# a little concerned (wife and sex toys)



## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Dear All…

Well, I too am having an issue (sex related) that I need some advice on. I’m going to try and keep this as clear/straightforward as possible. I’ll list my questions/concerns below.

*Historical Background:*
-Wife(47) and I (47) have been married for ~24 years (were together ~5 years prior to that)
-We have 2 children (son 14, daughter 19)
-As far as I can recall, sex has normally been at “my beckoning” (rarely would she initiate)
- Occasionally (very rarely) would she initiate (like rubbing my leg while I’m driving)
-We’d have sex on ave once every 1.5 weeks (yes, obviously LESS than I would want!); I’d PUSH for once per week, but because of this or that… things would not work out
- I’d get the “not tonight… I’m too tired…”
- I’d always been the one to try and mix it up (added k-j at one point, message oil, different positions, locations in house, etc…)

*Recent History:*
-We hit a VERY BAD PATCH over the past couple of years
- So much so that she was out of the house (with me and kids at home) for ~5 months last year
- It involved her having made some REALLY BAD decisions regarding our household finances
- We almost did not come back from it!; we’ve been in therapy for a while now (joint, me solo and she has been to solo, I just do not know if she still is doing that)
- She moved back in ~1 year ago; sex was slow to return (it took about ~3 months or so)
- The sex that returned was “same old/same old” (i.e., I’d want once per week, we’d ave 1.5 weeks or longer)
- I’d get the “not tonight… I’m too tired… don’t give me that look… you have to understand I’m tired…”
- [note: she used to only work part-time, but now works full time as well as a part-time job; the part-time job is NOT NEEDED from a $ perspective… she simply just “wants to” for social reasons… that’s a bigger story – no time here, but that extra $ is not yet part of the ‘household’ budget – i.e., it does not go towards paying any bills; i.e., the extra time working part-time job, IMO, promotes a situation where she is even MORE tired -- see above – and leaves that much less time for “us”]
- SIDE NOTE: having your sexual advances repeatedly denied is, well, it makes you angry, resentful, and depressed

*My “discovery”:*
- We had our anniversary late July and we were headed away for the weekend
- In advance of that I wanted to buy her some new lingerie (panties, bra, nighty)
- I did not know her bra size, so decided to look in her bra drawer
*[YES… you ALL know where this is headed now!]*
- I found a small battery pack and was like… HUH?? Then thought “oh… I know what this might be…”
- Yes, it was not my shining moment, but I could not restrain myself from looking for the other part!
- It only took the opening of one more drawer to find it
- A life sized vibrating, rotating, etc. dildo (the jack rabbit kind with clit stim part)
- My assumption is that it was a recent purchase (box was empty, with dildo next to it – I assume she would have tossed the box first chance she would get, but perhaps was interrupted since daughter was still home); I was away the previous week with son on a boy scout trip – I assume it arrived while we were gone

*My reaction:*
- I had (and still have) so many mixed emotions about this; OH she’s too tired to have sex with me but you will have sex with this? A REPLACEMENT!! I’m not good enough as MY MEMBER does not ROTATE LIKE THAT… etc… etc…
- I’ve never felt inadequate in the bedroom prior to this and had always done my best to “please her” (have always tried my best at C-stim, but, never really knew the best way to do it – and she would give me very little direction)
- I was also, of course, mad at myself for looking, but it started out honorable enough – buying her stuff for anniversary
- After being sad/depressed/angry, etc.., I decided to turn it to a “positive”
- I bought a few toys (vibrating rings, small finger vibrators) and put a “plan” in place
- I sat her down and had along chat (not letting on that I knew of IT in her drawer); explained how we are both getting older, that I feel badly that it often takes some “investment” on her part to get me to a point of climaxing (I need a goodly amount of foreplay to really enjoy intercourse) and told her
that I was planning on introducing some ideas to our sex life that might spice things up a bit for both of us and I planned on doing that while we were away for our anniversary weekend
- During our conversation I broached the idea if I had ever “let her longing for more” (i.e., if she did not climax with me) and that I assumed she would “resolve it privately” (I added that I was certain she would know that, had rolls be reversed, that I, myself, would do that – she said “maybe” – not the answer I was hoping for from a spouse who is “opened but at least it was not a “no”)…
- Anyway, she seemed open minded to trying whatever I brought along “within reason” (though I did not tell her what I was bringing – I just said “one level above lube”; it was a good conversation… quite productive from my perspective

*Her response:*
- We had a very nice weekend, I introduced (slowly) these things over the course of a very romantic evening (I brought wine, had ipod play lists going, gave her the lingerie, etc… I was gentle and caring); I really went ALL OUT to be romatic!
- Obviously, she REALLY enjoyed the toys (all vibrating)
- That was that… and I have introduced a few more things in the past ~2 months
- Sex life has been “good-ish” since this (but still ~1.5 weeks)

*Side notes:*
- I’ve chatted about all of this with my therapist and he thinks I should let her know about my discovery
- As I’m curious as to why she decided to buy the dildo at this moment (I’m 99% sure that the purchase happened when I suspect – when I was away)
- As I’m curious about the motive
- As I’m curious as to why “this type” (i.e., DILDO! Opposed to something less phallic); I’m a little uncomfortable with her having purchased a life sized “replacement” of me (but I KNOW I should not feel that way)
- As I’m concerned about the being “taken out of the loop”
- But, am hopeful that perhaps its just a way to “explore” herself (so things can be better for both of us)
- Also, and MOST IMPORTANTLY… I had considered adding something like this for a long while, but never thought she would be opened to it (I had previously thought she was, well, a tad “closed” re sex/exploration)
- I only did it now (because of my discovery!) and, well, I feel as though our relationship (for the most part – pending the issue I’m talking about here) has taken on a “new level” (and it is owed, in part, to her having made the BOLD MOVE to buy something… and me, well, being honorable (at first) and finding it – and turning it to our advantage). I think she should know this… that it was NOT ME… that it really was HER that spurred on this new “level of intimacy” (as we are both enjoying the toys that I have bought with each other)… I also think that the “openness” we are sharing re: needs/desires in bed room is spreading to other aspects of our relationship

*My suggestion to her:*
- I really do not like always having to be the one to spice things up, so after I KNEW she was enjoying/comfortable with the items that I added to our repertoire I asked her to look for some things to add as well (she said she would)
- A few weeks passed and nothing yet
- I approached her and she said that she looked but we pretty much already had the things she saw
- Fair enough… so I suggested that I give her a shopping list of things that “I might like, we might like, she might like” – like a Christmas list; I also sent her paypal $ to buy the stuff (since her budget is a little tight)
- She said that this was an ok idea
- Two weeks have passed now and she has not yet produced anything (and I have not asked); yes, 2 weeks might not yet be enough time, but she has historically procrastinated with pretty much everything
- I want to be patient (not to “ruin it” by seeming to “nag”), but, I’m not sure at what point I should stop waiting and remind her/ask about it…


*Side notes:*
- over the past 2 months since I added the “toys” sex has been good
- I still (sometimes) get the “I’m tired”
- a couple weeks back we did not have sex for 2 weeks (she claimed period was “weird”); tough to know for sure as I was not seeing pads/wrappers end up in garbage can like I normally would – but who knows


*My new “discovery”:*
- The other day I needed some nail polish for something I was working on in the garage
- I went into the bathroom and looked in a few of the cabinet drawers (innocently) where these had been historically kept
* [YES… you ALL know where this is headed now!]*
- In one of the drawers were 2 vibrators (a small one @ ~2 inches long and a larger one @ ~4 inches long)
- These are “new additions” to that drawer as I was in it a couple weeks back looking for some headache med)
- Here is another moment I’m not proud of, but, based on my “assessment” of these items, she is pretty much using them daily in the shower!
- To make matters worse, at least from my perspective, I’m still “occasionally” getting the “I’m too tired”
- and I fear that the 2 weeks of NO SEX was due to her using these!


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*Now that you have the background….*

- I’m sad… I’m depressed… I just do not know how to handle this situation
- I know I need to have a conversation with her, but I just do not know what to say
- She obviously is not averse to buying things like this, but, based on her behavior, she does not seem to want buy any to “share” with me (this makes me SO SAD since I really went out on a limb to introduce these items into our “shared” sex life); I want/need to feel as though she is a PARTNER in this with me…

- obviously, if she needs these things to enjoy sex (note: we have had a few conversations as of late re: how they make her feel… how things have been in the past… had she ever climaxed with me before, etc…) I KNOW I need to be supportive/understanding
- but, I’m starting to feel as though, well, when we should be WORKING HARD on our relationship, the purchase of the “secret items” is, IMO, undermining that as it (from my perspective) maybe removing the need/desire to be intimate with me, which has ALWAYS been an issue in our relationship
- Without giving details, I really had to “absorb” a lot (in terms of what she had done which prompt the need for her to be out of the house)
- I have forgiven her (we are still working on those aspects of the relationship), but I feel (in some respects) that she is betraying me again by “excluding me” from her sex life…

Now… I will add the following “stepping back” comment (as I KNOW there could me MANY aspects of what is going on here)…

- She could have purchased these items now to “explore” her own sexuality with the aim to enhance things for the both of us
- She could have purchased these items now simply to “augment” normal intimacy as a way to have private “release” (though, again, the purchase of the life-sized dildo does make me feel uncomfortable – what would she think if I had purchased a “flesh light”? – for those who do not know what that is, it’s a “replica” of female anatomy); Indeed I regularly do “solo” myself, but have never pursued anything other then lube – sure I’d thought about other things, but always thought a little “dirty” – like I would be betraying her – had I gone down that path; and yes, I do look at porn on an occasion.

And the most “negative” idea…
- She could have purchased it (the dildo) now simply to “remove me from the loop” (though I know this is a negative-resentful type of feeling)

- I know I need to give it time… since the bathroom vibrators are “new” to see if there is a substantial change (decrease – I fear!; INCREASE – I should be so lucky) in our level/frequency of intimacy…

I’m trying SO HARD to rebuild our relationship and, well, the “negative” side of me keeps rearing its ugly head and turning this all “bad” – while the hopeful (optimist side) keeps trying to say… give it time… maybe her exploring her sexuality is a GOOD THING and, in the end, YOU (and she – BOTH OF YOU) will benefit…

any thoughts/advice would be appreciated...




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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

The toys are getting more play than you are? That's definitely excluding you and very unfair, especially since you seem willing to use them during your "couple time." 

Can she orgasm without them? I'd worry about being too dependent on the vibrations, rotations and flashing lights of her toys. They could desensitize her to manual stimulation and make an orgasm without them impossible. 

On top of that, you are not fulfilled or satisfied by your frequency. What's stopping you from gently broaching the subject? It doesn't have to turn into a fight if you remain calm and end the conversation if she gets heated or defensive.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

For me, masturbation is not part of or reflective of my sex life with my husband. When I want to masturbate, I want to masturbate. When I want sex with my husband, I want sex with my husband. 

Sometimes, if I want sex with my husband and can't get it, I will masturbate. If I want to masturbate, I rarely (maybe never) seek out my husband first. 

They just are totally different for me, driven by different urges. One involves connection with another human, the other just scratching an itch. One requires emotional and psychological energy and presence, the other does not. They are satisfying in different ways. 

Now, having said that, I can see where you are hurt and confused by the knowledge that your wife is (purportedly) masturbating a lot while your sex life languishes. I would strongly suggest NOT making her masturbatory habits a fractious issue, however. The REAL issue here is that you are feeling a lack of intimacy, that you desire more, that you feel you are working on it hard, and that she is not. 

The reason I suggest that you not turn accusatory towards how she pleasures herself is that it smacks of an attempt to control her behavior. Please don't misunderstand me--you have a right to feel rejected when you suspect that she frequently seeking out pleasure on her own. However, pointing to that as the issue misses the mark--which is "Why isn't she desiring sexual pleasure from her husband more frequently?"

Have you asked her what makes her feel sexual TOWARDS YOU? Have you had the discussion about what she might be able to do to increase her feelings of desire FOR YOU? It sounds like you have had plenty of relationship issues in the past, and I'm sure this affects her attraction to you. Ask her to work on those issues--in therapy, on her own, with you--and avoid asking her to change her private masturbation habits. 

Certainly you can discuss it with her--really, it's a positive thing that she has the desire to feel sexual pleasure. However, redirecting that desire to you is more complicated than her just coming to you when she feels the urge to masturbate.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well it's clear that your wife isn't comfortable with you sexually, but she does have a sex drive so that's good. I'm not clear on whether she enjoys the sex you do have so can you confirm? Maybe it's time for professional help to find out what her issue with you is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow! Made it through and pretty sure I have an idea or two that may help.

But first I must say this. Do NOT take the purchase of a vibrating, clit stimulating dildo as a replacement for you! I love those things too but they simply do NOT compare to the real thing! It's like using a ruler to scratch your back or getting your lover to scratch your back for you... A ruler hits the itch but your lover is SOOOO much better!

I suspect your wife is experiencing an upsurge in her sex drive that many women experience prior to perimenopause. I suspect she doesn't bring this to you for several reasons number 1 being that she doesn't and hasn't ever seen herself as such a sexually driven person before and she is trying to come to terms with it on her own.

Another reason would be that she simply doesn't know how to approach you for sex. I know to men this must be the most absurd thing possible but women take sexual rejection as a personal insult to end all personal insults. There simply is nothing more humiliating or devastating than when your own husband doesn't want you, or when your own husband is shocked by your desire. It takes a huge amount of trust for a woman to bring her sex drive to her husband when historically all she had to do was willingly respond to yours.

I think there are still resentments and trust issues on her part. If she is experiencing a surge in drive, then one would assume she would at least be willing when you approach her...right? So there is clearly something going on that she is trying to work out on her own but doesn't seem to be very successful.

If you could arrange another weekend away, you bring every sex toy in the house with you, use them all on her. Then cuddle together and ask for honesty as she confides in you why she doesn't bring her sexual urges to you, why she doesn't trust your love enough for you to take her desire and make it a wonderful experience for you both. I think you should be free to express your hurt that she hid these things and her desire from you.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> The toys are getting more play than you are? That's definitely excluding you and very unfair, especially since you seem willing to use them during your "couple time."
> 
> Can she orgasm without them? I'd worry about being too dependent on the vibrations, rotations and flashing lights of her toys. They could desensitize her to manual stimulation and make an orgasm without them impossible.
> 
> On top of that, you are not fulfilled or satisfied by your frequency. What's stopping you from gently broaching the subject? It doesn't have to turn into a fight if you remain calm and end the conversation if she gets heated or defensive.



my plan/vision (though perhaps ill conceived) about how to approach this was to wait until after she "signs on" to the idea of sharing this stuff with me (i.e., buying some things herself) and waiting a couple weeks, then saying "...i'd like to chat with you about something..."

--------
i'm NOT yet at the "she's not being fair" mindset... it could be a product of this all being new to her (her own purchase and then my additions)...

time will tell in terms of the impact on our intimacy... i'm just starting to get a tad concerned...

thanks...


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

There are several reasons she would be doing this.

1. She isn't telling you about the toys because she doesn't feel you are safe, emotionally. Maybe it was the way the financial thing was dealt with, maybe she thinks you are critical of her, you have to decide.
2. She is just discovering her sexuality, yes a little late, and is exploring this on her own, at first.
3. She views sex as sex and doesn't make the connection to the emotional side. Many woman see sex this way and they have to be educated on the emotional needs of a man when it comes to sex.
4. Using the toys is easier and takes less energy than having sex with you.
5. She is not emotionally connected with you.
6. She does not feel physically attracted to you.

It could be one or more of these reasons. You need to find out but if you come at her she will close up. Somehow you need to talk to her, kindly and nonjudgmentally.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

hopeful2112 said:


> my plan/vision (though perhaps ill conceived) about how to approach this was to wait until after she "signs on" to the idea of sharing this stuff with me (i.e., buying some things herself) and waiting a couple weeks, then saying "...i'd like to chat with you about something..."
> 
> --------
> i'm NOT yet at the "she's not being fair" mindset... it could be a product of this all being new to her (her own purchase and then my additions)...
> ...


You could wait a few more weeks to see if she brings it up. But didn't you bring up the first toy? She didn't volunteer it. So...tiptoeing around it might just result in you waiting around forever. 

You're obviously open about it and you don't fly off the handle. Let her know you are down for any kind of fun. If she feels embarrassed, maybe she needs reassurance that you won't judge her, though you definitely don't seem like you do.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> For me, masturbation is not part of or reflective of my sex life with my husband. When I want to masturbate, I want to masturbate. When I want sex with my husband, I want sex with my husband.
> 
> Sometimes, if I want sex with my husband and can't get it, I will masturbate. If I want to masturbate, I rarely (maybe never) seek out my husband first.
> 
> ...


thanks... indeed we have lots of issues here... (and hopefully in time they will work out)... its just that she has always been distant sexually... and, well, it wears on you (as a guy) to always have to ask or initiate or decide "is tonight a good not to try" "is she in a good enough mood" (etc... etc...)

it is exhausting! and to know that she is now (and perhaps for quite sometime) going solo (even on mornings where she turns me down the night before or later that eve...)... well, it takes a strong person NOT to just EXPLODE!




I do not plan to make it about "her habits" but rather:
- wondering why did she buy IT now... is it helping with her interest in being with me?

as for the small ones, I plan to just say "...stumbled upon them... might want to hide them better... feel free to bring them to bed with us..." (or something similar)

she has typically been a very defensive person, so I need to be very cautious (and loving) about how I do this...

thanks


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Well it's clear that your wife isn't comfortable with you sexually, but she does have a sex drive so that's good. I'm not clear on whether she enjoys the sex you do have so can you confirm? Maybe it's time for professional help to find out what her issue with you is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


re: enjoying sex with me... I believe she does... but how can I guy really tell?! 

When asked recently she said that she does and can enjoy sex with me...

The other day I did ask her about something I've noticed. she is REALLY into it when we use vibrators.... WAY beyond anything that I recall with just me (yeah, makes a guy feel inadequate!)... I even asked her (based on my readings) that some women never have climaxed prior to using vibrators... and was that the case with her (since I get an overwhelming sense that she is ENJOYING these things MORE than she has ever enjoyed me!)...

and she said no... that she has climaxed with me... it is just that the vibrators are "different"


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Wow! Made it through and pretty sure I have an idea or two that may help.
> 
> But first I must say this. Do NOT take the purchase of a vibrating, clit stimulating dildo as a replacement for you! I love those things too but they simply do NOT compare to the real thing! It's like using a ruler to scratch your back or getting your lover to scratch your back for you... A ruler hits the itch but your lover is SOOOO much better!
> 
> ...



my therapist suggested the same thing re: exploring her own sexuality... up surge in interest (premenopausal)...

re: does not know how to approach me? all she has to do is respond when I initiate (and not say "too tired") -- that alone would be a step in the right direction...

with work schedules and kids obligations getting away again (soon) will be tough... but, that is a good idea... thanks


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

JustHer said:


> There are several reasons she would be doing this.
> 
> 1. She isn't telling you about the toys because she doesn't feel you are safe, emotionally. Maybe it was the way the financial thing was dealt with, maybe she thinks you are critical of her, you have to decide.
> 2. She is just discovering her sexuality, yes a little late, and is exploring this on her own, at first.
> ...


you have probably hit a few of the reasons:

- the $ thing is probably SPOT ON! and I have covered this (she does not feel "safe" in confiding in me) in solo and joint therapy
- re: discovering... that is why I SO MUCH want to be patient/understanding...
- yes, toys "easier" then having to invest time in pleasing me, but... well, that is one of the "obligations" of married life... I know that sounds kind'a strong, but... well, there is an expectation that a wife will want to please her husband (sexually) and husband -> wife... I've been "showing up" to meet my side... just not sensing an overwhelming commitment from her side... but, again, I want to be hopeful and patient
- re: emotionally connected to me. yes, this is an ongoing issue for us... and, well, there is little more that I can to do help her feel safe and that I love her, care for her... etc...
- re: physically attracted... I guess i'll just have to ask her that... i'm kind'a "fit" - not a "bad looking" man (when things were really bad a close friend, female, was like... you know... you'd be a real catch!) -- I know that sound wrong to say in this setting, I only say it to counter the "attracted to me" idea


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> You could wait a few more weeks to see if she brings it up. But didn't you bring up the first toy? She didn't volunteer it. So...tiptoeing around it might just result in you waiting around forever.
> 
> You're obviously open about it and you don't fly off the handle. Let her know you are down for any kind of fun. If she feels embarrassed, maybe she needs reassurance that you won't judge her, though you definitely don't seem like you do.


I do NOT want to ruin it (the idea of her opening up about this stuff and introducing some things of her own -- oh, like say the small vibratos she using every morning!!).. but yes, I could be waiting forever and then, well, that will just get me more upset (cycle continues!)...

no.... she has no idea I know of ANY of her purchases... I simply suggested that I thought we might benefit from "mixing things up" (I figured that was the saeftest way to slowly get her to realizing that HEY, he's cool with this stuff... maybe I can open up to him a little) -- I DOUBT she will produce the dildo... but, the small vibrators... i'm thinking... WHY DON'T YOU TRUST ME... WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO SHARE THIS PLEASURE YOU ARE HAVING WITH ME... and truth be told... she's used the small vibrators that I bought on me, and, well, they are not bad!

best as I can figure, she bought dildo ~ July 7..
- I found it ~july 15
- I introduced (on weekend away) toys July 20
- (I asked her to buy stuff ~8/1; never got stuff for us to share)
- her new items (small vibrators) were purchased ~Aug 15
- I suggested items (list through e-mail) Aug 24
- 2 weeks still waiting (but, again, I know I need to be patient - just not sure how long)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

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I need to run now... heading out for day (wife working part-time job third day in row! fri eve, sat eve, sun 1/2 the day)... makes me feel lonely for her... add this toy stuff on top of it... I KNOW she will come home this eve... i'll want sex... she'll be "...I worked every day this weekend, i'm tired..."

i'll have to be "understanding" and tomorrow, well, she do her thing again without me...

yes, i'm sounding like a sad sack right now!

thanks for the tips/advice thus far...

i'll look back later
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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

note: as I signed off before I had an idea... 

Originally I was going to (at one point) bring up the IT that I found in drawer... deal with all of that...

then, mention I came upon the others... and deal with that (in a different way)...

but, am thinking that perhaps I do this...

softly, gently at one point (soon) bring up having stumbled upon the small ones (I was not snooping around - honorably or otherwise; had a real need to get some nail polish)

say something like "...when looking for nail polish, I stumble upon them... a few weeks back when I needed headache med they were not there, so I assume they are new and you are still investigating them - like I have with all the things that I bought... prob a good idea to hide them better... am looking forward to when we can share them together...." (or something along these lines)

then it lets her know i'm not being judgemental... i'm looking forward to her introducing them... I KNOW they exist, so, i'll be expecting them to show up someday...

and...

it "disconnects" this initial idea (of her opening up to me/feeling comfortable with me) from my discovery of the (IMO) the bigger fish in the room (the dildo!) and my less then honorable (though it was 1/2 honorable) way of discovering it... however, I really did not have to look in the other drawer to KNOW she has something! The battery pack in the bra drawer was enough to know (and that was surely innocent)


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

For as much as I espouse being sexually open and explorative, I am still shy about asking to bring a few specific toys into our play. Just saying... She may not take to it right away, but if you keep taking the lead, keep showing her you WANT this to be a part of your sex TOGETHER, she will come around and open up more...IMO.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

hopeful2112 said:


> re: enjoying sex with me... I believe she does... but how can I guy really tell?!
> 
> When asked recently she said that she does and can enjoy sex with me...
> 
> ...


Well vibrators are different, there are different levels of climax and the ones vibrators provide are pretty intense. They can't take the pace of the intimacy sex with your partner provides though. Perhaps you could ask her to let you watch? Then graduate to touching her while she uses them? My hb will play with my breasts while i masturbate sometimes and it's quite intimate. Maybe that would be something safe for her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Out of curiosity, are your W and D close? Here's why I ask...

My parents have not been intimate in almost 20 years though they do live in the same home, they even have separate bedrooms. My mother and I are ridiculously close (she's my best friend) and I've known since I was a teenager that she was "lonely". In my late teens, early 20s, I started dropping little comments around my mother about how much I LOVE my detachable shower head, or remarking on how some gadget looked like a lot of fun when we saw a commercial for Adam & Eve, or something similar. She eventually confessed to me a few years ago that she was just too embarrassed to purchase/use anything herself. So I put together a little kit for her that included everything she would need (toy, lube, wipes, scented candles, a gift card to Adam & Eve and written directions on how to order stuff online) and presented it to her. I have no idea if she ever used it but she did seem uh, happier starting shortly after that. And about a year ago she asked my father to buy and install her a detachable shower head in her bathroom...

So, is it possible that your daughter or even a close friend introduced her to the idea?? Or even better, BOUGHT the original toy you found for your wife? Could be it was bought and was possibly overwhelming for her. She may not have even used it! But between it and the toys you introduced, she became comfortable enough to explore a little on her own?

I would suggest not saying anything about finding the ones in the bathroom. Just next time she is in the mood and you two are getting frisky, tell her to hang on a sec, grab one from the bathroom and slink back to her with a smile and a verbal desire to use it with her. 
The biggest concern I would have is if she is using it way too often without you. I eventually tossed all my toys because I was using them to "fill in" when he wasn't in the mood (I'm HD, he's LD) and I was becoming desensitized to intimacy with my H. Bad move on my part!


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Secretly put some Tabasco sauce or Ben-Gay on all of her vibrators, and then just wait for the fun to happen when you hear that shriek from the bedroom or shower...


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Why are all men so afraid of that rabbit? Personally I have one and it's not my favorite toy... it's more gimmick (unless some women like it, my gf's agree with me on the rabbit)

As far as the toys...
Has she had an orgasm with you before?

Sometimes women have a hard time having an orgasm with a partner, it takes patience. She may be afraid to tell you that it's hard for her to orgasm with you... not because of something you are doing wrong.

She may also be afraid to tell you about the toys because she thinks you may have a problem with them.

Or if you are having issues in your sex life a toy is a good way for her to learn about her body and hopefully have sex more often/confidently.
The more you have sex (alone or with a partner) the more you crave it.

You would be surprised how many women in their 20's, 30's 40's etc cannot have an orgasm or never had one before.

The fact that she really isn't hiding this may also mean she wants you to find it.. maybe she doesn't know how to tell you that she would like for you to use it with her.

You should be able to have a convo about this.. tell her you found it.. and then listen, be supportive and don't act like it's a big deal.

Eventually she may be comfortable enough to let you in on her sexy time!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> Out of curiosity, are your W and D close? Here's why I ask...
> 
> My parents have not been intimate in almost 20 years though they do live in the same home, they even have separate bedrooms. My mother and I are ridiculously close (she's my best friend) and I've known since I was a teenager that she was "lonely". In my late teens, early 20s, I started dropping little comments around my mother about how much I LOVE my detachable shower head, or remarking on how some gadget looked like a lot of fun when we saw a commercial for Adam & Eve, or something similar. She eventually confessed to me a few years ago that she was just too embarrassed to purchase/use anything herself. *So I put together a little kit for her that included everything she would need (toy, lube, wipes, scented candles, a gift card to Adam & Eve and written directions on how to order stuff online) and presented it to her. I have no idea if she ever used it but she did seem uh, happier starting shortly after that. And about a year ago she asked my father to buy and install her a detachable shower head in her bathroom...*
> 
> ...



:iagree:
I love this!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Secretly put some Tabasco sauce or Ben-Gay on all of her vibrators, and then just wait for the fun to happen when you hear that shriek from the bedroom or shower...


I HATE this!
:rofl:


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Ah the detachable shower head.. a must for all bathrooms 

That is awesome!


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

hum......we got that


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

hopeful2112 said:


> re: enjoying sex with me... I believe she does... but how can I guy really tell?!
> 
> When asked recently she said that she does and can enjoy sex with me...
> 
> ...


Are you saying that prior to asking her this, you didn't know whether or not she was orgasming with you?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I can tell you she probably ended up with the Rabbit - because it gets a ton of buzz from other women. Sex and the City even had a whole episode on it where they had to do an intervention on one of the characters because she was masturbating with it so much. Its a notorious vibrator. 

There is a desireable sensation with clitoral stimulating mixed with vaginal penetration. A lot of women are getting their orgasms through foreplay, not PIV, and don't get to feel a penis in the vagina at the same time they are getting off. The first inch or so of the vag is very sensitive and this is where the rotating beads of the Rabbit add sensation.

Having said that - I had one for a little while and I thought it was just okay. It was noisy and I pretty much had to put new batteries in the thing every time I tried it out. I had better orgasms other ways.

It may be indeed that she prefers vibration - you can pretty much make a grocery list in your head and get off at the same time. It is mindless. It is a completely different feel than interacting on an emotional /physical level with a spouse. It takes much less energy and thought. I imagine its the same when men masturbate. 

I don't know that I would confront her about it in the near future. It seems the crux of your problem is that you want more sex and you view her masturbating as a drain on her sexual energy - energy that you want. However it seems your relationship is in a rebuilding phase right now and she may take your poking around in her business as a sign that you find her untrustworthy. (And perhaps you do - but telling her so may not be helpful.)


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I have to say that I do not understand the advice given in this thread. If the OP had been a woman stating that her H was watching porn and masturbating while turning her down for sex (which is what my H does) the advice would have been very different.

OP, you absolutely have the right to know if and why your wife is having “solo sex” while denying you. So why not ask her calmly and matter-of-factly if she is doing it and why, especially when she already knows that you want more frequent sex (BTW want you want is totally reasonable). You might not like the answer, I know I didn’t when I asked the same question of my H, but you will at least know the truth and can make any necessary decisions for yourself based on truth and not speculation.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You wanted to have honesty in your relationship with your wife and neither of you are being honest. You knew about the jack rabbit dildo and said nothing to her. Then you find the hide and seek ones that she can use while showering and said nothing and she's always got a headache and not in the mood but wacks off everyday with her toys. When are you two guys going to stop the bull $h!t and level with one another. 

I would be pissed if she had a drawer full of toys and giving them the business and you have to beg. It's called COMMUNICATION! Tell her that you know all about her stash of dildos and that by using them on herself and leaving you in the cold IMO is just like cheating and if that's the way it's going to be then take your toys and shove each and every one of them sideways and leave. Your not being honest and she's lying to your face. 

Maybe you should order a few of those life like vaginas and a bottle of KY and give her what she's giving. When you get replaced by a dildo, you may as well pull up a chair and watch her with another guy. I can understand that she might want to have a little fun with them but not at your expense and your just going with the flow and if it keeps up your house is going to look like an adult book store. Time to put a halt to this and find out just what the hell is going on with her. It's called honesty and you both owe each other that.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't agree with her turning her H down for sex - although it seems the frequency hasn't increased or decreased since the addition of the vibrators.

From my POV women masturbating is a little bit of a different game than men masturbating. For a woman it can be very difficult to get to the orgasm part with a man - for some it takes concentration and the right time of the month and a certain amount of time to warm up to the idea. Women have sex without orgasms all the time. 

Also, bringing a fleshlight into the picture - for a wife who regularly gets out of sex - she may be like - good, less sex for me. Punishing a lower drive spouse by withholding sex does not work. It gives them what they want.

I don't know, I have mixed feeling on this subject. I cant think of 10 times in 10 years that I have turned my H down for sex. Ive had years of using vibrators and years of not. If anything it made me want more sex. This OP and his wife are recently reconciled from a separation. I think the problem is more acute. than her having a few vibrators.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm going come off as the contrarian here, but I really hope you will read this through and give what I have to say some thought before dismissing it.

Reading and re-reading the details of your situation, I see a few red-flags that really concern me, and I believe they should concern you. I'm basing this in part on my own life experiences, but they are, based on what I've learned here, not that unusual. They need to be examined and resolved before you reveal more to her.

DO NOT bring it up to her that you know about her toys and habits ... yet. You need to gather some more information first. I have been in your shoes, and when I was there, having inadvertently discovered that my (ex) wife's libido was something other than dead, I rushed to her revealing what I knew, all earnest and hopeful that it would help 'open things up' and eventually 'make things better' in the bedroom between us. In hindsight, it was one of the stupider things I did.

Instead you need to find out more about what's going on with her first without asking her. Please, please hear me out. Right now you know just two things:

1) Her interest in sex, and enjoying her sexuality has taken, a sudden and unusual change for the greater.

2) She's not interested in *MORE* sex *WITH YOU*. She's been with you nearly 30 years. She knows she has a willing penis and partner on demand (from you) anytime she wants one. She's having a lot more orgasms, but she still turns your down regularly. You have hard data on this. So there is a disconnect between you and when she's getting off.

and I would add..

3) You appear to be in an a "do anything to save my marriage" mindset, recovering from events of the past two years. I've been in that exact mindset, and when I was, I had a lot of blinders on, so focused on trying to move mountains and mend bridges I was, and I missed a lot of stuff I should have been paying attention to.

Where I am going with this is: You ABSOLUTELY need to find out if there is someone (or something) else out there... and to what extent it matters. Maybe she's fantasizing about a movie star every time she uses a vibe. Maybe she's replaying the last time the co-worker at her part-time job banged her senseless in the broom closet. Maybe, and more likely it's somewhere inbetween in the spectrum. Maybe's she thinking about the High School Boyfriend before you, or running away to Europe and starting over. Maybe she read 50 shades. But whatever it is, she's made a point of NOT telling you, and not sharing her increased sexuality with you. Sure it could be "that time of life" when her hormones go into overdrive... but.. if so, WHY isn't she jumping your bones daily then?

Let me mention some things I learned the hard way and then some red flags I saw. (We may need more details from you on some of them)

1) A lot of wives, after being married a long time, lose a lot of respect (and desire) for their husbands. They see them as someone to be managed, someone to being home money, and help with the kids, and as their safety net and backup plan. And they will tell their husbands that they "love them" and "want things to work out" and convince everyone that they mean it, but the fire inside for their husbands has gone out and they just go along on auto-pilot. Not just the passion, but the mental and emotional closeness becomes of shell of its original self. It happens more often in first marriages, where both parties didn't have a lot of prior experience to use to avoid the long slow slide.

2) Those same wives, who don't get very excited over their husbands, and have settled into the routine of life, will often light up big time when some other/new man shows interest in them. Even if they have firm boundaries, and make it clear to someone hitting on them that they are not interested, they still usually get a rush of chemicals in the brain that excites and turns them on. Lots of dopamine and other stuff, in quantities that she doesn't get from her long standing relationship. I had a friend from High School whose wife worked at department store after their kids entered school. He could always tell when she got hit on by customers, because his normally dead sex life would fire up for a while after every time it happened. It sucks because he told her constantly how much he loved her, how beautiful she was to him, and so on, and she would dismiss it internally as "just him" and keep on rejecting him, but when a stranger showed interest, she suddenly felt beautiful and sexy and would pounce him. It sad, but basic biology, that the new and strange can light up the brain in ways the known and familiar can't.

3) Your wife moved out for almost half a year, and then a year ago moved back in. I will bet money that during that time she was on her own, she though about starting a new life without you, and in her mind's eye it probably looked better than what she's (according to her) she had already with you - (it usually looks very attractive before the realities of doing so are confronted). Yet it sounds like bad things happened financially, and that could be a big reason why she came back. (could use some clarification here).

4) She's now working more than ever before, including a second job for which 1) she doesn't need the money, and 2) minimizes the time to be with you.. You said she's doing it for "Social" reasons. what sort of new "social reasons" does a 47-year old wife and mother suddenly have?

5) Money from her part-time job is her's and her's alone - apparently a new financial arrangement - yet, according to you, she's got financial issues (broke)- so what the heck is she spending it on? it sounds like you don't have any visibility into what she spends it on it. Why does she need secret funds??

6) Every time you've presented her a very easy and smooth way for her to reveal her purchases to you without having to admit to when she got them, she's declined, and you only know that from snooping, as she's feeding you a different story/presenting a different face. My fiance suggested it could be embarrassment about her masturbation, but that issue apparently has been broached between the two of you with the toys that you bought and gave to her. So why does she feel it's in her interest to hide them, and keep a facade up?

Something here is just not adding up for me. It could be my own experience bias, but if you read the CWI forum here, you'll see that some of the concerns mentioned are common.

In my own case, my ex-wife had been cheating on me, on and off for 15+ years, and me convinced I was the one that needed to do all the work to make our relationship better. I'm not saying that your wife is cheating on you - it's really not clear. But I am saying that that a lot of your situation of COULD be explained by her having some sort of interaction with another man. Anything from flirting to sexting to worse. And that you need to 1) open your eyes to the possibility, and 2) secretly investigate a bit and rule it out so you can go forward with more certainty (or start a thread in CWI - which I hope you never need to do).

Do you have access to all her financials? Her email? Her phone? Since coming back a year ago, has there been a change in the amount of privacy she demands? Are there times you can't really account for her whereabouts? Entirely new behaviors (Going out for drinks with girlfriends, etc)? Are you so focused on what you can "do" to fix things that she's being given a lot of freedom to do whatever the heck she wants? Why won't she give up the second job even though you've made it clear it's not needed?

You need answers, BUT... your wife has already shown you.. repeatedly.. that she does NOT have a problem keeping you in the dark about some things. If you come asking about things that she doesn't want you to know, she is going to lie to you.. she already has, according to you. So the only sure way to get the full truth to be sure is to investigate without tipping her off. 

I'm sorry to be going down a route of suspicion, but I was, and know a lot of other men our age, who knew they wives weren't very into them, but were CLUELESS that their wives were really getting into someone else... until they were blindsided. I hope you'll consider everything, look into things, and get some certainty about the why's and what's that she's up to -- your wife clearly isn't going to give it you that info if you go to her, so you need to get it via other means. And don't feel bad for checking up on her this way - your intentions are honorable - you want the marriage repaired and to succeed in the long term, and by all accounts it's been recently rocked. You need to have accurate intelligence to do the job right. Just ask any modern military!


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## krepspzns (Sep 9, 2013)

They could desensitize her to manual stimulation and make an orgasm without them impossible.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> For as much as I espouse being sexually open and explorative, I am still shy about asking to bring a few specific toys into our play. Just saying... She may not take to it right away, but if you keep taking the lead, keep showing her you WANT this to be a part of your sex TOGETHER, she will come around and open up more...IMO.


I'm hopeful you are right. This is what i think i'm kinda doing (slowly introducing things... to make her feel comfortable... hoping that at one point she will "meet me 1/2 way")


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Well vibrators are different, there are different levels of climax and the ones vibrators provide are pretty intense. They can't take the pace of the intimacy sex with your partner provides though. Perhaps you could ask her to let you watch? Then graduate to touching her while she uses them? My hb will play with my breasts while i masturbate sometimes and it's quite intimate. Maybe that would be something safe for her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In time i plan to introduce something that she could use on her, while i do "other things to her" (so, yes... thanks this is the gentle direction in which i'm headed)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> So, is it possible that your daughter or even a close friend introduced her to the idea?? Or even better, BOUGHT the original toy you found for your wife? Could be it was bought and was possibly overwhelming for her. She may not have even used it! But between it and the toys you introduced, she became comfortable enough to explore a little on her own?
> 
> I would suggest not saying anything about finding the ones in the bathroom. Just next time she is in the mood and you two are getting frisky, tell her to hang on a sec, grab one from the bathroom and slink back to her with a smile and a verbal desire to use it with her.
> The biggest concern I would have is if she is using it way too often without you. I eventually tossed all my toys because I was using them to "fill in" when he wasn't in the mood (I'm HD, he's LD) and I was becoming desensitized to intimacy with my H. Bad move on my part!


W and D are close, but, not that close (as far a i know). Though someone (a sister in law) could have gotten it for her -- but i doubt that as well. She is (supposedly) seeing her own therapist, so, perhaps the idea came from that...

as for your suggestion of me going and getting it from bathroom. I do not think that that would be good... i fear she would feel like i was forcing the idea upon her (me using HER STUFF on her without her prior consent...)... but, if i mention i saw them... and mention my eagerness in her introducing thme, it leaves the "power" with her...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

bunny23 said:


> Why are all men so afraid of that rabbit? Personally I have one and it's not my favorite toy... it's more gimmick (unless some women like it, my gf's agree with me on the rabbit)
> 
> As far as the toys...
> Has she had an orgasm with you before?
> ...


As far as i can tell (and based on her answers as of late), yes, she has climaxed before... but, it is true... perhaps she has not really had a FULL orgasm until the toys... and now is just not sure how to tell me about that (even though i have tried my best to help her open up to me)...

as for wanting me to find it in the bathroom drawer... i did find it odd that it was just SITTING on top of her makeup, etc... (now the ~4 inch one is in small makeup bag; smaller one is still oose uner the bag), however, i do not think that that is the case... she would have no reason to think anyone woudl go in that drawer... though, true... if she was concerned about it being found by... oh, our son or our daughter (or myself) she would have secured it better...

who knows...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

JrsMrs said:


> Are you saying that prior to asking her this, you didn't know whether or not she was orgasming with you?



no... no... I've occasionally inquired... and, she has always said yes...

i'm just asking more now because i get a sense that she is responding in ways (VERY ENTHUSIATIC WAYS!) to the vibrators that make me think that perhaps, in the past, she may not have really climaxed... and now IS!

i even said the otherday... "...I've been doing some reading and i have found out that some women have never climaxed without the assitance of toys... is this the case with you? if so... it would make me sad for you, for us... and i want you to enjoy things as well..." (i'm paraphrasing now)...

she assured me that she had climaxed before it is just "different" with the vibrators...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

bunny23 said:


> Ah the detachable shower head.. a must for all bathrooms
> 
> That is awesome!


maybe i can suggest getting one...?

but, then, i'd be (IMO) facilitaing her even FURTHER taking me out of the equation!


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I can tell you she probably ended up with the Rabbit - because it gets a ton of buzz from other women. Sex and the City even had a whole episode on it where they had to do an intervention on one of the characters because she was masturbating with it so much. Its a notorious vibrator.
> 
> There is a desireable sensation with clitoral stimulating mixed with vaginal penetration. A lot of women are getting their orgasms through foreplay, not PIV, and don't get to feel a penis in the vagina at the same time they are getting off. The first inch or so of the vag is very sensitive and this is where the rotating beads of the Rabbit add sensation.
> 
> ...


you GET that i am in a very delicate place (re: rebuilding... and trust issues)...

i fear this ALL coudl blow up in my face if it is not done correctly.... however, one thing that we are dealing with with our therapist is being more opened... discussing issues more freely and taking responsibility for having made mistakes... (i.e, throwing ourselves at the mercy of our spouse)...

i.e., i innocently found teh first battery pack looking for bra size... i then mae a mistake by looking further... 

HOWEVER my having done that has opened up a new world to both of us... and that is a GOOD THING (as long as her are partners in it -- which is teh current cocnern for me)...

i think it will be (in the long run) productive for our relationship of rebuilding/trusting/forgiveness for being human for me to tell her about the battery pack then finding the rabbit in the drawer...

it will show her that i'm human (like her) and can make mistakes (like her) i can be honest and opened about my mistakes (which is something she needs to work on -- re: $ issues in the past) and i want/need am deserving of forgiveness (like her)


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

time for the I think we should give eachother the right of first refusal before we take matter into our own hands.

although I would make sure she didn't hook up when you guys were seperated and is pining for him.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> I have to say that I do not understand the advice given in this thread. If the OP had been a woman stating that her H was watching porn and masturbating while turning her down for sex (which is what my H does) the advice would have been very different.
> 
> OP, you absolutely have the right to know if and why your wife is having “solo sex” while denying you. So why not ask her calmly and matter-of-factly if she is doing it and why, especially when she already knows that you want more frequent sex (BTW want you want is totally reasonable). You might not like the answer, I know I didn’t when I asked the same question of my H, but you will at least know the truth and can make any necessary decisions for yourself based on truth and not speculation.


i do apprecaite your candid (and alternative) advice.

A part of me feels teh way you do about this...

but, i have been through a very long ordeal with my wife (was ~3 years of HELL before i found out ~1.5 years ago re: $ issues that she was hiding from me and now ~1 year - TODAY! - of her being back in the house and us working through the issues with a therapis).

our marriage/trust issues did not develop overnight and they will not go away overnight either...

I'm not yet at the point of saying she is "denying me" (in favor or her private toys)... but, i fear that THAT could be coming at me soon (based on prior low interest in sex with me... prior "denying"... etc...)

time will tell if her private toys are used instead of "time with me"

if weeks go by and she does not initaite and turns down my advacnes, well, i think i will then have my "data" - i'm just here now trying to get a handle on how i should approach the situation to either "stem the tide" or, perhaps (sadly if need be) deal with it after the fact...

i'm sorry to hear of your own issues... it is/can be frustrating (knowing that you are opening yourself up.. being honest about your needs and not having spouse understand)


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't get why you'd take her back only to remain in such a low sex place. Are you codependent? It's pretty clear she has 100% of the power in this relationship.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Anubis wrote a pretty in-depth post on page two, I would like to hear the OP respond to it before I comment further.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

So basically OP has come here asking how to approach her about this but has shot down nearly every suggestion because he's terrified of upsetting the apple cart. Keeps more or less saying he is going to "wait it out" until she comes to him with it. Well, good luck with that! 
Even in your commentary here and what you tell us you are saying to your W, you sound very VERY passive. Are you usually so passive about everything/being so scared to upset her? If so, has it always been this way? IMO, that is a major turn off to some women. Maybe your wife would like you to stop asking her permission for everything and just taking the initiative? Honestly, if my husband came to me and said "Honey, are you okay if I bring some toys/lube into bed?" I'd be dismayed. I would much rather him surprise me with it in the heat of the moment where I still have the choice to say thanks but no thanks!


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

6301 said:


> You wanted to have honesty in your relationship with your wife and neither of you are being honest. You knew about the jack rabbit dildo and said nothing to her. Then you find the hide and seek ones that she can use while showering and said nothing and she's always got a headache and not in the mood but wacks off everyday with her toys. When are you two guys going to stop the bull $h!t and level with one another.
> 
> I would be pissed if she had a drawer full of toys and giving them the business and you have to beg. It's called COMMUNICATION! Tell her that you know all about her stash of dildos and that by using them on herself and leaving you in the cold IMO is just like cheating and if that's the way it's going to be then take your toys and shove each and every one of them sideways and leave. Your not being honest and she's lying to your face.
> 
> Maybe you should order a few of those life like vaginas and a bottle of KY and give her what she's giving. When you get replaced by a dildo, you may as well pull up a chair and watch her with another guy. I can understand that she might want to have a little fun with them but not at your expense and your just going with the flow and if it keeps up your house is going to look like an adult book store. Time to put a halt to this and find out just what the hell is going on with her. It's called honesty and you both owe each other that.


indeed there is a communication issue here (but historically it has been her -> me; i'm regularly the one to bring up difficult/awkward issues/situations).

as for not having disclosed finding the first "toy" -- without knowing the players here and the personailities (and the deep and complicated situation that we are digging our selvesz out from), yes, i see you point exactly...

but, sadly, since i felt i needed to be understanding/compassionate, i decided to follow the path i described above... (re: buying some things and introducing them... so she would/could feel comfortable when i finally disclosed about my discovery). Perhaps i could have (and should have) disclosed right away, but, well... i was hurt/sad and KNEW that those feelings would likely overide the understanding/compassionate feelings...

as for just "going at it" myself with a bunch of toys of my own?

well, that (IMO - at this moment) might be taking too negative (and a less-than understanding) approach.

as i said before, i'm concerned... i'm not yet convinced i'm being "taken out of the loop" (i came here to get some perspective -- and the suggestions that she might be in an "exploring phase" is what helps ground me right now... as this all unfolds...)

thanks for the perspective though... you do NOT know how much i want to simply turn negative about this all...

however, if i were to do that, it could un-do a lot of "progress" we have had...

as for finding the otherones (in bathroom)...

i think my approach to saying "by the way... etc... etc..." will be a fair/balanced way to handle that...

only time (and her reactions to all of this) will tell.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I don't agree with her turning her H down for sex - although it seems the frequency hasn't increased or decreased since the addition of the vibrators.
> 
> From my POV women masturbating is a little bit of a different game than men masturbating. For a woman it can be very difficult to get to the orgasm part with a man - for some it takes concentration and the right time of the month and a certain amount of time to warm up to the idea. Women have sex without orgasms all the time.
> 
> ...



The introducing of fleshlight as a "punishment" (as i think that poster was suggesting) is not the type of approach that i would want to take (personally) at this moment...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anubis said:


> I'm going come off as the contrarian here, but I really hope you will read this through and give what I have to say some thought before dismissing it.
> 
> 
> .....
> ...



you gave a lot to think about and i appreciate your time in having typed it (thought it through). It certainly is, well, the "darkest" inturpritation here (and, that obviously makes me concerned -- if it is the REAL interpritation)...

its tough for me to work through everything you have presented... lots of food for thought.

The "enhanced intelligenace gathering" that you suggest (even if it is for the greater purpose of working on our marriage) might backfire completely (even if there is nothing "sinister" in her behavior)...

i'll have to read over your post a couple times.... put some thoughts together to help with the clarification that you think would be helpful...

however, in my heart (yes, i could be stupid/clueless/naivee) do not think she is cheating "physically" (but, sure... she could be having fantacies)...

thanks again for your comments (even though they kind'a send a deep chill up my spine)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> time for the I think we should give eachother the right of first refusal before we take matter into our own hands.
> 
> although I would make sure she didn't hook up when you guys were seperated and is pining for him.



that's certainly a path i could suggest as this unfolds and we start "sharing" information.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't get why you'd take her back only to remain in such a low sex place. Are you codependent? It's pretty clear she has 100% of the power in this relationship.


re: take her back... well, all i can say is that we DID have a nice relationship at one point, we have 2 wonderful kids, i'm hopeful we can work things out... and yes, i had allowed her to "control things" (partly because i was building a career for myself/us and it was easier to let her be "in charge" of somethings -- clearly a mistake... mine... and hers...)

time will tell if we last (i know that)...

and

time will tell if the "sinister" (as suggested by others above) is at the root of what is going on here...

why am i still in the relationship?

because i remain hopeful

on the scale of "hell" 1000 units being the worst possible (which is where things were ~1.5 years ago...

i'd say i'm (we're) now at a 2 or so...

yes, some things need to be worked on/resolved...

but, things are that much better than they were...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> So basically OP has come here asking how to approach her about this but has shot down nearly every suggestion because he's terrified of upsetting the apple cart. Keeps more or less saying he is going to "wait it out" until she comes to him with it. Well, good luck with that!
> Even in your commentary here and what you tell us you are saying to your W, you sound very VERY passive. Are you usually so passive about everything/being so scared to upset her? If so, has it always been this way? IMO, that is a major turn off to some women. Maybe your wife would like you to stop asking her permission for everything and just taking the initiative? Honestly, if my husband came to me and said "Honey, are you okay if I bring some toys/lube into bed?" I'd be dismayed. I would much rather him surprise me with it in the heat of the moment where I still have the choice to say thanks but no thanks!


I apprecaite your comments/concerns...

perhaps my approach to this (and life in general) is off putting to some.

I typically am not a "reactionary" person and like to "take it all in" before i act...

true... maybe that might make me seem weak (to you/others/even wife)...

i veiw it as a source of strength... in being able to see the forest through the trees...

though yes, sometimes "action" is needed.

not sure what else to say about this post, but i do not think i have dismissed all suggestions (i'm trying my best to sew something together that produces an outcome that is good for not only me... but also my wife... and our relationship).


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> time for the I think we should give eachother the right of first refusal before we take matter into our own hands.
> 
> although I would make sure she didn't hook up when you guys were seperated and is pining for him.


an i forgot to mention... i honestly do not think she "hooked up" while we were part... but... i know some here will say "how do you really know" and "you are kidding yourself"


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The more you post, the more I see what the problem is. But I also see that you're not at a place where you can do anything about it yet, so going down that path would just be beating you up for no good. Anyway, I wish you luck. Perhaps she'll fix herself at some point.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

-----------------
i think i have caught up on all the advice thus far.

Indeed, some are deeper (that long one) and require a little thought on my part. I will respond, would be wrong to not get back to that poster since they put so much thought into their response.

I do want to clarify a few things:
1) as much as i'm concerned that she COULD be going down the path of using toys instead of interacting with me, i think it is too early to really make the full assesment that it IS the case.

2) frequency indeed has not changed (more or less) as someone else pointed out, so, at present, i cannot make the determination that i'm being taken out of the loop

3) in retrospect, i guess i should have OUT OF THE GATE disclosed that i found the rabbit (but because it linked to having "breached her privacy" (after having found battery pack), i did not think it made sense to have THAT over our heads as our anniversary was upon us (with a planned weekend away)

4) true, i could have just produced the things on the weekend away, but, i did not think that was the best way to "play it" (i.e., thought it better to get her input first)

5) other reasons why i may not have approached her about my "knowledge" of rabbit at the time we were dealing with a few other complicated issues that (IMO) were of bigger priority; for anyone who has gone through a separation, you often have to pick "which issue" to work through first (as too much at one time can simply overwhelm the situation)

5) I've decided i'm going to wait until 3 weeks has passed since having given her $ and ideas to buy stuff for us to "share." That (IMO) is more than fair in terms of giving her a chance (if she was really willing/interest) to look through list, place orders, items to come in and for us to be "together" to give her a chance to introduce them...

6) not sure how i'm going to handle the rabbit or small vibrators yet
--------------


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The more you post, the more I see what the problem is. But I also see that you're not at a place where you can do anything about it yet, so going down that path would just be beating you up for no good. Anyway, I wish you luck. Perhaps she'll fix herself at some point.


i know the path of what you speak... and i thank you for not beating me with it...

she and i both have issues we have to work on ("private ones" and "couple ones").

I'm in solo therapy... we are in joint therapy and, she has in the past (just not sure at present) gone to her own solo therapy...

all i can do is take advice from them... try my best to "rework" myself (as an individaul and as part of a couple) and see where it leads me/us

we did not get "here" overnight... but i do know that we (and she) has made progress and shown effort (in other areas), so..

that is something...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hopefull, the more I read your comments the more I agree with MyHappyPlace. I think your passive "wait and see" approach is very much like my husband's passive approach. And let me tell ya, I HATE IT!

IF, and I think it is safe to assume, your wife is going through the upsurge in her libido your sexual passivity is actually a huge turn off. I don't know what "moves" you use to initiate sex but I can tell you my own husbands "moves" to initiate are absolutely annoying! He is tentative, hesitant, as if I am going to bite his arm off. This is from a wife who doesn't get sex as often as she likes. His "moves" to initiate are nothing more than my cue to get actual foreplay started so Thats what I do. But if your wife is still dealing with the past issues, and I bet she is, she is going to NEED you to be much more direct, much more forceful, and much more aggressive.

Most women really do want their man to be aggressive in bed. Most women really do want their husbands to be strong and take the lead. Women with a history of turning down sex then finding themselves wanting it a LOT... Well that's a recipe for disaster.

I think you should send her a text telling her to save energy for tonight, no excuses. Send it many times. When she gets home start kissing her, come up behind her and kiss the back of her neck and whisper in her ear that tonight you will she will be putty in your hands. You'll notice that she is into it when she doesn't slap you... 

Then bring out all the toys! All of them and give her enough orgasms to make her faint from hyperventilating so much!

What the hell have you got to lose?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I just wanted to add that I think you are handling things as best you can at this moment. I am also in a rebuilding phase with my husband. It is difficult. Some days there seems like much progress has been made and other days it feels back to square one.

While my situation is not a lot like yours - I sympathize with your wife in that its just so so much easier to get yourself off. It is seductive in how easy it is and how little pressure to perform. You don't have to suck in or make sure you are shaved and showered. You can be wearing stupid granny panties and nobody cares because nobody is there to care.

Its hard to open up to these things and its hard to rebuild trust. Its hard to be that vulnerable with a spouse - really giving them and trusting them with that part of you that you have kept to yourself. Instead of being in control during sex you now have to try to be the opposite. Its difficult to change habits that may be decades old. Its scary to try and change the dynamic with a spouse. What if they reject you, what if this new sexual dynamic is a turn off to them? What if they resent you? 

In any case - I wish you and your wife well. I would love if my H would ask to bring toys in. 

And once again, I didn't find the rabbit to be all that. It was just okay. It might look intimidating but in my opinion its clunky and noisy and there is just too much going on at one time.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> I have to say that I do not understand the advice given in this thread. If the OP had been a woman stating that her H was watching porn and masturbating while turning her down for sex (which is what my H does) the advice would have been very different.
> 
> OP, you absolutely have the right to know if and why your wife is having “solo sex” while denying you. So why not ask her calmly and matter-of-factly if she is doing it and why, especially when she already knows that you want more frequent sex (BTW want you want is totally reasonable). You might not like the answer, I know I didn’t when I asked the same question of my H, but you will at least know the truth and can make any necessary decisions for yourself based on truth and not speculation.


true
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Absolutely no one, and I mean 100% without a shadow of a doubt, no one wants to believe that the person they love, or the person that loves them, is capable of acting in the most hurtful selfish manner possible by having an emotional or physical affair. A large part of our ability as humans to maintain pair bonded relationships comes from our ability to have, to a certain degree, blind faith in our partner. If we constantly approached our relationship from a defensive suspicious point of view, our margin for long term success would be nil. Another major component to what I am talking about is the brains ability to defend itself from harm/pain by selectively filtering out certain information from daily life.

I am really sorry that I have to jump on the infidelity bandwagon here, but the signs are too numerous to ignore. Even if she is currently not having any type of affair, the behaviors that she has exhibited, hiding, obscuring the truth, are in line with a person that is on a slippery slope and heading for serious marital trouble. 

I encourage you to spend some time reading through the CWI (Coping With Infidelity) section of TAM to get an idea for how mind numbingly and illogical affair behavior is. It subscribes to no rational rhyme or reason, and in most cases, is absolutely shocking in its severity. The things people are willing to do while they are in the affair fog are indescribable and warrant caution on every human level. 

If you take away nothing else from the warnings being voiced here, please make sure you at least understand this. Do not under any circumstances tip your hand to her about the fact that you know she has kept anything from you. If she is in fact having an affair, or even considering having one, the knowledge that you have discovered something about her without her knowing will drive those behaviors deeper underground, making verification much more difficult. Please, please, please, listen to what is being said to you, its coming from a place of care and empathy. 

I am close to the two year mark of Reconciliation with my wife. We were high school sweethearts and had been together for almost 16 years when she had an affair. We were the perfect couple, the envy of all of our friends, and the thought of her cheating was so foreign, it was almost unimaginable. Once you've gone through infidelity, especially if you chose the difficult road of Reconciliation, you begin to notice red flags with ease because of how focused you become on eliminating negative behaviors and strengthening positive ones. My red flag alarm alarm went off as I read your thread, Anibus beat me to the punch when it came to being the bearer of unimaginably horrible possibility. If we are wrong, I will celebrate the fact with all of my heart, but if we are even partially correct, and our warnings help you limit the damage, help her out of any affair fog she is in quickly, and get you two to a place of Reconciliation, I will consider it a blessing.Thank you for listening. 

-Paladin


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anubis said:


> I'm going come off as the contrarian here, but I really hope you will read this through and give what I have to say some thought before dismissing it.




Ok, I have tried my best to work through the MANY important (all-be-it in some cases) “dark” ideas/suggestions. I could say “no… that is not what’s happening here,” however, can I really know…. NO.

Before I work through those comments, I do want to take a step back and try to see if I have accurately captured the types of advice given here.

As I see it, the advice/feedback I have gotten falls in to 3 very distinct categories:

1) This is normal, just let it ride and see how things go over the next few weeks, etc (i.e., be patient with it and her)

2) You need to ADDRESS IT NOW and be opened/up front about your knowledge of the items and TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS

3) Dude, you are kidding yourself… she’s being selfish, she’s probably using you, etc… etc… (among other “dark” suggestions)

As I have mentioned, I have been in therapy with my own therapist (we also go to a different joint therapist) and, well, repeatedly he has suggested that “patience needs to be your best friend” (i.e., state your needs, but give her time and space to fill them). With a few things very recently (external to this sex stuff) she has risen to the occasion. This advice from him is echoed by the advice captured in #1 above.

Also, he has suggested that I be direct about my needs and be firm and then follow the “patience” approach (i.e., this is the idea captured above in item #2, then followed up by item #1); side note… he is on vacation the past 2 weeks, that is why I have reached out here – I’ll need to fill him in upon his return.

So, from that perspective, many, though not all of the comments seem to fall in line (somewhere) with advice from someone who knows the players (me and my wife; as best as he can know her from what I have covered with him).

The last category is, well, dark (though could be VERY TRUE!) and pursuing that path out of the gate (again, recall the bathroom vibrators prob came into the house ~2-3 weeks ago), is, from my perspective (with the idea of being “hopeful” – hence my screen name) is not path I’m ready to embrace (though yes, I know it is a path that might need to be taken once all the info comes in).

So, with that said, let me address the “dark” and see where it takes me…

-----------------------
DO NOT bring it up to her that you know about her toys and habits ... yet. You need to gather some more information first. I have been in your shoes, and when I was there, having inadvertently discovered that my (ex) wife's libido was something other than dead, I rushed to her revealing what I knew, all earnest and hopeful that it would help 'open things up' and eventually 'make things better' in the bedroom between us. In hindsight, it was one of the stupider things I did.

_>>> I’m sorry to hear of your own experiences, and yes, I can see how that could lead you to think I could be in the same boat, so… I do appreciate your candor…_



2) She's not interested in MORE sex WITH YOU. She's been with you nearly 30 years. She knows she has a willing penis and partner on demand (from you) anytime she wants one. She's having a lot more orgasms, but she still turns your down regularly. You have hard data on this. So there is a disconnect between you and when she's getting off.

_>>> perhaps I’m mincing words here… but, ever since she came back, we have had sex ~1.5 weeks… yes, not as much as I would want (come on, let’s be honest, I’d want it everyday!; though I’d be happy with a once per week “schedule” – I’ve scanned the boards here and I get a sense that things could be MUCH WORSE off for me… so, I really want to (and feel I need to) put that in perspective…_


3) You appear to be in an a "do anything to save my marriage" mindset, recovering from events of the past two years. I've been in that exact mindset, and when I was, I had a lot of blinders on, so focused on trying to move mountains and mend bridges I was, and I missed a lot of stuff I should have been paying attention to.

_>>> indeed, I am in the “do anything” mode, but the anything is not EVERYTHING. I have had to be very firm about many expectations over the past year and, she has, for the most part met me ½ with most of them. The ones where are struggle are the “deep ones” in our relationship – i.e., we are still going to counseling._


Where I am going with this is: You ABSOLUTELY need to find out if there is someone (or something) else out there... and to what extent it matters. Maybe she's fantasizing about a movie star every time she uses a vibe. Maybe she's replaying the last time the co-worker at her part-time job banged her senseless in the broom closet. Maybe, and more likely it's somewhere inbetween in the spectrum. Maybe's she thinking about the High School Boyfriend before you, or running away to Europe and starting over. Maybe she read 50 shades. But whatever it is, she's made a point of NOT telling you, and not sharing her increased sexuality with you. Sure it could be "that time of life" when her hormones go into overdrive... but.. if so, WHY isn't she jumping your bones daily then?


_>>> this part (the above) is difficult to address, but I will try. Indeed, she betrayed my trust re: the financial issues, but, I honestly cannot think she “hooked up” while we were apart. Will I ever know that? Of course not. Is there a way to find out without asking her? Probably not. There is not much I can do on that front. As for the fantasies re: old boy friends, movies stars. There’s no way to find that out either. And even if I did, not sure what I would do with the info. You ask “why is she not jumping my bones” – that’s why I’m here! (joking aside). It could be as others have suggested: not being sexually comfortable with me, not really knowing how to handle it/address it. No idea. _ 


1) A lot of wives, after being married a long time, lose a lot of respect (and desire) for their husbands. They see them as someone to be managed, someone to being home money, and help with the kids, and as their safety net and backup plan. And they will tell their husbands that they "love them" and "want things to work out" and convince everyone that they mean it, but the fire inside for their husbands has gone out and they just go along on auto-pilot. Not just the passion, but the mental and emotional closeness becomes of shell of its original self. It happens more often in first marriages, where both parties didn't have a lot of prior experience to use to avoid the long slow slide.

_>>> I fully understand and agree that this could be the case here, however, we had something and if the “darkness” that consumed her regarding bad decisions re: $ helped to undo what we had, I’m hopeful that the rebuilding we are doing with re-LIGHT that fire (if it is gone) – yes, I can hear some now “what a foul.” What can I say… we have 2 children that I do not want to see come from a broken home and rather then starting all over with someone new, I’m willing to go “all in” to see if we can get this marriage back on its feet. _


3) Your wife moved out for almost half a year, and then a year ago moved back in. I will bet money that during that time she was on her own, she though about starting a new life without you, and in her mind's eye it probably looked better than what she's (according to her) she had already with you - (it usually looks very attractive before the realities of doing so are confronted). Yet it sounds like bad things happened financially, and that could be a big reason why she came back. (could use some clarification here).

_>>> ok, from my perspective I know I was thinking “what would life be like if…” (so, i too am certain she thought the same thing). As for it looking more attractive to her. I’m certain it did, because she would then not have to confront rebuilding and taking responsibility for her actions… who wants to do that? As for the financial issues… she got into a “mess” with household bills that than spiraled out of control… I found out in a “bit here” and a “bit there” (2 different situation were unfolding) and it was I who had to ask her to leave (probably the most difficult thing I ever had to do)._


4) She's now working more than ever before, including a second job for which 1) she doesn't need the money, and 2) minimizes the time to be with you.. You said she's doing it for "Social" reasons. what sort of new "social reasons" does a 47-year old wife and mother suddenly have?

_>>> The social component is that at her full-time job there really are no “friends” (per se) – no one her own age and mostly man (yes, I here you know!); the part-time job is at a clothing store working in the women’s section. While being a “stay at home mom” she never really had any social connections… so, she likes to work it to be able to interact with the other women there. Also, since her other job is not “permanent” (it’s a temp to hire position without paid holidays) she wants to keep part-time job in case full time does not work out in the long run (I do not really buy this one), but… on the surface it has a tad bit of logic (though not much) since it took her a long while to find current full time job_


5) Money from her part-time job is her's and her's alone - apparently a new financial arrangement - yet, according to you, she's got financial issues (broke)- so what the heck is she spending it on? it sounds like you don't have any visibility into what she spends it on it. Why does she need secret funds??


_>>> this certainly is an issue that I often have to address… the part-time job is may be ~ $65 per week. She claims she needs to keep it separate as a buffer for when office is closed (no paid holidays)… again, a tad bit of logic, but not much… _

6) Every time you've presented her a very easy and smooth way for her to reveal her purchases to you without having to admit to when she got them, she's declined, and you only know that from snooping, as she's feeding you a different story/presenting a different face. My fiance suggested it could be embarrassment about her masturbation, but that issue apparently has been broached between the two of you with the toys that you bought and gave to her. So why does she feel it's in her interest to hide them, and keep a facade up?

_>>> I’m at a loss for this one as well (hence why I am here), but, if this is an “up surge” issue and she is still uncertain of it all… (and sexually “closed” due to upbringing or what have you), I feel I need to give her a tad bit of “benefit of the doubt” (within reason)_



In my own case, my ex-wife had been cheating on me, on and off for 15+ years, and me convinced I was the one that needed to do all the work to make our relationship better. I'm not saying that your wife is cheating on you - it's really not clear. But I am saying that that a lot of your situation of COULD be explained by her having some sort of interaction with another man. Anything from flirting to sexting to worse. And that you need to 1) open your eyes to the possibility, and 2) secretly investigate a bit and rule it out so you can go forward with more certainty (or start a thread in CWI - which I hope you never need to do).


_>>> indeed, it could be true… but, I simply cannot conceive that that is what is happening here_

Do you have access to all her financials? Her email? Her phone? Since coming back a year ago, has there been a change in the amount of privacy she demands?


_>>> no, no demands on needing privacy (but no, I do not have access to her finances – therapist suggested to separate all our finances – this IMO was a BAD idea, but he thought it would be good (at least for a while).. he now advocates bringing it all back together… I’ll be moving us in that direction. And no… no access to her e-mails, phone (well, I could scan the phone records # called or txted… as I’m in charge of that acct.)_





Are there times you can't really account for her whereabouts?


_>>> no…_


Entirely new behaviors (Going out for drinks with girlfriends, etc)?


_>>> no…_


Are you so focused on what you can "do" to fix things that she's being given a lot of freedom to do whatever the heck she wants?


_>>> no…_


You need answers, BUT... your wife has already shown you.. repeatedly.. that she does NOT have a problem keeping you in the dark about some things.

_>>> this is true… and sad… with $ it was (IMO) vanity (did not want to admit she had made a mistake or needed my help)… and that was (at the end of the day – a sinister thing to do)… but here… keeping me in the dark (for this relatively short period of time regarding something that we NEVER really talked about… never ONCE had I ever asked her before my chat with her prior to our anniversary if she masturbated), I’m trying hard not to think/turn it “dark” – as I said in my title… just a little concerned…_


If you come asking about things that she doesn't want you to know, she is going to lie to you.. she already has, according to you. So the only sure way to get the full truth to be sure is to investigate without tipping her off. 

_>>> this makes me feel awkward, but I do get your point_


And don't feel bad for checking up on her this way - your intentions are honorable - you want the marriage repaired and to succeed in the long term, and by all accounts it's been recently rocked. You need to have accurate intelligence to do the job right. Just ask any modern military! 

_>>> I agree fully! It is just the methods of gathering the info that, well, could result in more harm then good…

I hope I have clarified some things…

And I will close this buy saying…

Indeed, SEX is one part (an important part) of a marriage… but to look for the DARK here and to ACT on the DARK here for something that, well, again… she’s not completely “closed down” would be, from my perspective, throwing the baby out with the bath water…

In the past year we have made real progress…

No, not as much as I would want/need, but.. probably more than she thought she could do a year ago…

Again, it is a difference in “pace” and boils down to “balance”…

Thanks again.._


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

I think you guys have a communication problem.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

hopeful2112 said:


> I hope I have clarified some things…
> 
> And I will close this buy saying…
> 
> ...


Not enough time to properly respond tonight... but thank you for all of your responses.

The most important thing I want to say is that I am NOT wanting you to find DARK, but for you to confirm the absence of DARK in your situation. You can be stronger inside, and with your actions towards her if you know what's going on inside of her head and world.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> So basically OP has come here asking how to approach her about this but has shot down nearly every suggestion because he's terrified of upsetting the apple cart. Keeps more or less saying he is going to "wait it out" until she comes to him with it. Well, good luck with that!
> Even in your commentary here and what you tell us you are saying to your W, you sound very VERY passive. Are you usually so passive about everything/being so scared to upset her? If so, has it always been this way? IMO, that is a major turn off to some women. Maybe your wife would like you to stop asking her permission for everything and just taking the initiative? Honestly, if my husband came to me and said "Honey, are you okay if I bring some toys/lube into bed?" I'd be dismayed. I would much rather him surprise me with it in the heat of the moment where I still have the choice to say thanks but no thanks!



i missed this one yesterday...

interestingly... the first day that i realized these new (smaller vibrators) were in the house, i did approach her while we were in bed... she said "too tired..." i was like "...yeah, i know, so just relax..." (i started touching her... things started getting hot... and we had sex)...

so, perhaps there is a level of validity in this suggestion...

sadly, many man have had the "no means NO" idea tattoed upon their brains that it (i think) makes us want to be respectful of our wives wishes and not FORCE ourselves upon them... but may be, sometimes, that approach is wanted or even desired... 

as someone else said "we ar enot mind reader"


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Hopefull, the more I read your comments the more I agree with MyHappyPlace. I think your passive "wait and see" approach is very much like my husband's passive approach. And let me tell ya, I HATE IT!
> 
> IF, and I think it is safe to assume, your wife is going through the upsurge in her libido your sexual passivity is actually a huge turn off. I don't know what "moves" you use to initiate sex but I can tell you my own husbands "moves" to initiate are absolutely annoying! He is tentative, hesitant, as if I am going to bite his arm off. This is from a wife who doesn't get sex as often as she likes. His "moves" to initiate are nothing more than my cue to get actual foreplay started so Thats what I do. But if your wife is still dealing with the past issues, and I bet she is, she is going to NEED you to be much more direct, much more forceful, and much more aggressive.
> 
> ...


thanks for the suggestion... i seriously consider doing this.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I just wanted to add that I think you are handling things as best you can at this moment. I am also in a rebuilding phase with my husband. It is difficult. Some days there seems like much progress has been made and other days it feels back to square one.
> 
> While my situation is not a lot like yours - I sympathize with your wife in that its just so so much easier to get yourself off. It is seductive in how easy it is and how little pressure to perform. You don't have to suck in or make sure you are shaved and showered. You can be wearing stupid granny panties and nobody cares because nobody is there to care.
> 
> ...



thank you... i'm going to work through the comments that are here and politely exit for a little while...

as much as some of the comment echo things my therapist has said, some have put me in a very dark place (re: the idea that she is cheating on me)...

i'm trying to step back from it all, realizing that no of you know me or my mrs (and will bring all of these ideas, even the dark ones) up with my therapist upon his return...

i'll see what he says (if i have not had to make a dramatic move in advance of seeing him)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Paladin said:


> Absolutely no one, and I mean 100% without a shadow of a doubt, no one wants to believe that the person they love, or the person that loves them, is capable of acting in the most hurtful selfish manner possible by having an emotional or physical affair. A large part of our ability as humans to maintain pair bonded relationships comes from our ability to have, to a certain degree, blind faith in our partner. If we constantly approached our relationship from a defensive suspicious point of view, our margin for long term success would be nil. Another major component to what I am talking about is the brains ability to defend itself from harm/pain by selectively filtering out certain information from daily life.
> 
> I am really sorry that I have to jump on the infidelity bandwagon here, but the signs are too numerous to ignore. Even if she is currently not having any type of affair, the behaviors that she has exhibited, hiding, obscuring the truth, are in line with a person that is on a slippery slope and heading for serious marital trouble.
> 
> ...



I am ashamed to admit that the darkness being suggested here pushed me towards "darkness" last evening...

some of you will think what i did was unfair (probably true), but, because i'm describing how i think my wife is being unfair to me, i felt it was an acceptable (unacceptable thing) to do...

teh entire family shares a single cell phone account...

I manage that acct...

Ive never though to scan wife's phone/txt records

I did last eve...

as far as i can tell, all phone calls and txts are too family members (sisters, our kids, me).

there are only a few sporatic numbers that show up (and NONE with any amount of frequency or regularlity that makes me concerned).

I may in a few days try and ID whose numbers these are... but, they are likely household business type calls or txts/calls to co-workers at both jobs...

if i saw a number that had LOTS AND LOTS of calls/txts, yes, i'd be concerned... but, i think the # with the most txts or calls was like ~5-6 txts or calls over the last month...

does not SMACK of something sinsiter...

but... yes, i guess i need to open my eyes as much as i can (while balancing "fairness" -- though i know, having reviewed her records is CERTAINLY not in the spirit of building trust -- though some of her acts smack of the same flavor)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anubis said:


> Not enough time to properly respond tonight... but thank you for all of your responses.
> 
> The most important thing I want to say is that I am NOT wanting you to find DARK, but for you to confirm the absence of DARK in your situation. You can be stronger inside, and with your actions towards her if you know what's going on inside of her head and world.


thank you... please see a comment above re: looking at phone records (i'm in charge of that acct)...

nothing odd was found (but yes, someone could say "...she might have a burner phone..."; but that is, again, another dark idea)


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

-------------------
I've caught up on everything (though am looking forward to a response from Anubis) and have decided that, at least for right now (pending comments from Anubis), i'll let this thread "close" (it really has taken on a life of its own).

I've gotten lots of advice and will pursue them in the proper order (and with as equal focus as possible).

1) i'll remain patient for a little while longer
2) will approach re: her buying toys to share at the 3 week marke (which will be this weekend)
and
3) at the same time, think of ways that i can confirm that "absence of dark" (as put by Anubis)

posting here has given me lots of ideas/advice to help get me and the mrs on a better path, but, sadly, it has also put me (somewhat) in a dark place...

i could GO DARK (and may have too), but, being patient first, then confronting when i need to allows for the possibility that she will be opened/responsive...

going DARK now (in an offical way towards her), could remove the possibility of us productively working through these issues..

and that is my goal... to productively work through it all...

thanks


i'll post back in a week or 2
----------------------------------


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

michzz said:


> No man is a mind reader.
> 
> There are many women who post here who would get irritated at their guy for *just taking her!*


Ttally agree that no man is a mind reader. But I'm better there are a hell of a lot more women who are into forceful sex then those who are not..within the confines of a healthy bla bla bla... Women dig confident men. Nothing says confidence better then when your man grabs you, removes your clothing, tosses you on the bed, then.... 

There are several threads here in TAM that prove my point!


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Ttally agree that no man is a mind reader. But I'm better there are a hell of a lot more women who are into forceful sex then those who are not..within the confines of a healthy bla bla bla... Women dig confident men. Nothing says confidence better then when your man grabs you, removes your clothing, tosses you on the bed, then....
> 
> There are several threads here in TAM that prove my point!


*raising my hand*


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

*bouncing in my seat. "me, me, ME!"*


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm better there are a hell of a lot more women who are into forceful sex then those who are not..within the confines of a healthy bla bla bla... Women dig confident men. Nothing says confidence better then when your man grabs you, removes your clothing, tosses you on the bed, then....


Doh! It took me over 16 years to figure this little tidbit out. I can't believe I spent so many years "asking for sex" by hinting and being sensitive. When I started being more assertive and "taking her" instead of asking, it was like flipping a light switch ... make that turning on the faucet. "Force" is a bit strong of a word choice. Obviously I have to pay attention and know when she's sick or has a genuine need for "not tonight", but slipping off her panties and bra in a way that says "we're going to have sex" instead of "let's see if you're interested" made a huge difference in her enthusiasm.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

pplwatching said:


> Doh! It took me over 16 years to figure this little tidbit out. I can't believe I spent so many years "asking for sex" by hinting and being sensitive. When I started being more assertive and "taking her" instead of asking, it was like flipping a light switch ... make that turning on the faucet. "Force" is a bit strong of a word choice. Obviously I have to pay attention and know when she's sick or has a genuine need for "not tonight", but slipping off her panties and bra in a way that says "we're going to have sex" instead of "let's see if you're interested" made a huge difference in her enthusiasm.


I think many would prefer the term, "just do it"

Instead of force. But - (and I quote) in a healthy blah blah blah way, (lol, sorry) force is GOOD too. 

And most definitely, I would like to not have a man hint around, or insinuate, this, that, the other, and just pull my pants off and do it. 

I agree there's a lot of women who feel the same way.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hopefully OP has read this and this:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/118458-just-take-me.html


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Ttally agree that no man is a mind reader. But I'm better there are a hell of a lot more women who are into forceful sex then those who are not..within the confines of a healthy bla bla bla... Women dig confident men. Nothing says confidence better then when your man grabs you, removes your clothing, tosses you on the bed, then....
> 
> There are several threads here in TAM that prove my point!


I have to agree. Let her know she's sexy to you, let her know she's so damn desirable to you that you bloody can't stop yourself.

Don't ask, just do. If she REALLY doesn't want to or doesn't get turned on and get into it, she will tell you no, and then you can stop.

Be aggressive putting the heat on to let her know she is super sexy and incredibly desirable to you and you are an uncontrollable sex beast IS NOT forcing her. If you she says no, you can stop, but you aren't asking and you aren't commanding, you are just doing. Obviously make sure you tease the mood earlier in the day, do subtle things that will ramp up her desire throughout the day, then you pounce like a lion. She won't be able to resist, and if you are unable to finish her for whatever reason, grab one of her toys and make sure she finishes.

It's very important in my opinion that you each be very involved in the sexual satisfaction of each other. If sex with you is just not doing it for her and she NEEDs the toys, be the one that uses the toys on her, that way you guys can be a part of it together.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

hopeful2112 said:


> I am ashamed to admit that the darkness being suggested here pushed me towards "darkness" last evening...
> 
> some of you will think what i did was unfair (probably true), but, because i'm describing how i think my wife is being unfair to me, i felt it was an acceptable (unacceptable thing) to do...
> 
> ...


It is not a shameful act, and if you want it to be something that builds trust you will need to address it in counseling. Something to the extent of:

while in a session, you say something to the extent of

In a healthy marriage there should be no secrets between spouses, I believe in 100% transparency and openness, as those concepts help to keep a marriage on track and strong, as well as help small issue from turning into big ones. I feel that 100% transparency and openness should apply to all aspects of our marriage, so from here on out, I would like you to sit with me as I show you all of my cell, email, social media, financial etc. accounts and see if you have any questions about anything you see there. Once we are done, I would like you to do the same for me with your accounts. We can do thins once or twice per month, as it is a way to ensure nothing is being missed or ignored, and also forces some personal alone time between us. 

You can bounce this idea off of your counselor first, but I see no draw backs to this approach.

I am glad that you found nothing of significance while looking over the records. Once you get a glimpse of the finances, and verify that no apps are installed on her phone that allow for chatting without a record trail (words with friends has a chat feature that leaves no record or history, just data usage) you can pretty much put the darkness issue to bed, although I think its healthy to keep the blinders partially pulled down, or at least removed from time to time. Maybe audits like the ones I outline would have prevented the major issue you guys faced in the past?


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Paladin said:


> It is not a shameful act, and if you want it to be something that builds trust you will need to address it in counseling. Something to the extent of:
> 
> while in a session, you say something to the extent of
> 
> ...


I did not want to really reply to any other messages as i thought it best to close this one down...

however, this one (IMO) was so important, i felt i should respond...

We are working on a transpancy thing (which is something which i planned to bring up in our next session!) regarding finances (and recombining things)... so, yes... i will float this idea first past my own therapist (gets his thoughts), then, float past joint therapist (not sure privately at first or in joint session).

thank you...

early on when things were falling apart on me... i saw a family priest and he said basically the same thing... should be no secrets in a marriage (dresser drawers belong to both of you... etc...)

anyway... thanks again...

oh and MOST IMPORTANTLY... YOU ARE 100% right re: prevent original probs...

i tried soo very hard to get full accounting of household budget many times, but she would claim that thinsg were fine.... that she would have to gather things up... would put it off... would be upset if i pressed her more for the info "...you don't understand that i'm busy..."

in retrospect... my LACK of being "agressive" in that regard helped promote a situation where she was left UNCHECKED and, well, things got away from her... i was not there for her (being strong and firm in saying -- I NEED THE INFO NOW!! etc... etc...)

so... indeed, what happened she did, but i allowed a situation to exist that was unhealthy for both of us...


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