# Family dynamics of a broken family



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey all, I've posted before about my boyfriend's youngest daughter (11). Things kind of settled down after our last bit of drama with her, and she was staying with her Dad most of the time that she should have been with him (1 week on, 1 week off, Sunday to Sunday). It took her until about Tuesday usually to feel ready to come stay with us, but when she was here, things seemed fine for most part. She was usually in a bad mood, but her Dad dealt with that, and I stayed out of it. Bad moods with her are nothing out of the ordinary; she usually just goes to her room shuts the door and stays there. Usually lasts a couple hours, then she comes back out and is OK to interact. She will never say what she's mad about, will never say 'sorry' for her behaviour, just pretends like nothing happened.

Just before Halloween, she called her Dad sobbing because her Nana ruined her Halloween costume. Nana has been sewing since she was probably a teenager, and so both BF and I find it hard to believe that Nana sewed the sleeves shut, which is what she apparently did. So, Friday before Halloween, daughter came over, and I had cooked supper, which was "too spicy" because it had cream of mushroom soup in it. She didn't eat, and BF told her that if she didn't eat half of the little bit that was on her plate, that we weren't going shopping for a new costume. Guess what she didn't do? Eat! Guess what we ended up still doing? Taking her shopping! Not my call, I just follow suit. At any rate, she was in a terrible mood. We helped her try to find a new costume in about 3 different stores. At one point, I picked one up, asked her about it, got looked at like I had horns, and didn't even get an answer. Her Dad got mad, and then when we got home, she went up to her room and called her mom to come pick her up. She plays one against the other. I heard the mother say that she would just go for full custody. She won't get it; she's an unfit parent who sent her 11 year old to school ONCE that week. Her oldest is a 3-times school dropout and is 17. 

That Friday was the last time youngest was over here; BF finally talked to her about why, and of course it's because of me. I'm the woman who's hand he now holds instead of his daughter's; I'm the woman who took her spot in her Dad's bed. I put myself in her spot, and sure I'd be mad too, but when does that anger end? She apparently really likes her mom's BF now. She hated him before, and he was the reason she spent so much time at her Dad's house.

It's a hard situation, I feel badly for coming between her and her Dad, but her Dad can't marry her or ask her to live with him for the rest of his life, and she wouldn't stay living with him anyways; she'll grow up and want her very own life. So, is that when her Dad is allowed to find happiness? How come her mother can be with someone, and her Dad can't? It's just all very frustrating. 

Our game plan going forward it to give her time to come around. My personal game plan is to make myself as scarce as possible when she's here.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It all sounds VERY unhealthy. 

I recall she's almost 12 years old, is that correct?

At near 12 years old to be jealous that a long term partner is holding hands with and sleeping in bed with your father and the jealousy is because you want to be doing that... there's a problem there. A big one. 

Also....I say this as a mom who raised 2 kids to college age, so far... if a 12 year old isn't interested in eating dinner, the response should be, fine, this is what is served, the kitchen is now closed, eat - or not, if not you can just be be hungry til morning. Threatening an almost 12 year old to eat dinner is treating her like a small child. 12 year old, whatever, don't want dinner, oh well, guess you're gonna be hungry 🤣

Kinda like not wearing a winter coat to school when it's zero out. Guess you're gonna be cold, bub!!! 

They live and learn.

My kids now wear coats in the cold and eat dinner even if they think it sucks. All on their own.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, all of this was predictable, unfortunately. Doesn’t sound as if anything much has changed from the first time you posted about her quite some time ago. You need to be prepared for even more of her bad behavior if you marry him. Daddy’s Little Girl has been jealous of you from the beginning and the teenage years are almost here. It likely won’t get better in the coming years and I don’t think you can hide out until she’s an adult — not that it always gets better then. Stepchildren are a major cause of second divorces. I passed on my opportunity to be a stepmother in part because I knew I didn’t have it in me to deal with his over-indulged adult children. Apparently your bf’s going to continue to appease her. That’s their pattern. She knows who’s in charge when she’s there and it’s not him.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Divorce is hell on kids. If her mom and dad don’t get along, back each up and support each other in co-parenting it’s even worse, and will have a life long effect on her future relationships. I don’t know if there’s an answer. He definitely needs to be the adult and not tolerate her disrespect, I believe that’s true of all adult/child relationships, but from everything I’ve heard from divorced parents in real life, they are afraid to do that, for exactly the reason this girl is doing. Playing them against each other. I can’t even be totally pissed at the girl for being a brat; her life was shattered. I think you behave beautifully and really respect how you just step back and try to stay out of it. You’re in a really tricky spot. Who knows, she may well come to love you very much some day, or she may stay stunted as an adult. Right now she’s acting like a scared and angry little girl, because that’s what she is.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

What does your bf say to you when it’s just the two of you alone, about the situation?

I think you’re doing the best you can and handling this situation with grace, fwiw.🙏


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Oh @Livvie, it’s so unhealthy, and yes, she’ll be 12 just before Christmas, and I agree that it’s a pretty big problem that will probably get worse before it gets any better. I think it started when her parents separated, and her Dad tried to ease the burden of that. He’s admitted that he parents out of guilt, which I’ve told him will just do more harm than good. He says he knows, but he continues on. I agree with you about the supper thing, and as long as I’ve known her, her Dad at least cooks food for her separately, and she gets to choose what she eats. I’ve really never seen anything like this type of parenting! He tries hard to be a good Dad, but I believe that it’s going to come back to bite him in the butt in the future. Probably not the near future, as she’s 11 going on about 5 or 6.

@Openminded, we probably won’t be getting married to be honest, both of us have been there, done that and aren’t eager to do it again. But if we do stick together, I feel that all you say will come true unless her Dad changes his ways, which isn’t likely. 

@Teacherwifemom, her parents do NOT get along at all, and the coparenting is way more dramatic than it needs to be. If daughter doesn’t change her ways as she grows, I really can’t see her having a relationship of her own that will work out. He puts up with the disrespect, and will sometimes try to talk to her, but she’s pretty mum when confronted with anything really. She tried therapy, and has outright told her Dad that she’s not going to talk to the therapist. So, that’s a waste of time and money, and yes she’s a very angry little girl indeed.

@*Deidre*, he says that he knows he needs to be tougher on her, that she’s his baby girl, that he thinks how she acts and talks is normal for a child of her age (she pronouces her L’s and R’s like W’s all the time around her Dad, so I have a dog named Lily, but to daughter she’s “Wiwy”). I try hard to handle things with grace and to not say anything, but boy is it hard sometimes. About a week ago, she called her “Dada” (what she calls her Dad) at just after 11pm on a weeknight. Her mom wasn’t home to tuck her into bed and she was beside herself upset because she needed her mommy to tuck her in and had pretty much turned into a very whiny toddler because mommy was out with her boyfriend and wasn’t home to tuck her in. It was an amazing conversation, and I had to keep my jaw in check to make sure it didn’t drop.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

That’s some messed up stuff going on. And I doubt any of it will change (not for the better anyway) so my advice is for you to distance yourself as much as possible. Not marrying him or combining finances or anything else will give you the freedom to leave with minimum fuss should you ever feel you need to. I had never intended to marry again but the guy I was engaged to obviously did want to and I initially agreed. One problem for me, among several, was his overly dependent and very entitled adult children. It was clear to me, although not to him, that they would never accept anyone in his life. She isn’t likely to accept you either so if you want to stay with him you need to let him parent as he wishes, since he’s going to do that anyway, and in general remove yourself as much as possible from the situation when she’s there. Let them do things together without you unless she specifically asks you to come with them. She is indeed a very angry child and without therapy I think she’ll grow up to be a very angry adult who continues having him dance to her tune as long as he lives. You’ll have to figure out where that leaves you.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I was a stepmom to two boys from the age of 5 & 7. What I can tell you is this is not going to change. It does not matter how you and your boyfriend feel about one another, it does not matter what your plans for the future are, it does not matter that the girl will grow up and have her own life. Yes, she is playing the two parents against one another and she will continue that game, that is common for children of divorce. She does not have to accept you and just because it appears that she has accepted mom's boyfriend, it does mean that she has. Children want their parents back together and generally blame, or target their anger, at the step parent/ girlfriend /boyfriend. This will not change. 

I am going to give you two scenarios.....my ex remarried and they had children. I told my children that they had two moms, I supported their stepmom and would not speak poorly of her even when my daughters did. I openly thanked her for being a mom to my children on social media. The relationship between the two of us was good. My ex and his second wife divorced eventually however, my daughters still have a relationship with her.

On the flip side, I also remarried and wanted the same relationship with my second husband's ex but she was angry with my husband as he had custody of the boys which meant I became the main parent to these children. She wanted custody and she did everything she could to to hurt the boys' relationship between me and them, and their dad and them. She filled the boys' heads with lies when she would get visitation. It was awful. The boys were very angry and most of that anger was directed right at me. It eventually wore my relationship with their father very thin. 

My situation does not have to be yours but I was in step family support groups for years and I can tell you the stories are not too different from one another. As I had mentioned before in another post that I had not wanted to meet the children of the man I had been dating and got backlash for that, this is why. I have been there, I have walked in those shoes.

I know you love this man and all but you will live with rejection, you will be unsupported, you will be expected to treat this child like she is a princess and the parents will do nothing but make excuses for her actions. There are plenty of fish in the sea without children. My advise to you is too serious think this through.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Livvie said:


> if a 12 year old isn't interested in eating dinner, the response should be, fine, this is what is served, the kitchen is now closed, eat - or not, if not you can just be be hungry til morning. Threatening an almost 12 year old to eat dinner is treating her like a small child. 12 year old, whatever, don't want dinner, oh well, guess you're gonna be hungry 🤣
> 
> Kinda like not wearing a winter coat to school when it's zero out. Guess you're gonna be cold, bub!!!


100% agree, natural consequences are the best teacher.



Ursula said:


> About a week ago, she called her “Dada” (what she calls her Dad) at just after 11pm on a weeknight. Her mom wasn’t home to tuck her into bed and she was beside herself upset because she needed her mommy to tuck her in and had pretty much turned into a very whiny toddler because mommy was out with her boyfriend and wasn’t home to tuck her in. It was an amazing conversation, and I had to keep my jaw in check to make sure it didn’t drop.


Jesus, that's...ick. Her parents are failing her in spades by babying her like that.

You're doing the right thing holding back and not trying to discipline her, if you'd come into her life when she was very young that would work, but she's too old now for you to do it. It has to be her father, which is a big problem because he's not doing it. Neither it appears, is her mother. Both parents allow her to play them against the other. They both need to grow up and put their love for their child before their hatred of each other.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Ursula said:


> About a week ago, she called her “Dada” (what she calls her Dad) at just after 11pm on a weeknight. Her mom wasn’t home to tuck her into bed and she was beside herself upset because she needed her mommy to tuck her in and had pretty much turned into a very whiny toddler because mommy was out with her boyfriend and wasn’t home to tuck her in. It was an amazing conversation, and I had to keep my jaw in check to make sure it didn’t drop.


She was home alone at 11pm at night? Have I missed something? It sounds more like she felt vulnerable not that she needed to be tucked in. This feels very wrong to it would be classed as child neglect here. She is only 11.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

m.t.t said:


> She was home alone at 11pm at night? Have I missed something? It sounds more like she felt vulnerable not that she needed to be tucked in. This feels very wrong to it would be classed as child neglect here. She is only 11.


I guess it depends on perspective. 

She's almost 12. At that age, 12, I was babysitting toddlers and babies in my neighborhood while the parents were out later than that 😯


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I guess it depends on perspective.
> 
> She's almost 12. At that age, 12, I was babysitting toddlers and babies in my neighborhood while the parents were out later than that 😯


but she is 11 and not 12. Why do people push childrens ages up all the time... it's driving me nuts lately. My child is 14 and won't be 15 until March but her father has been saying she is nearly 15 since July. People do this only when it suits them. I bet they are not saying that for scenarios when under 12 is cheaper.

I think our parents did not consider us as much. I would never leave my 12 year old responsible for a baby or toddler nor would I leave my baby or toddler with a 12 year old. It's a lot of responsibility to put the life of a child in the hands of another child. 

A few years back a mother left her 3 year old with a young girl of of around 12 while she went to work in a nearby doctors office. It was school holidays. Another parent left her child with another young babysiter and these two girls got together to look after younger children together. So they were a group of young children. 

They decided to play at the park which turned into a game of hide and seek which ended in the death of of the 3 year old. She sadly ran onto a main road in the excitement of finding a hiding spot. It was tragic, these girls didn't have the ability to gauge potential hazards. One child died and the other children, the babysitters are left to deal with the responsibility of the death of a child in a poorly thought out game.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

I agree that the daughter is just a child that is going through the pain of her parents separating. She is angry and she has a right to be feeling however she feels. The daughter should come first, it's her parents responsibility to put the child before any new partners. She wants to feel important and loved. When parents divorce children are left with a lot of feelings to work through.

I think you are great Ursula, but you sound like you are starting resent her for having feelings and getting in the way of a calm life with her dad. Parents are allowed to have a life after a divorce and children should be taught respect but she doesn't have to like you, if she is having issues with you being around then I think it's on her father to sort it out and work out what is best for her. This may look like not staying over when it's her week. Unless there is a legitimate reason she should be made to stay with the parents who week it is. She needs boundaries and security atm as she is a child.
She might need some help dealing with her feelings, so some counselling might be helpful for her.

Oh and sleeping with her dad at this age should be looked at a boundary issue at the very least. It also makes me feel uncomfortable.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

m.t.t said:


> but she is 11 and not 12. Why do people push childrens ages up all the time... it's driving me nuts lately. My child is 14 and won't be 15 until March but her father has been saying she is nearly 15 since July. People do this only when it suits them. I bet they are not saying that for scenarios when under 12 is cheaper.
> 
> I think our parents did not consider us as much. I would never leave my 12 year old responsible for a baby or toddler nor would I leave my baby or toddler with a 12 year old. It's a lot of responsibility to put the life of a child in the hands of another child.
> 
> ...


This girl will be 12 next month. Next month. It's not a stretch to call her almost 12.

Yeah, next month. It's okay. Really.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

m.t.t said:


> I agree that the daughter is just a child that is going through the pain of her parents separating. She is angry and she has a right to be feeling however she feels. The daughter should come first, it's her parents responsibility to put the child before any new partners. She wants to feel important and loved. When parents divorce children are left with a lot of feelings to work through.
> 
> I think you are great Ursula, but you sound like you are starting resent her for having feelings and getting in the way of a calm life with her dad. Parents are allowed to have a life after a divorce and children should be taught respect but she doesn't have to like you, if she is having issues with you being around then I think it's on her father to sort it out and work out what is best for her. This may look like not staying over when it's her week. Unless there is a legitimate reason she should be made to stay with the parents who week it is. She needs boundaries and security atm as she is a child.
> She might need some help dealing with her feelings, so some counselling might be helpful for her.
> ...


If I recall correctly it's been many YEARS since the divorce. It's didn't just happen. And this man and Ursula have been dating for years, too. 

At a certain point, years after a divorce, a person should be able to partner up again and not be scolded for not putting their child "first". 🙄


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Unfortunately I have experience in step parenting. It was the most thankless responsibility I ever had in my life. Parenting is the biggest issue in these situations, and you have zero control over that… and it’s never going to change. 

Have you heard of disengaging as it applies to step parenting? Basically it means you take zero responsibility for the child and also have zero expectations. If you cook dinner, it’s never to please her, so it doesn’t matter whether she eats it or not. Not your problem. If she thanks you, awesome. If not, it wasn’t expected anyway. No resentment to be had. How she behaves or turns out, also not your problem. How she’s parented, not your problem. What she wears or complains about… you get the idea. 

The good part of this is you can enjoy the kid when they are being lovely or engaging in doing something with you and her father. Like games or watching movies or even conversations. But if she gets moody or nasty, you can remove yourself from the situation emotionally and or physically. Something that parents can’t do. So literally you get to take advantage of only the good things and let her parents wallow in the bad stuff that they created and enable. 

This will not only give you peace of mind, because you can’t resent someone whom you expect NOTHING from, but she will likely start to realize you aren’t a threat and aren’t trying to parent her, nor do you tolerate or stick around for her hissy fits. She may even grow to respect you at some point. But if not at least you’ll be a non entity to her. 

I am pretty sure that this is why boyfriends are usually accepted more readily than girlfriends. Men usually aren’t in there trying to create rules and make other peoples kids eat their veggies, they are like, “hey wanna play video games?”


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> She was home alone at 11pm at night? Have I missed something? It sounds more like she felt vulnerable not that she needed to be tucked in. This feels very wrong to it would be classed as child neglect here. She is only 11.


Oh gosh, sorry, I should have clarified in my initial post: she was at home with her 17 year old sister. So, not alone, just that her mom wasn't home.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I guess it depends on perspective.
> 
> She's almost 12. At that age, 12, I was babysitting toddlers and babies in my neighborhood while the parents were out later than that 😯


She also just got her babysitting certificate after a course that she took one weekend a few weeks ago. I'm not entirely sure how she's going to fare doing this, as she's scared of the dark, and can't stay by herself for any amount of time once it gets dark out.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> I agree that the daughter is just a child that is going through the pain of her parents separating. She is angry and she has a right to be feeling however she feels. The daughter should come first, it's her parents responsibility to put the child before any new partners. She wants to feel important and loved. When parents divorce children are left with a lot of feelings to work through.
> 
> I think you are great Ursula, but you sound like you are starting resent her for having feelings and getting in the way of a calm life with her dad. Parents are allowed to have a life after a divorce and children should be taught respect but she doesn't have to like you, if she is having issues with you being around then I think it's on her father to sort it out and work out what is best for her. This may look like not staying over when it's her week. Unless there is a legitimate reason she should be made to stay with the parents who week it is. She needs boundaries and security atm as she is a child. She might need some help dealing with her feelings, so some counselling might be helpful for her.
> 
> Oh and sleeping with her dad at this age should be looked at a boundary issue at the very least. It also makes me feel uncomfortable.


@m.t.t, yeah, I agree with you with those thoughts, and I know that her greatest wish would be for her parents to get back together. Unfortunately, that will never happen. She does have a right to feel the way that she does, but if she feels so angry, you would think that she would want to feel better by talking it through. And I do agree that she should come first. She does come first in our household, but not in her mother's. Drinking and smoking pot come first in that household.

I don't feel like I'm doing great, but thank-you for that! I'm definitely starting to lose patience, but try to remember that she's 11, and a very young 11 at that, she's Daddy's girl, and she needs her Dad right now, not me. I'm not really resenting her, and hope that it doesn't get to that point. I would just prefer it if she would express her feelings to her Dad instead of just shutting down and not talking at all. That helps no one, and ends up hurting everyone involved. Her Dad has come home more than once in tears because of her behaviour and not communicating with him.

Children should be taught respect, but unfortunately in this day and age, that's a rare thing that is taught. She doesn't have to like me, no, but she should at the very least respect her Dad, and realize that she cannot make adult decisions for him. She's having major issues being around me, and I told BF that maybe we moved in too fast, and that I should have had access to spending more time with her before now. He was good about inviting me out each time he had her for one day on the weekend. We had a great time doing a bunch of activities, and then that stopped for months. I mentioned it, the visits started up again, but it was sporadic. BF and I were just really tired of doing the long-distance, and 3.5 years of that was exhausting, and it was time for a change for US. But, it was too fast for his daughter. 

BF has tried to sort it out, but like I said, she shuts down, storms up to her room and slams the door. Then she calls her mother, and was should be a positive situation of open, honest communications and sharing feelings, turns into something terrible. Her mother is probably putting awful information into her head (BF and both of his folks have said this). 

As for boundaries, she hasn't had any up until sometime before I moved in. She was allowed to do and say whatever she wanted, and got everything that she wanted. BF started to set boundaries and enforce some rules before I moved in, and continues to do so, but honestly, I think it's too little too late. Honestly, if I were 11 and had zero rules or boundaries, and suddenly did, I'd be pissed off too. Life is more fun when you can do what you want; rules suck. 

I've mentioned to BF about me and my dog moving in with my folks on his week he has his daughter, and that's really not something that he wants, and I don't either. She's never going to get used to me if she still never sees me. She also apparently loves her mother's boyfriend now, who she used to loathe. He was the reason that she spent so much more time with her Dad. Not sure why she adores him so much now; he's the one who got her mother into doing and selling cocaine. Both girls have found and flushed bags of it, which I commend them for.

Oh, and counselling should be an option, but again, she refuses to talk, so it's really not very helpful.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> If I recall correctly it's been many YEARS since the divorce. It's didn't just happen. And this man and Ursula have been dating for years, too.
> 
> At a certain point, years after a divorce, a person should be able to partner up again and not be scolded for not putting their child "first". 🙄


Correct, BF and I have been together for 3 years and 8 months now, and he was single for 1 year prior to that when he separated from his XW, so him and his XW have been living apart for about 4 years and 8 months now. It's been awhile!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> Unfortunately I have experience in step parenting. It was the most thankless responsibility I ever had in my life. Parenting is the biggest issue in these situations, and you have zero control over that… and it’s never going to change.
> 
> Have you heard of disengaging as it applies to step parenting? Basically it means you take zero responsibility for the child and also have zero expectations. If you cook dinner, it’s never to please her, so it doesn’t matter whether she eats it or not. Not your problem. If she thanks you, awesome. If not, it wasn’t expected anyway. No resentment to be had. How she behaves or turns out, also not your problem. How she’s parented, not your problem. What she wears or complains about… you get the idea.
> 
> ...


I love this post, and this is what I had decided to do a few days ago. I also called BF's parents on the weekend, as I needed someone to talk to who knows everyone involved, but is still far enough away from it to be objective. BF's Dad said the same thing as a game plan going forward. So, that's what I did for most of this weekend.

Daughter wanted a kitten, and has been begging both parents for one. BF and I talked about it and agreed that we would not be getting a kitten. We currently have 2 dogs (I lost my little guy on Oct 1, but still have my girl; BF also has a dog), and daughter's fish that we look after too. The mother though broke down and got her a kitten, which she brought over this weekend. BF's dog is a hunter, so we had to keep her reigned pretty tight, but she was eager for me and my girl to meet the kitten, so up to her room we went when she first got there. She seemed fine, friendly and eager then, but the rest of the weekend, my dog and I holed up in the computer room for most part working on Christmas projects. Her and her Dad went out and about and had fun just the 2 of them. Did I want to join them? Sure did! Afterall, I didn't choose a man who has small children to sit on the sidelines. It's depressing, but it's what's needed at this time.

I remember a few weeks ago, her Dad was out with a friend, and her and I were at home. She had gotten really mad about something (we still don't know what), and was in her room. She eventually came out, and was fiddling around downstairs. She wanted to make jello, and came upstairs asking if a glass tumbler could go in the microwave. Good thing I asked what it was for, otherwise there would have been a jello catastrophe! I helped her make the jello, or actually I made it for her because she's scared of the kettle. Next time though, I will let her have at it, and let her Dad see the mess when he gets home.

I will just back off and let everything be; she's not my child, and therefore really shouldn't be my concern unless she's in harm's way.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

He is failing his daughter by allowing her to act like a baby. You may end up with way more serious problems when she hits her teen years. People who have no boundaries - well - they have no boundaries. Think about the implications of this for when she hits her teen years. Your boyfriend is setting her up for disaster. I would recommend that he get into therapy and learn how to parent his children before she ends up in jail or worse.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Ursula said:


> I love this post, and this is what I had decided to do a few days ago. I also called BF's parents on the weekend, as I needed someone to talk to who knows everyone involved, but is still far enough away from it to be objective. BF's Dad said the same thing as a game plan going forward. So, that's what I did for most of this weekend.
> 
> Daughter wanted a kitten, and has been begging both parents for one. BF and I talked about it and agreed that we would not be getting a kitten. We currently have 2 dogs (I lost my little guy on Oct 1, but still have my girl; BF also has a dog), and daughter's fish that we look after too. The mother though broke down and got her a kitten, which she brought over this weekend. BF's dog is a hunter, so we had to keep her reigned pretty tight, but she was eager for me and my girl to meet the kitten, so up to her room we went when she first got there. She seemed fine, friendly and eager then, but the rest of the weekend, my dog and I holed up in the computer room for most part working on Christmas projects. Her and her Dad went out and about and had fun just the 2 of them. Did I want to join them? Sure did! Afterall, I didn't choose a man who has small children to sit on the sidelines. It's depressing, but it's what's needed at this time.
> 
> ...


Saves you a lot of drama that way. And yeah it sucks to have to sit out for things, but if you find things to do on your own that are fun you might get more time for yourself which is a benefit too. Id rather spend time having a glass of wine with a girlfriend and crafting something than dealing with tween/teen attitude. 

As she grows older she will likely want to spend a LOT less time with him as he transitions to being her wallet and car ride and you’ll have to actively work to not care about the sheer amount of $$$ being shelled out for stuff to “make her happy”, which seems very common for parents like this. But with a lot more focus on making sure your energy goes into spoiling yourself rather than thinking of that dysfunction… it’s time well spent. You don’t lose out or lose your sanity caring about things you are powerless to change.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I witnessed first-hand the power adult children can have over a very indulgent dad. It’s not a pretty sight. Unfortunately they don’t just grow up one day and decide no more depending on dad’s generosity (and guilt). The amount of money that goes out usually increases the older they get. It can be staggering. I knew I wouldn’t be able to keep my mouth shut forever — and I knew he wouldn’t ever stop being an enabler — so I moved on. You are probably better than I am at biting your tongue and I’m afraid you’re going to need that ability as long as you’re with him.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

After over 4.5 since the divorce, and 3.5 years of being in a relationship with you, this man should be able to have a life partner again. 

I do think you will never have a normal relationship, nor homelife, because everyone is letting this girl dictate it. 

Is your homelife with him harming your health? It doesn't sound happy or secure, at all.

I know you love him and want this to work, but perhaps it would be best to go your separate ways.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Openminded said:


> I witnessed first-hand the power adult children can have over a very indulgent dad. It’s not a pretty sight. Unfortunately they don’t just grow up one day and decide no more depending on dad’s generosity (and guilt). The amount of money that goes out usually increases the older they get. It can be staggering. I knew I wouldn’t be able to keep my mouth shut forever — and I knew he wouldn’t ever stop being an enabler — so I moved on. You are probably better than I am at biting your tongue and I’m afraid you’re going to need that ability as long as you’re with him.


Yep. It’s either not care and actually disengage from that (which is not easy to do) or stop dating them. Watching thousands of dollars a month fly out the window for one entitled teenager/young adult is really difficult to see.
These kids learn to manipulate to the nth degree and their parents never do stop.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Yep. It’s either not care and actually disengage from that (which is not easy to do) or stop dating them. Watching thousands of dollars a month fly out the window for one entitled teenager/young adult is really difficult to see.
> These kids learn to manipulate to the nth degree and their parents never do stop.


Yes, it was horrifying the amount of money that flew out of his account. Need a new car? Ask dad. Need a sizable down payment on a house? Ask dad. Need a ski vacation on the other side of the world? Ask dad. I really couldn’t believe anyone indulged their 40-something children to that extent. My own adult child seems to manage life just fine but his? Nope. As time went on I had less and less patience whenever I heard about that (he complained to me as he transferred money to them). We had other problems as well but that was a big one. Divorce guilt apparently can last forever for some.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Cynthia said:


> He is failing his daughter by allowing her to act like a baby. You may end up with way more serious problems when she hits her teen years. People who have no boundaries - well - they have no boundaries. Think about the implications of this for when she hits her teen years. Your boyfriend is setting her up for disaster. I would recommend that he get into therapy and learn how to parent his children before she ends up in jail or worse.


This one, I don't think will get arrested, I think she's just going to be very, very hard to deal with. His other daughter though is a bit of a lost cause, headed down the same street as her mother. Unfortunately, she has a Grade 8, partial Grade 9 education. She dropped out in Grade 9, Grade 10 and Grade 11. No job, and she sits in her room, smokes her bong and drinks. Stellar life she's set up for, but she lives predominantly with her mother who is her biological parent. Youngest says about the oldest that she thinks what she does is "stupid". We tell her to hang onto those thoughts.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> After over 4.5 since the divorce, and 3.5 years of being in a relationship with you, this man should be able to have a life partner again.
> 
> I do think you will never have a normal relationship, nor homelife, because everyone is letting this girl dictate it.
> 
> ...


He should be able to, and thankfully he hit the point quite some time ago, where he started putting us first sometimes. Not all the time of course, but when it's important, we get priority. My homelife with him is happy and it is secure, but I do find his youngest to be very negative and the environment can be a downer when she's around. Those days, unless she's got her eyes glued to her ipad, we hear the word, "Dada" probably every 20-30 seconds, and the man is run off his feet.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> Yep. It’s either not care and actually disengage from that (which is not easy to do) or stop dating them. Watching thousands of dollars a month fly out the window for one entitled teenager/young adult is really difficult to see.
> These kids learn to manipulate to the nth degree and their parents never do stop.


Thankfully he has stopped with his oldest; she no longer gets everything that she demands.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Is the oldest his bio child?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Openminded said:


> Is the oldest his bio child?


No, he adopted her when him and his now XW got married; I believe she was around 3 at the time, so he's the only Dad she's ever known.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Must admit I was grateful that my step children were boys. Women dating a guy with daughters can often cause real jealousy and other issues. 
That's not to say his sons haven't both been real pains in the xxxxxxx over the last 18 years, but at least there wasn't that competition between the daughter and dads partner..


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Ursula ,

If I could propose one word of warning? I think the "hands off" approach you're taking to this dysfunction is probably the best option, but I'd also recommend keeping your finances separate as you and your significant other move forward. In other words, don't mingle funds but rather come up with some equitable way to each pay your way.

Here's why: the day may (or may not) come that YD makes more and more demands of him (like sporting gear, gas driving her around, school expenses, after activities expenses, trips, private school...etc., etc., etc.) and since his parenting style is about 99% giving into her, you don't want to have YOUR financial well-being jeopardized due to his choices to indulge her. In other words, I encourage you to pay your fair share of home, utilities, bills and food--pay your own car and insurance--and expect him to pay his same fair share of home and utilities. And if he wants to piddle away his discretionary income indulging her, that's his choice--at least YOU won't be financially impacted!

As an example, you keep your account(s), he keeps his account(s), and you don't have a "joint" account that everything goes into. Instead, determine your portion of the household and have that electronically withdrawn from your account to the payee. You uphold your financial end, and keep your finances in order and keep saving and investing. Again if he wants to indulge her, that's his business, but your savings and your investing are not his and don't mingle with him so he'll never be able to use your earnings to do things you don't 100% enthusiastically agree with.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I was grateful that my step children were boys. Women dating a guy with daughters can often cause real jealousy and other issues.
> That's not to say his sons haven't both been real pains in the xxxxxxx over the last 18 years, but at least there wasn't that competition between the daughter and dads partner..


BF has said that if youngest daughter were a son instead, the issues would be way less.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @Ursula ,If I could propose one word of warning? I think the "hands off" approach you're taking to this dysfunction is probably the best option, but I'd also recommend keeping your finances separate as you and your significant other move forward. In other words, don't mingle funds but rather come up with some equitable way to each pay your way.
> 
> Here's why: the day may (or may not) come that YD makes more and more demands of him (like sporting gear, gas driving her around, school expenses, after activities expenses, trips, private school...etc., etc., etc.) and since his parenting style is about 99% giving into her, you don't want to have YOUR financial well-being jeopardized due to his choices to indulge her. In other words, I encourage you to pay your fair share of home, utilities, bills and food--pay your own car and insurance--and expect him to pay his same fair share of home and utilities. And if he wants to piddle away his discretionary income indulging her, that's his choice--at least YOU won't be financially impacted!
> 
> As an example, you keep your account(s), he keeps his account(s), and you don't have a "joint" account that everything goes into. Instead, determine your portion of the household and have that electronically withdrawn from your account to the payee. You uphold your financial end, and keep your finances in order and keep saving and investing. Again if he wants to indulge her, that's his business, but your savings and your investing are not his and don't mingle with him so he'll never be able to use your earnings to do things you don't 100% enthusiastically agree with.


Oh, that's definitely something that we're doing! We talked about this well before moving in that we would do this for a couple years, then look at moving into a more long-term home and share expenses from there. I'm thinking not now though! I pay my own car, insurance on that, plus "tenants" isurance with him and rental insurance on the other home that I own. I have another home that I'm renting out at the moment, which is going really well. My thinking on that way back when I had more hope for his girls was that if they ever wanted a home to stay, that I would charge them minimal rent and they could live there kind of as a starter home. At this point now though, they can find their own starter homes! That income is helping to pay off some extravagant vet bill debts at this time, then it will go to building up my savings. There's no way that I will be funding any sort of lifestyle for either girl. That's up to the parents.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I was grateful that my step children were boys. Women dating a guy with daughters can often cause real jealousy and other issues.
> That's not to say his sons haven't both been real pains in the xxxxxxx over the last 18 years, but at least there wasn't that competition between the daughter and dads partner..


I totally agree with that. The guy I was engaged to had two adult daughters (approaching 40). They made it clear they would always be Daddy’s Little Girls — especially when it came to money. There were other problems as well and I really couldn’t see myself in the middle of that situation. Many men tend to indulge their daughters their entire lives and that frequently creates problems for their own partner. It can be a very difficult position to be in.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ursula said:


> BF has said that if youngest daughter were a son instead, the issues would be way less.


That’s likely true — in many ways. Few men will indulge their sons the way they may indulge their daughters (obviously not all men indulge their daughters but that’s a stereotype of father/daughter relationships for a reason). Unfortunately his acknowledgment doesn’t mean he will ever stop so distance yourself from all of that as much as you can and you’ll be better off. Hopefully, he’s financially responsible enough not to spend all his money on her (or on both of them if he gives the other daughter money) and then expect you to help him out whenever he’s short. Now that you’ve witnessed their dynamic up close for awhile you are much more aware of the need to protect yourself.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

So, here are some fun new developments:

BF's XW has never really been able to hold down a job for the last number of years, and was most recently apparently working for her own BF. She was also recently let go (fired, laid off, who knows), and therefore can't pay her rent, so she's being evicted. The older daughter (17) lives with her, as well as a bunny and now the new kitten. Her mother (the girl's Nana) said that she will take in the daughters, but not her own daughter because of the amount of drugs that she does. She also can't take in either animal. We can obviously take in the youngest daughter, but have no room for the oldest, although she would probably stay with us for a short while, until she figured out that she would either have to work or go to school. Then she'd probably leave. And we may be able to take in the bunny, but can't take the kitten. It's quite the mess! However, this news also broke about a month ago now, and still they're in their home. I also know that it's hard and a long process to kick out tenants.

Daughter didn't stay with us for a long while, and for the past month, she's been back regularly, every second week. I am never invited to go out and do things with them, go on errands with them, or do things around the house like have a movie night or watch a TV show. I am pretty much still an outsider looking in, and have shed many a tear about this because TBH, it's upsetting. I didn't join a family to be a constant outsider. BF and I have had a few arguements about this (I think he should sit his daughter down and have a good heart to heart; he thinks we need to give her time). I've realized that she holds control in the household, and that's not cool.

She's still talking like a toddler, which I've started correcting (Lily's name is pronounced Li-ly, not Wi-wi; there are L's in it, not W's). Funny enough, she prounounces her bunny's Name, Lulu correctly. Her Dada still doesn't think that there's anything wrong with the way she talks/acts, and she's going to be 12 in 2 weeks. Dada still needs to hand her a towel upon getting out of the tub/shower, still has to tuck her in sometimes more than once. The initial tuck-in can take up to 30-40 mins as they watch funny videos together or have tickle fights. Still calls her Dad "Dada" which to me happens when a small child is learning how to talk for formulate words, it's not for a pre-teen. It's just such a weird dynamic. Oh and speaking of her turning 12, guess who's not invited to her birthday party? Me! She got a bunch of free tickets to the place they're going to though, from her mom's boyfriend, so she invited him. Thankfully he's not going. And as I type this up, I'm at work with a custom 3x1 foot canvas that I designed and made for her sits beside me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I know you love him, but you may have to ask yourself if he's worth all of this...worth your own views/opinions consistently coming in second. I get that may happen _sometimes_, but he should want you to be a significant part of his everyday life and not exclude you. Otherwise, why are you there, right?

I understand that his daughter didn't ask for this (divorce and all the chaos from her mom), but life isn't always fair. She shouldn't be able to control the house and walking on eggshells and allowing her chronic disrespect for you, isn’t doing himself any favors. Or his daughter. She’s learning how to be manipulative.

I still think there's hope (that you can all somehow come together and develop a somewhat healthy dynamic), she will hopefully mature...but, if he continues to baby her like this (out of guilt?) then, she won't mature, she'll just get older. You're very patient, and he should be thankful that he has found someone caring like you. But you just have to be cautious that you're not losing your voice...and yourself in this process. In the end, you can’t control their dynamic but you can control if you want constant dysfunction as a part of your relationship with your bf.

Regarding his ex-wife - is that why they split up? Her drug addiction?

Maybe leave all of them, and just take the bunny and kitten. Just kidding!


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## BootsAndJeans (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> Divorce is hell on kids. If her mom and dad don’t get along, back each up and support each other in co-parenting it’s even worse, and will have a life long effect on her future relationships. I don’t know if there’s an answer. He definitely needs to be the adult and not tolerate her disrespect, I believe that’s true of all adult/child relationships, but from everything I’ve heard from divorced parents in real life, they are afraid to do that, for exactly the reason this girl is doing. Playing them against each other. I can’t even be totally pissed at the girl for being a brat; her life was shattered. I think you behave beautifully and really respect how you just step back and try to stay out of it. You’re in a really tricky spot. Who knows, she may well come to love you very much some day, or she may stay stunted as an adult. Right now she’s acting like a scared and angry little girl, because that’s what she is.


^^^^Listen to this wise woman^^^^


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Can you see that you are being mistreated?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your bf is obviously okay with how things are. He might not be crazy about all of it but he doesn’t want to rock the boat with her and who knows if it will ever really change. My guess is that he would still be letting her sleep with him if you hadn’t made that a condition of moving in but apparently that’s one of the very few things he was willing to compromise on. I find their dynamic very strange — especially the bath ritual. It reeks of baby girl not wanting to grow up and dada allowing her behavior and certainly that part is getting creepy considering her age. That leaves you with a decision to make sooner or later.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My youngest grandchild is now a young adult and has never grown up. Why? Primarily because of a very indulgent other parent. None of that was allowed during the week my child had the children but the other household was a place with few rules and the damage was done. Now that child sees life starting to get hard. College doesn’t care that your parents are divorced and you’re the baby. They just want you to handle your responsibilities like the young adult that you are. Your bf is obviously doing his daughter no favors by catering to her and one day the price will have to be paid if he continues. Maybe she’ll surprise everyone and grow up to be a responsible adult. I wouldn’t bet on it though. So you have to consider where that leaves you.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Cynthia, yes I can, and am starting to have some not-very-nice feelings towards that fact.

@Openminded, you're right, he's OK with how things are going, is glad to have his daughter back for her regular time with him, and doesn't want to rock that boat. I'd guess the same thing (about the sharing his bed with her). Their dynamic is super odd and super wrong in some regards. If I had a son who was pre-teen, he could get him own damn towel. And yes, if things don't improve by I think July, him and I will be having a sit-down and a hard talk. I say July because I would need to give my tenant some time to find a new place so that I can move back to my home. I also very much agree with BF doing his daughter a huge disservice by still treating her like a baby. She's going to have a very difficult time in the future if things don't change soon. I hope that she grows to be a mature and responsible young woman, but time will tell.

@deidre, I've been asking myself that a lot lately TBH. I know that he wants what's best for his little one, and his heart is in the right place, but I wish he could see the situation from another position. He doesn't think the situation is that bad, and that things will improve. I think they'll get waaaay worse before they get better. Maybe that's my negative thinking, but the youngest is going to his puberty soon. Her attitude is already awful; I shudder to think of her with PMS. For the record, BF DOES want me included in their family, but I don't think he knows how to talk to his kid about it.

No, his daughter didn't ask for a divorce, an unstable mother, to be abused by her cousin. I feel for her for sure. But, at the same time, there just comes a time to grow up. If she's hurting, use words to describe it. Stop playing one parent against the other, etc. I also feel like there's a little bit of hope left, and yes, I really do care about my BF, but I'm also coming to the end of my patience. Yes, BF parents out of guilt. And yes, he should be very thankful to be with someone who has so much patience; I know of exactly zero other women who'd go through all this for a man. And no worries, I won't lose my voice; I know my own worth, and will lose the relationship before I lose myself in it. Oh, and yes, that's why BF left his XW (constant drinking and smoking pot, always high or drunk and very volatile). Haha, honestly, they can have the bunny and kitten! I'll just grab my main furry girl who moved with me (her brother, sadly, passed a couple months ago).


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Ursula said:


> @Cynthia, yes I can, and am starting to have some not-very-nice feelings towards that fact.
> 
> 
> No, his daughter didn't ask for a divorce, an unstable mother, to be abused by her cousin. I feel for her for sure. But, at the same time, there just comes a time to grow up. If she's hurting, use words to describe it. Stop playing one parent against the other, etc. I also feel like there's a little bit of hope left, and yes, I really do care about my BF, but I'm also coming to the end of my patience.


I'm glad you realize that you are being mistreated and that you know that you don't deserve to be treated that way. I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation. He seems to be a good man, but very short sighted.

Playing one parent against the other is triangulation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Many men over-indulge their daughters but some go to a whole new level when they’re divorced. He’s one who has. You have more than six months left to observe — and to plan. If nothing significant has changed when you sit down to have “the talk” with him next summer, my guess is that he’s going to promise you all sorts of things to stay. But at that point he will have had about a year to make those changes and didn’t so remember that when you’re tempted to give him another shot at dealing with her. What he’s doing now is kicking the problem down the road and hoping a miracle will somehow happen that doesn’t involve action on his part. Next summer you’ll obviously have to decide if you want to continue your relationship with him as it was before you moved in or break up and find someone new. But, barring that miracle he’s hoping for, she’s likely to always be a situation to be dealt with — no matter what her age is — and that will make it difficult for the two of you to ever live happily together. Adult children can be as big a problem in relationships as young children.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Cynthia, he has his moments (heck, so do I), but yes, he's a good man, and his heart is in the right place, it's just that his brains also need to be where his heart is too.

@Openminded, personally, I wouldn't want to go back to doing long-distance, which is pretty much what we did for most of the 3.5 years before I moved. And so we would probably have to move on. I do agree that his youngest will always need to be dealt with in some way though and that adult children can be just as much of a problem.

So 2 evenings ago, BF had told me that he'd spoken to his daughter about this situation and that she needed to start including me in their lives. I guess she said that she didn't want to talk about it. I'm not sure what all was said, but at least he's still trying to get through to her. I got a chance to ask him about it last night. This though brought up a couple more questions from me, which made him defensive and combative, which in turn made me break down, and then I got mad. I'm generally a quiet person, and rarely even raise my voice, but boy did I yell and swear at him last night. I yelled so loud, the dogs ran into other rooms. I told him that I regret moving in, that I plan to move if things don't shape up even a little by the summer, that I hate living there, and that my life sucks ATM. I said a bunch of stuff that was all very true, but really, I could've said it without so much venom. He cried, I cried, we both apologized and agreed to treat each other nicer in the future. I also let him know that I can only be pushed so far before I snap; he was shocked that such an attack came from me.

When we'd both calmed down though, we did talk. He asked me what he should do with this situation. I told him that if roles were reversed, and I was the one with the child, I would have sat my child down a couple of years ago and told them this: "I realize that this is hard on you, and I'm sorry for that, but this is the person that I love and choose to build a future with. And that's my decision, not yours. This person is a good person and they aren't going to take over the role of your other parent; they are here to be your friend and a role model. I expect you to treat them with respect and they will be involved in our daily lives. Please come talk to me if you have any issues at all, I'm your parent, I love you and I'm open to hear what you think/feel". I also told him that if my child kicked up a stink about this like his is doing, I would take them to therapy (and sit with them through the session) to get to the root of the problem.

BF is terrible at sharing his feelings, and doesn't like to, but I did suggest that he might consider talking to a neutral person (therapist) about this situation to see if he can gain any insight on how to talk to his daughter, make the transition easier for us all, and maybe start seeing things from another perspective.

Daughter had gone to a birthday party and was back in the evening. I made the effort to engage with her because being as miserable and Debbie-downer as I was, was doing no one any good. It felt good to do that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It's rough. And he sounds like a good guy, Ursula. This isn't easy. 

The only way this will work for all of you is if you're not the only one making all the concessions. Every relationship has compromise, but it can't be one person all the time, making all of the compromises. I think he and his daughter should go into counseling together. Even if you weren't in the picture. 

Moving out might not be a bad idea, though. I'm sure that would lessen the day-to-day drama for you. Lots to think on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, a therapist for him is a great idea. Sometimes hearing it from someone not emotionally involved in the situation helps. Of course, he will have to follow through and that’s always the hard part. Very few women would tolerate what you have since you met him so if he chooses not to work on this and the two of you break up he can pretty much forget about finding someone else willing to put up with this situation. This is his shot at it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@Ursula, when it gets to the point where you lose control of your temper and let loose like that, you can't go on long without changes happening or it's going to become much worse than it already is.

The problem I see is that he is asking his daughter to include you in your own home. He's giving her control over how the household is run by asking her. She is a spoiled child with no reason to do anything she doesn't want to do or to work through anything. She is learning that this is an okay way to behave towards those you supposedly love. It's highly self-centered. Living with other people is not a self-centered activity. That makes your home not safe for everyone. He is not behaving like a father. Sometimes it is necessary to tell a child, "This is how it works. I'll help you learn how to do this." Instead, he's allowing you to be excluded and your feelings dismissed.

He didn't do a thing to make this work for you. He continued the same foolishness of asking the daughter to be so kind as to include you. That's not going to have any impact whatsoever.

I'm not saying that he needs to get agressive or domineering at all. I'm saying that he needs to calmly and with love set appropriate boundaries and standards with his child or he's going to have a lot more trouble in the future. If this were me in your position, I'd point out to him that his approach is not only not working, but it's furthering the problem, because he's giving her choices where no choice should exist. He may be afraid of losing his daughter, but that's his own fault. He has a custody agreement and he needs to enforce it. Again, firmly and with love.

He cannot have a healthy relationship with any woman with this going on.

I feel for you. This is truly unfair. You might want to insert yourself and say that you are not going to allow yourself to be treated this way. Then plop your butt down with a big bowl of shareable popcorn and watch the movie with them.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey @Cynthia, that was also something that was brought up last night, and I also told him that his child needed a Dad and not a buddy, which is what he's trying to be. I told him that she has friends at school, but at home she needs guidance and a parent who parents her. He knows all of this, but up until now he's been unwilling to change his ways. I think he's just scared of losing her to her mother who really isn't fit to be a parent. In a way, I see where he's coming from, but at the same time, he does need to change his ways. I'm hoping that my outburst last night triggered something in him and made him realize that I do mean business, and that I am prepared to leave him. Time will tell; he has until sometime in July, as my tenant's rental agreement is up at the end of August.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This kind of thing doesn't necessarily end when they grow into adulthood.

My ex's adult daughter used to exclude me from all kinds of stuff, and she'd send holidays cards to HIM. From her and her husband....they were a unit but we weren't. She was closer to her mother and he was terrified he'd see even less of her so he kissed her ass. He'd admit to me that it was ****ty but you know what'? He'd still go without me and not address it.....not that i wanted to see her spoiled snotty ass anyway. 

But in his mind I was supposed to kiss her ass....I was an easier target then her majesty who might not see him as much. It caused a lot of trouble in the marriage.

This kind of thing is a real possibility down the road if he doesn't start actually parenting and presenting you as a unit. His snotty 10 year old should not be the one deciding if you get to be around.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think you may be too nice, @Ursula. Like I said, insert yourself. Not in an angry way. In an assertive way. It's your home too. Don't let anyone shut you out of the activities going on in your own home. And don't take any disrespect, especially from a 12 year old. You can outplay her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Ursula said:


> So 2 evenings ago, BF had told me that he'd spoken to his daughter about this situation and that *she needed to start including me in their lives.*


Nope, wrong thing to say to her. Our steps didn't ask for any of the crap they've been forced to go through, starting with their parents divorcing. Divorce is awful for kids and the trauma is lifelong, especially when the parents don't co-parent well. The kids didn't choose us, they don't have to like us (they do have to be polite to us though, as they would anyone else). The big mistake your BF made was _talking _to her about it, there's been enough of that, it's not working. It's time for HIM to start _DOING_. HE is the one who needs to ensure that you're included. The child does not get a vote.

He should be spending 1:1 time with her on the weeks she's with you, as he already is, but the 3 of you should also be doing things together. Whether the girl likes it or not.

Him not allowing her to dictate his life is not him choosing you over her. He can love you both 100%. She won't understand that yet, she's too young, but he needs to lead by example.

Calling him Dada is creepy. Ew.

Baby talking is ew also. In your shoes I wouldn't correct her though given the struggles you're having, I simply wouldn't respond to her until she speaks normally. I'd say "oh sorry, I didn't hear you" or something.

Your BF needs to get this girl some boundaries, discipline and consequences, or her life will be hard, because when she gets out in the real world and pulls this crap - which she will because it's all she knows, she'll get a hell of a shock. Both her parents are failing her but your BF's conduct is the only one HE can control.

Good luck honey!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ursula please have a happy Christmas and don't let this child lock you out of Christmas doings and celebrations in your own home.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

~~ thread bump ~~

@Ursula - just checking on you, hope you had a great holiday and happy new year! 🌟


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The role my last ex played with my daughter was more of a "big sis" then a stepmother and there weren't any real conflicts but last ex was a natural with children and was a student teacher, they all ganged up on me most of the time 🙄

Is it really expected for you to involve yourself this much? We involved my ex as little as possible not to mention there was really no room for a third parent, ex wife and I have solid coparenting arrangements for a decade though so...


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> ~~ thread bump ~~
> 
> @Ursula - just checking on you, hope you had a great holiday and happy new year! 🌟


Hey @*Deidre*! The holiday was a really nice break, a little drama from both kids, as neither of them wanted to spend Christmas with their Dad as that would leave their mom and nana alone together. So, he was pretty bummed out about that, but we did end up having a nice time together and a nice break. How was your Christmas holiday and New Year?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Ursula said:


> Hey @*Deidre*! The holiday was a really nice break, a little drama from both kids, as neither of them wanted to spend Christmas with their Dad as that would leave their mom and nana alone together. So, he was pretty bummed out about that, but we did end up having a nice time together and a nice break. How was your Christmas holiday and New Year?


Happy to see that you had a great holiday break. There's just something about that time of year, at least for me, that just seems magical, for lack of a better word. Like anything is possible, you look forward to a new year. Strangers seem kinder, lol I don't know, I just love from Halloween, onward...

My husband and I had an amazing break...neither of us checked our work emails the entire two weeks. It made the break so much more relaxing.

Hope you have a great year ahead. With far less drama. 😊


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Ursula please have a happy Christmas and don't let this child lock you out of Christmas doings and celebrations in your own home.


I know that I had planned to not be home for Christmas morning if the kids were going to be there, but things actually took a turn in the right direction just before Christmas. I had gone overnight to my folks house for a night, and told BF very point-blank that we weren't going to make it if he didn't step up and parent his kid instead of being her buddy and scared to offend her. I came back home and things had changed. The weekend before Christmas, BF needed to do some shopping; youngest wasn't supposed to be with us, but ended up staying, so she came along, but he was shopping for her mostly, so her and I got to hang out. It was nerve-wracking, I was worried, but the day was great! I learned a lot about her, and we had a good time together. It's been that way since then, so it's a really welcome change, and it's a MUCH happier household for everyone! Even the dogs aren't stressed out anymore.

And I also think that during Christmas, BF realized just how spoiled and ungrateful his kids both are. There were a LOT of gifts between Christmas and the youngest's 12th bday, and while there were thank-yous, there was also a text at 1am on boxing day morning: "hey, can you leave our gift cards between the doors, we wanna go shopping tomorrow". Youngest picked up the cards without coming in and saying hello to her Dad. He was really mad/upset. But, I think (hope) it was eye-opening.

Fingers crossed that things stay on the right path, and stay positive. It's nice to not feel like having to walk around on eggshells in my own home. Or hobble: my furry girl and I biffed it on our stairs a few days ago. Furry girl didn't get harmed in any way (maybe a little squished while tucked in my arm), but this dog Mama fractured an ankle, haha, it's been quite the new year!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Happy to see that you had a great holiday break. There's just something about that time of year, at least for me, that just seems magical, for lack of a better word. Like anything is possible, you look forward to a new year. Strangers seem kinder, lol I don't know, I just love from Halloween, onward...
> 
> My husband and I had an amazing break...neither of us checked our work emails the entire two weeks. It made the break so much more relaxing.
> 
> Hope you have a great year ahead. 😊


I totally get that magical feeling as well, just something about this time of year. Glad to hear that you guys had a fantastic email-free break! Enjoy your 2023! 😊


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> The role my last ex played with my daughter was more of a "big sis" then a stepmother and there weren't any real conflicts but last ex was a natural with children and was a student teacher, they all ganged up on me most of the time 🙄
> 
> Is it really expected for you to involve yourself this much? We involved my ex as little as possible not to mention there was really no room for a third parent, ex wife and I have solid coparenting arrangements for a decade though so...


I like that "big sis" idea way more than being a stepmother. However, there hasn't really been any chance for either of those to happen, but I'm a little more hopeful these days.

As for me being involved, it's mostly because I want to be. My immediate family could be pretty terrible to be while I was growing up and even into adulthood. I didn't really feel like I belonged in that family, and never got the chance to start my own. I didn't plan to find someone with children, but that's who I ended up falling for, and we talked about me joining his family in the future. So, that was something that I looked forward to.

BF and his ex, unfortunately don't have solid coparenting arrangements, due to his ex being quite volatile, so I also wanted to show his girls what a stable, strong woman looked like and model that for them. I wanted to be their friend, a soft place to fall if they needed that, a confidant. They've made this hard to do. It's fantastic that you and your ex have a solid coparenting plan though; not everyone does.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ursula said:


> I like that "big sis" idea way more than being a stepmother. However, there hasn't really been any chance for either of those to happen, but I'm a little more hopeful these days.
> 
> As for me being involved, it's mostly because I want to be. My immediate family could be pretty terrible to be while I was growing up and even into adulthood. I didn't really feel like I belonged in that family, and never got the chance to start my own. I didn't plan to find someone with children, but that's who I ended up falling for, and we talked about me joining his family in the future. So, that was something that I looked forward to.
> 
> BF and his ex, unfortunately don't have solid coparenting arrangements, due to his ex being quite volatile, so I also wanted to show his girls what a stable, strong woman looked like and model that for them. I wanted to be their friend, a soft place to fall if they needed that, a confidant. They've made this hard to do. It's fantastic that you and your ex have a solid coparenting plan though; not everyone does.


Aye, and your BF isn't helping, I know he wants to spoil his kid out of guilt... heck I do too but I try to make sure to reward only good behaviour. What he did just made me cringe, kids remember these things and exploit it to the hilt, so she'll be whinging and sulking because it works. Does your BF understand this at least?

As for the two of you, does his daughter do anything that you both can enjoy? Ex and kid loved to both sing and dance for instance. There needs to be more of a bond so she sees you more than just "dad's girlfriend" IMO.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Aye, and your BF isn't helping, I know he wants to spoil his kid out of guilt... heck I do too but I try to make sure to reward only good behaviour. What he did just made me cringe, kids remember these things and exploit it to the hilt, so she'll be whinging and sulking because it works. Does your BF understand this at least?
> 
> As for the two of you, does his daughter do anything that you both can enjoy? Ex and kid loved to both sing and dance for instance. There needs to be more of a bond so she sees you more than just "dad's girlfriend" IMO.


Oh I know, and I'm not even a parent! Unfortunately, I can see it in her already with her defiance; she won't listen to her Dad if he asks her to do something she doesn't want to do. Last night, it was: eat 3 more bites of your meal. She bartered down to 2 bites, and then refused to eat those; the entire episode took about 5 minutes of whining and carrying on, which is (in my mind) a little much for a 12 year old. BF understands this, but he has a REALLY heard time snapping out of his ways. He likes to give in out of guilt maybe, or maybe to just get her to stop her whining. I'm not sure TBH.

His daughter enjoys outdoor activities; this season it's skating and tobogganing, which we also enjoy. She shoots a hockey puck around with her Dad, and we all enjoy movies. Her and I enjoy crafting and building things with our hands, baking as well.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ursula said:


> Oh I know, and I'm not even a parent! Unfortunately, I can see it in her already with her defiance; she won't listen to her Dad if he asks her to do something she doesn't want to do. Last night, it was: eat 3 more bites of your meal. She bartered down to 2 bites, and then refused to eat those; the entire episode took about 5 minutes of whining and carrying on, which is (in my mind) a little much for a 12 year old. BF understands this, but he has a REALLY heard time snapping out of his ways. He likes to give in out of guilt maybe, or maybe to just get her to stop her whining. I'm not sure TBH.


Probably both, because one runs out of options and doesn't know what to do anymore. Myself, I'm naturally stubborn too, so good luck I never cave lol. Then she'll just try something else 😑 lol

If he thinks it's hard, its going to get harder and harder, what's going to happen she reaches 15/16 and continues to not respect his authority?



> His daughter enjoys outdoor activities; this season it's skating and tobogganing, which we also enjoy. She shoots a hockey puck around with her Dad, and we all enjoy movies. Her and I enjoy crafting and building things with our hands, baking as well.


That would be my focus 
Focus on bringing smiles to her face and being the reason behind that smile. But your BF has to seriously do his part too.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Parenting is a really tough job. They’re always checking to see what they can get away with and they’re relentless. If you’re weak (and he apparently is) they’ll walk all over you. You don’t bargain with children over food. She knows she has the upper hand and the older she gets the more it will escalate. He’s too scared to be a real parent because he thinks she’ll cut him out so he’ll keep appeasing her. And that will likely continue as long as he lives. You’ll have to decide what that means for you.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Openminded said:


> Parenting is a really tough job. They’re always checking to see what they can get away with and they’re relentless. If you’re weak (and he apparently is) they’ll walk all over you. You don’t bargain with children over food. She knows she has the upper hand and the older she gets the more it will escalate. *He’s too scared to be a real parent because he thinks she’ll cut him out so he’ll keep appeasing her. And that will likely continue as long as he lives.* You’ll have to decide what that means for you.


Bingo! And yes, I see both good and not-so-good things in our future, but at the same time, that's kind of what is expected no matter the relationship, because it can't be peaches and roses all the time.


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