# WS, please give your perspective



## HealthyMe (Jul 2, 2012)

This question is a follow up to a recent thread about how long it takes before you can go a day without thinking about the betrayal. I think most who responded, if not all, were BS.

So, if you are a WS, how long did it take before you could go a day without thinking about your past infidelity? I guess I am wondering if there is any ruminating on shame and guilt among WS. Or maybe it is just easier to block it out of your mind?

Also, for the WS, do you have a sense for the depth of pain that your BS is experiencing? The descriptions on that thread are indeed heartbreaking. 

I don't think my WH really gets the depth of my pain and how much head space it occupies. I can barely find the right words to describe it. Maybe he does get it, but is too ashamed to initiate discussions about it.

Thanks.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

I dont see HOW a ws can stop thinking about it until the bs does...I am a bs...so sorry, i knoe your looking for ws's


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> I dont see HOW a ws can stop thinking about it until the bs does...I am a bs...so sorry, i knoe your looking for ws's


I would like to hear their thoughts as well. My WW , as does lots of cheaters, has the innate ability to compartmentalize. She doesn't think about it unless I bring it up. She has admitted this in the past as like most she just wants it to go away. Just the same as she was able to hide it and not think about it while she was with me and the kids.


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## IPoH (Jul 31, 2012)

I don't know how long it was after the affairs before I stopped thinking of them. However our Dday was 2 months ago (tomorrow) and I've thought about it every day. I'm here reading everyday, I'm reading books as often as I can as well. Moment and I have been very busy lately and so haven't had as much time to talk about it but I'm still thinking about. Everytime I look at him I'm thinking about how I hurt him, I hate myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

My stbx and I are divorcing...we will remain friends and co-parent our daughter...

I say this with all confidence, i will NEVER EVER be able to look at her again without thinking about what she did...wont have to be a huge trigger or flashback, but I will always see her as the woman who cheated on me and wrecked our family...it wont EVER EVER go away


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> My stbx and I are divorcing...we will remain friends and co-parent our daughter...
> 
> I say this with all confidence, i will NEVER EVER be able to look at her again without thinking about what she did...wont have to be a huge trigger or flashback, but I will always see her as the woman who cheated on me and wrecked our family...it wont EVER EVER go away


Yup. I'm like you - divorcing my ww. The triggers aren't as frequent now, and the hatred is dying down, but that's ALL I see when I look at her.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> This question is a follow up to a recent thread about how long it takes before you can go a day without thinking about the betrayal. I think most who responded, if not all, were BS.
> 
> So, if you are a WS, how long did it take before you could go a day without thinking about your past infidelity? I guess I am wondering if there is any ruminating on shame and guilt among WS. Or maybe it is just easier to block it out of your mind?
> 
> ...


Speaking only for myself, the more involved I am in my family and husband, the less I think about it. It's been over a year since last contact. 

We've come a long way. Twins on the way, date nights, actually TALKING which is so huge for me. He's still struggling with his own addiction which really pushed us apart, but he's been recovering from it. 

When I do think of the EA, I cringe. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything but just because I was so wrapped up in a person who had nothing to do with my well being or my future.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

My partner faced me down about my EAs almost a year ago (not quite d-day as she always knew, just hadn't looked at many actual exchanges), and I still think about it every day. My partner and I did get back together and are in reconciliation. But I still have nightmares and experience pain and a lot of other feelings over cheating and what I did to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Any WS who is HERE on THIS site obviously thinks about it frequently.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

JCD said:


> Any WS who is HERE on THIS site obviously thinks about it frequently.


I'd really love to hear the other side. I'm about to throw in the towel on R and am sick of the constant triggers and "talking" but getting nowhere. I've been in a bit if a bad spot this past week. Feels like I live in Triggerville.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> I'd really love to hear the other side. I'm about to throw in the towel on R and am sick of the constant triggers and "talking" but getting nowhere. I've been in a bit if a bad spot this past week. Feels like I live in Triggerville.


Maybe take a break from TAM. I did for awhile. Sorry you're struggling. Reconciliation is tough. Good luck.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> Maybe take a break from TAM. I did for awhile. Sorry you're struggling. Reconciliation is tough. Good luck.



Yeah, the other stories can stick in your head and make it harder. 

And the snow isn't letting up! So I check in. At least here there are people who get it. 

Thanks Flood, what is with all the very mature posts dude? I'm used to "locker room" flood! You are right a break of some kind is needed.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> Yeah, the other stories can stick in your head and make it harder.
> 
> And the snow isn't letting up! So I check in. At least here there are people who get it.
> 
> Thanks Flood, what is with all the very mature posts dude? I'm used to "locker room" flood! You are right a break of some kind is needed.


Yeah, you can get some triggers on TAM very easily. We are kinda a membership of the one membership no one, ever wants to be a part of. 

And don't worry, I'm still slummin' it up.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> I would like to hear their thoughts as well. My WW , as does lots of cheaters, *has the innate ability to compartmentalize.* She doesn't think about it unless I bring it up. She has admitted this in the past as like most she just wants it to go away. *Just the same as she was able to hide it and not think about it while she was with me and the kids.*


My wife is exactly the same. Outside of MC... she would never broach the topic, unless I initiated... even then it was pretty much a one side conversation. 

I know we have all heard... "I have told you everything... what more is to be gained by going back over this."

In the past few months, a few of our friends ends are dealing with infidelity. She is still very reluctant to discuss... even when it's 3rd party.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

Do you think it's guilt and shame? Do you think it's fear we will leave if we know everything or if we are reminded? Or do you think they don't bring it up because it's not a big deal? I realize all ws are individuals but this question has been eating me up recently. I don't trust my ws to tell the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IPoH (Jul 31, 2012)

I'll admit moment brings it up for discussion a lot more than I do. Generally I don't bring it up because if he isn't thinking about it right then (says he wants to have a good night and not talk about it) I don't want to force it to the front of his thoughts (I realize it's always there in the back).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

So, here's a "part b" to the question:

WS's when you DO think about the A, are you thinking about the AP, and if so, in a positive, negative, nostalgic light; or are you thinking of all the pain and devastation and negative impact on your spouse and how things are never going to be the same?


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

RWB said:


> I know we have all heard... "I have told you everything... what more is to be gained by going back over this."


I don't think that I have ever said anything to this effect to my BH in the last year, nor could I imagine ever doing so. Anything he wants to discuss, ask, revisit, I will always be willing and grateful that he would choose to have a conversation with me, rather than shut me out after what I did.

I think about it every day, but I try to be careful how I bring it up with Matt. I am more apt to ask an open ended question like, "How are you feeling today?" I'm not avoiding, but if he is having a free moment where it's not what's bothering him, I don't want to thrust him back into that place. I want him to know I care, and that I'm here.

When I think about the affair, it's never about the AP directly. It's always about what I did to my family, what I took from my husband and myself, and what I can continue to do to help us heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IPoH (Jul 31, 2012)

I think about how terrible of a person I was, the ap is always negative thoughts, I think about the destruction it has caused my marriage, mostly I think about the incomprehensible amount of pain I have caused Moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

calmwinds said:


> So, here's a "part b" to the question:
> 
> WS's when you DO think about the A, are you thinking about the AP, and if so, in a positive, negative, nostalgic light; or *are you thinking of all the pain and devastation and negative impact on your spouse and how things are never going to be the same?*


YES........ It has been 1 1/2 years since D-Day and the bolded part is exactly how I feel today. If you had asked me 1 1/2 years ago I would have given you a different answer. It wasn't something that changed overnight, it took time. Feelings are not like a water faucet that can be turned on/off. Unless my husband and I are discussing the AP, (which I am loathe to do, but I will never hesitate to discuss with my husband when he needs to) I don't think about the x-AP, I have no desire to. But, still, I remain acutely aware that the lingering effects of my past choices will always be a part of our lives. 

So, when I think of the A, no, I am not thinking of the AP. I'm thinking of the devastation that my choices have caused my family. When I think about the x-AP, because my husband needs to talk about it, all I can do is shake my head, trying in vain to shake him from my memory, say how sorry I am, and wish with a futile desperation that I had never made that choice.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

In all honesty for me its been more than ten years and I still think about it. I honestly don't think that my wife does anymore. I think about it because I'm still actually petrified that I would do the same thing again. I'm scared to death that another weak moment will result in me losing my family. I know I'm lucky to still have them. I think I'm flawed somehow. I don't want to let my wife down again, but in my heart I know that it still remains a possibility. I've done everything I can to put up the appropriate boundaries though.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I know both sides. A mo after D-day I had a revenge EA. 
I know I was wrong to do that, my feelings at the time were " she brought this upon herself, eat every bite.".
All it did was make a bad situation worse, she said it woke her up but leaving would have done the same IMO. 
It makes it all so much harder because you have 2 sets of issues to deal with. To answer the question, no I do not think of the AP. 
I don't pine or wax nostalgic about the horrible thing done.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> This question is a follow up to a recent thread about how long it takes before you can go a day without thinking about the betrayal. I think most who responded, if not all, were BS.
> 
> So, if you are a WS, how long did it take before you could go a day without thinking about your past infidelity? I guess I am wondering if there is any ruminating on shame and guilt among WS. Or maybe it is just easier to block it out of your mind?
> 
> ...


I still think about my own act of betrayal far more than I think about my wife's act of betrayal, as it happens.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> So, if you are a WS, how long did it take before you could go a day without thinking about your past infidelity?


I had an online affair years ago now, boy I think it's been six years, and I still think about it every day...partly because I come here and run my website to help people deal with infidelity, but also partly because I purposely remind myself every day to make the effort to love my Dear Hubby, be loving toward him, and make the changes I need to make to protect us. 



> I guess I am wondering if there is any ruminating on shame and guilt among WS. Or maybe it is just easier to block it out of your mind?


Well, I understand WS's who want to try to "block it out of their mind" but I think they are trying to rugsweep and avoid, rather than facing themselves head on. See, for some people it's is really scary to look at yourself and what YOU have done rather than pointing the finger at someone else or sticking your head in the sand. To my mind, that doesn't FIX anything (including you), so that's not how I operate. 

I don't feel engulfed in shame or guilt on a daily basis, but it's also been years and I have learned that I can use honesty about my story to help others. That helps. On the other hand, when we were first recovering one thing my Dear Hubby did for me for which I will be eternally grateful is that he acted like I did the wrong thing, but that I was still worth something to him. He didn't feel better about himself by grinding me into the dirt or calling me names or shaming me, and he always acted like "Hey I'm not the only one with feelings in this relationship. I know you have them too, and I'm not out to hurt your feelings." We didn't AVOID stuff to avoid hurting feelings, but we didn't go out with the intention of "I'm going to HURT YOU like you hurt me!" That just doesn't build a loving marriage!

So for me, I don't roll around in guilt and shame. I am not proud of what I did but I don't avoid it either, because I want people to see "You CAN stop your affair, start doing the right thing, and rebuild love with your spouse" and they aren't going to see that if I wallow in the past. 



> Also, for the WS, do you have a sense for the depth of pain that your BS is experiencing?


I know because I'm one of the few who was a BS first, and then I still cheated! I think that's why I was able to "see" his face that one day, and see the pain...because I had been there and recognized it. Thank God!

That was also what broke me. I knew that pain, and I don't care if I HATED the man, I couldn't do that to another human being! Plus I didn't hate him. I actually liked him quite a bit and just felt resentful and entitled.



> Do you think it's guilt and shame? Do you think it's fear we will leave if we know everything or if we are reminded? Or do you think they don't bring it up because it's not a big deal?


NONE OF THE ABOVE for me. I am not afraid of my Dear Hubby leaving, even now. As far as I'm concerned, any day could be the day he tells me he loves someone else or just doesn't love me, so I look at each day--one at a time--as if it's the last day I get to be with him before the bomb drops. He can choose any day to go, and he's free to do so. Now, I'd feel EXTREMELY sad, and I'd miss him, but he can go if that's what he has to do. 

I did not tell my Dear Hubby everything all at the same time, but not due to trying to cover things up. Rather it was due to not thinking of things the exact same way as he does, and thus not thinking of the same facts to tell him and he would think to ask. So I'd say he came to learn all the truth over the course of "a short time" as he'd learn some, we'd pause for some time to absorb it, he'd learn some, we'd pause to absorb. 

Now if he had wanted it all at one time, I'm not positive I'd have been able to go there the very first day without some sort of mental breakdown, because on one hand it was a relief to be doing the right thing and being honest--but on the other it was sad to lose people I had cared about...incidental people who knew me and the OM as a couple and who didn't encourage anything but who were like collateral damage (just like all affairs--other people are hurt, not just the spouses and AP's). The first days I was VERY DEEPLY ashamed and going over and over and over it for hours felt like torture. Now I understand that betrayal also feels like torture, but if the goal is to build LOVE it seems to me both parties should stop torturing each other. So what we did was to agree to some "rules" as a couple; we BOTH agreed, not just him forcing it on me. We agreed to set aside one hour a day where he could ask anything he wanted as long as he wanted, and I agreed to be honest in extreme detail. I could endure an hour and he could figure out what was important to him to bring up or ask about. Other times of the day we were allowed to say "can we talk about this another time?" but the rule was that WE to then agree to a time to talk about it--no just "skipping it" or "avoiding". So he was emotionally exhausted, he couldn't just avoid me, and if I was emotionally fragile, I couldn't just skip the conversation--he was OWED it. We'd say "I just can't right now but I can in half an hour. Does that work for you?" and then we'd agree to a time. 



> WS's when you DO think about the A, are you thinking about the AP, and if so, in a positive, negative, nostalgic light; or are you thinking of all the pain and devastation and negative impact on your spouse and how things are never going to be the same?


When I think about my affair I do not think about the AP at all. When I think of my AP, I do not think of him with ill will, or in a negative, repulsed, or disgusted light--I didn't tell my AP I was married so I lied to him and hurt him too. When I think about the A usually I think almost instantaneously of my marriage now, my Dear Hubby now, my life now, how we've grown, what we've learned, and how things are never going to be the same...and THANK GOD they won't be the same because that old way lead to an affair! I don't want that again!!

I want something NEW and BETTER.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> So, here's a "part b" to the question:
> 
> WS's when you DO think about the A, are you thinking about the AP, and if so, in a positive, negative, nostalgic light; or are you thinking of all the pain and devastation and negative impact on your spouse and how things are never going to be the same?


When I think about my EAs, I am experiencing the pain, grief, disturbance, and horror at how I could have hurt my partner that way, and that because of what I did, nothing will ever be the same, and my partner will never trust and love me the same way again. I am that much further away from her heart. Anything that wasn't good before was only made worse by my EAs. Any discussion of the actual APs (which my partner brings up fairly often) brings up negative feelings and disgust at both myself and the thought of the APs. The other night, I had a dream that I started killing them.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> I had an online affair years ago now, boy I think it's been six years, and I still think about it every day...partly because I come here and run my website to help people deal with infidelity, but also partly because I purposely remind myself every day to make the effort to love my Dear Hubby, be loving toward him, and make the changes I need to make to protect us.
> 
> 
> Well, I understand WS's who want to try to "block it out of their mind" but I think they are trying to rugsweep and avoid, rather than facing themselves head on. See, for some people it's is really scary to look at yourself and what YOU have done rather than pointing the finger at someone else or sticking your head in the sand. To my mind, that doesn't FIX anything (including you), so that's not how I operate.
> ...


Wanting new and better is what affairs are built on
Wanting new and better is why the BS should leave 
Hope he can keep giving you new and better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't care what many WS say. I know, for a fact they think of the AP, and mostly it's the good memories of the sex and the "in love" feeling. 

This is coming from someone who was the OM many, many times. Back in 2011 I think it was, I got a "anonymous" email from one of the wives I had an affair with when I was 22/23, bout 12/13 years ago or so. The affair was short, think about 3 maybe 4 months, anyway's the email was of her thinking of me and remember all the "good times"- tons of very "passionate" "love making" we had. She wished me all the best with my wife, lol, but I remember at the end she said, I could "look her up" if I ever wanted to "talk". 

I told my ex about the email. I guess, unlike her, I was an open book. Probably to open for my own good. 

They think about their AP, and mostly it's the times they shared and mostly it's of good, sexy, happy memories-hence why affairs are so addictive.

The woman has been married to her hubby I think since 94'. They "reconciled" I guess. She was not the only one like this. 

I would actually think it would be almost void of any emotion or empathy for one to not think about their AP with at the very least, contempt and sadness, let alone a type of "love", now many times if not most, it's not as strong as the "love" a women feels from a long term relationship with her husband and father of her children. But I think most WS, view the affair relationship with many good memories. I think they remember it the same. 

Not to say that WS cannot have remorse. No, no. In fact I think it's with that acceptance that the WS can have remorse. 

But they remember. All of it. And mostly it's good memories. The only bad was probably d-day, the break up, and maybe. Maybe. Hiding it from their spouse. But again that's part of the rush and "fun" of an affair. Any honest cheater, lol or OW or OM will tell you this. The rest is just deflection- what people who cheat on their spouse are really, really good at.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Just like falling in love with others in the past, that wonderful feeling that the ww felt is what kept them going, what drove them apart from their spouse, it made them feel so good, so excited... They will always remember that they got to feel that again... 

~sammy


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

For every former wayward who says they don't wallow in "happy" memories of APs, there are plenty of BSs who claim that they "know" how ALL former waywards feel and how we relish memories of the AP no matter what any of us as individuals say. Don't know what point there is in any former wayward posting on TAM if that's the case. Whatever brief, shallow enjoyment a WS received from the AP's attention is transmuted into the opposite and more once (if) the wayward wakes up and fully realizes the damage they've done to their partner/spouse and the relationship/marriage. What's to think fondly on in the middle of all that destruction??

I used to wish that my partner would show that level of interest and emotionality towards me. That's what I really wanted more than anything. But...it's not to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> For every former wayward who says they don't wallow in "happy" memories of APs, there are plenty of BSs who claim that they "know" how ALL former waywards feel and how we relish memories of the AP no matter what any of us as individuals say. Don't know what point there is in any former wayward posting on TAM if that's the case. Whatever brief, shallow enjoyment a WS received from the AP's attention is transmuted into the opposite and more once (if) the wayward wakes up and fully realizes the damage they've done to their partner/spouse and the relationship/marriage. What's to think fondly on in the middle of all that destruction??
> 
> I used to wish that my partner would show that level of interest and emotionality towards me. That's what I really wanted more than anything. But...it's not to be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't claim to "know" anything about how my stbxww feels. She demonstrated, very clearly, that I don't know anything about her at all. What she's capable of, what she feels, what she thinks...it was all a lie. That's the only thing BS's know about their WS - is that everything we thought we knew about them was a lie.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

If the ws is putting all their attention into the ap or themselves, then of course the bs stops investing their affection into the relationship.

If you're dissatisfied with your partner, then demonstrate the change you want in the relationship. If you're not getting everything you want out of a relationship, then ask if you're putting your whole self into it. I hope this makes sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Wanting new and better is what affairs are built on
> Wanting new and better is why the BS should leave
> Hope he can keep giving you new and better
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope you don't mind if I reply to this post, but in the spirit of also replying to the OP who had questions about what WS's honestly think and feel. 

I do not now nor ever want my Dear Hubby to give me "new and better" nor do I expect him to "make me feel" anything at all! I decide what I do and do not feel about anything--including him and our marriage and myself--so if I want to feel "in love" with him, the responsibility is mine...not his. 

I want something "new" meaning that if I just returned to "the way it was" well that lead to an affair. That is a non-viable relationship model. So I would aim for a relationship model that was different than the way it was before, and thus it would be a new marriage. Furthermore, I am the one who has to change, not him. Well....that's not altogether true. We are both humans and both of us could always learn and grow and become better lovers and spouses. But I can't control him at all! So the one I'm responsible to make new is me. I have to be new. I can't think like the old me about marriage, family, love, falling in love, feelings, thoughts, none of it. I have to be new. So in my head the "newness" is not something he has some pressure to give me--if anything it's internal pressure on myself to never, ever again be the way I was and to be vigilant. Plus, there's no reason not to improve! Why be "the old me" when I can be a new and improved model ? 

Same goes for "better." If my goal were to have a marriage that hurts him and hurts me, then I might aim at "being the way it used to be" because that's where it lead us. And I will bet you dollars to donuts he had the opportunity to unfaithful same as me, and I bet he was tempted because our marriage was stale and we had both become complacent. Yes, for it to be a successful reconciliation we BOTH have to change--but what so many people get stuck in is "making their spouse be different" when in real life you can not make your spouse do JACK SQUAT. The only person you can ever control is yourself, so for me, that means I need to look at myself and do better. I have to be a better wife. How do I do that? I study about marriages. I study about relationships. I study about men. I study my specific husband. I try out some of what I've learned. It feels unnatural and "weird" but I try again. I make an adjustment and do it again only better. I make the effort to do MY part (let him worry about his part). I try the occasional new thing. I make the effort to let him know me. I make the effort to be see through. I close my eyes and hold my breath and tell him the truth..and see what happens.

And you know why I think our reconciliation has been a success? I believe he does similar stuff on his side. He looks at himself and wants to be new and better too. He takes care of evaluating himself and trying to make the effort. I see him trying. AND when I do take a deep breath and tell him the real truth so that he can see the real me, he doesn't yell and scream and become emotionally abusive. I know I am SAFE to tell him the real truth and he won't hurt me when I'm vulnerable. And I am also the exact same safety for him...when he's open and shows me his worries and wounds I am his SAFE place. 

Now, for thinking about the AP I can tell you the God's honest truth: I haven't thought about him in a long time because that is not where my mind is. Am I completely happy right now? No I am not because my Dear Hubby is extremely ill and it is hard on me. I work hard; I care for him; I do the chores of two; and I'm afraid he'll die. But within the limits of his health am I happy? You betcha! I actually like the man and love the man. I respect him for how hard he tries, and how funny he is in the face of some pretty scary stuff, and how kind and thoughtful he is, and my thoughts are on HIM and HIS HEALTH and HIS FEELINGS and HIS THOUGHTS--and on US and times we spend together and our children and our home and the holidays and enjoying HIM. If my thoughts are busy on those things, I'm not sitting there missing my AP. Even now as soon as I'm done writing here, I'll be joining Dear Hubby in playing a little WOW, probably doing some WinterVeil goofing around, and holding his hand!

I think the lady who wrote back to her AP after years (or whatever) probably didn't do the work to become NEW herself. Maybe she hoped her husband would change and when he didn't she went right back to being miserable--and she never even realized that the person who had to change was HER!! When I person thinks back on their AP like that, they haven't built a new, strong, better, loving marriage--they just went back to "the way it was." PFFFFT!!! I have no reason to think back like that--I HAVE the man I love and I built the relationship I want to be in!


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

looking for clarity said:


> If the ws is putting all their attention into the ap or themselves, then of course the bs stops investing their affection into the relationship.
> 
> If you're dissatisfied with your partner, then demonstrate the change you want in the relationship. If you're not getting everything you want out of a relationship, then ask if you're putting your whole self into it. I hope this makes sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What about when the FWS is 100% in, focused on the BS, and has been working hard to fix problems and demonstrate the changes needed/wanted? Sometimes the BS turns out to be the one unwilling to do the work needed. I really hope that's not the case in my situation. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

looking for clarity said:


> Do you think it's guilt and shame? Do you think it's fear we will leave if we know everything or if we are reminded? Or do you think they don't bring it up because it's not a big deal? I realize all ws are individuals but this question has been eating me up recently. I don't trust my ws to tell the truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can only speak for myself, The guilt and shame are the hardest for me, I come on here everyday and read the BS stories and I sit and cry, not just for what I did but for how so many people are hurting, How could I do something so against my very nature and upbringing, then I wonder how some of these WS don't feel bad about the hurt and pain they are causing, I find myself having so much empathy for the BS. 

I don't like to talk about what I did with my BS. I have no problem discussing everything, although I cry the whole time, it's every conversation we have (almost daily) he flips out, its not about my actually having sex the one time with a person I didn't know, its everything that leads back to how could I be so selfish? he asks for answers then gets upset with the answer I give.

There is no way for me to say what I was feeling without it upsetting him and sounding like I'm justifying what I did.

I'm a 110% at fault for what I did and 50% at fault for not working even harder to fix the marriage. I promised him I would leave if I got to the point of cheating and I didn't keep true to my word. 

Not only because I didn't want to break-up our family, its worst.

I felt like I was abandoning him, like his family and friends have done and I could not image what that would do to him the one person who should stand by him no matter what he has done or not done, would walk out on him too.

I think I convinced myself that somehow getting my needs met were better, believe me I know that sounds twisted.

its been 2.5 years and I still do what ever he asks, I only go to work by myself and even then I'm on the phone with him the entire time, I know are old marriage is dead, I just don't see how we both can continue to live the way we are. 

50% of the time I think we are getting better and I let my self believe it and that's when the biggest fights happen.

sorry for rambling on.


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## kaboom9328 (Dec 17, 2013)

Because I have been on both sides of the coin I will briefly chime in here

I do not think of my former AP. It has been many years however since my A. When I did think of her it was not with contempt, nor anger it was more like frustration that I allowed myself to be an idiot , immoral and naive. I did not think of the sex or the things many might believe. The guilt overwhelmed anything else, if that makes any sense

I am currently on the other side of the country however so I definitely know where the mind goes and I do understand


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

EI said:


> YES........ It has been 1 1/2 years since D-Day and the bolded part is exactly how I feel today. If you had asked me 1 1/2 years ago I would have given you a different answer. It wasn't something that changed overnight, it took time. Feelings are not like a water faucet that can be turned on/off. Unless my husband and I are discussing the AP, (which I am loathe to do, but I will never hesitate to discuss with my husband when he needs to) I don't think about the x-AP, I have no desire to. But, still, I remain acutely aware that the lingering effects of my past choices will always be a part of our lives.
> 
> So, when I think of the A, no, I am not thinking of the AP. I'm thinking of the devastation that my choices have caused my family. When I think about the x-AP, because my husband needs to talk about it, all I can do is shake my head, trying in vain to shake him from my memory, say how sorry I am, and wish with a futile desperation that I had never made that choice.


Too often we treat AP like trash. In your case, EI, I remember the AP is a decent man. He did something good to you and your family. He did give you good times during that hard period for you. How come the memory of him is all linked to negative? Your affair also helped to snap your husband into reality, and in some way, help your old marriage to morph into a current new one. Why you not be grateful to him and say goodbye to him in a positive mood? EI, you are a nice and kind person. Why do you want to paint him in such a heartbreaking way? Do you think it is fair to him?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

loveisforever said:


> Too often we treat AP like trash. In your case, EI, I remember the AP is a decent man. He did something good to you and your family. He did give you good times during that hard period for you. How come the memory of him is all linked to negative? Your affair also helped to snap your husband into reality, and in some way, help your old marriage to morph into a current new one. Why you not be grateful to him and say goodbye to him in a positive mood? EI, you are a nice and kind person. Why do you want to paint him in such a heartbreaking way? Do you think it is fair to him?


Obviously I'm not EI, but I can speak from my own perspective on this. Whether an AP did good things for a wayward or not... They are linked to the pain, shame, and wrongness of the wayward's choices, and the crushing of their betrayed, the person they promised to love, honor, and protect above all others. They're connected. I'm not sure there's a way to separate them, at least not for some of us. I doubt she could ever be grateful for something that devastated B1. What ultimately helped their marriage was what they decided to do about the crisis of the A and how they handled the creation of their new, current marriage. 

As for it somehow being unfair to the AP...he made his choices, too, and there is plenty of unfairness to go around. I don't feel any of us remorseful waywards should or even could worry about the AP. We are too focused on those we betrayed, trying to help them heal, and creating a new relationship/marriage. Too much thought and emotion were already wasted on the AP and stolen from those we betrayed. Isn't that bad enough?

EI, sorry if I spoke out of turn. Not trying to speak for you or anything.


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