# Women and Rough sex



## FalconKing

Ladies I would like some feedback please. A female poster mentioned how she wanted her husband to be more assertive in the bedroom. Also I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. This has got me thinking. Most people want a fair and equal relationship. A relationship where people have equal say so and their feelings are respected. So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? If someone is dominate then they are putting their needs first and just assuming you are ok with that. Most men I know that like to dominate women sexually are usually a bit chauvinistic. And I think it would be hard to be sympathetic and understanding to someone's needs but then just do whatever you want with them during moments of intimacy. 

It really perplexes me. My last 3 girlfriends have all preferred rough sex to sensual. I can do that but why is everything fair but during sex some women prefer the dude just take over. No disrespect to anyone's sexuality. I'm just trying to logically understand this. I'm maybe looking at it too black and white?


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## Fozzy

I may be completely off base, but I think for some women who may have some hangups about sex in general, it gives them a way to enjoy sex without the feelings of guilt or "weirdness" they may associate with being assertive themselves. Because their partner is basically calling the shots, they can say to themselves...well i'm being (and i know this isn't the correct word) forced to do this, so I might as well enjoy it.

ETA: This is phrased awkwardly but it's the best I can do on a Friday.


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## FalconKing

Don't worry. I know what you mean. I've thought about this as well. Like a since of freedom sort of? Because that person would feel alleviated from responsibility?


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## Fozzy

Right


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## firebelly1

Being dominated and being abused are not the same thing. One aspect I like about being dominated is I don't have to make any decisions. But it works out because the decisions my partner makes are ones where he knows what I like and is still looking after my needs, because we've talked about it ahead of time, and he does those things without me having to ask for or initiate them in bed. That's kind of what being dominated means to me. 

Rough sex is a different thing. You are sort of dominating her physically, but if she likes that, what's wrong with that? If you are both enjoying the experience you are having, then it IS equal.


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## Coffee Amore

FalconKing said:


> Ladies I would like some feedback please. A female poster mentioned how she wanted her husband to be more assertive in the bedroom. Also I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. This has got me thinking. Most people want a fair and equal relationship. A relationship where people have equal say so and their feelings are respected. So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? If someone is dominate then they are putting their needs first and just assuming you are ok with that. Most men I know that like to dominate women sexually are usually a bit chauvinistic. And I think it would be hard to be sympathetic and understanding to someone's needs but then just do whatever you want with them during moments of intimacy.
> 
> It really perplexes me. My last 3 girlfriends have all preferred rough sex to sensual. I can do that but why is everything fair but during sex some women prefer the dude just take over. No disrespect to anyone's sexuality. I'm just trying to logically understand this. I'm maybe looking at it too black and white?


It's a consensual relationship. It's not slavery or abuse. You don't get to do whatever you want with them. There would be lines in the sand you don't cross depending on the person. That's why some people use safe words or non-verbal gestures to indicate when something is going too far for comfort. And really it's the one who is the sub who controls it if you think about it. It can only go so far as that submissive person is willing. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting a gentleman outside the bedroom and a dominant man in the bed. Hair pulling isn't just for preschoolers.


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## FalconKing

Thanks for the feedback ladies. Questions. So there is freedom in being dominated. Is it only something you identify with as a female? Like, if a man wanted that would that seem strange? Obviously, this works best if it's spontaneous and impulsive. At what point do you just submit to his will? Is it just responsive desire? What if he goes for it and you are just not in the mood? Does it make things awkward for a while?


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## Coffee Amore

FalconKing said:


> Thanks for the feedback ladies. Questions. So there is freedom in being dominated. Is it only something you identify with as a female? Like, if a man wanted that would that seem strange?


There's nothing wrong with a man wanting to be the submissive. They just have to find a woman who is more of a dominant in bed and there are plenty of women who want to take charge in the bedroom. Some people can be both dominants and subs depending on the mood. Those are called switches.


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## heartsbeating

Being assertive, dominant, and rough doesn't fall into the same category. From my perspective, it's the element of surprise and keeping me on my toes (not literally, haha) that is exciting. It doesn't mean my needs are going unmet. Heck, could even be about my pleasure as a drawn-out tease if that's what he wanted. Thing is, paying close attention to your lover is exactly what makes these encounters sexy. Variety is fun. Rough sex will mean different things to different people. Know what ignites one another and what the limits are, experiment and keep a sense of humor nearby.


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## Miss Taken

I am someone who likes a more dominant man in bed. While I do my fair share of initiating, once the sex has begun, he takes the lead as to what we do, MOST of the time. I emphasize "most" because 1) what we do is completely consensual. Even if he is dominating me or deciding what position or sex act, ultimately it's up to me to go along with it or not. So if I don't like a certain act, or just aren't in the mood for that thing in particular then we don't do it. 2) There are a lot of times I instigate certain sex acts on my own or initiate sex.

I prefer a man who can dominate me in bed. I suppose it has something to do with me being a strong woman outside of the bedroom. Still, while strong, I have a vulnerable side. So I want a man who is stronger than I am to "take" me. Being taken by my man reminds me of his strength... something that makes me feel safe and protected. Something a passive man could never make me feel. It is a turn on.

It is also like dancing. The man (typically) leads. The woman decides whether or not she will dance, nevermind follow.


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## heartsbeating

Miss Taken said:


> Being taken by my man reminds me of his strength... something that makes me feel safe and protected. Something a passive man could never make me feel. It is a turn on.


I feel similarly with this as well. I've no problem initiating but it is indeed a turn on when he takes the lead. The 'letting go' perhaps occurs because I feel he treats me as an equal in our relationship. We treat one another with respect. He's attracted to strength, conviction, confidence etc and is confident within himself. If I felt he was chauvinistic or the dynamic between us was a power struggle, well granted, I wouldn't be with someone like that... and so with sex when he's more dominant, it's a turn on because of how we relate to one another through-out the rest of our marriage. That, and the excitement desire stuff.


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## FalconKing

What about someone who prefers this intimacy even with casual partners or people they don't know that well? 

Here's a scenario: A guy picked up someone at a bar. Exchange numbers. You get to a private setting. Something seems off. Then both parties leave. The next day there are text exchanged back and forth, and the girl says she just wanted the guy to take over. Does this sound erotic or dangerous with an initial stranger? I would probably avoid seeing a person like that again.


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## Lyris

I think it's more about feeling that he is so turned on he can't control himself. He's not thinking logically, or able to be considerate. He wants you, he's taking you.

Rawr.


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## BostonBruins32

I know that this is a woman's thread, but I can definately back up the masses here. I've never been with a woman sexually who didnt want to be dominated (on some level) in the bedroom. I dont even think women like guys asking for sex or asking for a kiss. Assertiveness all day everyday.


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## COguy

Since my split with the ex I've started to become more aggressive and dominant in the bedroom.

I like it, the only hangup I have in the back of my mind is that the sex can't be as pleasurable for the woman when I act like this.

If I make it all about me I would just jack hammer her from missionary and the whole thing would be over in about 2 minutes.

For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


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## EnjoliWoman

Hey, if it's hot, 2 minutes of "jackhammering" can be fabulous.

I dated Mr. Sensual and it was great and sweet and certainly lots of time to build and orgasm. But it would have been nice if just once he had switched gears, grabbed my wrists and pinned them over my head and gone for it. Obviously it's consensual if I don't say stop and I'm there in bed with him to start with.

I probably have a decent amount of "baggage" here. I was in an abusive relationship, but if I get to the point of sex, there is a level of trust that exists. 

Also, as a 5'7" sturdy girl (not petite and waif-ish) it does make me feel small, feminine, protected and all of those wonderful things that being tossed about in bed feels like.

It doesn't feel abusive or as if he doesn't care about me, my orgasm, etc. It feels more 'take charge' as in "I'm all man, I want you, I will have you and you will LOVE it." Because most men, including a man who takes charge in the bedroom still wants you to orgasm. It doesn't come across as being all about the guy AT ALL.


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## WyshIknew

We tend to mix it up.

Sometimes I'll give her a good seeing to, sometimes we do slow sensual drawn out, sometimes she pushes me on the bed and to quote another poster 'rides me like Seabiscuit'

It's all good.


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## melw74

FalconKing said:


> Ladies I would like some feedback please. A female poster mentioned how she wanted her husband to be more assertive in the bedroom. Also I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. This has got me thinking. Most people want a fair and equal relationship. A relationship where people have equal say so and their feelings are respected. So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? If someone is dominate then they are putting their needs first and just assuming you are ok with that. Most men I know that like to dominate women sexually are usually a bit chauvinistic. And I think it would be hard to be sympathetic and understanding to someone's needs but then just do whatever you want with them during moments of intimacy.
> 
> It really perplexes me. My last 3 girlfriends have all preferred rough sex to sensual. I can do that but why is everything fair but during sex some women prefer the dude just take over. No disrespect to anyone's sexuality. I'm just trying to logically understand this. I'm maybe looking at it too black and white?


I am going to say, i love being dominated... In and out of the bedroom, I love the fact my man is how should i put it... n control in our relationship ( oh for a different phrasing) I know some people hate that word control, but not me... I could find another word, but it would still be the same.

I am a surrendered wife, so preaching to the choir baby:lol:.... But this is our choice in living so i say each to their own, you either love it or hate it, but it works for us.

Its not equal, but i think its fair.... as like i say, Its what we both want.... I may not always have an equal say, but i am very much respected by my husband, My husband is never disrespectful.... He treats me very well.... hes nowhere near chauvinistic.....

Nothing wrong with rough now and again


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## SpinDaddy

FalconKing said:


> Thanks for the feedback ladies. Questions. So there is freedom in being dominated. Is it only something you identify with as a female? Like, if a man wanted that would that seem strange?





Coffee Amore said:


> There's nothing wrong with a man wanting to be the submissive. They just have to find a woman who is more of a dominant in bed and there are plenty of women who want to take charge in the bedroom. Some people can be both dominants and subs depending on the mood. Those are called switches.


Thanks Coffee. I had the good fortune to marry one of “those” women. We are about as “plain vanilla”/un-kinky as they come and I’m no woosie either. 

In my mind, it isn’t about “dominant/submissive” but in giving you partner pleasure. I feel more “in charge” of our activities because her “dominance” lets me wholly focus on giving her pleasure. Ultimately that is most empowering because, in reality, I am the one who drives the sexual encounter.

IDK – do women in "traditional" roles feel that way?


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## lovelygirl

I like it rough and some dirty talk along the way...


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## Miss Taken

COguy said:


> For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


My orgasms are very important. His dominance is also important. I don't think I'd be willing to give up either. 

Even being dominant, he's still very generous and always makes sure that I orgasm, often multiple times before he does. Still, he takes the lead by initiating certain acts that he knows will make me orgasm. Then when it's "his turn" he pounds the sh1t out of me and I enjoy it lol.

Even though I do enjoy a good pound by him, it doesn't mean that dominance in bed is synonymous with "rough". Although it can be. It has much more to do with his assertiveness and taking the lead... Flipping me over and putting me in certain positions. He doesn't tip-toe around me in the bedroom. He just expects that this will happen and he is almost always right. Also, of course certain positions are naturally more submissive ones to be in for the woman, like doggy style and missionary as he's on top.


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## omgitselaine

Miss Taken said:


> Still, he takes the lead by initiating certain acts that he knows will make me orgasm. Then when it's "his turn" he pounds the sh1t out of me and I enjoy it lol.


Ohhhhhhh myyyyyyy gaaaawd !!!!!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Faithful Wife

A woman can enjoy rough sex without also "being dominated". For me it is all about the physical fun time, being thrown around, lifted up and dropped on the bed, climbing on his back and riding him around the room...the fun stuff is in the physicality of it, for me. Yes, he looks like a fierce stud when he is doing it, but he's not my "dom", it isn't about any of that stuff for us. I look fierce when he's throwing me in the air, too. 

I just wrote this blog post yesterday about getting your brains F'd out, but I couldn't use that for the post title:

I Married a Sex God: Shake Up Your Brain


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## Faithful Wife

PS...welcome back, Falconking.


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## Anon Pink

There is a difference between being dominant and being a d,ck.


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## Anon Pink

FalconKing said:


> What about someone who prefers this intimacy even with casual partners or people they don't know that well?
> 
> Here's a scenario: A guy picked up someone at a bar. Exchange numbers. You get to a private setting. Something seems off. Then both parties leave. The next day there are text exchanged back and forth, and the girl says she just wanted the guy to take over. Does this sound erotic or dangerous with an initial stranger? *I would probably avoid seeing a person like that again*.


I would too. Far far too early in the relationship, IMO. Unless the guy was being too passive thus giving the impression he wasn't entirely interested... Need more details.


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## 2ntnuf

FalconKing said:


> What about someone who prefers this intimacy even with casual partners or people they don't know that well?
> 
> Here's a scenario: A guy picked up someone at a bar. Exchange numbers. You get to a private setting. Something seems off. Then both parties leave. The next day there are text exchanged back and forth, and the girl says she just wanted the guy to take over. Does this sound erotic or dangerous with an initial stranger? I would probably avoid seeing a person like that again.


Reads like you think what she wants is one thing and she understands it as another. In fact, most of the posts I've read in this thread make me think that is true. 

It really isn't true rough sex. It's just wanting her and doing your thing with her pleasure in mind. I wonder how much is assumption and misunderstanding, in most relationships? I wonder how many relationships have broken up over misunderstandings and assumptions? What a shame...


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## GettingIt_2

I crave domination from my husband in and out of the bedroom. It's definitely a crucial aspect to my substantial kink. 

Why it turns me on is complicated, but I don't think I'd be able to enjoy the full range of this kink with someone I did not trust implicitly. For that reason, I would not be seeking out this sort of sexual encounter with a new partner. 

However, there are ways in which I'd find dominance from a new partner attractive. For example, I'd like the feeling from him that he was just dying to ravish me but was holding back our of respect for not knowing me well. He's got pent up passion, but he's a gentleman. I wouldn't want a partner who was only trying to please me, however; I'd want it to be plain that he was having a good time, too. Also, a man who knows his way around a woman's anatomy and demonstrates that her pleasure gives him pleasure: hot. 

It does come down to confidence, I think. It's okay to show what you like and how you like it without being tentative and questioning, but it's also crucial to demonstrate awareness and concern for her pleasure and comfort, too. I know: a true balancing act. 

All bets are off in my marriage, though. We use a safe word, and I like it best when he pushes the boundaries with dominance, aggression and roughness--both physically and mentally. The rush of adrenaline added to the sexual pleasure is out of this world, and afterwards when those endorphins kick in . . . yeah, I'm a junkie.


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## 2ntnuf

Well, if there isn't a whooooooole bunch of extreme openness and honesty from everyone involved before the acts, you might as well play russian roulette, cause that's what you're doing with your marital respect and trust.


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## CuddleBug

FalconKing said:


> Ladies I would like some feedback please. A female poster mentioned how she wanted her husband to be more assertive in the bedroom. Also I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. This has got me thinking. Most people want a fair and equal relationship. A relationship where people have equal say so and their feelings are respected. So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? If someone is dominate then they are putting their needs first and just assuming you are ok with that. Most men I know that like to dominate women sexually are usually a bit chauvinistic. And I think it would be hard to be sympathetic and understanding to someone's needs but then just do whatever you want with them during moments of intimacy.
> 
> It really perplexes me. My last 3 girlfriends have all preferred rough sex to sensual. I can do that but why is everything fair but during sex some women prefer the dude just take over. No disrespect to anyone's sexuality. I'm just trying to logically understand this. I'm maybe looking at it too black and white?



I've noticed my wifee always likes it when I'm on top and taking charge of her in the bedroom.


Missionary, I'm on top.

Doggie Style, she likes it when I hammer her hard and she hammers me back hard, at the same time.

She lays down, from doggie style, I'm on top with her bum arched upward and I grab her hands.


She never is on top or does 69, etc. She she likes it when I am being the dominant one in the bedroom and rough. Never really thought of it before, but now that I think about it, very true. She is more the slow BJ and using her fingers type but she likes it when I do the opposite, more rough and dominant.


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## GettingIt_2

2ntnuf said:


> Well, if there isn't a whooooooole bunch of extreme openness and honesty from everyone involved before the acts, you might as well play russian roulette, cause that's what you're doing with your marital respect and trust.


Agree whole heartedly. The amount of communication required for BOTH partners to feel safe cannot be stressed enough.


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## always_alone

This is just to say that there are some women --at least one-- who do not appreciate roughness or dominance.

And this does *not* mean that he has to apologize, or ask, or be tentative, or even be slow and sensual. To me the opposition of "rough" and "timid" or "slow" is a false dichotomy.

So, you know, do what makes you happy, but don't assume you will thereby be making someone else happy--unless, of course, you've already checked in with your partner.


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## FalconKing

This is eye opening. And I've gotten a wealth of feedback. Thanks guys. I'm off to the gym but I just wanted to thank everyone for there honest responses before I get a chance to properly reply.


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## happy as a clam

I don't like the terms "rough" or "dominant". 

I prefer "aggressive", NOT in a bullying or threatening way. Just in a way that says "I am a MAN and I WILL take what I want." Know what I mean? 

I love slow, sensual sex too, but 9 times out of 10, I MUCH prefer my man *flipping me around like a rag doll*  and TAKING what he wants... all CONSENSUALLY of course. Nothing demeaning or derogatory about it. I totally agree with EnjoliWoman... nothing like a couple of minutes of "jackhammering" to know how much he desires me.

I just LOVE a man in charge. *grooooowwwwllll*


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## treyvion

FalconKing said:


> Ladies I would like some feedback please. A female poster mentioned how she wanted her husband to be more assertive in the bedroom. Also I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. This has got me thinking. Most people want a fair and equal relationship. A relationship where people have equal say so and their feelings are respected. So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? If someone is dominate then they are putting their needs first and just assuming you are ok with that. Most men I know that like to dominate women sexually are usually a bit chauvinistic. And I think it would be hard to be sympathetic and understanding to someone's needs but then just do whatever you want with them during moments of intimacy.
> 
> It really perplexes me. My last 3 girlfriends have all preferred rough sex to sensual. I can do that but why is everything fair but during sex some women prefer the dude just take over. No disrespect to anyone's sexuality. I'm just trying to logically understand this. I'm maybe looking at it too black and white?


Some women prefer the men to be dominant during sex and others say they hate it.

Thing about it is male wasn't physically dominant to female she would have never taken his seed from pre-Christ prehistoric times to today.

I don't think a male should ignore a females sexual need, but due to the nature of the act, the male penetrates and the woman receives.


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## firebelly1

COguy said:


> Since my split with the ex I've started to become more aggressive and dominant in the bedroom.
> 
> I like it, the only hangup I have in the back of my mind is that the sex can't be as pleasurable for the woman when I act like this.
> 
> If I make it all about me I would just jack hammer her from missionary and the whole thing would be over in about 2 minutes.
> 
> For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


I'm glad you asked this question because you jack-hammering for 2 minutes is not the kind of dominance I like (or imagine any of us like.) Dominance does not equate to ignoring the woman's needs, far from it. It means that you get to decide how she gets pleasured but it's based on knowing what she likes and still sticking to that list of things.


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## EnjoliWoman

Anon Pink said:


> There is a difference between being dominant and being a d,ck.


Exactly. And the difference is whether or not you are in tune to your partner. A d!ck does what he wants with no regard to your enjoyment. Someone who isn't may try a little roughness, dominance, aggressiveness and be responsive to your reaction and if you don't like it or have a 'grin and bear it' look on your face he'll stop.


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## HappyGilmore

Hello Falconking. You are asking some good questions about this, and I think you have had some good answers. The way I see it is that a woman who likes to be dominated in bed like that loves the feeling of him desiring her soooo much, that he HAS to have her. I am a woman, and can identify with that, to a certain degree. 

I prefer to be the dominant one in the bedroom, most of the time, but I do have a side to me that is a little submissive. I've been exploring this side a little bit with my husband lately, in order to see if it is a truly submissive side, or if I am just into the sensations (us kinksters would call that "bottoming"). Hard to say right now, as I still LOVE to be in control--even when I'm tied up I'm giving him instructions. :rofl: Of course, I've also been training his more dominant side, so perhaps when he is ready he can take over a little more.

But I digress...Sometimes, I do like it when he just _takes_ me. It's a stroke to my ego when he wants me so much that he can't help himself. I'm still sexy to him, I'm still his lover, I still light his fires, he still burns for me. But he attends to my needs during this, making sure I have at LEAST one orgasm (more often it's many).

As for rough sex, that's a different topic. Doggie style pounding is fun, and is pretty effective for hitting my sweet-spot, if you get my drift. Vigorous sex has its perks. Great for stress relief. It's not for every time that we have sex, but sometimes you just have to bang away at each other. And it isn't just him being rough, by the way. I bite back, and leave marks, during those encounters.

I recommend having a good discussion with her. Find out what her fantasies are, build trust with her by not laughing at them or dismissing them, and realize that this is definitely about taking care of her sexual needs.


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## ocotillo

I have such a hard time with this subject. It's one thing to take the lead. In my (Admittedly limited) experience, ladies generally like that. But I can't imagine a man yanking a woman's hair without ugly thoughts about what the butplate of a K98 was designed for popping into my head.

That's wrong and I know it, but there it is.


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## GettingIt_2

COguy said:


> .
> 
> For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


I wouldn't want it one way or the other all of the time . . . but I absolutely love it when he is super aggressive and fvcks me so that he comes as soon as possible. He moves different when he does that, when he's not holding out for my pleasure and it turns me on to no end . . . even if I don't come I'm often completely satisfied. And if I don't come and want to, he'll see to me afterwards. 

I don't think it's his favorite way to have sex--but anytime he wants it like that, I'm game. I love the fantasy of complete domination, of not mattering, of existing only for his pleasure. 

HOWEVER . . . .I think it bears mentioning that my h is an incredibly giving and talented lover and if I felt that I really was being slighted or that he believed my pleasure didn't matter, I probably would not be able to crave his dominance like I do. It's my belief in his love and respect and desire for me that allows me to completely explore my kink in ways that I'm sure would appall many women (and men, for that matter.)


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## doobie

I think there's a big difference between a man being dominant or assertive in bed and rough sex. While I find it quite sexy if the man is assertive, rough sex does nothing for me. My husband can't really do sex any other way and it's just a matter of me putting up with the pain and discomfort and trying to enjoy it too. The harder and rougher he does something, the more it hurts and the less of a turn on. There are times when what he's been doing with his hands or mouth just becomes unbearably painful and I have to pull away. I've asked him to be more gentle and he thinks he's taken this on board but it still hurts most of the time. Because he's extremely LD (or ND is more like it), this means that on the few occasions that we do have sex, it's just rough and painful. 

If a man starts slowly, and I get really turned on, then with past lovers, I have enjoyed it a bit rougher as it goes along. However, my husband hurts me as soon as he touches me. I've tried explaining that my "bits" are pretty delicate, but this falls on deaf ears. As for mouth action, somebody once told him that in order to give good oral to a woman he should practise on an orange! Apparently, you cut a small hole in an orange and then have to suck out all the insides. Taking this too literally means that oral sex with him is like being assaulted with a vacuum cleaner. Although I'm not happy with the lack of sex, at least I'm not wandering round with my vag bruised and bleeding as I used to when the sex was a little more frequent at the beginning of our relationship.


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## Therealbrighteyes

ocotillo said:


> I have such a hard time with this subject. It's one thing to take the lead. In my (Admittedly limited) experience, ladies generally like that. But I can't imagine a man yanking a woman's hair without ugly thoughts about what the butplate of a K98 was designed for popping into my head.
> 
> That's wrong and I know it, but there it is.


It depends on the partner. My previous one would grab my hair out of malice. My husband does it because I enjoy it. There's the difference. What I am willing to do in bed has everything to do with the person I am with and thus my comfort level.


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## EleGirl

FalconKing,


Hey, long time no see!!! I've been wondering how it's going with you.


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## WyshIknew

I think a lot of it is in the perception.

I'm sure that my rough sex is anothers normal and yet anothers overly rough.

It's whatever works for the two of you.


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## happy as a clam

HappyGilmore said:


> And it isn't just him being rough, by the way. * I bite back, and leave marks, during those encounters.*


Yeppers! Nothing wrong with a good bite or two (or three!) thrown into the mix, from either side


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## melw74

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It depends on the partner. My previous one would grab my hair out of malice. My husband does it because I enjoy it. There's the difference. What I am willing to do in bed has everything to do with the person I am with and thus my comfort level.


I enjoy hair pulling.... and i agree totally with what you've said.


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## lifeistooshort

I much prefer dominance over sensual sex. Who is dominant changes though, I like it when my husband is dominant but he enjoys a good spanking himself. I am happy to provide it, I'm a type A personality so it comes easy. That's probably one big reason I like dominance, I don't respect men I can steamroll.


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## FalconKing

Lyris said:


> I think it's more about feeling that he is so turned on he can't control himself. He's not thinking logically, or able to be considerate. He wants you, he's taking you.
> 
> Rawr.



But you have to be in the mood right? Otherwise it's just you hitting him with the frying pan... What if it's like 2am he decided he wants you this way? Isn't it about timing?


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## ne9907

I recently had guy I am sleeping with slap around a bit. I did not like it. I felt demeaned. 
I do enjoy hair pulling, scratching, biting.... yeah, those are good!


----------



## GettingIt_2

lifeistooshort said:


> I much prefer dominance over sensual sex. Who is dominant changes though, I like it when my husband is dominant but he enjoys a good spanking himself. I am happy to provide it, I'm a type A personality so it comes easy. That's probably one big reason I like dominance, *I don't respect men I can steamroll*.


I suspect this is at the heart of it for me, too. 

I'm kinda a b*tch and I don't want a man who stands for it. I'm not submissive, but I can be MADE to submit by a man who can out-dom me. And when that happens, I'm putty in his hands.


----------



## FalconKing

Anon Pink said:


> I would too. Far far too early in the relationship, IMO. Unless the guy was being too passive thus giving the impression he wasn't entirely interested... Need more details.



I guess it would be a scenario of having an engaging conversation and being close in proximity. And maybe someone expecting the guy to just pounce her or move his hands to certain places. I just don't want to have to guess someone's boundaries.


----------



## FalconKing

2ntnuf said:


> Well, if there isn't a whooooooole bunch of extreme openness and honesty from everyone involved before the acts, you might as well play russian roulette, cause that's what you're doing with your marital respect and trust.



That's kind of along the lines of how I feel.


----------



## Lyris

FalconKing said:


> But you have to be in the mood right? Otherwise it's just you hitting him with the frying pan... What if it's like 2am he decided he wants you this way? Isn't it about timing?


Well yes, if I'm asleep or sick or upset about something, that's not the best time. Although I don't mind the odd 2am wake up at all. 

And as others have said, it doesn't have to be an every time thing. I'm also perfectly happy to be the agressor sometimes. But honestly, it really is a turn off to feel like someone's asking your permission for every touch or whatever. 

But there's a lot to be said for "just take me!" As long as it includes attention to everyone's pleasure.


----------



## FalconKing

HappyGilmore said:


> Hello Falconking. You are asking some good questions about this, and I think you have had some good answers. The way I see it is that a woman who likes to be dominated in bed like that loves the feeling of him desiring her soooo much, that he HAS to have her. I am a woman, and can identify with that, to a certain degree.
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer to be the dominant one in the bedroom, most of the time, but I do have a side to me that is a little submissive. I've been exploring this side a little bit with my husband lately, in order to see if it is a truly submissive side, or if I am just into the sensations (us kinksters would call that "bottoming"). Hard to say right now, as I still LOVE to be in control--even when I'm tied up I'm giving him instructions. :rofl: Of course, I've also been training his more dominant side, so perhaps when he is ready he can take over a little more.
> 
> 
> 
> But I digress...Sometimes, I do like it when he just _takes_ me. It's a stroke to my ego when he wants me so much that he can't help himself. I'm still sexy to him, I'm still his lover, I still light his fires, he still burns for me. But he attends to my needs during this, making sure I have at LEAST one orgasm (more often it's many).
> 
> 
> 
> As for rough sex, that's a different topic. Doggie style pounding is fun, and is pretty effective for hitting my sweet-spot, if you get my drift. Vigorous sex has its perks. Great for stress relief. It's not for every time that we have sex, but sometimes you just have to bang away at each other. And it isn't just him being rough, by the way. I bite back, and leave marks, during those encounters.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend having a good discussion with her. Find out what her fantasies are, build trust with her by not laughing at them or dismissing them, and realize that this is definitely about taking care of her sexual needs.



First off, I DID NOT KNOW YOU WERE A WOMAN! You have some of the craziest ass post. You play Halo and like the smell of gasoline, for crying out loud.

My and my FWB(there is no other way to put) dated but broke up. With both enjoy a lot of intimacy so we just have sex until one of us finds somebody else. She was in a near sexless marriage and I am the second person she has been with. I always made her feel comfortable so she came out of her shell. But coming out of her shell means she really likes rough dominate sex. If it was up to me, sex would be me giving her oral, sucking breast, fingers, toes, so necking and missionary with us making a lot of eye contact and making out. She says that's fine but whenever we start it's like she becomes possessed. We probably had sex about 500 times. And whenever I ask her the ones she enjoyed most: there was this time she was playing on her phone in the bed and said she wasn't in the mood. I rolled over to sleep. Then I said f*ck it. I got up, knocked the phone out of her hand and just took her.

Also there was a time when she was going through some things with her family. And knowing what she liked I wanted her to lose herself in intimacy with me. I dragged and flipped her all over the bed, said dominating and arrogant things to her, and even chocked her a little. She really enjoyed that. But afterwards she told me I was really mean. I didn't know what to say... Then she was like, "but I loved it!" Wtf??


----------



## FalconKing

ne9907 said:


> I recently had guy I am sleeping with slap around a bit. I did not like it. I felt demeaned.
> 
> I do enjoy hair pulling, scratching, biting.... yeah, those are good!



Ha! I've heard similar. "Don't slap my ass... But grab it really hard! And leave bruises!"


----------



## Lyris

Sounds like she has a few issues there FK. I'd step back.


----------



## FalconKing

Lyris said:


> Sounds like she has a few issues there FK. I'd step back.



I understand why you say that. But in everyday dealings with her she is really logical, open minded, and would never willing try to her hurt me. Our breaking up had nothing to do with sex. I thought I would be gone by now with another job. And I felt like the relationship had run it's course. But whenever we have sex she likes it intense. She can't orgasm from penetration. I've thought about that and think reason that maybe just likes it to be intense and aggressive is to get some sort of high from it. I'm just curious as to why she likes it. And seems common that women like some sort of aggression or relinquishing control . Thus my fascination and curiosity.

I really think initially it's something a lot of men aren't comfortable with doing. Especially a guy like me... Who thinks way too damn much.


----------



## Lyris

Tbh intensity in all areas is one of the first things I find attractive, and I don't think I'm alone there. Intensity and focus.


----------



## EleGirl

COguy said:


> Since my split with the ex I've started to become more aggressive and dominant in the bedroom.
> 
> I like it, the only hangup I have in the back of my mind is that the sex can't be as pleasurable for the woman when I act like this.
> 
> If I make it all about me I would just jack hammer her from missionary and the whole thing would be over in about 2 minutes.
> 
> For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


To me sex is like desert, there needs to be variety. My favorite desert is a really good homemade chocolate cake. But if I could never have ice cream again life would not be right.

Sometimes neither dominates.. It’s just mutual love. Sometimes is sweet, sometimes it’s a bit rough, sometimes, it’s quick and other times it lasts for hours. I just like it all.


----------



## GettingIt_2

FalconKing said:


> My and my FWB(there is no other way to put) dated but broke up. With both enjoy a lot of intimacy so we just have sex until one of us finds somebody else. She was in a near sexless marriage and I am the second person she has been with. I always made her feel comfortable so she came out of her shell. But coming out of her shell means she really likes rough dominate sex. If it was up to me, sex would be me giving her oral, sucking breast, fingers, toes, so necking and missionary with us making a lot of eye contact and making out. She says that's fine but whenever we start it's like she becomes possessed. We probably had sex about 500 times. And whenever I ask her the ones she enjoyed most: there was this time she was playing on her phone in the bed and said she wasn't in the mood. I rolled over to sleep. Then I said f*ck it. I got up, knocked the phone out of her hand and just took her.
> 
> Also there was a time when she was going through some things with her family. And knowing what she liked I wanted her to lose herself in intimacy with me. I dragged and flipped her all over the bed, said dominating and arrogant things to her, and even chocked her a little. She really enjoyed that. But afterwards she told me I was really mean. I didn't know what to say... Then she was like, "but I loved it!" Wtf??


It sounds like she might be into "consensual non consent." CNC kinksters typically enjoy being "forced" to have sex. The scenario you describe where she said she wasn't in the mood and you took her anyway is a good example. 

She might not be entirely comfortable with owning her kink, if indeed she has a CNC fantasy. Women are taught that when they say no, it means no, and anything that goes against that is rape. So they are left with basically what amounts to a rape fantasy, which is something a lot of women will resist admitting even to themselves, let alone disclosing to a partner. 

And for men, agreeing to indulge a CNC fantasy with a woman in a casual relationship can really feel like playing with fire--and rightfully so. Men are also aware of the "no means no" message, and even when they have a suspicion that the woman might be enjoying the rough stuff, they hold back because the consequences of misjudging her signals could be dire. 

People who choose to indulge their CNC kink with awareness and intention know how to talk about it with their partners and know how to use safe words--to protect both parties. As always, communication and trust are key.


----------



## lifeistooshort

GettingIt said:


> I suspect this is at the heart of it for me, too.
> 
> I'm kinda a b*tch and I don't want a man who stands for it. I'm not submissive, but I can be MADE to submit by a man who can out-dom me. And when that happens, I'm putty in his hands.



Me too. To some extent I've had to train him as he tends to be very passive aggressive and won't speak up but will make snarky comments under his breath. I find this cowardly and don't respect it.

We had an argument recently and he told me to stop my f$cking sarcasm. I was secretly impressed he had the b&lls to say that to me, he wouldn't have done that years ago. He's making progress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Binji

most women want the mighty joe young. Whether shes the innocent good girl, church girl, or a sexual wild flower, it doesnt really change. She wants her back broken. If you pound it so good that she cant walk and she cant feel her legs, then consider yourself a job well done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GettingIt_2

lifeistooshort said:


> Me too. To some extent I've had to train him as he tends to be very passive aggressive and won't speak up but will make snarky comments under his breath. I find this cowardly and don't respect it.
> 
> We had an argument recently and he told me to stop my f$cking sarcasm. I was secretly impressed he had the b&lls to say that to me, he wouldn't have done that years ago. He's making progress.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just came out and told my husband to stop letting me get away with giving him sh!t all the time. It affected my desire for him, but it took me a long time to figure that out and by then we'd fallen in to a pretty bad dynamic where I was a b!tch and he'd retreat from it and try to avoid setting me off. 

It's been corrected, but we did communicate about it A LOT because I didn't feel like I could just demand that he put up with my constant push-back when I didn't get my way. I work on not being such a pain in the butt, and he works on handling it when I am. 

It's been pretty great, so far. Like you, I'm always secretly impressed when he puts me in my place. Grateful, actually.


----------



## FalconKing

GettingIt said:


> It sounds like she might be into "consensual non consent." CNC kinksters typically enjoy being "forced" to have sex. The scenario you describe where she said she wasn't in the mood and you took her anyway is a good example.
> 
> 
> 
> She might not be entirely comfortable with owning her kink, if indeed she has a CNC fantasy. Women are taught that when they say no, it means no, and anything that goes against that is rape. So they are left with basically what amounts to a rape fantasy, which is something a lot of women will resist admitting even to themselves, let alone disclosing to a partner.
> 
> 
> 
> And for men, agreeing to indulge a CNC fantasy with a woman in a casual relationship can really feel like playing with fire--and rightfully so. Men are also aware of the "no means no" message, and even when they have a suspicion that the woman might be enjoying the rough stuff, they hold back because the consequences of misjudging her signals could be dire.
> 
> 
> 
> People who choose to indulge their CNC kink with awareness and intention know how to talk about it with their partners and know how to use safe words--to protect both parties. As always, communication and trust are key.



I'm about to break down and cry. I feel like you have just looked into my soul. You've explained well my reservations and why I feel this way. 

Even though it's casual now, when we were dating it was like this. It's her type of kink I suppose. And you are right. She'll never come out and say that but it's what she likes. And sometimes I want intimacy without all of that. One time in the middle of the night, we being intimate and she wanted to fight me off while we were having sex and I just yelled "Damnit can we have sex without me trying to rape you?!" She felt so embarrassed. And I apologized. 

Since you seem to know a lot about this subject matter, is there some natural progression after this. Her and my previous partner both liked me hair grabbing and getting rough with them. But also each of them expressed after some time that the both wanted to put on strap ons and bang me. And they were two totally different types of women. I really didn't think I gave off that vibe!!


----------



## lifeistooshort

GettingIt said:


> I just came out and told my husband to stop letting me get away with giving him sh!t all the time. It affected my desire for him, but it took me a long time to figure that out and by then we'd fallen in to a pretty bad dynamic where I was a b!tch and he'd retreat from it and try to avoid setting me off.
> 
> It's been corrected, but we did communicate about it A LOT because I didn't feel like I could just demand that he put up with my constant push-back when I didn't get my way. I work on not being such a pain in the butt, and he works on handling it when I am.
> 
> It's been pretty great, so far. Like you, I'm always secretly impressed when he puts me in my place. Grateful, actually.


My hb just comes from a family where they don't deal with anything. The elephant could be sitting in your lap and they'll look around it and talk about sports and the weather. He just buries his head in the sand so he doesn't have to be uncomfortable.

My family is in each others faces, but there's no underlying resentment and you always know where you stand. The head in the sand approach drives me crazy and I don't respect it at all. He does seem to be more willing to assert himself in the bedroom then outside it. We're working on it but it's a lifetime of behavior. Tough to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Coffee Amore

My husband is such a nice guy (not in any derogatory way as used on TAM) in his professional life and public life, that I love seeing that other very dominant side of him in private just for me. It does make me feel more feminine and very desired. And he would never do something I wouldn't want. He knows where my boundaries are. I agree good communication is a must. We've been together a long time, so we know each other very well. We've talked about what we wouldn't do. So when the dominance happens in a stable relationship built on love and trust, it's amazing. 

I agree with the previous posters. You can't have the same kind of sex all the time. It would be like eating the same thing for dinner each night. It gets so boring. So mix it up. Variety is the spice of life. Sometimes you want the roses, soft music and candlelight and sometimes you want the thorns, dirty talk and dominance.


----------



## GettingIt_2

FalconKing said:


> I'm about to break down and cry. I feel like you have just looked into my soul. You've explained well my reservations and why I feel this way.
> 
> Even though it's casual now, when we were dating it was like this. It's her type of kink I suppose. And you are right. She'll never come out and say that but it's what she likes. And sometimes I want intimacy without all of that. One time in the middle of the night, we being intimate and she wanted to fight me off while we were having sex and I just yelled "Damnit can we have sex without me trying to rape you?!" She felt so embarrassed. And I apologized.
> 
> Since you seem to know a lot about this subject matter, is there some natural progression after this. Her and my previous partner both liked me hair grabbing and getting rough with them. But also each of them expressed after some time that the both wanted to put on strap ons and bang me. And they were two totally different types of women. I really didn't think I gave off that vibe!!


Yes, well, if it's not your kink, it's going to be hard to indulge it for someone else all the time. Ideally, you'd be able to have it your way some of the time, too. Really, the only way to find mutual satisfaction is to talk openly and honestly about it. You could tell her what you observe about her desire and offer to learn more about it and indulge her fantasy SAFELY, but that it cannot be the be-all and end-all of your sexual relationship. Your desires and predilections are important, too. 

CNC is my thing,  but not all the time. Like many women here have observed, variety is the best. My husband and I have "vanilla" sex, too. I love sensual love making, and I love it when he focuses on my pleasure and expects nothing in return. 

As for a natural progression--I have no idea. I dare say it's different for everyone. For example, I have no urge to peg my husband. (Unless, of course, he'd tell me I had to or else-- then I'd be all over it ) 

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but, like you, I think my husband got tired of me trying to make sex into a rape scene all the time. I'd fight him pretty hard, trying to "make him make me" have sex with him. He finally sternly forbade me to fight him and instead instructed me that I was only to think of how to make it better for HIM. I'm now usually very focused on his pleasure and less so on trying to turn the sex into a rape fantasy. If I fail, he stops the action until I cease resisting. This fulfills my desire for him to dominate me, because he made it clear in no uncertain terms that resistance was not what he wanted or expected when he initiates sex--and he uses it to control me sexually. Am I good at complying *all* the time--no, I'm not. But that just affords him the opportunity to stop the action and remind me of "my place." It's a work around . . . but it works for us BOTH, which is all that matters.


----------



## over20

Binji said:


> most women want the mighty joe young. Whether shes the innocent good girl, church girl, or a sexual wild flower, it doesnt really change. She wants her back broken. If you pound it so good that she cant walk and she cant feel her legs, then consider yourself a job well done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:allhail:




Binji, you need to post more 



Oh, and WELCOME to TAM!


----------



## heartsbeating

COguy said:


> For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?


Again, I don't view dominant and assertive as 'aggressive' but I'll play along and consider we're meaning a similar thing.

The outcome is still mutually beneficial. This isn't just about him using my body to get off. In fact, couldn't be further from that. It's knowing one another so well, and paying close attention to each others responses that makes this type of sex _hawt_. It's in the intensity, the unpredictability, the body-language, the feeling of raw desire ...in a way that's a turn on to both of us.

Jack-hammered for 2 minutes sounds (to me) boring and lacking in connection. I wouldn't be leaving my number on the stair saying, _'Thank you for a funky time, call me up whenever you wanna grind...' _ Quickies can be hot but it's still about paying attention and being present. At least in my world.


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> First off, I DID NOT KNOW YOU WERE A WOMAN! You have some of the craziest ass post. You play Halo and like the smell of gasoline, for crying out loud. *I have many layers, like an onion  I am also an insufferable pompous windbag, especially when I'm drunk. Just ask my husband.*
> 
> My and my FWB(there is no other way to put) dated but broke up. With both enjoy a lot of intimacy so we just have sex until one of us finds somebody else. She was in a near sexless marriage and I am the second person she has been with. I always made her feel comfortable so she came out of her shell. But coming out of her shell means she really likes rough dominate sex. If it was up to me, sex would be me giving her oral, sucking breast, fingers, toes, so necking and missionary with us making a lot of eye contact and making out. She says that's fine but whenever we start it's like she becomes possessed. We probably had sex about 500 times. And whenever I ask her the ones she enjoyed most: there was this time she was playing on her phone in the bed and said she wasn't in the mood. I rolled over to sleep. Then I said f*ck it. I got up, knocked the phone out of her hand and just took her.
> *I have to concur with Getting it: it appears that she is into consensual-nonconsent. I also agree that in the context of a casual relationship, this is dangerous. In a non-casual relationship, this can be fun, but the Dominant must always be able to read those cues to be able to determine when "no" actually means "no," and when it does not necessarily mean that. In a long term, especially marriage, relationship, the partners become so much in tune to what each other is feeling from moment to moment, that the "non-consent" fantasy is more safe. I am concerned that in such a casual relationship, that you are perhaps placing yourself in a very vulnerable position. What if no actually means no, one of these days? It is not only about her safety, but yours as well*
> 
> Also there was a time when she was going through some things with her family. And knowing what she liked I wanted her to lose herself in intimacy with me. I dragged and flipped her all over the bed, said dominating and arrogant things to her, and even chocked her a little. She really enjoyed that. But afterwards she told me I was really mean. I didn't know what to say... Then she was like, "but I loved it!" Wtf??


*It can be disturbing for a man to do this with a woman. You have been told to never strike a woman, never hurt her, always be respectful. My dear husband disclosed to me that he might be a bit of a "spanker," but did not know if he could actually do this to me, because he respects me so much (I had to actually give him instructions on the proper technique of spanking, and then ORDER him to do it to me. He was afraid to hurt me. I told him: "I decide when enough is enough, understand?" We proceeded to have a very good time.) Understand that you CAN respect a woman, and still dominate her in the bedroom. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I think you two should initiate a safe word, which should NOT include words such as "stop," "no," "please don't," or anything like that, simply because she IS one of those consensual-nonconsent types. Think of something unrelated. I prefer "red," which means "stop it right now." That way, if "no" really does mean "no," she can communicate that clearly, and both of you are safe. 

I also think that you should consider your own comfort level with all this "dommy-aggression-rough" stuff. If you are not into this sort of thing, then you need to assert yourself, and possibly find another partner. You do NOT have to do this, if you are uncomfortable with it. You should not to have to do something that you do not feel comfortable with.*


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Lyris said:


> I think it's more about feeling that he is so turned on he can't control himself. He's not thinking logically, or able to be considerate. He wants you, he's taking you.
> 
> Rawr.


This right here is IT...one of the top fantasies of women are .. not the best name for these, but the good ol' *RAPE FANTASY*.. - many feel these should be called "Ravishing fantasy".....

Explained here >> Rape Fantasies: Why Do Some Women Have Them? | HUSH Magazine



> Rape or near-rape fantasies are central to romance novels, one of the perennial best-selling categories in fiction. These books are often called "bodice-rippers" and have titles like Love's Sweet Savage Fury, which imply at least some degree of force. In them,* a handsome cad becomes so overwhelmed by his attraction to the heroine that he loses all control and must have her, even if she refuses--which she does initially, but then eventually melts into submission, desire, and ultimately fulfillment.*
> 
> Romance novels are often called "porn for women." Porn is all about sexual fantasies. In porn for men, the fantasy is sexual abundance--eager women who can't get enough and have no interest in a relationship. In porn for women as depicted in romance novels, the fantasy is to be desired so much that the man loses all control, though he never actually hurts the woman, and in the end, marries her.


I married a Gentleman.. he is ALWAYS sensual.. a Love maker..Being the romantic I am.. I love this, and need it.. 

Yet I have another side to me.. and one of my ONLY complaints about him is.. he can't give me that Ravishing fantasy where he is DRIVING me 100%... he can't DO "Rough"..(even did a thread on it)..... even his trying to spank me... there's me saying ..."Harder Harder baby ...beat me!"...







with pulling my hair..I end up saying "Rip it out!".. really , if anyone heard us , it'd be hilarious.. and we Do laugh about.. so we're still having FUN.

What can you [email protected]#....the twist with us is : I CAN BE these things..so we're still enjoying a Part of this...he loves that unbridled lust coming at him.. that I gotta have him NOW...I get off on playing the Seductress.. the other half of my fantasies is "taking the man down"...I think subconsciously this might explain why I always had an attraction to shy guys... 

I still love my Gentleman ...and he calls me his Roller Derby woman with a ... yet I will always understand *why* women want some of that !


----------



## omgitselaine

http://www.mojoimage.com/


----------



## SimplyAmorous

HappyGilmore said:


> *It can be disturbing for a man to do this with a woman. You have been told to never strike a woman, never hurt her, always be respectful. My dear husband disclosed to me that he might be a bit of a "spanker," but did not know if he could actually do this to me, because he respects me so much (I had to actually give him instructions on the proper technique of spanking, and then ORDER him to do it to me. He was afraid to hurt me. I told him: "I decide when enough is enough, understand?" We proceeded to have a very good time.) Understand that you CAN respect a woman, and still dominate her in the bedroom. The two are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> I think you two should initiate a safe word, which should NOT include words such as "stop," "no," "please don't," or anything like that, simply because she IS one of those consensual-nonconsent types. Think of something unrelated. I prefer "red," which means "stop it right now." That way, if "no" really does mean "no," she can communicate that clearly, and both of you are safe.
> 
> I also think that you should consider your own comfort level with all this "dommy-aggression-rough" stuff. If you are not into this sort of thing, then you need to assert yourself, and possibly find another partner. You do NOT have to do this, if you are uncomfortable with it. You should not to have to do something that you do not feel comfortable with.*


I bought this book in hopes to loosen my H up on this.. it was specifically written for men LIKE HIM..and what you describe in your 1st paragraph ..how us women wanting this can be "disturbing" to these men.. 

Just **** Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples) - Books


----------



## TiggyBlue

FalconKing said:


> Ha! I've heard similar. "Don't slap my ass... But grab it really hard! And leave bruises!"


There is a difference between playing submissive and actually being "forced" to submit, someone who is forced to submit it really would be able to say give any sort of orders (that are fulfilling their needs).
Even with having rape fantasies a woman is in total with who it would be with and how the type of guy it plays out ect, it's not really anything that would resemble a actual rape.


p.s Hey FalconKing


----------



## ocotillo

HappyGilmore said:


> It can be disturbing for a man to do this with a woman. You have been told to never strike a woman, never hurt her, always be respectful.


That is a part of it that I think exists at an intellectual level. And because of that, it can be counteracted with reason. A man would have to have serious reading comprehension problems to read through this thread and not understand the distinction the ladies are explaining at an intellectual level. 

There is a more visceral reaction though that is harder to control. Imagine the strongest feelings of aggression towards another human being you can possibly conjure up. There's a video that got posted to Facebook recently of a man holding a dog helplessly by the hind legs and kicking it repeatedly in the stomach and laughing while it screams in pain. I'm not going to describe how much fun I would have with this man if I could catch him. It would just be disturbing. But you can use your imagination. 

This is not a mood that is compatible with lovemaking. Not mentally and more importantly, not physiologically. I read _Fifty Shades of Grey_ out curiosity and although it's pretty tame, still found myself slipping into that mood in a couple of places. I know that's irrational, but emotions don't always make rational sense.


----------



## HappyGilmore

ocotillo said:


> That is a part of it that I think exists at an intellectual level. And because of that, it can be counteracted with reason. A man would have to have serious reading comprehension problems to read through this thread and not understand the distinction the ladies are explaining at an intellectual level.
> 
> There is a more visceral reaction though that is harder to control. Imagine the strongest feelings of aggression towards another human being you can possibly conjure up. There's a video that got posted to Facebook recently of a man holding a dog helplessly by the hind legs and kicking it repeatedly in the stomach and laughing while it screams in pain. I'm not going to describe how much fun I would have with this man if I could catch him. It would just be disturbing. But you can use your imagination.
> 
> This is not a mood that is compatible with lovemaking. Not mentally and more importantly, not physiologically. I read _Fifty Shades of Grey_ out curiosity and although it's pretty tame, still found myself slipping into that mood in a couple of places. I know that's irrational, but emotions don't always make rational sense.


You are a fine man, and your wife is a lucky woman. Don't worry that this kind of sexual behavior elicits this kind of reaction for you. It is okay that you are not only not into that, but it brings up protective impulses in you. That is a sign of your goodness. Your feelings on this are completely valid and understandable. I mean that.

And don't get me started on Fifty Shades of Grey, as you know that I've already spewed enough of my bile about these poor excuses for books.


----------



## Miss Taken

To me, the soft, slow and sensual is great foreplay. I think I've made myself clear that I prefer rough but do like to switch it up with the more slow-paced love making. Like Ele said, chocolate cake is her favourite but it'd be sad to live without ice cream. I feel the same.

Also, as for first encounters I would probably be put off if the guy went right in with some of the stuff my spouse and I like to do now. I do like to take it slower in the beginning of a sexual relationship. Take time to learn each other's bodies and what works for them, read the signs, learn their kinks and have him learn mine. I would not want to be thrown around like a ragdoll and pounded into the mattress the first time I had sex with a guy... it'd probably scare me off.

As for the person that said the guy slapped her. Yeah, that would be a deal-breaker for me. Don't slap my face. E.V.E.R. A well timed spank on the butt is a totally different and usually enjoyable thing.


----------



## COguy

Miss Taken said:


> My orgasms are very important. His dominance is also important. I don't think I'd be willing to give up either.
> 
> Even being dominant, he's still very generous and always makes sure that I orgasm, often multiple times before he does. Still, he takes the lead by initiating certain acts that he knows will make me orgasm. Then when it's "his turn" he pounds the sh1t out of me and I enjoy it lol.
> 
> Even though I do enjoy a good pound by him, it doesn't mean that dominance in bed is synonymous with "rough". Although it can be. It has much more to do with his assertiveness and taking the lead... Flipping me over and putting me in certain positions. He doesn't tip-toe around me in the bedroom. He just expects that this will happen and he is almost always right. Also, of course certain positions are naturally more submissive ones to be in for the woman, like doggy style and missionary as he's on top.


That's pretty much how it works now. I let her come then give her the pounding (this is, when we're f*cking and not making sweet sweet love). But I don't think she likes it rough as much after she Os. If we start in missionary, she's been really into it, and I'll stop before I come and tell her to get in top so she can have her fun. I debate in my head every time if I should just keep going...


----------



## HappyGilmore

Again, FalconKing, I think you've had some good answers, but I thought I'd a more humorous post about how different women are, when it comes to rape fantasy.

When I was a teenager, I used to play Dungeons & Dragons with my friends (okay, make fun of me about it. You know you want to.) Of course, in any gathering of unattended teenagers, things WILL turn sexual, so our games of D&D tended to land in the gutter pretty quickly. 

My female character would always be powerful, strong in character, and would always cause men to be in awe of her. She wasn't b*tchy by any stretch, just carried herself and spoke with authority.

When my best friend would be dungeon master, she would always have male characters trying to rape my female character. The dice always seemed to roll in my favor, because my character would always kill them off quickly before they had a chance to put their hands on her. My friend would always be dismayed and ask me why I would do this, and I would reply that neither I, nor my character, appreciates the rape-stuff--so knock it off! 

Conversely, when someone else was dungeon master, my friend would always "welcome" the rape of her female character. And I would just shake my head in disbelief.

Turns out, years later, that my friend discovered she is a submissive. And she would say to me that she knew I was a dome because of the characters I would create. 

(As I've said before, I don't mind my husband "taking" me, but it is in a different context entirely: both physically and mentally).


----------



## FalconKing

Happy, that's funny but at the same time really interesting. You know I debated whether or not to make this topic. I was expecting some hypersensitive people to bash me. But this has been so insightful. Also, I want to clarify. I know people have said it's not good to have this in a causal relationship. But I have known her for over ten years and we did date for 8 months. And I just wanted to know why she and other women like that kind of sex and I think people have done a great job of explaining it. 

To be honest the whole thing seems rather complicated. I'm not complaining, just saying: A lot of women want a man who can dominate them but at the same time their dominance can't be self centered. Some women like a little pain with their pleasure. Spanking, hair pulling, biting.. Etc.. But it's specific to each woman. Because while one woman may be turned on by one thing, another may be degraded. Also, even while being love, some women don't want to make love. They want to fvck. Hahaha and every now and then making love is ok.

Another question: for the women that like spankings, biting, hair pulling.. What is the connection for that to your arousal? What is it about the pain that you enjoy? How does it add and not detract from your sexual experience? For the ones that don't enjoy it I think it would be obvious why. But you ladies can chime in too! Hell, anybody can respond!


----------



## 2ntnuf

> A lot of women want a man who can dominate them but at the same time their dominance can't be self centered. Some women like a little pain with their pleasure. Spanking, hair pulling, biting.. Etc.. But it's specific to each woman. Because while one woman may be turned on by one thing, another may be degraded. Also, even while being love, some women don't want to make love. They want to fvck. Hahaha and every now and then making love is ok.


And it seems all or most of the answers to these questions are found through physical and verbal responses when the acts are attempted. 

And verbal here doesn't mean intelligible verbage. ha


----------



## FalconKing

2ntnuf said:


> And it seems all or most of the answers to these questions are found through physical and verbal responses when the acts are attempted.
> 
> And verbal here doesn't mean intelligible verbage. ha



If there was ever an example of communication being the key, it would be this thread and subject matter. Hands down.


----------



## Lyris

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> Happy, that's funny but at the same time really interesting. You know I debated whether or not to make this topic. I was expecting some hypersensitive people to bash me. But this has been so insightful. Also, I want to clarify. I know people have said it's not good to have this in a causal relationship. But I have known her for over ten years and we did date for 8 months. And I just wanted to know why she and other women like that kind of sex and I think people have done a great job of explaining it.
> 
> To be honest the whole thing seems rather complicated. I'm not complaining, just saying: A lot of women want a man who can dominate them but at the same time their dominance can't be self centered. Some women like a little pain with their pleasure. Spanking, hair pulling, biting.. Etc.. But it's specific to each woman. Because while one woman may be turned on by one thing, another may be degraded. Also, even while being love, some women don't want to make love. They want to fvck. Hahaha and every now and then making love is ok.
> 
> Another question: for the women that like spankings, biting, hair pulling.. What is the connection for that to your arousal? What is it about the pain that you enjoy? How does it add and not detract from your sexual experience? For the ones that don't enjoy it I think it would be obvious why. But you ladies can chime in too! Hell, anybody can respond!


As a kinkster, I would happy to address this. Spanking, biting, hair pulling on its own without the context of sex is just plain painful. If someone out of the blue bit me, pulled my hair, or hit me on the rear they would get what is coming to them, and they would most certainly NOT enjoy it. 

In the context of sexual arousal, for me it is just stronger stimuli. Spanking in particular has an ability to increase blood flow to the genitals, resulting in further arousal. However, one does not start out by whacking away at someone. Arousal comes first, then warm up, then increasing the stimuli until the receiver has reached his/her limit. I have flogged, paddled, and riding cropped my husband, and I have also been on the receiving end of it. The sensations from this form of stimulation are amazing. 

Biting...it depends on where, but I find that being bit on the neck is highly arousing because my neck is one of my erogenous zones. But, again, if I am not aroused to begin with, a bite on the neck would not end well for the one doing it. Some like other parts of their bodies bit. My husband likes it when I sink my teeth into his nipples. His neck, not so much because he is ticklish there. 

Hair pulling...some like to have their pony tails grabbed and held onto during sexual intercourse, even have their heads pulled back. The scalp itself has many nerve endings, this is why a scalp massage feels soooo good. I prefer my husband to grab a handful of hair close to my scalp, then alternate releasing and grabbing it again. It is more like a very strong scalp massage, in my case. 

Is it that we like pain? Hard to say, because when sexual arousal is involved, it can blur that line between pain and pleasure. 

Additionally, some of these practices can make the submissive feel more submissive, which adds to his/her pleasure. When I grab a handful of my husbands hair and pull his head back, I know he is feeling submissive. The same goes for when I use the flogger on him, or bite him. 

For me, I have yet to "feel" submissive, so I'll just say I'm a domme when I dominate my submissive husband, and a sensation-bottom when I allow him to top me.


----------



## FalconKing

HappyGilmore said:


> As a kinkster, I would happy to address this. Spanking, biting, hair pulling on its own without the context of sex is just plain painful. If someone out of the blue bit me, pulled my hair, or hit me on the rear they would get what is coming to them, and they would most certainly NOT enjoy it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the context of sexual arousal, for me it is just stronger stimuli. Spanking in particular has an ability to increase blood flow to the genitals, resulting in further arousal. However, one does not start out by whacking away at someone. Arousal comes first, then warm up, then increasing the stimuli until the receiver has reached his/her limit. I have flogged, paddled, and riding cropped my husband, and I have also been on the receiving end of it. The sensations from this form of stimulation are amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> Biting...it depends on where, but I find that being bit on the neck is highly arousing because my neck is one of my erogenous zones. But, again, if I am not aroused to begin with, a bite on the neck would not end well for the one doing it. Some like other parts of their bodies bit. My husband likes it when I sink my teeth into his nipples. His neck, not so much because he is ticklish there.
> 
> 
> 
> Hair pulling...some like to have their pony tails grabbed and held onto during sexual intercourse, even have their heads pulled back. The scalp itself has many nerve endings, this is why a scalp massage feels soooo good. I prefer my husband to grab a handful of hair close to my scalp, then alternate releasing and grabbing it again. It is more like a very strong scalp massage, in my case.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it that we like pain? Hard to say, because when sexual arousal is involved, it can blur that line between pain and pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally, some of these practices can make the submissive feel more submissive, which adds to his/her pleasure. When I grab a handful of my husbands hair and pull his head back, I know he is feeling submissive. The same goes for when I use the flogger on him, or bite him.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, I have yet to "feel" submissive, so I'll just say I'm a domme when I dominate my submissive husband, and a sensation-bottom when I allow him to top me.



That was very well explained. It's almost like I wanted to know the meaning to life and was given the complete answer with footnotes and references. I get it!


----------



## FalconKing

Exactly that, Lyris.


----------



## 2ntnuf

FalconKing said:


> Exactly that, Lyris.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## heartsbeating

HappyGilmore, when you write a book I'm buying it 


My husband was biting (albeit relatively gently) on my shoulder close to my neck. He knows my neck is one of my zones too. And then, because he can be a goofball at times, started gummy biting me instead. We ended up in stitches laughing and joking around. Humor and laughter, also a turn on.


----------



## Jetranger

Soft and sensual to start… but then you can shift gears depending on the mood.

Sometimes missionary staring into each other’s eyes and fingers intertwined… sometimes doggy style (I had one girl abruptly turn her head and bite my forearm… wow!) so long as it never gets repetitive. Jackhammering has its place – after a shower turns sexy, don’t waste time, jump out and throw the towels onto the bed, throw her on the towels and GO FOR IT. I told them when we’re done, we’ll wait 20 minutes then I’ll lick you until your eyes roll back in your head, and we’ll go for it again.

It's all down to the mood at the time, and that can change mid-act. Always keep the lube or toys close at hand so if inspiration strikes, you can try something new.


----------



## ocotillo

HappyGilmore said:


> You are a fine man, and your wife is a lucky woman. Don't worry that this kind of sexual behavior elicits this kind of reaction for you.


That's very nice of you. I might be imagining in my head far more than what people actually have in mind too. The amount of physical force to "Dominate" my wife (She is 6'-3" and grew up in a military environment) would be substantial.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good afternoon all
Rough play really requires good communication. Otherwise the person who likes being submissive may *think* it is obvious what they want, when it isn't at all clear to their partner. Do they want to be picked up and thrown on the bed for sex when they've said they aren't interested? Do they want spanking, hair pulling, verbal abuse? 

This is tricky with my wife. She is a bit of a masochist - but doesn't admit it, and doesn't communicate at all well. It leaves me trying to guess what she wants. (by masochist, I mean she orgasms quickly from things that are also uncomfortable / painful - large toys used roughly, or anal). I can usually tell what she wants, but it would help a lot if she could talk about it. 

I'm happy with all sorts of play, but sometimes the guesswork is tough.


----------



## samyeagar

My wife is very much like many of the women here. She definately enjoys sex being very physical, biting, ass slapping, digging the fingernails in, hair pulling, hard pounding, but as some of the women have pointed out, timing is probably the most important part of the enjoyment for her. 

Neither of us are very vocal during sex, but our ability to communicate non verbally, her ability to shift her hips a certain way, wrap a leg just so, roll just right, and my knowing her body the way that I do, and being able to pick up on what she wants when she wants has allowed us to blend extremely well sexually, everything is so smooth, natural.


----------



## Thor

This thread is fascinating and depressing for me. My wife doesn't want rough sex at all _with me_ but did to some extent with her previous lovers. Her sex abuse history makes it a horrible experience within the marriage.

I am petrified of trying with her anything people mention in this thread as enjoyable, such as spanking, hair pulling, or biting.


----------



## samyeagar

Lila said:


> Falconking, I don't wish to derail your thread but I have a tangent question related to your OP. I didn't know whether to start a new thread as this might be a non-starter question. Anyways....
> 
> I'm one of the only women who has little to no interest in rough sex and have always felt I was odd, for lack of a better word. I've asked DH if he craves rougher sex, and he's mentioned having to hold himself back a few times from pulling my hair, spanking my butt, or "pounding me into the headboard".
> 
> *So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that*?


I enjoy very physical sex even though it is a whole lot more work  I'm not so sure I would use the term "manly" as in it makes me feel more "manly". For me, it is right along the lines and goes hand in hand with what many women say for themselves, they like the feeling that they turn their man on so much that he loses all control and just has to have her...I enjoy the feeling of my woman wanting me to ravage her body...for her to be so overcome that she wants me just take her, that she "surrenders".

That said, I enjoy the flip side too. Of her just "taking me" for the same reasons.


----------



## chillymorn

kiss them like you love them BANG them like you hate them.

come to mind after reading this thread.

then cuddle!


----------



## over20

Thor said:


> This thread is fascinating and depressing for me. My wife doesn't want rough sex at all _with me_ but did to some extent with her previous lovers. Her sex abuse history makes it a horrible experience within the marriage.
> 
> I am petrified of trying with her anything people mention in this thread as enjoyable, such as spanking, hair pulling, or biting.



Could you maybe do those things but is a softer way.....a light nibble instead of biting or soft pats instead of a hard swat? Baby steps that can be talked about later?:scratchhead:


----------



## Jetranger

chillymorn said:


> kiss them like you love them BANG them like you hate them.
> 
> come to mind after reading this thread.
> 
> then cuddle!


I was told by a woman that she liked make-up sex so much she'd actually sometimes start trouble just to get that aggression and energy from when you've been on edge and now release it by wanting to screw your partner inside-out. 

I'd never thought of it like that before, I'm not sure I like the idea of provoking what seems like a real fight, but damn I like the idea of the high-energy passion 

I suppose we see some of that in soap opera cliches where the couple shouts (or she slaps him then he slaps her back) and then after a moment's pause they jump on each other.


----------



## always_alone

Lila said:


> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


Maybe for some, certainly not for all. My SO and I are quite similar in this regard: our pain pathways and pleasure pathways are separate. He doesn't want to bang me like he hates me anymore than I want him to.

This does not mean that sex with him is tepid, boring, slow, lacking in variety or passion, or any of the other negatives that seem to be contrasted with "rough" in this thread.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lila said:


> Falconking, I don't wish to derail your thread but I have a tangent question related to your OP. I didn't know whether to start a new thread as this might be a non-starter question. Anyways....
> 
> I'm one of the only women who has little to no interest in rough sex and have always felt I was odd, for lack of a better word. I've asked DH if he craves rougher sex, and he's mentioned having to hold himself back a few times from pulling my hair, spanking my butt, or "pounding me into the headboard".
> 
> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


I don't know if it's to feel manly, but there is a bit of caveman to it. I want to be aggressive, physical and assert myself. Lovey dovey sex can be pretty dull by comparison. My EW had a distinct preference for sensual sex and honestly, I did feel kind of neutered by it. Maybe that's overblowing it a bit, but sometimes I would wonder "Are you sure you wouldn't prefer having sex with a woman?"

Drove me nuts and put all this pressure on me to make every sexual experience some overly romantic sensual thing. In all the years I was married, we had make up sex exactly 0 times.


----------



## ocotillo

Lila said:


> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


I guess it depends on how you define, "Manly." Is being rough with someone with less that 1/4 the grip strength in their hands that you have, "Manly?"


----------



## samyeagar

Lila said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> Dvls - Why does physically aggressive and assertive sex have to equate to rough sex? Why does it have to be all or nothing?


I am wondering...it seems like we all have our own personal definition of what constitutes "rough" sex, and one persons physical and assertive may not be considered "rough" to them, but someone else is seeing it as barbaric.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening Lila
I enjoy lots of variety in sex. To me rough sex is in the same category as bondage, or bdsm, or role playing: its another fun thing to do in bed, but not something that in any way makes me feel "manly". 

Everyone has their interests. For me, "forced" (play only of course) sex is exciting (with either gender on "top"), but "rough" (energetic motions) doesn't do anything for me. A bit of BDSM (spanking etc) would be fun, but I have no interest at verbal degradation type stuff. 

I guess this is my earlier point - different people like different things, which is why communication is so important for this type of play. It can be great fun - but misinterpretations couldl be really unfortunate. 




Lila said:


> Falconking, I don't wish to derail your thread but I have a tangent question related to your OP. I didn't know whether to start a new thread as this might be a non-starter question. Anyways....
> 
> I'm one of the only women who has little to no interest in rough sex and have always felt I was odd, for lack of a better word. I've asked DH if he craves rougher sex, and he's mentioned having to hold himself back a few times from pulling my hair, spanking my butt, or "pounding me into the headboard".
> 
> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


----------



## Jetranger

It's fun, energetic, exciting and unpredictable. Plus, when you're throwing each other around and doing stuff like that, you feel like she's crazy with desire for you which is a huge ego boost. It makes you feel like a love god and spurs you on, you want to push even harder and leave her (not literally) walking with a limp for a week. 

It's those sort of super passionate encounters that I remember and probably will for the rest of my life.


----------



## ocotillo

samyeagar said:


> I am wondering...it seems like we all have our own personal definition of what constitutes "rough" sex, and one persons physical and assertive may not be considered "rough" to them, but someone else is seeing it as barbaric.


I think you've hit the nail on the head, samy. We've had similar discussions on TAM before and one of the ladies (FW) linked to a clip from the movie, _Continental Divide_.

The, "Roughness" here is almost entirely implied through the chase and noises. When it comes to actual physical contact, (2:00) you can see that he's careful to distribute her weight across the whole of his hand making sure that his thumbs and index fingers don't dig into the sensitive areas under the arm. 

I would call that that gently assertive, but not even remotely "Rough."


----------



## Thor

over20 said:


> Could you maybe do those things but is a softer way.....a light nibble instead of biting or soft pats instead of a hard swat? Baby steps that can be talked about later?:scratchhead:


I doubt it. For years I would notice her checking out during sex if I tried anything assertive or at all rough. She'd turn her head or become very passive. I didn't know of her CSA history until very recently, and thus didn't know I was triggering her trauma. I am thus conditioned not to try anything assertive or dominant, and I don't think she could tolerate it.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Lila said:


> Falconking, I don't wish to derail your thread but I have a tangent question related to your OP. I didn't know whether to start a new thread as this might be a non-starter question. Anyways....
> 
> I'm one of the only women who has little to no interest in rough sex and have always felt I was odd, for lack of a better word. I've asked DH if he craves rougher sex, and he's mentioned having to hold himself back a few times from pulling my hair, spanking my butt, or "pounding me into the headboard".
> 
> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


That's an excellent question. For me, in my previous (and abusive) relationship, rough sex was something he wanted as a way to further hurt me. In my marriage however, I like rough sex because it is a form of variety. I don't want to speak for my husband but my sense is it has little to do with feeling "manly" and more to do with pleasing me.


----------



## samyeagar

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That's an excellent question. For me, in my previous (and abusive) relationship, rough sex was something he wanted as a way to further hurt me. In my marriage however, I like rough sex because it is a form of variety. I don't want to speak for my husband but my sense is *it has little to do with feeling "manly" and more to do with pleasing me*.


Ahh...but for a lot of us men, those two things are one and the same.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

samyeagar said:


> I am wondering...it seems like we all have our own personal definition of what constitutes "rough" sex, and one persons physical and assertive may not be considered "rough" to them, but someone else is seeing it as barbaric.



Boy if that isn't the truth.

*Edited to add one persons "rough sex" could be doggy style while anothers could be clamps and a car battery. I kid but you get the point.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

samyeagar said:


> Ahh...but for a lot of us men, those two things are one and the same.


Great point.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lila said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> Dvls - Why does physically aggressive and assertive sex have to equate to rough sex? Why does it have to be all or nothing?


I used "physical" rather than "rough", because some of the things associated with rough, aren't that important to me - hair pulling, @ss slapping etc. But can you have aggressive sensual sex? Sounds contradictory to me. Aggressively touch softly?

Physical, to me, is about my control over her body and exerting my passion - not all the BDSM stuff. Its passionate grabbing and holds, a faster pace, and pulling her hips up to me, flipping her or otherwise "throwing" her (not the best word to describe this). For example - a strong grip of her legs/hips as she contorts or orgasms while I'm going down on her... I enjoy wrestling with those movements and pulling her back to me. Her pleasure turns me on and when I move on from oral, I want to just grab her and in one sudden physical movement snap her down so my body is between her legs. I don't want to be gentle... I want to possess her. When changing positions I don't want to gently roll her or softly place her this way or that and caress... I want to use my strength and flip her over or move her like she weighs nothing, pin her arms and f*ck.

I don't associate such sex with sensuality. Sensual sex is a fine change of pace other times, but I prefer to grope and be groped and to make her dig fingernails into me while struggling for breath. I prefer that sort of physical wrestling sex. My ex and I were on totally opposite pages on this. While I still wanted sex, one thing that made me unhappy was awareness that she didn't want sex the way I did (or much at all, but that's another story). I want her to enjoy it, and she was the LD in the relationship, so that meant my pursuit virtually always had to be on her terms to seduce her into sex... or I'm left feeling that she didn't enjoy it, or worse, deflated when I'd pursue my way.

When I think of mind blowing sex... nice, soft and sensual doesn't come to mind. My ex and I just weren't really compatible in our preferences I think. What she wanted from sex, was basically the same thing she'd get from cuddling on the couch watching a movie - and I can't describe how much or even why that bothered me.

It's not all or nothing. There is sensual sex. There is more physical sex, and there is sensual sex that becomes physical. But some times, if not the majority of the time, I want to get physical - throw caution and inhibition to the wind and get with the f*cking. I'd be lying if I said there's no ego in it... just as its more pleasurable to me, I also enjoy the after sex feeling that "I wrecked it" upon seeing her legs shake and looking totally spent and wore out. It's an awesomely satisfying feeling. Lovey dovey sex ends and I'm not spent... nobody is worn out... and it wasn't very exciting or satisfying to me. Everyone has their preferences, and honestly, it took me awhile to understand this was an important preference of mine - whereas prior, I was just happy to have sex whichever way I could get it.


----------



## samyeagar

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Boy if that isn't the truth.
> 
> *Edited to add one persons "rough sex" could be doggy style while anothers could be clamps and a car battery. I kid but you get the point.


This. It is all so nuanced. I wouldn't really consider what my wife and I have "rough" so much as very hard and physical sometimes.

Not too long ago, we discovered that doggie style across the water bed allowed us both to get exceptional leverage. She casually pointed out afterwards once that I could always go harder if I wanted, and the next time, we both went at it so hard she ended up with both her ass cheeks bruised, and that's what she was talking about


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Physical, to me, is about my control over her body and exerting my passion - not all the BDSM stuff. Its passionate grabbing and holds, a faster pace, and pulling her hips up to me, flipping her or otherwise "throwing" her (not the best word to describe this). For example - a strong grip of her legs/hips as she contorts or orgasms while I'm going down on her... I enjoy wrestling with those movements and pulling her back to me. Her pleasure turns me on and when I move on from oral, I want to just grab her and in one sudden physical movement snap her down so my body is between her legs. I don't want to be gentle... I want to possess her. When changing positions I don't want to gently roll her or softly place her this way or that and caress... I want to use my strength and flip her over or move her like she weighs nothing, pin her arms and f*ck.


Well now...


----------



## samyeagar

committed4ever said:


> This is so true! What I call "rough sex" is serious doggie style pounding, some a$$ slaps, some biting. Or coming into the bathroom after I step out of the shower and bending me over, no questions asked. Now, what I call kinky is ... well, better not get into that. LOL!
> 
> I don't think I can take serious pain like flogging, etc.
> 
> Addressing the subject of how to initiate this kind of rough play, I just don't see how you can do it until you know and trust the partner extremely well. My H, who had been around the block quite a few times before he married me (he is my one and only) was all kind of surprised that I wanted this kinky stuff. And I was all kinds of scared to bring it up with him. But I don't know how it would have gone over if HE told ME he wanted it. I sort of think I would have felt a bit negative toward him bringing it up. I don't know why though.


And what I call rough sex is something I know my wife would not really care for, and to be honest neither do I, but my ex wife...she did. Think broken furniture, cracked drywall, minor injuries...part of why my wife and I are just so damned good in bed together...we are intuitively on the same page pretty much all the time...


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Well now...
> 
> View attachment 28257


:rofl: Sorry! 

Just trying to explain what I mean by physical without the connotation of whips, chains and beating associated with "rough".

It's not rough in the sense of risk of injury (well, as long as nobody hits a hard part of furniture). Its more that I want to show my strength and put her where I want her... urgently.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> :rofl: Sorry!
> 
> Just trying to explain what I mean by physical without the connotation of whips, chains and beating associated with "rough".
> 
> It's not rough in the sense of risk of injury (well, as long as nobody hits a hard part of furniture). Its more that I want to show my strength and put her where I want her... urgently.


I get that. Your description was just um, well. Let's just say Texas isn't the only thing that is hot right now.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I guess I understand the pain thing, but only the heat of the moment kind - biting, nails digging... tbh I never seem to notice I'm hurt until later. Hop in the shower and feel that sting from the fingernail scratches and I'm like "wtf woman! You drew blood!"

But at the same time I'm grinning because I think, "I must have been doing a pretty good job."


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening Lila
I suspect that is true for most people and most fantasies

There is also a middle ground where you modify a fantasy to make it practical. A bit of role-play, a soft whip that barely hurts, etc and you can "pretend" that you are being beaten and forced against your will, but with only enough pain to remind you of the fantasy.

Then of course there are people who are masochists in that they enjoy actual pain. (which is fine to as long as they avoid serious injury)

There is a remarkable amount of variation. I have one female friend who is into BDSM and described her interests. I am also somewhat into BDSM, but there was basically nothing in common between what we enjoyed. 




Lila said:


> (snip)
> 
> I guess in my head, the fantasy IS better than the reality.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I don't like these threads....but that was a GREAT post DvlsAdvc8....how you explained that !

They just make me feel like my H can't measure up to something that other men seem to do easily... or my sexual expectations are too HIGH.... 

I think it would take his needing hypnotized or higher test levels to do some of these things ....kinda sucks...for me.


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't like these threads....but that was a GREAT post DvlsAdvc8....how you explained that !
> 
> They just make me feel like my H can't measure up to something that other men seem to do easily... or my sexual expectations are too HIGH....
> 
> I think it would take his needing hypnotized or higher test levels to do some of these things ....kinda sucks...for me.


I have one of those threads too SA...the "Do you tell your husband he's sexy?" one, so I can certainly relate to how you feel.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> I have one of those threads too SA...the "Do you tell your husband he's sexy?" one, so I can certainly relate to how you feel.


We can't all measure up, can we ...IF he had this... he'd be Fvcking perfect.. but yeah....I long for a little more.... I guess it's normal.. I haven't caused a Bi*ch fight about it for a few months.. I need to restrain that.. 

Oh he puts up with me too.. so it's a fair exchange I guess..


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't like these threads....but that was a GREAT post DvlsAdvc8....how you explained that !
> 
> They just make me feel like my H can't measure up to something that other men seem to do easily... or my sexual expectations are too HIGH....
> 
> I think it would take his needing hypnotized or higher test levels to do some of these things ....kinda sucks...for me.


Print out what Devils wrote, hand it to your husband and say you want this asap. You and your husband have a great marriage and excellent communication. I am certain if he reads it in black and white, it will happen. Have him take two shots of liquid courage and go nuts.


----------



## heartsbeating

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't want to be gentle... I want to possess her. When changing positions I don't want to gently roll her or softly place her this way or that and caress... I want to use my strength and flip her over or move her like she weighs nothing, pin her arms and f*ck.


oh beHAVE!





You get a gold star.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Print out what Devils wrote, hand it to your husband and say you want this asap. You and your husband have a great marriage and excellent communication. I am certain if he reads it in black and white, it will happen. Have him take two shots of liquid courage and go nuts.


I was thinking of printing that out as I was reading it -but really .. I know how it will go.. been there, done that...going on 5 yrs now..... Took the time to do a spice jar .. after a near year of waiting for him to get rougher with me.. writing out what I wanted / ideas to run with.... Pin me down..throw me down in the bed.. overt initiating basically ....then I can take over (I don't mind)..... easy sh**...I really can't say he tried.. really TRIED...it's like there is a blocker in his head..

It's not that he doesn't want to.... it's NOT in his make up.. I'm asking him to do something he can not do.. he is not like these other men.. but on the other side of that, I love the way he is... if this came easy I bet he would struggle somewhere else I wanted. ..ya know. 

And when I get angry about it.. *it's hurtful to him*.. it IS the one and only thing we have NOT been able to resolve.. and yes, I am being *selfish* to push here.. 

Our sex life is very very good .. DO I need this.. NO! I do need his desire, I have that.. but I don't need "rough".. I've resolved it is a WANT....not a need.. I have "accepted" for the most part, then I start reading threads like this ...and feel a little jealous is all..

I'll print it out anyway, he knows how stubborn I am and I won't give up. He's Ok with that thankfully!..


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was thinking of printing that out as I was reading it -but really .. I know how it will go.. been there, done that...going on 5 yrs now..... Took the time to do a spice jar .. after a near year of waiting for him to get rougher with me.. writing out what I wanted / ideas to run with.... Pin me down..throw me down in the bed.. overt initiating basically ....then I can take over (I don't mind)..... easy sh**...I really can't say he tried.. really TRIED...it's like there is a blocker in his head..
> 
> It's not that he doesn't want to.... it's NOT in his make up.. I'm asking him to do something he can not do.. he is not like these other men.. but on the other side of that, I love the way he is... if this came easy I bet he would struggle somewhere else I wanted. ..ya know.
> 
> And when I get angry about it.. *it's hurtful to him*.. it IS the one and only thing we have NOT been able to resolve.. and yes, I am being *selfish* to push here..
> 
> Our sex life is very very good .. DO I need this.. NO! I do need his desire, I have that.. but I don't need "rough".. I've resolved it is a WANT....not a need.. I have "accepted" for the most part, then I start reading threads like this ...and feel a little jealous is all..
> 
> I'll print it out anyway, he knows how stubborn I am and I won't give up. He's Ok with that thankfully!..


It doesn't have to be all in though. Could he start with a smack on your butt? Or talking dirty? Just throwing out ideas here. I think it would be very difficult from him to flip the switch sort of speak but maybe a slow ease in to it?


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> And when I get angry about it.. *it's hurtful to him*.. it IS the one and only thing we have NOT been able to resolve.. and yes, I am being *selfish* to push here..
> 
> Our sex life is very very good .. DO I need this.. NO! I do need his desire, I have that.. but I don't need "rough".. I've resolved it is a WANT....not a need.. I have "accepted" for the most part, then I start reading threads like this ...and feel a little jealous is all..
> 
> I'll print it out anyway, he knows how stubborn I am and I won't give up. He's Ok with that thankfully!..


Respectfully, I disagree with the idea of printing it out and showing him. 

If I were to put myself in your husband's shoes: I'll imagine if Batman brought me something a woman had written on a forum and told me he wanted me to do this, be this way... well, I can tell you, my defenses would likely go up and it wouldn't have me feeling very open to it. It has the potential to feel like a criticism and a comparison to another woman's style. You know your husband better than me but wanted to share my perspective.

What would make him feel more comfortable and open?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Has there ever been a thread on how women get their men to do this for them? I mean, the kind of stuff devil's is writing.

My first wife had a way of getting me all riled up. I have a hard time explaining it. I was sort of angry, but not angry, just I'm going to take what I want kind of determination angry. I never had that to my memory with second wife. 

I really think first wife had my number on that. Wish I could explain it. I've tried before by saying she teased me and sort of backed off. I got a lot of flack about that. It was something she did that sort of teased and...I can't explain it. 

Maybe I should call her and ask? ahahahahaha JK about the call


----------



## WyshIknew

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't like these threads....but that was a GREAT post DvlsAdvc8....how you explained that !
> 
> They just make me feel like my H can't measure up to something that other men seem to do easily... or my sexual expectations are too HIGH....
> 
> I think it would take his needing hypnotized or higher test levels to do some of these things ....kinda sucks...for me.


I think sometimes, some of us guys are just too 'nice'.

And no, I don't mean the archetypical PA niceguy.

It was something I didn't realise was a part of lovemaking, I thought it was all smoochy smoochy kissy kissy. I had to learn to be more aggressive in bed. I even got told off for apologising if she said "ow"

I think for many men there is this weird dichotomy going on.

On the one hand you have your wife, the woman you love, cherish and adore. Somebody you would lay your life down for.

And yet you have to realise that this is (or can be) also a highly sexual animal, somebody who wants to be desired, wanted, somebody who can still make her husband just lose a little bit of control.
I know I've mentioned it before but the morning after I've given Mrs Wysh a damn good 'seeing to' I often say something like "sorry babes, you just turned me on so much last night, made me so damn randy I couldn't help myself." And I swear blind she walks an inch taller.

TMI, but we are away for a short break, staying in a haunted hotel, and tonight, half way through a bit of rumpy pumpy Mrs Wysh called out, "OMG, OMG we're going to break the bed."
I pity the poor people in the next room.


----------



## ocotillo

SimplyAmorous said:


> Pin me down..throw me down in the bed.. overt initiating basically


SA, did you and your husband ever at any point do any sort of "Mock combat" even in a nonsexual context? (And by that I mean anything from a squirt gun fight to him trying to pry a piece of candy out of your hand.)

If it's "Playful" is it still distasteful for him?


----------



## heartsbeating

WyshIknew said:


> a bit of rumpy pumpy


You're awesome lol.


----------



## HappyGilmore

heartsbeating said:


> You're awesome lol.


Yeah, that had me cracking up too. :rofl:


----------



## heartsbeating

2ntnuf said:


> Has there ever been a thread on how women get their men to do this for them? I mean, the kind of stuff devil's is writing.


My husband and I used to have all-night foreplay sessions. Now we're old and need sleep, haha. But .....we'd play with blindfolds, tying each other up, role-playing and such. That's how things started for us. We learned one another. 

In recent times, we pushed some of our boundaries and it was fun. For our relationship and where we were though, that only started occurring once we had a better connection outside the bedroom again, with renewed vulnerability and trust between us.


----------



## 2ntnuf

heartsbeating, a lot of the stuff for us happened outside of the bedroom. I can remember grabbing her hand and just sort of pulling her up the stairs. I didn't say a word and she just smiled cause she knew what was coming. ha! "You're gonna get what's coming to you." hahaha


----------



## heartsbeating

2ntnuf said:


> heartsbeating, a lot of the stuff for us happened outside of the bedroom. I can remember grabbing her hand and just sort of pulling her up the stairs. I didn't say a word and she just smiled cause she knew what was coming. ha! "You're gonna get what's coming to you." hahaha


That's a good point. Let me get my mind out of the bedroom haha. My husband does this too. He'll assertively and randomly pull me tight and kiss me - could just be when we're out for a walk. If my hair is tied up, he may use my pony tail to pull my head back slowly and then kisses me. That kind of thing. I will also tell him to 'come get me' and be playful.


----------



## Haiku

FalconKing said:


> ...I have seen a lot of women talk about how hot it is to be dominated and wish their husbands/ lovers would do it. ... So what is the arousal of a man just having his way with them in a moment of intimacy? ... I'm just trying to logically understand this.


It might have something to do with the difficulty of disentangling 200,000 years of human biology. :awink:


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Therealbrighteyes said:


> *It doesn't have to be all in though. Could he start with a smack on your butt? Or talking dirty? Just throwing out ideas here. I think it would be very difficult from him to flip the switch sort of speak but maybe a slow ease in to it?*


He would never smack me unless I told him to do it and in an earlier post here, I mentioned this...it ends up more amusing, he's too soft - I say "Harder Harder baby, whip me!"... I've even told him /ordered him to SPANK ME when I get out of hand -on this.. (which I have) and he still never did it ! Then I'd argue with him about that !! 

Talking dirty is not something that flows out of him either... I really think had he had more of THIS going on in our past, we would have had more sex..it would have lit the fires -ya know. 

... I can flirt it up really heavy... and he'll respond... but again.. it's more ME who brings this on...he expresses himself more in touch.. that's his way.... oh he'll surprise me now & again.. and I REALLY let him know how I loved it/ what it did for me (encouragement !).... so he'll keep on.. but I can't say this leads to a noticeable UP in such things......and do you know how pathetic it sounds to be telling your Husband to JUMP you and ravish you.. Then I start to feel like an a$$. 



> *Heartsbeating said*: *Respectfully, I disagree with the idea of printing it out and showing him.*
> 
> If I were to put myself in your husband's shoes: I'll imagine if Batman brought me something a woman had written on a forum and told me he wanted me to do this, be this way... well, I can tell you, my defenses would likely go up and it wouldn't have me feeling very open to it. It has the potential to feel like a criticism and a comparison to another woman's style. You know your husband better than me but wanted to share my perspective.
> 
> What would make him feel more comfortable and open?


 I already told him about this thread.. and mentioned







's post.. then told him about YOUR POST.... you know what he said to me in regards to this... "you have to share it with me , that's the meaning of our lives, we have to talk about things"... I said "I don't want to hurt you"...and he said " and I want to make your life wonderful"..

I can't tell you how much I appreciate his attitude.. He is patient with me, understands my NEED to talk about what is important to me..(even if he doesn't understand it fully)..... and although patience is not exactly my strong point.. his way of dealing with me, even in this rather ridiculous struggle.. I really couldn't ask for more, could I ?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ocotillo said:


> SA, did you and your husband ever at any point do any sort of "Mock combat" even in a nonsexual context? (And by that I mean anything from a squirt gun fight to him trying to pry a piece of candy out of your hand.)
> 
> If it's "Playful" is it still distasteful for him?


I just read him your post....He said taking candy out of my hand would be like taking food from a bear (Chocolate anyway).. I think we should have had MORE of these exchanges in our marriage and I can't specifically point to one in the moment but he says we've done things LIKE THIS.... he teases me -irritates me -the taking of SOMETHING physical .. I can't pin point though....it's more to get a reaction with my MOUTH.. I can be rather amusing when I am starting to get ticked off.. -this leads to a lot of fun "bantering". 

We both feel what you said here is a VERY GOOD illustration to leading to these things, that erotic PLAYFULNESS that we all want..

I've complained he has NEVER tried to wrestle me (even lightly) to the ground , where we'd end up laughing -leading to a "taking"...things like that....it's something I think would be a hell of a lot of fun!!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SimplyAmorous said:


> He would never smack me unless I told him to do it and in an earlier post here, I mentioned this...it ends up more amusing, he's too soft - I say "Harder Harder baby, whip me!"... I've even told him /ordered him to SPANK ME when I get out of hand -on this.. (which I have) and he still never did it ! Then I'd argue with him about that !!
> 
> Talking dirty is not something that flows out of him either... I really think had he had more of THIS going on in our past, we would have had more sex..it would have lit the fires -ya know.
> 
> ... I can flirt it up really heavy... and he'll respond... but again.. it's more ME who brings this on...he expresses himself more in touch.. that's his way.... oh he'll surprise me now & again.. and I REALLY let him know how I loved it/ what it did for me (encouragement !).... so he'll keep on.. but I can't say this leads to a noticeable UP in such things......and do you know how pathetic it sounds to be telling your Husband to JUMP you and ravish you.. Then I start to feel like an a$$.
> 
> I already told him about this thread.. and mentioned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 's post.. then told him about YOUR POST.... you know what he said to me in regards to this... "you have to share it with me , that's the meaning of our lives, we have to talk about things"... I said "I don't want to hurt you"...and he said " and I want to make your life wonderful"..
> 
> I can't tell you how much I appreciate his attitude.. He is patient with me, understands my NEED to talk about what is important to me..(even if he doesn't understand it fully)..... and although patience is not exactly my strong point.. his way of dealing with me, even in this rather ridiculous struggle.. I really couldn't ask for more, could I ?


You know what, he is trying and that's awesome. He seems willing to do different things too so clearly he is listening to your needs and desires. Hey, that's really, really cool.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WyshIknew said:


> *I think sometimes, some of us guys are just too 'nice'.
> 
> And no, I don't mean the archetypical PA niceguy.
> 
> It was something I didn't realise was a part of lovemaking, I thought it was all smoochy smoochy kissy kissy. I had to learn to be more aggressive in bed. I even got told off for apologising if she said "ow"
> 
> I think for many men there is this weird dichotomy going on.
> 
> On the one hand you have your wife, the woman you love, cherish and adore. Somebody you would lay your life down for*.


 He would greatly relate to all of this.. as you know..



> *And yet you have to realise that this is (or can be) also a highly sexual animal, somebody who wants to be desired, wanted, somebody who can still make her husband just lose a little bit of control*.


 See this is the PART that really bugs me.... I can't get this man to LOOSE CONTROL...for an orgasm sure.. but in the fantasy sense - of him begging me for something. .. Hell no!... not going to happen...If I am not careful I will start to take that as a slight against who I am.. but in reality I think I am very skilled and could probably tease the hell out of someone else... it's just HIM.. that's how he is.. 

Now the fact I drain him daily is part of this.. but damn it, what do I have to do , starve him a week... He's never been an "animal".... even in his early years.. it's not like at age 50, as his Testosterone is slowly waning this is going to happen.. I gotta be realistic...



> *I know I've mentioned it before but the morning after I've given Mrs Wysh a damn good 'seeing to' I often say something like "sorry babes, you just turned me on so much last night, made me so damn randy I couldn't help myself." And I swear blind she walks an inch taller.*


 Oh he talks to me like this.. there is one thing he always says while we're doing it -that makes me feel on the mountain top..( I guess I'll keep some things to myself).. I do feel deeply desired.. 



> *TMI, but we are away for a short break, staying in a haunted hotel, and tonight, half way through a bit of rumpy pumpy Mrs Wysh called out, "OMG, OMG we're going to break the bed."
> I pity the poor people in the next room*.


 What a FUN vacation that sounds like ! Here's to you both ...


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> I already told him about this thread.. and mentioned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 's post.. then told him about YOUR POST.... you know what he said to me in regards to this... "you have to share it with me , that's the meaning of our lives, we have to talk about things"... I said "I don't want to hurt you"...and he said " and I want to make your life wonderful"..
> 
> I can't tell you how much I appreciate his attitude.. He is patient with me, understands my NEED to talk about what is important to me..(even if he doesn't understand it fully)..... and although patience is not exactly my strong point.. his way of dealing with me, even in this rather ridiculous struggle.. I really couldn't ask for more, could I ?


This is awesome. I wouldn't suggest not talking about it but I'm pleased that he was able to accept this approach from a loving place.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I guess my contribution to this thread is.. I really don't believe ALL men can BE this or DO this...to the heights of what his woman may want.. and it could be a contention for them.. It is our biggest (only in the last 5 yrs, as before this I never gave it a thought..I was blissfully fulfilled with my "slow hand/ easy touch" sensual love making husband).... See what mid life hormones can do to a woman!!... Gentleman beware!



SpinDaddy said:


> Thanks Coffee. I had the good fortune to marry one of “those” women. We are about as “plain vanilla”/un-kinky as they come and I’m no woosie either.
> 
> * In my mind, it isn’t about “dominant/submissive” but in giving you partner pleasure. I feel more “in charge” of our activities because her “dominance” lets me wholly focus on giving her pleasure. Ultimately that is most empowering because, in reality, I am the one who drives the sexual encounter.
> 
> IDK – do women in "traditional" roles feel that way?*


 My husband would agree with what you said HERE.. it's about mutual pleasure to him..... though he's also told me my pleasure means more to him over his own...this seems to be ingrained in him.... he used to drive the sexual encounters more so, then it was me.. now it's pretty mutual.. kinda "a given"..



COguy said:


> Since my split with the ex I've started to become more aggressive and dominant in the bedroom.
> 
> *I like it, the only hangup I have in the back of my mind is that the sex can't be as pleasurable for the woman when I act like this.*
> 
> *If I make it all about me I would just jack hammer her from missionary and the whole thing would be over in about 2 minutes.*
> 
> *For the women that like to be dominated, would you rather he get super aggressive and come really fast or not 100% take over so you can actually get off the way you want? What's more important, him dominating or you getting your O?*


 Reading THIS SIDE OF IT.. a light bulb is coming on..making me feel a little better.. thank you COguy!. 

*I CARE ABOUT MY "O" - I want it every single time.*. so the fact I married a Pleaser is probably a blessing !! ... in the past, when he'd slip before me, I'd (lightly) pound on him and say "NO, NO.. I wanted that !!!".. and I'd tell him he had to do that again.... Back then, he could ...not that he minded... Today...well.. not so much. He is a master at holding out for me.. this does keep me very very very happy. 




> *EnjoliWoman said*: *I dated Mr. Sensual and it was great and sweet and certainly lots of time to build and orgasm. But it would have been nice if just once he had switched gears, grabbed my wrists and pinned them over my head and gone for it.*


 See, I'd only want him to GO FOR IT -if I was getting mine too.. so does this mean for those men who REALLY take control.. somehow they are less concerned about her pleasure .. is this the dividing factor- what makes whomever Dominant in bed - seeking foremost their own pleasure FIRST??

I never thought about it before -till now..It's true with us.. I'll be the one suggesting we do this or that.. so I get the highest thrill out of it.. as he is right there ready to explode with me.. doesn't matter the position..



GettingIt said:


> I crave domination from my husband in and out of the bedroom. It's definitely a crucial aspect to my substantial kink.
> 
> Why it turns me on is complicated, but I don't think I'd be able to enjoy the full range of this kink with someone I did not trust implicitly. For that reason, I would not be seeking out this sort of sexual encounter with a new partner.
> 
> However, there are ways in which I'd find dominance from a new partner attractive. * For example, I'd like the feeling from him that he was just dying to ravish me but was holding back our of respect for not knowing me well. He's got pent up passion, but he's a gentleman.* I wouldn't want a partner who was only trying to please me, however; I'd want it to be plain that he was having a good time, too. Also, a man who knows his way around a woman's anatomy and demonstrates that her pleasure gives him pleasure: hot.
> 
> *It does come down to confidence, I think. It's okay to show what you like and how you like it without being tentative and questioning, but it's also crucial to demonstrate awareness and concern for her pleasure and comfort, too. I know: a true balancing act*.
> 
> All bets are off in my marriage, though. We use a safe word, *and I like it best when he pushes the boundaries with dominance, aggression and roughness--both physically and mentally. The rush of adrenaline added to the sexual pleasure is out of this world, and afterwards when those endorphins kick in . . . yeah, I'm a junkie*.


Your posts are so fascinating to read.. Love this... sounds HOT !....though if I felt this strongly, I'd have to leave my husband...we'd never work. 

I feel my being so sensually romantic on the one hand...even though I have some Dominatrix tendencies on the other...... saves me...or I should say.. saves US..


----------



## always_alone

heartsbeating said:


> If I were to put myself in your husband's shoes: I'll imagine if Batman brought me something a woman had written on a forum and told me he wanted me to do this, be this way... well, I can tell you, my defenses would likely go up and it wouldn't have me feeling very open to it. It has the potential to feel like a criticism and a comparison to another woman's style.


I agree! If my h told me he wanted me to be more like another woman, I would have to tell him that it's time to leave and go get that woman he really wants.

And I'm quite sure he would respond the same way if I were to hold out another guy as a role model for him. 

Not really fair to expect someone to be different than they are. Yes, we all grow and change, and there is room for compromise, but it has to be in ways that make both partners happy.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good afternoon SimplyAmorous
Do you really want him to lose control, or do you want him do do the things you like while appearing to lose control? (hmm, that sounded rude - I'm not intending it that way, but as a real question ).

My wife likes me to "lose control"... but not really. She wants me to still do the set of things that she enjoys, and be ready to stop if I hurt her. So I sort-of lose control, but always need to keep part of my mind separate and aware of what she enjoys.

If you enjoy EVERYTHING your partner might want, then having them lose control could be great. Many times though people don't want to do anything their partners want and that means that some control needs to be maintained. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> He would greatly relate to all of this.. as you know..
> 
> See this is the PART that really bugs me.... I can't get this man to LOOSE CONTROL...for an orgasm sure.. but in the fantasy sense - of him begging me for something. .. Hell no!... not going to happen...If I am not careful I will start to take that as a slight against who I am.. but in reality I think I am very skilled and could probably tease the hell out of someone else... it's just HIM.. that's how he is..
> 
> Now the fact I drain him daily is part of this.. but damn it, what do I have to do , starve him a week... He's never been an "animal".... even in his early years.. it's not like at age 50, as his Testosterone is slowly waning this is going to happen.. I gotta be realistic...
> 
> Oh he talks to me like this.. there is one thing he always says while we're doing it -that makes me feel on the mountain top..( I guess I'll keep some things to myself).. I do feel deeply desired..
> 
> What a FUN vacation that sounds like ! Here's to you both ...


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Not to speak for all men, but I think most of us suck at nuance. We can't see subtle cues. As the joke goes: You say kinky - thinking of using a feather, we think you want the whole chicken and some ball-gags. We don't really get how women go from "I want sweet, nice and affectionate" (which we are told directly) to "take me rough and own me like I'm irresistible to you" (which we generally hear from/of other women, not the one we're with; we're also kinda persuaded against it by all the equality/PC talk... some of us make a weird association there).

The message we hear most often is the nice one: women want sweet and sensual. Its right in line with the cultural thinking that women wanting soft and fluffy love and not rough dirty sex (and all the attendant names and stigmas that go with it). Or even deeper, the bogus notion that women don't really want sex. I think many women tend to make a pivot once they've sort of totally accepted and trust you; "love is established, now show me insatiable desire... take me like you can't control yourself." Maybe even its just taboo or scary for some women to express that they enjoy/want rough/physical sex... like a "bad girl" thing - and this is why we (or I) rarely hear it except second hand, veiled in humor or via anonymous forums like this. For some women, rough sex is like sexual fantasy, and honestly... I've just haven't known many women who are forthcoming with their sexual fantasies.

Some men have trouble making the pivot. They stick to "this is what got me here". I think it has to do with not understanding that to her, the lovey feelings are established... you're already trusted... so you can let go; be uninhibited. Getting really physical isn't showing less regard for her, but showing that you still have tremendous unrestrained sexual desire for her - the care/regard is to her, a given. Just as she trusts that he's still the caring/loving guy, he has to trust that she's ok with him letting his physical side out... and not going to think ill of him for doing so.

Sometimes I also wonder if there's a correlation between lower sense of trust and willingness to be uninhibited, and people who prefer sensual sex. But I wonder a lot of weird things... maybe there's nothing to it.


----------



## TiggyBlue

richardsharpe said:


> Do you really want him to lose control, or do you want him do do the things you like while appearing to lose control? (hmm, that sounded rude - I'm not intending it that way, but as a real question ).
> 
> My wife likes me to "lose control"... but not really. She wants me to still do the set of things that she enjoys, and be ready to stop if I hurt her. So I sort-of lose control, but always need to keep part of my mind separate and aware of what she enjoys.
> 
> If you enjoy EVERYTHING your partner might want, then having them lose control could be great. Many times though people don't want to do anything their partners want and that means that some control needs to be maintained.


Very true,
If 'losing control' entailed anal sex without lube it would probably lose it's appeal to quite a few.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

TiggyBlue said:


> Very true,
> If 'losing control' entailed anal sex without lube it would probably lose it's appeal to quite a few.


:rofl:


----------



## always_alone

TiggyBlue said:


> Very true,
> If 'losing control' entailed anal sex without lube it would probably lose it's appeal to quite a few.


Indeed. My bet is that for many women, having him "in control" should never be at the cost of her pleasure and orgasm, but in service to it. 

I may be off base on this, but I get the impression that it's not so much about wanting him to lose control, but to actually have the space and freedom to lose control themselves. Some women would need more extreme stimulus to achieve this than others.


----------



## ocotillo

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ....we're also kinda persuaded against it by all the equality/PC talk... some of us make a weird association there).


Associations...

_Georgie Porgie, Puddin' and Pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry,
When the boys came out to play
 Georgie Porgie ran away._

(Probably a reference to George Villiers, but that's not how people read it today..)

In grade school there was always one or two little jackasses who seemed to enjoy bending a little girl's fingers backwards until she cried, but would turn tail and run when one of the boys told him to stop.

This stereotype is sprinkled here and there throughout pop culture. You see it for example, in the movie _Secretary_, where E.E. Grey (James Spader) derives a sexual pleasure (Actually pops right there in his pants...) from dominating and spanking a timid, mentally screwed up woman, but hides and cowers in the closet when his not-so-timid ex-wife comes stomping into the office to confront him. 

I appreciated the, "Physical" vs. "Rough" distinction you drew on this thread. To read fiction aimed at women and to hear women explain why they like it can be confusing sometimes.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening always_alone
This sort of losing control is still possible but it needs good communication first about what she enjoys. Of course it isn't a real loss of control or he would be doing what HE wanted.

I think you are right that part of it is about the woman losing control. 

Communication is absolutely key. Unless is is discussed, there is no way he can know that you want to be thrown on the bed and spanked, but not called dirty names. That you want sudden rough sex, but need him to use lube. That you want him to force you to give him head - but not finish that way. That you want to be restrained for anal - but want him to go very slowly. That you want to struggle and tell him to stop - but that he needs to know when you *really* want him to stop. 

Or that by "rough" sex you just mean vigorous intercourse. 

Any of these are fine, but guesswork is difficult and I think many men are worried about guessing wrong and abusing the woman that they love. (I am). 


This is the most frustrating part of my sex life - my wife simply can't bring herself to tell me what she wants, so I have to guess, and sometimes I guess incorrectly.



always_alone said:


> Indeed. My bet is that for many women, having him "in control" should never be at the cost of her pleasure and orgasm, but in service to it.
> 
> I may be off base on this, but I get the impression that it's not so much about wanting him to lose control, but to actually have the space and freedom to lose control themselves. Some women would need more extreme stimulus to achieve this than others.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon SimplyAmorous
> *Do you really want him to lose control, or do you want him do do the things you like while appearing to lose control? (hmm, that sounded rude - I'm not intending it that way, but as a real question* ).


 I don't see anything rude about what you said.. :scratchhead: - the appearance I suppose.. He is not going to loose control.. I know him...I don't think he's capable of hurting me - so any amount of aggressive would be ...well.. EXCITING.. 



> *My wife likes me to "lose control"... but not really. She wants me to still do the set of things that she enjoys, and be ready to stop if I hurt her. So I sort-of lose control, but always need to keep part of my mind separate and aware of what she enjoys*.


 Yes, this sounds very good.. I was explaining to him just a little earlier that really all I want is some more intense aggressive type initiating.. he's never been one to grab me and carry me upstairs or corner me pushing me against the wall, reaching for me like he had to have me NOW.. ... I have never experienced this sort of thing... though I've done it to HIM plenty of times.. so WTF ... (No, I am not mad here but if anyone thinks I am whining .. well I guess I don't particularly care for that .. as they enjoy the same darn thing..the vast majority of women do, don't they??)

His response to me was one of confidence today.. saying he can do that...it was a good exchange.. we were both smiling...

Screw me (Yeah I mean that).. I just want to feel a more intensified WANT ...through his manly actions...that is passion to me... Frankly..after that... I'd be happy to take over ...I enjoy it !!..... I'd not a wet blanket by any means, I'll give even more than he does.. 

I have no complaints about how he Drives me -if you know what I mean.. I still want my orgasm [email protected]# Especially today -those are golden I don't want to miss a drop. 



> *If you enjoy EVERYTHING your partner might want, then having them lose control could be great. Many times though people don't want to do anything their partners want and that means that some control needs to be maintained*.


 YES, I enjoy EVERYTHING HE WANTS.. it has been ME who suggested other positions, even doggy - this man could go to his grave with 2 positions and giving me oral and he as happy as sin.. there is a poster by the name of Mr Vanilla here.. my H is not this bad- at least he loves sex & never gets bored, but the same 'ol routine to him is fine.. I have complained he is too easy to please. 



> *DvlsAdvc8 said:* The message we hear most often is the nice one: women want sweet and sensual. Its right in line with the cultural thinking that women wanting soft and fluffy love and not rough dirty sex (and all the attendant names and stigmas that go with it). Or even deeper, the bogus notion that women don't really want sex. I think many women tend to make a pivot once they've sort of totally accepted and trust you; "love is established, now show me insatiable desire... take me like you can't control yourself." Maybe even its just taboo or scary for some women to express that they enjoy/want rough/physical sex... like a "bad girl" thing - and this is why we (or I) rarely hear it except second hand, veiled in humor or via anonymous forums like this. For some women, rough sex is like sexual fantasy, and honestly... I've just haven't known many women who are forthcoming with their sexual fantasies.
> 
> Some men have trouble making the pivot. They stick to "this is what got me here". I think it has to do with not understanding that to her, the lovey feelings are established... you're already trusted... so you can let go; be uninhibited. Getting really physical isn't showing less regard for her, but showing that you still have tremendous unrestrained sexual desire for her - the care/regard is to her, a given. Just as she trusts that he's still the caring/loving guy, he has to trust that she's ok with him letting his physical side out... and not going to think ill of him for doing so.
> 
> Sometimes I also wonder if there's a correlation between lower sense of trust and willingness to be uninhibited, and people who prefer sensual sex. But I wonder a lot of weird things... maybe there's nothing to it.


 I have talked about this so much on here.. the disconnect for me is this... so why can I do these things after years of conditioning.. I've always being that sensual lover myself .....but he can't... my answer lies in *our temperaments*, so I feel..... and *our fantasies*.. 

I always had Rape fantasies (awakening by those steamy romances).... even if I wasn't ravished LIKE THAT so much -with that sort of intensity -aggression... . but him.. we talked about fantasies one day.. he understands the man needs to pursue , especially being a more older fashioned type guy.. (older fashioned girls are not supposed to come on to men- right!).... *but in his fantasy world.. the women are coming on TO HIM*.. that's his glory.. I kinda laughed when he told me this. I couldn't get anything else out of him ....and I just told me he married the right chick then.. unfortunately I wasn't as in touch with this side of myself back then... 

I really don't believe there is anything to UNLOCK in him, as I think so many feel.. I just don't see that, I know him better than anyone on this earth.. and he also likes himself the way he is.. if this makes him defective somehow.. I am not sure what to do with that...or how to feel on it.. 

It would be more of his just trying to BE something I would enjoy.. in it's own way, this is  for me and will remain so.. I just have to remind myself I have his desire and his deepest love - so I need to shut up.. and stop reading triggering threads like this one.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

SA, I'd say if that's your only complaint you're well ahead of the game. Isn't this the saying: We like people for their good qualities, and love them for their faults.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good Evening SimplyAmorous
Have you talked with him specifically about role playing? That you'd like him to "rape" you. That would be willing to play the woman who desperately wants him - or whatever his fantasy is?

Not every lovemaking session needs to be mutual. Its fine to act out one person or the other fantasies as long as they both get their turns.

Maybe you can start by trying to be exactly what he wants some evening, then as him to reciprocate the next time.


The problem I have is lack of communication. Almost all my wife will ever say is "you know what I like". Yet at other times she will tease with "good thing you can't read minds". I strongly suspect there is something she would enjoy that she isn't telling me. I'd love to know but can't get her to talk.


----------



## over20

Richard, do you think what your wife wants to share is waaayy to kinky and she thinks you will be shocked? Would you be able to share something about your fantasy life that may allow her to open up knowing that you also have strong likes? :scratchhead:


----------



## 2ntnuf

committed4ever said:


> When I first brought this up to my H, it was like a nuclear bomb. He thought I wanted full scale BDSM, and he wanted no part of that. I had a hard time expressing what I wanted, partially because I was not sure myself. TBH my H has had his freaky/kinky sex life before me. And he is very take charge in and out of the bedroom. I have been the one bringing up the kink. He is a happy man but there is a limit to how far he wants to go which I am ok with.


Not sure what you mean, either. I've never wanted full scale BDSM, either. I'm not into giving or receiving pain. It ruins my mood for sex. On the other hand, there is an aggressiveness that seems to be what many women are looking for from their husband. I didn't really have that with x2, but I did with x1. I think x1 brought that out of me with her style of teasing and playfulness outside of the bedroom. I can't explain what it was she did. It's been too many years now to remember. Maybe it was just in the way I felt about her? I can't say for sure.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening over20
I don't know. I'm pretty open minded.  I've asked her for some things, but mostly have been turned down - which is OK, we still do other fun things. I have made it clear that I have fairly exotic fantasies, but she hasn't asked more.

Maybe she really doesn't have any exotic fantasies - but the "mind reading" comment hints otherwise. There are certainly things I wouldn't want to do in bed, but almost nothing that she could ask for that would offend me. I have lots of extremely objectionable fantasies. 

Maybe some day she will relax enough to tell me. 






over20 said:


> Richard, do you think what your wife wants to share is waaayy to kinky and she thinks you will be shocked? Would you be able to share something about your fantasy life that may allow her to open up knowing that you also have strong likes? :scratchhead:


----------



## SimplyAmorous

always_alone said:


> I agree! If my h told me he wanted me to be more like another woman, I would have to tell him that it's time to leave and go get that woman he really wants.
> 
> And I'm quite sure he would respond the same way if I were to hold out another guy as a role model for him.
> 
> Not really fair to expect someone to be different than they are. Yes, we all grow and change, and there is room for compromise, but it has to be in ways that make both partners happy.


I feel like this post is judging me to be an uncaring mean spirited wife..(it's just how I read it...not that you are -you are just speaking how YOU would feel personally)... 

I just read this to my H ...asked how he feels about what you said.... he liked the last part.. and I gave a real dig on how according to you.. He ought to tell me to go find someone else...and basically Fvck off..... I got a little heated - and ya know what.. he told me I was funny as hell when I get pissed off, he's laughing...pulled me back on top of himself (he was sitting behind me ) and he was getting a little aggressive.. lifting up my shirt...grabbing my boobs...







...Now that was a lot of FUN !!....both of us laughing out loud... I think he passed the sh** test today.

Believe me, he knows HOW MUCH I ONLY WANT HIM.. so really.. although he'd like me to not be such a wild woman in what I crave I suppose on the one hand... on the other he wouldn't change it either, it has it's obvious benefits.. (I relate far more to men on this.. I'm like richardsharpe here, the one with MORE fantasies)..

You know what he said to me.. making fun... that I have no one to compare to him anyway, laughing about that... Good for him!.... I just really appreciate he doesn't see me in this light....HE doesn't make me feel bad about myself . 

He did say.. he could understand how you would feel this way though..of course... it's not that I want MORE that bothers him... he's always game to sit down with me and go through an article.. read a post... the "Just Fvck me" book... (not that we do it much...it's been months)...

But it's true, there have been times I pushed it too far - near blaming him for what I feel we missed...because he was lacking / not sexually creative/ too passive ...he had the higher drive , darn it! Why didn't he shake it up, come on to me like a freight train when he wanted it...thinking of how I am TODAY in comparison to how he was THEN...(*that's been my biggest comparison right there *-not even another man !)....

I've ran with these thoughts..and it has made him feel bad (in reality we are both to blame -just in different ways)...it's been forgiven, but you know how these things can "revisit" the emotions from time to time.....maybe the rest of you don't have that happen on an issue... but some of us do.. we all have our "Issue" whatever it may be. this just happens to be MINE.... 

When menopause hits my door... it's going to be all over, I am not going to give a damn.. so I feel our time is NOW.... it's precious and I want to experience all *WE* can....it's always been a "WE" with me.. this makes all the difference with my H... 



> *DvlsAdvc8 said*: *SA, I'd say if that's your only complaint you're well ahead of the game. Isn't this the saying: We like people for their good qualities, and love them for their faults*.


 I don't know that we love others for their faults so much... but when you're so emotionally wrapped into another... knowing we'd be LOST without them in our lives...somehow with this... comes the fine ability to make light/ joke/ even laugh at the smaller things that can not even be compared to what we share.... ya know.. regardless of these smaller bumps along the way...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

richardsharpe said:


> Good Evening SimplyAmorous
> *Have you talked with him specifically about role playing? That you'd like him to "rape" you. *That would be willing to play the woman who desperately wants him - or whatever his fantasy is?


 The word RAPE... he doesn't like it ...says ATTACK would be better...

He can not even watch a RAPE scene on TV.... I have to turn it...he said once watching that makes him want to kill someone... his aversion to men not treating women right is very HIGH.....he has no use for porn that demeans a woman in any way either...though he has joked I was raping him.. "RAPE ...RAPE"....go figure...

Role Play...we've rented some "how to" Porn videos talking about it... but can't say we have really TRIED to act anything out.. to be honest, I think it would put him under pressure...just asked, he admitted this but said we could try.



> *Maybe you can start by trying to be exactly what he wants some evening, then as him to reciprocate the next time*.


 It's like I say, he is EASY to please...and that is every night...there is absolutely nothing he is craving from my end...

Once playing a sex game the card I pulled asked for me to ask him...."*Describe your fantasies?*".. He says "I don't have any?"... I was like.. "you can do better than that!..have out with it".. he repeated that again.. I got a little annoyed, I wanted to hear some juicy stuff.. then he just said "you fulfill them all".. Ok Sweet.. but still I wanted more than that. ..I got a little more out of him..but still.. very tame. 

That's about how it goes.. now if he asked me mine....well...and I do openly share them with him.. many times after we have sex...laying in his arms in the afterglow or even before.... I will share where we were...all kinds of scenarios...and he likes that! I'm very open -he doesn't tire of this either...thankfully. 



> *The problem I have is lack of communication. Almost all my wife will ever say is "you know what I like". Yet at other times she will tease with "good thing you can't read minds". I strongly suspect there is something she would enjoy that she isn't telling me. I'd love to know but can't get her to talk*.


 I sympathize with you ....I'd find this very frustrating.. ..I really like the deep ...even need it...that unabashed sharing... and sex talk is just so much FUN... for us, there is no lack of communicating... just a difference in *libido styles* I guess... I'm the Erotic who craves more and takes it personal that he is so tame..(this is rather common-after reading about it)... and he is a Sensual / Reactive...

This book opened my eyes to our differences ...it helped me realize I didn't have to question his desire anymore ...it was a stepping stone for me 5 yrs ago.. 

When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life: Books

These are the 10 types... Sensual, Erotic, Compulsive, Dependent, Stressed, Disinterested, Detached, Addictive, Entitled, and Reactive. 

Here is a test -if you are interested ..for you & your wife....

Identifying Your Libido Type


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening simplyamorous
Maybe people with a wide range of...er..exotic fantasies can't (or don't want) to imagine that other people don't have them :scratchhead:


----------



## SimplyAmorous

richardsharpe said:


> *Good evening simplyamorous
> Maybe people with a wide range of...er..exotic fantasies can't (or don't want) to imagine that other people don't have them* :scratchhead:


I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU...it bugs me at times..that is just being honest... 

I think this could be compared to a woman wanting her husband to show more emotion, more romantic affection (now this is something I am not lacking in at all- which helps make up for the other)....

But many men are not naturally geared like this... LIKE HER ...and it plays on her.. it hurts her in some ways, because she doesn't feel *AS CONNECTED*- because of it. .. (in the erotic sense, it could be.. not feeling *AS WANTED*, as lustfully desired)

But on his end.... it's like "what is her problem.. this is how I am.. leave me alone".. we view the world through different lenses many times... Often women need to vent... we can be emotional... men so often are "FIXERS".. they don't want to hear all that, or even deal with it..... just fix and get back to business...

And somehow we try to find some sort of acceptance for these differences between us......but in the mean time.. we may kick a little, devise ways to get more of what we want...ya know...and some of us are more stubborn than others too.


----------



## ocotillo

SimplyAmorous said:


> We both feel what you said here is a VERY GOOD illustration to leading to these things, that erotic PLAYFULNESS that we all want..


This is just a random thought: It's easier to be physical with someone who provokes it.

You don't dare turn your back on my wife. Her sense of humor is pretty low and you'll get an ice-cube down the back or worse. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> ..he said once watching that makes him want to kill someone...


I admire his self control. He expresses it more nicely than I would.


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> But it's true, there have been times I pushed it too far - near blaming him for what I feel we missed...because he was lacking / not sexually creative/ too passive ...he had the higher drive , darn it! Why didn't he shake it up, come on to me like a freight train when he wanted it...thinking of how I am TODAY in comparison to how he was THEN...(*that's been my biggest comparison right there *-not even another man !)....
> 
> I've ran with these thoughts..and it has made him feel bad (in reality we are both to blame -just in different ways)...it's been forgiven, but you know how these things can "revisit" the emotions from time to time.....maybe the rest of you don't have that happen on an issue... but some of us do.. we all have our "Issue" whatever it may be. this just happens to be MINE....


SA, please know that I am not judging you. Anyone who has read any of your posts knows that you love your h to pieces, and are not even remotely mean-spirited.

I was merely referring to the suggestion that you print out some post to basically ask him, "why can't you be more like this other guy?" It strikes me as a move that is pretty much guaranteed to sting, no matter who you are.

You have an h who loves you so completely just exactly how you are. If he was pointing to another woman, and saying "why can't you be more like her?", wouldn't it make you feel a little bit like you're just not good enough?


----------



## Fozzy

Lila said:


> Falconking, I don't wish to derail your thread but I have a tangent question related to your OP. I didn't know whether to start a new thread as this might be a non-starter question. Anyways....
> 
> I'm one of the only women who has little to no interest in rough sex and have always felt I was odd, for lack of a better word. I've asked DH if he craves rougher sex, and he's mentioned having to hold himself back a few times from pulling my hair, spanking my butt, or "pounding me into the headboard".
> 
> So my question is to the men and women who have replied to this thread, do men need to have rough sex to feel "manly"? Is it a turn off when the woman is not into that?


Doesn't really do anything for me. I don't have an aversion to it, mind you, but I really don't have enough trust for my wife sexually to want to even go there.


----------



## Fozzy

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening simplyamorous
> Maybe people with a wide range of...er..exotic fantasies can't (or don't want) to imagine that other people don't have them :scratchhead:


I think this is a very cogent point.


----------



## Personal

ocotillo said:


> You don't dare turn your back on my wife. Her sense of humor is pretty low and you'll get an ice-cube down the back or worse.


Within the first few days of dating my wife I was at her place having a warm shower during winter, when she thought it would be funny to throw a cup of cold water on me.

The next day I happily returned the favour with a bucket full of cold water. Over 18 years later we're still together and have never again thrown cold water on the other when in the shower.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ocotillo said:


> *This is just a random thought: It's easier to be physical with someone who provokes it*.


It takes 2 to tango --right !?











> *always_alone said*: *I was merely referring to the suggestion that you print out some post to basically ask him, "why can't you be more like this other guy?" It strikes me as a move that is pretty much guaranteed to sting, no matter who you are.*


 I wouldn't present it  like that.. but to read of stories , of situations of how this is played out.. heck yeah! I never did print that out mind you.... but chances are, I will go back there and we'll have a read, he even told me to... and really .... it's been good...since my 1st post here.. keeping an eye on this thread ...our conversations have went WELL.. very well....I've been encouraged.. He's all with me... I wish he'd post himself!..but I'm not going to push it.. if someone wants to ask him anything, he'll get on here .



> *You have an h who loves you so completely just exactly how you are. If he was pointing to another woman, and saying "why can't you be more like her?", wouldn't it make you feel a little bit like you're just not good enough?*


 Funny I had this same question presented to me in a pm earlier -just phrased a different way.. My answer.. I'd WANT TO KNOW.. I would NOT want him to stuff.. I don't believe in stuffing ....(he did some of this in the past to spare me...and all he did was hurt himself and stole something from us....never again!)...

I'm all for talking things out.. deeply.. the whole sorted thing... a little comparisons is not going to bother me.. I guess I am the type of person, you want to put me down...I'd swing back with a ...."OH yeah...let's get into this" ....I'm all ears...so I could see and understand just where I am missing it -in his eyes.. it's not about the other person.. (unless he's in love with her -that's another thing entirely...and that would be DEVASTATING... removing my foundation -*that's why it's so important to talk at the "seed stage" in all things*)...

Now here is where I want to challenge your thinking on this..

I am of the belief that WE should be able to discuss ANYTHING with our spouses.. (remember I am the 100% transparency woman on TAM)... I mean ANYTHING.. if our spouse is a reasonable human being...they feel loved by us (yes this aspect is very very important)...they know we aren't going anywhere & I guess enough confidence to understand we're not purposely trying to hurt them but speak of something that MEANS SOMETHING TO US.. why would they not want to hear it -if they care about us? 

And ....(and this is BIG)...depending on how we lay this out.. the look in our eyes, our body language, our attitude....well now there is what is going to STING , or open up an opportunity...something to work on together.. .

Have I stung in the past.. Yes I HAVE ! (and boy do I make it up to him -in tears at times...my resolving & redemption is very thorough -he would tell anyone) .. but I have also encouraged and praised this man to the high heavens on how thankful I am for what he brings.... isn't all of TAM rather sick of it...all my yakking....it's not like I leave the good out...and one thing he knows:

I don't BS.. I'm not a flatterer unless it's in the heart... he's told me many times over he'll take the good with the bad... because in this he knows the GOOD is genuine /heartfelt ... 

So it's all in the presentation... should I bring this up when I am PMSing.. Probably NOT.. this is when I have stung the most.. he'll call it "Shark week " ..and you know what...I'll just laugh right along with him.. he's right ! 

The day a couple can no longer bring an issue up -where one feels LOCKED OUT, or "what is the use?".. basically loosing faith in their spouse....is the day a seed of resentment is going to spring....doesn't matter the issue (we all have something, don't we?)... 

We don't want this in our marriage.. that's like a cancer. 

Does this make sense?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

kilgore-ish said:


> i agree. full transparency is best. while, we definitely don't always get there, it should be the goal. though, there is plenty we don't know about each other. i guess that is what years are for.


I see you are new Kilgore-ish.. if you have an interest in Transparency.. please click on this thread :

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...parency-what-means-our-marraige-what-you.html

I tried to explain just how this works... and also how we can DESTROY IT...as so often happens in marriages...

It's something a couple gives to each other..*willingly*...it can't be forced or demanded.. or it would fall apart, loosing it's value....


----------



## Holland

Fozzy said:


> Doesn't really do anything for me. I don't have an aversion to it, mind you, but I really don't have enough trust for my wife sexually to want to even go there.


Trust is the key for me. 

I love having my hair pulled, arse smacked, being lightly bitten, tied up, teased. But I have complete trust in my partner, he protects me, respects me and I know he would not hurt me either physically or emotionally. Trust gives me the freedom to let go which in turn results in some amazing experiences with him.

But I also like to dominate at times, give him a NSA BJ while fully clothed then get up and go on with my day feeling very powerful. He likes to be tied up and teased, it is such a win/win because it makes me feel soooo sexy to tease the life out of him, he wants to take over but he can't unless I release him.

For us it is about having such a huge desire for the other that we just have to have them, then and there with great enthusiasm. As a woman that came from a past sexless marriage I can't believe I have found such an amazing lover, rough, gentle, dominant, submissive, intuitive and as HB states, he has the all important quality of a great SOH thrown in as well.

Good to see you around FK


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> Now here is where I want to challenge your thinking on this..
> 
> I am of the belief that WE should be able to discuss ANYTHING with our spouses.. (remember I am the 100% transparency woman on TAM)... I mean ANYTHING.. if our spouse is a reasonable human being...they feel loved by us (yes this aspect is very very important)...they know we aren't going anywhere & I guess enough confidence to understand we're not purposely trying to hurt them but speak of something that MEANS SOMETHING TO US.. why would they not want to hear it -if they care about us?


I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I very much admire the level of openness you have in your marriage and would love to build more transparency into mine. Trouble is, when I express how I really feel about things, he feels helpless, or worse, attacked, and is even less likely to be open with me. And when he tells me things, eg hos he wants to sleep with my best friend, or how tempted he was when approached at the bar, or whatever, my immediate reaction is to tell him that if that's what he wants, he should go for it. I will not be his ball and chain.

Needless to say, none of this is leading towards more transparency.


----------



## jld

always_alone said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I very much admire the level of openness you have in your marriage and would love to build more transparency into mine. Trouble is, when I express how I really feel about things, he feels helpless, or worse, attacked, and is even less likely to be open with me. And when he tells me things, eg hos he wants to sleep with my best friend, or how tempted he was when approached at the bar, or whatever, my immediate reaction is to tell him that if that's what he wants, he should go for it. I will not be his ball and chain.
> 
> Needless to say, none of this is leading towards more transparency.


Why do you want to be with him if this is how he reacts to your transparency, aa?


----------



## always_alone

jld said:


> Why do you want to be with him if this is how he reacts to your transparency, aa?


Why does he want to be with me, if that's how I react to his?

Vulnerability doesn't come naturally to either one of us, it would seem. But it doesn't mean that either one would have much more success if we were to try and start again with someone else.


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> *Why does he want to be with me, if that's how I react to his?*
> 
> Vulnerability doesn't come naturally to either one of us, it would seem. But it doesn't mean that either one would have much more success if we were to try and start again with someone else.


Not a question anyone can answer but him. Why did you sidestep jld's question? Answering her question with a question shifting the focus off of you and onto your husband...Or did you actually answer it...you want to be with him because you are too afraid to start over, to try with someone else? What about the possibility of finding a man who would actually challenge many of your beliefs about men, would you be able to handle that level of challenge, or is it just easier for you tolerate where you are right now?


----------



## Middle of Everything

Fozzy said:


> Doesn't really do anything for me. I don't have an aversion to it, mind you, but I really don't have enough trust for my wife sexually to want to even go there.


Dont trust her enough sexually to be rough? Im curious by what you mean here.


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> Not a question anyone can answer but him. Why did you sidestep jld's question? Answering her question with a question shifting the focus off of you and onto your husband...Or did you actually answer it...


I answered that way because I honestly don't understand why his reaction to my transparency is any more important or relevant then my reaction to his. Isn't transparency necessarily a two-way street?

And I'm also not sure what you're talking about with respect to my unwillingness to be challenged in my views about men. I know for a fact that men generally don't want to be in a relationship with me. It's not me who tells them this; it has been a lifetime of them telling me. 

So given that, am I supposed to ditch my current relationship because it isn't fully transparent for some vague hope that there exists another person in this world who will both like me *and* be more transparent? What are the odds? 

It's not like such complete transparency is the expected norm. Many, many people hold back for fear of judgement, shaming, rejection. Should they all too be out looking for someone else?


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> *I answered that way because I honestly don't understand why his reaction to my transparency is any more important or relevant then my reaction to his. Isn't transparency necessarily a two-way street?*
> 
> And I'm also not sure what you're talking about with respect to my unwillingness to be challenged in my views about men. I know for a fact that men generally don't want to be in a relationship with me. It's not me who tells them this; it has been a lifetime of them telling me.
> 
> So given that, am I supposed to ditch my current relationship because it isn't fully transparent for some vague hope that there exists another person in this world who will both like me *and* be more transparent? What are the odds?
> 
> It's not like such complete transparency is the expected norm. Many, many people hold back for fear of judgement, shaming, rejection. Should they all too be out looking for someone else?


Of course it's a two way street, but the question was directed towards you, you are the one here to answer, and you are the only one who can answer for yourself because you are the only one who can control your thoughts and actions, and you have no control over anyone elses, so in the context here, you are the only one who is relevant. When I see responses that boil down to "but, but...what about HIM?" it just drips with defensiveness, and that defensiveness really weakens a persons point that they are trying to get across. Your answer to that question is completely independent of him and his thoughts and feeling.

The thing about transparency or sometimes lack thereof, and it seems as if you are running into this...when having to hold things back from your partner, essentially convincing yourself that you have no choice but to deceive through omission, but when your feelings of having to hold back are also causing feelings that you, your needs, your wants, desires, satisfaction are of less importance than your partners, that is a huge problem.


----------



## Fozzy

Middle of Everything said:


> Dont trust her enough sexually to be rough? Im curious by what you mean here.


She doesn't desire anything "out of the norm", and even the norm is infrequent. Consequently, whenever I do attempt anything out of the norm the response is tepid and I end up feeling like crap afterward. I feel like she's judging me as a weirdo, basically.


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> Of course it's a two way street, but the question was directed towards you, you are the one here to answer, and you are the only one who can answer for yourself because you are the only one who can control your thoughts and actions, and you have no control over anyone elses, so in the context here, you are the only one who is relevant. When I see responses that boil down to "but, but...what about HIM?" it just drips with defensiveness, and that defensiveness really weakens a persons point that they are trying to get across. Your answer to that question is completely independent of him and his thoughts and feeling.


Okay, since it is all about me, let me answer as directly as I can: I stay with him because he is the first person I have known who genuinely appreciates me for who I am, and because I genuinely appreciate him for who he is. Further, while I admire the level of transparency and openness that SA has, it is not anything I ever expected or really thought about until fairly recently. I just know that we don't have it, and how he responds to my openness and how I respond to his.

In no way was I trying to deflect anything back on to him or be defensive. Just illustrating the obstacles. I am generally quite upfront about what I think and feel, and it often isn't received well. My SO is more likely to hide and rugsweep than I am, but I cannot claim to be any better than him when I hear things that hurt me deeply. 

Makes it difficult, then, for both of us to *want* to be open, because, well, maybe we just don't want to start a fight.

Apologies to OP for the hijack. I do recognize that none of this is supposed to be about me ...


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> *Okay, since it is all about me*, let me answer as directly as I can: I stay with him because he is the first person I have known who genuinely appreciates me for who I am, and because I genuinely appreciate him for who he is. Further, while I admire the level of transparency and openness that SA has, it is not anything I ever expected or really thought about until fairly recently. I just know that we don't have it, and how he responds to my openness and how I respond to his.
> 
> In no way was I trying to deflect anything back on to him or be defensive. Just illustrating the obstacles. I am generally quite upfront about what I think and feel, and it often isn't received well. My SO is more likely to hide and rugsweep than I am, but I cannot claim to be any better than him when I hear things that hurt me deeply.
> 
> Makes it difficult, then, for both of us to *want* to be open, because, well, maybe we just don't want to start a fight.
> 
> Apologies to OP for the hijack. *I do recognize that none of this is supposed to be about me ...*


*shakes head* Really?


----------



## treyvion

Fozzy said:


> She doesn't desire anything "out of the norm", and even the norm is infrequent. Consequently, whenever I do attempt anything out of the norm the response is tepid and I end up feeling like crap afterward. I feel like she's judging me as a weirdo, basically.


Did she also judge her ex's as weirdo's or this connotation was engraved and carved out for you only?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

always_alone said:


> Okay, since it is all about me, let me answer as directly as I can: I stay with him because he is the first person I have known who genuinely appreciates me for who I am, and because I genuinely appreciate him for who he is. Further, while I admire the level of transparency and openness that SA has, it is not anything I ever expected or really thought about until fairly recently. I just know that we don't have it, and how he responds to my openness and how I respond to his.
> 
> In no way was I trying to deflect anything back on to him or be defensive. Just illustrating the obstacles. I am generally quite upfront about what I think and feel, and it often isn't received well. My SO is more likely to hide and rugsweep than I am, but I cannot claim to be any better than him when I hear things that hurt me deeply.
> 
> Makes it difficult, then, for both of us to *want* to be open, because, well, maybe we just don't want to start a fight.
> 
> Apologies to OP for the hijack. I do recognize that none of this is supposed to be about me ...


May I ask you a candid question? When did you realize you wanted more transparency? Was it after reading about SA and her marriage?


----------



## jld

It is a lot easier to leave before marriage than after. If you cannot be mutually transparent, life together may be pretty tough.


----------



## omgitselaine

IMHO 

http://www.mojoimage.com/


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I'm inclined to think most marriages are not 100% transparent. I believe everyone has things they just don't say. Usually minor things - desires or interests that really aren't important - and not worth rocking the boat over.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I'm inclined to think most marriages are not 100% transparent. I believe everyone has things they just don't say. Usually minor things - desires or interests that really aren't important - and not worth rocking the boat over.


Totally agree. I once thought that transparency would improve our marriage and managed to get him to open up to me. Yowtch! I really don't need to know what he thinks about when he sees a hot chick or if he ever fantasies about ex-girlfriends. I was hurt yet I brought it entirely on myself. I got over it and nope, not ever again. Keep that sh!t to yourself and I'll do the same.


----------



## jld

I think transparency is what makes marriage deeply intimate. Sometimes it is hard to hear what my husband says, but I think I need to. I need to know him just as he is, not just how I think he is.


----------



## always_alone

Therealbrighteyes said:


> May I ask you a candid question? When did you realize you wanted more transparency? Was it after reading about SA and her marriage?


When I found out he'd been lying to me for 15 years about what he really thought and felt --and that this was in fact his go-to when he thought I might find something upsetting. Just pretend it's not there.

I thought, OMFG do I even know this person? And what else has he got that he thinks might make me unhappy?


----------



## always_alone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I'm inclined to think most marriages are not 100% transparent. I believe everyone has things they just don't say.


Agreed. Even in this thread alone, many have admitted to fantasies they don't dare share with their spouse.

I do wonder about who gets to define something as minor, though, and not worth "rocking the boat" over...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

always_alone said:


> When I found out he'd been lying to me for 15 years about what he really thought and felt --and that this was in fact his go-to when he thought I might find something upsetting.
> 
> I thought, OMFG do I even know this person? And what else has he got that he thinks might make me unhappy?


Where I was going with my questions was that after reading around these types of forums, people can start creating problems that didn't exist before because we compare relationships. I thought after reading SA posts about her communication with her husband that you might have felt you wanted that. This is entirely different though.


----------



## always_alone

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Where I was going with my questions was that after reading around these types of forums, people can start creating problems that didn't exist before because we compare relationships. I thought after reading SA posts about her communication with her husband that you might have felt you wanted that. This is entirely different though.


No but I hear you, and point taken. I do struggle with this on some levels, wondering to what extent my SO is actually lying/hiding/avoiding conflict and what I am blowing out of proportion because of random stuff I read on the internet.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> I do wonder about who gets to define something as minor, though, and not worth "rocking the boat" over...


Well, we all do. I guess that's the reason people clamor for more transparency. On the other hand, some wanting transparency would really be happier in ignorance. I mean, would it be at all helpful to know that your SO has a dream or fantasy about your best friend or sibling? Does any man really want to hear his wife/gf say that, even while she's perfectly satisfied, ideally and totally honestly, she prefers a larger penis? Nothing good comes of such things. It's not worth saying, and we all judge what is and isn't hurtful or worth saying based on our perceptions of other people. I have a hard time believing anyone to be perfectly open and honest, because no one is perfectly secure.

Such things are of course human nature, but we don't want them to be. We want to idealize. Some people can't handle knowing the undesirable thing even if its completely unrealistic, would never be pursued, or isn't important to the teller. They become acidic.

"Does this dress make me look fat?" she asks. "No, your ass makes you look fat." ~said no husband ever, even if it's true. Even if it were true, and was said, it wouldn't mean it matters much to him.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening all
If you want your partner to be open and transparent you need to be EXTREMELY open minded, and secure yourself. People have lots of thoughts that they wouldn't normally share with someone else. If you want openness you need to be able to accept - because these are very common:

1) they may love you but you are NOT the perfect physical form. 

2) They love you but they fantasize about other people - yes, even people you both know.

3) They don't want to act on them but they have exotic or disturbing fantasies - same-sex, rape, bestiality, etc. 

4). There are things they want in bed that you aren't willing to do, or that a previous lover did better.

5), You are a bit overweight, and you are not the "biggest" guy they have ever been with  

Unless you can accept answers like this, you need to accept that complete openness may not be the best plan. There may be some people with no "bad" thoughts, but I think there are a lot of really good people who do have "bad" thoughts.


----------



## U.E. McGill

I'm late to this party but wanted to answer the poster who asked "for men who like this, what do you get out of it?

My wife and I have a captain/first officer relationship. She defers to me, ultimately so it's not a relationship based on equality. I'm no chauvinist and she puts a huge amount of trust in me. I take my leadership seriously. 

In the bedroom I'm a natural dom. It starts with dominance hours before and often ends in me trying to push her face through the mattress. 

So what do I get out of it? Do I feel like more of a man? Hell yeah! I love doing what ever I want without question. I think the best statement I've read is "she's a vessel to receive my pleasure". 

I'm physically much stronger than my wife. She sometimes needs to be bratty to get punished so to speak. She'll act out just to ramp up the sexual energy. I love tossing her around or play wrestling until she submits. It's so powerful. I especially love to pin her to the bed so she can't move.

I figured out through trial and error, she never told me. But she never said no either. 

To me, it reinforces my position in the marriage.


----------



## heartsbeating

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Where I was going with my questions was that after reading around these types of forums, people can start creating problems that didn't exist before because we compare relationships. I thought after reading SA posts about her communication with her husband that you might have felt you wanted that. This is entirely different though.


This is a really valid point. And particularly if there are issues in the marriage, it can perhaps magnify things that aren't deserving of being magnified.


----------



## heartsbeating

When I mentioned that I wouldn't take the approach of printing off Dvls post (as great as it was and props to him for his expression of this), it wasn't to suggest that SA's needs and desires shouldn't be shared with her husband - just that my delivery would have been different. I'm pleased that it worked well for her marriage. I respect that. 

If I was on the receiving end and experienced a different reaction, it's simply that I'm human (gasp!) and have my own interpretations. To me, transparency doesn't necessarily mean expressing everything we think and feel and expecting our SO to just accept it. There's merit to knowing why we'd share and if it's worthwhile, as well as considering how we go about communicating it. 

SA mentioned tone, body language and all of these things that obviously are significant to the intent of what we wish to share. Can I bring that back around to the original thought of this thread? The body language and intent of a man who cares and loves his woman, will still be evident even in the way he flips her around and takes charge.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

You know what I find interesting on this thread..







is liking all of Always Alone's posts ! 



committed4ever said:


> I agree 100%. * I guess it takes time to build up trust to do it, though.
> 
> That being said, I still have not had the courage to discuss my rape fantasy with my H.*


 well we didn't even open up about masturbation for 19 yrs.. so heck, you are doing better than I was !.. Sex and this fantasy talk was really the ONLY area we didn't jump into & dig deep....so when this flew open, we got a little carried away I guess..



always_alone said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I very much admire the level of openness you have in your marriage and would love to build more transparency into mine. *Trouble is, when I express how I really feel about things, he feels helpless, or worse, attacked, and is even less likely to be open with me.*


 this has to be very very difficult...some of what you have shared here.. the 15 yrs..his lying...you had your foundation pulled out from under you.. how can you trust him.. just being reasonable here.. he destroyed that ....he didn't handle you with care....your saying he mentioned sleeping with your best friend ...or temptation at the bar... there is a line that delves into blatant "I might as well slap her across the face" DISRESPECT .. ya know.....this is hurtful to your core Always alone.. 

I read why you stay.... even this has to be a daily battle... If you have a lot to give, you deserve so much better...

As Richardsharpe tried to lay out speaking of being extremely Open minded...but this open mindedness often grows out of the foundation laid between a couple.. trust is built upon this foundation.. with that trust comes an outlet for our vulnerability, reaching for more connection.....we are even encouraged to share.. and we validate along the way.. 

and too, even those who have all that may NOT want to go to these places, plenty of satisfied happy marriages who DO NOT SHARE SEXUAL FANTASIES openly.. and that's OK.. (personally I would find that BORING.. but that's me !)....

THen what Devil hinted at here >>



> *DvlsAdvc8 said*: *Such things are of course human nature, but we don't want them to be. We want to idealize. Some people can't handle knowing the undesirable thing even if its completely unrealistic, would never be pursued, or isn't important to the teller. They become acidic.*


 There is a dark side to human nature...do we dare peer ....

Speaking on men' fantasies.. there is a book entitled Men in Love: Books..this is not for the faint of heart... a woman with an idealistic view of men should not read this book.. she WILL BE greatly disturbed... now for someone like me.. I want to open the lid on that...I want to hear the RAW... I want the reality... 

My H has shared with me something he wouldn't mind involving another woman ..in one of our playful fantasy discussions.. this one I won't share here.. because someone would say "no man should admit that to his wife, is he stupid" ...or something like that.. BUT I ASKED darn it ..in fact I pushed a little... hinted..... I wanted to hear it....I did not get upset or put him in the dog house... now in getting deeper, *because we talk about all aspects *... (by the way it's not intercourse, it's not oral , but it's sexual and erotic)...he also admits he'd feel "bad" about it (shame, because although he'd love it -he wouldn't feel right about it -like it would be against me)...but the lust centers of his brain would still be titilated by it.. Could a wife handle hearing this from a husband ??

And even if everyone thinks there is something wrong with me for wanting to hear this...That's OK.. I'll take it.. 

I feel much of my comfort...(and his)....is wrapped up in our history... he has never lied to me... oh he has been passive...but trying to hide something...intentionally hurt me....got caught with his pants down .. never happened...even when I was a little too religious , and he'd sneak some Playboy porn (some may call this art)...he didn't try to hide it..his folders were easy to find... he'd fess up... looking back I think I had the lousier attitude on that one....He needed my understanding.. as he was a faithful good man...even if he still liked to view some variety.. these things have not hurt us.. 

But what if he was a sex addict, what if he jacked to porn every day leaving his wife hanging... These things destroy.. ya know... every marital situation is so different. Some can not BE around temptation, they can't handle it..so the right thing to do is to not go to those places.. being accountable to someone can help them through it.....can a wife hear this ?? can she stand knowing knowing her husband is LIKE this.. 

I just started to read a book called "NO STONES" - it's about Female sex addiction -written by a former addict...(curious is all) .. many infidelities, cheated on both husbands.. I could be wrong...but I am pretty sure this husband stuck beside her.. now that was some blatant honesty ...(her daughter wrote the preface..very inspiring).... this woman, because of her past, has a very valuable message of understanding and compassion...why the title is so fitting.. about NOT throwing stones...

Just saying.. the level of transparency in some marriages.. it can be a blessing to help us get where we need to go.. her hiding everything from him. or his not being able to face her internal battles.. what a shame it would have been.. so instead ..they worked together as a team.. bared it all - and still found that acceptance... extreme example I suppose.. but for some, it IS the way... 

It takes 2 people who want the very best for each other though. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> *I'm inclined to think most marriages are not 100% transparent. I believe everyone has things they just don't say. Usually minor things - desires or interests that really aren't important - and not worth rocking the boat over.*


 Of course this is true DvlsAdvc8.. it's not like I/we speak every part of our day.. he'd want to run from the house holding his ears!...It's the stuff that has THE POWER to cause a rift, a disconnect if we don't air it out... 



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> If you want your partner to be open and transparent you need to be EXTREMELY open minded, and secure yourself. People have lots of thoughts that they wouldn't normally share with someone else. If you want openness you need to be able to accept - because these are very common:
> 
> 1) they may love you but you are NOT the perfect physical form.
> 
> 2) They love you but they fantasize about other people - yes, even people you both know.
> 
> 3) They don't want to act on them but they have exotic or disturbing fantasies - same-sex, rape, bestiality, etc.
> 
> 4). There are things they want in bed that you aren't willing to do, or that a previous lover did better.
> 
> 5), You are a bit overweight, and you are not the "biggest" guy they have ever been with
> 
> *Unless you can accept answers like this, you need to accept that complete openness may not be the best plan. There may be some people with no "bad" thoughts, but I think there are a lot of really good people who do have "bad" thoughts.*


 I like your ending... I took this test a few years back... just for fun...
 Take The Dirty Mind Test

My rating was "Pretty messy" ...hadn't reached FILTHY status yet.. which was described like this " your mind is a wasteland of perversion and impurity. Congratulations! You are officially in possession of a dirty mind. You probably enjoy dirty jokes very much and appreciate the sexy things in life. Thinking about sex is something you do often, and you probably wonder why other people can't loosen up."... 

Ok it was a fun test.. but yeah.. me & H could talk about all manner of these things..



> *heartsbeating said*: *The body language and intent of a man who cares and loves his woman, will still be evident even in the way he flips her around and takes charge*.


 He flipped me tonight -- it's not something I am used to...but I sure noticed...and smiled real big... 

On the transparency thing ...try to excuse me...when this topic comes up.. it's one I like to delve into..it means sooo very much to me.. really I couldn't be with a man who didn't want that openness and appreciate it ...because that's a big part of who I am and how I share, if he spit on it....well.. we wouldn't fit.... that's just my preference.... 

At the end of the day...all of us has to decide what is best for our own marriages..


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> He flipped me tonight -- it's not something I am used to...but I sure noticed...and smiled real big...


w00t!!



SimplyAmorous said:


> .. really I couldn't be with a man who didn't want that openness and appreciate it ...because that's a big part of who I am and how I share, if he spit on it....well.. we wouldn't fit.... that's just my preference....


I feel similarly to this, as well as what I wrote before. My husband and I are privy to aspects of one another that others will never know or experience. I cherish this. And it's become greater since we 'reset' our marriage. There's a beauty in knowing one another intimately.


----------



## COGypsy

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm late to this party but wanted to answer the poster who asked "for men who like this, what do you get out of it?
> 
> My wife and I have a captain/first officer relationship. She defers to me, ultimately so it's not a relationship based on equality. I'm no chauvinist and she puts a huge amount of trust in me. I take my leadership seriously.
> 
> In the bedroom I'm a natural dom. It starts with dominance hours before and often ends in me trying to push her face through the mattress.
> 
> So what do I get out of it? Do I feel like more of a man? Hell yeah! I love doing what ever I want without question. I think the best statement I've read is "she's a vessel to receive my pleasure".
> 
> I'm physically much stronger than my wife. She sometimes needs to be bratty to get punished so to speak. She'll act out just to ramp up the sexual energy. I love tossing her around or play wrestling until she submits. It's so powerful. I especially love to pin her to the bed so she can't move.
> 
> I figured out through trial and error, she never told me. But she never said no either.
> 
> To me, it reinforces my position in the marriage.



Jesus. "Men" like this are why I sleep with a gun handy.


----------



## FalconKing

COGypsy said:


> Jesus. "Men" like this are why I sleep with a gun handy.



Maybe she's a surrendered wife? Actually his post and the relationship he has with his wife is what I would have thought was more commonplace. I would have assumed that women who want a man to be dominant in bed would also want him to be dominant in other parts of the relationship. Because they are relinquishing control in moments of intimacy and just trusting him to please them. Also they are just free to enjoy themselves. 

One of the things I was asking myself before making this topic was: "Women fight so hard for equality. Yet, in the moments of intimacy why do so many women enjoy relinquishing control to men?" So then I thought: "Perhaps women who prefer dominant sex, prefer dominant men." 

Then I thought about Responsive Desire. Since some women's desire for sex is a response to a man's desire, then the stronger his desire the stronger her arousal. And the apex of that would be him just wanting to ravage her. 

But I've gotten some good feedback. Just wanted to say I would have assumed the dynamics of his relationship would be complimentary to the sexual relationship.


----------



## Holland

FalconKing said:


> Maybe she's a surrendered wife? Actually his post and the relationship he has with his wife is what I would have thought was more commonplace. I would have assumed that women who want a man to be dominant in bed would also want him to be dominant in other parts of the relationship. Because they are relinquishing control in moments of intimacy and just trusting him to please them. Also they are just free to enjoy themselves.
> 
> One of the things I was asking myself before making this topic was: "Women fight so hard for equality. Yet, in the moments of intimacy why do so many women enjoy relinquishing control to men?" *So then I thought: "Perhaps women who prefer dominant sex, prefer dominant men." *
> 
> Then I thought about Responsive Desire. Since some women's desire for sex is a response to a man's desire, then the stronger his desire the stronger her arousal. And the apex of that would be him just wanting to ravage her.
> 
> But I've gotten some good feedback. Just wanted to say I would have assumed the dynamics of his relationship would be complimentary to the sexual relationship.


Not here, a man like that would repulse me. I like him to be dominant "at times" in the bedroom but outside of the bedroom I could not stomach a man that thought he was the boss of the world. I prefer men with very high IQ and EQ's, not men that think women are here to serve men.


----------



## FalconKing

Holland said:


> Not here, a man like that would repulse me. I like him to be dominant "at times" in the bedroom but outside of the bedroom I could not stomach a man that thought he was the boss of the world. I prefer men with very high IQ and EQ's, not men that think women are here to serve men.



Thanks Holland. Based on the responses, I think a lot of women feel the same way you do.


----------



## Lyris

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm late to this party but wanted to answer the poster who asked "for men who like this, what do you get out of it?
> 
> My wife and I have a captain/first officer relationship. She defers to me, ultimately so it's not a relationship based on equality. I'm no chauvinist and she puts a huge amount of trust in me. I take my leadership seriously.
> 
> In the bedroom I'm a natural dom. It starts with dominance hours before and often ends in me trying to push her face through the mattress.
> 
> So what do I get out of it? Do I feel like more of a man? Hell yeah! I love doing what ever I want without question. I think the best statement I've read is "she's a vessel to receive my pleasure".
> 
> I'm physically much stronger than my wife. She sometimes needs to be bratty to get punished so to speak. She'll act out just to ramp up the sexual energy. I love tossing her around or play wrestling until she submits. It's so powerful. I especially love to pin her to the bed so she can't move.
> 
> I figured out through trial and error, she never told me. But she never said no either.
> 
> To me, it reinforces my position in the marriage.



Thin actually makes me feel sick. Face pushed into the mattress? "Vessel for his pleasure"?

My husband and I are totally equal outside the bedroom. In the bedroom I'd say it's a 3/4 - 1/4 split, him taking the more dominant role 3/4 of the time. 

But defer to him? No.


----------



## U.E. McGill

COGypsy said:


> Jesus. "Men" like this are why I sleep with a gun handy.



Yep! My wife does sleep with a gun. Maybe I should get her another?


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> Maybe she's a surrendered wife? Actually his post and the relationship he has with his wife is what I would have thought was more commonplace. I would have assumed that women who want a man to be dominant in bed would also want him to be dominant in other parts of the relationship. Because they are relinquishing control in moments of intimacy and just trusting him to please them. Also they are just free to enjoy themselves.
> 
> One of the things I was asking myself before making this topic was: "Women fight so hard for equality. Yet, in the moments of intimacy why do so many women enjoy relinquishing control to men?" So then I thought: "Perhaps women who prefer dominant sex, prefer dominant men."
> 
> Then I thought about Responsive Desire. Since some women's desire for sex is a response to a man's desire, then the stronger his desire the stronger her arousal. And the apex of that would be him just wanting to ravage her.
> 
> But I've gotten some good feedback. Just wanted to say I would have assumed the dynamics of his relationship would be complimentary to the sexual relationship.


It is not necessarily true that a woman who wants more dominance from a man in the bedroom would want that to extend to the rest of the relationship. Some do, but I would hazard a guess that most do not. 

For instance, that occasional time that I allow my husband to top me in the bedroom is awesome, but if he treated me like that outside of the bedroom, resentment would grow. I would feel suffocated to the point where I'd explode. I am also sure that the amount of dominance I show in the bedroom would not be good outside of the bedroom, when it comes to our relationship. 

While I don't share GettingIt's desire for a much more full time D/s relationship with her husband, and having a marriage like U.E. McGill's would absolutely drive me crazy (not in a good way), I can respect that this is the way that they wish to live. However, in most cases, I think we read too much into sexual behavior. Sex is sex, kink is kink, while relationships are much more complex. 

On the obverse side, there are a lot of men that want a woman to just "take what she wants." What does that say about men? Does that mean that they all want to submit to women and be a "vessel for her pleasure?" Of course not. Does it mean that all those men, who just want women to jump their bones, are asking to have a full time D/s relationship? Again, of course not! 

Do not make the mistake of reading into your partner's desire for rough, dominant sex as a sign that she wants a Captain/First Officer type of relationship. She may not.


----------



## Middle of Everything

I think most of us have known a Captain/first-mate couple where the Captain dies and the first-mate does a near 180 in her behavior with her new found freedom.

Makes you think, how much did they really like being "first-mate"?


----------



## COGypsy

U.E. McGill said:


> Yep! My wife does sleep with a gun. Maybe I should get her another?


Then you're braver than I'd expect for a man who gets his rocks off hurting women.


----------



## FalconKing

HappyGilmore said:


> It is not necessarily true that a woman who wants more dominance from a man in the bedroom would want that to extend to the rest of the relationship. Some do, but I would hazard a guess that most do not.
> 
> 
> 
> For instance, that occasional time that I allow my husband to top me in the bedroom is awesome, but if he treated me like that outside of the bedroom, resentment would grow. I would feel suffocated to the point where I'd explode. I am also sure that the amount of dominance I show in the bedroom would not be good outside of the bedroom, when it comes to our relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> However, in most cases, I think we read too much into sexual behavior. Sex is sex, kink is kink, while relationships are much more complex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not make the mistake of reading into your partner's desire for rough, dominant sex as a sign that she wants a Captain/First Officer type of relationship. She may not.



I see your point Happy. And you are right, even when I look at this in myself. I sometimes like for a woman to degrade me. But in the context of the actually relationship, I have a lot of pride and cannot stand to be disrespected. The more I think about, it's kind of ironic that I need this to be simple and black and white when I myself have a complex sexuality.


----------



## FalconKing

COGypsy said:


> Then you're braver than I'd expect for a man who gets his rocks off hurting women.



Aww come on! That's a bit of a jump. It sounds like he's dominant in all aspects of the relationship and he likes it that way. You gonna blast him for that?


----------



## COGypsy

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm late to this party but wanted to answer the poster who asked "for men who like this, what do you get out of it?
> 
> My wife and I have a captain/first officer relationship. She defers to me, ultimately so *it's not a relationship based on equality*. I'm no chauvinist and she puts a huge amount of trust in me. I take my leadership seriously.
> 
> In the bedroom I'm a natural dom. It starts with dominance hours before and often ends in *me trying to push her face through the mattress.*
> 
> So what do I get out of it? Do I feel like more of a man? Hell yeah! * I love doing what ever I want without question*. I think the best statement I've read is "*she's a vessel to receive my pleasure*".
> 
> I'm physically much stronger than my wife. She sometimes needs to be bratty to get punished so to speak. She'll act out just to ramp up the sexual energy. I love tossing her around or play wrestling until she submits. It's so powerful. I especially love to pin her to the bed so she can't move.
> 
> I figured out through trial and error, she never told me. But she never said no either.
> 
> To me,* it reinforces my position in the marriage*.





FalconKing said:


> Aww come on! That's a bit of a jump. It sounds like he's dominant in all aspects of the relationship and he likes it that way. You gonna blast him for that?


Yep. 

I would say I'm a pretty dominant person in most areas of my life. Any given situation, I basically assume that I'll be the one to take charge and make a decision or drive whatever action needs to be taken. 

You know what I don't do? Hurt people to get my way. Subjugate them to make myself feel more powerful. That's abusive, not "dominant".


----------



## FalconKing

Middle of Everything said:


> I think most of us have known a Captain/first-mate couple where the Captain dies and the first-mate does a near 180 in her behavior with her new found freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> Makes you think, how much did they really like being "first-mate"?



I think that's more learning to rely on yourself. Like that person who has never been single and then they go through a bad divorce. Now they are making all of their own life decisions and living just for themselves. It's very hard but then becomes very rewarding and liberating. 

On the other side of the spectrum you may have women that have always been independent and self sufficient. But they may be looking for a man strong enough to exhibit some kind of control or dominance over them.


----------



## U.E. McGill

COGypsy said:


> Then you're braver than I'd expect for a man who gets his rocks off hurting women.



I'd love for an open honest conversation. You fail at reading comprehension miserably. I have never abused my wife in any way. Do not read into my literary license and find "facts" that aren't there. 

I'm open to any clarification but stop your stupid and incorrect assumptions.


----------



## FalconKing

COGypsy said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say I'm a pretty dominant person in most areas of my life. Any given situation, I basically assume that I'll be the one to take charge and make a decision or drive whatever action needs to be taken.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what I don't do? Hurt people to get my way. Subjugate them to make myself feel more powerful. That's abusive, not "dominant".



All of those things you have bolded are things some women have said they have found hot during sex. Even having the man just use them. Is he not supposed to enjoy it? Are you angry that he is gloating about being the center of the relationship? I can understand that. But I wouldn't say he abuses women. That's a heavy thing to put on a man when things are debatable.


----------



## FalconKing

Lila said:


> I've known many couples who share a D/s relationship and they all have one thing in common. They are in that type of relationship because they WANT TO BE not because they HAVE TO BE.
> 
> I think people are having an issue with your post U.E. McGill because nowhere in it did you state "My wife also enjoys this" or "My wife freely agrees to this". Whether it was intentional or not, there no mention of a mutually satisfactory relationship. It's all about you.



I think it's perception. When I read this I assumed his wife did, and some people read and assumed she didn't.


----------



## Nynaeve

FalconKing said:


> I think it's perception. When I read this I assumed his wife did, and some people read and assumed she didn't.


The only thing I assumed is that it wasn't important enough to him to mention. And that, in itself, tells us something.


----------



## COGypsy

FalconKing said:


> All of those things you have bolded are things some women have said they have found hot during sex. Even having the man just use them. Is he not supposed to enjoy it? Are you angry that he is gloating about being the center of the relationship? I can understand that. But I wouldn't say he abuses women. That's a heavy thing to put on a man when things are debatable.


I can't personally imagine finding _any _of those things stimulating. In my intimate relationships, I require respect and trust and I don't see how someone preferring to operate at such a brutish level could instill either of those things. What I fundamentally oppose is the "zero sum" approach. That one must feel pain for the other to feel pleasure; that one has to be "less" so the other can be "more". I don't find that to be an acceptable or an attractive dynamic in a relationship presumably of equals.

I would say that what that poster wrote is pretty close to criminal. Suffocation/strangulation are generally booked as attempted murder or aggravated assault--felonies, not misdemeanors. I'd call "pushing someone's face through a mattress" suffocation and the fact that it seems to be described as a regular activity would absolutely be described as physical and sexual abuse in just about any court of law.


----------



## ocotillo

U.E. McGill said:


> Do not read into my literary license and find "facts" that aren't there.


I think we both know that when the bones in somebody's fingers are no thicker that chicken bones and their wrists are less than half the size of ours, that we have to hold back. Just the act of picking up an adult size person (As opposed to a child) without hurting them is something most of us aren't born knowing how to do. (Which I tried to illustrate with a movie clip farther up the thread.)

The whole dominance in the bedroom thing involves a fair amount of play acting on our part and an element of trust, even if its unspoken, so I think the literary license may have given a few people a twinge when they read it.


----------



## FalconKing

COGypsy said:


> I can't personally imagine finding _any _of those things stimulating. In my intimate relationships, I require respect and trust and I don't see how someone preferring to operate at such a brutish level could instill either of those things. What I fundamentally oppose is the "zero sum" approach. That one must feel pain for the other to feel pleasure; that one has to be "less" so the other can be "more". I don't find that to be an acceptable or an attractive dynamic in a relationship presumably of equals.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that what that poster wrote is pretty close to criminal. Suffocation/strangulation are generally booked as attempted murder or aggravated assault--felonies, not misdemeanors. I'd call "pushing someone's face through a mattress" suffocation and the fact that it seems to be described as a regular activity would absolutely be described as physical and sexual abuse in just about any court of law.



I'm sure you've read the post made by women. And it really sounds like you advocating for this man's arrest. Some people find pleasure in being dominated. None of this seems to apply to you. I get it. But I didn't see you shaming the women for wanting a man to pull their hair, spank them, pinned them down and fvck them.. So maybe you should lay off the guy that does it and likes doing it.


----------



## U.E. McGill

COGypsy said:


> I can't personally imagine finding _any _of those things stimulating. In my intimate relationships, I require respect and trust and I don't see how someone preferring to operate at such a brutish level could instill either of those things. What I fundamentally oppose is the "zero sum" approach. That one must feel pain for the other to feel pleasure; that one has to be "less" so the other can be "more". I don't find that to be an acceptable or an attractive dynamic in a relationship presumably of equals.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that what that poster wrote is pretty close to criminal. Suffocation/strangulation are generally booked as attempted murder or aggravated assault--felonies, not misdemeanors. I'd call "pushing someone's face through a mattress" suffocation and the fact that it seems to be described as a regular activity would absolutely be described as physical and sexual abuse in just about any court of law.



Once again literary license. You were so intent on jumping to conclusions you read it as suffocating. I NEVER SAID SUFFOCATE. How many women on this thread have said they like a good jack hammering? Well from my perspective (doggy) it looks like I'm trying to push my wife's face thru the bed while jack hammering. I guess maybe only a man would get this. 

You're wrong wrong wrong. 

My wife does voluntarily ask for this. I failed early in my marriage for giving up too much of my leadership when she was desperately asking me to lead.


----------



## COGypsy

FalconKing said:


> I'm sure you've read the post made by women. And it really sounds like you advocating for this man's arrest. Some people find pleasure in being dominated. None of this my seems to apply to you. I get it. But I didn't see you shaming the women for wanting a man to pull their hair, spank them, pinned them down and fvck them.. So maybe you should lay off the guy that does it and likes doing it.





committed4ever said:


> I assumed they are in a d/s and she is a willing participant. I read something totally different into "push her face into the mattress". In the end if this is what they both want I don't see the reason for all the dramatic statements from those who DON'T want this kind of relationship.
> 
> Some women think receiving their husband seed in their mouth is demeaning and disgusting. So a BJ to completion is not for them. Does that men that a man who wants and gets that should be disparaged if HIS wife wants to do it? Personally I would NEVER EVER want a penis in my butt but there are many women on TAM who want it, and many men on TAM who are more than happy to stick it up there. In the past I would have made a disparaging statement about his but now Im of the ind that If its consensual and they both enjoy it then fine. If it ends up being problem when you get old and can't hold your bowels, but you feel it was worth it, then fine. (Not saying that would happen, just saying a possible negative consequence,)


I see a huge difference between hair pulling/spanking/neck biting and activities that can go tragically awry. Yes--if you hit me whether you're being "sexy" or not, I'm absolutely going to punch you back someplace as painful as I can reach, but we'll both be fine tomorrow. If you suffocate me though, I'm dead. It's like Committed's example--oral sex/swallowing is a negotiable much like hair pulling/biting. Anal sex would be more like suffocating. Sure, it might turn out fine. Or you might be in surgery for an anal prolapse. And separately or alone you might be into those activities--doesn't make them any safer.


----------



## FalconKing

U.E. McGill said:


> Once again literary license. You were so intent on jumping to conclusions you read it as suffocating. I NEVER SAID SUFFOCATE. How many women on this thread have said they like a good jack hammering? Well from my perspective (doggy) it looks like I'm trying to push my wife's face thru the bed while jack hammering. I guess maybe only a man would get this.
> 
> You're wrong wrong wrong.
> 
> My wife does voluntarily ask for this. I failed early in my marriage for giving up too much of my leadership when she was desperately asking me to lead.



Well there you go. He took pleasure and being dominant with his wife and taking the lead in the relationship. How chauvinistic of him. 

Now he's revealed how he failed early on in his marriage and wasn't the man his wife wanted him to be. So now I guess some of you ladies can like him since we now know he was a bad husband and is trying to fix his marriage.


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> Well there you go. He took pleasure and being dominant with his wife and taking the lead in the relationship. How chauvinistic of him.
> 
> Now he's revealed how he failed early on in his marriage and wasn't the man his wife wanted him to be. So now I guess some of you ladies can like him since we now know he was a bad husband and is trying to fix his marriage.


:iagree:

I think it would behoove us all to calm down a little on U.E. McGill. As I've stated, living in that kind of relationship would send me through the roof (in anger, frustration, and resentment), but that's why it isn't for everyone. I assumed, however, that this relationship was consensual when he said "and she trusts me." There you have it. 

Yes, I winced when I read "the vessel" for his pleasure line, because again, this kind of relationship is not for me. But, reading between the lines, I'd guess that it is mutually pleasurable both for him AND his wife. 

I also do not think he is abusing his wife. They live in a 24/7 D/s relationship. Not my thing, and certainly not many other people's thing, but we have a saying in the BDSM community: your kink is not my kink, but your kink is okay.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening all
Its all about consent - and that is complicated. 

There ARE people who want to be dominated, even hurt in bed. Really. They are able to consent to beatings, and activities that would clearly be rape in the absence of consent. As long as no significant damage is done, that is fine. 

Where things get tricky is the question of what it is "OK" to consent to. Personally I am deeply bothered by 24/7 BDSM relationships. Does someone have the right to in advance give consent to their partner to completely control their lives? If not, what are the limits to consent?

Can someone consent to never being able to withdraw consent? Is "no-safeword" BDSM ever OK? 

How can an outside observer tell if there really is consent in a long-term D/S relationship?

FWIW: I'm all in favor of rough play in bed - bring out the whips and candle wax. I would NEVER want to be in a situation where someone cannot immediately withdraw consent, or where the D/S relationship exists outside of sex-play.


----------



## Nynaeve

My problem with the "man is the head of the household/wife is submissive" dynamic is that most of the time I don't really think the wife is truly freely choosing that dynamic. Most times it is chosen for her by religious and cultural indoctrination.

It's one thing if a woman can freely choose that dynamic and does so because she honestly likes it. It's completely different if she believes that God will be displeased with her, she'll be living in sin and her life and marriage will be destroyed if she doesn't go along with the male = the boss dynamic.

That's not really consent, IMO. And "she never said no so she must like it" is absolutely ridiculous in such a dynamic. If she doesn't have the option to say no, she's not going to say no. If she has been indoctrinated to believe that she must submit to her husband in all things and that refusing him would be like rebelling against God....she's not going to refuse, regardless of whether she actually wants or likes it.

I think most people on TAM don't have enough experience with fundamentalist Christians to understand how little real choice there is for millions of women who are submissive to their husbands. It's like Stockholm syndrome on steroids.


----------



## HappyGilmore

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Its all about consent - and that is complicated.
> 
> There ARE people who want to be dominated, even hurt in bed. Really. They are able to consent to beatings, and activities that would clearly be rape in the absence of consent. As long as no significant damage is done, that is fine.
> 
> Where things get tricky is the question of what it is "OK" to consent to. Personally I am deeply bothered by 24/7 BDSM relationships. Does someone have the right to in advance give consent to their partner to completely control their lives? If not, what are the limits to consent?
> 
> Can someone consent to never being able to withdraw consent? Is "no-safeword" BDSM ever OK?
> 
> How can an outside observer tell if there really is consent in a long-term D/S relationship?
> 
> FWIW: I'm all in favor of rough play in bed - bring out the whips and candle wax. I would NEVER want to be in a situation where someone cannot immediately withdraw consent, or where the D/S relationship exists outside of sex-play.


I think what happens in relationships between dominants and submissives is that they naturally fall into these roles, because it is part of who they are, part of their personalities. But I think the implementation of a 24/7 D/s relationship must involve mutual consent--which can be withdrawn at anytime by either party. You will see this in most of the couples in D/s relationships at BDSM community get-togethers like munches, where people speak frankly about what all of this stuff means to them. Nearly every couple that I've ever met that had this arrangement had a safe word, not only for the sexual aspect of it, but also for the relationship aspect. 

This helps in case the submissive is just sick of being controlled all the time, and would like a break from it. In fact, I've known couples that do take a break from the D/s stuff for awhile, and have an egalitarian relationship for a time. One can get lost in it, especially a submissive, and that can lead to trouble. In these cases, they will have a safe word that says--"enough, I need to speak freely without worrying about being spanked for it," or whatever. This is not always the case, but I've seen it in some couples.

The sexual sadomasochism part of a D/s relationship (and some D/s couples have purely vanilla sex, so don't assume that all D/s couples are into whips and chains) should ALWAYS have a safe word. No-safe word BDSM is completely unacceptable, and very unsafe.

Would a D/s couple look to an outsider like they had mutual consent? Most likely not, especially to those who are unfamiliar with this lifestyle. However, all consent has been decided ahead of time, and is actually re-negotiated daily.

Again, this sort of relationship is not my bag. But I can respect those who find this to be a fulfilling way to live.


----------



## Lyris

I don't think he's abusing his wife. But I don't like the tone of these MMSLP/PUA posts that insinuate that ALL women want relationships like this, and it is fact, the natural state. That women aren't equipped to lead.

I've read posts from that poster before that were clearly lifted pretty directly from MMSLP book or website and I find them really distasteful. I'm going to object every time I read them.


----------



## FalconKing

Nynaeve said:


> My problem with the "man is the head of the household/wife is submissive" dynamic is that most of the time I don't really think the wife is truly freely choosing that dynamic. Most times it is chosen for her by religious and cultural indoctrination.
> 
> It's one thing if a woman can freely choose that dynamic and does so because she honestly likes it. It's completely different if she believes that God will be displeased with her, she'll be living in sin and her life and marriage will be destroyed if she doesn't go along with the male = the boss dynamic.
> 
> That's not really consent, IMO. And "she never said no so she must like it" is absolutely ridiculous in such a dynamic. If she doesn't have the option to say no, she's not going to say no. If she has been indoctrinated to believe that she must submit to her husband in all things and that refusing him would be like rebelling against God....she's not going to refuse, regardless of whether she actually wants or likes it.
> 
> I think most people on TAM don't have enough experience with fundamentalist Christians to understand how little real choice there is for millions of women who are submissive to their husbands. It's like Stockholm syndrome on steroids.



You could argue that men used organized religion to oppress women, as well as other things. And I have seen situations like that first hand. But that doesn't mean anytime a woman is in this kind of relationship she is being oppressed. Especially in western society. Some women like to defer to the man. Also, I think a lot of men wouldn't mind deferring to the woman. But I don't think a lot of woman or attracted to that. 

And way to make a blanket statement about what kind of experiences people have had that post here. So If they don't agree with you, it's because of their ignorance right?


----------



## melw74

Nynaeve said:


> My problem with the "man is the head of the household/wife is submissive" dynamic is that most of the time I don't really think the wife is truly freely choosing that dynamic. Most times it is chosen for her by religious and cultural indoctrination.
> 
> It's one thing if a woman can freely choose that dynamic and does so because she honestly likes it. It's completely different if she believes that God will be displeased with her, she'll be living in sin and her life and marriage will be destroyed if she doesn't go along with the male = the boss dynamic.
> 
> That's not really consent, IMO. And "she never said no so she must like it" is absolutely ridiculous in such a dynamic. If she doesn't have the option to say no, she's not going to say no. If she has been indoctrinated to believe that she must submit to her husband in all things and that refusing him would be like rebelling against God....she's not going to refuse, regardless of whether she actually wants or likes it.
> 
> I think most people on TAM don't have enough experience with fundamentalist Christians to understand how little real choice there is for millions of women who are submissive to their husbands. It's like Stockholm syndrome on steroids.


I am not a christian..... and i am a submissive/ surrendered wife..... I am one because i want to be... My choice, nothing to do with religion.... I know it is for some, but not for me...

P.S i know you said most of the time


----------



## over20

Nynaeve said:


> My problem with the "man is the head of the household/wife is submissive" dynamic is that most of the time I don't really think the wife is truly freely choosing that dynamic. Most times it is chosen for her by religious and cultural indoctrination.
> 
> It's one thing if a woman can freely choose that dynamic and does so because she honestly likes it. It's completely different if she believes that God will be displeased with her, she'll be living in sin and her life and marriage will be destroyed if she doesn't go along with the male = the boss dynamic.
> 
> That's not really consent, IMO. And "she never said no so she must like it" is absolutely ridiculous in such a dynamic. If she doesn't have the option to say no, she's not going to say no. If she has been indoctrinated to believe that she must submit to her husband in all things and that refusing him would be like rebelling against God....she's not going to refuse, regardless of whether she actually wants or likes it.
> 
> I think most people on TAM don't have enough experience with fundamentalist Christians to understand how little real choice there is for millions of women who are submissive to their husbands. It's like Stockholm syndrome on steroids.




Being a Christian I agree and disagree with you. The relationship between the husband and wife is ideally meant to be a "perfect balance." The husband as "head" is also commanded in Scripture to serve and cherish his wife...even laying down his life for his wife as Christ did for his church...IT IS NOT MEANT FOR THE HUSBAND TO RULE WITH AN IRON FIST.

That being said, the "submissive" role of the wife is meant that she also is to serve, love and cherish her husband....the tough part is that each "Christian" couple shouldn't fall into the trap of being skewed by their church leaders or church family/friends...but to read Scripture themselves and see the beautiful marital design God created for them.

In my own marriage, I love when my husband gets very rough with me, NOT because I am submissive, which I am in a loving and strong way, but because it DEEPLY arouses me and I am very HD...both of our raw sexual desires come (LOL) out...

The Whoooole book of Songs of Solomon is about married sex, yes the King had other wives, which is a different topic. The book explains in detail female masturbation, oral sex and marital sex very, very tenderly but graphic.


I hope I made sense...:scratchhead:


----------



## HappyGilmore

Lyris said:


> I don't think he's abusing his wife. But I don't like the tone of these MMSLP/PUA posts that insinuate that ALL women want relationships like this, and it is fact, the natural state. That women aren't equipped to lead.
> 
> I've read posts from that poster before that were clearly lifted pretty directly from MMSLP book or website and I find them really distasteful. I'm going to object every time I read them.


I happen to believe that we should call a spade, a spade. MMSLP is merely 24/7 D/s, and I wish that the author of these books, website, and blog would just come right out and say it. I suppose having some disclaimer that this is actually a BDSM relationship manual with a vanilla-coating would not sell as many books...

It's quackery, however, if it is intended to apply to every relationship, every man, every woman. And I get sick of all of this alpha male/beta male nonsense. It places too many labels on people--we are civilized human beings, not members of a wolf pack. And where does the alpha female fit into this? Is there such a thing, or has the author of these books merely decided that all women are the same and wish to be treated like this?

I'm fine with people consenting to having relationships like this, but I know for sure that most men and women do not want it.


----------



## FalconKing

I really liked the MMSL book. I felt like it tells men to always look their best and have some self respect. Also, the author even said that sometimes women like dominant sex and a man should add this into an arsenal. But I see why women don't like it. A lot of women feel like these types of books advocate manipulation. Because it's telling you want to say or do in certain situations. Not really about being a good person. I understand where they are coming from.

I once read this book about why men like b!tches or something like that. The book was pretty much giving women a play by play of what to say and do to get men to want to marry them. It wasn't really about being a good person or living with some type character. Just how to attract men. I felt like it was knowledge that could empower women but that a man wouldn't really know if he had a good woman or a bad woman.


----------



## FalconKing

Will someone please tell me. What is D/s????


----------



## over20

FalconKing said:


> Will someone please tell me. What is D/s????


Dom/sub relationship
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nynaeve

FalconKing said:


> You could argue that men used organized religion to oppress women, as well as other things. And I have seen situations like that first hand. But that doesn't mean anytime a woman is in this kind of relationship she is being oppressed. Especially in western society. Some women like to defer to the man. Also, I think a lot of men wouldn't mind deferring to the woman. But I don't think a lot of woman or attracted to that.


I never said no women want that or that no women freely choose it. I left room for exceptions.

However, I still think that women raised to believe that they might go to hell if they don't submit to their husbands in all things aren't freely choosing that lifestyle. It's essentially coercion. Submit or go to hell. Which would you choose?



> And way to make a blanket statement about what kind of experiences people have had that post here. So If they don't agree with you, it's because of their ignorance right?


There's no need to get so defensive. I made no blanket statement. I posted my opinion. Key words "_I think_."

I have read a lot on this forum. It seems to me that in topics like this people end up discussing D/s relationships almost entirely in terms of kink. I have rarely seen anyone post comments which indicate that they're thinking of it in terms of Christian patriarchy. Christians have their own unique set of buzzwords and catch phrases that they use. The absence of those words and phrases is a pretty good indicator that people don't have a lot of experience with fundies.

It is a whole different ball game when we're talking about lifestyle choices based on people's preferences vs. lifestyle based on religious beliefs.


----------



## Nynaeve

over20 said:


> Being a Christian I agree and disagree with you. The relationship between the husband and wife is ideally meant to be a "perfect balance." The husband as "head" is also commanded in Scripture to serve and cherish his wife...even laying down his life for his wife as Christ did for his church...IT IS NOT MEANT FOR THE HUSBAND TO RULE WITH AN IRON FIST.
> 
> That being said, the "submissive" role of the wife is meant that she also is to serve, love and cherish her husband....the tough part is that each "Christian" couple shouldn't fall into the trap of being skewed by their church leaders or church family/friends...but to read Scripture themselves and see the beautiful marital design God created for them.
> 
> In my own marriage, I love when my husband gets very rough with me, NOT because I am submissive, which I am in a loving and strong way, but because it DEEPLY arouses me and I am very HD...both of our raw sexual desires come (LOL) out...
> 
> The Whoooole book of Songs of Solomon is about married sex, yes the King had other wives, which is a different topic. The book explains in detail female masturbation, oral sex and marital sex very, very tenderly but graphic.
> 
> 
> I hope I made sense...:scratchhead:



Yeah, it made sense... just not sure what you disagree with me about. You said you disagreed but it's not clear on what point.

I've been in many an online debate about the Scripture verses you mention. I know that many Christians are egalitarian (I am one). 

But you can't deny that the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians take a very "man is the boss" view of marriage.


Anywhoo... I don't want to derail. Just pointing out that not all consent is truly fully informed and freely given. It can be more complex than that. I'm not trying to judge anyone for how they live their lives.


----------



## hambone

Nynaeve said:


> But you can't deny that the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians take a very "man is the boss" view of marriage.


A Christian man who is living by the scripture has a heavy burden placed on him by God.

Done the way it is supposed to be done... shouldn't be any problem for the wife.


----------



## ocotillo

HappyGilmore said:


> I happen to believe that we should call a spade, a spade. MMSLP is merely 24/7 D/s, and I wish that the author of these books, website, and blog would...


I've read that out of curiosity too and don't remember the author advocating any particular style of love making. If he did, I missed it. 

The author is very much into the idea that the primal side of our minds plays a much bigger role in our decision making than we ever realize and basically says the same thing that Nobodyspecial told me today on another thread. --That there are all sorts of subtle ways that a man can lose respect in the eyes of his wife and become about as attractive as an ice cold bowl of lumpy oatmeal in the process.

What my wife found offensive about the book is the idea that it automatically falls upon the man to rise above his base nature and do what's best for the marriage because women are pretty much incapable of it. And that is an idea that is alluded to in Christian theology


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> I really liked the MMSL book. I felt like it tells men to always look their best and have some self respect. Also, the author even said that sometimes women like dominant sex and a man should add this into an arsenal. But I see why women don't like it. A lot of women feel like these types of books advocate manipulation. Because it's telling you want to say or do in certain situations. Not really about being a good person. I understand where they are coming from.
> 
> I once read this book about why men like b!tches or something like that. The book was pretty much giving women a play by play of what to say and do to get men to want to marry them. It wasn't really about being a good person or living with some type character. Just how to attract men. I felt like it was knowledge that could empower women but that a man wouldn't really know if he had a good woman or a bad woman.


I don't have a problem with a book that teaches you that you should be confident. Self-worth is always a good quality. However, I personally see much of the advice given in the book promotes manipulative behavior. And whether a man does it or a woman does it, it's still manipulation, and I see it as disingenuous. 

I have also read part of the "Why Men Like B1tches" book, and I didn't care for it, for the same reasons I don't care for MMSL. In a real marriage, in a real relationship, the manipulation and game playing makes for a fake relationship. I believe in being real, from the beginning. 

MMSL also promotes a D/s type of relationship, which again--call a spade, a spade. And it's fine, as long as one does not try to generalize it to everyone, because it won't work in most relationships.


----------



## Nynaeve

hambone said:


> A Christian man who is living by the scripture has a heavy burden placed on him by God.
> 
> Done the way it is supposed to be done... shouldn't be any problem for the wife.



Oh yeah, it's such a burden to always get your own way.:bsflag:


Yep, just like Jesus said: "come to me all you who are heavily laden and I will lay heavy burdens on you."

:scratchhead:


----------



## HappyGilmore

ocotillo said:


> I've read that out of curiosity too and don't remember the author advocating any particular style of love making. If he did, I missed it.
> 
> The author is very much into the idea that the primal side of our minds plays a much bigger role in our decision making than we ever realize and basically says the same thing that Nobodyspecial told me today on another thread. --That there are all sorts of subtle ways that a man can lose respect in the eyes of his wife and become about as attractive as an ice cold bowl of lumpy oatmeal in the process.
> 
> What my wife found offensive about the book is the idea that it automatically falls upon the man to rise above his base nature and do what's best for the marriage because women are pretty much incapable of it. And that is an idea that is alluded to in Christian theology


Yes, Kay's methodology doesn't advocate for any particular brand of sex act, though he does at times recommend adding "dominant sex." What I am getting at is the relationship aspect of it, D/s relationship, in which one person is in the dominant role, the other in the submissive. Just replace "Captain" with "dominant", and "First officer" with "submissive"--there you have it. And again, it's not my thing, but if it's U.E. McGill's and his wife's thing--more power to them. 

I found the same thing offensive that your wife did--sounds like a bunch of quackery. Of course women are capable of doing what's best for the marriage, we do it all the time. Marriage requires 100% self giving from both parties, and to say that women are somehow defective because they are not mature enough, or have the intestinal fortitude enough is garbage.


----------



## over20

Nynaeve said:


> Yeah, it made sense... just not sure what you disagree with me about. You said you disagreed but it's not clear on what point.
> 
> I've been in many an online debate about the Scripture verses you mention. I know that many Christians are egalitarian (I am one).
> 
> But you can't deny that the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians take a very "man is the boss" view of marriage.
> 
> 
> Anywhoo... I don't want to derail. Just pointing out that not all consent is truly fully informed and freely given. It can be more complex than that. I'm not trying to judge anyone for how they live their lives.


 I disagreed with the point that "millions of Christian women are left with real little choice but to submit to their husbands". Each individual is accountable for their own beliefs and actions in their marriage...no one is FORCING them. Every woman DOES have a choice to reject misinterpreted Scriptural beliefs. 

I think it depends on the circle of Christians and the denomination where one will find "the man is the boss" ideology. I like to say "Loving leader" instead. That is the way God designed it. A loving leader ALWAYS considers his wife's views, ideas and feelings.


Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.


----------



## over20

Nynaeve said:


> Oh yeah, it's such a burden to always get your own way.:bsflag:
> 
> 
> Yep, just like Jesus said: "come to me all you who are heavily laden and I will lay heavy burdens on you."
> 
> :scratchhead:


Now I feel bad, were you misinformed? :scratchhead:

The verse is "Come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I WILL GIVE YOU REST." Matt 11:28



Sorry OP, done with getting of track....just wanted to help clarify.


----------



## hambone

Nynaeve said:


> Oh yeah, it's such a burden to always get your own way.:bsflag:
> 
> 
> Yep, just like Jesus said: "come to me all you who are heavily laden and I will lay heavy burdens on you."
> 
> :scratchhead:


I can see that nobody has properly explained it to you the responsibilities and obligations of a Christian man..... We are accountable to God... It is a heavy burden....


----------



## FalconKing

Nynaeve said:


> I never said no women want that or that no women freely choose it. I left room for exceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I still think that women raised to believe that they might go to hell if they don't submit to their husbands in all things aren't freely choosing that lifestyle. It's essentially coercion. Submit or go to hell. Which would you choose?


Not all Christian women are having sex with their husbands. There are books written by Christian authors that talk about sex and romance in marriage. If most marriages were like you assumed then there wouldn't really be much of a market for that. 









> There's no need to get so defensive. I made no blanket statement. I posted my opinion. Key words "_I think_."
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a lot on this forum. It seems to me that in topics like this people end up discussing D/s relationships almost entirely in terms of kink. I have rarely seen anyone post comments which indicate that they're thinking of it in terms of Christian patriarchy. Christians have their own unique set of buzzwords and catch phrases that they use. The absence of those words and phrases is a pretty good indicator that people don't have a lot of experience with fundies.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a whole different ball game when we're talking about lifestyle choices based on people's preferences vs. lifestyle based on religious beliefs.



My father's a pastor. My grandfather was a pastor. My uncle is a pastor. My grandfather's brother was a pastor. I have never seen any of these men guilt trip or use a religious doctrine to pressure a woman for sex. Truth be told my mother probably wishes my dad wanted sex more. Basically, selfish and manipulative people will use anything to justify getting what they won't. It has little to do with being Christian. But if you are adamant about religion and pressures with regards of women, why don't you go to the Middle East and parts of Africa. There is not a more obvious abuse of power in religion than what's going on over there. Women are being raped by fathers and sons and also force to receive circumcision. There is your real battle. Instead of complaining about some experiences you've had with bossy Christian dudes..


----------



## always_alone

FalconKing said:


> There is your real battle. Instead of complaining about some experiences you've had with bossy Christian dudes..


It is popular to point fingers at the Moslem world, likely because in many countries the misogyny is enshrined in law and often fatal. But Christianity too has a long and strong history of misogyny. It may not seem as obvious in countries with secular law, but the guilt, pressure, and attitudes keeping women "in their place", are still quite prevalent.


----------



## FalconKing

always_alone said:


> It is popular to point fingers at the Moslem world, likely because in many countries the misogyny is enshrined in law and often fatal. But Christianity too has a long and strong history of misogyny. It may not seem as obvious in countries with secular law, but the guilt, pressure, and attitudes keeping women "in their place", are still quite prevalent.



It's not popular, it's obvious. And why didn't you quote the part when I said selfish people will use any kind of authority to get what they want out of others?

It's like this. If you going to complain about organized religion and mistreatment of women, why would you ignore the most severe and obvious examples of it. Why would that not be the forefront? Maybe you don't really care and just trying to justify your bitterness with certain people. 

I'm not talking to you personally. I know this is just your obligatory response because I disagreed with a female poster.....


----------



## jld

FalconKing said:


> If you going to complain about organized religion and mistreatment of women, why would you ignore the most severe and obvious examples of it. Why would that not be the forefront?


I am curious about this, too.


----------



## ocotillo

committed4ever said:


> You can ask 10 fundametalist Christians what submission entails and you will get most likely get 10 radically different answers.


Yes. The U.S. spawned more flavors of Christianity during the 19th century than we can shake a stick at. A couple of them are quite toxic today.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good afternoon all
I think some people (including myself) are uncomfortable with how "consent" works in a religious context. Religious instructions are backed by the power of an omnipotent god, and not infrequently by the threat of eternal damnation. 

While the threat may never be made explicitly, it is lunking in the background. How can you tell if someone consents to a lifestyle out of desire, love, or fear?

Many people are not doubt happy in the sorts of personal relationships endorsed by their religion. It is just difficult for others to be confident of their motivation.


----------



## ocotillo

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> I think some people (including myself) are uncomfortable with how "consent" works in a religious context.


In secular countries, I think it often depends upon the individual. The more authoritarian the religion when it comes to things like, "Male headship," the more you see a demarcation between a core of "True believers" and a larger group who appear to only be there for the social connection. 

I think this became especially apparent with the advent of the internet and people could actually say what was on their mind pretty much anonymously. Websites and discussion boards critical of these religions sprang up like grass.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Nynaeve said:


> My problem with the "man is the head of the household/wife is submissive" dynamic is that most of the time I don't really think the wife is truly freely choosing that dynamic. Most times it is chosen for her by religious and cultural indoctrination.


Who is "freely" choosing anything if we are to believe that the influence of religious and cultural indoctrination overrides that freedom? We're all products of our environment.

I've had women want me to take a more dominant/leadership role than I even desire to have; where the relationship begins to creep me out - as if she's totally incapable and I feel like a father figure. Its not even that uncommon and not necessarily centered on religion. My impression is that they're simply intimidated by life, don't want responsibility for having made a poor decision and lack much faith in their ability to handle things. They want someone else to lead and take control. It relieves their high anxiety level and they're happier. 

I'm not interested in such women because I want a more capable person rather than a child, but regardless, I'm not sure I've ever been in a relationship that was totally equal. I've always felt I've had somewhat of leadership position, an upper hand or final authority... and I've never consciously sought it. Are all the women I've dated also coerced/brainwashed into adopting more submissive roles?

When any woman chooses a man, she is also choosing his degree of dominance - and in my experience, the vast majority prefers to be slightly submissive. It's not something he coerces, but rather that a less dominant man isn't as attractive to her. Who is to say her preference, even influenced by culture/religion, is wrong?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Nynaeve said:


> Oh yeah, it's such a burden to always get your own way.:bsflag:
> 
> :scratchhead:


I'm an atheist and I get his point, so I'm not sure why your response is so flippant.

Leadership and responsibility isn't about getting your own way. The burden is in being able to place the needs of others above yourself for a common end. Choosing not what's best for you, but what's best for them. It's a little too parent/child for me, but the burden is a moral one. When in power, do you think in the interest of others first... or your self-interest? It's rather saying you won't abuse someone who would willingly allow it.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

over20 said:


> Being a Christian I agree and disagree with you. *The relationship between the husband and wife is ideally meant to be a "perfect balance." The husband as "head" is also commanded in Scripture to serve and cherish his wife...even laying down his life for his wife as Christ did for his church...IT IS NOT MEANT FOR THE HUSBAND TO RULE WITH AN IRON FIST.*
> 
> *That being said, the "submissive" role of the wife is meant that she also is to serve, love and cherish her husband..*..the tough part is that each "Christian" couple shouldn't fall into the trap of being skewed by their church leaders or church family/friends...but to read Scripture themselves and see the beautiful marital design God created for them.





committed4ever said:


> I was raised in fundamentalist Christian church and still attend one, along with my H. My H's family was Baptist and church attendance became optional for him and his siblings when they were old enough to stay home unsupervised.
> 
> *You can ask 10 fundametalist Christians what submission entails and you will get most likely get 10 radically different answers. *But mostly I think the kind of submission that Nyaneave references went out in the Christian world around the same time it did in the secular world. Now it is more like what Over20 references. And our Pastor ALWAYS emphasizes that scripture that says "yeah, all of you be subject to one another." * Yes women are taught to respect their husbands and his leadership of the home, IF IT IS GODLY LEADERSHIP. And the husbands are taught that God will often speak through your wife so LISTEN TO HER*.
> 
> Now all that being said, d/s is MY CHOICE for our marriage. My H has been a very take charge and persuasive man alll of our marriage. This is what I PREFER so it is ME who wants to take it to an even higher level. We pretty much have our own version of it but I have NEVER felt like I didn't have a choice in what I choose to go along with. Granted my husband is much more alpha than anything else, and I know there are some things he is just not willing to put up with in marriage. But I'm not interested in being that type of wife anyway.


 With all this talk about the "Head of the House".. I have to put this thread on here.. it explains in such a beautiful light what those scriptures were SUPPOSED TO MEAN...One doesn't even have to be a believer to "feel" the spirit of what was intended.....or so I would think..








http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-spirituality/61081-head-house.html

Personally.. I am no longer a christian (but many of our friends are)....and even though I have a naturally more dominate personality over my husband.. HE IS the backbone... he upholds our family...he supports 8 of us (7 now at home)... we live a very traditional lifestyle.. by choice..this has blessed our family... 

I can tell you this.. I'd probably be a fire breathing dragon with my personality if I didn't RESPECT HIM.. ... he would even say I am not exactly the submissive type.. but because he treats me so well (and by the way he was never a christian, could care less about religion).....why would I not want to honor him... this just flows when you feel greatly cared for...this is how it should be...

I can recall 3 times in our 33 yrs together (married 25) that I defied him... just told him he worries too much, I wanted to do it *my way..*.. and all 3 of them came back to BITE MY A$$... ..he had some enjoyment telling me "I told you so!".. and yep.. I deserved it !...

THE MAN WAS RIGHT....I've learned.. I'm a pretty smart woman but when my H wants to put his foot down... I'm gonna listen.. because I KNOW he has my welfare & our children's at heart...this is what we need to look at.. 

One doesn't have to be of any faith or belief to understand those dynamics.. it's RESPECT, it's feeling loved and you want to give back..... and others can laugh but my view of a good wife is the *Proverbs 31 woman*.. I have always been inspired growing up reading those pages.... the only thing I think is missing is... not mentioning giving your husband lots of sex, needed some "song of solomon's" verses thrown in there! 

This by NO means = I would condone male chauvinistic behaviors on ANY LEVEL for any reason, whether using scripture (selfish people will twist anything for their own gain...they are in the church pew as well as the Bar)...or just someone with narcissist tendencies... it's ugly no matter where it comes from.. 

I have Athol Kay's book..."*Married man's sex life Primer*" ...(pure curiosity again).. it didn't offend me at all.. (of course I only read a few chapters of it).. if anything, in our past, my H would have been FAR BETTER off reading a book *like that* over some stupid article written by a woman (or maybe a man?) online suggesting men need to do more housework/ do the dishes... sorry but that was not what *I* needed to get aroused.. a book such as Athol Kays would not at all hurt men LIKE MINE.. so there is an audience for certain types... 

It's funny, some are calling these books manipulative / game playing.....yet ... in the same breath... many would also BULK against transparency (with that emotional vulnerability)..... well you know what I think.. it's gonna be one or the other...if you have a spouse you can't open up to, dig deep to the issues that are hurting ....that they would be so offended by your needs or suggesting different things, pushing you aside or feeling you are "weak".... what the hell are you supposed to do?? 

*I only see 3 options here..*

1. drown yourself in resentment...and stay miserable...

2. Dare to have those deep discussions (transparency) ....or 

3. (Gleam some good advice/ nuggets from these books)...find ways to improve yourself, do your own thing....make a change, get creative .... you might just get a response out of your spouse !! I just don't see anything wrong with that at all...maybe that will open up the Transparency on her end! 

I won't knock such books, I also have "*Why men marry Bi*ches"*.. in my opinion.. this is a very good book for a passive wall flower female to understand she needs to be more assertive and care about herself, don't cater too much if she is being taken advantage of ...men want a confidence woman ...(it's the equivalent to "No More Mr Nice Guy"... It has it's place.. I liked the book..


----------



## always_alone

FalconKing said:


> It's like this. If you going to complain about organized religion and mistreatment of women, why would you ignore the most severe and obvious examples of it. Why would that not be the forefront? Maybe you don't really care and just trying to justify your bitterness with certain people.
> 
> I'm not talking to you personally. I know this is just your obligatory response because I disagreed with a female poster.....




I am not ignoring anything, nor am I stepping in to "defend" someone who doesn't need defending. I'm merely responding to a very specific comparison between Christianity and Islam that I happen to disagree with: Islam isn't at its heart any more sexist than Christianity --although, unfortunately, its misogyny is supported by law, whereas the Christian world now typically separates church and government.


----------



## jasmine9

I would like it rough but hubby isn't into that. Sometimes I bite by accident and that hurts him. I like when he is aggressive and takes over.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Only on TAM could a topic titled Women and Rough Sex devolve in to a discussion about God and religion. Can we get back to the whips and chains or move this to Off Topic? Some of us don't want to read about the scripture when we are trying to plan our weekend bedroom activities.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Only on TAM could a topic titled Women and Rough Sex devolve in to a discussion about God and religion. Can we get back to the whips and chains or move this to Off Topic? Some of us don't want to read about the scripture when we are trying to plan our weekend bedroom activities.


Quantum physics and c*ckrings. Wysh is brilliant.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Quantum physics and c*ckrings. Wysh is brilliant.


Yeah, I know we often get off topic in these types of threads but this is ridiculous. Take your pulpit elsewhere and leave this discussion alone. Jesus.


----------



## samyeagar

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.…

One of my favorite bedtime bible stories 

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Yeah, I know we often get off topic in these types of threads but this is ridiculous. Take your pulpit elsewhere and leave this discussion alone. Jesus.


Woah woah... I'm not sermonizing.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Others are.


Oh ok... indefinite "your". I read it as "your pulpit", specifying me. Ahhhh... English.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Back on topic...

I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Woah woah... I'm not sermonizing.


I didn't mean "you" as in you. It is an interesting topic for sure and perhaps somebody would like to start this discussion in Politics and Religion. I would love to read that, just not when I'm reading about being throw all over the bed.


----------



## samyeagar

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


I think in part it goes hand in hand with the myth that all women need the love and connection in order to feel like having sex, so that translates into them also wanting to have lovey sex...quietly, I suspect that most women are more than capable of having and enjoying sex without the love and connection...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

committed4ever said:


> Oops. Ok. Sorry about the snark.


I'm sorry too that my post most likely came off b!tchy. I did not mean that. As I said, it is a fascinating discussion, just not in this topic. Now if it's "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God" in the bedroom, that's one thing but leave Matthew, Mark, Luke and John out of this.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I didn't mean "you" as in you. It is an interesting topic for sure and perhaps somebody would like to start this discussion in Politics and Religion. I would love to read that, just not when I'm reading about being throw all over the bed.


I know right! Totally c*ckblocking a much more interesting subject.


----------



## hambone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


I wonder if it has anything to do with a lot of women wanting to be perceived as "good girls"...

And, "good girls" would never want that.


My experience when I was dating (I've been married 22 years) was that most women don't want to reveal their deepest desires for fear that you might think less of them..

And perhaps they are correct about some men.. Others, like me, would think more of them!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


That is pretty easy to answer. It is because of the shame girls and women are taught about sex. Admitting they like really physical sex is seen as something "easy" women do, so good girls don't admit to it. They might secretly want it, but they would never admit it. 

The good thing is that times are really changing and have been for about three decades but many girls are still taught that. Also, womens enjoyment of sex is a recent phenomenon as in they care about their orgasms. In the past, only a mans mattered. Just to give you an idea, I'm 42 and grew up being taught by my mother that and I quote "Sex is something you do for men". What a terrible message and something I totally rejected. But it was the message of the day for many, many women and still is for plenty.


----------



## samyeagar

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'm sorry too that my post most likely came off b!tchy. I did not mean that. As I said, it is a fascinating discussion, just not in this topic. Now if it's "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God" in the bedroom, that's one thing but leave *Matthew, Mark, Luke and John* out of this.


Though I'm sure some women would mind them being IN it either...


----------



## samyeagar

committed4ever said:


> Not me. I'm kind of surprised you would say that, Sam.


I do honestly think that men and women are far more alike when it comes to sexual motivation, contrary to popular belief. Of course there are always exceptions, but certainly my own personal experiences have not matched up with the stereotypes.


----------



## 2ntnuf

"It's all fun and games until someone gets an eye put out".


----------



## TiggyBlue

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


I think part of the reason is that society sells hard that love and emotion is feminine and rough and physical is masculine.


----------



## ocotillo

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly....


I don't know what excuses LD men give, but if an LD women says that women need candlelight dinners, violin music and tender love making, it's easy to jump to a wrong conclusion.


----------



## Nynaeve

over20 said:


> Now I feel bad, were you misinformed? :scratchhead:
> 
> The verse is "Come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I WILL GIVE YOU REST." Matt 11:28
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry OP, done with getting of track....just wanted to help clarify.



Yes, I know. I intentionally misquoted. I was being sarcastic.


----------



## Nynaeve

FalconKing said:


> Not all Christian women are having sex with their husbands. There are books written by Christian authors that talk about sex and romance in marriage. If most marriages were like you assumed then there wouldn't really be much of a market for that.


I didn't say most marriages were anything.

I didn't even say most Christian marriages were anything.

I said that most marriages IN WHICH wives submit in EVERYTHING to their husbands, those women did not freely choose that.

Please stop being defensive long enough to read what I've actually written.












> My father's a pastor. My grandfather was a pastor. My uncle is a pastor. My grandfather's brother was a pastor.


Hey, me too. Add several more uncles, a couple aunts and lots of cousins. 




> I have never seen any of these men guilt trip or use a religious doctrine to pressure a woman for sex.


Do you honestly think you'd have seen it if it were happening? I mean, unless you're in the bedroom with your grandparents....




> Truth be told my mother probably wishes my dad wanted sex more. Basically, selfish and manipulative people will use anything to justify getting what they won't. It has little to do with being Christian.


Did you miss the part where I said I'm a Christian, too?

I never said Christianity causes this dynamic.

I agree with you that it is selfish and manipulative people.

That doesn't mean that it isn't prevalent in certain sectors of Christianity.




> But if you are adamant about religion and pressures with regards of women, why don't you go to the Middle East and parts of Africa. There is not a more obvious abuse of power in religion than what's going on over there. Women are being raped by fathers and sons and also force to receive circumcision. There is your real battle. Instead of complaining about some experiences you've had with bossy Christian dudes..


I'm Christian. I'm involved in several groups who advocate for gender equality in Christianity in the whole world.

I really think you've jumped to some false conclusions because you got too defensive and didn't really read what I've written.


I'm sorry for continuing the derail. I just felt it was only fair to address this post.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

My thinking that it’s an evolutionary holdover.

Primitive man didn't exactly court women and “nice guys” wouldn't stand a chance of mating, they’d get beating up by other males. Women didn't exactly pick their mates either, the strongest males took what they wanted. I image that the females that resisted too much didn't fare well while the ones that tolerated or even enjoyed it past on whatever traits those were to their offspring. Eventually the females instinctively wanted to be dominated by what would be “alpha” males (before society) because it provided safety and gave their children a better chance of survival. Women where basically property and treated as such. Considering how women have been treated historically I don't think this is much of a stretch.

Of course society changes faster than biology so we still retain to some degree our primitive drives that may no longer help us in this day and age but they still influence our emotions. Women still chase “bad boys” because at one time those were alpha traits that did well a looooong time ago but today, not so much. There’s no longer an advantage of being a big brute but our primitive minds don’t know that.

That’s what I think anyway, I could be completely wrong but it seems to make sense to me. 

TL;DR: Women like it rough because at one time ALL sex was rough. Men got soft over the years.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I wanna read more rough sex stories. This isn't very enjoyable.


----------



## samyeagar

2ntnuf said:


> I wanna read more rough sex stories. This isn't very enjoyable.


She hasn't shaved in a week, or used any lotion for a month...


----------



## HappyGilmore

hambone said:


> I wonder if it has anything to do with a lot of women wanting to be perceived as "good girls"...
> 
> And, "good girls" would never want that.
> 
> 
> My experience when I was dating (I've been married 22 years) was that most women don't want to reveal their deepest desires for fear that you might think less of them..
> 
> And perhaps they are correct about some men.. Others, like me, would think more of them!


Such hang-ups and insecurities that some women have! I have to say that I've never identified myself as a "good girl," nor have I called myself a "bad girl." I suppose I've just gone through my life not caring what other people think, because I am satisfied being simply a woman--with all my quirks, complexities, likes, and dislikes. I am not a good girl on the street and a bad girl in the bedroom, I am just who I am, and I wish that more women could feel secure in themselves. I believe it is a longstanding meme (not the internet variety) that has lead to women being dichotomized as "bad" vs "good", "wh0re" vs "virgin." And that is embedded deep within our collective consciousness. If only we could shake off those chains, and realize that people--men and women--exist in shades of gray (NOT a reference to those deplorable books). 

So, expressing to my husband that I would like to play a little rough tonight (whomever is the giver and whomever is the receiver, depends on the mood) has never felt uncomfortable. There has never been a problem with expressing what I want and how I want it. And I don't feel guilty about it, either.


----------



## always_alone

ArmyofJuan said:


> My thinking that it’s an evolutionary holdover.
> 
> Primitive man didn't exactly court women and “nice guys” wouldn't stand a chance of mating, they’d get beating up by other males. Women didn't exactly pick their mates either, the strongest males took what they wanted. I image that the females that resisted too much didn't fare well while the ones that tolerated or even enjoyed it past on whatever traits those were to their offspring.


Oh, please, no more made-up pseudoscience masquerading as explanation! This is not how it ever was, and is not how it is in the animal kingdom either.


----------



## WyshIknew

ArmyofJuan said:


> My thinking that it’s an evolutionary holdover.
> 
> Primitive man didn't exactly court women and “nice guys” wouldn't stand a chance of mating, they’d get beating up by other males. Women didn't exactly pick their mates either, the strongest males took what they wanted. I image that the females that resisted too much didn't fare well while the ones that tolerated or even enjoyed it past on whatever traits those were to their offspring. Eventually the females instinctively wanted to be dominated by what would be “alpha” males (before society) because it provided safety and gave their children a better chance of survival. Women where basically property and treated as such. Considering how women have been treated historically I don't think this is much of a stretch.
> 
> Of course society changes faster than biology so we still retain to some degree our primitive drives that may no longer help us in this day and age but they still influence our emotions. Women still chase “bad boys” because at one time those were alpha traits that did well a looooong time ago but today, not so much. There’s no longer an advantage of being a big brute but our primitive minds don’t know that.
> 
> That’s what I think anyway, I could be completely wrong but it seems to make sense to me.
> 
> TL;DR: Women like it rough because at one time ALL sex was rough. *Men got soft over the years*.


Dang, it only takes me a few minutes.


----------



## WyshIknew

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Only on TAM could a topic titled Women and Rough Sex devolve in to a discussion about God and religion. Can we get back to the whips and chains or move this to Off Topic? Some of us don't want to read about the scripture when we are trying to plan our weekend bedroom activities.


Amen.


----------



## 2ntnuf

samyeagar said:


> She hasn't shaved in a week, or used any lotion for a month...


Then I guess you'll have to give her a spankin'?  

Then, you can get her to shave and wash in front of you. Yeah, all of it. Oh boy. I have to go.......


----------



## WyshIknew

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That is pretty easy to answer. It is because of the shame girls and women are taught about sex. Admitting they like really physical sex is seen as something "easy" women do, so good girls don't admit to it. They might secretly want it, but they would never admit it.
> 
> The good thing is that times are really changing and have been for about three decades but many girls are still taught that. Also, womens enjoyment of sex is a recent phenomenon as in they care about their orgasms. In the past, only a mans mattered. Just to give you an idea, I'm 42 and grew up being taught by my mother that and I quote* "Sex is something you do for men". *What a terrible message and something I totally rejected. But it was the message of the day for many, many women and still is for plenty.



Yep, this was me. Even into my teens I thought that women only had sex to please their husbands, keep their boyfriends or to have babies unless they were nymphomaniacs. It wasn't until my twenties that I realised that this could not be true.

Sex Ed of that time didn't help as it was very much "plug A fits into socket B and BAZINGA.


----------



## FalconKing

Nynaeve said:


> I didn't say most marriages were anything.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even say most Christian marriages were anything.
> 
> 
> 
> I said that most marriages IN WHICH wives submit in EVERYTHING to their husbands, those women did not freely choose that.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop being defensive long enough to read what I've actually written.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, me too. Add several more uncles, a couple aunts and lots of cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think you'd have seen it if it were happening? I mean, unless you're in the bedroom with your grandparents....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the part where I said I'm a Christian, too?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said Christianity causes this dynamic.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you that it is selfish and manipulative people.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean that it isn't prevalent in certain sectors of Christianity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm Christian. I'm involved in several groups who advocate for gender equality in Christianity in the whole world.
> 
> 
> 
> I really think you've jumped to some false conclusions because you got too defensive and didn't really read what I've written.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for continuing the derail. I just felt it was only fair to address this post.



I read everything you've written. Even the sarcasm about men and their position of power in marriage. You were the first to bring religion to this topic. Now you are saying that it's just women in general who submit to their husbands that is the problem. I told you about my personal experiences and you are even trying to debate me on that. I know you are trying to make a point about women being strong armed in marriages. But you are all over the place. And you call me defensive when you yourself make a lot of assumptions about women in marriages. 

And what sectors is this prevalent in? Some cult leader that takes multiple wives? 

You wouldn't even have posted here had a male poster not posted about being dominant in his marriage. You came out of left with this and have been harping on it. This is a topic about women who like rough sex and why they like it. You chose THIS as your platform?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *Therealbrighteyes said* : *I'm 42 and grew up being taught by my mother that and I quote "Sex is something you do for men".*


I cant say I have ever been indoctrinated by this message.. never felt this at all.. I knew sex would be the highlight of a passionate Romantic love filled relationship.. I dreamed of it.. someday... I knew exactly what I wanted...and didn't want.. 



HappyGilmore said:


> Such hang-ups and insecurities that some women have! I have to say that I've never identified myself as a "good girl," nor have I called myself a "bad girl." I suppose *I've just gone through my life not caring what other people think, because I am satisfied being simply a woman--with all my quirks, complexities, likes, and dislikes. I am not a good girl on the street and a bad girl in the bedroom, I am just who I am, and I wish that more women could feel secure in themselves. I believe it is a longstanding meme (not the internet variety) that has lead to women being dichotomized as "bad" vs "good", "wh0re" vs "virgin." And that is embedded deep within our collective consciousness. If only we could shake off those chains, and realize that people--men and women--exist in shades of gray (NOT a reference to those deplorable books). *
> 
> So, expressing to my husband that I would like to play a little rough tonight (whomever is the giver and whomever is the receiver, depends on the mood) has never felt uncomfortable. There has never been a problem with expressing what I want and how I want it. And I don't feel guilty about it, either.


Another perspective here...You would likely call the books I read in my youth on "waiting" for the right man, someone who wants to marry us.. deplorable .....

I can only speak for myself ... my views are not popular today.....I can't say I cared all that much what *others *thought ...this would not have been my primary focus... I was always an independent thinker -even if a little religious back then...I weighed all sides to an issue (including sex & it's place) & have a very feisty spirit to argue/debate when I see another side ... 

What I cared about MOST was myself... (maybe this sounds selfish?) ....

I had plans for my future , I was young and I wanted the whole package.... I wanted Lasting love.. I wanted commitment with my pleasure.. I was bound & determined to wait for a good man.. Bad boys need not apply... I didn't want a Boyfriend who could screw a variety of women and walk away (this is MY definition of a bad boy...one who could separate love & sex, compartmentalize it).... We all have our preferences.

My husband is the type of man who wanted to share his 1sts with someone he loved.. we were so on the same page in this... we see that as beautiful....

Unfortunately there was a few side effects to this... I did look at certain acts as dirty due to seeing how they were portrayed in porn..(curious we watched a little in our youth)... seeing broken relationships everywhere & it's after effects ...how people used sex so easily... and it did rip hearts open... a close friend ...used , tossed aside, her baby (who we call our 6th son) never met his biological father ... that was very ugly to me and it left deep scars on my friend -she never trusted men again...

When I attach myself to a man, I want it to mean something, I want to be able to lay in his arms & discuss our future -not with him cringing.. and thinking "I need to get out of here"......there are some things in life I feel very strongly about, this was one of those...

This , shouldn't however.. keep us from getting very dirty , as transparent as I am emotionally.. just as Physically...with the one who loves us, is committed to us.. ..

I am all for being "the Lady in the streets and the Freak in the sheets" with the one who has given me his heart ... there is great security and freedom in this.... just as many women want a Gentleman but also some of that Bad Boy in bed!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

The whole "don't give the milk for free" thing is part of what I've never understood. If sex is worth something to you, then you're not giving it away for free, you're getting some in return.

Only with a latent belief that doesn't value sex can giving sex and getting sex be thought of as giving something for free. His sex has no value, and you're actually exchanging your sex for his commitment.

I'd argue this is exactly the sort of perversion of female sexuality that our culture has encouraged. To my mind sex is worth sex, and commitment is worth commitment.


----------



## treyvion

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The whole "don't give the milk for free" thing is part of what I've never understood. If sex is worth something to you, then you're not giving it away for free, you're getting some in return.
> 
> Only with a latent belief that doesn't value sex can giving sex and getting sex be thought of as giving something for free. His sex has no value, and you're actually exchanging your sex for his commitment.
> 
> I'd argue this is exactly the sort of perversion of female sexuality that our culture has encouraged. To my mind sex is worth sex, and commitment is worth commitment.


You sure sex isn't worth an expensive handbag and designer shoes? What about a car note and a phone bill? 

I agree with you. My sex should be worth her sex and my commitment should be worth her commitment.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

WyshIknew said:


> Yep, this was me. Even into my teens I thought that women only had sex to please their husbands, keep their boyfriends or to have babies unless they were nymphomaniacs. It wasn't until my twenties that I realised that this could not be true.
> 
> Sex Ed of that time didn't help as it was very much "plug A fits into socket B and BAZINGA.


Boy were we taught similar things. My mother was a much older mom (I'm adopted) and for a while I thought that her attitude might have something to do with that. Oddly, I saw the same beliefs passed on to my friends from mothers who came of age in the 1960's, the era of sexual liberation. Most of us have managed to overcome the message that was pounded in to our heads but I still have friends who will only have missionary style sex because anything else makes them a s!ut. They also pass that message on to their daughters. :banghead:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lila said:


> I think you misunderstood where I was going with the saying. The point is not about using sex as a currency, it's about choosing your partners wisely so that we can unleash the inner sex vixen without being judged as slvts.


Please don't take me as criticizing you. I'm more airing my thoughts openly and your post was the trigger of my thought.

The problem then is two fold. That you feel you'd be judged as a sl*t for having sex (describing it as "inner vixen" has a "dirty secret" feel to me that is again, sort of the issue I'm trying to describe), and ... that someone does judge you. There's no inner vixen. That's just "woman absent being judged".

I guess what I'm trying to describe is like this: when someone calls me a sl*t (and the word probably fits me as much as it would anyone), I don't really care. It's literally one of those things that just has no sting to me. Yep, I like sex and I have it when I want to, with who I want to, as often as I want to. It's easy for me to do so, because while many women will scowl, the rest of the world says "high five"; "attaboy".

Women get kudos for denying themselves and men, and shame for pursuing sex - and I think it's wrong. No inner vixen. Just vixen. Just woman. I hate that we have to talk about it as if its taboo. "inner vixen", "dirty girl", "bad girl"... etc. Honestly, I think most women are beholden to those concepts to some degree... so much so that *those* thoughts, become *your* thoughts. Like men and the need to act "manly".


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SimplyAmorous said:


> I cant say I have ever been indoctrinated by this message.. never felt this at all.. I knew sex would be the highlight of a passionate Romantic love filled relationship.. I dreamed of it.. someday... I knew exactly what I wanted...and didn't want..
> 
> 
> 
> Another perspective here...You would likely call the books I read in my youth on "waiting" for the right man, someone who wants to marry us.. deplorable .....
> 
> I can only speak for myself ... my views are not popular today.....I can't say I cared all that much what *others *thought ...this would not have been my primary focus... I was always an independent thinker -even if a little religious back then...I weighed all sides to an issue (including sex & it's place) & have a very feisty spirit to argue/debate when I see another side ...
> 
> What I cared about MOST was myself... (maybe this sounds selfish?) ....
> 
> I had plans for my future , I was young and I wanted the whole package.... I wanted Lasting love.. I wanted commitment with my pleasure.. I was bound & determined to wait for a good man.. Bad boys need not apply... I didn't want a Boyfriend who could screw a variety of women and walk away (this is MY definition of a bad boy...one who could separate love & sex, compartmentalize it).... We all have our preferences.
> 
> My husband is the type of man who wanted to share his 1sts with someone he loved.. we were so on the same page in this... we see that as beautiful....
> 
> Unfortunately there was a few side effects to this... I did look at certain acts as dirty due to seeing how they were portrayed in porn..(curious we watched a little in our youth)... seeing broken relationships everywhere & it's after effects ...how people used sex so easily... and it did rip hearts open... a close friend ...used , tossed aside, her baby (who we call our 6th son) never met his biological father ... that was very ugly to me and it left deep scars on my friend -she never trusted men again...
> 
> When I attach myself to a man, I want it to mean something, I want to be able to lay in his arms & discuss our future -not with him cringing.. and thinking "I need to get out of here"......there are some things in life I feel very strongly about, this was one of those...
> 
> This , shouldn't however.. keep us from getting very dirty , as transparent as I am emotionally.. just as Physically...with the one who loves us, is committed to us.. ..
> 
> I am all for being "the Lady in the streets and the Freak in the sheets" with the one who has given me his heart ... there is great security and freedom in this.... just as many women want a Gentleman but also some of that Bad Boy in bed!


Here are my thoughts on this. I think that no woman should be shamed for her decision to have sex (or not) and with whom. It shouldn't matter if it leads to marriage, a long term relationship, a short term relationship or no relationship at all. You and I are very different in many ways and I respect that you waited because it was the right choice _for you_. You set your terms and boundaries and stood by them. On the flip side, I made a different choice that was right _for me_. 

Where I get upset/sad/frustrated is when women are ridiculed because their sex lives don't line up with _others_ values. I can't stand the word s!ut. It is a terrible term assigned to women who make personal decisions about their sexuality with different partners. Not surprisingly, there is no derogatory term used for virgins whatsoever. Virgins do however get questioned about if they have sexual hangups or "not found the right man" It's all so disheartening and only adds to the shaming women feel regarding sex.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The whole "don't give the milk for free" thing is part of what I've never understood. If sex is worth something to you, then you're not giving it away for free, you're getting some in return.
> 
> Only with a latent belief that doesn't value sex can giving sex and getting sex be thought of as giving something for free. His sex has no value, and you're actually exchanging your sex for his commitment.
> 
> I'd argue this is exactly the sort of perversion of female sexuality that our culture has encouraged. To my mind sex is worth sex, and commitment is worth commitment.


That saying is part and parcel with the entire mentality that sex is something women "give", an offering of sorts. It is deeply misogynistic and harkens back to the Victorian Era when a woman was prohibited from wanting sex or enjoying it.


----------



## heartsbeating

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Where I get upset/sad/frustrated is when women are ridiculed because their sex lives don't line up with _others_ values. I can't stand the word s!ut. It is a terrible term assigned to women who make personal decisions about their sexuality with different partners. Not surprisingly, there is no derogatory term used for virgins whatsoever. Virgins do however get questioned about if they have sexual hangups or "not found the right man" It's all so disheartening and only adds to the shaming women feel regarding sex.


Well said.


----------



## samyeagar

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That saying is part and parcel with the entire mentality that sex is something women "give", an offering of sorts. It is deeply misogynistic and harkens back to the Victorian Era when a woman was prohibited from wanting sex or enjoying it.


I see it also part in parcel with the mentality that sex is a commodity. It is a statement repeated by women with the intent in part to manipulate men into commitment. He'll never buy the cow if he can get the milk for free...the cow being the relationship and the milk being sex.


----------



## heartsbeating

My mother gave me a short talk around 'your body is a temple'. It was perhaps cheesy but the message was to respect myself - not in terms of waiting for marriage, not meaning that sex was something to give, but rather to walk my own path instead of someone else's ideals. She also shared that she felt sex was overrated and will be the first to admit that she's a prude. Meanwhile, I was listening to a lot of Prince lol and established that sex and fantasy wasn't something to be ashamed of yet I also felt that for me, it had to be with someone I gave a damn about and in return, who gave a damn about me. When I was 18, I bought my first corset and suspenders as way of experimenting with my sensuality. My mother was with me at the time and had never bought or worn lingerie herself. Knowing how she viewed sex, I felt a little embarrassed but she didn't question me.

My husband was suspended from a catholic school because he laminated a wrapped condom to the front of his school book in protest that they weren't allowed to discuss sex.


----------



## heartsbeating

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Boy were we taught similar things. My mother was a much older mom (I'm adopted) and for a while I thought that her attitude might have something to do with that. Oddly, I saw the same beliefs passed on to my friends from mothers who came of age in the 1960's, the era of sexual liberation. Most of us have managed to overcome the message that was pounded in to our heads but I still have friends who will only have missionary style sex because anything else makes them a s!ut. They also pass that message on to their daughters. :banghead:


This is sad. 

The friends I'm closest with are quite open about sex and have fun with it. In the past, I've felt the discomfort of other women when anything remotely to do with sex or sexuality has been mentioned.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

heartsbeating said:


> My mother gave me a short talk around 'your body is a temple'. It was perhaps cheesy but the message was to respect myself - not in terms of waiting for marriage, not meaning that sex was something to give, but rather to walk my own path instead of someone else's ideals.


That is a wonderful message.


----------



## GettingIt_2

Wow, I've been on vacation all week, and I see this thread is still going strong. Awesome!



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


I can't speak for other women, but for me it wasn't any sense of shame around my sexuality, or my drive, or how many men I had sex with and under what circumstances. If anything, I was taught to flaunt my sexuality, to enjoy it. The years I experimented with sex were the years the likes of Susie Bright were on the reading list for classes I was taking and the years when no one whose opinion I cared about judged me for my behavior. Ah, college . . . 

However, _power_ in a relationship was another matter. To want a man to dominate me was the shameful desire. Rough sex and a little bondagewas one thing . . . but a full on 24/7 D/s kink? The masochistic streak? To admit that I needed _to be made _to feel submissive to be sexually attracted to my husband? Forget it. That was a betrayal to my gender. 

I felt like I had to make it clear that, while I liked being dominated in bed, I was not going to give in otherwise. I became a master of dominating my husband _outside_ the bedroom. This resulted in not much happening _in_ the bedroom. I was miserable because I didn't respect or feel attracted to my husband, and he was miserable because I was b!tchy and never in the mood for sex. 

It wasn't until I decided to stop being ashamed of my desire to submit to my husband that I could 1) Talk to him about it and 2) Start to experiment with it. 

I don't know, perhaps it has something to do with being in my 40's. I feel much more like *I* own my sexuality--I owe nothing to my gender or society at large when it comes to sexual relations between me and my partner. If like him to rape me, it doesn't mean I think rape is okay. If I like him to physically punish me until I cry, it doesn't mean that I think abuse is okay. I now very easily leave gender politics (all politics, really) at my bedroom door. I think it's been a longer journey for my husband, in many ways. Like me, he has a lot of conditioning to overcome, and it is me that pushes his boundaries more often than the other way around. 

So to answer your question, Dvls, I do think there is a "message distortion," but that it doesn't necessarily have the same source for all women who are afraid to be open about their desire for rough sex or domination from their partners.


----------



## Holland

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I want to know why I feel like men (or I) receive the message that women want lovey sex predominantly, but in actuality, the majority quietly prefers rough/physical sex. What do you think is responsible for the message distortion? Or do you even believe one exists?


I think the confusion is because men seek advice about women's sexuality from men instead of asking or discussing it with women. Take this place for eg, how often are women told they are outliers f they enjoy sex, that they are wrong or lying when they say they like sex. There are men here that still even in 2014 think that only men are visual, that women need love to have sex, that women need romance and flowers. Men here give the most outdated advice and have terribly outdated opinions on women's sexuality.

If men want to learn more and understand women's sexuality they need to open their minds and talk to women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyshIknew

Holland said:


> I think the confusion is because men seek advice about women's sexuality from men instead of asking or discussing it with women. Take this place for eg, how often are women told they are outliers f they enjoy sex, that they are wrong or lying when they say they like sex. There are men here that still even in 2014 think that only men are visual, that women need love to have sex, that women need romance and flowers. Men here give the most outdated advice and have terribly outdated opinions on women's sexuality.
> 
> If men want to learn more and understand women's sexuality they need to open their minds and talk to women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is where I feel quite blessed compared to some. My wife has never been backward in telling me what she wants.


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## samyeagar

Holland said:


> I think the confusion is because men seek advice about women's sexuality from men instead of asking or discussing it with women. Take this place for eg, how often are women told they are outliers f they enjoy sex, that they are wrong or lying when they say they like sex. There are men here that still even in 2014 think that only men are visual, that women need love to have sex, that women need romance and flowers. Men here give the most outdated advice and have terribly outdated opinions on women's sexuality.
> 
> If men want to learn more and understand women's sexuality they need to open their minds and talk to women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And there are plenty of women here and else where that get their advice on men from other women and women's magazines...who in 2014 still believe men are only visual, and as long as you feed them and have sex with them, they will be and should he happy husbands with no complaints...

People, men and women both, really need to start opening their eyes, and paying attention to what is actually in front of them, what they see with their own eyes instead of blindly believing what "they" say...the problem is, many people would rather let others do their thinking for them...it's just easier that way...


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## Therealbrighteyes

samyeagar said:


> And there are plenty of women here and else where that get their advice on men from other women and women's magazines...who in 2014 still believe men are only visual, and as long as you feed them and have sex with them, they will be and should he happy husbands with no complaints...


To be fair, there are about a dozen men on TAM who have said exactly this. Maybe they were trying to be flippant or funny but the message sure was "feed us, screw us, leave us alone".


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## HappyGilmore

SimplyAmorous said:


> I cant say I have ever been indoctrinated by this message.. never felt this at all.. I knew sex would be the highlight of a passionate Romantic love filled relationship.. I dreamed of it.. someday... I knew exactly what I wanted...and didn't want..
> 
> 
> 
> Another perspective here...You would likely call the books I read in my youth on "waiting" for the right man, someone who wants to marry us.. deplorable .....
> *No, only the books I referenced, simply because they are so poorly written as to be nearly unreadable (except when I've been tipsy, then they're just funny). Will someone please contact Anne Rice so she can do a complete overhaul on those novels, please?
> In all seriousness, I have no problem waiting for the right man, because I believe men and women deserve to be in good relationships where they can feel safe to express their sexuality.*
> 
> I can only speak for myself ... my views are not popular today.....I can't say I cared all that much what *others *thought ...this would not have been my primary focus... I was always an independent thinker -even if a little religious back then...I weighed all sides to an issue (including sex & it's place) & have a very feisty spirit to argue/debate when I see another side ...
> 
> What I cared about MOST was myself... (maybe this sounds selfish?) ....
> 
> I had plans for my future , I was young and I wanted the whole package.... I wanted Lasting love.. I wanted commitment with my pleasure.. I was bound & determined to wait for a good man.. Bad boys need not apply... I didn't want a Boyfriend who could screw a variety of women and walk away (this is MY definition of a bad boy...one who could separate love & sex, compartmentalize it).... We all have our preferences.
> *I do not prefer this behavior, either. Waiting for a good man is not the same thing as having inhibitions. My husband had a few more sexual partners before me then I did (he's never been a playboy or man-slvt, just been with a few more people than I). However, I have always been less inhibited sexually than him. It has taken quite a bit to bring out the wild sexual animal within him, to help him shed some of his own hang ups. He was even afraid to talk dirty in the bedroom. It has been only recently that I've been able to get him to do so, and I don't think he's ever going to use the "f-word" with me. One does not need to have sex with many partners in order to be less inhibited, and having many partners does NOT mean that one is sexually free.*
> 
> My husband is the type of man who wanted to share his 1sts with someone he loved.. we were so on the same page in this... we see that as beautiful....
> *Nothing wrong with this, at all. It does not imply hang-ups or sexual inhibitions. All it says is that you love each other very much and wanted to share your "firsts." *
> 
> Unfortunately there was a few side effects to this... I did look at certain acts as dirty due to seeing how they were portrayed in porn..(curious we watched a little in our youth)... seeing broken relationships everywhere & it's after effects ...how people used sex so easily... and it did rip hearts open... a close friend ...used , tossed aside, her baby (who we call our 6th son) never met his biological father ... that was very ugly to me and it left deep scars on my friend -she never trusted men again...
> *Very sad. Sex is a powerful thing, and can be misused.*
> 
> When I attach myself to a man, I want it to mean something, I want to be able to lay in his arms & discuss our future -not with him cringing.. and thinking "I need to get out of here"......there are some things in life I feel very strongly about, this was one of those...
> 
> This , shouldn't however.. keep us from getting very dirty , as transparent as I am emotionally.. just as Physically...with the one who loves us, is committed to us.. ..
> 
> I am all for being "the Lady in the streets and the Freak in the sheets" with the one who has given me his heart ... there is great security and freedom in this.... just as many women want a Gentleman but also some of that Bad Boy in bed!


I think the only problem I have with the dichotomous language of "bad girl in the bedroom" is that many women--and men, for that matter--take it too much to heart. A woman who is a good wife, mother, daughter, friend and lady can sometimes feel ashamed of some of her sexual desires--whether it be for rough sex, kinky stuff, or dirty talk. She's supposed to be a "good girl," the "angel of the house," how can she have these "dirty, filthy" desires? I personally think that the language needs to change from "bad, dirty," to "this is what I like, and I'm not going to feel guilty about it."

You are able to use such words without them causing those guilt-feelings within you. But many women do feel ashamed, when they should feel safe within the bounds of their marriages to say "this is something I want."

And men feel ashamed, too, by having these sexual desires for their wives. They want to be respectful to their wives--and as well they should--but worry that, by them being a "bad boy" to her in the bedroom, they are somehow being disrespectful. Again, a man should be able to say "this is something I want to do with you," and it not make them feel like they are degrading their beloved wives. 

Your views and mine are fairly close, my remarks are only pinpointing how the words used in our common parlance can actually be deleterious--how they have locked people into these roles and labels and induced shame and guilt.


----------



## FalconKing

Therealbrighteyes said:


> To be fair, there are about a dozen men on TAM who have said exactly this. Maybe they were trying to be flippant or funny but the message sure was "feed us, screw us, leave us alone".



I think a more intelligent way of saying that is. "I like when you do nice things for me. I like having sex with you. If we can't have a rational or intelligent conversation, I'm going to tune you out and avoid talking to you."


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## ocotillo

Holland said:


> I think the confusion is because men seek advice about women's sexuality from men instead of asking or discussing it with women....


I agree that getting advice from the wrong people generates a huge amount of confusion, Holland. On this particular subject though, a lot depends on what woman gives the advice. 

There are fairly large segments of the female population (At least here in the puritanical U.S. where being offended is our national pastime.) that would regard it as sexist, even downright misogynistic to be rough with or to "Take" your wife or SO sexually.


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## Therealbrighteyes

FalconKing said:


> I think a more intelligent way of saying that is. "I like when you do nice things for me. I like having sex with. If we can't have a rational or intelligent conversation, I'm going to tune you out and avoid talking to you."


Yes and it would have been great if that's the way they had said it.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *HappyGilmore said*: No, only the books I referenced, simply because they are so poorly written as to be nearly unreadable (except when I've been tipsy, then they're just funny). Will someone please contact Anne Rice so she can do a complete overhaul on those novels, please?
> In all seriousness, *I have no problem waiting for the right man, because I believe men and women deserve to be in good relationships where they can feel safe to express their sexuality.*


Thank you for your post & thoughts Happy Gilmore... 

On this note...I had an article saved that I personally resonated with on "Embracing one's sexuality" -the link is gone now -(posted it below) ... even with the differences of what women want .. and their personal boundaries in dating.. I would hope all of us, at the very least, could agree on the ending...








"The key to enjoying our own sexuality is to remember that it’s not about what ‘people’ would think, but what we think. How great sex makes us feel, what a healing, bonding joy it is. Set the boundaries you feel comfortable with and play within them. And for the sake of love, don’t be too hard on yourself.... friend adds, “You judge yourself way harder than society does.” Embracing our sexuality is a life-long journey towards self-discovery; get yourself a First Class ticket to ride."

I don't have a problem with the idea of "*giving*" myself... TheRealBrightEyes spoke of this mentality of "giving" -saying how it is "deeply misogynistic"...

So I guess there is just something WRONG WITH ME THEN.. . my views are labeled bowing to misogynistic men... not sure what the hell to do with that !.....I never heard this term before coming to this forum....I started reading about it ...many feel every Christian is a misogynist (I know a lot of wonderful woman haters who are great husbands & fathers then!)....I feel this word is thrown around far too liberally.. 

I just don't feel that those of us who feel as this should be lumped in with that ugly word ....with it's UGLY meaning.... but the connection has been made many times over in articles I've read..(mainly feminist).... now this is what I find offending...

For instance...this will give an example of using the word "GIFT" in relation to sex...those who hold a more Romantic / attachment based view ... *we care* to reserve sex for someone we are deeply in love with ..*we want* the strings of emotional attachment/commitment.... Often we talk in terms of sex as sacred ..(I can see the eyes rolling now ) *as a Gift **to be preserved & given to someone of profound significance*... we feel that sex should be connected with a thirst for deep psychological & bodily knowledge... Mutually reciprocated *gift-giving* & intimacy are it's purpose. ( This & 5 other sexual views explained here)

*That article*...


> *So, you like sex. Shame on you, right? *
> 
> Many women, from post-war baby boomers to the fresh-faced crop of Generation Y, still have problems dealing with—even acknowledging—their own sensuality and sexuality. We navigate a minefield of religious and societal sanctions, health hazards, and a global media that bombards us with sexual imagery while at the same time being capable of uttering the words Sex, Sin and whor** in the same sentence. What are we as women to do? We asked a few readers and friends about embracing our own sexuality, and here’s what they had to say: Sexuality doesn’t mean promiscuity. Being sexual doesn’t mean sleeping around.
> 
> It’s not the number of men you’ve slept with that make your sex life truly fulfilling, but the quality of the sex, and how you feel about yourself after, that count. A woman can be her truest sexual self within the confines of a monogamous relationship—as a matter of fact, that’s where most women find the sexual identity they were looking for. As one married male musician tells us, “Finding and embracing your sexual self doesn't necessarily mean shame or being a sl**, particularly if your explorations are within the bounds of a loving, responsible relationship.”
> 
> *Unshackle your mind*
> 
> Although religious and moral codes are invaluable to maintaining order, they’re still rooted in an age where a woman’s sexuality was taboo. Those of us who are strong in our faiths find ourselves conflicted: how do we remain true to what we believe while still finding personal, emotional and sexual fulfillment?
> 
> Here, the choice is a personal one. But as we try to solve a dilemma that can erroneously be seen as a choice between body and soul, remember that many of the admonitions against what a woman thinks, feels and does are mired in an age when we were barely allowed to do any of the above.
> 
> Even our secular sisters feel the weight of social opinion. It’s especially galling because the condemnation for acting on our sexual feelings falls upon us, rather than on the broader backs of our brothers.“Men count their ‘conquests’ as notches on their belt, but women are considered ‘*****s’,” one banker observes. An article on sexuality suggested, perhaps tongue in cheek, that when women are asked how many people they’ve slept with, they halve their ‘number’, while men double theirs.
> 
> *Find a safe place*
> 
> We can’t express our sexuality if we feel pressured or threatened. In order to be truly fulfilled, we need to find a safe place... and that ‘place’ doesn’t necessarily mean a location. Safety has to do with being with someone you trust, who will open his mind wide enough to help you open yours.“Finding a safe place” also means making your life a maco-free zone. It’s a small country, and everyone knows somebody who knows somebody who did this, that and the other with somebody else. “Discreet” isn’t synonymous with “prudish”. Being sexual doesn’t mean getting drunk enough to whip off your top while a dozen cell phones upload your antics to the World Wide Web. Don’t feed the gossips. Better yet, get them out of your life. Who needs friends who spend more time getting their jollies over other people’s lives than living for themselves?
> 
> *Remember, you’re not alone*
> 
> The insurance agent in the grey suit patiently explaining your claim form to you was probably blindfolded and tied up last night. Your post-lady has an account at SexToysRUs.com. “The actions that society condemns in public, it commits behind closed doors,” one man suggests. We all like sex. We’re programmed to like sex. People are having more sex than you could possibly imagine, even those who act like butter won’t melt in their mouths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...The key to enjoying our own sexuality is to remember that it’s not about what ‘people’ would think, but what we think. How great sex makes us feel, what a healing, bonding joy it is. Set the boundaries you feel comfortable with and play within them. And for the sake of love, don’t be too hard on yourself.... friend adds, “You judge yourself way harder than society does.” Embracing our sexuality is a life-long journey towards self-discovery; get yourself a First Class ticket to ride.


----------



## FalconKing

Holland said:


> I think the confusion is because men seek advice about women's sexuality from men instead of asking or discussing it with women. Take this place for eg, how often are women told they are outliers f they enjoy sex, that they are wrong or lying when they say they like sex. There are men here that still even in 2014 think that only men are visual, that women need love to have sex, that women need romance and flowers. Men here give the most outdated advice and have terribly outdated opinions on women's sexuality.
> 
> 
> 
> If men want to learn more and understand women's sexuality they need to open their minds and talk to women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






ocotillo said:


> I agree that getting advice from the wrong people generates a huge amount of confusion, Holland. On this particular subject though, a lot depends on what woman gives the advice.



I agree. Not every woman I have conversations with is open, honest, and secure in who she is. And some women don't want to tell their husband. They just want him to figure it out. Maybe it's the mindset of "I love and I married you, so I shouldn't have to tell you what I want." I get that. But if you have a rape fantasy or like golden showers, there is no way in hell I'm going to figure that out.

A long time ago, DvlsAdvc8 made thread asking women's advice about what it was they wanted. It was everything he did do and everything he didn't. And I think a lot posters just saw it as a chance to attack a man that was being vulnerable. Some were even saying things that sounded "HOT" but didn't even apply to them. It's like they were talking about stuff they read in romance novels. I remember in particular, a female poster saying he had to just grab a woman, rip off her clothes and just bang her as soon as she walks in the door. But this same poster said in another thread that unless her husband initiates sex very softly and sweet she will reject him. He deleted the thread. I don't blame him. He may not even remember this, but I thought that was just so wrong. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with getting advice from both sexes, but I think the best advice would come from someone who is in the type of relationship you want.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

FalconKing said:


> I think a more intelligent way of saying that is. "I like when you do nice things for me. I like having sex with you. If we can't have a rational or intelligent conversation, I'm going to tune you out and avoid talking to you."



My H is very much into intelligent conversations. If it were missing, he wouldnt be here.

I also LOVE IT when he expresses his aggressive hunger in the bedroom, but he also enjoys me expressing the same. The strength of a man in that situation can be very calming, yet passionate.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

HappyGilmore said:


> I think the only problem I have with the dichotomous language of "bad girl in the bedroom" is that many women--and men, for that matter--take it too much to heart. A woman who is a good wife, mother, daughter, friend and lady can sometimes feel ashamed of some of her sexual desires--whether it be for rough sex, kinky stuff, or dirty talk. She's supposed to be a "good girl," the "angel of the house," how can she have these "dirty, filthy" desires? I personally think that the language needs to change from "bad, dirty," to "this is what I like, and I'm not going to feel guilty about it."
> 
> *You are able to use such words without them causing those guilt-feelings within you. But many women do feel ashamed, when they should feel safe within the bounds of their marriages to say "this is something I want."*


 you're right, I don't feel a bit guilty...he knows me at my core... what I am made of, how I feel about him...how I feel about sex, even opening up about our fantasies, where others might find that "too much"... we're good!! 



> And men feel ashamed, too, by having these sexual desires for their wives. They want to be respectful to their wives--and as well they should--but worry that, by them being a "bad boy" to her in the bedroom, they are somehow being disrespectful. Again, a man should be able to say "this is something I want to do with you," and it not make them feel like they are degrading their beloved wives.


 I guess from my end... the answer lies in opening up with each other and getting vulnerable (again... broken record here).. ...but as Falcon's post above me just said.. that can be a dagger too ....you really have to know a person...and trust them to not shame you...and KNOW yourself ...to confront it even... have a ready answer for it..I am all for that. 

This is about KNOWING THYSELF and standing for your deepest desires...always worth opening up/ exploring (unless it involves another person!).....and if we want to give and bless.. how DARE you shame me for it -would be my attitude pretty much...I'd put it back on them. 

So long as I am his woman and he is mine, the sky is the limit....Giving each other pleasure (using that term "giving" again)... should flow pretty darn hotly when you get sexually vulnerable.. even for the religious, it says the marriage bed is undefiled....

I can understand the taboo in our early years.. but reading.. and experimenting, being open minded with your lover..so many eye opening books a couple could read... I could list a bunch (I have a library full)... I rented some "how to" porn.. so many ways.. (I realize many women would be against that.. but I'm not one of them).



> Your views and mine are fairly close, my remarks are only pinpointing how the words used in our common parlance can actually be deleterious--how they have locked people into these roles and labels and induced shame and guilt.


 I can't imagine taking the "dirty" out of "DIRTY TALK"... for instance... don't we all speak such things with a big flirtatious  ...like "you've been a bad bad Boy...and it's Oh sooooo Goooood"... ya know.... we can't just change all these words.. it just sounds like a politically correct move to me... bad , good.. dirty, vixen , seductress, temptress.. we're still gonna use Fvck.. and boy can that one have a lot of meanings.. if you've never you tubed " The Definition of "Fvck" .. do that.. I laughed so hard!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SA,

I certainly didn't word my post very well if that was your take. No, I don't think giving to your husband sexually is misogynistic at all. My comment related to the phrase "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free". It is rooted in an era when the reason a woman "gave" herself was for transactional sex. It wasn't considered proper at all for a woman to actually want sex and she couldn't possibly have sex because she got any physical pleasure out of it. It would happen if she got something of value in return. That is a very misogynistic way of thinking. That women don't have any sexual desires and the only acceptable reason she would do such an activity was for personal gain. 

Giving of yourself to your husband is completely different than what I mentioned above. You want and desire sex with him, not because you expect x,y or z in return. You are free to "give" and sexually express yourself with sexual release and bonding as your reward. 

Hopefully I explained myself better. Wanting to give sex isn't misogynistic at all. Telling women the only way they could or should "give" themselves in sexual activity was for status or financial benefit is.


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## 2ntnuf

The most attractive women seem to find the most handsome and able to provide men. Look at Donald Trump for instance. Did those women marry him for his hair style? It is charming.  It happens all the time. When things seem to go awry is when our parents don't understand that children will believe exactly what they tell them, when they speak in a certain tone. 

Why buy the cow when the milk is for free, if I remember correctly was said so that a daughter would not offer herself to whomever is available, because the men of the time who were better providers seemed to avoid those women who were known to be very promiscuous. 

I think mothers wanted their daughters to find a man who wasn't quick to bed a woman because they thought he would be quick to bed other women even while married. 

Right or wrong? I am not judging. I don't know. I think it's more opinion than right or wrong.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Therealbrighteyes said:


> SA,
> 
> I certainly didn't word my post very well if that was your take. No, I don't think giving to your husband sexually is misogynistic at all. My comment related to the phrase "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free". It is rooted in an era when the reason a woman "gave" herself was for transactional sex. It wasn't considered proper at all for a woman to actually want sex and she couldn't possibly have sex because she got any physical pleasure out of it. It would happen if she got something of value in return. That is a very misogynistic way of thinking. That women don't have any sexual desires and the only acceptable reason she would do such an activity was for personal gain.


 I never heard of transactional sex, always learning something new here ... Well any women who lived back then and had a healthy sex drive knew this was







... don't you think... if a woman was naturally Low drive, didn't feel those testosterone cravings... I can see how she wouldn't be exploring it -it wouldn't be on the radar.. plus such teachings wouldn't help.

Yet how many women masturbate.. they crave sex, they CRAVE connection with a man, those who don't .. I would never understand.. I don't care what messages are taught , some things just RISE Above -it's nature!



> Giving of yourself to your husband is completely different than what I mentioned above. You want and desire sex with him, not because you expect x,y or z in return. You are free to "give" and sexually express yourself with sexual release and bonding as your reward.
> 
> Hopefully I explained myself better. Wanting to give sex isn't misogynistic at all. Telling women the only way they could or should "give" themselves in sexual activity was for status or financial benefit is.


Yes...Bonding is the reward...

Well it gets really confusing for me.. let me shed some light...Yrs ago here.. I had a female poster pm me .... I used the word "GIVING" in relation to sex in a post...(this seems to be a buzz word, red flags go up)... she wanted me to know *this is a hang up* and I need to be enlightened ...

she had a article for me to read explaining how a woman's perception is ALL WRONG TO FEEL she is "giving something up".. and








feels the same way, he sees no reasonable point for any women to feel this way, he can't wrap his brain around it ..

BUt anyway... it was the 1st time I ever had someone confront me on this.. (& that's all well & good... it challenges my mind, to see another perspective ...and evaluate my own in light of it)......

But it was clear she felt I was WRONG..that a woman *should not look at it THIS WAY*, I think she admitted she did at one time too, then changed her views, and now she felt empowered... .. we had a few back & forths... but ended we'd have to








.. cause I still felt as I always felt.... I wouldn't have wanted unattached relationships just for pleasure .. ..which I'd have to change my perception in how I looked upon the act to allow for this.. It just wasn't for me...

I am happy with my romantic perception..it is healthy for me in light of what I wanted out of life and love...ya know.. 

The Milk and cow thing doesn't bother me (just keeping it honest)... my H had me laughing one day talking about this, he told me he's the type that wants to buy the cow...

Now here is the thing with that.. IF a woman HAS to hog tie him -her withholding while he is suffering, this is just not healthy....He will grow to resent her...and most times he'll just dump her if she doesn't put out soon enough...

... the 2 need to work that out respectfully so both will be satisfied ..and thrive while emotionally their connection grows.. .and play within those boundaries.. if they have them. 

BUT on the other hand.. giving a man everything too quickly and willingly often backfires (would you disagree with me?).... now if the woman doesn't care, it doesn't matter!!!..Go for it ! ENjoy him.. and see what tomorrow brings..

But if she does care (like me)...and she miss-calculated his intentions or he wasn't the man she thought, he lied...or changes his mind ... how many threads do we encounter where she moved in , yrs later she is beside herself ...he promised her a ring....HE's content [email protected]#$. ..It's .... very sad.. I just feel she jumped too quickly to trust.. maybe you see something else. but this is what I see.. I care about women, I don't think they should have to go through that, I sure as hell don't want my own daughter in that situation [email protected]#

As far as "WANTING TO HAVE SEX"... for our young people.. I feel it's a good message to speak of restraint ...is their not value in this ?? Come on... those with a high sex drive. I could have easily been an addict if I gave into my base desires when I was younger... and where would I be today.. I wouldn't have my life.. Oh we could have been banging when I was 15.. Oh did I ever want to go there [email protected]#.... but I held back , if some of my beliefs helped me do that..I do not regret them....

I was too young I didn't feel that was right, he was honorable and he wouldn't have -even if I DID want too... that's just how he is..

Not sure what to say.. we do have our differences.... I just worry about our children..I raise mine against the grain...I don't like where the tide is going.. CM's thread in Men's section.. some website -all hooking up for casual sex objectifying bodies online...the more we embrace, the more common it will be for our kids. Then this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/215762-sending-tribute-shot-cheating.html There is no shame today... this is SEX today.. Old time Romance is basically non-existent.. this is  to me...


----------



## GettingIt_2

SimplyAmorous said:


> There is no shame today... this is SEX today.. Old time Romance is basically non-existent.. this is  to me...


Don't despair, SA, I really don't think romance is non existent . . . it just doesn't have much shock value, therefore i's "viral quotient" is low, leading to less exposure on the internet. And while the internet is where all eyes are these days, I do believe that there is plenty of room in most people's hearts for romance. 

And removing shame from sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. I do agree that approaching sex with intention and a strong sense of one's own values is best.


----------



## HappyGilmore

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can't imagine taking the "dirty" out of "DIRTY TALK"... for instance... don't we all speak such things with a big flirtatious  ...like "you've been a bad bad Boy...and it's Oh sooooo Goooood"... ya know.... we can't just change all these words.. it just sounds like a politically correct move to me... bad , good.. dirty, vixen , seductress, temptress.. we're still gonna use Fvck.. and boy can that one have a lot of meanings.. if you've never you tubed " The Definition of "Fvck" .. do that.. I laughed so hard!


I like your posts, SA. You impart a great deal of wisdom. 

I think trying to pull many repressed women out of their shells takes time, and though we can't take the "dirty" out of "dirty talk," they can take the guilt out of these ladies. They need to know that they are not "dirty" or "bad" for wanting these things. A young lady in my class asked me, after a few beers, what was the craziest sexual thing I'd done. I told her she didn't want to know the craziest stuff I've done, but I would tell her one of the tamer things: and she was just shocked when I told her I went to a lesser populated area and had sex in the car with my husband. And this is a girl who reads erotica, is the life of the party, and is otherwise pretty socially outgoing. She said: "oh, that's so daring. So dirty. My husband and I would never do that." Seriously? No sex in the car?! Ever?! It boggles my mind that she of all people would find that to be dirty. I said "this from a girl who proudly reads 50 shades of grey." She told me: "I find it hot and sexy and all that, and would try it, but what does that say about me? Am I bad for it?" I told her she's not bad, but who knows what kind of social programming she's had that she would have to overcome in order to feel free to engage in something a little out of the ordinary. Sad, really, that she feels guilty about wanting to indulge in some kink with her husband. And, I've talked with other women who share the same sorts of views. Anything beyond missionary with the lights off is only for "bad girls."

And yes, I've seen that youtube video. Absolutely hilarious! :rofl:


----------



## 2ntnuf

That is repressed.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening 2ntnuf
I honestly don't think that the most "handsome and able to provide men" are necessarily the best partners. You don't need to be Donald Trump rich to have enough money to enjoy a wide range of fun things together. As far as handsome - opinions are all over the map on what "handsome" or "beautiful" means.

This works the other way too - I honestly would not trade my wife for the worlds most beautiful rich girl. Really. Those are way down on the list of what makes me happy. (see the thread I'm about to post on "forgotten anniversary). 




2ntnuf said:


> The most attractive women seem to find the most handsome and able to provide men. Look at Donald Trump for instance. Did those women marry him for his hair style? It is charming.  It happens all the time. When things seem to go awry is when our parents don't understand that children will believe exactly what they tell them, when they speak in a certain tone.
> 
> Why buy the cow when the milk is for free, if I remember correctly was said so that a daughter would not offer herself to whomever is available, because the men of the time who were better providers seemed to avoid those women who were known to be very promiscuous.
> 
> I think mothers wanted their daughters to find a man who wasn't quick to bed a woman because they thought he would be quick to bed other women even while married.
> 
> Right or wrong? I am not judging. I don't know. I think it's more opinion than right or wrong.


----------



## Quant

Taking her with passion and aggression makes her feel desired. Telling her what you are going to do to her as you strip her naked while biting her neck and gripping her hair will really get her going.


----------



## Quant

SimplyAmorous said:


> you're right, I don't feel a bit guilty...he knows me at my core... what I am made of, how I feel about him...how I feel about sex, even opening up about our fantasies, where others might find that "too much"... we're good!!
> 
> I guess from my end... the answer lies in opening up with each other and getting vulnerable (again... broken record here).. ...but as Falcon's post above me just said.. that can be a dagger too ....you really have to know a person...and trust them to not shame you...and KNOW yourself ...to confront it even... have a ready answer for it..I am all for that.
> 
> This is about KNOWING THYSELF and standing for your deepest desires...always worth opening up/ exploring (unless it involves another person!).....and if we want to give and bless.. how DARE you shame me for it -would be my attitude pretty much...I'd put it back on them.
> 
> So long as I am his woman and he is mine, the sky is the limit....Giving each other pleasure (using that term "giving" again)... should flow pretty darn hotly when you get sexually vulnerable.. even for the religious, it says the marriage bed is undefiled....
> 
> I can understand the taboo in our early years.. but reading.. and experimenting, being open minded with your lover..so many eye opening books a couple could read... I could list a bunch (I have a library full)... I rented some "how to" porn.. so many ways.. (I realize many women would be against that.. but I'm not one of them).
> 
> I can't imagine taking the "dirty" out of "DIRTY TALK"... for instance... don't we all speak such things with a big flirtatious  ...like "you've been a bad bad Boy...and it's Oh sooooo Goooood"... ya know.... we can't just change all these words.. it just sounds like a politically correct move to me... bad , good.. dirty, vixen , seductress, temptress.. we're still gonna use Fvck.. and boy can that one have a lot of meanings.. if you've never you tubed " The Definition of "Fvck" .. do that.. I laughed so hard!


I understand your point but I find communication isn't as effective as "taking" with a lot of woman.Basically forcing them to give in to their desires makes it more exciting it seems.


----------



## Thor

ArmyofJuan said:


> Of course society changes faster than biology so we still retain to some degree our primitive drives that may no longer help us in this day and age but they still influence our emotions. Women still chase “bad boys” because at one time those were alpha traits that did well a looooong time ago but today, not so much. There’s no longer an advantage of being a big brute but our primitive minds don’t know that.


This is where Pick Up Artist theory comes from. Act like, which means _pretend to be_, an Alpha by doing certain specific things which _trick the female brain_ into thinking you are a superior mate. PUA techniques are not about being a better man, PUA is about _fooling the female_ by tapping into those ancient brain circuits.

In today's society, men who are great providers and very stable husbands don't come from the Bad Boy crowd. But the female brain isn't wired to prefer the modern man, and they find themselves turned off sexually by these modern men.


----------



## 2ntnuf

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening 2ntnuf
> I honestly don't think that the most "handsome and able to provide men" are necessarily the best partners. You don't need to be Donald Trump rich to have enough money to enjoy a wide range of fun things together. As far as handsome - opinions are all over the map on what "handsome" or "beautiful" means.
> 
> This works the other way too - I honestly would not trade my wife for the worlds most beautiful rich girl. Really. Those are way down on the list of what makes me happy. (see the thread I'm about to post on "forgotten anniversary).


I don't either. I think we were talking about a different era, though. A time when women weren't out in the work force as much as they are today. A time when those women were segregated from the work force and higher paying jobs. 

I think parents want the best for their children. I think they assume things will be the same in their children's future as they had it. No one knows for sure what the future will look like, so they go with what the know and offer the best advice they can.

In general, I agree with you. Money and looks don't make the best partner. Money gives you choices, the more you have. Choices can lead to happiness. Looks make it nice to wake up in the morning or come home at night. They don't make up for personality. Personality will trump looks many times. 

We can get caught up in the meanings and intentions of each of our posts. I meant no harm. I was only explaining it as I understood it. Right or wrong, it's what I remember.


----------



## ocotillo

ArmyofJuan said:


> Primitive man didn't exactly court women and “nice guys” wouldn't stand a chance of mating, they’d get beating up by other males. Women didn't exactly pick their mates either, the strongest males took what they wanted....



How primitive is primitive? From the time of _H. heidelbergensis_ and probably before, even the strongest of us have been fragile creatures, remarkably easy to kill. 

Men tend to judge other men by their height and the size of their upper arms and chest, so it might make sense after a fashion to imagine that characters like Drogo from _Game of Thrones_ pretty much took what they wanted. The reality is a big rock to the back of the head even from a much smaller male and poor Drogo is deader than a doornail.

Because of this, humans have always been about partnerships, alliances, families, clans, tribes, etc. Power resides in the strength of the social group more so than the strength of an individual. Some men who attained this power undoubtedly were big, strong and aggressive too, but judging from more recent history, many were not.


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> I understand your point but I find communication isn't as effective as "taking" with a lot of woman.Basically forcing them to give in to their desires makes it more exciting it seems.


Might say the same thing about a lot of men, too. Most men have fantasies about a woman not taking "no" for an answer, and just jumping on and "taking" what she wants. Makes a man feel like he is sexy, desired, wanted--so much so that the woman cannot control herself. 

It seems men and women are not so different, after all...

So where is the thread about "men and rough sex?"


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Might say the same thing about a lot of men, too. Most men have fantasies about a woman not taking "no" for an answer, and just jumping on and "taking" what she wants. Makes a man feel like he is sexy, desired, wanted--so much so that the woman cannot control herself.
> 
> It seems men and women are not so different, after all...
> 
> So where is the thread about "men and rough sex?"


True for some men its more likely with women though.There's a reason 50 Shades of Grey exists and women read it.Women like to be owned by a worthy male that make her makes her tingle.


----------



## ocotillo

HappyGilmore said:


> So where is the thread about "men and rough sex?"


Done


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> True for some men its more likely with women though.There's a reason 50 Shades of Grey exists and women read it.Women like to be owned by a worthy male that make her makes her tingle.


Owned? Not all of us. Actually, I'm a woman that likes to do the "owning," if you catch my meaning  . And not all of us read or enjoy those "books." 

(You don't want to get me started on Mrs James' inability to string together enough coherent thoughts to write a book, much less three. BDSM Maledom/femsub literature is one thing, but shoddy prose is completely unacceptable.) 

Should start a poll and see how many men would like to have a woman "jump their bones," vs how many women would like it--and compare the raw numbers. I'm fairly certain that the numbers will be close enough to show that there is not a statistically significant difference, but I could be wrong...


----------



## FalconKing

HappyGilmore said:


> Owned? Not all of us. Actually, I'm a woman that likes to do the "owning," if you catch my meaning  . And not all of us read or enjoy those "books."
> 
> 
> 
> (You don't want to get me started on Mrs James' inability to string together enough coherent thoughts to write a book, much less three. BDSM Maledom/femsub literature is one thing, but shoddy prose is completely unacceptable.)
> 
> 
> 
> Should start a poll and see how many men would like to have a woman "jump their bones," vs how many women would like it--and compare the raw numbers. I'm fairly certain that the numbers will be close enough to show that there is not a statistically significant difference, but I could be wrong...



I don't think the numbers would be that much different but I think there would be differences in why they want it. Men are often the initiators of sex. If women do initiate it often seems subtle IMO.
So to have a women be an initiator and be enthusiastic and aggressive about it..... I think a lot of guys can't even imagine that. 

With men being the usual "aggressor", I think it's less of a stretch for them to just be more physical. 

So I do think both men and women have this fantasy, but I think on the average it seems more likely to happen for women. Just what I think.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Quant said:


> I understand your point but I find communication isn't as effective as "taking" with a lot of woman.Basically forcing them to give in to their desires makes it more exciting it seems.


Well you've missed some of my earlier posts on this thread - my husband could be MORE of A "TAKER"... he struggles with the "rough".. it's not like I can hog tie him and make him do it.. frankly I've told him when I start getting pi$$y about this.. (and I do on occasion)... he needs to turn me over & beat my a$$../ spank me.. (it's a start, right!)...and he still doesn't do it !.... 

My very 1st thread here was THIS >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...inate-enough-wives-who-how-reverse-roles.html

Thor said "In today's society, men who are great providers and very stable husbands don't come from the Bad Boy crowd.".. .Yep, that's my husband....everything else about him I adore...it's just this one little area he could Up some things... 



GettingIt said:


> And removing shame from sex is a good thing, not a bad thing. I do agree that approaching sex with intention and a strong sense of one's own values is best.


 There is a website called No Shame in Sex | Non-Traditional Sexual Discovery I read a few of those articles quickly.....much about open relationships...embracing the no strings attached, even calling it a virtue in one article..because it doesn't seek to control -or make promises like monogamy... If 2 people are of the same mind, they do not have jealous tendencies or want to be deeply wrapped up in another ... I suppose this is all Do-able.. Interesting site.. 

I'm all game for reading anything.. all views...but I can't find myself in those articles ..many of us want the strings.... we would ache with jealousy if our Lover wanted others...some may see that as a weakness or a flaw.. but I don't...I think it's something that makes us sensitively beautiful....

And I guess I don't find it a conflict of interest...(sex being shameful)... we just have more emotional requirements before we go there.. then we can let loose in all it's glory ....and in any fetish too..



> *HappyGilmore said* : Might say the same thing about a lot of men, too. Most men have fantasies about a woman not taking "no" for an answer, and just jumping on and "taking" what she wants. Makes a man feel like he is sexy, desired, wanted--so much so that the woman cannot control herself.


This is my husband.. go figure.. and I'm like you ..HappyGilmore, I like to do that "Owning" too!


----------



## jld

Happy Gilmore, how did you first realize you were a domme?


----------



## Holland

FalconKing said:


> I don't think the numbers would be that much different but I think there would differences in why they want it. Men are often the initiators of sex. If women do initiate it often seems subtle IMO.
> So to have a women be an initiator and be enthusiastic and aggressive about it..... I think a lot of guys can't even imagine that.
> 
> With men being the usual "aggressor", I think it's less of a stretch for them to just be more physical.
> 
> So I do think both men and women have this fantasy, but I think on the average it seems more likely to happen for women. Just what I think.


I don't think the numbers would be all that different if it were a real life poll however polls on TAM hold no weight IMHO as the population here is skewed.

In my world I initiate plenty but it is different to how Mr H does. He will grab me and say we are going to bed "now". I love that.
I am more likely (as I have already done this morning) to send him a txt along the lines of "your arse is mine tonight". 

We had very open and frank discussions even before our relationship began about sex and all that surrounds it. He told me that he likes the woman to initiate, he wants to feel wanted, I think I am doing OK but do check in with him sometimes to make sure his needs are being met.

For me, being an equal initiator has been a slow, painful at times experience due to long term rejection in my past marriage. It was so freeing and refreshing to have met a man that engaged in open communication so early on, we knew we were on the same page well before the serious stage of our relationship began.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Owned? Not all of us. Actually, I'm a woman that likes to do the "owning," if you catch my meaning  . And not all of us read or enjoy those "books."
> 
> (You don't want to get me started on Mrs James' inability to string together enough coherent thoughts to write a book, much less three. BDSM Maledom/femsub literature is one thing, but shoddy prose is completely unacceptable.)
> 
> Should start a poll and see how many men would like to have a woman "jump their bones," vs how many women would like it--and compare the raw numbers. I'm fairly certain that the numbers will be close enough to show that there is not a statistically significant difference, but I could be wrong...


I think you are wrong just look at the erotica consumed by the sexes economics reveals gender preferences and more women like to be dominated then men.


----------



## Quant

SimplyAmorous said:


> Well you've missed some of my earlier posts on this thread - my husband could be MORE of A "TAKER"... he struggles with the "rough".. it's not like I can hog tie him and make him do it.. frankly I've told him when I start getting pi$$y about this.. (and I do on occasion)... he needs to turn me over & beat my a$$../ spank me.. (it's a start, right!)...and he still doesn't do it !....
> 
> My very 1st thread here was THIS >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...inate-enough-wives-who-how-reverse-roles.html
> 
> Thor said "In today's society, men who are great providers and very stable husbands don't come from the Bad Boy crowd.".. .Yep, that's my husband....everything else about him I adore...it's just this one little area he could Up some things...
> 
> There is a website called No Shame in Sex | Non-Traditional Sexual Discovery I read a few of those articles quickly.....much about open relationships...embracing the no strings attached, even calling it a virtue in one article..because it doesn't seek to control -or make promises like monogamy... If 2 people are of the same mind, they do not have jealous tendencies or want to be deeply wrapped up in another ... I suppose this is all Do-able.. Interesting site..
> 
> I'm all game for reading anything.. all views...but I can't find myself in those articles ..many of us want the strings.... we would ache with jealousy if our Lover wanted others...some may see that as a weakness or a flaw.. but I don't...I think it's something that makes us sensitively beautiful....
> 
> And I guess I don't find it a conflict of interest...(sex being shameful)... we just have more emotional requirements before we go there.. then we can let loose in all it's glory ....and in any fetish too..
> 
> This is my husband.. go figure.. and I'm like you ..HappyGilmore, I like to do that "Owning" too!


He puts you on a pedestal too much,he needs to realize you are just a person and do things to you he has in his head,just forget about 'respect'.


----------



## Holland

I have never read erotica. We have sex books in the bedside table, but they are instructional not fiction.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> I think you are wrong just look at the erotica consumed by the sexes economics reveals gender preferences and more women like to be dominated then men.


I agree with you, Quant, but I think a lot of men on TAM have expressed an interest in being dominated.


----------



## HappyGilmore

FalconKing said:


> I don't think the numbers would be that much different but I think there would differences in why they want it. Men are often the initiators of sex. If women do initiate it often seems subtle IMO.
> 
> So to have a women be an initiator and be enthusiastic and aggressive about it..... I think a lot of guys can't even imagine that.
> 
> With men being the usual "aggressor", I think it's less of a stretch for them to just be more physical.
> 
> So I do think both men and women have this fantasy, but I think on the average it seems more likely to happen for women. Just what I think.


Why do many men and women want someone to just be aggressive or assertive sexually? Because both of them want to be desired so much that someone cannot control him/herself.

However, you are right, the implementation of it is different. There is no way that I could pick my husband up and carry him upstairs--although I have grabbed him by his shirt collar a few times and "pulled" him upstairs with me. But, all I need to do is give him that "look," or lean over and tell him that "we are going to the bedroom now, so come follow me." In our play, it is more of a psychological dominance that occurs. I told him yesterday that I plan to "play" with him sometime this week, so he would need to prepare himself to be my pleasure slave for a couple of hours. He responded "only a couple of hours? Aren't I always your slave?" Even though he was smiling when he said it, he was very serious. In his mind, no matter what he is doing, he is serving me. And he likes it that way.

The reasons women do not initiate sex more often are multitudinous. These reasons vary from woman to woman. Some do not because of sexual preference: they want to be dominated, or are less assertive sexually. Some do not because of various and sundry hang-ups: ladies don't do this, good girls would never..."gasp, but I'm the angel of the house!" Some do not feel confident enough in their own attractiveness. And still others just prefer to be romanced, with the man doing the romancing. 

All I know, is that both men and women want to be desired.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Why do many men and women want someone to just be aggressive or assertive sexually? Because both of them want to be desired so much that someone cannot control him/herself.
> 
> However, you are right, the implementation of it is different. There is no way that I could pick my husband up and carry him upstairs--although I have grabbed him by his shirt collar a few times and "pulled" him upstairs with me. But, all I need to do is give him that "look," or lean over and tell him that "we are going to the bedroom now, so come follow me." In our play, it is more of a psychological dominance that occurs. I told him yesterday that I plan to "play" with him sometime this week, so he would need to prepare himself to be my pleasure slave for a couple of hours. He responded "only a couple of hours? Aren't I always your slave?" Even though he was smiling when he said it, he was very serious. In his mind, no matter what he is doing, he is serving me. And he likes it that way.
> 
> The reasons women do not initiate sex more often are multitudinous. These reasons vary from woman to woman. Some do not because of sexual preference: they want to be dominated, or are less assertive sexually. Some do not because of various and sundry hang-ups: ladies don't do this, good girls would never..."gasp, but I'm the angel of the house!" Some do not feel confident enough in their own attractiveness. And still others just prefer to be romanced, with the man doing the romancing.
> 
> All I know, is that both men and women want to be desired.


Desire to me and most men I know is about what you'll allow us to do to you.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> I agree with you, Quant, but I think a lot of men on TAM have expressed an interest in being dominated.


I agree there is a sizable minority of guys who do want to be dominated.Also good girl for agreeing.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Desire to me and most men I know is about what you'll allow us to do to you.


That is interesting. Is this beyond sex?


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> I agree there is a sizable minority of guys who do want to be dominated.Also good girl for agreeing.


Don't flirt with me, Quant!

J/k!


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> That is interesting. Is this beyond sex?


Its hard to tell men like accommodating women who aren't a pain in the ass.For me I'm really dominant so I need submission not accommodation.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Don't flirt with me, Quant!
> 
> J/k!


If I don't give out rewards for being a good girl then I'd have to punish more and we wouldn't want that.


----------



## FalconKing

Holland said:


> I don't think the numbers would be all that different if it were a real life poll however polls on TAM hold no weight IMHO as the population here is skewed.
> 
> 
> 
> In my world I initiate plenty but it is different to how Mr H does. He will grab me and say we are going to bed "now". I love that.
> 
> I am more likely (as I have already done this morning) to send him a txt along the lines of "your arse is mine tonight".
> 
> 
> 
> We had very open and frank discussions even before our relationship began about sex and all that surrounds it. He told me that he likes the woman to initiate, he wants to feel wanted, I think I am doing OK but do check in with him sometimes to make sure his needs are being met.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, being an equal initiator has been a slow, painful at times experience due to long term rejection in my past marriage. It was so freeing and refreshing to have met a man that engaged in open communication so early on, we knew we were on the same page well before the serious stage of our relationship began.



Holland I thing we are saying the same thing but why do you think a poll here would be skewed? There are so many guys here in sexually frustrating marriages, I think they would love a sexually aggressive women. And based on the responses in this thread, I a fair amount of women definitely would go for it.


----------



## HappyGilmore

jld said:


> Happy Gilmore, how did you first realize you were a domme?


I wasn't too sure of my own kink, but knew I most likely was not going to be a submissive. Maybe I could have been a top, a bottom, a switch, I didn't know at the time. A friend of mine invited me to one of those "parties."

I was standing there, watching the scenes, when one couple took center stage. The woman looked like your favorite hippy-aunt. She was older, very pretty, and definitely not dressed like the stereotypical dominatrix. She was dressed, well, like a hippy. Her husband, very handsome man about her same age, physically fit, very rugged and manly looking. He proceeded to undress and lie down on the table. She tied his hands over his head, tied his feet down. By that time, I was starting to breath really fast, and was getting very aroused. She began to drip hot wax on him, and as I watched him struggling against his bonds, groaning, I was getting more and more turned on. She looked down at him, tenderly and stroked his forehead, and said "ssshh." The look on his face, I can't even describe it. I was salivating by then. I think she noticed, because she smiled at me. If she would have invited me to join in, I would have in a second. Watching his muscles flex against those restraints, listening to the sounds he made...I had to go outside afterward to catch my breath. I actually almost had an orgasm watching.

It was then that I knew.


----------



## Quant

FalconKing said:


> Holland I thing we are saying the same thing but why do you think a poll here would be skewed? There are so many guys here in sexually frustrating marriages, I think they would love a sexually aggressive women. And based on the responses in this thread, I a fair amount of women definitely would go for it.


In a desert all water is from a spring.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> If I don't give out rewards for being a good girl then I'd have to punish more and we wouldn't want that.


----------



## jld

Wow, Happy, that is really powerful. Thanks for sharing your story.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> I wasn't too sure of my own kink, but knew I most likely was not going to be a submissive. Maybe I could have been a top, a bottom, a switch, I didn't know at the time. A friend of mine invited me to one of those "parties."
> 
> I was standing there, watching the scenes, when one couple took center stage. The woman looked like your favorite hippy-aunt. She was older, very pretty, and definitely not dressed like the stereotypical dominatrix. She was dressed, well, like a hippy. Her husband, very handsome man about her same age, physically fit, very rugged and manly looking. He proceeded to undress and lie down on the table. She tied his hands over his head, tied his feet down. By that time, I was starting to breath really fast, and was getting very aroused. She began to drip hot wax on him, and as I watched him struggling against his bonds, groaning, I was getting more and more turned on. She looked down at him, tenderly and stroked his forehead, and said "ssshh." The look on his face, I can't even describe it. I was salivating by then. I think she noticed, because she smiled at me. If she would have invited me to join in, I would have in a second. Watching his muscles flex against those restraints, listening to the sounds he made...I had to go outside afterward to catch my breath. I actually almost had an orgasm watching.
> 
> It was then that I knew.


Good for you,makes me want to fight for dominance though.:rofl:


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Good for you,makes me want to fight for dominance though.:rofl:


----------



## Quant

jld said:


>


Don't get too big headed now woman.


----------



## jld

Lila, are you a domme?

Don't answer if you do not want to.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Don't get too big headed now woman.


Oh, stop. You are making me laugh, though. Nice to not just get berated on these boards, lol.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Oh, stop. You are making me laugh, though. Nice to not just get berated on these boards, lol.


I can do that too if you want.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> I can do that too if you want.


No, thanks. I get plenty of it, all unwanted, already. Sigh.


----------



## GettingIt_2

HappyGilmore said:


> I wasn't too sure of my own kink, but knew I most likely was not going to be a submissive. Maybe I could have been a top, a bottom, a switch, I didn't know at the time. A friend of mine invited me to one of those "parties."
> 
> I was standing there, watching the scenes, when one couple took center stage. The woman looked like your favorite hippy-aunt. She was older, very pretty, and definitely not dressed like the stereotypical dominatrix. She was dressed, well, like a hippy. Her husband, very handsome man about her same age, physically fit, very rugged and manly looking. He proceeded to undress and lie down on the table. She tied his hands over his head, tied his feet down. By that time, I was starting to breath really fast, and was getting very aroused. She began to drip hot wax on him, and as I watched him struggling against his bonds, groaning, I was getting more and more turned on. She looked down at him, tenderly and stroked his forehead, and said "ssshh." The look on his face, I can't even describe it. I was salivating by then. I think she noticed, because she smiled at me. If she would have invited me to join in, I would have in a second. Watching his muscles flex against those restraints, listening to the sounds he made...I had to go outside afterward to catch my breath. I actually almost had an orgasm watching.
> 
> It was then that I knew.


Whoooo dang! I think my husband is gonna have to put in some extra oomph in his Dom game tonight!

Even as a woman whose kink is to be made to submit with "extreme" forms of dominance, I can see the appeal to the scene you describe. Might be time to have a talk about a monthly switch night . . . .


----------



## GettingIt_2

Quant said:


> Its hard to tell men like accommodating women who aren't a pain in the ass.For me I'm really dominant so I need submission not accommodation.


Can you elaborate on this Quant? I'm curious about how you'd describe the difference between submitting and accommodating.


----------



## jld

GettingIt said:


> Whoooo dang! I think my husband is gonna have to put in some extra oomph in his Dom game tonight!
> 
> Even as a woman whose kink is to be made to submit with "extreme" forms of dominance, I can see the appeal to the scene you describe. Might be time to have a talk about a monthly switch night . . . .


Lol, GettingIt! Seriously?

And you don't have to answer that!


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> No, thanks. I get plenty of it, all unwanted, already. Sigh.


Fine,I'll stick to playful teasing.Just make sure not to make me mad or out comes the paddle.


----------



## Quant

GettingIt said:


> Can you elaborate on this Quant? I'm curious about how you'd describe the difference between submitting and accommodating.


Accommodation is allowing your mans input and letting him take control in the sack every once in a while.Dominance to me is doing what Sir says or getting a spanking for being ever so bad.I want to dominate body,mind and her soul not just in the bedroom but in our relationship.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Fine,I'll stick to playful teasing.Just make sure not to make me mad or out comes the paddle.


Quaaaaaant . . . . (_whiny voice_)

I am going to tell my dom on you. (_flounces off_)


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Quaaaaaant . . . . (_whiny voice_)
> 
> I am going to tell my dom on you. (_flounces off_)


Bring it,I used to box at a pretty high level as a amatuer.
Also no whining or you have to stand in the corner naked.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Bring it,I used to box at a pretty high level as a amatuer.
> Also no whining or you have to stand in the corner naked.


:rofl:


----------



## GettingIt_2

jld said:


> Lol, GettingIt! Seriously?
> 
> And you don't have to answer that!


Are you surprised, jld? Didn't you once ask me if I was really a Domme? 

I can be fairly aggressive with showing desire and initiating (erm, demanding) sex. He still finds ways to out-Dom me, though. For example, I do have to take "no" for an answer sometimes, or he goes ahead and lets me ravage him and then tells me I have to go to sleep. I hate (read: love) when he does this to me. 

As I've said many time, I'm no natural submissive. I've got to be put there with some pretty dominant behavior--inside and outside the bedroom. 

But that doesn't mean my Dom is utterly unreasonable . . . he might enjoy handing over the restraints (if not the flog) on occasion.


----------



## jld

Lol, GI. Whatever makes you two happy.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> :rofl:


:lol::rofl:


----------



## Holland

FalconKing said:


> Holland I thing we are saying the same thing but why do you think a poll here would be skewed? There are so many guys here in sexually frustrating marriages, I think they would love a sexually aggressive women. And based on the responses in this thread, I a fair amount of women definitely would go for it.


Yes I was agreeing with you about the reality the genders wanting the other to initiate. But I don't take polls here seriously at all, it is too small a sample size. Also I usually find that much of what is said here is not the norm in my circle of friends.
The women in my world are pretty much at one with their sexuality, no one I know has read 50 Shades, generally the population here is different to IRL experiences for me. I do think the audience here is not broad enough for most polls that are done.


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Good for you,makes me want to fight for dominance though.:rofl:


I realize one's nature is, well, one's nature. Had a few irritating run ins with the maledoms in the community I was in. Most of them were polite, saw me as a "sister-in-arms," treated me with respect, and did not in any way attempt to "dom" me. But there were a few, that I considered down right rude and arrogant. They would say, in their hubris: "don't you want to submit to me?" 

My answer: Nope.

Actually was the big reason I left any public scene in the end. Just irritated with the ones that wouldn't leave me alone. When I say that I'm a domme, I mean it. I'm not just saying it. I grew sick of the constant barrage. 

I realize you're sort of joking, so I'll give you a pass.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> I realize one's nature is, well, one's nature. Had a few irritating run ins with the maledoms in the community I was in. Most of them were polite, saw me as a "sister-in-arms," treated me with respect, and did not in any way attempt to "dom" me. But there were a few, that I considered down right rude and arrogant. They would say, in their hubris: "don't you want to submit to me?"
> 
> My answer: Nope.
> 
> Actually was the big reason I left any public scene in the end. Just irritated with the ones that wouldn't leave me alone. When I say that I'm a domme, I mean it. I'm not just saying it. I grew sick of the constant barrage.
> 
> I realize you're sort of joking, so I'll give you a pass.


I have no interest in a group of potbellied middle aged dudes and their hippo like subs. The kind of guys I imagine actually go to a club for it instead of living it have to be try hards of the worst kind.Also how can a man be dominant if he doesn't view you as disposable,just move on if you reject him.


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Also how can a man be dominant if he doesn't view you as disposable,just move on if you reject him.


Wait a minute. My husband does not view me as disposable at all. He loves me.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Wait a minute. My husband does not view me as disposable at all. He loves me.


Of course he does I'm sure,but he needs to be able to survive without you.


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> I have no interest in a group of potbellied middle aged dudes and their hippo like subs. The kind of guys I imagine actually go to a club for it instead of living it have to be try hards of the worst kind.Also how can a man be dominant if he doesn't view you as disposable,just move on if you reject him.


I don't know, good question. Perhaps they were just trying to get laid.

Actually, most of the people in that particular group were fairly...what I would call young. In any event, I was truly tired of being bugged about it, so I left it behind. I wish I'd thought of that argument though, back then, about them seeing me as disposable. Please do, I would have told them, and leave me the heck alone. Would have worked perfectly in my favor.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> I don't know, good question. Perhaps they were just trying to get laid.
> 
> Actually, most of the people in that particular group were fairly...what I would call young. In any event, I was truly tired of being bugged about it, so I left it behind. I wish I'd thought of that argument though, back then, about them seeing me as disposable. Please do, I would have told them, and leave me the heck alone. Would have worked perfectly in my favor.


IDK I was raised by Russian parents so we think of women a little different I guess.:scratchhead:


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> Of course he does I'm sure,but he needs to be able to survive without you.


Oh, he can. But I know he would miss me. He loves me very deeply.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Oh, he can. But I know he would miss me. He loves me very deeply.


Same with me and my wife,I mean who would cook me bacon and eggs naked with just a apron.


----------



## jld

Quant and HG, do you feel like it is hard to relate to some things vanilla couples go through, like sexlessness or power struggles?

When I first ran across marriage forums last fall, I was just shocked. I had no idea people were having so many problems in their marriages. My husband was shocked, too.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Quant said:


> *He puts you on a pedestal too much,he needs to realize you are just a person and do things to you he has in his head,just forget about 'respect*'.


You are right about one thing, he's told me that he's always had me on a pedestal.. we've argued about it even.. . But the rest is just not accurate .. he really doesn't have those things in his head.... I was looking up an older thread to explain this ... but seems it mysteriously went







... and I am wondering WHY.. 

He was NEVER the bad boy type.. oh he loves sex, but he's sensual.. he doesn't even like the word Fvck.. not gonna happen.. He's a pleaser... very romantic.. the aggressive is a real struggle... if you are not this sort of man, you will not understand it..

Then I see this too...I've had pms with a couple women here...with the flip side.. he couldn't make love and all he could do is Fvck.. and it was causing problems in their marriage... too much of one thing is not so good... they ended up divorced.. 

Then another woman here...she's pretty satisfied -she likes the aggressive but her complaint is hes not emotional enough.. but it's good enough.. she'll pick her battles.. ..like me.... I get lots of the affection / great Listener, treats me like Gold...but his struggle is here.. 

I guess we all have to stretch ourselves in one way or another !


----------



## Quant

SimplyAmorous said:


> You are right about one thing, he's told me that he's always had me on a pedestal.. we've argued about it even.. . But the rest is just not accurate .. he really doesn't have those things in his head.... I was looking up an older thread to explain this ... but seems it mysteriously went
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and I am wondering WHY..
> 
> He was NEVER the bad boy type.. oh he loves sex, but he's sensual.. he doesn't even like the word Fvck.. not gonna happen.. He's a pleaser... very romantic.. the aggressive is a real struggle... if you are not this sort of man, you will not understand it..
> 
> Then I see this too...I've had pms with a couple women here...with the flip side.. he couldn't make love and all he could do is Fvck.. and it was causing problems in their marriage... too much of one thing is not so good... they ended up divorced..
> 
> Then another woman here...she's pretty satisfied -she likes the aggressive but her complaint is hes not emotional enough.. but it's good enough.. she'll pick her battles.. ..like me.... I get lots of the affection / great Listener, treats me like Gold...but his struggle is here..
> 
> I guess we all have to stretch ourselves in one way or another !


A realistic woman who won't frivorce,refreshing.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Quant and HG, do you feel like it is hard to relate to some things vanilla couples go through, like sexlessness or power struggles?
> 
> When I first ran across marriage forums last fall, I was just shocked. I had no idea people were having so many problems in their marriages. My husband was shocked, too.


A lot of it was,I just thought it was expected for the man to be a in charge from my upbringing.Our roles were decided before we even met because of our culture then combine our natural instincts of dominance and submission and it has been easy to avoid conflict thus far.:iagree:


----------



## HappyGilmore

jld said:


> Quant and HG, do you feel like it is hard to relate to some things vanilla couples go through, like sexlessness or power struggles?
> 
> When I first ran across marriage forums last fall, I was just shocked. I had no idea people were having so many problems in their marriages. My husband was shocked, too.


Very good question, and I think you are right. I have a hard time understanding utter sexlessness in a marriage, but part of it is because I believe that marriage is self giving between two people. If one party isn't in the mood, well, get in the mood (barring serious issues, of course, such as mourning, illness, injury). However, in our relationship, it is expected that my husband put out

As for power struggles, this is not an issue in my marriage. We are both pretty well matched, and our relationship outside the bedroom is fairly egalitarian, but the power balance shifts slightly to me. He doesn't mind, because he says I'm the most reasonable person he has ever met. He calls himself my submissive bear-hunter, and he calls me his queen. 

But, what about those who do not lean either dominant or submissive? How do they avoid power struggles? I believe the secret for anyone is to be reasonable, be willing to compromise, be willing to give of yourself, and be forgiving of the other's flaws.


----------



## FalconKing

Quant said:


> Also how can a man be dominant if he doesn't view you as disposable,just move on if you reject him.



That's kind of what I was thinking when I made this thread. If a man is truly dominant that he doesn't see you as his equal? So how is that attractive as a life partner? 

But I received a lot of clarification. I think a lot of women just want the husband to be dominant in bed but a partner in other regards of the relationship. And some women enjoy their husband being the leader and submitting to him. But it's not a popular opinion to have, some feel.


----------



## jld

People just need to be themselves, and say what they think. We do not all have to agree. It is actually more stimulating to hear a variety of views.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> People just need to be themselves, and say what they think. We do not all have to agree. It is actually more stimulating to hear a variety of views.


How dare you be agreeable you need to get mad at people for having different opinions!


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Very good question, and I think you are right. I have a hard time understanding utter sexlessness in a marriage, but part of it is because I believe that marriage is self giving between two people. If one party isn't in the mood, well, get in the mood (barring serious issues, of course, such as mourning, illness, injury). However, in our relationship, it is expected that my husband put out
> 
> As for power struggles, this is not an issue in my marriage. We are both pretty well matched, and our relationship outside the bedroom is fairly egalitarian, but the power balance shifts slightly to me. He doesn't mind, because he says I'm the most reasonable person he has ever met. He calls himself my submissive bear-hunter, and he calls me his queen.
> 
> But, what about those who do not lean either dominant or submissive? How do they avoid power struggles? I believe the secret for anyone is to be reasonable, be willing to compromise, be willing to give of yourself, and be forgiving of the other's flaws.


I suck at compromises,I guess that makes me a a-hole but it works with us.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

HappyGilmore said:


> I think trying to pull many repressed women out of their shells takes time, and though we can't take the "dirty" out of "dirty talk," they can take the guilt out of these ladies. They need to know that they are not "dirty" or "bad" for wanting these things. A young lady in my class asked me, after a few beers, what was the craziest sexual thing I'd done. I told her she didn't want to know the craziest stuff I've done, but I would tell her one of the tamer things: and she was just shocked when I told her I went to a lesser populated area and had sex in the car with my husband. And this is a girl who reads erotica, is the life of the party, and is otherwise pretty socially outgoing. She said: "oh, that's so daring. So dirty. My husband and I would never do that." Seriously? No sex in the car?! Ever?! It boggles my mind that she of all people would find that to be dirty.


 I can understand her saying "DARING" because you could get caught with your pants down, a police man knocking at your window - like horny teenagers in the back seat.. makes for some







stories....

*But DIRTY.. with your husband*....not dirty (well in a GOOD WAY !)... just a little adventurous!!.. but that's all the FUN... 



> I said "this from a girl who proudly reads 50 shades of grey." She told me: "I find it hot and sexy and all that, and would try it, but what does that say about me? Am I bad for it?" I told her she's not bad, but who knows what kind of social programming she's had that she would have to overcome in order to feel free to engage in something a little out of the ordinary. Sad, really, that she feels guilty about wanting to indulge in some kink with her husband. And, I've talked with other women who share the same sorts of views. Anything beyond missionary with the lights off is only for "bad girls."
> 
> And yes, I've seen that youtube video. Absolutely hilarious! :rofl:


 I see what you mean.. my H was never really the daring type.... not many stories .. but I can think of one he reminded me of.... before we married we were under a bridge near a trailer court ... and we got ourselves off with our hands down our pants, getting carried away in the moment ..

The other times we stuck to our back yard.. we're out in the sticks..no neighbors...the funny thing is - 2 of those times people did come around --the meter reader.. and surveyors when we were on the trampoline just feet away from us.. (We couldn't believe it - of all days !).....we had a sheet.. when they got further back to the woods.. we high tailed it to the door - now when my husband tells this story (too funny to not share at work)... he leaves the sheet out of it... 

Getting caught in our own back yard.. it was exciting ! 

But true...I was one of those who felt more comfortable with the lights dim in our younger years......I mean geez.. we had the Hot bodies then, could I kick myself now -







!! He wasn't one to push the bar with me.. which wasn't helping..



HappyGilmore said:


> Very good question, and I think you are right. I have a hard time understanding utter sexlessness in a marriage, but part of it is because* I believe that marriage is self giving between two people. If one party isn't in the mood, well, get in the mood (barring serious issues, of course, such as mourning, illness, injury).* However, in our relationship, it is expected that my husband put out.
> 
> *As for power struggles, this is not an issue in my marriage. We are both pretty well matched, and our relationship outside the bedroom is fairly egalitarian, but the power balance shifts slightly to me. He doesn't mind, because he says I'm the most reasonable person he has ever met. He calls himself my submissive bear-hunter, and he calls me his queen. *
> 
> But, what about those who do not lean either dominant or submissive? How do they avoid power struggles? I believe the secret for anyone is to be reasonable, be willing to compromise, be willing to give of yourself, and be forgiving of the other's flaws.


 Love your post.. Our marriages sound A LOT alike Happy Gilmore .... that's funny about the submissive bear hunter!...

My H calls me his Queen too...and his "Roller Derby Woman"..


----------



## jld

Quant said:


> How dare you be agreeable you need to get mad at people for having different opinions!


Yep. I need to become ultra controlling. There are only certain correct things to be read! Only certain correct ways of thinking! Otherwise the "correct speech" police will report me!


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> A lot of it was,I just thought it was expected for the man to be a in charge from my upbringing.Our roles were decided before we even met because of our culture then combine our natural instincts of dominance and submission and it has been easy to avoid conflict thus far.:iagree:


Interesting how upbringing can play a lot into it. My dad has always been a chauvinist. I have always defied his expectations of me. I am 38 years old now, and he has finally softened a bit.

As a girl, it wasn't as if I was a smart-mouthed kid. I was a dream child: never touched drugs, stayed away from the bad crowd, did well in school. The only issue my parents had is when I told them they were wrong because they were being illogical. I clearly remember telling my dad that he was being irrational and needed to look at the evidence in front of him. This would often get me sent to my room, which worked in my favor because then I would be left alone to map out how I wanted my life to go. As I grew up, I continued to map out my life, walk my own path, and didn't care about what others thought of me. 

Every so often, my dad makes silly, irrational comments about me being a woman and therefore more emotional, and I just smirk and think "yeah, whatever." I give him a hug and say "I love you dad, but you are so fatally wrong about this." Long ago, he realized he couldn't control me. No one can. That's just the way it is.

Funny, how some of us naturally fit into our upbringing, and yet others rebel with every fiber of our being against it--as if it were a cage, or noose around our necks. I cannot imagine being a submissive in a relationship. I would feel like I was dying of asphyxiation. You cannot imagine not being a dominant. 

This is all very fascinating, to tell you the truth.


----------



## TiggyBlue

FalconKing said:


> That's kind of what I was thinking when I made this thread. If a man is truly dominant that he doesn't see you as his equal? So how is that attractive as a life partner?


Dominant just means having power and influence over others.
There are many different types of dominant people imo.


----------



## Quant

jld said:


> Yep. I need to become ultra controlling. There are only certain correct things to be read! Only certain correct ways of thinking! Otherwise the "correct speech" police will report me!


Yes I am a member of that police unit we are known for our immaturity and fart jokes.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Interesting how upbringing can play a lot into it. My dad has always been a chauvinist. I have always defied his expectations of me. I am 38 years old now, and he has finally softened a bit.
> 
> As a girl, it wasn't as if I was a smart-mouthed kid. I was a dream child: never touched drugs, stayed away from the bad crowd, did well in school. The only issue my parents had is when I told them they were wrong because they were being illogical. I clearly remember telling my dad that he was being irrational and needed to look at the evidence in front of him. This would often get me sent to my room, which worked in my favor because then I would be left alone to map out how I wanted my life to go. As I grew up, I continued to map out my life, walk my own path, and didn't care about what others thought of me.
> 
> Every so often, my dad makes silly, irrational comments about me being a woman and therefore more emotional, and I just smirk and think "yeah, whatever." I give him a hug and say "I love you dad, but you are so fatally wrong about this." Long ago, he realized he couldn't control me. No one can. That's just the way it is.
> 
> Funny, how some of us naturally fit into our upbringing, and yet others rebel with every fiber of our being against it--as if it were a cage, or noose around our necks. I cannot imagine being a submissive in a relationship. I would feel like I was dying of asphyxiation. You cannot imagine not being a dominant.
> 
> This is all very fascinating, to tell you the truth.


Now don't get too overly emotional now but I bet me and your dad would agree on a lot.

But seriously I agree our upbringings are a factor in our development but I think our genetic endowment is the controlling factor in our behavior more then people would like to believe.The idea we are molded and born a blank canvas just does not mesh with modern research on development,but I guess we need not disturb the myth of human equality at birth.:scratchhead:


----------



## HappyGilmore

TiggyBlue said:


> Dominant just means having power and influence over others.
> There are many different types of dominant people imo.


This is so true, TB. I treat my husband with the utmost respect. He submits to me from his strength, not his weakness. I'm not into degrading or humiliating him. I don't do sissy-boys, brats, or SAMs. He submits as a choice, and I love him and respect him all the more for it. He submits only to me...others would see him as a man's man, masculine as can be. 

I don't see him as disposable. He is the love of my life He serves me out of his love for me. I take care of him out of my love for him. 

And if anyone were to call him weak, I could tell you that he is more of a man than many of those so-called alpha-males are. In fact, he has no use for such silly labels. No one disrespects him.


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Now don't get too overly emotional now but I bet me and your dad would agree on a lot.
> 
> But seriously I agree our upbringings are a factor in our development but I think our genetic endowment is the controlling factor in our behavior more then people would like to believe.The idea we are molded and born a blank canvas just does not mesh with modern research on development,but I guess we need not disturb the myth of human equality at birth.:scratchhead:


There will, however, be outliers, exceptions, and those born somewhat different. 

You are so very funny..."myth" of human equality...are you trying to rile me up?  Because, I have no such emotional disturbance at your rather unusual statements.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> There will, however, be outliers, exceptions, and those born somewhat different.
> 
> You are so very funny..."myth" of human equality...are you trying to rile me up?  Because, I have no such emotional disturbance at your rather unusual statements.


Nah not trying to rile you up just saying my opinion.I'm rather eccentric in my views besides being a teasing flirt. Certainly outliers exist but that still comes from a probabilistic outcome from the cluster of genes you have been granted from birth.People with Down's Syndrome are just a extreme case of the bell curve of likely outcomes just as someone with a extremely high IQ is.


----------



## TiggyBlue

HappyGilmore said:


> There will, however, be outliers, exceptions, and those born somewhat different.


Very true, siblings are good example of that a lot of the time.
Same genetics and same upbringing but can end up with completely different personality traits.


----------



## Quant

TiggyBlue said:


> Very true, siblings are good example of that a lot of the time.
> Same genetics and same upbringing but can end up with completely different personality traits.


More heritable then you think. Heritability of the big five personality dimensions a... [J Pers. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Nah not trying to rile you up just saying my opinion.I'm rather eccentric in my views besides being a teasing flirt. Certainly outliers exist but that still comes from a probabilistic outcome from the cluster of genes you have been granted from birth.People with Down's Syndrome are just a extreme case of the bell curve of likely outcomes just as someone with a extremely high IQ is.


Yes, of course. However, let us remember that a person with Down's syndrome has equal dignity and is deserving of equal concern as a person who is not born with it. 

People are born with differing levels of aptitude, but are born with the same rights and humanity as everyone else. 

Yes, I'll admit it. I'm a humanist.


----------



## HappyGilmore

TiggyBlue said:


> Very true, siblings are good example of that a lot of the time.
> Same genetics and same upbringing but can end up with completely different personality traits.


This is why we must be cautious in making generalizations based on race, ethnicity, or gender.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Yes, of course. However, let us remember that a person with Down's syndrome has equal dignity and is deserving of equal concern as a person who is not born with it.
> 
> People are born with differing levels of aptitude, but are born with the same rights and humanity as everyone else.
> 
> Yes, I'll admit it. I'm a humanist.


Nihilist here,we are like oil and water watch out.

Aptitude must be how we value human life or "humanists" would never be pro choice based on the argument that the fetus is a potential person and deserves the same rights.But they make a arbitrary distinction based on the development of the living entity,no different than the child with Down's syndrome.I'm pro choice but I have no illusions of its humanity as a fetus and its potential for full consciousness.


----------



## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> This is why we must be cautious in making generalizations based on race, ethnicity, or gender.


Race and ethnicity yes because we have little in the way of data or research to come to a conclusion but with gender there is much in the way of research when it comes to gender difference.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

SA,

It's pretty ridiculous that somebody sent you that PM. What works for your marriage is all that matters. Your definition of "giving" is exactly what mine is. Giving because you want to and enjoy the sexual rewards.


----------



## heartsbeating

HappyGilmore said:


> Funny, how some of us naturally fit into our upbringing, and yet others rebel with every fiber of our being against it--as if it were a cage, or noose around our necks. I cannot imagine being a submissive in a relationship. I would feel like I was dying of asphyxiation. You cannot imagine not being a dominant.
> 
> This is all very fascinating, to tell you the truth.


I like what you wrote about your growing up and how it's shaped you. And I would indeed buy your book lol.

Growing up, particularly at school, I challenged authority. I didn't run with the crowd, I'd step in when someone was being picked-on, and was spontaneous and walked my own path. At times, I _was_ the bad influence (as well as the good). With our marriage, a dynamic of control and dominance would not work for me. I'd feel stifled. I value the balance we find with one other.

However, what initially attracted my husband became a double-edged sword. The very things he loves about me were the very things that made him feel uneasy with me - such as I thrive on change, he craves stability. We have come to a better place of understanding one another so that needs are met. He no longer has that on-edge feeling. I've lowered the walls I didn't realize I had that contributed to that. 

Back to the play-ground though - aged 6, game of kiss-chase and slowing for the boy I liked 'oh no, you caught me!' ...and being 'made' to receive that kiss on the cheek.


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Nihilist here,we are like oil and water watch out.
> 
> Aptitude must be how we value human life or "humanists" would never be pro choice based on the argument that the fetus is a potential person and deserves the same rights.But they make a arbitrary distinction based on the development of the living entity,no different than the child with Down's syndrome.I'm pro choice but I have no illusions of its humanity as a fetus and its potential for full consciousness.


I do not want to derail the thread with a discussion about abortion, nihilism, and humanism. These topics can lead to very heated discussions, hence my concern about a thread derail. If you'd like, we can discuss this via PM.


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## HappyGilmore

heartsbeating said:


> I like what you wrote about your growing up and how it's shaped you. And I would indeed buy your book lol.
> *You are too kind.  Thank you. I am in the midst of writing a book, but it is more of a dark sci-fi/fantasy and isn't in the least bit about eroticism  *
> 
> Growing up, particularly at school, I challenged authority. I didn't run with the crowd, I'd step in when someone was being picked-on, and was spontaneous and walked my own path. At times, I _was_ the bad influence (as well as the good). With our marriage, a dynamic of control and dominance would not work for me. I'd feel stifled. I value the balance we find with one other.
> 
> However, what initially attracted my husband became a double-edged sword. The very things he loves about me were the very things that made him feel uneasy with me - such as I thrive on change, he craves stability. We have come to a better place of understanding one another so that needs are met. He no longer has that on-edge feeling. I've lowered the walls I didn't realize I had that contributed to that.
> *Through the course of any marriage, people grow together. Yours is a lovely example of that.*
> 
> Back to the play-ground though - aged 6, game of kiss-chase and slowing for the boy I liked 'oh no, you caught me!' ...and being 'made' to receive that kiss on the cheek.


Yes, and hence the difference between full-time D/s and D/s in the bedroom only. And, as you can tell by what I've written thus far in this thread, there is nothing at all wrong with it.


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Race and ethnicity yes because we have little in the way of data or research to come to a conclusion but with gender there is much in the way of research when it comes to gender difference.


About rough sex or being "taken?" What could possibly go wrong if you just assume all women want to be taken and owned?


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## DvlsAdvc8

Holland said:


> If men want to learn more and understand women's sexuality they need to open their minds and talk to women.


That's just it... most of my perception has come from women. It's left a sense that the rough sex is predominantly "for" me, and the lovey/sensual sex is "for" her (obvious each enjoys both, but hopefully you get what I'm saying... more a preference).

My experience has mostly been that women aren't very forthcoming with their sexual preferences beyond what they explicitly don't like and when you do get a statement of preference - it always seems to be the stereotypical sweet things.

It's like asking a woman what she wants to eat. 99% of the time they have no idea and hate being asked. Rather, they want me to pick something while having veto power if they don't like what I pick. It's so common I don't even ask anymore - I just suggest a place I want.


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## DvlsAdvc8

FalconKing said:


> He deleted the thread. I don't blame him. He may not even remember this, but I thought that was just so wrong.
> 
> I don't think there is anything wrong with getting advice from both sexes, but I think the best advice would come from someone who is in the type of relationship you want.


I remember it. I deleted the thread because my questions/curiosity on the subject were spun into my being insecure by those who became defensive about my explaining the mixed messages I perceive. In particular, certain doubts - even vulnerabilities - I've had in response to some of the apparent preferences of women I've been with. It devolved from questioning female preferences into a couple posters questioning my security. Fending off an attack on insecurity just verifies the attacker's position, so I just deleted the thread. It wasn't worth the time or providing any insight.


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## DvlsAdvc8

ocotillo said:


> How primitive is primitive? From the time of _H. heidelbergensis_ and probably before, even the strongest of us have been fragile creatures, remarkably easy to kill.
> 
> Men tend to judge other men by their height and the size of their upper arms and chest, so it might make sense after a fashion to imagine that characters like Drogo from _Game of Thrones_ pretty much took what they wanted. The reality is a big rock to the back of the head even from a much smaller male and poor Drogo is deader than a doornail.
> 
> Because of this, humans have always been about partnerships, alliances, families, clans, tribes, etc. Power resides in the strength of the social group more so than the strength of an individual. Some men who attained this power undoubtedly were big, strong and aggressive too, but judging from more recent history, many were not.


What you're missing here is that big/strong/aggressive/charismatic... ie "dominant"... males attract *males* too. The star athlete is rarely short of friends.

When we talk about a human alpha - we're in fact talking less about raw physical strength, and more about presence (being bigger/stronger is just a helpful contributor). ie - Drogo is a bad @ss... and I want to be on his team. The coat tails strategy.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Quant said:


> Desire to me and most men I know is about what you'll allow us to do to you.


I disagree. Over the short term, you're fine. If that's all she ever does, I think most men will lose interest. That's awfully one-sided desire.


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## ocotillo

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What you're missing here is that big/strong/aggressive/charismatic... ie "dominant"... males attract *males* too. The star athlete is rarely short of friends.



I think that's what was missing from the post I was responding to. Humans tolerate inbreeding much, much less than most other species and primitive peoples that actually survived for any length of time invariably adopted some form of exogamy. Tribes could be divided into moieties where marriages had to take place across moiety lines, brides could be purchased or traded for with friendly tribes, brides could be kidnapped from less friendly tribes and sometimes unfriendly tribes were conquered in war. In all instances, we're talking about the workings of groups and some fairly rigid social conventions that governed them. It was rarely a free-for-all and the idea that women have been conditioned for millennia to be taken by the biggest, strongest man around just doesn't wash.

Being big, strong, aggressive and charismatic is certainly an asset, but doesn't make you clever or smart, it doesn't give you any skill with weapons, it doesn't make you a brilliant tactician, it doesn't make you good with horses or any other animals that primitive societies depended upon for war and doesn't make you adept at politics. That would be a rare and expensive combination, to plagiarize a movie line. 

Like you said, it's not so much about raw physical strength.


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## Quant

committed4ever said:


> Quant I am curious about how you came to be seemingly a very confident domme? Just glancing at your other threads your wife was the one who initially put this forward in your marriage (I could be wrong). Since you had to ask on the board only last year about ways to meet her desire for rough sex, I can only assume dom/sub was fairly new to you as recently as last year? So did you read a lot, or did you wife teach you? It seems Or perhaps once you got into it, it was just the most natural thing for you?
> 
> I know that I discovering I wanted some kink was a very quick process for me because although initially it alarmed my H (he thought I wanted a full blown BDSM 24/7 relationship), he had plenty of freaky relationships before me but he was my first relationship.
> 
> Just wondering how that played out for you.


Basically I was already dominant in my business life and in our relationship.Then tried it realized that I loved it and was good at it and here we are.Also the wife enjoys it too.


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## Blossom Leigh

ocotillo said:


> I think that's what was missing from the post I was responding to. Humans tolerate inbreeding much, much less than most other species and primitive peoples that actually survived for any length of time invariably adopted some form of exogamy. Tribes could be divided into moieties where marriages had to take place across moiety lines, brides could be purchased or traded for with friendly tribes, brides could be kidnapped from less friendly tribes and sometimes unfriendly tribes were conquered in war. In all instances, we're talking about the workings of groups and some fairly rigid social conventions that governed them. It was rarely a free-for-all and the idea that women have been conditioned for millennia to be taken by the biggest, strongest man around just doesn't wash.
> 
> Being big, strong, aggressive and charismatic is certainly an asset, but doesn't make you clever or smart, it doesn't give you any skill with weapons, it doesn't make you a brilliant tactician, it doesn't make you good with horses or any other animals that primitive societies depended upon for war and doesn't make you adept at politics. That would be a rare and expensive combination, to plagiarize a movie line.
> 
> Like you said, it's not so much about raw physical strength.


Totally agree.. a large part of my H's dominance is his intelligence. Just when I think I've out maneuvered him, he one ups me and is exhilerating!


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> About rough sex or being "taken?" What could possibly go wrong if you just assume all women want to be taken and owned?


Its a good assumption and even if I'm wrong I can make a new friend.
BTW here's research on female sexual preferences and they like to be dominated. The nature of women's rape fantasies: an a... [J Sex Res. 2009 Jan-Feb] - PubMed - NCBI


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Its a good assumption and even if I'm wrong I can make a new friend.
> 
> *I can see it now: "Oh, I forced myself sexually on you and you didn't want it? Oops, my bad. Can we shake on this and go get a beer?" :rofl:*
> 
> BTW here's research on female sexual preferences and they like to be dominated. The nature of women's rape fantasies: an a... [J Sex Res. 2009 Jan-Feb] - PubMed - NCBI


Too bad this was only the abstract. I would have liked to see their p values and confidence intervals. 

And though 62% admitted to such fantasies, this means also that 38% of the sample size of 355 would probably pepper spray you. Also, 9% found these fantasies that they had to be completely aversive, and 46% found them to be both erotic _and_ aversive. Interesting study. But it is hard to generalize from a group of 355 college co-eds to the general population.


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Too bad this was only the abstract. I would have liked to see their p values and confidence intervals.
> 
> And though 62% admitted to such fantasies, this means also that 38% of the sample size of 355 would probably pepper spray you. Also, 9% found these fantasies that they had to be completely aversive, and 46% found them to be both erotic _and_ aversive. Interesting study. But it is hard to generalize from a group of 355 college co-eds to the general population.


BOO a woman who knows statistics,I can't bust out studies when debating you. Also I don't just start out tearing a girls clothes off I'm not such a caveman geeze.I'd talk with her to feel her out first and talk dirty.


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## TiggyBlue

HappyGilmore said:


> Too bad this was only the abstract. I would have liked to see their p values and confidence intervals.
> 
> And though 62% admitted to such fantasies, this means also that 38% of the sample size of 355 would probably pepper spray you. Also, 9% found these fantasies that they had to be completely aversive, and 46% found them to be both erotic _and_ aversive. Interesting study. But it is hard to generalize from a group of 355 college co-eds to the general population.


Plus a fantasy is something you ultimately dominate, even if it is about being dominated.


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## Thor

HappyGilmore said:


> About rough sex or being "taken?" What could possibly go wrong if you just assume all women want to be taken and owned?


Women with trauma histories don't do well with not being in control.


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## Blossom Leigh

Thor said:


> Women with trauma histories don't do well with not being in control.



This is certainly an important point, yet some traumas cause craving to be dominated.


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## aston

firebelly1 said:


> Being dominated and being abused are not the same thing. One aspect I like about being dominated is I don't have to make any decisions. But it works out because the decisions my partner makes are ones where he knows what I like and is still looking after my needs, because we've talked about it ahead of time, and he does those things without me having to ask for or initiate them in bed. That's kind of what being dominated means to me.
> 
> Rough sex is a different thing. You are sort of dominating her physically, but if she likes that, what's wrong with that? If you are both enjoying the experience you are having, then it IS equal.


True Story: A GF once confided she had rough sex, rape and physical domination fantasy and she wanted me to do it to her at my place starting in the garage and into my room as part of role playing.
I did it but not before she signed a notarized release form.


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> BOO a woman who knows statistics,I can't bust out studies when debating you. Also I don't just start out tearing a girls clothes off I'm not such a caveman geeze.I'd talk with her to feel her out first and talk dirty.


So, you see, you don't automatically assume it. You first try to see that she is "into" it, before the garment-ripping commences. Which is a wise decision.


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## HappyGilmore

committed4ever said:


> Happy Gilmore, I know my opinion is a little like coming from the peanut gallery, but can I just say that you are one of the most refreshing "new" posters I have seen around here in awhile. I like your style!
> 
> You remind me a little of Getting It. Both of you could write a book!
> 
> \end threadjack


Thank you, Committed4Ever. I appreciate the compliments, especially in being compared to Getting It. She appears to me to be a very insightful person.


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> So, you see, you don't automatically assume it. You first try to see that she is "into" it, before the garment-ripping commences. Which is a wise decision.


We all must make certain baseline assumption though or we'd have trouble functioning in society.


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> Thank you, Committed4Ever. I appreciate the compliments, especially in being compared to Getting It. She appears to me to be a very insightful person.


I never get compliments.'cries'


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> I never get compliments.'cries'


There, there. Okay, here you go: if that is your suit in the avatar, it's a very sharp one. Good taste.


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> There, there. Okay, here you go: if that is your suit in the avatar, it's a very sharp one. Good taste.


Thanks I am a very delicous or so the gay guy who hit on me said on the subway.


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## SimplyAmorous

Just catching up here...



Therealbrighteyes said:


> SA,
> 
> *It's pretty ridiculous that somebody sent you that PM*. What works for your marriage is all that matters. Your definition of "giving" is exactly what mine is. Giving because you want to and enjoy the sexual rewards.


I am not bothered when people disagree and want a little debate... if they are honest & true in it.. I LIKE IT, I invite it...

.. I only get upset when I feel others think I'm an idiot for how I feel (this does ruffle my feathers) ...this is why I go into such depth to present another side sometimes... If you all can put up with me...and my lengthy posts.. I'm happy! 

None of us want to feel like we need "Changed" for how we feel.. I think we'd all agree on that. 



FalconKing said:


> That's kind of what I was thinking when I made this thread. If a man is truly dominant that he doesn't see you as his equal? So how is that attractive as a life partner?
> 
> But I received a lot of clarification. *I think a lot of women just want the husband to be dominant in bed but a partner in other regards of the relationship*. And some women enjoy their husband being the leader and submitting to him. But it's not a popular opinion to have, some feel.


YES (in blue)....I need EQUAL outside the bedroom.. one thing that I have always appreciated --though never thought much about it before landing here....(as I don't think all men are like this).. Mine always brings everything to me... shares it with me.. meaning decisions...anything that has the potential to affect our finances, our kids, our life, our day ... he WANTS my input..he values my opinion.. we keep each other informed, there is no surprises - I don't mean little things but the type that you'd say later "Why didn't you tell me ?" type thing...

We always get each others "take"....and go forth together... and I am the same...

It's not something I ever had to ask for ... he's just THIS way.. this works greatly with someone with my personality... I like to be informed/ know what's happening...being a part of the process. ya know...



> *Quant said* : But seriously I agree our upbringings are a factor in our development *but I think our genetic endowment is the controlling factor in our behavior more then people would like to believe.*


I believe it's our inborn temperaments that make the biggest difference...


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## Quant

SimplyAmorous said:


> Just catching up here...
> 
> 
> 
> I am not bothered when people disagree and want a little debate... if they are honest & true in it.. I LIKE IT, I invite it...
> 
> .. I only get upset when I feel others think I'm an idiot for how I feel (this does ruffle my feathers) ...this is why I go into such depth to present another side sometimes... If you all can put up with me...and my lengthy posts.. I'm happy!
> 
> None of us want to feel like we need "Changed" for how we feel.. I think we'd all agree on that.
> 
> 
> 
> YES (in blue)....I need EQUAL outside the bedroom.. one thing that I have always appreciated --though never thought much about it before landing here....(as I don't think all men are like this).. Mine always brings everything to me... shares it with me.. meaning decisions...anything that has the potential to affect our finances, our kids, our life, our day ... he WANTS my input..he values my opinion.. we keep each other informed, there is no surprises - I don't mean little things but the type that you'd say later "Why didn't you tell me ?" type thing...
> 
> We always get each others "take"....and go forth together... and I am the same...
> 
> It's not something I ever had to ask for ... he's just THIS way.. this works greatly with someone with my personality... I like to be informed/ know what's happening...being a part of the process. ya know...
> 
> I believe it's our inborn temperaments that make the biggest difference...


People who feel a need to attack are projecting their own unhappiness.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Quant said:


> We all must make certain baseline assumption though or we'd have trouble functioning in society.


I think in this case, the assumption should be that she doesn't want it unless she expressly says otherwise. Ignoring that is at your own peril.


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## Therealbrighteyes

HappyGilmore said:


> There, there. Okay, here you go: if that is your suit in the avatar, it's a very sharp one. Good taste.


No kidding. If I could ask one thing of men, stop with the boxy American suits and spring for a European cut one like the avatar. It makes you look leaner, younger and more polished. Figures he's from NYC. Those guys don't play around.


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## Quant

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think in this case, the assumption should be that she doesn't want it unless she expressly says otherwise. Ignoring that is at your own peril.


An assumption does not necessitate an action.So don't worry I'll be alright.


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## Quant

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No kidding. If I could ask one thing of men, stop with the boxy American suits and spring for a European cut one like the avatar. It makes you look leaner, younger and more polished. Figures he's from NYC. Those guys don't play around.


I'd rather wear sweatpants to work but I gotta wear a pimp suit.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Quant said:


> I'd rather wear sweatpants to work but I gotta wear a pimp suit.


IB or law?


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## Quant

Therealbrighteyes said:


> IB or law?


Hedge fund,hedgies tend to wear louder suits then IB or law.I can dress down sometimes but I run the shop so I have to dress up for meetings.


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## GettingIt_2

HappyGilmore said:


> Thank you, Committed4Ever. I appreciate the compliments, especially in being compared to Getting It. She appears to me to be a very insightful person.


Gee thanks. I find it interesting that we are similar in our analysis and understanding of the D/s dynamic, yet you prefer to dominate your husband and I prefer to be made to submit to mine. 

My husband and I have spent quite a lot of time learning about the psychology behind D/s, and one thing we've noticed it that the people in the lifestyle are more alike to one another (whether they be Dom or sub or switches) than they are to folks without the kink at all. There is something about people who eroticize power, and who enjoy playing with it in their relationships.


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## HappyGilmore

Quant said:


> Thanks I am a very delicous or so the gay guy who hit on me said on the subway.


See, you _do_ get complimented!


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## Quant

HappyGilmore said:


> See, you _do_ get complimented!


Psh,I'm also ever so smart as you know.


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