# God & Drugs, too much of one, not enough of the other...



## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

My wife told me today that she wants a divorce as she is moving in a more serious direction with her spirituality. I am a standard non-believer and have been throughout our 12 year marriage, to which she professed from the beginning that she was ok with.

Over the last year she rekindled her faith which she had strayed from before we had even met. She has grown so involved in the church, I can't relate to any of her friends and many of the activities in which she is involved. To make matters worse, she has clinical depression and refuses to take her medication as she says if she stays on top of reading her scriptures she doesn't need it to be who she wants to be. Which, unfortunately is a person that experiences such highs and lows that before the meds came along, I was at the end of my rope. When she got help it completely turned things around for us. 

This would be her third failed marriage and my first and I am at a loss as to how to cope. We have two sons together, along with a son and daughter, one each from each of her previous marriages. 

She says that she doesn't want to force me into religion as it wouldn't be fair to me, but that she wants a spiritual partner. I want to save my marriage and offered to make an effort to find my faith, but I fear it will not only be too little too late, but that I will only be fooling myself. 

I don't want my children to have to endure being torn between two parents. I grew up that way and when I chose to marry, I had done so for life. If she insists that we are so different because of the recent changes she has realized through her faith and won't make the effort to stay on the medication that truly does help her to be more stable, I don't know what to do... I love my wife and my family and I don't want to lose what I have spent the last 12 years of my life building... Please help...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What do you want to know?


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Has anyone here experienced something similar and was successful in working through either the spirituality differences, the unwillingness to stay on prescribed medication or both?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

End_Run said:


> Has anyone here experienced something similar and was successful in working through either the spirituality differences, the unwillingness to stay on prescribed medication or both?


Define "successful"


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Well, considering that I mentioned I would like to keep my marriage and family together, I suppose that is my is my end goal and would constitute a success.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

End_Run said:


> Well, considering that I mentioned I would like to keep my marriage and family together, I suppose that is my is my end goal and would constitute a success.


If you focus on that, failure is assured.

It's putting the cart before the horse.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Conrad said:


> If you focus on that, failure is assured.
> 
> It's putting the cart before the horse.


So what else should I be focusing on? I can't force myself to suddenly believe in God overnight, nor can I force medication down my wife's throat. 

I have wholeheartedly supported her search for faith as it is important to her. She recently decided that she didn't need the meds anymore because of her ability to use scripture instead, but that is plainly not the case when everything is fine in the home one moment, but the next she is screaming at the children because they were playing too loudly while she was trying to read...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

End_Run said:


> So what else should I be focusing on? I can't force myself to suddenly believe in God overnight, nor can I force medication down my wife's throat.
> 
> I have wholeheartedly supported her search for faith as it is important to her. She recently decided that she didn't need the meds anymore because of her ability to use scripture instead, but that is plainly not the case when everything is fine in the home one moment, but the next she is screaming at the children because they were playing too loudly while she was trying to read...


She's lost attraction and respect for you.

First, take note of what's happened to you in the relationship.

How are you different now than the man she fell in love with?

Is the man you are now the man you were born to be?

If not, your first order of business is getting back to being that guy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

End_Run said:


> So what else should I be focusing on? I can't force myself to suddenly believe in God overnight, nor can I force medication down my wife's throat.
> 
> I have wholeheartedly supported her search for faith as it is important to her. She recently decided that she didn't need the meds anymore because of her ability to use scripture instead, but that is plainly not the case when everything is fine in the home one moment, but the next she is screaming at the children because they were playing too loudly while she was trying to read...


Have you told here very clearly that what she is doing is not working and her moods swings are anything but under control?


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Since you describe yourself as a non-believer, you may not be familiar with the following directives from the Bible. They are pretty clear about this topic.

_To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband . . . And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. _ - 1 Corinthians 7:10 - 13

And here's something said by Jesus himself:

_" . . . anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."_ - Matthew 5:32


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

She is using her religious beliefs as her excuse to not take the medication and you cant force her one way or the other. You cant suddenly become spiritual and I suspect that even if you tried she would find some other reason to want a divorce. 

See the situation for what it is, not what she is telling you. A religious person and non religious person can have a happy life together but it is difficult in the best of cirumstances. She wants a spiritual partner. She doesn’t want you if what she said. 

Your best shot whether you believe it or not is to give her exactly what she wants, file for divorce, figure a plan and execute it. She must start to see you in a different light and she must start to look at her situation and start to evaluate whats going on. 

Maybe she has a newfound faith and wants to go a different path with her life. People with depression typically jump and go for short term highs, way to avoid there problems. I am not religious and usually try to avoid the religious discussions because its such a hot button issue with people but given what you wrote of her history I tend to wonder just how long lasting the new religious path will be with her. What rekindled her interest again in the church?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

ER,

For what it's worth: my ex wife claimed to be a Christian when we married. She was raised Catholic. During her first serious relationship that led to marriage she had an abortion. The marriage later failed and she divorced him.

For her second marriage she converted to Judaism. They had two kids. The marriage later failed and she divorced him.

When she married me I was saved but not practicing, and neither was she. She only became interested in religion again when she heard that her children's stepmother was teaching them about the Catholic faith. She got jealous saying she should be the one teaching them. I asked why does it matter since they are being raised as Jews? She also fought with H2 about the boys going to Hebrew school. 

At the end of our marriage we started going to church and she converted to my protestant faith and became born again, then she divorced me.

BTW, her sister is very religious too. She's so religious that she told my ex wife that she wanted to have an affair with a guy she met in her church. 

After ex wife and I divorced, she stopped going to our church. Last anyone heard she was going to one of those new age spiritual places. 


My point: anyone can claim that they are religious, but a real believer doesn't divorce their spouse over trivial matters. A real Christian follows the Scriptural teachings.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Conrad said:


> She's lost attraction and respect for you.
> 
> First, take note of what's happened to you in the relationship.
> 
> ...


I am and have been a devout workaholic, which doesn't allow for much else in my life, with the exception of the interactions I have with my wife and children at home. I don't have any real "friends" to speak of as I never have time to build those relationships. I am the most unchanging person I know... I work and I try to be a father and a husband on my off time. That was who I was when she met me and it is still who I am today... The only change I can think of is that she started working for me in the small construction firm in which I work about two years ago, but I thought that it drew us closer as we had more time and she could see and understand what was going on at work that made me work such long hours.



EleGirl said:


> Have you told here very clearly that what she is doing is not working and her moods swings are anything but under control?


I have, but she is insistent that she does not need the medication as it just makes her numb inside. I can understand a person not wanting to have to go through life feeling like that, but she won't even consider going to her doc to maybe change up the prescription to see if something else works. 



MSP said:


> Since you describe yourself as a non-believer, you may not be familiar with the following directives from the Bible. They are pretty clear about this topic.
> 
> _To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband . . . And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. _ - 1 Corinthians 7:10 - 13
> 
> ...


You are correct, I am not familiar with these quotes or concepts in relation to faith and religion... maybe she is, but as I am her 3rd husband, apparently she's not too concerned with the sins she is committing...



honcho said:


> She doesn’t want you if what she said.
> 
> Your best shot whether you believe it or not is to give her exactly what she wants, file for divorce, figure a plan and execute it. She must start to see you in a different light and she must start to look at her situation and start to evaluate whats going on.
> 
> Maybe she has a newfound faith and wants to go a different path with her life... What rekindled her interest again in the church?


You're exactly right, she doesn't want me, but I believe that it is because she is allowing her faith to drive a wedge between us and the fact that she won't medicate properly keeps her from seeing the what it will do to our family... She is being selfish in her desires and our children will be the ones to pay the price. 

I know what it is like not to have a father in the home and being a boy who had to learn everything about becoming a man physically, mentally and emotionally by myself. 

To answer your question, she started back up as a social exercise to get out and find friends, and to expose our children to it so they had a basis off of which they could start to explore their faith. 



Pictureless said:


> My point: anyone can claim that they are religious, but a real believer doesn't divorce their spouse over trivial matters. A real Christian follows the Scriptural teachings.


I couldn't agree more, I was wondering how she can profess to be so devout and yet she is breaking this bond again. Makes me think there's more to it than just wanting a spiritual partner if hypocrisy is allowed to fly around unabated...


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

*Update*: So I spoke at length with my potentially STBXW last night and it seems that she is unhappy with the hours that I put in, the idea that she can never fully experience and explore her faith without a spiritual partner and that I almost left her 10 years ago. Which was a new spin on things and is true...

Ten years ago, we were a couple of years in to our marriage and I got promoted to a new position in another state which enveloped ALL of my time. She got bored around the house with the kids all day and happened to get involved with another woman...

I was working practically all day and night to support my family and she was seeing this woman (PA & EA)... This went on for a month or so before I discovered her secret via a wayward email I found on the family computer that had been left up... Needless to say I was shattered and we struggled with it for months. This work assignment ended and we moved again, but I had to stay behind to close out our operations and during this time, I told her that it would be a good opportunity for me to make sure a life with her was what I wanted.

So, after about a month, I returned to tell her that I wasn't leaving and that I did want to make it work... but in her mind, I was already gone and she had already grieved and basically moved on thinking there was no way I would come back. (For those of you who are wondering, yes, during the time apart I also had an affair, thinking it would make me feel better, but it did not... it only solidified where I really wanted to be.) 

Anyway, since that time, we've been through 4 more moves, she's had 2 more indiscretions - one with a man and one with a woman, I eventually told her about my one instance of being unfaithful, had another son together, dealt with a massive tax debt that strapped us for 3 years and somehow still made it through. 

But this new piece of news, this revelation that is a contributing factor to her wanting to leave NOW all of a sudden, is something that happened 10 years ago... I would get it if I were cheating, an alcoholic or abusive... it was just that I left to get my head straight; because she was the one that cheated on me... 

Apparently, all of the other crazy crap that we went through together wasn't a good reason to leave... but this issue is one of her major factors for leaving now... 10 years later!!!

I also learned in my conversation with her last night, that she has been planning this for over 2 months and has been squirreling money away so that she can move to Utah to be closer to her father who is slowly dying of prostate cancer. She has apartments selected to visit and has been looking in to jobs there.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Ok, you are now starting to get the standard excuses, it ended 10 years ago but she has been sticking it out, she had affair because you worked too much? She has had multiple affairs during this marriage and you have had one also. 

This isn’t happening today because of an event 10 years ago. Yes I will sound like the cynical one here but once you cut thru the excuses and blaming yourself and you start to investigate whats really going on given her history why will I not be surprised when you learn all about a new “close” friend in this church group. 

Either way your best move right now is to start doing the 180 on her, start gathering facts and start preparing yourself for life without her. In her grand plans to run off to Utah did those include taking the kids or was she just planning on leaving them with you?


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> Ok, you are now starting to get the standard excuses, it ended 10 years ago but she has been sticking it out, she had affair because you worked too much?


Yes, that was her reasoning...



honcho said:


> This isn’t happening today because of an event 10 years ago. Yes I will sound like the cynical one here but once you cut thru the excuses and blaming yourself and you start to investigate whats really going on given her history why will I not be surprised when you learn all about a new “close” friend in this church group.


I would tend to agree with you. I did ask her when she first broke the news, and she vehemently denied having another affair, and threw it back in my face saying, "see, why would you want to be with someone you don't even trust!" 

Which is a question I have asked throughout my marriage, but it all comes back to my own history and wanting to be a present and responsible father figure for the children in my home.



honcho said:


> Either way your best move right now is to start doing the 180 on her, start gathering facts and start preparing yourself for life without her. In her grand plans to run off to Utah did those include taking the kids or was she just planning on leaving them with you?


What kinds of facts should I be gathering? 

And yes, she is planning on taking the kids... she did say she would let our 12 year old decide for himself though if the court would let him. He is very much like me and this whole thing is going to devastate him the most I think...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're two months behind your wife... You need to talk to a lawyer ASAP and find out what your options are. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

PBear said:


> You're two months behind your wife... You need to talk to a lawyer ASAP and find out what your options are.


That sounds like a good idea for sure... but I have never had to work with an attorney for anything in my life, so I have a few questions about that too:

How does one find a quality/affordable attorney? 

If she ends up filing in Utah, do I need an attorney in Utah or can I get one in my local area?

Would filing in my own state first, before she moves to Utah help or hinder my cause?

Do you have to get them on retainer right away or can you pick and choose before putting any money down? 

Are there certain cues I should listen for a "good" or "bad" attorney to say when speaking with them?

I know everyone's situations are different, but is there anything that I absolutely need an attorney to accomplish for me? Pitfalls or omissions that I should look for so it doesn't totally screw up the process?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Put a call into a few family law/divorce attorneys in your area, asap, Many will give you a free consultation first that will explain your options and the cost of them. Find out how to go about blocking her from removing your children from their family home and state to Utah.

Here...Divorce Information for Men and Fathers DadsDivorce.com

Dads Divorce Forum Divorce advice for men - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

End_run,

Get a lawyer, you can't convince her of anything considering her irrational position.
You also can't "make" yourself believe anything.
Contrary to popular belief we as humans have no control over what we believe.

You need to find a lawyer who specializes in family issues.
Discuss your desire to keep your children within your area, meaning she won't be able to remove them from the state.

If you're lucky her god will prove more valuable to her than her children and she'll leave them with you when she moves.

She is not worth fighting for


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

She would have to live in Utah to establish residency in order to file there. Each and every state has its owns laws on how long that requirement is. 

Honestly in my opinion your probably going to come home to an empty house and learn the hard way she has moved to Utah with the kids. Once across a state line it becomes a real headache and mess. 

Your best bet is to find an attorney right away and get sound legal advice, each and every state has very different laws and as someone else stated she has had a couple month head start on her "master plan" You cant trust what she says right now so dont buy into any of the denials. Whether she is or isnt is almost irrelovant as she has told you she wants a divorce and move out of state. Those are her intentions. Start checking her phone records, internet activity, bank statements, she already told you she is hiding money. 

You need to start protecting yourself and children


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can't keep a woman if you don't pay attention to her and her emotional needs.

Cheating, finding religion.. It's all one and the same. It's a yearning to replace what is missing from her marriage.

Chasing her by "finding religion" yourself is not going to help you in the slightest. If she were finding religion as a true calling rather than a marital diversion then she would be heeding it's teachings rather than completely ignoring them.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> Put a call into a few family law/divorce attorneys in your area... Find out how to go about blocking her from removing your children from their family home and state to Utah.





tacoma said:


> Get a lawyer... You need to find a lawyer who specializes in family issues. Discuss your desire to keep your children within your area, meaning she won't be able to remove them from the state.


Good advice, looking in to finding one...



honcho said:


> She would have to live in Utah to establish residency in order to file there. Each and every state has its owns laws on how long that requirement is.


Right... and as she's been through 2 divorces already, I would think that she knew better already. She thought that I would be cool with this whole thing and just sit back and watch my family disintegrate before my eyes... She sure misjudged that one...



honcho said:


> Honestly in my opinion your probably going to come home to an empty house and learn the hard way she has moved to Utah with the kids. Once across a state line it becomes a real headache and mess.


I hope you're wrong about that, but that is certainly a major concern... 



honcho said:


> Your best bet is to find an attorney right away and get sound legal advice, each and every state has very different laws and as someone else stated she has had a couple month head start on her "master plan" You cant trust what she says right now so dont buy into any of the denials. Whether she is or isnt is almost irrelovant as she has told you she wants a divorce and move out of state. Those are her intentions. Start checking her phone records, internet activity, bank statements, she already told you she is hiding money.
> 
> You need to start protecting yourself and children


Thank you Honcho... That is brutally honest but unfortunately more than likely true... 

I recently found out that she has a deposit down on the new place in UT and that she even went so far as to buy new dishes... 



Hicks said:


> You can't keep a woman if you don't pay attention to her and her emotional needs.
> 
> Cheating, finding religion.. It's all one and the same. It's a yearning to replace what is missing from her marriage.
> 
> Chasing her by "finding religion" yourself is not going to help you in the slightest. If she were finding religion as a true calling rather than a marital diversion then she would be heeding it's teachings rather than completely ignoring them.


Very true Hicks, but I haven't given up yet... I may not be able to change overnight, nor have I been the most attentive husband in the world, but it was all because I worked so hard for all of them. If I can work so hard for a company that I drove my wife away, surely I can work as hard if not harder to keep my family together.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

*UPDATE:* 

I am working on myself a lot lately. Trying to get a handle on all of the various issues that have driven my wife to make such a rash decision. We went on a road trip together for a friend's wedding and I thought that we made some really good progress. 

I have made a huge and real effort to participate in the church over the last two weeks and feel like I am getting somewhere. (Being conscious of doing this for myself, not deluding myself in to believing something for her...) Really, it has mainly led to more questions as to how she thinks what she is doing could possibly be right or ok with Him...

I have been making a concerted effort to reorganize my day so I work more efficiently and get everything wrapped up so I can be done and get home earlier. 

I have cut drinking and smoking out completely cold turkey. I only did both socially, but it's not something I need in my life if it's one more thing I can be rid of to help my chances. My kids are more important than a cigarette or a drink with a friend.

When we were first married, I had some movie posters of my favorite films that I'd had in my home before we started living together and we agreed that I would decorate the living room and she could decorate the rest of the house however she wanted. So for our entire marriage, these posters have been up... She said she felt like the house was cluttered and noted the posters as being an issue, so I removed them thinking this would help. She walked in the door and was upset with me because now the walls were bare and she didn't have anything to replace the posters with... Can't win for losing I suppose...

I had a lengthy and very valuable conversation with one of her good friends and a leader in the church. I believe I have an ally in him and his wife is very close with mine. Strangely, as close as they are, my wife had not confided any of her moving plans with these folks. I think because she knows that they would be so disappointed in her and would call her on her false religious reasoning in a heartbeat. 

Anyway, this guy put me in touch with a therapist and my wife has said she will go with me and that she is willing to try... I just hope that she will truly put in an honest effort...

I am also on the hunt for an attorney... but between spending every waking moment on trying to save my marriage or working, I haven't had much opportunity to make many calls.

I really appreciate your input and look forward to hearing more opinions on my situation. This process is helping me stay grounded and realistic on what may or may not happen.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

End_Run said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I am working on myself a lot lately. Trying to get a handle on all of the various issues that have driven my wife to make such a rash decision. We went on a road trip together for a friend's wedding and I thought that we made some really good progress.
> 
> ...


My "Christian" exwife and I went to bible study and counseling on Wednesday, a Christmas party on Thursday, and we broke up on Friday. 

Listen to Honcho. She's told you her intentions. Protect yourself. 

Listen to me. Prepare emotionally for life without her. By the time a woman hints about leaving she's already developed a plan and is working on detaching her feelings.

If you go to MC she has to show that she is there to put the work in to save the M. Otherwise it's a stall tactic, shopping for a therapeutic excuse to divorce, or an alibi to say she tried to save it but it's your fault.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Listen to Honcho. She's told you her intentions. Protect yourself.
> 
> Listen to me. Prepare emotionally for life without her. By the time a woman hints about leaving she's already developed a plan and is working on detaching her feelings.


Well that's more sound advice... I had a long conversation with her this morning and she says she feels like she's been a single parent for a long time because of the amount of time I put in at work. I had been hopeful and trying to stay optimistic, but from everything I'm getting here and hearing from her, that hope is fading...



Pictureless said:


> If you go to MC she has to show that she is there to put the work in to save the M. Otherwise it's a stall tactic, shopping for a therapeutic excuse to divorce, or an alibi to say she tried to save it but it's your fault.


Even after our talk today, she says that she will go with me to MC, but can't guarantee anything... That sounds like the stall tactic you mentioned... 

I've been preparing for the end since she told me, but I just don't want to accept that 13 years of my life and 12 years of marriage might be drawing to an end. All of her reasons for leaving are things that I am willing and able to change or fix... 

Her last words today were that it may be too little too late... How can that be the case when I am so willing to do whatever it takes? Why would she throw away someone that would do anything for her? She's been thinking about this for years and hasn't made any indication that there was an issue... I've been blindsided by this and ready to make whatever changes are necessary for her and for us... Why didn't she tell me sooner? Why didn't I see that it was slipping away?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

End_Run said:


> Her last words today were that it may be too little too late... How can that be the case when I am so willing to do whatever it takes? Why would she throw away someone that would do anything for her? She's been thinking about this for years and hasn't made any indication that there was an issue... I've been blindsided by this and ready to make whatever changes are necessary for her and for us... Why didn't she tell me sooner? Why didn't I see that it was slipping away?


Because she's a woman. They communicate their needs and wants differently. Men get blindsided because women bury their pain and resentment until they can't take it anymore. We don't read minds. We communicate content, they communicate context.

It may well be too late. Often by the time they tell us something is wrong they've lost hope and faith. They think things are beyond repair. Worse, they see any attempts at saving the relationship as a self serving ploy; it drives them away further. 

If she's truly a Christian women there's always a chance. But if she's going through the motions like my ex wife then her message is in her actions not her words.

One thing is for certain: you can't nice her back. And begging, bargaining, and pleading won't work either. She has to want it.

I'd focus on you. Get emotionally and mentally tough. Protect yourself. Don't drive her away, but don't chase her. Show strength through your words and actions that you will survive without her, just like you did before you met her. Continue making the honest changes in yourself for you not her. 

If you keep getting demands and poop tests she will lose more respect for you. Its hard to love someone you don't respect. And resentment and gratitude cannot coexist.

We're routing for you. Good luck


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

End_Run said:


> Her last words today were that it may be too little too late... How can that be the case when I am so willing to do whatever it takes? Why would she throw away someone that would do anything for her? She's been thinking about this for years and hasn't made any indication that there was an issue... I've been blindsided by this and ready to make whatever changes are necessary for her and for us... Why didn't she tell me sooner? Why didn't I see that it was slipping away?


I have a feeling your STBX found a little more than religion. Have you investigated the possibility of another romantic interest? She has a history of cheating, right?

Why did her previous marriages end? Do you know the truth?

Here's the deal, EndRun:

You cannot nice her back. Whatever it is that you are competing with...whether it's religion or another romantic interest....realize that you cannot win!

Her mind is made up. Your best course of action is to follow the steps of the 180. Work on you. Focus on being the best dad you can be. Stop being a husband. Live as if you are divorced. Separate your finances. Change your appearance. Get into shape. Become attractive to other women. 

She wants out? Let her go. You cannot control her. 

The person who controls the relationship is the one who is willing to end it.

PS: Please remove her from this ridiculous pedestal you've created for her.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I have a feeling your STBX found a little more than religion. Have you investigated the possibility of another romantic interest? She has a history of cheating, right?
> 
> Why did her previous marriages end? Do you know the truth?
> 
> ...


Listen to the ass.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Because you are now to the point where she has to blame you for “driving” her away and its called blame deflecting. All of her reasons for this and your ability and willingness to change haven’t yet gotten to the real problem in your marriage. 

You have been blindsided because that is what she wanted, it is easier to run from problems than work on them. The more hoops you jump thru to show her what a good guy you are the more it reinforces in her mind she can do whatever she wants. You will always hang around. 

You want to work more effectively, quit spinning your wheels trying to convince her of something, hire an attorney and make that your first priority and start to show her what life without you is.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

That's not a good update endrun.

You are bowing to her needs and ignoring your own.

This will end badly.

Ask yourself "What do I want?" and draw boundaries that protect your needs then stick to them.

You need to work far less towards appeasing your wife and get that lawyer right now.Stop putting it off.

You absolutely must get some protecting in place to keep her from taking your children out of state right now man.


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## WaverlyHanson (Apr 20, 2014)

Hi I am sorry to hear of all the pain you have already experienced in this relationship and it sounds like she has her own pain as well as mixed up as she seems to be. The extreme ups and downs makes it sound like a serious mental health condition.

Anyway, one more thought to add to all this....If you want to do so, you can probably prevent her legally from leaving the area with the children since that would make it impossible for you to have regular contact with them. 

Additionally, I would imagine you not only don't want them to feel abandoned by you and have regular contact with them, but also want to be positive they are doing well emotionally in the care of someone about whom you have big concerns regarding her mental health needs.

Most attorneys will give you at least a half hour session to discuss your situation and you can also get lots of information on the internet about all this.

Sometimes the court will require a mental health evaluation.

Or....as the last person asked, is she planning on the children staying with you? 

Wishing you all the best,

WaverlyHanson


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## WaverlyHanson (Apr 20, 2014)

Hi again!

Forgot to mention that taking the children and leaving can be considered kidnapping under certain circumstances which is why you need to get legal protection in place right away.

WaverlyHanson


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

*Update:*

Hello TAM! I have been away for a while working on me & doing what I can to save my marriage. At this point, it seems that I have a chance at saving what I was close to thinking was a completely lost cause. 

How did I do this you might ask...???

1. I was honest with myself, stood back, looked at my situation, stopped trying so hard and accepted that I might actually lose my marriage, but I never let go of the hope that she might change her mind. It turns out that by I was being too overbearing with my constant need to "fix" what was broken. I was choking out any chance that I had for R and pushing her farther away. 

2. I started working on positive changes for myself. These also happened to be things that were in line with what my wife had said were problems and why she was leaving. I was drinking, smoking, worked incessantly, I needed to be a part of the family more.... These were all very reasonable things of her to ask me to change and as a father, a husband and a partner, I recognized that these things were indeed nowhere near as important to me as saving my marriage and keeping my family together. I was coasting and didn't realize that I had unintentionally removed myself from my relationship.

3. I stopped being scared of what might be out there and made an honest effort to find God. Surprisingly, it was much easier than I had thought it would be and it has helped me tremendously throughout these trials. It turns out that We are not alone and He is here for us even when things are at their worst. In making this realization, I have found that there is an entire side to my relationship that I didn't even know existed and I can honestly say I am very excited about our future and what this new aspect of life holds for me. Furthermore, I have met some pretty incredible people who have been extremely supportive and helped her to recognize that the changes I am making are sincere.

4. I have stayed true to my cause and to myself since D-Day. You may say, "Yeah right! You stopped doing all these things you enjoyed and you found religion... something you said you would never do! You are a delusional hypocrite, it's only a matter of time before everything falls apart again." People I thought were my friends recently said similar things to me, but I realized these are people who truly must not know me and that I don't need that in my life either. The things I have changed about myself were not things that defined me as a person... They were distractions that consumed my attention and kept me away from the most important people in my life, my family. They were things that I was taught by my own dysfunctional upbringing, different sets of values that didn't mesh with those of the woman I chose to be my wife. I have a responsibility to be vigilant in participating in my own life... I have refocused my attention and know where I am going. 

It's not all better yet and it's not going to be easy... We have a TON of work to do, for ourselves and for our relationship, but we both recognize it, and have agreed to move forward together. She has also agreed to normalize her medication and to go back to the doc to see if there is something that might work better for her.

I would like to thank Amplexor for the sticky'd thread in R, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/1383-when-enough-enough.html. Reading your experience was exactly what I needed in order to take a huge step back from the constant worrying, anger, confusion and depression and realize that if I wanted my relationship to work, I had to let it go and let it work itself out. I can't tell you how profound a difference it made for me reading your story. Many thanks!

As things progress, I will keep updating this thread, and hopefully one day it can be moved to R alongside Amp's and it might one day inspire someone else. Thank you TAM!


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

End_Run, that is an encouraging update.

I think you truly have the wife you deserve!


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## Counterfit (Feb 2, 2014)

My Prediction: Your wife, who is clearly not a psychologically balanced person (to say the least......), is going to blind-side you and file for divorce at a moment when you least expect it - catching you completely unprepared......... 

I think she has her third divorce already planned out - the only question in her mind is when does she file - not if.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Counterfit said:


> My Prediction: Your wife, who is clearly not a psychologically balanced person (to say the least......), is going to blind-side you and file for divorce at a moment when you least expect it - catching you completely unprepared.........
> 
> I think she has her third divorce already planned out - the only question in her mind is when does she file - not if.


And I can completely appreciate that possibility, but I can't live scared of the hammer dropping again... 

What I can do, is to be the best version of myself possible and to take care of my children while supporting and helping my wife to sort her own issues. 

I know she is not perfect... but neither am I. This whole experience has reminded me why I married this woman and gotten me participating in my relationship again. In continuing to fight, I was able to remind her of at least some of the reasons why she married me and that all is not lost. 

As I said previously, it's not fixed yet and we both have a lot of work to do. I know that am strong enough to find out where this goes and will take my small victories as they come while continuing to work toward full reconciliation.


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## Counterfit (Feb 2, 2014)

End_Run said:


> And I can completely appreciate that possibility, but I can't live scared of the hammer dropping again...
> 
> What I can do, is to be the best version of myself possible and to take care of my children while supporting and helping my wife to sort her own issues.
> 
> ...


I do wish you well.....but two points to consider:

1. Your wife is experienced in the divorce racket - you are not.
2. Your wife has been divorced twice and has now threatened divorce in her third marriage - there is a reason for these marital failures and that reason is not you. The common denominator is her.

Now you have apparently set upon a course to "transform" yourself into a "new man" to appease your wife.....this "transformation" and effort to be a man who you are not will eventually exhaust you.


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## End_Run (Apr 10, 2014)

Counterfit said:


> I do wish you well.....but two points to consider:
> 
> 1. Your wife is experienced in the divorce racket - you are not.
> 2. Your wife has been divorced twice and has now threatened divorce in her third marriage - there is a reason for these marital failures and that reason is not you. The common denominator is her.
> ...


I do appreciate your words of caution, but I must disagree. I have been very cognizant of the changes I have undergone so as not to allow myself to be her door mat. I have not transformed myself into a new man, nor do I plan to do so. I am the same man I was before... The only changes I have made are that I no longer drink or smoke, I have a renewed sense of responsibility to the feelings and needs of my wife AND children (as the additional time I have been spending at home instead of at work has noticeably impacted them) and have found that being a spiritual person is nothing like what I had imagined it would be. As previously stated, I have actually found a great deal of personal strength as well as genuine support from the people I have gotten to know at church. I feel that making the decision to open my heart and honestly search for and eventually find Him is one of the best things I have ever done. 

If being a healthier, more responsible and spiritual person is what you consider appeasement, then I suppose that is exactly what I have done. In doing this for the betterment of myself and my family, I do not see how this could be difficult for me to maintain or seen as negative. My goal is to save my marriage and to be a positive and present partner and parent and the changes I have made will make it more likely that I will meet that goal. 

Besides, isn't marriage supposed to be a give and take? I was not aware of it, but for years, I had been taking without giving. I thought I was showing her how much I loved her by working my a$$ off providing for her and that I was a good husband because I could take care of her financially. It turns out that wasn't what she wanted or needed from me at all! Aren't we supposed to be there for our spouses when they are hurting, especially if we are the cause of that pain? 

I could blame her for her choices and mental issues as the main cause for my predicament, but I am the other half of this relationship and I have a responsibility to hold up my end as well. As I look inward, I know that I have not done enough and that I was just coasting along on auto-pilot, thinking everything was fine... 

I was not actively taking part in my relationship or taking care of my wife's needs. Could she have done a better job of communicating those needs to me? Of course! But she didn't and I was too involved with my work to see the collision course we were set upon. I know that following this path is not going to be easy, but I intend to maintain my own self respect and keep working towards reconciliation.


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