# I think it's over...



## Lpt51173 (Sep 5, 2010)

I dont think we get to be one of the ones who can be saved. I think it's over. 

Counseling brought out so much today. She was finally honest and said so many things regardless of if they would hurt me and I was so happy she did. To finally hear her being honest and to get reasons and answers for years of no communication and no intimacy.

She has made it very clear she does not want to end contact with the OM. She actually came out and said to me that she just does not want to spend the rest of her life with me.

But why am I not distraught? Why am I not feeling like the love of my life is leaving forever...

Maybe because we left that part of relationship long ago and I am starting to see and realize it. 

While she has been in an affair fog I also realize I had my part in all this and what does it all mean to me, my feelings? A light has started to shine and while I need to communicate and open up and learn more about myself I found myself really wondering if we just don't belong together as lovers forever. 

I havent loved her like that, wanted her, craved her, needed her touch in a long, long time. 

I dont want to fake it, I don't want to try and make it work just for my daughter if I wont be happy. I don't want another few months or years to pass. I don't want to walk down the affair road one day because of a moment of weakness...

I think my emotional outbursts my sadness is thinking of the exact moment of telling our child what is going to happen. And with that comes my over-active imagination kicking in and creating scenarios that are far worse than real-life could ever deliver. 

I know sound very confused right now but actually I have had a moment of clarity and it scares me, makes me sad but also gives me some peace as I feel as if I am getting some answers and all I really wanted right now is answers. 

Any thoughts or comments? Would love to hear back from the community.


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## Lpt51173 (Sep 5, 2010)

Been reading the boards...

I read these stories of the wife finally giving up her OM and after awhile of depression and withdrawal she comes around and the marriage is stronger than ever before. And even though my feelings for my wife have faded too, if she would give us that chance I would work through it and try my hardest. Sure the end result may be separation and divorce but at least we came to that decision together. 

But what if the wife doesn't want to even do that? What if she just wont? I get all the stock answers. "I don't I could do that.", "I just don't want to spend the rest of my life with you.","I would be so depressed that I dont think I could talk out our feelings."

I told her it is all affair talk. That I read our story a million times. She says "Well everyone is different" All affair talk. 

How hard do you fight or wait and see? I cant force her to stop talking him. I cannot force her to do anything. 

Every time I feel like I need to let it go I read stories of success or at trying and makes me mad that we cant seem to get there. She is going to counseling with me but admitted today it is to clear her mind, heart and say what she has to say so we can move forward with separation and divorce.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Lpt51173 said:


> Sure the end result may be separation and divorce but at least we came to that decision together.


No, it doesn't have to be a joint decision. You can force her to make the decision or you can make it yourself. Your wife will never return to you emotionally unit TOM is out of the picture. You can state that you are ready to make the commitment to recover the marriage but she has to do that also and that means ending contact with TOM. If she won't do that then consider exposure of the affair. She is happy at the moment to stay in the household and enjoy what ever you bring to the table. Stability, money, co-parent, what ever. But she can't have it both ways. Set your boundaries and be ready to act on them if she won't accept them. She won't change without pressure.


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## Lpt51173 (Sep 5, 2010)

I can demand all I want. If she wont, she wont. Sure I can threaten exposure, I can do a lot of things.

In all out back and forth over this all the emotional outbursts, crying, accepting getting mad there have been talks about how separation would work. I cannot imagine that almost everyone here going through an EA hasn't discussed this before an actual decision on separation or divorce has been reached. It is a natural question "what about the kids?"

No courts, no using our daughter against us. I have been a self-employed, SAHD for years. My income has been great and it has sucked. But we have made it through fine. 

But if i start doing the exposure, calling her out and she decides to get even I don't stand a chance in court and my life has to have my daughter in it. She is my everything. 

I am operating out of a place of confused feelings regarding myself myself and fear of what could happen regarding my daughter.

Now keep in mind she has never had a vindictive bone in he body but she also in not the woman I married.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Lpt51173 said:


> I cannot imagine that almost everyone here going through an EA hasn't discussed this before an actual decision on separation or divorce has been reached. It is a natural question "what about the kids?"


In the end it is about the kids. But if she won't end the affair what is your alternative? To be walked on and taken advantage of as a revenue source and caregiver while she continues the affair. What kind of life is that for any of you let alone if it goes on, she will likely leave you in the end anyway. You've stated that you would like to save the marriage she has stated she can't imagine living out her years with you or giving up TOM. Demanding does nothing if you aren't willing to back it up. Using an ultimatum doesn't mean you have to throw down the gauntlet in a rage and walking out the door if she says no. It can be a simple and firm, I won't go on in a marriage where you don't respect my wishes and continue this relationship with another man. If you are not willing to end contact I see no other option than divorce. If she still says no then begin the proceedings with your daughter's best interests in mind.

As far as exposure goes, you are correct, it is the nuclear option but it can work.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I have had the same confusion;I havent craved or loved my wife for years but was also up set about her affairs. When I thought about moving on I read in a book called "After the Affair" 
It went something like this"if you dont change the behaviors in the marriage, you will have the same behaviors in the next marrraige"
So I thought why not change my behaviors with my current relationship there by having a new relationship with the same person. Its working but my wife still wanted to be with me. 
If you can get your wife to change her behaviors you might have a chance. Remember the affair is not the cause of a bad marriage it is the end result. In may case the marrieage need repairs before the cheating.


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

Lpt51173 said:


> But if i start doing the exposure, calling her out and she decides to get even I don't stand a chance in court and my life has to have my daughter in it. She is my everything.



Then you are never going to win her back. I do not know your story but if you want this/her back, then you have to fight harder and go all out man. You have to fight for her, you, your family. Exposure was the single most biggest thing to help the situation. As soon as I found out I told EVERYONE I/she/we knew. I was in such a shock about the PA that I did not care who knew, it just felt right to expose in that way. And I have to say if I had not done that we would not still be together today. 

In the process I found out a lot about myself that I, nor she, never knew before. I went into some kind of survival mode. I lost over 20 pounds, was more confidant than ever, I was transforming into a man ready to go out in the world alone with success. All of these actions 'won' her back. As I was preparing to move on with my life she noticed and was paying attention. 

I also made it clear that a divorce was something 'she' wanted, not I. And she would have to start the process. She did. She had a lawyer. Everything she asked me to do I refused. She asked me to leave my home. I refused. She asked me to not sleep in my own bed with her. I refused. I spoke to her and treated her like a business partner. It was all business and about the kids. Nothing else. Not like a lover, husband, boyfriend. Only in a very mature manner. I refused to raise my voice about anything. I refused to let her get a rise out of me.

It was the toughest time of my life and I still have my days about whether staying with her is the right choice or not. Only because of what she did to us/me (the PA). Only time will make this better and I believe it will and we will move past. Take the PA away and yes there is no doubt, she is the right one for me and, according to her now, I for her. There is no doubt in her mind and she tells me everyday. I feel we definitely have a much stronger relationship and communication has never been better, which was really our problem in the first place.

There is hope if you want there to be.


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## willzy (Aug 4, 2010)

twisted, those are very helpful words and advice. Thanks for sharing them. Self-impovement is the path I am starting to follow.

May work, may not. I am not even sure at this stage I want to save our marriage because I am losing so much respect for my wife. But I do know that because we have kids we at least have a duty to try. And if she comes through this and becomes the best person she can be then she will regain my respect and we have a chance of making a happy life together.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> ...I read these stories of the wife finally giving up her OM and after awhile of depression and withdrawal she comes around and the marriage is stronger than ever before. And even though my feelings for my wife have faded too, if she would give us that chance I would work through it and try my hardest. Sure the end result may be separation and divorce but at least we came to that decision together...


So how serious are you about this? If so, there are specific things you can do that increase the 'chances' of your marriage recovering, and definitely will create a better, stronger person. 



> ..But what if the wife doesn't want to even do that? What if she just wont? I get all the stock answers. "I don't I could do that.", "I just don't want to spend the rest of my life with you.","I would be so depressed that I dont think I could talk out our feelings...


This is standard, run-of-the-mill affair gibberish (fog talk, disloyal dizziness.) The key here: pay no attention to it. Your job is to create a welcome, healthy environment and allow the affair to crumble. You are the one who learns all the ways of bettering yourself and your relationship - not her. You are the one who can access the tools to need to bring this all about. She is off in a fantasy, without those tools. So step back, disentangle, and begin at home - with you. Let her SEE changes - and keep the path to your home open to her as long as you are able.



> ...I can demand all I want. If she wont, she wont. Sure I can threaten exposure, I can do a lot of things...


Demands nearly always backfire. They are perceived as means of control (which is essentially what they are!) Instead, make respectful requests, and let her make the choices she will make. Begin to set boundaries for yourself. 

As for exposure: exposure is not a means of coercion. You must NEVER threaten exposure. Instead, you EXPOSE. The reason you do so is to let those who will be affected by the divorce know ahead of time what may be happening. Affairs are based upon and built on deceit. Breaking open the deception places an extreme amount of pressure on a relationship that depends upon fantasy to survive. 

Threatening exposure may be one of the worst things a person can do - for two reasons: 1) It gives the disloyal spouse time to invent stories about how crazy you are, about how you've driven them to this position, and possibly to hide the affair even further. 2) It is an effort to control a person, which is an immoral way to treat a rational human being. You do not want a spouse who will only respond to your commands, do you? Don't you want one that voluntarily works with you? 



> But if i start doing the exposure, calling her out and she decides to get even I don't stand a chance in court and my life has to have my daughter in it. She is my everything.


Calling you out on this one. _You_ are not the spouse lying, cheating and breaking the commitment of your marriage vows. In court, you have AT LEAST an equal say in what happens with your kids. The _ONLY_ way you would not 'stand a chance' in court is if you were an abusive man, or have abandoned your kids. Have you done either? 

Don't imagine that the court is a place where people 'get even.' Judges see through the malarkey quite easily. She may TRY to 'get even' - but the questions the judge will want answered is 'can abuse or neglect be proven?' and 'how will the children be cared for?' And on top of this, the LEAST you are like;y to end up with is 50/50 custody - which means that your wife has the SAME chance of 'being ruined' as you.

Again, calling you out on this: 'my life has to have my daughter in it.' 

What you mean is that you WANT your daughter in your life. And my question is this: since she is your daughter, _how can that fact bane changed_? Since she is alive, she will ALWAYS be in your life, and unless you are somehow going to imprison her at home forever, my guess is that she will leave one day anyway, My point: your daughter is your daughter always, and even if your only worry is that she won't be in your house 24 hours a day - there is very little chance that will happen anyway. 

The issue here is that your emotions are running amok - you are responding to how you feel as though that is reality. What is real are the facts. What we worry about is imagination. 

So my suggestion: stop, and think. Begin to approach this rationally and in an organized way. As long as you fly from emotion to emotion, you give all the advantage to your wife, who is living in a foggy fantasy. 

In other words, your daughter is getting it from both of you: mom is flitting about in a drugged out haze and dad is freaking out about it. Calm down and you'll see some amazing results.

We are here to help you.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I went through nearly a year of this, where we were separated and I got all sorts of come here/go away kinds of signs. It was very difficult and the first four months were terrible beyond anything I'd experienced. 

In retrospect, I would have cut off all communication except related to children or money. I wouldn't have listened, I wouldn't have had the heartfelt conversations where I felt like we made progress, only to find that evening she'd spend it with the other man... I wouldn't have "worked on understanding her"... I wouldn't have listened or believed a word out of her mouth, because it was all designed to keep me as an option. 

For you, if she is still in the home, I'd say: "I respect your decision to divorce, I'd like you to move out as soon as possible." Be calm, non threatening, ACCEPT what she is telling you. Try to get a mediated separation agreement in place as soon as you can, then file for divorce as soon as you can. 

This will shake her up, and she may come to her senses, or she may leave. Either way, it'll save you a bunch of limbo. 

Basically, it's time to be a bit of d*ck, and act in YOUR OWN best interest. If a friend was treating you like ****, and stealing from you, you'd end the friendship, right?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Twistedheart said:


> Then you are never going to win her back. I do not know your story but if you want this/her back, then you have to fight harder and go all out man. You have to fight for her, you, your family. Exposure was the single most biggest thing to help the situation. As soon as I found out I told EVERYONE I/she/we knew. I was in such a shock about the PA that I did not care who knew, it just felt right to expose in that way. And I have to say if I had not done that we would not still be together today.
> 
> In the process I found out a lot about myself that I, nor she, never knew before. I went into some kind of survival mode. I lost over 20 pounds, was more confidant than ever, I was transforming into a man ready to go out in the world alone with success. All of these actions 'won' her back. As I was preparing to move on with my life she noticed and was paying attention.
> 
> ...


I am encouraged by this. I'm now thinking that I need to do more exposure. Last night I told a very "talkative" member of our church and I know at the least, she will say something to my wife. She will probably tell many others. I don't want to run her name in the mud, but she needs to get the message. I will continue to expose. 

I've also thoroughly gone over the love extinguishes and kindlers. I've gone through the personality profile. I've gone over it all and have learned alot about me, my relationship and where I messed up. I will continue to address my issues and move forward, but I'm still fighting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I am encouraged by this. I'm now thinking that I need to do more exposure. Last night I told a very "talkative" member of our church and I know at the least, she will say something to my wife. She will probably tell many others. I don't want to run her name in the mud, but she needs to get the message. I will continue to expose.


Mark - be very careful about exposure. This should be done one time, all at once, and only to people who have been or will be affected by the affair, and to people that your wife regards as wise counsel - people to whom she might listen. Passing it on to the 'talkative' lady at church is not the idea! That is indulging in gossip, and this will come back to bite you when you don't expect it. Gossip is not the message she needs to hear: it most likely will move her to end all contact with that church permanently. Please be careful!

You've exposed the affair: move on to the next step!


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Mark - be very careful about exposure. This should be done one time, all at once, and only to people who have been or will be affected by the affair, and to people that your wife regards as wise counsel - people to whom she might listen. Passing it on to the 'talkative' lady at church is not the idea! That is indulging in gossip, and this will come back to bite you when you don't expect it. Gossip is not the message she needs to hear: it most likely will move her to end all contact with that church permanently. Please be careful!
> 
> You've exposed the affair: move on to the next step!


I guess I should clarify that this woman is not a gossipper, but she is an in your face type. If she hears something, she will go to you about it. Also, she has been close to us for several years. She was our daughter's daycare provider. She's helped my wife and I out of many pinches. She and her husband have taken us out to dinner on many occasions. She is a truly good-hearted person. I told her because she cares for our daughter as if she were her own, so it wasn't just anybody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Mark - be very careful about exposure. This should be done one time, all at once, and only to people who have been or will be affected by the affair, and to people that your wife regards as wise counsel - people to whom she might listen. Passing it on to the 'talkative' lady at church is not the idea! That is indulging in gossip, and this will come back to bite you when you don't expect it. Gossip is not the message she needs to hear: it most likely will move her to end all contact with that church permanently. Please be careful!
> 
> You've exposed the affair: move on to the next step!


Tanelornpete, question for you on this topic. If you expose the affair to lets say 10 people that matter and it still does not phase the WS, would you consider it gossip on behalf of the loyal spouse if:

1. Those 10 people tell 10 other people( I think you have said it before that we have no control over other people's actions)

2. You run into people(mutal friends) who casually ask: Hey how is WS doing and have no clue about WS's affair? You then tell them: We are having marital problems and if they ask(because they are surprised) what kind would you tell those people the real story(maybe not all details)? Mind you these could be also people that could matter reputation wise to the WS.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Tanelornpete, question for you on this topic. If you expose the affair to lets say 10 people that matter and it still does not phase the WS, would you consider it gossip on behalf of the loyal spouse if:
> 
> 1. Those 10 people tell 10 other people( I think you have said it before that we have no control over other people's actions)
> 
> 2. You run into people(mutal friends) who casually ask: Hey how is WS doing and have no clue about WS's affair? You then tell them: We are having marital problems and if they ask(because they are surprised) what kind would you tell those people the real story(maybe not all details)? Mind you these could be also people that could matter reputation wise to the WS.


Gossip is the spreading of information for the sake of either getting attention (by having something 'cool' to tell people, or for the sake of causing a commotion. Gossip is never done for the good of the object of the news; instead, it uses that object for its own ends. Hence, gossip causes damage. So it is imperative to make sure that anyone you let know about the affair is not one who will use it for that sake. 

No, you can't control other people (at all, ever) - and the fact that someone else may spread the information accidentally or otherwise is their responsibility, not yours. Hopefully, anyone you give this information to will be wise enough to know what to do with it. 

Again, regarding telling mutual friends about the troubles in your marriage - it's up to you as a responsible adult to decide how much information is the business of others and how much is between you and your spouse. If those friends are going to be harmed in some way by a divorce, it might be a good idea to let them know a bit more than people to whom it might just be a juicy nugget of news....

Finally, exposure may or may not phase a cheating spouse. The point is that you expose the affair in order to keep it from being hidden, buried in lies. If it is in the open, the partners involved have a much more difficult time pretending it is valid and necessary.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Lpt51173 said:


> I know sound very confused right now but actually I have had a moment of clarity and it scares me, makes me sad but also gives me some peace as I feel as if I am getting some answers and all I really wanted right now is answers.


“Moment of clarity”. People change over time in a marriage. With me I was in love with the woman I knew from quite a few years back but I hadn’t woken up to who she had become. When I looked at the woman she had become, I released I was no longer in love with her. That was my moment of clarity. I express it as “I was in love with who she was, I couldn’t love the woman she’d become”. My wife told me she loved me, but no way did I feel loved by her. You wife told you she doesn’t love you, so no way do you feel loved by her.

Maybe your moment of clarity was for the same reason as mine. When I realised I was no longer in love, my way ahead became very clear.

Bob


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

So, do we also let the OM know about the fact that I know about the affair? Or the OM's wife? (I have some pretty strong evidence I could show her).

Without reading this post, I exposed my wife's EA with the OM to our closest friends (a couple we've known a long time). My wife told them that we were separating because "it was just too much living with me now". When the wife of the couple called me up to ask WTF was wrong with me, I felt I had to set the story straight about my wife's EA. So the couple then called my wife back to "set her straight", because they felt that they were now lied to by my wife, and weren't too thrilled about the affair, to say the least. When my wife found out about me telling our friends, she was irate with me, to say the least, and told me she would appreciate it if I didn't talk about our marriage problems with anyone else. I did feel guilty after she said this, but now I'm thinking I shouldn't feel guilty at all!


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