# What do I do? MIL issues, Money issues, relationship in tatters.... Too many?



## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

*{Note: Canusa57 says that he accidently deleted his post. I rebuilt it from the quotes of is post in replies in this thread. ~ EleGirl}*

In 2000, 6 years after we got married, I immigrated to Canada. My wife did not want to move there

That unfortunately was not the last time she accused me of separating her from her"Family".

Since I moved to Canada, and then to the US till 02/2020) , I visited India 5 times. It was on one of the visits I realized that what my wife considered family was merely her WIDOWED MOTHER.

On one of my visits to India, my mother in law indrectly accused me of serparting her daughter from her by moving to Canada and then to the US.

So how is this hurting me?
1) My Wife visits India almost every 18 months, spending 3 to 6 months during her visit. On two occasions, she took my daughter out of middle school and stayed with her mom. My daughter was in grade 6, and the school in Canada had no issues with that. On the downside, my daughter spent 6 months at home with her mom and grand mother.

I did the math and it appears that my wife has spent 7-8 years of the last 26 years away from me to spend time with her mom.

My daughter is a spendthrift and went to an out of state university, I spent over 120 K on her tuition, air fare from Phoenix to Dallas, her shopping, Uber, and other avoidable expenses. I have take out 76 K from the equity of my house to fund this.

I believe that my mother in law has been solely responsible for ruining our marriage (with the cooperation of my wife).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your relationship does sound miserable. 

If you divorce, do you think your wife will move back to India? Is she able to support herself?


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

1) My daughter came to Canada when she was 3. She’s now 23. As much she likes india, she could never settle in india. My wife loves pur daughter way too much to go back to India for good. Probably she’ll divide her time between our daughter and her mom.

2) No my wife can’t support herself, financially.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm assuming that you intend to divorce. Have you seen an attorney yet to see what you need to do to get yourself into the best position possible?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Where do you live and work now? Canada, or the US?


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Where do you live and work now? Canada, or the US?


I live in the US.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> I'm assuming that you intend to divorce. Have you seen an attorney yet to see what you need to do to get yourself into the best position possible?


I haven’t arrived at a decision yet. I
Know that while divorce may be an easy way out , that’s not always a solution.

I am torn between divorce and finding another solution. I don’t know who to pin the responsibility wit, for the situation .. precisely why I posted on this forum to get different perspectives.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Well, since you asked for other views ... can you see ways in which you contributed to the problem?


Canusa57 said:


> In 2000, 6 years after we got married, I immigrated to Canada. My wife did not want to move there


Okay ... you moved, knowing that she didn't want to? 



> That unfortunately was not the last time she accused me of separating her from her"Family".


What do you mean, "accused"?



> Since I moved to Canada, and then to the US till 02/2020) , I visited India 5 times. It was on one of the visits I realized that what my wife considered family was merely her WIDOWED MOTHER.


Merely? Merely?? Have you any idea how that sounds? If her mother is important to her, then who are you to say "merely"?



> On one of my visits to India, my mother in law indrectly accused me of serparting her daughter from her by moving to Canada and then to the US.


Again, what do you mean "accused"? Isn't that what happened, by your choice?



> So how is this hurting me?
> 1) My Wife visits India almost every 18 months, spending 3 to 6 months during her visit. On two occasions, she took my daughter out of middle school and stayed with her mom. My daughter was in grade 6, and the school in Canada had no issues with that. On the downside, my daughter spent 6 months at home with her mom and grand mother.
> 
> I did the math and it appears that my wife has spent 7-8 years of the last 26 years away from me to spend time with her mom.


I doubt if this absence is what bothers you. (Especially since you say you're not happy with her). Many men would consider it a benefit to have the occasional 3-6 month sabbatical from their wife. 

How is your relationship the other three quarters of the time? Good, or not good? Why?


> My daughter is a spendthrift and went to an out of state university, I spent over 120 K on her tuition, air fare from Phoenix to Dallas, her shopping, Uber, and other avoidable expenses. I have take out 76 K from the equity of my house to fund this.


I'm not in the US and have no idea if that is a reasonable amount for this to cost, or not. But, surely that's on you? You can't take equity out of your house and then blame her?



> I believe that my mother in law has been solely responsible for ruining our marriage (with the cooperation of my wife).


You have no chance, unless you can figure out what YOUR part in this is, and WHY.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Canusa57 said:


> I haven’t arrived at a decision yet. I
> Know that while divorce may be an easy way out , that’s not always a solution.
> 
> I am torn between divorce and finding another solution. I don’t know who to pin the responsibility wit, for the situation .. precisely why I posted on this forum to get different perspectives.


You'd better pin it on yourself, because then you have some chance of fixing it. 
If you pin it on your wife or her mother, they're not going to accept it, and nothing will change.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I guess the most important question is, _why_ did you move from India? 

How did your wife's thoughts on it factor in to the decision?


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

I moved out of India, mainly because of the quality of life.As an immigrant that started a new life in Canada and then in the US,I have done well in life. I went there initially by myself, and my wife joined me later.

on a side note, my wife says she loves me misses me, admires me on many fronts. On the other hand, when she hears her mom say how much she misses her, that takes precedence over everything.

I don’t say that her love for her mom is wrong ir misplaced. How that’s impacting our relationship is what concerns me.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Well, since you asked for other views ... can you see ways in which you contributed to the problem?
> 
> How did I contribute to this?
> 
> ...


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> You'd better pin it on yourself, because then you have some chance of fixing it.
> If you pin it on your wife or her mother, they're not going to accept it, and nothing will change.


What do you mean by “pin it to yourself “? If you believe it’s up to me to me to find a solution..i posted on this forum to get perspectives on a possible solution.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Canusa57 said:


> What do you mean by “pin it to yourself “? If you believe it’s up to me to me to find a solution..i posted here because I thought I could get different perspectives on this.
> 
> I can shamelessly admit that I can’t deal with it myself.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Canusa57 said:


> What do you mean by “pin it to yourself “? If you believe it’s up to me to me to find a solution..i posted on this forum to get perspectives on a possible solution.


I think what he means is that you are the only one’s behavior that you can control. From my perspective, it sounds like you made the decision to move instead of it being a family decision. Your wife is doing what she needs to do to feel okay. She is not going to change. (And honestly I am not sure she should, as you don’t sound very supportive.) So if you don’t like the situation, the only option you have is to end the marriage. Making her conform to your expectations isn’t realistic or fair. If you want to improve your marriage, then you should consider how you can be more supportive of your wife’s emotional needs. It’s obvious that extended family is important to her, and she misses that connection. 

As for your daughter, she’s an adult. You are not obligated to pay for her living expenses. Quit paying them. She has no reason to budget if you keep paying for everything.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

I want to thank everyone for their perspectives. Thanks for your time and effort.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Canusa57 said:


> I moved out of India, mainly because of the quality of life.As an immigrant that started a new life in Canada and then in the US,I have done well in life. I went there initially by myself, and my wife joined me later.
> 
> on a side note, my wife says she loves me misses me, admires me on many fronts. On the other hand, when she hears her mom say how much she misses her, that takes precedence over everything.
> 
> I don’t say that her love for her mom is wrong ir misplaced. How that’s impacting our relationship is what concerns me.


Honestly, I think this is your wife's choice, and my advice is just to respect it.

She can choose between living near her mother or living near her husband. And that's basically where it's at. It sucks, but that's the way things are.

If she leaves, cut the strings and divorce. Just move ahead cleanly, respectfully, and as amicably as you can. If she stays, make sure she can stay in contact with her mother as much as possible - visits (maybe bringing her to you would be easier), facetime, whatever. Make time for it and support it if she wants to stay.

Sometimes life leads you to a fork in the path, and you have to choose one path or another. This is where she's at.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Marduk said:


> Honestly, I think this is your wife's choice, and my advice is just to respect it.
> 
> She can choose between living near her mother or living near her husband. And that's basically where it's at. It sucks, but that's the way things are.
> 
> ...


About this:
If she leaves, cut the strings and divorce. Just move ahead cleanly, respectfully, and as amicably as you can. If she stays, make sure she can stay in contact with her mother as much as possible - visits (maybe bringing her to you would be easier), facetime, whatever. Make time for it and support it if she wants to stay.

I have been very respectful - and have so far got my mother in law to both Canada and USA, multiple times. I have funded her tickets, stay, health insurance etc. All that seems to be just a band aid because she misses her daughter the moment she is back in India. 

To those who think I am not supportive, I have nothing to say except that I have done everything in my power to please people involved. Life is all about doing and I don't know if my being a pleaser made things worse or not. Once again, I say this with utmost humility - not arrogance.

Thanks for your perspective.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Question, and you have probably already considered this (if THEY are willing) -- what about moving your MIL to live NEAR you in the U.S.? I'm sure she has other close family in India, but if her daughter is the primary, maybe she would be open to this (NOT live WITH YOU, just near you!)


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Actually there's a lot of MIL's like yours.

IMO you have a toxic MIL that does not prioritize what's best for her daughter and grand daughter; and use's guilt & nagging as a tool to manipulate her daughter. You are all a victim of the MIL but particularly your wife that was probably brain washed and raised to seek the MIL's approval. 

I don't think there's anything you can do to change the MIL. However, you may be able to help your wife 'separate' emotionally from her mother. IMO it's not appropriate for your wife's happiness to be tied to her mother's approval at the expense of the improved quality of life for herself and your daughter.

The problem with an overwhelming need for mom's approval is it results in the mom inserting herself into your marriage (inappropriate); and worse it results in your wife considering self destructive behavior (e.g., moving back to India).

Neither you or your wife can change the MIL. However, your wife can seek counseling to help her separate from her 'mommy' and not feel so responsible for her mother's happiness. The counseling can occur as a 'couple' or separately.

It's not an easy fix for your wife. It will take a lot of time so it's important she is motivated. 

The MIL needs to risk loosing something (a consequence) from her nagging. At some point your wife will be strong enough to explain to the MIL that she needs to stop nagging about moving back to India (or the MIL will have much less contact with her daughter and granddaughter.

Good luck.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Robert22205 said:


> Actually there's a lot of MIL's like yours.
> 
> IMO you have a toxic MIL that does not prioritize what's best for her daughter and grand daughter; and use's guilt & nagging as a tool to manipulate her daughter. You are all a victim of the MIL but particularly your wife that was probably brain washed and raised to seek the MIL's approval.
> 
> ...


I've spent a bit of time in India and have worked with lots of Indians - and there's a very large cultural component at play that many westerners, including myself, have troubles with.

For example, one of my employees (who is Canadian but first generation - his parents are from India) married an Indian girl. The only way she was 'allowed' to marry him and move to Canada was if they lived with his parents.

So they did. And nearly divorced over it, of course. So they moved out - and her parents demanded they move back home and live with them. Family groupings and expectations are different. Of course they said no... but now they are both disowned by both of their families.

There's some heavy cultural overlays at play here. For some groups, it's expected that they live with either the paternal or maternal parents until they die, take care of them, and essentially live to support them forever. And it's expected of your children to do the same for you.

It's a tough cycle to break when it encounters more western expectations of cutting the apron strings.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Robert22205 said:


> Actually there's a lot of MIL's like yours.
> 
> IMO you have a toxic MIL that does not prioritize what's best for her daughter and grand daughter; and use's guilt & nagging as a tool to manipulate her daughter. You are all a victim of the MIL but particularly your wife that was probably brain washed and raised to seek the MIL's approval.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the perspective. 

I think it is about my MIL's need to feel important, loved, and admired. There is nothing wrong in that - except that it has become so overbearing that it could lead to us separating - and getting divorced. 

I remember an incident that my wife mentioned: My wife worked as a teacher in a college, prior to our marriage, in a city that was 500 miles away from where my MIL lived . My wife said that her mom nagged her so much that she ultimately quit her stable job, returned to the city where her mom lived, and took up a job that paid less. 

The problem is this: My wife realizes that she is being controlled by her mom - she'd say a little bit and stop there (maybe she feels guilty about saying saying "not so nice" things about her mom). So one part of her says that she loves me, and another part of her says that she must feel guilty because she is not physically close to her mom. This has a lot to do with the "Guilt tripping" that has been going on, over the years.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> Question, and you have probably already considered this (if THEY are willing) -- what about moving your MIL to live NEAR you in the U.S.? I'm sure she has other close family in India, but if her daughter is the primary, maybe she would be open to this (NOT live WITH YOU, just near you!)


MY MIL has come to the US and Canada multiple times,
When we were in Canada I offered to file for her immigration, but she wasn't interested. She wanted to be in India to be close to her other children. She cannot immigrate to the US because of the current laws.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Where do you live and work now? Canada, or the US?


In the US.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My advise is that you accept it or you move on. It’s not possible to change either your MIL or your wife. They’re going to do what they want so you’ll have to do what you want — whatever that might be.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I guess what I'm not fully clear about, is what your objection is to what's happening? Why does it bother you if your wife makes these visits?


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> I guess what I'm not fully clear about, is what your objection is to what's happening? Why does it bother you if your wife makes these visits?


What bothers me is that these long visits - 4-6 months at short intervals is putting a big strain on our relationship. We are growing apart, to say the least. Also I am the sole breadwinner, and this is putting a very big strain on our finances. At my age, as a family we can ill afford these trips. A trip to India at high season could cost$ 4000 - $ 5000 (including air fare, stay, shopping and other expenses).I pay for these - her family does not.

I think this isn't good for the health of our relationship and finances., and I know that for a fact.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> What bothers me is that these long visits - 4-6 months at short intervals is putting a big strain on our relationship. We are growing apart, to say the least. Also I am the sole breadwinner, and this is putting a very big strain on our finances. At my age, as a family we can ill afford these trips. A trip to India at high season could cost$ 4000 - $ 5000 (including air fare, stay, shopping and other expenses).I pay for these - her family does not.
> 
> I think this isn't good for the health of our relationship and finances., and I know that for a fact.


If anyone can be at fault here it's our wife and/or you. Why do I say that? Because your MIL is not part of your marriage. It's your wife go is running off to spend months at a time with her mother. She should not really being doing this as it's hurting your marriage. And you have been facilitating her trips by paying for them. Just as you facilitated your daughter spending far too much money during her time at university.

My son is finishing up his Phd in Physcis. We did not spend anything near that for his education.

If these trips are too expense, you need to tell your wife. If you cannot afford it, perhaps she needs to get a job and pay for the trips herself. That would also limit the amount of time she spends in India.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

*"And you have been facilitating her trips by paying for them. Just as you facilitated your daughter spending far too much money during her time at university"*

You are 100 % right.
I think I am the "weak" one? I wanted to satisfy her whim - or thought she would leave me if I didn't agree to her frequent (and costly) overseas trips.

*On a different note, do you think I could salvage the situation? We haven't taken a trip together - we haven't been intimate in a very long time - work, menopause, stress from small fights etc being the reasons.
Do you think I could try re-working on this by having some personal time with my wife, taking a trip. Maybe some frequent intimacy would help distract her? I don't know - just asking,*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> *"And you have been facilitating her trips by paying for them. Just as you facilitated your daughter spending far too much money during her time at university"*
> 
> You are 100 % right.
> I think I am the "weak" one? I wanted to satisfy her whim - or thought she would leave me if I didn't agree to her frequent (and costly) overseas trips.


I'm not sure that it's being weak as much as you being a caring person who wants your wife and child to have what they want.

I do tend to be that way too and have had to learn to stop myself when what my family wants is not good for all of us as a whole, or seriously not good for me.

*


Canusa57 said:



On a different note, do you think I could salvage the situation? We haven't taken a trip together - we haven't been intimate in along time. Do you think I could try re-working on this by having some personal time with my wife, taking a trip. Maybe some frequent intimacy would help distract her? I don't know - just asking,

Click to expand...

* You will have a lot of people on here tell you no, that there is nothing that you can do.

I completely disagree. I've seen marriages that seem to be completely broken come back from the ashes.

You are the person who is having trouble with the status quo, so you are going to have to be the person who takes the lead here. What can you do?

I think it will be months before your wife can travel anywhere due to the pandemic. (I assume that your wife is not in India right now.) So you have some time right now to work on your relationship with your wife. You all have time to explain to her that the two of you can no longer afford all her trips. You have to save for retirement. If you have investments they were probably seriously hurt with the huge downturn in the stock market and all the businesses going on lock down.

Are you still working, or did the company you work for shut down for now?

There are two books that I often suggest for people having problem in their marriage that can be fixed by restructuring your relationship. They are written from a Christian perspective. But I think that they would probably fit your situation too as most people from traditional backgrounds tend to live by similar ideas. (The book is not preachy Christian, but sort of taking concepts of the roles of men and women in marriage.)

The books are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". If you read them, read them in that order. The idea is to first identify the things that each of you do that are 'busting' your love for each other. Then identify each your needs and then you both start meeting each others needs.

The books use the idea of a 'love bank'. When a person does things that are love busters, it withdraws from their spouses 'love bank'. When they meet their spouses need, the spouse's it deposits good things into their spouse's 'love bank'. A bit silly, but it gets the idea across.

You mention starting to spend more time with her. That's very important. The more quality time you two spend together, just the two of you, the more your 'love banks' fill up.. the more passion that is created in your relationship.

The book "His Needs, Her Needs" says that a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together in quality time, just the two of you.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> You will have a lot of people on here tell you no, that there is nothing that you can do.
> I completely disagree. I've seen marriages that seem to be completely broken come back from the ashes.
> 
> You are the person who is having trouble with the status quo, so you are going to have to be the person who takes the lead here. What can you do?
> ...




My response: Unfortunately my wife is India now. She went to "take care" of her mom. was supposed to be with her for her cataract surgeries. The first one was over on 3/6, and she postponed her trip for the second one. Between that day and today, I ended up losing at least $ 3000 in change fees, fare difference etc. First the airlines cancelled their flights, then the Government in India. At this time, she is supposed to leave on 4/17, if she can - unless she can take one of the "Rescue flights" that are operated on behalf of the US government.

*


EleGirl said:



Are you still working, or did the company you work for shut down for now?

Click to expand...

*
Fortunately I am still working. I work in IT, and my company has billions in reserves - they haven't laid off a single employee.



EleGirl said:


> There are two books that I often suggest for people having problem in their marriage that can be fixed by restructuring your relationship. They are written from a Christian perspective. But I think that they would probably fit your situation too as most people from traditional backgrounds tend to live by similar ideas. (The book is not preachy Christian, but sort of taking concepts of the roles of men and women in marriage.)
> 
> The books are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". If you read them, read them in that order. The idea is to first identify the things that each of you do that are 'busting' your love for each other. Then identify each your needs and then you both start meeting each others needs.
> 
> ...


*

Thank you so much for taking the trouble of writing so much in detail. 

About the intimacy part - Does frequent intimacy bring people together - Do hormones play a part in bringing people together - just curious if that is a route I can take, since travel seems to be a distant dream, with what;'s going on in the world*


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

*There is a facet about my wife that I wanted to mention. All this thing about misplaced priorities apart, she is an extremely kind hearted, pious, and soft spoken person. She isn't the kind that can even hurt an ant, or even be unkind even in thought. She is extremely organized, and will go to any lengths to help even a stranger, without batting an eyelid. She can make friends in a jiffy and continue lifelong friendships. 

None of this might have a bearing on what is happening, but I thought I should let folks here know.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> My response: Unfortunately my wife is India now. She went to "take care" of her mom. was supposed to be with her for her cataract surgeries. The first one was over on 3/6, and she postponed her trip for the second one. Between that day and today, I ended up losing at least $ 3000 in change fees, fare difference etc. First the airlines cancelled their flights, then the Government in India. At this time, she is supposed to leave on 4/17, if she can - unless she can take one of the "Rescue flights" that are operated on behalf of the US government.


Sorry to hear this. I hope she can get back sooner than later.



Canusa57 said:


> Fortunately I am still working. I work in IT, and my company has billions in reserves - they haven't laid off a single employee.


Good!

*


Canusa57 said:



Thank you so much for taking the trouble of writing so much in detail. 

About the intimacy part - Does frequent intimacy bring people together - Do hormones play a part in bringing people together - just curious if that is a route I can take, since travel seems to be a distant dream, with what;'s going on in the world

Click to expand...

*Yes, frequent intimacy can bring a couple together. Are you familiar with the hormone Oxycontin? It's the bonding hormone. They are intimacy, the more of this hormone that a person's body/brain produce and uptake. Also, being close together physically, talking, touching, holding hands, etc. do so on a lower level but but are all good for keeping the levels up.

One of the problems with your wife being away so much of the time is that the bond can be lost, you two clearly do not spend enough time together.

Women need a lot of non-sexual intimacy. There is a saying that is simplistic but it has a point. "Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a place."

What is non-sexual intimacy and how to build it... just a couple of links on this.









Intimacy Without Intercourse


When sexual intercourse isn't possible, it doesn't mean you can't be intimate. Learn other sensual ways to enhance intimacy in your relationship.




www.healthywomen.org













11 Non-Sexual Ways To Increase The Intimacy In Your Relationship


After the initial hot and heavy stage that every couple experiences — when you actually shower, shave, and brush your teeth before each date — things naturally cool off a bit. It’s the stage where …




thoughtcatalog.com





Even with the shutdown you can do thinks that will bring the two of you together. The second link above has ideas for some things to do.

Having conversations is important. It's also hard to come up with things to talk about, especially if when a couple has been married for a long time. I have a 'conversation starter' book that I have used a lot at time to just get the conversation started. It may seem silly, but it really works. Here are some links to web pages with conversation starters for couples.









153 Deep Conversation Starters For Couples


Wondering about how to start any conversation with your partner? Read on for a list of conversation starters for couples to make it an exciting and fun date.




www.momjunction.com












200 Questions for couples


A huge list of questions for couples. Get to know your partner with questions about relationships, family, sex, and kids.




conversationstartersworld.com












53 Best Conversation Starters for Couples - Fun Topics To Talk About Today


Conversation starters for couples are essential because a good conversation starter inspires better conversations. Through great conversation starters, you can make all aspects of your relationship easier. However, coming up with the right questions to ask can be tricky. Having written loads of...




www.mantelligence.com





Do you talk to your wife a lot either on the phone or on something like Skype when she's in India?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> *There is a facet about my wife that I wanted to mention. All this thing about misplaced priorities apart, she is an extremely kind hearted, pious, and soft spoken person. She isn't the kind that can even hurt an ant, or even be unkind even in thought. She is extremely organized, and will go to any lengths to help even a stranger, without batting an eyelid. She can make friends in a jiffy and continue lifelong friendships.
> 
> None of this might have a bearing on what is happening, but I thought I should let folks here know.*


She sounds like a lovely person. This might very well explain why she is to attentive to her mother. 

She might see you as strong and a person who can handle the attention she gives to her mother.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Canusa57 said:


> I haven’t arrived at a decision yet. I
> Know that while divorce may be an easy way out , that’s not always a solution.
> 
> I am torn between divorce and finding another solution. I don’t know who to pin the responsibility wit, for the situation .. precisely why I posted on this forum to get different perspectives.


Its hard to advise you when you've deleted most of your original post.


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## jimmyrich (Apr 10, 2020)

Canusa57 said:


> However my home life is in shambles.


I would need a lot more info to start but I can say that if the sense of "friendship" has died in a relationship, everything else will be either insufficient or actually toxic as the unfriendliness slowly kills one or both partners. Can you think of any way to rebuild or restore the mutual love and friendship that MAY have been there at the beginning? good luck, jim


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm closing this thread since the OP deleted most of his first post.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

First off, this might be one of the longest posts. I don't know if I can shorten this without losing context - so Thanks for your patience in reading this.

There has to be a context to every situation. Some of them are cultural, age, etc. So I am a South Asian from India - Highly educated, widely travelled, work in IT (like most brown dues from India do). I also happen to be married for 25 years, and have a daughter that is 22 years old. Typical Story from South Asia - but has a twist. This is a toxic marriage, and if you ask me why I lived through this for so long, I was dumb, numb and crazy.

Short courtship and marriage - a good wife and a JEALOUS, INSECURE, MANIPULATIVE *widowed "Mother in law" (MIL) *that is root cause of the break up, waiting to happen..

So what happened? Everything was hunky dory till we were in India. I decide to move to the west in 2000 and the troubles begin.

Stage 1: I go by myself to "Settle down" in the new country. The wife stays with her mom for over a year. The "indoctrination", the "emotional blackmail" begins. She keeps telling my wife how she feels betrayed, let down, lonely because she (my wife) will join me in abroad.

Stage 2: The wife gets influenced by her mom, starts making long yearly trips to India, We end up raking thousands of dollars in credit card debt. The wife takes my daughter out of school for months on end to join her in her trips to India.

*Consequences:* The relationship is falling apart, the wife keeps getting guilt tripped and we are sinking in debt. Meanwhile the wife keeps threatening me because *"I Separated her from her family" (Read Mom)*, because the wife's siblings are themselves married and live by themselves. While all this happening, the MIL is living by herself. We have frequent fights and I am guilt tripped to believing that I am a "BAD PERSON" because I separated daughter from Mom. 

Years go by and the relationship is now in tatters - *Thank you Mother in law!. Your manipulation has worked... Congrats!*

*What now? (*Fast forward 25 + years) I feel worthless, down, frustrated, depressed and lose all self esteem. The daughter who is now 22 joins her mom in isolating me while ruining me financially (She goes to an out of state school, runs thousands of dollars in Uber/flight expenses, and I end up discharging her debt. Why did I do that? I am painted in a corner by the Mom-Daughter duo, and I am a coward and wimp. The daughter becomes a "social media influencer" gets a high paying job and thumbs her nose at Dad. She is ungrateful, and rude, to say the least.

*Then what? ** I am very lost, confused, distressed and depressed. Meanwhile I am also busy with work. When I am not at work, I think of taking my own life. I think that will put en end to misery. I will no longer feel the anguish, I will no longer feel worthless, and they (my wife and daughter) will cry some, and go on with their lives. The wife will go to live with her mom, the daughter will cary on with her job.*

*So why won't I do it? * I am a coward, I don't have the courage to do that. There are myriads of questions that criss cross my mind All those "WHAT IF" questions. What if I don't succeed in my suicide attempt? What if I am saved and am a nervous wreck? What if I become a "vegetable". What if I survive and then have pain for the rest of my life? . Then someone tells me that if I killed myself, I would be reborn to re-live the rest of my natural life (Does that make sense? I don't know. I am also asking myself how I'lll hurt my immediate family, my mom, and my siblings. OK, the wife and daughter won't miss me, but won't I punish others - my siblings, my dear friends with what I did? *I don't know, and so I am still alive!*

*Plan B: ** My plan B is to physically separate from the wife. At some time we can go in for a divorce. During one of the fights we had recently I told her that this wasn't working. She didn't say anything except "It's OK" . I don't know what this means, but for my sanity, for my self respect and for me to earn towards my retirement, I need to do this. This is not to punish the wife or daughter. This is after all these years, ABOUT ME.
The wife can live with her mom, and the daughter can get on with her life.

I have many questions :

1) Am I doing something wrong? My wife is educated, but has never led her own life, doing stuff for herself - for the last 25 + years.

2) Despite all that she had done with her frequent absences, she's a good person in many ways. I still love her (I am angry at myself for being a wimp). Is this a contradiction of sorts? Should I not be hating her for ruining my life? I can't seem to do that. 

3) How do I deal with the "separation"? How can I "lessen" the pain - or is that a wrong expectation?

4) My wife won't see a counsellor. In the Indian context, this is an "family matter", besides she consider her duty towards her mom paramount. I don't see anything good happening in the relationship - it's hollow, worn out and almost dead. Is there something else I should be doing?

Please help with your views and advice...... and Yes, I might have more questions. Once again, Thanks for your patience and understanding!!*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> I have many questions :
> 
> 1) Am I doing something wrong? My wife is educated, but has never led her own life, doing stuff for herself - for the last 25 + years.


What you are doing is that blaming your wife and beating yourself up as well. This will never solve your issues.

The very fact that you are talking about suicide means that you are in a very bad place. You need to get help. Please see a doctor to see if antidepressants would help you and also get into counseling for yourself.

You need to start doing things for yourself and taking care of yourself.



Canusa57 said:


> 2) Despite all that she had done with her frequent absences, she's a good person in many ways. I still love her (I am angry at myself for being a wimp). Is this a contradiction of sorts? Should I not be hating her for ruining my life? I can't seem to do that.


It sounds like you are going through a serious depression. Have you considered seeing a doctor to get help with it?

Did she ruin your life? Or have you come to a point in your life in which you need to do some serious evaluation and figure out whom you have become and what you want the rest of your life to look like?



Canusa57 said:


> 3) How do I deal with the "separation"? How can I "lessen" the pain - or is that a wrong expectation?


The only way to lesson the emotional pain is to walk right through the middle of and experience very lousy bit of it. I speak from experience.

There is one thing that can help and that's antidepressants. They take away the worst of it so that you can deal with the issues. Also things like physical exercise can help... long walks is one very good one. Do you do any sort of exercise now?



Canusa57 said:


> 4) My wife won't see a counsellor. In the Indian context, this is an "family matter", besides she consider her duty towards her mom paramount. I don't see anything good happening in the relationship - it's hollow, worn out and almost dead. Is there something else I should be doing?


If she will not go to counseling, then you can go by yourself. If you go by yourself, it's not a "family matter" but instead a personal one. And I think you REALLY need to go to counseling and perhaps see a doctor for antidepressants.



Canusa57 said:


> Please help with your views and advice...... and Yes, I might have more questions. Once again, Thanks for your patience and understanding!!


Do you have another account on here? Someone posted a story exactly like this a few days ago. Was that you?


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

I apologize for not replying individually to each of you. I had posted previously, but as dumb as it sounds, I was editing my post to add some info - and ended up deleting most of the post. As a result, the thread was locked- for there was no context to my issues. If had pasted the entire the contents of my post elsewhere, I could have added the deleted portion, but as the old adage goes, hindsight is 20: 20. Once again apologies for the mess up.

[B][I]EleGirl[/I][/B]_*: I want to thank you for your advice. I was not aware that I could go for counseling myself. I will see a doctor/counsellor and seek treatment. I might be depressed as you say. I must say that in most situations I have been very strong, and may be should do the same here too.

I am sorry if I sounded like someone that does not take responsibility - that I am blaming the others involved. In all situations (maybe this is an exception), I stand by my actions and inactions - I do not blame others for things that happened to me. Rightfully said, there might have been a better way to deal with it. Probably I was too much consumed by the situation, felt ashamed or guilty of inaction - which is why my post might come as one where I have shifted the blame.
*_
*To everyone else that has provided inputs, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. You could have chosen to just ignore this as "another rant:". That you chose to respond is something I do not take lightly.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> I apologize for not replying individually to each of you. I had posted previously, but as dumb as it sounds, I was editing my post to add some info - and ended up deleting most of the post. As a result, the thread was locked- for there was no context to my issues. If had pasted the entire the contents of my post elsewhere, I could have added the deleted portion, but as the old adage goes, hindsight is 20: 20. Once again apologies for the mess up.


It's all fixed now. All's well that ends well. 



Canusa57 said:


> [B][I]EleGirl[/I][/B]_*: I want to thank you for your advice. I was not aware that I could go for counseling myself. I will see a doctor/counsellor and seek treatment. I might be depressed as you say. I must say that in most situations I have been very strong, and may be should do the same here too.*_



Most people go through depression when things are not going well in their lives. Sadly depression makes it hard to clearly address the issues and fix them. If you fix your depression, the solution will be much easier to figure out and to follow through on. (Assuming you are depressed. I'm not diagnosing you here. Just replying to what I think might be part of the problem you are having.)

_*


Canusa57 said:



I am sorry if I sounded like someone that does not take responsibility - that I am blaming the others involved. In all situations (maybe this is an exception), I stand by my actions and inactions - I do not blame others for things that happened to me. Rightfully said, there might have been a better way to deal with it. Probably I was too much consumed by the situation, felt ashamed or guilty of inaction - which is why my post might come as one where I have shifted the blame.

Click to expand...

*_Often a person can very responsible in their professional life but their personal life gets the better of them. Don't beat up on yourself about that. There are ways to fix this.

*


Canusa57 said:



To everyone else that has provided inputs, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. You could have chosen to just ignore this as "another rant:". That you chose to respond is something I do not take lightly.

Click to expand...

*We have a lot of good people here.


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

*EleGirl:*
Most people go through depression when things are not going well in their lives. Sadly depression makes it hard to clearly address the issues and fix them. If you fix your depression, the solution will be much easier to figure out and to follow through on. (Assuming you are depressed. I'm not diagnosing you here. Just replying to what I think might be part of the problem you are having.)
*Thank you so much for that thoughtful advice. I have never been to mental health specialist or counsellor. 
Really I do not know the difference between the two.Are they different as far as "roles" go?
In medicine, we have different branches like cardiology, dermatology etc. Is there a particular "kind" of psychiatrist I should see?*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57 said:


> *Thank you so much for that thoughtful advice. I have never been to mental health specialist or counsellor.
> Really I do not know the difference between the two. Are they different as far as "roles" go?
> In medicine, we have different branches like cardiology, dermatology etc. Is there a particular "kind" of psychiatrist I should see?*


I found some sites that address your question about what type of doctor/professional to see for depression ...









Should You See a Doctor, Psychiatrist, or Therapist for Depression?


If you think you have clinical depression and want to find out who prescribes antidepressants, learn if a doctor or psychiatrist is right for you.




www.verywellmind.com













Choosing Depression Doctors, Therapists, and Psychiatrists


To get better, you need expert help. WebMD helps you prepare for your first visit to a doctor or therapist.




www.webmd.com













Doctors Who Specialize in Depression


Learn about the different kinds of health professionals who treat depression to ensure you're finding the best help for you.




www.healthline.com


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## Canusa57 (Apr 8, 2020)

I am sure some of you might have found my post very confusing: I started a thread - It's like a college essay - maybe more, so please forgive me if that is wordy. So this is what happened... I thought I was editing the thread to add information, and accidentally deleted most of it. I re-wrote the whole thing because I had not "cut n past (ed)" the matter elsewhere.

This is not a thread in the traditional sense, so sorry about that. That said, let me thank all those who tried to add their perspectives to my situation. I will try to answer the questions that some posed before, to give some context, after which you get a chance to read my long and winding story:


*Openminded*

You said: My advise is that you accept it or you move on. It’s not possible to change either your MIL or your wife. They’re going to do what they want so you’ll have to do what you want — whatever that might be.
My response: I am looking to see if that will work in my current situation
*EleGirl:
Thank you so much for the books you mentioned and advice you offered.
You asked: *Do you talk to your wife a lot either on the phone or on something like Skype when she's in India?
My response: I talked every day on the phone until about 4 days back. I stopped talking to her after a phone call turned out to be a fight. My daughter yelled at me over the phone for “treating her (mom) that way. I don’t feel like talking to either of them I just know I am very upset.

*frusdil*
I haven’t arrived at a decision yet. I Know that while divorce may be an easy way out, that’s not always a solution.
I am torn between divorce and finding another solution. I don’t know who to pin the responsibility wit, for the situation .. precisely why I posted on this forum to get different perspectives.

Its hard to advise you when you've deleted most of your original post.
Thank you Frusdil and others here:
Here’s the story:

There has to be a context to every situation. Some of them are cultural, age, etc. So I am a South Asian from India - Highly educated, widely travelled, work in IT (like most brown dues from India do). I also happen to be married for 25 years, and have a daughter that is 22 years old. Typical Story from South Asia - but has a twist. This is a toxic marriage, and if you ask me why I lived through this for so long, I was dumb, numb and crazy.

Short courtship and marriage - a good wife and a JEALOUS, INSECURE, MANIPULATIVE *widowed "Mother in law" (MIL)*that is root cause of the break up, waiting to happen..

So what happened? Everything was hunky dory till we were in India. I decide to move to the west in 2000 and the troubles begin.

Step 1: I go by myself to "Settle down" in the new country. The wife stays with her mom for over a year. The "indoctrination", the "emotional blackmail" begins. She keeps telling my wife how she feels betrayed, let down, lonely because she (my wife) will join me in abroad.

Step 2: The wife gets influenced by her mom, starts making long yearly trips to India, We end up raking thousands of dollars in credit card debt. The wife takes my daughter out of school for months on end to join her in her trips to India.

*Consequences:* The relationship is falling apart, the wife keeps getting guilt tripped and we are sinking in debt. Meanwhile the wife keeps threatening me because *"I Separated her from her family" (Read Mom)*, because the wife's siblings are themselves married and live by themselves. While all this happening, the MIL is living by herself. We have frequent fights and I am guilt tripped to believing that I am a "BAD PERSON" because I separated daughter from Mom. Years go by and the relationship is now in tatters - *Thank you Mother in law!. Your manipulation has worked... Congrats!

What now? (*Fast forward 25 + years) I feel worthless, down, frustrated, depressed and lose all self esteem. The daughter who is now 22 joins her mom in isolating me while ruining me financially (She goes to an out of state school, runs thousands of dollars in Uber/flight expenses, and I end up discharging her debt. Why did I do that? I am painted in a corner by the Mom-Daughter duo, and I am a coward and wimp. The daughter becomes a "social media influencer" gets a high paying job and thumbs her nose at Dad. She is ungrateful, and rude, to say the least.

*Then what? I am very lost, confused, distressed and depressed. Meanwhile I am also busy with work. When I am not at work, I think of taking my own life. I think that will put en end to misery. I will no longer feel the anguish, I will no longer feel worthless, and they (my wife and daughter) will cry some, and go on with their lives. The wife will go to live with her mom, the daughter will cary on with her job.

So why won't I do it? * I am a coward, I don't have the courage to do that. There are myriads of questions that criss cross my mind All those "WHAT IF" questions. What if I don't succeed in my suicide attempt? What if I am saved and am a nervous wreck? What if I become a "vegetable". What if I survive and then have pain for the rest of my life? . Then someone tells me that if I killed myself, I would be reborn to re-live the rest of my natural life (Does that make sense? I don't know. I am also asking myself how I'lll hurt my immediate family, my mom, and my siblings. OK, the wife and daughter won't miss me, but won't I punish others - my siblings, my dear friends with what I did? *I don't know, and so I am still alive!

Plan B: My plan B is to physically separate from the wife. At some time we can go in for a divorce. During one of the fights we had recently I told her that this wasn't working. She didn't say anything except "It's OK" . I don't know what this means, but for my sanity, for my self respect and for me to earn towards my retirement, I need to do this. This is not to punish the wife or daughter. This is after all these years, ABOUT ME.

The wife can live with her mom, and the daughter can get on with her life.

I have many questions :

1) Am I doing something wrong? My wife is educated, but has never led her own life, doing stuff for herself - for the last 25 + years.

2) Despite all that she had done with her frequent absences, she's a good person in many ways. I still love her (I am angry at myself for being a wimp). Is this a contradiction of sorts? Should I not be hating her for ruining my life? I can't seem to do that. 

3) My question is how do I face the "separation"? Is there a silver bullet to ease the pain (does that line even make sense?) or is there a set of rules I can follow to distract myself from the pain?

Please help with your views and advice...... and Yes, I might have more questions. Thanks for your patience and understanding!!*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Canusa57, 

Your two threads are now merged.


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