# Atlantic City "girls' vacation"



## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Hey , I'm a newbie poster, but read here from time to time.

This is another "girls' night out type" thread. Don't wanna type so much stuff that it makes no sense, wandering, and confusing readers, so I'll try to stay concise and give enough info.

I'm not a gambler, but used to player poker with high school friends back in high school days for fun. My wife was never a gambler, never did any of that in the first 19 years of marriage, but since 2006 it has become increasingly frequent. So did the "girl's night out" stuff after our only child left for college in 2005.

I'd always been ok with the night out stuff until the hours at which she returned home and the level of intoxification steadily increased. I wound up laying down some rules about that because years before, early in our marraige, she had done the same to me. It is odd how our roles seemed to reverse from what went on in early marriage and what goes on in late/current marriage.

We have our money, she has her money, and I have my money. She did save up for her trip. Funds are tight and I'm always putting my funds into our funds or helping out our daughter pay student loans for the job she now has that she went to college for.

I honestly can't remember the last time that we, my wife and I, went away for a vacation. I'm thinking 2002, but we took our daughter and her friend with us for a weekend. We do go out for afternoons, but this summer her weekend afternoons were filled with working a second job to pay for these get-aways or lunch type events with the "girls".

I've tried taking her out to local Native American run casinos around here. It's not a "we" thing. She goes her way to machines and tells me do the same. I don't get it. I asked, "Is this what you gals do? She said, yes". I played some then wandered about to find her at the bar chatting it up with the type of women that that look they are enjoying the men looking and hitting on them.

When she returns from Atlantic City, I'm will suggest we both put $10 a week away for our 25th anniversry in May of 2012. Not a large sum of cash but it should give me an inkling of what she thinks of us and where her priorities lie.

When we first got married and had our child, I gave up college and took a factory job. She worked part time and went to college. That paid off in her getting a good job then a career. Perhaps I'm resentful that I didn't get to complete college and went through a string of factory jobs and layoffs. Now-a-days I'm the "Yardman" with my truck and lawn care one-man-business. I'm also the fix-it-man for the two apartment houses we own.

As I mentioned before it does seem odd how we seemed to reverse roles in our marraige as time passed. When I was young and working mad overtime at the hot factories I liked to go out with boys on friday nights. She didn't appreciate that. Now I'm at home on friday and she is out with the girls after her waitressing job ended at 10 pm. Got home about 1am


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

This does not sound good to me. You two need to be spending 10-15 hours per week TOGETHER doing things you both enjoy for fun. Your marriage now has a second wind with your daughter grown, and you two need to be having fun together.

There is a huge chance that she is seeking attention from other men, and you should be filling her need for pleasure. Plan activities together. Your gut is telling you that this is wrong: listen to it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You need to find out exactly where she is supposed to be in Atlantic city, then without telling her, show up there.

It will be an eye-opener for you. be prepared.

All is not as she describes.

And reshuffle the amount of money the two of you put into the mutual pot. she has far too much play money compared to you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> This does not sound good to me. You two need to be spending 10-15 hours per week TOGETHER doing things you both enjoy for fun. Your marriage now has a second wind with your daughter grown, and you two need to be having fun together.
> 
> There is a huge chance that she is seeking attention from other men, and you should be filling her need for pleasure. Plan activities together. Your gut is telling you that this is wrong: listen to it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Right. 2002!? And then it was not you guys alone.

The GNO and the GNO vacations to "sin cities" are red flags sure but I cannot even get to those because the fact is you guys are not bonding together as a couple. That makes the rest very dangerous.

Getting increasingly drunk on her part speaks for itself. Wives behaving badly. I would say the same thing if the husband was doing this. She is waitressing until 10pm and then goes out to bars. "Hey honey, what time do you get off comes to mind." Not saying this happens but that is a cliche that plays itself out in the real real world often enough. maybe this is does not happen often. 

That said if I had a day job and my wife worked in the evenings it would be imperative for the marriage for the partners to make the most of the time they have together. My wife and I were on different shifts for a while and it was not good for our marriage.

Congrats on the child going to college.


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the congrats on child. Glad she landed a job in her field

Wife left this afternoon for waitress job and is then taking off to Atlantic City with 2 other women that work there. Will be coming back Thursday. It's about an eight hour drive. Not sure why are driving this time, as all other trips were by airplane.

Yeah, I've thought about showing up but don't have the time for the road trip. I do plan on checking out what is going on next time a local night out is scheduled that raises red flags in my head. Friend of mine told me I could borrow his vehicle if I want to. It's very inconspicuous compared to my old truck


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Yardman said:


> Thanks for the congrats on child. Glad she landed a job in her field
> 
> Wife left this afternoon for waitress job and is then taking off to Atlantic City with 2 other women that work there. Will be coming back Thursday. It's about an eight hour drive. Not sure why are driving this time, as all other trips were by airplane.
> 
> Yeah, I've thought about showing up but don't have the time for the road trip. I do plan on checking out what is going on next time a local night out is scheduled that raises red flags in my head. Friend of mine told me I could borrow his vehicle if I want to. It's very inconspicuous compared to my old truck


Might not be a bad idea to charge the airplane ticket for this to a CC if u lack the time to drive. I agree with the others, there are too many flags going off here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Yardman said:


> Thanks for the congrats on child. Glad she landed a job in her field
> 
> Wife left this afternoon for waitress job and is then taking off to Atlantic City with 2 other women that work there. Will be coming back Thursday. It's about an eight hour drive. Not sure why are driving this time, as all other trips were by airplane.
> 
> *Yeah, I've thought about showing up but don't have the time for the road trip. I do plan on checking out what is going on next time a local night out is scheduled that raises red flags in my head. Friend of mine told me I could borrow his vehicle if I want to. It's very inconspicuous compared to my old truck *


A little too much apathy my friend. Sorry. When we take the there is always tomorrow attitude we time just passes us by.

Good idea to fly up there and surprise her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to show and spend the time find out if you have a serious problem or not. Either way it is time well spent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

why not just ask her point blank? be very serious and tell her you deserve to know if she is seeking something you cannot or have not provided her. i have asked my wife, she answered with undeniable NO. I know her and she cannot lie to me, if she did i would see right through it.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

start planning your next vacation wothout her. save your pennies on the side then just plan a vacation maybe vagas.

what happens in vagas stays in vagas


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> start planning your next vacation wothout her. save your pennies on the side then just plan a vacation maybe vagas.
> 
> what happens in vagas stays in vagas


vagas? is that vagina and vegas rolled into one? :scratchhead:


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> start planning your next vacation wothout her. save your pennies on the side then just plan a vacation maybe vagas.
> 
> what happens in vagas stays in vagas



 Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind a few times. I'm sure I'd spend more time @ Hover Dam or renting a car to drive up towards area 51 

I asked her to call when she got there safe and sound. My cell rang as I was mowing lawn 3 today (about 11am). Looked @ the # and didn't pick it up. My initial instinct would have been to shut my rider mower off so I could hear her and talk, but I've been reading some here and decided, to just let it ring and listen to the message after I was done with my client's property.

First thnig I noticed was that I didn't hear the "Ra-Ho" cheering that I'd heard in the past when she called on a tram from airport to casino. Second thing I noticed was one her friends respnding to what she said, wish it was more clearly audabile, and that the message was a "matter of fact...yeah, we got here ok".

I'm glad I'm not where I was three years ago with this stuff, but disappointed that the results of her hours of work @ a second job are this. I don't totally understnd the importance of it. Years ago, my friends and I went to hunt deer @ a location in the Adirondacks that involed a long week end. 

We would leave on Friday and head home on Monday. I was the only gyt that bagged a buck there, 3 out of four years Most just got drunk at camp and never entered the forest (probably a good thing.. drunk in the woods that is). Yes, it was nice to be away from home, I called every evening from the SUNY school phone, which I repaid to my friend who was an alumni and secured the alumni house for the weekend.

Just saying that is strange how things have reversed for us. She used to say, Why can't you go hunting around here? It costs too much money to go up there hunting." I gotta wonder what she is hunting now...

Sex is ok, gone thru ups and downs... Maybe it's the caveman in me, probably a better term for it, but I pursured and made mad love to her before she left. 

Three years ago a friend had a son working in AC, We recruited him to observe or get info, they were not @ his place of employment and he was mad busy working.. What he said about these type of get-a-ways could go either way. 

From what I know about who she is with.... One is the restaurant owner, her husband a retired dea agent, the other is a waiteress all her life, husband is just an average joe like me. Never spent much time with any of her girl friends. That is a red flag, but how do I go about it stealthy?

Wife's main job is a manager for a vending service. She has like 10 guys and 1 woman working for her. She used to be [email protected] 6pm or so, but this summer due to her commitment to the waiterss job, she is home late when not waitressing for party money. That is the reason why she is home late...gotta do the book work I didn"t have time fo when the the other jobs calls. Often offers to pick up go-out-food, sometimes I take her up and have a movie waiting. I often wait....

. This is the area I will put my attenton @. Just show up in my bud's car, park in the other lot, and see what happens. There have been a few times she returned at dusk, 9pm mid summer, and seemed a bit buzzed for just picking up a fish fry and having a few drinks.

I'm glad the days of returning home @ 3am and later are over. Never would have had a problem with that unless she had not told me "friends" hubbies are controlloing and how happy she was I wasn't. I was working 3rd shift a factory at the time.

That was like 2004. Over half of them, waiteress friends @ the time are divorced now. 4 of 6 from the restaurant. I gotta think working at the restaurant is toxic for our relationship. Have told her that, and did shut down her working at a bar they, the restuarant owners, have at a local motel chain. Nope, that didn't last a month, don't actualy think it was do to my objections, just that the tips sucked.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Yardman said:


> Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind a few times. I'm sure I'd spend more time @ Hover Dam or renting a car to drive up towards area 51
> 
> I asked her to call when she got there safe and sound. My cell rang as I was mowing lawn 3 today (about 11am). Looked @ the # and didn't pick it up. My initial instinct would have been to shut my rider mower off so I could hear her and talk, but I've been reading some here and decided, to just let it ring and listen to the message after I was done with my client's property.
> 
> ...


Ok, so if she is out late "for party money" as you say and then she goes out to bars to party, you have troubles my friend.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> vagas? is that vagina and vegas rolled into one? :scratchhead:


no I'm just an awful speller/typer but I like the idea.:smthumbup:


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok, so if she is out late "for party money" as you say and then she goes out to bars to party, you have troubles my friend.


It was worse after our daughter left the nest. I understood where her head was then, hoped she would see things for herself, had to give her a wake up call....repeatedly...

Until I have concrete proof, I'll give her just give her enough rope to do as she pleases. I'll watch and see what she does, we've alredy done the boundary thing. 

At this point in time, I'm not showing her my cards, I'll continue to watch what she antee ups for, and where puts her money down. 

The restuarnt job pretty much ended this week as tourists go home. Ther are some events, Thanksgining, Christmas, New Years. Perhaps i'm projecting left alone feelings, but it sucks being alone or with relatives other than my wife on such holidays. Granted she makes a good cash incentive to work on them but damm, let us do one together. 

Sometimes I feel like one of our dogs... getting leftovers from the event I was not permitted to attend. Hell at least our dogs are in the house for the party, I've never been invited to a party at that restaurant. Never went or crashed either. Employees only.... Only time I entered the place was to unload boxes of girl scout cookies from my truck.


I was reading what I typed to correct obvious malfunctions and then it it hit me... I'm not a dog or piece of **** that deserves left over scraps.

I'm thinking I'll just make my own plans for the fall and winter holidays. No need to include her as she doesn't commit until the last day before. No need to inform about such plans either


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I can guarantee she's chatted up A LOT more men than she has let on. A LOT. Women go to places where it is expected to hook up with men because they want to hook up with men. PERIOD. No other reason. If they didnt want to hook up with men, they would do something else.

AMAZING that men are cuckoded into allowing their wives to something so inappropriate.

Spy. Please, for me. Spy. AC is a big town and it's a flight to do it on this trip. Too late. When she's back to local skanking, spy. Your best bet is to get someone she doesn't know her. Have him take notes. A little cell phone video.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Yardman said:


> It was worse after our daughter left the nest. I understood where her head was then, hoped she would see things for herself, had to give her a wake up call....repeatedly...
> 
> Until I have concrete proof, I'll give her just give her enough rope to do as she pleases. I'll watch and see what she does, we've alredy done the boundary thing.
> 
> ...


Yardman, sorry this is happening...but go to AC. Or at least hire a PI to watch her one of the nights she's there. Not cheap (prob $75/hr), but may be cheaper than a flight and a day off work. Presuming you know where she's staying? If you have her hotel and room # it's easy.

You mention "until you have concrete proof"...well go get some. You know where she is...she presumes you will not follow up on the details. Follow up. You may find nothing. Or you may have the concrete proof you need. Took me a matter of days to find the proof I needed. Just start looking, and seriously.

If not this time, please, next time. You can put an audio recorder in her car when she drives down next time, hear what is said on the phone and to her friends. Hell, you could fly down there, find her car and put one under the seat for the drive back. Might be nothing, might be scary...but might be enlightening as to what you need to do. Wish you luck, hope she's just enjoying free time with the girls, gambling a bit.

Why give her more rope? She has plenty to hang you and your marriage with.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

MrK said:


> Spy. Please, for me. Spy. AC is a big town and it's a flight to do it on this trip. Too late. When she's back to local skanking, spy. Your best bet is to get someone she doesn't know her. Have him take notes. A little cell phone video.


Agreed...hell, I'll go out there if you want and have a look around.

Wouldn't say this if the same tactics hadn't opened my eyes to the reality of the situation with my STBXW...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> why not just ask her point blank? be very serious and tell her you deserve to know if she is seeking something you cannot or have not provided her. i have asked my wife, she answered with undeniable NO. I know her and she cannot lie to me, if she did i would see right through it.


Oh dear. Let’s hope that’s not the most naïve statement ever. My wife is the most fabulous liar, if she was on stage she’d have won Oscars for her performances, her creativity, false body language ….


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Some husbands can pull their wife off of the man they are riding and not have concrete proof.

Now this is crude, but the insistance on concrete proof that there is a problem is being a tad lazy. We have no idea that she is cheating. I think she is just leading a life style that is risky and is certainly not entirely faithful to her husband. YMMV.


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

MrK said:


> I can guarantee she's chatted up A LOT more men than she has let on. A LOT. Women go to places where it is expected to hook up with men because they want to hook up with men. PERIOD. No other reason. If they didnt want to hook up with men, they would do something else.


Some women just like the chase and being pawed after.

It is up to each individual husband to set clear boundaries as to what is and is not acceptable.

Personally I dont care about a little flirting. (my definition of "little"). I trust my wife, and unless I saw her follow a guy into the club's bathroom, I wouldnt worry.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SockPuppet said:


> Some women just like the chase and being pawed after.
> 
> It is up to each individual husband to set clear boundaries as to what is and is not acceptable.
> 
> Personally I dont care about a little flirting. (my definition of "little"). I trust my wife, and unless I saw her follow a guy into the club's bathroom, I wouldnt worry.


Not to take this too far off base, but how much touching is ok for you?

I would not be crazy about the touching aspects. Certainly groping would not be acceptable. 

Maybe I can relate this to PUA. Where in the Kino escalation would you begin to have a problem?

I think one very valid point you make is that you don;t worry until you see her running off with the guy. This implies you are there with her. She knows you are watching.

In his case his wife isolates him away while she is gone. Again, I don't think she must be cheating. I think she is living a separate life apart from him and could be doing things he would be upset about. But for me the focus is that this is a very separate and major part of her life. They do not seem to have much time together as a couple.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Some husbands can pull their wife off of the man they are riding and not have concrete proof.


You have no idea how right you are. I literally read a post, in this very forum, where a husband caught a naked man climb off of his naked wife in bed and she still denied anything was going on. 

I kid you not.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

SockPuppet said:


> Personally I dont care about a little flirting.


OK. A little flirting as she runs into people over the course of her week. But to make it a habit of going to places where flirting is the REASON to go? With an additional reason being to take it further steps. A little flirting is where it is supposed to START in these places. And for 75% of the people there, it is an unsuccessful night if it only ends there.

No. These places are NOT for married women. Particularly for married women that show evidence of liking the attention from strange men MORE THAN THEY DO THEIR OWN HUSBANDS!! Fix the marriage first.


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Contacted my friends son that works in AC. He said no problem for keeping an eye on her. Called me tonight and said they don't have dates or prearranged meetings as far as he can tell. He said one gal is much more flirty than the other two. He said he'll keep an eye on them and if something was going on he would blow his cover and step in to say. "Hey, remember me.... ***** says hello... ."

Don't like having to keep tabs on my wife. She has changed much since our child has left and she had a hysterectomy. It could the hormone pills. I was there for all that. 

I do love her. It is time for me to think and plan for what I want and need out of life and then put it into action.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Hey - I'm no expert on any of this stuff . . .but you're laid back attitude on this is alarming. Coupled with your talk of planning a vacation without her - and see if she'll come along at the last minute. Parts of this sound like you're indifferent to whether your marriage works out or not. But if you're not indiffernet, and you want to keep her, get with the program and sort this out. Tell her no more GNO in AC (if I got this right she was leaving on Monday and getting back on Thursday??? - two FULL days in AC? ) and you too haven't had a vacation, alone, since 2002??? Hmmmmm. All the best . . .


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeah, I'm a laid back type of person. Many, many years ago I had anger problems.

I'm not going to ask point blank if she is running around, because that would blow my cover. I did so a few years ago, before I laid out some ground rules for what is approprite for having a drink or two after work, and why I had a gut feeling something was up or about to come up. She denied any affair or looking for one. Initially gave me a hard time about my thinking so until I said, "what did you think when I used to do the same."

The after work drinking has dramatically dimineshed since then. She has 1 or 2 and comes home at a reasonable hour. 

My issue is the vaca time with her friends is way out proportion to "us time", let alone an us vaca. That needs to be dealt with and I'll do so soon.

Thanks for all your input.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Yardman, any updates on this one?


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for asking. She agreed to no more girlcations until we have an uscation. Friend's son reported that there was nothing for me to be concerned about her actions. Gave me concern about one of her travel companions. Toxic friend?

Her hours working the second seasonal job have dropped off and we having been doing more together both outside our home and at home.

I stepped outside of my comfort zone and went shopping with her a couple of days ago. Purchased some fall things for the house, some gifts for daughter's B-day, and an item or two for each of us. I needed some socks and boxers, and she needed some new bras and panties. Instead of going our seperate ways and deciding what to purchase, I involved my self in choosing her items. It was fun and aside from the every day items we also chose a frisky item for home use.

Things have improved with our sexlife. Instead of once or twice a week it's been daily, with a day off here and there, and some days with multiple times.

After I went shopping, she agreed to go out for lunch and a fall drive. Hit a state forest area with gorgeous scenery, walked a trail, eat the picnic snack I made for brunch and went at it in the woods. We ate lunch at restuarant we'd never been to and then drove around and took another small hike. Snacked on some crackers and cheese, drank a couple wine coolers, and went at it again.

I'm thinking, "Damm, where has this woman been hiding for the past several years? Is this just a ploy or her part to alleviate guilt on her side of things?". IDK, it is great to have some fire back in our marriage and I'm not going to ask her those questions. It seems real to me, but I'll keep my eyes, ears, and 6th sense open.

Been reading here and paid attention to the suggested reading material. I like Athol's blog. Tried out his "L-spot", which seems a bit contradictory to the No Mr. Nice Guy theory, but it worked out to both of our benefits. I didn't tell her I'd done the laundry or mopped the floors. I wasn't home when she got home and discovered I'd done that. 

She was a tad shocked and wondered why. I replied that I did so cause she was busy catching up at work after her trip and that it just needed to be done. She appreciated the chore being done and suggested we go out to eat. I declined, told her I had dinner planned and to go to the local tavern and pick up some beverages. She returned rather quickly and with some corn on the cob from a farmers road stand. 

Drank a couple beers, ate grilled chicken and I ate some hot dogs too. She was all into it, had sex, and then we were craving sweets so I made brownies. We ate them with ice cream on top, watched a movie and went to bed. She woke me up in the morning by playing with my morning wood and jumping my bones. I was shocked and thrilled.

I've read about a term regarding such actions by a wayward spouse, can't think of it now.... think it starts with the letter "R"... Not sure if what I'm experiencing is that or actually a rekindled marriage with passion. I'd apperciate some replies on that topic.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I think you are starting to meet her needs for affection and quality time together, and she is responding by meeting your needs. So glad to hear that you two have revived your marriage!


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, lovesherman. I don't want or desire to be needy/clingy, nor do I want to be super Alpha. I think the woods shows my alpha side as does my way of fixing things around the house or apartment house we own.

Wife has been thru a hysterecatamy(sp). Was on female hormones and still is, but has been weening herself off the pills. I origainally thought the added estrgen would increase her sex drive, had my info arse backwards from what I've learned in the past year.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

They took her ovaries with the uterus? My wife had one too, several years ago. Since she didn't have the ovaries taken, she never had to have the hormones.


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