# The sex and intimacy disconnect....



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Men read, women read.... 
It has some religious undertone (just a warning for those who don't like that type of thing) but it hits the nail on the head regarding mens needs for sex and women's need for emotional intimacy... 
http://www.forgingbonds.org/files_images/general/Four Needs Chapt 1 PDF.pdf


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It's good, can you get your husband to read it?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> It's good, can you get your husband to read it?


I don't know but it's worth a shot.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Great refresher, many thx. :iagree::iagree:


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Totally agree. Men spell intimacy SEX and women spell intimacy TALK.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

"Men spell intimacy S E X and women spell intimacy as T A L K"


The problem of emotional disconnect has far deeper causes, mostly about the lack of interest to participate as equal partners in a relationship. 

Talk vs sex is a symptom, not the cause.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There is an active post by a man who is unhappy about sexual frequency. He describes a beautiful setting. He and his wife are sitting in the garden that he installed. 

They are enjoying drinks and she expresses her admiration and appreciation of his hard work. He purposely says almost nothing. Why? Because he is doing the MAP. 

He thought that she was avoiding the "elephant in the room" to use his words. She may just have been trying illicit some sincere voluntary communication with him as a way to establish a feeling of intimacy. 

He wanted to get to the point, their sexual problems. She may very well have been talking about his needs. She may have been working her way slowly towards intimacy.. 

The point is that if he really listened to her and was able to sincerely talk about the details of the garden she may have felt closer to him. He could have parlayed the discussion into a wam communication about what he was thinking when he selected the planting. 

Sounds mundane but it was important to her for her husband to enjoy talking to her. But he was not able to give an inch because she seemed not to be talking about what was important to him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

considering the rather transparent means used to accomplish above, is there any point in trying t improve things by giving her more of what she wants while being certain that nothing will come out of it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

"How does that make you feel?" Good sex to follow? I think not.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

This is why I say wives are the sexual gatekeepers and husbands are the emotional gatekeepers. Wives that have a PA open that gate to others. Men who have an EA open that gate.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If men talked more with their women and sometimes just listened without trying to solve their problems, I'm sure that would go a long way.

Now if women had a lot more sex with their men, not as much talking, I'm sure that would go a long way as well.

It's 50 / 50. Men listen and talk more and women are in the mood much more, the way its supposed to be.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

For some women, everything has to be talked about and eventually fault has to be attributed in the case of undesired outcomes, the guilty punished, the works.

It is all about validation of course, and I can't help but wonder if excessive or constant validation does not lead one to the infallibility point, where they feel like the universe is all for their pleasure and all that.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Thanks


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> Totally agree. Men spell intimacy SEX and women spell intimacy TALK.


This might be easier to remember if men didn't spend so much time teaching women that sex is meaningless to them. I hear men brag all the time about their 'conquests', and talk about women as though they are nothing but notches to be collected on a bedpost. 

Maybe y'all flip a switch when you get married, I dunno, but men do seem make a point of saying that they do not equate sex with emotion or caring. Even married men spend a goodly amount of time dissing their wives.

I think women would be more inclined to spell intimacy S E X if they felt that they could actually trust that sex would lead to it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I don't think so, Tim.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: The sex and intimacy disconnect....*



always_alone said:


> This might be easier to remember if men didn't spend so much time teaching women that sex is meaningless to them. I hear men brag all the time about their 'conquests', and talk about women as though they are nothing but notches to be collected on a bedpost.
> 
> Maybe y'all flip a switch when you get married, I dunno, but men do seem make a point of saying that they do not equate sex with emotion or caring. Even married men spend a goodly amount of time dissing their wives.


You and I keep the company of very different men.
Have never in my life heard a married adult male declare anything remotely close to what you hear men 'brag about all the time'.

I don't know any man who does not equate sexual intimacy as an expression of love.

I think you have your paradigms mixed up.

There is a world of difference between a husband who loves his wife and a college frat boy cruising for a piece of ass.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I think you have your paradigms mixed up.
> 
> There is a world of difference between a husband who loves his wife and a college frat boy cruising for a piece of ass.


I'd so like to believe you, but then I wonder why

-so many married women are complaining that their H is selfish in bed, doesn't attend to her pleasure, and makes her feel like a *****
-so many married men still frequent strip clubs and use porn, and just generally continue to seek out utterly meaningless sexual titillation devoid of intimacy
- so many married and LTR types still have plenty of time and energy to lust after other women, and often make this abundantly clear to their wives and gfs
--so many seem capable of hiring escorts or having affairs, and then just coming up with a line like "it was just sex; really it's you I love."

Ummm, yeah. Right.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

john117 said:


> Am I reading this the right way? Do women control (or shut) the gates in year M+25 because of perceived or even actual behavior at year M-5? Or because of the way young men (and women) act today or are portrayed in the media today?
> 
> I don't think so, Tim.


I don't know your story, so I can't really comment. It does seem odd that this would come up after 25 years married, and not a lot sooner. But the types of behaviour I'm referring to are not just those of young men pre-marriage. 

I understand that some of you really do love your wives in impossible and incredibly giving ways. It's lovely to see that it can exist. But at the same time, being here on TAM has mostly just reinforced my cynicism about love and intimacy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I don't know your story, so I can't really comment. It does seem odd that this would come up after 25 years married, and not a lot sooner. But the types of behaviour I'm referring to are not just those of young men pre-marriage.





always_alone said:


> I understand that some of you really do love your wives in impossible and incredibly giving ways. It's lovely to see that it can exist. But at the same time, being here on TAM has mostly just reinforced my cynicism about love and intimacy.


I mean this day and age, at what percentage could a man love his wife in this fashion? What percentage of women want to carry their weight in such a situation and make their husbands life blessed vs the ones looking to get over? For most of us on TAM, loving your significant other in this fashion is a sure way to be cheated on.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I'd so like to believe you, but then I wonder why
> 
> -so many married women are complaining that their H is selfish in bed, doesn't attend to her pleasure, and makes her feel like a *****
> -so many married men still frequent strip clubs and use porn, and just generally continue to seek out utterly meaningless sexual titillation devoid of intimacy
> ...


Just heard from a guy last nite, saying that married women are cheating in droves. One has a man who makes sure all the bills and savings are paid, occasionally he works out of town. The wife in this situation befriended him because she knew he wouldn't fall in love with her, to D her down while her husband is out of town. The sexual relationship carries on until some close quarters and the woman figures out she can't do it anymore. Doesn't want to mess up what she has. Anyhow, a year later the husband and the guy unbeknownst end up on the same bowling team. Imagine that?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Let's not confuse the behavior of part of the population with the behavior of an individual... Or set our expectations of an individual based on a sample, and a bad one at that, of the population.

Also, let's not condemn behavior that is perfectly accepted in other, more sexually enlightened parts of the world but is found deviant here... (ogling - or appreciating as the natives have it - a fine female or male form is quite the norm in many places in Europe)

If you really want to see stereotyping in action watch Lifetime Movie Network... Yet the women watching it can generally separate media and stereotypes from reality.

Thing is, plenty of sex wars going on in stable marriages or LTR's where the men do not act like losers, ex maniacs, or Lifetime Movie Network male characters, only because women can't be bothered with such messy wetwork more than a few times a year. 

And, of course, when men "succumb" to the temptation of commenting on Susan Sarandon, JayLo, or any other purveyor of curves, they are instantly characterized as perverts.

Here is a hint. LD like many other issues may have its roots in the prudish behavior of Americans... Some of us hyphenated Americans that have spent decades on both sides of the pond and have seen less, ehem, prude societies are quite aware of what the sexual landscape looks like across the Atlantic. Here in the Midwestern US at least, it looks a lot less, ehem, enlightened.

Bottom line, treat your white knight well because the next one may be the real thing, not the Lifetime Movie Network version.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

always_alone said:


> This might be easier to remember if men didn't spend so much time teaching women that sex is meaningless to them. I hear men brag all the time about their 'conquests', and talk about women as though they are nothing but notches to be collected on a bedpost.
> 
> Maybe y'all flip a switch when you get married, I dunno, but men do seem make a point of saying that they do not equate sex with emotion or caring. Even married men spend a goodly amount of time dissing their wives.
> 
> I think women would be more inclined to spell intimacy S E X if they felt that they could actually trust that sex would lead to it.


I can only speak for me, but I have only had one sex partner in my life. We first made love when I was 16 and there has never been anyone else for 41 years. 

I finally had a chance to read the entire article and, althought it may not fit everyone, generally speaking men forget that women need to feel emotionally intimate before desiring sex (again, generally speaking). This has certainly been true with us. The years that I was a total A-hole and treated her like crap were the leanest years sexually for us. Even today when we grow apart and become distant, even if the reason is that we are busy and don't get to spend time together, I can feel the intimacy level decrease. 

I also had to learn what she needed to feel intimate, i.e. her love language. 

Men, all of this can certainly be accomplished while still maintaining a good alpha/beta mix. Alpha does not mean treating someone badly. Also, this can be such a vicious circle. I don't get sex, I get grumpy, I treat her badly, she withdraws emotionally, I don't get sex... Someone has to man up and break the cycle and if your wife is like mine, her DNA is built to respond. So I take the lead, and she responds...and how sweet it is!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

At what point in the behavior / reward curve do you punt?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Deejo said:


> You and I keep the company of very different men.
> Have never in my life heard a married adult male declare anything remotely close to what you hear men 'brag about all the time'.
> 
> I don't know any man who does not equate sexual intimacy as an expression of love.
> ...


Some men never leave the college frat boy cruising for a piece of ass mindset.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

john117 said:


> At what point in the behavior / reward curve do you punt? Is it worth to put up exemplary behavior for a month only to be rewarded once, with absolutely no potential for improvement just because "people don't have sex every day" (well, maybe in Farawaystan)


How about someone who respects you, knows your a human being, where the sex thing is as important to them as it is to you. You know, would have sex almost every day, even if they have a busy career or kids, would do 5 minute quickies so you guys can sleep easier or to get a sex session in. Who knows your not going to always be ontop of your image, and still looks at you and desires you the same way. They exist somewhere.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

treyvion said:


> How about someone who respects you, knows your a human being, where the sex thing is as important to them as it is to you. You know, would have sex almost every day, even if they have a busy career or kids, would do 5 minute quickies so you guys can sleep easier or to get a sex session in. Who knows your not going to always be ontop of your image, and still looks at you and desires you the same way. They exist somewhere.


Hell, Faithful Wife has a T-shirt that says "My Husband is a Sex God!"

Oh yes, they exist. There are a number of outstanding husbands and wives that participate on this site.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Looks familiar, maybe I should get this book


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

john117 said:


> At what point in the behavior / reward curve do you punt? Is it worth to put up exemplary behavior for a month only to be rewarded once, with absolutely no potential for improvement just because "people don't have sex every day" (well, maybe in Farawaystan)


First of all, marriage is about compromise. I would like sex every day. My wife is ok with once a week. We compromise at 3 or 4.

But that is beside the point. You "put up exemplary behavior" because that is what emotionally healthy people do. It is not to get rewarded with sex. Emotionally people treat others with kindness and respect. They know how to disagree without being disagreeable. They know how to be assertive without being an a-hole. The result may be a more intimate home with more sex.

True that only works when both people are seeking to be emotionally healthy. You can work on your stuff and become a better person. If the other person refuses to do what it takes in his or her own life to become healthy there may come a point that you have to "punt" and find someone who will.

I am extremely blessed, especially given the circumstances of our getting married, to have a wife who cares about being emotionally healthy and a wife who tries to meet my needs as hard as I try to meet hers.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Hell, Faithful Wife has a T-shirt that says "My Husband is a Sex God!"
> 
> Oh yes, they exist. There are a number of outstanding husbands and wives that participate on this site.


Love it. "Outstanding husbands and wives"...


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

oops its not a book, guess I need to work on this, I have always been a quiet person. Hard for me to open up.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> You "put up exemplary behavior" because that is what emotionally healthy people do. It is not to get rewarded with sex. Emotionally people treat others with kindness and respect. They know how to disagree without being disagreeable. They know how to be assertive without being an a-hole. The result may be a more intimate home with more sex.
> 
> True that only works when both people are seeking to be emotionally healthy.


On the other hand, insanity is repeating the same behavior time after time and expecting different results.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> women need to feel emotionally intimate before desiring sex (again, generally speaking). This has certainly been true with us. The years that I was a total A-hole and treated her like crap were the leanest years sexually for us.


I guess my point was that women can feel emotionally intimate FROM sex as well, but not if their partner is acting like a total A-hole or is seemingly treating her as just there for his own pleasure.

I think some guys do this without even knowing that they are.

(And yes, I do recognize that women are just as capable of being A-holes, but I think the dynamic is usually different than the sex versus talk paths to intimacy in the OP.)


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