# Do I give space or fight like hell to get her back?



## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Been married for almost 19 years. Together for 20. Been having problems for the past couple years, but able to coexist in the same house with two children. 

Three weeks ago, she asked me to move out so she could have some space. No divorce. No changes. No dating other people. I’m still handling finances remotely. I stay at the house Sunday into Monday to be with the kids and the dog. 

It’s been five days. It feels like five years. Do I honor her request for space and continue like this or fight like hell to make her feel special to win her back? I don’t want to lose her. But I also don’t know whether she actually wants space or she wants me to finally fight for the relationship like I should’ve been doing for years. Don’t know what to do, and feel kind of helpless too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Don't assume she is not cheating. Usually when you read these stories, and there are a lot of them, this is the case. Check your phone bill. Also talk to a lawyer, moving out of your house puts you at a very strong disadvantage if you divorce. I would show up at your house unannounced and see what is really going on.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Check your phone bill online. Separation is usually preparation for divorce or an affair.

You should never leave your home. Big mistake !!!!!

If she wants separation let her move out.

Better wake up!!!!!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> You should never leave your home. Big mistake !!!!!
> 
> If she wants separation let her move out.


Exactly. Why did you have to be the one to move out?


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I’ve been checking both phone bill and social media accounts and no evidence of infidelity. 

The reason I chose to leave is because we set a time limit of three weeks before talking and me moving back in again. This is more of a trial separation than anything.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yep. Never move out.

Fight for your marriage by being a good man and taking care of business. Do not chase her. Do not grovelor plead. Be the best person you can be. Do NOT attempt any kind of physical affection, but react in a loving way if she initiates.

I agree, time to Check all bases.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you set a time limit, keep your word.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What is her problem with you?

Plain and simple, if she doesn't love you anymore, there's nothing you can do.

Divorce and move forward if she ever tells you she doesn't love you anymore.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

She never said she doesn’t love me anymore. I think I’m dealing with a combination of depression and a touch of midlife crisis. We got married young and she never really had a chance to be herself. Went straight from college to wife to Mom. No in between.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> Went straight from college to wife to Mom. No in between.



My wife did more or less the same. What IS supposed to be in between anyway?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

What’s the backstory? I mean what prompted the separation? What kinds of arguments/discussions did you have prior to that or any other issues? It’s important to understand what the separation is for, in her mind, in order to answer your question.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I am a couple years older than her so I was able to graduate first, move into a house with friends, and be myself with the job and have fun for two or three years. She got pregnant with our first child when she was a senior in college, took a semester off to have the baby, got married, went back to college, and started with a job and a career and being a mother. Never had the opportunity to be a reckless adult.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Stiltz420 said:


> She never said she doesn’t love me anymore. I think I’m dealing with a combination of depression and a touch of midlife crisis. We got married young and she never really had a chance to be herself. Went straight from college to wife to Mom. No in between.


Very common. Something or someone has pushed her buttons and reawakened something inside her she forgot all about. She's "alive" for the first time in a long time. Obviously, that someone/thing wasn't you. 

There's a 99.99% chance there's another person involved. It doesn't matter... it's over. Get your ducks in a row and consult with an attorney today. Sh*t's about to go down, as they say. It won't be pretty.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I’ve already done all of the worst case scenario planning in my head. I’m prepared for the worst but hoping for the best.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Stiltz420 said:


> She never said she doesn’t love me anymore. I think I’m dealing with a combination of depression and a touch of midlife crisis. We got married young and she never really had a chance to be herself. Went straight from college to wife to Mom. No in between.


So what? She made that decision of her own free will, didn't she? She is responsible for that, not you or your children. One should make the best of who they are in life, where they are in life without destroying the lives of loved ones. There is nothing wrong with wanting or doing better in life. There is something wrong with being regretful in life and making others pay for it. 

Here's the thing, couples should go to a qualified marriage counselor before jumping into separation. Then if a separation is called for the couple can be guided towards a goal, even if that be divorce. 

You sound like your wife is all in charge of the separation and outcome here and there is no clear goal of R or D. What does she say separation is going to do or solve? Does she even know? 

You are putting yourself and your family in a bad situation if you are letting someone in a MLC drive this situation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Here are just some threads like yours on the board. They all follow the same pattern. I suggest you start reading so you know what you are up against. They ALL follow the same pattern. It's almost eerie how much they do. 

Talk About Marriage - Search Results for wife seperated


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> My wife did more or less the same. What IS supposed to be in between anyway?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Um, finding out what you want out of life, perhaps?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> I am a couple years older than her so I was able to graduate first, move into a house with friends, and be myself with the job and have fun for two or three years. She got pregnant with our first child when she was a senior in college, took a semester off to have the baby, got married, went back to college, and started with a job and a career and being a mother. Never had the opportunity to be a reckless adult.




Sounds to me a bit like a reckless adult...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Um, finding out what you want out of life, perhaps?



And how are you supposed to find this out?
I have done most things in life by now, travelled everywhere etc and I still don’t know what the hell it’s all about or what exactly I want from it. If anything I’m more confused than before. **** just seems to happen no matter what we do and no matter what we think we want.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I just don’t want to sabotage my chances on reconciliation by not giving her the space that she asked for.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

She can have space, but you need to get a reason and a goal? 

DO NOT SIT IN LIMBO!!!

Again, what is the space for? Will she go to counseling to find out?


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

You are dealing with an affair... You just have not found the evidence yet. She is THAT good at hiding it.

You can think we are callous, or bitter, but this story has been told on here 1000 times... Never move out, because when the divorce happens she can try to get sole possession of the house. Get a lawyer and know your rights. You want to get her back? Well get a back bone and protect yourself. That is sexy as hell....


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Here are just some threads like yours on the board. They all follow the same pattern. I suggest you start reading so you know what you are up against. They ALL follow the same pattern. It's almost eerie how much they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk About Marriage - Search Results for wife seperated



Yes that is insanely scary. I have yet to see a ‘story with a twist’. I wonder why that is. Are humans so predictable?
These ‘truisms’ seem to mostly be apparent to TAM readers though - I learnt so much about human behaviour/relationships. Someone should compile a book of all the truisms; it would make it so much easier for people to navigate life.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> And how are you supposed to find this out?
> I have done most things in life by now, travelled everywhere etc and I still don’t know what the hell it’s all about or what exactly I want from it. If anything I’m more confused than before. **** just seems to happen no matter what we do and no matter what we think we want.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


By exploring options. It sure didn't sound as if she had that opportunity. She might have just done "the right thing" as would have been the case back then, but not so much the first option today. Perhaps she had other dreams. If you choose to ignore yours without thinking about them, good for you. It doesn't sound like that is the case here.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Stiltz420 said:


> I’ve been checking both phone bill and social media accounts and no evidence of infidelity.
> 
> The reason I chose to leave is because we set a time limit of three weeks before talking and me moving back in again. This is more of a trial separation than anything.


She is test driving someone else dude. You are assisting her in collapsing your marriage.

She missed out on something? Tell her either we go to marriage counseling to figure out what you are missing or we divorce so you can do whatever you want. 

It's trivial for her to hide an affair from you btw. Burner phone, guy at work, media accounts you don't know about, etc. Even messaging on apps like Words with friends.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

The only reason I believe that there are no transgressions going on is because my children are still in the house and closer to being adults. If she were going out and leaving them alone or if the same person was constantly coming over every day or every other day I would know about it. Their schedules do not afford time for transgressions. I understand that if she is she will make time for it but it would be very didficult for her.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> I just don’t want to sabotage my chances on reconciliation by not giving her the space that she asked for.


OP I would give her her space. Do not pursue, do not beg, do not plead. But be prepared for the end and start now to make arrangements to protect your self. Most often, once a woman decides she is done, she is done. Perhaps she does just need some space. You haven't really gone into much detail about your relationship so who knows. Maybe she hasn't made THAT decision yet.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> I’ve been checking both phone bill and social media accounts and no evidence of infidelity.
> 
> The reason I chose to leave is because we set a time limit of three weeks before talking and me moving back in again. This is more of a trial separation than anything.


Trial separation accomplish nothing. To reconnect people need to be together. That's how it works. Go home. Your home as well. In house separation if you want. Still make no sense.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> The only reason I believe that there are no transgressions going on is because my children are still in the house and closer to being adults. If she were going out and leaving them alone or if the same person was constantly coming over every day or every other day I would know about it. Their schedules do not afford time for transgressions. I understand that if she is she will make time for it but it would be very didficult for her.


Your W may be a walk away wife.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Yes that is insanely scary. I have yet to see a ‘story with a twist’. I wonder why that is. Are humans so predictable?
> These ‘truisms’ seem to mostly be apparent to TAM readers though - I learnt so much about human behaviour/relationships. Someone should compile a book of all the truisms; it would make it so much easier for people to navigate life.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it really is like a cheaters script, it works like everything else in human nature. The hero's journey, the courtship of a spouse, growing up and moving out. Just like all those stories follow the same pattern, here there are like 5 stories all told with different flavors. If you read any of the blogs on infidelity you see how constant human nature really is. It ends up being easy to give advice because you can kind of predict what the person will do. 

I wish we could start some thread from people who have the same stories to try to compare notes to see if there were any warning signs. I bet there were and they are just as consistent.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> The only reason I believe that there are no transgressions going on is because my children are still in the house and closer to being adults. If she were going out and leaving them alone or if the same person was constantly coming over every day or every other day I would know about it. Their schedules do not afford time for transgressions. I understand that if she is she will make time for it but it would be very didficult for her.


Does she work outside the home?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Dis she say what it is that she wants? Or what bothers her? (‘Space’ is not a thing; it’s a code word for ‘I don’t want to hurt you but I’m going ahead and do my own - insert some selfish sh*t - anyway’).
Could you have done anything to prompt this behaviour?


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve prepared a letter for her that explains exactly how I feel and that I’m committed to
Making the changes in my personality (her biggest gripe over the years is the fact that I never looked like I wanted to be there in the marriage. That I was bored with it) and to hopefully end this separation and move forward. Do I give it to her or let it go and try to figure out more information before making the next move?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve prepared a letter for her that explains exactly how I feel and that I’m committed to
> Making the changes in my personality (her biggest gripe over the years is the fact that I never looked like I wanted to be there in the marriage. That I was bored with it) and to hopefully end this separation and move forward. Do I give it to her or let it go and try to figure out more information before making the next move?



Ok now we are getting somewhere. This points to walk away wife.
What is it in your personality that she dislikes?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve prepared a letter for her that explains exactly how I feel and that I’m committed to
> Making the changes in my personality (her biggest gripe over the years is the fact that I never looked like I wanted to be there in the marriage. That I was bored with it) and to hopefully end this separation and move forward. Do I give it to her or let it go and try to figure out more information before making the next move?


You hold onto the letter and talk in person. Handing over a letter is similar to not being in the marriage as your W has stated. Lay it out on the table. No one is perfect. Not everyone when to the library and picked up, "How to be an awesome Husband" by Mr. Married without issues. I know...I was in a similar boat. It was me spilling my guts about how lousy a H I was and asking to allow me time to show the change. You may want to approach it the same way.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I think it really is like a cheaters script, it works like everything else in human nature. The hero's journey, the courtship of a spouse, growing up and moving out. Just like all those stories follow the same pattern, here there are like 5 stories all told with different flavors. If you read any of the blogs on infidelity you see how constant human nature really is. It ends up being easy to give advice because you can kind of predict what the person will do.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we could start some thread from people who have the same stories to try to compare notes to see if there were any warning signs. I bet there were and they are just as consistent.



I can’t read the infidelity stories anymore: I feel physically sick after a while. And I worry I will become filled with so much hatred that I will end up being a serial killer. 




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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Mainly just that fact that I act like I’m just living there. Don’t give a crap about what’s going on. Take my situation for granted. All true by my own right. Crappy hours at a crappy job. Get home late and just want to decompress for a little. Same classic situation.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> Mainly just that fact that I act like I’m just living there. Don’t give a crap about what’s going on. Take my situation for granted. All true by my own right. Crappy hours at a crappy job. Get home late and just want to decompress for a little. Same classic situation.


How much time do you spend together? More like room mates? What is the classic situation exactly?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> Mainly just that fact that I act like I’m just living there. Don’t give a crap about what’s going on. Take my situation for granted. All true by my own right. Crappy hours at a crappy job. Get home late and just want to decompress for a little. Same classic situation.



What IS going on that you are supposed to take in?
What do you do on weekends? (don’t say play video games!)



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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Mostly coexisting and coparenting for a while. No fighting though. Still go places together. No affection.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Any other free time not working is spent taking the kids to their activities. We spend so much time being parents there’s no room to be a couple.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Stiltz420 said:


> The only reason I believe that there are no transgressions going on is because my children are still in the house and closer to being adults. If she were going out and leaving them alone or if the same person was constantly coming over every day or every other day I would know about it. Their schedules do not afford time for transgressions. I understand that if she is she will make time for it but it would be very didficult for her.


She does not have to invite him over, She could be meeting him at work in the parking lot, at the gym, and it could be once a week, and it could be anywhere. It could be a online emotional affair too in the quiet of the bedroom.

I am mentioning this because so many of these threads start like yours and it turns out like 99% time there is someone else.

Move back home. She squawks tell her trial separations are excuses for deceitful partners to lie and cheat. That if she insists on a separation without marriage counseling first then she should move out and you can divorce amicably. Then she will be free to find out what she is missing w/o pesky hubby around to interfere.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Stiltz420 said:


> Any other free time not working is spent taking the kids to their activities. We spend so much time being parents there’s no room to be a couple.


Yes, human behavior is extremely predictable. People are very malleable and can be manipulated to do whatever you like. It's interesting and sad at the same time. With what you describe, you have unwittingly pushed the "leave me and find a more suitable mate" buttons over the years. Some people are obviously more susceptible than others.. but all it takes is someone outside of the marriage to come along and push a button and away they go. Your past is erased. They take on the personality traits of their new partner. "I love you but I'm not in love with you." "I just need time alone to think."

Don't try to rationalize your way out of it. If anything, detach emotionally and look at it for what it is. Your wife is a human and her programming is set a certain way and there's nothing you can do about it.

Read this: *You Can't Beat Emotion. Stop Trying.*


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> Mostly coexisting and coparenting for a while. No fighting though. Still go places together. No affection.


Yes. Room mates. Many fall into this situation. It can be turned around in most cases. However, if a W is done, she is done. Understand both can be at fault. In my case, my W would tell me I was sucking in the H department. I did not listen. I finally figured it out and was able to show my W that I could turn it around. 

You must talk with your W. Own your part of the marriage and it's failure. Ask to allow you time to show your W change. A lasting change. For me a man must be three things in a marriage. 1. Husband(W always comes first. Even over kids). 2. Provider 3. Father. Missing any one of these will be an problem down the road.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

That’s what I’m confused about. I don’t know if this was her last desperate pitch to try and save this and force me to change my ways and really fight for this or a way to get me out of the way


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Stiltz420 said:


> Mainly just that fact that I act like I’m just living there. Don’t give a crap about what’s going on. Take my situation for granted. All true by my own right. Crappy hours at a crappy job. Get home late and just want to decompress for a little. Same classic situation.


Thank you, for you frank description. This explains that you do know why she's had enough. You have not been an active and involved partner in this marriage or family. You dropped the ball. Are you depressed? 

What gets me is that you are asking strangers on an internet forum whether it is worth becoming the man you should have been, considering she might walk away anyway. 

Don't you think you should be that man with or without her? ...or is just too much effort for you? 

Get counseling for yourself. 

Good luck to you and your family


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I tried asking to to counseling. She’s not at that point yet. She hasn’t ruled it out. Thank you for your frankness and optimism. I just needed an outside perspective. We agreed to not to talk to friends about it. None of our mutual friends know yet. Just in case they don’t need to.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I also do have a history of depression myself along with her.


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

I was once pretty much in your exact same shoes. And it did end in my wife divorcing me. 
All I can say is that when I fought to keep her and tried to convince her to stay and prove to her that I can change...it didn’t work. The one time that she did come back crying to me was when I gave her the cold shoulder and made her feel that I don’t really care anymore if she wants to get divorced. 
I know it’s tempting to try and be nice and fight to keep the “old” wife that u think u have...but the probability is that the “old” wife u think u know and want back no longer exists.....


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I understand the old her probably isn’t there anymore. I also understand that is possible to build a new and stronger relationship out of the ashes of the old one. I’m keeping practicality in the back of my head but I’d like to think for the time being that this is fixable.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Set up the counseling yourself. 

If she's not ready, go yourself. Let her see you go.

Get out in front of it. Be proactive. 

Don't procrastinate, like you've done in the past. 

Depression is a killer on a relationship and a family. 

Do it today!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> Any other free time not working is spent taking the kids to their activities. We spend so much time being parents there’s no room to be a couple.


That's.not true. I have three kids. It's still possible. The no affection is because either one or both of you don't want it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here - The Walkaway Wife Syndrome


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> Any other free time not working is spent taking the kids to their activities. We spend so much time being parents there’s no room to be a couple.


That, sir, is your own doing. And appears to be your(W) failure as well. It is a poor excuse to boot. Been there myself. People find time to make the time. Marriage takes work. I'm with you on that. The kids world will not come crashing down if you make date nights with the W. Send the kids to be at a reasonable hour so you and spend time together. You must spend no less than 20 hours a week doing things together sans the kids. Few hours here and there. One day during the weekend. It can be done. I'm living proof!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> That’s what I’m confused about. I don’t know if this was her last desperate pitch to try and save this and force me to change my ways and really fight for this or a way to get me out of the way


Only your W has that answer. Again, talk with your W and own your failings in keep the marriage thriving. Put all defense mechanism down and lay it out on the table Let your W know what you would like to do to rectify the situation.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

And if she’s not receptive to my feelings then it’s time to plan the next step.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Stiltz420 said:


> And if she’s not receptive to my feelings then it’s time to plan the next step.


Honesty. No one can ever go wrong with honesty. Your letter is just a cold sheet of paper that allows your W to read it in her mind that suits her. You speaking face to face is an entire different ballgame. Your sincerity in person can come through much better than a letter ever can. Your W hopefully will see you are serious about your failings, looking to make the lasting change and be the H she alway hoped for. 

You, like me, marched through the marriage thinking all was well because we provided. We are great dads. However, we absolutely SUCK as H. We ask for a chance to correct that. We hope our W will stay the course and allow the chance. Often, W follows suit when H is who she hoped he would be. It becomes an awakening. I


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If my spouse wanted 'space', I would expect them to move out not me. 
My advise move back in immediately to be with your children and pets.


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## Stiltz420 (Jan 17, 2018)

I thought about that but she’s been respectful about everything and I’m trying to do the same.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> Any other free time not working is spent taking the kids to their activities. We spend so much time being parents there’s no room to be a couple.




Ok but why is it YOUR responsibility to make the time? Coparenting affects both parents and neither are at fault if there are not enough hours in the day. Kids do take out a lot of time. Eventually it gets better (so I heard) when they are older and do their own stuff.
Couples should still try and make time for each other but this responsibility doesn’t just fall onto one person.
Have you shut down her efforts to make the time?

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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Stiltz420 said:


> I tried asking to to counseling. She’s not at that point yet. She hasn’t ruled it out. Thank you for your frankness and optimism. I just needed an outside perspective. We agreed to not to talk to friends about it. None of our mutual friends know yet. Just in case they don’t need to.


Still too passive.

MAKE THE APPOINTMENT

Tell her when it is.

If she doesn't go, you go.

Start leading.

Seeking her approval is a formula for divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Stiltz420 said:


> I thought about that but she’s been respectful about everything and I’m trying to do the same.


 Its easy to be respectful when you haven't had to leave your home, children and pets.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Stiltz420 said:


> I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve prepared a letter for her that explains exactly how I feel and that I’m committed to
> Making the changes in my personality (her biggest gripe over the years is the fact that I nevaer looked like I wanted to be there in the marriage. That I was bored with it) and to hopefully end this separation and move forward. Do I give it to her or let it go and try to figure out more information before making the next move?


Dont send a stupid letter pouring your heart out. Your actions are what count. Talk means nothing. 

A letter is cowardly as well


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> Dont send a stupid letter pouring your heart out. Your actions are what count. Talk means nothing.
> 
> A letter is cowardly as well


Share the letter with us. We'll pick it apart for her.

Seriously, you are past the point where pouring your heart out will get you anywhere.

Trust us on this.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Yeah, as mentioned by many, you should not have left.

You think your were being a Nice Guy and doing what she asked? Here's another interpretation. There is always another way to look at things.

You left. She didn't.

That's what happened. All the talk in the world won't change that fact in anyone's eyes. That's what your wife sees, no matter that she asked you to leave. You abandoned her and the children.

Good luck. 

You might really need it when she starts spreading it around how you walked out on your family.

It could happen.


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