# Advice please



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

As those of you who have read my story know, my husband's girlfriend wrote an email to me pretending to be him. It came about because I had emailed him asking if he was still willing to help our son financially to find a job and get established in a new city. Before he left us, the husband had said that we would help him when he was ready to go. The email I got back said no, he would not help, that he had helped enough in the past (our son, C, has a drug problem). I wrote back saying that I guess his moving out had changed things and that I would find a way to help C myself. It was not said in a nasty or accusing way. I got back a long, rather nasty email complaining about me up and down and sideways. I waited until I calmed down, then responded to each point as reasonably as I could. A little later, my husband emailed me saying to disregard the email, that he had not written it. In the end he claimed that his account had been hacked or that the computer had a virus. There were too many personal details that weren't in any of the previous emails the husband and I had exchanged for it to be a hacker. I immediately knew that the girlfriend had written the email.

Well, yesterday he emailed me asking if C had an idea as to when he would need money. I waited all day (long live the 180!), then emailed back asking why he was asking as I understood he was not going to help. Today he answered that I need to delete the emails that he did not write and that C should let us know what he needs and when.

So, I have written a response and would really appreciate your input before I send it. Needless to say, I am not deleting the OW's emails. Should she do anything stupid in the future, these will be historical evidence should I need to take matters further.

Here is what I have written. What do you think? Any suggestions?


When you told me to disregard the email, you referred specifically to the one that ‘was sent six hours ago’, leaving me to think that the original one in the series was from you. Therefore, I believed that you would not help (our son's name). 

Beyond the distress inflicted on me, the fallout form your girlfriend’s (the minute you said that you weren’t responsible, I knew who was) actions has been twofold. In order to help our son on my own, I withdrew a large sum from my insurance policy. Further, because (our son’s name) knew that I was contacting you regarding financial help, when he asked I had to tell him that you wouldn’t be helping. I did not put you down in any way. I simply said that you could not help. However, I know from his reaction that this was another hurt for a kid who is already feeling that it was his fault his father left. 

I thought you should know.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

less is more. he's definitely "up to something". neither confirm nor assuage. If he's covering his tracks then you should think about not offering any further evidence that could help or harm you.

why do you think that he didn't write the offensive email? his quoted response is definitely suspicious.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

WOW! She sounds like real catch, perfect woman he'll live happily ever after with.... When pigs fly and hell freezes over!

She already shown what a control freak and clingy jealous b!tch she can be, so just sit back and let her blow it all on her own. She's got ex girlfriend written all over her and I think he sees it too but needs a few WTF moments before he sees her as not what she promised to be.

Honey, you're doing perfect. Keep up the 180 and don't let on how hurt you may be by anything he does. That's what TAM is for. If you can keep up with the 180 and treat your husband as a distant friend and coparent you'll see her perfect charade melt away and little hitler come forth.

Btw, *DO NOT* fall for any gaslighting he may try to get you to believe the email was an accident. Don't defend him or open up to him and give him anything he can use as ammo against you. He needs to deal with any guilt or anxiety on his own without displacing those feelings unnecessarily on you. If you allow him to mistreat you he will lose respect for you! Let him go to her for a shoulder to cry on marriage counselor.... because a man complaining all the time is really attractive:rofl:

I'm sorry I can't elaborate more on this tonight as I'm dead tired.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> less is more. he's definitely "up to something". neither confirm nor assuage. If he's covering his tracks then you should think about not offering any further evidence that could help or harm you.
> 
> why do you think that he didn't write the offensive email? his quoted response is definitely suspicious.


While you could be right, Orpheus, there are a couple of reasons I believe he didn't write it. It did not sound like him at all. Reading it, I thought he had undergone a complete personality change. Also, I know him. Yes, you're right, I didn't know him enough to see his leaving coming, but apart from that he has never been cruel as was the email. Also some of the complaints about me in the email were so far out, he would have known I could easily debunk them. For example, it said that I should have opted for pay over 12 months rather than the 10 of the school year and I should have had my own savings account. Both of these things were things he and I had discussed and decided on together. Neither of us had separate savings account. We didn't even have $100 in the joint savings account. With the renos and helping our son to the tune of thousands, we had no savings.

Through all of this, he has been fibacially supportive (once he got over the shock of the amount of the child support). He has continued paying the house phone/internet and the TV bills for the summer even tho' he is not using them. Once I start getting paid again, he plans to continue giving me money above and beyond the child support, which he doesn't have to. He has always come through for our son in a big way, so it really shocked me to read that he would not.

No, I'm positive it was the OW. Which speaks loudly of her morals.

The quoted response is the way he talks. He is a bit 'odd'!


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> WOW! She sounds like real catch, perfect woman he'll live happily ever after with.... When pigs fly and hell freezes over!
> 
> She already shown what a control freak and clingy jealous b!tch she can be, so just sit back and let her blow it all on her own. She's got ex girlfriend written all over her and I think he sees it too but needs a few WTF moments before he sees her as not what she promised to be.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Nsweet. I think I saw some guilt or shame the last time he was over to work on the house. His hands were shaking and he couldn't even look at me. He has also remarked in emails that he is worn out and a couple of days ago, said he needs to recharge his batteries. So either, she is wearing him out emotionally or the Cialis is working and the poor dumb fool is physically exhausted! I'm hoping for the first onbe, but either way its not my problem.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

FF, sounds like you know what you're heading into. Just remember that it's pretty "odd" and to protect yourself first and to not excuse away his responsibility. 

If his account was hacked by the OW, then he should have just said so rather than these ludicrous stories that only make things worse.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> FF, sounds like you know what you're heading into. Just remember that it's pretty "odd" and to protect yourself first and to not excuse away his responsibility.
> 
> If his account was hacked by the OW, then he should have just said so rather than these ludicrous stories that only make things worse.


Thanks for your concern, Orpheus. I will be careful. 

It would have been nice if he had simply said it was her, but he hates confrontation and may have been worried I would have freaked. And I think this may have been an attempt to save face. I mean, look what he has hooked up with! (is that catty of me?! Good!)


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

No it's the emotional toll of doing something he knows is wrong. Going against your own morals is not only psychologically taxing but physically as well. Ever seen a news reporter speak gibberish all of a sudden? That's why. This also may lead him to certain self destructive attitudes, so be on the lookout. I know my wife had to be put on an antidepressant because she started showing signs of severe depression, and she was the one cheating and lying to everyone. 

His actions also means what you are doing is working in your favor, you actually want him to try to push you away so you can 180 and let him experience a bit of the fear of loss. The better you treat him for his good behavior and pull away when he's bad, the better he'll treat you if he wants to hear from you. Pavlov at his greatest here! But there's going to be a catch. A lot of trials await you before you see anything resembling the man you married in marriage or divorce. You're going to see his many bipolar personalities hoovering you towards him, pushing you away, justifying his affair, and punishing you for no reason... all of this has to do with fear, shame, guilt, depression, and anxiety. Just walk away and be the adult and you should be fine.

The real problems will come with divorce if this train wreck can't be stopped. If she ends up getting her claws on him there is more than likely going to be a renewed honeymoon as she will act really nice and artificial to hold up her charade as promised. Don't worry, all that smoke she blew up his ass will dissipate and they'll go through the same fights. Except I believe affair couples fight more due to an overwhelming sense of distrust since they are both cheaters, and high anxiety to keep up those promises. To put it another way, if she promised him blowjobs and massages every nite she better keep doing it or else there will be disillusionment and disqualifying thoughts in him. 

If you're hoping for reconciliation you really have nothing to fear as you share children and he will be part of your life, basically forever if he is a family man. But more importantly their love affair most likely won't last two years, if that, because neither one of them have the relationship tools to keep a normal relationship healthy. If they did he would work harder to keep his marriage happy, and she would respect his marriage to you and not try to puck him up when he's most vulnerable. 

You've got a few options here you can do immediately. If he's living with you implement the 180 and be consistently on your best behavior. You don't want to give him any ammo to share with her and justify his affair as "you AP, are so much better than that crazy b!tch". On the other hand if he's living in another place, out of town for example. You need to also be on your best behavior but basically wish him well and let her have him. I know it sound counter intuitive but it will just end their affair faster when the sex she's giving dries up and she starts getting demanding for the attention he love-bombed with her with when they were dating, er. destroying his marriage. Sine affair couples tend to side step the boring but all too necessary comfort stage of a relationship it stands to reason that they will look at each other one day and see they have nothing in common but sex.... that is with men at least, women feed off of the emotional comfort and validation but that also dries up because the OM has no respect for a cheater. That's why cheaters don't marry that often.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> No it's the emotional toll of doing something he knows is wrong. Going against your own morals is not only psychologically taxing but physically as well. Ever seen a news reporter speak gibberish all of a sudden? That's why. This also may lead him to certain self destructive attitudes, so be on the lookout. I know my wife had to be put on an antidepressant because she started showing signs of severe depression, and she was the one cheating and lying to everyone.
> 
> His actions also means what you are doing is working in your favor, you actually want him to try to push you away so you can 180 and let him experience a bit of the fear of loss. The better you treat him for his good behavior and pull away when he's bad, the better he'll treat you if he wants to hear from you. Pavlov at his greatest here! But there's going to be a catch. A lot of trials await you before you see anything resembling the man you married in marriage or divorce. You're going to see his many bipolar personalities hoovering you towards him, pushing you away, justifying his affair, and punishing you for no reason... all of this has to do with fear, shame, guilt, depression, and anxiety. Just walk away and be the adult and you should be fine.
> 
> ...


Hmm, I hadn't thought it could be the emotional toll on him. He is already on antidepressants, has been for a few years.

He is living with her. Sometimes I think they deserve each other. He is a cheater. She got involved with a married man and she hacked his email and pretended to be him. I don't know her history, but R did tell me a couple of things back before he finally told me that he was involved with her and I thought he was just renting a room in this woman's house. Trying to converse pleasantly, I asked if there were children in the house. She runs a daycare, but also has two kids in their early 20's who don't live at home and a 9 year old who does. So the man who was revelling in his own kids being older and not needing so much hands-on parenting has now plunked himself into a situation with a younger child. He said he couldn't relate to his own daughter, well, guess what, Buddy, you are in for more hormones and teenage angst!

You are right, neither one has the skills needed to maintain a relationship. The gap in her kids age may indicate that she has already been in two relationships. That assumption could be wrong, but the fact that there are kids means at least one past relationship. Unless she's a widow, it means a failed relationship.

I guess time will tell.

Going back to his sense of financial responsibility, I should add that when I went to the bank to discuss our Line of Credit, I learned something. We owed $44,000, meaning I owe $22,000. R has taken his own LOC and used it to pay off his half of the joint one. He said that that way, if I ever need to, I could borrow against the full amount of the joint one which is $50,000 (please God I never need to do that). Now the joint one shows up when he accesses online banking. I wanted to either have his name removed or get my own LOC and close the joint one so that R cannot see if I borrow or pay down my share. Anyway, talking to the guy at the bank, I found out that a) his name can't just be removed without a legal separation notice which we don't have, b) I may not be eligible for enough LOC to cover what I want to cover, c) if I did get my own LOC, it would be at today's interest which is way higher than what the joint one is. That means that R is paying a lot more interest now. Because the joint one has a lower amount owing due to his payment, my monthly minimum payment is now $70 lower. This is great news because the monthly payment was only covering the interest. If I leave it at the same amount, it will now be touching the principal, which in turn will lower my monthly payment even more. Needless to say, after hearing all this, I am leaving it as a joint LOC. Who cares if he can see it! 

R is quite astute when it comes to finances. He knew what he did would cost him more and he knew that it would help me out financially.  For all his faults, this is a man who takes care of his family financially. He did not write the email saying he would not help our son.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

You see… He left one stable family for a house full of other people's kids. How long do you thing that will work out? It's hard enough keeping up the romance with just one but imagine how disappointed he will be when she's too tired for him day after day from care-taking all day long. This is why affairs often end in disappointment. You have no idea what kinds of problems the other person has until you're in too deep. She could be an alcoholic serial cheater for all he knows.

Forget about the financial stuff for the time being. If you're not suffering out in the cold then you don't need this kind of stress adding to these relationship issues in your life. He knows he is going to be losing much more from divorce than you. Believe it or not, cheaters are only happy for a short while after divorce and then start to have their doubts. They said they were going to marry someday, but after it's all over they don't want to go through that same kind of emotional trauma. 

Let me point something out to you. If what you say is correct and this girl has been divorced before it's likely that she's been playing the victim and telling your husband how she's never been loved before because she only meets jerks. He to himself "I can rescue her and show her true love", and for the time being she says he's everything she ever wanted. To her he is Mr. Wonderful and everything she could ever want in a man. But that's going to last for long. Ever hear of the emotional abusers game plan? It goes: Gain sympathy, rescue me, eliminate competition, clingy as hell, Keep making me happy or else, lil hitler, and life of hell. Right now he her rescuer and will go to great lengths to defend her and keep her up on that pedestal. Next she'll try to keep him away from you and all other women. Then she'll start getting way too clingy and asking where he is when he's not with her, she'll also start causing problems to get him to stay close to her.... because she knows he can cheat on her too. After that she'll either use sex as a weapon or make threats to leave cheat to get him to treat her like a princess again. And finally she'll have his balls in a vice and he'll be stuck with a psycho b!tch or a emotionally draining high maintenance woman.

Your only option in all of this is to be friendly and on your best behavior. Any fight you have with him will just push him further away and justify his reason to leave. Since he's living with her you have more freedom to vent and cry as needed but you should never let him know your hurt. You will completely take the joy out of his affair if you act like this is exactly what you want and start seeing other men. Let him know he can be just as easily replaced without trying to make him jealous. It's not about sex or deep companionship, it's about you getting out of the house and enjoying yourself. Trust me, you'll have plenty of time to think about this later, but right now you need to get yourself out of pain and feel admired by others for your traits he took for granted.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Our family wasn't stable. Our son's drug problem, losing a job because of it, being unemployed, has put a huge strain on any stability there was. the stress in our house has been overwhelming for a long, long time.

Meet other men?!! I wouldn't even know how to do that! I'll be 60 in the fall. Been with R for 34 years (32 married and 2 dating). Know any men who are interested in an older, very used model?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

*raises hand*:smthumbup:
I'm not trying to make a pass at you now. I'm 24 and I genuinely love older women milfs, cougars, jaguars. I love em!. You women don't play games and there's always something good to eat. It's like to catch a predator with the lemonade and cookies, without being handcuffed..... without consent.

I'm not advising you to sleep around or anything. I just think you might feel better about yourself if find someone of the opposite sex to drag you out of the house once a week for a cup of coffee and a bite to eat. Someone that you won't feel compelled to b!tch about your husband with so you can be happy for at least a few hours. That's why I say opposite sex and not a bunch of toxic friends that will say "I told you so". 

Dating isn't necessary by any means, and I understand if it's not your thing you can still enjoy your GNO. Getting out there and working to stay attractive for others is a great way to get you out of the house and away from a tray of brownies with a side of crushing loneliness.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> *raises hand*:smthumbup:
> I'm not trying to make a pass at you now. I'm 24 and I genuinely love older women milfs, cougars, jaguars. I love em!. You women don't play games and there's always something good to eat. It's like to catch a predator with the lemonade and cookies, without being handcuffed..... without consent.
> 
> I'm not advising you to sleep around or anything. I just think you might feel better about yourself if find someone of the opposite sex to drag you out of the house once a week for a cup of coffee and a bite to eat. Someone that you won't feel compelled to b!tch about your husband with so you can be happy for at least a few hours. That's why I say opposite sex and not a bunch of toxic friends that will say "I told you so".
> ...


Okay, Sonny, I'll go troll for someone of the opposite sex to drag me out of the house. 

Seriously, what I find difficult with my girlfriends is that they say things like "you're better off without him" and "you wouldn't take him back of course" and "you'll find someone better". I realize they are just trying to comfort me, but these words aren't helpful. 

I'm definitely not looking for a romantic relationship at this point. Its too soon. I haven't sorted out my feelings for R yet. It wouldn't be fair to me or the other person. But I definitely want someone in my life eventually, be it R or someone else. I am told I'm a nice person. I know I have a lot of love to give. And I want to share my life with someone. I want to love and to be loved. But now is not the right time.

However, it would be nice to have a man to meet for coffee or a walk and a chat. And I know I won't find this sitting around the house. But I honestly don't know how to go about meeting someone.

Oh, and I am working on my appearance, not because I want to become a cougar (really now, Nsweet!), but because I want to be the best I can be. 

My hairdresser decided I needed a new look to go with my 'new life' so she straightened my naturally curly hair. Now I look more like I did when R and I first met, back in the days before flat irons when I spent hours pulling my hair with a brush and frying it with a hairdryer. The flat iron makes it easy, but I now have a second degree burn on my hand where my daughter handed it to me, forgetting she had just used it. Let me tell, it ain't easy keeping up appearances!

I've also lost quite a bit of weight as I have been exercising to feel better and to ensure that I don't go into old age with a host of physical complaints I could have avoided.

Has R noticed the hair or the weight loss? Nope.

But I feel good, and that's what counts. 

I finally sent that email to him tonight and my stomach is in a knot wondering how he will take it.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I think it would be funny to see his expression when he sees you with a guy half your age. Even if it's a member of the church community or something. Cheaters can't stand it when their back up faithful spouse moves on. Even years after when they want to come back they flip the eff out when you've moved on. 

You're not doing the 180 for him, it's for you honey. Oh he notices! Married men learn to notice or else. He just won't give you the attention because that would be seen as chasing. The better you look and feel about yourself the more he'll fear you're going to leave his cheating ass in the dust, trade up, and be happy with out him.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

> fallout form your girlfriend’s (the minute you said that you weren’t responsible, I knew who was)


Back to the topic at hand, I don't know if you have sent this already, but I would suggest replacing the accusation of it being his girlfriend with "whoever" it was. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Ansley (Apr 5, 2010)

Frostflower said:


> Our family wasn't stable. Our son's drug problem, losing a job because of it, being unemployed, has put a huge strain on any stability there was. the stress in our house has been overwhelming for a long, long time.
> 
> Meet other men?!! I wouldn't even know how to do that! I'll be 60 in the fall. Been with R for 34 years (32 married and 2 dating). Know any men who are interested in an older, very used model?


OMG dont say that about yourself! You are a beautiful caring person. It comes through very clear in your posts. The girlfriend is a psycho and your husband should be furious that she deliberatley tried to come between him and his son. You are a good woman and great mom.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Going Mental said:


> Back to the topic at hand, I don't know if you have sent this already, but I would suggest replacing the accusation of it being his girlfriend with "whoever" it was.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.


Too late. I did send it. But now you have me thinking it might have been better. I just figured, enough of this, call it what it is and what I know it is.

Still haven't heard back and my stomach is still knotted.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Going Mental said:


> Back to the topic at hand, I don't know if you have sent this already, but I would suggest replacing the accusation of it being his girlfriend with "whoever" it was.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.


I am sitting here, my stomach is in a huge knot waiting for his response. I think you may be right, I should have kept it neutral. Damn! I sat on it for two days before sending it and I fear I may still have done the wrong thing.

He's had lots of time to respond. But nothing.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> I am sitting here, my stomach is in a huge knot waiting for his response. I think you may be right, I should have kept it neutral. Damn! I sat on it for two days before sending it and I fear I may still have done the wrong thing.
> 
> He's had lots of time to respond. But nothing.


The thing about sending emails, or long text messages is .. you will, no matter what you say, find something in it to make yourself doubt it after you hit send.

It's been done, the wheels in it are in motion. Nothing else you can do about it.

I too, sent an email, about 2 or so months ago.

The majority of it was a 'confession' of sorts, I didn't talk about any of the actual issues, just mine.

Never got a response from it.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> The thing about sending emails, or long text messages is .. you will, no matter what you say, find something in it to make yourself doubt it after you hit send.
> 
> It's been done, the wheels in it are in motion. Nothing else you can do about it.
> 
> ...


Email is a pretty detached way of communicating. You can't see facial expressions or hear tones. On the plus side, it gives time and space to think things out and to be composed when we respond.

I guess you're right, whatever I would have said, I would be re-thinking it, worrying it to death.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Its over 24 hours since I sent the email, and still no response. Guess he's not going to and I need to stop trying to guess what he is thinking.

I'm really missing him tonight. In a thread a few days ago, people were talking about how small things trigger the sadness. I took my Mum shopping yesterday. She is going in the hospital for a knee replacement and wanted to get a new nightgown to take. So I'm wandering around while she was trying things on looking at all the pretty lingerie and suddenly it hit me. I have no-one to but lingerie for. Ya, I know, I could get it for myself, but its not the same. No-one else would see it. I almost lost it right there in the store. Then this afternoon, I went grocery shopping and saw the corn cobs. They are always remind me of fall, even though its only July. It hit me that, soon enough it will be fall and I will have been without him for a whole summer. Teared up again.

Why did this have to happen to us? I just want my husband back.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

It happens to all of us betrayed spouses in the midst of an affair and divorce. Let him completely go for the time being and get yourself out of pain. Believe me he is the last person on earth you want to cry to at this time. It's all about having your spouse respect you and see you in a new light. 

Now blowing up at him just once does show him you're not going to let them use you BUT YOU ONLY GET ONE! After that you become the crazy b!tch he's glad to leave and make her look better, instead of the other way around. If you want him back you need to first get yourself out of pain and go dark, completely dark, stop all chasing. Then stop fighting with him over your marriage and show him you're fine with his decision and act "as if" you're happier without him. Finally just be friendly whenever he calls and keep up the act. 

Do this for long enough and he'll want to spend more time talking to you. Treat him kindly but platonically, resisting all hoovering attempts, and he'll start chasing you like he used to when you were dating. This will probably take a while since he needs to be with the OW without you in the way. Give the baby his bottle, and let him see she's no better than you were. Think you were bad? How about a woman that constantly accuses him of cheating and demands he keep treating her special like he did during the height of their affair...nag nag nag nag nag.

And that's the point where he'll wish he had you back and start treating you really nice. Because you're always calm and friendly and DON'T TRY TO GUILT TRIP HIM. Now the question is.... can you keep his up for a year or more without melting down... to him. He knows what he is doing is wrong and needs to deal with that feeling all on his own. If you're always there to give him grief, she'll be there to pick up the pieces and seem like little miss wonderful. 

Read: Bushido, The Spirit of Japan - It's on kindle and can be found any book store. Great book to teach you to make the right choices without a lot of psycho babble bs, and it's been used by everyone from military officer to the boy scouts, FDR, and JFK. That book will teach you what you need to know beyond the 180.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I am trying. Sometimes its so hard. A year?....oh, my gosh! Sometimes I'm not even sure I want him back. The thought of them having sex turns my stomach. Do I want his back after that? I just don't know. 

Then there are times like tonight when I want him so badly.

I'll look up that book.

Thanks.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Are you kidding? That's a year of freedom! And more importantly time to heal and stop chasing him completely. Cut your hair short, buy a dress you like, and workout like crazy. There's nothing written in stone that says you can't give him a call on his birthday, but he needs this time apart as much as you do.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I know you're right. In the past two days, I have bitten all my nails off and stopped exercising. And where is that getting me? Nowhere.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I have just received a reply from my husband. It simply says:

I wish you had discussed C's needs with me instead of going to the insurance people. Its too late to help with his issue, but if he needs help getting a job I can help out.

I replied something to the effect that as I believed the email saying he wouldn't help was from him, why would I discuss it with him? I thought I would have to help C myself, so I made the arrangements. What issue is it too late to help him with? If you want to help him move, we can discuss it. I can put any money I don't use back into the insurance policy.

His response just seems so cold. I guess in my heart I was hoping he would see the light and leave the OW. At least he could have been impressed with how I stepped up for my son. Instead it almost sounds like he thinks I'm stupid. I am devastated. i know its stupid, but I can't help crying. I wish he hadn't answered.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> The thing about sending emails, or long text messages is .. you will, no matter what you say, find something in it to make yourself doubt it after you hit send.
> 
> It's been done, the wheels in it are in motion. Nothing else you can do about it.
> 
> ...


i also sent emails & texts & never got responses & the ones she responded to were either hurtful or lies. it helped when i would write them on here instead, i could poor my guts out & it didn't go her


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Then I will write here what I feel like saying to him right now:

You stupid bastard. Your girlfriend created this particular situation. You couldn't even admit it was she who wrote the email and now you are finding fault with me because I acted as I saw fit to help our son. 

I handled the situation myself. I needed money. i got it. I was proud of myself for finding a solution. I wanted you to be proud of me. Fat chance that would ever happen.

Go to hell.

(Sorry everyone for swearing.)


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> His response just seems so cold. I guess in my heart I was hoping he would see the light and leave the OW. At least he could have been impressed with how I stepped up for my son. Instead it almost sounds like he thinks I'm stupid. I am devastated. I know its stupid, but I can't help crying. I wish he hadn't answered.


It's not that he think you're stupid, he's only focused on his own desires and doesn't want to face reality. Your husband is very defensive about his affair with the OW, and remains distant to protect himself from you or anyone else that may cause him to feel ashamed. 

Right now he doesn't respect you because he expects you to try to change his mind. Crying to him, arguing with him, writing heart felt letters, contacting him over anything besides important issues, these are all manipulative attempts to try to change his mind and that will only be met with resistance and downright bastardly actions.

Never underestimate the power of self preservation. I know of cheaters who cut ties with both families and moved to another state to be with each other away from the guilt trips. Though this plan tends to backfire when the OM/OW dumps their sorry ass and they come looking for comfort only to find their loved feel just as betrayed and angry as the betrayed spouse.

I will try to keep this very short so you can remember.

*#1 Agree with him no matter what he says.*
"You're right that was very selfish of me, and I should of asked you first." - Complete and utter bullsh!t but it's what he wants to hear and will get him to stop hurting you.

*#2 Acknowledge his feelings* 
"We have enough to deal with already without me stressing you out over C." - Connect with him on his level and recognize his feelings.

*#3 Tell him you're going to quit chasing*
"I can help C find a job, it's no problem" - Let him know in a kind way that you don't need him and won't pester him. 

*#4 Stop chasing him*
Completely stop contacting him PERIOD! Leave him the f*ck alone and go completely dark. He expects you to pester him and want him back. He does not respect you fro wanting him now. Never chase after anyone who doesn't want you back. 

*#5 Be consistent!*
If you promise to stop chasing and trying to change his mind, you better stop chasing and trying to change his mind. Every time you break that promise he will only lose more respect for you and justify his decision to leave.

You CANNOT fix your marriage or get him back so long as you are seen as a needy girl who puts him on a freakin pedestal. Stop chasing him and looking for reasons to want him back.... He broke the rules, he betrayed you, he DOES NOT deserve your loving affection now or in the future without busting his ass to win your approval. He wants to be with her, let him be with her and leave them alone. You and I both know how this affair is going to end.... if the OW was being a b!tch to you... guess what he's in for!:rofl:

And in case your wondering the statistics for their affair are a whopping 3 in 4100 that they're affair would survive long enough marry, and a 85% chance (10%+ under circumstances) the marriage won't last 3 years. Do you honestly thing a man capable of cheating who wouldn't go to MC would do anything to help their relationship? The answer is a big fat NO because their love is all about instant gratification and avoidance or responsibilities. Hey, they don't call it a wonder lust for nothing.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> It's not that he think you're stupid, he's only focused on his own desires and doesn't want to face reality. Your husband is very defensive about his affair with the OW, and remains distant to protect himself from you or anyone else that may cause him to feel ashamed.
> 
> Right now he doesn't respect you because he expects you to try to change his mind. Crying to him, arguing with him, writing heart felt letters, contacting him over anything besides important issues, these are all manipulative attempts to try to change his mind and that will only be met with resistance and downright bastardly actions.
> 
> ...


Oh Nsweet, I knew I could count on you. How did you get to be so wise?

I feel better in the morning light. You are right. He doesn't deserve my affection. You've said some things I hadn't thought of. He is defensive about the affair. His inability to look at me the last time he was here was likely an indication that he feels some shame. And you are SO right, the affair is about instant gratification and avoidance of responsibilities. He is free and clear of everything that I am left to deal with here. The only things he needs to concern himself with are financial and fixing up the house so it can be sold. The house stuff he is barely dealing with when it suits him. He has been good about money, but you've got me thinking that may be to appease his conscience.

I think my overreaction to his email was because I had foolishly been hoping that, seeing the results of OW's actions, he would get smart and dump her. But I should have remembered as someone told me, he's not thinking with his brain but with another part of his anatomy.

3 in 4100 huh? That's hopeful. If he later finds someone to be happy with, I think I'd be okay with that. I just don't want it to be her. She played a role in breaking up our marriage. He rejected me for her. My big hope is that it doesn't work between them.

I really hope she is a ***** and not some sweet thing who has made a mistake emailing me but is really a good person. Thinking of her as a ***** helps.

Thank you, Nsweet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Oh believe you me, not only will their affair not last but he will come back when you least want him. Your marriage represents familiar comfort and he KNOWS you are devoted to him and worship him. Otherwise why would you be so upset over his affair? 

Pfffft You really think they will get married? Not only have I read dozens of stories where the two distrust marriage and have issues in trust and honesty, but I've seen it in my own wife's affair. That son of a b!tch would mentioning marrying her and tell her how in love he was all the time... 

I asked my wife after divorce and she said she doesn't plan on it. Another one of his inglorious lies misrepresenting himself and another swing of pendulum blade that will inevitable sever their relationship. After all once either adulterer realizes they're with a cheater it kind of takes the romance out of the affair. (My wife left me for an immature emo wannabe rocker btw.)

You wanna see something magical? Have him change over night and start chasing you?.... Start dating. When you're no longer available he will try to secure you as his comfortable backup, but only until he feels he's secure you again. After you give in he will drop you like a ten ton weight and go back to her. The reason for which is because he know she is harder to please and could leave him if he doesn't give her everything she wants. 

BUT you can slowly win him over in the future, maybe after divorce, by following my advice and being friendly. The better you treat him the more he'll want to be around you. The more he wants to be around you the more he's not around her. The more he not around her the more she worries. The more she worries the more controlling she becomes. The more controlling she becomes the more he pulls away. The more he pulls away the more she chases. The more she chases the more he loses respect for her. The more he loses respect for her and when he respect you more he will favor you. Role reversed, check mate!


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I am trying to be friendly and not let on that I'm upset about their affair. Its definitely bite-my-tongue time.

The last few days, I've reverted to not exercising, overeating, biting my nails, and generally not taking care of myself. Guess it was the stress of waiting for his reply. This morning I woke up with a headache, read your words, and immediately went for a walk. I'm back! Thank you!!

An emo wannabe rocker? Really?!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I wouldn't even bother writing him back at all. Discuss it over the phone.

Sounds like his ex is jealous of you.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I wouldn't even bother writing him back at all. Discuss it over the phone.
> 
> Sounds like his ex is jealous of you.


She sure wants me out of the house. Part of her bogus email was that he wants the house on the market next March, or for me to buy him out then. He told me that's not true. I can stay as long as I want, until I'm comfortable with leaving. I wonder if she said that because it would get him further out of my life not owning a house together or are her eyes on the money?


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

Oh she certainly has designs on him....wants you out of the way. Take all the time YOU need. Sorry I don't know your back story regarding the house situation, but if he says take as long as you want, I'd suggest take advantage of that guilt for just a little longer so you can move on when YOU are ready, not the OW.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Definitely take advantage of the living situation, but don't play by his rules. Living there "until you feel comfortable" is playing right into his hand and giving him complete control. He's not the enemy right now, she is! Your stbxh is only sitting on the fence and letting her blow smoke up his ass until she can twist him tight enough around her finger to have him eliminate all competition. You want him to feel guilty and blame her for pushing you away right? Then you need to play into the fantasy and do as she wants. 


Trust me on this one, if you keep trying to push past his boundaries or kiss his ass hoping for kindness he's only going to get vicious and push you away treating you as poorly as possible. The only way you're going to win this one is if you do exactly as she wants and get your self out of the picture before they start blaming their problems on you. Stay there and fix up the house like she wants and leave before he has a chance to rope you into a serious fight where he can justify his affair further. 

"Stbx I've been thinking about it and she's right. I should get my own place as soon as possible so you two can spend more time together. I'll only stay here until the house is fixed and ready to be sold on the market."

There ya go, a great opportunity for a 180. Fixing up the house will give you something creative to do and keep you too tired to vent on him. AND don't forget. The happier you are the more he'll start beating himself up for this. You're not supposed to be happy when you're divorcing and it drives the WS crazy to lose control over you. I've seen this myself. Hell, you could even pop a bottle of wine and play passive-aggressive breakup and cheating songs, who cares you're having fun by yourself. Take a couple pics of you with paint on your face for FB and enjoy yourself. You and I both know their affair has about a snowballs chance in hell, especially if she's that controlling already, so relax and let the baby have his bottle and suckle all the instant gratification he can get.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I am definitely not going to rush into anything on anyone's account, his or hers. I am going to do what's right for me and my daughter. My oldest has offered to help me buy R out. he says it will be an investment for him to own part of the house and he would rent out his condo and move back home and go back to school full time. He means well, but this is not something I want. First of all, I don't want the house. Too big, too much work, too many headaches. Second, I don't think entering a large financial arrangement with your offspring is all that wise (what then happens when one of us wants out?). Third, living with my 24 year old son,much as I love him, is not something I want to do.

I will stay 'till its ready to sell.

I wonder how long it will be until she starts pressuring him to sell it. I'm sure it will happen. He has a lot of money tied up in the house and I'm sure she would like to establish them as a family in a new place. Also, as long as we own the house together, it ties him to me. Bet she's itching to cut that tie.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

LOL fix it up like you planned, but put a bunch of spy cams and microphones wired into it and sell it as an affair proof home. Ohh even better.... fix it up as beautiful as you can get it and then burn it down to the grown starting from a kitchen fire and letting all the paint fumes feed the flames. 

It's not a crime if you make it look like an accident, have an air tight alibi, and insurance doesn't catch you. LOL.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet, you are evil! 

The fire idea might be quite believable as I am notorious for burning food. I could probably get away with it! 'course it would be even better if R happened to be in the house at the time. I am no longer his insurance beneficiary, but the kids are. We could do all right!

Better stop talking like this in case the thread is monitored. It could come back to haunt me should the house ever burn down with him in it!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Or we could just phrase it like O.J. book and say "not that I would do it, but if I did here's how it would go down". And thank you! But I could get a lot more evil, I wasn't even trying.

What's that? How could a doctor possibly remove the wedding band from a patient and then accidentally lose it inside his chest cavity? And to top it off they gave him gender reassignment surgery? Wow! I'm just kidding.

You really should go with my previous advice and stay there fixing up the house whistling while you work. It's going to drive him nuts to see you so happy to get rid of him. When I did it and told my ex wife what a wonderful life she's going to live with a better man she broke down into tears and told me she had been eating rice for dinner and was too poor to enjoy her life..... Really!? The POS you left me for couldn't even bring you some Mcnuggets and cold fries? And here you had me thinking you would be traveling across the world on a teacher's salary supplemented with whatever an under the table frycook drug addict makes. 

^^^ You see by my example how much life sucks for them too. For you, of course there's going to be a own time and divorce is going to be harder. But with an affair, c'mon! For them it's like having Christmas, Spring break, Hawaiian vacation, and college admissions dreams smashed all at once when their fantasy doesn't work out. "Oh my God, this one nags even more than the last one!", LOL.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Or we could just phrase it like O.J. book and say "not that I would do it, but if I did here's how it would go down". And thank you! But I could get a lot more evil, I wasn't even trying.
> 
> What's that? How could a doctor possibly remove the wedding band from a patient and then accidentally lose it inside his chest cavity? And to top it off they gave him gender reassignment surgery? Wow! I'm just kidding.
> 
> ...



LOL! send me the name of that doctor!

I will definitely whistle while I work because my goal in life right now is to drive him nuts thinking about what he has lost. 

Hey, I don't nag. I merely tactfully and consistently point out how he should lead his life......as any good wife should do. (just kidding!!)


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Oh c'mon you ladies all nag and b!tch and whine and complain. And the ones who don't do use psychological torture and Jedi mind tricks to get their ways. 

It's just up to the man to do his part to keep it to a minimum and react without thinking when a situation arises. "Ok, the wife is due to have her period any day now. I better get home early so I can take the trash out, walk the dog, make dinner, and do the dishes. And still have time to listen to her complain about her day while keeping my problems to myself, because that's what men do. Better pick up some 5-Hour energy shots and chocolate."


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Oh c'mon you ladies all nag and b!tch and whine and complain. And the ones who don't do use psychological torture and Jedi mind tricks to get their ways.
> 
> It's just up to the man to do his part to keep it to a minimum and react without thinking when a situation arises. "Ok, the wife is due to have her period any day now. I better get home early so I can take the trash out, walk the dog, make dinner, and do the dishes. And still have time to listen to her complain about her day while keeping my problems to myself, because that's what men do. Better pick up some 5-Hour energy shots and chocolate."


If you men responded the first time, we wouldn't have to nag, *****, whine and complain. Psychological torture? Jedi mind tricks? I have no idea what you are talking about (picture me batting my eyelashes here). 

I hope you have never made the fatal error of asking a woman if it is her 'time of the month'. If you did, you deserved the results!

And yes, chocolate will be fine!


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

> Oh c'mon you ladies all nag and b!tch and whine and complain. And the ones who don't do use psychological torture and Jedi mind tricks to get their ways.


Frostflower, you beat me to it with your response. NSweet, seriously you still have some issues to sort out there in relation to the opposite sex


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Going Mental said:


> Frostflower, you beat me to it with your response. NSweet, seriously you still have some issues to sort out there in relation to the opposite sex


And he wonders why women aren't lined up at his door!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Issues? Honey, I was raised by women. There's not one manipulative scenario or mind game I haven't seen. And these were good little church women I'm talking about.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Issues? Honey, I was raised by women. There's not one manipulative scenario or mind game I haven't seen. And these were good little church women I'm talking about.


And look how well you turned out. We only do what we do for the good of our men.:angel3:


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Are you kidding? Without women to counterbalance the testosterone driven civilization the earth would just be a dried up husk from all the nuclear pissing contests. Then we really would be a spinning mud ball inhabited by psychotic apes!

Given the choice, I'd rather be nagged into wearing nicer clothes, striving for a better job, and holding my tongue than sit at home watching sports, drinking beer, and smelling all day.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Are you kidding? Without women to counterbalance the testosterone driven civilization the earth would just be a dried up husk from all the nuclear pissing contests. Then we really would be a spinning mud ball inhabited by psychotic apes!
> 
> Given the choice, I'd rather be nagged into wearing nicer clothes, striving for a better job, and holding my tongue than sit at home watching sports, drinking beer, and smelling all day.


It takes a real man to admit that, Nsweet. Those ladies did a fine job of raising you!

Psychotic apes......I think I married one of those.


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