# How to deal with in-law hazing, abusive teasing



## SayRathernot (Oct 17, 2010)

If you don't know what hazing is, here is the Wikipedia definition: "various ritual and other activities involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a person into a group."

This is the closest term I can find to describe the way my in-laws treat others. Cursing, sexual innuendo, yelling, and stuff like that. It's their idea of expressing affection, according to my spouse, but I find it abusive and embarrassing. They are doing it to our teen child now, too, and my spouse defends this behavior by saying to our child that they're not being serious, only joking, and by saying to me that I am too sensitive and insecure and that it's my problem for not understanding this form of affection.

If this were temporary, I could cope. But we are spending more and more time with them, and my spouse is so attached to them that arguments have gone nowhere.

I am upset by this but am more concerned with our child -- seems to be a bind in that my spouse and I completely disagree on what is right in this case, so what I see as defending my child my spouse sees as depriving them of a certain kind of affection and disrespecting their relatives by taking their affection for abuse and insults. But I think they *are* abusive and insulting, and in a very sophisticated and subtle way, because they also are generous with money and offers of help, so it's easy for my spouse to say I am an oversensitive ingrate.

Can anyone offer advice on how to proceed or try to work this out? 

Thank you.


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## Bluemoon7 (Jan 27, 2010)

It's difficult to know what is really going on without examples of this abusive hazing.

However, it's been my experience that when people are telling you that you are being over-sensitive, just don't understand, ect. that the people saying these things are dysfunctional and fail to see things for what they are. And it makes sense because if your H grew up with it, he's likely to think the behavior is normal. 

If the family is treating your child abusively then it's your responsibility to stop it. Don't let it continue just because your H doesn't get it. Definitely spend less time with them.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

How does your teenager feel about this behavior? If he/she does not like it, then it needs to stop.
Quit spending time with them. Let your h go, and you and teen stay home.


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## SayRathernot (Oct 17, 2010)

Bluemoon7 said:


> It's difficult to know what is really going on without examples of this abusive hazing.
> 
> However, it's been my experience that when people are telling you that you are being over-sensitive, just don't understand, ect. that the people saying these things are dysfunctional and fail to see things for what they are. And it makes sense because if your H grew up with it, he's likely to think the behavior is normal.
> 
> If the family is treating your child abusively then it's your responsibility to stop it. Don't let it continue just because your H doesn't get it. Definitely spend less time with them.


Thank you. Actually, I am the H, my wife is the spouse. Examples of the hazing include loud yelling, lewd jokes (including about my wife, which she seems to enjoy), heavy sarcasm, jokes about the disabled, racial slurs, blaming farts/smells on others, severely hypercritical gossip, you name it. Seems to range from typical horsing around to shockingly crude, probably to get a rise. I am reserved, so part of this may really be my hang-up, combined with their sensing it and wanting to mess with me as the uptight/arrogant figure they can poke fun at. My wife had this odd explanation that I need to appear more comfortable with them (even if I'm not) because otherwise they'll feel that my wife will avoid them or cut ties with them out of her (supposed) allegiance to me. I find it impossible believe that they would change their behavior, so maybe there is some validity to my wife's fear that they have this fear. That is, they know the only plausible change of affairs would be on someone else's end. But that is far different from the actual odds that my wife would avoid them or cut ties with them (which she did when we were younger but would not do again) or that they would in any way adjust their behavior even if they know it bothers me or our child. This time, fairly or unfairly, my wife would pick them and might possibly divorce me.

There is a chance that I could spend less time with them, at the cost of heavy arguing with my wife. Far less chance of having our child spend less time with them, since my wife sides with them and is trying to train our child to accept this as loving behavior. And a pretty good chance that they will simply show up whenever they want, to (as I feel it) monopolize whatever is going on. Since my wife loves them so much, that won't seem like monopolizing to her, so there's a basic disagreement about what is even happening. I can't tell whether our child is comfortable with the behavior or not, but the more likely scenario is my wife taking our child with her to see them, without me. 

Complications: 
1. They seem to be an engulfing type of family. They invite themselves over, show up without my wife discussing with me whether I'd want them there, heavy email/text/phone and expect the same of my wife at any hour, some of which I am (admittedly paranoid) I suspect is discussion of what my problems are. Again, I am an introvert, so I may be partly overreacting unfairly to the bonding involved. And they are generous with money and help, at least from what I've seen so far. In other words, I may be jealous that I don't have that relationship with my wife. 

But even so I think part of my reaction is legitimate in the sense that the way she is with them seems to be the real her, and whatever she has shown me over the years feels like an act now. Also my wife and I recently had some very bad fights where she was essentially threatening divorce because she doesn't feel I take care of enough things for her. There is some truth to that, but she really broke my heart about it, made me feel like what I have put into the marriage amounts to nothing. So I have been stewing badly over all of this, and the last thing I want is more involvement with her family when they might learn or have already learned of those fights given their deep embedding in my wife's life. It would be humiliating to me.

2. I think any strategy of ultimatum or trying to demand less time with them will backfire, at least if I tried to keep her and our child from seeing them often. But I am heavily leaning toward not going myself. I don't want to reach the point where I get sarcastic in return and cause an argument, because another part of the issue is that they engage in this hazing but I suspect would find it less than funny if I did the same back. 

3. Uncertainty -- even if my wife is right that her family sincerely expresses their love this way, for someone like me not used to (or enamored of) this behavior, it becomes hard to tell what is sincere. Thus, anything can be either innocuous or a veiled jab or insult, or even a coded way of making fun of me in front of my face. I've seen them do it about other people, so I don't see any reason why they wouldn't do it to me, especially if my wife has told them about my reactions. I have to date held my tongue about calling them out for what they say, so any such information must come directly from her, or from her validating whatever they tell her they interpret about me (e.g. why does he always look like he's not having fun, etc.). I don't find that kind of quasi-ostracism fun.

4. Loss of intimacy as a result of this conflict. I know my wife accepts her family, behavior and all; I know that I don't; she knows I have expressed discomfort over their behavior; she has settled into a position of saying I am oversensitive and she will not change the amount that she sees them or ask them to apologize for or stop their behavior. I also suspect she carries on a side conversation with them about my oversensitivity, so I am becoming inclined not to confide in or share *anything* with my wife out of a fear (and anger) that somewhere it is being filed away against me. Similarly I fear that she may tell them, or has told them, details of our conflicts in our marriage, so again I reduce intimacy, in the sense of trying to avoid discussion or conflicts over things I feel strongly about -- to avoid providing possible ammunition against me.

This is very unsettling to me. I rarely have such a visceral reaction against people. And it seems immature and combative of me to think in terms of ammunition and betrayal without knowing the whole story. But I feel that to the extent that I spend more time with this family, the more I will be slapped with a negative image, and I can't expect any support from my wife on that. And if for some reason our child does feel uncomfortable with the behavior, I'm on my own against all of them to try to take a stand.

Hope this helps clarify -- my thought on this are a work in progress, but I'm trying to work it out, including trying to imagine a charitable way of seeing my wife's side. It's hard to do so, but I am trying. 

Thanks for any additional feedback.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife's family communicates this way. It's completely different from the way I am accustomed, but it's their way and it works for them. Her parents are still together (unlike mine). Her parents are immediately responsive if someone in the family needs help (unlike mine). They tease each other constantly. At first it bugged me, then I realized when they tease me, they are just treating me like family. Kids are quite smart and resilient. No matter what you do, your kids will have a relationship with their grandparents, anyway, so you can forget protecting the kids from their grandparents. I'd just teach my kids #1. We don't tease. and #2. Grandma and Grandpa love you. Your kids will figure out the rest without assistance.


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## Bluemoon7 (Jan 27, 2010)

Sorry for assuming your gender wrong.

FWIW, I definitely understand where you are coming from. My in-laws are offensive in similar ways. They discuss disgusting topics like all the places the dog sh!t, farting, sex, and they are incredibly racist. I say practically nothing when I'm around them because I don't want to discuss these inappropriate things. Mostly I want to tell them how ignorant and ridiculous their racism is. But I haven't. Yet. (We don't have kids yet, but when we do, they will be informed that their racism won't be tolerated around the kids. I have ZERO tolerance for intolerance and hate.) 

Like you, I realize that my expectations of how people/family should act influences how I view his family. It's good to be aware of this. It probably won't make you like them anymore than you do, but you'll be more rational about why you think that way and things they say might not seem as irritating. 

Would your wife go to counseling? The thing that bothers me about your wife's position is that when you get married, you become a family. That family is supposed to be your priority. It takes precedence over your extended family including parents. But your wife is basically saying she doesn't care about what you think, her family will come first. That's not right, and the bible, most therapists and people would agree with me on this. Perhaps a counselor telling her she needs to consider your wants and needs as well as you hers, would help?

It would be nice if you two could discuss this in a way that makes you both feel good about the situation. It would be nice if she could acknowledge that some of the things her family says are offensive and not act like it's your problem for being bothered. Maybe there is something nice you could say about her family so she isn't so defensive? IDK, maybe there isn't.

I don't think you should act fake so that they make you part of their family "games." And you have every right to avoid them if they make you so uncomfortable. Better to stay away and keep quite then tell them what you really think about them. Could you make plans for most of your free time so you could avoid being around them and have a valid reason?

Also, maybe if you work on the marriage, fulfilling her needs, etc. she might be more receptive to your position on this. I don't know where your marriage is at, but I think every couple should take the five love languages assessment (you can google it or probably find the book at your local library) so they know what to do to make their partner feel loved.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Ask them to babysit and take your wife out to dinner.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Bluemoon7 said:


> .......
> Would your wife go to counseling? The thing that bothers me about your wife's position is that when you get married, you become a family. That family is supposed to be your priority. It takes precedence over your extended family including parents. But your wife is basically saying she doesn't care about what you think, her family will come first. That's not right, and the bible, most therapists and people would agree with me on this. Perhaps a counselor telling her she needs to consider your wants and needs as well as you hers, would help?
> 
> It would be nice if you two could discuss this in a way that makes you both feel good about the situation. It would be nice if she could acknowledge that some of the things her family says are offensive and not act like it's your problem for being bothered.......


:iagree:


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## SayRathernot (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for responding. I don't have time to respond more fully now, but quickly:

*To unbelievable:* I understand where you're coming from and I admire that you were able to grow accustomed to a family style that seemed so abrasive at first. I'm definitely not there yet, but I do need to look at myself and my marriage as well. Intellectually what I see is very similar to what you discovered with your family; it's just that my issues also seem to involve emotional resistance -- I see her taking their side over mine, and they're so lost in each other -- as I said, they talk and text continuously, share beds when spending overnights together, probably tell each other everything, etc. I feel very jealous because I get none of that from my wife. So part of me thinks it's wrong to be jealous but another part of me thinks that my wife shouldn't choose them over me. Of course, I shouldn't ask her to choose me over them, and I haven't with regard to seeing them, but by expressing my discomfort to her and probably looking uncomfortable around her family while not saying why I'm uncomfortable also puts my wife in a tough spot. So somehow we need to work that out.

*To BlueMoon7:* I really think you've given great advice. My wife won't go to counseling. It's weird. After earlier fights she would say we should go to counseling. I was reluctant because I thought we could work it out on our own. Then after our most recent, big fight, I suggested counseling and she dismissed it immediately. Again, this may be just my jealous paranoia, but because she hadn't seen her extended family for years before recently, I think she is so happy to see them, confident with them in her corner, and now I think she doesn't need to get counseled or negotiate on things anymore. I think that is why she is so adamant that it is my problem if I can't get along with them. 

*To Atholk, workin':* Thanks! That would work if my wife and I ever went to dinner alone. My wife doesn't seem like she even wants to touch me anymore, let alone go somewhere alone. In that sense our marriage feels like what the call a silent divorce. Makes me very sad.

Thanks once more. Not sure if anything more needs to be said, but I'd be happy to hear any other advice.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

The only advice I have left is for you to go to a therapist, yourself. You seem to have no one "in your corner". It also sounds like your wife's entire family(and she) is abusing you. It may only be a matter of time, before your child picks up their ways.


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## SayRathernot (Oct 17, 2010)

workin' said:


> The only advice I have left is for you to go to a therapist, yourself. You seem to have no one "in your corner". It also sounds like your wife's entire family(and she) is abusing you. It may only be a matter of time, before your child picks up their ways.


Thanks for the advice. I'll try to press forward.


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

did you encounter this with them *before* you got engaged to her?


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## SayRathernot (Oct 17, 2010)

laelsmom said:


> did you encounter this with them *before* you got engaged to her?


Thanks. I wasn't sure anyone else would respond in this thread. 

Yes, I did encounter them before we got engaged. But then she fell out of touch with them for many years. In between, we got married and had a child. 

Now that she's back in touch with them, I feel the old feelings again, and rightly or not I wonder whether she stopped seeing them because they didn't like me or she had some internal struggle (or maybe even argued with them) over whether she should stay with me. I can't say whether that's accurate or just my paranoia. My wife denies that the original separation with her family had anything to do with me, but of course she would never admit it even if it were true. 

I suppose it's possible I wouldn't have married my wife if this had happened back then, but I don't know. I do know I felt relieved back then not to have to see them anymore, and I feel equally upset at having to see them again now. Part of me feels bad because I tend to want to get along with people, maybe to a fault, and I'm in one of those rare situations where I don't even want to get along with them -- I just dread the days when I have to see them and want the visits over as much as possible. 

Does anyone have any advice about how to get to the source of why I feel this way? I don't mean getting the answers for me -- I mean, what kind of questions should I be asking myself? What signs from my wife and her family should I be looking for to see whether my misgivings are justified or just misplaced? Rarely have I had such a bad gut feeling about something, and it is starting to affect me daily, because my wife is becoming increasingly absorbed in being with them, speaking with them, thinking about them, getting into their drama, and so on. 

As much as I dislike the occasions when I've had to see them, even less do I relish the possibility that she wants us to see them even more often. So far, though, the last few times she's gone to see them alone. My wife says again that they share beds when they sleep and that they even want to know what she's going to the bathroom for (i.e., #1 or #2) and how long she will be. It is really activating my claustrophobic tendencies in ways I never thought anything could. Ironically, it's not even that I think they would want to share this closeness with me. Instead I worry that I will always be the wet-blanket outsider who can't take a joke, is a sissy, etc., and I'll be stuck there having to take it and watch my wife enjoy it. She increasingly seems like a stranger to me when she recounts their behavior with a straight face or even with affection.

Even though my wife has been going to see them alone, and probably prefers it that way as much as I do, there's at least one overnight stay she's planned for all of us to go see them, and I'm not sure what I am going to do having to spend several days with them. 

Again, thanks.


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