# Should I be concerned?



## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

Me and my wife have been married for 7 years. Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.

I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.

She says that he helps put things in perspective for her because he is all about love, acceptance and positivity which she is also so she feels there is an understanding there. He is engaged with 2 kids so I shouldn't be worried right??? Thing is, they are chatting everyday and then she will delete the messages afterwards (because she says that is just something she does with her messages) and goes on like there is no problem at all and we are happy in our relationship but I can't help but wonder if something is developing there.

Am I just being paranoid or should I be concerned? I don't want to be suspicious and truth is, she hasn't really done anything wrong but something just isn't sitting right.

Thanks for your time.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

She's cheating all the signs are there, helping" her put things in perspective my foot"
Don't confront her yet. You need to gather evidence and brace yourself its 10x worse than what you think.
Start here 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Arcaign, she is either in a PA or an EA with this guy. You need to ask that this thread be moved to the CWI forum so you can get focused advice from folks who are or have been in the same situation. Move fast and listen to their advice. Don't dawdle and become one of the hundreds who have posted here saying "I should have listened to you people, you were all correct.."If you don't do this now and listen and heed you will lose your wife if it is not too late....


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

She may just be confiding in a friend, but I can see why you would feel awkward about it.

I suggest you take the line that if she is having discussions with a third party about your relationship you would prefer it be a proper professional counsellor, or with you, or if she does want to confide in a friend that it be a female friend, or that she at least shows you the conversations she has had with this man.

I've had various online conversations with men about my relationship to gain other perspectives (which my husband does not know about) BUT they are all men who I do not know in real life, all of whom live far away from me (mostly overseas) and I see them mainly as an extension of the likes of TAM


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

The thing is, she isn't being suspicious at all and what's even more interesting, is that our relationship has never been better. We're actually getting along now and enjoy each others company. We have had our problems in the past (financial, jobs etc) that really put a strain on the relationship but we came out of it together.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Then spy on her, the fact that she is deleting the messages after you asked her about it, is a red flag. Install a key logger on the pc, VAR her car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

It's called an "emotional betrayal". She has pretty much checked out with you and in with him.

Is it "cheating"? 

Yes.

Should you be concerned?

Only if you want some chance of continuing your relationship.

What to do?

1) She must archive up those texts and have no more contact with him. If she refuses, kiss your relationship goob by.

2) His finace needs to be told about their relationship. She plays a part in all this as well.

Lastly, try working on you. Making yourself a better person for the relationship and developing your own life.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> I don't want to be suspicious *and truth is, she hasn't really done anything wrong* but something just isn't sitting right.


She hasn't done anything wrong!?!?
You need to get a grip here and fast She has done EVERYTHING wrong 
Showing you nil respect




Arcaign said:


> Me and ......I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.
> 
> ...... because he is all about love, acceptance and positivity which she is also so she feels there is an understanding there. .......Thing is, they are chatting everyday and then she will delete the messages afterwards (because she says that is just something she does with her messages) and goes on like there is no problem at all ........ but I can't help but wonder if something is developing there.
> 
> ...


 You trust her, love her, adore her and if you pull your head out fast you will realise she is crapping al over you, and your marriage, whilst you think the relationship "has never been better"

Open your eyes my friend. the shvt is not about to hit the fan it's already hit it and you will need to get your head together to deal with it.

Who is he ? expose him her and explode it all - that's they only way you'll stop it. it's already gone way down the line
He's engaged with two kids is he - Well you can rip that all up in about ten seconds flat so he never comes near your wife again - tell his fiance, today. If, as she says, he's all about "love positivity acceptance" and the rest of that drivel as he attempts to bed your wife, you'll soon find out

Sorry but this is all much worse than you think

Good luck with it


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Then spy on her, the fact that she is deleting the messages after you asked her about it, is a red flag. Install a key logger on the pc, VAR her car.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately it's on her phone


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Contact his fiance and let her know what is going on. Your W is violating boundaries for a healthy marriage and you are in trouble if you don't stop the behavior now and start addressing the fallout from it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Ask her to stop deleting the text, her reaction is key. How many text are we talking about? Any unnacoutned time? Late work,? New undies? New sex positions? Does she dressed better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

I have to ask... and I'm not trying to sound like I'm in denial but are we jumping to conclusions a little? Could it simply be a friend she is confiding in? Is it wrong to have a guy friend? I have girlfriends that I text (100% innocent) I just don't want to start a sh*t storm if there really isn't anything going on.

I don't know what the messages are about. Could be anything from hows the weather to the worse case scenario.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

> she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.


This is a non sequitur. She either wants to "focus on" your "relationship to make it work", or she doesn't. If she wants that, then she cannot be "confused" about what she wants.

Lies are being told here.



> while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.


Not hiding the "fact", but hiding the details of the fact, is the practice of "trickle-truth". Trickle truth is practiced by ADULTERERS, criminals, con-men, and politicians.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck.... guess what?

You can "spin" it as if it's a swan, but it will lay duck eggs, and hatch ducks.



> I don't know what the messages are about. Could be anything from hows the weather to the worse case scenario.


Well, I can guarantee it ain't about the weather.



> are we jumping to conclusions a little?


Yes. We are. And, that is because we, at a point in our past, tried not to "jump to conclusions", and we didn't, and guess what? The conclusions we would have "jumped to", if we allowed ourselves to jump to them, could have prevented full-blown affairs from starting.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> The thing is, she isn't being suspicious at all and what's even more interesting, is that our relationship has never been better. We're actually getting along now and enjoy each others company. We have had our problems in the past (financial, jobs etc) that really put a strain on the relationship but we came out of it together.


If it walks like a duck,
Quacks like a duck,
Poops like a duck,
Doesn't matter how gracefully she does these things,
It's still a duck.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> Me and my wife have been married for 7 years. Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.
> 
> I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.
> 
> ...


That right there is a bunch of baloney. Think about it. Another man (that you don't know) is giving your wife marital tips and support? Do you honestly believe that he has *your* best interests in mind when he chats it up with your wife?

Yes, she has done something wrong. She is confiding her problems to another man, not you. Think about that. Then she deletes the chats? So you will never know the content? She gets to keep her secret correspondence with a man who is not her husband?

Yes, you should be concerned. She is emotionally and secretly involved with another man outside of your marriage and you do not know this man. He is not a friend of the marriage.

Be suspicious. You have every right to be concerned about this. Her involvement with this OM is a threat to your marriage.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

This is what you wrote: "she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.

I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder."

You need to check her phone logs and count how many messages a day are being sent. Also time and length of phone calls. hen compare to texts and calls between the two of you.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Because she is texting right in front of you you need to look for a burner phone. This has happened here man many times before.


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

Unfortunately the messages are being done on Facebook.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

then hack into her Facebook account


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> I have to ask... and I'm not trying to sound like I'm in denial but are we jumping to conclusions a little? Could it simply be a friend she is confiding in? Is it wrong to have a guy friend? I have girlfriends that I text (100% innocent) I just don't want to start a sh*t storm if there really isn't anything going on.
> 
> I don't know what the messages are about. Could be anything from hows the weather to the worse case scenario.


Yes it is wrong to have an emotional betrayal with a person of the opposite sex. 

Tell you what...

Experss your concerns and ask to see all texts and offer to share all yours. If she refuses, then you know there is a problem deeper than she is willing to admit. A successful relationship MUST have transparency in things like this.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Arcaign said:


> I have to ask... and I'm not trying to sound like I'm in denial but are we jumping to conclusions a little? Could it simply be a friend she is confiding in? Is it wrong to have a guy friend? I have girlfriends that I text (100% innocent) I just don't want to start a sh*t storm if there really isn't anything going on.
> 
> I don't know what the messages are about. Could be anything from hows the weather to the worse case scenario.


Thats why you need to find out. If there is nothing to hide, she would not be deleting her messages.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> Unfortunately the messages are being done on Facebook.


There is one thing that lot of people in your position do (and it's through fear of finding what you deep down know is happening )
which is to not 'innocently' confront

Look you can say 'Babe I'm deeply concerned about this situation and it would go a long way to my feeling a lot better about us if you would not mind me looking at all your phone, email, facebook, etc etc records - it may well be me just being paranoid but if you have nothing to hide you could show me all of it *now* just to ease my mind.

If of course there is nothing to hide she will happily show you anything and understand why you feel like this and move on positively 

Any other reaction delay etc will tell you sadly another story

You can go vars spying etc etc but frankly if she has nothing hiding in her locker she will be up front and happy to please you (and that means don't let her get flustered, 'need' to go to the toilet (with her phone) to get herself 'sorted out' )

It's actually a lot more simple that many people realize


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

Headspin said:


> There is one thing that lot of people in your position do (and it's through fear of finding what you deep down know is happening )
> which is to not 'innocently' confront
> 
> Look you can say '*Babe I'm deeply concerned about this situation and it would go a long way to my feeling a lot better about us if you would not mind me looking at all your phone, email, facebook, etc etc records - it may well be me just being paranoid but if you have nothing to hide you could show me all of it now just to ease my mind.*
> ...




That's good! Maybe its just me, but I find many are so quick to jump to conclusions without taking the time to really think about the situation. I'm not saying I disagree with them but I think there is a course to every action that doesn't involve accusations and immediate blame.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Arcaign said:


> Unfortunately the messages are being done on Facebook.


Keylogger time.


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Keylogger time.



How would I do that on an Galaxy S3?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Arcaign said:


> How would I do that on an Galaxy S3?


Try spybubble. I hear it is pretty good
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canjad80 (Oct 31, 2011)

Arcaign said:


> That's good! Maybe its just me, but I find many are so quick to jump to conclusions without taking the time to really think about the situation. I'm not saying I disagree with them but I think there is a course to every action that doesn't involve accusations and immediate blame.


It's not your imagination. A lot of people on this forum have been burned by infidelity, so they see things through that lens. It's good to be aware of the signs of an affair, but there's no need to jump straight to that conclusion.

You know the whole picture. We only know what you've shared with us.

If she's truly invested in working on your marriage she should have no problem being transparent with you about her chats with this co-worker. I'm someone who has always had opposite sex friends, but if a spouse/partner comes to me with a concern about my relationship with a male friend I'm always going to listen. If she respects you and your marriage, she will respect your concerns.

If she responds defensively or in a way that seems odd to you, then I think you have reason to take things further. Frankly, if my partner jumped straight to spying on me before sitting down and having an adult discussion with me, they wouldn't be my partner for much longer.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> Me and my wife have been married for 7 years. Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.
> 
> I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.
> 
> ...


Read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

Do you chat everyday outside of work with a female co-worker?

You see co-workers are not real friends in most cases. They are co-worker friends & when the common thread - work ends, the friendship usually ends. Once in awhile, a real friendship will develop in two people that have "common interests" that extend beyond work.

Discussions about "love, acceptance & positivity" is not enough of a common interest on which to build a friendship & when we factor in her questioning your marriage, it appears that we have an EA brewing. Your wife may not even be aware that she is an EA. The fact that the OM is engaged means nothing.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Two things jump out at me. First is that you say the guy is engaged and has two kids. That proves one thing. He has a penis and he's used it at least twice that we know of. So being in a relationship and two kids means squat. If the messages they send each other are harmless, then why delete them? 

Second thing. You said you text women friends. Fine, but do you hide the messages or delete them. If your wife asked to see them would you show them to her? If the answer is yes because you have nothing to hide then she should be just as forthcoming and show you the texts that she's having with this guy. If she continues to delete and not show you, then you just might have a problem. Long and the short of this is "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" No deleting and if she does then let her know she's walking on thin ice and it's starting to crack.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Both of my WH's EA OW he was "helping" or being "helped" . They would discuss their relationship/marriages/lives and be supportive. All fine, except then the mad emailing/texting/phone calls/secret mail box starts and they start hiding what they are doing and, eventually you learn that , of course, they took it to the next level. They were "in love".

In my WHs case, he never met them, but he felt , at first, justified in his relationship as they were helping each other gain perspective. But, of course they were not. They were really fueling each other's egos and what they were supporting was each others EA and deceit.

Innocent texts do not get immediately deleted. The one's I see now on my H's phone are innocent, business, or family texts. And they stay there a long time.

So, yes, you should be concerned.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arcaign said:


> Me and my wife have been married for 7 years. Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.


This is one of the variants of the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech. This is so common for spouses who are in the process of checking out of a marriage that we have given it its own acronym (ILYBINILWY).

Don't ignore this! It means your marriage is at DEFCON 1. I know you want to think that you're getting along great and the sex is good, etc. But this is your wife's way of giving you a little bit of advanced warning that it's all falling apart on your head.



> I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.


Not surprising. When a woman gives her husband the ILYBINILWY speech, it means that she is interested in another man. Always. It doesn't mean that she's slept with him, or is planning to in the short term. But it does mean that she finds another man more interesting than she finds you.



> He is engaged with 2 kids so I shouldn't be worried right???


Right. Married and engaged people NEVER break their commitments and cheat. 



> Thing is, they are chatting everyday and then she will delete the messages afterwards (because she says that is just something she does with her messages) and goes on like there is no problem at all and we are happy in our relationship but I can't help but wonder if something is developing there.


There are three legitimate reasons for deleting messages frequently. First, your phone is so awful and limited on memory that you can't store any logs and must frequently purge your messages. My phone is like that. However, not even I delete messages as soon as I send them. That's tedious. I wait a week or two to purge my phone. Second, she is so anal-retentive about her messages being organized that she must delete them on an ongoing basis. Third, she has something to hide. Does she delete the messages to her family and other friends, or is it just this guy?



> Am I just being paranoid or should I be concerned? I don't want to be suspicious and truth is, she hasn't really done anything wrong but something just isn't sitting right.


You're right to worry. We've seen this many, many times and your wife's behavior is typical. I know that you believe she's morally pure and would never, ever betray you. Well, guess what. She's just human like the rest of us. She can get a crush on a coworker just like millions of other people do. And she can cheat on you just like millions of other people have cheated on their spouses.

You shouldn't confront her now. You don't know anything. And if you make her suspicious when you don't have evidence, she will likely take her affair underground.

You should put spyware on her phone so that you can read her messages. People frequently use the privacy of their cars to talk to their affair partners. You can put a voice-activated recorder under her seat (use velcro) to record her side of the conversation. Many people have been busted that way.

If she's innocent and simply messaging a friend too much, then tell her that you want to set better boundaries. If she's not innocent, then you have to decide what course of action do you want to take. Do you want to end her affair and stay married to her? Do you want to divorce? Do you want to accept her affair and have an open marriage? Put some thought into it.

And exposing the affair to her friend's fiance is a very good way to help end it from the other end. Most affair partners, when forced to choose, will not choose the affair. Most will throw their affair partner under the bus and run back to their wives/girlfriends.

Good luck.


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> This is one of the variants of the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech. This is so common for spouses who are in the process of checking out of a marriage that we have given it its own acronym (ILYBINILWY).
> 
> Don't ignore this! It means your marriage is at DEFCON 1. I know you want to think that you're getting along great and the sex is good, etc. But this is your wife's way of giving you a little bit of advanced warning that it's all falling apart on your head.
> 
> ...


She deletes all messages except mine.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arcaign said:


> She deletes all messages except mine.


That's less suspicious than deleting only his messages. However, other red flags remain. I suggest you spend two weeks investigating her. Put spyware on her phone. Watch her and be wary. If there's nothing you're concerned about, then let it go, or just tell her that you want her to have clearer boundaries with other men, including him, and stop snooping. If you find something, then come back and make a plan.

Good luck.


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## Arcaign (Aug 12, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> That's less suspicious than deleting only his messages. However, other red flags remain. I suggest you spend two weeks investigating her. Put spyware on her phone. Watch her and be wary. If there's nothing you're concerned about, then let it go, or just tell her that you want her to have clearer boundaries with other men, including him, and stop snooping. If you find something, then come back and make a plan.
> 
> Good luck.



So here's the thing. I have female friends, I've texted them in the past with nothing to hide. Ok, yes, she has said that she is confused but wants to work on us. I can't jump to conclusions when I have done it (innocently) and when she isn't exhibiting any signs of suspicion. She doesn't work late (infact has the summer off with our kids) she isn't secretive, she doesn't go out at night... She literally does nothing.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Two in a marriage is good. Three in a marriage is too crowded. She is just friends with this guy? I have heard that before. You already had the suggestion to read "not just friends". I would tell her you want to read all of their emails. You can get the emails from the service provider, but you may have to get her permission, if the phone is not in your name. Your wife may be checked out of your marriage already, and you are waaayyyyy behind her. I would tell her to stop all contact with her lover.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arcaign said:


> So here's the thing. I have female friends, I've texted them in the past with nothing to hide.


It all depends on the context. If you text your girlfriends once a week about innocent things, and you're happy with your wife and your marriage, then it's no big deal. If you text one girlfriend many times a day, and you're confused about your wife and your marriage, and your girlfriend just "gets you," then it's a big deal.



> Ok, yes, she has said that she is confused but wants to work on us.


This is the biggest red flag that you're simply glossing over. Women don't suddenly become confused about their marriage for no reason. Women become confused about their marriage when another man enters the picture and captures their interest. Your wife isn't saying that she might not want to be with you. She's saying that she might rather be with him.



> I can't jump to conclusions when I have done it (innocently) and when she isn't exhibiting any signs of suspicion. She doesn't work late (infact has the summer off with our kids) she isn't secretive, she doesn't go out at night... She literally does nothing.


Why are you so quick to dismiss your suspicion? She is behaving suspiciously. Texting another man frequently while telling you that she might want out of your marriage is a HUGE RED FLAG!!!

Don't just dismiss this because you haven't found any new lingerie yet. You need to investigate her. Best case scenario is that you spend a couple of weeks and find nothing and your mind is at ease. Worst case scenario is that she is cheating on you and you will find out. A likely scenario is that she is gearing up for an affair, but hasn't slept with the guy yet, and you will have an opportunity to stop it cold. If you delay investigating her, you are giving him more time to seduce your wife. Don't do that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Arcaign said:


> Me and my wife have been married for 7 years. Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not. She claims that she is still in love with me and very attracted to me and wants to put all negativity aside and really focus on our relationship to make it work.
> 
> I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.
> 
> ...


Well, you should be concerned. After 7 years and she sorta kinda isn't sure about this whole marriage deal? :wtf:

And yes, maybe that guy is on the level and would not risk his relationship with his missus and kids for a bit on the side.

But! Some of the men your wife will meet and will chat with will not be so trustworthy and they may well be after a bit on the side.

Counselling is an option. *And she needs to be snapped out of her sliding toward infidelity. *


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

The people here have seen this before. 

The reason you are here is your gut is telling you to be worried and your gut is most likely right. You need to be worried and you need to investigate. 

Your texting your female friends might be innocent just as hers might be, but the escalating level of communication can work itsef into bigger things really quickly and it's not you saying you aren't keen on the marriage. 

At the minimum she is taking her emotional needs away from the marriage and giving them to him and after her emotions are there you can guess what happens next. 

This is exactly what players do as they bond emotionally in order to get into married chicks pants.

I wonder how the engaged guy's wife would feel about their constant chatting???? How do you feel with her sharing your marriage issues and her fears with him instead of you? 

If it's innocent then you can let her go on with it and if it isn't you can do something to try to stop it. 

You need to see what they are saying in those texts that are causing her to doubt her marriage. Spybubble on the phone, Keylogger at home and a VAR in her car would be wise. I realize it seems drastic and dishonest but verifying she is actually innocent and being honest OR killing this early is the best chance you have of making your marriage survive. 

Or do nothing.... and wait for the disaster that is likely to follow. 

Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

OP, I know it's hard to read these responses, you don't have to believe us, we don't know you. But you came here for a reason. Spenda few hours on this site reading and you will see how blind and in denial people are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Standard advide. I copy paste it cause its just too damn long. You sound like one of the recent posters. He VAR the car. Her GNO was a meetup.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list of cheating apps to look for. 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


Edit: Keylogger will get you onto her FB if its on a comp. If not get her sloppy drunk and snoring then look inside her phone after she falls asleep. Do this AFTER getting her phone password.

BTW DO THIS NOW. It MIGHT not be physical yet. about 35% chance.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Arcaign said:


> Just recently, she has mentioned that she doesn't know if she has mentioned that she is confused about what she wants in terms of being married or not.





Arcaign said:


> I have come to realize that she has been instant messaging a guy that she works with and while she doesn't hide that fact, there are things that make me wonder.
> 
> She says that he helps put things in perspective for her because he is all about love, acceptance and positivity which she is also so she feels there is an understanding there.





Arcaign said:


> Thing is, they are chatting everyday and then she will delete the messages afterwards


 The above tells me that she is in at least an emotional affair (EA) with this other man (OM). An EA is cheating plain and simple. Google emotinal affair to learn more about how dangerous this is to your marriage. Also read the book "Not Just Friends" today. As you will see when you research, an EA is cheating, so be worried and get mad.

She should not be talking to another man about your marriage. This is a violation of your trust. Also, when a man goes after a married woman they always claim to want to be just friends. It is part of the script. Their goal is to earn her trust and to get her to start questioning her marriage before they show their true intent. To see how just on script this is, Google "how to pickup on married women”. Your wife’s OM is doing exactly what is taught online on how to seduce a married women. These sites will make you sick. Typical is one site titled "How to Pick Up Married Women with Little to No Effort" that said “It is essential that she first accepts you as a friend; later on in your plans, you will have to have her trust to make comments and give opinions about her relationship. If the woman thinks that you are only there to seduce her, she will not take any value in what you have to say. After you have a successful friendship established, you will need to develop it further into a one of the girls bonds; this way she can trust you enough to tell you about the problems she is having in her relationship.” It goes on to say “No one is perfect, especially not her man. Bring to her attention all of his negative characteristics. Bring up relationships during conversations and discuss it in general; pet peeves and such. This will allow her to talk about the things that bother her in her relationship. You will be able to kill three birds with one stone by letting her name the flaws about her man and the relationship they have. Be the good listener and don't add your criticisms; you don't want to seem like a snake. Use what she says and amplify them and in no time, you and her will be on the same page.”

What is most troubling is that she has given the advantage to the OM in that he knows private details about her relationship with you, and you know very little about her relationship with him since she deletes all their messages. They are the couple keeping secrets from you, yet she shares your secretes with him. 

You must go strong in demanding immediate full no contact with this OM. You must also demand full mutual transparency without complaint which includes all passwords and an agreement to delete nothing. You must be willing to end the marriage to have a chance a marriage worth saving. She may call your bluff, so you must be willing to file and mean it. The longer that you let them stay in contact, the less likely that you will win.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> This is the biggest red flag that you're simply glossing over. Women don't suddenly become confused about their marriage for no reason. Women become confused about their marriage when another man enters the picture and captures their interest. Your wife isn't saying that she might not want to be with you. She's saying that she might rather be with him.



I don't necessarily agree with the wording of this. Women can become confused with their marriage for other reasons than another man. I agree that this IS the case for THIS situation, but to blanket it that way is unfair. If there are other issues going on between spouses, one or the other can become confused about their standing without another person being involved.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I dont normally reply to any of the threads about suspected or confirmed infedility. Mostly because, luckily, my experience there has been very limited and I feel like that makes me unqualified to chime in most of the time. 

However I wanted to share a personal experience with this type of thing. 

I was in a long term relationship for four years before I met my H. I had lots of opposite sex friends that I talked to frequently and so did my BF. No big deal. One of the guys I talked to moved out of state and we continued keeping in touch online. As my relationship got a little stale, I started talking to this guy more and more. It was always innocent. We talked about movies, music, mutual friends, jobs, and occasionally as a small side topic our relationships. It was nothing that I thought much about. Except that slowly over time our communication increased. And I found myself sort of not telling my BF just how often I talked to this guy. We both agreed opposite sex friends were no big deal and he knew we kept in touch. So there wasnt any real deception involved. 

Until suddenly there was. I would get online as soon as I returned home from my BFs house thinking "oh I just want to quickly tell OM about this one funny thing that happened today". Then it evolved into nightly chats till 3am. Then it evolved into feeling detached from my BF and preferring my time spent talking to the other guy than going over my BFs house. I would catch myself hanging out with my BF watching the clock until it was a reasonable time for me to go home and talk to my friend. 

Eventually all at once everything imploded. My friend confessed he had feelings for me and that he wanted to come back to my state to see me. I panicked and held him off. In the same week my BF told me that my online relationship made him uncomfortable and accused me of cheating. 

I thought he was being crazy. I was so naive I didnt know there was a term for it...emotional affair. I really thought that what I was doing was no big deal. Until I realized it was detracting from my relationship with my BF and that I wasnt 100% comfortable with my BF knowing the extent of how much we talked. He knew we talked frequently but didnt know it was every night till 3am for example. 

My relationship ended soon after that...there were other problems but that was the icing on the cake. 

I shared this with you because it may be possible that she truly doesnt understand how her relationship is affecting you or that it may be inappropriate. If you think its pissible that she is naive, you should educate her. 

If she means well, she will either show you she has nothing to hide or she will cut the relationship back to something that you can be happy with. 

Its fine to have friends but your primary emotional relationship should be with each other. Women have a strong need for emotional connection and fulfillment and its easy to let a friendship get carried away when you start getting that type of attention from someone other than your H. Its dangerous territory and you are not a bad person for being concerned.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

She is already cheating on you because she is sharing emotional and personal issues with a non related member of the opposite sex. Thus an EA.

At this point, you are only trying to deduce whether or not it has gone PA.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Arcaign said:


> How would I do that on an Galaxy S3?


My wife has a S4. I use this
Android Spy App | Android Monitoring Software | Mobile Spy


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey arcaign---time to wake up

Let me ask you a simple question---your best friend---male or female---how man times do you write/talk/text/IM---them in a month---I bet she does more of the above in one day---than you do with all of your friends PUT TOGETHER IN A WEEK---and how many of your messages get deleted immediately

Let me put it to you like this---it is a VERY FINE LINE TWEEN FRIENDSHIP AND LOVE


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You also need to think about this guys motivation and goals.

No guy puts that much daily time and energy into texting a married woman about her feelings and her relationship with her husband - unless he is intent of having sex with her.

He's got a full time job, two kids, and a fiancé, and he still has time, energy, and interest in texting your wife about her emotions and her relationship ?

Yeah right!! 

He is doing standard player script 101.


You say you text friends who are women, ok, but ask yourself how frequently do they get texted , and who many texts per day? And are they about nothing but stuff, or are they about his they emotionally feel and about their emotional and intimate relationships with their partners?

Your wife has crossed the boundaries of how much time she puts into her relationship with this guy, how important he is emotionally too her, and the content of her conversations with him.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Arcaign said:


> I have to ask... and I'm not trying to sound like I'm in denial but are we jumping to conclusions a little? Could it simply be a friend she is confiding in? Is it wrong to have a guy friend? I have girlfriends that I text (100% innocent) I just don't want to start a sh*t storm if there really isn't anything going on.
> 
> I don't know what the messages are about. Could be anything from hows the weather to the worse case scenario.


You came here because your gut is telling you that your wife having secret conversations with another man isn't what a faithful wife should be doing. Your gut and the posters are jumping to the same conclusions.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Where are you boundaries, man? 

Who cares what she thinks. 

Is this the way you envision your relationship? 

Is this the way you want to be treated?

Why are you so timid about what you want from a relationship?

Stand up for yourself...

Start reading......

No More Mr Nice Guy

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MyHappyPlace said:


> I don't necessarily agree with the wording of this. Women can become confused with their marriage for other reasons than another man. I agree that this IS the case for THIS situation, but to blanket it that way is unfair. If there are other issues going on between spouses, one or the other can become confused about their standing without another person being involved.


Yes, other issues can lead to divorce without an affair happening. But that will rarely catch a husband by surprise. If there are money problems, a wife will usually suggest counseling.

I think, when the first move is to suggest considering a divorce, there is a 90% chance of a romantic rival. And I agree that, given the specifics of this case, that is what the OP is facing.


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