# Guidance needed



## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

My wife and I (married 13yrs with 3 kids under 10) have been at odds over the last month. She basically blew up at me saying she feels like a single parent. Says I'm a great provider, but when I home, I'm checked out. She is partially correct. We've had this talk many times over the years. In my mind I was doing the right thing, but in hers, her spirit was closing and her heart was hardening. I love her very much. I have apologized, asked God to forgive me and I've accepted my down falls as a husband and father. I made a promise to make it better and have. She's even stated she's noticed a good change. She just can't seem to understand why it's taken me so long. So...as these weeks pass, I continue to work on being a better man to my family. However, her anger still persists. Not only that, she is still cold, distant and un affectionate. I have noticed over the past few weeks she's been spending an excessive amount of time on her cell phone. Buying new clothes and stuff...working out a lot more and other personal beautification things that haven't been a priority until recently. She denies an EA or PA, but my mind wanders....Where do I start to see if she's actually found someone else since she denies it.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Read this specific post on using a voice activated recorder:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...regnant-i-think-hes-cheating.html#post9322130

Since she's closely guarding her phone, you'll need to catch her conversations.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you looked at her cell phone bill, as a starting point?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Covert monitoring. You have enough red flags to warrant it.

VAR (voice activated recorder) under the front seat of her car.

Key logger on her home computer.

Checking her on-line cell phone records for unknown, or frequent texts/calls.

Installing spyware on her cell phone.

All these are options and you can get a lot of advice here on that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

What kind of phone does she use?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Bluff.....tell her you know all about it with a fake hidden app and ask if she wants to talk about it before it all gets exposed to friends and family. My buddy did this.....his wife screwed 3 guys in 6 days with an immediate confession. Not what he was expecting. He thought she just kissed a co-worker.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Bad idea trying to bluff. It may have worked for your friend, but all it usually does is let them know you are suspicious, and makes it that much harder to find the truth. Most WS will take it to the grave without solid proof, and some still deny even with proof in front of them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep, get real, solid evidence because most cheaters will only admit to what the BS actually finds out.

Put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car. Use adhesive backed Velcro to secure it to a hidden surface, like to the bottom of the driver's seat. See what she's talking about and with whom on the cell as she drivers. Most cheaters today use their car like a private phone booth. Leave the VAR in there for a few days and then see what you get.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I doubt you have done anything so terrible that you needed to ask God for forgiveness. What does your wife do for work? She has you trained pretty well. She says jump you ask how high. That's red flag number one. Subtlety start to paint you as a bad guy. A bad father, a bad husband. This then starts to retroactively justify her bad behavior. Half dozen other red flags too. Can you grab her phone when she is in the privy or asleep? 

There is a user here "weightlifter" who has a standard, lengthy post with many many great suggestions on surveillance. You can search his name and find it easily. But rule number one is to KEEP QUIET and do not say anything to her about suspicions. If you tip her off she will never let her guard down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

you know nothing yet, so dont go jumping to conclusions. You can check things out, like gps her car, and see if anything is amiss, but DONT accuse her of anything without solid proof.

It could simply be that you were neglecting your family for a long time, she put up with it for a while, then finally blew her lid--one straw too many for the camel's back. That is NOT going to blow over in a few weeks. YOu need a solid year of being a model dad. Take the kids out every saturday for fun, give her some time off. See if her attitude changes.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

been here, done that. your story sounds EXACTLY like mine.

the new clothes, the working out, the phone on lock down are all HUGE red flags that SCREAM of an affair.

oh, yeah, and the mental rush she gets from the OM allows her in her mind to re-write history and blame you for all sorts of shortcomings. you don't give her the high that the OM does, and in her mind this is how she justifies doing what she is doing.

you can bury your head and pretend this is happening. or you can dig deep and get to the truth.

start with the phone bill, see who she is texting and calling. look at other social media accounts she has. VAR her car. pay close attention to where she says she is going. example, "i'm going with my girlfriend so and so out to dinner at XYZ joint"......betting you wont find a credit card charge as the OM picks up the tab......

lots of ways to find this stuff, you just have to now open your eyes and see it.

sorry you are here.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Great advice form everyone - except DO NOT try to bluff her. She will suss you out pretty quickly then take it all underground - making your "job" 10x more difficult.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> I have noticed over the past few weeks she's been spending an excessive amount of time on her cell phone. Buying new clothes and stuff...working out a lot more and other personal beautification things that haven't been a priority until recently.


This is all I needed.

Every time I see these things listed, something is going on. Surveillance is necessary.


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## Anomnom (Jun 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> She just can't seem to understand why it's taken me so long. So...as these weeks pass, I continue to work on being a better man to my family. However, her anger still persists. Not only that, she is still cold, distant and unaffectionate.


Why did it take you so long to make changes? She's angry at you for not taking action sooner and saving the marriage. Now you're making changes, it's too late, she's already checked out of the marriage by the sounds of it. 

Agree it sounds like she's met someone else and getting in shape/taking more interest in her physical appearance.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Anomnom said:


> Why did it take you so long to make changes? She's angry at you for not taking action sooner and saving the marriage. Now you're making changes, it's too late, she's already checked out of the marriage by the sounds of it.
> 
> Agree it sounds like she's met someone else and getting in shape/taking more interest in her physical appearance.


You are assuming he is correct in thinking he hasn't been doing a decent job at home. What we usually find is he is a nice guy that his wife is blaming him for why she is cheating.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Is her threatening to leave no longer an issue? It was less than an hour before you started this thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ibly-leaving-harboring-anger.html#post9372210


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> First...I have my doubts to the legitimacy of this thread....
> 
> and second...I don't understand how the first thing that pops into many minds here is cheating...
> 
> ...


Why are you so offended ? 9 times out of ten this .......

_However, her anger still persists. Not only that, she is still cold, distant and un affectionate. I have noticed over the past few weeks she's been spending an excessive amount of time on her cell phone. Buying new clothes and stuff...working out a lot more and other personal beautification things that haven't been a priority until recently_

means what we all fear it means. 

Why deny it? I don't understand.

This is posted in the coping with Infidelity forum. the chance s of it having some some completely different much more positive background are small. Why should anyone get all dramatic about it.

It is what it is and nearly always means what we in the end fear it will mean. Hopefully you are right and on this occasion it will not be the case, fingers crossed .

I know where I'd put my money


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> My wife and I (married 13yrs with 3 kids under 10) have been at odds over the last month. She basically blew up at me saying she feels like a single parent. Says I'm a great provider, but when I home, I'm checked out.


What was her sexual history before she started looking for a beta-provider? What was your sexual history? Is she about 33-36 or thereabouts?



unforgiven1 said:


> She is partially correct. We've had this talk many times over the years. In my mind I was doing the right thing, but in hers, her spirit was closing and her heart was hardening. I love her very much.


When did she start dragging on the sex?



unforgiven1 said:


> I have apologized, asked God to forgive me and I've accepted my down falls as a husband and father.


Do you both attend church or just you?



unforgiven1 said:


> I made a promise to make it better and have. She's even stated she's noticed a good change. She just can't seem to understand why it's taken me so long.


Basically, she's lost sexual attraction to you, either prior to or after becoming involved with a new man. Either way, there is a new man(s). This is only tangentially related to you being "checked out," although it's still an issue. How fat are you compared to when you were dating and how often do women come onto you these days?



unforgiven1 said:


> So...as these weeks pass, I continue to work on being a better man to my family.


Exactly how are you going about doing that? Give me the list. 



unforgiven1 said:


> However, her anger still persists. Not only that, she is still cold, distant and un affectionate.


This is the latter stage of distancing. Prior to this she was thinking she had just lost interest in sex, maybe she thought due to aging or being vaguely "unhaaaappy." Now she's got the hots for new men and is either getting plowed already (most likely) or trying to make it happen. That's when they turn outright cold, because of post orgasmic "bonding chemistry" (oxytocin, etc) causing them to link to the new man she's trying to get impregnated by (at least in she would be in a natural environment). Now she knows she's very interested in sex, just not with you. This is the biological drive that kicks in around 30-40 to crank out more kids with more guys before the clock runs out. Most women can control it. Most cheaters can't.



unforgiven1 said:


> I have noticed over the past few weeks she's been spending an excessive amount of time on her cell phone.


Password?



unforgiven1 said:


> Buying new clothes and stuff...working out a lot more and other personal beautification things that haven't been a priority until recently.


When did she start shaving her bush?



unforgiven1 said:


> She denies an EA or PA, but my mind wanders....Where do I start to see if she's actually found someone else since she denies it.


Is she a SAHM?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Good advice and good questions to consider above.

Look up posts by Weightlifter too to get information on how to get the information that you are going too need.

Good luck.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Headspin...I am not offended at all...you misread me...I am simply saying there could very well be other possibilities other than jumping in with both feet on the cheating bandwagon.
> 
> Not being dramatic...don't really care...just trying to be open minded that perhaps there are other reasons why his wife is talking on the phone and buying new clothes.
> 
> Bringing a woman's perspective....





Lila said:


> Don't jump to the conclusion that she's cheating without evidence to back it up.
> 
> All of the changes in her could be explained as a 180 on her part. She probably realized that being warm, close, and affectionate were getting her nowhere with you. Her increased interest on her cell phone could be due to reconnecting with old friends as proposed by the 180.
> 
> My point is there are other plausible reasons for the changes in your wife.


^Both of the posts quoted above are indeed possibilities. Either way, her behavior would seem to warrant further investigation.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> ^Both of the posts quoted above are indeed possibilities. Either way, her behavior would seem to warrant further investigation.


Quite correct and you always eliminate the most obvious cause first.

VAR and GPS her car.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> First...I have my doubts to the legitimacy of this thread....
> 
> and second...I don't understand how the first thing that pops into many minds here is cheating...
> 
> ...


I don't necessarily think immediately that a spouse like this is cheating. But it's one of the things that can be at least considered and eliminated before spending countless hours and tears trying to figure out why she's behaving like she is. 

C


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

PBear said:


> I don't necessarily think immediately that a spouse like this is cheating. But it's one of the things that can be at least considered and eliminated before spending countless hours and tears trying to figure out why she's behaving like she is.
> 
> C


Sorry for my delay in responding. Basically to answer sone of the questions, i was complacent, a bit selfish and thought everything was fine. It wasnt until she threatened to leave did i put 2 + 2 together. Totally my bad. Her phone is not password protected and she always leaves her email open. Doesnt mean theres not an email account or app i dont know about. The mention above sounds right. She's kind of doing a 180 on me. If so I surrender. I admit my faults and asked for forgiveness. Just praying she can accept and I can prove to the man i am. There is a troubled past on her part of divorce, infidelity and abandonment from a parent. Likely some of this anger directed towards me stems from her past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> Sorry for my delay in responding. Basically to answer sone of the questions, i was complacent, a bit selfish and thought everything was fine. It wasnt until she threatened to leave did i put 2 + 2 together. Totally my bad. Her phone is not password protected and she always leaves her email open. Doesnt mean theres not an email account or app i dont know about. The mention above sounds right. She's kind of doing a 180 on me. If so I surrender. I admit my faults and asked for forgiveness. Just praying she can accept and I can prove to the man i am. There is a troubled past on her part of divorce, infidelity and abandonment from a parent. Likely some of this anger directed towards me stems from her past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get the book "Married Mans Sex Life Primer" asap.
And put a var in her car just to see where her head is at.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> Sorry for my delay in responding. Basically to answer sone of the questions, i was complacent, a bit selfish and thought everything was fine. It wasnt until she threatened to leave did i put 2 + 2 together. Totally my bad. Her phone is not password protected and she always leaves her email open. Doesnt mean theres not an email account or app i dont know about. The mention above sounds right. She's kind of doing a 180 on me. *If so I surrender. I admit my faults and asked for forgiveness. Just praying she can accept and I can prove to the man i am. *There is a troubled past on her part of divorce, infidelity and abandonment from a parent. Likely some of this anger directed towards me stems from her past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


UF1 Prove it with actions not words

Asking for forgiveness....meh

your words will mean nothing to her

When you do what you need to do (for yourself)

She will indeed get the message

You are getting good advice her cheating or no cheating

Better yourself in any case you can't go wrong.

55


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How many hours a week have you been spending with your wife doing date-like things, just the two of you? Date like does not mean spending big money... a walk in the park holding hands is date-like. Snuggling and talking after the kids are asleep is date-like.

Even if she is not having an affair I think you would benefit from the book "Surviving an Affair". It will explain what's going on in her head. It's only been about 4 weeks that you have started to change. That's hardly enough time for her to trust that you have really changed.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> She's kind of doing a 180 on me. If so I surrender. I admit my faults and asked for forgiveness. Just praying she can accept and I can prove to the man i am.


Yeah...that won't work. It never does.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> How many hours a week have you been spending with your wife doing date-like things, just the two of you? Date like does not mean spending big money... a walk in the park holding hands is date-like. Snuggling and talking after the kids are asleep is date-like.
> 
> Even if she is not having an affair I think you would benefit from the book "Surviving an Affair". It will explain what's going on in her head. It's only been about 4 weeks that you have started to change. That's hardly enough time for her to trust that you have really changed.


The problem is, she wants no affection from me. I feel like a roommate. I'd love to do date type stuff, but she won't reciprocate any affection I give.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> What was her sexual history before she started looking for a beta-provider? What was your sexual history? Is she about 33-36 or thereabouts?
> 
> You are correct with the age assumption
> 
> ...


Whats that acronym mean?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> Whats that acronym mean?


SAHM = Stay At Home Mom


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Lila said:


> Great post!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She is not a SAHM. She has a job and makes good money....so do I. We have more money than we need....I can tell you it does not buy happiness that's for sure. 

She has said she wants to work on it, but won't see a counselor yet. I've spoken to some of my wise family members about us and admitted my faults in this. They all say she has a resentful heart and she is discontent. They essentially tell me to do a 180 on her then she'll realize how good she has it...or she'll leave. 

We have gone out a few times with the kids. We have fun but the conversation is very light and nothing to do with us. Usually about the kids. 

She has not said she wants to separate or divorce. She has said she wants to salvage us, but needs time to bring her wall down. As another poster said, she does have me trained. She says jump, I say how high. I always thought I was a good husband and father, but I apparently didn't meet her expectations over the last 13yrs. I'm a flawed human, but my heart is good. Reading back on some of these posts I'm thinking she's finding reasons to justify being angry at me, give me the blame to justify other behavior. Whether it's an PA or an EA.....kind of making sense now. I gave her everything she wanted, let her go out when she wanted; let her buy what she wanted, told her how beautiful she is and how much I loved...over and over. All that has seemed to have gone by the way side. My wife is hot...I know she gets attention from other men. She just will never admit it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Is adultery a deal killer for you on this marriage?



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > What was her sexual history before she started looking for a beta-provider? What was your sexual history? Is she about 33-36 or thereabouts?
> ...


Her sex drive is at its lifetime peak due to maximum testosterone production and her biological clock. It's a dangerous age for married women.



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > When did she start dragging on the sex?
> ...


If she never shaved it before, her OM told her to do it after the first sexual encounter. If she has shaved it in the past, she shaved in anticipation of the first sexual encounter. She cut you off shortly thereafter to maintain loyalty to her new man, either on her own initiative or at his instigation. You have been replaced already.



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > Do you both attend church or just you?
> ...


_You _start going every weekend. Take the kids. She'll be opting out more and more, for a couple of reasons. This increased attendance will in no way increase her attraction to you, but it will fortify you for what is to come.



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > How fat are you compared to when you were dating and how often do women come onto you these days?
> ...


If your shoulder waist ratio is 1.61:1, you're in the sweet spot: The Golden Ratio. It's the top visual attractor for women, and the only one they see when you're dressed. If you're out of alignment adjust your waist measurement or your shoulder measurement accordingly. Do you know how to do that?



unforgiven1 said:


> I get lots of attention from other women, but I decline because I'm faithful.


And stay faithful to her. Until the divorce is final.

Your wife never sees these interactions with women, so they don't serve to demonstrate your high value as a male and to hold her in your attraction. 



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly how are you going about doing that? Give me the list.
> ...


The main thing that leads to this kind of situation is that your wife has devalued your masculinity, either because you give in to her wishes, she doesn't see other women validating her choice in you, she doesn't see you doing manly things, see doesn't see you as a leader of men. The more you suck up to her and try to appease her, the more repellant you become to her.

The guys who help most around the house are the guys who get the least sex. 



unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > Password?
> ...





unforgiven1 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > Is she a SAHM?
> ...


Unless you're letting her go out nights, it's somebody she's getting with during the day, at the office or out and about (if she has that kind of job). The fastest way to get to the bottom on this is with a PI. You should also put a VAR under her driver's seat since almost all WWs like to commune with their OM on the commute. She probably has a burner phone for this purpose. Search her car for a phone and a lingerie stash. Also, GPS it.



unforgiven1 said:


> She has said she wants to work on it, but won't see a counselor yet. I've spoken to some of my wise family members about us and admitted my faults in this. They all say she has a resentful heart and she is discontent. They essentially tell me to do a 180 on her then she'll realize how good she has it...or she'll leave.


Naw, what's actually going on is your wife is a crack addict. When a woman has sex with a new man, she gets an enormous rush of dopamine, norepinephrine (adrenaline), serotonin, PEA, and more that give her a tremendous, crack-like high. If it's adulterous sex, and the guy gives her a climax, it will be the greatest sex she is ever going to have (she'll remember it forever); the forbidden fruit is the sweetest fruit. Then afterward, the mellow bonding chemicals I mentioned kick in, binding her emotionally to the new guy. When she's getting ready, shaving her vulva, putting on her makeup and lingerie, she's already getting off, even before a hand is laid on her. It's a huge powerful psychobiological pull that you're working against when you're trying to bring her back into the marriage.

The first time she got it on with this guy, she knew that you were going to "know" somehow. She was terrified about it. What was going to become of her? But you didn't know. You were outright clueless. This caused her to have extreme contempt for you. You were revealed to be an impostor. You were revealed to NOT be her soulmate. You showed you didn't know her at all. See how that works?

I ask again: is adultery a deal killer on this marriage?



unforgiven1 said:


> We have gone out a few times with the kids. We have fun but the conversation is very light and nothing to do with us. Usually about the kids.


Keep doing that and keep all conversation with her light. In other words: _do not discuss the relationship. _ Ever. If you have to discuss the relationship, it's in trouble. A man with options (which is a big attractor) is never too troubled by a relationship, because women who desire him are everywhere. You have to act like this relationship doesn't concern you in the least.



unforgiven1 said:


> She has not said she wants to separate or divorce. She has said she wants to salvage us, but needs time to bring her wall down.


What she wants is to enjoy her stunt d!ck while you hold down the fort at home and play maid and nanny. This is what is commonly known as "having her cake and eating it, too." That's why she doesn't want a divorce.

Who cares what she wants? You're the one who gets to decide what comes next, not her. Is adultery a deal killer for you?



unforgiven1 said:


> As another poster said, she does have me trained. She says jump, I say how high. I always thought I was a good husband and father, but I apparently didn't meet her expectations over the last 13yrs. I'm a flawed human, but my heart is good. Reading back on some of these posts I'm thinking she's finding reasons to justify being angry at me, give me the blame to justify other behavior.


Exactly! It's her rationalization hamster spinning up excuses for why she has to have sex with another guy and feels so much contempt for you. This is why she has more and more contempt for you every day. Soon, she'll be distancing from the kids, too (if you are their father).



unforgiven1 said:


> Whether it's an PA or an EA.....kind of making sense now. I gave her everything she wanted, let her go out when she wanted; let her buy what she wanted, told her how beautiful she is and how much I loved...over and over. All that has seemed to have gone by the way side. My wife is hot...I know she gets attention from other men. She just will never admit it.


These are all bricks in the wall of female adultery. The same components appear over and over. Basically, she's got the idea, consciously or subconsciously, that she sexually outranks you and you are unattractive to other women, making you unattractive to her. It's all chicken or egg stuff, but it doesn't matter which came first unless you constantly demonstrate you have higher value than she does.

Is adultery a deal killer?


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Is adultery a deal killer for you on this marriage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes adultery is a deal breaker. I just have to prove it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> Yes adultery is a deal breaker. I just have to prove it.


PI is the fastest way to get there. You can help with the VAR and the GPS in her car.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

It's been a while since I've posted here, but since so many of you gave great advice, I figured it was fair to let you know whats happened over the last six weeks. I've posted a bit on the other thread on "Considering Divorce or Seperation" in July because I truly thought it was all my issues destroying our marriage. I was so stupid!! Since I posted last, I was still treated like dirt, no sex, ignored and she was continuing in her wild ways. We went on a 10 vacation mid/late July with the kids and had a decent time. I thought we accomplished a bunch. She said she needed counseling and possibly meds. Came home from the trip and had great sex several times over the course of a couple weeks. But, she still was distant when we got home. Not much of a change other than occasional sex. Fast forward to this month. Long story short I stumbled upon a cell phone number and did some research. Hundreds of minutes talked and hundreds of texts to an old boyfriend. (married with 3 kids mind you) Then I found the hard stuff. Private Facebook messages back and forth full of filth and lust between the two of them. You were ALL right the ENTIRE time. So, since I found this I've confronted. She's said "I'm sorry" but has no remorse. She's sorry for getting caught. She will no seek counseling of my choice and when asked about nuking the affair I was told, "I've given my heart to another man. I can't just undo that." I've already filed for D and she was served two days ago. Maybe now she can understand that no longer will I be walked on and she has 6 months until our D is final to come to me with true, God centered repentance. Just don't see it happening anytime soon. Thanks all of you for your insight. Unfortunately, my awesome kids and I have to suffer for her selfishness. Though she admits an affair, she still communicates with the OM and tells our friends 1/2 truths of how we got here. Basically she tell everyone I failed to meet her emotional needs for many years so she has "met someone else." She to gutless to even use the term affair and blame shifts on me. Hence why it took me a total of 10 day after discovering the affair to file and have her served. Maybe one day, this wrong will be made right. But this purgatory I'm living in is a nightmare!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> It's been a while since I've posted here, but since so many of you gave great advice, I figured it was fair to let you know whats happened over the last six weeks. I've posted a bit on the other thread on "Considering Divorce or Seperation" in July because I truly thought it was all my issues destroying our marriage. I was so stupid!! Since I posted last, I was still treated like dirt, no sex, ignored and she was continuing in her wild ways. We went on a 10 vacation mid/late July with the kids and had a decent time. I thought we accomplished a bunch. She said she needed counseling and possibly meds. Came home from the trip and had great sex several times over the course of a couple weeks. But, she still was distant when we got home. Not much of a change other than occasional sex. Fast forward to this month. Long story short I stumbled upon a cell phone number and did some research. Hundreds of minutes talked and hundreds of texts to an old boyfriend. (married with 3 kids mind you) Then I found the hard stuff. Private Facebook messages back and forth full of filth and lust between the two of them. You were ALL right the ENTIRE time. So, since I found this I've confronted. She's said "I'm sorry" but has no remorse. She's sorry for getting caught. She will no seek counseling of my choice and when asked about nuking the affair I was told, "I've given my heart to another man. I can't just undo that." I've already filed for D and she was served two days ago. Maybe now she can understand that no longer will I be walked on and she has 6 months until our D is final to come to me with true, God centered repentance. Just don't see it happening anytime soon. Thanks all of you for your insight. Unfortunately, my awesome kids and I have to suffer for her selfishness. Though she admits an affair, she still communicates with the OM and tells our friends 1/2 truths of how we got here. Basically she tell everyone I failed to meet her emotional needs for many years so she has "met someone else." She to gutless to even use the term affair and blame shifts on me. Hence why it took me a total of 10 day after discovering the affair to file and have her served. Maybe one day, this wrong will be made right. But this purgatory I'm living in is a nightmare!


What did the other mans wife say when you told her? You did tell her, right? RIGHT!?


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> What did the other mans wife say when you told her? You did tell her, right? RIGHT!?


Well, seeing as soon as I blew up my wife's affair, the OM left his wife and three kids. He's filed for D like I have. Now my stbxw and the OM can live happily ever after. For a little bit anyway until the relationship implodes. His wife knows, but it's a mute point right now.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

So sorry to hear about your situation. Take good care of yourself. The best revenge is living a good life.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Every time I see these where one spouse has to uncover a terrible truth, I feel genuine sorrow for them. No one deserves it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Have you exposed the A to both your families and all your friends?

Do so to stop her painting you as a monster to cover her own sh*tty behavior.

Make her own the A, the D, and the destruction of her children's family.

And still get in contact with POS's BW....you need to know more about this sh*tbag since your foolish WW will undoubtedly bring him around your kids.

His BW can fill you in on facts like if he's abusive, or uses drugs, or is an alcoholic, etc.

And make sure to let ALL family members (yours and hers) and friends know if anything like this comes up....they need to know what she is exposing her kids to.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

When reading these threads at this speed of unraveling, it all sounds so shallow. Like WTF ? What is wrong with these women? It's as if they have no self-control.

Mach, your posts are scary and real.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Sucks that wife put you into this position.

And thanks for giving us an update.

Stay strong and be kind to yourself. There's light at the end of this mess.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Do you live in a no fault state? There is no happily ever after here I'm afraid. Three kids means he'll have to pay support, unless OM has a good job he's going to have to support your wife as well.
Whatever problems she was running away from are going to rear their head sooner or later.

I'll use the time to detach as much as possible. You've done the right thing. Wish you peace in your journey ahead


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

staystrong said:


> When reading these threads at this speed of unraveling, it all sounds so shallow. Like WTF ? What is wrong with these women? It's as if they have no self-control.
> 
> Mach, your posts are scary and real.


That's because 90% of the time, women are eventually revealed by their behavior, if you know what to look for. Once they pass control of their lives from the cortex to the autonomic limbic reproduction system they're just running on a programmed routine. Previous moral, spiritual, or religious beliefs are swept away, since that is all part of rational thought. Shaved poon suddenly appearing for the first time in a long-term marriage is a dead giveaway, but so is the appearance of the rationalization hamster. Once rational control has be relinquished, she has to rationalize constantly in order to justify behavior that she herself condemns in others.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

I hope you lawyered up with a shark. She's currently swooning with the other guy but that could implode any moment. If/when it does she might come crawling back to you begging reconciliation. You have a particular ***** in your armor she will target... your religious values. Don't let her use them against you. Stay tough, stay dark, play hardball and listen to your lawyer. 

You said earlier that adultery is a deal breaker for you. Good. Don't let her seduce you. Pleas to "save the family" and "good Christian values, blah, blah, blah" need to fall on deaf ears. If you do decide to forgive her and reconcile (which I don't recommend) it needs to happen only after you have drug her through a divorce and she has fully owned the consequences. Good luck.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Christian women are just the cat's ass aren't they?


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## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Christian women are just the cat's ass aren't they?


:iagree: I know, right? LoL


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Just curious if the female readers agree with assessments so far.

Do you agree that shaved pubes reveals all values have gone out the window?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Proceed forward with the D at full throttle. My xWW was so happy to moving on to sugar daddy that she have me a good deal just to move on faster. 

In the end he tossed her under the bus and stayed with his wife but fortunately I was able to get or d done before that happened. 

Maybe that will work for you also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

staystrong said:


> Just curious if the female readers agree with assessments so far.
> 
> Do you agree that shaved pubes reveals all values have gone out the window?


Not female. I'm a guy.

I don't think shaving pubes has anything to do with ones values; however a sudden and drastic change in grooming habits can be a huge red flag. Some guys like au natural.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Unforgiven

Glad you came back to update us, saddened that you confirmed what we all felt was happening.

Your wife is remorseless and will probably remain so throughout the divorce.

One suggestion for you.

Do not be her friend. Be a good coparent but that is it.

She will not wakeup until her fantasy with the OM implodes and that will take time.

Only then will she truly understand what she gave up for "true love".

Stay strong. Cool and dispassionate towards her. Protect yur heart and the kids as best you can.

Keep posting and venting here.

HM


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I don't think shaving pubes has anything to do with ones values; however a sudden and drastic change in grooming habits can be a huge red flag. Some guys like au natural.


Exactly.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> That's because 90% of the time, women are eventually revealed by their behavior, if you know what to look for. Once they pass control of their lives from the cortex to the autonomic limbic reproduction system they're just running on a programmed routine. Previous moral, spiritual, or religious beliefs are swept away, since that is all part of rational thought. Shaved poon suddenly appearing for the first time in a long-term marriage is a dead giveaway, but so is the appearance of the rationalization hamster. Once rational control has be relinquished, she has to rationalize constantly in order to justify behavior that she herself condemns in others.


And this is why you watch their behaviour and listen to their body language, not their words.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

She sleeping on the couch? You're divorcing her. She's on the couch. Do not get her pregnant. Don't be seduced. If he gets her prego, she may trick you.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> Fast forward to this month. Long story short I stumbled upon a cell phone number and did some research. Hundreds of minutes talked and hundreds of texts to an old boyfriend. (married with 3 kids mind you) Then I found the hard stuff. Private Facebook messages back and forth full of filth and lust between the two of them. You were ALL right the ENTIRE time.


so these were new messages from August, or older messages? did the timeline match when she started acting odd per your original message (May)? or was she just really good at hiding it?

this might not have been her first rodeo, so think about having the kids dna'd, just to get the complete picture of what's been going on. 

Three kids under 10, where do all these wayward spouses find the time?!?!?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How far away does this guy live? Have they been seeing each other or is this an internet affair so far?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Just curious if the female readers agree with assessments so far.
> 
> Do you agree that shaved pubes reveals all values have gone out the window?


We've had a couple of churchgoing bible thumping WWs on here in the past. They are usually the most unrepentant cheaters. I think we still have one posting on TAM who is still active in her affair. Goes to church every Sunday....perfectly at peace with her affair.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> We've had a couple of churchgoing bible thumping WWs on here in the past. They are usually the most unrepentant cheaters. I think we still have one posting on TAM who is still active in her affair. Goes to church every Sunday....perfectly at peace with her affair.


That's because the Lord understands and suspends His rules for young ladies on demand, because they're all such special snowflakes. This was explained to me by a young lady when I was just a young teenager. It was my first theologically significant eureka moment. American christian women, along with the American church, has been promoting divorce and adultery for a long, long time.

Solipsism runs amok.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

My adulterous XW goes to church, and much more regularly since we split. I guess she needs the forgiveness. She even cited my borderline-atheism as a reason for our "growing apart" during the gaslighting phase. Later I found the major reason...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> That's because the Lord understands and suspends His rules for young ladies on demand, because they're all such special snowflakes. This was explained to me by a young lady when I was just a young teenager. It was my first theologically significant eureka moment. American christian women, along with the American church, has been promoting divorce and adultery for a long, long time.
> 
> Solipsism runs amok.


As a recovering Baptist I agree.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> My adulterous XW goes to church, and much more regularly since we split. I guess she needs the forgiveness. She even cited my borderline-atheism as a reason for our "growing apart" during the gaslighting phase. Later I found the major reason...


Yeah isn't it neat how they get all sanctified when the word gets out what slvts they are?


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Yep, I've noticed how attracted they are to the charismatic preachers who slather liberal doses of feelgoodism on their adulterous souls. Toxic enablers, these guys. 

I do however believe there are real Christians out there who walk the walk, not just talk the talk.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

commonsenseisn't said:


> Yep, I've noticed how attracted they are to the charismatic preachers who slather liberal doses of feelgoodism on their adulterous souls. Toxic enablers, these guys.
> 
> I do however believe there are real Christians out there who walk the walk, not just talk the talk.


There are. But they are a rarity. Like Noah.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> My wife and I (married 13yrs with 3 kids under 10) have been at odds over the last month. She basically blew up at me saying she feels like a single parent. Says I'm a great provider, but when I home, I'm checked out. She is partially correct. We've had this talk many times over the years. In my mind I was doing the right thing, but in hers, her spirit was closing and her heart was hardening. I love her very much. I have apologized, asked God to forgive me and I've accepted my down falls as a husband and father. I made a promise to make it better and have. She's even stated she's noticed a good change. She just can't seem to understand why it's taken me so long. So...as these weeks pass, I continue to work on being a better man to my family. However, her anger still persists. Not only that, she is still cold, distant and un affectionate. I have noticed over the past few weeks she's been spending an excessive amount of time on her cell phone. Buying new clothes and stuff...working out a lot more and other personal beautification things that haven't been a priority until recently. She denies an EA or PA, but my mind wanders....Where do I start to see if she's actually found someone else since she denies it.



When a spouse becomes complacent and several talks are initiated with no change, 99.99% of spouses check out. 

Marriage takes work and effort people. 

Of course it's too little, too late. I think it's a lot easier to reel a man back in than a woman at this point (usually). 

This does not justify having an affair. If she told you she wanted more from you and you couldn't or wouldn't give it, she should have divorced you instead of introducing a third party into your lives. 

I did not cheat or divorce my husband after years of pleading for some change but I was making a plan to divorce. I was finishing up my certification as to afford a life without a dual income. 

I am sorry your wife has done this and I agree with the poster who says, "where the heck is there any time with three young kids".

Your marriage sounds like it can be saved with effort on both your parts. (And I rarely say this)


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Guidance needed*

Was about to say "they have St. in front of their names". 


bandit.45 said:


> There are. But they are a rarity. Like Noah.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

OnTheRocks said:


> My adulterous XW goes to church, and much more regularly since we split. I guess she needs the forgiveness. She even cited my borderline-atheism as a reason for our "growing apart" during the gaslighting phase. Later I found the major reason...


My ex-husband started going to church every Sunday after DDay. I guess it can't hurt but I never asked why.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rugs said:


> My ex-husband started going to church every Sunday after DDay. I guess it can't hurt but I never asked why.


Guilt. Not remorse. Just good old Christian guilt.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Well...I got lots of questions to answer. Regarding communication, it's all business right now. No more relationship...just kids and mediation logistics. 

I only slept on the couch once. As of now, I'm at my parents during my work week. On my days off I stay in our house and she leaves. It works for now until we figure out if we're going sell or If I get refi'd out. 

The messages I discovered were about 1hr old when I found them. They were as fresh as the morning air. The idea of the "Christian women" thing fell by the way side. At one time my wife had good morals and values. Many reasons caused for her demise, but even so...I NEVER was tempted to cheat; yet she was and did. She has a moral character flaw that only she can repair. At this time she wants zero to do with religion, the church or anyone telling her what to do


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Rugs said:


> When a spouse becomes complacent and several talks are initiated with no change, 99.99% of spouses check out.
> 
> Marriage takes work and effort people.
> 
> ...


I failed in many areas as a husband. I worked LONG hours, at night, overtime etc to provide a comfortable house so my wife never had work full time. She was able to stay home with the kids. Was I tired when I came home, yes. I'm not a super social guy and didn't always want to go out. I'm a home body. I could been more romantic and thoughtful. I know this. But at no point did I make her feel unloved. I always showered with compliments and gave her freedoms and liberty to spend pretty much when she wanted (within limits). She encouraged the overtime, yet I think it was part of our marital downfall. She is very materialistic and that's partly my fault for fostering that lifestyle. It won't happen in my next relationship. I'm human, complacent and less than perfect, but she has been discontent for many years. Nothing was ever good enough for her. 

Can my marriage be saved? God only knows. What I do I know is when I inquired about reconciliation she said she is in love with another man and can't just "undo" that. She also refuses going the MC of my choice. Oh, the big one...remorse. She's sorry, but not remorseful. So, at this point my marriage is over. Maybe one day she'll realize how good she really had it.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> How far away does this guy live? Have they been seeing each other or is this an internet affair so far?


The OM is very close. Maybe 15-20min away. Total PA, EA and IA. Trifecta!


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Someone on here said for me to be wary and careful if/when she comes crawling back. Also to not get her pregnant. As of now she is head over heals for the OM. There will NO pregnancy on my because I've been fixed. If she gets knocked up...it won't be mine. She is a loooong way from trying to fix things. Even if she was, my stbxw is very broken and only she can fix herself. We're no where close to reconciling anything; thus the divorce will continue. She loves someone else...and that's not me.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> The messages I discovered were about 1hr old when I found them. They were as fresh as the morning air.


I'm sorry you're going through this; looks like your wife followed the cheater's script line by line. Those red flags were pretty big.

The first pieces of advice you got here in June were to check the cell phone bill, and to put a keylogger on the computer, and catch the calls on a var. That would have cleared up the situation to you in the first few days.

Not trying to rub salt in the wound, be let this be a lesson for anyone wavering on putting a monitoring plan in place when faced with the old red flags.


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

Unforgiven - I have read through this thread, and I know you said that the OM is divorcing his wife also due to the affair. You never said that you actually exposed....so is this based on what your wife told you or did you actually expose?

The reason I am saying this is that very frequently the cheating spouse who is caught (your wife) is out to protect the OM as the OM and her have planned that the best way to move forward is to keep this under wraps until the OM can "get out of his marriage". What often happens is that the OM's wife really does not know and the whole story about the OM divorcing is a fabrication, it's said to just keep the affair going.

If you exposed great.....but if you did not don't listen to anything you hear about the OM divorcing. The OM, when his wife is shown the proof by you, may end up protecting his marriage and throw your wife imediately under the bus.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

lewmin said:


> What often happens is that the OM's wife really does not know and the whole story about the OM divorcing is a fabrication, it's said to just keep the affair going.


great point. She's a cheater, therefore she's a liar. Never take anything she says as the truth; everything she says is to protect herself.

Also, contacting the OMW might give you more background information, perhaps it's been going on a lot longer than you think.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

ReidWright said:


> great point. She's a cheater, therefore she's a liar. Never take anything she says as the truth; everything she says is to protect herself.
> 
> Also, contacting the OMW might give you more background information, perhaps it's been going on a lot longer than you think.


Locating the OMW is my challenge. The OM has already moved out and you bet your a$$ my STBXW is protecting him. She has told me his family doesnt know about her...only that "things didnt work out between them. " In due time ill find her and let her know. Now that theyre free to have a relationship, the challenge and thrill is gone. I give them 6 months tops before he dumps her. She may be to prideful to come crawling back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> Locating the OMW is my challenge. The OM has already moved out and you bet your a$$ my STBXW is protecting him. re he dumps her. She may be to prideful to come crawling back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



why is it a challenge? google his name and town...his wife will come up

if you have his name and town, try spokeo, radaris, etc to find his (former) home address and take his wife the print outs. Expose sooner rather than later.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

ReidWright said:


> why is it a challenge? google his name and town...his wife will come up
> 
> if you have his name and town, try spokeo, radaris, etc to find his (former) home address and take his wife the print outs. Expose sooner rather than later.


Ive done that. No home address pops up. I did find her on Linkdin. I'll be crafting an email to her asking for her to contact me regarding some interesting info!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm happy Reid and I are double-teaming you big-time on this one. The OM may not have really moved out, or he may have a "love-shack' on the side that they go to. Don't be shocked if they are still living together as husnand and wife but he is sneaking off to be with your wife.

Once the OW finds out, with proof from you (the proof is very important), watch all hell break loose. Also, do not even think about tipping off your wife or she will then tip off the OM and they will devise a plan to block this or he will say to his wife that there is some kind of nutjob out there fabricating stories. Good luck, man!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

unforgiven1 said:


> At this time she wants zero to do with religion, the church or anyone telling her what to do


So you DID tell her parents, her siblings, her pastor, and her best friend?

Right?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hire a PI to find OMW.

This task would be relatively a small expence compared to staking someone out or having some one followed. Basicly it just some desk time on the computer.

If you savy enough you can do it your self, but the thing is, a PI will have the resourse to get the info you need.

If you have the dough have someone else do the desk work of looking up public records and what not.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> The idea of the *"Christian women" thing fell by the way side. *At one time my wife had good morals and values. Many reasons caused for her demise, but even so...I NEVER was tempted to cheat; yet she was and did. She has a moral character flaw that only she can repair. *At this time she wants zero to do with religion, the church or anyone telling her what to do*


This indicates OM has no interest in Christianity. A large percentage of women tend to take on the religious orientation of the new man pretty quickly. It's common enough that I sometimes wonder if women actually have agency.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> My adulterous XW goes to church, and much more regularly since we split. I guess she needs the forgiveness. *She even cited my borderline-atheism as a reason for our "growing apart" during the gaslighting phase.* Later I found the major reason...


And of course that excuse, along with today's church, is completely out of line with hard scripture (nothing fuzzy about it) requiring the Christian wife remain in loving submission to her husband, even when he is a total unbeliever. But she'll never hear those principles mentioned in church, and if she does, she'll just switch to the church across the street.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> Well...I got lots of questions to answer. Regarding communication, it's all business right now. No more relationship...just kids and mediation logistics.
> 
> I only slept on the couch once. As of now, I'm at my parents during my work week. On my days off I stay in our house and she leaves. It works for now until we figure out if we're going sell or If I get refi'd out.
> 
> The messages I discovered were about 1hr old when I found them. They were as fresh as the morning air. The idea of the "Christian women" thing fell by the way side. At one time my wife had good morals and values. Many reasons caused for her demise, but even so...I NEVER was tempted to cheat; yet she was and did. She has a moral character flaw that only she can repair. At this time she wants zero to do with religion, the church or anyone telling her what to do


She has poor boundaries. That is what caused her to cheat.

Make life interesting. EXPOSE the affair to anyone and everyone! Do the 180!


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Expose, expose and EXPOSE!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Expose this POS and destroy him in every way you can.

He may have told his BW he needed a few weeks of separation to figure out what he wants cause he's unsatisfied in the M (a familiar story from WS in these threads)...and he did this right away after your discovery because he is helping your WW to do damage control on the situation.

They are hoping you buy the story he left and filed D, so that you DO NOT follow through and blow him up with his BW and his family.

Crush this worm.

Have you thoroughly exposed your WW to both of your families and to all friends?

If not, do so ASAP.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

UFG1,

Exposing the affair to everyone will piss her off to no end. It also get her head out the clouds. She is in the land of unicorns and rainbows. Time to rain on the parade. Use FB to expose. Advise her parents, brothers and sisters. She will get all bent out of shape from the exposure but lets face it...what do you have to lose? You do have something to gain if she snaps out of the fairy tale. If the affair is ongoing anything else you do makes no difference.

180,180,180


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> UFG1,
> 
> Exposing the affair to everyone will piss her off to no end. It also get her head out the clouds. She is in the land of unicorns and rainbows. Time to rain on the parade. Use FB to expose. Advise her parents, brothers and sisters. She will get all bent out of shape from the exposure but lets face it...what do you have to lose? You do have something to gain if she snaps out of the fairy tale. If the affair is ongoing anything else you do makes no difference.
> 
> 180,180,180


So my entire family and friends know, and so does her family and friends. Here's the problem. There is a lack of accountability on her side. Though they know my side, they seem to feel sorry for her more than they're made. They don't condone what she did but, being her mother cheated on her dad and her dad has multiple marriages under his belt, I'm preaching to the choir. I will continue to tell people the truth. On the other hand, I don't want her back and need my mediation to be as smooth as possible. There's a balancing act here I need to be careful how I handle. Any thoughts?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

commonsenseisn't said:


> Yep, I've noticed how attracted they are to the charismatic preachers who slather liberal doses of feelgoodism on their adulterous souls. Toxic enablers, these guys.
> 
> I do however believe there are real Christians out there who walk the walk, not just talk the talk.


My preacher (AG COWBOY CHURCH) will not be in a meeting or behind a closed door with another woman without his wife present. Does not want the perception of an impropriety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Guilt. Not remorse. Just good old Christian guilt.


Were all guilty and come short of the Glory of God. In church is right where they need to be. To see THE DR. for their heart condition.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> So my entire family and friends know, and so does her family and friends. Here's the problem. There is a lack of accountability on her side. Though they know my side, they seem to feel sorry for her more than they're made. They don't condone what she did but, being her mother cheated on her dad and her dad has multiple marriages under his belt, I'm preaching to the choir. I will continue to tell people the truth. On the other hand, I don't want her back and need my mediation to be as smooth as possible. There's a balancing act here I need to be careful how I handle. Any thoughts?


It's over and everyone knows why it's over and that you are in the right. From here on out, just worry about getting out as smoothly and quickly with as much of your hide intact as possible .


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, well, if you're done, don't waste your breath. Just file and move out and move on.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> So my entire family and friends know, and so does her family and friends. Here's the problem. There is a lack of accountability on her side. Though they know my side, they seem to feel sorry for her more than they're made. They don't condone what she did but, being her mother cheated on her dad and her dad has multiple marriages under his belt, I'm preaching to the choir. I will continue to tell people the truth. On the other hand, I don't want her back and need my mediation to be as smooth as possible. There's a balancing act here I need to be careful how I handle. Any thoughts?


You appear to be the sole man standing. Her family looks to like this type of lifestyle. You should accept it as well. I'm guessing this lifestyle is not what you are about. Time to D and move on. Do the 180 so you can detach. 

As far as mediation...you pay a lawyer damn good money. The lawyer is now you mouth piece and handles the balancing act.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Were all guilty and come short of the Glory of God. In church is right where they need to be. To see THE DR. for their heart condition.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Problem is many pastors get in the Doctors way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I agree. Problem is many pastors get in the Doctors way.


Too many pastors are marital Kevorkians.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> It's over and everyone knows why it's over and that you are in the right. From here on out, just worry about getting out as smoothly and quickly with as much of your hide intact as possible .


That's the plan. I really want to mediate this asap so I can get my own place, move on with my life and teach my kids what the definition of commitment really is. I have several pages of hard evidence of my stbxw's affair saved just in case some of the nay sayer's and blame shifters continue to think that her cheating was MY fault. Exposing that will be interesting, but I also don't want to get sued for defamation of character....even though its true!!! :loser:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unforgiven1 said:


> That's the plan. I really want to mediate this asap so I can get my own place, move on with my life and teach my kids what the definition of commitment really is. I have several pages of hard evidence of my stbxw's affair saved just in case some of the nay sayer's and blame shifters continue to think that her cheating was MY fault. Exposing that will be interesting, but *I also don't want to get sued for defamation of character....even though its true!!!* :loser:


Unlikely to happen for the simple reason that it would throw all of your evidence into the _public record!!_:rofl:


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Guidance needed*



unforgiven1 said:


> That's the plan. I really want to mediate this asap so I can get my own place, move on with my life and teach my kids what the definition of commitment really is. I have several pages of hard evidence of my stbxw's affair saved just in case some of the nay sayer's and blame shifters continue to think that her cheating was MY fault. Exposing that will be interesting, but I also don't want to get sued for defamation of character....even though its true!!! :loser:


Don't let fear dictate your actions. Do what is right.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A good start is posting the om on cheaterville.com. Then send him the google linkl

Btw, you dont have to worry about lawsuits if youbtell the truth as you know it or what you believe is the truth. Freedom of speech you know!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

unforgiven1 said:


> *I failed in many areas as a husband. I worked LONG hours, at night, overtime etc to provide a comfortable house so my wife never had work full time.*
> 
> She was able to stay home with the kids. Was I tired when I came home, yes.* I'm not a super social guy and didn't always want to go out. I'm a home body. I could been more romantic and thoughtful. I know this. But at no point did I make her feel unloved. I always showered with compliments and gave her freedoms and liberty to spend pretty much when she wanted (within limits)*...
> 
> ...


UF1,

Don't let your conscience go down this path. The state of a marriage is 50/50... but her decision to Cheat is squarely 100% on her. 

Her actions and state of mind are Text-Book blame shifting found on Page 1 of the Cheaters Handbook. 

*Her selfish, materialistic character traits were always there. She just held them in check*, before cheating she got her fix from spending and personal freedom that you so graciously provided. 

But... *It was never good enough.*

5 years ago, I was sitting where you are today. I worked 60+ hours a week. Saved every penny I could (2 kids) going entering College. Tired... you bet. In truth, I enjoyed being the provider. 

Did she appreciate any of it? In reality she didn't even think about it. It was all about her and the *"un-met needs." *

Understand... You didn't force her to cheat. All the seeds were planted years before, all it took was s(OM)eone to water them.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

RWB said:


> UF1,
> 
> Don't let your conscience go down this path. The state of a marriage is 50/50... but her decision to Cheat is squarely 100% on her.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comment. You're right with everything you said. I don't think our marriage would ever be the same if she cane back. Too much damage to repair...i don't know. Can anyone tell me the emotional/mental phases and adulteress goes through. I've already experienced blame, but I noticed when I stopped by the house today there was a bunch of new micro brews in my fridge. Why is she buying me stuff when I'm divorcing her, I hardly speak to her AND shes still sees the OM? Does guilt set in this early?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's buying you. Doing what she knows softens you up, so you can stay on the hook.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

First it will be microbrews.

Second it will be sloppy seconds.

Next she will want to remain friends.

The mind of a wayward wife.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> She's buying you. Doing what she knows softens you up, so you can stay on the hook.


Im going to drink the beer! But she's already been served her D papers. That ship has sailed!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

unforgiven1 said:


> ... I stopped by the house today there was a bunch of new micro brews in my fridge. Why is she buying me stuff when I'm divorcing her, I hardly speak to her AND shes still sees the OM? Does guilt set in this early?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheating and Rational Thought? Don't waste your time.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I would have boxed the beers up and driven them over to where she is staying and thrown them down at the front door. Then I would have texted her "Really? You think buying me beer is going to make up for what you have done? Really? On top of being an amoral, remorseless slvt, you are also an idiot."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

unforgiven1 said:


> Thanks for the comment. You're right with everything you said. I don't think our marriage would ever be the same if she cane back. Too much damage to repair...i don't know. Can anyone tell me the emotional/mental phases and adulteress goes through. I've already experienced blame, but I noticed when I stopped by the house today there was a bunch of new micro brews in my fridge. Why is she buying me stuff when I'm divorcing her, I hardly speak to her AND shes still sees the OM? Does guilt set in this early?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pick one:

1. she's trying to keep you in the picture

2. she's delusional

On second thought, both are probably true.


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

unforgiven1 said:


> Im going to drink the beer! But she's already been served her D papers. That ship has sailed!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In her mind you are supossed to be very supportive about them and help her to build this her relation with POSOM while being her best frined. fantasy land!the fog!

As you are out, try to be amicable just to get what you want!! after that you are free o post CV, etc.

IMO the best revenge is be totally detached from her and be well!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> I would have boxed the beers up and driven them over to where she is staying and thrown them down at the front door. Then I would have texted her "Really? You think buying me beer is going to make up for what you have done? Really? On top of being an amoral, remorseless slvt, you are also an idiot."


I'll take the beer


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> From here on out, just worry about getting out as smoothly and quickly with as much of your hide intact as possible .


If you could pull it off it would be ideal for your divorce to be final before you blow up the OM.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"In her mind you are supossed to be very supportive about them and help her to build this her relation with POSOM while being her best frined. fantasy land!the fog!"

lol...yep...it is by far the STUPIDEST thing WS's seem to think.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Suspecting2014 said:


> In her mind you are supossed to be very supportive about them and help her to build this her relation with POSOM while being her best frined. fantasy land!the fog!
> 
> As you are out, try to be amicable just to get what you want!! after that you are free o post CV, etc.
> 
> IMO the best revenge is be totally detached from her and be well!


Im doing pretty well with detachment. The problem is compounded when kids are in the mix. I have to see the stbxw at games and sometimes her parents...,who feel sorry for her. sux!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Guidance needed*



unforgiven1 said:


> Im doing pretty well with detachment. The problem is compounded when kids are in the mix. I have to see the stbxw at games and sometimes her parents...,who feel sorry for her. sux!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her parents sympathy probably has a lot to do with her lousy attitude. I would bet it has been that way her whole life. No remorse is seen as necessary by her because she is waiting for people to feel sorry for her.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Her parents sympathy probably has a lot to do with her lousy attitude. I would bet it has been that way her whole life. No remorse is seen as necessary by her because she is waiting for people to feel sorry for her.


Absolutely true. She knows she made s fatal error in our marriage but is an expert at re writing our marital history. I check our phone logs and she still talks and texts him throughout the day. Im betting hrr family and close friends dont know that. She was spoiled as a child. Due to her mom abandoning her family for another man, her dad smothered them materially and coddled them saying they could nothing wrong. Rarely any consequences for behavior. All that translates to now. This weekend im separating our phone a plan. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

unforgiven1 said:


> Im doing pretty well with detachment. The problem is compounded when kids are in the mix. I have to see the stbxw at games and sometimes her parents...,who feel sorry for her. sux!


That's easy. Bring a hot chick on your arm every time you go. Even if you have to hire one. You'll forget they even exist. AND it'll drive them crazy.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

turnera said:


> That's easy. Bring a hot chick on your arm every time you go. Even if you have to hire one. You'll forget they even exist. AND it'll drive them crazy.


QFT, as we used to say. I can't emphasize this enough. New girl, every time. Bring two at once, if you can pull it off.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Due to her mom abandoning her family for another man, her dad smothered them materially and coddled them saying they could nothing wrong."

Following in mommy's footsteps huh?

This woman has too many FOO (family of origin) issues to fix...best to move on as painlessly and quickly as possible.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Hello all. It's been a New York minute since I last posted. I read through RedTool's thread and it totally reminded me of my own divorce so I thought you all deserve to get an update. My saga has essentially concluded. Divorce is essentially done, just waiting for the courts to file away our judgment. Got a fair deal in the divorce....thank god she works full time! Big thing I'm dealing with now is my 9yr old. My ex recently told her about her relationship and that the POSOM will be around a lot more. This POSOM is the guy she cheated on me with and they are continuing their relationship and felt all kids needed to know. My kids have met POSOM on several occasions but was introduced as "mommy's friend from college." So, I'm fielding questions from my 9yr on why mommy has a boyfriend; when are they getting married; will she have step siblings etc. A lot of stress for a kid to have. My thoughts are the only reason they are telling the kids is so they can spend more time together and not worry about the kids noticing. Selfish.... My other continuing issue is mutual friends. As fast as she could, she went to several friends to tell them she only had an "EA" and when I found out and I just left her and wouldn't give her second chance. 1/2 truths, but I'm tired having to explain myself. I wish she would just own her ****. She never tells her friends she had a PA/EA from the beginning and never says she fell out of love with me and in love with another man. Maybe I should just get over it and move on. Still irritating...Good news is I've been VERY good friends with the POSOM ex wife. This friendship drives my ex up a wall. She had the audacity to tell me my friendship with her is "inappropriate." WTF?! I laughed at that.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm guessing any relationship with a women would be inappropriate in your ex eyes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, I'd be spending a LOT of time explaining ad nauseum to your 'friends' what the real truth is. Just for kicks.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Good news is I've been VERY good friends with the POSOM ex wife. This friendship drives my ex up a wall. She had the audacity to tell me my friendship with her is "inappropriate." WTF?! I laughed at that."

Tell her that the both of you really feel lucky to have each other....you both see the relationship as a complete upgrade over your lowlife, traitorous exes......so she will have to learn to deal with it.

And inform her that the only inappropriate relationship here is the one that started between two POS's who stabbed their partners and their children in the back by engaging in an A.

F*ck her at the POSOM....I'm hoping for your sense of justice that it drives both of these scummy people crazy to see.

And congratulate her on becoming as big a POS as her worthless mom.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

Interesting you say that. My ex has made several comments to the effect of "I want you to be happy with anyone except her (omxw)." Interesting.....


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

My ex is such a narcissistic woman, she truly believes I pushes in the arms of another man and she is justified in her behavior. Matters little now. She's no longer my wife. I've commented already the oy reason i have a friendship with the omxw is because she and her boyfriend cheated. She ignores it and says "we all contributed to the dissolution of our marriage!" Narcissist


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

unforgiven

I have a friend that has a similar story as you.

He had a divorce party celebrating his divorce when it became final.

He invited all his friends, some of those friends with his Ex.

He made a short, simple toast that explained why he divorced his WW.

You could see the light bulbs go off in a few of our friends faces as they believed his ExW and not him all that time.

Maybe he should have invited the OMW to the party as well? That would have been the icing on the cake.

He did it in a classy way with the rest of our friends, never knocked his Ex but just got the truth out there.

And his ExW got the message rather quickly. "The truth always prevails."

Glad your 9 yo is asking questions. Keep communicating with her.

Her lightbulb is going to off sooner rather than later. Girls are smarter than boys at a younger age.

You'll see.

HM


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

PS

Your friendship with the OMW not only bothers her but eats at the OM as well.

If the OMW is nice and respectful then stay friends with her.

Screw the other two! Heck, I would love to see your Ex's face when she drops the kids off and the OMEXW is over visiting you.

It will just remind your Ex of her guilt in breaking up her/your family......

HM


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Is the OMXW someone you would want a serious relationship with? If so, I say go for it!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

While I had the same thought Plan 9 a relationship built upon infidelity even between two BS's rarely works out or is healthy.

It does seem to have worked for Shania Twain though.

No matter what course their relationship takes they can be great friends and a shoulder to lean on.

They share a common bond through a tragedy. 

If they both survive, heal and begin to grow as individuals who knows what their future holds.

The key is that they both decide to be happy again.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

I could totally see myself dating her. She's beautiful, loyal, and is financially independent from her ex. We've actually discussed the possibility of a relationship more than friends but we're both set on making sure our respective kids get through this. For the meantime we will continue to be close, but have boundaries set.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> While I had the same thought Plan 9 a relationship built upon infidelity even between two BS's rarely works out or is healthy.
> 
> It does seem to have worked for Shania Twain though.
> 
> ...


Both Shania and her new husband traded up.

WAAAAAY up.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> Good news is I've been VERY good friends with the POSOM ex wife. This friendship drives my ex up a wall. She had the audacity to tell me my friendship with her is "inappropriate." WTF?! I laughed at that.


Your X sounds like a real piece of work.

Tell her that she doesn't get to tell you what to do ever again and you can be friends with whoever the F you please.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> I could totally see myself dating her. She's beautiful, loyal, and is financially independent from her ex. We've actually discussed the possibility of a relationship more than friends but we're both set on making sure our respective kids get through this. For the meantime we will continue to be close, but have boundaries set.


Exactly! The only people that this should matter to, or have any say about this, is you, her and your children. Period, end of story.

If you two decide you want to be an outright couple, the only jury you'll have to present your case to are your collective kiddos.

The next time your ex gives you any guff about seeing this woman, I'd(but I'm an a$$hole) tell her this.

"You're so worried about me and "GF's name" getting together, I'd think that you'd be more worried about the bet I made with her."

Then your ex asks "What bet?". To which you reply "You cheated on me with him. He cheated on her with you. You're both cheaters. I bet her that if you're the first to cheat on him, I win. If he's the first to cheat on you, she wins. I like my odds...".


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Interesting you say that. My ex has made several comments to the effect of "I want you to be happy with anyone except her (omxw)." Interesting....."

Your exWW is indeed a ridiculous narcissist.

Tell her she no longer has any say in your personal or dating life....she gave that right up for a known cheater and lowlife, POSOM.

What the h*ll does she think D means?...lol

What a dingbat!


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

One of my biggest challenges is sticking to my boundaries I set. By nature I'm a peacemaker and when conflict arises, I like to solve it and move on. I NEVER hold grudges. The ex on the other hand is the polar opposite. She loves a good argument, and can hold a grudge like no other. Up until a few weeks ago, she would constantly text me asking if I'm communicating with the omxw, and why, and trying to fill my head with poison that the omxw is toxic, caused her husband to leave etc. I would answer her just keep things civil. I stopped that a few weeks ago. I look back and it's crazy talk. Both my ex and her boyfriend say he left his wife because he was "unhappy." Not because of another women (my wife at the time). Classic game of narcissistic blame shifting. My therapist told me the omxw has the right to be b**ch and inflict as much conflict as she wants so long as the kids needs are met. The term "Unhappiness" seems to be constant phrase used with cheaters.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Go to the MARRIAGEBUILDERS.com website and find the instructions for exposing an affair. Not telling a children about an affair is very damaging to them when they do find out. Children should be told the truth in age appropriate ways. Not telling them what is going on is both parents lying to them. This destroys trust in both parents when not if they are told by a third party.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

My ex already told my 9yr old daughter she has a boyfriend. I also have a 6yr old son who doesn't know yet. I agree they need to know but at these ages is way to young. My kids are still dealing with the divorce. Adding the stress "mommys new boyfriend" on a child is unfair. My ex should be smart enough to hold off parading her boyfriend in front of my kids until they are emotionally ready. The only reason she told my kid was so she can see him more often, in front of the kids and not worry. Total selfish motive.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Very selfish of her.

Have you or your STBXW discussed bring your D to a therapist to make sure she has a neutral party to talk to.

Or you and your STBXW go to a therapist to discuss the best way to discuss the D with the kids. That discussion might include when is the right time to introduce the kids to a new significant other.

Just me typing this makes me feel bad about how immature and selfish your wife is.....


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

We've both told the kids we re divorcing many months ago. They just don't know why. My daughter is in therapy and has been for over 2 months. I also see a therapist about once a month. My ex see's her site school counselor (Jr high counselor) who's her "friend" as well. I'm sure she's getting a total non biased therapy...not.


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## unforgiven1 (Jun 25, 2014)

.....and she's not my wife anymore. She doesn't deserve that title. My legal business is done.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

unforgiven1 said:


> My ex already told my 9yr old daughter she has a boyfriend. I also have a 6yr old son who doesn't know yet. I agree they need to know but at these ages is way to young. My kids are still dealing with the divorce. Adding the stress "mommys new boyfriend" on a child is unfair. *My ex should be smart enough to hold off parading her boyfriend in front of my kids until they are emotionally ready*. The only reason she told my kid was so she can see him more often, in front of the kids and not worry. Total selfish motive.


Don't count on it


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