# My wife is impossible, why can't I leave?



## Redoak

We have been married for 5 years after a relatively short courtship. 60 days after we were married she had to be hospitalized for 2 weeks with a mixed stated mania. She was diagnosed with Bipolar I. My instincts were to leave, but I went looking for answers. I came to this forum a lot then (2007-08) and searched my soul and decided that even with the illness, I was going to try my best to support her. The next several years were a little blurred with different doctors/meds & such. Finally we got her stable enough to take care of herself and even teach on the college level and I felt like we were on our way to a life. But... as time goes on, things are just getting worse. Not in terms of mania/depression but just severe dysfunction. I can find no common ground and ultimately, I am accused of not doing anything for her at all which hurts because, let me tell you, I try as hard as I can. The harder I try to do things or help her the more viscous she gets. Its mind boggling. Whatever I do, it's wrong. She manufactures this reality that I don't support her, but I can honestly say that I would be embarrassed to admit some of the things I have agreed to in order to be supportive. My feelings and emotions have been trampled and there is nothing I can count on in this marriage. I feel so alone. I do have a very supportive loving family, but now she is attacking that on all fronts and it is shaking me to my core. I have lost all love/compassion I feel for her and find it hard to even look at her. Ok, with all that said...

Why do I find it so hard to leave? She pushes me so far beyond my limits and I say to myself, "Thats it, I cant take this anymore". But just as soon as I think about it, I feel almost crippled like I cant leave. I make excuses like Christmas is coming, we have a vacation planned, I just cant leave now, etc. Then I say to myself that "if she pushes me again though, Im out!" Well she does, but the next time is the same. She pushes and I shut down. I know that it is fear, but why do I care? I mean, she treats me horribly, why do I care what happens to her after I leave?

I apologize for the length of this post, but just another couple details. We have no kids, are in our mid 30's and both educated.

I would sincerely appreciate any advice/wisdom.


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## t10eml

I feel for you. I'm a little in the same situation (maybe not as severe). Unfortunately, I can't give you any advice as I'm searching for answers myself.


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## unbelievable

Mine has bipolar, too. Common sense says "leave", duty says "stay" and I guess duty wins. If that's your plan, too, you don't have the luxury of emotions, feelings, needs, wants, or frustrations. Forget "fair". That's a place to ride the merry-go-round and eat cotton candy. Like me, you probably don't leave because she has a serious illness and you realize she'd be in an institution, swinging from a rope, or another homeless mental case if you did. Leaving someone because they are sick just sounds dishonorable to me, so it is what it is.


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## LiamN

No matter what you do - you are wrong in this woman's eyes. It is severely dysfunctional. The point is, if whatever you do is wrong, why not start to consider yourself. Don't throw your life away, which is what you are doing. Your wife is going to live her life, but you need to move on and live yours. I have been in this emotional prison myself and eventually you realize that you are sacrificing yourself to a situation that will never improve anyway. You are here to be happy and to give to those who want what you have to offer. Have courage and reach out for it.


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## JohnDoe2012

Do you have children with her? If you don't, all you have to do is walk out the door. It's that easy.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Why do I find it so hard to leave?...I know that it is fear, but why do I care? I mean, she treats me horribly, why do I care what happens to her after I leave?


Part of the problem is that you are a nice guy and you PERCEIVE yourself as 'a nice guy'. In your book, nice guys hang in there, suck it up, fight the good fight, sacrifice for the good of their family, etc. It's the code in which you were raised.

That being said, you need to remember that these rules for being a nice guy, a dependable guy, a good guy, a mature guy were developed to deal with normal everyday life. YOU'RE NOT LIVING A NORMAL LIFE! You have given it YOUR ALL for 5 L-O-N-G years; and there is no improvement in sight. There will be NO IMPROVEMENT in sight. Your wife has a long-term illness which is what it is.

Now the only question is whether YOU should leave this unhappy, unfulfilling, soul-crushing, toxic relationship (guess which way I'm leaning!).


> Originally posted by unbelievable:
> Leaving someone because they are sick just sounds dishonorable to me, so it is what it is.


Unbelievable is CERTAINLY entitled to his opinion. If HE couldn't live with himself for leaving his sick wife, then THAT is how he feels and THAT is how he should deal with it. But YOU are NOT unbelievable! If you feel that you have given it your all, if you feel that YOU are deserving of a peaceful, happy, loving, stable, mature, fulfilling, growth-filled relationship (which you obviously THOUGHT you were getting when you married your wife), then THE ONLY WAY you're going to get what you deserve in this VERY SHORT TIME ON EARTH is by leaving with dignity (for both of you) and moving on.

Does that make you a terrible person? NO! A slacker? NO! A quitter? NO! Just a man, a person like the rest of us who is trying to do the best FOR HIMSELF as well as others! Look, you can't be a happy healthy person for your spouse, your parents, your children, your siblings, your friends UNLESS YOU'RE FIRST A HAPPY HEALTHY PERSON. If you're not THAT, then you have NOTHING left to give others. And THAT is the crux of being here...to help others.

Redoak, get yourself into some counseling (it doesn't have to be for years...a couple of months will help you TREMENDOUSLY) to deal with your desire to leave. A counselor can help you deal with the end of your marriage, find a course of action that best helps you decide on WHAT you want for your future and HOW best to achieve that future.

You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. If OTHERS choose to stay in such relationships, that is THEIR business. If you decide to leave yours, that is YOUR business. No-one else is living YOUR life but you; no one else understands it as thoroughly as YOU do.

I, personally, don't believe you get any EXTRA STARS in your crown in heaven for being a martyr. If you do, it's not MY kind of place to hang around for eternity then!


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## Redoak

I appreciate everyone's comments. Oddly enough they do represent well the emotions I go through almost daily. On one hand I look at it like _unbelievable_. There is a lot of truth there. There are certain luxuries that just cant happen in this marriage. And yes, I do feel in my heart that if I leave, she will not be able to take care of herself and either be institutionalized or commit suicide. There is no support from her family.

On the other hand, _Slowlygettingwiser_ hits the other side of my emotions. It is not going to get any better and there are no points for allowing yourself to be beaten. I am a good person and want to enjoy this world with someone. I have been to counseling and read many books, not only on her illness, but codependency (which i definitely am) and toxic relationships. And I will continue, but it just seems to bring me back to the same place which is:

I know that my life will get better when I leave my wife and I also know hers will get worse.

I keep getting stuck in the reason trap, trying to figure this out, but there is no figuring, it just sucks. I think what I feel most days is shock that this is happening. I even have a tendency to talk myself out of it while I am at work just to come home and be slapped in the face with reality. I also have fear that I will cave. If I leave and she cant take care of herself, will I be able to handle that? I mean, if I come back then, it would be disastrous and I would be trapped forever. But how am I going to make it, watching the person I made vows to, spin down to their own destruction? I know that it is not my fault, but i cant get away from that.


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## JohnDoe2012

You could leave the marriage, but still make yourself available to help her. Unlike many of us on this forum who are in unhappy marriages, you really can have it both ways.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I respectfully disagree with JohnDoe, as a co-dependent personality, 'helping her out' would just get you SUCKED BACK IN again.



> I know that my life will get better when I leave my wife and I also know hers will get worse.


The ONLY way to make a decision on this is BY YOURSELF. Anything WE SAY will NOT really help you make the FINAL DECISION, it will just give you additional ammo for each side of the argument.

*I think it boils down to this: *

WHY do YOU THINK you are on this Earth? 
What do you think the best use of your life is?
Is there merit (in whatever form you want to call it: 'grace' 'salvation' 'ameliorating sins' 'being a more caring human' whatever) in YOU PERSONALLY living a cr*ppier life so that your wife can live a less cr*ppy life? [I am NOT being sarcastic here.]
Is your calling to be an advocate for your wife? For yourself? For others?

UNFORTUNATELY, only YOU can answer these questions. I do NOT envy you! It will take some real soul-searching.

Please keep coming to TAM and asking questions, venting, seeking advice, giving advice (YOU may have just the answer/suggestion that someone else is seeking...your situation give you a unique perspective). You may have answers in a matter of hours, you may not have them for months. But we'll be here to give you encouragement WHATEVER route you choose.

You are NOT alone!


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## Uptown

Redoak said:


> She was diagnosed with Bipolar I. ... as time goes on, things are just getting worse. Not in terms of mania/depression but just severe dysfunction. ...The harder I try to do things or help her the more vicious she gets. Its mind boggling. Whatever I do, it's wrong.


Redoak, HALF of the people suffering from bipolar-1 also have full blown BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. This finding was not obtained in a small hospital study. Rather, it was obtained in an ambitious 4-year study (pub. 2008) in which nearly 35,000 American adults were examined in face-to-face interviews. It was funded by NIMH (the National Institute of Mental Health). See Table 2 at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.

I mention this finding because, due to the strong association of these two disorders, bipolar-1 is often unfairly blamed for very vindictive and abusive behavior -- like the "vicious" actions you mention -- that is one of the hallmarks of BPD.

Significantly, if your W does have strong BPD traits -- and there is a 50% chance she does -- she is capable of exercising control over her abusive behavior if she chooses to do so. There are many excellent treatment programs all over the nation. Although BPD cannot be cured, the therapy programs teach the BPDer clients how to manage their emotions, how to do self soothing, and how to intellectually challenge their intense feelings. 

Hence, if your W has BPD and refuses to seek treatment, you are harming her by protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad behavior. Your enabling behavior, in that case, is allowing her to continue behaving like a spoiled four year old -- and GET AWAY WITH IT. It therefore is important that you establish strong personal boundaries and enforce them, which almost certainly would mean that she will find you intolerable to live with.


> I have been to counseling and read many books, not only on her illness, but codependency (which i definitely am) and toxic relationships.


Like you, I am an excessive caregiver (i.e., "codependent"). For guys like us, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is ANATHEMA. It goes against our family values, our religion, our morals -- indeed, against every fiber of our being. Yet, if your W has strong traits of BPD and refuses to seek therapy, walking away is exactly what you should do. Otherwise, you will destroy her only opportunity to have an incentive to seek therapy.


> She was diagnosed with Bipolar I.


That does NOT mean she does not also have BPD. It is well known, both inside and outside the psychiatric community, that therapists are LOATH to tell a client -- much less her H -- the name of her disorder when she has BPD. Instead, the therapist will list only the co-occurring Axis-1 disorders like bipolar and PTSD. 

There are many reasons why therapists routinely withhold this information from high functioning BPDers to protect those clients. One reason is that treatment will not be covered by insurance if the diagnosis is BPD but will be covered if it is an Axis-1 disorder like bipolar. (For the other reasons, see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.)

I therefore join Slowly in recommending that you see a counselor. Specifically, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two BY YOURSELF -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Remember, your W's therapist is NOT YOUR FRIEND. Relying on her therapist for advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on your W's attorney during the divorce. It is important you see a professional who is ethically bound to protect your interests, not hers.

I also suggest that, while you are waiting for an appointment, you read my overview of BPD traits to see if most sound very familiar. Of course, you will not be able to diagnose your W. Only professionals can do that. But spotting the red flags (i.e., strong traits) is not difficult when you've been living with someone for five years. My post is in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Redoak.


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## Uptown

unbelievable said:


> Leaving someone because they are sick just sounds dishonorable to me.


Unbelievable, having bipolar disorder or BPD does not give one a free pass to be abusive and vicious to one's spouse. Moreover, the folks suffering from these disorders will not have a strong incentive to learn how to manage their issues unless they are allowed to suffer the logical consequences of their own bad choices. It therefore is a big mistake to think of these disorders as comparable to having cancer or a missing leg -- things over which one has no control.


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## EleGirl

One of the main reasons you cannot leave is that it will take enormous energy to leave. Your energy is consumed in making it from day to day with your wife. (BTDT)

From what you have written you really need to get out of this relationship. You are disappearing. Instead some other co-dependent, mentally exhausted creature is replacing you in your own body. It will come to the point where you will be as mentally ill as she. It is not unusual for the spouse of a person like your wife to develop serious, life-long depression and other mental illnesses.

So now how do you get out when all of your energy is going to get by day to day.

There are two ways. 

One is to call a friend/relative now and tell them you are on your way and ask that they let you use their spare room or sleep on their couch for a while. This is cold turkey and very effective.

The other is to make an exit plan. Then instead of needing to muster up all of the energy to walk out in one fel swoop, you can work one step every day or two. It does not take a lot of energy to work each individual step. And at the end of those steps you are free.

How do you feel she will react when if/when you tell her you are leaving?
So what does an exit plan look like?

1) Make appointment with an attorney to see what your rights are in a divorce and to get them to start the paperwork. Do not file until the day you leave.

2) Get all of your and her financial paperwork, passwords, etc. Make copies of them and move those copies to a safe place: your office, a friend/family's house, etc. I used a small 5x5 storage space for this as I did not want to get family involved in this stage.

3) Move as many valuables of yours as possible out of the house to your 'safe place'. Again I used a storage place.

4) Start using a different address and move as of your mail to that address as possible.. you can rent a po box or use the address of friends/family.

5) Open checking/savings accounts in your own name only (if you don't already have this. Get any direct deposits like pay moved to your new account.

6) Move things like clothing to where ever you will be moving to.


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## ferndog

Redoak said:


> We have been married for 5 years after a relatively short courtship. 60 days after we were married she had to be hospitalized for 2 weeks with a mixed stated mania. She was diagnosed with Bipolar I. My instincts were to leave, but I went looking for answers. I came to this forum a lot then (2007-08) and searched my soul and decided that even with the illness, I was going to try my best to support her. The next several years were a little blurred with different doctors/meds & such. Finally we got her stable enough to take care of herself and even teach on the college level and I felt like we were on our way to a life. But... as time goes on, things are just getting worse. Not in terms of mania/depression but just severe dysfunction. I can find no common ground and ultimately, I am accused of not doing anything for her at all which hurts because, let me tell you, I try as hard as I can. The harder I try to do things or help her the more viscous she gets. Its mind boggling. Whatever I do, it's wrong. She manufactures this reality that I don't support her, but I can honestly say that I would be embarrassed to admit some of the things I have agreed to in order to be supportive. My feelings and emotions have been trampled and there is nothing I can count on in this marriage. I feel so alone. I do have a very supportive loving family, but now she is attacking that on all fronts and it is shaking me to my core. I have lost all love/compassion I feel for her and find it hard to even look at her. Ok, with all that said...
> 
> Why do I find it so hard to leave? She pushes me so far beyond my limits and I say to myself, "Thats it, I cant take this anymore". But just as soon as I think about it, I feel almost crippled like I cant leave. I make excuses like Christmas is coming, we have a vacation planned, I just cant leave now, etc. Then I say to myself that "if she pushes me again though, Im out!" Well she does, but the next time is the same. She pushes and I shut down. I know that it is fear, but why do I care? I mean, she treats me horribly, why do I care what happens to her after I leave?
> 
> I apologize for the length of this post, but just another couple details. We have no kids, are in our mid 30's and both educated.
> 
> I would sincerely appreciate any advice/wisdom.


You know the answers. You don't need advice. You just need to keep on talking/posting and your decision will come. A marriage is beautiful when based on respect, love, honesty, faithfulness, loyalty, and friendship.
It's clear some of those key components are missing. So identify them and fix them or leave. Life is about decisions so it's really upto both of you to fix the issues. It up to you to leave once you can't. 
Good luck and stay strong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Uptown said:


> Unbelievable, having bipolar disorder or BPD does not give one a free pass to be abusive and vicious to one's spouse. Moreover, the folks suffering from these disorders will not have a strong incentive to learn how to manage their issues unless they are allowed to suffer the logical consequences of their own bad choices. It therefore is a big mistake to think of these disorders as comparable to having cancer or a missing leg -- things over which one has no control.


I do agree with you. When mine gets over-the-top and becomes abusive and blames it on the illness or meds, I tell her perhaps it's time to load her up and carry her to the mental hospital. It's a little cold but it's effective. I just tell her that my limit is "civility" and when she can no longer control her behavior or when she is no longer responsible for her behavior, a hospital is waiting and as a caring husband, I will see to it that she gets the support she needs. So far, that always snaps her out of it.


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## JohnDoe2012

I don't mean to take over this thread for my issue, but could I ask everyone their opinion on something? My wide has the opposite issue, but it is very much a mental issue: she is extremely apathetic. She doesn't care about anything. Just goes through the routines of life. Her idea of a conversation is to try to say whatever the person wants to hear. She has no interest in sex, even though she will if I ask her. She does not pursue or maintain friendships; and of the several friends she has had. she has mostly lost because she never engages, never calls. Worst part she shows no remorse or even awareness over her lost friendships. I have been pleading and begging for years for her to address this, as far back as 1999. And, she forgets everything, even things like a planned getaway weekend... forgets because she is so disinterested. Her apathy has destroyed our marriage. Is this a reason for divorce?


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## Ricki123

Hi, the subject of your post caught my eye.. I actually just joined this site hoping to get advice about my own miserable situation. My subject line would be same as yours, just substitute the word husband for wife. I feel for you, this is a difficult, sad situation. You have to keep reminding yourself that she is sick, and a sick person has to get treatment. Many mentally ill people refuse to admit/accept they are ill, and blame everyone around them for their troubles. Is she in therapy/cooperating with meds/treatment? You would probably need your own therapist, plus marriage counseling. I think it's doable, as long as she is willing to stay in treatment. But, do YOU really want this?? You were on these forums 4 years ago..it's now 4 years later and you are 4 years older. I'm not sure how sick she really is, because in my opinion, many of us that have married abusive people (me, for example) could be married to someone who really has an undiagnosed mental illness. So, like another poster said, do we deserve verbal, emotional, even physical abuse if our spouse
Is diagnosed with an illness? You are only in your mid 30's, you have a long life ahead of you, that could be cut short due to a stress related illness of some sort.. Maybe you could
Slowly start building a life for yourself, socialize a bit more, join some things, just stay away. And when you have to be with her, try not to fight back, react, show her she is getting to you, etc. I know it's so hard. You should start going to a therapist also. But she can't use you to take out her anger, frustrations, anxiety, mood swings, distorted thinking, etc. When she gets crazy tell her you will call an ambulance and have her taken to the hospital, because she needs professional help and you are not a psychiatrist. I hope you eventually have the strength to take care of yourself and your own needs. But, I know firsthand how hard this is.. My father stayed with my mentally ill mother for 40 years. He died from a heart attack when he was 67. She also did not get sick until I was about 5 years old. He chose to stay and I grew up watching my mother either lay in bed all day or scream. She refused to get help and said we were all the crazy ones. My father worked two jobs to support us and was basically never home. So, he did decide to stay, but the only way he couldcope was by having a separate life. He was also worried about me and my brother too, and what would happen to us. You don't mention kids so I assume you don't have any. I truly believe that's the only reason why he stayed. I grew up with no self esteem and married someone who treats me terribly. This is what I get to deal with now. Sorry this reply is so long, I think my point is is that these types of relationships just cause so much chaos and dysfunction..and requires so much effort, I'm a product of it and my heart still aches for my dad. He deserved more..and I don't blame my mother, but she also refused to get help.


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## EleGirl

Ricki123 said:


> Hi, the subject of your post caught my eye.. I actually just joined this site hoping to get advice about my own miserable situation. My subject line would be same as yours, just substitute the word husband for wife. I feel for you, this is a difficult, sad situation. You have to keep reminding yourself that she is sick, and a sick person has to get treatment. Many mentally ill people refuse to admit/accept they are ill, and blame everyone around them for their troubles. Is she in therapy/cooperating with meds/treatment? You would probably need your own therapist, plus marriage counseling. I think it's doable, as long as she is willing to stay in treatment. But, do YOU really want this?? You were on these forums 4 years ago..it's now 4 years later and you are 4 years older. I'm not sure how sick she really is, because in my opinion, many of us that have married abusive people (me, for example) could be married to someone who really has an undiagnosed mental illness. So, like another poster said, do we deserve verbal, emotional, even physical abuse if our spouse
> Is diagnosed with an illness? You are only in your mid 30's, you have a long life ahead of you, that could be cut short due to a stress related illness of some sort.. Maybe you could
> Slowly start building a life for yourself, socialize a bit more, join some things, just stay away. And when you have to be with her, try not to fight back, react, show her she is getting to you, etc. I know it's so hard. You should start going to a therapist also. But she can't use you to take out her anger, frustrations, anxiety, mood swings, distorted thinking, etc. When she gets crazy tell her you will call an ambulance and have her taken to the hospital, because she needs professional help and you are not a psychiatrist. I hope you eventually have the strength to take care of yourself and your own needs. But, I know firsthand how hard this is.. My father stayed with my mentally ill mother for 40 years. He died from a heart attack when he was 67. She also did not get sick until I was about 5 years old. He chose to stay and I grew up watching my mother either lay in bed all day or scream. She refused to get help and said we were all the crazy ones. My father worked two jobs to support us and was basically never home. So, he did decide to stay, but the only way he couldcope was by having a separate life. He was also worried about me and my brother too, and what would happen to us. You don't mention kids so I assume you don't have any. I truly believe that's the only reason why he stayed. I grew up with no self esteem and married someone who treats me terribly. This is what I get to deal with now. Sorry this reply is so long, I think my point is is that these types of relationships just cause so much chaos and dysfunction..and requires so much effort, I'm a product of it and my heart still aches for my dad. He deserved more..and I don't blame my mother, but she also refused to get help.


If you want help you really do need to start your own thread. Just use your above post for your very own thread.


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## t10eml

Ricki123, so would you recommend the OP leave his wife?


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## Ricki123

To Elegirl: not sure if you read my post. I talked about my own life experience here to give Redoak some insight into what I experienced, not because I'm asking for help. I'm sorry you took it that way, but I really only care what redoak thinks, since he's the one looking for advice/wisdom here. 

To t10eml: redoak didn't ask what we recommend or not, just asked for advice/wisdom, which I already gave.


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## Ricki123

By the way, he did ask, "why can't i leave"? I already know the answer to his question and I believe he does too. He is afraid to, he is worried what will happen to her, he has guilt, he took his vows seriously. My father was the same way (oops, talking about myself again). And, she is sick. What makes this so hard is that he probably knows/remembers the side of her that he fell in love with, but now this illness has taken over. I don't think he deserves to be miserable, but I do understand how he feels. I will say again, I hope he will get the strength one day to take care of himself and his own needs, since he also deserves a partner. I think a therapist would help, at least to be able to vent.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

JohnDoe:

I think your wife may be severely, clinically depressed.

You should go to the 'General Relationship Discussion' section (they get the most responses usually), start a NEW THREAD (just above the Sticky Notes & everybody else's thread, there's a DARK ROSE colored strip...2 lines up from that on the left is a BLUE BUTTON "New Thread". Click the button, start a new thead and see what develops!

Good luck, I'll be looking for your post there, JohnDoe.


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## jtec040812

I wrote a post on here that helped me to realize my husband has extreme manic tendencies. They are quite severe and our relationship is not normal and very toxic. I wanted to ask you something though. You say your wife is educated. This leads me to believe that she is somewhat stable. I think she might be a little manipulative of you and even play you with her so called illness. 

Do you think she knows right from wrong? I think that you should take a huge inventory of your actions and hers and compare the two. If you can see that maybe some of her accusations are true, I would try to work on them. But if she is up in the night, making things up, unstable, maybe it is time for her to see someone that can help her. It sounds like you might be like me and at a loss as to know how to help her and you can't. I can empathize with you completely.


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## Redoak

While I was away from TOM, the past 5 days have been an eye opener, but not exactly in the terms I was looking for. I learned some things about myself this week that shook me up a bit and I think it is going to take some time to sort out. In so many words, I really need to find out whether my feelings for her are truly love or extreme codependence. The short story is that I left for an evening and went to my parents while she was at work. I left no note and shut off my phone. I made it to about 5 the next day before I contacted her and by that evening, I was back home. For my part, the feelings I felt were horrible, but what made matters worse is how my family reacted. She tried calling one of my sisters, then stopped by my parents during the day while I wasnt there. They did not treat her very well (from their own accounts & hers). All she was wanting to know was where I was and why had I left and they had their defensive guards up as if she showed up with a ball bat. Things were said by my family that shouldnt have been said, or even known. They acted way out of their character and I couldnt believe it, but then something occured to me that hadnt before.

It goes back to when she was hospitalized after our marriage. For those of you who know, helping someone recover from a severe manic episode is beyond words (not to even speak of what it is like for the person suffering for the episode). During that time I developed a coping mechanism that I didnt realize its severity until this week. Since I did not want to do or say anything that would push her back into an episode, I stopped talking, for the most part, to her about what I felt were hard emotional subjects. I had meetings with family & friends and asked that they not talk about certain things with her. For myself, when things in the relationship got hard, I would swallow it for the time being, then go and visit my sister lets say, and unload. Then I would go home calm and things would be ok for awhile. That probably would have been ok, for a short period, my family is strong, and it helped me. However, over the past 5 years I have taken it to a severe level and am almost constantly venting about the relationship (to mostly family and one set of close friends). What has this done? I have been living the pain/hurt of this relationship without communicating it to the person that needs to hear it, while at the same time alienating family & friends from my wife. I would continue to get upset about some of her issues, but never really expressed to her how strongly I feel about them. But in my mind, I felt like I had (because I had competely unloaded about them in other company). While right now, I feel like I have done some damage to our relationship and feel horrible about it, I am ony human and am also happy that I see it.

My wife & I are starting counseling this next week and we have talked about the above. I also want to say that I realize my codependent self may just be finding another reason to blame myself, but right now I feel I need to come clean on these issues with her whether I feel like she can handle it or not. Maybe my fears of her losing it when she hears how I feel will lead to healing, I dont know, but I hope at the minimum, if I leave agian, she will at least understand why.

Thanks for the responses, I want to respond to a few:



EleGirl said:


> One of the main reasons you cannot leave is that it will take enormous energy to leave. Your energy is consumed in making it from day to day with your wife.
> 
> So now how do you get out when all of your energy is going to get by day to day.


I do feel exhausted like, if I did leave, I wouldnt be able to function. After the way I felt the other night, I am not sure whether leaving cold turkey is something I could do, but at the minimum, I think I need to be smart about preparing an exit plan in the event we cant work it out. For her safety and mine.



unbelievable said:


> I do agree with you. When mine gets over-the-top and becomes abusive and blames it on the illness or meds, I tell her perhaps it's time to load her up and carry her to the mental hospital. It's a little cold but it's effective.


Your method does sound cold, but I am slowly starting to realize that if it works, it may be best. I have never said anything like that to her and the thought of it makes me cringe. However, my avoidance of the uncomfortable is clearly not working.



Ricki123 said:


> Many mentally ill people refuse to admit/accept they are ill, and blame everyone around them for their troubles. Is she in therapy/cooperating with meds/treatment? You would probably need your own therapist, plus marriage counseling. I think it's doable, as long as she is willing to stay in treatment. But, do YOU really want this??


There is very much blame spread around to others, but she does admit the illness and has not denied or refused her medication since her hospitalization. I should also note that she does not have any substance abuse issues, thank God. Treatment is a little tough because of our wonderful healthcare issues. We fall between a literal crack in the system where I CANNOT get healthcare for her that covers mental health issues. So ultimately, her pdoc sees her once a month for a med check. By the time we pay for meds out of pocket, we dont have enough money to pay for therapy. Health insurance it denying us the exact treatment she needs. We are going to marriage counseling soon and after some of what I posted earlier, I realize now that I need some help as well. I thought I was super tough and able to handle it, but it has made mince-meat of me. As far as what I want, in a bubble, I want her & I to be happy together. I love her. I do have joy in my life and I dont feel that there are any life goals, that I want, that are limited by the situation, if she is willing. However, we dont live in the bubble and I need to find out how far she is willing to go with me.



jtec040812 said:


> I wrote a post on here that helped me to realize my husband has extreme manic tendencies. They are quite severe and our relationship is not normal and very toxic. I wanted to ask you something though. You say your wife is educated. This leads me to believe that she is somewhat stable. I think she might be a little manipulative of you and even play you with her so called illness.


My response to this is I'm not sure. I also want to bring in something _uptown_ said earlier about Borderline Personality Disorder. My personal laymans diagnosis of her is that she is BPD as well as Bipolar I. I have read quite a bit about Bipolar and while the mood swings make sense and the decompensation while she is cycling, there are mannerisms/tendencies that simply are not explained by Bipolar. This led me to BPD, although I have never said it. And like uptown said, the pdoc hasnt said it either. I do need to read more about BPD for my own benefit because ther are times when she can be so viscious or absolutey nasty. An example of this is that in the past year. I have lost 2 close loved ones. Within an hour of finding out of their passing, she has instigated arguements about other issues. It was staggering and very hard to deal with, needless to say. The dysfunction ranges from just plain hurtful things like that, to like you are dealing with the most spoiled 4 year old on coke with an aggression issue. This is not present all the time, but it rears its ugly head, and as some of you know, it is when you least expect it.


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## Uptown

Redoak, thanks for giving us an update. I'm glad to hear you had new insights into your own behavior.


Redoak said:


> I do need to read more about BPD for my own benefit because ther are times when she can be so viscious or absolutey nasty.


*As an initial matter,* Redoak, I recommend that you NOT tell your W that you suspect she has strong BPD traits. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

*Second,* I suggest you read _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. I also suggest you read my overview of BPD traits at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.

*Third,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. And, at the resources page, they provide a dozen professionally-written articles targeted to the abused partners of BPDers.

*Fourth,* I suggest you read Shari Schreiber's article at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?. You likely are an excessive caregiver like me. If so, you may benefit from reading Schreiber's explanation of how we got to be this way in our childhoods. Our problem, she explains, is that our desire to be needed (for what we can do or fix) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are).

*Fifth,* I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. If your W has strong BPD traits, MC likely will be a waste of time until she has had several years of treatment to learn how to manage her issues. Until then, learning better communication skills likely will not make a dent in her dysfunctional behavior.

*Finally*, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


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## kisses80

I Beleive that when we get married we are promising to be with that person for better or for worse how many people really think about that before getting married FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH it clearly says in sickness that means mental problems disabilities eg the lot you said those words and promised her that I think you need to spend some time thinking about the commitment you made to her and what it really means. And if you decide to not honour that commitment you need to leave sooner rather than later so it doesnt hurt her more. But one thing I suggest you do before you leave is read men are from mars woman are from venus book. You may be suprised to learn that some of the things you think she is saying bad about you she isnt even saying. Woman talk very different to men sometimes all we need is to cry and talk about everything that were upset about and to just have our man love us and listen and for him to not take offence or try to fix us. If he can do that he may find she appears less upset with him over time and more loving and supportive. Alot of woman that are admitted to pychiatric wards or diagnosed with so called mental illnesses have a partner that doesnt truly understand her moods and the man normally takes it very personally when it was never inttended by the woman that way. Please read the book men are from mars woman are from venus. And maybe share some things with her from the book. Also no matter what happens please forgive her the bible tells us to forgive 7x70 times a day even if the person keeps reoffending unforgiveness is really a poison that will slowly kill you by making your heart cold and bitter it will eat you alive slowly.; Unforgiveness is what says I deserve better I deserve more I deserve to be angry I deserve JUstice eg and it causes alot of problems


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## turnera

Uptown knows the most about this diagnosis. Listen to her.

As for you, there is responsibility, and there is martyrdom. If there's a sense that you staying can get her help, stay. If she is so far gone that she can't fix herself, set up her help with the proper authorities (who can help her better than you can), and move on so she can get the help she needs.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


This is SO TRUE, Redoak! Venting to your family has helped YOU FEEL BETTER, but has severely strained relations with your wife. You SHOULD FEEL FREE to come to TAM anytime (we're open 24/7  ) to vent. It will STILL make YOU FEEL BETTER and will not impact anyone elses relationship with your wife. If you want to vent just write (either in the title or the first line) something like "JUST HAVE TO VENT..." or "Don't need advice, just VENTING" or something similar. You can have your say, people will offer ENCOURAGEMENT, but usually not offer any advice and you won't feel the need to engage/respond to any comments if you don't want to.

Use US as your listeners whenever you need to keep the kettle from boiling over. We'd love to help!


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## Redoak

Uptown said:


> *Finally*, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


Uptown, I thank you very much for the info. I read the post you mentioned and I dont know whether I am happy or sad, but ultimately your observations brought more sense to the matter than I thought possible. The similarities you mentioned are staggering. Even to the point of spending thousands on fabric and making nothing at all. My wife has several of these hobbies that produce almost nothing while constantly buying. I have tried to reason this out to no avail. Anyways, I got the _Walking on Eggshells_ book and also signed up at BPD Family. I cant say I feel strongly where this will take me, but I feel knowledge is power and pray I can find some answers. 

If you will permit a funny story. My wife & I compost and she has composting worms (that I have to feed), but I like the idea. She likes to crush up eggshells to give to them, but never does it. So... On my counter is a bowl of eggshells that have accumulated for at least six months. She will not let me do it, but will not do it herself either, creating what I assume is this frustrating BPD gridlock I experience. So, not only am I walking on eggshells, but I have to look at them every day!



turnera said:


> As for you, there is responsibility, and there is martyrdom. If there's a sense that you staying can get her help, stay. If she is so far gone that she can't fix herself, set up her help with the proper authorities (who can help her better than you can), and move on so she can get the help she needs.


Sadly, I cant say for sure where I am between martyrdom and responsibility. My heart tells me that she is not too far gone and that it is workable, but my stomach tells me a different story when she hits me with a new curve or constantly reminds me I have done nothing for her. 



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> This is SO TRUE, Redoak! Venting to your family has helped YOU FEEL BETTER, but has severely strained relations with your wife. You SHOULD FEEL FREE to come to TAM anytime (we're open 24/7  ) to vent. It will STILL make YOU FEEL BETTER and will not impact anyone elses relationship with your wife.


Thank you so much and I will take this offer up in the future. I have been dealing with (or not dealing) this situation by venting and worrying and it has not helped because I was not doing it in the right place. I need to speak with a counselor now that I have identified (with the help of Uptown) that I am very much a caregiver. I am starting to understand, but work needs to be done. 

As far as my family, Christmas is coming and I am nervous about possible conflicts/arguments and their consequences, but I am putting it up to God. Not to say that I am going to sit idly by while confrontations happen, but at least I am not going to try to quarterback the situation. It is as it is. For my part, I have apologized. I know my heart is in the right place.

A work in progress...


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## turnera

Throw the damn eggshells away.

And stop giving her money to blow. Cut the cards up.


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