# Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on ME. I am devastated.



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, boys and girls. Hold onto your pants. I got this message from his best friend this morning. Now tell me what you think is best. 

_
I'm sorry I may have worded that wrong because I know you aren't looking for anyone to take sides and I definitely don't want to shut you out. I know that if *** had any suspicion that I was talking to you that it would push him away from me and then you would lose one of the last connections you have to him. I think *** has emotionally attached himself to ****** whether it is cheating or not. He knows that what he is feeling is wrong and it is making him be driven by guilt. I wish I could go deal with ****** myself and if it gets to much further I just might have to. She was a drain on him in high school and obviously she is a drain on him now. I know I have said this before but he has some crazy nostalgia malfunction in his head. When we talk he usually tells me about what everyone from high school is doing and who is where and it is just weird. To be honest with you I could give 2 ****s less about most of the people from high school. Facebook, as useful as it is for communicating with close family and friends from a distance, is the devil when it comes to drumming up the past and *** thrives on the past. I have friends on my Facebook page that I wasn't even friends with in high school just because they saw me on ***'s page. Most of them I can't remember to save my life nor care to. It used to be your first love was a part of your history that you looked back at and laughed or whatever, and now they come back to haunt you.

I think a lot of what *** has going on is confusion. I know he loves you and the kids to death and deep down wants everything to work out. I just think there is a constant birdie in his ear making him think about bull **** he can't have back here. My biggest suggestion when all of this works itself out is to not let him do the alone Vegas trips anymore. And I don't mean "let" in the sense that you control his every move but work on doing a couples trip out here. I think if he came out here with you and didn't try to contact all of his old d-bags from high school and the idiot chicks it would be a lot more enjoyable for him to be able to show you where he grew up. He has a few girls out here from high school who are down to earth and married living their lives that are ok. I for one can't understand the ****** thing. I think if one of us can help him rid himself of ****** your life would go back to normal. He isn't cheating on you in the adulterer sense of the word but I believe he has attached himself to her emotionally. The bad part is that the more you push him about her the further you are going to push him away. He has never liked anyone telling him what he can and can't do and will do the opposite if pressured. He has this odd personality flaw that he thinks that even if he knows he is doing the wrong thing he will continue to do it if told not to. His Mom knows that and that is probably why she is being or appears to be being an enabler.

You are in a really difficult situation and I don't envy you one bit at this moment. I know where you're at because I'm in the same place for different reasons. I am dealing with another person in my wife's life and it is hard because it is her own Mother and Sister who are wrecking her. I have hit the point where I am done and not dealing with it anymore. If she really wants the family to work and really wants to get better she is going to have to do it because I'm done pushing. I think you will get to that point and he will be on his own. Sometimes that is what it takes. I can and will continue to try to help him as much as possible since I am in a different position then you are and have a little more room for pushing in a different way. Do your best not do things like call ****** or pressure him about her because that is hurting your cause even though it is really tempting. He is like a retarded rattle snake and if you corner him he will strike even though it hurts him more then it will hurt anyone else. So give him some space, let me try to talk to him. He was supposed to be calling me this weekend, he promised, and didn't so I will get back on the horn and try to do what I can. I can call Mom also and see what her take is on it because she will talk to me, I'm sure. She has to know something about what is going on with him and I really doubt she is ok with all of this. I'll send her a message later today and if she doesn't reply I'll call her in a day or so. If that doesn't work I'll call in the big guns, my Mom and my sister and *** isn't stupid and won't cross those two because he is afraid of them. But try to enjoy your life with the kids and make him realize that you and the kids lives will continue on whether he is there or not. The kids don't need this drama and he knows that. The biggest weapon you have is to not let him control you. Right now he is in control of the situation and you are falling into every trap he sets. When he leaves at night or whenever don't try to call him and don"t try to figure out who he is talking to. If you want to know if he is talking to me just call me ***-***-****. But rather then calling her just text me and ask even though I don't suggest it. Let him make his own decisions and pray he makes the right one because if pushed he won't. The best thing you can do for you and the kids right now is to plow through this with conviction and let him do what he is going to do. I know he isn't going to pick up and move here without you and the kids and she isn't going anywhere. She is a Vegas sleaze who needs her gambling drinking and club life. I'll let you know what happens and hopefully neighbor can get through to him. He talks about neighbor all the time and I'm sure between the 2 of us we can get through to him and make him make some sort of decisions in his life. He can't just continue to drag you and the kids through the mud and I don't believe that he realizes he is doing that. So if you need anything else let me know, I'm here for you guys. I wasn't the best man at your just because he asked it is because it meant something. Another good person to talk to at this point would be *****. She could probably help you also and is a good ear to vent to and I know she isn't too happy with *******, as she calls him, at this moment either. So hang tough, you"ll get through this and things will work out for you one way or another it is just hard for you to see that right now._

WHAT NOW? DO I EVEN WANT THIS SCUMBAG? THIS IS THE SECOND EMOTIONAL AFFAIR IN 4 YEARS!

It sucks because I've worked so hard at bettering myself, and I've been told by so many close to me that I'm a better person than they are because they would have snapped long ago. For those that have listened and given advice to me along the way, I thank you. I guess I really didn't want to believe he was having another EA. Everything makes sense now. Actually, it was almost too text book and too many red flags. He hasn't spoken to me since last Friday when I followed him home, called him and he was on the other line, then called the OW and just let it ring. He was so mad at me saying I embarrassed him with my obsession over this one girl. And said he was calling an attorney because I am crazy. Well, look who's crazy now. He also had a two opportunities to be physical with her because he traveled out there in December and then took 5 days to "find himself" in February and didn't have any proof of where he had been. He was very secretive. I don't think I want this scumbag. Can people really change? And I don't think he even really fills my needs, to be honest. Do I keep no contact? Confront?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Either he ends it with her or you can decide whether to tolerate an open marriage with him or let him go.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

How do you get past this happening twice? I forgave him once. I think he knows this is not repairable which is why he was trying so hard to end it. He knew that he was past that point, and that if I found out he had no chance. So he tried to juggle both of us. I'm not sure I could ever trust him again. I hate that I have to make this decision.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> I hate that I have to make this decision.


I think the decision has already been made for you?. Maybe just a matter of how long till you accept that its over and choose to move on...


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## SaffronPower (Mar 6, 2011)

So sorry. *hugs*

No use in confrontation if you're going to move on. He knows how he acted and can live with the consequences. Time to take care of yourself and the kids.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Now I'm confused. The best friend just sent me this. WTH?

I talked to *** and from what I can tell she seems to be a problem between the 2 of you and not an actual problem. He doesn't talk to her much and he seems more angry at the situation. Not really sure where to go with him right now after everything that went on with you 2 this weekend. If I come up with anything I'll let you know. As for right now my best suggestion is keep your distance, don't utter the name *****, and don't look for much rationale from him for a while. He is not thinking rationally right now. I'll talk to him again later today.

Okay, now really confused. Do you think H just convinced him otherwise? And it sounds like he is done and told the best friend so.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Hey LNL, I have been in and out lately, so do catch me up if I am missing anything. I tried to read what I missed from your old thread too, so bear with me while I catch up with my brain LOL.

I think that there is a very good possibility that he could not be being inappropriate with this girl. I do think that you never truly healed from the first EA, and that with all his actions convincing yourself he is in another one is what you want to believe so you can pull away. You don't need to do that. There has been enough hurt for you to decide you can not continue in this marriage with him.

If I had to guess ( and this is a big IF) I would say that calling he girl was a horrible idea, and that just proves further that you WERE acting a little nutty. * Not that I wouldn't be either after all the crap he put you through lately*. You do have a seemingly controlling nature, which I know Turnera touched on in the last thread, and you do have a need to force your emotions and needs down his throat. All the letters? Those probably were ONLY helpful for you. He needed space, yet you followed him home and left ANOTHER letter in his truck. He probably felt suffocated. I sincerely, and with all hope that you will still love me after this post, hope that you can step back and see what you are turning into. You are not turning into anyone he wants to be around, but quite the opposite. Read AC thread about the 180 and start for YOURSELF too.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Hey LNL, I have been in and out lately, so do catch me up if I am missing anything. I tried to read what I missed from your old thread too, so bear with me while I catch up with my brain LOL.
> 
> I think that there is a very good possibility that he could not be being inappropriate with this girl. I do think that you never truly healed from the first EA, and that with all his actions convincing yourself he is in another one is what you want to believe so you can pull away. You don't need to do that. There has been enough hurt for you to decide you can not continue in this marriage with him.
> 
> If I had to guess ( and this is a big IF) I would say that calling he girl was a horrible idea, and that just proves further that you WERE acting a little nutty. * Not that I wouldn't be either after all the crap he put you through lately*. You do have a seemingly controlling nature, which I know Turnera touched on in the last thread, and you do have a need to force your emotions and needs down his throat. All the letters? Those probably were ONLY helpful for you. He needed space, yet you followed him home and left ANOTHER letter in his truck. He probably felt suffocated. I sincerely, and with all hope that you will still love me after this post, hope that you can step back and see what you are turning into. You are not turning into anyone he wants to be around, but quite the opposite. Read AC thread about the 180 and start for YOURSELF too.


Now he sent me another message saying he doesn't know and I should be concerned about this girl.  I guess he is in the same boat as me, wants to believe him but all the red flags make it hard to. 

I didn't follow him home on Friday, I waited for him there. And I do regret calling her, but then again, he seemed to know about it awfully quickly for someone who only talked to her once 4 months ago.  I left the letter in his truck at work on Saturday, which is right by the house. I copied it and posted it here. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/283626-post116.html It isn't at all about my needs. I happened to look through my old phone yesterday to the days after he returned from his trip when things went downhill again. And all the texts are about him wanting me to tell him how to better meet my needs. But then when I did that, things got worse and he took it as me telling him he's not good enough. 

I do still love you.  And my actions and such might come off a little controlling here, but anyone I've talked to about this is amazed by my patience and self-control. Almost everyone has suggested way more drastic moves and can't believe I'm approaching things the way I am. I've decided I'm going to move on. It's more than 180. After the emotional rollercoaster of today and being convinced of another EA, then not, I just realize that I'd be just fine without him. So I'm just going to let him be and he can self destruct on his own.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I think the advice you got on your other thread was very bad. I do believe he thinks he can behave how he wants with no consequences.

If you allow your self to be walked all over and don't set good personal boundaries, he is obviously the type of guy who will take a mile. He is not trustworthy and he emotionally manipulates you into getting what he wants.

Then he and others had you believing that your behaviour was the problem, that expecting him to respect your boundaries was pushing him away. What a joke.

You could do nothing as the friend said and wait for him to come back, then allow your self to be manipulated into feeling like the bad guy with unreasonable expectations. Or you could allow your self to believe you are worth it, and that None of what he has done is OK, and that your boundaries and expectation of honesty and transparency and no being friends with exes was perfectly reasonable.

He is not worth it.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Syrum said:


> I think the advice you got on your other thread was very bad. I do believe he thinks he can behave how he wants with no consequences.
> Well, it seems you are right. He does know he's hurting me, but he's being very selfish.
> 
> If you allow your self to be walked all over and don't set good personal boundaries, he is obviously the type of guy who will take a mile. He is not trustworthy and he emotionally manipulates you into getting what he wants. I have to say that he is acting uncharacteristically. This is not my husband. He has really emotionally manipulated me if he is cheating. If he's not, then he could have prevented a lot of this by being more open and respecting that I was uncomfortable.
> ...


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LonelyNLost said:


> Now he sent me another message saying he doesn't know and I should be concerned about this girl.  I guess he is in the same boat as me, wants to believe him but all the red flags make it hard to.
> 
> I didn't follow him home on Friday, I waited for him there.That would be another bad, bad idea. You come off very needy, and that is the opposite of what you want to be right now. Don't wait for him to come home to give him letters. Just completely back off. Go back to that place, where we talked about what YOU wanted, regardless of him. And I do regret calling her, but then again, he seemed to know about it awfully quickly for someone who only talked to her once 4 months ago.  But that is going to come off completely crazy to him, and I wouldn't be surprised if he started saying you were "stalking his friends". You and I know its not that, but if you look at it from his perspective, it could be what he feels like you are doing. I left the letter in his truck at work on Saturday, which is right by the house. I copied it and posted it here. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/283626-post116.html It isn't at all about my needs. I happened to look through my old phone yesterday to the days after he returned from his trip when things went downhill again. And all the texts are about him wanting me to tell him how to better meet my needs. But then when I did that, things got worse and he took it as me telling him he's not good enough. I don't honestly believe that is the case. I think he USES that as a reason to be an ahole to you. Oh, she's never happy. Never mind what HE is doing, its all YOU. That is the game he is playing honey.
> 
> I do still love you.  And my actions and such might come off a little controlling here, but anyone I've talked to about this is amazed by my patience and self-control. Almost everyone has suggested way more drastic moves and can't believe I'm approaching things the way I am. I've decided I'm going to move on. It's more than 180. After the emotional rollercoaster of today and being convinced of another EA, then not, I just realize that I'd be just fine without him. So I'm just going to let him be and he can self destruct on his own.


 I honestly think that you need that. Whether or not he is ever back in the picture, you need to have your sense of self. And he has been pushing you down in the mud for way too long now. I know a lot of people with disagree with me, and I could very well be wrong, but this guy is a master manipulator. He uses his skills to completely make you think he is just this poor guy that isn't ever good enough, when he isn't trying to be good. He is trying to do whatever he wants with no consequences. The trouble with manipulation is that people always catch on to it.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I honestly think that you need that. Whether or not he is ever back in the picture, you need to have your sense of self. And he has been pushing you down in the mud for way too long now. I know a lot of people with disagree with me, and I could very well be wrong, but this guy is a master manipulator. He uses his skills to completely make you think he is just this poor guy that isn't ever good enough, when he isn't trying to be good. He is trying to do whatever he wants with no consequences. The trouble with manipulation is that people always catch on to it.


I have totally backed off. I asked for limited contact in my letter, well he's given me NO CONTACT. I've got nothing left to say, the letter said it all. And my bet would be that he felt like dung after reading it. I forgot to say this, but he was perplexed about how I got her number. He accused me of stealing his phone. No, baby, I can't do that, you sleep with it under your pillow. It's all about me and my kids now. I can't be held down any more. Whether or not he means to, he is manipulating me. I'm sick of the sob story. What has he done to fix this? Nothing. Even MC is too much of a stretch and risk. He can just sweat it out and self-destruct. He'll be the one with regrets, not me.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

As much as I am sad that you are at that place now, I am also happy. Because I do think you will begin living for you and your kids, with him just being an afterthought. I think you should continue with NC unless it is arranging for him to see the children. 

Then we should meet and get completely bombed on really cute mixed drinks  ha ha ha.

Do not let yourself be manipulated. You deserve to be happy, and if he WON'T try to be the man that gives you that happiness, then he isn't the man for you.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DawnD said:


> As much as I am sad that you are at that place now, I am also happy. Because I do think you will begin living for you and your kids, with him just being an afterthought. I think you should continue with NC unless it is arranging for him to see the children.
> 
> Then we should meet and get completely bombed on really cute mixed drinks  ha ha ha.
> 
> Do not let yourself be manipulated. You deserve to be happy, and if he WON'T try to be the man that gives you that happiness, then he isn't the man for you.


Thanks! I really think this is where I'm at. I know I'll be fine and I'm starting to question, for the first time ever, if he really meets my needs and makes me happy. And if he can ever. If this is an EA, I don't see how I could give him another chance to crush me. And if it's a trust issue, then he has a lot of explaining to do, as well as learning how to be transparent. 

We've only conversed via text regarding picking up the kids and calling them since Friday. Even when he dropped them off and picked them up, I asked him to honk. We didn't even come within 30 feet of each other. 

I need to work on setting some boundaries though. I can't have him dropping in like he did today, even though I wasn't home. He ate some triscuits, took the trash out, and did the dishes. But he shouldn't be here. And we need to figure out if our original separation plan is on the table, because I don't want him here eating dinner with us as a family. He gave up the option of a family. He hasn't initiated contact regarding our "schedule". I might have to start a text asking his intentions.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks! I really think this is where I'm at. I know I'll be fine and I'm starting to question, for the first time ever, if he really meets my needs and makes me happy. And if he can ever. If this is an EA, I don't see how I could give him another chance to crush me. And if it's a trust issue, then he has a lot of explaining to do, as well as learning how to be transparent.
> 
> We've only conversed via text regarding picking up the kids and calling them since Friday. Even when he dropped them off and picked them up, I asked him to honk. We didn't even come within 30 feet of each other.
> 
> I need to work on setting some boundaries though. I can't have him dropping in like he did today, even though I wasn't home. He ate some triscuits, took the trash out, and did the dishes. But he shouldn't be here. And we need to figure out if our original separation plan is on the table, because I don't want him here eating dinner with us as a family. He gave up the option of a family. He hasn't initiated contact regarding our "schedule". I might have to start a text asking his intentions.


Ask his intentions? Or maybe tell him how things will be from now on. I'd be asking him nothing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> Ask his intentions? Or maybe tell him how things will be from now on. I'd be asking him nothing!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I need to stop being so nice. When my son talked to him last night he asked his dad if he'd see him Thursday (H's day off) and he said "maybe". I don't get it. Maybe he will see an attorney because he yelled at me on Friday that he was seeing one on Thursday. 

I just don't know what's fair and don't want to make things ugly. I want my kids as much I can possibly have them and right now I don't want him hanging around with me. I also don't think I want him in the house. I was thinking just starting an every other weekend schedule, and he can deal with the fact he works on Saturdays. Not my problem.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Yeah, I need to stop being so nice. When my son talked to him last night he asked his dad if he'd see him Thursday (H's day off) and he said "maybe". I don't get it. Maybe he will see an attorney because he yelled at me on Friday that he was seeing one on Thursday.
> 
> I just don't know what's fair and don't want to make things ugly. I want my kids as much I can possibly have them and right now I don't want him hanging around with me. I also don't think I want him in the house. I was thinking just starting an every other weekend schedule, and he can deal with the fact he works on Saturdays. Not my problem.


How sad and immature. Dismisses his son because it's hard with you right now. Time to man up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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