# Introducing Myself



## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Hello,

I am introducing myself per the sign up instructions.

I am mainly on this site because I found it informative leafing through the forums. I also joined because some things in a marriage are best talked about anonymously with people that don't know either party in the marriage.

I am married (so far) for 12 years and we have three children under the age of twelve. Our marriage has been less than happy for at least the last 5 years (from my perspective, maybe longer from hers). In that time neither of us had the insight to try and sit down with the other and try and talk or figure things out. Seems like that might have been helpful early on. My main complaint is the lack of sex for 4, going on 5 years...that is complete lack of sex between my wife and myself in that time.

Recently, at the beginning of 2019, I discovered my wife cheating on me. According to her it had been going on only about two or three months...seemingly the start of it was non-memorable enough that she can't pin down the timeframe as to it's starting one or two months before it was discovered. Frankly, I mostly don't care when or how long other than my general need for precision. Assuming she is not lying (no comments necessary on the acronym of 'assume') this is the only affair and by that time in the marriage an affair is almost a formality.

The odd thing is that our situation isn't that bad. We are both genial people whom others like and would be shocked to discover aren't experiencing marital bliss, many seem to see ours as an example of a wonderful marriage. She is impatient and can be committed to getting her own way. I tend to have a northern sense of an argument not involving the raising of voices but rather outright yelling and I tend to have less filter than many people in the South appreciate. We married when she was early thirties and I early forties. After child three she seems to have made the unilateral decision that was enough. Being practicing Catholics that means relying on NFP, which does work but requires work to ensure it does work. She never did and never tried to do that work. I took a while to fully realize/accept that her decision to have no more children was a decision to stop all sex without explanation, pity or attempt to mitigate by trying to stick to the NFP routine. She had been baptized Catholic and fully joined while we were dating. I never pressured her and was somewhat surprised when she brought up going through the process of becoming Catholic. She knew I was committed to not using artificial birth control in our marriage and at one point said that she liked not having to be on the pill because it messed with her body. Of course all this was when she wanted to be married and have children.

So at this point we are sort of in a hold pattern where we are working on being more courteous with one another and periodically cuddling and being closer, although she has zero current intent of sexual activity with me. I also should say that after learning of the affair I did some soul searching and realized that I had never fully allowed myself to be 'in love' with her, likewise she had never allowed herself to 'fall in love' with me...we both 'loved' one another, in part because neither demanded of the other to be fully let in to that walled off part of the other's heart.
Earlier in life I came to the conclusion that one actually makes a conscious decision to fall in love, to allow the walls to come down (just as one consciously keeps the walls in place to protect themselves). After the affair came to my attention I took several days to figure out if I was actually in love with her. The fact that I had to do that is telling of our relationship. I finally decided that yes, I think I do love her. From there I decided, partly because I had little to lose, that I would let myself fall in love with her. Stupid, yes; but in a way necessary.
That decision, rather than weakening me and putting me in a position of haplessly filling her needs and empowering her to run the show has had an immense internal effect on me. I have little doubt that she thinks herself in charge and happily avoiding any retribution for her behavior. However, her behavior is her own and the consequences of it are and will be mostly internal. Maybe she will proceed blindly on and uncaringly indulge her whims and fantasies...at least as long as age and physical capability allow. Maybe she will come to realize that there is not 'need' behind my staying and caring. Who knows and to some extent who cares? The decision has provided me immense internal joy (not necessarily happiness). I am a person who has often said it is hate which keeps you strong. Love may be patient and kind but it can't provide the kind of white hot rage that will get you up off the ground when everything in you says to stay down...but...anger is a tiring burden after a long enough portion of life. Somewhere she is holding a grudge, one doesn't stay married and forgo sex for 4 or 5 years with the person they married and have children with without there being some level of maintained anger or hate. I have not yet forgiven her those 4+ years but I will come to that point. The affair lingers but I have mostly forgiven, other than if I dwell on the attitude she puts out there of not seeing it as in any way personal towards me.

I guess my main reason for coming here is to try and get some insight into what makes a woman, particularly a mother of younger children, have an affair and incur the risks to those children. I may end up becoming glad I came here because I figure out other things too but that's my main reason right now.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You facade your fake face to your wife while your body contains blazing white hot resentment.

You display weakness to your wife in regard to infidelity yet rage internally.

You are far from ok.....very very far.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Not sure what you mean. Am I at all angry or resentful inside? Of course, it's natural who wouldn't be...if I let emotion rule me.

At the same time I'm an adult so I choose not to let emotion rule me. There's a difference. Recognizing things doesn't make them go away, neither does divorce or separation. I choose my thoughts and actions and as time goes on those choices become easier because each choice leads in only one of two directions, destruction or repair. My marriage needs repair but requires two to do that. I can only control one of those two. I have been down the path of self destruction in the past; part of why she and I are where we are today is the fruits of past behavioral patterns. Drowning myself in vengeance, anger and evening the score was the first, most attractive option until I stopped letting emotion rule me.

No part of life is easy. I'm healthy, I'm fit and active, I don't look my age or move my age. I have three kids, I didn't have them before I married her; I choose to view that as an unalterable objective good. Twelve years of marriage didn't go bad overnight, nor will it's effects change overnight. I can accept that. There is an endgame. Maybe there is divorce, maybe reconciliation. I hope for reconciliation but actually expect divorce. The endgame remains the same and not pursuing that sure as hell doesn't up the odds of a good outcome for the marriage or the kids; so I don't see a downside. Is it momentarily exhausting at times or infuriating? Yeah, I'm not a robot those will flare up but so what?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

lack of sex for 4, going on 5 years...that is complete lack of sex between my wife and myself in that time.

Recently, at the beginning of 2019, I discovered my wife cheating on me. According to her it had been going on only about two or three months...



Read your post above and think about it a bit.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> lack of sex for 4, going on 5 years...that is complete lack of sex between my wife and myself in that time.
> 
> Recently, at the beginning of 2019, I discovered my wife cheating on me. According to her it had been going on only about two or three months...
> 
> ...


Hahaha!
I WROTE my post. I have thought about it. I live it.

I took vows. I intended those vows to be serious, they are. Till death, better/worse, sickness/health. Didn't say anything about number of years, didn't guarantee bliss or even happiness. I didn't take them in my 20's or even my 30's. I didn't take them with my eyes closed or without seeing friend's marriages fall apart.

I didn't take any vows with my kids, does anyone? Do people on here advise others to disown children, leave them, etc...because with the kids there were never any vows. So why is it imaginable to bail on the one and only lifelong promise I willingly made? It was never a bilateral agreement of if/then or as long as you...then I will.

She chooses to view that in a less serious way. I'm sorry for her. Shall I sink to her level? Will that make me feel better? Will that help our children have better lives? We don't have open warfare, we're cordial. The kids are starting to notice that mom doesn't really find time for them except when they fit into her plans or time frame...I guess she's winning huh? I played soccer today, at 54 years old. She outweighs me by 50 pounds, that must feel wonderful huh? I wish I could shake her and wake her up but she chooses to sleep. I know I can go out and get laid on any given day. I know I can allow an emotional relationship to develop with one or more of the moms at the kid's school or any of a number of other places. I know guilt is a tool meant to bump us back onto the right path. I know conscience can be buried...for a while. Why would I want to go to any of those places? Why would I want to drag anyone to one of those places with me?

She slept with a married guy; I'm sure she feels wonderful about that. I know she didn't get married with the intent of doing that or having the endgame she seems intent on achieving. I'm not getting dragged down by all of it anymore. My reaction to the affair was a wake up call thank God. I have a lot of work I can do on myself. Being involved with her doesn't pull me away from that. If anything it reminds me that working on myself is a lifelong challenge and that the biggest effect I can have on anyone else is simply being as good as I can be. My 'limits' are my strength. Her life is chaos precisely because she made a choice to abandon her limits and continues to avoid thinking about reimposing them. It's not being a doormat anymore, not doing things to avoid arguing or resentment or doing things to spur an argument or poke her resentment. In her story she had the affair because she's unhappy (in some vague way) and because I'm 'always angry' (gee, we see each other in the morning as I'm dragging the kids out of bed to go to school and when she gets home form work and I've dealt with the kid's pent up energy after school and am doing my favorite activity - cooking!). So my 'always angry' is those two most stressful points in the day. That's what she chooses to focus on, not the fact that she doesn't have to stay home with the kids (which she has always openly admitted would drive her nuts) or the loneliness of before marriage, etc. The more I'm stepping away from my own resentments with her and my own issues with the marriage the happier I am and the more I see where she is really at. She seems mired down in her resentment and unhappiness which if she's honest have really very little to do with me and much more to do with her own expectations.

She's doing very well at work, however they painted a picture for her and supposedly had bright plans for her to glide to upper management. I have done what a good spouse does to help her career, including three moves all with kids 2 or under. I began to resent that after I found out about the affair (and there's no excuse for an affair) because I thought we were a team...a dysfunctional team to be sure, but a team. The odd thing is that as those promises haven't panned out at work (though she makes very good money and gets good raises and bonuses) her resentment toward me has grown. That grew even greater resentment in me at first and I stoked it well for a while...the thing is resentment did me no good. She still resents me for it, probably also the kids. So I could say I'm done. I have tried shouting at her what the real issue is but since she has seen the solution to everything as putting more into work there is no other answer in her mind. So the thing that has really caused the feelings of resentment is seen as the key to solving the resentment. Hmmm...

...and after a time I go back to the wedding vows; sickness and health. Is it a mental illness? No, not really but in a way it resembles one. So she's sick. That's not an excuse, because she's also refusing to help herself. But it is sickness. It is also frustrating because I do not know what to do to ease the symptoms, which at bottom is a specific type of pain. Now, if she were physically ill and I could do nothing...a sort of chronic but not terminal illness or pain...would it be acceptable to divorce her or walk away? Would people be advising that this isn't what I signed on for so cut my losses and go? Doubtful.
If you don't think it's a sickness you need to look around. Why are so many marriages falling apart? Why are so many people deeply unhappy yet surrounded by so much of what they think they want? How do you walk away from that when it's what you see in the person you married? There are reasons I didn't get married until I was in my 40's and they're almost exclusively centered around my needs so I lived that and then I continued it to a lesser degree into my marriage and it worked out pretty much as should be expected. So I'm happy to be trying something different; I've cut losses before.

I'm not a huge CS Lewis fan, I like him OK but he does have a good observation and here it is:

“There is no safe investment. To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket – safe, dark, motionless, airless – it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.”


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hi. Due to the fact that your wife cheated on you I have moved your thread to Coping With Infidelity.

Please get yourself tested for STDs.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your name is an anagram of “pathless”.
Is this intentional?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

If she is a "practising Catholic", did she and married man not use protection ?

And, I cannot understand your advanced social psychology and philosophy but your wife has denied you sex for about 5 years (that's just unnatural) and has been sleeping with a married man for God knows how long and you try and rationalise your very passive behaviour towards it ????

You really need to up your self esteem, and dump her - get a lawyer, protect yourself and file for divorce! Now, before its too late.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

manfromlamancha said:


> If she is a "practising Catholic", did she and married man not use protection ?
> 
> And, I cannot understand your advanced social psychology and philosophy but your wife has denied you sex for about 5 years (that's just unnatural) and has been sleeping with a married man for God knows how long and you try and rationalise your very passive behaviour towards it ????
> 
> You really need to up your self esteem, and dump her - get a lawyer, protect yourself and file for divorce! Now, before its too late.


It's easy to understand ...... You can butter it all over a turd ..... but your still left with a turd.

People build protection mechanisms that set up the walls to block the hurtful truth. Assigning physiologic reason is one of them.

He's here for a reason ...... he wants confirmation of what he knows but refuses to believe. His marriage is a turd.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She doesn't respect you and she will continue to have affairs.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Your posts are very thoughtful. 

Unlike you, I am quite a fan of CS Lewis, especially the Screwtape Letters, and what they have to say about marriage and relationships. May I make a few comments, in which I will try to answer the question you asked. 



hptessla said:


> The odd thing is that our situation isn't that bad.


Outwardly, I think you mean. Emotionally, it was terrible. 



> I tend to have a northern sense of an argument not involving the raising of voices but rather outright yelling and I tend to have less filter than many people in the South appreciate.


And I guess she knew that when she married you. I'm wondering if that attracted her to you.



> I also should say that after learning of the affair I did some soul searching and realized that I had never fully allowed myself to be 'in love' with her, likewise she had never allowed herself to 'fall in love' with me...we both 'loved' one another, in part because neither demanded of the other to be fully let in to that walled off part of the other's heart.


Yes. I guess this is the contract you implicitly made with each other. Not to even ask to be let in to the heart?

So what has happened? Have you both grown and come to want more?



> I am a person who has often said it is hate which keeps you strong. Love may be patient and kind but it can't provide the kind of white hot rage that will get you up off the ground when everything in you says to stay down...but...anger is a tiring burden after a long enough portion of life.


Indeed. I view it as being only for emergencies, not day-to-day fuel. 



> Somewhere she is holding a grudge, one doesn't stay married and forgo sex for 4 or 5 years with the person they married and have children with without there being some level of maintained anger or hate.


 I don't know. Could it not just be disconnection? Rather than anger or hate?



hptessla said:


> At the same time I'm an adult so I choose not to let emotion rule me.


That is wise. But it a good thing at least to be aware of the emotions, before deciding what to do with them. Like the thing you said above about love. 



> My marriage needs repair but requires two to do that. I can only control one of those two.


Sometimes one of the two can make changes first, and that sets off changes in the system as a whole. In fact, nearly always one of the two has to start it. 

I know I may get stick from the forum for saying this, but one way of seeing her affair may even be as an attempt to destabilise the marriage system, and allow necessary changes to happen, one way or another. 



hptessla said:


> The kids are starting to notice that mom doesn't really find time for them except when they fit into her plans or time frame...I guess she's winning huh? I played soccer today, at 54 years old. She outweighs me by 50 pounds, that must feel wonderful huh?


Indeed not. She must be very unhappy. 



> I have a lot of work I can do on myself. Being involved with her doesn't pull me away from that. If anything it reminds me that working on myself is a lifelong challenge and that the biggest effect I can have on anyone else is simply being as good as I can be.


Exactly! This is the important point. 



> She seems mired down in her resentment and unhappiness which if she's honest have really very little to do with me and much more to do with her own expectations.


Yes



> In her story she had the affair because ... I'm 'always angry'


I think you should believe her on that. I mean, believe that that's how it is for her. 
You pretty much say (if I read you right) that you pretty angry at that time, and whether it spilled out in behaviour or not, you were probably radiating it, rumbling with it. 

Her story, I guess, would be that she is sick with resentment because there is no emotional connection in the marriage; only anger. And so that leaves nothing, except work and more work. It's a strange role reversal: often it's the man who does this. And you are the one who is in the kitchen cooking when she gets home. 



> I guess my main reason for coming here is to try and get some insight into what makes a woman, particularly a mother of younger children, have an affair and incur the risks to those children.


I think you already have a lot of that insight. I would believe her when she says it was your unexpressed anger. That doesn't justify it at all.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

4-5 years of abstaining from sex in a M. what are you, a monk? 
that long period of abstinence is a red flag. she obviously is having sex. 
i think you only know a small part of the real story.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Catholic churches offer marriage counselling, I think?


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks for moving this to the correct forum. I am not the one in need of STD testing. If the day comes where my wife and I are possibly sexual again I will ensure she gets herself tested. I did bring it up to her, but she is sure that he doesn't have anything and they used condoms...I mean, he's married right - I'm sure he's never done anything like this before!


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

rugswept said:


> 4-5 years of abstaining from sex in a M. what are you, a monk?
> that long period of abstinence is a red flag. she obviously is having sex.
> i think you only know a small part of the real story.


I'm sure I only know a small part of the whole story. My deal with cheating is that until I have something strong to go on I don't obsess about it. The day I know is the day I make a decision. I came to know of her affair through her own stupidity (shocking, I know). My initial decision, if carried out, would have been quite dramatic and scarring for her and the children (as it involved waking them, driving to the hotel and arraying them around the main lobby to await mom's departure at 7AM while I smiled in triumph...photos all around of course for social media and her mother in particular.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Ask any woman on this entire forum if they think your approach to this is a good plan to regain marital bliss with your wife .........


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

hptessla said:


> I'm sure I only know a small part of the whole story. My deal with cheating is that until I have something strong to go on I don't obsess about it. The day I know is the day I make a decision. I came to know of her affair through her own stupidity (shocking, I know). My initial decision, if carried out, would have been quite dramatic and scarring for her and the children (as it involved waking them, driving to the hotel and arraying them around the main lobby to await mom's departure at 7AM while I smiled in triumph...photos all around of course for social media and her mother in particular.



You need more help than this forum can provide. You have a darkness forming from the inside out.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Does she use NFP with the affair partner?

Does she still go to Mass? Participate in communion? Confession?

I have never seen a person so committed to NPF yet enthusiastically hold onto sin.

Would you say you are 'in love' with your wife now?

Does your wife blame you for the cheating? Does she try to explain it to you at all?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I don't think you are going to find many people here who are going to help you be OK with an unrepentant cheating wife. Because it is not OK. If you are not going to take some sort of action, you are basically giving her a stamp of approval. You may think that you are strong because you are just living with it, but this is not strong. You are setting a horrible example for your children, and you are allowing their mother to neglect them. Talk about God all you want, but he is not pleased with those things. You need to take a stand and have some boundaries. And if that means she chooses to walk away from the marriage, which she already has by the way, then you need to do something about it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I don't think you are going to find many people here who are going to help you be OK with an unrepentant cheating wife. Because it is not OK. If you are not going to take some sort of action, you are basically giving her a stamp of approval. You may think that you are strong because you are just living with it, but this is not strong. You are setting a horrible example for your children, and you are allowing their mother to neglect them. Talk about God all you want, but he is not pleased with those things. You need to take a stand and have some boundaries. And if that means she chooses to walk away from the marriage, which she already has by the way, then you need to do something about it.



I agree with what you say but I think this is something else entirely.

I've seen it in the uncle of my wife.

It's her power he hates, but it remains concealed.

He's dangerous ..... even if he doesn't know it yet.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

she is not having sex with you because she is still saving it for the other guy...she can only have sex with one person and you are not it. expose expose expose


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

hptessla said:


> Thanks for moving this to the correct forum. I am not the one in need of STD testing. If the day comes where my wife and I are possibly sexual again I will ensure she gets herself tested. I did bring it up to her, but she is sure that he doesn't have anything and they used condoms...I mean, he's married right - I'm sure he's never done anything like this before!


You seem pretty jovial. for someone who hasn't gotten laid in 5 years, only to find out your wife is out banging up a storm. Its not that she doesn't want sex, just not with you.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

This almost seems completely made up.
As a practicing Catholic myself and divorced (from the advice of my priest).
You need to read "The Rational Male" 
Get your head on straight before you blow up.
You are not married in the eyes of the church.
She has divorced you religiously.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

hptessla said:


> Hahaha!
> I WROTE my post. I have thought about it. I live it.
> 
> I took vows. I intended those vows to be serious, they are. Till death, better/worse, sickness/health. Didn't say anything about number of years, didn't guarantee bliss or even happiness. I didn't take them in my 20's or even my 30's. I didn't take them with my eyes closed or without seeing friend's marriages fall apart.


Did your vows say anything about ADULTERY!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Ah yes, the rollover puppy dog approach. Wife kicked me in the guts but if I run up and roll over she'll pity me and maybe pat me on the head and if I'm a really good puppy dog maybe even a belly rub.

You're gonna do the analysis to paralysis approach because deep down You are living in fear and are terrified of actually having to do something so You'd rather wallow in infidelity.

Your own words are to make yourself feel better about being a doormat. Self congratulatory so you can take the cowardly way out of doing nothing. Which in these situations is the worst thing you can do.

Don't think for a second no one sees through your bull****.

If you want to get out of this with your best interest get strong, stay there and take control of your end. Anyone can.

Fear is a liar that will keep you bound.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You give excuse after excuse as to why you are there, but what it boils down to is that you are WEAK. What you are doing is not an example of strength, it is sheer weakness, and it sets a terrible example of marriage for your kids. Maybe your marriage would not have been sexless all these years if you would have released your death grip on your religion and allowed use of some damn birth control. Your wife was perfectly within her right to decide she did not want to bear more children, and YOU should have supported that and done what you could to make sure no more came along. I cant stand it when people blindly follow religion to their own detriment. What happens is where you find yourself now. I am not excusing her affair, she should have ended the marriage instead. I have zero doubt she used some kind of birth control with her affair partner. 

You should be enacting consequences for what she has done, not cuddling on the couch with her, kissing her ass. She is going to keep doing this because you are allowing it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Does she make the majority of (or all of) the money?


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

You haven't had sex with your wife for 4-5 years. I'd be willing to bet that the affair has been going on that long, and she's not having sex with you because she would be cheating on her affair partner. Think about that and wake the hell up.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hp,
We are all conflicted at times. Every person I know is sometimes conflicted regarding the choice between punishment and forgiveness. That internal conflict can however, be very toxic to ourselves and our family. 

Your post below, is however the single most conflicted I have ever read on TAM. That is not a good thing. For instance, I’m guessing that your wife finds the practice of NFP at odds with the idea of you shouting at her when you two argue. And she likely sees you shouting at her as an attempt to intimidate. You are bigger and stronger yes? And surely you shared your fondness for vengeful, angry and or hateful feelings. Perhaps you have injured those who angered you in the past? 

This devout, Catholic theme doesn’t align well with the idea of traumatizing your children by taking them to Mommy’s affair hotel. Just the idea itself, is completely at odds with the whole NFP thing. 

So maybe your wife feels that this self righteous use of NFP is inconsistent with the rest of your behavioral package. 

And most women aren’t keen on double talk. Aren’t keen at all. You say: I’m joyous but not happy. I’m amiable but I shout when we disagree. I’m devout but also extremely vengeful. This is not a humorous set of inconsistencies. Nor a lovable one. 

This last bit - I hesitated long and hard before typing - but here goes. Do you really think that your wife practiced NFP with her lover? Seriously? 






hptessla said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am introducing myself per the sign up instructions.
> 
> ...


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

It's not, but that's pretty funny...too complicated to be subliminal either.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

So how did she avoid getting pregnant with her boyfriend?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We are not supposed to blame the betrayed spouse on TAM, BS, that's you.

Yet, how in the hell were you expecting a woman in her prime to be, to remain celibate?
Chubby, or not.

Apparently, you can. 

Ninety percent of other men and women in your age bracket cannot.

And should NOT be expected to.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

*"To have and to hold, to love and to cherish, forsaking all others,"* She does not honor her vows.

Did you stay for the children? I would not have stayed after 4 to 5 months of denial as it is indicative of disrespect and hatefulness that was purposeful. If you want your marriage to be loving in all that entails, make her defecate or get off the commode. She has certainly shown that she is capable of coitus, just not with you.

You seem cerebral, and proud of it. You wish to save your marriage, you better make her believe that you are willing to do it.

1.* File. *Nothing like being served papers to make a hypothetical situation into a reality. Have her served for alienation of affection. If she becomes remorseful you can stop the process. Otherwise, get on with it and find someone who will love you.

2. *DNA test your children.* I don't care if they are the spitting image of you. Sets a tone.

3. *180 technique.* Follow religiously: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/affairrecoveryforum/the-180-t10616.html

4. *Demand a timeline of her affair. *If it seems fishy, check it with a polygraph.

5. *Get yourself into IC* and find out why you are willing to stand by for this.

5. *You need to decide* whether you are going to stand by for this treatment & continue on in a loveless, sexless marriage, or will you show strength & courage? You came here to discuss your situation.* The best answer for you is to get off the pot yourself and take action.*


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

GoldenR said:


> So how did she avoid getting pregnant with her boyfriend?


He'd mentioned that they'd used condoms. He did not mention why it was suddenly OK for birth control when it wasn't OK previously.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

hptessla said:


> It's not, but that's pretty funny...too complicated to be subliminal either.


This feels like an incredibly abusive relationship. Abusive even in allowing your wife to carry on without repercussion. She might even feel invisible. Doing things to get a reaction that never comes. "What's it going to take?" 

You should consider stopping the intellectualization of what's going on and fully grasp the emotional issues and consequences. You are two real people, both playing a game with consequences, but it seems that neither of you has ever discussed that. 

Whether you move on with your lives separately or try to reconcile, a little bit of each of you is destroyed every day you wait. And likely your kids too. Don't let an endless thread here fuel you in some way. You need to take action of some sort. Because if you don't, if this goes on forever, some day you will break. Maybe you're hoping she breaks first? Don't play that game. Try and fix things now, or leave. Your present situation defines toxic.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Some of your posts are confusing me from the religious basis.
I’m not a Catholic, so I will ask you directly.

What is the churches stance on Adultery? Also the churches stance on divorce after adultery? Is it different than what the Bible says about it?

What is your churches stance on withholding sex from your spouse?

Is using birth control (I’m assuming a passage from Genesis this is based on) more serious of a sin than adultery in Catholicism? Or are all sins equal...cursing is as bad as adultery kinda thing?

It seems very clear that she doesn’t want you as her husband, and hasn’t for years. I kind of doubt God expects you to stay.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

I dont know what you see in her. She is cheating on you and wants nothing to do with you. Let her go and get on with life.

*"I tend to have a northern sense of an argument not involving the raising of voices but rather outright yelling and I tend to have less filter than many people in the South appreciate. "*


You know we really love it when Yankees move south and bring all those good northern ideas and culture with them. We like that alot. We really do. Seriously. You will make alot of friends with that. /Sarcasm off/


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

Maybe she stopped having sex with you because she doesn't want to get pregnant again and you want to follow the concept of let nature take care of birth control. Ever hear of a vasectomy? Doesn't need drugs. Just a little snip of a small tube and voila, birth control without drugs. I don't condone her cheating but I would be willing to bet she used some method of birth control with the AP. She had sex without the fear of making a baby. The concept that birth control is only the responsibility of the female is pure bull****. Taking the chance of getting a woman pregnant because you are horny and want to follow an antiquated concept of not using birth control doesn't seem feasible. Some men don't think about birth control because they don't have to go through the nine months process of giving birth. Maybe this is where some of that resentment, you say she has toward you, comes from. From what you have posted, I don't think you and your wife communicate with each other very well. Being married for 12 years, you should know what isn't working so try something different. I do wish you well.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Thus whole thing is being confused by the Catholic/religion thing! It is pretty straightforward and is not that hard to understand in my opinion.

She felt like screwing somebody else and she did. No boundaries, no reservations, nothing. She has openly said that they used condoms which is why she doesn't think she contracted any STIs. NFP doesn't come into this.

Now lets focus on these points too:

She has not had sex with you for 5 years - that is almost half of your married life together. So the first 7 years you had sex and made three (young) children. Then nothing ????

Its clearly not that she doesn't like or want sex - so what was she doing for the last 5 years to have her needs met (and she does have needs, clearly). There is more to what she has been doing than just sleeping with this POSOM early this year. This may well be the tip of the iceberg. And this may not be the only OM. You discovered this one - she didn't tell you on her own, which surely must make you wonder if there were others.

Then this business of NFP and using it to withhold sex because she didn't want any more children - she has no qualms about using condoms as you have found out. So are you saying if she said lets use a condom and have wild monkey sex, you would have said no ? Or shamed her for being a bad Catholic ? Really ?

In any case she has been getting her needs met elsewhere and you happened to discover the latest one.

This is what you have to address:



Her lack of morals and boundaries.


Her hypocrisy in saying she is a practising Catholic and then sleeping with another man (pretty sure this is not in the Catholic handbook - take this from one who almost made it into a seminary).


Her putting any of the blame for cheating on you.


Your acceptance of this.


Your attempting to rug sweep the issues.


Getting to the real truth (either by stealth or poly or both). Do not allow any gaslighting or trickle truthing.


What you do next after you have got as much as you can truth wise.


Your recovery of your self worth and preparation to exit this "marriage" if necessary.


Focus on establishing the truth, boundaries and next steps.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evidently WE are all more concerned with her cheating than OP is.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

hptessla said:


> Thanks for moving this to the correct forum. I am not the one in need of STD testing. If the day comes where my wife and I are possibly sexual again I will ensure she gets herself tested. I did bring it up to her, but she is sure that he doesn't have anything and they used condoms...I mean, he's married right - I'm sure he's never done anything like this before!


*What concrete proof do you have that your wife's married paramour and his wife don't both have "cooties?"

Respect yourself and get on the safe side and have yourself checked out for the presence of STD's immediately! 

This is far from being a simple game of probability!*


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

hptessla said:


> I guess my main reason for coming here is to try and get some insight into what makes a woman, particularly a mother of younger children, have an affair and incur the risks to those children. I may end up becoming glad I came here because I figure out other things too but that's my main reason right now.


What reasons does your wife give for her affair?

If course, cheaters lie. Even so it would be helpful to know how she explains it.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *What concrete proof do you have that your wife's married paramour and his wife don't both have "cooties?"
> 
> Respect yourself and get on the safe side and have yourself checked out for the presence of STD's immediately!
> 
> This is far from being a simple game of probability!*


I’m pretty sure he is safe because he hasn’t had sex with his wife in years.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Also she has already told him that they used condoms.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

hptessla said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am introducing myself per the sign up instructions.
> 
> ...


As to WHY -- because she is selfish, immature, and has a moral screw loose (she is NOT following the Catholic religion by cheating). She wanted to an didn't care or think about you or her kids while banging the other guy.

She needs to do the work to earn the "love" you've found all of a sudden -- or she WILL do it again. YOU need to work on getting your self respect back.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> *As to WHY -- because she is selfish, immature, and has a moral screw loose (she is NOT following the Catholic religion by cheating). She wanted to an didn't care or think about you or her kids while banging the other guy.
> 
> She needs to do the work to earn the "love" you've found all of a sudden -- or she WILL do it again. YOU need to work on getting your self respect back.*


*This!*


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

hptessla said:


> I am married (so far) for 12 years and we have three children under the age of twelve. Our marriage has been less than happy for at least the last 5 years (from my perspective, maybe longer from hers). In that time neither of us had the insight to try and sit down with the other and try and talk or figure things out. Seems like that might have been helpful early on. My main complaint is the lack of sex for 4, going on 5 years...that is complete lack of sex between my wife and myself in that time.
> 
> Recently, at the beginning of 2019, I discovered my wife cheating on me. According to her it had been going on only about two or three months...seemingly the start of it was non-memorable enough that she can't pin down the timeframe as to it's starting one or two months before it was discovered. Frankly, I mostly don't care when or how long other than my general need for precision. Assuming she is not lying (no comments necessary on the acronym of 'assume') this is the only affair and by that time in the marriage an affair is almost a formality.


Like many others have suggested, I don't believe that the affair only lasted a couple of months. Probably lasted longer and is not the only one.

Doesn't sound like she is even attempting to be honest about it and you don't seem to care. I think, despite your claim otherwise, that you don't really love her. 

So, do you care to continue in a loveless "marriage"? 
And I put marriage in quotes because you aren't really in a conventional or Catholic marriage any more. It is an open marriage on her side. 



hptessla said:


> The odd thing is that our situation isn't that bad. We are both genial people whom others like and would be shocked to discover aren't experiencing marital bliss, many seem to see ours as an example of a wonderful marriage. She is impatient and can be committed to getting her own way. I tend to have a northern sense of an argument not involving the raising of voices but rather outright yelling and I tend to have less filter than many people in the South appreciate. We married when she was early thirties and I early forties. After child three she seems to have made the unilateral decision that was enough. Being practicing Catholics that means relying on NFP, which does work but requires work to ensure it does work. She never did and never tried to do that work. I took a while to fully realize/accept that her decision to have no more children was a decision to stop all sex without explanation, pity or attempt to mitigate by trying to stick to the NFP routine. She had been baptized Catholic and fully joined while we were dating. I never pressured her and was somewhat surprised when she brought up going through the process of becoming Catholic. She knew I was committed to not using artificial birth control in our marriage and at one point said that she liked not having to be on the pill because it messed with her body. Of course all this was when she wanted to be married and have children.


You were committed to not using birth control, huh? That surely backfired on you because she went and ****ed someone else who would use birth control.

As for her general demeanor...from your description she is angry, domineering, FAT, selfish, a hypocrit, a bad mom and a liar. Not much positive to write home about here. 



hptessla said:


> So at this point we are sort of in a hold pattern where we are working on being more courteous with one another and periodically cuddling and being closer, although she has zero current intent of sexual activity with me. I also should say that after learning of the affair I did some soul searching and realized that I had never fully allowed myself to be 'in love' with her, likewise she had never allowed herself to 'fall in love' with me...we both 'loved' one another, in part because neither demanded of the other to be fully let in to that walled off part of the other's heart.
> Earlier in life I came to the conclusion that one actually makes a conscious decision to fall in love, to allow the walls to come down (just as one consciously keeps the walls in place to protect themselves). After the affair came to my attention I took several days to figure out if I was actually in love with her. The fact that I had to do that is telling of our relationship. I finally decided that yes, I think I do love her. From there I decided, partly because I had little to lose, that I would let myself fall in love with her. Stupid, yes; but in a way necessary.


You are fooling yourself. I don't think you love her. And, to be quite candid, I don't think there is much to love about her. "Allowing" yourself to love her at this point is indeed stupid, and no, it is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY! 

Now...figuring out your own issues and problems with intimacy is most definitely a worthy endeavor, but trying to do that with a selfish and unrepentant adulteress is a waste of your time and a recipe for disaster. 

It reminds me of Theon Greyjoy, the GOT character who doesn't mind getting repeatedly kicked in the crotch because he has no balls.



hptessla said:


> That decision, rather than weakening me and putting me in a position of haplessly filling her needs and empowering her to run the show has had an immense internal effect on me. I have little doubt that she thinks herself in charge and happily avoiding any retribution for her behavior. However, her behavior is her own and the consequences of it are and will be mostly internal. Maybe she will proceed blindly on and uncaringly indulge her whims and fantasies...at least as long as age and physical capability allow. Maybe she will come to realize that there is not 'need' behind my staying and caring. Who knows and to some extent who cares? The decision has provided me immense internal joy (not necessarily happiness). I am a person who has often said it is hate which keeps you strong. Love may be patient and kind but it can't provide the kind of white hot rage that will get you up off the ground when everything in you says to stay down...but...anger is a tiring burden after a long enough portion of life. Somewhere she is holding a grudge, one doesn't stay married and forgo sex for 4 or 5 years with the person they married and have children with without there being some level of maintained anger or hate. I have not yet forgiven her those 4+ years but I will come to that point. The affair lingers but I have mostly forgiven, other than if I dwell on the attitude she puts out there of not seeing it as in any way personal towards me.


Cue up the Theon Greyjoy images again.

For your own benefit, go ahead and forgive her...but divorce the slag. She has earned that. 



hptessla said:


> I guess my main reason for coming here is to try and get some insight into what makes a woman, particularly a mother of younger children, have an affair and incur the risks to those children. I may end up becoming glad I came here because I figure out other things too but that's my main reason right now.


Newsflash here...she did not care a whit about the kids. She isn't engaged with them and actively avoids them. And is probably cheating on you still.

This is a woman who really isn't marriage, wife or mom material. 

Let her be who she is without you. Get your **** together, get some counseling, fix yourself and find someone else to love when you are ready. 

This woman isn't good for you or your kids.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

hptessla said:


> It's not, but that's pretty funny...too complicated to be subliminal either.


Sorry you are here OP but you have a lot of work to do on you

1. Get counselling to work they your own issues
2. Have you actually discussed kids, birth control etc with your wife? If not you cannot expect to have continuing marital relations based on unreliable birth control, your wife has a right to not have more kids, this should all have been discussed not assumed
3. Sounds like you married her for to have a family and kids, you say you didn’t really love her? On what basis did you get married?
4. You cannot ignore your wife’s affair, there has to be consequences. Sounds like your wife craves love, attention, sex and instead of seeking it from you, going elsewhere
5. Your faith appears to be a stumbling block in your marriage and I don’t see anywhere in the bible that says that it must be

You and she need to talk being open and honest. You must take the lead as the head of your household. You haven’t been leading for a long time.


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