# Is is me? NEED HELP!!!!



## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Hi everyone,
I am in desperate need of some advise. I have been married for almost five years. In the past year or two my marriage has seemed to shift directions. My H and I argue a lot. And it is rarely about the important things. We seem to argue over the smallest meaningless things. My H blames me for it. He says all I want to do is argue. I feel that is wrong. When I am explaining something to him or explaining why I did something the way I did he considers that to be arguing with him. He tells me to shut up and listen to what he is saying because I am wrong. For example this is what happened last night. He called me from the store to ask what kind of cottage cheese to get for lasagna because the labels have changed. I told him the purple label or which ever one is low fat. When he got home this is what happened.


ME: Where is the cottage cheese?
HIM: In the cheese drawer.
ME: ( pulling it out of the fridge) Oh it does look the same.
HIM: WTF seriously you just wanted to prove me wrong.
ME: No I just wanted to see what the new one looked like and it looks the same.
HIM: You just wanna argue about everything I am so sick of your S. You should have kept it to yourself and not said anything.

Was I wrong for doing that even though I really just wanted to see the difference? Should I have kept it to my self. I don't know what to do. everything i do I feel like I am wrong or going to make him mad for doing something. In other arguments I feel like I am not heard like what I say doesn't matter. He will sometimes say I don't care what you thing. When the arguments get heated his temper really shows. He will sometimes grab and push me around, threaten to punch me in the face. It is terrifying to know that the person I love the most can do this to me. He does apologize for it sometimes. What should I do. He says all of it is my fault and I need to talk to someone about my issues. Please help I need some advise on how to fix this problem before it gets worse.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

He sounds like he has an anger problem in general. He's mad at you before you start the conversation.

If my spouse threatened me with violence I'd be out of there. He only gets one time to do it, I'm not going to wait around to see if he will or won't... and grabbing me? Oh hell no.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> When the arguments get heated his temper really shows. He will sometimes grab and push me around, threaten to punch me in the face.


Honey, that is abusive. You need some serious help right now. It sounds like he has some real anger management issues--and it does not matter WHY right now. No matter how much stress someone is under, they cannot treat you like that. Ever.

If it's anger management, he can get help for that--if he admits it is a problem. Learning to reduce stress helps a lot too.

When you suggest counseling, pay a LOT of attention to his response. If he puts everything on you, you have a bigger problem than anger management on your hands. 

You need to set a boundary for yourself and stick to it. If you feel it will be dangerous, do not warn him--just prepare to move out quickly and secretly with the understanding that *if* he is willing to address his anger problems in counseling--individual (for him, and maybe for you) as well as marriage counseling, you will consider reconciling. If he refuses to get help, continues to blame you--cut your losses NOW and file for divorce. I'm serious--that's how serious of a Red Flag his behavior is.

If he begs you to come back, promising to change--well, at least he's accepting responbility. BUT someone who is abusive is truly contrite, but they do not know how to control their anger. I would advise refusing to go back unless counseling is already happening. If he says you cannot afford it, tell him the cost of NOT doing it will be the end of the marriage.
Do you have kids? That complicates things but makes your decisions so much more important.

God bless.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> If my spouse threatened me with violence I'd be out of there. He only gets one time to do it, I'm not going to wait around to see if he will or won't... and grabbing me? Oh hell no.


Yeah, this too. I'd probably leave and then suggest the possibility of counseling. I hope you understand how serious this is, no matter how much he might try to white-wash it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Leave him


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Sister, Yes I do have kids. he has a son from a previous marriage and we have a 14 month old together. Thanks so much for your advise. I will be suggesting counselling for the both of us.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Pinkheels said:


> Was I wrong for doing that even though I really just wanted to see the difference? Should I have kept it to my self. I don't know what to do. everything i do I feel like I am wrong or going to make him mad for doing something. In other arguments I feel like I am not heard like what I say doesn't matter. He will sometimes say I don't care what you thing. When the arguments get heated his temper really shows. *He will sometimes grab and push me around, threaten to punch me in the face. *It is terrifying to know that the person I love the most can do this to me. He does apologize for it sometimes. What should I do. He says all of it is my fault and I need to talk to someone about my issues. Please help I need some advise on how to fix this problem before it gets worse.


First off, nothing was wrong with what YOU did with the cottage cheese. 

Secondly, you are in an abusive relationship - verbal, physical, emotional. 

Has your H always been like this? Are the two of you able to communicate in a respectable manner after the fact? Do you have close friends near you (in person) that you can discuss this with? You acknowledge it could get worse. 

There are a few ways you can stop this from happening. One is for you to get out now. Two is IF your H recognizes his abusive ways NOW, accepts responsible NOW, wants to and is willing to make changes and work hard at it, it *sometimes *can get better. But just YOU wanting it to change will do nothing for a successful marriage to this man. 

Do you have good communication with your H? If so, now is the time to speak up loudly. He sounds very dangerous and you have to be safe in your own marriage.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

P.S. My H has been abusive throughout the course of our marriage. For the past few weeks, his temper has been creeping back up to an intolerable level. He and I were able to sit down last night and discuss it openly and with what we both determined to be a good resolve. But my H is open to change, he wants to have a fulfilling family life, he wants his children to adore him and not fear him, he wants his wife (me) to adore him and not fear him or become resentful. 

If your H is open to changing for the better, it can happen - But just going through this again with my H over the last few weeks reminded the both of us that it can be a life long struggle. It might be easier as time goes on for him to control his temper, but some amount of struggle will always exist.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

No he hasn't always been like this. It has been just the past year or two. When we aren't arguing he is very sweet to me and treats me like I should be treated. That's what makes this so hard. My communication with him is not the greatest. Sometimes he will ask me what's wrong or for me to be honest with him. I will tell him what's bothering me but sometimes I tell him "nothing I am fine" is fear of making him mad. He tells me what makes him made is me not being honest with him. I have been working on that part. After an argument I do apologize for what I feel I have done wrong.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Is he having problems at work or somewhere else?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Pinkheels said:


> No he hasn't always been like this. It has been just the past year or two. When we aren't arguing he is very sweet to me and treats me like I should be treated. That's what makes this so hard. My communication with him is not the greatest. Sometimes he will ask me what's wrong or for me to be honest with him. I will tell him what's bothering me but sometimes I tell him "nothing I am fine" is fear of making him mad. He tells me what makes him made is me not being honest with him. I have been working on that part. After an argument I do apologize for what I feel I have done wrong.


As others have suggested and I will add - Counseling can help open the lines of communication. I completely understand the not wanting to make him mad situation. And that's exactly what I told my H last night.. He asked me why don't I just point it out to him if I feel his temper is out of hand.... Yeah, right. I bit my tongue and waited until we got the kids to bed and we ended up having a decent conversation.

Can you pinpoint if an event has triggered his anger/temper in the past year or two? Perhaps that's something that could be addressed in counseling. 

If the two of you cannot discuss this rationally, your next step should be counseling together if he's willing. If he's not willing, then your next step should be leaving him. I'm serious.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Keko, his job is very stressful and he hates it.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

He has just lost both his grandparents. His Grandmother last March and his grandfather two weeks ago. Could it be his way of dealing with loss? Before them he has never had to deal with the loss of a loved one.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Pinkheels said:


> He has just lost both his grandparents. His Grandmother last March and his grandfather two weeks ago. Could it be his way of dealing with loss? Before them he has never had to deal with the loss of a loved one.


And with a new baby around the time he lost his Grandmother? It could be his way of dealing with the loss. But it doesn't make it right. You've been supportive I presume, so he's biting the hand that feeds him, that's unfortunate. 

If he hasn't been abusive for the majority of the marriage, I would venture to say that yes, he's probably got unresolved issues due to his loss of loved ones or the stress of his job is also getting to him, or both. 

Either way, it is not a healthy situation for you and that needs to be brought to his attention in one way, shape or form. You should not feel frightened in your own home, by the very man who claims to love you. 

I didn't gather from your posts that he treats your children poorly, however, are they present when he treats you like this?


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

He treats the kids great. He would never do anything to harm them. He keeps his cool when the kids are up or around but if a huge argument starts after they are in bed then it is more likely to get "ugly." Although some may thing I am defending him when I say this but this is not a daily thing and the abusive behavior does not happen every time an argument happens.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Pinkheels said:


> He treats the kids great. He would never do anything to harm them. He keeps his cool when the kids are up or around but if a huge argument starts after they are in bed then it is more likely to get "ugly." *Although some may thing I am defending him when I say this but this is not a daily thing and the abusive behavior does not happen every time an argument happens*.


So sometimes is better than all the time?

I can't agree with that at all. :scratchhead:


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Pinkheels said:


> He treats the kids great. He would never do anything to harm them. He keeps his cool when the kids are up or around but if a huge argument starts after they are in bed then it is more likely to get "ugly." Although some may thing I am defending him when I say this but this is not a daily thing and the abusive behavior does not happen every time an argument happens.


Even once is too much though Pink. 

It is good that the abuse is sheltered from the kids, but it still does not make it right. In fact, for me anyways, it tells me that your H has 100% control over his temper and anger, therefore he *needs *to control it with you as well.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> So sometimes is better than all the time?
> 
> I can't agree with that at all. :scratchhead:


Abuse victims often defend their abuser by minimizing the damage. 

Sorry Pink, that is what I feel you are doing.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

I think he is feeling that you don't trust him. My wife does this all the time - I give her my opinion or do something and she double-checks on me - like I'm a child - it's disrespectful. He may be wrong, but does it really matter. Trust him - he's not a child. Do you ever disrespect him? (you have a right to with the way he's been acting, but you should avoid this slippery slope) He has to put up with all kinds of crap at work every day and must hold all the frustraton/anger inside - until he gets home. His outlet seems to be abusing you. I have similar issues with my wife (no violence or anywhere near the verbal assault you are getting - but these petty fights) - we were playing cards the other day and she mentioned that we were playing the game wrong - I disagreed, so I looked up the rules and she was right (not unusual) and I told her she was right. She says - 'I told you' (harmless right?) - I flipped out. Why? I think because I felt disrespected - I'm sensitive because this happens often. Try showing him the most trust/respect/appreciation you can muster and see if there is a change. About the physical/verbal abuse you are taking - that's got to stop - if it doesn't get out. His main job as a H is to love and take care of you - not hurt you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking his side - I'm not. You can only do what you can do - it's up to him to choose love over rage.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

Pinkheels said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am in desperate need of some advise. I have been married for almost five years. In the past year or two my marriage has seemed to shift directions. My H and I argue a lot. And it is rarely about the important things. We seem to argue over the smallest meaningless things. My H blames me for it. He says all I want to do is argue. I feel that is wrong. When I am explaining something to him or explaining why I did something the way I did he considers that to be arguing with him. He tells me to shut up and listen to what he is saying because I am wrong. For example this is what happened last night. He called me from the store to ask what kind of cottage cheese to get for lasagna because the labels have changed. I told him the purple label or which ever one is low fat. When he got home this is what happened.
> 
> 
> ...


He makes the marriage about him. He doesn't respect or care to hear your opinion. You are always wrong in his eyes. He controls you through violence. Guys like him make me sick. 

If I were you I would get out of this marriage before his violence escalates.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> I think he is feeling that you don't trust him. My wife does this all the time - I give her my opinion or do something and she double-checks on me - like I'm a child - it's disrespectful. He may be wrong, but does it really matter. Trust him - he's not a child. Do you ever disrespect him? (you have a right to with the way he's been acting, but you should avoid this slippery slope) He has to put up with all kinds of crap at work every day and must hold all the frustraton/anger inside - until he gets home. His outlet seems to be abusing you. I have similar issues with my wife (no violence or anywhere near the verbal assault you are getting - but these petty fights) - we were playing cards the other day and she mentioned that we were playing the game wrong - I disagreed, so I looked up the rules and she was right (not unusual) and I told her she was right. She says - 'I told you' (harmless right?) - I flipped out. Why? I think because I felt disrespected - I'm sensitive because this happens often. Try showing him the most trust/respect/appreciation you can muster and see if there is a change. About the physical/verbal abuse you are taking - that's got to stop - if it doesn't get out. His main job as a H is to love and take care of you - not hurt you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking his side - I'm not. You can only do what you can do - it's up to him to choose love over rage.


Did you read her scenario about the cottage cheese? How is that disrespectful to him? She wanted to see what the new label looked like :scratchhead:

IMO, she does not need to do anything but muster up the strength to tell her H that she will leave him if the abuse does not stop. It's hard to respect ANYONE who yells at you, belittles you, beats you and just downright disrespects you as an individual. She will be sending an absolutely horrible message of acceptance if she is bends over backwards to be nice to her H given the abuse she endures. 

As far as the stress of the job being the "cause" of his abuse towards his wife... He needs to learn how to leave that anger or frustration at the office where it belongs. I hate my job with a passion, I detest my boss on a minute by minute basis, but I don't dare take it home to my family and treat my H like crap, as a matter of fact on a particular stressful day I'm elated to get the he!! out of here and into my sanctuary I call home with my H and my babies.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

Pinkheels said:


> No he hasn't always been like this. It has been just the past year or two. When we aren't arguing he is very sweet to me and treats me like I should be treated. That's what makes this so hard. My communication with him is not the greatest. Sometimes he will ask me what's wrong or for me to be honest with him. I will tell him what's bothering me but sometimes I tell him "nothing I am fine" is fear of making him mad. He tells me what makes him made is me not being honest with him. I have been working on that part. After an argument I do apologize for what I feel I have done wrong.


text book abuser, honey all the signs are there. I'm afraid if you stay something horrible will happen to you. That's how guys like him keep girls around, its confusing to be treated nicely and than all of a sudden he's angry. And he makes his anger out to be your fault. It isn't, no one deserves to be abused. And with you having a kid you'll end up teaching your child to take the abuse. That it's normal and ok. IT'S NOT. You deserve better.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

PooDoo said:


> I think he is feeling that you don't trust him. My wife does this all the time - I give her my opinion or do something and she double-checks on me - like I'm a child - it's disrespectful. He may be wrong, but does it really matter. Trust him - he's not a child. Do you ever disrespect him? (you have a right to with the way he's been acting, but you should avoid this slippery slope) He has to put up with all kinds of crap at work every day and must hold all the frustraton/anger inside - until he gets home. His outlet seems to be abusing you. I have similar issues with my wife (no violence or anywhere near the verbal assault you are getting - but these petty fights) - we were playing cards the other day and she mentioned that we were playing the game wrong - I disagreed, so I looked up the rules and she was right (not unusual) and I told her she was right. She says - 'I told you' (harmless right?) - I flipped out. Why? I think because I felt disrespected - I'm sensitive because this happens often. Try showing him the most trust/respect/appreciation you can muster and see if there is a change. About the physical/verbal abuse you are taking - that's got to stop - if it doesn't get out. His main job as a H is to love and take care of you - not hurt you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking his side - I'm not. You can only do what you can do - it's up to him to choose love over rage.



PooDoo - can you please seek IC? This is not normal or healthy someone who rationalizes abuse. If you are abusing your wife emotionally or verbally it is because you lack respect for yourself not because your wife does or does not respect you. It has nothing to do with her. It's about how you respond to your environment. Abuse in any form is NEVER ok. If work stresses you out and you cant find another job that doesn't than you should try to have something that relaxes you in your life. Something that makes you happy. Look into starting a hobby and a IC.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Wow - sorry ladies. Just some constructive advice to SAVE a troubled marriage. He very well may a monster that will never change - but don't be so hasty. The cottage cheese isn't the problem - right?!?! It's a bit more than that. I'm just trying to give 1 possible explanation why he is acting irrationally. I act the same way some times about seemingly petty things. How she sees things and how he sees things is important to try to understand. I don't understand women - I understand men.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Love Song said:


> PooDoo - can you please seek IC? This is not normal or healthy someone who rationalizes abuse. If you are abusing your wife emotionally or verbally it is because you lack respect for yourself not because your wife does or does not respect you. It has nothing to do with her. It's about how you respond to your environment. Abuse in any form is NEVER ok. If work stresses you out and you cant find another job that doesn't than you should try to have something that relaxes you in your life. Something that makes you happy. Look into starting a hobby and a IC.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

PooDoo said:


> Wow - sorry ladies. Just some constructive advice to SAVE a troubled marriage. He very well may a monster that will never change - but don't be so hasty. The cottage cheese isn't the problem - right?!?! It's a bit more than that. I'm just trying to give 1 possible explanation why he is acting irrationally. I act the same way some times about seemingly petty things. How she sees things and how he sees things is important to try to understand. I don't understand women - *I understand men*.


Well explain why he put his hands on her? That sound rational to you as a man? Manhandling your wife sounds like a good fix to feeling disrepected?

Please.

He has complete control of himself around his kids. Even at his stressful job... he knows how far to take it when he's mad or disrespected there. Why not at home? 

He has no excuse. Male or female, you don't put your hands on each other. GTFO if you feel like you need to go there. Walk right out the front door and cool off.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> Wow - sorry ladies. Just some constructive advice to SAVE a troubled marriage. He very well may a monster that will never change - but don't be so hasty. The cottage cheese isn't the problem - right?!?! It's a bit more than that. I'm just trying to give 1 possible explanation why he is acting irrationally. I act the same way some times about seemingly petty things. How she sees things and how he sees things is important to try to understand. I don't understand women - I understand men.


I was offended by your advice to treat her H with more respect/trust/appreciation. That is not constructive in my opinion and it is the opposite of what she needs to do. You do not coddle a child who is misbehaving.... You firmly let them know their behavior will not be tolerated, which is what the OP needs to do with her H and she needs to do it quick.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If my husband EVER threatened bodily harm and grabbed me in anger he would be in jail so fast his head would spin.

You hit me you better knock me out, and run. I got something coming for you.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Cherry said:


> I was offended by your advice to treat her H with more respect/trust/appreciation. That is not constructive in my opinion and it is the opposite of what she needs to do. You do not coddle a child who is misbehaving.... You firmly let them know their behavior will not be tolerated, which is what the OP needs to do.


He's not a child (bad analogy). Don't remember saying coddle? My advice for her is to chose love over retaliation. Give it a try - but don't tollerate any more physical/verbal abuse. I thnk she wants to save her marriage with the man she loves, it's worth the fight in my opinion.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

It's not a bad analogy, he is acting like a childish bully. That is MY opinion. I live with someone who can be a bully. And it's very childish. There is nothing MANLY about an abuser. NOTHING.

She does want to save her marriage, and that is why I was asking her the questions I asked her. But she needs to stand up for herself first and foremost. I suggested counseling, not divorce, but I did say that if he does not agree to counseling she needs to leave him.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> He's not a child (bad analogy). Don't remember saying coddle? My advice for her is to chose love over retaliation. Give it a try - but don't tollerate any more physical/verbal abuse. I thnk she wants to save her marriage with the man she loves, it's worth the fight in my opinion.


But he is acting like a child--acting out--and has the strength of a grown man.

When someone threatens violence and has gone so far as to get physical already, safety has to be the first consideration. 

It is too easy for some people to think that his behavior does not quite merit her seeking safety. But all of the evidence about abusers is that it escalates--often quickly, not in some slow curve upward. He pushes her now and threatens to punch her. What is the "tipping point," after he actually hits her and breaks something? Pushing can cause a person to fall and knock their head with serious consequences.

From her first post, it does sound like something has changed to trigger this behavior, but the behavior itself is unquestionable. An anger management problem (appearing when someone is under great stress) can be resolved IF someone is willing to seek treatment. But staying with someone until you know they are profitting from treatment is dangerous.

The other red flag is that he always turns things back on her--that is more typical of an abuser who has more than anger management problems. 

No matter the root cause, she needs to act and act fast. If he is unwilling to seek help, professionals are likely to advise her to give a LOT of thought before continuing in a marriage like this. The evidence on abusers and their patterns is long standing. I think his response to her asking him to get help will be very revealing.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Cherry said:


> It's not a bad analogy, he is acting like a childish bully. That is MY opinion. I live with someone who can be a bully. And it's very childish. There is nothing MANLY about an abuser. NOTHING.
> 
> She does want to save her marriage, and that is why I was asking her the questions I asked her. But she needs to stand up for herself first and foremost. I suggested counseling, not divorce, but I did say that if he does not agree to counseling she needs to leave him.


Never implied that it was manly to be a bully. I never excused his behavior - he's definately got to change. How do you deal with your bully?


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Ok...here's the reality of the situation. As a lawyer it sounds very much like your husband has committed assault and battery. These are crimes..period. I understand people advocate counseling for him but you need to get yourself and family to a safe place. You are not at fault and in my opinion you should report him to the police immediately. I understand the ramifications behind this could be huge but this "problem" he has and the crimes he has committed and may commit again could potentially threaten your life. 

With all that said, these are my opinions and I am not offering legal advice and you should retain your own counsel. But, please, for your own safety, exercise extreme caution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> About the physical/verbal abuse you are taking - that's got to stop - if it doesn't get out. His main job as a H is to love and take care of you - not hurt you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking his side - I'm not. You can only do what you can do - it's up to him to choose love over rage.


I see that you "get this," PooDoo, but from the perspective of the one being attacked, "that's got to stop" needs some real meat in it. It is very dangerous for a woman to indicate she will leave IF it happens again--abusers become very dangerous once their control over their victim is threatened. I don't know if he's the type who will refuse help or actually pursue therapy to get her back if she leaves. And more importantly, she does not know how he will react to an ultimatum either--because that is what it has to be. An ultimatum is appropriate when there is no compromise--and there can be no compromise on "it has to stop." An abuser believes he WILL stop, and he will say so and she wants to believe it--that's part of the cycle of abuse. Most abusers cannot stop without significant professional help (and many won't even get help b/c "it's all her fault). 

A man who has put his hands on a woman in violence falls into a category of "those who will." Many, many men would *never* do this. There is just a sharp line that needs to be recognized. He's on the wrong side of it and for her safety, she needs to be extremely cautious in how she handles it. 

It kind of reminds me of the blood-born pathogens (BBP) issue that requires training at work each year. If exposed to BBP, one has to assume that they have been exposed to HIV or other potential lethal illnesses. It's only after several months that you can be *sure* you were not. The first act of violence from a partner is the "exposure," and the only thing to do is assume it will get worse and respond accordingly. For sure, it is not at all likely to get better.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

PooDoo said:


> He's not a child (bad analogy). Don't remember saying coddle? My advice for her is to chose love over retaliation. Give it a try - but don't tollerate any more physical/verbal abuse. I thnk she wants to save her marriage with the man she loves, it's worth the fight in my opinion.


I don't think you get it. When you have an issue with something going on in your life you don't take it out on the people around you. ABUSE IS NEVER OK!!! EVER. To suggest she takes your approach is to suggest she is part of the problem. 

An abuser blames the abuse on the abusee. The abusee doesn't get out because they assume that the abuse is there fault. If only I do this, If only I change this than he will not abuse me anymore and things will be wonderful. When in actuality the abuse comes from the abusers own internal turmoil. 

What you said was not ok and it was worse for you to say it to her because your a man.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> Never implied that it was manly to be a bully. I never excused his behavior - he's definately got to change. How do you deal with your bully?


It's been a long hard struggle (a really long story) and it is still a work in progress. But it did start with MC. Bu
And my H and I communicate very well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Love Song said:


> I don't think you get it. When you have an issue with something going on in your life you don't take it out on the people around you. ABUSE IS NEVER OK!!! EVER. To suggest she takes your approach is to suggest she is part of the problem.
> 
> An abuser blames the abuse on the abusee. The abusee doesn't get out because they assume that the abuse is there fault. If only I do this, If only I change this than he will not abuse me anymore and things will be wonderful. When in actuality the abuse comes from the abusers own internal turmoil.
> 
> What you said was not ok and it was worse for you to say it to her because your a man.



Wow - where to start. I said abuse is ok now. What next I'm advocating murder. Really? He grabbed and pushed her - very bad. But to go nuclear in my opinion will end the marriage - and I think PinkHeel wants save her marriage. My comments were about the petty fights not about the abuse - which there is no excuse. If he's a psycho there is no hope - I don't think he's a psycho. Blast away - I'll be here.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Cherry said:


> It's been a long hard struggle (a really long story) and it is still a work in progress. But it did start with MC. Bu
> And my H and I communicate very well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did he ever get physical with you?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> But to go nuclear in my opinion will end the marriage - and I think PinkHeel wants save her marriage..


We don't KNOW if he's a psycho--and neither does she. That's why she has been encouraged to act with extreme caution. "Going nuclear" in this case simply means recognizing the seriousness of what has happened and not underplaying it by getting safe. Maybe you don't know as much about patterns of abuse as others. But without knowing how he will react, it is really dangerous for her to confront him directly about the violence that he has already demonstrated. 

Every single professional will tell a woman that she's playing with fire by continuing to put herself under the control of someone who has demonstrated violent behavior. The explosions and escalation of violence (the real "nuclear" in this case) are completely unpredictable. 

If you had a sister or daughter in this situation, wouldn't you want her to consider her safety first, and the impact on the marriage next? Getting safe does not mean giving up on the marriage, by any means. Only his reaction to the insistence on counseling and anger management will be indicative of the possibilities. If he completes therapy, he *may* be demonstrating that he wants to make things right. If he rug sweeps it--or flat out blames her--then she already has an answer, based on his choice, about how important the marriage is to him. The hardest part will be knowing if he is sincere about his therapy. He might go through the motions to win her back--without really intending to change. She will be advised by the professionals about what to look for (like, if he starts suggesting that her friends/family are the problem--in an attempt to isolate her from the people she can turn to if in trouble). 

Pink, whatever you do, please be careful.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> Never implied that it was manly to be a bully. I never excused his behavior - he's definately got to change. How do you deal with your bully?


PooDoo, how would you suggest she go about getting him to change this behavior?


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

PooDoo said:


> Wow - where to start. I said abuse is ok now. What next I'm advocating murder. Really? He grabbed and pushed her - very bad. But to go nuclear in my opinion will end the marriage - and I think PinkHeel wants save her marriage. My comments were about the petty fights not about the abuse - which there is no excuse. If he's a psycho there is no hope - I don't think he's a psycho. Blast away - I'll be here.


I don't think you were advocating murder or saying it was ok for her to be physically abused. But I do think that what you were telling her was sending the wrong message. I've been trying to explain to you that his anger problems isn't something she can fix, it's his problems. She can support him in his healing himself but she is not the cause. And suggesting that if she try different things she'll get different results suggests that she might be part of the problem.

To me the most important thing for her is her safety. I think she needs to focus on that, getting to a safe place then worry about her marriage. If he goes to IC and tries to get professional help for his issues than maybe the marriage will work out and they'll live happy lives. But it takes him changing and wanting to change. I don't know how likely he is to do that considering he's already blaming his issues on her.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> PooDoo, how would you suggest she go about getting him to change this behavior?


How did you get your bully to change?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PooDoo said:


> I think he is feeling that you don't trust him. My wife does this all the time - I give her my opinion or do something and she double-checks on me - like I'm a child - it's disrespectful. He may be wrong, but does it really matter. Trust him - he's not a child. Do you ever disrespect him? (you have a right to with the way he's been acting, but you should avoid this slippery slope) He has to put up with all kinds of crap at work every day and must hold all the frustraton/anger inside - until he gets home. His outlet seems to be abusing you. I have similar issues with my wife (no violence or anywhere near the verbal assault you are getting - but these petty fights) - we were playing cards the other day and she mentioned that we were playing the game wrong - I disagreed, so I looked up the rules and she was right (not unusual) and I told her she was right. She says - 'I told you' (harmless right?) - I flipped out. Why? I think because I felt disrespected - I'm sensitive because this happens often. Try showing him the most trust/respect/appreciation you can muster and see if there is a change. About the physical/verbal abuse you are taking - that's got to stop - if it doesn't get out. His main job as a H is to love and take care of you - not hurt you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking his side - I'm not. You can only do what you can do - it's up to him to choose love over rage.


There is absolutely nothing disrespectful in what your wife said/did about the card game. She did not disrespect you. 

If you feel under pressure from work, find a way to get rid of the pressure and anger other than take it out on your wife. Exercising is a good way to do this. Be proactive, do it BEFORE you get to the point of blowing up over nothing.


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## PooDoo (Aug 12, 2011)

Love Song said:


> I don't think you were advocating murder or saying it was ok for her to be physically abused. But I do think that what you were telling her was sending the wrong message. I've been trying to explain to you that his anger problems isn't something she can fix, it's his problems. She can support him in his healing himself but she is not the cause. And suggesting that if she try different things she'll get different results suggests that she might be part of the problem.
> 
> To me the most important thing for her is her safety. I think she needs to focus on that, getting to a safe place then worry about her marriage. If he goes to IC and tries to get professional help for his issues than maybe the marriage will work out and they'll live happy lives. But it takes him changing and wanting to change. I don't know how likely he is to do that considering he's already blaming his issues on her.


Well put. If she doesn't feel safe, she should leave.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't put cottage cheese in my lasagna!
Now that I have your attention...
A threat to do harm, if it can really be carried out in the same moment, is the same as if it was done. You experience it the same because the suggestion that it will be done, lives in your affective memory. And all the better for him as a control measure because he can use it again, and again, and again without being caught. He can always claim he has been the better man for controlling his temper.
I now have someone in my life who would never do that. It feels sweet, the way a relationship should be. Violence does not need to have a physical form in order to do its damage. You are questioning whether you are right because he is saying one thing and doing another. But in your mind he is saying one thing AND HE IS ALSO DOING IT. So you are questioning reality. He is saying he didn't do it, there is no physical evidence. But in your head you have been punched. That IS REALITY. You were as good as punched. In the physical world he will say it's not so. In the emotional world and spiritual world he has inflicted damage all those times he made those threats. So what about your body, that is not the measure of damage in a relationship. Think about your spirit. Once your spirit is damaged, your body will follow. You will become ill or mentally ill from the spiritual damage. You should leave before this happens, and seek only that path in which warm hands and warm hearts and genuine smiles are offered. This path is easy to see. You have to stop pretending that there is no damage when there is. In some worlds, nobody uses cottage cheese to make lasagna. It's ricotta. And happy families who would never make threats or start arguments over such things sit around and share that meal. I would not even be able to eat food prepared over which there has been an argument, now, but I used to, and it almost killed me.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

PooDoo said:


> Did he ever get physical with you?


Yes, a few times in about 4 years. The last time was in July 2011. It was one of the worst. I am hopeful that we will make it a year without further incident... If something happens again, I will be done with my marriage. And I was a drinker during that time as was he. We have both quit drinking entirely. We will see what happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

I am going to repeat myself and quote part of the original message:

"When the arguments get heated his temper really shows. He will sometimes grab and push me around, threaten to punch me in the face"

Please understand that he has committed assault and battery. This is a crime (2 crimes, actually..but it depends on the state).

A threat to do harm is an assault. Grabbing and pushing is battery. Again, these are crimes but they are different, technically (depending on the state, etc). 

This is a classic case of abuse. It is a cycle. Battery/Assault and then being nice, batter/assault and then being nice. How many times does this domestic cycle of abuse have to repeat. It is so saddening to read posters who defend these crimes. It's even worse to see it real life.

Let me repeat this. This poster's husband has committed a CRIME. Why is it over and over again these crimes go unpunished? It has to stop. It is not a joke and cannot be taken lightly. If I remember the original post correctly, years ago he wasn't like this but now he is. The trend is getting worse. Please don't become a statistic. Stand up for who you are, get the authorities involved and enjoy life. You are entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and don't let anyone take that away from you.

Ok..I am done ranting..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The fact that he does not abuse you all the time does not suggest that he's normally a good guy. It means that he knows how to manipulate you with the abuse cycle... search on google for "abuse cycle" and read up.

Most abusers are "good guys" most of the time. But when they feel that they are losing control they step up the abuse, threats of violence and actual violence to get their victim back under their control.

If the abuser was abusive 100% of the time, the victim would usually run away from them very quickly. The intermittent manipulation is the most effective form of manipulation. This is why people become addicted to gambling. They never know when they will lose and when they will get a payout. Studies have shown that unpredictable payout hooks a person (and animals) much stronger than consistent payout.

The trick as an abuser is to use just enough violence/abuse to let the victim know that if they do not follow the ‘rules’ they can be hurt… and then use just enough good behavior to keep the victim from leaving. 

You are caught in your husband’s abuse cycle. He’s controlling you. If you ever show true independence he will most likely hurt you or even kill you.

Statistically, women are killed on the 3rd time they attempt to leave an abusive husband.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Jeff and Ele have made it much more clear than I could. 

The risk of the situation is huge. The remedy is to get safe and then deal with possibilities. 

Let us know, Pink, that you are ok.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The fact that he does not abuse you all the time does not suggest that he's normally a good guy. It means that he knows how to manipulate you with the abuse cycle... search on google for "abuse cycle" and read up.
> 
> Most abusers are "good guys" most of the time. But when they feel that they are losing control they step up the abuse, threats of violence and actual violence to get their victim back under their control.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree:

You put that better than I could have EleGirl. But guilt is also part of the manipulation. If he shows her how great it can be between them than when it does get ugly blame it on her, than it really leaves her feeling that that is true. She'll think well he wasn't like that yesterday or a minute ago, it's my fault he's like that now. If only I had put the soap in the right place he wouldn't have busted my lip type of thing. In actuality there isn't a reasonable excuse for any type of abuse, especially in a relationship.


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## ferndog (Dec 2, 2011)

yes he is dealing with issues so deep he may not know himself. can you leave for two weeks or so.so he and yourself can reflect. usually when one is hurting they tend to hurt the one's they love the most its no excuse and you should not put up with it. give him a choice after you both reflect. remind him of your love and cantsee how he hurts you. and also that is what both of you want for the future? give him an altimatum counseling to dig out the root of the issue or your leaving. you sound like a loving person and its obvious he may also be a great guy or else you wouldn't love him. is the marriage worth it? is he worth it? if he is then those changes must occur because they are not leaving by themselve and with each month. it will be harder to get to that point and then both of you will be a shell of what u used to be.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Pink - its natural to not wanna listen to us . I've been there. It's a hard pill to swallow win you begin to realize the man you love is really being abusive, or you might think he's different than other abusers. I am personally holding onto the hope that my H is different. But I've witnessed my H make some huge changes over the years, not totally related to abuse, more personal growth. 

I also find strength in coming to TAM.

Edited to add it is very important to set your own personal boundaries. What makes YOU hurt? Bring it to his attention and let him know that you can't continue living like that. You came here for help because he has hurt you more than once. I wish you the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bellaeu (Mar 30, 2012)

This sounds bad. Really bad. Ok, he is not abusive towards the kids, but children do have ears you know? They will hear your arguments and that may take an emotional toll on them.
You really need to be careful. Maybe he is not as abusive now, but things may change in time. He might only threaten with words now....but tomorrow he might actually do it. As a child of divorced parents, I strongly believe it is healthier to grow up with separated parents rather than in an abusive family. Even if the abuse is only towards you. 
Have you thought about what they have to learn from all that fighting and constant blame-it-on-the-wife attitude?? Kid's brains are like a sponge, and they don't always take in the best of things. Children usually take things as they are, they might not stop and wonder..."maybe daddy is wrong". He is setting a bad example by being abusive, and you are setting a bad example by taking it.

My story is a bit different. My mom worked a lot for us, while my dad was an alcoholic, avoiding work all his life. Didn't do much but come home drunk and sleep, then do it again the next day. He was never physically abusive towards my mom...but still...I grew up having great trust issues towards men. Anyway...time passed...and seeing my mom just break out in tears at times, when times were tough was a bad influence on me. At the age of 11 i begged my mom to get a divorce. I stress the word BEGGED. It took her another 3 years to do something. Children understand more than you think, and i honestly think we'd been better off with them separated a long time before I was old enough to understand what's happening.

I do respect you for having the strength to stay in this marriage. It takes a strong mind to endure all that. But i really don;t see what kind of satisfaction you get out of it. I don';t understand how a marriage like this could work. There is the counseling part, which i urge you to pass it by him. But if he gets like that from a simple cottage cheese, i'm really curious what he';ll have to say about counseling. I'm not saying drop everything and leave him. Give it a try with professional help.

But if that doesn't work and he keeps doing this...please take a good look at your life and your child's life, and do something about it! You and your kids deserve better than this!


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank you all for spending the time to read and respond to my post. I will let you know how it goes. My plan as of right now is to suggest marriage counseling. PooDoo you are right I do want to save my marriage. Jeff your posts were very helpful as well coming from someone who knows a lot about situations like these. All of you really have me sitting back and really thinking about what needs to happen and how I plan on going about fixing this problem.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

@ Bell, he didn't get abusive last night over the cottage cheese. That was just an example of how I feel like everything is turned into being my fault. The last time he did it was a few weeks ago and we were both drunk at that point. and we both got physical with each other although mine was out of self defense.

My childhood was a lot like your Bell with my Dad and stepmom but the quit drinking and are still married to this day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Love Song said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> You put that better than I could have EleGirl. But guilt is also part of the manipulation. If he shows her how great it can be between them than when it does get ugly blame it on her, than it really leaves her feeling that that is true. She'll think well he wasn't like that yesterday or a minute ago, it's my fault he's like that now. If only I had put the soap in the right place he wouldn't have busted my lip type of thing. In actuality there isn't a reasonable excuse for any type of abuse, especially in a relationship.


I agree with you and I see the guilt as part of the emotional abuse. This is why when the one guy here suggested that if she would just treat him nicely, with love and respect it might get him to stop the abuse. This is exactly what an abuser wants... the abuser wants her trying everything she can... to be filled with guilt and believing if she is could just figure out the right way to behave he would not HAVE to react the way he does. And he wants her to feel guilt over the fact that she cannot figure out the right way to act... nor the right thing to do. Any and everything has the potential of setting him off.

I lived this for years... can recognize it a mile away.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pinkheels said:


> Thank you all for spending the time to read and respond to my post. I will let you know how it goes. My plan as of right now is to suggest marriage counseling. PooDoo you are right I do want to save my marriage. Jeff your posts were very helpful as well coming from someone who knows a lot about situations like these. All of you really have me sitting back and really thinking about what needs to happen and how I plan on going about fixing this problem.


Please get into individual conseling for your self. There should be a facility near you that specializes in abuse and domestic violence. Many of them have counseling for both the abused spouse and the abuser.

Right now I don't think that you or he would benefit from normal MC. Instead you both first need help with the abuse and violence. 

Keep in mind that if a child is ever hurt in one of your scuffles, you could lose all of your children. It's not unusual for a child to rush in to help the victim and get hurt doing this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pinkheels said:


> @ Bell, he didn't get abusive last night over the cottage cheese. That was just an example of how I feel like everything is turned into being my fault. The last time he did it was a few weeks ago and we were both drunk at that point. and we both got physical with each other although mine was out of self defense.
> 
> My childhood was a lot like your Bell with my Dad and stepmom but the quit drinking and are still married to this day.


If the bit about the cottage cheese was a one-off event that happened maybe once a year, I'd agree that it's not abuse.

But this is a normal on going pattern in your husband's behavior towards you. It's a form of emotional abuse.. contantly emotionally battering you.

Also.. the only way you will probably get him to take this seriously is if you call 911 and press charges against him the next time he starts with the assault and battery. Once this happens he will most likely be court ordered to get anger management.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Pink heels-- I would STRONGLY suggest that you hold off on marriage counseling for now. In abusive relationships like yours, couples counseling generally only serves to provide more fodder for abuse. Abuse can only happen in secrecy, when you start telling those secrets and making yourself vulnerable, he has to protect that secret and will use everything you said in counseling to accomplish that. 

You're much better off in individual counseling apart from each other until you both have the tools to deal with his behaviors. Only then can you really begin to SAFELY rebuild your marriage. 

In the meantime, educate yourself on the cycle of abuse so that you can better recognize what's going on. You can begin to identify the periods of calm, the build up when you're walking on eggshells to keep from 'upsetting" him, the blow up itself and finally the apologies, promises it wont happen again, that it wouldn't have happened if only you had done this or hadn't done that.... 

Look in to the patterns of abuse, the way that abusers constantly change the "rules" to keep you off balance. Once you know what to look for, you can better assess your relationship. There's a book often recommended here: The Dance of Anger: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. You might check that out too. 

Good luck and stay safe--


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Pink, I agree with above poster. Seek individual counseling for yourself and line up a social worker for yourself and your family unit. You should get advice on whether marriage counseling will be a good idea before doing it. He can get information about what you want, in a marriage counseling session and then use that as a tool for leverage in further control maneuevers. You know how I got out of abusive relationship? I convinced myself that I loved my husband enough to keep him from continuing to do this to his marriage and then feeling badly about himself, whether he did feel badly or not I have no clue, but I do know that he is no longer creating negative space around him with me helping him do that by providing that particular environment for him. Yep, I stopped him from abusing in a relationship by stepping out of the relationship. I defined the relationship as toxic rather than him as an abuser, then I decided I had control over stopping the toxic relationship by becoming a person who could choose not to be in that relationship. This is different than making your husband good or bad or lapsing or needing to be forgiven or given a second choice, or even saying that alcohol is to blame. My landlord is a police officer and after I had really ended the relationship he explained to me what had happened with me giving my H another chance as a classic example of abuse cycle as my H had raped and assaulted me with threat and also swerving car and rock climbing not belaying according to how the rules for belay are, also doing dangerous things in front of me when I couldn't stop him, keeping his guns in my dress closet, showing up with scratches on his back, perfume on him, having other women in his car and leaving the evidence in there...then smokescreening me...and calling me crazy, not getting me medical care, etc. Then accusing me of cheating on him because i would be a fool for loving him. I finally had to agree, so I left him because only a fool would love him, and then I cheated on him with my best friend (guy) a week before my divorce case hearing. LOL. You can't cheat on someone, really, who was never in a real marriage. It's just terminology. But still, I had this wonderful man friend who stood by while I gave my marriage a second chance. And even after rape and assault of various kinds, I still fell for the I've changed, etc. stuff. My landlord was very happy when I finally left and even happier when my guy came over to pick me up for a date. Don't waste your energy loving someone who can't feel it. It's not what he wants. What he wants is power, and ironically he hates you all the more for giving it to him, in fact, most power hunger abusers despise the fools that choose to continue loving them, and this gives them all the more reason to be abusive..they tell themselves that someone that foolish and idiotic doesn't care about themselves so why should they, that the abused must somehow want to be abused, and so, they feel entirely okay about being abusive and giving what it is that seems to be solicited. The cycle of abuse needs to be fed some kind of energy. If you stay in the game, it never ends.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Wow ok so to fill you all in and let you know how it is going so far this weekend went REALLY WELL. BIG RELIEF! No big arguments at all. We had a long talk about how things were going. Each of us said what we needed and wanted to say without being put down or arguing about it. Actual civil conversations about what needs to change in the relationship and what we both want out of the other. To long to type here but we both spoke our piece like a normal loving couple. It was very genuine. 
Long story short he said I feel like you don't respect me when I am speaking I feel you aren't really listening. He explained the reasoning behind this statement as he thinks I am to busy thinking about what I am going to say next or what I am going to respond with and that makes him angry. Which is true. I do catch myself a good bit half listening because I am trying to think of what to say. And I told him that when we get into big arguments I feel disrespected also and that it is terrifying. I was genuinely very sorry and ever since it has been great. This is the longest we have gone without arguing at all for a long time.


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Sorry I meant to say HE was sorry for it.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Does he recognize what he does is abuse and can land him jail?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pinkheels (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes he does. He even said he was surprised I haven't. He also said that anyone else would have.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

As long as he will work on that behavior too. Its good you two were able to communicate calmly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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