# Male insecurity



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

When you think you've been around the block enough times to have seen most everything there is to see, it's nice to surprised once in a while. That's happened recently here regarding male insecurity.

I've now seen many threads and many men recount how they're not comfortable with a woman who has a sexual past above their personal limit, whatever that is. Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. Men who think that deflowering a virgin is the whole brass ring. Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume. 

Is this appealing to the ladies? I'm not a girl, but if I were, I'd find this kind of man to be offputting in the extreme. I would want a man who knows what he is and what he isn't, with at least a modicum of confidence, even when he knows he's not the greatest stud on the planet or the prettiest pony on the lot. I'd want a man who trusts me to be his loving spouse, not one who fears that every six pack or less receded hairline is a Real And Present Danger to our marriage, or that every sock stuffed into a tight pair of jeans has me swooning for the hay loft. 

In short, were I a woman, I think I would find this level of insecurity to be a huge turnoff. Do I think wrong?


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

You forgot guys and the insecurity of a male OBGYN...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Malpheous said:


> You forgot guys and the insecurity of a male OBGYN...


That one will get you banned, so I avoid it altogether. But thanks for the reminder.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I've now seen many threads and many men recount how they're not comfortable with a woman who has a sexual past above their personal limit, whatever that is. Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. Men who think that deflowering a virgin is the whole brass ring. Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume.


I'm selectively ok with insecurities.The sex count,yeah I can see people being insecure about it and I'm ok with that.
The girls night out thing,eh,it's tough to make a judgment on men who are insecure about that one. I don't trust myself to go out with the girls to a bar or club so I can't expect him to trust me. The bigger equipment thing would be a TOTAL turn off.Don't go worrying your handsome little head over another man's junk.It's unattractive.

Refusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.If my options were getting an invasive surgery,staying on chemical birth control,or never having PIV w/him again I would pick never having PIV w/him again if he's too selfish for a minor operation.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There is a time for insecurity, and benefits. The time is when you're alone or in trusted company where you can discuss it. The benefit of mild insecurity is that it motivates you to learn and improve yourself - at least in ways where that is even possible.

Otherwise, confidence is usually the best face to put forward, and sometimes a little vulnerability has its place.

Insecurity can also come from mistrusting your partner, and that's the hardest to deal with, IMO.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Is this appealing to the ladies? I'm not a girl, but if I were, I'd find this kind of man to be offputting in the extreme. I would want a man who knows what he is and what he isn't, with at least a modicum of confidence, even when he knows he's not the greatest stud on the planet or the prettiest pony on the lot. I'd want a man who trusts me to be his loving spouse, not one who fears that every six pack or less receded hairline is a Real And Present Danger to our marriage, or that every sock stuffed into a tight pair of jeans has me swooning for the hay loft.
> 
> In short, were I a woman, I think I would find this level of insecurity to be a huge turnoff. Do I think wrong?



It's not appealing at all. I find confidence very attractive. I don't find insecurity an attractive trait in either gender. 

The men who post here aren't representative of the male cousins, brothers, uncles, I know. I've pointed out certain threads here to my male relatives and they've laughed at the paranoia, over the top posts that some make. People here are often the betrayed spouses, so they're very sensitive to interactions with the opposite sex. I understand that, but it carries over beyond the CWI section to other parts of TAM where infidelity isn't the issue in the marriage. 

I'm just glad I have a husband who doesn't need to monitor me and vice versa. I don't see red flags as often as others who post here do. When I hear hoofbeats, I tend to think horses. But the TAM crowd hears hoofbeats and thinks zebras!

I told a few close friends on TAM about something occuring in my real life that had I posted it here would have raised the "VAR him!...You need to hire a PI" type of response even though it's nothing like that. I know people here would see red flags in it. An older female neighbor of mine signed up for a recreational activity that my husband also does. She's years older than us. We don't interact with her at all, but I can see how some here would see it as some red flag. She just has the same background in this activity as my husband.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> I think this should be a good discussion.
> 
> Personally, I'm not real good with it. I've said before I'd be a horrible partner for someone with jealousy issues because I do have quite a bit of the "get over it" mentality when it comes to my past. I don't have the empathy required for that because I don't understand it.


I'm somewhat the same way. I understand jealousy, RJ and can empathize to a point, but after a certain period of time if there's no change at all despite my best efforts, I know I'll get to the point of saying "you need to get over this".


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

You know this will break into an Alpha/Beta thread sooner or later. To me the positive aspects of the Alpha traits simply boil down to confidence. My wife and I met at a professional conference. She first noticed me because she found me attractive. She became attracted to me because she saw my confidence. This is a huge attraction for her and it spills over from our professional lives to our personal lives. 

A few years ago, when our marriage bottomed out and I discovered her subsurface EA that had been going on for more than a year, I caved emotionally. In trying to recover the marriage I became needy, desperate and weak. It drove her further away from me and towards her AP. In short, it pretty much repulsed her. When people discuss the 180 or LMBT, this is a core principle to the theory. Show your spouse you are confident in your life, with or without them. I didn't do that initially, I clung on as most recently BSs do and that is absolutely the wrong thing to do. 

I put confidence in my signature line years ago when I found TAM. At the time, I had no idea of how powerful it would be in recovery.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).



HysterSisters.com said:


> However, some women, including those with no past history of depression or anxiety, feel sad after their hysterectomy. A woman's emotions are often based on her beliefs about the importance of her uterus, her fears about her health or personal relationships after a hysterectomy, and concerns about her enjoyment of sexual activities after surgery. Grieving the loss of childbearing ability is very common after a hysterectomy, even for those who never wanted to give birth, or who had previously felt their family was complete. In most cases, as a post-op hysterectomy patient’s physical healing progresses, and her life gradually gets back to normal, her feelings of sadness fade away. As time passes, she starts to feel “like her former self” again, and her emotional health returns to normal. However, those who experience a long-lasting, persistent low mood, should see their physician for a depression evaluation.


This is normal but a man feeling the same thing is insecure and weak.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).


Hypocrisy.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).


A hysterectomy isn't always a woman's choice so she has every right to feel that way. A vasectomy is something a man does to keep his wife from having a more invasive tubal. It's a man-up choice that makes him a bigger man than those who refuse to do it based on ejaculate amounts or whatever lame excuse they come up with. 

I would never call a man unattractive if he's feeling low after the snip. I'd call him unattractive for refusing to do it thus forcing his wife to undergo surgery or stay on chemical birth control til menopause.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This thread makes me feel insecure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> A hysterectomy isn't always a woman's choice so she has every right to feel that way. A vasectomy is something a man does to keep his wife from having a more invasive tubal.


:iagree:

I found it liberating. No more pills, condoms or IUDs to worry about. Sex became much more spontaneous. I didn't lose my mojo and my wife said there was no change in my volume of ejaculate or its taste.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, it is weak, but some women like men like that. Maybe it makes them feel cared about. 

And maybe we all define weak differently. I think a man who will not let his wife freely express her emotions is weak. Other people see allowing the expression of emotion as weak. We just have to agree to disagree.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I found it liberating. No more pills, condoms or IUDs to worry about. Sex became much more spontaneous. I didn't lose my mojo and my wife said there was no change in my volume of ejaculate or its taste.


Was this before or after she cheated on you?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I personally find a little insecurity to be endearing depending on how it's expressed. 

My DH recently admitted to being jealous of my phone. At first I was like "ick." and then he explained. "When we're home,I want you to be touching me and playing with me instead of your phone." 

He felt insecure and he trusted me enough to share it. I found his expression reasonable and endearing. I've made a solid effort to cut back on my phone usage at home now and I feel good about that.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

I would honestly never get a Vasectomy again. Not that anyone would really. I mean it's done. Right? But yeah... 

Call me jaded but here's the why. It's not the lame reason in the original post. 

About 4000 years ago when I was married to wife 1.0 doctors suggested she move off of birth control pills for various reasons. We tried an IUD, fail. Tried that sperm trampoline... You know. The cervix hat. My brain just went dead here. But that was a painful fail. Haven't lived till you knocked that lose with your Jimmy. But anyhow. Condoms just sucked in general. So on and so on. You know. So we talked about logic and I offered up some mild bruising a $400 tax to get out of the gene-pool. For about 12 years that was the best $400, bag of frozen peas not included, that I ever spent.

Fast-forward...

Turns out wife 1.0 was a cheating *****.

Now I'm with wife 2.0 and we'd love to have a child together. She' particularly interested in being pregnant and going through delivery. 

Want to guess the penalty I'm paying out for IUIs, IVFs and FETs because of that $400 tax payment? Forget the toll it's taking on my new marriage. I can also see some level of building resentment when my daughter is with us. 

So for me personally. If I were still intact and had today's knowledge. I wouldn't do it. But for sound reasons.

We all want to move along as though our marriages will last forever and that was my thinking at that time. But look around folks. We aren't here for the stories of perfection, are we?


AH HAH! Diaphragm! That's that trampoline thing I was trying to recall. We won't even discuss foams and sponges and spermicides.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Was this before or after she cheated on you?


The snip was 10 - 12 years prior to her EA.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Malpheous said:


> I would honestly never get a Vasectomy again. Not that anyone would really. I mean it's done. Right? But yeah...
> 
> Call me jaded but here's the why. It's not the lame reason in the original post.
> 
> ...


I not only willingly, but eagerly got snipped. I knew I didn't want any more kids, and also knew it was only a matter of time before my marriage was was going to legally end because it was already well on its way to being over. I knew I would be looking for a new partner at some point, and being snipped made it clear that I would not be having any more kids, so having that out of the way from the get go helped weed out the dating pool.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think it's absolutely pathetic how some threads here are loaded with men crying about the wife's previous lovers. I could not ever be with a man like that, no matter what he looked like, how much he made, or even if he voted for all the right candidates!

A woman never gets an elective hysterectomy now a days. A woman who gets a hysterectomy before menopause is complete has to deal with a hell of a lot more than a man who has a vasectomy, which is totally and always elective. Yes, some women mourn the loss of fertility, but it doesn't last long and it didn't prevent them from having the surgery. The loss of fertility in women is a sign of aging, which is also something of a hot button among women. Not so with a vasectomy with men. 

And in terms of GNO... If your man can't deal with another man wanting you, which doesn't mean he's gonna get you, you may as well put on a burka! Any woman can walk into any establishment and get laid, if that was what she wanted to happen. Men who control GNOs...would kind of end the marriage for me.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).
> 
> 
> 
> This is normal but a man feeling the same thing is insecure and weak.


:iagree:

And that's what confuses quite a lot of men. Not me, because I've learned quite a lot about women .
I understand_ my_ woman.

So how does the ordinary guy show strength and confidence today and tomorrow be the most warn , emotionally expressive , and vulnerable lover to a woman?

Answer,

Find an emotionally mature woman who isn't into manipulative games, who understands and loves you still, even at your most insecure, vulnerable,weakest point and you do the same for her.

Real love isn't based on attraction alone, and attraction isn't based on " being self confident " alone.
In fact most women aren't deeply attracted to men who are overly self confident. They want a man who they could connect with emotionally.
There must be something deeper than attraction to make a marriage or LTR work.

Emotional blackmail or threatening the loss of attraction if one spouse " appears insecure " because they might have concerns , to me, is a sign of emotional immaturity.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

After our son was born the vasectomy was my idea! I do not want any more kids! I have my moments of insecurity, but since starting my t shots those are few and far between! If my wife wants to go out with her friends I say go, call me if you need a ride. Me keeping her under lock and key will not keep her from straying. And if she's going to stray, I'd just assume she do it sooner rather than later. She will get caught! As far as past partners we have a don't ask don't tell policy (who counts once they're no longer teenagers anyways?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Caribbean Man said:


> So how does the ordinary guy show strength and confidence today and tomorrow be the most warn , emotionally expressive , and vulnerable lover to a woman?
> 
> Answer,
> 
> Find an emotionally mature woman who isn't into manipulative games, who understands and loves you still, even at your most insecure, vulnerable,weakest point and you do the same for her.


QFT!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Cletus said:


> That one will get you banned, so I avoid it altogether. But thanks for the reminder.


You got banned on that one? 

Did you ever determine if the whole thread was from a troll?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

larry.gray said:


> Did you ever determine if the whole thread was from a troll?


He was banned for being an ass hole.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> He was banned for being an ass hole.


So it was a potato / potâto difference?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

You know, I sometimes wonder if some of the extreme insecurity that gets played out on TAM threads is of the "this is an anonymous forum so I'm going to vent what I know better than to express to my wife" type. 

So I try to take it with a grain of salt. That being said . . . 

I find that sort of insecurity a definite libido killer. Why is it "threatening" to disclose that to my husband? I love him, but in the years when he was insecure, lacking in confidence, and overly reliant on my mood to determine his, my desire TANKED. 

I find it confusing that so many men have posted on TAM saying, "my wife won't tell me why she won't have sex with me." Oftentimes other posters agree that her lack of honesty is just terrible, a real betrayal of vows. Why can't she just SAY what the problem is? And so women like me step up and say, "Maybe your insecure behavior is a sexual turn off to her." 

A lot of men don't want to hear that, because they feel that love shouldn't be about her attraction. Well, the sort of love that men want and need IS about attraction. Men want women who want them . . . but they don't want to do the work to attract their wives.:scratchhead:

I can love my husband day in and day out, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be sexually attracted to him if his behavior (consciously or subconsciously) is a turn off. And eventually that loss of sexual attraction erodes the man's security even further, sending the couple into an endless spiral. Intimacy is damaged, emotional trust is damaged, resentments set in. Digging out of that hole is no easy matter; I can attest to it. So yes, sexual attraction, IMO, IS vital to a marriage in which sex is a need of one or both of the partners. 

The sort of insecurity that dictates complete annihilation of a previously healthy dynamic when details of a wife's sexual past come up (and I'm not talking about "I found out she was a hooker who only did guys with HUGE c0cks"), and places blame on the wife for not doing a better job of protecting her husband? Biggest turn off ever. 

For the record, my husband has those sorts of insecurities, owns them, and doesn't use them as an excuse for hurting our marriage. By the same token, I am sensitive to his feelings and avoid triggering him. But if he does trigger, he knows it's on him to master himself--with my help, if he asks for it. And, to me, that is ever sexier than the guy who never triggers in the first place.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I LOVE MY VAS!

It DID hurt when he did lefty. Its awkward as hell having no pants on and the nurse is coming and going. She sees 9999 c0cks a day. NOTHING special about mine. I got over it. Felt like the after affects of a BIG kick in the nuggets. Afterwards... Being driven home. I hurt... Felt like the afteraffects of a big kick in the nuggets 10 minutes ago but lasted a day. Got home. Crawled into bed and went to sleep. Had tight high balls for a week.

2 months later NO WORRIES! Worth it. HELL YEA! I love my kids but if I have another one I will sit in front of a train.

GNOs to clubs and bars are just bad ideas sorry. There are three kinds of men there, Gay, PUA, men dragged there by their women.

My wifes count is higher than mine. Nothing outrageous tho.

Not overly concerned with my average equipment. Hit bottom twice. BIG mood killer. It would just mean more hitting bottom.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

What I don't get about you Cletus is why you would marry a woman you didn't take for a test drive first? You seem to have zero issues about her past; you claim it wouldn't have bothered you. That's why so many guys strive for the virgin, because for them a past is an issue.

So why marry one if it wasn't a big deal to you?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> I LOVE MY VAS!
> 
> It DID hurt when he did lefty. Its awkward as hell having no pants on and the nurse is coming and going. She sees 9999 c0cks a day. NOTHING special about mine. I got over it. Felt like the after affects of a BIG kick in the nuggets. Afterwards... Being driven home. I hurt... Felt like the afteraffects of a big kick in the nuggets 10 minutes ago but lasted a day. Got home. Crawled into bed and went to sleep. Had tight high balls for a week.



If I get the snip, I want the good drugs. My wife and oldest daughter both got their wisdom teeth pulled a few years ago. They had sedation dentistry, and got amnesia inducting drugs. They don't remember the ride home, or sitting at home moaning with the pain.

Sounds good to me if my nuts are going to hurt like that.



weightlifter said:


> Not overly concerned with my average equipment. Hit bottom twice. BIG mood killer. It would just mean more hitting bottom.


It is a confidence booster though. 'Nah, I don't do the deep penetration moves cause they hurt' does puff you up.

Never being able to go all in with any position would suck though.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

About the only thing on the list I completely agree with is the vasectomy. Even then I would think only once a certain age is reached. As pointed out by other male posters, early snipping can come back and bite you in the ass if your life changes enough.

The rest of it I think like most things the truth is in the middle of the road.

Can a guy be insecure because he found VERY explicit pics of his wife and a ex with a horse [email protected]? Hell yea. Because the pics were kept and because the guy is John Holmes.

On the flip side of the coin could a woman be insecure because of pics/video/etc of a woman with a smaller kitty? (dont laugh,enough women are insecure enough that labiaplasty is a real thing) Or even a real small A feel insecure when she meets the DD ex that he seems a little to happy to see again? Hell yea.

Girls night out? Too broad of a term. But there are sure as hell some girls nights out that SOME people would have no problem with that would make SOME insecure/mad as hell. And SOME people are too damn uptight and should be fine with a basic girls night out and freak out. (oh and not being a hypocrit here the same goes for guys night out)

The truth for me is in the middle. 

And yeah be confident. But at the same time be confident/honest enough to admit some insecurities. Some vulnerability. Too much confidence comes off as unattractive arrogance and/or reaks of false bravado.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Some insecurity where the circumstances warrant it is not a big deal for me, life is so full of situations that can shake peoples core. No one is that strong that they sail through without some ups and downs.

I get it that this place is littered with hurt souls but the extremes of insecurity shown by some of the men (only saying men because this is the theme of the thread but yes women are as well) is just so OTT and not at all a reflection of the men in my life.
The paranoia and fervent mistrust is quite shocking at times, so out of touch with my personal reality and experience of men.

Added to the insecurity are the control and jealousy issues, it make me so glad to not have to deal with this type of man IRL.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

larry.gray said:


> If I get the snip, I want the good drugs. My wife and oldest daughter both got their wisdom teeth pulled a few years ago. They had sedation dentistry, and got amnesia inducting drugs. They don't remember the ride home, or sitting at home moaning with the pain.
> 
> Sounds good to me if my nuts are going to hurt like that.


Actually if the procedure goes well there should be little discomfort. Other than the initial pain from the local anesthetic, (That can make your toe nails sweat) it was pretty easy. Had it done on a Friday afternoon and drove myself home. Watched football all day Saturday with an ice pack and mowed the lawn on Sunday. NBD!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus...we need to at least make a distinction between jealousy and insecurity.

You can be jealous without also being insecure.

Jealousy can be a normal, natural response...it is exhibited by children and animals, without the presence of insecurity. It is sometimes a natural instinct to be aware that your bond (or whatever, it could be your food supply is being threatened, or your main source of security - as with siblings who are jealous and sometimes even kill each other in some animals) with someone else is being threatened (even if only minimally) and to automatically react to it. It comes from a place of "what's mine is mine, keep your paws off".

Insecurity driven jealousy is different. It comes from a place of "I am not good enough".

Cletus, I have a feeling that neither you nor your wife have felt any real jealousy ever. But I can say that if this were me, I would know it meant I wasn't into someone OR that I felt the person I was with isn't sexy or wanted by others.

And I don't mean raging jealousy, I mean just a twinge.

I would never accept, and neither would my husband, raging jealousy that is based in insecurity and which someone uses to coerce or change the other person. That really is a different thing.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Don't know if anyone watches House of Cards on Netflix, but I find that show absolutely addictive.

The Underwoods are morally bankrupt, unscrupulous, and self-serving. But they love each other.

And interestingly, the only time, ever, throughout 2 seasons that Claire (Robin Wright who right down to the haircut is a dead ringer for my last serious girlfriend) expresses anger or displeasure at her husband is the moment that she believes he doubts himself. It really jumps out. And not that I think we should base our relationships on politically power hungry fictional characters, the entire show is more about exploring relationships and the human character than it is about politics. I find it fascinating, and I have a bit of a crush on Robin, in spite of having been married to Sean Penn.

I try to balance my recognition that these men do in fact feel a tremendous amount of pain and hurt. I remember. I felt it too; with my inability to relate to how they are choosing (or not by choice) to cope with it.

Attraction is pretty much my mantra. It is my simplest operational parameter at this point. I want to do things that foster and build it, and avoid things that diminish or destroy it ... all while still getting to follow my own grace.

At it's simplest, I've found that confidence and humor, always trumps anger and uncertainty.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I don't do 'likes' but this deserves one GettingIt. Fantastic post. Rings with crystal clarity to me.



GettingIt said:


> You know, I sometimes wonder if some of the extreme insecurity that gets played out on TAM threads is of the "this is an anonymous forum so I'm going to vent what I know better than to express to my wife" type.
> 
> So I try to take it with a grain of salt. That being said . . .
> 
> ...


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Sigh. Here we go again. Any man who isn't super-Alpha gets bashed.

I guess I'm one of those unattractive insecure guys, as I've admitted that recently-discovered facts about my wife's past give me some trouble. I asked her about the perception that such insecurity is a turn-off for her, and she told me to banish that idea, that a man's ability to admit weakness is attractive. At least to her.

Since admitting to my wife my RJ issues, we've been averaging about 20 days a month of making love. That's after more than three decades together. But it isn't cause and effect, because that's what we were doing before I confessed to RJ. Quite honestly, in the last few years our sex life has been the best ever--yes, better than when we were 25. How are you super-Alphas doing on that score?

Perhaps I don't fit the "insecure" mold the OP is referring to, since I promised my wife that my RJ wasn't going to interfere with our relationship. It hasn't. I haven't quizzed her about anything or used anything as a weapon. I told her that I owned the issue, it was my problem and I knew it was mine to solve. It hasn't had any affect on the fact that I am crazy about her and vice versa.

I guess I am thankful that my wife is not one of these women who want complete domination by super-Alphas. That's just one more reason we've had a great marriage. I chose well when I we found each other. And I choose to ignore the bashing in this thread.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I liked GettingIt's post too, and I am not meaning to challenge her on anything...but I wanted to point out (and she can correct me if I have this wrong) but GettingIt likes to eroticize the idea of her husband being with other women sexually, and women in his past. She likes to picture it, have him tell her about it, etc. So that is actually a different mindset which some people will never have (ie: enjoying picturing and hearing about your spouse having sex with others). And clearly that mindset influences how she feels about his insecurity, because he doesn't have the same erotic notions of her past.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Forget that alpha/beta ****, jaharthur. Just being yourself is best.

Transparency is sexy! 

And it is clearly working for you! Congrats!


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> Sigh. Here we go again. Any man who isn't super-Alpha gets bashed.
> 
> I guess I am thankful that my wife is not one of these women who want complete domination by super-Alphas. That's just one more reason we've had a great marriage. I chose well when I we found each other. And I choose to ignore the bashing in this thread.


 I think you may be taking this a tad bit personally. I don't think anyone talked about a super-Alphas. I don't buy into the alpha/beta male talk so prevalent on TAM. I don't care if my husband is alpha or beta. He might be omega for all I care. He's confident and assertive when he has to be. He's gentle and loving when he needs to be. That's enough for me. I don't put him in some box. But he doesn't obsess about my past and I don't about his. I appreciate that.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I think it's absolutely pathetic how some threads here are loaded with men crying about the wife's previous lovers. I could not ever be with a man like that, no matter what he looked like, how much he made, or even if he voted for all the right candidates!


Many men have fragile egos. Hearing about all the other men who have bedded one's wife makes one wonder if she just "settled" for you.



> A woman never gets an elective hysterectomy now a days. A woman who gets a hysterectomy before menopause is complete has to deal with a hell of a lot more than a man who has a vasectomy, which is totally and always elective. Yes, some women mourn the loss of fertility, but it doesn't last long and it didn't prevent them from having the surgery. The loss of fertility in women is a sign of aging, which is also something of a hot button among women. Not so with a vasectomy with men.


Not only do many men have weak egos, a good number of those are afraid of losing out in the genetic lottery. Getting snipped limits one's participation in that lottery.



> And in terms of GNO... If your man can't deal with another man wanting you, which doesn't mean he's gonna get you, you may as well put on a burka! Any woman can walk into any establishment and get laid, if that was what she wanted to happen. Men who control GNOs...would kind of end the marriage for me.


Again, many men have weak egos. They are afraid that J. Random Dude from the GNO will either run off with their prize possession or that he'll make the wife pregant. Worst of all, other men might notice all this and think that he's not only not an alpha man, he's an omega man.

Which is why the response of more than a few men to the news of an affair is to want to go beat up the OM.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

jaharthur said:


> I asked her about the perception that such insecurity is a turn-off for her, and she told me to banish that idea, that a man's ability to admit weakness is attractive.
> 
> I told her that I owned the issue, it was my problem and I knew it was mine to solve. It hasn't had any affect on the fact that I am crazy about her and vice versa.


This is not weakness my friend. This is recognizing, owning and addressing your own issues. This is confidence.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

This story may ramble a bit, but I'm going to tell it anyway. 

Went to a concert with my GF last Friday night. She warned me that she becomes a Chatty Cathy when she drinks. She honestly talked about it, as she was tremendously concerned about how I'd respond.

Great venue, almost all standing, bunch of bars. I need to go to the restroom. I say to her with a smile, "Let's see how many guys hit on you while I'm gone." 
I get back, and sure enough, there she is laughing with 2 guys really chatting her up. I don't say a word. I'm behind her, and she has no idea. Smile on my face. Suddenly the other 2 guys realize I'm not just waiting for a drink. She laughs throws her arms around me and kisses me. Guys introduce themselves, not uncomfortably, we have a few laughs talk about the band, and they excuse themselves. Never did it cross my mind that these guys stood a remote chance of making anything happen with my date. Had I made a fuss ... there is a really good chance that I would have made something happen with my date, in that if I told her I was p!ssed off she was talking to these guys, it would have diminished her attraction to me. I would have looked insecure and controlling. 

Whereas, were they putting their hands on her, or making her uncomfortable, and I intervened, different circumstances, different result. Jealousy and mate guarding at that point, works for you rather than against you.

They were harmless. And what is important to me, is being able to recognize when they aren't harmless, which I'm pretty good at too.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> The snip was 10 - 12 years prior to her EA.


Way to take the high road.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> You got banned on that one?
> 
> Did you ever determine if the whole thread was from a troll?


No, I've managed to stay one step ahead of the thread Nazis to date...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm snipped and the girlfriend has a hysterectomy ... is 48 and her libido is still through the roof.

I of course have particularly had to practice on confidence in the bedroom, as I have ED.

Our last 2 outings have been 'unmedicated'. I roll with it.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> I LOVE MY VAS!
> 
> It DID hurt when he did lefty. Its awkward as hell having no pants on and the nurse is coming and going. She sees 9999 c0cks a day. NOTHING special about mine. I got over it. Felt like the after affects of a BIG kick in the nuggets. Afterwards... Being driven home. I hurt... Felt like the afteraffects of a big kick in the nuggets 10 minutes ago but lasted a day. Got home. Crawled into bed and went to sleep. Had tight high balls for a week.
> 
> 2 months later NO WORRIES! Worth it. HELL YEA! I love my kids but if I have another one I will sit in front of a train.


I've heard that from others I know who have been snipped.



> GNOs to clubs and bars are just bad ideas sorry. There are three kinds of men there, Gay, PUA, men dragged there by their women.


There's a fourth group. That's a couple of guys who just need a beer or two. There are more of them around then one thinks...



> My wifes count is higher than mine. Nothing outrageous tho.


That should make you happy because she obviously could attract men but married YOU.



> Not overly concerned with my average equipment. Hit bottom twice. BIG mood killer. It would just mean more hitting bottom.


That's not too much of a problem unless you hit bottom HARD. That can convince your partner that watching TV is really what she wants to do.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Cletus said:


> No, I've managed to stay one step ahead of the thread Nazis to date...


3 mods here Cletus. We've got you now ...


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

My husband has a "I'm awesome" vibe to him that I find attractive. This is not to be confused with "I'm conceited" awesome but "What you see is what you get, I don't care what other people think", awesome. 

While it's great that he never complains and he has this confident attitude, he also really never expresses anything. Once in a while it would be nice to know what he's actually thinking. So I think there's this fine line for men regarding showing strength and confidence but also showing some vulnerability.

Oh, and the vasectomy was the best thing that happened to our sex life.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> What I don't get about you Cletus is why you would marry a woman you didn't take for a test drive first? You seem to have zero issues about her past; you claim it wouldn't have bothered you. That's why so many guys strive for the virgin, because for them a past is an issue.
> 
> So why marry one if it wasn't a big deal to you?


Because it was a big deal to her, and I supported her decision even if I didn't agree with it. I was too naive at the time to really understand the full implications of that decision. I was always the type to move slow with a girl, if for no other reason than to prove that I wasn't just some one night stand seeker.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Deejo said:


> 3 mods here Cletus. We've got you now ...


Keep your eye on him. He picked that avatar to throw you off his trail, trying to appear as a slack jawed fool. In reality he's sharp and wily. Careful you!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> Sigh. Here we go again. Any man who isn't super-Alpha gets bashed.


No one would ever call me super-Alpha either.



> Perhaps I don't fit the "insecure" mold the OP is referring to, since I promised my wife that my RJ wasn't going to interfere with our relationship. It hasn't. I haven't quizzed her about anything or used anything as a weapon. I told her that I owned the issue, it was my problem and I knew it was mine to solve. It hasn't had any affect on the fact that I am crazy about her and vice versa.


That's a good distinction. Everyone HAS some insecurities. I'm referring to the men who then use them as weapons of mass destruction in their relationships. I'm not even against admitting them to your spouse - just be sure to man up and own them as your own issue, not incumbent on your wife to fix.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Keep your eye on him. He picked that avatar to throw you off his trail, trying to appear as a slack jawed fool. In reality he's sharp and wily. Careful you!


That's Mr. Slack Jawed Yokel to you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

RJ and being uncomfortable with your partners past is kind of a fine line as well, and peoples feelings about it are wide ranging. My issues with this are fairly well known here on TAM, and yeah, I have RJ type issues, but they don't fit the mold many people think RJ is about.

I have never held her past against her, and in fact, in principle and intellectually, I don't care how many partners she's had. The number doesn't bother me at all. I have never thought any less of her, never thought she was a slvt or anything like that. The issue we have run into is the fact that I am the type, like many others here, who wanted to have a don't ask, don't tell policy beyond very vague basics. Because of certain circumstances, I was not able to get that. There were some details that I had to know because they were important to some things going on in our lives at the time. My STBW is also the type who is very open and honest, and while I appreciate that very much, it is a double edged sword at times, and we have both had to learn. She, not to talk too much about her past sex life in front of me, and me not to be so sensitive to it. 

The thing is, it's kind of difficult not to be bothered when you learn that even after everything her ex husband put her through, that after what she did to get back at him, that after she broke up with her boyfriend after her ex, that she still went back and had sex with him. That does make it a bit more difficult on an emotional level to believe how much more special you are than him, and yet I have no doubts that I am.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Part of the reason the behavior of the kind to which I'm referring irritates me is because it's so often irrational, AND I F'ING HATE IRRATIONAL (byproduct of being raised by a paranoid schizophrenic). Maybe you can't not feel the way you do, but you have a couple thousand cc's of gray matter to apply to the problem to not behave like a long extinct branch on the evolutionary tree. 

When the insecurity is based either on groundless or weak assumptions, and the remedies some men employ to avoid them are counterproductive, untrusting, and often unloving, my sympathy bucket just runs out.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I couldn't care less how many men W was with before she met me. I've had more lovers than she has, and we just don't talk that much about it unless it comes up in conversation somehow. 

The only one I do care about is her POSOM. That sonofa***** should have his...

*deep breath* Nevermind!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

It really does seem like a lot of people would enjoy a don't ask, don't tell arrangement, and the ones who are having the issues are the ones whose partners have broken the don't ask, don't tell in some way, either by spilling it themselves, or it coming out through a third party.

I wonder how many people who say they have no problems with their partners pasts, don't care about it would feel the same if they actually knew details, and found themselves in situations after the details came out where more could come out...how many would be perfectly fine with that. No doubt, there are some, but I bet those kinds of situations would rock some people here to the core if they found themselves in that situation, whether they would admit it or not...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cletus...we need to at least make a distinction between jealousy and insecurity.


No, I don't think that I do. Jealousy is one of the insecurities to which I'm referring directly. 



> You can be jealous without also being insecure.


You can be both without being a tool about it. 

As I've stated in follow-ons, it's not really the feelings of insecurity that I find irritating, it's the actions that ensue. Being jealous is not the same as acting jealous. 



> Cletus, I have a feeling that neither you nor your wife have felt any real jealousy ever. But I can say that if this were me, I would know it meant I wasn't into someone OR that I felt the person I was with isn't sexy or wanted by others.


Sure I've felt jealous, just not in this relationship.



> I would never accept, and neither would my husband, raging jealousy that is based in insecurity and which someone uses to coerce or change the other person. That really is a different thing.


We're really saying the same thing. Be jealous, if you must, but take a page from Schnarch's work and self-soothe.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> The issue we have run into is the fact that I am the type, like many others here, who wanted to have a don't ask, don't tell policy beyond very vague basics.


:iagree:

My wife and I have rarely discussed details about our past sex lives. Our numbers are vastly different but neither could state the other's exactly. Mine is 6, hers is 20+ I assume. Since I am right on average there is no doubt many were more well endowed than me. It has never really bothered me. If we went into specifics about our past partners, I expect each of us would have some discomfort. Especially if there were an emotional connection to them as well. There are some things in relationships you just don't need to know....or share.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sam...a question for you. Did you feel RJ in previous relationships?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus...ok I agree with your post # 61. But there is a difference, and jealousy can stand alone without insecurity. It is not always caused by insecurity, it can be caused by our very nature (which I do not feel insecurity is in our nature).

But fair enough.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

I think if someone has been cheated on it's understandable but personally I find it extremely unattractive. I was talking to my husband about this yesterday. I have a couple of ex's as friends on Facebook and he has no issue with it whatsoever.
I have an old friend that I had a minor dalliance with who I talk to on FB once in a while and he just does not care because I'm transparent. He can view anything he wants on my phone and FB at any time. 
He just knows he's awesome and that I'm not going anywhere. 
He knows no one has a chance with me. 
If ever anyone were to say something inappropriate to me I would be sure to shoot that down and tell him about it, possible just stop talking to them and unfriend. 

His confidence and trust is a huge turn on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> And that's what confuses quite a lot of men. Not me, because I've learned quite a lot about women .
> 
> So how does the ordinary guy show strength and confidence today and tomorrow be the most warn , emotionally expressive , and vulnerable lover to a woman?
> 
> ...


 Love your posts CB.. always.... 



Cletus said:


> I've now seen many threads and many men recount how they're not comfortable with a woman who has a sexual past above their personal limit, whatever that is. Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. *Men who think that deflowering a virgin is the whole brass ring. *Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume.


 As a female everything you laid out in your opening post would be a *turn off to me personally *except for 1 thing.... the man who preferred the woman who was waiting for one special man... you call it "deflowering the virgin" but your intention is to scorn the idea, to make it sound weak & retarded even...a worthless desire (though I would disagree)...this depends, it's NOT all that Black and white as you would like to paint it...

I did want a MAN LIKE THIS... who cared deeply *how I felt* about what sex meant* to me*.. Commitment / Forever...entanglement and attachment with such a man... I wanted HIM to feel the very same.. .. I am happy to find men like *this* still exist ....some of us care about 1st's and FOREVER...I wanted to save this and all it's awkwardness & sweet vulnerability with my "soul mate"...my affliction is Romance.. excuse me... we all have our hang ups I suppose.......

Sex is something so beautiful/ life-giving, we feel it is meant for 1 very special person....I will not put down those who believe in waiting for marriage either... (if they do it when they feel it is utterly ridiculous.. I would be the 1st to tell them to go out & get all the test driving they can get in...because they are the type that WILL REGRET IT LATER ON)... 

But the rest of your post...

*1.* Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. This would DRIVE me batty if a man was like this... I wouldn't be able to deal with it, it would cause many fights... one of the reasons I feel so close to my husband IS because I can BE so gawd awful transparent about EVERYTHING under the sun...every thought , feeling...who I talk to out & about... if a guy friend calls the house, I give him the whole spill....we enjoy that !....we talk/joke openly about the attraction of others even...sometimes I feel like I might get crucified on this forum for coming off '"disrespectful" ...but it's just not the case... 

He's never asked me for a password in 31 yrs... I give him these willingly, he gets a good :rofl: out of my very dirty passwords.....

He's never denied me going out with the girls, to see Male dancers... never had me on a leash ...only worries I make it home OK... ..

*2*. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. This one is null & void with us....but I still enjoy some porn!...that can cause some comparisons...but it never has..he's all for us enjoying that ..even watching my face as I salivate a little... ..so long as I ain't slipping out to the studio during the day - he has no jealousy (he said that one day ...I laughed)

*3.* Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume. Although this wouldn't be his choice to get done, I can't see this being a concern of his at all......it was ME who wouldn't allow it.. the smallest risks I read about -was not worth it *to me*.....I got the IUD...because I was guarding my husband on this one.. 



> *Cletus said*: *I would want a man who knows what he is and what he isn't, with at least a modicum of confidence, even when he knows he's not the greatest stud on the planet or the prettiest pony on the lot. I'd want a man who trusts me to be his loving spouse, not one who fears that every six pack or less receded hairline is a Real And Present Danger to our marriage, or that every sock stuffed into a tight pair of jeans has me swooning for the hay loft.*


 Of course all of us women want THIS... but has our actions given a man this sort of confidence and trust that he doesn't have to worry.... should this not be asked as well??

Ya know what the sad thing is , most come into these relationships with SO MUCH FORMER BAGGAGE - mistrust, former ex's betrayal, lies...that we so often carry it into our relationships... then it becomes a problem for your current partner.. 

IT takes 2, doesn't it... to build that foundation of trust... My husband well knows he is not any stud...(well a couple of my gfs think so)...but really....not much attention from the Ladies -that was never a concern of his to begin with (another plus in my book)...he just wanted to be the best man he could for the woman of his dreams..



> *Faithful wife said*: Cletus...we need to at least make a distinction between jealousy and insecurity.
> 
> You can be jealous without also being insecure.
> 
> ...


:iagree: I like this write up on the healthy jealousy vs the Unhealthy jealousy...

Healthy and unhealthy jealousy



> *Two types of jealousy*
> Jealousy can be either healthy or unhealthy. Healthy jealousy is a means to guard your territory and comes from a sincere care and commitment to a relationship. On the other hand, unhealthy jealousy manifests itself through lies, threats, self-pity, and feelings of inadequacy, inferiority and insecurity.
> 
> *The good kind*
> ...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> sam...a question for you. Did you feel RJ in previous relationships?


Nope, and as you and I have discussed, my three partners have all had significantly higher counts than me. The actual count never bothered me, and the count still doesn't The biggest difference that I can see is indeed the fact that there really was never much mentioned about the past with my past partners. It stayed out there in some vague ether that we just never went to.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).


Wouldn't the equivalent be if a woman get's her tubes tied?
It's a whole lot different than having your womb removed.

Not really the same comparison.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My wife and I have rarely discussed details about our past sex lives. Our numbers are vastly different but neither could state the other's exactly. Mine is 6, hers is 25+ I assume. Since I am right on average there is no doubt many were more well endowed than me. It has never really bothered me. If we went into specific about our past partners, I expect each of us would have some discomfort. Especially if there were an emotional connection to them as well. There are some things in relationships you just don't need to know....or share.


The funny thing is, I am a guy who is about as average as they come in size, and that is one thing that has never bothered me at all. I know all of my partners have had bigger than me, how could they not have? In fact, I know of one specific case, and a name to go with it, and that doesn't bother me at all either...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).
> 
> This is normal but a man feeling the same thing is insecure and weak.


There's a _big _difference between a hysterectomy and a vasectomy. The latter, although less intrusive, is more on par with a tubal ligation...

It's normal for people to feel insecure once in a while, and I don't see it as weak, but we have to own our insecurities and work on them.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Love your posts CB.. always....
> 
> As a female everything you laid out in your opening post would be a *turn off to me personally *except for 1 thing.... the man who preferred the woman who was waiting for one special man... you call it "deflowering the virgin" but your intention is to scorn the idea, to make it sound weak & retarded even...a worthless desire (though I would disagree)...this depends, it's NOT all that Black and white as you would like to paint it...


Actually, no I just used the most common vernacular phrase for the act. I wasn't belittling it.



> I did want a MAN LIKE THIS... who cared deeply *how I felt* about what sex meant* to me*.. Commitment / Forever...entanglement and attachment with such a man... I wanted HIM to feel the very same.. .. I am happy to find men like *this* still exist ....some of us care about 1st's and FOREVER...I wanted to save this and all it's awkwardness & sweet vulnerability with my "soul mate"...my affliction is Romance.. excuse me... we all have our hang ups I suppose.......


As did my wife. Neither of us knew the implications fully, but I was honored at the time to be her Prince Valiant with his willy well and truly tucked away until the Great Bodice Ripping of our honeymoon.

But had she been experienced, it would have been not so much as a blip on the radar.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> That's a good distinction. Everyone HAS some insecurities. I'm referring to the men who then use them as weapons of mass destruction in their relationships. I'm not even against admitting them to your spouse - just be sure to man up and *own them as your own issue, not incumbent on your wife to fix*.


And that's the bottom line.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> And that's the bottom line.


Someone always has to be a bottom with you, don't they?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Nope, and as you and I have discussed, my three partners have all had significantly higher counts than me. The actual count never bothered me, and the count still doesn't The biggest difference that I can see is indeed the fact that there really was never much mentioned about the past with my past partners. It stayed out there in some vague ether that we just never went to.


Right. So I think in your case, your RJ was triggered by some of the extreme information you have had to hear, and the odd circumstances surrounding your stbw's past. You basically have PTSD.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I'm snipped and the girlfriend has a hysterectomy ... is 48 and her libido is still through the roof.
> 
> I of course have particularly had to practice on confidence in the bedroom, as I have ED.
> 
> Our last 2 outings have been 'unmedicated'. I roll with it.


Deejo, did you see my thread on the vegan diet and ED in the health section? A low fat vegan diet has cured ED for some men. Just fyi.


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## 305rob305 (Jun 4, 2013)

*Re: Re: Male insecurity*



Amplexor said:


> You know this will break into an Alpha/Beta thread sooner or later. To me the positive aspects of the Alpha traits simply boil down to confidence. My wife and I met at a professional conference. She first noticed me because she found me attractive. She became attracted to me because she saw my confidence. This is a huge attraction for her and it spills over from our professional lives to our personal lives.
> 
> A few years ago, when our marriage bottomed out and I discovered her subsurface EA that had been going on for more than a year, I caved emotionally. In trying to recover the marriage I became needy, desperate and weak. It drove her further away from me and towards her AP. In short, it pretty much repulsed her. When people discuss the 180 or LMBT, this is a core principle to the theory. Show your spouse you are confident in your life, with or without them. I didn't do that initially, I clung on as most recently BSs do and that is absolutely the wrong thing to do.
> 
> I put confidence in my signature line years ago when I found TAM. At the time, I had no idea of how powerful it would be in recovery.


Sir you're spot on. I'm 30 now and when I met my wife I was 21 and she was 27. I was so confident and mature that I she thought I was 26 for the first three months of dating. When she truly found out my real age it was too late. Now at 30 for some reason I've been having some insecure feelings and I've noticed some changes and I think she smells it. Time for me to do a radical change in order to keep things in order. I might go see a therapist if that helps


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

jld said:


> Deejo, did you see my thread on the vegan diet and ED in the health section? A low fat vegan diet has cured ED for some men. Just fyi.


lol I just talked to a guy the other day who changed this happened to.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I'm snipped and the girlfriend has a hysterectomy ... is 48 and her libido is still through the roof.
> 
> I of course have particularly had to practice on confidence in the bedroom, as I have ED.
> 
> Our last 2 outings have been 'unmedicated'. I roll with it.


There is no better stimulant than a girlfriend with a high libido...


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

(continuing my post above to sam...)

It took me a long time to realize that I had PTSD from my brother's car accident, which paralyzed him. For many years, I had an extreme paranoia while driving, thoughts I couldn't stop thinking about an accident occurring, or just picturing myself driving off a cliff. There were times I had to pull over because I was overwhelmed with irrational fear. I had these thoughts at other times, too but mostly while driving or was a passenger in a vehicle.

I didn't know why I couldn't just stop having these fears so long after the accident.

But then I learned more about PTSD and it made a lot of sense finally.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jld said:


> Deejo, did you see my thread on the vegan diet and ED in the health section? A low fat vegan diet has cured ED for some men. Just fyi.


I'll give it a look.

I just wish grass fed beef were considered vegan.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

sidney2718 said:


> There is no better stimulant than a girlfriend with a high libido...


Truer words never spoken.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cletus...ok I agree with your post # 61. But there is a difference, and jealousy can stand alone without insecurity. It is not always caused by insecurity, it can be caused by our very nature (which* I do not feel insecurity is in our nature*).
> 
> But fair enough.


That is an interesting thought, FW. You were saying before that this is true of children, that they just accept themselves as they are. So true.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I'll give it a look.
> 
> I just wish grass fed beef were considered vegan.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> (continuing my post above to sam...)
> 
> It took me a long time to realize that I had PTSD from my brother's car accident, which paralyzed him. For many years, I had an extreme paranoia while driving, thoughts I couldn't stop thinking about an accident occurring, or just picturing myself driving off a cliff. There were times I had to pull over because I was overwhelmed with irrational fear. I had these thoughts at other times, too but mostly while driving or was a passenger in a vehicle.
> 
> ...


I had this with my son's cancer. Twice after he was diagnosed, doctors told me they thought I had cancer, too, that directly! I was a wreck. Cancer just does not seem unlikely when a close family member has had it.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Insecurity becomes very unattractive to me when someone tries to put it all on you to sort their insecurity out, or they try to punish you for their insecurities, or they suddenly expect you to change into a different person to pacify their insecurities.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> lol I just talked to a guy the other day who changed this happened to.


Cool!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jld said:


> That is an interesting thought, FW. You were saying before that this is true of children, that they just accept themselves as they are. So true.


Just jealousy is true and natural of children, not insecurity. It takes a developed ego and some bad training to develop insecurity. Babies and small children may feel physical insecurity (as in, their bodies are physically threatened or their parent may leave them and they feel afraid for their own safety)...but their little egos are just full of themselves and they don't have the kind of insecurity that drives these issues in adults. Neither do animals.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> sam...a question for you. Did you feel RJ in previous relationships?


FW, as an RJ sufferer myself, may I answer that too? Yes, I did. When I was very young. The first 2 GF's I had slept with had more partners than I (including one with a set of brothers - not together though). So, yeah, I had a real problem with it. I was 18 and felt inadequate. As I got older it was not an issue, until just over a year ago, when I found out my W may not have been completely honest with me about her past. Then, it all flared back up again.

To my credit, I have not burdened her with it, though. It's my issue, not hers.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thunder7 said:


> FW, as an RJ sufferer myself, may I answer that too? Yes, I did. When I was very young. The first 2 GF's I had slept with had more partners than I (including one with a set of brothers - not together though). So, yeah, I had a real problem with it. I was 18 and felt inadequate. As I got older it was not an issue, until just over a year ago, when I found out my W may not have been completely honest with me about her past. Then, it all flared back up again.
> 
> To my credit, I have not burdened her with it, though. It's my issue, not hers.


Why is it not the issue of both of you, if there was lying? Honesty builds trust, and lying destroys it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thunder, with legs like that, what do you have to worry about?

Oh wait...those aren't yours? Well then if SHE has legs like that, no wonder you are worried!



But real question...do you think that something surrounding what you found out with your earliest teen girlfriends may have caused a PTSD response? They are finding this can happen surrounding just about anything, it all depends on how you processed certain information at the time you saw or heard it. Anything can be traumatic to an individual. Just a thought.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> You know, I sometimes wonder if some of the extreme insecurity that gets played out on TAM threads is of the "this is an anonymous forum so I'm going to vent what I know better than to express to my wife" type.


I suspect this is a lot of it. As noted in the rest of your post and throughout this thread, men having insecurities is unattractive. To many, this means it is not permitted. So I think a lot of guys try to push them down, even while those insecurities show in their actions. 

Here, they can post about them (and some even do so with the goal of dealing with those insecurities).


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

soccermom2three said:


> Oh, and the vasectomy was the best thing that happened to our sex life.


For us too. The vasectomy was a quick out-patient procedure done by a very experienced doctor. It was done in the doctor's office. Not even in the OR. My husband came home about two hours later. Went to work the next day. He hasn't had any complications from it. One of the best things we ever did. No more surprise pregnancies!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Thunder7 said:


> FW, as an RJ sufferer myself, may I answer that too? Yes, I did. When I was very young. The first 2 GF's I had slept with had more partners than I (including one with a set of brothers - not together though). So, yeah, I had a real problem with it. I was 18 and felt inadequa
> te. As I got older it was not an issue, until just over a year ago, when I found out my W may not have been completely honest with me about her past. Then, it all flared back up again.
> 
> To my credit, I have not burdened her with it, though. It's my issue, not hers.


Ahh brothers...my STBW had a set too, and one of them was the one I know for sure was bigger than me  I found out about that when my STBW got totally hammered after the funeral of one of the brothers that died and she started talking about how she and her best friend were talking about them after he died...they had both shared them, all at different times. To my STBW's credit, she hasn't gotten drunk like that again because of her ahem...openness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

That's a good point that vasectomy is more in line with a tubal than a hysterectomy. I agree completely. Even a tubal is far more invasive. The thing is, I think that many women still mourn the loss of their fertility after (or before) a tubal. And the tubal is elective in the same way a vasectomy is. My point is that the women mourning the loss of their fertility, even after a tubal, receive a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to cry on. A man experiencing the exact same feelings gets told to man up and is shamed for being insecure, by the exact same people.

For the record, my wife chose to get a tubal. She chose to do it, rather than suggesting I get snipped, because she was having her 3rd c section and they could do it all at the same time. Made sense to me. I've only really ever thought about the vasectomy question in theory, here on TAM, in response to what others say about it. And I guess I find myself sympathetic to the guys who have a problem with the way they're pushed into it with no regard for their (as I see it) legitimate feelings.

I always wonder and want to ask wives, 'do you see your husband as less of a man now that he cannot father children'? And I always wonder, what if he feels that way, would you be sympathetic to his worry, or would you shame him for being insecure and not manning up? I'm pretty sure if those were the feelings of a woman who had a tubal that her husband would try to be supportive of her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, admitting insecurity is best, and the first step towards overcoming it. But people differ over what constitutes insecurity.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

jld said:


> Yes, admitting insecurity is best, and the first step towards overcoming it. But people differ over what constitutes insecurity.


We are also the most insecure about the things we can least 'fix'

I have my own insecurity about something which I know I can't fix, I've just learned to ignore it.

It is one of the few things that could puncture my ego like an overstretched balloon.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Jld is right. Sometimes insecurities need to be owned by more than just the insecure.

A wife might be insecure about here weight because her husband is an a$$hole and makes her feel bad about it all the time.

A husband might be insecure about how much he makes because his wife is a b!tch and gives him grief about it all the time.

Two examples where people dont need to own it, or be more confident. 

Extreme examples I know, but for me I always try to find that middle ground. To understand peoples motivations? I tend to think it takes two to tango, and sometimes people need to own up to their own part in things as well.

Probably just that people pleaser middle child in me.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Thunder, with legs like that, what do you have to worry about?
> 
> Oh wait...those aren't yours? Well then if SHE has legs like that, no wonder you are worried!
> 
> ...


I'm sure that is possible. I never really thought about it before. What's funny is the gf with the brothers, prior to me, is still a friend. My wife even knows and likes her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> We are also the most insecure about the things we can least 'fix'
> 
> I have my own insecurity about something which I know I can't fix, I've just learned to ignore it.
> 
> It is one of the few things that could puncture my ego like an overstretched balloon.


Do you think it is possible, since it is something you cannot change, to actually learn to love about yourself?


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

jld said:


> Why is it not the issue of both of you, if there was lying? Honesty builds trust, and lying destroys it.


I had to make an internal choice as to whether it was lying or omission. I chose omission. Our marriage has been rock solid for 20+ years. Is now the time to nit pick an issue that wasn't there before? At the moment, I'm saying 'no'.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

jld said:


> Do you think it is possible, since it is something you cannot change, to actually learn to love about yourself?


No, at least not for me.

It is more that I realise I am far more than my insecurity and I can just let it go.

I can't learn to 'love it' but I can learn to 'Meh, so what' it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thunder7 said:


> I had to make an internal choice as to whether it was lying or omission. I chose omission. Our marriage has been rock solid for 20+ years. Is now the time to nit pick an issue that wasn't there before? At the moment, I'm saying 'no'.


But if you are bringing it up, it must bother you, right?


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

jld said:


> But if you are bringing it up, it must bother you, right?


I'm bringing it up here. That's WHY I came here. I am not going to jeopardize my marriage for my one glaring insecurity. It bothers me more when we're not together. The mind wanders. When we're together I almost never think of it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I suspect this is a lot of it. As noted in the rest of your post and throughout this thread, men having insecurities is unattractive. To many, this means it is not permitted. So I think a lot of guys try to push them down, even while those insecurities show in their actions.
> 
> Here, they can post about them (and some even do so with the goal of dealing with those insecurities).


Just want to clarify here that it is not men *having* the insecurities that is unattractive. Insecurities can't be helped; they are an emotional reaction to something. *How a man addresses his insecurities* is what can be either admirable (attractive) or unadmirable (unattractive) to a woman. 

As I noted, I'm highly attracted to my husband, who has his share of insecurities just like the average guy seems to. He just doesn't let them rule his life . . . or mine. So his insecurities don't detract from my sexual attraction for him.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> Perhaps I don't fit the "insecure" mold the OP is referring to, since I promised my wife that my RJ wasn't going to interfere with our relationship. It hasn't. I haven't quizzed her about anything or used anything as a weapon. I told her that I owned the issue, it was my problem and I knew it was mine to solve. It hasn't had any affect on the fact that I am crazy about her and vice versa.


Example of attractive attitude towards one's insecurities.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sure. Makes sense.

I am pretty transparent with dh, but once in a while I think of something I am ashamed or scared to tell him. But almost always when I tell him, he reacts more compassionately than I expect. And it feels so good to have a clear conscience.

I guess I was thinking if you could share what is bothering you with your wife, you would feel better, and together you could solve the problem. And confiding in her would build her trust in you, I think.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> jaharthur--
> 
> My husband could be the most jealous person ever. He could be one of the types who thinks that if I did x in a past relationship, I'd better do it in my current relationship otherwise I don't love him. He could hate all of my exes and perform voodoo rituals to ensure their impotence and weiner-shrinkage.
> 
> ...


:iagree: What she said.

Um, I used "flagellate" in a post on a similar topic last night . . . I'm not sure what that means . . .


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That's a good point that vasectomy is more in line with a tubal than a hysterectomy. I agree completely. Even a tubal is far more invasive. The thing is, I think that many women still mourn the loss of their fertility after (or before) a tubal. And the tubal is elective in the same way a vasectomy is. My point is that the women mourning the loss of their fertility, even after a tubal, receive a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to cry on. A man experiencing the exact same feelings gets told to man up and is shamed for being insecure, by the exact same people.
> 
> For the record, my wife chose to get a tubal. She chose to do it, rather than suggesting I get snipped, because she was having her 3rd c section and they could do it all at the same time. Made sense to me. I've only really ever thought about the vasectomy question in theory, here on TAM, in response to what others say about it. And I guess I find myself sympathetic to the guys who have a problem with the way they're pushed into it with no regard for their (as I see it) legitimate feelings.
> 
> I always wonder and want to ask wives, 'do you see your husband as less of a man now that he cannot father children'? And I always wonder, what if he feels that way, would you be sympathetic to his worry, or would you shame him for being insecure and not manning up? I'm pretty sure if those were the feelings of a woman who had a tubal that her husband would try to be supportive of her.



Less of a man? I just do not get that. Now he's just my sex object and I don't have to worry about birth control ever again!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I liked GettingIt's post too, and I am not meaning to challenge her on anything...but I wanted to point out (and she can correct me if I have this wrong) but GettingIt likes to eroticize the idea of her husband being with other women sexually, and women in his past. She likes to picture it, have him tell her about it, etc. So that is actually a different mindset which some people will never have (ie: enjoying picturing and hearing about your spouse having sex with others). A*nd clearly that mindset influences how she feels about his insecurity,* because he doesn't have the same erotic notions of her past.


No, it doesn't. 

The eroticization of his past is relatively new material in our sexual repertoire. His RJ and insecurities have been around for all of our 24 year relationship. 

I don't at all expect my husband to be like me, or for his attraction to work like mine does. I just expect him to work on his sh!t, whatever it may be.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> Less of a man? I just do not get that. Now he's just my sex object and I don't have to worry about birth control ever again!


The question wasn't whether you agree with the sentiment. The question was what your reaction would be if your husband felt that way. Would you shame him for being insecure and not manning up? Or would you support him through his legitimate feelings of loss?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes fair point, GettingIt.

I understand better now...you weren't irritated with his insecurity, you were just irritated when he would try to make it your problem.

But I did also mean it kind of like (bear with me a moment) if a guy has a cuckhold fetish, he is going to be saying "why would you be insecure or jealous?"

I had thought that in previous posts, you had said you used to not be sympathetic with your H's insecurities and that is how I imagined the analogy..."since I feel the opposite, what you feel is foreign to me" IOW.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes fair point, GettingIt.
> 
> I understand better now...you weren't irritated with his insecurity, you were just irritated when he would try to make it your problem.


Yup. Always happy to work with him on issues, as he is me, as long as we own what is ours. 

I don't think anyone expects perfection from their spouses. Along with learning to say, "I'm sorry," learning to say, "I know this is a problem, and I'm going to work on it" is a great way to keep things kickin'.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There are a lot (A LOT) of women who feel less of a woman after a hysterectomy. They feel that they lose their femininity along with their fertility. But when a man feels that way about his maleness after he loses the ability to father children he's insecure and unattractive. Whatever. The one trait I find more unattractive than insecurity is hypocriticalness (is that a word?).
> 
> 
> This is normal but a man feeling the same thing is insecure and weak.



:iagree:

You hit it exactly. Definitely a double standard in society on male weakness vs female weakness. Women are often embraced when they display weakness, literally. Men can sometimes be persecuted for displaying the exact same weakness.

Insecurity is nothing less than a weakness, but it is nothing more than that, either. So if women posters here want to point out that a man's weaknesses are a turnoff for them, that's fine......they're being honest no doubt. But a number of the men that post here are simply being transparent about their insecurities, sometimes even admitting they are a bit irrational on the issue at hand (retroactive jealousy etc.). People then respond to them as if they've never had an irrational thought in their lives. Give me a break.....


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I think it's absolutely pathetic how some threads here are loaded with men crying about the wife's previous lovers. I could not ever be with a man like that, no matter what he looked like, how much he made, or even if he voted for all the right candidates!
> 
> A woman never gets an elective hysterectomy now a days. A woman who gets a hysterectomy before menopause is complete has to deal with a hell of a lot more than a man who has a vasectomy, which is totally and always elective. Yes, some women mourn the loss of fertility, but it doesn't last long and it didn't prevent them from having the surgery. The loss of fertility in women is a sign of aging, which is also something of a hot button among women. Not so with a vasectomy with men.
> 
> And in terms of GNO... If your man can't deal with another man wanting you, which doesn't mean he's gonna get you, you may as well put on a burka! Any woman can walk into any establishment and get laid, if that was what she wanted to happen. Men who control GNOs...would kind of end the marriage for me.


Your first paragraph....
Then would you agree that women who aren't honest about their sexual history are just as pathetic?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> But a number of the men that post here are simply being transparent about their insecurities, sometimes even admitting they are a bit irrational on the issue at hand (retroactive jealousy etc.). People then respond to them as if they've never had an irrational thought in their lives. Give me a break.....


But some of these same men are absolutely brutal to women when they express insecurities around here.

Something like "You feel insecure about porn? Get over yourself, every man does it and if he doesn't he's lying and you're a big ninny. Now meanwhile, shut up about my small penis/vas insecurity, because THAT is TRULY something to be insecure about!!!"

If it is normal and acceptable for a man to have insecurities about his peen (or whatever) why wouldn't he understand this might be true for women and porn?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> Many men have fragile egos. Hearing about all the other men who have bedded one's wife makes one wonder if she just "settled" for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What % of men would you say would NOT wonder, at least a little, if their highly experienced wife "settled" for them, at least in some respects? Am guessing perhaps as high as 10%


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> Insecurity is nothing less than a weakness, but it is nothing more than that, either. So if women posters here want to point out that a man's weaknesses are a turnoff for them, that's fine......they're being honest no doubt. But a number of the men that post here are simply being transparent about their insecurities, sometimes even admitting they are a bit irrational on the issue at hand (retroactive jealousy etc.). People then respond to them as if they've never had an irrational thought in their lives. Give me a break.....


I think I've tried to say it a million different ways . . . but I'll try ONE MORE TIME. 

It is not the insecurity or the "weakness" that is a turn off. IT IS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. (or more to the point, what you don't . . . )

You know, it's sorta like the advice given to LD women here all the time: your lack of desire, although very real, is hurting your spouse, hurting your marriage. Find a way to understand it, deal with it, improve it for the sake of your partner and the health of your marriage

Same thing, guys: your insecurity, although very real, is hurting your spouse, hurting your marriage. Find a way to understand it, deal with it, improve it for the sake your your partner and the health of your marriage.

The wallowing has got to stop guys! Gawd!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> Many men have fragile egos. Hearing about all the other men who have bedded one's wife makes one wonder if she just "settled" for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure about your last point. He might do that if he has strong physical confidence, regardless of the state of his ego generally. In the aftermath of his wife's affair though, the strongest display of a strong male ego is for him to end his marriage.
I think the strongest display of strong male ego is to end the marriage


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> When you think you've been around the block enough times to have seen most everything there is to see, it's nice to surprised once in a while. That's happened recently here regarding male insecurity.
> 
> I've now seen many threads and many men recount how they're not comfortable with a woman who has a sexual past above their personal limit, whatever that is. Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. Men who think that deflowering a virgin is the whole brass ring. Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume.
> 
> ...


I've only read the first page of this thread so I hope my response is not obsolete!

The only characteristic you listed above that seems insecure to me is worrying about what size you are. Worry more about what you're going to do with it!

All the other concerns I can see as legitimate concerns. As far as vasectomy, why shouldn't a man be concerned about that, just as much as a woman should be concerned about getting tubes tied. There are possible side effects to ALL methods of birth control (except the rhythm method if you can figure it out and abstain from sex when you need to). 

I guess it depends on the individuals in the relationship what is considered insecure/secure concerns but none of the above except size show insecurity to me.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> What % of men would you say would NOT wonder, at least a little, if their highly experienced wife "settled" for them, at least in some respects? Am guessing perhaps as high as 10%


I'm not sure.

But you can put me firmly in the category of those who don't wonder.

Perhaps I'm an arrogant SOB in this regard but I reckon she got the real deal when she married me.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> My husband has a "I'm awesome" vibe to him that I find attractive. This is not to be confused with "I'm conceited" awesome but "What you see is what you get, I don't care what other people think", awesome.
> 
> While it's great that he never complains and he has this confident attitude, he also really never expresses anything. Once in a while it would be nice to know what he's actually thinking. So I think there's this fine line for men regarding showing strength and confidence but also showing some vulnerability.
> 
> Oh, and the vasectomy was the best thing that happened to our sex life.


Good post. Not expressing vulnerability limits intimacy, the latter being important to a strong marriage. Have seen a few female posters mention how glad they are that the men in their lives don't have the insecurities referenced in this thread. I would suggest that some of their husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles etc. Do indeed have these same insecurities but don't express them, or won't seem to have them at all....up until a life-changing tragedy (loss of a job etc).. then they'll express them so much they'll seem to be falling apart.....


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Insecurity is nothing less than a weakness, but it is nothing more than that, either. So if women posters here want to point out that a man's weaknesses are a turnoff for them, that's fine......they're being honest no doubt. But a number of the men that post here are simply being transparent about their insecurities, sometimes even admitting they are a bit irrational on the issue at hand (retroactive jealousy etc.). People then respond to them as if they've never had an irrational thought in their lives. Give me a break.....


Transparency is good, I guess, but not a get out of jail free card.

I was listening to an NPR report yesterday where a Cajun good ol' boy was being interviewed. At one point, when asked if he voted for Obama, he said "No. I don't vote for blacks. They have their place and we have ours. That's how I was raised".

Ok, that's transparent, and still pretty damned reprehensible. It's an insecurity, albeit racial instead of sexual, but it's one that damn near all of us agree ought to be eradicated from the species if at all possible.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> Actually if the procedure goes well there should be little discomfort. Other than the initial pain from the local anesthetic, (That can make your toe nails sweat) it was pretty easy. Had it done on a Friday afternoon and drove myself home. Watched football all day Saturday with an ice pack and mowed the lawn on Sunday. NBD!


My problem is that locals are not all that effective for me. Getting dental work is hell for me. The $490 out of pocket for sedation dentistry is steep, so I bear it. I'm totally numb to touch. I mostly don't feel it when he's not drilling, but when the drill is working it is brutal. When he stops, it goes back to no pain right away.

Stitches are similar. Nothing until the needle goes through. Then I can definitely feel it while the needle is digging and then it's back to nothing as soon as he stops. 

The thought of getting that with my nads?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Good post. Not expressing vulnerability limits intimacy, the latter being important to a strong marriage. Have seen a few female posters mention how glad they are that the men in their lives don't have the insecurities referenced in this thread. I would suggest that some of their husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles etc. Do indeed have these same insecurities but don't express them, or won't seem to have them at all....up until a life-changing tragedy (loss of a job etc).. then they'll express them so much they'll seem to be falling apart.....


My husband cried when our son was diagnosed with cancer. Dd and I were really surprised. And scared.

Yes, every man has weaknesses. All humans have them.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Transparency is good, I guess, but not a get out of jail free card.
> 
> I was listening to an NPR report yesterday where a Cajun good ol' boy was being interviewed. At one point, when asked if he voted for Obama, he said "No. I don't vote for blacks. They have their place and we have ours. That's how I was raised".
> 
> Ok, that's transparent, and still pretty damned reprehensible. It's an insecurity, albeit racial instead of sexual, but it's one that damn near all of us agree ought to be eradicated from the species if at all possible.


Yes, but we can't eradicate it until we identify it. Transparency is just where we start; it is the beginning of the work.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> My husband cried when our son was diagnosed with cancer. Dd and I were really surprised. And scared.
> 
> Yes, every man has weaknesses. All humans have them.


Good lord, I can't imagine any universe in which that's considered a weakness.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The question wasn't whether you agree with the sentiment. The question was what your reaction would be if your husband felt that way. Would you shame him for being insecure and not manning up? Or would you support him through his legitimate feelings of loss?



Well I think if he felt that strongly about it he should wait a while to do it. He had his before we met in a previous marriage. To me that's not jealousy or insecurity it's more the loss of fertility, which women go through too. 
I don't think he would think I was going to go out looking for a fertile man to replace him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Good lord, I can't imagine any universe in which that's considered a weakness.


Look, Cletus, dh is always calm. We were all breaking down. We were always used to leaning on him. I did not know what to think the first two days, until he was able to see the hospital social worker and get some hope that ds would survive. It was a traumatic time.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Thunder7 said:


> As I got older it was not an issue, until just over a year ago, when I found out my W may not have been completely honest with me about her past. Then, it all flared back up again.
> 
> To my credit, I have not burdened her with it, though. It's my issue, not hers.


Her lying to you is your issue? RJ and insecurity are your issues. But her lying to questions you asked isn't your issue. It's hers.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> What % of men would you say would NOT wonder, at least a little, if their highly experienced wife "settled" for them, at least in some respects? Am guessing perhaps as high as 10%



This I don't get. Quantity does not equal quality. Why would having a high number mean someone is settling? I truly don't get it. 
I had a guy friend in college who bragged about his number. One of our mutual friends had a one night stand with him and told me there's a reason why his number is so high: because no one wants a repeat performance. 
One night stands and brief flings are fun at the time but without the love and connection they pale on comparison. 
And again maybe it's me but I hardly think about men I was with in the past. I had some good experiences but I just don't think about it. It's in the past.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> And again maybe it's me but I hardly think about men I was with in the past. I had some good experiences but I just don't think about it. It's in the past.


Lion King - What did you do that for - the past can hurt - YouTube


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Lion King - What did you do that for - the past can hurt - YouTube



Did you seriously answer me with a clip from a children's cartoon? Is that what that song is really about?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> But some of these same men are absolutely brutal to women when they express insecurities around here.
> 
> Something like "You feel insecure about porn? Get over yourself, every man does it and if he doesn't he's lying and you're a big ninny. Now meanwhile, shut up about my small penis/vas insecurity, because THAT is TRULY something to be insecure about!!!"
> 
> If it is normal and acceptable for a man to have insecurities about his peen (or whatever) why wouldn't he understand this might be true for women and porn?


Ok I've noticed what you refer to. The guys I'm talking about aren't the only posters that flare up intolerance (and Inhumility )


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I think I've tried to say it a million different ways . . . but I'll try ONE MORE TIME.
> 
> It is not the insecurity or the "weakness" that is a turn off. IT IS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. (or more to the point, what you don't . . . )
> 
> ...


My post was not directed at one of yours. But in general you are wrong, the insecurities themsevelves ars plenty of reason to turn women off, which many women make clear every day on this website.

How you as an individual view this stuff, and regarding your partner specifically, May be different.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> My post was not directed at one of yours. But in general you are wrong, *the insecurities themsevelves ars plenty of reason to turn women off*, which many women make clear every day on this website.
> 
> How you as an individual view this stuff, and regarding your partner specifically, May be different.


_Some_ women? Yeah, probably. 

But I didn't notice any of that in this thread, and honestly I've seen very little of it in others. I do see a lot of miscommunication and projecting, though, from both sides. The vast majority of people aren't at the extremes one way or the other. It always seems to boil down to discussing the extremes, though. And to what end? To poke at insecure guys? They make easy victims and take bait willingly. To poke at women for honest discussions of their desire? Is it any wonder they shut down?

Is it any wonder both sides end up lashing out? _That is what these threads end up being about. _

I think the vast majority of people--both men and women--accept that their parter will have insecurities. And they expect their partner to have sympathy for and support them in their own insecurities. They just ask that insecurities don't get so out of hand that the relationship gets nuked. 

But at the end of the day we all tolerate different levels of insecurity. What might be a deal breaker for me won't be for the next gal. C'est la vie.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> My post was not directed at one of yours. But in general you are wrong, the insecurities themsevelves ars plenty of reason to turn women off, which many women make clear every day on this website.
> 
> How you as an individual view this stuff, and regarding your partner specifically, May be different.


I don't believe that it's the insecurities themselves that are a turn off (we all have them). It's the way they are dealt with. It's when those insecurities become the forefront of someone's life and they expect _others_ to adapt and cater to them that the problem sets in, and that's when they become a turn off, IMO.


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

I think it's the same for everyone. Insecurity is unattractive, whoever you are.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I find women singularly hypocritical on the issue of 'insecurity'. Every ounce they put on, they go into depression. Once a month, they need massive amounts of reassurance and/or understanding due to hormones. We are supposed to be emotionally supportive CONSTANTLY.

I rarely meet a guy who is worried about his thighs. I rarely meet a man who can talk for three hours about 'what she meant' which has the SO wound up. I rarely meet a man whose whole night can be ruined by wearing the wrong thing.

Here is one (1) example of what I mean. 

This is from a thread in the Men's Clubhouse "Husband Obsessed with Huge Breasts" or some such

Summary: Wife for unknown reasons went into her husband's phone web browser history. She found links to a bunch of porn sites which has women with Huge breasts. This woman has large breasts. They have had a happy marriage. They had a kid together. He frequently has sex with her and tells her he loves her.

What to do about this?

Why...scream at her husband for this HORRIBLE betrayal and treat him like a school boy.

HE IS LOOKING AT PICTURES.

Here is a rebuttal to something one poster said.



> > Originally Posted by Therealbrighteyes View Post
> > It isn't harmless if it hurts the partner. Saying all guys do it/are visual just is patronizing as all get out. I've never met a woman who isn't visual but we manage to respect our spouse enough to not have naked photos of better looking guys laying around. It is disrespectful, hurtful and rude.
> 
> 
> ...


Both genders can be 'insecure', but I get pretty tired at how one sided 'insecurity latitude' is.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't really get your post JCD.
You just pointed out depending on the subject both gender's insecurities get dismissed. It just looks to me that hypocrisy runs in both genders.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Never had to deal with an insecure male (in the way described); guess I've never been attracted to one...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

JCD said:


> This is from a thread in the Men's Clubhouse "Husband Obsessed with Huge Breasts" or some such
> 
> Summary: Wife for unknown reasons went into her husband's phone web browser history. She found links to a bunch of porn sites which has women with Huge breasts. This woman has large breasts. They have had a happy marriage. They had a kid together. He frequently has sex with her and tells her he loves her.
> 
> ...


JCD, I don't believe that being insecure about something like weight gain is _quite_ the same as being hacked off that an H is salivating over other women's bodies. A better analogy would be a W storing photos of other men and masturbating over them. I don't know any women who do this (but I'm sure there are some), so I don't believe men have been 'tested' in quite the same way, but it's my guess they'd have the tape measure out and be popping Viagra...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cosmos, would a better analogy be women reading erotica and masturbating afterwards? Or would that not be a good analogy at all?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

jld said:


> Cosmos, would a better analogy be women reading erotica and masturbating afterwards? Or would that not be a good analogy at all?


Yes, it would. I mightn't see the same correlation between images of real, live people and text, but that doesn't matter. If I read such 'literature' and my SO objected I'd stop doing it.

I don't believe in actively doing something that triggers insecurities in one's SO.


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's a man-up choice that makes him a bigger man than those who refuse to do it based on ejaculate amounts or whatever lame excuse they come up with.





ScarletBegonias said:


> I'd call him unattractive for refusing to do it thus forcing his wife to undergo surgery or stay on chemical birth control til menopause.


I'm sorry, you honestly have no idea the risks involved with a vasectomy. I really doubt men that decide not to have a vasectomy do it because of possible "reduced ejaculate"

Men that refuse to do a vasectomy typically do so because of the very real permanent risk it poses to your ability to perform. Permanent pain, reduced libido, permanent erectile dysfunction. These are ALL very real risks associated with getting a vasectomy.

I'm sorry, refusal to get a vasectomy has nothing to do with insecurity or selfishness. Or do you suppose most women want their man to have erectile problems or permanent genital pain?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think it's a very personal choice as to whether or not you want to have surgery done on your body. I don't think it's fair to criticise people for not wanting it, but it's also not fair for them to push their partner into it because they want the results, but want someone else to take the risks.

If it comes down to you or your partner having surgery to prevent pregnancy, and both want the permanent results from surgery, then I think it's the responsibility of whoever faces the least amount of risk in having the procedure done to step forward.

E.g. my DH stepped forward in our case, but in a few other cases I know of, the wife stepped forward as she had the procedure done at the same time as something else that was necessary, making it less risky overall.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Thepoet said:


> I'm sorry, you honestly have no idea the risks involved with a vasectomy. I really doubt men that decide not to have a vasectomy do it because of possible "reduced ejaculate"
> 
> Men that refuse to do a vasectomy typically do so because of the very real permanent risk it poses to your ability to perform. Permanent pain, reduced libido, permanent erectile dysfunction. These are ALL very real risks associated with getting a vasectomy.
> 
> I'm sorry, refusal to get a vasectomy has nothing to do with insecurity or selfishness. Or do you suppose most women want their man to have erectile problems or permanent genital pain?


I have some idea since my ex husband and I did extensive research into the topic before he got his vasectomy. There are very real risks,however,those risks are significantly outweighed by the risks that go along with chemical birth control,iud,and tubal ligation surgery. 

You don't even need to be put under for a vasectomy. During a tubal you must be in a hospital setting and intubated. Unless you want to go the route of epidural and do a laparotomy or mini-laparotomy. But again, epidural...a huge needle inserted into your spinal area. 

Also,please provide the facts to back up your claim about erectile problems being associated with vasectomy...other than the psychological issues that may occur which can be resolved. 

Most responsible doctors out there will tell you if you have a choice,get the vasectomy and don't put your wife through major surgery. Unless she's already going into the OR for other reasons.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ya know what the sad thing is , most come into these relationships with SO MUCH FORMER BAGGAGE - mistrust, former ex's betrayal, lies...that we so often carry it into our relationships... then it becomes a problem for your current partner..
> 
> *IT takes 2, doesn't it... to build that foundation of trust... *


:iagree:
Yes, SA , it takes two, and sometimes I wonder when would we on TAM finally ' get it?"

There are two things I would like people here to get about insecurity.

1] *It is NOT a gender issue.*

There is nothing like " male insecurity" and " female insecurity."
I've seen females come here with RJ issues. I've seen females come here with jealousy issues about their husbands and boyfriends interactions with other women , men and pornography.
But there seems to be this dismissive attitude in general to their feelings of insecurity , when IMO the focus ought to be on the root of the insecurity. The spouses actions are just a trigger , but the root of the insecurity lies deeper within.
In order to address it BOTH partners need to work on it.

2]*Absolutely all of us have our insecurities*.


Some people are just better at managing their insecurities, and that can be a function of past relationship hurt or childhood issues, or their personality type , or a difference in awareness.

A woman who was raped or had issues of sexual abuse in her past could have serious insecurities about men in general. She enters a relationship with a man, an sooner or later these insecurities begin to show as irrational behavior / attitudes towards sex and intimacy.
I've never seen anyone on TAM tell such a woman to " get over it " , and rightfully so, because it is " _cruel to mock the afflicted._"

However, a man who has been hurt in past relationship, or who was seriously bullied in the past could be insecure in a present relationship, and that insecurity could manifest itself as controlling behaviors.

Given those two fairly common examples, how can the first reaction to dealing with insecurity in a marriage be to threaten divorce or lack of sexual attraction?
In any event, if sexual attraction to one's spouse is at a premium sex is great and emotional needs are constantly being met, then why would a person feel insecure, unless that person has serious psychosocial developmental issues?
If that is the case , then why would you marry a person like that in the first place?
They would have shown those tendencies such as social withdrawal , shyness and paranoia long before you said " I do."

That is why I think that people who say that a partner's insecurity would be an attraction killer for them, could themselves be emotionally insecure , because they are bullying [ emotionally] a person who is in a vulnerable state. Emotional insecurity can sometimes manifest itself as bullying and aggression.

I agree fully with the poster who said that it is not the insecurity that causes the loss of attraction, but the way that insecurity is handled, ie; if the person refuses to admit and own it.
Then it is no different to blameshifting.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Malpheous said:


> You forgot guys and the insecurity of a male OBGYN...


Oh yeah...that one was a nut.



ScarletBegonias said:


> IRefusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.


:rofl:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> There's a fourth group. That's a couple of guys who just need a beer or two. There are more of them around then one thinks...
> 
> I work with a former bartender. Lets just agree to disagree there.
> 
> That's not too much of a problem unless you hit bottom HARD. That can convince your partner that watching TV is really what she wants to do.


stroke- ow
stroke- OW!

LOL that ended that one pretty quick.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The question wasn't whether you agree with the sentiment. The question was what your reaction would be if your husband felt that way. Would you shame him for being insecure and not manning up? Or would you support him through his legitimate feelings of loss?


Support him,of course. To do otherwise is just asking for him to hide his emotions in the future or look for support elsewhere. Aside from the fact that it would make me feel incredibly sh*tty to shame him about anything.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

woman said:


> I think it's the same for everyone. Insecurity is unattractive, whoever you are.


My husband and I both have normal insecurities, neither of us make it the other person's problem nor do we lose sleep over them, and yet neither of us think the other's insecurities are unattractive.

I think I would find someone who had NO insecurities to be unattractive...because they'd be some kind of delusional weirdo if they felt they were perfect.

Does anyone know someone who has NO insecurities? :scratchhead:

I know that Cletus, the guy who started the thread, is a regular person and has regular insecurities...I don't think he meant that having NO insecurities is the only way to be an attractive person.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Just want to clarify here that it is not men *having* the insecurities that is unattractive. Insecurities can't be helped; they are an emotional reaction to something. *How a man addresses his insecurities* is what can be either admirable (attractive) or unadmirable (unattractive) to a woman.
> 
> As I noted, I'm highly attracted to my husband, who has his share of insecurities just like the average guy seems to. He just doesn't let them rule his life . . . or mine. So his insecurities don't detract from my sexual attraction for him.


While I understand that clarification, I suspect it does not help a lot of men because they don't know how to deal with their insecurities in any way. I know I did not. Growing up, I never appreciated that other men had them or dealt with them. My dad never talked about his doubts or insecurities when I was growing up. It wasn't until I let slip my questioning how I was parenting that he opened up about it. That helped a lot. 

So I believed that real men did not have them (or at least hid them and dealt with them on their own). I certainly never talked about them with my wife, as I felt that doing so was showed there was something wrong with me. Yet I know that those issues that I was trying to work on by myself where showing through in my actions in negative ways, including hurting her attraction for me.

Once I figured out how to deal with them in a healthy way, things really improved. But if you don't have that knowledge, you can end up stuck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> _Some_ women? Yeah, probably.
> 
> But I didn't notice any of that in this thread, and honestly I've seen very little of it in others. I do see a lot of miscommunication and projecting, though, from both sides. The vast majority of people aren't at the extremes one way or the other. It always seems to boil down to discussing the extremes, though. And to what end? To poke at insecure guys? They make easy victims and take bait willingly. To poke at women for honest discussions of their desire? Is it any wonder they shut down?
> 
> ...


I generally agree, but I have seen some. Usually, the first reaction from some portion of women (and men) is to say suck it up and deal with it, it is the man's problem, not the woman's. Little if any empathy for him. After a bit of thought, most understand that while it is his issue, the woman has a role in supporting him working through it in a healthy manner.

I agree that there is some projection, as well as a natural defensive reaction to being judged. But I have seen enough of this initial reaction to understand why many men would pause before sharing or think that showing an insecurity is not permitted, particularly if it involves her in any way.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Most responsible doctors out there will tell you if you have a choice,get the vasectomy and don't put your wife through major surgery. Unless she's already going into the OR for other reasons.


This is exactly what happened with us when we discussed permanent birth control. My ob/gyn explained if I had the tubal ligation surgery, I would be taking two weeks off from work. I would be under general anesthesia. It would be an operation in the operating room. The complications are greater for the woman. In contrast, the vasectomy is an outpatient procedure done under a light anesthetic. My husband could return to work the next day if he wanted to, which he did. 

The choice was clear for us.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thepoet said:


> I'm sorry, refusal to get a vasectomy has nothing to do with insecurity or selfishness. Or do you suppose most women want their man to have erectile problems or permanent genital pain?


If I had enough time I would mine this site and find the posts where this concern (reduced quantity or quality of ejaculate) was voiced by more than one man as a contributor to his reluctance to get a vasectomy.

The world is stranger than you can imagine. 

And yes, I had a vasectomy, and yes, I had mild pain for about 15 years afterward. It was still the best birth control decision I ever made.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Coffee Amore said:


> In contrast, the vasectomy is an outpatient procedure done under a light anesthetic..


Best $75.00 co-pay I ever spent.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> In contrast, the vasectomy is an outpatient procedure done under a light anesthetic. My husband could return to work the next day if he wanted to, which he did.


The first one, yes. The second one, not so much. But generally I agree.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Not to derail a thread, but some questions about vasectomies.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a sympathetic person when it comes to physical pain/being "sick"/non SERIOUS injury. I was raised by the daughter of a hypocondriac. Therefore she is and I am a "suck it up" be tough and fight through it type when it comes to non serious sickness/injury. Not the most sympathetic I know but on the good side, when I say im sick or injured, you know Im not crying wolf.

Anyway back to the question.

How in the hell can a VAS cause erectile problems or DECADEs of lingering chronic pain? Unless this sh!t is being done in back alleys by some hack. Isnt it a fairly simple procedure of cutting/cauterizing the vas deferens? Unless there is an infection or something whats with the possible "complications"?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Thepoet said:


> I'm sorry, refusal to get a vasectomy has nothing to do with insecurity or selfishness. Or do you suppose most women want their man to have *erectile problems* or *permanent genital pain?*


 Yep, this was *MY concern*, not even the smallest risk was worth it as the wife.... as I would have NEVER forgiven myself...I would have cursed the day I was born if I allowed that to happen to my husband - I just don't like risks...

I NEED his tool to orgasm, if he got pain down there.. Lord.. that would have destructed our sex life...(Geez that's the greatest thing about being married)....and I would have only had *myself* to blame....that's how strongly I felt about it..

And of course he was pretty happy I care that much cause he wouldn't have wanted to do it anyway...

This is a very reputable website..(Department of Health)....



> What are the risks of vasectomy?
> 
> *Surgical Risks*
> 
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> How in the hell can a VAS cause erectile problems or DECADEs of lingering chronic pain? Unless this sh!t is being done in back alleys by some hack. Isnt it a fairly simple procedure of cutting/cauterizing the vas deferens? Unless there is an infection or something whats with the possible "complications"?


In my case at least, it wasn't chronic pain. It was periodically waking up after having slept on ball wrong (damn, that's an awkward sentence) and having that "kicked in the boys" feeling all day long. Never happened before the surgery, and now 21 years later it rarely does anymore. What exactly caused it I can't say.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Middle of Everything said:


> How in the hell can a VAS cause erectile problems or DECADEs of lingering chronic pain? Unless this sh!t is being done in back alleys by some hack. Isnt it a fairly simple procedure of cutting/cauterizing the vas deferens? Unless there is an infection or something whats with the possible "complications"?


Medical procedures can be funny things. Parts don't always grow where they are supposed to, so a nerve can get cut. Folks slip up during a procedure. Infections can cause issues. Anesthetics cause problems.

As my first one did not full take, they put me under for the second. They must have dug a lot, because I ached for weeks after. Nothing permanent, but I can understand that there is a possibility of complications.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Her lying to you is your issue? RJ and insecurity are your issues. But her lying to questions you asked isn't your issue. It's hers.


You have to go back and read my very first post here at TAM for the specific details. I wasn't asking any questions. Something was said about women under reporting their past, while talking about my son and his GF, and she just gave a sly grin and a smile, or something like that, and it just made me think she also fell into that category. We've had a long, successful marriage. Should I start grilling her on events that may or may not have occurred over two decades ago? I decided not to. If it comes up again, naturally, I may pursue it. But I am trying to not make an issue out of it right now. Like samyeager always says, the past is the past, until it's discussed, then it becomes the present.

BTW, for the record, I had a vasectomy 13 years ago and never had one little issue stemming from it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> My husband and I both have normal insecurities, neither of us make it the other person's problem nor do we lose sleep over them, and yet neither of us think the other's insecurities are unattractive.
> 
> *I think I would find someone who had NO insecurities to be unattractive...because they'd be some kind of delusional weirdo if they felt they were perfect.*
> 
> *Does anyone know someone who has NO insecurities? * :scratchhead:


 Couldn't agree more with this post.:smthumbup:... I read a book on Insecurities a couple yrs ago... So Long, Insecurity: You've Been a Bad Friend to Us: ... We ALL have them.......and they could be about a whole host of things.. it mentioned even if you grew up without a parent, if you never had braces (both of those are true for me)... 

When I was 15... I had a big crush on a Guy... he liked my best friend more than me.. she wasn't even interested in him..so I felt rejected.. in the midst of that I met my husband and because of that rejection ~ that sting that lingered ... in the back of my mind, I worried when HE met my best friend, he might like her more than me... we would all hang out together.....

As we got closer *I shared that insecurity with him*....he probably laughed at me ya know... he did the best thing... he assured me (by words) that it was all about ME /he has no interest in my friend......and always his actions & treatment aligned with those (another reason I felt I could share my vulnerabilities with him)....it's a beautiful thing...










And I am sure he LOVED the fact I was not so high on myself to think "OH who wouldn't want me , I am so beautiful and perfect !!".....that just makes others want to .

He's always known I hate my teeth... I should have gotten braces in my 20's... but he would just tell me they give me character....always with an I love you, you are perfect to me...so I never did! ... it's just not important....His loving me helped me love myself.. That's what we DO...

I asked my husband one day what his greatest insecurity was... his answer: a couple of the older guys at work are physically stronger than him..... he's just not a high test guy... it bothers him a little... but at the end of the day.. do these things really hurt us.. NO...

We're not all going to be the most beautiful, the smartest, the most loved, the most successful, the most admired, the strongest.. but we're still worthy..


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> This is exactly what happened with us when we discussed permanent birth control. My ob/gyn explained if I had the tubal ligation surgery, I would be taking two weeks off from work. I would be under general anesthesia. It would be an operation in the operating room. The complications are greater for the woman. In contrast, the vasectomy is an outpatient procedure done under a light anesthetic. My husband could return to work the next day if he wanted to, which he did.
> 
> The choice was clear for us.


^^^ This was us...I'm genuinely shocked at what a big deal this is. Maybe because I can't imagine, if I did end up getting a tubal ligation, that I'd be depressed about it. I was 100% sure I did not want more children, as was he. So if I'm absolute that I dont' want children....why would I be sad about not being able to conceive? Less medical risks made a V the obvious solution for us.

Then the best bonus came months later once I came off BCP and my drive went through the roof! H says that alone made wearing the frozen peas on his crotch worth it!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right, SA...and also, you can be a confident, self-assured person, and still have an insecurity or two.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> I don't really get your post JCD.
> You just pointed out depending on the subject both gender's insecurities get dismissed. It just looks to me that hypocrisy runs in both genders.


Mmm...for obvious reasons, I think that a man questioning things about his wife's past, someone she was attracted to enough to actually sleep with, someone she might see and interact with again, someone she could actually sleep with again, is slightly more substantial a 'threat' than a picture of a model whom he's never met and probably will never meet.


Tell you what: lets gather all the ladies who had a post nuptial fling with a prior BF with all the men who had sex with a porn model he saw.

Which do you think would be the bigger number?

But I get your point.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Right, SA...and also, you can be a confident, self-assured person, and still have an insecurity or two*.


I found this article below not long ago..How to Recognize Insecurities: 8 Steps -  ..It starts out with just what you said...



> We* all* have insecurities about something at one point or other in our lives. Everyone feels insecure at times, but some are better at managing them while others wear them on their sleeve for all to see.
> 
> Recognizing insecurities, both our own and those of others, is an important part of interacting with others in an empathic, caring, and perceptive way. It isn't about exploiting other people but about recognizing that their perspective, actions, and stance are each colored by their insecurities and may well be the real reason behind an inability to reach a meeting of minds. Grasping the insecurities of another can help you to understand them better and it can also help you to ward off the less thoughtful things that people sometimes say or do to us.


Some of the points...



> Understand what insecurity means in the context of personal growth and well-being. A secure person knows who they are, is not threatened by the growth and brilliance of other people, and is comfortable with their place in the world (but can still be ambitious and strive in a healthy way without wanting to drag down others around them). On the other hand, insecurity in the psychological sense refers to not feeling sure about oneself, including not being sure about who they are or what they believe in. An insecure person is a vulnerable person, easily shaped by the views, opinions, and ideas of others because they're uncertain about their own values and they're unwilling to question the ideas of other people or stand up for themselves. There are different possibilities behind what makes a person insecure:
> 
> *1.* A person may have had poor formative experiences that have stunted aspects of their personality. They may have had chaotic, violent or distressing childhood, adolescent or early adulthood experiences. They may live in fear of someone, have been subjected to very rigid expectations, or have never been allowed to express their feelings.
> 
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> Did you seriously answer me with a clip from a children's cartoon? Is that what that song is really about?


I sure did. There's no song in that clip, just a little lesson in putting your past in perspective.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Insecurities usually stem from fear and shame (emotions that are the negative end of the vulnerability spectrum)...

There is a really good TedTalk by Brene Brown about vulnerability (she also has one on shame) that I think might give insight into an empathetic approach to insecurities.

Brené Brown: The power of vulnerability | Video on TED.com


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I can't take hormonal BC of any sort due to a genetic defect that is considered a "clotting disorder." 

We both hate condoms. 
IUD's freak us out. 

Neither of us want him to get a vasectomy, but we are both terrified of accidental pregnancy--him probably more than me. 

I looked into ablation, but it's expensive and has risks of its own and my obgyn said she wouldn't recommend it over vasectomy. 

So I've reluctantly given him the go ahead. My period was late last month and OMG I cannot tell you the panic. 

I'll admit it, I'd rather have him intact. We'll mourn together, I guess. Mostly it's just fear of the unknown, I think. The stories here from couples who say it was the best thing ever for their sex lives cheer me up.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> JCD, I don't believe that being insecure about something like weight gain is _quite_ the same as being hacked off that an H is salivating over other women's bodies. A better analogy would be a W storing photos of other men and masturbating over them. I don't know any women who do this (but I'm sure there are some), so I don't believe men have been 'tested' in quite the same way, but it's my guess they'd have the tape measure out and be popping Viagra...


I have a hard time believing that women equate GNO's as sacred as the same as looking at a picture.

My point was the entire RAFT of insecurities which strikes females...and men are supposed to be there to prop them up, no matter the cause.

Too many male 'insecurities' and sorry, the female libido is off.

What I find rather crazy is exactly what you describe

A man is sexually aroused by a picture: she has a RIGHT to be insecure? From a picture?

A man is insecure because they are going to a company picnic with Lance Studley, prior BF who works with her, and he needs to 'get over it' according to the preponderance of female voices that I recall.

These are nowhere near equal insecurities...and the female's attitude is MORE, not less, outrageous.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

daffodilly said:


> ^^^ This was us...I'm genuinely shocked at what a big deal this is. Maybe because I can't imagine, if I did end up getting a tubal ligation, that I'd be depressed about it. I was 100% sure I did not want more children, as was he. So if I'm absolute that I dont' want children....why would I be sad about not being able to conceive? Less medical risks made a V the obvious solution for us.
> 
> Then the best bonus came months later once I came off BCP and my drive went through the roof! H says that alone made wearing the frozen peas on his crotch worth it!


Yes...except one little slip and suddenly, Mr. Tickle isn't up to snuff anymore.

I got one and the doctor told a joke which was exacerbated by the 'light anesthetic'. I laughed and he suddenly froze and told me to stop moving.

SCARY. 

Let me add this: For at least a year afterwards, my orgasms frequently caused soreness to pain. Great for the libido, let me tell you. Nothing like the sensation of a light punch to the groin to make you look forward to sex.

We have just as much to lose with a mistake no matter how much less invasive it is.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I can't take hormonal BC of any sort due to a genetic defect that is considered a "clotting disorder."
> 
> We both hate condoms.
> IUD's freak us out.
> ...


Add me to the list of "best thing ever for my sex life". He hasn't had even the slightest issue.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> A man is insecure because they are going to a company picnic with Lance Studley, prior BF who works with her, and he needs to 'get over it' according to the preponderance of female voices that I recall.


 

What is the correct response in your opinion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


Well there's a reason she isn't with him anymore right? I would be sympathetic to that don't get me wrong. But at some point you have to realize this person chose you. 
Unless they are doing things to indicate interest in other people, you guys are together now and that other guy missed his shot.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> What is the correct response in your opinion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> ...


Unless of course the reason she is no longer with him is because he dumped her.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> That's my feeling in general and I could do my best to reassure my SO that that's how I feel...but I'm honest in wondering what else could/should be done in this situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what if it's the 30 something yr old divorced
" _damsel in distress_ " next door who , according to rumors, has slept with a few other women's husbands on your street , who always seem to have something to ask your husband when he's outside cutting the lawn or washing his car?

Would that make you feel a bit insecure?
What if he dismisses your concerns?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You must have been really scared, GI. I can imagine how relieved you were to get your period last month. So glad for you that it arrived . . .

I know I would have to have an abortion if I got pregnant again. My body just cannot handle another pregnancy. So we are really careful. But you never know . . .


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My wife and I have rarely discussed details about our past sex lives. Our numbers are vastly different but neither could state the other's exactly. Mine is 6, hers is 20+ I assume. Since I am right on average there is no doubt many were more well endowed than me. It has never really bothered me. If we went into specifics about our past partners, I expect each of us would have some discomfort. Especially if there were an emotional connection to them as well. There are some things in relationships you just don't need to know....or share.


Amplexor:
just as a short reminder to some of us on your story. your current wife is the one who had the EA in the past? did it go PA at at all?


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> And what if it's the 30 something yr old divorced
> " _damsel in distress_ " next door who , according to rumors, has slept with a few other women's husbands on your street , who always seem to have something to ask your husband when he's outside cutting the lawn or washing his car?
> 
> Would that make you feel a bit insecure?
> What if he dismisses your concerns?



I think I'm just wierd; I would probably laugh and get popcorn. 
But we are in a really good place right now. If we weren't it might be different.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Thunder7 said:


> FW, as an RJ sufferer myself, may I answer that too? Yes, I did. When I was very young. The first 2 GF's I had slept with had more partners than I (including one with a set of brothers - not together though). So, yeah, I had a real problem with it. I was 18 and felt inadequate. As I got older it was not an issue, until just over a year ago, when I found out my W may not have been completely honest with me about her past. Then, it all flared back up again.
> 
> To my credit, I have not burdened her with it, though. It's my issue, not hers.


but if she was not honest with you about her past, then no, it is not "all your issue." IMO


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I can't take hormonal BC of any sort due to a genetic defect that is considered a "clotting disorder."
> 
> We both hate condoms.
> IUD's freak us out.
> ...


Read my post on page 2. Imho my experience is typical. Yea its gonna hurt. No not end of the world. Certainly one hell of a lot less than a tubal. I LOVE my vas!!!!!

Have it done on a friday. Spoil him rotton thru the weekend. Then once the nogo week is up....

Getting "clear" is decided mostly by the number of ejacs he has. Make it your personal and fun goal to get him clear in world record time. You will both enjoy that process together.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> I think I'm just wierd; I would probably laugh and get popcorn.
> But we are in a really good place right now. If we weren't it might be different.


so it kinda depends on you level of " awareness."
Yes?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

jld said:


> My husband cried when our son was diagnosed with cancer. Dd and I were really surprised. And scared.
> 
> Yes, every man has weaknesses. All humans have them.



crying under those circumstances does not demonstrate any weakness. a child with cancer is a horrible, faith shattering event. what happened with your son, jld? you need not share, of course.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> crying under those circumstances does demonstrate any weakness. a child with cancer is a horrible, faith shattering event. what happened with your son, jld? you need not share, of course.


He is still alive, but his cancer came back last year. It was just awful.

His life expectancy is much lower now. We have a meeting with Make A Wish this Sat. I resisted for a long time because I thought it was just giving up on him. But there are some people in middle age who were MAW kids a long time ago. It doesn't mean he is going to die for sure.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> but if she was not honest with you about her past, then no, it is not "all your issue." IMO


Yea and no. I strongly suspect the mrs has had more ONS during her single days than she admitted to. Pretty sure about 75% of women that is true.

Compared to other things. Yawn.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm weird too because if we are in a good place I don't worry, and in a bad place I don't care.
> 
> Like, I care about my husbands fidelity towards me...but ultimately it's not in my hands it's in his. He knows how I feel and if he chooses to do so all I can do is decide my actions.
> 
> ...


Aren't there options between doing nothing and beating him up? Can't a spouse constructively voice their issues or discomfort?

My wife did the latter with a woman that was friends of a neighbor. I was not doing anything inappropriate, and actually did not think this woman was doing anything more than enjoying conversation while over at a friend's party. But it bothered my wife and she brought her discomfort to me. 

I guess I could have told my wife to deal with it because it was her issue, but why do that? That route seemed like a great way to ensure that she never raised issues like that again. So I listened, told her that I did not agree with her perception, but did agree to keep a distance because it was just not a big deal to me. That just seems like the way to address things with a spouse.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Yea and no. I strongly suspect the mrs has had more ONS during her single days than she admitted to. Pretty sure about 75% of women that is true.
> 
> Compared to other things. Yawn.


actually I don't think a lot of ONS in a person's background is necessarily a trivial thing. depends on the definition of ONS. if we're talking about having sex with somone they met that very night, or with somone they barely know. in that case I don't view it much diferently than a man with a background of visiting prostitutes. I think that is not a background many women would like in a husband.......but both kinds of activities are more or less reflecting a 'sex as recreation' type attitude.

anyway, maybe it would be OK for a guy to omit that part of his sexual background...hookers. if he falls in love with somone she might "judge him".....and perhaps not too favorably. perhaps we should not blame him for keeping all that to himself. Its none of her business anyway.....


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

jld said:


> He is still alive, but his cancer came back last year. It was just awful.
> 
> His life expectancy is much lower now. We have a meeting with Make A Wish this Sat. I resisted for a long time because I thought it was just giving up on him. But there are some people in middle age who were MAW kids a long time ago. It doesn't mean he is going to die for sure.


I'm sorry you are going through something so painful.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Aren't there options between doing nothing and beating him up? Can't a spouse constructively voice their issues or discomfort?
> 
> My wife did the latter with a woman that was friends of a neighbor. I was not doing anything inappropriate, and actually did not think this woman was doing anything more than enjoying conversation while over at a friend's party. But it bothered my wife and she brought her discomfort to me.
> 
> I guess I could have told my wife to deal with it because it was her issue, but why do that? That route seemed like a great way to ensure that she never raised issues like that again. So I listened, told her that I did not agree with her perception, but did agree to keep a distance because it was just not a big deal to me. That just seems like the way to address things with a spouse.


Fifteen years ago ,when my wife and I were in marriage counselling, the marriage counselor [ bless her heart!] told us quite a few things about marriage that have always stuck with me.

One of those things she mentioned was about indifference in a relationship.
She said if emotions were being expressed in a relationship in response to some situation , whether they were positive or negative, it meant that there was still vulnerability , and where there is vulnerability there are still feelings of love.
But if things reached the level of indifference.

It's a definite red flag.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Fifteen years ago ,when my wife and I were in marriage counselling, the marriage counselor [ bless her heart!] told us quite a few things about marriage that have always stuck with me.
> 
> One of those things she mentioned was about indifference in a relationship.
> She said if emotions were being expressed in a relationship in response to some situation , whether they were positive or negative, it meant that there was still vulnerability , and where there is vulnerability there are still feelings of love.
> ...


May I say that, while I don't always agree with you (although I do here and in most cases), you always put things in a supremely nonjudgmental, evenhanded and thought-provoking way. I always welcome your contributions. Provoking thought is always better than provoking anger or insult.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> so it kinda depends on you level of " awareness."
> 
> Yes?



Awareness of what?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Refusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.If my options were getting an invasive surgery,staying on chemical birth control,or never having PIV w/him again I would pick never having PIV w/him again if he's too selfish for a minor operation.


A "minor" operation??

This isn't an operation on a foot or a nose. It happens to be in the most vulnerable part of a man's body. No way I could do that. My wife got a hormonal IUD. Best thing ever. Neither of us needed surgery, and it can be easily reversed if we want.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> On the flip side of the coin could a woman be insecure because of pics/video/etc of a woman with a smaller kitty? (dont laugh,enough women are insecure enough that labiaplasty is a real thing) Or even a real small A feel insecure when she meets the DD ex that he seems a little to happy to see again? Hell yea.


Breasts do it all right. One DD woman showing off her cleavage always seems to piss off every other woman around her...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nuclearnightmare said:


> actually I don't think a lot of ONS in a person's background is necessarily a trivial thing. depends on the definition of ONS. if we're talking about having sex with somone they met that very night, or with somone they barely know. in that case I don't view it much diferently than a man with a background of visiting prostitutes. I think that is not a background many women would like in a husband.......but both kinds of activities are more or less reflecting a 'sex as recreation' type attitude.
> 
> anyway, maybe it would be OK for a guy to omit that part of his sexual background...hookers. if he falls in love with somone she might "judge him".....and perhaps not too favorably. perhaps we should not blame him for keeping all that to himself. Its none of her business anyway.....


I would more be moved by someone who showed trust in me enough to GO THERE, expressing an openness to what has happened in their past...but in doing that ---WE play a very significant role -of showing we are worthy of their trust ... not emotionally trampling them with it......what we give allow for them to feel that comfort to open up to us....to allow for that vulnerability .. which can be difficult for many...especially if they have been burned before and have had things thrown in their faces... some vow to never let another in...

What they learned through those experiences... how it affected them....and where they are today- because of it... I would* NEED* this sort of openness from anyone that I wanted to build a life with.... any hint of "it's none of your business".. I would see as a slap in the face ..I would know there is a barrier there -that would affect our compatibility...



cons said:


> Insecurities usually stem from fear and shame (emotions that are the negative end of the vulnerability spectrum)...
> 
> There is a really good TedTalk by Brene Brown about vulnerability (she also has one on shame) that I think might give insight into an empathetic approach to insecurities.
> 
> Brené Brown: The power of vulnerability | Video on TED.com


 Very good video..this is the book that goes along with much spoken there...

The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are: ... I have it, great read :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

A little bit of an outline...

The author set out to prove "Vulnerability" is nothing but WEAKNESS - betrayal even....Her aim was to trample it . What she came to learn was such a struggle for her, this Therapist had to see a Therapist! :scratchhead:



> "Connection is why we are here -it gives purpose & meaning to our lives".





> "*Shame* = Disconnected -feeling we are not worthy of connection"


 With the thousands of stories pouring in to her in her research spanning 10 yrs, she decided to separate the "Whole Hearted" to the "Broken" still struggling with "connection" in Love & Relationships, and the undeniable truth was.....allowing oneself to be vulnerable is a STRENGTH, what separated the 2 was simply ...."they BELIEVED they are worthy of connection, a strong sense of belonging", this allowed them to be more vulnerable before others. 

But so often we FEAR putting ourselves out there, can not bear the risk of HURT, we try to NUMB our emotions -but we can't numb our emotions, so many turn to addictions (drinking, over eating, etc). This is not our answer. 

*** Brene learned this is how the "Whole hearted" live: 

*1.* *Courage *to be IMPERFECT
*2.* *Compassion *to be kind to ourselves 1st
*3*. *Connection *- as a result of Authenticity- the people let go of who they thought they should be -In order to BE who they are
*4. **Fully embraced Vulnerability*- that what makes them vulnerable makes them beautiful.

She Ended with this... "Let ourselves be seen, deeply seen, vulnerably seen, love with our whole hearts, even if no guarantee, Practice gratitude ...."can I love you THIS much"- "I'm just so Grateful" - and Believe we are "enough".


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

FF, you seem like a pretty secure person, and with our discussion of your personality type yesterday, I am not surprised. 

But I do not think you should be afraid to share all of your feelings with your spouse. Vulnerability, as SA has communicated, allows for bonding. We all have insecurities. Some of us talk about them openly on TAM. But every single one of us has them.

I bet your dh is stronger than you think. And if he is not currently, then he can work on it and become stronger. 

I would encourage you to share your heart transparently with him. You may be pleasantly surprised at his reaction.

And if you are not, that is instructive, too.

Do you find you protect him from your feelings? Do you feel you are maybe actually protecting yourself from being disappointed by him?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would more be moved by someone who showed trust in me enough to GO THERE, expressing an openness to what has happened in their past...but in doing that ---WE play a very significant role -of showing we are worthy of their trust ... not emotionally trampling them with it......what we give allow for them to feel that comfort to open up to us....to allow for that vulnerability .. which can be difficult for many...especially if they have been burned before and have had things thrown in their faces... some vow to never let another in...
> 
> What they learned through those experiences... how it affected them....and where they are today- because of it... I would* NEED* this sort of openness from anyone that I wanted to build a life with.... any hint of "it's none of your business".. I would see as a slap in the face ..I would know there is a barrier there -that would affect our compatibility...
> 
> ...



S A

I agree with you. The "none of her business" and related comments were offered in the spirit of irony, to show how faulty such a sentiment is. This type of comment can be tough to pull off in a post..no sarcasm face of 'tongue in cheek' face to paste in!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Theseus said:


> A "minor" operation??
> 
> This isn't an operation on a foot or a nose. It happens to be in the most vulnerable part of a man's body. No way I could do that. My wife got a hormonal IUD. Best thing ever. Neither of us needed surgery, and it can be easily reversed if we want.


When compared to tubal ligation and chemical birth control effects it is minor. Glad you and your wife found a solution that you feel works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is a very reputable website..(Department of Health)....
> 
> 1 A lump in the scrotum, called a granuloma. This is formed from sperm that leak out of the vas deferens into the tissue.


Oh SHIZ. I've had two granulomas. One on my foot and one on my hand. Both required surgery to fix. The one on my hand is where I figured out Novocaine doesn't work on me. 

The thought of that surgery on my nads instead of my hand


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> > A man is insecure because they are going to a company picnic with Lance Studley, prior BF who works with her, and he needs to 'get over it' according to the preponderance of female voices that I recall.
> 
> 
> What is the correct response in your opinion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are missing the point of my post.

Right off the top of my head, I can name four female posters who think that a woman whose husband looks at ANY porn whatsoever is entitled to, and in fact SHOULD be insecure, furious, and fully justified in feeling disrespected, treated rudely or having her emotional feelings trampled on. FOR A PICTURE.

The standard argument is she feels threatened, she is insecure, she doesn't want my sexual imagination being spent on these 'other women' (i.e. pictures), and I need to remove myself from that 'temptation' which could have negative impacts upon our marriage, even if they are only in her own mind.

Half the female posters in TAM would agree and I'm betting another quarter would be sympathetic. The last quarter would airily say "Well, that's men for you. What are you going to do?"

And yet.

If I said to her "NO, we are NOT going to the company picnic. Lance Studley will be there. You bonked him sideways for a year. You had a SERIOUS relationship. I don't want your sexual MEMORIES to be rekindled and I want to keep you away from any 'temptation' that nostalgia for a former lover would bring."

And yet, to a female, I'm betting the TAMettes would universally say 'get over yourself! He's a friend of mine (I was never a friend to any of these pictures), I am not going to offend him by rejecting him (My wife is not less important than a picture), and you are being an insecure dolt (but you are not by being insecure about PICTURES???)

Huh.

I am saying that if a women is insecure about porn, she should be PERFECTLY WILLING to never see any of her former boyfriends or lovers ever again since they are setting the 'insecurity bar' at that level: I feel insecure, so whatever you are doing is not allowed.

But it doesn't work that way, does it? Men are expected to put up with this where many women will be appalled at far lesser offenses on the part of men.

I am sympathetic. You can't unf*ck a man. But I am outlining one of the logical consequences of that line of thinking re porn or husbands working around pretty women or whatever.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm just not great at mate-guarding. It feels defensive in a way that isn't comfortable for me to do or for me to be the recipient of. I don't talk to any of my exes, I have no idea where they are but *I have a good sense of when I'm being dug for details about them to use against me later and it's one of the more horrifying feelings for me.*
> 
> I short-hand this all as "I can't be with a jealous person," but it's not about them, it's about how free I feel in a relationship. I can see some people view jealous feelings as a way that your SO cares about you but it always has given me an allergic reaction. I had to find someone who feels the same way so I could freely share my feelings.
> 
> I know I'm weird.


It seems from the meat of your post that you don't have an immediate reaction to your hubby looking at another woman, perhaps even with a lustful thought in his head. Granted, you would have a serious problem with lustful ACTS.

And this is fine. It is not hypocritical at all. You can't control what the other person thinks, though sometimes both genders try.

And I think a lot of women don't like talking about their exes for just the reason I bolded: They don't want to feel squicky about some guy getting his jollies off of prior relationships, they don't want these things thrown in their faces, and they don't want to feel any pressure to do things that they'd done before but in retrospect, didn't actually enjoy.

I understand and sympathize with all that (THOUGH...I have questions of 'if you supposedly love me SO MUCH MORE, why am I getting less, not more? This is human flaw too.)


To summarize my position in one sentence, I have a problem with people who say this: "I have the right to be jealous and insecure about PICTURES but you have no justifiable reason to be jealous or insecure about PEOPLE."

That is a non starter for me.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm selectively ok with insecurities.The sex count,yeah I can see people being insecure about it and I'm ok with that.
> The girls night out thing,eh,it's tough to make a judgment on men who are insecure about that one. I don't trust myself to go out with the girls to a bar or club so I can't expect him to trust me. The bigger equipment thing would be a TOTAL turn off.Don't go worrying your handsome little head over another man's junk.It's unattractive.
> 
> Refusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.If my options were getting an invasive surgery,staying on chemical birth control,or never having PIV w/him again I would pick never having PIV w/him again if he's too selfish for a minor operation.


Just wondering, would you be insecure if your husband said you were much looser and not as stimulating as his ex? I think at some point it really depends on the man's experience with this issue. Hard to make a blanket statement.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm selectively ok with insecurities.The sex count,yeah I can see people being insecure about it and I'm ok with that.
> The girls night out thing,eh,it's tough to make a judgment on men who are insecure about that one. I don't trust myself to go out with the girls to a bar or club so I can't expect him to trust me. The bigger equipment thing would be a TOTAL turn off.Don't go worrying your handsome little head over another man's junk.It's unattractive.
> 
> Refusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.If my options were getting an invasive surgery,staying on chemical birth control,or never having PIV w/him again I would pick never having PIV w/him again if he's too selfish for a minor operation.



Just wondering, would you be insecure if your husband said you were much looser and not as stimulating as his ex? I think at some point it really depends on the man's experience with this issue. Hard to make a blanket statement.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I need to add one point which is frequently overlooked by women, though I don't know why as anyone with a clingy ex boyfriend should know this instinctively.

Whatever the woman may think for herself regarding an ex, she is not dealing ONLY with HER thoughts on the finality of the relationship.

Once you've 'been with' a guy, may of them think that 'Yes' means yes and No means 'Maybe'. 

For a woman, she thinks "I left him for a reason" though sometimes the mists of history can blur that reason (another perennial spousal worry)

The Ex is thinking "I had her once. I can probably do it again."

So it isn't only about 'insecurity' of his wife/gf/whatever leaving him. It is also the potential discomfort of dealing with Mr. Baggage who may decide to make a play...and now wife has to find a way to deal with it (uncomfortable for her) or the husband has to deal with it...and frankly, men like low drama. 

Much better to avoid the situation altogether. There is very little 'win' for the husband here unless the woman in question metaphorically cuts the balls off of the offending male...and few women are willing to do that, being either non confrontational or attempting to nurse along her relationships, since SHE feels safe, knowing she is over him. 

So there are more issues than what a woman wants or feels here.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm just not great at mate-guarding. It feels defensive in a way that isn't comfortable for me to do or for me to be the recipient of. I don't talk to any of my exes, I have no idea where they are but I have a good sense of when I'm being dug for details about them to use against me later and it's one of the more horrifying feelings for me.
> 
> I short-hand this all as "I can't be with a jealous person," but it's not about them, it's about how free I feel in a relationship. I can see some people view jealous feelings as a way that your SO cares about you but it always has given me an allergic reaction. I had to find someone who feels the same way so I could freely share my feelings.
> 
> I know I'm weird.


FF, I am a little confused. It sounds like your SO does not do the "digging for details" thing, right? He trusts you and you trust him? And that is why you feel comfortable sharing your feelings, all of them, with him?

To me, that sounds healthy. And I am not getting the impression that "mate-guarding," which I had to look up, is. And it sounds like a lot of work. And who can really be watching out for their spouse all the time? It just does not sound realistic.

If you trust yourself, and you trust him, and he feels the same, what is the problem? Maybe I am just really dense here, but you don't sound weird at all. It sounds like a very healthy, sound relationship, built on trust.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Just wondering, would you be insecure if your husband said you were much looser and not as stimulating as his ex? I think at some point it really depends on the man's experience with this issue. Hard to make a blanket statement.


For some reason my reply to you never showed up. 

My statements aren't blanket statements. I'm speaking for myself which I'm fully free to do. 

My husband wouldn't be my husband if he was so hung up on another woman's snatch that he would tell me to my face she was tighter or better somehow. 

What part of my post tells you I'm an ass hole who goes around telling a man I prefer my exes junk to his?

seriously. I said he doesn't have to worry about it. It's unattractive TO ME for a man to go around comparing his penis to my exes. He would have no idea what size they are bc I'd never talk about that sort of thing with him so it would be ridiculous in the first place.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> For some reason my reply to you never showed up.
> 
> My statements aren't blanket statements. I'm speaking for myself which I'm fully free to do.
> 
> ...


Your comment seemed to come across to me as this "insecurity" is something that was generally unappealing to women. I tend to think some men are insecure because of what they have been told by women. (Obviously not all men.)

I wasn't suggesting you were an *******. I think women want men to not be insecure about this issue (as you suggested) yet men often hear comments from women about this topic that give them mixed signals. If women heard the same thing back from men I think they would also be insecure.That's where my question is coming from. It was not an attack on you.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm selectively ok with insecurities.The sex count,yeah I can see people being insecure about it and I'm ok with that.
> The girls night out thing,eh,it's tough to make a judgment on men who are insecure about that one. I don't trust myself to go out with the girls to a bar or club so I can't expect him to trust me. The bigger equipment thing would be a TOTAL turn off.Don't go worrying your handsome little head over another man's junk.It's unattractive.
> 
> Refusing to get a vasectomy is VERY unattractive in a husband.If my options were getting an invasive surgery,staying on chemical birth control,or never having PIV w/him again I would pick never having PIV w/him again if he's too selfish for a minor operation.





TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Your comment seemed to come across to me as this "insecurity" is something that was generally unappealing to women. I tend to think some men are insecure because of what they have been told by women. (Obviously not all men.)
> 
> I wasn't suggesting you were an *******. I think women want men to not be insecure about this issue (as you suggested) yet men often hear comments from women about this topic that give them mixed signals. If women heard the same thing back from men I think they would also be insecure.That's where my question is coming from. It was not an attack on you.


Now here's my original comment. Please do me the favor of pointing out where I imply it's generally unappealing to women. My intention was to speak only for myself and I thought I did that clear enough for folks to understand.

I don't know who these women are that go around telling their partner he's lacking.

Women hear enough things to make them insecure on a regular basis while being taught at the same time to handle a man's ego about his thingy with velvet gloves.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

With regard to the invasiveness of male or female sterility procedures, there is a non invasive procedure called Essure (coils) for women that is less invasive than a vasectomy for a man. There are options depending on what is desired within a coupleship.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> So, what does constructively discussing look like to you? For me, it's as simple as giving a good heads up and then just observing behavior.


This seems reasonable to me. My question (and perhaps objection) was about your posts that seem to imply that they only options were never raise the issue or beat down your spouse about it. The above tells me that was not your intent.

I agree that it is about finding someone that is compatible with where you are on the spectrum. Glad you found that.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Amplexor:
> just as a short reminder to some of us on your story. your current wife is the one who had the EA in the past? did it go PA at at all?


No, it did not go physical. It was a LDEA. They never met. The story is stickied in Reconciliation for anyone interested.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Now here's my original comment. Please do me the favor of pointing out where I imply it's generally unappealing to women. My intention was to speak only for myself and I thought I did that clear enough for folks to understand.
> 
> I don't know who these women are that go around telling their partner he's lacking.
> 
> Women hear enough things to make them insecure on a regular basis while being taught at the same time to handle a man's ego about his thingy with velvet gloves.


Me neither. In fact I've never been in the company of women who sit around comparing men's penises, either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never come across it - outside of TAM.

I don't have a problem with discussing numbers with my SO, but I'd refuse point blank to discuss details of my ex lovers with him. Even though there isn't an awful lot to tell, fortunately, they hold as little interest for him as his exes to do for me.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Me neither. In fact I've never been in the company of women who sit around comparing men's penises, either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never come across it - outside of TAM.
> 
> I don't have a problem with discussing numbers with my SO, but I'd refuse point blank to discuss details of my ex lovers with him. Even though there isn't an awful lot to tell, fortunately, they hold as little interest form him as his exes to do for me.


The strange part to me is knowing there are people out there who prod a person for these details. I cant understand the reason behind doing that. The last thing DH wants is to have me paint him a vivid picture of past lovers. He'd still come out on top but that's not the point.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> The strange part to me is knowing there are people out there who prod a person for these details. I cant understand the reason behind doing that. The last thing DH wants is to have me paint him a vivid picture of past lovers. He'd still come out on top but that's not the point.


:iagree:

I just can't imagine saying to my SO: "So tell me, how good was Olivia in bed? Did she have small or large boobs? Were they firmer than mine?" I know as sure as he!l he wouldn't _volunteer_ that sort of information to me, and I can't imagine under _what _circumstances I would ask for it.

As for me volunteering intimate information about my exes... I just can't imagine doing it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am actually the type *that would be curious* and want to hear about past experiences (sorry) so in it's own way, it's good we don't have them.. He wouldn't ask, would rather not know ..... but I WOULD... that's just the way I am.. he'd come forth about it if I wanted to hear..that's the way he is.. (and I much appreciate) 

I'd be interested to know the where's, everything they did... why it didn't work out...for me, the mystery of it would be more powerful in my mind - making it bigger ...somehow that would deflate some knowing more details.. I don't mean boob sizes and comparisons like that... but I could see me asking if she was a screamer -for instance...that could be a funny conversation!...

And if I was brave enough to ask, I darn well better be prepared to not get pi$$y about it or cause waves.. how very very important.

I just REALLY love the freedom of sharing ALL with a Lover...it may take a while to get to that place, that sheer comfort ...yet I feel it is a worthy place to aspire too......Some are THAT open with each other...I've seen posts like that here...where both had pasts and they freely shared like that....I thought it was great...they enjoyed being that way with other - there was no issues with it !! 

Such a conversation would likely only happen once or twice....but just the freedom to do it - I would still see as a bonding somehow...and to slay some curiosity at the same time.....probably even get some good laughs out of it..

I don't expect others to understand it...but some of us are like this...It doesn't make us wrong..it's not born out of insecurity either... just a lust to talk & share about our lives & all we've experienced and ...well... some of the those along the way...how it shaped us...where we learned some sexual techniques even... it's all good... 

I'd also be happy to share what ever a partner asked of me.. so long as I felt HE could handle it....it's here...we do need that wisdom....to know each other well enough -that one isn't asking prematurely..

For most this is very taboo...even disrespectful I suppose many see it ..but as in all things, we're just not all the same......I just don't think it is a can of worms for EVERY couple...though that is ON the rarer side, I'll agree.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Oldfaithful said:


> Awareness of what?


Like awareness of the state of the relationship and the fact that the other person might actually be wasting her time.
Confidence of what the outcome would be , even without your intervention.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, SA. I am transparent, too.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I just can't imagine saying to my SO: "So tell me, how good was Olivia in bed? Did she have small or large boobs? Were they firmer than mine?" I know as sure as he!l he wouldn't _volunteer_ that sort of information to me, and I can't imagine under _what _circumstances I would ask for it.
> 
> As for me volunteering intimate information about my exes... I just can't imagine doing it.


ok now I have asked about their bodies :rofl: 

but never anything else. DH has NEVER asked me anything about my sexual past. He has a strict "dont need to know" policy. We know which sexual acts weren't ever done w/anyone else and he knows he's the only one to give me an O...maybe that's why he doesn't ask for more information? He's blissfully happy with the knowledge he already has 

It's possible he doesn't ask bc he gets really enthusiastic feedback from me and tons of praise. I imagine if I was more hush about my thoughts he'd have some questions..maybe.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

In retrospect, I feel that ignorance was bliss. I wish I could un-know things about my wife's past. Threads like this make me think of this scene:

Classic Movie Line #15 - YouTube


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am actually the type *that would be curious* and want to hear about past experiences (sorry) so in it's own way, it's good we don't have them.. He wouldn't ask, would rather not know ..... but I WOULD... that's just the way I am.. he'd come forth about it if I wanted to hear..that's the way he is.. (and I much appreciate)
> 
> *I'd be interested to know the where's, everything they did... why it didn't work out...for me, the mystery of it would be more powerful in my mind - making it bigger ...somehow that would deflate some knowing more details.. I don't mean boob sizes and comparisons like that... but I could see me asking if she was a screamer -for instance...that could be a funny conversation!...*
> 
> ...


I'd be careful with that, not that you have to be  My STBW, the woman who is unshakable and unphased when it comes to sexual things, and the past and things like that...we had a talk the other night where she learned some things about my past, her assumptions were turned on end, and it shook her to the core.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I just can't imagine saying to my SO: "So tell me, how good was Olivia in bed? Did she have small or large boobs? Were they firmer than mine?" I know as sure as he!l he wouldn't _volunteer_ that sort of information to me, and I can't imagine under _what _circumstances I would ask for it.
> 
> As for me volunteering intimate information about my exes... I just can't imagine doing it.



My wife knows I had a bizarre sexual past without details. She also knows that, that person is no longer who I am now. Why ask about things that even I care not to relate to any longer. She also understands what is important, my love for her and my sons, without question. 

Would I have insecurity if our pasts were reversed? Probably not, if she also treated her past the way I have and do. It is what it is, neither one of us can do much about it but simply learn and grow up.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *Lol, SA. I am transparent, too*.


 I really enjoyed your "meeting your husband" story ... how you just threw yourself in his arms and confessed ALL....and how he embraced you ..... I found it humbly heartwarming somehow.... that was unabashedly QUICK though!! I wouldn't dare advise anyone to do that.....ha ha ... 

But he saw something in you, that he couldn't walk away from...a woman who couldn't hide anything from him...that's a beautiful thing..

But yeah... anything I'd ask, I'd fully give in return.... and then some.....I think that's fair. 

At the end of the day, it's the HERE & NOW.... what do we have NOW.. if that was shaky, these places SHOULDN'T be visited... but if a couple has history, cherished memories behind them....has gotten through some mountain climbs, knows what they are made of & how deep their love runs...I just can't see anything shaking that.. but that is just my limited perspective...




> *samyeagar said*:* I'd be careful with that, not that you have to be My STBW, the woman who is unshakable and unphased when it comes to sexual things, and the past and things like that...we had a talk the other night where she learned some things about my past, her assumptions were turned on end, and it shook her to the core*.


IN your situation though this might have been a GOOD thing... No?? It may help her relate to your feelings more... I realize my view is limited on this . I just know how I am geared. I could have named myself "CuriosityKilledTheCat" on here and it'd be as true as my SA username. 

Interesting though, Samyeagar!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I just can't hide and I don't want him to, either. The more transparent he is with me, the closer I feel to him.

SA, I told him everything up front because I just did not want to get hurt again, and so soon. And I did not feel like wasting anybody's time, you know?

I needed him to know the worst of me, and to make his own free will decision on if it was all too bad for him to accept or not.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Like awareness of the state of the relationship and the fact that the other person might actually be wasting her time.
> 
> Confidence of what the outcome would be , even without your intervention.



Even if we were in a bad patch j would still know he wouldn't do anything. But I think I would be more upset with her.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> I am actually the type that would be curious and want to hear about past experiences (sorry) so in it's own way, it's good we don't have them.. He wouldn't ask, would rather not know ..... but I WOULD... that's just the way I am.. he'd come forth about it if I wanted to hear..that's the way he is.. (and I much appreciate)
> 
> I'd be interested to know the where's, everything they did... why it didn't work out...for me, the mystery of it would be more powerful in my mind - making it bigger ...somehow that would deflate some knowing more details.. I don't mean boob sizes and comparisons like that... but I could see me asking if she was a screamer -for instance...that could be a funny conversation!...
> 
> And if I was brave enough to ask, I darn well better be prepared to not get pi$$y about it or cause waves.. how very very important.


This is the thing, though, SA, it would seem that many ask and then DO get pi$$y at what they hear. To me this can be highly destructive.

My SO and I met in middle-age. I'd been divorced for many years and he's never been married. Obviously we both had histories by that time and, whilst we share everything else, intimate details of that history is something neither of us have the desire to share. 

I do remember him mentioning something about fluffy purple handcuffs in the early months of dating, but I know for a fact that I've never alluded to my ex-H's truly _enormous _penis. He really doesn't need that sort of information


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Cosmos said:


> *This is the thing, though, SA, it would seem that many ask and then DO get pi$$y at what they hear. To me this can be highly destructive*.


 I agree with you...that is why I put that line in my post..it's paramount ... no doubt...

I am just speaking for *the few* who can GO there... I don't think it makes them bad people... if they enjoy that sort of thing... that's all... I've seen their posts... and I thought it was great they can Do that...and share so openly.... I even gave them likes for it...If I had a past.....I could just see me desiring that sort of openness...easily.

A few yrs back, we enjoyed a little wild phase.. we knew it would pass... we went to the strip club for a time...I always let my husband get a lap dance (no touching-air grinding) and I'd ask him with a  upon his return if he got a hard on... (I wanted to hear he did - shows his Test is working fine...YES!!!)... we talked about the strippers, I knew who his favorite was.. we talked about his thoughts..feelings... . I wasn't offended by these things... we're very open like that... 

I mean this is not SEX mind you....but MANY would feel being married...what the hell are we doing [email protected]#$ ....that this is crossing some LINE...but to us, we wasn't.. (not expecting others to understand this either)... Emotionally falling for another and touching/ the sexual is OUR LINE....erotic entertainment- we are very open with / fantasies.....we enjoy it....

Now of course if I felt he wanted those women over me.... or thinking about his favorite when he is "doing me"...this wouldn't go over so well.. but I know what I am to him... I have some insecurities outside of my husband, but not in regards to him and his love to me... and he knows what he IS to me as well...

Just like some Porn, if the guy was using it over his wife....hiding it / lying about it.... I can see how she would look upon it as her mortal enemy (I would too!)-that would cause any women to feel insecure.."Why am I not good enough?"....but if it just enhanced their enjoyment together...they shared openly -she feeling she is his #1..he would choose HER every single time (yet her drive is lower)....it doesn't have to be a bad thing...(but of course many just feel it is morally wrong -and that's Ok too)



> *My SO and I met in middle-age. I'd been divorced for many years and he's never been married. Obviously we both had histories by that time and, whilst we share everything else, intimate details of that history is something neither of us have the desire to share.*


 And this is good...you are compatible in this way.... but I'd still be curious to ask...

But ....*I'd ask about asking before I asked*....that was a mouthful.....and respect his feelings.. Even if I wanted to know more...cause really... its *not* important.. to the here and now... I get that fully...

I'd just prefer the more Open soul over the one who refused or felt it as all in the past, you don't touch.... the END. 



> *I do remember him mentioning something about fluffy purple handcuffs in the early months of dating, but I know for a fact that I've never alluded to my ex-H's truly enormous penis. He really doesn't need that sort of information*


 A thread started on this here >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/172162-if-he-asked.html#post7400706

Most men are not going to ask....sounds they wouldn't get the truth anyway....if they are average -they can count on it...

But really...what does that speak.. that Bigger really IS better ...by our hiding it .. I would think this feeds into their insecurities...

Even this depends , doesn't it.... 

If the truth really was in how it is Used / how we feel about the man ... vs His size... men could lay down some of these insecurities...

So let the woman express this fully ..what HIS does for her in the here & NOW......so he KNOWS he is *the MAN*, that HIS really is the ultimate, worthy of worship at the throne.... who gets her to squirm and brings her to the heights... and in that breath, build him up in all else he does that brightens her world...

I guess I believe there is a way to have these delicate conversations and still make our lover feel *the ideal.*.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> I really enjoy when my husband shakes me up like that, honestly. Shock me, it's how I learn about you.


It certainly changed some of the sexual dynamics immediately, and I think for the better.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

samyeagar said:


> *It certainly changed some of the sexual dynamics immediately, and I think for the better*.


See opening up was a good thing, so what is wrong with a little shaking ..... at 1st it sounded it was a bad thing.. but here it sounds you are having some great after shocks...making it worth it ...(didn't really think your sex life could climb any higher -you have to be the most active couple on TAM- you know this)

Do you regret sharing your past... I am confused?


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Now here's my original comment. Please do me the favor of pointing out where I imply it's generally unappealing to women. My intention was to speak only for myself and I thought I did that clear enough for folks to understand.
> 
> I don't know who these women are that go around telling their partner he's lacking.
> 
> Women hear enough things to make them insecure on a regular basis while being taught at the same time to handle a man's ego about his thingy with velvet gloves.


Do a search on this forum for penis or penis size and I think there are several women who have commented on size as an issue. Having said that, this forum seems to have less of that than other forums. And then there is the Women's Penis Size Preference" chart that lists 8" as the ideal. 

I guess I don't think it is surprising that penis size is an insecurity of many men. 

Go back to my original question, and tell me where I was blasting you like you are suggesting. I asked a question about how you would react if the situation was reversed. I think maybe you interpreted that much more aggressively than it was meant.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Your post got me thinking, SA... Please don't think for one minute that I'm criticizing you (I always admire your insight and posts), but I wonder if it's somehow easier to have / envisage this sort of total openness when there have never been any previous sex partners on either side? After a lifetime in a happy, stable, secure marriage, there really are no 'ghosts' from the past for either of you... Coming from that vantage point, curiosity might appear completely innocuous - but in reality, human nature being what it is, curiosity has the potential to kill the cat.

I guess from my point of view it's a case of "we cannot un-know what we know," and I see no benefit in even going there.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

Cletus said:


> When you think you've been around the block enough times to have seen most everything there is to see, it's nice to surprised once in a while. That's happened recently here regarding male insecurity.
> 
> I've now seen many threads and many men recount how they're not comfortable with a woman who has a sexual past above their personal limit, whatever that is. Who are unwilling to "allow" their spouse to go out for a night with the girls any place another man might be within a quarter mile radius. Men who are threatened by a previous boyfriend with bigger equipment than them - and let's face it - if you're average, half the guys out there are bigger than you. Men who think that deflowering a virgin is the whole brass ring. Men who won't get a vasectomy because they're worried about losing x% of their ejaculate volume.
> 
> ...


Apologies for skipping over the giant thread. I just wanted to say I feel most people would find this level of control off putting. Women like confidence. And when a man acts like that it reads as unconfident.

And for men like this: You cannot and should not live your life in fear. You will be miserable, and make her life miserable as well. The real issues are the feelings about yourself. You should talk openly with your wife about your fear of her being around other men, and your difficulty trusting her, and work through them with her. A man is allowed to have weaknesses and difficulties. You are not less powerful or less "manly" by admitting difficulties and working through them. The ability to open yourself up to difficult feelings is only for the most confident and brave men, because it's one of the hardest things for a person to do.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

ETA: Sorry, this is super-long.

I try to stay off these debate threads as much as possible because they remind me too much of a certain internet meme (one of the earliest ones) comparing arguing online to a specific athletic event. I guess that's self-fulfilling, because here I am.



Cosmos said:


> ....but I wonder if it's somehow easier to have / envisage this sort of total openness when there have never been any previous sex partners on either side?)


I'll double-down on SA's post here, because Lady Convection and I did have previous partners, and we have been totally open and frank about our histories, in the past and even touch it every once in a while in current conversation.

Lady C is ten years older than me, was with her 1st H for 8-9 years. She is a lot more experienced than I am, with more partners. Because she is scrupulously honest, when I asked, she answered - even knowing it might blow up in her face. We've talked about past experiences, about her past relationships in and out of the bedroom.

Was it hard to hear? Yes and no. I have some jealousy issues but a) they are more based in what happens in the present and b) they are mine to deal with and if I picture her with someone else, I can feel a momentary discomfort and then push it away. The past is the past, right? None of this haunts me. I think she is more jealous than I am; she asks less questions, and that's okay too. If she asked, I would answer.

On the plus side, I feel like I know her better than anyone else alive. And the fact that she trusted to me to open up actually made us feel more secure, because I think that every time a couple can navigate subject matter that is laden with landmines and come through unscathed, they grow together.

Also, because we have had those long discussions, I don't feel like we will ever have arguments about specific sex acts. If she did something with someone in the past, I know why and I know why she does or doesn't like it. Not get to graphic, but she is not a fan of me finishing in her mouth. She never has been. It's happened a few times but those were her calls, when she was feeling it in the moment. Did she do it for other guys before me? Yeah but I know she hates it. I don't feel less loved or less respected because I know why she did it at the time, I know what she was feeling at the time and where she was in her life and what drove those decisions (most of which involved things outside the bedroom).

I even asked the "am I biggest?" question. She said I was and has also said I am the best lover she has ever had. Now, there are two possibilities. Either she is telling the truth (and her MO is to always tell the truth) ... or she isn't. Either way, she is still a fun, enthusiastic partner - and frankly, the way she is constantly staring at and groping my junk, even if I am not the biggest, she must like something about it. If she came to me and said, "Well, so-and-so was bigger," I'd just be like, "Well why didn't you say so?" I wouldn't feel lesser, because her actions say she likes my package just fine - and don't we always push actions over words around here?

Last, I will say that I have *never* thrown any of this in her face, for any reason - not even when we have a bad fight (and we have had some humdingers), She took a chance opening up to me and I know she feared just that reaction by me - so this information went on a short list of things I can never, ever say to her, under any circumstances, no matter how mad I am.

And honestly, there is no brewing resentment. Neither of us make apologies for what we did before we met each other. It just is and it's how we got to where we are. So what if some guy made her scream in pleasure 20 years ago. She screams for me now.

I wanted to know all about her, the good and bad. I know this had to come from a place of trust. She knows I don't weaponize her past and we can even laugh about things she did. She was in her early 30s and had a FWB with a 21-year old and she said he was good. When I heard that, I just laughed and told her she got with me because she needed a young d**k to keep up with her.

So what's the point of my ramble here? I guess it's about the people involved in the relationship and their level of discourse. Maybe it's rare to get two people together who don't have some burning jealousy over pasts. But it can work. People don't have to *bury* their pasts.

Or she and I are just oddballs. Would not be the first time!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That was just an excellent post, Convection. Excellent.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Convection said:


> So what's the point of my ramble here? I guess it's about the people involved in the relationship and their level of discourse. Maybe it's rare to get two people together who don't have some burning jealousy over pasts. But it can work. People don't have to *bury* their pasts.
> 
> Or she and I are just oddballs. Would not be the first time!


Excellent post, Convection. I don't think you and your W are oddballs at all, anymore than I think SA and her H are oddballs. 

Perhaps when there's mutual emotional maturity (as with you and your W), it's possible to have complete openness about these things - which is great. Sadly, we hear all too often in some of the threads on TAM, though, how these conversations backfire and go badly wrong.

I think with my SO and I, I feel a strange sense of loss because we met late in life... He never married and doesn't have children, and I'm a divorcee (of many years) with one adult child. He would have _loved_ to have had children, and I would have _loved_ to have had more children, but I'm now too old. For us it's a case of concentrating on what we have _together,_ rather than revisiting one another's pasts or thinking of what 'could have been.'


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cosmos, please don't feel that whatever other people do is what you need to do. I am always promoting transparency, but that may not be right for every situation. Or maybe it needs to come gradually, as trust increases. I think it is a good idea overall, but the devil is in the details sometimes, you know?

I am happy you have found love. I am sure your husband is very grateful for you.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

jld said:


> Cosmos, please don't feel that whatever other people do is what you need to do. I am always promoting transparency, but that may not be right for every situation. Or maybe it needs to come gradually, as trust increases. I think it is a good idea overall, but the devil is in the details sometimes, you know?
> 
> I am happy you have found love. I am sure your husband is very grateful for you.


No, I've never really been the sort of person to conform to other people's opinions - too much of a rebel  We each have to find our own path in life, and do what feels right for us.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> * Cosmos said:*
> Your post got me thinking, SA... Please don't think for one minute that I'm criticizing you (I always admire your insight and posts),* but I wonder if it's somehow easier to have / envisage this sort of total openness when there have never been any previous sex partners on either side? After a lifetime in a happy, stable, secure marriage, there really are no 'ghosts' from the past for either of you...* Coming from that vantage point, curiosity might appear completely innocuous - but in reality, human nature being what it is, curiosity has the potential to kill the cat.


Me & H was talking again about this tonight, after I read these last few posts......often we discuss "*What IF*" scenarios...we reach very deep....imagining how we may FEEL if in those shoes... we can't really KNOW ... having not experienced ... yet there are times ... I can get worked up on some -to the point of tears.....like imaging Illness/wheelchair/ sexless... some scenarios I *don't* feel I could handle- I do consider myself pretty self aware...even if/when it makes me look BAD... borrowing Convections phrase about his wife.. I am "scrupulously honest" ...this is not one of those things for me, I do feel I would be resilient -but then again, THAT PURELY DEPENDS ON HOW THE MAN TREATS ME in the here and now..

On this one...we *don't* see it the same ...so my husband wouldn't be a Convection here (Loved that post by the way!







)....

*My H is EXACTLY like you Cosmos*...IF there was a past, he sees absolutely NOTHING good coming out of sharing details.. wouldn't offer it ...(though he'd still be honest if I was dumb enough to ask)...and yes he thinks it's DUMB...

He even challenged me to think I'd be setting myself up ...like coming in off the streets, walking into a boxing ring & saying "come on , hit me! "... (a little masochism there)..... but yet....his knowing me the way he does..to the core...he agreed....I'd still want to know...that's just how I am wired...Some of this is likely a personality thing even. 

I so resonate with Convection with things he has said ..(these could be other subjects as well).....



> *Convection said:* .......*.I feel like I know her better than anyone else alive. And the fact that she trusted to me to open up actually made us feel more secure, because I think that every time a couple can navigate subject matter that is laden with landmines and come through unscathed, they grow together....*
> 
> *I wanted to know all about her, the good and bad. I know this had to come from a place of trust.* She knows I don't weaponize her past and we can even laugh about things she did. ....
> 
> ...


I really think I would see this like an "Elephant in the garage" ...every now & then a curiosity would linger...and like my 1st post .... I'd likely build it up in my head even higher than it might have been.... you already know he banged X many partners...(most agree we should be honest here with #'s).....it's already on the table... so why not pull that veil back a little...

Some say *>> *"WHY open it -that's CRAZY , maybe even relationship suicide"..









But others may feel differently *>>* a "I want to know you to the depths...what was you like when you were young...your dreams , who you fell in love with, what happened... what you learned about yourself from that relationship, the good , the bad, the ugly"..... it's deep....these things could easily lead to some intimacy talk....it's a part of our story after all... a minority of us WANT to go to those places.... 

But yeah...it is Delicate...we'd be very wise to understand what each other is made of...and what they can handle emotionally...there should be a comfort we can feel with each other [email protected]# 

And if one's emotions got ship wrecked in the process, finding it overwhelming....it just allows for the other to lovingly reassure them -that they are the BOMB, the one the sun rises & sets on in their lives TODAY...the here & NOW...I wouldn't think such a conversation would dare be had if the sex wasn't KICKING to the hilts [email protected]#$ 

I guess I am one of those people who feels Love can reach to the depths and we can travel to any place together...if that foundation is there....and we are OPEN to that sort of sharing...that's just my mindset.... 

Enjoyed Convections explaining how a little humor here can work it's wonders....



> *Convection said* :I wanted to know all about her, the good and bad. I know this had to come from a place of trust. She knows I don't weaponize her past *and we can even laugh about things she did*. She was in her early 30s and had a FWB with a 21-year old and she said he was good. *When I heard that, I just laughed and told her she got with me because she needed a young d**k to keep up with her*.





> *Cosmos said:*
> No, I've never really been the sort of person to conform to other people's opinions - too much of a rebel .*We each have to find our own path in life, and do what feels right for us.*


 Yes ...very true.



> *Cosmos said*: I think with my SO and I, I feel a strange sense of loss because we met late in life... He never married and doesn't have children, and I'm a divorcee (of many years) with one adult child. He would have loved to have had children, and I would have loved to have had more children, but I'm now too old. *For us it's a case of concentrating on what we have together, rather than revisiting one another's pasts or thinking of what 'could have been*.


 and this makes a lot of sense..

Even though I have all the memories with my husband , and this will sound Over kill to others (I have my hang ups...after all it IS Mid life)...I found myself going back A LOT to where I feel we missed it....tears at times..







.. I found talking about it ...a NEED...a cleansing to me.. to find closure for myself, understanding how we were so foolish/ both of us...and yeah he is the one who brings that balance to me...rushing me to the here & now..that Life is GOOD....yet he entertains me, lets me ramble, goes back there with me...then holds me.


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