# She doesn't think of sex/intimacy at all



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

While I thought things were getting better, the fact is, they aren't. Recently, we planned on a trip with our two adult sons to visit relatives out of state and will be staying in a hotel. The weekend happens to also be our anniversary (28th). My wife researched hotels and asked if we could do with one room. I thought, WTF! It's our anniversary and she is thinking one room to save money? I told her we needed two rooms. I also told her that I felt hurt that she would even think of getting only one room to save money (yes, we can easily afford two rooms for two nights) and that it was our anniversary. She said she was only thinking about saving money. 

Why she even thinks that one room shared with adult children is ok is beyond me. 

This is just one more example where she doesn't place any importance on our need for intimacy and a healthy sexual relationship.

I may sound like a broken record, but, I'm tired of this crap. I'm going to suggest marriage counseling again. Last time, I went by myself and she never made the appointment for her session. So, obviously, we never had the session together too.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

It's a shame she doesn't realize the importance of your physical and intimate relationship. It's hard not to be hurt when you are all ways thinking about these things and she's not. 

Have you insisted on counseling?


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Syrum said:


> It's a shame she doesn't realize the importance of your physical and intimate relationship. It's hard not to be hurt when you are all ways thinking about these things and she's not.
> 
> Have you insisted on counseling?


I'm going to insist on counseling. I bugged her the last time about making her appointment and she said she didn't have time with all that was going on at work. Her priorites don't apparently include fixing our marriage. I truly believe she is comfortable with what she has and views my desire for intimacy as a nuisance and feels pressured.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> I'm going to insist on counseling. I bugged her the last time about making her appointment and she said she didn't have time with all that was going on at work. Her priorites don't apparently include fixing our marriage. I truly believe she is comfortable with what she has and views my desire for intimacy as a nuisance and feels pressured.


I think you should both be each others top priority and she needs to understand why you are unhappy. So stick to your guns.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If your needs are not important to her, then you are not important to her.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If your needs are not important to her, then you are not important to her.


Agree. Seems anything I do that might be considered beyond roommate type behavior is met with resistence and cold shoulder.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I've scheduled a session with a counselor for this friday.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You don't need a counselor. You need to hold her accountable to meeting your needs. Would you expect her to stay with you if you refused to meet her needs? She would not put up with it. You shouldn't either.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with Hicks, but I would go one further.

You need to stop suggesting therapy, she is not intersted.

You need to stop initiating intimacy, she is not interested.

You need to stop putting her priorities above yours, she does not do that for you.

You need to destabilize the relationship, as she has already done this.

My point is, she is not concerned with you, she thinks no matter what she is safe and untouchable. She has no respect for you and no fear of her status. She is in control and is in fact controlling you with her behaviour. None of this is acceptable behavior by a supossed loving wife. You need to turn the tables on this behavior around. You need to stay calm, cool, detached and totally deprioritize her. Don't pursue her at all. Be friendly and nice like you would to the guy that lives next door but nothing more. Go out and don't tell her what your doing. Make your own priorities your main priorities and let her wonder a bit what your up to.

Most of all, don't let her think that no matter what she does or doesnt' do - or how she treats you that the relationship is safe. Let her sweat a bit. And mean it - cause do you really want to spend the rest of your life with your current situation? Think about it, as she approaches menapause etc, do you think things will improve? If she has no interest now, how do you see things 10, 20 years from now. You need to set the tone of your expectations now, you need to enforce your boundries now, and you need to be a good partner all at the same time. She needs to see what she is risking losing. This will likely get some initial resistance and may get worse before it gets better but what you have is certainly not acceptable or sustainable long term.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

On more thing, read about creating attraction. She NEEDS to be attracted to you and attraction is not a choice. Work out, clean yourself up, lose weight, shave, get a hair cut, get new clothes whatever you would do if you were on dating market again. Don't get complacent because your married and these things just aren't important any more. There MORE important now. Think back to how you were when you first attracted her. Your personality type. How you treated her, how you looked. Go back to that guy and be that guy as much as you can. That's what she was attracted to.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

eagleclaw, 

Thanks for the response. I'm actually in great shape physically. I workout in the gym 3 days a week and walk my dogs most days. I watch what I eat and eat healthy. I need to go shopping for new pants as the old ones are too loose now.

She has let herself go. She doesn't eat right and apparently doesn't care.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

Sounds like you got that part nailed then - which is great! Maybe working on the other stuff then....


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

eagleclaw said:


> Sounds like you got that part nailed then - which is great! Maybe working on the other stuff then....


Yeah, will do. I get compliments on how well I've done to get in shape, just not from her. Many people think I'm 10 yrs younger than I really am. I feel young and alive. 

We were watching the NBA Finals game last night. Then, she gets up, pours a glass of milk and grabs a couple of cookies and starts heading to the bedroom. I said, "I thought we were watching the game together?" (we both enjoy watching sports). She said, "Her back hurts and her allergies are killing me." I can't read minds and a response like that throws up a big roadblock for any thoughts of possible intimacy. She made no mention of her back hurting or allergies earlier in the evening.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Yeah, will do. I get compliments on how well I've done to get in shape, just not from her. Many people think I'm 10 yrs younger than I really am. I feel young and alive.
> 
> We were watching the NBA Finals game last night. Then, she gets up, pours a glass of milk and grabs a couple of cookies and starts heading to the bedroom. I said, "I thought we were watching the game together?" (we both enjoy watching sports). She said, "Her back hurts and her allergies are killing me." I can't read minds and a response like that throws up a big roadblock for any thoughts of possible intimacy. She made no mention of her back hurting or allergies earlier in the evening.


Do you think your wife could be intimidated by the fact that you have gotten in to shape and she hasn't? Is she menopausal or perimenopausal? That really does a number on lots of women - not just physically, but emotionally - makes lots of women feel old and worn out.

I don't know about your wife, but I know that I can't just get turned around on a dime, usually. My H typically has to 'seduce' me throughout the day (he says I am high-maintenance but worth it ) If we were sitting watching TV, he would likely be holding my hand, rubbing my leg, teasing me. I have to be warmed up. But the biggest thing is that I am WILLING to be warmed up. Is your wife WILLING at all? Does she put ANY priority on your intimate relationship? She has to be willing to meet you part-way, otherwise you are going to have to draw a very hard line in the sand and be willing to live up to it.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> Yeah, will do. I get compliments on how well I've done to get in shape, just not from her. Many people think I'm 10 yrs younger than I really am. I feel young and alive.
> 
> We were watching the NBA Finals game last night. Then, she gets up, pours a glass of milk and grabs a couple of cookies and starts heading to the bedroom. I said, "I thought we were watching the game together?" (we both enjoy watching sports). She said, "Her back hurts and her allergies are killing me." I can't read minds and a response like that throws up a big roadblock for any thoughts of possible intimacy. She made no mention of her back hurting or allergies earlier in the evening.


I know when your frustrated those things can seem intentional but i doubt it's so. I'll change rooms or change my plans due to my back (I have a bad back that gets quite sore) but it does not mean I am not interested sexually. I wouldn't make a habit of trying to read to much into what she says.

I wouldn't pursue, buy asking her where she's going you end up coming across as the puppy who is concerned where and what the boss it up to. You do what you want, on your own schedule - invite her but do whatever you were going to do regardless of if she comes or not. And if she changes direction as she did act like you didn't even notice. Or go do something more fun and let her "miss out".

And if your still wanting to initate then do so. Give her the chance to be agreeable rather than reading into her other comments and making your own assessment. Your counting it as a rejection even though she hasn't even had the chance to do so. That's a sure fire way to compound the number of rejections you get without even talking to her. (Dont' feel bad, I'm guilty of this as well.) But realize your doing it, and mentally reset and stop doing it.

If you had a runny nose, a broken toe and a sore back but your wife deceded to give you oral would you stop her? Give her the chance to reject you first.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hunter,

Her question was a fitness test.

Unfortunately, you failed it.

A good response would have been to have a twinkle in your eye and ask sweetly, "Then where will you sleep dear?"


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

eagleclaw said:


> I know when your frustrated those things can seem intentional but i doubt it's so. I'll change rooms or change my plans due to my back (I have a bad back that gets quite sore) but it does not mean I am not interested sexually. I wouldn't make a habit of trying to read to much into what she says.
> 
> I wouldn't pursue, buy asking her where she's going you end up coming across as the puppy who is concerned where and what the boss it up to. You do what you want, on your own schedule - invite her but do whatever you were going to do regardless of if she comes or not. And if she changes direction as she did act like you didn't even notice. Or go do something more fun and let her "miss out".
> 
> ...


:iagree:

From a woman's perspective, if she is anything like a lot of women who might just be in a neutral/off mode regarding sexual desire, if you sat like a bump on a log the whole time you were watching TV and there were NO little forays from you regarding your desire to have the evening end up with more intimacy, then milk and cookies might indeed look more desirable at that moment. Along with learning how to "man up", it would really behoove a lot of men to LEARN about their wife's sexual responses. You haven't cracked her code yet.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I've had plenty of experience with rejection and non-responsiveness. Pursuing her hasn't worked. Ignoring her gets me nowhere. I'd love to learn about my wife's sexual responses. Since she rarely shows them, it's difficult to unlock the code.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Hunter,
> 
> Her question was a fitness test.
> 
> ...


The previous night, she fell asleep in front of the TV in the den. I got up at my regular time and didn't try to get her to come to bed at all. I slept well. lol


----------



## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Wow, sounds so much like my wife..on our vacations..like every single one of them..its one hotel room for me..my wife..her parents..and her brother...one room..two beds..figure it out..its ****ed up..and then she gets upset at me when I think its odd...one night I can maybe understand..but its like that two weeks straight..sex is never on her mind the whole time..feel like this marriage thing is screwing me over..feel like it..I know its not completely..but as far as sex goes it is..


----------



## Dino99 (Jan 14, 2011)

don't kid yourself she probably does think about sex and intimacy...but obviously not with you.

after 25 years of marriage i know I don't think about it with my husband, sad, boring but true.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I think you've answered your own question. I know that after 3 decades of the wifey coming to bed in socks, sweatpants, t-shirt, hoodie and burrowing under 2 or 3 quilts while complaining that the A/C and fan must be off if the room is under 78 degrees that she's 'not into it'. Never was, never will be. No point in worrying about it. 

She's recently taken to never leaving the bed and instead watching movies up there most of the time with the bedroom door locked. Sounds like a fair deal to me. She's not lurking about grumbling.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

txhunter - 
Did you go to the marriage counseling session you had scheduled? Is your wife WILLING to work with on your marriage?

Okay - on the pulpit again - there's a lot of male opinions in here - here again is a female opinion. IF your wife is the variety like LOTS of women who does not think about sex much at all (yeah - coming on this forum you would think that doesn't happen, but I honestly think it's just the normal state that many women exist in) it never would cross her mind to book another room. Now, if it crossed YOUR mind, then YOU should have made the reservations for two rooms, YOU should have let her know that you want/expect a romantic time since it's your anniversary. I don't know what to say - I want a man to take the reins and lead in this department. Maybe that's an unpopular view with a lot of people, but I don't care - that's how I am and that's how my marriage works.

I've been married for 23 years - could see myself easily being like your wife if I didn't have as strong-willed of a husband to keep pursuing me like a bandit and never letting me settle. The problem is you have how many years under the bridge now - maybe your wife gave up rowing a long time ago.


----------



## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Enchantment said:


> txhunter -
> Did you go to the marriage counseling session you had scheduled? Is your wife WILLING to work with on your marriage?
> 
> Okay - on the pulpit again - there's a lot of male opinions in here - here again is a female opinion. IF your wife is the variety like LOTS of women who does not think about sex much at all (yeah - coming on this forum you would think that doesn't happen, but I honestly think it's just the normal state that many women exist in) it never would cross her mind to book another room. Now, if it crossed YOUR mind, then YOU should have made the reservations for two rooms, YOU should have let her know that you want/expect a romantic time since it's your anniversary. I don't know what to say - I want a man to take the reins and lead in this department. Maybe that's an unpopular view with a lot of people, but I don't care - that's how I am and that's how my marriage works.
> ...



Not so sure about that..I got pretty much the same issue with my wife..on our last vacation I did just that..book seperate rooms for a few nights..so that me and my wife would be seperate from the rest of the family..
It was hilarious how they react..honestly I felt like I was a complete pervert..I mean, how dare me want to sleep with their daughter without any adult supervision:rofl:

BUt I did...and when I did there wasnt much going on with me and her..she wasnt ever in the mood..then she was too concerned about the noise we would make..So flippin boring..

Not to hijack the thread with my own story...but I got a similar situation with my wife..and as far as I know there is no solution...Sugar wives are very afraid of spice.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> Not so sure about that..I got pretty much the same issue with my wife..on our last vacation I did just that..book seperate rooms for a few nights..so that me and my wife would be seperate from the rest of the family..
> It was hilarious how they react..honestly I felt like I was a complete pervert..I mean, how dare me want to sleep with their daughter without any adult supervision:rofl:
> 
> BUt I did...and when I did there wasnt much going on with me and her..she wasnt ever in the mood..then she was too concerned about the noise we would make..So flippin boring..
> ...


Keep chipping away at all that frosted sugar - there might just be a hot tamale underneath!

Seriously, this brought to mind the one and only vacation my H and I took with my parents after we were first married. My dad was supposed to make all the arrangements, but he waited until the last minute and the first night we ended up at the hotel and there was only one room - and only one bed! He was too embarrassed to tell us he waited too long and couldn't get two rooms. Yah! That was a fun vacation! It was the only one we ever took together.

So, instead of expecting some action if this is a family vacation with family in tow, sometimes it's better to just book a nice Husband & Wife vacation without family in tow for more romantic times. It is way hard when there's family around - brings up too many repressed issues, I think.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> txhunter -
> Did you go to the marriage counseling session you had scheduled? Is your wife WILLING to work with on your marriage?
> 
> Okay - on the pulpit again - there's a lot of male opinions in here - here again is a female opinion. IF your wife is the variety like LOTS of women who does not think about sex much at all (yeah - coming on this forum you would think that doesn't happen, but I honestly think it's just the normal state that many women exist in) it never would cross her mind to book another room. Now, if it crossed YOUR mind, then YOU should have made the reservations for two rooms, YOU should have let her know that you want/expect a romantic time since it's your anniversary. I don't know what to say - I want a man to take the reins and lead in this department. Maybe that's an unpopular view with a lot of people, but I don't care - that's how I am and that's how my marriage works.
> ...


I did go to the marriage counseling session. Not sure that it helped much. Gave me a few ideas of things to try.

I talked to my wife later that evening. I had been sending her some emails linking to articles I found about rekindling intimacy. She said she didn't appreciate them and they didn't help. I then asked what would help. Her response was "I don't know". I then responded that she wasn't being very helpful. I suggested getting her some sexy lingerie for this weekend (our anniversary). She indicated that would be a waste of money. I then indicated that it was our anniversary and that I wanted some time for us during the weekend. The response was less than enthusiastic.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

I think you need to destabilize the relationship. I would not celebrate the anniversity at all and I would start discussing seperation since you signed up for a marriage, not a friendship. Hell, even friends care about your needs and generally want to be there for you.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Enchantment said:


> Keep chipping away at all that frosted sugar - there might just be a hot tamale underneath!
> 
> Seriously, this brought to mind the one and only vacation my H and I took with my parents after we were first married. My dad was supposed to make all the arrangements, but he waited until the last minute and the first night we ended up at the hotel and there was only one room - and only one bed! He was too embarrassed to tell us he waited too long and couldn't get two rooms. Yah! That was a fun vacation! It was the only one we ever took together.
> 
> So, instead of expecting some action if this is a family vacation with family in tow, sometimes it's better to just book a nice Husband & Wife vacation without family in tow for more romantic times. It is way hard when there's family around - brings up too many repressed issues, I think.


your suggesting that he do all the work and she continues to have full right of approval/refusal. sometimes, in fact often, the juice isnt worth the squeeze. just how much effort should one spouse put into the intimacy department without reward from the other? ive seen it with men and women on here. its just sad to have to work so hard for it, to have to coerce your spouse into intimacy.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> your suggesting that he do all the work and she continues to have full right of approval/refusal. sometimes, in fact often, the juice isnt worth the squeeze. just how much effort should one spouse put into the intimacy department without reward from the other? ive seen it with men and women on here. its just sad to have to work so hard for it, to have to coerce your spouse into intimacy.


hi okey-
Yah - my post was really to marriedguy who had another thread about his wife being intimate with him, just not her being 'spicy' and outgoing enough.

But, I think whichever spouse wants it more (whatever 'it' may be), they will likely have to be the one to get the ball rolling and put in more work initially. [And I won't even go down the path in that yes, since it is a woman's body, she should have full right of first refusal.] However, only you can decide how long it's worth to continue 'squeezing', especially if you have an uncooperative spouse.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

eagleclaw said:


> I think you need to destabilize the relationship. I would not celebrate the anniversity at all and I would start discussing seperation since you signed up for a marriage, not a friendship. Hell, even friends care about your needs and generally want to be there for you.


Since everything else I've tried hasn't worked, I agree it's time to destabilize the relationship. 

Last night, I had a conference call for work that started at 9pm. During the call, I see her make herself a bowl of ice cream. Three big scoops and a banana at 9:30pm. WTF! I don't even want to guess how many calories were in that bowl. And eating that late doesn't give the body any chance to work off some of the caloric intake. She isn't even trying to get in shape. One scoop and some banana slices would have been more reasonable. But, then again, I watch what I eat to stay in shape.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Since everything else I've tried hasn't worked, I agree it's time to destabilize the relationship.
> 
> Last night, I had a conference call for work that started at 9pm. During the call, I see her make herself a bowl of ice cream. Three big scoops and a banana at 9:30pm. WTF! I don't even want to guess how many calories were in that bowl. And eating that late doesn't give the body any chance to work off some of the caloric intake. She isn't even trying to get in shape. One scoop and some banana slices would have been more reasonable. But, then again, I watch what I eat to stay in shape.


Hi Tex ~

I saw your response in another person's post about how do you get your spouse to talk with you about sex, and decided to come back to your thread instead of responding in that one.

I went back through your old posts to try and get a sense of where you and your wife are at. I think you mentioned that your kids are college-aged now?

Based upon all of the responses, or lack thereof, that you get from your wife and all of the over-eating (especially sweet, sugary snacks), do you think your wife could be depressed? I don't know how long the kids have flown the coop, but does she miss them a lot (empty nest syndrome)?

Does she have any physical issues going on? I know you mentioned in a prior post about a rib injury that she had. But, has she gone through menopause yet, or is she on the verge (peri-menopausal)? That stuff just majorly messes with a lot of women's bodies and minds. Something like menopause combined with empty nest syndrome can just send a lot of women reeling-they feel like they have nothing left as a woman.

Have you two ever had a good sexual, intimate relationship? Has your wife ever been sexual, or even accommodating?

I'm just grasping here. When you describe her, it just seems like she's in such a stupor - especially around the house when you two are alone. Maybe she needs some kind of help other than marriage counseling. Just a thought.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Enchantment, 

She is probably pre-menopausal. She is outgoing around friends and co-workers. But, when she gets home, the energy level just plummets. 

Good sexual, intimate relationship or accommodating? yes, I think so. Not as much as I would like, but better years ago. She used to enjoy me giving her oral sex. She still would never give me oral sex though. It seems like getting to the point of interest in sex is a huge barrier. Used to be she would respond after foreplay. But, now, the opportunities to even begin foreplay are almost non-existent.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Enchantment,
> 
> She is probably pre-menopausal. She is outgoing around friends and co-workers. But, when she gets home, the energy level just plummets.
> 
> Good sexual, intimate relationship or accommodating? yes, I think so. Not as much as I would like, but better years ago. She used to enjoy me giving her oral sex. She still would never give me oral sex though. It seems like getting to the point of interest in sex is a huge barrier. Used to be she would respond after foreplay. But, now, the opportunities to even begin foreplay are almost non-existent.


What do you think about the depression aspect of it? Has she gained a lot of weight? You mentioned that you have toned up while she has been eating cookies and ice cream before bedtime.

Is she willing to go see her doctor? Yah, I don't know. I feel like she's got something going on that needs to be looked in to. About two years ago, I was like this. Went on for another year and finally went to the doctor - turned out my thyroid was out to lunch. It's been a ton better since I got on medication for that.

You know, if you're not willing to throw in the towel then start looking at some of these other angles from her side and start pressing about it and keep it up - maybe just from the health aspect if nothing else (I know the guys on the forum will give you good advice about what to do for yourself.)


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> What do you think about the depression aspect of it? Has she gained a lot of weight? You mentioned that you have toned up while she has been eating cookies and ice cream before bedtime.
> 
> Is she willing to go see her doctor? Yah, I don't know. I feel like she's got something going on that needs to be looked in to. About two years ago, I was like this. Went on for another year and finally went to the doctor - turned out my thyroid was out to lunch. It's been a ton better since I got on medication for that.
> 
> You know, if you're not willing to throw in the towel then start looking at some of these other angles from her side and start pressing about it and keep it up - maybe just from the health aspect if nothing else (I know the guys on the forum will give you good advice about what to do for yourself.)


I sometimes wonder if something like depression is going on with her. Need to do some research on that.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Last night, we had what I would classify as "accommodating" sex. She never got into it but allowed me to have intercourse. To say the least, it was not very satisfying since she barely participated. I initiated and attempted foreplay. But, she wasn't very receptive. Didn't want me to do oral sex on her. She said to get ready (meaning get a condom on) and away I went. But, emotionally, I felt like i was the only one participating. Not exactly my idea of sharing.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Sounds awful. : (


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Yeah, that doesn't sound good. It's one thing to be 'accommodating' or what I call 'available to be turned on'. I accept that I have a different drive than my H, I accept his drive. I accept that he can get me going after me starting out in kind of a neutral position. It sounds like your wife isn't quite like that - like she hasn't yet had that revelation about what intimacy means to a man.

I would definitely start to do some research on depression. If you know any of her close friends or co-workers or even other family members close enough you could ask them if they've noticed any changes in her. One of the best things for people who are mildly depressed is exercise - I don't know if you can cajole her to go out for a walk with you after supper a few times a week.

I would also keep doing any of the 'man up' stuff the other man may have counselled you on - maintain your routine and fitness, be strong and cheerful. I would let her know that the intimate time you had last night left you feeling hollow inside. I think some women just don't get that there's emotions in men connected to sex with their wives. :scratchhead:


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> Last night, we had what I would classify as "accommodating" sex. She never got into it but allowed me to have intercourse. To say the least, it was not very satisfying since she barely participated. I initiated and attempted foreplay. But, she wasn't very receptive. Didn't want me to do oral sex on her. She said to get ready (meaning get a condom on) and away I went. But, emotionally, I felt like i was the only one participating. Not exactly my idea of sharing.


Don't accept bad sex. Call it what it is. In a case like this roll off and go do something else. You need to shake up this cycle completely. Decide to start right now. You know what you want, what you find acceptable, and what it could be. Accept nothing less.

Start being the man you were before you got married. If she was like this then you would have moved on. Walk away from sex in disgust when she does this a couple of times then deprioritize her and drop the emotional temperature in the house. She'll sense it, and wonder what's going on. Stay cool and collected and let her know why. Let her know that her lack of effort, lack of interest, and inability to even attempt to APPEAR to have any romantic interest in her husband is a deal breaker. Tell her if she feels they way she acts then you both should find people that you actually feel a connection with. You have enough friends already, your wife will NOT be another "friend". Then start going out and doing other things. 
Remain faithful but don't tell her what your doing. Practice just talking to other women at the supermarket etc. 

You will build your own confidence and that shows on you. Let her make the next move. She will either initiate a converstation, change her actions, be overly nice to you, or clam up and do nothing. Hold your ground and your course and make yourself a challenge. Biggest point here, don't accept crappy intimacy. Don't accept crappy actions or words from here. Be the man you want to be and EXPECT the same as you give.

Start with oral. If you give and she's happy to receive at times they you get as well. Non-negotiable. Start giving her oral, get her into it and then tell her (don't ask) to flip around into a 69, or to go down on you. If she balks or says no, simply get up and go do something else. You can explain calmly that her contribution is unfair and unacceptable and will not be tolerated any longer. period. No fight, no yelling. Your just not interested and go do your thing.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

eagleclaw said:


> Don't accept bad sex. Call it what it is. In a case like this roll off and go do something else. You need to shake up this cycle completely. Decide to start right now. You know what you want, what you find acceptable, and what it could be. Accept nothing less.
> 
> Start being the man you were before you got married. If she was like this then you would have moved on. Walk away from sex in disgust when she does this a couple of times then deprioritize her and drop the emotional temperature in the house. She'll sense it, and wonder what's going on. Stay cool and collected and let her know why. Let her know that her lack of effort, lack of interest, and inability to even attempt to APPEAR to have any romantic interest in her husband is a deal breaker. Tell her if she feels they way she acts then you both should find people that you actually feel a connection with. You have enough friends already, your wife will NOT be another "friend". Then start going out and doing other things.
> Remain faithful but don't tell her what your doing. Practice just talking to other women at the supermarket etc.
> ...


I agree with most of this to try and shake her out of whatever compacency she may be in. I think Tex needs to pursue the fact that his wife may have something else physical going on as well.

However, the part I don't agree with is the last paragraph. IF she is currently uncomfortable doing a certain act, like oral sex, trying to push her in to it at this point is going to be WAY counter-productive. She's going to look at you like a totally selfish jerk and pull back even further. I think the issue is that she is not able to "get in to it". If she could get in to it and get going, then eagle's advice may work. If she can't, then his advice is going to be counter-productive (it would for me anyway, and I can only speak from a woman's viewpoint.  )But I agree that if you continue on with the encounter she is going to think that she satisfied you, you are satisfied, and she is done with it. It just re-inforces a bad dynamic, and may re-inforce any negative attitudes she has about it.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> I agree with most of this to try and shake her out of whatever compacency she may be in. I think Tex needs to pursue the fact that his wife may have something else physical going on as well.
> 
> However, the part I don't agree with is the last paragraph. IF she is currently uncomfortable doing a certain act, like oral sex, trying to push her in to it at this point is going to be WAY counter-productive. *She's going to look at you like a totally selfish jerk and pull back even further.* I think the issue is that she is not able to "get in to it". If she could get in to it and get going, then eagle's advice may work. If she can't, then his advice is going to be counter-productive (it would for me anyway, and I can only speak from a woman's viewpoint.  )But I agree that if you continue on with the encounter she is going to think that she satisfied you, you are satisfied, and she is done with it. It just re-inforces a bad dynamic, and may re-inforce any negative attitudes she has about it.


That's a good point. In my opinion it is she who is being a selfish jerk - but tackling this issue with oral is probably best not to START with. I still believe it is an issue, and maybe if you can get everything reasonably on track it would be a later point to work on. I find it hard to believe that someone could happily recieve oral, but be "uncomfortable" giving oral. What's "uncomfortable" about it. There are sexual acts that are unusual and likely uncomfortable - however I can't see how oral is one of them. Maybe it's not her favorite act, but intimacy is about wanting to provide pleasure to your partner. Otherwise we would ALL be receivors and no one would be a giver. 

Point taken though.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

eagleclaw said:


> That's a good point. In my opinion it is she who is being a selfish jerk - but tackling this issue with oral is probably best not to START with. I still believe it is an issue, and maybe if you can get everything reasonably on track it would be a later point to work on. I find it hard to believe that someone could happily recieve oral, but be "uncomfortable" giving oral. What's "uncomfortable" about it. There are sexual acts that are unusual and likely uncomfortable - however I can't see how oral is one of them. Maybe it's not her favorite act, but intimacy is about wanting to provide pleasure to your partner. Otherwise we would ALL be receivors and no one would be a giver.
> 
> Point taken though.


Yah, I agree she may be acting very selfishly. However, I'm not sure that she even realizes this - from Tex's posts she kind of seems in a bit of a fog, but I'm totally convinced she has no clue about what intimacy means to him.

Intimacy is a two-way street - each partner joyfully wanting to please the other. She is not at that point of realization, so she simply cannot enjoy or participate in some of the acts that others who are intimate with their partner can understand easily, I think.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm perimenopausal and have ptsd. If I ate a bunch of sugar, didn't take care of myself, didn't go to therapy, I wouldn't want sex either. Oh how I wish more people knew that what you put in your mouth affects so many aspects of your life. If she's eating a bunch of junk food that in itself will make her exhausted. I'm 45 and cannot eat that stuff anymore without dire consequences. I'm not perfect I do indulge sometimes and when I do almost immediately I just want to go to bed.

She also might be self soothing with food instead of intimacy. I've struggled with that in the past too. Instead of reaching for my husband I would reach for cookies instead. They were safer and less demanding. LOL!!


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Enchantment said:


> Yah, I agree she may be acting very selfishly. However, I'm not sure that she even realizes this - from Tex's posts she kind of seems in a bit of a fog, but I'm totally convinced she has no clue about what intimacy means to him.
> 
> Intimacy is a two-way street - each partner joyfully wanting to please the other. She is not at that point of realization, so she simply cannot enjoy or participate in some of the acts that others who are intimate with their partner can understand easily, I think.


she is an adult and would have to be completely ignorant not to realize the situation, i seriously doubt she doesnt. she is just not motivated, for whatever reason, to participate in a fix.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> she is an adult and would have to be completely ignorant not to realize the situation, i seriously doubt she doesnt. she is just not motivated, for whatever reason, to participate in a fix.


:iagree:

She may realize he is unhappy, she may or may not realize the full extent of it or how sex/intimacy are inter-connected for him. I think there are plenty of women who don't get that and it just devolves in to another chore for them.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Enchantment said:


> :iagree:
> 
> She may realize he is unhappy, she may or may not realize the full extent of it or how sex/intimacy are inter-connected for him. I think there are plenty of women who don't get that and it just devolves in to another chore for them.


as for the chore thing, i think your right. that is why i am close to propsing to my wife that i eliminate some of my chores, like working and therefore providing for my family, im just too tired to continue. it makes me very unhappy


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. This weekend was our anniversary. We went out of town to a family event. Had the separate rooms, etc. Nothing happened intimacy-wise. She said her back hurt. She thought I was mad about it. I said, I wasn't mad, I was disappointed. I told her there was a big difference between mad and disappointed. 

I'm continuing to work on me.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

She admitted she is in the process of going through menopause which is causing hormone changes. I told her I understood. But, that we still need intimacy and sex in our marriage for it to be happy. I also brought up the desire to give and receive oral sex. She said she doesn't want to perform oral sex on me. But, she won't say why. I think there was an event in the past prior to us that causes this attitude. 

I told her we need to go to marital counseling to get past these issues as we can't seem to do it on our own. She said she would think about it. Yeah, heard that before. 

She actually thought that the sex we had last week was fine. I told her it wasn't. I told her that her not participating made it less than enjoyable.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Tex ~

I'm sorry you didn't have a good anniversary weekend. It's good that you let her know how it made you feel and that you are continuing to work on yourself. Keep that up.

Read this easy-going book so you can arm yourself with some information on menopause and what your wife may be going through and what you can do to help support and understand her: Amazon.com: "No, It's Not Hot In Here" , A Husbands Guide to Menopause (9780965506731): **** Roth: Books

If she hasn't been discussing the changes she is going through with her doctor, she should. Being apathetic during a huge change like menopause is not good. There are lots of good resources for women online. Encourage her to start checking some of those things out - let her know you are there to support her through this transition.. Here's a good site that I use (I am peri-menopausal, not yet menopausal, but it covers both topics very well): Women to Women — Changing women's health — naturally


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Enchantment, I'll check out those books. Thanks!


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Manning up helped yesterday and last night. Woke up Sunday morning wanting to play around. She said she wanted to sleep and said in a little while. So, I let her sleep awhile. Went back to try again and she was already getting dressed. I reminded her that she had said later. She said ok but later. We went through the day doing various other stuff. Last night, she came to bed and started her normal routine of saying "Nite" which usually means nothing happening. I reminded her about her agreeing to "later" and it was now "later" as it was 11pm. Her participation was better. Still a work in progress. But, better. Making some progress, hopefully!


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

I am going to say something that is highly unpopular to discuss these days. I ask only that you consider it. You obviously do not have to agree (immediately, or ever). My aim is not to force you to agree with me.

My view also comes with greater intimacy and satisfaction in mind. What I'm about to say is not coming from a place of thinking that sex is "bad". Okay?

Here goes... 

You had said this:
"I truly believe she is comfortable with what she has and views my desire for intimacy as a nuisance and feels pressured."

"Nuisance" and "pressured". Okay, I get that. That's not unheard of. 

What I want to suggest is that you consider that aspect of this "intimacy" that you want, and what this really is to a woman. To you it is occurring on the outside of your body. To a woman - this normal "intimacy" that you want ultimately involves you pushing inside her body.

I'm not saying that's bad or wrong. I'm not saying that means you shouldn't want it, and shouldn't do it. Nor that she shouldn't (ultimately) want it. I'm saying that being aware of that fact, and how that subconsciously affects a woman (and her sense of security, boundaries, and a sense of "self"), and approaching a woman differently (via that awareness of what you're really wanting, and how that is different for her) can transform intimacy in marriage.

Just consider the idea. The idea/concept.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

miss-understood said:


> I am going to say something that is highly unpopular to discuss these days. I ask only that you consider it. You obviously do not have to agree (immediately, or ever). My aim is not to force you to agree with me.
> 
> My view also comes with greater intimacy and satisfaction in mind. What I'm about to say is not coming from a place of thinking that sex is "bad". Okay?
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with this, but would also expand upon it. It needs to go both ways - as a man should learn to be aware of what it means to his wife, his wife should also become aware of what sex in the way of intimacy means for the husband.


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> She actually thought that the sex we had last week was fine. I told her it wasn't. I told her that her not participating made it less than enjoyable.


I don't know if I should be posting another comment here. And I want to be helpful (I hope this is ultimately helpful...)... 

But if my husband's desire was for more frequent sex with me, and he said something like this to me (that the sex we did have recently was not enjoyable to him, because I wasn't participating enough), I would feel sick and heartbroken. And possibly refuse to ever do it again with him. 

I hope it's not inappropriate for me to share that. I mean no disrespect to you. And not everyone woman feels the same. I can't say for certain that your wife reacted the same way that I would.

But reading that you said that to her broke my heart right now. I can understand that you want her to be more into it. But wanting more sex - yet having it and telling her it wasn't "good enough". That would lead me to feel very angry and resentful and to wonder "what's the use of her even doing it - at all - ever?" 

What do you think?


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

miss-understood,

If you just laid there, didn't kiss, caress, hug, hold hands, unresponsive, etc. but allowed your man to to have intercourse, how do you think he would feel about you? He would likely wonder what was going on that you weren't participating. Guys want their partner to participate and enjoy their lovemaking sessions. That is part of the intimacy we want and need. 

If you act detached, unemotional and uninterested it's not a very satisfying experience.


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I don't disagree with this, but would also expand upon it. It needs to go both ways - as a man should learn to be aware of what it means to his wife, his wife should also become aware of what sex in the way of intimacy means for the husband.


I agree with you, in theory! 

But this is why I'm suggesting that men who are unhappy with their sex lives with their wives give some consideration to this aspect - so that it can _*begin*_ to go both ways. If it's historically been going only one way, in their relationships. 

His awareness is the counterpoint to the biological fact that often goes unacknowledged and unexamined. 

Sex is invasive for women, and not for men. There's no "equivalent" for the woman to understand about the man. 

Her understanding and accommodation of his desire is provided by her literally physically accommodating the man's body pushing past her physical boundaries and _*into*_ her space. 

That is the action that I think the man needs to balance out and recognize - in order to experience drastically different results. His "understanding" and awareness of this provides the balance to the "understanding" and physical accommodation that her body provides. 

I don't think men need to recognize this because women are victims, or because it's so "bad" or "unfair". But by recognizing it, a man has the potential to transform his wife's reactions and interest. And have a much more interesting sex life!


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

miss-understood said:


> I agree with you, in theory!
> 
> But this is why I'm suggesting that men who are unhappy with their sex lives with their wives give some consideration to this aspect - so that it can _*begin*_ to go both ways. If it's historically been going only one way, in their relationships.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... trying to get my arms wrapped around this.  In one sense, I understand what you are saying. For me, what it really all boils down to, is simply having my partner being understanding of *me* - whether that's understanding that my innards are different and that makes me feel things differently physically and emotionally, or whether that's understanding about some of my personality 'quirks', or whatever.  Having my husband be understanding in these things - whether it is my physical differences, female issues, or emotional state is a great turn-on. I think that he would say my understanding of those same things with him, is also one.

Just to play a little bit of devil's advocate here - it took me a long time to understand my husband's physical needs and what they really meant to him. To him, his physical desires for me are like a taut rope that binds us together. Even though his parts are on the 'outside', I did not understand how this was connected to things on his 'inside' - his emotions, sense of well-being, even sense of self. I am glad that I understand this better now.


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> miss-understood,
> 
> If you just laid there, didn't kiss, caress, hug, hold hands, unresponsive, etc. but allowed your man to to have intercourse, how do you think he would feel about you? He would likely wonder what was going on that you weren't participating. Guys want their partner to participate and enjoy their lovemaking sessions. That is part of the intimacy we want and need.
> 
> If you act detached, unemotional and uninterested it's not a very satisfying experience.



To the contrary, he gives me the sexual freedom to act/be however I really am, and however I really feel. Sometimes I'm really not all that into it (and we do it anyway - because he's into it). He's not criticized for how he feels and what he wants. And I'm not criticized for how I feel and what I want at that moment. 

Not to get too personal... but I'm "allowed" to not participate if I'm not feelin' it. I *do *give him the option upfront to have sex (knowing that I'm not particularly into it), or to not do it if "motionless" and "disinterested" would be more annoying to him than pleasing, at the moment. His choice. (He usually chooses to go for it, by the way!) 

That's fine with me!

However, if he chose to do it - but then said it wasn't "enjoyable"... I'd be mortified. And really angry that he did it at all! (Versus declining the offer). That would cause some serious hurt feelings and resentment.

True, it may not always be _as_ enjoyable as when i'm more into it. But knowing that I have that _*freedom*_ to be my true self, at all times, makes for other times that are very very mutually enjoyable and intimate.

That is true sexual freedom, in my opinion.

I don't know if that in any way helps to describe my view. Again, you don't have to agree with me or anything. It's just my view and my experience within my marriage.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

miss-understood said:


> I agree with you, in theory!
> 
> But this is why I'm suggesting that men who are unhappy with their sex lives with their wives give some consideration to this aspect - so that it can _*begin*_ to go both ways. If it's historically been going only one way, in their relationships.
> 
> ...


Oh I think you are explaining this so much better and it's very true.

I believe when you get married and give your self to a man like that, allow him into your very personal private most intimate space that he should value you like no other. This is why sex with people you are not in love with and who do not deeply care for is a bad idea.

I like my fiance to have access to me and my body whenever he wants, because I want his needs to be met, however I probably wouldn't feel that way if I didn't think he really loved me, cherished me and ultimately cared deeply for me. 

You can't give your self to some one selfish who doesn't also want to meet your needs or appreciate the *gift* you give them, or if you do things will not get well for your relationship.


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Just to play a little bit of devil's advocate here - it took me a long time to understand my husband's physical needs and what they really meant to him. To him, his physical desires for me are like a taut rope that binds us together. Even though his parts are on the 'outside', I did not understand how this was connected to things on his 'inside' - his emotions, sense of well-being, even sense of self. I am glad that I understand this better now.


Enchantment, that is really very interesting and profound the way you described your husband's needs for intimacy. I hear you! And I'm really glad you shared that.

Also, the stuff I'm mentioning might not even be an issue in your relationship. I'm primarily bringing it up (that physical accommodation concept) in terms of how considering that aspect could help in cases where a couple's sexual relationship is fragmented and there's a serious rift. 

If you're not experiencing a serious rift, it might not be helpful info to you. It might not even be fathomable - because your husband may already be providing that level of beneath-the-surface "understanding" and respect. 

I think this one runs beneath the surface a lot of times. Maybe that sounds weird. But hey, it's just what I believe works! No one has to literally agree with me! It's a free country...


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

miss-understood said:


> Not to get too personal... but I'm "allowed" to not participate if I'm not feelin' it.


I'm really trying to understand you but I just can't. I mean here is just one of many examples I could give I'm a homemaker and my husband is the provider. He's not allowed to just stay at home just because he's "not feelin it" that day. 

I've got kids and they are huggy/kissy kids and I'm not. I'm not allowed to push them aside just because I'm not feelin it. 

I do things because it's the right thing to do for the people I love including participating in sex even I'm not feelin it either. I mean sure I've had times when I was ill and didn't go all out in my participation but I made a sincere effort I didn't just lay there like some rubber doll that he could screw.

I just don't get it. Most men are happy with sex a few times a week is it so terrible to love them anyway even when you don't feel like it? Isn't that what true love is doing things you don't like but choosing to do them anyway because you love them?


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> I'm really trying to understand you but I just can't. I mean here is just one of many examples I could give I'm a homemaker and my husband is the provider. He's not allowed to just stay at home just because he's "not feelin it" that day.
> 
> I've got kids and they are huggy/kissy kids and I'm not. I'm not allowed to push them aside just because I'm not feelin it.
> 
> ...


Magnolia - oh I think feel the same way as you!

I meant to say that I'm allowed to kind of "go with the motions" (and basically just lay there) without being criticized for it. I'm not expected to put on some big act or pretend that i'm really into - at times when I'm not! Do you know what I mean?

When I said "not participating" I didn't mean turning him away! I meant not being forced into putting on some act, just to please him (with fakeness). We may still make love. but I can feel however I really genuinely feel! That includes being really into it many times - genuinely really into. And he gets the satisfaction of knowing that's it's 100% genuine and real, through and through. It's never an "act". 

Hope that makes sense. 

To me that is true love going both ways! Acceptance, accommodation - but with authenticity. Not the kind of accommodation that is self-destructive or weird/codependant/martyrish! That freedom to be real and authentic means the world to me. And I think he reaps many rewards from it, too.


----------



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

miss-understood, 

I'm not expecting a big act every time. But, I am expecting her to show some basic interest more than just laying there. Sex is both a physical and an emotional need. The emotional involvement enhances the physical tremendously.


----------



## miss-understood (Jun 13, 2011)

txt - I think I get what you're saying. I think it would still have a very neg impact if my husband said he "expected" something sexual from me. Do you know what I mean? 

Sex can be so intimate and loving. Expectations and demands can so totally kill romance and a desire to open oneself up. And for women, we do - literally - have to "open ourselves up" in order to have sex.

I get what you mean about how the emotional involvement enhances the physical part. I do. But you had said that she thought the time you did it (last week I think?), was fine. It sounds like you two may have different views on this, and she may feel differently? 

Who way is "right" or "wrong"? Who "wins"?

I don't want to dismiss your view and feelings. I don't think she should trump you, per se. At the same time, if you're the one who wants more sex, and greater intimacy, telling her a time that you guys did it wasn't good, might further shut her down and strangle any hope for the future. 

I don't know for sure. I can't speak for your wife (or any other woman), but I know that if my husband told me that he "expected" this or that from me sexually, or that doing it with me was bad (for whatever reason, even just once), I'd be heartbroken and really angry - I'd possibly pull away big time - and keep my distance from him.

Then again, for me: giving, and being given sexual freedom is essential to me (freedom without expectation or judgment). Without it, I think sex would seem more gross to me than "intimate". 

That might not be true for everyone. I don't know. 

I obviously don't have any clear "answers" here. These are just thoughts.


----------

