# wife + girlfriend = help?!



## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

hello, 

this is kind of a long story so i will try to keep it as concise as i can.

i have been married to my wife for 5 years now. we have an open marriage (in terms of, we can openly discuss anything with each other, including if either of us ever felt like we needed a break from each other, see other people, change things up, get divorced, move to tibet and become buddhist monks, etc.)

we do not have a conventional marriage by any stretch of the imagination... so please, i am looking for some progressive female thinkers here and not the typical, 'youre a pig! cant men think without their ***!?' advice

not that i think thats typical of women's advice 

so, moving on... 

i am 28 and my wife is 46. we love each other like crazy. she had been married previously (with 2 children) and going into this relationship (marriage), she always told me that she was well aware of my considerably younger age and if anything ever changed with my life after our marriage, like if i ever wanted to have kids in the future (i currently dont) or if i needed to 'spice things up' and date other women, that as long as i was open with her about it, everything was open for discussion... this stuff came out of her mouth, not mine.

i knew going into the marriage that she was quite progressive and different from your average woman and i had to really take this into consideration before moving forward with her because as easily as i could say 'hey honey, i wanna date other women', she could also do the same. i thought the trade off for being with her was well worth the possibility of that conversation happening one day.

so anyways, fast forward 5 years into our wonderful and exciting marriage... i had to leave the country on an assignment (long term) and we had a discussion about the 'freedom to date others' while i was away... i brushed it of and didnt think anything of it because i am a monogamous guy and never felt the need for other women because my wife fulfills my every want and need.

right before i left for the airport, my wife said 'just go out and have fun while youre away... if you meet anyone or wanna date, just do it. you can tell me about it or dont tell me, its up to you'

so... (insert drum roll please)

about a month after leaving my wife, one night, i meet a girl at a club and we hit it off. start seeing each other. at first it was no big deal because it wasnt serious, i was just dating another person just the way my wife always said would be cool... i didnt ask about the girl's life and the other girl never asked about my life (if i had a girlfriend, wife, anything) so i never said anything. no biggie, right?

now a few months have gone by since meeting this 'other girl' and i've been seeing her a lot and i think i'm starting to get some deep feelings for her and my morals are starting to get all messed up and i dont know how to get myself out of this mess.

this whole situation is really out of character for me. i love my wife. with all my heart. we have everything in common. dreams goals, etc. but this other younger girl is so sweet and innocent and different than my wife that i am starting to feel a strong attraction towards her too... like the kind of attraction that makes me start contemplating the children (that i could never have with my wife) and a different sort of future than the one i had envisioned with my wife. what makes it difficult is that because its so early in the relationship, i dont know really how serious the other girl is and my decision to tell either my wife or the girl of the other's existance gets into this murky grey area. my wife always said to me that she would never be selfish enough not to let me go if things changed or if i ever wanted children or if i had to leave the relationship for any other significant personal reason.

anyways, i havent told either about the other and i dont want to hurt either of them, but as time goes on, the amount they will be hurt by my news becomes greater (at least, i think)... its really all my fault. my willingness to be open and progressive with my wife has led me down a dark path that i had no business being down and i dont know what to do.

i dont have to tell my wife whats going on here (thats what she told me) but my instincts tell me to sit down with my wife and tell her whats going on and then see what she says and ask her for advice... then see if she will let me continue _*either*_ relationship...

problem is, i have this feeling that no matter what she says about being open and unselfish, subconsciously, i dont think our marriage will ever be the same after i tell her, am i right?

and if i try to tell the other girl whats going on with my 'open marriage' or my wife's policy towards my future or anything else, she will definitely be hurt and that will probably be the end of that relationship as well. 

if i end up hurting either, i would never forgive myself and would definitely feel like a class 'A' moron (which i am)

so ladies, i need your brains for this one... what should i do? 

any advice for me would be much much appreciated.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

How would you feel if your wife got another "boyfriend" and you had to share her time when you got back? or if you found out that she offered you these things before you left because she was going to use them too?

I think you owe someone an explaination, but you have to choose who or both of them. If you really think the wife wouldn't mind then why the secrets? As far as the GF goes she is the one most cheated here.

draconis


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## anotheryear (Jul 23, 2008)

I think your gut is telling you this isn't going to work for the kind of person you are. So listen to it.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

thanks for the responses... 

to answer your question draconis, both myself and wife always agreed that happiness doesnt necessarily mean happily ever after being with the same person in the same capacity forever... so if my wife decided that what would make her happy was to have another 'boyfriend' then we would talk about it... it doesnt mean i would be happy about it myself, but then again, who am i to deny my wife her happiness?

life is full of unexpected things. death. illness. life changes. so its very unrealistic to 'expect' to be with the same person living happily ever after forever even though its a wonderful ideal to look forward to.

i love my wife and always will. she is my soulmate, and as for the keeping secret part, i dont think its a secret or intend on keeping this a secret because its not in my character, its just a matter of timing... i think how and when you bring this topic up is very important.

and thats what i need advice on... the how and when...

i could call her up from across the world and leave it all up to her imagination what is going on or i can wait and speak to her face to face when i get back in another month. the dilemma is deciding on what to do... just tell both wife and gf right away or wait for the right time or maybe do something else...?

i thought maybe i could get a woman's perspective on how i should handle this... or maybe there is somebody here who has had a similar situation (feelings for two women/men) theyve had to deal with that i can learn from...

my heart is literally tearing apart here... how the hell did i let this happen? ah!


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

and yes draconis, i agree, the gf is definitely the cheated one here... whether i tell her now or later, the damage is already done i think. its not meant as an excuse, but the gf is also a long distance relationship in another ccity so the chances of it blossoming into something 'serious serious', is also a long shot. unless we both decide to make more life changes to accommodate each other.

either way, i know its probably not the 'right' thing to do but my instincts are telling me to not hurt her and say anything for now, wait till i talk to my wife and see what happens after that... 

even if none of this feels right or sits well with me for the time being, its better than just jumping in and spilling the bean to both parties at once and then start my descent into the cavernous abyss of hurt and pain.

i donno, maybe this is just another bad idea waiting to happen...


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## anotheryear (Jul 23, 2008)

Seems like the sooner you are honest, the more reason she'll have to trust you in the future and the less hurt she will be...speaking particularly of the girlfriend. She has a right to know from the beginning while the wife already gave you permission so there is more justification for waiting. Without honesty you really don't have a relationship. The longer you wait, the bigger your problem will be.


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## anotheryear (Jul 23, 2008)

And you might read "His Needs, Her Needs" as it talks about how the spouse and the girlfriend might both be meeting different needs...so it might explain why you can feel so attached to both. It might give you a basis for the discussion with both women...explaining why you want them both.

(And I say this with the disclaimer that I personally think this situation is bad for all of you.)


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

i think youre right anotheryear.

i need to be honest with both and i have an opportunity to do that within the next 3-4 weeks when i see them both face to face... on different occasions 

its just how to go about it all. start with the wife or the gf...? 

logic says wife cause she's most important. she's also the one that would be most understanding and accommodating and wiser of the two... and can maybe help me/us work through this. she's been there for me through personal weirdness before so i have faith i this converstaion as well.

or.. i can start the conversation/fireworks/royal rumble with gf because she will probably be the most shocked and react the most unpredictably (she's half my wifes age)... if she is ok with having fun and still being with me as friends or part-time lovers or open marriage and all, then its cool for now and i can reset myself to still talk to my wife about things rationally and not out of panic.

but if gf isnt cool with me and leaves, at least i know where i'm at 100% before learning my lesson, sitting down with my wife and telling her everything thats been going on since she gave me the 'green light' to go date others.

should be fun!


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

your only young. given your wifes - no limit boundaries, which man in their right mind wouldnt take what you have taken. 
no matter where you are, you wil always think something is nice, something is awful. you wil usually take to one person over another. its just how u react to it. 
you might not really have known what your wifes intentions on life were, when it came to an "open marriage" - again thats just where your youngness comes in and her desires for life again "open marriage"
unfortunately now you have just got yourself into the "open marriage" and as you know your having all the thoughts of what is real or unreal for you as an individual.
i do agree that the girlfriend is the one most cheated here. if you decide to open up to your wife then she must take some responsibilty for your actions. this is not a 50/50 situation.


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## anotheryear (Jul 23, 2008)

I'd start with the girlfriend because then you know what you have to tell the wife...it is over or it's not with the girl (I'm assuming you aren't considering leaving your wife even if the girl gives you a "me or her" ultimatum).

On the wife--I think if I were in her shoes (I'm 42) and dating/marrying a younger man, I'd feel a lot of guilt about what I was taking from him--the opportunity for kids or just to be with someone younger. So I could see that being a reason for being open with letting you find someone else. But underneath, I think it would still really hurt if he acted on it. I'd be hoping he wouldn't. I could be wrong. Maybe she is just REALLY secure or sees relationships that way. But I'd watch closely for any hidden hurt reaction over it.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

anotheryear, justean, thanks guys... 

i think you both made some good points and yah, i think that my wife is a little bit insecure about the whole situation (me being younger, the kids) but i always tried to support her in that way... the only thing that kept on coming up was this 'open marriage' policy... which i think comes back to her insecurity about me staying with her long term or running off cause i want kids.

its like saying 'i love you and want to be monogamous and want to be with you forever... but... if you decide to have kids or go date others, then bye bye, have fun!'

i cant remember who wrote this on some forum but i had to make a note of it because its something i've been thinking about a lot lately...

heres the qutoe: 
Being married has little to do with the law, wedding or other external stuff. You're married when you feel and act married.

i dont think we ever acted married since we met... which is great because we have a lot of fun and arent like other typical married couples we know (boring, tired), but when it comes to acting on the invitation to date and meeting other girls, now i'm in a situation where i'm meeting girls that are 'marriage material' yet i am married to somebody who is not... even though in every possible other way, my wife is everything i've ever wanted in a woman and more.

try figuring that one out.

....life is weird for me right now, what can i say


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

you have said your side. but what is her side to this story ( through you)
ok she has given you the open marriage.
but when was the last time she did n e thing with n e one in this open marriage.
that could give you the indication of her needs.
e.g say the last time she went with someone was 6 months ago.
then obviously its not all the time. 
have her feelings changed regarding this open marriage.
does it need to continue or say goodbye to that past and move on together. 
after all your wife is all you could ever ask for and more.
grass is not greener.
i think you both need to talk and re evaluate your needs from eachother. if she asks you why. and this wil help with her insecureness - tell her you ask because you dont want to share her n e more.


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## Mrs. Negestie (Jul 15, 2008)

I just think that you should go ahead and be honest it has been a choice that you made no one but God can judge Right or wrong but the longer you keep the secret the harder it will hurt anyone that will be hurt.Thats why open relationships dont always work because somewhere deep down inside its always hard to be absolutly open.( I am female by the way).


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

yah, i do think i have to start with the honesty part, but as for trying to get to the bottom of the why's and figuring out the how's of a conversation with both my wife and gf its getting more and more complicated to the point where i just get lost in it all.

i keep going from the 'ok, i'm just gonna say how i feel' to 'wait, i dont know what to say' flip-flop. it seems like the more i think about it, the harder it gets to try to try to verbalize everything or even pick a logical starting point for the conversation.

i really really wasnt expecting this 'open marriage' concept to be so complicated... i mean, if its open, then it should be completely open... right now, this doesnt feel very open to me at all and maybe i'm just not thinking about it the right way or not ready for it in the way i thought i would be. i mean, in terms of me and my wife i shouldnt be feeling guilt about acting on an open invitation from my wife, but i do.

if my wife wants an open marriage, gives me permission to date, tells me that i can use my best judgement in telling her or not telling her about whats going on with me and a gf, it should not (in theory) be this difficult no navigate this whole situation. well, aside from the fact that i kind of missed the ball in telling the gf about my marriage, but thats not really something that my wife should be worried about or needs to know about anyways... or does she?

anyways, i do agree that i need to be open with the gf and really get to the bottom of my wife's side about this whole open marriage thing (without telling her about the gf, yet)... i'm just afraid that if i go ahead an be completely open and honest and give any specifics about the gf to my wife (her age, where we went, what we did) when/if she asks, that there will *always* either be jealousy or resentment on her end (or weirdness on my end) creeping into the relationship... it may not, but i'm willing to bet it will... even if its on some low level. 

after what i've been going through this whole situtaion, i just cant believe now that a woman/man can be 100% not affected by their marriage partners being with another person (call me crazy) and once theres a third party introduced into a relationship, the relationship between the first two members will always different from that point on. right now its all on my side and if this early long distance relationship with the girlfriend just fizzles out and goes nowhere, then will it have been worth all of the drama caused by getting into the specifics of me and the gf with my wife?

i just dont know...

...being chronically indecisive doesnt help this situation either

:scratchhead:


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## Triton (Jul 8, 2008)

I say let her have it . I mean you all are adults , and have run the scenario before-so put it to test.:rofl:


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

This is an example of the complications of these "open" situations. Sounds all good but the headaches are numerous.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 22, 2008)

its been a while since i've been on here but i thought there would be some value in telling everybody what ended up happening with my situation...

basically, i was preparing to have a face-to-face with my girlfriend first and wife second but before i got the chance to do the face-to-face with the girlfriend, she jumped in and informed me that some other guy 'from her past' was reintroduced back into her life (not sexually, just in conversations) when we were seeing each other and that he was willing to break up with his 'current girlfriend' for her... she had feelings for him in the past but never acted on it since he was in that same relationship but not willing to give it up just yet... so needless to say, we mutually broke off our relationship before i even got the chance to say anything about my 'open relationship' and being married... we're still friends and i will tell her when the time is right... but with no hard feelings or regrets, i'm sure...

moving on...

shortly after that, i got the chance to have the face-to-face with my wife and i was honest about everything with her... told her everything that happened. why i did it, contemplating having kids someday, etc. and promised her that i would be completely open and honest with her in the future... it was a very long conversation and we're still trying to work through it... its been really hard on both of us (more for her) emotionally... she means everything to me and i would want to have a child with her more than anything but we cant... she cant... and thats where i have to make a big decision... stay with her or pursue somebody with which i can have a child... the problem is, i cant stay in a marriage and pursue other women (getting back to my issue with non-monogamy) so i would have to separate from my wife in terms of where we stand with each other and dating other people. i would stay committed to all of our responsibilities together (house, finances, emotional support, etc) but we would act as single entities when it came to dating others... its probably the hardest decision i have ever been confronted with but we made an agreement that we would keep the open relationship for me to 'figure myself out' and if i did find somebody with which i wanted to have a child with, that my wife would allow me to dissolve our marriage and would be a part of my life as well as the child's...

any girl that i ultimately wanted to have kids with would be aware of what my situation was and be cool enough to understand that i have a very important person in my life that i am not willing to give up... my wife is my soulmate and business partner and creative outlet... and whether or not we dissolve the marriage or whatever, she will always be a dear friend of mine and there would never be any question as to my commitment to both my new partner/child and my friendship with my current wife...

that much me and my wife agreed on...

so thats that.

we'll see what happens in the future... if i dont find somebody or after doing my soul searching decide i really dont want to have kids (i'm not sure yet) then we can always sit down and talk about what happened, learn from it and even reunite 100% after that...

aside from that, i know its been a while but thanks again to all that posted advice... it really helped put things in perspective for me...


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