# How to be assertive without trampling her feelings and needs



## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

My wife of 20+ years and I are working on our marriage and her lack of desire for sexual intimacy with me. One thing that has come up has been me being (for the lack of a better term) a wimp. I constantly say I'm sorry for everything and will avoid making a decision if it might cause a disagreement. Reading I've done has suggested that this is a turn off for women and my wife agreed that it is for her too. I have no idea how to be assertive and stand up for myself with out stepping on her feelings or putting her down. She is very hard headed and strong willed like me. I was never aware that I was being a wimp. I was simply trying to avoid arguments and keep her happy. 

Ladies I would appreciate your input most of all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> My wife of 20+ years and I are working on our marriage and her lack of desire for sexual intimacy with me. One thing that has come up has been me being (for the lack of a better term) a wimp. I constantly say I'm sorry for everything and will avoid making a decision if it might cause a disagreement. Reading I've done has suggested that this is a turn off for women and my wife agreed that it is for her too. I have no idea how to be assertive and stand up for myself with out stepping on her feelings or putting her down. She is very hard headed and strong willed like me. I was never aware that I was being a wimp. I was simply trying to avoid arguments and keep her happy.
> 
> Ladies I would appreciate your input most of all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The simple answer would be to stop trying to avoid argument simply to keep her happy. Obviously that's not working. You simply have to pick your battles. If there is something going on where you feel strongly, then stand up for your beliefs regardless of the outcome. Pick your battles.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Read the book -- No More Mr. Nice Guy. 

And I hear what SurvivorWife is saying but the problem with picking your battles is that it seems like you pick none. You cower down to your wife because she is the dominant personality. I'm sure you find it much easier to just apologize and move on because she is like a dog with a bone. You BOTH need to meet in the middle. You need to stand up for yourself and she needs to stop being so defensive and domineering. 

I used to be an "I'm Sorry" kind of person too. I was very co-dependent and part of that behavior meant that I was always trying to make others happy by giving them what they wanted. If they wanted an apology, even if I felt I wasn't wrong, they got it. Eventually I found ways to effectively communicate and stand my ground. It took a long time but I'm a much better person for it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"My wife of 20+ years and I are working on our marriage and her lack of desire for sexual intimacy with me. One thing that has come up has been me being (for the lack of a better term) a wimp. I constantly say I'm sorry for everything and will avoid making a decision if it might cause a disagreement."


Here are some thoughts, from a very strong woman.

When you want to avoid disagreements, it says you are afraid of her. Being afraid of her makes her feel you just aren't being mature. Why would a grown man be afraid of her? Why would he be afraid of confrontation or disagreements? To a strong woman this just seems baffling and irritating. She wants you to not fear conflict or confrontation, because these things are necessary in every marriage and they must be faced head on.

Of course, I don't mean to imply your wife is "right", I'm just trying to paint a picture of what it feels like to a strong woman when a man won't even face a disagreement and would rather hide from it. It just makes her angry and see you as fearful.

She may be really mean to you in disagreements and that might be why you avoid them. But again, your response to her being mean to you should be for you to demand she behave like an adult, get anger management, go to marriage counseling, or whatever. Not to hide from her.

I am not making assumptions, just presenting ideas. I don't have enough to go from in your one post, but I can write more if you give us more details.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> I have no idea how to be assertive and stand up for myself with out stepping on her feelings or putting her down.


You need to recognize that you are a wimp. As a wimp, it will be almost impossible for you to put your wife down and hurt her feelings. You have conditioned yourself to be too accommodating.

I can tell you that, when you feel like you're being a complete jerk, you will most likely be behaving like a reasonable, assertive man. Embrace that.

Also, don't be afraid to make mistakes. You're basically in as bad a place as you can be. Your wife has to drink herself into a stupor to have sex with you. Why are you so anxious to preserve that? What if you change and she doesn't like it? Will she refuse to have sex with you? She's already doing that.

Just mix it up. Start small. Choose the restaurant you eat at this weekend. If you're like the classic wimps, you and your wife choosing a restaurant probably goes something like this:
You: Where do you want to eat?
Her: I don't care. Where do you want to go?
You: Anywhere is fine with me.
Her: Me too.
You: So, just pick.
Her: I can't decide. What do you want?
You: It doesn't matter.

And on and on and on. Twenty minutes later, your wife has chosen a restaurant and she's seething because you can't even make a simple, inconsequential decision. What a wimp.

A much better conversation would go something like this.
You: Let's go eat. (grab keys)
Her: Fine. Where are we going?
You: You'll see.

And you're off. That takes 10 seconds. You can either go to a new place, or to a place she likes. And even if she doesn't like it, what's the harm? Any reasonable person can find something to eat on an average menu.

Little interactions like that will build your confidence up enough to start having arguments with her. You could be behaving like an honest to goodness adult in no time flat.

Good luck.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks. I will look into that book for sure. 

I am a semi dominant personality with most people other than my wife. And if I believe in something enough, I will stand up for myself and fight her to the bloody end. This however does not happen much. Being pretty laid back I just choose not to take a side on most things if it does not matter a great deal to me. I also do this because my wife can easily take a difference of opinion as a personal attack on her. 

Today I have been listening to myself and trying to be aware of my body language. Bottom line. I really need to work on this. I don't think I can go a few minutes without apologizing for something. Most of it was probably not necessary, it's just what I say when things go amiss. I am changing this now. Also trying to carry myself better as I noticed I act like a scared
dog. Also working on that. I am hoping for positive results, but this will be hard. These are things I've done for many years. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> My wife of 20+ years and I are working on our marriage and her lack of desire for sexual intimacy with me. One thing that has come up has been me being (for the lack of a better term) a wimp. I constantly say I'm sorry for everything and will avoid making a decision if it might cause a disagreement. Reading I've done has suggested that this is a turn off for women and my wife agreed that it is for her too. I have no idea how to be assertive and stand up for myself with out stepping on her feelings or putting her down. She is very hard headed and strong willed like me. I was never aware that I was being a wimp. I was simply trying to avoid arguments and keep her happy.
> 
> Ladies I would appreciate your input most of all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Baby steps

Instead of saying "sorry" and accepting blame for everything, simply say "that's unfortunate" and move on.


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## Syco (Sep 25, 2013)

Advice from Trey Parker & Matt Stone:

orgazmo - now you are a man - YouTube


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

41362 said:


> Baby steps
> 
> Instead of saying "sorry" and accepting blame for everything, simply say "that's unfortunate" and move on.


Thanks. I'm currently looking for new words to use in place of an apology.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Update: I have been trying hard to change. Learning to be asertive is easier than not apologizing for everything. This will be a battle to me. I also have been showing my wife a lot more love and attention. It is amazing to me how quickly it is becoming second nature. My wife and would go days with out kissing or saying I love You. Now I can't go a few hours. I am at a whole new level of happy and I love it. But I did not know for sure how my wife felt or if she had noticed a difference. Until last night that is. We went to my parents beach condo this weekend to visit them and while we were out walking she told me she had noticed the changes I had made and that she like it. I was on cloud nine and feeling great. It only got better when I got to make love to her like we hasn't done in a long time. Hope this is a sign of things to come. 

I love my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

You need to find yourself... Your own thoughts, feelings, wants and desires and make them a priority as well. I understand you want to make her happy but it can't be all about her. She doesn't want that and neither should you. If you feel you are pleasing her by giving in and giving up what's important to you it may make you happy momentarily but in the long run you will become resentful and unhappy and a shell of a person. If you want her respect you need to start respecting yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Good to hear. I am the dominant personality in my house, though I wouldn't say my husbands a wimp. He does, however, avoid conflict like the plague, which really pisses me off because one: it means he rugsweeps things that should be dealt with in order to avoid a fight, and two: it always falls to me to try to settle things while he buries his head in the sand. There are many things about him I love and respect but this trait I do not respect. I don't see why you would have to hurt your wife's feelings in order to make your opinion known, you're not going to name call or put her opinion down right? Make your opinion known as an equal and make your case, while addressing her opinion as an equally valid one. What you don't do is inform your wife that as the man you lead this household, like some on this site might try to tell you.
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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Find a partner who is less dominant and argumentative than you.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here you go.
No More Mr Nice Guy

Good luck


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Good to hear. I am the dominant personality in my house, though I wouldn't say my husbands a wimp. He does, however, avoid conflict like the plague, which really pisses me off because one: it means he rugsweeps things that should be dealt with in order to avoid a fight, and two: it always falls to me to try to settle things while he buries his head in the sand. There are many things about him I love and respect but this trait I do not respect. I don't see why you would have to hurt your wife's feelings in order to make your opinion known, you're not going to name call or put her opinion down right? Make your opinion known as an equal and make your case, while addressing her opinion as an equally valid one. What you don't do is inform your wife that as the man you lead this household, like some on this site might try to tell you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are much like my wife. But she often gets offended when we have a difference of opinion. I am finding new ways to let her know that I do not agree with her without putting her down. She knows what I am trying to accomplish and I believe she is cutting me some slack. She is also giving me some feedback on how she feels. Contrary to some posts. I am not loosing some of myself, but rather gaining more of my wife in my life. I am not letting her walk over me. If something bothers me I will speak my mind. But on many subjects I know my wife feels strongly about, in these cases I know a fight can start easily. These are the issues I just chose to avoid. But like me, your husband might not know the image he is portraying. For your husband to change he will have to realize how he is comming a cross and want to change it with every bone in his body. This is not easy for me by any stretch of the imagination. I believe it will be worth it in the end. Also, if your husband was to try to change, be would need your help. When your husband that never has an opinion about anything stands his ground on something, you cannot beat him down. I can assure you it will be work for both of you. My wife has been great through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Differences of opinion can and should be expressed without putting each other down. When you avoid an issue you know will cause conflict you are stuffing yourself down and losing yourself and your partner. No good will ever come of it. I agree now that you are willing to confront these issues you are gaining more of yourself .. And your wife!


You cant rely on your wife or anyone else to help to you in standing up for yourself. Most patterns are ingrained. When you really push her buttons she will attempt to beat you down and you need to be able to stand up to it... All alone with nobody's help. Here is where assertiveness comes in. Respectfully standing for what you believe without name calling or any of the other nastiness that comes with conflict.

Major conflicts occur when it is something important to each of you. Both parties need to be heard and considered respectfully so that you can meet somewhere in the middle where you each give and take a little and decide on something you are both ok with .
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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> You are much like my wife. But she often gets offended when we have a difference of opinion. I am finding new ways to let her know that I do not agree with her without putting her down. She knows what I am trying to accomplish and I believe she is cutting me some slack. She is also giving me some feedback on how she feels. Contrary to some posts. I am not loosing some of myself, but rather gaining more of my wife in my life. I am not letting her walk over me. If something bothers me I will speak my mind. But on many subjects I know my wife feels strongly about, in these cases I know a fight can start easily. These are the issues I just chose to avoid. But like me, your husband might not know the image he is portraying. For your husband to change he will have to realize how he is comming a cross and want to change it with every bone in his body. This is not easy for me by any stretch of the imagination. I believe it will be worth it in the end. Also, if your husband was to try to change, be would need your help. When your husband that never has an opinion about anything stands his ground on something, you cannot beat him down. I can assure you it will be work for both of you. My wife has been great through this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Interesting thoughts.....I would say that I never put my husband's opinions down, and he will typically give them to me even if we don't agree. I don't get the least bit offended by another opinion, esp if he can explain why he feels that way. Our issues come up more when he does something to upset me, he will just bury his head and pretend like he has no idea what's going on. We've had discussions when I finally blow up where he admits he knew what was wrong and was hoping it would just go away. He knows how it comes across, it just seems like each time he once again hopes it will go away. Maybe it's just something where I need to stop letting it bother me. Glad things are improving for you and your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

My wife is one that would rather ignore problems until they go away or you forget about them and I am a fixer, always wanting to sit down and talk it out. I can tell you that people on both side of that issue we mad at the other person. He is upset because you insist on trying to fix everything and you are upset because ignoring problems only makes them bigger next time.
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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> My wife is one that would rather ignore problems until they go away or you forget about them and I am a fixer, always wanting to sit down and talk it out. I can tell you that people on both side of that issue we mad at the other person. He is upset because you insist on trying to fix everything and you are upset because ignoring problems only makes them bigger next time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



But how can burying your head in the sand possibly be healthy? The way I see it all it does is build resentments and allow misunderstandings to occur. My hb would rather avoid the issue and have a tension filled house for a week than have a 10 minute discussion and settle everything. I just don't see how that's the better option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> But how can burying your head in the sand possibly be healthy? The way I see it all it does is build resentments and allow misunderstandings to occur. My hb would rather avoid the issue and have a tension filled house for a week than have a 10 minute discussion and settle everything. I just don't see how that's the better option.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 IMHO it is not a better option. With my wife I have at time taken her for drives and cornered her into a discussion on issues that I though could not go unresolved. At times it upset her but these discussion usually greatly contributed to fixing problems while causing very few (your results may vary of course). 

As for me. I made some good choices over the weekend that put my wife and I in a good place. I hope to continue these good choices and being an assertive leader she desires. This change in me has also done wonders for our sex life. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

anchorwatch said:


> Here you go.
> No More Mr Nice Guy
> 
> Good luck


I join this thread late to thank you profusely for this read. It is simply the most accurate picture of exactly what happened to my exH. In massive detail.

I was stunned and stayed up all night tlil I read the whole book.

I am sharing it with our daughters (high school and college age). At one time I was going to try to write "what went wrong with your Dad" but it is all here. 

He was and is completely unfixable according to the decades of therapists he worked with. I feel that the story at last can come to a logical conclusion now with this understanding. It is very sad. As a Nice Guy he was such a sweetheart at first.... And then with the first pregnancy came his rage and the name-calling, and later the hidden drug abuse and the total drop-off of libido, while accusing me of being a ****. I am curious if there was porno there too.

But why bother, he's textbook, it's all here in this incredible book. I just wish I had known how better to help him move past it. He is now inflicting the Nice Guy habits on our daughters and they are understandably conflicted about all the random "favors" he does, giving them weird things they don't need or want--while refusing to pay their medical bills as required by our parenting agreement. (And who wants to go back to court?)

My current H borders on some of this mother-worship stuff and I am on guard now to monitor his tendency to fall into "You are my whole life and I live only for you" stuff, and instead let him follow his newfound passions of going to local college football games and even fishing. (So manly!!) All since our marriage. How many women are relieved to become football widows? or fishing widows?  

An additional plus is that he was still being Mr Nice Guy to all his exGF's and has now stopped doing that too. 

This book explains how all these things are related.

I would like to know more about what we wives and GF's could do to alter this pathology and have healthier marriages. 

Thanks again for sharing this!


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Last Long Lifelong said:


> Get your hands on a copy of David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man". And start reading it. Now.
> 
> After that, move on to "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover" by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette.


This is incredible stuff. Thank you.

I am noticing that I, like many women in the latter half of the 20th century, got pretty mixed messages about male and female roles and definitely bought into the "we're all the same" philosophy. Add to that the fact that I was raised in a family with multigenerational antipathy toward women and anything female, and here I am, with deepseated, formerly rather hidden, female characteristics and a wall of shame on top. It was made clear to me, growing up, that I was simply a failed boy. A burden I could never overcome, of course, because the more I tried to act like my brothers the more obvious it was that I would always fail at being the golden ideal: A man.

My current H is awkwardly polarized toward femaleness due to the same 20th century pressures to accommodate women's needs for equality, respect, and legal remedy. I appreciate his remarkable sympathies toward women. He's incredibly kind and caring. But there are times when he clearly wants to take a comfy back seat to my early masculine training and put me out in front to take the heat while he says things like "You're better at that." No, I'm not. I hate it. I feel like cannon fodder.

It is no wonder that after some of our episodes in which this occurred I lost my interest in him sexually. 

Dancing between the polarities is the spice of life. 

I see though that it's perfectly okay to take on both masculine and feminine roles variably according to our desires and the occasion. But I just don't want to keep getting pushed into always having to be a failed guy. I'm much better at being a woman. But I'm glad I can find a useful middle ground, too. I'm wicked with power tools.


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