# Advice on boyfriend situation



## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

I’ve never posted here before but I hope someone can give me advice and that you are not offended by my posting because I am not married or even engaged.

I’m a 25 year old who has been dating an almost 24 year old guy for almost 3 years. We met in college but have been long distance for about two years. This is thousands of miles away long distance so definitely emphasis on the long. Things in our relationship are good and we love each other and are happy together. He is attentive and tries to do whatever he can do to make me happy. I do the same for him. I'm still head over heels for him. We visit regularly and I’m hoping to move closer to his location next year when I hopefully get into grad school. This makes sense because many of the schools I want to attend independent of him are relatively close to where he is. He cannot move because he is tied up in a 7 year PhD program.

Last night I asked him “Were do you see this relationship going?” and he said “I don’t know."

This is what he has been saying from the beginning and it is frustrating to no end because I feel like he should know. I will admit that in the past he has said, "We'll make this work no matter where you end up for grad school because we have a strong relationship and making this work is worth it." However, he has never explicitly said where he wants to see this relationship go (I see it heading toward marriage) or what the "endgame" is in his mind. That's what I mean by he has said "I don't know" in the past.

I know he loves me and we talk about the future and when we as individuals get married in vague terms–not about the two of us specifically but just in general.

Last time I asked him about “where is this relationship going” around the 2 year mark he told me he wanted to wait until after the 3 year mark to talk about it. Before that before we started long distance he also said he didn’t know where it was going but we were younger and hadn't been dating that long at that point so that was more acceptable than it is now.

I don’t know what I should do at this point. I don’t want to leave him but I also don’t want to waste too much time if he's never going to see himself with me for the long haul. Leaving probably isn’t an option right now because I just love him so darn much.

But does this mean he is not serious about the relationship or fully committed to me? I think he's committed, but maybe not serious about the relationship. What is a gal to do?!?

Thanks so much for reading and please be gentle with me. As I said I love this guy very, very much.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How did you meet him?
How often do you see him in person?

From my experience with long distance relationships, there is no way to really know who a person is during a long distance relationship. A person only let's you see what they want you to see.

At this point it's just a fantasy.

The fact that he will not say anything about the future means that in reality he does not see a future.

I highly encourage you to find a relationship with a man you can actually see and touch in real life.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> How did you meet him?
> How often do you see him in person?


We met in college and spent a year together in person (seeing each other every day, practically moved in together a couple of months after meeting) before I moved to work at the only job I was offered coming out of college. So we have spent time together in person and I would say this is the reason we have done the distance. I don't think either of us would have tried it if we had not had significant experience in person first.

One of us visits once a month, for as long as is possible. On vacations (few and far between in his grad program, they don't really have any), he might come here for a week but I usually can only take 3-4 day weekends to see him.

I would move to his area if I could, as it is where we went to college and I have significant connections there as far as friends are concerned so I'd be okay moving there even if we ended up breaking up, but I have not been able to find a job there in my field.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> I’ve never posted here before but I hope someone can give me advice and that you are not offended by my posting because I am not married or even engaged.
> 
> I’m a 25 year old who has been dating an almost 24 year old guy for almost 3 years. We met in college but have been long distance for about two years. This is thousands of miles away long distance so definitely emphasis on the long. Things in our relationship are good and we love each other and are happy together. He is attentive and tries to do whatever he can do to make me happy. I do the same for him. I'm still head over heels for him. We visit regularly and I’m hoping to move closer to his location next year when I hopefully get into grad school. This makes sense because many of the schools I want to attend independent of him are relatively close to where he is. He cannot move because he is tied up in a 7 year PhD program.
> 
> ...


It sounds like he's being honest with you. You are both still very young, and truthfully, anything could happen, regardless of what he said. Also, the distance between you for the last few years doesn't help the situation, I'm sorry.

I would carry on until he finishes school. If you can't wait that long, tell him and move on from him. Where the relationship goes; it's your decision too.

I think he's giving you the right answer. You asking him point blank where he see's this going? I would be thinking that you are having second thoughts, or wanting full commitment now, when it's totally not practical to commit for life. He's still in school.

You are both very young. Enjoy the relationship and life in general. Don't plan your whole life around the guy, concentrate on your own future too. 

IMO, I think you are both as committed as you can be under these circumstances. Any further inquiries into that is like trying to predict the future.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> Last night I asked him “Were do you see this relationship going?” and he said “I don’t know."
> 
> *This is what he has been saying from the beginning *and it is frustrating to no end because I feel like he should know. That's what I mean by he has said "I don't know" in the past.
> 
> ...


Your last statement makes no sense. He is either committed and serious about you or he isn't.

Due to the fact that he has told you "from the beginning" that he "doesn't know" - my guess is he isn't very committed/serious. I hate to sound like my mom, but, well, you have known for a long time now how he feels in that he "doesn't know." So you have played a part in this--hoping he would change or say something different. People are who they are though. He was honest from the beginning. He wasn't 100% from the beginning.

It sounds like you want marriage (am I right?) Is that what you mean w hen you say "committed?" It could be he doesn't want to get married or just not get married to you.

Some people don't want to get married and still have long lasting relationships. Others want a marriage. 

This is a fundamental difference.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

Thanks for the advice tulsy!



tulsy said:


> I think he's giving you the right answer. You asking him point blank where he see's this going? I would be thinking that you are having second thoughts, or wanting full commitment now, when it's totally not practical to commit for life. He's still in school.


I may have made it sound that way. In all honesty, I don't want a full commitment from him at this point. I understand that school and the distance make that impossible. I just wanted to know that some thought of a future with me had crossed his mind and was a possibility for us, instead of something that he doesn't know if he'd consider if that makes sense.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Maybe he is avoiding the "love you forever and marriage talk" because he doesn't want to diminish the moment when he finally asks you to marry him. 

Maybe phrase things more generically, instead of your relationship specific; "How old would you like to be when you get married" Those generic questions will give you an idea of his future plans, maybe you and he have the same plans but maybe you don't.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

I don't think men generally respond well to questions as blunt as "where do you see this relationship going?". You are rather putting him on the spot and maybe he thinks you are asking him to commit to a marriage at some point.

Maybe you should make it clear to him that when you ask that question you are not asking for a marriage commitment; you are simply seeking reassurance that he has not altogether discounted the possibility of being with you for the long term.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Your last statement makes no sense. He is either committed and serious about you or he isn't.


He is certainly committed to me in the sense that I do not have to worry about him straying or being dishonest with me. And he seems to be into this relationship for some sort of long haul, even if it's not *the* long haul. That's what I meant.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that he's serious but not committed?



Jellybeans said:


> Due to the fact that he has told you "from the beginning" that he "doesn't know" - my guess is he isn't very committed/serious. I hate to sound like my mom, but, well, you have known for a long time now how he feels in that he "doesn't know." So you have played a part in this--hoping he would change or say something different. People are who they are though. He was honest from the beginning. He wasn't 100% from the beginning.


By "from the beginning" I mean that I asked him what he thought our relationship would amount to that maybe 6 months into the relationship (admittedly this was too early for any serious commitment but I thought I'd ask) and he said "I don't know." He has made comments in the past that allude to us doing things like moving in together in the future so it's not as if all of the things he says to me make it seem as if he is not serious. He has also said, as I think I mentioned in my post, that he wants to make the relationship work even if we have to do distance while I'm in grad school. We talk about things like having kids together too. That sounds like a serious intention to me, but then I don't know why he's unsure of what his endgame would be. Additionally I know talk can be cheap, but he is the most honest person I have ever met (he is honest even it has hurt my feelings in the past because he doesn't want to ever lie to me).

We're still relatively young, and we were even younger when he started this relationship, so I wasn't going to be worried when he as a 21 year old said "I don't know" 6 months into our relationship. I was thinking that with time things would become more clear in his head as to what could be a possible future for us, but I'm not sure whether that's happening. And I'm not entirely sure whether that's because he is not a planner/doesn't see himself getting married until closer to 30 (which I'd be fine with)/isn't completely mature yet or whether it's because he doesn't see himself getting married to me.



Jellybeans said:


> It sounds like you want marriage (am I right?) Is that what you mean w hen you say "committed?" It could be he doesn't want to get married or just not get married to you.
> 
> Some people don't want to get married and still have long lasting relationships. Others want a marriage.
> 
> This is a fundamental difference.


I would like marriage eventually. I don't need it in the near future.

By committed I meant that I'd like to be in a relationship in which the person could see it heading toward marriage eventually. If he doesn't see it potentially heading that way, it's a waste of time for me considering that my eventual goal is marriage. When he says I don't know about our relationship, it doesn't tell me whether he doesn't know about me or whether he isn't sure because he's not fully mature or whether he's not sure about marriage.

I do think he wants marriage because he has indicated that in past conversations, but from what we have talked about in the past it seems that he doesn't see himself married until he is done with school/closer to 30, which again is fine with me as long as this relationship is one that could potentially lead to marriage. And over time that potential should progress, obviously.

Part of the reason I got so worried is because people have started asking me where this relationship is going. Most of our friends and family (including his) expect this to lead somewhere like marriage , and I figured he'd have a better idea at this point.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

Cooper said:


> Maybe he is avoiding the "love you forever and marriage talk" because he doesn't want to diminish the moment when he finally asks you to marry him.
> 
> Maybe phrase things more generically, instead of your relationship specific; "How old would you like to be when you get married" Those generic questions will give you an idea of his future plans, maybe you and he have the same plans but maybe you don't.


Hahaha, maybe, but probably not. I'll try to have more generic conversations with him, I think that would probably help. We've had those in the past, but haven't had any recently. There's just so much good stuff to talk about it hasn't come up very recently. 



ClimbingTheWalls said:


> I don't think men generally respond well to questions as blunt as "where do you see this relationship going?". You are rather putting him on the spot and maybe he thinks you are asking him to commit to a marriage at some point.
> 
> Maybe you should make it clear to him that when you ask that question you are not asking for a marriage commitment; you are simply seeking reassurance that he has not altogether discounted the possibility of being with you for the long term.


Yeah, I'm really blunt and I can see how that's maybe not entirely fair to him. I'll try to be more clear with him next time we talk, that's a really good point. This sounds stupid but I hadn't realized until now that I was being so vague with how I was communicating with him.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

My guess is that he still feels immature and is emotionally less ready than you to commit for the long term. They say men's brains only reach full adulthood at 25. If he does not know that, he may sense it instinctively and feel he is not ready to get married yet, so prefers not to think about it.

I hope things work out for you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You are both still very young sweetie, you have your whole lives ahead of you. I'm sure you both love each other very much, but love on it's own just isn't enough.

After 3 years it's natural to want to know where things are going. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking him, it just seems he's unable to give you the answers you need right now because he simply doesn't know.

I'd take a step back if I were you, simply tell him that his uncertainty about where the relationship is going has in turn made you feel uncertain to take things any further at this stage.

I don't think you should move to where he is until you have this resolved.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Ask him some serious questions. Listen. If not happy with his response, ask him if the two of you are exclusive. If not, tell him you'll be dating around then and go dark on him for a few weeks. If he does not respond, you'll have your answer. If he shows up on your doorstep, you'll also have your answer.


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## martita (Jun 1, 2014)

ive been in his shoes...to me that means, if it happens happens, but he might not make major changes in his life for you, and he probably does not want you to do it for him either, it all comes down to commitment. Someone who is sure, will say "well move here!" or ill move there!
You guys should sit down and talk about it seriously.

Im the same age as you guys, so that is my perspective.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Q tip said:


> Ask him some serious questions. Listen. If not happy with his response, ask him if the two of you are exclusive. If not, tell him you'll be dating around then and go dark on him for a few weeks. If he does not respond, you'll have your answer. If he shows up on your doorstep, you'll also have your answer.



That's a good way to get dumped in a hurry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That's a good way to get dumped in a hurry.


No loss.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> No loss.



In regards to the boyfriend I'd have to agree with you. In regards to her own integrity I'm not so sure.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> In regards to the boyfriend I'd have to agree with you. In regards to her own integrity I'm not so sure.


How that? Why do you question her integrity?


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

martita said:


> ive been in his shoes...to me that means, if it happens happens, but he might not make major changes in his life for you, and he probably does not want you to do it for him either, it all comes down to commitment. Someone who is sure, will say "well move here!" or ill move there!
> You guys should sit down and talk about it seriously.
> 
> Im the same age as you guys, so that is my perspective.


Thanks, I appreciate the response. He has actually told me to move where he is and that has been our expectation for a while. The hold up for me is finding a job in his area. A couple of months ago he expressed a lot of frustration that I hadn't been able to find a job to be with him on a more permanent basis, but I'm not sure what I can do other than try to network more and keep applying to jobs.

I think what you say about "if it happens it happens" can make sense, but in that case does it mean that he thinks I'm not the person for him and just someone to maybe settle on then? Sorry if that's a wrong interpretation.



Q tip said:


> Ask him some serious questions. Listen. If not happy with his response, ask him if the two of you are exclusive. If not, tell him you'll be dating around then and go dark on him for a few weeks. If he does not respond, you'll have your answer. If he shows up on your doorstep, you'll also have your answer.


We are definitely exclusive! There's no doubt about that. Wouldn't it be cruel to pull something like that on him? I don't think I'd react well if someone did that to me.



frusdil said:


> You are both still very young sweetie, you have your whole lives ahead of you. I'm sure you both love each other very much, but love on it's own just isn't enough.
> 
> After 3 years it's natural to want to know where things are going. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking him, it just seems he's unable to give you the answers you need right now because he simply doesn't know.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really appreciate your response and will keep it in mind. I haven't really given second thoughts to the moving aspect because the place where he is located would be a nice place for me to be independent of him, in terms of having lots of my own friends there and opportunities for growth in my field (if only I could break into the job market there!  ). 

And I am going to apply for grad schools so I might end up at one where he is or a couple of hours away Fall 2015 anyway because most of the schools I'd love to attend are in that region anyway (and that would be the case even if he didn't exist).


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

jld said:


> No loss.





WorkingOnMe said:


> In regards to the boyfriend I'd have to agree with you. In regards to her own integrity I'm not so sure.


So you guys think I should just dump him and move on? Interesting.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> So you guys think I should just dump him and move on? Interesting.


I would not want to be with a man that was not crazy about me. I've been married 20 years, and I can tell you, life is hard. You want a solid, committed partner who adores you. I just don't see that kind of energy coming out of this guy.

At your age, I would not settle, and I don't think I would even really waste time. And try to find a guy a few years older. Men take longer to mature than women, and I just think it's better to be with a guy a little bit older. Obviously, that is just my opinion.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

jld said:


> I would not want to be with a man that was not crazy about me. I've been married 20 years, and I can tell you, life is hard. You want a solid, committed partner who adores you. I just don't see that kind of energy coming out of this guy.
> 
> At your age, I would not settle, and I don't think I would even really waste time. And try to find a guy a few years older. Men take longer to mature than women, and I just think it's better to be with a guy a little bit older. Obviously, that is just my opinion.


That's a good point about the crazy about me part. When people meet us or hang out with us in person, I get told that they can tell that he adores me. But maybe that sort of in-person energy is not enough when someone isn't sure about a plan for the future.

It's very likely that no one will believe me when I say this, since I am quite young, inexperienced, and probably naive as compared to many of the people on this website, but I've dated whole host of people and he is the most amazing man I have ever met. I cannot imagine I'll meet someone else like him. I'm his first serious girlfriend, so I don't know whether that changes things for him, but I know that finding a man like him is hard. Damn, I sound like a lovesick puppy.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> That's a good point about the crazy about me part. When people meet us or hang out with us in person, I get told that they can tell that he adores me. But maybe that sort of in-person energy is not enough when someone isn't sure about a plan for the future.
> 
> It's very likely that no one will believe me when I say this, since I am quite young, inexperienced, and probably naive as compared to many of the people on this website, but I've dated whole host of people and he is the most amazing man I have ever met. I cannot imagine I'll meet someone else like him. I'm his first serious girlfriend, so I don't know whether that changes things for him, but I know that finding a man like him is hard. Damn, I sound like a lovesick puppy.


You're certainly welcome to stay with him. You're there in real life; we are just on an Internet board.

If you are satisfied, it really doesn't matter what we think.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

if it is true love, on both sides, it can work out. Love will find a way. But given the logistics, I personally would not make any draconian demands. For instance, I think you both should be allowed to date others. That way the is no temptation to "cheat" on each other, and hide it. 

Obviously, if you two were at the same campus (or at least same city), things would go much smoother. students usually do not have much money for plane flights to keep together.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I think you just need to RELAX. You are SO YOUNG! (Mature for your age, yes, but young still.) 

As women especially, we have this fairy tale "marriage" outlook on life. A piece of paper indicating a legal agreement does not force commitment. A commitment is what makes a commitment. If this guy is committed to you and you him, you guys are fine.

I think you are handling the situation very well (looking for jobs to bring you closer, yet not allowing to get yourself "stuck" without networks.) He loves you, you love him. You are young and there is PLENTY of time for marriage and babies later in life. 

Quit worrying and just BE.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So he was 21 when you started dating and is now 24. 

Methinks you guys are young and have not experienced a lot of life.

I think you want marriage and he is on the fence. My experience has been that men usually know if they are going to marry the woman they are with. Sure, some may be slower but just in what I've seen, people tend to know. 

I also think it's bad to try to "convince" someone to marry you. That is just not good. At all.

My 2 cents.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Sounds like he's not that into you. Do you want to be someone's Plan B+ for the rest of your life?

You're young, don't settle.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

He may wish to finish school before proposing marriage. Marrying you may be the unstated plan. However, he is not being decisive in consideration of your heart. A girl wants to know.

Do you have a passionate sex life?
Do you have phone sex? How does it make you feel?

Does his father have more education than his mother? Is their marriage stable? Siblings?

What are doing now? Can you move in with him and look for a job locally while applying to grad school?

Do you want to have a baby? Never too young to enjoy a child. There are great pleasures in being a younger parent.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> How that? Why do you question her integrity?



If she tells him she'll be dating around and then goes dark in an attempt to manipulate him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> If she tells him she'll be dating around and then goes dark in an attempt to manipulate him.


Oh. I didn't recall her saying that.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Wow lots of black and white here.

You were together for a year, then long distance for two. I know you see each other a lot and try to make time for each other. Three years sounds like a lot with with 2 years being barely part time, of course it is hard to know.

Stop pushing so hard! What's the rush? You aren't going to age out of kids for another 15 years. I think you should keep the status quo. He might meet someone, so might you. If so, life will take it's course. Continue to try for jobs in his area since you like that area anyway and plan to attend college there, regardless. Apply to the colleges you want and keep on with YOUR plan.

If your plan and his intersect, you move there and your relationship deepens, you'll have your answer soon enough. You may find you have both grown and suddenly spending so much time together causes friction. I think these formative years result in nearly as much developmental change as the first 5 years of life. 

Breathe. Slow down. Life won't pass you by. But pressuring him into saying "I plan to marry you one day" isn't going to make it true.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> Oh. I didn't recall her saying that.



I was never talking about her. It was q tips suggestion I quoted.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I was never talking about her. It was q tips suggestion I quoted.


Oh, okay. Thanks for explaining.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It should be difficult for you to see the future as well. What would make the job market change where he is so you could move there? Has he been interested in moving to you when school is done? Could he get a job there?

What other possible locations would be mutually acceptable?

If career trumps all, you may never be able to live together.


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## devotion (Oct 8, 2012)

My situation was not exactly the same but there are some parallels. I'm just going to share my story and you can take it as you may. 

I met my first girlfriend just when I turned 18 and starting college, she was already 24. We hit it off just fine and I was with her for over three years and about to graduate college. So do the math and now I'm 21 and she's 27. 

She basically gives me an ultimatum that either get married at this point or break up. Now, I do love the girl and want to spend the rest of my life with her so I accept the 'terms'. 

Fourteen years down the road we get divorced partially because she feels we never had a true love story. Its true. She went to counseling and one time I came and she asked, like always, why I married her. And I told her the truth. And I was faithful and stayed with her throughout the whole marriage. But there never was that 'spark'. 

I am the type of guy that would have stayed with her the rest of my life because once I make a commitment I stick with it. And while it's still not black and white (I mean, I can't say there wasn't a lot of good times in the nearly 18 years I knew my ex) I'd have to say it was a mistake to get married. If my choices were to get married or to break up, I should have broken up. 

Really, she should have been just fine with the status quo till I wanted to get married. And I've told my new girlfriend that if we get married it will be because I want to, not because she told me we have to. Sounds like a simple thing to say but it was tough reality for me to accept back then. 

Lastly, I will give you the alternate story of a good friend of mine who broke up with his first girlfriend because he thought he wasn't ready for a steady relationship (not marriage, he just wanted to play the field). Since then he's had NO relationships because he believes he left the most beautiful girl in the world and nothing can ever hold a candle to her (that girl is now married to someone else). Suffice to say, he's nuts, but it shows that if I had broken up with my ex, would I feel like him now? Maybe.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

There's some good advice here already.

I'll add in my two cents in regard to long distance.

My ex H and I were a long distance relationship (me in the US, him in the UK) for 5 years before we were living together.

We had visits maybe twice a year - 3x a year if we had the money. After the 5 years of long distance, we lived together in the same country for 6 months before we got married, which was our way of determining whether we could put up living with one another after having had a LDR for such a long period of time. Luckily for us both, we had even stronger feelings when together than when apart.

The difference in my case was that my ex really wanted us to be together, was always talking about the thought of marriage but with real meaning and feeling behind it, with clear goals as to what our future together should look like. He was a planner. He had a clear vision of what he wanted and even though our marriage did not last, I know that he absolutely wanted to be with me, he loved me, and my feelings at the time were mutual. There was no ambiguity.

Since my divorce, I've had 3 serious relationships and in each one I noted a distinct lack of assurance that the guy saw a future with me. They were each wishy-washy in their own way. In that respect I knew it just wasn't going to work. There's nothing wrong with the way they felt and I respected them individually for the good things they brought to my life, but it was a clear indication to me that they just weren't very sure (yet) of what they wanted.

So, just a cautionary bit of advice, from what I've experienced, when a man knows he just knows, and acts accordingly. Otherwise he's not sure and you're probably taking a gamble.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

*Update:* Okay guys so I have a big update. We didn't get to talk much last night, so we talked again this morning. He looped back onto this conversation and expressed his frustration that I had been unable to move because he wants me to be with him permanently and not intermittently. I totally understand this because I am similarly frustrated. We also discussed my potentially relocating and getting some sort of temporary job while looking for a better position. This is something I am certainly willing to consider in a couple of weeks, because my ultimate goal is to get into professional school this year (and for that, the quality of my job isn't a factor they're going to consider). I have to finish my entrance exam in a few weeks, but after that I could make that move. 

On a more related note to my question, I ended up asking him point-blank, "Do you see a future for us together?" And he said, "I think so." I know someone on here said it wasn't the best way to lead into this question, but it made sense based on what we had been talking about and he certainly gave me an answer. 



murphy5 said:


> if it is true love, on both sides, it can work out. Love will find a way. But given the logistics, I personally would not make any draconian demands. For instance, I think you both should be allowed to date others. That way the is no temptation to "cheat" on each other, and hide it.
> 
> Obviously, if you two were at the same campus (or at least same city), things would go much smoother. students usually do not have much money for plane flights to keep together.


Thanks, I completely agree with you about making draconian demands, however I don't think that being faithful is one of the things that my boyfriend and I consider a draconian demand. If he did have issues, I would hope he would tell me at some point, but he hasn't brought it up. I think I brought it up as an abstract idea once and he said no. As for me, at this point, I don't want to date other people.

Oh, also, both of our respective parents help us with plane tickets to see one another since it is expensive, as you stated. Even trying to get the cheapest tickets every other month adds up, but thankfully our families are understanding and this has not been an issue.



GA HEART said:


> I think you just need to RELAX. You are SO YOUNG! (Mature for your age, yes, but young still.)
> 
> As women especially, we have this fairy tale "marriage" outlook on life. A piece of paper indicating a legal agreement does not force commitment. A commitment is what makes a commitment. If this guy is committed to you and you him, you guys are fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post! This makes me feel a lot better. I'm completely not hurrying to get to marriage...if he wanted that right now I'd tell him to hold his horses. I'm definitely all about dating for multiple years and figuring out if we're still a great fit.



LongWalk said:


> He may wish to finish school before proposing marriage. *Marrying you may be the unstated plan.* However, he is not being decisive in consideration of your heart. A girl wants to know.


I actually think this may very well have been the case all along. He leaves a lot to be assumed sometimes. And then if I bring it up, he'll say something like "well that was the plan all along." Lol, this morning I mentioned that this was the first time he actually verbalized that he wanted a future with me (other than saying things drunkenly like "I want to be with you for as long as possible") and he seemed surprised to hear me say that, like he would if he just thought it was implied. 



LongWalk said:


> Do you have a passionate sex life?
> Do you have phone sex? How does it make you feel?


Wow, personal. I'd say we have a great sex life when we're together in person. He has somewhat of a lower drive than I do, but it works because he rarely turns me down and I rarely turn him down (in the rare case that I'm not in the mood lol).

We do not have phone sex, because it makes him feel awkward and he prefers in-person interaction. We've tried it in the past, and it felt fine to me.

I think in general my boyfriend has somewhat of a low drive, I know that he has told me he only masturbates 1x a week and I don't think he'd lie to me about something like that. That sounds pretty low to me.



LongWalk said:


> Does his father have more education than his mother? Is their marriage stable? Siblings?


Yes, but not too much more. His parents are both college educated, and his father has a master's. His mom was a stay at home mom, though. Their marriage seems stable and happy with no PDA (I think they're private people and that has rubbed off on their son lol). Siblings are not yet married.

My parents are both professionals and have always worked outside the home. They're on the same level, but my father has made sacrifices to advance my mother's career and has always put her first in that way. They're both intensely passionate people so their marriage is less stable than my boyfriend's parents' but it is still stable and as far as they have told me and I have seen, this is what makes them happy and works for them. Siblings, again, not yet married.



LongWalk said:


> What are doing now? Can you move in with him and look for a job locally while applying to grad school?


Working, studying (have to take a big exam in a few weeks), getting my application in order, looking for a job, and volunteering. It looks like it might be best for me to move locally and keep looking, but that's going to have to wait until after the exam.



LongWalk said:


> Do you want to have a baby? Never too young to enjoy a child. There are great pleasures in being a younger parent.


I want to have kids after 30. At that point, I'll be done with my education and will actually have a real job. I doubt it's going to happen before that, even with my mother pestering me.



COguy said:


> Sounds like he's not that into you. Do you want to be someone's Plan B+ for the rest of your life?
> 
> You're young, don't settle.


Do you think that's the case, even with this update?



WorkingOnMe said:


> If she tells him she'll be dating around and then goes dark in an attempt to manipulate him.





WorkingOnMe said:


> I was never talking about her. It was q tips suggestion I quoted.





jld said:


> Oh, okay. Thanks for explaining.


Yeah, this is just not going to happen.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Good update! 

For what it's worth, I am in a wonderful relationship with and live with a wonderful man and we are in a similar boat. We are older (35 and 41) but the same "dunno" feeling is in the atmosphere. We both have ex spouces and are plain scared to "get married" again at this point. And I am absolutely ok with that. 

But sometimes the IDEA creeps up on me (when either his mama or mine starts in on us) and I start to wonder why he hasn't asked me yet. I wonder if maybe he's just "enoying the free milk" and all that garbage.

But then I take a step back and think about it. If he were to ask me to marry him, would I run down to the courthouse and do it TODAY? The answer is always a big NO. I love him and he loves me, and we are VERY committed to each other. But I am just not ready. And neither is he. We may never be. But we "feel" married. (He HAS said that, but we do live together.) 

My "aunt" and uncle have been living together for 20+ years. They still aren't married legally, but he even told me flat out the other day that she is his wife. And I've never seen her as anything but. 

MARRIAGE isn't the ultimate goal. LOVING is. Take your time and give him his. It will work out the way it is supposed to. Promise.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Beyoncé - Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It) - YouTube

Millionaire Matchmaker says that no ring after 2 years - Walk

It's been 3 and his stance hasn't changed.

There is an old adage about why buy the milk (get married) when you're getting it for free (unmarried but providing marital perks)

The Chipettes - Single Ladies [Put A Ring On It] - YouTube


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> It should be difficult for you to see the future as well. What would make the job market change where he is so you could move there? Has he been interested in moving to you when school is done? Could he get a job there?
> 
> What other possible locations would be mutually acceptable?
> 
> If career trumps all, you may never be able to live together.


I'm hoping to matriculate into a professional school program in Fall of 2015. Most of my top choices in schools (that I have a reasonable shot at) are much closer to where he is located. My career is completely going to change at that point, and I don't foresee having an issue finding a job wherever I may end up moving after that.

The issue currently is that I don't have as many connections as other people who are getting preferences for the lower level positions. I graduated with a biology major and plan to go into the healthcare field, and being a research assistant is somewhat hard to come by.



devotion said:


> My situation was not exactly the same but there are some parallels. I'm just going to share my story and you can take it as you may.
> 
> I met my first girlfriend just when I turned 18 and starting college, she was already 24. We hit it off just fine and I was with her for over three years and about to graduate college. So do the math and now I'm 21 and she's 27.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for sharing your story. That definitely puts things into perspective. My intention has never, at any point, been to give an ultimatum. I'm strictly opposed to those, since I think that a couple can both do better than something that was forced on one party. I intend to keep that in mind and am certainly willing to wait a while until we're both ready to take the next step, if/when that happens. 

I can definitely see how a 4 year age difference (in which the woman is older) can make things very frustrating, and I commend you for being an upstanding person and willing to go by the commitment you had made, even if it didn't work out. I hope you're in a better place in your current situation. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story with me.



Satya said:


> There's some good advice here already.
> 
> I'll add in my two cents in regard to long distance.
> 
> ...


Thank you for giving me your words of advice based on your experience. I'll definitely be on the lookout for that. At this point, I think that part of my situation involves being a planner who is just not with a planner. This is true even in other aspects of our lives, but this is the one point at which we haven't yet matched up well. Though now that he expressed that he thinks he sees a future together, I feel like I should no longer hold on to his "I don't know"s and keep up with the current information he has relayed.

My impression, of my boyfriend, is that he is not wishy washy but rather that he takes his commitments very seriously and because of this can delay decisions until the last minute even if he is fairly certain about something. This is what I have seen in multiple aspects of his life, and I feel as if it's part of his personality.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

GA HEART said:


> For what it's worth, I am in a wonderful relationship with and live with a wonderful man and we are in a similar boat. We are older (35 and 41) but the same "dunno" feeling is in the atmosphere. We both have ex spouces and are plain scared to "get married" again at this point. And I am absolutely ok with that.


That is a huge difference between you and OP. You and yur husband are older and have both been married already and divorced. So your situation isn't like hers. 

I get that you question whether he ever would ask you, but the OP is in a situation where I wonder if he even wants to get married at all. He is still realllllllllllllly young. 

He may not be into marriage; or he may not be into it with her.

"I don't know" to me is pretty telling. Especially after 3 years of being together. If he were anti-marriage, wouldn't he have already said "I don't want to get married at all ever?" Or something along those lines. Constantly telling your partner "I don't know" about where you see the relationship going is odd, IMO. Well, at the very least, conducive to a man who wants to actually marry you.

Seems like OP wants to rush this. And the thing is, you can't rush something major like that. If he only marries for pressure that is bad news. In that case, he's not doing it because he really "wants" to--but because he feels he has to or like he's been given some kind of ultimatum. Not the best foundation to start marriage.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

The issue you are dealing with is insecurity, or that's my interpretation of your post and update. You may be young but your are certainly at an age where it's time to think about your future, especially if you want to have a family. I don't say that to indicate that your time is limited...lol...I say that because you are mature enough to know where you want to go (end-game if you will).

I have always viewed dating as the process by which where you figure out if this person is someone you are going to marry. After three years and still no commitment, I would begin to feel unsure about the relationship as well. If dating this person is simply to share love and relationship with, and you are fine with not heading for marriage, then a lack of commitment isn't as big a deal. But I don't get that tone from you.

I personally do not believe it is unreasonable to ask for or to receive clarity about your relationship - especially after three years. Shoot - I know women who would demand clarity after 9 months! LOL. So, I would propose that you ask yourself two questions: _Am I fine with just being a girlfriend or is marriage important enough to me that "dating" has got to be heading there?_ and _If I cannot get a sense that we are going in the same direction, what am I willing to do about it?_ 

You are the only one who can answer those questions.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Have you considered getting the more menial job while doing some sort of internship or apprenticeship? Might be a way to make some connections in your field of choice that could give you a leg up once day.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> Do you think that's the case, even with this update?


You asked if he sees a future with you and he replied, "I think." Yeah, I'd say you both are settling.

Don't you want a guy who says, "Hell yes!" And shows it with his actions?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

:iagree:

I remember I was once dating an "I don't know" guy. 

That ended quickly.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Wow lots of black and white here.
> 
> You were together for a year, then long distance for two. I know you see each other a lot and try to make time for each other. Three years sounds like a lot with with 2 years being barely part time, of course it is hard to know.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! I'm sorry I didn't reply yesterday, but I tried to quote you and the website wouldn't let me! I had to do some funny business to get this quote to post today! :rofl:

I agree with a lot of what you've said, and I appreciate the advice. What I find strange, though, is that everyone says you change a lot from your early to mid-20's and I feel like I have experienced some changes, but I don't think they've been very drastic. Sometimes that makes me feel as if I might be missing out on something, but I'm probably/hopefully just normal.

It's really interesting that people are so divided in their opinions. Hardly anyone's opinion is in the gray area where I think my own should be.



Unique Username said:


> Beyoncé - Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It) - YouTube
> 
> Millionaire Matchmaker says that no ring after 2 years - Walk
> 
> ...


Hahaha, I love the Chipettes video!

I always thought that adage referred mainly to people who were living together. I'm not even providing significant marital perks, since we're so far away. I feel like it'd be less effort to stop talking to me and be single than it is to keep this relationship going.

I know why people say not to wait more than 2 years, but I don't personally believe in a firm and set timeline. Especially when we both have growing/maturing to do. We both still have years of education ahead of us, which is nice but also comes at a cost of not feeling fully independent for that time period and potentially not feeling as mature.



GA HEART said:


> Good update!
> 
> For what it's worth, I am in a wonderful relationship with and live with a wonderful man and we are in a similar boat. We are older (35 and 41) but the same "dunno" feeling is in the atmosphere. We both have ex spouces and are plain scared to "get married" again at this point. And I am absolutely ok with that.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the encouragement! While we're not in the same stages of life, I do think you hit on an invaluable point. I actually talked to my dad about this, and he said something similar to me--that I should be patient because we're both going through transitions and our relationship is somewhat on hold, but at the end of the day it's our relationship that matters and if I think I've found someone who shares my values, loves me, and treats me right (and vice versa) then that is something that should be taken into consideration because it's hard to find. And at the end of the day, a strong and loving relationship is the most important thing of all.

I guess that put things into perspective for me a bit. While I can say I want marriage somewhere down the line, I wouldn't consider it unless the relationship was exceptionally strong. And I feel like this relationship, generally, is exceptionally strong and loving. I don't want to get married tomorrow, so I don't think that'd be a fair standard to impose on my boyfriend either.



Jellybeans said:


> That is a huge difference between you and OP. You and yur husband are older and have both been married already and divorced. So your situation isn't like hers.
> 
> I get that you question whether he ever would ask you, but the OP is in a situation where I wonder if he even wants to get married at all. He is still realllllllllllllly young.
> 
> ...


I think he wants to get married based on what we've talked about. But I don't think he wants it before he feels as if he's older and more fully independent. And that's fine with me. I don't want to get married until I'm older either. So I guess I fail to see how I am rushing by merely asking him how he feels about the situation. Do you think it's too soon for me to ask? If that's the case, how long would you recommend someone waits before asking for some clarity in a situation like mine?

I'm actually confused about your opinion. You say he is really young and probably doesn't know what he wants at this point, but then you also say that his having said "I don't know" is very telling. How can those two things both be true? 

If he's young and doesn't know what he wants, then he wouldn't know--right? Or if "I don't know" indicated a bad outcome then he would know deep down and be hiding his feelings--right? And if he should know by this time based on the amount of time we've been dating, how am I rushing things?



WolverineFan said:


> The issue you are dealing with is insecurity, or that's my interpretation of your post and update. You may be young but your are certainly at an age where it's time to think about your future, especially if you want to have a family. I don't say that to indicate that your time is limited...lol...I say that because you are mature enough to know where you want to go (end-game if you will).
> 
> I have always viewed dating as the process by which where you figure out if this person is someone you are going to marry. After three years and still no commitment, I would begin to feel unsure about the relationship as well. If dating this person is simply to share love and relationship with, and you are fine with not heading for marriage, then a lack of commitment isn't as big a deal. But I don't get that tone from you.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, I think it does come from a sense of insecurity. I was never insecure in our relationship in the past, and when we're together or talking on the phone or on video chat I'm not insecure in our interaction or relationship. It's more that people have started asking me where this is going and what's going to happen, and that sort of outside pressure makes me really nervous. 

I've also started seeing some people I know get engaged and married, mostly people either several years older than I am or people from a region where it is culturally expected to marry early or people who have been dating since high school. So then I start wondering whether there's something wrong with me, but at the same time I know I shouldn't be comparing myself to other people because comparison is the thief of joy.

Within the group of people I went to college with and the people in the region in general where both he and I grew up, marriage is put off until the late 20's generally even if two people have been dating for a long time. I know many people who are my age and have been in 6 or 7 year relationships and are not getting engaged soon or consider themselves not ready for marriage. So maybe it's a cultural thing? Looking at it from that perspective makes me think that I should just chill out and let life take its course. It's actually quite confusing, which is why I posted about this topic in the first place.

I think the questions you posted get to the heart of what I need to be thinking about.

_Am I fine with just being a girlfriend or is marriage important enough to me that "dating" has got to be heading there?_ I love the idea of finding someone you'll be so committed to that you'll both spend the rest of your lives trying to make each other happy and building a partnership with each other. I'm not religious or particularly traditional, but I've always loved the idea of commitment and am the type of person who ends up in several long-term relationships rather than many short-term ones. I also think that the stability of marriage is important for raising a family. Because I want children someday, I do want to get married. Having said that, I realize that marriage only means something if both parties are committed. And the base of a good marriage is a happy, loving, stable, committed relationship. So I don't think I need marriage before I'm closer to having kids, but I would like to get married and it's probably unwise to get too romantically entangled in a long-term relationship that has no potential of leading to marriage.

_If I cannot get a sense that we are going in the same direction, what am I willing to do about it?_ I know I'd be willing to walk away, but I don't know when the appropriate time would be, especially since we are young and I don't want to get married super soon. I also don't want to wake up in 5 years and realize I should have walked away years ago. It seems like somewhat of a gamble either way. I'm inclined to think I should give it more time, though, considering we still have schooling ahead of us and hardly anyone in our friend group is getting married.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Have you considered getting the more menial job while doing some sort of internship or apprenticeship? Might be a way to make some connections in your field of choice that could give you a leg up once day.


This is something I hadn't considered until yesterday, and now it's something I'm definitely considering. I don't feel comfortable moving without any type of job. I'm an independent person and plan to keep it that way. But finding something that is more menial and taking the time to build connections could be what gets me into the field in that city. A bunch of people I know who are not directly in the same industry as me but are in the city my boyfriend resides have had to do this to make connections and break into their fields, and I was hoping I wouldn't have to. The benefit of actually breaking into the industry where he is is that there seem to be a lot of opportunities if one is an "insider" from what I hear (definitely more than there are where I'm currently located), so there's also more room for advancement. Again, this will all be moot if and when I do get into school but it could be something to consider nevertheless.



COguy said:


> You asked if he sees a future with you and he replied, "I think." Yeah, I'd say you both are settling.
> 
> Don't you want a guy who says, "Hell yes!" And shows it with his actions?


I see what you're saying, and it makes sense. I think the flip side of this argument would be that relationships are based on compromise it is quite possible for one party to be ready before the other. I feel like with the internet research I have done over these past few days I have seen a lot of women who want to be married way before their significant other feels ready and when he’s not ready soon enough they start accusing him of not loving them or not wanting to be with them. Which could be true or could be somewhat silly. Just because someone isn't saying "Hell yes!" right now doesn't necessarily mean that person isn't going to be saying "Hell yes!" in the future. 

I do wonder if that is a naive way of thinking, though. :scratchhead: On the inside, I'm torn up between the two extremes and can't seem to get to a comfortable middle spot. But at the end of the day, my relationship with my boyfriend makes me feel amazing, even if we are long distance. So maybe I should hold on to that, do what is reasonable with regards to moving while keeping my independent future in focus, and hope for the best.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I can only give you my advice, as a guy, who's been married before.

I had girlfriends where I was like "meh". When I met my wife I made it a priority to marry her, because I knew she was the one. I was young dumb and wrong, but a guy who values you would never be "blah" about your future. He's just not that into you.

Actions speak louder than words, you can pretty much ignore words actually.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

COguy said:


> I can only give you my advice, as a guy, who's been married before.
> 
> I had girlfriends where I was like "meh". When I met my wife I made it a priority to marry her, because I knew she was the one. I was young dumb and wrong, but a guy who values you would never be "blah" about your future. He's just not that into you.
> 
> Actions speak louder than words, you can pretty much ignore words actually.


Believe it or not, I would classify him as the "shows me he loves me through his actions and is not into words" type. He's an introvert who is really not much for words and is very analytical. 

The only other issue we've had that could at all give any insight into this is that he waited a long time to tell me that he loved me. After I told him how I felt on my side several months into the relationship, he told me that he had been considering saying it for months but hadn't said it to his previous girlfriends and he wanted to be "sure." I got worried about that and talked to some of my female friends who told me that if he treats me like he loves me and I'm the most precious person in the world to him that I should relax and let it be. 

I thought about it and decided then and there that I didn't want to pressure him, and if at a certain point I distinctly felt that I needed more than what he was giving me in this regard I would reevaluate the situation. A few weeks after I got worried, the words came out of his mouth.

When I think about it now, I'm glad I didn't pressure him and gave him time to establish how he felt. I'm a more impulsive personality in general, whereas he is much more deliberate. Our personalities really get along, and I feel like we make a good team because of that and partly because we make up for what the other lacks in certain areas.

Then again, I guess you could see what I wrote here and evaluate that I'm making excuses and he does not care about me the same way I care about him--right? Or something similar? Is that how guys could view this?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think instead of trying to guess, you should figure out where you're headed, and what you want, and what you're willing to accept and not accept. And if he meets those things, you're ok. And if not, you use that as a good basis to determine if you're staying out of fear, guilt, or obligation, or if you should move on.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

I don't think age has anything to do with it. If he's crazy about you, he'll let you know. I agree with others that he's just "blah" about you. If he's really into you, he'll definitely take the steps to show it.

I had exes that just kinda strung me along but didn't seem "crazy" about me. Then I realized that wasn't the right relationship when other guys came along who WERE into me. My high school boyfriend (he was FIFTEEN) even gave me a promise ring and always talked about marrying me one day. My ex in college (was 21) proposed to me after being together less than a year. He talked about marriage from the beginning.

My current husband came to me about 2 years ago (was 19) and expressed to me that he had been in love with me since we dated in middle school. He was so crazy about me that he started referring to me as his "future wife" and talking about future plans to marry me. He was SO into me that I didn't have an inch of doubt on my side. That's how I knew he was the one. I felt the same way about him. Couldn't wait to marry. We eloped in the courthouse 2 weeks later because we were so crazy about each other.

I'm not saying you should marry young. I'm just saying, if he were crazy about you, he'd make it WELL KNOWN that he intends to marry you ASAP. He wouldn't give you a doubt about it. 

"I don't know" after three years as well as "I think so" point towards him not being that into you...Trust me, it feels SO, SO much better to be with someone who is on FIRE about you from the beginning.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi, I have a daughter your age 

I'm also in the "I don't know" camp is not a good sign that he will ever want to marry you. Kind of reminds me of the movie "The Five Year Engagement." 

If this man is as perfect & honest as you say, then he knows. I also think you are so madly in love with him & want to marry him, that you are becoming very insecure about this relationship & if it has a future. That is why you came to this forum right?

I hope I am wrong for your sake.

I knew a young couple a few years older than you. After 3 yrs. they lived together. When she was 25 - 28, she wanted to get married. He would say "maybe some day." She was with him 10 yrs. before he got hot for (co-worker) teacher whom he married in 6 months after dumping "I don't know" girlfriend.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Absolutely wonderful advice has been given!!

From lots of different perspectives too!

You are young and have more college to do......

You really need to be dating other people, experiencing the world, figuring out what makes YOU tick.....

What YOU like and don't, you need to be concentrating on your schooling and your career. PLENTY of time for marriage and baby making ONCE you've reached your goals (or at least finished your schooling)

At your age, darlin...there are so many things you don't know, haven't experience, haven't even thought about yet.....
AND so many different kinds of men you haven't experienced yet

I think that the pressure from both your and his parents, and maybe even friends who are getting married are making you think possibly you SHOULD be married.

He doesn't sound like the great love of your life, I don't think you've met him yet......

it happens when you least expect it, when you are busy going about life. You are keeping yourelf from it by being in a less than perfect long distance relationship.

I think your best decision is to actually date others, enjoy friends, experince life, finish school..you'll know when it's right!
You'll look back on this with a fond, knowing smile...and being sure that you didn't settle.


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## ithoughtthere'dbecoffee (Jul 9, 2014)

Thank you so much everyone for showing me kindness and the thoughtful responses that you put forth to all my questions. Y'all have truly opened my eyes to new possibilities. I definitely need to spend some time thinking things over before I make any decisions one way or the other.

Since I'm currently not married and relatively young, I don't feel qualified to stay on this forum and give advice. But maybe at some point in the future I'll be able to come back, give an update, and stay on. 

I truly wish everyone the best. Until next time... :toast:


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

ithoughtthere'dbecoffee said:


> Thank you so much everyone for showing me kindness and the thoughtful responses that you put forth to all my questions. Y'all have truly opened my eyes to new possibilities. I definitely need to spend some time thinking things over before I make any decisions one way or the other.
> 
> Since I'm currently not married and relatively young, I don't feel qualified to stay on this forum and give advice. But maybe at some point in the future I'll be able to come back, give an update, and stay on.
> 
> I truly wish everyone the best. Until next time... :toast:


Please update us. And though this is a forum called Talk about Marriage, you don't need to be married to stay or post threads. It should be called talk about relationships.


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