# Deciding Whether to Stay



## EastCoastNative

Me: 38M
Her: 35F

Together 11 years, married 9 years, 2 kids ages 6 and 8

So two weeks ago I discovered my wife, who for context is a stay at home mom, having an affair. It's a long story that I might get up the effort to write out at some point, but it matches SO many of the stories I've read on here- stumbled on a strange text, picked at it, restored her whatsapp history and found texts from 2.5 years ago about meetups. There were even texts between them about how to hide it from me. Unfortunately I was only able to recover 3 months of texts so I'm missing the most important middle 2 years. She dribbled out some more facts but none groundbreaking- I had evidence of two meetups during that period in public parks outside, and she said there were 6 more. She also said that he texted her fantasies about him doing her, but she is adamant that she just ignored him (but still met up with him again after getting those texts). Her texts back to him in the first three months are like daggers through my heart and hard to read, mostly about how she wanted more after their meetups and how it's important that I don't find out.

If I had not caught it, it would have continued. Of course, my physical evidence and her light admissions only prove an EA, but I'm not an idiot so I'm sure it was physical too. I saw texts about them meeting up in the same town that he lives in, and it's a 40 minute drive away from us. And this was just in the first 3 months of their affair, there's no way it didn't progress past that. I haven't pushed too hard yet because right now, more truth isn't really going to change anything, but if I decide to stay I might want more truth. I haven't spoken to OM's wife yet as she's not in my circle and I don't know her, but if I decide to stay I'm going to want to talk to her and compare admissions (I don't even know if she knows yet).

I make a lot of money, high six figures and likely getting into 7 figures in the next 1-2 years, and I supported her fully in everything she's ever done- she dumps tens of thousands on house and furniture, does 1-2 fitness classes per day, etc. I've been a very good husband. Nobody is perfect- sometimes I work too much or come home too tired after a long day, but I've always done my best to try to "date" her on weekends, often with her being the one to say no and to stay in and watch netflix and go to bed.

This guy was her dance instructor who also teaches our kids to dance (she did weekday lessons with him too). I saw him every weekend when I dropped off our kids to him. This was a huge fight for us even when I didn't know they had something, mainly because I wanted to see the kids on the entire weekend and hated that they were doing nearly full day lessons on saturdays doing dance (that the kids didn't even want to do). He is married with a newborn and a 3 year old, so he's clearly an awful person too.

The last two weeks have been awful, to say the least. I'm in IC and I made her see an IC too. I'm not ready for MC because I'm not sure if I want to stay yet. I think I've made it through the depression, at least the worst of it, and I've started eating and sleeping again.

Other than all the awful above (and there is some more, but those are the primary details), and aside from the fact that I know she's still hiding stuff, she's been doing everything textbook perfect since it all came out. Cut off contact, huge apologies, actually looks miserable, etc. Sex before this was once per week and boring, and now it's the best of my life and daily.

However, I know for sure that it wouldn't have stopped if I didn't catch her. We've been married 9 years and she's been doing this for nearly a third of our marriage. She was a good wife the first ~6 years, but during the affair period she has also been an awful wife- always putting me last, ignoring me on birthdays, couldn't even keep up around the house so I hired a cleaning lady and often had to get my own dry cleaning etc. And the biggest issue is that she would ALWAYS put the kids first- never let us get a babysitter, would always book classes for them over my wishes to see them, etc.

Another crazy fact- her family lives in Russia and due the war, 6 months ago I opened my house to them, bought them a car, and am sponsoring them in their US citizenship application, all to save them from the war. None of this was enough for her to stop cheating. Her parents are wonderful people so I don't plan to do anything to torpedo their citizenship application even though I am so mad at the daughter they raised.

For the record, I've always been perfectly faithful to her, even breaking contact with female coworkers when it seemed they were getting too friendly.

Anyway, I'm mainly writing this because I KNOW that the right answer is to leave, but I'm weak and need help getting over the edge. Writing this down has been therapeutic in itself. I have been a doormat to her for the past ~3 years. I feel physically ill when I think about reconciling, but my depression, sadness, and anxiety evaporates when I think about leaving. Sure, there is some nervousness about the uncertainty of my new life- new apartment, how to coparent, etc. But that feels more like regular stress, which is what I deal with every day in my life at work, so it doesn't bring me down. I actually started looking into divorce last year when she was in the worst of it, but since I didn't know about the affair I decided that I would rather have a mediocre wife and happy kids so I sucked it up and dropped it. I did tell her about it, although not strongly enough- I said things like "what am I doing in this relationship if you're not going to support me" etc, and in the past two weeks I asked her what she thought when I said that and she said it made her mad at me, but she realizes now that she should have listened.

I'm also a little nervous about the first couple months post leaving- for a decade, she has been my everything. Every night and weekend has been spent with her. Right now, we're living in the same house and sort of dating, but I make it clear that I'm not sure yet whether we're breaking up or reconciling. My therapist made it clear that it's not a good idea to make decisions until I get back to healthy, but I feel like I'm approaching that soon as I've been able to eat and sleep for the past ~5-6 days and starting to get a clear head.

The only problem is the kids. I can say, with about 60%-70% confidence based on the way she's acted in the past 2 weeks, that this won't happen again. So I'm always going to have guilt for being the one to actually end it and ruin their lives, even though I know that it's her who did it. That's the only thing I'm stuck on.

Financially, I've already gotten her to agree to a post-nup if we try to work it out, but as I re-read everything I wrote, a straight divorce seems so much cleaner and ultimately better for my mental health.

No discrete question in here, but would love to hear feedback. Thanks all.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Sorry you're here, welcome to TAM. You know there are some tough times ahead but it sounds like you're preparing. Good for you. It's hard to find out about affairs. Keep steady.

There are a lot if good folks and sources here to share similar stories and support. It sounds like you're on the right track.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Sad to say but your wife has only told you about 0.001% of her affair. You deserve so much better. You said yourself if she wasn't found out they would still be carrying on. I'd divorce and find someone who doesn't share sex with others putting you at risk of std's. You should get tested if you haven't already. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married

There is only one answer for a cheater in my mind.


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## BigDaddyNY

Sorry you find yourself here for this reason. Odds are you only know a fraction of what went on. If they had the opportunity, which they did, then it was physical. Don't stick your head in the sand on that one.

If you think you can reconcile and stay together if it were just an EA, then I suggest a polygraph for her. You can quickly find out if it was physical and if it was the only time she has had an affair. I would also suggest a post nup that has her forgo spousal support in the event she is caught cheating in anyway, E or P.

Try not to make this a financial decision though. Your happiness and peace of mind are priceless.


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## EastCoastNative

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry you find yourself here for this reason. Odds are you only know a fraction of what went on. If they had the opportunity, which they did, then it was physical. Don't stick your head in the sand on that one.
> 
> If you think you can reconcile and stay together if it were just an EA, then I suggest a polygraph for her. You can quickly find out if it was physical and if it was the only time she has had an affair. I would also suggest a post nup that has her forgo spousal support in the event she is caught cheating in anyway, E or P.
> 
> Try not to make this a financial decision though. Your happiness and peace of mind are priceless.


Thanks, that's a great comment. I think it puts it into perspective as to why I don't really care to know the truth- the fact is, even if it were "just" an EA (not to downplay the hurt those cause on their own), seeing those messages about hiding it from me, and knowing that there were meetups and 2 years more messages that I haven't seen- I still wouldn't be comfortable staying.


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## Openminded

She’s putting in effort now because she’s been caught but that doesn’t mean she won’t cheat again. You have to decide whether it’s worth the risk to keep her. Many wouldn’t.


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## EastCoastNative

Update: spoke with a lawyer this afternoon, will have a deeper initial consultation tomorrow. It has instantly lifted me out of my anxiety and concern over the missing facts. 

Every 20 minutes I think about trying to get over it but it physically hurts even to think about it. Then when I turn to a life without her, it's like being in a storm but seeing sun on the horizon. Feels like it's just going to be a bit of pain for a while then finally that happiness that I haven't tasted in at least 3 years.

I just never wanted one of "those" marriages (of course, who does)- the one where the husband works 50+ hour weeks to provide an amazing life for the spouse and kids, and the spouse cheats with one of the fitness coaches. It had already turned into one that I didn't like, where the spouse treated me poorly, ignored me, spent insane money on useless things, etc. But I was willing to live with that; cheating was the line she couldn't cross and she did. 

I know this wasn't because I didn't give her enough attention because I definitely tried, a LOT. The one way I rationalize what happened is that the dance coach was a young ripped stud and also happened to be Russian like her; a bond that I could never give her. When I translate the texts between the two of them, she talked with him in a way that she never ever talked with me, even when we were dating. The cute, flirty messages just cut me to my core.

She has a masters degree but never worked; really dreading having to support her for the next however many years. I don't mind getting her on her feet for a couple years, and I assume I'll be paying for the house for at least the next 12 until the kids are 18, but thank goodness it's at a low mortgage rate thanks to the pandemic.


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## She'sStillGotIt

*


EastCoastNative said:



No discrete question in here, but would love to hear feedback. Thanks all.

Click to expand...

*Find your self respect, your pride, and your dignity and get the hell *out*.

You should definitely get the hell out BEFORE you start making 7 figures or you'll be paying her through your nose for the next umpteen years. And just so you know - most post-nups really don't hold up in court, especially when they're lopsided where one gets the lion's share and the other does not. So stop thinking you're financially "protected" from the lying cheater you married, because you're NOT. Stop being so foolish! Whether you like it or not, because she's STILL lying, that means she has absolutely zero remorse for YOUR pain. This is a woman who's only looking out for her meal ticket and has no problem lying to your face every single day in order to do it. She's a real catch you've got there.

Why on earth you're "too weak" to leave this woman boggles my mind. It's really not that hard to leave someone who couldn't even show you the same amount of respect that most of us show the common dung beetle.

Find your damned dignity, OP. Reach down deep and find it.


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## SunCMars

Your head is on straight, your life is above water.

Hers is not.

Hers head is on, crooked, it is unfairly situated,

You made a mistake in marrying her, she made no mistake in cheating on you. 

You are being used because you, kindly, and unwittingly, permitted this.

There is no good future to had with her, she used up all of that good will, all of that good fate.

You are yet young, at 38.

At your age, you have, more than enough time to start over with someone more loyal, someone more worthy.
Can I say more to your liking?

We only live once, don't waste another precious minute on a woman who values you, unfairly.

When all is said and done, try not to become bitter and angry.
People are selfish, often unkind, often treacherous.

I suspect being raised in Russia made her manipulative and selfish.

What made her entitled (I suspect) is her beauty, and her false sense of worth.
Her trainer can have her, her life style will then, henceforth, certainly suffer.

Show class, some empathy, but little mercy.

She needs that lesson learned.


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative ,

what she is doing is playing you and you are a fool - 
1- you should've never accept sex from her or even talked to her 

she was planning her life around the guy - think for a second, she took your kids away from you so they can meet him, imagine? may be she is waiting for the other guy to leave his wife, or may be waiting for her parents to get the paper then divorce you to be with the guy. 

if you have the a small tiny self respect you would leave - this will also teach your kids to be firm and not tolerate cheaters. 

she will cheat again, she will find someone else or continue behind your back. 

the only reason she is with you is for money - she like the fact that there is guy spend money her and another guy forking her, making love to her and date her. even train her kids and treat them like his own. isn't that enough to make you pause? do you think for a second if you stay with her that she will not do it down the road and waste your life and time that you could've spent with someone else who respect you and honor you?

the other guy not only was doing your wife but also sucking a hard working money you been making - she was providing for him her body and your money. does that make sense

yes, stop her parents paper works. and tell them because of their daughter who was cheating. 

and yes find the man's wife and tell her yourself. 

I also hope you are not still sending your kids to the dance lessons?

you will never be enough for her


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## Beach123

If you know you are weak then she knows it too.
Find a way to be strong! And hurry!


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## EastCoastNative

I appreciate all the comments. The only one I slightly disagree with is her parents- if I pull my support for their citizenship application, they can never be in the US again and will likely be jailed upon return to Russia for attempting to emigrate. I hate her right now, but I don't hate them. They are realistically going to raise my children during the week when she's busting her butt working a 9-5. They are making it a million times easier for me to leave because I know that my kids won't be going home to an empty house after school.

Agree with everything else though. I will say- for the first 5-6 years of marriage it felt perfect. Like a true, deep in-love marriage. I agree though now- it's not that anymore and will never be again.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> I appreciate all the comments. The only one I slightly disagree with is her parents- if I pull my support for their citizenship application, they can never be in the US again and will likely be jailed upon return to Russia for attempting to emigrate. I hate her right now, but I don't hate them. They are realistically going to raise my children during the week when she's busting her butt working a 9-5. They are making it a million times easier for me to leave because I know that my kids won't be going home to an empty house after school.
> 
> Agree with everything else though. I will say- for the first 5-6 years of marriage it felt perfect. Like a true, deep in-love marriage. I agree though now- it's not that anymore and will never be again.


@EastCoastNative 
may be the first 5-6 years she also cheated and had someone else - bud, I would DNA the kids and also ask her for STD test

have you told her parents?

please work on meeting the other wife, she has right to know


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## DudeInProgress

EastCoastNative said:


> Thanks, that's a great comment. I think it puts it into perspective as to why I don't really care to know the truth- the fact is, even if it were "just" an EA (not to downplay the hurt those cause on their own), seeing those messages about hiding it from me, and knowing that there were meetups and 2 years more messages that I haven't seen- I still wouldn't be comfortable staying.


Then your path is clear. 
You just need to ready yourself, create a plan and execute it ruthlessly and as unemotionally as possible.


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## Diana7

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative ,
> 
> what she is doing is playing you and you are a fool -
> 1- you should've never accept sex from her or even talked to her
> 
> she was planning her life around the guy - think for a second, she took your kids away from you so they can meet him, imagine? may be she is waiting for the other guy to leave his wife, or may be waiting for her parents to get the paper then divorce you to be with the guy.
> 
> if you have the a small tiny self respect you would leave - this will also teach your kids to be firm and not tolerate cheaters.
> 
> she will cheat again, she will find someone else or continue behind your back.
> 
> the only reason she is with you is for money - she like the fact that there is guy spend money her and another guy forking her, making love to her and date her. even train her kids and treat them like his own. isn't that enough to make you pause? do you think for a second if you stay with her that she will not do it down the road and waste your life and time that you could've spent with someone else who respect you and honor you?
> 
> the other guy not only was doing your wife but also sucking a hard working money you been making - she was providing for him her body and your money. does that make sense
> 
> yes, stop her parents paper works. and tell them because of their daughter who was cheating.
> 
> and yes find the man's wife and tell her yourself.
> 
> I also hope you are not still sending your kids to the dance lessons?
> 
> you will never be enough for her


Cant agree about hurting the parents. They haven't done anything wrong, and he is clearly a very rich man so can afford it.


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## Diana7

EastCoastNative said:


> I appreciate all the comments. The only one I slightly disagree with is her parents- if I pull my support for their citizenship application, they can never be in the US again and will likely be jailed upon return to Russia for attempting to emigrate. I hate her right now, but I don't hate them. They are realistically going to raise my children during the week when she's busting her butt working a 9-5. They are making it a million times easier for me to leave because I know that my kids won't be going home to an empty house after school.
> 
> Agree with everything else though. I will say- for the first 5-6 years of marriage it felt perfect. Like a true, deep in-love marriage. I agree though now- it's not that anymore and will never be again.


I agree, that would be a horrible thing to do to people who have done nothing wrong, purely for vengeance against their daughter. I am sure the children love them as well.


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## Diana7

In the end, can you trust her again? If not then what is the point? 
Just wanted to say that 2 weeks is nothing. Yes get legal advice etc but take your time.


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## DudeInProgress

Diana7 said:


> I agree, that would be a horrible thing to do to people who have done nothing wrong, purely for vengeance against their daughter. I am sure the children love them as well.


I think the point is not to hurt them, or to be vengeful – it’s just that they’re not his problem anymore. And he’s under no obligation to put himself at any disadvantage to help her parents at this point.
If he still wants to help them, then cool, he should. 
But he is no longer obligated to and that is the result of his wife’s betrayal.


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## sideways

First you NEED to tell the wife what her piece of $h!t husband has been doing. ASAP!!!

You sound like someone who has done well for himself and not afraid to make your dreams come true. Don't let FEAR keep you from doing what you know you need to do here. Why stay with this woman who has stabbed you in the heart thousands of times because that's exactly what she's done. 

Also you need to get to a DR IMMEDIATELY to get tested.


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## bobert

It's great that you are starting to feel better, but it has only been two weeks. Dealing with news like this is usually a rollercoaster. If you continue to feel and do better, great, but be prepared that it probably won't last. 

It has also only been two weeks for your wife. That isn't a long time and it's easy for people to put on an act for a while. She may be doing "everything right" but don't let that fool you. She is doing it because she got caught and doesn't want the consequences of divorce. If she wasn't happy in the marriage before, she won't suddenly be happy now.

The great sex? That's hysterical bonding. It doesn't last and when it ends, that "best sex of my life" sex will likely never be repeated. She's just putting on a show to try and **** her way out of this mess.

Staying sucks. I'm sure divorce does as well but staying sucks for years, at minimum, and there are no guarantees that things will ever be better. It's not worth it. It's not even the right choice for the kids, not if they are going to have two miserable but together parents.

The longer you stay married, the longer you have to pay alimony (generally). Even though she has been a SAHM, she has earning potential because of her education. So that should lower the duration that you have to pay alimony.


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## ShatteredKat

EastCoastNative

I wonder what your wandering spouse - Russian - and the dance instructor - also Russian - think about marital infidelity. I did a short scan on Google and got to wondering how acceptable infidelity is in their society? Something I suggest you ponder.

A person who chooses (yes - chooses!) to commit adultery has deep-seated issues with their morality/boundaries/integrity/respect for their spouse - and so on.

You now have to live with the memory in your face daily if you stay and if you go, you will eventually not think on the event so much - but it is now a part of your life.

Tell the spouse of the AP - it is the right thing to do. Maybe it won't matter to her. But do the right thing and don't be a party to keeping their "secret."
Get thee to a STD testing center (or your personal physician) as there are some nice critters that can take up residence in your body without you knowing they are there - until damage is done.
Worse - some of them you are going to have for life. Hope you are fortunate and have missed that bus-stop.

Kids? Take the word from someone who grew up in an amoral family - it affects you for life.
I suggest you don't share all the dirt she has done but do tell them "Your Mother has chosen a different path going forward in life without me." If they are perceptive and ask questions - don't lie please.

Get the best divorce specialist lawyer you can $$$ and do as he says. But keep a clear head and double-check all his advice.

When her Parents learn of her dalliance - just be short and truthful.
Helping them become US citizens? Might be a good idea for long term
well being of her - might affect how your kids see events unfold as they get older. Set the best example you can regarding how to deal with life in as dignified manner as one can.

Find someone with whom you can talk at length about what you are going through mentally. (IC?)
Brother/Sister? Life-long friend. Conversation will help jell your thoughts and assist in choosing best path to follow in your life going forward.

Sorry to read your story - but as you have already read - your wife appears to be "just another cheater following the Cheaters Handbook."

Post here with your thinking and members will reflect and comment. Keep in mind all of us here have our own interpretations of words and and tolerance - or lack of tolerance - for the situation your wife has bestowed on you.

As people post to your thread - more things to do and ponder will be mentioned.

I suggest if you decide to walk, don't fret over the 2 years of messages (and whatever other details) you don't have - they will just add to your misery. I would hazard a weeks wages she has crossed the line both EA and PA - and once is enough of cause to sever the relationship.

But (!) you may want to consider child custody and what you want and need in the way of concrete information regarding her fitness to be a mother. A PI would be good to get to look into her last two years of "fun."


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## oldshirt

EastCoastNative said:


> The only problem is the kids. I can say, with about 60%-70% confidence based on the way she's acted in the past 2 weeks, that this won't happen again. So I'm always going to have guilt for being the one to actually end it and ruin their lives, even though I know that it's her who did it. That's the only thing I'm stuck on.
> .


A BS should never feel that they are the one breaking up the family or hurting the kids. 

That falls squarely on the WS.


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## Marc878

EastCoastNative said:


> Me: 38M
> Her: 35F
> 
> Together 11 years, married 9 years, 2 kids ages 6 and 8
> 
> So two weeks ago I discovered my wife, who for context is a stay at home mom, having an affair. It's a long story that I might get up the effort to write out at some point, but it matches SO many of the stories I've read on here- stumbled on a strange text, picked at it, restored her whatsapp history and found texts from 2.5 years ago about meetups. There were even texts between them about how to hide it from me. Unfortunately I was only able to recover 3 months of texts so I'm missing the most important middle 2 years. She dribbled out some more facts but none groundbreaking- I had evidence of two meetups during that period in public parks outside, and she said there were 6 more. She also said that he texted her fantasies about him doing her, but she is adamant that she just ignored him (but still met up with him again after getting those texts). Her texts back to him in the first three months are like daggers through my heart and hard to read, mostly about how she wanted more after their meetups and how it's important that I don't find out.
> *All cheaters lie a lot. A lot! Most will only admit to what you can prove.*
> 
> If I had not caught it, it would have continued. Of course, my physical evidence and her light admissions only prove an EA, but I'm not an idiot so I'm sure it was physical too. I saw texts about them meeting up in the same town that he lives in, and it's a 40 minute drive away from us. And this was just in the first 3 months of their affair, there's no way it didn't progress past that. I haven't pushed too hard yet because right now, more truth isn't really going to change anything, but if I decide to stay I might want more truth. I haven't spoken to OM's wife yet as she's not in my circle and I don't know her, but if I decide to stay I'm going to want to talk to her and compare admissions (I don't even know if she knows yet).
> *You only need proof enough for yourself. This isn’t a court of law. If they met up they had sex. A lot of sex.
> Inform her boyfriends wife. She may get you more info. It’s not your job to help hide their affair.*
> 
> This guy was her dance instructor who also teaches our kids to dance (she did weekday lessons with him too). I saw him every weekend when I dropped off our kids to him. This was a huge fight for us even when I didn't know they had something, mainly because I wanted to see the kids on the entire weekend and hated that they were doing nearly full day lessons on saturdays doing dance (that the kids didn't even want to do). He is married with a newborn and a 3 year old, so he's clearly an awful person too.
> *I doubt your wife is the only one he’s banging. *
> 
> The last two weeks have been awful, to say the least. I'm in IC and I made her see an IC too. I'm not ready for MC because I'm not sure if I want to stay yet. I think I've made it through the depression, at least the worst of it, and I've started eating and sleeping again.
> *You don’t need MC. The marriage isn’t broken she is. Most MC’s are rugsweepers anyway. *
> 
> Other than all the awful above (and there is some more, but those are the primary details), and aside from the fact that I know she's still hiding stuff, she's been doing everything textbook perfect since it all came out. Cut off contact, huge apologies, actually looks miserable, etc. Sex before this was once per week and boring, and now it's the best of my life and daily.
> *She’s sorry she got caught. She’s giving you a lot of sex to manipulate you and apparently it’s working. Wake up.*
> 
> However, I know for sure that it wouldn't have stopped if I didn't catch her. We've been married 9 years and she's been doing this for nearly a third of our marriage. She was a good wife the first ~6 years, but during the affair period she has also been an awful wife- always putting me last, ignoring me on birthdays, couldn't even keep up around the house so I hired a cleaning lady and often had to get my own dry cleaning etc. And the biggest issue is that she would ALWAYS put the kids first- never let us get a babysitter, would always book classes for them over my wishes to see them, etc.
> *Now you know why. Her actions tell you she doesn’t give a damn about you. Only your checkbook.*
> 
> Another crazy fact- her family lives in Russia and due the war, 6 months ago I opened my house to them, bought them a car, and am sponsoring them in their US citizenship application, all to save them from the war. None of this was enough for her to stop cheating. Her parents are wonderful people so I don't plan to do anything to torpedo their citizenship application even though I am so mad at the daughter they raised.
> *Cut off the white knight BS and take care of yourself first. You don’t owe them anything.*
> 
> For the record, I've always been perfectly faithful to her, even breaking contact with female coworkers when it seemed they were getting too friendly.
> *It didn’t get you much did it.*
> 
> Anyway, I'm mainly writing this because I KNOW that the right answer is to leave, but I'm weak and need help getting over the edge. Writing this down has been therapeutic in itself. I have been a doormat to her for the past ~3 years. I feel physically ill when I think about reconciling, but my depression, sadness, and anxiety evaporates when I think about leaving. Sure, there is some nervousness about the uncertainty of my new life- new apartment, how to coparent, etc. But that feels more like regular stress, which is what I deal with every day in my life at work, so it doesn't bring me down. I actually started looking into divorce last year when she was in the worst of it, but since I didn't know about the affair I decided that I would rather have a mediocre wife and happy kids so I sucked it up and dropped it. I did tell her about it, although not strongly enough- I said things like "what am I doing in this relationship if you're not going to support me" etc, and in the past two weeks I asked her what she thought when I said that and she said it made her mad at me, but she realizes now that she should have listened.
> *Drop your hopium pipe and see a good attorney or live to regret it.*
> 
> I'm also a little nervous about the first couple months post leaving- for a decade, she has been my everything. Every night and weekend has been spent with her. Right now, we're living in the same house and sort of dating, but I make it clear that I'm not sure yet whether we're breaking up or reconciling. My therapist made it clear that it's not a good idea to make decisions until I get back to healthy, but I feel like I'm approaching that soon as I've been able to eat and sleep for the past ~5-6 days and starting to get a clear head.
> *You wreak of codependency. Fix that or suffer.*
> 
> The only problem is the kids. I can say, with about 60%-70% confidence based on the way she's acted in the past 2 weeks, that this won't happen again. So I'm always going to have guilt for being the one to actually end it and ruin their lives, even though I know that it's her who did it. That's the only thing I'm stuck on.
> *You probably never thought she’d cheat either. So after two weeks of her love bombing you after she got caught your convinced it’ll never happen again? You are very naive.
> Being a martyr is hard thankless work and no one is going to give a damn.*
> 
> Financially, I've already gotten her to agree to a post-nup if we try to work it out, but as I re-read everything I wrote, a straight divorce seems so much cleaner and ultimately better for my mental health.
> 
> No discrete question in here, but would love to hear feedback. Thanks all.


You are a chump only if you allow it. Right now you are looking for excuses to stay.
Get STD testing. You don’t know where or who her boyfriend has been with.
Your wife is just a cake eater doing her best to ensure you keep feeding her more cake.


----------



## Marc878

DNA test your kids. They may not be yours.


----------



## OnTheRocks

Get her to sign the post-nup, and then dump her. You will not be ruining your kids' lives.


----------



## 342693

Sorry you’re going through this. I had a wife cheat and it was hell for several months after (weight loss, depression, etc). But it does get better, trust me. Focus on yourself and your kids. Work out, pick up some new hobbies and be the best Dad you can be.

Obviously you need to divorce your wife. She crossed a red line and there’s no going back. She will cheat again once she thinks you’ve let your guard down. 

Try to use the affair as a position of power in the divorce. Not sure what state you live in, but alimony is null in some states when adultery can be proven. Hang in there!


----------



## Marc878

Your wife


----------



## Beach123

The sex now is manipulation on her part! It’s her way of trying to get you to stay. 
just divorce her. You’ll have more peace of mind if you divo ce her.
Settle in to a routine with your kids- make sure the wife has to get a job. She has the back ground to work - so tell her to start working now!
Don’t be all nice to her. She ruined your life/marriage/family! And she plotted and planned it by deliberately meeting him for years! She won’t change!
She figures she will give you daily sex until things settle down and then she can go back to seeing him once the dust settles.

make sure you keep the house you have been paying for. All the money she’s been spending? It was likely money spent on her OM!

get the kids dna tested now! You need to know for sure if they are yours! I understand you may still treat them the same no matter the outcome - but still you need the truth - with evidence! 
if one or both kids are the OM - well then - HE can pay her that child support money!

it makes me sick when women have a good life and fancy everything - but they just can’t be satisfied enough with the man at home PROVIDING them that lifestyle!

NO, you shouldn’t stay with her! She gives women a bad name! Just divorce her - she can go cheat on someone else! And she will!


----------



## EastCoastNative

Thanks for the advice, all. I had the deeper consult with the attorney today, she was great. Really brought me a lot of clarity. There is no doubt that this will be financially ruinous for the first couple years, but I know I'll recover and be happier in the long run. The good thing is that I'm just hitting my stride in my career so this will hopefully be nothing more than a blip on the radar.

I'm really torn on the house- I just really want the kids to have normalcy and be able to stay in the house. All their friends in the neighborhood are here- they just run out the back door and play for hours. I don't want them to lose that just because their mom is a cheater.

The attorney made it clear that if we do 50/50 custody, I probably need to keep the house myself as she won't be able to support it. She will financially be able to support it as my child support will be around $9k/mo and the mortgage is $4600/mo, but they would need to figure out how to get me off the mortgage and my lawyer thinks she won't be able to qualify on her own.

I just don't know what life looks like if I keep the house. I work a ton and travel sometimes for work, so I like knowing that they are going to have the same house with the same grandparents taking care of them when the parents aren't around. Even though we'll do 50/50 custody, it's realistically probably going to mean every other weekend plus a couple of weeknights for me, with the expectation that they are likely spending more "house hours" with their mother and grandparents. I foresee me being the parent that the kids have "sleepovers" at during the week, with them thinking of our current home as "home".

We'll have to sharpen pencils to figure this out. So far I see the house as the biggest logistical issue, all else considered.

Separately, emotionally, I still have about 3% of doubt creeping in that "what if it truly was just an EA", but every time I write that, I realize that even an EA that lasted for 2.5 years is enough for me to leave. So I really don't care to know the rest- she left this marriage 2.5 years ago and I'm just the one papering it. She's fighting back hard right now, sensing that I'm leaving. But I'm not having it- I feel so much better mentally now that I have started to check out.


----------



## SunCMars

You will leave having the upper hand, and with your 'face' intact.

She will not.

She will live well off your 'forced' largess, but only until the children are 18, then each child support payment will drop off, one-by-one.
This at, 10 and 12 years respectively.

Naturally, you will help pay for their colleges and marriages, as most parents do!

At 12 years, I suspect you will be totally, financially free of her.
What does/will your attorney say on my figures?

You sound like an honorable man, so bringing her parents over is proper.
A man's word is his word.

Doing so, it shows you have class.
Few do, these days.


Never mention to anyone that you will be using them as babysitters.
While true, keep that notion to yourself.

When you sponsor immigrants you likely are liable for many of their financial obligations while in the U.S.
That includes health costs and benefits.

If one of them requires long term care or open heart surgery you _might_ be liable.
There is that initial 5 year rule, that you must contend with (I believe).
Check with your attorney.

If one of them gets in an accident and they do not have insurance, you _may_ be liable for them, in a lawsuit, or a Judicial action.

...........................................................................................

_An aside: I sponsored 11 people and I was lucky, that none of it blew back on me._


----------



## Livvie

Holy **** she's gonna be getting 9k a month from you?

Holy ****.


----------



## EastCoastNative

Livvie said:


> Holy **** she's gonna be getting 9k a month from you?
> 
> Holy ****.


Yep. Although only for the first 1-3 years then it falls to $7k/mo; I was lumping child support and alimony but the attorney said that in my state alimony will only be ~$2k and will stop in 1.5-3 years.

I only make $15k/mo after taxes, healthcare, etc in regular months but a lot of my money comes in once per year in bonuses so I'll likely be cashflow negative throughout the year outside of bonus months, which is fine.

But let's be fair, my kids are the ones who will benefit from the $7k/mo and they deserve that- it's not their fault they have a bad mom.

She'll likely also get another $300-500k in cash all-in after legal expenses, depending on what happens with the house. It doesn't go far where we live though, it's extremely expensive up here (yet another sore spot- I've been trying to move out of my area for a long time but she's been fighting it... I'm sure we can guess why).



SunCMars said:


> At 12 years, I suspect you will be totally, financially free of her.
> What does/will your attorney say on my figures?
> 
> When you sponsor immigrants you likely are liable for many of their financial obligations while in the U.S.
> That includes health costs and benefits.
> 
> If one of them requires long term care or open heart surgery you _might_ be liable.
> There is that initial 5 year rule, that you must contend with (I believe).
> Check with your attorney.
> 
> If one of them gets in an accident and they do not have insurance, you _may_ be liable for them, in a lawsuit, or a Judicial action.
> 
> _An aside: I sponsored 11 people and I was lucky, that none of it blew back on me._


Yes, your numbers check out. 1-3 years for alimony + 10-12 years for child support. On the immigration support, my attorney thinks she'll agree to indemnify me for that out of her half, as in, I can sue her if the government comes to me. She'll have enough assets for me to go after if that happens.


----------



## SunCMars

Your wife...

There is no fool, so lost, as one who is aggressive and arrogant.
She is not short sighted, she is blind.

I know, she did not expect to be caught.
They never do.

She will come out of this smelling like a rose.
Yet, that will not suffice for her.

In her mind, she will soon smell like a rose in the hand of a backwards village girl.
Again.

That Cinderella, returning to her old home, with her new bed in the modest guest house, behind the mansion.


----------



## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative this is seems awfully a lot, may be consult with another lawyer?

and yes I agree, the money will go to your kids mostly and she will reap what she sow (destroying a secure and safe marriage)

remember, you will be more in main if you stay, for a long time. plus the pay out would be more down the road if decide it is not working. 

not true about the house being a sleep over. it is all depend on you how you make it for your kids. keeping the house for yourself should be a priority

wouldn't hurt if you go the divorce route to ask her to lower your monthly payment since it is her fault (log shot), the extra money you keep either way will go to kids. 

stop having sex with her, this will not make it easier and will shake your decisions in either direction.


----------



## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative this is seems awfully a lot, may be consult with another lawyer?
> 
> and yes I agree, the money will go to your kids mostly and she will reap what she sow (destroying a secure and safe marriage)
> 
> remember, you will be more in main if you stay, for a long time. plus the pay out would be more down the road if decide it is not working.
> 
> not true about the house being a sleep over. it is all depend on you how you make it for your kids. keeping the house for yourself should be a priority
> 
> wouldn't hurt if you go the divorce route to ask her to lower your monthly payment since it is her fault (log shot), the extra money you keep either way will go to kids.
> 
> stop having sex with her, this will not make it easier and will shake your decisions in either direction.


Helpful comments, I appreciate it. Regarding alimony and child support, it's just a formula set by the state. My lawyer indicated that this is worst case, and it will decline as she re-enters the workforce since child support is supposed to be a split. The real benefit the lawyer expects to reap in this case is in the settlement itself- she thinks that since the wife currently feels really guilty, and because I still hold the power to revoke her parents' citizenship (not that I would), that I can likely get her to agree to accept hundreds of thousands less in the settlement.

The state won't allow us to bargain down the child support. It's really just an unfortunate situation of someone who earns most of the year's money in lump sums so it looks worse than it is since the child support monthly looks so close to how much I make monthly, but it's not bad on an annual basis.

I hear you on the house. The lawyer is pushing me to try to keep it too. I realize I'm not the best decisionmaker right now so I'm not disagreeing; just that in my current state I want them to have the least change possible and realistically I always worked a lot anyway on weekdays so I picture them being least disrupted if they stay in the house. 

Honestly I'm not sure that I even want to live in the house as it's really hard with all the memories. Although I guess writing that, everyone is going to feel that way including the kids. So who freaking knows at this point.

Today was a hard day. She spent the day sending me messages at work about how she's sorry, how she was lost during that time, but then turned to the dreaded "it was your fault too". Gave me a spiel about how this summer she wanted to do couples counseling but I told her no. I remember this conversation- it came up a few months back when I told her I wasn't happy in our marriage; my answer wasn't a "no" but a "you need IC first" as she was clearly depressed. But this is against a backdrop of the fact that she had already been cheating for 2 years by the time of this conversation.

She keeps saying that he was just a friend and that she liked the compliments (including how much he wanted to do her), and that he was just preying on her depression. She said she liked having a man tell her how great she is. I used to do that _all the time_, but stopped right around the same time she started seeing this guy because honestly, she wasn't being great anymore. She turned into an awful wife (aside from the affair) and not even that great of a mother, and I told her nicely at first but it got more pointed as the time went on. For our entire marriage I used to buy her flowers randomly, but ironically in the past 1-2 years I haven't been because I didn't feel like she deserved them. She uses this to defend the affair but I use it as evidence that she checked out of the marriage. She keeps flipping between entirely remorseful, "it wasn't that bad", and "it was your fault too". 

I'm just so ready to be done with this.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> Helpful comments, I appreciate it. Regarding alimony and child support, it's just a formula set by the state. My lawyer indicated that this is worst case, and it will decline as she re-enters the workforce since child support is supposed to be a split. The real benefit the lawyer expects to reap in this case is in the settlement itself- she thinks that since the wife currently feels really guilty, and because I still hold the power to revoke her parents' citizenship (not that I would), that I can likely get her to agree to accept hundreds of thousands less in the settlement.
> 
> The state won't allow us to bargain down the child support. It's really just an unfortunate situation of someone who earns most of the year's money in lump sums so it looks worse than it is since the child support monthly looks so close to how much I make monthly, but it's not bad on an annual basis.
> 
> I hear you on the house. The lawyer is pushing me to try to keep it too. I realize I'm not the best decisionmaker right now so I'm not disagreeing; just that in my current state I want them to have the least change possible and realistically I always worked a lot anyway on weekdays so I picture them being least disrupted if they stay in the house.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure that I even want to live in the house as it's really hard with all the memories. Although I guess writing that, everyone is going to feel that way including the kids. So who freaking knows at this point.
> 
> Today was a hard day. She spent the day sending me messages at work about how she's sorry, how she was lost during that time, but then turned to the dreaded "it was your fault too". Gave me a spiel about how this summer she wanted to do couples counseling but I told her no. I remember this conversation- it came up a few months back when I told her I wasn't happy in our marriage; my answer wasn't a "no" but a "you need IC first" as she was clearly depressed. But this is against a backdrop of the fact that she had already been cheating for 2 years by the time of this conversation.
> 
> She keeps saying that he was just a friend and that she liked the compliments (including how much he wanted to do her), and that he was just preying on her depression. She said she liked having a man tell her how great she is. I used to do that _all the time_, but stopped right around the same time she started seeing this guy because honestly, she wasn't being great anymore. She turned into an awful wife (aside from the affair) and not even that great of a mother, and I told her nicely at first but it got more pointed as the time went on. For our entire marriage I used to buy her flowers randomly, but ironically in the past 1-2 years I haven't been because I didn't feel like she deserved them. She uses this to defend the affair but I use it as evidence that she checked out of the marriage. She keeps flipping between entirely remorseful, "it wasn't that bad", and "it was your fault too".
> 
> I'm just so ready to be done with this.


I'm glad you're moving on with your divorce and getting away from a cheating wife. All the "it's your fault too" language is just typical blameshifting and trying to justify. Don't let it sit in your head for one second. The choice was hers and she made it. End of story. Everything that happened after that choice was a consequence of the choice itself, and it still is. This is entirely on her.

Any idea when she will be served? All H will break lose then, she will go over the top love bombing you crying, begging, pleading. Better to plan now for how to minimize your contact with her. Got any trips coming up?


----------



## Openminded

She doesn’t want a divorce so don’t be surprised if she starts throwing sex at you to get you back in line. That would be a big mistake on your part so don’t let her talk you into being alone with her for any reason.


----------



## EastCoastNative

I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


----------



## blackclover3

have you told her that you are going to speak to the other wife? 
check also her phone to see if she is still communicating with the other guy while she feels sorry


----------



## Young at Heart

First of all you sound like a really competent guy who will survive this and be better for the whole of your experience. 


EastCoastNative said:


> .....Together 11 years, married 9 years, 2 kids ages 6 and 8
> 
> So two weeks ago I discovered my wife, who for context is a stay at home mom, having an affair.
> 
> ......If I had not caught it, it would have continued. Of course, my physical evidence and her light admissions only prove an EA, but I'm not an idiot so I'm sure it was physical too.
> 
> ....I make a lot of money
> 
> ......The last two weeks have been awful, to say the least. I'm in IC and I made her see an IC too. I'm not ready for MC because I'm not sure if I want to stay yet. I think I've made it through the depression, at least the worst of it, and I've started eating and sleeping again.
> 
> .....However, I know for sure that it wouldn't have stopped if I didn't catch her. We've been married 9 years and she's been doing this for nearly a third of our marriage.
> 
> ....Another crazy fact- her family lives in Russia and due the war, 6 months ago I opened my house to them, bought them a car, and am sponsoring them in their US citizenship application, all to save them from the war. None of this was enough for her to stop cheating. Her parents are wonderful people so I don't plan to do anything to torpedo their citizenship application even though I am so mad at the daughter they raised.
> 
> .....Anyway, I'm mainly writing this because I KNOW that the right answer is to leave, but I'm weak and need help getting over the edge. *Writing this down has been therapeutic in itself.*
> 
> .......The only problem is the kids. ......That's the only thing I'm stuck on.
> 
> Financially, I've already gotten her to agree to a post-nup if we try to work it out, but as I re-read everything I wrote, a straight divorce seems so much cleaner and ultimately better for my mental health.
> 
> No discrete question in here, *but would love to hear feedback. Thanks all.*





EastCoastNative said:


> I appreciate all the comments. The only one I slightly disagree with is her parents- if I pull my support for their citizenship application, they can never be in the US again and will likely be jailed upon return to Russia for attempting to emigrate. I hate her right now, but I don't hate them. They are realistically going to raise my children during the week when she's busting her butt working a 9-5. They are making it a million times easier for me to leave because I know that my kids won't be going home to an empty house after school.
> 
> Agree with everything else though. I will say- for the first 5-6 years of marriage it felt perfect. Like a true, deep in-love marriage. I agree though now- it's not that anymore and will never be again.





EastCoastNative said:


> Thanks for the advice, all. * I had the deeper consult with the attorney today, she was great. * Really brought me a lot of clarity.
> 
> .......I'm really torn on the house- I just really want the kids to have normalcy and be able to stay in the house. All their friends in the neighborhood are here- they just run out the back door and play for hours. I don't want them to lose that just because their mom is a cheater.
> 
> The attorney made it clear that if we do 50/50 custody, I probably need to keep the house myself as she won't be able to support it. She will financially be able to support it as my child support will be around $9k/mo and the mortgage is $4600/mo, but they would need to figure out how to get me off the mortgage and my lawyer thinks she won't be able to qualify on her own.
> 
> I just don't know what life looks like if I keep the house. I work a ton and travel sometimes for work, so I like knowing that they are going to have the same house with the same grandparents taking care of them when the parents aren't around. *Even though we'll do 50/50 custody, it's realistically probably going to mean every other weekend plus a couple of weeknights for me, with the expectation that they are likely spending more "house hours" with their mother and grandparents. * I foresee me being the parent that the kids have "sleepovers" at during the week, with them thinking of our current home as "home".....





EastCoastNative said:


> ....But let's be fair, my kids are the ones who will benefit from the $7k/mo and they deserve that- it's not their fault they have a bad mom......





EastCoastNative said:


> Helpful comments, I appreciate it. Regarding alimony and child support, it's just a formula set by the state. My lawyer indicated that this is worst case, and it will decline as she re-enters the workforce since child support is supposed to be a split. The real benefit the lawyer expects to reap in this case is in the settlement itself- she thinks that since the wife currently feels really guilty, and because I still hold the power to revoke her parents' citizenship (not that I would), that I can likely get her to agree to accept hundreds of thousands less in the settlement.
> 
> The state won't allow us to bargain down the child support. It's really just an unfortunate situation of someone who earns most of the year's money in lump sums so it looks worse than it is since the child support monthly looks so close to how much I make monthly, but it's not bad on an annual basis.
> 
> .....For our entire marriage I used to buy her flowers randomly, but ironically in the past 1-2 years I haven't been because I didn't feel like she deserved them. She uses this to defend the affair but I use it as evidence that she checked out of the marriage. *She keeps flipping between entirely remorseful, "it wasn't that bad", and "it was your fault too".*
> 
> *I'm just so ready to be done with this.*


Again, you are doing really well. I admire many of your decissions. One of the things you need to guard against is her bad mouthing you in front of your children. Because you will be helper your children's grandparents, especially if they know that she cheated on you and you still helped them, they may become a balancing factor in their life. 

Use TAM for therapy any time. Your W is likely to continue to jump from it was her fault and she repents, to it was your fault, to let's just live together like it was. Have none of it. Look her in the face and tell her she knows exactly what happened and it was her that destroyed the marriage through her cheating. Don't be silent, make sure you let her, her parents, and your children know that you were happily married and committed to her you found out she cheated on you and that you could no longer trust her. If she says she wants to start over, look at her and ask her how could you ever trust someone who would cheat on you for about a third of your marriage?

I am glad so much of your decision making is geared toward your children. They will grow up quickly, so in your settlement, ask if you can have custody during vacations with your children. Take advantage of summer and school vacations to build a relationship with them before they start seeking independence.

Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


Put yourself in her shoes for a moment. She knows exactly what happened and who is to blame. She has to look her children in the face each day and explain why dad is divorcing her. She has to explain to her parents why such a good husband, father and provider, is divorcing their daughter.

She is in a daily world of embarrassment and humiliation. Of course she wants to paint you as the bad guy. Just don't accept it and make is clear to her, your children, and your wife's parents that you did not "give up on you wife," she cheated for about a third of your marriage and that is what destroyed the marriage. It was all her doing. She needs to realize that she not only hurt her husband, but her actions hurt her children and her parents.

Good luck.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


“Consequences of adultery”. That's the only response you need, and the only one that is accurate.


----------



## sideways

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


HELLO!!!!!

She gave up on you and your children TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO when she brought another man into the relationship and into her.


----------



## elliblue

She is just after your money and you being her parents ticket out of Russia. She is just concerned her parents will be upset for her to lose their paycheck.
She is from a culture were people very often put money above everything. In those cultures financial support is more important then love. This is different to western culture.
Don't fool yourself her parents are different to her. They raised her.

She chose you over the dance teacher because your paycheck is higher then his. And her parents and the family back in Russia will be freaking out and will get very, very angry that she is losing access to a lot of money by getting divorced. It doesn't matter if you still suport her. Every cent of money she loses after a divirce is a desaster. 

I don't know how you met her, but with women from certain cultures you should look twice.
You clearly didn't.


----------



## bygone

Don't give importance to the words of the woman who cheated for 3 years

make a deal with a good lawyer on what to give up if she cheats and get it signed

don't spend too much time at home, ignore your wife

After 3 months, hire a private detective to bring you the evidence in a week.

divorce


----------



## Marc878

blackclover3 said:


> have you told her that you are going to speak to the other wife?
> check also her phone to see if she is still communicating with the other guy while she feels sorry


You don’t tell her anything. Just inform the other spouse.


----------



## Marc878

EastCoastNative said:


> Thanks for the advice, all. I had the deeper consult with the attorney today, she was great. Really brought me a lot of clarity. There is no doubt that this will be financially ruinous for the first couple years, but I know I'll recover and be happier in the long run. The good thing is that I'm just hitting my stride in my career so this will hopefully be nothing more than a blip on the radar.
> 
> I'm really torn on the house- I just really want the kids to have normalcy and be able to stay in the house. All their friends in the neighborhood are here- they just run out the back door and play for hours. I don't want them to lose that just because their mom is a cheater.
> 
> The attorney made it clear that if we do 50/50 custody, I probably need to keep the house myself as she won't be able to support it. She will financially be able to support it as my child support will be around $9k/mo and the mortgage is $4600/mo, but they would need to figure out how to get me off the mortgage and my lawyer thinks she won't be able to qualify on her own.
> 
> I just don't know what life looks like if I keep the house. I work a ton and travel sometimes for work, so I like knowing that they are going to have the same house with the same grandparents taking care of them when the parents aren't around. Even though we'll do 50/50 custody, it's realistically probably going to mean every other weekend plus a couple of weeknights for me, with the expectation that they are likely spending more "house hours" with their mother and grandparents. I foresee me being the parent that the kids have "sleepovers" at during the week, with them thinking of our current home as "home".
> 
> We'll have to sharpen pencils to figure this out. So far I see the house as the biggest logistical issue, all else considered.
> 
> Separately, emotionally, I still have about 3% of doubt creeping in that "what if it truly was just an EA", but every time I write that, I realize that even an EA that lasted for 2.5 years is enough for me to leave. So I really don't care to know the rest- she left this marriage 2.5 years ago and I'm just the one papering it. She's fighting back hard right now, sensing that I'm leaving. But I'm not having it- I feel so much better mentally now that I have started to check out.


Adults don’t have EA’s for 3 years. They have sex. A lot of sex. Stay out of hopium. All that’ll do is make you a chump.


----------



## Marc878

EastCoastNative said:


> Helpful comments, I appreciate it. Regarding alimony and child support, it's just a formula set by the state. My lawyer indicated that this is worst case, and it will decline as she re-enters the workforce since child support is supposed to be a split. The real benefit the lawyer expects to reap in this case is in the settlement itself- she thinks that since the wife currently feels really guilty, and because I still hold the power to revoke her parents' citizenship (not that I would), that I can likely get her to agree to accept hundreds of thousands less in the settlement.
> 
> The state won't allow us to bargain down the child support. It's really just an unfortunate situation of someone who earns most of the year's money in lump sums so it looks worse than it is since the child support monthly looks so close to how much I make monthly, but it's not bad on an annual basis.
> 
> I hear you on the house. The lawyer is pushing me to try to keep it too. I realize I'm not the best decisionmaker right now so I'm not disagreeing; just that in my current state I want them to have the least change possible and realistically I always worked a lot anyway on weekdays so I picture them being least disrupted if they stay in the house.
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure that I even want to live in the house as it's really hard with all the memories. Although I guess writing that, everyone is going to feel that way including the kids. So who freaking knows at this point.
> 
> Today was a hard day. She spent the day sending me messages at work about how she's sorry, how she was lost during that time, but then turned to the dreaded "it was your fault too". Gave me a spiel about how this summer she wanted to do couples counseling but I told her no. I remember this conversation- it came up a few months back when I told her I wasn't happy in our marriage; my answer wasn't a "no" but a "you need IC first" as she was clearly depressed. But this is against a backdrop of the fact that she had already been cheating for 2 years by the time of this conversation.
> Learn to ignore her or stay entangled in this mess. She just wants more cake at your expense.
> 
> She keeps saying that he was just a friend and that she liked the compliments (including how much he wanted to do her), and that he was just preying on her depression. She said she liked having a man tell her how great she is. I used to do that _all the time_, but stopped right around the same time she started seeing this guy because honestly, she wasn't being great anymore. She turned into an awful wife (aside from the affair) and not even that great of a mother, and I told her nicely at first but it got more pointed as the time went on. For our entire marriage I used to buy her flowers randomly, but ironically in the past 1-2 years I haven't been because I didn't feel like she deserved them. She uses this to defend the affair but I use it as evidence that she checked out of the marriage. She keeps flipping between entirely remorseful, "it wasn't that bad", and "it was your fault too".
> *She is a liar. Liars lie. Then they lie more to cover up their lies.*
> 
> I'm just so ready to be done with this.


----------



## Marc878

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


Just blame shifting BS. Typical cheater speak.
Cut off any help to her parents. That’s not your problem. Let them figure it out.
Your kids will be affected no matter what. Do the best you can but do not be a martyr. That won’t help them or you.
If you don’t save yourself first you won’t be of any help to anyone else.
Cut off as much contact with your soon to be x. That’s your only good path.


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## EastCoastNative

What are people's overall impression of using separate attorneys vs. mediation?

She and I spoke about splitting assets over the weekend. The guilt is really weighing on her so she's offering to take a pretty reasonable settlement and promises not to fight me. 50/50 custody works for her. The numbers are still big so I burn up inside when I think about it, but it's a lot less than half so it's better than it would be if we went to court.

I can tell she's still approaching it with hope, though, so it could turn quickly the moment it sets in that I'm leaving.

Separately, I had an awful weekend emotionally. Very hard being with the kids right now, knowing their lives are about to wildly change. Makes me feel guilty for not being able to swallow my pride and stay, but I just know that would emotionally erase me going forward and I'm worth more than that to myself. I keep thinking "should I just do a post-nup and try to work on it" but the moment I think of it I go into a really, really deep sadness picturing what that life would look like.


----------



## Mr.Married

People generally jump to the worst case scenario when they are scared of something. Rarely does it work out like that in real life. Don’t let your unrealistic vision of the future cloud up your current train of thought.


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## Livvie

Each get your own attorneys. 

You can still mediate even with attorneys.


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## Sfort

EastCoastNative said:


> I'm also a little nervous about the first couple months post leaving- for a decade, she has been my everything.


You can get a maid. 



EastCoastNative said:


> I can say, with about 60%-70% confidence based on the way she's acted in the past 2 weeks, that this won't happen again.


No you can't. She's an actress. Anyone who can cheat for three years will NEVER again be completely loyal to your marriage. 



EastCoastNative said:


> So I'm always going to have guilt for being the one to actually end it and ruin their lives, even though I know that it's her who did it.


Read that a few times and convince yourself of what you're saying. The cheater is always 100% responsible for cheating.



EastCoastNative said:


> I just never wanted one of "those" marriages (of course, who does)- the one where the husband works 50+ hour weeks to provide an amazing life for the spouse and kids, and the spouse cheats with one of the fitness coaches.


The wife always wants the benefit of the husband working 50+ hours per week, but when the wife gets caught with her pants down, she blames the husband for working 50+ hours per week. It's ********. 



EastCoastNative said:


> I assume I'll be paying for the house for at least the next 12 until the kids are 18, but thank goodness it's at a low mortgage rate thanks to the pandemic.


If you're going to be making over a million dollars per year, you won't have a problem paying off the mortgage. 



EastCoastNative said:


> but then turned to the dreaded "it was your fault too"


Of course it did. You let the conversation go there. Remember, as above, the cheater is always 100% responsible for cheating.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

EastCoastNative said:


> What are people's overall impression of using separate attorneys vs. mediation?
> 
> She and I spoke about splitting assets over the weekend. The guilt is really weighing on her so she's offering to take a pretty reasonable settlement and promises not to fight me. 50/50 custody works for her. The numbers are still big so I burn up inside when I think about it, but it's a lot less than half so it's better than it would be if we went to court.
> 
> I can tell she's still approaching it with hope, though, so it could turn quickly the moment it sets in that I'm leaving.
> 
> Separately, I had an awful weekend emotionally. Very hard being with the kids right now, knowing their lives are about to wildly change. Makes me feel guilty for not being able to swallow my pride and stay, but I just know that would emotionally erase me going forward and I'm worth more than that to myself. I keep thinking "should I just do a post-nup and try to work on it" but the moment I think of it I go into a really, really deep sadness picturing what that life would look like.


Only you can make the choice about what to do moving forward.


----------



## Affaircare

EastCoastNative said:


> What are people's overall impression of using separate attorneys vs. mediation?


I would recommend mediating what you can, writing down what you both agree to, and then having separate attorneys review it. Bear in mind that an attorney's job is not only "to give you the best legal advice" but also "to increase billable hours" so they are likely to push something like "...you can get way more than this if we fight..." hence more hours for them. If you both have attorneys you somewhat trust, have them review the agreement, give input, and write the agreement. Period.



> She and I spoke about splitting assets over the weekend. The guilt is really weighing on her so she's offering to take a pretty reasonable settlement and promises not to fight me. 50/50 custody works for her. The numbers are still big so I burn up inside when I think about it, but it's a lot less than half so it's better than it would be if we went to court.
> 
> I can tell she's still approaching it with hope, though, so it could turn quickly the moment it sets in that I'm leaving.


Get the deal while the getting is good. 50/50 legal and phyiscal custody is the standard, so I'm glad both of you agreeable. Regarding the house, let me ask you this: what would you do if your wife suddenly passed away? You'd still have to work and still have to figure out how to care for your kids all on your own. THAT is what you do now! You will have them at least half the time on your own, so as the father, there's no reason you and the kids don't keep the marital, family home (to keep their lives as consistent as possible) and she goes ahead and finds her own housing with her credit and the amount per month she's going to receive. See...single moms have raised kids for decades and somehow they did it! You can too. Let's say you are c-level in your career and that means late nights. Okay...get a aupair or nanny. Or have the kids go to after-school care during your week. Or have them go to "lessons" or "sports" and you pick them up at practice. Gotta leave to the office at 6am? Cool figure out a carpool where you pay your portion of gas for other "moms" to do the driving. See what I mean? You can do this! 



> Separately, I had an awful weekend emotionally. Very hard being with the kids right now, knowing their lives are about to wildly change. Makes me feel guilty for not being able to swallow my pride and stay, but I just know that would emotionally erase me going forward and I'm worth more than that to myself. I keep thinking "should I just do a post-nup and try to work on it" but the moment I think of it I go into a really, really deep sadness picturing what that life would look like.


I would like to encourage you on something. It is not YOU who changed their lives!! Don't do that to yourself. Your wife committed ADULTERY! She was hoping that she could emasculate you and you'd accept her infidelity, and she's sad/upset that you aren't just letting her eat cake! And what she is doing is classic DARVO--have you heard of that? It stands for "Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender." First is to deny what is as plain as day. Just DENY. Insist it didn't happen; gaslight. Next, if denial doesn't work, then attack the victim. Deflect blame. ANYTHING to avoid admitting what they did was wrong--but primarily, emotionally assault the one who's been betrayed. Next, if denial and attacking don't work, make the offender "the victim" and the victim "the offender." See, her ACTIONS over the course of YEARS were a decision over and over again to do what she KNEW would kill her marriage and family--and THAT is what is going to harm your kids. You and the kids are the victims here. Were you perfect? No. But you and the kids are the injured parties, injured by her CHOICES and ACTIONS. She is the offender. But...she is going to try to reverse that so she's the poor wittle victim and you are the big, mean guy. "She's sowwy and you are breaking up the family by not eating the **** sandwish she handed you! How awful of you to actually expect her to experience consequences of choosing to spread her legs! Look at how your choice to divorce is hurting the kids!" Hmmm...the kids didn't cross her mind while she was flirting with a man other than their father, did they? The well-being of the kids didn't cross her mind as she planned sexual meetups, did it? The best interests of the children didn't cross her mind as she broke up their home and screwed up their lives, did it? But yep, it's you, not her.


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative have you told the other man's wife yet?


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative have you told the other man's wife yet?


I haven't been able to find her yet. They are a younger family so they rent, rather than own, so there are no real estate records and she isn't on his facebook page. They are also foreign so no marriage records etc in the US. 

I have only one friend who knows both of them, but he tells me that I should wait until after the divorce so that I don't turn my soon-to-be-ex against me and create a painful divorce. I actually called him yesterday to ask for her contact info and he talked me off the ledge- it's important advice when so much money is at stake.

So I'll hold off until the ink is dry.


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## Sfort

You need to get over the money dilemma. You've allowed the money to get to you. Wife or no wife, that attitude doesn't serve you well over time. What is the cost of happiness?

There are men here who have said their divorces were very expensive, and that it was the best money they ever spent. Start focusing on happiness and not so much on money.


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## EastCoastNative

Affaircare said:


> I would recommend mediating what you can, writing down what you both agree to, and then having separate attorneys review it. Bear in mind that an attorney's job is not only "to give you the best legal advice" but also "to increase billable hours" so they are likely to push something like "...you can get way more than this if we fight..." hence more hours for them. If you both have attorneys you somewhat trust, have them review the agreement, give input, and write the agreement. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Get the deal while the getting is good. 50/50 legal and phyiscal custody is the standard, so I'm glad both of you agreeable. Regarding the house, let me ask you this: what would you do if your wife suddenly passed away? You'd still have to work and still have to figure out how to care for your kids all on your own. THAT is what you do now! You will have them at least half the time on your own, so as the father, there's no reason you and the kids don't keep the marital, family home (to keep their lives as consistent as possible) and she goes ahead and finds her own housing with her credit and the amount per month she's going to receive. See...single moms have raised kids for decades and somehow they did it! You can too. Let's say you are c-level in your career and that means late nights. Okay...get a aupair or nanny. Or have the kids go to after-school care during your week. Or have them go to "lessons" or "sports" and you pick them up at practice. Gotta leave to the office at 6am? Cool figure out a carpool where you pay your portion of gas for other "moms" to do the driving. See what I mean? You can do this!
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to encourage you on something. It is not YOU who changed their lives!! Don't do that to yourself. Your wife committed ADULTERY! She was hoping that she could emasculate you and you'd accept her infidelity, and she's sad/upset that you aren't just letting her eat cake! And what she is doing is classic DARVO--have you heard of that? It stands for "Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender." First is to deny what is as plain as day. Just DENY. Insist it didn't happen; gaslight. Next, if denial doesn't work, then attack the victim. Deflect blame. ANYTHING to avoid admitting what they did was wrong--but primarily, emotionally assault the one who's been betrayed. Next, if denial and attacking don't work, make the offender "the victim" and the victim "the offender." See, her ACTIONS over the course of YEARS were a decision over and over again to do what she KNEW would kill her marriage and family--and THAT is what is going to harm your kids. You and the kids are the victims here. Were you perfect? No. But you and the kids are the injured parties, injured by her CHOICES and ACTIONS. She is the offender. But...she is going to try to reverse that so she's the poor wittle victim and you are the big, mean guy. "She's sowwy and you are breaking up the family by not eating the **** sandwish she handed you! How awful of you to actually expect her to experience consequences of choosing to spread her legs! Look at how your choice to divorce is hurting the kids!" Hmmm...the kids didn't cross her mind while she was flirting with a man other than their father, did they? The well-being of the kids didn't cross her mind as she planned sexual meetups, did it? The best interests of the children didn't cross her mind as she broke up their home and screwed up their lives, did it? But yep, it's you, not her.


Just wanted to say thanks. So many wonderful, encouraging points in that post.


----------



## lifeistooshort

The whole "you're giving up on us" thing is common among cheaters who are desperate to hold on. Many of us heard it....my ex gave me the whole "you're throwing away our life together" too.

Sure, I threw it away. Not him by keeping his trash ex gf around our entire 13 years together....I threw it away by dumping him.

Your wife is just like every other cheater out there.

As far as the money goes just pay what it costs...it's the price of getting your life back. You'll be fine...you have ongoing earning potential and eventually her alinony/cs will run out. Her side **** won't look so good when she's struggling, and the poster who pointed out that her parents will be furious that she lost a high earner over a cheap **** is correct. My family is Russian and this will not be seen favorably.

The ultimate winner here will be you and your kids will be fine. Guaranteed your kids didn't enter into any of her thoughts when the other guy was complimenting her so it's not like she has their best interest in mind. Be done with this trash.


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## Beach123

Livvie said:


> Holy **** she's gonna be getting 9k a month from you?
> 
> Holy ****.


she would likely get way less if you get her to start working and earning an income!
If she has so much time for dance classes and cheating etc - she has plenty of time to work work work!


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## Evinrude58

You were duped. She was only using you for a meal card, green card, and immigration engine. She cheated on you for 3 years-that you know of. As said, adults don’t talk about how they’re going to f one another, then have meetups, and talk about the weather. They have rough, crazy monkey sex.
She was different in her words to him that she ever was with you….. That’s because as someone said, it was all acting with you.
You’re just a mule for her.

My advice is this: dwhatever it takes to get out of this with the best financial situation possible. If possible after, don’t support her parents citizenship. Why? Because she used you for it. They used you for it. Stop allowing yourself to be used by these people. Don’t let them use your best qualities- honor, compassion, generosity….. against you, which is exactly what you’ve allowed these users to do. Once they have what they need, none of these users will giveTinker’s damn about whether you live or die. If they are good actors and pretend they do, give them an Oscar and send them on their way.
Stop your pattern of putting everyone else first and yourself last, or it will be the same in your next relationship. 

I would not reward lies, betrayal, and deceit with a pathway to citizenship. Our country doesn’t need people like your wife. You’ll have given them all much more than they deserve by the completion of this divorce.

Remenber, you were used by an actress that cared no more for your life and your good qualities than some other wealthy, lonely man that could be easily taken advantage of.

Stop being used. Everything she and they say is done in an effort to use you as a mean to an end.I personally wouldn’t want to Knowingly continue that role.


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## EastCoastNative

Update on my situation. Having a real hard time pulling the trigger due to kids. Considering post-nup to buy me time to figure it out. My lawyer tells me that it's exactly the same as negotiating a divorce settlement, but you don't file for divorce until you're ready. This way, if/when we do divorce, it's just simple paperwork with no fighting (because we do the fighting now). And if somehow we work it out, it just doesn't matter.

It's just burning me up inside thinking about being with my kids 50/50. However, I also hate the idea of being in a post-nup marriage- it will just always feel like divorce is around the corner. It's really only these two options, though- post-nup and stay, or leave now. There is no scenario where I just stay with no protection.

She's still being perfect. I know it's temporary, but if I have a post-nup I can stay until it wears off. That does feel a little icky though because it makes her seem more like a slave ("serve me or I leave"), which I really don't like. 

Just really torn.


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative - i understand how you feel - look at from a positive side

1- you do the paperwork now - means will save you money - (correct me here, Post nup means she will not take your money or alimony is that correct?)
2- you spend more time with your kids
3- find out more if it was physical 
4- she betrayed you behind your back for years now the game is in your hands. and yes let her be a salve for her husband and kids. she was a salve for a married AP
5- take time to settle and think and save money - and play it smarter. for your sake and kids sake. 
6- make her confess more and do a Poly 
7- look at it as you moved to Ritz Carlton with a butler - your focus should be on winning with the least damage on your side. 
8- DO NOT HAVE SEX with her. period


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative - i understand how you feel - look at from a positive side
> 
> 1- you do the paperwork now - means will save you money - (correct me here, Post nup means she will not take your money or alimony is that correct?)
> 2- you spend more time with your kids
> 3- find out more if it was physical
> 4- she betrayed you behind your back for years now the game is in your hands. and yes let her be a salve for her husband and kids. she was a salve for a married AP
> 5- take time to settle and think and save money - and play it smarter. for your sake and kids sake.
> 6- make her confess more and do a Poly
> 7- look at it as you moved to Ritz Carlton with a butler - your focus should be on winning with the least damage on your side.
> 8- DO NOT HAVE SEX with her. period


I hear you. Yeah my lawyer sells it to me as just pre-agreeing the terms of the divorce. She'll still get a lot, but less than if we went to court and spent $200k on a lengthy battle. It mainly freezes time today so that if I take a year or two to work on it and it doesn't work out, she doesn't get 2 more years of wealth from me.

I honestly don't care to know whether it was physical. I'm assuming it was and that's enough for me. That's my decision that I'm faced with. I don't want to know any more, I'm just assuming the worst and deciding whether I can survive the worst. She's adamant that it wasn't, but I don't trust her at all so I don't care.

The only thing that gives me any hope is that she's entirely different right now (not just in terms of whether she's being with other guys, she's actually treating me like I matter), so if that ever wears off we can have a simple paperwork divorce thanks to the post-nup.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> I hear you. Yeah my lawyer sells it to me as just pre-agreeing the terms of the divorce. She'll still get a lot, but less than if we went to court and spent $200k on a lengthy battle. It mainly freezes time today so that if I take a year or two to work on it and it doesn't work out, she doesn't get 2 more years of wealth from me.
> 
> I honestly don't care to know whether it was physical. I'm assuming it was and that's enough for me. That's my decision that I'm faced with. I don't want to know any more, I'm just assuming the worst and deciding whether I can survive the worst. She's adamant that it wasn't, but I don't trust her at all so I don't care.
> 
> The only thing that gives me any hope is that she's entirely different right now (not just in terms of whether she's being with other guys, she's actually treating me like I matter), so if that ever wears off we can have a simple paperwork divorce thanks to the post-nup.


she is displaying an act, and this act will continue for a while until she feels safe then revert. why didnt she do that until you found about her affair?
she is just afraid to lose her financial stability, parents and how people look at her. this is her time to flip that table on you one day to say it was your fault for the divorce and it is not about the affair so be careful. 

and you know she is lying, no guy would spend even a month with a married woman if he didnt get something.


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## Sfort

EastCoastNative said:


> I also hate the idea of being in a post-nup marriage- it will just always feel like divorce is around the corner.


I heard a statistic, I believe from Dave Ramsey, that the failure rate of marriages with prenups is 95%. I'm sure the postnup numbers are the same or worse.


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## EastCoastNative

So as you can tell from my postings about the post-nup, I spent the past couple days seeing if I could try to make it work. I was actually away from the house during those days, on a short business trip and thought I was getting clarity. Got home yesterday and it all just washed right back in- the reminder of how awful she was to me. She did a lot of this during covid when I was working from home, and I remember the days she would leave and tell me she was going to a specific place, then smile on her return etc, when it was the meetups that she was doing. 

I just don't see how I'll ever forgive. I'm back to thinking about full divorce again. Just really stuck!


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> st don't see how I'll ever forgive. I'm back to thinking about full divorce again. Just really stuck!


you are going that route either way and whatever decision you make it is the right decision. if you post-nup not going to save you significant amount of money such as keeping the house for yourself. 

Yes, the feeling sucks and it will get worse. what worse when the feeling goes away then you get these triggers. 

on positive side, you will find someone better and new experience


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> you are going that route either way and whatever decision you make it is the right decision. if you post-nup not going to save you significant amount of money such as keeping the house for yourself.
> 
> Yes, the feeling sucks and it will get worse. what worse when the feeling goes away then you get these triggers.
> 
> on positive side, you will find someone better and new experience


Yeah agree, post-nup is realistically no different than whatever the divorce settlement will be. It was just an attempt to stop the clock while we see if we can make it work.

All I know right now, is that I'm about a month into this and the only time I'm happy is when I'm mentally "divorcing". Sure there is uncertainty and a little fear over the future, but it's not debilitating at all.

Whenever I'm thinking about staying I am deeply, deeply everything- sad, angry, lonely, scared, and more.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> Yeah agree, post-nup is realistically no different than whatever the divorce settlement will be. It was just an attempt to stop the clock while we see if we can make it work.
> 
> All I know right now, is that I'm about a month into this and the only time I'm happy is when I'm mentally "divorcing". Sure there is uncertainty and a little fear over the future, but it's not debilitating at all.
> 
> Whenever I'm thinking about staying I am deeply, deeply everything- sad, angry, lonely, scared, and more.


It is not easy for sure. in fact, I'm mad and pissed for you as well. 
and the way you feel because you have dignity and being a true man that do not accept these kind of behaviors, strong enough to say f no.

some men on this form are weak and let their spouse step all over them and the first thing they do is reconcile "oh i love her, I cant live without her" 

same thing goes for women, some are strong and some are insecure. 

the only treatment for a cheater is leaving - anything else will step over you or think even less.
"how can this man stay after i slept with another guy" 

kids will grow and learn that this act is not tolerable, and if it happened to them to stay strong. if you stay you teach them to keep suffering and adapt to pain. 

I Know you said you dont care to know if it was physical or not, but it is good to have that as evidence, something to show your kids in the future so your ex doesnt twist her story to them or to your friends. she will easily tell kids your dad easily gave up on us because I had a guy friend.... things after a year or two gets twisted. having that evidence is good thing


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## EastCoastNative

So here's where I'm stuck. I just can't get over the betrayal. Knowing that she was doing meetups during the time that I was working from home during covid, which should have otherwise been an amazing time in our marriage because I was home more than ever before, really hurts. The way she would leave with a smile on her face explaining that she was just going to look at tile for our kitchen project (the project was for her, not for me), then text to him about "don't worry, he was on calls all day for work so he didn't notice". Seeing messages about using talking about our kids' gymnastics class as a cover story for the one time a friend of theirs saw them in the park (they had 10-15 messages about what the brochure said, checked the website, etc in case the other friend asked why they were in the park near the dance class). Knowing that they started going to a further away park after nearly getting caught at the park near the dance class. And these are just the 6 months of messages that I saw; I'm sure the other 2 freaking years of messages would destroy me.

That said, actually filing for divorce is the hardest effing thing in my life. I feel like I'm ready to move on. But I still can't over the feeling that I'm destroying the kids by leaving. I know she did it, not me. But I can't imagine what split custody looks like. It's going to be so freaking dark to bring the kids to my new empty house 10-15 days per month. Hiring a nanny on what little money I have leftover each month after the monster child support. I'm actually thinking about maybe asking for less custody- her house will be their normal life: mom, grandparents, friends down the street. Maybe I just start with every other long weekend- pick them up from school on friday and go from there.

She's of course still being perfect, which doesn't help. The ones where the wayward spouse argues or waffles seems like the easier call; she fully accepts everything she did (although I know she's still holding some truth back). Which makes me feel more like a monster for leaving.

So I'm still stuck.


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative 

I'm sorry you are going though this. I hope you just listen to me and try it

1- your brain will always think the worst, it will always portrait a dark gray future when you are sad, depressed, hurt and low energy. it is always not the case and it is always much much better
2- you will not be satisfied even after divorce until you know the full truth. find the full truth and whether it was physical or not. get a poly. once you know the full truth you will have a concrete or harden the concrete you are standing on when you move on in either direction. 
3- asking her to take over more days for custody means you pay more in support. so dont, spend that money to be with your kids more
4- your house doesnt have to be empty. an empty house for kids is when the father is sad and not energetic. an empty house can be the most fun for kids if the dad makes fun and being involved.
5- try your best to take the house - even if you ask for 50/50 custody. her parents can visit and baby sit for you. they are their grandparents and you helped them with immigration paper. thats the least they can do. 
6- lastly, find the whole trust. if she F him then how many times. etc...


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative if she didnt F the guy or went physical, kissing etc (really very slim chance) ....
then may be both of you can work on the relationship and recover from this stage

find all evidence, recover messages, ask to take a poly. speak to other man's wife and get her input. 

even talk to the guy on a phone and threaten him that you would tell his wife if he doesnt confess. make him feel that you know everything


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## EastCoastNative

I guess I just don't understand why knowing more is going to change anything. The betrayals that I saw are betrayal enough to destroy this relationship. What I'm saying is that, even if it wasn't physical, I don't think I deserve to be married to someone who can so coldly lie like that to her spouse, and for so long. She is useless when it comes to technology but managed to learn how to disable whatsapp backups (6 months into the relationship, or else I wouldn't have seen as much as I did). Yet if I ask her to do most minor thing it's all "oh I don't know how, you'll have to do it". To me this means that the relationship got more serious beyond the stuff that I saw, and the stuff that I saw is killing me.

I guess I'm also a little scared that the poly will prove that they didn't have intercouse, because then I'm really going to have a hard time leaving even though it's the other stuff that makes me want to leave.


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative What I'm thinking is that if it didn't go physical you can possible numb the pain and continue the relation until kids are older or you feel that you are in better place financially and mentally. may be save money on the side. 

if it was physical now you can move forward with strong feet and not regretting your decisions. 

also you didnt mention what I saw. did she send nudes to him?


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative What I'm thinking is that if it didn't go physical you can possible numb the pain and continue the relation until kids are older or you feel that you are in better place financially and mentally. may be save money on the side.
> 
> if it was physical now you can move forward with strong feet and not regretting your decisions.
> 
> also you didnt mention what I saw. did she send nudes to him?


I didn't see any of that, but I just mean the texts I saw, things like:
-talking about how to lie to me about it (proving that she knew it would hurt me and did it anyway)
-messages from him talking about how he wished he lived closer, and she replied saying "yeah me too"
-messages from her after their park meetups saying "oh you wanted more" and he replied "you know i did" with heart emojis etc
-message from him saying she has "magic hands" (which she says was due to a massage she gave him on a park bench)
-message from her saying "husband was on calls, he didn't notice me leave and hasn't asked"
-message from her saying "i felt guilty afterwards but I'm getting better about it"

That's just what I saw (around 200 texts), then she figured out how to turn off her backup history and I can only assume it got worse after that. She told me that they got more sexual in nature after that point, and that there were more meetups in public. But she's still adamant that it never went physical, I only sort of believe her. When I drilled down on whether they kissed, she got lawyerly about it instead of just saying no, which is how I know they did (but only the amount that would be appropriate in public). I sort of believe that they didn't meet in private. But only sort of.


Also separately on child support, do you know if that's true in NY state? My attorney indicated that child support is a formula that makes no mention of custody (25% of pre-tax income for 2 kids, regardless of custody percentage), and when I google it, I seem to come out with the same result. Of course I'll ask the attorney but trying to keep attorney fees down right now until I make a decision.


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## Openminded

People beat polys every day — they aren’t fool-proof — so her taking one would never be 100% conclusive. If you’re having sex with her you need to rethink that. Of course she’s being perfect now since her life’s on the line. She never wanted a divorce.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> I didn't see any of that, but I just mean the texts I saw, things like:
> -talking about how to lie to me about it (proving that she knew it would hurt me and did it anyway)
> -messages from him talking about how he wished he lived closer, and she replied saying "yeah me too"
> -messages from her after their park meetups saying "oh you wanted more" and he replied "you know i did" with heart emojis etc
> -message from him saying she has "magic hands" (which she says was due to a massage she gave him on a park bench)
> -message from her saying "husband was on calls, he didn't notice me leave and hasn't asked"
> -message from her saying "i felt guilty afterwards but I'm getting better about it"
> 
> That's just what I saw (around 200 texts), then she figured out how to turn off her backup history and I can only assume it got worse after that. She told me that they got more sexual in nature after that point, and that there were more meetups in public. But she's still adamant that it never went physical, I only sort of believe her. When I drilled down on whether they kissed, she got lawyerly about it instead of just saying no, which is how I know they did (but only the amount that would be appropriate in public). I sort of believe that they didn't meet in private. But only sort of.
> 
> 
> Also separately on child support, do you know if that's true in NY state? My attorney indicated that child support is a formula that makes no mention of custody (25% of pre-tax income for 2 kids, regardless of custody percentage), and when I google it, I seem to come out with the same result. Of course I'll ask the attorney but trying to keep attorney fees down right now until I make a decision.


Honestly based on these messages got physical and more. 

sorry bud you are going through this

at this point do what financially is good for you only, not her or the kids. just you


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## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> When I drilled down on whether they kissed, she got lawyerly about it instead of just saying no, which is how I know they did (but only the amount that would be appropriate in public). I sort of believe that they didn't meet in private. But only sort of.


If she can’t be truthful, honest, and open with you now, there is a high probablitly that she is not truly remorseful about this and will do it again (if they every actually stopped).

I know this is hard and expensive but are you willing to be around her knowing that you can’t trust her?

As for the kids, what would you tell them to do if they were in this situation? Think about that and then model it for them.

Infidelity hurts a lot more people than just the couples involved (kids included). There’s no way for you to control that no matter the path chosen.

No one can tell you what to do here, but it seems to me that you’re fearful of doing what you know is the right thing. Divorce. Don’t let fear be the controlling factor.

The post-nup option sounds like a way to delay the inevitable and give her a chance to keep being perfect around you Thereby making it harder for you. I wouldn’t do that. Either reconcile or divorce. It’s your call. And indeed the timing is your call too. But don’t make it harder on yourself by delaying the inevitable.


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## Jimi007

Your never going to know the full story. 
If you stay together , you will never trust her.
It will eat at you like cancer.
Why be a glutton for punishment ? 

Divorce and move on . F. The post nup.
Why even bother ? 
You already know who she is


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## EastCoastNative

Great advice all. Thanks. I agree- you're saying what I need to hear. Even in my mind, the post-nup is really just a delay tactic, I can't imagine ever getting over this. And I love the advice that the post-nup is only going to make it harder, not easier. Just yesterday I dusted off the saved chat history to remind myself why I'm so mad- as time passes you start to forget, but then seeing it again reminds me how truly awful she is.

So it's really just down to (a) happy kids + miserable dad (which might cause them to be unhappy anyway), or (b) happy dad and disrupted kids (not guaranteed unhappy kids, depends on how we do as co-parents). Wife not even part of the equation I don't care about her at all at this point.

Fear is 100% driving my decision-making right now. I can't imagine what it's going to be like to care for kids on weekdays as I've spent 8 years in a traditional family, but I know so many people do it so it has to be possible. We have the grandparents living in the area so they can get them off the bus and watch them until I get home, and for free really. They can even watch them at the soon-to-be ex's house and then drive them over to me at 6:00 or 6:30 on my nights, and I can drive them to the bus stop in the mornings.


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## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> So it's really just down to (a) happy kids + miserable dad (which might cause them to be unhappy anyway), or (b) happy dad and disrupted kids (not guaranteed unhappy kids, depends on how we do as co-parents). Wife not even part of the equation I don't care about her at all at this point.


Yes, I agree with this assessment.

The point I would add to about (a) is that kids will pick up on your unhappiness. I just don't see any way around that unless you and she are able to shut down any negative emotions entirely. That sounds tough. And heaven forbid she goes off and does it again, then you right back to square one and been unhappy the whole time .

As for fear, I tend to solve that by 1 simple (minded?) principle. Do the right thing today. And then tomorrow do it again, and again, etc. When the inevitable bad things come, you won't look back and wonder if you did the right thing. Even if it's hard and goes sideways... you know you did the right thing. Just make your choice based on the best available knowledge and don't look back, don't regret.


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## ButtPunch

EastCoastNative said:


> Great advice all. Thanks. I agree- you're saying what I need to hear. Even in my mind, the post-nup is really just a delay tactic, I can't imagine ever getting over this. And I love the advice that the post-nup is only going to make it harder, not easier. Just yesterday I dusted off the saved chat history to remind myself why I'm so mad- as time passes you start to forget, but then seeing it again reminds me how truly awful she is.
> 
> So it's really just down to (a) happy kids + miserable dad (which might cause them to be unhappy anyway), or (b) happy dad and disrupted kids (not guaranteed unhappy kids, depends on how we do as co-parents). Wife not even part of the equation I don't care about her at all at this point.
> 
> Fear is 100% driving my decision-making right now. I can't imagine what it's going to be like to care for kids on weekdays as I've spent 8 years in a traditional family, but I know so many people do it so it has to be possible. We have the grandparents living in the area so they can get them off the bus and watch them until I get home, and for free really. They can even watch them at the soon-to-be ex's house and then drive them over to me at 6:00 or 6:30 on my nights, and I can drive them to the bus stop in the mornings.


Whatever you decide, you cannot let fear be your guide!


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## Cynthia

ButtPunch said:


> Whatever you decide, you cannot let fear be your guide!


Letting fear lead doesn't end well.

I'm glad that you aren't going to go back on your word to your wife's parents. That would be cruel. This would also damage your relationship with your children. They would certainly find out that their beloved grandparents are in jail because you went back on your word. I'm glad you have no intention of doing such a thing.

How are your in-laws supporting themselves? You are counting on them for childcare, but don't they need at least one of them to have a job?

Post nups are notorious for not holding up. I certainly wouldn't count on one. Why not divorce her now? This would put your wife in a position that she would be facing very real consequences for her behavior. You could list requirements for her to make amends and resolve her character issues. If you were satisfied that she was repentant, after a period of a couple of years, you could try again. If you decide to remarry, you would have a prenup. All things considered, divorce seems to be the best option.

Rather than keeping your house, why not suggest to your wife that you all move to a more affordable location, as you have been wanting to do? It will be a big change for the kids, but they are still little. In the long run, this could be a much better move for all of you. You could find homes within the same school district or close to a private school. It would be difficult at first, but the children would get used to their new homes and adjust.

[Edited to correct spelling error.]


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## re16

Be a strong example for your kids... show them that honesty, morals, and character are important. You don't do that by staying with a cheater and have a sham marriage. You do that by divorcing her.

I know you are waffling, but if you don't leave her and you attempt to forgive things that you don't even fully know what you are forgiving... reality will set in down the road, you'll constantly think and wonder about this stuff, and she'll have zero respect for you. Staying with her is a lose lose scenario for you and for your kids.

You need to push through this difficult part and move on with your life without her. The marriage is over. She ended it, long ago.


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## ArthurGPym

EastCoastNative said:


> I didn't see any of that, but I just mean the texts I saw, things like:
> -talking about how to lie to me about it (proving that she knew it would hurt me and did it anyway)
> -messages from him talking about how he wished he lived closer, and she replied saying "yeah me too"
> -messages from her after their park meetups saying "oh you wanted more" and he replied "you know i did" with heart emojis etc
> -message from him saying she has "magic hands" (which she says was due to a massage she gave him on a park bench)
> -message from her saying "husband was on calls, he didn't notice me leave and hasn't asked"
> -message from her saying "i felt guilty afterwards but I'm getting better about it"
> 
> That's just what I saw (around 200 texts), then she figured out how to turn off her backup history and I can only assume it got worse after that. She told me that they got more sexual in nature after that point, and that there were more meetups in public. But she's still adamant that it never went physical, I only sort of believe her. When I drilled down on whether they kissed, she got lawyerly about it instead of just saying no, which is how I know they did (but only the amount that would be appropriate in public). I sort of believe that they didn't meet in private. But only sort of.
> 
> 
> Also separately on child support, do you know if that's true in NY state? My attorney indicated that child support is a formula that makes no mention of custody (25% of pre-tax income for 2 kids, regardless of custody percentage), and when I google it, I seem to come out with the same result. Of course I'll ask the attorney but trying to keep attorney fees down right now until I make a decision.


Adults have sex when they get together. Your wife and this guys were not fumbling teeenagers groping and doing heavy petting. They had sex many times. She's lying through her borscht-stained teeth.


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## EastCoastNative

Cynthia said:


> Letting fear lead doesn't end well.
> 
> I'm glad that you aren't going to go back on your word to your wife's parents. That would be cruel. This would also damage your relationship with your children. They would certainly find out that their beloved grandparents are in jail because you went back on your word. I'm glad you have no intention of doing such a thing.
> 
> How are your in-laws supporting themselves? You are counting on them for childcare, but don't they need at least one of them to have a job?
> 
> Post nups are notorious for not holding up. I certainly wouldn't count on one. Why not divorce her now? This would put your wife in a position that she would be facing very real consequences for her behavior. You could list requirements for her to make amends and resolve her character issues. If you were satisfied that she was repentant, after a period of a couple of years, you could try again. If you decide to remarry, you would have a prenup. All things considered, divorce seems to be the best option.
> 
> Rather than keeping your house, why not suggest to your wife that you all move to a more affordable location, as you have been wanting to do? It will be a big change for the kids, but they are still little. In the long run, this could be a much better move for all of you. You could find homes within the same school district or close to a private school. It would be difficult at first, but the children would get used to their new homes and adjust.
> 
> [Edited to correct spelling error.]


Really nice post, thanks. Regarding the in-laws, they are currently in the phase of the citizenship process where they can't leave the country and are not allowed to work. Honestly it costs very little to support them right now, realistically just extra food. Once they receive work authorization, the father will start driving uber or something similar until his english is strong enough to consider doing what he used to do, which was b2b sales. They are around 58 years old so they won't work forever, but they are very fit and active so I'm sure they'll be fulltime members of the kids lives for a long time. Even health insurance isn't that expensive- the insurance exchange in our state is very liberal with respect to both citizenship status and income level so it's basically free.

If we divorce, my child support obligation would cover the house, the utilities, and everyone living in the house ($4.6k mortgage, $7kish child support but might grow to $9k or $10k based on increased income this year and next). Part of this is because I do well financially, but the other part is because I always kept us living a modest lifestyle even as I experienced success in my career. She recently convinced me to open the purse strings and we were about to do a giant project on the house to the tune of $500k, ironically received the architect's plans on the same day that I discovered the affair. But since we didn't do it, it's just a modest house on a strong income. Sore spot but she also begged for a new kitchen and then she used tile shopping as one of her cover stories when she left the house to meet the AP while I was working at home. I spent probably 30+ hours of my own time handling a lot of that project, and it really was only for her as I liked the old kitchen just fine. Will always be a sore spot for me.

Interestingly over the past ~4 weeks since d-day I've been doing additional introspection on my desire to live elsewhere. It really was her. She became one of the "Real Housewives of [this area]", like many of the wives in this town, so I wanted to just get away from the entire scene. That said, there are plenty of really nice people around, and if you drive 20 minutes in any direction it's not like this, so if I do date I'm sure I can find non-"Real Housewives". So I think I might stay. Also my job is here, is in person, and is very hard to replace in its current phase.

In terms of cost I'm not sure we'll save much by moving due to high interest rates now, compared to our 2.6% 30 year fixed. I just can't help but think that the house is going to provide a lot of stability for the kids- we have a traditional neighborhood where the kids just leave out the back door to play with friends then come back for dinner. I would hate to tear them away from that. I'd rather they be there with their friends and grandparents.


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## Young at Heart

EastCoastNative said:


> ......She and I spoke about splitting assets over the weekend. The guilt is really weighing on her so she's offering to take a pretty reasonable settlement and promises not to fight me. 50/50 custody works for her. *The numbers are still big so I burn up inside when I think about it, but it's a lot less than half so it's better than it would be if we went to court.*
> 
> I can tell she's still approaching it with hope, though, so it could turn quickly the moment it sets in that I'm leaving.
> 
> Separately, I had an awful weekend emotionally. *Very hard being with the kids right now, knowing their lives are about to wildly change. Makes me feel guilty for not being able to swallow my pride and stay,*.......


She knows she was caught. She is trying to appear to good and reasonable. *Don't feel sorry for her.*



EastCoastNative said:


> ,,,,,I have only one friend who knows both of them, but *he tells me that I should wait until after the divorce so that I don't turn my soon-to-be-ex against me and create a painful divorce.* .....





EastCoastNative said:


> .....*Having a real hard time pulling the trigger due to kids.* ....
> 
> *It's just burning me up inside thinking about being with my kids 50/50.*......
> 
> She's still being perfect. I know it's temporary....


It is good that you understand that the version of her you are seeing is an illusion. You know it is temporary and you don't trust her. Those are good things.



EastCoastNative said:


> ......I honestly don't care to know whether it was physical. *I'm assuming it was and that's enough for me.* That's my decision that I'm faced with. *I don't want to know any mor*e, I'm just assuming the worst and deciding whether I can survive the worst. She's adamant that it wasn't, but *I don't trust her at all so I don't care......*


There is a tendency in most things to "overthink" a situation and become frozen in inaction. There is absolutely no reason to learn all the details, you know enough to figure out what happened. Besides, as you has said you "don't trust her" so why would you trust any explanation. In the big picture of things, it really doesn't matter what lube they used or his favorite position. All that matters is you know she stopped being committed to you and her marriage.



EastCoastNative said:


> ..... I was actually away from the house ...... on a short business trip and thought I was getting clarity. *Got home yesterday and it all just washed right back in- the reminder of how awful she was to me*.......
> 
> I just don't see how I'll ever forgive. I'm back to thinking about full divorce again....





EastCoastNative said:


> .........*the only time I'm happy is when I'm mentally "divorcing"*. Sure there is uncertainty and a little fear over the future, but it's not debilitating at all.
> 
> Whenever I'm thinking about staying I am deeply, deeply everything- sad, angry, lonely, scared, and more.





EastCoastNative said:


> So here's where I'm stuck. * I just can't get over the betrayal.* .....
> 
> That said, actually filing for divorce is the hardest effing thing in my life. I feel like I'm ready to move on. But I still can't over the *feeling that I'm destroying the kids by leaving*. I know she did it, not me. But I can't imagine what split custody looks like. It's going to be so *freaking dark to bring the kids to my new empty house 10-15 days per month.* Hiring a nanny on what little money I have leftover each month after the monster child support. I'm actually thinking about *maybe asking for less custody- her house will be their normal life: mom, grandparents, friends* down the street. Maybe I just start with every other long weekend- pick them up from school on friday and go from there.
> 
> *She's of course still being perfect,* which doesn't help. The ones where the wayward spouse argues or waffles seems like the easier call; *she fully accepts everything she did* (although I know she's still holding some truth back). Which makes me feel more like a monster for leaving....





EastCoastNative said:


> ......I don't think I deserve to be married to someone who can so coldly lie like that to her spouse, and for so long....


Marriage requires commitment to marriage by both partners. For years your "wife" was not committed to the marriage. The details of what happened are not going to change her attitude toward marriage and making a home for the family she had. She not only cheated on you, she cheated on her family (children and parents). She lived a lie.



EastCoastNative said:


> .....on child support.... My attorney indicated that child support is a formula that makes no mention of custody (25% of pre-tax income for 2 kids, regardless of custody percentage), and when I google it, I seem to come out with the same result. Of course I'll ask the attorney but trying to keep attorney fees down right now until I make a decision....


Focus on your children and the life you want them to have. If she is feeling guilty and acting supportive, talk to your attorney about using some of the marital assets that would normally be split between you and her and getting them tied up into a trust for your kids, or their education. She might even agree to it. It never hurts to ask.

Again, focus on the future. Don't obsess about her past text messages. Visualize you living a happy life without her and your having great times with your kids. Start figuring out things you can do with your kids; just you and them. Go for bike rides, swimming, jogging, hiking, museums, etc. Start to focus on them. They will be grateful in the long run.



EastCoastNative said:


> .....Interestingly over the past ~4 weeks since d-day I've been doing additional introspection on my desire to live elsewhere. It really was her. She became one of the "Real Housewives of [this area]", like many of the wives in this town, *so I wanted to just get away from the entire scene.* That said, there are plenty of really nice people around, and if you drive 20 minutes in any direction it's not like this, *so if I do date I'm sure I can find non-"Real Housewives"*. *So I think I might stay. Also my job is here, is in person, and is very hard to replace in its current phase.*
> 
> ....the *house is going to provide a lot of stability for the kids*- we have a traditional neighborhood where the kids just leave out the back door to play with friends then come back for dinner. I would hate to tear them away from that. I'd rather they be there with their friends and grandparents.


Again, focus on the future. Focus on your kids. Visualization is a powerful tool in getting control of your life.

Your posts sound like you a moving slowly toward divorce. If that is your decision, don't be suprised if your W's attitude changes toward you. Remind her that neither of you want to harm your children and that being civil about whatever happens is best for everyone.

Good luck.


----------



## Beach123

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


she’s not sorry she did it - she is sorry she got caught. There’s a big difference!

she wants her lifestyle you pay for! Tell her to go get a job now! It really irks me when women that stay home (and the man pays for everything) think that cheating is A-OK.

Let her work work work! See how she likes trying to earn a living! She had plenty of time to cheat - so she’s got plenty of time to work!!!


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## EastCoastNative

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated. No movement yet, have been meeting with a therapist to help me try to unstick this decision but I don't find therapy all that helpful. The first therapist never really said anything, so I switched to another one and she is supportive, but still not much more than lending an ear. I'm not sure if therapy is really doing much for me.

Unfortunately, my wife shares what her therapist tells her and I've actually asked her to stop telling me. Her therapist thinks I'm overreacting and that I need medication because it's not normal to be so distraught. The only way this makes sense is if my wife is downplaying the relationship to her therapist, because I don't understand why this wouldn't be the normal reaction to finding the mother of your children and the love of your life having a second life for 2.5 years.

Anyway, I've been able to get her to speak a little more each day about what the settlement and post-divorce life would look like. When we talk about post-divorce life it sends her spiraling, which makes me feel pretty good actually- it's probably a sliver of what I've been feeling for the past ~month but it's nice to see some realization on her face that her actions led to this outcome.

I don't know if she'll change but she's being reasonable when we discuss custody, alimony, child support, and cash payments. I don't sugar coat it- I tell her that we're discussing it either for post-nup or for divorce, with divorce being the more likely route. 

She did ask for one reasonable thing that I am pondering- in NY there is "legal separation" and "divorce", with legal separation being very, very similar except you can keep accruing social security and you can stay on the health insurance. Since we're only a few months short of 10 years, which is a magic year for social security benefits etc, she asked that we do legal separation first then divorce in a year or so, but we'll live divorced right away. She hasn't talked to a lawyer so this isn't coming from a legal perspective, so I'll obviously vet it first, but it doesn't offend me offhand.


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## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> Thanks for the comments, much appreciated. No movement yet, have been meeting with a therapist to help me try to unstick this decision but I don't find therapy all that helpful. The first therapist never really said anything, so I switched to another one and she is supportive, but still not much more than lending an ear. I'm not sure if therapy is really doing much for me.
> 
> Unfortunately, my wife shares what her therapist tells her and I've actually asked her to stop telling me. Her therapist thinks I'm overreacting and that I need medication because it's not normal to be so distraught. The only way this makes sense is if my wife is downplaying the relationship to her therapist, because I don't understand why this wouldn't be the normal reaction to finding the mother of your children and the love of your life having a second life for 2.5 years.
> 
> Anyway, I've been able to get her to speak a little more each day about what the settlement and post-divorce life would look like. When we talk about post-divorce life it sends her spiraling, which makes me feel pretty good actually- it's probably a sliver of what I've been feeling for the past ~month but it's nice to see some realization on her face that her actions led to this outcome.
> 
> I don't know if she'll change but she's being reasonable when we discuss custody, alimony, child support, and cash payments. I don't sugar coat it- I tell her that we're discussing it either for post-nup or for divorce, with divorce being the more likely route.
> 
> She did ask for one reasonable thing that I am pondering- in NY there is "legal separation" and "divorce", with legal separation being very, very similar except you can keep accruing social security and you can stay on the health insurance. Since we're only a few months short of 10 years, which is a magic year for social security benefits etc, she asked that we do legal separation first then divorce in a year or so, but we'll live divorced right away. She hasn't talked to a lawyer so this isn't coming from a legal perspective, so I'll obviously vet it first, but it doesn't offend me offhand.


_Definitely_ run that past a lawyer. 10 years is a magic number for other things too depending on the state. I'm not sure about NY.

Therapists...Your mileage may vary. Some of them are idiots. I had one that I generally liked but she couldn't see past the surface issues.


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## Openminded

I seriously doubt your wife’s therapist is getting the real picture. Why would she say what she did? It benefits your wife to downplay what she did and to keep you in her pocket. Therapists usually want you to reach your own decision as to how it will play out while they give you support on how to proceed. If you ask, they may say what they think you should do but they might not volunteer that.


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## Beach123

At the ten year mark does she also get spousal support for a longer term? Check on that one.

notice she wants everything to HER benefit?
You better be looking out for YOUR best interest!


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## farsidejunky

EastCoastNative said:


> I appreciate all the comments. The only one I slightly disagree with is her parents- if I pull my support for their citizenship application, they can never be in the US again and will likely be jailed upon return to Russia for attempting to emigrate. I hate her right now, but I don't hate them. They are realistically going to raise my children during the week when she's busting her butt working a 9-5. They are making it a million times easier for me to leave because I know that my kids won't be going home to an empty house after school.
> 
> Agree with everything else though. I will say- for the first 5-6 years of marriage it felt perfect. Like a true, deep in-love marriage. I agree though now- it's not that anymore and will never be again.


I'm a bit late to this thread, but I really like your principled stance here.

Often times when we are betrayed, we can be so busy looking for retribution that we become that which we despise.

Don't be that guy. Don't do anything that will lead you to loathe your reflection in the bathroom mirror. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

EastCoastNative said:


> I hear you. Yeah my lawyer sells it to me as just pre-agreeing the terms of the divorce. She'll still get a lot, but less than if we went to court and spent $200k on a lengthy battle. It mainly freezes time today so that if I take a year or two to work on it and it doesn't work out, she doesn't get 2 more years of wealth from me.
> 
> I honestly don't care to know whether it was physical. I'm assuming it was and that's enough for me. That's my decision that I'm faced with. I don't want to know any more, I'm just assuming the worst and deciding whether I can survive the worst. She's adamant that it wasn't, but I don't trust her at all so I don't care.
> 
> The only thing that gives me any hope is that she's entirely different right now (not just in terms of whether she's being with other guys, she's actually treating me like I matter), so if that ever wears off we can have a simple paperwork divorce thanks to the post-nup.


Is she? Just a few short days ago, wasn't she telling you how you are at fault for driving her to her affair?

Wake up, sir. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

EastCoastNative said:


> I guess I just don't understand why knowing more is going to change anything. The betrayals that I saw are betrayal enough to destroy this relationship. What I'm saying is that, even if it wasn't physical, I don't think I deserve to be married to someone who can so coldly lie like that to her spouse, and for so long. She is useless when it comes to technology but managed to learn how to disable whatsapp backups (6 months into the relationship, or else I wouldn't have seen as much as I did). Yet if I ask her to do most minor thing it's all "oh I don't know how, you'll have to do it". To me this means that the relationship got more serious beyond the stuff that I saw, and the stuff that I saw is killing me.
> 
> I guess I'm also a little scared that the poly will prove that they didn't have intercouse, because then I'm really going to have a hard time leaving even though it's the other stuff that makes me want to leave.


What do her actions tell you?

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## farsidejunky

EastCoastNative said:


> I guess I just don't understand why knowing more is going to change anything. The betrayals that I saw are betrayal enough to destroy this relationship. What I'm saying is that, even if it wasn't physical, I don't think I deserve to be married to someone who can so coldly lie like that to her spouse, and for so long. She is useless when it comes to technology but managed to learn how to disable whatsapp backups (6 months into the relationship, or else I wouldn't have seen as much as I did). Yet if I ask her to do most minor thing it's all "oh I don't know how, you'll have to do it". To me this means that the relationship got more serious beyond the stuff that I saw, and the stuff that I saw is killing me.
> 
> I guess I'm also a little scared that the poly will prove that they didn't have intercouse, because then I'm really going to have a hard time leaving even though it's the other stuff that makes me want to leave.


This says you are still in partial denial. You KNOW what happened. The details of HOW it happened are irrelevant. 

Radical acceptance of this situation is what will start you on the right path. 

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## EastCoastNative

Moved it forward today. Really wanted just to file for divorce with an attorney so that I can move on, but since she's being reasonable I decided to try mediation first to see if maybe we can get to a reasonable result; this particular mediator comes recommended to me by a coworker who recently divorced. The mediator handles everything including all filings, with the exception of a final review by an attorney. 

Most importantly, the mediator will start with a "stop time" agreement that has the same effect as if I filed divorce that day- all income stops accruing as of that date, and I can move out. We have our initial consultation on Wednesday then hopefully by next week I'm able to start the process of moving out of the house.

Separately, or perhaps relatedly, our 8 year old came home in tears today saying that she's heard us fighting for the past month and is really nervous that we're going to get a divorce. Of course it broke me down too, but it only strengthened my resolve to get out of the situation. The sooner I can stop time, the sooner I can get my own place in a way that won't harm my case. I have literally nowhere to go right now other than a hotel which is not something I'm interested in doing. 

I know this whole thing is going to be so freaking hard on the little ones, it breaks my heart that my awful wife did this to them.

Here's a tidbit from the past 2.5 years; these keep me going. About a year ago I was approaching an inflection point in my career where I just wanted to take 6-12 months off and find myself, and had the finances arranged to do so. When I brought it to my wife, I explained that we could hang out every day, go to fitness classes together, actually raise the kids together, I was expecting her to say "wow that's going to be amazing!". Instead, I got "well, I don't want to change my standard of living. I don't want to change the classes that I currently do and I don't want to have to change the way we spend money because you need a break". 

This cheating is the best thing to ever happen to me. Just feel terrible for the girls


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## BeyondRepair007

EastCoastNative said:


> Instead, I got "well, I don't want to change my standard of living. I don't want to change the classes that I currently do and I don't want to have to change the way we spend money because you need a break".


That is a real gem for a STBXW you have. At least she was showing you her colors then to help strengthen you now.



EastCoastNative said:


> This cheating is the best thing to ever happen to me.


That's hard to say but is the truth.

It sounds like you're doing great with the right attitude about it all.

And those poor girls
There's just not a good way to soften that blow. For you or them. 

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel, albiet it is a long tunnel. And you're showing them the right way to behave if (heaven forbid) their husbands ever treat them like your wife did you.


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## Beach123

Good! You just do what’s best to take care of your future/your kids future!
Your wife can be left to figure out her own stuff!
she is one spoiled wife!

when I set up my home - post divorce - so that it was a peaceful and happy place to be…my kids never went back to stay at their dads place. Set it up so that things are predictable, consistent and happy. That will be best for them.

And don’t speak unkindly of their mother - it hurts their heart. Speak to others about it when they can’t hear - but never in front of the kids.


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## Rob_1

EastCoastNative said:


> Moved it forward today.


Based on your explanations of things, I conclude that this is the best forward path for you. I understand that there are some men that have the stomach to remain with a woman that gave her emotions, her soul, her body to other (s). Obviously that's not you. if you were to stay it would eat at you day after day until your soul is a shadow of who you were. I can understand how you feel for your daughters, but remember you did not do this... your wife did.


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## blackclover3

Please make sure you tell the other man's wife and provide her with all evidence.


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## EastCoastNative

Beach123 said:


> Good! You just do what’s best to take care of your future/your kids future!
> Your wife can be left to figure out her own stuff!
> she is one spoiled wife!
> 
> when I set up my home - post divorce - so that it was a peaceful and happy place to be…my kids never went back to stay at their dads place. Set it up so that things are predictable, consistent and happy. That will be best for them.
> 
> And don’t speak unkindly of their mother - it hurts their heart. Speak to others about it when they can’t hear - but never in front of the kids.


Really nice post thanks. Especially regarding talking about the ex with the kids.



blackclover3 said:


> Please make sure you tell the other man's wife and provide her with all evidence.


I googled him for a while and just couldn't find her. I have one acquaintance who knows her name but he is refusing to give the name because he personally doesn't want to get involved. They were married outside this country and they rent here, so there are just no easily accessible public records on them. I only know the man's name and the town they live in (since I saw messages about my wife driving to that town for meetups), but it's a super specific name and still gives no hits. STBXW won't give me the name because she doesn't want her actions to destroy another family.

As upset as I am about all of this, I'm not going to hire a private investigator or expend any divorce negotiation capital just to get revenge. It's not healthy for me to pursue this. If I manage to get her name or contact info, I'll send her a note (or maybe I'll just forward her this forum post), but I don't have a desire to go nuts in finding her.


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## Cynthia

If OM is on Facebook, you can check his friends and see who his wife is. Even if he has his friend's list hidden, you can go through his posts and look for tags and comments that might show who is his wife is.


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## EastCoastNative

Cynthia said:


> If OM is on Facebook, you can check his friends and see who his wife is. Even if he has his friend's list hidden, you can go through his posts and look for tags and comments that might show who is his wife is.


He's not really on facebook. He has a business-oriented account only, and that account didn't have any tags or friends with women having a similar last name. I assume he uses apps geared more towards foreigners since he's Russian too. I caught all the affair through whatsapp, which is big in the expat communities.


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## gameopoly5

EastCoastNative said:


> He's not really on facebook. He has a business-oriented account only, and that account didn't have any tags or friends with women having a similar last name. I assume he uses apps geared more towards foreigners since he's Russian too. I caught all the affair through whatsapp, which is big in the expat communities.


I`ve mentioned this on another thread and will again, which may help your situation.
Going back to the 1970s in the UK I was married to my then first wife.
We had a home and 2 young children together, I was working long hours and she was a stay at home mum.
We used to have our ups and downs as most married couples do but nothing serious.
7 years into the marriage I arrived home from work one evening and she was gone with the kids, including with all her stuff. On the table was a note simply saying, I`ve left you. She went to her parents home a few miles away.
I didn`t know what hit me or why. My wife flatly refused to communicate with me. Then she filed for divorce claiming mental cruelty, which was a favourite excuse at the time advised by her lawyer.
When the divorce was finalised she was awarded the home, full custody of our two children and I was stung for child support and given visitation rights to our kids on her terms. The court bailiffs got me out of the house and I ended up alone living in a bedsit.
After all this happened I discovered she had dumped me for a lover who she moved into what was our marital home after she got me off the scene and later neighbours told me my wife had been screwing with guys in our marital bed while I was at work. This is why she stopped communicating with me until the divorce was finalised. Ironically 8 years later the lover dumped her and she asked me to marry her again. By that time I had moved on, married another woman and my reply to her ended with the word, off.
Here is my point in telling you all this:
Unlike you this all happened to me prior to the days of the internet and cell phones and had no ways of checking what she was up to and who with, including I was young and inexperienced and got a lot of bad advice from my lawyers at the time. Also my wife`s lover was not married and had no ammunition to use against him.
Glad you are taking action before you arrive home to an empty house one day with a, I`ve left you note on the table.
Good luck to you my friend.


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## blackclover3

gameopoly5 said:


> I`ve mentioned this on another thread and will again, which may help your situation.
> Going back to the 1970s in the UK I was married to my then first wife.
> We had a home and 2 young children together, I was working long hours and she was a stay at home mum.
> We used to have our ups and downs as most married couples do but nothing serious.
> 7 years into the marriage I arrived home from work one evening and she was gone with the kids, including with all her stuff. On the table was a note simply saying, I`ve left you. She went to her parents home a few miles away.
> I didn`t know what hit me or why. My wife flatly refused to communicate with me. Then she filed for divorce claiming mental cruelty, which was a favourite excuse at the time advised by her lawyer.
> When the divorce was finalised she was awarded the home, full custody of our two children and I was stung for child support and given visitation rights to our kids on her terms. The court bailiffs got me out of the house and I ended up alone living in a bedsit.
> After all this happened I discovered she had dumped me for a lover who she moved into what was our marital home after she got me off the scene and later neighbours told me my wife had been screwing with guys in our marital bed while I was at work. This is why she stopped communicating with me until the divorce was finalised. Ironically 8 years later the lover dumped her and she asked me to marry her again. By that time I had moved on, married another woman and my reply to her ended with the word, off.
> Here is my point in telling you all this:
> Unlike you this all happened to me prior to the days of the internet and cell phones and had no ways of checking what she was up to and who with, including I was young and inexperienced and got a lot of bad advice from my lawyers at the time. Also my wife`s lover was not married and had no ammunition to use against him.
> Glad you are taking action before you arrive home to an empty house one day with a, I`ve left you note on the table.
> Good luck to you my friend.


I cant imagine the pain and torture you had been through, I'm sorry to hear about this and I'm sorry for your kids. 
this is a lesson for everyone

good job on the "off" and moving on strong. I wish you all the best


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## EastCoastNative

So I'm in a bit of a pickle. Met with a mediator yesterday, went well I think we'll use her services. Won't be super quick but should save us tons of time vs. a disputed divorce.

However, my mental state has declined when I'm home, not sure why but I'm just so angry/depressed now when I'm around her to the point of anxiety and short of breath; it's like it's D-Day week all over again. It doesn't help that we don't have any guest room space since her parents live in it, so we're still even sleeping in the same bed. 

As we have kids I think it's important that I try to avoid the home until this cools, but I've seen so many things online that say that men should never leave the house during a divorce until it's final so as not to hurt the custody hearings. Does anyone have any insight on that?

I'm thinking just to go get a hotel for the weekend just to try to decompress somewhere else.


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## Cynthia

EastCoastNative said:


> So I'm in a bit of a pickle. Met with a mediator yesterday, went well I think we'll use her services. Won't be super quick but should save us tons of time vs. a disputed divorce.
> 
> However, my mental state has declined when I'm home, not sure why but I'm just so angry/depressed now when I'm around her to the point of anxiety and short of breath; it's like it's D-Day week all over again. It doesn't help that we don't have any guest room space since her parents live in it, so we're still even sleeping in the same bed.
> 
> As we have kids I think it's important that I try to avoid the home until this cools, but I've seen so many things online that say that men should never leave the house during a divorce until it's final so as not to hurt the custody hearings. Does anyone have any insight on that?
> 
> I'm thinking just to go get a hotel for the weekend just to try to decompress somewhere else.


Going away to decompress is a good idea, but you can try to make arrangements for when you are home. Could you take turns sleeping on the couch?
It's a good idea to start looking for a permanent place for you where you can take the kids with you. It's bad to leave the house and not take your children, but if you agree on custody, you can implement it and start taking the kids during your time. That way you have not deserted your children, which will be much better for their peace of mind and for your custody agreement.


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## sideways

Letting this OW know isn't about getting "revenge". She deserves to know the truth for crying out loud. Just as you deserved to know the truth as well.

I hope you have a change of heart about this and do what you have to do to track her down. Once you pass this info on to her what she decides to do with it is up to her (but you'll know you did the right thing).


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## EastCoastNative

sideways said:


> Letting this OW know isn't about getting "revenge". She deserves to know the truth for crying out loud. Just as you deserved to know the truth as well.
> 
> I hope you have a change of heart about this and do what you have to do to track her down. Once you pass this info on to her what she decides to do with it is up to her (but you'll know you did the right thing).


So I actually have an update here. I found someone yesterday via googling that is 90% likely to be her, and the internet listing had an email address. Since I wasn't 100%, I sent her a message from a spare email account (one I use for IOT stuff, not identifiable to me), asking "are you married to [XYZ]? If so, I just wanted to let you know that I'm divorcing my wife because of a relationship she had with him for the past 2.5 years. I don't want to force this on you, so feel free to reply to me if you want more information but I won't bother again if you don't."

It's just hard to find russian renters in the US, especially because they don't always take the same last name when they marry so it could be anything. If they bought a house it would be easier since it would be public record. I found her by putting in the town name that I saw my wife drive 40 minutes to a meetup for, plus his last name. Lo and behold, two names popped on the apartment address, same unit. So I'm 90% sure, unless it's a former tenant of the unit.



Cynthia said:


> Going away to decompress is a good idea, but you can try to make arrangements for when you are home. Could you take turns sleeping on the couch?
> It's a good idea to start looking for a permanent place for you where you can take the kids with you. It's bad to leave the house and not take your children, but if you agree on custody, you can implement it and start taking the kids during your time. That way you have not deserted your children, which will be much better for their peace of mind and for your custody agreement.


I've been nervous to sleep on the couch only because of the kids- don't want them to see it yet until we figure out how to tell them. I might set up an air mattress in the basement and act like it's camping, just be silly about it. Right now the best thing we've come up with is that she slips into a kids bed at night after they fall asleep but then she ends up sneaking back at like 4am because she says it was too hard to sleep without me. I really just want to remove myself from the house but don't want to hurt the custody situation (which I doubt will be a problem- she doesn't want 100% because she knows it'll hurt the kids).


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## Livvie

Why don’t you have an atty draw up an interim agreement so you can move forward moving on and out in a way that won't hurt you?


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## Hopeful Cynic

EastCoastNative said:


> I've been nervous to sleep on the couch only because of the kids- don't want them to see it yet until we figure out how to tell them. I might set up an air mattress in the basement and act like it's camping, just be silly about it. Right now the best thing we've come up with is that she slips into a kids bed at night after they fall asleep but then she ends up sneaking back at like 4am because she says it was too hard to sleep without me. I really just want to remove myself from the house but don't want to hurt the custody situation (which I doubt will be a problem- she doesn't want 100% because she knows it'll hurt the kids).


Oh, that is unsustainably painfully bad on everything for you. No wonder you're a wreck. Even if you put an air mattress on the floor of the master bedroom to get one of you out of the bed that would be an improvement. Maybe have it on the opposite side of the bed as the door if possible, so the kids can't easily see it. If she slips in at 4am, she can take the air mattress. If she gets in bed with you anyway, you can get out and use the mattress.

Oh boo hoo, clearly, it's not too hard for her to cheat on you, sleeping without you is much less of a challenge. What she means is, it's too hard to tempt you to stay with her when you're not in the same bed.


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## jlg07

EastCoastNative said:


> I just got from her "it's so sad that you gave up on us". Trying to put the blame on me for walking away. This is getting evil!


I hope you laughed at her --- YOU gave up on the marriage? Tell her to look in a mirror....


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## jlg07

EastCoastNative said:


> So it's really just down to (a) happy kids + miserable dad (which might cause them to be unhappy anyway),


Something else to think about -- if you pick A, what kind of example are you showing your kids about how a marriage should be? You being distant from your wife, no closeness, etc.. Do you REALLY think the kids would be happy?


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## Beach123

Boy, she cheats and you are trying to find the couch/air mattress to sleep on? Why?
Send her out of the bedroom! SHE is the one cheating!
And stop trying to sugar coat her affair to your kids… just tell it like it is - Mommy is focused on someone else now - not focused on being my wife.

you seem to be helping her cover it up - stop that.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> So I actually have an update here. I found someone yesterday via googling that is 90% likely to be her, and the internet listing had an email address. Since I wasn't 100%, I sent her a message from a spare email account (one I use for IOT stuff, not identifiable to me), asking "are you married to [XYZ]? If so, I just wanted to let you know that I'm divorcing my wife because of a relationship she had with him for the past 2.5 years. I don't want to force this on you, so feel free to reply to me if you want more information but I won't bother again if you don't."
> 
> It's just hard to find russian renters in the US, especially because they don't always take the same last name when they marry so it could be anything. If they bought a house it would be easier since it would be public record. I found her by putting in the town name that I saw my wife drive 40 minutes to a meetup for, plus his last name. Lo and behold, two names popped on the apartment address, same unit. So I'm 90% sure, unless it's a former tenant of the unit.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been nervous to sleep on the couch only because of the kids- don't want them to see it yet until we figure out how to tell them. I might set up an air mattress in the basement and act like it's camping, just be silly about it. Right now the best thing we've come up with is that she slips into a kids bed at night after they fall asleep but then she ends up sneaking back at like 4am because she says it was too hard to sleep without me. I really just want to remove myself from the house but don't want to hurt the custody situation (which I doubt will be a problem- she doesn't want 100% because she knows it'll hurt the kids).


kick her out the bedroom and lock the doors - and raise hell if sleeps next you. 
bud, the only reason she is on her behavior not for you but for her parents immigration work. 
honestly, if it was me, I would've rejected the sponsorship - do you want to bit that they know about the other man before you?


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## Vorpal

keep a voice activated recorder with you at all times, or download a voice recording app to your phone. You are ripe for a false accusation of spousal abuse.


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## Cynthia

Your kids already know that something is wrong. By not telling them, you are not controlling the narrative in their heads. Kids come up with all sorts of things to fill in the blanks, including thinking they are somehow at fault or doing something wrong. The ideas that kids come up with often stay with them for life. Do some reading about how to tell your kids about your divorce, then tell them asap. They need to know. You need to be able to comfort them and let them know that you will always be there for them. They need to know that this is 100% between you and your wife, and they didn't do anything to cause this. Mommy decided that she wanted to see another man and that's not how marriage works, so you will have to get a divorce. Don't trash her or try to turn the children against her, but they need to know it's not that you simply fell out of love or decided that it wasn't working. That gives kids all sorts of wrong ideas about marriage and family. I know a lot of people would not do this, but I would tell the kids that their mother broke the marriage and you are getting a divorce. Get some family counseling to get through it, but make sure the counselor will back you in making this about adultery. Kids need to know that marriage should not be easily broken and that the divorce is the result of marriage breaking behavior. Your wife probably won't own up to this, but she should. She should also apologize to the children.

She's a real piece of work saying she can't sleep without you next to her. Tell her to get one of those body pillows and put an electric blanket on it, since she's treated you like a piece of the furniture.


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## DownByTheRiver

This wasn't a citizenship marriage for your wife, was it?


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## EastCoastNative

DownByTheRiver said:


> This wasn't a citizenship marriage for your wife, was it?


Nah she already had a green card when we started dating and naturalized to a full citizen a couple years into our relationship, unrelated to our marriage.



KindBuddha said:


> Tell her parents they need to find another place to live ASAP/immediately because their lovely daughter cheated on you for 2.5 years and you need to move into the guest room. YOUR guest room. I really hope you have been charging them a fair amount of rent.


I'm fully supporting them financially, so if I charge them rent, I'm charging myself rent. If I ask them to leave, our marital assets will be paying for it. We're still discussing what the split will be in terms of marital assets and she's currently being cooperative to the point where it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face to try to dip into her share for rent. They won't be able to work for another few months until their work authorization comes in.



Cynthia said:


> Your kids already know that something is wrong. By not telling them, you are not controlling the narrative in their heads. Kids come up with all sorts of things to fill in the blanks, including thinking they are somehow at fault or doing something wrong. The ideas that kids come up with often stay with them for life. Do some reading about how to tell your kids about your divorce, then tell them asap. They need to know. You need to be able to comfort them and let them know that you will always be there for them. They need to know that this is 100% between you and your wife, and they didn't do anything to cause this. Mommy decided that she wanted to see another man and that's not how marriage works, so you will have to get a divorce. Don't trash her or try to turn the children against her, but they need to know it's not that you simply fell out of love or decided that it wasn't working. That gives kids all sorts of wrong ideas about marriage and family. I know a lot of people would not do this, but I would tell the kids that their mother broke the marriage and you are getting a divorce. *Get some family counseling to get through it*, but make sure the counselor will back you in making this about adultery. Kids need to know that marriage should not be easily broken and that the divorce is the result of marriage breaking behavior. Your wife probably won't own up to this, but she should. She should also apologize to the children.
> 
> She's a real piece of work saying she can't sleep without you next to her. Tell her to get one of those body pillows and put an electric blanket on it, since she's treated you like a piece of the furniture.


That's our next step right now. I've been shopping for housing and also pushing for family counseling as I want/need objective help in how to minimize the damage on the kids as we navigate this. Had a rough night last night for exactly the reason you describe; the fact that I'm leaving hits her in waves and last night it hit her hard so she wouldn't leave me alone and basically made it impossible for me to sleep. If I knew what I was walking into last night I would have stayed in a hotel.

I live in a very high cost of living area and I'm just trying to get a place for myself that my kids can stay at too. It's not easy but I'm working on it. I don't want to rush out and go get an apartment that costs more per month than a house 5 times larger. This would all be so much easier if I had family around. Nearest family is 2 hours away, which can work for weekends but not weekdays as I work in an office.


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## Cynthia

EastCoastNative, I'm sorry that your cheating spouse has messed up your life. Her meltdown shows that she is much more concerned with herself than she is with you and that she is not repenentant. Don't let her make it look like you are the problem with the kids. If she is begging for your attention and you are rebuffing her, they will think you are being mean to her. They have to know that she caused this. It is common for the offender to make the betrayed look like the problem. I'm not saying to bad mouth her or try to make her look bad to the kids. I'm saying they should know that she did something terrible and this is the result, otherwise it could damage your relationship with them permanently. Your wife can recover her relationship with the children, if she owns her part in this and apologizes to them for breaking up the family. They will forgive her, if she does that. Make sure you find a counselor who will support this. Again - not bashing her to the kids.

Have you discussed both of you moving to a cheaper area, so your lifestyles won't be so negatively impacted by all this? She must know that there will be consequences to her actions. If she can own that, it will be better for everyone.

It shouldn't be difficult for a PI to find the AP's wife. You can have your attorney contact her.


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## ArthurGPym

OP have you been practicing The 180?


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> Nah she already had a green card when we started dating and naturalized to a full citizen a couple years into our relationship, unrelated to our marriage.
> 
> 
> I'm fully supporting them financially, so if I charge them rent, I'm charging myself rent. If I ask them to leave, our marital assets will be paying for it. We're still discussing what the split will be in terms of marital assets and she's currently being cooperative to the point where it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face to try to dip into her share for rent. They won't be able to work for another few months until their work authorization comes in.
> 
> 
> That's our next step right now. I've been shopping for housing and also pushing for family counseling as I want/need objective help in how to minimize the damage on the kids as we navigate this. Had a rough night last night for exactly the reason you describe; the fact that I'm leaving hits her in waves and last night it hit her hard so she wouldn't leave me alone and basically made it impossible for me to sleep. If I knew what I was walking into last night I would have stayed in a hotel.
> 
> I live in a very high cost of living area and I'm just trying to get a place for myself that my kids can stay at too. It's not easy but I'm working on it. I don't want to rush out and go get an apartment that costs more per month than a house 5 times larger. This would all be so much easier if I had family around. Nearest family is 2 hours away, which can work for weekends but not weekdays as I work in an office.


@EastCoastNative 
what did she do that night? 
have you tried to pull any new information from her?
how about the other man's wife?


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative what did she do that night? have you tried to pull any new information from her? how about the other man's wife?


 I reached out to OMs wife over email but she didn't respond. My civic duty is fulfilled. Separately, last night STBX just went overboard, wouldn't let me sleep plus added some more blame the victim, but then a few minutes later realized how wrong it was and stopped. For example she said "during that time did you even ask me how my day was?" and I immediately said "you know I've been begging you to talk to me for years, basically the whole time you've been out of the marriage". She responded "oh yes, of course, i'm so sorry i asked you that please forgive me". Yea she apologized immediately but it shows that those thoughts are still in her tiny little mind. She was nonstop trying to cuddle, hug, etc. I told her this morning that I will move out this weekend if she can't control herself. I'll go to an extended stay hotel if I have to.


ArthurGPym said:


> OP have you been practicing The 180?


 If "the 180" means that I act like I'm divorced, yes, at least I think so. I've not been engaging with her at all during the day, ignoring her texts etc, and when I go home from work I just ignore her around the house and do my own thing until nighttime. Aside from her trying to force herself on me last night it's been working ok. I didn't give in, I just couldn't physically get away from her. I know I need to move out it's just taking time. Hard to undo a 10 year life in a few weeks. Actually in additional drama last night her dad was read-ended in the car that I bought for him. Old me would have snapped into action, calling insurance, downloading dashcam vids, etc. I simply said "kids ok?" to which she replied "yes", then I replied "ok cool. the rest is up to you" and went upstairs to read a book. Later they both kept apologizing to me for damaging "my car" and my response was "it's your car, it's going to you in the settlement so I don't care what happens to it". In a few months none of it will even be in my name. I'm just so over this whole thing right now but frustrated with how slow these things move.


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## ArthurGPym

Here you go:

*The 180*

_1, Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes._

The 180 is the method to emotionally detach from your spouse and to make the transition to divorce easier.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> I reached out to OMs wife over email but she didn't respond. My civic duty is fulfilled. Separately, last night STBX just went overboard, wouldn't let me sleep plus added some more blame the victim, but then a few minutes later realized how wrong it was and stopped. For example she said "during that time did you even ask me how my day was?" and I immediately said "you know I've been begging you to talk to me for years, basically the whole time you've been out of the marriage". She responded "oh yes, of course, i'm so sorry i asked you that please forgive me". Yea she apologized immediately but it shows that those thoughts are still in her tiny little mind. She was nonstop trying to cuddle, hug, etc. I told her this morning that I will move out this weekend if she can't control herself. I'll go to an extended stay hotel if I have to. If "the 180" means that I act like I'm divorced, yes, at least I think so. I've not been engaging with her at all during the day, ignoring her texts etc, and when I go home from work I just ignore her around the house and do my own thing until nighttime. Aside from her trying to force herself on me last night it's been working ok. I didn't give in, I just couldn't physically get away from her. I know I need to move out it's just taking time. Hard to undo a 10 year life in a few weeks. Actually in additional drama last night her dad was read-ended in the car that I bought for him. Old me would have snapped into action, calling insurance, downloading dashcam vids, etc. I simply said "kids ok?" to which she replied "yes", then I replied "ok cool. the rest is up to you" and went upstairs to read a book. Later they both kept apologizing to me for damaging "my car" and my response was "it's your car, it's going to you in the settlement so I don't care what happens to it". In a few months none of it will even be in my name. I'm just so over this whole thing right now but frustrated with how slow these things move.


what did her parents say about the whole affair and cheating thing ? and what was their reaction and did they know about it?


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> what did her parents say about the whole affair and cheating thing ? and what was their reaction and did they know about it?


They didn't know about it and they were appalled, devastated, and angry. Her mom did tell her that she was treating me awful, even before the affair was discovered. And now that it's out, her mom really unleashed on her about how crappy she's been for so many years. Her mom even told her that over the past couple years she didn't even like being around my wife because she turned into a really snobby, disgusting person.



ArthurGPym said:


> Here you go:
> 
> *The 180*
> 
> _1, Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
> 5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
> 6. Do not ask for help from family members.
> 7. Do not ask for reassurances.
> 8. Do not buy gifts.
> 9. Do not schedule dates together.
> 10. Do not spy on spouse.
> 11. Do not say "I Love You".
> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
> 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
> 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
> 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> 23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
> 24. Be patient
> 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
> 26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
> 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
> 28. Be strong and confident.
> 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
> 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
> 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
> 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
> 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes._
> 
> The 180 is the method to emotionally detach from your spouse and to make the transition to divorce easier.


Yep I'm living this, nearly perfectly. Only thing is that I'm not doing it to try to get her to keep me, I'm legitimately leaving. Said another way, I don't need to act like I'm leaving. I'm done with this woman. I've agreed to couples counseling but made it clear that this is ONLY about figuring out how to co-parent without destroying the kids.

Went to look at a house today and it's promising. Needs a lot of work, which I'm very good at because my STBX made me do so much work on the house I'm leaving.


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## Cynthia

Excellent that her parents stood up for you and didn't enable her bad behavior. That's also good for your kids, because they aren't going to get a negative spin on you from their grandparents. It is much better for them to know the truth and be able to process it properly. The truth matters. When kids get a skewed story, it messed with their thinking and belief system.


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## ArthurGPym

EastCoastNative said:


> Yep I'm living this, nearly perfectly. Only thing is that I'm not doing it to try to get her to keep me, I'm legitimately leaving. Said another way, I don't need to act like I'm leaving. I'm done with this woman. I've agreed to couples counseling but made it clear that this is ONLY about figuring out how to co-parent without destroying the kids.


It sounds like you have your head on straight. Good on you. The nice thing about the 180 is it allows you to emotionally fortify and distance yourself without coming across as rude or passive aggressive.


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## LondonsCalling2022

So sorry to hear about this. Having gone through a divorce myself, it's heartbreaking to have someone you love betray you; however, staying with someone that you do not trust is far worse! 
It seems that you are doing all the right things and being petty or vengeful is never a good solution.

Good luck


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## blackclover3

@EastCoastNative hey bud, how is it going, how you feeling?
anything new with you


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## EastCoastNative

blackclover3 said:


> @EastCoastNative hey bud, how is it going, how you feeling?
> anything new with you


Thanks for checking in! I'm plowing forward. I'm under contract on a house about 5 minutes away from the current house, hope to close before the end of the month. We will have our first mediation session in a couple days but we've already signed a "stop time" agreement so that she has no claim to the new house.

She is fighting *hard* to try to get me to stay but I just physically can't stand her, can't even stand being in the same room. The crazy thing is that for the past couple years, she was so bad to me that I actually doubted myself, which is nuts because looking back I know that I was a really, really good husband and father. I'm the type of person to give all of myself to the relationship, not because I'm a doormat but because I enjoy it. And for the first ~6 years of the marriage she was the same. Then she lost it- went crazy for buying things, spending money, obsessing over what others had, and clearly, needing affirmation from another man even as her own was begging for her to return to the marriage (before I knew what was really going on).

I know this sounds wild, and maybe it's a euphoria that will wear off, but for the past couple weeks I've been happier than I remember being for a very long time. Of course, I'm going to miss the kids when they aren't with me but I'm also SUPER looking forward to spending time with them without her, because she was even ruining that for me. Money is going to hurt too but man, had I known how happy I could have been, I would have traded all my money for this feeling of happiness. I'm about 2 months out from D-Day but really it was more like the day I was set free.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Things will keep improving for you and don't fall for any of her acting like she cares etc. Don't trust her it's all an act. You're getting rid of the trash. Enjoy your children in your alone time with them. Just think of all the fun you can do with your children without the gremlin being there. She will probably plead and beg, force tears. Ignore ignore ignore. She belongs in the trash. You will eventually find someone a million times better. Wishing you and your children well. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## bygone

the cheating period is too long and you really shouldn't get married

someone who talks about being a good husband or father notices changes in his wife and checks his boundaries

You just became a doormat and did everything your wife wanted, her cheating was okay, you're lucky to even catch her.

I hope you live a good life

I will repeat it again, you are not suitable for a relationship. In therapy, focus on issues such as relationships and marriages, personal boundaries, etc. There must be a very thick wall between being a partner and being a doormat, you don't have that wall.


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## EastCoastNative

bygone said:


> the cheating period is too long and you really shouldn't get married
> 
> someone who talks about being a good husband or father notices changes in his wife and checks his boundaries
> 
> You just became a doormat and did everything your wife wanted, her cheating was okay, you're lucky to even catch her.
> 
> I hope you live a good life
> 
> I will repeat it again, you are not suitable for a relationship. In therapy, focus on issues such as relationships and marriages, personal boundaries, etc. There must be a very thick wall between being a partner and being a doormat, you don't have that wall.


A bit harsh no? Why do you think I thought her cheating was ok? 

The moment I found out, I moved out and dumped her. I work 50+ hours a week, I can't know what my stay-at-home spouse is doing at all times.


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## blackclover3

EastCoastNative said:


> A bit harsh no? Why do you think I thought her cheating was ok?
> 
> The moment I found out, I moved out and dumped her. I work 50+ hours a week, I can't know what my stay-at-home spouse is doing at all times.


ignore that guy mate, 

you are doing everything right, and you done well being a husband and a father. 

you are strong, determined, with high confidence and self-esteem. not a doormat 

you will also be happier and happier after you disconnect from her and focus on yourself and well being. 

if you like travel, I would take a solo trip to Europe and visit every museum and coffeeshop and learn more about myself. i would go hiking in Switzerland and spend time on the beach in Greece all by myself. 

you Kick Ass - good job


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## bygone

EastCoastNative said:


> A bit harsh no? Why do you think I thought her cheating was ok?
> 
> The moment I found out, I moved out and dumped her. I work 50+ hours a week, I can't know what my stay-at-home spouse is doing at all times.


I think that spouses are responsible for long-term cheating.

Your wife has been pretending to you for a long time, you must have noticed that. Being interested in or enjoying you while in a relationship with om is the role!

your wife didn't even try to hide it

You did not set any limits with her as a wife, except to meet her every wish.

you said it yourself

You acted in accordance with your wife's quality of life, expenses, wishes, even on the days when you were at home, she would go to om until the evening.


even his mother was disturbed by your wife's attitude!!!

she already knew that your wife was cheating on you. they move with you to secure their own situation after being caught

If you hadn't broken up with your wife you wouldn't be posting here and there wouldn't be anything to talk about anyway.


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## Gb85

EastCoastNative said:


> No discrete question in here, but would love to hear feedback. Thanks all.


Here’s my honest feedback. You sound like a gem. I’m a mid 30s woman also high 6-figure earner and when I knew my marriage wasn’t right, I had a kind, calm conversation and left. Didn’t look back. IMO you owe it to yourself to have that strength and a better future. What your wife has been doing these past few years indicates one simple truth to me: You two aren’t each other’s forever, or it never would have happened. In my case, I never had an affair but the day I said “wow, I see exactly why people have affairs, I couldn’t imagine never having anyone but my husband for the rest of my life”, was the day I had the integrity to be honest and leave him.


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## EastCoastNative

Gb85 said:


> Here’s my honest feedback. You sound like a gem. I’m a mid 30s woman also high 6-figure earner and when I knew my marriage wasn’t right, I had a kind, calm conversation and left. Didn’t look back. IMO you owe it to yourself to have that strength and a better future. What your wife has been doing these past few years indicates one simple truth to me: You two aren’t each other’s forever, or it never would have happened. In my case, I never had an affair but the day I said “wow, I see exactly why people have affairs, I couldn’t imagine never having anyone but my husband for the rest of my life”, was the day I had the integrity to be honest and leave him.


Thanks! I fully agree with your opinion re: leaving. It's been a little over three months and I'm through the lowest point. That first month was miserable as my world came crashing down, but lately my coworkers have been commenting on how happy I've been lately, not just in the past 3 months but even since before d-day.

Funny your comment about "wow, I see exactly why people have affairs". Same here. I never did it, never tried to, but during the couple years where she made me miserable I remember thinking roughly the same thing. The only reason I didn't have the guts to walk away was that I was too worried about hurting the kids, but once her affair came out it became unhealthy for the kids if I stayed. So you could say, the problem worked itself out. It's not that I didn't try to fix it- I tried everything. I sat her down numerous times over that period for frank discussions, but the existing spouse can never compete with the excitement of the affair partner, once the wayward goes that path.

Fingers crossed but I should be closing on my new house this week. She and I are on much better terms now that she accepts that I'm leaving. The only thing that still gives me pause is leaving the kids and leaving the house that I spent years building out, but none of that is enough to overcome staying married to her.


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