# withholding sex



## blkcpl4u2c (Jan 26, 2012)

does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Its sort of like being a hooker or an escort. If you get paid, you have sex with them. If you don't get paid, you don't. You're just using the barter system rather than currency.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It helps send the kids of divorce lawyers to college. It also helps anyone who might be eager to hook up with your husband or wife. I don't believe it's likely to do anything beneficial for a marriage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Why would you *not* want to get laid as much as you can?

I mean why cut off your nose to spite your face?

I guess if you were getting laid by someone other then your spouse I imagine it would *be* a punishment to your spouse, but if you are not getting it some were else, then isn't it a punishment for the both of you?

With that said I know it's a bad thing all the way around....especially if you are getting it some were else.


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## anonymous388 (Feb 23, 2015)

it will most likely hurt the situation


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I really can't think of a situation where withholding sex helps, and leaving wouldn't help more.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Its sort of like being a hooker or an escort. If you get paid, you have sex with them. If you don't get paid, you don't. You're just using the barter system rather than currency.


The above is absolutely spot on.
Whats that film with Robert Redford and Demi Moore?.....when he tries to 'buy' her. She says she isnt a prostitute but says she would do anything for the right price.
He says 'so, we have established that you are a prostitute we're just negotiating the price now'....or something similar.

If I was in a sexual relationship with my wife and she tried rewarding me with or punishing me by witholding sex, I'd say forget it. Either you want sex with me or you don't. No haggling.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Depends on the situation.

If your husband acts like an ass and treats you like crap, he should cozy up with his right hand.

If he failed to load the dishwasher, withholding sex is over kill.

If he forgot your birthday, your anniversary and Valentine's Day, husband meet your right hand and the couch.

No spouse is entitled to sex, yet no spouse should live with a lousy lazy partner..


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

It would hurt. Withholding sex as punishment? are we children


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What is going on that you are considering withholding sex to punish your wife?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* Marital sex is preeminently preordained for the purpose of further bonding that loving couple together!

Granted that there are some very legitimate reasons as to why sex should be withheld inclusive of certain medical conditions, a temporary misunderstanding or argument that leaves the two of you feeling far less than close, the occasional needs of your young kids, or the overt/covert presence or suspicion thereof of any preadulterous or adulterous activity on the part of a spouse. And I am quite sure that there are many, many more that I have left unincluded!

But to use sex as some form of economic barter or control, more especially against a spouse, only relegates us to becoming prostitutes of our own accord, much rather than the marital partners that we should be; thereby placating to our economic desires, much rather than those that loving sex so provides us with, that should be helpful in the preeminent solidification of that ongoing, loving, so very special relationship with our spouse!

Just why on God's green earth would we choose to ever jeopardize and lay waste to that?*


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I never have the thought process that Mr Giro is slacking in chores so I'm going to cut off sex. I have however been so hurt by him that just looking at him makes me sad or angry. At times like that we won't be having sex until we have resolved our issue. I'm just not capable of being intimate when there is emotional strife.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you're upset or angry, then that's a reason to not have sex. For a short time. But to withhold for a lengthy time as retribution may invite reprisals and escalation - which is not good. Solve your issues in a more healthy manner.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


hurts, mostly. The only time I would recommend withholding is something like a severe medical condition (the person is in the hospital) or they have an unrepentant affair.

Sex isn't just the result of a good relationship it can also enable a good relationship. By unilaterally deciding when sex is off the table you have just cut the knees out from your spouse's care to want to get better. It's a downward spiral from there.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Denying your husband (or indeed wife) sex because he/she didn't empty the dishwasher is simply childish.

If you have reached the stage where you are looking for excuses not to have sex then you are already in a vicious downward circle.

Rewarding with sex is almost the same 'Darling...if you put up that curtain rail there's a bj in it for you...'....the curtain rail would be up in a flash! A man will do anything for a bj! 

BUT....he will eventually think; 'hey, hang on...what next? 'Darling...see that Mercedes 350SLK in the showroom window?...I'll even swallow'....In effect you are paying your wife for sexual favours....isn't there another profession where you have to pay for sexual favours..?????? 
Just wondering....


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't see anything wrong with sex as a reward. If my H promised a full body massage as a reward for some chore...I'd be all over that!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Depends on the situation.
> 
> If your husband acts like an ass and treats you like crap, he should cozy up with his right hand.
> 
> ...


Anon, I submit in those above situations, you're not withhold sex for punishment. Their actions have just put you in anything but the "right" mood.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


That would be like withholding fuel for your car because your spouse forgot to pay the gas card. Have fun walking, alone.
You're only hurting yourself AND your spouse.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Anon, I submit in those above situations, you're not withhold sex for punishment. Their actions have just put you in anything but the "right" mood.



True, but the husband who acts like an ass may not see it was his behavior that made her vagina go on lock down. He sees it as withholding. 

*except men of TAM who are far more enlightened than the average man.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I can't imagine withdolding sex can ever help, only label you as a refuser, although many women use it a form of "power" to get what they want. In reality it only makes the stiuation worse, from fixable to more toward unfixable.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

How often does "punishing" your partner help any situation? Punishing your spouse implies that they're misbehaving and you're in a position to judge their actions (or inactions).

Maybe they're legitimately acting like an ass. Communicate that to them, repeatedly if necessary. If that doesn't change things, take steps to insure your happiness--but going out of your way to punish them kind of makes you an ass as well.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Would cutting off their water and electricity, locking them out of the house, taking away their food, denying them medical care, be appropriate punishments for a spouse who has dared to displease you? "Spouse" is a partnership role, not a superior/subordinate role. It isn't the place for one spouse to punish the other by any means or for any reason. Before engaging in power games, it'd be a great idea to make sure you actually do control all forms of power.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> Depends on the situation.
> 
> If your husband acts like an ass and treats you like crap, he should cozy up with his right hand.
> 
> ...


What came to mind as I read that was "If my wife failed to unlead the dishwasher, no problem. If she forgot my birthday, anniversary, etc... she'd get a slap."

NOTE: I don't advocate violence of any sort!

But since a sexual relationship is so important in a marriage do we really want grades of acceptability for withholding sex? We don't accept grades of acceptability for violence in a relationship, do we???


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?



I married Mrs.CuddleBug because I love her and not just sexually but mentally too.

If I with held emotional closeness she needs as punishment, that's very cruel to her and it hurts her. I am her husband and I don't with hold emotional closeness with her.

Now does she with hold sex from me because she's grumpy or mad about something? Yes.

Does this make our marriage stronger and closer, getting through those tough times? Not at all and it makes situations much worse than they really are.

I do the majority of the chores inside and all the chores outside. Mrs.CuddleBug doesn't have much to do on her days off work.


When you get married, you are not your own anymore. That means your body is now your spouses and vise versa. You are to take care of each others needs as your own. With holding sex as punishment is cruel and not loving or what a marriage is all about. With holding sex is controlling and manipulative.

With hold sex too often and he or she may just relieve themselves with toys and even have an affair. At that point, the with holding sex backfires and its pointless.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

As a punishment? I can't see any good results from that.
Of course there are times you just won't want to do it for a good reason, but that's not a good reason in my opinion.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> What came to mind as I read that was "If my wife failed to unlead the dishwasher, no problem. If she forgot my birthday, anniversary, etc... she'd get a slap."
> 
> NOTE: I don't advocate violence of any sort!
> 
> But since a sexual relationship is so important in a marriage do we really want grades of acceptability for withholding sex? We don't accept grades of acceptability for violence in a relationship, do we???


If you'r not an a$$ and don't treat your wife like crap why would you care?

You should rephrase it to "if my wife forgot my birthday I might not be so interested in giving her that full body run I know she wants". And you'd be within your rights to feel that way about someone who thinks so little of you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> What came to mind as I read that was "If my wife failed to unlead the dishwasher, no problem. If she forgot my birthday, anniversary, etc... she'd get a slap."
> 
> NOTE: I don't advocate violence of any sort!
> 
> But since a sexual relationship is so important in a marriage do we really want grades of acceptability for withholding sex? We don't accept grades of acceptability for violence in a relationship, do we???


Of course there are acceptable levels of violence. If my wife were about to be struck by a car, I'd shove her out of the path. If she were drowning and in her panic, fighting my efforts to save her, I'd knock her out. If the house were on fire and she wouldn't wake up, I'd probably shake her or slap her. Violence is a tool and like all tools, it has it's place. I would never use violence to frighten her, demean her, or hurt her. 
By the same token, there might be times when withholding sex is appropriate and absolutely necessary. If your partner was seriously ill and the doc said sexual activity might kill her, but she approached you for sex, anyway, wouldn't you turn her down? As a rule, I wouldn't turn my wife down for sex but even I can imagine times where it would be appropriate and necessary to do so.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP. If you are to the point where your thought process is viewing sex as a weapon or tool to punish, your marriage is already far gone down a road that should not have been explored.

Counseling soon or it will probably be quits for your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


HURT!!!!!!!

One of the things that I really like about David Schnarch is that he often points out that married couples usually don't have communication problems. Their problem is that they often communicate too well.

Specifically, if you are trying to hurt, punish, or be mean to your spouse, they will know that. They will look at you and know that you are not a very nice person. 

It took me a long time to grow to the point that when my wife did bad things to me emotionally, I would no longer take the bait and get sucked into a fight with her. 

Once I did and once I could calmly ask her why did you just do that, she lost so much power over me. I can now require us to conduct a mature conversation rather than having an emontional conversation. 

If you love your spouse, you love them. You should not be into punishing them. You are not their parent, you are their partner.

Good luck to you.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't see anything wrong with sex as a reward. If my H promised a full body massage as a reward for some chore...I'd be all over that!


My wife has multiple times asked me to give her a body massage. Sometimes when she is working I'll rub her shoulders, neck and back, then she'll ask if she can lay down and I can do her whole body--but nothing sexual. 

We've been on vacation where she has requested a body massage, nude but didn't want sex after. I've foolishly did it a few times hoping that a really awesome massage would change her mind and it didn't, she still refused me. She doesn't get massages anymore.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

committed_guy said:


> hurts, mostly. The only time I would recommend withholding is something like a severe medical condition (the person is in the hospital) or they have an unrepentant affair.
> 
> Sex isn't just the result of a good relationship it can also enable a good relationship. By unilaterally deciding when sex is off the table you have just cut the knees out from your spouse's care to want to get better. It's a downward spiral from there.


I had to comment on this. I spent years asking for sex, spent many nights crying myself to sleep on the couch because I felt like such a loser. Then I crawled out of a prescription induced haze and thought my problem was sex. I came here applied what I learned, yet still had to beg for sex. When I finally slapped him upside the head, sex was ok, until he *****ed that I wouldn't initiate then when I did he said no. It was the last time. I told him that I didn't see me initiating sex again. So did I cut him off at the knees?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> No spouse is entitled to sex...


I suppose that applies to everyone in the world...except my spouse and me?

Since we made it crystal clear long_ before_ marriage that sex was an entitlement for both of us within marriage. It's one of the tenants upon which our marriage is built. Either one of us chronically, willfully refusing is putting the marriage in jeopardy of ending. Baring any kind of unforeseen illness that makes all manner of sexual activity impossible, or mutually agreed upon abstinence for whatever purpose, we both are absolutely entitled to sex. It is not a gift to be given, a market place bartering tool, and is expected no matter what state our marriage is in.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

committed_guy said:


> My wife has multiple times asked me to give her a body massage. Sometimes when she is working I'll rub her shoulders, neck and back, then she'll ask if she can lay down and I can do her whole body--but nothing sexual.
> 
> We've been on vacation where she has requested a body massage, nude but didn't want sex after. I've foolishly did it a few times hoping that a really awesome massage would change her mind and it didn't, she still refused me. She doesn't get massages anymore.


Judging from your comments I'm concluding that your sex life is is less than positive. When you get my age, and most of your life is in the rear view mirror, and can never be recovered, you're going to realize that living those years with a woman/spouse that doesn't desire you was one of the biggest mistakes you made. As least you stopped her from dangling a carrot in front of you.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Tango said:


> I had to comment on this. I spent years asking for sex, spent many nights crying myself to sleep on the couch because I felt like such a loser. Then I crawled out of a prescription induced haze and thought my problem was sex. I came here applied what I learned, yet still had to beg for sex. When I finally slapped him upside the head, sex was ok, until he *****ed that I wouldn't initiate then when I did he said no. It was the last time. I told him that I didn't see me initiating sex again. So did I cut him off at the knees?


If I understand you correctly, you not initiating is not the same thing as refusal. 

I do the same thing as you do. My wife has refused me so many times and for so long that I no longer try to initiate. If she initiates fine I'll do it but I don't make myself vulnerable to her refusal anymore.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


Wouldn't work with me unless the goal was to get divorced. People differ but to me if you need to play games to purposely hurt your spouse I wonder if the relationship is worth it anyway


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't see anything wrong with sex as a reward. If my H promised a full body massage as a reward for some chore...I'd be all over that!


My wife suspects I want sex when I offer her a full body (sensual) massage... and, though this might be seen as boasting, I'm pretty good at that ...


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Would this amount to violence too?

"If my wife forgot my birthday, then I'd make sure she didn't climax, I came before her, and simply left her in a state of frustration"

It does sound mean!



lifeistooshort said:


> If you'r not an a$$ and don't treat your wife like crap why would you care?
> 
> You should rephrase it to "if my wife forgot my birthday I might not be so interested in giving her that full body run I know she wants". And you'd be within your rights to feel that way about someone who thinks so little of you.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

IMO there are valid reasons for not having sex with your spouse. 

If your spouse is a selfish lover and after communicating with them they still don't change.

If your spouse isn't meeting any of your other needs and you've cooked and cleaned for them all day while they sat on their butt watching tv, you might not be feeling very sexual towards them.

Sometimes you can feel like sex is just one more thing you're being used for and every time you do it, you hate it more and more.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And when the last paragraph is used 100% regardless of reality, then what?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Depends on the situation.
> 
> *If your husband acts like an ass and treats you like crap, he should cozy up with his right hand.*
> 
> ...




Anon - I agree with what you say (highlighted). But there are also many men out 'here' who DO treat their wifes well, acts like a prince charming, loads the dishwasher AND empties it, remembers all the important dates and who is a generally good egg....and all he wants from his wife is loving sex a couple of times a week yet she simply isn't interested. For her its a chore.

Women who have that attitude don't deserve husbands like.....???.....me or indeed many others on TAM. 
And yet we still get given a hard time when we have 'improper' thoughts about other women.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

john117 said:


> And when the last paragraph is used 100% regardless of reality, then what?


You mean this?
_Sometimes you can feel like sex is just one more thing you're being used for and every time you do it, you hate it more and more.
_

IMO this kind of feeling means there's either something wrong with the relationship and/or with the sex. Another possibility is previous sexual trauma.

One spouse's reality is not always the same as the others. I think some people have trouble with that word "feel"

I "feel" like I'm not loved. You (well, H ) could think well, you are. That's just silly. To you, the facts - I am loved- are true. To me the _feeling _- I don't feel loved - also true. 2 realities, 2 truths.

You seem like a fact over feeling guy, John. Like my H. It just confuses him. "Well, just don't feel that way then" is a typical answer for him.

I needed for him to understand my "whys" and not just defend himself that he does, he is, he doesn't, to whatever my feeling is at the time.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If there's a rational basis behind the feelings I'm all ears. 

If there's no clear picture behind the feelings but a desire to figure it out, I'm also all ears.

But if feelings are a convenient to get out of things then I'm outta here 

Remember it's my job to tease rational facts out of feelings. But I'm dealing with what a car dealer in the 1980's Detroit called "the b!tch that walks into the show room wielding her copy of Consumer Reports, mind all made up" then feelings are irrelevant.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You mean this?
> _Sometimes you can feel like sex is just one more thing you're being used for and every time you do it, you hate it more and more.
> _
> 
> ...


Feelings are a choice you make; a product of the meaning, perceptions, and interpretations of circumstances as the arise and as they have occurred in the past. They themselves are not "true" nor are they immutable. 

You should not be expecting him to understand the "whys" of your feelings. YOU need to understand the whys and test them against reality. Your partner doesn't live in the fantasy in your head. You ned to talk with him about facts and expectations.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

blkcpl4u2c said:


> does withholding sex from your spouse as punishment help or hurt the situation?


Hurt.

As someone who many many times heard "that's it, no sex for you" from a now XW who was just looking for any reason to avoid sex, and "if you do X you might get lucky" which of course never happened despite X being done, I can assure you that you will hurt both the situation and your relationship.

The level of resentment that those two attitudes caused mean that either of them is now an instant walk-away dealbreaker for me, along with the silent treatment of course. 

Sex is part of a loving relationship and not something to be controlled or offered in reward by just one partner.

Obviously I take all the previous points about when one partner is ill, angry or otherwise put off. Sex isn't going to happen then but that is not the same as it being withheld as punishment.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

What is the difference between a wife saying; 'if you load the dishwasher you might get lucky....'
...and a prostitute saying; 'give me $50 and I'll suck your d!ck'..??

None.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

askari said:


> What is the difference between a wife saying; 'if you load the dishwasher you might get lucky....'
> ...and a prostitute saying; 'give me $50 and I'll suck your d!ck'..??
> 
> None.


Using John's analysis of Evil or Ignornant/unable...

A wife is saying she will "give sex" when she feels you have also given enough.

Or...

A wife is saying that her love language is household help and she "feels" unloved because the husband doesn't help enough around the house.

The prostitute only requires payment to spread her legs for you. No feelings have entered the picture at all.

Askari, I haven't seen a thread in which a spouse who has a chronic denying partner is ever given a hard time for admitting he/she fantasizes about sex with someone who might make them feel loved. You and several other members who have clearly done the work yet continue in sexless marriages are urged to divorce rather than cheat or suffer. You and john have declared a divorce will happen at a certain point in the future and have consequently detached from your wives. John has taken up cycling in order to be ready to Wow his future sex partners once his daughters have completed the post grad degrees. You are biding your time until your kids are out of school as well. You both have stopped trying and no one faults either of you.

But I do think the right thing to do is to inform your spouses that divorce is on the horizon because you're not feeling loved in any meaningful way. I do think you owe that honesty to your wives. They should understand that night after night you've grown less and less in love and that you will not be with them once the milestones have been reached. I think remaining silent as you bide your time is dishonest, sneaky, and intentionally hurtful because you are allowing your wives to think something is true that you know is false: that whatever is or isn't happening in the relationship is something you have learned to live with and accepted. You know this to be false yet you're allowing your wives to think its true.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Alas, my cycling life now rivals my sex life :rofl:. I had enough near death experiences cycling with one good and one bad eye that I parked the bike. Ironically it's not a problem while driving but cycling is much more demanding... The bad eye will be fixed June 3.


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## Mandalore (May 19, 2015)

askari said:


> What is the difference between a wife saying; 'if you load the dishwasher you might get lucky....'
> ...and a prostitute saying; 'give me $50 and I'll suck your d!ck'..??
> 
> None.


Actually the prostitute will actually do it for the 50 meanwhile your wife merely said 'it might happen' so there is a difference. One is a guarantee and the other is bs because when has a might or a maybe ever actually happened? Rarely. 

But all jokes aside in answer to the main question; its a damaging thing in a relationship besides pain and etc reasons mentioned earlier. Utilizing sex or any sexual favors in a barter or monetary system within a marriage or relationship is inherently wrong. You shouldn't want someone who's only going to do something for a potential bj anyways. . . 

Btw I'm new so do we believe in equality on TAM? If so I pose this question if a woman is offended or hurt by something why is she not the one on the couch. Unless she paid for the bed or something I mean.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> But I do think the right thing to do is to inform your spouses that divorce is on the horizon because you're not feeling loved in any meaningful way. I do think you owe that honesty to your wives. They should understand that night after night you've grown less and less in love and that you will not be with them once the milestones have been reached. I think remaining silent as you bide your time is dishonest, sneaky, and intentionally hurtful because you are allowing your wives to think something is true that you know is false: that whatever is or isn't happening in the relationship is something you have learned to live with and accepted. You know this to be false yet you're allowing your wives to think its true.


I disagree, partly from a moral perspective but primarily from a practical perspective.

Morally, should I tell a partner who habitually ignores my sexual need that I've had enough and I will be filing for divorce in the next few days? I don't think it's required. And I don't buy that refusing to complain futilely signals acceptance of the situation.

From a practical perspective, I absolutely should refuse to tip my hand. Giving my spouse a heads-up is a risky move that allows the STBX an opportunity to harm me (by squirrelling away money, or other means). Why in the heck would I want to expose myself to harm from somebody who I am going to file a lawsuit against?

Divorce is a lengthy process; there is plenty of time to convince your partner you are serious about saving the marriage. If I ever have to divorce again I will just file. Once I've executed the paperwork I will tell my spouse. At that point she will say "yes, I think that is best" or "I'd like a last chance to work on myself". If the latter, I will say "it will be at least two months before our court date. Show me something in that time which shows you are serious."


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Apparently there are a bunch of happily cuckolded men out there quite glad to be denied and humiliated. Maybe they are just turning a negative into a positive. There is a website for the cuckolded and they seem to be quite OK with it; like they belong to a club. The humiliation gets them off. 

I found it very tough to be in that position - to be cuckolded and then denied. The difference between me and them is that they get off on it. I was hurting big time these poor fools are into it. So I guess in their case it is helping their relationship. Cuckold Cuckoo Land.


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