# Communication during the 180



## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

My wife and I are separated and actual divorce proceedings are pending. We share the kids 50/50 and I am doing my 180. Our communication is good and friendly/cordial but only about kids and the logistics of setting up our two homes, we have not spoken about the relationship for a few months (basically she is a WAW).

My question is, am I supposed to simply never talk about the relationship or express feelings while in the 180? During the day to day, OK I understand. But does this mean also not writing a letter? Or touching on some subject if together and the moment seems right? (like expressing regret about certain things, or communicating understanding about past errors)


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

From my experience .. it does no good, she is also a WAW.

I've sent 3 things in the last 3 or so months.

1 was an email, where I expressed to her my own 'revelations' so to speak about myself. It had nothing to do with begging for her to come back etc .. never got a response.

The other 2 were texts, 1 never got a response and the 2nd one (about 3 weeks ago) did.

Her response? The next morning she told me she thought she made it clear, it was over between us and we were getting a divorce.

Now, in all this time I started doing the 180, also worked on NC (went a week or 2 here and there not contacting each other).

At first I started to not respond to her texts right away, give it a few hours or so. Sometimes if she text me later in the day I wouldn't respond until the morning.

She noticed this, commented on it. I told her I had been busy, she now does the same to me.

I also stopped saying hi and bye all the time when she dropped the kids off (we also have 50/50). I wasn't a jerk, but the fact is, we aren't together and I was just happy to see the kids or sad to say bye to them.

She also noticed this, commented on it. Wanted me to act all cheery in front of the kids. Then she started doing the same thing afterwards.

In my experience, no. There is no point in doing a letter, email, text, etc.

They don't want to hear it, there is a reason she is a WAW and that reason alone will hinder her from wanting or caring about what you have to say in regards to the relationship.


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## LostandSad (Feb 13, 2013)

I have noticed this to be correct. I texted WH with two long, very specific texts explaining how I feel about certain things, and one taking responsibility for my part in the marriage going bad.

No response.

He doesnt care. Dday and DDay +1 he was crying and wanting to come back home. Must have gotten lucky on some fishing expeditions.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Talking about the relationship is fine. Just don't initiate. 

She walked away. It's up to her to start that conversation. If she doesn't, she doesn't want to talk about it bad enough. You trying to get her to is needy. Needy is unattractive. 

Of course this is different if you have not previously made your stance clear. You start the 180 after that and the 180 may push her away. It is for you, not to bring her back.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Seems like, in my own experience and in others, a WAW has their mind made up, period, end of story. You will not be able to reason or talk them out of it, you will not be able to nice them back. In their mind the marriage is done, over, finished, failed, and they are running for the greener grass...and the more you chase, the faster they run.

Why would you _want_ to try to talk about your relationship with a person in this mindset? There's no point to it, and it's so harmful - both to your ego (because she will ignore it or reject it, hurting your further), and to your already slim chances of reconciliation (making her run away faster).

I know how hard it is to swallow what you want to say. In your mind, it's all so amazingly clear - the things you did wrong, the ways you've changed, the revelations about yourself. You just _know_ that if she were to try again, you'd make each other happy. And you see her running away from this and you desperately want to tell her all of this, cling to her, make her see what you see in your mind's eye. If you could just get her to see that, she'd snap out of it, and come home, and everything would be even better than before.

I know the feeling. But they have to want to come back. That's why you wait for them to come to you. You will never be able to just beat her over the head with all of this until she submits, and even if you could, is that really the way you'd want to get her back? Don't you want her to come back because _she_ wants to, because _she_ realized, on her own, that she's making the biggest mistake of her life?




> 1 was an email, where I expressed to her my own 'revelations' so to speak about myself. It had nothing to do with begging for her to come back etc .. never got a response.
> 
> The other 2 were texts, 1 never got a response and the 2nd one (about 3 weeks ago) did.
> 
> ...


Sounds so similar. I wrote the emails, got little response, didn't change anything. Although for a couple days, it did seem to make her waiver for a second...her absolute "we're done, I want a D" turned into "I don't want to be with you right now", "I want to find myself", "if we get back together I'll move wherever you're moving to"...setting up some glimmer of hope. Then a few days later I pressed on it, and drove her right back to where we started - "I've made it very, very clear that we are through."

So that didn't work. Go 180. Would get texts from her, and whether they're business related or not, wouldn't answer for a few hours, or the next day (we have no kids, so there was nothing critical to talk about). She just started to do the same thing back to me, and it probably annoys me more than my delays were annoying her.

I'm not sure there is a "correct" way to deal with a WAW, besides just detaching and moving on. Chasing them obviously does nothing. And the 180 appears to have little to no effect. That said, it's still the best option available, and if nothing else, it helps the left behind to detach and move on, even as we're clinging to the hope that our walk aways will someday come back.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Sounds so similar. I wrote the emails, got little response, didn't change anything. Although for a couple days, it did seem to make her waiver for a second...her absolute "we're done, I want a D" turned into "I don't want to be with you right now", "I want to find myself", "if we get back together I'll move wherever you're moving to"...setting up some glimmer of hope. Then a few days later I pressed on it, and drove her right back to where we started - "I've made it very, very clear that we are through."


Yep. mine made this transition within an hour in counseling. 

She started with "I never wanted divorce, only separation". 

Counselor encouraged me to share my feelings. I did.

Before session ended she said, "the divorce is set in stone".

Now that papers are filed she said she regrets signing them. Oh well.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I sent a text to my H when I was on a trip, because something reminded me of him. I know it was a weak moment but I thought, what the hell. I said "I'm at _________ and thinking of you, and I miss you."

He texted me back saying "Sometimes I miss you too." Not what I was expecting but it didn't make me feel any better because I know he's done. 

Still, I don't regret sending it. I think these break ups are messy enough that if there is some good sentiment to share, and you're NOT EXPECTING IT TO CHANGE ANYTHING, you could just share it. YOu might get a really ****ty response though so be prepared for that. 

But if it's getting close to the point where you're throwing in the towel (I know the 180 says never give up, but seriously you have to move on...wait does it mean never give up the 180? ha ha) -- could it really hurt to get your feelings out and share them, like in a letter? A "here's the full deal, and now I'm moving on" letter? Just to get it off your chest? They may not read it or even respond harshly, but if it's what you need to do for closure, I'd say go for it. But NOT at the stage where you're still hoping it will change anything. Cause it won't. 

Especially if you have kids and ultimately, somewhere out there, want to have a passably "good" co-parenting relationship, sending a letter that is honest but (mostly) kind might just lodge somewhere in the WA's psyche so that someday, in some way, there's a tiny bit of forgiveness and understanding there. Call me an idealist, but I like to think it's possible. Or, kill them with kindness?

(Mind you, some of the letters I compose to my H in my head are absolute raging hate letters. Not sure if I'll ever write and send those ones!)


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

In general the 180 is very hard to adhere to. You are on an emotional roller coaster and you are supposed to keep a straight face. Scratch that - a confident face. It's very hard to do and I think we tend to come off as standoffish. 

And then when they try to initiate conversation about the relationship, you've become guarded by that point. You don't want to let down your defenses so that they fish and see how you're really feeling.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> could it really hurt to get your feelings out and share them, like in a letter? A "here's the full deal, and now I'm moving on" letter? Just to get it off your chest?


My advice, based on my experience (so what do I know?) is only to make an "it's over" statement if you really mean it. Absolutely, 100% and without doubt. 

My WAW made it very clear that she had done with me - wanted out, didn't want reconciliation or counselling, etc. But then when I discovered her EA and confronted her over it I angrily said "we're done" Now she keeps throwing it back in my face and telling me that I was the one who declared it over and said that we should lead separate lives. Just gives her another excuse, another spoke for the victim wheel that she's riding around on, another barrier to her coming out of the fog. 

Maybe write it, leave it for a week, and then re-read it.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

staystrong said:


> In general the 180 is very hard to adhere to. You are on an emotional roller coaster and you are supposed to keep a straight face. Scratch that - a confident face. It's very hard to do and I think we tend to come off as standoffish. .


I came across as a psycho in a quiet but menacing rage. 

I was beating myself up for having pushed her away and possibly missed an opportunity to reconcile.....until I realised that she was always on an exit trajectory and anything I did actually had very little effect on her. I just didn't realise that it would take her a while to go through her own process to move towards the door.


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