# Wife doesn't want more kids... I do



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

My wife has always viewed when we have children on her terms only, she got pregnant at 19, we had a kid, she had an affair at 22-24 and had two abortions, after reconciling at 26 she wanted a kid and got one, she's now 34 and doesn't want kids, so she puts in an IUD without even discussing it with me. Its' her body and her right, but it's also my right to walk out the door because of it right?

Ever since that IUD went in I went from wanting sex from her four times a day to simply not wanting it at all. I prefer to rub one out to a five minute pornhub video. This is very unlike me, I simply don't desire her at all anymore knowing she's infertile (by choice).

This tells me I'm not done as a father, I'm not done with creating a family. We've had a lot of issues anyway and she's a very difficult wife to be married to for a myriad of reasons. 

Has anyone here dealt with this? Where your wife is just like "shop closed, no more kids" but you want a few more? You don't want an empty nest in 15 years.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> My wife has always viewed when we have children on her terms only, she got pregnant at 19, we had a kid, she had an affair at 22-24 and had two abortions, after reconciling at 26 she wanted a kid and got one, she's now 34 and doesn't want kids, so she puts in an IUD without even discussing it with me. Its' her body and her right, but it's also my right to walk out the door because of it right?
> 
> Ever since that IUD went in I went from wanting sex from her four times a day to simply not wanting it at all. I prefer to rub one out to a five minute pornhub video. This is very unlike me, I simply don't desire her at all anymore knowing she's infertile (by choice).
> 
> ...


She is the one having the kids, not you. So her decision takes precedence.

If you are a responsible father, you need to help her raise the 2 kids you have.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Duguesclin said:


> She is the one having the kids, not you. So her decision takes precedence.
> 
> If you are a responsible father, you need to help her raise the 2 kids you have.


Yeah of course, I've always taken care of my kids (I have three by the way). You can do that divorced without much of an issue.

To me if my wife is "done having kids" and I'm not, maybe I need a new wife no?


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> Yeah of course, I've always taken care of my kids (I have three by the way). You can do that divorced without much of an issue.
> 
> To me if my wife is "done having kids" and I'm not, maybe I need a new wife no?


You see her as disposable and divorce is not a big deal.

We will have to agree to disagree.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Sigh... so many questions... so little time 😂

First, if you have a rocky marriage, it will not get better with more kids. 

Second, an empty nest is fun. With the right person. My kids are in college and will be there for the foreseeable future. It's not like they're on an interstellar trip.

Third, are you really asking her for sex four times a day? Could that have anything to do with her being a difficult person?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

john117 said:


> Third, are you really asking her for sex four times a day? Could that have anything to do with her being a difficult person?


I don't ask my wife for sex four times a day, point is I desired her greatly. Now that she's infertile sex is a chore and I don't desire her sexually at all.

I'm not looking for kids to "fix" anything. I'm looking for kids because I love being a father, raising kids, and want more than three.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

knobcreek said:


> To me if my wife is "done having kids" and I'm not, maybe I need a new wife no?


So, you'd let go of this wife, and risk not seeing the kids that you already have on a regular basis after going through a divorce, so you can have more kids with someone else?  

Maybe you should focus on the kids you have. I understand you're on different pages with having more kids, but having more kids won't erase the problems in your marriage, and leaving your wife over something like this, will only hurt the kids you do have. Just something to think about.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

How many kids did you discuss when you got married? I mean a few more, what three? Six? Twelve?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

knobcreek said:


> I don't ask my wife for sex four times a day, point is I desired her greatly. Now that she's infertile sex is a chore and I don't desire her sexually at all.
> 
> I'm not looking for kids to "fix" anything. I'm looking for kids because I love being a father, raising kids, and want more than three.


Ok, understood. 

Somehow you think being a father ends when you drop them off at the college dorm / apartment / army base... it doesn't. I talk more to my daughters (10-12 hours away each) now than when they were at home. They value my input and I'm an awesome guy to be around .

I would love to have them home till they finish college but that's years away. Social media and a smartphone is all you need. I lucked out that my girls followed career paths related to mine so we can talk business too. 

Do I live vicariously through my kids? A bit. I enjoy watching them go thru college. I came from Europe for college myself and know what a pain it is. But after I settled my mother and father visited me and mom said "don't ever think to come back. It hurts me to not see my child often but at the same time I know you like what you do".

If you have a couple kids you can offer them more resources like college funding, learning experiences, and the like. Which will help them down the road.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

On his other thread, a lot of other posters already suggested he turn her in for a new model because she's "only" a third grade teacher and he's pulling the big bucks now so he could do better. So this seems to just be another layer on the "maybe I should get a new wife" cake. He's in good shape and making lots of money now.

What happened to the concern about child molesters being around your kids if she starts dating? Because now you see being divorced in that regard as not really an issue.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> What happened to the concern about child molesters being around your kids if she starts dating? Because now you see being divorced in that regard as not really an issue.



For 20 years I've been the martyr and "did the right thing" and was completely taken for granted. The IUD is just the latest in a LONG line of what I would consider mental abuse by this woman.

I want more kids, my wife says no, even the Catholic Church would give you an annulment over this. I'm only 38 and I don't want to be childless in my early 50's. 

It's my wife's choice to not have children, but it's also mine to then dissolve the marriage and find a woman who wants to have kids with me. I don't see how that's so unfathomable?

Not to mention I just don't want her sexually since she is infertile, like she's just waiting for menopause. I am NOT there yet. I'm still young and riding this out.



Starstarfish said:


> On his other thread, a lot of other posters already suggested he turn her in for a new model because she's "only" a third grade teacher and he's pulling the big bucks now so he could do better.


You're leaving out the multiple affairs she had, now going out all the time drinking to all hours, the fighting, yelling, verbal abuse. But clearly you read what you want to read.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dump her.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> It's my wife's choice to not have children, but it's also mine to then dissolve the marriage and find a woman who wants to have kids with me. I don't see how that's so unfathomable?


I'm cool with that choice. I'm just pondering how I'd tell my kids, "Sorry, but having -more- kids was just way more important than being around you full time, and the new kids with the new younger hot fertile wife totally won't take precedence." 

And being a father by having more kids does not necessarily automatically equate to a great life for all those kids. 



> Not to mention I just don't want her sexually since she is infertile, like she's just waiting for menopause.


So your marriage had a natural death point anyways. You want to keep having kids until you are 50, a woman your own age won't be able to do that. She especially won't be able to keep doing that safely. 



> You're leaving out the multiple affairs she had, now going out all the time drinking to all hours, the fighting, yelling, verbal abuse. But clearly you read what you want to read.


Then that's what you need to focus on. I read that you previously said you were concerned that a child molester would date your her if you divorced because they prey on single/divorced moms with young children. What she acts like should have no impact on your concern for children if that concern is legitimate. 

Or is this going to be another AmericanSteve thread where simply fathering the children is all that matters and the behavior of the mother justifies leaving them behind to start a new family?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like you are trying to justify leaving her.

You don't have to justify it. Everyone has the right to leave if they want.

But keep in mind that your kids are going to have an opinion about what you do, too.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

If you have 3 kids how are you going to be childless in your 50's?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> If you have 3 kids how are you going to be childless in your 50's?


They won't be children anymore, they'll be adults. I don't want an empty nest when I'm in late 40's or early 50's.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Think about what you are asking. You love children yet you want to condemn them to start life in an unstable and toxic family. Their mother is a serial cheater and their father allows himself to be treated badly. Would you want to grow up in such a family? 

Don't have children with this woman. She does not want them and she is deceitful and selfish. She is willing to put her marriage at risk and destabilize her children lives for a few orgasms. 

Whatever you decide, put your children, born and unborn, first. You are their center. That does not mean you need to stay married.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> Yeah of course, I've always taken care of my kids (I have three by the way). You can do that divorced without much of an issue.
> 
> To me if my wife is "done having kids" and I'm not, maybe I need a new wife no?


Sounds all you want to do is breed, women generally do not want to be impregnated by men who are only interested in getting them pregnant but not much around for the rest of it nor emotionally supportive. 
You should examine your motivations, and your actions. Do you put much effort into your relationship with your wife? Moving on to another woman so you can breed (when you already have three children by two different women) suggests you are more interested in spreading your seed, which is a selfish and immature tbh. Be a man ffs and concentrate on what you have.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> They won't be children anymore, they'll be adults. I don't want an empty nest when I'm in late 40's or early 50's.


Sounds selfish, what about having a relationship with your wife? It's not all about the children. No wonder your wife doesn't want any more kids with you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Think about what you are asking. You love children yet you want to condemn them to start life in an unstable and toxic family. Their mother is a serial cheater and their father allows himself to be treated badly. Would you want to grow up in such a family?
> 
> Don't have children with this woman. She does not want them and she is deceitful and selfish. She is willing to put her marriage at risk and destabilize her children lives for a few orgasms.
> 
> Whatever you decide, put your children, born and unborn, first. You are their center. That does not mean you need to stay married.



That's right, just move onto another woman and maybe that relationship will or will not work and produce more children who have part time father. That's the problem with this world, too many men going around producing kids and only being part time fathers


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

aine said:


> Sounds all you want to do is breed, women generally do not want to be impregnated by men who are only interested in getting them pregnant but not much around for the rest of it nor emotionally supportive.
> You should examine your motivations, and your actions. Do you put much effort into your relationship with your wife? Moving on to another woman so you can breed (when you already have three children by two different women) suggests you are more interested in spreading your seed, which is a selfish and immature tbh. Be a man ffs and concentrate on what you have.


You sure read an awful lot into someone on the Internet with no real background knowledge...

Basically you're talking out of your ass, clearly you've been hurt and are very jaded. I don't have time for you drama and baggage, thanks.

My wife doesn't want any more kids period. Not just anymore kids with me, she says "I'm done". But I'm not done having kids, I'm 38, half my friends are just getting married and starting families at my age. I want more kids, to raise, bring to Little League, teach to swim. I'm not just a breeder, I'm a great father, and all three of my children are with my wife, I've never had a child with another woman and we've been married nearly 15 years.

But if she doesn't want anymore children and I want two to three more, we're at an impasse aren't we? I don't see why I should concede to not having anymore children just because my wife unilaterally decides "we're done". I do have a choice here, and I think that touches a nerve with you.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> You sure read an awful lot into someone on the Internet with no real background knowledge...
> 
> Basically you're talking out of your ass, clearly you've been hurt and are very jaded. I don't have time for you drama and baggage, thanks.
> 
> My wife doesn't want any more kids period. Not just anymore kids with me, she says "I'm done". But I'm not done having kids, I'm 38, half my friends are just getting married and starting families at my age. I won't more kids, to raise, bring to Little League, teach to swim. I'm not a breeder, and all three of my children are with my wife, I've never had a child with another woman and we've been married nearly 15 years.


Why do you want more kids? If you will done in fifteen years, then you have a three year old, right? And a much older kid?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> Think about what you are asking. You love children yet you want to condemn them to start life in an unstable and toxic family.


My family isn't toxic, my kids are all A students, have tons of friends, play sports, and very well adjusted. My wife hasn't cheated in about 11 years (I think), and it was all centered around one long separation period. Not excusing her behavior, but she hasn't cheated on me after we fully reconciled over a decade ago.

I don't have any fear bringing more children into this world, we raise good kids for all our faults (which are no more than anyone else out there)


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sorry, I misunderstood your situation.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Lilac23 said:


> Why do you want more kids? If you will done in fifteen years, then you have a three year old, right? And a much older kid?


My kids are 15, 9, and 4, by the time I'm 50 my youngest will be going off to college. No thanks, I don't want any empty nest at 50, at 60, or 65, no problem, but 50 is too young. I have the financial means, we bought a house than can easily accommodate them. I see no reason that I should concede to no more children at 38 if I want them.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Knobcreek, are you seeking some kind of approval to divorce your wife?


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> My kids are 15, 9, and 4, by the time I'm 50 my youngest will be going off to college. No thanks, I don't want any empty nest at 50, at 60, or 65, no problem, but 50 is too young. I have the financial means, we bought a house than can easily accommodate them. I see no reason that I should concede to no more children at 38 if I want them.


What about grandchildren?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Duguesclin said:


> Knobcreek, are you seeking some kind of approval to divorce your wife?


Not at all, to me a wife who refuses you children is grounds for divorce alone (even an annulment since I married Catholic). Toss in the previous cheating and some other BS, I don't need the approval of random anonymous folks on the Internet.

What I'm looking for is perhaps someone else in the same situation, or that was in the same situaton.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

You realize that there can be many complications for an older woman to have a baby?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

This isn't about kids, right? Its about control. Or, more specifically, her control.

Methinks you should be in a psychologists office here. You'll need some help in communicating your concerns, and mostly, she'll need some help not only hearing them, but also in modifying her behavior. Does she even see an issue with her choices or can she even acknowledge those choices involve and affect you?

I think the issue isn't so much if you should have more kids , ....they're not a substitute for your marriage,perhaps you're looking to them for the emotional gratification you want with her?..but if you really want or should continue in a loveless relationship where your needs don't seem to matter. 

More kids won't change..or address that.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

knobcreek said:


> You sure read an awful lot into someone on the Internet with no real background knowledge...
> 
> Basically you're talking out of your ass, clearly you've been hurt and are very jaded. I don't have time for you drama and baggage, thanks.
> 
> ...


Seriously think about this. If you are such a great father why would consider intentionally going out and giving them half siblings? It rarely works out that well and most likely you will be watering down the relationship with your existing children. That is not great parenting.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Bluntly speaking, do you have the resources to put five kids thru college? I have two in college and it's a great financial WTF. and I'm facing two kids at TEN years of college each, like their parents.

Do you think you'll have the energy to chase a five year old at 50-55?

It's not an easy choice.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

In this situation, you both have rights. You have a right to more children and she has a right not to have more. You can compromise on the number of additional children. 

Find out what her objections are. Is it the work that goes into caring for an infant and toddler or the rigors of pregnancy and childbirth or concerns about the effect on her career or financial concerns or doubts that she can handle more children. Perhaps you can talk about solutions to the impediments that she perceives.

On another note, you hint that you will consider D and having more children with another woman. That does not make sense since you say you love being a father and you are good at it. How do you reconcile the severe effects of D on 3 innocent souls. 

They see their father give up fall-time with them to be full-time with 3 new children. Its as if they grew up and learned how to swim and therefore lost their fathers interest. Their father needs to replenish his supply of nascent swimmers at a rate that gives him fresh dependents. 

Eventually, you will have less time for the older ones because they will grow out of the stage that you like. You will be busy doing the things that give you pleasure with the new ones. 

Can you imagine what that will do to their sense of self-worth? Are they happy and good children? Are they happy when dad comes home? 

Plumb the depths of your motivations and the effect of your decisions on the souls that are already defendant on you. If you are a believer, pray about it and be guided by love and compassion and not self-interest. Whose needs have priority and who should sacrifice for the happiness of the other. .


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> Not at all, to me a *wife who refuses you children is grounds for divorce alone (even an annulment since I married Catholic). *Toss in the previous cheating and some other BS, I don't need the approval of random anonymous folks on the Internet.


I have some experience with the Annulment process. 

The Church teaches that a valid marriage cannot be dissolved. The Annulment process is designed to look at the marriage and determine validity. The Church looks at knowledge and intention at the time of the wedding to make that determination. The Church also looks at actions after the wedding as evidence of knowledge and intention. 

If your wife can honestly say that she was open to children at the time of the ceremony, even if she has since changed her mind, the Church will likely consider the marriage valid. Especially since she proved she was "open to life" by having the children you've already got.

Now, if you have other grounds, fine. But using your wife's refusal to have more children likely won't fly.

Before you consider divorce, consider the possibility that you could be cut off from the Sacraments if you remarry sans Annulment and Annulment is never guaranteed.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> You're leaving out the multiple affairs she had, now going out all the time drinking to all hours, the fighting, yelling, verbal abuse. But clearly you read what you want to read.





knobcreek said:


> My family isn't toxic, my kids are all A students, have tons of friends, play sports, and very well adjusted. My wife hasn't cheated in about 11 years (I think), and it was all centered around one long separation period. Not excusing her behavior, but she hasn't cheated on me after we fully reconciled over a decade ago.


You are saying currently your W goes out drinking all hours, followed up by fighting and verbal abuse (per the first post above) but then you say your family isn't toxic  Just b/c your kids are doing well on the surface doesn't mean they aren't being affected by this behavior.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/302434-issues-my-marriage.html




knobcreek said:


> I have had issues in my marriage in the past, for the most part it's good but I always get this vibe from my wife that she feels she's a martyr for keeping the marriage together and she could've done better. She openly flirts with men in front of me, I don't bring it up but I think she realizes it. She's even had a friend stop speaking to her for flirting with her ex-husband (they're co-parenting and always together, even vacation together it's odd so she took real offense...).
> 
> When she's socializing with other people she's friendly, fun, and great. When at home with me and the family she's miserable, acts like a martyr all the time and I'm just kinda done.  She's pretty, we've got history, and kids, but I can't take the martyr routine anymore. If you feel you can do better have at it, I'll find someone happy to have me is where I'm at right now.
> 
> I'm at the point where I'm 38, I can do no more to help this marriage, and should I just move on and find someone who will appreciate me? My wife is a beautiful woman and I'm thinking this factors into the issues we're having.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

There is no part time father, co-parenting is very popular these days where children are raised by both parents and they share equal time.

We married young and both wanted a big family, but her actions over the years has hindered that. For two years we separated over her affairs and subsequent abortions. We also had a child die at one day old and she's had miscarriages (largely from the stress of the death). Then it was put on hiatus so she can go back to school, now she just doesn't want to deal with young children, so the goal post has shifted according to her plan and timing. All our kids are like 5 years apart too, which is annoying, the age difference dictates that they won't be very close growing up or in adulthood.

Even with the issues in my marriage I was willing to stick it out, but without the hope of more kids I don't see the point. I'm not ready at 38 to just look forward to being a grandpa.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I have some experience with the Annulment process.
> 
> The Church teaches that a valid marriage cannot be dissolved. The Annulment process is designed to look at the marriage and determine validity. The Church looks at knowledge and intention at the time of the wedding to make that determination. The Church also looks at actions after the wedding as evidence of knowledge and intention.
> 
> ...


We have very different experiences then with the annulment process. through the Catholic Church if you request it and stand your ground you will get it no matter how obsurd the reason you request it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/302434-issues-my-marriage.html


This is telling. Seems like you have a lot of problems in your marriage. Best not to have kids with the relationship in its current status.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I just can't actually fathom being this callous. I mean, maybe you don't intend the sound that way but wow. She had a child die and had multiple miscarriages and the attitude about it is so blase. 

Again, how many children did you discuss having? And at what age were you willing to recognize that a 40 year old or older woman can not safely continue to have children so you still have toddlers at home when you are 50. That's not realistic or safe.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

knobcreek said:


> ...
> . * We also had a child die at one day old and she's had miscarriages (largely from the stress of the death). *
> .


um...This might be part of why she doesn't want more children. When was the last time you experienced a miscarriage physically? Since you're male, I'm going to say never. 

Look, Men and women have their differences in many areas. Pregnancy is one area that you guys just have ZERO clue about (women have the same lack of experience about the high levels of T that men have). Pregnancy wrecks havoc on your body. The more kids you have, the higher the risk of complications. The older you are, the higher the risk of complications. 

After birthing a child and having it die a day later, an emotional toll takes over. How do you even know she ever recovered from that? Top that off with miscarriage*S*? How many? 

Look, my H wanted more kids too. After our third son was born, I had my tubes tied. I was NOT having any more. If he wanted more, he was going to have to leave me. His job has him gone about 50-70% of the time. *I* cared for them by myself all of that time. No family, no friends around, nothing. Me...alone. So, no I didn't want any more. That was my reasoning. If I had to do it alone, I got to decide how many we had. So, he agreed and I had the surgery. Would he have wanted at least one more to try for a girl? Sure. I might have too...but I couldn't have 4 kids by myself the next time he left. I knew I couldn't do it mentally. 

Splitting time with your kids WILL make you a part time parent. I don't care if co-parenting has them one week at your house and one week at hers...it's PART TIME. So, what you're saying is that you will take your kids PART TIME in order to reproduce again with someone else, who might also not want a brood of children. The world is over populated as it is. Why not enjoy what you have right now? 

But after reading your other thread, I am going to go ahead and say, in this case, it might be better for the kids if you two split. Don't have any more children, that's not going to help anything. Your marriage is so toxic (her affairs, you being unhappy in general), I would watch out for your kids. Just because they are children doesn't mean they are unaware of your relationship with their mother. Unhappy people have a hard time pretending to be happy for a long time.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> I just can't actually fathom being this callous. I mean, maybe you don't intend the sound that way but wow. She had a child die and had multiple miscarriages and the attitude about it is so blase.
> 
> Again, how many children did you discuss having? And at what age were you willing to recognize that a 40 year old or older woman can not safely continue to have children so you still have toddlers at home when you are 50. That's not realistic or safe.


She's only 34, she isn't 40, I'm 38.

I had a child die too not just her, the miscarriages may be due to the abortions she had during her affairs (behind my back, didn't want to have those kids, wanted to be free to do what she wanted). 

I guess the point is I want more kids, she doesn't so that's the crux of the issue. Women insist it's solely their choice, but it's also my choice to find another woman who wants kids right? I don't think that's callous, it's just acknowledging a very large incompatibility in our marriage. Has anyone else dealt with this? Then there's the issue where I'm not sexually attracted to her while she's on an IUD to make her infertile which isn't helping things at all in the marriage.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Okay .. but the point still stands. At 34, your wife cannot continue to have children for the next 12 years so you don't have an empty nest until retirement at 60 or 65. She'd have to have the last kid at possibly 43 to make that happen.

No woman anywhere near your age can safely make that happen. Anything past 35 is an increasing gamble.

And if you aren't attracted to her now because she's not actively fertile, what happens after menopause? Are you simply only interested in sex with her if it might lead to pregnancy?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

knobcreek said:


> For 20 years I've been the martyr and "did the right thing" and was completely taken for granted. The IUD is just the latest in a LONG line of what I would consider mental abuse by this woman.
> 
> I want more kids, my wife says no, even the Catholic Church would give you an annulment over this. I'm only 38 and I don't want to be childless in my early 50's.
> 
> ...


So your wife can do all of this but her not wanting any more kids is your breaking point? Oooookkkkaaaayyy.

Word of advice. Get a divorce. And if she or anyone asks why, give any one of those issues as a reason except the kid thing. Which honestly just sounds like a seriously lame justification to end a marriage. But all the other stuff? Sounds like you should have pulled the plug after the first kid.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm somewhat sympathetic in that my ex and I agreed on two before we got married and after one she didn't really want another. I had to push pretty hard to get my second child and felt pretty betrayed as this was one of the important conversations we had had early on. Having said that, it does sound like you both have been through a lot and life does have away of messing with our plans. I'm wondering if you might be able to let go of the genetics and adopt a child/children? The love will be there all the same.

As for the possibility of divorce your best case is probably a 50/50 time split with the kids you do have. Are you ready to give up half or more of your children's childhood? In my case the ex destroyed our marriage, but that is nothing compared to stealing away half of my experience as a parent.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes, dump her, get a new wife, and have more children. This is clearly what you want. 

Do what you wish, it is your life after all.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> There is no part time father, co-parenting is very popular these days where children are raised by both parents and they share equal time.
> 
> We married young and both wanted a big family, *but her actions over the years has hindered that. For two years we separated over her affairs and subsequent abortions. *We also had a child die at one day old and she's had miscarriages (largely from the stress of the death). Then it was put on hiatus so she can go back to school, now she just doesn't want to deal with young children, so the goal post has shifted according to her plan and timing. All our kids are like 5 years apart too, which is annoying, the age difference dictates that they won't be very close growing up or in adulthood.
> 
> Even with the issues in my marriage I was willing to stick it out, but without the hope of more kids I don't see the point. I'm not ready at 38 to just look forward to being a grandpa.


What I highlighted may be grounds for annulment. If you do decide to divorce and are interested in Annulment, I'd take that info and any evidence you may have of it and head to your parish priest and/or Procurator-Advocate. If they don't think you have a shot, talk to a Canon Lawyer.



Wolf1974 said:


> We have very different experiences then with the annulment process. through the Catholic Church if you request it and stand your ground you will get it no matter how obsurd the reason you request it.


This is simply untrue. Unless you personally read and reviewed each Annulment case you've heard of, you have no idea under which grounds the Annulment was granted or what testimony and evidence was given that speaks to those grounds.

To simplify it, the Church speaks of the "goods of marriage". These "goods" are necessary for a marriage to be valid. 1) Permanence. Both parties must understand and believe that marriage cannot be dissolved by man and is for life. 2. Fidelity. Both parties must understand and believe that marriage is monogamous. 3) Fecundity. "Open to life". Both parties must understand and believe that marriage is for the production and rearing of offspring. Any one of these things not understood or believed by one or both parties can invalidate a marriage.

So can fraud and coercion, being intoxicated, being mentally ill, etc.

The Church teaches that a marriage is made valid at the time of the ceremony. Marriages are presumed valid unless/until they are investigated for validity after a divorce. If one or both parties has some defect in consent, understanding, and/or mental ability to carry out the vows, the marriage could later be found invalid.

When I filed for my Decree of Nullity, I acted as my own Procurator-Advocate and Canon Lawyer. I actually applied under multiple grounds. 

First was fecundity. I, myself, intended against having children with my exH. Unfortunately, I got pregnant during the marriage due to a condom failure. Because I gave birth to the child, I demonstrated that even though I intended to be closed to life, I was not closed to life in practice. So, that ground was removed.

My other grounds involved permanence and fidelity. 

Permanence: My exH and I were both raised by people who had been divorced and in families that had multiple divorces. We both believed that marriage could be dissolved by the court and that it was not a permanent state. Therefore, we didn't consent to a lifelong union, which is what marriage is as taught by the Church.

Fidelity: Both my exH and I were seeing other people before and during the marriage. I know I did not intend to be faithful and I don't think he did, either, going by his actions. Again, by excluding fidelity before and after the ceremony, we clearly weren't consenting to marriage as taught by the Church.

Thankfully, I had enough evidence in the form of Witness testimony and documents to corroborate my testimony to the satisfaction of the Church.

If I were OP and I divorced and then sought Annulment, I'd go with her affairs as primary grounds and use the abortions and refusal to have more children as secondary grounds or as corroborating evidence that she was incapable of understanding and/or fulfilling the obligations of marriage.

All of this is moot, of course, if OP has no interest in the Sacraments should he divorce. If he has fallen away, he could always remarry in a civil ceremony and become Lutheran or something as many Catholics who have divorced have done.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> Okay .. but the point still stands. At 34, your wife cannot continue to have children for the next 12 years so you don't have an empty nest until retirement at 60 or 65. She'd have to have the last kid at possibly 43 to make that happen.
> 
> No woman anywhere near your age can safely make that happen. Anything past 35 is an increasing gamble.


This is an over generalization. I had all my children (4) after the age of 35. Last one at 43. Only problem was pre-term labor because I started so late: my uterus didn't want to stretch with my oldest child. Each pregnancy was easier, and each birth was easier. Our children are all fine.

I'm 56 and have 3 children still living at home, youngest is 13. It is nice. They keep me young. I'm a lot more fit than most of my children's friend's moms who are close to my age.

I think OP is just hurt that his wife doesn't want any more children _with him_. She could, and probably would, change her tune if she were married to a new man.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> What I highlighted may be grounds for annulment. If you do decide to divorce and are interested in Annulment, I'd take that info and any evidence you may have of it and head to your parish priest and/or Procurator-Advocate. If they don't think you have a shot, talk to a Canon Lawyer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Umm I lived it. And in my case it was granted without cause, I fought it because I don't believe that something should be annulled that existed. But my X wanted to get remarried so it was granted. It was soon after this I left the catholic faith. Since I am no unicorn that means if it happend to me it happens to others I stand by my statement. Not saying it happens in all cases but mine and others have happend.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I think OP is just hurt that his wife doesn't want any more children with him. She could, and probably would, change her tune if she were married to a new man.


Where's the evidence that she'd suddenly want more children with another man?

I mean ... she got pregnant by another man and aborted, so ...


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

That's another thing....She cheated and got pregnant a couple of times and aborted, but you're mad she doesn't want more kids? I think there are way bigger issues here.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Umm I lived it. And in my case it was granted without cause, I fought it because I don't believe that something should be annulled that existed. But my X wanted to get remarried so it was granted. It was soon after this I left the catholic faith. Since I am no unicorn that means if it happend to me it happens to others I stand by my statement. Not saying it happens in all cases but mine and others have happend.


Gently, because I know the hurt this causes, what you cannot now is your ex wife's state of mind and thought process when she married you. Remember, only one spouse needs to have some defect of consent, understanding, and/or ability for a marriage to be invalid. Only she and God know what was in her heart and head at the time. It's not uncommon for someone to marry without expressing their differing beliefs or doubts to their intended.

I actually talked to my closest friend about divorcing my ex the day of the ceremony. Not in jest, but in all seriousness. My ex never knew about that. But I did tell the Church. From my ex's point of view, I could see how he may think the annulment was granted "for no reason" other than "she (me in this case) wanted to remarry".



Starstarfish said:


> Where's the evidence that she'd suddenly want more children with another man?
> 
> I mean ... she got pregnant by another man and aborted, so ...


Aborting the OM's child while married =/= aborting the child of a lover while married to him or even while single. She very well may want more children with someone else under her own terms and conditions.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Not sure the abortions were the OM's, we had sex during this time too and I wasn't wearing protection, supposedly they were but I have my doubts. It could've been, it could not have been. According to her she simply didn't want to be married or be a mother even to the son we already had. Either way that was about 13 years ago or so, not like it was 6 months ago so I'm not sure how much that factors into this, especially since she had three more children with me (one died of acites).

I come from a big family, she does too, we agreed to a big family and to cut off children at 30 I think is breaking the contract we went into. I thought she would come around, but she's not, and frankly I'm just not done with kids at my age.

As for not having the energy to chase after a kid in my fifties, I run marathons and I'm in better shape then guys half my age so that's not a problem.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm sensing remaining hurt from her betrayals. Good chance that she had the abortions because she knew they were from a man that didn't want kids with her. 

You've reconciled but here she is going out acting like she's some single woman. Who wants a wife who jumps at every chance to go out drinking and being a party girl when she has a 4 year old at home. That doesn't sound like what you wanted to end up with when you decided to R with an adulteress. 

Funny how women can be. You're the father of her 3 kids, you took her back after she wh0red around for 2 year but years later she's not interested in having more kids with you. The sad thing is, if you divorced her she'd probably rush out and have a kid with a new guy.

I actually think if she wasn't out and about but was a family focused wife you'd be happy with the size of your family. I doubt that more children will bring you the happiness you desire. Could you imagine how you'd feel if after having a child she looking for more GNO. You at home with toddler while she's out drunkenly dancing with strange men. No the problem is not the size of your family it's that your wife is not into you.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> _*Gently, because I know the hurt this causes, what you cannot now is your ex wife's state of mind and thought process when she married you. Remember, only one spouse needs to have some defect of consent, understanding, and/or ability for a marriage to be invalid. Only she and God know what was in her heart and head at the time. It's not uncommon for someone to marry without expressing their differing beliefs or doubts to their intended.
> 
> I actually talked to my closest friend about divorcing my ex the day of the ceremony. Not in jest, but in all seriousness. My ex never knew about that. But I did tell the Church. From my ex's point of view, I could see how he may think the annulment was granted "for no reason" other than "she (me in this case) wanted to remarry".
> 
> ...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm not sure where all these assumptions she'll have more kids with someone else are coming from. There's literally zero evidence for that. Sometimes a woman just doesn't want more kids whether or not she previously thought she would or agreed to.

OP, if you are adamant about more kids, you'll need to leave your wife accept part time parenting of your current children. There is really no other solution. If guilting or tricking or "entrapping" men with children is wrong, it's equally wrong to do so to women. And perhaps that's why she went with BC that couldn't be sabatoged.

She agreed, she doesn't agree now for whatever reason. This relationship already has a lot of problems adding more kids even if you both agreed.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

knobcreek said:


> For two years we separated over her affairs and subsequent abortions. We also had a child die at one day old and she's had miscarriages (largely from the stress of the death). Then it was put on hiatus so she can go back to school, now she just doesn't want to deal with young children, so the goal post has shifted according to her plan and timing.


Sounds like the death of your chld and subsequent miscarriages are what made up her mind about not having more children. I would hope, as her husband, that you could be sensitive to that. 

Perhaps you could adopt. Have you suggested that? Would she be more open to having children, maybe slightly older children instead of young babies and toddlers? Maybe her problem is she cannot face going through another death or miscarriage, or the fear of it during an entire pregnancy.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

At the conclusion of your last post your marriage seemed in a better place. On this thread I read your comments that The her behavior has not changed (GNO). How is your marriage at this point, other then this issue? 

Also you discussed financial options in case of divorce. Have you developed a game plan?


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## Saph_ (Jun 7, 2016)

Wow, shocked to see so much judgement. 
Your wife seems to be a very selfish person who doesn't consider the wants/needs of anyone else besides herself. This is obvious due to her affairs and other behaviours that harm you and your children. 
The marriage obviously isn't healthy or happy, so I don't encourage you to have more kids with her.

However, I do encourage looking into what will make you happy. You've spent many years being harmed due to this woman that you have absolutely every right to explore and fantasize about what YOU want in life. It's never too late to achieve happiness.

It sounds like you definitely want more kids. I don't encourage having kids with HER though. If you divorced her, and found a woman that you are compatible and have a healthy and happy relationship with, then have the kids you want.
I don't know why you're being encouraged to stay miserable and in an unhealthy marriage. I'm not saying this because his wife doesn't want anymore kids, I'm saying this because she's had affairs and has bad behaviours that have harmed him and his children and now decides " no more kids! ". He shouldn't have to stay unhappy and live a life of misery. 

Compatibility is important in a marriage and it doesn't sound like you have that. I would NOT want to be with someone who only wanted one child for example while I wanted four. It makes no sense. Why should anyone sacrifice their wants and happiness? 

I'm only 21 and want a big family and I'm grateful that I have a partner who wants the same amount of kids I do. I wouldn't be impressed if he went on to have a vasectomy randomly without even discussing it with me. Of course it's her body and her choice but as her husband, he has a right to know and at least have an opinion? It's not just all about her anymore. Marriage isn't something where someone can just do what they want without answering to anyone. There's someone else you need to think about in your decision making. 

So anyway, I'm not saying go divorce her immediately. I am saying that I don't think you're crazy. I am saying that you should think about this. 
You have the power to create your future.
Close your eyes. Envision what your future will be like in say 5-10 years. What would make you happy? If seeing toddlers, babies and children running and playing with you, calling you dada and wobbly walking makes you smile, you know what you need to do. 

I encourage you to think about yourself and what you want. And no, your children won't feel disrespected. 
They would probably understand when they got older why you left. 

Anyways, just reminding you that your happiness matters too, you know.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

knobcreek said:


> There is no part time father, co-parenting is very popular these days where children are raised by both parents and they share equal time.


Wrong, co-parenting after divorce makes both parents part time parents. If your children spend 50% of their time with each of you,



knobcreek said:


> We married young and both wanted a big family, but her actions over the years has hindered that. For two years we separated over her affairs and subsequent abortions. We also had a child die at one day old and she's had miscarriages (largely from the stress of the death). Then it was put on hiatus so she can go back to school, now she just doesn't want to deal with young children, so the goal post has shifted according to her plan and timing. All our kids are like 5 years apart too, which is annoying, the age difference dictates that they won't be very close growing up or in adulthood.
> 
> Even with the issues in my marriage I was willing to stick it out, but without the hope of more kids I don't see the point. I'm not ready at 38 to just look forward to being a grandpa.


When it comes to carrying children, your wife has been through a lot. I don't think you realize how hard all of this can be on a woman... miscarriages and infant death.... you are lucky she's been able to have 3 children who lived. Your expectations are unreasonable and do not take into account how hard this has been on her and her body. 

If you want more babies, go find another woman. I get that marriage to her has been hard, but this issue of having more babies is separate from that. If you cannot respect that she has the right to decide how many pregnancies she can handle in her lifetime, then you do need to move on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Starstarfish said:


> Okay .. but the point still stands. At 34, your wife cannot continue to have children for the next 12 years so you don't have an empty nest until retirement at 60 or 65. She'd have to have the last kid at possibly 43 to make that happen.
> 
> *No woman anywhere near your age can safely make that happen. Anything past 35 is an increasing gamble.*
> 
> And if you aren't attracted to her now because she's not actively fertile, what happens after menopause? Are you simply only interested in sex with her if it might lead to pregnancy?


I agree with this. but continuously out of the mouths of TAMers we hear how its fine to delay childbirth into our late 30's.. everyone is doing it.. after all we need to be established in our careers....and everyone is marrying later ...there should be no rush..

I wanted a large family because I was an only child.. then we have some who came from a Large family who want to continue that tradition.... 

I find men like you knobcreek, very RARE.. most men are putting on the breaks, refuse , don't want more kids & the wives are devastated.... You sound like a good guy to me.. although I think you & your wife are *not* compatible ... this is so not a good idea to have more children with her.. I wonder if you are trying to fill a void ??... due to your marriage being in the state it is.. 

Sounds you had a vision of how you wanted it all to play out.. both of you talked of a larger family.... but things didn't go as planned, her cheating, abortions, etc...which can profoundly change the course of things running harmoniously -even if you have the financial means to support a larger family... so here you are trying to hold on to that vision somehow... you are reaching middle age.. this could be your "mid life crisis" brewing... not everyone wants the Red sports car to show off..


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