# Separation of Finances...?



## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I have a question about finances. 

I've been divorced for over eight years and was just married again. I met my wife about 7 years ago and we were great together from the beginning. We moved in together after dating for a few years and have lived together for around 5 years. Our house mortgage is in my name, but her name is with mine on the title. She has two teenage children who live with us half of the time. Historically, we split everything house related (mortgage, utilities, repairs, etc) down the middle and then have roughly paid for our own food, personal items, clothing, etc. Now that we're married, we're trying to figure out how to manage the finances. We both work. Me as a Project Manager and her as a Financial Manager. I make a little over $95k and she makes around $150k with her bonus. We've talked about having a joint account that we both pay into to cover all house and recurring bills, and then have our own separate accounts for personal spending, respective car payments/repairs, insurance, etc. 

My questions is this... Do we make the payment of bills proportional to our respective income and take into account that her kids generate a lot of additional cost for food, water, groceries, consumables, etc? I'm always in a negative cash flow, because I pay half of everything to this point, and she has extra because she makes more. It seems like since she makes 60% of the income and has her kids here half the time, she should pay 60% of the fixed expenses and I should pay 40%. We generally split vacation costs or emergency house repairs, so this seems more equitable to me. Am I being petty? What does everyone else do? Should we just both be putting everything in a joint account, giving ourselves a spending allowance for personal purchases? We don't want to get too much into monitoring every purchase that the other is making, but there's got to be a clean way to break out expenses that's equitable and agreeable to both parties. Again, what do other dual income families do? 

Thoughts? 

PS, We both come from marriages where our spouses controlled the finances and violated our trust, so there's still a little sting from that and we both have concerns around keeping everything above board, fair, and transparent. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If you both put a percentage of your salary into a joint account to pay for utilities, mortgage, groceries etc it would be the fairest solution. 
By the way I hope you’re not paying the mortgage on your own.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Our house mortgage is in my name, but her name is with mine on the title.


oh dear, this happened to a friend of ours. He got stuck with the mortgage while she got the house. You really should have her name on the name mortgage. I would ask for advice as to how to do that from a diplomatic point of view. For example, can she make unilateral decisions about the house or do they always have to be joint agreements. things like that should inform how to go about it.

I think it's a good idea to put in the same percent of salary in an account for fixed and semi fixed (utilities) costs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In both my marriages all the money was seen as 'ours' and not 'his' or 'hers' regardless of who earns what or who inherits what. We always had and have one joint account. To me that is what marriage is all about, 'all my worldy goods I thee endow'. I dont see the point in being married if you are going to keep these things seperate and not trust each other. Oh and BTW when you marry her children became partly your responsibility, you are their step dad, so what they cost is irrevelant.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

My wife and I always kept separate accounts, no joint account. My income including salary, commission, bonus was up to 3.5x higher than hers. Even though we had (have) separate accounts it was still OUR money. We never kept track of who paid what and I can't imagine doing that.

Does your wife get child support from her ex?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Tommy518,

You know there are a zillion ways to do this, right? I mean your proposal for a 60/40 split isn't horrible, but that also assumes keeping "your" money yours and "her" money hers. 

As a suggestion that we are using that I like, we have two joint accounts: and he puts his deposit into one and I put my deposit into the other. We can both see what the other is doing, but we can also track our own finances relatively easily (like "Am I spending too much?" or "Did I hit that savings goal I was aiming at?"). We each have bills that are our own that come out of our own accounts, and other bills that are joint bills that we share. Now in our instance he makes close to double of what I make, but our goal is to make sure we both live within our means, we both do what we say financially and remain transparent, and we both have access to everything. 

As others have said, I'd suggest getting her on the mortgage and "sharing" that responsibility, and then try to two joint accounts method so that both of you have access to both accounts all the time, but each of you can also make sure the other is being fiscally responsible and not controlling the other. I think coming at it from the point of view of each of you individually being able to see your own financial actions, but also the two of you--together as a team--sharing the financial goals and responsibilities, will set the stage for the two of you to trust after spouses that controlled the cash.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does she get child support?

In my opinion, the best way to handle this is that you both put all of your income into a joint account. And then you pay all the bills out of that account. That includes your car payments, insurance, etc. This reflects the reality that your income is joint income. Then whatever is left over after you put at least 10% into savings and paid all the bills is split 50/50 between the two of you so that you both have the same amount of discretionary income.

Right now she makes more than you do. But you never know what that could change over the years. So it's best to set up an arrangement that works regardless of how much each of you earn. Here is a book that lays out a good plan. The only thing I think is missing is the idea of the two of you splitting the discretionary income 50/50. It's sort of implied but not spelled out.

*Smart Couples Finish Rich, Revised and Updated: 9 Steps to Creating a Rich Future for You and Your Partner* by David Bach (Author)

About your house. Interest rates are very very low right now. I suggest you refinance and put her on the mortgage.

Any savings and investments any of you had before marriage is sole property. Do not mix it with marital income/property.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

What kind of financial manager is your wife? does she advise individuals on how best to handle their money? If so, then she's a few steps ahead of you on state law and so forth regarding personal assets. My sister lived in a state that required signed notification from the non involved spouse that they are are aware of the purchase of property. Since ex BIL was sneaking around, it was good that that law exists. Find out what privacy rights and the opposite that married partners have in your state.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. 

Regarding the mortgage, she did pay half of the down payment and has made half of all mortgage payments. We would like to get her name on the mortgage and would prefer to do that without refinancing, if possible. We have a very low interest rate now and have looked into refinancing, but with $3800 closing costs, it didn’t make sense. I’ll call the bank again on that.

She does not get child support. They have split custody. I agree that the kid costs are irrelevant at this point. I agree with the concept of combining our income, but I guess we just have to talk about how that looks. We both have separate retirement funds, and I am still investing aggressively on that, which impacts my net income. I think contributing a percentage of our net income’s to a joint account and maintaining separate accounts for discretionary purchases makes good sense. We’d also like to set aside money for vacations throughout the year, so we’re not as stressed about writing those big checks when the time comes.

I’m not sure about the cars, but that might just be remaining trust issues. I’m a car guy and have had many restoration projects that she has a hard time appreciating, which offsets her love of expensive clothes and shoes, so we’ll have to come to a loving trustful understanding of each other’s needs and loves. I’ve never questioned any of her purchases, because it was her money, and she hasn’t really questioned mine, but it might change if all of our funds are combined. We’ll have to work that out.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Tommy518 said:


> I’ve never questioned any of her purchases, because it was her money, and she hasn’t really questioned mine, but it might change if all of our funds are combined. We’ll have to work that out.


Something that you can do is set a monthly spending limit that you both have to follow. If you're both staying in that budget, it doesn't really matter what you're spending it on (within reason). If either of you want to buy something bigger, save up your monthly budget amount. 

You could also have an amount that doesn't require "permission" before buying. For example, if your wife bought something under $100, $500, $1000 (whatever works), she doesn't have to tell you or have a discussion about it first. If it was above that amount you'd talk about it first.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Something that you can do is set a monthly spending limit that you both have to follow. If you're both staying in that budget, it doesn't really matter what you're spending it on (within reason).


this would probably include anything that has high maintenance costs.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

I guess I don't understand. Is there a reason why the two of you don't just deposit everything into a joint account and pay all the bills from there? What is the purpose in keeping finances separate?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

All money in my marriage is “ours”. There was never his or hers. That I think causes trouble from what I have seen. My sister divorced her husband over the fact that he considered both their incomes as his.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diceplayer said:


> I guess I don't understand. Is there a reason why the two of you don't just deposit everything into a joint account and pay all the bills from there? What is the purpose in keeping finances separate?


He has explained this. Their previous marriages has caused this issue. Their ex’s controlled the money and I am thinking misused the trust placed in them.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

How much is her bonus and at what point in the year does she receive that? What is her base salary or how much does she normally bring home, aside from the bonus?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tommy518 said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> Regarding the mortgage, she did pay half of the down payment and has made half of all mortgage payments. We would like to get her name on the mortgage and would prefer to do that without refinancing, if possible. We have a very low interest rate now and have looked into refinancing, but with $3800 closing costs, it didn’t make sense. I’ll call the bank again on that.
> 
> ...


If you look at your car hobby and her love of expensive clothes as it's to be covered by discretionary income. You both get to blow the same amount on whatever you choose and the other has no say on that.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

ABHale said:


> He has explained this. Their previous marriages has caused this issue. Their ex’s controlled the money and I am thinking misused the trust placed in them.


Yes. My Ex controlled most of our finances and was always evasive when I asked questions. I found out during the divorce process that she had spent and loaned out much that I didn't know about. My wife's Ex was similarly controlling/evasive and got her into a ponzi investment that led to them to declaring bankruptcy and ruining her credit for seven years, which is why our house is in my name only. We trust each other, but those lessons are hard to completely overcome.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

Violet28 said:


> How much is her bonus and at what point in the year does she receive that? What is her base salary or how much does she normally bring home, aside from the bonus?


Base $125k. She's less aggressive with retirement, so brings more of that home. I withhold 25%, so take home takes a hit. We'll probably bump hers up too, as we're a little behind the curve and can afford it if we budget and cut a few expenses. We actually have pretty low overhead and little debt, but $250k gross doesn't buy what it used to. 😐


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tommy518 said:


> Yes. My Ex controlled most of our finances and was always evasive when I asked questions. I found out during the divorce process that she had spent and loaned out much that I didn't know about. My wife's Ex was similarly controlling/evasive and got her into a ponzi investment that led to them to declaring bankruptcy and ruining her credit for seven years, which is why our house is in my name only. We trust each other, but those lessons are hard to completely overcome.


One of the things that is covered in the book I suggested is how to work together as a couple so that you both always know what's going on and work together with your finances.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> One of the things that is covered in the book I suggested is how to work together as a couple so that you both always know what's going on and work together with your finances.


just ordered it. Thank you!


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I had an opposite experience. My ex started maintaining a separate account once she had decided to leave and was doing stuff like furniture shopping for the apartment she was looking for with "her money". A married couple with separate finances makes me suspicious now.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Hiner112 said:


> I had an opposite experience. My ex started maintaining a separate account once she had decided to leave and was doing stuff like furniture shopping for the apartment she was looking for with "her money". A married couple with separate finances makes me suspicious now.


It also contributes to the feel that you're just roommates ...... sharing a bed, I guess. My back gets up as well when I hear the expression "50/50" around the conversation of an exclusive couple.

That's also why my back got up when that guy I was dating said that he could pay something to the rent and I would make a lot of money off of him. Really? Does anyone want to make money off of someone you might marry in the near future?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

I'm curious about how others have divided up finances; I'm in a long term relationship that I could see eventually becoming my second marriage. Right now we're planning to move in together and see how it goes.

I make more than twice what she makes per year, and while I'm happy to help her out and pay more than half of our monthly expenses (I will probably end up paying about 2/3 of everything), I also want to preserve some financial independence for myself for both selfish reasons, and also practical reasons... even if we're married.

Selfish reasons: I want to enjoy the fruits of my own labor and financial success, and don't feel like giving someone who makes a lot less than I do say over how I spend my money. 

I'm generally pretty frugal and manage my money carefully, so it's not like I plan to blow it on a weekend in Vegas, but I don't want to feel pressure to basically support her own personal spending at my level. I can see this leading to a lot of resentment...

Practical reasons: I have a daughter from my prior marriage, and want to make sure my educational savings for her & other long term assets, like if I bought a cottage for summer vacations, don't become "marital property" in the event I do re-marry and divorce again.

If I was younger and it was my first marriage, I would take a far more generous approach to finances, but once burned, twice shy...


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

TomNebraska said:


> ... I want to enjoy the fruits of my own labor and financial success, and don't feel like giving someone who makes a lot less than I do say over how I spend my money.
> ...


To add some context here: my GF has very little money saved... while some of that is due to going into a not-very-lucrative profession, she did travel extensively and live abroad in her late 20's/early 30's, and values "experiences"...

I did not do those things, though of course I wish I had. But I've said to her that "experiences" don't pay for medical and nursing care for our parents when they're 80+... and won't pay for our kids' college (if we have a kid)... and won't pay for our own retirement. I'm also a lot _*MORE *_pessimisstic about the future than she is, and think the attitude that we have another 25 years of relatively stable economic times to build wealth is dangerous; we need to be planning for a much rougher future than our grandparents and parents had. 

We've talked about this, and I think she's come around a bit. But I'm not 100% sure.. SO... yeah, I don't want to be in the position where this doesn't work out and we part ways, and get set back another 5 years financially. 

So I guess even my selfish reasons for wanting to maintain some financial independence are somewhat practical.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

First of all, you probably need to create your own thread. Perhaps a moderator can move it for you.

Secondly, DO NOT combine finances or buy a home together before you are married. I've seen too many train wrecks from people who did so and then split up.



TomNebraska said:


> Selfish reasons: I want to enjoy the fruits of my own labor and financial success, and don't feel like giving someone who makes a lot less than I do say over how I spend my money.


If this is you attitude, you are not ready to get married. Money and money fights are the top destroyers of marriages. When you marry, you become partners and you each get an equal say as to how it gets spent. If you don't want her to have a say in how you spend your money, do not marry her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TomNebraska said:


> I'm curious about how others have divided up finances; I'm in a long term relationship that I could see eventually becoming my second marriage. Right now we're planning to move in together and see how it goes.
> 
> I make more than twice what she makes per year, and while I'm happy to help her out and pay more than half of our monthly expenses (I will probably end up paying about 2/3 of everything), I also want to preserve some financial independence for myself for both selfish reasons, and also practical reasons... even if we're married.
> 
> Selfish reasons: I want to enjoy the fruits of my own labor and financial success, and don't feel like giving someone who makes a lot less than I do say over how I spend my money.


Well, when you put it that way, who wouldn't want to be your second wife?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Diceplayer said:


> First of all, you probably need to create your own thread. Perhaps a moderator can move it for you.
> 
> Secondly, DO NOT combine finances or buy a home together before you are married. I've seen too many train wrecks from people who did so and then split up.


I proposed to her we set up a joint account, solely for paying mutual bills (rent, electricity, gas, water, internet, etc.). We each contribute an agreed monthly amount, and then our finances are essentially separate. 

So far, so good. I trust her, and I'm also not stretching myself financially; if she decided to move out, I could afford the rent by myself, and if she looted our mutual account, the most she'd get is a month or two of expenses. 



Diceplayer said:


> If this is you attitude, you are not ready to get married. Money and money fights are the top destroyers of marriages. When you marry, you become partners and you each get an equal say as to how it gets spent. If you don't want her to have a say in how you spend your money, do not marry her.


Really? I know people that kept some percentage of finances separate after marriage (typically those who married later in life), and while they still have money-related fights, it's not destructive, and as far as I can tell it works for them. 

I'm wondering if it's something like we each keep 20% of take home pay separate, or something like that, for whatever we want. And we can spend that however we want, subject to obvious spousal commitments (like I'm not spending it on strippers).


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@TomNebraska, do not marry someone who doesn't have a similar mindset about money.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TomNebraska said:


> To add some context here: my GF has very little money saved... while some of that is due to going into a not-very-lucrative profession, she did travel extensively and live abroad in her late 20's/early 30's, and values "experiences"...
> 
> I did not do those things, though of course I wish I had. But I've said to her that "experiences" don't pay for medical and nursing care for our parents when they're 80+... and won't pay for our kids' college (if we have a kid)... and won't pay for our own retirement. I'm also a lot less pessimisstic about the future than she is, and think the attitude that we have another 25 years of relatively stable economic times to build wealth is dangerous; we need to be planning for a much rougher future than our grandparents and parents had.
> 
> ...


Last I remember, she didn’t want to move to the suburbs. What happened with that?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Openminded said:


> Last I remember, she didn’t want to move to the suburbs. What happened with that?


We compromised; we're looking in more suburban areas of the city that are child-friendly (we'll have a back yard, there's sidewalks, nearby parks, etc.), but aren't too much of a drive for me when I pick up my daughter and take her to school.

GF also agreed to help get dinner ready on nights I pick my daughter up, so we can eat as soon as we get there. 

It wasn't a perfectly cordial discussion; we had some fights, but generally it has gotten more cordial and understanding. Lately, we've been able to disagree without fighting. I think some of this was normal, learning eachother's boundaries, and getting over past hangups or trust issues we both have.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FWIW, my ex-husband and I both worked but he made several times what I did. For decades, our money was in a joint account and he handled it. All went well until one day he began making secret financial decisions and lying about them. By the time of the divorce, things were a mess. I would never have a joint account again.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

sorry to thread jack. I thought my question would be helpful to the OP's own concerns, but the last comment was a little OT.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TomNebraska said:


> sorry to thread jack. I thought my question would be helpful to the OP's own concerns, but the last comment was a little OT.


You still have an active thread, right? You could just add this to it.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Openminded said:


> FWIW, my ex-husband and I both worked but he made several times what I did. For decades, our money was in a joint account and he handled it. All went well until one day he began making secret financial decisions and lying about them. By the time of the divorce, things were a mess. I would never have a joint account again.


I'm too much of a control freak to let someone handle my finances for me. 

I've always been open about it though (i.e. I gave my XW passwords to all our online accounts, and discussed finances with her regularly).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TomNebraska said:


> I'm too much of a control freak to let someone handle my finances for me.
> 
> I've always been open about it though (i.e. I gave my XW passwords to all our online accounts, and discussed finances with her regularly).


I didn’t used to be a control freak about finances but after what I went through I am now.

I think separate accounts with a third joint account for bills is the way to go.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Openminded said:


> I didn’t used to be a control freak about finances but after what I went through I am now.
> 
> I think separate accounts with a third joint account for bills is the way to go.


I'm thinking, if it comes to marriage, a prenup is also in order.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Diceplayer said:


> First of all, you probably need to create your own thread. Perhaps a moderator can move it for you.
> 
> Secondly, DO NOT combine finances or buy a home together before you are married. I've seen too many train wrecks from people who did so and then split up.
> 
> ...


And if one side had a history of not being financially responsible...? See, what you are saying is idealistic, and you need to be sure that the person you are opening up your finances to, is going to respect that, and understand what a big deal it actually is.

Not everyone that is in a successful relationship/marriage is financially savvy.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

We combined our life when marrying in our early 40’s. There were houses, cars, and kids, oh my! 

I married someone of like mind about money. We added each other to our accounts, deeds etc. I cannot imagine having it all separate. I wouldn’t feel married. If I can’t trust him financially (or he me), how can I trust him to be married too?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

We have joint accounts and couple separate accounts. I've always encouraged my W to have her own credit, financial knowledge, etc.

I want her to be able to be independent if needed in case something happens to me, and honestly it's less emotional stress on me should we separate. I'd want to know she'd be able to eat, and carry on.

I don't forecast it, btw, but if something sneaky ever happens I'm gone.

Hope it never ever does, but it's very freeing to know if I ever have to look back I'll always know I've always encouraged her to be her own person and grow as she wants.


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## Absentminded (Aug 28, 2019)

My husband and I have been married for 9 years, it’s our anniversary today in fact, and we still have our own bank accounts that our salaries get paid into. We did convert them both to joint accounts when we got married so we can technically both spend out of each account, but we tend to keep things separate. 

We tried having a joint account and it just didn’t work for us. We argued more and we were each picking on what the other was spending. The way we have it now we have more freedom to spend our earnings on what we want and we don’t argue at all. Bills are split fairly; I earn quite a bit more than my husband so I pay more of the bills and I buy our food, because that plus where I like to spend a bit more money. 

It wouldn’t work for a lot of people, but it works for us! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Luminous said:


> And if one side had a history of not being financially responsible...? See, what you are saying is idealistic, and you need to be sure that the person you are opening up your finances to, is going to respect that, and understand what a big deal it actually is.
> 
> Not everyone that is in a successful relationship/marriage is financially savvy.


The way it works is that the spouse who is better with numbers creates a budget. The budget contains everything on which money will be spent that month. It should include money for each spouse to use as they please, without any judgement by the spouse. Once the budget is complete, the spouse who created it lets the other spouse look at it and make any changes they want. They may not be financially savvy, but they should still get a vote as to how the joint money is spent. Once they are in agreement with the budget, then they "spit swear and pinky shake" and that baby is a lock, and they agree not to spend any money on anything that is not in that budget. When something comes up that was unexpected, (and it will) then we come back together and agree on how we are going to address the change. This leads to great communication and openness about a couple's money and if you can properly communicate about money, you can talk about almost anything.

DW and I have been doing this for years. After about 3-4 months of budgeting, you kind of get the hang of it and it literally takes less than 10 minutes per month and it avoids any money fights because both parties were in agreement as to what was going to be spent.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Absentminded said:


> ...
> 
> We tried having a joint account and it just didn’t work for us. We argued more and we were each picking on what the other was spending. The way we have it now we have more freedom to spend our earnings on what we want and we don’t argue at all. Bills are split fairly; I earn quite a bit more than my husband so I pay more of the bills and I buy our food, because that plus where I like to spend a bit more money.
> 
> ...


That was my experience with my XW... we combined all our accounts because she wouldn't have it any other way.

She was generally pretty lousy with money and decision making, but would make a stink every so often over what I was spending, insist we needed a budget and she should take care of paying bills. But when push came to shove, she would refuse to constrain her own monthly spending to a budget, and was happy to leave the chore of reviewing and paying bills to me.

In our case, there were bigger underlying problems there, but the financial arrangement didn't help things. Having separate accounts for discretionary spending would've been better.

At my age, and with a kid to look out for, I just can't see combining my finances with someone and giving them that level of control over my decision making and independence. it's particularly difficult to think about doing that when they earn less than I do, and make what I consider to be somewhat selfish or even bad financial decisions.

I don't feel this should close the door on a relationship though... I think all else considered, two people who love and care for eachother can work around it.


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## missus_ashleigh (Dec 18, 2020)

Tommy518 said:


> I have a question about finances.
> 
> I've been divorced for over eight years and was just married again. I met my wife about 7 years ago and we were great together from the beginning. We moved in together after dating for a few years and have lived together for around 5 years. Our house mortgage is in my name, but her name is with mine on the title. She has two teenage children who live with us half of the time. Historically, we split everything house related (mortgage, utilities, repairs, etc) down the middle and then have roughly paid for our own food, personal items, clothing, etc. Now that we're married, we're trying to figure out how to manage the finances. We both work. Me as a Project Manager and her as a Financial Manager. I make a little over $95k and she makes around $150k with her bonus. We've talked about having a joint account that we both pay into to cover all house and recurring bills, and then have our own separate accounts for personal spending, respective car payments/repairs, insurance, etc.
> 
> ...


Never mind didn't realise this was an old thread.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

missus_ashleigh said:


> Never mind didn't realise this was an old thread.


NP. Thread got a little hijacked. As the OP, I’d still be interested in what you have to say. 🙂


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## missus_ashleigh (Dec 18, 2020)

Diceplayer said:


> The way it works is that the spouse who is better with numbers creates a budget. The budget contains everything on which money will be spent that month. It should include money for each spouse to use as they please, without any judgement by the spouse. Once the budget is complete, the spouse who created it lets the other spouse look at it and make any changes they want. They may not be financially savvy, but they should still get a vote as to how the joint money is spent. Once they are in agreement with the budget, then they "spit swear and pinky shake" and that baby is a lock, and they agree not to spend any money on anything that is not in that budget. When something comes up that was unexpected, (and it will) then we come back together and agree on how we are going to address the change. This leads to great communication and openness about a couple's money and if you can properly communicate about money, you can talk about almost anything.
> 
> DW and I have been doing this for years. After about 3-4 months of budgeting, you kind of get the hang of it and it literally takes less than 10 minutes per month and it avoids any money fights because both parties were in agreement as to what was going to be spent.


Indeed.


Tommy518 said:


> NP. Thread got a little hijacked. As the OP, I’d still be interested in what you have to say. 🙂


Well, basically I am not an expert on finances but seems to me that a man earning 95K a year you should never have a cash flow problem. So whatever you are doing right now isn't working for you. An honest conversation with your wife is in order about your finances and both of your expensive hobbies. 

I knew my husband well when we got married. I didn't bring much financially wise into the union and he was already very successful. I made him have a prenup drafted for us, he was very uncomfortable with it, but I wasn't going to give his family any more ammunition to rag on our marriage than they already had. ( I married up, way up.) 

I told him not to be uncomfortable and if we can be physically intimate we can discuss finances like grownup adults and without me feeling hurt, and to get me good representation and relax. 

To be honest, it was a fun process in which I not only learned a bunch about prenups and what I should not get in case of a divorce but also what I do get. I had fun feeling like a big shot and such an adult having this very serious and honest conversation with him in which we had to imagine we are divorcing and trying to split things fairly to him and generously for me. We made what sometimes is a very bad and awkward conversation between two people preparing to get married into a fun learning process. 

So, don't look at this as you complaining to your wife or as having some kind of an embarrassing conversation. Approach this as you both learning how to have another very healthy, mature conversation about an issue that's top three on the list of things couples struggle with. It doesn't have to be a bad conversation or dirty in any way. 

You can do very intimate things naked with each other, you should be able to talk about money openly and trying to understand the other's point. 

I'm not a fan of splitting stuff down the middle once married. I wasn't always as broke as when I got married and lived with a partner and split everything down the middle precisely because I did not feel very intimate about that relationship. I did not see myself marrying the man. 

So, married people should do what diceplayer has said, but also she has children she has to look out for and combining financial assets would mean you take on responsibility for her children and perhaps more importantly, combining financial assets would men you would have to learn to negotiate your expensive hobbies with each other. I believe marriage is a wonderful learning ground in which two people should grow, so I would welcome all the negotiation and learning but some people see that as a painful process of losing their freedom and financial independence.

Bottom line, open the communication with the missus and then take as much time as you need to reach a point of having an honest and open conversation and negotiation about your finances. A good marriage is two people constantly negotiation and renegotiating with each other and growing in the same direction. 

Maybe what you initially suggested will work best for you guys the 60:40 arrangement. But I still see space for you guys discussing your expensive hobbies as those are perfectly fine until you start having negative cash flow problems and then you might want to reconsider how many restored old cars and expensive handbags, shoes and outfits you guys really need?

Edit: BTW, your negative cash flow cannot be only your problem as you are and have been a couple for years now. So, either you both trim your expensive hobbies or neither does. Either you both invest in the best retirement possible or she is grateful you are doing it since the day will come you will both retire...etc 

Making this about what only one of you is doing wrong isn't the kind of conversation I had in mind, although that may well be where you have to start and learn and work towards a more constructive conversation about what both of you can do, to improve your spending habits. I understand 250K combined isn't what it used to be, but also so many people live on much less and the point almost isn't how much one earns but being fiscally responsible enough and being able to openly discuss finances with our SO without anyone getting hurt or aggitated.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

missus_ashleigh said:


> Indeed.
> Well, basically I am not an expert on finances but seems to me that a man earning 95K a year you should never have a cash flow problem. So whatever you are doing right now isn't working for you. An honest conversation with your wife is in order about your finances and both of your expensive hobbies.
> 
> I knew my husband well when we got married. I didn't bring much financially wise into the union and he was already very successful. I made him have a prenup drafted for us, he was very uncomfortable with it, but I wasn't going to give his family any more ammunition to rag on our marriage than they already had. ( I married up, way up.)
> ...


Thanks for the thoughtful response. A couple times a year I do a three month analysis of my spending to see where my money is going and review this with her. Usually the money is going to overhead expenses like groceries and home repairs and upgrades and general maintenance. I tend to not ask her to cover half of those expenses when I probably should. To be honest, I haven’t had a car hobby for some time and I am not spending any money on that. She spends money on clothes, shoes, etc., but I don’t really care about that. She makes more than I do and has that right. I am in the process of reading up on options and we will address our finances and re-organize in a way that is equitable to both of us. generally, my expenses are much tighter because I give so much to my retirement fund. She gives far less and makes more money, so has more surplus. She also pays more in utilities, as she covers water, which is very expensive here, and cable/internet, which is outrageous here. We’re working on getting rid of that as well. Thanks again for your input. I appreciate it.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Have you ever thought about using the Dave Ramsey every dollar app? It shows a very clear picture of spending since you categorize each charge.

It seems like you two need to break down your monthly income and categorize your spending to keep an eye on where it all is going. For example, my husband and I were fighting about our budget a few months ago after he saw I spent $50 at Starbucks over the course of two months. His perspective was all of our money was blown on Starbucks, but the EveryDollar app revealed we had spent $400 over our grocery budget. Insanity!

This app has taken the emotion out of spending (my husband is very reactive in general) and budget discussion.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

missus_ashleigh said:


> Well, basically I am not an expert on finances but seems to me that a man earning 95K a year you should never have a cash flow problem.


I disagree. While $95k is a really good salary, you can still have money issues. He saves 25% off the top for retirement; add Social Security & Medicare, that is 1/3 of his check. You subtract taxes and insurance - it's possible he's bringing home not much more than half his salary. THEN you have all the household expenses and what not.

I suggest they need to each invest a similar share of their salaries and then see how the finances feel.


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