# lessons of OM #4 - The proposition



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In one of my other threads @Robert22205 asked a series of questions that basically boiled down to what was my batting average and how did I select the women and how did I take it from Point A to Point Z. 

At first I should have mentioned this in my "Harsh Truths" posts but as I got to thinking back about it, I decided this deserves it's own post as this is a very important piece of info for people to be aware of. 

How things got from A to Z is very difficult to answer with any degree of accuracy because the truth is - I didn't. 

It's bit more complex than this but the bottom line is I did not proposition or make the actual offer to hook up - They did. Every single one of them. 

Now lets back up, I did flirt and banter and make some sophomoric innuendos and such just like a million guys do every day to countless millions of women. 

But when push came to shove THEY were the ones that made the actual proposition. I may have made a flirty comment or a sincere compliment or engaged in some lively, colorful banter......but then they were the ones that asked me if I'd like to go down to the river in the moonlight after work or obtained my phone number from coworkers or came to my house in the middle of the night. 

One played the oldest school trick in the book and asked if I'd help her with an exam paper and then outright asked me if I wanted to be her boytoy. 

And in the case of Mrs Old, that was brokered and set up by a coworker of hers (remember me saying WWs have supporters and co-conspirators?)

The important take away here is I did not select victims. I did not plan and scheme and use PUA tactics (I don't think PUA was even a thing back then) and I did not seduce naïve hapless victims with suave and underhanded charms and pick up lines. 

It is critical that BHs and potential BHs understand that these were sane, sober, self-determined, sexually empowered, adult women making a conscious decision and being active participants. 

They were not victims. They were not duped by a Playa'. They did not fall for sob stories or pick up lines. They were noticed and flirted with by an adult male that they found attractive and that they felt could scratch an itch discretely. 

They did not think I was a BBD than their BH. Only one even asked if I would have her if she dumped her H (I bluntly stated no. She hooked up with me semi-regularly for another 3 years anyway) 

The reason I think this is a critical point to understand is I do not think my situations were very unique or far from the norm. I think this falls into the 90th percentile of cheating wives. I think this is the norm.

I think this is the norm for the vast majority of cases and when WWs cry and beg and say they were taken in by hollow promises of a playa', I think they are just spinning yarns and trying to capitalize on the BH thinking that they are naïve and pure of heart. 

I may have made the initial flirtation, but every single one of these women could have rolled her eyes and walked away like countless millions of women do every day, day in and day out. 

Instead something inside of them made them decide that on that day and that time, they were going to go for it. 

Maybe there was something in the twinkle of my eye. 

Or maybe I was just in the right place at the right time and said the right thing to the right person in the right manner and I sat on that needle in the haystack. 

And it may also be a good bet that if I hadn't said what I said, that the next guy that dropped a flirt or compliment or a nudge-nudge-wink-wink would have had her in his bed instead.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Again, I think there are quite a few women who behave this way and quite a few who don't.

I tend to lean towards concurring with you about the number of (cheating) women who behave just like you described. They are probably in the majority of cheating women.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Great more lessons....LOL


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

these women could have rolled her eyes and walked away like countless millions of women do every day, day in and day out. 

Thank God....I thought it was just me.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

At the end of the day anyone can be the predator. 


My experience is......some folks like to be romanced and be told all the right things....while other folks are ok with a little rip in the panties and some spit in the hand. (BTW I am much better at foreplay then I used to be) 

At the end of the day there are always two sides to the coin.

In the end I think some betrayed need to read these lessons. I think...often....betrayed see them selves as the only one that went through this crazy wayward bull crap and when you post stuff like this …..well... then maybe they don't feel so alone.


Honestly there is a "reality" be it a rodeo clown doing some guys old lady or a 18 yr old kid getting it from some chick's old man. Granted my analogy is extreme but when it comes to some folks just the fact that their spouse is chatting it up on FB is bad enough.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> In one of my other threads @Robert22205 asked a series of questions that basically boiled down to what was my batting average and how did I select the women and how did I take it from Point A to Point Z.
> 
> At first I should have mentioned this in my "Harsh Truths" posts but as I got to thinking back about it, I decided this deserves it's own post as this is a very important piece of info for people to be aware of.
> 
> ...


*Sounds exactly like my RSXW!

Her favorite mantra was to ask any of her paramours exactly how long it would take to go from verbal communication and suggestive bantering to that "no-talking" thing!*


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Again, I think there are quite a few women who behave this way and quite a few who don't.
> 
> I tend to lean towards concurring with you about the number of (cheating) women who behave just like you described. They are probably in the majority of cheating women.


We need to keep in mind these were MY experiences and how things went down for me. 

So it is probably natural for me to view it through my perspective based on my experiences. 

Some other dudes may see it completely differently based on their own experiences. 

My experiences are from the perspective of a normal, time-clock punching Joe Sixpack and starving college student hooking up with Average Janes at work and school. 

A pro athlete in town for the big game or a traveling business executive at the Hyatt or a PUA at the dance club and the lifestyle cheater on ****** ******* are all going to have completely different experiences and perspectives.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

This stuff is not rocket science. It's something I try to impress all the time on here. All you have to do is go and read the cheating boards. There is no wailing and gnashing of teeth like WS do after the fact. They are on a mission. It's tied up into their self, there whole being. They have done this stuff for a long time as much as any other lifestyle. Which is why advice to R after a spouse cries a little and seems contrite is so wholeheartedly foolish. Some people are far to trusting and some are not to be trusted. 

It should be said that the kind of people you have described in your posts are different then the office affair where the marriage has grown routine and someone new that they have good chemistry with comes along. That is a different affair but just as destructive. That is the kind of affair that someone like me who never had or desired a ONS would be susceptible to. Which is why good boundaries are important.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> My experiences are from the perspective of a normal, time-clock punching Joe Sixpack and starving college student hooking up with Average Janes at work and school.


So to you, you feel like an average Joe.

For me, I used to feel like the average Jane but at some point I realized I was more like the average Jezebel. And then I also realized I could not compare my experience to actual average Janes.

I knew lots of other Jezebels so I thought I was average.

Turns out, there are just a whole lot of Jezebels. But also came to find, we were actually not like the average Janes.

No doubt you ****ed a lot of us Jezebels. 

You just didn’t get to experience a life where none of these people participate, so you didn’t know it exists,

I was given a special privilege as a Jezebel. The ability to see and experience a chaste and faithful life with someone I loved completely. Suddenly I saw the other side. The side where even people who know they could **** anyone are choosing to be faithful and loving every minute of it. Not choosing because of God or religion, not choosing because they have no other options. But having many options and choosing fidelity because it was PREFERABLE.

This is apparently something you Oldshirt have not experienced. It is the piece that you are missing in your puzzle.

There are people who are not like you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So. Are there always going to be people out there who will try to seduce your partner? Yes.

Will they always succeed? No.

Do you need to know they exist? Yes.

Do you need to be aware of who your spouse is being influenced by? Yes.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> In one of my other threads @Robert22205 asked a series of questions that basically boiled down to what was my batting average and how did I select the women and how did I take it from Point A to Point Z.
> 
> At first I should have mentioned this in my "Harsh Truths" posts but as I got to thinking back about it, I decided this deserves it's own post as this is a very important piece of info for people to be aware of.
> 
> ...


You were out to get in as many pants as you could.

You had the game, social skills, ability to chat, flirt. Let them know that you were game 
without saying it. So the offers came.

Many men never got hook ups because they did not have the social skills. When they
would approach a woman they would get the eew! look get lost I would never be interested
in a man like you. Even when their intentions were honorable and they wanted her
for a relationship and not a ONS.

To be a swinger the husband knew what was going on is one thing.
To be an OM, stealing from the BH, was not honorable.
I do not see your remorse for being an OM.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

@oldshirt As much as it is tried to be denied here, I think your experiences are right on point with nature.
Woman select. 
We want to make the world a different place, it's nature, the truth is my Ex was also the one to make the hook up propositions.
I know there are exceptions to every rule, but the 99% follow their natural instincts. 

Thank you.....it's a tough read.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Is there something you can do to change the odds in your favor so they are more focused on you? yes

Can you change you before they cheat? Yes

Can you change your spouses morals and virtue? no.

Sexual childhood abuse, I believe, is the biggest factor in promiscuity and leads to more WS than we know.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

sokillme said:


> This stuff is not rocket science. It's something I try to impress all the time on here. All you have to do is go and read the cheating boards. There is no wailing and gnashing of teeth like WS do after the fact. They are on a mission. It's tied up into their self, there whole being. They have done this stuff for a long time as much as any other lifestyle. Which is why advice to R after a spouse cries a little and seems contrite is so wholeheartedly foolish. Some people are far to trusting and some are not to be trusted.
> 
> It should be said that the kind of people you have described in your posts are different then the office affair where the marriage has grown routine and someone new that they have good chemistry with comes along. That is a different affair but just as destructive. That is the kind of affair that someone like me who never had or desired a ONS would be susceptible to. Which is why good boundaries are important.


We haven't always agreed on things, but I agree with you here- especially paragraph 2. This describes my W, and touches on the B word- boundaries. 

I think many of us- myself included- take offense to the notion that we are susceptible to a ONS or the like. I'm not- not in the least. The situation you described in paragraph 2, however, many of us are susceptible due to arrogance, lack of boundaries, etc. 

You can be as in love as you can possibly be, you can be uber religious, you can be a "good person", but without consistent and deliberate boundaries, you're susceptible. It's arrogant to think any other way.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Music_Man said:


> We haven't always agreed on things, but I agree with you here- especially paragraph 2. This describes my W, and touches on the B word- boundaries.
> 
> I think many of us- myself included- take offense to the notion that we are susceptible to a ONS or the like. I'm not- not in the least. The situation you described in paragraph 2, however, many of us are susceptible due to arrogance, lack of boundaries, etc.
> 
> You can be as in love as you can possibly be, you can be uber religious, you can be a "good person", but without consistent and deliberate boundaries, you're susceptible. It's arrogant to think any other way.


True but at the end of the day it still comes down to a personal choice. No one has an affair who doesn't know what they are doing.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Music_Man said:
> 
> 
> > We haven't always agreed on things, but I agree with you here- especially paragraph 2. This describes my W, and touches on the B word- boundaries.
> ...


People that have affairs all know exactly what they are doing. I don't ever buy that BS that they were played or seduced, that only happens to people that let it happen.

The only situation I can think of where it would be possible if some beautiful woman just started grinding or rubbing on you. Not sure what I'd do in that unlikely situation. But thats why I don't go to places and put myself in situations where that might happen.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

sokillme said:


> True but at the end of the day it still comes down to a personal choice. No one has an affair who doesn't know what they are doing.


Correct. Lines can be blurred due to poor boundaries or a lack of boundaries altogether, but no one forced my W to respond in kind once the texting clearly crossed lines. 

There's no denying that she knew, and anyone else who's ever been in an affair like this knew as well. 

My point, and I think yours as well, is that anyone CAN be vulnerable to the type of affair mentioned in your second paragraph. To think otherwise is to be arrogant.


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