# Over 22 years and the marriage is dead



## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I've been married for 22 years, most of which has been unhappy. Very early on, my husband always seemed to find things to do instead of helping me with the children, house, and so on. It's always seemed as though he didn't even begin to know how to be a father or a husband; and that he didn't want to know. His abilities began when he left for work, and ended when he came home. Plus, I stayed at home with the kids while he went to work, just to have him throw a fit on me if I spent any of "his" money. His interrogation of me..,"what did you buy that for? You didn't need that, did you? You're going to pay me back for that, aren't you?" Until four years ago I couldn't take it anymore and got a job. Then less than a year ago, one evening he threatened to cancel full coverage on my car if I didn't give him the money for it. That was the straw that broke the camel's back! Through years of feeling ignored, neglected, and used, and feeling like I wasn't worth one dime to him, my love has dwindled, and finally died. I can't stand the thought of sexual contact with him (haven't done anything in months, and I'm glad)! We have no friendship, I don't love him, and don't even like him. We've tried counseling with a couple of our Pastor's, but nothing came of it. For over two decades I've never been able to discuss things to try to resolve them because he's literally acted as if I wasn't there, like he didn't hear a thing. 
I have not a single good feeling toward him, no respect at all. All that's left is disdain and a non-existent relationship. I don't want marriage advice from people who've been married less than two decades. Heck, I guess I don't want marriage advice at all. The respect and love just isn't coming back. I just want to know if there's anyone whose been where I am (no, not if you've been married only a few years). You've been married for a very long time, and your marriage is dead, loveless, and sexless. What did you do? I despise him. I'm not trying to work things out anymore. Don't start telling me what I need to be doing to fix things. I'm living in reality. I tried so very hard for so very long. He isn't worth that kind of wasted energy. So have you been there? If so, what did you do?


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

Hi. I am a man and have been married for over 20 years. My marriage now is very sad, without intimacy, but it was not always that way. Your post makes it seem that you have never been happy in your marriage. Has your husband never done anything to make you feel he cares about your happiness?

I assume you have told him how you feel. He must know about your unhappiness. If so, he will know that you want a divorce.
I all honesty, if you can find nothing good about your marriage, past or present, I do not see how anything can be done and you should consider divorce as you are thinking now.

But, before you do that, you need to consider individual counseling to see if your anger and frustration is blocking out some feelings that may allow you to save your marriage. I think the best thing for you to do is to seek individual counseling right now. Good luck to you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been married 34 years. And sorry I did. 

Don't waste your life on a man who expects to use you.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I had anger and resentment for years. I'm past that. Now I feel complacent.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You only get one life. Is this what your parents wanted?


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Married 24 years. Yeah i was there for a time in a very bad place. I worked on fixing it.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Meson, did you work it out? Did you get your love back? I personally don't want it back.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Divorce him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

You entered into a lifelong marriage contract. As such you are obligated for life. Stay married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

Lynst,

Financial issues in a marriage are tough. But going it solo when you have very little work experience can be tough too. How old are your kids now? Are any still living at home? If the money issues were solved (ie you pulled in enough income to get him off your back), would the marriage be salvageable for you? Do you currently have a skilled job or are you working min wage? 

It may be a good time to plan how to make yourself self-sufficient for your own peace of mind, then tackle the state of your marriage.

-M


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Hi L, I'm posting because my spouse and I have been married for 30 years. 

Your post shows that you are in a lot of pain right now. I know you only want the pain to go away, but know that dumping your spouse of 22 years is not going to be a golden ticket to happiness. 

I agree that seeing a therapist (individual, not marriage) would help you figure out what you really want out of life, and why you are not happy. You are searching for something. Despite how it looks to you now, your unhappiness is not all H's fault. Best wishes.

Does divorce make people happy?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's easy for you guys to say you bought it, you keep it. Unless what you 'bought' is an abusive relationship. That is a sham and unfair to expect the abused spouse to have to stay just because she made a vow.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I've felt and thought it all! Hurt, anger, resentment, hopelessness, despair, hate. I've been through the times of verbally saying I want a divorce. Been out of control emotionally, said things I shouldn't say, and I decided I didn't want to be that person anymore. The things that have caused the rift that have caused the respect and love to diminush and die, they aren't important anymore. If they were I'd still be hurt and angry. I've grown past that. But when I let go of the hurt, I stopped loving him. It didn't happen over night, and there was a time when I wished it wasn't so. I wished and tried so hard. There were times when I was so depressed that it may have been affecting my health. The chest pains and sore muscles in my chest from the grief I went through. I talked with him for years. I can honestly say that I have done all that I can do to work things out and resolve things with him. His actions now will not undo the 20+ years. Years and years I would go behind a closed door to talk to him and he wouldnt even look my way, would keep his face in his book, like I wasn't there and never said a word. I've been talking to him, and I'd turn around to see he'd left the room and I was talking to no one. Problems are on thing...yes, they hurt and are upsetting. But the severe pain, the pain that has brought me to where I am, is that my pleadings with him never phased him. He ignored me one too many times.

So all I see is a man whose disregarded the things he knew hurt me. A man who has chosen money over me. A man whose distanced himself from his wife and his children because of his awkwardness, so that the children even tell me they don't want to go places or do things with him.

So here is the reality. I do not love or want to love him. I do not want his affection, and will refuse and reject it. How can people stay married and live this way? Divorce is not God's way, but neither is this!


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

lynst said:


> Meson, did you work it out? Did you get your love back? I personally don't want it back.


Yes, it was worked out over a few years of effort. If you really don't want it back then you are done. You need to let him know...


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

turnera said:


> It's easy for you guys to say you bought it, you keep it. Unless what you 'bought' is an abusive relationship. That is a sham and unfair to expect the abused spouse to have to stay just because she made a vow.


I didn't say "you bought it, you keep it", but I still would like to reply to your comment. (although I did say D would not be a golden ticket to happiness)

It always pains me that we only hear one partners side of the story here. Except for extremely rare cases, both partners always played a roll in the breakdown of the M. This is even more true in the long term M's. I'd like to hear why L's H has checked out.

If we could go back in time, 5 years, 10 years, etc. and ask people who want out about their spouse and M, I guarantee they did not feel then as they now say they did. Our present perception colors how we see everything, even history. When we're fed up and want to be done, we HAVE TO justify our wanting out by focusing only on the bad, and rewriting the past. It's a coping mechanism to help us with our present decisions. (and left behind spouses do this too)

So for 22 years it all sucked? Sorry, but I don't believe it. VERY few people would stick around for that long in a sucky M. First D's average around 7-8 years. Lynst, your M made it way past that... likely for a good reason.

But I'm not posting this to convince you of anything, Lynst. You basically came here to say you're done, and are looking for validation for this decision. Nothing wrong with that. 

Lynst, I'm truly sorry for the all the pain you are going through right now, and wish you and your family the peace and love you deserve. I hope you can find it.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

"Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Matthew 19:6


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

Lynst, only you can tell when done is done. I am not religious, I do not view things at the same angle you do. That being said, I grew up roman catholic, I understand what you are going through. 

If there is even a small spark left, after 22 years, that is something. If you can work on it, that's great. If you are done, you are done. It can be a hard garden to hoe being single; even more so if you can't support yourself financially. But it is your life; it is your decision to make. A lot of us here have been there, done that. A lot of us are still figuring out how to recover from similiar items. Know that you aren't alone, we care, but also realize we try to focus on (and focus you on) moving past the pain and healing... even when you may not be ready to emerge from the pain yet.

-M


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

My marriage has lasted so long because we are Christians, and divorce is an absolute no-no because of our beliefs. When you believe against something so strongly, it takes years of problems, hurt, and anger to get to where divorce doesn't look like such a bad idea. As for how long things have "sucked," it has been many, many years. Starting when our first child was born, he made me feel ignored, neglected, and used because of how he thought everything with the kids and home was all my job. He not only expected me to be a stay at home mom, but to raise the kids while he was a bystander. And for 20+ years, it's like he isn't part of the family. He does his thing while me and the kids do our thing. He won't even go to their ball games. The youngest now is 12, and they tell me they'd rather not do things or go places with him because he is no fun. Basically, it's unusual and awkward to them because he hasn't been a part for so long.

This marriage has never been about "we." We've never been a team, have built no friendship, and no, it hasn't come to this. It's always been this way. He's never said he was sorry, never been there for me, and it has chipped and chipped away. 

Does divorce sound good to me? No, not at all. Would divorce mean that I win? Living the way we live with the dead marriage we have isn't winning. And divorce isn't winning. Either one is losing! I feel like my marriage is lost either way. A marriage with no love, respect, and affection isn't marriage anymore than getting a divorce. They're both a pathetic, dead relationship. 

Has he tried? Maybe, but he doesn't change. Like an alcoholic trying to quit drinking! Quitting drinking doesn't take trying, it takes changing! Have I tried? Have I worked on changing myself? Harder than you can imagine! But it takes two! 

Things have went they way they've went that the damage is done. The love is gone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Men often won't change until they see the woman giving up and leaving. And then they say 'I never saw it coming!'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wilderness, are you the husband or the wife?


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

The spark isn't there. It is not a good place to be when you're glad when your husband isn't home. Glad when he leaves to go somewhere. Glad when he doesn't speak to you. Glad when he doesn't touch you. Just being anywhere he is not is when I feel content. When he speaks to me, it affects me much like when a person scratches a blackboard. I'm so glad when he's done saying what he has to say so I don't have to hear his voice. The way I view and feel about him is no way any woman should view her husband. So I stay married living with a man I despise. How is that a marriage? I feel like we're already "put away" from each other in every way except moving out and making it legal (divorced).


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Lynst, I know that you are in tremendous pain. Please know that you won't always feel this way. You will get through this and be happy again.

Take care of yourself during this difficult time. Eat, exercise, and sleep properly. Do something nice for yourself. Take a hot bath, go to a spa, see some friends. Breath deep. Focus on the positive things in your life. You can do this.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

It is abuse when a husband for weeks, months, and years continues to say to his wife, "what did you buy that for? You didn't need that, did you? You're going to pay me back for that, aren't you?" Unless a woman has been theough that herself, you cannot imagine the pain it causes. I wouldn't wish it on any woman!! There's not a woman on earth who wouldn't go away feeling, "he loves money, but he doesn't love me." (And no, I wasn't wasting money. No, we didn't need it to pay the bills. And, yes, I'm very frugal with spending.)

Pleading with him, and trying to resolve this problem for two decades. Doing my best to stay calm, and speak to him in a reasonable way. Picture this, going in the bedroom before bed, while the H is still reading a book, and trying to discuss things with him, and the whole time, he keeps his face in the book like I'm not there, not saying a word. And he continued to do those painful things, knowing full well how they made me feel, like he never heard a thing!

Then last year (2013) at the end of March, the kids and I visited my sister on spring break. A few days after we got home, we (with my husband) were in the car on the way to church. All of a sudden he says, "I never saw the rest of that money for the insurance on your car." I said, "I thought I gave it to you." He said, "I never saw the it." I stayed very quiet, but the anger and bad thoughts were going through my mind because of his demanding tone, and my knowledge he thought I "owed" him money. I was thinking thoughts you don't want to know, but also thinking, "God help me not to say anything." After a few moments, he rudely said, "well, I can just cancel full coverage on your car!" 

Oh my God!! 20+ years of marriage and he thinks it's his and not ours! I buy his clothes, buy the kids clothes, and make sure to have money to pay for fun activities. Never once have I thought he should pay me back! Never once have I treated him this way! Have I been perfect? No. But if he thinks I don't respect him...if he thinks I don't love hime, he's right! This nonsense of his wife having to pay him back, and owing him money is abuse and nothing less! For over two decades I have put up with this, but it has affected me. It has changed me. It has killed the emotional intimacy (that a woman needs to feel connected), made me feel used, and I feel like sexual intimacy is wrong and strange. I feel no emotional connection, and, therefore can't have a physical one. 

I'm not trying to "get even" or punish him. But I know this is not the way things should be, and yet they are. I tried so hard. I even verbally told him that "I can honestly say I've done everything in my power to work things out. Can you say that?" And he didn't answer, because we both know he hasn't.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

I’m sorry Wilderness. I know you consider yourself an ally for marriage, and think you are helping, but you are not. 

You can’t (successfully) guilt someone into staying in a M.

Are you even reading Lynst’s words? She is DONE, DONE, DONE. She is also in great pain because she never wanted to end her marriage. It doesn’t matter if you or anyone else thinks she hasn’t tried everything, or isn’t being reasonable. Her reality IS reality, and arguing with it is not going to change her mind at this point.

I admit I did a bit of “trying to convince” with my earlier comments about perception and re-writing of history. For this I apologize Ms Lynst.

Because of where she’s at, the only chance this M has is if her H wakes up and makes a complete 180, and pronto. Reconciling won’t be easy, but then neither is D.

Start making your plan to leave, Lynst. Write a letter to H explaining exactly how you feel, and that you’re on your way out. His response will guide your next move. 

Whatever you do, please take good care of yourself.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Well, Wilderness, it is apparent that you have never been through what I've been through. Tell me, if someone held your hand over a flame, would it hurt?! Oh, and if it did hurt, would the pain be your fault or the flame's fault? When one person's actions cause the other person to feel pain, it is the person committing the action who is at fault. Much like being burned, the pain is not the fault of the person being burned (pained), but the flame which causes the pain. We have no control over the pain we feel. 

He has told me (in writing) that he doesn't want to do things the cause me to be hurt. He waited for over 22 years to even say that. But he has done horribly at showing it. Don't tell me you care. SHOW me you care. Oh, and since we are in a busines relationship where my spending of "his" money requires me to be in debt to him, and owe him back, well, he owes me a ton of money for cooking his meals, doing his laundry, giving birth to his children, and so on! Wilderness, even his own mother knows these things and has told me she knows it is wrong! 

It is not only wrong, but it isn't even normal! My pastor even has told him during counseling that it has to stop!


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

So it's fine and dandy to rail on your wife over every single dollar spent on anything but groceries?! :scratchhead:

I know all kinds of women, pastor's wife and others, who'd tell me and has told me to love my husband, and forgive him. I've done that so many times. But it never changed the pain. The past can be forgiven. When it's past, it's past. It isn't what he's done, but who he is. Who he's always been, and will be. 

Even a woman whose been beaten by her husband can forgive him if he stops. She can't forgive and love and stay with him if he doesn't stop. If she does, she is only hurting herself. But sometimes women who've been abused start hating and stop loving her husband. Then even if he does stop the abuse, the love is still gone because the damage is done. Sometimes change comes when it is too little too late.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

He's "innocent" as long as he hasn't hit me, I suppose. It really doesn't matter so long as he gets his way, all the while ignoring my opinions and feelings on the matter. If all the counseling we've received that has confirmed my beliefs, that have stated directly that he is wrong on this matter, and that he Needs to change. Well, I guess the counselors are wrongfully accusing him too!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lynst, try to ignore wilderness. He is a very angry and bitter man and does nothing but invade people's threads to accuse them of all sorts of things. I have reported him and I HOPE the ban in permanent this time!

Start stashing visa gift cards, you can get them at the grocery story. Once you accumulate a couple hundred worth, go see a lawyer to find out what documentation you need and how to protect your half of the marital assets.

Your husband sounds like an absolute selfish SOB who completely deserves to be alone the rest of his life.

Having said that, lots of times the spouse doesn't clue in that you mean business until you start packing your bags.

Write your list of what you want, not a list of what you don't want. It has to be a positive actionable list.

I want to be able to spend OUR money up to a certain amount without having to justify it to you
I want to be taken out to dinner where we dress up X number of times per year.
I want to have my contributions to our life acknowledged and appreciated and this is what that would look like.....

This is the kind of thing a man can understand and follow.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Do what you have to do, don't let anyone guilt you. They don't know your pain, they don't live your life.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

So tell me, how can one spouse "owe" the other spouse money if whats mine is "ours," and what's his is "ours?" This was going on for 16 years, long before I ever had a job! I don't owe him one thing! Never have, and never will. The fact that he has always thought I should pay him back is just evidence that he thinks it's his, and not ours. That isn't a marriage, it's a prison!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

lynst said:


> So tell me, how can one spouse "owe" the other spouse money if whats mine is "ours," and what's his is "ours?" This was going on for 16 years, long before I ever had a job! I don't owe him one thing! Never have, and never will. The fact that he has always thought I should pay him back is just evidence that he thinks it's his, and not ours. That isn't a marriage, it's a prison!


You're right, it's not a marriage!

I've been married for 29 years. Our second Christmas together I had just had a baby and wasn't bringing in a pay check. I handed my H his Christmas present and he said, "what I pay for here?" I got up and walked away. Shoulda a pulled down my pants and showed him the scars of bringing his child into the world! Stupid bastard! He learned...oh yes he learned!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

lynst said:


> So tell me, how can one spouse "owe" the other spouse money if whats mine is "ours," and what's his is "ours?" This was going on for 16 years, long before I ever had a job! I don't owe him one thing! Never have, and never will. The fact that he has always thought I should pay him back is just evidence that he thinks it's his, and not ours. That isn't a marriage, it's a prison!


Most laws will back you up. Unless you live in a country that favors men, but I'm assuming you don't?


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Hi Anon, for years I begged him to give me money (before I worked.) Anyway, he ignored me for way too long. I don't really have a list of things I want from him. (I wanted things for so very long, and told it to his indifferent ear so many times. It caused me nothing but pain.) I'm done with that. Like I said, I've changed. I used to be the one who took the initiative to be a loving wife, and try to resolve things with him. I'm not that person anymore. I am more content, maybe not happy, but I feel more complete and self-confident by not being anything but a man and woman living in the same house, having the same kids. I spend time with them. I focus on the things the kids and I enjoy. I am not interested in having him do anything but keep his distance from me. Things are better this way. I know it's not the way things should be; but sadly this is the state we're in. It's the result of years and years of painful actions and his continual turning of a deaf ear.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

So what do you want then?


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Well, it's not what I want. I just wonder how or should people stay married like this? Or how could we? Divorce definitely seems inevitable.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I could write a list of my ideal husband. (No, not an unattainable list of perfection.)


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

5 Things I want in a husband:

#1. Looks at me and listens when I talk to him, a friend. (Sometimes we women just want someone to talk to who actually cares about hearing what we have to say!)

#2. Verbally tells me he loves me often 

#3. Helps me around the house (more than just mowing the grass six months out of the year.)

#4. Is part of the family. (Shows interest in the kids instead of being a bystander by going to the kids' games, talking to them, telling them he loves them, spending time with them). 

#5. I'd be okay if I simply had the first four!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Well now that's a good start. But what about your relationship? What changes do you ant there?


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Does H have any clue as to how close you are to ending the M?


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## vanessa365 (Aug 17, 2012)

L, 
After so many years, why are you now waking up?
What has changed? 
If there is a factor that has triggered this, please let us know.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I think I've realized that the damage is irreparable because it has been more than a couple years we have struggled with intimacy in our relationship. The fact that he's showed no interest in paying attention to me outside the bedroom has caused me to feel disattached from him emotionally. The only way a woman can feel close is to connect mentally (emotionally). The connection I need isn't there so it has changed me. I cringe at the thought of him trying to touch me. This has been an issue for probably 5+ years. My dreading going to bed. First it was several weeks that would go by. Then a few months. Now it's been like 6 months. This is no way for married people to live; and yet I don't want to be intimate with him. Next thing you know it'll be years. I'll probably move out of the bedroom entirely after my oldest daughter moves out. 

He has never talked to me on an intimate level. That is, his "dialogue" is only stating facts, talking about the weather, etc. I have tested him. I'll start talking to him about the bills that are due or the weather, and he will talk. Then I'll ease into talking about a personal subject and complete silence. For example, maybe I'll ask him why he never goes to the kids' ballgames, and he never answers. The cat gets his tongue every time!

No emotional intimacy for a woman will cause the physical intimacy to dwindle and die. At least, it has in my case.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, asking a man 'why' he 'never' does something is very unlikely to get him to open up, as that is an accusation, and men's #2 need is usually to be admired. Just sayin'. You'd have better luck easing into something like 'so what did you want to be when you grew up, back when you were a kid?'


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have to tell him he must change. MC?


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

It's amazing that we women are the problem when we can't talk to our husband's because of his lack of a response!


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

He won't change. He's been told to in counseling; and it has had no affect on him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think what Turnera meant was that getting such a man to talk needs a bit of finesse and putting him on the spot by asking why he doesn't attend his kids games is not exactly a conversation opener. Perhaps you could say something like, "Johnny has a game this Friday and I know it would mean so much to him if you attended...what's your schedule look like?"

It sounds like you have years of very dysfunctional communication patterns that absolutely need work. Not just you, but your H also.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lynst said:


> It's amazing that we women are the problem when we can't talk to our husband's because of his lack of a response!


Just saying that, in the future, in your future relationships, approaching a man and saying why don't you ever isn't going to get the response you want. Does that make sense?

Doesn't change my opinion of your husband.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, I agree. We are very dysfunctional. I have tried talking to him in various ways. It's extremely hard to learn how to never speak offensively to a man whose so easily offended. I'm just not that talented; but it's not been because of my lack of trying. So, no, maybe I haven't always spoken to him with a perfect tone, and every word just the way it should be said! But talking to him is not a good idea anyway. He just isn't a listener or communicator at all. Maybe that's just all men; but I don't want to be the woman who thinks "all men are alike."


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