# Husband wants to call OW in front of me to end it.



## SomethingsUp (Sep 30, 2014)

He's asking me what he should say to her to do this right, what are your thoughts about this. 

He's also in the process of quitting his job and looking for other work because of the affair. 

I'll take any advice, I've put the divorce on hold over the things he's doing lately and we are going to marriage counseling.

Thanks guys/gals.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

SomethingsUp said:


> He's asking me what he should say to her to do this right, what are your thoughts about this.
> 
> He's also in the process of quitting his job and looking for other work because of the affair.
> 
> ...


Is this the first time he's cheated? How long have you been married? Did he tell you about it or did you find out another way?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Not sure why you should have to witness that scene unless you want to. If he wants to pre-script the conversation that's his job. You can approve it if you want. The point I'm trying to make is that he made this mess and it is his job alone to clean it up. It's not the place to have a bonding experience. Now if you need to see the proof that's another issue. I suspect that the proof you need is something else.

Change of employment is a good example of him doing the heavy lifting.
MN


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not sure what would be the point in this display. If he wished to be deceitful, a second call to her in private would explain the first had been solely to deceive you and the affair would continue. You won't be around to hear all his calls. He has lost your trust and there is no substitute for time in order to earn it back (if that is even possible). There are no easy fixes, no quick or cheap ways to earn back trust that has been lost.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Not sure what would be the point in this display. If he wished to be deceitful, a second call to her in private would explain the first had been solely to deceive you and the affair would continue. You won't be around to hear all his calls. He has lost your trust and there is no substitute for time in order to earn it back (if that is even possible). There are no easy fixes, no quick or cheap ways to earn back trust that has been lost.


Or they already rehearsed this staged call. Cheaters are crafty and very good at lying.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Not sure what would be the point in this display. If he wished to be deceitful, a second call to her in private would explain the first had been solely to deceive you and the affair would continue. You won't be around to hear all his calls. He has lost your trust and there is no substitute for time in order to earn it back (if that is even possible). There are no easy fixes, no quick or cheap ways to earn back trust that has been lost.


It's the same as a NC letter. Sure, they can go underground and maintain contact, but *this is the boundary*. If they cross it and you catch them, then its time for the consequences. 

I made sure to tell my fWW, that if she EVER, EVER, EVER, broke NC after the NC message was sent, that it was game over. No second chances, no more R, it was straight to D. Can she attempt contact with OM? Of course she can, but if I catch her, then we're done. The NC phone call/letter is the boundary, getting caught crossing it will take R off the table.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Not sure why you should have to witness that scene unless you want to.


 The point of witnessing it is that this would be consistent with him ending the affair and having no further alone time with her.


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## Mrs Chai (Sep 14, 2010)

Mr. Nail said:


> Not sure why you should have to witness that scene unless you want to. If he wants to pre-script the conversation that's his job. You can approve it if you want. The point I'm trying to make is that he made this mess and it is his job alone to clean it up. It's not the place to have a bonding experience. Now if you need to see the proof that's another issue. I suspect that the proof you need is something else.
> 
> Change of employment is a good example of him doing the heavy lifting.
> MN


I agree with Mr. Nail in the approving of the script. It is not your job to decide on what to say. In fact, him asking is kind of weird.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he is trying to be very upfront about him breaking off the affair and wants to leave no doubt.

But honestly, there's no need to get fancy with it. He knows what to say. He's a big boy. If you want to approve the script do so. If you want to hear it - be there to hear it. Just make sure he's remaining 100% open about phone records if you're concerned he's going to call again to rug sweep it with her.

Trust, but verify.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Given your story, SomethingsUp, I'm not sure what difference this would make. But, hey, would it hurt? Maybe you don't want to hear them interacting & this would be a down side (?).

Your WH will have to do some heavy, heavy lifting to redeem himself even a little, in my opinion. Calling her in front of you is just show.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> It's the same as a NC letter. Sure, they can go underground and maintain contact, but *this is the boundary*. If they cross it and you catch them, then its time for the consequences.
> 
> I made sure to tell my fWW, that if she EVER, EVER, EVER, broke NC after the NC message was sent, that it was game over. No second chances, no more R, it was straight to D. Can she attempt contact with OM? Of course she can, but if I catch her, then we're done. The NC phone call/letter is the boundary, getting caught crossing it will take R off the table.


The boundary regarding fidelity was made abundantly clear during the marriage ceremony. A clearer message regarding unacceptable conduct would be made by seeing his clothes and bags on the front lawn. Ejection would be my default position and she'd have to show some Road to Damascus style transformation to get back in. Wouldn't your wife already be aware that engaging in an affair was risking divorce? Does any unfaithful spouse not understand that divorce is at least a likely possibility? How would repeating the obvious make it more convincing? 
You could catch her once or thirty times. You aren't "done" until you are done. Your spouse has a pretty clear idea of where your limits are, regardless of any threats you might make. It may be beneficial for the offended spouse to set an ultimatum but I doubt offenders are typically very moved by them.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

TRy said:


> The point of witnessing it is that this would be consistent with him ending the affair and having no further alone time with her.


It would give the appearance of that. Maybe it feeds some need the offended spouse has of witnessing something that looks like fidelity and commitment from their offender spouse. As a practical matter, none of us live under constant surveillance and each of us will be exactly as faithful as we choose to be.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> The boundary regarding fidelity was made abundantly clear during the marriage ceremony. A clearer message regarding unacceptable conduct would be made by seeing his clothes and bags on the front lawn. Ejection would be my default position and she'd have to show some Road to Damascus style transformation to get back in. Wouldn't your wife already be aware that engaging in an affair was risking divorce? Does any unfaithful spouse not understand that divorce is at least a likely possibility? How would repeating the obvious make it more convincing?
> You could catch her once or thirty times. You aren't "done" until you are done. Your spouse has a pretty clear idea of where your limits are, regardless of any threats you might make. It may be beneficial for the offended spouse to set an ultimatum but I doubt offenders are typically very moved by them.



I'm so glad you made that first statement. It's so funny to me that married people sometimes say you need to establish boundaries. Exactly as you said, that was done during the marriage ceremony. Love, honor, cherish, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, sickness or health, better or worse, richer or poorer, blah blah blah. It pretty much covers everything. You take a vow that you are no longer a you. You are now a we. You don't get to run around like you did when you were a you. If that's what you want then you can't be a we.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> I'm so glad you made that first statement. It's so funny to me that married people sometimes say you need to establish boundaries. Exactly as you said, that was done during the marriage ceremony. Love, honor, cherish, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, sickness or health, better or worse, richer or poorer, blah blah blah. It pretty much covers everything. You take a vow that you are no longer a you. You are now a we. You don't get to run around like you did when you were a you. If that's what you want then you can't be a we.


To play Devil's advocate, not everyone takes vows. All marriages aren't religious ceremonies held in a religious sanctuary. In fact it is quite common to write one's own vows these days. If that was done, each generally has no idea what is contained within them prior to the ceremony so they have no idea what they are agreeing to. Marriage definitely means different things to different people and therefor there is not always a cut and dried boundary selection established at the ceremony. The spouses need to determine their own. 

Heck you had the same thing and are trying to work it out with your spouse, Don't you think that new definite boundaries need to be established and talked about, or do you just say "remember what we said when we were married all those years ago?" and expect them to abide by them? My STBXW couldn't even remember what she said or agreed to yesterday, let alone 20 years ago.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KingwoodKev said:


> I'm so glad you made that first statement. It's so funny to me that married people sometimes say you need to establish boundaries. Exactly as you said, that was done during the marriage ceremony. Love, honor, cherish, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, sickness or health, better or worse, richer or poorer, blah blah blah. It pretty much covers everything. You take a vow that you are no longer a you. You are now a we. You don't get to run around like you did when you were a you. If that's what you want then you can't be a we.


But those are not the boundaries LM was talking about. I don't think most of us would go straight to divorce over our SO talking to someone of the opposite sex.

But because of what the husband did, those new boundaries need to be made clear.

To the OP, if you can handle it, you should be there. If you can't, there should be no call.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

make sure he's on speaker phone. would hate to discover a dial tone he's speaking to.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I reviewed your old threads just now, and maybe I am missing something. I thought you were moving forward with a divorce/legal separation? Has that changed?

As for him wanting to make this call... I thought this ended months ago? Have you discovered that he's still been seeing her?

I'm not sure what difference it will make if he calls her in front of you or not, or what he says to her. His breaches of trust have been pretty constant, frequent, and egregious. What SHOULD happen when a man is trying to break off an affair is he should write/e-mail the affair partner detailing that the relationship is over, that he is insisting that there be no further contact of any kind with her, for any reason whatsoever. That the relationship itself was a mistake, never should have happened, and fully intends to move forward with rebuilding his marriage with you his wife. Then repeat again that there should be absolutely zero contact of any kind, INCLUDING no reply to the letter/e-mail he is sending this message via.

Honestly I would insist that he do this via e-mail/letter so that you have a copy of it in writing, so that it is 100% clear in the coldest, clearest possible terms, without the hidden messages that can often be delivered when delivered via voice, like using various inflections, key words, etc. that might tip off the other person to other feelings in some form.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Q tip said:


> make sure he's on speaker phone. would hate to discover a dial tone he's speaking to.


More like a very well-rehearsed show for her benefit.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And nothing will be stopping him from calling her the next day to restart it. That's happened before. Some cheaters reform and some don't. In other words, be very cautious.


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## SomethingsUp (Sep 30, 2014)

"We" ended up sending a letter instead but I had to write it and send it to him for him to send to her because he said he didn't know what to say, I know, pathetic.

Here's the letter:

*Dear xxxxxx,
The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly Kathy, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I’ve caused her and my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband that she deserves.
Because of the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.
Kathy has all the details of our relationship and she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,
xxxxxx*

BTW, he was really concerned with the part that said "Kathy has all the details of our relationship." 

We got into an argument over that, I said I thought you told me all the details? Then he said "he did", so then I asked what's the problem with saying that then? He said "nothing", then clicked send to her. Unbelievable hey?

I have know idea if she got it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You're confusing some people, including myself, about what you really want because of your multiple threads. You post this thread, then post about the NC letter, then in your other thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/249905-i-just-cant-seem-get-over-anger-disgust-i-feel-towards-him.html

You decide its over. He's a serial cheater anyway and doesn't deserve the precious, precious gift of R.


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## SomethingsUp (Sep 30, 2014)

lordmayhem said:


> You're confusing some people, including myself, about what you really want because of your multiple threads. You post this thread, then post about the NC letter, then in your other thread
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/249905-i-just-cant-seem-get-over-anger-disgust-i-feel-towards-him.html
> 
> You decide its over. He's a serial cheater anyway and doesn't deserve the precious, precious gift of R.


It's the roller coaster I've been on, I know I need to get off, I posted these threads on different days, just wanted to add what happened with this here. That's all.

I do feel crazy most days going through this, thank God I have my job and AA meetings to help me and you guys here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Good luck and best wishes for your future no matter what YOU decide this will be!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

SomethingsUp said:


> "We" ended up sending a letter instead but I had to write it and send it to him for him to send to her because he said he didn't know what to say, I know, pathetic.
> 
> Here's the letter:
> 
> ...


His anger would lead me to believe that you don't have all the details. Other than that, I would have held his feet to the fire and made him write the letter. All he has to do is say 'she wrote that and sent it' to get back with her, further underground. Part of making him write the letter, from my understanding, is to force him to confront this in writing. If you do it, he isn't confronting anything.

Good luck.


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## BrokenVows (Oct 12, 2012)

I understand wanting to hear the conversation first hand. As soon as I found out about my WH I demanded that he call her in front of me and end it, even though he said it was already over...of course it went to voice mail. I wanted to hear him say it & wanted to hear her reaction to make sure it really was over. He ended up doing the NC letter & bcc'd me. It sounded very similar to yours, only he wrote it. Anyway, just wanted to let you know I can relate. Best of luck to you.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

SomethingsUp said:


> It's the roller coaster I've been on, I know I need to get off, I posted these threads on different days, just wanted to add what happened with this here. That's all.
> 
> I do feel crazy most days going through this, thank God I have my job and AA meetings to help me and you guys here.


Can you just stick to one thread and consider it your ongoing public relationship journal of sorts? That will help everyone stay up to date and be more capable of providing better advice/commentary for you.


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