# Women Marrying W/O Physical Attraction



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?

Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?

Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Maybe the question should be do emotionally mature and healthy women do this. 

From what I have seen it's generally the kind of women who has a very bad past and has been using things like their sexuality to get affirmation. Lots of times they dating abusive men because of a past history of abuse. The guy usually is a KISA type of guy who thinks love is all it takes to change some really deep seeded problems.

So it's a kind of a perfect storm of her thinking that this "stable" guy is really whom she know intellectually she should choose to marry but is really not the kind of guy she gravitates to, and her suffering is a very strong pull for his KISA tendencies. KISA tendencies that are usually brought on by his insecurity. 

So in a sense the both kind of settle. At least that seems to be a recurring theme as far as I can see.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?


I'm sure this is less prevalent than in the past when a woman had to be concerned about who could provide the best standard of living for her, and more importantly, her offspring. 

I'd be surprised if it's particularly common now, at least in Western society.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?


Yes.
It's natural for them to choose the best opportunity for the best provider and protector.
Looks are important...
A good looking guy will have more shots at more women, but that does not include marriage. 
For marriage he must be the best opportunity for the best provider and protector


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Well I'm incredibly attractive so I wouldn't know


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Well I'm incredibly attractive so I wouldn't know


LoL, satire you gotta love it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lila said:


> *This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. * Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?


I agree with Lila on both angles. 

This isnt something I myself would be able to do, but it seems to be a fairly common occurance that women will marry the guy they think they are "supposed" to so that they will be cared for. (so they think) I cant imagine tying myself for life to someone I am not attracted to. And on the flipside, many men seem to lose all common sense when it comes to a beautiful woman who is actually toxic.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm curious if, and how common it is, men marry women they aren't attracted to or if this is mostly a female trait?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For some (maybe many) women, a man's overall stability is more important than being physically attracted to him. They probably hope that physical attraction will follow. Unfortunately, that doesn't usually happen and so there are problems down the road.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Lila said:


> This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?


I have a cousin who is bipolar, used to dress goth (looked like Elvira). The first boy she dated in high school treated her poorly. She quickly dumped him, and thereafter only dated nice guys. One guy she physically abused and was criminally convicted for something involving abuse, and he left her about six months later. The current guy is also a nice guy and they have a kid together (not married).

They say “crazy in the head, crazy in the bed.” I suspect that’s true. Probably not a good reason to have a LTR with a woman.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I've said this on here before. When I switched schools as a kid, I would always be stunned by how few girls were attractive. Then after about a month or two, I was stunned at how many attractive girls there were at this school. Getting to know people makes a big difference. 


Here's another example. Emily Jones. Look her up, shes the on field person for the Texas Rangers. Here's the thing about Emily, she's got to be the coolest freaking girl ever. She's hilarious, clever, fantastic at her job, she's just.... probably the most attractive woman I can think of besides my wife. I dont think at first glance you look at Emily and think she's a dime. But watch her pre and post game and all the little locker room interviews, you will see. She's just a bad ass woman and her husband and kids are incredibly lucky to have her. So shes a 10 in my eyes and I have like 3 or 4 10s ever. So yeah. You get to liking someone hard and all of the sudden they are physically one of the most beautiful women ever. I'm sure women feel this way about a lot of guys too. 

Emily Jones :corkysm60::corkysm60::corkysm60:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Here is an interesting thing that I have noticed about me.

If I meet a woman I might not be physically attracted to her.

However the longer I know her and get to know her, the more attractive physically she becomes to me.

However I was immediately captivated by my wife as it was love and lust at first sight.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Here is an interesting thing that I have noticed about me.
> 
> *If I meet a woman I might not be physically attracted to her.
> 
> ...


I think this is true for most of us. But if the above didnt happen with a woman, could you marry her?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


I'll probably sound like a dumbass saying this, but I think as you age physical attraction has less and less to do with physical beauty. It is almost as if a couple marries out of heterosexual attraction but then the relationship transitions to more of a pansexual attraction which feels way better than the prior. Unfortunately if a married couple is not pansexually compatible, then the relationship eventually looses physical sexual attraction. 

The online definitions of pansexuality are confusing, but it means that you are attracted to someone primarily because of their personality and all the other attributes become irrelevant. This means that a couple that married for physical beauty can still stay married and feel just as attracted to one another even if one of the two were to become disfigured from a battle with cancer.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


When you say "do women", you are implying all women are most women. Is this an attempt to smear all or most women? It sure looks like it.

Of course SOME women do all of these things. However, MOST women do not. Most women, just like most men, are good people.

There are of course some men to do the same thing. For example some men marry women based on the woman's social standing, or her wealth, or he wants a woman to raise his children so he can focus on work and running around cheating.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I'm curious if, and how common it is, men marry women they aren't attracted to or if this is mostly a female trait?


I've known of quite a few men who married women based on things other than sexual attraction, even women who they are not sexually attracted to them. The reasons? I mention them in a previous post: her social standing, her wealth, to raise his children from a previous marriage and on and on.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> ...


I was asking, not implying. I hope that few women do that. I hope that few women advise other women to do that. There are a number of Hs at TAM that claim they’re having this problem. Of course, TAM isn’t a representative sample. But I wonder if the Ws who claim to have never been attracted to H are lying.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Ah......if you asked this on the RedPill part of Reddit, you'd get some entertaining answers.

Some women probably do. Some men probably marry a dud because of her great rack.

However, I do not believe MOST people marry someone they have 0 attraction to. Attraction can fade is one has a crappy, lazy, neglectful, self-absorbed, or otherwise jerk spouse (that goes for both genders). But I do not believe "most" people of either gender marry someone with zero attraction.

I will say that I would bet my next paycheck that at least SOME of the men who think this happened to them are just lazy in their relationships and don't want to take responsibility, so it's easier to drink the red koolaid and blame the female.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> I think this is true for most of us. But if the above didnt happen with a woman, could you marry her?


Not sure. If she had a wonderful personality, maybe?

I could not date a woman I did not find mentally attractive as well as physically attractive.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > *This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. * Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?
> ...


You said it better than I could.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Don't forget about the women who are taught almost from childhood that their mission in life is to find a husband. 

And there are the women who subscribe to the (often taught) mentality that they should marry a man who loves them more than they love him so they will have the power in the relationship.

In neither of these two scenarios does attraction, much less sexual attraction become a factor. It's just a selection process to fulfill their duty to get married and take their place in society like they were taught. It might be later when a woman discovers her sexuality and that she's not sexually attracted to the man she married. I mean, she knew that part all the long, but it might later that that little tidbit that was initially so insignificant blows up into a major concern.

I'm not excusing anything. I'm just pointing out that segment of women who feel pressured to comply with expectations. In some cases those expectations are self-imposed when neither society nor their family are applying quite as much pressure as they imagined. Something said once or stated in passing can be construed as an edict or a requirement in order for her to be a whole and complete person.

These types of women can only identify themselves with being a married woman.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


This is an age old happenstance that provides periodic fodder refills on a never ending timeline.

Nothing new under the sun except recycling with varying verbiage depending on the audience and social tilt of the current times regurgitation happens.

Kindly, what brings this topic up? Curiosity is, I admit, getting the best of me here.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> I'll probably sound like a dumbass saying this, but I think as you age physical attraction has less and less to do with physical beauty. It is almost as if a couple marries out of heterosexual attraction but then the relationship transitions to more of a pansexual attraction which feels way better than the prior. Unfortunately if a married couple is not pansexually compatible, then the relationship eventually looses physical sexual attraction.
> 
> The online definitions of pansexuality are confusing, but it means that you are attracted to someone primarily because of their personality and all the other attributes become irrelevant. This means that a couple that married for physical beauty can still stay married and feel just as attracted to one another even if one of the two were to become disfigured from a battle with cancer.
> 
> ...



uummmm How to explain? I don't think the term pansexual applies here because there's no heterosexual implication. The word applies to people or a person who is sexually attracted to *all* other people, gender and sexual orientation notwithstanding.

So you might say it means they're attracted primarily to personality but in order for that person to be pansexual, they have to be attracted to people DESPITE sexual orientation, meaning they can love and/or will sleep with everyone - men, women, gay men, gay women, transvestites, transgender, everybody.

It's because "pan" (in this context, such as pandemic) implies global or widespread. It can't apply just to a married couple.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I've known of quite a few men who married women based on things other than sexual attraction, even women who they are not sexually attracted to them. The reasons? I mention them in a previous post: her social standing, her wealth, to raise his children from a previous marriage and on and on.


I was looking for some examples because I know it goes on especially with attractive social climbing men and wealthy women already in high society.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Kindly, what brings this topic up? Curiosity is, I admit, getting the best of me here.


A New Member thread where the W, after many years, confessed (or lied) to H saying that she was not attracted to him, never had been, wasn’t sure if she ever could be, and only married him as a provider.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I gotcha. 

The topic is ever relevant, just new persons, new times.

My first thought was; was she lying to him initially or here years later lying to him now to be able to escape by somehow shifting blame to him for causing her to now be not attracted to him.

This is the common circumstances and depending on her objective she will, guaranteed, pick the situation that supports what she wants to do now, at this time in her life.

A no win either way for H unless he's proactive and says ok, adios, and see how she reacts, then he leaves quickly while her heads spins.

Harsh, but this scenario has played out repeatedly over millenia.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I did this back in 2013. Like @sokillme suggested, I wasn’t the most emotionally mature or healthy individual back then. I had spent years with really wrong-for-me and emotionally abusive partners. I had also spent the last 35 years trying desperately to please my family (and failing many times), or being made fun of by them. So really, I didn’t think I was worth much. I also had been in love before, more than once, and that didn’t seem to work for me. So, when my parents sat me down and outlined the type of man they wanted to see me with, I took that to heart and found my now XH who had those traits, but who ended up treating me exactly the same way my parents (mostly my Mom) do. Not sure if I chose him to get another shot at trying to “fix” a bad relationship, or what. But, I was never attracted to him, and pretty much chose him for all the wrong reasons. That was 6-7 years ago, and I’ve done a lot of growing since then. My mindset is stronger, and I would never let my family push me around when it comes to major life decisions, and don’t particularly care if they like my current BF. It doesn’t matter who all likes him; it just matters that we like each other.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> uummmm How to explain? I don't think the term pansexual applies here because there's no heterosexual implication. The word applies to people or a person who is sexually attracted to *all* other people, gender and sexual orientation notwithstanding.
> 
> So you might say it means they're attracted primarily to personality but in order for that person to be pansexual, they have to be attracted to people DESPITE sexual orientation, meaning they can love and/or will sleep with everyone - men, women, gay men, gay women, transvestites, transgender, everybody.
> 
> It's because "pan" (in this context, such as pandemic) implies global or widespread. It can't apply just to a married couple.


I agree it sounds stupid, thus why I said I would sound like a dumbass. 

In the monogamous marital context i was trying to convey is that pansexuallity is physical attraction that occurs for a *specific person's personality* regardless of that other person's physical attributes. 

Within that context if a spouse has no attraction for the other person's personality then the marriage will become sexless no matter how handsome or attractive both are to each other heterosexually.

In other words a marriage is more likely to be successful if it is more about being attracted to each other's personality and less about physical beauty.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to. 
Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan. 
It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to.
> Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan.
> It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


Right, because they murder you if you if you try to leave the marriage...

Another one is go to any sporting event and get some lower level seats and such. You will see the ugliest dudes ever, clearly with money, and a dime piece at their side next to them. Money is like big sunglasses on women. They both hide a lot of flaws. :wink2:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to.
> Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan.
> It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


This assumes that the parents don't take attraction into account. Having talked to people who have done this I don't think that is the case. It may not have the priority that it does in the west but I think a decent parent is going to be aware and care about this. It's not unimportant and even people who set up arranged marriages know this.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> I agree it sounds stupid, thus why I said I would sound like a dumbass.
> 
> In the monogamous marital context i was trying to convey is that pansexuallity is physical attraction that occurs for a *specific person's personality* regardless of that other person's physical attributes.
> 
> ...


I understood what you meant. I just meant that physical attraction has nothing to do with being pansexual. 

This is what I mean:
You stated _"pansexuallity is physical attraction that occurs for a specific person's personality"_, when I don't know, and don't really think, that a person's personality has anything to do with it. 

Another word for pansexual is gender-blind or omnisexual (although they differ slightly in meaning), because they are open to having sexual relations with all people. 

That a person's physical looks waned over the years, does not a pansexual their spouse make just because they are still in love with their now physically less attractive partner. It only means a person maintains a strong emotional connection and physical attraction to their spouse despite their spouse's waned good looks.

Maybe this is what I'm trying to say: Just because I gained 20-30 pounds and my husband and I still enjoy sexual relations doesn't mean my husband's sexual orientation has changed. Pansexual refers to a person's sexual orientation - that they sleep with everyone and are not gender-specific (or anything specific lol) by selection. My husband isn't sexually attracted to men, nor is he willing to sleep with men, all of a sudden just because I am less attractive than when he met me, no matter how much he may like a guy's personality. He's not willing to sleep with transsexuals and so on. Yet THAT is what a pansexual is - a person attracted to and/or willing to sleep with everyone.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> This assumes that the parents don't take attraction into account. Having talked to people who have done this I don't think that is the case. It may not have the priority that it does in the west but I think a decent parent is going to be aware and care about this. It's not unimportant and even people who set up arranged marriages know this.


You are probably basing your opinion on modern India and it’s latent attitude towards arranged marriage.It hasn’t always been so progressive. It may surprise you to know that over half of marriages throughout the world are arranged and a high proportion of these are between people who have never met. 
As far as sexual attraction being taken into consideration by parents, would you have trusted your parents to pick out a woman who you would be happy with.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to.
> Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan.
> It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


Keep in mind though that a lot of those cultures really frown down upon divorce, so couples tend to stay together even if it's a horrible situation.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

weird topic, but based on your reason for asking post, I think it should be said that All people tend to rewrite history . . . . no let me rephrase that- all human brains are wired to remember things in the way that makes them feel the best about themselves.

In December of 1984 I met the future Mrs. Nail, at this point I'm unable to even speculate about the attraction either one of us felt in those first months. But looking in the mirror this morning, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't gamble that some woman . . . Any woman, finds this attractive. And That common observation, makes it very hard to trust anyone.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> You are probably basing your opinion on modern India and it’s latent attitude towards arranged marriage.It hasn’t always been so progressive. It may surprise you to know that over half of marriages throughout the world are arranged and a high proportion of these are between people who have never met.
> As far as sexual attraction being taken into consideration by parents, would you have trusted your parents to pick out a woman who you would be happy with.


Actually my sister tried to set me up with one her friends and my Mom basically told my sister that while she was a nice girl she was not attractive enough, so actually yeah.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Mr. Nail said:


> I think it should be said that All people tend to rewrite history . . . . no let me rephrase that- all human brains are wired to remember things in the way that makes them feel the best about themselves.


I
This is the best quote for the week l have read.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?




I’ve also known men that have married women that they’re not attracted to. 

Because the woman is wealthy, because the woman they tolerates them, because they don’t want to be alone, or because the woman wanted him to. Or because they are simply low maintenance. 

I’ve also known women that have married men simply because they were attractive, and they didn’t really like them. 

I don’t think this is a gender issue.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > This is an interesting question but with a simple answer. Yes, women marry men w/o feeling physical attraction but then again many men marry women who display a ton of red flags mostly because she's physically attractive. Is it possible there's a lot of crossover between those two groups?
> ...


Agreed. My example was just the first one that popped into my head because it's what I see most often but you're absolutely right, men and women will overlook all kinds of attributes (or lack thereof) in favor of qualities they prioritize.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


If he has to ask ?? Guess what ???....she's not attracted....

And, let's see..... imagine, for a moment, you are a guest at a wedding ceremony where the bride says her vows......
"...I'm not really in to you....but I want to be married to you because the guys I dated in the past and wanted to sleep with were not marriage material and wouldn't provide me security, and I think you will....."

Oh, and BTW, I WANTED to sleep with them, but not you.....you will have to beg me for your bi-monthly pity sex....

A guy would have to be a hell of a KISA to say "I do" to this....


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

When I worked for Verizon, we had these gypsies come in all the time. Most annoying family ever and the daughter was talking about her arranged marriage coming up soon. Freaking wild! I always felt like telling her "just knock the cheapskate out of him and you will be happier than your mom" because these damn people!

I'm about to say something that sounds ignorant but it's just true and it only sounds ignorant to anyone who has never worked in sales, which makes you the ignorant one not me, but these damn gypsies are worse than Indian and middle eastern people. They all think I'm personally running Dude wireless and they can name their price. Then they get angry when you tell them the price is the price and take it or GTFO of here. Because yes it comes to that point! I dont have all day to go back and forth with someone who thinks I'm personally pricing these items and I KNOW I'm not going to make any money off of because they are the cheapest sons of *****es ever. Asians ask for a discount, but they are cool when you are like "nah man, I wish I could give you one" and most indian and middle eastern men are the same (the women are silent in both indian and middle eastern families. Asian women will also ask for a discount but don't get mad and are cool with a "no") but the gypsies take it as personal offense for some reason. Freaking make it ridiculously uncomfortable for everyone involved and are just jerks. Hardcore jerks. They are probably cool outside of a shopping setting I'm sure. /rant

Anyway, this poor girl was to be married to some guy she didn't know that was a year older and everyone was learning about her culture gathered around while some poor bastard took care of her stupid cheap ass father and mother. She told us all about it. Freaking wild man! Happens in the US all the time too turns out. Couldn't believe it! We were all like "you know you have a choice at 18 right? (She was 17 for a few more months before she turned 18) and basically she was saying she has no choice. Jesus! Sounds like abuse to me, but whatever. It's just culture shock of the highest order being American. Couldn't believe it!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> If he has to ask ?? Guess what ???....she's not attracted....
> 
> And, let's see..... imagine, for a moment, you are a guest at a wedding ceremony where the bride says her vows......
> "...I'm not really in to you....but I want to be married to you because the guys I dated in the past and wanted to sleep with were not marriage material and wouldn't provide me security, and I think you will....."
> ...


KISA or not, there are men who would do it, just like there are women who live all manner of problematic issues and then marry them. Society is filled with all kinds.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to.
> Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan.
> It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


That doesn't mean those marriages are better, but that its far harder for people in many cultures to end their marriage. Especially for the women.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> When I worked for Verizon, we had these gypsies come in all the time. Most annoying family ever and the daughter was talking about her arranged marriage coming up soon. Freaking wild! I always felt like telling her "just knock the cheapskate out of him and you will be happier than your mom" because these damn people!
> 
> I'm about to say something that sounds ignorant but it's just true and it only sounds ignorant to anyone who has never worked in sales, which makes you the ignorant one not me, but these damn gypsies are worse than Indian and middle eastern people. They all think I'm personally running Dude wireless and they can name their price. Then they get angry when you tell them the price is the price and take it or GTFO of here. Because yes it comes to that point! I dont have all day to go back and forth with someone who thinks I'm personally pricing these items and I KNOW I'm not going to make any money off of because they are the cheapest sons of *****es ever. Asians ask for a discount, but they are cool when you are like "nah man, I wish I could give you one" and most indian and middle eastern men are the same (the women are silent in both indian and middle eastern families. Asian women will also ask for a discount but don't get mad and are cool with a "no") but the gypsies take it as personal offense for some reason. Freaking make it ridiculously uncomfortable for everyone involved and are just jerks. Hardcore jerks. They are probably cool outside of a shopping setting I'm sure. /rant
> 
> Anyway, this poor girl was to be married to some guy she didn't know that was a year older and everyone was learning about her culture gathered around while some poor bastard took care of her stupid cheap ass father and mother. She told us all about it. Freaking wild man! Happens in the US all the time too turns out. Couldn't believe it! We were all like "you know you have a choice at 18 right? (She was 17 for a few more months before she turned 18) and basically she was saying she has no choice. Jesus! Sounds like abuse to me, but whatever. It's just culture shock of the highest order being American. Couldn't believe it!


This sounds uncomfortably racist and doesn't seem to be very many races of people safe from your judgment.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For myself,(and I think many women), whether a man is attractive to me or not is based on not just looks but on character and personality. That's why you fairly often see attractive women with not so attractive men, they will usually have a great personality.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I was looking for some examples because I know it goes on especially with attractive social climbing men and wealthy women already in high society.


I know of a few women this happened to. They were divorced or widowed. Married a guy. The guy convinces them that he will oversee their finances. Then a few years later the guy divorced her and took everything she had.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I know of a few women this happened to. They were divorced or widowed. Married a guy. The guy convinces them that he will oversee their finances. Then a few years later the guy divorced her and took everything she had.




I know a guy that married a lawyer, had a kid with her, and then ignored her in every way possible so she would leave him. 

He hasn’t worked a day since in about 5 years, living off the alimony. It’s obvious what his intention was.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think that how a man makes a women feel about herself is a big thing, especially with insecure women. My good friend is like this... she goes after men who treat her like a queen, and who obsess over her, she likes the way she feels so she goes after men like this. When the man is no longer obsessed or in that infatuation stage, that’s when problems happen Bc she never really likes the man to begin with. And then comes the controlling behavior... if you love me you would x,y,z. And he has to jump through hoops to make her happy. And then when he becomes super busy and can’t cater her every need she needs attention to feel loved/happy she goes outside the relationship and seek attention from other men. 

So yes, some women like my friend do this. But on the flip side... the man is ignoring a lot of crazy red flags because she is pretty and that’s all he cares about.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I have a SIL who married a very handsome guy with a very large penis. He’s a bad boy, tattoos, bipolar, did every sort of drug imaginable, etc. She believes that the most important thing is feeling passion for your lover. The family all told her to break up with him, but she married him anyway. He stopped drinking but for years would drive smashed with the kids in the car. He’s now overweight (as is she), they seldom have sex, he’s unsupportive, sleeps for days, the kids are afraid of him, etc. She’s been on the edge of divorcing him for years. Many people hope he will cheat on her so that she’ll divorce him.

Maybe my circle is unusual but I don’t see women marrying guys they’re not attracted to. There are other problems, though.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't know that it happens as much now as it did when most women didn't work and needed someone to support them but it does happen. They may "love" the guy they marry but they aren't "in love" with him and over time that's usually more of a problem than they anticipated. Especially if one day they meet someone that they really are physically attracted to.


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## Texican (Jan 11, 2012)

From my perspective as a expat living permanent resident in West Africa since 2003 - this is a very true statement for Africans.

And it makes perfect sense in this society.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marriage beta-tizes men into willing whipping boys for their wives (happy wife, happy life BS). Then after their complete beta-tization she understandingly loses all attraction she once had and proceeds to divorce him or cheat on him and then divorce him. Thats my take.

Interestingly, men's testosterone increases after divorce.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> When you say "do women", you are implying all women are most women. Is this an attempt to smear all or most women? It sure looks like it.
> 
> Of course SOME women do all of these things. However, MOST women do not. Most women, just like most men, are good people.


I'm not quite sure why suggesting that some women marry for other reasons than physical attraction is a "smear" or an indication of being a "bad" person.

It seems fairly common for people (especially women) to be told that they shouldn't marry just for looks.

As far as women *faking* enjoying sex in order to trap a man and then stopping sex once they're married, I think that would be exceptionally rare.

What does happen is that many women lose sexual attractions in LTRs (see the thread regarding this) and it may *seem* as though they are consciously doing the bait and switch, but I believe that is rarely the case.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I will say that I would bet my next paycheck that at least SOME of the men who think this happened to them are just lazy in their relationships and don't want to take responsibility, so it's easier to drink the red koolaid and blame the female.


While I'm sure this is the case with some of the men who think this happened to them.....

women losing sexual attraction in LTR's through no fault of the man IS a thing as well. In those cases, nothing the man can change is likely to help.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> I’ve also known men that have married women that they’re not attracted to.
> 
> Because the woman is wealthy, because the woman they tolerates them, because they don’t want to be alone, or because the woman wanted him to. Or because they are simply low maintenance.
> 
> ...


As far as marrying people for the wrong reasons, this is not a gender issue. Both genders do it.

As to what the wrong reasons are, I do think there's a gender difference.

Men tend to focus too much on sexual attraction and women not enough.

Though, no doubt, women are changing slowly as they are less dependent on husbands for their "provider" capabilities.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I think part of the problem is that some women want to mix-and-match. They want the benefits of an old school provider marriage but shouldn’t be expected to have sex because (in modern thinking) sex is about love and desire, not duty.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> I have a SIL who married a very handsome guy with a very large penis. He’s a bad boy, tattoos, bipolar, did every sort of drug imaginable, etc. She believes that the most important thing is feeling passion for your lover. The family all told her to break up with him, but she married him anyway. He stopped drinking but for years would drive smashed with the kids in the car. He’s now overweight (as is she), they seldom have sex, he’s unsupportive, sleeps for days, the kids are afraid of him, etc. She’s been on the edge of divorcing him for years. Many people hope he will cheat on her so that she’ll divorce him.
> 
> Maybe my circle is unusual but I don’t see women marrying guys they’re not attracted to. There are other problems, though.


Trying to figure out how you know his penis size? Something you and your SIL talk about a lot?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Trying to figure out how you know his penis size? Something you and your SIL talk about a lot?


She probably talked. Women sometimes do.

I got upset with Mrs. C fairly early in our marriage when I found out she was talking about things with her sister.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> with a very large penis.



Did you SIL volunteer this type of information? Or was it just mentioned nonchalantly in one of your convos? :laugh:

EDIT: I can see @sokillme beat me to it... :grin2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hmmm. I wonder if these women ever enjoy the sex with these ugly dudes?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Trying to figure out how you know his penis size? Something you and your SIL talk about a lot?


He and I used to drink together. I don’t remember the context, maybe talking about condoms, but he said don’t tell [his wife] she’d get angry but I have a big ****.

Talking with my wife a few weeks later, I mentioned it. She was surprised that he thought that would get her sister angry over that. But she’d mentioned to my wife that it was so big that sometimes she had trouble taking it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> As far as women *faking* enjoying sex in order to trap a man and then stopping sex once they're married, I think that would be exceptionally rare.


The woman in question may be enjoying sex because it's bait for men, which gives her a sense of power and control of her destiny. Once married, that motivation is gone. Some make the transition (to LTR with passionate intimacy), others do not. It's even possible that a sense of guilt over what they'd done in the past restricts their ability to enjoy sex after marriage.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Craig,

There are a subset of folks on TAM who aren’t super keen on the opposite sex. They tend to see unattractive behaviors as gender specific as opposed to human nature. The typical male profile has two to three primary complaints about women:
1. They are too promiscuous 
2. Their marital selection criteria is financially predatory 
3. Non specific critiques - the careful disclaimer of ‘the women in my social circle don’t gold dig - but there are other issues’





CraigBesuden said:


> I was asking, not implying. I hope that few women do that. I hope that few women advise other women to do that. There are a number of Hs at TAM that claim they’re having this problem. Of course, TAM isn’t a representative sample. But I wonder if the Ws who claim to have never been attracted to H are lying.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> Yet THAT is what a pansexual is - a person attracted to and/or willing to sleep with everyone.


With regards to women that marry and then the relationship does not have physical attraction as the OP was asking. 

Imagine your husband wanted to become trans or roleplay as a female during sexual intimacy with you. Would you become sexually incompatible with him?

Or imagine your husband was in a car accident with a spinal injury and suffered the complete loss of his sexual response. Through physical therapy he developed the ability to recover his sexuality via special touches to his ears. Would you become sexually incompatible with him?

My point being is that as we age, we change. Sometimes the person you married thirty years ago is a completely different person. Would you be open to loving that person even if things physically changed a great deal? The notion of doing so in my opinion would seem much like a pansexual loving someone for who they are without any difference to what they are. 

In case you are interested:

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/what-is-pansexuality



> pansexual people do not desire everybody, they just don’t rule a person out because of gender.





> HB agrees, saying the biggest misconception about pansexuality is “that we are trying to have sex with anyone and everyone. I am attracted to certain personality types and physical features, just like anyone else.”


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

From a study of 3,000 Canadians:

Sure enough, participants with stronger fears about being single were more likely to stay in relationships they were unhappy with – and more likely to date people who weren't good for them, the researchers concluded in a paper published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

*In which areas were people like to settle?*

They settled in the area of personality, choosing someone who might come off as more of a jerk or uncaring as a partner. We also manipulated physical attractiveness and saw similar results, so people who were more afraid of being single were more willing to date someone unattractive.

*Who was more likely to settle out of fear of being single, men or women?*

It was roughly the same for both men and women – they both expressed similar levels of fear of being single and we saw that affecting their relationship positions in similar ways.

*Did the tendency to settle increase with age?*

Interestingly, it didn't.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif...being-single-youre-not-alone/article15773294/


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


YES. Just ask most wives what they like about their husbands, or what really attracted them to him.

Very few can say physical attraction. Whole bunches of memes exist from people telling themselves its ok.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'd be surprised if it's particularly common now, at least in Western society.


Yep far more sisters going their own way, and girls shacking up with other girls instead. Why go for some ugly guy that doesnt do it for you, when you can get a girl who cares about her look and fashion.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

spotthedeaddog said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> ...


BS


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> With regards to women that marry and then the relationship does not have physical attraction as the OP was asking.
> 
> Imagine your husband wanted to become trans or roleplay as a female during sexual intimacy with you. Would you become sexually incompatible with him?
> 
> ...


I think it's possible, if not insanely probable, that you will continue arguing this word/term for the rest of your days because you keep on wanting to apply "in my opinion" to the definition and formulating examples that have nothing to do with the definition, instead of accepting that the term is defined and isn't subject to all kinds of assignments like you keep trying to do. 

This is the 3rd time you have applied it incorrectly and even used truncated quotes, that you conveniently shortened to serve your own purpose and make them seem like they say the same as you are saying. But they don't. And by doing that, you created soundbites, which amount to misquotes and misrepresentations of what the person actually stated. That's a really sad state of affairs when it's all you can do to get your erroneous point across. You quoted from two different people as if both sentences were stated by the same person.

Honestly, BadSanta, doing that kind of stuff means you're not interested in fighting fairly. You just want to argue and win at all cost. So disingenuous.


_". . . identifying as pansexual means you're attracted to people regardless of sex or gender . . . Consider pansexual attraction as being transcendent of gender, meaning: it isn’t limited by gender (internal awareness of a gender role or identity) or sex (anatomy of one’s reproductive system)."_

I don't know how many times I stated this. The words I used are the same thing. So based on the definition, you have to understand that you keep trying to apply events and circumstances to a sexual orientation?

_"I'd say the best definition would be that my sexual attraction is not based on gender assignment or gender expression. B]I am attracted to men and women as well as non-binary people who don't identify as either.[/B] I am attracted to certain personality types and physical features, just like anyone else,” says HB, a full-time student who identifies as pansexual."_

I didn't say pansexuals do sleep with everyone. I said they "will" or "are willing" to sleep with everyone, meaning they will sleep with all kinds of people they are attracted to despite the person's sexual orientation. So a pansexual person will be with a man, a woman, a gay man, a lesbian woman, a transvestite, a transexual, and so on. They have no preference with regard to gender or sexual orientation. The person who stated the quote above is simply explaining that she is selective by certain personality types and physical features to counter the misconception that she has no standard for selection just because she doesn't rule out gender or orientation. 

So what does that have to do with there ever possibly becoming the day that I have to wiggle my husband's ear to get him off? Nothing. 

If you will accept that pansexuals are (quoting again) "attracted to men and women as well as non-binary people who don't identify as either," then you will finally understand that pansexual is a sexual orientation, and that....

1. A person is not pansexual just because they continue to be sexually attracted to their spouse after many years of marriage and less physical attractiveness.

2. A person does not turn into a pansexual just because they role play with their spouse dressing up as a transvestite.

3. A person does not turn into a pansexual just because their spouse begins to require non-traditional sexual stimulation.

4. A person does not turn into a pansexual just because they changed with age.

5. A person is not pansexual because they love a person for who they are as applied to heterosexual spouses because the term pansexual and its meaning cannot be applied to heterosexuals.

....even though all those things are admirable.

Nondenominational churches are independent congregations that do not affiliate themselves with established denominations of Christianity. That definition in itself makes a nondenominational church a denomination.

I used that example to illustrate that, based on the definition, pansexuality is itself a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, etc. are sexual orientations.

So the term cannot be applied to all the examples you keep assigning it because none of the events, circumstances, or reasons do a pansexual make. To be pansexual, you have to be "attracted to men and women as well as non-binary people who don't identify as either."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM2020 said:


> Craig,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When I went through my divorce, I became angry at women. Which scared me. I was raised by a single mom until my early teens and have always respected women. 

So I became friends with lots of awesome women. And I didn’t sleep with them. They helped keep my head on straight. 

I think some of these dudes need to do the same.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> The woman in question may be enjoying sex because it's bait for men, which gives her a sense of power and control of her destiny. Once married, that motivation is gone. Some make the transition (to LTR with passionate intimacy), others do not. It's even possible that a sense of guilt over what they'd done in the past restricts their ability to enjoy sex after marriage.




Or, you know, maybe they like sex just as much as guys do?


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> The woman in question may be enjoying sex because it's bait for men, which gives her a sense of power and control of her destiny. Once married, that motivation is gone. Some make the transition (to LTR with passionate intimacy), others do not. It's even possible that a sense of guilt over what they'd done in the past restricts their ability to enjoy sex after marriage.





Marduk said:


> Or, you know, maybe they like sex just as much as guys do?



Thank you Marduk. Even after 25 years of marriage, some of us really DO like sex just as much as guys, and have never felt one bit of guilt for that enjoyment. 
I married my husband for many reasons...one being physical attraction, and another being his appreciation of, and enthusiasm for, women's sexuality.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Marduk said:


> MEM2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Craig,
> ...


You were able to do this because you see women as people. They don't, not even the married ones.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


I've witnessed all of the above many times over the years. So, yes.



sokillme said:


> Maybe the question should be do emotionally mature and healthy women do this.


Define mature and healthy. I've seen a large grouping of middle class women with higher education espouse the idea that physical attraction is not part of the criteria mature women use to select a husband. What matters is shared life goals, religious beliefs, political beliefs, intelligence, wittiness, honestly, humor, stability, loyalty, aesthetically pleasing form (not to be confused with sexy), reasonable grooming, etc. Sexual attraction? Pfft! Not even in the top 10.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm sure this is less prevalent than in the past when a woman had to be concerned about who could provide the best standard of living for her, and more importantly, her offspring.
> 
> I'd be surprised if it's particularly common now, at least in Western society.


 A dual income or high single earner household generally offers more opportunity to the offspring in terms of extracurriculars and education. Not to mention better healthcare, typically a safer neighborhood to grow up in, better nutrition..

Believe me, picking a mate that has the ability to raise the standard of living for self and offspring is still a thing and likely always will be.

*** I'm supposed to go outside today and mow the grass. I was slacking a minute and only read to this post before telling myself to get moving. Sorry if this has already been covered.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

Don't Panic said:


> Thank you Marduk. Even after 25 years of marriage, some of us really DO like sex just as much as guys, and have never felt one bit of guilt for that enjoyment.
> I married my husband for many reasons...one being physical attraction, *and another being his appreciation of, and enthusiasm for, women's sexuality*.


This. The lack of "judgment" I felt in my second ex husband was key to me enjoying sex with him. He was my first orgasm. 
First husband was my first and I felt like I wasn't supposed to enjoy it. He wanted me to "hold still" and such. He always wanted to be the one to call the shots. Not being made to feel like a perform on queue **** hole really does have a lot to do with women enjoying sex. 

I liked first orgasm guy a helluva lot better than "first love" guy. HUGE difference in my sexuality being expressed.

Back to the question at hand: I will never marry a guy again that I haven't ****ed many times and actually enjoyed it with him. 
For me, actually liking the idea of ****ing the guy the rest of my life is kinda important to me at this point in my life. I don't marry for money or status, I marry for feelings, intimacy and, apparently, sex. 

I don't get women that agree to have sex with a man for the rest of their life but do not find him attractive sexually. Makes NO sense to me but what do I know?

Bully to the women who can pull off such a thing...they have a dark talent I don't possess. *shrugs*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Define mature and healthy. I've seen a large grouping of middle class women with higher education espouse the idea that physical attraction is not part of the criteria mature women use to select a husband. What matters is shared life goals, religious beliefs, political beliefs, intelligence, wittiness, honestly, humor, stability, loyalty, aesthetically pleasing form (not to be confused with sexy), reasonable grooming, etc. Sexual attraction? Pfft! Not even in the top 10.


Since when did emotional intelligence or healthiness ever equate to career or monitory success. But those two things I listed are profoundly important to marital success and relationships in general.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

There’s nothing wrong with caring about finances, personality, kindness, etc. The problem is when there’s zero attraction and it results in a sexless marriage. If the wife keeps up the intimacy, he will never know.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

It's also called not being foolish and making sure you are sexually compatible before you marry. I'm guilty of this in my first marriage so no judgment to anyone. 
Marriage is hard enough without being repulsed by your lifelong sexual partner.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VibrantWings said:


> This. The lack of "judgment" I felt in my second ex husband was key to me enjoying sex with him. He was my first orgasm.
> First husband was my first and I felt like I wasn't supposed to enjoy it. He wanted me to "hold still" and such. He always wanted to be the one to call the shots. Not being made to feel like a perform on queue **** hole really does have a lot to do with women enjoying sex.
> 
> I liked first orgasm guy a helluva lot better than "first love" guy. HUGE difference in my sexuality being expressed.
> ...


That deserved repeating.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VibrantWings said:


> It's also called not being foolish and making sure you are sexually compatible before you marry. I'm guilty of this in my first marriage so no judgment to anyone.
> Marriage is hard enough without being repulsed by your lifelong sexual partner.


I don't know if you ever ready anytime I shared my experience with my first husband. Let's just assume there were some similarities in both out first marriage - few but there were some. Let's also say we realized we made a mistake due largely to our sexual dissatisfaction (of course, I'm assuming your divorce was due, at least in part, to the sexual incompatibility). So okay.

What if either or both of us had convictions that prevented us from divorcing, whether religious or personal beliefs?

I shudder to think what my life would have been like. I needed something but didn't know what I needed. I only knew I wasn't getting it. I learned later about sexual satisfaction, and I'm pretty sure I would have cheated on my husband because it was confusing and frustrating as hell.

What would you have done?
1. Would you have gotten to the point that you hated the idea of having sex with him because you realized you were just being used? 

2. Would you have dutifully continued sexual relations enduring the shame and sexual neglect?

3. Would you have cheated?

4. Would you have stopped having sex with him, essentially having a sexless marriage due to lack of sexual attraction?


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

StarFires said:


> I don't know if you ever ready anytime I shared my experience with my first husband. Let's just assume there were some similarities in both out first marriage - few but there were some. Let's also say we realized we made a mistake due largely to our sexual dissatisfaction (of course, I'm assuming your divorce was due, at least in part, to the sexual incompatibility). So okay.
> 
> What if either or both of us had convictions that prevented us from divorcing, whether religious or personal beliefs?
> 
> ...


Ironically, "waiting until marriage" is usually a religious belief system...and one that was somewhat expected by my parents. 
It's part of the reason I made such a poor marriage choice. I realized what bull**** other people's belief systems are when put into the actual reality of living. 

I know what I would have done: Divorce him. I did already. But not for the sex- him getting nasty with me in the bedroom was kind of the straw that broke the camels back. I said I would never have sex with him again after something he did...and I have kept my word 
You can say that pretty much that lack of trust in many different areas ends a marriage. I'm not wasting the rest of my life with a man I cannot trust intimately. Young idiots or not. 

Nor would I expect anyone else to...irregardless of what religious institutions say must be done. They can sleep with him


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VibrantWings said:


> Nor would I expect anyone else to...irregardless of what religious institutions say must be done. They can sleep with him


I know that's right!

Buuuut I'm not sure you answered the question. You gave a little more insight into your situation. Thanks for that.

The criteria is you are unable to divorce as a matter of your own convictions. It's just a hypothetical question since you don't have that conviction. But humor me. I'm trying to establish another reason women marry without sexual attraction and why some marriages end up sexless.

So, I understand you vowed never to have sex with him again. But you are unable to divorce, so what would you have done? Specific answer please.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Since when did emotional intelligence or healthiness ever equate to career or monitory success. But those two things I listed are profoundly important to marital success and relationships in general.


Ya may have lost me, hun.

What I was saying is that I know a LOT of average women that pretty much place sexual attraction low on their mate check list because, to them, it's not nearly as important as a long list of compatibility factors. For these women, sex simply isn't considered profoundly important to a marital relationship and it's silly to say otherwise.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

StarFires said:


> I don't know if you ever ready anytime I shared my experience with my first husband. Let's just assume there were some similarities in both out first marriage - few but there were some. Let's also say we realized we made a mistake due largely to our sexual dissatisfaction (of course, I'm assuming your divorce was due, at least in part, to the sexual incompatibility). So okay.
> 
> What if either or both of us had convictions that prevented us from divorcing, whether religious or personal beliefs?
> 
> ...





StarFires said:


> I know that's right!
> 
> Buuuut I'm not sure you answered the question. You gave a little more insight into your situation. Thanks for that.
> 
> ...


Lol, okay. I will be more specific 

I need to pre-phrase with some added information though because I don't like the idea of anyone, anywhere in this world being stuck in an abusive relationship. 

1. I married my first husband when we were both very young. He changed for the worse after we married. Were there signs? Sure but what in hell does an inexperienced 17-18 yr old know? He became quite jealous and abusive right away. I couldn't go to the grocery store without him following me, insisting I was meeting someone while walking around with a basket full of groceries in the check out line. He called both of my TWO jobs to make sure I was working. He would ask my coworkers not to tell me he called. What a moron- of course they told me and tripped out on his never-ending craziness. He took my car and hid it, blocked me in with his car so I couldn't get away from him. Started physically holding me down, not allowing me to leave our home, threw things at my head, grabbed m in headlocks, pinned me down, locked me in our room, tried to tie me up, punched holes in the walls, tried to alienate me from friends/family and started fights with strangers (either because he IMAGINED I knew them or they said something to protect me while he was screaming at me and following me around in public). 
I was starting to hate him and hoped one of the people he started fights with would do him some serious bodily harm. That relationship could not last as it was escalating more every day. One of us was going to wind up dead.

I don't type/say that lightly. I hope there aren't too many other people in the world that have lived with that ****. 

People who feel like they cannot divorce? I hope they have much better relationships than I had. 



All that being said, back to your options. Choices 1 and 4 were already at play. 

What about 2 and 3? Conjecture on my part but I will say, If I were religious, dutiful, trapped, scared or whatever else enough to not leave that type of relationship....I cannot see the point of an affair. Doesn't that go against the grain as much as divorce (if not more?)
Dutiful sex? In an abusive relationship that I could not leave. Yeah, write me in, put it down, and I have to say I would probably do it to "keep the peace". Probably would have gotten good at it, too, if I felt it had any long term effect of peace-keeping. I AM a survivor. 

Also need to add: I had no children with my first husband but life sure is different when you have them to consider.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Don't Panic said:


> Thank you Marduk. Even after 25 years of marriage, some of us really DO like sex just as much as guys, and have never felt one bit of guilt for that enjoyment.
> I married my husband for many reasons...one being physical attraction, and another being his appreciation of, and enthusiasm for, women's sexuality.


Never mind that I was addressing a subset, not all women.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VibrantWings said:


> I AM a survivor.


Yes girl, and what a helluva survivor you are! Thanks for that. I can't believe people go through all that.

I was the same age as you my first marriage. Yep, that's young....and stupid. Didn't know nuttin. I didn't even know I could leave him. I didn't know it was an option and didn't expect I could go back home. I only knew I wanted to leave, so I got a job, and then my mom made me leave because he had quit his job to sell marijuana with me and the baby in the house. When she discovered what he was doing, she got me out of there and told him we could come back if he stops selling. But, I didn't want to go back so I didn't. 

If I had half as much to put up with as you did, I know one of us would have gotten hurt. The one and only thing I did know was that no man was ever going to put his hands on me. All he did one day was block me from walking away from him. We were arguing and he said something I didn't want to be bothered with, so I was leaving the room. He got in my face and kept yelling at me, insisting I was going to answer him and blocked me from leaving. I'm 5.6 and he's 6.3, but I wasn't going to be yelled at or intimidated like that, so I smashed the fire end of my cigarette in his arm. He moved aside and we had no more problems after that. But you went through a real ordeal and came out the other side victorious. Bravo to you!


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> Is it common for women to marry men who they are not physically attracted to?
> 
> Do women frequently advise other women to ignore physical attraction and marry for other things, such as money, good potential father, etc?
> 
> Do women lie to the guy while dating him, telling him she thinks he’s sexy, enjoys the sex, etc... then it turns sexless after the wedding (except baby making sex)? Or does the guy just fail to ask?


Many women marry men they are not physically attracted to for (mostly) monetary reasons. the same women though, will be more likely to cheat on these men because they need the spike of a more attractive, hot-stuff lover that is missing in the marriage.

So they have the monetary security by their husband, the the hot-flash from their lover. 

It is more common for women to marry rich men (even if they are not in love with these men) than for men to marry rich women they're not in love with.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Don't forget about the women who are taught almost from childhood that their mission in life is to find a husband.
> 
> And there are the women who subscribe to the (often taught) mentality that they should marry a man who loves them more than they love him so they will have the power in the relationship.
> 
> ...


Totally true. This mentality is mostly in the Eastern Countries where women are taught that their mission in life is to get married, have children, take care of the house and let the man be the provider. 

Women of this type have a different perspective on life as they were raised with different goals. Their goal is to get married very early and "serve" to the family. Most of these women look the monetary side as the first "quality" in a husband.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Millions of women every year marry men who they are not attracted to.
> Arranged marriage has always been common in India, Pakistan, China and even Japan.
> It’s nothing new and these marriages have a higher percentage success rate than regular marriage.


Arranged marriages used to be a tradition in Albania (where I live) (especially before the '90s) and the selection criteria was decided by the parents and most important things were evaluated in this order:

1-the friendship between the families (of bride/groom); - the higher the bond, the higher the chances to marry the respective children;

2-the families' similar tradition and origin; when the families were from the same city/village, the chances to bond the children were higher;

3-the religion (both families must be _either_ Muslims or Christians but no marriage would take place among families with different religions)

4- if there was any mental/health problem running in either of the families, the couple wouldn't get married;

5- if one of the children were previously married/engaged/in a previous relationship, that would be a minus, especially if it was the woman. 

6-the monetary side - the man must be working, the woman not necessarily. Even if she hadn't gone to school, that was not a huge problem. 

7-the outer appearance of the respective _soon-to-be-couple_ - pretty much almost non-existent as long as the above criterias were fulfilled.

*******************************
If the families belonged to "high society", the monetary aspect would be ranked higher. Maybe the 2nd, on the list.
For normal families, it would be ranked where it is above.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> She probably talked. Women sometimes do.


You don't necessarily have to talk. You can tell the size by looking at the pants/trousers or whatever the man was wearing. You see the shape/form and everything. Especially when the man gets horny. 




> I got upset with Mrs. C fairly early in our marriage when I found out she was talking about things with her sister.


LOL.
Women do talk all the time. Believe me. It's just that they don't do in a demonstrative way, as guys would-for feminine parts.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Hmmm. I wonder if these women ever enjoy the sex with these ugly dudes?


This is precisely what I've always wondered though... 

How can they? I mean...he can have the money...but how can I handle him if I can't even stand to look at him!!! 
How can I share bed and sex with someone I have no desire to look at and consequently kiss. Eww. 

Imagine sexing him .... I would throw up. 

On the other hand, I think for these men it's enough to have a woman laying in bed with them. I don't know ... :|


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Me too!

The first man who comes to mind is Trump. He's physically unattractive, and his behavior is unattactive. And yet???

I can't imagine getting involved with someone I don't want to jump on. Having said that though, I don't find many men initially displeasing. There's so much involved - for me voice matters a lot.

'Pretty' guys don't do it for me. The best are average men who take care of themselves. I like grey hair, scars, wrinkles. Men wear all that very well.




lovelygirl said:


> This is precisely what I've always wondered though...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> Me too!
> 
> The first man who comes to mind is Trump. He's physically unattractive, and his behavior is unattactive. And yet???
> 
> ...


To be fair, he is 73 years old.:wink2:

He wasn't bad in his day. The money and power are obviously attractions.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lovelygirl said:


> You don't necessarily have to talk. You can tell the size by looking at the pants/trousers or whatever the man was wearing. You see the shape/form and everything. Especially when the man gets horny.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Growers don't give much away.:wink2:

Mrs. Conan was having way too much fun and it got back to me because I overheard a bunch of ladies discussing my unit and a couple of stunts and other playful things only Mrs. C should have known.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Nope. 

Age has nothing to do with my comments (especially since I was quite complimentary about older men).

Over the years, he's consistently been an unappealing 'package'. He's just so annoying and distasteful.





ConanHub said:


> To be fair, he is 73 years old.:wink2:
> 
> He wasn't bad in his day. The money and power are obviously attractions.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> Nope.
> 
> Age has nothing to do with my comments (especially since I was quite complimentary about older men).
> 
> Over the years, he's consistently been an unappealing 'package'. He's just so annoying and distasteful.


Objectively, he wasn't a bad looking man. Your dislike of him seems to mostly come from his mannerisms and attitude.:smile2:

I don't think he was ever hunky but not bad solely based on looks.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan was having way too much fun and it got back to me because I overheard a bunch of ladies discussing my unit and a couple of stunts and other playful things only Mrs. C should have known.


:|

that indeed could've been too much, lol. I mean... usually with my girlfriend we might imply stuff but we don't talk about details. We get the message with once sentece. "Is his good...do you like it" "Oh yeah, definitely. Lots." and that's it. but exchanging details about size and all..nooo . I'd like to have the exclusivity of that.:laugh:


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Attraction is totally subjective. 

To be objective about it means we'd not have any personal preferences or opinions. 

An arranged marriage is more the objective situation between partners - between strangers. 

My opinion of him is completely valid. _To me_ he is and has always been unattractive. All (public) aspects of him.

Why you feel the need to challenge that is confusing. Nevertheless - done. 





ConanHub said:


> Objectively, he wasn't a bad looking man. Your dislike of him seems to mostly come from his mannerisms and attitude.:smile2:
> 
> I don't think he was ever hunky but not bad solely based on looks.


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