# To men whose wives won't have sex with them...



## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.

So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


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## Earl Dibbles Jr (Nov 1, 2012)

How old are you and how long have you been married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Late 20's

Married 4 years


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## Earl Dibbles Jr (Nov 1, 2012)

Ahhhh. I understand your misunderstanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

The reason why sexless marriages exist is this:

If your girlfriend stops having sex with you, you dump her and lose only her.

If your wife stops having sex with you, you divorce her and lose her, your kids, your house, (probably) your car, your life savings and a good fraction of your income for the rest of your life (alimony).

It's interesting how rarely you see a guy post here that about his girlfriend not having sex with him. Married women can get away with this because of divorce/family laws.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Zig said:


> The reason why sexless marriages exist is this:
> 
> If your girlfriend stops having sex with you, you dump her and lose only her.
> 
> ...


...and we wonder why so many guys don't want to commit to marriage anymore???


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## Earl Dibbles Jr (Nov 1, 2012)

Preach on brother Zig.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

I feel bad for older guys who get taken to the cleaners in divorces.

I don't feel bad for younger guys who've seen what has happened to their fathers, uncles and brothers and are still stupid enough to load the revolver half full and pull the trigger.


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## Earl Dibbles Jr (Nov 1, 2012)

But the younger fella's get convinced that the twizzard is their soulllllllllmate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm not very experienced in this subject but I believe having a divorce here on this side of the ocean is a lot less man-hostile than in the USA. Ofcourse that has it's downsides but at least it decreases the negative aspects you've just mentioned.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow. So much negativity. 

And as far as soulmates go, there are many out there for ya. Not just one.

I think many people DO NOT talk about sex and sexual "what ifs" enough BEFORE marriage.

We talked the hell out of it before saying "I do." Sure, we have some moments in time where we're out of sync, but for the most part, we respect each others' sexual desires.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

Also, I don't think that the reason married women stop having sex after the first baby is born is hormones or the stress of a new baby.

The baby is what triggers the really Draconian family laws. Knowing that you'll become a two weekend a month dad is enough for many men to endure a personal hell for the rest of their lives in order to be in their children's lives.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Wow. So much negativity.
> 
> And as far as soulmates go, there are many out there for ya. Not just one.
> 
> ...


That's really easy to say when the laws are protecting you.


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

I've just checked the governmental stance on the issue here and there's no bias towards man or woman when it comes to children. These things have to be mutually decided per individual case. 

I'm so happy I don't live in the USA - no offense.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Protecting me? from what?

I'm HD so, I like to get busy with my man.

If we were to divorce, I'd go back to being how i was before for 7 years. Raising children (I had one at the time) on my salary. I can support myself and my kids if I had to. As with my ex, I wouldn't ask for anything from my husband that didn't concern the child we have. I don't get child support from my ex because the less ties I have with him the better. When we broke up, I took nothing but my kid and my stuff. 

I guess I'm not the norm, but don't assume I have this "calm and collected" manner because I have faith the laws protect me. :lol: Nah.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Protecting me? from what?
> 
> I'm HD so, I like to get busy with my man.
> 
> ...


I've read your posts. You're an amazing woman. 

But please understand, you're an incredibly rare exception.


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## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> I'm so happy I don't live in the USA - no offense.


Hah I live here but no way in hell I'd get married here!


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

barcafan said:


> Hah I live here but no way in hell I'd get married here!


What other area of life would someone accept a 50% failure rate?

Imagine if you got on a plane or in a car knowing there was a 50% chance of a fatal crash.


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## old pilot (Oct 9, 2012)

Marrage is outdated and overated.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

my ex did alright out of our divorce, he got £75k and doesn't have to pay me a penny, not that I want a penny off him 

I can support myself thanks, always have and always will - I would be ashamed of myself if I couldn't


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## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

Zig said:


> What other area of life would someone accept a 50% failure rate?
> 
> Imagine if you got on a plane or in a car knowing there was a 50% chance of a fatal crash.


I can't argue with that haha


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## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> my ex did alright out of our divorce, he got £75k and doesn't have to pay me a penny, not that I want a penny off him
> 
> I can support myself thanks, always have and always will - I would be ashamed of myself if I couldn't


Okay I take back what I said. I will get married if I find a sugar mama who can give me 75k when we divorce


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Wow. So much negativity.
> 
> And as far as soulmates go, there are many out there for ya. Not just one.
> 
> ...


I know...

There are a lot of things people don't talk about before marriage lol

I am so thankful that my husband and I are so in sync when it comes to sex. We are both freaks but straight edged in everyday life stufflol


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

These "important discussions" almost never happen in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship and yet men almost universally report that the best sex they've had with their wives was during this period.

I wonder why? :scratchhead:


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Zig said:


> These "important discussions" almost never happen in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship and yet men almost universally report that the best sex they've had with their wives was during this period.
> 
> I wonder why? :scratchhead:


Maybe....the novelty aspect of it & the brain chemicals that make us coked out on new love.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Maybe....the novelty aspect of it & the brain chemicals that make us coked out on new love.


But what about boyfriend/girlfriend relationships that are five or ten years old? Something definitely happens to a woman when she gets married.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

My sex life has dwindled to perhaps 2 times a month over the past 3 1/2 years. Over that time, two of my wifes sisters died lingering deaths. The last one passed away in August. Their illnessesa and eventual passing took a tremendous physical, and emotional toll on her.

I am hoping we will have an eventual return to better times. 

We were married in 1966, I was 19 and she was 21, and as I have said in other posts, I think we averaged 7 times a week for the 1st 15 years....making up for childbirth. periods, etc. with numerous doubles, triples, etc. 

During that 15 years, I was recuperating from a motorcycle crash for 3, and since the kids were in school, and I spent most of my time in bed anyway........

I also spent 7 of those years working on second shift....That ment long mornings of lovemaking (she had a little half slip that looked so trashy It just drove me nuts).

My wife was very orgasmic at that time, and the sex was always enthusiastic on both sides.

I will say this at the risk of the wife reading it....At that time, we could have sex twice in a morning, and a half hour later, on my way to work, a nice a$$ in a tight skirt would still snap my head around.....

Most women would say "why are you looking at her when you just had sex" and "Don't I satisfy you?" I think most guys will know that feeling, and have heard those remarks.....A hot babe is a hot babe.......

At anyrate, that is how I wound up in a sexless/low sex marriage..


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## CWM0842 (Dec 8, 2011)

My wife keeps herself quite well. We are still relative newlyweds at 2 years and still under age 30. She was sexual when we first met but I guess the initial attraction wore off and now she has lost interest on some level. Times when there is absolutely no stress she becomes interested but that's not everyday life. The slightest bit of stress overrides whatever remaining attraction she has for me. I am lucky we don't have kids yet as it'll be an easy decision if nothing changes.

She is otherwise fun and we have discussed the issue ad nauseum but she can't seem to change. I'm not sure what I was thinking getting married. Right now it's the biggest regret of my life.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

CWM0842 said:


> My wife keeps herself quite well. We are still relative newlyweds at 2 years and still under age 30. She was sexual when we first met but I guess the initial attraction wore off and now she has lost interest on some level. Times when there is absolutely no stress she becomes interested but that's not everyday life. The slightest bit of stress overrides whatever remaining attraction she has for me. I am lucky we don't have kids yet as it'll be an easy decision if nothing changes.
> 
> She is otherwise fun and we have discussed the issue ad nauseum but she can't seem to change. I'm not sure what I was thinking getting married. Right now it's the biggest regret of my life.


Smart thinking. :smthumbup:

I wish you the best, unfortunately, if she's already rationing sex before kids it's not a good sign...........


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> I've just checked the governmental stance on the issue here and there's no bias towards man or woman when it comes to children. These things have to be mutually decided per individual case.
> 
> I'm so happy I don't live in the USA - no offense.


It is the same in Australia, we have fair laws and no alimony. Very happy to be living in the Land of Oz.

Apart from that I want to add:
It is not only men that are on the bad end of sexless marriages, there are many women that are. Just read the threads here.


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## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

lol Zig I'm glad you stuck around after the tattoo thread, you're hilarious!


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


I have just found out that my husband has been having an affair and one of the main problems has been lack of sex. ie once a month.

For me, my husband just used to pinch my nipple and expect me to change into some kind of sex monster. If anything it put me right off. I hated it. I need to feel loved and wanted. I want to be touched and to feel loved. In my opinion the sex would automatically follow. As I was starved of love and affection this is the situation I find myself in. My husband in an affair leaving both of us devastated.

So in summary what I would say if my husband took just a little bit of time to make me feel good like flowers once a year on my birthday, to be wined and dined once a year then maybe love would have followed by sex.

I hope this makes sense?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

CWM0842 said:


> My wife keeps herself quite well. We are still relative newlyweds at 2 years and still under age 30. She was sexual when we first met but I guess the initial attraction wore off and now she has lost interest on some level. Times when there is absolutely no stress she becomes interested but that's not everyday life. The slightest bit of stress overrides whatever remaining attraction she has for me. I am lucky we don't have kids yet as it'll be an easy decision if nothing changes.
> 
> She is otherwise fun and we have discussed the issue ad nauseum but she can't seem to change. I'm not sure what I was thinking getting married. Right now it's the biggest regret of my life.


Take the issue off the table. She has to 'be in the mood' and expects you to what? Wine and dine her every time? Get a six pack of abs? Cure cancer?

Maybe I'm low drive or old 44, but I no longer want to play sh*ty sex games. You want it? Great! Lock and load! You don't? Go to bed, honey. I have something to take care of in the downstairs bathroom.

Of course every rejection is like a single saw stroke across the Tree of Love (yes, both ways)

So what exactly is wifey doing to FIX this problem? Nothing? Then that tells you she doesn't think it's a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


I think the defining characteristic for most sexless marriages is misplaced priorities. This works from both sides, but I'll try and define it from a female perspective as I see it as a man.

The wife originally thinks hubby hung the moon, but familiarity, as always, breeds contempt. It's good for the occasional crisis to happen in a marriage. Shakes the complacency out.

But he's a flawed being with his OWN needs and she starts thinking of him having needs as Needy.

Then she squirts out a few kids and THEY have needs too. Well, she has to prioritize and HE is a big boy and being a 'good mother' confers St. Momhood where being a 'good wife' gets nothing except maybe a few sniggers from the Sisterhood (this is similar to the whole 'whipped' scenario with men).

So she keeps dressing nice for the other moms in Mom chic, cuts her hair shoulder length at best because the long hair he likes is just SO MUCH TROUBLE.

PTA and Girl Scouts and the job and school functions and Me Time all get pushed ahead of 'that guy'...IF she forgets to make an effort to keep him, if not in the top spot, at least in the top three.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

earl dibbles jr said:


> but the younger fella's get convinced that the twizzard is their soulllllllllmate.
> _posted via mobile device_


lmao!


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


My wife is in fantastic shape - takes care of herself and is frankly the most incredibly georgeous woman I know. She is lucky to not have to work. She is funny and pretty goofy at times but also very serious at other times. Was she ever sexual, well sort of. When we discuss sex it is always I am the bad guy for bringing it up - in fact at one point a few years ago she reluctantly said ok fine lets do it rolled over and half way through when she became frustrated with me for wanting to move a bit I told her lets just not do it because you are not enjoying it ... Well that sparked a crazy reaction where she called me a "f'ing *******". And it is not the first time. She sleeps as far away as physically possible. Yesterday after being out for a while she returned home with pizza for our young kids, made dinner for herself and went to bed. Mind you, I had cleaned the house, done laundry as usual made myself a sandwich and hot the sack. I asked her to come under the covers and hug me. She ripped my head off insisting 'I am under the covers' as if to say you idiot. Accused me of being too Boney and turned over after 5 minutes properly going to sleep. Keep in mind for the last 4 months I have made it a point to only hug her at night so s to reinforce that I am only interested in affection.

That's my sex life - a good caring guy - dealing with a woman with past sexual abuse. The way it works is that sex is bad and evil and I am the big bad monster for wanting it. Even affection as that is related to sex is bad. Last night I sensed also that she was upset that I didn't initiate see when we do have sex she is pretty happy afterwards. I think in hr mind that it is my duty to make sure she gets it and part of the deal is that the lead up is as painful for me as possible with constant reminders that what I am doing is an unpleasant reality of life. Sort of like having to do laundry, we need to donor and once it is done its nice to have clean cloths and linens. 

Frankly, I am miserable. I always think of the cartoon peppy le pew where I am the skunk chasing a cat the squirms out of my embrace. I feel repulsive all the time and mostly likea cuckold. How I wish it was as buzz are for her to think of withholding the same way you do - a mystery. However, unfortunately I know all to well that the reason for all this has a lot to do with abuse as a child. Puts me in very depressing state if mind that I must either live with or quit...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

barcafan said:


> lol Zig I'm glad you stuck around after the tattoo thread, you're hilarious!


I decided I wasn't going to allow myself to be bullied off the forum.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

JCD said:


> I think the defining characteristic for most sexless marriages is misplaced priorities. This works from both sides, but I'll try and define it from a female perspective as I see it as a man.
> 
> The wife originally thinks hubby hung the moon, but familiarity, as always, breeds contempt. It's good for the occasional crisis to happen in a marriage. Shakes the complacency out.
> 
> ...


This is hilarious and at the same time so unfunny in so many other ways. I was recently accused of being needy - I immediately thought WTF! We don't touch each other bit once every few months. A couple of years back I decided let's see what happens if I never initiate, wel I got a year in and couldn't handle it anymore. I just love (sarcastically) how episodes of Greta anatomy are more important. If I come home late from work twice in a week I hear echos of how I am never home in conversations for the next few weeks. I cook, clean, do laundry, provide a single income situation and still get reamed for not being available. Recently after a huge fight when I was working late every night I made a promise to stop and have now for over a year been home promptly - bit never to a meal - ind you the kids are accounted for in the food department. Usually make myself a sandwich or bowl of cereal at night. When I said what's up? She said you can't expect me to just fall into place, you got to understand I became accustomed to having no husband and now you are always around and that's awkward. So holy *****, I must be in as oratory and the subject of an evil experiment. Well here are the results. I am an idiot and cuckold. Now please end the experiment!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> My wife is in fantastic shape - takes care of herself and is frankly the most incredibly georgeous woman I know. She is lucky to not have to work. She is funny and pretty goofy at times but also very serious at other times. Was she ever sexual, well sort of. When we discuss sex it is always I am the bad guy for bringing it up - in fact at one point a few years ago she reluctantly said ok fine lets do it rolled over and half way through when she became frustrated with me for wanting to move a bit I told her lets just not do it because you are not enjoying it ... Well that sparked a crazy reaction where she called me a "f'ing *******". And it is not the first time. She sleeps as far away as physically possible. Yesterday after being out for a while she returned home with pizza for our young kids, made dinner for herself and went to bed. Mind you, I had cleaned the house, done laundry as usual made myself a sandwich and hot the sack. I asked her to come under the covers and hug me. She ripped my head off insisting 'I am under the covers' as if to say you idiot. Accused me of being too Boney and turned over after 5 minutes properly going to sleep. Keep in mind for the last 4 months I have made it a point to only hug her at night so s to reinforce that I am only interested in affection.
> 
> That's my sex life - a good caring guy - dealing with a woman with past sexual abuse. The way it works is that sex is bad and evil and I am the big bad monster for wanting it. Even affection as that is related to sex is bad. Last night I sensed also that she was upset that I didn't initiate see when we do have sex she is pretty happy afterwards. I think in hr mind that it is my duty to make sure she gets it and part of the deal is that the lead up is as painful for me as possible with constant reminders that what I am doing is an unpleasant reality of life. Sort of like having to do laundry, we need to donor and once it is done its nice to have clean cloths and linens.
> 
> ...


Has she had treatment for the abuse? Have you gone to therapy to understand whats going on with her?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

JCD said:


> I think the defining characteristic for most sexless marriages is misplaced priorities. This works from both sides, but I'll try and define it from a female perspective as I see it as a man.
> 
> The wife originally thinks hubby hung the moon, but familiarity, as always, breeds contempt. It's good for the occasional crisis to happen in a marriage. Shakes the complacency out.
> 
> ...


I think we live in the same town lol


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

I have just found out that my husband has been having an affair and one of the main problems has been lack of sex. ie once a month.

For me, my husband just used to pinch my nipple and expect me to change into some kind of sex monster. If anything it put me right off. I hated it. I need to feel loved and wanted. I want to be touched and to feel loved. In my opinion the sex would automatically follow. As I was starved of love and affection this is the situation I find myself in. My husband in an affair leaving both of us devastated.

So in summary what I would say if my husband took just a little bit of time to make me feel good like flowers once a year on my birthday, to be wined and dined once a year then maybe love would have followed by sex.

I hope this makes sense? 
you still would not have sex with him no matter what. You are a sexual person or your not and women think that if their husband are some romantic they'll just be so horny. nonsense. MY wif never want to have sex and doesn't matter what I do. Selfish people can't be fixed. Thats why she one day probably won't be my wife


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That's what I think is funny. Men, while dating, are spontaneous and adventurous and have hobbies, etc. Then after marriage, they sit on the couch and eat. Then they slap your ass and honk your boob and that's supposed to make the wife swoon :rofl:

I know I should say SOME or MOST, but since everything in this thread is about bashing women and marriage, I won't say SOME or MOST. 

I always wondered wtf my mom saw in my stepdad. He just sat around all freakin day. Before they married, he had hobbies (bowling, cars, etc) and my mom had hobbies (sewing, gardening, etc) and then it just stopped.  I swore to never be like that. How can you feel sexy when you just sit around all day?!

So...thankfully my husband still has his hobbies and he looks hot while doing them. I still have my hobbies but don't get to them nearly as much...but i don't mind, I still do them. We didn't just get married and then start honkin boobs. It did start to happen at about the 2.5 year mark, but I nipped that quickly (no pun). KISS me. TOUCH me. GRAB me and take it.

It did help to talk about sex a lot before marriage. We had AMAZING sex, but i had to talk about it as well. I had been in ENOUGH low-drive relationships and i wasn't about to marry into one. Thankfully, H is HD too.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Has she had treatment for the abuse? Have you gone to therapy to understand whats going on with her?


Yes, I spent about 9 months in therapy - every two weeks. I learned that we have a pursuer / distances dynamic and was advised to lay off and try to figure out to what degree I need to give space. I learned in trying that approach that she became clearly more relaxed and happier. I am pretty good at throttling myself and have seen a little improvement such as her fulfilling a fantasy of mine about 6 months ago. I felt pretty proud of myself. I completely understand that situations like mine don't fix themselves overnight and given the small amount of improvement gives me some hope. The other thing I learned in therapy was that I can not be completely self-sacrificing...that only leads to resentment. So despite me calling myself an idiot, cuckold etc, I know that most would hac fled by now. It is just so tough, lonely and plain sad at times. Thank g-d for SSRIs! 

As for her, she has not engaged in any therapy. Is like to suggest it to her but also feel I need to keep my @$$ out of her business and simply try to make it known I am there to support her. I made that clear when she told me of her past abuse. I thanked her for telling me the little that she did, told her I admire her courage and that I would leave it at that and if ever she needed an war I would be there non-judgementally. The problem is with all this that I do feel very self sacrificing. 

The thing about therapy is this - you do it for yourself primarily - to change yourself, not the other person so, until, if ever she is ready, I am stuck where I am - in a place of occasional torture - I mean it is really torture to have the most beautiful person pass you by looking so georgeous and not able to appreciate a compliment. You see I can't even compliment as any comment is a candidate for being criticisism - with hidden meaning and alterior motives. How I wish sometimes that in the midst of a dr Phil episode he'd break out of character and talk directly to her and let her know that I am not a monster...

I watched a show recently 'couples therapy' or something with a bunch of washed up celebrities - the wife could not open up to her husband, she didn't hug just like my wife who curls into a ball when I embrace her. The message to the wife was to open up and trust ER husband ad the advice to the husband was to give unconditional compassion and time would heal. Well I just wonder how long and can I endure...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I know...
> 
> There are a lot of things people don't talk about before marriage lol
> 
> I am so thankful that my husband and I are so in sync when it comes to sex. We are both freaks but straight edged in everyday life stufflol


My wife and I were together for 8 years before we wed, and were the very best of friends for six years prior to even getting together. That's 14 years of investment in one another before we said "I do".

To say that we'd talked about our views on nearly everything, from every side, would be an understatement. Consequently we have an incredible marriage, and from the looks of it one of the best marriages out of anyone in both our lives.

I still cherish marriage. I believe it in strongly from an emotional, and spiritual, standpoint. But this society has moved into a direction where marriage is no longer considered mandatory, and if entered into needs to, for most people, be done so after a lot of consideration, more so than in times past. 

I think a lot of people who are married, and are lining up to get married, are making a mistake.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> *That's what I think is funny. Men, while dating, are spontaneous and adventurous and have hobbies, etc. Then after marriage, they sit on the couch and eat. Then they slap your ass and honk your boob and that's supposed to make the wife swoon :rofl:*
> 
> I know I should say SOME or MOST, but since everything in this thread is about bashing women and marriage, I won't say SOME or MOST.
> 
> ...


Yay finally. So many men here whinging, whinging, whinging and women bashing. How about taking some responsibility for your own actions or inactions.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

Holland said:


> Yay finally. So many men here whinging, whinging, whinging and women bashing. How about taking some responsibility for your own actions or inactions.


Do I really need to quote all the male posters that explain how they take their wives out on dates, buy flowers, work and do chores and they still get nothing?


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

The problem lies with BOTH sexes.

For men, we become lazy. USUALLY! Like to think I am an exception. 
But we don't do spontaneous things anymore. We don't wine and dine you as much. We don't spoil you randomly, or complement you as much, or do the things that make you feel beautiful and wanted. We don't stay in shape. WE get fat and sit on the couch. We don't cuddle, we don't do what made our lives during dating absolutle bliss. 
Look at other threads where guys just stop listening to their wives. Their wives are pleading to have a conversation with their husband, but he is too busy watching football, while she feels like her needs are being stepped on. 
I can see where EA stem from. If you sit on your butt, eat chips all day, and zone out your wife so you can watch football, I wouldn't be surprised if she had an EA. Not saying it is right, but I am not as surprised. That or divorce papers.
So in return, you don't feel hot. You don't feel loved. so why would you want to have sex? You don't. So the sex gets cut off. 
And then we as guys resent you are wanting to love us, so it just turns into a vicious cycle of resentment and unhappiness.

Now, women however, have it differently. 
Once you're married (unless you signed a prenup) you have your man by the balls. 
You get alimony, you can get child support, you can take us to court to receive our property that we spent our lives trying to obtain. You get the kids even! 
Now, yes, there are exceptions. Some women don't want those things, they just want to be free. But they are in the minority! 
Plus, a woman can lie during dating and let her man have her way, then once she gets a ring, she is done. She just has to wait out maybe year so the marriage can't be anulled, then she wins. Literally. She can refuse sex everyday for the rest of the poor man's life, and he can either give her half of everything he owns so he can try to find happiness again, or he can cheat. Or he can get really good at masturbating. 
And which of those options is the best?
Giving half your stuff to someone that refuses to love you?
Getting really good for the next 30, 40, 50 years? 
Or cheating?


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

And yes, I forgot to add, there are those exceptions, where guys will wine and dine their wives, treat them like royalty, and get zero sex. Then switch it up, become alpha, and push her buttons a little, and still get ZERO sex. 

And yes, there are women who love their husbands 3x a day, but she could say "Honey, I want a divorce," And all he'll hear is "What do you want for dinner?" 

You got to be careful. 
And in today's age, I would say not get married. I know, big hypocrite here...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Are these the same men that take their wife out expecting sex, instead of getting back the mojo that is missing, and when sex isn't delivered, they whine about it?

But if you have others to quote, please do!  There are even WOMEN here who don't get sex from their men!  YES! They do everything to entice their men and STILL get nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zippppp.

Things happen in a relationship. Bait and switches occur. I was DEATHLY afraid of that happening. Which is why I wouldn't marry the other guys I dated. I didn't see a good outcome. 

My husband used to buy flowers for girls before we met. I know this because his friend told me. He doesn't buy flowers for me because he bought me a house and provides for 1/2 our bills. Things change. I don't complain about it. He does what he can to make me feel like the woman I am and I do my best to make him feel like that man he is. 

But to sit and complain that a wife had anal sex at 21 but won't do it with her husband...holy wow. Have YOU had something shoved up your butt hole? It hurts. It's not comfortable. (TMI but reality comin' up) i did it with my husband because he wanted to..UNTIL he tore me. Then it got infected because poop comes out of the butt...and was getting in my tear. Fun stuff!! You think I will do it again? Not on your life. If my husband died tomorrow, no other man would get near my rear. Ever.

Worry about what the woman and you do together. Worry about how she treats you as a man. If the sex isn't enough, then find someone else before you say "I do". Don't expect sex to get better...take it for what it is. I don't know why people talk about sexual history. It usually just gets the other person all butthurt and complainy. And that's just NOT sexy.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:rofl: WOW! We women are some conniving pieces of crap! Hell! I wish I knew I could just get married and wait it out a year to get my alimony!


Geesh. Yuck. Yuck yuck.

I guess these are the woman who have NOTHING before marriage? I was already set in my life. My husband was set. Neither of us having more than the other. In fact, I had the better place to live and better furniture/stuff. He had credit debt. lolol.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

The assumption that men should take their wives out on dates or be spontaneous to regain what the once had is ...laughable.

I have just as many responsibilities as she does, why the F do I have to be the one to take on the responsibility of getting her to find me attractive again? If she does't want me, divorce me. Quit sticking around and sharing the bills, watching me take care of my fatherly and husbandly responsibilities and then check out when it comes to holding up the intimacy. That's infuriating.

I'm a strong person. Always have been always will be. And I refuse to play the game of trying to woo my wife. Why can't I be woo'd?

And even if I were to capitulate and take her out and show her a good time frequently I'm still S out of luck because she's thinking "he's just doing this to get lucky". So as men, can you see how we're damned if we do damned if we don't?

Trying to reconnect and we're just trying to get laid. 

Trying to stay strong and hope she stops acting like roommates is interpreted as us being lazy.

Can not win.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I have to make generalizations. 
There are exceptions to every rule. You are one. So am I. 
Do I sit around on the couch all day and eat chips? No. 
Did you need a man to save you? No. 



that_girl said:


> I guess these are the woman who have NOTHING before marriage? I was already set in my life. My husband was set. Neither of us having more than the other. In fact, I had the better place to live and better furniture/stuff. He had credit debt. lolol.


Just because you are established does not disprove the generalization. Besides, we already proved you are an exception because you wouldn't take a man to the cleaners in divorce. 
Most women can, and do. 
Just because you don't, doesn't mean that is the norm.


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

sinnister said:


> The assumption that men should take their wives out on dates or be spontaneous to regain what the once had is ...laughable.
> 
> I have just as many responsibilities as she does, why the F do I have to be the one to take on the responsibility of getting her to find me attractive again? If she does't want me, divorce me. Quit sticking around and sharing the bills, watching me take care of my fatherly and husbandly responsibilities and then check out when it comes to holding up the intimacy. That's infuriating.
> 
> ...


Bravo :smthumbup:

Again, men don't have to jump through these hoops with girlfriends. It's only when you tell a woman you want to spend the rest of your life with her (like it's some kind of insult).


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think it's a mutual thing. 

The man shouldn't be the one doing it all the time. It's give and take, or should be. If one isn't doing it, then it crumbles. No one wants to be in a 1 way relationship. At least I don't. 

But it's the little things. Picking up something I know he'll like from the market when I'm there. Cute texts during the day. Making his favorite dinner for no reason other than it's Tuesday. Random touches throughout the evening. Making sure he has lunch stuff for the morning when he packs it. That's what helps my husband understand that I love him. Not everyone is the same, I know. But then he'll look at me and say, "Hey, tomorrow night...let's go out and get a drink...  " Yay!! ok. I plan nights out too...but it's the little things that really get him 

To lose that would kill our marriage. Keeping score would kill our marriage. Pettiness almost DID kill our marriage. Dear god. We'll not go back to how it was so we're very in tune with how we treat each other now. Sure we have moments, but they don't last long. But to sit and say, "Why should I do it, blah blah" won't help. Be the change you want to see. If your spouse is not responsive, then make a choice. Life's too short.

ETA: He told me to put in here that he likes me to do the little things that keep our days going, and he likes to splurge and take me out because it's "funner". yes, he said "funner". :rofl: But oh, he does little things too like rub my feet and deals with the kids when he is home. He does work a lot. A lot more hours at work per day than i am. :thumbup: I don't mind keeping the house up because I am home by 2:45. He gets in around 6:30.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Juicer said:


> I have to make generalizations.
> There are exceptions to every rule. You are one. So am I.
> Do I sit around on the couch all day and eat chips? No.
> Did you need a man to save you? No.
> ...


True. I guess it depends on the reasons for divorce? If a husband is cheating on his wife and basically pulling the rug out from under her, which I am witnessing from a friend at this time, then eff him. That's just my opinion.

I am eating crackers right now. And sitting on the couch. H is eating chips. On the couch. Holy crap. We're doomed.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


Just to answer the basics of the first post. Together 20 years married 17.

She does not dress sexy. Only time I have seen her is a dress is for funerals. Long dress only, covering up her legs. Nothing low cut top wise to show off her greatest physical asset, her breasts. In fact she would like to get breast reduction surgery. She is a D cup but if she lost extra weight she would probably be a C cup. No high heals ect.

Take care of herself, hair yes and hygiene yes. Anything feminine not really, like lip stick ect. She is 80 lb's more now then when we met. She hates "being fat" but does nothing about it. If I go out to exercise I am being "selfish or vain."

Is she fun and social, yes to other people. I am at the bottom of things to worry about so she is not fun to me. She cares way too much what other people think of her and tries to please everybody. Everybody else thinks I am married to the most wonderful person in the world.

"Was she ever sexual?" Despite the boring clothes, yes she was very much before we got married. Clothes do not matter much to me after they come off so that never bothered me. She would surprise me with a bj while I drive. Sex on a trail in the woods ect. Really anyplace anytime.

"Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?" I bring the subject up all the time (about twice a month to once a week). She gets angry. She has told me that she knew sex was important to me, but she thought over time it would not be and she could change that in me. She was "pretending" those three years that we dated. Anyways sex is "over valued" and not important. Unless of course if I want to get it someplace else. She has not had an affair, does not look at porn or masturbate. I would say sex is not on her radar but since she clearly does everything to avoid it that would be untruthful. 

"I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't." Yeah me too. If sex is not important then why not give in every now and then? We are making each other miserable. :scratchhead:


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

that_girl said:


> To lose that would kill our marriage. Keeping score would kill our marriage. Pettiness almost DID kill our marriage. Dear god. We'll not go back to how it was so we're very in tune with how we treat each other now. Sure we have moments, but they don't last long. But to sit and say, "Why should I do it, blah blah" won't help. *Be the change you want to see. If your spouse is not responsive, then make a choice. Life's too short*.


The ending paragraph is my favorite part. 
I think you got it. Especially the bolded part. That is the big thing! 

And maybe that is what we should tell people when they post on here with problems about sex.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Earl Dibbles Jr said:


> How old are you and how long have you been married?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What would age have to do with it? I am a few days shy of 52, my wife just made 50, we will be married 18 years in December. We have two boys 11 and 13 (and the 13 year old is mentally challenged, he functions more like a 3 - 7 year old). We both work full time. We get busy 3 - 4 x a week. Caveat, we both are very conscientious about eating right and exercise and see this as a benefit toward keeping ones sex drive. 

Now I can understand a medical condition and/or taking certain medications hampering ones sexual desires. So I would suggest that if sex is a priority that this be addressed as a medical condition and consult a physician. Quality of life is just as important and quantity. Physicians are trained to deal even with these conditions.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

barcafan said:


> Hah I live here but no way in hell I'd get married here!


I've joked that if there is a next time, I'll make sure I do it in a common-law state.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

sinnister said:


> The assumption that men should take their wives out on dates or be spontaneous to regain what the once had is ...laughable.
> 
> I have just as many responsibilities as she does, why the F do I have to be the one to take on the responsibility of getting her to find me attractive again? If she does't want me, divorce me. Quit sticking around and sharing the bills, watching me take care of my fatherly and husbandly responsibilities and then check out when it comes to holding up the intimacy. That's infuriating.
> 
> ...


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


Good question. I was married for 18 years. I didn't have a sexless marriage, but it certainly wasn't frequent. My wife took care of herself. She wasn't overboard, but she certainly kept herself nice from head to toe. I wouldn't say she intentionally dressed "sexy," but certainly attractive. She liked cuddling on the couch while watching movies and like spooning in bed, holding hands, but she apparently never understood a sexual connection with this. I think we could have cuddled naked and she would have been happy with just the cuddle. 

We had sex more often when we first got married, but looking back, i would say she was never a really sexual person. I don't think she had a "need' for sex. For her, it was just a treat now and then, but nothing she could understand wanting to do on a frequent basis. 

I would describe her personality was sweet. She wasn't grouchy or controlling.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Has she had treatment for the abuse? Have you gone to therapy to understand whats going on with her?


Totally agree with her getting treatment. I have spoken to a couple of counselors on this - the consensus is that the abused must get therapy, as the abuse impacts many areas of life (not just sex).

As far as understanding, it depends on what you mean. He does need to appreciate the challenges she faces as a result of the abuse. But, she got married of her own free will. Thus, she needs to do the hard work to be capable of maintaining a strong sexual relationship.

He does need to be reasonably patient. He does not need to always be a slave to her triggers or settle for a bad sex life in order to relieve her burden. So, if that is what you mean by understanding her issues, I disagree.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Other than medical reasons... desire for sex is a matter of priorities. I feel sorry for the guys on here who are in a sexless marriage. It would appear that their wives don't see this as a priority. I don't know what to suggest other than to communicate how much of a priority sex is in a marriage. Divorce sounds like a draconian approach, but I can certainly sympathize with this reasoning. 

Sure I can see where dates nights would not necessarily equate to getting some "tail". Dates nights need be more than the just going out and then the conversation drifts to the usual; talking about the kids, work, etc. This is a chance to switch gears for a moment (reboot). So dates nights need to come with rules. It is in essence a chance to temporarily change the priorities. No text, no blogging, no answer calls (unless it is an emergency)... etc. No talking about work... If one goes out and the conversation meanders toward these usual items or one is busy on their iphone, this is not a date night. This is just going out. This is about priorities... and those needed to be communicated undisturbed and on a level equivalent to all the other normally important items of every day life.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sinnister said:


> The assumption that men should take their wives out on dates or be spontaneous to regain what the once had is ...laughable.
> 
> I have just as many responsibilities as she does, why the F do I have to be the one to take on the responsibility of getting her to find me attractive again? If she does't want me, divorce me. Quit sticking around and sharing the bills, watching me take care of my fatherly and husbandly responsibilities and then check out when it comes to holding up the intimacy. That's infuriating.
> 
> ...


I share your sentiment, but would express it differently.

I feel that (at least in my marriage) I had the lions share of the responsibility. I had to make sure the bills got paid every month (which means working longer hours and commuting more). That is on top of pulling at least 50% of the household burden (and generally more).

On top of that, I did the little things every day that she liked. She did not like gassing up her car, so I took care of it. Ditto for keeping the car serviced and clean. Ditto for making sure she had the money to maintain herself, etc. These are things she said were important to her. And I know she noticed them being done for her, because if they weren't done she would complain.

At that point - having provided a nice life _and_ done the little daily things just for her - I have _earned_ the sex life I seek. If she complains (after being supported and getting personalized attention she requests) that I am too needy, that is a symptom of a deeper problem. And, that underlying problem is that she expected to be more important to me, and thus expected all the pampering to come without cost to her.

I'll never put up with it again. I've known several women before my ex (and a few after) and know that most women are not like this. Most women like sex. And, most women appreciate the sacrifice it takes to treat them well and cheerfully reciprocate. Any future g/f or wife who is treated well but comes up short in the sex department will have three choices:

* Do more
* Expect less
* Leave


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## needguidance (Aug 17, 2012)

Theres nothing thats equals out to sexy with a guy doing laundry, cleaning, cooking. Yeah they are great qualities for any individual to have to be considered self sufficient but when I think of the guys who got the girl are the super heroes (fictional, law enforcement, military depending on the job, fire fighters), bad boys, athletes, entrepreneurs , and artist (music, painting, etc.). Hell some of the guys on her talk about how they ran the MAP or the 180, they look better, they get hit on by other women, they became more successful but the goal still wasn't reached, trying to attract your wife! I myself am starting to see it as a dead. You can't help or change a close minded person. If their belief is that its not important anymore or not on the priority list then it might be time to quit that day job in search of a new one. I just hate when I hear guys preach about MMSL. It is a really great book but even if you read a pick up artist they all state the same thing, confidence. You have to have confidence if you want to get the girl and you have to maintain it to keep her. What about when they just she's just not that into you anymore? Maybe that luster has worn off or maybe you hoodwinked? You thought you met this sexual beast that was open for business for a lifetime with exception of some horrific accident that caused brain damage or bodily injuries in the future. I think anybody that is in a sexless marriage was tricked. Either you are there sexually or not and people have a bad habit of trying to pretend to be someone they are not. Its sad especially when so much time gets invested. My favorite quote from Rocky, "You can't win" in his wife's voice. Deadly catch 22. I say try to find someone like you but its hard trying to see permanently if thats how they really are without investing time so a risk will always be taken. I myself and bent, don't know what else to do. Ive never been one to wait anything out. I know a friend of mine told me the best thing you can provide in a relationship is patience, an open mind, and honesty. I have the hardest time with patience. It such an asset but hard to achieve.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I guess these are the woman who have NOTHING before marriage? I was already set in my life. My husband was set. Neither of us having more than the other. In fact, I had the better place to live and better furniture/stuff. He had credit debt. lolol.


It's not that they have nothing before marriage. It's that they come to believe that they are sacrificing more than their husbands (marrying down) or that sharing their vaginas entitles them to some sort of compensation.

Do some women believe that "I had sex with you so you owe me" or "I shared myself with him so I deserve to be married and have his support"? Absolutely. It is gross, and pathetically sad.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

DTO said:


> At that point - having provided a nice life _and_ done the little daily things just for her - I have _earned_ the sex life I seek.


By the sheer virtue of getting married you earned sex. That is a right, and a responsibility, for both parties involved. A regular, satisfying sex life is a marital right.

At least that's how my wife and I saw it before we got married. If I felt like I needed to "earn" sex from my wife, I wouldn't have married her.

Glad you found your way eventually to higher ground DTO! Sounds like your first wife was a real nightmare.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DTO said:


> I share your sentiment, but would express it differently.
> 
> I feel that (at least in my marriage) I had the lions share of the responsibility. I had to make sure the bills got paid every month (which means working longer hours and commuting more). That is on top of pulling at least 50% of the household burden (and generally more).
> 
> ...


From the things you say here you did a lot of the nice things that as you say would earn your a good sex life. If your wife did not see this then you are better off without her. Some people just do not know when they have it good.

When it's advised that a guy do things to meet their wife's needs it's usually meant for a guy who is not doing much of anything.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jaquen said:


> By the sheer virtue of getting married you earned sex. That is a right, and a responsibility, for both parties involved. A regular, satisfying sex life is a marital right.
> 
> At least that's how my wife and I saw it before we got married. If I felt like I needed to "earn" sex from my wife, I wouldn't have married her.
> 
> Glad you found your way eventually to higher ground DTO! Sounds like your first wife was a real nightmare.


I agree that sex is part of marriage.

However it's also true that people have needs that if not met will turn off the love and the sexual desire. Both spouses need to treat each other in a manner that keeps the love and seuxal desire alive.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that sex is part of marriage.
> 
> However it's also true that people have needs that if not met will turn off the love and the sexual desire. Both spouses need to treat each other in a manner that keeps the love and seuxal desire alive.


To an extent, yes. I can't beat my wife and expect sex, and she can't verbally abuse me, or cheat, and then hop into bed with me.

But I can only talk for my marriage, and we do not withdraw sex, even in times of conflict. I know from first hand experience that you can not be at your best as a spouse, and sex can still continue. It just doesn't do me, or her, any good whatsoever to allow too many outside things to come between us sexually. Because a lack of sex just makes the issues even worse, and we both love sex. 

Really the only times in our marriage where sex has waned, and when I say waned I mean down to once a week, is when my wife's been dealing with some body image issues. And while I've been very patient with that, I just had to remind her recently that this behavior, even for that reason, has got to stop.

I can't speak for anyone else. But neither of us believe in taking sex off the menu for ANY reason, short of the person being physically incapable due to illness. It's fine to postpone temporarily, but going weeks, months, and God forbid, years without? Nope.

That was a basic understanding long before we got married. Sexlessness is a vow breaker.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

My wife and I dated for 3 years before marriage. We were virgins when married. I know, a mistake.

On our wedding night and the subsequent week's honeymoon I discovered she had a HUGE hangup about sex. That never had a chance to be an issue beforehand.

If I had known before the wedding what I know now it would have been a deal breaker.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Wow. So much negativity.
> 
> And as far as soulmates go, there are many out there for ya. Not just one.
> 
> ...


 I think part of the reason why people don't talk about sex before marriage, is because they assume it will always be there. If i could go back. I would tell my husband that he has to put out at least 2-3 times a week. I so want a redo


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> That's what I think is funny. *Men, while dating, are spontaneous and adventurous and have hobbies, etc. Then after marriage, they sit on the couch and eat. Then they slap your ass and honk your boob and that's supposed to make the wife swoon :rofl:*
> 
> I know I should say SOME or MOST, but since everything in this thread is about bashing women and marriage, I won't say SOME or MOST.
> 
> ...


 This is so true, at least it is in my case! Before marriage my husband had hobbies. Noe he just sits on the couch watching tv all the time. I have hobbies still. I guess he would rather sit on his ass and do nothing and he wonders why he is almost 300#'s


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

jaquen said:


> To an extent, yes. I can't beat my wife and expect sex, and she can't verbally abuse me, or cheat, and then hop into bed with me.
> 
> But I can only talk for my marriage, and we do not withdraw sex, even in times of conflict. I know from first hand experience that you can not be at your best as a spouse, and sex can still continue. It just doesn't do me, or her, any good whatsoever to allow too many outside things to come between us sexually. Because a lack of sex just makes the issues even worse, and we both love sex.
> 
> ...


 This is how marriage should be!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jaquen said:


> By the sheer virtue of getting married you earned sex. That is a right, and a responsibility, for both parties involved. A regular, satisfying sex life is a marital right.
> 
> At least that's how my wife and I saw it before we got married. If I felt like I needed to "earn" sex from my wife, I wouldn't have married her.
> 
> Glad you found your way eventually to higher ground DTO! Sounds like your first wife was a real nightmare.


That she was. And I'm glad you emphasized that the right is to satisfying sex, not just some sex. It's a significant difference that some people like to pretend does not exist.

I want to clarify (before I get skewered) that I acknowledge my ex had CSA issues. It's horrible to have to endure that and I'm sensitive to the issues that causes. But, besides that, she was just mean and manipulative. It's one thing to have that issue; it's quite another to lie about it and insist that you are entitled to have your spouse accomodate it.


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## studley (Oct 19, 2011)

" Does she dress sexy?"

About the same as always although since she has gained a lot of weight recently, she does not appear as sexy.

" Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? 

Goes to the hairdresser & has manicures/pedicures twice a month.

"What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)?" 

ABout the same as always

" Was she ever sexual?"

For the first 40 years yes, sex usually once or twice a week But mostly at my initiation. .

" Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?

Not any more. After trying to initiate sex several times in a row a few years ago with no response I just gave up. Her other activities (reading and doing puzzles for example) are just more important.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

There are definitely ups and downs in sex drive but for most of our marriage, there's been enough mutual respect and desire to please the other so it wasn't a hang up. 

My husband was talking about a friend of his who had been complaining that he hadn't been able to get his wife to have sex with him for 2 or 3 months. Hubby made it abundantly clear he would never settle for that nor would he expect me to.

Fast forward to a back surgery gone wrong for hubby. This means every time we have sex, he has increased chronic pain (regardless of position) for a few days. I literally would feel guilty for initiating anything. He then felt awkward about initiating. So, we didn't. He gets depressed, I get depressed. When we finally get to the heart of the matter and talk, he tells me that he'd rather go through the few days of pain for the intimacy and enjoyment of sex than be depressed and lonely. 

Now, if we hadn't had that discussion - where would things be? 

I don't think a lot of married couples NOT having sex really talk about the issue frankly and directly.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

ladybird said:


> I think part of the reason why people don't talk about sex before marriage, is because they assume it will always be there. If i could go back. I would tell my husband that he has to put out at least 2-3 times a week. I so want a redo


I agree. I got married in my early 20s and didn't talk about sex at all, at least not about attitudes and expectations. To be honest, I don't know that I gave sex much thought as far as the possibility that it might be a conflicting issue some day. I was naive enough to think that sex was just a normal part of a marriage that two people in love wanted to do regularly; I didn't realize it could be so complicated. It never dawned on me to ask, "What is your view of sex?" "Do you feel it is an important part of marriage?" If I had it to do over, I would have discussed it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ok, my rant..........
I’ll talk about my wife prior to her affairs when it wasn’t a part of ‘why’ we were nearly sexless. By nearly sexless I mean less than 10 times a year and irregular. Like sex twice in a week, then nothing for four months. It wasn’t that my wife wasn’t sexual... On the contrary. It drove me crazy that she’d dress the part, joke in groups and make sexual innuendoes about our sex life being ‘wild’ (like joking about handcuffs and such). The reality was much, much different... Always an excuse ‘not’ to have sex ‘tonight’. 

I tried like hell. That was actually part of the problem. A begging man isn’t attractive. And this is really what sex is all about; She needs to be attracted to me.

So I lol at the bait and switch. Prior to her, I had friends, a social life, and a lot of hobbies. Then she started “molding”. The excuses why I shouldn’t go out with my friends. The friends she didn’t trust. The complaints and boredom about when I took her out with those friends (“you ignored me” sort of whining). Ditto from my friends when I made them feel like a third wheel stuck on a date with my wife. So, I stopped doing that and focused on becoming a responsible husband and my career. 

Hobbies? Same deal... racing cars is too expensive and time consuming. “How long are you going to take refinishing that table? How long am I going to have to live in this construction site without a kitchen you are remodeling?” She sucked the joy out of these things, added guilt and shame, and made them chores. The only “safe” spot left was watching tv with her or doing ‘her things’ with her.... She didn’t have ‘her things’ beyond watching ‘her shows’ and expecting me to ‘entertain her’ (incapable of self entertainment for some reason). I’ve always wondered what she’d do if she was stuck alone in a sparkling house without internet, angry birds or tv... probably go insane trying to figure out ‘what to do’ when she finished grooming and buffing herself.

At the same time, only “obvious” passes got attention. She no longer felt she had to “seduce”... She just sat back and waited for the pass dumping the whole sexual relationship on my shoulders. Even started wearing the baggy sweats and flannel grandma pj’s. “Oooh... how hot!” isn’t a shock she never heard those words come out of my mouth as she’s putting in the mouth guard and telling me how chunky her monthly was before bed. Attraction works both ways...

Yet, I have urges that can’t be denied. Don’t have sex for a week, and I’ll bet most men will go ahead and make a pass regardless of whether you are ‘putting it out there’ that you might be interested. And the whining about dates..... Seriously women, you complain like hell if I take you out for a fun night with “my degenerate friends” and want the ‘just us’ time. Then you complain that it gets stale with the same old dinner and movie. I have to get creative... then that gets old or expensive or takes a serious effort. And that’s before kids and babysitter issues. When did your veejayjay become unobtainium? Sorry, but I’m not gonna shell out a couple months salary so you can go somewhere exotic just so I can get some sex... That bar is a bit too high. The nice house, cars, loving husband, stable life, etc... they aren’t “valued” by her; They are “expected”. So... when you devalue me that much, you should sort of expect I’m only going to muster honking your breast.... but no... you want a trip to Italy, a bigger house, for me to finally put my dirty laundry in the bin, etc. You’ve made these requirements for ‘attraction’.

To me, it isn’t shocking at all that our sex life died. It takes two to have sex. When you dump the entire responsibility of the romantic side of the relationship on just one person, and completely just sit back and grade them on a pass/fail basis (which also has weird stuff in it like “Did he do his chores?”)... this isn’t shocking at all that eventually I’d tire of the moving target and growing list of what it takes to get you “in the mood”. 

So, I found other things to distract me. Career, kids, computer gaming, etc. “Bait and switch” works both ways dear. I remember when just going out for a couple beers, a few laughs, a nice video were enough to ‘get you in the mood’. And you were a tiger in bed. Those things today wouldn’t get me a simple spoon while going to sleep... you’d be too pissed off that we didn’t go to the restaurant that your friend said is wonderful and romantic. I failed you!?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> I don't think a lot of married couples NOT having sex really talk about the issue frankly and directly.


That I will agree with. More precisely, I would say that the LD spouse resists the efforts of the HD spouse to talk about the issue frankly and directly. I recall getting my ex to level with me honestly was like pulling teeth.

My take is that people don't talk about their sexlessness for the same reason that they don't disclose their dislike of sex prior to marriage. These people understand that whatever they have to say is likely to reflect badly on them and might trigger some adverse consequences.

Seriously - think about it. It's a highly charged, contentious topic that some people just avoid to minimize hassles. Also, if the anecdotes on TAM are any indication, most of these issues take place when the LD partner has the attitude of "I just don't want you anymore / never did want you, don't really care to put in the effort to fix it, and would rather do anything else most days".

The LD spouse knows an honest conversation - where that truth comes out - probably is going to cost him or her somehow. So the LD person resists having this talk and endangering what he or she values from the relationship.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Racer said:


> ...and telling me how chunky her monthly was before bed.


Sometimes I just skim the long posts. Then, sometimes I don't just skim, but wish I had; this is one of those times.

As far as the rest of the post, I agree with your perspective. I would go further and note that part of putting the whole load on the husband sometimes involves expecting him to be content with whatever she does provide.

As in "well, at least you're getting something".


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

DTO said:


> Totally agree with her getting treatment. I have spoken to a couple of counselors on this - the consensus is that the abused must get therapy, as the abuse impacts many areas of life (not just sex).
> 
> As far as understanding, it depends on what you mean. He does need to appreciate the challenges she faces as a result of the abuse. But, she got married of her own free will. Thus, she needs to do the hard work to be capable of maintaining a strong sexual relationship.
> 
> He does need to be reasonably patient. He does not need to always be a slave to her triggers or settle for a bad sex life in order to relieve her burden. So, if that is what you mean by understanding her issues, I disagree.


I meant understand as in understand why he is in this particular "dance" with his wife.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

....and understand why he is attracted to a woman who is unavailable


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I meant understand as in understand why he is in this particular "dance" with his wife.


You mean as in why did he marry her / what part might he have played in attracting someone with this mindset? If so, I agree.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Won't share my story, just gonna say this thread was a painful read... thank goodness the ex is long gone.

I now believe that someone not having sex is marital abandonment absent physical or abuse issues. And I will make that very clear if I ever get interested enough to consider marriage again.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> ....and understand why he is attracted to a woman who is unavailable


In my case I never knew about her hangup and unavailabilty until 5 hours after the wedding.

To be fair, I don't think she was aware of the hangup until then either since we abstained from pre-marital sex. And I also lost most of the affection we shared before marriage.

I stayed, simply put, because I loved her and kept thinking, hoping and trying to make her change/get help to change.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

One of the reasons I'm afraid to get married again is because of the sex.
I don't want to be legally strapped to a man who turns into a different person after we get married...happened to me once and I'm not too keen on having it happen to me again.
My pride cost me the house I helped build into a home,it cost me the vacation house I helped make beautiful,and a whole lot of other things. I refused to take anything when I left since it was my choice to leave him rather than trying to spend my life with someone who had become a stranger in life and in the bedroom.The thought of being intimate with the person he had become was really unpleasant.
I'd hate to have to start all over again for the second time.

I'll date the heck out of ya. but marriage? I'm not so sure.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

All these questions and sometimes I just have to ask...Do women really like sex? lol


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

aston said:


> All these questions and sometimes I just have to ask...Do women really like sex? lol


i don't think it's about disliking it.I think it's about whether or not it's on the list of priorities.there are LD men in addition to those LD women who don't add sex to the list of priorities.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I kind of understand where SB is coming from. Read enough TAM threads and even as a male it would scare me to think about the prospect of marriage if I were single. Sorry for the thread jack


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> i don't think it's about disliking it.I think it's about whether or not it's on the list of priorities.there are LD men in addition to those LD women who don't add sex to the list of priorities.


Packed your sweater yet?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

" Does she dress sexy?"

Yes, cowboy boots and all.

" Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? 

She goes to gym basically daily, and looks fantastic.

"What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)?" 

Social butterfly

" Was she ever sexual?"

Yes, but not as much as "normal". 

" Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?

Often... next conversation in January or when she brings it up.

I'd say its 50%+ actual tired and <50% resentment. Gradually the resentment will fade not sure what to do with the tired aspect... but we managed it before.

Hope it works out by my deadline shes got one more year basically.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Racer said:


> Ok, my rant..........
> I’ll talk about my wife prior to her affairs when it wasn’t a part of ‘why’ we were nearly sexless. By nearly sexless I mean less than 10 times a year and irregular. Like sex twice in a week, then nothing for four months. It wasn’t that my wife wasn’t sexual... On the contrary. It drove me crazy that she’d dress the part, joke in groups and make sexual innuendoes about our sex life being ‘wild’ (like joking about handcuffs and such). The reality was much, much different... Always an excuse ‘not’ to have sex ‘tonight’.
> 
> I tried like hell. That was actually part of the problem. A begging man isn’t attractive. And this is really what sex is all about; She needs to be attracted to me.
> ...




Take out the race car and you got my life brother. My stbx (she left me) told me sex was a major priority to her. We lived together for a year. During that time she 'molded' me (we are older by the way she was 49 and I was 47). She then started the ultimatums. "I can't just shack up with you. If we don't get married I am moving out." By then I had rung up some debt 'pleasing' her demands so I caved and married. Then she started cheating... found out later she cheated on everyone she has ever been with. I married an emotioanlly abusive wife that basically destroyed us like she has destroyed every other guy she's been with.. and guys, she out there right now trolling for her next victim.. she is finacially independant and loves to hurt men.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> i don't think it's about disliking it.I think it's about whether or not it's on the list of priorities.there are LD men in addition to those LD women who don't add sex to the list of priorities.


That does not quite describe the issue though.

Not having it as a priority might explain why someone does not initiate. It does not explain why someone would refuse and not meet their spouse's need, insofar as everyone has enough time to have good sex (provided that both spouses are actually home at night).


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DTO said:


> It does not explain why someone would refuse and not meet their spouse's need, insofar as everyone has enough time to have good sex (provided that both spouses are actually home at night).


it does.if sex isn't a priority,you'll never have time for it in your mind.There will ALWAYS be something else more important that needs to be done whether it's catching up on the latest episode of your favorite show,reading that next chapter in the awesome book you started,etc.When you make sex a priority then nothing else is more important in your night...that tv show will have reruns,that book isn't going anywhere and can be read while waiting for a doctor appt or whatever.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> it does.if sex isn't a priority,you'll never have time for it in your mind.There will ALWAYS be something else more important that needs to be done whether it's catching up on the latest episode of your favorite show,reading that next chapter in the awesome book you started,etc.When you make sex a priority then nothing else is more important in your night...that tv show will have reruns,that book isn't going anywhere and can be read while waiting for a doctor appt or whatever.


That isn't a problem with sex not being a priority - which is a simple personal preference.

That is more a prblem with your spouse and your marriage not being a priority. You are putting yourself above them (probably fairly regularly if it's a problem). That is a character and respect issue.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DTO said:


> That isn't a problem with sex not being a priority - which is a simple personal preference.
> 
> That is more a prblem with your spouse and your marriage not being a priority. You are putting yourself above them (probably fairly regularly if it's a problem). That is a character and respect issue.


We'll agree to disagree. I feel it's putting sex last to LD's because they may put their spouse and their marriage as a priority in ALL ways EXCEPT sex...you don't see it that way. So no use in going back and forth about it because I'm not looking to make you see things how I see them.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

I do think some of this is purely biological. I'm a LD woman (right now at least) and I hope this changes. Due to medication, breastfeeding, lack of climaxing, etc...I have very little physical desire to have sex. For a woman with a true LD, it sometimes takes extra "work" to place sex on the front burner. 

I believe it's always on the front burner for my husband because he gets so much out of it. He's guaranteed an orgasm every time we have sex. He craves sex physically. I don't crave sex in the same way he does. Now, I know this is not the case for many (or most) women, but it certainly is for some.

In the midst of my hectic life, I have to remind myself that sex is important and make it a priority (even if I don't necessarily "feel" like it). Even if I don't physically crave sex, I know it's important to my husband, and I see that it brings us closer. However, I also understand why many women lose sight of this. It is easy to do. I'm not saying it is right, but I still understand it from a LD perspective. This is why communication (along with valuing the other person's needs) is so important in marriage.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

aston said:


> All these questions and sometimes I just have to ask...Do women really like sex? lol


I love sex with my husband


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I love sex with my husband


My wife expresses the same sentiment.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

drerio said:


> My wife expresses the same sentiment.


Until a 7 ft tall black guy named Tyrone moves next door:lol:....just kidding


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

aston said:


> Until a 7 ft tall black guy named Tyrone moves next door:lol:....just kidding


My wife prefers closer to the native soil.  

Surrounded by muscular Polynesian makes Tyrone is a poor choice.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

drerio said:


> My wife prefers closer to the native soil.
> 
> Surrounded by muscular Polynesian makes Tyrone is a poor choice.


I'm just messing with you man lol


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

aston said:


> I'm just messing with you man lol


I know you are... Once you have had native Hawaiian a woman forgets anyone else


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

drerio said:


> I know you are... Once you have had native Hawaiian a woman forgets anyone else


oh yea? hmmmmm I thought that about the french


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

aston said:


> oh yea? hmmmmm I thought that about the french


Maybe about these French speaking people

http://youtu.be/BO3UB0nDduc


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

drerio said:


> Maybe about these French speaking people
> 
> The OuLaLa girls from Papara Tahiti - YouTube


LOL no.....HAW HAW you got jokes lol


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> We'll agree to disagree. I feel it's putting sex last to LD's because they may put their spouse and their marriage as a priority in ALL ways EXCEPT sex...you don't see it that way. So no use in going back and forth about it because I'm not looking to make you see things how I see them.


I suppose we shall do just that.

But, consider this (and keep in mind I went through this) - I (and most men) did not suffer in silence regarding the lack of sex. I made my needs and dissatisfaction known.

This was not an issue of "out of sight, out of mind" where I had let it drop and my ex went about her day. She was able to hear and see me complain about the lack of sex, yet consciously choose to disregard me and go on with other things.

Now, your response that a wife may feel she emphasizes her marriage in other areas makes my point. Because that translates to "I do plenty for him, so I can blow off the sex".

Any way you slice it, she is choosing to hear me state a need and deciding my need is not as important as whatever else she has going on. That is the epitome of a respect and character issue.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TG, 
totally agree and am going to pile on in this direction:
Most of the men on here in sexless marriages can check one or more of the following boxes as TRUE. This whole bit about being a victim of the system is a bit much. Let's be real: during the first decade and prior to kids, his financial exposure was small. 

1. They wanted to marry her so much that they avoided hard, firm discussions about expectations and boundaries before the wedding
2. They ignored the giant red flags that showed she was steadily moving them towards a less sexual relationship and also one where he was overall getting deprioritized 
3. Before the first child, it was already bad. After the first child it got so much worse. And yet there were more children. 
4. He was never willing or able to enforce a boundary in this area
5. More importantly he simply wasn't willing to stop doing what she wanted

This guy has a thread. Their sex life is awful for 10 years. Then she wants a child. They go to sex therapy for 3 weeks. He says it was very successful. He means they had sex a few times and she became pregnant. The sex immediately stopped. That is not on her. He knew exactly what was happening.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> I am still trying to wrap my mind around sexless marriages. I get it, but at the same time I don't.
> 
> So if you are in a sexless marriage (or the sex is infrequent) what is your wife like? Does she dress sexy? Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?


Married 21 years. We had an active sex life while dating and after first getting married. Like others said though, the signs were there for me. I was just blind. She never once initiated it. Not one time that I can remember. And frequently would turn me down. She's pretty selfish and rarely thinks about others. After kids it stopped completely. At this point we're both so disgusted with each other we don't even want physical contact from the other. It was never something she "needed" like I do. In her mind it's "I don't want it so I'm not having it." No matter how it affects anyone else or our marriage. And I honestly think her mom tells her that's ok and she should be that way. "Do what's best for you" attitude, all others be damned.

She never dressed sexy. Very conservative. Wouldn't do it anywhere but in the bedroom under the sheets with the lights dim. She's very pretty, thin, great smile, never says a mean word to anyone. Everyone thinks she's the sweetest person in the world. Everyone that doesn't know our problems thinks we're the perfect family.

And there's only two reasons I'm still there; my kids, and $$$. I'll be writing her checks for the rest of my life if we divorce.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

drerio said:


> I know you are... Once you have had native Hawaiian a woman forgets anyone else


Is that because he hits her head too hard on the coconut palm?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> Married 21 years. We had an active sex life while dating and after first getting married. Like others said though, the signs were there for me. I was just blind. She never once initiated it. Not one time that I can remember. And frequently would turn me down. She's pretty selfish and rarely thinks about others. After kids it stopped completely. At this point we're both so disgusted with each other we don't even want physical contact from the other. It was never something she "needed" like I do. In her mind it's "I don't want it so I'm not having it." No matter how it affects anyone else or our marriage. And I honestly think her mom tells her that's ok and she should be that way. "Do what's best for you" attitude, all others be damned.
> 
> She never dressed sexy. Very conservative. Wouldn't do it anywhere but in the bedroom under the sheets with the lights dim. She's very pretty, thin, great smile, never says a mean word to anyone. Everyone thinks she's the sweetest person in the world. Everyone that doesn't know our problems thinks we're the perfect family.
> 
> And there's only two reasons I'm still there; my kids, and $$$. *I'll be writing her checks for the rest of my life if we divorce.*


Write fewer checks now. Your relationship has gone into 'pay for service anyway'. Get the lowest price you can.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Beach, 
The entire reason you're in this spot is lack of boundaries. 

I don't mean: fvck me or I am divorcing you boundaries 

I mean simple stuff like:
- if you won't sleep with me and
- won't do MC 
Then
You need to work nights and weekends while I watch the kids

Your real issue is you have never been willing to risk denying her anything. 

Fear has a unique odor - not am aphrodisiac. 

After the first money conversation - where she realized she would have to get a job - she would have made an effort to make it work for both of you.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

1 what is your wife like? 

She feels strongly. She can be very happy, funny, goofy, energetic, outgoing. I also discovered that she can be very anxious, irritable, hold grudges, steamrolls, has difficulty considering other's opinions.

2 Does she dress sexy? 

She can, but not always. 

3 Take care of herself (hair, skin, body etc)? 

She takes care of herself. She always had a slender and athletic build. After the baby, she filled out more and looks curvier in a very good way! 

4 What is her personality like (is she fun, silly, social etc)? 

see question 1 

5 Was she ever sexual? Is sex just never discussed between the two of you?

She was always sexual but would also have minor dry spells here and there. We had good sex, but she was never really adventurous. She doesn't like pleasuring me for the sake of doing so, even though I'd love to do that for her. She doesn't like me going down on her even though I love doing that. She's also grossed out by fluids, so a bj without a condom is not happening.


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