# I did something stupid....



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Please don't shoot me...

So as I always have that doubt if H is not contacting his OW overseas...so....I sent her an email today asking her that if she has proof of them still being in contact to send me the proof...

I said to her that if on the off chance they are still in contact that he tells her no don't send her anything then she should wonder why..if his marriage was so bad as I am sure he told her..why wouldn't he want to end it and hook up with her instead. Why would he want to stay married to me..maybe she should think about that?

I also said to her if he is your "dream man" and you know that you are still in contact with him then let me know and I will divorce him. Basically if she wants him then give me proof because I will be done.

I know that was stupid but I couldn't help myself and I thought if she wants him that bad...then here is her opportunity to let me know what is really going on. 

I just can't take him at his word anymore (he seems sincere but then again he seemed sincere for months on end) and even though I check everything I still have that nagging doubt in my mind that maybe he is more sneaky now...

I, due to checking and verifying things, think that absolutely nothing is going on anymore, but there is that little paranoid thoughts that come into my mind every now and then.

I honestly do not think I will hear anything from her...but it was a spur of the moment decision to do it. 

Is this what my life has become:scratchhead:!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Woman!!! I slap you!!!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I know I know...I couldn't help myself! I thought if there was something going on then this is her opportunity to have her "man"...and then I know for sure!!!!

Gosh...I feel at times like I should be on the Jerry Springer show confronting the OW...sad isn't it! Fighting with another woman for my man....how pitiful!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Okay, we all do stupid things, it's not the end of the world, and I understand the impulse...

but yeah. Don't do that again. )


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

No, but what if I get answers out of it..what if there is still contact going on? Do you think, just out of curiousity, that if there was that she would let me know?

Understand that will never happen again..after that email that is it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What if she lies to you??


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Highwood, honey -- if I got that email, and if your husband had told me in no uncertain terms that he loved his wife and that I was never to contact him again...

I would answer, oh yes I would! telling you all about the hot phone sex we were having, just to mess with your mind.

Really. Do not walk up to your enemy, hand them a hammer, and say, "please don't hit me."


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I would expect proof like copies of emails sent in the last month or so basically since DD#2 in April..that is the kind of proof I am looking for.....no, not just her word..I would want to see actual evidence.

To me if she wants him so bad...then this is her opportunity as I would leave the marriage.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

And be VERY cautious in interpreting any BS she sends you! Why do you think she'll tell you the truth? She may manufacture something and actually reach out more to your H because you have suggested things are not wonderful at home. You already know this; but, this was a colossal mistake


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

...and if they are in contact and she tells him about this email and he says no don't send her anything...her as an OW should then wonder why it matters so much to him to keep his marriage together, to not let me see what was going on. That might make her question things on her end as well.....(although I am speaking like this woman has morals or something)


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

How would you know she hadn't faked the emails??

From: Highwoods Hubby [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:36 PM
To: my creamy honey bun
Subject: RE: hi

I can hardly wait to slip my long john into your bun. Thinking of you and hard as a rock right now.

Love, HH


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

KanDo said:


> And be VERY cautious in interpreting any BS she sends you! Why do you think she'll tell you the truth? She may manufacture something and actually reach out more to your H because you have suggested things are not wonderful at home. You already know this; but, this was a colossal mistake


It would be hard to reach out to him..she cannot contact him via phone at all, so the only way would be to contact him via email and he has no email address active that she knows about so not sure how she would do it...(just a note..she lives overseas in another country so not as easy to make contact).


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

I don't blame you for doing that. I feel like doing it too. Although there is supposedly full transparency I still have that little nagging thing going on in my gut too.

But, like everyone else said would you really get the truth that way anyway? Who knows? They are both liars so I wouldn't put it past them...

If she sends you emails you would have proof though. So, it could be a win for you? Or you could get a false sense of reassurance if she covers for him... You won't know until when/if she responds...


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Highwood, honey. Stop that. It's very easy to send emails to wherever you want, regardless of what country they are in.

You have just exposed your flank, to use military parlance. Do not trust anything she says in return. And yeah, just chill, honey. I know it's hard. As I've said before, either you make the decision to trust, or you make the decision to leave. Living in the limboland will drive you insane.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> How would you know she hadn't faked the emails??
> 
> From: Highwoods Hubby [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:36 PM
> ...


Whoa...pretty descriptive there lady


That's true however I would still confront him but before that I kind of know from seeing their prior emails/messenger conversations, etc., how their conversations went...and the type of things he was talking to her about..i.e. where he was working now (he is a subcontractor) so I would be able to tell how legit it was...because he would tell her about the place he was working at, what he has been doing, etc. etc.

So I would without a doubt be able to decipher from the way he is in emails, etc. if it was really him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Stupid? Possibly.

But perfectly understandable from the point of view of a betrayed soul.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Their conversations never were sexual...more I love you kind of stuff and day to day chit chat...

So, for example, one email I saw was when he was in Russia last December working and he was commenting to her about being in Russia and what time him and the other guys went for supper after work (which was correct from what he also told me)...so it would be so easy to tell if it was him without a doubt. So these conversations would entail him telling her what he has been up to work wise, etc. and I would know all that.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

highwood said:


> It would be hard to reach out to him..she cannot contact him via phone at all, so the only way would be to contact him via email and he has no email address active that she knows about so not sure how she would do it...(just a note..she lives overseas in another country so not as easy to make contact).


What? Do you actually believe that in today's techno world?:rofl:
I can have a new email account in 30 seconds. I could speak to you H in a chat room, through an online or phone game and you would never know it! My STBXW was continuing her affair by communicating throgh an online Scrabble like game that had a chat function. Right on her phone! No records, no way to trace it. Even has a quick toggle from the chat to the game to make it easy to hide!

Sorry, but I don't buy that line of thought....


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I know it was stupid but if I try and stop the email in case it has not been read then she would know that as well would she not. Or does it get deleted automatically if not read first?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Bad Highwood, Bad Highwood. Now go to your room until I call you for dinner!!!!


No, seriously. Dont give this POSow something to hold on to. Your H got rid of her and you led her straight back to him.....

I understand what you were trying to do but HW you have to pull yourself together. You are pulling her right back into your life. 

When my H finally quit his job(remember he worked with his AP) and got NC he changed EVERYTHING...Phone number changed. Email address changed. fb closed. LinkedIn closed. He tried to close as many doors as he could to her. I would LOVE to send her pics of him being a husband and father in OUR family and say "hey, YOU lose" but that would be inviting evil into my house after the exorcism.

Come on girl, Youre stronger than this.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

KanDo said:


> What? Do you actually believe that in today's techno world?:rofl:
> I can have a new email account in 30 seconds. I could speak to you H in a chat room, through an online or phone game and you would never know it! My STBXW was continuing her affair by communicating throgh an online Scrabble like game that had a chat function. Right on her phone! No records, no way to trace it. Even has a quick toggle from the chat to the game to make it easy to hide!
> 
> Sorry, but I don't buy that line of thought....


ON his cell phone there is not data plan so no internet/online connection at all...I am the account holder and pay the bill so I have access to all that.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Just leave it alone. If you are concerned, do the keylogger route so you can track your H's activities on line.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

You can't stop the email. It's gone. Just live and learn. With any luck she'll let it lay.

And yes, I did send a nasty email once in a similar situation, so please don't think I'm being ALL that judgmental...just speaking from experience


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I check his computer using a index.dat analyzer thing and to date have not seen anything of concern..I get what you are saying...I just tried to recall the message. 

It is 5:41 a.m. in Singapore right now and I sent it six hours ago..so chances are she might not have had opportunity to read it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

How long has it been that you've been in hyper-vigilance mode again? Sorry I forget.

I spent months thinking of all the same stuff you are. Sooner or later you get to the point where he's restored enough trust that you stop.


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## BettyBoop (Apr 2, 2012)

I can totally understand you. I have stopped myself soooo many times from contacting the OW and I have so much information about her that I could really destroy her, on top of the fact that I can get pretty mean if provoked and G knows I have been provoked. I will not give her the satisfaction though. She’s such lowly life that any attention even if it’s negative, will make her day. However, it has only been three months since DD and I realize I have a long stretch in front of me so I am not going to say “I will never...”
I also get derailed and place my anger on her instead of where it belongs... on my H. It is a whole lot easier to hate her guts and want to hurt her. Sadly, it was my H who promised me till death do us part, she owes me nothing. Woman to woman I have no respect for her she is a desperate, lonely, willing wh*re looking out for herself and what she can get no matter who gets hurt. 
It is sad that we have been placed in a situation where two people have the power to make a fool out of you if they so desire. I will never be absolutely positive that there is NC between them. For the most part, I know he is being truthful and there is transparency but then again I do not know for sure. This woman is not your friend she will never help you or tell you the truth. What if instead of saying these things to the OW you say it to your H? What would he do?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Highwood~

You are doing this to yourself, hon, and you can just as easily choose to stop doing this to yourself. 

Okay here's the real world: within about TWO MINUTES he can go down to the 7-11, get a $20 "phone" and minutes on a card, and call anywhere in the world. He can set up an email account from work or someplace that you'll never see. He can make a new facebook page using the fake email. He can play "Words with Friends" on his iPhone like 80 billion other people do in the world, and it looks fairly innocent. He can party with her and chat or use team chat in World of Warcraft to continue contact. He could join a forum at work about work things where you can't see it, and PM her all day long!! 

My point here is that your snooping is not going to be what stops him. Either he stops on his own, of his own accord, and is open with his time and thoughts and feelings, of his own accord -OR- he resists on his own, takes the affair more clandestine, hides it more professionally, and stays closed. Where there's a will, there's a way...and trust me there are a BILLION ways to cheat!! Thus it is not your snooping that is stopping him...if he is stopping, it is HIM stopping himself!!

Next, you wrote to a person who is a known liar, manipulator, and hider who had no qualms whatsoever being with a married man knowing that she was destroying a marriage and a family. Do you really think that suddenly she will be struck by the lightening of "guilt" and be HONEST now? Or is it much more realistic to think that she's more likely to continue being the liar, manipulator, hider and amoral person she has already demonstrated SHE IS?? So if she's going to continue to lie, and if she is going to try to manipulate YOU and your H into whatever it is she wants, and if she is going to continue to hide the truth (possibly even from herself), and if she is going to continue to show an enormous lack of morals and values...you tell me what she is likely to do when she gets your email: 

a) as a decent, upright, honest, kind, thoughtful person...will she assuage your fears and tell the truth? 

or 

b) as an indecent, amoral, dishonest, unkind, hurtful person...will she either hurt your husband or hurt you (hurt your husband indirectly) for revenge for how she was treated. 

Seriously highwood. You CAN help yourself. You CAN stop yourself. It's not like someone had a gun to your head and forced you to press "send". After this, I expect you'll be able to talk yourself OUT of doing something like this. What's done is done now and can't be taken back, but no matter WHAT she replies, if it were me, I would see the name in my inbox and DELETE IT WITHOUT READING IT and then block her. 

You are prolonging your own agony. Please stop it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Huge Hell Ya to Affaircare. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## BettyBoop (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't know if you would want to do this but if you want to do this but if you're using Outlook Express here is how to retract a sent email. 

http://ittrainingtips.iu.edu/outlook/retract-an-email-in-microsoft-outlook-2007/03/2009

Here is one for gmail

Gmail: Recall Sent Email Messages


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I hear you all! I get it!!!

HOnestly I am not too worried about it..I suspect either it recalled okay or regardless she will not respond at all....

In hindsight I honestly think after dd#2 that H would not be foolish enough to keep contacting her..his son is so important to him and after dd#2 in April and he saw his reaction..it was highly painful for H. As well a messy divorce would not do him favorably financially so when I think about that chances are he would be foolish to even think about continuing contact with her.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> I hear you all! I get it!!!
> 
> HOnestly I am not too worried about it..I suspect either it recalled okay or regardless she will not respond at all....
> 
> In hindsight I honestly think after dd#2 that H would not be foolish enough to keep contacting her..his son is so important to him and after dd#2 in April and he saw his reaction..it was highly painful for H. As well a messy divorce would not do him favorably financially so when I think about that chances are he would be foolish to even think about continuing contact with her.


In all of that I didnt read you ever saying "and I think he is remorseful and really wants the marriage and he loves me". you sound like he is only staying b/c of what you will take from him if he doesnt.....?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I think we all feel your pain. I know I am debating on exposing her now - 3 months after 5th DD (yep - 5 times from Dec - Mar). I have also written up and saved a draft email to send to her - if I ever sent it, it would be the only contact I ever made with her. Basically it says how I am glad that she has moved on with her life and it would be a shame for her family, friends and her live-in boyfriend to find out what happened when she flew out here for 5 days back in November, so she better make sure that she makes no contact with my husband or family ever again. I looked at his FB page about 3 months ago (her BF - thinking I may send him a message) and he has a pic of him and her, so they are just fine - would be a shame for him to find out that she was still sexting my husband while she was sleeping with him.

It is in draft and has been for 3 months. I have held my hand over the send button a few times and always backed out. It is hard - you just want to make sure that if you can't have full trust in your spouse, then you can do something to the AP to make sure there is no relapse. I am standing right beside you. I get it.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sounds eminently reasonable to me.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I think we all feel your pain. I know I am debating on exposing her now - 3 months after 5th DD (yep - 5 times from Dec - Mar). I have also written up and saved a draft email to send to her - if I ever sent it, it would be the only contact I ever made with her. Basically it says how I am glad that she has moved on with her life and it would be a shame for her family, friends and her live-in boyfriend to find out what happened when she flew out here for 5 days back in November, so she better make sure that she makes no contact with my husband or family ever again. I looked at his FB page about 3 months ago (her BF - thinking I may send him a message) and he has a pic of him and her, so they are just fine - would be a shame for him to find out that she was still sexting my husband while she was sleeping with him.
> 
> It is in draft and has been for 3 months. I have held my hand over the send button a few times and always backed out. It is hard - you just want to make sure that if you can't have full trust in your spouse, then you can do something to the AP to make sure there is no relapse. I am standing right beside you. I get it.


I know what you mean. I had a draft written up to OW boyfriend as well. I held it for almost three months. She was told "do not contact"... and I didn't have an address until recently. But, since it had been almost three months, I figured I would just wait until she contacted him (they always do, it seems)... And, while I believed it would have been his birthday, the next special occasion she would attempt contact... I was off by about 2 weeks. So... letter was sent out to her boyfriend on Monday. I am just waiting for the inevitable retaliation. Honestly, tho, hubby has been NC (verified, thoroughly)... and even if she sends anything from when they were in the EA, it doesn't matter now. We are stronger, and this is just a bump in the road of R. 

And highwood... as was stated a few pages ago... emails can be faked. I am sure the OW knows his writing style as well, by now. And, she could EASILY forward and email, inline text, and change the subject line. If she does it as inline text, she can change the date. It could say something generic, but affectionate. Not trying to make things worse for you... just keep that in mind. 

Now, highwood, I would ask: what have we learned from this exercise?? Asking the OW for verification of current contact is a :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> In all of that I didnt read you ever saying "and I think he is remorseful and really wants the marriage and he loves me". you sound like he is only staying b/c of what you will take from him if he doesnt.....?


No, I don't believe that he is just staying for the materials isssues. He has told me if you wanted tohave left he would have left..he is trying to make amends. He gave me a lovely romantic but simple card for my birthday...I really got alot from it..usually he would give me more of a humourous card but this one was very very nice and sweet.

I know he wants the marriage however I think that because it was so complacent previous to his EA I think he worries that we will return to that down the road...which is an understandable concern.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

highwood said:


> I would expect proof like copies of emails sent in the last month or so basically since DD#2 in April..that is the kind of proof I am looking for.....no, not just her word..I would want to see actual evidence.


 Yes copies of emails from your husband dated in June of this year would be actual evidence that you could act on. The other women would never think to take an old email from your husband and change the date before forwarding it on to you because that would be wrong, and she would never do anything wrong to you right? NOT!!!!

Sorry you are here. You clearly are so hurt and confused that you are not thinking straight.


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## blueskies30 (Jan 27, 2010)

I made the mistake of contacting OW. My Husband was home at the time. She told me some truths that he had lied about, but then she started with a bunch of BS when she was caught contacting my Husband a week earlier. She said it was a mistake and she sent it out to 5 different people and she also said her husband was gay and his name was the same as my husbands. She said these things in 3 different emails so she couldn't even keep up with her self. 

Towards the end of her messages she was telling me the PA started the end of September ( which my Husband concurs) and that it didn't end until December right before he moved in with me. She even said he tried to come over on Xmas to presents to her kids. 

I then thought about her time frame and figured out that she was lying to try to case more trouble. In November she had put on my husbands wall that she missed him and hoped to see him again soon. Getting her kids toys was very far fetched because I was with him through all the shopping and I spent 5 days with him over Xmas. Then he moved back in 3 days later. I saw no strange toys at all that we both didn't agree on while shopping together
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

This is a hell of a way to live, isn't it? I feel for you.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't like the person I have become either. i want to reach out to the omw and have contact information but just won't. I would like to get a few things straight. Both the OM and the OMW keep my wife's FB account open (mine is blocked by them), so I can check on their FB accounts through my wife's. She does not have access to her FB account. Funny, they were both posting for a while and stopped in mid May. The OM's friend's list was viturally wiped out, as I know he had other women that he was contacting and now he just has a few family members. I guess his wife or his pastor told him to get rid of people. They were both very active on FB and now it has almost stopped. My mind goes places and I would like to know what is going on with them and I know I should just let it go.

I ruined last night with my wife. We are now hooking up midweek half way between our home (where my wife lives) and my apartment. Last week we had a great time. Last night I went into interrogation mode and my wife got upset. I tried to repair it with some attempt but my wife's mood this morning was down. She got sick when she got home because she was still upset. If we could have gone home together it would had been better.

So yes we make mistakes and yes we have to stop some of this but it is just hard. I wish I was closer to my buddies but since moving here I am isolated and only have the phone and it is not cutting it. 

Hang in there.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> In all of that I didnt read you ever saying "and I think he is remorseful and really wants the marriage and he loves me". you sound like he is only staying b/c of what you will take from him if he doesnt.....?


In my personal opinion, finances is the reason why a lot of cheaters of both sexes want to remain married after exposure. 

The OWs are often using the oblivious husband as a meal ticket and the cheating men don't want to divorce a wife because divorce costs them too much.

They may not say that is the reason for staying, they may deny it, but it is likely a reason in more cases than known.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> I know I know...I couldn't help myself! I thought if there was something going on then this is her opportunity to have her "man"...and then I know for sure!!!!
> 
> Gosh...I feel at times like I should be on the Jerry Springer show confronting the OW...sad isn't it! Fighting with another woman for my man....how pitiful!


That is how I felt about STBEH. I have been married 20 years. Things were good by all accounts even our friends mentioned how we seemed to be happy with each other. 

Now after 20 years, it's like I was dating him and competing for his affection. 

That competition should have ended when we married. It did for me.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> I would expect proof like copies of emails sent in the last month or so basically since DD#2 in April..that is the kind of proof I am looking for.....no, not just her word..I would want to see actual evidence.
> 
> To me if she wants him so bad...then this is her opportunity as I would leave the marriage.


Highwood:

My opinion is that this is okay as long as you insist on real proof not rumors. 

She may lie, but if she doesn't back it with proof, it's likely a lie. She will definitely have proof to show you. 

You are offering him to her. She will likely take the bait. 

Just expect that she my try to lie. 

I can't blame you for wanting to learn the truth so you can decide to continue to reconcile or Divorce.

Why waste any more time if he still talks to her now?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Highwood, honey. Stop that. It's very easy to send emails to wherever you want, regardless of what country they are in.
> 
> You have just exposed your flank, to use military parlance. Do not trust anything she says in return. And yeah, just chill, honey. I know it's hard. As I've said before, either you make the decision to trust, or you make the decision to leave. Living in the limboland will drive you insane.


In her post she already told you she is living in limbo land. 

If you have been cheated on you can't believe what the cheater says, ever again. You are always in limbo land henceforth. 

My STBEH, so many time, looked me sincerely in the eye and lied about money, women, trips, sex clubs, etc. Even after dday he lied. 

I don't see anything wrong with telling the OW she can have the hubby if she can prove she's still in contact. She may take the bait.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> In my personal opinion, finances is the reason why a lot of cheaters of both sexes want to remain married after exposure.
> 
> The OWs are often using the oblivious husband as a meal ticket and the cheating men don't want to divorce a wife because divorce costs them too much.
> 
> They may not say that is the reason for staying, they may deny it, but it is likely a reason in more cases than known.


This is true but NOT my point. My point was the reasons SHE stated that he was staying. I asked her if she thought it was all financial or if there was more to it b/c she only mentioned the financial part. 

I understand finances has alot to do with if some WS/BS stay or go but that wasnt my question. My question to her was what SHE was saying was all about what she could take from him and if SHE thought those were his only reasons for staying. 

And I dont think "money is likely the reason for staying more than is known"..... Thats part of cake eating. Keeping what you have and taking more from somewhere else. Alot of people have A's because getting a D is just too costly. So they cheat and lie when caught so they wont lose their precious 'lifestyle'. Its VERY WELL KNOWN IMO.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Bad Highwood, Bad Highwood. Now go to your room until I call you for dinner!!!!
> 
> 
> No, seriously. Dont give this POSow something to hold on to. Your H got rid of her and you led her straight back to him.....
> ...


If it is so easy for the OW to rekindle with Highwood's husband, what has she lost if he goes back because she sent the email. 

I think the point is to find out if HER HUSBAND IS COMMITTED TO HER, WILLINGLY NOT CAPTIVELY?

As has been mentioned in another post there are a lot of deceptive ways to stay in contact with the OP despite claimed transparency. 

Sometimes allowing transparency is a cover to throw the faithful spouse of the scent of deception.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

TRy said:


> Yes copies of emails from your husband dated in June of this year would be actual evidence that you could act on. The other women would never think to take an old email from your husband and change the date before forwarding it on to you because that would be wrong, and she would never do anything wrong to you right? NOT!!!!
> 
> Sorry you are here. You clearly are so hurt and confused that you are not thinking straight.


If she is worried that a email header has been faked, she can send the header to an online detective agency. 

For less than 100 bucks they can confirm the legitimacy of the header. 

Actually, it's not too difficult to figure out how to do this yourself. 

Google how to know if email header is faked.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

blueskies30 said:


> I made the mistake of contacting OW. My Husband was home at the time. She told me some truths that he had lied about, but then she started with a bunch of BS when she was caught contacting my Husband a week earlier. She said it was a mistake and she sent it out to 5 different people and she also said her husband was gay and his name was the same as my husbands. She said these things in 3 different emails so she couldn't even keep up with her self.
> 
> Towards the end of her messages she was telling me the PA started the end of September ( which my Husband concurs) and that it didn't end until December right before he moved in with me. She even said he tried to come over on Xmas to presents to her kids.
> 
> ...


Yes, the affair partner is a confirmed liar and deceiver and you believe your cheater husband because????????????????????????

There are lots of ways to get around trackers, key loggers, email account transparency.

This is the real world not OZ


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> If it is so easy for the OW to rekindle with Highwood's husband, what has she lost if he goes back because she sent the email.
> 
> I think the point is to find out if HER HUSBAND IS COMMITTED TO HER, WILLINGLY NOT CAPTIVELY?
> 
> ...


True but in this case the woman is on another continent. There is NO chance this is currently a PA and according to HW the EA ended in April. SOOOO, now she has been excised from her life and she just opened the door to her AGAIN. 

*And her methodology is NOT even close to foolproof. Keylogging the computer would have been so much easier AND without an invitation attached to allow evil to enter your house yet again.*


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Yes, the affair partner is a confirmed liar and deceiver and you believe your cheater husband because????????????????????????
> 
> There are lots of ways to get around trackers, key loggers, email account transparency.
> 
> This is the real world not OZ


I dont think she ever said she believed her 'cheater husband'. BUT what she did say is that she has made the choice to attempt R. She is sabotaging herself. Staying stuck in the same ole' pattern, not moving forward. At some point, if this marriage is to work, she has to take some leap of faith AND have some self restraint. She wants her marriage to work. YOU are done with yours.Thats truly unfortunate for you but *WHY do you insist on dragging EVERYONE down??????* Her H sounds remorseful and like he is making a true effort to R. We are trying to help her be rational yet cautious- NOT RECKLESS.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

> I ruined last night with my wife. We are now hooking up midweek half way between our home (where my wife lives) and my apartment. Last week we had a great time. Last night I went into interrogation mode and my wife got upset. I tried to repair it with some attempt but my wife's mood this morning was down. She got sick when she got home because she was still upset. If we could have gone home together it would had been better.
> 
> So yes we make mistakes and yes we have to stop some of this but it is just hard. I wish I was closer to my buddies but since moving here I am isolated and only have the phone and it is not cutting it.
> 
> Hang in there.


Is it a mistake to interrogate. It seems normal and expected given you are dealing with a liar, and a cheat.

My STBEH spent a lot of money on the OW. That should be theft of marital assets. He also stole time from me, and I am mentally affected by his cheating in a way that has derailed my former life to a great degree. 

Does your spouse have any right at all to be upset at an interrogation. 

If the situation was reversed you bet she would interrogate you. 

You didn't ruin your time with your wife by interrogating her. You acted in a normal way to a trauma. 

Your wife ruined your time together because she cheated.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> *And her methodology is NOT even close to foolproof. Keylogging the computer would have been so much easier AND without an invitation attached to allow evil to enter your house yet again.*


EA affairs are harder to get past, according to the stats. This guy told the OW he loved her. 

I think what Highpoint is feeling is that if she has to worry about evil getting into the house again, than her husband is NOT COMMITTED to the marriage. 

Why would anyone want to have to worry about that again. She needs an answer. Why shouldn't she get it. 

I think a detective is her best bet, but can she afford one?

You can get around a key logger by finding it. It's Easy. 

You can get around a key logger by using another computer or a free library computer. 

You can get past a tracker by leaving your car at office parking lot and getting into APs car.

You can get past smart phone monitoring by buying a burn phone with cash. 

So tell me again, How does high wood know her liar cheater husband has now seen the light and has become truthful. She doesn't.

Maybe he has. But there is nothing wrong with wanting proof. 

I personally think the OW will take high wood's bait if they are still in contact.

She wants this guy and high wood is just in the way.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> If she is worried that a email header has been faked, she can send the header to an online detective agency.
> 
> For less than 100 bucks they can confirm the legitimacy of the header.
> 
> ...


As I pointed out before, Sara, this is an enormous misuse of emotional energy. Not to mention money.

Dwelling in the problem works for some people but not for all, and it's not particularly healthy.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I dont think she ever said she believed her 'cheater husband'. BUT what she did say is that she has made the choice to attempt R. She is sabotaging herself. Staying stuck in the same ole' pattern, not moving forward. At some point, if this marriage is to work, she has to take some leap of faith AND have some self restraint. She wants her marriage to work. YOU are done with yours.Thats truly unfortunate for you but *WHY do you insist on dragging EVERYONE down??????* Her H sounds remorseful and like he is making a true effort to R. We are trying to help her be rational yet cautious- NOT RECKLESS.


I am answering questions Highwood asked, and disputing some disinformation presented in your post. 

You claim cheater OW will lie, well so may cheater husband. 

Transparency. Wake up?

Highwood is looking for the truth. 

Some prefer to bury their head in the sand. 

I believe Highwood is asking for advice both ways good and bad. 

You have your advice and I have mine. 

Faulty inaccurate advice helps no one. 

I am simply presenting the facts. 

For example, the fact is that transparency offered in the way of email passwords and other forms, can be a cover and can easily be gotten around. 

Why do those facts bother you so much. 

This is high wood's question and she seems to want honest answers.

BTW: my marriage is only over because I deemed it so. STBEH wants to work things out. 

I am sorry some people feel a captive husband is better than no husband. I don't.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lamaga said:


> As I pointed out before, Sara, this is an enormous misuse of emotional energy. Not to mention money.
> 
> Dwelling in the problem works for some people but not for all, and it's not particularly healthy.


Lamaga 

I agree it is not healthy. 

Still suspicion and doubt is not healthy either. Moving forward without proof may not be healthy either because too many times cheaters re-offend. 

Cheating has been likened to an addiction a sex addiction or addiction to the emotional high of attention. 

It's all about dopamine and adrenaline, just like a compulsive gambler. 

Just because a cheater says it's over doesn't mean it is so. 

Drug addicts, gamblers, and other addicts, will lie cheat and steal to get their fix sometimes. 

Some go straight, but how many?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

God..I wish I did not start this thread...

My primary reason was to see if she would take the bait....as simple as that.....it has been at least 24 hours since I sent the email and unless it got recalled successfully...and nothing from OW. 

I have no fear of them reestablishing contact because of this email..that is ludicrous, how would she contact him???? Unless my index dat analyzer was wrong on the weekend it showed zero email accounts on his computer (H knows I am quite good on the computer..alot more comfortable than he is)....as well unless she phones him which would be foolish because it is long distance and I see every single call and text that comes in and out of that phone, and as I said before and everybody says well he can do this and he can do that...I monitor everything, from his cell phone (which I am the account holder for and he has zero (0) data plan on, I know this for a fact because I as the account holder have full authority over the phone!!!!!! So zero data plan means no internet access on that phone........, Regarding him going out and buying a pay and talk phone, the poor guy since April can't spend $5.00 without me knowing where he spent it due to doing online banking, etc.. ON online banking you see every single transaction on your account..and before anybody says he could have a secret account..he could not because his pay goes into our joint account and unless he was transferring money to another account...again I would see that.... 

Some people I know will say on here, why do you have to monitor everything..to me that is part of the process..you have to verify and keep your wits about you as simple as that. Anybody on here who takes someone;s word is not playing it smart..for peace of mnd you have to verify/check, etc.



So if you are not using your computer to contact someone and not your phone both landline and cell...how else would you contact them via snail mail..that wouldn't work either because I have the only key to our mail box and I am the one to check it. 

So please enlighten me as to how else she could reestablish contact with him due to this email??? Living in Singapore and him living in Canada...

I just wanted to see if she would take the bait as I said and obviously she did not take the bait or has nothing to share...and from what I have seen I suspect the latter is the reason why...


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

All of us on here know our spouses, etc. and we know the context of their affair..whether it be EA or PA, whatever..as well we know if we have seen text messages, emails, etc. I would know with 100% certainty whether an email that she sends me is legit..I know, as I said before, what they talked about, so if he was in Brazil in May that would come up in the conversation easily....so for those that say she could fool me..no she could not fool me that easily...so for those that think I would just take some stupid email and just think yes that is good evidence no that would not happen.

If they were not in contact thru May (after DD#1 in April) she would not know where he was working at...but....if they were in contact then she would know as simple as that...believe me when I say it would have come up in their conversations online.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> God..I wish I did not start this thread...
> 
> My primary reason was to see if she would take the bait....as simple as that.....it has been at least 24 hours since I sent the email and unless it got recalled successfully...and nothing from OW.
> 
> ...


I guess my question then is - IF you are so sure of everything you just stated(basically he cant pee or you'll know) then why send this email in the first place????


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

It was a spur of the moment thing..haven't you ever had those days where you feel okay and confident and positive and then a small twing of doubt comes into your head...that is all!!! Anybody who has no doubts/paranoia after infidelity must be a better person than I.

...and if you are saying that I am overmonitoring well to me that is what I have to do for peace of mind right now...he knows it and is 100% okay with it...so if anybody says don't verify check things out well good for them..obviously they were able to reesablish trust faster than I can two months after DD#2.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> All of us on here know our spouses, etc. and we know the context of their affair..whether it be EA or PA, whatever..as well we know if we have seen text messages, emails, etc. I would know with 100% certainty whether an email that she sends me is legit..I know, as I said before, what they talked about, so if he was in Brazil in May that would come up in the conversation easily....so for those that say she could fool me..no she could not fool me that easily...so for those that think I would just take some stupid email and just think yes that is good evidence no that would not happen.
> 
> If they were not in contact thru May (after DD#1 in April) she would not know where he was working at...but....if they were in contact then she would know as simple as that...believe me when I say it would have come up in their conversations online.


IMO, I don't think you did anything wrong by sending the email you described. 

Now if you were begging her to leave your spouse alone, I would think that was a bad idea. 

But, IMO, your email was exquisite for many reasons. 

One: she may take the bait.

Two: If she doesn't, so what you haven't lost anything.

Three: If hubby is really committed and not in contact she will realize that you are willing to let him go, but he wants to stay.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So after you and your spouse got together you had zero doubts/insecurities, etc. afterwards?? You just relyed on his trusting words to you?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> It was a spur of the moment thing..haven't you ever had those days where you feel okay and confident and positive and then a small twing of doubt comes into your head...that is all!!! Anybody who has no doubts/paranoia after infidelity must be a better person than I.
> 
> ...and if you are saying that I am overmonitoring well to me that is what I have to do for peace of mind right now...he knows it and is 100% okay with it...so if anybody says don't verify check things out well good for them..obviously they were able to reesablish trust faster than I can two months after DD#2.


Yes. It's normal to be suspicious going forward and IMO, it's healthy to be less trusting than pre affair. 

Also, I don't think it sounds as if you have him so locked up he can't pee. It sounds to me as if you know that you will never really know everything about another person.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks Sara...I think everyone thinks it is some catastrophe I know it is not..it is like I said..if she provided info (stress again..legitimate info) to me..that would have been it marriage wise..

If she wanted this guy so bad...why wouldn't she take the bait...and send me legit proof..then I am out of the picture and if he tells her on the rare chance they are in contact still, please do not send my wife anything..if you are the OW would you not wonder why your man doesn't want to end his marriage?? I would...and I would be pissed off about it...and wonder how serious he was about me his OW...


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> So after you and your spouse got together you had zero doubts/insecurities, etc. afterwards?? You just relyed on his trusting words to you?


Highwood:

I am not sure this is for me. If it is.

No, I did not totally trust my spouse early in the marriage, but I never suspected cheating. 

After about ten years I did trust his words. I even told others he would never cheat, and that is why I gave him so much freedom. Yes. I stupidly believed him when he said he would never cheat on me. 

After during the false reconciliation I did not ever trust what he said, but I tried to avoid accusing him of things I was only suspicious of. 

I only confronted him with solid proof the first dday and on the second.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> It was a spur of the moment thing..haven't you ever had those days where you feel okay and confident and positive and then a small twing of doubt comes into your head...that is all!!! Anybody who has no doubts/paranoia after infidelity must be a better person than I.
> 
> ...and if you are saying that I am overmonitoring well to me that is what I have to do for peace of mind right now...he knows it and is 100% okay with it...so if anybody says don't verify check things out well good for them..obviously they were able to reesablish trust faster than I can two months after DD#2.


I have those kinds of day quite OFTEN. Please dont feel defensive HW, you know I understand the monitoring thing. I wasnt saying you shouldnt or that youre overdoing it, really. It was a real question. I get your answer. You reacted to your fear. I totally get that! Ive done it several times. Hells Bells chico- I broke my damned hand 'reacting'. Please dont feel judged by me. I have done ALL of the things you mentioned and THEN SOME. 

The answer to your question do I just rely on his words to me-NO. I live by trust but verify and imagine that will be my montra for quite a while.

You have NO idea how close my h's AP came to going to work with two black eyes just so she had to explain what happened. I even considered beating crap out of her then sending a company wide email saying "act like a ho, get treated like a ho" so trust me-I dont judge you. Im just trying to help you get some traction here.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> Thanks Sara...I think everyone thinks it is some catastrophe I know it is not..it is like I said..if she provided info (stress again..legitimate info) to me..that would have been it marriage wise..
> 
> If she wanted this guy so bad...why wouldn't she take the bait...and send me legit proof..then I am out of the picture and if he tells her on the rare chance they are in contact still, please do not send my wife anything..if you are the OW would you not wonder why your man doesn't want to end his marriage?? I would...and I would be pissed off about it...and wonder how serious he was about me his OW...


Ditto.

And, I think it is healthy that you are directing more anger toward hubby than OW. 

Your note sounded very kind and civil


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I know it is common for people to think..well why check on them..if they are truly committed to the marriage then they will not do anything..it also depends on the nature of the affair..In H's case his was an EA only..the chances of them meeting again in person was so rare...however he got addicted to her flattery, making him feel good, etc. all online. Again due to his sexual issues due to SSRIS he never felt sexual/romantic with her (SSRIS make you lose in alot of people sexual libido/romantic feelings, etc.)..however she did not know that he was suffering from that and due to him feeling like less than a man because of it, especially around me,his wife,..he was able to fool her and himself into thinking he was still a red blooded male because he would never have to prove it with her. So in a way when I look at it from a guy's persepctive I can kind of understand what the appeal was for him...but....nonetheless it is still totally wrong what he was doing and I am not going to be one of those woman that says well as long as they never see each other in person and it is strictly online oh well...I will turn a blind eye to it. 

I can't imagine after going thru this just taking someone's word that they are being trustworthy again..sorry you have to earn it back by proving it to me and by allowing me to have access to everything.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> I know it is common for people to think..well why check on them..if they are truly committed to the marriage then they will not do anything..it also depends on the nature of the affair..In H's case his was an EA only..the chances of them meeting again in person was so rare...however he got addicted to her flattery, making him feel good, etc. all online. Again due to his sexual issues due to SSRIS he never felt sexual/romantic with her (SSRIS make you lose in alot of people sexual libido/romantic feelings, etc.)..however she did not know that he was suffering from that and due to him feeling like less than a man because of it, especially around me,his wife,..he was able to fool her and himself into thinking he was still a red blooded male because he would never have to prove it with her. So in a way when I look at it from a guy's persepctive I can kind of understand what the appeal was for him...but....nonetheless it is still totally wrong what he was doing and I am not going to be one of those woman that says well as long as they never see each other in person and it is strictly online oh well...I will turn a blind eye to it.


Your logic for why he was interested in the OW is totally logical. I think it is spot on logic.

The OW was obviously only interested in him so she could get citizenship in a better country. 

I still think his meds have something to do with his behavior.

I don't fault you at all for wanting proof.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

CTU..I get where you are coming from and I appreciate your comments...even though I acknowlege yes I shouldn't have sent it, there was some method to my madness behind it...as stupid as it might have seem.

Believe me I will not do that again..to me that was it for me..if she didn't take the bait then that is it I am done.

My gut does tell me, and my gut has served me well during this process, that there is no contact since DD#2..however I just had kind of a thought of hmmmm just on the rare chance what if...

Understand that H still six months after stopping SSRi's is still suffering from the sexual issues and this is very painful and frustrating for him..and he gets worried about how long it will last. So a part of me thinks that he might miss the stupid flattery that she gave him because it does make him feel good/like a hot blooded man, with no fear of proving it to her..see with me he is incapable of showing me physically his loveand that is very troubling for him...and for a guy who had a high libido to have nothing is very very distressing.

H in his mind, admitted that because he knew that him and this person were never going to see each other again..that to him it didn't seem like cheating in a way...if that makes any sense. He kind of thought that eventually anyway it would just peter out that she would end up meeting someone else, etc. etc.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Your logic for why he was interested in the OW is totally logical. I think it is spot on logic.
> 
> The OW was obviously only interested in him so she could get citizenship in a better country.
> 
> ...


I totally agree...everybody saw it but him I guess at the time...I think she made him feel good about himself and sadly I was not doing that at the time. So when someone is making you feel great..you tend to ignore the other stuff.

Those meds are terrible, if you check out SSRI's and sexual dysfunction online as a search, it is very prevalent..they also call them marriage killers because they make the person on them feel like they are falling out of love with their spouse..

On DD#1 he said to me that for the last 3 years he was thinking he was not in love with me..funny that was exactly when he started the meds....coincidence I think not! 

But both him and his dr. did not correlate what he was experienceing with the meds...he went to the dr. about his inabiltiy to get an erection about a year before his EA, and the dr. put him on viagjra..the only thing is Viagra only works is you have the sexual desire..which he did not. So poor guy VIagra was not even working..


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> CTU..I get where you are coming from and I appreciate your comments...even though I acknowlege yes I shouldn't have sent it, there was some method to my madness behind it...as stupid as it might have seem.
> 
> Believe me I will not do that again..to me that was it for me..if she didn't take the bait then that is it I am done.
> 
> ...


yeah I know. I get being worried about then needing their 'fix'. I still get that fear. My H doesnt have sexual issues(thankfully) and I know that is a big worry for both you and your H. I imagine it would be hard on each of you for different reasons. Im FAR and AWAY less trusting than I used to be and will never go back to blind trust. I'd be a fool. Like you my 'gut' is what got him busted in the first place so I get that. But I also think mine is in overdrive since learning of the EA. I am frustrated taht I didnt jump in and stop it earlier(when I first got suspicious). So now its like Im hyper-alert so I wont 'miss the signs' if there is a next time. 

Im just trying to help you focus, or at least I was. I wish you the best, truly.

CTU


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So the poor guy thought hmmmm can't get an erection and have no desire to have sex...must have made him feel pretty bad and with our great complacent no communication, no sex marriage obviously I had no clue what was going on.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> yeah I know. I get being worried about then needing their 'fix'. I still get that fear. My H doesnt have sexual issues(thankfully) and I know that is a big worry for both you and your H. I imagine it would be hard on each of you for different reasons. Im FAR and AWAY less trusting than I used to be and will never go back to blind trust. I'd be a fool. Like you my 'gut' is what got him busted in the first place so I get that. But I also think mine is in overdrive since learning of the EA. I am frustrated taht I didnt jump in and stop it earlier(when I first got suspicious). So now its like Im hyper-alert so I wont 'miss the signs' if there is a next time.
> 
> Im just trying to help you focus, or at least I was. I wish you the best, truly.
> 
> CTU


I agree with you and wish you the best as well....

That is hard for me because I need the intimacy right now and cannot get it and it is hard for H because he wants that too but cannot perform (for lack of a beter term)...it is tough.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> I agree with you and wish you the best as well....
> 
> That is hard for me because I need the intimacy right now and cannot get it and it is hard for H because he wants that too but cannot perform (for lack of a beter term)...it is tough.


I can only imagine HW. Sex is very connective. Agreed. Are you able to find other ways to gain some intimacy in the interim?

BTW, what do the drs. say about it taking so long for the SSRI's to leave his system and hence no longer effect his desire/ability?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Well you found your cheerleaders. 

Good luck with your recovery! Tootles.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I can only imagine HW. Sex is very connective. Agreed. Are you able to find other ways to gain some intimacy in the interim?
> 
> BTW, what do the drs. say about it taking so long for the SSRI's to leave his system and hence no longer effect his desire/ability?


The doctor just said to be patient..understand that sometimes these family dr.'s don't know much about the meds they are prescibring. 

Everything we are reading online from other sufferers of these is that it can take months or even years...it is very concerning to me because I am only 43..do I want to stay in a marriage with someone in which we have no physical intimacy at all? He realizes that by taking those pills it caused a lot of issues between us and probably led him to be more inclined to be more vulnerable to someone else.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Just an FYI..I have had a few people PM me..stating that they themselves have done something similar and that they can fully understand why I did what I did...they just chose not to reveal it openly on the forum and I respect that.

Honestly I think when emotion is involved it is hard to always do the right thing...obviously the WS knows this more than the BS does in many circumstances.

Not saying what I did was right for everyone's situation by any means however it was a decision I chose to do and it is not the end of the world...I had my reasons to do it.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

If it hasn't already been said already, you shouldn't have sent that email. Recall it if you still can.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> If it hasn't already been said already, you shouldn't have sent that email. Recall it if you still can.


I stated yesterday in a post that I did attempt to recall it not sure if it worked but regardless if it didn't oh well..the world has not ended for me....

Sorry I baited a ***** that chose to continue corresponding with my husband for months knowing he was still married....what a terrible person am I!!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> I stated yesterday in a post that I did attempt to recall it not sure if it worked but regardless if it didn't oh well..the world has not ended for me....
> 
> Sorry I baited a ***** that chose to continue corresponding with my husband for months knowing he was still married....what a terrible person am I!!


Im sorry HW but when you post a thread called "I did something stupid".......


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Im sorry HW but when you post a thread called "I did something stupid".......


Yes I get that..but in hindsight it was not that big of a deal...I mean the world is still spinning and I am fine! Oddly enough since that email I have felt more at peace...it is mid afternoon here and the last time I felt anxious was before I sent the email yesterday morning..honestly this might have been the longest stretch of feeling calm I have had in two months before DD#2..very strange.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

...and not trying to sound like a bag about it so I apologize if that is how I am coming off. TO me though if they were still in contact then this is truly the best way for me to find out and if they were not in contact and somehow she found some rare way to reestablish because of this email and it drove them back to each other....then you know what they are meant to be together and deserve each other then. 

My gut tells me that there is no contact going on because if she wanted her man she would be giving me info....perhaps that is why I feel calmer than I have in a while. Why would she not want me out of his life?? If you were so in love with a married guy would you not want his wife out of his life??

I suppose too that those of us that are BS..there will always be those thoughts about what if, etc. It is only natural.


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## seenthrume (Jun 21, 2012)

New here, but jumping right in because of this thread.

So much to get into, but the upshot is that I am somewhat on the other side of High and Sara's position. I didn't cheat on my wife, but I sent out some emails and the like looking to do so. My issue is that my wife just can't believe that I still want to be with her. Trust is an obvious issue, but it's more about a believability in who I am.

As High does, she can monitor absolutely everything I do, which is really fine with me as I'm very proud of the transparency I've achieved since I was found out 2 years ago. As Sara points out, however, her prevailing attitude is that she can never REALLY know for sure, so at some point she has to take it on faith, trust whatever you want to call it.

We are at the point where she feels that she is trapped in our marriage for a number of reasons that is a bit too much to go into here. It's entirely my fault. My own crisis is that it would be nothing short of a tragedy if we end up apart over her belief in a non truth. Sara seems to be coming from a bit of an extreme point of view, but it's understandable. My wife has these kind of days and it's heartbreaking, but also understandable. 

High, you need to find your comfort zone with this, but Sara is right in a lot of ways. I have an unfortunate talent for deception that I have to keep in check. I can tell you one very easy way to establish contact is through a 3rd party. All dudes have friends, and dudes' friends are there for them because they're dudes. It's the way men are. They will go to the wall for each other and you need to realize that. The only recourse for ANY of us is that we just have to believe in the other person.

My wife doesn't believe in me now. So in addition to my observations of High's situation, I am seeking insight from the likes of High and Sara on the possibility of how I get back what I so easily blew up?

Always more, but we've gotta start somewhere.


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