# What am I going to do??



## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

First post - not feeling too good about that (wish I didn't have to post here at all) - but here I am.

My wife and I will have been married for 9-years come August 2015.

She hit me with a thunderbolt last night: she was done with being unhappy and that she had reached the conclusion that the only thing left to do was pull the plug.

How did we get here?

We have two kids (5 and 2.5). We both work full-time jobs - and we have schedules that don't overlap that well: for instance, she works Tuesday and Thursday nights - so it's just me and the kids. She works all day on Saturday - while she is off on Monday and I am not. Long story short - we've both spent a lot of time feeling like single parents which is a lot of stress. Add to that the fact that we don't have a good support structure in regard to ever having anyone who wants to watch our kids so that we can go out and work on building our relationship. Her mom and dad live out of town and my mom and dad are always busy with my sister and her kids (she is a single mom to 3 children).

For awhile, now, my wife has been telling me that she's feeling an emotional detachment - and that she feels like she isn't getting what she needs emotionally from me. This has led her to resent me - and to let a lot of little "offenses" build into this great ball of anger. She just doesn't seem to feel like there is anything left to fix.

I thought I understood her concerns - I thought I was giving all that I could. I thought that we were just traveling through a rough time in our lives - like many people do - small kids, demanding jobs and so on - but that our foundation was strong enough that we'd get through to the other side where it could be about us again. Yes - bits of our relationship would need to suffer - but it was for the greater good and we were strong enough to surrender parts of ourselves.

When she told me all of this last night it hit hard. I truly had not realized she was that close to ending it. 

She says she cannot understand how I failed to "get it". She cannot understand how I failed to heed her warnings. I really didn't understand the gravity of it all.

I should state now that she has agreed to see a counselor with me - we go on Wednesday night for our first session. My sister and brother-in-law went through something similar about a year-and-a-half ago and they saw this counselor and thought the world of him. I figured it was better to go with someone I had at least heard good things about than simply picking a name off of a list and hoping it would be a good choice.

I just don't know what to do. I don't want to lose her. I don't want to throw myself at her feet and beg for a second chance. I don't want there to be an "I can change" kind of thing.

That said - I want her to know that I finally get it. It's gotten through to me. She again cannot understand how I haven't gotten it until now - it seems impossible to her - but I didn't. I want the chance to fight for this.

I am not the kind of man who is unwilling to face his own failings. I am introspective and sensitive - maybe too much sometimes. 

I want a chance to show her that I can be the partner she needs. It was never an issue of me choosing to not be that person - it was an issue of me not truly understanding how low she felt - and I don't think it is fair for her to simply write me off - to just assume that I had my chance to figure it out and that I chose not to. That was never the case.

I know it is a cliche - but it's true - sometimes it truly take seeing what you have to lose before you can comprehend what you need to do.

I'm looking at that loss right now - there is no escaping it. If I have any chance of all (and maybe I don't) it's right now.

I just know I love her to the very core of my soul. We've been through so much together (we lost our first child - a daughter - at birth). She has always been the one I wanted to spend my life with. I love her so much - I just pray she gives me the chance to play my hand - not to simply say I screwed up - let me change - but to let me play my hand knowing where the stakes truly lay.

I pray she gives US the chance to dig through the rubbish and find what was once there. That spark might seem dead - but give US the chance to rekindle it - relight it if need be. 

Thoughts?? Any positive words are much appreciated. I feel like I'm broken into 90 pieces right now - everything I thought has been tossed on the ground. I don't know what to do. I'm scared. I'm sad. My heart is breaking.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Okay...

NO begging...
NO pleading...
NO Whining...

You are to be calm, supportive and vested in the process, but do NOT come off as desperate, clingy or afraid.
Save that for here.

Study the 180 in case you need it.
Examine your participation and see if it is evenly distributed.

Above all else, do not poke the bear in the room.
Let the bear rest until the councilors see you. 

Fake confidence that this will all be ironed out easily and xpress that every marriage has its ups an downs and this is a down. Fake being Clark Gable if you have to, but keep the negative crap for here so we can help.


In the end, no matter how this turns out, you can and will survive this.

Post often.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

I should add that we have always been faithful to one another. there has never been a breaking of trust. She asked me last night if there was perhaps someone else who I WAS emotionally attached to (as she felt it wasn't her) and I looked her in the eye and swore to her that no - there was never anyone else - it was always her. I do feel like she has been suspicious of me - like who is he caring about if it's not me - little comments like "joking" about me talking to my girlfriend on Facebook and stuff like that. Stuff that now takes on more meaning.

Any detachment has not come about because my emotions where elsewhere - I truly feel like I was doing the best I could - giving as much of myself to her as I possibly could (while also being there for my kids, my job and so on).


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> For awhile, now, my wife has been telling me that *she's feeling an emotional detachment* - and that she feels like *she isn't getting what she needs emotionally from me.* This has led her to resent me - and to let a lot of little "offenses" build into this great ball of anger. *She just doesn't seem to feel like there is anything left to fix.*


Her "speech" reeks of having met another man.

Are you certain she is not having an affair?

Don't be in denial. Ask yourself the hard questions... When did this "detachment" begin? Are there any new males in her (your) life? Is she texting/emailing/calling any unusual numbers? Check your cellphone records.

How is your sex life since her claim of feeling like "there is nothing left to fix"???

Is she secretive? Does she hide or "protect" her phone?

Are there male coworkers who you are suspicious of?

Sorry you're here... 

P.S. If I can offer you only ONE piece of advice -- *DON'T be in DENIAL!!!!* Confront any dishonesty head-on and SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF GRIEF AND TROUBLE.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> Okay...
> 
> NO begging...
> NO pleading...
> ...


Thank you! All good stuff. I don't know if I can pull of Clark Gable - but I get the point. I definitely don't want to instigate anything until we've had time to meet with the counselor. There are things that need to be discussed - and to do so without the help of a trained facilitator would be foolish and might blow the only chance we have of making this work.

I definitely will not grovel. There will be no falling at her feet. It is my goal to project a feeling of calm. Just as I don't want to appear desperate - I don't want to become cold and angry and shut her out. I want to appear friendly and calm and open. I want her to know that if she chooses to offer anything to me - I'm here - but I'm not going to beg for it.

I will post often. 

Thanks!!


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Her "speech" reeks of having met another man.
> 
> Are you certain she is not having an affair?
> 
> ...


To be honest, no, I don't suspect there is anyone else. It's not in her character to do that. We've both been burned in earlier relationships.

She's not secretive. Her phone and iPad are always lying around. 

I don't think I'm in denial - I can be very paranoid at times - questioning every little thing - but I don't pick up that vibe right now. At least I don't think so. There are no obvious signs - no new men in our lives (that I know of).

Our sex life has not been good - this, I think - has been a big issue. I don't have an answer for why it has been bad. She's always been the kind of person who waited for me to make a move - and if I didn't make that move it didn't happen (in regards to sex and a lot of things).


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I would like to add, it takes two to get to this juncture. You state you both work. Both have odd ball hours yet you are the one that needs to make the change. What exactly has you W said in the past that you did not "heed?" I find it very odd, from you OP, that all fingers are pointing at you. Where is your W responsibility in getting to where you both are today?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Man, i'm sorry that you are in this place. I was in your place 6 months ago, but instead of 9 years of M, 5 years and one son.

Your wife resents you right now because as a female she thinks she comunicated her needs(unhappiness ) to you in many ways, she thinks she was clear and that you either didn't listen to her or didn't take her seriously. Believe me it happens, it happend to me. She probably wasn't as clear as you would expect but she DID express her concern and you did not took it into consideration. She resents that.

Don't fight with her, don't try to state your position, don't try to reason with her. You got everything to lose if you do. Listen to her, listen very carefully to what she says. Don't over do it.

She's in a "fog" right now, everything you say or do she will use it against her, she believes you took her for granted, you probably did but not enough to warrant a separation or a D.

Go to the therapist and follow his/her instructions.

Trust your gut. Do your investigation, find if she's talking to somebody else, texting anyone, any different or strange behaviour. I'm not saying she's cheating on you, but there could be an outside influence messing with her head.

For God's sakes, DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Most separations end up in divorce.

What happend to you as a couple happens to a lot of people, it happend to me. People distant themselves and forget of them as a couple and act as parents. You can get thru this.

Post as many times as you want here, People here have been/seen/Heard a lot so they can help you.

Focus on correcting whatever she complaines to you about but don't over dom it, don't be a doormat.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> I would like to add, it takes two to get to this juncture. You state you both work. Both have odd ball hours yet you are the one that needs to make the change. What exactly has you W said in the past that you did not "heed?" I find it very odd, from you OP, that all fingers are pointing at you. Where is your W responsibility in getting to where you both are today?


You are correct. the same thing happend to me W pointed all fingers at me, i was the one to blame while like you said it takes two to make or break a M. This is not all on you, your W did or didn't do enough and it got you both of you here. it's on both of you.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

Regretf said:


> Man, i'm sorry that you are in this place. I was in your place 6 months ago, but instead of 9 years of M, 5 years and one son.
> 
> Your wife resents you right now because as a female she thinks she comunicated her needs(unhappiness ) to you in many ways, she thinks she was clear and that you either didn't listen to her or didn't take her seriously. Believe me it happens, it happend to me. She probably wasn't as clear as you would expect but she DID express her concern and you did not took it into consideration. She resents that.
> 
> ...


Good stuff. I especially like your point about forgetting ourselves as a couple and just seeing us a parents.

I think you're also right about her resentment. The biggest part about her speech was my lack of involvement. She cannot understand why I didn't do anything. She communicated her concerns - her frustration over my lack of emotional involvement - and I didn't pick up on it enough to stop it before it got to the point.

I don't think she can understand how I didn't "get it" and she probably doesn't understand how I get it now.

I'd argue that she shouldn't have assumed that I truly understood how she felt. She made and acted upon a lot of assumptions about what was going on in my head - that the emotional detachment was intentional - that I was pulling away on purpose.

This was never the case. I never consciously pulled away from her. Did I get lost? Maybe. There is a lot that goes on when you work nearly 50 hours a week and have two small children.

I think she's jealous (and has said so) of the attention I give to the kids and questions why I don't give similar attention to her.

I honestly don't think she's cheating - if anything - I think she's been suspicious of me. I left my phone home last week and she went through my messages. Not sure what she was looking for - all she found was one where I mentioned catching some flak for not wanting to go to the birthday party of our friend's daughter - because I had alternate plans. Again - I didn't think this was a big deal - but she added it to her list of offenses I'd committed against her and our family.

Honestly, I don't think I've done anything to warrant a separation or a D. I've been human. I've been distracted - maybe a little oblivious at times but the one thing that has never wavered is my love for her, my desire to spend the rest of my life with her, my devotion to our kids and my commitment to our family.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> I would like to add, it takes two to get to this juncture. You state you both work. Both have odd ball hours yet you are the one that needs to make the change. What exactly has you W said in the past that you did not "heed?" I find it very odd, from you OP, that all fingers are pointing at you. Where is your W responsibility in getting to where you both are today?


Just that she was feeling emotionally detached and that she was concerned that if I didn't do something to fix it that we'd get to this point. She also has commented several times about needing more emotional support than she feels she's gotten from me.

There is some truth to this - but also many assumptions made on her part.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> Good stuff. I especially like your point about forgetting ourselves as a couple and just seeing us a parents.
> 
> I think you're also right about her resentment. The biggest part about her speech was my lack of involvement. She cannot understand why I didn't do anything. She communicated her concerns - her frustration over my lack of emotional involvement - and I didn't pick up on it enough to stop it before it got to the point.
> 
> ...


Your situation is very, very similar to mine. I also believe my W suspected of me being emotionally attached somewhere else (not a single bit of truth in that).

I believe now, that nothing makes another human being become more detached from his/her SO than believing that person doesn't care enough, doesn't love them enough and /or is not attentive to their emotional needs.

I also didn't do anything that warranted a D, but here i am. What you believe is not necessary what she believes. She got frustrated after years of Little dissapointments that rolled up into a big resentment. Nothing builds up resentment like not being taken seriously, not having their needs met, making them feeling like you don't care. I know, i know, it wasn't your intention, but we men are stupid a lot of times.

Fight the intelligent battle for your M. all is not lost yet...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> Just that she was feeling emotionally detached and that she was concerned that if I didn't do something to fix it that we'd get to this point. She also has commented several times about needing more emotional support than she feels she's gotten from me.
> 
> There is some truth to this - but also many assumptions made on her part.


You know what they say about the Word ASSUME?, You both did.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> Just that she was feeling emotionally detached and that she was concerned that if I didn't do something to fix it that we'd get to this point. She also has commented several times about needing more emotional support than she feels she's gotten from me.
> 
> There is some truth to this - but also many assumptions made on her part.


Good thing here milltown01 is you are really listening to your W. That is always a good start and practice from here on out. Explain to your W in no uncertain terms she has your complete and undivided attention. You want to sort out your the relationship. 

What emotional support is your W looking for? Has she expressed what she needed or was this one of the assumptions you mention? (My W thinks I'm a mind reader at times.) I'm guessing your W is as well. 

The best thing here sir is your W has reached out and communicated. All be it the last straw but none-the-less she communicated and should be commended.

Now, it is up to you to make it work. I understand you have a full plate. I do as well with my W and two kids. If there is a will there is a way. You have the will. Make the way.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> She says she cannot understand how I failed to "get it". She cannot understand how I failed to heed her warnings. I really didn't understand the gravity of it all.


Wild isn't it? One day you think you had the greatest marriage in the world. Then one quick, massive kick to the gut and it's over. Only to find out it was your fault. 

Want to fix problems in marriages? Have that little paragraph I quoted studied...

...and studied. And studied some more. 

In lieu of that, we need to go with people who lived it and survived to read about it on these forums for years afterwards. Me for example. What that statement means is: "I got bored in my marriage, it's your fault for making me bored. It's your fault for not reading my mind and seeing it happen. I'm gone".

And she IS gone. 180 time. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Everybody treats these as 1 million individual incidents. They're not. They are ALL THE SAME. It's a pandemic and we are doing ZERO to understand it and do something about it.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

What Macho said is the real pure truth. It happens way toonoften. We should be attentive and aware of our SO needs but no one is responsible of your happinessbbut you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

No it is not 180 time. The 180 is for a betrayed spouse to use until their wayward spouse agrees to end an affair and work on the marriage. That is not what is going on here.

milltown01's wife told him that they had grown apart, she felt that she was not getting the emotional support she needs. He ignored her.

We tell people here all the time that if their spouse blows off their concerns, that their only other option is to leave. Sometimes their spouse will finally wake up when the D word comes up.

The absolute worst thing that milltown01 could do right now is the 180. She will take it as him once again not paying attention and that she was right.. he wants out of the relationship.

I agree with 
NO begging...
NO pleading...
NO whining...

They are both at fault here. She should have spoken up louder and louder until he heard her. There are other things that she could have done. There are things that he could have done as well. 

What matters here, right now, is that milltown01 is here on TAM. He is asking for help. So the only help we can give are things for him to do. We cannot talk to her. So by default he gets the job of doing some things.

milltown01, you need to go to the counseling with her. 

I suggest that you get the books *"His Needs, Her Needs"* and *"Love Busters"* . This augments your counseling. the two of you should read those books together and do the work.

Note that the book has "His" & "Her" in the title. It's not all about her and her needs. It's about both of you meeting each others needs.

You two need to be spending time together, just the two of you, without the kids. 15 hours a week minimum. You need to find the time. Your martial relationship should be the number one focus. Your children need for the two of you to have a strong relationship. It sounds like the children were put first. That will not work.

Since you two work conflicting shifts, when you are both at home together, spending that time with each other has to be the main focus.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read Bagdon's thread

Also DayOne


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hopefully he's still on time and his W still wants to work on the M.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Regretf said:


> Hopefully he's still on time and his W still wants to work on the M.


Hopefully so.

The fact that they are still living together gives him an opportunity to turn this around. 

If they separate the chances are much slimmer. So staying in the same house is important.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

milltown01,

If talk of physical separation comes up, do not agree to move out. This is for 2 reasons. 

1) your chances of fixing your marriage go way down if you are separated. All separation is, is a way to make divorce easier.

2) if you move out it can hurt your chances of getting 50/50 custody of your children.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Good thing here milltown01 is you are really listening to your W. That is always a good start and practice from here on out. Explain to your W in no uncertain terms she has your complete and undivided attention. You want to sort out your the relationship.
> 
> What emotional support is your W looking for? Has she expressed what she needed or was this one of the assumptions you mention? (My W thinks I'm a mind reader at times.) I'm guessing your W is as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks! She's looking for a partner who she feels is her equal. She mentioned feeling like she'd become my mother - and cited examples of behaviors like not being able to manage money very well.

I think she feels like I'm not there to carry this relationship with her - that she's done it by herself for too long.

I think she feels that I cannot be that partner. I think she feels neglected emotionally and physically. I think she feels that I don't care - that I don't do the little things to try to make our relationship work. I haven't done enough to set up date nights (we talked about it a month ago and nothing came out of it - she mentioned that last night). I haven't made enough of an effort to be that supportive partner and to make matters worse I haven't been able to recognize the very real problems that were heading towards me like a freight train.

I just truly feel that there was love there - and I can't fathom where it went. I'm sad - I'm scared - I'm lost. For all of our ups and downs I thought I had a partner who would stick by me - that our relationship was strong enough to get past anything - I just cannot comprehend that something I thought was so strong never existed or disappeared and if it disappeared - can't we fight our way through this?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Breath In breath out. I was in your exact shoes. She felt like she was my mom too and that she was raising two kids also.

Ask yoirself this question. She said you habvent done much for the M. Has she? Has she proposed anything for date nights and you turned her down?

Dig deep. Theres got to be more she's not telling you or that you dont know. any strange or different habits lately onnher part?

It takes too to make a M work. Dont put yourself all thebblame. But correct what needs to be correctednonnyour part.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> No it is not 180 time. The 180 is for a betrayed spouse to use until their wayward spouse agrees to end an affair and work on the marriage. That is not what is going on here.
> 
> milltown01's wife told him that they had grown apart, she felt that she was not getting the emotional support she needs. He ignored her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for some clarity.

The thing is I heard her - she thinks I did not or that I did and I did not care enough to do something about it. I think she feels like she did everything she could to make this work - and I disagree with that. She didn't do a good enough job of making me understand. She waited for me to make a move and when I did not - she used that as confirmation that I didn't care. All I needed was a real shake-up. I swear to God that if I had truly known how far up the scale she'd gone that I would never have let it get this bad - I would have done something - but she could have done something, too. She could have said - I love him, I value this marriage enough that I'm going to do what I can to fix it - I'm going to arrange a session with a counselor or whatever - not simply say this is what needs to be done - it's up to you to fix it and your inability to react in the way I feel you need to react is just confirmation of everything I suspect.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

Regretf said:


> Breath In breath out. I was in your exact shoes. She felt like she was my mom too and that she was raising two kids also.
> 
> Ask yoirself this question. She said you habvent done much for the M. Has she? Has she proposed anything for date nights and you turned her down?
> 
> ...


It was always put on the table for me to act. She would tell me how bad she felt - how unattached - and then leave it for me to react. I just never understood how serious it was. It's one thing to be upset with someone it's another thing to be so upset you're willing to end a M. We had a discussion about setting up a date night about a month ago - and no - it never got done - but that was also brought up last night: it was a "you knew what you needed to do - but you didn't do it" kind of thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

milltown01 said:


> The thing is I heard her - she thinks I did not or that I did and I did not care enough to do something about it. I think she feels like she did everything she could to make this work - and I disagree with that. She didn't do a good enough job of making me understand. She waited for me to make a move and when I did not - she used that as confirmation that I didn't care. All I needed was a real shake-up.


Well, you have that real shake-up now. This is what she felt she had to do to get your attention. I do hope that it’s not too late. Her agreeing to go to MC is a good sign that you still have a chance to fix things.


milltown01 said:


> I swear to God that if I had truly known how far up the scale she'd gone that I would never have let it get this bad - I would have done something - but she could have done something, too. She could have said - I love him, I value this marriage enough that I'm going to do what I can to fix it - I'm going to arrange a session with a counselor or whatever - not simply say this is what needs to be done - it's up to you to fix it and your inability to react in the way I feel you need to react is just confirmation of everything I suspect.


You both have your reality. There is always his story, her story and the truth. You both could have done things differently. But you are where you are now… in the here and now. And you have to deal with that.

The fact is that we as a society do a terrible job of teaching people what has to be done to maintain a good marriage. Like you two did, people flounder. The books I suggested will teach you, and hopefully her, how to build and maintain a strong marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

milltown01 said:


> It was always put on the table for me to act. She would tell me how bad she felt - how unattached - and then leave it for me to react.


Of course she expected you to react/act. She cannot do anything to make herself more attacked to you. She cannot build the bond without you being there with her to do it. She wanted some sign from you that you actually cared. You responded by doing nothing. 



milltown01 said:


> I just never understood how serious it was. It's one thing to be upset with someone it's another thing to be so upset you're willing to end a M.


This is an important lesson to learn. I'm sorry it had to come at such a high price. When your spouse tells you that they are unhappy and need something, you pay attention and you act on it. It does not matter if what the genders of the player are. It's the same.




milltown01 said:


> We had a discussion about setting up a date night about a month ago - and no - it never got done - but that was also brought up last night: it was a "you knew what you needed to do - but you didn't do it" kind of thing.


So why didn't you do anything to set up a date?


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Of course she expected you to react/act. She cannot do anything to make herself more attacked to you. She cannot build the bond without you being there with her to do it. She wanted some sign from you that you actually cared. You responded by doing nothing.
> 
> 
> This is an important lesson to learn. I'm sorry it had to come at such a high price. When your spouse tells you that they are unhappy and need something, you pay attention and you act on it. It does not matter if what the genders of the player are. It's the same.
> ...


All fair questions.

Believe me - I am aware of my failings in this. I should have reacted in some way. I made assumptions - she made assumptions - we did not communicate.

Why didn't I set up a date night? Wish I could answer that. There were several reasons: tough finding time, not really having anyone willing to watch our kids - sick kids, us being sick - bottom line is that I should have found time to do it.

That failure is on me...but is it fair for it only to be my fault? 

I'll admit to being human - to screwing up my share. To being oblivious at times. For taking things for granted.

I cannot give a great answer for why it didn't get through. I don't want this to be about excuses - I pray this can be about healing - about rebuilding.

I pray that whatever flame there was is still alive. I'm going to do my best to sit tight and see what comes from this session. I just know that I love her so much that it hurts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

milltown01 said:


> All fair questions.
> 
> Believe me - I am aware of my failings in this. I should have reacted in some way. I made assumptions - she made assumptions - we did not communicate.
> 
> ...


I think that the point is that you are both 50% responsible for the state your marriage is in. Right now she's only seeing her own point of view. That's pretty typical at this point in time.

So it's time to stop blaming yourself and/or her. It's time to develop a plan and start working it... a plan to fix this.

I also have no doubt that this is fixable. And it's a lot easier if the two of you are living together still.

I gave you the names of some books that will help you put it back together. I hope you take advantage of them.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> No it is not 180 time. The 180 is for a betrayed spouse to use until their wayward spouse agrees to end an affair and work on the marriage. That is not what is going on here.


How is it possible that you have 20,000 posts on this forum alone and don't know what the 180 is? My wife never cheated. My situation is almost identical to the OP's. The 180 SAVED MY LIFE! And I mean that (almost) literally.

Minimum, you are wrong about the intent of the 180 being to change the behavior of ANYONE but oneself. Someone please back me up on THAT part anyhow.  20,000 posts vs. 200. Someone needs to validate me.




EleGirl said:


> The absolute worst thing that milltown01 could do right now is the 180. She will take it as him once again not paying attention and that she was right.


ANYTHING he does will either confirm she's "right" or it will be too little too late. 

Wives getting bored in a relationship then blaming it on their clueless husband is a PANDEMIC. It needs to be addressed. In the meantime, men need to know it happens and need to know how to deal with the potential end to their marriage. The 180 was MADE FOR THAT.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I read your original post again. You are me 6 years ago. Almost EXACTLY. Please do not brush off my words just because I have only 300 posts. I am you. Your wife is my wife. I lived it. I can see the tea leaves in your post. Quite clearly. Go ahead and work on things, but start preparing for the worst. Read up on the 180.

People on this board are all about affairs. How they rip your heart out. At least a cheating spouse cries and tells you how much they love you when the **** hits the fan. To them I say to try having the love of your life, your soul mate, your best friend, tell you he/she doesn't love you any more. The realizing you are alone with no one to help you. The only thing worse is when you realize it's not only really true, but it's for forever.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I agree with Macho. A cheating spouse sometimes is regretful and begs for anothrer chance. Its up to the BS to give it if he or she can. But when your SO tells you they dont love you. That its gone the love. They dont feel anything for you. The one persln you trusted your life on, it's ljke a 1000 knives going into your body at once. And worse when they tell you theres nothing eithrr you or them can do. It's done.


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## neglected42 (Aug 11, 2014)

> Wives getting bored in a relationship then blaming it on their clueless husband is a PANDEMIC. It needs to be addressed.


I don't really think the issue here is boredom. When women started working outside of the house, the dynamic of marriage totally changed. 

OP, you said your wife feels like you are one of her children. This is a common complaint I hear from many of my women friends. My one friend even commented that she did everything around the house except wipe her husbands azz. The level of disgust in her voice was telling.

Perhaps you need to start and end your day the way your wife does. She thinks about the fact that she has two kids, she thinks about all the things that need to be done to ensure they are taken care of for the day. They need clothes, to be fed three times a day, if they have homework-that needs to be dealt with, if they are in sports - that needs to be dealt with, etc, etc. She then thinks about the house. What needs to be done around there. The typical daily things need to get done, as well as the ongoing long term repairs, etc. Bills? Which ones are due, how much money should be put away, etc. She also needs to think about all the things that need to be done while at work. Once you are aware of all the daily responsibilities, you need to discuss them with your wife, step up, and deal with them, as a partner.

If this is what you have been doing, then I have no idea why your wife feels like you are one of her children instead of a life partner. 

If you have been taking on responsibilities around the house and with the kids when she tells you to, that could be contributing to the problem. If all the responsibilities are hers, meaning she has to be the one to think of them all, and she then has to tell you what to do, then she is in essence your boss. She is delegating the responsibilities to you, but you are not actually responsible for anything. She does not want to be your boss....(mom)...she wants to be your partner. (and maybe in some small, ancient, biological, instinctual way, she wants you to be her boss!)

The 180 is a good idea. Perhaps you also need to plug in. 

If I am way off here, I apologize. I just know a lot of women who are very unhappy with the mother-child relationship they have with their husband. It is a real turn off in a deep, down biological way.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the point is that you are both 50% responsible for the state your marriage is in. Right now she's only seeing her own point of view. That's pretty typical at this point in time.
> 
> So it's time to stop blaming yourself and/or her. It's time to develop a plan and start working it... a plan to fix this.
> 
> ...


"His Needs, Her Needs" has the tag line "How to Build an Affair Proof Marriage" which isn't our issue right now. Our issue is falling in love with one another again - actively working at changing the things that have gotten in the way, me becoming a better partner. We need (I think) to rebuild a bigger and better relationship.

Is this still a good book to start with?


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> "His Needs, Her Needs" has the tag line "How to Build an Affair Proof Marriage" which isn't our issue right now. Our issue is falling in love with one another again - actively working at changing the things that have gotten in the way, me becoming a better partner. We need (I think) to rebuild a bigger and better relationship.
> 
> Is this still a good book to start with?


I would actually go to 5Lovelangauges.com and print off two copies of their love langauges test. One for each of you.

Take it and see if it doesnt show you something very simple.
It's also a sure way to show her you want to actively pursue things. 
Not just talk, but action.

The best chances you have to bring this back together is to study facets of the 180 such as strength, confidence and decisiveness. 
You are not ready for a true 180...yet.

But I can tell you that right now she is thinking her way out the door. Give her a reason to pause...or at least to slow down.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

His Needs, Her Needs is about why a marriage breaks down to the point yours has and how to fall in love again and build a passionate marriag.

5languages of love is fluff in comparison. Read and work through the books I suggested first. Then if you both want s bit more read 5 languages of love.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> But I can tell you that right now she is thinking her way out the door. Give her a reason to pause...or at least to slow down.


Yes. By all means prolong the agony.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> His Needs, Her Needs is about why a marriage breaks down to the point yours has and how to fall in love again and build a passionate marriag.
> 
> 5languages of love is fluff in comparison. Read and work through the books I suggested first. Then if you both want s bit more read 5 languages of love.


Very true that it's fluff in comparison, but when a patient is bleeding out, you dont prep the table for a long delicate process.
You slap a bandage on it and some compression.

She needs something tangible and he doesnt have the time to read the book and start practicing the lessons.

It's simple triage.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

I've heard some good stuff - thank you!

We have our first counseling session in a few hours - nervous as hell. I know she isn't going into this with the same open mind that I am.

I keep thinking that it not that I didn't hear her - it's that I didn't hear her in the way she wanted me to hear her.

Is that - in itself - reason enough to scrap a M and breakup a family?

I think there are two kinds of disconnects: there is hearing and not truly understanding and then there is hearing, understanding and making a conscious decision to not fix the problem - mostly because you don't care about your partner anymore.

What committed partner would purposely walk away from a relationship if they truly still cared about their partner?

I still love her with every part of my mind, body and soul. That has never been in question.

I wish I could somehow get that through to her - that my "disconnect" had nothing to do with a loss of interest or a chosen path of detachment. It had nothing to do with moving my emotions to someone else.

There was not malice - no intent to hurt her or neglect her. I may have lost course - I may be guilty of not hearing her like she needs to be heard - but I am not guilty of pulling away with the intent of destroying my M because at the end of the day I still love her as much as I did when we said our vows.

I just pray we can fix this. I don't want to live my life without her - never have.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Stating that you love her won't get you where you want to go.

Read Bagdon whose thread title is "She said with a man I don't love". He got his wife back.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

DayOne can also help


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

milltown01 said:


> I've heard some good stuff - thank you!
> 
> We have our first counseling session in a few hours - nervous as hell. I know she isn't going into this with the same open mind that I am.
> 
> ...


If you want to fix your marriage, you will need to accept that her feelings are what they are. And for her, she has lost enough connection to you and felt that there is nothing left. You have to accept her reality because that is what you have to start with.



milltown01 said:


> I think there are two kinds of disconnects: there is hearing and not truly understanding and then there is hearing, understanding and making a conscious decision to not fix the problem - mostly because you don't care about your partner anymore.


The problem is that actions are what count. For example she asked you to set up a date. She asked you this because she desperately wanted to spend time with you and re-connect with you. She want you to put the effort into the date to show her that you actually wanted to spend some time with her. You agreed to do it. But then you blew it off. Actions speak much louder than words. Your action says that you did not want to spend one-on-one time with her. That is the message that YOU sent to her.

When was the last time you and your wife spend time together, just the two of you doing something that you both enjoy?

How many hours a week do you two regularly spend doing together, just the two of you?



milltown01 said:


> What committed partner would purposely walk away from a relationship if they truly still cared about their partner?


One who believes that their partner does not care about them.



milltown01 said:


> I still love her with every part of my mind, body and soul. That has never been in question.
> 
> I wish I could somehow get that through to her - that my "disconnect" had nothing to do with a loss of interest or a chosen path of detachment. It had nothing to do with moving my emotions to someone else.
> 
> ...



I hope that you can fix it too. Did you get the books?


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> If you want to fix your marriage, you will need to accept that her feelings are what they are. And for her, she has lost enough connection to you and felt that there is nothing left. You have to accept her reality because that is what you have to start with.


Agreed. First session went not so good. There is a wide gulf between where she is and where I am. She was not hopeful that this could be fixed - BUT - she has agreed to go to another session next week. She is dubious that I can change in the way she wants me to change because I've said it before - tried briefly - and then lapsed back into old habits.



EleGirl said:


> The problem is that actions are what count. For example she asked you to set up a date. She asked you this because she desperately wanted to spend time with you and re-connect with you. She want you to put the effort into the date to show her that you actually wanted to spend some time with her. You agreed to do it. But then you blew it off. Actions speak much louder than words. Your action says that you did not want to spend one-on-one time with her. That is the message that YOU sent to her.


I take ownership of this. I became good at thinking and saying but then not following through - generally for no good reason.



EleGirl said:


> When was the last time you and your wife spend time together, just the two of you doing something that you both enjoy?
> 
> How many hours a week do you two regularly spend doing together, just the two of you?


It's been a long time. How many hours? Not enough - we work off-setting schedules - but I know she was looking for even 15-20 minutes each not to talk about what is going on in our lives - and not just about the kids. I know she was looking for a brief - but serious connection - on a more regular basis.



EleGirl said:


> One who believes that their partner does not care about them.


Fair enough.



EleGirl said:


> I hope that you can fix it too. Did you get the books?


I am going to pick them up from the library today. One thing that has been a big stress has been finances - chiefly me spending too much on little things that add up. I know how important these books could be - but even so - I think it would have more impact if I picked them up from library.

Again - the first session was rough. Granted - a lot of the session was taken up with introductory stuff - and the question of why we were there was only touched upon in an introductory fashion.

She is carrying a lot of anger and resentment towards me. She does not feel she can trust in the fact that I "finally get it" because she's heard it before. She feels she's gotten to the point where she is done and she doesn't know if anything ever will repair the damage that has been done.

She has agreed to go back next week. 

The counselor told me that the bulk of the work right now is on me. If I am true in my word then I need to show her by my actions. This is in itself tough when you know the other person doesn't feel the same way towards you. I cannot simply schedule a date night because I know she doesn't want to be with me in that way.

I cannot press her for answers or guarantees. I don't know how much good it is to keep bringing up the past and pleading that she was wrong in her assumptions about how I acted. That bell has been rung.

I guess I think if I want to have any shot of saving a M that at this point is pretty much on life support I have to spend my time in the present.

Anyway, thoughts on how to present the books into our life? I don't know if she's open to reading them together right now? A lot of resentment and anger towards me. 

I suppose it helps that we are still living together - even if it is more like being roommates and co-parents than anything else.

Thanks!


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Stating that you love her won't get you where you want to go.
> 
> Read Bagdon whose thread title is "She said with a man I don't love". He got his wife back.


I don't think she wants to hear that - anyway. She has a lot of anger and resentment towards me right now. She said everything I do - from the way I eat to the sound of my voice - drives her crazy right now and makes her angry.

I think at this point it's more about actions than words.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is something else for you to read. 

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

If you cannot find the books at the library, used ones are available via amazon. you might even be able to find pdfs of them online.

I'll answer your posts more in depth after work tonight.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> I don't think she wants to hear that - anyway. She has a lot of anger and resentment towards me right now. She said everything I do - from the way I eat to the sound of my voice - drives her crazy right now and makes her angry.
> 
> I think at this point it's more about actions than words.


Jeez, your story sounds very familiar to mine. To where i was 6 months ago. be patient, constanst with actions, don't pressure your wife, Don't expect anything from her at this point. Whatever you need to change change it, do it for you. 

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Marriages are harder to work on while separated i know from experience.

Pray to God to show you the way.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

milltown01 said:


> When she told me all of this last night it hit hard. I truly had not realized she was that close to ending it.
> 
> I am not the kind of man who is unwilling to face his own failings. I am introspective and sensitive


You're not nearly as introspective and sensitive as you think you were. Your wife was bailing, probably for years and you totally missed it. Google "walkaway wife" and read up on it. There's lots of useful stuff there.



EleGirl said:


> The 180 is for a betrayed spouse to use until their wayward spouse agrees to end an affair and work on the marriage.


You speak about the 180 as if it's some sort of manipulative tool designed to get a wayward spouse to end an affair. 

It's not. It's a modification in behavior and attitude designed to set the betrayed spouse on a new course, one of independence, in the direction of a new life, away from the cheating partner.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

Regretf said:


> Jeez, your story sounds very familiar to mine. To where i was 6 months ago. be patient, constanst with actions, don't pressure your wife, Don't expect anything from her at this point. Whatever you need to change change it, do it for you.
> 
> DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Marriages are harder to work on while separated i know from experience.
> 
> Pray to God to show you the way.


Some good stuff, man. Thanks for the advice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The 180 is for a betrayed spouse to use until their wayward spouse agrees to end an affair and work on the marriage.





lenzi said:


> You speak about the 180 as if it's some sort of manipulative tool designed to get a wayward spouse to end an affair.
> 
> It's not. It's a modification in behavior and attitude designed to set the betrayed spouse on a new course, one of independence, in the direction of a new life, away from the cheating partner.


It’s both. There is nothing manipulative if a BS pulls back in a way that protects himself/herself when an affair is in process or the BS intends to end the marriage. 

For a BS, the road ahead is a forked road. Either the affair will end or not. And either the couple will go into reconciliation or not. 

Some BS’s will want to end their marriage. And yes the 180 will help them move ways from their WS more quickly and heal more quickly.

Not all BS’s have the goal of ending their marriage. Many are hoping to reconcile. Reconciliation can even start until the WS ends the affair and goes no contact. But before this, the BS does not know which way this is going to go, so the 180 helps them keep their sanity and get stronger. 

If the WS never gives up the affair, then the BS continues the 180 until they are healed and well into a new direction in life. 

If the WS does give up the affair and agrees to reconciliation, then the BS cannot continue the 180 for betrayed spouses. A couple cannot reconcile if one or both of them are basically not communicating on a deep level. 

Michelle Weiner Davis from Divorce Busting is the author of the 180 linked in my signature block. It’s the 180 for a BS. 

In DB the 180 is a concept, not a fixed list. It’s customized for each person’s situation. The 180 followed by a person who spouse is cheating is very different from a 180 that a person who is dealing with what milltown01 might want to follow. He’d have to customize it for his situation. The idea of a 180 is to do exactly the opposite of what your spouse would expect. So for miltown, pulling away from her is exactly what she thinks he’s been doing for years. If he did that, he’s only proving that she’s right that he does not care about her. He needs new habits and new ways of interacting with his wife.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi OP,

From your posts, it sounds like there is no current infidelity. All bets are off if there is an OM somewhere. It's a different game plan.

Like the other posters, I see some hope for you. Do NOT leave the house. 

You're getting great advice- Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs (and actually following the plan provided) can go a LONG way.

I am posting though to make an additional recommendation based on something I see in several of your posts. You seem to understand now why your wife is upset- I've bold the reasons you list in your post below:



milltown01 said:


> Thanks! * She's looking for a partner who she feels is her equal. She mentioned feeling like she'd become my mother - and cited examples of behaviors like not being able to manage money very well.
> 
> I think she feels like I'm not there to carry this relationship with her - that she's done it by herself for too long.*
> 
> I think she feels that I cannot be that partner. *I think she feels neglected emotionally and physically.* I think she feels that I don't care - that I don't do the little things to try to make our relationship work. I haven't done enough to set up date nights (we talked about it a month ago and nothing came out of it - she mentioned that last night). I haven't made enough of an effort to be that supportive partner and to make matters worse *I haven't been able to recognize the very real problems that were heading towards me like a freight train.*


So your wife wants a partner; someone who will recognize the issues and proactively work to fix them. She doesn't think that that you are able to be that person.

You've given her some solid justification to believe that, yes? She can't believe that you don't understand what is going on, because she thinks she was loud and clear. You even say that she has been talking to you for some time now about this. *You just didn't realize that it had gotten so bad. If you had realized it, you would have done something differently, right? *

Well- here's the thing. When someone says "I didn't realize how serious you were" that means that you didn't take their words seriously. 

I am not trying to put you down. I've actually had the same experience, when my husband and I first got married. He told me specifically how he was going to resolve a problem. We had a sick kitten and he was frustrated. He told me a few times, "I've had it, I am going to shoot the cat and put him out of his and our misery!!" I heard his words, but what he said was so far off from what I thought was a normal reaction to the situation as I understood it, that I was completely gobsmacked when he actually did it. Yes, our cat was sick, but it was the family pet. The cat threw up, we cleaned it up, took him to the vet, were trying out different foods, etc. In my mind this is something that happens with cats. I wasn't miserable, I was just working through it.

My DH though WAS miserable. I had no comprehension that the issue was angering my DH so much that he would actually go resolve it in the way he did. But I came home one day and the cat was gone. My husband was upset, actually a little green and said immediately that it was a mistake, he would never do that again, but that the cat had not suffered and didn't even know it was coming. 

When I reacted with shock, he was gobsmacked. "Rose- I told you exactly what I was going to do!" And he had! He had told how and why. It just went in one ear and out the other.

So I've been there. I learned something VERY important. That is to take my husband seriously and to question if I'm not certain about what he is saying. He was far more angry about the situation than I realized. I won't make that mistake again. 

If you truly recognize now that your wife needs something more from you, and you want the chance to give it, please stop all this:



milltown01 said:


> I'd argue that she shouldn't have assumed that I truly understood how she felt. She made and acted upon a lot of assumptions about what was going on in my head - that the emotional detachment was intentional - that I was pulling away on purpose...
> 
> I think there are two kinds of disconnects: there is hearing and not truly understanding and then there is hearing, understanding and making a conscious decision to not fix the problem - mostly because you don't care about your partner anymore...
> 
> I keep thinking that it not that I didn't hear her - it's that I didn't hear her in the way she wanted me to hear her...


What are you arguing and going on about? Of course you didn't hear what she wanted you to hear- that is the problem. YOU didn't take her seriously. YOU didn't press for more information. She was telling you that she was falling out, things were going south, she needed you to step up.

It is not her fault that you didn't hear it. In fact, you DID hear it. It just didn't register. That is on you. Now that you have had a tune up, you will likely take her complaints much more seriously- just like I do with my husband. You and I both got a wake-up call. (I am not trying to be glib in my comparison- it's just that my wake up call came in Year 1 of my marriage with a smaller issue; yours has come much later and the consequences are much bigger.)

Also, your intention doesn't really matter. If you give a rose the same manner of care that you would a cactus- which is to say, admire its beauty but only water it monthly because that is how you best care for a cactus- that rose will die from lack of water. All your love and great intentions for a lovely bloom won't prevent that. 

You were trying to give your wife love but she needs it in a different form, hence the recommendations for His Needs, Her Needs and the 5 Love Languages. She needs more time, attention, more help, and she needs it a lot more often. 

Read up (those books are amazing!) and start "watering". Stop blaming her for not telling you that she is a figurative rose. You didn't know then, you do now and you can adjust accordingly.

And please try to drop this line of thought as well:



> Is that - in itself - reason enough to scrap a M and breakup a family?
> 
> What committed partner would purposely walk away from a relationship if they truly still cared about their partner?
> 
> I still love her with every part of my mind, body and soul. That has never been in question.


I think the message from your wife is VERY clear: YES- for her, this IS enough to break up a family and that is exactly what is on the table.

So for you to ask it is either 
A. to remain in denial of the obvious and thus prove her point that you are not able to see a problem and certainly then can't solve a problem you don't see....
B. or you are implying that she just doesn't love you enough, not like you love her. Which is actually true, she is falling out of love with you. Go back to Point A.

This is a pretty harsh post- but actually overall I think there is a lot of promise. You and your wife seem to have a solid foundation- a lot of years, a family, no long history of fighting or addictions- something worth working on, and she is still there with you, you are living together, and she is willing to go to counseling. These are all big positives.

I wanted to post mostly because you seem stuck on this point that you didn't mean to hurt her and you don't deserve this treatment. Well, you didn't mean to hurt but you still haven't been able to get her what she needs in the marriage. You can focus on being wronged by her complaints or you can focus on fixing the issue. The latter says you are willing to put in the work and the former says that your comfort is more important than her needs. Choose wisely. This a critical factor for your wife- it is a stellar example of what she is trying to show you. She needs more care, her needs are not being met. Can she trust you to meet her needs?

A wise man once said: Complaints are considered helpful information in a good marriage; in a bad marriage they are dismissed as nagging. 

I do think you should snoop a bit to make sure that there isn't another guy somewhere, but even so, you will make yourself a better partner if you focus on making the improvements recommended in your reading list.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

milltown01 said:


> "His Needs, Her Needs" has the tag line "How to Build an Affair Proof Marriage" which isn't our issue right now. Our issue is falling in love with one another again - actively working at changing the things that have gotten in the way, me becoming a better partner. We need (I think) to rebuild a bigger and better relationship.
> 
> Is this still a good book to start with?


The book talks about the needs of both genders and you probably got to this place because as a man you only see her needs through your own eyes. Women have totally different needs from men. Men's needs are probably less nuanced and because women usually want relationship they provide the man's needs. Men are often not so into 'relationship' but are into providing, etc. that is the way they show they care but that is not how the wife views it. I would recommend most definitely that you try to understand where your wife is coming from first before you do anything else. This book will help you do that.


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## milltown01 (Mar 2, 2015)

I've come to a couple of realizations - maybe my true epiphany:

When I talk about the past - when I bring up things like "I didn't hear you" or "I didn't understand you" that is not a good thing. It marginalizes her hurt. 

Her hurt is real - built up from years of neglect on my part - whether it was intentional or not - she truly feels it.

To keep bringing it up - pleading that I didn't get it - is saying it's not fair for her to be mad at me because I made an honest mistake.

I may have made an honest mistake - or should I say mistakes - but that doesn't matter. As they say, that bell has been rung.

It's time for me to understand her pain. To acknowledge her hurt. For this to move forward in a positive manner - it has to be about her - it has to be about me following through.

Words are largely meaningless. Actions speak volumes.

She does not trust me because she has heard it before. She has heard me say I'll do what needs to be done - and I may follow-through for a short while - but I've never followed through all the way. I need to follow through all the way - every single time.

If we are to tackle this - it's like climbing Everest - you don't climb straight from the bottom. You build base camp after base camp until you're ready for the summit.

Right now - I'm trying to fight my way towards that first base camp - which is through my actions I can hopefully show her a glimmer of hope - just enough of a glimmer that she thinks maybe this can be fixed.

It won't be through grand gestures - it will be through small things: small moments where I show I'm listening, small moments where I display small acts of thoughtfulness - moments where I help her shoulder the mundane tasks of life - like getting up earlier than normal to get the kids dressed and fed - even on morning when she doesn't work - or something as simple as putting gas in her car.

It will be through making myself "present" at all times. When we're together as a family I must be there. 110% of my attention needs to be in the present.

I need to let her know she's appreciated - even cherished - even if right now she is not open to any romantic approach - just a passing comment - like how was your day - and then I need to listen 110%. 

It needs to stop being about me. It needs to stop being about how I didn't "do anything wrong" or about how I'm simply being "misunderstood". This has to be about her.

I have to get her to notice that I'm trying (which she has acknowledged) and I need her to think to herself "he's done it one week" and then "he's done it for two weeks" and then "wow, he's done it for three weeks" and it has to build and build.

Finally, if I do get a second chance - and God - I'm praying to you that I do - I cannot EVER revert to old habits because I will not get a third chance.

I feel confident in what I need to do if I'm going to make this work - yes - I also feel a bit bi-polar - with moments where I feel very up - like "yeah, we've got this - we're going to make this work" and then really down with thoughts like "this is already done and over - she's made up her mind already".

It's a tough ride - but I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to push on when I'm worn out - when I feel like I cannot do it - because I cannot slip. I cannot revert to how things were even one time right now. If she says something - I need to listen 110%.

I continue to appreciate the positive thoughts and definitely the prayers. I'm a deeply spiritual person and I truly believe God has a hand in this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miltown.. you have come a long way in a short time. Being present, as you say, is what is needed in marriage.

One thing to remember in all of this is that you need to take care of yourself as well. While you say that the focus has to be on her. Well it has to be on your marriage/relationship. To have a healthy marriage/relationship, you have to take care of yourself as well. I hope you are doing that.


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