# I can't believe I'm here....



## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

For some reason my gut gave me a feeling that something was going on in my wife's phone.

I open up the home screen and there's this "kik" app which has been known to hide cheaters. So I open it and first thing it goes to is this POS named Curtis. They go back and forth with how wonderful they both are and how they can't be kissing because certain people will be there.

I flipped sh!t. I made copies of the tax returns and left a message with my lawyer to get something going on Monday. I want her a## served immediately.

To add fuel to my anger this was all because I didn't care enough and blah blah........its the narcissistic supply from the new guy that she just craves.

Anyway if anyone could help give advice on frying her goose, and what I need to do as far as my home goes, documents, etc....we have a 1 year old daughter and I already said I''m going full custody lock stock and barrel. 

For now I left her with the instructions that everything will need to go through my attorney and I have zero desire to have any conversation with her.

As always, any of you who have lived this hell, I'm all open to advice.

Thanks.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I understand your anger, but you need to understand reality. This is a woman that will be in your life for 17 more years. Unless she has been abusive/neglectful, and you have irrefutable proof, chances are that you will not get full custody and will waste a boatload of $$ in legal fees trying. $$ that would be much better spent providing for your child's present and future needs. Remember, you screw your STBX over and you're also effectively screwing your baby over.

If you want to fvck her over, personally, leaving is enough. Be cool and businesslike. Discuss only your child. Refer her to your lawyer for everything else.


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## pappygrecko (Mar 5, 2016)

Its necessary for you to act quick it shows u arent joking around and it removes any ideas of blame shifting if she wants to save the marriage 
Dont think much into the future think now 
Also separate your accounts
Good luck i hope you fair well after this betrayal remember it is not the end of the world
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## btterflykisses (Apr 29, 2016)

I don't know anything about divorce or lawyers in the US as I'm a foreigner. I do know that you have a one year old daughter and she has to be your priority.

Has she been a good mother and is your baby healthy and reached the correct milestones for her age?

They obviously have met in person. I would try and save the marriage if nothing Physical has taken place. My husband had a woman all over him for years just before and after the birth of our last daughter. She was an absolute nightmare. We got past it. I had to forgive him allowing her into our lives. I can't even go into how bad she wanted to steal not only my family but my kids.We already had two children.

You will not get sole custody so GET HIM OUT OF HER LIFE AND OUT OF YOUR FAMILY!!!!!

Take legal advice too but make sure he is not near your child.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

It is good that you contacted your lawyer but you should also Expose her to your close friends and Family.
Get DNA and STD test. I know you are going to say she is my Daughter,but this is to show your wife that you lost all trust in her.
Dont move from the House and dont sleep with her. 

Your wife is already using excuses for her Affair and she is blaming you. She is the only one to blame,not you my friend. 

Think of your Daughter and dont do anything stupid.

Stay strong.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

As was stated before, two things that are important to know. It will be very hard to gain full custody. It suck, but it is what it is. Second, it's verybhard dealing with someone you are trying to constantly **** over when dealing with a child.

Best best, cool down, do the necessary steps. Doesn't look like you want to reconcile, which is fine. In my first divorce, I played the fair card. I told her; we have two young boys, if you want to try to have a happy life with them and me for the next 17 years, don't fight me on what is fair. It disn't work out perfectly, but we have been amicable and it is so much better than how my wife and her ex-husband are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Once this bs with other men starts, it never gets better. I admire you for going straight to your lawyer and getting the ball rolling. Regardless of who is at fault, once a woman gets feelings for another guy, what she has for you is ancient history.
Don't let her steal your dignity. Do what your lawyer says and avoid communication with her as much as possible. It will only hurt you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Good for you for not dragging it out, and getting things handled quickly and making her go through your lawyer with anything this will prevent the he said blah blah.

Stay strong we are all here for you to help you get through it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Looking at some of your other threads, it's easy to see that this is long overdue. (And, actually, I'm surprised that you relented on the kid thing.)

Whatever happens, DO NOT STOP the divorce this time. Understand that you're not likely to get everything that you want, but push for it either way.

Oh, and get a VAR, and keep it on your person at all times. She starts talking, you pull out the VAR and start recording. She calls, you pull out the VAR and start recording. She melts down and takes off on an epic rant, you pull out the VAR and... well, you get the idea.

Seriously, man... SHE BLOCKED YOU on social media? That should've been when you filed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Anyway if anyone could help give advice on frying her goose, and what I need to do as far as my home goes, documents, etc....we have a 1 year old daughter and I already said I''m going full custody lock stock and barrel.
> 
> As always, any of you who have lived this hell, I'm all open to advice.
> 
> Thanks.


You want advice? Be realistic.

The odds are astronomically small that you'll get custody of your daughter.

The most likely scenario is that you'll see your daughter every other weekend and once mid week, your wife will live in the house with your daughter and her affair partner, he'll be cutting the grass using your lawn mower that he'll be keeping in what his now his shed, and you'll be paying through the nose in alimony and child support with just enough left over to prepare meals for yourself in your small apartment or in a friends or relatives kitchen.

Sorry but that's what usually happens in this type of situation.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm moving all my stuff to another bedroom this morning while she's at work. I made copies of all the tax returns last night and left her a copy on the table so she's knows I'm not screwing around. 

I have a hard time believing that anything I did constitutes having a back up plan. But the FOG helps them justify anything. I'm pretty angry which is healthy and it gets stuff done. I'm sure her family will find out soon enough what's going on. I believe they have my number as well. Her mother did this same exact thing to her father so I have a feeling he knows what she's capable of.

Other than waiting to visit the lawyer (hopefully Monday) is there anything else I need to do?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Once this bs with other men starts, it never gets better. I admire you for going straight to your lawyer and getting the ball rolling. Regardless of who is at fault, once a woman gets feelings for another guy, what she has for you is ancient history.
> Don't let her steal your dignity. Do what your lawyer says and avoid communication with her as much as possible. It will only hurt you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with the first paragraph. 

Regarding the second paragraph, nobody steals your dignity. However, one can give it away.

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I'm moving all my stuff to another bedroom this morning while she's at work. I made copies of all the tax returns last night and left her a copy on the table so she's knows I'm not screwing around.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that anything I did constitutes having a back up plan. But the FOG helps them justify anything. I'm pretty angry which is healthy and it gets stuff done. I'm sure her family will find out soon enough what's going on. I believe they have my number as well. Her mother did this same exact thing to her father so I have a feeling he knows what she's capable of.
> 
> Other than waiting to visit the lawyer (hopefully Monday) is there anything else I need to do?


Stop telegraphing your moves. Your anger is not going to help you in this situation. Be disciplined, be precise, and stop f****** telegraphing your next move.

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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I'm moving all my stuff to another bedroom this morning while she's at work. I made copies of all the tax returns last night and left her a copy on the table so she's knows I'm not screwing around.
> 
> Other than waiting to visit the lawyer (hopefully Monday) is there anything else I need to do?


You want useful advice?

As the poster above said, don't telegraph your moves. Especially with such pitiful and obviously spiteful actions such as leaving a tax return on the table trying to get some sort of response. So what if she "knows you're not screwing around". You're too focused on what she knows and thinks and how she reacts.

Sounds to me like you're just looking to poke the bear with a stick not get out of the situation in a fast efficient manner.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Our lawyers are going to require it anyways so I don't get what the big deal is. I don't interact with her, I save my rage for the gym, and I'm doing what I can to remove her from my life.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Our lawyers are going to require it anyways so I don't get what the big deal is. I don't interact with her, I save my rage for the gym, and I'm doing what I can to remove her from my life.


Yeah no big deal leaving a tax return on the table, it has nothing to do with trying to get a reaction out of her. She can just pick it up and add it to the pile of stuff she'll have to give to her attorney anyway, it will be a real time saver.

Might as well go around the house breaking all her stuff, you won't be getting it anyway.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

When my ex left I was initially very sad and that turned to anger, eventually it turned to nothing. This is all new and your anger is certainly understandable. You will go through a roller coaster of emotions for the near future, just understand that it will happen. Your ex is no longer your friend, buddy or pal, but you do need to treat her with a certain amount of respect, not for her, but for your daughter. You also need to look at what is best for your daughter and that also includes time with her mother, whom she still loves. Let your attorney handle the legal issues and you concentrate on you and your daughter, that is enough for now. The best revenge you can exact is to live a life that she would be envious to share. You are still young and it is a brave new world out there.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Our lawyers are going to require it anyways so I don't get what the big deal is. I don't interact with her, I save my rage for the gym, and I'm doing what I can to remove her from my life.


You came asking for advice and wisdom from those who had been there.

Perhaps you could be humble enough to actually consider the advice you are seeking out before dismissing it as drivel.

Unless, of course, you are more interested in talking rather than listening.

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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Is there a way to automatically like farsidejunky's posts as they hit the forum?


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Divorce lawyers love angry clients. You likely can't screw your wife over, no matter what she did. The law usually uses formulas to determine the outcome and you can't move the needle much, and you will spend a lot of money and time for nothing. 

Protect your interests, but play a long game for your daughters sake.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Now that I've had a moment to think, I think its wise to not want to be out for blood. 

Honestly I just want it over with. There's nothing left, she has absolutely zero remorse.

She has no money, no furniture, no bed, no money for a deposit on a place, so really, she's done this all to herself.

I can't reason with a sociopath that feels she has done no wrong.

Just do the 180 and work on taking care of my kids and I. Do nothing that could be interpreted as trying to get a reaction and just chill.

Am I hearing you right farside?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Now that I've had a moment to think, I think its wise to not want to be out for blood.
> 
> Honestly I just want it over with. There's nothing left, she has absolutely zero remorse.
> 
> ...


Yes sir.

But be disciplined as well. Nothing in life is ever achieved without discipline, and that includes an amicable and favorable divorce.

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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Get STD tests. And get your little tot DNA tested. Why? To stop any nonsense when your wife tries to imply you aren't her father.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

*Re: I can't believe I'm here....hort term marriage.*



Mclane said:


> You want advice? Be realistic.
> 
> The odds are astronomically small that you'll get custody of your daughter.
> 
> ...


Alimony may not be awarded. May be a short term marriage.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

The biggest revenge you can get is not caring. Cause either it will destroy her, or if she isn't destroyed, you won't care. It's a beautiful thing, really.

Anyway, there is a sense of self satisfaction you can feel by keeping everything on the up and up. Knowing you are living life the right way, even in the face of someone who did you the wrongiest of wrongs, helps you feel better about yourself. It also creates a better atmosphere for your kid. 

This is purely anecdotal, but my situation covers both sides. My two boys are a little wacky, but are almost always happy mostly because of the positive interaction I have with their mom. My step daughter, although she is a teenager, is often withdrawn and sullen, mostly because of the negative interaction between her parents. Not saying it's 100% correlates, but the better you manage yourself, the better off your kid will be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I looked at your profile page and noticed @Uptown was a friend. Then I started to read your earlier posts. Early on you mentioned she was frozen at age 12. If she is a CSA or BPD you are going about this all wrong. FarSide is right on the steps you need take but you also need to modify them to fit dealing with her FOO issues.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

JohnA said:


> I looked at your profile page and noticed @Uptown was a friend. Then I started to read your earlier posts. Early on you mentioned she was frozen at age 12. If she is a CSA or BPD you are going about this all wrong. FarSide is right on the steps you need take but you also need to modify them to fit dealing with her FOO issues.


I'm all ears....what do I need to do to modify my strategies to be more effective?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Paternity test for the baby

Stay calm! Don't even raise your voice.
Start with getting your finances in order. Quit paying anything for her. Who pays the phone bill? 

Expose. Her and her boy friend.

Start saving some money. Come up with a budget. One if you get custody and one if you don't. 

No drinking! 

Paternity test!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I would not expose yet. You are divorcing, not reconciling. Exposure is a tool to kill an affair. Keep that in your pocket in case you need it.

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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

*Re: I can't believe I'm here....hort term marriage.*



Maxo said:


> Alimony may not be awarded. May be a short term marriage.


The operative word of course being "may".

Some states award lifetime alimony even after a short duration marriage.

If he posts his geographic location we could get a better idea.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Alimony is not normally awarded in Iowa. I've been sober for 5 years, not that I'm an alcoholic, but I tend to get pretty violent. I read the sticky for this forum about just letting them go and it makes sense. I'm going to make a few copies of that to hang up in my room and at my desk at work. Also the numerous times that Gus Polanski's comments were "man up, grow some balls...." replies to other people in the same boat really made a difference. 

For right now I'm the plan manager for the phone bill and we both pay half. Our banking has been completely separate from day one. Her name isn't on my house. I think I've come up with a schedule for myself to reduce the amount of time I have to be with her and still get time with my daughter, like taking her on a walk in her stroller in the evening, my house has two living rooms so I can take her down there and away from my ex. 

Or would that be considered too reactionary? 

I told her that I will no longer bring my son to my house for visitation while she's still there. She exploded when I told her that she would need to find means of a babysitter for her 7 year old daughter for Saturdays and that this isn't my problem anymore. Why would I bother to help you out after you do all this?


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I'm all ears....what do I need to do to modify my strategies to be more effective?


Be very cognizant of a phenomenon known as "fundamental attribution error".

Read up on it and be cautious about how your reactions will appear to outsiders,particularly the court system.
Cluster B personality disordered people seem to know,instinctively and through practice how to use this phenomenon.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I think I've come up with a schedule for myself to reduce the amount of time I have to be with her and still get time with my daughter, like taking her on a walk in her stroller in the evening, my house has two living rooms so I can take her down there and away from my ex.
> 
> Or would that be considered too reactionary?


Seems reasonable to me. 

Ok, Iowa. 

Here's what I found from my favorite source on Iowa divorce.

You appear to earn a high income. Iowa is a generous state when it comes to awarding child support, although it's not as bad as some other states:

_By making unlimited child support available by judicial discretion, Iowa encourages litigation among high-income parents. This is mitigated to some extent by child support guidelines that cover, and therefore lend certainty to, some reasonably high-income scenarios._

It's common for allegations of domestic abuse to arise by a party looking to obtain exclusive occupancy of the marital home. Judges tend to dismiss and even penalize those who make false claims especially with no history, but you state you have been violent. If there's a record of this, then watch for domestic abuse allegations.

_Can the process be shortcut by a person alleging abuse and going into the domestic violence system? "Oh sure," responded Howie. "Too often you see a person alleging abuse in order to get the house, though the only thing that carries the day is physical abuse." Does a litigant need to have proof beyond his or her testimony? "No," said Howie. "It can just be a party testifying. However, Iowa judges are keenly aware of parties exaggerating abuse claims and can mete severe penalties, including taking custody away, when a parent trumps-up abuse claims in an attempt to gain advantage in a custody case. So, a person claiming 'he beats me' for the first time in a divorce setting with no prior complaints, arrests, criminal charges, or medical records, will have a hard time convincing a judge of the validity of the abuse claims."_

Not much said about alimony other than it's about as predictable as the weather:

_ "There is no formula or custom for the amount. It is just based on her ability to pay and his need. There are many factors and it is all subject to judicial discretion and attorney argument. I might tell him to expect 6-18 months of alimony, but in theory the sky's the limit. Lawyers love arguing alimony cases because we never know what the judge is doing to do."_

More here:

Real World Divorce: Iowa


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Be extraordinarily careful about being set up for a DV charge. No alone time with her,if possible. Never [email protected] threats or displays of anger. She will try to set you up.;


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Alimony is not normally awarded in Iowa. I've been sober for 5 years, not that I'm an alcoholic, but I tend to get pretty violent. I read the sticky for this forum about just letting them go and it makes sense. I'm going to make a few copies of that to hang up in my room and at my desk at work. Also the numerous times that Gus Polanski's comments were "man up, grow some balls...." replies to other people in the same boat really made a difference.
> 
> For right now I'm the plan manager for the phone bill and we both pay half. Our banking has been completely separate from day one. Her name isn't on my house. I think I've come up with a schedule for myself to reduce the amount of time I have to be with her and still get time with my daughter, like taking her on a walk in her stroller in the evening, my house has two living rooms so I can take her down there and away from my ex.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this.

Well done.

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think your most important thing is to remain calm and try to let your lawyer take care of you. 

Don't talk to her. Refuse it. Talking will accomplish nothing but hurting you and angering you, which can result in problems for you.

All communication via text or email.

VAR for recording her when she starts fights.

You are in a good state of mind to handle this properly. I wanted to reconcile with my cheating, trashy ex. It was an awful situation. 

Best to divorce here. No doubt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

What do you know about the long term effects of CSA? About dealing with people who are BPD? What has @Uptown advised you? 
If this is what you are dealing with you have no idea how much trouble you are in and what she is capable of doing. 

Start with a VARing everything and save it all.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

You seem to have this all figured out. 

Given the circumstances you have handled this exceptionally well so far.

Just dont cave in when she comes crawling that she ha no money, etc etc. Remember she made her bed she can now lie in it.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Today went to hell real fast. She came back this morning and immediately implemented the be cool, don't lose control, etc....which she did start poking me and I kept it together. I took my little girl for a good long 2 hour walk, and just before I got to my block, I lost it. I managed to get her in the house and sat in my truck so I could bawl and scream. 

I went up to my room to see if there was any place I could go to talk to someone since the thought of not seeing my daughter every day due to my stbxw's decisions, I went to a dark place really fast. She came into my room and asked if I wanted to talk, my response was no, she asked if I was ever going to talk to her and I still said no.

I called my dad and had a nice long talk with him about finding the right attorney to help me fight for my daughter and shares the same passion I do. She plans on moving back to her hometown 80 miles away. I don't see why I should have to eat crow on this too when I am capable of joint physical care and primary physical care when she gets to school age.

My father brought up the fact that my stbx hasn't had the most stellar record when it comes to her 7 year old and getting her to school, or the school calling to ask why she didn't have breakfast.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> My father brought up the fact that my stbx hasn't had the most stellar record when it comes to her 7 year old and getting her to school, or the school calling to ask why she didn't have breakfast.


Make a note to yourself to give your lawyer this information once you have a lawyer. You should be able to get records from the school about both breakfast and attendance. 

It may not be of any use, but then it may. That's why you need a lawyer.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I might also add that she yelled "I wanna slit my fu**ing wrists" at her 7 year old as well during one of her episodes.


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## zzzman99 (Oct 23, 2015)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I'm moving all my stuff to another bedroom this morning while she's at work. I made copies of all the tax returns last night and left her a copy on the table so she's knows I'm not screwing around.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that anything I did constitutes having a back up plan. But the FOG helps them justify anything. I'm pretty angry which is healthy and it gets stuff done. I'm sure her family will find out soon enough what's going on. I believe they have my number as well. Her mother did this same exact thing to her father so I have a feeling he knows what she's capable of.
> 
> Other than waiting to visit the lawyer (hopefully Monday) is there anything else I need to do?


Wrong - move her stuff to the other bedroom. Make her understand that she is the one who is wrong.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

So there was a big long apology letter under my pillow just now when I got into my bed." I'm sorry I fu**ed up, I understand why you hate me, and I hate myself. I do love you and I will continue to be sorry."

Dam. What now? This is the closure I wanted, but I don't want to be married to her no more. The marriage has been contaminated to me, and I've already been working on accepting that it's dead.

Help please.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I called my dad and had a nice long talk with him about finding the right attorney to help me fight for my daughter and shares the same passion I do. She plans on moving back to her hometown 80 miles away. I don't see why I should have to eat crow on this too when I am capable of joint physical care and primary physical care when she gets to school age.
> 
> My father brought up the fact that my stbx hasn't had the most stellar record when it comes to her 7 year old and getting her to school, or the school calling to ask why she didn't have breakfast.


She wants to move 80 miles away. That means if you are the nonresidential parent, you'll have to drive at least 3 hours round trip to visit your daughter, and if you take her on an overnight then it's going to be 6 hours worth of driving once you bring her back home.

You might be able to get the court to order that she not move beyond, say a 30 mile radius of your home, or at least order that your ex meet you half way or something but it's still going to blow. Especially since you'll probably get one overnight every other weekend and one weekday- you'll drive 1.5 hours to pick her up after school, take her to dinner for an hour or two then back in the car.

As far as you getting custody- your chances are slim to none. All things being equal, despite gradual changes in case law and public awareness and father's rights and all of that, the mother gets custody of young children most of the time. Even if she yells and screams in front of the kids.

If you are going to fight for custody of your daughter, expect to spend 10s of thousands of dollars and you, your wife, and your daughter will be interviewed by custody evaluators, and your life will be scrutinized to a level of detail that you will not believe. Don't expect fairness, don't expect justice, and understand you are going down a difficult road traveled by many fathers before you- the cards are stacked against you and you need to be prepared for the likelihood that you will become little more than a visitor in your daughter's life. 

That much being said, good luck and I hope you beat the odds.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She's saying she loves you? Hmm.

Ask her who us really her soulmate?
No, tell her you're not getting in the way of her being with her soulmate. 
She probably just figured out that ol' soulmate has a wife that he's not leaving for a piece of *** off the internet that he never really intended to have a LTR with.

She's worried about losing her security blanket. Now she's going to throw wild sex at you to get your mind off of the cheating. And you're going to get lots of affection.

Your call. But I would move her stuff to the other room and file for sure. I believe she has shown you how much you're really worth to her.

It's all about losing that security blanket and paycheck now. Did the love so easily return? Not likely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown.

Enough said.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> So there was a big long apology letter under my pillow just now when I got into my bed." I'm sorry I fu**ed up, I understand why you hate me, and I hate myself. I do love you and I will continue to be sorry."
> 
> Dam. What now? This is the closure I wanted, but I don't want to be married to her no more. The marriage has been contaminated to me, and I've already been working on accepting that it's dead.
> 
> Help please.


Do not cave. You wife is disordered.

Nobody yells something like that at their 7 year old. Combine that with the cheating, the note, the push/pull...she is a cluster B of some type.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Don't say anything about the letter. Ignore it. It is just to make herself feel better. IF she asks if you read it, tell her that it doesn't matter. It's too late. Period. Walk away. Not up for discussion.

As soon as you can see attorney, tell them that you want to stop her from moving the baby out of town. It depends on the courts of course, but alot of people are prevented from moving more than ____ miles from the other parent. BUT, before there is anything filed, there is nothing stopping one parent from taking their child to another town/state. If you have to stall her from moving, tell her to stay and let's figure out how this is going to work. (Not how to screw her over for revenge, but how to actually make it work.)


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> So there was a big long apology letter under my pillow just now when I got into my bed." I'm sorry I fu**ed up, I understand why you hate me, and I hate myself. I sdo love you and I will continue to be sorry."
> 
> Dam. What now? This is the closure I wanted, but I don't want to be married to her no more. The marriage has been contaminated to me, and I've already been working on accepting that it's dead.
> 
> Help please.


Protect your children. These types are fully capable of harming them. I have seen this. Your baby may be at risk.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JohnA said:


> What has @*Uptown* advised you?





farsidejunky said:


> @*Uptown*.Enough said.


@*JohnA* and @*farsidejunky*, thanks for your support and for encouraging my participation. Although I've been following this thread, I've not yet jumped in because I'm at a loss what to say that's not already been said several times. I've participated in three of Diesel's threads: one he started 3 years ago, a second that he started 2.5 years ago, and a third appearing 2 years ago (containing my 4/29/14 post). 

In each of those threads, Diesel expressed his strong desire to walk away from his abusive marriage. Yet, if his W exhibits strong BPD traits as he suspects, it is not surprising he is having trouble breaking away permanently. It is extremely painful for excessive caregivers -- like Diesel and me -- to walk away from a BPDer. 

In my case, it took me 15 years to walk away. By "walk away," I mean "hand cuffed and taken to jail." My BPDer exW had me arrested on a bogus charge, allowing her to easily obtain a R/O banning me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in this State).

BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

It's almost easier putting a bullet in my head and be done with it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Except for the bullet in the head part...

Enough with the victim speak, brother. Yes, it hurts. Probably like nothing you have ever felt. Yet here it is. Nagging, tugging, not allowing you to focus.

If you are going through hell, keep going. The sooner you keep moving, the sooner you will be through it. 

Until then, you have custody, alimony and child support to battle out. And if my suspicion is correct, it will be a battle. BPD spouses never let their STBX's off easy.

There is a TAM member who is trying to divorce his likely BPD ex wife, I believe his name is @truster, and he is struggling. You might reach out to him.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

It is amazing the % of BSs who are dealing with a disordered spouse, or at least someone with a higher than normal % of the traits. Just look at the WS section of Si and, if you are familiar with the criteria, it jumps out at you how many are disordered ( and this is with them trying to put their best foot forward.)
In many cases, the BS has been walking through a minefield for years and it is only the bright line crossing of infidelity that gets them to final move on and get out. 
I have read many posts that allude to having gratitude, in retrospect, for the cheating.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You do not have the luxury of being the victim at this time.

Right now there is only one person being even a little bit rational, and that's you.

If she is BPD, or has BPD tendancies right now, she will push you away when you want her, and pull you towards her when you try to leave.

It's also known as "I hate you, don't leave me" which is something I've had to deal with myself.

What you do is you put all that in a box right now and realize that none of it means anything to her. Keep the kids safe, keep yourself safe, and get the hell out of dodge. Call social services if you're worried about her kids. Try to be compassionate to them.

But my read is the second you even hinted you wanted to reconcile, she'd be pushing you away all over again. It's not just about emotional control, it's about emotional validation and getting attention.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> Don't say anything about the letter. Ignore it. It is just to make herself feel better. IF she asks if you read it, tell her that it doesn't matter. It's too late. Period. Walk away. Not up for discussion.
> 
> As soon as you can see attorney, tell them that you want to stop her from moving the baby out of town. It depends on the courts of course, but alot of people are prevented from moving more than ____ miles from the other parent. BUT, before there is anything filed, there is nothing stopping one parent from taking their child to another town/state. If you have to stall her from moving, tell her to stay and let's figure out how this is going to work. (Not how to screw her over for revenge, but how to actually make it work.)


I don't know if 80 miles will qualify, heck...that's a daily commute for some people, but you need to find out. You can get in and see an attorney and get a restraining order against her TODAY to keep her from moving the child.

Although, depending on state laws, you may be wrong about "nothing stopping her" from moving to another town / state. I went through this with my ex when she picked up and moved with our son without my permission to another state. I filed a report with the sheriff's department immediately, while she was still on the plane. It's called "child stealing" and is a felony. I had the sheriff's department of another state waiting for her at the airport when she landed. Unfortunately, they were just literally two minutes too late and missed her coming off the plane. Had they caught her, they informed me I'd need to get my butt up there pronto to pick up my son. Again, unfortunately, it didn't work out, and it was 18 months before I saw him again.

So, it is generally not okay for one parent to just take a child and go with them wherever they want. Eighty miles is not that far, but it is far enough to potentially rob you and your daughter of any kind of a daily visitation schedule or being involved with her daily activities (picking her up from school, going to school events, games, etc.) so you may have good cause for a restraining order. It basically takes away the option of joint physical custody during the school year. And that is NOT okay.

You don't need a super attorney or the attorney you will use in your divorce to handle this. Any decent family attorney can do so. After the restraining order is filed and she has been served, you've got all the time in the world to find another attorney for your divorce and custody hearings.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You're going to need help dealing with the years of emotional rollercoaster ride you are about to experience.

It doesn't end with the divorce. 

If she has a PD it will get worse.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Man, keep it together. From the sound of it you are well RID of her. Stay strong. After you get some space if THEN you want to give her a shot at working out then thats your prerogative. But until then, get yourself on a path and stay the course. Suicide IS NOT A SOLUTION.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> It's almost easier putting a bullet in my head and be done with it.


*That little one of yours needs you far more than your brain needs a bullet! Don't ever entertain thoughts like that again! You're too good of a man for that!

Once you file for D, you become as stealth as you possibly can! It might not hurt to get yourself tested for the presence of STD's! If the results are in any way positive, make that fact a part of the legal record!

Preserve all the evidence you can like her cell phone if you have it, all telephone bills and records detailing the number and the length of her phone calls to this POS, both outgoing and incoming! If the POS is married, make it a point to inform his W or significant other!

By the way, what state are you in?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

For what it's worth and having been there you might want to look into how remorseful your old lady really is. I mean this is a deal breaker for you...that is a given...and your concern is what kind of mother is the chick going to be.

If she is still phucking around then you need to have a certian game with reguards to your kid, but if she is truely remorseful then you have to make adjustments.

My point is your kid and how you make a plan and work the the plan.

At the end of the day if your old lady is telling one thing and doing another you have great concern for your kid, so IMHO I think you still need to validate your choices by confirming how how far down the rabbit hole your old lady has gone. I mean if she is crying and begging and wiping snot from her nose during the day and hanging out with her lover during the night...well then you might need to hire a PI to find out who she really wants to be....a mother or a single girl 

In short...if you are going to take your kids mom away you better dam well know why! So go ahead and phuck your wife..she is a POS, but she is your kids mom tread lightly if need be but if I am wrong ...well then go find a step mom that will be loyal to you and good to your kid!

That's my $0.02


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

the guy said:


> For what it's worth and having been there you might want to look into how remorseful your old lady really is. I mean this is a deal breaker for you...that is a given...and your concern is what kind of mother is the chick going to be.
> 
> If she is still phucking around then you need to have a certian game with reguards to your kid, but if she is truely remorseful then you have to make adjustments.
> 
> ...


No need for a step mom. Just be a good dad . Take a shot at full custody. Your wife is nuts.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Maxo said:


> It is amazing the % of BSs who are dealing with a disordered spouse, or at least someone with a higher than normal % of the traits. Just look at the WS section of Si and, if you are familiar with the criteria, it jumps out at you how many are disordered ( and this is with them trying to put their best foot forward.)
> In many cases, *the BS has been walking through a minefield for years and it is only the bright line crossing of infidelity that gets them to final move on and get out*.
> I have read many posts that allude to having gratitude, in retrospect, for the cheating.


So true, didn't realize it at first, though. :wink2:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure you always have a VAR in your pocket and that it's recording any time you're around her.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Except for the bullet in the head part...
> 
> Enough with the victim speak, brother. Yes, it hurts. Probably like nothing you have ever felt. Yet here it is. Nagging, tugging, not allowing you to focus.
> 
> ...


Just got the divorce decree yesterday, still have about 30 days before she legally has to be fully out of the house. Your situation shares some similarities to mine, so I'll share my thoughts.

1. Check out _Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder_. In my experience, it might as well be a prophecy written in stone.. what he says might happen, will happen.

2. If she has no income, you're probably on the hook for her until the divorce is over (if your state works like mine). This is a HUGE pain in the ass. BPD'ers tend to drag the process out anyway (mine will be just shy of a year by the time she moves out), and the incentive of having all her bills paid for while the process is active is even more incentive to drag it out as long as possible. Don't expect any movement on her end until the 11th hour of a deadline. I'm guessing she won't get a job, but if you can get her to, GREAT! A jobless spouse has the upper hand in asset splitting, child support, and other financial negotiations, and also has no incentive to settle because their bills are being paid.

3. I wouldn't get too high of hopes for full custody. It depends on your situation, it depends on your county, and it depends on your judge, so trust your lawyer's advice here. But you need to be a saint and your wife needs to be a complete non-functioning mess for that to happen generally. If you're the working one, she's probably the one that does school/afterschool more often, which is a further advantage. It sucks that the person nuking the marriage gets more kid time than the 'good' one, but it is what it is. Acceptance is the way to healing on this one.

4. According to the book mentioned in #1, and as experienced in my case, BPD'ers love to bring false charges of domestic abuse/rape. Get that VAR *now*, and keep it around always. I'm guessing she probably won't move out, but if you can move out.. great. If you have any violent history, her plan very well may work. The extra costs of another place (or crashing with someone) may pay off in the end, because you can get screwed here. HOWEVER, don't leave until you can get some sort of child sharing agreement worked out, because moving out and leaving the kids with her can be considered abandonment. Work closely with the lawyer here to protect yourself from the charges without screwing yourself on custody.

5. IT GETS BETTER. We tend to forget what 'normal' is when we deal with someone every day, and once you're dealing with normal people again it'll blow your mind how you put up with such utter crap and thought it was just the way things are. Finding out that normal relationships aren't tip-toeing around the other person so they don't blow up, not being able to have rational arguments, constant insults.. all that stuff is not normal, and it's so amazing when you're free of it and you can see how relationships are actually supposed to be.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

truster said:


> If she has no income, you're probably on the hook for her until the divorce is over (if your state works like mine).


In most states the alimony lasts much longer than the divorce.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Other than waiting to visit the lawyer (hopefully Monday) is there anything else I need to do?


 Yeah. Leave your stuff in the master bedroom and move her crap in the spare room. Then if she complains, let her know that she lost her right to the master bedroom and she has a choice, the spare room, couch or a motel.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> So there was a big long apology letter under my pillow just now when I got into my bed." I'm sorry I fu**ed up, I understand why you hate me, and I hate myself. I do love you and I will continue to be sorry."
> 
> Dam. What now? This is the closure I wanted, but I don't want to be married to her no more. The marriage has been contaminated to me, and I've already been working on accepting that it's dead.
> 
> Help please.


 send her one back and say, "Your a dollar short and a day late. You should have thought about that before you screwed another man. Sorry you lose.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Maxo said:


> It is amazing the % of BSs who are dealing with a disordered spouse, or at least someone with a higher than normal % of the traits. Just look at the WS section of Si and, if you are familiar with the criteria, it jumps out at you how many are disordered ( and this is with them trying to put their best foot forward.)
> In many cases, the BS has been walking through a minefield for years and it is only the bright line crossing of infidelity that gets them to final move on and get out.
> I have read many posts that allude to having gratitude, in retrospect, for the cheating.


Did someone call my name?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Maxo said:


> It is amazing the % of BSs who are dealing with a disordered spouse, or at least someone with a higher than normal % of the traits. Just look at the WS section of Si and, if you are familiar with the criteria, it jumps out at you how many are disordered ( and this is with them trying to put their best foot forward.)
> 
> In many cases, the BS has been walking through a minefield for years and it is only the bright line crossing of infidelity that gets them to final move on and get out.
> 
> I have read many posts that allude to having gratitude, in retrospect, for the cheating.




Equally amazing how many BS's put up with it for so long.

I include myself. 

Years. 

Understand your role in the dysfunction. 

It's more complex than victim/perpetrator.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Ceegee said:


> Equally amazing how many BS's put up with it for so long.
> 
> I include myself.
> 
> ...


Definitely researched it and looked within. I will never put up with it again and can spot these folks a mile away,now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Equally amazing how many BS's put up with it for so long.
> 
> I include myself.
> 
> ...


My wife and I have been together for 27 years. Time flies, y'know?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sorry if this came up before, but are you sure the baby is yours?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I deleted the thread jack.

If you want to discuss politics, start another thread. On this thread, give support and input to the OP.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Diesel, a couple of things for you to consider. First stop all talk of literally biting the bullet, a thing like that in print in the hands of the wrong person and that could be detrimental in a custody case. They take those things very seriously and so should you. Hopefully this was an emotional overflow to the stress of the moment and not how you really feel. As for the apology, it is what it is and while it is nice for her to acknowledge her shortcomings, it doesn't change things in the long run. However, you do need to treat her with a certain amount of respect as the mother of your child. If she is willing to be civil, then it behooves you to do the same, it will pay dividends in the long run as you are going to have to coparent for a long time. The best revenge you can receive is to live a life that she only wishes that she could have had.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Diesel Bomber, sorry to have you here.

I cannot tell from your post what your wife did exactly.

She has been bashing you to someone called Curtis. Who is he ? How did they meet ? Is he married ? Do you know who his gf/wife is ?

She also "craves" his attention. How do you know this ? Is this from the messages saying how wonderful they are ?

Her message about not being able to kiss because there will be other people there - do you think that she has kissed him before ? Where is "there"? Have you got any info on her doing more than that ? How long has this been going on ?

You say her mother did this to her father too. What exactly did her mother do ? Fvck another man ? Did they reconcile ?

What have the tax returns got to do with any of this and why does leaving a copy of them on her pillow show that you mean business ?

She has apologised for fvcking up. What exactly is she apologising for? What has she owned up to or admitted to ?

I really don't understand what your children situation is. It seems that she has a 7 year old daughter from before she met you. What do you mean about not bringing your son to visit while she is still there ? Is this a son from a previous marriage/relationship ? How old is he ? I am guessing your ex would have primary custody in this case. Do you have any children together ?

How long have you two been married ? How did you meet ?

You say you have anger issues and are a recovered alcoholic. How bad are your anger issues ? You sound very emotional. You should know that none of this is worth doing any harm to yourself. You would only be depriving your son and what has he done to deserve that ?

I would really need to know more to be able to give you my real thoughts and best advice I can give.

Stay strong and calm in the meantime. You seem to be taking the right steps so far.


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