# Quick legal question



## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

In the U.S. can an adult step child live in your home without both parties permission? I have told my DH and SS that I want SS 19 out of our house. DH says he doesn't have to leave whether I want him there or not because our house is under his name. We are married and were when we bought the house 9 months ago.. do I have any legal rights as to who (adults) is living in our home? I do not have the optiin to take my other 2 kids and leave like I would prefer..if u need explanation please read my other posts to understand my situation.
Thank you for any advice.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Yes he can and no you do not have any legal right to kick him out if the house is not solely in your name.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

2&out said:


> Yes he can and no you do not have any legal right to kick him out if the house is not solely in your name.


Okay..thank you


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If it’s his house legally (however that works in your state) I would think you have no say about his child living there but even if it were jointly owned my guess is you couldn’t kick him out as long as your husband said he could stay. IOW, you’re stuck with him as long as you’re married to his dad.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Truthfully, nobody here is able to give you legal advise. If this is important enough, you are well advised to contact an attorney in your area. They are better equipped to give you an answer tailored to your specific situation.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Unless he is violent, then I’d imagine the police would get involved, it doesn’t sound like you can just force him out, even if he is now an adult.

Do you have any family that you can stay with?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> In the U.S. can an adult step child live in your home without both parties permission? I have told my DH and SS that I want SS 19 out of our house. DH says he doesn't have to leave whether I want him there or not because our house is under his name. We are married and were when we bought the house 9 months ago.. do I have any legal rights as to who (adults) is living in our home? I do not have the optiin to take my other 2 kids and leave like I would prefer..if u need explanation please read my other posts to understand my situation.
> Thank you for any advice.


Upon divorce it is going to depend on what state you are in whether you are entitled to half of that home since it was purchased after you got married and depending on what contributions you made to it, whether sweat equity or actual money or paying bills. But I will say I have never heard of any thing legal where you can kick the kid out although I'm thinking maybe we should put something legal on the books about it, slackers being what they are these days for longer than usual. He's not all that old though.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

2&out said:


> Yes he can and no you do not have any legal right to kick him out if the house is not solely in your name.


Good luck with that one. If she gets the police there and the DH says he can stay, the police can't really do anything unless the SS has assaulted someone or something like that.

If both her and DH agree, then yes. But all DH has to do is say "this is my house too and I say he stays".


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

The answer depends in part on whether the home is held as tenants in common, tenants by the entireties, or some other tenancy in your state. Plus, there's an overlap with the marriage laws of your state. It's a good idea to get a paid answer to the question.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why is the house just in his name?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> In the U.S. can an adult step child live in your home without both parties permission? I have told my DH and SS that I want SS 19 out of our house. DH says he doesn't have to leave whether I want him there or not because our house is under his name. We are married and were when we bought the house 9 months ago.. do I have any legal rights as to who (adults) is living in our home? I do not have the optiin to take my other 2 kids and leave like I would prefer..if u need explanation please read my other posts to understand my situation.
> Thank you for any advice.


This depends on the reasons you want him out. If for example he's a danger to you or your children you can go to court and get him out of your house. You would have to talk to an attorney about this.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> In the U.S. can an adult step child live in your home without both parties permission? I have told my DH and SS that I want SS 19 out of our house. DH says he doesn't have to leave whether I want him there or not because our house is under his name. We are married and were when we bought the house 9 months ago.. do I have any legal rights as to who (adults) is living in our home? I do not have the optiin to take my other 2 kids and leave like I would prefer..if u need explanation please read my other posts to understand my situation.
> Thank you for any advice.


This is why you really need to get a consultation with a lawyer in your area.

A professional could really help you out in ways you, or us internet weirdos, probably can't even think of.

You actually might just be able to get sole custody of the children and the house while your soon to be ex and idiot stepson get the boot.

Is your husband related to or connected with judges in your area?


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Why is the house just in his name?





ConanHub said:


> This is why you really need to get a consultation with a lawyer in your area.
> 
> A professional could really help you out in ways you, or us internet weirdos, probably can't even think of.
> 
> ...


I had a zoom meeting with a local attorney a week ago. That cost me almost $300. Every email or phone call is an addition $75. I don't have the extra money, we can barely keep afloat as it is. With the inflation of prices, Ive had to cut back on everything..including food. 
No my husband isn't related or friends with any of the judges..he holds a good position with a huge, well known religious Healthcare system..and will be backed up by his associates 100%. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered to support him financially if we were to divorce.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Why is the house just in his name?


It was the easiest way to get financed. If I were added to the loan, we would have had to add in my minimal income and student loan debt..which wouldn't have balanced out.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You could have been put on the deed (so that you own the house jointly) without having to be part of the mortgage when it was financed. Those are two separate things. As it is, he owns the house separately so that asset is entirely his. That’s not good for you.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You could have been put on the deed (so that you own the house jointly) without having to be part of the mortgage when it was financed. Those are two separate things. As it is, he owns the house separately so that asset is entirely his. That’s not good for you.


He refused to put me on the deed..said I only wanted to be on it so that I could take house if I wanted to divorce him


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He refused to put me on the deed..said I only wanted to be on it so that I could take house if I wanted to divorce him


It's unfortunate that you were not a member here then. We could have helped you with that. Having said that, the real answer has to come from someone in your jurisdiction, preferably a divorce attorney. Not every state treats these things the same way. Even non-rent-paying tenants have rights in some jurisdictions.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He refused to put me on the deed..said I only wanted to be on it so that I could take house if I wanted to divorce him


That’s the real reason you weren’t part of it. You couldn’t have taken the house but you would have had a stake in it if you had been on the deed. Now you’re without part of an important asset. Sadly.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He refused to put me on the deed..said I only wanted to be on it so that I could take house if I wanted to divorce him


How mercenary. People who think this way are not good partners. In a marriage everything needs to be joint. The stuff that is to be excluded from that gets carved out up front in a pre-nup. 

I assume you can't get DH into marriage or family counseling to deal with all the issues. So it's time for you to step up, get a better job & finance your own way out of this mess.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He refused to put me on the deed..said I only wanted to be on it so that I could take house if I wanted to divorce him


With regards to decisions about the house, that does exclude you.

However, anything paid on the house, whether your name is on the deed or not, once you were married was done so with marital money. Therefore you still have a claim to some of the equity in the house, unless it was paid for prior to getting married.

But if mortgage payments were made while married, that is marital assets being used to pay for it, and you are entitled to 1/2 of that value.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Openminded said:


> That’s the real reason you weren’t part of it. You couldn’t have taken the house but you would have had a stake in it if you had been on the deed. Now you’re without part of an important asset. Sadly.


If the house was paid for prior to marriage, correct.

If not, then whether her name is on the deed or not, marital money was used to pay the mortgage and she does have her claim for that.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> How mercenary. People who think this way are not good partners. In a marriage everything needs to be joint. The stuff that is to be excluded from that gets carved out up front in a pre-nup.
> 
> I assume you can't get DH into marriage or family counseling to deal with all the issues. So it's time for you to step up, get a better job & finance your own way out of this mess.


I have a good job and career. I just can't work full time to make more money because I have 2 kids that are homeschooled and it wouldn't be beneficial in the event of a divorce because the amount of time u spend as caregiver holds a lot of weight in custody decisions in my state and county. The more I work and am not caring for my children, the less likely I would be given full custody.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> It was the easiest way to get financed. If I were added to the loan, we would have had to add in my minimal income and student loan debt..which wouldn't have balanced out.


Even if the home is in his name only, as his wife, you are most likely considered 50% owner were you to divorce.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Even if the home is in his name only, as his wife, you are most likely considered 50% owner were you to divorce.


If her name is not on the deed and/or mortgage, then no. She's an occupant and nothing more. There is even a document called "Joint Tenancy with Right to Survivorship" which means the house would go to her in case her husband predeceased her. But she's got squat if she isn't on any documentation.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Even if the home is in his name only, as his wife, you are most likely considered 50% owner were you to divorce.


This has been my experience, however, only what 1/2 of equity that was accumulated while they were married. Any equity he had before is his unless he refinances and puts her name on the deed.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> If her name is not on the deed and/or mortgage, then no. She's an occupant and nothing more. There is even a document called "Joint Tenancy with Right to Survivorship" which means the house would go to her in case her husband predeceased her. But she's got squat if she isn't on any documentation.


Wrong, and I can tell you by experience that isn't true. If ANY marital $ or assets were used to pay the mortgage during marriage, then that is her money too, hence any equity that went into the home as a result of marital $, she is entitled to half of that.

If he had any equity prior to being married, then she has not claim to that. Anything accumulated after is marital property....name on a deed or not.

The house is not in my name - what happens when we divorce? (kentfamilysolicitor.com)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> If her name is not on the deed and/or mortgage, then no. She's an occupant and nothing more. There is even a document called "Joint Tenancy with Right to Survivorship" which means the house would go to her in case her husband predeceased her. But she's got squat if she isn't on any documentation.


Are you talking about what you know that she has? Or are you saying that this is how the laws in her state apply this?

Here where I live, as the spouse, in a divorce she would get 50% of the equity in the home regardless of whether or not she's on the deed and/or mortgage.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

drencrom said:


> Anything accumulated after is marital property....name on a deed or not.


No commingled funds = no marital property.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Here where I live, as the spouse, in a divorce she would get 50% of the equity in the home regardless of whether or not she's on the deed and/or mortgage.


No commingled funds = no marital property. If the OP lives in a equity state, it doesn't mean she'll get half the house. This is where forensic accountants come into the picture. Not saying that is the case for the OP, but just because someone is in a community property state, doesn't mean 50/50 will occur.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> No commingled funds = no marital property. If the OP lives in a equity state, it doesn't mean she'll get half the house. This is where forensic accountants come into the picture. Not saying that is the case for the OP, but just because someone is in a community property state, doesn't mean 50/50 will occur.


This is why she needs to talk to an attorney. My understanding is taht the house was purchased after they married. The mortage was paid wiht marital income (I'm assuming). All maintenance with marital income. Therefore, it's community property.

Since she's has low income and has been the primary care taker of their children, there's a good chance that in an equitable distribution state she will get a higher percentage of community property. And, in most equitable distribution states, a judge can tap into one spouse's sole property to give some of it to the lower income spouse. 

Again, she needs an attorney because this all can be very complicated.

Here's what I found about Arizona. it's the same in NM. 
_"If a spouse mixes (called "commingling") his or her separate property with community property, the separate property usually loses its status as separate. For example, if a spouse who was the sole owner of the family home before the marriage changes the title to community property or uses marital funds to pay the mortgage, a court would consider this evidence that the owner intended to make a "gift" of the home to the marital community."_​​_Arizona Divorce: Dividing Property | DivorceNet_​


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes, Ele, you are absolutely correct. I didn't realize the OP's husband bought the home after they married. For some reason, I thought he purchased the home prior to marrying OP. Even so, if he didn't take any of her money for home maintenance or mortgage payments, and if he could prove funds were not commingled, she would be in a less favorable position. To reiterate, no commingled funds = no marital property.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Yes, Ele, you are absolutely correct. I didn't realize the OP's husband bought the home after they married. For some reason, I thought he purchased the home prior to marrying OP. Even so, if he didn't take any of her money for home maintenance or mortgage payments, and if he could prove funds were not commingled, she would be in a less favorable position. To reiterate, no commingled funds = no marital property.


_sigh_ If they are married then all money and assets accumulated/earned WHILE MARRIED is MARITAL...hence, both of theirs.

If he makes ANY mortgage payments while they were married he IS using HER money as well since it is THEIR money.

Trust me, if you haven't gone through a divorce and dealt with this particular issue, you don't know. I have, therefore, I do.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> _sigh_ If they are married then all money and assets accumulated/earned is MARITAL...hence, both of theirs.
> 
> If he makes ANY mortgage payments while they were married he IS using HER money as well since it is THEIR money.
> 
> Trust me, if you haven't gone through a divorce and dealt with this particular issue, you don't know. I have, therefore, I do.


Our money is in a joint account and has been since getting married 8 years ago. Technically..whether I have an income or not..I am entitled to 50/50. When divorcing a narcissist..you will be lucky if you are allowed to keep your own organs. I have done ALOT of research and joined survivor forums..and majority of people who have divorced a narcissistic husband have been left destitute and traumatized at best...not only that but the exH will continue to make your life as difficult as humanly possible while u remain on this earth. It is a grim forecast at best..and anyone who attempts it better be ready for WW3 and to possibly lose everything.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Our money is in a joint account and has been since getting married 8 years ago. Technically..whether I have an income or not..I am entitled to 50/50. When divorcing a narcissist..you will be lucky if you are allowed to keep your own organs. I have done ALOT of research and joined survivor forums..and majority of people who have divorced a narcissistic husband have been left destitute and traumatized at best...not only that but the exH will continue to make your life as difficult as humanly possible while u remain on this earth. It is a grim forecast at best..and anyone who attempts it better be ready for WW3 and to possibly lose everything.


You would be correct. Now, lawyers can always fight over it and make deals, but yes. Anything accumulated or paid for while you are married is marital. I understand the house was bought after you married. You are entitled to half, name on the deed/mortgage or not.

Had the home been bought prior to marriage, but the mortgage is still being paid while you are married, the equity in the home prior to married is all his. The equity accumulated after marriage is 50/50.

And even if you didn't have your $ in a joint account, anything accumulated in any account after marriage you are still entitled to half. Your attorneys, if you get divorced, will just have to figure out a formula on exactly what you get since I assume he has some assets prior to marriage to which you are not entitled.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> You would be correct. Now, lawyers can always fight over it and make deals, but yes. Anything accumulated or paid for while you are married is marital. I understand the house was bought after you married. You are entitled to half, name on the deed/mortgage or not.
> 
> Had the home been bought prior to marriage, but the mortgage is still being paid while you are married, the equity in the home prior to married is all his. The equity accumulated after marriage is 50/50.
> 
> And even if you didn't have your $ in a joint account, anything accumulated in any account after marriage you are still entitled to half. Your attorneys, if you get divorced, will just have to figure out a formula on exactly what you get since I assume he has some assets prior to marriage to which you are not entitled.


From what I have read from research is that the problem is the judicial system. Neither judges nor lawyers are often very educated on narcissistic personality disorder. If they were..then the outcomes would be more fair and just. Unfortunately majority are not. If and when I divorce I plan on have a license psychologist explain in depth what NPD is and what it entails.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> From what I have read from research is that the problem is the judicial system. Neither judges nor lawyers are often very educated on narcissistic personality disorder. If they were..then the outcomes would be more fair and just. Unfortunately majority are not. If and when I divorce I plan on have a license psychologist explain in depth what NPD is and what it entails.





drencrom said:


> You would be correct. Now, lawyers can always fight over it and make deals, but yes. Anything accumulated or paid for while you are married is marital. I understand the house was bought after you married. You are entitled to half, name on the deed/mortgage or not.
> 
> Had the home been bought prior to marriage, but the mortgage is still being paid while you are married, the equity in the home prior to married is all his. The equity accumulated after marriage is 50/50.
> 
> And even if you didn't have your $ in a joint account, anything accumulated in any account after marriage you are still entitled to half. Your attorneys, if you get divorced, will just have to figure out a formula on exactly what you get since I assume he has some assets prior to marriage to which you are not entitled.


I also believe that DH has grown suspicious due to my emotional distance and has already put things into play on his end. I have seen a drastic change in SS's behavior, caught SS trying to record me AND look at my phone...and Ive noticed DHs employer ck deposits have decreased..even though he just got a raise. So I think he is having a portion sent to another secret account he opened. And as I said in a previous post..when we got into an argument/discussion about how ling SS would be living with us..DH said he thinks I will end up leaving him in the future so SS won't be going anywhere. I've given him no inclination to think that..so that gives me further reason to believe he is planning and preparing for a future without me. Which would normally be totally fine and even great..but when it comes to him..that means he is also plotting behind my back so that things will be in his favor.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I also believe that DH has grown suspicious due to my emotional distance and has already put things into play on his end.


Then if you divorce you demand discovery. He fails to declare anything, he can be in a s**tload of trouble.

If you are thinking of divorce, I suggest you consult an attorney as secretly as possible and tell him/her everything you suspect and get ahead of the game. Word of advice, if you do, try to have all your ducks in a row when meeting with an attorney. Because after that you let them do their job. Do not contact them in person, by phone or email any more than necessary. Because each one of those communications will add to their fee. Give them everything you have, then sit back and wait for them to contact you.

I did this, my attorney bill was very minimal. My ex-wife was crying the blues because she kept contacting her attorney at every single turn, and her fees racked up big time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Our money is in a joint account and has been since getting married 8 years ago. Technically..whether I have an income or not..I am entitled to 50/50. When divorcing a narcissist..you will be lucky if you are allowed to keep your own organs. I have done ALOT of research and joined survivor forums..and majority of people who have divorced a narcissistic husband have been left destitute and traumatized at best...not only that but the exH will continue to make your life as difficult as humanly possible while u remain on this earth. It is a grim forecast at best..and anyone who attempts it better be ready for WW3 and to possibly lose everything.


Has your husband been diagnosed by a medical professional as a narcissist? Or is this your diagnosis of him? I ask because there are a lot of people who do a lot of things that narcissists do, but technically they are not actually narcissists. Your husband is clearly at least very self-centered and only cares for himself.

That said, the ex-husband I spoke about earlier has a lot of behaviors that might be similar to narcissism, It sounds like you are involved in some forums that are preaching self defeatism. I've seen a lot of this in online forums. It sets you up to accept any crap he wants to pull.

When I divorced my ex, there are some things that kept him having the upper hand. I did my homework; set up a support system with friends and family, got head of him by having a strong exit plan, and I found a very good attorney.

Yea, I read that you don't have the money for an attorney. But there is something you can do about it. Get into counseling at an organization that helps victims of domestic abuse. Many of these organizations have lists of attorneys who will work pro bono to help a victim of abuse with their divorce. They often will get a court order for the soon-to-be-ex (STBX) to pay their legal fees. Check every one of these organizations in your area to find at least one of them that can help you get an attorney.

You say that people like his children will make up lies about you to help their dad in a divorce. So get evidence that this is what they will do. Do these guys openly talk about it? What can you do to get them to talk about their plans to lie. If you send your husband a text about the lies, would he text back his threats of others lying for his benefit? How about email? Or will he talk about it openly? If you will respond to these questions, I and others here can give you help on how to protect yourself from these threats.

Another thing that you can do is when you are going through the divorce, ask for a custody evaluation. The courts have the goal of keeping both parents active in a child's life. So, if you get a custody evaluation their goal will be to make sure that custody is in the best interest of the children. You have been their primary care giver. So you will get primary custody.

When my divorce was in process I asked the court for a custody evaluation. The judge asked that each of us submit the names of 2 people/organizations to do the evaluation. We did that. One of the organizations that I submitted is named "Fathers and Family". It's a local organization that helps men in custody situations. I chose them because I was so impressed with the counselors there. Out of the 4 evaluators we submitted the judge picked "Fathers and Family". My bet is that he was surprised that I suggested a place that favors fathers. My ex was trying to get 100% custody. I was going to shared custody. The evaluators put a lot of effort into it. I got the chance to tell them my viewpoint and my ex got to tell them his viewpoint. They also interviewed our son who was in 2nd grade at the time. They gave both of us tests to evaluate our mental health. It was a very involved process. After all that, they figured it out. In the evaluation they presented to the court they gave evaluations of both of us which included both the negative and positives of each of us. One of the strongest negatives of my ex what that he was clearly not being honest and that even in his mental health tests (written test) he was clearly trying to game the system, lying, etc. They stated that it was clear that much of his claims against me were fabricated. They also stated taht in their interviews with our son it was clear that my ex had a weak and unhealthy relationship with our son. Our son was afraid of his father because he was abusive. The evaluators were wonderful. In the end they suggested that my ex get 30% time with our son and if he went to counseling for a year, he might be able to get more time. Well, he did go to counseling for 2 years. Our son was involved in that counseling. It was only after those 2 years of counseling which led to significant changes in my ex's behavior and fathering skills, did he get any more time... up to 40%.

You say that your step son is causing serious problems with your children. What have you done to record this? Do you keep a journal of dates and a description of what's going on? Depending on your state, you might be able to use a voice activated recorder (keep it hidden), to capture his abuse of your children. If you share your state we can help you figure out if you can legally record these encounters.

You, see yourself as a victim. This is hurting you. Your own point of view is hurting you. So you need to find ways to turn around the view you have of yourself.

Has your husband ever hit you, chocked you, put his hands on your in anger, thrown things in anger.. what's the worst of his behavior and how often does it happen if it does happen?


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