# Bad night



## Feeling_bad

Hello, new member to this forum. So I've been with my wife for 12 years, we have a 6-yr old daughter and I would say overall, we've had a strong marriage. Last night we had a small party at the house. Three other couples came over, one of which included my wife's best friend. Needless to say drinks were flowing, and we were playing an adult board game. My wife's best friend's husband wasn't playing and he seemed to be drinking more heavily than the rest of us. My wife was drinking pretty heavily too. Throughout the night, my wife and her friend's husband would leave the room together, often to check on our kids (who were playing in my daughter's room). My wife's best friend would comment about it in a playful manner, and I didn't think much of it (my wife has NEVER given me a reason not to trust her). Well I guess that was naive of me, for I eventually walked by my hallway bathroom (in which the door was closed), and realized I hadn't seen my wife and this guy in a while. I knocked on the bathroom door, and the guy said he was in there. I double checked to see if I could find my wife anywhere, but couldn't. Eventually, I opened the door (which was left unlocked), and there was my wife and this guy making out, his pants off with d#ck in my wife's hand, and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks. I broke it up, told all our guests to leave, and my wife passed out after I yelled at her for a few minutes.

So now I obviously have this image in my head of my wife with another guy. I have no doubt that if I had walked in there 5-10 minutes later, I would have seen either oral sex or penetration going on. I am utterly distraught now...I can't sleep, eat or do anything. My wife has spent the day apologizing profusely to me, blaming the alcohol, and begging me not to go the divorce route. I don't want to divorce my wife, and I know this is just a day old, but I don't know how I could be with someone who did this to me, in our home, while I'm here. Not only is the cheating part wrong, but I feel so disrespected and so embarrassed by this. My wife promises that she is happy with me, and I did nothing to drive her towards cheating. She blames the event completely on alcohol. While alcohol is no excuse, I have to admit it was a factor. My wife has promised never to drink again.

So, based on this, what would you all do? Try to work it out, or consider divorce. Like I said, I don't want to divorce her, but how can I stay with someone who does that to me, and has no respect for what we've built together over the last 12 years. If I stay with her, I have to get the image of her and this guy out of my head. How do I do that?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Cool down first. Give yourself a few days to a week or whatever time you need to process this. Do not speak to your wife about the issue unless she brings it up. Basically a 180, this is indeed serious. A possible gateway to spontaneous cheating affairs. No more alcohol amongst friends of any in any circumstance, only if its both of you alone. Do not take up drinking to get through this. Dont rush to trust. She needs to know the seriousness of this mistake. I am appalled that this happened in your house, what gall!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

While what she did was wrong, I do buy her excuse. However there's a huge lack of marital boundaries in your household. Take your time and don't make any rash decisions. In a good/bad way, be relieved that you nipped it in the bud before anything "serious" happened. 

Her giving up alcohol is a good first step.


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## CanadianGuy

I'd be checking her phone and emails etc. Talk to the OM's wife to get her take on it. It may go a lot deeper than last night. How often do those two "hang out" ? Does your wife ever go to her bf's house..as in "i'm just going over to bfs for a bit". of course you'd think nothing of it as she is visiting her friend.


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## Feeling_bad

Complexity, can you expand upon what you mean by lack of marital boundaries. Thanks...

Canadian Guy, not sure what "OM" is, but I assume you mean the wife of the guy. She is distraught as well. She and her kids are staying at a friend's house now. Her and I have been texting each other throughout the day. My wife had only gone to their house without me once, and that was 2 weeks ago when I was away for work. According to the OM's wife, there was flirting going on, but there was also a lot of alcohol drunk that night as well. The OM actually called my wife this morning to apologize while I was gone. I did check my wife's phone and noticed the phone number had not been set up as one of her contacts and the conversation lasted less than a minute. So my gut was there was some playful flirting between them, and I think this was the first time it got physical. If you think it could be otherwise, please let me know.


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## Complexity

Feeling_bad said:


> Complexity, can you expand upon what you mean by lack of marital boundaries. Thanks...


Playing adult boardgames with another couple, letting your wife get sh!tfaced and allowing another man to accompany her upstairs (repeatedly) not to mention the (in retrospect) not so innocent flirting.....

Putting those together;horny, drunk and alone isn't gonna end very well.


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## CanadianGuy

OM = other man.


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## Feeling_bad

Complexity, hindsight being what it is, you're absolutely right. But again, my wife never gave me a reason to mistrust her. Lesson certainly learned. Thanks.


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## SomedayDig

Damn dude...sorry to hear that horrible story. Unfortunately, that image is gonna be with you for a long, long time. While I never saw my wife and her xOM together, my imagination - which can sometimes be worse than real life, has played these mind movies for me often since I discovered her 5 year long affair on 3/6.

I agree with Complexity. She might be happy with you but it seems like she pole vaulted over the boundary line...and not just this time. Since they're friends of yours, the "innocent" flirting has probably been there for a while. It might seem like no big deal...I mean, everybody does it, right?! Yes. To a degree.

But booze and flirting is a dangerous combination. Matter of fact, it's how my wife met the xOM. At a party.

And it started with just a kiss.

I'm glad you caught this quickly, though I'm saddened that you had to actually see it with your own two eyes. Read a lot of threads here about infidelity. Some are gonna be worse than yours and others might not seem so bad. Learn.

Also, look for the book "Not Just Friends" and read the "newbie" post at the top of the Infidelity section. Both are a tremendous resource.

Oh...and make sure your wife reads this stuff too. You BOTH need to be fully on board to reconcile.


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## Malaise

Complexity said:


> Playing adult boardgames with another couple, letting your wife get sh!tfaced and allowing another man to accompany her upstairs (repeatedly) not to mention the (in retrospect) no so innocent flirting.....
> 
> Putting those together;horny, drunk and alone isn't gonna end very well.


Op

Obviously you were not suspicious enough. Normally thats good, we all feel we should trust our SO. I can't fault you too much there.

However, you should strongly question why your wife so quickly ,even under the influence, so compeletly shed her vows to you, all of her inhibitions, to do this in her own house with you and everyone else present.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

As many thought that theor wives gave them no reason, they were wrong, dead wrong. It does seem to be dofferent for your specific case because of the factors and conditions this scenario was set on, but still be weary, do not rush to trust. This is grave infidelity. If she told you she kissed a man its as serious as a fully sexually charged affair. Its infidelity at its core, and now that the forbidden fruit has been tasted you need to kill this brewing addiction of dopamine and keep it at bay forever. It can resurface and overwhelm you in the fuure, this R (reconciliation) must be fulfilled like after any affair. No rug sweeping of anykind! What if you did the same, how would she feel? Being drunk is not an excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Actually, something just struck me. It probably was a moment of drunken stupidity.

Anyone could have found them, either of their spouses or your children. So perhaps not planned, then?


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## Feeling_bad

MattMatt said:


> Actually, something just struck me. It probably was a moment of drunken stupidity.
> 
> Anyone could have found them, either of their spouses or your children. So perhaps not planned, then?


I've considered that. I know alcohol was a factor, because of how stupidly planned it was. The kids were playing in the room next door, and the bathroom wasn't even locked. I knocked on the door and the OM answered, then it was probably another 10 seconds before I walked in. If they had their wits about them, I would think they would have stopped, especially with the door unlocked, but they were just going at it when I walked in.


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## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> I've considered that. I know alcohol was a factor, because of how stupidly planned it was. The kids were playing in the room next door, and the bathroom wasn't even locked. I knocked on the door and the OM answered, then it was probably another 10 seconds before I walked in. If they had their wits about them, I would think they would have stopped, especially with the door unlocked, but they were just going at it when I walked in.


Either that or there is more previous contact than you know. Enough that with a little booze as lube they felt comfortable fooling around. My advice is to tell your wife and OM you accept the apologies and are ready to rug sweep. Then VAR and GPS her car. Keylog her computer and bug her phone. You need to do this even if it occurred just in the manner they said. Why? Because your wife was triggering "new guy" brain chemistry (think natural crack) buzz. She may get to thinking about that and want to go back for more, even while feeling truly remorseful. Your ride is just beginning.


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## Feeling_bad

SomedayDig said:


> Damn dude...sorry to hear that horrible story. Unfortunately, that image is gonna be with you for a long, long time. While I never saw my wife and her xOM together, my imagination - which can sometimes be worse than real life, has played these mind movies for me often since I discovered her 5 year long affair on 3/6.
> 
> I agree with Complexity. She might be happy with you but it seems like she pole vaulted over the boundary line...and not just this time. Since they're friends of yours, the "innocent" flirting has probably been there for a while. It might seem like no big deal...I mean, everybody does it, right?! Yes. To a degree.
> 
> But booze and flirting is a dangerous combination. Matter of fact, it's how my wife met the xOM. At a party.
> 
> And it started with just a kiss.
> 
> I'm glad you caught this quickly, though I'm saddened that you had to actually see it with your own two eyes. Read a lot of threads here about infidelity. Some are gonna be worse than yours and others might not seem so bad. Learn.
> 
> Also, look for the book "Not Just Friends" and read the "newbie" post at the top of the Infidelity section. Both are a tremendous resource.
> 
> Oh...and make sure your wife reads this stuff too. You BOTH need to be fully on board to reconcile.


Thanks for the input. I figured that image would stick with me. I have to learn to cope with it, because that's going to be a big part of my ability to reconcile.


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## Chaparral

Does she go on Girls Night Out at all with her friends?


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## Feeling_bad

chapparal said:


> Does she go on Girls Night Out at all with her friends?


Yes, sometimes. But that will end...she has agreed to never drink again...just with me and only me. I will definitely hold her to it if we ultimately reconcile past this.


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## Malaise

MattMatt said:


> Actually, something just struck me. It probably was a moment of drunken stupidity.
> 
> Anyone could have found them, either of their spouses or your children. So perhaps not planned, then?


Probably was just drunken stupidty. But who, when drunk, so easily loses control of their inhibitions, seeing where they were and who else was present.

There must have been something there ready to be unleashed when the wall of inhibition came down. An EA perhaps.


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## anonim

Feeling_bad said:


> Hello, new member to this forum. So I've been with my wife for 12 years, we have a 6-yr old daughter and I would say overall, we've had a strong marriage. Last night we had a small party at the house. Three other couples came over, one of which included my wife's best friend. Needless to say drinks were flowing, and we were playing an adult board game. My wife's best friend's husband wasn't playing and he seemed to be drinking more heavily than the rest of us. My wife was drinking pretty heavily too. Throughout the night, my wife and her friend's husband would leave the room together, often to check on our kids (who were playing in my daughter's room). My wife's best friend would comment about it in a playful manner, and I didn't think much of it (my wife has NEVER given me a reason not to trust her). Well I guess that was naive of me, for I eventually walked by my hallway bathroom (in which the door was closed), and realized I hadn't seen my wife and this guy in a while. I knocked on the bathroom door, and the guy said he was in there. I double checked to see if I could find my wife anywhere, but couldn't. Eventually, I opened the door (which was left unlocked), and there was my wife and this guy making out, his pants off with d#ck in my wife's hand, and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks. I broke it up, told all our guests to leave, and my wife passed out after I yelled at her for a few minutes.
> 
> So now I obviously have this image in my head of my wife with another guy. I have no doubt that if I had walked in there 5-10 minutes later, I would have seen either oral sex or penetration going on. I am utterly distraught now...I can't sleep, eat or do anything. My wife has spent the day apologizing profusely to me, blaming the alcohol, and begging me not to go the divorce route. I don't want to divorce my wife, and I know this is just a day old, but I don't know how I could be with someone who did this to me, in our home, while I'm here. Not only is the cheating part wrong, but I feel so disrespected and so embarrassed by this. My wife promises that she is happy with me, and I did nothing to drive her towards cheating. She blames the event completely on alcohol. While alcohol is no excuse, I have to admit it was a factor. My wife has promised never to drink again.
> 
> So, based on this, what would you all do? Try to work it out, or consider divorce. Like I said, I don't want to divorce her, but how can I stay with someone who does that to me, and has no respect for what we've built together over the last 12 years. If I stay with her, I have to get the image of her and this guy out of my head. How do I do that?


i dont think alcohol brings out what isnt already inside.


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## Feeling_bad

Malaise said:


> Probably was just drunken stupidty. But who, when drunk, so easily loses control of their inhibitions, seeing where they were and who else was present.
> 
> There must have been something there ready to be unleashed when the wall of inhibition came down. An EA perhaps.


What could have been the signs of an EA? Before last night, my wife never spoke about the OM. I asked the OM's wife, and she says she never saw any signs her husband was interested in my wife.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> Complexity, can you expand upon what you mean by lack of marital boundaries. Thanks...
> 
> Canadian Guy, not sure what "OM" is, but I assume you mean the wife of the guy. She is distraught as well. She and her kids are staying at a friend's house now. Her and I have been texting each other throughout the day. My wife had only gone to their house without me once, and that was 2 weeks ago when I was away for work. According to the OM's wife, there was flirting going on, but there was also a lot of alcohol drunk that night as well. The OM actually called my wife this morning to apologize while I was gone. I did check my wife's phone and noticed the phone number had not been set up as one of her contacts and the conversation lasted less than a minute. So my gut was there was some playful flirting between them, and I think this was the first time it got physical. If you think it could be otherwise, please let me know.


I am not so sure nothing happened at this 1st party 2 weeks ago. You need to ask your wife about that night -- though my guess she is going to lie about it. My guess is that something happened that night -- and they got away with it as no one went to find them -- so they just continued again -- not expecting you to walk in. 

Just seems strange that they would have progressed this far with both their pants being down -- if this was the first time. 

Also, how do you know that the other man apologized to your wife. Did you hear the apology -- cause if she told you -- my guess that is a lie as well. 

I would dig a little deeper to see if there was something going on longer. Being drunk is absolutely no excuse -- and you had absolutely nothing to do with her cheating.

Also, cut off all contact with these friends -- because he is not anyone's friend if he would do this in your home.

I used the word cheating because she did cheat on you -- don't think she didn't. If you hadn't walked in on her -- they would have completed the deed and it would have continued. I am still not sure it won't continue -- only you will know by watching and observing.

It pains me to read these stories -- and I wonder WTF are people thinking when they hurt others without even thinking about you or your daughter.

You trust in your wife was at 100% -- and now it is at 0%. If she is truly remorseful -- she will have to earn that trust back from you.

I am not saying to do anything rash -- just investigate further -- look at her phone, her computer, her fb page, etc -- anyway in which the two of them could have been communicating. BTW -- look for a 2nd phone she may have.

I don't want to alarm you -- but something about this one time in your home with you, his wife and the kids around just doesn't add up to me.

You may be able to forgive – but you will never be able to forget.

Good luck -- keep posting here -- you have found a great site for support -- no matter what happens.


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## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> What could have been the signs of an EA? Before last night, my wife never spoke about the OM. I asked the OM's wife, and she says she never saw any signs her husband was interested in my wife.


How long have they known each other and how did they meet?


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## Feeling_bad

Machiavelli said:


> How long have they known each other and how did they meet?


Well we're a military family, living in a military community. We've actually been here about a 1 1/2 years, and my wife was friends with the OM's wife for about a year. Our daughters were in Kindergarten together. I say they're best friends, but I mean it contextually with how long we've been here. The OM and I were mere acquaintances. The wives mostly hung out at the playground with the kids. Only within the last couple of months did we start hanging out at each other's houses. Only one time did my wife go there without me (I was away for work), but the OM's wife was there. Also, my wife and the OM's wife are stay at home moms, and both the OM and I are at work on base every day. I really don't see time where my wife could have hung out exclusively with the OM on any type of regular basis to develop a relationship. I know I sound like I'm in denial about that possibility, but those are really the facts.


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## Acabado

Sorry man.


> The OM actually called my wife this morning to apologize


.. that or to conoct stories. Cheaters lie. Always. If they were making out at your house, right under your noses.. why do you believe they are not involved for a while? Yes, at their house, at a car, stealing 15 min here and there, for quickies.
Check the phone bill, keylog the PC before the clening up starts.
Demand total NC for now on and full transparence.
Sorry they destroyed the friendship of the two families.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> Well we're a military family, living in a military community. We've actually been here about a 1 1/2 years, and my wife was friends with the OM's wife for about a year. Our daughters were in Kindergarten together. I say they're best friends, but I mean it contextually with how long we've been here. The OM and I were mere acquaintances. The wives mostly hung out at the playground with the kids. Only within the last couple of months did we start hanging out at each other's houses. Only one time did my wife go there without me (I was away for work), but the OM's wife was there. Also, my wife and the OM's wife are stay at home moms, and both the OM and I are at work on base every day. I really don't see time where my wife could have hung out exclusively with the OM on any type of regular basis to develop a relationship. I know I sound like I'm in denial about that possibility, but those are really the facts.


FeelingBad -- thanks for serving our country.

Not to make you feel any worse than you do from your response and this situation, but the only thing you know with 100% certainty now about your wife and OM is what you wrote and saw -- "there was my wife and this guy making out, his pants off with d#ck in my wife's hand, and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks."

Again this is just my opinion.

Just keep an open mind !!


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## Chaparral

You may want to pursue a polygraph test to check out this instance and possibly others. GNO's almost always turn out badly in my experience. Dress up, drink,flirt, drink, dance, drink, parking lot. Same w/BNOs.


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## Feeling_bad

Acabado said:


> Sorry man.
> .. that or to conoct stories. Cheaters lie. Always. If they were making out at your house, right under your noses.. why do you believe they are not involved for a while? Yes, at their house, at a car, stealing 15 min here and there, for quickies.
> Check the phone bill, keylog the PC before the clening up starts.
> Demand total NC for now on and full transparence.
> Sorry they destroyed the friendship of the two families.


I will look and pray I don't find anything. My wife sweared this was a one time thing, and told me to check everything of hers...phone, FB, etc. I understand things could have been cleaned and I should have checked last night after she passed out, but I was in such shock. But even if she has cleaned everything out, if she and the OM had a relationship before, I imagine they will covertly continue to try, and I'll keep an sharp eye out for it, as will the OM's wife after I speak with her about it. Thanks...


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## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> Well we're a military family, living in a military community.


I take it this is the modern lingo for on-base married housing. Uggh.



Feeling_bad said:


> I really don't see time where my wife could have hung out exclusively with the OM on any type of regular basis to develop a relationship.


Nobody ever does see where they find the time. But they day. Commence surveillance operations. Other than that, assume it's a one-off. I agree with you that GNO privileges are permanently revoked.


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## jfv

I don't understand the compulsion for some couples to mix alcohol and 'adult board games'. And being okay with some guy you barely know who's drunk, going off with your wife to other rooms. I guess i'm just the territorial and paranoid type but i just don't get that level of comfort that some men have with other men.


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## Feeling_bad

jfv said:


> I don't understand the compulsion for some couples to mix alcohol and 'adult board games'. And being okay with some guy you barely know who's drunk, going off with your wife to other rooms. I guess i'm just the territorial and paranoid type but i just don't get that level of comfort that some men have with other men.


It's a level of comfort I HAD with my wife after 12 years and never a reason to mistrust her. Plus, if you knew the layout of my house, you wouldn't think there would be a concern. Obviously I was wrong on all accounts. Lesson learned the hard way.


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## jfv

I feel for you. You'll get alot of help here.


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## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> I will look and pray I don't find anything. My wife sweared this was a one time thing, and told me to check everything of hers...phone, FB, etc. I understand things could have been cleaned and I should have checked last night after she passed out, but I was in such shock. But even if she has cleaned everything out, if she and the OM had a relationship before, I imagine they will covertly continue to try, and I'll keep an sharp eye out for it, as will the OM's wife after I speak with her about it. Thanks...


yeah right. So is she the kind of girl that put out on the first date? Nope - then you know the truth - they've been playing this game for a while and making a fool of you.

Obviously the OM is out of your live FOREVER. 

I find it interesting the OM called your wife to apologize and not you or his wife. He was worried about her - obviously they've been in contact a long time and he is worried about what she is going through - not even his own wife.

do not let your wife convince you this is a one time thing. As I asked before, was she the type to put out on the first date? Well if not, then do you believe this was their first date? I doubt it, what I believe is they got off on doing it with you and his wife around. They've been at it for quite a while and they are looking to spice things up by doing it with their spouses around.


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## Chaparral

What is an adult board game? Did this prime the pump?

The OM wasn't playing why? Then your wife wasn't playing and they just happened to be checking on the kids st the same time.

And to drunk/excited to lock the door.


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## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> It's a level of comfort I HAD with my wife after 12 years and never a reason to mistrust her. Plus, if you knew the layout of my house, you wouldn't think there would be a concern. Obviously I was wrong on all accounts. Lesson learned the hard way.


So look at her, and see her with clarity. This is a woman who thought she could take her boyfriend into a room and have sex with him while her husband was right outside.

While I agree alcohol fueled the bad decisions it isn't what brought them together, it was only what made them think they could cheat in the same house when you where there.]

You saw with your own two eyes what kind of woman she is and what she was willing to do for her BF in you house.

divorce her asap and upgrade to a woman with actual morals.


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## Feeling_bad

Shaggy said:


> I find it interesting the OM called your wife to apologize and not you or his wife. He was worried about her - obviously they've been in contact a long time and he is worried about what she is going through - not even his own wife.


Actually that's not true. His wife stayed at a friend's last night, then came home this morning to get some things before leaving again. I spoke with the OM's wife, and she said he was crying and begging her not to leave. Also, he used his wife's phone to call me and apologize. He called my wife about a half hour later...I assume after his wife took her suitcase and left.


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## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> Actually that's not true. His wife stayed at a friend's last night, then came home this morning to get some things before leaving again. I spoke with the OM's wife, and she said he was crying and begging her not to leave. Also, he used his wife's phone to call me and apologize. He called my wife about a half hour later...I assume after his wife took her suitcase and left.


It's still telling that he called her at all. If he was trying to safe his own marriage she should be last person on earth he should be calling.

Go look at her cell phone and have her take a polygraph before you even consider talking to her.


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## Feeling_bad

Feeling_bad said:


> Actually that's not true. His wife stayed at a friend's last night, then came home this morning to get some things before leaving again. I spoke with the OM's wife, and she said he was crying and begging her not to leave. Also, he used his wife's phone to call me and apologize. He called my wife about a half hour later...I assume after his wife took her suitcase and left.


Also, I want to note the the OM called my wife while I was gone for a moment. My wife told me about it as soon as I got home. I immediately checked her phone, and noted that the number was not set up on her Contact list, and I hadn't seen any history in her phone with the number for texts or calls. I know she could have deleted those. I guess I'm really just hoping this was a one-time drunk and stupid event. My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions. All the more reason I suppose that I shouldn't have let her walk off alone with this guy. But isn't it possible they just got overcome by the moment? I'm still infuriated with her nonetheless, but it's better in my mind to know this was potentially a case of drunken idiocy, then a relationship that had been building up behind my back.


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## Malaise

anonim said:


> i dont think alcohol brings out what isnt already inside.


:iagree:


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## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> What could have been the signs of an EA? Before last night, my wife never spoke about the OM. I asked the OM's wife, and she says she never saw any signs her husband was interested in my wife.


This makes it even stranger to me. No interest in either of them, some booze then they are off to the races


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## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> Also, I want to note the the OM called my wife while I was gone for a moment. My wife told me about it as soon as I got home. I immediately checked her phone, and noted that the number was not set up on her Contact list, and I hadn't seen any history in her phone with the number for texts or calls. I know she could have deleted those. I guess I'm really just hoping this was a one-time drunk and stupid event. My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions. All the more reason I suppose that I shouldn't have let her walk off alone with this guy. But isn't it possible they just got overcome by the moment? I'm still infuriated with her nonetheless, but it's better in my mind to know this was potentially a case of drunken idiocy, then a relationship that had been building up behind my back.


And he had her cell phone number how???


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## jfv

I have been 'overcome by the moment' with women i've barely known quiet a few times so its possible. But being that there is this connection with your wife and OM's wife you need to dig as much as you can. Either way, she has a lot of work to do if you are going to reconcile, and that includes losing her best friend which shouldn't be that difficult at this point since OM is her husband.


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## Feeling_bad

Shaggy said:


> And he had her cell phone number how???


He had used his wife's phone to call me earlier. It is possible he got the number from there. My wife's number and my number are off by just one digit, so not too hard to memorize.

Before you ask, his wife had my number, because we exchanged numbers last night, so we can help each other cope with this.


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## Feeling_bad

jfv said:


> I have been 'overcome by the moment' with women i've barely known quiet a few times so its possible. But being that there is this connection with your wife and OM's wife you need to dig as much as you can. Either way, she has a lot of work to do if you are going to reconcile, and that includes losing her best friend which shouldn't be that difficult at this point since OM is her husband.


Agreed. Both the OM's wife and I are investigating both ends to see if something was developing before this occurred. My wife effed up big time with me and her friend. Thanks...


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## Feeling_bad

Does anyone have tips to help me cope with the image I saw last night? Someone mentioned the book Not Just Friends. But if I decide to try and reconcile with my wife, I'm going to need help trying to block what I saw out of my head.


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## jfv

Malaise said:


> This makes it even stranger to me. No interest in either of them, some booze then they are off to the races


It's not that strange. They were physically attracted to eachother(that only takes a second) the alcohol eroded their boundaries, one of them made a move and that was it. In my experience that is usually more than enough.


----------



## Malaise

jfv said:


> It's not that strange. They were physically attracted to eachother(that only takes a second) the alcohol eroded their boundaries, one of them made a move and that was it. In my experience that is usually more than enough.


In that case their boundaries were paper thin to begin with. The OP should really question his W's integrity if a second's attraction plus booze equal cheating


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Hello, new member to this forum. So I've been with my wife for 12 years, we have a 6-yr old daughter and I would say overall, we've had a strong marriage. Last night we had a small party at the house. Three other couples came over, one of which included my wife's best friend. Needless to say drinks were flowing, and we were playing an adult board game. My wife's best friend's husband wasn't playing and he seemed to be drinking more heavily than the rest of us. My wife was drinking pretty heavily too. Throughout the night, my wife and her friend's husband would leave the room together, often to check on our kids (who were playing in my daughter's room). My wife's best friend would comment about it in a playful manner, and I didn't think much of it (my wife has NEVER given me a reason not to trust her). Well I guess that was naive of me, for I eventually walked by my hallway bathroom (in which the door was closed), and realized I hadn't seen my wife and this guy in a while. I knocked on the bathroom door, and the guy said he was in there. I double checked to see if I could find my wife anywhere, but couldn't. Eventually, I opened the door (which was left unlocked), and there was my wife and this guy making out, his pants off with d#ck in my wife's hand, and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks. I broke it up, told all our guests to leave, and my wife passed out after I yelled at her for a few minutes.
> 
> So now I obviously have this image in my head of my wife with another guy. I have no doubt that if I had walked in there 5-10 minutes later, I would have seen either oral sex or penetration going on. I am utterly distraught now...I can't sleep, eat or do anything. My wife has spent the day apologizing profusely to me, blaming the alcohol, and begging me not to go the divorce route. I don't want to divorce my wife, and I know this is just a day old, but I don't know how I could be with someone who did this to me, in our home, while I'm here. Not only is the cheating part wrong, but I feel so disrespected and so embarrassed by this. My wife promises that she is happy with me, and I did nothing to drive her towards cheating. She blames the event completely on alcohol. While alcohol is no excuse, I have to admit it was a factor. My wife has promised never to drink again.
> 
> So, based on this, what would you all do? Try to work it out, or consider divorce. Like I said, I don't want to divorce her, but how can I stay with someone who does that to me, and has no respect for what we've built together over the last 12 years. If I stay with her, I have to get the image of her and this guy out of my head. How do I do that?


Have not read the rest of thread yet. 

My first thought is how badly did you hurt this guy? While it is not PC to comment on this .. sorry I would have beaten the bejesus out of a man who came to my house and tried to f'ck my wife in my house down the hall from the children. No doubt this was part of the thrill.

What was the adult game you guys were playing? Did this involve some form of harmless or not so hamless sexual play? Just curious for the sake of the environment.

It seems BTW that this is not a new thing between them. He did not want to play because he wanted to do what they ended up doing. Now perhaps it is new between them but if so then I would insist that this is something she regularly does with other men and you just caught it this time.

BTW, any possible excuse related to alcohol is total BS.

While I would have beaten the guy senseless and thrown him out of my house in no way would I be putting all the blame on him. This was not her first rodeo. This would be a deal breaker for me ... YMMV. Others can tell you how to reconsile after this.

How did he best friend feel about this? Faithful wives are not this easy ... not even with alcohol.


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Complexity, can you expand upon what you mean by lack of marital boundaries. Thanks...
> 
> Canadian Guy, not sure what "OM" is, but I assume you mean the wife of the guy. She is distraught as well. She and her kids are staying at a friend's house now. Her and I have been texting each other throughout the day. My wife had only gone to their house without me once, and that was 2 weeks ago when I was away for work. According to the OM's wife, there was flirting going on, but there was also a lot of alcohol drunk that night as well. The OM actually called my wife this morning to apologize while I was gone. I did check my wife's phone and noticed the phone number had not been set up as one of her contacts and the conversation lasted less than a minute. So my gut was there was some playful flirting between them, and I think this was the first time it got physical. If you think it could be otherwise, please let me know.


Absurd. Sorry people do not just start jerking on erections and pulling down pants in the bathroom because they had too much to drink. You are very correct in that there would have been at least oral sex but likely full blown sex in a few minutes.


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Well we're a military family, living in a military community. We've actually been here about a 1 1/2 years, and my wife was friends with the OM's wife for about a year. Our daughters were in Kindergarten together. I say they're best friends, but I mean it contextually with how long we've been here. The OM and I were mere acquaintances. The wives mostly hung out at the playground with the kids. Only within the last couple of months did we start hanging out at each other's houses. Only one time did my wife go there without me (I was away for work), but the OM's wife was there. Also, my wife and the OM's wife are stay at home moms, and both the OM and I are at work on base every day. I really don't see time where my wife could have hung out exclusively with the OM on any type of regular basis to develop a relationship. I know I sound like I'm in denial about that possibility, but those are really the facts.


Away for work. Hmmm. What des that mean exactly? Deployed? I get the sense it was more than just the night but am not sure. If it away for more than the night then this explains a lot. Having lived in a millitary community I know what goes on. And what you described would not surprise me at all. It is all too common. But it is not something that would occur out of the blue with just some drinking.

If your wife gets that horny while drinking it boggles the imagination what she is used to doing when you are deployed and she goes out to party.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by chapparal View Post
> You may want to pursue a polygraph test to check out this instance and possibly others. GNO's almost always turn out badly in my experience. Dress up, drink,flirt, drink, dance, drink, parking lot. Same w/BNOs.


Multiply that by 1000 in a military community.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Feeling_bad View Post
> Actually that's not true. His wife stayed at a friend's last night, then came home this morning to get some things before leaving again. I spoke with the OM's wife, and she said he was crying and begging her not to leave. Also, he used his wife's phone to call me and apologize. He called my wife about a half hour later...I assume after his wife took her suitcase and left.


He got caught. He is trying to placate his wife and the husband of his GF. So he can stay married and so he can stay in contact with his GF. At the least this is damage control. What guy does this? I guess a guy who thinks he can just deny and apologize.

Unless you heard what was said on the phone you do not know what he said. For sure they had to get their stories straight.

So does this guy deploy with you? You know and I know guys get on different shifts and there are duty nights and so on. For all you know he has been to your home many times before.


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## Jibril

Entropy3000 said:


> Absurd. Sorry people do not just start jerking on erections and pulling down pants in the bathroom because they had too much to drink. You are very correct in that there would have been at least oral sex but likely full blown sex in a few minutes.


I wanted to post in this thread just to point this out. This "sorry" wife was in the bathroom with the other man with her _and_ his pants pulled down, and with his d*ck in her hands as she made out with him. 

Her husband, Feeling_bad, had _just_ knocked on the door prior to his discovery. Instead of snapping out of their tryst and trying to fix themselves, _they carried on_. She continued to make out with him and stroke his d*ck, while her husband was outside calling for her.

Oh, yes. I'm _sure_ she's "sorry."


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## Malaise

After reading the posts made after my own last post, I have to believe something was going on for awhile(duh).

I previously mentioned an ongoing EA and the OP shot that down. Now I have to think that it was PA for awhile.

No way that two people with little interest in each other act that boldly in a house with spouses and children, notwithstanding alcohol, if they were not already intimate


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## AlphaHalf

First of all, tell the OM to stop calling your wife!!!!! He has already done enough. You also know that you can report him to his chain of command for being with your wife. Both of you are Soldiers and he should have known better. 

Alcohol is not an excuse. If they were going up and down the stairs all night checking on the kids then I'm guessing they were getting progressively drunk each time. Something led up to that moment before they lost control. If there sober enough to check on the kids, then there able to not engage in a sexual encounter behind there spouses. 

Do you think this issue is over just because you stopped it from going any further? Imagine if you didn't check? What lies would your wife keep from you then? Where you ever deployed and had any suspicions of your wife back home?? 

IMHO. Both of you should get a STD test and go to counseling. Getting a STD test is a major wake up call for her actions. Then conduct the usual cheating spouse monitoring. I would report the other man to his unit, I don't care if it was the first time or not. If your caught with a DWI in the military, there is zero tolerance, why should the *man who touches your wife *get a pass??????? That man was trusted into your household and violated your trust by cheating with your wife. Your wife is just as much to blame also.

(I'm surprised you didn't ask him what did the five knuckles say to the face)


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## aug

You get called away in the military. Your wife does girls night out (GNO). She drinks. She gets very horny when drunk.

Do a paternity test on your 6 year old daughter.


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## jfv

Multiply that by 1000 in a military community.
Why is it worse in a military community?


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## AlphaHalf

Everyone in the whole community will know about this incident. Especially in a military community. This will get back to the COC eventually. If your an NCO or Officer your Soldiers will hear about this too.There is no rug sweeping. You have to be decisive with whatever you decide. 

If your wife can do that while your in the house, imagine what she could do while you're deployed.


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## Wanting1

The military issue complicates this so much. You are most likely gone often. Imagine the scenario occurred and you were on 24h duty, in the field, at a training center, or deployed. You would have felt perfectly comfortable with her saying, "Hon, I'm having a few friends over for drinks and board games tonight. My bff will be here with her family. Just to relax and have fun." 

You would probably be happy that she was going to have fun with friends in a "safe" environment around people you could trust. But in this scenario, you are not there to walk in on them, which means they would have gone much farther. And a full-fledged affair would probably have started. 

I'm not saying this to hurt you. It's just how can she win back your trust when you have to be absent from your home on a regular basis and she has already shown herself willing to cheat in your own home with you present? Be careful and make sure there are real consequences to her actions. Something to make her think twice about all she has to lose if she repeats her behavior.


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## surfryhder

First off welcome. You truly are going through a rough time. Whatever you do it may be best to take a breather and think for a minute. There nothing that anyone can say to ease your pain. You mat want to see a counselor for yourself as soon as you can as you probably do not want to talk to any of your friends about it. It is Obvious that there has been some type of attraction there. Have you alerted the other man's wife?


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## costa200

Let's be real here. I have huge doubts that this just happened like this if there isn't already a story with your wife and the OM. This probably has more story behind it and the drinks just made them reckless... this time!

On a side note, i would probably go Dexter on that guy... With the kids in the house, in your house... holy crap!


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## Jonesey

Machiavelli said:


> Either that or there is more previous contact than you know. Enough that with a little booze as lube they felt comfortable fooling around. My advice is to tell your wife and OM you accept the apologies and are ready to rug sweep. Then VAR and GPS her car. Keylog her computer and bug her phone. You need to do this even if it occurred just in the manner they said. Why? Because your wife was triggering "new guy" brain chemistry (think natural crack) buzz. She may get to thinking about that and want to go back for more, even while feeling truly remorseful. Your ride is just beginning.


:iagree:

Look. 1 minute apology phone call to your wife? Oh please. What can have bee said in 1 min?

The call should have been to you.Something aint right here.


----------



## Jonesey

Jibril said:


> I wanted to post in this thread just to point this out. This "sorry" wife was in the bathroom with the other man with her _and_ his pants pulled down, and with his d*ck in her hands as she made out with him.
> 
> Her husband, Feeling_bad, had _just_ knocked on the door prior to his discovery. Instead of snapping out of their tryst and trying to fix themselves, _they carried on_.* She continued to make out with him and stroke his d*ck, while her husband was outside calling for her.*
> 
> That probably done after the quick sex part..
> 
> TMI here. guys really drunk can some time have hard time finish. if you know what i mean..Sorry to be to graphic.


----------



## hookares

Feeling bad, just one question. Have you ever kissed your wife again after this happened?
If so, how did you manage to not throw up?
After I found out what my ex had been doing all those years, I had to take a hit on some WildTurkey anytime something triggered my memory or I couldn't hold anything down.


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## Feeling_bad

Wow, just read all the comments written overnight. Does this forum always think worst case scenario? Ok, to answer some of the questions.

No I didn't beat the sh#t out of the guy. Trust me I wanted to, but in military housing, when the military police get involved, they take you in no matter what. I couldn't leave my 6-year old home alone with my drunk, passed out, wife, especially after what I saw. I had to take my daughter into account with that.

Was the OM's wife notified? Yes, she was there, although didn't see it. I told her everything, and her and I have been coping together through texts. We've also been dissecting the relationship between my wife and the OM to figure out if there was anything ever noticeable that would indicate an EA or PA before this event. Right now we haven't found anything. I've scoured my wife's cell phone, email, FB account and computer, and haven't found any contact with this guy. I will continue searching this.

When I say go to work, I mean going to my office which is literally 5 minutes down the road. Yes, I haven't deployed since 2010, and we didn't live here then, nor know the OM or his wife. 

As far as reporting this to the OM's chain of command, I would love to see him rot and his military career suffer, but you have to understand that if I do that, his wife and kids will suffer the consequences of lower pay, etc. If she ultimately decides to leave him, I may still do it, but if she wants to reconcile, I'm not going to do something that impacts her family's income.


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## Feeling_bad

AlphaHalf said:


> Do you think this issue is over just because you stopped it from going any further? Imagine if you didn't check? What lies would your wife keep from you then? Where you ever deployed and had any suspicions of your wife back home??


No, I've never been suspicious while deployed. Also, I've never been deployed while assigned here. I've deployed 4 times while married to my wife. Twice was early in our relationship. Although my daughter wasn't born yet, I did have custody of 2 children from a previous marriage, and my wife cared for both of them. She had a full time job doing that, plus we kept in contact regularly. The third time I deployed was for a year, and she moved in with her family while I was gone. She had my daughter to take care of (who was 1-2 years at the time), and we communicated regularly. Last time I deployed was 2010. Again she had my daughter to care for, and we Skyped almost daily. Never did anything suspicious come up.

I'm not trying to sugar coat anything, and I can understand something might have been going on with her and the OM before this incident, but I truly had no reason not to trust my wife before this. She's been a fantastic wife and mother, and there were no signs of any infidelity in the past. We're a single income family and I have tabs on our finances. There's never been any withdrawals or side bills (i.e. secret cell phone) that would make me suspicious of anything.

I am seeing a counselor tomorrow to get his thoughts on this, and see if reconciliation is a possibility. I do appreciate everyone's honest, candid (and sometimes difficult to read) feedback. While I agree with everyone that alcohol is not an excuse for this, it was a factor. I recognize that I need to figure out how alcohol would allow her to do this and take it as far as she did and as far as she was on her way to going, but the circumstances behind how it happened, and the complete, utter lack of judgement (i.e. in an unlocked bathroom next to my daughter's room) leads me to believe this was more alcohol related than the result of a relationship between the 2 of them. Nonetheless, because of your inputs, both the OM's wife and I will continue to monitor and see if anything was going on before and will go on after this incident. Thanks


----------



## Feeling_bad

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> The military issue complicates this so much. You are most likely gone often. Imagine the scenario occurred and you were on 24h duty, in the field, at a training center, or deployed. You would have felt perfectly comfortable with her saying, "Hon, I'm having a few friends over for drinks and board games tonight. My bff will be here with her family. Just to relax and have fun."
> 
> You would probably be happy that she was going to have fun with friends in a "safe" environment around people you could trust. But in this scenario, you are not there to walk in on them, which means they would have gone much farther. And a full-fledged affair would probably have started.
> 
> I'm not saying this to hurt you. It's just how can she win back your trust when you have to be absent from your home on a regular basis and she has already shown herself willing to cheat in your own home with you present? Be careful and make sure there are real consequences to her actions. Something to make her think twice about all she has to lose if she repeats her behavior.


Good input, and you're right, I would have been trusting of this type of scenario in the past. Not anymore. 

I had several conversations with my wife yesterday. She broke down and cried each time. During one of the conversations she spoke very mindfully of everything she knows she would lose if I divorced her and she seemed devastated by the thought. She has already promised never to drink alcohol again. I told her that if I decide to reconcile with her this time, that I will not hesitate to leave if she does this to me again.


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## Feeling_bad

hookares said:


> Feeling bad, just one question. Have you ever kissed your wife again after this happened?
> If so, how did you manage to not throw up?
> After I found out what my ex had been doing all those years, I had to take a hit on some WildTurkey anytime something triggered my memory or I couldn't hold anything down.


No I haven't kissed her. I haven't even fully decided I will reconcile with her. I'm seeing a counselor tomorrow to help with that decision. The thought of what I say continually plays in my head, and that makes me want to throw up.


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## Chaparral

Did she tell you how they ended up in the bathroom together in the first place? I thought he may have walked in on her.


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## Machiavelli

Jonesey said:


> .* She continued to make out with him and stroke his d*ck, while her husband was outside calling for her.*
> 
> That probably done after the quick sex part..
> 
> TMI here. guys really drunk can some time have hard time finish. if you know what i mean..Sorry to be to graphic.


Good catch. That explains the pants already down.


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## Shaggy

You and the OMW need to tell the pair of them that ANY contact or attempt to contact the other will not be tolerated. No more calls, texts, nothing.

It is very telling that she chose to keep on with him physically even when you were right outside the door and she knew it. She was betting on you not opening the door.

It's also telling what they were doing. Wouldn't they be kissing instead of pants down if this was a first time? They seemed to go from nothing to pants down awfully fast.


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## warlock07

How are you sure that this was the first time? maybe this was the first time they were stupid enough to get caught. They finally bold enough to do it when you were in the same house. 

Also, alcohol is not or never an excuse. I am surprised that TAM is buying the excuse.


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## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> Complexity, can you expand upon what you mean by lack of marital boundaries. Thanks...
> 
> Canadian Guy, not sure what "OM" is, but I assume you mean the wife of the guy. She is distraught as well. She and her kids are staying at a friend's house now. Her and I have been texting each other throughout the day. My wife had only gone to their house without me once, and that was 2 weeks ago when I was away for work. According to the OM's wife, there was flirting going on, but there was also a lot of alcohol drunk that night as well. The OM actually called my wife this morning to apologize while I was gone. I did check my wife's phone and noticed the phone number had not been set up as one of her contacts and the conversation lasted less than a minute. So my gut was there was some playful flirting between them, and I think this was the first time it got physical. If you think it could be otherwise, please let me know.


They were matching up stories for all you know!!


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## Feeling_bad

Shaggy said:


> You and the OMW need to tell the pair of them that ANY contact or attempt to contact the other will not be tolerated. No more calls, texts, nothing.
> 
> It is very telling that she chose to keep on with him physically even when you were right outside the door and she knew it. She was betting on you not opening the door.
> 
> It's also telling what they were doing. Wouldn't they be kissing instead of pants down if this was a first time? They seemed to go from nothing to pants down awfully fast.


To your first point, already done. After my wife told me the OM called her to apologize, I told her that's the last call she will take from him. Next time she better just hang up and tell me about it.

When I opened the door, my wife was so out of it, she didn't even say anything. In a zombified mode she just pulled her pants back up and went straight to our bedroom. She passed out shortly thereafter. The OM was out of it too, mumbling a bunch of sh#t to me before I kicked him out of the house.

To your last point, I can't recall how long they had been gone from the room we were all hanging out in. Throughout the night they disappeared. A couple of times, I did see them in the kids room checking on them (which further secured my trust in her). The last time, I don't think they were gone from the room so long that they could have done the dirty deed. I think they were just getting the deed started...kissing first, and clothes starting to come off. My wife was actually on her period, so she would have had to pull the string first. I looked around for any sign of that and didn't see anything.


----------



## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> Also, I want to note the the OM called my wife while I was gone for a moment. My wife told me about it as soon as I got home. I immediately checked her phone, and noted that the number was not set up on her Contact list, and I hadn't seen any history in her phone with the number for texts or calls. I know she could have deleted those. I guess I'm really just hoping this was a one-time drunk and stupid event. My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions. All the more reason I suppose that I shouldn't have let her walk off alone with this guy. But isn't it possible they just got overcome by the moment? I'm still infuriated with her nonetheless, but it's better in my mind to know this was potentially a case of drunken idiocy, then a relationship that had been building up behind my back.


No


----------



## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> How are you sure that this was the first time? maybe this was the first time they were stupid enough to get caught. They finally bold enough to do it when you were in the same house.
> 
> Also, alcohol is not or never an excuse. I am surprised that TAM is buying the excuse.


I don't know this is the first time, it's just all the signs point to it. The OM's wife and I are trying to make this determination together and neither of us could see any opportunity when they could have done anything in the past.

Agreed, alcohol is no excuse for this. I've been drunk as a skunk before as well and never had a thought to cheat on my wife, although, I may have flirted once or twice to where it made my wife upset in the past. So I do understand how alcohol makes one more bold, but never to the point of where I saw her take it.


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## warlock07

As much immature as this sounds, I wish you could give the OM the same image he gave you.


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## warlock07

What phone does she have?


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## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> What phone does she have?


She has one cell phone that I've checked and am continuing to check. I checked the phone yesterday after the OM called her to apologize, and noticed that the phone number had not been set up on her contacts.


----------



## aug

Is there a possibility your wife may have done similar quickie at some other place with some other men? On her GNO?


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## Feeling_bad

aug said:


> Is there a possibility your wife may have done similar quickie at some other place with some other men? On her GNO?


Her friend who's the OM's wife is always with her on GNO, so I don't think so. But I'm now seeing how irresponsible my wife is when drunk, so I'm going to confront her today about other drunken times in the past.


----------



## snap

Ask the OMW first, if she knows any rumor she'll spill the beans now.


----------



## aug

Feeling_bad said:


> Her friend who's the OM's wife is always with her on GNO, so I don't think so. But I'm now seeing how irresponsible my wife is when drunk, so I'm going to confront her today about other drunken times in the past.



If she did, she may not want to tell you.

You may have to bluff her. Say, for example, the OM's wife is now saying she is not going to cover for her now and you know. She needs to come clean if the marriage is to have any chance.


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## Shaggy

Have you considered getting a polygraph test done?


----------



## happyman64

Feeling Bad

You have gotten some really good advice.

Can I make one suggestion.

Calm down and use the time you have to get your emotions under control.

Go speak with the counselor. But do not rush to any judgement or decision on your marriage.

Your wife really screwed up. That woman should never have alcohol unless only with you. My wife is an angel. But get her drunk and I do not even recognize her.

She did it once while engaged to me and never got drunk again. She scared herself witless.

Dig deep with the OMW! And verify this is the only event.

I doubt you will find more.

Then when you are calm and rational make a decision.

Enforce boundaries that your wife agrees too and you both follow them if you decide to R.

You very level headed and I think everything will work out.

HM64


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## Feeling_bad

Thanks HM64...very sound advice. 

I went for a run this morning. Worst run ever when all you have is the road and your thoughts.


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## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> Thanks HM64...very sound advice.
> 
> I went for a run this morning. Worst run ever when all you have is the road and your thoughts.


I have had those runs. Just get the hate and hurt out of your system.

Out of curiosity does your wife remember what she did in the bathroom?

If she passed out right after she had to be pretty wasted.

And that is another example of poor behavior with kids in the same house.

That bothers me even more than the cheating.

Just use your time wisely and do not jump to any decisions.


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## Entropy3000

jfv said:


> Multiply that by 1000 in a military community.
> Why is it worse in a military community?


The innate pressures that are around marriages. The lifestyle. Lots of drinking. Lots of young wives and young military guys in close proximity. Husbands gone for very long periods. It is an intense emotional environment. The military job itself is more intense. There can be much lonliness and so on.

If you have not lived in the environment it is very hard to explain. Imagine living in a frat house with your wife and being gone a lot for extended periods to isolated places where you are being shot at.

On and on. Many of the wives are very young and naive and fall in with the partiers. Not uncommon for a group of wives to go out looking for action when the men go on deployment. Women are always welcome at the club. Jody is always there for them.

Imagine the testosterone density in the population.

It is very common for a woman to feel abandoned by her husband and find solice with another man.


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## Entropy3000

AlphaHalf said:


> Everyone in the whole community will know about this incident. Especially in a military community. This will get back to the COC eventually. If your an NCO or Officer your Soldiers will hear about this too.There is no rug sweeping. You have to be decisive with whatever you decide.
> 
> If your wife can do that while your in the house, imagine what she could do while you're deployed.


Actually this is pretty common so it will be rug swept unless he pushes it. It will be very humliating for him to tell his chain of command that he found his wife doing this with him. The wife becomes a well know target for other men. She will be very welcome at the O club.


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> The innate pressures that are around marriages. The lifestyle. Lots of drinking. Lots of young wives and young military guys in close proximity. Husbands gone for very long periods. It is an intense emotional environment. The military job itself is more intense. There can be much lonliness and so on.
> 
> If you have not lived in the environment it is very hard to explain. Imagine living in a frat house with your wife and being gone a lot for extended periods to isolated places where you are being shot at.
> 
> On and on. Many of the wives are very young and naive and fall in with the partiers. Not uncommon for a group of wives to go out looking for action when the men go on deployment. Women are always welcome at the club. Jody is always there for them.
> 
> Imagine the testosterone density in the population.


Nothing like having your fellow Marines look out for your old lady.


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## Feeling_bad

Entropy3000 said:


> The innate pressures that are around marriages. The lifestyle. Lots of drinking. Lots of young wives and young military guys in close proximity. Husbands gone for very long periods. It is an intense emotional environment. The military job itself is more intense. There can be much lonliness and so on.
> 
> If you have not lived in the environment it is very hard to explain. Imagine living in a frat house with your wife and being gone a lot for extended periods to isolated places where you are being shot at.
> 
> On and on. Many of the wives are very young and naive and fall in with the partiers. Not uncommon for a group of wives to go out looking for action when the men go on deployment. Women are always welcome at the club. Jody is always there for them.
> 
> Imagine the testosterone density in the population.
> 
> It is very common for a woman to feel abandoned by her husband and find solice with another man.


A lot of very true statements here, but we don't fit the very young demographic. I've been in almost 20 years. My wife is 37...she is supposed to know better.


----------



## Feeling_bad

happyman64 said:


> Out of curiosity does your wife remember what she did in the bathroom?


She doesn't remember play by play, but she recalls that it happened. Some of the details she says she didn't recall until I brought it up to her.


----------



## lovelygirl

Shaggy said:


> So look at her, and see her with clarity. This is a woman who thought she could take her boyfriend into a room and have sex with him


She was able to do this to her H while he was in the other room.
Imagine what she's able to do to her H when he's out of the country.

OP, buying the alcohol excuse sounds VERY silly to me.
It's not that getting drunk made her blind and unable to see that she was holding someone else's penis in her hand.

_She was sober enough to calculate the way from the room to the bathroom _[because she knew what she was about to do was wrong] _ but she was too drunk to realize that she was touching OM's penis_? How does that make sense?

If you wife was indeed drunk she would make out with him, right there...in the room...without having to leave. 
That's when I would buy the crappy excuse of alcohol.


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> A lot of very true statements here, but we don't fit the very young demographic. I've been in almost 20 years. My wife is 37...she is supposed to know better.


I picked up on that. My comment was more general. 

Being young marrieds in the military is one fo the most difficult things to do.

Yes, career military folks can make it because they have the benefit of experience and hopefully maturity. But it is still harder in this environment that in most others.


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## Acabado

> Her friend who's the OM's wife is always with her on GNO, so I don't think so. But I'm now seeing how irresponsible my wife is when drunk, so I'm going to confront her today about other drunken times in the past.


 I was thinking about it. Asume OM's wife knows about some hidden skeletons on your wife. That's the better moment for her to cause damage... UNLESS she has skeletons on her own. Remember, they are GNOs partners. The doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction playing here.


----------



## Feeling_bad

A question for the group...So I learned from my wife that earlier in the evening, the OM confessed to her that he had cheated on his wife twice before. I'm thinking since they were both drunk during this conversation, my wife would have confessed any prior cheats (if any) to the OM. Do you think it would be worth the time to call the OM and ask if my wife confessed to him that she ever cheated on me or would I be wasting my time?


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## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> A question for the group...So I learned from my wife that earlier in the evening, the OM confessed to her that he had cheated on his wife twice before. I'm thinking since they were both drunk during this conversation, my wife would have confessed any prior cheats (if any) to the OM. Do you think it would be worth the time to call the OM and ask if my wife confessed to him that she ever cheated on me or would I be wasting my time?


What have you got to lose. Keep a threat to report him to his CO over his head to make him talk


----------



## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> A question for the group...So I learned from my wife that earlier in the evening, the OM confessed to her that he had cheated on his wife twice before. I'm thinking since they were both drunk during this conversation, my wife would have confessed any prior cheats (if any) to the OM. Do you think it would be worth the time to call the OM and ask if my wife confessed to him that she ever cheated on me or would I be wasting my time?


No, but talk to the OMW and ask her to ask her husband what they talked about earlier and if cheating came up.

Oh, and definitely tell her what he told your wife.


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## The bishop

OP - at the very least there is definitely an attraction between the two and sexual tension. My wife has a close friend. We haven't ever communicated in anyway (via text or such) or ever been alone with each other. I don't think of her and I have no plans to start an A. Yet, when together even with our spouses there, our attention is towards each other. When you mention them leaving the room, on occasions, they were pushing the boundaries. Seeing where each other will go. You shouldn't trust your WW around the OM cause alcohol wasn't the reason, it just made it easier for them. Feel free to ask me any questions cause I can relate to what your WW and OM were thinking.


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## barbiegirl

I HATE to break this to you! But..if she HAD enough Balls to do this right under your nose..in YOUR house..where YOUR kids where playing RIGHT in the NEXT room! Liquor WAS NOT the only culprit! She must have been CONFIDENT enough in her own mind that she wasn't going to get caught... PROBABLY like all of the other times! I HIGHLY doubt that this is the FIRST incident..you need to do some Detective work now my friend..Make her think that everything is ALL hucky dory and see how FAST she gets over it!! Then you need to hire a private investigator to trail her..COM ON youve seen cheaters..you know how its done<lol> Or if you have the time do the investigating yourself and see what this is all REALLY about! Your the man AND its YOUR job to find out What your wifes TRUE intentions are! And if the Alchole was the only Cause then after the investigation will have turned up NOTHING suspicious! please keep us updated! and tell me what you think! And i am sorry that this has happened to you!


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## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> A question for the group...So I learned from my wife that earlier in the evening, the OM confessed to her that he had cheated on his wife twice before. I'm thinking since they were both drunk during this conversation, my wife would have confessed any prior cheats (if any) to the OM. Do you think it would be worth the time to call the OM and ask if my wife confessed to him that she ever cheated on me or would I be wasting my time?



No, tell her that you are going to ask the OM about it and if there is anything she should tell you, she should do it immediately. Let her confess, then ask the OMW to confront him with this info, to see if he rats out your wife.

Also, if a guy could confess to cheating on his SO your WW, the rabbit hole goes much deeper. They were cheating for quite a while.(whether it was physcal before this is up to you to find out)

What phone does she have? An iphone? You can retrieve deleted texts? Was she texting a lot before this event?


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## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> I will look and pray I don't find anything. My wife sweared this was a one time thing, and told me to check everything of hers...phone, FB, etc. I understand things could have been cleaned and I should have checked last night after she passed out, but I was in such shock. But even if she has cleaned everything out, if she and the OM had a relationship before, I imagine they will covertly continue to try, and I'll keep an sharp eye out for it, as will the OM's wife after I speak with her about it. Thanks...


so going back to the original story... you knocked on the door, the OM said he was in there (of course so was your ww). He said something, she said nothing (and did not leave) and it was not until you entered that all of the sudden she was remorseful. Alcohol, yea right. Sorry, I see this different. This was an EA, with pent up sexual frustration written all over it. The only thing the alcohol did was make her and the OM braver (take a chance at something they already wanted). 

I also see something else... and as bad as you feel, you are also negligent... house full of intoxicated adults and very young children under adult care? I am sorry for your situation, but somebody should have been the adult in the house to ensure the safety of the children.


----------



## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> No, tell her that you are going to ask the OM about it and if there is anything she should tell you, she should do it immediately. Let her confess, then ask the OMW to confront him with this info, to see if he rats out your wife.
> 
> Also, if a guy could confess to cheating on his SO your WW, the rabbit hole goes much deeper. They were cheating for quite a while.(whether it was physcal before this is up to you to find out)
> 
> What phone does she have? An iphone? You can retrieve deleted texts? Was she texting a lot before this event?


No, she has a Droid. I already told my wife I intended to ask the OM if she confessed anything to him, and she didn't seem worried about it.


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> so going back to the original story... you knocked on the door, the OM said he was in there (of course so was your ww). He said something, she said nothing (and did not leave) and it was not until you entered that all of the sudden she was remorseful. Alcohol, yea right. Sorry, I see this different. This was an EA, with pent up sexual frustration written all over it. The only thing the alcohol did was make her and the OM braver (take a chance at something they already wanted).
> 
> I also see something else... and as bad as you feel, you are also negligent... house full of intoxicated adults and very young children under adult care? I am sorry for your situation, but somebody should have been the adult in the house to ensure the safety of the children.


First off, there was no negligence at all. My wife and I take turns when it comes to drinking. I was not impaired nor were probably half the adults there. And no one was as bad off as my wife and the OM. The game we were playing is called "The Game of Things". Adult oriented, but I'm sure many of us have played it. 

Also, she showed no remorse after I walked in. In fact she showed no emotion. She was so drunk, she pulled her pants back up in a zombified manner and went straight to our bedroom where she passed out shortly thereafter. The following morning (and all day yesterday) she has shown remorse. And it's continuing today.


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## barbiegirl

Her cheating on her husband of 12 years HAS nothing to do with him! It is HER! he is not WRONG for TRUSTING his wife! After 12 years! PERIOD


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## MrK

Feeling_bad said:


> My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions.


Uh, yeah. The GNO's stop for sure.


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## barbiegirl

jfv said:


> I don't understand the compulsion for some couples to mix alcohol and 'adult board games'. And being okay with some guy you barely know who's drunk, going off with your wife to other rooms. I guess i'm just the territorial and paranoid type but i just don't get that level of comfort that some men have with other men.




I dont agree with you..it is NOT HIS FAULT!! tht he trusted his wife of 12 years!


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## Complexity

For some reason I don't feel like his wife had "anything" with this man prior to this event. Her reaction to being caught is of someone being black-out drunk. This wasn't pre planned. Regarding the convo, if your wife confessed that she cheated too, why would she bring up this conversation in the first place and get herself into more trouble? 

I think we're jumping from 0 to 60 too quickly.


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## barbiegirl

Feeling_bad...What do you think About what i said?


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## jh52

I know you said you are going to counceling tomorrow -- but I think you wife needs IC counceling also.


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## The bishop

I for one think this is the first time with OM. But the attraction and sexual tension was there. The OM admitting to your WW about his past affairs tells me he had you WW in his sights. As bad as it is how you caught them be glad that you did before attraction turned into a connection.


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## Feeling_bad

Complexity said:


> For some reason I don't feel like his wife had "anything" with this man prior to this event. Her reaction to being caught is of someone being black-out drunk. This wasn't pre planned. Regarding the convo, if your wife confessed that she cheated too, why would she bring up this conversation in the first place and get herself into more trouble?
> 
> I think we're jumping from 0 to 60 too quickly.


Thanks Complexity, I thought the same thing about that confession, and I gauged her reaction when I told her I'd call the OM to find out what she said. She did not seem concerned, and has not been on the phone since (i.e., to try to contact OM to warn him).


----------



## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> I know you said you are going to counceling tomorrow -- but I think you wife needs IC counseling also.


I agree, and intend for her to have counseling as well, with me or separately, whatever is best based on what the counselor tells me tomorrow.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> First off, there was no negligence at all. My wife and I take turns when it comes to drinking. I was not impaired nor were probably half the adults there. And no one was as bad off as my wife and the OM. The game we were playing is called "The Game of Things". Adult oriented, but I'm sure many of us have played it.
> 
> Also, she showed no remorse after I walked in. In fact she showed no emotion. She was so drunk, she pulled her pants back up in a zombified manner and went straight to our bedroom where she passed out shortly thereafter. The following morning (and all day yesterday) she has shown remorse. And it's continuing today.


Ok, so she was not remorseful right away (embarrassed then remorseful)... I don't think it changes the fact that this was not just some spontaneous act precipitated by alcohol. It very may well have been the first time this went physical, but I find it hard to believe that there as not an EA going on prior. 

So again not to pick on you too much, but if you were the mostly sober one watching after the kids, how come you did not go to the room where your daughter was playing to check on her?


----------



## Feeling_bad

barbiegirl said:


> Feeling_bad...What do you think About what i said?


I appreciate your comments that this was not my fault. I trusted my wife completely and she broke that. Also, my wife has sworn to me that I did nothing in our relationship to drive her to cheat. I'm hoping counseling brings out any underlying issues.


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## The bishop

Does your WW realize that any of the kids could of walked in? Wow... Ivcould think of nothing worse, she needs to to be reminded of that anytime she considers drinking.... Oh, and she will want to drink again someday


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## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> Ok, so she was not remorseful right away (embarrassed then remorseful)... I don't think it changes the fact that this was not just some spontaneous act precipitated by alcohol. It very may well have been the first time this went physical, but I find it hard to believe that there as not an EA going on prior.
> 
> So again not to pick on you too much, but if you were the mostly sober one watching after the kids, how come you did not go to the room where your daughter was playing to check on her?


Throughout the evening, I checked on the kids multiple times, as did the OM's wife, as did my wife, and the OM. A couple of times, I went to check on the kids where my wife and the OM were in there checking on them too. That fact, combined with the trust built in 12 years of marriage was why I wasn't concerned throughout the night when they'd walk off. And just like that, the trust is shattered.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> I appreciate your comments that this was not my fault. I trusted my wife completely and she broke that. Also, my wife has sworn to me that I did nothing in our relationship to drive her to cheat. I'm hoping counseling brings out any underlying issues.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Feeling_bad

The bishop said:


> Does your WW realize that any of the kids could of walked in? Wow... So so wrong


Oh yes, I pointed that out to her. And, in my anger, made her feel like sh#t about it. I'm not going to lie, my wife has been a fantastic mother, but I told her that she needs to set a better example for our daughter.


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## Feeling_bad

Feeling_bad said:


> Oh yes, I pointed that out to her. And, in my anger, made her feel like sh#t about it. I'm not going to lie, my wife has been a fantastic mother, but I told her that she needs to set a better example for our daughter.


And because she's been such a great mother, her judgement around her has always been very sound. That's why the fact she took this event into an unlocked bathroom next to my daughter's room leads me to believe alcohol was a big factor. But I still don't think alcohol is an excuse and I told her this. No alcohol should make a person act like that to someone they love and cherish.


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## jh52

I know you are focused on last night -- but have you asked her about the party 2 weeks ago with OM's wife said they were flirting. Just wondering !!


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## barbiegirl

Complexity said:


> For some reason I don't feel like his wife had "anything" with this man prior to this event. Her reaction to being caught is of someone being black-out drunk. This wasn't pre planned. Regarding the convo, if your wife confessed that she cheated too, why would she bring up this conversation in the first place and get herself into more trouble?
> 
> I think we're jumping from 0 to 60 too quickly.




Very well could be the case..BUT..shes was obviously a little to comfortable..ecspecially if she was able to do that in her house with her husband sitting right in the other room.i just feel that she has done it before and hasent gotten caught so therefore she felt she wouldent get caught again! but this is JUST my opinion! I think that feeling_bad needs to take a break from his wife..and pack up his things and go and stay with a friend or in a hotel or make her one or the other! He DEFFENTLY needs some time alone! Some times to think this over! some times to even investigate! Some time to pray! once this happens in a marriage it is SO HARD to get over it! Take it from me! My husband cheated on me! 4 years ago..i stuck it out..BUT i will NEVER EVER trust him EVER again..i ALWAYS wonder was there more that happened then what hes telling me! There her story, his story and THEN the truth!


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## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> I know you are focused on last night -- but have you asked her about the party 2 weeks ago with OM's wife said they were flirting. Just wondering !!


I have asked my wife and OM's wife about it. Both say nothing happened but some playful flirting. My wife is like that when she's drunk, flirty and horny. Because I know how my wife is, I would never be cool with her hanging out with another guy alone if booze were involved. My wife has agreed to never drink again, unless it is just her and I. My wife is a social drinker, but on those rare times she drinks, she obviously takes it too far. If she doesn't respect my wish to not drink again, I will demand she get professional help.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> I have asked my wife and OM's wife about it. Both say nothing happened but some playful flirting. My wife is like that when she's drunk, flirty and horny. Because I know how my wife is, I would never be cool with her hanging out with another guy alone if booze were involved. My wife has agreed to never drink again, unless it is just her and I. My wife is a social drinker, but on those rare times she drinks, she obviously takes it too far. If she doesn't respect my wish to not drink again, I will demand she get professional help.


Sounds like she lets all her inhibitiations down when she is drinking. That's why I think some people on here are concerned about her previous GNOs.

Another question -- was there any activity/actions/circumstances that seemed weird at the time when she had a GNO -- that you didn't give a second thought to -- that today maybe rings as a Red Flag.


----------



## jh52

barbiegirl said:


> Very well could be the case..BUT..shes was obviously a little to comfortable..ecspecially if she was able to do that in her house with her husband sitting right in the other room.i just feel that she has done it before and hasent gotten caught so therefore she felt she wouldent get caught again! but this is JUST my opinion! I think that feeling_bad needs to take a break from his wife..and pack up his things and go and stay with a friend or in a hotel or make her one or the other! He DEFFENTLY needs some time alone! Some times to think this over! some times to even investigate! Some time to pray! once this happens in a marriage it is SO HARD to get over it! Take it from me! My husband cheated on me! 4 years ago..i stuck it out..BUT i will NEVER EVER trust him EVER again..i ALWAYS wonder was there more that happened then what hes telling me! There her story, his story and THEN the truth!


You can forgive -- but you can never forget !!


----------



## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> Sounds like she lets all her inhibitiations down when she is drinking. That's why I think some people on here are concerned about her previous GNOs.
> 
> Another question -- was there any activity/actions/circumstances that seemed weird at the time when she had a GNO -- that you didn't give a second thought to -- that today maybe rings as a Red Flag.


None at all...


----------



## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> You can forgive -- but you can never forget !!


I see that phrase a lot, but I don't know how to forgive if I can't forget. The image is burned into my mind, and right now I can't even look at my wife for more than a couple of seconds.


----------



## joe kidd

Feeling_bad said:


> I see that phrase a lot, but I don't know how to forgive if I can't forget. The image is burned into my mind, and right now I can't even look at my wife for more than a couple of seconds.


Understandable. IMO the fact that you didn't get violent with the guy right there and then speaks volumes about your self control.


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## Feeling_bad

joe kidd said:


> Understandable. IMO the fact that you didn't get violent with the guy right there and then speaks volumes about your self control.


I was shaking from it, but I had my daughter to consider, and couldn't spend the night with the police doing up statements.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Someone on this thread recommend my wife and I read "Not Just Friends". I told my wife about that last night. She just told me she ordered it and has begun reading it on her Kindle.


----------



## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> No, she has a Droid. I already told my wife I intended to ask the OM if she confessed anything to him, and she didn't seem worried about it.


Some cheaters have a burner phone, though that is unlikely in your W case. Just keep your eyes open. Sorry to put so many paranoid thoughts in your mind.

You can retrieve texts from a droid in some cases.


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## jfv

The OM is lucky you have your priorities straight.


----------



## warlock07

Complexity said:


> For some reason I don't feel like his wife had "anything" with this man prior to this event. Her reaction to being caught is of someone being black-out drunk. This wasn't pre planned. Regarding the convo, if your wife confessed that she cheated too, why would she bring up this conversation in the first place and get herself into more trouble?
> 
> I think we're jumping from 0 to 60 too quickly.





Feeling_bad said:


> Thanks Complexity, I thought the same thing about that confession, and I gauged her reaction when I told her I'd call the OM to find out what she said. She did not seem concerned, and has not been on the phone since (i.e., to try to contact OM to warn him).


I don't understand the logic. What does black-out drunk have to do with cheating for the first time? Maybe she got caught this time because she was black-out drunk. They could have done it before too but this time they were not careful enough because they were drunk!!

It could well be the first time, but there isn't enough proof either way. He shouldn't totally eliminate the other scenario


----------



## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> *Oh yes, I pointed that out to her. And, in my anger, made her feel like sh#t about it*. I'm not going to lie, my wife has been a fantastic mother, but I told her that she needs to set a better example for our daughter.


It's not my place to say but I'll say it anyway. I think things like this should be pointed out no matter how badly they feel.

Someone who has done this,IMHO, should be told in no uncertain terms as you did how extremely vile this is even if they know it already. 

They need to hear from the BS themselves, to understand how hurtful it was .


----------



## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> And because she's been such a great mother, her judgement around her has always been very sound. That's why the fact she took this event into an unlocked bathroom next to my daughter's room leads me to believe alcohol was a big factor. But I still don't think alcohol is an excuse and I told her this. No alcohol should make a person act like that to someone they love and cherish.


Yep, just like drunk driving and hitting someone does not absolve you of responsibility


----------



## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> I have asked my wife and OM's wife about it. Both say nothing happened but some playful flirting. My wife is like that when she's drunk, flirty and horny. Because I know how my wife is, I would never be cool with her hanging out with another guy alone if booze were involved. My wife has agreed to never drink again, unless it is just her and I. My wife is a social drinker, but on those rare times she drinks, she obviously takes it too far. If she doesn't respect my wish to not drink again, I will demand she get professional help.


Do you think she has an alcohol problem? 

Just tell her your boundaries for an acceptable marriage. And the consequences if she fails to adhere to them.(Just like she might have some boundaries for you)

Do you also think she flirts excessively with other men (which eventually led to cheating) because she knows you won't ever leave her because of the kids? Does she flirt with other men in front of you ?


----------



## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> Do you think she has an alcohol problem?
> 
> Just tell her your boundaries for an acceptable marriage. And the consequences if she fails to adhere to them.(Just like she might have some boundaries for you)
> 
> Do you also think she flirts excessively with other men (which eventually led to cheating) because she knows you won't ever leave her because of the kids? Does she flirt with other men in front of you ?


I do think she has an alcohol problem in that she drinks too much when drinking. We're both social drinkers, so maybe once a month we drink.

My wife had always shown me the utmost respect. Any kind of flirting was while drinking and with a friend of mine with me there...always to tease me and never to belittle me. It was nothing that ever concerned me.


----------



## Emerald

Feeling_bad said:


> And because she's been such a great mother, her judgement around her has always been very sound. That's why the fact she took this event into an unlocked bathroom next to my daughter's room leads me to believe alcohol was a big factor. But I still don't think alcohol is an excuse and I told her this. No alcohol should make a person act like that to someone they love and cherish.


Reading your story thus far, I think you can R (I know you want to) & others will chime in on conditions, etc.

I also agree that alcohol is a big factor here (not an excuse). You have asked her to stop drinking & she has agreed....HOWEVER, she may have an alcohol problem & it may not be EASY to just give it up.

I would insist as a condition of R that she attends AA or a similar program related to sobriety. 

If she is serious about R, she will go.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Emerald said:


> Reading your story thus far, I think you can R (I know you want to) & others will chime in on conditions, etc.
> 
> I also agree that alcohol is a big factor here (not an excuse). You have asked her to stop drinking & she has agreed....HOWEVER, she may have an alcohol problem & it may not be EASY to just give it up.
> 
> I would insist as a condition of R that she attends AA or a similar program related to sobriety.
> 
> If she is serious about R, she will go.


She said she would go to AA or anything else I asked her to go to. I'm not sure AA is necessary at this time, but will consider it if she doesn't fulfill her promise not to drink again.


----------



## Complexity

warlock07 said:


> I don't understand the logic. What does black-out drunk have to do with cheating for the first time? Maybe she got caught this time because she was black-out drunk. They could have done it before too but this time they were not careful enough because they were drunk!!
> 
> It could well be the first time, but there isn't enough proof either way. He shouldn't totally eliminate the other scenario


He would've found evidence by now. Someone who gets recklessly drunk and cheats left,right and center won't be able to cover their tracks very well. At the very least there would've been some indication of an EA between her and this man, there isn't. Note that neither party has attempted to protect the other in this. Given the tight knit community where Feeling_Bad lives, someone would've easily ratted out his wife if she did cheat in any of her GNOs, no one has.

I do think there were several factors including the adult boardgames, which do not excuse her behaviour in any way, but precipitated the situation and stirred sexual inclinations.


----------



## Eli-Zor

lovelygirl said:


> She was able to do this to her H while he was in the other room.
> Imagine what she's able to do to her H when he's out of the country.
> 
> OP, *buying the alcohol excuse sounds VERY silly to me*.
> It's not that getting drunk made her blind and unable to see that she was holding someone else's penis in her hand.
> 
> *She was sober enough to calculate the way from the room to the bathroom [because she knew what she was about to do was wrong]  but she was too drunk to realize that she was touching OM's penis? How does that make sense?*
> 
> If you wife was indeed drunk she would make out with him, right there...in the room...without having to leave.
> That's when I would buy the crappy excuse of alcohol.


Agree

The alcohol may have loosened her inhibitions however the deed is what she wanted to happen. 

Has she been in an affair with the OM or is this a once off? No one can answer that for you. I would suggest before you go digging into past records that you focus on what boundaries must be in place today. Change all your numbers and drop those folk as friends, there is never to be any contact with them again.

Your wife may apologize and say nothing happened in the past with the OM or any other man, unless you are the kind of man who is willing to accept this the doubt will eat away at you. Experience says most BS have continual doubt and often this itself damages the marriage. 

Ask the question directly and book a polygraph, don't doubt the validity of the poly as its the process leading up to it that often brings out the truth. Carry out the poly and if it is satisfactory settle down and work on implementing marital boundaries that both of you should adhere to. Trust comes with time as does recovery.


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> A question for the group...So I learned from my wife that earlier in the evening, the OM confessed to her that he had cheated on his wife twice before. I'm thinking since they were both drunk during this conversation, my wife would have confessed any prior cheats (if any) to the OM. Do you think it would be worth the time to call the OM and ask if my wife confessed to him that she ever cheated on me or would I be wasting my time?


No. So why would a woman then cheat with a guy who confessed he cheated? Perhaps she was for a moment not going to cheat with her best friends husband. He possiby argued that he was a serial cheater. Perhaps this turned her on.

But no. Cut this guy and his wife out of your life. You cannot trust that man no matter what he says. Why give him that power?


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> For some reason I don't feel like his wife had "anything" with this man prior to this event. Her reaction to being caught is of someone being black-out drunk. This wasn't pre planned. Regarding the convo, if your wife confessed that she cheated too, why would she bring up this conversation in the first place and get herself into more trouble?
> 
> I think we're jumping from 0 to 60 too quickly.


She was able to climb the stairs. If she was balckout drunk she was raped. Her zombie state was a combination of her sexual excitement and drinking. 

Sorry I have done too much drinking and have been around it all my life so continue to call BS on the drinking excuse. She was ok enough to be able to makeout and be holding his c0ck. Sorry faithful wives do not do this even when drinking. If she was so easy to do this this puts extreme question to those GNOs.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Entropy3000 said:


> She was able to climb the stairs. If she was balckout drunk she was raped. Her zombie state was a combination of her sexual excitement and drinking.
> 
> Sorry I have done too much drinking and have been around it all my life so continue to call BS on the drinking excuse. She was ok enough to be able to makeout and be holding his c0ck. Sorry faithful wives do not do this even when drinking. If she was so easy to do this this puts extreme question to those GNOs.


I guess I need to nip the stairs thing in the bud. I have a one-story house. Two turns from the room we were hanging out to where the infamous bathroom was.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> Throughout the evening, I checked on the kids multiple times, as did the OM's wife, as did my wife, and the OM. A couple of times, I went to check on the kids where my wife and the OM were in there checking on them too. That fact, combined with the trust built in 12 years of marriage was why I wasn't concerned throughout the night when they'd walk off. And just like that, the trust is shattered.


I understand... so is (was) your marriage built on strong honest communication? Or, are you basing the trust built on time? You have to understand that marriage is not something that just happens, even up to this event you, me, all of us have to be aware that marriages are built on something more than just doing our time. 

I have a feeling, someone knew about this EA... hard to keep things like this quiet. It is shameful that someone did not let you know. I will only echo what so many have said, you need to take a strong stance on the infidelity (that is what it is). The 180 method or methodologies similar to it. It may even take you having to tell your wife she needs to move out. She needs to earn her way back into the marriage (family). However, when she decides to earn her way back, you need at some point be willing to forgive. But, that forgiveness comes with you no longer being a doormat. 

Stand strong... I wish you the best.


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> He would've found evidence by now. Someone who gets recklessly drunk and cheats left,right and center won't be able to cover their tracks very well. At the very least there would've been some indication of an EA between her and this man, there isn't. Note that neither party has attempted to protect the other in this. Given the tight knit community where Feeling_Bad lives, someone would've easily ratted out his wife if she did cheat in any of her GNOs, no one has.
> 
> I do think there were several factors including the adult boardgames, which do not excuse her behaviour in any way, but precipitated the situation and stirred sexual inclinations.


Negative. Folks cheat all the time and many spouses never see it or choose to not see it. They always have a plausible denial about it. While he has not deployed since 2010 he has deployed in the past.

However if one does this behavior often enough they get a false sense of security about it. They eventually slip up. Then again some folks who cheat figure they can explain it away and count on have a second and third chance. So they indulge themselvse. I think this is where the alocohol was an impact. It encouraged them to take the risk. But the thrill of doing it right there was part of the thrill. Again a faithful wife does not do this with another man in the bathroom wiht her hubby outside the door. This is not a teenager. They have been married a long time. They have children. 

All I am suggesting is that all that he has to go on is what he saw. He knows now his wife will cheat on him under the right circumstances. He cannot assume this is her first go at this. He does not know. So me saying I think she has done this before or others saying they think it was the first time are just speculating and it really does not matter what we think. He needs to do some further investigation not just of her relationship with this guy but what she does when he is not around and especially what they do on the GNOs. If there is drinking on the GNOs he has reason to believe this has happend before. He keeps saying when she gets drunk she flirts and gets real horny. Ok ... do the math.

And yes she was checking on the children and was blackout drunk ... right.


----------



## CH

Somehow I feel this is just the tip of the iceberg only. But like others have said, OM and his wife and their kids will probably have to be banned from your life. All contact stops.

For them to be that brazen means they were that stupid or they've done it before it doesn't matter where it happens at anymore.

For some reason, I'm not leaning towards stupidity in this situation. It's almost as if they knew how much time they needed to get the deed done without drawing attention to them. But due to the alcohol they took too long.

The constant disappearing together to look in on the kids together prior to you catching them, umm, yeah ok. Things don't add up for it being a one time drunken spur of the moment thing. Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg.

And what husband will volunteer to go and look in on the kids with another man's wife, especially if everyone is drinking. If a wife is going, she can check up on the kids, it's not like she'll only look at her kids and ignore all the other kids.


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> I guess I need to nip the stairs thing in the bud. I have a one-story house. Two turns from the room we were hanging out to where the infamous bathroom was.


Ok so forget the stairs. But if you are career military you know about alcohol. You know that there is no excuse from drinking.


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## Entropy3000

cheatinghubby said:


> Somehow I feel this is just the tip of the iceberg only. But like others have said, OM and his wife and their kids will probably have to be banned from your life. All contact stops.
> 
> For them to be that brazen means they were that stupid or they've done it before it doesn't matter where it happens at anymore.
> 
> For some reason, I'm not leaning towards stupidity in this situation. It's almost as if they knew how much time they needed to get the deed done without drawing attention to them. But due to the alcohol they took too long.
> 
> The constant disappearing together to look in on the kids together prior to you catching them, umm, yeah ok. Things don't add up for it being a one time drunken spur of the moment thing. Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg.
> 
> And what husband will volunteer to go and look in on the kids with another man's wife, especially if everyone is drinking. If a wife is going, she can check up on the kids, it's not like she'll only look at her kids and ignore all the other kids.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This^


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## happyman64

Feeling Bad

Normally I agree with the rest of the crew but I have to say I think this is the 1st time this happened.

Was it wrong? Yes.
Did it go way to far, too fast for a 1st time? Hell yes!
Was alcohol feeding their fire? Double hell yes!

Again, stay calm, investigate and make no decisions just right now.

Watch your wife, look at her actions, see if she is remorseful.

Throw out all the booze and no more board games or parties for her my friend.

I think you both should get counselling and she needs good, clear boundaries in place.

She should feel bad or doing that to you and near the kids. Really stupid on her part.

And I do have to say that even with alcohol in place the thought was there for both of them to do this.

And that needs to be addressed......

HM64


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## cpacan

much has been said, and don't it ads up either. I don't know about other couples, but for my wife it took some time before sex during periods was acceptable.


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## Complexity

Entropy3000 said:


> Negative. Folks cheat all the time and many spouses never see it or choose to not see it. They always have a plausible denial about it. While he has not deployed since 2010 he has deployed in the past.
> 
> However if one does this behavior often enough they get a false sense of security about it. They eventually slip up. Then again some folks who cheat figure they can explain it away and count on have a second and third chance. So they indulge themselvse. I think this is where the alocohol was an impact. It encouraged them to take the risk. But the thrill of doing it right there was part of the thrill. Again a faithful wife does not do this with another man in the bathroom wiht her hubby outside the door. This is not a teenager. They have been married a long time. They have children.
> 
> All I am suggesting is that all that he has to go on is what he saw. He knows now his wife will cheat on him under the right circumstances. He cannot assume this is her first go at this. He does not know. So me saying I think she has done this before or others saying they think it was the first time are just speculating and it really does not matter what we think. He needs to do some further investigation not just of her relationship with this guy but what she does when he is not around and especially what they do on the GNOs. If there is drinking on the GNOs he has reason to believe this has happend before. He keeps saying when she gets drunk she flirts and gets real horny. Ok ... do the math.
> 
> And yes she was checking on the children and was blackout drunk ... right.


Hence why I said Feeling_Bad lives in a close knit military community. People gossip and I'm sure they pride themselves with a sense of honour. Therefore had his wife ever stepped out on him, I'm certain many would've been compelled to expose it and he at the least would've heard whispers of it. 

Secondly I disagree with the notion that she had a false sense of security. Not only because of unproven accusations but also because it bears no logical sense. There is confidence and there's sheer lunacy. To be so confident that you'd think you get away with it next door, while completely inebriated, isn't the working of even the most shrewd cheater. Her reaction after she was caught suggests she was completely out of her senses. She literally walked passed him and collapsed. She didn't attempt to explain it away or even address the matter, she was just out of it. Had she _consciously _chose to cheat, she would've _consciously_ sought to explain herself there and then. Moreover, why didn't she have full on sex instead of heavy petting if she is this serial cheater? It doesn't make sense.

What his wife did was absolutely wrong, and no one is defending her faithfulness. However no one can make assumptions when all the evidence points to the contrary. Cheaters often give red-flags. Feeling_Bad was asked if any of her prior actions can be interpreted in hindsight as such, he responded to the contrary. Additionally, given the history of the other man, I'm willing to bet that he was the aggressor in this. That doesn't mean his wife is blameless as she did reciprocate. But when taking into consideration the circumstances......we'll be just going in circles.

Lastly, I think my lack of vocabulary led others to misunderstand "Blackout". What I should've said is that she was drunk beyond her senses. I'm as cynical as they come Feeling_Bad, by all means make her take a polygraph. Place vars/cameras/keyloggers even hire Sherlock Holmes if you want to, I just don't get the sense that your wife has this deep dark side to her and this was a momentary F Up.


----------



## Jibril

Complexity said:


> Had she _consciously _chose to cheat, she would've _consciously_ sought to explain herself there and then. Moreover, why didn't she have full on sex instead of heavy petting if she is this serial cheater? It doesn't make sense.


Who's to say she wouldn't have? Her pants were pulled down below her butt, and OM's willy was being primed for the main event - all she needed to do was assume the position and get started. 

Here's what makes me think she did this intentionally/deliberately, and not as some drunken accident - Feeling_bad was _right outside_ and called to her/OM before he tried to enter. The wife knew, _knew_ her husband was outside. I _know_ I'm repeating myself, but this is the part of the story that chaps my a$$. She no doubt heard her husband at the doorway - OM _certainly_ did. Instead of pulling her pants back up, fixing herself and sneaking away, _she kept quiet, continued "petting" (I like this word) the OM's beef-stick, and continued making out with him_.

My suspicion is that she thought the door _was_ locked, and that she was safe and secure enough to carry on her sexual encounter with OM. I suspect that she kept quiet so as not to give away her position, and so that she and OM could go full monty. There is no reason, _whatsoever_, for her to continue physically stroking the OM sexually, and making out with him, if she didn't feel like she could get away with it. Her husband was literally _feet_ away from her.

I know alcohol affects people differently, so I hesitate to use my own experiences to compare drunken stupidity and debauchery. However, if she had the frame of mind to use "checking on the kids" as an excuse to get physical with OM, she knew what she was doing.


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> I do think she has an alcohol problem in that she drinks too much when drinking. We're both social drinkers, so maybe once a month we drink.
> 
> _My wife had always shown me the utmost respect. Any kind of flirting was while drinking and with a friend of mine with me there_...*always to tease me and never to belittle me.* Utmost respect?? seriously?? *It was nothing that ever concerned me.*


 That should always ,and i mean always be a huge concern...


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## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> Also, she showed no remorse after I walked in. In fact she showed no emotion. She was so drunk, she pulled her pants back up in a zombified manner and went straight to our bedroom where she passed out shortly thereafter.


That's the strategy depicted in the Joey Bishop scene in the old Gene Kelly movie "A Guide for the Married Man." Guess it works on husbands as well as wives.


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## Ikaika

Complexity said:


> Hence why I said Feeling_Bad lives in a close knit military community. People gossip and I'm sure they pride themselves with a sense of honour. Therefore had his wife ever stepped out on him, I'm certain many would've been compelled to expose it and he at the least would've heard whispers of it.
> 
> Secondly I disagree with the notion that she had a false sense of security. Not only because of unproven accusations but also because it bears no logical sense. There is confidence and there's sheer lunacy. To be so confident that you'd think you get away with it next door, while completely inebriated, isn't the working of even the most shrewd cheater. Her reaction after she was caught suggests she was completely out of her senses. She literally walked passed him and collapsed. She didn't attempt to explain it away or even address the matter, she was just out of it. Had she _consciously _chose to cheat, she would've _consciously_ sought to explain herself there and then. Moreover, why didn't she have full on sex instead of heavy petting if she is this serial cheater? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> What his wife did was absolutely wrong, and no one is defending her faithfulness. However no one can make assumptions when all the evidence points to the contrary. Cheaters often give red-flags. Feeling_Bad was asked if any of her prior actions can be interpreted in hindsight as such, he responded to the contrary. Additionally, given the history of the other man, I'm willing to bet that he was the aggressor in this. That doesn't mean his wife is blameless as she did reciprocate. But when taking into consideration the circumstances......we'll be just going in circles.
> 
> Lastly, I think my lack of vocabulary led others to misunderstand "Blackout". What I should've said is that she was drunk beyond her senses. I'm as cynical as they come Feeling_Bad, by all means make her take a polygraph. Place vars/cameras/keyloggers even hire Sherlock Holmes if you want to, I just don't get the sense that your wife has this deep dark side to her and this was a momentary F Up.


I was in the military... trust me sometimes people know and say nothing. Sometimes people know and say everything. Being in the military does not change the the dependents and sometimes even the active military members as much as you might think. 

Unless the wife had a serious character flaw, I serious doubt she was willing to be violated by someone she did not already have some serious feelings for. Remember, he walked in and she had the OM penis in her hand. That is not heavy petting. That is a step or two from penetration. 

If she gets horny when she is drunk, then what is her husband, chop liver? She has a man available to her when their friends leave. Her lack of vocabulary was - "OMG, I finally got caught", and feelings rushing through her along with the inebriation (not solely but contributing factor). She could not somehow reason out what to say with her husband standing their and the OM (whom she loves)... I don't think this was a blackout situation. If he had said she was taking off her clothes in front of the guest and dancing on the table, Ok. It maybe just me, but I see this as a more deliberate circumstance. If it truly is a blackout situation, and this is her behavior then she needs to seek AA counseling. Alcoholics do destructive behavior when they are drunk.


----------



## Complexity

Jibril said:


> Who's to say she wouldn't have? Her pants were pulled down below her butt, and OM's willy was being primed for the main event - all she needed to do was assume the position and get started.
> 
> Here's what makes me think she did this intentionally/deliberately, and not as some drunken accident - Feeling_bad was _right outside_ and called to her/OM before he tried to enter. The wife knew, _knew_ her husband was outside. I _know_ I'm repeating myself, but this is the part of the story that chaps my a$$. She no doubt heard her husband at the doorway - OM _certainly_ did. Instead of pulling her pants back up, fixing herself and sneaking away, _she kept quiet, continued "petting" (I like this word) the OM's beef-stick, and continued making out with him_.
> 
> My suspicion is that she thought the door _was_ locked, and that she was safe and secure enough to carry on her sexual encounter with OM. I suspect that she kept quiet so as not to give away her position, and so that she and OM could go full monty. There is no reason, _whatsoever_, for her to continue physically stroking the OM sexually, and making out with him, if she didn't feel like she could get away with it. Her husband was literally _feet_ away from her.
> 
> I know alcohol affects people differently, so I hesitate to use my own experiences to compare drunken stupidity and debauchery. However, if she had the frame of mind to use "checking on the kids" as an excuse to get physical with OM, she knew what she was doing.


Jibril, because usually when you're trying to have sex for the thrill of it, and your husband is just outside, you won't have time for foreplay. 

It's interesting that you brought up that FL called for her just as he was standing outside. Don't you think if she was deliberately doing this, she would've been startled and the both of them would've fumbled to put their clothes on? Do you think she wants to get caught? Even if she thought the door was locked and FL was standing outside, wouldn't it seem _very_ suspicious if the both of them came out the same time? Only a maniac would've reacted the way she did if they hadn't been drinking. Therefore it clear that she was drunk to epic proportions.


----------



## Ikaika

Jibril said:


> Who's to say she wouldn't have? Her pants were pulled down below her butt, and OM's willy was being primed for the main event - all she needed to do was assume the position and get started.
> 
> Here's what makes me think she did this intentionally/deliberately, and not as some drunken accident - Feeling_bad was _right outside_ and called to her/OM before he tried to enter. The wife knew, _knew_ her husband was outside. I _know_ I'm repeating myself, but this is the part of the story that chaps my a$$. She no doubt heard her husband at the doorway - OM _certainly_ did. Instead of pulling her pants back up, fixing herself and sneaking away, _she kept quiet, continued "petting" (I like this word) the OM's beef-stick, and continued making out with him_.
> 
> My suspicion is that she thought the door _was_ locked, and that she was safe and secure enough to carry on her sexual encounter with OM. I suspect that she kept quiet so as not to give away her position, and so that she and OM could go full monty. There is no reason, _whatsoever_, for her to continue physically stroking the OM sexually, and making out with him, if she didn't feel like she could get away with it. Her husband was literally _feet_ away from her.
> 
> I know alcohol affects people differently, so I hesitate to use my own experiences to compare drunken stupidity and debauchery. However, if she had the frame of mind to use "checking on the kids" as an excuse to get physical with OM, she knew what she was doing.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

The only the thing alcohol did was cause one of them (probably her) to forget to lock the door.

Only two things I can see:

A. She had an EA (possible PA) with other OM. And chose to continue to PA part or start it right then and there, emboldened by the alcohol.

B. She is an alcoholic and does as a number of other chemically dependent individuals do and carry out reckless behavior.


----------



## Feeling_bad

cheatinghubby said:


> And what husband will volunteer to go and look in on the kids with another man's wife, especially if everyone is drinking. If a wife is going, she can check up on the kids, it's not like she'll only look at her kids and ignore all the other kids.


The other kids playing with my daughter in the room were his kids, which is why he would go check as well...Just saying.


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> If she gets horny when she is drunk, then what is her husband, chop liver? She has a man available to her when their friends leave.


This is a part that really chaps me. I told this to my wife and how it made me feel like sh#t that she would choose some other guy to have horny urges with. Again, my wife swears she's happy with me. Her demeanor since yesterday morning has been very remorseful, and she tells me she will do anything to make things better and gain my trust back. Our sex life is good. We have sex at least weekly, usually multiple times a week. At least I think that's pretty good after 12 years and kids. So I don't understand why she resonated towards that other guy.


----------



## CH

Feeling_bad said:


> The other kids playing with my daughter in the room were his kids, which is why he would go check as well...Just saying.


Only your wife needed to go, what she wasn't gonna check on the other kids? Maybe once ok, but he had to go every single time your wife did.

Maybe it's just me and my buddies, if one of the guys was gonna go check on his kids we would have made him go get us some beers instead and sent one of the wives to check on the kids.

If they go with their wife, fine, if the wife told him go and check on the kids fine (but we'll make fun of him all night long). But to volunteer to go each time your wife is going, that just doesn't make sense. Comon, I know it's how you're trying to cope with it by ignoring the red flags you see in front of you.

But it's your life, if you believe her that it's a one time event, then you're the one who has to live with her, not me. You have to do what's best for you 

But I'm just saying, just too many red flags going off here. It was so obvious that everyone was joking about how they would both go every time. And everyone was pretty drunk also and still noticed it.

But like I said, it's your life, you make the decision that's best for your family. All we're doing is giving advice, if you heed them or not that's up to you.


----------



## Jonesey

Look man.

I feel you are not taking and seing the severity in this matter .

You have said:

*” My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions.”*

And then this:

*“My wife had always shown me the utmost respect. Any kind of flirting was while drinking and with a friend of mine with me there...always to tease me and never to belittle me.”
*
Yeas I wife is always belittle her husband by doing so. Make no mistake, of thinking differently.

*” My wife had only gone to their house without me once, and that was 2 weeks ago when I was away for work.According to the OM's wife, there was flirting going on, but there was also a lot of alcohol drunk that night as well”*

Scenario! Sounds framilar??

Probobly where the whole thing started.



Hello, new member to this forum. So I've been with my wife for 12 years, we have a 6-yr old daughter and I would say overall, we've had a strong marriage. Last night we had a small party at the house. Three other couples came over, one of which included my wife's best friend. Needless to say drinks were flowing, and we were playing an adult board game. My wife's best friend's husband wasn't playing and he seemed to be drinking more heavily than the rest of us*.He was mustering up curraage to make a move on you wife.That he couldent the last time the where drunk and hevaly flirted.* My wife was drinking pretty heavily too. *The same deal for her as described above.*Throughout the night, my wife and her friend's husband would leave the room together, often to check on our kids (who were playing in my daughter's room). 
*Ok , I buy it once. But check up often? Yeah right..
The making out session’s. Yes it was. Believe what you want.*

*My wife's best friend would comment about it in a playful manner,**Really ,in a play full manner? why? She had no concern? Strange. First women I have ever heard that would take it that easy.*.. and I didn't think much of it (my wife has NEVER given me a reason not to trust her). *Why would you .The Duchbag´s on wife dident seem to concernd.So why would you.*Well I guess that was naive of me, for I eventually walked by my hallway bathroom (in which the door was closed), and realized I hadn't seen my wife and this guy in a while. I knocked on the bathroom door, and the guy said he was in there.I double checked to see if I could find my wife anywhere, but couldn't. Eventually, I opened the door (which was left unlocked), and there was my wife and this guy making out, his pants off with d#ck in my wife's hand, and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks. .* Douchbag and your “wife” wrongly made the mistke, thinking you would leave. Hence the reason only MRDuchbag responded and your "wife" was silent*. I broke it up, told all our guests to leave, and my wife passed out after I yelled at her for a few minutes. *Hmm. Little strange don’t you think?
“Fooling around” and not passing out. Again strange. Are you sure she passed out?*

So now I obviously have this image in my head of my wife with another guy. I have no doubt that if I had walked in there 5-10 minutes later, I would have seen either oral sex or penetration going on. *Hate to burst your bubble.
But what you saw,was the after math..Remember the: , and my wife's pants pulled to below her buttocks. And being gone for quite some time. No need at that stage to have pants pulled down,at that point.* I am utterly distraught now...I can't sleep, eat or do anything. My wife has spent the day apologizing profusely to me, blaming the alcohol. *Oh PLEASE !! So all the unnecessary checking up on the kids they both did. Alcohol to blame for that to?* and begging me not to go the divorce route.* Of course she does. She knows she screwed up* I don't want to divorce my wife, and I know this is just a day old,*Dont worry its understandable.Take your time.* but I don't know how I could be with someone who did this to me, in our home, while I'm here.* On that. Only time will tell.It can be done.In fact many people have managed to reconcile far worser scenarios then your´s.* Not only is the cheating part wrong, but I feel so disrespected and so embarrassed by this. *No one can blame you for feeling it. Question is will your “wife” understand it to?*My wife promises that she is happy with me, and I did nothing to drive her towards cheating. *She is right you dident drive her to do what she did.Its all on her. *She blames the event completely on alcohol. 

*Oh boy here we go again*sigh* Did both get instantly drunk at the same time.Again Oh please.The spent way to much unexplained alone time.For me to buy int to the alcohol story.*While alcohol is no excuse,* It never is. So what is the point with the statement?*I have to admit it was a factor.* Factor yeas. But the only reason? I don’t think so. At some point the attraction, must have been built up. Drunk or not drunk. No one ends up like the did out of a fluke.* My wife has promised never to drink again.* AND? at this point she will promise you to do every thing over and under the sun. Its comen after been cought cheating.*

I honestly think your problem is that your little bit 
Naïve. And have way to high opinion of your wife.

Look at this statement you said again:

“My wife had always shown me the utmost respect. Any kind of flirting was while drinking and with a friend of mine with me there...always to tease me and never to belittle me.”

*You are not even realizing that she is in fact 
Disrespecting you in front of your friends.

No other way to tease you?

No man that I know, including my self would accept that. Or even remotely se it as “utmost respect”
*
Another one you said :

” My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk, I've been the recipient of many good times on those occasions.”

Thats great i fits only you who benefits from it.

But do you realise on GNO nights out. A quicky dosent taket hat much time,for here friend s to notice she is gone for a while.

This incedent in your house i actually Believe is the first time
With this douchbag. But Please stop being naive and think

Your wife is so inocent. This might be her first rodeo with you.

But it dosent exclude it in the past. With other boyfriend/Husband´s

This is a huge concern of mine why i think you are not taking this
Seriously * ” My wife gets very crazy and horny when she's drunk”* That alone would have put min on high alert

*Im not bashing you. But you need some harsh truth.
BTW my EXWW had 2 year affair on me. To trusting aswell.*


----------



## Feeling_bad

Ok, so I just came back from a lengthy discussion with the OM's wife. Her husband is staying at a hotel now, so I brought my daughter there to play with her kids and we discussed the situation. I told her I've been posting on this site, and some of the input you've all provided. In terms of whether this was a one-time, drunken stupor or a behind the scenes relationship, both the OMW and I agree that there were no signs the OM or my wife had any personal interest in each other. My wife never spoke about him, and the OMW states the OM never spoke about my wife. Also, neither of us could see when there would have been any time for them to spend time alone together. Both my wife and the OMW are stay at home moms. Both the OM and I spend lengthy days on base with very visible jobs. I speak to my wife regularly throughout the day and come home for lunch 3-5 days a week, so I'm very confident she's not sneaking off during my work day to meet with the OM. OMW has the same sentiment about her husband. Additionally, my wife is home every day I get home from work, and the OM goes straight home after work every day.

As for the party 2 weeks ago that I wasn't at, the OMW pointed out to me that there were 2 other girls there as well. So my wife, the OM, the OMW, and 2 female friends hanging out. My wife was drunk and was flirting with everyone, definitely more so the girls (yes my wife is like that and has been with women in the past), and the OMW does not recall a moment when her husband and my wife were alone. The OMW says the flirting was more so to get the OM to have a shot...no touching, and there was no time when the OM and my wife sneaked off together.

Lastly, I asked the OMW to tell me about how my wife behaves when they do girls night out. The OMW has been with her every time. The OMW states my wife has never done anything morally wrong, just flirts with the other girls she is out with.

Based on this, my gut really tells me this was an event where the two drunkest people at my house were bored with the board game we were playing and started hanging out because they shared the same drunken disposition. They got very stupid, flirty, and things obviously went way to far. Absolutely no excuse for it, and it's a total disrespect for me and the OMW, but I have no evidence at all that my wife was developing a relationship with another man, or that her normal behavior is to act like a wh#re when I'm not around. I will continue to investigate to ensure there's no follow-on contact with the OM, but I don't think there will be. According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.


----------



## Feeling_bad

cheatinghubby said:


> Only your wife needed to go, what she wasn't gonna check on the other kids? Maybe once ok, but he had to go every single time your wife did.
> 
> Maybe it's just me and my buddies, if one of the guys was gonna go check on his kids we would have made him go get us some beers instead and sent one of the wives to check on the kids.
> 
> If they go with their wife, fine, if the wife told him go and check on the kids fine (but we'll make fun of him all night long). But to volunteer to go each time your wife is going, that just doesn't make sense. Comon, I know it's how you're trying to cope with it by ignoring the red flags you see in front of you.
> 
> But it's your life, if you believe her that it's a one time event, then you're the one who has to live with her, not me. You have to do what's best for you
> 
> But I'm just saying, just too many red flags going off here. It was so obvious that everyone was joking about how they would both go every time. And everyone was pretty drunk also and still noticed it.
> 
> But like I said, it's your life, you make the decision that's best for your family. All we're doing is giving advice, if you heed them or not that's up to you.


You're absolutely right, and because I trusted her completely, a red flag didn't go up in my mind. That's my punishment for being so trusting.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> This is a part that really chaps me. I told this to my wife and how it made me feel like sh#t that she would choose some other guy to have horny urges with. Again, my wife swears she's happy with me. Her demeanor since yesterday morning has been very remorseful, and she tells me she will do anything to make things better and gain my trust back. Our sex life is good. We have sex at least weekly, usually multiple times a week. At least I think that's pretty good after 12 years and kids. So I don't understand why she resonated towards that other guy.


So other than promises and words, what has she done to prove she is remorseful? Do you have full access to all her passwords, etc. She needs to come clean. There seems to be a lot more hidden here than just this one incident. Is there a no contact letter, and commitment to hold to it? I suspect some of her other friends (other than the OMW), may have known... they are toxic. She may need to be willing to dissolve those friendships for the sake of the marriage. Again, I have my doubts about this being a one-time blackout event. At least you should not treat it that way. She blew it, not you and in this case her ability to gain your trust starts with you suspecting everything and she just needs to put down her defenses (they usually are put up for a reason) until that trust is deserved. It will take time and let her know that this may take months even years... 

You need to find out from her just how much she is committed to the marriage, and it will take work on her part. Words are cheap. Don't let her off easy, or you will regret it.


----------



## kenmoore14217

All well and good but I do hope you are not running around telling everyone what a peach you married! Not so much


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, so I just came back from a lengthy discussion with the OM's wife. Her husband is staying at a hotel now, so I brought my daughter there to play with her kids and we discussed the situation. I told her I've been posting on this site, and some of the input you've all provided. In terms of whether this was a one-time, drunken stupor or a behind the scenes relationship, both the OMW and I agree that there were no signs the OM or my wife had any personal interest in each other. My wife never spoke about him, and the OMW states the OM never spoke about my wife. Also, neither of us could see when there would have been any time for them to spend time alone together. Both my wife and the OMW are stay at home moms. Both the OM and I spend lengthy days on base with very visible jobs. I speak to my wife regularly throughout the day and come home for lunch 3-5 days a week, so I'm very confident she's not sneaking off during my work day to meet with the OM. OMW has the same sentiment about her husband. Additionally, my wife is home every day I get home from work, and the OM goes straight home after work every day.
> 
> As for the party 2 weeks ago that I wasn't at, the OMW pointed out to me that there were 2 other girls there as well. So my wife, the OM, the OMW, and 2 female friends hanging out. My wife was drunk and was flirting with everyone, definitely more so the girls (yes my wife is like that and has been with women in the past), and the OMW does not recall a moment when her husband and my wife were alone. The OMW says the flirting was more so to get the OM to have a shot...no touching, and there was no time when the OM and my wife sneaked off together.
> 
> Lastly, I asked the OMW to tell me about how my wife behaves when they do girls night out. The OMW has been with her every time. The OMW states my wife has never done anything morally wrong, just flirts with the other girls she is out with.
> 
> Based on this, my gut really tells me this was an event where the two drunkest people at my house were bored with the board game we were playing and started hanging out because they shared the same drunken disposition. They got very stupid, flirty, and things obviously went way to far. Absolutely no excuse for it, and it's a total disrespect for me and the OMW, but I have no evidence at all that my wife was developing a relationship with another man, or that her normal behavior is to act like a wh#re when I'm not around. I will continue to investigate to ensure there's no follow-on contact with the OM, but I don't think there will be. According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.


It may very well have been a one time deal... don't treat it that way. Assume the worst and make her work for it (the marriage). You need to make her work her way back "home".


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> So other than promises and words, what has she done to prove she is remorseful? Do you have full access to all her passwords, etc. She needs to come clean. There seems to be a lot more hidden here than just this one incident. Is there a no contact letter, and commitment to hold to it? I suspect some of her other friends (other than the OMW), may have known... they are toxic. She may need to be willing to dissolve those friendships for the sake of the marriage. Again, I have my doubts about this being a one-time blackout event. At least you should not treat it that way. She blew it, not you and in this case her ability to gain your trust starts with you suspecting everything and she just needs to put down her defenses (they usually are put up for a reason) until that trust is deserved. It will take time and let her know that this may take months even years...
> 
> You need to find out from her just how much she is committed to the marriage, and it will take work on her part. Words are cheap. Don't let her off easy, or you will regret it.


We have no passwords in our home...everything is open. My wife has fully offered up every piece of communication device for my perusal. Throughout the last 2 days, I have repeatedly checked her phone, computer, etc, to make sure she's not had contact with the OM. Every time I tell her to get off the computer for me to check, she moves right over without delay.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Feeling_bad said:


> We have no passwords in our home...everything is open. My wife has fully offered up every piece of communication device for my perusal. Throughout the last 2 days, I have repeatedly checked her phone, computer, etc, to make sure she's not had contact with the OM. Every time I tell her to get off the computer for me to check, she moves right over without delay.


And the one time the OM called her yesterday, she let me know about it right away.


----------



## AlphaHalf

> This is a part that really chaps me. I told this to my wife and how it made me feel like sh#t that she would choose some other guy to have horny urges with. Again, my wife swears she's happy with me. Her demeanor since yesterday morning has been very remorseful, and she tells me she will do anything to make things better and gain my trust back. Our sex life is good. We have sex at least weekly, usually multiple times a week. At least I think that's pretty good after 12 years and kids. So I don't understand why she resonated towards that other guy.


More then likely your wife found this man attractive. They were flirting at the party two weeks prior. They pick up were they left of at your house. He also admitted to cheating twice on his wife, so he had a plan to cheat with your wife as well. Was your wife interested? You saw that for yourself.

You could be the most perfect man in the world. It still won't guarantee fidelity in your spouse. They both had a mutual attraction and alcohol helped to release there inhibitions to act on it. You know the other man is a confessed cheater drunk or sober. Now you'll always be wondering what your wife's reasoning was.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> And the one time the OM called her yesterday, she let me know about it right away.


And, keep it up. I know you love her, I can tell, but if you really love her and want to keep your family together, you cannot let up into the near future. Hang in there... I really hope for the best. BTW, Sailor, soldier or airman? 

Also thank you for you dedicated service, you have my deepest gratitude for your sacrifice.


----------



## Feeling_bad

kenmoore14217 said:


> All well and good but I do hope you are not running around telling everyone what a peach you married! Not so much


Not since Friday night. My peach is obviously rotten. Look, I know it seems like I'm defending her character, but I'm being truthful about her past behaviors and her behavior since the event. I'm furious with her, and still don't know if I can reconcile with her. But I just did not see this coming. Yes she party's hard, but I think in 12 years, I would have at least had a suspicion if she's doing stuff behind my back when we're at a party.


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> And, keep it up. I know you love her, I can tell, but if you really love her and want to keep your family together, you cannot let up into the near future. Hang in there... I really hope for the best. BTW, Sailor, soldier or airman?
> 
> Also thank you for you dedicated service, you have my deepest gratitude for your sacrifice.


I'd rather not say my service. With my position, I very much want to keep my identity confidential. Hope you understand. Thanks...


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> I'd rather not say my service. With my position, I very much want to keep my identity confidential. Hope you understand. Thanks...


Not a problem, I understand... just hang it there.


----------



## Complexity

Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, so I just came back from a lengthy discussion with the OM's wife. Her husband is staying at a hotel now, so I brought my daughter there to play with her kids and we discussed the situation. I told her I've been posting on this site, and some of the input you've all provided. In terms of whether this was a one-time, drunken stupor or a behind the scenes relationship, both the OMW and I agree that there were no signs the OM or my wife had any personal interest in each other. My wife never spoke about him, and the OMW states the OM never spoke about my wife. Also, neither of us could see when there would have been any time for them to spend time alone together. Both my wife and the OMW are stay at home moms. Both the OM and I spend lengthy days on base with very visible jobs. I speak to my wife regularly throughout the day and come home for lunch 3-5 days a week, so I'm very confident she's not sneaking off during my work day to meet with the OM. OMW has the same sentiment about her husband. Additionally, my wife is home every day I get home from work, and the OM goes straight home after work every day.
> 
> As for the party 2 weeks ago that I wasn't at, the OMW pointed out to me that there were 2 other girls there as well. So my wife, the OM, the OMW, and 2 female friends hanging out. My wife was drunk and was flirting with everyone, definitely more so the girls (yes my wife is like that and has been with women in the past), and the OMW does not recall a moment when her husband and my wife were alone. The OMW says the flirting was more so to get the OM to have a shot...no touching, and there was no time when the OM and my wife sneaked off together.
> 
> Lastly, I asked the OMW to tell me about how my wife behaves when they do girls night out. The OMW has been with her every time. The OMW states my wife has never done anything morally wrong, just flirts with the other girls she is out with.
> 
> Based on this, my gut really tells me this was an event where the two drunkest people at my house were bored with the board game we were playing and started hanging out because they shared the same drunken disposition. They got very stupid, flirty, and things obviously went way to far. Absolutely no excuse for it, and it's a total disrespect for me and the OMW, but I have no evidence at all that my wife was developing a relationship with another man, or that her normal behavior is to act like a wh#re when I'm not around. I will continue to investigate to ensure there's no follow-on contact with the OM, but I don't think there will be. According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.


I'd go with your gut too after reading this. P/S I know what it's like to have a flirty spouse, both with men and women (the latter I can tolerate lol  )


----------



## jh52

Hey Feeling -- as you can see from all the posts/support -- no matter what you decide in the coming weeks/months -- folks will be here for you !!


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## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> Hey Feeling -- as you can see from all the posts/support -- no matter what you decide in the coming weeks/months -- folks will be here for you !!


Yes, this is a good site. Very good and candid input. I appreciate folks don't sugar coat just to make the betrayed's feelings better. Though I haven't enjoyed reading all the comments, it's making me think about things I would not have thought of to ensure I don't get hurt again.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> Yes, this is a good site. Very good and candid input. I appreciate folks don't sugar coat just to make the betrayed's feelings better. Though I haven't enjoyed reading all the comments, it's making me think about things I would not have thought of to ensure I don't get hurt again.


It is a friendly slap in the face or dope slap in the back of the head, not to hurt you but to wake up to a new reality. A few here may want you to jump ship right away, however I think most just want to toughen you up... if you don't get "tough" your marriage will be doomed. Remember boot camp and whatever training you had was for a purpose, this is similar. The only caveat I would add is that your WW is not the enemy, and that you are fighting for something not against something. Having said that your wife needs to know you mean business.


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> Hence why I said Feeling_Bad lives in a close knit military community. People gossip and I'm sure they pride themselves with a sense of honour. Therefore had his wife ever stepped out on him, I'm certain many would've been compelled to expose it and he at the least would've heard whispers of it.
> 
> Secondly I disagree with the notion that she had a false sense of security. Not only because of unproven accusations but also because it bears no logical sense. There is confidence and there's sheer lunacy. To be so confident that you'd think you get away with it next door, while completely inebriated, isn't the working of even the most shrewd cheater. Her reaction after she was caught suggests she was completely out of her senses. She literally walked passed him and collapsed. She didn't attempt to explain it away or even address the matter, she was just out of it. Had she _consciously _chose to cheat, she would've _consciously_ sought to explain herself there and then. Moreover, why didn't she have full on sex instead of heavy petting if she is this serial cheater? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> What his wife did was absolutely wrong, and no one is defending her faithfulness. However no one can make assumptions when all the evidence points to the contrary. Cheaters often give red-flags. Feeling_Bad was asked if any of her prior actions can be interpreted in hindsight as such, he responded to the contrary. Additionally, given the history of the other man, I'm willing to bet that he was the aggressor in this. That doesn't mean his wife is blameless as she did reciprocate. But when taking into consideration the circumstances......we'll be just going in circles.
> 
> Lastly, I think my lack of vocabulary led others to misunderstand "Blackout". What I should've said is that she was drunk beyond her senses. I'm as cynical as they come Feeling_Bad, by all means make her take a polygraph. Place vars/cameras/keyloggers even hire Sherlock Holmes if you want to, I just don't get the sense that your wife has this deep dark side to her and this was a momentary F Up.


Just not my experience that this sense of honor applies to this. Perhaps you have been in the military and have lived in base housing. I for sure have. So I am speaking from direct experience. Lunacy rules the day in these matters. Most of these type of activities are over the top and have little resemblance to other circumstances folks could relate to in their lives.
To understand you have to be there. This type of activity is not uncommon in these environments. Yes it is amazing and hard to undertand by those who have not experienced it. 

So we completely disagree and that is ok. Neither one of us can possibly know the truth. For sure the OP does not. He is very close to the situation which is both good and bad. Too close to the forest to see the trees type of thing. 

He needs to seek the truth. Blowing smoke up his butt is not going to help him. He needs to find out the truth not what posters think happened. I do think specualting is helpful in him seeing what the possibilities are so he can determine the truth.


----------



## Jonesey

**SIGH”

This post show´s clerly that you are not getting it..

You wrote:
*


*Ok, so I just came back from a lengthy discussion with the OM's wife. Her husband is staying at a hotel now, so I brought my daughter there to play with her kids and we discussed the situation. I told her I've been posting on this site, and some of the input you've all provided. In terms of whether this was a one-time, drunken stupor or a behind the scenes relationship, both the OMW and I agree that there were no signs the OM or my wife had any personal interest in each other. My wife never spoke about him, and the OMW states the OM never spoke about my wife. Also, neither of us could see when there would have been any time for them to spend time alone together. Both my wife and the OMW are stay at home moms. Both the OM and I spend lengthy days on base with very visible jobs. I speak to my wife regularly throughout the day and come home for lunch 3-5 days a week, so I'm very confident she's not sneaking off during my work day to meet with the OM. OMW has the same sentiment about her husband. Additionally, my wife is home every day I get home from work, and the OM goes straight home after work every day.*

*I don’t dispute that. In fact I believe it my self to. *
*As for the party 2 weeks ago that I wasn't at, the OMW pointed out to me that there were 2 other girls there as well. So my wife, the OM, the OMW, and 2 female friends hanging out. My wife was drunk and was flirting with everyone, definitely more so the girls (yes my wife is like that and has been with women in the past),** and the OMW does not recall a moment when her husband and my wife were alone.** It was no reason at that point to be lone.**The OMW says the flirting was more so to get the OM to have a shot...**Bingo we have WINNER.**no touching,* *THIS IS A HUGE RED FLAG. That OMW allowed it to happen, never mind be cool whit it. Its simply not happening women dont tolerate that*.You see that is when Douchbag realized, what his wife has told about how your wife behave her self out on GNO.I was really as bad as described. Duchbag simply saw a oppertunity present´s it self for the future. *And there was no time when the OM and my wife sneaked off together.* *It doesn’t matter. Not the time ore the place.. Your party was. Hence the unnecessary checking up on the kids. At first to test the water. And you your self admits how she gets when she is drunk. Douchbag saw her as EASY.He just saw that future possibility present´s it self.And acted up on it.
While you all where to busy to fully notice.How ever i do believe that it was not your wife´s plan for the evening to happen. *

Lastly, I asked the OMW to tell me about how my wife behaves when they do girls night out. The OMW has been with her every time. The OMW states my wife has never done anything morally wrong, just flirts with the other girls she is out with. AND? Occurred to you that OMW´s wife might not be
a saint her self GNO nights out. And also the fact, people that go out to togheter don’t hold hand´s and joind to the hip all evening.
Its called a quickie for a reason. Not accusing your wife to do it. But with the recent event .I would not put it passed it.

*Based on this, my gut really tells me this was an event where the two drunkest people at my house were bored with the board game we were playing and started hanging out because they shared the same drunken disposition. They got very stupid, flirty, and things obviously went way to far. Absolutely no excuse for it, and it's a total disrespect for me and the OMW, but I have no evidence at all that my wife was developing a relationship with another man.**If not got caught, you would have known that how?its easy to progress from that night if not the hadn't been caught.* *or that her normal behavior is to act like a wh#re when I'm not around.* *No one has suggested that either.* *I will continue to investigate to ensure there's no follow-on contact with the OM, but I don't think there will be. According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.Of course the are.* *The got caught.. Question you should ask your self why did OMW send Douchbag staying in a hotel? And your wife is still home.
She seems not to be as forgiving as you. 
Or she has more info then she care to share.
Or perhaps she is afraid to be outed. Who knows.*


----------



## Complexity

Entropy3000 said:


> Just not my experience that this sense of honor applies to this. Perhaps you have been in the military and have lived in base housing. I for sure have. So I am speaking from direct experience. Lunacy rules the day in these matters. Most of these tyope of activities are over the top and have little resemblance to other circumstances folks could relate to in their lives.
> To understand you have to be there. This type of activity is not uncommon in these environments. Yes it is amazing and hard to undertand by those who have not experienced it.
> 
> So we completely disagree and that is ok. Neither one of us can possibly know the truth. For sure the OP does not. He is very close to the situation which is both good and bad. Too close to the forest to see the trees type of thing.
> 
> He needs to seek the truth. Blowing smoke up his butt is not going to help him. He needs to find out the truth not what posters think happened. I do think specualting is helpful in him seeing what the possibilities are so he can determine the truth.


I fully agree, FL needs to do all the investigating necessary. But the issue of experience isn't that pertinent. One tends to be inclined to superimpose their experience unto others which isn't exactly generalizable. You may have experienced debauchery and lewdness,another may have experienced respect, honour and fidelity. Who's to say one's experience is more valid? But nevertheless, FL if you're not content with the circumstances, investigate away!


----------



## aug

Feeling_bad said:


> According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.



If the OM is remorseful, did he confess his affairs with other women (like he did to your wife)?


----------



## The bishop

I think you are right that this is the first time between the two... But what if you didn't catch them; do you think she would of told remorsefully later? These things just dont happen, you need to find the reason (outside of being drunk) on why she would risk so much so close to you and you child.


----------



## Emerald

Did I miss that the OMW kicked the OM out of the home to a hotel?

Okay, you say no AA for now for your W but if this truly was a random drunken "thing" & I believe you because you have investigated, then your W has a VERY serious problem with booze.


----------



## Jonesey

Emerald said:


> Did I miss that the OMW kicked the OM out of the home to a hotel?
> 
> Okay, you say no AA for now for your W but if this truly was a random drunken "thing" & I believe you because you have investigated, then your W has a VERY serious problem with booze.


Its not the booze that is the main problem.OP is.

Her behavior under influence by alcohol is well know to him.

He never put a stop to it.So she was just a train accident waiting to happen.


----------



## Feeling_bad

The bishop said:


> I think you are right that this is the first time between the two... But what if you didn't catch them; do you think she would of told remorsefully later? These things just dont happen, you need to find the reason (outside of being drunk) on why she would risk so much so close to you and you child.


No, I honestly do not think she would have told me. And yes, that is obviously a major problem we will have to work through if that's what I decide to do.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Jonesey said:


> Its not the booze that is the main problem.OP is.
> 
> Her behavior under influence by alcohol is well know to him.
> 
> He never put a stop to it.So she was just a train accident waiting to happen.


Perhaps that's true, but again, I never had a reason to believe she would go down this road when drunk. For 12 years, while she's been crazy when drunk, she never took it to a level that sparked any suspicion...none at all. My whole impression of her and what I believe has been turned upside down. It's not that I let my guard down, it's that I didn't even know I had to put a guard up.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Emerald said:


> Did I miss that the OMW kicked the OM out of the home to a hotel?
> 
> Okay, you say no AA for now for your W but if this truly was a random drunken "thing" & I believe you because you have investigated, then your W has a VERY serious problem with booze.


Yes, OMW kicked the OM out...this has happened once that she's aware of in their relationship, so I don't think she'll be as forgiving as I may be.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you told OMW about his other affairs?


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> Jibril, because usually when you're trying to have sex for the thrill of it, and your husband is just outside, you won't have time for foreplay.
> 
> It's interesting that you brought up that FL called for her just as he was standing outside. Don't you think if she was deliberately doing this, she would've been startled and the both of them would've fumbled to put their clothes on? Do you think she wants to get caught? Even if she thought the door was locked and FL was standing outside, wouldn't it seem _very_ suspicious if the both of them came out the same time? Only a maniac would've reacted the way she did if they hadn't been drinking. Therefore it clear that she was drunk to epic proportions.


You are trying to do this by logic. I love logic. But not everyone comes to the same conclusions given the same data. What you are missing is that many of us have seen this exact type of behavior. So we know it is not uncommon. This stuff happens. 

So logic away my friend. Seeing is believing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> This is a part that really chaps me. I told this to my wife and how it made me feel like sh#t that she would choose some other guy to have horny urges with. Again, my wife swears she's happy with me. Her demeanor since yesterday morning has been very remorseful, and she tells me she will do anything to make things better and gain my trust back. Our sex life is good. We have sex at least weekly, usually multiple times a week. At least I think that's pretty good after 12 years and kids. So I don't understand why she resonated towards that other guy.


Please read Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Shaggy said:


> Have you told OMW about his other affairs?


No, and I know that is sh#tty of me. I know what the answer will be, but should I?


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, so I just came back from a lengthy discussion with the OM's wife. Her husband is staying at a hotel now, so I brought my daughter there to play with her kids and we discussed the situation. I told her I've been posting on this site, and some of the input you've all provided. In terms of whether this was a one-time, drunken stupor or a behind the scenes relationship, both the OMW and I agree that there were no signs the OM or my wife had any personal interest in each other. My wife never spoke about him, and the OMW states the OM never spoke about my wife. Also, neither of us could see when there would have been any time for them to spend time alone together. Both my wife and the OMW are stay at home moms. Both the OM and I spend lengthy days on base with very visible jobs. I speak to my wife regularly throughout the day and come home for lunch 3-5 days a week, so I'm very confident she's not sneaking off during my work day to meet with the OM. OMW has the same sentiment about her husband. Additionally, my wife is home every day I get home from work, and the OM goes straight home after work every day.
> 
> As for the party 2 weeks ago that I wasn't at, the OMW pointed out to me that there were 2 other girls there as well. So my wife, the OM, the OMW, and 2 female friends hanging out. My wife was drunk and was flirting with everyone, definitely more so the girls (yes my wife is like that and has been with women in the past), and the OMW does not recall a moment when her husband and my wife were alone. The OMW says the flirting was more so to get the OM to have a shot...no touching, and there was no time when the OM and my wife sneaked off together.
> 
> Lastly, I asked the OMW to tell me about how my wife behaves when they do girls night out. The OMW has been with her every time. The OMW states my wife has never done anything morally wrong, just flirts with the other girls she is out with.
> 
> Based on this, my gut really tells me this was an event where the two drunkest people at my house were bored with the board game we were playing and started hanging out because they shared the same drunken disposition. They got very stupid, flirty, and things obviously went way to far. Absolutely no excuse for it, and it's a total disrespect for me and the OMW, but I have no evidence at all that my wife was developing a relationship with another man, or that her normal behavior is to act like a wh#re when I'm not around. I will continue to investigate to ensure there's no follow-on contact with the OM, but I don't think there will be. According to the OMW, the OM sounds just as remorseful as my wife.


Ok. What are their GNOs. Just military wives out for a few drinks sans any men? Sorry I have to ask.
Where do they go? Please tell me they do not go to the O club or other service clubs. I only ask because that was not uncommon for some wives.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok. What are their GNOs. Just military wives out for a few drinks sans any men? Sorry I have to ask.
> Where do they go? Please tell me they do not go to the O club or other service clubs. I only ask because that was not uncommon for some wives.


GNO consists of my wife with 2-3 friends going to Chilis or other restaurant where there's a happy hour. Out by 6pm, home by 10 at the latest.


----------



## Shaggy

Feeling_bad said:


> No, and I know that is sh#tty of me. I know what the answer will be, but should I?


Yes x10

The OMW is trying to decide what to do, she needs all the info she can get.

Secondly, it will really piss the OM at your wife fir betraying his trust in her. You gotta love that.


----------



## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> GNO consists of my wife with 2-3 friends going to Chilis or other restaurant where there's a happy hour. Out by 6pm, home by 10 at the latest.


And how do you know this?


----------



## Jonesey

Machiavelli said:


> And how do you know this?




Good question! 

Have you noticed how OP is dodging importent qustions all the time? Makes me wonder what is his expectation, of being here.


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> I fully agree, FL needs to do all the investigating necessary. But the issue of experience isn't that pertinent. One tends to be inclined to superimpose their experience unto others which isn't exactly generalizable. You may have experienced debauchery and lewdness,another may have experienced respect, honour and fidelity. Who's to say one's experience is more valid? But nevertheless, FL if you're not content with the circumstances, investigate away!


Indeed. Experience is projecting. LOL. My aggregate experience trumps projecting with no experience. Of course there are those that are so intellligent they just know things. Awesome.


----------



## Jonesey

Shaggy said:


> Yes x10
> 
> The OMW is trying to decide what to do, she needs all the info she can get.
> 
> Secondly, it will really piss the OM at your wife fir betraying his trust in her. You gotta love that.


Could be that she allready knows. Hence OM is staying in at a hotel for now.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Machiavelli said:


> And how do you know this?


That's the plan she tells me. In my conversation with the OMW this evening, I specifically asked her if my wife "behaves" during GNO. OMW says my wife does nothing worthy of making me mad or distrustful. I would think the OMW would give me the full dish now if my wife was doing something wrong.

Which is exactly why I should and will give her the full dish about her husband's past.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Jonesey said:


> Good question!
> 
> Have you noticed how OP is dodging importent qustions all the time? Makes me wonder what is his expectation, of being here.


Please elaborate on what important questions I'm dodging. I've answered nearly every question that's been asked. I feel like a lot of you are trying to get me to agree my wife is some dirty wh#re, and while she was on Friday night, I have 12 years with her where she never did anything to make me suspicious of anything. Every question I've answered where it may seem like I'm making an excuse for her has been backed up with corroborating stories from the OMW. The bottom line is based on the questions posed, my wife has shown me nothing to indicate that deceitfulness is normal behavior for her.


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> No, and I know that is sh#tty of me. I know what the answer will be, but should I?


Yes. But this should tell you that the OMW may not be telling you the whole truth either. As you have not told her.

So there you are. You are covering for the OM, so perhaps the OMW is covering for your wife.

Ok ... grasping at straws. You say the wife flirts with women. Is it possible there has been a threesome? Or discussion of a threesome? That the OM getting with your wife was not part f the deal. Or maybe just more to the ladies relationship?


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling bad.

May ask whats your expectation of being her. Considering you keep
Ignoring vital qustions,and act as you already know ever thing?


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> GNO consists of my wife with 2-3 friends going to Chilis or other restaurant where there's a happy hour. Out by 6pm, home by 10 at the latest.


This was important information.


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> Please elaborate on what important questions I'm dodging.


Well you can begin reading mine to start with. And go from
There.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Jonesey said:


> Feeling bad.
> 
> May ask whats your expectation of being her. Considering you keep
> Ignoring vital qustions,and act as you already know ever thing?


Well I obviously know more than you, I live it. I am sharing everything I know with strangers (you all) to get advice. If you have a question, I will gladly answer it...perhaps you're getting upset when the answer I give is not what you want to hear, because it goes against whatever theory you might have 

Nonetheless, I've gone through your posts. Is the question, why haven't I kicked my wife out of the house? Well because she has nowhere to go here. Her family lives 4 states away, and she really has no other close friends here. Plus, I don't feel like throwing money at a hotel for who knows how long. Tomorrow I start seeing a counselor (and a lawyer for consultation) to see what my options are. I did read online that adultery (which I'm not sure this technically is since I can't prove penetration) is not grounds for me to keep my daughter, so I don't want to get into that legal battle. Plus I have 2 older kids from a previous marriage that I lost custody of in court for no apparent reason except that I lacked a vagina, so I don't have trust in the court system.

If I'm missing other questions, let me know.


----------



## Complexity

Entropy3000 said:


> You are trying to do this by logic. I love logic. *But not everyone comes to the same conclusions given the same data*. What you are missing is that many of us have seen this exact type of behavior. So we know it is not uncommon. This stuff happens.
> 
> So logic away my friend. Seeing is believing.


See what? You're speculating on things you haven't seen :scratchhead:

You assume that because you've seen thing in the past,they're automatically applicable in the present. That is biased, is it not? And the bolded part contradicts your argument doesn't it? I make no such assumptions and my observations are purely objective. I can't make character judgements on someone I never met on the basis of other people.



Entropy3000 said:


> Indeed. Experience is projecting. LOL. My aggregate experience trumps projecting with no experience. Of course there are those that are so intellligent they just know things. Awesome.


Meh, might be the case however so far you've assumed that she had a close relationship to the OM, turned out not to be true, you implied that alcohol was a catalyst to their pent up emotional connection, one that doesn't exist, you speculated that she's cheated before, he's found no evidence to support this. Lastly you suggest that GNO= inevitable cheating, not so sure about that one.

But hey if experience trumps facts, so be it!


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> *Well I obviously know more than you,[/B I live it. I am sharing everything I know with strangers (you all) to get advice. If you have a question, I will gladly answer it...perhaps you're getting upset when the answer I give is not what you want to hear, because it goes against whatever theory you might have
> 
> Nonetheless, I've gone through your posts. Is the question, why haven't I kicked my wife out of the house? Well because she has nowhere to go here. Her family lives 4 states away, and she really has no other close friends here. Plus, I don't feel like throwing money at a hotel for who knows how long. Tomorrow I start seeing a counselor (and a lawyer for consultation) to see what my options are. I did read online that adultery (which I'm not sure this technically is since I can't prove penetration) is not grounds for me to keep my daughter, so I don't want to get into that legal battle. Plus I have 2 older kids from a previous marriage that I lost custody of in court for no apparent reason except that I lacked a vagina, so I don't have trust in the court system.
> 
> If I'm missing other questions, let me know.*


*

Look you use to much off logic in this matter. 

I mean think of the party 2 weeks before.What happened?
If you known about it would you be cool with it?

OMW only told you because of the current situation.Other wise you would not have known.
Then you ask her about when the go GNO .

Your all of a sudden told.Nothing happens that you would be bother by it.. Why dosent that sound strange to you?
Why do you assume that OMW is saint?she might be up to no good her self, for all we know. Its those questions you seem not to pay attention to..*


----------



## Feeling_bad

Jonesey said:


> Look you use to much off logic in this matter.
> 
> I mean think of the party 2 weeks before.What happened?
> If you known about it would you be cool with it?
> 
> OMW only told you because of the current situation.Other wise you would not have known.
> Then you ask her about when the go GNO .
> 
> Your all of a sudden told.Nothing happens that you would be bother by it.. Why dosent that sound strange to you?
> Why do you assume that OMW is saint?she might be up to no good her self, for all we know. Its those questions you seem not to pay attention to..


I understand that could be a possibility, but she's hurt just as bad as I am...why would she feel any need to protect my wife through her answers. 

As for the party 2 weeks ago, the behavior my wife exhibited was normal (based on how she acts with booze), and I knew it was going on. I was away for work, but my wife told me that afternoon she was going to it. As for how she acted there based on what the ONW told me, I wouldn't have had a concern. Hindsight being what it is, I know now I should have set a boundary on her, and one now exists in that she will never drink again, except only with me. Now it's our job to enforce that.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> Well I obviously know more than you, I live it. I am sharing everything I know with strangers (you all) to get advice. If you have a question, I will gladly answer it...perhaps you're getting upset when the answer I give is not what you want to hear, because it goes against whatever theory you might have
> 
> Nonetheless, I've gone through your posts. Is the question, why haven't I kicked my wife out of the house? Well because she has nowhere to go here. Her family lives 4 states away, and she really has no other close friends here. Plus, I don't feel like throwing money at a hotel for who knows how long. Tomorrow I start seeing a counselor (and a lawyer for consultation) to see what my options are. I did read online that adultery (which I'm not sure this technically is since I can't prove penetration) is not grounds for me to keep my daughter, so I don't want to get into that legal battle. Plus I have 2 older kids from a previous marriage that I lost custody of in court for no apparent reason except that I lacked a vagina, so I don't have trust in the court system.
> 
> If I'm missing other questions, let me know.


Don't get too caught up in mindless remarks... Keep your cool. You need to be strong. BTW, it is noble of you to not just throw you ww out in the streets. One can admire that, however when I say stay hang in there, I also mean hang tough. I will say this again, your ww is not necessarily the enemy however I want you to consider this picture in your head and maybe even convey the message to her:

She right now is at the end of a 10' rope ready to fall into the abyss (in other words, she needs to feel as if she were going to be thrown out into the street). You are above in the safe zone. Your job is to be tough and not try to help her up, but you can be there to talk her up the rope (be tough about it). The only time she will gain a hand from you is when she is able to reach one hand onto safety then you will hoist her up the rest of the way. She has to make that climb to you... do not be an enabler. This will build a stronger love than you can imagine. Enabler her and she will no longer respect you, and in time your love may even drift away for her. 

Even if (and I still have my doubts) if this were a one time event, this has to be a long painful journey back. No easy outs.


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> Don't get too caught up in mindless remarks... Keep your cool. You need to be strong. BTW, it is noble of you to not just throw you ww out in the streets. One can admire that, however when I say stay hang in there, I also mean hang tough. I will say this again, your ww is not necessarily the enemy however I want you to consider this picture in your head and maybe even convey the message to her:
> 
> She right now is at the end of a 10' rope ready to fall into the abyss (in other words, she needs to feel as if she were going to be thrown out into the street). You are above in the safe zone. Your job is to be tough and not try to help her up, but you can be there to talk her up the rope (be tough about it). The only time she will gain a hand from you is when she is able to reach one hand onto safety then you will hoist her up the rest of the way. She has to make that climb to you... do not be an enabler. This will build a stronger love than you can imagine. Enabler her and she will no longer respect you, and in time your love may even drift away for her.
> 
> Even if (and I still have my doubts) if this were a one time event, this has to be a long painful journey back. No easy outs.


Great analogy with the rope. Thank you.

Also, I just finally figured out how to review Verizon Wireless minutes online. I went back a whole month and not a single text or call between my wife and the OM, except the one yesterday where he called her to apologize. That's very reassuring to me...


----------



## Jibril

Feeling_bad said:


> Great analogy with the rope. Thank you.
> 
> Also, I just finally figured out how to review Verizon Wireless minutes online. I went back a whole month and not a single text or call between my wife and the OM, except the one yesterday where he called her to apologize. That's very reassuring to me...


In all honesty, I didn't think there would be past correspondences. I wouldn't have been surprised if there _were_, but I'm not surprised that there aren't either.

But don't feel too reassured yet. The issue at hand is that your wife has _atrocious_ marital and personal boundaries. Truly horrific. You are married to a woman who could, in drunken lust, cheat with very little effort. Someone described your wife as "easy" and as offensive as it may sound, I'm inclined to agree. 

Within a single alcohol-heavy evening, she flirted and connected with another woman's husband within your own home, and with you, _her own husband_, present. She was literally _moments_ away from having sex with OM in the bathroom. Christ, man. If you had decided to check on them a _minute_ later, I suspect you would have witnessed something much more traumatizing and harder to forgive. I don't mean to be sensational, but all she needed to do to go _all_ the way was turn around and bend over a bit. She was _that_ close.

She needs some kind of counseling. I don't know if the alcohol really is to blame for making her as "loose" as she is, but the bottom line is that she has some serious problems. I think AA is a good start. An individual counselor to pick at her brain and see what made her do the things she did, is another wise choice.


----------



## Wanting1

Feeling bad,

I've been reading and thinking about your situation since yesterday. It really resonates with me. I'm a military spouse, late 30's, and I've seen my husband through 4 deployments and the countless other training periods that go along with being a soldier. 

At our last duty station, we made great friends with 3 other couples in our neighborhood and had a standing Friday night game night at one of our houses. It was a safe place to relax, have drinks, enjoy the company of friends, and the kids loved being able to stay up late at a friend's house or maybe even sleep over. It was a win-win for all of us. So, I have been exactly where you were the other night (except for the cheating).

When you explained how your wife has stood by you during the deployments and helped with step-kids and that there were no other signs of deception. I decided you were probably right and were able to catch this the first time it went physical.

So then I started thinking, kind of putting myself in your wife's place, what would make me jump over all those internal boundaries like that. She basically leaped over them. And I'm sure alcohol played a huge factor. (I am like your wife in that alcohol makes me very aroused. My husband loves to see me reach for that second drink.  But even then, my affection is always directed toward my husband. Sounds like previously that was true for your wife.

The thing I kept getting hung upon, like some others, is how rapidly the pants came down. How could that happen that fast? A stolen drunken kiss? Maybe. But pants down, first time out of the gate? What could make that happen so fast?

Because of the similar life situations, I asked myself, "What could make me do that, in just that manner, so quickly?" I came up with one possible solution. Take it with a grain of salt, if you must. I am by no means claiming that this is what happened. But maybe....

Several weeks ago, she hung out with him. They flirted. He is attractive to her. She is flattered that he seems to find her attractive. There is no communication between them, but....she thinks about him. Begins to fantasize about him. A slow progression. Fantasies can't hurt, right? She thinks about kissing him, then about (fill in the blank). I won't get graphic. But fantasies can progress slowly and be rewritten constantly to achieve "perfection". She had several weeks to work her fantasies about him into a fever pitch. And then he comes to her house. They both get drunk. They sneak off a few times and manage to have some "private conversation." She's drinking. The barriers are falling. Each time they are alone, even for a minute, he is making subtle moves. Touching her. Looking into her eyes. Then, he makes his big move. And her fantasy is suddenly alive. She's already done exactly this with him in her mind. She doesn't even have to think about what she does next, because she has already done this many times in her fantasies. The alcohol has triple fast-forwarded the progression of their "relationship." 

Without the alcohol, it probably would have taken much longer to get to this point. And if your wife really does have strong morals, she may have been to stop and shake herself free of it before anything happened. 

My point to this narrative is this, fantasies can be very detrimental. It's a very bad idea to fantasize about a person you really know and find attractive (if you are married). So, maybe this isn't what happened with your wife. But, it might explain how she so easily went there in such risky place and time. If this is what happened, it's something she can entirely control in the future. We can control the direction of our thoughts! Food for thought.


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> See what? You're speculating on things you haven't seen :scratchhead:
> 
> You assume that because you've seen thing in the past,they're automatically applicable in the present. That is biased, is it not? And the bolded part contradicts your argument doesn't it? I make no such assumptions and my observations are purely objective. I can't make character judgements on someone I never met on the basis of other people.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, might be the case however so far you've assumed that she had a close relationship to the OM, turned out not to be true, you implied that alcohol was a catalyst to their pent up emotional connection, one that doesn't exist, you speculated that she's cheated before, he's found no evidence to support this. Lastly you suggest that GNO= inevitable cheating, not so sure about that one.
> 
> But hey if experience trumps facts, so be it!


I banish you to oblivion my dear friend. Go argue with someone else for a while. You are just playing silly games now. Blocking you. Have fun.


----------



## Complexity




----------



## Entropy3000

FL,

This may have come out already. Do you know who the OM cheated with? Was it soemone on deployment, someone elses wife or other? Assuming you do not know. But it would make me wonder a bit whether he makes a habit of going afte other men's wives.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Feeling bad,
> 
> I've been reading and thinking about your situation since yesterday. It really resonates with me. I'm a military spouse, late 30's, and I've seen my husband through 4 deployments and the countless other training periods that go along with being a soldier.
> 
> At our last duty station, we made great friends with 3 other couples in our neighborhood and had a standing Friday night game night at one of our houses. It was a safe place to relax, have drinks, enjoy the company of friends, and the kids loved being able to stay up late at a friend's house or maybe even sleep over. It was a win-win for all of us. So, I have been exactly where you were the other night (except for the cheating).
> 
> When you explained how your wife has stood by you during the deployments and helped with step-kids and that there were no other signs of deception. I decided you were probably right and were able to catch this the first time it went physical.
> 
> So then I started thinking, kind of putting myself in your wife's place, what would make me jump over all those internal boundaries like that. She basically leaped over them. And I'm sure alcohol played a huge factor. (I am like your wife in that alcohol makes me very aroused. My husband loves to see me reach for that second drink.  But even then, my affection is always directed toward my husband. Sounds like previously that was true for your wife.
> 
> The thing I kept getting hung upon, like some others, is how rapidly the pants came down. How could that happen that fast? A stolen drunken kiss? Maybe. But pants down, first time out of the gate? What could make that happen so fast?
> 
> Because of the similar life situations, I asked myself, "What could make me do that, in just that manner, so quickly?" I came up with one possible solution. Take it with a grain of salt, if you must. I am by no means claiming that this is what happened. But maybe....
> 
> Several weeks ago, she hung out with him. They flirted. He is attractive to her. She is flattered that he seems to find her attractive. There is no communication between them, but....she thinks about him. Begins to fantasize about him. A slow progression. Fantasies can't hurt, right? She thinks about kissing him, then about (fill in the blank). I won't get graphic. But fantasies can progress slowly and be rewritten constantly to achieve "perfection". She had several weeks to work her fantasies about him into a fever pitch. And then he comes to her house. They both get drunk. They sneak off a few times and manage to have some "private conversation." She's drinking. The barriers are falling. Each time they are alone, even for a minute, he is making subtle moves. Touching her. Looking into her eyes. Then, he makes his big move. And her fantasy is suddenly alive. She's already done exactly this with him in her mind. She doesn't even have to think about what she does next, because she has already done this many times in her fantasies. The alcohol has triple fast-forwarded the progression of their "relationship."
> 
> Without the alcohol, it probably would have taken much longer to get to this point. And if your wife really does have strong morals, she may have been to stop and shake herself free of it before anything happened.
> 
> My point to this narrative is this, fantasies can be very detrimental. It's a very bad idea to fantasize about a person you really know and find attractive (if you are married). So, maybe this isn't what happened with your wife. But, it might explain how she so easily went there in such risky place and time. If this is what happened, it's something she can entirely control in the future. We can control the direction of our thoughts! Food for thought.


Actually this is a good general point on affairs. Fantasizing seems harmless and much of the time it may be for many folks. But our brains are very susceptibel to reprogramming. It has been called affirmations. Meaning if you visualize yourself behaving in a certain way enough you will have a tendency to think in those directions in real life. You condition yourself. Visualization. Most of the time we can still be rational but indeed she must have had something else in her experience with this guy or other guys that set the foundation for such behavior. 

Hard to believe this was enough by itself certainly.
But certainly worth considering.


----------



## Ikaika

Wanting a Strong Marriage,

You have some good points... I think however the BH, just needs to assume the worst has happened. I realize that sounds horrible, but it also means he will remain vigilant and focused on not helping her back up the rope so easily. She, the WW, not him needs to do the work of repairing what has been broken. If she really is remorseful and wants to remain within the marriage, she will pursue him with a fervor. 

I really and truly hope the best for them, but I can tell you that regardless of what he walked in on... as you said she already performed the act in her head... this is a long hard journey. It cannot be repaired so quickly otherwise it will not last. All the other recommendations concerning MC, AA, IC... all of that is important. But, it has to be focused on how much she is willing to give in order to save the marriage.


----------



## Wanting1

drerio said:


> Wanting a Strong Marriage,
> 
> You have some good points... I think however the BH, just needs to assume the worst has happened. I realize that sounds horrible, but it also means he will remain vigilant and focused on not helping her back up the rope so easily. She, the WW, not him needs to do the work of repairing what has been broken. If she really is remorseful and wants to remain within the marriage, she will pursue him with a fervor.
> 
> I really and truly hope the best for them, but I can tell you that regardless of what he walked in on... as you said she already performed the act in her head... this is a long hard journey. It cannot be repaired so quickly otherwise it will not last. All the other recommendations concerning MC, AA, IC... all of that is important. But, it has to be focused on how much she is willing to give in order to save the marriage.



I absolutely agree with you. I wasn't trying to create some kind of "Get out of jail free" card or anything. Really, I was trying to wrap my head around how she could go from zero to pants down so quickly. If this was, indeed, the process that she used to get to that point, it would be a starting point in owning her choices and addressing the thought processes that she allowed herself to indulge in. It would be the beginning of a long journey. I don't think it should be used as an excuse for her behavior in any way whatsoever. Choices have consequences, good and bad.


----------



## lovelygirl

Feeling_bad said:


> No, and I know that is sh#tty of me. I know what the answer will be, *but should I?*


Why is this even a question?
If the OMW knew about your wife's past affairs, wouldn't you want to know??

The thing is that you and the OMW are cooperating with each other and are working together to figure out what's been happening to both of your respective spouses.
If you know some details that could help her and you keep them to yourself while you claim that she tells you everything she knows, then you're not playing a fair game here. 
Maybe she already knows about his past affairs, but you better be honest with her just like you want her to be with you.


----------



## warlock07

Jibril said:


> In all honesty, I didn't think there would be past correspondences. I wouldn't have been surprised if there _were_, but I'm not surprised that there aren't either.
> 
> But don't feel too reassured yet. The issue at hand is that your wife has _atrocious_ marital and personal boundaries. Truly horrific. You are married to a woman who could, in drunken lust, cheat with very little effort. Someone described your wife as "easy" and as offensive as it may sound, I'm inclined to agree.
> 
> Within a single alcohol-heavy evening, she flirted and connected with another woman's husband within your own home, and with you, _her own husband_, present. She was literally _moments_ away from having sex with OM in the bathroom. Christ, man. If you had decided to check on them a _minute_ later, I suspect you would have witnessed something much more traumatizing and harder to forgive. I don't mean to be sensational, but all she needed to do to go _all_ the way was turn around and bend over a bit. She was _that_ close.
> 
> She needs some kind of counseling. I don't know if the alcohol really is to blame for making her as "loose" as she is, but the bottom line is that she has some serious problems. I think AA is a good start. An individual counselor to pick at her brain and see what made her do the things she did, is another wise choice.


Someone imagined a much grimmer scenario. She was helping him finish since he was drunk and couldn't finish the regular way


----------



## warlock07

Can the OMW be saving herself in not outing your wife? She might have her own reasons to not out your wife(or have the guilt of breaking up your marriage)


----------



## Jonesey

warlock07 said:


> Can the OMW be saving herself in not outing your wife? She might have her own reasons to not out your wife(or have the guilt of breaking up your marriage)


That is what i have been trying to say.But
OP are not listening.:scratchhead:


----------



## lovelygirl

I don't see how the OMW would want to hang out with OP's wife after what she did to the OMW.
Had I been in the OMW's shoes I would never want to see the OP's wife again, ever! Both the OM and the OP's wife are responsible for ruining two marriages.


----------



## cpacan

Feeling_bad; I see that there are a lot of speculations going on here. Some on your part, and a great deal from all us well meaning strangers on board.

I would like to offer you a different, simple and yet very diificult approach.

In my much younger days, I found great pleasure in watching Colombo on TV - you know the distracted cigar smoking detective.

One of the things I remember is, that when he could not make the story match up, he removed everything that he had been told by people - assuming that everybody could have a motive to lie. What was left? The bare facts.

You could try to use the same logic. Remove from the equation everything you have been told by everybody. What is left?

1. You saw your wife with an aquainted mans genitials in her hand. Both had pants down. In your house, lots of people present. Yet: Asume nothing. Stick to the fact.
2. Your wife had been drinking, might be drunk, but you don't know that for a fact.

Everything else is IMO speculations. This is a simple scenario in all times, past, present and future. Could this have happened before? It's possible. Could this happen again? Also a possibility, so it seems.

So the question is simple(?). Can you accept what happened and can you accept that it might happen again? If yes, what will you do to reduce the likelyhood of repetition? 

It's not all on you. Your wife needs to understand exactly why this happened (not alcohol) and she has to do a fair and realistic assesment of her ability to stay "clean", and also how she will enforce her (new) boundaries herself.

I know this is not so simple, I am struggling myself to come to terms with it all. But sometimes you just need to keep things simple to find the way.


----------



## Malaise

Entropy3000 said:


> *Yes. But this should tell you that the OMW may not be telling you the whole truth either. As you have not told her.
> 
> So there you are. You are covering for the OM, so perhaps the OMW is covering for your wife.*
> Ok ... grasping at straws. You say the wife flirts with women. Is it possible there has been a threesome? Or discussion of a threesome? That the OM getting with your wife was not part f the deal. Or maybe just more to the ladies relationship?


This could be the the case. The point made above is that OP doesn't tell what he found out ,for a reason valid to him(and not others) and the OMW could be in the same boat, not wanting to worsen the situation thinking that what they are dealing with now is bad enough.

Very early on in this thread I made the observation that I found it implausible that two people, supposedley showing no prior interest in each other, could conduct themselves so boldly and recklessly in that situation fueled by drinking.

Even though the OP says with certainty that they had no prior history, and I believe that he believes it,I still find that to be highly suspect.

Other posters,espcially Jibril, have done a nice job outlining very graphically what went on and what could have happened. These descriptions make me feel that this was not just a flash in the pan. I feel that they, as described, were too comfortable in the act, even drunk.

2 cents inserted


----------



## dogman

Feeling_bad said:


> Great analogy with the rope. Thank you.
> 
> Also, I just finally figured out how to review Verizon Wireless minutes online. I went back a whole month and not a single text or call between my wife and the OM, except the one yesterday where he called her to apologize. That's very reassuring to me...


 Felling Bad, the thing you need to worry about is her impulse control. I would bet money that she's not the type to get into an emotion affair. But the going out thing and any drinking with or without you needs to stop, any one of us would have real problems dealing with your situation because is a grey area. If it was an EA or full blown sex, it would be a no brainier.
You have to give her the opportunity to make this right because we are all human and capable of f-ing up bad. With that said make her work for it or it will absolutely happen again when your working of out of town ... Who knows.


----------



## Chaparral

Re sex once a week or so. It has been posted at TAM that according to experts, sex three times a month, is virtually a sexless marriage. YOu seem to be near that. Also, your wife's age, I believe, is also bringing her into her sexual peak.

Read "MArried Man Sex Life" (not a sex manual) and I think you will have your eyes opened about the dynamic between man and wife.

The two of you also need to read "His Needs Her Needs."


----------



## Chaparral

When you say you have checked her phone, do you literally mean her phone or her online phone bill records? You also might want to put a keylogger on your computer.


----------



## Hicks

I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

She is not throwing off any signs of having an affair or and Red Flags. 

Look at it as follows and live your life. Your wife is prone to hook ups with men or women becuase a) she is a flirt b) she is bisexual c) she drinks. You just need to put the basic protections in place within your marriage. Your wife is remorseful, transparent and open... All men who've been cheated on would gladly accept the way your wife is acting now. Now, a part of your marriage is that she will have to earn your trust daily / weekly / monthly going forward. No drinking, no socializing without you, no passwords on phones, no attitude if you are asking questions, no secrecy, transparency regarding whereabouts etc.

If you want to know if there is more to the situation, the answer to this is a lie detector test. Nothing else you are doing (i.e. defending yourself on the internet, speaking to his wife) will provide you with this information.


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## sinnister

Some of you need to calm down. Seriously.

Some of you are actually getting annoyed that OP is not following yoru advice and you're just throwing out multiple speculative scenario's and rapid fire questions and then getting upset that he doesn't respond to "your" questions.

If you want to help then help. If you want to speculate and make him feel worse by getting mad at him for not responding to every single post you should probably take a break.

Remember, as little as the OP knows his wife right now it's still infinately more than we do. Let's have a little respect for him as he's doing what needs to be done. He's keeping constant vigil in checking her correspondence, he's eliminated the possibility of GNO inpropriety and he's having conversation with OMW to compare notes to see if there's anything he's missing.

OP just chill. You seem very calculated and intelligent. That will serve you well. Continue to do what you're doing. If you do decide to R, your counselor should help with the horrid images.


----------



## Feeling_bad

lovelygirl said:


> Why is this even a question?
> If the OMW knew about your wife's past affairs, wouldn't you want to know??
> 
> The thing is that you and the OMW are cooperating with each other and are working together to figure out what's been happening to both of your respective spouses.
> If you know some details that could help her and you keep them to yourself while you claim that she tells you everything she knows, then you're not playing a fair game here.
> Maybe she already knows about his past affairs, but you better be honest with her just like you want her to be with you.


You're absolutely right...I'm meeting with her in about a half hour and plan to tell her.


----------



## Feeling_bad

chapparal said:


> When you say you have checked her phone, do you literally mean her phone or her online phone bill records? You also might want to put a keylogger on your computer.


Both the phone, and last night checked the online records. Clean...


----------



## Feeling_bad

sinnister said:


> Some of you need to calm down. Seriously.
> 
> Some of you are actually getting annoyed that OP is not following yoru advice and you're just throwing out multiple speculative scenario's and rapid fire questions and then getting upset that he doesn't respond to "your" questions.
> 
> If you want to help then help. If you want to speculate and make him feel worse by getting mad at him for not responding to every single post you should probably take a break.
> 
> Remember, as little as the OP knows his wife right now it's still infinately more than we do. Let's have a little respect for him as he's doing what needs to be done. He's keeping constant vigil in checking her correspondence, he's eliminated the possibility of GNO inpropriety and he's having conversation with OMW to compare notes to see if there's anything he's missing.
> 
> OP just chill. You seem very calculated and intelligent. That will serve you well. Continue to do what you're doing. If you do decide to R, your counselor should help with the horrid images.


Thanks for the words. You're probably the first Eagles fan I ever found to be sound. Go Giants


----------



## badbane

My only concern in all of this is that I think you are making a mistake in thinking this is the only one in 12 yrs. Given your wife's behavior ,and the fact that you have bounced around a bit would be pretty easy to just not tell you, or trickle truth, and say this is the only one. Plus given that you are away on deployments you don't have a camera rolling 24/7 in the house that she could be sneaking men in or any number of things. 
Before you say this is unlikely read some of the stunts these cheaters pull. 

I think that while you are doing a good job I think you have not gone for enough back. Her best friend hasn't known her that long. So I doubt your wife would her past on her since she really is somewhat a short term friend.
IMO if you really want to know I would rug sweep. tell her you believe her and that she shouldn't do it anymore but you love her. Then throw a gps in her car and watch and wait. A lot of people on here have read just how deep the rabbit hole can go and how fooled BS can be. 
I just ask that you go all the way back to the start and work your way forward. Otherwise you will always wonder now you know what your wife is capable of.

I am sorry for the situation, and thank you for your service.


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## sinnister

Feeling_bad said:


> Thanks for the words. You're probably the first Eagles fan I ever found to be sound. Go Giants


Ewwww. VaGiant fan. LOL.


----------



## the guy

I'm coming in late but I just wanted to add that now that you know your wifes capacity to drink to much and misbehave its good that her NC with the drinking will help affair proof the marriage.

Thats not all, the affair proof business has to go way behond not drinking, there's IC and a large degree of submission and consequences that she needs to face. 

Her lack of privacy will most likely be the hardest for her, that and no more GNO's will be tough, but if the M is that important she will pay her dues. 

Its been about 2-1/2 yrs since I confronted my wife and the trust slowly does come back thru my fWW own actions. It can work out but my chic payed a heavy price for me to keep her around.

So its more about her doing the heavy lifting to keep her marriage, you did nothing to make her give a handi to some guy so if any one needs to make the change here its her. So often the betrayed think they have to do the work to keep the wayward from straying and that just doesn't work. 

Its all about the wayward doing the work to stay, don't let anyone tell you different.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Www.doccool.com

Forums for cheaters, how to not get caught, how to do it right etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ikaika

the guy said:


> I'm coming in late but I just wanted to add that now that you know your wifes capacity to drink to much and misbehave its good that her NC with the drinking will help affair proof the marriage.
> 
> Thats not all, the affair proof business has to go way behond not drinking, there's IC and a large degree of submission and consequences that she needs to face.
> 
> Her lack of privacy will most likely be the hardest for her, that and no more GNO's will be tough, but if the M is that important she will pay her dues.
> 
> Its been about 2-1/2 yrs since I confronted my wife and the trust slowly does come back thru my fWW own actions. It can work out but my chic payed a heavy price for me to keep her around.
> 
> So its more about her doing the heavy lifting to keep her marriage, you did nothing to make her give a handi to some guy so if any one needs to make the change here its her. So often the betrayed think they have to do the work to keep the wayward from straying and that just doesn't work.
> 
> Its all about the wayward doing the work to stay, don't let anyone tell you different.


Feeling_bad

This is it... this is the rope I was trying to describe to you. Thanks "the guy" for articulating the point so well. Lots of good help and advice, if you are willing to parse through it all. 

This is why this site can be so good.


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## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> You're absolutely right...I'm meeting with her in about a half hour and plan to tell her.


Good Move Buddy.

Sharing information works both ways.

Have a drink together while you are both comparing your beautiful spouses.

I think you are doing a great job of keeping it together so far.

How is your wife handling herself so far???


----------



## Feeling_bad

the guy said:


> I'm coming in late but I just wanted to add that now that you know your wifes capacity to drink to much and misbehave its good that her NC with the drinking will help affair proof the marriage.
> 
> Thats not all, the affair proof business has to go way behond not drinking, there's IC and a large degree of submission and consequences that she needs to face.
> 
> Her lack of privacy will most likely be the hardest for her, that and no more GNO's will be tough, but if the M is that important she will pay her dues.
> 
> Its been about 2-1/2 yrs since I confronted my wife and the trust slowly does come back thru my fWW own actions. It can work out but my chic payed a heavy price for me to keep her around.
> 
> So its more about her doing the heavy lifting to keep her marriage, you did nothing to make her give a handi to some guy so if any one needs to make the change here its her. So often the betrayed think they have to do the work to keep the wayward from straying and that just doesn't work.
> 
> Its all about the wayward doing the work to stay, don't let anyone tell you different.


How long did it take you to get back on decent speaking terms with your wife? I have nothing nice to say to my wife now, and I just want to make her feel my pain. The limited conversations we have involves me very meticulously detailing the hurt she gave me. I watch her cry and beg forgiveness each time. So how long does that go on? I can't imagine being nice to her again while I still have the vision in my head. The bathroom door opening to see those 2 going at it is replaying in my head over and over and over again.

I saw a military chaplain today, but he was no help in giving me ideas to cope with my pain. I have an appointment Thursday to see a professional relationship counselor. I hope this helps, cause the sooner I can cope with what I saw, the sooner I can start working towards R.


----------



## Feeling_bad

happyman64 said:


> Good Move Buddy.
> 
> Sharing information works both ways.
> 
> Have a drink together while you are both comparing your beautiful spouses.
> 
> I think you are doing a great job of keeping it together so far.
> 
> How is your wife handling herself so far???


I told the OMW about what her husband confessed to my wife on Friday night (i.e., cheated on his wife twice). She took it alright, cried a bit, but then collected herself. A few hours later she asked her husband (the OM) about it. He stated it's not true and only told my wife that to make himself look more like a man. What a d#uche bag.


----------



## Feeling_bad

badbane said:


> I think that while you are doing a good job I think you have not gone for enough back. Her best friend hasn't known her that long. So I doubt your wife would her past on her since she really is somewhat a short term friend.
> IMO if you really want to know I would rug sweep. tell her you believe her and that she shouldn't do it anymore but you love her. Then throw a gps in her car and watch and wait. A lot of people on here have read just how deep the rabbit hole can go and how fooled BS can be.
> I just ask that you go all the way back to the start and work your way forward. Otherwise you will always wonder now you know what your wife is capable of.
> 
> I am sorry for the situation, and thank you for your service.


I would certainly go back if I could, but being military, everyone moves around so much and I don't even know where a lot of those folks live now. I suppose I could track some down on FB, but I'm not comfortable sharing the details of this with old friends who have since kinda become strangers to us.


----------



## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> I told the OMW about what her husband confessed to my wife on Friday night (i.e., cheated on his wife twice). She took it alright, cried a bit, but then collected herself. A few hours later she asked her husband (the OM) about it. He stated it's not true and only told my wife that to make himself look more like a man. What a d#uche bag.


he is a [email protected] I 2nd that.

I also understand how angry you are at your wife. And you are right to seek counselling. Because yelling at her is causing more pain for both of you. You are just too angry to realize it. Again, justifiably angry.

Reach out to morituri. Ask him for how he deals with these type of images. He can give you some valid suggestions because he has had to deal with lousy images as well.


----------



## Feeling_bad

chapparal said:


> Re sex once a week or so. It has been posted at TAM that according to experts, sex three times a month, is virtually a sexless marriage. YOu seem to be near that. Also, your wife's age, I believe, is also bringing her into her sexual peak.
> 
> Read "MArried Man Sex Life" (not a sex manual) and I think you will have your eyes opened about the dynamic between man and wife.
> 
> The two of you also need to read "His Needs Her Needs."


Just curious how old you are. 12 years of marriage, with up to 3 kids in the house (when my 2 older ones are visiting) and me working 9-12 hour days. I thought I was doing alright. I'll share this fact of yours with my wife if we reconcile, and try to up the weekly count


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## kenmoore14217

3 times a month !!!! in my household they would say: you the man!!


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> I would certainly go back if I could, but being military, everyone moves around so much and I don't even know where a lot of those folks live now. I suppose I could track some down on FB, but I'm not comfortable sharing the details of this with old friends who have since kinda become strangers to us.


Not so sure I would try this either. Unless there was just one person Inthought could shed some light.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Feeling bad,
> 
> I've been reading and thinking about your situation since yesterday. It really resonates with me. I'm a military spouse, late 30's, and I've seen my husband through 4 deployments and the countless other training periods that go along with being a soldier.
> 
> At our last duty station, we made great friends with 3 other couples in our neighborhood and had a standing Friday night game night at one of our houses. It was a safe place to relax, have drinks, enjoy the company of friends, and the kids loved being able to stay up late at a friend's house or maybe even sleep over. It was a win-win for all of us. So, I have been exactly where you were the other night (except for the cheating).
> 
> When you explained how your wife has stood by you during the deployments and helped with step-kids and that there were no other signs of deception. I decided you were probably right and were able to catch this the first time it went physical.
> 
> So then I started thinking, kind of putting myself in your wife's place, what would make me jump over all those internal boundaries like that. She basically leaped over them. And I'm sure alcohol played a huge factor. (I am like your wife in that alcohol makes me very aroused. My husband loves to see me reach for that second drink.  But even then, my affection is always directed toward my husband. Sounds like previously that was true for your wife.
> 
> The thing I kept getting hung upon, like some others, is how rapidly the pants came down. How could that happen that fast? A stolen drunken kiss? Maybe. But pants down, first time out of the gate? What could make that happen so fast?
> 
> Because of the similar life situations, I asked myself, "What could make me do that, in just that manner, so quickly?" I came up with one possible solution. Take it with a grain of salt, if you must. I am by no means claiming that this is what happened. But maybe....
> 
> Several weeks ago, she hung out with him. They flirted. He is attractive to her. She is flattered that he seems to find her attractive. There is no communication between them, but....she thinks about him. Begins to fantasize about him. A slow progression. Fantasies can't hurt, right? She thinks about kissing him, then about (fill in the blank). I won't get graphic. But fantasies can progress slowly and be rewritten constantly to achieve "perfection". She had several weeks to work her fantasies about him into a fever pitch. And then he comes to her house. They both get drunk. They sneak off a few times and manage to have some "private conversation." She's drinking. The barriers are falling. Each time they are alone, even for a minute, he is making subtle moves. Touching her. Looking into her eyes. Then, he makes his big move. And her fantasy is suddenly alive. She's already done exactly this with him in her mind. She doesn't even have to think about what she does next, because she has already done this many times in her fantasies. The alcohol has triple fast-forwarded the progression of their "relationship."
> 
> Without the alcohol, it probably would have taken much longer to get to this point. And if your wife really does have strong morals, she may have been to stop and shake herself free of it before anything happened.
> 
> My point to this narrative is this, fantasies can be very detrimental. It's a very bad idea to fantasize about a person you really know and find attractive (if you are married). So, maybe this isn't what happened with your wife. But, it might explain how she so easily went there in such risky place and time. If this is what happened, it's something she can entirely control in the future. We can control the direction of our thoughts! Food for thought.


Thanks WaSM. Definitely makes sense. In fact, one of the comments made by my wife over the last couple of days was that she feels like she's fat and unattractive sometimes (which she's not at all), so she would never have thought some guy would put moves on her. Perhaps there was some excitement and curiosity on her part knowing another man thought her attractive. I might print this one out and show it to my wife to get her thoughts on it.


----------



## badbane

Feeling_bad said:


> I would certainly go back if I could, but being military, everyone moves around so much and I don't even know where a lot of those folks live now. I suppose I could track some down on FB, but I'm not comfortable sharing the details of this with old friends who have since kinda become strangers to us.


As much as it might suck would you consider talking to a PI.


----------



## Feeling_bad

badbane said:


> As much as it might suck would you consider talking to a PI.


Ok, still a newbie to this board. Are you saying a private investigator. For what, to investigate what is currently going on to see if a relationship exists with the OM or to uncover something from the past? If from the past, I would need a specific incident that I was suspicious of, and nothing comes to mind.


----------



## jnj express

I guess I'm gonna stick my nose in here

1st---my wife ran a DUI school for san bernardino county--so as to alcohol--I know of what I speak

FALLING DOWN dead to the world DRUNKS---KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG----your wife knew what she was doing---so stop with the alcohol excuses AT ALL, also if you do stay--ALCOHOL is out of her life COMPLETELY AND FOREVER---and she signs on to that as part of a POST --NUP

Next facts----they kept disappearing together---don't think for one minute by the 2nd or third time they weren't stealing kisses------when he TOLD HER HE HAD CHEATED TWICE PRIOR---that should have been her red flag---yet she continued on with him, knowing full well what he wanted---cuz his telling her about cheating, was him brooching the subject and opening the door---so there was another red flag she went thru

You calling into the bathroom---should have awoke her from her chemical flow toward him, but she wanted him so badly she kept her mouth shut, didn't stop, and "dissed you" CUZ SHE WANTED TO

Now lets get to what you do now---1st take all her clothes, and cosmetics, and put them and her in a small room somewhere in your house, and that is where SHE LIVES for the time being---she needs a whole lot of reality thrown at her, and that is your starting point---she does not get to go back into her life as it was before this incident---she is out of the nice comfortable marital bedroom---this is part of her ACCOUNTABILITY

You will not forget this anytime soon--cuz your SUB--CONSCIOUS will not LET YOU FORGET IT---as long as you see her---the triggers will be there---she is your main trigger---so this isn't gonna end anytime soon---IF EVER, for you and your sub--consc.

If you do stay with her---there have to be stringent, harsh boundaries, with ACTIONABLE, not words, CONSEQUENCES

you may very well wanna hold her feet to the fire, and let her know D., is on the table---let her get a taste of reality, in exchange for her stupdity, and what she put you thru, and for what her own daughter might have seen---as in DADDY WHAT IS MOMMY DOING WITH THAT MAN!!!!!!!

For a long period of time---no lovey--dovey----no mr nice guy---and she does everything, all the heavy lifting to make the R. go

Post --nup gets signed---no more alcohol, no more GNO---NO MORE FLIRTING OF ANY KIND---violation of any of these things---you go straight to D

I don't care if she doesn't like how she looks/feels----her BS---has destroyed you, and possibly her own daughter, and she WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!


----------



## Feeling_bad

jnj express said:


> I guess I'm gonna stick my nose in here
> 
> 1st---my wife ran a DUI school for san bernardino county--so as to alcohol--I know of what I speak
> 
> FALLING DOWN dead to the world DRUNKS---KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG----your wife knew what she was doing---so stop with the alcohol excuses AT ALL, also if you do stay--ALCOHOL is out of her life COMPLETELY AND FOREVER---and she signs on to that as part of a POST --NUP
> 
> Next facts----they kept disappearing together---don't think for one minute by the 2nd or third time they weren't stealing kisses------when he TOLD HER HE HAD CHEATED TWICE PRIOR---that should have been her red flag---yet she continued on with him, knowing full well what he wanted---cuz his telling her about cheating, was him brooching the subject and opening the door---so there was another red flag she went thru
> 
> You calling into the bathroom---should have awoke her from her chemical flow toward him, but she wanted him so badly she kept her mouth shut, didn't stop, and "dissed you" CUZ SHE WANTED TO
> 
> Now lets get to what you do now---1st take all her clothes, and cosmetics, and put them and her in a small room somewhere in your house, and that is where SHE LIVES for the time being---she needs a whole lot of reality thrown at her, and that is your starting point---she does not get to go back into her life as it was before this incident---she is out of the nice comfortable marital bedroom---this is part of her ACCOUNTABILITY
> 
> You will not forget this anytime soon--cuz your SUB--CONSCIOUS will not LET YOU FORGET IT---as long as you see her---the triggers will be there---she is your main trigger---so this isn't gonna end anytime soon---IF EVER, for you and your sub--consc.
> 
> If you do stay with her---there have to be stringent, harsh boundaries, with ACTIONABLE, not words, CONSEQUENCES
> 
> you may very well wanna hold her feet to the fire, and let her know D., is on the table---let her get a taste of reality, in exchange for her stupdity, and what she put you thru, and for what her own daughter might have seen---as in DADDY WHAT IS MOMMY DOING WITH THAT MAN!!!!!!!
> 
> For a long period of time---no lovey--dovey----no mr nice guy---and she does everything, all the heavy lifting to make the R. go
> 
> Post --nup gets signed---no more alcohol, no more GNO---NO MORE FLIRTING OF ANY KIND---violation of any of these things---you go straight to D
> 
> I don't care if she doesn't like how she looks/feels----her BS---has destroyed you, and possibly her own daughter, and she WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!


Painfully, I agree with virtually all of this, and have expressed all this with my wife. The fact my wife wanted to hang around this guy and get flirty and promiscuous with him, especially with me in the house infuriates me, and frankly goes right at my ego. I'm sure any man would understand. As for the alcohol, I think it was a factor that got her to the line of cheating, but it is not an excuse to cross that line after 12 years of commitment. I've been sh#t-faced drunk too, and couldn't imagine crossing that line.

As for the after actions you speak of, I'm doing all that, except keeping makeup from her, although she hasn't worn any and it wouldn't stick on anyway with all her tears. Nonetheless she has been keeping busy with chores each day, hoping I will engage in conversation with her. I haven't helped at all, but really not because I'm punishing her, I just don't want anything to do with her right now. And when I do engage in conversation, it's to remind her how much she devastated me.

P.S. - thanks for the warning about my sub-conscience never letting this go. I feel like that is going to be a major factor in my being able to forgive her. If I can't find a way to cope with what I saw, I don't think I can R.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few pages and the last few. Question though....have you both agreed that you have to be 100% no contact with these other people at this point? How were you friends with them in the first place? Does one of you work with one of them or something? Just seems to be that your families are going to have to go no-contact if it's ever going to work out.


----------



## Feeling_bad

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few pages and the last few. Question though....have you both agreed that you have to be 100% no contact with these other people at this point? How were you friends with them in the first place? Does one of you work with one of them or something? Just seems to be that your families are going to have to go no-contact if it's ever going to work out.


Our daughters were in Kindergarten together and the wives became friends. The OM and I were merely acquaintances who hung out only when the wives arranged something. The OMW and I are working together to ensure this was indeed a one-off and not a relationship that was developing, but I agree we have to completely cut off ties with them. The unfortunate part is our daughters are best friends and adore each other. The OM and my wife really screwed it up for them.


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## WorkingOnMe

Ya it's unfortunate but I would say the kids can no longer be friends either. One of them will need to change schools.


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## Acabado

Glad to hear you are taking the time to read and absorve the advice here.
I think you have the head exactly where it has to be. 
Manly hugs.


----------



## The bishop

The red flags were there she just chooses to ignore them. Her doing this with you and your daughter in the next room and her keeping quiet in the bathroom when you knocked would be enough for me to throw her out.


----------



## lordmayhem

Feeling_bad said:


> I saw a military chaplain today, but he was no help in giving me ideas to cope with my pain. I have an appointment Thursday to see a professional relationship counselor. I hope this helps, cause the sooner I can cope with what I saw, the sooner I can start working towards R.


There are more resources on base than just the chaplain, you should be able to make use of them. As for not kicking the wife out, there's more to it than her family is 4 states away.


----------



## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> That's the plan she tells me. In my conversation with the OMW this evening, I specifically asked her if my wife "behaves" during GNO. OMW says my wife does nothing worthy of making me mad or distrustful. I would think the OMW would give me the full dish now if my wife was doing something wrong.
> 
> Which is exactly why I should and will give her the full dish about her husband's past.


It's reasonable. But beware of the sisterhood.


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. But this should tell you that the OMW may not be telling you the whole truth either. As you have not told her.
> 
> So there you are. You are covering for the OM, so perhaps the OMW is covering for your wife.
> 
> Ok ... grasping at straws. You say the wife flirts with women. Is it possible there has been a threesome? Or discussion of a threesome? That the OM getting with your wife was not part f the deal. Or maybe just more to the ladies relationship?


Sounds completely nutty, doesn't it? I've been thinking the same thing. OMW dropped the ball on keeping OP occupied while WW and OM could get their jollies under OP's nose and a good time would be had by all. The fact, assuming it is a fact, that OM got kicked out of his house would bring that theory in question. However, if OP "reconciles" and returns home quickly, it's back in play.


----------



## jnj express

I don't know where you are headed with all of this---If D., is what you need to do, cuz being with/looking at/talking to/touching her, reviles you---then that's where you need to go-------you don't want to spend the rest of your life in misery, and cuz of what your wife has done---there just may be no way around her ONS, and yes had you not walked in she would have been involved in UNPROTECTED sex, cuz I am sure with his tool in her hand, she was probably about to help him enter her, otherwise why would her pants be down

You say she left the room in a stupor---or is it she just was pis*ed off at you messing up her attempt at having sex with this guy

If you decide to stay and R---a few things---1st you should not even think about starting R, until your wife can give you a WHY, for all of this---and once again---alcohol may have helped, but your wife KNEW WHAT SHE WAS DOING----I E: the timed leaving for her and the OM, when they went to check on the kids----that had to be worked out to some extent---it couldn't have been spontaneous, especially if she was playing the game with the rest of you---you all would have had to stop, and wait on her to return-------also keeping quiet when you called out into the restroom---also the brazenness, of having sex, in your home with you and your daughter there, and even more so, where the daughter could have walked in, on her own mother, and seeing her with another man

Once again---WHY did this happen to a 37 yr old wife, and mother, and why did she risk all, did she just not care-----WHY

If you do get the why, then this must be fixed, and that fix also predates any attempt at R., ---your wife just doesn't get to read some books, and it is all better---NO WAY------

She needs to address the fact that she a 37 yr old woman, got so drunk she passed out---WHAT WAS SO SCREWED UP IN HER LIFE, that she had to drink herself into oblivion---

If you stay there needs to be these questions answered, and a fix put in place, along with the aforementioned boundaries

While all of this is going on----you need to keep her at arms length---this is not punishment---this is the reality of her accountability, and the fact that she just does not get to go back to her nice cushy life she had before she brought nuclear winter down upon her family

You do need to be formal, cold, and do not show her any love at this point----if you decide to stay and R., that will come when you decide, you want to take her back as a wife---she cannot percieve you as being weak, or easy in the way you handle this, for if she does, she may at some point do this again, as she knows she got away with it this time, as you took her back

her getting back into the family comes with, and only with, a high price for her to pay, which includes her doing all and every bit of the heavy lifting!!!!!!


----------



## Feeling_bad

delhiprincess said:


> Feeling
> Why dont you pay her back, tell her if want to make things right, Im going to get with other man wife, same position same thing. so she can feel the pain and you get even.
> I have told husband if he ever cheated i will pay him back. eye for an eye and it would be in front of him too so he can have his own med.


I'm not physically attracted to the OM's wife, and it wouldn't make me feel any better. 

Maybe if I found a smokin hot chick, I would...j/k


----------



## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> I'm not physically attracted to the OM's wife at all, and it wouldn't make me feel any better.
> 
> Maybe if I found a hotter chick, I would...j/k


:iagree:

Two wrongs never make it right. And from experience on TAM it only makes it worse.

Just work on you.

And get your wife to work on herself. She needs it.

And keep drunk needle**** away from your family.....


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

A revenge affair wouldn't solve anything.


----------



## Ikaika

delhiprincess said:


> Feeling
> Why dont you pay her back, tell her if want to make things right, Im going to get with other man wife, same position same thing. so she can feel the pain and you get even.
> I have told husband if he ever cheated i will pay him back. eye for an eye and it would be in front of him too so he can have his own med.


Don't do this... If you do, it is over for sure. If you are looking for a way to repair your marriage (to which there is others giving more salient advice), this would not be the road to go down. If you however want out of the marriage, go ahead.


----------



## Feeling_bad

drerio said:


> Don't do this... If you do, it is over for sure. If you are looking for a way to repair your marriage (to which there is others giving more salient advice), this would not be the road to go down. If you however want out of the marriage, go ahead.


No worries...that idea has not crossed my mind at all. While I know it would hurt my wife, it would do nothing at all to heal me.


----------



## alte Dame

As a woman who battled a drinking problem for a long time & is long married, this thread is a real cautionary tale. At one point in my life I could have done something as self-destructive as your wife. Luckily, I never did. But, for me, the drunken fantasy world was literally a world apart from my real life. The problem was definitely mine; it wasn't my husband's, or our marriage, or whatever dynamic we were in. I stopped drinking and dealt with my issues. Still love my husband ridiculously & have never wavered, nor do I care to.

Your wife should first stop the drinking completely. It might take a long time for her to get her head screwed on in a healthier way if she does this. She no doubt needs counseling. Your betrayal is profound, but if you choose to offer her another chance, you should consider it only with serious conditions. The pictures in your head of her with OM may make this impossible....At any rate, my sense is that it's very possible that this really was her first foray - there's a first time for everything, right? If she's truly remorseful, that itself might help you figure out your next steps. The drinking has to be completely over, though.


----------



## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> I'm not physically attracted to the OM's wife, and it wouldn't make me feel any better.
> 
> Maybe if I found a smokin hot chick, I would...j/k


The immature part of my brain wishes that you could tell the OM that you and his W hooked up for revenge.(with the OMW playing along with you)

Terrible idea, but that should give both your W and OM some perspective and the pain the BS are going through.


Did you tell the OMW about his previous affairs?


----------



## badbane

Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, still a newbie to this board. Are you saying a private investigator. For what, to investigate what is currently going on to see if a relationship exists with the OM or to uncover something from the past? If from the past, I would need a specific incident that I was suspicious of, and nothing comes to mind.


To see if he can find past infidelity. I mean if your wife has done this before or had an EA before it is likely she kept it stashed. Like an old almost dead email address. Just for peace of mind.


----------



## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> The immature part of my brain wishes that you could tell the OM that you and his W hooked up for revenge.(with the OMW playing along with you)
> 
> Terrible idea, but that should give both your W and OM some perspective and the pain the BS are going through.
> 
> 
> Did you tell the OMW about his previous affairs?


Yes, I told her. She asked her husband about it, and he said he was kidding when he told my wife this just to make himself look more like a man. Not sure I get that rationale, and frankly it sounds like bullsh#t. I'm not advising the OMW in any way, just giving her a sounding board, but even the possibility that this could be her husband's 4th time, she ought to get rid of him.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Feeling_bad said:


> Yes, I told her. She asked her husband about it, and he said he was kidding when he told my wife this just to make himself look more like a man. Not sure I get that rationale, and frankly it sounds like bullsh#t. I'm not advising the OMW in any way, just giving her a sounding board, but even the possibility that this could be her husband's 4th time, she ought to get rid of him.


most likely gaslighting on the OM's behalf- trying to wiggle his way out of admitting to more affairs she doesn't have proof for (yet)

did your wife mention with whom he cheated with?


----------



## Feeling_bad

Almostrecovered said:


> most likely gaslighting on the OM's behalf- trying to wiggle his way out of admitting to more affairs she doesn't have proof for (yet)
> 
> did your wife mention with whom he cheated with?


Yes, with girls he met while deployed (no specific names). I passed that info on to the OMW.

Also, I read your story, and while very sad to hear about your history, you're an awesome writer. You should definitely consider writing a book on this topic.


----------



## Almostrecovered

unfortunately with that information the OMW has little recourse in being able investigate those claims, a shame, I'm not a fan of polygraphs but in this case it may be a good suggestion for her, the way he reacts may be more telling than the test itself

and thanks for the compliments


----------



## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> Yes, I told her. She asked her husband about it, and he said he was kidding when he told my wife this just to make himself look more like a man. Not sure I get that rationale, and frankly it sounds like bullsh#t. I'm not advising the OMW in any way, just giving her a sounding board, but even the possibility that this could be her husband's 4th time, she ought to get rid of him.


The OM is pulling the CYA plan now that he was caught with your wife, is living in a motel, and I am sure his wife has mentioned the divorce word a few times.

Just wonder how that coversation with your wife started or how it was even brought up. Hi -- I cheated on my wife twice -- she don't know -- you want to go with me and check on the kids.

Sorry -- but your whole situation still doesn't make any sense to me.

Take care Feel !!


----------



## Almostrecovered

what is your plan right now?

I understand you are not jumping into R right away (which is prudent), but it does sound as if you are leaning in that direction

I still think you should make the standard consequences like getting an STD test for both of you (even though it's unlikely that she contracted anything it is good to show this consequence so she can think about how careless she acted), seeing a lawyer for info to protect yourself and to show her that you are serious, etc


----------



## Ikaika

alte Dame said:


> As a woman who battled a drinking problem for a long time & is long married, this thread is a real cautionary tale. At one point in my life I could have done something as self-destructive as your wife. Luckily, I never did. But, for me, the drunken fantasy world was literally a world apart from my real life. The problem was definitely mine; it wasn't my husband's, or our marriage, or whatever dynamic we were in. I stopped drinking and dealt with my issues. Still love my husband ridiculously & have never wavered, nor do I care to.
> 
> Your wife should first stop the drinking completely. It might take a long time for her to get her head screwed on in a healthier way if she does this. She no doubt needs counseling. Your betrayal is profound, but if you choose to offer her another chance, you should consider it only with serious conditions. The pictures in your head of her with OM may make this impossible....At any rate, my sense is that it's very possible that this really was her first foray - there's a first time for everything, right? If she's truly remorseful, that itself might help you figure out your next steps. The drinking has to be completely over, though.


Actually I would take it a step further... You may not have the same issues with drinking that your wife has, but you too may want to consider going dry. This will no doubt change many dynamics in your life. The friends you have (I am guessing currently drinking always has some part), the kind of social fares you have with others, etc. Consider this as starting anew for both of you. 

While I still hold (as others do as well), that it is your wife that needs to make most of the effort towards R, you may want to have this input into it as well.


----------



## WalkingInLight

Feeling_bad said:


> ... And when I do engage in conversation, it's to remind her how much she devastated me...





Feeling_bad said:


> ...I have nothing nice to say to my wife now, and I just want to make her feel my pain. The limited conversations we have involves me very meticulously detailing the hurt she gave me. I watch her cry and beg forgiveness each time...


Friend, this is emotionally abusive behavior. It's OK to tell her that she hurt you, but to continue to be graphic - to talk about what she did and to detail it, as you indicated in an earlier post that you are doing, is textbook emotional abuse.

You’re hurt, that’s normal. But don’t bully your wife with your pain no matter how much you want her to feel what you feel – from what you have shared so far, she already does. If you want to save your marriage – stop now before you do any additional damage.

I’d like to recommend that you read the book, “Who Switched off My Brain.” If getting rid of your mind movies is what you are looking to do, then I believe you’ll find this instrumental to your recovery.

Whatever you choose to do with your wife – reconcile or walk away, just remember that at one point you’ll need to come to the place of being able to forgive her. It’s a tough ask, true, but right now, the unforgiveness in your heart is only hurting you more… holding on to unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

Whatever you choose I wish you all the best.


----------



## CH

WalkingInLight said:


> Friend, this is emotionally abusive behavior. It's OK to tell her that she hurt you, but to continue to be graphic - to talk about what she did and to detail it, as you indicated in an earlier post that you are doing, is textbook emotional abuse.
> 
> You’re hurt, that’s normal. But don’t bully your wife with your pain no matter how much you want her to feel what you feel – from what you have shared so far, she already does. If you want to save your marriage – stop now before you do any additional damage.
> 
> I’d like to recommend that you read the book, “Who Switched off My Brain.” If getting rid of your mind movies is what you are looking to do, then I believe you’ll find this instrumental to your recovery.
> 
> Whatever you choose to do with your wife – reconcile or walk away, just remember that at one point you’ll need to come to the place of being able to forgive her. It’s a tough ask, true, but right now, the unforgiveness in your heart is only hurting you more… holding on to unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.
> 
> Whatever you choose I wish you all the best.


It's only been about a week since this happened. He's still questioning himself and her as to why this could happen. It's not like it's 5 years later and he's still going at it with her.

If you can forgive your wife for having OM's wang in her hand with her pants around her ankle in about a week then you've got a heart of gold.

OP is still sitting up at night wondering how could this happen, why did it happen, who is this person next to me now and a billion other questions that are running through his mind.


----------



## alte Dame

If I had done this to my husband, I think I would have been in remorseful, begging mode for a very long time. I would accept anything he had to say to me, knowing the depth of hurt I had caused.


----------



## WalkingInLight

cheatinghubby said:


> It's only been about a week since this happened. He's still questioning himself and her as to why this could happen. It's not like it's 5 years later and he's still going at it with her.
> 
> If you can forgive your wife for having OM's wang in her hand with her pants around her ankle in about a week then you've got a heart of gold.
> 
> OP is still sitting up at night wondering how could this happen, why did it happen, who is this person next to me now and a billion other questions that are running through his mind.


Yes, which is why I said, "at some point..." It's a journey for him as it is for the rest of us. Abusing his wife constantly will not help him get there any quicker.

Or rather put, in your opinion, how long should he continue to be emotionally abusive do you think? What's a reasonable timeframe would you say?

Now remember, before you respond - I'm not talking about sharing his pain with her, I'm talking about being as graphic in detail as to inflict as much emotional harm on her as possible.


----------



## snap

Just calling something "abuse" doesn't make it so. 

Reminding her what she did is not abuse. It's not something HE did, it's not something he is making up. It's something he seen HER doing! And now he suddenly abusive!

Great way to turn the tables.


----------



## WalkingInLight

snap said:


> Just calling something "abuse" doesn't make it so.
> 
> Reminding her what she did is not abuse. It's not something HE did, it's not something he is making up. It's something he seen HER doing! And now he suddenly abusive!
> 
> Great way to turn the tables.


Friend, detailing the hurt on an ongoing behavior is abuse. Saying, "you cheated on me and I’m hurt because you betrayed me" is normal. 

Detailing what he saw her doing (your pants were down and your hand was…) on an ongoing basis is where the emotionally abusive aspect comes in.


----------



## jh52

WalkingInLight said:


> Yes, which is why I said, "at some point..." It's a journey for him as it is for the rest of us. Abusing his wife constantly will not help him get there any quicker.
> 
> Or rather put, in your opinion, how long should he continue to be emotionally abusive do you think? What's a reasonable timeframe would you say?
> 
> Now remember, before you respond - I'm not talking about sharing his pain with her, I'm talking about being as graphic in detail as to inflict as much emotional harm on her as possible.


This happened last Friday night -- less than 4 days ago. I think you need to cut Feel some slack.


----------



## Zanna

WalkingInLight said:


> Friend, detailing the hurt on an ongoing behavior is abuse. Saying, "you cheated on me and I’m hurt because you betrayed me" is normal.
> 
> Detailing what he saw her doing (your pants were down and your hand was…) on an ongoing basis is where the emotionally abusive aspect comes in.


If he needs to "detail" the behaviour to move past it, then that's what he needs. It's been a week for crying out loud.

Calling him abusive, considering the state of mind the poor man must be in LESS THAN a week after finding his wife in such a compromising position could be deemed abusive too. Talk about blaming the victim. He's expressing his pain and anger not hitting her.


----------



## Ikaika

WalkingInLight said:


> Yes, which is why I said, "at some point..." It's a journey for him as it is for the rest of us. Abusing his wife constantly will not help him get there any quicker.
> 
> Or rather put, in your opinion, how long should he continue to be emotionally abusive do you think? What's a reasonable timeframe would you say?
> 
> Now remember, before you respond - I'm not talking about sharing his pain with her, I'm talking about being as graphic in detail as to inflict as much emotional harm on her as possible.


I understand your point... since none of us are able to be the fly on the wall, we don't know what he is actually saying (along with his demeanor) and what she is saying in response other than crying and such. 

What I am reading between the lines, is that he is very hurt (his ego has taken a huge blow to boot), she is hurt and probably feeling a sense of loss. 

My strongest recommendations would be to have third party intervention take place. They both need a good support system. I am a strong advocate for NOT going alone down this road. They need someone who is not going to take sides but provide some level of support and accountability. I don't know enough about their situation, but if possible to find a support system. Reading books is a great way to gather information, but having that human contact to really help with the healing is very important.


----------



## WalkingInLight

jh52 said:


> This happened last Friday night -- less than 4 days ago. I think you need to cut Feel some slack.


That would be the "at some point" part of my post.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The betrayed spouse defines what the wandering spouse has to go through to reconcile. If she doesn't like it she can GTFO. And dwelling on the details for 4 days is certainly not abuse. Although going to third base with your hand on another man's **** while your husband is in the next room sounds pretty abusive to me.


----------



## snap

WalkingInLight said:


> Friend, detailing the hurt on an ongoing behavior is abuse. Saying, "you cheated on me and I’m hurt because you betrayed me" is normal.
> 
> Detailing what he saw her doing (your pants were down and your hand was…) on an ongoing basis is where the emotionally abusive aspect comes in.


Asking the details about the affair is nothing unusual. For BS it's an attempt to make a narrative where everything (when, how, where) finally makes sense.

Yes it's painful for the WS, but it's the necessary part of the process. It's not like the BS enjoys his questions and mind movies either.

Now there is a point of view that the BS should just zip it up, get over it and enjoy he wasn't dumped, but it's not popular here.


----------



## WalkingInLight

drerio said:


> I understand your point... since none of us are able to be the fly on the wall, we don't know what he is actually saying (along with his demeanor) and what she is saying in response other than crying and such.
> 
> What I am reading between the lines, is that he is very hurt (his ego has taken a huge blow to boot), she is hurt and probably feeling a sense of loss.
> 
> My strongest recommendations would be to have third party intervention take place. They both need a good support system. I am a strong advocate for NOT going alone down this road. They need someone who is not going to take sides but provide some level of support and accountability. I don't know enough about their situation, but if possible to find a support system. Reading books is a great way to gather information, but having that human contact to really help with the healing is very important.


Absolutely agree - getting help and someone to talk to would be very helpful in working through this situation.

It wasn't until I was able to talk to others and to get counseling that I began to heal. I needed to hear some hard truths, but I'm glad I did or I wouldn't be where I am today.


----------



## Feeling_bad

WalkingInLight said:


> Yes, which is why I said, "at some point..." It's a journey for him as it is for the rest of us. Abusing his wife constantly will not help him get there any quicker.
> 
> Or rather put, in your opinion, how long should he continue to be emotionally abusive do you think? What's a reasonable timeframe would you say?
> 
> Now remember, before you respond - I'm not talking about sharing his pain with her, I'm talking about being as graphic in detail as to inflict as much emotional harm on her as possible.


I appreciate your input, and I see some merit to this. It actually pains me to hurt her like that, but it's important to me that she understands the full pain I feel. I still feel there are details about the night she is not exposing, like the events that led up to going into the bathroom, so I'm keeping up the questioning...which does ultimately lead to a dark place in me that gets graphic. If and when I make the commitment to reconcile, I understand I need to be past the point where I bring this up every time we have a future argument.


----------



## WalkingInLight

snap said:


> Asking the details about the affair is nothing unusual. For BS it's an attempt to make a narrative where everything (when, how, where) finally makes sense.


Agree 100% - exactly what I did too. It didn't help with the mind movies and every now and then I still trigger massively, but It's what worked for me at the time.



snap said:


> Yes it's painful for the WS, but it's the necessary part of the process. It's not like the BS enjoys his questions and mind movies either.
> 
> Now there is a point of view that the BS should just zip it up, get over it and enjoy he wasn't dumped, but it's not popular here.


Oh, I'm not saying he shouldn't say anything to his wife - that would be insanity. The only thing I said was the detailed aspects of his comments.

As he himself noted, he is detailing the pain and then sitting back and watching her cry. That's understandable human nature - but at some point, backing off the details and sticking to the surface of the incident is needed if R is the goal.

I'll make this my last post on this particular topic as I don't want this to become about whether anyone else agrees/disagrees with me and to derail this man's post or to take away from the pain he is experiencing.

I've been through the worst pain I have ever felt in my life and managed to reconcile with my FWW. I simply wanted to share a point of view with him that helped me move towards R even in the first week of my discovery.


----------



## Feeling_bad

alte Dame said:


> If I had done this to my husband, I think I would have been in remorseful, begging mode for a very long time. I would accept anything he had to say to me, knowing the depth of hurt I had caused.


Thanks aD, and this is exactly how my wife is acting now.


----------



## Feeling_bad

delhiprincess said:


> what was your wife reaction when you walked in her holding the other man's. ???
> was she shocked? or uncare? or etcc


She was completely unresponsive. She lazily pulled her pants up, struggled to get them buttoned while hobbling to our bed. She passed out after a short verbal outburst from me. She was completely out of her mind.

The next morning when she woke up, she began her profuse apologies and crying.


----------



## WalkingInLight

Feeling_bad said:


> I appreciate your input, and I see some merit to this. It actually pains me to hurt her like that, but it's important to me that she understands the full pain I feel. I still feel there are details about the night she is not exposing, like the events that led up to going into the bathroom, so I'm keeping up the questioning...which does ultimately lead to a dark place in me that gets graphic. If and when I make the commitment to reconcile, I understand I need to be past the point where I bring this up every time we have a future argument.


Let me encourage you, Feeling, you will be able to reach reconciliation with her. It takes time and pain, but this isn't the end for you.

When I first came hear last year many people just told me to kick her out and move on with my life - and at the time there was only one single poster on here that told me there might be a different outcome then divorce.

I really do recommend that book, "Who switched off my brain." It really helped me learn to block out mind movies although there are some days I still struggle with.

Keep your head up - ask questions - let her know she hurt you and how much - just keep in mind why you are doing and if you needed to be detailed, or rather said, she knows your pain, she gets it - what does the detail of your comments do beyond what you have already shared?

Anyway - just my thoughts and obviously not a popular one - but I don't post here to be popular. My hope is that you find my comments helpful in some way - to know that you have at least one person rooting for the full restoration of your marriage!


----------



## Feeling_bad

WalkingInLight said:


> I really do recommend that book, "Who switched off my brain." It really helped me learn to block out mind movies although there are some days I still struggle with.


Thanks for the recommendation. That sounds like something I could use.


----------



## Ikaika

We need to step back and understand that all of these infidelity situations, although the course actions may sound familiar, involve individuals and not drones... 

What I see are two people who still love each other. This does not appear as one of those situation where she has the "I love you but I am not in love with you" evolutions and then cheats. She was no doubt infatuated with the OM, possibly carrying on a EA with the possibility that this was the first physical contact. 

That is all fine and well, and maybe he needs to understand the way in which this happened. Thus he may need to hear about how she had fantasized about the OM... He may need to hear all the details, if this is the case she just needs to confess it. Putting forth feelings that she herself would like to forget, but he cannot. However, he needs to be aware of pushing it too far. So yes, I can understand the concern that at some point this could push the limits and be more abusive than helpful in a possible R. 

Again I would strongly suggest get third party help.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

The next time I see any poster classify the victim* as being guilty of abuse because they have been hurt, that post/poster is going to be reported, plain and simple.

That's not what this forum is for.It's for helping the original poster cope or giving them information about how to protect themselves or giving them a sounding board and so forth. That's the second time in roughly the last week or so where I've seen the BS's actions being spun as "abusive," on this board, which is potentially harmful, untrue and definitely unhelpful.

OP has a right to feel pain and to ask for the graphic details. That is NOT abuse and should not be spun as such. It's called wanting understanding. 

Correlating that desire to know(or,indeed, going dark in the other example I'm thining of) with abuse is SHAMEFUL.


*and let us not mince words here-that's exactly what the OP is-a victim of infidelity


----------



## Complexity

Unsure in Seattle said:


> The next time I see any poster classify the victim* as being guilty of abuse because they have been hurt, that post/poster is going to be reported, plain and simple.
> 
> That's not what this forum is for.It's for helping the original poster cope or giving them information about how to protect themselves or giving them a sounding board and so forth. That's the second time in roughly the last week or so where I've seen the BS's actions being spun as "abusive," on this board, which is potentially harmful, untrue and definitely unhelpful.
> 
> OP has a right to feel pain and to ask for the graphic details. That is NOT abuse and should not be spun as such. It's called wanting understanding.
> 
> Correlating that desire to know(or,indeed, going dark in the other example I'm thining of) with abuse is SHAMEFUL.
> 
> 
> *and let us not mince words here-that's exactly what the OP is-a victim of infidelity


This is nonsense. 

While the OP is not guilty of this at all, there's a fine line between venting your anger and purposely emotionally abusing the WS for their actions. If you the keep the WS around for the sole purpose to make them feel your pain and you don't have the capacity to reconcile, then you should move on with your life. Just because you were cheated on, it doesn't give you a ticket to indefinitely put them down for their actions.


----------



## Feeling_bad

So I spoke with a lawyer today. I haven't made a decision on D or R yet, but wanted to ask some questions. It appears that in the state I live in, I would basically get screwed. Although my wife cheated, because I can't prove there was penetration, there is virtually no legal penalties on her part.

Off the bat, I would lose custody of my daughter. This didn't surprise me based on some online research I did. Adultery is typically not a factor in how a person parents. My wife is a great mother, and my daughter prospers under her. In addition, me being in the military and prone to deployments plays heavily against me. So I lose my daughter. Because my wife has been a SAHM our whole marriage, she really doesn't have the skills to get a well paying job, so my wife and daughter would go back to her family which is a plane's ride away, therefore, seeing my little girl becomes that much more difficult. That also obviously leads to child support, which I don't mind paying, but it's still a factor.

The part that gets me, however, is that my wife would still most likely get spousal support and entitlement to a percentage of my military retirement pension. I think at least 50% of that since we've been married over 10 years. Again, this is because I can't prove penetration, and what I witnessed does not fit the legal definition of adultery.

So there you have it, my wife gets to screw around and I get punished for it. I have a couple of more legal appointments to get 2nd and 3rd opinions on this, but I think I'll get the same info. Even with this kind of news, I'm not going to stay with her just to save myself some money...I can't if it means I'm just going to resent her every day for the rest of my life. 

So now we'll see what the counselors say about my ability to cope. Deep down, I hope I'll be able to, because the bottom line is I do want to keep my family together if that's possible.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Complexity said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> While the OP is not guilty of this at all, there's a fine line between venting your anger and purposely emotionally abusing the WS for their actions. If you the keep the WS around for the sole purpose to make them feel your pain and you don't have the capacity to reconcile, then you should move on with your life. Just because you were cheated on, it doesn't give you a ticket to indefinitely put them down for their actions.


I appreciate both sides to this. Trust me, if I decide to R, it will be because I've learned a way to cope with this, and I don't intend to hold it over my wife forever. However, at this time, I do want her to realize my hurt, and I can't explain why, but I do want her to know very explicitly what I saw so she can put herself in my shoes. In addition, I want to know what she was feeling throughout the night all the way up to when I saw them in the bathroom. I want to know if at any point, did she think of me and our family, and if so, why didn't she stop herself. I need to know this to help me understand why the frick she would do this. While I'm aware alcohol lowers her inhibitions (as well as most everyone's) it still doesn't explain to me why the thought of me never crossed her mind, or if it did cross her mind, why it didn't trigger her to stop the behavior.


----------



## The bishop

Feeling_bad said:


> I appreciate both sides to this. Trust me, if I decide to R, it will be because I've learned a way to cope with this, and I don't intend to hold it over my wife forever. However, at this time, I do want her to realize my hurt, and I can't explain why, but I do want her to know very explicitly what I saw so she can put herself in my shoes. In addition, I want to know what she was feeling throughout the night all the way up to when I saw them in the bathroom. I want to know if at any point, did she think of me and our family, and if so, why didn't she stop herself. I need to know this to help me understand why the frick she would do this. While I'm aware alcohol lowers her inhibitions (as well as most everyone's) it still doesn't explain to me why the thought of me never crossed her mind, or if it did cross her mind, why it didn't trigger her to stop the behavior.


I like how you are handling this and I agree totally with how you are going forward and the answers you are seeking from your WW. She remembers the OM saying he cheated (RED FLAG). He was comfortable enough to tell his W's close friend he had affairs... wow. To me that says a lot. He was getting a comfortable vibe from your wife to say something like that to her; he KNEW she wouldn't mention it to his wife. I don't think she is going to tell you to much about what lead to it cause she see's she is close to losing you and thinks that will be the final straw. As bad as it is, and yes it is bad, don't forget the good times you all have had and don't let this be the only thought you have of your WW. Time heals all wounds


----------



## jfv

Feeling_bad said:


> Yes, I told her. She asked her husband about it, and he said he was kidding when he told my wife this just to make himself look more like a man. Not sure I get that rationale, and frankly it sounds like bullsh#t. I'm not advising the OMW in any way, just giving her a sounding board, but even the possibility that this could be her husband's 4th time, she ought to get rid of him.


The rationale is that women are attracted to guys who can get other women.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> So I spoke with a lawyer today. I haven't made a decision on D or R yet, but wanted to ask some questions. It appears that in the state I live in, I would basically get screwed. Although my wife cheated, because I can't prove there was penetration, there is virtually no legal penalties on her part.
> 
> Off the bat, I would lose custody of my daughter. This didn't surprise me based on some online research I did. Adultery is typically not a factor in how a person parents. My wife is a great mother, and my daughter prospers under her. In addition, me being in the military and prone to deployments plays heavily against me. So I lose my daughter. Because my wife has been a SAHM our whole marriage, she really doesn't have the skills to get a well paying job, so my wife and daughter would go back to her family which is a plane's ride away, therefore, seeing my little girl becomes that much more difficult. That also obviously leads to child support, which I don't mind paying, but it's still a factor.
> 
> The part that gets me, however, is that my wife would still most likely get spousal support and entitlement to a percentage of my military retirement pension. I think at least 50% of that since we've been married over 10 years. Again, this is because I can't prove penetration, and what I witnessed does not fit the legal definition of adultery.
> 
> So there you have it, my wife gets to screw around and I get punished for it. I have a couple of more legal appointments to get 2nd and 3rd opinions on this, but I think I'll get the same info. Even with this kind of news, I'm not going to stay with her just to save myself some money...I can't if it means I'm just going to resent her every day for the rest of my life.
> 
> So now we'll see what the counselors say about my ability to cope. Deep down, I hope I'll be able to, because the bottom line is I do want to keep my family together if that's possible.


So this topic is beginning to move into other forums, but just so you are aware... you can get joint custody. I would fight for joint custody in this case. Some states have a 100 mile rule (within state). What this means is that your wife or potential exWW (as long as there is no restraining orders) cannot move out of state and can only move within a 100 mile radius in state without family court approval. 

Be sure to inquire with your attorney about joint custody. I still hope for the best in your situation. It seems like you still love her and want to keep you marriage. But, I also understand your reluctance to move forward. Take care

P.S. don't assume just because you are in the military that you can't file for joint custody. You may be fighting for my rights (and I thank you) while at the same time live under rules that seem less than democratic, does not mean you have abdicated all of your rights.


----------



## warlock07

WalkingInLight said:


> Friend, detailing the hurt on an ongoing behavior is abuse. Saying, "you cheated on me and I’m hurt because you betrayed me" is normal.
> 
> Detailing what he saw her doing (your pants were down and your hand was…) on an ongoing basis is where the emotionally abusive aspect comes in.


What constitutes "Ongoing basis' ? Let us not jump too ahead of ourselves. It has been just 4 days.


----------



## jnj express

You can remember all the good times, and how good/great things were---but that was with a different woman---the woman those good times occurred with---she died---the night of the party---she died the instant she started coordinating visits to the kids room with her sex partner---alcohol was only the ingredient that allowed her to slide into this-----she knew what she wanted and she went after it----risking every thing right there in front of everyone who meant anything to her

Yes you do need to get to the WHY of all of this, and that must come before you even think of starting a R, with her----whatever it was that she allowed herself to go thru stop sign after sign, must be identified and fixed, if a new mge, is to have any chance---as to the old mge---IT IS DEAD AND BEING BURIED AS WE ALL SPEAK


----------



## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> She was completely unresponsive. She lazily pulled her pants up, struggled to get them buttoned while hobbling to our bed. She passed out after a short verbal outburst from me. She was completely out of her mind.
> 
> *The next morning when she woke up, she began her profuse apologies and crying*.


To others with more experience: does this say to you that she was not "blackout drunk" the night before if she could remember what she had done and start apologizing, I guess right away?


----------



## alte Dame

Malaise said:


> To others with more experience: does this say to you that she was not "blackout drunk" the night before if she could remember what she had done and start apologizing, I guess right away?


'Blackout' can be total, i.e., no memory at all past a certain point of intoxication, or partial, with cringe-worthy memories that you're not at all sure of. You can sort of remember something, but not be certain that it's a real memory.


----------



## alte Dame

OP's description makes her sound extremely drunk.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm curious did she recall the incident on her own when she woke up or did you have to tell her?


----------



## Acabado

I've wake up with the hangover until I started remembering the night before and began crying like a toddler too many times to count.
More than decade sober and clean. And counting.


----------



## Acabado

Duplicate


----------



## Remains

Having just read most of your thread I would like to offer my opinion. Firstly though, all that talk at the beginning about her being a dirty low down cheater, having an EA, spying on her further, get rid of her, that she has been at it for ages with him/a.n.other etc just seem way out there. Some it seems paint all with the same brush of their own experience. There is no grey. Only black and white. No in between. No circumstance or anything to consider. This I don't believe is helpful to you getting over it and moving forward.

And BTW it took about 3 months for the agonising pain to subside a bit. And it took about 6 months maybe to accept what happened. The year point was a big turning point. I don't know how similar the time frame is to others like you who have an extremely remorseful spouse who will help you get over it. They, the spouse, have the key to our recovery. Mine was not helpful. I am now indifferent to him...kind of....or maybe I just kid myself. I have to make myself be indifferent. That is what he forces me into feeling if I want to be with him. Which I don't mostly. But I can't get rid...just yet. Like a drug. But he is extremely loving. Gives me transparency in his phone/email etc, so he is a bit helpful.

Anyway....
She was so drunk she didn't even register you knocking on the door, you finding them. She then passed out.
You have searched for anything else. You found nothing.
She is shattered by this and has offered anything necessary to fix it. She says she won't drink ever again.

All she is offering and showing shows that she is truly sorry and it seems this was a one off incident that she will make efforts to ensure never go anywhere near happening again. It may well take a very long time for her to get over this too. I know you say you would never do anything like this no matter how drunk, but put yourself in that situation where she caught you in a drunken fumble that u were not even aware you were doing. Just try. And how devastated you would feel following that. Devastated for you, and for her. How would you feel about yourself after doing something so dispicable, and for her to see u doing it? I am not trying to minimise what she did, just trying to help you understand. I think once it can be understood, no matter how awful, it can then be accepted, and then forgiven....at least to some degree.

The scenario was completely condusive to naughty stuff going on. Copious amounts of alcohol, adult games. You say she gets flirty and horny when drunk. So, the OM likes this. People do. To divert a moment, some men will see this as someone who is receptive to a come on...or maybe some men just come on regardless. I am the same as your wife when drunk, I flirt with men, women, or at least I have done when younger. Or not so much flirt, just very friendly, touchy feely, loving to my friends, I love a good time, have fun, have a laugh, and 'flirt'. Nothing meant by it, but that is how I was. And I guess I still am under certain circumstance. Men have come on to me. And sometimes, one can be so drunk, and they can press all the right buttons, they know what to say, what to do, to get what they want. And if you are receptive to it, or are blindsided by it, don't see it coming, you can succumb. Because of the complete drunkenness. I have succumbed when I would never normally. Yes I have been single, and once when I had a boyfriend, I was 17 at the time. But I can see how easy it is to succumb when so drunk and especially with a sexually charged atmosphere. Very easy. Which is why it is important to avoid those situations. But I can see how your situation was just those circumstances that would produce undesirable outcomes. And that they did. The alcohol, the naughty games causing a sexually charged atmosphere, a man who cheats (is he a charmer?) this is a co*ktail of all kinds of possibilities given the right circumstances. Or the wrong ones. 

I would suggest that he probably liked her fun and outgoing nature, is she the life and soul of a party? Men/people like that. He probably took some time to seduce her (over the course of the evening. Looking at her. Complimenting her on their trips out of the room. Saying sexually charged things to her. Getting her wound up sexually along with the adult game.) And then when she was totally hammered to a point of no return, she then didn't have the will or know how or the where with all to stop herself. Was so drunk she could not. He probably came on to her in a big way. Why would he say he had cheated before on his wife if she was just happily falling into 'sex' with him? I would imagine it went more along the line of her telling him to stop it. To stop trying it on. 'Have you done this before?' would be my next statement. Or asking him due to shock and surprise that he is trying it on. And possibly not because she was just falling into his arms.

She seems genuine. You love her. You both love your daughter. Stick it out and start rebuilding. And get the boundaries in place for a worry free continuation of the marriage.

Finally, I believe EVERYONE is capable of pretty much anything given the right circumstances. Everyone. Without exception. It is just that not everyone has been in every situation. And so they believe they know what they would do just by imagining. And as we all know, we can behave very differently when it really happens. I fully believe she was just totally blindsided, and more importantly so very drunk that I don't think she can be held responsible. And that issue is resolved. Never to drink again. So, it is time to know what you would both do to ensure that this road is not stepped on again, never mind getting right to the end of it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> So I spoke with a lawyer today. I haven't made a decision on D or R yet, but wanted to ask some questions. It appears that in the state I live in, I would basically get screwed. Although my wife cheated, because I can't prove there was penetration, there is virtually no legal penalties on her part.
> 
> Off the bat, I would lose custody of my daughter. This didn't surprise me based on some online research I did. Adultery is typically not a factor in how a person parents. My wife is a great mother, and my daughter prospers under her. In addition, me being in the military and prone to deployments plays heavily against me. So I lose my daughter. Because my wife has been a SAHM our whole marriage, she really doesn't have the skills to get a well paying job, so my wife and daughter would go back to her family which is a plane's ride away, therefore, seeing my little girl becomes that much more difficult. That also obviously leads to child support, which I don't mind paying, but it's still a factor.
> 
> The part that gets me, however, is that my wife would still most likely get spousal support and entitlement to a percentage of my military retirement pension. I think at least 50% of that since we've been married over 10 years. Again, this is because I can't prove penetration, and what I witnessed does not fit the legal definition of adultery.
> 
> So there you have it, my wife gets to screw around and I get punished for it. I have a couple of more legal appointments to get 2nd and 3rd opinions on this, but I think I'll get the same info. Even with this kind of news, I'm not going to stay with her just to save myself some money...I can't if it means I'm just going to resent her every day for the rest of my life.
> 
> So now we'll see what the counselors say about my ability to cope. Deep down, I hope I'll be able to, because the bottom line is I do want to keep my family together if that's possible.


If you reconsile can a post nup help with this? i.e. expand this beyond penetration.


----------



## Tony55

Something that seems to be overlooked here, who originally suggested the adult board game? Did someone bring it, or was it yours? If it was yours when did you acquire it and did you get it or did she?

I know drunk bathroom perv was not playing, but that also makes me wonder, why did he not play? What was his reason? 

There are clues to this whole thing that might be ignored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Feeling_bad

Remains said:


> Having just read most of your thread I would like to offer my opinion. Firstly though, all that talk at the beginning about her being a dirty low down cheater, having an EA, spying on her further, get rid of her, that she has been at it for ages with him/a.n.other etc just seem way out there. Some it seems paint all with the same brush of their own experience. There is no grey. Only black and white. No in between. No circumstance or anything to consider. This I don't believe is helpful to you getting over it and moving forward.
> 
> And BTW it took about 3 months for the agonising pain to subside a bit. And it took about 6 months maybe to accept what happened. The year point was a big turning point. I don't know how similar the time frame is to others like you who have an extremely remorseful spouse who will help you get over it. They, the spouse, have the key to our recovery. Mine was not helpful. I am now indifferent to him...kind of....or maybe I just kid myself. I have to make myself be indifferent. That is what he forces me into feeling if I want to be with him. Which I don't mostly. But I can't get rid...just yet. Like a drug. But he is extremely loving. Gives me transparency in his phone/email etc, so he is a bit helpful.
> 
> Anyway....
> She was so drunk she didn't even register you knocking on the door, you finding them. She then passed out.
> You have searched for anything else. You found nothing.
> She is shattered by this and has offered anything necessary to fix it. She says she won't drink ever again.
> 
> All she is offering and showing shows that she is truly sorry and it seems this was a one off incident that she will make efforts to ensure never go anywhere near happening again. It may well take a very long time for her to get over this too. I know you say you would never do anything like this no matter how drunk, but put yourself in that situation where she caught you in a drunken fumble that u were not even aware you were doing. Just try. And how devastated you would feel following that. Devastated for you, and for her. How would you feel about yourself after doing something so dispicable, and for her to see u doing it? I am not trying to minimise what she did, just trying to help you understand. I think once it can be understood, no matter how awful, it can then be accepted, and then forgiven....at least to some degree.
> 
> The scenario was completely condusive to naughty stuff going on. Copious amounts of alcohol, adult games. You say she gets flirty and horny when drunk. So, the OM likes this. People do. To divert a moment, some men will see this as someone who is receptive to a come on...or maybe some men just come on regardless. I am the same as your wife when drunk, I flirt with men, women, or at least I have done when younger. Or not so much flirt, just very friendly, touchy feely, loving to my friends, I love a good time, have fun, have a laugh, and 'flirt'. Nothing meant by it, but that is how I was. And I guess I still am under certain circumstance. Men have come on to me. And sometimes, one can be so drunk, and they can press all the right buttons, they know what to say, what to do, to get what they want. And if you are receptive to it, or are blindsided by it, don't see it coming, you can succumb. Because of the complete drunkenness. I have succumbed when I would never normally. Yes I have been single, and once when I had a boyfriend, I was 17 at the time. But I can see how easy it is to succumb when so drunk and especially with a sexually charged atmosphere. Very easy. Which is why it is important to avoid those situations. But I can see how your situation was just those circumstances that would produce undesirable outcomes. And that they did. The alcohol, the naughty games causing a sexually charged atmosphere, a man who cheats (is he a charmer?) this is a co*ktail of all kinds of possibilities given the right circumstances. Or the wrong ones.
> 
> I would suggest that he probably liked her fun and outgoing nature, is she the life and soul of a party? Men/people like that. He probably took some time to seduce her (over the course of the evening. Looking at her. Complimenting her on their trips out of the room. Saying sexually charged things to her. Getting her wound up sexually along with the adult game.) And then when she was totally hammered to a point of no return, she then didn't have the will or know how or the where with all to stop herself. Was so drunk she could not. He probably came on to her in a big way. Why would he say he had cheated before on his wife if she was just happily falling into 'sex' with him? I would imagine it went more along the line of her telling him to stop it. To stop trying it on. 'Have you done this before?' would be my next statement. Or asking him due to shock and surprise that he is trying it on. And possibly not because she was just falling into his arms.
> 
> She seems genuine. You love her. You both love your daughter. Stick it out and start rebuilding. And get the boundaries in place for a worry free continuation of the marriage.
> 
> Finally, I believe EVERYONE is capable of pretty much anything given the right circumstances. Everyone. Without exception. It is just that not everyone has been in every situation. And so they believe they know what they would do just by imagining. And as we all know, we can behave very differently when it really happens. I fully believe she was just totally blindsided, and more importantly so very drunk that I don't think she can be held responsible. And that issue is resolved. Never to drink again. So, it is time to know what you would both do to ensure that this road is not stepped on again, never mind getting right to the end of it.


Remains, thanks for the message. It helps a bit, but it's still beyond comprehension for me that she went as far as she did. It's just going to take me time to be able to comprehend and/or forgive.

As for the adult themed games everyone keeps speaking of. The game we played is called "The Game of Things". While it's adult themed, it's really not a sexually charged game. Take some time to Google it. You might find it sounds like fun and order it for your next get together.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Tony55 said:


> Something that seems to be overlooked here, who originally suggested the adult board game? Did someone bring it, or was it yours? If it was yours when did you acquire it and did you get it or did she?
> 
> I know drunk bathroom perv was not playing, but that also makes me wonder, why did he not play? What was his reason?
> 
> There are clues to this whole thing that might be ignored.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tony55, see my previous post. It was our game. It's called "The Game of Things". Google it sometime. It's actually pretty innocent, in my opinion.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Welcome to our site | Things


----------



## joe kidd

Doing any better man?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

One big issue is that you're military. How will you ever trust her the nex time you deploy?


----------



## Feeling_bad

joe kidd said:


> Doing any better man?


Not really...just trying to keep my mind busy while I await my next counseling appt. My wife and I sit in separate rooms. Occasionally she comes to me to apologize, occasionally I go to her to probe her for more information to see if she's still holding back any info from Friday night. My wife has always said that I lacked emotion, and I've definitely had a few cries over this, so that crushes my wife more when she sees me break down.


----------



## Feeling_bad

WorkingOnMe said:


> One big issue is that you're military. How will you ever trust her the nex time you deploy?


I have no idea :scratchhead:

I'm sure I'll be real productive at my next deployment.


----------



## SoxFan

Feeling Bad: Been following this thread from the beginning and I'm really sorry for all you are going through. I just need to ask, and if you have already went through this then I apologize, but did you have a conversation with your wife about the events that lead up to you finding them in the bathroom? What did she say went on during those trips to check on the kids? Was he coming on to her a little more each time..... what stoked the fire? I know she was totally wasted by the time the action was happening in the bathroom but she presumably had more of her senses earlier in the evening during their trips together out of the room. And in my opinion if she did have more of her senses earlier and he was pulling this BS on her she could have put a stop to it. I know she's being extremely remorseful now but has she ever given you an explanation as to what was it that evening that built up in her to the point of a drunken infidelity?


----------



## Feeling_bad

SoxFan said:


> Feeling Bad: Been following this thread from the beginning and I'm really sorry for all you are going through. I just need to ask, and if you have already went through this then I apologize, but did you have a conversation with your wife about the events that lead up to you finding them in the bathroom? What did she say went on during those trips to check on the kids? Was he coming on to her a little more each time..... what stoked the fire? I know she was totally wasted by the time the action was happening in the bathroom but she presumably had more of her senses earlier in the evening during their trips together out of the room. And in my opinion if she did have more of her senses earlier and he was pulling this BS on her she could have put a stop to it. I know she's being extremely remorseful now but has she ever given you an explanation as to what was it that evening that built up in her to the point of a drunken infidelity?


SoxFan, you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I've been probing from her all day. She swears there was nothing she recalls of a sexual nature. No kisses, rubbing, or groping...nothing. She tells me she recalls being pulled into the bathroom, and things began. She admits she was flirty with him, she admits there were signs, and she realizes she should have stayed away from him. She recalls never feeling concerned because it was her friend's husband, so she never thought anything would escalate. Then boom, she's in the bathroom making out with the guy, on her way to going the distance. It doesn't add up to me, and frankly it's pissing me off that she won't tell me anything. I realize there had to be something steaming up throughout the night to get them to that point, but I'm not getting the answers. Neither is the OMW.


----------



## joe kidd

Feeling_bad said:


> Not really...just trying to keep my mind busy while I await my next counseling appt. My wife and I sit in separate rooms. Occasionally she comes to me to apologize, occasionally I go to her to probe her for more information to see if she's still holding back any info from Friday night. My wife has always said that I lacked emotion, and I've definitely had a few cries over this, so that crushes my wife more when she sees me break down.


I heard the same. She wasn't aware that such a "robotic" man could break down like that. All I can say is that the pain will dull. Wish you the best .


----------



## SoxFan

Feeling_bad said:


> SoxFan, you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I've been probing from her all day. She swears there was nothing she recalls of a sexual nature. No kisses, rubbing, or groping...nothing. She tells me she recalls being pulled into the bathroom, and things began. She admits she was flirty with him, she admits there were signs, and she realizes she should have stayed away from him. She recalls never feeling concerned because it was her friend's husband, so she never thought anything would escalate. Then boom, she's in the bathroom making out with the guy, on her way to going the distance. It doesn't add up to me, and frankly it's pissing me off that she won't tell me anything. I realize there had to be something steaming up throughout the night to get them to that point, but I'm not getting the answers. Neither is the OMW.


Flirty with him and signs that night?


----------



## Feeling_bad

yes


----------



## SoxFan

Feeling_bad said:


> yes


so they flirt, there are signs (did she explain what these signs were), then with both of them in a drunken stupor he pulls her into the bathroom and they go at it until you come along........I agree Fb it don't add up. I have trouble wrapping my brain around that so I can imagine how you feel trying to make sense of it. She's got to be able to give you more than that.


----------



## Ikaika

Feeling_bad said:


> Not really...just trying to keep my mind busy while I await my next counseling appt. My wife and I sit in separate rooms. Occasionally she comes to me to apologize, occasionally I go to her to probe her for more information to see if she's still holding back any info from Friday night. My wife has always said that I lacked emotion, and I've definitely had a few cries over this, so that crushes my wife more when she sees me break down.


Ok... here is a *major issue, major*... she still holds back when you probe. I understand she is ashamed and wants to forget and hopes you forget. It is important that she understand she has to release this weight. Tell, her only then can you begin the road back. It is not going to change anything, but it will shed light where there is still darkness. This is part of the laying everything on the table. 

Psychologist tell the same thing to those suffering from PTSD, they have to lay it on the table to heal. It's ugly, but it has to be done.


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## CH

Polygraph?

I know alot have said how inaccurate it can be. But if she has nothing to hide at all and is willing to do anything to prove it to you then it's a no brainer that she would jump at the opportunity.

If she balks, starts throwing around that you don't trust her (at this point why should you) and then starts blaming you or the alcohol for this happening then you've got a problem.

Just another option you could go with if things get to an impasse.


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## Feeling_bad

cheatinghubby said:


> Polygraph?
> 
> I know alot have said how inaccurate it can be. But if she has nothing to hide at all and is willing to do anything to prove it to you then it's a no brainer that she would jump at the opportunity.
> 
> If she balks, starts throwing around that you don't trust her (at this point why should you) and then starts blaming you or the alcohol for this happening then you've got a problem.
> 
> Just another option you could go with if things get to an impasse.


There was a kiss before the bathroom incident. I thought I shared that with you all, but can't find it anywhere in my posts. She kept it from me that night, and did not avoid the OM after that. She did tell me about it Saturday...sorry I never shared that. I have spent a lot of time asking her why she didn't tell me about this kiss, or fearing I'd be angry, why she didn't avoid the OM the rest of the night...especially since she wasn't as drunk as she was in the bathroom. This is actually more disappointing to me than what I saw in the bathroom because she had more capacity to do something about stopping it before it got where it did, but she didn't. It's a slap in my face to our marriage. I broach that subject with her often, and she knows she failed to act. She acknowledges she was flattered by the kiss, so yes, I believe there was a curiosity about more, especially as the night progressed, and the booze kept flowing. She cries about the fact she didn't act, and seems remorseful, but that ones a tougher pill to swallow. 

I'm sure this will bring a flood of new remarks...


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## Malaise

Brother, the hits just keep on coming don't they.

Best wishes to you


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Malaise said:


> Brother, the hits just keep on coming don't they.
> 
> Best wishes to you


Trickle truth, it MAY just be the tip of the iceberg. I hope this is not the case!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feeling_bad

Yep, I posted about that kiss in a private message to someone, that's why I thought it was to the group. So this is not new information to me...my wife did admit this with everything else on Saturday. The kiss occurred approximately 1-2 hrs before the bathroom. So drunk yes, but not as much, and in my opinion, not enough to be able to tell this guy to back off or to easily just avoid him the rest of the night.

I think you would all agree this is a huge smack in my face. A kiss is kind of an intimate gesture, and when it's with someone other than your spouse, something probably needs to be done about it (sarcasm). If my wife wanted to avoid a fight with me, she could have just avoided this guy after that, but she kept flirting and hanging around this clown.


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## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> There was a kiss before the bathroom incident. I thought I shared that with you all, but can't find it anywhere in my posts. She kept it from me that night, and did not avoid the OM after that. She did tell me about it Saturday...sorry I never shared that. *I have spent a lot of time asking her why she didn't tell me about this kiss, or fearing I'd be angry, why she didn't avoid the OM the rest of the night...especially since she wasn't as drunk as she was in the bathroom. This is actually more disappointing to me than what I saw in the bathroom because she had more capacity to do something about stopping it before it got where it did, but she didn't*. It's a slap in my face to our marriage. I broach that subject with her often, and she knows she failed to act. She acknowledges she was flattered by the kiss, so yes, I believe there was a curiosity about more, especially as the night progressed, and the booze kept flowing. She cries about the fact she didn't act, and seems remorseful, but that ones a tougher pill to swallow.
> 
> I'm sure this will bring a flood of new remarks...


Besides what else happened, this would make me even a little crazier


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## Feeling_bad

Malaise said:


> Besides what else happened, this would make me even a little crazier


It does...I actually took her in the bathroom tonight, and made her recap the events of the bathroom. She knew a few details, but I can tell wasn't fully aware of everything. In fact, she thought she was standing in a different place than where she was actually standing when I opened the door on them. So that tells me she was drunk out of her mind.

After doing that, I realized I was more pi$$ed that she could have stopped all this before it got to the bathroom earlier had she avoided this guy. She said the earlier kiss was unwanted, but even if it was, she obviously enjoyed it, and admitted to being flattered by it. She says she wasn't looking to go any further with him, but that doesn't explain why she kept hanging out with him away from the rest of us. Anyway, another reason I don't know if I could forgive.


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## The bishop

I get your point Remains, and i hope the OP and his WW can move on and get closure. But there was plenty of red flags before she was "out of her mind drunk". I think that is what the OP is looking for and will certainly help him heal and get through this. She should of known once he mentioned "cheating" that (friends husband or not) that he had other intentions and it wasn't just flirting. That is just one of the flags, a big one, but there was more. Also, they both were drunk enough to do the unthinkable but sane enough just minutes before to leave the room and check on the kids. So the kids were on their drunken mind... Or did they leave to see what could happen next? If your that drunk can you think about your children one minute and the next have a **** in you hand? These are all question I would and need answered before I could even consider R.


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## Complexity

Feeling_bad said:


> Yep, I posted about that kiss in a private message to someone, that's why I thought it was to the group. So this is not new information to me...my wife did admit this with everything else on Saturday. The kiss occurred approximately 1-2 hrs before the bathroom. So drunk yes, but not as much, and in my opinion, not enough to be able to tell this guy to back off or to easily just avoid him the rest of the night.
> 
> I think you would all agree this is a huge smack in my face. A kiss is kind of an intimate gesture, and when it's with someone other than your spouse, something probably needs to be done about it (sarcasm). If my wife wanted to avoid a fight with me, she could have just avoided this guy after that, but she kept flirting and hanging around this clown.


It does make your situation a little more complicated, however I don't look at it as a pivotal moment. The kiss itself must've been preceded with aggressive flirtation. That in itself should've been the big stop sign for her. Alcohol aside, she let her guard down big time. Subconsciously she should've avoided the guy like you said and cut back on the booze. I don't know if it's buzz that made her think irrationally or whether her inhibitions flew out of the window that night. Nevertheless, I think the main issue you should discuss is why she reciprocated his flirtation to go beyond mere "fun" (if you can call it that) because that's the root of the problem.


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## fyrefox

I've been following the thread. I'm not even married, but I think your name sums up how I would feel too: feeling bad and feeling sad. I think the world of my SO and I keep telling myself that she would never do something like this to me. But in the back of my mind, especially after reading stories like these, the idea that she is probably capable of cheating scares the hell out of me. I can only imagine how you feel. If the person I trust the most in my life broke that trust and I was there to witness it first hand, it would just make me wilt. I would be mad, but I would be more sad that it happened. I would be sad that this one of the best things in my life is all of a sudden tarnished and there's no easy way to fix it. I don't know if things could be the same for you for a long time. You had a great relationship and it was suddenly shattered, and now you are forced to try to build it again, but you're also too sad/upset to do it. I hope you spend some time with friends/family to help get your mind off of what happened, even if it's an hour a day. At the same time, I think talking to your wife about how things happen is important as she needs to understand what lead up to it and how really bad you must feel.

From what I read, i'd predict you're going to attempt reconciliation. It's going to be tough, but I wish you the best and I hope that feeling that you have inside of you in the pit of your stomach slowly dissipates as you build your relationship once again.


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## Feeling_bad

Ok, so my wife just came in, looked me dead in the eyes while crying and told me that if I give her another chance, she will be a changed woman and will do anything in this world I ask for. She said she has been petrified over the last 4 days that I would leave her, and is sickened by her behavior and for putting me through this pain. She feels like the isolation over the last 4 days has given her a glimpse of life without me, and it scares her. She said she wants to be there to help me through this and will go to any counseling I ask. She's nearly finished reading "Not Just Friends" and asked if there were any other books I wanted her to read.

I mean she's saying all the right things, and showing tons of remorse. But even so, the thoughts are still fresh in my head, and the thoughtlessness of her actions just eats at me. Looking forward to what the counselor has to say.


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## The bishop

I agree the kiss is really bad... It throws the to drunk claim out the window. Kissed him where? She did that with you and her friend in the same house. I am so sorry... I was really hoping it was worse. I feel for you, but it probably good you caught them, it could of escalated into a full blown affair.


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## Feeling_bad

The bishop said:


> I agree the kiss is really bad... It throws the to drunk claim out the window. Kissed him where? She did that with you and her friend in the same house. I am so sorry... I was really hoping it was worse. I feel for you, but it probably good you caught them, it could of escalated into a full blown affair.


The kiss was actually outside in my driveway when she joined him for a smoke. It's not very unusual for her to do that even though she really doesn't smoke. Oftentimes, she joins our smoker friends to steal a drag. She knows I don't care for it when she smokes, so she gets sneaky about it. I asked her where exactly in my driveway the kiss happened, and it was in a spot fully exposed to the road. This has me questioning her judgement because anyone could have seen this kiss. Especially in a military housing community, it certainly could have raised eyebrows.


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## The bishop

I think you should take your time with what you want to do.... As vivid as that image of them are and the news of them kissing before is to much for anyone to come to a rational decision. I admire how you are handling this.


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## Feeling_bad

Thanks...it's easy to say if someone cheats on you, you'll just throw them out. But when there's 12 good years behind it, it becomes easier said then done.


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Yep, I posted about that kiss in a private message to someone, that's why I thought it was to the group. So this is not new information to me...my wife did admit this with everything else on Saturday. *The kiss occurred approximately 1-2 hrs before the bathroom.* So drunk yes, but not as much, and in my opinion, not enough to be able to tell this guy to back off or to easily just avoid him the rest of the night.
> 
> I think you would all agree this is a huge smack in my face. *A kiss is kind of an intimate gesture,* and when it's with someone other than your spouse, something probably needs to be done about it (sarcasm). If my wife wanted to avoid a fight with me, she could have just avoided this guy after that, but she kept flirting and hanging around this clown.


A kiss is indeed very intimate. The kiss was all he needed. It was the yes. A kiss is a jump into a PA. It really is. Its physically and intimate. It says you can have me, just keep pushing ... or grabbing.

1-2 hours before. Whoa. 

So how many times had he even met your wife? There was the party two weeks ago. So how many hours had he been in proximity with her before the kiss?

A kiss of this type is a huge leap of infidelity in itself. It is just a pull into an isolated space away from what you found.

But she was impressed with him being a cheater. Wow. What does this say?


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## The bishop

The next question I would ask is when in the night the kiss took place? Were they alone multiple times after? Cause if so, you can be certain more kissing and possible more happened before the final incident. You might catch her guard down and get the full story if that is the case. I am afraid there is more. Be strong


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## Entropy3000

The bishop said:


> The next question I would ask is when in the night the kiss took place? Were they alone multiple times after? Cause if so, you can be certain more kissing and possible more happened before the final incident. You might catch her guard down and get the full story if that is the case. I am afraid there is more. Be strong


Yeah there had to be more touching if not kissing. The trickle truth is starting. Hopefully it does not have far to go. 

But she seems very free with doing this out in the open.


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## The bishop

If after the kiss the "checking on the kids" became more frequent you will know their real intentions were to sneak away for more. Hard questions to ask or get answers from.


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## The bishop

I am sorry I keep asking and making assumptions, just these thoughts keep poping in my head of what I would be asking/ questioning. I think they were playing their own game that night, and it kept escalating as the night went on. A pretty sinister game add in alcohol and each time getting away with a little bit more. You end up right were you caught them.


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## Entropy3000

I think he gets this. He is still trying to process all of it.


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## Feeling_bad

Entropy3000 said:


> A kiss is indeed very intimate. The kiss was all he needed. It was the yes. A kiss is a jump into a PA. It really is. Its physically and intimate. It says you can have me, just keep pushing ... or grabbing.
> 
> 1-2 hours before. Whoa.
> 
> So how many times had he even met your wife? There was the party two weeks ago. So how many hours had he been in proximity with her before the kiss?
> 
> A kiss of this type is a huge leap of infidelity in itself. It is just a pull into an isolated space away from what you found.
> 
> But she was impressed with him being a cheater. Wow. What does this say?


I like your last question...I actually just posed it to my wife. Maybe I should go out and cheat, and she'll be more impressed by me . Anyway, she didn't have a good response to the question.

As for # of times my wife and OM met, there were a few, but aside from the time 2+ weeks ago, I had always been with her. In speaking with the OMW over the instance 2+ weeks ago, my wife and OM were never alone together. Here's a theory I'm working in my mind. One of the times we all hung out together, we played a game of "I never". If you don't know what it is, that is a rather sexually charged game. During the game, my wife brought up some of the kinky things done in the past. My wife was certainly kinkier then the OM's wife. This may have got the OM's thoughts going. Then 2 weeks ago, my wife gets drunk and flirty a bit with him, and a lot with the other ladies there. This enhances the OM's thoughts. Then this past Friday night, my wife and the OM get drunk, and he makes a move via the first kiss. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he initiated the move given his history as a cheater. My wife, admittedly flattered by the kiss, doesn't do anything to stop it. Not certain if she didn't think it would go any further, given the OM was her friend's husband, or she was worked up by that kiss, and was curious where that could lead (I shutter to think this was the case). Anyway, the night goes on, the drinks continue, and it gets to where we finish off in the bathroom. Could this be plausible?


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## The bishop

Feeling_bad said:


> I like your last question...I actually just posed it to my wife. Maybe I should go out and cheat, and she'll be more impressed by me . Anyway, she didn't have a good response to the question.
> 
> As for # of times my wife and OM met, there were a few, but aside from the time 2+ weeks ago, I had always been with her. In speaking with the OMW over the instance 2+ weeks ago, my wife and OM were never alone together. Here's a theory I'm working in my mind. One of the times we all hung out together, we played a game of "I never". If you don't know what it is, that is a rather sexually charged game. During the game, my wife brought up some of the kinky things done in the past. My wife was certainly kinkier then the OM's wife. This may have got the OM's thoughts going. Then 2 weeks ago, my wife gets drunk and flirty a bit with him, and a lot with the other ladies there. This enhances the OM's thoughts. Then this past Friday night, my wife and the OM get drunk, and he makes a move via the first kiss. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he initiated the move given his history as a cheater. My wife, admittedly flattered by the kiss, doesn't do anything to stop it. Not certain if she didn't think it would go any further, given the OM was her friend's husband, or she was worked up by that kiss, and was curious where that could lead (I shutter to think this was the case). Anyway, the night goes on, the drinks continue, and it gets to where we finish off in the bathroom. Could this be plausible?


I think it could be. The OM was definetly the one who initiated this, but she was giving signals for him to have the balls, being she is wife's CLOSE friend and at your house with both of you there. Damn ballsy by both of them and more so as the night went on.


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## Ansley

My two cents. Your wife and OM were terribly wrong. People do drunk what they want to do sober. They just realize there are consequences when they are sober. When drinking things like Dui's and getting caught cheating dont seem to register. Something built up to this. Everyone in the house except the kids was wrong. A night with adult board game and drinks while the kids are shut up in a room. Im sure the kids have decent hearing. Even at a young age they can absorb what is going on. 

Alcoholism isnt defined by how much you drink. Its the consequences. This was huge and sounds like she has gotten out of hand before. Its a progressive disease. For your kids sake she needs to goto an AA meeting.


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## johnnycomelately

Ansley said:


> A night with adult board game and drinks while the kids are shut up in a room. Im sure the kids have decent hearing. Even at a young age they can absorb what is going on.
> 
> Alcoholism isnt defined by how much you drink. Its the consequences. This was huge and sounds like she has gotten out of hand before. Its a progressive disease. For your kids sake she needs to goto an AA meeting.


Alcoholism is defined by a dependence on alcohol, not the consequences of one person's behaviour that involved alcohol. Suggesting that anyone goes to an AA meeting because of the behaviour of one person on one night is silly and belittles the struggle of true alcoholics. 

Why can't we focus on helping this guy instead of getting judgmental about a bit of drinking?


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## Hicks

Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, so my wife just came in, looked me dead in the eyes while crying and told me that if I give her another chance, she will be a changed woman and will do anything in this world I ask for. She said she has been petrified over the last 4 days that I would leave her, and is sickened by her behavior and for putting me through this pain. She feels like the isolation over the last 4 days has given her a glimpse of life without me, and it scares her. She said she wants to be there to help me through this and will go to any counseling I ask. She's nearly finished reading "Not Just Friends" and asked if there were any other books I wanted her to read.
> 
> I mean she's saying all the right things, and showing tons of remorse. But even so, the thoughts are still fresh in my head, and the thoughtlessness of her actions just eats at me. Looking forward to what the counselor has to say.


Feeling Bad,
Your wife cheated on you. She is telling you what happened. She got attracted to him when she met him. He then pursued her at your party in a manly way and she allowed his affections. She went with it. She agreed to have sex with him. She wanted to have sex with him. You know all this.

Every man's wife in the world could cheat on him given the right circumstances. Every person is suseceptible to seduction.

You should not throw your marriage away. Your wife is remorseful. She wants you. She regrets what she did. This is what it takes to rebuild a marriage and rebuild trust.

What is the harm of taking her up on her offer, putting the protections in your marriage which greatly reduce the possibility that this will ever happen again, and then experiencing it for yourself to see if this works for you?

Recover your marriage, take it day by day. You can always change your mind if it's not working exactly as you want it to.

But yes, you and she will always have to take precautions knowing that she is susceptible to being seduced.


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## jnj express

Bottom line is your wife, knew, this guy wanted her, and she played along, continued flirting, and allowed him to come with her, when checking on the kids---She could have stopped that, she knew she could have stopped that, and she wasn't that drunk, she didn't---so question again is what was she looking to happen, what did she want to happen?

But even before all of that, why in her mind did she find it necessary to go outside TO him, cuz she wanted to play around, play like she is a smoker, and then allow all this to happen

She, as has been said was hot for the attention, but she at the time of the kiss, wasn't that drunk, and she sure as he*l knew she was your wife, and her daughters mother, and she sure as he*l knew the consequences of cheating, on top of all of that, she kisses him out in the street, and flirts, attempts to have sex with him with you right there in your own home, you cannot blame the alcohol for any of that---it only greased the skids, what she wanted was already in her mind---WHAT WAS SHE LOOKING FOR?

Why didn't she stop the drinking, and stop the messing around, she knew she was on a road that could only lead to nuclear winter----why is it that she didn't care, why is it that she wouldn't stop

as has been said---this is your life, and your ballgame, it matters not what she says, what she says she will do----you have already seen what she is capable of doing, and what type of judgement she has----she flirts, she goes out and play's smoker, and flirts with the guys, she drinks to excess---WHAT IS SHE TRYING TO PROVE, WHY WAS IT SHE NEEDED TO DO THOSE THINGS

If you take her back , once again, do not just let her back into her cushy lifestyle that she had before all of this, her life may not be the greatest compared to others, none of our lives are, we all wish for things, that may not be possible---but bottom line, her life is probably pretty good, and she has the best of what is available to her---so the question again is why does a 37 yr old woman need to do what she did

If you decide to take her back---you know that your boundaries for her must be no alcohol, at all, ever again, whether she likes it or not, no going out with the guys and taking drags on cigarettes---NO GUYS AT ALL----if she is in a situation where other men are present, that would put her in harms way, she leaves then and there, obviously no flirting----no GNO----she is an open book to you with her phone, and computer, if you do go to parties with her she stays with you at all times------this all may seem like you are putting her in jail---but since she can't be trusted, and she isn't able to control herself, then this is her penance---if she doesn't like it--she is free to leave----make sure you do have a POST--NUP in place with a duress clause

For the time being no more parties for her, let her get some hobbies, or start a home based business, or really get involved in her daughters activities, school etc---she can become a teachers aid, and volunteer her time---she obviously has too much time on her hands

This is all for the future---if you decide to stay with her---right now, she needs to still be out on that edge of not knowing---she needs to know once and for all what her little games have brought her, and she needs to know, life won't be pretty without you---she needs to know FOR SURE---there are no more YOU'S out there, especially at her age---what's out there are POS, like this guy that tried to get her to spread her legs, who has already along with her, destroyed the lives of 2 families, for like it or not---your life will never be the same, life for her if you D, her will not be pretty.

I can only say---I hope it all works out for you, but do not stay if it means living in misery, you only get one try at life on this planet, and it is spose to be a happy trip, so if staying with your so called wife, gives you a life of misery, it just may not be worth staying, no matter what price you have to pay, to set yourself free.


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## RWB

FB,

What your wife did was just plain wrong... agreed. And yes it does change your marriage forever and screws with your head. 

BUT... (always the but)

Your issue is not with the OM... it solely lies with your wife. It appears this is an isolated, alcohol induced, transgression. You do need to verify the validity of this conclusion. If so, and you can forgive her... and your wife is truly remorseful and is willing to back it up... Consider yourself a very lucky man.

Your marriage has been given a real "shot over the bow". You and her now know what the real endgame of affairs. If you forgive and R, she needs to know that this is it. The slightest betrayal, physical or not mean D. There are no 2nd... 3rd chances.


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## warlock07

So, do you actually know what happened in the bathroom? before you opened the door? She kissed the other guy in your driveway. Then hooked up with him while you are 2 rooms away. Not sure if this was a one time thing(with the OM or not)

How convinced are you that you got the whole truth? 




Feeling_bad said:


> Ok, so my wife just came in, looked me dead in the eyes while crying and told me that if I give her another chance, she will be a changed woman and will do anything in this world I ask for. She said she has been petrified over the last 4 days that I would leave her, and is sickened by her behavior and for putting me through this pain. She feels like the isolation over the last 4 days has given her a glimpse of life without me, and it scares her. She said she wants to be there to help me through this and will go to any counseling I ask. She's nearly finished reading "Not Just Friends" and asked if there were any other books I wanted her to read.
> 
> I mean she's saying all the right things, and showing tons of remorse. But even so, the thoughts are still fresh in my head, and the thoughtlessness of her actions just eats at me. Looking forward to what the counselor has to say.


Ask her that you can take more previous infidelity but not any more lies. But based on your reaction to the current situation, I would be surprised if she would reveal anything more.


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## The bishop

The question I would be asking myself and her is "what went on between the time of the kiss and being caught in the bathroom? If they were sneaking of after the kiss; they certainly were "not really checking on the kids"


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## Hicks

The bishop said:


> The question I would be asking myself and her is "what went on between the time of the kiss and being caught in the bathroom? If they were sneaking of after the kiss; they certainly were "not really checking on the kids"


They were planning out the cheating.
There is no reason to wonder about any of this.

She cheated. 

Why is everyone trying to re-catch her at what she has already been caught doing.


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## cpacan

Hicks said:


> They were planning out the cheating.
> There is no reason to wonder about any of this.
> 
> She cheated.
> 
> Why is everyone trying to re-catch her at what she has already been caught doing.


I agree to some extend. I guess you could call it mindpicking. Every BS will go far to understand what is going on in the cheaters head, simply to understand the "WHY".

It's a defence mechanism to avoid future pain.


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## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> So, do you actually know what happened in the bathroom? before you opened the door? She kissed the other guy in your driveway. Then hooked up with him while you are 2 rooms away. Not sure if this was a one time thing(with the OM or not)
> 
> How convinced are you that you got the whole truth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask her that you can take more previous infidelity but not any more lies. But based on your reaction to the current situation, I would be surprised if she would reveal anything more.


I am convinced I got the whole truth that before Friday night, there was no relationship developing between the OM and my wife. As for the circumstances of the night, I still feel like my wife is keeping things from between the time of that first kiss to when I caught them, mainly because she wants to spare me any more hurt. I've said the things you suggest, i.e., "I need you to tell me every little detail now, because if I decide to forgive you, then find out a new detail, that will be like you cheated a second time, and it will absolutely be over".


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## Feeling_bad

Hicks said:


> They were planning out the cheating.
> There is no reason to wonder about any of this.
> 
> She cheated.
> 
> Why is everyone trying to re-catch her at what she has already been caught doing.


Here's what I don't get about that rationale. If they were planning it out throughout the night, why would the plan take them to a hallway bathroom where 3 kids and 6 other adults were constantly in and out of throughout the night using. My daughter's room is right across the hall, and my master bedroom is 5 feet past that. In addition, my master bedroom door was closed all night to keep people out. If there was such a plan, why not go into my master bedroom, lock the door, and get busy (especially when no one would have a second thought about that door being closed). Why not use a bed instead of a bathroom with a nasty cat litter box (with no top on it) in it. Oh by the way, the OM's boxers were in the cat litter box, right on top of a pile of sh#t when I walked in on them. So that doesn't sound more like drunk spontaneous behavior, rather than working up some master plan throughout the night?


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## MarriedTex

Feeling_bad said:


> Remains, thanks for the message. It helps a bit, but it's still beyond comprehension for me that she went as far as she did. It's just going to take me time to be able to comprehend and/or forgive.
> 
> As for the adult themed games everyone keeps speaking of. The game we played is called "The Game of Things". While it's adult themed, it's really not a sexually charged game. Take some time to Google it. You might find it sounds like fun and order it for your next get together.


Uuuuh, given the results you had with the game, I think I'll pass.


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## WorkingOnMe

Look, I'll admit I'm a sucker for a crying girl. But I sense real remorse here and I think this was one big drunk mistake. Now make some new rules, first one being she no longer drinks at all. Then, take her to bed and reclaim your wife. Make sure she does everything she ever said no to in the past.


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## warlock07

Feeling_bad said:


> Here's what I don't get about that rationale. If they were planning it out throughout the night, why would the plan take them to a hallway bathroom where 3 kids and 6 other adults were constantly in and out of throughout the night using. My daughter's room is right across the hall, and my master bedroom is 5 feet past that. In addition, my master bedroom door was closed all night to keep people out. If there was such a plan, why not go into my master bedroom, lock the door, and get busy (especially when no one would have a second thought about that door being closed). Why not use a bed instead of a bathroom with a nasty cat litter box (with no top on it) in it. Oh by the way, the OM's boxers were in the cat litter box, right on top of a pile of sh#t when I walked in on them. So that doesn't sound more like drunk spontaneous behavior, rather than working up some master plan throughout the night?


Why do thieves leave evidence and get caught ? They were stupid enough to think they can get away with it. They trusted your trust in her.


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## jh52

Hey Feeling -- just catching up today with your thread. Did you ask your wife if it was a kiss --- or a partial/full makeout session like you walked into the bathroom.

My feeling is that they could have started making out in the driveway and realized they could get caught -- so let's take it inside.

That's why she didn't say anything to him or you -- and continued to allow other man to follow her around the house and checking out the kids.

If it was a makeout session -- your wife and OM both then knew what was going to happen. Only question was where and when.

I a sense it may be a good thing you caught them in the bathroom -- because if you didn't -- your wife and OM would probably have continued sneaking around and it would have been a full blown affair. After all, OM is already a cheater -- and his goal was to cheat closer to home -- and your wife was his target. Unfortunately for whatever reason -- she went along with the plan as well.


----------



## Hicks

Feeling_bad said:


> Here's what I don't get about that rationale. If they were planning it out throughout the night, why would the plan take them to a hallway bathroom where 3 kids and 6 other adults were constantly in and out of throughout the night using. My daughter's room is right across the hall, and my master bedroom is 5 feet past that. In addition, my master bedroom door was closed all night to keep people out. If there was such a plan, why not go into my master bedroom, lock the door, and get busy (especially when no one would have a second thought about that door being closed). Why not use a bed instead of a bathroom with a nasty cat litter box (with no top on it) in it. Oh by the way, the OM's boxers were in the cat litter box, right on top of a pile of sh#t when I walked in on them. So that doesn't sound more like drunk spontaneous behavior, rather than working up some master plan throughout the night?


What I am trying to say, is she planned it in her heart.
She did it willingly and with purpose. If it did not happen in the bathroom it would have happened somewhere else. The flirting / pursuing / crescendo building is something that happened. 2 individuals acted together to make it occur.

But what I am really saying is accept that this occured. Your situation is way better than a normal affair scenario of 2 people falling in love, love growing, consumation, and an ongoing physical affiar. This was a quick attraction that built up and was looking to get released. You caught it before real damage could occur.

The worst case is she planned it out in her mind for 2 weeks. The best case is she got drunk and dropped her inhibitions. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

Your wife's remorse, the real thing you have today, is what you use to build on. Most betrayed husbands are dealing with an affiar that built up over time, stayed physical for a time, and the wife is not remorseful.... You have it far far better than most.


----------



## Feeling_bad

warlock07 said:


> Why do thieves leave evidence and get caught ? They were stupid enough to think they can get away with it. They trusted your trust in her.


Because they're drunk thieves...j/k. I hear what you're saying, but my wife is not stupid (when sober), so if she were generating some master plan throughout the night to bang this guy, they're were several other ways to go about it without getting caught so easily. They could have also taken it outside. 

I acknowledge I might be rationalizing here, and also admit there was probably some excessive flirting (that may have included more kissing, rubbing, etc) between that first kiss and the bathroom that perpetuated what ultimately happened. This is what I'm trying to get my wife to admit to now, but she says there wasn't. Even so, I think what happened in the bathroom was driven by drunken euphoria and not a master plan throughout the night.

I'm not trying to make my wife look like a peach in this. Her biggest f#ck up was not putting a stop to it after that first kiss by either telling me about it or sitting her a$$ next to me for the rest of the night.


----------



## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> I a sense it may be a good thing you caught them in the bathroom -- because if you didn't -- your wife and OM would probably have continued sneaking around and it would have been a full blown affair. After all, OM is already a cheater -- and his goal was to cheat closer to home -- and your wife was his target. Unfortunately for whatever reason -- she went along with the plan as well.


I've thought about this as well, and expressed it to my wife. Had they been able to get away with it (and I mean full blown sex). Would it have stuck in her mind and she'd be wanting more, or would she have confessed to me the next morning about her drunken escapades? I hate thinking about what that answer could be.


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## Feeling_bad

Here's a thought too...My wife was on her period, and had her tampon in when sh#t got steamy. If this was pre-planned, wouldn't she have removed that thing first?


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## jh52

I guess you could have your wife agree to take a polograph test and then come up with a list of all your questions/doubts/suspicions etc. and see what happens. Not sure how expensive these tests are or how many questions can be asked -- but I thought I would throw this out there -- since there are some questions remaning in your mind.


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## The bishop

I really don't think they planned this....They got caught up in the moment. I think as the night wore on and they kept sneaking away and not getting caught, getting more excited, more drunk, (a game of their own) each getting more brazen... and you end up doing the unthinkable


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## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> I guess you could have your wife agree to take a polograph test and then come up with a list of all your questions/doubts/suspicions etc. and see what happens. Not sure how expensive these tests are or how many questions can be asked -- but I thought I would throw this out there -- since there are some questions remaning in your mind.


Last night, I told my wife I wanted her to take a polygraph test to answer these questions, and she didn't hesitate in saying yes. I was happy to hear that, but I really wasn't serious. I guess I might need to follow through with that now.


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## aug

Feeling_bad said:


> Here's a thought too...My wife was on her period, and had her tampon in when sh#t got steamy. If this was pre-planned, wouldn't she have removed that thing first?



tampon can be removed at any time. she need not plan this step ahead of time.


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## Wanting1

I just wanted to chime in again. I've been thinking all day about this and my opinion on this has changed with the new information of the kiss earlier in the night. 

With the first kiss happening when she was much more sober and able to reason, makes the situation (to me) much more bleak. She had the chance to shut him down completely and to tell you what happened. Instead, she encouraged him. She didn't stop it. She didn't tell you. She continued to put herself in a position to be alone with him for the rest of the evening. Which means....she was planning on it going further. *Planning on it.* I think the alcohol was a factor because it made both of them greedy. Greedy enough for each other to risk getting caught. Too greedy to wait for a "better time and place." I don't think they had a master plan to end up in the bathroom making out.

I firmly believe if you hadn't caught them when you did, you would have found your way to this forum at some point in the not too distant future with a much worse story. 

Okay, so you know all this already. What to do about it. Well, your wife is obviously regretting getting caught. And probably showing remorse because she knows realizes she could lose it all. But as you've said yourself, you've got a lot to lose too. You love your family. You love your wife. It sounds like she loves you (or at the very least, doesn't want to lose you) and you can work with that. I know you've already mentioned you've got the counseling part covered. Check. 

Did you say you were close to 20 years in service? I would work out an exit strategy if possible and drop the retirement package as soon as its possible. If there are no possible deployments looming on the horizon, this may not be as critical. But there are still schools, field problems, and training exercises to consider. She threw 12 years of trust away in one night while you were just down the hall. I'm not sure I'd ever get to a point where I could be away for an extended time from a spouse who did that to me.

Next, definitely recommend* Not Just Friends* by Shirley Glass. It really covers, in depth, the thought processes and psychology behind these scenarios. Another is *His Needs, Her Needs*. This one I have only partially read to date, and it has been a real eye opener for me. Why would I read these books if my marriage hasn't been rocked by infidelity, you might ask? I purchased both of these books based on the recommendations of betrayed spouses on this website who repeatedly stated that if they had read these books before their spouse had an affair, they would likely have been able to stop it, and barring that dealt with it much more effectively. I am essentially trying to Affair Proof my marriage. I think it may not be too late for you to do this for the future of your marriage, at least. I wish you good luck.


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## aug

If you are considering boundaries like no alcohol, no flirting with men, you may want to consider that she also flirts with women.


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## Feeling_bad

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Did you say you were close to 20 years in service? I would work out an exit strategy if possible and drop the retirement package as soon as its possible. If there are no possible deployments looming on the horizon, this may not be as critical. But there are still schools, field problems, and training exercises to consider. She threw 12 years of trust away in one night while you were just down the hall. I'm not sure I'd ever get to a point where I could be away for an extended time from a spouse who did that to me.
> 
> Next, definitely recommend* Not Just Friends* by Shirley Glass. It really covers, in depth, the thought processes and psychology behind these scenarios. Another is *His Needs, Her Needs*. This one I have only partially read to date, and it has been a real eye opener for me. Why would I read these books if my marriage hasn't been rocked by infidelity, you might ask? I purchased both of these books based on the recommendations of betrayed spouses on this website who repeatedly stated that if they had read these books before their spouse had an affair, they would likely have been able to stop it, and barring that dealt with it much more effectively. I am essentially trying to Affair Proof my marriage. I think it may not be too late for you to do this for the future of your marriage, at least. I wish you good luck.


I'm a couple of years away from 20, so can't retire quite yet. For the books, I saw the "Not Just Friends" recommendation earlier. Someone had suggested both my wife and I should read it. I told my wife about it, and she's about finished with it and ready to read any other books I tell her. I will consider "His needs, Her needs".

Thanks...


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## Feeling_bad

aug said:


> If you are considering boundaries like no alcohol, no flirting with men, you may want to consider that she also flirts with women.


I assume you mean "doesn't" flirt with women. As a man that's a tough sacrifice, but you're right


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## dogman

Feeling Bad, you really need to do a polygraph and put this thing to rest. Your wife loves you and you love her. Your lucky you have a very sexual wife and you caught this sh$t before it got bad. Som guys are stuck with wives that don't want sex at all and that is a whole other bad direction. You really will regret divorcing over this because of the logistics with your daughter. 
Do a poly and decide..in or out.. Then make it happen. If you decide to R then follow the advice of the guys on TAM. If you divorce you'll find someone else but your daughter is a one and only. If you R then set rules but don't roast her daily or she will want out eventually. Good luck .. Oh yeah get the OM alone and hurt him where no marks will show.youll feel better. Just tell us how it goes down.


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## CH

FB, the trickle truth is just starting. You posed a question to her if anything else happened after the kiss and before the bathroom incident and she gave you the deer in the headlights response.

If nothing happened she would have said no right away, either a good liar or she's being truthful.

The deer in the headlights response = Oh crap, how do I come up with a good enough excuse at this point. I know, I'll just keep quiet and hope he stops asking for it. I've done the deer in the headlights. If something isn't true I'll fight tooth and nail for it because it's a lie. But if something did happen and my wife can't confirm it, best to keep your mouth shut and hope they never find it out.

That's just from me when I cheated.

There's more to this story.

So recap

Wife kisses other man 1-2 hours before bathroom incident while outside smoking with him.

He brags that he's cheated on his wife to your wife and she's so smitten by it she wants to hang around a cheater.

The 2 of them keep leaving together EVERY SINGLE time to check up on the kids. Making everyone laugh about it saying what's going on are they fooling around, har har, lol, too funny.

You finally get suspicious and go looking for your wife and confirm your worst fears by catching them red handed.

You got from point A to point B but there are just too many red flags between point A and B at the moment.

It all depends on you how much do you need to know and how much you can take before R is off the table and D is the only option.


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## warlock07

> I firmly believe if you hadn't caught them when you did, you would have found your way to this forum at some point in the not too distant future with a much worse story.


This is an important point.


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## dogman

Quote:
I firmly believe if you hadn't caught them when you did, you would have found your way to this forum at some point in the not too distant future with a much worse story.

Absolutely! This needed to be nipped early. She needs to stop drinking entirely. Start AA for sure, as part of the conditions to not divorce. 

I wish that Dig and Regret could have nipped their situation early like this. Maybe this would have gotten farther if she didn't get so drunk and make mistakes like not locking the door and staying in such close proximity. 

Be that as it may, it didn't progress and may not have after that night....it's done and anything else is guessing unless there's a poly.


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## Machiavelli

RWB said:


> Your issue is not with the OM... it solely lies with your wife.


OP has an issue with the OM, attempted adultery. Same issue as with the wife.

OM gets X'd out any way OP can within legal means. Mess with his career, etc with whatever tool comes to hand.


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## Machiavelli

FB,
Schedule the poly. Don't limit the questions to this one event. I'd spend my $$ checking into what happened during previous deployments and field time.


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## WorkingOnMe

I suspect that ws did not plan anything in advance. But I'm not sure I can say the same about om. I'm thinking he started the night with an agenda.


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## Machiavelli

Feeling_bad said:


> I like your last question...I actually just posed it to my wife. Maybe I should go out and cheat, and she'll be more impressed by me . Anyway, she didn't have a good response to the question.


Alpha behavior is attractive. Nailing another man's wife under his roof while he's in the next room is about as alpha as it gets. Women really hate cheating guys, until they're in the crosshairs. When the charm is turned on them, it's like: "he's had all these other women, and he wants ME." It worked on your wife and she was on the rag. You'd better lock her in the shed when she's ovulating.



Feeling_bad said:


> ...Then this past Friday night, my wife and the OM get drunk, and he makes a move via the first kiss. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he initiated the move given his history as a cheater. My wife, admittedly flattered by the kiss, doesn't do anything to stop it. Not certain if she didn't think it would go any further, given the OM was her friend's husband, or she was worked up by that kiss, and was curious where that could lead (I shutter to think this was the case). Anyway, the night goes on, the drinks continue, and it gets to where we finish off in the bathroom. Could this be plausible?


What's most plausible is that they were hitting the bottle heavy to get the dutch courage to go through with what they already knew they were going to try for. The "harmless" joint disappearances throughout the night were to just set the stage for the quickie in the bathroom. The quick touches and gropes in between the smoking kiss and the bust were foreplay.

Instigate, Isolate, Escalate. Google that.


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## MarriedTex

WorkingOnMe said:


> I suspect that ws did not plan anything in advance. But I'm not sure I can say the same about om. I'm thinking he started the night with an agenda.


Yes, as I recall, he wasn't actively playing in the game, right? Always available to tag along with his target. Was he drinking less than others at the party?

What excuse did he give for not playing the game? Also, is it a drinking game of sorts? He was a rat. Your wife was a victim of his scam. The question you have to answer is why she allowed herself to become that victim.


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## Machiavelli

WorkingOnMe said:


> I suspect that ws did not plan anything in advance. But I'm not sure I can say the same about om. I'm thinking he started the night with an agenda.


Maybe not WW when the evening started, but OM certainly did. Then he worked her around to it. By the time it happened, she was like Little Caesar's Pizza, "hot and ready."

You know, this "adult board games" are played a lot at swinger's parties right? Along with the alcohol, they get the new women to in the right mind set. Who brought the game?


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## Feeling_bad

MarriedTex said:


> Yes, as I recall, he wasn't actively playing in the game, right? Always available to tag along with his target. Was he drinking less than others at the party?
> 
> What excuse did he give for not playing the game? Also, is it a drinking game of sorts? He was a rat. Your wife was a victim of his scam. The question you have to answer is why she allowed herself to become that victim.


No, he was drinking more heavily, plus he started drinking, according to the OMW, about 2 hours before coming over. He said he stopped playing because he thought the game was boring. My wife was mostly playing with us, but when everyone stopped to take a break (bathroom, to get another beer, etc), I guess my wife's break would last a little longer, and usually she'd still be checking on the kids (talking with my daughter), with the OM happening to be there. Again, there were a few times I checked the kids, and both OM and my wife were there, which further enhanced my trust that nothing was going on.


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## alte Dame

Have followed this thread since the beginning & have the sense that this was a predator-prey sort of scenario, where OM set his sights on your wife and she was flattered by the aggressive interest. The kiss started the ball rolling & the rest of the evening was essentially a secret chase. The OM's agenda is clear to her even though she doesn't believe she intends to follow through. As she gets drunker, she's more and more into 'drunk fantasy perspective' and her intentions become very muddied & her resistance to being 'caught' gets weak. He finally catches her on one of the forays to check the children, so it's not especially planned, but it's definitely foreseeable.

Once your wife is busted and sober, the playing field of your marriage is dramatically shifted. She no longer feels at your level; she's ashamed & has no moral basis for talking to you as an equal. She knows you're viewing her completely differently, that you don't respect her right now as a decent human being. In order to re-level the playing field, so to speak, she knows she has to regain some trust and respect. She'll do anything to prove to you that she wants to do that, but right now she knows she has no right to expect anything from you. She's grateful for any crumb you offer - and she should be. IMO, the only way to even open a discussion is if she is adject in her remorse.


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## Feeling_bad

TAM community, 

I just wanted to say that posting my situation here has been very therapeutic. While I'm still working through the issue, and awaiting the counseling I need, you all have helped me keep sane over the last 5 days. Your candid, and very helpful inputs have made me question more than what I otherwise would have questioned, and it will certainly help me make the right decision about the future of my marriage. Thanks for all your support, and I look forward to hearing more input in the future. Also, I will keep you informed of any new revelations.

Feeling_Bad


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## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> TAM community,
> 
> I just wanted to say that posting my situation here has been very therapeutic. While I'm still working through the issue, and awaiting the counseling I need, you all have helped me keep sane over the last 5 days. Your candid, and very helpful inputs have made me question more than what I otherwise would have questioned, and it will certainly help me make the right decision about the future of my marriage. Thanks for all your support, and I look forward to hearing more input in the future. Also, I will keep you informed of any new revelations.
> 
> Feeling_Bad


FB

Just get your head on tight buddy.

I know it sucks what you saw and how it went down. You handled it well.

Both you and your wife are in my prayers. I hope that your marriage survives this event and becomes even stronger.

Be well.

HM64


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## Acabado

Another one in your corner.


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## joe kidd

It's normal. Early on there were times I could look at her and almost (but not quite) forget what she did. Of course those moments were short lived. I'm sure you have made your pain quite clear to her.


----------



## Feeling_bad

joe kidd said:


> It's normal. Early on there were times I could look at her and almost (but not quite) forget what she did. Of course those moments were short lived. I'm sure you have made your pain quite clear to her.


Thanks Joe...took the question off, because it sounded kinda ridiculous to me. But it's good to know it could happen.

In case anyone was wondering, my question, which I shortly deleted thereafter, was that my wife made me laugh tonight just 5 days after d-day. I wasn't comfortable laughing so soon, and I made sure she knew that it didn't mean I was ready to get over what she did to me. Just curious if it made sense that I would laugh.


----------



## Entropy3000

RWB said:


> FB,
> 
> What your wife did was just plain wrong... agreed. And yes it does change your marriage forever and screws with your head.
> 
> BUT... (always the but)
> 
> Your issue is not with the OM... *it solely lies with your wife.* It appears this is an isolated, alcohol induced, transgression. You do need to verify the validity of this conclusion. If so, and you can forgive her... and your wife is truly remorseful and is willing to back it up... Consider yourself a very lucky man.
> 
> Your marriage has been given a real "shot over the bow". You and her now know what the real endgame of affairs. If you forgive and R, she needs to know that this is it. The slightest betrayal, physical or not mean D. There are no 2nd... 3rd chances.


Totally absurd. There is plenty of blame to go around. Why do predators get a free pass? I know it is trendy to not hold people accountable these days. But they are both culpable for different reasons. 

His wife broke her vows. He needs to deal with her one way or another.

Predator does this to his wife. Her being willing in no way gives him a free pass. He did this in the husbands home. To the mother of his children. No this low life deserves to be held accountable.

I am not suggesting that OP needs to do anything right now. But for sure this man violated his marriage WITH his wife.


----------



## The bishop

:smthumbup: on laughing:smthumbup:

Bet you needed that, even if you felt a bit guilty that it was your wife who provided it!!!


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## CH

Hang in there, if there are miracles I'm one of them on this board. If my wife took me back and stayed with me for this long, there is always hope for others.


----------



## happyman64

Feeling_bad said:


> Thanks Joe...took the question off, because it sounded kinda ridiculous to me. But it's good to know it could happen.
> 
> In case anyone was wondering, my question, which I shortly deleted thereafter, was that my wife made me laugh tonight just 5 days after d-day. I wasn't comfortable laughing so soon, and I made sure she knew that it didn't mean I was ready to get over what she did to me. Just curious if it made sense that I would laugh.


I always say laughter is the quickest way to heal.

And no, you need to lighten up. Not for her for you. Because you are going to have an aneurysm if you do not.

My friend, you still love your wife. Be happy that she can still make you laugh.
And the sense that you can still laugh means you are already healing.


----------



## RWB

Entropy3000 said:


> Totally absurd. There is plenty of blame to go around. Why do predators get a free pass? I know it is trendy to not hold people accountable these days. But they are both culpable for different reasons.


Entropy... 

I totally get what you are saying. My wife was a serial cheater for years before finding out the truth of her betrayal. I went after "them" every way I could... exposure to spouses, employment, and their own family. No regrets about doing it. 

But... 

In the end... it was my wife that broke the trust, the vows, the pledge of fidelity and this was paramount. The low life's that participated in the betrayal were culpable without any doubt. But they never contracted with me.


----------



## lovelygirl

The bishop said:


> The red flags were there she just chooses to ignore them. Her doing this with you and your daughter in the next room and her keeping quiet in the bathroom when you knocked would be enough for me to throw her out.


Yeah I was thinking about this too.

When the OP first knocked, she didn't even bother to pull her pants up. 
She didn't give a sh#t and kept on doing her thing as if OP was none of her business.


----------



## Entropy3000

RWB said:


> Entropy...
> 
> I totally get what you are saying. My wife was a serial cheater for years before finding out the truth of her betrayal. I went after "them" every way I could... exposure to spouses, employment, and their own family. No regrets about doing it.
> 
> But...
> 
> In the end... it was my wife that broke the trust, the vows, the pledge of fidelity and this was paramount. The low life's that participated in the betrayal were culpable without any doubt. But they never contracted with me.


I get the focus, but indeed those that disrespect us have violated an implicit contract.

He invited this man, his wife and his childen into his home. He allowed this man to be near his wife and his children.

These are both career military men. Yes there are sleazes in all walks of life. But there is a bond here IMO that was violated.

The person that steals from us has violated us. And indeed while his wife was a party to this, this man stole a very precious thing from his family that will always be there from now on in some measure. Yes we have ownership of our families as they own us. Family is not a possession but rather the most important responisbility a man has in his life even before his own honor. A family is entrusted to us as men to honor and protect. This is fundamental. We let them down when we do not do this. Yes his wife let him down so it falls squarely on his shoulders to hold those parties accountable. It is right and just. 

I am traditional in that I believe in honor and duty.
I believe in respect for myself and encourage it in others. He is career military so he understands this. Many will say anitiquated but these things are truly timeless. If these are antiquated so then is marriage. So then is human dignity. This is not Huxley's Brave New World though we seem to be headed that way. 

We are all human so a man of substance also has within him compassion. He can weigh what it will take for him to forgive his wife. He has some responsibility to weigh whether they reconsile of not with her. This other man is forever banished. Forgiveness need not come without accountability. In fact that is rug sweeping.

Forgiveness is in our hearts. At some point he will need to forgive these people each in the right context and at the right time for his own good. He will also need to forgive himself. In no way was this his fault. He knows this intellectually but whether he realizes this there is some struggle going on at his center over this. As men we are protectors. he is military so he knows this was on his watch. He also knows that his partner is supposed to be a protector as well. She let him down.

He violated his wife, his childrens mother and her husband. He dominated him with his wife. That is total disrespect. If one has proper self respect they can better undertand that being disrepected by others is an offense owed to him. Yes owed. No one has this right to disrespect someone in this way.
While you mention contract there is also no bill or rights for cheaters either. 

The person who would harm our children violates us. The person who sells the drugs to a loved one of ours violates even though the loved one was after it.

Indeed in our society there is a contract of human decency that if violated needs to be reconsiled.

What I do get is that he should not lose focus on his family. That said he can indeed hold both of them accountable. he owes the other man no quarter. He owes his wife an opportunity to make this right. He owes neither his future trust. His wife will have to earn it. He should never trust this man again.

I reapeat there is no cheater bill of rights. No man has any reason to believe if he seduces a married woman that he has this right. I believe many think it a freedom. How misguided and dangerous a thought. The man who does this is at risk.

We get to choose how we hold other accountable but my point is that we have that right.

I wish you peace.


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## Jonesey

lovelygirl said:


> Yeah I was thinking about this too.
> 
> When the OP first knocked, she didn't even bother to pull her pants up.
> She didn't give a sh#t and kept on doing her thing as if OP was none of her business.


Get what you mean by that. But at that stage ,she was most likley
Way to drunk,and mistakenly tought her husband would be satisfied that OM was a lone in there.I mean another guy just dont open a toilett door when a another dude is doing his thing. Sadly in this case
Is what not was i was reffering to.


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## happyman64

Jonesey said:


> Get what you mean by that. But at that stage ,she was most likley
> Way to drunk,and mistakenly tought her husband would be satisfied that OM was a lone in there.I mean another guy just dont open a toilett door when a another dude is doing his thing. Sadly in this case
> Is what not was i was reffering to.


:iagree:

Everyone is beating this dead horse. She was blitzed out of her mind.

Sadly, they both need to deal with it and fix the issues.

They know what they are so let them.

Rock tight boundaries will A proof this marriage.

And no alcohol ever for these guys. No adult board games ever. And the small parties just flew out the door for a long time if not 4 ever.

I am glad he caught it in time no matter what he saw. I honestly believe their respective spouses should have slapped the crap out of them but there were children present and violence would not fix anything.

SO let them get to work instead rehashing this event.

HM64


----------



## iheartlife

Jonesey said:


> Get what you mean by that. But at that stage ,she was most likley
> Way to drunk,and mistakenly tought her husband would be satisfied that OM was alone in there.


I totally agree. Been around enough black-out drunks during college to say that when someone is in that condition, that is exactly how they behave. They aren't able to engage in a conversation, much less express embarrassment or shame of any kind. (Besides--isn't embarrassment / shame one of the FIRST things to go when someone drinks? That's why it's a social lubrica...err, facilitator.)

I've told these stories before in other threads, sorry for the repeat.
I had one friend in college who found herself locked in a strange room with a man trying to have sex with her. In the dark, she groped around and managed to get out. I'm sure the average person would have found it very incriminating that she was in the room at all, but she was clearly appalled and vowed not to drink to excess any more. I've heard many, many similar stories.

I had another friend who came home and passed out right in front of us. Her arms and legs were covered with permanent magic marker from frat guys at a party. She is also fortunate that this was the very worst that happened. She had zero recollection, obviously, of being covered with black marker. But somehow she managed to walk home, a distance that required walking for at least 15 minutes.

This version is supported by the fact that his wife passed out so quickly after this happened. The truth is, she is very fortunate her brain kept working well enough to tell her lungs to breathe. I've known other people who've had very close calls with alcohol poisoning, needed paramedics, but pulled through. I've known others (friends of friends) who choked and died on their own vomit, etc.

Passing out from drinking alcohol is so common, and often seen in movies, etc., that people don't fully understand how dangerous it is. It is a sign that the alcohol is sedating the person and shutting down their brain. Leave them passed out to 'sleep it off' and they may never wake up. So, just try to picture the condition their brain would have to be in just before this stage.

None of this justifies what she did, but it does explain her behavior upon being caught.


----------



## oneMOreguy

....I believe that large doses of alcohol do much more than just lower inhibitions, and it is not just your "inner self" breaking thru when you are very drunk. I have seen enough in myself and others to believe that the core thought processes themselves are thrown off balance, and that the logical thought process no longer exists, although the drunk person could never be convinced of that.... Added to that, if any other drugs are in the system, either prescribed or not, some very toxic by-products can be created which really poison the mind. In my sad case, amphetamines used for ADHD control.

Not trying to provide excuses, just another way of looking at things. At this point, I believe that the OP would have more to worry about if his wife failed to learn from her poor behavior when drinking waaaay too much. Let's face it, this was not a planned or anticipated event.....it was just over the top in terms of stupid stupid stupid. Both in terms in how they were (or failed to) thinking, and how they acted on the stupid thinking.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Finally had my first counseling session today. I think I got lucky, I was very happy with the counselor. She perfectly described the roller coaster of emotions I was going through, and said a lot of things I've seen on the forum. I asked her if in her experience, does my story sound like one where there could be reconciliation...she said yes. I'll be honest and say that I was happy to hear that. She wants to see both my wife and I next...this Monday. I still have some things to work through in my head before deciding what to ultimately do, but the counseling was a very good start.

Also, believe it or not, the OMW actually reached out to my wife to tell her she misses her, and wants to talk to her. I told the OMW she had a heart of gold. I also told my wife that if they reconcile, she still cannot see the OM ever. That means the OMW can come visit at my house, and that's it. My wife fully complied and said she would cut off the OMW completely if that's what I wanted. I also told the OMW there's no way I want anything to do with the OM, and she fully understands. Not even sure yet if the OMW will forgive her husband. Anyway, I'd be interested in some thoughts on this.


----------



## MarriedTex

What is status of OM/OMW now? Has she kicked him out? Or are they reconciling?


----------



## Feeling_bad

MarriedTex said:


> What is status of OM/OMW now? Has she kicked him out? Or are they reconciling?


He was out of the house for about 3 days, then he came back. It's like an in-house separation. Sleeping in separate beds, hanging out in separate rooms, etc. She began counseling this week also, so I think she's seeing if that will help before she decides what to ultimately do.


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## happyman64

tdwal said:


> Wow, that is really a surprise from the OMW. Your wife feels comfortable talking with her after what happened? Kinda makes me think the OMW is blaming her husband more for it.


Not necessarily.

I think the OMW is dealing with her husband.

And I think she knows Feeling Bad is dealing with his wife in the correct manner.

Also, the OMW kicks ass.....


----------



## MarriedTex

Feeling_bad said:


> He was out of the house for about 3 days, then he came back. It's like an in-house separation. Sleeping in separate beds, hanging out in separate rooms, etc. She began counseling this week also, so I think she's seeing if that will help before she decides what to ultimately do.


I actually think relationship between the OMW and your wife could help her. Have someone other than you to speak with. 

Huge boundaries need to be established, of course. Drinking/party-style socializing is no-go. I would not let them meet anywhere except your house. 

Thing you have to worry about is the triggers. Every time you see OMW you will think of that night. If you can stand to have her around, you're a bigger man than me.


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## Feeling_bad

MarriedTex said:


> I actually think relationship between the OMW and your wife could help her. Have someone other than you to speak with.
> 
> Huge boundaries need to be established, of course. Drinking/party-style socializing is no-go. I would not let them meet anywhere except your house.
> 
> Thing you have to worry about is the triggers. Every time you see OMW you will think of that night. If you can stand to have her around, you're a bigger man than me.


Well the OMW and I have worked well together this week to determine that this was a one-night fling...we both found no evidence that my wife or the OM had been developing a relationship behind my back. I'm ok around the OMW. I told her she's got a heart of gold if she can forgive my wife. I also told her that while she may be able to forgive my wife, I will not make any attempt to forgive her husband the OM. Unlike my wife and the OMW, the OM and I were merely acquaintances, so I have no bond with him that would make me even want to see/speak with him again. 

My boundary for a reconciliation between the OMW and my wife has already been set. The OMW can only visit us, we will not ever go to her house (unless the OM is deployed or out of town for whatever reason). My wife fully respects my wishes in this.

Oh the drinking is done. My wife will not drink ever again...only if it is just her and I. This was her promise to me even before I demanded it.


----------



## happyman64

FB
Just wanted to say I think you are doing great.

HM64


----------



## Feeling_bad

Thanks...


----------



## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> Well the OMW and I have worked well together this week to determine that this was a one-night fling...we both found no evidence that my wife or the OM had been developing a relationship behind my back. I'm ok around the OMW. I told her she's got a heart of gold if she can forgive my wife. I also told her that while she may be able to forgive my wife, I will not make any attempt to forgive her husband the OM. Unlike my wife and the OMW, the OM and I were merely acquaintances, so I have no bond with him that would make me even want to see/speak with him again.
> 
> My boundary for a reconciliation between the OMW and my wife has already been set. The OMW can only visit us, we will not ever go to her house (unless the OM is deployed or out of town for whatever reason). My wife fully respects my wishes in this.
> 
> Oh the drinking is done. My wife will not drink ever again...only if it is just her and I. This was her promise to me even before I demanded it.


Okay -- is it just me or does anyone else find it strange that OMW wants to talk with Feel's wife and misses her.

How many wives would say something like this after she knows what her husband and her friend were doing in the bathroom. Most wives would want to hurt her as much as her husband.

Also, she wouldn't be a friend any longer as well but an xfriend.

Of course this is my opinion -- but once again I find this situation weird between OM's wife and Feel's wife !!

Maybe I am just getting old !!


----------



## Malaise

Entropy3000 said:


> I get the focus, but indeed those that disrespect us have violated an implicit contract.
> 
> He invited this man, his wife and his childen into his home. He allowed this man to be near his wife and his children.
> 
> These are both career military men. Yes there are sleazes in all walks of life. But there is a bond here IMO that was violated.
> 
> The person that steals from us has violated us. And indeed while his wife was a party to this, this man stole a very precious thing from his family that will always be there from now on in some measure. Yes we have ownership of our families as they own us. Family is not a possession but rather the most important responisbility a man has in his life even before his own honor. A family is entrusted to us as men to honor and protect. This is fundamental. We let them down when we do not do this. Yes his wife let him down so it falls squarely on his shoulders to hold those parties accountable. It is right and just.
> 
> I am traditional in that I believe in honor and duty.
> I believe in respect for myself and encourage it in others. He is career military so he understands this. Many will say anitiquated but these things are truly timeless. If these are antiquated so then is marriage. So then is human dignity. This is not Huxley's Brave New World though we seem to be headed that way.
> 
> We are all human so a man of substance also has within him compassion. He can weigh what it will take for him to forgive his wife. He has some responsibility to weigh whether they reconsile of not with her. This other man is forever banished. Forgiveness need not come without accountability. In fact that is rug sweeping.
> 
> Forgiveness is in our hearts. At some point he will need to forgive these people each in the right context and at the right time for his own good. He will also need to forgive himself. In no way was this his fault. He knows this intellectually but whether he realizes this there is some struggle going on at his center over this. As men we are protectors. he is military so he knows this was on his watch. He also knows that his partner is supposed to be a protector as well. She let him down.
> 
> He violated his wife, his childrens mother and her husband. He dominated him with his wife. That is total disrespect. If one has proper self respect they can better undertand that being disrepected by others is an offense owed to him. Yes owed. No one has this right to disrespect someone in this way.
> While you mention contract there is also no bill or rights for cheaters either.
> 
> The person who would harm our children violates us. The person who sells the drugs to a loved one of ours violates even though the loved one was after it.
> 
> Indeed in our society there is a contract of human decency that if violated needs to be reconsiled.
> 
> What I do get is that he should not lose focus on his family. That said he can indeed hold both of them accountable. he owes the other man no quarter. He owes his wife an opportunity to make this right. He owes neither his future trust. His wife will have to earn it. He should never trust this man again.
> 
> *I reapeat there is no cheater bill of rights. No man has any reason to believe if he seduces a married woman that he has this right. I believe many think it a freedom. How misguided and dangerous a thought. The man who does this is at risk.*We get to choose how we hold other accountable but my point is that we have that right.
> 
> I wish you peace.


Well said.

To me, a predator such as this deserves the same treatment as a burgllar who breaks into an occupied dwelling at night. Not to say that there should be violence done but that at the least looked at with scorn and derision,'shunned', by all of society.


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## lovelygirl

Feeling_bad said:


> Also, believe it or not, the OMW actually reached out to my wife to tell her she misses her, and wants to talk to her.


What???
That's not normal! Not at all! I wonder what there is hiding behind the OMW's intentions to reconcile with your wife.

I think the OMW has evil tendencies! See below:



> That means the OMW can come visit at my house, and that's it. .


Will the OMW try to take advantage of this boundary to take revenge of your wife by getting with you? This won't happen unless she makes you get drunk, for sure. Or I don't know. 

As a woman.... I can say that our evilish thoughts and tendencies/intentions, in reality ....sometimes go beyond imagination...


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## Feeling_bad

That, plus while the OMW and I have spent some time together this week to deal with this issue together, I recognize that needs to end. Not that anything sexual at all has even been considered. However, if the OMW forgives my wife and they begin a relationship anew, the OMW will only come here when my wife is here. I have zero thought whatsoever of trying to get revenge on my wife with the OMW or anyone.


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## oneMOreguy

it sounds like the OMW knows her husband well enough to be convinced that he was the instigator.......


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## dogman

Feeling_bad said:


> That, plus while the OMW and I have spent some time together this week to deal with this issue together, I recognize that needs to end. Not that anything sexual at all has even been considered. However, if the OMW forgives my wife and they begin a relationship anew, the OMW will only come here when my wife is here. I have zero thought whatsoever of trying to get revenge on my wife with the OMW or anyone.


 Your a good man FB. You have my respect for the way you've handled this so far. Keep it up.


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## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> He was out of the house for about 3 days, then he came back. It's like an in-house separation. Sleeping in separate beds, hanging out in separate rooms, etc. She began counseling this week also, so I think she's seeing if that will help before she decides what to ultimately do.


His back 3 days laiter? Strange.. Inhouse separation,and the source to that is? Something aint right here.:scratchhead:


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> Finally had my first counseling session today. I think I got lucky, I was very happy with the counselor. She perfectly described the roller coaster of emotions I was going through, and said a lot of things I've seen on the forum. I asked her if in her experience, does my story sound like one where there could be reconciliation...she said yes. I'll be honest and say that I was happy to hear that. She wants to see both my wife and I next...this Monday. I still have some things to work through in my head before deciding what to ultimately do, but the counseling was a very good start.
> 
> *Also, believe it or not, the OMW actually reached out to my wife to tell her she misses her, and wants to talk to her. *Seriously?? after what your wife did with her husband.And consider the short span of time..Hardly. I told the OMW she had a heart of gold. *I also told my wife that if they reconcile, she still cannot see the OM ever. * Believe it or not sooner or later he will be..You cant let gone by be gone by.And exclude OM.*That means the OMW can come visit at my house, and that's it. *Never a god idea.Cut them loose forever.* My wife fully complied and said she would cut off the OMW completely if that's what I wanted.* Smart thinking. *I also told the OMW there's no way I want anything to do with the OM, and she fully understands.* Im sure she does understand. Qustion is why does she want anything with your wife? *Not even sure yet if the OMW will forgive her husband.*She already has. Anyway, I'd be interested in some thoughts on this.




My advice stay the hell away from both of them..


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## Feeling_bad

Maybe she wants something to do with my wife, because maybe she now realizes what a piece of sh#t her husband is. I don't know why, and it's weird to me also. 

Either way, the OMW and my wife are in my living room now discussing. I'm actually kinda hoping the OMW is asking my wife for details so she can come up with a determination that her husband instigated and make the choice to leave him. So far, one box of tissues has been used. Awkward...


----------



## Jonesey

Feeling_bad said:


> Maybe she wants something to do with my wife, because maybe she now realizes what a piece of sh#t her husband is. I don't know why, and it's weird to me also.
> 
> Either way, the OMW and my wife are in my living room now discussing. I'm actually kinda hoping the OMW is asking my wife for details so she can come up with a determination that her husband instigated and make the choice to leave him. So far, one box of tissues has been used. Awkward...


Please listen man. After this talk tonight. stay away from them..Nothing good will come out of this.


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## happyman64

Very awkward and plain weird.

But this just goes to show us that we will never truly understand women 100%.

And who knows, you might just learn something today that you did not know before this crap happened.


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## jh52

Awkward ---- YES


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## Feeling_bad

Jonesey said:


> Please listen man. After this talk tonight. stay away from them..Nothing good will come out of this.


I hear ya, and it's sound advise for sure. I think it's therapeutic for the OMW to have this out with her previous best friend. I will certainly monitor and my wife wouldn't have met with the OMW if I wasn't cool with it. If I tell them to turn the friendship off, my wife will do that. I'll share the content of their conversation today once I have the details. Will be glad to hear your inputs based on that.


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## badbane

I still can't shake the feeling that there is more to this and just a drunken mistake. I am sorry I just am being honest. 
Not trying to be a jerk or anything. The story just seems to neat. Granted every situation is different, and I am not there in person. This just seems waaaaay out of the norm. I hope I am wrong feeling_bad. I hope I am wrong just please keep your guard up for a while.


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## Entropy3000

Men and women are different.

So the OMW and the wife are getting together.

Imagine how weird this would be if this was reveresed. The husband over the OM house deciding whether to divorce his wife. Wanting to keep them as friends separate from the wife.

I get that the women are friends. But what if the guys were close friends?

I could not fathom this.


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## WorkingOnMe

Careful. I'm pretty sure there's a french expression for what is brewing here. Payback will only feel good for a moment.


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## Feeling_bad

badbane said:


> I still can't shake the feeling that there is more to this and just a drunken mistake. I am sorry I just am being honest.
> Not trying to be a jerk or anything. The story just seems to neat. Granted every situation is different, and I am not there in person. This just seems waaaaay out of the norm. I hope I am wrong feeling_bad. I hope I am wrong just please keep your guard up for a while.


Before I read this, my brain was racking up ideas. I started thinking worst case scenario, i.e., maybe there was a threesome while I was gone a few weeks ago. I mean why would the OMW be willing to talk to my wife just a week later, and maybe if a 3-some did happen, that's what started a comfort level between my wife and the OM. 

I just interrupted my wife and OMW's conversation to ask this question. They responded no, and based on their responses and non-verbals, I believe them. I also made it clear to the OMW that if she forgives my wife and they become friends again, that my wife cannot be in the same room with her husband at any time. She fully understood and agreed. 

The OMW acknowledges that her husband is an SOB and feels like my wife acted strictly because of the booze. I feel she really puts a lot of blame on her husband. Not to say my wife is absolved from her wrongdoings.


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## jh52

"The OMW acknowledges that her husband is an SOB and feels like my wife acted strictly because of the booze. I feel she really puts a lot of blame on her husband. Not to say my wife is absolved from her wrongdoings."

Why do I feel the OMW has been to this rodeo a few times before !!


----------



## Feeling_bad

jh52 said:


> "The OMW acknowledges that her husband is an SOB and feels like my wife acted strictly because of the booze. I feel she really puts a lot of blame on her husband. Not to say my wife is absolved from her wrongdoings."
> 
> Why do I feel the OMW has been to this rodeo a few times before !!


She has. The unfortunate thing though is I heard her today say alcohol makes her husband do stupid things. This is possibly the 4th time her husband has been unfaithful, and I feel she's rationalizing her husband's behavior based on alcohol. As we spoke more about this, I told her (right in front of my wife), that if I forgive my wife, there will never be a second chance. 

I really hope the OMW's counselor steers her in the direction to dump this guy.


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## Feeling_bad

Perhaps I need to push the OMW to post on this forum.


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## jfv

I Think losing her best friend should be one of the consequences of her actions. Never mind that OMW is willing to reconcile with her. You should keep your boundaries as black and white as possible for your wife. Stay away from OM or anyone who is close to OM. By allowing OMW in her life you are keeping the OM in your world. What for? It won't hurt you to seem like a bit of a tough bastard in your response to all this. CUT ALL TIES. There is really no good reason for them to continue being friends. Keep your boundaries clear. Good Luck.


----------



## badbane

Feeling_bad said:


> Before I read this, my brain was racking up ideas. I started thinking worst case scenario, i.e., maybe there was a threesome while I was gone a few weeks ago. I mean why would the OMW be willing to talk to my wife just a week later, and maybe if a 3-some did happen, that's what started a comfort level between my wife and the OM.
> 
> I just interrupted my wife and OMW's conversation to ask this question. They responded no, and based on their responses and non-verbals, I believe them. I also made it clear to the OMW that if she forgives my wife and they become friends again, that my wife cannot be in the same room with her husband at any time. She fully understood and agreed.
> 
> The OMW acknowledges that her husband is an SOB and feels like my wife acted strictly because of the booze. I feel she really puts a lot of blame on her husband. Not to say my wife is absolved from her wrongdoings.


I just think it is strange that the OMW is so quick to be friends with you wife again. I mean there was betrayal there deep betrayal. If my bestfriend was involved in this it would be the end of the friendship. Maybe ten years down the road I might check in to make sure he was not dead. It would not matter if there was booze involved.
@#$# the booze. I mean most of your conclusions were reached based on the OW word alone. From everything you have said I think this woman has a clear case of codependency. I mean she hasn't left her husband, and she quickly goes back to her BFF and reconnects, and is not mad/outraged. Why I'd be pissed, or at the very least unable to see or speak to the person.

If she is codependent that means that they have a hard time with rejection,abandonment, and letting go. I mean your W and this woman haven't spent a lifetime together. It's only been months. I am just saying. What if the OMW is emotional unwilling or able to aknowledge infidelity. IT is likey she will try to overlook red flags to protect herself from being hurt. She not only would try to pass this off as a one time deal. She would do everything she could to make sure she didn't lose either your wife or her husband.

That's what codependent people do. Like people that stay with junkies and ignore the fact that the junky is robbing them blind. They are so afraid of rejection they just ignore it or accept it.

Right now is a bad time to just stop asking questions. I really really really really hope I am way off. But what if the OMW is emotionally unable to deal with these issues because she is attached to your wife and her husband.


----------



## Feeling_bad

jfv said:


> I Think losing her best friend should be one of the consequences of her actions. Never mind that OMW is willing to reconcile with her. You should keep your boundaries as black and white as possible for your wife. Stay away from OM or anyone who is close to OM. By allowing OMW in her life you are keeping the OM in your world. What for? It won't hurt you to seem like a bit of a tough bastard in your response to all this. CUT ALL TIES. There is really no good reason for them to continue being friends. Keep your boundaries clear. Good Luck.


I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm not letting the conversation that's occurring now happen cause my wife asked for it. The OMW asked for it. She wanted to have this discussion with my wife for her healing. Also, apparently the OMW's counselor said a confrontation with my wife would be good for her.


----------



## joe kidd

Feeling_bad said:


> Perhaps I need to push the OMW to post on this forum.


Maybe.... is she the fragile type? Some posters here can be very blunt.


----------



## Feeling_bad

badbane said:


> Right now is a bad time to just stop asking questions. I really really really really hope I am way off. But what if the OMW is emotionally unable to deal with these issues because she is attached to your wife and her husband.


Well what would your propose? There's no way I'm letting my wife near the OM. My wife states she doesn't want to ever see the OM again. Both my wife and the OMW understand my rule on this. My wife knows I'm not f#cking around about that, and will D if she remotely seeks the OM, and based on her remorsefulness all week, I believe she has no desire to break my wish.

Also, the OMW and I have worked well together this week to get through this. I would hate to cut her off from my wife at this time if speaking with my wife is helping her to cope.


----------



## Feeling_bad

joe kidd said:


> Maybe.... is she the fragile type? Some posters here can be very blunt.


She may be. I did tell her about this site, and the candid remarks I've received. I just haven't really pushed her to it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I think you're playing this just fine FB. Keep going the way you are.


----------



## AlphaHalf

Your not going to inform the his COC about his actions because you don't want it to affect his family. I understand the your reasons.

Now the OMW wants to still be friends. It looks like the OM has gotten a slap on the wrist again. What consequences does he face for his actions? He will continue his ways because his wife allows him. What other wife will he make a move on next? I hope the whole neighborhood knows to keep this guy away from the women. He's like a dog in heat of the leash, but now he's collared again temporarily. 

Your wife should stay away from the OMW period. The OMW doesn't want to lose a friend, That's to bad. There has to be some sort of consequences for the OM's actions. If they stay in contact , the next thing you'll always worry about is if the OM is around. Why get burnt by the fire once and then stand dangerously close to it again? 

Who knows what the OMW has done in her past, maybe she has a history of cheating too. Why would you expect them to admit anything if they all had a threesome. Anyone can put on a good acting performance depending on whats at stake. I'm not saying that they did in anyway. Have your wife take a poly test to alleviate all your worries for good.


----------



## MarriedTex

Feeling_bad said:


> I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm not letting the conversation that's occurring now happen cause my wife asked for it. The OMW asked for it. She wanted to have this discussion with my wife for her healing. Also, apparently the OMW's counselor said a confrontation with my wife would be good for her.


Talk about a missed opportunity for a VAR. Could've been instructive to listen to their whole conversation instead of just hopping in & out. 

My sense is you're getting the information you need, but every extra little bit would help in healing. Best of luck.


----------



## badbane

Feeling_bad said:


> Well what would your propose? There's no way I'm letting my wife near the OM. My wife states she doesn't want to ever see the OM again. Both my wife and the OMW understand my rule on this. My wife knows I'm not f#cking around about that, and will D if she remotely seeks the OM, and based on her remorsefulness all week, I believe she has no desire to break my wish.
> 
> Also, the OMW and I have worked well together this week to get through this. I would hate to cut her off from my wife at this time if speaking with my wife is helping her to cope.


No I would recommend that you get away from the both of them. I would start looking for the truth. This whole this is just too neat and tidy for something this bad. Trust me it's bad this is a bad bad thing. This isn't something that should be neat and tidy. That you all sit and talk about. Does it sound like your wife is having a confrontation in there. Does it sound like the OMW is going, "That time when I left the house to grab some stuff for the kids. Did anything happen then?" 

Or does it sound like the OMW is " I can't believe he would put you in that situation. I really miss you and I hope that at some point we can get past this. I love you like a sister." 
I mean this doesn't sound like a confrontation. 

Confrontations are usually short one sided and end up with someone walking out pissed off. At the very least both of them are severely dysfunctional. I would call them both toxic to your marriage. 

I would definitely say YOU need to stay far away from the OMW. I think that if you stick around them you are asking for trouble.


----------



## oneMOreguy

...if there was an emotional component between your wife and the OM...then I could see that any contact between her and the OMW could be a trigger of sorts to bring back those emotional thoughts.

I actually speculate that it was more a flirty, physical, stupid type of thing......and that contact between her and the OMW would probably be a good reminder of just how stupid her decisions can be when she drinks too much.....just a thought. Hope you are doing well overall..........anything like this is draining of both emotional and physical energy.


----------



## Feeling_bad

badbane said:


> No I would recommend that you get away from the both of them. I would start looking for the truth. This whole this is just too neat and tidy for something this bad. Trust me it's bad this is a bad bad thing. This isn't something that should be neat and tidy. That you all sit and talk about. Does it sound like your wife is having a confrontation in there. Does it sound like the OMW is going, "That time when I left the house to grab some stuff for the kids. Did anything happen then?"
> 
> *Or does it sound like the OMW is " I can't believe he would put you in that situation. I really miss you and I hope that at some point we can get past this. I love you like a sister."
> I mean this doesn't sound like a confrontation. *
> 
> Confrontations are usually short one sided and end up with someone walking out pissed off. At the very least both of them are severely dysfunctional. I would call them both toxic to your marriage.
> 
> I would definitely say YOU need to stay far away from the OMW. I think that if you stick around them you are asking for trouble.


The conversation is done. My wife highlighted some things to me, and the conversation sounded more like what is emboldened above. Frankly, I'm shocked. I was prepared for the OMW to ask detailed questions like I've been asking my wife all week...mainly to get to the root cause of the encounter between her husband and my wife, but she asked nothing. 

I got a follow-on text from the OMW asking if I thought she was stupid for talking with my wife. I answered that she wasn't stupid but maybe too forgiving.

As for my wife, she told the OMW she doesn't want to see the OM ever again. The OMW said she understands because that is probably my wish. My wife clarified to her that while that is true, it is not the whole reason why...she told the OMW that even if I divorced her, and whether they reconciled their friendship or not, she still wants to never see the OM again. Also, I told my wife I reserve the right to tell her when she needs to end the relationship with the OMW, if I ever become uncomfortable with it. My wife fully agreed and re-assured me that me and our marriage are her #1 priority, and she will immediately stop talking with the OMW if and when I ask her to.


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## Feeling_bad

I have to confess, I was so happy my wife told the OMW that and gave me the reassurance that fixing this is her #1 priority, I broke down and gave her a hug for the first time this week...

Is that too soon?


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## Complexity

No. While it's understandable that you're hurting, you have to cut her a little slack from time to time. Her recent atoning certainly earned a little affection.


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## seasalt

I agree with working on it. Sometimes to come up with a solution to a problem it's best to be like Hercule Perot and do nothing but observe and think.


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## alte Dame

Just a female perspective on what may be happening with your wife and the OMW:

Years ago, my then-boyfriend decided he wanted to be with one of my best friends. She was sorely tempted and he was an A-one rat. She was with him once, but didn't continue anything. Problem was, I didn't really trust her again, but we were still kind of friends. So what did my instincts make me do? I stayed close to her, saw her every day, even though I didn't trust her and was very pissed at him. We talked girl talk as if nothing happened, but that was far from how I felt inside. I think I was just keeping tabs on her.


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## sammy3

feelingbad, I hope you can get through this... but beware, there so much more ahead.This is now apart of you and she...it changes things ,I hope it’s the good changes you want . 

~sammy


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## Acabado

I think your wife and BW being friends again, after all what transpired is a bad idea. That's my line of thinking. No matter how strong and firm you appear BW is basically a doormat: she already forgave four sexcapades. His WH is a serial cheater, she blames alcohol, she stays once and again. You wife is going to get the wrong idea. In that sense BW is not a "friend of marriage". 
She will also share her struggles with her husband., Again bad idea any window into OM's life.
Honestly I'd discourage that friendship with whatever reason you can gather. Too triggering.. whatever.


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## Feeling_bad

Acabado, I definitely appreciate the input, and will be very mindful going forward. I'm not sure I would have otherwise been aware of these risks. Any hint of concern will be cause for me to have my wife end the friendship. I think I'm lucky to have a wife that understands that particular friendship is now on my terms.


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## Malaise

Feeling_bad said:


> She has. The unfortunate thing though is I heard her today say alcohol makes her husband do stupid things. *This is possibly the 4th time her husband has been unfaithful, and I feel she's rationalizing her husband's behavior based on alcohol*. As we spoke more about this, I told her (right in front of my wife), that if I forgive my wife, there will never be a second chance.
> 
> I really hope the OMW's counselor steers her in the direction to dump this guy.


This bothers me.

If the OMW knew of his past why wasn't she the one to get up and check on them?

She knew that FB's wife got flirty when drinking ( from past experience)

She saw them 'check on the kids" a few times.

Yet she did nothing to head off any possibe encounter.

She left it to FB.

This happens:

1. It goes down as FB discovered 

or 

2. FB is unaware and a full penetration scenario ensues


Either way FB's wife is toast, #1 possible D, #2, D

Why would she let something develop if she knew her H so well and FB W's habits?


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## Feeling_bad

That's a great question. My guess is that the OMW is in absolute denial about her H. When I told her her H confessed to cheating on her twice while deployed, she cried for literally 2 minutes, then was composed and back into our discussion. After what happened to me last week, if I heard something like that about my wife, I would be devastated for much longer than 2 minutes.


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## TBT

Who knows,maybe the OMW cheats herself.


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## Entropy3000

Feeling_bad said:


> Perhaps I need to push the OMW to post on this forum.


I suggest you cut her out of your lives forever. Her being a freinds of your wifes will be a constant reminder of this. And no matter what boundary you think you have here, her presence still brings the OM into your lives. The OMW will be talking about him to your wife and so on. He may drive to your home to pickup your wife. There needs to be NO CONTACT.

She needs to go. Just my opinion. You guys need to heal as a couple.


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## snap

:iagree:

Yes it's not OMW's fault, she is a collateral damage of the affair. Sad, but you have to focus on yourself.


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## warlock07

The whole with OMW rubs me the wrong way. 

Conspiracy theory that is totally unnecessary and might make OP paranoid: "Any chance, the three of them were in a triad and OM and WW cheated on OMW by hooking up without her knowledge ? "

I'm sorry but the OMW reactions are a bit off.


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## Jonesey

warlock07 said:


> *The whole with OMW rubs me the wrong way. *
> 
> Feel the same. hence been saying stay effing way out of them..But sadly Op wont lesson.I personally cant shake the feeling some thing aint right here.Never heard of a woman/man to have a cordial confrontation after a "incident" like this.
> Conspiracy theory that is totally unnecessary and might make OP paranoid: "Any chance, the three of them were in a triad and OM and WW cheated on OMW by hooking up without her knowledge ? "
> 
> I'm sorry but the OMW reactions are a bit off.


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## Feeling_bad

My wife re-decorated the infamous bathroom today. Pretty nice gesture.


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## joe kidd

Feeling_bad said:


> My wife re-decorated the infamous bathroom today. Pretty nice gesture.


That has to help. Having the "spot" in your own house has to be huge trigger.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> My wife re-decorated the infamous bathroom today. Pretty nice gesture.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::smthumbup:


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## happyman64

I think that is great that she did that.

Now go get some hysterical bonding.

Throw the ole girl the bone!!!


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## Acabado

She get it!


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## Feeling_bad

Acabado said:


> She get it!


I think she does. She's been very remorseful all week, she's done everything I've asked and more. She hasn't argued about a single request of mine. She's offered to do things even before I asked for it, i.e., never drinking again, opening up her phone, FB, email, etc (which was never closed off to me anyway), and counseling. She's read "Not Just Friends" and is getting ready to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". She seems sickened by what she's done, and although she shares the blame for cheating, is sickened by the thought of the OM. I've done a lot of interrogating, investigating, and soul searching this week, and truly feel this is the only time my wife has ever strayed in 12 years. While I shutter to think what would have happened had I not caught her when I did, I'm confident there was no EA leading up to this event. She also respects that even if I forgive, it will still take me time to get over what she's done. She has promised to be understanding to that fact for how ever long that takes. Plus she's been doing my laundry all week (a man can get used to that :smthumbup

I've read a lot of stories on this forum, and if folks can find a way to forgive a full-fledged affair, I think my wife deserves a 2nd chance after 12 good years. We're going to our first joint counseling session on Monday. Should be interesting.


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## joe kidd

Feeling_bad said:


> I think she does. She's been very remorseful all week, she's done everything I've asked and more. She hasn't argued about a single request of mine. She's offered to do things even before I asked for it, i.e., never drinking again, opening up her phone, FB, email, etc (which was never closed off to me anyway), and counseling. She's read "Not Just Friends" and is getting ready to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". She seems sickened by what she's done, and although she shares the blame for cheating, is sickened by the thought of the OM. I've done a lot of interrogating, investigating, and soul searching this week, and truly feel this is the only time my wife has ever strayed in 12 years. While I shutter to think what would have happened had I not caught her when I did, I'm confident there was no EA leading up to this event. She also respects that even if I forgive, it will still take me time to get over what she's done. She has promised to be understanding to that fact for how ever long that takes. Plus she's been doing my laundry all week (a man can get used to that :smthumbup
> 
> I've read a lot of stories on this forum, and if folks can find a way to forgive a full-fledged affair, I think my wife deserves a 2nd chance after 12 good years. We're going to our first joint counseling session on Monday. Should be interesting.


Good for you. I truly hope that it all works out for you. Heal on your own time though...don't feel pressured to hurry the process.


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## jh52

Feeling_bad said:


> I think she does. She's been very remorseful all week, she's done everything I've asked and more. She hasn't argued about a single request of mine. She's offered to do things even before I asked for it, i.e., never drinking again, opening up her phone, FB, email, etc (which was never closed off to me anyway), and counseling. She's read "Not Just Friends" and is getting ready to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". She seems sickened by what she's done, and although she shares the blame for cheating, is sickened by the thought of the OM. I've done a lot of interrogating, investigating, and soul searching this week, and truly feel this is the only time my wife has ever strayed in 12 years. While I shutter to think what would have happened had I not caught her when I did, I'm confident there was no EA leading up to this event. She also respects that even if I forgive, it will still take me time to get over what she's done. She has promised to be understanding to that fact for how ever long that takes. Plus she's been doing my laundry all week (a man can get used to that :smthumbup
> 
> I've read a lot of stories on this forum, and if folks can find a way to forgive a full-fledged affair, I think my wife deserves a 2nd chance after 12 good years. We're going to our first joint counseling session on Monday. Should be interesting.


Good luck FB. Wishing you both the best in counseling session Monday. Hope it goes well.


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## here2learn

Feeling_bad said:


> I've read a lot of stories on this forum, and if folks can find a way to forgive a full-fledged affair, I think my wife deserves a 2nd chance after 12 good years. We're going to our first joint counseling session on Monday. Should be interesting.


It sounds like your wife is truly remorseful and is willing to do the heavy lifting to win your trust back. As far as the renewed relationship with the OMW/best friend, I know it bothers a lot of the posters here on this board, but if you're OK with it, that's all that should matter. It is helpful, however, to be mindful of how it could develop into a stumbling block down the road, and I think you've acknowledged that. Great job dealing with all of this mess!


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## Chaparral

Have you read Married Man Sex Life yet?


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## SoxFan

FB: Been following this thread from the beginning and its hard to imagine your life being turned upside down just a little over a week ago and how far you have come in dealing with it all. I couldn't imagine being thrown into what you have had to deal with and it occurring under your own roof. I think you have found a lot a support here by many people with truly good insight and suggestions. I hope the counseling goes well and you can get your family life back where you want it but I know it would take me a lot of time. It seems like your wife is very remorseful and wiling to do what it takes so hopefully things can move in the right direction. It's certainly your call but for what it's worth I think losing contact with OMW would be a better way to go. Best of luck whichever way you go..........


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## Feeling_bad

SoxFan said:


> FB: Been following this thread from the beginning and its hard to imagine your life being turned upside down just a little over a week ago and how far you have come in dealing with it all. I couldn't imagine being thrown into what you have had to deal with and it occurring under your own roof. I think you have found a lot a support here by many people with truly good insight and suggestions. I hope the counseling goes well and you can get your family life back where you want it but I know it would take me a lot of time. It seems like your wife is very remorseful and wiling to do what it takes so hopefully things can move in the right direction. It's certainly your call but for what it's worth I think losing contact with OMW would be a better way to go. Best of luck whichever way you go..........


I appreciate that. This site has been awesome and very helpful. My wife's deep remorse, I think, is speeding the healing process but I'm cautious and I still get mind movies, especially first thing in the morning, and when I go run. While I believe my wife is in shock by what she's done, I still can't get over how she allowed herself to get to that evil place. I'm also upset that even if we get passed this and our marriage strengthens (as I've read often happens following something like this) there will always be this hole in our relationship, and my trust in her will never be at 100% again. It seems weird to me that I would stay in a relationship where I know I'll never completely trust her again, but I guess I'll have to live with that decision. I know there's no way I'll be a doormat, and if she pulls this sh#t again, I'm out.


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## RWB

Feeling_bad said:


> I've read a lot of stories on this forum, and if folks can find a way to forgive a full-fledged affair, I think my wife deserves a 2nd chance after 12 good years. We're going to our first joint counseling session on Monday. Should be interesting.


FB, good to hear you and wife are doing better, R is possible where there is honesty, remorse, and forgiveness. 

When I caught my wife in an PA, the honesty turned out to be 6+ years of serially cheating with 3 OM. All this after 30 years of marriage. My IC gave us a slim chance of ever R do to the magnitude of the betrayal. I weighed D on a daily basis for 1 year. I was a zombie, in a state of shock, numb to life itself. It is a wonder how I kept my job. 3 years post D-Day we are still in R... day by day.

I'm no expert, just someone that's been there. One word to remember... Mercy... in most case never really justified, but none the less a gift we all desperately need.


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## cpacan

Feeling_bad said:


> I appreciate that. This site has been awesome and very helpful. My wife's deep remorse, I think, is speeding the healing process but I'm cautious and I still get mind movies, especially first thing in the morning, and when I go run. While I believe my wife is in shock by what she's done, I still can't get over how she allowed herself to get to that evil place. I'm also upset that even if we get passed this and our marriage strengthens (as I've read often happens following something like this) there will always be this hole in our relationship, and my trust in her will never be at 100% again. It seems weird to me that I would stay in a relationship where I know I'll never completely trust her again, but I guess I'll have to live with that decision. I know there's no way I'll be a doormat, and if she pulls this sh#t again, I'm out.


You might not trust her 100%, but do you think you will trust another woman more?

I think you have just had a lesson of and from life it self.


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## WorkingOnMe

Speculating I wonder if omw is keeping close so that the next time you deploy she and om can swoop in and make your wife their play thing. 

Bottom line, I wouldn't trust her. You need to put your wife on lock down.


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## Acabado

> I'm also upset that even if we get passed this and our marriage strengthens (as I've read often happens following something like this)


 Tho't get the wrong message her. Affairs doesn't make marraige stronger. Not At All. 
Marriages improve due the effort both partners put in to it, with or without infidelity in the mix. What happens is we are funny creatures which love the easy path, go trough the motions, not being always present. It's understandable though. But then something huge like this sure cath our attention.
Recovering from infidelity take effort but also different issues. The difference is the effort with put into it.


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## Feeling_bad

WorkingOnMe said:


> Speculating I wonder if omw is keeping close so that the next time you deploy she and om can swoop in and make your wife their play thing.
> 
> Bottom line, I wouldn't trust her. You need to put your wife on lock down.


Hmmm, I suppose that can be a possibility, but the OMW doesn't strike me as someone like that at all. Also, no real concerns because in this current assignment, the chances of me deploying are virtually nil. Although, if that happened, I think you're right, I would have to definitely cut off the relationship, since I wouldn't be hear to monitor it.

Also, the OMW hasn't committed anything with her husband yet. She is still not even talking to him. While I'm inclined to believe she'll work it out with him again, there is a possibility she's finally had enough of his infidelities.


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## WorkingOnMe

You are probably right. Just remain vigilant.


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## RWB

Feeling_bad said:


> While I believe my wife is in shock by what she's done, I still can't get over how she allowed herself to get to that evil place.
> 
> I'm also upset that even if we get passed this and our marriage strengthens (as I've read often happens following something like this) there will always be this hole in our relationship, and my trust in her will never be at 100% again. It seems weird to me that I would stay in a relationship where I know I'll never completely trust her again, but I guess I'll have to live with that decision.
> 
> I know there's no way I'll be a doormat, and if she pulls this sh#t again, I'm out.


FB,

You have just written the exact reality of my marriage with my fCW. 

I too (3 years in) am still mystified how she fell so far after 25 year of marriage, 2 kids, jobs, house, family, church and all. Cheating in a "good" marriage considering the risks is very telling about a person.

My wife knows full well that I will never trust her fully again. It hurts her, but that was not my choice... it was all hers. Have you expressed this to your wife? She needs to understand that. 

Regarding "if she pulls this sh#t again"... I'm with you... without any doubt.


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## happyman64

And Feeling Bad,

While infidelity is horrible your whole situation could have been a lot worse.

You caught them. You topped them and our wife is remorseful.

A good soldier always trusts his gut. You did.

Thank God you did.

HM64


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## Mitch13

These three books recommended by our MC helped give us a better perspective. Sex at Dawn. Womens Infidelity and Sperm Wars.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoxFan

Feeling_bad said:


> I appreciate that. This site has been awesome and very helpful. My wife's deep remorse, I think, is speeding the healing process but I'm cautious and I still get mind movies, especially first thing in the morning, and when I go run. While I believe my wife is in shock by what she's done, I still can't get over how she allowed herself to get to that evil place. I'm also upset that even if we get passed this and our marriage strengthens (as I've read often happens following something like this) there will always be this hole in our relationship, and my trust in her will never be at 100% again. It seems weird to me that I would stay in a relationship where I know I'll never completely trust her again, but I guess I'll have to live with that decision. I know there's no way I'll be a doormat, and if she pulls this sh#t again, I'm out.


I think, to me anyway, your point about how she let herself get to that evil place is the hardest to still comprehend I still don't know if she ever gave you a reasonable response as to how she could have allowed this whole situation to develop. I agree there will always be this hole now no matter if things get better again, which i hope they do for you. For you and her now there will be a new baseline as to where your relationship is but you will have to move on from here with this new understanding of a zero tolerance policy for all those new boundaries you have set for her.


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## Feeling_bad

So I just read lordmayhem's "The Betrayed Spouse Script" (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html). It's the first I've seen the term Hysterical Bonding. It amazes me that all the feelings and reactions I've had since DDay (10 days ago) have names to it. So in terms of Hysterical Bonding, is this truly a good step towards R? I'm fairly certain my wife and I have experienced that these last couple of days...it seems very confusing that I'd want to have sex with her after what she's done. I think her remorse has facilitated that. Would be interested in some thoughts on this, and if anyone has also experienced it.


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## Acabado

Yeah, very tyoical. The key word is Bonding. Of course is good. Doesn't feel like it?

Keep bonding, man. Like rabbits in heat.


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## Will_Kane

Feeling_bad said:


> So I just read lordmayhem's "The Betrayed Spouse Script" (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html). It's the first I've seen the term Hysterical Bonding. It amazes me that all the feelings and reactions I've had since DDay (10 days ago) have names to it. So in terms of Hysterical Bonding, is this truly a good step towards R? I'm fairly certain my wife and I have experienced that these last couple of days...it seems very confusing that I'd want to have sex with her after what she's done. I think her remorse has facilitated that. Would be interested in some thoughts on this, and if anyone has also experienced it.


It's like make-up sex after an argument. Times 10 or times 100. There may be an aspect of "reclaiming your territory" to it. It's one of the only good things about the affair. Enjoy it while it lasts. It usually doesn't last. As far as the relationship goes, I don't think it's either good or bad. The problems, the doubts, the lost trust, still exist. They don't go away. If anything, the hysterical bonding might make you wonder even more why she did what she did with other man.


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