# Trying to Process It All



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I guess saying I was "OK" was a bit premature. And I suppose there will be more back-and-forth to come. For some reason, Sundays hit me the worst. Maybe because these days are traditionally "family" days for most folks. 

I was able to spend three days this week at the marital home. Mainly to see my son, although I did do some odd jobs around the house. It's still in my name, and whether she sells it or keeps it, I still feel responsible to help out as long as it's in my name.

I saw some of the "bad" side of her coming out this weekend. I had gotten really sweaty in the 100+ degree heat this week. I changed into some clean clothes I had brought along and asked her if I could wash my stinky ones. Our HE washer has had a noisy spin cycle since the day we bought it. When it kicked into spin mode, she came storming out to the utility closet, demanding to know what I had done wrong to make the washer so loud. Told me it "never" sounded like that when SHE used it! Just totally freaked out, wanting to know what she could do to make it stop. But she was doing it in the tone of voice, and using body language that most people reserve for saying the house is on fire, or maybe that there's a herd of rabid skunks loose in the kitchen. Just completely freaking out over a spin cycle! I feel like it was her passive-aggressive way of telling me she didn't like me doing laundry there. Whatever.

Some background might be in order. Last year, she decided I sucked at managing the finances, so she took over. Not in a collaborative, "let's work this out together" kind of way, but more of a "I can't believe how badly you've managed to screw things up" kind of way (her exact words, by the way). Mind you, we both have maintained good to excellent credit. Absolutely no disputable items in our credit report. All bills paid on time, all the time (with one or two exceptions that were no more than a couple of days late, so it didn't get reported on the credit report). Credit card debt was steadily declining. We didn't have as much savings as we wanted, but overall, I didn't think I was horrible at managing the finances. She's probably better at it, but I wasn't horrible.

Anyway, she took away all my credit cards except for one "emergency" card. Told me she "couldn't trust" me with them. Mind you, the ones I had in my wallet had zero balance on them for over a year, so it's not like I was out there buying boats and RVs with them. She just didn't like the fact that there was something out there she couldn't control.

Anyway, when I started considering leaving, I "stole" back one of the credit cards on which I was the primary cardholder. I don't like doing things underhanded like that, but the counselor had warned me that she was likely to try some kind of child custody shenenigans when I announced I was leaving, so I was advised to have some way available to pay for a lawyer if needed. Hence, I "stole" a card that belonged to me out of my wife's purse. (Fortunately, it hasn't come to that yet, but I still think it was prudent to have an emergency card available, just in case).

This weekend, I came clean about it. And I feel a little guilty about a couple of lies I told to hide the fact that I had the card up until this weekend. Now the only reason I had the card was because I can't trust my STBXW to not do something crazy with our son (like leaving and hiding where I can't find them, a specific threat she has made in the past), so I needed an emergency way to pay for a lawyer quickly if the need arose. And when you're dealing with somebody who has a personality disorder, it's not as simple as saying, "I need my card back in case you try to take off with our son...." So I had to engage in a little bit of deception from the time I obtained the card until I came clean about it this weekend.

But I still feel guilty for hiding from her the fact that I had "stolen" back my own credit card.

I am not normally the type to tell lies. But when you get browbeaten over silly things like the washer spin cycle, sometimes it's very tempting to just tell her what she wants to hear and move on. Wrong, but VERY tempting.

Also, our 4-year old son has been asking questions lately that help me see he's still struggling to process all of this. We're both being very careful not to burden him with more than he can handle (and as far as I can tell, she's behaving herself about this). I'm fortunate in that I have a job that requires a lot of travel, so we use that as an excuse for why I'm not home most of the time. But on days when I visit him, but then leave around his bedtime, I know it's confusing to him. It also can't help that she's already turned what used to be "my" bedroom into a play room for him. So he enjoys his playroom, but I'm worried he's conflicted about it too.

So this weekend, I was changing the oil in my car and he was sitting at a safe distance away at the edge of the driveway. Out of the blue he asks, "Daddy....do you live her any more?" I told him I didn't and asked him if it worried him. He admitted it did. I tried to reassure him that no matter what, Daddy would always come back to visit him as much as I could. And call him every night on the phone. But I can tell, he's trying to process it and he's not sure he likes the situation.

These two things together....me acknowledging to myself that I'm at least part of the problem because sometimes it's easier to lie than to face her unreasonable anger, and my son worrying about me not living there any more......those two things make me wonder sometimes if I did the right thing.

I know that I can't go back and live in that kind of environment any more. And I am working on better dealing with her verbal harangues, and as I feel more comfortable with that, I get more comfortable with being radically honest. Since we'll still be co-parents, I need to work on how to handle her BPD rages even if we'll no longer be married.

But worrying about my son's little heart and all that must be going on in his head is even worse. I hope he'll be OK. I've been told that the younger they are, the easier it is for him to adapt and overcome. And a LOT of people who grew up in abusive homes said they used to PRAY that their parents would get divorced. So I know that staying as things were was completely untenable.

But on quiet Sunday mornings like this, sometimes I'm not so sure.....


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Stop torturing yourself. We need Bandit and Conrad to whack you with their 2 x 4's. You did everything that you could to try and save your marriage. I know it is hard now, but your son will indeed survive this, and he will look back and appreciate the courage that it took for you to end the marriage.

BTW, how do you travel without a credit card? Pay cash for all of your meals?

Hang in there. It will be a roller coaster of emotions, but once you are on the other side, it will be clear that you made the right decision.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Stop torturing yourself. We need Bandit and Conrad to whack you with their 2 x 4's. You did everything that you could to try and save your marriage. I know it is hard now, but your son will indeed survive this, and he will look back and appreciate the courage that it took for you to end the marriage.
> 
> BTW, how do you travel without a credit card? Pay cash for all of your meals?
> 
> Hang in there. It will be a roller coaster of emotions, but once you are on the other side, it will be clear that you made the right decision.


The one "emergency" card she left me was also used for meals on the road. When I get my monthly per diem stipiend, we pay it off. The only problem was, this was a highly visible card that she checked the balance on almost daily, so it would have been more difficult to charge a $1200 retainer fee for an attorney without her noticing right away.

Since the other card had maintained a zero balance for so long, it was effectively "off her radar." We hadn't even been getting any statements for it. One of the deceptions I engaged in was switching the statements for that card to my PO box, so I could engage an attorney and pay whatever legal fees might come up without her knowledge.

I just HATE being deceptive! It's not in my nature! But I've been warned by so many people about the bizarre reactions that are possible out of people with BPD, that I was warned to not tip my hand in any way until I had all my ducks in a row. 

I'm sure she's at church right now telling all her friends what a scum I am because she "caught" me lying. Whatever. I really don't care what others think about me. I beat myself up quite enough already!


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, yeah....I've seen lots of reference to the 2X4's. What was the genesis of all this 2X4 talk? I must have missed that thread!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Hurt, thanks for giving us the update. I'm sorry you had such a bummer weekend. But, if your W is a BPDer as you suspect, it likely will get worse before you get the divorce finalized.


> One of the deceptions I engaged in was switching the statements for that card to my PO box, so I could engage an attorney and pay whatever legal fees might come up without her knowledge.


I agree with Sherman that you should stop beating yourself up over that. You are doing the right thing to get your ducks in a row and take back the power you had earlier given her so freely. If she is like other BPDers, she will become increasingly vindictive and mean. So far you've been playing softball. Hardball is just around the corner. Incidentally, did you ever get a copy of _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist?_ I ask because I believe it would be very helpful.


> I just HATE being deceptive! It's not in my nature! But I've been warned by so many people about the bizarre reactions that are possible out of people with BPD, that I was warned to not tip my hand in any way until I had all my ducks in a row.


You heard right. And you and I have been discussing the necessity of not tipping your hand for the past year -- Since last July 17.


> I'm sure she's at church right now telling all her friends what a scum I am because she "caught" me lying.


As we discussed this past April, any real infractions you commit are going to pale in comparison to the outrageous things you will be accused of. And, if she is a BPDer, she will be very convincing because her perceptions will be so distorted that she will actually believe most of it to be true. So just figure that you will have to kiss away most of your mutual friends. That's what the rest of us are having to do when going through this terrible separation process with a BPDer.

Hang in there, buddy! You are still doing well. VERY well. Yes, you felt miserable this past weekend but you are on track, doing the right thing for your son, and getting stronger every month. If you want to see how far you've come, Hurt, take a look at the posts you were writing last July, at which time you were so confused you didn't even know what you were dealing with. So be proud of what you've accomplished and how far you have progressed!


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Hurt, thanks for giving us the update. I'm sorry you had such a bummer weekend. But, if your W is a BPDer as you suspect, it likely will get worse before you get the divorce finalized.I agree with Sherman that you should stop beating yourself up over that. You are doing the right thing to get your ducks in a row and take back the power you had earlier given her so freely. If she is like other BPDers, she will become increasingly vindictive and mean. So far you've been playing softball. Hardball is just around the corner. Incidentally, did you ever get a copy of _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist?_ I ask because I believe it would be very helpful.
> You heard right. And you and I have been discussing the necessity of not tipping your hand for the past year -- Since last July 17.
> As we discussed this past April, any real infractions you commit are going to pale in comparison to the outrageous things you will be accused of. And, if she is a BPDer, she will be very convincing because her perceptions will be so distorted that she will actually believe most of it to be true. So just figure that you will have to kiss away most of your mutual friends. That's what the rest of us are having to do when going through this terrible separation process with a BPDer.
> 
> Hang in there, buddy! You are still doing well. VERY well. Yes, you felt miserable this past weekend but you are on track, doing the right thing for your son, and getting stronger every month. If you want to see how far you've come, Hurt, take a look at the posts you were writing last July, at which time you were so confused you didn't even know what you were dealing with. So be proud of what you've accomplished and how far you have progressed!


Thanks, up....its good to hear from someone who's been down this road. I'll look for that book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Its good to hear from someone who's been down this road. I'll look for that book.


You'll also find good tips at the "_Leaving a BPDer"_ board and _"Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" _board at BPDfamily.com. This problem is so widespread that that forum (which is targeted solely at the nonBPD partners) is growing by 20 new members a day.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Hurt,

The 2x4 reference is when you make an effort to appeal to victim status.

She will never "see" that you are her victim. Subconsciously, that will simply not compute.

What you can do is stand your ground, and observe.

Sounds like you are having difficulty with that - and it's causing you internal issues.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Hurt,
> 
> The 2x4 reference is when you make an effort to appeal to victim status.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm...not sure if I agree. I don't care whether she sees me as a victim or not. I.really don't care how she views me.

What I care about is looking myself - and someday my son - in the eye and knowing I.did my best. I ***THINK *** I did the best I could. Most days I'm OK. Today just wasn't one of those days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> Hmmmm...not sure if I agree. I don't care whether she sees me as a victim or not. I.really don't care how she views me.
> 
> What I care about is looking myself - and someday my son - in the eye and knowing I.did my best. I ***THINK *** I did the best I could. Most days I'm OK. Today just wasn't one of those days.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bull****.

Anytime you appeal to her sense of "reason", you want her to see you as the victim.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have much work to do.

Read this.

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Bull****.
> 
> Anytime you appeal to her sense of "reason", you want her to see you as the victim.
> 
> ...


I am not trying to reason with her at all...it's completely futile trying to reason with an unreasonable person. I'm trying to reason with myself here. I quit trying to get her to see my viewpoint long ago.

What I'm trying to work through is my response. Was there a better option than leaving?

I'm not intentionally being deceptive and I'm not OK.with you calling bulls...it on me. I am confused, but I'm making an honest effort to understand why I'm conflicted.

And I've read the article.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> I am not trying to reason with her at all...it's completely futile trying to reason with an unreasonable person. I'm trying to reason with myself here. I quit trying to get her to see my viewpoint long ago.
> 
> What I'm trying to work through is my response. Was there a better option than leaving?
> 
> ...


Really?

How does this sound to you... from 50,000 feet?

This weekend, I came clean about it. And I feel a little guilty about a couple of lies I told to hide the fact that I had the card up until this weekend. Now the only reason I had the card was because I can't trust my STBXW to not do something crazy with our son (like leaving and hiding where I can't find them, a specific threat she has made in the past), so I needed an emergency way to pay for a lawyer quickly if the need arose. And when you're dealing with somebody who has a personality disorder, it's not as simple as saying, "I need my card back in case you try to take off with our son...." So I had to engage in a little bit of deception from the time I obtained the card until I came clean about it this weekend.

Doesn't sound like "victim" to you?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Where was the marriage? Seems like a mommy, not a wife, married you.

You can't steal what is yours , so stop saying that.

If Hubs tried to take my credit cards (that are MINE and mine alone...from me because he didn't trust me with them? OMG! They've been mine for years and years...same as he has some for years), I'd tell him where to go...She didn't even try to communicate with you about her feelings/fears about the finances..she just became Mommy and you let her. Ew.

IMO, the only bad thing about this is your son's feelings  Seeing the little ones in sadness or turmoil or confusion makes my heart hurt. I couldn't stand our little one's questions about "where's daddy?" when we were separated.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Where was the marriage? Seems like a mommy, not a wife, married you.
> 
> You can't steal what is yours , so stop saying that.
> 
> ...


TG, it's interesting that one night at the counselors my STBXW started scolding me over something and the counselor stopped her and said "what I'm seeing here is a mother scolding a child..." My wife agreed, like she was proud of it! She said, "Exactly! I treat him like a child because he acts like one!" She had no idea how inappropriate her behavior was.

Look, I.was raised to believe you did whatever it took to keep the marriage together, even if you became a doormat. It took me a long time to see this for the fallacy it is. I am doing better. I've moved out and we've started working toward a divorce.

But some days I still revert back to doormat thinking. It doesn't mean I'm trying to play victim in a way that implies I'm getting something out of being a victim. I just want to be able to look that little boy in the eye someday and tell him Daddy didn't have any other choice. Because if I am going to put that little guy through this kind of pain, I damn sure want to make sure it was my only option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I know a lot of women who say what you wife said about treating you like a child, blah blah...  I hate seeing/hearing someone say, "Out with the kids! All FOUR! hahahaha" and they have 3 kids...and a husband. And all the other women laugh. Barf.

You are NOT a child. Your decisions and actions were just YOURS and since she couldn't control you, she took the "mommy" stance.

Oh well, her loss. Don't be a doormat. I understand wanting to save a marriage, but you didn't really have one, did you? 

Your son will be ok. But it's just so damn sad to face them sometimes, isn't it? that broke my heart more than anything. Spend some good time with him. do you get him at your place? What is the custody situation?


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

You see your wife views you as a child and you don't see how your appeals are as a victim?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> You see your wife views you as a child and you don't see how your appeals are as a victim?


I'm still learning. I did see myself as a victim until about 6 months ago. Now I'm out of the house, working toward a divorce, and have made it clear that I'm not coming back unless she decides to work on her issues. And maybe not even then since she could probably fake "progress." Are those the actions of a victim? Wouldn't a victim have just stayed and whined?

Having second thoughts based on my son's insecurities about the situation does not make me a "victim." It means I'm a father who cares about how his actions affect his son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I know a lot of women who say what you wife said about treating you like a child, blah blah...  I hate seeing/hearing someone say, "Out with the kids! All FOUR! hahahaha" and they have 3 kids...and a husband. And all the other women laugh. Barf.
> 
> You are NOT a child. Your decisions and actions were just YOURS and since she couldn't control you, she took the "mommy" stance.
> 
> ...


Right now, I'm staying with some college students (they are serious and sober...no parties or anything like that!) To save expenses. Since I travel frequently, it's an OK interim housing arrangement. Just until we sort things out. But it's not an ideal place for a 4-year old. So right now I visit him at the marital home.
I do understand that as the process moves along, I'll need to spend time alone with him. I do plan to be there we much as possible, to help cushion the blow to him. But it still hurts like hell to know it's bothering him and I can't explain it in a way that a 4-year old can understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> I'm still learning. I did see myself as a victim until about 6 months ago. Now I'm out of the house, working toward a divorce, and have made it clear that I'm not coming back unless she decides to work on her issues. And maybe not even then since she could probably fake "progress." Are those the actions of a victim? Wouldn't a victim have just stayed and whined?
> 
> Having second thoughts based on my son's insecurities about the situation does not make me a "victim." It means I'm a father who cares about how his actions affect his son.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, we're not going to see it the same way.

I wish you well.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Hey, we're not going to see it the same way.
> 
> I wish you well.


I think I can agree with that statement!

I am trying. Obviously I have a lot to learn, but I'm trying. She treated me as a child, I left. I refuse to continue being a victim.

And I've always respected you're insight, so I'm trying to understand where you're coming from...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> I think I can agree with that statement!
> 
> I am trying. Obviously I have a lot to learn, but I'm trying. She treated me as a child, I left. I refuse to continue being a victim.
> 
> ...


Have you read the link on the Victim Triangle?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Have you read the link on the Victim Triangle?


I did a few months back. But I shall read it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad, I probably deserved the 2X4 slap you gave me earlier today. Sometimes I relapse. But boy, if you had known me 2 years ago, you'd see how far I've come!

I still worry about my son's precious little heart. I wish I could do this without him feeling any pain.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

...


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> Conrad, I probably deserved the 2X4 slap you gave me earlier today. Sometimes I relapse. But boy, if you had known me 2 years ago, you'd see how far I've come!
> 
> I still worry about my son's precious little heart. I wish I could do this without him feeling any pain.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I so appreciate that sentiment.

One of the strongest arguments for us all growing up is so we can set that sort of example for our children.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I've actually done quite a bit of research lately on the effects of divorce on kids versus remaining in a high-conflict marriage. The research seems to validate what we all know intuitively...if the marriage is low-conflict, children have the lowest level of maladjustment when the parents remain together. However, if the marriage is high-conflict, children are better off if the parents divorce. I guess this is pretty intuitive, but it's interesting that social science research tends to validate that view.

There is one study that indicates that people who are most miserable in their marriages today will probably have a high level of satisfaction 5 years from now, so that study at least implies maybe it's best to stick it out.

In my own case, though, I believe I am dealing with a bona fide personality disorder, which makes the chances of improvement 5 years from now extremely unlikely. In fact, I've been dealing with this issue off and on for more than 5 years, and while there have been some temporary improvements, it also bounces back to high-conflict (and accusatory, and disrespectful, etc.).

I do carry a lot of guilt when I think about how my son will handle all this. The studies I mentioned above do give me some hope that I really am doing the right thing by him. I really did try to make it work. I'm not sure why I continue to feel guilty about all of this, but I do.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

How are you with boundaries?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> How are you with boundaries?


Weak, but getting better...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> When it kicked into spin mode, she came storming out to the utility closet, demanding to know what I had done wrong to make the washer so loud. Told me it "never" sounded like that when SHE used it! Just totally freaked out, wanting to know what she could do to make it stop. But she was doing it in the tone of voice, and using body language that most people reserve for saying the house is on fire, or maybe that there's a herd of rabid skunks loose in the kitchen. Just completely freaking out over a spin cycle! I feel like it was her passive-aggressive way of telling me she didn't like me doing laundry there. Whatever.


"I'm not ok with this high emotion"



hurtnohio said:


> Some background might be in order. Last year, she decided I sucked at managing the finances, so she took over. Not in a collaborative, "let's work this out together" kind of way, but more of a "I can't believe how badly you've managed to screw things up" kind of way (her exact words, by the way).


"I'm not ok with that sort of language"



hurtnohio said:


> Anyway, she took away all my credit cards except for one "emergency" card. Told me she "couldn't trust" me with them.


"I'm not ok with that."



hurtnohio said:


> Anyway, when I started considering leaving, I "stole" back one of the credit cards on which I was the primary cardholder. I don't like doing things underhanded like that, but the counselor had warned me that she was likely to try some kind of child custody shenenigans when I announced I was leaving, so I was advised to have some way available to pay for a lawyer if needed. Hence, I "stole" a card that belonged to me out of my wife's purse. (Fortunately, it hasn't come to that yet, but I still think it was prudent to have an emergency card available, just in case).


Yet, think about how awful it makes you feel to let someone violate your boundaries as a man in a manner such as that. When you actually DO strike back for yourself, you violate a personal boundary WITH YOURSELF - by stealing. Then you have to rationalize the behavior. Do you see how you are disrespecting YOURSELF in this process?



hurtnohio said:


> This weekend, I came clean about it. And I feel a little guilty about a couple of lies I told to hide the fact that I had the card up until this weekend. Now the only reason I had the card was because I can't trust my STBXW to not do something crazy with our son (like leaving and hiding where I can't find them, a specific threat she has made in the past), so I needed an emergency way to pay for a lawyer quickly if the need arose. And when you're dealing with somebody who has a personality disorder, it's not as simple as saying, "I need my card back in case you try to take off with our son...." So I had to engage in a little bit of deception from the time I obtained the card until I came clean about it this weekend.
> 
> But I still feel guilty for hiding from her the fact that I had "stolen" back my own credit card.


More fall-out from the symptoms above.



hurtnohio said:


> I am not normally the type to tell lies. But when you get browbeaten over silly things like the washer spin cycle, sometimes it's very tempting to just tell her what she wants to hear and move on. Wrong, but VERY tempting.


Yes, sacrificing your integrity will always... always... make you feel like less of a man.



hurtnohio said:


> These two things together....me acknowledging to myself that I'm at least part of the problem because sometimes it's easier to lie than to face her unreasonable anger, and my son worrying about me not living there any more......those two things make me wonder sometimes if I did the right thing.


You didn't.

But, it's never too late to start doing the RIGHT thing.



hurtnohio said:


> I know that I can't go back and live in that kind of environment any more. And I am working on better dealing with her verbal harangues, and as I feel more comfortable with that, I get more comfortable with being radically honest. Since we'll still be co-parents, I need to work on how to handle her BPD rages even if we'll no longer be married.


Tell her you're not ok with that behavior. Rock ribbed and solid. Emotionless. But, firm.



hurtnohio said:


> But worrying about my son's little heart and all that must be going on in his head is even worse. I hope he'll be OK. I've been told that the younger they are, the easier it is for him to adapt and overcome. And a LOT of people who grew up in abusive homes said they used to PRAY that their parents would get divorced. So I know that staying as things were was completely untenable.
> 
> But on quiet Sunday mornings like this, sometimes I'm not so sure.....


You should have stood up to her while you lived there. But, you didn't have the tools. Time to observe her from 50,000 feet and develop those same tools.

We're eager to share the experience with you.

Your little son is counting on you standing up to her. If you don't, he will likely end up living with her the rest of his life and turn into a conflict-avoidant miserable niceguy pleaser.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> "I'm not ok with this high emotion"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, Conrad, I did do this. Not as often as I should have (hence the disrespect that was generated), but I did stand up for my boundaries.

And here's how it would play out....

We were having a disagreement one night and she asked me why "you think you're smarter than anyone else?" (This is her standard put-down if I happen to disagree with her). I told her I wasn't OK with that kind of inflmatory statement, and that I was going to disengage for 30 minutes and come back when we could talk reasonably.

She jumped in front of the door as I was getting ready to walk out and forbade me to leave. I knew if I tried to physically move her out of the way, she would have claimed some kind of abuse on my part. So I stood there and calmly told her that I wanted to take a 30 minute break from the drama.

She followed me from room to room, continuing to badger me. I repeatedly told her I was not OK with her tone of voice, especially since our son was seeing everything. She said she wasn't doing anything wrong, that there was nothing wrong with her tone, and that our son would be just fine.

In a situation like this....she has manuevered in such a way that I can't physically get out without her calling the police. I repeatedly tell her "I'm not OK" with her behavior, and she refuses to stop. She even told me I was being too sensitive.

Two days later, our son asked me when we were alone if her "tone" had hurt me.

So, if someone repeatedly violates my boundaries, even after I tell them I'm not OK with it, what else can I do? I came to the painful conclusion that divorcing her was the only thing that would get her attention. And even the day I announced I wanted a divorce and moved out, I did give her an option....if she would go to individual counseling to work on her issues, I would CONSIDER not divorcing her. I was still going to separate for a while, but I would at least put a pause on the divorce talk. She again reiterated that she had done "nothing wrong" her exact words, and that she didn't "have any issues to work on." (exact words again) It became clear to me that there was no hope of her ever respecting my boundaries.

Another time I tried to enforce my boundaries, I used the "when you.....I feel..." formulation to try to break the ice. She sarcastically said, "Well, boo hoo hoo about your precious little feelings! You're just being too sensitive...."

Hey, I own up to the fact that I should have brought all this to a head a long time ago. I should have defended my boundaries long ago. But it's not as if I never tried.

A person with BPD does not look kindly on ANY type of boundaries being placed upon them. I don't want to use her disorder as an excuse for my failures - of which there are many. I mainly have failed MYSELF. And my son. But I am saying that using the tools that work in most relationships usually only engenders a stronger and more unreasonable response in someone with BPD.

Hence, my decision to leave.

And even as we begin to be co-parents instead of spouses, I do intend to continue standing up to her if she violates my boundaries or my son's. 

But just saying "I'm not OK with...." hasn't worked in our situation. You need to be able to enforce your boundaries if saying "I'm not OK..." is just met with derision. I needed to remove myself from the situation after her continued refusal to respect my most basic, fundamental boundaries.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm not ok with this.

If it turns abusive - which it did - you disappear.

For an hour the first time.

For days if need be.

For weeks if she still hasn't gotten the point.

Are you still paying the bills?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hurt,
What did you say/do when she freaked out about how loud the machine was?

I understand questioning yourself about breaking up the family. I don't understand the purpose in telling her about the card. Bringing up the card means you either:
- Say you did it and don't explain why which would make most spouses on the receiving end of that message angry.
- Say you did it and explain it was to protect yourself in case she did something crazy. That would make most spouses feel attacked/ridiculed. 

Just curious. Which approach did you take and how did she react? 

Since the intent was protecting your child, and she would never have discovered the card unless she initiated hostilities, what was the purpose in telling her? 





hurtnohio said:


> I am not trying to reason with her at all...it's completely futile trying to reason with an unreasonable person. I'm trying to reason with myself here. I quit trying to get her to see my viewpoint long ago.
> 
> What I'm trying to work through is my response. Was there a better option than leaving?
> 
> ...


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## jtut21 (Mar 21, 2012)

You are doing the best that you can and beating yourself up about it needs to stop. Everything will work out in time. Unfortunately sometimes that's what it takes.

All the best,

Josh


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