# Staying for the Children



## Brandon Young (Oct 17, 2017)

I hope I'm posting this in the right section. I'm sure I'm one of millions who are currently in a marriage they probably would not be if it were not for the children. I have a beautiful son and daughter, ages 11 and 7. I would give the world for them and sacrifice anything to ensure I start them off with a solid foundation. I've been married to my wife now for 15 years and together for 22. We met when we were 16 and never looked back. Looking back now I feel I was too young and inexperienced to make a decision concerning life long commitments. I now look back and desire the experience of freedom and it's overwhelming me. I fear I can honestly say I never loved truly loved her. I think a lot of my reason for marrying her is the fact hat she came from a fairly wealthy family and I came from a very poor one. I don't think my young mind consciously understood that at the time, but now reflecting I think that was the case. I'm not a bad person, I think I was just looking for security since I grew up in a very insecure financial environment. "i.e. - Not sure where the next meal may come from"

I'm very active and fit, my wife is not active and not fit. I love outdoor activities and she would rather watch television. I'm very sexually charged and she's happy with sex twice a month. The sex has honestly become a take it or leave it for me because it feels like "maintenance" sex. I was very young at the time of our commitment, but I had sexual relations with 14 other women/girls before committing to her, so I know the different levels of intensity and so very badly desire similar experiences as to what I've had with other women in the past. I fear this will definitely lead to infidelity and that will bring another set of issues to deal with. I just want someone who shares similar interests, energy for life, desire to physically and emotionally fulfill each other, and all the many other aspects that define a good marriage. It is very painful to go home every day feeling fulfillment from the love of your children but none from you spouse. Just not sure where to go from here. It would be so much easier if it were due to a highly volatile "arguing" environment, but it's not; it just feels dead. I'm exhausted with it.


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## GatorXP (Oct 1, 2017)

Brandon Young said:


> I hope I'm posting this in the right section. I'm sure I'm one of millions who are currently in a marriage they probably would not be if it were not for the children. I have a beautiful son and daughter, ages 11 and 7. I would give the world for them and sacrifice anything to ensure I start them off with a solid foundation. I've been married to my wife now for 15 years and together for 22. We met when we were 16 and never looked back. Looking back now I feel I was too young and inexperienced to make a decision concerning life long commitments. I now look back and desire the experience of freedom and it's overwhelming me. I fear I can honestly say I never loved truly loved her. I think a lot of my reason for marrying her is the fact hat she came from a fairly wealthy family and I came from a very poor one. I don't think my young mind consciously understood that at the time, but now reflecting I think that was the case. I'm not a bad person, I think I was just looking for security since I grew up in a very insecure financial environment. "i.e. - Not sure where the next meal may come from"
> 
> I'm very active and fit, my wife is not active and not fit. I love outdoor activities and she would rather watch television. I'm very sexually charged and she's happy with sex twice a month. The sex has honestly become a take it or leave it for me because it feels like "maintenance" sex. I was very young at the time of our commitment, but I had sexual relations with 14 other women/girls before committing to her, so I know the different levels of intensity and so very badly desire similar experiences as to what I've had with other women in the past. I fear this will definitely lead to infidelity and that will bring another set of issues to deal with. I just want someone who shares similar interests, energy for life, desire to physically and emotionally fulfill each other, and all the many other aspects that define a good marriage. It is very painful to go home every day feeling fulfillment from the love of your children but none from you spouse. Just not sure where to go from here. It would be so much easier if it were due to a highly volatile "arguing" environment, but it's not; it just feels dead. I'm exhausted with it.


Leave for the children?

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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Some of that just comes from being in a long term, exclusive relationship. 

I was 31 when I got engaged and married and will be married 22 years in a couple weeks and I feel the same way at times. 

Since you do not cite any abuse, hostility, infidelity, chemical abuse, blatant neglect etc etc etc let me pose a question for you to ponder seriously -

- these things of "adventure" that you are pining for; is there any reason you could not pursue them even though you are married?

Is your wife wanting some adventure and new experiences as well? Have you actually talked to her about it??

Is there anything in your marriage contract that is expressly stopping you from signing up for a backpacking trip in Tibet or skydiving lessons or white water rafting down the Grand Canyon?

Does your wife want to join a Book of the Month Club? Would she have any interest in a Meet Up group that meets to discuss recent movie releases or TV shows? 

Here's a biggie - in regards to the stale bedroom, have you discussed or broached the topic of doing things to spice things up a bit? ie Toys, lingerie, role playing, erotic travel destinations, couple's massages..... or dare I say it.......swinging?

My wife and I started swinging at about the 10 year mark and were very active swingers for quite a few years. it worked for us, but it was something we had to really open up and discuss in a very open and non judgmental manner for quite awhile before we actually started dipping our toes into that lifestyle. 

It could be that she is just as bored and frustrated as you and is also wanting to change things up a bit. 

Many here will disagree with me but marriage does not have to be an 'all-or-nothing' proposition. Married people can still maintain personal interests and activities even if their spouse does not share those same interests. 

You don't have to divorce and share custody of children being shuffled between two houses just so you can go camping or watch your favorite TV shows or even have sex with other people. 

Regardless of where this leads you, this is where marital counseling can come in. MC can open these channels of discussion in a safe and nonjudgmental environment. 

I would suggest taking the personal risk and sitting down and having a series of very open and honest discussions about these things with your wife and maybe even pursuing MC before pulling the ejection handle.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

You mentioned infidelity, please be honest in answering this question, is there another woman who has already caught your eye? A little flirting? Anything of that nature? Be honest here please, it will change my advice.

If no to all of the above, how long have you felt this way and what do you suppose triggered this questioning of your relationship "today" where it might not have been there "yesterday?" Or was this a slow burn that is now a blaze simply out of control?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

In other words you have the itch to sow your oats. This is common at midlife. You are at a crossroads in your life. You question all that you have accomplished and feel like surely there has got to be more to this. 

May I suggest going to therapy with a counselor that is past middle age and knows about navigating this period in a man's life. Your pollution is internal. Your solution will be internal as well. Seek guidance before destroying everything you have. It is your life to live and your decisions to make. They will be your consequences to your actions as well. Why not get fully informed before you thread into waters many others have navigated successfully? Male mentors would be very good people to talk to about how you are feeling right now. It is very easy to create a crisis at this time in your life. Don't be a casualty of midlife crisis, be one that another male can seek for guidance as you have navigated these waters and came out the other side without leaving such terrible ripple effects in your life and the life of your loved ones. Your emotions and feelings are magnified at this time. Take that into consideration too. Feelings are finicky and change over time. Mistakes at this time in your life can be disastrous to all involved. 

Don't act on feelings or impulses. It's very common to do this and engage in risky behaviors ( such as extramarital affairs, addictions, to feel better or even to feel something as you feel hollow inside, which in reality is a form of depression).  It is a period of inner turmoil. It's not a period to throw caution to the wind. In other words, don't fully trust your magnified feelings at this time. They are not working towards bettering your life, but quite the opposite.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You are physically fit...

Mentally?

Fourteen women by the age of 16?
A wounded man, you are.

Just end it. Honorably.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You rarely do children a favor by showing them an unhappy marriage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Brandon Young said:


> Looking back now I feel I was too young and inexperienced to make a decision concerning life long commitments. I now look back and desire the experience of freedom and it's overwhelming me. I fear I can honestly say I never loved truly loved her. I think a lot of my reason for marrying her is the fact hat she came from a fairly wealthy family and I came from a very poor one. I don't think my young mind consciously understood that at the time, but now reflecting I think that was the case.


I want to address this passage a little more specifically. 

This is called "Rewriting History." Look it up and learn more about and see how much applies to you. 

The Force is telling me that you have met someone who has caught your eye and made your heart skip a few beats and maybe even woke up the dragon in your pants. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have not actually strayed or crossed any physical lines but it has had enough of an impact on you that it is causing you to doubt your love and commitment to your marriage and that is causing you to rewrite your history and is telling you that the past 50% of your existence on earth has been a hoax. 

I call BS. 

You have loved her sincerely and have been devoted to her and your family and life has been good and healthy and your marriage has been functional. 

It's just that some young hottie has triggered some hormone rush in your brain that is causing you to cross circuit some of the wiring in your brain and now you are thinking that the past 22 years weren't real. 

Rewriting history is something in your subconscious that is trying to justify hitting some other piece of poontang. That is all that that is. It is just trying to fool you into thinking the past 20 years wasn't real and so now you need to hit this other opportunity. 

It is a lie that your own subconscious tries to trick you with so you can chase some other poon. Don't fall for that. 

If you want to chase other poon, that's your business. But don't do it by thinking that the past 20 years don't count or were a mistake.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Look up Andropause or male menopause. You are smack in the middle of it. This is a very scary developmental stage in a man's life. Thread with caution and with mature male help who can help you navigate the emotional storm debris you are about to get hit with.


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## Brandon Young (Oct 17, 2017)

I assume you mean I should leave for the children if I'm showing them what an unfulfilling marriage looks like?


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## Brandon Young (Oct 17, 2017)

It's been fairly slow. I've, that I recall anyway never felt an intensity within the relationship, but what little there was has definitely diminished gradually over time.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Have you bothered to try and improve things? Have you been to marriage counselling? Worked together on anything? Sat down and talked at length about the marriage and what it needs to improve it?

In the end it depends on whether you want to break the promises you made to her, and break your children's hearts. I have seen so many children of broken marriages suffer greatly. The wider family will also be greatly affected, especially grandparents. 

The memories of the many many sexual encounters that you had at such a very young age aren't reality. They were brief moments of passion between children with no emotional commitment.

Now you are a husband and parent and have responsibilities and commitments.


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## Grammophon (Oct 17, 2017)

So, let me sum this up:

You do not love your wife and never did. 
You only stay for the kids. 
You are the shining light of a human being, clearly above your wife.
You are a total martyr, sacrificing yourself to give your children a foundation.
And nothing is your fault because you were such a poor kid.

What an _evil_ wife you have, not putting in more effort in satisfying your bodily needs!
Seriously, since you already seem so very aware of "that other person" in your relationship, do you actually believe that she does not feel how you think about her?

Let me further assume a bit more: 

You put in _at least_ as much time and effort into chores and kids as her. 
You, of course, are the sole breadwinner and she got no job (or one that is not half as tiresome/lucrative as yours).
You already tried _everything_ a man could possibly do (in the limited hours you have, for a reasonable amount of time), but nothing works.

You push all the right buttons! Just *why* does your stupid wife refuse to function properly?!

While being a lurker on this forum for some time, this ^^^^ seems to be the situation of approximately 95% of the men who complain about low sex drive in their woman.
After reading again and again it started to dawn on me.... something is missing here.... I can't really put my finger on it....

Oh, I got an idea! Wouldn't it be neat to get the wives input on this?! 
I mean, if we could look into the way she would describe the situation, perhaps we can find the flaw in her way of thinking and finally make her stop giving bad sex to us!

Crazytalk, I know...


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## GatorXP (Oct 1, 2017)

Brandon Young said:


> I assume you mean I should leave for the children if I'm showing them what an unfulfilling marriage looks like?


You got it. So you either need to turn your current marriage into an example for them....or.....

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## Brandon Young (Oct 17, 2017)

I'm assuming you are questioning my mental stability due to the number of sexual partners I had at such a young age, is that correct? Looking back it may have not been the best decision, but as a boy with much older friends and many somewhat older woman willing to have sex I must say I found it very difficult to turn them down. I'm guessing I'm not the only man who didn't pass up sex when easily found at such an age. Not saying this because I'm proud of it, but, as well I'm not ashamed of it.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Brandon Young said:


> I'm very active and fit, my wife is not active and not fit. I love outdoor activities and she would rather watch television. I'm very sexually charged and she's happy with sex twice a month. The sex has honestly become a take it or leave it for me because it feels like "maintenance" sex. I was very young at the time of our commitment, but I had sexual relations with 14 other women/girls before committing to her, so I know the different levels of intensity and so very badly desire similar experiences as to what I've had with other women in the past. I fear this will definitely lead to infidelity and that will bring another set of issues to deal with. I just want someone who shares similar interests, energy for life, desire to physically and emotionally fulfill each other, and all the many other aspects that define a good marriage. It is very painful to go home every day feeling fulfillment from the love of your children but none from you spouse. Just not sure where to go from here. It would be so much easier if it were due to a highly volatile "arguing" environment, but it's not; it just feels dead. I'm exhausted with it.


Sounds like your wife has become TOO lazy and comfortable with the relationship. Just like many women wish to be continuously courted even after marriage so do some men.

Look either one of two things MUST happen:

1) She puts WAY more effort into you and the relationship; OR

2) You dump and replace her with a more active, fitter model.

I'd consider joint marriage counseling. At the very least sit her down and give her an ultimatum. Either PARTICIPATE in this relationship (ie become more active, lose some weight, no starfish sex, etc.) or you will have to find another partner who is more on the "same page" as yourself. Don't kid yourself, there's plenty of fit horny women looking for a catch out there. (This advice is predicated on the assumption you are doing all the work in the marriage and being a good provider.)

That's IT. Don't overcomplicate it. Put your feelings aside and see it for what it is. Another CRAPPY marriage.

Oh and as for "staying for the kids".... That's total nonsense. They'll be fine. Get 50% custody and be a good dad. 

They'll still love you no matter what. Kid's love, unlike adults, is basically unconditional (unless your a scumbag).


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## Deperatedwoman (Jul 31, 2017)

wow


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, here is the harsh truth. You should never stay married for the children. You should stay married because it is working ie making BOTH of you happier. If that is not the case - get out now.

I am not going to chastise you for how you feel. You feel they way you feel because that is your experience. If this is truly how you feel, then you owe it to everyone involved to get out now. You owe it your wife, who has been with you for all those years - she might be able to find someone who truly loves her. You owe it to your children because they will better off to grow up seeing at least one parent happy, then living life with two miserable parents. And you owe it to your self because, if you are unhappy as you claim, everyone deserves happiness and the only one who can make you happy is you.

But know this - there are no guarantees. So I would seriously consider if what you want is truly what is best for you or is this as Oldshirt has suggested a case of wanting some strange?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Brandon Young said:


> I hope I'm posting this in the right section. I'm sure I'm one of millions who are currently in a marriage they probably would not be if it were not for the children. I have a beautiful son and daughter, ages 11 and 7. I would give the world for them and sacrifice anything to ensure I start them off with a solid foundation. I've been married to my wife now for 15 years and together for 22. We met when we were 16 and never looked back. Looking back now I feel I was too young and inexperienced to make a decision concerning life long commitments. I now look back and desire the experience of freedom and it's overwhelming me. I fear I can honestly say I never loved truly loved her. I think a lot of my reason for marrying her is the fact hat she came from a fairly wealthy family and I came from a very poor one. I don't think my young mind consciously understood that at the time, but now reflecting I think that was the case. I'm not a bad person, I think I was just looking for security since I grew up in a very insecure financial environment. "i.e. - Not sure where the next meal may come from"
> 
> I'm very active and fit, my wife is not active and not fit. I love outdoor activities and she would rather watch television. I'm very sexually charged and she's happy with sex twice a month. The sex has honestly become a take it or leave it for me because it feels like "maintenance" sex. I was very young at the time of our commitment, but I had sexual relations with 14 other women/girls before committing to her, so I know the different levels of intensity and so very badly desire similar experiences as to what I've had with other women in the past. I fear this will definitely lead to infidelity and that will bring another set of issues to deal with. I just want someone who shares similar interests, energy for life, desire to physically and emotionally fulfill each other, and all the many other aspects that define a good marriage. It is very painful to go home every day feeling fulfillment from the love of your children but none from you spouse. Just not sure where to go from here. It would be so much easier if it were due to a highly volatile "arguing" environment, but it's not;* it just feels dead.* I'm exhausted with it.


Sadly the only one "feeling dead" is you! Why don't you ask your children and your wife if they feel their lives feel dead? It will be an eye opener for you to realize that the only one that is extremely unsatisfied in your home is you! Seek professional help as you desperately need it. You are hollow inside dude. You are the one that is in big trouble because depression is pestering you big time. That is why you want to escape this life you built. You are rewriting your life. The depression inside you is magnifying what You Think you are missing. If you don't talk to your wife and only to yourself in your head, you are feeding the depressive monster inside you. If you don't seek professional help to help you and your wife navigate this period in YOUR life, you are going to cause a lot of damage in your life. 

Five years down the road you will be divorced, maybe with someone else and just as miserable as you are now. Your problem is internal; your solution will be internal as well. Quit seeking or blaming external solutions/problems to your internal pollution dude! Own your mess. It is yours and only yours to clean up. Don't change the woman, talk to the woman and try to work this out. Give it at least 2 years of honest counseling. I have a feeling you are heading out the door already. It is just that your foot has you trapped. 

Mark my words and remember them 5 years form now; You are running towards your doom!


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## Grammophon (Oct 17, 2017)

BetrayedDad said:


> (This advice is predicated on the assumption you are doing all the work in the marriage and being a good provider.)


He already made clear that he does not work "in" (or rather: for) the marriage and that he is not a good provider. 
He does not provide (or work) on the thing a lot of people want in a marriage: Love!

Why would she put in any effort on something that feels dead *and* someone that does not appreciate her one bit as a person? I don't see any participation from his side at all.
It boils down to: "She better provides me with vagina in exchange for me not loving her, otherwise I will have to finally put my foot down!"

Has it really come that far that some men choose to see marriage as nothing more than as contract to _some female person_? Perhaps you better invest in some sex robot, I read they now even come with on-demand-turn-on/off personality....


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## Brandon Young (Oct 17, 2017)

Grammophon,

By no means am I a pillar of perfection. I have a tremendous number of flaws, many of which I know, and probably many more of which I don't. I'm just human like so many others on this forum looking for advice, but also understanding making ourselves vulnerable to admonishment. I also would love to know why my wife is the way she is when it comes to building our emotional and physical relationship. The fact that I asked her to go to MC and she has refused has limited that ability. The fact that I have pretty much begged her to just tell me what she needs and she won't has pretty much limited me. The fact that she has been asked to go to therapy herself and has chosen not to has as well limited me. She is a very intelligent woman, and while I do have a higher income she still makes a fair salary of her own. If you have any advice to offer I'm open to listen and if it's something I can use constructively I will offer genuine appreciation for it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

It may be more appropriate for a moderator to join these two threads. It is best to stick to just one OP. You will get better feedback that way. I feel for you, I really do, but it does seem that with your title alone you only have one foot in the marriage and the rest of you is desperately seeking to run out.

Many have stated they stay for the children and many are told you are not doing the children any favors by staying just for them. In other words, the children are a poor excuse for you to leave your foot in and the rest of your whole self out! 

Stop using others for why you feel or do what you do. That is very immature. It is also called blame shifting around here. You blame shift a lot, especially to your wife. You after all married her and not the other 14 ladies. She had something you wanted at the time and she fulfilled. You change your story and bring back the blame to her. You are a huge mess dude. That is obvious. Seek professional help to get your head and feelings under check. Stop blaming others and YOU start doing the work. Grow a pair, you are going to take a firm hold on them; as you are losing it real fast with every post.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

where is the other thread?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I recommend you look into “Mating in Captivity” by Esther Perel, and “Necessary Endings” by Henry Cloud.

Also, “The Middle Passage” and “The Eden Project” by James Hollis.


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## Grammophon (Oct 17, 2017)

Own your mojo is where I would start!

It is easy to let morals take over (afterwards!) and then back down "_Oh, well, of course I got some flaws too..._". 
Look at what you wrote about her in your opening post. 
Than compare it to what you wrote now. 

You may want to think that you do not resent your wife, but you do! And I am pretty sure you also feel superior to her. But you (probably) aren't a bad person. 
That is why you rationalise your opinion about that woman, by finding more and more reasons why it is okay to resent her. 

_Accept your resentment as immoral, highly subjectiv and selfish. That's the feeling you have to own! _

We always assume that we can hide our true feelings from our close ones, but we can't.
Human brains are evolved supercomputers for analysing intention and emotion in other humans, if you so will. You don't just go around hide anger and resentment in your pockets when another human brain is around. We might not be able to consciously access the results of the analysis, but it's there. And it influences us.

The behaviour of your wife that you describe looks for me like A-class red flag *power struggle* boloney.
Before now some peeps happily think: ''I knew it! Those females constantly manipulate us pure men hearts!''... No, that's not what I mean. 
What I mean is that you _both_ are 100% right. It is the _other_ one who is wrong. 

While it is all fine and dandy sending this lunatic partner of yours to the shrink, *she won't go*. 
She will take every opportunity to not be the one who starts to "change first" because in this kind of power-struggle-situation the one who moves first is the one to get _all_ the blame. You basically are staring in each others eyes like freaking cowboys waiting for the other one to falter first.
I bet there are a lot more dynamics in your relationship where *both of you* are caught in this game of power.

*Important*: this is no conscious manipulation. By assuming that you will simply fuel the fire!

My next advice would therefore be to check if and where *you* might be caught in a power position as an immovable object. (I suspect something of that on your "I am fit - she is not"-pedestal).
And then... You win this war like every other war: not at all.
At some point you will either both retreat and count your losses, or one of you will destroy the other and pay for mending in all kinds of ways. Sometimes it is more like a relationship deathmatch.

Just don't start building a wall (I must know, I am from Germany).


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> where is the other thread?


On the general relationship discussion part of this forum?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Grammophon said:


> It boils down to: "She better provides me with vagina in exchange for me not loving her, otherwise I will have to finally put my foot down!"
> 
> Has it really come that far that some men choose to see marriage as nothing more than as contract to _some female person_? Perhaps you better invest in some sex robot, I read they now even come with on-demand-turn-on/off personality....


Oh please..... Sex is just as important for both. I see sex starved women on here all the time. It's not an unreasonable demand to want good sex.

A lot of people always ask, "how do I know if my sex life is bad?" Answer: When you get off more alone than you do with your spouse. Sound familiar OP?

To your other point, let's assume he's as neglectful as she is. Maybe she's fine living in misery. Clearly, HE'S NOT. Nor should he be forced to accept the status quo.

I'd love to see them fix their marriage, believe me, but OP needs to start preparing if she's not willing. And the unfortunate truth is MOST people don't change.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

So YOU made decisions many years ago, that you now believe to be wrong, and your children are now expected to pay the price for those decisions?

Divorce is thrown around a lot, and sometimes it really is the only option. In a lot of cases though it isn't, and it should never be the first option. You chose to marry, you chose to bring two children into the world. Your wife deserves the chance to try to fix your marriage and your children deserve to know that you tried every possible option before ripping their world apart.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Brandon Young said:


> It's been fairly slow. I've, that I recall anyway never felt an intensity within the relationship, but what little there was has definitely diminished gradually over time.


Intensity and excitement and exhilaration always decrease with time and repetition. Heck the first time I got behind the wheel of a car I thought my heart was going to pound out of my chest and now commuting to work in the morning is simply a pain in the butt that I have to do to get the check. 

And the first time I held hands with a girl I had so much adrenaline surging through me I was shaking. A lot of that thrill and excitement was simply due to age and a new experience. 

Yes, after 20 years and kids and bills and car payments and doing each other's dirty laundry, the thrill and intensity are going to fade. True fact. 

But in neither thread have you mentioned her doing any kind of wrong doing or any kind of foul. 

There for this is largely on you to find the enjoyment and meaning and fun that you are lacking in your life. Does that give her license to sit on the couch and ignore you and overtly neglect your needs and well being?? No, she needs to be an active participant in marriage as well. But this is something that both of you need to address and collaborate on together whether it is breathing some new life and excitement into the marriage or dissolving it. 

As I said in your other thread, marriage does not by necessity bar someone from doing new things or exploring new experiences. It doesn't even have to mean you can't have sex with other people. All of those things can be done within marriage if it is discussed and worked on collaboratively and consensually.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Probably half of the kids your kids know come from divorced parents so it is no big deal once they get used to it. It is pretty standard stuff these days. The thing to worry about is that your kids will get their knowledge of marriage from you and your husband. They are smarter than you think and will pick up on your emotions and lack of love. Learning about marriage and relationships from unhappy parents can set the course of their future on the wrong path.

I am married 45 years because I learned about marriage from my loving parents. I learned how I was supposed to feel and how to love and treat a wife. My sister stayed married for her kids until they were 21. She lived in an unhappy marriage. As a result her son is married to a domineering women. He works full time and does all the housework and cooking. When his wife takes a job far away, he has to quit his job for the benefit of his wife. My niece is 32 and pregnant. Has a boyfriend and even though the kid is almost a year old, no proposal. She was dumped by two previous fiancés. She learned her role as a partner from an unhappy mother who treated her dad bad. So she treated men the same way. They stayed married for the benefit of the children but did them no favors.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Sounds like your wife has become TOO lazy and comfortable with the relationship. Just like many women wish to be continuously courted even after marriage so do some men.
> 
> Look either one of two things MUST happen:
> 
> ...


NO the children wont be fine, they never are. I have seen so many children of divorced parents whose lives have been devastated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I merged your two thread. Only one thread on a topic please. You will get better input with one thread anyway.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Brandon Young said:


> I was very young at the time of our commitment, but I had sexual relations with 14 other women/girls before committing to her, so I know the different levels of intensity and so very badly desire similar experiences as to what I've had with other women in the past.


LOL. Stop trying to compare teenage sex - which lasts for approximately 18 seconds til YOU get off while the young girl has no clue what just happened, to married sex. That's ludicrous.

And yes, you were extremely foolish at 16 to commit to _anyone_ for more than 3 or 4 months which is the average life span of teenage romances.

The sad (but almost expected) truth is that you two basically outgrew each other. That's very common. Like you said, it's not as though anything horribly egregious has happened - it's simply the slow painful death of a marriage between two people who have grown apart.

Don't be a martyr and wear your hair shirt and 'stay for the kids.' They're not stupid and will know you stayed just for them. More so, once you* do* get a divorce the second they leave, it just puts a larger burden on their shoulders confirming that you stayed and were miserable JUST for their sakes.



> I fear this will definitely lead to infidelity and that will bring another set of issues to deal with. I just want someone who shares similar interests, energy for life, desire to physically and emotionally fulfill each other, and all the many other aspects that define a good marriage.


One day you may very well have that again in your life. But either martyr yourself for your kids, or don't. Doing it half-assed by 'staying for them' and cheating just puts their security at stake. The ****-storm you'll wreak on your household when you get caught (most cheaters DO get caught) will cause your kids more stress and strife every single day when they see the results of that - and they'll live with the fear and insecurity every day of wondering if the family will break up or not. 

Seriously. Whatever way you choose to go, do it with honor.


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## Loveless17 (Oct 16, 2017)

I'm in a very similar situation. Married 22 years, high school sweethearts and only in the marriage for the kids. I can't see putting our kids through a divorce and then only getting to see them half of the time and dividing our assets would be a poor financial decision for their future. However, our marriage is dead right now. Maybe it will get better or maybe not. We made vows to each other and we'll suffer it out for the kids but we both know we'd probably be happier with other people. We both have changed since we were 15.


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## Loveless17 (Oct 16, 2017)

As one poster mentioned, you could try swinging. My husband would never agree to that but if your wife is more open to trying new experiences, it would be one way to prevent infidelity. You need to both be on the same page with doing so and please be open with her about how important this need is for you. Tell her you are considering having another sexual partner and you don't want to deceive her. Ask for her help in a solution to this desire.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

But children of unhappy loveless marriages don't do well either. It took me a long time to get over the bad lessons I learned about love from my parents. I'm not sure my wife ever unlearned those bad lessons.

Growing up with parents who don't love each other but use the word "love" creates the idea that "real" couples are just business partnerships. That couples in "love" never touch or kiss - other than the required peck on the cheek before the husband goes off to work. That the husband's job is to bring home money. The wife's job is to cook, clean and make sure no harm comes to the children. That its normal to show far more affection to the pet dog than to the spouse.

I haven't lived as a child of divorce, so I can't compare ,but I can tell you that living with loveless parents is not good. 








Diana7 said:


> NO the children wont be fine, they never are. I have seen so many children of divorced parents whose lives have been devastated.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Loveless17 said:


> As one poster mentioned, you could try swinging. My husband would never agree to that but if your wife is more open to trying new experiences, it would be one way to prevent infidelity. You need to both be on the same page with doing so and please be open with her about how important this need is for you. Tell her you are considering having another sexual partner and you don't want to deceive her. Ask for her help in a solution to this desire.


 @Loveless17 Have you actually discussed it with him? He may be all for it.


But getting back to the OP's situation I want to clarify something - swinging does NOT prevent cheating any more than monogamy causes it.

Cheating is a character and entitlement issue. If someone of that character and entitlement wants to cheat, they will do it regardless if they are swingers or not.

What consensual swinging does do is it allows both people to experience the added fun and excitement of taking their marital Sexlife to a new level and get to experience some variety, but do it together as a couple within the marriage instead of outside of it. 

Swinging and cheating are two different things that are polar opposites from each other. However one in no way eliminates the possibility of the other.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Staying for the kids is as good of a reason as any, it's what I'm doing. As long as you're not at each others throats or not speaking, I think it's better for the kids that both parents remain together.

As for swinging, I don't think that's a good option for a marriage already struggling and in a dead bedroom situation. If it's an "arrangement" where both parties basically say they're in it for the kids emotional and financial well-being, and they want romantic love outside the marriage, then I think it's fine.

I'm thinking about asking my wife for a similar arrangement, I just don't want to make her sad. But I stopped being anything more than a utility for finances and emotional support a long time ago, I want a lover.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> NO the children wont be fine, they never are. I have seen so many children of divorced parents whose lives have been devastated.


Mine are fine and couldn’t be happier or more loved so clearly you’re wrong.

It’s not anyone’s job to shelter their children from the reality of the world. That’s why you have 25 year olds on their parents insurance and living in their parents basement.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Work with your wife at fixing your marriage. If she's not interested or it just doesn't work no matter how much you both try then get out. But don't look for an excuse to cheat. The devastation is tremendous -- and I say that as someone who lived through it both as a child and as an adult.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

uhtred said:


> But children of unhappy loveless marriages don't do well either. It took me a long time to get over the bad lessons I learned about love from my parents. I'm not sure my wife ever unlearned those bad lessons.
> 
> Growing up with parents who don't love each other but use the word "love" creates the idea that "real" couples are just business partnerships. That couples in "love" never touch or kiss - other than the required peck on the cheek before the husband goes off to work. That the husband's job is to bring home money. The wife's job is to cook, clean and make sure no harm comes to the children. That its normal to show far more affection to the pet dog than to the spouse.
> 
> I haven't lived as a child of divorce, so I can't compare ,but I can tell you that living with loveless parents is not good.


It's a crap shute no matter which way it happens. The sad truth is that marriages that do last til death do us part and happily in love with their spouse til the very end are the exception and not the norm. I was very lucky my parents were the exception, but none of their 6 kids were. I only know of another couple in my family that had a wonderful marriage and still does 36 years happily married to date! 


So we try to do the best we can when the majority of us fall into the norm!


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