# Is this legitimate or is it just more of the same?



## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I won't post all of the backstory, but there is a long-time history of issues within my 25 year marriage. I have been struggling for at least the last eight to find happiness with what seems to be a LD/HD compatibility issue. I am afraid to even post this because I know some will say I have been dealing with this for years and why am I STILL here..................but I'm going to share anyways. I keep holding out that maybe this will be the one time that something changes.

So, husband has NOT wanted any intimacy since back in December. After 2 months of nothing, and me trying and getting rejected, he said he had health issues which he needed to get resolved. He said if it didn't resolve by April, he would get it checked. It's now the end of May and he hasn't went to get it checked. I started asking in late April, usually once a week. He would seem perturbed when I asked and it got to the point where it was no longer perturbed, but major blow-ups. I told him of course I was concerned for his health, but also because I really missed him and he knows I tend to get emotionally distant when we aren't physically close for so long (his "ideal" is about 1x a month, and I have learned to just make that work, but it is hard to stay emotionally checked in). He keeps saying he is still going to give it more time. I asked him what about kissing and other things that wouldn't interfere with whatever his problem is, and he said he just wasn't into it, he feels like he has a lot of built-up resentment over 25 years mainly because we moved to the house I wanted?!?!? Tells me if we can buy a new house somewhere else that is more to his liking, it will help with his resentment issues (and I guess as a byproduct,would make him want to be with me more). I do NOT want to go deeper in debt to get another house when i don't know how his behavior is going to be...............I already have been seriously evaluating this relationship for some time - not just for the lack of intimacy but his anger issues. NO COUNSELOR - already asked, already been turned down for years.

My questions about both about the medical issue and the resentment over the house..............are these legitimate reasons? Am I being too unreasonable with it being a medical situation? I know I have had my share of medical things including one for a prolonged time many years ago - I surely don't want to treat him in a way that I wouldn't want to be treated. Only difference with mine, I was gettting treatment as soon as I felt bad. Also, he has gained about 100 pounds over the last 10 years, and I truly think feels bad about himself.

Any thoughts on ANY of this and if I am overreacting and/or being unreasonable?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You initially posted about your marital problems on 4/10/15. Fast forward over three years later ... Yes, it IS more of the same. No, it doesn't matter if it's legitimate or not.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

SERIOUSLY.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

You are likely about the age where his metabolism is slowing, while his food intake remains the same as when he was younger and burning those calories off. His health is not at all helped by the extra 100 lbs, and it is likely that this extreme adipose storage is creating insulin resistance and keeping a host of hormones "tied up", one important of those being testosterone.

I have no doubt that he feels bad about himself. You are exactly on-track with this being a strong reason to get with his doctor and explore some alternative choices. He can be helped through medication, diet, and exercise.



LilMissSunshine said:


> he has a lot of built-up resentment over 25 years mainly because we moved to the house I wanted?!?!?


I seriously doubt it. I mean, I don't doubt he's resentful, but I don't believe that is the reason. Most men don't really care where they live. But HOW they live is quite another matter.....



LilMissSunshine said:


> I do NOT want to go deeper in debt to get another house when i don't know how his behavior is going to be.......


My guess is that DEBT is the reason for his resentment. Debt can indicate to a man that he's not "pulling his weight" and "supporting his family like he should". The resentment comes in because he likely sees himself "pulling" as hard as he can, but cannot escape the debt-trap.

If I'm right, moving to another house, going deeper in debt, is going to make his behavior worse, not better.



LilMissSunshine said:


> if I am overreacting and/or being unreasonable?


no, and no.

Before 8 years ago.....would you have described yourselves as HD/LD? Or did this begin then?

Am I reading "between the lines" and getting that his "problem" is ED ?

You don't have to answer.... it's not important. But if that is the issue, you need to stress getting to a doctor more. This can be an early warning sign of coronary artery disease. He may also be prediabetic or even fully diabetic.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's just more of the same.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

In a prior thread from 2016, you mentioned that due to an inheritance *you* received from a family member, the house you're living in is *bought and paid for* and Prince Charming didn't have to put one red cent into the purchase.

Your first mistake was not putting that money in your own private account and NOT co-mingling it with marital assets because he now owns half of your inheritance. I find it amusing that he 'resents' that you bought the house. He didn't pay for it, and he'll get half of it in a divorce settlement, but he 'resents' it. What a complete douche.

Why you waste your time with this ass-clown is beyond me.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Listen, I don't even need to read your other posts. 

He is fat, and has let himself go. Yeah he feels bad about himself. Yeah, yeah, whatever. 

I assume that he is having some ED problems. That can be fixed with a pill, and the overseas stuff works just as well. 

You would not be the last women to leave a sexless marriage, frankly, I know several. Many of them in the past I had known known. 

He will not change, he has given up, so you have a decision to make. 

Stay and be miserable or leave and be happy...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Prodigal - I feel like what is holding me back is the nagging doubt that there is something more *I* could do - of course he is going to say it is all ME, but I wonder sometimes if it really is. He takes no ownership of any of it. I have this fear that I am missing something that I could do and then I leave a 25-year relationship regretting it later.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

TJW, I think he has always been somewhat LD, but going back years ago it was more 50/50 and even. I know for a fact when he took the T-shots several years ago it made a difference. He said he didn't feel any different. I saw a difference in his behavior and just overall happiness. He seems to think we have always fought about it, even back in the beginning. His health issues are a huge concern. He is trying to lose weight, however has been saying since January that he will go to the doctor - and here it is end of May and still he is trying to see if things improve on their own. And unwilling or us to have ANy physical contact until that doctor visit has happened.

I still don't know about the resentment issues and getting into debt by taking out a large mortgage. I really don't. He makes more than I do by far, so I am not sure what to say about that. He just says for years he has resented living in a home that I liked more than he did (he 'settled' to make me happy and now it's my turn to give a little and to get something that he likes, though he DOES want it to be something I am happy with as well. My issue is I don't want to move unless there is a good reason since our home is paid for. Is THAT being selfish? IS his reason a "good reason" and should I want to go because he does?).


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> In a prior thread from 2016, you mentioned that due to an inheritance *you* received from a family member, the house you're living in is *bought and paid for* and Prince Charming didn't have to put one red cent into the purchase.
> 
> Your first mistake was not putting that money in your own private account and NOT co-mingling it with marital assets because he now owns half of your inheritance. I find it amusing that he 'resents' that you bought the house. He didn't pay for it, and he'll get half of it in a divorce settlement, but he 'resents' it. What a complete douche.
> 
> Why you waste your time with this ass-clown is beyond me.


Yes, you are correct. And I just didn't know better at the time, I should have protected myself financially but didn't know. He said he didn't expect that we would live here for the rest of our lives when we both agreed to move into the house we are in................and I am being selfish for not taking his wishes into account now............he has hated the house for all these years and thinks it's time for us to do something that works for BOTH of us (to his credit, he said he wants to move somewhere that we BOTH would be happy with - right now, says it is just ME that is happy. Honestly, if I knew the rest of our relationship would work itself out, I would not be opposed to moving - but why move and then find out the other big problem is still there? Then we are in debt and still have the same other problem). Just trying to sort through it all - and why do I waste time with him? Well - he is the father of my children AND I honestly am scared that there is something *I* have not done or need to do which would magically fix this, and that's it not him at all - if I leave and discover later I could have done more, will feel really bad about throwing away a 25-year relationship.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

BluesPower said:


> Listen, I don't even need to read your other posts.
> 
> He is fat, and has let himself go. Yeah he feels bad about himself. Yeah, yeah, whatever.
> 
> ...



It is hard to do after 25-years and a lot of HAPPIER times. I don't want to leave and realize there was something more I could have done ((


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What would the "something more" be? Giving him another year or two (or five or ten) to sort out his health and to consider doing something about your sex life and his anger issues? Take on more debt to see if a new house makes him resent you less? Does he know you're seriously evaluating your marriage -- sometimes that can be a wake-up call for those who think it's survived this long so it will survive to the end. 

Yes, it's difficult to leave a long marriage. Very difficult. But sometimes it's necessary in order to be at peace with your life. Only you know if it's necessary for you.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Openminded said:


> What would the "something more" be? Giving him another year or two (or five or ten) to sort out his health and to consider doing something about your sex life and his anger issues? Take on more debt to see if a new house makes him resent you less? Does he know you're seriously evaluating your marriage -- sometimes that can be a wake-up call for those who think it's survived this long so it will survive to the end.
> 
> Yes, it's difficult to leave a long marriage. Very difficult. But sometimes it's necessary in order to be at peace with your life. Only you know if it's necessary for you.


Well, the "something more" would have to be whenever he gets the health issues resolved, which there is no time frame for that. Says he want to wait it out to see if it will go away on its own (has been five months now) and will see a doctor after that if it doesn't. He says that there will be NO physical contact until then. He says I should be the one initiating physical contact with him, that he is done with pursuing me (he says he did it for the 3 years he was on the shot and now it's up to me - which makes me feel like if it was something he really WANTED to do, he would do - makes it sound like a chore, when he says it's all up to me - am I wrong to feel that way?). I go to bed at 9:30 and he stays up until 2 or 3 with hobbies (yes, he gets by on very little sleep), so my window of time is to get up before he does in the mornings - which also means HE won't be initiating anything since he sleeps until 10:00 or so and I am already half done with my morning by that time. Would it be reasonable for me to try this once health issues are resolved? Or is the fact I am having to wait so long with no end in sight unreasonable in and of itself? 

He does know that I am evaluating - actually told me if I am that unhappy to go ahead and go, that these problems will repeat themselves with anyone else I might meet. Last time I actually mentioned it, he came back the next day with a detailed spreadsheet of how we were going to divide everything up! It didn't seem to bother him at all.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You are holding yourself back. Thinking there is something more YOU could do to salvage a crappy marriage is nothing more than magical/what-if thinking. Basically, you are just afraid to be alone. Living with a crummy partner is better than no partner at all, right?

Being in love with the past, which is NEVER coming back, and someone's (or a relationship's) potential, is not a reason to stay. It's an excuse.

You may have been a victim at one time. Now you're just a volunteer. And I don't think you're ever going to leave this relationship. With that in mind, it's time for you to suck it up and make the best of WHAT IS rather than living with WHAT IF.

Again, NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Well, the "something more" would have to be whenever he gets the health issues resolved, which there is no time frame for that. Says he want to wait it out to see if it will go away on its own (has been five months now) and will see a doctor after that if it doesn't. He says that there will be NO physical contact until then. He says I should be the one initiating physical contact with him, that he is done with pursuing me (he says he did it for the 3 years he was on the shot and now it's up to me - which makes me feel like if it was something he really WANTED to do, he would do - makes it sound like a chore, when he says it's all up to me - am I wrong to feel that way?). I go to bed at 9:30 and he stays up until 2 or 3 with hobbies (yes, he gets by on very little sleep), so my window of time is to get up before he does in the mornings - which also means HE won't be initiating anything since he sleeps until 10:00 or so and I am already half done with my morning by that time. Would it be reasonable for me to try this once health issues are resolved? Or is the fact I am having to wait so long with no end in sight unreasonable in and of itself?
> 
> He does know that I am evaluating - actually told me if I am that unhappy to go ahead and go, that these problems will repeat themselves with anyone else I might meet. Last time I actually mentioned it, he came back the next day with a detailed spreadsheet of how we were going to divide everything up! It didn't seem to bother him at all.


You are hoping things change but you could be waiting years for him to do anything and he may never. It doesn't appear that he's really interested in you or your marriage based on how quickly he put that spreadsheet together. Not to mention he told you to go if you're unhappy. What did you say to all of that? 

Maybe he just wants you to make the first move so he doesn't have to be the bad guy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Yes, you are correct. And I just didn't know better at the time, I should have protected myself financially but didn't know. .


See a lawyer about this. You might be able to reclaim your inheritance, or at least most of it out of the house.

One of the down sides of selling this home and rolling the equity into another home is that the paper trail to your inheritance becomes less clear. Is his name on the deed for the house you are in now? I find it interesting that you basically gave him 50% of your inheritance and he accuses you of making things all about you. That's hardly you being selfish. Have you ever pointed this out to him?

Perhaps tell him that you thought that you were doing both of you a good thing purchasing a house that was 100% paid for. And he did go along with it. But now that you know he is profoundly unhappy about the house, you will be glad to sell the house and put your money into an account in your name only. Then the two of you can split any equity. But you keep your base inheritance amount. 

You can have an attorney draw up a post-nup for this.

See how much he reacts to this.

You say that he took T supplements a few years ago and they worked, meaning that you saw a difference in him. And now he will not take them. Of course, he gained wait. That's one of the side-effects of low T. He is not going to lose weight, at least not very easily.

From things I have read, most of the time when a person withholds sex, the reason is a passive aggressive way to punish their spouse for perceived wrong doings. It sounds like this is what your husband is doing.

The house is an excuse he’s using as it serves his purpose. If you sell the house and move, he’ll just find something else to be pissed off about. Your husband resents you. AS long as he holds on to that resentment he does not have to address his own problems (like his health and weight) and he does not have to work to fix your marriage. Selling the house and moving is not going to fix anything. This is about him and your broken marriage, not the house.

Here is a link to a thread that might give you some help. Read at least the first few pages as it has some resources listed. *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html*


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> TJW, when he took the T-shots several years ago it made a difference.
> He seems to think we have always fought about it, even back in the beginning.


Clue #1. This is a good insight to his perspective. He is "rewriting history"....



LilMissSunshine said:


> he 'settled' to make me happy and now it's my turn to give a little and to get something that he likes,


Clue #2. "your turn"....

Mid-life-crisis. Your husband is suffering, inside. He's coming in touch with his "time running out". And, he doesn't know how to "escape" the
"trap" he feels closing around him.

When I reached my MLC, at about 50, my resentment was just boiling. I was SICK of being what everybody else wanted me to be. This was supposed to be "the prime of life"....but I felt more like "prime rib" - everybody was eating off me....

I wrote a short letter, to my wife, with the title "3 Little Words" - but in the text of the letter, the 3 words were "...tag....you're it...". I told her in this letter that I was completely sick of being "it"...make the money. Pay the bills. Hire someone to clean the house. Hire someone to do the laundry..... I had been EVERYTHING and had worn all the hats for 25 phucking years, and now, guess what? For the next 25 years, by God, it's YOUR TURN to be in the barrel. You are going to now waste YOUR time and YOUR money and spend YOUR efforts and fight with YOUR fears and YOUR anxieties, and I am going to do NOTHING. My turn to do what you did for the last 25, for the next 25, while you do what I did for the last 25, for the next 25.

Thankfully, I never let her read it. It was one of my more self-pitying and self-interested moments. I have recovered now for the last 10 years or so, I have been more attentive to the morals and beatitudes which I truly espouse, and do truly eschew the attitudes and behaviors I demonstrated during "the fog".




LilMissSunshine said:


> My issue is I don't want to move unless there is a good reason since our home is paid for.
> IS his reason a "good reason" and should I want to go because he does?).


His reason is not a good reason....and you should not "buy in" to this MLC crap one bit. BTW....you may have not protected yourself financially in the past, but now's the time when you absolutely should. 

I just watched my wife's former boss, at 52 years old, leave his wife and his family, and take up with a 26-year-old drug-addicted skank. He damned near ran his good, profitable business into the ground, got in trouble with the police (and formerly, he was part of the neighborhood watch and had regular meetings with police and other officials with the purpose of protecting his family and others) for supporting the floozy's habit. He paid unbelievable amounts of money to be her KISA (knight in shining armor) who tried to "rescue" her.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation and that is has not improved over the years.

One thing about your husband's 'health issue' - it sounds like he is just waiting for "it" to clear up on its own. Is "it" really something that will go away on its own?

Even though something like losing weight is hard, there are things that he can do to make it happen if he really wanted to. Simple things like eating less food and drinking more water.

Yeah, there will be some tough moments when you actually feel super hungry but if he really wanted to, he could at least try it.


Good luck.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I won't post all of the backstory, but there is a long-time history of issues within my 25 year marriage. I have been struggling for at least the last eight to find happiness with what seems to be a LD/HD compatibility issue. I am afraid to even post this because I know some will say I have been dealing with this for years and why am I STILL here..................but I'm going to share anyways. I keep holding out that maybe this will be the one time that something changes.
> 
> So, husband has NOT wanted any intimacy since back in December. After 2 months of nothing, and me trying and getting rejected, he said he had health issues which he needed to get resolved. He said if it didn't resolve by April, he would get it checked. It's now the end of May and he hasn't went to get it checked. I started asking in late April, usually once a week. He would seem perturbed when I asked and it got to the point where it was no longer perturbed, but major blow-ups. I told him of course I was concerned for his health, but also because I really missed him and he knows I tend to get emotionally distant when we aren't physically close for so long (his "ideal" is about 1x a month, and I have learned to just make that work, but it is hard to stay emotionally checked in). He keeps saying he is still going to give it more time. I asked him what about kissing and other things that wouldn't interfere with whatever his problem is, and he said he just wasn't into it, he feels like he has a lot of built-up resentment over 25 years mainly because we moved to the house I wanted?!?!? Tells me if we can buy a new house somewhere else that is more to his liking, it will help with his resentment issues (and I guess as a byproduct,would make him want to be with me more). I do NOT want to go deeper in debt to get another house when i don't know how his behavior is going to be...............I already have been seriously evaluating this relationship for some time - not just for the lack of intimacy but his anger issues. NO COUNSELOR - already asked, already been turned down for years.
> 
> ...


Eight years? I don't know anybody who's been dissatisfied that long who ever got it resolved. And - nothing in your posting suggests that progress is likely.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Update: I am scared to really even post this because I don't want to get flamed, and my emotional state is so fragile anything will likely put me over the edge...............BUT..............I am desperate, hurt, and don't have anybody else to talk to so I need to put this out there. It's been two months since I started this post, and six years off and on of dealing with the underlying problem. I decided last weekend to ask for some time to discuss our status and when he thought things were going to be resolved, since it has been going on for so long and it has been two months since it was last discussed with no effort, progress, discussion, anything ( I didn't use those words, basically just asked if we could continue our discussion from May, as it was really weighing on me)..........BIG mistake. He went into a full-blown rage. He has had a few rage incidents over the years, both in regards to this as well as the kids (which he doesn't do so much anymore). I have NEVER seen anything like it. Nothing physical, but OMG the things that came out of his mouth. I was crushed. He said his medical issues are resolving but basically he hasn't been happy over the last three years because I have continued to ask him about our differences (LD/HD) and asking him to be more initiating. Was livid when he described me asking him routinely about it and how it just grated on him, used hand gestures, mocking voices of how I would ask him about us being together more often, etc. I was never mean, rude, or nagging when I asked him in the past, just told him it was really bothering me the amount of time we spent together and could we please work on it. I guess he saw it as nagging and it has finally gotten to him to the point where now, we have had NO contact since late last year if I think back to get a more accurate time frame, and he is raging if I even ask about it. I have to say I have never seen him THIS angry even with earlier rages. 

Question - and it's not 'will he change' - I think that question has been answered. I told him it would make me so very happy if we could find a resolution to this as it is an important marriage issue and something important to me. A comment he made in the midst of all of the rage was "It's not my job to make you happy. Or to give love on demand. Get a dog." Knocked me down mentally. I understand "happiness is an inside job," but in a marriage relationship, aren't we supposed to count on our spouse for key things, without which we are NOT happy? Honestly, just trying to find out if I am truly asking too much and need to truly take heed of his words and try to find happiness within, OR if there is a legitimate expectation that a spouse will WANT our happiness and will contribute towards it).

Secondly, I am somewhat concerned about the raging anger after this last incident. I have 0% worry there will be anything physical. But some of the things he said are still going through my mind and it is days later. I'm having flashbacks, anxiety, and cannot seem to be focused on work or anything else. Is there more to this than just anger and should I be concerned?

I am scared to push "submit" in fear of what comments I will get, but again, scared to say anything to anybody I know in real life and really need some answers.

Sunshien


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

When are you going to realize that your H has some really big issues, and he is not getting help for them? 

When are you going to realize that if you want to be happy, you must file for divorce?????


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Blues, I have been married to him for TWENTY-SIX years!!! And have two kids. And I do love him. This is our only "problem" area........it just seems like giving up nine good things for one bad. I struggle with it because of "all of the above"................is it wrong for him to say "It's not my job to make you happy" ??? I am feeling like *I* am the one with the problem and if i could figure out exactly what would fix it, this would all go away................I just can't figure out WHAT the fix is.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Update: I am scared to really even post this because I don't want to get flamed, and my emotional state is so fragile anything will likely put me over the edge...............BUT..............I am desperate, hurt, and don't have anybody else to talk to so I need to put this out there. It's been two months since I started this post, and six years off and on of dealing with the underlying problem. I decided last weekend to ask for some time to discuss our status and when he thought things were going to be resolved, since it has been going on for so long and it has been two months since it was last discussed with no effort, progress, discussion, anything ( I didn't use those words, basically just asked if we could continue our discussion from May, as it was really weighing on me)..........BIG mistake. He went into a full-blown rage. He has had a few rage incidents over the years, both in regards to this as well as the kids (which he doesn't do so much anymore). I have NEVER seen anything like it. Nothing physical, but OMG the things that came out of his mouth. I was crushed. He said his medical issues are resolving but basically he hasn't been happy over the last three years because I have continued to ask him about our differences (LD/HD) and asking him to be more initiating. Was livid when he described me asking him routinely about it and how it just grated on him, used hand gestures, mocking voices of how I would ask him about us being together more often, etc. I was never mean, rude, or nagging when I asked him in the past, just told him it was really bothering me the amount of time we spent together and could we please work on it. I guess he saw it as nagging and it has finally gotten to him to the point where now, we have had NO contact since late last year if I think back to get a more accurate time frame, and he is raging if I even ask about it. I have to say I have never seen him THIS angry even with earlier rages.
> 
> Question - and it's not 'will he change' - I think that question has been answered. I told him it would make me so very happy if we could find a resolution to this as it is an important marriage issue and something important to me. A comment he made in the midst of all of the rage was "It's not my job to make you happy. Or to give love on demand. Get a dog." Knocked me down mentally. I understand "happiness is an inside job," but in a marriage relationship, aren't we supposed to count on our spouse for key things, without which we are NOT happy? Honestly, just trying to find out if I am truly asking too much and need to truly take heed of his words and try to find happiness within, OR if there is a legitimate expectation that a spouse will WANT our happiness and will contribute towards it).
> 
> ...


Sun, I feel for you. That's a horrible way to be treated.

You already know the likelihood of him changing. Sometimes, improvements require compromise - his desires may not change but he may be more accommodating to yours, and you more accommodating to his. IMO, this can only work if you're not very far apart anyway. It did not work for my LD/HD issues in my marriage.

Rage - this is not an acceptable response to a person you're supposed to care about. You're right, happiness is an inside job (love the way you put that), but your most intimate partner IS responsible for his behavior and he behaved in a fashion that would make anybody feel unsafe. And, his refusal to acknowledge even the most remote of possibilities of adapting toward your needs is another way of emotionally pushing you away.

If there's hope for the relationship, it will require intervention by a counselor and a willingness on both parts to adapt to the other...and I don't hear that he'll be willing.

Take care of yourself, please. Eat well. Sleep well. Get aerobic exercise - it really helps the brain chemistry to cope with emotional situations. And, my suggestion - find a counselor for yourself and start asking things like "if we have no future, how do I go about planning a life without him?".


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Dusty, I have been seeing the same counselor for six years when this all got started, though there were lengthy breaks during that time. I am supposed to go back later this week. I asked him to go and he said "110% absolutely NO and don't ever ask me that again." Part of the rage. He made it very clear he will not go. He went in 2012 twice (I thought it was only once, he said twice), but said he will never go back, doesn't need someone to tell him how to live. I told him he could pick the counselor, still NO. I having a really, really hard time functioning since this incident and it was four days ago. I am not thinking well, crying all of the time, and keep seeing the look of anger on his face during this "conversation" - a look I cannot even describe. It has been awful. I just want to be sure there isn't something I can do - or not do- which would fix whatever has gotten us to this point. Thank you for all of your comments - and I will try to take care of myself once I can get my emotions in check.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I think that I would start by checking his cell phone bill out as well as all of the activity on his social media sites!

There appears to be a snake in the woodpile! And a rather sizeable one at that!*


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Theres no shame in leaving a marriage because of lack of intimacy. 

Start your exit plan. It will take 2yrs to get divorced. Save some money. Get the ball rolling. Your kids will be fine.

Or accept it.

Let me ask you. Would you even want to be intimate with him...after awhile its like hell I don't enjoy having sex with someone who dosn't desire me .

When you get to this point in my opinion its time to part ways.


Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Update: I am scared to really even post this because I don't want to get flamed, and my emotional state is so fragile anything will likely put me over the edge...............BUT..............I am desperate, hurt, and don't have anybody else to talk to so I need to put this out there. It's been two months since I started this post, and six years off and on of dealing with the underlying problem. I decided last weekend to ask for some time to discuss our status and when he thought things were going to be resolved, since it has been going on for so long and it has been two months since it was last discussed with no effort, progress, discussion, anything ( I didn't use those words, basically just asked if we could continue our discussion from May, as it was really weighing on me)..........BIG mistake. He went into a full-blown rage. He has had a few rage incidents over the years, both in regards to this as well as the kids (which he doesn't do so much anymore). I have NEVER seen anything like it. Nothing physical, but OMG the things that came out of his mouth. I was crushed. He said his medical issues are resolving but basically he hasn't been happy over the last three years because I have continued to ask him about our differences (LD/HD) and asking him to be more initiating. Was livid when he described me asking him routinely about it and how it just grated on him, used hand gestures, mocking voices of how I would ask him about us being together more often, etc. I was never mean, rude, or nagging when I asked him in the past, just told him it was really bothering me the amount of time we spent together and could we please work on it. I guess he saw it as nagging and it has finally gotten to him to the point where now, we have had NO contact since late last year if I think back to get a more accurate time frame, and he is raging if I even ask about it. I have to say I have never seen him THIS angry even with earlier rages.
> 
> Question - and it's not 'will he change' - I think that question has been answered. I told him it would make me so very happy if we could find a resolution to this as it is an important marriage issue and something important to me. A comment he made in the midst of all of the rage was "It's not my job to make you happy. Or to give love on demand. Get a dog." Knocked me down mentally. I understand "happiness is an inside job," but in a marriage relationship, aren't we supposed to count on our spouse for key things, without which we are NOT happy? Honestly, just trying to find out if I am truly asking too much and need to truly take heed of his words and try to find happiness within, OR if there is a legitimate expectation that a spouse will WANT our happiness and will contribute towards it).
> 
> ...


What you describe here goes a lot deeper than a lack of physical intimacy due to any health issues. Your husband is angry at you. It does not sound like he loves you anymore either. 

You seem to think that you have only one major issue in your marriage... your sex life. But you have many issues and they are manifesting as a problem in your sex life. The lack of sex is a symptom, not the problem.

Most of the time, when a person stops having sex in a marriage it's a passive aggressive way to punish their spouse for real or imagined wrong doings. After this blow up, it's pretty clear that he's extremely anger at you and he wants to hold on to that anger. Why? Because anger is working for him. In his mind, his anger is giving him some kind of power in your relationship.

Why would you subject yourself to years of this kind of abuse? And yes, his anger and withholding of sex is emotional abuse. Abuse is all about control/power. 

Your husband is refusing to work with you to fix your marriage. Therefore, your marriage cannot be fixed. It takes two to tango. Sounds to me like it's time for you to get a divorce.

Here is a link to a thread that has some resources that might help you. It's a long thread, but read at least the first couple of pages where resources are provided....

*https://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Blues, I have been married to him for TWENTY-SIX years!!! And have two kids. And I do love him. This is our only "problem" area........it just seems like giving up nine good things for one bad. I struggle with it because of "all of the above"................is it wrong for him to say "It's not my job to make you happy" ??? I am feeling like *I* am the one with the problem and if i could figure out exactly what would fix it, this would all go away................I just can't figure out WHAT the fix is.


You are the one with the problem. You want a real marriage and your husband doesn't. You can't fix a marriage by yourself. 

And, you know perfectly well that the sex is not the only issue - it's the only issue you're focusing on. You could be having sex 7 days a week and the other issues would still rear their ugly little heads.

You can't resolve his health problems or his hatred of your home - in fact, you can't do anything to improve your marriage. All you can do is protect your mental, emotional and physical well being. If that means separating, so be it.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

So how do I find out the root of the anger, Elegirl?? Since he also has in the past exhibited lesser blow-ups with the kids and for just random things that happen that would frustrate anybody, it can't be JUST me that he has anger issues with - right? That would be what I would think. So how can I find out WHY the anger? If I can find out that, then maybe that's a clue towards at least having a shot at fixing it. I will look at the link you shared.................

Chillymorn, yes, I am about to that point. Don't really want to. But wondering how long this could POSSIBLY go on. And why isn't HE taking action to leave if he is THAT unhappy??? And why do you say 2 years for a divorce? I visited some attorney websites for my state and they said 60 days + another 30 since we have minors living at home. Is that just 'best case' scenario? What would make it 2 years?

Abritrator, I don't have access to his phone records - company provided phone. And he has no social media. Anything else I could check??


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> So how do I find out the root of the anger, Elegirl?? ... So how can I find out WHY the anger? If I can find out that, then maybe that's a clue towards at least having a shot at fixing it. I will look at the link you shared.................


Here's the thing: It is HIS anger. If he wants to figure it out, fine. It is NOT your job/responsibility to figure out why he goes on rants and rages. YOU DON'T OWN HIS EMOTIONS; HE DOES.

What you have here is a great example of codependency in all its glory. You can't fix him. You can only fix you. You can't figure him out. You can only figure yourself out. And while you are attempting to waste your time over his issues, it would behoove you to figure out your own - issues, that is.



LilMissSunshine said:


> But wondering how long this could POSSIBLY go on. And why isn't HE taking action to leave if he is THAT unhappy???


It never ceases to amaze me how people will remain stuck in toxic, harmful, and godawful relationships. Yet they persist. If you can't figure out who you are, how the heck do you expect to figure him out?

That's your problem. Get back on your side of the street, find your backbone, and just be done with this hot mess. Seriously.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

YES, Prodigal. You are right on all that you said..............it makes sense. Why it is so hard for me, I don't know. But I hope I can sort through it. Am hoping to figure that out when I see the counselor again. It has just got to stop.

Another thing, after these rages, he never truly apologizes, though sometimes I'll get a quick "sorry" the next day. And then that is followed by everything else seeming all normal. As long as I don't bring up anything related to an intimate relationship, there's a 70% chance there won't be any blow-ups...........other 30% just random blow-ups with anybody in the house and/or just life frustrations causing a blow-up. I know it's HIM and not me, it still just bugs me I can't understand all of this anger stuff and have question upon question, feeling a need to just UNDERSTAND it, even if it is true I cannot fix him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> So how do I find out the root of the anger, Elegirl?? Since he also has in the past exhibited lesser blow-ups with the kids and for just random things that happen that would frustrate anybody, it can't be JUST me that he has anger issues with - right? That would be what I would think. So how can I find out WHY the anger? If I can find out that, then maybe that's a clue towards at least having a shot at fixing it. I will look at the link you shared.................


You cannot find out the root of his anger. It’s his anger. He has to do that work. There is nothing that you can do to fix his anger. 

When he has lessor blowups at the children, does he denigrate them in the same manner that he denigrated you when he blew up with much more intensity at you? Does he also mistreat your children when he’s not angry/frustrated with them? Because he’s also mistreating you in the way he’s treating you a good part of the time.

You are trying to fix him. That means that you trying to control/fix him. And the more you try to fix him, the angrier he will get because he does not think that there is anything wrong with him. In his mind, you are the problem. 

He will not fix it because the anger serves some purpose for him. Withholding sex in your relationship serves a purpose that, in his head, he benefits from.
What you are doing is the very definition of codependency. You would probably benefit from reading this book....

*Codependent No More & Beyond Codependency *
by Melody Beattie 




LilMissSunshine said:


> Chillymorn, yes, I am about to that point. Don't really want to. But wondering how long this could POSSIBLY go on. And why isn't HE taking action to leave if he is THAT unhappy???


How long could this go on? Years. I was married to a man who withhold sex for 7 years. (I tried to leave at the 3 year mark but legal issues prevented me from leaving.) Yes 7 years. There are couples who go on for decades like this… living in misery and anger. Since your husband will not work to deal with his anger, his lack of interest in sex with you and your marriage the chance of you ever having a good sex life with him again is about zero.



LilMissSunshine said:


> Chillymorn, yes, I am about to that point. Don't really want to. But wondering how long this could POSSIBLY go on. And why isn't HE taking action to leave if he is THAT unhappy??? And why do you say 2 years for a divorce? I visited some attorney websites for my state and they said 60 days + another 30 since we have minors living at home. Is that just 'best case' scenario? What would make it 2 years?


This depends on your state laws, your local courts and the particulars of your situation. 



LilMissSunshine said:


> Abritrator, I don't have access to his phone records - company provided phone. And he has no social media. Anything else I could check??


One thing you can do to check is to put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car, hidden up under the front seat. If you do this, use adhesive backed Velcro to secure it in place. Most people who cheat use their car as a private phone booth. They talk to their affair partner while driving places like work because they know that no one can eaves drop. If you do this, know that it’s basically illegal. So you would not want to tell him or anyone that you are doing it. You would also not want to tell him that you got any info this way.

One of my sisters did this in her bedroom. But put a VAR under their bed. That’s how she found out that her husband was bringing his affair partner home during lunch.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

You'll never understand it. If he is not willing to go to counseling to get himself help and working and understanding his issues on his own....and you being able to be privy to that information...you will never understand it. You need to stop the codependency and move on. This is not a marriage you live in....it is a roommate situation. And an (emotionally and mentally) abusive one.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I was once in your position exclusive of health issues--25 years married. Having huge triggers right now. Took me enduring three of his explosive rage incidents (about three years apart) including horrid verbal abuse, belittling, vicious lies. I finally thought, "I'd have to really despise someone to talk to them like that." The light bulb finally went on. (Each of the three times I was trying to plead for our marriage--long sexless as he withheld to punish me for who knows what.) 

Bottom line was, I was working to stay together when he was working to drive me to divorce. I was such a slow, slow learner. T'was hard to admit my marriage was a failure. Finally granted him his wish, what a relief. Turns out others had seen how he treated me just in everyday life, but I did not know this.

Now know he is passive-aggressive and a narcissist. The logical explanation/fix for which I was searching did not exist. Please don't relive this cycle over and over--you owe yourself a better life.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Why it is so hard for me, I don't know. ... Am hoping to figure that out when I see the counselor again.


It would probably help to ask your counselor to discuss codependency with you at your next session. I hope you have a decent counselor who keeps you focused on you and not your husband.



LilMissSunshine said:


> As long as I don't bring up anything related to an intimate relationship, there's a 70% chance there won't be any blow-ups....


If you can't bring up an issue that genuinely concerns you without being met with rage, then you don't have much of a marriage, do you?



LilMissSunshine said:


> I know it's HIM and not me, it still just bugs me I can't understand all of this anger stuff and have question upon question, feeling a need to just UNDERSTAND it, even if it is true I cannot fix him.


First and foremost you need to understand why YOU tolerate this from him. The point I'm trying to make here is you don't know why YOU are putting up with the situation. Make that your priority, not him.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

LMS, I know what keeps some people in bad relationships: hope. You have hope that he will see the light, face his "whys" that bring on his anger, go to the Dr. and fix his hormonal issues, weight issue, quit being resentful over the house and finances, etc.

However your husband has made it crystal clear that not only does he have no intention to change he has no desire to change anything. He believes that YOU are at the root of all his problems, as well as your problems.

Your husband gaslights to get the focus off unpleasant things. He blames you for all problems, rather than discussing them. He yells to get you to back down (he's a bully) so he doesn't have to talk about things that are unpleasant for him. Rather than apologize for his behavior, or discuss anything the next day, he rug sweeps.

It is difficult to leave a long marriage, even if it is a bad marriage. Have you ever heard of the "sunk cost fallacy"? You are living it. You believe you have already spent so much time and effort on the marriage that you don't want to give it up, and thus are wasting more time and effort in it.

When you realize that you are wasting your life and losing years of happiness in something that is not getting better and has clear signs that it will never change, then you will decide to not waste the remaining years of your life in a miserable marriage.

Would you rather be unhappy and married to this man for the rest of your life, or happy and single, or happy and with someone else?

It is your choice.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's just not interested. Sure, you can spend the rest of your life searching for something, anything, that will make him be interested. Plenty of people who stay in bad marriages do that. Are they happy? Hardly. Do you really want to be one?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thank you all. I am reading and reading again and trying to let some of this sink in. I know I need to work on myself and not try to figure him out. It's hard. But I need to do it.

SunsetMist, were the three rage incidents all about your marriage in general or the lack of intimacy? Did he have anger issues outside of that or was it just one topic/area?

Prodigal, Araucaria, Open-minded - I don't disagree on most of what was said, I truly appreciate your thoughts. Printing all of this out and reviewing before my appointment this week.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Have you gotten the book Love Busters by Willard Harley? Another good one is His Needs Her Needs by the same author.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> Have you gotten the book Love Busters by Willard Harley? Another good one is His Needs Her Needs by the same author.


Both these are frequently recommended on the Marriage Biolders forum. In fact, the only place I ever heard of Lovebusters was on the forum.

They are good books.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> Both these are frequently recommended on the Marriage Biolders forum. In fact, the only place I ever heard of Lovebusters was on the forum.
> 
> They are good books.


I learned about both of those books as well as other books here on TAM. Of all the book recommendations I have read here and read, those two seemed to have the most "meat" and practical help for a struggling marriage.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I have NOT heard of or read those, but will check them out. I did read "5 Love Languages" several years ago and it really helped me understand a lot about our differences. Couldn't get him to read the book - or even the chapters I copied and highlighted that I thought were pertinent - but it DID teach me a lot! 

I am a little worried that this is becoming more of a mental health issue vs. a relationship issue. It probably has all along and i am just now opening my eyes to see it. After that last episode and not being able to recover for five days (it's actually five days today and I'm finally starting to wind down a little).

Very much looking forward to my therapy appointment as I think she will be able to point me in the right direction.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

*"
SunsetMist, were the three rage incidents all about your marriage in general or the lack of intimacy? Did he have anger issues outside of that or was it just one topic/area?"*

Incidents were not about marriage in general, but were when I tried to resurrect some kind of closeness/intimacy. He did not have anger issues otherwise except a constant underlying anger at me. No matter what I did or tried, it was wrong.

We did not really have a marriage, but it was like our union was a competition to him. I came to realize he wanted me to 'fail' so anything I tried to do for him, set him off. However, the gigantic rage explosions were emotional abuse--deeply cruel and wrenching. I kept trying to figure this out, but there is/was no answer. He wanted out of our marriage and wanted me to be so miserable that I would leave. Read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

sunsetmist said:


> *"
> SunsetMist, were the three rage incidents all about your marriage in general or the lack of intimacy? Did he have anger issues outside of that or was it just one topic/area?"*
> 
> Incidents were not about marriage in general, but were when I tried to resurrect some kind of closeness/intimacy. He did not have anger issues otherwise except a constant underlying anger at me. No matter what I did or tried, it was wrong.


This is exactly my situation. Anytime I try to resurrect some kind of intimacy/closeness. It has been since last fall. Each month that goes by solidifies that nothing is changing. And the fact I cannot ASK about it means nothing is changing. So my options are to a. bottle it up inside and expect to keep living like this, or b. find out why I am immobilized and GO. I'm working on "b" as I've tried "a" for too long. 

How awful were his outbursts? How does one know the difference between "normal" anger and couples that "fight loud" vs. true rage? I think this is true rage, but I need somebody to validate that before I believe it. We have somewhat always been "loud" over the years (really more HIM, I'll be loud every great now and then), but this time it seemed to go wayyy beyond 'loud' with all of the insults, horrible language, etc. There is definitely a lot of underlying anger towards me. Breaks my heart. I used to be someone he put on a pedestal in so many ways. And the sweet things he would put in cards. It's like two different people.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

@LilMissSunshine, how did your appointment go?

You need to STOP STOP STOP trying to figure out WHY he does what he does, and get the hell out of this marriage. Don't bother with the damn relationship books, they are not going to help you. GET OUT. You will never understand and you don't need to, you just need to look out for yourself and your kids. I was in the same position as you and @sunsetmist. I had a husband who developed a deep rage and resentment towards me and to this day, I don't know why. And it doesn't matter. What matters is I could no longer tolerate the way he was treating me and my daughter and I got the hell out. Not one single second of regret in the last 10 years that I did it, either. 

No man is worth this bullsh!t. NONE.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Well, I do have a little bit more news. This happened after my appointment, which did go well. There isn't much more the counselor can say that she hasn't already said. It takes two, and that isn't happening here. Thank you for asking, 3xcharm. 

I DO have somewhat of an update that happened after the appointment. I found out a little more about his resentment. It came quite unexpectedly as the "conversation" had resurfaced again and was already at the level of a blow-up, but then I agreed with something he said as a peace-making gesture. He actually started to soften up a little and told me that he has resented all of the last 3 years (not sure where he is getting the 3 years) of me chipping away at him and telling him something is wrong with him for not being an initiator. Says that when I asked him and hinted around that it wasn't seen as an invitation, but rather "hey, something is wrong with you, why aren't you initiating." He says I was the one slipping up by not keeping it 50/50. His definition of me initiating is direct action, mine was hinting around and doing things that indicated I was interested, but maybe not DIRECT action. So while I thought it was 50/50, he never saw my actions as "doing my share" because it wasn't something direct. I don't know I feel about all of that, but it does make some sense. He says I just wore him down to the point of where he has no interest right now and isn't sure if it will come back. Any thoughts on this?

Also, for what it's worthy, I am having a hard time knowing whether or not to trust my memory and heart or to go more with what he is describing, that I appeared never to initiate. In my heart, I can remember an isolated time or two when he came down and I literally had tears in my eyes because it had been so long - I was so grateful he approached me, it made me tear up. I always remembered that. Which is why I am leaning towards trusting my heart and my memory that it was very lop-sided and that it wasn't always ME.

Anyways - I am feeling like I am in one of those "toxic yet committed" relationships that someone posted about in another thread. We have gotten to be toxic with each other as well as in front of the kids. But I keep staying because of HOPE. And though I am not super religious, I am somewhat religious and my readings are always about putting the other first and focusing on SERVING rather than receiving. So I remain torn. I seriously think the outbursts and verbal stuff are abusive. A while back I would have said 'borderline abusive' - now, I truly think it has crossed that line. Which I know isn't 'covered' in the "serve vs. receive" biblical philosophy and is reason to go. There still is that HOPE that I have.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Sounds like your situation is unique to y'all if he is at all conciliatory. At least you are talking. I learned long ago how to control my temper--nothing ever gained by letting him bring me down to his level. There were years of secret tears/grief. Perhaps marriage counseling if your husband would agree would give you both a mediator and create a feeling of safety. Wish y'all luck.

BTW: My mom died in the hospital. He was at home when I finally got home late at night. He said, "I'm sorry, I don't know what to do except this." And then, we had "sex' for the first time in years. I, of course, was numb with grief. Later, I tried to appreciate his effort, but even more important, I realized just how controlling he was--we just weren't on the same page with our lives, needs and emotions.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

sunsetmist said:


> Sounds like your situation is unique to y'all if he is at all conciliatory. At least you are talking. I learned long ago how to control my temper--nothing ever gained by letting him bring me down to his level. There were years of secret tears/grief. Perhaps marriage counseling if your husband would agree would give you both a mediator and create a feeling of safety. Wish y'all luck.
> 
> BTW: My mom died in the hospital. He was at home when I finally got home late at night. He said, "I'm sorry, I don't know what to do except this." And then, we had "sex' for the first time in years. I, of course, was numb with grief. Later, I tried to appreciate his effort, but even more important, I realized just how controlling he was--we just weren't on the same page with our lives, needs and emotions.


This last time was the ONLY time he has been conciliatory. I was shocked. He still will not see the counselor - the current one OR one of his choosing - but we finally had a conversation that had a semblance of reasonableness to it. I was pleased to get that. I am going to see what happens. WOW about his reaction with your mom's passing. I am not sure I would have known how to respond!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's my take on why you remain stuck. Again, this is only my OPINION: Trauma bonds occur in very toxic relationships, and tend to be strengthened by inconsistent positive reinforcement - or at least the hope of something better to come. Trauma bonds can occur in any ongoing attached relationship in which there is a great deal of pain interspersed with times of calm (or maybe less pain).

I am going to challenge you right now. Can you respond by talking about YOU. Not how you respond to him. Not trying to figure him out. Not giving his opinions of you any credence.

Can you briefly explain why you stay? Just you. What is going on inside of YOU that is keeping you stuck? Again, don't even bring him into the response.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Also, for what it's worthy, I am having a hard time knowing whether or not to trust my memory and heart or to go more with what he is describing, that I appeared never to initiate. In my heart, I can remember an isolated time or two when he came down and I literally had tears in my eyes because it had been so long - I was so grateful he approached me, it made me tear up. I always remembered that. Which is why I am leaning towards trusting my heart and my memory that it was very lop-sided and that it wasn't always ME.


He has gaslighted you and blameshifted everything on to you for so long that he has you questioning your own mind and making up excuses. You know good and well that it hasn't always been JUST you. Good that you are realizing that, at least. 



LilMissSunshine said:


> Anyways - I am feeling like I am in one of those "toxic yet committed" relationships that someone posted about in another thread. We have gotten to be toxic with each other as well as in front of the kids. *But I keep staying because of HOPE. *And though I am not super religious, I am somewhat religious and my readings are always about putting the other first and focusing on SERVING rather than receiving. So I remain torn. I seriously think the outbursts and verbal stuff are abusive. A while back I would have said 'borderline abusive' - now, I truly think it has crossed that line. Which I know isn't 'covered' in the "serve vs. receive" biblical philosophy and is reason to go. *There still is that HOPE *that I have.


HOPE CHANGES NOTHING. 

Hope doesn't get you anything except further stuck exactly where you are. You are correct in that he is abusive, no borderline about it. And YES you are in one of those "toxic commitments."


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Well, I do have a little bit more news. This happened after my appointment, which did go well. There isn't much more the counselor can say that she hasn't already said. It takes two, and that isn't happening here. Thank you for asking, 3xcharm.
> 
> I DO have somewhat of an update that happened after the appointment. I found out a little more about his resentment. It came quite unexpectedly as the "conversation" had resurfaced again and was already at the level of a blow-up, but then I agreed with something he said as a peace-making gesture. He actually started to soften up a little and told me that he has resented all of the last 3 years (not sure where he is getting the 3 years) of me chipping away at him and telling him something is wrong with him for not being an initiator. Says that when I asked him and hinted around that it wasn't seen as an invitation, but rather "hey, something is wrong with you, why aren't you initiating." He says I was the one slipping up by not keeping it 50/50. His definition of me initiating is direct action, mine was hinting around and doing things that indicated I was interested, but maybe not DIRECT action. So while I thought it was 50/50, he never saw my actions as "doing my share" because it wasn't something direct. I don't know I feel about all of that, but it does make some sense. He says I just wore him down to the point of where he has no interest right now and isn't sure if it will come back. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> ...


Everything he is saying is absolute BS
. You husband is a lazy, angry, emotionally abusive, selfish man. And have you read I Cor. 7? He is violating it. And that IS sexual sin. You have grounds to leave due to his abuse and his sexual sin.

I stayed in a marriage for 2 decades, one of which was sexless. My ex did not rage as loudly as yours, but he definitely used all the passive aggressive, punishing crap. He was also self-absorbed and did not take responsibility for himself - not just with sex, but with his health, finances, and employment.

Leaving was the hardest thing, and yes, in spite of all his issues, there WERE some people who still judged me. But it was the single best thing I could have done for myself. I was on 3 or 4 types of medication for depression, anxiety, stomach issues, inability to sleep. I am on none of those particular meds now. I almost never smiled. Now I do. I was a recluse (because of his extreme introversion). I have friends and do things and see the sun now.

There will nevger be a right time or a time when you have zero doubts. Leap anyway. You are past the MC and good book phase.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't rely on hope to make everything better. You see where that's gotten you so far. 

My guess is you'll stay so keep working on you and ignore him.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> Here's my take on why you remain stuck. Again, this is only my OPINION: Trauma bonds occur in very toxic relationships, and tend to be strengthened by inconsistent positive reinforcement - or at least the hope of something better to come. Trauma bonds can occur in any ongoing attached relationship in which there is a great deal of pain interspersed with times of calm (or maybe less pain).
> 
> I am going to challenge you right now. Can you respond by talking about YOU. Not how you respond to him. Not trying to figure him out. Not giving his opinions of you any credence.
> 
> Can you briefly explain why you stay? Just you. What is going on inside of YOU that is keeping you stuck? Again, don't even bring him into the response.


Prodigal, I have tried to think through your question. Why do I stay. I think a big part of it is fear of change. Fear of not being able to make it on my own. Fear of starting ALL over at 51 when i have worked so hard to get where I am and what all I would lose. And fear of all of the questions of 'why' after such a long marriage (i.e., people automatically assume it's because of a 3rd party, since they know we don't have other serious issues like alcohol, drugs, things like that). I would say it's fear of change and fear of losing everything and starting all over with nobody but ME to fall back on should something happen with job, sickness, etc. I don't even think leaving would be bad on my kids (one is 18 and the other almost 16) at this stage, so that isn't a factor. AND, if I can add this: FEAR that I gave up RIGHT before the next 'thing' I tried would have worked and I come to regret it years down the road. Is that too long of an answer for one question?? Trying to speak from the heart!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> Everything he is saying is absolute BS
> . You husband is a lazy, angry, emotionally abusive, selfish man. And have you read I Cor. 7? He is violating it. And that IS sexual sin. You have grounds to leave due to his abuse and his sexual sin.
> 
> I stayed in a marriage for 2 decades, one of which was sexless. My ex did not rage as loudly as yours, but he definitely used all the passive aggressive, punishing crap. He was also self-absorbed and did not take responsibility for himself - not just with sex, but with his health, finances, and employment.
> ...


Mine also will not take responsibility for his health in particular, and managed to gain over 100 pounds (some of his reasons were legit - injuries and trouble exercising - but I still think he could have done better with the eating), won't go get checked for low-T and other things, etc. and also some of his personal finances (we have some accounts that are separate). He DOES do great with work/job. NOBODY except my mom and brother know what is going on, and would have a hard time believing any of this if I told them. I haven't been house-bound, but it has crushed my spirit and turned me into someone I didn't use to be. I think it may be like having a baby - I had TONS of doubts and waited seven years before we even thought about it. Always thought I had to have ALL of the finances worked out, job nailed down, school done, travels completed, EVERYTHING had to be in place before a child could be conceived............at some point I realized that day would never come. I see it kind of the same here. And I agree, it's past the MC and good book - I've done both of those for six years now. I think I will eventually get to a good place where I can make change. It just isn't clicking right now. I read up on traumatic bonding that someone mentioned here and I think that may be at play here. Never heard of it until now!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Don't rely on hope to make everything better. You see where that's gotten you so far.
> 
> My guess is you'll stay so keep working on you and ignore him.


I know (( I guess I am the eternal optimist. I AM going to continue working on me. That's the best thing I can do for now. Absolutely know I won't be able to fix him. I think that point has sunk in with me and has been there for a while - so progress finally made realizing THAT!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think a big part of it is fear of change. Fear of not being able to make it on my own. Fear of starting ALL over at 51 when i have worked so hard to get where I am and what all I would lose. And fear of all of the questions of 'why' after such a long marriage (i.e., people automatically assume it's because of a 3rd party, since they know we don't have other serious issues like alcohol, drugs, things like that). I would say it's fear of change and fear of losing everything and starting all over with nobody but ME to fall back on should something happen with job, sickness, etc.


I have tremendous respect for you. You're being honest and are admitting your fears at the thought of leaving.

Why don't you think you could make it on your own? Do you have a job that pays a decent wage/salary? Keep in mind you say, "... I have worked so hard to get where I am ...". That tells me you COULD make it on your own. What do you stand to lose? Do you think you would have to pay support to your husband, or are you in a community property state where you fear half of what you've earned during the marriage would be split with your husband?

Maybe you need to realize that if anyone was to ask you why you left the marriage, you could tell them it's none of their business. I certainly can see explaining to close friends or family. But you don't owe anyone an explanation for the decisions you make.

Please consider this: In the end, you only have YOU. It sounds like your self-esteem is shaky and you are indulging in what-if thinking. What do you think the worst thing is that could happen - you end up homeless and hungry out in the streets with not a single friend? (That's the worst-case scenario I can come up with.) How about your children? Don't you think they would offer you love and support to the best of their abilities?

I'll give you a brief synopsis of my situation. I left my husband when his alcoholism lost him his third job in five years. When I left, I had cancer. I had no job. I had no health insurance. The economy was pretty bad in 2009. The only thing I can tell you is I just knew there was something better out there for me. And I really had the deck stacked against me. I took a job for $9.50 an hour at a Chik-fil-A in a mall food court. I lived in an approximately 250 square foot room that was termed a "studio apartment." It was built over a 150 year old horse barn. 

I'm not telling you this to downplay your hesitancy to leave, nor am I telling you this because I think I'm some sort of strong woman. I'm not. Even though I was afraid at times, I did what I genuinely felt was best for me regardless of my fears. Hell, if I could survive, I feel anyone can make it. 

Today I live in a spacious 2 bed/2 bath apartment. I retired from a real job and I'm not destitute. Granted, I don't have a huge nest egg, but I do okay. I enjoy life. I don't have the fear of being abused. I don't have to deal with a man who was actually losing his mind and trying to take me down with him. My cancer went into total remission as of September 2011. It has never returned. I have decent health insurance, so if anything else goes kaput, I'd have adequate medical care. I don't have a man in my life, I don't need a man in my life, and I don't want a man in my life at this time.

There is hope for a better life. I'm proof of that.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> I have tremendous respect for you. You're being honest and are admitting your fears at the thought of leaving.
> 
> Why don't you think you could make it on your own? Do you have a job that pays a decent wage/salary? Keep in mind you say, "... I have worked so hard to get where I am ...". That tells me you COULD make it on your own. What do you stand to lose? Do you think you would have to pay support to your husband, or are you in a community property state where you fear half of what you've earned during the marriage would be split with your husband?
> 
> ...


Wow, Prodigal, I think you ARE a strong woman. Good grief, look at what all you had to deal with and yet you still were brave enough to leave. I do have a job, I have insurance, but I am close to retirement age and if something ever happened with that job, I am afraid it would be hard to get hired into a comparable job being over 50 (I have worked there a long time so have worked my way up there, wouldn't make that rate anywhere else), and I'll somehow end of having to work until I'm 90 years old - that truly is one of my biggest fears with the finances. And of course health insurance is important the older we get (which BTW, that is AWESOME about your remission..........I have several friends who have battled cancer - some with not so good outcomes (( I think just giving up half of what I have worked for (community property state) is what would also be hard. He earns far more than I do so I would not have to pay him. But I would be at a financial disadvantage with community property laws being what it is. I suppose it could be worse. I admit I have NO confidence right now, and not sure about self-esteem. Maybe part of it is due to being mentally and emotionally beat down in this situation, I don't know. I do know that my eyes are opening about a lot and I'm going to challenge myself to do a little better each day. Thank you for your encouragement. I have learned a lot already, even though I am sure many think I am crazy for staying.


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

Hi LilMissSunshine. I've prayed for you and hubby.

I feel like maybe you need a different counsellor. I'm not sure this current one has been helpful for you. Not much has seemed to change. Sexual intimacy is a major need of the marriage.

I've not been married as long as you, but I been married long enough. I would be giving my husband an ultimatum on the health issue. See a doctor before 2 weeks goes by. Nothing is too be gained in waiting for the issue to clear. Only a little pride lost in seeing a doc for a chat and basic blood tests.

Another ultimatum I would give is that we must go to counseling together. Committing for a minimum number of sessions. Perhaps 8? First appointment before 2 weeks. We had many slow but positive changes over the years through counseling on and off.

If both of these aren't done in 2 weeks then I would be moving out or insisting that he moves out. Separating until he gets his act together. Not getting divorced! Giving you both time and space to think about what you want to do. If you separate and he decides he does want to make it work then I would insist on you staying separated and going to counseling together while you are separated to repair the relationship before moving back in together. If you come back together too soon then you will be back at square 1.

Maybe the separation will wake him up to what he wants and show him that he wants you! Maybe it will lead to divorce down the track. Either results could be a positive direction for your both.

You say you are a little religious but not much. I encourage you to find a good church and attend regularly. You can build support around you and have others praying for your marriage. Nothing to be lost by trying this.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

One thing that you can do for yourself is to set up a consultation with a divorce attorney. Some will offer a free 30 minute or so consultation. At least, you will be able to determine just what you would be looking at financially. Don't let the list your husband made up be your determining factor - the court may see it very differently. Get your questions written down in advance so you don't waste valuable time.

You can also consider what it would look like after divorce i.e would you want to downsize or even take on a roommate to help with finances. 

Don't let fear rule your life. You're only 51 and there are still a lot of good years left for you. And, a lot of good men out there.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

LilMissSunshine- I literally just left a 25 year marriage of very similar circumstances, May would have been 26 years. Our marraige was completely sexless for the last eight years and verbally abusive with lots of mind games and manipulation. When I finally reached the point where I couldn’t take it anymore I had a part time job making less than a full time minimum wage job and no health insurance. I was terrified. I was so worried about how my three kids would be affected and how I was going to survive out on my own. But, I knew beyond any doubt that living on the edge financially and being on my own even with all the fears I had would be a huge step up for me. 

And like you I hung on for years in the hope that he would finally wake up and see that the way he was treating me was destroying our life together and then he would change. I did see the potential for that in him but whatever his issue is, whatever his hang ups are, they were so ingrained in him after years and years of me allowing him to treat me that way that there was no chance for change because like you we were in a power struggle and no way in hell could he ever admit that he was wrong. His pride and need to be right and his need to put himself before all else would never allow that so the door to healing could not be opened, it was locked up tight.

I thought I loved him almost up until the end but what I loved was the idea of what that potential could bring to us, I loved how good what could have been could be. I lived in a fantasy and that’s what kept me hanging on for so long. I couldn’t wait for him to change any longer though and that was the hardest thing, letting go of that hope. I moved out 3 weeks ago, the divorce was final in February, and I still think about that hope, on a daily basis still but now it’s more like a grieving process. A letting go. It sucks hard but I know it’s got to happen. That kind of hope and the feelings that come along with it don’t just turn off suddenly with divorce, it’s a process.

I’m sharing because I see so much of myself in you and wanted you to have a glimpse of what may lie ahead if you do leave. It’s hard but at the same time it’s not. It’s both sad and wonderful. A death of sorts occurs but then you get your second chance at life, a rebirth, to live in peace and live your life on your terms in any way you wish. You take your life back and yes it’s scary because so much could go wrong, but so much could go very right. You deserve everything that you don’t have right now and only you can give yourself that.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

mrsluvmyhub said:


> Hi LilMissSunshine. I've prayed for you and hubby.
> 
> I feel like maybe you need a different counsellor. I'm not sure this current one has been helpful for you. Not much has seemed to change. Sexual intimacy is a major need of the marriage.
> 
> ...



Yes, I don't ever expect any treatment on the medical issue. It's been six months since it was first brought up, so it would have already happened by now. I am not expecting him to follow through at this stage. I already asked about counseling and he is 110% opposed. I am just kicking the can down the road, I know. I want to get my child situated in the first year of college next month and can't stand any upheaval right now. Also, I understand your thought with separating, but if i do that, that's less money I can save in case I need to move forward if I am spending it on rent. I wouldn't have anywhere else to go except to rent! Meaning a one-year lease in order to get payments I could afford (I actually have checked on this - I have been doing a LOT of homework, actually). I think I need to stick it out maybe 'til the first of the year and then say ENOUGH. Gives me time to save, time for him to make a turnaround if there is any chance at all, and then I can say I gave it my best at that point. After I get my child situated, that's only three more months.............we are in a Christian school (kids) and I am afraid those parents would be at some of the churches I go to - and would NEVER understand what was going on in my house. I would just be the one 'that left' ( We were regular church goers for 20+ years up until a few years ago when H got mad at church #1 (we had been there 20 years) and then church #2 he was a sporadic attender. I don't want to go unless I can be fully immersed and regularly going, so between those issues, we just stopped. I would be willing to try again, but just feeling bad about people perceiving things wrong. I know, it shouldn't matter..........but it will bother me


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> One thing that you can do for yourself is to set up a consultation with a divorce attorney. Some will offer a free 30 minute or so consultation. At least, you will be able to determine just what you would be looking at financially. Don't let the list your husband made up be your determining factor - the court may see it very differently. Get your questions written down in advance so you don't waste valuable time.
> 
> You can also consider what it would look like after divorce i.e would you want to downsize or even take on a roommate to help with finances.
> 
> Don't let fear rule your life. You're only 51 and there are still a lot of good years left for you. And, a lot of good men out there.



Thanks, Blondilocks. I feel younger than my years, and even H says I look like i am in my 30's, so I feel I do have a lot of good years left, but then sometimes I get down and realize the reality is that I AM 51 and any relationship I might find, they will have as much baggage as me. But then again, there could be someone just like me who will LEARN from that baggage and not carry it forward, maybe even becoming a BETTER person for the next R. Who knows. I am letting fear rule, I know. I actually thought his written plan wasn't that bad, but it definitely would be an adjustment going from two incomes to one - especially with mine not being that high. I seriously would LOVE to have a low-maintenance condo with no yard work. With one leaving the nest and another one doing the same in a few short years, the extra room and big house isn't necessarily a requirement in the near future. I also might not mind looking for a roommate after I have had some time to be myself and just adjust for a while. I would have to be very clear on pets, no smoking, and other preferences.............and would have to do a thorough background check. I see and hear oo much on the news, lol!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Not - thank you for sharing your story. Wow, it does sound like we have a lot of similarities. I just keep hanging on, but it is getting harder and harder. I think what you said is it - it has become INGRAINED in him at this point, and I have allowed it to go on the way it has, so why would he change? I also think I am living in the fantasy of what could be instead of what is. And at some point you just have to realize it is a fantasy. If you don' mind me asking, what was the final breaking point for you? At what point did you decide you were just going to move forward? And how long had you been contemplating it before you actually did it? What did he say when you told him (did he try to talk you out of it? Did he acknowledge at all how things had been and that it wasn't acceptable - even a LITTLE acknowledgement?). How long did the whole divorce process take? So many questions, but your story does sound so similar to mine. I wonder if the actual divorce part would be easy as compared to this 'limbo' of 'what do I do' that I have put myself in now for almost four years. DAILY I am battling this in my head. Almost seems like the divorce process would be simple compared to all of this (though I admit, I am fearful of what all that would entail as well - sounds like a LOT of stress and legwork). Thank you for jumping in and sharing..........I hope you will consider sharing more. This board has helped me tremendously, even though most posters probably would disagree since I am still 'stuck' - but it HAS. I have soaked it all in and it has helped greatly.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Not said:


> LilMissSunshine- I literally just left a 25 year marriage of very similar circumstances, May would have been 26 years. Our marraige was completely sexless for the last eight years and verbally abusive with lots of mind games and manipulation. When I finally reached the point where I couldn’t take it anymore I had a part time job making less than a full time minimum wage job and no health insurance. I was terrified. I was so worried about how my three kids would be affected and how I was going to survive out on my own. But, I knew beyond any doubt that living on the edge financially and being on my own even with all the fears I had would be a huge step up for me.
> 
> And like you I hung on for years in the hope that he would finally wake up and see that the way he was treating me was destroying our life together and then he would change. I did see the potential for that in him but whatever his issue is, whatever his hang ups are, they were so ingrained in him after years and years of me allowing him to treat me that way that there was no chance for change because like you we were in a power struggle and no way in hell could he ever admit that he was wrong. His pride and need to be right and his need to put himself before all else would never allow that so the door to healing could not be opened, it was locked up tight.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I just posted to you, but it didn't include your message. I wanted to make sure you saw my response


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Having stayed in a very long marriage much too long and then having finally gotten out, my experience was that the "limbo" of staying -- with all of that uncertainty -- was many times more difficult than the divorce was.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Not - thank you for sharing your story. Wow, it does sound like we have a lot of similarities. I just keep hanging on, but it is getting harder and harder. I think what you said is it - it has become INGRAINED in him at this point, and I have allowed it to go on the way it has, so why would he change? I also think I am living in the fantasy of what could be instead of what is. And at some point you just have to realize it is a fantasy. If you don' mind me asking, what was the final breaking point for you?


I had known for years that it was over but stayed out of dedication to keeping our family whole. When I finally made the decision that the time had come it wasn’t because he had gotten worse it was because something happened that showed me that I was throwing my life away and that I was living under a rock in fear of what might happen afraid to come out because I was scared. I had never been on my own before. He was the same as he had always been but I changed.

My sons girlfriend was killed in a car accident, that’s what opened my eyes. She lost her chance at everything and here I was cowering with fear not living at all. I was literally throwing my life away. I felt so much shame in face of the fact that she now had no chance at all. That’s when I woke up and decided to move forward and not let anything stop me. There was lots of fear during the entire process but I kept my focus on what I wanted. I had many many low moments and came here often to put the fear to words and get it all out and had lots of support from the ladies and gentlemen who are now posting in this thread for you.



> At what point did you decide you were just going to move forward? And how long had you been contemplating it before you actually did it? What did he say when you told him (did he try to talk you out of it? Did he acknowledge at all how things had been and that it wasn't acceptable - even a LITTLE acknowledgement?). How long did the whole divorce process take?


The contemplating part began after sex had fully ceased and that was all my doing. I could not be intimate with someone who I felt had no respect or genuine concern for me. Though I still was hoping for change and that kept me hanging on for another 8 years. He never, not once, asked about sex or why things were the way they were. It was fall of 2016 when I finally began researching divorce. I was trying to plan a slow/easy exit thinking it would be better for everyone that way ( I was always the peacemaker) but then one night when an argument occurred and xH punched the wall above D16’s head that was it, things sped up quite a bit. That was fall of 2017. He had never done anything like that before but it was exactly what needed to happen to get me to act. I was all words and no action before that point. I was doing a lot of talking (stalling) but nothing concrete. It’s so much easier to vent and talk and seek advice than it is to actually DO something. 

It’s really really hard to get out of that stalling point and I see you doing it but I think it’s a perfectly normal part of the fear process. A change this big cannot not be scary as hell. You’re looking at empty space ahead of you, a complete unknown and that keeps you frozen in place but reality keeps taking bite after bite out of you and you reach that point where you realize that you DO know what your life is now and you realize the unknown is better than what you do know.

XH’s reaction when I told him was very nonchalant, he said he knew it was coming and the only reason he hadn’t done it himself was because of the money. He said I was ruining his plans to retire early. He complained and whined about money through the entire process. I could have take him to the cleaners but chose not to, I just wanted enough to help me get up on my feet and be done with it. The one positive in doing that is that he hasn’t been able to use that against me with family and friends so it’s helped in that department. 

And nope, he never took any responsibility for anything except for one short text apologizing for treating me badly but then treated me badly again that night at dinner. 

His mom told me that he cried when he broke the news to her but he never showed any emotion in my presence, just shoulder shrugging and comments of “oh well” when discussing our split. He could not show me that side of him if that side actually was real. I’m not sure that I believe his crying to his mom was genuine and not a show he put on to gain sympathy.

The entire process took three months from the date of filing to the date it was made final. We used a mediator together to save money (he’s all about money) and mostly agreed on everything. He wanted to keep everything, the house and everything in it so there were some rough patches when trying to explain to him that if that’s what he wanted then I would need a higher settlement so that I could acquire the same things, he didn’t like that at all but he painted himself in a corner in that regard. 




> So many questions, but your story does sound so similar to mine. I wonder if the actual divorce part would be easy as compared to this 'limbo' of 'what do I do' that I have put myself in now for almost four years. DAILY I am battling this in my head. Almost seems like the divorce process would be simple compared to all of this (though I admit, I am fearful of what all that would entail as well - sounds like a LOT of stress and legwork). Thank you for jumping in and sharing..........I hope you will consider sharing more. This board has helped me tremendously, even though most posters probably would disagree since I am still 'stuck' - but it HAS. I have soaked it all in and it has helped greatly.


It is a lot of work, there’s so much that will need to done but it’s not much different than say a family moving to another home, logistically speaking. All of the talk in your head and the emotional upheaval will continue but you’ll be on the road to resolving these life issues that are screaming for resolution. You’ll take charge and do what you know in your bones needs to be done. And it’s ok to feel the fear, it will be your fuel pushing you forward.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Having stayed in a very long marriage much too long and then having finally gotten out, my experience was that the "limbo" of staying -- with all of that uncertainty -- was many times more difficult than the divorce was.



That confirms what I thought might be the case. This being in limbo is making me emotionally and physically ill. I seriously wondered if the D process would be significantly easier compared to this. I can't imagine it being much worse, as this has been extremely troubling and for a very long time. Thank you for sharing your experience, Openminded - your response is somewhat of a relief to me!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Having stayed in a very long marriage much too long and then having finally gotten out, my experience was that the "limbo" of staying -- with all of that uncertainty -- was many times more difficult than the divorce was.





Not said:


> I had known for years that it was over but stayed out of dedication to keeping our family whole. When I finally made the decision that the time had come it wasn’t because he had gotten worse it was because something happened that showed me that I was throwing my life away and that I was living under a rock in fear of what might happen afraid to come out because I was scared. I had never been on my own before. He was the same as he had always been but I changed.
> 
> My sons girlfriend was killed in a car accident, that’s what opened my eyes. She lost her chance at everything and here I was cowering with fear not living at all. I was literally throwing my life away. I felt so much shame in face of the fact that she now had no chance at all. That’s when I woke up and decided to move forward and not let anything stop me. There was lots of fear during the entire process but I kept my focus on what I wanted. I had many many low moments and came here often to put the fear to words and get it all out and had lots of support from the ladies and gentlemen who are now posting in this thread for you.
> 
> ...



Wow, that is just terrible about your son's girlfriend. I can see how something like that would impact someone. I haven't had any big wake-up calls, only know that another year goes by and I ask myself if I will be sitting in this same position a year from whatever day it is at the time. Been going on for six years now, so how long will I let it go on? I kind of think sometimes my frame of mind is that at some point maybe I will just become numb to it and I'll learn to just accept it, and just go about life not really caring anymore. But then I ask myself if that was the case, wouldn't I already have gotten to the point of acceptance? I know I need to do something. 

My kids are 16 and 18. I also wanted to try and hold out. I made it with one..........the other, I would have two years. I don't know if I can make it another two years. Wondering if anyone else would say just to stick it out two more years after this long -w hat's two more years, right? Some days I feel that way, but then when I am laying there at night by myself feeling lonely like I do 7 nights out of 7, all by myself while he is doing whatever it is he is doing that night, OR when he has just had one of his other rages or temper fits, the 2 years seems impossible. That's scary about yours punching the wall, Not.

I think the not being able to retire part is worrisome to me, too. NOt for HIM, but for me. I could spend the next 15 years really stashing away some dollars, but not if I am on my own. I'll definitely be working right up until retirement, vs. right now I could easily do an early retirement in 4 years, or stretch it out a little longer for 9 years if I wanted extra time. Those choices are taken away from me once I leave. Maybe that's part of what is so scary, too. Not having that freedom anymore. I do know mine would not want to stay in the house, he made that clear when we came close to splitting up last year before I got scared and retracted (we actually thought we were splitting up for about a week until I got scared and told him I couldn't go through with it). 

As far as the work involved, aren't you in an attorney's office pretty frequently? And having to pull together voluminous amounts of records, documents, etc. things you may have to get from a zillion different places?! I'm not even sure how I would get some of what I think they would need. Having had a mediator, I take it there was nothing to make it contested, right? I'm learning how all of this works. So right now, I have researched living arrangements, made a budget of what my expenses might be, what funds I already have, have started copying important documents..............what is next ? Visiting the attorney and ?????? 

My H will be angry and probably blow-up, unlike yours, Not. The time I had mentioned it before, he wanted me to leave. Didn't even try to get me to stay, didn't say how much he loved me, nothing. Just blamed all of the problems on me. I'm sure he would tell his family that as well.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think the not being able to retire part is worrisome to me, too. NOt for HIM, but for me. I could spend the next 15 years really stashing away some dollars, but not if I am on my own. I'll definitely be working right up until retirement, vs. right now I could easily do an early retirement in 4 years, or stretch it out a little longer for 9 years if I wanted extra time. Those choices are taken away from me once I leave. Maybe that's part of what is so scary, too. Not having that freedom anymore. I do know mine would not want to stay in the house, he made that clear when we came close to splitting up last year before I got scared and retracted (we actually thought we were splitting up for about a week until I got scared and told him I couldn't go through with it).


You are allowing your fear to dominate your life and, ultimately, your choice to be happy. 

All this worrying about money .... Do you make an inadequate salary? Is the cost-of-living in your area really high? Do you have loads of credit card debt? Do you have any investments - 401(k), pension, savings?

A lot of your fear boils down to wanting to play it safe. However, playing it safe also means you want to be assured life will go as planned. Financially secure. Nice material things. Nice house. Nice car. The thing is, life happens. I worked out at a gym 5-6 days a week. I was in the best shape of my life, both emotionally and physically. Then I got a cancer diagnosis out of the blue. No symptoms. Felt great. A routine blood test showed that I had the dreaded "big C."

But I assure you that when you are on your deathbed you aren't going to regret you didn't buy more crap, own a new car every five years, or live in a 3,000 square foot house. You WILL regret not having lived a fulfilling, happy life. To get to that level of fulfillment? You have to be willing to take a gamble and roll the dice. Life is not all about security and safety; it's about living. To quote that movie phrase, "get busy living or get busy dying."

Your life. Your choice.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

LilMissSunshine It is obvious he won't change and resents you. So he has a physical problem that prevents intimacy but won't go to Drs. and is 100 lbs overweight? Don't worry about calling a Dr., call an insurance agent an get a large life insurance policy on him. When you ask him to sign them keep a big smile on ur face and be prepard to run just in case. The thought of you spending his life insurance should piss him off enough to make changes. If it doesnt and he does sign them since hugging and kissing are "not him" tell him you will leave him alone if he will agree to an open relationship. He needs help but on he cant do that for him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I have initiated two divorces in my past, and I can tell you this... the massive RELIEF that you feel once you finally make that decision and you actually step out on your own is beyond words. After you live with the limbo, the indecision, the fear for so long, it becomes your normal, and you don't realize how NOT normal it is until you finally break out. Yes its scary, but its also incredibly liberating and freeing. I had zero regret both times. And quite frankly, I have never met someone who has divorced who has regretted their decision, the only regret I ever hear is that they waited so damn long.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> You are allowing your fear to dominate your life and, ultimately, your choice to be happy.
> 
> All this worrying about money .... Do you make an inadequate salary? Is the cost-of-living in your area really high? Do you have loads of credit card debt? Do you have any investments - 401(k), pension, savings?
> 
> ...


I do make a decent salary, though cost of living here is one of the highest (on the top 20 list, maybe even top 10), no credit card debt, and I do have a reasonable 401k balance (4x my salary - but according to experts, should be more than that for my age). I think I am probably thinking I am worse off than I really am financially. I do feel secure right now, and guess I'm not used to knowing what it might be like to be 'not so secure'.............but, you are right about one day not regretting more "stuff"...........I've got the "stuff" right now yet look where I am at mentally and emotionally for the last six years. I sooo need to print all of these posts and keep reading them - and reading them - and reading them. And WOW about your diagnosis. The ones I know who have been diagnosed, some of them would be the ones I would least expect with their healthy lifestyles. It does go to show we just never know what life has in store, for sure. For sure a cancer dx would put it all in perspective - I know it has for those in my circles. Such words of wisdom, Prodigal.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Blaine said:


> LilMissSunshine It is obvious he won't change and resents you. So he has a physical problem that prevents intimacy but won't go to Drs. and is 100 lbs overweight? Don't worry about calling a Dr., call an insurance agent an get a large life insurance policy on him. When you ask him to sign them keep a big smile on ur face and be prepard to run just in case. The thought of you spending his life insurance should piss him off enough to make changes. If it doesnt and he does sign them since hugging and kissing are "not him" tell him you will leave him alone if he will agree to an open relationship. He needs help but on he cant do that for him.


Well, we have life insurance on both of us and have for about 20 years. Of course he wasn't overweight and with all of the health concerns he has now either. There would be NO WAY he would ever agree to an open relationship. I am going to have to go about this another way if change is to be made. I am not happy about the weight gain, but neither is he. I do think it bothers him more than it bothers me, actually.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> I have initiated two divorces in my past, and I can tell you this... the massive RELIEF that you feel once you finally make that decision and you actually step out on your own is beyond words. After you live with the limbo, the indecision, the fear for so long, it becomes your normal, and you don't realize how NOT normal it is until you finally break out. Yes its scary, but its also incredibly liberating and freeing. I had zero regret both times. And quite frankly, I have never met someone who has divorced who has regretted their decision, the only regret I ever hear is that they waited so damn long.


I have to believe this about the decision-making part of it. I honestly don't see how ANY amount of paperwork, legwork for legal issues, etc. could be as miserable as this 'limbo' stage I am in. I truly don't. It's good to hear those sentiments about no regret - having regret is one of the big fears (other than financial) that I have.


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