# East meets West.... or can it.... ever?



## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Ok I can't take anymore. My ex H is Asian, I'm American. We married very young, (or I guess I was young at 21, he was 30) but I did what I thought was right. He did too, I know. But we never really connected, although I loved him, and when I requested for him to go to counseling early on he refused and accused me of wanting to spend his money on therapists. He has an Asian ex-wife who took all his money before she left him. I've never been about that. We have 3 kids, I have a master's degree. I've always worked at least part-time and when kids were all in school I started full-time. We are amicable.

I have new partner, he is also Asian, although nowhere near the same part of Asia. Sorry, not a fetish, it's just where I live there are alot of different people here in my city and I have always felt a certain interest in Asia.

We have been together 3 years, talking about marriage although he is Hindu and I am Christian. We are both very open minded about that.

The problem is, I think it's just settling into that relationship phase where you realize the other person isn't perfect, and that starts to bother you. Well, him more than me. Before it was he who was completely infatuated and I wasn't completely sure. Now whenever I'm with his friends from his country, he criticizes me and/or questions me about my thoughts and feelings. By the way, he is also 7 years younger. 

I am at the point I completely have commited to him, because I love him and have never felt this way about anyone else. Not for lack of experience either, just because I love who he is. Also the sexual chemistry, even after 3 years, is like no other. But it's at the point where he is suddenly feeling distant to me, and won't talk about it. He says nothing is wrong, but he has been criticizing me lately and acting differently. I know his work is stressful lately, but so is mine.

when I ask him to talk about it, he can't. Same as my ex. So I'm asking..... is it the way he's been socialized? Is it only western men who want to talk about things and work things out? Because I want to, believe me. He is sooo sweet, kind and I feel I trust him above all others. But why can't he talk about things once in a while and work it out rather than burying all the resentful feelings, which is what destroyed my first marriage?


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

And please don't assume I'm stereotyping, it's just that everyone is telling me we are too different as far as expectations for a relationship. That's all.


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## Tru2mself (Sep 3, 2010)

It might be just that the newness of your relationship wore off for him ,younger guys are usually about quantity, not quality. Most likely he already set his eyes on someone else . Sorry Im telling it to you straight forward , I just refuse to be naive about it any longer.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Tru2mself said:


> It might be just that the newness of your relationship wore off for him ,younger guys are usually about quantity, not quality. Most likely he already set his eyes on someone else . Sorry Im telling it to you straight forward , I just refuse to be naive about it any longer.


Yes, and normally, that's what I would think too. But it's not the case. He works 70 hours a week and calls several times a day. And I trust him. He just is more _testy_ about things now, I don't know. He's not pulling back on sex, or affection (he is the most affectionate guy I've ever known). Just when I push him to examine the relationship, he will not. To him, he loves me, don't analyze it. Those were his words.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Tru2mself said:


> It might be just that the newness of your relationship wore off for him ,younger guys are usually about quantity, not quality. Most likely he already set his eyes on someone else . Sorry Im telling it to you straight forward , I just refuse to be naive about it any longer.


And also, don't just leave it for the men to get bored easily! We can too. I am an attractive person, and I have many options besides him. It's just that after 3 years, that part hasn't worn off. I just don't want the relationship inertia to set in.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

FWIW, I believe that Western men have been dragged into "talking things out" kicking and screaming the whole way. The *enlightened* man will talk things out, whether they feel it necessary or not. I'm 52..and I sure as hell don't believe my parents sat down and discussed relationship issues, lol. 
Men can get snippy for a variety of reasons. And with his unwillingness to discuss things, you're left to your own devices to try to figure things out. That's a virtual impossibility, if you ask me. It might SEEM like I can read minds, but the reality is that I can't. 
I guess you'd just have to sit down and list all the reasons why he could be acting like this, and take them one at a time. Talk to him about his day, what's going on at work, etc....if you believe that he's stressed at work. I haven't met the man yet that didn't want to get THAT off his chest. If that's not it, go to #2. 
There are plenty of Western men that still won't discuss their feelings, or what's wrong. Forums like this one are full of such posts. To be fair, there are some women like that as well. You didn't mention his age, just that he's 7 years younger. Maybe it's a maturity thing? Maybe he needs to mature a little and realize that the things that you found charming in the beginning are the things that can bug you once the "new" has worn off the r-ship, and that's when you realize you love the person in spite of those things?
I don't know...this one is challenging, since he won't open up. But plenty of men have the attitude of "I love you, don't question it". Makes it hard to get to the bottom of things sometimes.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I am European, my husband is Indian American. Technically he is also Hindu, although he is an atheist. We met in America.

In reply to your question whether Asian men are less communicative, to understand that I would suggest you go and watch a few Bollywood movies (also considering the fact that I suspect these are movies from your boyfriend's home country).

What is technically considered as chick flicks in the west those movies are totally mainstream in the East. Bollywood would not survive and would have to drastically change their ways, for lack of a better word, if only women went to watch theses movies.

You will notice several things. For example it's perfectly acceptable for men to cry in front of women and it is not considered a sign of weakness. Also the signs of strength for a guy in the East are more about principle and intellect rather than the physical. 

Given those factors I don't see how Eastern men are any less communicative than their Western counterparts. (that statement is applicable to any non Islamic eastern guy, because Islamic men are governed more by their religion than culture). 

However what happens is that in most American-Asian relationships that I and my husband have known (where a woman is American) a few other factors crop up. Most Asian guys have a hard time integrating the two cultures. They are torn trying to integrate the Western ideals with their Eastern upbringing. In such cases they tend to ignore something you are doing that would be considered as bad/wrong by them, however they will still feel bad about it inside. They will not say what is wrong, however that will not stop them from feeling bad inside. Now that same pent-up resentment gets to the fore when you are making that same mistake in front of his friends, thereby provoking a reaction out of him just then. 

When I read your case to my husband who had several American girlfriends before (I am European), he point blank told me that it was your fault LOL When I asked him to clarify he told me to ask you how much of your BF's culture do you know and how much you are adjusting to his culture as he is to yours. Remember, no successful cross-cultural relationship can be based upon one sided adjustment. You might say "well, we live in America", but then you will end up with a guy who will bottle up his feelings and so you should not be grumbling. 

My husband also pointedly said that one way to fix this would be to find out about your BF's culture, ask him his PoV on things and be more willing to talk and adjust to how he may perceive things. Some aspects of Eastern cultures might seem odd to you and me, but understand that it goes both ways.


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Ok I can't take anymore. My ex H is Asian, I'm American. We married very young, (or I guess I was young at 21, he was 30) but I did what I thought was right. He did too, I know. But we never really connected, although I loved him, and when I requested for him to go to counseling early on he refused and accused me of wanting to spend his money on therapists. He has an Asian ex-wife who took all his money before she left him. I've never been about that. We have 3 kids, I have a master's degree. I've always worked at least part-time and when kids were all in school I started full-time. We are amicable.
> 
> I have new partner, he is also Asian, although nowhere near the same part of Asia. Sorry, not a fetish, it's just where I live there are alot of different people here in my city and I have always felt a certain interest in Asia.


Yes...you have a fetish.

You have always felt a certain interest in Asia and you just happen to hook up with Asian men? ((cough cough))



> We have been together 3 years, talking about marriage although he is Hindu and I am Christian. We are both very open minded about that.


This will be a disaster unless one of you changes religions.



> The problem is, I think it's just settling into that relationship phase where you realize the other person isn't perfect, and that starts to bother you. Well, him more than me. Before it was he who was completely infatuated and I wasn't completely sure. Now whenever I'm with his friends from his country, he criticizes me and/or questions me about my thoughts and feelings. By the way, he is also 7 years younger.


Jesus.

This shouldn't even be a question.

The man is 7 years younger than you?

RUN.



> I am at the point I completely have commited to him, because I love him and have never felt this way about anyone else. Not for lack of experience either, just because I love who he is. Also the sexual chemistry, even after 3 years, is like no other. But it's at the point where he is suddenly feeling distant to me, and won't talk about it. He says nothing is wrong, but he has been criticizing me lately and acting differently. I know his work is stressful lately, but so is mine.


What are you in love with exactly? I am asking because the description you give here is not of someone who is _loveable_. What does he do, other than screw you right, which makes you feel good about being with this man?

Let me guess - You're white right?

Let me clue you in on something...When white women hook up with ethnic men they fail to realize that, in most cases, the man is fetishizing them. They'll enjoy the stares and glares you'll get when he has you out in public on his arm. He'll gladly screw you and the sex will be ever so exciting. When you are not screwing, you'll have all sorts of problems -criticizing...arguing....emotional distance.

Sound familiar?




> when I ask him to talk about it, he can't.


Sure he can - but he chooses not to.



> Same as my ex. So I'm asking..... is it the way he's been socialized? Is it only western men who want to talk about things and work things out?


Western men can be closed off too.



> Because I want to, believe me. He is sooo sweet, kind


Really? Then what sort of drama brought you to start this thread?

I don't think you're being honest here.



> and I feel I trust him above all others.


Why?

He criticizes you IN FRONT OF HIS FRIENDS. They are likely filling his head with all kinds if negative input about you. 



> But why can't he talk about things once in a while and work it out rather than burying all the resentful feelings, which is what destroyed my first marriage?


You're right about resentment being a poison to the marriage.

The thing is - you are starting another relationship with the same mistakes you made the first time.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Actually there is one relatively simple way of finding out whether what I wrote is applicable to your case. All you would have to do is show him my post and ask him what he thinks about it.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

ChrisInNOVA said:


> Yes...you have a fetish.
> 
> You have always felt a certain interest in Asia and you just happen to hook up with Asian men? ((cough cough))
> 
> ...



Let me say just one thing here:










(I am not sure whether those things dangling are hands or breasts - I mean to have my hands dangling :rofl

Are you serious, Chris? He is Hindu, so RUN? He is not white, so he fetishizes her as a white woman?

Let me repeat myself here:


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

ChrisInNOVA said:


> Let me guess - You're white right?
> 
> Let me clue you in on something...When white women hook up with ethnic men they fail to realize that, in most cases,* the man is fetishizing them. They'll enjoy the stares and glares you'll get when he has you out in public on his arm. He'll gladly screw you and the sex will be ever so exciting. When you are not screwing, you'll have all sorts of problems -criticizing...arguing....emotional distance.*Sound familiar?
> 
> ...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm surprised all of Asia's diversity can be so easily grouped together when so many cultures are simply vastly different.

I wonder if the ignorance is simply well, based on ignorance, or just deliberate.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Rob774 said:


> Here that knocking??? That the 60's calling!!!


:rofl: Actually she'd be obsolete even by the 60's standards.

60's = hippies = knowledge of hinduism = someone who wouldn't say "This will be a disaster unless one of you changes religions." regarding a Christian-Hindu relationship.

I am still traumatized by finding out that all this time I've been fetishized :rofl:


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

You can deny the truth all you want, but this woman will eventually have to know that people do fetishize each other in the dating world.

I am married now but I have dated inter-racially. I have dated men of all races & I made damned sure that I avoided people with these issues... People who just wanted a "different flavor" chick on their arm to flaunt around in front of their friends and piss society off....they're the most racist and most resentful of all.

The things she says he does totally fits into the behavior pattern of people who have that issue.

If you are an Asian, Black, Indian, (insert random ethnicity here) Woman or Man, do not date someone of a different ethnicity who deliberately sought you out because you are Asian, Black, Indian, (insert random ethnicity here). They may not tell you openly that they were willing to date you because you are Asian, Black, Indian, (insert random ethnicity here) but there are ways you can tell.

These people have issues.

That is all I meant.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

ChrisInNOVA said:


> You can deny the truth all you want, but this woman will eventually have to know that people do fetishize each other in the dating world.
> 
> I am married now but I have dated inter-racially. I have dated men of all races & I made damned sure that I avoided people with these issues... People who just wanted a "different flavor" chick on their arm to flaunt around in front of their friends and piss society off....they're the most racist and most resentful of all.
> 
> ...



I am sorry Chris but you yourself *coughed, coughed* at the OP for her choosing Asian men to being equal to her having a fetish (even though the OP has denied it and explained being yet again with an Asian man as random occurrence).

So going along your way of thinking, Asian men should avoid the OP because she fetishizes them.

And now you are turning the tables and saying that he should be the one avoided because "he does totally fits into the behavior pattern of people who have that issue (fetishizing a woman he is with)" ?

What you call issues in your post are not issues. Those are cultural differences. And seems that all races have them, what you call issues and what I call different cultures.

Maybe what you are really trying to say here is that Intercultural/Interracial relationships, according to you, should be disallowed. Because of what you call issues and what I call cultural differences. But that would be completely over the line, wouldn't it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The missus and I are both offsprings of so-called "inter-racial" couples, what you would call "mutts". Are we to say that our parents/grandparents fetishised each other then? :rofl:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> The missus and I are both offsprings of so-called "inter-racial" couples, what you would call "mutts". Are we to say that our parents/grandparents fetishised each other then? :rofl:


You seem like a fetishised guy. Or, at least a fetishished dude.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> I am European, my husband is Indian American. Technically he is also Hindu, although he is an atheist. We met in America.
> 
> In reply to your question whether Asian men are less communicative, to understand that I would suggest you go and watch a few Bollywood movies (also considering the fact that I suspect these are movies from your boyfriend's home country).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

However, why is your H assuming I know nothing about his culture? Because I'm American?

I know a lot... I'm with his family and friends all the time, eating their food, celebrating their holidays, and learning the language. I'm just curious about this assumption.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> However, why is your H assuming I know nothing about his culture? Because I'm American?
> 
> I know a lot... I'm with his family and friends all the time, eating their food, celebrating their holidays, and learning the language. I'm just curious about this assumption.


I just asked him that . He says: "Apologies. Yes, I was generalizing. During my first date in the US I was asked whether we had cars in India followed by whether we could see the Moon from there." (that was in college)

From my side I can say that I know a lot about Indian culture, however even if I "know" something, but I don't understand/realize the implications of that "knowledge" (the reasons behind it, the workings of it), that's not doing me any good, unfortunately.

For example, what Chris mentions, men "flaunting" their women in front of other men. Intellectually I "know" that this is what happens in any "male culture". I might get offended, because that sounds like I am an object, a gadget that a guy is boasting to another guy about. However, I realize that my man is proud that he is with me for many reasons, including the one that in their "male culture" being with someone who looks great/is attractive translates to "oh, he must be a "someone" = he is successful in life".


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

reachingshore said:


> I am sorry Chris but you yourself *coughed, coughed* at the OP for her choosing Asian men to being equal to her having a fetish (even though the OP has denied it and explained being yet again with an Asian man as random occurrence).


From what she said - including her denial, it wasn't random in my eyes.



> So going along your way of thinking, Asian men should avoid the OP because she fetishizes them.


Yes.




> And now you are turning the tables and saying that he should be the one avoided because "he does totally fits into the behavior pattern of people who have that issue (fetishizing a woman he is with)" ?


Yes. When 2 people with that issue hook up there's a clear and obvious pattern. The woman usually "tries & tries" and the man usually does exactly what the OP's man is doing.



> What you call issues in your post are not issues. Those are cultural differences. And seems that all races have them, what you call issues and what I call different cultures.


Of course different cultures are...different. Beyond that, I have no idea what your point is with this statement.



> Maybe what you are really trying to say here is that Intercultural/Interracial relationships, according to you, should be disallowed. Because of what you call issues and what I call cultural differences. But that would be completely over the line, wouldn't it?


Strawman much?

I said exactly what I meant. I wasn't "trying" to say anything. I was very clear with what I said...particularly with my closing comment.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

> > What you call issues in your post are not issues. Those are cultural differences. And seems that all races have them, what you call issues and what I call different cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I meant was that just because someone acts/thinks differently/not according to your standards that doesn't make them a prime candidate for therapy.



> Strawman much?
> 
> I said exactly what I meant. I wasn't "trying" to say anything. I was very clear with what I said...particularly with my closing comment.


No, not strawman. That's how your PoV on interracial/intercultural relationships came across.

I am assuming the closing comment you are referring to is:



> You're right about resentment being a poison to the marriage.
> 
> The thing is - you are starting another relationship with the same mistakes you made the first time.


In the context of your whole post this comment is understood as you saying the resentment in OP's relationships comes directly from the fact that she is in a intercultural/interracial relationship.

I am arguing that it's not the case. OP has resentments from her previous relationship because of lack of communication and not being able to communicate effectively with a person who essentially "doesn't speak her language". And that can happen in any relationship.


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

To be clear - I am not opposed to romantic relationships involving persons from different ethnicities / cultures (or any other romatic relationships between consenting adults.) My marriage falls squarely into that category & I have dated inter-culturally / inter-ethnically all my life.

What I am specifically addressing is this: There are people who, for not entirely positive / healthy reasons, deliberately seek out people from other ethnic groups for dating & sometimes marriage. It is my opinion that anyone who wishes to have a healthy romantic relationship should avoid these people.

Again, romatic envolvments which two (or more) consenting adults choose to engage in is not for me to oppose or condone. 

I shared my honest opinion about the OP: She deliberately selects Asians. I believe that she does this for reasons which may not be entirely healthy. Unfortunately for her, she also runs the risk of having the same thing being done to her. And, as we can see, the results will be disasterous.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> You seem like a fetishised guy. Or, at least a fetishished dude.


Probably why I ended up sticking to my own "mutt" race.

Actually now that you mention it, there is a stereotype in globalist popular culture that goes "Mixed blood is the future!", "Mixed blood is better because of less chance of inbreeding", "Mixed kids are the prettiest!", etc etc. Rather lame stereotypes really, I guess due to racism and racialist titles such as "mutts" (meaning mixed-bred dogs) imposed on mixed folk, society due to guilt is now going the opposite way. Both extremes are f--ked up, it's STILL about WHAT you are, not WHO you are.



ChrisInNOVA said:


> To be clear - I am not opposed to romantic relationships involving persons from different ethnicities / cultures (or any other romatic relationships between consenting adults.) My marriage falls squarely into that category & I have dated inter-culturally / inter-ethnically all my life.
> 
> What I am specifically addressing is this: There are people who, for not entirely positive / healthy reasons, deliberately seek out people from other ethnic groups for dating & sometimes marriage. It is my opinion that anyone who wishes to have a healthy romantic relationship should avoid these people.
> 
> ...


You should have said that in the beginning, your initial post really came across the wrong way as you have noticed - nothing short of racist bigotry and prejudice.


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

You don't get to dictate how I express myself or when I should have said anything

What I have noticed is the tendency of some of the folks here to leap to conclusions & the tendency of others to read what they think is being said rather than what has actually been said.

All of my posts are completely congruent - they mesh together perfectly. I have retracted nothing nor have I added anything. This last post simply summarizes the very first one and all the others.

RIF

Oh - and don't think I didn't notice how you nor anyone else addressed the very legitimate point of fetishizing and its effect on a relationship. 

You strawmanned my words and took the key point off the rails.

Either way - the OP will continue to go round in circles with various Asian men until she figures it out.


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

Just a note that sexist and racist generalization are against the forum guidelines on TAM.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...117-posting-guidelines-please-read-first.html


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