# My husband is a KISA and I can't deal



## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

So I've lurked here for awhile and am at the point now where I am going so crazy that I feel the need to post, too. I'm not sure if I'm asking for advice or simply just need a place to vent and get all my thoughts and issues out, but here goes.

My husband and I have been married 2 years, together 6. Prior to meeting me, he and this girl (let's call her "K"), were on the brink of getting together - except she was dating one of his friends and never broke it off with him to get with my husband. Once I came into the picture, she threw a fit and began to connect with him again, IMing him all the time. Now, she didn't try to steal him away so to speak, but would always go to him with her problems, to complain about her bf, to feel better. He wouldn't complain to her, but would instead be her emotional support. I managed to get through to him eventually that he could not continue to act as her boyfriend if he was mine and they stopped talking as frequently and, eventually, stopped talking at all.

Fast forward to last month, when my husband, together with one of his old friends, texted K to check on her ex-boyfriend, his old friend. Turns out they had broken up awhile ago and she had dated another guy long term and just broken up with him. Well, of course, that's a tragedy and my husband falls right back into the role of emotional support for her. Everything is a problem for her - she texts him because she's upset that there's a bad storm, or she failed a test (she's getting her master's), or she's still sad about her boyfriend dumping her and she's all alone. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself - see, my husband didn't actually tell me he had reconnected with her - I saw a message from her on our iPad and asked him when he had talked to her. Then he admitted that he had gotten in touch and asked if it was okay to talk to her - I said yes, as long as it was not a repeat of the past - just a "hey, how's it going" every once in awhile. Well, as I mentioned, every day is the end of the world for this girl so she texts him everyday and he responds. I tell him that's not okay, and I get ridiculed by both of them for not understanding her problems and that they're just friends and she just needs him as a friend, she'd never come between us. Finally, I convince him that it's not healthy for her or us to be talking every day and he agrees to not talk to her as much and tells her so. That lasts one day - she texts him the next day to say "I can't do this, you're the only one who understands me" and he responds "I know it's hard, but I have to do what's best for my wife, right or wrong. I want to talk to you (I really like to) and just give it time, the more I talk to my wife, the more I can convince her and the more we can talk." So now I'm just furious because I feel as they think I'm just in the way of their relationship - that I'm unreasonably keeping them apart. My husband refuses to stop talking to her - saying that he feels like he has to help her (that he wants to help her), he's worried she'll kill herself, etc.

I've told him that I want to be the priority - that I don't mind if he has her as a friend but this isn't a friendship, at least it doesn't feel like it to me. Am I crazy or is this girl stepping over appropriate boundaries?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Put his ass in check, FAST. This is an emotional affair in the making.

He doesn't talk to her AT ALL, screw that. If she needs emotional support she should find herself a lasting relationship instead of flitting around from boyfriend to boyfriend.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

If you have told him that his friendship with this woman is beginning to cross the boundaries you have set in place as acceptable and he is ignoring them, then there is a lacking in respect for you as his spouse.

Might be a good idea to get him cornered and box his lug holes a little to remind him of his place in your marriage.

If left unattended it will blossom further you realize that don't you?

Act now and reaffirm boundaries with him with regards inappropriate contact from members of the opposite sex.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

I've told him that I don't want him talking to her but I've tried to compromise because he tells me how much it means to him to be able to help people (not just girls). After that last text, though, I told him I just can't handle it at all - if she can't go one day without him, it's out of control and they shouldn't be talking - she should be getting a therapist.

Thing is, he doesn't think he's overstepping boundaries - he thinks that I'm overly jealous - that I don't allow him to have female friends, that I'm controlling him by saying how often he can talk to her, and that I should trust him because he wouldn't cheat on me (doesn't have a history of it). So every time I bring this up, I'm just showing that I don't trust him and I'm being ridiculous and that he's trying to compromise by telling her he can't talk to her every day.

So the underlying problem here is we don't agree on what is appropriate/inappropriate for friends. For me, it crossed the line when she said her happiness depends on being able to talk to him every day and he validated her feelings by saying he wants to talk to her too.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You are not crazy, and you should make him understand in no uncertain terms that you aren't going to share your husband. He has a choice to make, you or her, period. She doesn't respect you in the least, and she is influencing him. 

If I were in your place, if your husband chooses you, as he likely will, get a couple copies of Not Just Friends and read it together. If he gets it, then good. If he resists the wisdom, I'd spyware his **** to keep him honest, and there'd be a short path to the curb if he wants to test your boundaries.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

He pledged his loyalty and energy to you, not her. You aren't controlling him, he is free to choose her, but there will be consequences in that you get to choose what to accept from him or not.

Again, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass. Order it online, with the fastest shipping.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> So the underlying problem here is we don't agree on what is appropriate/inappropriate for friends. For me, it crossed the line when she said her happiness depends on being able to talk to him every day and he validated her feelings by saying he wants to talk to her too.


Oh dear, he is hooked, sounds like you need to get into MC seriously quick before he thinks he needs her body as well as her attention.

If he seriously feels he needs to put her "needy ways" before the marriage then he is already way over the mark, and she does not need to talk to him every day, it is her way of trying to ruin your marriage to make herself feel better that she is single and only choosing loosers as BFs, she is seeing the unity of you and your husband as her goal and now she is needling her way into getting what she wants, him, but that would only be until the next KISA shows up to save her from the dead end relationship she finds herself in after ruining your marriage and stealing your husband.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> I've told him that I don't want him talking to her but I've tried to compromise because he tells me how much it means to him to be able to help people (not just girls). After that last text, though, I told him I just can't handle it at all - if she can't go one day without him, it's out of control and they shouldn't be talking - she should be getting a therapist.
> 
> Thing is, he doesn't think he's overstepping boundaries - he thinks that I'm overly jealous - that I don't allow him to have female friends, that I'm controlling him by saying how often he can talk to her, and that I should trust him because he wouldn't cheat on me (doesn't have a history of it). So every time I bring this up, I'm just showing that I don't trust him and I'm being ridiculous and that he's trying to compromise by telling her he can't talk to her every day.
> 
> So the underlying problem here is we don't agree on what is appropriate/inappropriate for friends. For me, it crossed the line when she said her happiness depends on being able to talk to him every day and he validated her feelings by saying he wants to talk to her too.


You have to reaffirm boundaries. 

Also this isn't something with any wiggle room. Talking to another female day in day out? Not good. 

And this isn't about trust. 

Its nice to think that being married means all other men/women don't exist, but thats just not true. It doesn't matter who the hell you are, be in enough contact with someone you have good chemistry with and feelings will emerge. Since shes his ex, they definitely have chemistry.

That is where boundaries come in. Boundaries are what prevent people in relationships from getting feelings about other people. 

Boundaries are make us say no when a coworker askes us out for a drink after work. 

His boundaries are shot. 

I don't think you understand the seriousness of this. While this hasn't quite gotten to the "Either her or me" since theres been no infidelity, you're not far off from that. 

Shut this down, whichever way you can. It honestly doesn't matter what he thinks as he may be in fog. 

When someone is in fog, clouds are green, and talking to another woman everyday is just chatting. if hes fogged up hes in no state of mind to realize just what it is hes doing. 

Thats why the responsibility of ensuring that this shoulder to whine on nonsense gets shut down down falls to you.

And you may have to be more direct than just trying to convince him to do it himself.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

We're in counseling now and I've been told to not try to "mommy" him/control him - that he shouldn't have to report to me who he's talking to and when every day. The counselor also told him that he should be honest with me about his relationship with this girl, though, but hasn't told him to cut it off. Then again, this whole "I can't live without texting you everyday" conversation just occurred so we haven't brought it up yet.

I've read Just Not Friends and even highlighted and sent some excerpts to him to read (since he refuses to read the book). Thing is, he refuses to listen to books, to me, to his mom even, about this issue. He says he doesn't care what all of this says - that he's just being a friend and not doing anything inappropriate. His argument is that he's not taking away from me - he still does everything for me and behaves the same toward me. I tell him that doesn't matter because guys who have physical affairs can treat their wives really well too - it doesn't matter how well he treats me while he's emotionally supporting another woman, too. However, he can't seem to understand that. 

I've tried to explain about boundaries - that it's not that I don't trust him (and I do have trust issues due to a cheating dad) but that a trustworthy person doesn't put themselves in those situations in the first place!

I've even talked to this girl and she just repeats that she wants to be friends, doesn't want to come between us, just needs him as a friend while she goes through this hard time. They both make it out like I'm the bad guy in this whole thing because I'm trying to keep our marriage between the two of us.

What do I do since he refuses to listen?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> We're in counseling now and I've been told to not try to "mommy" him/control him - that he shouldn't have to report to me who he's talking to and when every day. The counselor also told him that he should be honest with me about his relationship with this girl, though, but hasn't told him to cut it off. Then again, this whole "I can't live without texting you everyday" conversation just occurred so we haven't brought it up yet.
> 
> I've read Just Not Friends and even highlighted and sent some excerpts to him to read (since he refuses to read the book). Thing is, he refuses to listen to books, to me, to his mom even, about this issue. He says he doesn't care what all of this says - that he's just being a friend and not doing anything inappropriate. His argument is that he's not taking away from me - he still does everything for me and behaves the same toward me. I tell him that doesn't matter because guys who have physical affairs can treat their wives really well too - it doesn't matter how well he treats me while he's emotionally supporting another woman, too. However, he can't seem to understand that.
> 
> ...


If hes not listening _at all_ then its ultimatum time I'm afraid. You can't just sit back and let this continue to grow. Affairs are like weeds. If you don't root them out they'll fill up the whole yard in no time flat. 

The fact that hes refusing so much is evidence of how deep he is. 

Also just because she says she wants to be friends is meaningless.

The book you read 'Not Just friends' is called that for a reason. 

Husbands and wives will swear up and down and until they're blue in the face that someone is 'just a friend.' 

Then they'll be screwing each other's brains out within the month.

Maybe not the divorce trigger, but sleeping in the marital bed/living in the house.

I hope entropy sees this. He knows how dangerous and foggy EAs are first hand so he could fill in a better picture of them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I am presuming you are in Texas? If so, have him send her this link
Texas Suicide & Crisis Hotlines - When You Feel You Can't Go On... Call a Suicide Hotline. / SuicideHotlines.com - Direction for immediate crisis intervention for the gravely suicidal & treatment for major clinical suicidal depression.

They'll help her without getting emotionally attached.

Time he sold his armour to the scrap dealer.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

My concern with the ultimatum (and why I feel like this is a lose-lose situation for me) is that he'll "choose" me, but resent me for not letting him have his friend. Since he views nothing wrong with the situation, I'll forever be blamed for them not being friends. Or, he'll say he'll stop the friendship and just hide it - they iMessage so he could just delete em and I'd never know since they don't post on the phone bill. On the other hand, he doesn't choose me and I'm out a husband...

Thanks MattMatt for the link - we're in TX, but she's in Florida - thankfully, those 2000 miles keep him from actually going over to her (although he did mention he wouldn't think it'd be a problem to fly back to visit her to help her through these hard times.... I actually laughed out loud at that one til I realized he was serious).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband is a KISA and that's how his affair began. Beware.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> My concern with the ultimatum (and why I feel like this is a lose-lose situation for me) is that he'll "choose" me, but resent me for not letting him have his friend. Since he views nothing wrong with the situation, I'll forever be blamed for them not being friends. Or, he'll say he'll stop the friendship and just hide it - they iMessage so he could just delete em and I'd never know since they don't post on the phone bill. On the other hand, he doesn't choose me and I'm out a husband...
> 
> Thanks MattMatt for the link - we're in TX, but she's in Florida - thankfully, those 2000 miles keep him from actually going over to her (although he did mention he wouldn't think it'd be a problem to fly back to visit her to help her through these hard times.... I actually laughed out loud at that one til I realized he was serious).


Here's their Florida link Florida Suicide & Crisis Hotlines - When You Feel You Can't Go On... Call a Suicide Hotline. / SuicideHotlines.com - Direction for immediate crisis intervention for the gravely suicidal & treatment for major clinical suicidal depression.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Here's their Florida link Florida Suicide & Crisis Hotlines - When You Feel You Can't Go On... Call a Suicide Hotline. / SuicideHotlines.com - Direction for immediate crisis intervention for the gravely suicidal & treatment for major clinical suicidal depression.


Thanks - might just send this directly to her.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You don't have to give him an ultimatum. Tell him:

- He is crossing well-known boundaries that lead to broken marriages.

- He is hurting you by doing this.

- You know that he will not willingly stop.

So, he can have her.

Tell him that you have no intention of being married to someone who wants a girlfriend. Tell him she's all his. Simply stand up for your dignity. He knows he's hurting you and that seems to be A-OK with him, so let him have her.

Show him you have the confidence to know your worth.

They say you have to be willing to lose it to save it. Don't beg him to pick you.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Time for another counselor I don't see why she's or he is not seeing this and siding with you. Its a but disturbing that he thinks she will kill herself if he stops texting her. That's a red flag right there hat the line is crossed. No friends text every day, I'm sorry but he is married. He made promises to you. 

I would stand firm but now add consequences to his behavior. I know it's scary but you need to be in a pick a woman attitude as you should not be "sharing" your spouse. Be clear and firm me or her attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you for the "ultimatum" suggestions. I know that this is what I need to do - it's just hard to follow through with, especially since we're pretty much out here on our own (no family out here). If only I had taken the initiative to go back home for the summer!

I certainly do feel that a line has been crossed - her behavior is obsessive and if he truly does want to help her, he'd see that he's just encouraging her and making her worse (which I've said).


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> You don't have to give him an ultimatum. Tell him:
> 
> - He is crossing well-known boundaries that lead to broken marriages.
> 
> ...


This can work.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

you don't have to do the ultimatum thing, it can shock things into reality in a real fast fashion but in a sense you are right in the fact that you say he may hold resentment towards you and that could lead to further problems down the line, think EA going PA just with someone equally needy that latches onto him.

Best to have a sound discussion with him about boundaries and state the above post as regards having a girlfriend, and stand up for yourself and know that by risking a little now means you win either way, you win because if he does try to take it under ground and you find it then he is screwed and you are already on his trail so should not be hard to keep upto speed and second win could be if he actually were to realize how damaging this situation is to his marriage, yes he has to be open to listening to you but if he sides with the fluzey then you know where you stand and can then search for an amicable end rather than be betrayed further by the man that took vows to you on your wedding day.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Tell him he is not a damn therapist, he is your damn HUSBAND! Show him the definition of borderline and histrionic personality disorders from psychcentral.com. Tell him you will call in to the local mobile crisis unit of the city you live in and they will drive to her home and baker act her ass if he does not stop this crap stat. You are his wife and intervening is your responsibility. He needs to change his number or file a divorce but no more bs right there infront of your face with a bat s**t crazy bs artist. Your issues with their crap is quite appropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Your husband should stop talking to that woman, Gosh ! you are so nice and strong , I cannot believe you allow him to txt that woman every day. It is not your fault if she is alone, or feel alone. My my my! Why do they think that it is right what they are doing? why does she steal you husband, bse I am calling it to steal bse he is your husband and she is the ex. It is very disgusting, be careful that woman knows what she is doing she wants him back passively. “ he is the only person who can understand him” !! Gee, maybe this is why she cannot have a boyfriend or she is just jealous of you two, and she is doing what is possible to ruin your marriage. Tell your H and that woman to stop talking to each other. It has to stop!!


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> His argument is that he's not taking away from me


Well that argument doesn't hold any water, because all the time he spends talking to and texting her takes away from you and your marriage.

Does he have any idea the extent of his communication? How many minutes he spends talking, how many texts he exchanges. Get your hands on the phone bill and show him.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you for the suggestions - He's out of town til Sunday so our talk will have to wait til then. Meanwhile he's upset with me because I'm not chatting with him like everything's okay. I'm not very good at faking happiness.

Unfortunately, all his texting is done through iMessages, which doesn't show up on the phone bill. So not only do I not know how much he's messaging, I can't use it to shock him either into realizing how much he's talking.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Thank you for the suggestions - He's out of town til Sunday so our talk will have to wait til then. Meanwhile he's upset with me because I'm not chatting with him like everything's okay. I'm not very good at faking happiness.
> 
> Unfortunately, all his texting is done through iMessages, which doesn't show up on the phone bill. So not only do I not know how much he's messaging, I can't use it to shock him either into realizing how much he's talking.


That's actually good, don't fake that things are ok, because they are not. They tried to manipulate you to think you're the crazy one. 

Stay strong, this will be over soon if you do the right things like stand your ground.
I know some are against an ultimatum and it's your choice. It can either resove the issue right at the moment, or if he's more into her it can make the bomb explode. You have time to think, and read up on advice. 
There are so many examples on this site, you can learn from others. Feel free to reach out to others there are many veterans that can help you.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

EAs are a thicker fog than PAs and EA/PAs are the thickest. You cannot reason with someone who is in a fog! It sounds like you have been more than patient and reasonable. You need to expose her on cheaterville & she's a homewrecker. That will kill everything instantly! Read also the newbie thread here by AlmostRecovered & the 180.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Well I just flipped out on text on both of them. Saw on the phone bill they were texting as I was talking to him about this whole thing. So I told him she wants him, he wants her - they can have each other but he can't have me then. Told her that I tried to compromise but she has no respect for us. Course I get no response - there goes my sleep for the night, too.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Texas28 said:


> We're in counseling now and I've been told to not try to "mommy" him/control him - that he shouldn't have to report to me who he's talking to and when every day. The counselor also told him that he should be honest with me about his relationship with this girl, though, but hasn't told him to cut it off. Then again, this whole "I can't live without texting you everyday" conversation just occurred so we haven't brought it up yet.


If it was the counselor who indicated you should not "mommy" him or control him and that he shouldn't have to report to you...I would agree. He is a grown man, and adults are personally responsible for their choices--both the benefits and the consequences. If I tried to decide for you what you could do or who you could talk with...you'd be pi$$ed at me! But let's talk about that more in a minute...



> I've tried to explain about boundaries - that it's not that I don't trust him (and I do have trust issues due to a cheating dad) but that a trustworthy person doesn't put themselves in those situations in the first place!
> 
> I've even talked to this girl and she just repeats that she wants to be friends, doesn't want to come between us, just needs him as a friend while she goes through this hard time. They both make it out like I'm the bad guy in this whole thing because I'm trying to keep our marriage between the two of us.
> 
> *What do I do since he refuses to listen?*


I believe I can actually help you with this. It is a slight difference but I believe your definition of a "boundary" is actually slightly askew. 

Based on how you write, it sounds like your idea of a boundary is "Here is the limit of what you can and can not do. I am going to decide that limit for you, and you have to do what I decide for you." For example, you have set the limit for your husband that he can not talk to this girl. You decided for him, and he has to do what you have decided. In real life this is YOU controlling HIM. 

However, in real life a boundary is you putting a limit around yourself. See, Texas28, you can not control anyone other than yourself. You can not tell people what to do...you can not "make" them do what you want...you can not make choices for your husband and then force him to obey. You can do all of that for YOURSELF. 

So rather than envisioning a fence you put around him and he has to stay within the fence you choose...envision putting a fence around YOU. You are so special and so wonderful that you get to choose what you do and do not allow into your fence. You get to choose WHO you do and do not want to allow into your fence too. 

And here's the important part: your husband is completely free to make mistakes, make horrible choices, and do the absolutely wrong thing! He is an ADULT and it may not be smart for him to choose that, but he can. What makes him an adult and free is that if he chooses the wise thing, he gets the benefit of being with you and the cost is pretty low: he has to give up this girl to whom he owes nothing. On the other hand, if he choose the unwise thing, he gets the benefit of ??? (ummm...what an ego stroke for helping this girl) and the cost is extremely high: he does not get to be part of your life. 

So a boundary is not about him at all! It's about YOU. You don't tell him: "Hey you can't do THIS." Instead, you tell him about you: "So I've thought about it, and my boundary is that I want a partner in my life who will honor his promises. When we married you promised me to forsake all others for me. That means you owe me 100% of your affection and loyalty, and right now you are giving at least a portion of your loyalty to <her>. So I have decided that is not okay with me. My boundary is not to accept crumbs. When you have decided to honor your promises and give me what is actually owed, I'll consider it, but until then just giving me crumbs is unacceptable, so I've decided I will be doing XYZ." 

Does this make sense? You don't tell him what to do, you make decisions about YOU. Let him decide what he is going to do.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I hope that got HIS attention. I suggest you don't contact her again as it just gives her the excuse to go running to your husband.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> If it was the counselor who indicated you should not "mommy" him or control him and that he shouldn't have to report to you...I would agree. He is a grown man, and adults are personally responsible for their choices--both the benefits and the consequences. If I tried to decide for you what you could do or who you could talk with...you'd be pi$$ed at me! But let's talk about that more in a minute...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you - it does make sense and I've tried that but haven't stuck with it. I tend to say "I won't accept it and I'm going to go stay here for awhile" but then I never follow through. That just negates anything I say to him bc he knows there aren't any consequences (other than me being moody). Thank you though, for making it clear what I need to do.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Why don't you be that shoulder to cry on? Call her and offer to her that service. IF she complains that you are calling her and she doesn't want it, tell her that because you two are married, anyone who is a friend of his is a friend of yours. 

And if you're ready to go the distance don't stop calling her and leaving friendly voicemails until the divorce papers are filed.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Maybe you need to make some (male) friends of your own and start chatting them. Then he will know how it feels for you.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

I offered to be her friend - I offered back when this whole thing initially started 5 years ago and she didn't want anything to do with it. Strange since the issues of struggling with depression, anxiety, etc. are all problems that I have struggled with my whole life, too, so I'd be able to understand more than my husband. But she doesn't want a friend - she wants a guy to boost her ego and make her feel good about herself. Nothing wrong with that if he's single and available to do so. My husband is not single but is making himself available for it. And I've reached out to my guy friends - thing is, they don't want to talk every day because they're normal! So hubby isn't worried since it's not working. You would think though, the fact that I feel like reaching out would be a wake up call that there's something wrong. I know, too, that that's not the right approach - it's not fair to the guys and I don't enjoy feeling manipulative. I want what I want - for my husband to make me a priority and make what I want and feel matter more than what some other person outside of our marriage wants and feels. That might be selfish but that's why you get married - because you do value that person above all others. Otherwise, you might as well just date/hang out.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> I want what I want - for my husband to make me a priority and make what I want and feel matter more than what some other person outside of our marriage wants and feels. * That might be selfish*...


It's not. It's part and parcel of being married.



> but that's why you get married - because you do value that person above all others.


Agreed. And part of that value is valuing your spouses' opinions - you're a partnership after all. 

My concern at the moment for you both is that you're in a game of brinkmanship. You've upped the ante and he probably feels this is another way that you are being 'controlling'. He needs to feel that he can comes back to you because he chooses to. You need to give him an 'honourable out'.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> It's not. It's part and parcel of being married.
> 
> Agreed. And part of that value is valuing your spouses' opinions - you're a partnership after all.
> 
> My concern at the moment for you both is that you're in a game of brinkmanship. You've upped the ante and he probably feels this is another way that you are being 'controlling'. He needs to feel that he can comes back to you because he chooses to. You need to give him an 'honourable out'.


What do you mean by an honorable out?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> I offered to be her friend - I offered back when this whole thing initially started 5 years ago and she didn't want anything to do with it. Strange since the issues of struggling with depression, anxiety, etc. are all problems that I have struggled with my whole life, too, so I'd be able to understand more than my husband. But she doesn't want a friend - she wants a guy to boost her ego and make her feel good about herself. Nothing wrong with that if he's single and available to do so. My husband is not single but is making himself available for it. And I've reached out to my guy friends - thing is, they don't want to talk every day because they're normal! So hubby isn't worried since it's not working. You would think though, the fact that I feel like reaching out would be a wake up call that there's something wrong. I know, too, that that's not the right approach - it's not fair to the guys and I don't enjoy feeling manipulative. I want what I want - for my husband to make me a priority and make what I want and feel matter more than what some other person outside of our marriage wants and feels. That might be selfish but that's why you get married - because you do value that person above all others. Otherwise, you might as well just date/hang out.


Sounds like you have a bit of a "white knight" kinda guy....you have every right to set the boudaries your setting. Your hubby may not be trying to build an EA with her but he is "isolating" and "excluding" you from the relationshiip and that is driving a wedge between you. I would let him know that. Tell him secrecey has no place in a marriage unless your doing something youe not supposed to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> What do you mean by an honorable out?


Well, having read Affaircare's post I thought she had a better understanding of your husband's mentality than you or I do. 

Rather than you saying "This is my boundary, I expect you to adhere to it", which he considers controlling, try a different tack.

He's a KISA. Let him put on his armour to come to your 'rescue'. 

You come across as strong in your posts, perhaps now is a time to show your vulnerability? Let him know how upset you feel. How upsetting its was to discover that he didn't give you his full attention when he was texting her whilst talking to you (Use different words). Let him know your distress that you feel your marriage is slipping away... you're all alone, etc, etc

I'd go as far as to suggest you have a mini-meltdown. She is a threat to your marriage. I don't consider this manipulation if this is how you genuinely feel, but have kept locked away to 'be strong'. You know he responds to this kind of behaviour. Perhaps give him another damsel in distress to worry about? He comes riding to the rescue - his choice - his honourable out.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

So I did get a response from "K" and we had a long talk. I started off mean and 'crazy': "u said u didn't want to cause problems in our marriage, but u did" type of thing. As the convo went on tho, I became more logical and less emotionally out of control. However, she just kept repeating "we're just friends" "if you don't want us to talk for a period of time, we won't but I don't see how that'll fix anything." In my head, I wanted to say "you need psychiatric help if your happiness depends on talking to my husband every day" but I didn't cause lord knows that wouldn't have gone over well. Eventually, she asked what I wanted them to do and I said that was for my husband to decide and he and I would discuss the effects of that decision. Now I just feel horrible all over again - I know I shouldn't have said anything to her and I question whether or not I'm overreacting again.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't think you over reacted you were asking him to stop texting her and as you were pouring your feelings out to him he was texting with her. I interpret that as an I don't care attitude. 
I don't think you are being controling on the contrary she's still not backing off and saying if she leaves for sometime it's not going to fix anything.

I see big denial on her part, people can have friends in a marriage but if one of the spouses feels uncomfortable even if there is nothing, I would hope the fact that the spouse is unhappy that's a reason to end the friendship. But this situation goes further its every day contact against your wishes. 

I'm sure he would not be as understandable if you had a man that clingy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> However, she just kept repeating "we're just friends"


It is the mantra of everybody before and during an affair. Ignore it. 



> "if you don't want us to talk for a period of time, we won't but I don't see how that'll fix anything."


Grasp this offer with both hands. As someone who appears unable/unwilling to fix her own problems I wouldn't give her any input on how to fix yours. 



> Now I just feel horrible all over again - I know I shouldn't have said anything to her and I question whether or not I'm overreacting again.


You are not overreacting, she's manipulating you. She was manipulating when she threatened to kill herself rolleyes: Oh the drama!). She's doing it now.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Never deal with OW. She has nothing to do with you. This situation is ALL on your husband.

QUIT BEING NICE AND SHOW HIM THE DOOR.

Guys just love that knight in shining armour sh*t. You need to stop discussing this stuff and be done with the bullsh*t.

Your husband needs to grow up. 

Did I mention, QUIT BEING NICE?


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Rugs said:


> Never deal with OW. She has nothing to do with you. This situation is ALL on your husband.
> 
> QUIT BEING NICE AND SHOW HIM THE DOOR.
> 
> ...


:iagree: 

Don't talk to her, it's your H you should be talking too. 

I let a situation like this go with my first H many years ago, in very similar circumstances to yours. I approached the other girl and tried to get her to see from my POV, but they both ignored me. 

Consequently I suffered greatly for years afterwards as a result of my inaction.

It's time to put on your big girl panties and tell him that you will not stay in a marriage where your partner is continuing to give emotional energy to another woman despite how much it hurts you. Period! That is energy he is depriving your relationship of.

He will either agree or not agree. Don't allow him to gaslight you about the reasons why it's okay. "She's just a friend" blah blah and all that waffling rubbish. It's just not acceptable.

If he agrees then he should cease immediately all contact with her and I also would be taking steps to ensure that he was complying with that.

If he doesn't agree then it may be time to seriously consider why you want to stay in a relationship with a man who puts another woman's emotional safety and well-being ahead of your own.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think anything useful comes from dealing with the OW. I tried that twice -- once from the first affair my ex-husband had with the OW and one from the second affair he had with her. Didn't work either time but I was more naive then than I am now. 

The commitment I had was with him and not with her so my communication should have been solely with him and not her. I learned that a little late. 

It's up to your husband to stop it and make sure it remains stopped. If he can't, you have your answer and you have a decision to make.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> So I did get a response from "K" and we had a long talk. I started off mean and 'crazy': "u said u didn't want to cause problems in our marriage, but u did" type of thing. As the convo went on tho, I became more logical and less emotionally out of control. However, she just kept repeating "we're just friends" "if you don't want us to talk for a period of time, we won't but I don't see how that'll fix anything." In my head, I wanted to say "you need psychiatric help if your happiness depends on talking to my husband every day" but I didn't cause lord knows that wouldn't have gone over well. Eventually, she asked what I wanted them to do and I said that was for my husband to decide and he and I would discuss the effects of that decision. Now I just feel horrible all over again - I know I shouldn't have said anything to her and I question whether or not I'm overreacting again.


Your not overreacting...be very careful with females that like to borrow your husbands for emotional support! Not a good thing!!! She needs to go find a gf or other single msle friend not a married man for her confidant! This women needs to be careful she is going to get a reputation for this if she isn't careful....married women don't like women who target their hisbands. You dhould mention that to hubby. His relationship is really detrimenta l to her in the long run....guys are going to see her as a women who goes after married men as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is a link to the 180. It doesn't work if you are not careful in understanding it and following it carefully. For example, many think you are to be mean and curt with the spouse. You will note that it says always be cheerful. The point is to let the wayward spouse know in his heart that you can and are moving on without him.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180

The next time either of them say its just friends or any other excuse, ask them why it has destroyed your marriage. 

12 Warning Signs That It’s Emotional Infidelity – And Not ‘Just Friendship’ | Neuroscience and Relationships

This is another link you can read and send t your husband. If it were me I would not respond to him at all while he was out of town. In other words let him worry about you. I would even consider leaving and going back home where your parents are.

Do you have kids, job?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

You are being gaslit to high hell. They WANT you to think you're overreacting and crazy. You are not. 

She doesn't need psychiatric help if she needs to talk to another woman's husband everyday. What she needs to do is back the f*** up cause thats clearly inappropriate. 

Their dual denial worries me. This thing is only going to keep progressing.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Well all last night when I was talking to K, I was sending him messages too, which he never responded to. Clear message there. Finally got a hold of him this morning (turns out he's coming back today) and told him that for me to be happy in this marriage, I need to be the priority and I need for my wants/desires to come above K's and if that couldn't be the case, then I needed to do what's best for me. His response? "Good." So there we go folks - guess I'll be starting my apartment search today.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

No, you need to start your lawyer search today and protect your money.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28, as hard as it is right now, you MUST stay the course and hold to what you threatened.

Your husband needs to be needed. He likes presenting himself without flaws. With this girl, and others, he gets to present an ideal version of himself, one that doesn't have bad breath in the morning, one that doesn't lose his cool, someone who is always emotionally stable and just a wealth of knowledge and insight. He's helpful, always there; the perfect shoulder to cry on. Noble him.

The true man is far from that, and you accepted him for everything he is. But you know him at his best AND his worst, and as happens in every relationship that lasts longer than the infatuation phase, his "shine" is off for you. He's imperfect. Your H lives to look shiny.

This woman feeds your husband's codependent need to be liked, but if they actually do end up together, HE will become the reason she's unhappy and she'll have to wail softly in the arms of the next KISA.

Your husband is, sadly, emotionally immature to the point that he goes, like a puppy, to whomever is holding the treat out. He has no boundaries of his own, because he is letting other people define who he is. Anatomically, he's a man. Emotionally, he's a timid little boy.

You cannot be his Plan B. And the moment you allow it, he wins.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I am so sorry you are going through this, initially I thought maybe a bit too far in the KISA dept, but his latest conversation seems to have sealed the deal, perhaps you should slap her up on cheaterville.com and when the divorce is through you put hubby up there too?

End it now while things are this way, while damage to your emotional state are minimal and there are no heavy gory details to be engorged with, save your self and let her have him and then throw him away in a few months or maybe a year tops.

Yes file for D and start searching for an apartment but do not start dating until the D is final!!!! Let him continue to be the ass and the reason your marriage is not working out!


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## chazmataz3 (May 29, 2013)

my dad sat me down before I got married and told me,If you're doing something that that you wouldn't do infront of your wife , then you sure as hell shouldn't be doing it


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Now just go about the painful business of separating and let him stew. A lot of this is the KISA that we are talking about; a lot is that he has feelings for this woman; a lot is his pride.

You do what you need to do for you and let him figure out what he needs to do for him. You have definitely not heard the end of this, but act like you have. It will be hard, but do the 180.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> Well all last night when I was talking to K, I was sending him messages too, which he never responded to. Clear message there. Finally got a hold of him this morning (turns out he's coming back today) and told him that for me to be happy in this marriage, I need to be the priority and I need for my wants/desires to come above K's and if that couldn't be the case, then I needed to do what's best for me. His response? "Good." So there we go folks - guess I'll be starting my apartment search today.


No one would be willing to potentially blow up their marriage for 'just a friend' no matter how stubborn a person may be.

This is why I say EAs are more dangerous than purely PAs. All the emotions make those involved go nuts.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Eventually, she asked what I wanted *them *to do


This does sound concerning. She is talking about "them" and like you were the third wheel in this. Normally one would have said "what you want me to do".


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Kasler said:


> No one would be willing to potentially blow up their marriage for 'just a friend' no matter how stubborn a person may be.
> 
> This is why I say EAs are more dangerous than purely PAs. All the emotions make those involved go nuts.


I agree - but he's accusing me of being the one to end it over him talking to a girl and that's ridiculous of me.

Put a hold on going to the apartments because his mom called me and asked me if I could hold out til his dad comes out to visit us on Thursday. Ironically, his dad did the same thing to her years and years ago so guess history repeats itself.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> I agree - but he's accusing me of being the one to end it over him talking to a girl and that's ridiculous of me.
> 
> Put a hold on going to the apartments because his mom called me and asked me if I could hold out til his dad comes out to visit us on Thursday. Ironically, his dad did the same thing to her years and years ago so guess history repeats itself.


Don't put a holdon apartment searching, trust me on this, daddy might wake him up or thin the fog whilst he is in the room but as soon as he gets in the cab to go to the airport it will close in again, find something suitable that meets your requirements as they are not always around and be prepared to walk at a moments notice if the visit from daddy does not go the way you are hoping, as soon as he starts defending his relationship with this other woman be ready to call it a day and visit the lawyer on the way to the apartment.

I really am not joking here, if he is so into her then he may well dull it down whilst in company of those he respects purely to keep himself seen in a shining light and not the ass that he now, so be aware fog lift could be very temporary until he is back in his I can do nothing wrong state of mind!!!

Do what is right for you at all times now, he is not behaving as though he is a committed member of your partnership and he will revert to his mistress again and will be busy justifying it to everyone around him as though he is saving her and that you are wicked for trying to stop him helping an "innocent" and she is far from innocent sister, she knows this is inappropriate and that he is married and yes if given the opportunity she will take it PA to cake eat to spite you and he is so wrapped up in saving her and being needed he will see nothing wrong in what he is doing until years down the line.

Also refuse to be his second choice, No.1 or nothing at all!!!!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> Put a hold on going to the apartments because his mom called me and asked me if I could hold out til his dad comes out to visit us on Thursday. Ironically, his dad did the same thing to her years and years ago so guess history repeats itself.


I think MIL is still talking the path of least ressistance and walking on eggshells with her husband.
It's not only from FIL he learned, MIL's enabling attitude taught him too what to expect. Of course your husband expect you to behave as MIL.
I say go ahead with the apartment, don't follow MIL steps. Don't wait for it. Apologize to MIL if you feel you must but don't back off.

ETA
One more thing, if FIL reach out refuse to discuss your marriage, your attitude, the particulars with him. Don't engage, explain the circunstances.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Absolute proof this is an affair is the classic fog he's already in. The only way to even hope to snap him out of it is by making him face the end of the life he has with you.

As you will read here over and over, you must be willing to lose the marriage to have any hope of saving it.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> Don't put a holdon apartment searching, trust me on this, daddy might wake him up or thin the fog whilst he is in the room but as soon as he gets in the cab to go to the airport it will close in again, find something suitable that meets your requirements as they are not always around and be prepared to walk at a moments notice if the visit from daddy does not go the way you are hoping, as soon as he starts defending his relationship with this other woman be ready to call it a day and visit the lawyer on the way to the apartment.
> 
> I really am not joking here, if he is so into her then he may well dull it down whilst in company of those he respects purely to keep himself seen in a shining light and not the ass that he now, so be aware fog lift could be very temporary until he is back in his I can do nothing wrong state of mind!!!
> 
> ...


Not only could he "play the part" in front of Dad, but you already know the OW is going to make a play for him again. 

HE has to be the one to end it and allow you to verify his phone, email, fb, etc. for as long as it takes to satisfy you.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, as I was getting ready to post, hubby came in to tell me "I've done what you want" and they're not going to talk anymore. I guess we'll see happens now - if he follows through. I'll be honest, too, I don't know how to act now because I know he's angry with me.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Just ignore it. He has no reason to be angry.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Well, as I was getting ready to post, hubby came in to tell me "I've done what you want" and they're not going to talk anymore. I guess we'll see happens now - if he follows through. I'll be honest, too, I don't know how to act now because I know he's angry with me.


Now you need to be able to verify his story. Do you have passwords to all his online activity, access to his phone logs, etc.?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Continue your apartment and lawyer search with out delay. Hand the Ass your copy of NJF, and state you'll talk with him after he can accurately summarize it.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28, this man took a vow to forsake all others in return for your love and fidelity. It didn't say he HOPED to forsake all others, because he's not a little boy who cannot decide who comes and goes from his life. 

He has to CHOOSE you over all others. THAT was the vow he took. 

And you have EVERY right to hold him to that vow. Angry or not, it was the promise he made.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Now you need to be able to verify his story. Do you have passwords to all his online activity, access to his phone logs, etc.?


I do but iMessages don't show up on the phone bill so I'll only be able to tell if they slip up and it sends as an SMS. He can also Face Time without me being able to check that on the phone records.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> I do but iMessages don't show up on the phone bill so I'll only be able to tell if they slip up and it sends as an SMS. He can also Face Time without me being able to check that on the phone records.


No it means that he agrees to give you access anytime you want to any and all of his devices and accounts. ANY of them.

You won't be able to trust him without it, and there won't be any chance of reconciliation without first rebuilding trust.

He is pouting right now about losing his daily ego feed. This is not the behavior of a remorseful man. This is the behavior of a petulant child who got told "no" while trying to sneak a cookie before dinner.

Until and unless he realizes on his own what he did was wrong, stops it on his own, and comes to you utterly remorseful ON HIS OWN, I'd proceed with an apartment and securing an attorney.

At the very least, he needs to know you expect a NC letter and ANY further contact with her will result in the dissolution of your marriage.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> No it means that he agrees to give you access anytime you want to any and all of his devices and accounts. ANY of them.
> 
> You won't be able to trust him without it, and there won't be any chance of reconciliation without first rebuilding trust.
> 
> ...


He'll refuse to do that I know. He's not going to be remorseful, either. He's just going to insist that he did what I want so I should be happy.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Then you know you have to move forward with separating. If he refuses to allow you to monitor the situation to your satisfaction, then he plans on resuming. This is called taking the affair underground. 

I believe he will relent at some point if you leave, but don't do it to manipulate him. Do it to get yourself in a healthy place where you can find a mature man who respects himself and those he loves enough to have clear and defined boundaries.

Remember, he is in a fog. This is an AFFAIR, not a friendship. He's in deep and needs a reality check. You must be strong right now. Come here and share with us all the insecurities and worries, but in front of him, you must turn to stone.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

> I do but iMessages don't show up on the phone bill so I'll only be able to tell if they slip up and it sends as an SMS. He can also Face Time without me being able to check that on the phone records.


I would maybe talk with him about a different type of phone then, one that does only call and text applications, they are readily available and for as amazing as the iphone is, it is not an essential and therefore can be done without and be sure to put a keylogger on his computers and that means all of them, there are some types that will do snaps from the webcam and save every 5 seconds so if he is using certain apps on the computer to get round it you will know.

Just be careful, this is by no means the end of it, if he is angry with you then expect something irrational to crop up, he should be sitting down with you and talking to you about what you saw as a boundary breach and understanding what you expect a loyal and faithful husbands actions and interactions with others to be like, not behaving as a petulant child who has had his toys confiscated.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Headline from this story so far:

"Grown man throws temper tantrum after wife takes away new toy."


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

LOL Wrangler - great minds!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes, this is not over yet. You need to stay strong and firm. Do not put blind trust in him, he does not deserve it. He needs to be able to demonstrate to you that he understands that he was wrong.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Texas28, posters that do not stick to their guns at this point almost always fail. You have to be strong. Its the only way. Make your conditions known. You are the one that's been betrayed not him. Hes just trying to blameshift. If you waver now, you can kiss your marriage goodbye. It may end anyway, but if you are weak it will not work at all.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He will continue to be angry that he 'can't have a friend' or that you 'are controlling and paranoid.'

You can't let this make you defensive. I know how hard this is, but you have to sound firm and repetitive:

'It's fine to have friends, but you have crossed a line in this friendship. This is not my problem. It is yours and you have made it ours.'


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

You ruined his fun. He's pouting because he knows he's wrong but hates the fact that fun time is over. 

But guess what? He screwed up! You are the victim not him. You are the only one who has the right to be upset, the only one who can make demands. See how he got his butt over and said he' ll end it? He saw you were serious. That's proof that this is the only way to treat a cheater.

I'm guessing he has an iPhone? There are ways to see his messages. But he should not be erasing or clearing anything. 

Don't give in, let him pout, good girl! You have done great, reach over and pat yourself on the back.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I believe you need to be sure you guys don't rugsweep this. You may think it's a problem related to this particular OW becasue she's been there since the very beggining but you made an accurate description on what's going on here: KISA complex makes him to have an horrible notion of boundaries.
You can't afford to let him believe it's sacrifice he does FOR you, he needs to make some self reflection and soul searching. He needs to challenge himself becasue he will cross lines in the future with the next damsell in distress to come. It's a guarantee.
Dealing with this particular situation may fix things short term but you need to think mid/long term here.
I know you fear he will resent your boundaries but they are very reasonable.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

He's having an emotional affair with her. Allowing them to reconnect was not a good idea at all. His relationship with her has a great chance it will be physical if it hasn't already. Your husband is in the midst of an affair fog and will deny it. He will blame shift and possibly gaslight you to justify his poor behavior.

This contact needs to end with her ASAP. Having casual friendships with the opposite sex often does lead to affairs.

There is no way that you are being controlling by telling him to quit contact. He's crossed the boundaries and put her in front of you. If this was me I'd make an ultimatum at best. I'd probably pack up and leave if my husband ever put another woman in front of me. Your husband has to realize that your marriage is his number 1 priority and not this other woman.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Another thing is.. they were talking about taking things underground. Be sure you are not snowed, put in place every single snooping tool at hand.
I think you need to detach a little and weight your options, watch him from afar. Not to try elicit a response from him but genuinely think about the future. Hopely he will notice it. 
You have different, mutualy exclusive, views on what is acceptable in a marriage. Don't let him drag you in a parent/child dynamic in which you are here the strict parent and he rebels and break curfew.
You are not his mother and he's not a teenager.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Texas28, let me see if I get all this...

Your husband has been carrying on a semi private emotional betrayal with an old flame. Only by the fact they are 2,000 miles apart it isn't deeper- emotionally or physically. 

You have asked him to stop and he fully refused until recently. He may still continue the betrayal “underground”, but you will never know. You are forced to trust a betrayer who is adamantly opposed to giving up his girlfriend.

Making matters worse, he blames you for the breakup and will hold his betrayal against you.

And this is your Knight In Shining Armour?

Really?

As much as I hate to say this, you really need to reexamine if you want this marriage to continue. I suggest a 60-90 day period of separation for the both of you to consider if any true love still exists between the both of you and if he realizes what he was/is doing and how destructive it is.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

This isn't success. It's him finding a way to shut you up. He hasn't chosen you - he's taking it underground. Chance of this working from here is zero
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Another thing is.. they were talking about taking things underground. Be sure you are not snowed, put in place every single snooping tool at hand.
> I think you need to detach a little and weight your options, watch him from afar. Not to try elicit a response from him but genuinely think about the future. Hopely he will notice it.
> You have different, mutualy exclusive, views on what is acceptable in a marriage. Don't let him drag you in a parent/child dynamic in which you are here the strict parent and he rebels and break curfew.
> You are not his mother and he's not a teenager.


It's very common to be relieved to finally have the cheating spouse to agree to cut off contact. You think things can go back to 'normal,' you think you've done the hard thing and now you can breathe a sigh of relief.

The experienced people here are right, though. There are strong odds that this gets taken underground and that's what his sudden agreement meant - he talked to her, planned it and then was ready to set the plan in motion, step 1 being the plan to stay in touch, step 2 being the playing you for a fool. This is very common.

Keep snooping and watching. Don't get complacent. Don't let him put you on the defensive. He has been in the wrong and is threatening your marriage. His actions do this, not yours.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I just read your thread this morning and I'm sorry that you have to go through this bull crap. Your husband seems to be a selfish SOB and this woman (b1tch) is extremely possessive of him. Make no mistake about it, *this is an emotional affair!* If it wasn't, your husband would have broken it off long ago when you said you were uncomfortable with it.

Here are just some random observations:

He's a cheater and needs to be treated as such, we all know that this is not just a friendship.
This is not over ... take that to the bank. She is going to come back after him and he will fall for it hook line and sinker. It's going to go underground.
You made a mistake by stopping your apartment hunting, you should have continued. This will send a strong message to him that you will not put up with this crap. If you are going to take control over this situation, you must firm your resolve and follow through with your promises (not threats).
You need to do the 180 and show him that you don't need him. He's a self centered brat and he needs to be knocked down a few pegs.
Don't hang any hopes on your father in law making this better. First and foremost, this is his son and his blood; you're not his blood. Any help he might give you is going to be short lived. The fact that he did this himself makes me wary. 
You have every expectation and the right to demand that your husband to behave properly.Right now he is not behaving. You are not being controlling or manipulative, you are reinforcing appropriate boundaries.
It seems that you have no children, keep it that way until you are sure he has truly changed and is remorseful. Right now he is not and I'm not sure he will ever be. Kids aren't going to help.
Make your plan and stick to it. Always maintain your resolve, self respect and dignity; don't let them take that away from you. Your husband doesn't appear to be worth losing sleep over.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It's very possible he only agreed so you you shut the f0ck up... at least until FIL goes away.
Given OW is so needy and determined and his drive to "save her" I highly doubt he will just cut off even in this week visit.
Verify, verify, verify.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

I know it's likely that they'll continue to talk. I'm not sure I'm going to pursue the apartments, though - as both MIL and my own mom have pointed out, if I leave, I lose claim to the house if we do get divorced. He should be the one forced to leave if it gets to that point. Doesn't mean I'm giving in, however. I plan to follow through with the 180, although this whole situation has put me into another cycle into depression. Hubby's never been good with dealing with that either (ironic huh? when he is supportive of OW's depression, but can't deal with mine...). At this point, I just feel like staying in bed and not moving even though I know I need to be proactive and upbeat.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> I know it's likely that they'll continue to talk. I'm not sure I'm going to pursue the apartments, though - as both MIL and my own mom have pointed out, if I leave, I lose claim to the house if we do get divorced. He should be the one forced to leave if it gets to that point. Doesn't mean I'm giving in, however. I plan to follow through with the 180, although this whole situation has put me into another cycle into depression. Hubby's never been good with dealing with that either (ironic huh? when he is supportive of OW's depression, but can't deal with mine...). At this point, I just feel like staying in bed and not moving even though I know I need to be proactive and upbeat.


You can file, stay in the house and sleep in a different room. 

Also, don't take your mom's view of the house. Go see an attorney.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> I know it's likely that they'll continue to talk. I'm not sure I'm going to pursue the apartments, though - as both MIL and my own mom have pointed out, if I leave, I lose claim to the house if we do get divorced. He should be the one forced to leave if it gets to that point.


I agree totally. I didn't realize that you owned the home and I'm not familiar with the laws in your state. You can still move out of your bedroom into a different room in the house to make your point if necessary.



Texas28 said:


> Doesn't mean I'm giving in, however. I plan to follow through with the 180, although this whole situation has put me into another cycle into depression. Hubby's never been good with dealing with that either (ironic huh? when he is supportive of OW's depression, but can't deal with mine...). At this point, I just feel like staying in bed and not moving even though I know I need to be proactive and upbeat.


You have to see how he behaves now that says he broke contact  with her. While you say he won't do a no contact letter, I would ask him to anyway. Let's see what he's made of. This is not the time to be depressed and withdrawn. This is the time to be angry, mean, and if necessary, vengeful.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Don't take legal advice from lay persons. Go see a family law lawyer. Find out what is realistic. 

Do not take your husband's word for anything, look where you are, and he doesn't think he's done anything wrong yet.

Tell him point blank, he has lost your trust. What is he willing to do to prove his worth? He ought to be an open book to you. All passwords. open access to his devices, never deleting any communications, a no contact letter to the *****, what ever, for as long as you need. And you should still implement covert measures for a while to verify reality. You should not need to spy on your spouse, but this is the place he has lead you too. It really is up to him to wake the **** up, but you can give him a shove to help. If he fails, at least you're not too far in, and kids aren't involved.

ps he needs to face his issues, not his mommy or daddy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Texas28 said:


> I do but iMessages don't show up on the phone bill so I'll only be able to tell if they slip up and it sends as an SMS. He can also Face Time without me being able to check that on the phone records.


He could also get a throw-away phone for calling her. A voice activated recorder, attached with Velcro to a hidden surface of his vehicle could be a good way to find out if he's taking the affair underground... yes I think it's an emotional affair.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> I've told him that I don't want him talking to her but I've tried to compromise because he tells me how much it means to him to be able to help people (not just girls). After that last text, though, I told him I just can't handle it at all - if she can't go one day without him, it's out of control and they shouldn't be talking - she should be getting a therapist.
> 
> Thing is, he doesn't think he's overstepping boundaries - he thinks that I'm overly jealous - that I don't allow him to have female friends, that I'm controlling him by saying how often he can talk to her, and that I should trust him because he wouldn't cheat on me (doesn't have a history of it). So every time I bring this up, I'm just showing that I don't trust him and I'm being ridiculous and that he's trying to compromise by telling her he can't talk to her every day.
> 
> So the underlying problem here is we don't agree on what is appropriate/inappropriate for friends. For me, it crossed the line when she said her happiness depends on being able to talk to him every day and he validated her feelings by saying he wants to talk to her too.


There is no compromise here. Why is his ego so fragile that he needs this type of validation. It's like of some guy tells you, your so beautiful and you think you should befriend him because of it.

It is disrespectful and a bad sign that your husband is so easily manipulated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Texas28 said:


> I know it's likely that they'll continue to talk. I'm not sure I'm going to pursue the apartments, though - as both MIL and my own mom have pointed out, if I leave, I lose claim to the house if we do get divorced. He should be the one forced to leave if it gets to that point. Doesn't mean I'm giving in, however. I plan to follow through with the 180, although this whole situation has put me into another cycle into depression. Hubby's never been good with dealing with that either (ironic huh? when he is supportive of OW's depression, but can't deal with mine...). At this point, I just feel like staying in bed and not moving even though I know I need to be proactive and upbeat.


It’s not true at all that you lose claim to the house if you move out. It’s a marital asset. You keep your rights of ownership whether you move out or not. What you do lose if you move out is the right to claim the house as your current legal residence. But I a divorce you can ask to get the house. You might need to buy him out, but you could end up with the house depending on how the divorce goes. See an attorney to find out your rights.

Neither of you can force the other out of the house. It’s both of your legal residence and your both own the home (I assume). 

Just move his stuff to another bedroom in the house and tell him that he can sleep there. But if he wants to move back into the master bedroom you cannot prevent that. If he moves back into the master bedroom then you will need to move to another bedroom.

Make sure you get copies of all financial and legal documents. Open bank accounts in your name only and have your pay checks direct deposited into your accounts. Take control of your own finances.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks for the clarification on the house - will end up with separate rooms for now. Irritated right now - saw he's been searching for her on Facebook (checked his activity log on Facebook).


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> Thanks for the clarification on the house - will end up with separate rooms for now. Irritated right now - saw he's been searching for her on Facebook (checked his activity log on Facebook).


I'm sorry. That's whay we all feared. As things were developing the urge to her his fix is strong. It was a given he was to break NC even in this way.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Texas, I am sorry you are going through all this [email protected]
My story was similar to yours, except there was much less contact.
These kind of EA's are frustrating as he!!, my WH acted the same way as yours is,
almost verbatim, same kind of entitled man-child temper tantrums and everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

So sorry for you texas, you deserve better, you really do. Maybe your husband can grow up, maybe not, only time will tell, but please stay strong. You aren't crazy, you aren't unreasonable, you aren't the problem. Please don't lose sight of those facts.

Your husband is basically an addict at this point, k is his drug. He can get better, but he probably won't fully cooperate as he goes through withdrawal. You'd be within reason to confiscate his phone at this point now. Since he attempted to reconnect so quick, almost any step you take is within reason now. Cut off the internet if you feel like it, he's just being stupid now.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Married men, do not have friendships with women like this PERIOD!


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Kasler said:


> Put his ass in check, FAST. This is an emotional affair in the making.
> 
> He doesn't talk to her AT ALL, screw that. If she needs emotional support she should find herself a lasting relationship instead of flitting around from boyfriend to boyfriend.


My first instinct was to +100 this.

That said, I would step it up a notch. I would take that comment that he wrote and show it to him. Then, I would say "Sorry I am such a burden to you and this very important woman in your life. You will get no resistance any more from me. Goodbye." Walk out the door. 

If you have any chance over this other woman, he is going to immediately volunteer to cut off relations with her and immediately attempt to repair things with you (literally as you are walking out). It will also increase your value because unlike her, you dont need someone to lean on constantly- your life has value outside of him. 

That response he sent was disrespectful and not right.

**EDIT** Ill leave this response for posterity. I hadnt read through the whole thread before responding because im so used to people here who dont stand up for themselves. FWIW, I think you have done the right thing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should be keeping a record of all this with copies in more than one place that he can't get to. Especially , keep a list of the lies and broken promises.

I hope each day gets a little better.

You should get a var, velcro it under the front seat of his car. He will almost assuredly buy a cheap burner phone. Understand, he has convinced himself he is doing nothing wrong.

Do not let him know how you get any information, keep all your sources secret. Keep the facebook source secret so you can keep an eye on it. 

Run the 180 strictly, be cheerful but only speak to him as little as possible about 
the kids or household. If he wants to talk about the relationship, tell him you know he has broken no contact and there is nothing to discuss. Do not tell him how you know.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Just reminds me of this

What an a-hole, told you he would NC and even went as far as to have a tantrum about it.

180 and prep for the worst, lawyer on Monday get it signed sealed and delivered to him and move on asap.

Please do not embroil yourself in this too much emotionally as it only serves to hurt you more, I speak from experience!!!

Sorry but you deserve much better than this IMHO.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28, call it what it is: an affair. If he cannot stop talking to her, he's chosen her over you.

That's a hard pill to swallow, I know. But now you need to protect your assets and prepare to separate.

The only way he *might* come back from the fog is to face losing you for real.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

So in a twist of fate, my phone started receiving his text messages last night (and no, I did nothing to make it do that - apparently this is a glitch in iPhones when you share the same iTunes/iCloud account). Unfortunately, I didn't realize it and brought it to his attention that this person had texted me by accident instead of him. Well, after spending an hour restarting my phone, guess whose text comes through on his phone (but not mine since we'd fixed it by then... of course!)?? Her message - "I understand that's [them not talking anymore] what's best for the majority, but it's not what's best for me." Told hubby that was selfish and manipulative of her and I'll be watching to see what he does in response. Hopefully, no response but I'll accept him telling her that's not acceptable, too.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

next time dont fix the glitch, it may be your way to see whats going on.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

mablenc said:


> next time dont fix the glitch, it may be your way to see whats going on.


I know - I'm kicking myself for saying something - I caught on too late to what had happened!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Have you brought up a no contact letter? If you do a search, you can find some examples. It should be definitive, not sappy, and to your satisfaction. That is what he can send, then he can get a new cell number.

Is he still pouting?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Texas28 said:


> I know - I'm kicking myself for saying something - I caught on too late to what had happened!


Google how to unfix the glitch you fixed:rofl:.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Have you brought up a no contact letter? If you do a search, you can find some examples. It should be definitive, not sappy, and to your satisfaction. That is what he can send, then he can get a new cell number.
> 
> Is he still pouting?


Not so much - he's trying to return to normal but will make a negative comment once in awhile. I have the samples from Not Just Friends but might search online too - they'd certainly be more direct than he has been with her when he's tried to break it off the past two-three times. That's what drives me crazy - he understands that they shouldn't talk like they do but he responds when she messages him! He needs a backbone.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You should sign in on your phone with his apple id. You'll get access to his imessage again then.

Have you made it a condition that he actually put effort into fixing the problems he is displaying (reading NJF to start)?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> You should sign in on your phone with his apple id. You'll get access to his imessage again then.
> 
> Have you made it a condition that he actually put effort into fixing the problems he is displaying (reading NJF to start)?


He absolutely refuses to read NJF - he said he'll read parts that I point out to him, though. He's a nonreader in general, so asking him to read anything is a no go, not just because it's relevant to this topic.

I'm always signed in on his apple id - we share it. However, I only receive my iMessages - if I select receiving his, too, it'll send him a message and he'd have to "okay" it, which he would not. I might be able to pull that if he's asleep or something, but it was nice for it to just happen without me doing anything this last time :lol:


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Well, until he can put in minimal effort to avail himself of information (get the book, get SN guidebook, do any research whatsoever?)that is directly relevant to how he is ****ing up, I'd say absolutely refuse to have anything to do with him.

This isn't a small quirk you can live with, or rugsweep, or what ever. He needs to face up to what he is doing, or you are resigning yourself to continuing and worsening trouble.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What is a KISA?

Oh and she totally wants your man.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> What is a KISA?
> 
> Oh and she totally wants your man.


Knight in Shining Armor - although he's not acting like mine, just for her!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Texas28 said:


> Her message - "I understand that's [them not talking anymore] what's best for the majority, but it's not what's best for me."


 Wow, the other woman (OW) just told your husband that she understands "what's best for the majority" (meaning your marriage), "but it's not what's best for me." Point out to your husband that this statement shows what is wrong with this OW's relationship with your husband, because it shows that she believes that her relationship with your husband should be on equal footing with your husband's relationship with you as his wife. It shows that she does not respect your marraige as being his primary and priority relationship. She even demeaned your relationship with your husband by not even calling it a marraige but by calling it a "majority" meaning if only she can get your husband to vote with her she would be part of the majority instead of you. Again, just wow!!!


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> So in a twist of fate, my phone started receiving his text messages last night (and no, I did nothing to make it do that - apparently this is a glitch in iPhones when you share the same iTunes/iCloud account). Unfortunately, I didn't realize it and brought it to his attention that this person had texted me by accident instead of him. Well, after spending an hour restarting my phone, guess whose text comes through on his phone (but not mine since we'd fixed it by then... of course!)?? Her message - "I understand that's [them not talking anymore] what's best for the majority, but it's not what's best for me." Told hubby that was selfish and manipulative of her and I'll be watching to see what he does in response. Hopefully, no response but I'll accept him telling her that's not acceptable, too.


NO RESPONSE. NONE. Her number, FB, etc. should be blocked by now if he was serious.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Texas28 said:


> Knight in Shining Armor - although he's not acting like mine, just for her!


Thanks for explaining. Hm... your husband sounds kind but their contact is too much. I only read your first post and it's blatantly obvious she wants your husband. "You're the only one that understands me?" Really? She said that to him? Texas, you are a woman which means you know women and how they think. Me, too. I will say it again: she is up to no good. It's up to your husband to set boundaries (you, too) and enforce them. She is trolling for him. Trying to inject herself into his life. She is being inappropriate. He would not at all be ok with you having the same kind of contact/conversations and history with someone if it were a male.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TRy said:


> Wow, the other woman (OW) just told your husband that she understands "what's best for the majority" (meaning your marriage), "but it's not what's best for me." Point out to your husband that this statement shows what is wrong with this OW's relationship with your husband, because it shows that she believes that her relationship with your husband should be on equal footing with your husband's relationship with you as his wife. It shows that she does not respect your marraige as being his primary and priority relationship. Again, just wow!!


:iagree:

This woman has some balls. For her to even think that is ok to say to a married man speaks volumes about where her mind is at. He should have shut that down immediately.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> He absolutely refuses to read NJF - he said he'll read parts that I point out to him, though. He's a nonreader in general, so asking him to read anything is a no go, not just because it's relevant to this topic.
> 
> I'm always signed in on his apple id - we share it. However, I only receive my iMessages - if I select receiving his, too, it'll send him a message and he'd have to "okay" it, which he would not. I might be able to pull that if he's asleep or something, but it was nice for it to just happen without me doing anything this last time :lol:


AGAIN, he should be doing all of the heavy lifting to fix this, and yes, that means even pushing through a book or two. This is your marriage you're fighting for, not some self-improvement project.

The fact is, he isn't doing any of the things necessary to end the other relationship because you haven't DEMANDED it. You're afraid to issue an ultimatum because you are fearful of him walking away. I get that. But I urge you to read up on the large number of times here the BS was wishy-washy and fearful. You CANNOT "nice" him back - that will only allow him to continue this.

So far, you've threatened to leave and took it back. You demanded NC and yet, there is contact.

When is enough going to be enough? Where is the line in the sand for you?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Let me ask you this:

What would a woman with courage and self-respect do?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

I know - and I know I'm being too nice still but I have been implementing the 180. One of hubby's biggest complaints is that when I get upset, I get distant/shut down/lack emotion. So I'm trying to be distant... yet upbeat? if that makes any sense. Right now, I'm waiting to see if he holds true to his word that he won't talk to her. I've grown up with horrible examples of relationships and refuse to be stuck in a similar marriage. So if things don't change, someone's outta here.

As for the OW, I agree - I can't believe her attitude. Awhile back, when hubby told her they couldn't talk as much the first time, I texted her and said it wasn't okay for her to feel as if she couldn't go a day without talking to him. Her response to him was that I made her feel like a pathetic human being for not being able to go a day without talking to him. Really??!! Told this to my MIL and she said she would've slapped the b****.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Not so much - he's trying to return to normal but will make a negative comment once in awhile. I have the samples from Not Just Friends but might search online too - they'd certainly be more direct than he has been with her when he's tried to break it off the past two-three times. That's what drives me crazy - he understands that they shouldn't talk like they do but he responds when she messages him! He needs a backbone.


Unfortunately he is thinking with his frontbone.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Don't be subtle about it. Tell him point blank. He has ducked up monumentally here. He needs to take initiative to repair the damage he has done. He needs to restore trust, he needs to figure out where he is going wrong. How he does that is up to him, but a first big step would be for him to figure out what he has done wrong. NJF can point him in the right direction to start. Beyond that, tell him you are watching and waiting, but the clock is ticking. It's up to him to demonstrate his commitment, or lack there of.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't like his refusal to read NJF.....shows he is not that committed to the marriage and he thinks what he is doing with the OW is not "wrong". He is not taking your concerns (HIS WIFE) seriously and that is such a slippery slope. 

My ex refused as well. He also didn't like to read but even after me explaining that our marriage depended on it he still didn't' want to read it. He even got mad at me when I highlighted some sections for him to read...said the author was trying to make too big of a deal out of opposite sex friends and they were just upset that they didn't have any themselves........:scratchhead:

Anyways, I think he did see some of his behavior in the book and didn't want to acknowledge it.

After dealing with an actual PA prior to the EA I discovered last year, this was definitely a deal breaker (engaging in an EA).

No husband should put ANY woman before their wife. Friend, sister, mother, cousin, co-worker.....no one. Especially if the wife has valid concerns over a threat to the marriage. 

Good luck. I hope he does start to see how damaging this friendship is and also how damaging his behavior is by putting her above yourself (and the marriage)


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> Don't be subtle about it. Tell him point blank. He has ducked up monumentally here. He needs to take initiative to repair the damage he has done. He needs to restore trust, he needs to figure out where he is going wrong. How he does that is up to him, but a first big step would be for him to figure out what he has done wrong. NJF can point him in the right direction to start. Beyond that, tell him you are watching and waiting, but the clock is ticking. It's up to him to demonstrate his commitment, or lack there of.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This and more this. 

He needs to understand that he is hurting you, the marriage and treating this woman with more respect than he treats you. It is said here often that you need to be willing to sacrifice your marriage in order to save it. He needs to understand that you would rather end the marriage than be second to another woman ... and you need to be firm and serious about it ... no wavering. Please read Darklilly23's thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/81849-old-flame-just-friends-ea.html#post2204649 and see how her situation mirrors your own. She came to the conclusion that she would rather be without her husband than be the second woman in a 3 person relationship. 

BTW, your husband is not a KISA, he's a cheater and is disrespecting you big time. The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be.

BTW2: Your MIL is right. It's time to get nasty with the POSOW and your husband.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> This and more this.
> 
> ...


Exactly. This is a war for your marriage. One that you didn't start but you must now finish. Every single time you think you are showing patience or understanding, the POSOW sinks her claws in deeper.

Eiither she is gone, or you are. Once your husband faces that choice - for REAL - real remorse and reconciliation can begin. You cannot be on both sides of a war. Make him choose.

BTW, how would your husband feel if the tables were turned? Using that analogy helped me to punch through my wife's fog. Basically, I just said, "If I were doing this in front of you, would you tolerate it?"


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> He needs to understand that he is hurting you, the marriage and treating this woman with more respect than he treats you.


Bottom line.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Exactly. This is a war for your marriage. One that you didn't start but you must now finish. Every single time you think you are showing patience or understanding, the POSOW sinks her claws in deeper.
> 
> Eiither she is gone, or you are. Once your husband faces that choice - for REAL - real remorse and reconciliation can begin. You cannot be on both sides of a war. Make him choose.
> 
> BTW, how would your husband feel if the tables were turned? Using that analogy helped me to punch through my wife's fog. Basically, I just said, "If I were doing this in front of you, would you tolerate it?"


When I ask him that (because, when we were first dating, he did ask me to not talk to my male friends because they were interested in me and I agreed - I might've still said hey or said happy birthday on FB, but never an indepth conversation), he claims he wouldn't be upset if I reconnected with an old male friend because he knows I wouldn't do anything. That's true - I become paralyzed when a strange guy even talks to me at a bar because I don't want to send the wrong message. However, he does concede that talking everyday would be too much if it was for an extended period of time. That's why he agrees that he and OW shouldn't be talking to one another that often - we agreed that once a week (he even said that might be too much!) should be more than enough contact for friends. She just doesn't agree, won't respect the boundaries, and he gives in to her.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Bottom line.


He does - or he says he does - and that they can't continue their 'friendship', especially the way it is, since it upsets me. He just doesn't seem to stick with it - but we'll see if he does this time.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> When I ask him that (because, when we were first dating, he did ask me to not talk to my male friends because they were interested in me and I agreed - I might've still said hey or said happy birthday on FB, but never an indepth conversation), he claims he wouldn't be upset if I reconnected with an old male friend because he knows I wouldn't do anything. That's true - I become paralyzed when a strange guy even talks to me at a bar because I don't want to send the wrong message. However, he does concede that talking everyday would be too much if it was for an extended period of time. That's why he agrees that he and OW shouldn't be talking to one another that often - we agreed that once a week (he even said that might be too much!) should be more than enough contact for friends. She just doesn't agree, won't respect the boundaries, and he gives in to her.


If she is an enemy of the marriage, then SHE MUST GO. Period. How can "once a week marriage cancer" be any better than "once a day marriage cancer"?

You cut the cancer OUT.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

What does she have over this guy?

There is some reason he won't tell her to f*ck off. She has info. My guess is there is much more to this than you know.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

NO CONTACT - PERIOD!!!

The EA is already there.....a PA is only a hop skip and a jump away. If it hasn't happened already.

Love the cancer analogy - CUT THAT B!TCH OUT!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

What if you restore your back up copy of your phone prior to the glitch? I wonder if it would do that again. Just a thought


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> When I ask him that (because, when we were first dating, he did ask me to not talk to my male friends because they were interested in me and I agreed - I might've still said hey or said happy birthday on FB, but never an indepth conversation), he claims he wouldn't be upset if I reconnected with an old male friend because he knows I wouldn't do anything. That's true - I become paralyzed when a strange guy even talks to me at a bar because I don't want to send the wrong message. However, he does concede that talking everyday would be too much if it was for an extended period of time. That's why he agrees that he and OW shouldn't be talking to one another that often - we agreed that once a week (he even said that might be too much!) should be more than enough contact for friends. She just doesn't agree, won't respect the boundaries, and he gives in to her.


Be careful, sounds like he is about to play the "trust card" for your own mental health whenever he says 
"trust" just replace with the words "what I want to do"
BTW IMHO he should NOT be talking to her AT ALL...
This stuff is soooooo bad for a marriage! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> If she is an enemy of the marriage, then SHE MUST GO. Period. How can "once a week marriage cancer" be any better than "once a day marriage cancer"?
> 
> You cut the cancer OUT.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
I so agree with this. Many couples do not allow for opposite sex friends (OSF) at all. Those that do usually have boundaries that include that the OSF must be friends of both the spouse and the marriage, which this other woman (OW) clearly is not.


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## Unaware (Jan 7, 2013)

Your H is the same type of KISA that my POSX is. He is there for everyone else. I get it and for me this was just as hard as the cheating.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

My stbxh refused to read anything I found on EAs he said "why would I want to read a bunch of people saying I am wrong"

This stuff is so heartbreakingly weird...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

darklilly23 said:


> My stbxh refused to read anything I found on EAs he said "why would I want to read a bunch of people saying I am wrong"
> 
> This stuff is so heartbreakingly weird...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's his response when I ask him what everyone else says about his "friendship" with this girl - everyone, even his female friends that he works with, agree with me. He has read the few excerpts I've shown him but he says he's doing what I've asked by limiting the contact. He just doesn't get it... or doesn't want to get it.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You have to enforce NO CONTACT


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> That's his response when I ask him what everyone else says about his "friendship" with this girl - everyone, even his female friends that he works with, agree with me. He has read the few excerpts I've shown him but he says he's doing what I've asked by limiting the contact. He just doesn't get it... or doesn't want to get it.


Do you actually realise how utterly pathetic this is?

You deserve better than this level of , of, of, I even hesitate to call it commitment, because it indicates anything but commitment.

You are choosing to allow him to treat you like this. Stop it, I implore you. Stop it right now.

Change your behaviour. Change your status quo. Surely you can clearly see that the pain coming your way far exceeds any pain associated with change, can't you? You must change for your own good. Get angry. Get fierce. Protect yourself, damn it!

Demand concrete action from your husband. If he refuses, accept his decision and file for divorce. Get to the rejection, if that's where this is heading. It's far better to find out now, right now, than days, weeks, months, years down the road. You deserve better, but you need to reach for it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> You are choosing to allow him to treat you like this. Stop it, I implore you. Stop it right now.
> 
> Change your behaviour. Change your status quo. Surely you can clearly see that the pain coming your way far exceeds any pain associated with change, can't you? You must change for your own good. Get angry. Get fierce. Protect yourself, damn it!


:iagree: THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO! :iagree:


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Do you actually realise how utterly pathetic this is?
> 
> You deserve better than this level of , of, of, I even hesitate to call it commitment, because it indicates anything but commitment.
> 
> ...


THIS!!! 

You are still trying to fix the situation by altering HIS boundaries and HIS behavior. 

You can't! He's a free-thinking, free-will individual. He's choosing the relationship with the OW over the marriage to you. You can't reset his values and priorities - HE has to.

All you can work on is YOU. You have to have boundaries, unshakable boundaries, not for HIM, but for YOU. You have to decide what you will and won't accept, and be willing to cut off anyone who will not respect those boundaries. Including him.

That's that the 180 is - fixing YOU, and in so doing, showing those who hurt you the door.

Life will dish out only what you keep allowing.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Yep, I would say "All I asked is NC with any one you have been in love with or slept with" 
And he would say "but I did cut it off!" To which I would say "yes but you broke NC again"
Then he would say "I would have never had any kind of feelings for her if you had not said our marriage was in trouble"
Sigh...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

Time to gather some dirt on this ***** from resources your husband would trust.

Ideas
~Ask your mother in law to talk to his old BFF who dated the skank.

~Find someone who DOES have access to her FB. See if she's posting statuses like "Hey Hey You You I don't like your girlfriend"

~See if she's dating anyone...HE might be interested in this mess.

And...I'd probably plan some fun stuff with your husband. GO to a concert or fair or events. And ask if you BOTH can leave your phones in the car. Enjoy time without little miss skankypants invading. There is no doubt about it, she's pining after your man. So BE fun, do stuff he likes with him...and leave the phone behind. Get his attention on you for being awesome, not for freaking out over the dirty phonezilla chick.

:smthumbup:


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

CreekWalker said:


> Time to gather some dirt on this ***** from resources your husband would trust.
> 
> Ideas
> ~Ask your mother in law to talk to his old BFF who dated the skank.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion about planning fun stuff - that's something he and I need anyway - with or without this girl. Less time focused on everything else and more time focused on one another.

Things have been okay this week - no contact since Monday (woohoo!). Also, his dad had a talk with him - not really effective since his dad thinks it's a situation of "do you want out of your marriage?" when it's really a "I want my cake and eat it, too" situation. Hubby wants to stay married but thinks he should be allowed to do this whole thing on the side, too. He said he's not though, for me.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Same stuff from my FIL, he told stbx to "do what makes him happy"
But now that OW is forming a relationship with my stbxh,
Daddy is going to "take him out for a trip"...

I do wish the in laws could come up with a bowl of moral fiber sometimes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

darklilly23 said:


> Same stuff from my FIL, he told stbx to "do what makes him happy"
> But now that OW is forming a relationship with my stbxh,
> Daddy is going to "take him out for a trip"...
> 
> ...


I think the problem is the in laws have no influence on these guys - they'll turn a blind eye to every flashing neon sign that says they're wrong. MIL and both FILs tell him he's an idiot and needs to cut it out (unless, like his father says, he wants out of the marriage anyway). I show him books and articles that say OSF are sticky situations and if your spouse says to stop it, you need to stop it. His friends tell him he's just looking for trouble. All of that and hubby still insists all he's doing is helping a friend - even if he does have NC. Problem now is I'm finding it hard to trust that there is NC... usually he tells me when he talks to her or if he hasn't talked to her. Today, though, he's been sneaky with his phone and super nice to me so I'm suspicious...


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Yeah, I have a feeling you are right about the sneaky phone use, the one thing I have learned in my ordeal is to trust your gut, your gut may not know exactly what is wrong, but it knows if something is off. And that you need to listen to.

Could you PM me or post links to the articles you found?
If you tell me about OSFs I'll believe you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

And you continue to accept it. Why?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you and darklilly need to buddy up here. Your situations are very similar. You can benefit from each other's experience.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Let him talk to her. 

Also help him back his bags.

If SHE means more to him than YOU, then what does that say about how he feels towards you.

You can't control him but you can control yourself and what you'll tolerate.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Texas28 said:


> I think the problem is the in laws have no influence on these guys - they'll turn a blind eye to every flashing neon sign that says they're wrong. MIL and both FILs tell him he's an idiot and needs to cut it out (unless, like his father says, he wants out of the marriage anyway). I show him books and articles that say OSF are sticky situations and if your spouse says to stop it, you need to stop it. His friends tell him he's just looking for trouble. All of that and hubby still insists all he's doing is helping a friend - even if he does have NC. Problem now is I'm finding it hard to trust that there is NC... usually he tells me when he talks to her or if he hasn't talked to her. Today, though, he's been sneaky with his phone and super nice to me so I'm suspicious...


Then just walk away. NOTHING says I'm Done more than walking away. Suddenly, he'll stop and think , wait, maybe I CAN'T have both of them; maybe my wife DOES have a spine. Maybe I'd better respect her.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think you and darklilly need to buddy up here. Your situations are very similar. You can benefit from each other's experience.


"If all are on board, commence operation recon from the plant "Manchildea"

"We have already sent down an away team,
All systems are ready Captain"...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Ugh, I know it's been awhile since I last updated but having FIL here made it difficult to have time. Worse, after he left, I slipped into a deep depression that I'm still going through. Most days I don't want to get out of bed - haven't eaten lunch in days, though I do snack on some crackers once in awhile. MIL keeps calling to tell me to fight for my marriage and tells H the same thing, but I don't know how I can fight for something when he's not...

Last week, saw that OW had liked one of H's old facebook pics in the middle of the night - obviously she had been going through his pictures since it wasn't a recent one - also one that I had been cropped out of.

This past weekend, saw H being sneaky with his phone (hid it when I walked past him) so I asked if he was talking to her. He said no. Middle of the night, set his phone to send his messages to my phone. Monday, he texts her and says he wants to continue the conversation they had over the weekend and she says "sure you can ask me whatever you want." I slip up when texting him and he sees I'm getting his messages so my cover is blown - At this point, I've gone through a bottle of wine because I've just lost it. Went to counselor by myself (H said he'd go but I said only if he wanted to and obviously he didn't since he didn't show), who said it's obvious he's having an emotional affair and she couldn't understand his behavior since he acts as though he wants the marriage to work when we're in the sessions and he wants me to be more emotionally connected to him but that he's sabotaging that with his actions with this girl.

Have talked to H occasionally the past few days but nothing much gets said. Talk of divorce - he even said "so my texting her is going to end our marriage?" and I said "no, your lying, deceiving, choosing and defending her at my expense will end our marriage." His response? "Your decision." Tell him that I won't look like the strange one for ending our marriage over texting - he will - people are going to ask him "So, if it was a problem, why didn't you just stop?" instead of "She divorced you over something so silly?" Still, can't get myself to even get out of bed at this point, let alone try to move out or find a lawyer - the thought of going to the grocery store is overwhelming enough at this point.

Start back to work and school soon - not sure how I'm going to be able to deal. I'm already an anxious person as it is and I really don't know how I'm going to cope.

Oh, and even better, he now has a password on his phone so I can't set it to send me his messages anymore. Lovely, really helps build that trust that's been bulldozed....


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Your marriage will not survive as long as he has contact with that woman.

He can blame you and minimize all he wants. Its HIS ACTIONS that would be leading to D

I'm sorry you are stuck in limbo at the moment. Do you have any plan of action?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Your marriage will not survive as long as he has contact with that woman.
> 
> He can blame you and minimize all he wants. Its HIS ACTIONS that would be leading to D
> 
> I'm sorry you are stuck in limbo at the moment. Do you have any plan of action?


No, not really. Will be seeing a different counselor, hopefully, for IC since I'm such a mess now. Hoping they will help me set a clear path for what exactly to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your plan: 
Make an appointment with your GP to get on some antidepressants and some vitamins to improve your health
Make an appointment with a new IC
Pack up your husband's clothes and leave them on the porch
Make an appointment to see a lawyer

You can always call off the divorce later, if he wakes up. As it is, he won't stop ANYTHING because you are letting him cheat in YOUR home.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is time to listen to exactly what he is telling you with no ambiguity what so ever. Either he does not believe you will take action, or he does not care.

You need to care (about yourself). You feel hurt, betrayed, lost. You probably don't really believe this is really happening, or understand why. For the time being, you need to choose to act strongly. You need to behave as if you have ice water in your veins, and take control. Go see a doctor, go see an IC (you can fall apart there for a while), go see a lawyer, start to separate any assets. Think about what you want from the situation. Think of what will be best for you. Staying there, or moving home? 

It may seem dark and dismal, and right now it is, but it won't stay this way. You are worth better. You truly are. You can do better, you don't need a jerk dragging you down like this. You can do this. You just need to start. Write a list of what you need to do. Include the first step you need to take for each thing, and start with those things. Keep updating your list, keep doing small steps, and you will make progress. We are here when you need to vent, when you need support, when you need encouragement. You can do this, you are not alone.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you both. It really is so hard - because I still love the man he was 6 months ago... we've both turned into these horrible versions of ourselves and I don't recognize myself or him anymore. When asked if I still love him, I can't answer it - I love the him he was and think still could be - but who he is right now - lying to my face, making me feel worthless in comparison to this other woman - I don't love that person. I don't love me either - I've been sneaky, deceptive, and cruel in retaliation, so I can see why he wouldn't want to be with me the way I am right now either. Not much incentive for him to want to be with me if this is the me he's seeing and vice versa. If we were to stay together, I don't know how to get away from these horrible people we've become.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is a choice. You act how you want to act (or at the very least AS IF you are like you aspire to be, which works wonderfully too). Act like a person who deserves better. Act like a person who is better. Act like a person who won't tolerate this crap. You will become that person. That's the best you, or anyone can do.

In the meantime, unless your husband shows clear, unambiguous remorse, treat him like an addict. All that matters is his fix. He w8ll say and do what ever to placate you, while pursuing his drug (her attention). Do not consider him rational, reasonable, or rely on him to be an adult, until he PROVES that he is.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> It is a choice. You act how you want to act (or at the very least AS IF you are like you aspire to be, which works wonderfully too). Act like a person who deserves better. Act like a person who is better. Act like a person who won't tolerate this crap. You will become that person. That's the best you, or anyone can do.
> 
> In the meantime, unless your husband shows clear, unambiguous remorse, treat him like an addict. All that matters is his fix. He w8ll say and do what ever to placate you, while pursuing his drug (her attention). Do not consider him rational, reasonable, or rely on him to be an adult, until he PROVES that he is.


I know - and I think that's where I need antidepressants to help me get past this point of feeling as if I am worthless so that I can begin acting like a person who deserves better. Hopefully, this time next week, that'll be one thing I can cross off my list. Plus I'm headed up to visit my family for a week. While that causes me anxiety because who knows what H will be up to while I'm gone, maybe it'll help to be around people who do make me a priority.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Your plan:
> Make an appointment with your GP to get on some antidepressants and some vitamins to improve your health
> Make an appointment with a new IC
> Pack up your husband's clothes and leave them on the porch
> ...


In other words, stop letting him dictate the parameters of your marriage. You don't like what he is doing? Then show him there are severe consequence for his actions. It isn't like you are telling him not to see his family, friends or go hang out at a sports bar to watch a game. You are telling him this woman is severely damaging you and your marriage. You gave him a choice and he chose a password.

No more counseling, get him out of your life.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Remember, if you are going through hell, keep going!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Thank you both. It really is so hard - because I still love the man he was 6 months ago... we've both turned into these horrible versions of ourselves and I don't recognize myself or him anymore. When asked if I still love him, I can't answer it - I love the him he was and think still could be - but who he is right now - lying to my face, making me feel worthless in comparison to this other woman - I don't love that person. I don't love me either - I've been sneaky, deceptive, and cruel in retaliation, so I can see why he wouldn't want to be with me the way I am right now either. Not much incentive for him to want to be with me if this is the me he's seeing and vice versa. If we were to stay together, I don't know how to get away from these horrible people we've become.


I'm all for culpability and the sharing of responsibility and issues when it is warranted. Read what you are doing carefully. You are blaming yourself. Stop it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

If you don't like what you are becoming (what he is pushing you to become by his bad behavior) then the answer is simple; remove yourself from the poison. Simply tell him, "I can't live like this, I want out." Then follow through by separating and starting the legal process. This will do one of either two things:

He will see that you are serious and maybe he will come to his senses. Only after you are truly convinced that he "sees the light", you can stop the process and resume a healthy marriage, or ....
He will say: 'Fine with me, I don't need you I have someone else." That will give you the closure you need to move on and heal yourself.
I don't see any alternatives for you. All I know is that you don't deserve this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If possible, you could gather your strength to try to be the person you want to be and have a serious talk with your H before you leave to see your family. Say that you never wanted things to reach this point, but it seems to be a sad truth that he doesn't care that he is hurting you with this relationship with this woman. He treats her like his secret girlfriend and there is no room for three in a marriage. Say that if the tables were turned and you were talking privately and secretly with a man, getting closer and closer to him & your H asked you to stop because it alarmed and hurt him, you would stop. Don't act angry and needy, just sadly matter-of-fact. Don't ask questions. Just say your piece.

And then go on your trip and regroup. 180 as much as possible to gain some balance and control back. Understand that it's not the end of the world if he doesn't love and respect you enough to choose you in this. You have yourself and the rest of your life ahead of you. You can't control his choices, but you can control your own, so choose to stand tall.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I knew he would go back to his wasy the very moment FIL left.
Very obvious.
Think very hard in the kind of marriage you want, think mid and long term.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I haven't checked in in awhile. See your gp and follow the 180 to the letter, especially the cheerful part. Be the person you used to be, fake it till you make it. Just let him know, by actions alone, that he is being left in the dust.

By practicing the 180, with the help of your MD, you will see who you are really married to.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to face the fact you are married to a lying, cheating jerk. He isnt worth the effort.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

turnera said:


> Your plan:
> Make an appointment with your GP to get on some antidepressants and some vitamins to improve your health
> Make an appointment with a new IC
> Pack up your husband's clothes and leave them on the porch
> ...


Add some sleeping pills to this list, if you can't sleep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you for the advice and encouragement - I really appreciate it. He's doing a real good job of driving me further and further away today, too. Looked her up on Facebook again. Yelling at me for making a snarky comment about how he's imitating her texting style (stupid smiley faces...) and that I've ruined his day. Guess tomorrow will be my search. I assume, in most divorces, a lawyer is a must have, yes? I would've said this would be amicable but the way he's yelling now, I don't know. So tired of it all... for being the bad guy in this.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Hey texas, like I said feel free to pm me anytime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's trying to bully you into submission. He wants to eat cake and you're not playing along.

What makes you think you're the bad guy? HOW could you POSSIBLY be the bad guy in this situation? Are YOU cheating? Are YOU bullying your spouse? Are YOU blaming him for ruining your day?

It's time to get mad, Texas. And yes, a lawyer is a must.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You can start by downloading a divorce packet for your state. Someplaces you have hover the packet from the county courthouse.

If you do not have a lot of common assets, you may be able to di it alone or go to mediation.

Him seeing you fill out the paper work and making lists of what is yours may wake him up.

No matter what you do you need to consult an attorney before signing anything.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you have a link to the 180?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Well I've been forced to take action - he's given me no other choice now. Last night, started getting his texts again (not intentionally, somehow our phones synced up again - probably because I had done it in the past but who knows - know this is a phenomenon that occurs with iPhones). He was drunk - texted OW, telling her that he was drunk and that another girl (a mutual friend of ours) was driving him home and that she was hot. Well, I was driving him home and I saw his messages when I got home and I interrupted their conversation. Long story short, the night turned physical and I sent OW a message telling her so. He gets on the phone afterward with her because she wouldn't stop calling until she found out everyone was okay. Tells her he didn't hit me, just called me names (which he did, too). I slept in other room - he apologized a few times saying what he did was unacceptable but that he hadn't done anything wrong in the days prior to that and I kept getting mad at him anyway - basically deflecting from the fact that he had hit me. Saw his phone - keeps telling OW that he didn't hit me and she says she believes him - he's a great guy, etc., etc. Told his mom what happened, she's talked to both his dads (bio and step), and they agree he needs help and will do whatever I need to help me and him. So tonight I'll be staying in a hotel until I leave to visit family. Then, I'll be getting an apartment while I get counseling and I hope while he gets counseling, too. I know many here will say I should just get a divorce, and that probably is true, since no one should stay with someone who has hit you. I just want to show that I have hope he can make some major, drastic changes. If he doesn't, well I'll feel better knowing that I gave him that chance and it was he who decided not to take it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> You can start by downloading a divorce packet for your state.


I did this when my wife didn't understand my issue with her and her "friend." I had her bags packed, the papers signed and basically said truth or GTFO.

I know things happen, but this guy has been emotionally abusing you, playing mind games and bullying you into staying in the marriage. Now, he did the classic bully tactic and hit you when you pissed him off. Oh and I HATE the word bully because people, in the 21st century, misuse the meaning and assign it to every little thing. Your husband is a bully and if there is a next time you might not be so lucky. 


You should have called the cops.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You should still call the cops.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There needs to be a paper trail at the police station so the next time he hits you, if you get back together, they'll have something to do something with. If he really cares about you, he will understand why you needed to do it. If he doesn't, then you really NEED the police file against him.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should keep track of the chances/do overs you give him in one column and the result in another column.

When I was little we used to have a saying, you're cruising for a bruising. Although we used it to warn someone they were crossing the line. In this case your husband is crossing one line after the other and you just keep backing up.

Why do the wives that post here avoid all advice given? I know some of our great lady posters wonder why more men do not post on the ladies threads. Its because so many are incomprehensible.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh there's plenty of men who don't listen too!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Its because so many are incomprehensible.


For me it is about getting browbeat because I am not a woman. No, not all do that, but there is a very vocal minority, like with the D, gender and R cliques, that has led to bans. 

Best to just stay out and keep posting.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Sad&Angry is right, no one has the right to lay a hand on you, he is now not only a liar, but a punk as well. Don't ever let him do that to you again, call the police if he even threatens such a thing, they will take action.

You need to take control of your life and not let this man disrespect you, you deserve better. There is no difference in what he is doing with her than if it is a PA. I guarantee you, if you were doing what he is doing, he would be losing his mind right now. Also don't talk to that Swamp Sow again, she is not worthy of a minute of your time. 

I recommend that you take 30 days away from him, no contact whatsoever, this will help to relieve the anxiety and allow you to gain perspective. At the end of that period, you two need to have a conversation about what you want to do. However, condition of reconciling the relationship is the Swamp Sow has to go now and forever.....period. This has to be a die on the sword issue for you, no compromise. He then has a decision he need to make in life. He can choose to live up to his vows (forsaking all others) or he can choose to a Swamp Sow. Now if you really want to punish him, give him a plane ticket to go live with her. Trust me she is stroking his ego, but nobody wants to be saddle with her forever, that is the beauty of being 1000 miles away.


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## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

Texas28 said:


> Well I've been forced to take action - he's given me no other choice now. Last night, started getting his texts again (not intentionally, somehow our phones synced up again - probably because I had done it in the past but who knows - know this is a phenomenon that occurs with iPhones). He was drunk - texted OW, telling her that he was drunk and that another girl (a mutual friend of ours) was driving him home and that she was hot. Well, I was driving him home and I saw his messages when I got home and I interrupted their conversation. Long story short, the night turned physical and I sent OW a message telling her so. He gets on the phone afterward with her because she wouldn't stop calling until she found out everyone was okay. Tells her he didn't hit me, just called me names (which he did, too). I slept in other room - he apologized a few times saying what he did was unacceptable but that he hadn't done anything wrong in the days prior to that and I kept getting mad at him anyway - basically deflecting from the fact that he had hit me. Saw his phone - keeps telling OW that he didn't hit me and she says she believes him - he's a great guy, etc., etc. Told his mom what happened, she's talked to both his dads (bio and step), and they agree he needs help and will do whatever I need to help me and him. So tonight I'll be staying in a hotel until I leave to visit family. Then, I'll be getting an apartment while I get counseling and I hope while he gets counseling, too. I know many here will say I should just get a divorce, and that probably is true, since no one should stay with someone who has hit you. I just want to show that I have hope he can make some major, drastic changes. If he doesn't, well I'll feel better knowing that I gave him that chance and it was he who decided not to take it.


Hi and sorry you are here.

He will go through withdrawals if he tries to get out of this EA. He is in deep.

Before you go out of town, I would put a var in his car as well as a tracking device. I would also put a var in your house, in the areas where he would most likely talk on the phone. 

I would do these things so that upon your return, if he says he wants to work things out, you can verify on your own if he is really going no contact. If when you return he says he does not want to work on your marriage, then it doesn't matter about the vars.

You can also go into the billing on your iPhone/ATT website and turn on family map for his phone and you can track at ay time that way, however it will sent a cryptic text to his phone saying that he can be located... he may or may not ignore that text form ATT. 

You will be happy you did these things because it will give you intel as to where he is at in your relationship. People in EA's don't say what they mean or mean what they say. It can be confusing even for them and they will get very angry when you take away their drug, every time his phone dings and he gets a text from her, it is like a drug injection, it keeps him feeling good.

I would not give him your exact travel dates either, I would tell him I am coming back sooner then I am so that he thinks your back and is wondering why he isn't hearing from you.
Nor would I let him know when he should expect to hear from you again. 

If you are really going to stay in a hotel or get your own apartment from this point on, I would then tell him when he does contact you that if he has something to say to you, he can do in a marriage counseling session and give him the time and date of your next counseling session. See if he show up.

I think you have a lot of hoops to jump through before you see where everybody involved in this lands.

Good luck. The only way to work on your marriage is if she is completely out of the picture. He will have to go no contact at least 2 - 3 weeks before you can really judge what direction it will go with him. The first couple weeks he will be angry and mean and it will be like he is on a roller coaster.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Remind me: have you told his parents and your parents what he is doing?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

yes, their families know he has been idiotic, and that op was running out of patience, but she hadn't said if she let them in on the very latest developments.

FWIW, I think him hitting you is unforgivable. Call the cops, file a report, press charges, and divorce the piece of ****.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

I know this is likely over and I should've involved the police (effectively ending it) but the (admittedly crazy) part of me still holds some small (very, very small...) hope that with intensive counseling, things could somehow be worked out. Yes, his parents know everything that happened that night and are supportive of me getting out of the house while he undergoes counseling. Right now I'm at a hotel until I leave for my trip to see family, have already contacted apartments for one bedrooms, and have reached out to a new counselor for me. I've told H he will need to go to counseling, at the very least to show he is making an effort to change - whether or not it works, who knows. He doesn't think it will - thinks he just needs to make sure he doesn't act that way again (right... ) but is willing to go. I just know that I won't be around if he doesn't make some drastic changes in his life - no more girls, no more drinking, and anger management. I choose to have a husband who respects me and protects me - if he chooses to behave as a single guy, who goes out and gets too drunk and acts like an ******* - that's his choice, with me not in the picture as a result.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

How are you doing Texas?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> How are you doing Texas?


Well I'm with family now, been keeping busy which has been nice. There are times, though, when I have an overwhelming desire to check his FB (which I can't now, b/c he changed his password) or the phone bill (which is also pointless because iMessages and Facetime don't show up). That's the hardest I think - because why should I care at this point? More than likely he is talking to her because he can without me knowing. I guess it's become somewhat of an obsession though for me to know with certainty if he's talking to her or not, which I hate. Fortunately, as I said, I've been busy though, so I haven't had much down time to sit and dwell on it.


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## hellosp (Jul 14, 2013)

Texas, I've been reading your story and I just wanted to give you a virtual ((hug))! I know it's hard, but you are doing what you can and have handled yourself well considering the situation. We are all here for you <3


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Joining to that hug!

Hang in there friend.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

" Hugs"!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you for the hugs. Still on an emotional roller coaster and trying to deal with the various stresses (marriage, school, work, mom's cancer, etc.) in my life right now. NC with H right now.


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

Update - got home yesterday - had to go to the house because I don't have an apartment set up yet. Plus I'll be trying to kick him out, not the other way around. Anyway - he left his work computer up and on - saw they'd been sending messages there (of course) including him saying he couldn't wait to see her, he needs her, etc. So sickening. Getting in touch with attorney today.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Texas28 said:


> Update - got home yesterday - had to go to the house because I don't have an apartment set up yet. Plus I'll be trying to kick him out, not the other way around. Anyway - he left his work computer up and on - saw they'd been sending messages there (of course) including him saying he couldn't wait to see her, he needs her, etc. So sickening. Getting in touch with attorney today.


So sorry Texas, I know the sickening feeling all to well, I think if you are like me it comes in large part from thinking you had a good person in your hands , but now your brain can't come to grips with what you believed for so long was not the case.

My stbxh just slept with OW now there is no doubt in my mind that he is not like me, so it feels more like a clean break.
Now I am just left with what I see him who's less than human and I don't understand how people can live with themselves.

Has anything been said about his IC? 
"Hugs to you" you are going to get to the other side of all this mess, and your life will be so much better!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Copy what you found and send it to his parents. There is no telling what he has said. Matter of fact, show your parents too.

Star putting his stuff in bags. Get a var for when he goes nutzoid again. Have 911 on speed dial. Hen get a restraining order.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

How are you doing Texas?


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## Texas28 (Jul 4, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> How are you doing Texas?


Somewhat in a limbo - can't afford to move out so we're in the same house, in a strange act like nothing happened, but we both know I'm not acting normal situation. FIL is here for a week or so again, so that helps, too. I'm going to IC, which has helped and it appears hubby has stopped contact with OW. Thing is, I still feel as though he isn't apologetic for any of what he did and he seems to think that because he's no longer talking to her that I should be okay. Harder yet is trying to stop myself from snooping - found more messages (old ones) that just make me sick - yet, at the same time, they validate my anger at the two of them and think how stupid *they* are for saying they're just friends when they said stuff like "maybe we should be together if we make each other happy" and "maybe we should run away together." They get pissy at me for overreacting because they haven't done anything and they're "just friends" BUT WHAT THE HELL IS THAT CRAP? Makes me want to screenshot those messages and post em on facebook/instagram and tag them so everyone can see... Idiots... anyway, it's a day by day process - I'm trying to focus on my new job that I'll be starting soon and putting my energy into that. Not sure if we'll be staying together or not - that'll be something I figure out as I work through my IC - what it is that I need from him in order for us to be together.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

How are things Texas?


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi Texas, I've been lurking on the CWI forum at TAM since I first found it (about a year now). Reading the advice given by the posters on this site to others has helped immeasurably in wrapping my head around the sordid transgressions (on both sides) in my own marriage of 19 yrs.

I'm writing here because for my part I was involved in an EA very similar to what your husband's was (is?). I'm hoping this gives you an idea of where your husband's head is at. 

I honestly didn't think that what I was doing at the time was wrong. Because texting wasn't really around or at least very common then, the OW and I would phone each other at least 3 - 4times a week and I would go into the bathroom or somewhere else to talk to her for an hour or more at a time while my wife handled our 2 babies ('cause hey - they were too distracting). I thought it was okay 'cause the OW was only telling me about the trivial trials and tribulations in her day and I would always relay the gist of the conversation to my wife when it was done. 

No secrets, no harm eh?

I had no idea or more likely just refused to see how incredibly disrespectful and hurtful I was being to my wife. I know that she voiced her concerns but I wouldn't hear it. After all, this other woman and I were just friends! I had known her long before I ever met my wife, and besides, I had never once laid a finger (let alone a wayward one) on her.

This went on for a couple of years.

What I failed to see was that, despite lots of opportunity, my 'friend' made absolutely no attempt to really get to know or engage my spouse in similar fashion. In fact she started to get more demanding of my time, wanting to spend it with me exclusively when she came to town while my wife babysat the kids.

My wife asked me how I would feel if she did that to me and it was brightly lit mirror held up to my actions. I took a hard look at my motivations and realized that I had been cake eating and rubbing the woman I had married's face in it. 

The OW was my plan B and if things weren't working out with my wife, I could always take the extra step and find solace in her arms. In the mean time I'd just keep her as a friend 'cause, what the hell, I was still getting lots of sex from my wife.

The problem was that no one likes to be a plan B and the OW was now forcing my hand, trying to pull me off of the fence onto her side.

I'd like to say that I was being all noble and that I'd had an epiphany, realizing the horrible error of my ways. 

In fact *I was a user and a coward* in both relationships, in the end just opting for the safer and more comfortable landing afforded by my wife and marriage. It's taken a year of lurking on TAM for me to really understand that. 

Kind of ironic considering I originally came here looking for an explanation of my wifes unrelated actions later in our marriage. 

But I'll leave that for my own thread.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

lostmyreligion said:


> But I'll leave that for my own thread.


Great post lostmyreligion. Please start it.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks Acabado, I will. 

One thing I've learned in the reading that I've done here on CWI is that I can expect a lot of the responses to be brutal and probing. 

Starting my own thread is kind of like drinking that well known cough syrup. You know - the one that tastes like hell but it works... 

This post was a little self-serving in that it helps me stay honest in what is going to be a long full account of the events in my own relationship.


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