# The Sex-Starved Marriage



## AlphaMale74 (Oct 15, 2014)

The sex-starved marriage | Michele Weiner-Davis | TEDxCU: https://youtu.be/Ep2MAx95m20


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

AlphaMale74 said:


> The sex-starved marriage | Michele Weiner-Davis


MW Davis book, the Sex Starved Marriage, was a significant factor in saving my marriage. I highly recommend it to anyone, man or woman who is in a sex starved marriage.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Great perspective, but it only works if the LD spouse can actually have empathy for the HD spouse.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> MW Davis book, the Sex Starved Marriage, was a significant factor in saving my marriage. I highly recommend it to anyone, man or woman who is in a sex starved marriage.


She also wrote a book called the Sex-Starved Wife. I thought about getting it, but ended up with a different book instead. I'm still curious about that book.


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## LuvIsTuff (Feb 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Great perspective, but it only works if the LD spouse can actually have empathy for the HD spouse.


"Empathy" says "I know how you feel. I can relate". I don't think empathy is even possible when an HD spouse has an LD spouse. What the LD spouse does need, however, is a willingness to look beyond what makes sense to them and be SELFLESS for the sake of their spouse and their marriage. I'm 1000% in the shoes of what this video discusses. I cried while I watched it. I've been the HD husband for 19 years(in July), and it never changes. Unlike the people in her examples, we've talked about it, and talked about it, and fvcking talked about it some more.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I like her books as well, but they aren't much use with an unwilling partner. Like most books, if the couple is reading together, determined to find a solution, then they are "golden". Solo, it just seems to amplify what you want that is missing?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right, because the only answer anyone can give you is "if you're going to stay married to your partner regardless of the sexlessness, you have no options."

It surprises me still that people don't get this.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

woundedwarrior said:


> I like her books as well, but they aren't much use with an unwilling partner. Like most books, if the couple is reading together, determined to find a solution, then they are "golden". Solo, it just seems to amplify what you want that is missing?


Here here! If you have an unwilling partner who doesn't want to change and never intends to try, these books won't do a bit of good, only remind the HD spouse that for some people things will change but for you, not so much.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> I like her books as well, but they aren't much use with an unwilling partner. Like most books, if the couple is reading together, determined to find a solution, then they are "golden". Solo, it just seems to amplify what you want that is missing?


I read this book several years back. Begged and badgered my wife to read it, thinking it might actually give her some perspective on my side of things. She eventually read some of it after months had gone by and I wouldn't drop it. Did not help.

The book itself was pretty good, but I agree-it only works if both partners want it to work.

Impovement only came after she decided on her own to start making a few changes (as well as myself). Books do nothing for her.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Right, because the only answer anyone can give you is "if you're going to stay married to your partner regardless of the sexlessness, you have no options."
> 
> It surprises me still that people don't get this.


A bit fatalistic. Turnarounds are rare, but possible.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> She also wrote a book called the Sex-Starved Wife. I thought about getting it, but ended up with a different book instead. I'm still curious about that book.


I've read both books, but they would have been more useful if my husband would have agreed to read them too. It's really hard to address the problem of a celibate marriage unless your partner can agree that it's a problem. Since then I have ordered two David Schnarch books - Passionate Marriage (which I've already finished) and Resurrecting Sex (which I'm halfway through). I've found these take a much more holistic approach and am hopeful that something will finally make a difference and that I can start having a sex life again at some point in the future without having to divorce or have an affair in order to do so.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes Fozzy, but if the usual talking doesn't work, then what? 

I've seen turn arounds after that point, but only in cases where the HD is truly willing to leave the marriage. YAH is an example of this. So is Anon. 

And even when you are willing to walk, there's no guarantee the LD won't just say "ok let's split". I have seen that happen a number of times too. 

So back to the problem..if talking hasn't worked and you are not willing to walk...why is it so hard to understand at that point that we can't force other people to change? Because forcing them to change is what you're really asking for, and since this is impossible, why not see it for what it is?

The other thing is that the HD rarely sees their own part in things at that point. Instead of "why is he/she doing this to me?" The question should be "why am I married to someone who doesn't fulfill me yet blaming my position on them?"


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

There's also the option of changing yourself. Sometimes that's at the root of the problem.

BTW--good to see you around again


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You too, Fozzy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> There's also the option of changing yourself. Sometimes that's at the root of the problem.


Fozzy, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying people should NOT do everything in their power...try EVERYTHING in your power! Don't just walk out on your partner for lack of sex! Try to get into counseling, read every book you find, talk to any expert you trust, work on yourself, ask, beg, plead, walk 500 miles, do a 180, do a handstand...try EVERYTHING. Including changing yourself.

But the fact is...many people will do this and still see no change in their spouse. THEN what? 

What I'm saying is that at this point, the HD can either leave or live with it because we cannot make people change.

We can't make them change!

Why do people still want an answer as to "how can I make my sexless spouse get into me or into sex?" when it has been proven to them that the answer is "you can't"? I mean, wow, its cute to be soooo hopeful after trying everything...you must really love your spouse. Yet...this is also a pretty deep level of denial. To project YOUR decision to stay, even though unfulfilled and claim that the way THEY ARE is the reason you are unhappy, is just denial. We can say it is "because of the kids" or "because I love him/her" or "because I took a vow"...but the real reason lies deeper within the HD spouse. We NEVER have the power to change anyone, but we always have the power to leave them. (Which is odd because we believe we DON'T have the power to leave and we DO have the power to change them!) If we don't want to execute our real power yet at the same time claim we are a victim, we will stay in agony and be convinced it isn't voluntary.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

My two cents. In just about all marriage problems it takes two. MW Davis says that one can change the dynamic between the couple through self change and 180's. And that change in the dynamic will force the partner to interact differently (but in a way that the initiator can't always predict).

If there was substance to the marriage at some point the person who is now confused must figure out their own self interest. My wife had the help of a brutal sex therapist, who pointed out that lots of women would love to have me as their husband and I would have absolutely no problem finding one of them. She further asked my wife if she wanted to be responsible for the divorce, because I was trying to save the marriage, had changed my behavior, apologized, and fought to save the marriage and the only thing that hadn't changed was my wife. 

She pointed out to my wife that I had established a deadline for being divorced and in a loving relationship, so the decision of if the marriage ended was totally my wifes. She pointed out that my wife either by action or inaction would determine if divorce happened and that my wife would have to live with the consequences for that the rest of her life.

So from my perspective, either partner can initiate self change and serve as a role model to the other partner to encourage them to do introspection and change. You can't force the person to change, but you can show them it is possible and let them choose their own self interest.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

YAH, if your wife had refused to go to counseling, you would not be where you are at. 

So I'm talking about the people whose LD spouse refuses to consider such a request by the HD. 

The people who have tried to do what you did, but their LD spouse did not budge.

Do you get that?

I never said people shouldn't try, and have reiterated that people SHOULD try, and that some people do see change. Cases like yours are wonderful to read about! But your case included:

*your wife agreed to sex therapy

*you really were going to D if she had not tried to change (after a fair given amount of time)

For people whose LD spouse will not agree to anything and where the HD spouse is not ever going to D, there is no way to force the LD spouse to change.

If the LD spouse comes to a point in their life where they decide to change because they want to, it still could happen.

It is not very likely, though.

At that point...how can the HD "blame" the LD spouse for their unhappiness in staying? All the LD spouse is doing is being who they really are.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Having been in a sexless marriage some years back, it is not really the lack of sex that is the issue but the hopeless desperation that the lack of sex brings. 

You can live without sex but you cannot live without hope.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> ...The people who have tried to do what you did, but their LD spouse did not budge.
> 
> Do you get that?
> 
> ...


I agree with you. Yes I understand that it ultimately does take two to save a marriage in crisis and sometimes people are so afraid of change they will not budge.

I would also point out that depending on the therapist if it was truly just an LD/HD issue not a No Desire/HD issue the therapist could have sided with the LD partner depending on the speciific issues. As Schnarch points out in his book Passionate Marriage, there is no right amount of sex, and the LD partner is not "wrong." Frequency of sex is negotiated by the couples based on their state of differentiation and growth.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You did get a great combo of a willing wife (even though reluctant initially) and a great therapist who really laid it out before her like that. I'm sure that your overall positive attitude, your patience and willingness to work on yourself, and your real love for your wife helped you get those two great pieces to your recovery from a sexless marriage.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife had the help of a brutal sex therapist, who pointed out that lots of women would love to have me as their husband and I would have absolutely no problem finding one of them. She further asked my wife if she wanted to be responsible for the divorce, because I was trying to save the marriage, had changed my behavior, apologized, and fought to save the marriage and the only thing that hadn't changed was my wife.
> 
> She pointed out to my wife that I had established a deadline for being divorced and in a loving relationship, so the decision of if the marriage ended was totally my wifes. She pointed out that my wife either by action or inaction would determine if divorce happened and that my wife would have to live with the consequences for that the rest of her life.
> .



Wow! Paging Dr. Cluebat!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> My two cents. In just about all marriage problems it takes two. MW Davis says that one can change the dynamic between the couple through self change and 180's. And that change in the dynamic will force the partner to interact differently (but in a way that the initiator can't always predict).
> 
> If there was substance to the marriage at some point the person who is now confused must figure out their own self interest. My wife had the help of a brutal sex therapist, who pointed out that lots of women would love to have me as their husband and I would have absolutely no problem finding one of them. She further asked my wife if she wanted to be responsible for the divorce, because I was trying to save the marriage, had changed my behavior, apologized, and fought to save the marriage and the only thing that hadn't changed was my wife.
> 
> ...


Very good post! It sounds like you had a very good therapist!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that the first thing that has to be determined is if a spouse is really LD or if there are problems in the marriage that are leading to them not wanting sex with their spouse. And if so, can those be fixed. 

Often times if they are fixed, then the sex issues go away.

If serious marital issues are eliminated and there is no improvement in the desire of the person who wants less sex, then it should be approached as a LD issue.

If you approach lack of sex due to marital issues in the same manner as a LD issue, it's not going to work.

Take a spouse who is refusing sex because they are resentful of their spouse who is not meeting their needs, and tell them that there is a line of hot potential mates waiting for them.. and they will most likely to point out the door.


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## jacko jack (Feb 19, 2015)

Dear faithfulwife

Totally agree with you and your posts, before two months ago, thought I was the only person in the world that was deprived of sex, however, since looking at this and other boards, I have found that I am not alone. Have come to the conclusion, that you just have to live a celibate life. The only thing that bothers me is how my houseguest can say before marriage that she was the blowjob queen, however, have discovered that she has lied on a number of occasions, mainly on finance and her previous life. It has brought some peace to me to release that this is not a gender matter. I have been to counselling on the insistence of our female vicar, this counselling helped me, in that I could speak to someone face to face, but I have to say contributions to this and other sites by various people have helped me immensely. I take this opportunity to say, I apologise for my jokes pasted on this site, they do help me survive.

Take Care

Jacko Jack


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