concerns, and that it was a rather large concern for our future, and that a couple of changes would need to be made and put into action before I would consider moving in. He understands, and is aware that he needs to change things up (his folks and brother have talked to him about this too, apparently). It’s just a matter of actually doing it. So, I will give him some time to move, and get him and his girl settled, and then see where things go from there. Finding someone you click with well isn’t easy, and it took 1.5 years of OLD and meeting well over 100 men before I met him. Things felt comfortable and homey with him pretty fast, and that’s also a challenge to find, so I feel like I want to give this the best go possible, and then judge things from there. I know what I deserve though, and if that doesn’t happen, I’m OK with parting ways.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Well over 100 men .... Wow !!!! That’s almost 6 a month. You weren’t messing around


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You are settling and he won't change because his kids come first. That's the reality, IMO. So, you accept him for what he is (and his baggage) or just drop him now. No point in trying and change him. He won't.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

IIRC, you had a similar talk with him before when you were ready to walk? What changed to make you stay?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ursula said:


> She's a good kid, but hasn't been taught very many skills that someone her age should probably know: don't call someone 15x; if they don't pick up, they're busy. Leave a message or text for them to call you back. She doesn't cut her own meat or hard food. Doesn't help out around the house by doing simple tasks like cleaning her room or picking up after herself. She also still sleeps with her Dad (and probably her Mom too), but that's now down to 1 night during the weeks he has her.


This is really, really bad parenting. If he really loved her, he would raise her rather than just infantilize her. At this rate, the kid will never grow up and move out of the house. He is shirking his duty as a father.

You say he is kind. No, he is just too lazy to actually do something. 

Do you feel awash in kindness when he puts the wants of his ex and kids above you?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ursula said:


> @heartsbeating and @Elizabeth001, no, I guess I don’t accept him the way he is, but I feel like it’s more situational than directly related to him as a person. But yeah, he’s the problem in the situation, so yeah, you’re right, I don’t accept him or things as they are. Heartsbeating, I’m definitely easing up on plans to move in. I have 2 elderly pups anyways, who need their Mama, and he also has a much younger and larger dog who I love, but mine are still unsure of her, so we’re staying put.
> 
> @TXTrini, yes, this is what this situation makes me feel like: far down on the pecking order. I realize that his kids come first, and it should be that way (to an extent, anyways), but he does need to prioritize us sometimes, and he certainly needs to prioritize us well before the needs of his XW who is the reason for his heart attack a few years ago. I don’t have kids, just 2 furry ones, aged 13 and 14 who are still doing fantastic, thank God, despite my 14 year old’s canine kidney disease. I had to google LAT relationship, but yes, that’s my plan for the time being. We do care about one another, and I care about his kids, and really would like to build a future with them, BUT I need to see how things are going to go in the near future. His kids are 10 and 16; the 16 year old lives with her Mom, the 10 year old will live with us, primarily. I like her, we get along well and she’s excited about me moving in.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately dating a single parent as a childless woman means you will never come first with him, it's the same thing men complain about when they don't want to date a single mother. Ok, so that's fine for young kids, but NOT to come below an ex, that would be it for me. 

Passivity is fine until it isn't, if he's being passive not to fuel the fire, fine, but if it's b/c he doesn't want to deal with conflict, total dealbreaker. Pushovers are contemptible, and scary, b/c it means he can direct those same tactics at you if you have conflict he doesn't want to deal with and drive you nuts. 

The 10 y/o you described might be a great kid, but those things she does that are pandered to and tacitly encouraged sound really ****ty to deal with and I personally wouldn't be able to stand living with that. Quite frankly not cutting up meat and being annoying at 10 yrs old is ridiculous, she sounds like a giant baby. Can you imagine her as a teenager the first time she doesn't get her way? Yikes!

I won't go as far as to say you're settling b/c I don't know your bf, and I'd love to see how perfect people who easily disparage others are. However, can you deal with all of this 100% of the time? Do you want to? Could you ever see a time when you'd have to pick up the slack to make extra decisions for a child who's not yours whose mother might come at you for it, then watch him be passive? I know there are people who'll say lots of people step up to be great stepparents, and that's great... for them. To me, it seems like additional conflict for extra stress, until they all side against you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> Unfortunately dating a single parent as a childless woman means you will never come first with him...


Not always true, my husband puts me first. I also put him first. Doesn't mean his daughter is neglected in any way, and her needs of course come first, but her wants don't.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

frusdil said:


> Not always true, my husband puts me first. I also put him first. Doesn't mean his daughter is neglected in any way, and her needs of course come first, but her wants don't.


You're a very lucky woman. I don't know your backstory, but I've seen a lot of men and women get burned dating single parents who say straight out their kids always come first no matter what. It seems to be the prevailing culture of the day.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> You're a very lucky woman. I don't know your backstory, but I've seen a lot of men and women get burned dating single parents who say straight out their kids always come first no matter what. It seems to be the prevailing culture of the day.


100% agree. I see it all the time too, and frankly, those parents are failing the kids in spades.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> You're a very lucky woman. I don't know your backstory, but I've seen a lot of men and women get burned dating single parents who say straight out their kids always come first no matter what. It seems to be the prevailing culture of the day.


Yes, many do tend to put them first and that can continue even when the children grow up and have children of their own. That ends up being a no-win situation for anyone involved with them.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> This is really, really bad parenting. If he really loved her, he would raise her rather than just infantilize her. At this rate, the kid will never grow up and move out of the house. He is shirking his duty as a father.
> 
> You say he is kind. No, he is just too lazy to actually do something.
> 
> *Do you feel awash in kindness when he puts the wants of his ex and kids above you?*


Oh, I know he's doing her no favours, and is setting his youngest up for a really hard and sad future if things don't change fast. And he needs to put his kids above us, but he also needs to put us ahead of them sometimes too. What I feel when he puts his ex above me is the polar opposite of kindness.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

TXTrini said:


> Unfortunately dating a single parent as a childless woman means you will never come first with him, it's the same thing men complain about when they don't want to date a single mother. Ok, so that's fine for young kids, but NOT to come below an ex, that would be it for me.
> 
> Passivity is fine until it isn't, if he's being passive not to fuel the fire, fine, but if it's b/c he doesn't want to deal with conflict, total dealbreaker. Pushovers are contemptible, and scary, b/c it means he can direct those same tactics at you if you have conflict he doesn't want to deal with and drive you nuts.
> 
> ...


No, I cannot imagine his youngest as a teenager to be honest; her mental maturity level is more of a 5 or 6 year old than a 10 year old. At this moment, I don't know if I'm settling. I do know that my mind runs rampant when we don't get to spend time together, and at this time, he's living with someone who has Covid, and I believe that he also has Covid at this point because he's still unwell from his shot almost a week ago now. I don't think he's ill from the shot. If a situation like you describe happened, I would like to think he'd side with me and stand up for me, but in all honesty I don't know because we've never been in that situation. It would be stressful though, and highly not worth it if he took his XW's side instead of mine.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Well over 100 men .... Wow !!!! That’s almost 6 a month. You weren’t messing around


Haha, no I wasn't! Many were just 1 meet up "date", but there were some who had more than 1 date.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> You are settling and he won't change because his kids come first. That's the reality, IMO. So, you accept him for what he is (and his baggage) or just drop him now. No point in trying and change him. He won't.


Thanks, I needed to hear that, point blank. I still know that right now he's under extreme stress, so I'm still going to give it a couple month after he moves to see how things settle. If they start to settle down, that's wonderful, if they remain the same, that's not wonderful, and something will be done.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Openminded said:


> IIRC, you had a similar talk with him before when you were ready to walk? What changed to make you stay?


I have had a couple of chats with him about this before, and apparently so have his folks and brother. What made me change my mind was that he said that he planned on changing his ways, and he did for awhile. I realize that his youngest has been through a lot, not just the divorce and bouncing back and forth between homes, and an addicted mother. But, she was abused by her older cousin as well (inappropriate touching). This cousin has admitted to doing this once, but it happened more than once; he has since been charged. But, babying a tween isn't the way to go about supporting her. I also stayed because he's the best man that I've found, and I'm really not sure what that's saying at this point!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Ursula said:


> I also stayed because he's the best man that I've found, and I'm really not sure what that's saying at this point!


If you choose to stay, are you prepared to be the one to change? With no resentment?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

minimalME said:


> If you choose to stay, are you prepared to be the one to change? With no resentment?


No. So far, I've had a lot of patience and understanding, and I'm running out of both of those.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sorry to say, but it was predictable that he would promise to change, do a little bit temporarily, and then revert. I have decades of experience with that, unfortunately. I’m sure there are people who can and do make permanent changes but I have never known any. It takes a lot of motivation to change and it’s work that most don’t want to do. Easier to just let things slide. He’ll keep promising as long as you let him. I lived that life for a very long time and I don’t recommend it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I also stayed because my husband was by far the greatest guy I had met. And the truth is that in very many ways he’s still the greatest guy I’ve ever met. But there were serious problems that he chose not to work on and, long after I should have, I had to give up. If you reach the point that you’re done, be prepared for him to promise you the moon to stay. My husband did and I bought it the first time. The second time I got out. It wasn’t easy because I didn’t want to but I needed to. You’ll know when it’s time.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

It's really hard to decide where to draw the line sometimes with people, especially when love involves sacrifice sometimes. Do you feel he considers you similarly? Does he make sacrifices for you too, or are you the only one always giving way to his needs or the fallout of his passivity? 

If it's a two-way street and this is something you can deal with because he comes through for you in other ways, I could see a compromise happening. However, it doesn't sound like that at all, you seem unhappy. Have you told him exactly how his actions affect you? That you were considering breaking up over this?



Ursula said:


> No, I cannot imagine his youngest as a teenager to be honest; her mental maturity level is more of a 5 or 6 year old than a 10 year old. At this moment, I don't know if I'm settling. I do know that my mind runs rampant when we don't get to spend time together, and at this time, he's living with someone who has Covid, and I believe that he also has Covid at this point because he's still unwell from his shot almost a week ago now. I don't think he's ill from the shot. If a situation like you describe happened, I would like to think he'd side with me and stand up for me, but in all honesty I don't know because we've never been in that situation. It would be stressful though, and highly not worth it if he took his XW's side instead of mine.


I get it, that's a lot at once and you don't want to kick someone when they're down. A few months doesn't really make much difference at this point, at least you'll make up your mind one way or the other and have no regrets if you decide to walk.



Ursula said:


> I have had a couple of chats with him about this before, and apparently so have his folks and brother. What made me change my mind was that he said that he planned on changing his ways, and he did for awhile. I realize that his youngest has been through a lot, not just the divorce and bouncing back and forth between homes, and an addicted mother. But, *she was abused by her older cousin as well (inappropriate touching). This cousin has admitted to doing this once, but it happened more than once; he has since been charged. *But, babying a tween isn't the way to go about supporting her. I also stayed because he's the best man that I've found, and I'm really not sure what that's saying at this point!


How horrible! No wonder she's stuck in baby mode and everyone's spoiling her. Has she had counseling? I honestly have no idea how to overcome these issues with this involved.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Ursula said:


> I also stayed because he's the best man that I've found, and I'm really not sure what that's saying at this point!



Yeah…..uhhhhh….nooooooo.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

i have no idea how to do the broken up quotes that you did in your reply, so I just put my replies to you in red.



TXTrini said:


> It's really hard to decide where to draw the line sometimes with people, especially when love involves sacrifice sometimes. Do you feel he considers you similarly? Does he make sacrifices for you too, or are you the only one always giving way to his needs or the fallout of his passivity?
> 
> Oh, he makes sacrifices for me as well. I feel like I may make a little more just because he's the one with kids, and I know that he also has his Dad responsibilities. But, he does make sacrifices for me as well.
> 
> ...


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ursula said:


> i have no idea how to do the broken up quotes that you did in your reply, so I just put my replies to you in red.


No worries.Those were two different quotes, but you have to copy the quote header & finisher in between each bit if you want to break up a post to respond to specific parts.

Although my marriage did not benefit from MC, the one thing I did learn is that you have to spell things out clearly to men 😂 Like brutally, honestly clear, so they can't say "Oh, you never told me x, y, z..." They don't get hints, even if we think we're being clear. 

Yup, as a fellow kid-free woman, I feel similarly about my relationship with a single dad, maybe @frusdil can give you some idea of how her relationship dynamics with her husband work, they sound like they've negotiated that balance pretty well. 

Hmm, are you getting frustrated because his passivity regarding the ex is making you lose respect for him? That's a love killer, so if left unaddressed, it might bring things to a natural conclusion either way. Maybe he doesn't understand that, and thinks this is a negotiation? Sounds like it's time for radical honesty so he fully understands this is where its **** or get off the pot. 

Usually, you see this with single mothers who put their kids first in everything, the stepdad falls in line behind everyone. Honestly, I don't have any good advice for you, hon. I know people have said you're settling, he's not the best out there, but we've both seen what's out there and you've decided he's a great option, despite his shortcomings. I'm happy to hear he treats you with respect and consideration, you deserve it. 

The fact is, if this situation is something you can't handle, it may apply to many single dads unless they don't have as much visitation or care as much for their children (which might be a turn-off). I noticed a trend in the single, childless men on OLD in my age range- most were looking for casual dating, ONS, or weren't particularly attractive (for whatever reason), which is why I decided to be open to dating a single dad (but no young kids). 

You mentioned it took a good 18 months of dating to meet someone you clicked with, now, I'm not saying that to make you stay in something that does not work for you. Just giving some perspective to people who seem to think its raining eligible men 😂 

So, his daughter is not receptive to therapy? Oh, that's a ticking time bomb waiting to happen, especially with puberty incoming. 

Why do relationships have to be so complicated, eh?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

TXTrini said:


> 🤷‍♀️No worries.Those were two different quotes, but you have to copy the quote header & finisher in between each bit if you want to break up a post to respond to specific parts.
> 
> Although my marriage did not benefit from MC, the one thing I did learn is that you have to spell things out clearly to men 😂 Like brutally, honestly clear, so they can't say "Oh, you never told me x, y, z..." They don't get hints, even if we think we're being clear.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, I'm well aware of how clear us women have to be with men, and also ran into that in my previous marriage. I thought I was being 100% clear, but he was still hit with a ton of bricks when I told him I wanted to separate. 🤷‍♀️

To answer your question, I think I'm getting frustrated because I haven't seen any lasting changes, and that's what I need to see. And yes, I need him to be more firm with both his ex and his youngest, as I really don't want to lose respect for him, but know that it will happen if he doesn't take the necessary steps to put his foot down. I don't let my XH run things, so I expect the same thing from BF (and his ex). I honestly think that he tries so hard to please his child because his XW is such a train wreck, his oldest is following that same path, and he doesn't want his youngest to follow as well. I really do give him huge kudos for being such an active parent, but I also need him to realize that it's not just him and her anymore (yes, I've told him this).

Yes, some folks here have said that I'm settling, and who knows, maybe I am. At this time, I don't feel like I am. I value myself, possibly for the first time ever, and I know that I deserve someone fantastic. Yes, i know full well what is out there (And yes, it took 18 months to find BF, with a 4-month casual relationship in that time too). Most of what's out there, I don't want: f-buddy, ONS or something casual. BF and I are on the same page, and want the same things for the future. Can improvements be made? Sure! Can't they always though? I know that I can sometimes come off as *****y, especially when bottling things up for awhile, which I tend to do given the past with XH, when I got in trouble often for talking about lots of things. BF doesn't like when I'm like that, and I don't blame him. That's on me to fix. Neither of us are perfect, and we certainly don't make a perfect couple, but I owe it to me and him to see it through, and open up communication lines a little more.

And no, at this point, his youngest isn't open to therapy, and I'm hopeful that will change in the near future, as she gets a little older and more mature. She may begin to realize that she can't handle this on her own. I would love to talk to her about it, but she doesn't know that I know, and had asked her Dad to not tell me. He eventually did though. I certainly hope that she'll be OK in the future, and will be amenable to talking through this. She certainly doesn't deserve to have had to go through abuse by a family member.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ursula said:


> Oh yes, I'm well aware of how clear us women have to be with men, and also ran into that in my previous marriage. I thought I was being 100% clear, but he was still hit with a ton of bricks when I told him I wanted to separate. 🤷‍♀️
> 
> To answer your question, I think I'm getting frustrated because I haven't seen any lasting changes, and that's what I need to see. And yes, I need him to be more firm with both his ex and his youngest, as I really don't want to lose respect for him, but know that it will happen if he doesn't take the necessary steps to put his foot down. I don't let my XH run things, so I expect the same thing from BF (and his ex). I honestly think that he tries so hard to please his child because his XW is such a train wreck, his oldest is following that same path, and he doesn't want his youngest to follow as well. I really do give him huge kudos for being such an active parent, but I also need him to realize that it's not just him and her anymore (yes, I've told him this).
> 
> ...


I hope you can work things out, he sounds like a very caring man. But the passivity sounds like a dealbreaker. 

Good luck!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If things continue as they are, you’ll very likely lose all respect for him at some point. I know I did with my exH. He even brought that up during an argument and I told him that under the circumstances I couldn’t. He knew all of that and yet he still didn’t change. Some people just won’t make the effort. Time will tell if your bf’s one of them.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Ursula said:


> Neither of us are perfect, and we certainly don't make a perfect couple, but I owe it to me and him to see it through, and open up communication lines a little more.
> 
> And no, at this point, his youngest isn't open to therapy, and I'm hopeful that will change in the near future, as she gets a little older and more mature.


That's the thing, no one is perfect, and I honestly think that's where so many people go wrong. They base their expectation for a relationship on everyone else's false reality "Jane's husband buys her flowers every week" or "Sue's husband brings her coffee in bed every morning" or "Jill's husband treats her like a queen" and then they look at their own partner, in all his perfect imperfections and decide to throw in the towel. Jane, Sue and Jill only share the good stuff, not all the bad or ordinary stuff. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Why is the child getting a choice in going to therapy or not? She's 10 and a victim of child abuse! It's not her call to make. Both her parents should be handling that.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

frusdil said:


> That's the thing, no one is perfect, and I honestly think that's where so many people go wrong. They base their expectation for a relationship on everyone else's false reality "Jane's husband buys her flowers every week" or "Sue's husband brings her coffee in bed every morning" or "Jill's husband treats her like a queen" and then they look at their own partner, in all his perfect imperfections and decide to throw in the towel. Jane, Sue and Jill only share the good stuff, not all the bad or ordinary stuff. I wouldn't write him off just yet.
> 
> Why is the child getting a choice in going to therapy or not? She's 10 and a victim of child abuse! It's not her call to make. Both her parents should be handling that.


Some people are just born miserable and are never satisfied with anyone or anything. This is exactly why social media is so ****ty for people, we're always comparing ourselves and not measuring up to what we think is the standard!

It's one thing to have standards and not settle, but another to have unrealistic expectations.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

frusdil said:


> That's the thing, no one is perfect, and I honestly think that's where so many people go wrong. They base their expectation for a relationship on everyone else's false reality "Jane's husband buys her flowers every week" or "Sue's husband brings her coffee in bed every morning" or "Jill's husband treats her like a queen" and then they look at their own partner, in all his perfect imperfections and decide to throw in the towel. Jane, Sue and Jill only share the good stuff, not all the bad or ordinary stuff. I wouldn't write him off just yet.
> 
> *Why is the child getting a choice in going to therapy or not? She's 10 and a victim of child abuse! It's not her call to make. Both her parents should be handling that.*


It's not as thought she's calling the shots on going to therapy. She was in therapy, but then Covid happened, and that was the end of that, at least for the time being. I'm not sure if her therapist is having in-office appointments at this time or not TBH, I'm not in contact with her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Ursula said:


> It's not as thought she's calling the shots on going to therapy. She was in therapy, but then Covid happened, and that was the end of that, at least for the time being. I'm not sure if her therapist is having in-office appointments at this time or not TBH, I'm not in contact with her.


Your last post made it sound that way "At this point no, she's not open to therapy" it shouldn't be her choice at only 10yo.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ursula said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I need some of your awesome thoughts on some relationship stuff that's been bugging me. History: I've been dating BF for just over 2.5 years; he has 2 daughters: one is 10 and is technically staying 1 week with him, 1 week with her Mom. The other (adopted) daughter is 16, has dropped out of school 3x, lives with her Mom and is going down the same path as her Mom unfortunately (smoking pot, drinking, etc). She's a nice kid and I really like her, but she really needs to have a come-to-Jesus moment to get back on track.
> 
> ...


At 10, if she's still sleeping in a bed with her dad once a week, how and when is that going to change?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Child Services need to be appraised of your BF's ex wife's activities, doing the drugs, and who knows what else?

He needs to shield her from that lifestyle.
You can see what happened to the older girl, the mother sucked her into her private hell.

................................................................

There is nothing wrong with having a boyfriend.
That said, not all mature BF's are marriage material.

Keep him as a friend and a BF and keep looking for someone better.
Keep your options open.

Why would you not?



_Lilith-_


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Your last post made it sound that way "At this point no, she's not open to therapy" it shouldn't be her choice at only 10yo.


Oh, I just meant in way that she doesn't actually talk to the therapist when she's in her appointment. She apparently does something called "play therapy", not sure exactly what all that entails. Her Dad is the one who put her into therapy, and is planning on doing it again when Covid cases drop, but we're not sure when that will be.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> At 10, if she's still sleeping in a bed with her dad once a week, how and when is that going to change?


Soon, I would hope! It not, it will actually be a pretty inappropriate thing to do. According to him, she pushes for more sleep time with him during the week, but he says no. I suggested weening her off of doing this for when I move in, as I don't really want to deal with a child who's mad that I now have her side of the bed. So, he has been down to once a week for a bit now, and I look forward to when she can sleep in her own bed 100% of the time. It's weird though, and I'm guessing it's not just me who thinks so.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This child may be ten years old, but she is very insecure and fearful.

She loves her daddy and wants him close, even in sleep.
She remains afraid of the dark and in the dark she see's in the people around her mother.
She is grasping, gasping for love and attention.

Umm.

No, sleeping with her father, or the mother is not appropriate, but this behavior of hers is instructive, if not heart breaking.

Show her love all the time, everywhere proper.



_Are Dee-_


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Ursula said:


> Soon, I would hope! It not, it will actually be a pretty inappropriate thing to do. According to him, she pushes for more sleep time with him during the week, but he says no. I suggested weening her off of doing this for when I move in, as I don't really want to deal with a child who's mad that I now have her side of the bed. So, he has been down to once a week for a bit now, and I look forward to when she can sleep in her own bed 100% of the time. It's weird though, and I'm guessing it's not just me who thinks so.


There's nothing wrong or inappropriate about a 10yo girl sleeping in her dad's bed, the only reason it's an issue here - as it was in my situation too - is because you don't want her associating your moving in with her having to stay in her own bed. You're absolutely right about that, it needs to stop and her staying in her own bed be the norm for a bit BEFORE you move in.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

frusdil said:


> There's nothing wrong or inappropriate about a 10yo girl sleeping in her dad's bed, the only reason it's an issue here - as it was in my situation too - is because you don't want her associating your moving in with her having to stay in her own bed. You're absolutely right about that, it needs to stop and her staying in her own bed be the norm for a bit BEFORE you move in.


Well if you think 10 is okay for a daughter to sleep in the same bed with her father, where is the cut off age? 11, 12, 13, 14?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Well if you think 10 is okay for a daughter to sleep in the same bed with her father, where is the cut off age? 11, 12, 13, 14?


And this is exactly where my head is at. Maybe at 10 it's alright, but she's joined to his hip at this point, and my concern was exactly this: where's the cut off age? It may not be inappropriate now, but once she starts developing breasts and menstruating, it sure will be (if it's still happening; hopefully not). I know that she also didn't like it when her Mom's BF slept over when she was over there because that meant that she had to sleep in her own bed. I don't know if this is still happening there, or if this is how she still feels.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Well if you think 10 is okay for a daughter to sleep in the same bed with her father, where is the cut off age? 11, 12, 13, 14?


Why does there have to be a cut off age? He's her dad. 

Obviously a teenage girl and her dad sharing a bed naked is sick and twisted, but this scenario is not that.

Hell, when my dad was dying I would snuggle up with him on the bed and I was late 30's!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

frusdil said:


> Why does there have to be a cut off age? He's her dad.
> 
> Obviously a teenage girl and her dad sharing a bed naked is sick and twisted, but this scenario is not that.
> 
> Hell, when my dad was dying I would snuggle up with him on the bed and I was late 30's!


Why should there be a cut off age? Precisely because he is her dad.

No one said anything about "naked" but even not naked, a teenage girl regularly sharing a bed sleeping all night with her dad is not appropriate or healthy. 

And it's in a different universe than snuggling up to a dying parent. Unsure why you mentioned it as if that's the equivalent of an older child routinely sleeping with a parent 🤔


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Why should there be a cut off age? Precisely because he is her dad.
> 
> No one said anything about "naked" but even not naked, a teenage girl regularly sharing a bed sleeping all night with her dad is not appropriate or healthy.
> 
> And it's in a different universe than snuggling up to a dying parent. Unsure why you mentioned it as if that's the equivalent of an older child routinely sleeping with a parent 🤔


The girl in question is 10. There's nothing wrong with it. She'll grow out of it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

frusdil said:


> The girl in question is 10. There's nothing wrong with it. She'll grow out of it.


We disagree on this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Things that bother you now—- multiply that feeling by 10,000,000 and you’ll get an idea how living it will be. There’s too many problems. He says no to you with no problem because he can make it stick with you, because you know what NO means.
Something you need to wrap your head around: some people (his kids) do NOT know what NO means, and that will NEVER change. It will drive you freaking bonkers watching him cave and use family funds (if you were a team as it should be (they’d be half yours) to finance all his daughters selfish desires. And since he will have taken a huge hit on that, what he has left, he won’t want to spenf on making his life with you better.

My suggestion is break up with him. It doesn’t speak highly of him that he has an ex wife that’s that despicable of a person, nor his kids being that way also. HE is the cause of a lot of their problems. He never taught them any kind of self discipline because he didn’t teach them any discipline himself, is my perception.

Realize that all his problems will now be YOUR problems if you move in. And if you have any say in how the child behaves in your presence, it will not be supported by him. You’ll be the outsider. Don’t move in. Asking for trouble.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Things that bother you now—- multiply that feeling by 10,000,000 and you’ll get an idea how living it will be. There’s too many problems. He says no to you with no problem because he can make it stick with you, because you know what NO means.
> Something you need to wrap your head around: some people (his kids) do NOT know what NO means, and that will NEVER change. It will drive you freaking bonkers watching him cave and use family funds (if you were a team as it should be (they’d be half yours) to finance all his daughters selfish desires. And since he will have taken a huge hit on that, what he has left, he won’t want to spenf on making his life with you better.
> 
> My suggestion is break up with him. It doesn’t speak highly of him that he has an ex wife that’s that despicable of a person, nor his kids being that way also. HE is the cause of a lot of their problems. He never taught them any kind of self discipline because he didn’t teach them any discipline himself, is my perception.
> ...


This exactly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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