# Is it just me or do all "Your money, My money" marriages have trouble?



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

It looks to me like the majority of marriages that have serious money troubles are the "Your money My money" arrangements...

Having been married for 47 years and always having joint accounts, I cannot fathom a marriage where each "partner" managed their own finances....

It is no a real partnership with separate finances.....

If a marriage is "till death do us part" one of you is going to wind up with it all right?

I guess it boils down to *HOW CAN YOU MARRY SOMEONE YOU DON'T TRUST ENOUGH TO SHARE YOUR FINANCES WITH?*

I only have a high school education, and my wife was a stay at home mom...And if I could see my lifestyle through my eyes at 25, I would think I was filthy rich....

I sacrificed when I was younger, but now I own a great home (brick 2000 sq ft) in a neighborhood of half million dollar homes...Have a nice fishing boat, 4 cars, an investment home, and am very comfortably retired......I could not have accomplished his without a partner like my wife. A true partner, life mate, help mate, and lover 50-50 from day one...

The only way is a full and equal partnership regardless of individual contributions....If each partner is equally invested, each partner takes equal care of shared rescources...:smthumbup:


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

I used to think as you do.. I felt finances SHOULD be joint in a marriage. I did trust, wholly, for 13 yrs and I got burned. Knowing what I know now, I wish we had kept separate finances. Now that the divorce is final, I will NEVER mix finances with anyone, ever again. I've learned the hard way.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL I love how you say it's not REAL if it's not joint.



OK.

We had no problems with money (the money he did blow was hidden anyway...cash...not in any account) and THANK GOD I never put accounts together.

I worked too hard for my career. Bills were paid (split) and if we needed extra, it was never a big deal.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

My wealthy STBXW always insisted on separate accounts. Now I don't know if it's a mantra with all rich people, but she always seemed to keep monetary tabs on what it was that everybody owed her ~ inclusive of interest.

But she was absolutely the last to ever pay up if she ever owed anything!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

We had three checking accounts:

One for her
One for me
One for common use items, utilities, etc.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> LOL I love how you say it's not REAL if it's not joint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Were as in no longer married?


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## OrangeCrush (Sep 12, 2012)

we have separate money and it's a non-issue. tbh i had no idea that sharing a bank account is even a common thing that people do. we each take out money for bills and rent- one month he pays all the bills, the next month i do it. it's easy and stress free. 

there IS trust with separate accounts. i trust that he is able to manage his money and make smart decisions with it, and he trusts me to do the same. i don't need to know or be asked every time he wants to buy something- i trust that he is responsible and wouldn't get into debt or waste money. if one of us needed money, of course the other would help. sometimes i treat him to things and sometimes he treats me. we don't have to share a bank account in order to share money. i think it's easier if we each just take care of our own accounts, and he agrees. if shared accounts work for other people, great.  everyone is different; there is no 'wrong way' to handle finances as long as both partners are in agreement and their plan works for them.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> LOL I love how you say it's not REAL if it's not joint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I worked to hard for MY...Are you still married?


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't agree with the that. The complete separate reflects a certain self-centeredness, while the complete share means one spouse can be at the mercy of another for even small purchase. The most effective one in my opinion has most of the money under joint control, but each has a little money of his or her own.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I was until he effed me over. Lied about everything, he said. Even the vows.

And it is my money. I put myself through college. Lived alone and had a career 10 years before meeting him. Why would I merge my money with someone upon marriage? I trusted him not to lie or cheat and he lied BIG TIME. God knows what he'd have done if he had access to ALL the money in our home. We made the same amount (always saw paystubs) and we paid the same amount in the home. Never argued about money until I found out the LIES about money. Holy crap.

THANK GOD I didn't merge anything. Thank god. This isn't 47 years ago when many women still needed a man for money. I didn't need any help financially when we got married. I didn't want any money.

Am I still married? Yep. But not for long. NOT because of money...but because he has been lying since we said "I do".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And I did work too hard for MY CAREER. It's not HIS career. He worked hard for his on his own. I wasn't a child when I got married.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

HeartbrokenW said:


> I used to think as you do.. I felt finances SHOULD be joint in a marriage. I did trust, wholly, for 13 yrs and I got burned. Knowing what I know now, I wish we had kept separate finances. Now that the divorce is final, I will NEVER mix finances with anyone, ever again. I've learned the hard way.


I realise you had serious issues with drug use and infidelity, but did you get seriously hurt financially by having a joint account?

Just curious
the woodchuck


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But to say a marriage isn't "real" unless it's joint is ridiculous.

That's like saying "It's not a real marriage unless you have sex every night." which my husband and I basically did for 5 years.

Too bad he's a big, godam liar.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> I don't agree with the that. The complete separate reflects a certain self-centeredness, while the complete share means one spouse can be at the mercy of another for even small purchase. The most effective one in my opinion has most of the money under joint control, but each has a little money of his or her own.


I used to say (jokingly)
"All of your money is your money"
"All of my money is your money"
"All of my overtime money is my money"

But that crashed when I got too much overtime.....

I decided early in marriage the one thing not worth fighting about was money....My wife had a good head on her shoulders and never pushed her spending....We never fought about finances, and it made for a much stonger marriage.

Currently we both have a joint account and debit cards for access to funds at any time. We never even mention money...My wife pays all the bills, and I don't even know the computer password to our account or the actual balance...We were planning to get granite countertops and I asked what liquid cash she had, and it was within a thousand bucks of what I expected....Close enough...She on the other hand balances to the last nickel every month...

I have more stuff than I will ever need, and can get anything either of us want with the click of a mouse. I am now retired, and a big part of my financial security is how well she managed our household over the years....

Mind you, I wasn't just along for the ride, My investing wisely, having my major stock investment split 2 for one twice, and then bailing with a 500% increase before the crash didn't hurt...

But she was always a real partner in every sense...

the woodchuck


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't think seperate accounts cause a problem. But it could say something about the mindset of the people in the marriage. It could be an indication of lack of unity, trust, or commitment. It could foster resentment if one makes a lot more money than the other.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Totally depends on the couple in question. No 'one size fits all' answer here.

My fiance and I and have almost completely separate finances, and we both want it to stay that way once married. We can see co-mingling in the far future, but at the moment we are both non-custodial parents and each have kids to raise successfully and it avoids arguments about diverting resources from one set of kids to the others. 

Both of us were burned financially by our first marriages (her ex- drove them into bankruptcy and mine squandered a half-million dollar nest-egg in a shockingly short time), and as a result we're more comfortable this way. We both have good paying careers (6-figure) and keep on top of our finances to the penny. We do have very good transparency with each other, and know each others current status as well as long term needs and goals. Not surprisingly, neither of our ex's have worked since divorced and have huge entitlement complexes when it comes to other people's money. 

I suspect where a person stands on this depends a lot on how much they bring to the table financially. If one earns all the bacon the attitudes will be very different than if both are economic equals.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Ex and I always had joint accounts, never had a money argument ever. We lived very well, Private schools, investment properties, travel etc. We both came into the marriage with fairly equal assets however my family did contribute financial to our lives as well (which is how my family operate). No trust issues at all when it came to money.
Even after we divorced we still had a joint account up till recently. We still own all our investment properties in joint names, we just trust each other.

But should I remarry it will be with a pre nup and I will continue with my own bank accounts. We would bring 50/50 into the marriage and buy property equally. I still have many years of very high fee paying education ahead for my kids and my partner does as well which will always be kept separate.

My situation is a bit out of the norm as I come from a very wealthy family (8 figure wealth) so there is a lot of future wealth to protect especially for my children and their future children.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Being ensconced in a divorce situation whereby my rather wealthy STBXW implemented a prenup in order to protect her wealth from community property laws as well as from her spouse, she has erroneously tried to make use of it to "charge me" for close to a quarter mil as her perceived estimate of "my share" of our marital expenses that I incurred over the 7-1/2 years of our marriage. But no addendum to that prenup was ever made nor any contract signed to ever stipulate that. 

Which, judging solely from her jaded perspective, leads me to greatly think that a prenup is little more than a legal instrument that speaks solely to "conditional love" in a marital union, much rather than the "unconditional" variety usually inherent within the scope of a normal married relationship!

In essence, it largely speaks to the fact that such people are far more in love with their assets rather than with their spouse or their betrothed.

So whatever happened to the marital vow taken before God and our brethren, to the effect of *"to love, honor, and cherish, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, until death do we part?"*


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Not sure if the pre nup was referenced to me. Firstly I am not religious so that part has no relevance. I did not have a pre nup with my first marriage and would not be so concerned about a marriage with children involved as assets are for their future.
The difference for me now is if I headed into a second marriage the main concern is to protect my children. In a second marriage we would contribute equally to the cost of housing and living. it has nothing to do with conditional or unconditional love for me, it is about my kids. If I didn't have a large asset base it would be a moot point.
My partner has his own wealth and responsibilities. I would still be pro joint accounts and contribute equally. 
I just see it as practical in second marriages.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

With my ex (not married but have a child) there was NOTHING WORSE than being dependent on someone for money. OMg. Just asking for 20 bucks was a effing NITEMARE. Never again.

There was a time i would have followd my husband into a cardboard box if that's where life took us.

I meant my vows. I never held money from him, he never held money from me. He did hide money in weird places in the house, and other lame shet.

I meant my vows. He didn't.

Lots of judgement coming from people who think they have the answers.  Keep your eyes on your own marriage and do what you think is right and let other people do the same. Dang.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Holland said:


> Not sure if the pre nup was referenced to me.


Holland, m'dear: My commentary was, in no way, intentionally directed at you! If it, in any way offended you, I humbly apologize as that was not my intent!

Rest assured that some of my very dearest friends are _uber_ wealthy("old established wealth") either still in their first or even second marriages, and without prenups.

STBXW("new wealth") amassed her upper seven figure wealth not long before the end of her first marriage. Coming from having been raised in a comfortable middle class setting, she resorted to taking her wealthy drug-addled first husband, who was a corporate VP to the cleaners by having him sign an unlimited power of attorney shortly before shipping him off to rehab, where she legally drained close to 75% of his money and investments into a private account of hers. She then divorced him getting to keep all of that money per the POA, and then claimed half of his remaining assets under community property.

It did not completely break him, but he died from chronic alcoholism not long before we were married. I never really found out about any of this until being told about it by a mutual friend, through a "Freudian slip," roughly some two years into our marriage.

In essence, I feel that where a person once was historically, and the methodology of how they came to procure their wealth speaks volumes about them. 

But, then again, I was younger, stupid, completely trusting, and in love with her, not for her wealth, but for my perception of her Christian mantra as well as for her internal and external loving values.

How disappointing it was to actually find out the type of woman that she really was under that deceptive facade of hers!


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## luvintokyo (May 10, 2010)

Been a member for a while but feel I must contribute to Woodchuck's question. Got married at 26 already with 100,000dollars liquid, husband spent it all in a breeze, surrendered everything to "togetherness", worked made six figure sums most of our marriage was the saver he was the spender, he was always finding new projects to spend money on, refused to do a 401k, refused to save for college funds, spent us into oblivion. I continued to do "joint account" till we had no more savings, then he started spending the home equity to the tune of $150000. He is on his own now and still financially incompetent , got divorced. Sometimes we don't start that way but life shapes us. I am left to fend for 3kids whereas if I started with a different kind of thinking I will be in a different position. Was married for 18yrs for which I was the main breadwinner, paid all bills and managed the house. Still does. If I do get married again I will definitely not go in with same mind set.


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## luvintokyo (May 10, 2010)

Its easy to be judgemental and say 'for better for worse', but we are all humans, if the other person is financially incompetent will you go into bankruptcy and homeless for a man or woman? Has anybody here read the book "The Glass Castle"? It paints the picture perfectly of a woman that chose to stay and what happened to the kids. More power to those women.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Holland, m'dear: My commentary was, in no way, intentionally directed at you! If it, in any way offended you, I humbly apologize as that was not my intent!
> 
> ........


No problem at all, as your post came after mine that mentioned pre nups I thought it may have been in reference but wasn't sure. I'm sorry to hear your story. Do you have children with her? Are their financial futures taken care of?
As I said a pre nup to me is more about the children and their futures. I am not a showy, glam, spending type of person and am more concerned that my kids have good financial futures. Where I live we have the most expensive housing in the world, my kids will need a mil just to buy an average house if they want to stay within 20 k's of the city. So yes I will do what I need in order to protect them financially. 
SO and I are on the same page with this.


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

Disagree with the initial post. Depends on the type of people they are and why they want to have joint accounts. I'm not afraid of being screwed over but I guess we just haven't reached that point yet. I can see it happening in the future, however, it's not a big deal right now.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Holland said:


> No problem at all, as your post came after mine that mentioned pre nups I thought it may have been in reference but wasn't sure. I'm sorry to hear your story. *Do you have children with her? Are their financial futures taken **care of? *


No, maam! It was a second marriage for both. She has three kids that are adult delinquents, high school dropouts, and who are fastly slaves to the drug, tattoo, and the "goth culture." STBXW got to the point that she resented mine being well educated, college bound young men, despite the fact that she paid for some of their educational expenses. She never disciplined her kids, had them all at one time or another physically abuse her out of disrespect, but were the first to come running to her afterward for their drug, tattoo, or even bail money.

Those louts of hers refuse to work and are doing nothing more than laying in wait for her, her financially well-to-do Mother and her Mother-in-law to kick off so they can garner lucrative inheritances from them to largely sustain their dopehead lifestyle.

By comparison, I may well be a relatively poor guy financially, but I feel that I'm beyond rich in my ardent faith and love in God, and in the love of my sons, my family, and all of my friends!


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> It looks to me like the majority of marriages that have serious money troubles are the "Your money My money" arrangements...
> 
> Having been married for 47 years and always having joint accounts, I cannot fathom a marriage where each "partner" managed their own finances....
> 
> It is no a real partnership with separate finances.....


Woodchuck, I really liked your post on the other thread about this as well.

My parents were also just how you described your own relationship. My Dad worked, my mom handled all the finances..When she passed he didn't even know how much was in the accounts, although it was quite a bit. I think the above scenario is the ultimate in a relationship.

Since my wife and I are a young couple, we hang out with other young couples. Most often the husband works, and the wife stays home with the kids..I can tell you none of them have joint accounts, or if they do there is constant battling over money.

Have times changed? I mean there are always exceptions, but I never met any women that had any interest in saving, investing, calling to dispute bills, balancing a check book etc. None of my friends wives do any of the above. When they spend money it is typically in a wasteful way.. Buying the most expensive food, wanting to eat out 4 nights a week etc.

The same can apply to raising children.. My grandmom raised 12 kids, but women today, even if they stay home, seem to be so overly stressed with 1. If they have 2 it is like they need a nanny, prozac, or daycare for them a day or 2 a week.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

just_about_done said:


> I don't think seperate accounts cause a problem. But it could say something about the mindset of the people in the marriage. * It could be an indication of lack of unity, trust, or commitment.* It could foster resentment if one makes a lot more money than the other.


Or it could be an indication of unity, trust and commitment. 

And it could be an indication of practicality, realism, and planning.

A couple that has worked out how to handle their finances so both are comfortable and happy with the arrangements is a couple that knows how to communicate, compromise and treat each other fairly.


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## Rascal (Mar 29, 2013)

I got this one! Personal experience here. My first wife and I had a joint account. She was a spender and I was a saver. I never felt I could buy anything I wanted because I always felt "we" were spending too much money. Plus, whenever she came home and showed me one of her new treasures, I got upset. I was jealous that I could never buy anything I wanted AND I usually thought she was just wasting our money on something we didn't need. 

So, when I got remarried. I mandated to my new young wife that we were going to have separate accounts and that has proved to be the best decision I have EVER made. Once my wife started working and had an income, she started spending money. She quickly found out how fast it went. She came crying to me one day with her pay stub in hand and asked me what YTD meant. I explained that was how much money she had made so far this year. She wailed "I only have $16 in my checking account!" Ever since then she has been tighter than tight. (Pennies scream when they see her coming.) We still have separate accounts now although we can access each others if we have to. It's not about trust. It's about reducing the number of things to fight about. Now, if we fight about money, it's about who will pay for something and that happens before we buy it. Often, we negotiate how much each will contribute in buying a new furnace or something. And anything is on the table. I once paid her car insurance to avoid cleaning the bathroom - LOL.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> No, maam! It was a second marriage for both. She has three kids that are adult delinquents, high school dropouts, and who are fastly slaves to the drug, tattoo, and the "goth culture." STBXW got to the point that she resented mine being well educated, college bound young men, despite the fact that she paid for some of their educational expenses. She never disciplined her kids, had them all at one time or another physically abuse her out of disrespect, but were the first to come running to her afterward for their drug, tattoo, or even bail money.
> 
> Those louts of hers refuse to work and are doing nothing more than laying in wait for her, her financially well-to-do Mother and her Mother-in-law to kick off so they can garner lucrative inheritances from them to largely sustain their dopehead lifestyle.
> 
> *By comparison, I may well be a relatively poor guy financially, but I feel that I'm beyond rich in my ardent faith and love in God, and in the love of my sons, my family, and all of my friends!*


And by comparison to many you have riches that are worth more than money 

My kids have no clue what their financial future holds for them, they do not know that they will be by default extremely wealthy in the future. Ex and I are raising them to be independent adults, hard workers and all round good citizens. More important to be happy, loving and loved than a big cash slasher. 
The head start they are getting from us is a good education and unlimited love.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

We've been married almost 23 years and only in the past 7 have we had a joint account, before that everything was separate. I don't feel like I'm more married now because of the joint account. I can't remember having one fight about money either.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Have times changed? I mean there are always exceptions, but I never met any women that had any interest in saving, investing, calling to dispute bills, balancing a check book etc. None of my friends wives do any of the above. When they spend money it is typically in a wasteful way.. Buying the most expensive food, wanting to eat out 4 nights a week etc.


WOW! I'm glad i'm not like those women. I can budget 20 bucks to spread over 3 days of meals for 4 people. I balanced my checkbook, have savings (before I was being garnished for STBX's bullshet), I pay the bills, manage the house, bargain hunter all the way. Mom raised me well. No time to squander funds.

You know lame women.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

that_girl said:


> WOW! I'm glad i'm not like those women. I can budget 20 bucks to spread over 3 days of meals for 4 people. I balanced my checkbook, have savings (before I was being garnished for STBX's bullshet), I pay the bills, manage the house, bargain hunter all the way. Mom raised me well. No time to squander funds.
> 
> You know lame women.


Is it because you guys do not have much money to spend? Or is money plentiful and you choose to be frugal?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, money is tight right now. He had a pay cut 2 years ago and it hasn't been the same. But we got our mortgage lowered so that helps.

I just like to get nice stuff for cheaper than retail. It's ridiculous what people spend on something that isn't worth what they paid. Like clothes and shoes, especially for children who will outgrow it in a couple of months.

We have a nice home and the kids don't want for anything, but they aren't spoiled either.

Our bills are paid, food in kitchen, some money in savings. 

I can't complain.

But I don't spend ridiculously nor do I not have any interest in finances. I love that I can go to the market with 100 bucks and make that work for 8 days of breakfast, lunch and dinner (I cook from scratch so maybe that's why...processed food is expensive.)

I would just never give all the power to one person in a relationship. I trusted he'd take care of his business (and he did) and I took care of mine.

It wasn't until I found out about his financial lies that I got suspicious and HAPPY that we don't have bank accounts together.

His loans (with nothing to show for them)
His 401k that he hid in another account or in the house...not sure.

And more.

SO even if you have joint everything, a shady person is still shady.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Anubis said:


> Totally depends on the couple in question. No 'one size fits all' answer here.
> 
> My fiance and I and have almost completely separate finances, and we both want it to stay that way once married. We can see co-mingling in the far future, but at the moment we are both non-custodial parents and each have kids to raise successfully and it avoids arguments about diverting resources from one set of kids to the others.
> 
> ...


It sounds like what you are doing works well for you. I can understand how with two sets of kids, and 2 ex's in the background money matters might get convoluted. I guess it could be a real windfall for kids, inheriting from 2 sets of parents... 

I am from the older generation, where marriages were forever and always, and divorce lawyers were a starving minority...As for your ex's, it is amazing how many people in our culture feel in some way ENTITLED. Too bad things are so soft Darwinism can't cull the herd...I was raised by parents who saw the great depression, and know what no safety net means. 

Being retired, I can understand how lots of people could dismiss me as a smug old geezer, who made his, and wants to tell others how to run their own business. Or too old to understand "MODERN FINANCE". I just feel the inherent simplicity of a joint account arrangement reduces conflict, and provides an opportunity to develop trust between the partners, while the "separate finances" school can foster an atmosphere of mistrust, and selfishness. 

I hear a too much "that's not fair", and "I pay too much". Couples wreck their relationship with petty bickering and worrying about what *they* are doing with *MY* money..

In your case, with a comfortable income on both sides, that is not an issue....

I guess my wife and I are a match made in heaven, I am generous by nature, and she is frugal...She handles the day to day finances, and I handle the investments. From each according to his/her abilities, to each according to his/her needs.....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

We never fought about money.

Even when he effed up (wow) i have never thrown it in his face.

My grandmother was from that generation of marriage is for life. Sadly for her, it was 63 years of hell.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> We've been married almost 23 years and only in the past 7 have we had a joint account, before that everything was separate. I don't feel like I'm more married now because of the joint account. I can't remember having one fight about money either.


Obviously you are in a relationship where both partners are mature enough to deal with reality, and don't get bogged down with selfish money fights....

Your relationship is stable enough to see a common goal, and work as a team to accomplish it....

Its people like you that have divorce lawyers waking up at 3:00 AM with cold sweats.... 

Good luck
the woodchuck


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

My parents had a joint account and they fought about money. Against his wishes, my mom got a job and opened up her own bank account and things got quiet.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

luvintokyo said:


> Been a member for a while but feel I must contribute to Woodchuck's question. Got married at 26 already with 100,000dollars liquid, husband spent it all in a breeze, surrendered everything to "togetherness", worked made six figure sums most of our marriage was the saver he was the spender, he was always finding new projects to spend money on, refused to do a 401k, refused to save for college funds, spent us into oblivion. I continued to do "joint account" till we had no more savings, then he started spending the home equity to the tune of $150000. He is on his own now and still financially incompetent , got divorced. Sometimes we don't start that way but life shapes us. I am left to fend for 3kids whereas if I started with a different kind of thinking I will be in a different position. Was married for 18yrs for which I was the main breadwinner, paid all bills and managed the house. Still does. If I do get married again I will definitely not go in with same mind set.


I know love is blind, but didn't you see that coming waaaaay early? At least you can be a spectator to his "crash and burn" act.

Unfurtunately no accounting system will work when one partner is an idiot....I hope you have a large enough salt shaker to sprinkle on his road rash post crash....:smthumbup:


Good kuck
the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> With my ex (not married but have a child) there was NOTHING WORSE than being dependent on someone for money. OMg. Just asking for 20 bucks was a effing NITEMARE. Never again.
> 
> There was a time i would have followd my husband into a cardboard box if that's where life took us.
> 
> ...


I will give you my one size fits all answer. It applies to most relationships where one PARTNER is too flawed to survive in any situation...

I know love is blind, but didn't you see that coming waaaaay early? At least you can be a spectator to his "crash and burn" act.

Unfurtunately no system will work when one partner is an idiot....I hope you have a large salt shaker to sprinkle on his road rash when he crashes....:smthumbup::smthumbup:


Good luck
the woodchuck


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He was not who he is now: A man beaten down by his past and not addressing them.

He had lived on his own for 6 years when I met him. Had bills and credit cards. A good card. Never fell behind on anything. Budgeting fine.

Then...something set in him where he felt he DESERVED things we couldn't afford. Things that take the back burner when a new couple has children, a mortgage, pets...

ANd he started sneaking money... and this broke my trust. Coming home with HUGE purchases (like a car) and there I was struggling with money for food after he said he was broke. Sure, his bank account LOOKED BROKE...but then, there was that car that he said was 1500 but turns out was 5000. Cash.

People change. I wouldn't have married him had I seen the problems he'd have with money.

Thankfully over the years, I never went in on any loans with him or anything.

I feel smart for that.

But he is crashing and burning. In more ways than one.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

that_girl said:


> He was not who he is now: A man beaten down by his past and not addressing them.
> 
> He had lived on his own for 6 years when I met him. Had bills and credit cards. A good card. Never fell behind on anything. Budgeting fine.
> 
> Then...something set in him where he felt he DESERVED things we couldn't afford. Things that take the back burner when a new couple has children, a mortgage, pets...


This is a good point. People have things in life that change them.. I think when my wife's brother died at 40 she started to view life in a different manner, which meant less emphasis on saving and thinking about life when we are 70.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

SepticChange said:


> Disagree with the initial post. Depends on the type of people they are and why they want to have joint accounts. I'm not afraid of being screwed over but I guess we just haven't reached that point yet. I can see it happening in the future, however, it's not a big deal right now.


I agree, when both partners are responsible It's no big deal...

I just get so tired of posts where two incompitents move in together, married or not and try to SHARE the expense of running a household, when they couldn't figure out their share of the tab at MickyD's....It's like two people in a sinking boat arguing about who is bailing with the larger bucket....and yelling at the top of their voices *"IT'S NOT FAIR"*

In a partnership, each bails according to his/her ability, and winning is getting to shore without drowning....
Stay dry

good luck
the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> No, maam! It was a second marriage for both. She has three kids that are adult delinquents, high school dropouts, and who are fastly slaves to the drug, tattoo, and the "goth culture." STBXW got to the point that she resented mine being well educated, college bound young men, despite the fact that she paid for some of their educational expenses. She never disciplined her kids, had them all at one time or another physically abuse her out of disrespect, but were the first to come running to her afterward for their drug, tattoo, or even bail money.
> 
> Those louts of hers refuse to work and are doing nothing more than laying in wait for her, her financially well-to-do Mother and her Mother-in-law to kick off so they can garner lucrative inheritances from them to largely sustain their dopehead lifestyle.
> 
> By comparison, I may well be a relatively poor guy financially, but I feel that I'm beyond rich in my ardent faith and love in God, and in the love of my sons, my family, and all of my friends!


"THE BEST WAY TO ASSURE YOU WILL BE PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED BY YOUR ADULT CHILDREN IS TO NEVER PHYSICALLY ASSAULT THEIR BACKSIDE WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG.... 

I am a wicked stepfather. He was 18 months old when I married his mother...I spanked him when he needed it. Twice I think...Today he is 45, and a good man and citizen...I am proud to call him son.......He would step in front of a bullet to save me. 

I think all children need to know there is a power greater than themselves and his name is DAD......I hate to see an adult abuse a child, but it is a form of child abuse to not teach them boundaries and limits. When an adult argues with a child he puts the child on equal footing with an adult.

My dad is 97 years old. He is sitting in my recliner across the living room. I manage his healthcare, help him shower, fix his meals, give him his cookies, serve him his applesauce, and cut his meat.....He spanked me as a child....Probably 3-4 times....He lives in total ease, watching the cowboys on my bigscreen 10 hours a day. He dosn't have a worry in the world....

Before you criticize me show me a kid raised on timeout, and pre-packaged self esteem who would care for a parent like that...

P.S. I like applesauce too

good luck
the woodchuck


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> It sounds like what you are doing works well for you. I can understand how with two sets of kids, and 2 ex's in the background money matters might get convoluted. I guess it could be a real windfall for kids, inheriting from 2 sets of parents...
> 
> I am from the older generation, where marriages were forever and always, and divorce lawyers were a starving minority...As for your ex's, it is amazing how many people in our culture feel in some way ENTITLED. Too bad things are so soft Darwinism can't cull the herd...I was raised by parents who saw the great depression, and know what no safety net means.
> 
> ...


Never took it the wrong way or as 'old fashioned'. Both of us did the joint account/expecting it to last with a person of similar values things the first time around - that makes a whole lot of sense when one person is running a home / raising a family. With our setup we each are independently able to make big fiscal decisions regarding our kids, etc.

As others have noted here, we're seeing a lot of young people today who lack not only financial discipline, but a whole lot more - from an understanding of how basic finances work to a financial 'work ethic' of watching and knowing every inflow and outflow, even just general maturity. I came along when my father was 22. At that time, most men in his position buckled down and got all serious and 'adult' about life and responsibility (He certainly did). Today, I see guys and gals much older than that still living at home or not fully supporting themselves because they don't have to. Their parents made their own lives a lot harder by making things easier for their children and delaying or softening adulthood for them. I worry about the next generation, and am doing what I can to equip my kids for a harsh world. 

Entitlement complexes are pervasive today....

When I divorced, I got all the debt and my ex- got a clean start. She also got a down payment on her 'dream house' in the country and most of our retirement assets so she could qualify for the mortgage (no way in hell was I going to co-sign anything, and she was using custody of the kids as a hammer) She also got most of the furnishings, and a new SUV, and a bunch of new stuff for the house. Then for a few years I was paying my ex- almost 5K a month in alimony and child support (and she had my COBRA for 3 years). She also had just gotten her degree before the and told everyone she was going to become a teacher. I made a point of telling her repeatedly (and so that everyone else knew) that she had a great opportunity in her 'fresh start' to get ahead, and that she should get her teaching certification and a job right away and she'll be in tall cotton soon with lots of savings, a nice house, etc.

Want to guess how all that turned out for her and why?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I am from the older generation, where marriages were forever and always, and divorce lawyers were a starving minority...As for your ex's, it is amazing how many people in our culture feel in some way ENTITLED. Too bad things are so soft Darwinism can't cull the herd...I was raised by parents who saw the great depression, and know what no safety net means.
> 
> I hear too much "that's not fair", and "I pay too much". Couples wreck their relationship with petty bickering and worrying about what *they* are doing with *MY* money..
> 
> ...


Yeah, Woodchuck! We both come from that bygone era of yesteryear; where divorce and criminal defense attorneys were the absolute scourge of society. Sadly, both have become an institution with society's ever-changing mores.

In my case, I was a federal employee at a GS-10 to 12 who took early retirement to marry a quite wealthy woman, who assured me that "don't worry~ you won't ever have to work again."~Who encouraged me to golf for exercise and then bought me a country club membership.

The price? "Just sign this little prenup, honey, and all will be good." 

Then she comes to find out about the many advantages of FB and then fastly reconnects with two men from her past, an old HS flame(EA), and a best friend of her deceased first husband(EA/PA). Unbeknownst to me and sleeping with at least two of us simultaneously for at least 10 months. 

Then I'm abandoned, but in her initial decree of divorce, she tries to charge me 250k for my share of the marital expenses for our 7-1/2 years of marriage under her misguided perception of the prenup. I can't get any of her community property or her assets per the prenup, but she can go after what very little that I have left? Hell, I can't even use infidelity against her because the state says that all prenups are largely governed by no-fault divorce rules.

Like you, Chucky~ I'm old school, where a man's word was as good as it gets, only up until the time that my rich STBXW got that unbearable itch between her loins to feel something new and strange!


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I disagree with the OP's thoughts on this and the assumptions behind these thoughts.

it depends on the laws where you live but I've always assumed that unless there is a pre-nup, everything is shared regardless of the name on the account so trust is not part of the issue at all. We have jointly owned day-to-day accounts but keep two -one that I use and the other that she uses.

We both have different money management habits so keeping it separate avoids arguments. We agreed on the big things: how much we each save automatically per month and who pays which bills (adjusted for our different incomes). With the big things working as agreed, the separation is only about the small things. For example, I don't care how much she paid for her shoes, etc and she knows that she's responsible for her own budgeting so if she overspends on shoes, she'll need to watch it on other things. If we had a joint account then we would need to coordinate this kind of budgeting across both of us (a recipe for a lot of arguments and finances that are too hard to control).

We both have access to each others records (kept jointly on our computer) if we need to review but we never have the need to 'investigate' each others accounts since we know that we are keeping to our agreed financial goals for amount saved per month. Nothing is kept secret.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> It sounds like what you are doing works well for you. I can understand how with two sets of kids, and 2 ex's in the background money matters might get convoluted. I guess it could be a real windfall for kids, inheriting from 2 sets of parents...
> 
> 
> This made me laugh because it's so true. One reason my kids gave for not wanting to come see me was that I didn't take them out and buy them things like their mother did. She had a rental property that was the house we had together from the divorce, a job, child support, and a husband with a job and his own house. Where was I going to get the money to spend on the "toys" they wanted? I could barely make ends meet and I worked 50 or more hours a week, every week.
> ...





Woodchuck said:


> Obviously you are in a relationship where both partners are mature enough to deal with reality, and don't get bogged down with selfish money fights....
> 
> Your relationship is stable enough to see a common goal, and work as a team to accomplish it....
> 
> ...





Woodchuck said:


> I will give you my one size fits all answer. It applies to most relationships where one PARTNER is too flawed to survive in any situation...
> 
> I know love is blind, but didn't you see that coming waaaaay early? At least you can be a spectator to his "crash and burn" act.
> 
> ...


So true it hurts. The dream which drives us to want marriage overshadows reality. I am guilty of believing in this dream, too.


Woodchuck,

Thanks for this thread. It made me see some things that I was thinking. I think it leads to more questions about ages of the posters and their parents. There's more, too. I bet you have questions which can only be asked delicately, too. Oh well, we are on a forum full of folks with emotions and confusion running very high. I fully understand those emotions and the confusion.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

My parents have been married for nearly 40 years. They have had separate accounts as far back as I can remember. From what they have told us girls, they had a brief time when they had a joint account, but learned that separate was easier for them. Dad was a truck driver. When he was on the road, he needed to be sure he could access the funds in the account without messing things up at home. He made sure to send money home to mom so bills got paid, though.

Now that both are unable to work, they get disability. They still maintain separate accounts. One month dad may pay the rent and mom may make the car payment. The next month, it switches. The money may be in separate accounts, but the financial obligations are shared, equally.

My parents haven't ever considered divorce/separation. There've been no occurrences which would even consider this course of action. However, my husband and I came close to that last year... and our account has always been a joint account. So, no, I don't see any correlation between marital problems and whether or not the couple has a joint account. That makes no difference, IMO.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

In a strict sense, it's the difference between a partnership and a 'tenant in common'.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

LOL


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> It looks to me like the majority of marriages that have serious money troubles are the "Your money My money" arrangements...
> 
> Having been married for 47 years and always having joint accounts, I cannot fathom a marriage where each "partner" managed their own finances....
> 
> ...


My only *confusion* with your post is that YOU are the sole bread winner, and your wife is a SAHM. That means she brings $0 into your bank account, and would have nothing to manage financially. Therefore, if it wasn't for YOUR income, she'd have nothing. In your situation, it sounds to me like you make the money, and she manages it (pays the bills, does the shopping, etc.??) Is that right?  If your 50/50 = your income to her keeping house, raising the kids, etc. then that is understandable. But you make 100% of the income to her 0%. That's not 50/50 to me..................JMO.

My hubs and I have our own (no joint) bank accounts. We also have our own credit cards - none are shared. He's self-employed and I work full time. We have one daughter. We split our mortgage in half, and all finances relating to our house and daughter....we each pay our half. The rest of our money, we spend/save how we want. Big purchases (TVs, furniture, etc for the house) we split. We each have our own cars paid for out of each our accounts (his is his, mine is mine). Our boat is split in half just like the house. We have no issues at all with this arrangement. I'd hate to think that I'd have to "ask" to go shopping for clothes or shoes and be watched like a hawk and how much money is spent on said items. I work, so I earn those luxuries for myself. We also share house duties (cleaning, laundry, etc.)


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

southern wife said:


> My only *confusion* with your post is that YOU are the sole bread winner, and your wife is a SAHM. That means she brings $0 into your bank account, and would have nothing to manage financially. Therefore, if it wasn't for YOUR income, she'd have nothing. In your situation, it sounds to me like you make the money, and she manages it (pays the bills, does the shopping, etc.??) Is that right?  If your 50/50 = your income to her keeping house, raising the kids, etc. then that is understandable. But you make 100% of the income to her 0%. That's not 50/50 to me..................JMO.
> 
> My hubs and I have our own (no joint) bank accounts. We also have our own credit cards - none are shared. He's self-employed and I work full time. We have one daughter. We split our mortgage in half, and all finances relating to our house and daughter....we each pay our half. The rest of our money, we spend/save how we want. Big purchases (TVs, furniture, etc for the house) we split. We each have our own cars paid for out of each our accounts (his is his, mine is mine). Our boat is split in half just like the house. We have no issues at all with this arrangement. I'd hate to think that I'd have to "ask" to go shopping for clothes or shoes and be watched like a hawk and how much money is spent on said items. I work, so I earn those luxuries for myself. We also share house duties (cleaning, laundry, etc.)


That would be correct if a marriage were a business operated for profit.......It is not. I guess some people could put a dollar value on a SAHM, homemaker, confidant, companion, and ardent and passionate lover, I find it beyond price...

In our marriage, my wife would never think to ASK me if she could buy ANYTHING....we discuss large purchaces because we both have input...

I picked my sports car (Mustang GT)...She picked her Impala sedan, I bought her Ford Explorer for a gift, and we bought her Nissan Pathfinder for her sales job.....

When I bought my boat...18 ft deep V SC...She gave me the Explorer for a tow vehicle...Give, and take ebb and flow...

In the past 5 years we have had a new roof installed, new heat and air, energy effecient windows, gutters and downspouts, soffet and fascia, new kitchen appliances, and now we are pricing granite countertops....We both discuss cost, quality, features we want...we both have opinions and we respect each others input. I look for suppliers and contractors online, she makes the phone calls, and we decide together......

I wanted black granite, she wanted a light gray with black figure....We brought samples home......I agreed her choice would also look great, and this morning she made up her mind on the black....We are having them come in to do the measurements this week....

She wants new living room furniture, and I am out of the loop...I could care less what she picks, as long as it is of good quality and sturdy...She gets to go crazy in the furniture store, and I write the check....We are both happy....

I came home with an Italian beauty....A Baretta O/U shotgun...
It is elegant and svelt...She was not jealous.....

I am due to inherit a substantial sum...Enough to be debt free, own some rental property, and indulge in some luxuries, travel, cruises, etc....She will be my partner in that as well.....

Since I have retired, I do most of the cooking and grocery shopping, she cleans and does laundry....I mow the grass, and do the heavy lifting, she tends the flower beds.....

I could not be happier with my wife, and my marriage. We don't think of it as yours or mine, everything is ours, the relationship is a whole comprised of two equally valuable halves.....It just works for us.....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> LOL


I agree...who cares how people manage their money. It's their money.

I've known people to divorce with some HORRIBLE divorces  and they had a joint account.

I've known people who are happy, and NO bank account (keep money in the home).

But really, who cares. Their money, their marriage.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> That would be correct if a marriage were a business operated for profit.......It is not. I guess some people could put a dollar value on a SAHM, homemaker, confidant, companion, and ardent and passionate lover, I find it beyond price...
> 
> In our marriage, my wife would never think to ASK me if she could buy ANYTHING....we discuss large purchaces because we both have input...
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, our house is "our" house. Our 21' cabin cruiser, is "our" boat (although it's in my name only). I, too, stand to inherit a large sum of money, and it will be "our" money, but in my bank account, since it's coming from my family. A portion of it will be used towards our daughter's education. The rest will be for our retirement.

My point here is, just because we have separate accounts doesn't mean that we are not a "team" in our marriage and our parenting. It works for us and we are happy with it. Our marriage is not operated like a "business"; we don't think "yours/mine"...we think "ours". Everyone is different! And the world goes 'round and 'round!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Me & mine has always had JOINT everything... if his name is on it, so is mine...the notion to separate has never even enterted our thinking... I am even a bit more frugal over him.....if the kids want something ...they try to finagle something with him 1st, so he can talk me into it. 

We've always been careful savers - since before we were married.....never been late on one bill in 23 yrs together... I handle all the finances (also the SAHM), I've never bounced a check either....I don't think he has written one in years .

We wouldn't be considered rich by society's standards... but we've always felt we had things pretty darn good......(always had $$ to fall back on -for whatever we wanted, needed, any given time)...We managed to be Debt free by our last son....just in time for the oldest to go off to College...

Everything we contemplate buying, the BIG STUFF... home improvements, another car, etc...I/we gather all the necessary details, do our research, get prices/ estimates ....... we sit down together...discuss in detail....weigh the pros & cons..how this will affect our finances...before we forge ahead.....This has always been what works for our Marriage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Trust me! I've been in marriages with both joint accounts and separate accounts with tie-ins to the other spouse.

They both have the marked capability of working~ all that it takes is trust and communication with your spouse, absent, of course, any hidden or clandestine monetary or social agenda of infidelity exercised by either spouse!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

norajane said:


> Or it could be an indication of unity, trust and commitment.
> 
> And it could be an indication of practicality, realism, and planning.
> 
> A couple that has worked out how to handle their finances so both are comfortable and happy with the arrangements is a couple that knows how to communicate, compromise and treat each other fairly.


Agreed.

My husband and I met young. I was a saver, he was a spender. When we initially moved in together, we had separate accounts and things worked well enough as to fair contributions with bills and such ....but saving and waiting to afford something was a foreign concept for him. We both felt frustrations with money in the early days. I wouldn't combine accounts until I saw progress with how he handled his spending. He stopped using his credit card and started learning how to budget. We did this together. It was then that we abandoned our separate accounts and got a joint account.

This has worked well for us. If I hadn't seen him wanting to change his spending ways though, I wouldn't have gone the joint account route. In my opinion, you gotta follow your heart without losing your head. Finances deserve a business head. Why would I share and invest with a business partner who'd potentially squander and get us into debt? He had a different feeling on this than me but thankfully we did get on the same page.

And not that this was just all my call. He understood my reservations and at the same time he wanted to learn/gain understanding how to handle finances smarter for himself. I guess I also understood why he desired for us to combine and have a joint account. Over time we've developed a balance between us. He's more a risk-taker and that's helped us, and my nature to save has also helped us. I'm the one that pays the bills and such but together we are both involved. We only discuss big purchases which seems to work with how we respectfully approach things and consider one another/our house-hold.

However.... if I were in an alternate universe and found myself starting over in a new relationship, I think I'd be inclined to keep things separate. I'd expect the other person to know how to handle their business and I'd handle mine yet still with the anticipated outcome of 'ours'. For some reason it bothered me growing up that my mother didn't know about their financials, even though my father was generous and saw she was looked after post-divorce, I would have liked to have seen her take more active responsibility, and that no doubt plays a part with my approach and mind set.


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## love2laugh (Sep 16, 2012)

Thought provoking post... I never considered what my marriage might have been like had we shared accounts from the get go. 

I have to admit I think it would have been good for us. I think it forces more accountability and honesty in the relationship. It probably would have brought on more discussions about saving for our future which we really needed to have. We both just saved on our own... and thinking about it now, I'm not sure a couple is totally committed to each other if they only have separate accounts, having a joint account speaks volumes.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

My W and I each have seperate checking accounts. I am a divorcee who pays child support and when the EXW (every two years like clockwork) wants to 'see' if she can extract more from me in child support, she files for financial discovery. I have to disclose all assets in my name including joint accounts. For this reason, I also file my taxes married seperately. It costs more in taxes then joint filers. I don't want my current W's finances/income to have to be disclosed to my EXW nor should my W be made to suffer because we combine assets then that gets used/considered by a judge for my EXW's benefit.

**To clarify, I must, by court order, give my EXW my tax return, W2's, and any 1099's. Even joint investments could be subject to back-support if my wife puts my name to it. This is NOT an effort to skirt child support as I pay my 20% as required by IL Law, this is an attempt to shield my W's money that she has earned**


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

pbjporvida said:


> I swish & hope that one day we can have a joint account but for now its not going to happen!
> 
> I take home a lil over $3200 a month
> mortgage $1200
> ...


First thing I'd do is stop paying for her gas. How is your fuel 800?! PM me for a little advice if you want.


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

It boggles my mind that someone can make a lifelong vow of love, loyalty and fidelity...before God and family...toward their spouse. That this person can have children with their spouse. That this person can build a home and an entire life with their spouse. But never trust that spouse enough to become a true team and combine their financial lives. You will give your life, time, talents, love, sex and share children with someone but you will not combine finances?

Finances are team work. A marriage between two people should ideally reflect that.

People have a right to do what works for them, and I'm not here to say otherwise. But I don't think I could ever understand it. You're bonded physically and spiritually for life but you can't share a bank account? That's just not how I function, and it confuses me. A lot.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

My husband's money is my money and mine is his. We play on the same team, so we only have one account. We've been married for 18 years now, I don't think we'll ever need a second account.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I think people need to mind their own damn business and worry about what's best for their marriages. Nothing like a bunch of people with sh*tty marriages, all over TAM balling their eyes out over their failing matrimony, who still feel they're in the place to judge what other couples should do with their finances. 

Because the vast majority of people heading toward divorce, and those who are separated, or together, but in loveless, sexless, crappy marriages have joint accounts.

If a joint account was some kind of protection against bad marriages, we wouldn't be dealing with a raging divorce epidemic at this very moment.

- Signed a husband with his own account, married to a woman with her own account, who has zero money fights in his marriage


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

More often than not, financial problems in marriage stem from trust issues, not account ownership. If there is a lack of trust, no financial arrangement will be completly satisfactory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

Personally, it's really hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of separate accounts. Until I started reading here, I didn't realize it was so common! I've never known anybody...or anybody who admitted to...having separate accounts. It's really difficult for me to understand.

I would never, ever marry someone who didn't feel they could co-mingle ALL of their life with mine.

That being said - that's ME lol

If two people can make a happy life together...and both are satisfied with having separate accounts...so be it. If that's what makes it work for them, God bless them.

It wouldn't be for me though.

In my last marriage, I don't think we ever fought about money once until the divorce (ha!) In my current marriage, marriage isn't usually an issue. My husband earns quite a bit more than I, but I am the tightwad. We occasional have minor "fusses" over this, but it's not a major sticking point.

What it boils down to...and yes, it's PC...but what works, works. Couples have to figure that out for themselves. 

The *main thing* is maintaining a happy marriage. If separate accounts make that happen, then that's what they should do.


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

pbjporvida said:


> I take home a lil over $3200 a month
> mortgage $1200
> car & house insurance $250
> cellphones (mine her's & kids) $250
> ...


$250 a month on phones?! I don't know about what sort of phone contracts or pay as you go deals are available in the u.s, but that seems ridiculous.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I have 4 iPhones on an unlimited voice text and 6gb shared data and its about 250 a month with taxes and everything.


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## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

jaquen said:


> I think people need to mind their own damn business and worry about what's best for their marriages. Nothing like a bunch of people with sh*tty marriages, all over TAM balling their eyes out over their failing matrimony, who still feel they're in the place to judge what other couples should do with their finances.
> 
> Because the vast majority of people heading toward divorce, and those who are separated, or together, but in loveless, sexless, crappy marriages have joint accounts.
> 
> ...



Co-sign. Apparently some believe that for all people the fact that they don't share a bank account is because they don't trust their partner. I trust mine. I just don't see the need to have a joint bank account. Reminds me of a conversation I had a few weeks ago with people who think it's an abomination if a woman doesn't take her husband's last name as if it makes them less married. (rolling my eyes)

Blame my age for these "liberal" views if you wish.


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## Sennik (Feb 15, 2011)

SouthernMiss said:


> Personally, it's really hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of separate accounts. Until I started reading here, I didn't realize it was so common! I've never known anybody...or anybody who admitted to...having separate accounts. It's really difficult for me to understand.
> 
> I would never, ever marry someone who didn't feel they could co-mingle ALL of their life with mine.


Same here. 

Upon further reflection based on some of the posts by posters here I hold in high regard I don't think having (or not having) separate accounts in and of itself is a cause for concern. 

Perfect illustration of why I love coming to TAM. Learn something new daily.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Got to say, I grew up assuming that joint accounts was what married people "had" to do. We had planned on it. Then we wed and just kept pushing it off. We had no problems with money, and rarely were finances an issue for us with our separate accounts. After awhile I wondered why we even needed to have a joint account. For what reason? If nothing was broken why would we fix it? All because there is some popular view that married people are "suppose" to have a joint account? We don't do anything in our marriage because that's what the elusive "they" says we must, and it made no sense to start doing that with our finances. My wife was still attached to the idea of a joint account until finally she too realized that she actually liked the way things were.

Does that mean we'll not have a JC down the line? Nope, we're both open to it if such a time arises when it feels organic, and preferable, to our life. But we won't be doing that a minute sooner, and we damn sure won't be doing it out of obligation to disapproving outsiders who feel they have the right to define what married people should do inside their relationships.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> "THE BEST WAY TO ASSURE YOU WILL BE PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED BY YOUR ADULT CHILDREN IS TO NEVER PHYSICALLY ASSAULT THEIR BACKSIDE WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG....
> 
> I am a wicked stepfather. He was 18 months old when I married his mother...I spanked him when he needed it. Twice I think...Today he is 45, and a good man and citizen...I am proud to call him son.......He would step in front of a bullet to save me.
> 
> ...



My mom has disciplined me with spanking and with a stick until I was in eight grade. Best thing she has ever done. I love her to death. She is 66 and he is 72. I take care of them like a baby now and I am always missing them.

Lot of the thing we learn in a culture that's not effective but sounds good. So we take the easy way.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

southern wife said:


> My only *confusion* with your post is that YOU are the sole bread winner, and your wife is a SAHM. That means she brings $0 into your bank account, and would have nothing to manage financially. Therefore, if it wasn't for YOUR income, she'd have nothing. In your situation, it sounds to me like you make the money, and she manages it (pays the bills, does the shopping, etc.??) Is that right?  If your 50/50 = your income to her keeping house, raising the kids, etc. then that is understandable. But you make 100% of the income to her 0%. That's not 50/50 to me..................JMO.
> 
> My hubs and I have our own (no joint) bank accounts. We also have our own credit cards - none are shared. He's self-employed and I work full time. We have one daughter. We split our mortgage in half, and all finances relating to our house and daughter....we each pay our half. The rest of our money, we spend/save how we want. Big purchases (TVs, furniture, etc for the house) we split. We each have our own cars paid for out of each our accounts (his is his, mine is mine). Our boat is split in half just like the house. We have no issues at all with this arrangement. I'd hate to think that I'd have to "ask" to go shopping for clothes or shoes and be watched like a hawk and how much money is spent on said items. I work, so I earn those luxuries for myself. We also share house duties (cleaning, laundry, etc.)


So, if one has very different spending habit than the other, lets say one save a lot and other don't save at all although they make equals amount and good amount. What would happen if they get divorced for any other reason? The whole money will be split in half right? Is not this putting that saver spouse on a bad situation.
I am not saying this is your situation, but I am familiar with a situation like this. And a couple is having whole bunch of trouble because of this? The saver wants to make joint, but the spends wont.

I want people to comment on this.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

Another thing I want you guys to comment on.. When one spouse is SAHM or SAHD or had little income and the other one is main earner, what would happen if they keep totally separate account? Wouldn't, the low earner feel very insecure and neglected that he/she does not have access to the spouses money, although it should be family's money and their money.


This is very interesting, and I know marriage is about functionality not equality. If both spouses function together with however arrangement they have, that's all you need. But I can debate on problems in either arrangements.


I like what southernmiss said though. You can live together, have baby together and you love each other to death, but you can't share finance together. Why? 

Because at the end of the day, in $ we trust. That's most important and everything else is secondary.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

People are diff. What works for one couple may not work for another. For us joint acct. was the way to go with me controlling the flow. Thats what works in this house. A couple of decades ago she decided she didn't like it that way and gave me some grief over it and I said ok no problem. i gave her the checkbooks and the bills and said I will give you my paychecks and you take care of everything the way you think best and I will never question you on it. 

After 6 months she came to me one day and said I'm sorry, I can't handle the stress of this. I don't know how you deal with it so here is the checkbooks and the bills and if you will take this job back please; I will never question you again on it. That was 20 -25 years ago now and she has kept her word. She never said another word about finances to me.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

We have a joint account. I do not work and I am free to buy anything I need or want without permission or his knowledge. I do have a few hobbies at home to keep me occupied though. My hobbies will bring in a little income here and there. My husband is very generous with me and the kids. Other people, not so much.

I don't like to spend much money and I'm pretty darn frugal as I want my husband to retire comfortably and early if possible. I will buy almost everything we need and rarely things I want. If I could, I'd get into the full time homesteading lifestyle.

I would never buy anything over a few hundred dollars without discussing or letting hubby know first. 

He works very hard to provide for us. I don't care what he buys as he has earned it. He's not a big spender either, but he does like nice quality things. He needs a new triathlon bike and they run around $5,000. I keep telling him to buy one since triathlons and ironmans are so important to him. We have never had an argument or even discussions over any financial disputes.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

pbjporvida said:


> I swish & hope that one day we can have a joint account but for now its not going to happen!
> 
> I take home a lil over $3200 a month
> mortgage $1200
> ...


Buddy,
You need to take some rapid action starting today. $800 for gas? What truck you are driving? Trade that in immediately and get corolla or civic. If your work is too far, sell or rent the home and move close to work, or find work close to home. 25% on gas is unacceptable. Carpool is an option.

Phone bill 250? You know before the year 2000, none of us had cell phones. Sell all your fancy mobile phone in ebay for some cash. if you are under contract pay the penalty 150 bucks for each phone from the cash you got by selling them in eBay. If you can't sell with good money, there is a unethical option to get out of this contract legally without paying a dime, but I won't say it here.

Get some prepaid minute for emergency call for each costing nor more than 50 bucks and get UMA for home phone 4 bucks a month. All long talks should be at home. You are not aupposed to talk too much while driving anyway. Prepaid for only emergency.

There u go, u can save 500 that way.


Are you willing to make those sacrifices. Life is what you make of it my friend.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

For those of you who keep individual accounts, how do you divide up the bills and decide who pays what? Is it 50/50, or does the person who uses whatever service more pay for it? (Tv for example, if one person watches it more that the other, should the one who actually watches it pay for it? Or strictly 50/50?) I need some advice on this - in my house I pay about 3/4 of all the bills even though my income is a little less than his, and I have student loans coming up soon and I have no idea how I'm going to do it since almost all of my income goes to pay bills now.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

mace17 said:


> For those of you who keep individual accounts, how do you divide up the bills and decide who pays what? Is it 50/50, or does the person who uses whatever service more pay for it? (Tv for example, if one person watches it more that the other, should the one who actually watches it pay for it? Or strictly 50/50?) I need some advice on this - in my house I pay about 3/4 of all the bills even though my income is a little less than his, and I have student loans coming up soon and I have no idea how I'm going to do it since almost all of my income goes to pay bills now.


See if spending habit is different from one to another. It gets really really tough to have separate account and also to have joint account. Both ways one won't like another's style. One would be called cheap and the another would be called spendy.

I think regardless who earns how much money, there should be a budget that includes basic needs like shelter, utility, food and medicals. Then some amount of agreed upon joint savings.

Now rest has to be on each by taking $X dollar as extra money. He or she will spend from that for their hobbies, clothing whatever it is.

If you don't do that and maintain separate account, you would think during grocery why I should buy this item, I don't eat that, he or she does.

Why I would get NETFLIX, I don't watch it he/she does.

See this is not good in marriage, you are becoming so mean to the person who you supposed to love and share everything.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

PeaceTrain said:


> See if spending habit is different from one to another. It gets really really tough to have separate account and also to have joint account. Both ways one won't like another's style. One would be called cheap and the another would be called spendy.
> 
> I think regardless who earns how much money, there should be a budget that includes basic needs like shelter, utility, food and medicals. Then some amount of agreed upon joint savings.
> 
> ...


I agree, and this is exactly what is happening. I have built up a lot of resentment because of paying the larger share of the bills, and I have talked to him several times asking if he could take at least one more bill, or help out with our son's expenses, but that has got me nowhere. He has said from the beginning that he does not believe in joint accounts because his ex wife didn't work but spent all his money. I don't mind the separate accounts, I just am tired of having the greater share of the bills and being broke all the time. And he expects me to pay if we need to call a plumber or any other kind of service, but I never have the money to do that.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

mace17 said:


> I agree, and this is exactly what is happening. I have built up a lot of resentment because of paying the larger share of the bills, and I have talked to him several times asking if he could take at least one more bill, or help out with our son's expenses, but that has got me nowhere. He has said from the beginning that he does not believe in joint accounts because his ex wife didn't work but spent all his money. I don't mind the separate accounts, I just am tired of having the greater share of the bills and being broke all the time. And he expects me to pay if we need to call a plumber or any other kind of service, but I never have the money to do that.


I feel for you. He should not do this at all. He needs to realize you are not his ex wife. He should asses you independently.

You should stand up and stop paying more than half for few months. It will create confrontation, but you have to do this.

I am in your shoe and I am the husband. I actually can't make my mind around being not having all your wealth together when you are married. When you split you gonna share, but you can't share when you are married. What kind messed up concept is this??

I understand some people will say I don't want my spouse to spend all my money. That's why you do budget. Nobody saying joint account would work without budgeting. Then take out the extra amount of dollar for each and go nuts with that money.

I could not make my wife to agree on this. Although we earn similar amount, she spend as she feels like. I have no access to any of her accounts. She want to spend as she desires and contribute as she desires. All the important stuff like home, utility, health insurances are on me. She believes in "since I am the male, I should provide and not count on her money at all".

I have tried to resolve this many times, but she creates huge fight over this and she would rather split than share her accounts and commit to budget to define some guidelines who pays for what.

It is creating huge trouble. I want to go for vacation, I want to do this and that with her. But I know it is me who going to end up spending. So I am holding back and loosing life gradually. 

How do you resolve this? I am tired of being angry at because I want some sound money management. I realize being jerk has lot of advantages in this world. If you are being responsible and accountable everybody would screw you up including your own spouse.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

Thank you, Peace Train - I have thought about just paying half of things and letting the chips fall where they may, but the only problem with that is if he doesn't pay then, it goes against my credit record too and I have worked very hard to try to get mine up to a good level. Your situation does sound similar, I think we need to both sit down with our spouses and just tell them how it is and what we need, and see what happens.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

mace17 said:


> Thank you, Peace Train - I have thought about just paying half of things and letting the chips fall where they may, but the only problem with that is if he doesn't pay then, it goes against my credit record too and I have worked very hard to try to get mine up to a good level. Your situation does sound similar, I think we need to both sit down with our spouses and just tell them how it is and what we need, and see what happens.


Yes, I understand the credit issue. I have thought about the same thing. If I stop paying mortgage and stuff, my credit gets impacted too. My credit is perfect and I never had bad credit. 

I think you should definitely sit down. Talk to him politely what you want and how it is both of your money. How it is going to make you happy and make this relationship lot better.

I have sat down with her, I have written a long letter explaining how it is impacting our marriage, how resentment getting built, how we are falling apart just because of this root cause. She clearly said, she won't do anything more. I could do whatever I wanted to do. We have gone not talking 2/3 months to each other just because of this issue. So either I accept this, or leave.

Anyway, best of luck to you.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm sorry you haven't been able to get through to her, have you tried marriage counseling? I have mentioned to my H that I need a little help with the bills, I've showed him on paper who pays what, and I've told him about our son's doctor bills or daycare bills that I need help with, and I get no response. I guess I either need to be more firm or try an ultimatum.


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

It sounds like your husband has a good reason, but it's fast becoming an excuse. What I would do is ask him to handle the extras around the house first. Ask if he's willing to alternate on grocery shopping - you one week/month (?) and him the next. Ask if he's willing to alternate on getting gas for the car. These are all little things but in the long run will save you probably 100-200 a month.

Is there any way you can lower any of your bills? I know my husband and I did that; we were able to shave about 30 dollars off of our phone bill and 80 off our tv/internet provider, which basically gets rid of an entire bill.

PT, have you tried any sort of financial counseling? I have found that sometimes my husband will not listen to me and I can talk until I'm blue in the face but if someone else tells him the exact thing I was trying to say he'll listen. Like, if I give him medical advice, he won't listen until a doctor says it.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

mace17 said:


> For those of you who keep individual accounts, how do you divide up the bills and decide who pays what? Is it 50/50, or does the person who uses whatever service more pay for it? (Tv for example, if one person watches it more that the other, should the one who actually watches it pay for it? Or strictly 50/50?) I need some advice on this - in my house I pay about 3/4 of all the bills even though my income is a little less than his, and I have student loans coming up soon and I have no idea how I'm going to do it since almost all of my income goes to pay bills now.


Married 25+ years and always had separate accounts. We have signature on the others' accounts in case one of us steps in front of a bus. I make roughly twice as much as my wife. All bills are paid out of my account. Her paycheck automatically sends X amount to my checking account and the rest to hers. She does with it as she pleases. We don't look at it as mine or hers, it is simply ours. If I have an off month in sales and need operating cash, it is simply given if she has extra. If not, I pull it from my savings account. Living as a commissioned sales person adds this curve to a monthly budget. There is no drama or questions. If either wants to make a purchase of a couple of hundred dollars, we confer. Our spending and saving habits are very similar so one of the big three issues in a marriage, money, has never been much of a area of conflict.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

I dont know very many couples that have been married 20+ years that bother with separate accounts - I dont.

If I think back (hard to remember) - it took us about 10 years to really, really co-mingle everything. It takes time - and it happened on its own without any effort. (I remember when we first met she was hesitent to let me drive her car! funny.) Now - we are at the point where nobody cares. Our names, both of us, go on everything. Correction: we do also have (each of us) one credit card in our own names. Shrug. 

She paid all the bills for some years, then I did..then she did. Its on my plate again and has been there for about 10 years now. 

However - I make about 10 times more than she does and I really understand how this can affect how a woman sees herself - and feels about some things. So - she also has a little account of her own at a separate bank. No secrets, nothing major, but its 'hers'. One time she bought some patio furniture for us as a surprise - and she was very pleased with herself, which was funny.. and nice to see. Somehow, I think it makes a difference for her. I do see guys getting bitter over this 'whats hers is hers and whats mine is hers!' they shout. I think this is fear talking - as is her desire to have a separate account - but I also think everyone is allowed to have their little security blankets without it being a referrendum on the relationship. I dont think there is a conflict here - we are 'joint' on everything really. At some point it becomes simple mechnics of moving resources around - so I get people that do keep things separate.

We never argue about money - and neither of us feels the need to have anything 'approved' by the other - yet at the same time any major purchases are a team effort like a new vehicle for her or me or something.

I believe money can be a relationship killer - and I have never been very comfortable with the entire his/hers, mine/yours and worst of all 'I pay the blahblahblah and he/she pays the blahblahblah'. I mean really? I know people on this board say that works fine for them, but I dont get it - seems like something we grew out of in our 30s. 'We' matters - even in home finances. Im not judging - if it works for you... fine.

Im not saying to throw away your individuality, but honestly - for us it seems like whats the point if you feel like you need to protect your own little world? Obviously, I have never been burned - I admit it - but I do feel that you are missing something if you feel like you cant just operate a home as a home - and not 2 separate entities joined at the wallet. Naive, yes? 

Little story that springs to mind.... if i may babble on... I'll keep it short...

family member of mine had some repeated financial trouble. I wound up sending quite alot of money their way over the course of a year... I mean thousands (and thousands). We are not rich, so this isnt chump change AT ALL. I asked my wife how she felt about it before doing so and she knew the situation. Her response: 'if you feel like you need to do it, go right ahead' - and I never heard a peep out of her about it again. That was about 10 years ago. I like to think that if she ever runs into a situation that is challenging financially - that she could rely on me to be instatly supportive in a similar fashion - that I would trust her enough at this point that her word is good enough for me and that we are a team. Part of being a team is helping each other accomplish their goals - whatever they may be.

Thankfully - we simply never have had to deal with crazy spending habits or vices or shopping addiction or whatever that would put our operations to the test or require us to build some fire-walls or fences. Lucky I guess.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> I dont know very many couples that have been married 20+ years that bother with separate accounts - I dont.
> 
> If I think back (hard to remember) - it took us about 10 years to really, really co-mingle everything. It takes time - and it happened on its own without any effort. (I remember when we first met she was hesitent to let me drive her car! funny.) Now - we are at the point where nobody cares. Our names, both of us, go on everything. Correction: we do also have (each of us) one credit card in our own names. Shrug.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a blissful marriage! You are very lucky to have a spouse who thinks the same way as you and you can agree on money matters with. I guess I don't mind the separate accounts, as I have my own money and would never expect him to buy me shoes or makeup or anything like that is is just for me. But it would be nice to be able to share the household bills and not have to struggle all the time while he piles up money in his savings. I'm glad he does have a savings, but I am going to have to get a second job to pay for everything, and my 7 yr old really doesn't want me too because he will miss me. I don't know what to do anymore.


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## PeaceTrain (Jun 25, 2011)

mace17 said:


> That sounds like a blissful marriage! You are very lucky to have a spouse who thinks the same way as you and you can agree on money matters with. I guess I don't mind the separate accounts, as I have my own money and would never expect him to buy me shoes or makeup or anything like that is is just for me. But it would be nice to be able to share the household bills and not have to struggle all the time while he piles up money in his savings. I'm glad he does have a savings, but I am going to have to get a second job to pay for everything, and my 7 yr old really doesn't want me too because he will miss me. I don't know what to do anymore.


I think your situation is completely unfair. If you don't mind me saying this, but he is acting very selfish here. Don't let it anymore. Just tell him to start sharing half or you will quit the job.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

PeaceTrain said:


> I think your situation is completely unfair. If you don't mind me saying this, but he is acting very selfish here. Don't let it anymore. Just tell him to start sharing half or you will quit the job.


I guess I have to be more adamant, I've tried discussing it but I get nowhere.


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## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> It looks to me like the majority of marriages that have serious money troubles are the "Your money My money" arrangements...
> 
> Having been married for 47 years and always having joint accounts, I cannot fathom a marriage where each "partner" managed their own finances....
> 
> ...


I have found that when you pool your money, inevitably, one spouse ends up doing all the earning and the other does all the spending. I'm not speaking for everyone, just myself. And I am speaking from experience. In my first marriage, I ended up working and she ended up sitting around the house even after the kids started school. My second marriage started out fine but the wife wanted to explore trying to earn money with different schemes and decided that as long as I was earning enough money to cover the bills, she had an opportunity to "strike out for herself". We now have separate finances ans she has to pay her portion of the household bills. I now have some of my own money to use for myself.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

SouthernMiss said:


> Personally, it's really hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of separate accounts. Until I started reading here, I didn't realize it was so common! I've never known anybody...or anybody who admitted to...having separate accounts. It's really difficult for me to understand.
> 
> I would never, ever marry someone who didn't feel they could co-mingle ALL of their life with mine.
> 
> ...


In my most general way of thinking, a joint account supports the Fusion Model of marriage at its outset:

A Huge Marriage Killer

We change and grow as partners, why wouldn't our financial structure change and grow as well? You might move from separate accounts to a joint account or vice versa. If your current structure is creating resentments, why not try a different model for 6 months? If you aren't having any arguments about money, stick with what works.


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