# Low Desire Marriage suggestions



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

1. Work on the relationship Sometimes something is bothering a woman. She is not happy with her life or her relationship either of which can prompt the off switch. (here women and men vary, and a physical issue is somewhat more likely with an LD man). 

An unhappy woman is less likely to want sex and you need to address the underlying problems, at least showing your concern for her as an overall person. 

2. Associate it with good things. Work on the romance. Go away for a weekend or on a cruise. They call it date night, not 10 minutes upstairs for a reason. 

3. Be realistic For men, there will be a drop in frequency in the average marriage. A 20 year old girl with lots of free time, confidence in her body, and hormones racing will usually be more active. If Jane has three kids, gets up at 6:00 to get the kids dressed and make breakfast, works 6 hours, and then taken them to various activities, at 9:00, she may be tired. Twice a week is a realistic good case scenario. 

For that reason, I don't recommend marriage for the average 21year old. As they say, sew your oats and dealing with some crazy people and a desire to raise a family, a man gets married in his late 20's or early 30's. You've gone on to more important things, and pleasure may be raising a good child or a family function. 

4. Put in in context. Let's say you have done all that, and still little or nothing. Resist the temptation to approach the issue head-on. You'll get, I am sorry, it's my problem, I just haven't felt in the mood, it wouldn't help either of us to pretend, and I appreciate your patience. Now here's 2,000 worth of bills to pay and when you get finished I need you to clean the garage and pickup the girls from dance. 

No you don't approach the issue headon. You find something important to her (as this is to you). Perhaps you don't go to a function for her mother creating a problem, or cancel a trip. 
There will be anger and fighting and that is good. You want her to understand that she can't get the benefits of a marriage but not have a real marriage and have instead a brother sister cohabilitation arrangement. Sex is part of a package and part of the marriage. It's similar to a man having an affair, he can't say, by the way, my secretary and I do it twice a week but everything else should stay the same. Sex is a dealbreaker and one of the things that distinguishes a marriage from the other circumstances in which deal close friends or relatives of the opposite gender.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Since @Bobby5000 never got a reply and is still an active member I thought I would take a moment out of my day to reply to this thread:




Bobby5000 said:


> 1. Work on the relationship Sometimes something is bothering a woman. She is not happy with her life or her relationship either of which can prompt the off switch. (here women and men vary, and a physical issue is somewhat more likely with an LD man).
> 
> An unhappy woman is less likely to want sex and you need to address the underlying problems, at least showing your concern for her as an overall person.


Being with an unhappy woman is something that we are all familiar with, but with my system of exaggerated self confidence, I find that when my woman is unhappy that I can actually manage to work with that in the bedroom. Often to the point that she gets upset that she enjoyed it so much and pleads that it is not fair that I got her to enjoy sex, because she was not ready to stop being mad and angry at me!

:grin2: 



> 2. Associate it with good things. Work on the romance. Go away for a weekend or on a cruise. They call it date night, not 10 minutes upstairs for a reason.


That is the most god awful "boobie trap" that Mr. Nice Guy falls for every time. Just be yourself! Be confident. Work on making yourself happy and then share that with her!



> 3. Be realistic For men, there will be a drop in frequency in the average marriage. A 20 year old girl with lots of free time, confidence in her body, and hormones racing will usually be more active. If Jane has three kids, gets up at 6:00 to get the kids dressed and make breakfast, works 6 hours, and then taken them to various activities, at 9:00, she may be tired. Twice a week is a realistic good case scenario.


She will tell you ONCE A WEEK is more than enough, but yet with playful confidence you will still find she can go multiple times in ONE day. The key is to be realistic with how much sex you actually need to stay satisfied? Some like to limit it a little to help build anticipation, while the other partner may tend to overindulge. More important than the number of times you have sex a week, is doing whatever it takes to make the relationship feel more playful and sexy. 



> For that reason, I don't recommend marriage for the average 21year old. As they say, sew your oats and dealing with some crazy people and a desire to raise a family, a man gets married in his late 20's or early 30's. You've gone on to more important things, and pleasure may be raising a good child or a family function.


I got married at 21 and looking back, you have to be YOUNG to have the energy needed to raise kids! I get winded carrying things up to the attic for storage, meanwhile my son bounces around the house all day like the couches are trampolines while he dive-bombs the cats chasing them around. Raising kids requires a tremendous amount of energy, and I always cringe when a couple gets married in their 30s and decides to start having kids around their 40s. At that point about all you can do as a parent is sit in your lazyboy as a spectator and hope no one gets killed while your 7-year old finds out that the jumprope will work as a slingshot to propel baby brother across the wood floors! Life is messy, life is fun, life goes buy at a constant 90mph when you have kids!



> 4. Put in in context. Let's say you have done all that, and still little or nothing. Resist the temptation to approach the issue head-on. You'll get, I am sorry, it's my problem, I just haven't felt in the mood, it wouldn't help either of us to pretend, and I appreciate your patience. Now here's 2,000 worth of bills to pay and when you get finished I need you to clean the garage and pickup the girls from dance.


AGREED, never argue about sex. Intimacy is about being close and soothing one another. If you feel the need to have a passive aggressive temper tantrum caused by sexual tension, refocus that energy into getting some exercise! Preferably outdoors playing sports with your kids.



> No you don't approach the issue headon. * You find something important to her (as this is to you). Perhaps you don't go to a function for her mother creating a problem, or cancel a trip.
> There will be anger and fighting and that is good. * You want her to understand that she can't get the benefits of a marriage but not have a real marriage and have instead a brother sister cohabilitation arrangement. Sex is part of a package and part of the marriage. It's similar to a man having an affair, he can't say, by the way, my secretary and I do it twice a week but everything else should stay the same. Sex is a dealbreaker and one of the things that distinguishes a marriage from the other circumstances in which deal close friends or relatives of the opposite gender.


*WTF dude, that is a passive aggressive tantrum if I have ever seen one!*

I agree sometimes couples need to argue, but passive aggressive sabotage is not the way to go!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Definitely, be direct. 

"I'm not in the mood to do that with you, you know what not in the mood feels like right?" LOL


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I think the key thing is in LD/HD situations is to separate out:

- true LD/HD situations, which is an incompatibility that can be dealt with various ways. But it starts with realizing that it's not likely ever to match. 

- temporary LD or HD deals - hormones, health issues, depression, exhaustion... All potentially resolvable. 

- where it's not really LD at all, it's just a lack of attraction to their spouse. Also resolvable potentially. 

All three are different deals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

As usual, I agree with Bad Santa. Be fun. Be playful. Be confident. Don't punish your spouse into unwanted sex. Entice them into wanted sex.

And when you can't do that any longer, do not hesitate to file for divorce. "Out of the blue". And do not waiver in your determination to get divorced as quickly as possible.

If your spouse wants you that badly, let them woo you back after you are divorced. Think how much fun it will be to say "you almost have me convinced that it would be worth getting back together with you permanently". If they aren't willing to fight for you, then you might as well break it off sooner rather than later.

Marriage is a lifelong commitment to fight for (not with) your spouse. If they aren't willing to fight for you forever, why the heck are you marrying them?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Since @Bobby5000 never got a reply and is still an active member I thought I would take a moment out of my day to reply to this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Totally this! 

I do not miss those days of raising little ones or spending 5 hours a days as chauffeur to and from 6 different activities, carpooling. 

Playfulness IS sexy! Playfulness works! The last thing a mother raising kids needs is yet another set of needs to look after. Think of sex as play time for Mom and Dad. Think of building up to sex as enticing her, bringing out her inner carefree person while shoving away her Mom role.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think LD/HD problems need to be separated by cause as @marduk has said. 

There are various forms of "situational" LD where the LD is capabil of being interested in sex. In those the HD may be able to change the situation in some way so that LD's interest increases.

In other case someone is inherently LD. There is NOTHING that will make them interested in sex. Maybe they can be pressured into sex through threats, but they will never want it frequently. In those cases its best that the HD give up on the situation ever improving. Leave or not, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that there is something they can do, or not do that will make things better.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And to think I suggested the triage process three years ago 

There's really three or four categories - I added mine to the list above:

- responsive desire / situational
- inherent / due to upbringing, culture, skeletons in closet, religion
- no desire with current partner only
- true sexual aversion / asexual


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think LD/HD problems need to be separated by cause as @marduk has said.
> 
> There are various forms of "situational" LD where the LD is capabil of being interested in sex. In those the HD may be able to change the situation in some way so that LD's interest increases.
> ...


I remember my buddy coming over with his family one night for a BBQ. After beer 4 or 5 he confided in me that his wife was asexual by her own admission, and how hard it was on him. He was facing a sexless life, basically forever. Sure, she loved him, but there wasn't going to be any more sex. And he was going to stay because he loved her and wanted his family together. He said she was very tearful and sorry but she just never wanted to have sex with him or anyone again, ever. She even showed him websites about asexuals.

A week or two later, she showed up at my doorstep when she knew my wife was out because her kids wanted a play date with mine unplanned. Wearing very tight jeans and a very low cut halter top. And instead of dropping her kids off, she waltzed in to the kitchen and just proceeded to hang out. 

And when all the kids went into the backyard to play, she proceeded to bend over across the island with her cleavage hanging out and proposition me.

She obviously wasn't asexual. She was just bored, or no longer wanted her husband. But she sure wanted sex.


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

C'mon markduk, continue the story-what happened next, sitting on the edge of my seat with anticipation!!  

The trick to me with LD spouses is this-when they have the time and rest, do they seem to enjoy sex. If the answer is yes, they are LD but have potential. IF no, you are in trouble. My wife is the former-when I get her away from home, kids, job, etc, she can actually enjoy and want sex. Say we go away for two nights, we might have sex 5x in a two day period. Well, that 5x is more than we have in probably 2-3 months when at home, so I know that she at least has potential. IF you go away and you still don't have sex, that would spell a lot of trouble. My problem is, I don't have the money to get away with my wife very often, and also I found myself always suggesting and planning we get away. I don't mind doing the planning-I will handle booking the trip every single time, but I would like for the wife to at least suggest we get away ONE time just to let me know she does care.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

marduk said:


> And when all the kids went into the backyard to play, she proceeded to bend over across the island with her cleavage hanging out and proposition me.
> 
> She obviously wasn't asexual. She was just bored, or no longer wanted her husband. But she sure wanted sex.


Since you failed to continue the story, I am going out on a limb to make a few assumptions. I'll vote for the idea that she actually was asexual and could care less if she actually has sex with you or not. When a person does NOT care, they have the EXTREME advantage to negotiate anything they proposition. My guess is that she did not like you bro and was toying with you to get you in trouble. Or better yet, your male friend has a fetish for this sort of thing and was orchestrating the whole thing for his enjoyment!

Badsanta

PS: You can of course finish your story, or I'll leave it at that!

:grin2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PAPS18 said:


> C'mon markduk, continue the story-what happened next, sitting on the edge of my seat with anticipation!!


Well, what happened next is that I said she should go home to her husband and then my wife walked in.

Who basically escorted her out of the house. She was mad at me, too, for being such a schmuck to let her in without being suspicious.

I went over to my buddy's place and told him what went down. He got mad at me and didn't believe me. And then we heard nothing from them for a couple of months.

Then, one day, I ran into him. He tells me he's leaving his wife, he just found out (by looking at her phone) that she was screwing one of his best and oldest friends, who was also married. It started a couple of weeks after she hit on me. Sounds like when I wasn't up for it, she moved to the next guy.

Anyway, if you've ever heard me tell the story about handling an affair like a boss, that's the guy. He had a separation agreement in front of her within days, which she signed while in the affair fog. By the end of the week he was in Hawaii with some girl he met at the bar (basically he was chatting her up and said "want a free trip to Hawaii?"). He told his friend's wife about the affair while away. By the time he came back from his trip, his friend had gone back to his wife.

And when he came back from his trip to Hawaii with that girl, his wife was tearful and sorry and didn't know what happened and wanted to work on the marriage.

And he laughed at her and told her to contact his lawyer, and realtors were showing the house that week.

She came over all tearful complaining that "he won't fight for the marriage!" I'll never forget her standing on my driveway crying and saying that to my wife and I.

And my wife said "I guess you should have thought of that before you ****ed his friend." And then told her to leave.

A year or two later I ran into him at a pub with some friends of mine. He started his own business, had a sweet farm outside of town where his kids rode horses when he had them, and he had a very beautiful and loving girlfriend. Life for him was good. He looked young and happy and optimistic.

When we ran into her around the same time, she was living in a small condo, very depressed, and looked like she'd aged 10 years. She apologized for everything, and said that she regrets it all and wished she had it back.

As far as I know, the other man and his wife are still together. Although apparently she owns his balls.

That's the story. Not exactly "Dear Penthouse Forum" material, but it's what happened.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

marduk said:


> I remember my buddy coming over with his family one night for a BBQ. After beer 4 or 5 he confided in me that his wife was asexual by her own admission, and how hard it was on him. He was facing a sexless life, basically forever. Sure, she loved him, but there wasn't going to be any more sex. And he was going to stay because he loved her and wanted his family together. He said she was very tearful and sorry but she just never wanted to have sex with him or anyone again, ever. She even showed him websites about asexuals.
> 
> A week or two later, she showed up at my doorstep when she knew my wife was out because her kids wanted a play date with mine unplanned. Wearing very tight jeans and a very low cut halter top. And instead of dropping her kids off, she waltzed in to the kitchen and just proceeded to hang out.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is one of the hardest things to swallow (no pun intended) for many BHs: their wives have plenty of interest in sex, but not with them.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tech-novelist said:


> Yes, this is one of the hardest things to swallow (no pun intended) for many BHs: their wives have plenty of interest in sex, but not with them.


I'm sure the same is true for some betrayed wives, or wives wondering why their husband is LD.

I know it sucks but if your sex life isn't what you want it to be the first question should be "how can I make it better" and not "what's wrong with my spouse?" In a real introspective and objective way.

Hell, for me, a big part of it was I got fat. That's on me. And fixable.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
so she was situational LD and her husband didn't know it. 

The question is if there are any natural LDs, people who don't want much sex no matter what the circumstances. There have been posters here who claim to feel that way, but of course they could be lying. There are people who think their partners are natural, but they could be mistaken. How to tell?

What would you suggest a HD in a HD/LD relationship do to determine if their partner is naturally LD? Does it even matter?





marduk said:


> I remember my buddy coming over with his family one night for a BBQ. After beer 4 or 5 he confided in me that his wife was asexual by her own admission, and how hard it was on him. He was facing a sexless life, basically forever. Sure, she loved him, but there wasn't going to be any more sex. And he was going to stay because he loved her and wanted his family together. He said she was very tearful and sorry but she just never wanted to have sex with him or anyone again, ever. She even showed him websites about asexuals.
> 
> A week or two later, she showed up at my doorstep when she knew my wife was out because her kids wanted a play date with mine unplanned. Wearing very tight jeans and a very low cut halter top. And instead of dropping her kids off, she waltzed in to the kitchen and just proceeded to hang out.
> 
> ...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Decision Analysis to the rescue... 

If the decision to not participate in marriage intimacy has practical and practical implications that are negative, then the person making the conscious decision to blow up the marriage - to their detriment - is truly averse.

That's what I coined earlier as "lack of self preservation neurons".


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

john117 said:


> Decision Analysis to the rescue...
> 
> If the decision to not participate in marriage intimacy has practical and practical implications that are negative, then the person making the conscious decision to blow up the marriage - to their detriment - is truly averse.
> 
> That's what I coined earlier as "lack of self preservation neurons".


If someone chooses not to participate in marital intimacy because for whatever reason their partner makes their skin crawl. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to make that choice despite the consequences if any, since for some reason there are many people who evidently lack the intestinal fortitude to not accept such behaviour.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Personal said:


> If someone chooses not to participate in marital intimacy because for whatever reason their partner makes their skin crawl. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to make that choice despite the consequences if any, since for some reason there are many people who evidently lack the intestinal fortitude to not accept such behaviour.


While true, the problem is getting the averse one to admit these feelings so that the other spouse can make an informed decision.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> While true, the problem is getting the averse one to admit these feelings so that the other spouse can make an informed decision.


Exempting wilful ignorance, that giant flashing neon sign of an interminable withdrawal of marital intimacy ought to be telling enough for such a decision.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Personal said:


> Exempting wilful ignorance, that giant flashing neon sign of an interminable withdrawal of marital intimacy ought to be telling enough for such a decision.


Without understanding the reason, it's a bit premature to take such action or take it in an obvious way. Also unraveling decades of assets and kids is not quite as easy as calling an Uber...

Humans are rational beings.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

john117 said:


> Without understanding the reason, it's a bit premature to take such action or take it in an obvious way. Also unraveling decades of assets and kids is not quite as easy as calling an Uber...
> 
> Humans are rational beings.


Except for the times when they aren't.

Would knowing why your wife won't have sex with you, change the fact she won't have sex with you?

Would knowing why your wife won't have sex with you, have prevented your years of inertia?

Absent not having the capability (insert reason here, of which the withholding party ought to volunteer if capable) to participate in marital intimacy, withholding marital intimacy is a choice.

If a spouse who is capable of marital intimacy chooses to withdraw that intimacy for an interminable period, it's pretty obvious that they really don't want to have sex with their partner.

Etc.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Personal said:


> Except for the times when they aren't.
> 
> Would knowing why your wife won't have sex with you, change the fact she won't have sex with you?
> 
> ...


Wearing my semi professional psychologist hat I would say it's not this simple. Knowing "why" does not necessarily tell you "how" immediately. 

We have seen many examples in TAM where the withholding spouse chooses divorce or wholesale misery over a fulfilling marital life with intimacy included. Those generally are in the sexual aversion category. It's unlikely that Mrs. John117, Mrs. Copper Top, Mrs. Anon1111 etc would have their hots for others, for many reasons. This is where rationality and self preservation go out the window. So knowing why is key because it also tells you that it's not fixable. 

Likewise, many oft-mentioned examples of "fixing it" depend heavily on root cause analysis of "why" to determine the appropriate action, rather than blindly follow the popular psych DIY book suggestions.

Also knowing why may grant a hall pass - there is exactly one person I would gladly spend 50 years with even without sex. Because I know the reason why...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> Wearing my semi professional psychologist hat I would say it's not this simple. Knowing "why" does not necessarily tell you "how" immediately.
> 
> We have seen many examples in TAM where the withholding spouse chooses divorce or wholesale misery over a fulfilling marital life with intimacy included. Those generally are in the sexual aversion category. It's unlikely that Mrs. John117, Mrs. Copper Top, Mrs. Anon1111 etc would have their hots for others, for many reasons. This is where rationality and self preservation go out the window. So knowing why is key because it also tells you that it's not fixable.
> 
> ...


Agree totally - you can put Mrs. CC in that category as well. I know for a fact that she has the hots for nobody - she's literally asexual and doesn't mind. I'm sure the same thing can be said for J117's wife and the others - sex once a year to say that we did it or she gets drunk and thus horny (which was our last sexual encounter).


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

What I wish my H would have known was that even if I had an O, doesn't mean it was GOOD sex. I think some LD women would want sex more often if it was better overall. Not just an O, she can do that on her own with less effort and mess, but really enjoying the entire experience. Women aren't enjoying "starfish" sex either. Even if you do give her an O. The more times she has sex not enjoying it, the less she's going to want it the next time. 

I wanted foreplay that starts in the day time, little bits to get you excited. Small things to make you feel loved. Just being with me in a way that leads naturally to sex. Not laying down in bed and then having him start rubbing my side signalling he was initiating. 
If I've gone to the bed and was not already turned on and wanting it, it really made things not very enjoyable. 

Seriously, do not touch the vagina until I can't take it anymore and NEED him to. Nothing set me back to 0 as fast as thinking it was vagina time too early. I have the whole rest of my body to have fun with- and not just the boobs- I don't want to feel like he's in some kind of rush to get to the end. 

And let me O last some of the time. Like half the time. Who doesn't want to be able to just get to lay back and relax and have and enjoy an O knowing you can just be done after and not have more "work" to do? Cutting short my afterglow time because now it's your turn is just annoying. 

And no asking for one sided anything if you don't do the same for her. On average men are having more Os than their wives already so asking for extra stand alone BJs, HJs or whatever on top of it can be a huge turn off. If the orgasm gap becomes big enough, eventually anyone will start to have a problem with it. The minute she starts to feel like her pleasure isn't as important as yours you have an uphill battle. Even giving to her can feel like "he's only doing this to get me to do _____" Even though a lot of men would give standalone, she likely wouldn't ask because it feels selfish and it's not really ingrained in us to be aggressive and selfish about our own sexual needs. 

Oh, and also (sorry) be careful about the "porn" requests. Let's face it, the woman who doesn't even want you to see her naked isn't going to say yes to anal. Even asking is going to just be met with a "wtf?!" and feel like you just want to live out some porn fantasy, which then leads to feeling like "all you want is sex" and don't care about her as a person. Something you are wanting to do to her and not with her. 
Porn in itself isn't designed to feel good for women so if you want to try something new together, don't get your ideas from it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Agree totally - you can put Mrs. CC in that category as well. I know for a fact that she has the hots for nobody - she's literally asexual and doesn't mind. I'm sure the same thing can be said for J117's wife and the others - sex once a year to say that we did it or she gets drunk and thus horny (which was our last sexual encounter).


Not quite in the once a year range yet but you can tell it's gone. I have focused on my athletics and I'm now a world ranked Angry Birds 2 player . 

And knowing why makes it no less difficult to comprehend. She's changing jobs to a more normal 9-5 schedule so one more excuse will be eliminated but at the end of the day gone is gone. 

Both ways.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

john117 said:


> Without understanding the reason, it's a bit premature to take such action or take it in an obvious way. Also unraveling decades of assets and kids is not quite as easy as calling an Uber...
> 
> Humans are rational beings.


Understanding would be nice, but not always possible. At some point, persistent negative behavior would suffice for me. I never really got a real reason from my ex, nor any real understanding, but eventually that no longer mattered. My well-being was a good-enough reason to leave.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

marduk said:


> I'm sure the same is true for some betrayed wives, or wives wondering why their husband is LD.


Does that happen? I wouldn't think that is a common occurrence with a cheating guy. I presume cheating men are on the HD spectrum, and when the wife is willing they're going to be giving it to two women and have even more fun.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

My wife has told me what SlowlyGoingCrazy has said many times when she wasn't in the mood... The problem was that it didn't work either. When she was in the mood, that wasn't what she was looking for. She liked it more "carnal" so to speak. 

Since then I've figured out that what she really wants is to be taken with determination. She loves it, and doesn't turn that down. Through trial and error I've learned that works WAY better than doing what she told me would work when asked why things weren't working.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

larry.gray said:


> . Through trial and error I've learned that works WAY better than doing what she told me would work when asked why things weren't working.


That seems to be a recurrent theme with many women; what they actually want is often something different then what they tell you they want.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> so she was situational LD and her husband didn't know it.


"Situational asexual" is more like it. Without this thread completely turning into another asexuality thread, this is entirely possible.

Asexuality is the lack of desire for sex. One simply doesn't think about it, or need it, and can technically live their lives without it, depending on the situation. They don't look at people, or themselves, as sexual beings. They don't get turned on by physical features or good looks, nor do they fantasize about people in a sexual way.

However most asexuals recognize that sex and sexuality is a key part of attracting a mate, and can turn it on when it strikes their fancy - should that be important to them. They can also enjoy sex very much - it's just that the desire and thought process isn't there.

It's entirely possible that the wife who told her husband she's asexual and never wants to have sex again was telling the truth - from a certain point of view. It's possible that other needs were not being met in that marriage, which caused her to seek those needs elsewhere, and attempt to get them by using sex.

But being asexual does not mean one does not desire intimacy (among other things). What it does mean, at it's most base, is that one does not physically desire sex.

As most of us here know, affairs are rarely about the sex. Hell, things like casual sex and ONS's are rarely about the sex, IMO. Sure, all of us just want to get laid once in a while, but really, it's more than that - people want a connection and intimacy. Even if it's just for one night.

Asexuals aren't much different. They also require intimacy and somebody to just be with. Unless they have an outright aversion to sex (which some do, but is generally considered fairly rare in asexuals, believe it or not) sex is a sure-fire way to achieve this, especially when one is married or attached.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It's simple guys. 

There is something called attraction. I can't define it. 

There are those women I just can't seem to get my mind out of the gutter for long when I'm around them. Some of them, I wouldn't consider living with and wonder why I feel that way. 

Then, there are those I'd like to have sex with, if they show me they want me. 

Then there are those I'd maybe have sex with, if I was really horny and didn't care. I don't really want to know them much. 

Then there are those who I wouldn't want to have sex with. 

Then there are those I would find very distasteful to have sex with and it would have to be rape or near rape for me to have sex with them, and I would not enjoy it. 

All of these women may be intelligent wonderful women. Doesn't matter for some reason who they are or what they have accomplished. Don't know why. Must be some chemical attraction I don't understand. Maybe it's partly psychological? 

Which one do you think your wife is? While women are reactionary to some extent, they are also attracted to certain men and others not. 

The biggest problem is you don't want to lose your toys in a divorce. If you don't get a divorce and find someone else, you must be satisfied and all you really want is sympathy. 

It's either that or you have chosen a woman who you subconsciously knew was not into you, but she was what you were programmed to want from childhood. She will be wealthy and have a fine social standing. That isn't very sexy. Think about it. Some of your wives are happy. You aren't, but you complain about them. Doesn't it make more sense that you have the issues and not them? 

I don't mean you are wrong for being horny and wanting more sex from a spouse. There was a time after my children were born that my first wife didn't want sex as often as I did. Yeah, I did lots to discourage her. She didn't want it either. She was lower drive with me. Yeah, with me. 

I think you are expecting blood to squeeze out of a rock.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> My wife has told me what SlowlyGoingCrazy has said many times when she wasn't in the mood... The problem was that it didn't work either. When she was in the mood, that wasn't what she was looking for. She liked it more "carnal" so to speak.
> 
> Since then I've figured out that what she really wants is to be taken with determination. She loves it, and doesn't turn that down. Through trial and error I've learned that works WAY better than doing what she told me would work when asked why things weren't working.


The problem I have found, and it has nothing to do with women not saying what they want, is that by the time they have had to TELL a man that hey, my O and pleasure is just as important as yours buddy. Rolling over in bed and asking for sex when you didn't start turning me on during the day, asking for quickies and bjs and thinking foreplay is boobs,boobs, butt, vagina.... is a turn off on it's own. 
Really at that point there is a lot of resentment and damage to repair. It's like coming home from work and seeing a sink full of dishes or a full garbage bin and him thinking that "she didn't tell me I had to do them"

Ya, at this point I have given up and when he comes at me all carnal I don't reject. I do it, have my O and go on with my day. It doesn't fix or change a thing. I'm not happy with my sex life and don't even want to bother to try to fix it anymore.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Damn right. If he doesn't know, screw him. No... don't screw him. That'll fix it.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The problem I have found, and it has nothing to do with women not saying what they want, is that by the time they have had to TELL a man that hey, my O and pleasure is just as important as yours buddy. Rolling over in bed and asking for sex when you didn't start turning me on during the day, asking for quickies and bjs and thinking foreplay is boobs,boobs, butt, vagina.... is a turn off on it's own.


Your situation isn't mine. Sorry you're there. But that was never where my wife and I were. My wife never had fewer orgasms than I did. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ya, at this point I have given up and when he comes at me all carnal I don't reject. I do it, have my O and go on with my day. It doesn't fix or change a thing. I'm not happy with my sex life and don't even want to bother to try to fix it anymore.


Pity. Why not fix it or move on? That's a horrible way to go through life.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> Your situation isn't mine. Sorry you're there. But that was never where my wife and I were. My wife never had fewer orgasms than I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Pity. Why not fix it or move on? That's a horrible way to go through life.


Might not be the same but if she " has told me what SlowlyGoingCrazy has said many times" then there is a reason for it. Your wife may be an exception by for the most part when a spouse is telling you that something is missing from their sexual satisfaction, it should be listened to. 

With me it was already too late. Even when he did do everything I asked, it didn't matter anymore. Damage was already done and I think that's an issue a lot of women face. 

For some LDs, and I'm not saying your situation, but they went through a couple years of feeling as though the sex was male oriented. Every encounter where her husband just rolled over and rubbed her side to initiate sex. Every time he spent the day not touching and being intimate with her until he wanted to get laid, too many "go ahead and finish husband, I don't need one tonight", every time he reached for her vagina before she was ready for him to, too many times he thought that just because she had an O that she must have enjoyed it but she was left feeling like it really wasn't worth the effort it took (*I really can't stress this enough. O does not mean good sex. Look at all the men around here who O every time but aren't fulfilled)
It all just chips away until she doesn't want to even bother with it anymore. What's the point? Even if he fixes things there's some level of resentment and "I shouldn't have had to tell him this" going on. 

I think the more we teach our girls to be aggressive and a little selfish with their sexual needs and not accept anything less from day 1 forward, the less this type of thing will happen. 

As for myself, I reached acceptance. We date, have fun, cuddle, have sex where I O, raise the kids, cook and clean, we've almost paid off the house and have future plans in the works, he loves me and I am attracted to him. When my youngest is 18 I will be in my early 40s. If I care enough about it still I can do something about it then. I have time.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

There are LD women who are LD women, and there are HD women who've lost it. They're very different things.

My wife is HD. Having kids, damage from a large #2 kid, the exhaustion from being a mommy to young kids, throw in a SSRI + hormonal BC and it went away. She missed her drive as much as I did. It frustrated her greatly that she was no longer HD, because she missed the fun too. She told me the same thing you did in the post above, and I followed, giving her exactly what she asked. It only left both of us frustrated - me horny because we had foreplay that went nowhere and her frustrated that it just wasn't working. 

Any accusation of me "not pulling my weight" would be BS. At any point in my marriage. If anything it backfires a little bit because pretty much anyone around us has made a comment to my wife at one point or another telling her how lucky she is. She's self conscious because the comments don't go the other way.

What's worked? The kids are older, damage is healed, the SSRI and hormonal BC are gone. Throw in middle age and my wife has a drive matching mine.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think the more we teach our girls to be aggressive and a little selfish with their sexual needs and not accept anything less from day 1 forward, the less this type of thing will happen.


:iagree:

A freak'n-men.

My MIL is deeply repressed sexually. It is rather ironic. She has two brothers and no sisters. Being married two and a half decades has taught me that their family is also an insane drive bunch of people. Her brothers are openly horndogs (in a good way - her family is rather free of infidelity). In contrast MIL is not. Anything sexual fills her with anxiety. I'm not sure where it comes from, as they are rather non-religious. 

My wife insisted she continue to have a cheap apartment even after moving in with me for appearances with her mother. Everyone else knew it was a farce, but it gave MIL-to-be something to tell herself that nothing was happening. Neither of my in-laws are dumb, they are highly educated. Every time MIL makes a comment of what I will call willful ignorance, FIL and BIL would roll their eyes. When BIL moved his GF in, MIL was very troubled. Cue the same reaction when BIL broke up with that GF, and a few years later moves another one it (they're married now). Round and round we go with this as our oldest daughter isn't hiding that she's sexually active with her BF (she's 20 y/o).

My wife is also rather uncomfortable with sexual subjects. It is a consequence of having sexual topics tainted with shame from a young age. She wants to not be so uncomfortable, but must fight that urge. As an example, we've told both older girls that we will get them birth control if they ask. We suggest they still use condoms, but back it up with hormonal BC. When the oldest took us up on it, it was a good 6 months before my wife was able to discuss it, so I handled it in the meantime (dealing with the insurance, etc). Now she's managed to handle it OK.

From the start my wife agreed that she didn't want any of the girls raised the same way. I think it's worked fairly well. I know the biggest was impressing them with the idea that until you can have a lengthy conversation with someone about sex, you aren't ready to have sex. We've told them that you should understand someone's view on what constitutes fidelity / infidelity, your views on discussing history should match, birth control and ensuring safety from STI should all be talked about first. The oldest says she now appreciates the advice and is glad she's used it. She's still a little uncomfortable about the topic. #2 DD is just plain open about the topic. No discomfort at all; sometimes to the great discomfort of her mother.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

larry.gray said:


> Does that happen? I wouldn't think that is a common occurrence with a cheating guy. I presume cheating men are on the HD spectrum, and when the wife is willing they're going to be giving it to two women and have even more fun.


I've seen plenty of posts from women here who were betrayed and one of their first clues was when the husband stopped trying to have sex with them.

Have you ever had a sexual with two women concurrently? I have. Both of them knew we weren't exclusive, so it wasn't cheating, but once you get past the whole "I get to have sex with two women" thing, you really do gravitate to the one you find more exciting.

Which is often, I hate to say, the new one.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
There is such huge variation in this problem and people tend to sese their own situation as the most common -whether or not it is. There seems to be a whole range of situations from people with selfish lovers, to people who are naturally asexual. 

As an example, (and no idea how common this is), in my situation my wife enjoys and gets lots of casual intimacy and romance. There are hugs, kisses, love notes, flowers. We sit on the sofa and cuddle in front of the TV. She sees sex as different from other intimacy: Sometimes she wants it, but frequently it is rushed - she wants a quick O, then that is it. Its scheduled - certain time certain day. She is completely unable to to tell me what she wants in bed - other than occasionally saying "just something quick and quiet today".

Lately she has been making a huge effort - and it helps and is appreciated, but its clear that she just isn't a naturally passionate person.

If you read here, you will find many people in much worse situations that I'm in - and mine has improved dramatically since years ago. There are many (men AND women) whose partners are just not interested. There are quite a few women here who's husbands rarely want sex, despite those women being willing to do almost anything imaginable in bed. 
@SlowlyGoingCrazy - I know the above is not YOUR situation - and yours may be the more common one - I don't know how to tell. 










SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The problem I have found, and it has nothing to do with women not saying what they want, is that by the time they have had to TELL a man that hey, my O and pleasure is just as important as yours buddy. Rolling over in bed and asking for sex when you didn't start turning me on during the day, asking for quickies and bjs and thinking foreplay is boobs,boobs, butt, vagina.... is a turn off on it's own.
> Really at that point there is a lot of resentment and damage to repair. It's like coming home from work and seeing a sink full of dishes or a full garbage bin and him thinking that "she didn't tell me I had to do them"
> 
> Ya, at this point I have given up and when he comes at me all carnal I don't reject. I do it, have my O and go on with my day. It doesn't fix or change a thing. I'm not happy with my sex life and don't even want to bother to try to fix it anymore.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

It amazes me that people keep suggesting that if your are not getting enough sex stop doing things you know your wife enjoys as if that will result in more sex.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

larry.gray said:


> My wife insisted she continue to have a cheap apartment even after moving in with me for appearances with her mother.


When I was engaged to my wife her parents as a engagement gift paid for us to travel to the city where she was born (airfare and hotel included). At the time my (soon to be) wife and I had already been sexually active with each other for two years and lived together in our apartment overseas from her parents. Nonetheless, her parents paid for separate hotel rooms for us during this trip that they gave us as a gift. One room went completely unused. 

Somewhere out there, someone looking to supplement their family income as a real estate agent is smiling and coming up with a new business model! Much like rich people hide their wealth in shell companies, young people can hide their relationship status with a shell residence (permanent address, but accommodations work somewhat like a timeshare so appearances can be maintained when needed). I imagine someone has probably even come up with that idea already.

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> No you don't approach the issue headon. *You find something important to her (as this is to you). Perhaps you don't go to a function for her mother creating a problem, or cancel a trip.
> There will be anger and fighting and that is good.* You want her to understand that she can't get the benefits of a marriage but not have a real marriage and have instead a brother sister cohabilitation arrangement. Sex is part of a package and part of the marriage. It's similar to a man having an affair, he can't say, by the way, my secretary and I do it twice a week but everything else should stay the same. Sex is a dealbreaker and one of the things that distinguishes a marriage from the other circumstances in which deal close friends or relatives of the opposite gender.


I think for the OP we need to discuss more about passive aggressive behavior. @Bobby5000 did the same in another thread (among other comments about being Mr. Nice Guy)



Bobby5000 said:


> Let me suggest an approach for the husband with a family and a wife is uninterested/ unwilling in sex.....
> 
> *8. Have a discussion about sex not in the context of sex. Next time she wants to go to her mother's you tell you are not in the mood. Having really worked hard on your marriage, feel free to be a little tougher. A fight maybe good so she can understand that to have a marriage, she needs to be a wife. Resist the tendency to be blunt or connect things too quickly. Let her figure out the connection between her unapproachability and your lack of interest in other areas. *


Personally I can so see myself doing this in the past, but now if I feel the need to be passive aggressive, I try to throw a temper tantrum in a more creative way. Instead of sabotaging relationships with my MIL by of canceling an event, I might schedule something extra nice for my MIL, buy her flowers, be super nice to her, and choose to do this when my wife has been ignoring her own mom. Then I might also do something super fun with the kids and afterwards playfully brainwash them to tell mommy that she is no where near as fun as going out to do things with dad. All the meantime I'll ignore my wife and claim I have been too busy spending time with my MIL and the kids because she ignores them! 

If you want to be successful at passive aggressive behavior you have to create a "competitive" environment that encourages the other person to try harder to be a better person. It also helps to haze a little and play this game in any possible way that gives you an unfair advantage. 

I don't play those games much anymore, but when I do that is now my strategy. :grin2:

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Well, in my mind, the two are separate issues. I mean going to MIL and sex. In most women's minds, I suggest they are connected. Going to MIL and being a decent man to her is like foreplay, though it takes much more than just one thing. 

Someone told me once, and I don't know if it's really true or not, that each time you do something it's one point. I know no one likes to keep score and that's not what I am suggesting. I'm just trying to make what I am about to say understandable. Some guys think they can buy a diamond ring or necklace and it's like 10000000 points and they are going to get laid like tile. It isn't so. Each thing is worth the same. 

And I was told, one, "Aw, schit" wipes out a boatload of "Atta boy's". 

You can see it in threads. You just have to keep trying to be a decent guy and keep your wife in mind when you do anything. Talk with her, not to her. Listen and try to empathize and let her know with words but mostly deeds, you understand what she was telling you about. This will do more good than anything, in my opinion. 

Don't keep score. Just do what you need to do. Help her out by just doing things that need done. Tell her how much you love her and how beautiful she is in your eyes. Tell her and show her she is beautiful by hugging and kissing her for no reason and when she asks, tell her that you needed to do that because she does so much for you and looks great. 

Well, those are a few thoughts I had. Sometimes, nothing works and it isn't your fault. Sometimes it has been too long and that ship has sailed and it will be very difficult for her to believe you.

ETA: If you don't feel these loving feelings, don't do them. She will know it's fake. Work on falling back in love first, when that's the case.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Don't keep score.


I don't but my lower desire wife DOES! I'll ask her to jump on top of me and she will look at me and I shît you not she will say, "you do not have enough credits for that!"

Then I do my impression of Robin Leach and begin describing how incredible her püssy is as if it would be impossible for anyone to ever afford such a lavish furry beaver capable of champagne wishes and caviar dreams!


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

You describe how wonderful her ***** is? Does it work?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Okguy said:


> You describe how wonderful her ***** is? Does it work?


Aw schit. :laugh:


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Okguy said:


> You describe how wonderful her ***** is? Does it work?





2ntnuf said:


> Aw schit. :laugh:


 @Okguy 

If you have never ever told your woman how wonderful her ***** is, I think I am going to go with @2ntnuf on this one.

Aw schit.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This post perfectly captures the spirit of what either makes or breaks an HD/LD dynamic.





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> What I wish my H would have known was that even if I had an O, doesn't mean it was GOOD sex. I think some LD women would want sex more often if it was better overall. Not just an O, she can do that on her own with less effort and mess, but really enjoying the entire experience. Women aren't enjoying "starfish" sex either. Even if you do give her an O. The more times she has sex not enjoying it, the less she's going to want it the next time.
> 
> I wanted foreplay that starts in the day time, little bits to get you excited. Small things to make you feel loved. Just being with me in a way that leads naturally to sex. Not laying down in bed and then having him start rubbing my side signalling he was initiating.
> If I've gone to the bed and was not already turned on and wanting it, it really made things not very enjoyable.
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

"And let me O last some of the time. Like half the time." 

This part is going to be tough for most men, I'd think. It's just the nature of male biology that gets in the way. It's possible, but really tough to do once a man has lost the brain chemicals that drive his desires for her. They all wane very quickly after he ejaculates. 



Bottom line is they are not compatible. There is no sense in attempting to make a dead horse gallop. They should find someone who is more compatible after divorce. Odd thing is, we don't even know his side of this ongoing story. I find it less and less believable over time.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

If I climax first I have no problem making sure my wife does. Doesn't matter if I already ejaculated.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Okguy said:


> If I climax first I have no problem making sure my wife does. Doesn't matter if I already ejaculated.


Oddly enough, I believe this. When I was young, and with a woman I was very attracted to, I could rustle up a second and sometimes third try. 

Maybe age or pure inexplicable unadulterated attraction to that woman is a factor? 

Seems like these low drive situations are based in incompatibility.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

When I was young I could do it three times in 90 minutes. Now if I come first I have to use other means to make sure my wife does too.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Okguy said:


> When I was young I could do it three times in 90 minutes. Now if I come first I have to use other means to make sure my wife does too.


I don't remember having issues with premature ejaculation.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> "And let me O last some of the time. Like half the time."
> 
> This part is going to be tough for most men, I'd think. It's just the nature of male biology that gets in the way. It's possible, but really tough to do once a man has lost the brain chemicals that drive his desires for her. They all wane very quickly after he ejaculates.
> 
> ...


There are several ways to make a woman climax after he has that don't require him to have an erect penis. 
The point wouldn't be for him to try to get another one but for her to just get to lay back, relax and have an O and just get to enjoy it after. A good O leaves me feeling like I'm high, I want to just lay there and let my body and mind come down, not being able to move or hear or speak, not keep going. It cuts it short and stops me from having a good O in the first place. 

Part is compatibility, I think he'd be good with a LD woman actually, but IMO what he does/doesn't do wouldn't satisfy any woman who wants sex for the long run. I think the things I would want or don't like are pretty standard and aside from specific individual requests, could be said of many women. 

I have read just about everything I can about men like him, there are far too many, and the unsatisfied women they are with. TAM is mostly men who really try, want and know how to be with a woman and willing to do anything to do it, but looking around you can find the hordes of women in the same boat I am in with a man who just isn't good in bed and it makes them not want to do it at all. Makes men who actually get it look like the rare ones. Seems to be getting even worse since internet porn.

The only thing it's made me realize is that there isn't any fixing it. Men who don't get what good sex is and aren't the ones on the forums and the articles and videos and trying to improve it, aren't going to get any better. 

What is his side? He knows he's selfish. He "wants to do anything he can to please me" but just doesn't get it. He likes using toys to make me O and then having sex or getting a bj. He still thinks that if I've had an O then he must have done his job and all is well. 

If he tries the long, slow approach, it's robotic and mechanical where he's literally just rubbing his hands around on my body while he lays beside me.
He still thinks rubbing my side/butt while we are in bed is an acceptable form of initiation and right now he is playing his playstation game waiting for me to be "ready" to go have sex before we go to costco. 
The most progress we've made is he does now make sure I have an O before (but with toys usually ) he'll take a bit more time before he goes for the vagina but I usually have to keep wriggling and moving his hands away, and with reminders he'll try to be more sexual and intimate with me before we get to the bedroom, but it's really an awkward mess and he doesn't get the point of the whole thing so he doesn't really do it right. 

I take a shower or bath before we do it every time now and most of the time I just masturbate in there before and sometimes again after so at least I don't feel as frustrated about the whole thing. 

Eventually one of 2 things will happen, I'll lose my drive enough to stop caring or it will get so bad that I have to leave him and break up my family to search for another. I'm hoping for the first one, at least until the kids are grown. 

What exactly is unbelievable? Do a quick search for "husband bad in bed" "husband doesn't do foreplay, or enough foreplay" "husband doesn't like to give oral", "husband is selfish in bed" or even women dealing with PE with men who don't compensate with something else. 
I've really just given up on fixing things but every now and then I'll add my 2 cents in, you never know who may read it and be able to relate to it or my husband and realize there are some things they are doing or should be doing that could make a difference. Many of the stories out there are women who'd rather reject sex than have to say "you aren't good in bed" so their husbands may not even know. 

It's ridiculously hard to even explain all this to my H who was never taught how to really please a woman and got his experience from porn and women who were throwing themselves at him, one night stands, short relationships. The porn is what I feel is the biggest problem. I think teaching your mind/body what stimulus gets you off (male focused sex) by getting pleased by porn and they just don't learn what is good for a woman.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's ridiculously hard to even explain all this to my H who was never taught how to really please a woman and got his experience from porn and women who were throwing themselves at him, one night stands, short relationships.


Who, in your opinion, has/had the responsibility for teaching him? If he was "never taught", who's fault is that? Maybe it's different where you are or at school now, but "pleasing a woman" wasn't on the syllabus of ANY subject...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Okguy said:


> It amazes me that people keep suggesting that if your are not getting enough sex stop doing things you know your wife enjoys as if that will result in more sex.


You have to first ask yourself "Do I still like my wife?" If you still like her, do things for her that she likes.

If you don't like her, stop doing things she likes, because hey--you don't like her.

And if you don't like her--why do you want to have sex with her anyway?

Here's a handy chart I've made.



. .......................*Like *.................................. *Don't Like*

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


*Be Nice*///////////// Sex ................................... Mr Nice Guy






*Be a d!ck*.///////////WaW .................................... Divorce


ETA: ridiculously difficult to format something like this on here.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Who, in your opinion, has/had the responsibility for teaching him? If he was "never taught", who's fault is that? Maybe it's different where you are or at school now, but "pleasing a woman" wasn't on the syllabus of ANY subject...


First off would be not watching porn. It's harder to change bad methods than it is to create good ones from the start. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201207/the-real-problem-porn-its-bad-sex)

There is tons of materials, videos, articles, books, even classes, they could do to learn how to be good in bed. He'd just have to have the initiative to do it and care enough to want to.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> First off would be not watching porn. It's harder to change bad methods than it is to create good ones from the start. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201207/the-real-problem-porn-its-bad-sex)
> 
> There is tons of materials, videos, articles, books, even classes, they could do to learn how to be good in bed. He'd just have to have the initiative to do it and care enough to want to.


No input from you?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> No input from you?


For specifics, yes. Particular recipes that get you off but if you're dealing with a man who doesn't know how to work the oven in the first place it is pretty much useless. Men who have and want porn sex, IMO, are too much of an uphill battle. It's usually ok at first, new lust feelings are enough to get you through and too many don't say something right away. They think it will get better, they don't want to be demanding and selfish. But by the time you have to stop and tell him it's just not working for you (and apparently a lot just don't), there's typically some resentment, an orgasm gap or sometimes just not wanting sex at all anymore. She stops sex or just lies there being bored like it's a chore, he feels duped thinking she tricked him by pretending to like sex. 

From the article
Most women really need 30 to 45 minutes of kissing, hugging, mutual whole-body massage, and playful, creative sensuality prior to genital play. Porn ignores this, encouraging men to plunge into intercourse long before women feel receptive. When surveys ask women what they dislike about the way men make love, they consistently reply that men rush into intercourse too quickly. Porn leaves many women cold—and turned-off women aren’t much fun in bed.

Really, I wonder what % of men actually do this, consistently. Likely some of the men here because they are really trying, but in general? Personally I don't think I'd need that long but who knows, maybe it would make it amazing. 
I asked for 5-15 minutes, some of which I want before the bedroom. But having to ask kind of ruins it anyway.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> What exactly is unbelievable?


That you have been here so long with the same problems and have not made much progress. It seems, excuse my language, "trollish".

Why? Because you seem to have a great awareness and always have about yourself. You have almost no skills at communicating with your husband. How do two people fall in love, get married and build a life together without at least being able to communicate. 

Maybe I'm different, but I would talk about almost anything. If it got too gross for me, I'd say so and that would be that, or I'd get away. 

I told my first wife what felt good as far as oral. She didn't know. We were young. Hell, I wanted it to be good. Now, the funny thing is, she didn't tell me what I was doing wrong with her. And, there was plenty. I'd have done whatever, within reason, she asked. If she only asked. 

Same with second wife. Why would she think it was okay to do something new, that was intrusive, like with a finger on me. Hell, it was traumatic, but wouldn't have been if she just talked about it instead of thinking that what someone else did or liked, was what I would. 

I don't get it. Rant over. Sorry. 



> I've really just given up on fixing things but every now and then I'll add my 2 cents in, you never know who may read it and be able to relate to it or my husband and realize there are some things they are doing or should be doing that could make a difference. Many of the stories out there are women who'd rather reject sex than have to say "you aren't good in bed" so their husbands may not even know.


Well, and you should add your 2 cents. It's worth much more and I've read it before and had to get away from the thread because it's so good, yet frustrating to read your inhibitions when you seem so nice. Drives me nuts when I read the fear of being yourself, or anyone, not just you. 

Why reject rather than try to get it? I don't understand that. 

So, okay, sorry again. 

Sheesh, I'm getting myself into trouble here. 




> It's ridiculously hard to even explain all this to my H who was never taught how to really please a woman and got his experience from porn and women who were throwing themselves at him, one night stands, short relationships. The porn is what I feel is the biggest problem. I think teaching your mind/body what stimulus gets you off (male focused sex) by getting pleased by porn and they just don't learn what is good for a woman.


If he doesn't know there is a problem, he won't be interested in working on it.

If he thinks it's a matter of a different position, that's what he'll try. 

If he loves you and I think he does, and knows this is really serious he will likely do what he can to be the best he can be. 

Though, it might be fun to learn together and explore. I always wanted that. Maybe I'm weird? Don't answer that.  I'd like to think of myself as just a man. 

So, I've explained and will take my "beating" if you want to "verbally" reprimand me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> From the article
> *Most women really need 30 to 45 minutes of kissing, hugging, mutual whole-body massage*, and playful, creative sensuality prior to genital play. Porn ignores this, encouraging men to plunge into intercourse long before women feel receptive. When surveys ask women what they dislike about the way men make love, they consistently reply that men rush into intercourse too quickly. Porn leaves many women cold—and turned-off women aren’t much fun in bed.


I'm so confused, I thought it was 30 to 45 minutes of this


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That doesn't even look like you, Karl. Reference to Slingblade, Billy Bob.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Women need what they need. Sometimes they need more foreplay than other times


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

I never had any issues with premature ejaculation either.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

marduk said:


> I remember my buddy coming over with his family one night for a BBQ. After beer 4 or 5 he confided in me that his wife was asexual by her own admission, and how hard it was on him. He was facing a sexless life, basically forever. Sure, she loved him, but there wasn't going to be any more sex. And he was going to stay because he loved her and wanted his family together. He said she was very tearful and sorry but she just never wanted to have sex with him or anyone again, ever. She even showed him websites about asexuals.
> 
> A week or two later, she showed up at my doorstep when she knew my wife was out because her kids wanted a play date with mine unplanned. Wearing very tight jeans and a very low cut halter top. And instead of dropping her kids off, she waltzed in to the kitchen and just proceeded to hang out.
> 
> ...


I have seen exactly this scenario and very similar play out more times than I care to recount.

I don't think anyone is asexual that doesn't have a serious health issue.

There is always a sexual trigger that isn't understood.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> For specifics, yes. Particular recipes that get you off but if you're dealing with a man who doesn't know how to work the oven in the first place it is pretty much useless. Men who have and want porn sex, IMO, are too much of an uphill battle. It's usually ok at first, new lust feelings are enough to get you through and too many don't say something right away. They think it will get better, they don't want to be demanding and selfish. But by the time you have to stop and tell him it's just not working for you (and apparently a lot just don't), there's typically some resentment, an orgasm gap or sometimes just not wanting sex at all anymore. She stops sex or just lies there being bored like it's a chore, he feels duped thinking she tricked him by pretending to like sex.
> 
> From the article
> Most women really need 30 to 45 minutes of kissing, hugging, mutual whole-body massage, and playful, creative sensuality prior to genital play. Porn ignores this, encouraging men to plunge into intercourse long before women feel receptive. When surveys ask women what they dislike about the way men make love, they consistently reply that men rush into intercourse too quickly. Porn leaves many women cold—and turned-off women aren’t much fun in bed.
> ...


SGC, gently, but you are using your husband as a poor example (rightfully so) and broadening it to men in general.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
a lot of people believe that their partners are asexual, why do you think that they are wrong? (unless you define asexual AS a serous health problem). 



ConanHub said:


> I have seen exactly this scenario and very similar play out more times than I care to recount.
> 
> I don't think anyone is asexual that doesn't have a serious health issue.
> 
> ...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> a lot of people believe that their partners are asexual, why do you think that they are wrong? (unless you define asexual AS a serous health problem).


Asexuality as a symptom.... Think mental illness.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> SGC, gently, but you are using your husband as a poor example (rightfully so) and broadening it to men in general.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I think she is a classic example of a woman who marries a man that likely never pleased her sexually the way she wanted, but had other qualities like money, status, social connections, etc., that she desired, and figured she could change him or that he would love her enough to want to change. 

Love had nothing to do with it. He just doesn't know what she is thinking. He doesn't know how to do what she wants. He thinks he already is doing what she wants and there is no problem. She likely tells him every other thing she would like to see change or doesn't say anything about anything. That would make him fully believe he is pleasing her in whatever he does in and out of the bedroom. 

If even some of that is true, and I am not saying it has to be, but it is what I believe, she has waited too long due to fear of him realizing she is much more experienced a wife than he ever thought. She may also think he wouldn't want her if he knew all of it. 

I can't imagine that what she wants as described here by her, would be shocking to her husband. It is just more loving.

If he just doesn't care, which is possible yet seemingly unlikely, there is only one course of action after some openly verbal communication, a time limit and real solid open attempts at change.

Divorce. 

Sucks, but the longer she waits, the harder it will feel and could possibly be.

Just my opinion, SGC. Not a judgment of anyone's character.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> a lot of people believe that their partners are asexual, why do you think that they are wrong? (unless you define asexual AS a serous health problem).


Eliminating mental or physical health issues, I have seen previously "asexual" people become ravenous sex hounds under different circumstances than the previous ones where they found they had no interest in sex.

I have seen it too many times over too many years to believe truly asexual people exist without health issues.

There is always some, or many, sexual triggers that haven't been explored and sometimes the "asexual" person really does believe they have zero desire for sex until they are explored and experimented with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> SGC, gently, but you are using your husband as a poor example (rightfully so) and broadening it to men in general.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I'm using my husband as an example of men who are bad in bed creating a situation where the woman doesn't want sex anymore. 
I'm not suggesting that all LD wives are partnered with men like this, but it is one reason why some become that way.

And as I said, the guys who are looking for help and answers are not likely to be the ones in this group but it does happen. A lot. More and more men are learning how to have sex from watching porn and more and more women are being unsatisfied. A woman with an already lower drive would likely just say F-it and not do it at all, some reject rather than have the "you're not good in bed" talk. 

So seeing as it is one reason women reject or dislike or avoid sex, it should be looked at, if not to at least rule it out. Just because she had an O doesn't mean the experience was satisfying it itself. If women complain most about about their husbands going to genital play too early, try waiting longer. Try letting her have her O last.

The biggest issue with women in these situations is ego. Anytime it's even suggested as an option that a man could be doing things to make sex better for her, it is defenses up. It has to be something wrong with her. It would be helpful to keep an open mind and listen to the different reasons that women have to why they became LD.

I don't see many women in this situation on TAM, maybe just the atmosphere keeps them away, but there are a million of them out there in other places. I'm sure at least some have husbands who don't know why she's "LD" and is blaming it on something else.



And FTR- I tell my husband constantly. He knows I am not satisfied. He's heard every word I have said here a dozen times. 
I've sent him letters, videos, articles. I've suggested classes, therapy. I've downloaded foreplay apps, timers. 

If communication was all it took to save sex problems there would be much less need for this forum. 
It's not a situation where a new position or technique would even help with. It's a mindset. Porn vs. sex IMO. 
I don't need him to learn how to make me O, I can fairly easily and make sure I do every time now. He figured that part out. 

I need him to learn how to make love, truly pleasure me, build me up during the day so there isn't a situation where he's asking/trying for sex before I am already turned on and excited, take his time and not touch my vagina until I am literally begging him to, tease me and let it go on as long as it can until I just can't take it anymore. Let me enjoy my O every now and then and be just done because I already took care of him first. 

Not all Os are the same, I have 2 different kind. The quick, scratch an itch kind that I can get from him or a quick masturbation session, and the ones that would require him to carry me out of the room if there was a fire after. I'm out, the room is spinning, my ears are ringing, everything is black. I couldn't speak or move if I had to. 
It's like a big hit of drug. 
It's like that meme, if she can get up to make you a sandwich after you didn't do your job right. 

Those are what I can't get with him because of how he does things in bed. 

So when checking things off the list of why a wife isn't as interested in sex as she used to be, if "she bait and switched you" is an option then at least look at how often she Os to the point where she can't move or form words for 5 minutes after. If it's not often, or worse not at all, then work on that. Get the basics down first before you move on to other reasons. And don't start asking her for standalone bjs or anal or whatever else until the (good) O rate is evened out and taken care of. 
If all is good in that regard then it doesn't apply to you. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about or that I am saying it is all men.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Alright, so questions and thoughts which I'm asking for answers, if possible or thoughts if you don't know.



> I need him to learn how to make love, truly pleasure me, build me up during the day so there isn't a situation where he's asking/trying for sex before I am already turned on and excited, take his time and not touch my vagina until I am literally begging him to, tease me and let it go on as long as it can until I just can't take it anymore. Let me enjoy my O every now and then and be just done because I already took care of him first.


Honestly, sometimes this feels like begging, and I don't like to beg for what so many here say is supposed to be a part of the vows. Her body mine and mine her's and so forth blah blah blah. 

I don't really believe that obviously. I have to give permission just as you. It's too rapy otherwise.

So, when I think that way, I can somewhat understand, but still feel like it's a bit like begging to work so hard for it. 

Also, the selfish part of me thinks, hmm, if I have to do all that, am I going to just get a bit of a bj, a few positions and cunnilingus? I know. That's terrible, but we are trying to be open with each other. You gave, so I'm giving back honesty and openness and a huge portion of vulnerability. 





> Not all Os are the same, I have 2 different kind. The quick, scratch an itch kind that I can get from him or a quick masturbation session, and the ones that would require him to carry me out of the room if there was a fire after. I'm out, the room is spinning, my ears are ringing, everything is black. I couldn't speak or move if I had to.
> It's like a big hit of drug.
> It's like that meme, if she can get up to make you a sandwich after you didn't do your job right.
> 
> Those are what I can't get with him because of how he does things in bed.


Showing my ignorance and being vulnerable again, is that normal for many women? I know you can't know, but I mean try to guess. I have no clue. 

Are you sure it isn't a heart condition to black out like that? Seems like it. 

While I do have two types myself, with one being more bonding than the other, it isn't blackout style. It's just a bigger hit of brain chemicals, similar, but no where near the same effects as your's. 



> So when checking things off the list of why a wife isn't as interested in sex as she used to be, if "she bait and switched you" is an option then at least look at how often she Os to the point where she can't move or form words for 5 minutes after. If it's not often, or worse not at all, then work on that. Get the basics down first before you move on to other reasons. And don't start asking her for standalone bjs or anal or whatever else until the (good) O rate is evened out and taken care of.
> If all is good in that regard then it doesn't apply to you. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about or that I am saying it is all men.



Could have been her way of giving to get, but that would take some communication to understand. I don't read minds. Though sometimes, I can make a pretty accurate guesstimate.

If you've talked with him about all this and not just downloaded stuff in the hopes he saw it and put two and two together to get four, well, I am sorry for you. 

I go back to you two not being compatible for some reason. Sad really, when I think about how hard you have worked and how much you've given. 

I've spoken from experience because it's all I know. That's why I've offered information that might be a bit TMI. Sorry about that. Don't know how else to do it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Alright, so questions and thoughts which I'm asking for answers, if possible or thoughts if you don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He feels it's too much work, shouldn't be needed, he Os quicker and easier so it's not "fair" etc. Similar to your feelings on it. He's tried a few things, it's just not worth it knowing he feels like it's a chore.

It doesn't offend me but it's why my situation can't be fixed. 
Many women have similar wants, extended foreplay, delayed genital play, teasing, building O and good Os that leave you a useless, shaking blob on the bed. It'd be worth the effort, IMO, if it made her enjoy sex and want it more. TBH- my small Os aren't worth the mess, time, effort and frustration. I'd give up sex entirely but somewhere in me still hopes that someday it will get better and what we do now stops him from watching porn.


Satisfied women are also more likely to be giving women. If the extra effort didn't eventually lead to more on her part though I would be careful not to let the O gap and resentment swing too far the other way.

From the gal friends I talk to about these kinds of things, things I have read, they have similar experiences with the different kinds of Os. The crazy, great ones (and no, it's not a heart condition. I don't literally black out unconscious, I'm there, just gone. It's more like a big hit of coke. Your ears ring, you can't feel your body, you're shaking, you can't speak, or see enough to focus) During it looks like a mix of a stroke, seizure and/or exorcism. It's not pretty. It's not porn. Personally I can't even make noise during. 

I think every woman should be having them regularly no matter how much effort it takes and I think that if all were, it would fix SOME "LD" situations. The ones it applies to.

For an example- I sent him a video this morning of a real couple having good sex. Extended foreplay (they don't even start sex until half way through), really passionate, female focused sex. He started watching it and joked "can't I just fast forward to the good part LOL"

That's sex with him in a nutshell and sadly I'm not alone in this boat. 
*I'm pretty sure he's playing angry birds now* 
These Are the New Orgasm Statistics Every Woman Should See - Mic
Only 57% of women usually have orgasms when they have sex with a partner
72% of women still experienced a time when their partner climaxed but made no attempt to help them finish.
.... the orgasm gap also reflects how our cultural views of men's versus women's pleasure. After all, it takes much longer on average for a woman to orgasm (up to 20 or even 40 minutes, some experts say), and yet the standard expectation is that sex ends when a man comes. 

These are big problems, IMO, it's at very least an option to be looked at. Some guys don't know what a great female O looks like, don't realize that needing up to 40 minutes is normal, don't wait long enough for genital play, don't give enough affection and touching during the day until they are ready to initiate sex, are done when they O even if she's not 100% satisfied. 
It's not just their fault. We weren't taught how to demand great sex either. Some women don't explore their bodies enough to know it's full potential, some don't know how to talk about it or dance around his ego trying not to hurt his feelings. Some just have men who aren't willing or wanting to take the extra time and attention it would require. 
Whatever the reason, IMO, it is _one _possibility for a sexual mismatched marriage. It's fine if some are offended by that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He feels it's too much work, shouldn't be needed, he Os quicker and easier so it's not "fair" etc. Similar to your feelings on it. He's tried a few things, it's just not worth it knowing he feels like it's a chore.
> 
> It doesn't offend me but it's why my situation can't be fixed.
> Many women have similar wants, extended foreplay, delayed genital play, teasing, building O and good Os that leave you a useless, shaking blob on the bed. It'd be worth the effort, IMO, if it made her enjoy sex and want it more. TBH- my small Os aren't worth the mess, time, effort and frustration. I'd give up sex entirely but somewhere in me still hopes that someday it will get better and what we do now stops him from watching porn.
> ...


Selfish. Shame on him.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Many different people, many different situations. 

My wife won't watch erotic videos. She almost never tells me what she wants in bed - just a generic "you know what I like", or similar. She won't discuss fantasies, or sexual interests. The only actors she claims to find attractive look sort of like me (well better looking, but same sort of concept) - she may well be being polite but certainly I've always encouraged her to say what she likes. 

We have tons of intimacy, just very little sex. She gets everything from kisses and love notes to long massages (which she never wants to become sexual). 

I'm not disagreeing with the women who's partners are uncaring, or unromantic lovers - I think that is quite common, and they have my sympathy. Living without passion, even if there is sex, is miserable. Its just that there are a fair number of people who really just don't want sex.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He feels it's too much work, shouldn't be needed, he Os quicker and easier so it's not "fair" etc. Similar to your feelings on it. He's tried a few things, it's just not worth it knowing he feels like it's a chore.


I'd say he isn't getting out of it what he believes he should. That's my take on it. Yeah, it's selfish. I think everyone is. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It doesn't offend me but it's why my situation can't be fixed.
> Many women have similar wants, extended foreplay, delayed genital play, teasing, building O and good Os that leave you a useless, shaking blob on the bed. It'd be worth the effort, IMO, if it made her enjoy sex and want it more. TBH- my small Os aren't worth the mess, time, effort and frustration. I'd give up sex entirely but somewhere in me still hopes that someday it will get better and what we do now stops him from watching porn.


It's sad, really. 




SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Satisfied women are also more likely to be giving women. If the extra effort didn't eventually lead to more on her part though I would be careful not to let the O gap and resentment swing too far the other way.


Yeah, I agree.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> From the gal friends I talk to about these kinds of things, things I have read, they have similar experiences with the different kinds of Os. The crazy, great ones (and no, it's not a heart condition. I don't literally black out unconscious, I'm there, just gone. It's more like a big hit of coke. Your ears ring, you can't feel your body, you're shaking, you can't speak, or see enough to focus) During it looks like a mix of a stroke, seizure and/or exorcism. It's not pretty. It's not porn. Personally I can't even make noise during.


Yeah, as far as the blackout stuff, I sort of thought it was a little exaggerated. I could have read into it, though.

Honestly, the times I believed I made it happen, there really was no noise, just clammy skin, some shivering, perceived weakness and similar to men, a need for a short nap. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think every woman should be having them regularly no matter how much effort it takes and I think that if all were, it would fix SOME "LD" situations. The ones it applies to.


Agree.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> For an example- I sent him a video this morning of a real couple having good sex. Extended foreplay (they don't even start sex until half way through), really passionate, female focused sex. He started watching it and joked "can't I just fast forward to the good part LOL"


hahaha Typical man. I hope you said, if you want to miss how she got there. Actually, I'd like to see that myself. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That's sex with him in a nutshell and sadly I'm not alone in this boat.


Sorry to read this.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *I'm pretty sure he's playing angry birds now*


Didn't understand the references.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> > These Are the New Orgasm Statistics Every Woman Should See - Mic
> > Only 57% of women usually have orgasms when they have sex with a partner
> > 72% of women still experienced a time when their partner climaxed but made no attempt to help them finish.
> > .... the orgasm gap also reflects how our cultural views of men's versus women's pleasure. After all, it takes much longer on average for a woman to orgasm (up to 20 or even 40 minutes, some experts say), and yet the standard expectation is that sex ends when a man comes.





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> These are big problems, IMO, it's at very least an option to be looked at. Some guys don't know what a great female O looks like, don't realize that needing up to 40 minutes is normal, don't wait long enough for genital play, don't give enough affection and touching during the day until they are ready to initiate sex, are done when they O even if she's not 100% satisfied.


I remember this stuff to some extent. Some of the issue was the amount of effort it took could be overwhelming after my day at work. I've always, except for the last few years, had to do physical labor that really tired me out and didn't leave much for all the foreplay. 

I was more interested in spending some time on the weekend for this type of all day long style flirting, teasing, sexy game playing and so forth. 

That's just from my point of view. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's not just their fault. We weren't taught how to demand great sex either. Some women don't explore their bodies enough to know it's full potential, some don't know how to talk about it or dance around his ego trying not to hurt his feelings. Some just have men who aren't willing or wanting to take the extra time and attention it would require.
> Whatever the reason, IMO, it is _one _possibility for a sexual mismatched marriage. It's fine if some are offended by that.


Demand is a tough word. I think it is more like not settling and making the reasons known. Though I think this is something that needs addressed well before marriage. 

Also, you do realize that the foreplay does not last up to 40 minutes, it lasts all day as you posted before. 

Okay, when I get done with cleaning out this drain, I've got to send a sexy text. Yuk. It's an extreme example, but it brings a little reality back. 

No sir, I didn't know the report was due today. I'm almost done anyway. I'll have it for you after break. I have to send my wife a loving desirous text at break. 

Again, maybe extreme and maybe the text would bring about a different outcome for work by letting work go for just a few minutes? Either way, just making a point from a different perspective. 

I agree with you, but think you two should find others after divorcing. I guess it's also hard to find physical compatibility and all the other things you need in the same person, which could be a factor, too. 

Thankyou for responding.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

@SlowlyGoingCrazy,

Hey, I just thought of something. Yeah first time. haha :laugh:


No, seriously, I didn't talk much about sex because when I brought something up, it seemed as though it was taken that I wanted to definitely try it, but that wasn't so. I just wanted to explore some fantasy or interest. I didn't know how to do it or much about it. I felt like I couldn't just talk about things and get opinions without the topic being thought of as what I had to have. No.

This made it difficult to talk about things.

What do you suggest?

Explore the idea I have first to see if I want to do it and then ask? Then, it would be a situation where she might be denying me something I want, but not sure, because I never felt like she had to do anything I wanted. I never had anything in mind that was really weird or anything. 

What is the best way to handle these things?


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

slowly, 

From what you have posted, you are NOT LD, it sounds like your husband is just a lazy lover. I suppose there are a lot of lazy guys out there-and I would imagine it might be easier for a guy to be lazy when he has a woman that is a lot more interested in sex-like you are. I mean, what struck me is you sending a video of a couple having sex to your husband. My wife would NEVER EVER EVER send me a video or watch one herself. I have come to these boards for years to find out what might make her tick, bottom line sex is not a priority for her regardless of what I do. I would LOVE to give my wife an orgasm as many times during the week as she wants one-and I am willing to take as long as it takes-why, because her happiness sexually matters to me-I figure if she is enjoying herself, she will want more and not less. BUT, even though I try my best to be a giver each and every time we make love-I like the kissing/touching, foreplay, I offer to go down on her-which 90% of the time is rejected, I want her to O and I want it to rock her world-she usually does have an O-and usually within 10-15 minutes, I suppose it is the O that you describe as scratching the itch-but I would be ok with foreplay after her first O, in other words whatever it takes. BUT despite my best efforts, we are at 2-3x a month IF THAT, for March it was 1x. She has apologized for not being the woman I want her to be, has told me sex is simply not a priority for her. I believe there are a lot of women around just like my wife-unfortunately. IF my wife was showing the interest that you show-if she was willing to communicate what she needed like you do, we would have a very happy sex life, I just know it. Like I said to start, TO ME, it just sounds like your husband is lazy more than anything. I suppose any of us guys would be capable of falling into that if we had a woman that wanted sex/orgasms often but there are just so many of us that can't relate. You do however confirm the idea that if a woman in a relationship truly wants sex/orgasm, she will indeed do research and communicate about it. Just like my wife, if my kids were sick or struggling in school, she would do the research to try to make things better-because the kids are a priority. You make the time and put in effort on things that matter to you the most.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yeah, women don't mess around when they want something. They will get it one way or another. That's what her husband doesn't realize.

I've read several of SGC's posts myself. When I first came here, my mouth would drop open and I'd get a tear in my eye when I read some of them. That's the truth, though I was much more vulnerable to those tears then, than now.

Why I keep saying they are not compatible is because he is so stubborn. I figure he either doesn't care, or he is so arrogant he just thinks she will be there forever. Either way, it's a real shame to waste that kind of love and dedication. 

You are one of very few great women, SGC. You don't follow the normal patterns of wishing he'd understand or find the articles and books you are reading and figure it out. Many men are too...something, to figure those things out. 

You take it right to him with confidence in your findings, love and respect in your heart. I read hope in your words. I hope you figure it out and find your happiness. 

It's a terrible shame to waste a love like that. And, thanks for answering my questions. My thoughts are with you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Far, 

I guess there's the 'what' and the 'why'. The 'what' is your partner just isn't that 'into you'. That's obvious from how they are acting. And a lot of marriages get deeply screwed up because the partners engage in a pact of mutual deception. 

No way someone is going to do the routine daily 'I love you' and hear it back - when it's obviously untrue. 

Biggest enemy of true synchronization is patterned dishonesty. 





farsidejunky said:


> While true, the problem is getting the averse one to admit these feelings so that the other spouse can make an informed decision.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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