# Found an old picture of my wife and her ex boyfriend in her sock drawer



## loblawbobblog

We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course 

Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


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## ThatDarnGuy!

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


Unless she is still in contact with him, I don't see the big deal..... I have pictures and letters from exes. The wife knows about them and doesn't care. To me, they are just memories of the life I have lived so far.


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## *Deidre*

It could be nothing or it could be everything. Hard to say.  If you feel she’s not being truthful about it, that’s more of an issue than the pic itself.


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## TexasMom1216

It's kind of odd and her explanation is lame. I wouldn't freak out too much, you guys have been fine for 30 years. If it continues to bug you, talk to her more about it, but I bet it was just a weird thing she did and has zero significance. 

Why were you in her sock drawer? (Were you putting laundry away? Cause if you were that is HOT. My husband has no idea where my socks go.)


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## Captain Obvious

It’s not a big deal…until it is. The picture got there somehow and for some reason. You’ve been together with your wife for 30 yrs, you know her better than anybody. Has she been acting squirrelly or weird recently, any behavior that seems odd or out of the norm?


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## Openminded

Having run across it, she didn’t want to lose it again. Why she chose her sock drawer to put it in, only she knows the answer.


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## 346745

It's no biggie. We all have our memories. Unless she has rekindled the old flame, I think you have nothing to worry about.


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## loblawbobblog

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Unless she is still in contact with him, I don't see the big deal..... I have pictures and letters from exes. The wife knows about them and doesn't care. To me, they are just memories of the life I have lived so far.


Are those pictures and letters within easy reach in your bedroom? Have you separated them out from your box of mementos?


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## loblawbobblog

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kind of odd and her explanation is lame. I wouldn't freak out too much, you guys have been fine for 30 years. If it continues to bug you, talk to her more about it, but I bet it was just a weird thing she did and has zero significance.
> 
> Why were you in her sock drawer? (Were you putting laundry away? Cause if you were that is HOT. My husband has no idea where my socks go.)


I was indeed putting laundry away!


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## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> I was indeed putting laundry away!


 That's awesome. If you're the kind of husband who also puts HER laundry away and not just your own, I wouldn't worry about some old picture.


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## 346745

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's awesome. If you're the kind of husband who also puts HER laundry away and not just your own, I wouldn't worry about some old picture.


we nominate him for Hubby of the Year.


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## GusPolinski

Could be nothing.

But just in case, maybe have a look at the phone bill(s). 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## ThatDarnGuy!

I find some of these answers that are hinting at something suspicious to be hilarious 😂. Come on folks, the picture is at least 30 years old! We are talking about pre 1992. It's probably a washed out polaroid of a guy with a mullet in his rust bucket Camaro, and heading to the Metallica concert while drinking a Busch light beer 🤣

I think I am going to dig out some of my ex girlfriends pictures and lay them on the end table tonight to watch the wife's reaction 😂.


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## *Deidre*

As I think on this more, it’s possible she carried the box of pics into the bedroom or whatever and it fell out and got missed being placed back into the box. It’s not that far-fetched, really.


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## BigDaddyNY

I've had issues with retroactive jealousy, so anything like that I've asked my wife to get rid of. Plus her breakup with her ex was on far from good terms, so she really has no interest in keeping them to reminisce. I may not be the best person to give advice in this case, but here goes, lol. 

Few questions. 
Has she had any contact with that ex since you have been together?
What broke them up?
What did she do with the picture when you asked her about it?
Have you ever had any reason to not trust your wife?
Are you both an open book to each other? As in phone access, etc.?

These answers may help get better advice. Odds are, this is absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Also, if your wife's sock drawer is anything like my wife's a pic in the bottom of it is far from easy to reach, lol.


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## Diana7

It's not the photo that is the issue but that she lied about how it got there. It's a shame she couldn't just be honest.


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## Diana7

*Deidre* said:


> As I think on this more, it’s possible she carried the box of pics into the bedroom or whatever and it fell out and got missed being placed back into the box. It’s not that far-fetched, really.


So how did it end up in her drawer?


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## *Deidre*

Diana7 said:


> So how did it end up in her drawer?


She put it there I guess, maybe just tossing it in because she brought the box back to wherever and that pic was laying out. That part I don’t know. Lol

Like if she spilled the box of pics out and rummaged through it to find some pics for IG, this pic stayed out by mistake.


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## Evinrude58

Was it under the vibrator that was also hidden in the sock drawer? Just asking…..
Sock drawers are places that dark secrets lay snuggled among soft socks for safekeeping. Things don’t wind up in the so I drawer accidentally.


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## happyhusband0005

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


I know a lot of women who keep old pictures with old friends and boyfriends, because they like to remember how they looked when they were young.


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## 346745

Evinrude58 said:


> Was it under the vibrator that was also hidden in the sock drawer? Just asking…..
> Sock drawers are places that dark secrets lay snuggled among soft socks for safekeeping. Things don’t wind up in the so I drawer accidentally.


i checked. nothing incriminating was found, lol


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## SunCMars

On this old photo...

Were the edges dog-eared, like well-used playing cards?

Were there any dried teardrops, or smudged lipstick on the photo?

I would see if it remains in that drawer, or gets moved.

Place it, a certain way and see if it gets plucked free and handled. Do this placing every time it gets moved. If so, you will have your answer!


Nemesis-


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## Diana7

happyhusband0005 said:


> I know a lot of women who keep old pictures with old friends and boyfriends, because they like to remember how they looked when they were young.


But why lie about why it's there?


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## manwithnoname

Diana7 said:


> But why lie about why it's there?


Because he wouldn’t like the answer?


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## 346745

We have a winner.


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## SunCMars

Jealousy and insecurity is as old as Adam and Eve.

No one likes to lose what they value the most.

Those who care the most, fear the most.


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## ConanHub

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


Well, she's not being totally honest with you.

This might not be a big deal but she should work out her feelings with you about this.


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## TexasMom1216

We can speculate all day and come up with all sorts of wild stories about decades-long affairs, sock drawer romances, and how socks are clearly not naturally monogamous because one sock always disappears. If the OP's spidey senses are tingling, he needs to talk to her. Confront her about the picture, tell her it bothers him and get the real story. They've been together long enough, he should be able to tell if she's lying because something is up or if she put the box of pictures away and then found this one on the floor and stuck it in the nearest drawer because she didn't want to put it back in the box right then and forgot about it. We cannot know. Only the socks know the truth. Until the OP asks his wife and gets the truth. But until then, it's only the socks, and they have enough inter-sock drama without getting pulled into human drama.


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## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's awesome. If you're the kind of husband who also puts HER laundry away and not just your own, I wouldn't worry about some old picture.


I take it as your personal sincere feeling about.
But said by a man who also did what he does and by also looking arround I would say that the proportion of good caring men (and women) in the cheated ones total is far (far, far, far) over the average.


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## re16

The photo likely isn't that big of an issue, but she knows exactly why it was in the drawer, and is lying to you about not knowing how it got there.

I would focus on her lying about it.

Everyone has fond memories of early times in their lives, and its ok that a spouse has a positive memory of that period, but lying about it does nothing positive.


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## happyhusband0005

Diana7 said:


> But why lie about why it's there?


Who knows, maybe she likes to look at it to remember the days she was young and carefree and she was afraid the OP wouldn't like that. Maybe she wasn't lying at all and it did fall out and she tossed it in there because she didn't feel like bringing it back to where ever the old pictures were. The amount of random stuff I find in drawers after my wife has been "cleaning" is wild.


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## TexasMom1216

ElOtro said:


> I take it as your personal sincere feeling about.
> But said by a man who also did what he does and by also looking arround I would say that the proportion of good caring men (and women) in the cheated ones total is far (far, far, far) over the average.


Nice people usually do lose in life. It’s unfortunate, we see it all the time.


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## 346745

happyhusband0005 said:


> Who knows, maybe she likes to look at it to remember the days she was young and carefree and she was afraid the OP wouldn't like that. Maybe she wasn't lying at all and it did fall out and she tossed it in there because she didn't feel like bringing it back to where ever the old pictures were. The amount of random stuff I find in drawers after my wife has been "cleaning" is wild.


Good post


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## Diana7

manwithnoname said:


> Because he wouldn’t like the answer?


In that case it shouldn't be there.


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## 346745

Diana7 said:


> In that case it shouldn't be there.


But it is.


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## ConanHub

Longtime Hubby said:


> But it is.


I happen to agree with her and am curious about your take on this.

My wife would have some serious splanin to do.

I'm neither insecure nor jealous but I am extremely territorial.

OP's wife needs to deal with her husband and his nature.

She didn't choose to marry someone else.


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## ConanHub

happyhusband0005 said:


> Who knows, maybe she likes to look at it to remember the days she was young and carefree and she was afraid the OP wouldn't like that. Maybe she wasn't lying at all and it did fall out and she tossed it in there because she didn't feel like bringing it back to where ever the old pictures were. The amount of random stuff I find in drawers after my wife has been "cleaning" is wild.


Yeah but OP's wife didn't choose to marry you, or me for that matter.

I'm really very easy going but extremely territorial when it comes to sex and mating. I'm not jealous at all or insecure but my wife knows who she married and doesn't come close to tempting fate.


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## SunCMars

TexasMom1216 said:


> We can speculate all day and come up with all sorts of wild stories about decades-long affairs, sock drawer romances, and how socks are clearly not naturally monogamous because one sock always disappears. If the OP's spidey senses are tingling, he needs to talk to her. Confront her about the picture, tell her it bothers him and get the real story. They've been together long enough, he should be able to tell if she's lying because something is up or if she put the box of pictures away and then found this one on the floor and stuck it in the nearest drawer because she didn't want to put it back in the box right then and forgot about it. We cannot know. Only the socks know the truth. Until the OP asks his wife and gets the truth. But until then, it's only the socks, and they have enough inter-sock drama without getting pulled into human drama.


What about those missing sock puppets?

I know about Sock Puppets..

@EleGirl taught me well about them.
Ask her about @ulyssesheart.


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## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> Nice people usually do lose in life. It’s unfortunate, we see it all the time.


Yup


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## TexasMom1216

SunCMars said:


> What about those missing sock puppets?
> 
> I know about Sock Puppets..
> 
> @EleGirl taught me well about them.
> Ask her about @ulyssesheart.


That is what we used to do with the abandoned mates of runaway socks at my house. Make puppets out of them. Everything is better with googly eyes. Alas, my boy has outgrown that and a grown woman making sock puppets by herself is silly. 🥺


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## A18S37K14H18

happyhusband0005 said:


> Maybe she wasn't lying at all



You're right, maybe she wasn't lying...

But, maybe she WAS lying... 

Neither you, nor I, know whether she was lying or not.

OP needs to find out though.


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## happyhusband0005

A18S37K14H18 said:


> You're right, maybe she wasn't lying...
> 
> But, maybe she WAS lying...
> 
> Neither you, nor I, know whether she was lying or not.
> 
> OP needs to find out though.


Agreed, the OP knows her so there must be a reason he believes she was not telling the truth about why it was there. Maybe she typically lies about things that are silly to lie about to avoid confrontation.


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## jsmart

We always tell posters to trust their guy if they’re sensing something is up or you’re being lied to. You know her better than we do. This situation and her response bothered you enough for you to research for a forum like TAM and pose your questions. 

There’s some really understanding open minded people posting on this thread and I guess I must be an insecure, controlling dinosaur of a husband because I would NOT be ok with my wife of 32 years 35 together and mother of my 4 kids having a pic of some old boyfriend. I definitely would not have a pic of an old girlfriend. Am I in the minority? Possibly, but that wouldn’t sway me to change my opinion that a wife of many decades should NOT have any pics of someone from their past. Especially not hidden in her sock draw. Like @Evinrude58 joked, was this picture next to her vibrator?


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## loblawbobblog

jsmart said:


> We always tell posters to trust their guy if they’re sensing something is up or you’re being lied to. You know her better than we do. This situation and her response bothered you enough for you to research for a forum like TAM and pose your questions.
> 
> There’s some really understanding open minded people posting on this thread and I guess I must be an insecure, controlling dinosaur of a husband because I would NOT be ok with my wife of 32 years 35 together and mother of my 4 kids having a pic of some old boyfriend. I definitely would not have a pic of an old girlfriend. Am I in the minority? Possibly, but that wouldn’t sway me to change my opinion that a wife of many decades should NOT have any pics of someone from their past. Especially not hidden in her sock draw. Like @Evinrude58 joked, was this picture next to her vibrator?


Thank you!


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## loblawbobblog

So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.

I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


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## Sfort

From what I'm seeing, the problem is not the picture as much as it is the lack of candor on her part. What if she said, "I was thinking back to the good old days. I wonder what he's doing now? No, I don't want to be with him, but he was the most important person in my life at one point." How would you react? That may be what she was thinking.


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## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


It would warrant at talk. Hidden in the shock drawer seems to imply some significance to her that is current. I would also check the phone and her social media.


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## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.
> 
> I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


I would find him on social media and see if your wife is connected to him in anyway, like on there liking his posts and stuff.


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## Wiseowl

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


I have a picture of me an an ex in my sock drawer and I couldn’t stand the guy. I do like the dress I was wearing in the picture. It’s not a big deal in my thinking.


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## loblawbobblog

Sfort said:


> From what I'm seeing, the problem is not the picture as much as it is the lack of candor on her part. What if she said, "I was thinking back to the good old days. I wonder what he's doing now? No, I don't want to be with him, but he was the most important person in my life at one point." How would you react? That may be what she was thinking.


I would be totally fine with that, but instead she got evasive. I don't think she's in contact with him, he doesn't have a social media presence or any kind of online presence.


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## loblawbobblog

Wiseowl said:


> I have a picture of me an an ex in my sock drawer and I couldn’t stand the guy. I do like the dress I was wearing in the picture. It’s not a big deal in my thinking.


And you'd be ok with your boyfriend/husband having a picture of him and his ex in his sock drawer?


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## Evinrude58

OP,
It’s not often that people cheat and there’s not a change in behavior with their spouse.
I have always had a picture or two from college of my past gf. I loved her, still care for her well-being, and would hate to lose the picture. I don’t have any interest in her romantically, although after I was divorced, did look her up and we met (she was single too) but I wasn’t interested anymore.
Your wife likely was reminiscing. Not necessarily a good thing, but a human thing.
Hurtful, but not necessarily a huge problem unless she’s searching him out.

If now that you have a little hindsight, you still have noticed no changes in sex habits, gym routine, smart phone use or phone guarding, how she dresses, noticed no new underwear purchases, etc……. And you still plan trips, have sex, and enjoy time together, it’s probably not a huge deal.

But it would bother me, too. Especially that she wasn’t trying to assuage your fears of her still harboring feelings for the guy.

Any more background you can give? No changes in intimacy?


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## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.
> 
> I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


I was on the “it’s no big deal” team until this post. I’m sorry, this seems fishy. I thought maybe she just didn’t want to make a deal and lied because she was embarrassed. Now I’m not sure. She needs to explain. This is not good wife behavior. It is not respectful or loving, I don’t like it and am mad at her on your behalf. Get an answer, you deserve one.


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## loblawbobblog

Evinrude58 said:


> OP,
> It’s not often that people cheat and there’s not a change in behavior with their spouse.
> I have always had a picture or two from college of my past gf. I loved her, still care for her well-being, and would hate to lose the picture. I don’t have any interest in her romantically, although after I was divorced, did look her up and we met (she was single too) but I wasn’t interested anymore.
> Your wife likely was reminiscing. Not necessarily a good thing, but a human thing.
> Hurtful, but not necessarily a huge problem unless she’s searching him out.
> 
> If now that you have a little hindsight, you still have noticed no changes in sex habits, gym routine, smart phone use or phone guarding, how she dresses, noticed no new underwear purchases, etc……. And you still plan trips, have sex, and enjoy time together, it’s probably not a huge deal.
> 
> But it would bother me, too. Especially that she wasn’t trying to assuage your fears of her still harboring feelings for the guy.
> 
> Any more background you can give? No changes in intimacy?


No changes in intimacy or general behavior. I don't think she's up to anything and I have no issue with reminiscing about exes, I'm not trying to police her thoughts. I simply find it disrespectful and inconsiderate and a little suspicious to have a picture of her and her ex separated out from the rest of her old photos and placed in a readily accessible location in our bedroom.


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## Openminded

Yes, I would care. Greatly. I got rid of everything related to any ex when I got married because that seemed to me to be the right thing to do in starting my new life. If my exH had at some point hidden a picture of him and an ex in his sock drawer and then couldn’t give me a good explanation for why it was there and also didn’t remove it when I first asked — yeah, I wouldn’t be happy about it. But I also don’t think you’re going to get any more from her.


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## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was on the “it’s no big deal” team until this post. I’m sorry, this seems fishy. I thought maybe she just didn’t want to make a deal and lied because she was embarrassed. Now I’m not sure. She needs to explain. This is not good wife behavior. It is not respectful or loving, I don’t like it and am mad at her on your behalf. Get an answer, you deserve one.


After all, 'maybe it fell in my sock drawer' is laughable. At least be honest, please.


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## Laurentium

loblawbobblog said:


> I would be totally fine with that, but instead she got evasive.


Yeah, I think the evasiveness is the problem. (Not the ex). So either she's not good at being open, or you're not good at listening to things, or some mixture. Figure that out.


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## sideways

What would be on my mind if this was my wife. Was she pleasuring herself while looking at the picture? Why have it in a sock drawer in the bedroom and then lie about how it got there?


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## ConanHub

loblawbobblog said:


> So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.
> 
> I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


I responded that my wife would have some splainin to do. That means I would consider it a big enough deal that we would be having some very uncomfortable and serious conversations about our marriage and path going forward. I don't play and she would need to talk to me about whatever the malfunction was with us and her that she was behaving that way.

Mrs. C wouldn't think about having a picture of an ex in her personal possession nor would I be behaving that way.


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## manwithnoname

There is no good reason to keep a picture with an ex in it. Even if you like the way you looked in the picture, there’s a new invention that can remove the ex from the picture so as not to offend the current spouse. But be cautious, it is not advisable to run while holding this small device.


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## sideways

manwithnoname said:


> There is no good reason to keep a picture with an ex in it. Even if you like the way you looked in the picture, there’s a new invention that can remove the ex from the picture so as not to offend the current spouse. But be cautious, it is not advisable to run while holding this small device.


Ok this made me think of this scene from "Cheers":


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## Sfort

loblawbobblog said:


> I would be totally fine with that, but instead she got evasive. I don't think she's in contact with him, he doesn't have a social media presence or any kind of online presence.


She may not know or believe you would be fine with that. Maybe she's trying to protect your feelings.


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## *Deidre*

I’ve never kept anything from past relationships - even on social media. So, I can’t relate to why your wife wants to hang on to a pic from a past bf. I dated quite a few jerks before my husband, so I wanted nothing to ever remind me of those bad choices.

Not judging your wife, just saying I can’t relate to hanging onto past “souvenirs” of former relationships.


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## BecauseSheWeeps

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's awesome. If you're the kind of husband who also puts HER laundry away and not just your own, I wouldn't worry about some old picture.


My husband put my laundry away once. And he made sure to count every single piece of clothing as he did it. And then compared it to his 😆 😆 😆


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## Blondilocks

loblawbobblog said:


> I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, *she said she hadn't yet.
> *



This is what concerns me. I doubt that was the first time you put her laundry away so she couldn't have expected to have privacy when she placed the pic there. To shine on your request to move the pic was disrespectful and may be indicative of her resenting you for some reason.

You hadn't by any chance teased her about getting fat or letting herself go or refused to do something she wanted in the near past, did you?


----------



## HappilyMarried1

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


I personally would not be bothered by the photo itself, but more by the explanation I agree her explanation does not seem truthful to me either. I would be more bothered by that. Best of luck!


----------



## Sfort

HappilyMarried1 said:


> I personally would not be bothered by the photo itself, but more by the explanation I agree her explanation does not seem truthful to me either. I would be more bothered by that. Best of luck!


Anyone who believes that his or her spouse has told all of his or her secrets is rather naïve. People are entitled to keep secrets. Spouses are not entitled deceive each other. That's just my opinion, of course.


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## HappilyMarried1

Sfort said:


> Spouses are not entitled deceive each other.


I agree totally about all spouses having little secrets (no problem) but when directly asked that would be the only issue I would have but if OP has not seen any other changes it may be she was just embarrassed by him seeing it. That could be all @loblawbobblog


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## blackclover3

@Longtime Hubby I find it extremely disrespectful to have this picture. after all he is the guy she used to Fu** and wasn't married to him. 
it is not about her remembering her old days, she can remember her old days with so many different pictures. having his picture means she miss him and wonder what would be like to be with him. 

Imagine if it is the way around, you have your ex- pictures hidden somewhere


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## 346745

blackclover3 said:


> @Longtime Hubby I find it extremely disrespectful to have this picture. after all he is the guy she used to Fu** and wasn't married to him.
> it is not about her remembering her old days, she can remember her old days with so many different pictures. having his picture means she miss him and wonder what would be like to be with him.
> 
> Imagine if it is the way around, you have your ex- pictures hidden somewhere


While I can see that, there’s no harm in recalling a former love. I sometimes think of my old GF. She died nine years ago. She was part of my life, as the guy in the photo was in this woman’s life. Can’t rewrite history


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## SunCMars

loblawbobblog said:


> I would be totally fine with that, but instead she got evasive. I don't think she's in contact with him, he doesn't have a social media presence or any kind of online presence.


How do you know this?

You are merely assuming. Start quietly snooping.


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## jsmart

You can’t rewrite history but you shouldn’t purposely dwell on it. The reason to have a pic(s) of an ex is to reminisce of the time they had together. To me, that’s not anything a loving spouse should be doing. If your mind goes there, that’s not something most of us can control but to actively look at a pic, to relive that time? Nope. Sorry, but I’m not that understanding or open minded.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.
> 
> I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


I personally would care A LOT, but that is because my wife knows how I feel about her ex. It would also be very out of character for her to have a picture of him at all, let alone in her sock drawer.

Unless the picture was loosely laying on top of all the socks the story is obvious BS. You may still not get a straight story, but I would have a talk with her. Let her know there is no judgement, but her story just doesn't add up and after all these good years together you just want a straight answer. Maybe even ask her straight up if she was reminiscing about the old days.


----------



## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> I personally would care A LOT, but that is because my wife knows how I feel about her ex. It would also be very out of character for her to have a picture of him at all, let alone in her sock drawer.
> 
> Unless the picture was loosely laying on top of all the socks the story is obvious BS. You may still not get a straight story, but I would have a talk with her. Let her know there is no judgement, but her story just doesn't add up and after all these good years together you just want a straight answer. Maybe even ask her straight up if she was reminiscing about the old days.


The problem with your advice. Is the OP made sure she knew there was judgement already. By demanding the picture be returned to the garage and then checking on it he has made it plain this is a topic to discuss lightly. He has shut down communication on this issue. I doubt the wife will be saying anything now.


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## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> The problem with your advice. Is the OP made sure she knew there was judgement already. By demanding the picture be returned to the garage and then checking on it he has made it plain this is a topic to discuss lightly. He has shut down communication on this issue. I doubt the wife will be saying anything now.


Very good point. The opportunity has probably passed unless he is very persuasive and good communications skills. That probably isn't the case though.


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## A18S37K14H18

OP,

You know she's hiding something, her feelings for him most likely. As you said, she was being evasive. You said she gave you a BS story.

Tell her that you know her well being that you've been together 30 years. Ask her when lying became alright in your relationship together. Ask her if she's OK with you lying to her.

Tell her since she's chosen to lie to you regarding this she's going to take a polygraph.

Tell her that her choice to lie to you regarding this has broken your trust in her and you want to know the truth and you don't trust her to be honest with you regarding this since she's lied to you about this, been evasive etc.

Tell her after 30 years together you deserve to at least know the truth and that your appalled with her for thinking it's OK for her to lie and be evasive to you regarding this.

Her reaction when you tell her she has to take a poly will be telling.

Me thinks she'll blame you, say you don't trust her (ya think?), that you're making a mountain out of a molehill etc.

If she really loves and cares for you, about your feelings, cares about what you're going through regarding this then she will be kind, loving, caring and empathetic towards you. She'll try to understand what you're feeling and she'd be apologizing to you for hurting you and breaking your trust in her etc.

So, her initial reaction to you telling her she has to take a poly will be quite telling... hopefully her reaction will be a good one, loving, supporting, showing remorse for hurting you, lying to you etc.

Sadly, me thinks she'll be upset with you and don't fall for her words saying you're be controlling, making a mountain out of a molehill and that you don't trust her.

Tell her that her lying and being evasive is the reason you don't trust her. Tell her it's on her, not you. Don't let her shift the blame to you about this.

Without trust, there really isn't a relationship.


----------



## 346745

jsmart said:


> You can’t rewrite history but you shouldn’t purposely dwell on it. The reason to have a pic(s) of an ex is to reminisce of the time they had together. To me, that’s not anything a loving spouse should be doing. If your mind goes there, that’s not something most of us can control but to actively look at a pic, to relive that time? Nope. Sorry, but I’m not that understanding or open minded.


It’s not wrong to reflect. That part of life made her what she is today


----------



## TexasMom1216

Longtime Hubby said:


> It’s not wrong to reflect. That part of life made her what she is today


I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to reflect. What's wrong is that he found the picture and she lied about it and then when he told her it bothered him she still didn't put it back. It's less about the picture and more about her behavior around the whole situation. IMO.


----------



## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> Very good point. The opportunity has probably passed unless he is very persuasive and good communications skills. That probably isn't the case though.


I have no idea what this situation is. I have old photos. I don't keep any in my sock drawer. I don't believe she is probably not masturbating to the picture as some has suggested. that's a man thing. I don't know any women who masturbate to a picture. 

The OP hasn't stated if the wife has any contact with this old picture. I know the pictures I have of old flames is more about a time in my life than the person.

I don't know that the dynamic of this marriage but the demand and then the check doesn't indicate good communication or the possibility of opening that up. It's dictorial. 

While I understand possibly being hurt by the finding it was handled in a way that doesn't encourage a good relationship.
The wife's answer could have been true but most likely a dodge because they don't seem to have good communication.

OP hasn't really expanded on most of this.


----------



## JWakk

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


The problem is they never really get over their EXs especially if he was the one who broke up with her. All I will say here is keep your eyes open for the ex maybe coming back into town and suddenly her wanting to meet to catch up for old times sake,

It is plain as day she has been thinking about him that's why she separated the photo and the fact she lied to you about it is a red Flag (eyes Wide Open ) my friend, I think you should check her social media, when married their should be no secrets between spouses unless someone is trying to hide something also check her phone if you get the chance never mind the privacy crap a married couple doesn't have that privilege.

Try not to be to obvious though so as not to cause unnecessary trouble because she will use the you don't trust me card without a doubt. I think soon he will be coming somewhere where they are going to meet up she may tell you or say it is a girls night out, If that happens get a friend Girl or Guy to follow them and get some pics if what I think is going to happen happens when she comes home ask her about her night and if she lies just say these pics tell a different story so what were you really doing.

If she tell the truth it is a friend she is going to catch up with ( she will never say a past Ex ) that would raise suspicion, Then say lets both go meet this friend, see how that plays out you'll soon see by her re-action what she had in mind. Catching up with an Ex usually means a night in a hotel room.


----------



## JWakk

happyhusband0005 said:


> I know a lot of women who keep old pictures with old friends and boyfriends, because they like to remember how they looked when they were young.


Yes but not suddenly separating them where he wouldn't most likely see them then lying about it.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> This is what concerns me. I doubt that was the first time you put her laundry away so she couldn't have expected to have privacy when she placed the pic there. To shine on your request to move the pic was disrespectful and may be indicative of her resenting you for some reason.
> 
> You hadn't by any chance teased her about getting fat or letting herself go or refused to do something she wanted in the near past, did you?


The past sometimes holds those perfect memories.

We escape, and go back to them when present thoughts become painful.

The one that _got-away_, never does that in our memories.

Those _what-ifs,_ can become those _want-wishes_.

When OP's wife becomes distressed, distraught, depressed, she can pull out that photo and be comforted.

The photo becomes her _adult pacifier._

It likely has been pressed tight to her chest, on more than one occasion.


----------



## SunCMars

Yes, many here invent stories.
They do, I do, I did, I have.

Yet, few stories are without precedent.

Stories open your mind to possibilities, to actual realities.

Nothing, under the _Sun_ is new.

Under_ SunCMars?_


----------



## JWakk

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I find some of these answers that are hinting at something suspicious to be hilarious 😂. Come on folks, the picture is at least 30 years old! We are talking about pre 1992. It's probably a washed out polaroid of a guy with a mullet in his rust bucket Camaro, and heading to the Metallica concert while drinking a Busch light beer 🤣
> 
> I think I am going to dig out some of my ex girlfriends pictures and lay them on the end table tonight to watch the wife's reaction 😂.


Yes and the men who say it is nothing usually end up here saying they never expected their wife would Cheat, It happened out of the blue, Well it never happens out of the blue it is just you weren't paying attention because you trusted her/him so much My moto is trust but verify and it has saved me a numerous amount of times.
Here it is the fact it was with other photos always but suddenly it is on it's own in her sock drawer, the fact she then denied she put it there is the problem after she was supposed to be doing something on social media with it but said she didn't.
I bet she did and I would be checking phone bill and social media plus mobile if I was him it will put his mind at rest.
It is a mans place to protect his marriage always even if sometimes he has to go to extremes to do that.
She has been in contact with her EX and he has asked to meet up If I'm wrong I'm wrong but if not he has a heads up to stop anything before it happens.


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## JWakk

Diana7 said:


> But why lie about why it's there?


Actually saying she didn't know how it got there, They need to check for Poltergeists in the house


happyhusband0005 said:


> Agreed, the OP knows her so there must be a reason he believes she was not telling the truth about why it was there. Maybe she typically lies about things that are silly to lie about to avoid confrontation.


I wouldn't have said it the way he did as I am direct, I would have said so your fantasising about your past lover are you so tell me am I being replaced as I'll move out now if you like. I would do it in a fun way but also as a warning that I won't tolerated any messing around. I have found this to work far better than the and huffing and puffing about because even though joking it is also a warning.


----------



## JWakk

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> My husband put my laundry away once. And he made sure to count every single piece of clothing as he did it. And then compared it to his 😆 😆 😆


It's the fact she denies how it got there which is raising suspicion, she could have said when I got it out to use it on the internet II just put it there as it was easier at the time but from what he says she was caught out and couldn't think of an answer so she lied ( Guilty feelings ) Guilt always shows itself.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

JWakk said:


> Yes and the men who say it is nothing usually end up here saying they never expected their wife would Cheat, It happened out of the blue, Well it never happens out of the blue it is just you weren't paying attention because you trusted her/him so much My moto is trust but verify and it has saved me a numerous amount of times.
> Here it is the fact it was with other photos always but suddenly it is on it's own in her sock drawer, the fact she then denied she put it there is the problem after she was supposed to be doing something on social media with it but said she didn't.
> I bet she did and I would be checking phone bill and social media plus mobile if I was him it will put his mind at rest.
> It is a mans place to protect his marriage always even if sometimes he has to go to extremes to do that.
> She has been in contact with her EX and he has asked to meet up If I'm wrong I'm wrong but if not he has a heads up to stop anything before it happens.


If it were a recent picture such as a year or so earlier, yes. But I think a person looks foolish for being paranoid about a picture from early 1990s or possibly the 80s 🤣


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## BigDaddyNY

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> If it were a recent picture such as a year or so earlier, yes. But I think a person looks foolish for being paranoid about a picture from early 1990s or possibly the 80s 🤣


I'm not so sure. That old flame could be rekindled at any time. My wife and her ex parted on bad terms and that kind of thing still bothered me even though I knew there was no chance they would ever hook up. There was a complete purge of what little she did have with and picture or reference to him. Now there were some extenuating circumstances in my case, but I can completely sympathize with the hurt feelings. OP could have done a better job of approaching it with his wife that may have resulted in a more honest response from her.

A key component in my mind is what were the terms of the break up? I wonder if @loblawbobblog know the detail of that? He seems pretty confident that there has been no contact, but I too would be concerned that the picture in the sock drawer was just step one in her thinking about the ex. Step two may have been searching him out.


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## JWakk

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> If it were a recent picture such as a year or so earlier, yes. But I think a person looks foolish for being paranoid about a picture from early 1990s or possibly the 80s 🤣


All I'm saying is simply the fact she was caught out and then lied about it is suspicious. I have studied so many relationships and seen how they play out from the start of things going wrong to divorce that there are certain things you need to watch for. Why it suddenly after all this time has sparked her to do that says one of two things either he has been in contact or she with him or he is coming into town and has asked to meet.
Something is not right here and I am just letting you know to be aware. Just because you have been married 30 years doesn't make you exempt from from being taken for a ride. 
Some men have found there wives cheating on them for year without the slightest clue it was happening. 
When they were enlightened and they looked back there were times things weren't quite right but they blindly trusted there spouses and that's what destroyed them.
|Never and I mean never trust anyone blindly in your case for peace of mind I would Trust but Verify what ever anyone else may think. If everything is fine then good but at least you put your mind at rest
Anyway see how it goes and I gave you a plan to follow if needed but hopefully it won't be.

Good Luck My friend.


----------



## JWakk

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> If it were a recent picture such as a year or so earlier, yes. But I think a person looks foolish for being paranoid about a picture from early 1990s or possibly the 80s 🤣


It's not paranoid to be aware of things that aren't quite right, you have to just investigate further for peace of mind.


----------



## loblawbobblog

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not so sure. That old flame could be rekindled at any time. My wife and her ex parted on bad terms and that kind of thing still bothered me even though I knew there was no chance they would ever hook up. There was a complete purge of what little she did have with and picture or reference to him. Now there were some extenuating circumstances in my case, but I can completely sympathize with the hurt feelings. OP could have done a better job of approaching it with his wife that may have resulted in a more honest response from her.
> 
> A key component in my mind is what were the terms of the break up? I wonder if @loblawbobblog know the detail of that? He seems pretty confident that there has been no contact, but I too would be concerned that the picture in the sock drawer was just step one in her thinking about the ex. Step two may have been searching him out.


It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


----------



## JWakk

loblawbobblog said:


> It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


See as more comes out the picture becomes clearer and your right here sit her down and have a really in-depth conversation about your marriage and figure out if something is bothering her and if she won't talk to you get her into IC then you both do some counselling together as things will only get worse if you don't.
Don't think because they ended on bad terms that he can't get her to see him again, she had his child she will never forget that and believe me he will use that to get to her if he can. These type of men are a scourge on society and they couldn't care less who they destroy.


----------



## ConanHub

loblawbobblog said:


> It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


So you know what to do and I agree.

Talk it out with her.


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


Well that would have been great but the way you approached it tells her you don't really want to talk. 

Also I'd like to add at this age some of what she may be reflecting on is the lost baby. Many women come back to that after an abortion.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Also I'd like to add at this age some of what she may be reflecting on is the lost baby. Many women come back to that after an abortion.


That there was a baby does change things. You should talk to her.


----------



## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> That there was a baby does change things. You should talk to her.


I'm trying to suss out how is he now going to talk and expect any kind of meaningful response. He has made it plain he isn't open to it. so to now say oh I want to talk about it would feel like a trap wouldn't it? Would you walk into that trap if you were her. It's like when they want to know if you orgasmed or not. Some really want to know and others just want to feel good about themselves. Once you know they dont' want your honest input do your really go the other way. I"m thinking of the too small penis thread......


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> Well that would have been great but the way you approached it tells her you don't really want to talk.
> 
> Also I'd like to add at this age some of what she may be reflecting on is the lost baby. Many women come back to that after an abortion.


I don't think asking her to remove the picture from our bedroom is an unreasonable request. That's really good insight on the abortion, she very well could be reflecting on that. Thanks.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


I think you need to talk to her about this in the most calm and caring way you can muster. It could be a relationship issue or as other have said it could be thoughts of the baby and sadly, he is the only tangible memory of the baby.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> I'm trying to suss out how is he now going to talk and expect any kind of meaningful response. He has made it plain he isn't open to it. so to now say oh I want to talk about it would feel like a trap wouldn't it? Would you walk into that trap if you were her. It's like when they want to know if you orgasmed or not. Some really want to know and others just want to feel good about themselves. Once you know they dont' want your honest input do your really go the other way. I"m thinking of the too small penis thread......


Yeah, it's a tough situation because he's already gotten mad about it. Hopefully he's had time to think and can approach it with her.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> I'm trying to suss out how is he now going to talk and expect any kind of meaningful response. He has made it plain he isn't open to it. so to now say oh I want to talk about it would feel like a trap wouldn't it? Would you walk into that trap if you were her. It's like when they want to know if you orgasmed or not. Some really want to know and others just want to feel good about themselves. Once you know they dont' want your honest input do your really go the other way. I"m thinking of the too small penis thread......


I initially came at this from a perspective of wanting to understand her motivation, though. She shut me out.


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think asking her to remove the picture from our bedroom is an unreasonable request. That's really good insight on the abortion, she very well could be reflecting on that. Thanks.


So 1st I don't think it is unreasonable. However just the way you write about it doesn't sound like a request. Second no matter where the picture is you are actually just trying to control her thinking. The picture is irrelevent.

Do I have this all wrong? Do you think you approached it in a manner that would lead her to open up to you about anything she is thinking and feeling in this topic?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I initially came at this from a perspective of wanting to understand her motivation, though. She shut me out.


She knows this guys is a sore spot for you and didn't want to poke at that. You will need to be very delicate about it, but I feel it is important to have the discussion with her.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> So 1st I don't think it is unreasonable. However just the way you write about it doesn't sound like a request. Second no matter where the picture is you are actually just trying to control her thinking. The picture is irrelevent.
> 
> Do I have this all wrong? Do you think you approached it in a manner that would lead her to open up to you about anything she is thinking and feeling in this topic?


I'm genuinely not trying to control her thoughts. I started the conversation with her by acknowledging that he was an important part of her life and that's it's totally normal and fine with me if she reminisces about him and/or that time in general. But again, it was the act of separating that picture from the old photo box and putting it in her sock drawer, in our bedroom not 3 feet away from our bed, where it's readily accessible, that bothers me. Would you be so sanguine about finding a similar picture of your husband and his ex in his sock drawer?


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm genuinely not trying to control her thoughts. I started the conversation with her by acknowledging that he was an important part of her life and that's it's totally normal and fine with me if she reminisces about him and/or that time in general. But again, it was the act of separating that picture from the old photo box and putting it in her sock drawer, in our bedroom not 3 feet away from our bed, where it's readily accessible, that bothers me. Would you be so sanguine about finding a similar picture of your husband and his ex in his sock drawer?


So I'm not going to say it wouldn't bother me. I can say I wouldn't demand he put it back and then check on it a week later and lose my cool about it.

it doesn't sound from the beginning posts that you were in the perfectly normal and find to reminisce. 

My question is why being 3 feet from you bed is your main focus? You believe she uses the picture sexually? You think he watches you from the drawer? No you are worried her thoughts are on him and the relationship. You are upset at her thoughts you've made it known and know you are upset she isn't sharing her thoughts that you've made it plain you are not waiting her to have.

Asking how it impacts your relationship is the important point to me. What got her to thinking? Was she organizing?
What is the context of the picture? We know she was younger, was she skinnier? Could this be a picture when she was pregnant? Do you have children? do you have both a girl and a boy?


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> My question is why being 3 feet from you bed is your main focus? You believe she uses the picture sexually? You think he watches you
> 
> Asking how it impacts your relationship is the important point to me. What got her to thinking? Was she organizing?
> What is the context of the picture? We know she was younger, was she skinnier? Could this be a picture when she was pregnant? Do you have children? do you have both a girl and a boy?


I totally agree, that's all I want to know, if there is something lacking in our relationship that would cause her to put this picture in her sock drawer. Yes she was younger and skinnier in the photo, but there are many photos since we've been together showing her not much older and just as thin, so it's not that. We have 3 boys, all adults now. She is probably pregnant in that picture, and again that's really good insight on your part, it could very well be mourning for that lost child. The point is, I don't know any of this for sure because she won't tell me. Maybe she has every right to keep it to herself, but the picture was still there and her private thoughts became public to me when I found it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I totally agree, that's all I want to know, if there is something lacking in our relationship that would cause her to put this picture in her sock drawer. Yes she was younger and skinnier in the photo, but there are many photos since we've been together showing her not much older and just as thin, so it's not that. We have 3 boys, all adults now. She is probably pregnant in that picture, and again that's really good insight on your part, it could very well be mourning for that lost child. The point is, I don't know any of this for sure because she won't tell me. Maybe she has every right to keep it to herself, but the picture was still there and her private thoughts became public to me when I found it.


Maybe this is irrelevant, but any idea how long it has been in there? Do you regularly put the socks away and this showed up since the last time you put the laundry away or has it been there a long time? 

I think the loss of the baby is very plausible. She may have started thinking about it when she was going through the pics for that post you mentioned. Did the pic happen to show up in there on an anniversary of her pregnancy or abortion, or something like that?


----------



## *Deidre*

Just thinking out loud for a moment...

If there’s a copy of this pic on her phone in her photos recently, there’s your answer. You could nonchalantly ask to use her phone and if her reaction seems defensive, you also have your answer. The answer being that she took a photo of the pic to share with him perhaps on FB or IG, privately. That would explain why it was out of the box.

It is not at all far-fetched that she has been chatting with this guy on social media - not that this means they’re planning to run away together but it could simply be two people reminiscing about high school but she knows you wouldn’t like that, so she lied. 

Not trying to make you paranoid but when things don’t make sense, there’s a reason. That makes more sense to me than her story. I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

*Deidre* said:


> Just thinking out loud for a moment...
> 
> If there’s a copy of this pic on her phone in her photos recently, there’s your answer. You could nonchalantly ask to use her phone and if her reaction seems defensive, you also have your answer. The answer being that she took a photo of the pic to share with him perhaps on FB or IG, privately. That would explain why it was out of the box.
> 
> It is not at all far-fetched that she has been chatting with this guy on social media - not that this means they’re planning a way to run away together but it could simply be two people reminiscing about high school but she knows you wouldn’t like that, so she lied.
> 
> Not trying to make you paranoid but when things don’t make sense, there’s a reason. That makes more sense to me than her story. I hope I’m wrong.


I think the chance of her wanting reestablish contact with a physically abusive ex that resulted in an aborted pregnancy is pretty remote. I think this is more about their current relationship and/or remorse about the lost baby.


----------



## loblawbobblog

BigDaddyNY said:


> Maybe this is irrelevant, but any idea how long it has been in there? Do you regularly put the socks away and this showed up since the last time you put the laundry away or has it been there a long time?
> 
> I think the loss of the baby is very plausible. She may have started thinking about it when she was going through the pics for that post you mentioned. Did the pic happen to show up in there on an anniversary of her pregnancy or abortion, or something like that?


She went through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram a couple months ago so I'm guessing that's when it showed up in her sock drawer. I don't know the date or month of her pregnancy or the abortion.


----------



## loblawbobblog

*Deidre* said:


> Just thinking out loud for a moment...
> 
> If there’s a copy of this pic on her phone in her photos recently, there’s your answer. You could nonchalantly ask to use her phone and if her reaction seems defensive, you also have your answer. The answer being that she took a photo of the pic to share with him perhaps on FB or IG, privately. That would explain why it was out of the box.
> 
> It is not at all far-fetched that she has been chatting with this guy on social media - not that this means they’re planning a way to run away together but it could simply be two people reminiscing about high school but she knows you wouldn’t like that, so she lied.
> 
> Not trying to make you paranoid but when things don’t make sense, there’s a reason. That makes more sense to me than her story. I hope I’m wrong.


The guy has no online presence whatsoever. Believe me, after finding the photo I checked far and wide. I believe her when she says there's no contact.


----------



## *Deidre*

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the chance of her wanting reestablish contact with a physically abusive ex that resulted in an aborted pregnancy is pretty remote. I think this is more about their current relationship and/or remorse about the lost baby.


Oh, I didn’t know this backstory. That changes a lot then. Maybe she is saving the pic because it reminds her of the baby.

That’s a very sad story if that is the case.


----------



## SunCMars

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm genuinely not trying to control her thoughts. I started the conversation with her by acknowledging that he was an important part of her life and that's it's totally normal and fine with me if she reminisces about him and/or that time in general. But again, it was the act of separating that picture from the old photo box and putting it in her sock drawer, in our bedroom not 3 feet away from our bed, where it's readily accessible, that bothers me. Would you be so sanguine about finding a similar picture of your husband and his ex in his sock drawer?


Think about this....

She separated from her past lover because he was an addict, and a drug user.

That is a good reason for dumping someone, but that does not mean she did not love the guy.

She did what was prudent and rational, and doing so, she likely ignored her true emotions.
Her aborting his child was the most painful thing imaginable for her.

It left a scar, and those memories of love, of regrets, they still live within her.

Phew... what a mess.


----------



## *Deidre*

loblawbobblog said:


> The guy has no online presence whatsoever. Believe me, after finding the photo I checked far and wide. I believe her when she says there's no contact.


I should have scrolled up a little further, I see you share more of the backstory. I don’t know...this all sounds very sad though.


----------



## loblawbobblog

SunCMars said:


> Think about this....
> 
> She separated from her past lover because he was an addict, and a drug user.
> 
> That is a good reason for dumping someone, but that does not mean she did not love the guy.
> 
> She did what was prudent and rational, and doing so, she likely ignored her true emotions.
> Her aborting his child was the most painful thing imaginable for her.
> 
> It left a scar, and those memories of love, of regrets, they still live within her.
> 
> Phew... what a mess.


Yes, this makes the most sense to me out of all the responses. Like I said earlier, I know way too many details about their relationship, it was volatile but very passionate and she has continued to mention this guy occasionally throughout our 30 years together, including during a recent date night. She has unresolved feelings about their time together.


----------



## *Deidre*

Do you feel over the years that your relationship has struggled because of this prior relationship?


----------



## JWakk

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm genuinely not trying to control her thoughts. I started the conversation with her by acknowledging that he was an important part of her life and that's it's totally normal and fine with me if she reminisces about him and/or that time in general. But again, it was the act of separating that picture from the old photo box and putting it in her sock drawer, in our bedroom not 3 feet away from our bed, where it's readily accessible, that bothers me. Would you be so sanguine about finding a similar picture of your husband and his ex in his sock drawer?


A wife would probably be asking for divorce as she would consider it cheating on her.


----------



## loblawbobblog

*Deidre* said:


> Do you feel over the years that your relationship has struggled because of this prior relationship?


Yes. I feel I'm always being compared to him. I'm a very different person than him, I am the opposite of volatile, but I'm also not that passionate. It's just not in my nature. She has told me multiple times throughout our relationship that she needs more from me. Not attention, which I give plenty of, not a good house, which I provide quite well for, just...more.


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> She went through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram a couple months ago so I'm guessing that's when it showed up in her sock drawer. I don't know the date or month of her pregnancy or the abortion.


So you know why it came up. You simple don't know what it means to her. I know with being 50 and past child bearing age I would be wondering what it would be like to have a daughter. Sons don't usually have the same relationship with mom's as daughter's do.

However you two don't seem to have the kind of relationship where she feels safe telling you the truth. Since you say the ex came up recently then it doesn't appear she is afraid to bring his name up.

In what context was he brought up on your recent date night?


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes. I feel I'm always being compared to him. I'm a very different person than him, I am the opposite of volatile, but I'm also not that passionate. It's just not in my nature. She has told me multiple times throughout our relationship that she needs more from me. Not attention, which I give plenty of, not a good house, which I provide quite well for, just...more.


She wants you to be more?

So does she mean absolutely positively obsessed and desirous of her AKA passionate?

or what do you know what this more is?


----------



## Anastasia6

I meant to add. How old are your children? How is the rest of your relationship? you say she's told you over and over she needs more... When kids fly the coop and life starts changing then often this is when walk away wives happen. This doesn't necessarily mean another person in the picture but mid-life crisis a wonder of the road untraveled.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> So you know why it came up. You simple don't know what it means to her. I know with being 50 and past child bearing age I would be wondering what it would be like to have a daughter. Sons don't usually have the same relationship with mom's as daughter's do.
> 
> However you two don't seem to have the kind of relationship where she feels safe telling you the truth. Since you say the ex came up recently then it doesn't appear she is afraid to bring his name up.
> 
> In what context was he brought up on your recent date night?


You're really helping me figure this out, I mean that. On that date night, the subject of getting your fortune told came up, she said she did that once for fun before we met and the fortune teller told her she'd have a child named Brandon. Her ex went on to have a son and, you guessed it, his name is Brandon. ****ing hell. That's gotta be it. She even said she's glad she didn't stay with him, but the whole thing was like a glimpse into an alternate reality where she did stay with him. I'm an idiot. Thank you, for real.


----------



## wmn1

jsmart said:


> We always tell posters to trust their guy if they’re sensing something is up or you’re being lied to. You know her better than we do. This situation and her response bothered you enough for you to research for a forum like TAM and pose your questions.
> 
> There’s some really understanding open minded people posting on this thread and I guess I must be an insecure, controlling dinosaur of a husband because I would NOT be ok with my wife of 32 years 35 together and mother of my 4 kids having a pic of some old boyfriend. I definitely would not have a pic of an old girlfriend. Am I in the minority? Possibly, but that wouldn’t sway me to change my opinion that a wife of many decades should NOT have any pics of someone from their past. Especially not hidden in her sock draw. Like @Evinrude58 joked, was this picture next to her vibrator?


yeah, I am with you Jsmart. No insecurities. This is clearly an issue and the openminded people can go screw. I get there is a photo. Hell, I have a couple photos of my exs in photo albums that I haven't purged and my wife doesn't mind. I don't have them readily accessible in a sock drawer. I am just one who wants photos of my entire life collected in one place. But this incident is a little disturbing. Especially after 32 years and 4 kids. He needs to be assertive about this. Is she pining for this scumbag or something ?


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> I meant to add. How old are your children? How is the rest of your relationship? you say she's told you over and over she needs more... When kids fly the coop and life starts changing then often this is when walk away wives happen. This doesn't necessarily mean another person in the picture but mid-life crisis a wonder of the road untraveled.


Our youngest is 18. We'll be empty nesters within the next few years.


----------



## wmn1

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was on the “it’s no big deal” team until this post. I’m sorry, this seems fishy. I thought maybe she just didn’t want to make a deal and lied because she was embarrassed. Now I’m not sure. She needs to explain. This is not good wife behavior. It is not respectful or loving, I don’t like it and am mad at her on your behalf. Get an answer, you deserve one.


yes this !!


----------



## *Deidre*

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes. I feel I'm always being compared to him. I'm a very different person than him, I am the opposite of volatile, but I'm also not that passionate. It's just not in my nature. She has told me multiple times throughout our relationship that she needs more from me. Not attention, which I give plenty of, not a good house, which I provide quite well for, just...more.


Okay, this is all making more sense, now. I’m going to share something that I hope helps you. I had an abusive relationship and abusive men in general, provide extreme highs and lows. They’re never boring, always keeping their gf’s/wives off balance. But...they are quite passionate, thrill seeking and dramatic. At first, abusive men are charming and attentive, but they quickly turn possessive, jealous, degrading, and name calling. As the gf/wife, you wonder what’s happening, and you blame yourself. Abusers and/or narcissists are master manipulators and they are very hard to break away from. Even when you know you have to get away from them, there’s something that draws you back into the drama. The only way out is to sever all contact and don’t look back.

My husband is the opposite of all that chaos but he’s also passionate. I think your wife misses perhaps the “good” parts of that guy, the extreme highs that I mention but with you, she has stability, love, comfort and security. I’m sure she is grateful for that, and my guess is she doesn’t miss him, per se, but it was something she never resolved. If we don’t resolve past traumatic events, they don’t just magically go away. They manifest in other ways.

I will say though that while your wife is “entitled” to think about an ex, you’re also entitled to feel bad about it.

But, that is why she needs “more” from you, because she remembers those highs with him, even though the relationship was toxic. Toxic relationships are never boring, but they’re also not what love is supposed to be about. I learned that and I truly hope that your wife can let go of whatever it is from that relationship that keeps her a little stuck.

If she was pregnant by him that adds another layer and she may be doing “what if” thinking. We’re all human at the end of the day and life can be messy sometimes, especially when love is involved.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> Our youngest is 18. We'll be empty nesters within the next few years.


We were on the verge of empty nest about 4-5 years ago and honestly it scared the crap out of me. It felt like it was going to be as life changing as having kids. My wife took it in stride other than missing the hell out of the kids. Don't underestimate how a life changing event like that can impact a person. Honestly the fear made me work on being a better husband, but I'm sure it can also cause a sense of melancholy and a bunch of other emotions.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> We were on the verge of empty nest about 4-5 years ago and honestly it scared the crap out of me. It felt like it was going to be as life changing as having kids. My wife took it in stride other than missing the hell out of the kids. Don't underestimate how a life changing event like that can impact a person. Honestly the fear made me work on being a better husband, but I'm sure it can also cause a sense of melancholy and a bunch of other emotions.


I'm not there yet, but I would imagine it's a big nerve-wracking to suddenly be alone with someone you've not been alone with (long term) for over 20 years. When you have kids it's a challenge to get real time alone, but once they're gone... plus they're generally the main thing you talk about...


----------



## loblawbobblog

*Deidre* said:


> Okay, this is all making more sense, now. I’m going to share something that I hope helps you. I had an abusive relationship and abusive men in general, provide extreme highs and lows. They’re never boring, always keeping their gf’s/wives off balance. But...they are quite passionate, thrill seeking and dramatic. At first, abusive men are charming and attentive, but they quickly turn possessive, jealous, degrading, and name calling. As the gf/wife, you wonder what’s happening, and you blame yourself. Abusers and/or narcissists are master manipulators and they are very hard to break away from. Even when you know you have to get away from them, there’s something that draws you back into the drama. The only way out is to sever all contact and don’t look back.
> 
> My husband is the opposite of all that chaos but he’s also passionate. I think your wife misses perhaps the “good” parts of that guy, the extreme highs that I mention but with you, she has stability, love, comfort and security. I’m sure she is grateful for that, and my guess is she doesn’t miss him, per se, but it was something she never resolved. If we don’t resolve past traumatic events, they don’t just magically go away. They manifest in other ways.
> 
> I will say though that while your wife is “entitled” to think about an ex, you’re also entitled to feel bad about it.
> 
> But, that is why she needs “more” from you, because she remembers those highs with him, even though the relationship was toxic. Toxic relationships are never boring, but they’re also not what love is supposed to be about. I learned that and I truly hope that your wife can let go of whatever it is from that relationship that keeps her a little stuck.
> 
> If she was pregnant by him that adds another layer and she may be doing “what if” thinking. We’re all human at the end of the day and life can be messy sometimes, especially when love is involved.


Very well put. I'm fully aware of that dynamic, but it still hurts.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> Very well put. I'm fully aware of that dynamic, but it still hurts.


I spent a good portion of my 32 year marriage comparing myself to my wife's ex-fiancé, and he was a loser to. In my case it was really all in my head and nothing from my wife. In the end TAM and her helped me finally put my mind at ease. Your situation is much more complicated, but I do understand your pain. Although you can try to step things up and be "more" of what she wants, I think there should be an attempt on her part to help you with your feelings too. Does she understand how you feel?


----------



## *Deidre*

loblawbobblog said:


> Very well put. I'm fully aware of that dynamic, but it still hurts.


Does your wife know that this hurts you? Like, really know.


----------



## loblawbobblog

*Deidre* said:


> Does your wife know that this hurts you? Like, really know.


She does now. One of the byproducts of this whole thing is that I've clearly stated my boundaries around her talking about her past and specifically this guy. I was never honest with myself or her about it and that's 100% my fault.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> She does now. One of the byproducts of this whole thing is that I've clearly stated my boundaries around her talking about her past and specifically this guy. I was never honest with myself or her about it and that's 100% my fault.


Maybe then consider finding it a blessing in disguise.


----------



## wmn1

*Deidre* said:


> Okay, this is all making more sense, now. I’m going to share something that I hope helps you. I had an abusive relationship and abusive men in general, provide extreme highs and lows. They’re never boring, always keeping their gf’s/wives off balance. But...they are quite passionate, thrill seeking and dramatic. At first, abusive men are charming and attentive, but they quickly turn possessive, jealous, degrading, and name calling. As the gf/wife, you wonder what’s happening, and you blame yourself. Abusers and/or narcissists are master manipulators and they are very hard to break away from. Even when you know you have to get away from them, there’s something that draws you back into the drama. The only way out is to sever all contact and don’t look back.
> 
> My husband is the opposite of all that chaos but he’s also passionate. I think your wife misses perhaps the “good” parts of that guy, the extreme highs that I mention but with you, she has stability, love, comfort and security. I’m sure she is grateful for that, and my guess is she doesn’t miss him, per se, but it was something she never resolved. If we don’t resolve past traumatic events, they don’t just magically go away. They manifest in other ways.
> 
> I will say though that while your wife is “entitled” to think about an ex, you’re also entitled to feel bad about it.
> 
> But, that is why she needs “more” from you, because she remembers those highs with him, even though the relationship was toxic. Toxic relationships are never boring, but they’re also not what love is supposed to be about. I learned that and I truly hope that your wife can let go of whatever it is from that relationship that keeps her a little stuck.
> 
> If she was pregnant by him that adds another layer and she may be doing “what if” thinking. We’re all human at the end of the day and life can be messy sometimes, especially when love is involved.


how does she 'need more from him' ? The guy gave her over 30 years and 4 kids and now finds this pic ? Maybe he needs more from her, such as loyalty and commitment. 

If this ex was so good, why did she leave and why did she not allow him to find someone that would be 'into him' rather than doing this late into his life ??

In the end, it's long overdue for her to be 'stuck'. This is her life with OP and they need to maximize it. Not play games like she is doing


----------



## *Deidre*

loblawbobblog said:


> She does now. One of the byproducts of this whole thing is that I've clearly stated my boundaries around her talking about her past and specifically this guy. I was never honest with myself or her about it and that's 100% my fault.


Well, I hope you both can find a way to move past this, in a better way. Things happen for reasons and this odd circumstance with the pic may help you turn the corner. But, she has to want to turn it with you. And by that I mean she needs to just love you, for you - not compare you to anyone else. No one person can be all things to another person, and it’s not fair for spouses to expect that.

Hope things get better for you both.


----------



## wmn1

loblawbobblog said:


> She does now. One of the byproducts of this whole thing is that I've clearly stated my boundaries around her talking about her past and specifically this guy. I was never honest with myself or her about it and that's 100% my fault.


so what steps are you going to take to make sure this nonsense ends ?


----------



## loblawbobblog

wmn1 said:


> so what steps are you going to take to make sure this nonsense ends ?


She removed the photo, she has not mentioned him since, only thing left is an explanation on why the photo was there in the first place. I'm going to ask her again, I know it will come off as badgering at this point, but I will approach it with the idea that I want us to be closer. That's my plan.


----------



## wmn1

loblawbobblog said:


> She removed the photo, she has not mentioned him since, only thing left is an explanation on why the photo was there in the first place. I'm going to ask her again, I know it will come off as badgering at this point, but I will approach it with the idea that I want us to be closer. That's my plan.


Good. BTW, it is never badgering if it bothers you. The circumstances don't line up but as long as you get the info you need, you will be good.

I wonder what the motives are but always be vigilant. Empty nest syndrome causes a lot of affairs and it's her job as well as yours to ensure a strong, monogamous path forward


----------



## SunCMars

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes. I feel I'm always being compared to him. I'm a very different person than him, I am the opposite of volatile, but I'm also not that passionate. It's just not in my nature. She has told me multiple times throughout our relationship that she needs more from me. Not attention, which I give plenty of, not a good house, which I provide quite well for, just...more.


The _root cause_ has been found.

Gods, the wisdom tooth hath delivered up rotten news.
Lord, it is time for a _root canal_ to rid this couple of past and present regrets.

I see a separation in your future, or deep counseling.

For her, mind you, you are fine. 

_*Both of you have lived a lie.*_

I too, have lived through that '_being compared to others_' in my relationship.
It hurts, the unfair paralleling, forever bleeds out in daily speech.

Such words, leave scars and chip away at one's marital love.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## *Deidre*

wmn1 said:


> how does she 'need more from him' ? The guy gave her over 30 years and 4 kids and now finds this pic ? Maybe he needs more from her, such as loyalty and commitment.
> 
> If this ex was so good, why did she leave and why did she not allow him to find someone that would be 'into him' rather than doing this late into his life ??
> 
> In the end, it's long overdue for her to be 'stuck'. This is her life with OP and they need to maximize it. Not play games like she is doing


I agree but I’m just offering some possible insight (I don’t know her) into some of this backstory he shared.

There comes a point that if things don’t change for the OP, and he keeps feeling like the consolation prize in his own marriage, that he needs to decide if this all worth it.


----------



## Supermoon

To be honest, I have carried around a picture of my exhusband in my purse for years. It was even a picture from our wedding day. My reason for keeping it close is that it was one of the happiest days of my life, and just because we ended doesn't erase the joy I felt in that moment. I smile when I look at it, and remind myself that there were good times and those 12 years together were not a waste. He helped me become the woman I am now. In no way does it take away from the love I feel now in my current marriage, nor do I miss my ex or want him in any way. I have explained this to my husband as well, and he doesnt seem bothered by it. If it did, it would be turfed in an instant.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Supermoon said:


> To be honest, I have carried around a picture of my exhusband in my purse for years. It was even a picture from our wedding day. My reason for keeping it close is that it was one of the happiest days of my life, and just because we ended doesn't erase the joy I felt in that moment. I smile when I look at it, and remind myself that there were good times and those 12 years together were not a waste. He helped me become the woman I am now. In no way does it take away from the love I feel now in my current marriage, nor do I miss my ex or want him in any way. I have explained this to my husband as well, and he doesnt seem bothered by it. If it did, it would be turfed in an instant.


Your husband knows your reasoning behind carrying the picture and you'd respect his feelings by getting rid of it instantly if he had a problem with it. That's all I'm asking of my wife.


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> She does now. One of the byproducts of this whole thing is that I've clearly stated my boundaries around her talking about her past and specifically this guy. I was never honest with myself or her about it and that's 100% my fault.


Ok I"m glad you see I"m trying to help you. Many times when trying to help I"m accused by a few select here as being man bashing. that is not my intention. I would like to ask...

You have set a boundary not to talk about her past or this guy..... But then you want an open honest conversation about why she has this picture. This is like a two sided coin. You can't really have it both ways. You have either shut off communication about this or you haven't.

I'm proud of you for finally being honest with her that it hurts your feelings but you have basically told her not to share her feelings or thoughts in the process.

Again. If I was your wife I wouldn't be very open at this point. As a person who loves you I wouldn't want to hurt you more and it's obvious you two are exactly an open book with each other. Further by trying to regulate her behavior you shut down honest communication.

I'm not trying to be mean.. I trying to get you to see the position your wife is now in.

ETA: Further you can like something from the past without wanting it again. Like the woman above with her photo of her wedding day.


----------



## jsmart

Wow, engagement, pregnancy/abortion, fortune saying she was going to have a son named Brandon, then her ex has a son with that name, telling you she needs “more” from you, implying she wants you to be more passionate like her ex, then a pic of her with ex while she was pregnant with his child. Holy moly. That is a lot to unpack. 

Empty nest stage is such a precarious time for many marriages. Throw in her past, and I’m getting some serious “Danger Will Robinson” vibes. You said he doesn’t have a social media presence. You have looked yourself or are you basing that on your wife’s word? Have you checked her phone? I mean REALLY check it. Very common to hide a contact under a woman’s name.

The last few bits of information that you’ve added are really disturbing. On @*Deidre* excellent post, she shared something from her pass that could give you a window into your wife’s mindset. It would still hurt but she gave us men a sneak peek into a lot of women’s mindset when it comes to guys that some might label as bad boys but are really guys who have a zero F’s given attitude along with big D energy. I hope you can find a way to express your concerns without her seeing you as weak. The sensitive guy is only successful with women in romantic comedies. In real life, women see such men as weak and unattractive.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok I"m glad you see I"m trying to help you. Many times when trying to help I"m accused by a few select here as being man bashing. that is not my intention. I would like to ask...
> 
> You have set a boundary not to talk about her past or this guy..... But then you want an open honest conversation about why she has this picture. This is like a two sided coin. You can't really have it both ways. You have either shut off communication about this or you haven't.
> 
> I'm proud of you for finally being honest with her that it hurts your feelings but you have basically told her not to share her feelings or thoughts in the process.
> 
> Again. If I was your wife I wouldn't be very open at this point. As a person who loves you I wouldn't want to hurt you more and it's obvious you two are exactly an open book with each other. Further by trying to regulate her behavior you shut down honest communication.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean.. I trying to get you to see the position your wife is now in.
> 
> ETA: Further you can like something from the past without wanting it again. Like the woman above with her photo of her wedding day.


All good points. I suppose I've dug myself a hole here. Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok I"m glad you see I"m trying to help you. Many times when trying to help I"m accused by a few select here as being man bashing. that is not my intention. I would like to ask...
> 
> You have set a boundary not to talk about her past or this guy..... But then you want an open honest conversation about why she has this picture. This is like a two sided coin. You can't really have it both ways. You have either shut off communication about this or you haven't.
> 
> I'm proud of you for finally being honest with her that it hurts your feelings but you have basically told her not to share her feelings or thoughts in the process.
> 
> Again. If I was your wife I wouldn't be very open at this point. As a person who loves you I wouldn't want to hurt you more and it's obvious you two are exactly an open book with each other. Further by trying to regulate her behavior you shut down honest communication.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean.. I trying to get you to see the position your wife is now in.
> 
> ETA: Further you can like something from the past without wanting it again. Like the woman above with her photo of her wedding day.


Damn you are good, even if you hate men, lol j/k


----------



## wmn1

*Deidre* said:


> I agree but I’m just offering some possible insight (I don’t know her) into some of this backstory he shared.
> 
> There comes a point that if things don’t change for the OP, and he keeps feeling like the consolation prize in his own marriage, that he needs to decide if this all worth it.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Thanks Deidre


----------



## *Deidre*

jsmart said:


> Wow, engagement, pregnancy/abortion, fortune saying she was going to have a son named Brandon, then her ex has a son with that name, telling you she needs “more” from you, implying she wants you to be more passionate like her ex, then a pic of her with ex while she was pregnant with his child. Holy moly. That is a lot to unpack.
> 
> Empty nest stage is such a precarious time for many marriages. Throw in her past, and I’m getting some serious “Danger Will Robinson” vibes. You said he doesn’t have a social media presence. You have looked yourself or are you basing that on your wife’s word? Have you checked her phone? I mean REALLY check it. Very common to hide a contact under a woman’s name.
> 
> The last few bits of information that you’ve added are really disturbing. On @*Deidre* excellent post, she shared something from her pass that could give you a window into your wife’s mindset. It would still hurt but she gave us men a sneak peek into a lot of women’s mindset when it comes to guys that some might label as bad boys but are really guys who have a zero F’s given attitude along with big D energy. I hope you can find a way to express your concerns without her seeing you as weak. The sensitive guy is only successful with women in romantic comedies. In real life, women see such men as weak and unattractive.


“Big D energy.” Lol I didn’t say all that. 

In truth, it’s not that women want to be with bad guys, it’s that they don’t know their own worth and that’s why they are easily swept away by manipulators, abusers, narcissistic men etc

Bad guys tend to keep away from women who respect themselves. So fathers out there with daughters - love them and help them see they are valuable. That’s where it starts.


----------



## wmn1

loblawbobblog said:


> All good points. I suppose I've dug myself a hole here. Wouldn't be the first time.


there's no hole. Your wife created the whole by bringing her ex into it. Always remember that.

Never bring the ex or anyone else into the picture. Fix $hit. She didn't do that.

How did this pic end up there ? Why not a pic of your vacation ? Your kids ? Your deceased dog ? 

That is the question.

Stop blaming yourself


----------



## Captain Obvious

loblawbobblog said:


> All good points. I suppose I've dug myself a hole here. Wouldn't be the first time.


No you haven't. Yes you have told her you don't want her talking about this guy and reminiscing about her past with him, but she still owes you an explanation of why she chose to put the pic of this guy in your bedroom where she would see it everyday, unless she never wears socks.


----------



## SunCMars

*Deidre* said:


> I agree but I’m just offering some possible insight (I don’t know her) into some of this backstory he shared.
> 
> There comes a point that if things don’t change for the OP, and he keeps feeling like the consolation prize in his own marriage, that he needs to decide if this all worth it.


Rumi...

Yes.


----------



## *Deidre*

wmn1 said:


> there's no hole. Your wife created the whole by bringing her ex into it. Always remember that.
> 
> Never bring the ex or anyone else into the picture. Fix $hit. She didn't do that.
> 
> How did this pic end up there ? Why not a pic of your vacation ? Your kids ? Your deceased dog ?
> 
> That is the question.
> 
> Stop blaming yourself


This is true. No matter what happened years ago before you OP, this guy doesn’t belong in your marriage. I can give empathy to her being involved with a bad guy but she needs to move on. Not only for you and the marriage, but for her. She is not living in the present moment, totally present. There’s nothing like healing from the past and being 100% present.


----------



## TexasMom1216

*Deidre* said:


> This is true. No matter what happened years ago before you OP, this guy doesn’t belong in your marriage. I can give empathy to her being involved with a bad guy but she needs to move on. Not only for you and the marriage, but for her. She is not living in the present moment, totally present. There’s nothing like healing from the past and being 100% present.


I agree with this too. She needs to realize she has a loving husband standing in front of her. If she need therapy to deal with her past issues, if something is bubbling up and bothering her, she can get help, either with or without him, but constantly comparing her husband to someone from the past is not loving or acceptable. 😟


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> All good points. I suppose I've dug myself a hole here. Wouldn't be the first time.


Ok so some are suggesting you treat this like a war with your wife. You hurt my feelings and made me mistrust you so now fix it.

Can I understand why your feelings are hurt absolutely. Should this be some pissing contest with your wife, I don't think so. You've stated this is the first time you told her your true feelings and she hasn't brought him up since. So seems like she loves you and has shut off a piece of her feelings as you asked. That's not to say she doesn't still have feelings cause in reality you can't control her feelings can you? In fact you've kind of shared with her you only want to share certain happy good feelings with her and the other stuff isn't welcome.

So what if she is missing her youth? what if she regrets her abortion? What if she wonders what another child might be like or if a different child would give her grandchildren. What if she wonders what it would have been like to be in a band? What if she wishes some days you'd just walk in talk her hand lead her to the bedroom and **** her good? You won't really know because you've made it unsafe to share.

So I think she is in contact with this guy? No
Do I think she wants him back? probably not
Do I think there was something to be learned by this photo? Yes
Do I think she has been telling you for years something that bothers her? Yes
Do I think empty nest is dangerous for relationships with cracks and some even without cracks? yes

So you can't go back in time you can only go forward.
What would I have done if it were my husband? I probably would have asked oh I see you have this old picture has it got you to thinking about the past? and then I'd let him talk.
Frankly if I was certain he wasn't in touch with the old girl while it hurt my feelings I probably wouldn't have said anything about it. I recognize that would be an insecurity in me. 
During other conversations that are brought up when so and so was brought up I'd probably try to draw out of him what he was thinking about use it as a information gathering. Now if he was talking about her boobs all day or something I'd tell him that it hurt my feelings and I didn't want to hear about it. But if he was talking about the time they had their electricity cut because she hadn't paid the bill.... In other words if it was an experience or something then I'd be listening to what was pulling his mind. chances are it isn't the person so much as a desire for a feeling / experience or something. I am a quick fire person and I can tell you if the discussion was centered on how great the other person was yes I'd get mad. But just general experiences not so much.

I love my husband so much. We are actually super open with each other more so than most ever are. I have a recent thread where something he shared through me for a loop but I did recognize it was a me thing and not a him thing. I recognize many people don't have what we have.... My point. I still think about my ex-fiancé from college. I never once want him back. I don't miss him but it's human nature.

I would question how does she know the ex has a son named Brandon? Where did this information come from. For instance I found out something from a relative recently and passed that info onto my husband. But if he didn't know better he might think I got this off of social media or talking to the person. I'm sure going through the old photos brought whatever this is up.

So you can't change the dynamic of a relationship overnight and it truly doesn't sound like you want to change the dynamic. You just want the information you want and no other information. I don't know how to get that information for you. If I was in your wife's position I most likely would be a lot more closed on this topic. 

You should sure keep your eyes open kind of thing. More importantly you should think about what you want. What does your wife want? What will the future look like? What does she do now? I"m much more worried about empty next for you than this picture. 

So let me as you a question or more spell out a scenario and you tell me how much of this applies to your wife.
She has kids that she raised, she toils day in day out doing mom, wife and maybe job. She has said she needs more from you. (That can be huge) but what else has she talked about? Does she think you listen to her? Ask her how her day is? Understand what her love languages are? Does she feel special (date night is a good start so point to you)?
She has some complaints but they don't seem heard or not taken seriously cause she only mentions them once or twice a year (but for 10 years nothing changes so why keep complaining) in fact she may have stopped complaining. At one point the sex dipped you brought that to her attention pointing out you expected sex, or a clean house, or dinner on the table...... He children are coming into their own. Well maybe they will be going to college. She starts to look forward. What will the rest of her life look like? Will she continue to toil everyday? I mean men often retire but women are often expected to toil on. Keep doing all the housework or all the cooking and such. She looks ahead once the kids are done with school she could change.... she could try out the world. She could start living for herself. She could pick where to go on vacation. She could have passion. Life could be hers...... All she has to do is walk away.

Not saying any of that is your wife. But is any of it your wife?


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so some are suggesting you treat this like a war with your wife. You hurt my feelings and made me mistrust you so now fix it.
> 
> Can I understand why your feelings are hurt absolutely. Should this be some pissing contest with your wife, I don't think so. You've stated this is the first time you told her your true feelings and she hasn't brought him up since. So seems like she loves you and has shut off a piece of her feelings as you asked. That's not to say she doesn't still have feelings cause in reality you can't control her feelings can you? In fact you've kind of shared with her you only want to share certain happy good feelings with her and the other stuff isn't welcome.
> 
> So what if she is missing her youth? what if she regrets her abortion? What if she wonders what another child might be like or if a different child would give her grandchildren. What if she wonders what it would have been like to be in a band? What if she wishes some days you'd just walk in talk her hand lead her to the bedroom and **** her good? You won't really know because you've made it unsafe to share.
> 
> So I think she is in contact with this guy? No
> Do I think she wants him back? probably not
> Do I think there was something to be learned by this photo? Yes
> Do I think she has been telling you for years something that bothers her? Yes
> Do I think empty nest is dangerous for relationships with cracks and some even without cracks? yes
> 
> So you can't go back in time you can only go forward.
> What would I have done if it were my husband? I probably would have asked oh I see you have this old picture has it got you to thinking about the past? and then I'd let him talk.
> Frankly if I was certain he wasn't in touch with the old girl while it hurt my feelings I probably wouldn't have said anything about it. I recognize that would be an insecurity in me.
> During other conversations that are brought up when so and so was brought up I'd probably try to draw out of him what he was thinking about use it as a information gathering. Now if he was talking about her boobs all day or something I'd tell him that it hurt my feelings and I didn't want to hear about it. But if he was talking about the time they had their electricity cut because she hadn't paid the bill.... In other words if it was an experience or something then I'd be listening to what was pulling his mind. chances are it isn't the person so much as a desire for a feeling / experience or something. I am a quick fire person and I can tell you if the discussion was centered on how great the other person was yes I'd get mad. But just general experiences not so much.
> 
> I love my husband so much. We are actually super open with each other more so than most ever are. I have a recent thread where something he shared through me for a loop but I did recognize it was a me thing and not a him thing. I recognize many people don't have what we have.... My point. I still think about my ex-fiancé from college. I never once want him back. I don't miss him but it's human nature.
> 
> I would question how does she know the ex has a son named Brandon? Where did this information come from. For instance I found out something from a relative recently and passed that info onto my husband. But if he didn't know better he might think I got this off of social media or talking to the person. I'm sure going through the old photos brought whatever this is up.
> 
> So you can't change the dynamic of a relationship overnight and it truly doesn't sound like you want to change the dynamic. You just want the information you want and no other information. I don't know how to get that information for you. If I was in your wife's position I most likely would be a lot more closed on this topic.
> 
> You should sure keep your eyes open kind of thing. More importantly you should think about what you want. What does your wife want? What will the future look like? What does she do now? I"m much more worried about empty next for you than this picture.
> 
> So let me as you a question or more spell out a scenario and you tell me how much of this applies to your wife.
> She has kids that she raised, she toils day in day out doing mom, wife and maybe job. She has said she needs more from you. (That can be huge) but what else has she talked about? Does she think you listen to her? Ask her how her day is? Understand what her love languages are? Does she feel special (date night is a good start so point to you)?
> She has some complaints but they don't seem heard or not taken seriously cause she only mentions them once or twice a year (but for 10 years nothing changes so why keep complaining) in fact she may have stopped complaining. At one point the sex dipped you brought that to her attention pointing out you expected sex, or a clean house, or dinner on the table...... He children are coming into their own. Well maybe they will be going to college. She starts to look forward. What will the rest of her life look like? Will she continue to toil everyday? I mean men often retire but women are often expected to toil on. Keep doing all the housework or all the cooking and such. She looks ahead once the kids are done with school she could change.... she could try out the world. She could start living for herself. She could pick where to go on vacation. She could have passion. Life could be hers...... All she has to do is walk away.
> 
> Not saying any of that is your wife. But is any of it your wife?


I want to hear her explanation for why the picture was there. Aside from that, I don't want to hear about her ex anymore. I don't think that's a mixed message nor unreasonable. She knows the kid's name because about 25 years ago she did contact him. She was fully transparent about that and I was fine with it. They did not meet in person, he lives 2000 miles away, even back then. As for household chores, we're by far the most egalitarian couple I know of. I'm sure she's thinking ahead to the empty nest years, as am I, we've talked about it and our shared anxiety over it. We do have some communication issues which I'm trying to resolve. I'm in a different place on that topic than she is, I'm the one reaching out, she's the one puzzled by her suddenly inquisitive and chatty husband. She's told me flat out she doesn't like talking about our relationship, and that my newfound eagerness to communicate is "not the man I married." She said it jokingly but I got the message.


----------



## Anastasia6

loblawbobblog said:


> I want to hear her explanation for why the picture was there. Aside from that, I don't want to hear about her ex anymore. I don't think that's a mixed message nor unreasonable. She knows the kid's name because about 25 years ago she did contact him. She was fully transparent about that and I was fine with it. They did not meet in person, he lives 2000 miles away, even back then. As for household chores, we're by far the most egalitarian couple I know of. I'm sure she's thinking ahead to the empty nest years, as am I, we've talked about it and our shared anxiety over it. We do have some communication issues which I'm trying to resolve. I'm in a different place on that topic than she is, I'm the one reaching out, she's the one puzzled by her suddenly inquisitive and chatty husband. She's told me flat out she doesn't like talking about our relationship, and that my newfound eagerness to communicate is "not the man I married." She said it jokingly but I got the message.


So kudo's for trying to open up the relationship communication lines. That is usually the best way to ensure longevity. I can see as you've told her you don't want to hear about the ex and it seems that you won't from what you've said. I hope you get your answers.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Anastasia6 said:


> So kudo's for trying to open up the relationship communication lines. That is usually the best way to ensure longevity. I can see as you've told her you don't want to hear about the ex and it seems that you won't from what you've said. I hope you get your answers.


Thanks. I really appreciate your thoughtful responses.


----------



## Quad73

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes. I feel I'm always being compared to him. I'm a very different person than him, I am the opposite of volatile, but I'm also not that passionate. It's just not in my nature. She has told me multiple times throughout our relationship that she needs more from me. Not attention, which I give plenty of, not a good house, which I provide quite well for, just...more.


You might get passionate about -this-.
A potential double win if you approach it correctly.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Quad73 said:


> You might get passionate about -this-.
> A potential double win if you approach it correctly.


We have good, occasionally great, sex. But I'm pretty low energy in everyday life, that's just my nature. I can't manufacture excitement.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I want to hear her explanation for why the picture was there. Aside from that, I don't want to hear about her ex anymore. I don't think that's a mixed message nor unreasonable. She knows the kid's name because about 25 years ago she did contact him. She was fully transparent about that and I was fine with it. They did not meet in person, he lives 2000 miles away, even back then. As for household chores, we're by far the most egalitarian couple I know of. I'm sure she's thinking ahead to the empty nest years, as am I, we've talked about it and our shared anxiety over it. We do have some communication issues which I'm trying to resolve. I'm in a different place on that topic than she is, I'm the one reaching out, she's the one puzzled by her suddenly inquisitive and chatty husband. She's told me flat out she doesn't like talking about our relationship, and that my newfound eagerness to communicate is "not the man I married." She said it jokingly but I got the message.


Something similar happened when I started making changes in advance of the impending empty nest. My wife definitely noticed the difference. I didn't just start talking about things though. I also took actions. Really tried to be the best husband possible. And I wasn't at all bad to begin with, I just tried to take it to the next level. That made her take notice and made it less awkward to start talking about things we hadn't spent much time on before. She already knew something was different, so new discussion topics weren't as much of a surprise. It made her a bit uncomfortable at first, but I openly expressed my concerns about the coming change in our marriage and that it shouldn't be taken lightly. Once she saw the positive effects on our relationship and her personally some of the resistance came down. Now I really wish I would have made these changes earlier, but the timing and life situation just wasn't right for it. Hopefully you and your wife can successfully navigate through the changes.


----------



## ElOtro

*Deidre* said:


> Does your wife know that this hurts you? Like, really know.


IMO and just IMO, it´s not about if she knows it hurts him as if it is about an aribitrarious / inner / individual feeling with no basis outside his own mind. 
Or as if the meaning of facts is given for what she individually gives importance or not.
IMO and just IMO is mainly about if they share a common view, a criteria on what _should_ be hurtful.


----------



## Quad73

loblawbobblog said:


> We have good, occasionally great, sex. But I'm pretty low energy in everyday life, that's just my nature. I can't manufacture excitement.


I wasn't referring to sex or excitement. Your passion here - wanting her for yourself, banning this ex lover from your bedroom, being passionate about this issue. It's what she's been saying she usually doesn't see in you. She's almost given you license to be passionate about this issue.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Quad73 said:


> I wasn't referring to sex or excitement. Your passion here - wanting her for yourself, banning this ex lover from your bedroom, being passionate about this issue. It's what she's been saying she usually doesn't see in you. She's almost given you license to be passionate about this issue.


I see. Well, that's not how she's been taking it so far.


----------



## A18S37K14H18

loblawbobblog said:


> She removed the photo, she has not mentioned him since, only thing left is an explanation on why the photo was there in the first place. I'm going to ask her again, I know it will come off as badgering at this point, but I will approach it with the idea that I want us to be closer. That's my plan.


OP

Do you really think you can believe what she will tell you about this when you bring it up with her again?

I have no idea but of course I don't know either of you.

I just know you said she was evasive and you thought her explaination was BS when you talked with her about this before.

I hope she won't continue being evasive and she decides to be honest with you.

Being in limbo about all of this for the rest of your life really isn't a tenable long term solution for you if she continues to be evasive.


----------



## *Deidre*

ElOtro said:


> IMO and just IMO, it´s not about if she knows it hurts him as if it is about an aribitrarious / inner / individual feeling with no basis outside his own mind.
> Or as if the meaning of facts is given for what she individually gives importance or not.
> IMO and just IMO is mainly about if they share a common view, a criteria on what _should_ be hurtful.


This is an insightful point. I think too that it's important to not lose ourselves in our marriages. It's one thing to sacrifice for one another, that is a part of marriage but that doesn't mean we lose our entire identity as individuals. 

It's easy for people to get lost in relationships, though - for 'the greater good,' or to 'keep the peace,' and that's not healthy, in my opinion. I'm hopeful for the OP and his wife, but she has to let go of ghosts of boyfriends past, and embrace her present life, fully. Or at least be willing to confide in her husband. And OP needs to know that his worth doesn't depend on if that happens or not.

I think a lot of why people hold back in relationships is fear. Fear of upsetting their partner, fear of the partner leaving. Fear of being treated differently after the truth is out. On some level, OP's wife is afraid of something, and OP is also afraid of something. I think if they want the marriage to be a forever marriage, they have to work through their fears. To me, this is all cloaked in fear...like so many dilemmas in life. 😌


----------



## PieceOfSky

TexasMom1216 said:


> They've been together long enough, he should be able to tell if she's lying because something is up…


Detecting lies is difficult, especially when both parties want to believe them. 

Time together building and giving away trust can make it all the more difficult.


----------



## Slow Hand

They were in contact 25 years ago? Interesting, DNA the kids. Where’s Gus? 😬🤫


----------



## sokillme

You guys have all pontificated about what it means an all that. I say check the social media.

Seems to be he is the one who got away, so she has a picture of him in her sock drawer, and most of the time with people like that, that is where the expend their emotional energy.


----------



## manwithnoname

sokillme said:


> You guys have all pontificated about what it means an all that. I say check the social media.
> 
> Seems to be he is the one who got away, so she has a picture of him in her sock drawer, and most of the time with people like that, that is where the expend their emotional energy.


If she keeps that picture close by, she has at the very least searched him on social media.

At the very least.


----------



## ElOtro

*Deidre* said:


> This is an insightful point. I think too that it's important to not lose ourselves in our marriages. It's one thing to sacrifice for one another, that is a part of marriage but that doesn't mean we lose our entire identity as individuals.
> 
> It's easy for people to get lost in relationships, though - for 'the greater good,' or to 'keep the peace,' and that's not healthy, in my opinion. I'm hopeful for the OP and his wife, but she has to let go of ghosts of boyfriends past, and embrace her present life, fully. Or at least be willing to confide in her husband. And OP needs to know that his worth doesn't depend on if that happens or not.
> 
> I think a lot of why people hold back in relationships is fear. Fear of upsetting their partner, fear of the partner leaving. Fear of being treated differently after the truth is out. On some level, OP's wife is afraid of something, and OP is also afraid of something. I think if they want the marriage to be a forever marriage, they have to work through their fears. To me, this is all cloaked in fear...like so many dilemmas in life. 😌


Blame it to my poor English, not my first language and neither the one spoken here.
But you seemed to agree with what I wasn´t saying. Sorry, my fault.
I don´t have important objections to your view. But it´s not my one.

Making myself more clear may become a TJ and bore everyone.
Thank you for your aswer, anyhow.


----------



## Quad73

loblawbobblog said:


> I see. Well, that's not how she's been taking it so far.


Yes, as I said, if you approach further disagreement and the talk getting to the root cause a certain way. 

You need to choose an approach that tells her you're passionate about the -marriage-, you will even fight hard for it when you know you're in the right, vs it being about -your concern-, which she will read as you being pissed off, controlling and maybe even weak.

She said she's been longing to see more of that fire in you. Doesn't mean she won't argue her point of view or possibly lie about the meaning of the photo, but the end result will be new respect and passion for you if you take the right approach here. 

Make your arguments about this from a pro-marriage perspective; your fight for a better marriage.


----------



## Blondilocks

Supermoon said:


> To be honest, I have carried around a picture of my exhusband in my purse for years. It was even a picture from our wedding day. My reason for keeping it close is that it was one of the happiest days of my life, and just because we ended doesn't erase the joy I felt in that moment. I smile when I look at it, and remind myself that there were good times and those 12 years together were not a waste. He helped me become the woman I am now. In no way does it take away from the love I feel now in my current marriage, nor do I miss my ex or want him in any way. *I have explained this to my husband as well, and he doesnt seem bothered by it. If it did, it would be turfed in an instant.*


This is just so sad. That it would take your husband having to actually complain about it before you would 'turf' it. 

Any man whose wife carries around a pic of her and her ex-husband on their wedding day is a man who would have a ready made excuse if he shtooped the office mattress. I know, I wouldn't blame him.

edit typo


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> This is just so sad. That it would take your husband having to actually complain about it before you would 'turf' it.
> 
> Any man whose wife carries around a pic of her and her elx-husband on their wedding day is a man who would have a ready made excuse if he shtooped the office mattress. I know, I wouldn't blame him.


mmm.... I agree, a bit strange, but if the husband doesn't mind...


----------



## jsmart

Hey @loblawbobblog have you done a deep search for this guy on social media or are you going by your wife telling you he doesn't have a social media presence ? Have you done a deep dive on your wife's phone to make sure she hasn't recently reached out to him again? 

@Supermoon not to thread jack but it is actually on the same issue OP's dealing with; I'm with Blondi. Why would it take your husband having to say something for you to remove a pic of your wedding day with your ex for you to get rid of it or at the very least put away in some box as a stow away? I doubt any man is really ok with his wife having such a picture on her all the time. Him not saying anything could be him not wanting to come across has controlling. Just reading about you gushing about your wedding day made me uncomfortable for your husband and I don't even know you guys.


----------



## *Deidre*

ElOtro said:


> Blame it to my poor English, not my first language and neither the one spoken here.
> But you seemed to agree with what I wasn´t saying. Sorry, my fault.
> I don´t have important objections to your view. But it´s not my one.
> 
> Making myself more clear may become a TJ and bore everyone.
> Thank you for your aswer, anyhow.


No worries, I understand what you were saying. I just went off on a tangent 😌


----------



## BigDaddyNY

jsmart said:


> Hey @loblawbobblog have you done a deep search for this guy on social media or are you going by your wife telling you he doesn't have a social media presence ? Have you done a deep dive on your wife's phone to make sure she hasn't recently reached out to him again?
> 
> @Supermoon not to thread jack but it is actually on the same issue OP's dealing with; I'm with Blondi. Why would it take your husband having to say something for you to remove a pic of your wedding day with your ex for you to get rid of it or at the very least put away in some box as a stow away? I doubt any man is really ok with his wife having such a picture on her all the time. Him not saying anything could be him not wanting to come across has controlling. Just reading about you gushing about your wedding day made me uncomfortable for your husband and I don't even know you guys.


OP has said HE did an extensive search on social media and found nothing and is confident she has had no recent contact with him.


----------



## jsmart

sokillme said:


> You guys have all pontificated about what it means an all that. I say check the social media.
> 
> Seems to be he is the one who got away, so she has a picture of him in her sock drawer, and most of the time with people like that, that is where the expend their emotional energy.


The one that got away is the vibe I’m getting too. With her carrying his baby, he must have been a complete waste as a man for her to end things but that didn’t seem to have stopped her from still having strong feelings for him all these years later. The married life they’ve lived and the 3 boys they’ve successfully raised together seems to pale in comparison to the Brandon she could have had and the life she could have had with her ex druggie fiancé.


----------



## *Deidre*

She’s just never processed her feelings, it sounds like. so she could be stuck back in time over this guy, yet wanting to have a good life with OP. Traumatic pasts don’t just vanish over time on their own - you have to process things to get past them.

Honestly, she needs counseling because the status quo and ignoring the elephant in the room isn’t fair to the OP.


----------



## Anastasia6

jsmart said:


> The one that got away is the vibe I’m getting too. With her carrying his baby, he must have been a complete waste as a man for her to end things but that didn’t seem to have stopped her from still having strong feelings for him all these years later. The married life they’ve lived and the 3 boys they’ve successfully raised together seems to pale in comparison to the Brandon she could have had and the life she could have had with her ex druggie fiancé.


May or may not have anything to do with the guy... People tend to be self centered. Chances are it has to do with the aborted child or a thought of how life might be different. Or how she used to be more spontaneous or what have you.

There is a chance the ex has cleaned up his act and been in touch but I doubt it. People tend to attribute everything to the person in the photo. It is usually more about the person holding the photo. At this stage in life it is common to rethink your life and wonder how things might be different past or future. It's why empty nest or mid-life is so dangerous. People tend to reflect and some decide to make changes, drastic changes.


----------



## oldtruck

Supermoon said:


> To be honest, I have carried around a picture of my exhusband in my purse for years. It was even a picture from our wedding day. My reason for keeping it close is that it was one of the happiest days of my life, and just because we ended doesn't erase the joy I felt in that moment. I smile when I look at it, and remind myself that there were good times and those 12 years together were not a waste. He helped me become the woman I am now. In no way does it take away from the love I feel now in my current marriage, nor do I miss my ex or want him in any way. I have explained this to my husband as well, and he doesnt seem bothered by it. If it did, it would be turfed in an instant.


You are a wife that will throw an object from her past if it bothers her current man.
Unfortunately many wives will not take such a step to make their husbands feel more secure.


----------



## ABHale

loblawbobblog said:


> So I found this picture a few weeks ago, I confronted her and she gave me the BS story of it falling out and into the drawer. I asked her to put the picture back in the old photo box in the garage. I waited a week and asked her if she had done that, she said she hadn't yet. I then told her I need that picture out of our bedroom and walked out of the room. She has since put the photo back in the garage, but I still don't have my answer as to why it was there.
> 
> I have to wonder at many of the posts here saying they'd be nonchalant about their spouse keeping a picture of their ex in personal and readily accessible place like a sock drawer. Would you folks really not care? I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. Thanks for all the responses anyways, whether I agreed with them or not.


I have no pictures of my exs. Why would I unless I still had a thing for them.

Could your wife be in contact with this ex?

Does she consider him the one that got away?

Does she still have feelings for him?

Her excuse was utter crap, have a conversation and tell her this. Then ask the questions.


----------



## ABHale

loblawbobblog said:


> It was a volatile relationship, she became pregnant and they got engaged, he was an addict and got physical with her and she broke it off and got an abortion. I know way too many details about their relationship, she talked about him nonstop when we first met. That is an added wrinkle to all this, the dude is a sore spot for me. He lives 2000 miles away, I've checked phone logs and he has no internet presence at all. I'm pretty confident she is not in contact with him. My point in all this is that if there's something in our relationship that she's unhappy about, that may be causing her to inappropriately focus on this past relationship, I'd like to know so we can talk it out.


I disagree that it is something in your relationship.

How could your relationship be so bad that she is longing for an ex that beat her?

She is longing for the image she has in her head of her first love. She never really got over him.


----------



## Supermoon

jsmart said:


> Hey @loblawbobblog have you done a deep search for this guy on social media or are you going by your wife telling you he doesn't have a social media presence ? Have you done a deep dive on your wife's phone to make sure she hasn't recently reached out to him again?
> 
> @Supermoon not to thread jack but it is actually on the same issue OP's dealing with; I'm with Blondi. Why would it take your husband having to say something for you to remove a pic of your wedding day with your ex for you to get rid of it or at the very least put away in some box as a stow away? I doubt any man is really ok with his wife having such a picture on her all the time. Him not saying anything could be him not wanting to come across has controlling. Just reading about you gushing about your wedding day made me uncomfortable for your husband and I don't even know you guys.


I guess I should say first of all, it ended up there because my 8 yr old son (from ex marriage) found it amongst old photos and brought it to me, saying how good we both looked. I then explained to him what I said earlier, saying how happy we were back then and what a wonderful day it was. I told him sometimes things change but if we remember the good instead of the bad it will keep us from building resentment and becoming bitter. My husband knows that I always took the high road with my ex, despite being cheated on and taken for a fool. It reminds me to not make the same mistakes over again, or take what I have now for granted. I never wanted to "regret" my former relationship, because it came with many blessings, including my two beautiful boys. My husband and I talk about happy times with our exes, to understand more who we are and where we came from. Neither of us deleted photos on FB of our former spouses for example, because it was still a snapshot of our lives at that time, whether good or bad. I have lots of other photos too, not just me and my ex.. we all have a past, and I just believe it should be celebrated, not forgotten.


----------



## JWakk

Anastasia6 said:


> She wants you to be more?
> 
> So does she mean absolutely positively obsessed and desirous of her AKA passionate?
> 
> or what do you know what this more is?


So basically she is getting everything a marriage should be and more but still wants more! Well you need to ask her what more is she going to give to you because this is what she should be thinking as she should be focused on what she can do for you not the other way around. A woman should be an asset to your life not the other way around because if they are like her then a marriage can't bring happiness or contentment for either party involved. You know the best thing to do but have you the courage and strength to do it.


----------



## JWakk

wmn1 said:


> yes this !!


You see I was never on the other side I knew their was more to this and told him so I have studied hard about relationship and the Red Flags that appear seemingly out of the blue but they are never out of thhe blue their are always signs if your paying attention. So many men and women on REDIT and other sites have the same blind opinion. "We were so happy up until yesterday then II found out she/he has been cheating for the past number of years!!! their was know sign what so ever""" Yes there was but he was too involved in his love for her but she was just good at pretending. This is virtually the way they all start and the shock that hits them and their so called perfect marriage.
As soon as this guy said she lied about the photo I knew where this was going and my probing brought more truth to light.
I am 100% she has been in touch with the Ex she is hiding it either by having another phone or on social media, Remember she was supposed to post that photo on facebook I think he said but then she changed her mind, Yes because they have been in contact and he probably want to meet up to discuss the past in a hotel bedroom of course they are just hiding him under maybe a females name.


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## TexasMom1216

OP, how are you doing today? Any news? I hope things are getting better.


----------



## SunCMars

jsmart said:


> Wow, engagement, pregnancy/abortion, *fortune saying she was going to have a son named Brandon*, then her ex has a son with that name.


@loblawbobblog

Think back to that time with the Fortune Teller...

Was she with the Ex at that time?

Ask her if she ever mentioned this incident and the name, Brandon..

If he somehow knew about this encounter with the Fortune Teller, could he purposely have picked this Brandon name for his son?
For whatever the reason, he chose the name?


----------



## SunCMars

The picture was found in her sock drawer.

OK.

Could you imagine the 'hubbub' here on TAM, had she kept the picture of her ex lover in the drawer where her panties were kept. 

Just thinkin'

Um.


_The Typist-_


----------



## TexasMom1216

It's not nice of me, but it still makes me laugh a little that it was with her socks. I mean, name a less sexy article of clothing than socks...

But it's still a problem and I certainly don't want to minimize the OP's situation or pain.


----------



## jsmart

JWakk said:


> I am 100% she has been in touch with the Ex she is hiding it either by having another phone or on social media, Remember she was supposed to post that photo on facebook I think he said but then she changed her mind, Yes because they have been in contact and he probably want to meet up to discuss the past in a hotel bedroom of course they are just hiding him under maybe a females name.


That is speculation that is too early to say but if I’m being honest, I too suspect they have been in contact recently. Doesn’t mean it was to plan a hook up. Could be to have another closure conversation or to just see how he is doing. Everything OP has shared tells me his wife has continued to hold a candle for her ex. 

I really hope you’re wrong because OP’s hurt is already jumping off the page to me. Not sure he can take much more.


----------



## loblawbobblog

SunCMars said:


> @loblawbobblog
> 
> Think back to that time with the Fortune Teller...
> 
> Was she with the Ex at that time?
> 
> Ask her if she ever mentioned this incident and the name, Brandon..
> 
> If he somehow knew about this encounter with the Fortune Teller, could he purposely have picked this Brandon name for his son?
> For whatever the reason, he chose the name?


She was not with him at the time. I have no idea if he knew of the fortune teller encounter.


----------



## ABHale

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's not nice of me, but it still makes me laugh a little that it was with her socks. I mean, name a less sexy article of clothing than socks...
> 
> But it's still a problem and I certainly don't want to minimize the OP's situation or pain.


It could be socks, underwear, stockings and etc. he could have just left the rest out. With what he has posted, I say he didn’t mention everything that was in the drawer.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

The only reason I would single out a photo and put in my sock or underwear drawer, would be so I could look at that photo whenever I wanted to each day. It would be a special photo to me whether a loved one or a pet for example. Photos that mean nothing wouldn't end up in my drawer. This photo must be important to her because she wouldn't have took this from the album and placed it in her drawer otherwise.


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## damo7

My partner has a picture up of her deceased ex boyfriend from over a decade ago. They never had kids, never married and were together about 2 years. I know his death really cut her up, and the photo doesn't bother me.


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## happiness27

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


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## loblawbobblog

happiness27 said:


> Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


She can have her thoughts, I'm not trying to police that. However, I'm not comfortable with her having a photo of her and her ex in a readily available place in our bedroom. I don't think that's unreasonable. She'd feel the same if I had a photo of me and my ex in my sock drawer.


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## ConanHub

happiness27 said:


> Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


LoL!

If I had a picture of an ex anywhere in my house, Mrs. C would bisect it with a katana.


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## jsmart

We have another thread with similar situation of a wife that appears to still carry a candle for an ex. At least in OP's case the OM lives very far away. The other thread that guy is a mile away. I still the OP needs to be weary of his wife. The empty nest stage is really a rough time for many marriages. That is wife is probably reminiscing about her past with ex and maybe playing what if scenarios in her head. It's impossible for a husband to compete with an exaggerated memory of a past lover. The other thread the husband is talking about marriage counseling, which is a waste in his situation but in OP's case, I think their marriage can use some help because his wife's head is not all in on their marriage. She seems to have carved out a piece of her heart just for her ex, which is unfair to OP.


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## Rob_1

happiness27 said:


> Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


Jesus, dude or dudette? are you for real? that advice is so lame that even my daughters (early twenties) after I told them about the situation and your comment, laugh about your pathetic comment. I guess that when your partner decides to do an ex, it will be for all times sake's, and you'll let your partner have his/her memories relieved one more time.


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## re16

happiness27 said:


> Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


I assume it is ok to cheat also? C'mon. Feelings are one thing... A picture in your sock drawer... totally uncalled for. Pining over an ex is not ok, and that is exactly what is happening.


----------



## Night Owl1

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


I would let it go…. It’s no biggie. What’s amusing is after ALL these years, you’re still feeling a little insecure or jealous. That’s kinda sweet since y’all have been married 25+ years! Most guys wouldn’t think twice about it. Anyhow, I’d just tell her…”hey! Look what I found putting your socks away…”. Give it back to her. We’re all entitled to a history. After all, she’s your girl and that’s what matters most! Go do something fun! Life’s too short to worry yourself over something like that. ❤❤❤


----------



## *Deidre*

In the HBO series “Big Little Lies,” Reese Witherspoon plays Madeline who has a great house, loving husband, lives on the beach but is still upset over her ex husband walking out on her ten years prior. Her current husband starts to feel like her consolation prize but she tells him that she loves him and to not think that way.
She said “It’s possible for me to love you with all my heart and...”

Her husband finishes her sentence with...

“...but still be hurt over your ex.”

This thread reminds me of that scene and perhaps, there’s some truth to that? I don’t know.😌


----------



## Parallax857

I know it's possible to love someone and still have feelings for an ex. My wife and I have an amazing marriage. When we first met, I still had feelings for my last GF. My wife knew about it; I didn't hide anything. She made space for it and eventually those feelings faded away. 

Much further back in my life, there was someone who was very special. She and my wife are the two loves of my life. That earlier relationship ended a long time ago. I don't have feelings for the ex in the sense of wanting to get back together. Just some lovely memories of what was once very special. There are aspects of that special time that I miss but we were young and in love in a first love sort of way. There was an innocence and beauty that's different from mature love. I don't think it says anything about my marriage that there's a part of my heart that misses that. It's just a part of my past. It says nothing about my wife and in no way detracts from what we have, which is far greater than that earlier experience when viewed from a mature perspective. It's easy to be young and in love, to have love to burn in fact, until burn it we do and it all falls apart. It's hard to maintain love day after day, year after year, and for things to get better and more intimate over time. 

If my wife has similar feelings for someone from her past, so what. We don't own each other. We came together as whole and independent people and have chosen to put our lives together. That's beautiful and it stands on its own. I don't need to be everything to her and she doesn't need to be everythig to me. We can have special memories and still choose each other. 

I think it makes sense to ask your wife again why the photo was in the drawer. To admit you're feeling insecure (that's what it is and it's healthy to share your vulnerability). To say that her explanation doesn't ring true for you and that you just want to know the truth, whatever it is. That you'd rather she be honest than worry about your feelings. And then, if she admits to some fondness for the ex, thank her for her honest and let it go. It's meaningless. If she continues to insist it wound up there by mistake, let it go. Either she's being honest or, for some reason, isn't able to. If the latter, it's not about you but rather her own insecurities. 

A few years ago I was going through some old papers in a drawer and I came across a topless photo of an ex. I'm not sure why I saved it. I had and have zero feelings for that one. She was beautiful but insane. Not one that I look back upon with any fondness. Perhaps just as a reminder of how I was once young and attractive enough to have a girlfriend who looked like that. Knowing it was in a place where it would turn up if I died before my wife, and not wanting her or our son to come across it, I told her I found it, asked her if she wanted to see it (she didn't) and shredded it. 

The past is the past. As long as it's dead, it's meaningless. Unless you have evidence she's holding a candle for someone else, set it aside. A photo in a sock drawer is not, in and of itself, evidence she's holding a candle. Just a reason to have a conversation. If you can't get to a place of trust, I recommend couples counseling. At the end of the day it's important to have confidence that she's with you because you're the one she wants to be with.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Parallax857 said:


> I know it's possible to love someone and still have feelings for an ex. My wife and I have an amazing marriage. When we first met, I still had feelings for my last GF. My wife knew about it; I didn't hide anything. She made space for it and eventually those feelings faded away.
> 
> Much further back in my life, there was someone who was very special. She and my wife are the two loves of my life. That earlier relationship ended a long time ago. I don't have feelings for the ex in the sense of wanting to get back together. Just some lovely memories of what was once very special. There are aspects of that special time that I miss but we were young and in love in a first love sort of way. There was an innocence and beauty that's different from mature love. I don't think it says anything about my marriage that there's a part of my heart that misses that. It's just a part of my past. It says nothing about my wife and in no way detracts from what we have, which is far greater than that earlier experience when viewed from a mature perspective. It's easy to be young and in love, to have love to burn in fact, until burn it we do and it all falls apart. It's hard to maintain love day after day, year after year, and for things to get better and more intimate over time.
> 
> If my wife has similar feelings for someone from her past, so what. We don't own each other. We came together as whole and independent people and have chosen to put our lives together. That's beautiful and it stands on its own. I don't need to be everything to her and she doesn't need to be everythig to me. We can have special memories and still choose each other.
> 
> I think it makes sense to ask your wife again why the photo was in the drawer. To admit you're feeling insecure (that's what it is and it's healthy to share your vulnerability). To say that her explanation doesn't ring true for you and that you just want to know the truth, whatever it is. That you'd rather she be honest than worry about your feelings. And then, if she admits to some fondness for the ex, thank her for her honest and let it go. It's meaningless. If she continues to insist it wound up there by mistake, let it go. Either she's being honest or, for some reason, isn't able to. If the latter, it's not about you but rather her own insecurities.
> 
> A few years ago I was going through some old papers in a drawer and I came across a topless photo of an ex. I'm not sure why I saved it. I had and have zero feelings for that one. She was beautiful but insane. Not one that I look back upon with any fondness. Perhaps just as a reminder of how I was once young and attractive enough to have a girlfriend who looked like that. Knowing it was in a place where it would turn up if I died before my wife, and not wanting her or our son to come across it, I told her I found it, asked her if she wanted to see it (she didn't) and shredded it.
> 
> The past is the past. As long as it's dead, it's meaningless. Unless you have evidence she's holding a candle for someone else, set it aside. A photo in a sock drawer is not, in and of itself, evidence she's holding a candle. Just a reason to have a conversation. If you can't get to a place of trust, I recommend couples counseling. At the end of the day it's important to have confidence that she's with you because you're the one she wants to be with.


Thank you for this response, it's very helpful and wise. I'll be honest and say my wife is my first love, my first relationship. I'm not her first love nor first relationship and it's that disparity that's causing this insecurity. It's my issue, I need to deal with it, it's not fair to her. Thanks again.


----------



## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> Thank you for this response, it's very helpful and wise. I'll be honest and say my wife is my first love, my first relationship. I'm not her first love nor first relationship and it's that disparity that's causing this insecurity. It's my issue, I need to deal with it, it's not fair to her. Thanks again.


Thanks for your candor. It's human to be insecure. The truth is we all are. If the guy in your wife's past treated her badly, as you've described, I doubt she considers anyone other than you the love of her life. Might be worth it for you to get into therapy by yourself to deal with your insecurities, separate and apart from any couples counseling. 

I carried insecurity for much of my life. In my late thirties I got into really intense counseling. Did over six years and it was a great investment. For me, better than college or law school. It left me with so much more space to live my life. During counseling, I went from feeling that I needed to be everything to whatever woman I was with to realizing that I can only be me, and that it's enough to be me. A woman can remember aspects of other relationships fondly and still choose me and I don't need to feel insecure if there are ways someone gave her something that I can't (or won't). No one is perfect. At the end of the day, we choose a spouse from among the many less than perfect potential partners available. Sounds to me like you're the far better man and partner than her ex. He beat her. She aborted his child for a reason. She chose you. You have nothing to be ashamed of and every reason to feel good about the life you and your wife have built together.


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## ConanHub

I care for a couple of my exes. They were very nice women.

I still don't have pictures of them laying around anywhere.😉


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## loblawbobblog

Parallax857 said:


> Thanks for your candor. It's human to be insecure. The truth is we all are. If the guy in your wife's past treated her badly, as you've described, I doubt she considers anyone other than you the love of her life. Might be worth it for you to get into therapy by yourself to deal with your insecurities, separate and apart from any couples counseling.
> 
> I carried insecurity for much of my life. In my late thirties I got into really intense counseling. Did over six years and it was a great investment. For me, better than college or law school. It left me with so much more space to live my life. During counseling, I went from feeling that I needed to be everything to whatever woman I was with to realizing that I can only be me, and that it's enough to be me. A woman can remember aspects of other relationships fondly and still choose me and I don't need to feel insecure if there are ways someone gave her something that I can't (or won't). No one is perfect. At the end of the day, we choose a spouse from among the many less than perfect potential partners available. Sounds to me like you're the far better man and partner than her ex. He beat her. She aborted his child for a reason. She chose you. You have nothing to be ashamed of and every reason to feel good about the life you and your wife have built together.


I really needed to hear that, thank you.


----------



## TeeTee78

loblawbobblog said:


> We've been married for 27 years, together for 30. I've seen this picture before, a long time ago when we were showing each other our old pictures. I've no problem with the picture itself, it was from before we met, nor doi have an issue with her keeping it in the old photo box in the garage. My issue is that she separated this picture out from the rest and put it in her sock drawer. I asked her about it and she says she doesn't know why it's there, and that she was going through old photos for a "throwback" post on Instagram (which I remember her doing, no problem there, she didn't post this pic) and that it must have fallen out. That's a BS answer, of course
> 
> Am I wrong to be bothered by this?


You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill


----------



## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> I really needed to hear that, thank you.


I'm gratified that I was able to help. Hang in there, my friend. Insecurity can be overcome. 

Took me a really long time to get over mine. A lot of hard work in therapy and beyond. I hope that your journey is easier, though in truth I'm grateful for the hard work. It was really satisfying to do the emotional heavy lifting one does in intense therapy. I'm so glad I didn't give up on myself. Eventually, I came to see that the stories I was telling myself (about me, about where I stood in relationship, about what was important in relationship) were false. In fact, the whole endeavor of trying to measure myself was ignorant. I saw in therapy that it all arose from childhood wounds. From ways in which I was criticized and ridiculed by my mom. That I was raised in a way that was cruel and sick. But then I saw that it wasn't my mom's fault that she was ill; she had parents of her own and was really messed up. These things tend to carry down through generations, until someone finally does whatever it takes to heal himself or herself.

Eventually, I came to see that the only thing that's ultimately important is love. If you're lucky enough to have a partner whom you love and who loves you and treats you well, that's all there is. You've won the relationship lottery. On the other hand, if you have a partner who is abusive and isn't willing to go to counseling and herself and/or the relationship (if it's a function of resentments that have built up over time), then the healthy thing to do is leave. Self love requires that we not allow ourselves to be punching bags and to know that we deserve better.


----------



## Divinely Favored

loblawbobblog said:


> We have good, occasionally great, sex. But I'm pretty low energy in everyday life, that's just my nature. I can't manufacture excitement.


Good sex? Work on that, study, read. My wife thinks I am a sexual god in the sack. Tells me any woman would be grateful to have me.
How often? Wife and I have been together almost 26 yrs and sex is ~4-5x week. 
Change things up? Take her on hood of car at the lake. Full size air mattress fits perfectly in "truck bed" for night under the stars. Add positions and places.

If couples made each other priority and kept it that way, then there would not be issues when kids leave. My youngest is 17 and we are both ready for him to go! It is time to get back to us doing what we want, when we want and not worrying about son. 

Thing is we keep each other as the most important priority. Couple who has to try to adjust back to each other....sometimes there has already been too much damage from the distance imposed by spouse to raise kids, usually a mother, sometimes the dad, and the marriage does not survive.

Do you make her laugh? Laughing can take place of a lot of excitement. Not all females are excitement junkies. Passion is a must.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> Thank you for this response, it's very helpful and wise. I'll be honest and say my wife is my first love, my first relationship. I'm not her first love nor first relationship and it's that disparity that's causing this insecurity. It's my issue, I need to deal with it, it's not fair to her. Thanks again.


I'm very similar. My wife is my first real love, my first long term relationship and my first and only sexual partner. I was 16 when I met her. I was not her first partner or first love. She was engaged and lived with her ex. She was almost 19 when we met and had an ugly breakup about two months prior to us meeting. She even slept with him in the first month of our relationship, well before out relationship became sexual, in a vain and foolish attempt to get back with a man that had cheated on her more than once. Thing is, she was still in love with him. Love can blind us to the faults in our partners.

That ate at me for a very, very long time. I was jealous of him, everything he had with her that I didn't. Those feelings would come and go over the years and finding the occasional reminder, like that picture, would trigger those feelings again. it was only since talking about it here on TAM that I feel I'm finally over it. I realized it was foolish to feel that way. Among other things I knew I was far superior to him in everyway. I also had so much more with my wife than he ever had. We had been together over 30 years at that point, so it took me a loooong time to get over it.

Now, where we differ a little is my wife was super supportive in helping me deal with anything that made me feel insecure, and she had zero fond memories of him that she would reminisce over. Some here might say it was on me to get over it and not her problem, but I disagree. I think a loving spouse should want to help thier partner feel safe and secure. We eventually purged everything thing about him. She trashed her prom dress, because he was her date. We shredded her yearbook because every thing everyone wrote in it was wishing her luck with her ex. That was all before I started talking about it on TAM. I did recently buy her a new copy of the yearbook, so his senior picture in that book is the only thing remaining.

I'm not saying your wife won't go to that extent or that it is what you need to happen. However, I would hope she would be willing to help you feel safe and secure in your marriage by doing whatever is necessary. I found what worked best was to have very honest and open communication without any anger. I just opened up emotionally. It was very raw at times and she was very sympathetic about it. Our marriage is the strongest it has ever been and feels like it reaches new levels every day. Now that we are empty nest it feels almost like a brand new relationship.

I hope you can have an open and heartfelt conversation with your wife and she will help you feel safe and secure in your marriage as you move on to the empty nest part of your relationship. I also hope she isn't fooling herself into only remembering the good with him and forgetting the bad and pain he caused her.


----------



## Blondilocks

Maybe, just maybe, his concern has nothing to do with insecurity; but, rather just plain old disrespect.

There has to be a million and one places his wife could have tucked away that pic for her future viewing/reminiscing pleasure. Instead, she chose a place just a few feet from where her husband lays his head and makes love to her. A place she *knows* her husband will access.

No, to hell with that nonsense. And, to hell with trying to make the OP feel guilty because his wife has crap for brains and he needs to up his game blah, blah, blah...


----------



## 346745

It’s a photo from her past. Is she doing the horizontal bop with him? Highly doubtful. Does she think of him sometimes when she’s in bed with hubby? Shh, a secret: Everyone does that now and then. A little extra inspiration can be helpful. We’ve all done it. Well, maybe not that Catholic Dad guy. No worries about the photo. Seriously.


----------



## jsmart

@BigDaddyNY , wow, that was a soul baring post that I’m sure will help many deal with their internal demons they deal with in being with a spouse who had an ex that seems to have loomed large in their life. Your wife has done a lot to make you feel loved and that you’re the only one in her heart but unfortunately, the OP has not been getting that from his wife. 

From what he has shared, it seems like he has lived in the shadow of her ex. She has never truly let her ex go after 3 decades that explains OP’s feeling of insecurity. You know in your gut when someone is 100 % into you and when you’re just getting a superficial love that only on the surface.

I do think counseling for both of them can help. Being in the empty nest stage, is a dangerous time for a marriage and he shouldn’t just coast on their past. There’s a reason she’s staring at a picture of herself pregnant with her ex after 30 years with OP.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Longtime Hubby said:


> It’s a photo from her past. Is she doing the horizontal bop with him? Highly doubtful. Does she think of him sometimes when she’s in bed with hubby? Shh, a secret: Everyone does that now and then. A little extra inspiration can be helpful. We’ve all done it. Well, maybe not that Catholic Dad guy. No worries about the photo. Seriously.


Looks like she's thinking of the ex a lot more than before. The picture that has been in a box in the garage for years has now made it's way to the sock drawer she accesses everyday, 3ft from where hubby lays his head, and she "didn't know" how it got there. No worries though.


----------



## 346745

Captain Obvious said:


> Looks like she's thinking of the ex a lot more than before. The picture that has been in a box in the garage for years has now made it's way to the sock drawer she accesses everyday, 3ft from where hubby lays his head, and she "didn't know" how it got there. No worries though.


It’s a photo. I really don’t understand all the angst.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Longtime Hubby said:


> It’s a photo. I really don’t understand all the angst.


It's a photo of an ex-bf/lover, in their bedroom, where she would be reminiscing over it everyday. Again, the same photo that had been in a storage box in their garage forever. Now that photo is in her sock drawer, she doesn't know how it got there, which is a total lie, it got there because she put it there. You don't understand the angst, but many here do.


----------



## *Deidre*

Because it seems to the OP’s wife, it’s more than just a pic. And she has made the OP feel a bit inferior to this guy from what I’ve read. She was in contact with him as well after they got married he posted, like five years in but still.

I have empathy for his wife but I also think that she needs to get some counseling to deal with whatever this is about.


----------



## 346745

Captain Obvious said:


> It's a photo of an ex-bf/lover, in their bedroom, where she would be reminiscing over it everyday. Again, the same photo that had been in a storage box in their garage forever. Now that photo is in her sock drawer, she doesn't know how it got there, which is a total lie, it got there because she put it there. You don't understand the angst, but many here do.


Is it on the nightstand? My guess is it was buried under the socks and he did some snooping. Would I be upset if my wife had an old photo tucked away? Maybe a little? Married near 28, together 30-plus. No worries. We have a good marriage. Besides, I'm better looking than him!


----------



## SunCMars

*Deidre* said:


> In the HBO series “Big Little Lies,” Reese Witherspoon plays Madeline who has a great house, loving husband, lives on the beach but is still upset over her ex husband walking out on her ten years prior. Her current husband starts to feel like her consolation prize but she tells him that she loves him and to not think that way.
> She said “It’s possible for me to love you with all my heart and...”
> 
> Her husband finishes her sentence with...
> 
> “...but still be hurt over your ex.”
> 
> This thread reminds me of that scene and perhaps, there’s some truth to that? I don’t know.😌


How is it that 'true love' can die?


Being true-

Die, it cannot, it finds itself shunted, alas, stored away.
This is as it should be, for truth itself, shall never die.
Truth can only be ignored, or painted over with lies.

There is true love and good love.
Thus, said:
True and good are not always proper bed mates.


_The Typist-_


----------



## As'laDain

All this over a picture... Wow.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Longtime Hubby said:


> Is it on the nightstand? My guess is it was buried under the socks and he did some snooping. Would I be upset if my wife had an old photo tucked away? Maybe a little? Married near 28, together 30-plus. No worries. We have a good marriage. Besides, I'm better looking than him!


It was buried in the sock drawer, which meant she put there, and tried to hide it, which in my opinion is much worse than setting it on the night-stand. At least putting it on the night-stand would be plausible with a story of it fell out of the box so I set it here and forgot about it.


----------



## 346745

Captain Obvious said:


> It was buried in the sock drawer, which meant she put there, and tried to hide it, which in my opinion is much worse than setting it on the night-stand. At least putting it on the night-stand would be plausible with a story of it fell out of the box so I set it here and forgot about it.


I think OP may be leaving out some details


----------



## *Deidre*

If you read through the thread, she has always made him feel “less than.” We all have memories but if you treat your spouse like a consolation prize because you never healed over your ex, you would likely feel sad about it.

If it’s just a pic, then she should toss it out if it’s “meaningless.”😌


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Longtime Hubby said:


> It’s a photo from her past. Is she doing the horizontal bop with him? Highly doubtful. Does she think of him sometimes when she’s in bed with hubby? Shh, a secret: Everyone does that now and then. A little extra inspiration can be helpful. We’ve all done it. Well, maybe not that Catholic Dad guy. No worries about the photo. Seriously.


No we haven't all done it. And the thought of my wife thinking about an ex during sex with me is appalling, and even if in her head only it is disrespectful of the marriage. Seriously? Reminiscing about getting banged by you ex while you're having sex with your current husband? That is disgusting behavior. Maybe I'm just an one insecure mofo, but that just ain't right in my book.



Longtime Hubby said:


> Is it on the nightstand? My guess is it was buried under the socks and he did some snooping. Would I be upset if my wife had an old photo tucked away? Maybe a little? Married near 28, together 30-plus. No worries. We have a good marriage. Besides, I'm better looking than him!


This is a guy that got her pregnant which ended in an abortion and he was physically abusive. If she is reminiscing about anything other than the loss of her baby there is something seriously wrong IMO. Not to mention she has talked about this person at times throughout their marriage including a recent date night. I don't blame @loblawbobblog one bit for feeling insecure about finding this picture stashed in her drawer. My opinion is it doesn't even belong in the house.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

jsmart said:


> @BigDaddyNY , wow, that was a soul baring post that I’m sure will help many deal with their internal demons they deal with in being with a spouse who had an ex that seems to have loomed large in their life. Your wife has done a lot to make you feel loved and that you’re the only one in her heart but unfortunately, the OP has not been getting that from his wife.
> 
> From what he has shared, it seems like he has lived in the shadow of her ex. She has never truly let her ex go after 3 decades that explains OP’s feeling of insecurity. You know in your gut when someone is 100 % into you and when you’re just getting a superficial love that only on the surface.
> 
> I do think counseling for both of them can help. Being in the empty nest stage, is a dangerous time for a marriage and he shouldn’t just coast on their past. There’s a reason she’s staring at a picture of herself pregnant with her ex after 30 years with OP.


She has done a lot, but in part it is because I fully shared how I felt about it. I'm not so sure OP has done that. I feel like he may have taken what he considers the high road and tries to forget about it anytime she has mentioned the ex. Finding the pic in their bedroom was finally just too much. 

It isn't impossible that the pics ended up there by accident, but it sure is implausible. And she left it there another week when he asked her not too. That means she had 7 opportunities to see and and think about putting it away, but didn't. That's exactly how I would have been thinking about it. And moving into the the empty nest stage, which scared the hell out of me. It is a major life changing event that can have unexpected results. Better to deal with anything before it becomes unmanageable.


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## 346745

My $ is on baby thoughts. You have never fantasized once while having sex? Not once? Hmm….


----------



## Anastasia6

Longtime Hubby said:


> My $ is on baby thoughts. You have never fantasized once while having sex? Not once? Hmm….


Not about an ex. Not once.


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## 346745

Anastasia6 said:


> Not about an ex. Not once.


Okay. Not about an ex


----------



## *Deidre*

The OP states he’s not trying to “police” his wife’s thoughts. 

I’m done with Cliff notes, y’all need to read the entire thread. 😅


----------



## Rob_1

@loblawbobblog : to me is very simple. I find a picture of an Ex of my wife, and I immediately would either destroy it right on the spot, or tell my wife that the picture must be destroyed NOW by her, right in front of me. I don't give a crap what some "sensitive" males or females think is Ok. If to me is not OK, then is not OK. I will not put up with that kind of disrespect, period. screw what anyone thinks, or consider appropriate. If YOU consider this inappropriate, then by all means have the BALLS to demand what you want. 

Is not my marriage is yours, but, if I were in your situation and my wife refuses to destroy the photo, I can guarantee you that the next words out of my mouth would be the photo or I, NOW, make your decision or I will make it for you. I'm that black and white for this type of situations. I couldn't give a rat's ass if some uber sensitives think that I'm a insecure asshole. They can think all they want. It wouldn't matter to me one bit. The only thing that would matter to me would be my wife's decision about it.


----------



## 346745

*Deidre* said:


> The OP states he’s not trying to “police” his wife’s thoughts.
> 
> I’m done with Cliff notes, y’all need to read the entire thread. 😅


“The Dream Police, they live inside of my head. The Dream Police, they come for me in my bed …” - Cheap Trick


----------



## As'laDain

Rob_1 said:


> @loblawbobblog : to me is very simple. I find a picture of an Ex of my wife, and I immediately would either destroy it right on the spot, or tell my wife that the picture must be destroyed NOW by her, right in front of me. I don't give a crap what some "sensitive" males or females think is Ok. If to me is not OK, then is not OK. I will not put up with that kind of disrespect, period. screw what anyone thinks, or consider appropriate. If YOU consider this inappropriate, then by all means have the BALLS to demand what you want.
> 
> Is not my marriage is yours, but, if I were in your situation and my wife refuses to destroy the photo, I can guarantee you that the next words out of my mouth would be the photo or I, NOW, make your decision or I will make it for you. I'm that black and white for this type of situations. I couldn't give a rat's ass if some uber sensitives think that I'm a insecure asshole. They can think all they want. It wouldn't matter to me one bit. The only thing that would matter to me would be my wife's decision about it.


I'm glad my wife doesn't think like you. We would be divorced. To hell with anyone that is so damned insecure that they would force me to destroy one of the few things from my past that I still have. Especially if I'm keeping it tucked away somewhere so that they aren't forced to see it every day. 

Talk about having insecurities...


----------



## 346745

As'laDain said:


> I'm glad my wife doesn't think like you. We would be divorced. To hell with anyone that is so damned insecure that they would force me to destroy one of the few things from my past that I still have. Especially if I'm keeping it tucked away somewhere so that they aren't forced to see it every day.
> 
> Talk about having insecurities...


Exactly.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rob_1 said:


> @loblawbobblog : to me is very simple. I find a picture of an Ex of my wife, and I immediately would either destroy it right on the spot, or tell my wife that the picture must be destroyed NOW by her, right in front of me. I don't give a crap what some "sensitive" males or females think is Ok. If to me is not OK, then is not OK. I will not put up with that kind of disrespect, period. screw what anyone thinks, or consider appropriate. If YOU consider this inappropriate, then by all means have the BALLS to demand what you want.
> 
> Is not my marriage is yours, but, if I were in your situation and my wife refuses to destroy the photo, I can guarantee you that the next words out of my mouth would be the photo or I, NOW, make your decision or I will make it for you. I'm that black and white for this type of situations. I couldn't give a rat's ass if some uber sensitives think that I'm a insecure asshole. They can think all they want. It wouldn't matter to me one bit. The only thing that would matter to me would be my wife's decision about it.


I wasn't so blunt, but I told my wife I wanted her to throw her prom dress away. She initially said go ahead and throw it away. I told, her no, I want you to be the one to do it, even if it was for me. She did it without hesitation. I did actually feel bad about it, but at the same time I didn't. I fully recognize that her past is what made her into the woman I love today, but once married I don't see any reason to keep physical things from your past lovers. I just doesn't make sense in my mind.


----------



## 346745

BigDaddyNY said:


> I wasn't so blunt, but I told my wife I wanted her to throw her prom dress away. She initially said go ahead and throw it away. I told, her no, I want you to be the one to do it, even if it was for me. She did it without hesitation. I did actually feel bad about it, but at the same time I didn't. I fully recognize that her past is what made her into the woman I love today, but once married I don't see any reason to keep physical things from your past lovers. I just doesn't make sense in my mind.


Why make her throw out her prom dress? Because she wore it - God forbid - on a date with someone else? In high school, no less.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why make her throw out her prom dress?


To be blunt, because every time I saw it all I thought about was him taking it off of her and banging her.


----------



## 346745

BigDaddyNY said:


> To be blunt, because every time I saw it all I thought about was him taking it off of her and banging her.


In high school. 40 some years ago?


----------



## Rob_1

As'laDain said:


> Talk about having insecurities...


No freaking insecurities at all. I'm not just some namby pamby, scare little man that would let his boundaries pass by, just because I wouldn't dare to ruffle any feathers. If my woman chooses the picture over me, then, That's that. I will not be some puzz man afraid of ending a relationship. To me, her choosing the picture is more than enough for me to understand that I don't really matter after all. So screw your insecurities angle. That's for weak, afraid apologists.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Longtime Hubby said:


> In high school. 40 some years ago?


Yes, 36 years ago actually. 

Sounds crazy to you I'm sure. But not in my head. 

My thought process: He cheated on her more than once and was a piece of crap almost their whole relationship, so why would she want any reminder anyway. Also, she slept with him in our first month of dating trying to get him back. It caused significant retroactive jealousy in me. Anything that my mind could link to him just ate at me. I'm an imperfect human, but my wife loves me enough to put me ahead of all else, including mementos of a past relationship. And I've tried to give her the best husband a woman could have. It is just the dynamic we have.


----------



## 346745

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yes, 36 years ago actually.
> 
> Sounds crazy to you I'm sure. But not in my head.
> 
> My thought process: He cheated on her more than once and was a piece of crap almost their whole relationship, so why would she want any reminder anyway. Also, she slept with him in our first month of dating trying to get him back. It caused significant retroactive jealousy in me. Anything that my mind could link to him just ate at me. I'm an imperfect human, but my wife loves me enough to put me ahead of all else, including mementos of a past relationship. And I've tried to give her the best husband a woman could have. It is just the dynamic we have.


How long have you been married to her? I’m secure in marriage to realize my wife may think of the past - before us - and it’s no cause for concern. I have an old baseball cap my late former GF gave me. I wear it now and then. Wife knows. Not filing for divorce.


----------



## Blondilocks

Me thinks some people are being deliberately obtuse. Pot stirrers are so boring.


----------



## As'laDain

Blondilocks said:


> Me thinks some people are being deliberately obtuse. Pot stirrers are so boring.


I find it interesting that they guy is worried about what an old picture means, with people reading into the meaning of where it is, how it's hidden, how it is singled out from the rest of them, what it's about, etc...

...and yet the people making such a big deal about it are claiming it's _*not*_ about insecurities?

Then what is the big deal about it? If it doesn't hit on insecurities, then why is it an issue?


----------



## Divinely Favored

ABHale said:


> I have no pictures of my exs. Why would I unless I still had a thing for them.
> 
> Could your wife be in contact with this ex?
> 
> Does she consider him the one that got away?
> 
> Does she still have feelings for him?
> 
> Her excuse was utter crap, have a conversation and tell her this. Then ask the questions.


Damned Skippy! My wife does not have photos of her prior 10 yr marriage. She walked away from his serial cheating ass. Once we were going through photos and she came across a photo of my ex. I told her to throw it in the trash where she belonged but she said no and stuck it in the drawer where we have
thousands of photos. 

It bothered her to go to court clerk recently to get her 1st marriage certificate so she could get a Real ID version of her DL. Says it is a mistake she wished she did not have to think about again.

To me carrying a wedding photo around of 1st spouse would be as bad as keeping sex videos with them.


----------



## Divinely Favored

As'laDain said:


> I find it interesting that they guy is worried about what an old picture means, with people reading into the meaning of where it is, how it's hidden, how it is singled out from the rest of them, what it's about, etc...
> 
> ...and yet the people making such a big deal about it are claiming it's _*not*_ about insecurities?
> 
> Then what is the big deal about it? If it doesn't hit on insecurities, then why is it an issue?


Because she is obviously yearning for times of yester year and can carry her ass to him!


----------



## ElOtro

Longtime Hubby said:


> Shh, a secret: Everyone does that now and then. A little extra inspiration can be helpful. We’ve all done it. Well, maybe not that Catholic Dad guy





Longtime Hubby said:


> You have never fantasized once while having sex? Not once? Hmm….





Anastasia6 said:


> Not about an ex. Not once.





Longtime Hubby said:


> Okay. Not about an ex


I´ve never had another woman in my mind during sex whith the one I loved.
Not because of morals, not because of character, neither cos the penguin´s navel.
Eros and fantasies between us? Not only stronger than you think but also stronger than anyone can imagine. But with noone else "in bed".
She was all the woman I needed.
There is a new thing called being in love for a life. Pepople should try it.
I know, they say it is for the honeymoon stage and then it´s gone.
We kept in flames for all our years together.


----------



## jsmart

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why make her throw out her prom dress? Because she wore it - God forbid - on a date with someone else? In high school, no less.


Dude what is your issue? You’ve done nothing but try to ridicule the OP and others who have similar concerns with your condescending comments.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> Me thinks some people are being deliberately obtuse. Pot stirrers are so boring.


Or the folks who keep posting as if they haven't read the thread.

I feel like replying "Asked and answered. Next."


----------



## Blondilocks

As'laDain said:


> I find it interesting that they guy is worried about what an old picture means, with people reading into the meaning of where it is, how it's hidden, how it is singled out from the rest of them, what it's about, etc...
> 
> ...and yet the people making such a big deal about it are claiming it's _*not*_ about insecurities?
> 
> Then what is the big deal about it? If it doesn't hit on insecurities, then why is it an issue?


You are not a person who believes in monogamy so, of course, it doesn't make sense to you. You and your wife have a menagerie of lovers which works for you.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Blondilocks said:


> Maybe, just maybe, his concern has nothing to do with insecurity; but, rather just plain old disrespect.
> 
> There has to be a million and one places his wife could have tucked away that pic for her future viewing/reminiscing pleasure. Instead, she chose a place just a few feet from where her husband lays his head and makes love to her. A place she *knows* her husband will access.
> 
> No, to hell with that nonsense. And, to hell with trying to make the OP feel guilty because his wife has crap for brains and he needs to up his game blah, blah, blah...


Right..that photo would have been in my possession and she would have to come ask me for it, if she would. It would also tell me a lot if she was searching frantically for it.


----------



## ABHale

As'laDain said:


> I'm glad my wife doesn't think like you. We would be divorced. To hell with anyone that is so damned insecure that they would force me to destroy one of the few things from my past that I still have. Especially if I'm keeping it tucked away somewhere so that they aren't forced to see it every day.
> 
> Talk about having insecurities...


Are you wishing you were with an ex lover?

Do you have a picture of the two of you that you have at hand to look at?

If not, what you posted doesn’t have any bearing here.

OP didn’t have a problem with the photo being packed up in the garage. Once his wife moved it to easy access is when it became a problem.


----------



## Parallax857

ABHale said:


> Are you wishing you were with an ex lover?
> Do you have a picture of the two of you that you have at hand to look at?
> If not, what you posted doesn’t have any bearing here.
> OP didn’t have a problem with the photo being packed up in the garage. Once his wife moved it to easy access is when it became a problem.


----------



## 346745

ElOtro said:


> I´ve never had another woman in my mind during sex whith the one I loved.
> Not because of morals, not because of character, neither cos the penguin´s navel.
> Eros and fantasies between us? Not only stronger than you think but also stronger than anyone can imagine. But with noone else "in bed".
> She was all the woman I needed.
> There is a new thing called being in love for a life. Pepople should try it.
> I know, they say it is for the honeymoon stage and then it´s gone.
> We kept in flames for all our years together.


Good for you. No harm having a fantasy now and then. Still in love, too. Shocking!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Longtime Hubby said:


> How long have you been married to her? I’m secure in marriage to realize my wife may think of the past - before us - and it’s no cause for concern. I have an old baseball cap my late former GF gave me. I wear it now and then. Wife knows. Not filing for divorce.


We've been married 32 years, together 35. My marriage is rock solid with no concern about infidelity in either directions. I wouldn't go as far as divorce, unless she fought tooth and nail over getting rid of some of that stuff. That would make me wonder why. She did it without hesitation. She still has memories, no reason to keep relics of a past lover IMO.


----------



## 346745

jsmart said:


> Dude what is your issue? You’ve done nothing but try to ridicule the OP and others who have similar concerns with your condescending comments.


Dude, I have no issues. So people disagree. Big deal


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> Maybe, just maybe, his concern has nothing to do with insecurity; but, rather just plain old disrespect.
> 
> There has to be a million and one places his wife could have tucked away that pic for her future viewing/reminiscing pleasure. Instead, she chose a place just a few feet from where her husband lays his head and makes love to her. A place she *knows* her husband will access.
> 
> No, to hell with that nonsense. And, to hell with trying to make the OP feel guilty because his wife has crap for brains and he needs to up his game blah, blah, blah...


I can concur with the Blonde one.

I'm not insecure or even jealous but I won't tolerate disrespect and I honestly couldn't bring myself to hold a very high view of my wife if she had a picture of her ex or a picture with her and him that was outside of an album in storage for antiquity.

Mrs. C is very mindful of of respecting me and almost too cautious about even bringing up a memory of him when talking with a friend or relative in my presence. She doesn't just behave this way because of who I am but because of the lady she is.

She does have old pictures in albums but she only shares those from that time in her life with me that don't have him in them. She was married to him for 8 years and had a son with him so it's understandable to keep a record of that time and our oldest might like the albums when we pass on.

She has no pictures of ex boyfriends at all and I was a wild man before meeting her so, while a couple of my girlfriends were nice, I was basically a hookup kind of guy and I have no pictures of anyone from my past.

I have some highschool stuff here and there and occasionally a picture of an ex is in there, usually in a group of other classmates and friends.

Mrs. C has asked once or twice "Is that so and so?" when an old album is being looked through. I respond "Yup." because I'm sophisticated and that's all. She knows my history and just keeps track of where my exes might be.😉

Like I said earlier, if my wife had a picture of her and her ex in our bedroom, we would be having a conversation until I found out whatever malfunction was going on with us and/or her.


----------



## *Deidre*

@Longtime Hubby

But you’re disagreeing on something that isn’t the topic. The topic isn’t that the OP went ballistic over finding a random pic of his wife’s ex laying around, it is rather that she has spent a good portion of their marriage talking about her ex and making the OP feel in a way, inferior to her memory of her ex. The pic is merely part of a larger puzzle.


----------



## Parallax857

*Deidre* said:


> @Longtime Hubby
> But you’re disagreeing on something that isn’t the topic. The topic isn’t that the OP went ballistic over finding a random pic of his wife’s ex laying around, it is rather that she has spent a good portion of their marriage talking about her ex and making the OP feel in a way, inferior to her memory of her ex.


----------



## ConanHub

I would have replaced the picture with one of my unit.

If she wants to look at a dyc it can be mine.😎


----------



## As'laDain

Divinely Favored said:


> Damned Skippy! My wife does not have photos of her prior 10 yr marriage. She walked away from his serial cheating ass. Once we were going through photos and she came across a photo of my ex. I told her to throw it in the trash where she belonged but she said no and stuck it in the drawer where we have
> thousands of photos.
> 
> It bothered her to go to court clerk recently to get her 1st marriage certificate so she could get a Real ID version of her DL. Says it is a mistake she wished she did not have to think about again.
> 
> To me carrying a wedding photo around of 1st spouse would be as bad as keeping sex videos with them.


That's because of what YOU think when you see old photos.


Blondilocks said:


> You are not a person who believes in monogamy so, of course, it doesn't make sense to you. You and your wife have a menagerie of lovers which works for you.


And that somehow means that it's not about insecurity? We are talking about a picture that is from a relationship that ended three decades ago. 

An earlier poster said that they would force their wife to choose the picture or them. Either destroy it on the spot, or he will leave them. Not only does that show an extreme level of insecurity over a photo, but it also demonstrates that they feel the solution to their own butthurt is to _force_ their spouse to do what they want about it, take the blame for their own feelings of insecurity and make a big show about appeasing him.

The word for that is controlling. 

My wife used to throw her ring at me whenever she was upset. She used to use the marriage as an emotional weapon as well. I told her one day that if she throws her ring at me again, she won't get it back.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why make her throw out her prom dress? Because she wore it - God forbid - on a date with someone else? In high school, no less.


Looks like you edited this a little after I responded. It wasn't just any date. It was the guy she was engaged to and lived with and slept with after we just started dating. I don't think it is unreasonable to purge all physical remnants of that, and my wife agreed. And you say, just high school no less. Well, we both got started very young. She was engaged while in high school and they moved in together straight out of HS. She was barely a year out of high school when we met and I was between my sophomore and junior year. So the fact that it was in high school is meaningless. It isn't as if we met 30 years after HS and I asked her to toss her prom dress. 

I wish she would have thought to get rid of every proactively, but I don't fault her for that. Like a lot of stuff it just comes along for the ride when you move around. Whenever I asked her to ditch something that we came across as we went through boxes after moves, etc. she did it without complaining. Because that is who she is. She put me and our marriage first. All those things are just stuff. Stuff from a past that should be left in the past. That has been a part of a very strong marriage. Not that the OP doesn't have a strong marriage, I can't judge that, but he has a wife that appears to be putting too much thought into her past lover. I feel that if she is fully committed AND he expresses his feelings about it, she would have no problem getting rid of those physical pieces of her past for the sake of his peace of mind and their marriage.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ElOtro said:


> I´ve never had another woman in my mind during sex whith the one I loved.
> Not because of morals, not because of character, neither cos the penguin´s navel.
> Eros and fantasies between us? Not only stronger than you think but also stronger than anyone can imagine. But with noone else "in bed".
> She was all the woman I needed.
> There is a new thing called being in love for a life. Pepople should try it.
> I know, they say it is for the honeymoon stage and then it´s gone.
> We kept in flames for all our years together.


That's what I'm saying! Going on 25 yrs and in the honeymoon phase now. Do not want any other, do not fantasize about any other. When we said till death do we part, that means until we each die, not till our spouse dies. We will be together now and in the here after.


----------



## 346745

Divinely Favored said:


> That's what I'm saying! Going on 25 yrs and in the honeymoon phase now. Do not want any other, do not fantasize about any other. When we said till death do we part, that means until we each die, not till our spouse dies. We will be together now and in the here after.


So if your spouse dies before you, you can’t marry someone else?


----------



## Rob_1

As'laDain said:


> The word for that is controlling.


I would rather be called a controlling insecure asshole, before I would let my wife be taken by another man or woman, like you seem to like. if we were not too far into the past when we didn't have DNA testing, dudes like you wouldn't know if the children (if any) were yours or not. That's how nature intended it, that's why men all around this world go ballistic in many cases. that's how mother nature used to deal with undesirable genes.


----------



## As'laDain

Rob_1 said:


> I would rather be called a controlling insecure asshole, before I would let my wife be taken by another man or woman, like you seem to like. if we were not too far into the past when we didn't have DNA testing, dudes like you wouldn't know if the children (if any) were yours or not. That's how nature intended it, that's why men all around this world go ballistic in many cases. that's how mother nature used to deal with undesirable genes.


Justify it all you want, it's just you defending your insecurities and calling it righteous. Because God forbid your wife think something you don't approve of, or have a past.


----------



## As'laDain

ABHale said:


> Are you wishing you were with an ex lover?
> 
> Do you have a picture of the two of you that you have at hand to look at?
> 
> If not, what you posted doesn’t have any bearing here.
> 
> OP didn’t have a problem with the photo being packed up in the garage. Once his wife moved it to easy access is when it became a problem.


I do have a picture of one of my ex girlfriends and I kissing. I still keep it because it's from a time before I got married and it's one of the few things I own from my past. Looking at the photo makes it easier for me to remember a hell of a lot ore about that time in my life. My wife has seen it and never asked me to get rid of it. 

Just because I have the picture and want to keep it does not mean that I wish I were with her today. I left her for a reason. But the picture reminds me of a hell of a lot more than just her.


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> Justify it all you want, it's just you defending your insecurities and calling it righteous. Because God forbid your wife think something you don't approve of, or have a past.


Sorry, but that's a strawman argument. I've no issue with her past nor am I trying to police her thoughts. Of course she'll think about her ex from time to time. I've no issue with her keeping old photos of them together in a box in the garage. My issue is that she took that photo out of the box, put it in a readily accessible place in our bedroom, then gave an evasive answer when I asked about it. If you have no issue with the actual facts here, then more power to you. We're different.


----------



## Rob_1

As'laDain said:


> Justify it all you want,


Dude: not need for justification at all. I don't need any justification to set what my boundaries are. But let's agree to disagree, so as to not threadjack from OP.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Longtime Hubby said:


> So if your spouse dies before you, you can’t marry someone else?


We would not. Till death do us part to us means when we pass ourselves, not just when spouse passes.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> Sorry, but that's a strawman argument. I've no issue with her past nor am I trying to police her thoughts. Of course she'll think about her ex from time to time. I've no issue with her keeping old photos of them together in a box in the garage. My issue is that she took that photo out of the box, put it in a readily accessible place in our bedroom, then gave an evasive answer when I asked about it. If you have no issue with the actual facts here, then more power to you. We're different.


My issue is more with the overall response of people saying that they would literally be willing to throw away a marriage over a photo. 

If your wife is willing to put the photo away, then what is the issue? There are several reasons it could have ended up in her sock drawer that are pretty innocuous. But my question is, why does it matter? 

It's an old photo from a dead relationship.


----------



## 346745

Divinely Favored said:


> We would not. Till death do us part to us means when we pass ourselves, not just when spouse passes.


We’ve talked about this. If one passes before the other, we are both 100% okay with surviving spouse marrying again. If one is dead, why should the survivor be denied happiness? Especially if the death were to happen at a young age. We aren’t into the “soul mate” concept. Not at all.


----------



## As'laDain

Rob_1 said:


> Dude: not need for justification at all. I don't need any justification to set what my boundaries are. But let's agree to disagree, so as to not threadjack from OP.


A boundary is what _*you*_ are willing to do in order to protect yourself. The second you start dictating what someone else has to do for your "boundary", it's not a boundary.


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> My issue is more with the overall response of people saying that they would literally be willing to throw away a marriage over a photo.
> 
> If your wife is willing to put the photo away, then what is the issue? There are several reasons it could have ended up in her sock drawer that are pretty innocuous. But my question is, why does it matter?
> 
> It's an old photo from a dead relationship.


Exactly. Why does it matter? Why did she feel the need to take it out of the old photo box and put it within arms' reach in our bedroom? If it's just an old photo, why did she give an evasive answer when I asked about it? Why did she not remove it when I asked her to?

You're being disingenuous. You know photos and other tokens from a person's past can carry a lot of emotional weight. My issue is not with the photo itself but what it represents to her and how that could possibly have an effect on our marriage.


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> A boundary is what _*you*_ are willing to do in order to protect yourself. The second you start dictating what someone else has to do for your "boundary", it's not a boundary.


That makes zero sense within the context of a committed relationship. Loving partners make reasonable concessions and compromises for the sake of their partners on a daily basis.


----------



## Sfort

BigDaddyNY said:


> Also, she slept with him in our first month of dating trying to get him back. It caused significant retroactive jealousy in me.


Actually, cheating after you met her is actual jealousy. Him taking off her prom dress is retroactive jealousy, or so I would suggest based on the research I've done.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> Exactly. Why does it matter? Why did she feel the need to take it out of the old photo box and put it within arms' reach in our bedroom? If it's just an old photo, why did she give an evasive answer when I asked about it? Why did she not remove it when I asked her to?
> 
> You're being disingenuous. You know photos and other tokens from a person's post can carry a lot of emotional weight. My issue is not with the photo itself but what it represents to her and how that could possibly have an effect on our marriage.


You are worrying about what it means to her. About what she was thinking and what her intentions are. The bigger issue is that you don't believe her answer. It could just have easily been that she pulled it out, looked at it, and dropped it and forgot about it. You said yourself she went through her old photos for a "throwback" post. 

So what answer are you looking for? It seems like you won't believe anything that doesn't line up with the narrative that you have already decided on. 

So what exactly is she supposed to do to make you feel better about it? When you finally told her that it was bothering you enough to ask her to remove it, she did. 

It seems to me that _*you*_ are the one making a big deal about it, and you have already dismissed her answer as BS. 

If I were in your wife's shoes, I would stop trying to appease you the second you made it clear that you wouldn't believe me anyway.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> That makes zero sense within the context of a committed relationship. Loving partners make reasonable concessions and compromises for the sake of their partners on a daily basis.


Making compromises is not the same thing as enforcing a boundary. A compromise is making an agreed upon decision. A boundary _of yours_ can only be enforced by you alone.


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> Making compromises is not the same thing as enforcing a boundary. A compromise is making an agreed upon decision. A boundary _of yours_ can only be enforced by you alone.


If I express to my wife that I no longer want to hear about her ex, that is a boundary I'm enforcing that she must adjust her behavior in order to respect. Not respecting a partner's boundary and continuing to act in violation of it is not loving behavior.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Longtime Hubby said:


> We’ve talked about this. If one passes before the other, we are both 100% okay with surviving spouse marrying again. If one is dead, why should the survivor be denied happiness? Especially if the death were to happen at a young age. We aren’t into the “soul mate” concept. Not at all.


I don't have to be married to be happy. I'm ok if she wanted to remarry and she is ok if I wanted to. It is just a personal choice each made for self.
If she goes and I am physically able...I'm going to be going on elk and mule deer hunts to Montana, Wyoming, etc. Deep sea fishing. Scuba diving. I will not be unhappy, my time will be full of activities , probably some with my 2 boys I'm sure.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> If I express to my wife that I no longer want to hear about her ex, that is a boundary I'm enforcing that she must adjust her behavior in order to respect. Not respecting a partner's boundary and continuing to act in violation of it is not loving behavior.


Ok. Cool. So, she put the photo away when you asked her to. 

So what is the issue? It seems like you already solved it.


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> Ok. Cool. So, she put the photo away when you asked her to.
> 
> So what is the issue? It seems like you already solved it.


I had to ask her twice and she was evasive when I asked why it was there. That bothers me, don't know what else to say.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> I had to ask her twice and she was evasive when I asked why it was there. That bothers me, don't know what else to say.


It's very possible that she seemed evasive because she knew you would blow it out of proportion. In the end, she did what you asked.


----------



## jsmart

@loblawbobblog , how has your wife been these past few weeks? Especially since the You brought the finding of the pic and the follow up request about it? Is she depressed or distant? 

Are your kids close to home , do they visit? I ask because some have thought that maybe it was depression about the abortion. Down the road, your kids will have kids, and you can both have the joy of seeing your kids be parents and enjoy the grand kids. That should be something you should discuss with her. 

also, how has your marriage been since the kids moved out of the house? Are you spending time as a couple going on date nights? Do you hang out as a couple with friends? How is your sex life? With the house to yourselves, has the sex gone up? Are you taking care of yourself physically? Do you have male friends that you get to hang with? Go see a game at sports bar , have a poker night in your or theirs man cave, or go hunting/fishing with? Does your wife have gal friends that she gets together with?


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> It's very possible that she seemed evasive because she knew you would blow it out of proportion. In the end, she did what you asked.


"I lied because I knew you'd be upset about the truth" is quite possibly the lamest excuse in the book.


----------



## Rob_1

As'laDain said:


> A boundary is what _*you*_ are willing to do in order to protect yourself. The second you start dictating what someone else has to do for your "boundary", it's not a boundary.


listen dude: I could care one bit what a dude like you think about what I consider whatever in my marriage.


----------



## As'laDain

loblawbobblog said:


> "I lied because I knew you'd be upset about the truth" is quite possibly the lamest excuse in the book.


Lying is different from not wanting to answer the question in order to avoid conflict. Regardless, it seems like you have already made up your mind about it. 

You are worried about what your wife _might_ be thinking. 

Assuming the worst from someone and then treating them that way usually doesn't end well.


----------



## A18S37K14H18

Hey OP,

Don't worry about some of these posters. With some people, one can never win, they are always right and we're always wrong.

I agree with you and what you've done.

Take care


----------



## loblawbobblog

As'laDain said:


> Lying is different from not wanting to answer the question in order to avoid conflict.


Fundamentally disagree.


----------



## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> "I lied because I knew you'd be upset about the truth" is quite possibly the lamest excuse in the book.


It also doesn't tell you what the truth is, which is why it's an effective deflection. "Oh, Ok well at least now you are telling me the truth." Um what's truth it that? You know the truth that she lied, but you don't know what she was lying about.


----------



## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> Fundamentally disagree.


I think you and your wife need to talk about this. Ideally during a couples counseling session. It's not, in my view, about the photo itself but rather about the distrust. You found her answer evasive. I already recommended you explain this but do so in a way that owns your insecurity. It's important not to approach in a way that might seem like you're accusing her of doing something wrong but, rather, that you ask for her help in resolving your concerns. To do that, it's necessary to be vulnerable. (Not the kind of thing Rob would do, but guys like that don't have successful marriages.)

This thread at this point seems to be going around in circles. I don't have anything more to offer, my friend. I don't think there's anything left to resolve with us. It's time to talk to your wife. Would love to hear how it goes.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Sfort said:


> Actually, cheating after you met her is actual jealousy. Him taking off her prom dress is retroactive jealousy, or so I would suggest based on the research I've done.


I agree, but thanks to talking to some members here, I'm confident that RJ was triggered by the infidelity, so they kind of have the same source. She had one other sexual partner before her ex and I have never had any RJ about him. I've also come to realize that her ex slept with her in part to try to sabotage her new relationship with me. That contributes to the hate for anything involving him.

I think the OP is maybe experiencing some RJ due to his wife talking about this guy quite a bit throughout there relationship and the picture in it's location was major trigger.


----------



## Parallax857

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the OP is maybe experiencing some RJ due to his wife talking about this guy quite a bit throughout there relationship and the picture in it's location was major trigger.


There was a time when I didn't like it when my wife spoke about guys from her past. But then I realized that she was talking about them not to upset me but rather to share about herself and help me understand her better. So I got over it and now I welcome it. 

Of course it helps that I have no doubt she wants to be with me. She's consistently clear that none of her earlier relationships held a candle to what we have together. She was married once before, but to another woman. That shouldn't make it easier but somehow does. Must be a biological thing that I don't feel at all competitive. In fact, I've encouraged her to reach out to that ex. They weren't talking when we first met but I could feel that there was still love. They wound up reconnecting as friends and we invited her to our wedding. She's remained close friends with my wife and I consider her a friend too. 

Now don't get me wrong. If my wife was comparing me to old boyfriends, or putting down in relation to them, that wouldn't work for me at all. She's ok when I speak of my exes except that she sometimes get triggered when I speak of one who was very special. She sometimes feels insecure because what I had with that ex was really special in a certain way. I'm clear with her that that was then, that it wasn't sustainable, and I'd never want to go back. But she sometimes gets insecure anyway because it was an uncomplicated kind of young love that it's not possible to recreate later in life. I was the ex's first guy and she was my second girlfriend. So there was a very sweet and uncomplex quality -- until there wasn't. Ultimately she fell for another guy. So it's only the time when she was fully focused on me that's special in my heart. 

To have an amazing adult marriage that stands the test of time and that, in fact, gets better with time, is to me the most special kind of relationship of all. The fact that it's not as easy and simple as young love (in the beginning, in the thrall of infatuation) is just what's so. It's also "so what". Most of the time, my wife understands this. It's just in challenging moments that she forgets.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Parallax857 said:


> There was a time when I didn't like it when my wife spoke about guys from her past. But then I realized that she was talking about them not to upset me but rather to share about herself and help me understand her better. So I got over it and now I welcome it.
> 
> Of course it helps that I have no doubt she wants to be with me. She's consistently clear that none of her earlier relationships held a candle to what we have together. She was married once before, but to another woman. That shouldn't make it easier but somehow does. Must be a biological thing that I don't feel at all competitive. In fact, I've encouraged her to reach out to that ex. They weren't talking when we first met but I could feel that there was still love. They wound up reconnecting as friends and we invited her to our wedding. She's remained close friends with my wife and I consider her a friend too.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong. If my wife was comparing me to old boyfriends, or putting down in relation to them, that wouldn't work for me at all. She's ok when I speak of my exes except that she sometimes get triggered when I speak of one who was very special. She sometimes feels insecure because what I had with that ex was really special in a certain way. I'm clear with her that that was then, that it wasn't sustainable, and I'd never want to go back. But she sometimes gets insecure anyway because it was an uncomplicated kind of young love that it's not possible to recreate later in life. I was the ex's first guy and she was my second girlfriend. So there was a very sweet and uncomplex quality -- until there wasn't. Ultimately she fell for another guy. So it's only the time when she was fully focused on me that's special in my heart.
> 
> To have an amazing adult marriage that stands the test of time and that, in fact, gets better with time, is to me the most special kind of relationship of all. The fact that it's not as easy and simple as young love (in the beginning, in the thrall of infatuation) is just what's so. It's also "so what". Most of the time, my wife understands this. It's just in challenging moments that she forgets.


I tolerated her talking about her past because it did make me feel closer to her, to know that part of her life, but it also ate me up inside due to the disparity in our experience so I ultimately had to establish a new boundary around that. That's 100% my issue, but I can no longer try to be cool with it just because that's the kind of guy I'd like to be. I'm not that kind of guy and I'm learning to be ok with that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> There was a time when I didn't like it when my wife spoke about guys from her past. But then I realized that she was talking about them not to upset me but rather to share about herself and help me understand her better. So I got over it and now I welcome it.
> 
> Of course it helps that I have no doubt she wants to be with me. She's consistently clear that none of her earlier relationships held a candle to what we have together. She was married once before, but to another woman. That shouldn't make it easier but somehow does. Must be a biological thing that I don't feel at all competitive. In fact, I've encouraged her to reach out to that ex. They weren't talking when we first met but I could feel that there was still love. They wound up reconnecting as friends and we invited her to our wedding. She's remained close friends with my wife and I consider her a friend too.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong. If my wife was comparing me to old boyfriends, or putting down in relation to them, that wouldn't work for me at all. She's ok when I speak of my exes except that she sometimes get triggered when I speak of one who was very special. She sometimes feels insecure because what I had with that ex was really special in a certain way. I'm clear with her that that was then, that it wasn't sustainable, and I'd never want to go back. But she sometimes gets insecure anyway because it was an uncomplicated kind of young love that it's not possible to recreate later in life. I was the ex's first guy and she was my second girlfriend. So there was a very sweet and uncomplex quality -- until there wasn't. Ultimately she fell for another guy. So it's only the time when she was fully focused on me that's special in my heart.
> 
> To have an amazing adult marriage that stands the test of time and that, in fact, gets better with time, is to me the most special kind of relationship of all. The fact that it's not as easy and simple as young love (in the beginning, in the thrall of infatuation) is just what's so. It's also "so what". Most of the time, my wife understands this. It's just in challenging moments that she forgets.


That's the thing about RJ. It isn't very rational a lot of times. I have an incredibly strong marriage of 32 years and my wife has never given me pause to think she is anything but 100% loyal and faithful to me. She has never compared me to her ex other than to tell me how much better of a man I am. She is clear that what she did shortly after we met was stupid and regrets it more than anything in her life. Yet, physical things would still send incredible emotion through me and cause hurt and pain. 

We can't always control how we feel, but I am thankful that my wife cares so deeply for me that she will do most anything for me without hesitation. That includes getting rid of physical things from her past. They have far, far less value to her than our relationship. I think that is how a caring spouse reacts to a partner that is hurt by something. Even something as small as a picture of an ex. I mean, is that picture really more valuable than your 30 year marriage and your spouse's contentment?


----------



## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> I tolerated her talking about her past because it did make me feel closer to her, to know that part of her life, but it also ate me up inside due to the disparity in our experience so I ultimately had to establish a new boundary around that. That's 100% my issue, but I can no longer try to be cool with it just because that's the kind of guy I'd like to be. I'm not that kind of guy and I'm learning to be ok with that.


Makes sense. I don't think it's ever a good idea to try to be more enlightened or more secure or together than one really is. Far better to be real (with a willingness to be vulnerable).


----------



## Parallax857

BigDaddyNY said:


> That's the thing about RJ. It isn't very rational a lot of times. I have an incredibly strong marriage of 32 years and my wife has never given me pause to think she is anything but 100% loyal and faithful to me. She has never compared me to her ex other than to tell me how much better of a man I am. She is clear that what she did shortly after we met was stupid and regrets it more than anything in her life. Yet, physical things would still send incredible emotion through me and cause hurt and pain.
> 
> We can't always control how we feel, but I am thankful that my wife cares so deeply for me that she will do most anything for me without hesitation. That includes getting rid of physical things from her past. They have far, far less value to her than our relationship. I think that is how a caring spouse reacts to a partner that is hurt by something. Even something as small as a picture of an ex. I mean, is that picture really more valuable than your 30 year marriage and your spouse's contentment?


I agree. I think it's very kind of her to be willing to get rid of those things that trigger you. I don't think a spouse has to. She would be within her rights to tell you that those things have value and that she's not willing to surrender them. But if she can do it for you in a way that doesn't leave her feeling resentful, so much the better. If it's given freely and voluntarily, it can be a beautiful expression of love. 

I totally get how the early "affair" could be hard to get over. I put it in quotes because I think you said you guys weren't get dating exclusively at that time so she didn't cheat on you. Just the same, it was not smart on her part and I get why it creates a sense of jealousy. I'm sure I would feel similarly. If she regrets it and would never do it again, I think it makes sense that you let go of it. People make mistakes. If they come out the other side more committed to the relationship, it can actually make the new relationship stronger. Just the same, you deserve a lot of credit. Takes a big man to let go of something so painful.


----------



## ElOtro

As'laDain said:


> A boundary is what _*you*_ are willing to do in order to protect yourself. The second you start dictating what someone else has to do for your "boundary", it's not a boundary.


You are partially right and you also fully contradict yourself.
To keep or not a pic is fully in the domain oh her freedom.
To keep or not the marriage _given that pic_ is an excercise of his own freedom.
Other one´s opinions about the importance of the pic (includding mine, yours and his wife´s one)
should be as irrelevant for him as you propose his opinion should be for his wife.

That said (in terms consistent with _your _viewpoint) I´ll add that when is about a relationship and not only about each one, people may want to set common boundaries to protect not merely individuals but the team.
In some cases they may happen to be unable to have shared boundaries as they don´t hold same criteria on important things. That may also say that they are not compatible enough to make the of the marriage a valubale one.


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## Evinrude58

A woman that adored her husband wouldn’t keep a picture from the past if she knew it hurt him. She also wouldn’t bring up the other man…. But compare her husband to him?
Hell, that’s not in the vocabulary of a loving wife. 

OP isn’t upset about only a picture that keeps popping up, he’s upset at what he feels is lacking in his wife’s feelings for him. 

His wife is acting poorly.


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## Sfort

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree, but thanks to talking to some members here, I'm confident that RJ was triggered by the infidelity, so they kind of have the same source.


Yes, they do, and the emotions are very much alike. The difference is that the a partner absolutely has a right to be hurt by infidelity. With RJ, the partner was not even in the picture and had nothing to do with the other person's actions.


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## BigDaddyNY

Sfort said:


> Yes, they do, and the emotions are very much alike. The difference is that the a partner absolutely has a right to be hurt by infidelity. With RJ, the partner was not even in the picture and had nothing to do with the other person's actions.


Yes, but since the same person is the source of the jealousy caused by an event during the new relationship it casts a whole different light on the other events in the previous relationship. My situation is a little bit of a gray are since we hadn't explicitly talked about being exclusive yet, even though I felt it was implied, so here's a hypothetical. Imagine your wife's ex that you had no issue with and there were some physical mementos still hanging around, like an old photo or two, or maybe a prom dress, lol. Now imagine she cheated on you with that ex in year 5 of your marriage, a ONS, and you decide to reconcile. Would it really be RJ that drives you to want to purge every scrap of evidence that person existed from your life? I don't think it would be.

In @loblawbobblog case it isn't infidelity in a classic sense. However, talking about the ex throughout your marriage, somewhat pining over his passion, then leaving an old pic of him in a bedroom dresser sure feels infidelity-like to me. As others have said, it certainly seems rather disrespectful. So is he suffering from RJ, in which case his wife would bear no responsibility for, since it all happened before they were together? This seems like something else, something much more real and tangible than RJ.


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## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> I agree. I think it's very kind of her to be willing to get rid of those things that trigger you. I don't think a spouse has to. She would be within her rights to tell you that those things have value and that she's not willing to surrender them. But if she can do it for you in a way that doesn't leave her feeling resentful, so much the better. If it's given freely and voluntarily, it can be a beautiful expression of love.
> 
> I totally get how the early "affair" could be hard to get over. I put it in quotes because I think you said you guys weren't get dating exclusively at that time so she didn't cheat on you. Just the same, it was not smart on her part and I get why it creates a sense of jealousy. I'm sure I would feel similarly. If she regrets it and would never do it again, I think it makes sense that you let go of it. People make mistakes. If they come out the other side more committed to the relationship, it can actually make the new relationship stronger. Just the same, you deserve a lot of credit. Takes a big man to let go of something so painful.


I agree with @Evinrude58 on this. I do agree that it would be within my wife's rights to say those things had value and she wouldn't have to get rid of them. But the message that sends is those objects, those mere things, have more value than my feelings. I think any good, loving wife (or husband) would toss that stuff out in a heartbeat if they could see it was causing emotional pain and stress in their spouse. Yes it should be done freely and without resentment. If she were to do so and then be resentful, that also sends the same message loud and clear.

Maybe the "affair" has influenced my wife, but for whatever reason, she did not hesitate for a moment to put my feelings above those objects. I think that is a sign of a woman committed to her husband on all levels. Any other reaction would make me question her commitment to the marriage and to me.

The key is you have to clearly communicate how you are feeling about those things to you spouse. I firmly believe it needs to come from the heart, and not with any anger. If he opens himself up to her and she responds with anything other than a loving and caring attitude and a willingness to help him, then there are issues in the marriage. If I were @loblawbobblog I would be telling my wife, look, we are on the verge of a new relationship dynamic, an empty nest. I want us to stay strong and have a good time with just you and me again. I know you have a past, but I'm not feeling comfortable with finding that photo, especially in our bedroom. Accident or not it has triggered strong emotions in me and I need you to get rid of it. I want you here in the present and even though your past makes you the woman I love, I will feel much more confident in myself and us if the physical remains of that past relationship are gone so it can be nothing but you and me. Maybe not those exact words, but that basic message. And I stand by my assertion, that a truly loving spouse won't hesitate to get rid of that photo. Again, if they don't they are telling you that memory and physical remnant of it has greater value than your feelings.


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## ABHale

As'laDain said:


> I do have a picture of one of my ex girlfriends and I kissing. I still keep it because it's from a time before I got married and it's one of the few things I own from my past. Looking at the photo makes it easier for me to remember a hell of a lot ore about that time in my life. My wife has seen it and never asked me to get rid of it.
> 
> Just because I have the picture and want to keep it does not mean that I wish I were with her today. I left her for a reason. But the picture reminds me of a hell of a lot more than just her.


There’s the catch. OP’s wife is wishing she was with her ex. Always demeaning OP. Saying things like my ex was better at everything. Except beating her I guess.


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## Sfort

For starters, I really don't think this discussion is a threadjack as the line of thinking could be helpful to OP. Having said that...



BigDaddyNY said:


> Imagine your wife's ex that you had no issue with and there were some physical mementos still hanging around, like an old photo or two, or maybe a prom dress, lol.


That's RJ and it's not. Constant reminders of her past could certainly be powerful triggers. In your example, keeping those triggers around now is _current_ jealousy, not _retroactive_ jealousy, and _current_ jealously is easily understood and very prevalent. Retroactive jealousy makes no sense and is very hard to understand.


BigDaddyNY said:


> Now imagine she cheated on you with that ex in year 5 of your marriage, a ONS, and you decide to reconcile.


That's betrayal which can be accompanied by _current_ jealousy.


BigDaddyNY said:


> Would it really be RJ that drives you to want to purge every scrap of evidence that person existed from your life?


Nope. They've morphed from being triggers for RJ to being reminders of betrayal.

The sad part is all of the above feels the same to the triggered person. Understanding the nature and source of the jealousy appears to help the person afflicted with it to deal with it.


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## The Middleman

loblawbobblog said:


> I had to ask her twice and she was evasive when I asked why it was there. That bothers me, don't know what else to say.


It sound to me like that photo is a good candidate for the shredder.


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## Personal

The Middleman said:


> It sound to me like that photo is a good candidate for the shredder.


I hope she keeps it, since she shouldn't feel compelled to have to erase her past to assuage @loblawbobblog's insecurities.


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## loblawbobblog

Personal said:


> I hope she keeps it, since she shouldn't feel compelled to have to erase her past to assuage @loblawbobblog's insecurities.


She is keeping it, I never asked her to throw it away, I just asked her to take it out of our bedroom and put it back in the old photo box in the garage.


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## ElOtro

Personal said:


> I hope she keeps it, since she shouldn't feel compelled to have to erase her past to assuage @loblawbobblog's insecurities.


_I hope he don´t keep her, since he shouldn't feel compelled to have to erase his desire of a valuable marriage to assuage her longing for a past love._


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## Parallax857

This seems silly. Beyond silly, farcical. I'm not seeing anything loblawbobblog's wife is doing wrong. I'm not reading what others are reading. It doesn't sound to me like she compares loblawbobblog to her earlier partner. At some points in time she expressed a desire for "more" from him. I don't know what that means but I'm not seeing a comparison other than one loblawbobblog imagines. She had an old photo in a sock drawer. That's all. 

There appear to be some communication issues between the spouses. That would be worthwhile to address. An opportunity to increase intimacy, in fact. But I don't get the assumption people are making or the encouragement for the OP to approach this with a big chip on his shoulder. We're talking about a long term marriage, a couple that has successfully raised children. There's no allegation that anyone has been unfaithful -- ever. 

I do think loblawbobblog should express his needs. I just think it needs to be done with humility. He should speak of his insecurity, his desire to understand why the photo was in the drawer, perhaps why it wasn't moved more quickly when he asked. But asked with curiousity. Like someone who wants to understand. In fact, it's really important to set aside one's judgments and assumptions, and rather to cultivate curiosity. 

I want to support this successful couple, with a long term successful marriage, to have more success. To have a more fulfilling marriage. To address a lack of understanding and intimacy. But not undermine the success they've had or the trust that exists. The OP has questions. That's fair enough. He has zero evidence that his wife has done anything wrong.


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## In Absentia

My haunch is that she keeps the photo in the drawer to masturbate over it when you are out of the house. Or, somehow, she is still in love with him. I don't really see any other explanation...


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## Parallax857

In Absentia said:


> My haunch is that she keeps the photo in the drawer to masturbate over it when you are out of the house. Or, somehow, she is still in love with him. I don't really see any other explanation...


I see that as an outrageous assumption. If your smiley face is meant to communicate that you're joking, then I've misread your post.


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## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> My haunch is that she keeps the photo in the drawer to masturbate over it when you are out of the house. Or, somehow, she is still in love with him. I don't really see any other explanation...


Enough of that (you dog, you)!


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## In Absentia

Parallax857 said:


> I see that as an outrageous assumption. If your smiley face is meant to communicate that you're joking, then I've misread your post.


yes, it's a jokey post... hence my smiley....  That said, I find it a bit odd she keeps that photo there. Problem? No.


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## Captain Obvious

Parallax857 said:


> This seems silly. Beyond silly, farcical. I'm not seeing anything loblawbobblog's wife is doing wrong. I'm not reading what others are reading. It doesn't sound to me like she compares loblawbobblog to her earlier partner. At some points in time she expressed a desire for "more" from him. I don't know what that means but I'm not seeing a comparison other than one loblawbobblog imagines. She had an old photo in a sock drawer. That's all.
> 
> There appear to be some communication issues between the spouses. That would be worthwhile to address. An opportunity to increase intimacy, in fact. But I don't get the assumption people are making or the encouragement for the OP to approach this with a big chip on his shoulder. We're talking about a long term marriage, a couple that has successfully raised children. There's no allegation that anyone has been unfaithful -- ever.
> 
> I do think loblawbobblog should express his needs. I just think it needs to be done with humility. He should speak of his insecurity, his desire to understand why the photo was in the drawer, perhaps why it wasn't moved more quickly when he asked. But asked with curiousity. Like someone who wants to understand. In fact, it's really important to set aside one's judgments and assumptions, and rather to cultivate curiosity.
> 
> I want to support this successful couple, with a long term successful marriage, to have more success. To have a more fulfilling marriage. To address a lack of understanding and intimacy. But not undermine the success they've had or the trust that exists. The OP has questions. That's fair enough. He has zero evidence that his wife has done anything wrong.


Stop looking at the assumptions and just look at the facts.
The picture is her and her ex-lover/bf, they had a volatile yet passionate relationship. The picture was always in a box in the garage. The picture made its way to his wife's sock drawer 3ft from where they sleep together. He asked his wife why the picture that has been forver in the garage is now in the sock drawer, and she was evasive about it and didn't remember. He asked her to remove the pic from the bedroom. One week later the pic was still there so he had to ask her again to remove it. At face value what she did was highly disrespectful to her husband.


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## TexasMom1216

I don’t think the picture is the problem. I think in a vacuum the picture probably wouldn’t have bugged the OP. But there’s a lot of history here of his wife taking about this relationship, almost reminiscing about an abuser, which is very odd to me. After years of talking about this guy, to hide the picture and then when confronted force her husband to ask her TWICE before she removed it? That is at best insensitive and at worst just deliberately unkind. I don’t think the OP was out of line saying “you’ve talked about this guy for years and now this picture is separated as a special keepsake and that hurts my feelings.” She may have reasons, there may be something going on, I don’t discount the idea about the baby. BUT she needs to express what’s going on because until she tells him differently I don’t feel his conclusions are out of line. There’s more to this than an old picture.


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## SunCMars

The Middleman said:


> It sound to me like that photo is a good candidate for the shredder.


Sure..

But his wife needs to do it, don't ya think?

Shred it with our OP witnessing it; that would be proper.

Uh yeah.



_Gwendolyn-_


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## Evinrude58

OP has no choice really but to talk further about it with his wife. Maybe it was about the pregnancy. I know that probably bothers her if she’s a good person. But she knows the picture is hurting you—- you asked for her to put it back—- she didn’t. She didn’t forget.
There’s really no way to put this behind you unless you talk to your wife and come away from the conversation satisfied. 
Your wife should realize that the man she once knew is not gonna be some white knight she’s still going to love. But the memory of him may still hold a lot of sway, and that’s what is hurting you OP.

There’s nothing to do but talk to her about it and listen, don’t get angry, answer her do the talking. Don’t ask questions, but maybe prompt her to get what you want to know in a way that will keep her open so maybe you can get to the whole truth.

Hopefulky you can come away from the conversation feeling you can put this in the past.


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## SunCMars

There are many cultures that will not allow you to take their picture.

The Amish, some Native Americans, the Australian Aborigines, and others in Africa, and the Amazon.

Some of them feel their souls are trapped in those photos.

I, 100% agree. We are our image.

Staring at a photo allows you to do whatever pleases you, without safeguards.

Our bodies live in the physical world, our essence resides, in part, in the Ether.



_King Brian-_ A photo of me cannot be had; no film can capture magic. Those who see me are given that privilege.


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## Quad73

@loblawbobblog HIGHLY recommend you read this thread. The excellent outcome was due to the H's new-found assertiveness and passion for his marriage. W respects him more, and gets it. W is awake and re-energized. W does not feel he was controlling, in retrospect - - - 









Wife talking to an ex - with a lot of history


My wife (N) and I (both 38) have been married for almost 10 years. We have 4 children together. She was always close with the father of an ex and he recently passed away. The Ex then reached out to N and they have been Facebook messaging constantly for the past 3 weeks. This is a guy who cheated...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Parallax857

That kind of assertiveness is a recipe for disaster. It's fine to want to be understood. Part and parcel of that is a willingness to understand one's spouse. When we make demands, it's toxic to love. Someone may acquiesce but one pays a price. Usually in the form of unspoken resentment. Over time, resentment undermines connection and destroys marriage.


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## Evinrude58

Parallax857 said:


> That kind of assertiveness is a recipe for disaster. It's fine to want to be understood. Part and parcel of that is a willingness to understand one's spouse. When we make demands, it's toxic to love. Someone may acquiesce but one pays a price. Usually in the form of unspoken resentment. Over time, resentment undermines connection and destroys marriage.


I would agree with one exception: one spouse allowing another person into the marriage. And that’s what Is happening in the mentioned thread and with this one. OP’s wife has put another person into the marriage, whether it’s the person or the person’s memory. I can tell you from experience that even the memory of another person can be detrimental to a marriage if that memory is one that motivates action in the present and future. OP has every right to go apeshit over her having another man’s picture in their bedroom.
F that BS. If she has resentment over not having this other man in her sock drawer, so be it. Resentment over that is due to a lack of empathy AND love for her husband.

so I respectfully disagree in this instance….


----------



## In Absentia

Parallax857 said:


> That kind of assertiveness is a recipe for disaster. It's fine to want to be understood. Part and parcel of that is a willingness to understand one's spouse. When we make demands, it's toxic to love. Someone may acquiesce but one pays a price. Usually in the form of unspoken resentment. Over time, resentment undermines connection and destroys marriage.


It's the lack of a proper explanation which is fuelling the OP's distrust. He is not making "demands". He's asked his wife to remove the photo from the drawer. Perfectly understandable and far from toxic.


----------



## Dillinger

Burn it with fire.


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> It's the lack of a proper explanation which is fuelling the OP's distrust. He is not making "demands". He's asked his wife to remove the photo from the drawer. Perfectly understandable and far from toxic.


I am pretty sure if OP had put a picture of one of his old flames in his wallet or nightstand and his wife discovered, she would not be a happy camper. Especially if she asked him to put the picture back in the box up in the attic and discovered a week later it was still in his wallet. If when she asked him about it he gave her some BS answer, things would be even more out of control.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Rus47 said:


> I am pretty sure if OP had put a picture of one of his old flames in his wallet or nightstand and his wife discovered, she would not be a happy camper. Especially if she asked him to put the picture back in the box up in the attic and discovered a week later it was still in his wallet. If when she asked him about it he gave her some BS answer, things would be even more out of control.


Yes exactly. A lot of "you go girl" energy in some of these responses. I don't get it. I'd be on the side of a wife who's husband kept a photo of his ex every time. This ain't about sexism.


----------



## jsmart

Hey @loblawbobblog , earlier I asked how have things been between the two of you in the past few weeks and since the 2 confrontations about the pic? Have you 2 been communicating like normal or is their a strain or distance now. You have been really vague on your relationship. The more info you provide, the better the picture we will have and can hence provide better advice. I think we are making assumptions in both directions that are causing us to post in wildly different directions.

so tell us, how is your sex life, emotional closeness? Are you both loving towards each other? Has it gotten weird since the kids moved out? Do they live nearby and visit often or are they far and too busy with their lives? Are you taking her out on date nights? You get the picture. Help us help you.


----------



## Personal

SunCMars said:


> There are many cultures that will not allow you to take their picture.
> 
> The Amish, some Native Americans, the Australian Aborigines, and others in Africa, and the Amazon.


That isn’t true for any of the Aboriginal Australians I know.


----------



## loblawbobblog

jsmart said:


> Hey @loblawbobblog , earlier I asked how have things been between the two of you in the past few weeks and since the 2 confrontations about the pic? Have you 2 been communicating like normal or is their a strain or distance now. You have been really vague on your relationship. The more info you provide, the better the picture we will have and can hence provide better advice. I think we are making assumptions in both directions that are causing us to post in wildly different directions.
> 
> so tell us, how is your sex life, emotional closeness? Are you both loving towards each other? Has it gotten weird since the kids moved out? Do they live nearby and visit often or are they far and too busy with their lives? Are you taking her out on date nights? You get the picture. Help us help you.


I've been going through serious midlife crisis BS and I'm sure that has influenced my reaction to finding the picture. I get waves of crushing regret throughout the day that almost take me down. I've had a hard time focusing at work. Our marriage has been stronger in the past 5 years than it ever has been, but part of my midlife crisis is realizing how badly we communicate with each other. I've attempted to reach out to her in deeper, more intimate and transparent ways but she's been taken aback by this new openness. "This isn't the man I married" she told me during one of these attempted conversations. I don't expect her to turn on a dime just because I'm going through something, but it has been frustrating. 

We do go out on date nights regularly, we spent a great week in Mexico in January, our sex life is decent but I wouldn't say it's great. Our two youngest kids (20 and 18) are still at home but quite independent as kids of that age are typically. My wife is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for work for the first time since the kids were little. She's been a stay at home mom since 2005. It's just a time of a lot of change and my anxiety levels have been off the charts.


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## SunCMars

loblawbobblog said:


> I've been going through serious midlife crisis BS and I'm sure that has influenced my reaction to finding the picture. I get waves of crushing regret throughout the day that almost take me down. I've had a hard time focusing at work. Our marriage has been stronger in the past 5 years than it ever has been, but part of my midlife crisis is realizing how badly we communicate with each other. I've attempted to reach out to her in deeper, more intimate and transparent ways but she's been taken aback by this new openness. "This isn't the man I married" she told me during one of these attempted conversations. I don't expect her to turn on a dime just because I'm going through something, but it has been frustrating.
> 
> We do go out on date nights regularly, we spent a great week in Mexico in January, our sex life is decent but I wouldn't say it's great. Our two youngest kids (20 and 18) are still at home but quite independent as kids of that age are typically. My wife is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for work for the first time since the kids were little. She's been a stay at home mom since 2005. It's just a time of a lot of change and my anxiety levels have been off the charts.


This new information is even more troubling.

By writing below, I am adding to your anxiety.
Sorry.

For example:

1) She is taken aback by your openness. You have surprised her. In a good way, or bad way, what do you say?

2) She said, You aren't the man I married. This sounds like a complaint, or a veiled threat.

3) She is finishing her degree and will soon be self-sufficient. Is she planning on leaving the nest?

4) That (old flame) picture she kept in her sock drawer, it is obvious she was reminiscing. That has been adequately discussed.

5) You are going thru your own mid-life-crisis. She might be also be going through hers. 
After so many years living together, husbands and wives lock in their idiosyncrasies and habits.
Without question, your fates are linked, tight together.

Her anxiety, is it as bad as yours?

I see a worrisome pattern here, I hope I am wrong.

Stay alert, read the signs.


You will soon discover if she is planning on moving out, now that the kids are out of the house and she will be now be working. This is a common time for that to happen.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> I get waves of *crushing regret throughout the day *that almost take me down. I've had a hard time focusing at work.





loblawbobblog said:


> *"This isn't the man I married"* she told me during one of these attempted conversations.





loblawbobblog said:


> It's just a time of a lot of change and *my anxiety levels* have been off the charts.


Suspect most people by middle age have a lot of regrets built up. But "crushing", hard to focus at work, anxiety off of the charts is concerning. Never having had any of those symptoms have no useful advice, Maybe a conversation with your primary care doctor about it for starters, as maybe he could refer you to a specialist. He also ought to do a workup to rule out physical issues, blood testing for thyroid etc.

With these things roiling through your head the wife gazing at pictures of old friends and telling you "This isn't the man I married" doesn't help. Take her with you when you visit the doctor. She needs to be engaged in issues you are facing. You and her are a team, and the team faces things together.


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## TexasMom1216

She could have her own issues. Her kids are all grown and she has no idea what to do with the rest of her life. Women also struggle at the end of their lives.


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## jsmart

I’m sensing some fear in you. Does your wife getting her degree and hitting the work world fill you with a anxiety? For decades you were the sole provider, which gives us men a sense of purpose and pride but now your wife will be more independent and less reliant on you. It’s easy for that to make you fearful of losing her. 

I don’t want to throw additional fuel on the fire raging in your mind but a SAHM going back to work after many years of being home is very vulnerable. We have so many threads from BHs who had wives who ended up in sexual affairs within months of starting work.

Our wives know us very well. She can smell your insecurity a mile away. Her saying she doesn’t recognize her husband tells me she’s turned off of you showing your vulnerable side. A woman being soft and vulnerable is a powerful attraction for us men but the opposite is not true. It’s important for you to work on having a full life that has purpose that doesn’t revolve around her. She has been busy on making changes in her life but I’m guessing that you have stagnated.

We also have a ton of Threads of wives that thought they were to good for their husband shortly after they graduated and started their career. That the husband paid for, cheered her on, and took on more of the housework to enable her counts for very little.

In your situation, I recommend that you work on yourself. Get yourself in shape. Start connecting with other men to do things that can help you regain your inner warrior that has been crushed out of him after decades of marriage. I’m not talking about drinking while watching a game. ( that’s ok in moderation). I’m talking about activities that get you out and doing Something physical like hunting, fishing, martial arts, CrossFit, road or mountain biking, etc. Also if you can do something to further your career, pursue it. Lastly, just because your kids are older and doing their thing, doesn’t mean you can’t do things with them as well. Like the activities I mentioned above. I’m sure they wouldn’t mind spending time with their old man doing cool activities.


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## Rus47

TexasMom1216 said:


> She could have her own issues. Her kids are all grown and she has no idea what to do with the rest of her life. Women also struggle at the end of their lives.


For sure. There are abundant examples in these forums of both genders having MId or Late Life crises. In this case the OPs wife is getting a degree and going to work for first time in 18 years. If she didn’t have some anxiety I would be surprised.

The answer is for a couple to deal with these times collaborating. Helping one another, being one another’s “wingman”. Spending time talking with and LISTENING to one another.


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## SunCMars

A lot of anxiety is showing up, so true, and so thoroughly evident.

Is it yours, or is it ours, breaking through?
Are we writing the script?
The script so feared.
Hmm?


_The Typist-_


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## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> 1. I get waves of crushing regret throughout the day that almost take me down.
> 
> 2 Realizing how badly we communicate with each other.
> 
> 3. She's been taken aback by this new openness. "This isn't the man I married"
> 
> 4. Our sex life is decent but I wouldn't say it's great.
> 
> 5. My wife is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for work for the first time since the kids were little.


Taking these one by one:

1. What are you regretting? (If you don't mind my asking.)

2. Your other comments have left a strong impression that the communication is not great. It can be fixed. It's a skill that people have to learn. No one teaches this stuff in high school or college. The challenge is it takes two. If she's not willing, you'll have to decide if it can still be the kind of relationship you want.

3. She's right that you're not the man she married. That's good. You're learning and growing. I hope you continue to learn and grow and I wish that for her too. In my opinion, that's a really important part of life. We can learn and grow right up until we die or go into dementia. It's concerning that she's put off by these changes. I hope it doesn't indicate an unwillingness to go on this journey of growth with you.

4. Decent is a great starting point. Sex is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to relationships. The fact that it's still decent means there's not a huge wall between the two of you. I think better communication can make it great. Again, I hope she's willing to work with you toward that goal.

5. That's great. It shows that she's on a growth trajectory too. As others have pointed out, it may give her the resources to leave you if she wants to but that's fine. If she doesn't want to be with you, the sooner you find out and move on the better. (I know; easy for me to say. But I've been through two divorces of my own so I speak from experience.) Both my ex-wives left me. It was hard at the time but I'm grateful now. I'm also a divorce attorney and have guided many hundreds (probably thousands) through this gauntlet. If things go that way, it's sad and painful, a death of sorts. But on the other side lies a rebirth. If you can make the marriage great, God bless you. If you can't, it's ok to move on.

It can also make divorce a lot easier if both spouses are making a decent living. I don't know the law in the state where you live and I can't give legal advice in this setting regardless. So I'll just say that more resources in the family system opens more options and that's good.

I hope the two of you find ways to work together and make your marriage everything you both want. But it you can't, it's not the end of the world if the marriage ends. If you do your work, you can have the kind of relationship you want. Whether it's with your wife or someone else is going to depend a lot on the choices she makes (and your own too of course).


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## ABHale

Do you know if your wife has been in contact with her ex?


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## happiness27

re16 said:


> I assume it is ok to cheat also? C'mon. Feelings are one thing... A picture in your sock drawer... totally uncalled for. Pining over an ex is not ok, and that is exactly what is happening.


It's not love to "own" your partner. I'm sure I'll have the minority opinion on that, though.


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## happiness27

Rob_1 said:


> Jesus, dude or dudette? are you for real? that advice is so lame that even my daughters (early twenties) after I told them about the situation and your comment, laugh about your pathetic comment. I guess that when your partner decides to do an ex, it will be for all times sake's, and you'll let your partner have his/her memories relieved one more time.


I don't follow the logic that a picture of an old flame automatically leads to a physical affair. There's any number of reasons why she has that photo stashed away. Thanks for your attempt to shame me for posting my opinion. The attempts that people make inside their marriages to control what their partner thinks is what is concerning here. Love isn''t something you receive because you are controlling the other person.


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## happiness27

re16 said:


> I assume it is ok to cheat also? C'mon. Feelings are one thing... A picture in your sock drawer... totally uncalled for. Pining over an ex is not ok, and that is exactly what is happening.


One thing doesn't lead to the other. None of us knows this couple's relationship. It's theirs and theirs to work out. Shaming a partner into only thinking about their partner is ludicrous, if not impossible. I can't even begin to list the number of threads here where men wave off their fantasies as "boys will be boys" - but, boy-howdy, if a woman dares to think about another man, now, well, THAT'S not okay. 
Don't even get me started on the word "monogamy" - guys are fantasizing whenever they want about whomever and their women are told "that's normal and doesn't mean anything" until she actually catches him physically in the act. 
I've been married a LONG time. And if it's one thing I've learned from a very long term relationship, it's that sex is something that belongs to the individual. None of us has the right to limit the other person's sex life. Oh, we can attempt that all we want, but it's a misguided understanding of what love is. Jealousy gets you no where. NO WHERE. It's just an ugly display of insecurity.


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## Blondilocks

happiness27 said:


> None of us has the right to limit the other person's sex life.


If I put a wedding ring on his finger, I most certainly do.


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## Evinrude58

I think OP should frame a picture of him and one of his exes, preferably a hot one in a bikini, and keep it on his night stand. And start working out and wearing sharp looking clothes whenever he leaves the house.


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## *Deidre*

It seems like this thread is turning into “the OP is so insecure, I would never be that insecure. My spouse has tons of pics of his/her exes and I’m soooo supportive.” lol Like some weird contest of who is more secure or something.

Again, the pic sounds like it’s a symptom of something deeper that has been going on in OP’s marriage. His wife has made him feel less than by comparing him to her ex for a while. The thread isn’t about how insecure the OP is because he can’t deal with a random pic of his wife’s ex found in her sock drawer.


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## jsmart

I agree with @*Deidre* that some of the shaming post are not helpful to the OP. Even though they’ve been together for 30 years seeing this pic has set him off. One thing that others shouldn’t forget is that this is not just an old boyfriend. She was engaged to the guy and was carrying his baby. She reluctantly ended the relationship and pregnancy only because of his out of control drug problem. It was not because she stopped loving him. So OP is dealing with an alpha widow type of situation. Not that her ex was some alpha but he had her complete heart and she has never fully recovered.

What man wants to live in the shadow of an ex. They raised a family and he’s been a good provider and it looks like he tries to be loving but for some reason he’s getting a vibe from that her that he isn’t enough.

He mentioned that the marriage has been better the last 5 years, which leads me to believe that it wasn’t so hot before. I wish he would elaborate on the not so good times and how long the low lasted. I hope that he wasn’t being betrayed for a season and wasn’t aware of it.


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## Dillinger

Put the pic of her and him in your sock drawer, and then have no idea how it got there.


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## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> I think OP should frame a picture of him and one of his exes, preferably a hot one in a bikini, and keep it on his night stand. And start working out and wearing sharp looking clothes whenever he leaves the house.


I think part of the problem is she is OP's first real relationship, so a comparable doesn't exist on his end.


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## loblawbobblog

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think part of the problem is she is OP's first real relationship, so a comparable doesn't exist on his end.


Bingo.


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think part of the problem is she is OP's first real relationship, so a comparable doesn't exist on his end.


That is what photo editing is for. He can create a photo of him next to a Pam Anderson lookalike. That would get wife's attention 

Apologies, it is silly, but couldn't resist.


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## Rus47

So how would the experts on here recommend for @loblawbobblog to process and recover from the feelings he is having during this phase of his marriage? 

He has a lot going on during a time of life that would be difficult and challenging without any of these "extras" provided by the wife. He has a lot to process even if there isn't some huge unwelcome surprise waiting around the corner. The crushing regrets, difficulty working, severe anxiety, the wife beginning work, the comments she has made, now this latest insult with a photo of the "bad boy" in her past.

This goes way beyond a photo of an old flame. What should he do, in what order, and how can he get his wife involved with solving THEIR issues?


----------



## ABHale

happiness27 said:


> One thing doesn't lead to the other. None of us knows this couple's relationship. It's theirs and theirs to work out. Shaming a partner into only thinking about their partner is ludicrous, if not impossible. I can't even begin to list the number of threads here where men wave off their fantasies as "boys will be boys" - but, boy-howdy, if a woman dares to think about another man, now, well, THAT'S not okay.
> Don't even get me started on the word "monogamy" - guys are fantasizing whenever they want about whomever and their women are told "that's normal and doesn't mean anything" until she actually catches him physically in the act.
> I've been married a LONG time. And if it's one thing I've learned from a very long term relationship, it's that sex is something that belongs to the individual. None of us has the right to limit the other person's sex life. Oh, we can attempt that all we want, but it's a misguided understanding of what love is. Jealousy gets you no where. NO WHERE. It's just an ugly display of insecurity.


What are you talking about! What does this have to do with OP’s situation?

His wife has continuously compared him to her ex, saying how much better he was. He got pissed when he found a pic of them together in her sock draw, a pic that was in storage in the garage the last he knew.

With her demeaning him for years, OP had every right to be pissed.

I honestly believe OP should pack his wife’s bags up and drop her off at her ex’s place. Telling her to have fun with her him. If that is what she is longing for, she can have him.


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## Parallax857

jsmart said:


> I agree with @*Deidre* that some of the shaming post are not helpful to the OP. Even though they’ve been together for 30 years seeing this pic has set him off. One thing that others shouldn’t forget is that this is not just an old boyfriend. She was engaged to the guy and was carrying his baby. She reluctantly ended the relationship and pregnancy only because of his out of control drug problem. It was not because she stopped loving him. So OP is dealing with an alpha widow type of situation. Not that her ex was some alpha but he had her complete heart and she has never fully recovered.
> 
> What man wants to live in the shadow of an ex. They raised a family and he’s been a good provider and it looks like he tries to be loving but for some reason he’s getting a vibe from that her that he isn’t enough.
> 
> He mentioned that the marriage has been better the last 5 years, which leads me to believe that it wasn’t so hot before. I wish he would elaborate on the not so good times and how long the low lasted. I hope that he wasn’t being betrayed for a season and wasn’t aware of it.


That's a whole lot of assumptions. We've no idea if any of that's true.


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## Dillinger

My responses have been way too trite. Seems like some difficult conversations need to happen, but there is a way forward that will require lots of communication. I know she hasn't seemed up for it but I don't know how else you get around it. 
The picture itself isn't the issue. It's the communication around the picture that is the problem.


----------



## Parallax857

Rus47 said:


> So how would the experts on here recommend for @loblawbobblog to process and recover from the feelings he is having during this phase of his marriage?
> 
> He has a lot going on during a time of life that would be difficult and challenging without any of these "extras" provided by the wife. He has a lot to process even if there isn't some huge unwelcome surprise waiting around the corner. The crushing regrets, difficulty working, severe anxiety, the wife beginning work, the comments she has made, now this latest insult with a photo of the "bad boy" in her past.
> 
> This goes way beyond a photo of an old flame. What should he do, in what order, and how can he get his wife involved with solving THEIR issues?


He says he has regrets. I'm wondering what those regrets are. Is this something only he can work through on his own or is something that he can reasonably ask his wife to help with. I don't think we know enough to propose solutions other than for them to work on their communication. They seem to very much not be on the same page. The OP has made it sound like the wife might not be willing to engage in couples counseling. But the only way to know is to ask.


----------



## Parallax857

ABHale said:


> What are you talking about! What does this have to do with OP’s situation?
> 
> His wife has continuously compared him to her ex, saying how much better he was. He got pissed when he found a pic of them together in her sock draw, a pic that was in storage in the garage the last he knew.
> 
> With her demeaning him for years, OP had every right to be pissed.
> 
> I honestly believe OP should pack his wife’s bags up and drop her off at her ex’s place. Telling her to have fun with her him. If that is what she is longing for, she can have him.


I didn't see any place in the thread where he said she was contemptuously comparing him to her ex. I heard him say that she had once been really hung up on the guy. That the breakup was traumatic. That at various points during the relationship she said she wanted "more" from him, but we don't know what that meant to her and we have no reason to believe it's because she wants him to be more like the ex. People hypothesized that's what she was saying but it does not appear to have been presented by her that way. Lastly, she left an old photo in a sock drawer and then, when asked to remove it, didn't do so right away (though it was eventually moved). 

When the OP posted more about the situation, it sounded like there was a lot more to this. His regrets and insecurities. His wife's perplexity regarding his questions. The fact that they haven't had a lot of intimate conversation. I doubt we can be particularly helpful. I think they have to decide if they want to defend their marriage and, if so, how. If they want to work through this, they should probably both do individual counseling and they should do couples counseling together.


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## Parallax857

Dillinger said:


> My responses have been way too trite. Seems like some difficult conversations need to happen, but there is a way forward that will require lots of communication. I know she hasn't seemed up for it but I don't know how else you get around it.
> The picture itself isn't the issue. It's the communication around the picture that is the problem.


This I agree with.


----------



## wmn1

happiness27 said:


> Yes, you are wrong to be bothered by this. Let her have her memory. These kinds of things are just b.s. and might speak to her feelings of getting older - having nothing to do with her feelings for you. PEOPLE in general can have feelings for more than one person and it has nothing to do with her feelings for you - any more than you having nostalgic thoughts about your former girlfriends at any given time has anything to do with your feelings for her. You embarrassed her and made something shameful out it. Be loving and secure instead and she will be more open with you instead of feeling secretive and shameful.


this is a completely BS response. 

You ignore the main point here but of course,t here always has to be one to make some show


----------



## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think part of the problem is she is OP's first real relationship, so a comparable doesn't exist on his end.


I’m sure that’s a big part of their problem. She probably was attracted to the OP because he was a straight shooter who would be a safe person to raise a family and not get burned. Problem is that such an unequal love life pairing doesn’t usually work well when it’s the guy who has less experience. Especially in a case when the wit was deeply in love with her ex. Alpha widow. 

They’ve had a long And fruitful marriage but OP says it was only in the past 5 years that its been good. He hasn’t elaborated on the not so good times. How long they lasted and what were the causes and what helped turn things around. 

In your case, your wife proved through her actions that she was ride or die with you. I don’t think the OP has ever gotten that level of loving assurance from his wife. Some may say, hey, she’s with him all these years and gave him 3 kids but when your self esteem is shot because you think your wife’s heart is not completely open or that she has shut a piece of her heart for her ex, you will struggle.


----------



## Parallax857

jsmart said:


> I’m sure that’s a big part of their problem. She probably was attracted to the OP because he was a straight shooter who would be a safe person to raise a family and not get burned. Problem is that such an unequal love life pairing doesn’t usually work well when it’s the guy who has less experience. Especially in a case when the wit was deeply in love with her ex. Alpha widow.


Could not disagree more. It's not about the past. It's about there here and now. There are couples that have incredible long term marriages even though one partner was a virgin when they met. That person is often the man. There are a lot of kind, caring men who come to dating slowly. Young women can pretty easily get sex if they want it. That's not true for guys. Ten percent of the guys get 75% of the sex. The rest of us scramble for what's left. Some fellas struggle more than others. 

At a certain point, women begin to realize that kindness and stability are great qualities in a guy. Particularly if they were previously in relationships with jerks. So it's not uncommon for a beautiful young woman to go from dating players to finding one sincere man. I know a couple that's been together more than 30 years. She came to the relationship with a 3 year old child sired by an earlier guy who we can call the sperm donor. He wasn't responsible in any way, shape or form, as a partner or as a father. A few years later, she met her husband. By then, she was 21 years old, incredibly beautiful, and he was a nerdy 20 year old. They fell in love. They decided to marry. He's adopted the first child and they've had three other sons together. So it was a family with four children, all male. 

They have loved each other from day one and they still do. They idealize each other. He recently referred to her as "Saint Ashley" at a gathering. I know them because I was friends with this woman's parents. I once asked her how she went from that first guy, who was such a creep, to her husband, who's so solid. She said, "I grew up. I decided I wanted a man." I asked him what the secret of their marriage is. He said something about being a nerd and feeling lucky to have scored a woman so smart and beautiful. He opened his heart to the first son and treated him no differently than the three who are biologically related. Had he shared your view that the guy has to be more experienced, he'd have missed out on so much.


----------



## ABHale

Parallax857 said:


> That's a whole lot of assumptions. We've no idea if any of that's true.


Actually we do.


----------



## ABHale

Parallax857 said:


> Could not disagree more. It's not about the past. It's about there here and now. There are couples that have incredible long term marriages even though one partner was a virgin when they met. That person is often the man. There are a lot of kind, caring men who come to dating slowly. Young women can pretty easily get sex if they want it. That's not true for guys. Ten percent of the guys get 75% of the sex. The rest of us scramble for what's left. Some fellas struggle more than others.
> 
> At a certain point, women begin to realize that kindness and stability are great qualities in a guy. Particularly if they were previously in relationships with jerks. So it's not uncommon for a beautiful young woman to go from dating players to finding one sincere man. I know a couple that's been together more than 30 years. She came to the relationship with a 3 year old child sired by an earlier guy who we can call the sperm donor. He wasn't responsible in any way, shape or form, as a partner or as a father. A few years later, she met her husband. By then, she was 21 years old, incredibly beautiful, and he was a nerdy 20 year old. They fell in love. They decided to marry. He's adopted the first child and they've had three other sons together. So it was a family with four children, all male.
> 
> They have loved each other from day one and they still do. They idealize each other. He recently referred to her as "Saint Ashley" at a gathering. I know them because I was friends with this woman's parents. I once asked her how she went from that first guy, who was such a creep, to her husband, who's so solid. She said, "I grew up. I decided I wanted a man." I asked him what the secret of their marriage is. He said something about being a nerd and feeling lucky to have scored a woman so smart and beautiful. He opened his heart to the first son and treated him no differently than the three who are biologically related. Had he shared your view that the guy has to be more experienced, he'd have missed out on so much.


You really enjoy attacking anyone with a different opinion then you.


----------



## ABHale

Seeing how OP’s wife isn’t here, I am just giving advice for OP.


----------



## ABHale

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes, this makes the most sense to me out of all the responses. Like I said earlier, I know way too many details about their relationship, it was volatile but very passionate and she has continued to mention this guy occasionally throughout our 30 years together, including during a recent date night. She has unresolved feelings about their time together.


How long did she continuously talk about her ex when you started dating?

How does she bring him up since then?

What does she say?

Has she told the truth about how the photo got to her sock draw?


----------



## Parallax857

ABHale said:


> You really enjoy attacking anyone with a different opinion then you.


I'm not attacking you. I'm disagreeing. There's a difference.


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## ABHale

Parallax857 said:


> I'm not attacking you. I'm disagreeing. There's a difference.



Not with the way you disagree. Stay off my post and I will stay off yours.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I've been going through serious midlife crisis BS and I'm sure that has influenced my reaction to finding the picture. I get waves of crushing regret throughout the day that almost take me down. I've had a hard time focusing at work. Our marriage has been stronger in the past 5 years than it ever has been, but part of my midlife crisis is realizing how badly we communicate with each other. I've attempted to reach out to her in deeper, more intimate and transparent ways but she's been taken aback by this new openness. "This isn't the man I married" she told me during one of these attempted conversations. I don't expect her to turn on a dime just because I'm going through something, but it has been frustrating.
> 
> We do go out on date nights regularly, we spent a great week in Mexico in January, our sex life is decent but I wouldn't say it's great. Our two youngest kids (20 and 18) are still at home but quite independent as kids of that age are typically. My wife is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for work for the first time since the kids were little. She's been a stay at home mom since 2005. It's just a time of a lot of change and my anxiety levels have been off the charts.


Man, I can completely sympathize. There are differences, but our similarities are striking. The past relationship imbalance seems very nearly the same, we've been together roughly the same amounts of time, we only have 2 kids, but they are 2 years apart like your youngest 2. And I started having some of the same feelings you are describing when my kids were 18 and 20 and either in, or starting college. I was genuinely scared, and she didn't tell me at the time, but my wife was very afraid too. She had almost the same thoughts as me, what are we going to do and say without the kids around? Do we really even know just each other anymore? One difference, and a significant one, is that my wife was a SAHM until our youngest was around 12, so she had started her new career about 6 years prior to the impending empty nest. I think your wife going back to work coinciding with the impending empty nest adds an extra level of stress to the situation.

BTW, I discussed your story with my wife. Yes, we talk frequently about topics from TAM. She gave me that, yeah right, sure the picture ended up in the sock drawer by accident look. She felt that answer was just a dodge. I've explained in this thread how things have gone down with us in regard to mementos from her past relationship. Keeping that in mind, she said she doesn't think there is anything wrong with having some photos or objects from past relationships. However, she said if the spouse is uncomfortable with them they should be gone. I've never talked to her about the statements regarding value I mentioned here, yet she said basically the same thing. A spouse should value her marriage and spouse more than her past relationships and mementos of those past relationships. She also said those things belong stored away in the basement or something like that, even when the spouse is okay with them being held on to. The only reason to be in a bedroom dresser drawer is for easy access and she also said a spouse shouldn't be reminiscing over past lovers. My point is she pretty much feels the same way as I do about all this, for what that is worth.

When I started having these fears I decided I wanted to become closer to my wife as well as take our sex life to a new level. I tackled them together. We were really doing quite well, but I wanted us in the best possible position before moving into the empty nest phase of our lives. Kind of reestablish our relationship. When you think about it, the empty nest is a bit like starting over. It really is a new relationship in many ways. It is natural for some of this to feel awkward. My wife was a little taken aback when I started opening up our communication about things we hadn't really discussed before or at least not for a couple decades. Something you have to consider is that you may have been thinking about a topic for days or weeks prior to starting the conversation with her. For her it is brand new and could be a surprise and somewhat shocking. That could be the source of the "This isn't the man I married" comment. What was the tone when she said that? Was it more like, "wow, this isn't the man I married, cool, I like it" or was it more like, "WTF, this isn't the man I married, who are you and what have you done with my man"? Either way, I think you have to keep working on these conversations. I told my wife straight up that I wanted to work with her to make sure we move into this new relationship without kids in the best possible way. I want this to be a great time for just US. We will always be their parents, but they are going to be starting their own lives and we get to be a couple again. Let's have fun with it!

Now our kids are 22 and 24 so we still aren't 100% empty nest, but very close. My oldest graduates in May, has a job lined up and is moving into her own apartment with her fiancé. My son is 5 hours away, but will be home for the summer with 1 more year of college to go. We are several years into these changes I initiated and I, and my wife, couldn't be happier. She is very grateful that I started these conversations and took the lead in moving us forward into this new relationship. She doesn't think she would have done anything about it herself, even though she shared many of the same concerns. You have to lead the charge on this, even if it means you aren't exactly the same man she married. You don't have to boil the ocean in one shot, but you have to start and you have to keep moving forward. Learn how to communicate better. Below is a link to a short article that can help with starting a conversation. The site has other useful info too. Worth a look around.

I'm not sure how this will be received by everyone here, but next to opening communication, my biggest tool has been sex and our intimacy. I tried to take us back to the levels of passion we had when we were a new couple and newlyweds. I truly date her. I truly romance her. I truly love to seduce her. I wanted her to be more in love and more bonded to me than any other time. This has worked so well. It is even apparent to people outside our marriage. She has a friend that has referred to us in the kindest of terms, as high school lovers. Not only has all this brought us immensely close, but it has gotten me laid like tile, lol.

I suggest the following.

Use the picture as an opportunity to let her know you have a healthy concern about the coming changes. That you think there is more to the picture being in the drawer than she has said. That you think she may have concerns too and you would like to know how she is really feeling. You can take the opportunity to acknowledge that her past experiences are part of the women you love today, but the past is the past and you want to focus on your marriage and your joint future.
Let her know that you may be doing some things differently than you have previously, that you want to strengthen your already good marriage as you move into this new time in your relationship. She has to know it is totally coming from a place of love and caring for her and the marriage.
Get to know each other all over again. My wife and I know each other so well, yet we would talk about all kinds of topics that a new couple may want to explore to get to know each other. Many times we would already know the answers to the questions, but it would make us reminisce about us. I turned it into a kind of game. I've never attached a file here before, so hopefully it works. The PDF has over 100 questions to ask each other. I cut them up and we alternated picking one randomly. The picker answered first, but the other person then answered too. Some were done in a few seconds, while others often started lengthy conversations. You don't have to do all in one sitting. We may do a few dozen and quit, then do some more a week or two or a month later. This isn't something that has to happen overnight. You can pull out any questions you aren't comfortable with and could even add some of your own.
This is a small one, but can provide valuable insight into each other. Both of you should take the 5 love languages quiz. It will help you understand what each of you need to feel loved. Link is below. It is another great conversation starter.
Date your wife. You can always do the standards, like dinner and a movie, but find new or different things too. We often go out to live music shows or go out dancing. Go for a drive or a hike. I recently bought the Adventure Challenge book that has some interesting date night ideas. Not long ago we did a goofy one where we went to a thrift shop and we bought outfits for each other and pretended to be someone else. I picked her name and she picked mine, just random names. We went out, had drinks and shot some pool while calling each other by our made up names. Then went to dinner and had sex that night as Sophia and Tristin, lol. Super goofy, but fun. I don't know your wife's personality. You will have to gauge if something like that will work for the two of you. Find what works for you, but keep it fresh.
Keep this whole cycle up. Check back in on how she and you are doing. Keep dating her. Keep working on satisfying her sexually. Keep working on non-sexual intimacy.
You said she has stated in the past that she wants "more", well here it is.

This is what has worked for me. It is likely you will need to tailor it to work for you, but I hope this gives you some assistance in moving in the right direction for you and her. The absolute key to this is it has to be a partnership. You need to lead, but your wife has to be fully onboard with working together in making your marriage the best marriage. Mine was, and is. That has been a key factor in making this work for us.










How to have a conversation - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you know how to have a conversation? Are you sure? A lot of people think they know, but they're really just skilled at talking, not conversation.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












The Love Language™ Quiz


Discover your primary love language and how you can use it to better connect with your loved ones.




www.5lovelanguages.com


----------



## so_sweet

BigDaddyNY said:


> I truly date her. I truly romance her. I truly love to seduce her. I wanted her to be more in love and more bonded to me than any other time.


Heart-melting words! Your wife is a lucky lady.

Also, it was interesting to read your experience in being almost empty nesters and you shared some valuable information that I hope to remember when my time comes. It never ocurred to me that being an empty nester is like starting over, that it's kind of like having a new relationship with your spouse. Really interesting read.


----------



## Parallax857

ABHale said:


> Not with the way you disagree. Stay off my post and I will stay off yours.


I can disagree without being disagreeable. If you post comments that I think are potentially destructive of other people's relationship, I'll say so. If you think I've said something inaccurate, you're free to share your opinion.


----------



## Rus47

Parallax857 said:


> So it's not uncommon for a beautiful young woman to go from dating players to finding one sincere man.


The only problem, which plays out in this thread and a lot of others is the woman who after riding the wild bull marries the "provisioner and provider", still remembers for a lifetime the hot and heavy rush she got from the bad boy. So there is always the potential to "backslide". When Perimenopause arrives, when the kids leave home, when some other major life event flips the switch. And if the woman is a looker, she can successfully find another bad boy anytime she likes. 

Billie married Cooper and had kids with him, but she still dreams of Brad and eventually returns to him for fun. 

A man who marries a woman with a past relationship with a bad boy is at risk of being dumped when his usefulness as a provider is irrelevant. As when the kids leave home or she becomes self sufficient financially.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rus47 said:


> The only problem, which plays out in this thread and a lot of others is the woman who after riding the wild bull marries the "provisioner and provider", still remembers for a lifetime the hot and heavy rush she got from the bad boy. So there is always the potential to "backslide". When Perimenopause arrives, when the kids leave home, when some other major life event flips the switch. And if the woman is a looker, she can successfully find another bad boy anytime she likes.
> 
> Billie married Cooper and had kids with him, but she still dreams of Brad and eventually returns to him for fun.
> 
> A man who marries a woman with a past relationship with a bad boy is at risk of being dumped when his usefulness as a provider is irrelevant. As when the kids leave home or she becomes self sufficient financially.


Unless you're the bad boy she married, and you haven't let M dissolve your independence and did NOT let her put a ring through your nose for control.

Then you're the wild bull she rides. Keep it wild and you're good.


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## Rus47

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Unless you're the bad boy she married, and you haven't let M dissolve your independence and did NOT let her put a ring through your nose for control.
> 
> Then you're the wild bull she rides. Keep it wild and you're good.


But OP wasnt and isnt the wild bull. He cant be someone he isnt. She wants “more” and he is giving all he can. So what now? What does he do now?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rus47 said:


> But OP wasnt and isnt the wild bull. He cant be someone he isnt. She wants “more” and he is giving all he can. So what now? What does he do now?


Time to be the bull. It will help him now, and prepare him for any future changes. Win win.


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## BigDaddyNY

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Time to be the bull. It will help him now, and prepare him for any future changes. Win win.


Exactly. I think it can be done. I don't think he is giving all he can. He has started to some degree and it has surprised his wife. That means he is capable of changing enough that his wife took notice. He can bring in some of those "bad boy" traits while leaving out the asshole parts. The changes I made felt awkward at first, but do them often enough and long enough and they become the norm.


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## Blondilocks

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Time to be the bull. It will help him now, and prepare him for any future changes. Win win.


No offense to the OP; but, Barney Fife and Rambo will never be sitting down and having a pint together.


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## ElOtro

Parallax857 said:


> Could not disagree more. It's not about the past. It's about there here and now. There are couples that have incredible long term marriages even though one partner was a virgin when they met. That person is often the man. There are a lot of kind, caring men who come to dating slowly. Young women can pretty easily get sex if they want it. That's not true for guys. Ten percent of the guys get 75% of the sex. The rest of us scramble for what's left. Some fellas struggle more than others.
> 
> At a certain point, women begin to realize that kindness and stability are great qualities in a guy. Particularly if they were previously in relationships with jerks. So it's not uncommon for a beautiful young woman to go from dating players to finding one sincere man. I know a couple that's been together more than 30 years. She came to the relationship with a 3 year old child sired by an earlier guy who we can call the sperm donor. He wasn't responsible in any way, shape or form, as a partner or as a father. A few years later, she met her husband. By then, she was 21 years old, incredibly beautiful, and he was a nerdy 20 year old. They fell in love. They decided to marry. He's adopted the first child and they've had three other sons together. So it was a family with four children, all male.
> 
> They have loved each other from day one and they still do. They idealize each other. He recently referred to her as "Saint Ashley" at a gathering. I know them because I was friends with this woman's parents. I once asked her how she went from that first guy, who was such a creep, to her husband, who's so solid. She said, "I grew up. I decided I wanted a man." I asked him what the secret of their marriage is. He said something about being a nerd and feeling lucky to have scored a woman so smart and beautiful. He opened his heart to the first son and treated him no differently than the three who are biologically related. Had he shared your view that the guy has to be more experienced, he'd have missed out on so much.


I have some cautious agreement with also some points of your post.
Not really about being or not "experienced", IMO not so (if at all) relevant but about the attitude (which can hopely have beter sources than lack of experience)
Yes, I agree that a caring, stable, affectionate partner and father may (and also hopefully should) become more attactive than a player. In fact since a certain age most of women wants such kind of specimen or claim they do it at least.
There are anyhow some problematic experiences, sadly quite frequent ones and widely experienced by more of said good men than it should. Are around what you posted as "I grew up. I decided I wanted a man." 
If you define "a man" the way that good man is, it should also be _all what what she wants in a man_.
That shoould include him being attractive to her as a man not also with the classic familiar like love.
_Which is good but a poor parody of being also attracted "to a man" if that replaces being in passionate love with a partner but also (and mainly) as a lover. THE desired lover, da man.
When choosing an emotionally mature guy is (or becomes) settling...you can safely predict some incidents in the years to come. Like the pic of a jerk Ex somewhere.
EVEN if there isn´t a classic betrayal and the "good" marriage is not "in danger", the symbol by itself (and no matter the "intentions" and "inner" reasons) fits too frequently with some longing for another kind of man.
IMO a betrayal regardless being aware of it.
The frequently said expression that indifference is the opposite of love is not just false, is a fraud. 
Disgust is. 
And I doubt that I would keep in a near place the image of someone whose image provoques such strong feeling.

Best wishes. _


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ElOtro said:


> I have some cautious agreement with also some points of your post.
> Not really about being or not "experienced", IMO not so (if at all) relevant but about the attitude (which can hopely have beter sources than lack of experience)
> Yes, I agree that a caring, stable, affectionate partner and father may (and also hopefully should) become more attactive than a player. In fact since a certain age most of women wants such kind of specimen or claim they do it at least.
> There are anyhow some problematic experiences, sadly quite frequent ones and widely experienced by more of said good men than it should. Are around what you posted as "I grew up. I decided I wanted a man."
> If you define "a man" the way that good man is, it should also be _all what what she wants in a man_.
> That shoould include him being attractive to her as a man not also with the classic familiar like love.
> _Which is good but a poor parody of being also attracted "to a man" if that replaces being in passionate love with a partner but also (and mainly) as a lover. THE desired lover, da man.
> When choosing an emotionally mature guy is (or becomes) settling...you can safely predict some incidents in the years to come. Like the pic of a jerk Ex somewhere.
> EVEN if there isn´t a classic betrayal and the "good" marriage is not "in danger", the symbol by itself (and no matter the "intentions" and "inner" reasons) fits too frequently with some longing for another kind of man.
> IMO a betrayal regardless being aware of it.
> The frequently said expression that indifference is the opposite of love is not just false, is a fraud.
> Disgust is.
> And I doubt that I would keep in a near place the image of someone whose image provoques such strong feeling.
> 
> Best wishes. _


OP needs to be the man he himself wants to be regardless of any relationship. He has to do this for himself without wanting approval from W.


----------



## ElOtro

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> OP needs to be the man he himself wants to be regardless of any relationship. He has to do this for himself without wanting approval from W.


Right or wrong your comment (and yours are welcome) don´t seem to apply as answer to mine.
Best wishes.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ElOtro said:


> Right or wrong your comment (and yours are welcome) don´t seem to apply as answer to mine.
> Best wishes.


Point is he has to be his own man. Period. Have a good day.


----------



## ElOtro

Your point, not mine.
Period of course.
Have a nice year.


----------



## ABHale

Parallax857 said:


> I can disagree without being disagreeable. If you post comments that I think are potentially destructive of other people's relationship, I'll say so. If you think I've said something inaccurate, you're free to share your opinion.


I am now blocking you, I will no longer see your comments.


----------



## Rus47

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Time to be the bull. It will help him now, and prepare him for any future changes. Win win.


Well as a non-wild bull, I don’t believe a man (or woman) can change who they are at the core of their being. They may pretend but what is the point to that? I mean I could go to the gym, and a mma class, buy a Harley. But I know will never be a “bad boy”. The girl I met in HS wanted nothing to do with the wild boys. We “clicked” on the first date, the rest is history

I dont think OP can be the bad boy. He has a lifetime being the anti bad boy. So if his wife now wants to relive her past, his only option is to let her go and move on with his mundane life.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

so_sweet said:


> Heart-melting words! Your wife is a lucky lady.
> 
> Also, it was interesting to read your experience in being almost empty nesters and you shared some valuable information that I hope to remember when my time comes. It never ocurred to me that being an empty nester is like starting over, that it's kind of like having a new relationship with your spouse. Really interesting read.


Empty nesting is just great. It's a new period and has many many new, now can do items. 

Enjoy the simple things, and it also opens up another whole section of a couples imagination in a good M. Has really been great for us, as an example.


----------



## Rus47

@loblawbobblog, any progress with your personal struggles?


----------



## Parallax857

Rus47 said:


> The only problem, which plays out in this thread and a lot of others is the woman who after riding the wild bull marries the "provisioner and provider", still remembers for a lifetime the hot and heavy rush she got from the bad boy. So there is always the potential to "backslide".


Call me naive but I don't think this happens very often. I think many women grow up and learn to appreciate earnest men (for real) and don't go back to the jerks. Maturation is a real thing. 

What gets stated here again and again, pretty much always by men, is a sort of deep male fear (and insecurity). Of being used or cuckolded. Men are socialized (as children) in ways that lead to a lot fear of humiliation (with many doses of humiliation along the way). For not being big enough, tough enough, strong enough. We're told "big boys don't cry" which walls us off from access to our emotions. Women don't really get what men are up against, and most men don't get it either. The fear of humiliation is profound and subconscious. 

Still, the key to healthy relationship in my view, is to evolve beyond that sort of worldview. To get to a place where one can enter a relationship with authenticity, which includes owning one's fears and insecurities. Plus a willingness to be vulnerable. 

When I was dating, I occasionally met a woman who wanted a "he-man". I remember sharing with one woman about how a movie had made me cry and she responded, "Do you cry often? Because I don't want a man who cries." That made very clear she wasn't the right woman for me because it took me years of therapy to recover an ability to cry. Like most boys I was taught to wall off my feelings. It was a lot of work to regain access to them. 

My experience has been that A LOT of women eat up vulnerability in a man. As I learned to be truthful (with myself and others) about what I was feeling, I became like honey, with all these really attractive women showing clear interest. They didn't want "Mr. Macho". They wanted a guy who could be real. I wound up eventually settling down with a woman who is a real jewel. Truthworthy, loyal, honest. A brilliant psychologist who is adored by her clients because she cares so much. In our relationship, she owns her own stuff and expects the same of me. We don't blame each other. We seek to understand. Over 12 years, the love we began with has only grown stronger and richer.


----------



## In Absentia

Parallax857 said:


> Call me naive but I don't think this happens very often. I think many women grow up and learn to appreciate earnest men (for real) and don't go back to the jerks. Maturation is a real thing.
> 
> What gets stated here again and again, pretty much always by men, is a sort of deep male fear (and insecurity). Of being used or cuckolded. Men are socialized (as children) in ways that lead to a lot fear of humiliation (with many doses of humiliation along the way). For not being big enough, tough enough, strong enough. We're told "big boys don't cry" which walls us off from access to our emotions. Women don't really get what men are up against, and most men don't get it either. The fear of humiliation is profound and subconscious.
> 
> Still, the key to healthy relationship in my view, is to evolve beyond that sort of worldview. To get to a place where one can enter a relationship with authenticity, which includes owning one's fears and insecurities. Plus a willingness to be vulnerable.
> 
> When I was dating, I occasionally met a woman who wanted a "he-man". I remember sharing with one woman about how a movie had made me cry and she responded, "Do you cry often? Because I don't want a man who cries." That made very clear she wasn't the right woman for me because it took me years of therapy to recover an ability to cry. Like most boys I was taught to wall off my feelings. It was a lot of work to regain access to them.
> 
> My experience has been that A LOT of women eat up vulnerability in a man. As I learned to be truthful (with myself and others) about what I was feeling, I became like honey, with all these really attractive women showing clear interest. They didn't want "Mr. Macho". They wanted a guy who could be real. I wound up eventually settling down with a woman who is a real jewel. Truthworthy, loyal, honest. A brilliant psychologist who is adored by her clients because she cares so much. In our relationship, she owns her own stuff and expects the same of me. We don't blame each other. We seek to understand. Over 12 years, the love we began with has only grown stronger and richer.


I agree with you, but you won't find many other men that agree with you on this board


----------



## ElOtro

Parallax857 said:


> Call me naive but I don't think this happens very often.


Naive


----------



## Parallax857

Rus47 said:


> Well as a non-wild bull, I don’t believe a man (or woman) can change who they are at the core of their being. They may pretend but what is the point to that? I mean I could go to the gym, and a mma class, buy a Harley. But I know will never be a “bad boy”. The girl I met in HS wanted nothing to do with the wild boys. We “clicked” on the first date, the rest is history
> 
> I dont think OP can be the bad boy. He has a lifetime being the anti bad boy. So if his wife now wants to relive her past, his only option is to let her go and move on with his mundane life.


How awesome that you met someone who loved you just as you are when you were so young and that the good times have continued. To your point that OP can't become the bad boy, I don't know that I agree. With concerted effort, one can change his own personality. But why should he? I agree with your assertion in the sense that he shouldn't have to. It's enough to be him (as he is). If it doesn't work for his wife, that's alright. Divorce is painful but life on the other side of it can be much better. If he wants to ultimately find a woman who loves him for who he is, he can find that. As have you and I. In my case, it wasn't right out of high school but after a lot of work to overcome my own demons and insecurities. Spent a lot of years thinking I had to be someone else. Someone I was not (and really didn't want to become, though I did try). To finally realize it was enough to be me, the real authentic me, was so incredibly freeing. It was from that ground of being, living a life I loved and not "needing" a woman, that I found the one who was and is right for me. I have no doubt she was there all along, in many forms through the years. I simply walked away from those women because I was searching for a kind of validation that I could never get from someone else.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Parallax857 said:


> Call me naive but I don't think this happens very often. I think many women grow up and learn to appreciate earnest men (for real) and don't go back to the jerks. Maturation is a real thing.
> 
> What gets stated here again and again, pretty much always by men, is a sort of deep male fear (and insecurity). Of being used or cuckolded. Men are socialized (as children) in ways that lead to a lot fear of humiliation (with many doses of humiliation along the way). For not being big enough, tough enough, strong enough. We're told "big boys don't cry" which walls us off from access to our emotions. Women don't really get what men are up against, and most men don't get it either. The fear of humiliation is profound and subconscious.
> 
> Still, the key to healthy relationship in my view, is to evolve beyond that sort of worldview. To get to a place where one can enter a relationship with authenticity, which includes owning one's fears and insecurities. Plus a willingness to be vulnerable.
> 
> When I was dating, I occasionally met a woman who wanted a "he-man". I remember sharing with one woman about how a movie had made me cry and she responded, "Do you cry often? Because I don't want a man who cries." That made very clear she wasn't the right woman for me because it took me years of therapy to recover an ability to cry. Like most boys I was taught to wall off my feelings. It was a lot of work to regain access to them.
> 
> My experience has been that A LOT of women eat up vulnerability in a man. As I learned to be truthful (with myself and others) about what I was feeling, I became like honey, with all these really attractive women showing clear interest. They didn't want "Mr. Macho". They wanted a guy who could be real. I wound up eventually settling down with a woman who is a real jewel. Truthworthy, loyal, honest. A brilliant psychologist who is adored by her clients because she cares so much. In our relationship, she owns her own stuff and expects the same of me. We don't blame each other. We seek to understand. Over 12 years, the love we began with has only grown stronger and richer.


Naive.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Parallax857 said:


> Call me naive but I don't think this happens very often. I think many women grow up and learn to appreciate earnest men (for real) and don't go back to the jerks. Maturation is a real thing.
> 
> What gets stated here again and again, pretty much always by men, is a sort of deep male fear (and insecurity). Of being used or cuckolded. Men are socialized (as children) in ways that lead to a lot fear of humiliation (with many doses of humiliation along the way). For not being big enough, tough enough, strong enough. We're told "big boys don't cry" which walls us off from access to our emotions. Women don't really get what men are up against, and most men don't get it either. The fear of humiliation is profound and subconscious.
> 
> Still, the key to healthy relationship in my view, is to evolve beyond that sort of worldview. To get to a place where one can enter a relationship with authenticity, which includes owning one's fears and insecurities. Plus a willingness to be vulnerable.
> 
> When I was dating, I occasionally met a woman who wanted a "he-man". I remember sharing with one woman about how a movie had made me cry and she responded, "Do you cry often? Because I don't want a man who cries." That made very clear she wasn't the right woman for me because it took me years of therapy to recover an ability to cry. Like most boys I was taught to wall off my feelings. It was a lot of work to regain access to them.
> 
> My experience has been that A LOT of women eat up vulnerability in a man. As I learned to be truthful (with myself and others) about what I was feeling, I became like honey, with all these really attractive women showing clear interest. They didn't want "Mr. Macho". They wanted a guy who could be real. I wound up eventually settling down with a woman who is a real jewel. Truthworthy, loyal, honest. A brilliant psychologist who is adored by her clients because she cares so much. In our relationship, she owns her own stuff and expects the same of me. We don't blame each other. We seek to understand. Over 12 years, the love we began with has only grown stronger and richer.


See you can state how things should be, but without accepting the way things ARE, you're only living in your own mind.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> My experience has been that A LOT of women eat up vulnerability in a man. As I learned to be truthful (with myself and others) about what I was feeling, I became like honey, with all these really attractive women showing clear interest. They didn't want "Mr. Macho". They wanted a guy who could be real. I wound up eventually settling down with a woman who is a real jewel. Truthworthy, loyal, honest. A brilliant psychologist who is adored by her clients because she cares so much. In our relationship, she owns her own stuff and expects the same of me. We don't blame each other. We seek to understand. Over 12 years, the love we began with has only grown stronger and richer.


I know the times I've shown the most vulnerability and emotions to my wife, and to my kids, have been some of the best and most effective moments in strengthening our relationship. I don't think that makes you look weak at all. As you said, it makes you real. I personally think as a man in the relationship you need a mix of that vulnerability and strong family leadership. After all, it is emotions that drew you to your wife and made you fall in love with her. 

I think OP needs to be brave enough to be vulnerable with his wife while leading them along this new time in their marriage.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

while leading them along this new time in their marriage.

That's the excerpt to take to heart here.


----------



## Parallax857

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you, but you won't find many other men that agree with you on this board


Thanks. I know this stuff because I came up the hard way. I've carried my share of insecurity but that forced me to learn about and work through it. My mom was truly abusive. She wanted me to be bigger, stronger or more conventionally masculine, and was embarrassed by having a sweet, sensitive, intelligent boy -- didn't mean she was right. I got it in therapy that other parents might have thought I was perfect just as I was. But looking back, my childhood was challenging. She would shame me in horrible ways. "Mom, would you buy me that ball?" "No, because you'll bounce it like a girl." That's an example. That sort of thing over and over. She tore down my ego to the studs (no pun intended). 

Oddly, later in life, she seemed to think I was a prince and God's gift to women but the criticism would take the form of, "You've never been with a woman as good looking as you" and the like. She was nuts.


----------



## Parallax857

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> See you can state how things should be, but without accepting the way things ARE, you're only living in your own mind.


You're making a lot of assumptions about "the way things are". The only thing that's clear to me is that the OP and his wife need to talk. Hopefully with the help of a good couples counselor. I hope they're both willing.


----------



## Parallax857

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know the times I've shown the most vulnerability and emotions to my wife, and to my kids, have been some of the best and most effective moments in strengthening our relationship. I don't think that makes you look weak at all. As you said, it makes you real. I personally think as a man in the relationship you need a mix of that vulnerability and strong family leadership. After all, it is emotions that drew you to your wife and made you fall in love with her.
> 
> I think OP needs to be brave enough to be vulnerable with his wife while leading them along this new time in their marriage.


It sounds like you get what I'm talking about. I don't know what you mean by strong family leadership. If you mean to be strong in being forthright about his needs while also demonstraing a willingness to listen when the wife speaks of hers and then seeking a win-win, I'm right there with you. If you mean some version of a man imposing his will on a woman, that's the sort of thing that I believe likely to backfire and then the OP will never get what he's looking for.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> It sounds like you get what I'm talking about. I don't know what you mean by strong family leadership. If you mean to be strong in being forthright about his needs while also demonstraing a willingness to listen when the wife speaks of hers and then seeking a win-win, I'm right there with you. If you mean some version of a man imposing his will on a woman, that's the sort of thing that I believe likely to backfire and then the OP will never get what he's looking for.


I don't believe effective leaders impose their their will. They steer and guide the team they are part of and do things that make the team want to follow them. A good family leader shouldn't be afraid to show they are as emotionally invested in the family and marriage as everyone else.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Parallax857 said:


> You're making a lot of assumptions about "the way things are". The only thing that's clear to me is that the OP and his wife need to talk. Hopefully with the help of a good couples counselor. I hope they're both willing.


Sorry Charlie. OP is stating how things are. That's the point. OP then doesn't accept the actions he sees.


----------



## Divinely Favored

BigDaddyNY said:


> That's the thing about RJ. It isn't very rational a lot of times. I have an incredibly strong marriage of 32 years and my wife has never given me pause to think she is anything but 100% loyal and faithful to me. She has never compared me to her ex other than to tell me how much better of a man I am. She is clear that what she did shortly after we met was stupid and regrets it more than anything in her life. Yet, physical things would still send incredible emotion through me and cause hurt and pain.
> 
> We can't always control how we feel, but I am thankful that my wife cares so deeply for me that she will do most anything for me without hesitation. That includes getting rid of physical things from her past. They have far, far less value to her than our relationship. I think that is how a caring spouse reacts to a partner that is hurt by something. Even something as small as a picture of an ex. I mean, is that picture really more valuable than your 30 year marriage and your spouse's contentment?


Sounds like our wives are much alike in their thinking. Recently my wife had to go get her marriage license from 1986 to 1st hubby. 

Really pissed her off that she still had to do anything associated with him to get a state DL/Real ID. She had to show name changes from BC on. She wished she had just changed it back to maiden name but we were married in 6 months of her divorce. She had to show BC, then marriage cert, divorce decree, then marriage cert to me.


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## Rus47

Parallax857 said:


> If it doesn't work for his wife, that's alright. Divorce is painful but life on the other side of it can be much better. If he wants to ultimately find a woman who loves him for who he is, he can find that.


This all seems kinda like a T/J, but maybe @loblawbobblog will come back, update us and drag the thread back to his purposes. Hopefully all is right in his world and the drama is over in his marriage. His absence is a little ominous though.

The thing about "if it doesn't work for his wife" is that really sucks. Here he has invested a lot of time and effort in a marriage and kids and she decides in the last minute of the fourth quarter that she wants to play on the other team? And yeah, divorce is damn painful for the poor schmuck stuck with all of the costs. After all of these years invested how could it ever be "much better?" How is he ultimately going to find a woman who loves him as he is? He thought he had found that years ago. Can you even fathom the horrible damage this would do to him, including any ability to ever trust a woman again.

I hope all of these conjectures are totally wrong. But if he "rescued" a woman from a relationship with a bad boy and now decades later she decides she wants to walk on the wild side for the rest of her life, then indeed this is another of numerous threads warning to stay away from a female whose first love was a "bad boy". Unless you are a bigger badder boy.


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## Parallax857

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't believe effective leaders impose their their will. They steer and guide the team they are part of and do things that make the team want to follow them. A good family leader shouldn't be afraid to show they are as emotionally invested in the family and marriage as everyone else.


I agree. As long as there's space for husband and wife to share leadership.


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## Parallax857

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sorry Charlie. OP is stating how things are. That's the point. OP then doesn't accept the actions he sees.


I'd say he's stating his point of view and also asking for help. That's why others are taking the time to share perspectives.


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## Parallax857

Rus47 said:


> This all seems kinda like a T/J, but maybe @loblawbobblog will come back, update us and drag the thread back to his purposes. Hopefully all is right in his world and the drama is over in his marriage. His absence is a little ominous though.
> 
> The thing about "if it doesn't work for his wife" is that really sucks. Here he has invested a lot of time and effort in a marriage and kids and she decides in the last minute of the fourth quarter that she wants to play on the other team? And yeah, divorce is damn painful for the poor schmuck stuck with all of the costs. After all of these years invested how could it ever be "much better?" How is he ultimately going to find a woman who loves him as he is? He thought he had found that years ago. Can you even fathom the horrible damage this would do to him, including any ability to ever trust a woman again.
> 
> I hope all of these conjectures are totally wrong. But if he "rescued" a woman from a relationship with a bad boy and now decades later she decides she wants to walk on the wild side for the rest of her life, then indeed this is another of numerous threads warning to stay away from a female whose first love was a "bad boy". Unless you are a bigger badder boy.


What's a "T/J"?

It's clear by now that you and I do not share similar perspectives so it's not surprising that we don't on these points either. Yes, divorce sucks. It's incredibly painful. But the silver lining is there's a whole new life on the other side and, if people handle it well, they typically come through it more emotionally together and mature than when they began. 

You say he's invested a lot of time and effort. That's true. The wife has too. That's why, in my view, it makes sense for them to invest in couple's counseling before tossing in the towel. But ultimately, if it's not working, it's not working. Or rather, it worked as long as it did and produced a life that was what it was, plus children that I'm sure no one regrets, and now it's not working anymore. If people make the choice to move on, that's alright. It's best not to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Or who isn't willing to do their work and help make the relationship work for both partners. 

Quality of a relationship isn't a function of just time. There are many variables that go into it. I've known people who met late in life and felt that they had found the loves of their lives. As one learns and grows, one's ability to select a partner wisely improves too. So often late marriages are special. 

He can find a woman who loves him as he is because he's smart and discerning enough to wait for someone who appreciates his special qualities. He has them. We all do. It's also important to recognize that marriage isn't the be all and end all. There are lots of unhappy married folks. And lots of happy single folks. What's most fundamental is one's relationship with oneself and building a life one loves with meaningful interests. When one has that, one isn't reliant on a partner to "make one happy", which is too tall an order for any relationship. Rather, two happy people can choose to come together and join their lives. 

You ask how he'll ever trust a woman following a divorce. Listen, I'm a twice divorced, divorce attorney. I see stuff that ends badly all the time and I bear the scars from my own failed marriages. Lo and behold, I'm in a wonderful marriage. To a woman I admire, trust, respect and deeply appreciate. I have confidence that this time we'll be together til death do us part. I'm not a naive child. I have this confidence because we've worked hard to build a great relationship and also because I chose someone with truly sterling character. A jewel of a woman. (Guess what. She's not the only one. They're out there. One just needs to be discerning and focus on the right things.)

I agree in hoping that all the conjectures about the wife are wrong. Conjectures that I'm really not making. I'm in the dark as to who she is and what she wants. But people have been making wild conjectures about her wanting a bad boy and the like. I hope none of it's true. I do not relate to what you're saying about avoiding women who once dated or married the "bad boy" type. People grow, mature and transform. If a woman has moved beyond that, she may appreciate the kind and stable guy all the more. Trying to be the "bigger badder boy" seems to me a really unwise strategy, as one is entering a relationship with a profoundly immature woman. Like the girlfriend I mentioned above who said, "I don't want a guy who cries". To which my response should have been, "Thanks for the information. Thanks for letting me know we don't belong together." I wasn't wise enough at that point to recognize it right away. But I knew enough to explain why I needed to be me and, if she wasn't ok with that, I was going to be me anyway. When, a few months later, she broke things off, I didn't mourn much because it was clear we didn't belong together. It had seemed otherwise in the very beginning but there had been red flags along the way and I was ready to let go. I hope she's found a good match. A man who satisfies her need for machismo and who can also be a good partner.


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## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> I agree. As long as there's space for husband and wife to share leadership.


Depends on what you mean by sharing. There are things the wife may be better suited to lead, others the husband. However someone should be the leader. It has been described as a Captain and 1st officer relationship. Both are fully competent to run the ship. The Captain respectfully takes in the 1st officer's advice and input, but at some point a decision must be made for the ship (marriage/family).

@loblawbobblog has a marriage that could be in danger. He has to take a leadership role that fully involves his wife in setting a course to keep their marriage healthy and thriving. That is precisely what I did and my wife is grateful for the leadership I have provided. ETA: and shared with her as my co-pilot.


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## TexasMom1216

Parallax857 said:


> I agree. As long as there's space for husband and wife to share leadership.


If one person's opinion is the only one that really counts, it's not a relationship, it's a hostage situation. If the man always gets the final say, then the woman is always going to lose. And vice versa. If your marriage isn't a team, but is rather a parent/child or employer/employee or boss/subordinate relationship, the one lower on the rung is going to be left behind.


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## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> What's a "T/J"?
> 
> It's clear by now that you and I do not share similar perspectives so it's not surprising that we don't on these points either. Yes, divorce sucks. It's incredibly painful. But the silver lining is there's a whole new life on the other side and, if people handle it well, they typically come through it more emotionally together and mature than when they began.
> 
> You say he's invested a lot of time and effort. That's true. The wife has too. That's why, in my view, it makes sense for them to invest in couple's counseling before tossing in the towel. But ultimately, if it's not working, it's not working. Or rather, it worked as long as it did and produced a life that was what it was, plus children that I'm sure no one regrets, and now it's not working anymore. If people make the choice to move on, that's alright. It's best not to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Or who isn't willing to do their work and help make the relationship work for both partners.
> 
> Quality of a relationship isn't a function of just time. There are many variables that go into it. I've known people who met late in life and felt that they had found the loves of their lives. As one learns and grows, one's ability to select a partner wisely improves too. So often late marriages are special.
> 
> He can find a woman who loves him as he is because he's smart and discerning enough to wait for someone who appreciates his special qualities. He has them. We all do. It's also important to recognize that marriage isn't the be all and end all. There are lots of unhappy married folks. And lots of happy single folks. What's most fundamental is one's relationship with oneself and building a life one loves with meaningful interests. When one has that, one isn't reliant on a partner to "make one happy", which is too tall an order for any relationship. Rather, two happy people can choose to come together and join their lives.
> 
> You ask how he'll ever trust a woman following a divorce. Listen, I'm a twice divorced, divorce attorney. I see stuff that ends badly all the time and I bear the scars from my own failed marriages. Lo and behold, I'm in a wonderful marriage. To a woman I admire, trust, respect and deeply appreciate. I have confidence that this time we'll be together til death do us part. I'm not a naive child. I have this confidence because we've worked hard to build a great relationship and also because I chose someone with truly sterling character. A jewel of a woman. (Guess what. She's not the only one. They're out there. One just needs to be discerning and focus on the right things.)
> 
> I agree in hoping that all the conjectures about the wife are wrong. Conjectures that I'm really not making. I'm in the dark as to who she is and what she wants. But people have been making wild conjectures about her wanting a bad boy and the like. I hope none of it's true. I do not relate to what you're saying about avoiding women who once dated or married the "bad boy" type. People grow, mature and transform. If a woman has moved beyond that, she may appreciate the kind and stable guy all the more. Trying to be the "bigger badder boy" seems to me a really unwise strategy, as one is entering a relationship with a profoundly immature woman. Like the girlfriend I mentioned above who said, "I don't want a guy who cries". To which my response should have been, "Thanks for the information. Thanks for letting me know we don't belong together." I wasn't wise enough at that point to recognize it right away. But I knew enough to explain why I needed to be me and, if she wasn't ok with that, I was going to be me anyway. When, a few months later, she broke things off, I didn't mourn much because it was clear we didn't belong together. It had seemed otherwise in the very beginning but there had been red flags along the way and I was ready to let go. I hope she's found a good match. A man who satisfies her need for machismo and who can also be a good partner.


I think you are jumping way too far ahead. A picture in the sock drawer could be the canary in the coal mine, but this marriage is far from needing to be tossing in the towel. It is just on the threshold of something new and I think @loblawbobblog can take it by the reigns and get it going in the right direction.


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## Parallax857

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think you are jumping way too far ahead. A picture in the sock drawer could be the canary in the coal mine, but this marriage is far from needing to be tossing in the towel. It is just on the threshold of something new and I think @loblawbobblog can take it by the reigns and get it going in the right direction.


You've misunderstood what I've been writing. I'm advocating not jumping ten steps ahead. I'm responding to others who are making huge assumptions. All I believe to be true is that the husband and wife need to talk about this. Heart to heart on their own or with support from a counselor. I'm super skeptical of those who claim she's obviously pining for the ex. I think that's exceedingly unlikely. 

As a divorce attorney, I've seen it all and that could be true. It just doesn't seem likely that she'd marry a stable, kind man, have children with him, build a life together, and spend all those years pining over a guy who beat her. My guess is, if she were here to share her perspective, we'd hear something very different. I don't know what she would say because the possibilities are close to limitless. Just not likely that. To me, these yarns that are being spun emerge from male insecurity. Sort of like how Eddy Murry used to joke about how white guys would claim not to believe black men had bigger penises. He'd say the white guys had both made up the original story and defended against it by denying its truth. 

I'd say that men, as a rule, carry a great deal of insecurity. Not all men but most. I'll admit to carrying my share. If we're not conscious of that shadow, it can lead in destructive directions. Look at how many political careers have been upended because men couldn't keep their flies zipped. For some, it could really be about the sex. But I suspect most men, when they screw around, are looking for the female seal of approval. The sense that if you, a desirable woman, are willing to sleep with me, I must be alright.


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## Parallax857

TexasMom1216 said:


> If one person's opinion is the only one that really counts, it's not a relationship, it's a hostage situation. If the man always gets the final say, then the woman is always going to lose. And vice versa. If your marriage isn't a team, but is rather a parent/child or employer/employee or boss/subordinate relationship, the one lower on the rung is going to be left behind.


Thanks for saying it that way. Whenever I hear framing that makes the man the captain, I have concerns. I think there can be, as BigDaddyNY says, domains where one is the captain, but it has to be by mutual consent. My wife would definitely nominate me to be captain of our financial choices. Because she knows that's not her strength. I was recently helping her with a financial disclosure for a board she serves on. When we were going through classes of assets, we had to disclose hers, mine and ours. When I told her how much was in her retirement accounts, she tried to correct me, "You mean your retirement accounts." "No", I responded, "yours. Mine have . . ." She was shocked to have so much because she remembers putting our lives together twelve years ago when she had $10k in retirement and $100k in debt. I immediately paid off her debt when we married, though she expressed a preference to keep things separate. I explained that there's no way to do that and be married, and that I'd rather pay it off and get us out from under rather than pay interest. She agreed. So now she's debt free and has way more retirement. A sum that she didn't realize was possible. Had I not been managing this side of our lives, this would not have happened. 

Conversely, when our son is upset or angry, I rely on her to take the lead on helping him. I may have an important piece but I run it by her because she's a psychologist who understands children's emotional needs 100 times better than me. So we each have our domains but there's no coercion. That's the bottom line. There must be no coercion. Otherwise, there's hierarchy and healthy marriages are not hierarchies.


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## A18S37K14H18

Folks, OP created a knew thread where he tells of finding out his wife had a string of ONS's many years ago even while they were in counseling together.


This info puts this pic of her ex in a whole new light.


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## ABHale

Blondilocks said:


> No offense to the OP; but, Barney Fife and Rambo will never be sitting down and having a pint together.


Seeing how Barney passed away in 2006, that is a fair assumption.😁😁


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## TexasMom1216

Parallax857 said:


> Whenever I hear framing that makes the man the captain, I have concerns.


As do I. It's easy to claim "I'm in charge and my wife is happy" if she has no choice but make the best of whatever is happening to her. We also divide the work in our marriage based on our strengths. Sometimes literally, I can't move heavy things but he can. 😋 I have yet to ever read anything on this or any other forum that makes me regret keeping my job. No independence = no rights.


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## A18S37K14H18

Folks,

OP created another post where he tells of finding out his wife had a string of ONS's many years ago, while they were in counseling together.

He only recently found out and he hasn't confronted her yet.

This puts his wife's photo of her ex in a whole new light.


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## Parallax857

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Folks,
> 
> OP created another post where he tells of finding out his wife had a string of ONS's many years ago, while they were in counseling together.
> 
> He only recently found out and he hasn't confronted her yet.
> 
> This puts his wife's photo of her ex in a whole new light.


I agree. Totally different light. That would be hard to overcome. Feel really bad for the guy. Do you have a link for that thread?


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## Parallax857

TexasMom1216 said:


> As do I. It's hard to claim "I'm in charge and my wife is happy" if she has no choice but make the best of whatever is happening to her. We also divide the work in our marriage based on our strengths. Sometimes literally, I can't move heavy things but he can. 😋 I have yet to ever read anything on this or any other forum that makes me regret keeping my job. No independence = no rights.


As a divorce attorney, I very much agree. I think it's healthy when both spouses have the ability to support themselves. It doesn't have to be in grand style but enough to pay basic expenses is important. If a woman (or a man) becomes too dependent, one pays a price. I've actually done a lot of divorces in cases where the woman worked and supported a guy who didn't. Seems to me that tends to end a marriage fast. Men are, for whatever reason, more likely to be copacetic with a spouse who doesn't work. I don't know if women are socialized to expect men to contribute financially or if something programmed into our DNA. Clearly, women are attracted to mastery in men (in all its forms). Marilyn Monroe claimed to find Albert Einstein attractive. 

The "Me Too" Movement has illustrated that there are clearly women who aren't cut out that way. Women who won't voluntarily give themselves to a guy just because he's rich or powerful. That there's long been a tremendous amount of coercion behind the scenes. At the same time, there are women who are genuinely attracted to power. In fact, it's probably universal. That's why the football players in high school all have pretty girlfriends. Later on, women are less drawn to the jocks and more to the guys with good careers. What mastery and power looks like changes but the basic attraction to it does not.


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## A18S37K14H18

Parallax857 said:


> I agree. Totally different light. That would be hard to overcome. Feel really bad for the guy. Do you have a link for that thread?


@Parallax857 

Here is the link:









.


.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Parallax857

A18S37K14H18 said:


> @Parallax857
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com


Thanks.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Parallax857 said:


> As a divorce attorney, I very much agree. I think it's healthy when both spouses have the ability to support themselves. It doesn't have to be in grand style but enough to pay basic expenses is important. If a woman (or a man) becomes too dependent, one pays a price. I've actually done a lot of divorces in cases where the woman worked and supported a guy who didn't. Seems to me that tends to end a marriage fast. Men are, for whatever reason, more likely to be copacetic with a spouse who doesn't work. I don't know if women are socialized to expect men to contribute financially or if something programmed into our DNA. Clearly, women are attracted to mastery in men (in all its forms). Marilyn Monroe claimed to find Albert Einstein attractive.
> 
> The "Me Too" Movement has illustrated that there are clearly women who aren't cut out that way. Women who won't voluntarily give themselves to a guy just because he's rich or powerful. That there's long been a tremendous amount of coercion behind the scenes. At the same time, there are women who are genuinely attracted to power. In fact, it's probably universal. That's why the football players in high school all have pretty girlfriends. Later on, women are less drawn to the jocks and more to the guys with good careers. What mastery and power looks like changes but the basic attraction to it does not.


A divorce attorney. I get you now.


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## Parallax857

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> A divorce attorney. I get you now.


What do you get now?


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## happiness27

Blondilocks said:


> If I put a wedding ring on his finger, I most certainly do.


Actually, you don't have a right to limit your partner's sex life. You have made a contract that can be legally dissolved by either party based on the terms of the agreement. But no human owns another human or has a right to do anything other than civil to negotiate regarding the condition of the relationship. It's the moral of the story between the sun and wind.


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## Blondilocks

happiness27 said:


> Actually, you don't have a right to limit your partner's sex life. You have made a contract that can be legally dissolved by either party based on the terms of the agreement. But no human owns another human or has a right to do anything other than civil to negotiate regarding the condition of the relationship.* It's the moral of the story between the sun and wind.*


Huh?


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## happiness27

Blondilocks said:


> Huh?


If you are inquiring about the moral of the story between the sun and the wind...

The sun and the wind saw a man in an overcoat and they bet each other who could get the man's overcoat off of him. 

The wind blew and blew and blew, but the man just pulled the overcoat more tightly against himself. The wind failed.

The sun came out instead and created a warmth - so the man voluntarily removed his overcoat.


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## BigDaddyNY

Blondilocks said:


> Huh?


Persuasion vs force


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## Marc878

Life isn’t necessarily fair. You do have a choice. Accept it or not.
I see a lot wanting their significant others to ‘get it’. When they are the ones not ‘getting it’.
That’s who they are. So far you’ve accepted it. To not requires a decision. I doubt you are able or willing to make a decision so you’ll keep yourself in limbo.


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## ElOtro

happiness27 said:


> Actually, you don't have a right to limit your partner's sex life. You have made a contract that can be legally dissolved by either party based on the terms of the agreement. But no human owns another human or has a right to do anything other than civil to negotiate regarding the condition of the relationship. It's the moral of the story between the sun and wind.


I know you where answering another post so some aspects of my reply to yours may not fit that "context".
Anyhow as I don´t hold a "contractual" view (be it legal, social, morall, religious, vows, rings, other consensual agreements) on sexual exclusivity and neither the new mainstream about the same with core in the "oh so sacred" individuality, may be I can share some of my thoughts on this.

My frame to think on it is a certain kind of team, an in love one, includding a fierce wish of sexual and romantic exclusivity from both. With no gray areas that may colide with such mutual desire.
In such frame, there is no need to limit a partner´s sex life because all of it would be, as yours, focused in each other with no exceptions.
IF there is a reason, no matter wich one, that makes one or both to step out of such team shared criteria (not negociated, enthusiasticaly shared) then, in the very same moment it happens, the relationship gets vanished.
No fights, no negociations, no baggage reclaim, no way back. No insults and neither promisses. End.
Not because a contract, not because an arbitrarious personal freedom.
Because penguins do not have navels and such a couple is loyal or do not exist as such cos it´s intrinsic nature.

Would I be in that case restricting my partner´s sexual life? Yes but no.
Yes because her freedom to choose a sexual partner would exclude me since, no negociation.
And No because I should not limit the sexual options of...an Ex. Exception made of the above said.
So yes, I´m limiting someone, but no more my partner. And only about me.

Just to ground it in the present thread.
I wouln´t make a problem to my (since then) Ex for having a pic of her previous Ex.
But ask her to be so kind to exclude my own pics from her life, specially if she gets in another and future relationship. Never more with me, of course.


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## Parallax857

I'm not Rus. But I hear that you're not asking anything of your spouse or partner that you wouldn't expect of yourself. It's not coercive because it's a kind of contract that two people enter. Either of them can breach the contract but then it ends for both partners because it's been breached.

If I misunderstood, feel free to say so. I didn't want the thread to end without your perspective getting acknowledged in some way after you went out of your way to write in such a detailed way.


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## wmn1

BigDaddyNY said:


> Man, I can completely sympathize. There are differences, but our similarities are striking. The past relationship imbalance seems very nearly the same, we've been together roughly the same amounts of time, we only have 2 kids, but they are 2 years apart like your youngest 2. And I started having some of the same feelings you are describing when my kids were 18 and 20 and either in, or starting college. I was genuinely scared, and she didn't tell me at the time, but my wife was very afraid too. She had almost the same thoughts as me, what are we going to do and say without the kids around? Do we really even know just each other anymore? One difference, and a significant one, is that my wife was a SAHM until our youngest was around 12, so she had started her new career about 6 years prior to the impending empty nest. I think your wife going back to work coinciding with the impending empty nest adds an extra level of stress to the situation.
> 
> BTW, I discussed your story with my wife. Yes, we talk frequently about topics from TAM. She gave me that, yeah right, sure the picture ended up in the sock drawer by accident look. She felt that answer was just a dodge. I've explained in this thread how things have gone down with us in regard to mementos from her past relationship. Keeping that in mind, she said she doesn't think there is anything wrong with having some photos or objects from past relationships. However, she said if the spouse is uncomfortable with them they should be gone. I've never talked to her about the statements regarding value I mentioned here, yet she said basically the same thing. A spouse should value her marriage and spouse more than her past relationships and mementos of those past relationships. She also said those things belong stored away in the basement or something like that, even when the spouse is okay with them being held on to. The only reason to be in a bedroom dresser drawer is for easy access and she also said a spouse shouldn't be reminiscing over past lovers. My point is she pretty much feels the same way as I do about all this, for what that is worth.
> 
> When I started having these fears I decided I wanted to become closer to my wife as well as take our sex life to a new level. I tackled them together. We were really doing quite well, but I wanted us in the best possible position before moving into the empty nest phase of our lives. Kind of reestablish our relationship. When you think about it, the empty nest is a bit like starting over. It really is a new relationship in many ways. It is natural for some of this to feel awkward. My wife was a little taken aback when I started opening up our communication about things we hadn't really discussed before or at least not for a couple decades. Something you have to consider is that you may have been thinking about a topic for days or weeks prior to starting the conversation with her. For her it is brand new and could be a surprise and somewhat shocking. That could be the source of the "This isn't the man I married" comment. What was the tone when she said that? Was it more like, "wow, this isn't the man I married, cool, I like it" or was it more like, "WTF, this isn't the man I married, who are you and what have you done with my man"? Either way, I think you have to keep working on these conversations. I told my wife straight up that I wanted to work with her to make sure we move into this new relationship without kids in the best possible way. I want this to be a great time for just US. We will always be their parents, but they are going to be starting their own lives and we get to be a couple again. Let's have fun with it!
> 
> Now our kids are 22 and 24 so we still aren't 100% empty nest, but very close. My oldest graduates in May, has a job lined up and is moving into her own apartment with her fiancé. My son is 5 hours away, but will be home for the summer with 1 more year of college to go. We are several years into these changes I initiated and I, and my wife, couldn't be happier. She is very grateful that I started these conversations and took the lead in moving us forward into this new relationship. She doesn't think she would have done anything about it herself, even though she shared many of the same concerns. You have to lead the charge on this, even if it means you aren't exactly the same man she married. You don't have to boil the ocean in one shot, but you have to start and you have to keep moving forward. Learn how to communicate better. Below is a link to a short article that can help with starting a conversation. The site has other useful info too. Worth a look around.
> 
> I'm not sure how this will be received by everyone here, but next to opening communication, my biggest tool has been sex and our intimacy. I tried to take us back to the levels of passion we had when we were a new couple and newlyweds. I truly date her. I truly romance her. I truly love to seduce her. I wanted her to be more in love and more bonded to me than any other time. This has worked so well. It is even apparent to people outside our marriage. She has a friend that has referred to us in the kindest of terms, as high school lovers. Not only has all this brought us immensely close, but it has gotten me laid like tile, lol.
> 
> I suggest the following.
> 
> Use the picture as an opportunity to let her know you have a healthy concern about the coming changes. That you think there is more to the picture being in the drawer than she has said. That you think she may have concerns too and you would like to know how she is really feeling. You can take the opportunity to acknowledge that her past experiences are part of the women you love today, but the past is the past and you want to focus on your marriage and your joint future.
> Let her know that you may be doing some things differently than you have previously, that you want to strengthen your already good marriage as you move into this new time in your relationship. She has to know it is totally coming from a place of love and caring for her and the marriage.
> Get to know each other all over again. My wife and I know each other so well, yet we would talk about all kinds of topics that a new couple may want to explore to get to know each other. Many times we would already know the answers to the questions, but it would make us reminisce about us. I turned it into a kind of game. I've never attached a file here before, so hopefully it works. The PDF has over 100 questions to ask each other. I cut them up and we alternated picking one randomly. The picker answered first, but the other person then answered too. Some were done in a few seconds, while others often started lengthy conversations. You don't have to do all in one sitting. We may do a few dozen and quit, then do some more a week or two or a month later. This isn't something that has to happen overnight. You can pull out any questions you aren't comfortable with and could even add some of your own.
> This is a small one, but can provide valuable insight into each other. Both of you should take the 5 love languages quiz. It will help you understand what each of you need to feel loved. Link is below. It is another great conversation starter.
> Date your wife. You can always do the standards, like dinner and a movie, but find new or different things too. We often go out to live music shows or go out dancing. Go for a drive or a hike. I recently bought the Adventure Challenge book that has some interesting date night ideas. Not long ago we did a goofy one where we went to a thrift shop and we bought outfits for each other and pretended to be someone else. I picked her name and she picked mine, just random names. We went out, had drinks and shot some pool while calling each other by our made up names. Then went to dinner and had sex that night as Sophia and Tristin, lol. Super goofy, but fun. I don't know your wife's personality. You will have to gauge if something like that will work for the two of you. Find what works for you, but keep it fresh.
> Keep this whole cycle up. Check back in on how she and you are doing. Keep dating her. Keep working on satisfying her sexually. Keep working on non-sexual intimacy.
> You said she has stated in the past that she wants "more", well here it is.
> 
> This is what has worked for me. It is likely you will need to tailor it to work for you, but I hope this gives you some assistance in moving in the right direction for you and her. The absolute key to this is it has to be a partnership. You need to lead, but your wife has to be fully onboard with working together in making your marriage the best marriage. Mine was, and is. That has been a key factor in making this work for us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to have a conversation - Uncovering Intimacy
> 
> 
> Do you know how to have a conversation? Are you sure? A lot of people think they know, but they're really just skilled at talking, not conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.uncoveringintimacy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Love Language™ Quiz
> 
> 
> Discover your primary love language and how you can use it to better connect with your loved ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.5lovelanguages.com



this is a very good and constructive post. I still can't shake why she would think this picture being left in the end would be appropriate but your above mentioned steps should be constructive.


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## ABHale

wmn1 said:


> this is a very good and constructive post. I still can't shake why she would think this picture being left in the end would be appropriate but your above mentioned steps should be constructive.


You know OP started another thread in the just found out.


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## wmn1

ABHale said:


> You know OP started another thread in the just found out.


I do


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## JWakk

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok I"m glad you see I"m trying to help you. Many times when trying to help I"m accused by a few select here as being man bashing. that is not my intention. I would like to ask...
> 
> You have set a boundary not to talk about her past or this guy..... But then you want an open honest conversation about why she has this picture. This is like a two sided coin. You can't really have it both ways. You have either shut off communication about this or you haven't.
> 
> I'm proud of you for finally being honest with her that it hurts your feelings but you have basically told her not to share her feelings or thoughts in the process.
> 
> Again. If I was your wife I wouldn't be very open at this point. As a person who loves you I wouldn't want to hurt you more and it's obvious you two are exactly an open book with each other. Further by trying to regulate her behavior you shut down honest communication.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean.. I trying to get you to see the position your wife is now in.
> 
> ETA: Further you can like something from the past without wanting it again. Like the woman above with her photo of her wedding day.


Yes you can but it's when the contact starts again that the problem is because you never really got over that person and that's when the problem starts. Personally because of the kind of person I am I would say if they start contact again go be with him and give me peace so I don't have to put up with the drama that will start from it. For me your either with me or against me their is no middle ground. Yes I am a hard person to get on with but you always know where you stand and my bounderies and I don't change them for anyone or anything.


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## JWakk

Quad73 said:


> You might get passionate about -this-.
> A potential double win if you approach it correctly.


Well this is the problem marrying someone who has been with others your always going to be compared to them one way or another. Yes they will deny this but in reality they are thinking of the other men especially when problems occur. This is one of the reasons I avoided western women when I married they have to many choices and they ruin themselves completely before they ever get married then when they do marry it's usually because they couldn't get the man they wanted so settle for someone they hope they will manage to suffer and guess what they end up unhappy even though the guy could be amazing and then the cheating starts.


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## JWakk

jsmart said:


> Hey @loblawbobblog have you done a deep search for this guy on social media or are you going by your wife telling you he doesn't have a social media presence ? Have you done a deep dive on your wife's phone to make sure she hasn't recently reached out to him again?
> 
> @Supermoon not to thread jack but it is actually on the same issue OP's dealing with; I'm with Blondi. Why would it take your husband having to say something for you to remove a pic of your wedding day with your ex for you to get rid of it or at the very least put away in some box as a stow away? I doubt any man is really ok with his wife having such a picture on her all the time. Him not saying anything could be him not wanting to come across has controlling. Just reading about you gushing about your wedding day made me uncomfortable for your husband and I don't even know you guys.


This is exactly the problem with todays men I wouldn't take any excuses and as soon as I smell BS I would be right in their with hard questions Screw the not wanting to hurt feelings If she decided to leave good riddance as I will not take second place to anyone.
Everyone on here is Pu**y footing around the issue trying to be nice, there is no nice in a situation like this.
This guy needs to start digging deep as they have been in contact and I'd bet he is coming her side of the woods at some point that is why she is trying to deflect and hide it.
I would search her phone all social media and places like Snap chat call me controlling but it's a mans job to protect his marriage and he can't do that with with his hands tied behind his back you take the bull by the horns and attack! Also check she hasn't an extra phone especially if she works.
My wife once tried Sh*t testing me and it backfired very badly on her believe me she hasn't done it again.
She knows if she doesn't like my rules which are fair and honest then the door is always open for her to leave.
Never and I mean never be in a relationship where you are scared they might leave you as it makes you so weak and pathetic.


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## JWakk

ABHale said:


> I disagree that it is something in your relationship.
> 
> How could your relationship be so bad that she is longing for an ex that beat her?
> 
> She is longing for the image she has in her head of her first love. She never really got over him.


Probably he has cleaned himself up and is doing ok now and is trying to get back in her life and because she never got closure as is said above he finished with her, So she has never got over the guy especially having his child this is a recipe for disaster just around the corner. He will ask to meet up to get closure with her and it will go from there so if her husband has any balls he will make sure this meet up either doesn't happen or if she even attempts to go meet her Ex tell her go stay with him and don't bother coming back because if she is willing to go anyway there marriage is over as she never loved him to start with just used him as her fall back plan.


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## JWakk

*Deidre* said:


> In the HBO series “Big Little Lies,” Reese Witherspoon plays Madeline who has a great house, loving husband, lives on the beach but is still upset over her ex husband walking out on her ten years prior. Her current husband starts to feel like her consolation prize but she tells him that she loves him and to not think that way.
> She said “It’s possible for me to love you with all my heart and...”
> 
> Her husband finishes her sentence with...
> 
> “...but still be hurt over your ex.”
> 
> This thread reminds me of that scene and perhaps, there’s some truth to that? I don’t know.😌


Yes and how many situations have you come across where the EX comes back into their life just to meet up so to speak for a chat and it ends up destroying the marriage. Yes if they never meet but the problems start when they do and as for Reese Witherspoon in that movie when an Ex has your heart your husband doesn't and I would not allow any woman with that issue in my life have you not seen all the destroyed marriages because of this kind of thinking. This is why MGTOW is taking off so strong, Normal men are just sick and tired of the BS that they are constantly attacked with. I give the white race probably 20 to 40 years and very few will exist because men are going abroad for Asian women as they are a much safer bet. Western women are destroying themselves and the fact they can't even see or understand it is ridiculous.


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## JWakk

Rob_1 said:


> @loblawbobblog : to me is very simple. I find a picture of an Ex of my wife, and I immediately would either destroy it right on the spot, or tell my wife that the picture must be destroyed NOW by her, right in front of me. I don't give a crap what some "sensitive" males or females think is Ok. If to me is not OK, then is not OK. I will not put up with that kind of disrespect, period. screw what anyone thinks, or consider appropriate. If YOU consider this inappropriate, then by all means have the BALLS to demand what you want.
> 
> Is not my marriage is yours, but, if I were in your situation and my wife refuses to destroy the photo, I can guarantee you that the next words out of my mouth would be the photo or I, NOW, make your decision or I will make it for you. I'm that black and white for this type of situations. I couldn't give a rat's ass if some uber sensitives think that I'm a insecure asshole. They can think all they want. It wouldn't matter to me one bit. The only thing that would matter to me would be my wife's decision about it.


Good for you my friend someone willing to speak up and not take the soft option, I feel and do exactly the same, It has nothing to do with insecurity everything to do with treating your partner right and if they don't the door is always open. Weak people will always try to make excuses for the partner because they are so scared to lose them. I would rather be alone than live in the shadow of another. Take the bull by the horns and attack!!!


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## JWakk

As'laDain said:


> I find it interesting that they guy is worried about what an old picture means, with people reading into the meaning of where it is, how it's hidden, how it is singled out from the rest of them, what it's about, etc...
> 
> ...and yet the people making such a big deal about it are claiming it's _*not*_ about insecurities?
> 
> Then what is the big deal about it? If it doesn't hit on insecurities, then why is it an issue?


No we aren't reading into anything we just know the games people play and can see through the BS where others fear to tread It comes with learning and experience. Soft people will always take the soft option afraid to hurt any ones feelings I just go for the jugular and find the truth. I will tell you in a number of vague situations like this on other sites the guy followed advise from those of us who opted for the hard option and every single time they found out their wives were either cheating or about to start cheating.
Honestly when you study enough of these cases thoroughly it all becomes so clear it stands out like a sore thump and believe me I have spent the last ten years doing exactly that studying relationships and break ups and studying lawyers who have actually talked about the signs of how relationships fall apart. 
This woman is gearing up to meet up with this EX and once she does the marriage is over because hubby has just been the fall back guy.


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## JWakk

Divinely Favored said:


> That's what I'm saying! Going on 25 yrs and in the honeymoon phase now. Do not want any other, do not fantasize about any other. When we said till death do we part, that means until we each die, not till our spouse dies. We will be together now and in the here after.


My question to you though is does she feel the same because most men will tell you their marriage is fantastic just two days before they get hit with the fact she was cheating recently or for years and they didn't have a clue.
Women are not like men past relationship do figure in their thinking and for some more than the man would ever realise and it usually isn't a problem if those others are know where at hand but if they are close then there is a problem.
But I wish you well and hope you have a happy life as we all deserve that.


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## BigDaddyNY

@JWakk 

You are replying to outdated posts. A lot more has been revealed about this in a new thread.


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## JWakk

As'laDain said:


> It's very possible that she seemed evasive because she knew you would blow it out of proportion. In the end, she did what you asked.


Evasiveness is part of not wanting to tell the truth all she had to do was be honest and say I just came across it the other day and was just thinking about the past and how my life is so much better then put the picture in lock up and don't take it out again "simple" but NO she side-tracks and denies she got it out Red Flags flying here for anyone willing to see, Then trying the guilt trip game, Sorry this doesn't fly with me.


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## JWakk

BigDaddyNY said:


> @JWakk
> 
> You are replying to outdated posts. A lot more has been revealed about this in a new thread.


Can you tell me the exact page to go to as I couldn't find it in the Just Found Out.


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## *Deidre*

JWakk said:


> Yes and how many situations have you come across where the EX comes back into their life just to meet up so to speak for a chat and it ends up destroying the marriage. Yes if they never meet but the problems start when they do and as for Reese Witherspoon in that movie when an Ex has your heart your husband doesn't and I would not allow any woman with that issue in my life have you not seen all the destroyed marriages because of this kind of thinking. This is why MGTOW is taking off so strong, Normal men are just sick and tired of the BS that they are constantly attacked with. I give the white race probably 20 to 40 years and very few will exist because men are going abroad for Asian women as they are a much safer bet. Western women are destroying themselves and the fact they can't even see or understand it is ridiculous.


It’s not just “western women” who have affairs, western men do as well. And globally, people have affairs. It’s not so much about geography or gender, it’s a character issue. That said, people can make one off mistakes (although affairs are choices), and if they’re remorseful, that’s a positive sign but serial cheaters continuously choose to do the wrong things.


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## BigDaddyNY

JWakk said:


> Can you tell me the exact page to go to as I couldn't find it in the Just Found Out.











.


Here's maybe a slightly different look at the situation. Looking back at the time of the affair, she wanted out of the relationship. I think she was an addict back then too. She had the affair in an attempt to get @loblawbobblog to leave her. To her surprise he wanted to fight for the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## JWakk

*Deidre* said:


> It’s not just “western women” who have affairs, western men do as well. And globally, people have affairs. It’s not so much about geography or gender, it’s a character issue. That said, people can make one off mistakes (although affairs are choices), and if they’re remorseful, that’s a positive sign but serial cheaters continuously choose to do the wrong things.


I have pointed this out many time on here but now we are talking about his wife, Yes western top 10 or 15 per cent do but women are much worse as they are all chasing that top per cent. I agree to a point that Men/women anywhere can have affairs but one thing I find in Asia is women are brought up with strict family values and they stick to supporting their families at least the country girls do City girls are to be avoided for the most part.
Here in the west the only values most have is get as much sex as possible and just use the man for his resources, I was watching a video the other night on "The Tribe" A woman very beautiful was on there trying to win $500.000 it was a program on marriage and questions you had to answer, she didn't realise she would be attached to a Lie detector and the kind of questions that would be asked. Her husband was a police officer they had been married only two years and according to him they were very happy. That is until the real hard questions had to be answered needless to say at the end of that program she was a divorced woman once the real truth came out it is said she is in a mental home now don't know if that is true.
My point here is far more women are screwing men over for just there resources than men doing it to women.
Yes there are the lazy "Bs" I know this but women are far better Manipulators in general. Of course there are good women out there but the bad ones are overshadowing them so they are never going to be seen if they don't take a stand and start speaking up.
I know women who are cheated on are hurt very badly and I really feel for them, I love women (good Women) and hate the bad ones I also know a strong man can be very Manipulative with a woman who is not aware of the tricks these men use.
But cheating is a choice which takes many moves to do and their are many times you can stop if you really love your partner. I have had many chances to cheat and have been pushed hard to do so but I push back equally as hard with a "NO" its a word that is in the dictionary and easy to say and mean.
Yes we can all slip up for many reasons and if my partner did and was honest with me then I would be hurt but get over it and work on why it happened but lie to me and gaslight me then it's bye bye and don't come back. But regular cheaters and those in long term affairs "No not acceptable" whatever excuse they use as they are using my resources but cheating with the other person just go use his resources and stay with him.
Yes I was cheated on after 22 years and 3 children one disabled her excuse she was bored with our life I was almost destroyed my brother saved me from ending myself but I have since learned women are 10 a penny so harming yourself over any of them is a ridiculous way to think. She thought she was on to a good thing the boss of her work and moved in with him needless to say once she got pregnant he threw her out or so I heard and ended up bringing up a child alone, no silly me to do the nappy changing as she knew she didn't dare show her face in my life ever. I know how hard it is to get over the hurt it took me nearly 20 years in fact my wife of now frequently used to help me when I would get triggered telling me calm down and don't think about it, it will pass. I have only just learned to forgive her but would never want anything to do with her.

Sorry for this being so long but I guess it makes my point.


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## JWakk

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you, but you won't find many other men that agree with you on this board


Your only insecure if you think you are I was never insecure in my relationship until I was blindsided then it made me wake up to what women are really like now I "trust but verify" which has nothing to do with being insecure weak men are the insecure whingers if you have to ask what to do if a partner cheats on you you seriously need help. Sometimes I cringed when I hear men crying for help when their woman cheats on them, Of course she will cheat because she knows he is too weak to do anything about it. There is a complete difference to being good to a woman and being a total doormat.


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## JWakk

BigDaddyNY said:


> .
> 
> 
> Here's maybe a slightly different look at the situation. Looking back at the time of the affair, she wanted out of the relationship. I think she was an addict back then too. She had the affair in an attempt to get @loblawbobblog to leave her. To her surprise he wanted to fight for the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com


Thank you this should be interesting Just show my learning has not been for nothing.


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## JWakk

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Folks,
> 
> OP created another post where he tells of finding out his wife had a string of ONS's many years ago, while they were in counseling together.
> 
> He only recently found out and he hasn't confronted her yet.
> 
> This puts his wife's photo of her ex in a whole new light.


Like I originally said there is always more to what you see so I had it spot on from all my studies and learning.
I have never advocated not sharing with my wife of course we discuss things but a man must be the leader even though you discuss everything together but once cheated on there is Know going back for me as I could never trust that person again.


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## *Deidre*

JWakk said:


> I have pointed this out many time on here but now we are talking about his wife, Yes western top 10 or 15 per cent do but women are much worse as they are all chasing that top per cent. I agree to a point that Men/women anywhere can have affairs but one thing I find in Asia is women are brought up with strict family values and they stick to supporting their families at least the country girls do City girls are to be avoided for the most part.
> Here in the west the only values most have is get as much sex as possible and just use the man for his resources, I was watching a video the other night on "The Tribe" A woman very beautiful was on there trying to win $500.000 it was a program on marriage and questions you had to answer, she didn't realise she would be attached to a Lie detector and the kind of questions that would be asked. Her husband was a police officer they had been married only two years and according to him they were very happy. That is until the real hard questions had to be answered needless to say at the end of that program she was a divorced woman once the real truth came out it is said she is in a mental home now don't know if that is true.
> My point here is far more women are screwing men over for just there resources than men doing it to women.
> Yes there are the lazy "Bs" I know this but women are far better Manipulators in general. Of course there are good women out there but the bad ones are overshadowing them so they are never going to be seen if they don't take a stand and start speaking up.
> I know women who are cheated on are hurt very badly and I really feel for them, I love women (good Women) and hate the bad ones I also know a strong man can be very Manipulative with a woman who is not aware of the tricks these men use.
> But cheating is a choice which takes many moves to do and their are many times you can stop if you really love your partner. I have had many chances to cheat and have been pushed hard to do so but I push back equally as hard with a "NO" its a word that is in the dictionary and easy to say and mean.
> Yes we can all slip up for many reasons and if my partner did and was honest with me then I would be hurt but get over it and work on why it happened but lie to me and gaslight me then it's bye bye and don't come back. But regular cheaters and those in long term affairs "No not acceptable" whatever excuse they use as they are using my resources but cheating with the other person just go use his resources and stay with him.
> Yes I was cheated on after 22 years and 3 children one disabled her excuse she was bored with our life I was almost destroyed my brother saved me from ending myself but I have since learned women are 10 a penny so harming yourself over any of them is a ridiculous way to think. She thought she was on to a good thing the boss of her work and moved in with him needless to say once she got pregnant he threw her out or so I heard and ended up bringing up a child alone, no silly me to do the nappy changing as she knew she didn't dare show her face in my life ever. I know how hard it is to get over the hurt it took me nearly 20 years in fact my wife of now frequently used to help me when I would get triggered telling me calm down and don't think about it, it will pass. I have only just learned to forgive her but would never want anything to do with her.
> 
> Sorry for this being so long but I guess it makes my point.


I’m sorry you’ve been through so much.


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## Divinely Favored

JWakk said:


> My question to you though is does she feel the same because most men will tell you their marriage is fantastic just two days before they get hit with the fact she was cheating recently or for years and they didn't have a clue.
> Women are not like men past relationship do figure in their thinking and for some more than the man would ever realise and it usually isn't a problem if those others are know where at hand but if they are close then there is a problem.
> But I wish you well and hope you have a happy life as we all deserve that.


Yes we are on the same page. My wife's prior hubby was a serial cheater that she married at 17. She hated even having to go get her old marriage license in order to get her "real id" state DL.


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