# Fiancee Lied about BC got pregnant and then went and had an abortion



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Hello all, I am new here and in need of some advice on my relationship. My Fiancee and I are both 28 she is black and I am white we have been together for 12 years yep since high school just beating the odds. Well, we both are settled in and have our careers going and finally just moved in together. Anyways we have both always wanted kids but we were waiting until after we got married which we have been saving money for the wedding and so we have been practicing a lot of safe sex BC condoms the whole nine yards. Well, a while ago she told me she wanted to have sex without the condom and not to worry she was still on her BC as well. So I said what the hell, anyways a little bit after that she told me she was pregnant and it was a shock I am not going to lie with how careful we have been. Well, she confessed she didn't use the morning after pill and she had stopped taking her BC. So I was naturally quite angry. But that subsided and I was honestly really excited about becoming a father. But then she drops the bombshell that she had gone and gotten an abortion without even freaking talking to me. Because she didn't want me to be angry at her or be resentful of this child. I am not going to lie this was an incredibly hurtful betrayal of trust to me and I just didn't know what else to do so I broke up with her or at the very least put things on hold and I have been staying with a friend for a few days. She has been heartbroken and in tears and begging me to come back but I don't know if I can, The lies coupled with killing our child just it has broken my heart and I don't know how to cope or move past this. I mean I still love her more than anything in the world I just do not know what to do. I do still love her a lot, you can't wipe away 12 years worth of feelings and emotions that easily. But my trust feels very much so broken. She has never lied or been dishonest with me before so I am unsure why she decided to do so here instead of talking with me like we normally have always done.


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## Mr.Married

Really bad sign ......No relationship no matter how strong your "perception" of it can be built on deception and lies. Purposeful impregnation without your knowing consent is deception. She wanted
to build a marriage trap. Don't set yourself up for more of the same latter in life.


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## SunCMars

On this, this abortion matter.

When it is some other persons 'forming' almost-child that is put to death, it seems not to matter, or matters less.

When it is your own it becomes real, a real baby. 

One that was put to death.

A cruel thing this, one that is never given true consequence.

It is a convenience thing, not infanticide.

A women's right. A baby's death.

The two sides will never square.

And should not.


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## KM87

Does she have a history of deception with you? Without any information on that subject, this comes across as really out-of-character. I would wonder what changed to cause this change in her. 

For me personally, my SO having an abortion of my child without discussion or my knowledge would absolutely be a deal-breaker. However for me, it would demonstrate a fundamental character/value discrepancy that I'd be thankful to be aware of before going through with the marriage. 

Something seems very wrong here. I'd say take all of the time you need. 12 years is a long time, but it's not as long as "forever".


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## Andy1001

Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
Are you sure that she was having your baby?


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## Mr.Married

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A point to be well considered given the circumstance !!!!!


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## Diana7

Wow, major red flags here. She deliberately got pregnant and then killed the baby? I think she has some serious character flaws and issues here, how can you ever trust her again?


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## Robbie1234

Mr.Married said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> A point to be well considered given the circumstance !!!!!


I was wondering the same thing,do you have any way of finding out if she was cheating. Try and remember what you were doing around the time she got pregnant. This has happened before where a woman cheats and then panic's and has unprotected sex with her boyfriend or husband. I do not mean this in a racist way but if she had cheated it may have been obvious once the baby was born.


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## aine

To trick you into having a kid is bad enough, then aborting the kid without sharing what should be done is not good. 
Was your first reaction so bad that she was scared of you? She is making terrible choices for sure but we are basing it on what you have told us. Have there been discussions about marriage or lack of marriage, etc. Did she do this to force your hand or something? It all smells totally off, and if you are blameless in this sorry saga, then run for the hills.
If however, you are not blameless in this saga, do tell us more, we are listening.


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## Laurentium

Robbie1234 said:


> I was wondering the same thing,do you have any way of finding out if she was cheating. Try and remember what you were doing around the time she got pregnant. This has happened before where a woman cheats and then panic's and has unprotected sex with her boyfriend or husband.


Unfortunately this does happen. It would explain her unexplainable wish for unprotected sex. 

In the last resort she has the right to have an abortion, in my opinion, but not to discuss this with you is a very red flag. Maybe if she's never had any other serious relationship, she is wanting to explore the field a bit.


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## frusdil

On the surface, this sounds like an absolutely horrendous betrayal of trust on her part. If what happened, happened exactly as you say, I don't hold much hope for your future with this woman.

Is there more to this?


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## Andy1001

@Loyaltyaboveallelse can you be a bit more specific with your timeline. How soon after the unprotected sex did she say she was pregnant. 
And how soon after that did she get the abortion. 
Could she have cheated and thought she was pregnant only to find out it was a false alarm and then concoct the abortion story. 
Either way do not get married.


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## hinterdir

I think it is wise to separate yourself from this situation so you can think more clearly and re-evaluate what your long term move will be and if you think she'll be a good mate for the next 30-50 years. 

Making such huge, life altering decisions that directly affect you and not even telling you or talking to you and keeping it all to herself while she makes the decisions is really bad. 

Your views on abortion will probably play into this a lot. If you view it this as "this was just some mass of cells you didn't even want" you might not resent it as much.

If you view this as "this was your little son or daughter and she killed them without even talking to you about first" than there is probably a good chance you'll always have a deep resent for her and there is a good chance you'll never be right with her again and you may want to think about ending this.


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## BigToe

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?


I'll go one step further, are you sure she was ever pregnant? You say you were saving money for marriage, is it at all possible that she made up a fake pregnancy to push you into marriage quicker, and then faked abortion when you reacted the way you did to "cure" the issue?


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## Bananapeel

Run as far and fast from her as you can! No sane person would want to be legally and financially tied to a person like that.


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## BarbedFenceRider

Either way, communication between 2 individuals for the span of 12 years is seriously limited....

You are telling us that all of a sudden, GF just starts getting wishy washy with the birth control? And have you guys ever discussed abortion prior? 12 years is A LOT of time to be not discussing your personal beliefs and morality....

That being said, I do feel there is a different side to this story. And that resides with your GF. It may be wise to get some outside help and discuss what the motivation behind her actions are and if they are truly valid....

I would hope that she isn't a cheat...But WE ALL know that means little these days. But to actually think that she could hang the horns on you and then deceive you into daddyville? That is a BIG step for one to take from a "normal" long term relationship...She would obviously think that she would have the means to do so....

Or has she ever been pushy concerning the relationship goals and future Mr. and Mrs. treatment? Could she really be so conniving..


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## FieryHairedLady

She killed your baby? Get rid of her.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Andy1001 said:


> @Loyaltyaboveallelse can you be a bit more specific with your timeline. How soon after the unprotected sex did she say she was pregnant.
> And how soon after that did she get the abortion.
> Could she have cheated and thought she was pregnant only to find out it was a false alarm and then concoct the abortion story.
> Either way do not get married.


About three months after give or take around late July she said she was pregnant, but She didn't drop the abortion bombshell on me until last week. We normally have had amazing communication at least I thought we had. She has never been deceptive or lied to me like this before. And she has been pushier of late about getting married even wanting to forgo the big wedding and just elope. I hadn't put much thought into it honestly because after 12 years whats a little longer of a wait honestly?


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## Tron

Just to summarize: she gets pregnant, you start to get excited about it, she gets cold feet and aborts without discussing it with you.

What changes if and when you are married? 

There is something seriously wrong with your fiance, not the least of which are horrendous decision making and complete lack of respect for you and the relationship.


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## Diana7

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> About three months after give or take around late July she said she was pregnant, but She didn't drop the abortion bombshell on me until last week. We normally have had amazing communication at least I thought we had. She has never been deceptive or lied to me like this before. And she has been pushier of late about getting married even wanting to forgo the big wedding and just elope. I hadn't put much thought into it honestly because after 12 years whats a little longer of a wait honestly?


It very odd that she didn't realise she was pregnant for 3 months. You can get tested so soon now.


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## BluesPower

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?


No, this is not a maybe at all. She got pregnant by another man and wanted you think it was yours. 

You would be a complete fool to stay with her another minute...


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## MJJEAN

You aren't "beating the odds". You're staying in a relationship with someone who is, at best, irresponsible. At worst, she's manipulative and a liar who cannot be trusted. Honestly, I'm going to guess "at worst". She's a manipulative liar who cannot be trusted and you're so naive you believe her.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Well Thank you all, I don't foresee myself as naive just maybe too loyal and too in love. It is hard to move away from something in which you have dumped 12 years of your life with. I honestly don't know what I will be doing given me a lot of think about honestly, I don't want to accuse her of cheating if she isn't and frankly I have no proof of that. She and her family want me to try and fix it as well as my family but a couple friends that I am extremely close with want me to run very far away from this entire situation. My trust is very much broken I just like I said it is hard to move on from the only person you have ever loved.


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## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Well Thank you all, I don't foresee myself as naive just maybe too loyal and too in love. It is hard to move away from something in which you have dumped 12 years of your life with. I honestly don't know what I will be doing given me a lot of think about honestly, I don't want to accuse her of cheating if she isn't and frankly I have no proof of that. She and her family want me to try and fix it as well as my family but a couple friends that I am extremely close with want me to run very far away from this entire situation. My trust is very much broken I just like I said it is hard to move on from the only person you have ever loved.


Of course her family wants you to work it out. They want you to take her off of their hand, so to speak. 

Dude, if you need to investigate read the standard evidence post here to find out what she deleted off of her phone and get a look at her computer. 

MOST WOMEN do not abort a baby the BELONGS to the man that they plan to marry. It is not impossible but highly unlikely. 

She was pregnant by someone else, not you. 

Further, even if is was you, she killed your first child. Who does that? 

No dude, you need to run and never look back...


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## *Deidre*

Run Forrest, Run!

That's the best advice I have.


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## Spicy

Personally, I couldn't stay with someone who chose to kill our child.


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## GusPolinski

I’d have dumped her as well.

Whether she aborted your child or someone else’s (and, FWIW, that sounds pretty likely), she’s doesn’t sound like marriage material.


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## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> ... I don't foresee myself as naive just maybe too loyal and too in love. It is hard to move away from something in which you have dumped 12 years of your life with.


I think it would behoove you to reflect on your stance regarding loyalty and love. And with 12 years invested, I cannot fathom your gf's mindset with getting pregnant and then aborting a child without your knowledge. I mean, don't you find it rather strange that she didn't lean on you for support in deciding to have an abortion? C'mon, this situation at best is betrayal on a very fundamental level. Lots of deception going on here.

Okay, so you've been together for 12 years. From what you are posting, longevity in a relationship and shared history doesn't mean squat to this woman you proclaim to love.


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## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Well Thank you all, I don't foresee myself as naive just maybe too loyal and too in love. It is hard to move away from something in which you have dumped 12 years of your life with. I honestly don't know what I will be doing given me a lot of think about honestly, I don't want to accuse her of cheating if she isn't and frankly I have no proof of that. She and her family want me to try and fix it as well as my family but a couple friends that I am extremely close with want me to run very far away from this entire situation. My trust is very much broken I just like I said it is hard to move on from the only person you have ever loved.


Look up “Sunk cost fallacy” It will explain why you feel so reluctant to throw away twelve years of a relationship despite all the red flags.
By the way why did it take so long to move in together?
Do you honestly think she has been faithful all this time.And have you?
Also remember the statement “Familiarity breeds contempt” because the way she has treated you is contemptible in the extreme.


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## ABHale

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?


This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. 

Let’s not use a condom this time. Because the guy I cheated with and got pregnant by didn’t use one either. 

Sounds like a setup to hide the fact that she cheated.


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## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> About three months after give or take around late July she said she was pregnant, but She didn't drop the abortion bombshell on me until last week. We normally have had amazing communication at least I thought we had. She has never been deceptive or lied to me like this before. And she has been pushier of late about getting married even wanting to forgo the big wedding and just elope. I hadn't put much thought into it honestly because after 12 years whats a little longer of a wait honestly?


I agree with your close friends about ending things. 

I am also willing to bet that they know more about the situation then you. 

Going by everything you have said the way she has been acting along with what she has done. I really believe she has cheated and is trying to tie the knot before you find out. 

Truthfully, would you have ever known about the pregnancy or the abortion if she didn’t tell you?

Then what else has she been hiding from you. 

Another note. She knew you were ok with the pregnancy before the abortion? By the time line there is more then a month between the two talks.


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## GusPolinski

Prodigal said:


> I think it would behoove you to reflect on your stance regarding loyalty and love. And with 12 years invested, I cannot fathom your gf's mindset with getting pregnant and then aborting a child without your knowledge. I mean, don't you find it rather strange that she didn't lean on you for support in deciding to have an abortion? C'mon, this situation at best is betrayal on a very fundamental level. Lots of deception going on here.
> 
> Okay, so you've been together for 12 years. From what you are posting, longevity in a relationship and shared history doesn't mean squat to this woman you proclaim to love.


Worst case she aborted his kid.

Best case she aborted _someone else’s_ kid.

The more I think about how it all unfolded, the more I suspect the latter scenario.


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## ABHale

Did she had a big todo with her gf’s around the time she could have gotten pregnant?

Did her request for you not to use a condom come after she had a weekend or getaway with her friends?


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## sokillme

There has to be more to the story then you know. Bet the kids wasn't yours.


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## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I just like I said it is hard to move on from the only person you have ever loved.


Translation: I don't know there is better out there because this is my only experience. If you can't do better then this then what is the point of trying. At best she unilaterally terminated you baby without even talking to you first. She sucks. I bet there is a whole bunch of other things you have no idea you could be doing better with someone else too. 

Over and over, people who only have had experience with one person post on here thinking that all the crap they put up with is normal, only to get some more experience and realize how much they settled.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Her sancho is a lucky man that abortion is legal. To some women, abortion is simply a form of birth control. Probably best to walk away from these types of women altogether.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Andy1001 said:


> Look up “Sunk cost fallacy” It will explain why you feel so reluctant to throw away twelve years of a relationship despite all the red flags.
> By the way why did it take so long to move in together?
> Do you honestly think she has been faithful all this time.*And have you?*
> Also remember the statement “Familiarity breeds contempt” because the way she has treated you is contemptible in the extreme.


Yes of Course I have. This is literally the girl I lost my virginity to I haven't ever thought of cheating on her let alone actually doing so.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

sokillme said:


> Translation: I don't know there is better out there because this is my only experience. If you can't do better then this then what is the point of trying. At best she unilaterally terminated you baby without even talking to you first. She sucks. I bet there is a whole bunch of other things you have no idea you could be doing better with someone else too.
> 
> Over and over, people who only have had experience with one person post on here thinking that all the crap they put up with is normal, only to get some more experience and realize how much they settled.


You are right I probably don't know there is anything better out there, But I honestly don't know I thought what I have been going through is normal and that this was just another relationship struggle. I haven't worked up the courage to confront her yet and try to actually get some answers because I am honestly scared of what else she might tell me and admit to.


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## Tron

Don't let fear drive this bus for you! 

This is your life we are f'ing talking about.

Hitching your wagon to her sounds to me like pure disaster for you. You need to get to the bottom of this. Pronto.


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## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> But I honestly don't know I thought what I have been going through is normal and that this was just another relationship struggle.


You've heard the old story about the frog dying in the boiling pot of water, haven't you? This is a good example of that.

Yes, people have very real challenges and struggles in their relationships. Deception, cheating, lying, and gaslighting are generally deal killers. At least that's what I've observed in my rather long life.

She lied to you big time. This isn't a confession of, "Yeah, honey, I wrecked the car but made it appear I wasn't at fault." This is a woman who LIED about using BC, then aborted a child. Me? The more I'm reading here, the more I'm joining the she-cheated-on-you camp.

I think you've been had. Seriously.


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## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> You are right I probably don't know there is anything better out there, But I honestly don't know I thought what I have been going through is normal and that this was just another relationship struggle. I haven't worked up the courage to confront her yet and try to actually get some answers because I am honestly scared of what else she might tell me and admit to.


The fact that you think of THIS as normal shows you don't have a good perspective because you don't have a good frame of reference. I can't tell you the number of people who come on here who have put up with years of crap from terrible partners who happened to be their one and only. It's not until they get some more experience that they start to see that it was NOT normal. 

It has really turned me off to the whole high school sweetheart / young love thing. Something I had wished I had when I WAS young. I just think those types of relationships have a better chance of failing. There are studies that show getting married later in life gives you a better chance you have to have a healthy one too. I think that is because you need to develop as a mature independent person. I think this is also another thing I have noticed many times, lots of folks who kind of grow up with their partner, become overly dependent on them. They can't imagine that they could have a good life without them. That makes them put up with way too much abuse because of fear of the unknown. Allowing yourself to be mistreated is actually doing yourself, your marriage, and even your spouse a great disservice. A marriage is only as strong as it's boundaries, at least in my mind. Allowing someone to act like a ******* unchecked makes you a bad spouse, and a bad partner. Because in the end of the day they are acting like an ******* and you don't love them enough to call them on that. No one likes and *******.

At least if you establish yourself as independent you can feel confident in the fact that if someone is treating you like crap (for instance aborting your child without telling you, probably cheating) you will be OK to just move on. Then you can love from a position of strength which makes you a more attractive and better partner. You can do this because you know you can be happy alone. 

Finally the young thing brings a lot of baggage into it because at the early part of the relationship both people are still learning how to be adults so they do all manor of crap to each other in the process. Most people do some of this but usually it breaks these young relationships up and you don't have to try to life with all the baggage. You just learn and do better next time. Lots of times these long term young relationships have long lasting damage where both people did really crappy things was still only a teen, sometimes like 15 years old. In a normal situation you can think of this as recklessness of youth, but when it's a long term relationship it just seems like a lifetime of baggage. But again you are still talking about actions that were taken by someone who could barely drive and 3 years earlier were playing with dolls. The problem is the hurt isn't any less. It's just too hard. 

I think it's rare where a HS sweetheart / young love is a healthy relationship. 

Anyway maybe it's time you test the waters.


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## GusPolinski

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> You are right I probably don't know there is anything better out there, But I honestly don't know I thought what I have been going through is normal and that this was just another relationship struggle. I haven't worked up the courage to confront her yet and try to actually get some answers because I am honestly scared of what else she might tell me and admit to.


There’s no need for a confrontation or additional conversation because you’ve already done what needed to be done — you dumped her.

Now you just need to make sure that she stays dumped.


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## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> You are right I probably don't know there is anything better out there, But I honestly don't know I thought what I have been going through is normal and that this was just another relationship struggle. I haven't worked up the courage to confront her yet and try to actually get some answers because I am honestly scared of what else she might tell me and admit to.


You just said exactly why you should never marry your gf. These person you see as your gf is nothing like the one you started dating all those years ago. She has lied and deceived you in a way you never imagined she could. 

You know there is more to this. 

Why out of the blue did she tell you not to use protection, knowing full well she wasn’t on BC? Perfect strategy if she was wanting a baby with you and you didn’t yet. That wasn’t the case, she aborted the baby. 

The only other explanation is to cover up the fact that she cheated at least once and got pregnant. To have the abortion and a cover for it she has unprotected sex with you. Then announces she is pregnant then had an abortion. 

If you can remember the date that you didn’t use protection do so. Then when you talk with your gf ask straight out at one point how far along she was when the abortion took place. See if the time and date match. 

Honestly I would read The 180 and end these relationship.


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## NobodySpecial

I don't get it. She lied about birth control. She got an abortion without even telling him. What difference does it make if she is cheating? This woman needs to be dumped.


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## michzz

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?





Mr.Married said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> A point to be well considered given the circumstance !!!!!





Diana7 said:


> Wow, major red flags here. She deliberately got pregnant and then killed the baby? I think she has some serious character flaws and issues here, how can you ever trust her again?


AND, not to always go to the crazy shelf, but was she even pregnant at all? Is this verifiably true?

I have experience with a nutjob romantic partner. So maybe make sure of the facts if you can.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

My emotions are telling me that I still very much love her and would still possibly want to marry her but my head is saying just to stay away. I still have to go back and get my stuff out of the place Just waiting for a time when I can go without her being there and when my friends can help me. She wants to talk to me tonight after she gets off work but I haven't really responded about meeting up with her yet because I am unsure what good it would do. Other than her possibly trying to manipulate my feelings against me in some way.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

michzz said:


> AND, not to always go to the crazy shelf, but was she even pregnant at all? Is this verifiably true?
> 
> I have experience with a nutjob romantic partner. So maybe make sure of the facts if you can.



No I don't have any proof if she was other then her word.


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## Nucking Futs

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No I don't have any proof if she was other then her word.


Well, you know she's been lying to you, you just don't know how much of what she's said is true, if any. Ditch the *****.


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## Rubix Cubed

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> She wants to talk to me tonight after she gets off work but I haven't really responded about meeting up with her yet because I am unsure what good it would do. *Other than her possibly trying to manipulate my feelings against me in some way.*


 That's your head telling you that, and it's exactly right.


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## Decorum

She has destroyed your trust, and introduced a killshot of perpetual doubt into your relationship.

You are mourning and in pain right now so you may not realize it.

Time heals some wounds, but in some cases it reveals others.

Looking back you may one day say your biggest mistake was staying with her.

We hear guys saying it here all the time.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I am mourning and getting depressed because I still love her but I know I can't trust her anymore and I know I am Not going to go back to her but it still hurts a lot. This will take a while to heal.


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## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am mourning and getting depressed because I still love her but I know I can't trust her anymore and I know I am Not going to go back to her but it still hurts a lot. This will take a while to heal.


Yes that's to be expected, it's just hard to be objective when you are going through it.
I'm sorry.

Look up the 5 stages of grief.
(Btw these are not linear, people bounce around these as needed.)

"The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost. They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling. But they are not stops on some linear timeline in grief."

https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/


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## Lostinthought61

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am mourning and getting depressed because I still love her but I know I can't trust her anymore and I know I am Not going to go back to her but it still hurts a lot. This will take a while to heal.


I get you still love her, absolutely you love her, but just for a second, ask yourself how much does she love you? what kind of person tells you that she is pregnant, supposedly a miracle child, then tells you only after they got an abortion without even a discussion on the matter....at worse it was not your child and best her actions demonstrates a flawed character in someone who is willing to make an important decision without your input. either way i question her motives.


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## Blondilocks

I suggest you demand evidence of the abortion. She should have something from the clinic or doctor to show you and that you can verify. You don't want to be mourning the loss of your future wife and child if you don't have to. Either way, you will have something that will help you in your decision and grieving. Her family may have info.

If she was or she wasn't, it's still a terrible act to perpetrate on you.


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## Kamstel

I am so sorry for you.

Did you end up meeting with her last night? 

Does she know that you are done and will be moving out?

After having read this thread, I too believe that she may have cheated and discovered she was pregnant. But since you are breaking up, I would suggest you don’t go looking for new pain, just walk away. If you do want to know, I would go with her to where she had the abortion and have her request all information, including how far long she was. I’m sure she had to write that information in some form. Then compare that information to when she started wanting sex without a condom.

Just as a precaution, I would strongly suggest that you do see your doctor and be tested for every STD known!

Once again, I am so sorry!

Good luck and stay strong! You will get through this.


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## oldshirt

You are too naive and inexperienced and living in your own fantasy world to truly grasp how much she is manipulating and chumming you and pulling the wool over your eyes.

What other whackadoodle things has she been doing that you are turning a blind to or looking the other way?

What other things of pure evil has she done that you have given free pass because she has sex with you?

What other crazy and mentally unstable things has she done that you have covered for her and made excuses for?

People don't live a normal, law abiding, god fearing life and then one day go off the rails and do something like this. She has to have a pattern of either evil or mentally unstable or extremely manipulative behavior in the past. 

You have either been too naive or too blinded by insecurity to have accepted it or you have turned a blind eye to it so you don't lose your sex-giver.


----------



## oldshirt

So that being said, let's talk about the topic at hand here.

There are a few possible things going on here- 

- she got knocked up by another dude and was trying to feel you out to see if you would accept and support it as yours.

- then she realized that the child would not look like you and the OM would not have anything to do with it and so she aborted. 

This assuming what she said is at all true. As this is such a wacky story, I have the feeling the real story is even wackier. 

There is a chance this whole thing is a fabrication.

Have you seen any doctor bills, lab reports or correspondence from any insurance companies or clinics???? ( I cut my finger and got stitches at an urgent care clinic a couple months ago. I have gotten no less than over half a dozen bills, reports and insurance letters in the following weeks.

A pregnancy and abortion would generate dozens of documents from various clinics, labs and instance resources.

Have you seen anything clarifying any of this???

Why would she fabricate this???

Simple answer is she has a personality disorder and this was a big league $h!+ test to see how you react. 

Either way, no matter how you slice it, she is a nightmare on two legs.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am mourning and getting depressed because I still love her but I know I can't trust her anymore and I know I am Not going to go back to her but it still hurts a lot. This will take a while to heal.


It’s like mourning the death of a beloved one but the person is still there. She isn’t the same person you fell in love with. 

It will take some time. 

Read The 180. It will show you how to break the emotional bonds. 

Officially end it with her. Be a man and do it face to face. Neutral ground in public. Have a friend close by but not so close he can hear what you say. Simply say I can never trust you again it’s over. Good bye. Then walk away. You don’t need to give her a chance to say anything. End things and leave. The friend can walk up to you once you end it to stop anything further from her. Up to you but when you set up the time to meet let her know you are bringing a friend with you.

Block her on everything. 

Tell your parents that it is over. Simple say “It might not have been my child she aborted and if it was I can’t forgive that”. 

You will need your family’s support through this.

Work out. 

Go out with trusted friends.


----------



## kettle

Sounds like a really sad situation. Certainly take the time you need. I would not be to fast to end your relationship over this though. Perhaps you both try counseling first and take it slowly from there.


----------



## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am mourning and getting depressed because I still love her but I know I can't trust her anymore and I know I am Not going to go back to her but it still hurts a lot. This will take a while to heal.


Well that is understandable, but none of this means you can't have a great life. You are just at the beginning. You may look back and feel lucky you found out who she was before you gave your whole life to her. I don't want to say lucky in general because when someone kills your kid you can never call that lucky. But at least you have the chance to start fresh in the relationship part of your life. 

Anyway love ALONE is a terrible reason to marry someone. It's completely foolish. Love is really only a necessary part of a good relationship but it's BY FAR not the only thing, and despite what Disney and Hollywood tells you it is a terrible reason to give your entire self to someone. You should have a hell of a lot more then that. Let just try honesty for one, how about loyalty, decency. I could write about 100 things. Your gf is lacking.


----------



## Decorum

If you could pick anybody she might have cheated with, or anytime (day) that she may have cheated on, going totally with your gut if necessary.

Who would it be, or when would it have happened?

Be open and honest with yourself.


----------



## lovelygirl

sokillme said:


> Anyway *love ALONE is a terrible reason to marry someone. * It's completely foolish. Love is really only a necessary part of a good relationship but it's BY FAR not the only thing, and despite what Disney and Hollywood tells you it is a terrible reason to give your entire self to someone. You should have a hell of a lot more then that. Let just try* honesty *for one, how about *loyalty*, *decency.* I could write about 100 things. Your gf is lacking.


Very-well said! 

OP, If she did this to you, imagine what she could do more, without you even realising it.

If you say you used to tell anything to each other, I'm afraid that's _your_ idea of this relationship. :|
Probably, you think you had a perfect relationship, when it's seems to be the opposite. 

She has a flaw in character, that's more important than the 12 years you've spent together. 

Can you see yourself spending 60 more years with this person?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Mr.Married said:


> She wanted to build a marriage trap. Don't set yourself up for more of the same latter in life.


They're ENGAGED. There's no need for a so-called 'marriage trap' in their situation.

I'm also voting that this pregnancy was likely not the OP's baby.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yes, I met up with her because I suppose I was just a glutton for punishment. But I went looking for closure and well I got anything but that just more pain she put on an entire act and just made a massive scene in front of the entire restaurant which was less than enjoyable and quite embarrassing. I told her that this was over and yes I still love you I mean how couldn't I after 12 years. I told her that I was planning on coming by this weekend and getting my stuff. Which just set her off again and I just walked out. I mean yes I could see myself with her for another sixty years for the sole purpose that I am still deeply in love with her.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I met up with her because I suppose I was just a glutton for punishment. But I went looking for closure and well I got anything but that just more pain she put on an entire act and just made a massive scene in front of the entire restaurant which was less than enjoyable and quite embarrassing. I told her that this was over and yes I still love you I mean how couldn't I after 12 years. I told her that I was planning on coming by this weekend and getting my stuff. Which just set her off again and I just walked out. I mean yes I could see myself with her for another sixty years for the sole purpose that I am still deeply in love with her.


Well, did you tell her that you though she was screwing around or did you just end it?

The fact that you think you could be with her, is really something that you need to work on bud. 

No disrespect, but when a woman does this to you, you should never want to be with them again, just too many fish in the sea...


----------



## Kamstel

Did you ask if there was another guy?

Good luck


----------



## Mr.Married

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> massive scene in front of the entire restaurant which was less than enjoyable and quite embarrassing..


That's enough right there to understand her. Using an explosion of emotion on you instead of an adult discussion...she wants it swept under the rug and
for you to do nothing more than shut up about it. Stick to your guns.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I met up with her because I suppose I was just a glutton for punishment. But I went looking for closure and well I got anything but that just more pain she put on an entire act and just made a massive scene in front of the entire restaurant which was less than enjoyable and quite embarrassing. I told her that this was over and yes I still love you I mean how couldn't I after 12 years. I told her that I was planning on coming by this weekend and getting my stuff. Which just set her off again and I just walked out. I mean yes I could see myself with her for another sixty years for the sole purpose that I am still deeply in love with her.


Every time you try to discuss this she is going to throw a tantrum,you end up either comforting her or walking out but either way she doesn’t admit anything.This is no way to live.
I asked you earlier, would going away for a couple of weeks be feasible?
You need a break from her,both families and whatever friends are taking sides.


----------



## xMadame

Everyone is going to blast me, but it is her body and her choice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

xMadame said:


> Everyone is going to blast me, but it is her body and her choice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try reading the thread before parroting the usual platitudinous bs.


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## Diana7

xMadame said:


> Everyone is going to blast me, but it is her body and her choice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not if she is engaged to be married its not.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I met up with her because I suppose I was just a glutton for punishment. But I went looking for closure and well I got anything but that just more pain she put on an entire act and just made a massive scene in front of the entire restaurant which was less than enjoyable and quite embarrassing. I told her that this was over and yes I still love you I mean how couldn't I after 12 years. I told her that I was planning on coming by this weekend and getting my stuff. Which just set her off again and I just walked out. I mean yes I could see myself with her for another sixty years for the sole purpose that I am still deeply in love with her.


Well done with a bad situation. 

Restaurant was probably not the best location for this. 

But you did it face to face, well done.


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## ABHale

Completely normal to still be in love with her. 

Read The 180.


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## threelittlestars

Well, I just read all the thread, and I confess, I did not even read your entire first post before I was positive that baby was not yours. I get these feelings about things, and so far I have been right. 

If I am right and she did she will probably be like at least around 60-40% of the cheaters that we read about they deny deny deny, and only when you have proof will they admit but only what you have proof of, nothing more. 

Very few cheaters will admit of their own free will.... It is sad, but largely true. 

I think you are making the right decision because like others have said before me, if it was your baby then you have a bigger issue. Your family will side with the break up in time. They may have grown fond of her, but that will pass... 

As to the 12 years together I hear ya... I met my husband when I was 15, and we were dating practically right away. But we did not have a long engagement. I was 19 when I married him. (Fyi, We got a lot of financial aid and scholarships being married) So the whole excuse you have about not getting married I just dont get. But either way it is a BLESSING that you did not under the circumstances. My husband and I have been married 12 years, together 14 years almost 15. 

We have faced my open heart surgery, his family and drama, Mine. More health issues, three kids, (all a few years into the marriage, we were not rushed) Then kid has health issues, during that time pregnant with the third and an ill child he cheats.... 

Sunk loss fallacy...You really dont have what I have invested in her or this yet. You are young, and don't have anchors hanging you down... You will realize soon that 12 years was a lot to invest on someone who did not deserve it. (Then you will have a lot of resentment) Better to be out of the relationship before that stage. 

My husband and I are still married, and to be honest if I had no children, health issues, and things our family NEEDS then I would have walked a lonnnnng time ago. And FYI i too still love him. LOVE is not enough. There needs to be more glue...

You will be alright. Get into the gym to get the endorphins, set up a solo life asap, and get on with the next stage, trust me....It will be exciting.


----------



## Decorum

You have my respect and admiration Loyaltyaboveallelse.

Integrity, honesty, responsibility, I think you are the real deal.

Good on you!


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

No I didn't tell her I thought she probably cheated on me didn't even bring it up just thinking about it just hurts me in a way I didn't think was possible honestly. But her reaction to me telling her this was over permanently because she broke my trust in a way that shouldn't be broken after 12 years of being together. And that what she didn't make sense or even remotely add up in my mind after honestly thinking it over. She has been blowing up my phone with text messages and her family has been pestering me to boot. Going later today with a few friends and gonna get my stuff started looking for a new place.


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## SGr

As painful as it is, it's much easier to walk away now than to try to untangle yourself from a web of deception when there's so much more at stake.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk


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## threelittlestars

None of her situation makes sense because you don't have the whole story, and the good thing here is YOU don't NEED to know to know that you can't even move on from what you do know. There is no shame in that and I hope you dont let her family or her (hovering) to sway you. 

hang in there....


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No I didn't tell her I thought she probably cheated on me didn't even bring it up just thinking about it just hurts me in a way I didn't think was possible honestly. But her reaction to me telling her this was over permanently because she broke my trust in a way that shouldn't be broken after 12 years of being together. And that what she didn't make sense or even remotely add up in my mind after honestly thinking it over. She has been blowing up my phone with text messages and her family has been pestering me to boot. Going later today with a few friends and gonna get my stuff started looking for a new place.


Well it may hurt, but you should have said, "Look, I know that you cheated and got pregnant. You even went as far as to trick me so you could say it was mine. No, don't say anything, I know what happened. You are out of my life forever." 

That is what you had to say, and look... it is like 99% certain that the child was not yours. She is really a piece of work. Frankly, this is probably not the first time she cheated on you, it is just the first time that she got pregnant. 

I know it hurts, but if you have a half a brain, it really should help you to get over her. 

Do the 180, do not talk to her again, do not ever let her back into your life, you will be so much better off...


----------



## aine

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No I didn't tell her I thought she probably cheated on me didn't even bring it up just thinking about it just hurts me in a way I didn't think was possible honestly. But her reaction to me telling her this was over permanently because she broke my trust in a way that shouldn't be broken after 12 years of being together. And that what she didn't make sense or even remotely add up in my mind after honestly thinking it over. She has been blowing up my phone with text messages and her family has been pestering me to boot. Going later today with a few friends and gonna get my stuff started looking for a new place.


12 years is a long time to not be able to discuss pregnancy and abortion with your SO. It all sounds very fishy. Sorry that you are going through this.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

What I should or shouldn't have said is irrelevant considering she made an incredibly horrible scene and that would have probably created an even worse situation. Went with my two best friends to clear out my **** and naturally she was there with her family. And well she was rather confrontational with me and would not allow me into our own freaking place without reexplaining everything to her. Well it honestly got me to and I blew up at her I have never yelled and screamed at her before but I did today. But I did and I told her I wasn't an idiot and I know she cheated on me and that I know the baby wasn't mine. Well, remember how I said I knew she would go off on me even worse? Well, she did, and then slapped me incredibly hard. And for a moment I thought of punching her in the nose for it but I just walked away rather walked into my place got my stuff and left. My two friends think I did great but everyone else thinks I am just trying to implode a relationship for no reason.


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## Diana7

I find it amazing that she thinks you would be ok with what she did and just carry on as if nothing had happened.


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## GusPolinski

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> What I should or shouldn't have said is irrelevant considering she made an incredibly horrible scene and that would have probably created an even worse situation. Went with my two best friends to clear out my **** and naturally she was there with her family. And well she was rather confrontational with me and would not allow me into our own freaking place without reexplaining everything to her. Well it honestly got me to and I blew up at her I have never yelled and screamed at her before but I did today. But I did and I told her I wasn't an idiot and I know she cheated on me and that I know the baby wasn't mine. Well, remember how I said I knew she would go off on me even worse? Well, she did, and then slapped me incredibly hard. And for a moment I thought of punching her in the nose for it but I just walked away rather walked into my place got my stuff and left. My two friends think I did great but everyone else thinks I am just trying to implode a relationship for no reason.


For no reason?

So let’s say she _didn’t_ cheat — that means she aborted your child... and without even discussing it with you.

That’s MORE than enough reason.


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## Kamstel

Good job


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## Kamstel

Continue to lean on family and friends!! They want you to lean on them

Stay strong


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## sunsetmist

Kamstel said:


> Continue to lean on family and friends!! They want you to lean on them
> 
> Stay strong


T/J @Kamstel Admire UR compassion. UR always checking in, supporting, and encouraging.


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## Kamstel

@sunsetmist. Thanks. It’s just that I’ve been there, so I know how it feels.

And would you believe I got kicked off another, shall we say more pro-“wayward” site for being too one sided? Lol.


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## seadoug105

Kamstel said:


> @sunsetmist. Thanks. It’s just that I’ve been there, so I know how it feels.
> 
> And would you believe I got kicked off another, shall we say more pro-“wayward” site for being too one sided? Lol.



That makes 2 of us!


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## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> What I should or shouldn't have said is irrelevant considering she made an incredibly horrible scene and that would have probably created an even worse situation. Went with my two best friends to clear out my **** and naturally she was there with her family. And well she was rather confrontational with me and would not allow me into our own freaking place without reexplaining everything to her. Well it honestly got me to and I blew up at her I have never yelled and screamed at her before but I did today. But I did and I told her I wasn't an idiot and I know she cheated on me and that I know the baby wasn't mine. Well, remember how I said I knew she would go off on me even worse? Well, she did, and then slapped me incredibly hard. And for a moment I thought of punching her in the nose for it but I just walked away rather walked into my place got my stuff and left. My two friends think I did great but everyone else thinks I am just trying to implode a relationship for no reason.


Her anger is a manifestation of her guilt.

She is guilty for, cheating, lying, abortion, slandering you, etc. 

She assaulted you to shut you down.

She has her version of truth and she is angry that you are not accepting it.

She is in self-defense mode now.

I get that some see abortion as something that differs little from picking your nose, but it is a serious procedure to end the birth process, and should not be entered into lightly.

She was desperate.

Now she is off her nut.

You have witnesses, get a protective order, and have her arrested for assault.

You do not want to face any false allegations, or be baited in later. Get it on record.

Dont let a false sense of chivalry leave your ass hanging out. You now know how she is.

Protect yourself!


----------



## threelittlestars

You did AMAZING. I know you dont feel great right now, but later once the smoke has cleared you are going to hold your head high and puff out your chest a little. Well done, keeping your cool but standing your ground.


----------



## Mr.Married

Job well done ..... keep putting one foot in front of the other. The mixed emotions will calm in time. You just saved yourself and your future. You will look back
in time a realize you took the best coarse of action. 

NOW.....listen carefully ...... eliminate ALL unnecessary contact. It will only keep you in turmoil. Focus on moving forward.

Again .... good job!


----------



## Kamstel

Just remember one thing.
One of two things happened here....

1). She cheated on you and got pregnant by another guy, so therefore had an abortion

2). She got pregnant with your child, but decided to get rid of it without even the courtesy of talking to you first.

Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and say it was number 2. Does she really think that ANY man, let alone someone that has been with her for so long, would be ok with it? If this is what happened, she needs counseling because she doesn’t have a firm grip on the concept of what a loving relationship is about.

Unfortunately, I think option #1 is more plausible. I’m so sorry. And to make it worse, I wonder if they got off on the risk of pregnancy..... it’s sick, but some people do it. 

Do you have any idea who it might be?

Good luck and keep moving forward.
Better days are ahead of you.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> What I should or shouldn't have said is irrelevant considering she made an incredibly horrible scene and that would have probably created an even worse situation. Went with my two best friends to clear out my **** and naturally she was there with her family. And well she was rather confrontational with me and would not allow me into our own freaking place without reexplaining everything to her. Well it honestly got me to and I blew up at her I have never yelled and screamed at her before but I did today. But I did and I told her I wasn't an idiot and I know she cheated on me and that I know the baby wasn't mine. Well, remember how I said I knew she would go off on me even worse? Well, she did, and then slapped me incredibly hard. And for a moment I thought of punching her in the nose for it but I just walked away rather walked into my place got my stuff and left. My two friends think I did great but everyone else thinks I am just trying to implode a relationship for no reason.


You did the right thing. And you should not give a rats ASS about what "Everyone Else" thinks. 

She is freaking out because you are not stupid enough to believe her. That is why she is acting so irrational. 

If she told her parents, which she probable did not, then they are actually helping her put one over on you. If they do not know, then they are just trying to pawn her off on you. Who knows. 

But all of the hysterics are just that a game. DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE DRAWN IN THE DRAMA. 

Think of it like this... you guys wanted to get married, women that are pregnant by their fiancé, do not abort the baby. I am not saying that it is impossible. I am just saying that it almost never happens. 

And the biggest thing is that she did this without talking to you about this. It is unforgivable. 

Just move on and leave her in your dust...


----------



## Thor

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> My trust is very much broken I just like I said it is hard to move on from the only person you have ever loved.


Yes, it is hard. Many of us here were married for decades before getting divorced. You don't have to hate someone to break up with them, you just have to know you can't be happy if you stay with them. You've done the right thing leaving the relationship.

The old saying is true, that time does heal the wounds. There are plenty of other fish in the sea. No doubt you will be happy again and you will meet new people you enjoy having a relationship with. You will find a good woman to marry. Today it is difficult to picture those things in your mind because you have a process you must go through with grieving the loss of this relationship. Just trust that things will get better before long.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I don't have any idea who it was or could have been in all honesty. It isn't just her parents it is my parents and my sisters feel like I am throwing it all away. I told them what happened but they don't see any proof of cheating just an extreme betrayal of trust. Which I then asked why that isn't enough and they couldn't really give me an answer other than to say why to throw away a twelve-year relationship. I am not gonna go back to her and I have told her to stop talking to me but I don't feel like throwing her in jail for slapping me and I don't think it is to the point of needing an order of protection from her either.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am not gonna go back to her and I have told her to stop talking to me but I don't feel like throwing her in jail for slapping me and I don't think it is to the point of needing an order of protection from her either.


You know the situation up close, we post from a distance.

I wanted to put the protection order, and assault, as well as the potential of allegations on the table for you to consider.

In case you felt it was warranted.

You have been using very good judgment up to this point.

No offense intended.

I will add this. We someimes suggest people carry a Voice Activated Recorder, a "VAR", in case she shows up unexpectedly at work or something. I realize in the modern era people can use phones for this as well.

Again you may feel that is not necessarily at this time.

I am sorry, I am sure this is so hard for you.


----------



## sokillme

xMadame said:


> Everyone is going to blast me, but it is her body and her choice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am sorry to derail but it has to be said. This post really shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what is happening here. She already made her choice and no one stopped her (which is the point of that slogan). I don't know where anyone gets the idea that the point of that saying is that the one making the choice should be free from the consequences such choice. The point is just that they should get to make the choice. Which she did and why it really has not relevance to the discussion. 

What we are dealing with here is the aftermath of her choice and in the same vain now it's his turn. His life his choice. He has chosen to dump her for making such an incredibly selfish choice.


----------



## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't have any idea who it was or could have been in all honesty. It isn't just her parents it is my parents and my sisters feel like I am throwing it all away. I told them what happened but they don't see any proof of cheating just an extreme betrayal of trust. Which I then asked why that isn't enough and they couldn't really give me an answer other than to say why to throw away a twelve-year relationship. I am not gonna go back to her and I have told her to stop talking to me but I don't feel like throwing her in jail for slapping me and I don't think it is to the point of needing an order of protection from her either.


For now carrying a voice activated recorder is probably a good idea. Just to be safe. I know it sucks but do it because even though it doesn't feel like it now you are going to heal from this and get better. You need to protect yourself for your future. 

As far as your family goes, I know it sucks but understand that many people are just cowards and would rather suffer then deal with change. Even more so when they are not the ones who will suffer the most. Yes it's a kind of betrayal and at the moment just adds salt to the wounds, but it is what it is. Unfortunately it's at moments like this you see who really has your back. I personally would be saying as much but not in an emotional way.

Maybe I would back off and not talk to them for a while but if they ask I would say "At the worst moment of my life when I needed my family to support me you have all completely let me down." Just understand that some folks may even double down or get defensive when they hear that. It's a hard lesson on top of the one you just had. But again this is life, this is going to show you a lot about who really has your back. It's not even personal it just shows the depth they have, or lack of it. Remember that when the time comes were they need yours.

Finally whatever anyone tells you even if we assign her the very best of intentions, a person you have dated for over 10 years, who aborts your child without even telling you or talking to you about it is NOT a person you should marry under any circumstances. Something is very wrong and you need to move on.

You will get better and find happiness.


----------



## michzz

Good job!

And sorry about the drama in your life. I know it is painful.

BTW, do not let her at this point try to spin it as a rape scenario. If that was something that happened, then she had way too many chances to let you know of it.

BTW II, get checked for every STD that you can get tested for. I believe you need to know your health status.

Never communicate with her again.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't have any idea who it was or could have been in all honesty. It isn't just her parents it is my parents and my sisters feel like I am throwing it all away. I told them what happened but they don't see any proof of cheating just an extreme betrayal of trust. Which I then asked why that isn't enough and they couldn't really give me an answer other than to say why to throw away a twelve-year relationship. I am not gonna go back to her and I have told her to stop talking to me but I don't feel like throwing her in jail for slapping me and I don't think it is to the point of needing an order of protection from her either.


I can't see putting the hand cuffs on her for slapping you in a heated moment either, but....if the abuse escalates, if the lying escalates, she could try to act like YOU are the abusive one. Any number of things could happen.

Better to get it documented. Better to get proof she is the abusive one in the relationship.


----------



## Jasel

Have followed this thread and never really saw the need to comment but just wanted to say I think you're making the right decision. As soon as I read your story and saw a familiar pattern: out of the blue pregnancy, behind the back abortion, suddenly pushing marriage, etc I figured she got knocked up by somebody else.

I wouldn't even pay attention to what other people in your life are saying. I know it's hard but at the end of the day she made her choice, which no one is attacking her over (nor am I saying they should), and you're making yours. It's your life and your relationship. They're not in your shoes and are projecting what THEY want you to do onto you. It's selfishness on their part and you're better off ignoring it until it goes away.

And once your belongings are removed from your girl's place and your living away from her I suggest going no contact with her and her family. You've handled this pretty well considering the length of your relationship. I know it's not easy after 12 years.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Thanks all,

No real update other then it pretty much hit me the past few days and I have gotten badly depressed and I know I shouldn't really but I can't stop feeling so sad.


----------



## Kamstel

This is to be expected. All part of th me grieving process!!


----------



## Cynthia

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Thanks all,
> 
> No real update other then it pretty much hit me the past few days and I have gotten badly depressed and I know I shouldn't really but I can't stop feeling so sad.


It would be a little weird if you didn't feel sad over the breakup of a long-term relationship with a woman you love. Just don't get bitter. Maybe seek some counseling to help you through this difficult time of grief. Read up on grief as well.


----------



## Decorum

All true!

Be good to yourself, follow the path you have chosen, it leads somewhere.

Not there yet.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Just using up my sick days I have accumulated and taken the week off from work. Just don't have much will to be around other people right now, Getting blackout drunk last night probably didn't help either but I don't really know how to deal with this pain. It feels like a part of my soul and heart got ripped out of me.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Just using up my sick days I have accumulated and taken the week off from work. Just don't have much will to be around other people right now, Getting blackout drunk last night probably didn't help either but I don't really know how to deal with this pain. It feels like a part of my soul and heart got ripped out of me.


Do whatever you need to help you cope.
Drink is a depressant though. 
One piece of advice,if you are going on a bender leave your phone at home. You wouldn’t be the first man to drunkenly try and make up with a toxic ex.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Repost


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Andy1001 said:


> Do whatever you need to help you cope.
> Drink is a depressant though.
> One piece of advice,if you are going on a bender leave your phone at home. You wouldn’t be the first man to drunkenly try and make up with a toxic ex.


I know which is why I regret it already not to mention I feel worse today. I did drunkenly text her but thankfully nothing I can't take back.


----------



## Kamstel

Oh no, what did you text her?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

That I still was deeply in love with her and that I was sorry. So yeah now she is blowing up my phone even more even after I told her that I was wasted and I didn't mean any of it and well she doesn't believe me.


----------



## Kamstel

Damage Control Mode:

I suggest you text her something along the following:

I am very sorry that I texted you last night when I was extremely drunk. While drunk, I texted you things like “I love you”, “I’m sorry”, etc.

Understand that this has been extremely difficult for me. I can not just throw my feelings and memories of the last 12 years into the garbage or pretend like the last 12 years didn’t happen. It will take me a long time to get over you, to get over us.

But I will. I will because at the end of the day, you did one of two things that destroyed us and made any future we could have had impossible. You either
A) had an affair with another man and got pregnant 
Or 
B) you had an abortion killing my child without the courtesy of talking to me about it first

So which of these two is it? 
You and I both know that “we” can never recover from what you did, whether it was option A or B

I ask that you please block my phone number and all text messages from me, as I will do to you in 3 hours from now. 

Since this may be our last communication, I will end it by saying that I hope you find happiness in life.

Good bye


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> That I still was deeply in love with her and that I was sorry. So yeah now she is blowing up my phone even more even after I told her that I was wasted and I didn't mean any of it and well she doesn't believe me.


This is a GREAT reason to google local counselors in your area. Seriously, you need to get into counseling to process the grief you have over the sudden end of a long-term relationship.

You have to realize that you are complicit in her blowing up your phone. Now if you are truly done, THEN BE DONE.

Realize you CAN block her number. The only reason all this dramatic crap is happening now is because you are allowing it.

Take back your power and own what is yours to own. You gave her a tiny opening to get back in and she's using it. The thing is, I hope you realize this woman sounds unhinged.

If you really want her out of your life, block her phone #'s, block her on social media, block her email address. Whatever - just be done.


----------



## MattMatt

Years ago in order to hurry a fiancee along a woman would pretend BC had failed so the marriage date would be hurried along.

After the marriage there would be a "miscarriage" so all would be well. From her perspective.

However if the wouldbe husband failed to take the hint then the miscarriage option or the I had an abortion option could be brought into play.

Have you SEEN the abortion paperwork?

If there is NO paperwork there was no abortion. And probably no pregnancy, either.

But could you stay with someone who is capable of such duplicity?


----------



## Robbie1234

Andy1001 said:


> Do whatever you need to help you cope.
> Drink is a depressant though.
> One piece of advice,if you are going on a bender leave your phone at home. You wouldn’t be the first man to drunkenly try and make up with a toxic ex.


Good call @Andy1001 but too late.


----------



## Jasel

You need to lay off the alcohol if it's making you do things like that.


----------



## TJW

Prodigal said:


> You gave her a tiny opening to get back in and she's using it. The thing is, I hope you realize this woman sounds unhinged.


"Unhinged" is more kind and more of a euphemism than I would use to describe her. 

Please.....please....whatever you do, do not get back together with this person. You will regret it for decades to come. Being together with a person who gives herself permission to make unilateral decisions regarding A CHILD will be one of the most toxic experiences you can ever undertake. You will be "stuck" with no way out if you give in to her.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Sorry I haven't been around in a bit to update Friends got me far too drunk over labor day and I woke up with a chick I have never met before. I couldn't have possibly felt anymore depressed and wrong about it then I did, Not to mention my ex-showed up to the hotel we were at and saw it all. I don't know how she found out rather I didn't until I looked at my phone and I had been drunk texting her a lot. Not really the way I wanted things to go down as I created my own drama filled weekend. I have now blocked her number and blocked her off of my social media accounts.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Stop drinking.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't been around in a bit to update Friends got me far too drunk over labor day and I woke up with a chick I have never met before. I couldn't have possibly felt anymore depressed and wrong about it then I did, Not to mention my ex-showed up to the hotel we were at and saw it all. I don't know how she found out rather I didn't until I looked at my phone and I had been drunk texting her a lot. Not really the way I wanted things to go down as I created my own drama filled weekend. I have now blocked her number and blocked her off of my social media accounts.


Too ****ing late!
I told you already not to bring your phone with you when you were going drinking but you didn’t listen.Your ex can now show everyone including your parents and family the loving messages you sent her,and in the next breath say how you were the one who was cheating all along.
You have screwed up here royally and lost the high ground.It now looks like you dumped her purely to get off with another woman.
FFS dude!
Edit: Quit drinking,you can’t control it,and blaming someone else for you getting drunk is self delusional.


----------



## sunsetmist

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't been around in a bit to update Friends got me far too drunk over labor day and I woke up with a chick I have never met before. I couldn't have possibly felt anymore depressed and wrong about it then I did, Not to mention my ex-showed up to the hotel we were at and saw it all. I don't know how she found out rather I didn't until I looked at my phone and I had been drunk texting her a lot. Not really the way I wanted things to go down as I created my own drama filled weekend. I have now blocked her number and blocked her off of my social media accounts.


With 'friends' like this, who needs enemies? Thinking you may need to check for STDs. Your actions are immature for your age unless you plan to use alcohol to cope throughout life. 

Seems to me you have a tendency to roll with the wind. Mistakes you make under the influence can have lifetime repercussions. Where is your self-control?


----------



## Cynthia

Your friends aren't helping your deal with this or cope. They are enabling bad choices that you have been making. Time to stop drinking, get some therapy, and start working on healthier ways to get through this difficult time. 

BLOCK HER AND REMOVE HER FROM YOUR CONTACTS.


----------



## Prodigal

I'm honestly beginning to wonder if anyone who posts on TAM actually takes any of the advice to heart.

Bud, you are showing signs of a drinking problem. At the very least, you are DEFINITELY showing signs of not knowing how to cope with the breakup.

So you've had at least two incidents we know of where you have gotten drunk and blown up her phone. 

Considering you were through with the drama she was provoking in your life, it sounds like you are still waaayyyyyyy too involved in this drama-fest. And you need to bear 50% of the responsibility for that.

Seriously.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I bear all the responsibility for it honestly, I brought it upon myself and I understand that and I am willing to take the crap that comes my way for this. And I did take the advice to heart but I also went to the beach with my friends for a few days thinking getting away would help and it didn't I just made them worse. And you are also correct I don't know how to cope with this kind of pain/breakup as it has been the only one and it hurts far worse then I could have imagined it would.


----------



## Kamstel

Don’t bash your friends about the girl. They didn’t stop you with the girl because saw you having fun with a woman and thought it might help you get over your ex

You CAN and SHOULD bash your friends for not confiscating your phone at the start of the weekend.



Being caught with this woman might actually be a blessing in disguise. Your ex is going to be more scarce after seeing what she saw, and what you need most is distance from her.


But I do hope that you have come to the realization that you may need to talk to counselor. There is no shame or embarrassment in doing so! And besides, no one will know unless you decide to tell them! 

Please talk to a therapist.

Good luck, stay strong, and stop texting!!!!


----------



## ABHale

sunsetmist said:


> With 'friends' like this, who needs enemies? Thinking you may need to check for STDs. Your actions are immature for your age unless you plan to use alcohol to cope throughout life.
> 
> Seems to me you have a tendency to roll with the wind. Mistakes you make under the influence can have lifetime repercussions. Where is your self-control?


As I agree that his friends need restraint I also think OP is doing the best he can under the circumstances. 

Anyone going through what he is will not think straight.


----------



## sunsetmist

ABHale said:


> As I agree that his friends need restraint I also think OP is doing the best he can under the circumstances.
> 
> Anyone going through what he is will not think straight.


Don't mean to be harsh. Just wish he had better support, i guess. I've seen too many seriously damage their lives while drinking.


----------



## Taxman

Do yourself a favor. Stay away from your friends at this time. They may mean well, but right now you really do not know your ass from your elbow. This was a betrayal, but your actions over the last little while have caused escalation of her actions, let alone that your buddies may have set you up with a chickie while you were plastered, and made it all too apparent to your fiance. Wrong and bad errors.

What I would do? or rather, if either of you were my kids (I am 64, and have children your age) I would say to both of you; back the f' up right now and just stop. Let the situation cool down. I want one or both of you to go away, and not talk to one another, or your families for at least one-two weeks. A cooling off period is what is called for, as NOBODY is thinking clearly or rationally at this moment. I could not even begin to hypothesize that she was unfaithful, and therefore had an abortion to cover herself. Sorry, it could fit the circumstances, but I have my doubts. Me? I think that she was really scared that having the child now would cause you to resent that child. That thought, coupled with hormone hysteria that comes with a pregnancy, often causes illogical reactions. (I had a business partner, whose wife aborted their third last child as her hormones overtook her and took her to a dark place where having the child threatened her family-she has been in psychiatric care for the last fifteen years as a consequence)

I want you both to cool off. Then, and only then, to undergo some counselling; you without your friends, and her without her family. I say this to a lot of clients before I refer them to others in my network; you two as a couple are an island unto yourselves, outward influences should just remain as influences, and be recognized as such. They may advise, but they do not make up the constitution and laws of that little island. Please, get clarity before moving forward.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe your fiancée is a lot more deceptive than you think.
> Are you sure that she was having your baby?


I am never the one to quickly go down this path but this situation is too odd. I mean 12 year relationship, lies about BC she asks from unprotected sex, then gets an abortion with no discussion. SHe could have found out she was pregnant by someone else and hatched this plan. This is all way too fishy for me. Getting an abortion without any discussion would no doubt be a deal breaker for me. I consider this far far worse than cheating even.


----------



## Nucking Futs

happyhusband0005 said:


> I am never the one to quickly go down this path but this situation is too odd. I mean 12 year relationship, lies about BC she asks from unprotected sex, then gets an abortion with no discussion. SHe could have found out she was pregnant by someone else and hatched this plan. This is all way too fishy for me. Getting an abortion without any discussion would no doubt be a deal breaker for me. I consider this far far worse than cheating even.


I agree, one of two things happened here and either would be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I bear all the responsibility for it honestly, I brought it upon myself and I understand that and I am willing to take the crap that comes my way for this. And I did take the advice to heart but I also went to the beach with my friends for a few days thinking getting away would help and it didn't I just made them worse. And you are also correct I don't know how to cope with this kind of pain/breakup as it has been the only one and it hurts far worse then I could have imagined it would.


I don't know you at all but from everything you have posted, you sound like a good dude. Don't be too hard on yourself, you're going through a **** storm so the drinking and everything else should be forgiven. Your friends know you are badly depressed and they are trying to help you recover. If anyone starts trying to turn things into this being your fault just stick with what she has claimed, she lied about BC and then got an abortion without talking to you first. The second she did that the relationship was dead and you were never going to forgive, who in the right mind would. 

But I do agree with people that you might consider counseling to deal with a number of things here. Obviously getting over a 12 year relationship and lost love. But also dealing with this level of betrayal. Certain things in life will likely trigger some very harsh feelings and even depression even years down the road. For example when you have kids, and experience the love that only a parent can have for a child the thought of what she did might become seriously depressing even years later. Best to deal with this stuff while its fresh and learn healthy ways to deal with the sadness and anger.


----------



## ABHale

sunsetmist said:


> Don't mean to be harsh. Just wish he had better support, i guess. I've seen too many seriously damage their lives while drinking.


Me too


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> … I also went to the beach with my friends for a few days thinking getting away would help and it didn't I just made them worse. And you are also correct I don't know how to cope with this kind of pain/breakup as it has been the only one and it hurts far worse then I could have imagined it would.


You are trying to get over the loss of a long-term relationship doing it your way. It's not working. Why? BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS YOU NEED TO PROCESS THE GRIEF.

Processing your feelings and talking things out with a good counselor is going to help with the healing process.

Again, *COUNSELING, COUNSELING, COUNSELING.*


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I don't think this relationship could possibly be repaired I mean she wants to apparently still. I still love her and I am upset that my friends got me that wasted and got me laid with a strange lady that I haven't ever met. But again that is on me and not them I made those choices even if I was wasted it felt good but I feel like **** about it now. I do want to apologize to her for what happened but I have cut off contact for now. Have you ever felt pulled in so many directions you don't know which way is up and forward? That is how I am currently feeling. Can't be mad at my only a few friends who tried to warn me from the onset even if they helped me get into a deeper cluster. I honestly have never believed in counseling but I suppose it is better than the path I am currently headed down.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't think this relationship could possibly be repaired I mean she wants to apparently still. I still love her and I am upset that my friends got me that wasted and got me laid with a strange lady that I haven't ever met. But again that is on me and not them I made those choices even if I was wasted it felt good but I feel like **** about it now. I do want to apologize to her for what happened but I have cut off contact for now. Have you ever felt pulled in so many directions you don't know which way is up and forward? That is how I am currently feeling. Can't be mad at my only a few friends who tried to warn me from the onset even if they helped me get into a deeper cluster. I honestly have never believed in counseling but I suppose it is better than the path I am currently headed down.


I can’t even imagine being in your shoes. Stay strong and find a real therapist. There are some out there. 

It will get easier each day, you just can’t see it. One day you will be like wow I had a great day.


----------



## ABHale

She wants to fix things even after this weekend?

You accusing her of cheating is starting to hold water. I don’t believe the baby was yours.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't think this relationship could possibly be repaired I mean she wants to apparently still. I still love her and I am upset that my friends got me that wasted and got me laid with a strange lady that I haven't ever met. But again that is on me and not them I made those choices even if I was wasted it felt good but I feel like **** about it now. I do want to apologize to her for what happened but I have cut off contact for now. Have you ever felt pulled in so many directions you don't know which way is up and forward? That is how I am currently feeling. Can't be mad at my only a few friends who tried to warn me from the onset even if they helped me get into a deeper cluster. I honestly have never believed in counseling but I suppose it is better than the path I am currently headed down.


You aren’t giving yourself a chance to heal.Every update you make is you constantly getting in contact with your ex.
You need to break off all contact with her at least for a few weeks,then when your head is a bit clearer you can rethink the whole situation.
At the moment you are like a man trying to extinguish a fire by throwing gasoline on it.
These feelings you have will not vanish overnight,you feel cheated out of the future you had planned and you also are mourning the loss of a baby.You need counseling buddy and as soon as possible.


----------



## Blondilocks

Have you taken the steps suggested to determine if she was even pregnant? Get off this merry-go-round and get some facts. The facts will help you.


----------



## Kamstel

Please, PLEASE reread Andy1001’s post again!!

You have been thrown into one of the deepest pits of hell!! 


You are dealing with issues that I doubt any of your friends, family, or loved ones have ever dealt with! They are trying their best, but you need more!!!!! 

There is no shame in asking for help. Asking for help is NOT a sign of weakness; IT IS A SIGN OF STRENGTH!!!!

1) Please cut of all communication with her and her family. 
2)Tell your friends you no longer want to hear what she is up to
3). Cut down on the drinking until you are in a better place
4). Go see a counselor 

Hang in there

You can do this! You WILL get through this!!!


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Can't be mad at my only a few friends who tried to warn me from the onset


They warned you about her from the start of your relationship?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I have cut off all communication but she contacted some mutual friends and they told me that. And I told them to stop trying to contact me and don't try and be a middleman for us and try and be a messenger. Yes, my friends warned me from the start they were never fans of her and always tried to warn me off and tell me all the rumors that they had heard going around. I made an appointment for Tuesday morning with a therapist to help me work through all of this.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, my friends warned me from the start they were never fans of her and always tried to warn me off and tell me all the rumors that they had heard going around.


Interesting.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I have cut off all communication but she contacted some mutual friends and they told me that. And I told them to stop trying to contact me and don't try and be a middleman for us and try and be a messenger. Yes, my friends warned me from the start they were never fans of her and always tried to warn me off and tell me all the rumors that they had heard going around. I made an appointment for Tuesday morning with a therapist to help me work through all of this.


You are making good choices overall. One day this will be "in the past".

A therapist is a very good plan. They are a part of a support system to get through traumatic events. You have my respect for taking that decision.


----------



## Kamstel

Great news about therapist. Definitely a good call!

And good call about tell her friends to stop trying to be messengers

And I’m sorry to ask, but were the rumors about her with other men?



You are now NOT taking steps in the right ditection, you are taking LEAPS in he right direction

Stay strong!


----------



## Decorum

Kamstel said:


> And I’m sorry to ask, but were the rumors about her with other men?


I thought that's what he meant, but glad you are asking for a more definitive answer.

This may be why ending the relationship right away made more sense, there was a context we were unaware of.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

No not rumors about her without other men they just said they noticed she didn't say the nicest of things about me when I wasn't around and she flirted a lot with other dudes in High school I don't know about now but that is what I was told back then when I started dating her and most of my circle of friends were not really on board with me dating her. I don't know if they were telling the truth and being honest or not. I wanna get back with her because I still love her very much but I know if I do it would probably be an awful ****ing decision. This is probably why I need a therapist for a sounding board and an impartial unemotional opinion. My siblings heard about my weekend and blew up my phone fearing I am becoming an alcoholic and trying to drown myself away.


----------



## threelittlestars

Man...sir, Look up codependence. This situation feels not like love but (codependence). 

This is a betrayal on either A. Cheating and aborting. Or B. Aborting YOUR child. 

On some level you know this is a DEAL BREAKER but your codependence is making you miserable. She is literally all you know. Trust me, I married the man I was dating when I was 15. When you pair up with someone that young it is halts the independence that normal people get through their early 20s. We get it in our heads that there is only one path with that person. 

Get a THERAPIST, get a new phone number, move on. She is just no good for you and she hurt you, and at this point you are hurting her too. Imagine if she did abort your child...that alone could ruin her... 

Im sorry. It is best that you cut communication indefinitly.


----------



## MattMatt

threelittlestars said:


> Man...sir, Look up codependence. This situation feels not like love but (codependence).
> 
> This is a betrayal on either A. Cheating and aborting. Or B. Aborting YOUR child.
> 
> On some level you know this is a DEAL BREAKER but your codependence is making you miserable. She is literally all you know. Trust me, I married the man I was dating when I was 15. When you pair up with someone that young it is halts the independence that normal people get through their early 20s. We get it in our heads that there is only one path with that person.
> 
> Get a THERAPIST, get a new phone number, move on. She is just no good for you and she hurt you, and at this point you are hurting her too. Imagine if she did abort your child...that alone could ruin her...
> 
> Im sorry. It is best that you cut communication indefinitly.


Or C) Not even being pregnant in the first place.

Years ago, I knew of a young couple. They were 16 to 17, she told him she was pregnant, so he "did the right thing" and married her.

But she had a miscarriage after the marriage.

Over the next couple of years she claimed to have several more miscarriages, until eventually he began to doubt her. He questioned her and she tearfully confessed she had never been pregnant in the first place and had lied to him in order to get him to marry her. And that her subsequent miscarriages had also never happened.

He flew at her and physically attacked her, having totally lost it.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

If she told the truth and I have done what I have done to her I think it would honestly ruin me. But I have cut communication but at the same time dealing with these feelings and doubts and I have an appointment scheduled with a therapist/counselor. I have just stayed home this weekend so far and kept to myself for the most part and stayed away from my phone and friends. I probably am codependent on her because she is all I have ever known love wise.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> If she told the truth and I have done what I have done to her I think it would honestly ruin me. But I have cut communication but at the same time dealing with these feelings and doubts and I have an appointment scheduled with a therapist/counselor. I have just stayed home this weekend so far and kept to myself for the most part and stayed away from my phone and friends. I probably am codependent on her because she is all I have ever known love wise.


Honestly you are doing good for what you are going through. Writer down the facts of what she has done. 

Then read them over and over. Include the possibility that she has been cheating on you and that the baby wasn’t yours. Find your anger for what she has done to you and your life by her actions. Then with the help of the therapist, move on.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Met with my new therapist after work today. She is good I suppose kind of honestly awkward trying to talk about everything that I have gone through and currently dealing with. And she basically told me some of the same things that you guys have told me. Stay away from the alcohol and keep coming back to her and try and work through my feelings ext. She told me most everything I am feeling is pretty normal and it just takes time. Don't know if this will even work but I will give it a go and try and move forward.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Met with my new therapist after work today. She is good I suppose kind of honestly awkward trying to talk about everything that I have gone through and currently dealing with. And she basically told me some of the same things that you guys have told me. Stay away from the alcohol and keep coming back to her and try and work through my feelings ext. She told me most everything I am feeling is pretty normal and it just takes time. Don't know if this will even work but I will give it a go and try and move forward.


It’s good to talk to someone face to face rather than asking anonymous people on an Internet forum for advice.
People mean well but the advice you get can be contradictory which eventually gets very frustrating.This I know from when I first came on tam.
How did the weekend go,any more attempts at contact from either side?


----------



## ABHale

Hey loyaltyaboveallelse, how are you doing?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Sorry for going dark was dealing with a lot as well as I spent a few days in the hospital. Ex showed up to my new apartment and confronted me and was crying swearing she didn't cheat and that she didn't lie to me and just did what she thought was right. And well when I went to close the door in her face she kicked it in and broke my nose and then I guess got so angry at me for her actions that she also punched and scratched me? So I have a black eye from her and my nose was/is broken. I don't know how she found me or anything. But she got arrested and went to jail. But the attack wasn't why I spent a few days in the hospital just started having chest pains and come to find out I have started having rather bad panic attacks.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry for going dark was dealing with a lot as well as I spent a few days in the hospital. Ex showed up to my new apartment and confronted me and was crying swearing she didn't cheat and that she didn't lie to me and just did what she thought was right. And well when I went to close the door in her face she kicked it in and broke my nose and then I guess got so angry at me for her actions that she also punched and scratched me? So I have a black eye from her and my nose was/is broken. I don't know how she found me or anything. But she got arrested and went to jail. But the attack wasn't why I spent a few days in the hospital just started having chest pains and come to find out I have started having rather bad panic attacks.


Dude, is there any way that you can move to another town or anything? 

I mean, this is just getting even more crazy than it already was. 

And to think that she actually "Thinks" that you will believe her. I mean, I don't know, I think she is beyond nuts.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry for going dark was dealing with a lot as well as I spent a few days in the hospital. Ex showed up to my new apartment and confronted me and was crying swearing she didn't cheat and that she didn't lie to me and just did what she thought was right. And well when I went to close the door in her face she kicked it in and broke my nose and then I guess got so angry at me for her actions that she also punched and scratched me? So I have a black eye from her and my nose was/is broken. I don't know how she found me or anything. But she got arrested and went to jail. But the attack wasn't why I spent a few days in the hospital just started having chest pains and come to find out I have started having rather bad panic attacks.


Take photographs of your injuries and post them on whatever social media forum your ex uses,this should put a halt to the reconciliation mob and anyone else who sticks their nose in.
And please consider getting away for a couple of weeks,you need some peace and quiet in your life.


----------



## Tron

Your ex-fiance has lost her F'ing marbles.


----------



## personofinterest

Do NOT drop the charges. Let the justice system do its work. She needs intervention of a legal kind.


----------



## Decorum

Decorum said:


> Her anger is a manifestation of her guilt.
> 
> She is guilty for, cheating, lying, abortion, slandering you, etc.
> 
> She assaulted you to shut you down.
> 
> She has her version of truth and she is angry that you are not accepting it.
> 
> She is in self-defense mode now.
> 
> I get that some see abortion as something that differs little from picking your nose, but it is a serious procedure to end the birth process, and should not be entered into lightly.
> 
> She was desperate.
> 
> Now she is off her nut.
> 
> You have witnesses, get a protective order, and have her arrested for assault.
> 
> You do not want to face any false allegations, or be baited in later. Get it on record.
> 
> Dont let a false sense of chivalry leave your ass hanging out. You now know how she is.
> 
> Protect yourself!





Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't feel like throwing her in jail for slapping me and I don't think it is to the point of needing an order of protection from her either.




What do you think, do you feel me now?




Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry for going dark was dealing with a lot as well as I spent a few days in the hospital. Ex showed up to my new apartment and confronted me and was crying swearing she didn't cheat and that she didn't lie to me and just did what she thought was right. And well when I went to close the door in her face she kicked it in and broke my nose and then I guess got so angry at me for her actions that she also punched and scratched me? So I have a black eye from her and my nose was/is broken. I don't know how she found me or anything. But she got arrested and went to jail. But the attack wasn't why I spent a few days in the hospital just started having chest pains and come to find out I have started having rather bad panic attacks.


----------



## sunsetmist

So sorry for your angst. I can understand your stress. Her decision alone to abort is so beyond the expectations of relationship. Has she always been this volatile or did she manage to keep it undercover?

Being with someone who proceeds with what they think is right without discussing it with other parties is like living in the twilight zone. Control Life 101.


----------



## michzz

So will getting your nose broken and now getting chest pains from all of this get you to act to protect your interests?

Stay safe, do not drop charges for the jailing of her.

I'll bet she will try to convince you and all parties that it wasn't her fault that she actively went to your home and harmed you. it's your fault since you won't listen to her BS.


----------



## Cynthia

You must not drop the charges against her. It will only fuel her fire if she thinks she can get away with this horrible behavior.

Loved ones are supposed to bring out the best in us. Instead she has hurt you in some extremely horrific ways. There is no excuse for any of her behavior. If she thought was she did was the right thing, then she really doesn't have a clue about what is right or wrong. She probably thinks that physically attacking you was an appropriate response to her anger.

Please get a restraining order against her and sue her for damages for your physical injuries and the damage she did to your home. Confront this evil head on and do not allow it to take a further stronghold. 

You might also consider getting a gun and some training in how to use and store it properly. She seems to be escalating and you may need to protect yourself in a more serious manner. A restraining order is good, but when people are escalating, they often ignore such orders and the target (you) can be in ever increasing danger as the crazy person has more and more trouble containing their negative emotions.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> . I don't know how she found me or anything.


You need to find out who broke your confidence.

Now they may have done it becase they felt sorry for her, but you need to look then in the eye and emphasize that if they want in the loop they need to respect your wishes.

It could have even been your dear mother, but you should make the point.

Btw, who called the police?

Did they arrest her at your place, or somewhere else?


----------



## Lostinthought61

still miss her now? when someone shows you who they really are believe them.


----------



## Prodigal

At this point, I'd also suggest you look into getting a restraining order. It could come in handy if she comes to "visit" you again in the future.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

No, I don't miss her nor do I plan on dropping the charges against her. I didn't realize how insane she was until this all happened but my eyes are wide open. She is the one causing my panic attacks so clearly need to get away from her and spend time away with her. And my neighbors called the police and they arrived pretty quickly. They arrested her at my apartment she had to have gotten helped as my new place is gated and she would have needed the code to be let in. I am gonna find out who let her know where I live and probably cut them out of my life for a bit.


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No, I don't miss her nor do I plan on dropping the charges against her. I didn't realize how insane she was until this all happened but my eyes are wide open. She is the one causing my panic attacks so clearly need to get away from her and spend time away with her. And my neighbors called the police and they arrived pretty quickly. They arrested her at my apartment she had to have gotten helped as my new place is gated and she would have needed the code to be let in. I am gonna find out who let her know where I live and probably cut them out of my life for a bit.


Unless it's family, maybe consider cutting them out for good. If someone gave this clearly unstable person your access code (and address), they do not have your best interests at heart. Quite the opposite it would seem.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No, I don't miss her nor do I plan on dropping the charges against her. I didn't realize how insane she was until this all happened but my eyes are wide open. She is the one causing my panic attacks so clearly need to get away from her and spend time away with her. And my neighbors called the police and they arrived pretty quickly. They arrested her at my apartment she had to have gotten helped as my new place is gated and she would have needed the code to be let in. I am gonna find out who let her know where I live and probably cut them out of my life for a bit.


Permanent cut from your life. 

I say the one that helped her is like “What the **** have I done”.


----------



## ABHale

Many of times it’s a close friend that a gf will cheat with. 

If she was cheating it might be the one that helped her get to you.


----------



## ABHale

Any way you look at it. Who ever got her into your place is no friend of yours, he would have never let her in if he was.


----------



## oldshirt

different jurisdictions have different practices but in many areas it is the county or the state that prosecutes domestic assault and it is not up to the victim on whether to press charges or not. Often times if the victim shows signs of injury indicating an assault occurred, charges are filed whether the victim agrees to it or not. And if the prosecutor believes there is enough evidence to move forward with the charges, it is out of the victim's hands and the victim is not able to have the charges dropped even if he/she doesn't want the perpetuator charged.


----------



## Oceania

CynthiaDe said:


> You must not drop the charges against her. It will only fuel her fire if she thinks she can get away with this horrible behavior.
> 
> Loved ones are supposed to bring out the best in us. Instead she has hurt you in some extremely horrific ways. There is no excuse for any of her behavior. If she thought was she did was the right thing, then she really doesn't have a clue about what is right or wrong. She probably thinks that physically attacking you was an appropriate response to her anger.
> 
> Please get a restraining order against her and sue her for damages for your physical injuries and the damage she did to your home. Confront this evil head on and do not allow it to take a further stronghold.
> 
> *You might also consider getting a gun* and some training in how to use and store it properly. She seems to be escalating and you may need to protect yourself in a more serious manner. A restraining order is good, but when people are escalating, they often ignore such orders and the target (you) can be in ever increasing danger as the crazy person has more and more trouble containing their negative emotions.


Wow. Over here we more or less just pick up sticks and move to escape an abusive situation...

When would he have to pull his gun out? When she has hers?

In my part of the world if a man had to use a gun to defend himself against a woman he would be considered a wimp, a w*nker...

I just don't see how having a gun tucked away in case of emergencies would help de-escalate a situation.

Just ring the bloody police at the first sign of her.


----------



## Cynthia

CmonDionne said:


> Wow. Over here we more or less just pick up sticks and move to escape an abusive situation...
> 
> When would he have to pull his gun out? When she has hers?
> 
> In my part of the world if a man had to use a gun to defend himself against a woman he would be considered a wimp, a w*nker...
> 
> I just don't see how having a gun tucked away in case of emergencies would help de-escalate a situation.
> 
> Just ring the bloody police at the first sign of her.


You do you. If you were in a dangerous situation where you had to defend yourself, then by all means do what you believe is right. 

There is nothing wrong with most people having a gun for self-defense. There are many scenarios where a gun would be appropriate. Next time she is likely to be armed with something. When things escalate, you never know what you might be up against. Furthermore, having a gun often deescalates a situation rather than the other way around.


----------



## Thor

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.


----------



## Kamstel

Thor is 100% correct

And I would rather have one and not need it, than needing one and not having it 


Do you have any suspects who helped her into the place?


----------



## Luminous

Depends on the local laws, and the laws of the country you are in. Seems like anyone in the USA can get a gun, so perhaps there is merit to that argument.


----------



## GusPolinski

CmonDionne said:


> Wow. Over here we more or less just pick up sticks and move to escape an abusive situation...
> 
> When would he have to pull his gun out? When she has hers?
> 
> In my part of the world if a man had to use a gun to defend himself against a woman he would be considered a wimp, a w*nker...
> 
> I just don't see how having a gun tucked away in case of emergencies would help de-escalate a situation.
> 
> Just ring the bloody police at the first sign of her.


The idea isn't to "de-escalate", but rather to defend oneself.

And deadly force is typically deemed justifiable in cases in which grievous bodily injury could have been reasonably been anticipated. An unarmed 110-lb woman at the front door of an 180-lb man might not meet that burden, but the same woman charging the same man while swinging a 10" chef's knife very well may.


----------



## Oceania

CynthiaDe said:


> You do you. If you were in a dangerous situation where you had to defend yourself, then by all means do what you believe is right.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with most people having a gun for self-defense. There are many scenarios where a gun would be appropriate. Next time she is likely to be armed with something. When things escalate, you never know what you might be up against. Furthermore, having a gun often deescalates a situation rather than the other way around.


Good to see you're still using your words...


----------



## Oceania

Kamstel said:


> Thor is 100% correct
> 
> And I would rather have one and not need it, than needing one and not having it
> 
> Do you have any suspects who helped her into the place?


I am not yet fully convinced she cheated. As to who helped her into the place it's someone close to him.

Just as an aside, did they ever sit down and really _talk_ talk? It sounds like everything just blew up!


----------



## MattMatt

She probably hung around until someone else walked in and followed them.

And she might have stolen the address details from a mutual friend.

Or used a PI.


----------



## Cynthia

MattMatt said:


> She probably hung around until someone else walked in and followed them.
> 
> And she might have stolen the address details from a mutual friend.
> 
> Or used a PI.


Possibly, but she still would have had to get information from someone about where he moved to if she sneaked in behind someone else.


----------



## MattMatt

CynthiaDe said:


> Possibly, but she still would have had to get information from someone about where he moved to if she sneaked in behind someone else.


Followed him home from work, got a PI, stolen his address from a friend's home?


----------



## Decorum

I wanna play!!!

Maybe she tied a string to his car and followed it there!


----------



## Andy1001

You guys are all missing the obvious answer.
This psycho ***** has a tracker on his phone and probably his car.
To the op,remove whatever apps you have on your phone that show your location,find my IPhone,find friends etc.
Also if you go away for a few days block all numbers except maybe your boss and whichever of your friends or family that you can trust implicitly.


----------



## ABHale

CmonDionne said:


> I am not yet fully convinced she cheated. As to who helped her into the place it's someone close to him.
> 
> Just as an aside, did they ever sit down and really _talk_ talk? It sounds like everything just blew up!


I think he did try the sit down once. Think she was bat **** crazy that time too. Family was there then so no violence.


----------



## ABHale

MattMatt said:


> Followed him home from work, got a PI, stolen his address from a friend's home?


Still needed a code to get into the gate.


----------



## MattMatt

ABHale said:


> Still needed a code to get into the gate.


Unless she followed behind someone.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I have tried talking to her and I had support there and all it lead to was her yelling at me and getting angry and making a scene. I don't know what else I can honestly do, I mean this isn't easy for me either to endure. And if she really hasn't cheated then I would feel awful for what I have done but she still went behind my back and aborted our baby. I still am In love with her and It will take me a very long time to not feel that or possibly ever as you can't just wipe away a twelve-year relationship. But I can't stay with her either as I don't think I will ever have the answers I want whilst being able to trust her. It is finally to the point where it is affecting my health so I gotta move on. I also saw my therapist again and she is advising me to get a restraining order and also to see a psychiatrist for depression and anxiety.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I have tried talking to her and I had support there and all it lead to was her yelling at me and getting angry and making a scene. I don't know what else I can honestly do, I mean this isn't easy for me either to endure. And if she really hasn't cheated then I would feel awful for what I have done but she still went behind my back and aborted our baby. I still am In love with her and It will take me a very long time to not feel that or possibly ever as you can't just wipe away a twelve-year relationship. But I can't stay with her either as I don't think I will ever have the answers I want whilst being able to trust her. It is finally to the point where it is affecting my health so I gotta move on. I also saw my therapist again and she is advising me to get a restraining order and also to see a psychiatrist for depression and anxiety.


You know, I believe that you are completely doing the right thing. Now, some people here don't think that she cheated. Now that may be a possibility, but think about is. If she was not cheating, why would she about the baby? Who does that. I think that the possibility of her not cheating are about 0.0000000001%. 

I believe that the likelihood of that is almost non existent. 

Even if she did not cheat, highly unlikely, she killed your child. 

No man, you need to move on. I am guessing that you loved her but you never really knew her, it happens.


----------



## NobodySpecial

BluesPower said:


> You know, I believe that you are completely doing the right thing. Now, *some people here don't think that she cheated*. Now that may be a possibility, but think about is. If she was not cheating, why would she about the baby? Who does that. I think that the possibility of her not cheating are about 0.0000000001%.
> 
> I believe that the likelihood of that is almost non existent.
> 
> Even if she did not cheat, highly unlikely, she killed your child.
> 
> No man, you need to move on. I am guessing that you loved her but you never really knew her, it happens.


I can't see how that even matters now. Nothing but water under the bridge. She has since exposed her serious psycho.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Is it bad that I never saw this side of her until now? I feel dumb and blindsided by it in all honesty. I don't know what to think of myself anymore right now. It is honestly keeping myself up a lot these past few weeks not getting near as much sleep as I used to.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Is it bad that I never saw this side of her until now? I feel dumb and blindsided by it in all honesty. I don't know what to think of myself anymore right now. It is honestly keeping myself up a lot these past few weeks not getting near as much sleep as I used to.


You may have had some "love goggles" on, but don't beat yourself up, most people put someone else on a pedestal at least once in their life.

She has an abusive side, you cant forget that. Whether she cheated or not. This could have come out at some point and ruined everything anyway.

You don't like the idea of being wrong about her cheating, you feel it is not fair to her, you are a good guy, but she ruined any chance of ever discussing that by how she behaved. That is on her.

There was no excuse for her behavior, and please don't ever excuse it in any future relationships.


----------



## threelittlestars

I think she might have serious mental condition. After going through what I am going through right now maybe her hormone changes with getting pregnant changed her brain chemistry and she aborted out of fear. Either way, you dont have to deal with a spouse with mental illness and as a spouse. That is a cross you dont need to bear.


----------



## Kamstel

Just checking in on you. How are you doing?

Were you ever able to see a dr. About anti depression and anxiety meds?

Any further contact with her? 

Hang in there. You know you are doing the right thing! And, you know what she did. You are better off getting her out of your life.

Good luck and stay strong


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Sorry for not having updated in a while. I saw a doctor and he put me on some antidepressants and antianxiety meds. But those did not help at all and in fact, made things a lot worse and is why I haven't updated in a while. I was probably the closest I have ever been to take my own life my head was in a very very bad place the worst it has ever been bar none. But I called some friends for help and they took me to the ER and they sat with me for a few days while the hospital got my meds evened out. Was definitely an experience I don't wish to ever experience again. I don't think I have had any contact with her, to be honest the few days I was on those meds and had the bad reaction coupled with the hospital knocking me out for a bit my memory isn't 100% of everything.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Is it bad that I never saw this side of her until now? I feel dumb and blindsided by it in all honesty. I don't know what to think of myself anymore right now. It is honestly keeping myself up a lot these past few weeks not getting near as much sleep as I used to.


The old saying is so true. 

Love is blind. You really loved her. It makes you blind to faults. Rose colored glasses.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry for not having updated in a while. I saw a doctor and he put me on some antidepressants and antianxiety meds. But those did not help at all and in fact, made things a lot worse and is why I haven't updated in a while. I was probably the closest I have ever been to take my own life my head was in a very very bad place the worst it has ever been bar none. But I called some friends for help and they took me to the ER and they sat with me for a few days while the hospital got my meds evened out. Was definitely an experience I don't wish to ever experience again. I don't think I have had any contact with her, to be honest the few days I was on those meds and had the bad reaction coupled with the hospital knocking me out for a bit my memory isn't 100% of everything.


Get off of that stuff man. Throw it all in the trash. Dont listen to people who tell you to get medicated. Find an outlet that is healthy. Get to the gym. Take up hobbies. Those meds are for people who have serious chemical imbalances that have been diagnosed of a long period of time. Taking pills just because you feel down sometimes or something bad happened and you are using them to cope is some of the absolute worst advice I see frequently on these forums. These are the same people who would tell you not to turn to alcohol or weed or something. In reality its the same thing. Its terrible advice and you learned the hard way. 

Take that **** and throw it in the trash. Pick up a hobby, something physically demanding and create the time for it. Stay busy busting your balls to achieve something. Dont turn to pills man. To hell with that advice.


----------



## ABHale

Just glade your ok now man.


----------



## WorkingWife

Diana7 said:


> Wow, major red flags here. She deliberately got pregnant and then killed the baby? I think she has some serious character flaws and issues here, how can you ever trust her again?


It doesn't make any sense. :surprise: 

To the OP: How are you going to solve problems as a couple when she does these life altering things without talking to you first?

1. Stops BC and lies about it. (WHY? You were engaged and planning kids later anyhow.)
2. Kills the baby she wanted so badly that she lied to you to get pregnant.

Honestly? It sounds like she is mentally ill. Certainly not good at considering the long term consequences of pretty much anything.


----------



## Decorum

Someone held you as a baby, nursed you, cared for you, worried about you.

You have good friends.

You are loved and would be missed.

Enough pain for now, for everyone. 

Heal, find yourself again. Small steps.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I am trying to heal and get better depression just really took hold badly those days or it was the meds I don't really know for sure. But friends confirmed I didn't depress call or text her which made me rather happy lol. But one of my friends I have known for years is staying with me for awhile to I guess keep and eye on me. She says she is worried and just wants to make sure I don't do anything but I told her I wasn't and that I would reach out for help but she insisted and so I caved.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am trying to heal and get better depression just really took hold badly those days or it was the meds I don't really know for sure. But friends confirmed I didn't depress call or text her which made me rather happy lol. But one of my friends I have known for years is staying with me for awhile to I guess keep and eye on me. She says she is worried and just wants to make sure I don't do anything but I told her I wasn't and that I would reach out for help but she insisted and so I caved.


Yeah you seem better, it may have been the meds that brought on a low point. Having someone around gives you something else to think about, and will help you be honest with yourself and be the kind of person you want to be.

Being with someone is the most basic kind of support. Good for her, you did not cave, you gave in to you better judgment lol.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am trying to heal and get better depression just really took hold badly those days or it was the meds I don't really know for sure. But friends confirmed I didn't depress call or text her which made me rather happy lol. But one of my friends I have known for years is staying with me for awhile to I guess keep and eye on me. She says she is worried and just wants to make sure I don't do anything but I told her I wasn't and that I would reach out for help but she insisted and so I caved.


You have a very good friend who is so worried about you that she is prepared to move in with you to make sure you are safe.Please put any suicidal thoughts out of your mind,at least for her sake.If anything happened to you she will spend the rest of her life blaming herself.
And I know from reading your thread you wouldn’t want your friend to suffer like that.
This is a cliche but suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
If you give yourself time to heal,in time you will be able to move on and build a relationship with someone else.
I really wish you all the best and if you are religious may your god look after you.


----------



## Oceania

That's a very good friend you have there. You might end up with her OP.


----------



## Oceania

I am just going to throw this out there... If I were with someone for 12 years you'd think I'd know them well enough to say straight off the bat to a bunch of strangers on the internet that ýes she has lied to me in the past' or ýes there was that about her' etc. OP hasn't said that anywhere in this thread. And even if he had, the immediate conclusion almost everyone jumped to is that 'she cheated' so just dump her.

Where is the evidence people? One of the few if not the only piece of advice I have seen on this thread contrary to the baying to 'dump her' is Taxman at post #128 advising OP and GF to take some time apart to cool off.

After 12 years OP and GF both deserve to hear each other out. Don't you think that GF's action was out of left field? Doesn't that tell you something? Something else is going on! And why didn't OP's friends tell him earlier GF was saying stuff about him or doing shady stuff? It's not adding up people.

If it turns out that GF did cheat I'll be the first to put my hands up and say ýou were right afterall.'

But if I were OP I'd do some digging because after 12 years I deserve answers. And OP be careful with your friend there.


----------



## BluesPower

CmonDionne said:


> I am just going to throw this out there... If I were with someone for 12 years you'd think I'd know them well enough to say straight off the bat to a bunch of strangers on the internet that ýes she has lied to me in the past' or ýes there was that about her' etc. OP hasn't said that anywhere in this thread. And even if he had, the immediate conclusion almost everyone jumped to is that 'she cheated' so just dump her.
> 
> Where is the evidence people? One of the few if not the only piece of advice I have seen on this thread contrary to the baying to 'dump her' is Taxman at post #128 advising OP and GF to take some time apart to cool off.
> 
> After 12 years OP and GF both deserve to hear each other out. Don't you think that GF's action was out of left field? Doesn't that tell you something? Something else is going on! And why didn't OP's friends tell him earlier GF was saying stuff about him or doing shady stuff? It's not adding up people.
> 
> If it turns out that GF did cheat I'll be the first to put my hands up and say ýou were right afterall.'
> 
> But if I were OP I'd do some digging because after 12 years I deserve answers. And OP be careful with your friend there.


Could not disagree more, and this was covered at the beginning of this thread. What she did is unforgivable because 1) Most likely she DID cheat and got pregnant by another guy and all the pretense of the unprotected sex was just that, pretense. Or 2) She aborted the baby of the man she was supposed to marry, without even talking to him. 

Plus, she is completely nuts. I think he must have seen this once in 12 years but who knows. 

The vast majority of women would not to this if it was his child. Odds are like 99.999 to 1 that it was not his...


----------



## Oceania

CmonDionne said:


> I am just going to throw this out there... If I were with someone for 12 years you'd think I'd know them well enough to say straight off the bat to a bunch of strangers on the internet that ýes she has lied to me in the past' or ýes there was that about her' etc. OP hasn't said that anywhere in this thread. And even if he had, the immediate conclusion almost everyone jumped to is that 'she cheated' so just dump her.
> 
> Where is the evidence people? One of the few if not the only piece of advice I have seen on this thread contrary to the baying to 'dump her' is Taxman at post #128 advising OP and GF to take some time apart to cool off.
> 
> After 12 years OP and GF both deserve to hear each other out. Don't you think that GF's action was out of left field? Doesn't that tell you something? Something else is going on! And why didn't OP's friends tell him earlier GF was saying stuff about him or doing shady stuff? It's not adding up people.
> 
> If it turns out that GF did cheat I'll be the first to put my hands up and say ýou were right afterall.'
> 
> But if I were OP I'd do some digging because after 12 years I deserve answers. And OP be careful with your friend there.


I stand by the above statement BluesPower. OP refer #128 and consider the recommendation there; counselling for you without your friends and her without her family. Find clarity so that you can move forward.

And again be careful with your friend there.


----------



## Blondilocks

There is no evidence she was even pregnant.

eta: I second the advice to be careful of this female friend. Two weeks tops and out she goes.


----------



## Oceania

Blondilocks said:


> There is no evidence she was even pregnant.
> 
> eta: I second the advice to be careful of this female friend. *Two weeks *tops and out she goes.


Two days in my estimation. Two weeks is more than long enough to strike up a relationship if one was of the mind to.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

CmonDionne said:


> Two days in my estimation. Two weeks is more than long enough to strike up a relationship if one was of the mind to.


 Two days huh? You feel that is plenty of time for him to level out from his suicidal behavior and wouldn't need anyone to keep an eye on him or talk with him?
If it did end up going somewhere with his friend, besides the fact that it's too early for him to be in another relationship or even considering one, what difference does it make? It's certainly not worth risking his mental well being over. Yeah, two days won't cover it.


----------



## Oceania

Rubix Cubed said:


> Two days huh? You feel that is plenty of time for him to level out from his suicidal behavior and wouldn't need anyone to keep an eye on him or talk with him?
> If it did end up going somewhere with his friend, besides the fact that it's too early for him to be in another relationship or even considering one, what difference does it make? It's certainly not worth risking his mental well being over. Yeah, two days won't cover it.


RC 

OP in no way am I unsympathetic to your plight.


----------



## xMadame

Ever think she got raped and was too ashamed to talk to you about it? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tron

All cleaned up now I see. Thread jack over.

I hope everyone has a nice peaceful day.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Warning*

Civil debate, please! Or not only will posts be deleted, bans may be in initiated.


----------



## jlg07

@xMadame, I am SO SORRY to hear what you went through. Please make sure you get into counseling and make sure that guy goes to prison for what he did to you.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse,
Be good to yourself, you are a good person.

Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone deserves a second chance in a relationship. 

Imo some do deserve a second chance as a human being (we might call that forgiveness). 

That does not automatically mean they will be a part of our life, because that would be a relationship of some kind.

Loyaltyaboveallelse, you may someday wish you had handled this differently (in some way), then you may feel you have made a mistake as well.

Welcome to the human race. 

I can tell you always wanted to do the right thing. No one can take that away from you.

If you find you made a mistake then you may ask forgiveness for yourself as well.

The person may or may not grant it. That is up to them. All you can do is ask.

The mistake/forgiveness door swings both ways.

I have yet to read anything that remotely demonstrates remorse of any kind on her part.

She seems to only hold herself blameless in all of this.

I hope she can honestly face what she has done and own her mistakes someday. 

I dont think it is likely anytime soon.

Peace!


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Feel like I maybe missed some things while I was away?

My friend is still here with me probably a good thing as I got depressed again. Mostly because her family came over and pleaded with me to take her back they swear she didn't cheat on me, Honestly isn't helping me at all not sure why they are doing this. Of course, I still love her and I think they still know that but even if she didn't cheat on me still broke my trust in a major way. I don't know what I am doing anymore all I know is I am trying to do the right thing and it is increasingly harder and harder to do. And on top of it all, I slept with my friend who is here trying to help me out and I can tell you I feel unbelievably conflicted about that and just guilt-ridden about it. She makes me happy but I can't be in a relationship with her not while I am dealing with this mess and in this crazy insane mental headspace, ya know?


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Feel like I maybe missed some things while I was away?
> 
> My friend is still here with me probably a good thing as I got depressed again. Mostly because her family came over and pleaded with me to take her back they swear she didn't cheat on me, Honestly isn't helping me at all not sure why they are doing this. Of course, I still love her and I think they still know that but even if she didn't cheat on me still broke my trust in a major way. I don't know what I am doing anymore all I know is I am trying to do the right thing and it is increasingly harder and harder to do. And on top of it all, I slept with my friend who is here trying to help me out and I can tell you I feel unbelievably conflicted about that and just guilt-ridden about it. She makes me happy but I can't be in a relationship with her not while I am dealing with this mess and in this crazy insane mental headspace, ya know?


Feel for you mate. It's a **** of a situation. The only advice I would give is distancing yourself as much as possible from it all. The more distance, the more objectivity you have.

Any chance you can get away for a bit? Provided you feel that you feel you won't slip into a dark area.


----------



## threelittlestars

Im so sorry about your depression, but it is normal. Please go to a doctor and get on some medication. It can take up to a month to snap you out of the depression. 

Sleeping with someone at this point is understandable, but wrong. She may be trying to either take advantage or sooth you. You need space and may hurt her is creating some between the two of you. But it is necessary. 

Anyway. i am currently UBER depressed too. I know what you are feeling. (NOT exactly of course)


----------



## Oceania

OP I really feel sorry for both you and GF. You both got played. One way or another you'll come out of this whether that's together or separately.

I wish you both the best.


----------



## MattMatt

CmonDionne said:


> OP I really feel sorry for both you and GF. You both got played. One way or another you'll come out of this whether that's together or separately.
> 
> I wish you both the best.


Both got played?

How so?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

CmonDionne said:


> OP I really feel sorry for both you and GF. You both got played. One way or another you'll come out of this whether that's together or separately.
> 
> I wish you both the best.


Why do you feel like I got played? I am really curious why you feel so strongly about this.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

And to the question on if I can possibly get away, Not sure my family and friends would allow it because of the depression I am dealing with currently and it is probably for the best in all honesty.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Feel like I maybe missed some things while I was away?
> 
> My friend is still here with me probably a good thing as I got depressed again. Mostly because her family came over and pleaded with me to take her back they swear she didn't cheat on me, Honestly isn't helping me at all not sure why they are doing this. Of course, I still love her and I think they still know that but even if she didn't cheat on me still broke my trust in a major way. I don't know what I am doing anymore all I know is I am trying to do the right thing and it is increasingly harder and harder to do. And on top of it all, I slept with my friend who is here trying to help me out and I can tell you I feel unbelievably conflicted about that and just guilt-ridden about it. She makes me happy but I can't be in a relationship with her not while I am dealing with this mess and in this crazy insane mental headspace, ya know?


Men and women are wired to meet and mate fairly quickly. 

You are emotionally needy at the moment, and she is supportive and available.

I assumed it was inevitable. 

Dont make more out of it then that. 

Tell her you could never replace someone like her but you feel so out of control you can't make any promises and you don't want to hurt her.

If she says thats ok she enjoyed it, she would do it again, well,... it's your call.

If you were sure your ex-girlfriend did not cheat would you take her back?

If the answer is no, then change the spin to, "I have thought about it and I believe her now that she did not cheat, but she broke my trust, and there have been more issues so I do not intend to get back with her. But yeah I dont think she cheated anymore."

If the answer is yes, well that's something you should begin talking about with a counselor at least to start.


----------



## xMadame

jlg07 said:


> @xMadame, I am SO SORRY to hear what you went through. Please make sure you get into counseling and make sure that guy goes to prison for what he did to you.




Thanks. Working on it. Hard to get off the couch when you are depressed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Stay off the pills bro. Disregard that advice. Its garbage.


----------



## Prodigal

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Stay off the pills bro. Disregard that advice. Its garbage.


So it's okay to pop psilocybin 'shrooms, but the OP - who sounds extremely depressed - shouldn't take an antidepressant because it's "garbage"?

Uh, yeah, okay …. whatever.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Prodigal said:


> So it's okay to pop psilocybin 'shrooms, but the OP - who sounds extremely depressed - shouldn't take an antidepressant because it's "garbage"?
> 
> Uh, yeah, okay …. whatever.


You don't "pop" shrooms first of all. Maybe that is why you are using the confused emoji. Second, I don't recommend psilocybin outside of joking around with people for a laugh. I wouldn't actually prescribe a trip to someone as a means to a better life. As that would be stupid. Sort of like telling people to pop happy pills after already reading about his first reaction to them. 

Might as well tell the guy to drink heavily and that will make it go away. Anti depressants have their place with long term chemical imbalances caused by their own body. Feeling sad because you are going through a tough spot in life being used as an excuse to pop pills is reckless and dangerous advice to give out. Its piss poor as a matter of fact. You can disagree all you want, but in my view thats **** advice. OP took that advice already and almost killed himself.


----------



## MattMatt

Such meds are a short term fix. Longer term use can be a real problem.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

MattMatt said:


> Such meds are a short term fix. Longer term use can be a real problem.


Short term fix. Basically, they might make you feel better temporarily. But they have some bad side effects, they aren't a long term solution to mental health, and they just may increase your chances of suicide, as well as other health issues. 

If I were to come on here and say "drown yourself and your pain in alcohol" I would be chastised and rightfully so for giving out that terrible advice. For some reason people pushing pills is seen as good advice. I dont get it.


----------



## Prodigal

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I wouldn't actually prescribe a trip to someone as a means to a better life. As that would be stupid.


Agreed. Stupid. How was I to know you were merely joking when you suggested Haiku join you in imbibing in mushrooms? Nowhere did I say anything even vaguely resembling prescribing antidepressants or any other psychotropic med. Nowhere.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Might as well tell the guy to drink heavily and that will make it go away.


Neither drinking or drugs make anything go away, even if there is a chemical imbalance. I know of what I speak, having gone off Paxil for 10 months last year and living with the hell of major depressive disorder coupled with generalized anxiety disorder. Wouldn't wish it on my own enemy. And ANY antidepressant, given without including therapy, is not going to "cure" a depressive disorder. Even for someone like me.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Feeling sad because you are going through a tough spot in life being used as an excuse to pop pills is reckless and dangerous advice to give out. Its piss poor as a matter of fact. You can disagree all you want, but in my view thats **** advice. OP took that advice already and almost killed himself.


AGAIN, sir, I did not advise OP to take meds. I voiced my confusion over your post. I did not agree, merely questioned. It would behoove the OP, however, to see his physician to determine if he might be reacting as he is due to a depressive disorder.

And, P.S. - I don't care for your crude tone. As a rule, I think I give pretty damn good advice. So please refrain from telling anyone here they give sh!t advice simply because you disagree with it.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Prodigal said:


> And, P.S. - I don't care for your crude tone. As a rule, I think I give pretty damn good advice. So please refrain from telling anyone here they give sh!t advice simply because you disagree with it.


Yes mother.

Btw. I wasn't calling you out for anything. I was simply replying to your post which was calling me into question. Escapism using alcohol or pot or whatever, is equal to paxil and other drugs a doc will give you after a 5 minute consultation. "So the nurse tells me you are sad, here take this prescription, I'll get paid, you get medicated to escape, win/win right?" Its horse **** advice. You can think my opinion is wrong all you want. People often critique advice given on this forum. Your response to me was to question my advice I would give based on a joke in the first place. Suggesting I have an issue with pills but would actually tell someone to take shrooms for some reason. 

For the record everyone thinks they give really good advice. You certainly aren't alone in that feeling. Doesn't mean its true though. That goes for everyone. Including myself.


----------



## Luminous

Part of the issue I find regarding pills etc, is that Doctors can only give advice that is inside their 'box' of experience/education. There are other ways to deal with situations like this, than the 'quick fix' of pills/drugs etc.

The human body is an amazing machine and perhaps looking for answers WITHIN than trying to find external 'fixes' is a longer term solution.

When we are in pain, most of us will take the quick and easy path to get away from it, doesn't mean overall it is the quickest/healthiest.

Bit like a short cut being the longest way between two points.


----------



## BluesPower

TheDudeLebowski said:


> You don't "pop" shrooms first of all. Maybe that is why you are using the confused emoji. Second, I don't recommend psilocybin outside of joking around with people for a laugh. I wouldn't actually prescribe a trip to someone as a means to a better life. As that would be stupid. Sort of like telling people to pop happy pills after already reading about his first reaction to them.
> 
> Might as well tell the guy to drink heavily and that will make it go away. Anti depressants have their place with long term chemical imbalances caused by their own body. Feeling sad because you are going through a tough spot in life being used as an excuse to pop pills is reckless and dangerous advice to give out. Its piss poor as a matter of fact. You can disagree all you want, but in my view thats **** advice. OP took that advice already and almost killed himself.


I get that you are against pills, but I have to disagree. OP in this case, is super down about this deal. 

A short term AD could really help him over the hump. I am not saying that the decision is trivial or should be taken lightly.


----------



## MattMatt

The side effects for long term use can be: depression, suicidal thoughts and outbursts of anger.

So they can make you worse.


----------



## BluesPower

MattMatt said:


> The side effects for long term use can be: depression, suicidal thoughts and outbursts of anger.
> 
> So they can make you worse.


Yes that can happen, however, if it does, it is the wrong med for the wrong person. That is why Dr's monitor their patients. 

And if someone if undiagnosed bi-polar then the wrong AD can cause a manic episode, come to find out that is how a lot of people find out...


----------



## MattMatt

BluesPower said:


> Yes that can happen, however, if it does, it is the wrong med for the wrong person. That is why Dr's monitor their patients.
> 
> And if someone if undiagnosed bi-polar then the wrong AD can cause a manic episode, come to find out that is how a lot of people find out...


Unfortunately those are all common side effects with many types of antidepressants. And has no connection with undiagnosed bipolar conditions. Which is another problem, though we are 
starting to drift into off topic territory.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I am still feeling pretty crappy but still attempting to abide by my doctor's advice with the therapy and meds but I have defiantly gotten involved with my friend when it wasn't even my intention to do. But she is helping me forget and helping me to feel less numb I suppose. But I don't want to hurt her or ruin a friendship so not even sure where to go from this in all honesty.


----------



## Diana7

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am still feeling pretty crappy but still attempting to abide by my doctor's advice with the therapy and meds but I have defiantly gotten involved with my friend when it wasn't even my intention to do. But she is helping me forget and helping me to feel less numb I suppose. But I don't want to hurt her or ruin a friendship so not even sure where to go from this in all honesty.


The thing is that we DO feel bad and unhappy when a relationship ends, that's normal, but A)its a very bad idea to use another person in that way, and B) taking medication for normal sadness and grieving isn't a good idea. 
Medication is for those who are genuinely ill with clinical depression etc not for when we have been hurt or have had a loss.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am still feeling pretty crappy but still attempting to abide by my doctor's advice with the therapy and meds but I have defiantly gotten involved with my friend when it wasn't even my intention to do. But she is helping me forget and helping me to feel less numb I suppose. But I don't want to hurt her or ruin a friendship so not even sure where to go from this in all honesty.


For starters be honest, "I know this has changed me. I am so broken, and I am only starting to heal. You mean a lot to me, so I need to be honest, I can't promise you will not be hurt in the long run."

It probably will not make any difference, but at least you gave her a reason to check her expectations.


----------



## Kamstel

She probably feels the same way.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I just don't wanna use her to make myself feel better which Is what I have basically been doing and it makes me feel worse and more ****ty if I am being in all honesty. Trying to work up the courage to talk to her without hurting her in some way. Don't wanna lose a friend in which I have had since early childhood. But all at the same time I don't wanna be alone and feel as bad as I was feeling. I do want to stop these meds I do not think they are helping in any way shape or form if only making things worse. My ex's parents called today and want me to meet them for dinner Friday night they really want to talk to me but this is probably a trap in the worst possible way and I don't see how this could help anyway.


----------



## sunsetmist

I would avoid ex's parents--cut all ties unless you want to go back to chaos. Don't make decisions while you are so conflicted. You have NO reason to feel guilt!

If you don't want to take prescribed meds, you might prefer something over the counter like 5 HTP-Extra.

Live-in friend is gonna be hurt, but the longer you wait, the more difficult it will be. She knew what she was signing up for and may even have taken advantage of your being overwhelmed.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I just don't wanna use her to make myself feel better which Is what I have basically been doing and it makes me feel worse and more ****ty if I am being in all honesty. Trying to work up the courage to talk to her without hurting her in some way. Don't wanna lose a friend in which I have had since early childhood. But all at the same time I don't wanna be alone and feel as bad as I was feeling. I do want to stop these meds I do not think they are helping in any way shape or form if only making things worse. My ex's parents called today and want me to meet them for dinner Friday night they really want to talk to me but this is probably a trap in the worst possible way and I don't see how this could help anyway.


I really want you to listen to what I am telling you. You have been through multiple traumas and you head is still not straight, it is understandable. 

1) Do you get off the meds until you are getting yourself more together. It could me a couple of months, it could be 6 months or more. It does not make you weak, it is the way it is.

Dude, you had to spend time in the hospital over this. If you did not need to be there the would not have kept you. I know a lot of people are down on these meds. But I have been around people with mental illness my entire life. The meds in you case will help you get though this, and then when you better you can come off them under a docs supervision. 

2) What you have been through is terrible but you need to understand and deal with what happened. 

Your GF cheated on you, got pregnant by another man and aborted the baby. And lied to you the whole time. 

3) Even if she did not cheat, she killed your child. There is no coming back from that. 

4) She is insane and you know it. So with the above two things, she is a nut, off her rocker, and none of that is your fault, it just is not. 

5) You need to text her parents, AND I MEAN TEXT, and say the following. 

"I am respectfully asking you to not ever contact me again, please. Your daughter cheated, got pregnant by another man, or she killed our child. And on top of all of that, she has assaulted me multiple times. Please have respect for me and do not contact me for any reason, ever. I will never talk to your daughter again, and I do not want to talk to you. This is your daughter's doing and it is all on her. Please leave me alone and do not contact me." 

6) The girl. You know what, she cares for you, she is helping you, so let her. She knows what she is doing, she is a grown woman. If she wants to care for you, for god's sake let her. You have not promised her anything, and who know if you guys will be permanent or not, and that is not something that should be a concern. Don't worry about it. 

7) I am betting that you saw some of your Ex's red flags in the past, you looked past them. Now you know better. 

You have just got to get yourself together. Get the Ex's parents, and your Ex, out of your life and keep them there. 

Please take care of YOU for a change...


----------



## Mr.Married

Do not see her parents !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Luminous

Mr.Married said:


> Do not see her parents !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OP, if you aren't already, look at everything that is done on your ex's side as a tactic. A tactic to manipulate you. The parents being brought into the mix is getting towards the last straw of desperation. Her parents might be nice, logical people. You weren't dating them. They weren't always living with you. 

These people above are saying what is necessary for you and your remaining sanity to stay intact


----------



## Not

Even if her parents have good intentions and mean you no harm you’re not up for this, you’re not ready. Simply tell them you aren’t up to it but don’t leave it open ended.


----------



## personofinterest

Nothing good can come of seeing ANY of your ex's family.


----------



## sunsetmist

So, did you meet with ex's parents last night? How are you???


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yeah, I went and met up with my Ex's Parents I took my friend along. I, I just I don't know what I am looking for I suppose I just need answers? I need to know what I missed or didn't see or if I saw something that wasn't there? If that makes sense I am not sure I am honestly. My ex-didn't show up and wasn't there which I suppose made things a little easier. They swear she didn't cheat and still love me as if I am their own sun and have heard that I was struggling with drinking and now some pretty severe depression. They want me to give her another chance and to sit down and talk with her and try and have an open and honesty conversation with one another. They couldn't tell me anything new or tell me why she would have aborted our child if it was truly mine and that she didn't cheat. Basically, this did nothing for me other than confuse me and bring up a lot of awful ****. And When I got home I couldn't help but just break down and sob my eyes out like a little *****. If this is what it feels like to have your heart and soul stepped on crushed and trampled and then broken in half I really understand and empathize with others and get why they say it breaks you. Because I feel pretty broken and I don't know what to do. I don't trust anything or anyone right now. My heart is pulling me back to my ex but it is also pulling me toward my friend. I mean she could have easily taken advantage of me today and yesterday but all she did was sit with me and hold me while I cried my eyes out for a good two hours.


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yeah, I went and met up with my Ex's Parents I took my friend along. I, I just I don't know what I am looking for I suppose I just need answers? I need to know what I missed or didn't see or if I saw something that wasn't there? If that makes sense I am not sure I am honestly. My ex-didn't show up and wasn't there which I suppose made things a little easier. They swear she didn't cheat and still love me as if I am their own sun and have heard that I was struggling with drinking and now some pretty severe depression. They want me to give her another chance and to sit down and talk with her and try and have an open and honesty conversation with one another. They couldn't tell me anything new or tell me why she would have aborted our child if it was truly mine and that she didn't cheat. Basically, this did nothing for me other than confuse me and bring up a lot of awful ****. And When I got home I couldn't help but just break down and sob my eyes out like a little *****. If this is what it feels like to have your heart and soul stepped on crushed and trampled and then broken in half I really understand and empathize with others and get why they say it breaks you. Because I feel pretty broken and I don't know what to do. I don't trust anything or anyone right now. My heart is pulling me back to my ex but it is also pulling me toward my friend. I mean she could have easily taken advantage of me today and yesterday but all she did was sit with me and hold me while I cried my eyes out for a good two hours.


Your friend sounds like she is a decent person. 

Did you meet with the parents with an aim for an outcome? What was the purpose to doing it when you know there is no going back to the way things were?

I don't normally do this, but dude, start paying attention to the advise people are giving you here. Force yourself in between moments of sadness/depression to look at the situation logically. 

The parents see you as a 'good catch' for their daughter. Of course they are not going to know why she aborted the baby. That would mean admitting she is a nut case! 

Hang with your friend if she is happy to oblige, but ffs don't continue contact OF ANY SORT with your ex, parents, ex's friends, dog etc. etc.

You are getting drawn down into a ****storm.


----------



## Oceania

Luminous said:


> Your friend sounds like she is a decent person.
> 
> Did you meet with the parents with an aim for an outcome? *What was the purpose* to doing it when you know there is no going back to the way things were?
> 
> *I imagine it's because he's had as long a relationship with them as he had with GF so why not? It doesn't sound as though it was a hostile meeting.*
> 
> I don't normally do this, but dude, start paying attention to the advise people are giving you here. Force yourself in between moments of sadness/depression to look at the situation logically.
> 
> *The parents see you as a 'good catch' for their daughter. *Of course they are not going to know why she aborted the baby. That would mean admitting she is a nut case!
> 
> *Really? We know that do we? Maybe they're just as torn up over this as OP is and not for the reason you say.*
> 
> Hang with your friend if she is happy to oblige, but ffs don't continue contact OF ANY SORT with your ex, parents, ex's friends, dog etc. etc.
> 
> *You are getting drawn down into a ****storm.*
> 
> *OP's already there. He's not any better. He and GF need to talk. IMO as in the manner suggested way back when.*


----------



## Blondilocks

Forget about possible cheating and forget about possible pregnancy and forget about possible abortion. Those are not provens.

Concentrate on what you know to be facts: she was deceptive about birth control and she physically assaulted you. Now, she has her family up your ass pleading her case.

Would any sane person want to marry into that? 

Stop the damn pity party and get off the friggin' merry-go-round. It stops when you say it does.


----------



## BluesPower

You know, @CmonDionne , your responses and opinions are usually measured and logical. 

But the last one, I just don't get. Why does he owe anything to this girl? Why? 

I think the parents doth protest too much about her cheating. They have said that a hundred times to them. Now of course, Ex GF could be lying to everyone, that is highly possible. 

But this entire thread is something out of the cheater's hand book, verbatim. She, out of know where wants to have unprotected sex, AFTER 12 YEARS. Then she decides to abort "Their" babe with no discussion what so ever. 

The odds that she did not cheat and get pregnant by another man are about zero. 

But lets say that she DID abort his child, again, with no discussion. You are OK with that? Regardless of how someone feels about abortion, not discussing it with your 12 partner is just wrong. 

Ok, so lets put that aside...

She assaulted him multiple times, and is a completely insane woman. How many thread has anyone said to a female victim of abuse to go back to her abuser? Don't we always say to get away from them? Isn't that the best way to handle that stuff. 

Why is it different for males, what she had a good reason for hitting him, that does not wash? 

Help me understand what he has to gain from ever talking to this woman again?


----------



## oldshirt

Should Roman Polansky have sat down and "talked" with Charles Manson to work out their differences on why his wife Sharon Tate and their unborn child was killed??

Would that have been a fruitful discussion where everyone would have walked away laughing and smiling??

This is dumb. There is no reason on God's Green Earth why the OP should ever speak to her or any of her friends or family again. 

There is nothing to say here that will have any positive impact for him. He has nothing to gain by any further contact with any of those people. 

There is no "closure" to be had here. The only closure will come from moving on and going to the next phase of his life. 

Yes it is very tragic, sad and traumatic. But there is nothing therapeutic in him seeing her or her family. It only will cause further pain, confusion and chaos.


----------



## Andy1001

I think the next card that will be played by the ex and her parents will be that she was raped.She was afraid to tell anyone and aborted the baby in case it wasn’t the op’s.
As @Blondilocks has said,let’s focus on the known facts and not the different hypotheses.
She had an abortion without discussing it with her fiancée.
She assaulted him,breaking his nose.
Either reason is enough for him to break up with her.


----------



## oldshirt

Andy1001 said:


> She had an abortion without discussing it with her fiancée.
> She assaulted him,breaking his nose.
> Either reason is enough for him to break up with her.


I'm going to take this one step further and remind everyone that we live in a free society where individuals chose their own mates and can enter into or dissolve whatever relationship they want. 

I have been dumped because I did not have a nice enough car and was not tall and good looking enough. One of my big heartbreaks was getting dumped by someone I truly loved and thought we were going to have a life together and she dumped me because I did not drink and party and she decided she wanted to be a party girl. 

And I have also ended relationships for reasons that other people could not have cared less about and would seem beyond trivial to other men. 

So yes, lying and aborting unborn children without discussion and breaking into his home and being physically abusive etc are all perfectly valid reasons to end a relationship.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

oldshirt said:


> But there is nothing therapeutic in him seeing her or her family. It only will cause further pain, confusion and chaos.


 
QFT
As proven with his breakdown after meeting her parents. The breakdown after meeting her would be exponentially worse. If he did meet with her what could she possibly say that a) he would believe (she's a proven sneak and liar) b) would be any benefit to him(she wants to shed guilt and will likely only blameshift if they met) c) that could make him think he could trust her in any way in the future. 

A meeting with her would be completely for her benefit and will reset him back to zero with what recovery he has made, and do severe mental damage to his already wounded state.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yes, I went into this with the goal of trying to figure out what really happened because I don't have proof she cheated and got pregnant by another dude. Just my gut feelings as well as what others feel probably happened. I wanted to see if her parents would have honestly told me what really happened and if they would be honest about everything that had happened but they didn't. All they did was plead their daughter's innocence and swear she has done nothing wrong. I mean it wasn't a hostile meeting at all but I suppose the reason I broke down so bad was just knowing that this is really over and knowing there is no having her back as much as I love her I don't trust her or her family and I never will. It just really hurts I didn't believe I deserved any of this. I just wanted to know for certain one way or another but I won't ever get those answers and I can see that now. This crap just sucks going from incredible depression to anger to numbness and just in one big circle. Meg and I had a talk today well she sat me down and let me know she understands what this is and that I am not in a position to offer her anything but that all she cares about is helping me feel better.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I went into this with the goal of trying to figure out what really happened because I don't have proof she cheated and got pregnant by another dude. Just my gut feelings as well as what others feel probably happened. I wanted to see if her parents would have honestly told me what really happened and if they would be honest about everything that had happened but they didn't. All they did was plead their daughter's innocence and swear she has done nothing wrong. I mean it wasn't a hostile meeting at all but I suppose the reason I broke down so bad was just knowing that this is really over and knowing there is no having her back as much as I love her I don't trust her or her family and I never will. It just really hurts I didn't believe I deserved any of this. I just wanted to know for certain one way or another but I won't ever get those answers and I can see that now. This crap just sucks going from incredible depression to anger to numbness and just in one big circle. Meg and I had a talk today well she sat me down and let me know she understands what this is and that I am not in a position to offer her anything but that all she cares about is helping me feel better.


The thing is buddy, that no, you did not deserve any of this. Most of us did not deserve the bad things that happened to us. 

But I have to understand what part of she killed your baby, do you just not get? Are you OK with that? 

Let's say that she did not cheat, and she just killed your child and assaulted you. Is that part ok. Lets say that you are the one that caused her to freak out. Are you ok with that? Do you believe that you caused any of this? 

Because if you do you are a fool. Bad people do bad things. Bad things happen to good people, like you. 

Brother, she is crazy and I think she always has been. I think she cheated and aborted another mans baby. 

You have got to cut her out of your life for the rest of your life... FOR YOUR OWN GOOD...


----------



## Decorum

BluesPower said:


> The thing is buddy, that no, you did not deserve any of this. Most of us did not deserve the bad things that happened to us.
> 
> But I have to understand what part of she killed your baby, do you just not get? Are you OK with that?
> 
> Let's say that she did not cheat, and she just killed your child and assaulted you. Is that part ok. Lets say that you are the one that caused her to freak out. Are you ok with that? Do you believe that you caused any of this?
> 
> Because if you do you are a fool. Bad people do bad things. Bad things happen to good people, like you.
> 
> Brother, she is crazy and I think she always has been. I think she cheated and aborted another mans baby.
> 
> You have got to cut her out of your life for the rest of your life... FOR YOUR OWN GOOD...


LAAE,
These questions cross my mind as well.

I wonder if you have no intention of ever getting back wlth her, but are still conflicted about a wrongful accusation. 

Something you would feel conflicted about with any other person, whether they were a former romantic interest or not.

The problem is you had to communicate your concerns. That's what people do.

But she did not trust you enough to include you, so in acting unilaterally she broke faith with you.

Trust and communication broke down. You cant move forward without them.

Even with the most "Hallmarkean" spin, i.e. "She got pregnant by you but did not want to force you into marriage, so she aborted, thereby giving you a free choice to move forward with her or not". 

Of course the "or not" has not gone so well if that were her intent.

This rationale is too convoluted for real life, but fits the script for a Hallmark movie, lol.

Maybe she just did not want to be a mom this young.

She made her choice, left no room to alleviate numerous kinds of doubts, and chose this for you.

I have 4 children I treasure (23-30 yrs old), I can't imagine how I would feel if the woman I love had aborted one of them.

It is almost like as men we are not allowed to have feelings about a woman aborting "our" baby. As long as it is a "part" of her body, we have no say and no right to feel. 

As if to say, until they are born, abortion is no different than picking your nose, and flicking the booger. 

Truth be told I would not marry a woman who picked her nose, and flicked her boogers.

She made her choice, you made yours.

Let her off the hook if you want, tell her parents you dont know what happened. You expressed your concern but you won't assume it going forwards, but what you do know has ended the relationship, and there is no going back.

Unless you have not closed that door yet?

Or possibly you are still working to the point where you can emotionally let it go.

It is still very fresh.


----------



## Decorum

Double post.


----------



## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yeah, I went and met up with my Ex's Parents I took my friend along. I, I just I don't know what I am looking for I suppose I just need answers? I need to know what I missed or didn't see or if I saw something that wasn't there? If that makes sense I am not sure I am honestly. My ex-didn't show up and wasn't there which I suppose made things a little easier. They swear she didn't cheat and still love me as if I am their own sun and have heard that I was struggling with drinking and now some pretty severe depression. They want me to give her another chance and to sit down and talk with her and try and have an open and honesty conversation with one another. They couldn't tell me anything new or tell me why she would have aborted our child if it was truly mine and that she didn't cheat. Basically, this did nothing for me other than confuse me and bring up a lot of awful ****. And When I got home I couldn't help but just break down and sob my eyes out like a little *****. If this is what it feels like to have your heart and soul stepped on crushed and trampled and then broken in half I really understand and empathize with others and get why they say it breaks you. Because I feel pretty broken and I don't know what to do. I don't trust anything or anyone right now. My heart is pulling me back to my ex but it is also pulling me toward my friend. I mean she could have easily taken advantage of me today and yesterday but all she did was sit with me and hold me while I cried my eyes out for a good two hours.


Of course it did nothing. You have to accept that it is over and move on. That's the only way you will get better. There is no going back you are both totally different people. Man you got to accept that she is not your path to happiness, family or any of that. You need to believe and start working toward a new life and finding someone else. But you won't be able to do that if you keep picking at the wound by doing things like going to talk to her parents. There is not answer that is going to make it acceptable or make the pain go away. The only way to truly get better is to push through the pain like chemo and move on with your life. In about a year you will feel much better and every day gets a little easier. But as long as you keep picking at the wound it's like starting all over. 

Accept it, that part of your life is over. Doesn't mean your LIFE is over. You can have just as happy a life. Most people have a story like this, we all move on and have good lives. You can too. But you have to have the courage and discipline to do it.


----------



## [email protected]

Loyalty, I'm not with you on this one, and that's something I don't often do. Yes, she committed a humongous assault against you by having the abortion. But, if I were betting, I'd bet that her hormones went wild and caused her to do something rash. Moreover, she is probably out of her mind with anguish about your relationship, and remember, she can't prove something that didn't happen. First time in 12 years she went off the rails? And although abortion might be against your values, you might give her some leeway on this. As I understand it, she's never given you cause to question her until this thing happened.
You get dinged here. I hate to say it, be you sound like a petulant, near-alcoholic and whiner to boot.
Give her another chance.


----------



## Diana7

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I went into this with the goal of trying to figure out what really happened because I don't have proof she cheated and got pregnant by another dude. Just my gut feelings as well as what others feel probably happened. I wanted to see if her parents would have honestly told me what really happened and if they would be honest about everything that had happened but they didn't. All they did was plead their daughter's innocence and swear she has done nothing wrong. I mean it wasn't a hostile meeting at all but I suppose the reason I broke down so bad was just knowing that this is really over and knowing there is no having her back as much as I love her I don't trust her or her family and I never will. It just really hurts I didn't believe I deserved any of this. I just wanted to know for certain one way or another but I won't ever get those answers and I can see that now. This crap just sucks going from incredible depression to anger to numbness and just in one big circle. Meg and I had a talk today well she sat me down and let me know she understands what this is and that I am not in a position to offer her anything but that all she cares about is helping me feel better.


How can they possibly say she did nothing wrong? She either cheated and aborted his baby, or she aborted your baby with out any consultation with you. She is also violent and abusive. How can all that be 'nothing wrong'.


----------



## Diana7

[email protected] said:


> Loyalty, I'm not with you on this one, and that's something I don't often do. Yes, she committed a humongous assault against you by having the abortion. But, if I were betting, I'd bet that her hormones went wild and caused her to do something rash. Moreover, she is probably out of her mind with anguish about your relationship, and remember, she can't prove something that didn't happen. First time in 12 years she went off the rails? And although abortion might be against your values, you might give her some leeway on this. As I understand it, she's never given you cause to question her until this thing happened.
> You get dinged here. I hate to say it, be you sound like a petulant, near-alcoholic and whiner to boot.
> Give her another chance.


So the fact that she violently abused him means nothing either? Wow, what she has done is serious and awful stuff.


----------



## Oceania

[email protected] said:


> Loyalty, I'm not with you on this one, and that's something I don't often do. Yes, she committed a humongous assault against you by having the abortion. But, if I were betting, I'd bet that her hormones went wild and caused her to do something rash. Moreover, she is probably out of her mind with anguish about your relationship, and remember, she can't prove something that didn't happen. First time in 12 years she went off the rails? And although abortion might be against your values, you might give her some leeway on this. *As I understand it, she's never given you cause to question her until this thing happened.*
> You get dinged here. I hate to say it, be you sound like a petulant, near-alcoholic and whiner to boot.
> Give her another chance.


Look OP it just seems to me that the way you say it happened makes me ask 'are you in any way responsible for any for this?' Is this why you are struggling so badly? Because if that's the case I can only imagine where she must be at.

If it's cheater cheater pumpkin eater then it's cut and dried isn't it?

But if there's any slight chance that you have doubts then IMO you need to address not only yours but eventually her as well. And again I will point back to the suggestion of IC and counselling for you both. I'm not saying this for you to get back together because as you say it's 'loyalty above all else' so there's no chance of that. What though did loyalty mean to her? Counselling will help you both find clarity and understanding so you can both move on.

@BluesPower (I hope I did that right) I don't always see ''cheater'' nor do I necessarily think that just dropping someone and moving on straight away is always in the best interest for every OP. Yes yes I can hear all the reasons why people advise this course of action ... but I'm just not getting that here yet.

If it is as you say then I bow to your wisdom but in the meantime with respect this is IMO.


----------



## Diana7

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I went into this with the goal of trying to figure out what really happened because I don't have proof she cheated and got pregnant by another dude. Just my gut feelings as well as what others feel probably happened. I wanted to see if her parents would have honestly told me what really happened and if they would be honest about everything that had happened but they didn't. All they did was plead their daughter's innocence and swear she has done nothing wrong. I mean it wasn't a hostile meeting at all but I suppose the reason I broke down so bad was just knowing that this is really over and knowing there is no having her back as much as I love her I don't trust her or her family and I never will. It just really hurts I didn't believe I deserved any of this. I just wanted to know for certain one way or another but I won't ever get those answers and I can see that now. This crap just sucks going from incredible depression to anger to numbness and just in one big circle. Meg and I had a talk today well she sat me down and let me know she understands what this is and that I am not in a position to offer her anything but that all she cares about is helping me feel better.


Meg may help you to feel better for short periods of time but that isn't the answer. Many of us here have been though even worse things, you just have to live one day at a time and get though them. Time will help, there are no short cuts. Meg may fall in love with you, and you just aren't ready for anything like that, don't play with her feelings and emotions.


----------



## BluesPower

CmonDionne said:


> @BluesPower (I hope I did that right) I don't always see ''cheater'' nor do I necessarily think that just dropping someone and moving on straight away is always in the best interest for every OP. Yes yes I can hear all the reasons why people advise this course of action ... but I'm just not getting that here yet.
> 
> If it is as you say then I bow to your wisdom but in the meantime with respect this is IMO.


This is where I OFTEN have problems with women's point of view... If this was a woman and her BF beat her up, would you still say give him a chance? I would not, I am equal opportunity on that stuff. 

She is nuts and abusive. That right there is reason enough to not EVER SPEAK to her again. 

Now, none of us know if she cheated and aborted another man's baby. I lean that way because I have never, ever, in my 54 years have heard of a woman, in a 12 year relationship, planning to get married, abort her BF's child. 

I am not saying that it has never happened, I am just saying that THIS is the first time that I have heard of it. 

So whether she cheated or not, whether she aborted his child or not, either way that actually went, is clear and obvious reason to end the relationship. 

Add to that the abuse, and no, just no. 

This man NEEDS to let any thought of this woman go, and start a new life. Hell, she might kill him if he goes back to her...


----------



## Blondilocks

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, I went into this with the goal of trying to figure out what really happened because I don't have proof she cheated and got pregnant by another dude. Just my gut feelings as well as what others feel probably happened. I wanted to see if her parents would have honestly told me what really happened and if they would be honest about everything that had happened but they didn't. All they did was plead their daughter's innocence and swear she has done nothing wrong. I mean it wasn't a hostile meeting at all but I suppose the reason I broke down so bad was just knowing that this is really over and knowing there is no having her back as much as I love her I don't trust her or her family and I never will. It just really hurts *I didn't believe I deserved *any of this. I just wanted to know for certain one way or another but I won't ever get those answers and I can see that now. This crap just sucks going from incredible depression to anger to numbness and just in one big circle. Meg and I had a talk today well she sat me down and let me know she understands what this is and that I am not in a position to offer her anything but that all she cares about is helping me feel better.


No one would deserve this. The universe didn't single you out to be crapped on. There was no cosmic intervention to screw with you.

This is all on your ex. Now, let's examine why you two were not married. Two people who love one another are not going to wait 12 years to get married. They just aren't. You weren't waiting 'til you were through with college, 'til your careers stabilized, 'til you had the money for a dream wedding or for her to fit into a size 2 wedding gown. Look for the real reason why you didn't put a ring on her finger years ago.


----------



## Diana7

BluesPower said:


> This is where I OFTEN have problems with women's point of view... If this was a woman and her BF beat her up, would you still say give him a chance? I would not, I am equal opportunity on that stuff.
> 
> She is nuts and abusive. That right there is reason enough to not EVER SPEAK to her again.
> 
> Now, none of us know if she cheated and aborted another man's baby. I lean that way because I have never, ever, in my 54 years have heard of a woman, in a 12 year relationship, planning to get married, abort her BF's child.
> 
> I am not saying that it has never happened, I am just saying that THIS is the first time that I have heard of it.
> 
> So whether she cheated or not, whether she aborted his child or not, either way that actually went, is clear and obvious reason to end the relationship.
> 
> Add to that the abuse, and no, just no.
> 
> This man NEEDS to let any thought of this woman go, and start a new life. Hell, she might kill him if he goes back to her...


I am a woman but I TOTALLY agree with you. How many of us here would advise our own daughter to stay with a man who had broken her nose? Who was a violent abuser? That with the fact that she either cheated or killed his child without even telling him proves clearly that this woman is TERRIBLE wife and mum material and he may even be in danger of far more violence. As may any future children they had. 
There are MASSIVE red flags with this lady, and the fact that her parents can't see she did anything wrong shows that they too are living in cloud cuckoo land. 

I think the op has had a very lucky escape, unlike the poor baby. :crying:


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

We didn't get married for a variety of reasons, School didn't have the money and we collectively made that decision to wait. I mean that is what she wanted not to mention other then the symbolism it wouldn't change much in the relationship. I mean It wasn't just that thinking back on it honestly. She asked me to marry her more than once but I was young and just scared of marriage at the time. Just looking back I wonder if I hadn't had a commitment problem if this could have been avoided completely. But she said she understood and said nothing would change either way. So I just don't know or understand. But this just hurts and I am having a lot of self-doubts about all of it and I probably shouldn't but they are there.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Diana7 said:


> Meg may help you to feel better for short periods of time but that isn't the answer. Many of us here have been though even worse things, you just have to live one day at a time and get though them. Time will help, there are no short cuts. Meg may fall in love with you, and you just aren't ready for anything like that, don't play with her feelings and emotions.


I don't feel like I am playing with her feelings or emotions, I posted a bit ago that, that's what I was worried about and I had sat her down and explained I can't offer her anything right now. It just isn't possible but she said she understood that and wanted to stick around and try and help.


----------



## Decorum

BluesPower said:


> This is where I OFTEN have problems with women's point of view... If this was a woman and her BF beat her up, would you still say give him a chance? I would not, I am equal opportunity on that stuff.
> 
> She is nuts and abusive. That right there is reason enough to not EVER SPEAK to her again.
> 
> Now, none of us know if she cheated and aborted another man's baby. I lean that way because I have never, ever, in my 54 years have heard of a woman, in a 12 year relationship, planning to get married, abort her BF's child.
> 
> I am not saying that it has never happened, I am just saying that THIS is the first time that I have heard of it.
> 
> So whether she cheated or not, whether she aborted his child or not, either way that actually went, is clear and obvious reason to end the relationship.
> 
> Add to that the abuse, and no, just no.
> 
> This man NEEDS to let any thought of this woman go, and start a new life. Hell, she might kill him if he goes back to her...


I so agree with this, and I think if he had a little more life experience he would see it more clearly.

He seems very much "in his own head", and the problem with that is there is no one who can call him out on unhealthy thought processes, like the circle of regret/if only cycle.

I am sure his friend is supportive but it is not clear to me he is getting the kind of professional help he needs.

And I say that as someone who has been helped by individual counseling.


----------



## sunsetmist

i can't disagree with @[email protected] enough, but I think that is what you want to hear.

You seem stuck, holding on to what you thought your relationship was. Your love for her hasn't dealt with/absorbed her betrayal and violence. You are grieving--read about this.

You are second guessing the fact that you had not already married--thinking that would have solved this problem. Having been together since high school, you really know no other relationship and have NOTHING to compare this to. I'm feeling that maybe she has usually been the stronger person since you've been together.

Don't let another strong woman--Meg--become your new guiding light. Work on you for a while, build up your confidence physically and emotionally. Time is your friend.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yes, she was the stronger one always had been. When I was a Jr in high school and wrecked my Sportbike in a series of really bad decisions. But I ended up in the hospital for a solid month or two and then had to have physical therapy and relearn how to walk. I was ready to give up on life then and she fought for me and made me keep fighting and helped me every step of the way and wouldn't let me quit even when I wanted to. So I just let her keep being the strong one. I stopped going to my therapist because she wasn't helping me at least it didn't feel like it. But I am still taking the meds at least for now anyway. The only thing that seems to be remotely helping me is Meg and I probably am becoming dependent upon her.


----------



## Oceania

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, she was the stronger one always had been. When I was a Jr in high school and wrecked my Sportbike in a series of really bad decisions. But I ended up in the hospital for a solid month or two and then had to have physical therapy and relearn how to walk. I was ready to give up on life then and she fought for me and made me keep fighting and helped me every step of the way and wouldn't let me quit even when I wanted to. So I just let her keep being the strong one. I stopped going to my therapist because she wasn't helping me at least it didn't feel like it. But I am still taking the meds at least for now anyway. The only thing that seems to be remotely helping me is Meg and I probably am becoming dependent upon her.


OP you're beginning to sound like your very own pity party on steroids. And you're also beginning to sound like a bit of a manipulator.

So in summary I hope you go back into IC to sort your sh!t out. I also hope GF goes into IC to address her self-esteem issues because she deserves better. 

In no way do I support violence. Your nose was broken because she slammed the door on you? She also gave you a real hard slap? And she screamed and yelled at you? She sounds to me like someone actually screaming for help. And if that's the case then that is just not on because then the limelight is no longer focussed on you.

I would suggest you grow up and man up. No woman wants to play mother to a man-child.

And as for your friend ... omg you are a piece of work.


----------



## Andy1001

CmonDionne said:


> OP you're beginning to sound like your very own pity party on steroids. And you're also beginning to sound like a bit of a manipulator.
> 
> So in summary I hope you go back into IC to sort your sh!t out. I also hope GF goes into IC to address her self-esteem issues because she deserves better.
> 
> In no way do I support violence. Your nose was broken because she slammed the door on you? She also gave you a real hard slap? And she screamed and yelled at you? She sounds to me like someone actually screaming for help. And if that's the case then that is just not on because then the limelight is no longer focussed on you.
> 
> I would suggest you grow up and man up. No woman wants to play mother to a man-child.
> 
> And as for your friend ... omg you are a piece of work.


Are you a lawyer by any chance? Anyone that can say an act of violence is a cry for help is self delusional in the extreme.What is your premise here? You are trying to chip away at the op’s self belief and his self esteem.
You then try and justify your bs by saying “it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it”.
You are entitled to your opinion,just as almost everyone else on the thread is entitled to think your talking through your ass.
For what it’s worth I think it’s you that are a piece of work.


----------



## Blondilocks

CmonDionne said:


> OP you're beginning to sound like your very own pity party on steroids. And you're also beginning to sound like a bit of a manipulator.
> 
> So in summary I hope you go back into IC to sort your sh!t out. I also hope GF goes into IC to address her self-esteem issues because she deserves better.
> 
> In no way do I support violence. Your nose was broken because she slammed the door on you? She also gave you a real hard slap? And she screamed and yelled at you? She sounds to me like someone actually screaming for help. And if that's the case then that is just not on because then the limelight is no longer focussed on you.
> 
> I would suggest you grow up and man up. No woman wants to play mother to a man-child.
> 
> And as for your friend ... omg you are a piece of work.


You need to reread post 154 and get the story straight. Do you still think she was screaming for help?


----------



## Blondilocks

OP, what is the status of her being arrested and jailed? Is it possible that if you patched things up with her that it would affect the outcome of her arrest? If so, that may be why her parents were intervening on her behalf.


----------



## Oceania

Andy1001 said:


> Are you a lawyer by any chance? Anyone that can say an act of violence is a cry for help is self delusional in the extreme.What is your premise here? You are trying to chip away at the op’s self belief and his self esteem.
> You then try and justify your bs by saying “it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it”.
> You are entitled to your opinion,just as almost everyone else on the thread is entitled to think your talking through your ass.
> For what it’s worth I think it’s you that are a piece of work.


Just a moment please while I dust off my violin...


----------



## Decorum

Andy1001 said:


> Are you a lawyer by any chance? Anyone that can say an act of violence is a cry for help is self delusional in the extreme.





Blondilocks said:


> You need to reread post 154 and get the story straight. Do you still think she was screaming for help?





Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> and then I guess got so angry at me for her actions that she also punched and scratched me? So I have a black eye from her and my nose was/is broken.





CmonDionne said:


> Just a moment please while I dust off my violin...


So CD, now we know you can play fast and loose, what else is in your repertoire.


----------



## Andy1001

CmonDionne said:


> Just a moment please while I dust off my violin...


Well if you are a lawyer it’s much more likely to be a fiddle.


----------



## Oceania

Andy1001 said:


> Well if you are a lawyer it’s much more likely to be a fiddle.


You're starting to look like someone who needs to have the last word.

In the interest of time this 'lawyer' must suit up and dash so bye.


----------



## Andy1001

CmonDionne said:


> You're starting to look like someone who needs to have the last word.
> 
> In the interest of time this 'lawyer' must suit up and dash so bye.


Bye Bye then.
Be careful though,wouldn’t want that chip on your shoulder to catch on anything.


----------



## Oceania

Andy1001 said:


> Bye Bye then.
> Be careful though,wouldn’t want that chip on your shoulder to catch on anything.


Just as I thought ... about the last word that is.


----------



## Andy1001

CmonDionne said:


> Just as I thought ... about the last word that is.


Not so much wanting to have the last word.
More wanting to see if your ego would let you walk away.
It didn’t.
Surprise!!!


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

CmonDionne said:


> OP you're beginning to sound like your very own pity party on steroids. And you're also beginning to sound like a bit of a manipulator.
> 
> So in summary I hope you go back into IC to sort your sh!t out. I also hope GF goes into IC to address her self-esteem issues because she deserves better.
> 
> In no way do I support violence. Your nose was broken because she slammed the door on you? She also gave you a real hard slap? And she screamed and yelled at you? She sounds to me like someone actually screaming for help. And if that's the case then that is just not on because then the limelight is no longer focussed on you.
> 
> I would suggest you grow up and man up. No woman wants to play mother to a man-child.
> 
> And as for your friend ... omg you are a piece of work.


Not quite sure what I did to set you off on me? How am I a Manipulator? So her violence she took out on me was a cry for help? Also not sure how I am a man-child because she helped me out and fought for me after a bad wreck in high school I am suddenly a man-child? And how am I a piece of work with regards to my friend? Honestly not sure why I deserved or earned that tirade.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Anyone else wanna have a go at me? Not like I don't feel absolutely terrible already.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Anyone else wanna have a go at me? Not like I don't feel absolutely terrible already.


Pay no heed my friend.
The longer you are on tam you will find there is always someone wanting to play devils advocate,in other words go against everyone else’s opinion.
And then you have the misandrists who will always take the females side no matter how much she may have put her partner through.
Hold your head up,you will get through this.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Anyone else wanna have a go at me? Not like I don't feel absolutely terrible already.


You need to ignore that last one. And no, I think everyone here is on your side. 

You are doing some type of therapy though, right. You are kind of stuck and it seems to me that you are worrying about some things that you should not. 

Example, as much as this hurts, and we all know that it does, YOU did not cause this. And, brother you are not responsible for fixing it, there is nothing to fix. All you can do is work to get over it. 

And please take everyone's advice here, DO NOT TALK TO HER PARENTS, DO NOT TALK TO HER. And if you have not already, DO NOT LET HER OFF OF THE ASSULT CHARGES, let the courts do their work...


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

No I stopped Therapy like I said It wasn't helping at all.

And no even if my ex and I reconciled it wouldn't have any bearing on the charges and her court case. Domestic abuse cases are decided by my states attorney and I don't have any say so what so ever. She is out of jail now and I guess her court appearance is next month sometime but she has been ordered to stay away from me anyways. She hasn't contacted me in awhile just her parents whom I still love like my own parents but I asked them when we met last week if they would just please leave me alone for awhile and to stop contacting me as I need to be able to work through this and even talking to them makes my depression worse. I told Meg she should leave today though I suppose that one poster is right I am a piece of work when it comes to that. Shouldn't of even allowed that to start and should have put a stop to it from the get go. She cried and refused to leave but I Told her she really needed to go that I can't offer her anything right now while I am in this frame of mind and trying to deal with this. She was the only thing truly bringing me some happiness and making me feel less numb about the world. She made me swear if I start feeling real bad to call her right away. I just hope I didn't ruin a friendship I wasn't trying to upset her just felt like this wasn't the best of ideas.


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No I stopped Therapy like I said It wasn't helping at all.


Please listen to what I have to say. There are tons of crummy therapists out there. However, there are also great therapists. You probably found one that isn't a good match for you. To begin with, the issues you are dealing with won't go away in a few weeks. I'm only giving you my perspective, but it sounds like you were attached to your ex for so long that you are floundering on your own. You need to examine your family of origin and how you fit into the scheme of things growing up. Then you need to figure out what role you played in staying with a woman who ultimately physically assaulted you. Yes, you are grieving. But the methods you are using to ease the grief aren't working nor are they conducive to real healing.



Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> … talking to them makes my depression worse. ...Meg ...was the only thing truly bringing me some happiness and making me feel less numb about the world.


To begin with, you are trying to run away from yourself and your grief. First you went out on a drunken bender with your buddies. That didn't work. The you slept with Meg. That didn't work either. You also allow - and I sincerely mean ALLOW - other people to dictate how you feel. You don't act, you react. Your ex's parents "made" your depression worse. Meg "made" you happy. Sorry, but nobody has the power to control your feelings. You, and you alone, own that.

Find a good therapist. You truly need to be in long-term counseling for this. You need to understand that you have abdicated your emotions and allowed other people to determine what and how you should feel. This is not healthy. Not. One. Bit.

And stay on the antidepressant med. Find a good psychiatrist who can assess what is the right prescription for you. What you are on might not be what you need. And, yes, you sound clinically depressed. Why? Because depressed people consistently seek external validation for their worth. They don't look inwards. The thing is, happiness IS an "inside job."


----------



## sunsetmist

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, she was the stronger one always had been. When I was a Jr in high school and wrecked my Sportbike in a series of really bad decisions. But I ended up in the hospital for a solid month or two and then had to have physical therapy and relearn how to walk. I was ready to give up on life then and she fought for me and made me keep fighting and helped me every step of the way and wouldn't let me quit even when I wanted to. So I just let her keep being the strong one. I stopped going to my therapist because she wasn't helping me at least it didn't feel like it. But I am still taking the meds at least for now anyway. The only thing that seems to be remotely helping me is Meg and I probably am becoming dependent upon her.


Glad you sent Meg away. Her behavior at that time is indicative of her attachment to you. You need to develop inner strength on your own.

From a junior in high school you have felt a debt of gratitude to ex--to you, by the power of her will, she 'saved your life.' Hence you've depended on her--almost as a mother--and haven't developed the maturity one would expect at this age. It took you a long time to get where you are and it will take a while and work by you to grow into the person you should be.

Therapy will require you to work--alone--daunting for you. The time between sessions is as important as what happens in a session. You're not used to this kind of pressure, but it will be a win in many ways if you consistently make the effort.


----------



## Oceania

Andy1001 said:


> Not so much wanting to have the last word.
> More wanting to see if your ego would let you walk away.
> It didn’t.
> Surprise!!!


Oh now I have an ego as well as a chip on my shoulder? Well just as soon as you move that big ole head of yours out of the doorway I just might knock that chip off my shoulder. And as for ego? You sooo have an ego!


----------



## Andy1001

CmonDionne said:


> Oh now I have an ego as well as a chip on my shoulder? Well just as soon as you move that big ole head of yours out of the doorway I just might knock that chip off my shoulder. And as for ego? You sooo have an ego!


Are you hitting on me?


----------



## Luminous

Andy1001 said:


> Are you hitting on me?


Better hurry up, she only has till Friday!


----------



## Oceania

Andy1001 said:


> Are you hitting on me?


OMG this was more bother than it was worth! Where the hell did you get that from?

Thanks for the laugh:grin2:


----------



## Rubix Cubed

CmonDionne said:


> OMG this was more bother than it was worth! Where the hell did you get that from?
> 
> Thanks for the laugh:grin2:


 OMG, Like, it's so obvious you, like, literally like him, totally. Like, his big head and your, like, chip would be literally on fleek. I know Right?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Prodigal said:


> Please listen to what I have to say. There are tons of crummy therapists out there. However, there are also great therapists. You probably found one that isn't a good match for you. To begin with, the issues you are dealing with won't go away in a few weeks. I'm only giving you my perspective, but it sounds like you were attached to your ex for so long that you are floundering on your own. You need to examine your family of origin and how you fit into the scheme of things growing up. Then you need to figure out what role you played in staying with a woman who ultimately physically assaulted you. Yes, you are grieving. But the methods you are using to ease the grief aren't working nor are they conducive to real healing.
> 
> 
> 
> To begin with, you are trying to run away from yourself and your grief. First you went out on a drunken bender with your buddies. That didn't work. The you slept with Meg. That didn't work either. You also allow - and I sincerely mean ALLOW - other people to dictate how you feel. You don't act, you react. Your ex's parents "made" your depression worse. Meg "made" you happy. Sorry, but nobody has the power to control your feelings. You, and you alone, own that.
> 
> Find a good therapist. You truly need to be in long-term counseling for this. You need to understand that you have abdicated your emotions and allowed other people to determine what and how you should feel. This is not healthy. Not. One. Bit.
> 
> And stay on the antidepressant med. Find a good psychiatrist who can assess what is the right prescription for you. What you are on might not be what you need. And, yes, you sound clinically depressed. Why? Because depressed people consistently seek external validation for their worth. They don't look inwards. The thing is, happiness IS an "inside job."


I mean I liked the thearpiest that I had it just didn't feel like she was helping. And I haven't stopped the meds and I am seeing a pyshicatirst but so far the meds don't seem to be making me feel any better or worse. Just more emotional, If that makes any sense honestly. I slept with meg because it made me feel less mad and angry and depressed and like I said it might not have been a long term fix but it did help for a short while. I don't know what I am gonna do about her she keeps calling and I know she wants more but I have told her I can't give her more right now.


----------



## sunsetmist

Don't let Meg wear you down. It's been what a little over two months of hell since your 12 year relationship ended. It is selfish and totally unrealistic for her to expect you to want a relationship with her. You were truthful with her, but she didn't respect your boundaries. Seems to me like she is trying to take advantage of you--don't get her pregnant.


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean I liked the thearpiest that I had it just didn't feel like she was helping. And I haven't stopped the meds and I am seeing a pyshicatirst but so far the meds don't seem to be making me feel any better or worse. Just more emotional, If that makes any sense honestly. I slept with meg because it made me feel less mad and angry and depressed and like I said it might not have been a long term fix but it did help for a short while. I don't know what I am gonna do about her she keeps calling and I know she wants more but I have told her I can't give her more right now.


Okay, you quoted my entire response so now I'm going to quote yours. From your response, it seems obvious that you are mired/stuck in your thinking. *What do you mean when you say the therapist wasn't "helping"? What were your expectations for therapy? How many sessions did you attend before you decided it wasn't helping?*

I suggested you see your psychiatrist and tell him/her you don't feel the medication is working. Doctors expect their patients to communicate with them. If you feel the medication isn't working, you NEED to tell your doctor. *When was the last time you met with your doctor? Have you called him/her to let him/her know the medication doesn't seem to be working? ** How long have you been taking this medication?*

I'd really appreciate it if you would *respond to the questions I have bolded*. Why? Because your response above to me was evasive. I realize you are feeling really down, but I'd sure appreciate it if you muster a direct response to my direct questions.


----------



## Robbie1234

CmonDionne said:


> OMG this was more bother than it was worth! Where the hell did you get that from?
> 
> Thanks for the laugh:grin2:


Andy is pulling your leg and you keep going back for more. Lol.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Prodigal said:


> Okay, you quoted my entire response so now I'm going to quote yours. From your response, it seems obvious that you are mired/stuck in your thinking. *What do you mean when you say the therapist wasn't "helping"? What were your expectations for therapy? How many sessions did you attend before you decided it wasn't helping?*
> 
> I suggested you see your psychiatrist and tell him/her you don't feel the medication is working. Doctors expect their patients to communicate with them. If you feel the medication isn't working, you NEED to tell your doctor. *When was the last time you met with your doctor? Have you called him/her to let him/her know the medication doesn't seem to be working? ** How long have you been taking this medication?*
> 
> I'd really appreciate it if you would *respond to the questions I have bolded*. Why? Because your response above to me was evasive. I realize you are feeling really down, but I'd sure appreciate it if you muster a direct response to my direct questions.


My expectations were for it to help guide me through these issues and give me some kind of answers for what I am dealing with and how to better deal with them without self-imploding like I am. She just told me what I was feeling was normal and that it would take time to get over this. I attended about 10 sessions and then quit because I just didn't feel it was working out what so ever and didn't wanna waste her time and mine.

Last time I met with my psychiatrist was this past Monday and I told him that these meds were not working and that if anything they were making me feel worse. I have been taking these meds for a good month it feels like maybe a little longer I am unsure. They told me to keep taking the meds and we would reevaluate in another month but if I started to feel like I would harm myself to go straight to the ER and then have the ER staff contact the office.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

sunsetmist said:


> Don't let Meg wear you down. It's been what a little over two months of hell since your 12 year relationship ended. It is selfish and totally unrealistic for her to expect you to want a relationship with her. You were truthful with her, but she didn't respect your boundaries. Seems to me like she is trying to take advantage of you--don't get her pregnant.


I am not trying to get anyone pregnant but all the times we slept together we didn't use protection that was more her idea than anything else. I do care for her because we have been friends all of our lives. But she is just wanting to talk to me all the time and wants me to let her come back over.


----------



## sunsetmist

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am not trying to get anyone pregnant but all the times we slept together we didn't use protection that was more her idea than anything else. I do care for her because we have been friends all of our lives. But she is just wanting to talk to me all the time and wants me to let her come back over.


I want to shake you sometimes. Don't YOU have an idea about contraception that might make your life less perilous? Do you care for her as longtime frenemy or determined seductress? To me, she is NOT a true friend and is looking out for herself.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> No I stopped Therapy like I said It wasn't helping at all.
> 
> And no even if my ex and I reconciled it wouldn't have any bearing on the charges and her court case. Domestic abuse cases are decided by my states attorney and I don't have any say so what so ever. She is out of jail now and I guess her court appearance is next month sometime but she has been ordered to stay away from me anyways. She hasn't contacted me in awhile just her parents whom I still love like my own parents but I asked them when we met last week if they would just please leave me alone for awhile and to stop contacting me as I need to be able to work through this and even talking to them makes my depression worse. I told Meg she should leave today though I suppose that one poster is right I am a piece of work when it comes to that. Shouldn't of even allowed that to start and should have put a stop to it from the get go. She cried and refused to leave but I Told her she really needed to go that I can't offer her anything right now while I am in this frame of mind and trying to deal with this. She was the only thing truly bringing me some happiness and making me feel less numb about the world. She made me swear if I start feeling real bad to call her right away. I just hope I didn't ruin a friendship I wasn't trying to upset her just felt like this wasn't the best of ideas.


Tell us about Meg.


----------



## ABHale

Here is something that will help you if you can get your mind around it. 

You are not in love with your ex. 

You are in love with the idea of her, who you imagined she was. 

She isn’t that person is she.


----------



## ABHale

O one last thing. I really like Meg by what you have told us so far about her.


----------



## threelittlestars

You don't see what a basket case MEG is... No person in a healthy frame of mind would be sleeping with you right now, or encouraging you to go bare back. She is trying to NAIL you down. This is crazy... 

She has been a friend for a long time probably IN LOVE with you the entire relationship but just feeling like you never felt the same. Now you are vulnerable and she pounced. 

Look, i know you think she is helping you. Hell, she might also think she is helping you, but she is also USING you. For what ever purpose and you are doing the same to her. Now, that is not a terrible thing for you to use each other but she caught feelings. BIG ONES for you. You need to see that. 

You were warned long time ago not to let her get too close, now you are likely going to damage an already mentally unhealthy young woman. I get it, you are not well either. You need space from these ladies and need more bro time, counseling and family... And a fair bit of CARDIO. 

Man...Meg needs to have space as do you. 

As to the ex....WHAT THE HELL! Why are you second guessing?


----------



## notmyrealname4

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Hello all, I am new here and in need of some advice on my relationship. My Fiancee and I are both 28 *she is black and I am white* we have been together for 12 years yep since high school just beating the odds.



Why did you have to tell us this detail? It isn't pertinent to the story in any way.


If Meg really is your friend's name; maybe you should delete it out of your posts? Unless you know she wouldn't mind possibly being identified IRL.


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am not trying to get anyone pregnant but all the times we slept together we didn't use protection …


You don't want to get anyone pregnant, but YOU didn't use protection because Meg talked you into not using any. So nobody was using protection, right? Man, you are stepping off one landmine and landing on another. Why would you let her talk you into no b/c when you don't want her to get pregnant? 



Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> But she is just wanting to talk to me all the time and wants me to let her come back over.


From my perspective, one of your major problems is you give away your power to everyone else. Just as you had to cut your ex out of your life, now it's time to tell Meg to back off and let you have some breathing space. Frankly, you are a very depressed person. Depressed people do not make wise decisions. You should dump your psychiatrist. I go to a shrink for my anti-depression/anti-anxiety medication. He ALWAYS tells me to call him if I have any issues/problems with meds. You shouldn't have to suffer with what could be the wrong med for you for over a month.

If you would start taking control of your life and move beyond victim-mode, you would start to feel better. How about hitting the gym? How about just getting active by hiking, biking, joining a Meetup group? Sitting around licking your wounds is not constructive.


----------



## Cynthia

I agree with others who mentioned hitting the gym. You need to get some endorphins coursing through your system. A good workout is uplifting. I always feel better after finishing my workout. I feel stronger and more energetic.

Another thing that can make a huge difference in how you feel is what you eat. Cut back on carbohydrates and keep alcohol consumption low. Eat as many vegetables as you can, including at least one salad or green smoothie per day.

Diet and exercise has a tremendous impact on hormones, mood, and weight, all of which impact how we feel not only physically, but emotionally also.

Finally, stop dwelling on what is wrong and what has happened and start dwelling on other things. Things that are of interest to you or were before all this happened. I don't recall if you mentioned any hobbies, but engaging in a hobby would be a good start. Consider volunteering for an organization you believe in. 

Stay away from relationships with women. You are in no condition to make wise choices in that area. Meg is a grown woman and she can handle herself. She is personally responsible for doing that. I agree with someone else who said she's probably been in love with you for a long time and sees this as her chance to get with you permanently. It appears she is willing to seduce you into having a child with her to make that happen. She may love you, but she is also extremely manipulative and selfish. I recommend you steer clear of her. Her being in love with you don't make her a good choice. Her character is what matters and so far her character appears to be all about Meg and not really about what is in your best interests. 

Yes you're going to feel terrible for a while, but you don't have to feel that way all day long. There are plenty of things you can do that are uplifting and will ease your pain. The four I have listed are:
Exercise, good nutrition, directing your thoughts to positive and interesting things unrelated to your pain, and staying away from relationship with women for now.


----------



## ABHale

threelittlestars said:


> You don't see what a basket case MEG is... No person in a healthy frame of mind would be sleeping with you right now, or encouraging you to go bare back. She is trying to NAIL you down. This is crazy...
> 
> She has been a friend for a long time probably IN LOVE with you the entire relationship but just feeling like you never felt the same. Now you are vulnerable and she pounced.
> 
> Look, i know you think she is helping you. Hell, she might also think she is helping you, but she is also USING you. For what ever purpose and you are doing the same to her. Now, that is not a terrible thing for you to use each other but she caught feelings. BIG ONES for you. You need to see that.
> 
> You were warned long time ago not to let her get too close, now you are likely going to damage an already mentally unhealthy young woman. I get it, you are not well either. You need space from these ladies and need more bro time, counseling and family... And a fair bit of CARDIO.
> 
> Man...Meg needs to have space as do you.
> 
> As to the ex....WHAT THE HELL! Why are you second guessing?


I depends on how Meg has always felt for op.


----------



## ABHale

I think Meg has seen the writing on the wall and has waited for her chance with op.


----------



## Oceania

Robbie1234 said:


> Andy is pulling your leg and you keep going back for more. Lol.


Minion


----------



## Oceania

ABHale said:


> I think Meg has seen the writing on the wall and has waited for her chance with op.


She has been watching waiting and whispering for a looong time...


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

ABHale said:


> Tell us about Meg.


I mean we have been inseparable friends since we were both kids we haven't ever dated or really thought about it honestly she was in a relationship most of the times I was single and vice versa. She is a lawyer and is really successful and people have always said we would make for a great couple but she hasn't ever made a move on me until I guess now. She and I have always looked out for one another and always been there for one another when needed. She was that friend I could always count on whenever and always let me sound off to her about whatever and always gave me her honest opinions on everything. She has always been super protective of me like a big sister which I suppose is why I never thought there was anything more between us.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I usually run a mile or two every day after I get home from work as well so it isn't like I am not exercising.


----------



## threelittlestars

How has your EX felt about this (tight) long term relationship with Meg? 

Me thinks there is SO much more to this. I know you are likely ignorant but I think maybe there is a lot of emotional turmoil in these two women's lives that you have been ignorant of. 

Please give us MUCH more detail than this. Meg and your wife... you. What have the conflicts been?


----------



## Prodigal

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean we have been inseparable friends since we were both kids …


So how was your ex with this? I thought your ex and you were inseparable; or, at least, that's the impression I've gotten from what you've reported thus far. How is it possible to be inseparable from two women at the same time?



Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> She and I have always looked out for one another and always been there for one another when needed. She was that friend I could always count on whenever and always let me sound off to her about whatever and always gave me her honest opinions on everything. She has always been super protective of me like a big sister which I suppose is why I never thought there was anything more between us.


This strikes me as odd. I would assume your ex was your best friend and always there for you. As a rule, women don't like sharing their man with another woman, even if that woman is a "friend." Meg sounds like much more than a mere friend.

So what's the full story here?


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean we have been inseparable friends since we were both kids we haven't ever dated or really thought about it honestly she was in a relationship most of the times I was single and vice versa. She is a lawyer and is really successful and people have always said we would make for a great couple but she hasn't ever made a move on me until I guess now. She and I have always looked out for one another and always been there for one another when needed. She was that friend I could always count on whenever and always let me sound off to her about whatever and always gave me her honest opinions on everything. She has always been super protective of me like a big sister which I suppose is why I never thought there was anything more between us.


Heal from this. I really like Meg now and understand her actions now. This is who you should have been with from the start I believe.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

My ex-has always been cool with Meg at least she has always told me that and they haven't ever really been openly hostile with one another or ever fought at least not that I know of or that they have ever told me. I mean to tell the whole story of meg would take an incredibly long time to tell as there is so much history there we have been very close friends like I said since we were very small. I haven't ever been more than a friend with Meg and She hasn't ever said to me that it is or has ever been more and I haven't ever noticed anything out of the ordinary. My ex and I were very inseparable but we hung out with meg a lot as well I mean she was always at family BBQ's and Thanksgiving and Christmas's and New years eve parties. I don't know how I was able to balance them both but I mean from my perspective they didn't make it hard on me I mean I suppose they could have had their problems but Like I said they didn't ever fight openly. I guess I could ask her and try and figure out things but I honestly don't know if I want to know the real truth. I know meg hasn't been a fan of my ex but she didn't ever fight so I honestly don't know what to do.


----------



## Blondilocks

I doubt it would be a surprise to your ex that meg hopped into bed with you the first chance she got. Is meg the friend you took to meet the ex's parents?


----------



## notmyrealname4

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> My Fiancee and I are both 28 she is black and I am white we have been together for 12 years yep since high school just beating the odds.





notmyrealname4 said:


> Why did you have to tell us this detail? It isn't pertinent to the story in any way.




@Loyaltyaboveallelse I'm still really curious as to why you mentioned that your fiancee is black, and you are white. Because as far as I can tell, it adds no meaning or significance to your situation.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Blondilocks said:


> I doubt it would be a surprise to your ex that meg hopped into bed with you the first chance she got. Is meg the friend you took to meet the ex's parents?


Yes, I took her with me as support to meet with my ex's parents when they wanted to meet up. I didn't think anything of it other then just her wanting to be supportive and I honestly needed the support.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Loyaltyaboveallelse I'm still really curious as to why you mentioned that your fiancee is black, and you are white. Because as far as I can tell, it adds no meaning or significance to your situation.


You seem to be the only one in this entire thread giving me grief for this? I mentioned it because I felt it was important to understand the struggles we have endured together because that type of relationship where I live isn't the norm at all.


----------



## threelittlestars

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Loyaltyaboveallelse I'm still really curious as to why you mentioned that your fiancee is black, and you are white. Because as far as I can tell, it adds no meaning or significance to your situation.


Not sure if you are triggering but I can understand why it was posted. We know nothing about what country, or society he lives in. He added it to explain his situation and added the information he though pertinent. 

Don't fault him for what you think of as over sharing. 

I think this point has clearly triggered you and as you as a fellow advisor of this particular poster to stop brining it up as if he need to hop out and apologize for something.


----------



## Decorum

.


----------



## notmyrealname4

threelittlestars said:


> Not sure if you are triggering but I can understand why it was posted. We know nothing about what country, or society he lives in. He added it to explain his situation and added the information he though pertinent.
> 
> Don't fault him for what you think of as over sharing.
> 
> I think this point has clearly triggered you and as you as a fellow advisor of this particular poster to stop brining it up as if he need to hop out and apologize for something.



You post what queries that you have, and I'll do the same.

I merely asked a question because the inclusion of the racial detail seemed unnecessary. Not once has the issue of race been a factor in these goings on. Yet it was included at the beginning of the original post.

I didn't fault him. I asked a question. There's a difference.

Not triggered. And as a fellow participant of this thread, may I politely request that you do not direct my line of inquiry. I have not attacked anyone, or used profanity.

Thank you for your understanding.


----------



## notmyrealname4

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> You seem to be the only one in this entire thread giving me grief for this? I mentioned it because I felt it was important to understand the struggles we have endured together because that type of relationship where I live isn't the norm at all.



Why do you assume that I gave you "grief"? I asked a question.


I don't understand why it has anything to do with the struggles that you are having. I can well understand that in certain parts of the country/world, depending on where you live, interracial relationships can be a really fractious issue.

You've never shared what those issues are. And I would be interested in hearing what they are, if they have contributed to your current troubles in anyway.

You of course, are not required to respond. But you did come here asking for input. At any rate, thank-you for finally responding to my original question to you.


----------



## Cynthia

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> My Fiancee and I are both 28 she is black and I am white we have been together for 12 years yep since high school just beating the odds.





Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> You seem to be the only one in this entire thread giving me grief for this? I mentioned it because I felt it was important to understand the struggles we have endured together because that type of relationship where I live isn't the norm at all.


I thought it was clear why he mentioned it. Previous to this big blow out, he felt that they had “beat the odds” in staying together for so long and with the added dimension of being a bi-racial couple. In many areas couples from different racial backgrounds adds difficulty to the relationship due to outside pressures. Thankfully this is not the case everywhere, but apparently it is in other places. Where I live this isn’t really discussed because people don’t care what color you are.

The comment was made to show how he and his former fiancée had worked through difficulties and made it through. He thought they would beat all the odds and have an enduring relationship only to have this happen and be devastated by the turn she took. Other than that, the fact of their racial differences doesn’t matter to the subject of this thread.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I mentioned the race issue because I felt like what my ex and I had achieved was special because living and growing up in a small town in the south and having a long-lasting bi-racial relationship isn't common. And so I felt it was important to include for the full back story. I wasn't trying to trigger or offend anyone. Also, apologize if I seem short-tempered, I dug a little deeper into Meg and my ex's relationship and found out their had been a lot of bickering and fighting and some deep rifts there that was kept from me from everyone and so I am just really upset by this.


----------



## threelittlestars

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mentioned the race issue because I felt like what my ex and I had achieved was special because living and growing up in a small town in the south and having a long-lasting bi-racial relationship isn't common. And so I felt it was important to include for the full back story. I wasn't trying to trigger or offend anyone. Also, apologize if I seem short-tempered, I dug a little deeper into Meg and my ex's relationship and found out their had been a lot of bickering and fighting and some deep rifts there that was kept from me from everyone and so I am just really upset by this.


Like what? What bickering and fighting was kept from you. Both of them kept quiet? 

I think you are right that a bi-racial couple in the area you speak of (IS) beating the odds for as long as you did. You do not have a failed relationship over a race divide but a communication divide...


----------



## Blondilocks

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mentioned the race issue because I felt like what my ex and I had achieved was special because living and growing up in a small town in the south and having a long-lasting bi-racial relationship isn't common. And so I felt it was important to include for the full back story. I wasn't trying to trigger or offend anyone. Also, apologize if I seem short-tempered, I dug a little deeper into Meg and my ex's relationship and found out their had been a lot of bickering and fighting and some deep rifts there that was kept from me from everyone and so I am just really upset by this.


It is surprising that you never considered having two girlfriends would cause friction. I would go so far as to say that the reason you didn't feel the urge or need to marry earlier is because you had TWO women meeting your emotional needs. You were being cautioned by your friends against ex. Was meg one of those cautioning you? 

Do you have any male friends?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Blondilocks said:


> It is surprising that you never considered having two girlfriends would cause friction. I would go so far as to say that the reason you didn't feel the urge or need to marry earlier is because you had TWO women meeting your emotional needs. You were being cautioned by your friends against ex. Was meg one of those cautioning you?
> 
> Do you have any male friends?


How did I have two girlfriends? I ask out of curiosity and just amusement because I honestly do not think that is true at all. I can't have a close female friend while being in a committed relationship with my ex? Yes, meg cautioned me against my ex but that had only started recently so I don't think it had any real effect on any of my decision making. And yes I have a lot of male friends if you read back they took me to a hotel for a weekend and got me drunk trying to help me and that just caused things to go from bad to worse. I hang out with my male friends a lot it isn't like I just hung out with Meg when I wasn't with my ex 24/7. I was and still hang out with my male friends we go to College football games baseball games go fishing/boating ext.


----------



## Blondilocks

"Btw; Maybe she didnt mean two literal girlfriends, but one ligit, and one quasi (functionally the same absent the title). This would be another *well placed crass sarcasm*."

Wrong. Don't give up your day job.

OP, you always viewed meg as just a friend. Apparently, because (according to your post 318) the timing was always off for the two of you to become a couple. It is obvious that meg desired more and waited in the wings 'til the timing was right. She insisted on moving in, took the relationship sexual and refused to leave when asked. Ex was your official girlfriend and meg was the platonic girlfriend in waiting.

If you don't wind up with meg, be prepared for blow-back when your next love interest learns that meg wasn't always 'just a friend' because you have proved she wasn't. You have given up the right to claim meg was just a friend because friends don't have sex with friends.

I hope this post also amuses you. Enjoy your life.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mentioned the race issue because I felt like what my ex and I had achieved was special because living and growing up in a small town in the south and having a long-lasting bi-racial relationship isn't common. And so I felt it was important to include for the full back story. I wasn't trying to trigger or offend anyone. Also, apologize if I seem short-tempered, I dug a little deeper into Meg and my ex's relationship and found out their had been a lot of bickering and fighting and some deep rifts there that was kept from me from everyone and so I am just really upset by this.


I say Meg was watching out for you and didn’t like what she has seen. 

Does Meg like you, YES. 

Did she want you to be happy, Yes. 

That’s why she stayed friends when you and your ex were together. She knows more then you think about your ex. 

Reality check. What would hurt more loosing your ex or Meg?


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> How did I have two girlfriends? I ask out of curiosity and just amusement because I honestly do not think that is true at all. I can't have a close female friend while being in a committed relationship with my ex? Yes, meg cautioned me against my ex but that had only started recently so I don't think it had any real effect on any of my decision making. And yes I have a lot of male friends if you read back they took me to a hotel for a weekend and got me drunk trying to help me and that just caused things to go from bad to worse. I hang out with my male friends a lot it isn't like I just hung out with Meg when I wasn't with my ex 24/7. I was and still hang out with my male friends we go to College football games baseball games go fishing/boating ext.


I think meg found out what your ex was up to. She kept her mouth shut until it was to much.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I mean I have already lost my ex well I could take her back but I think that relationship is far beyond repair. So losing meg would probably be devastating to me at this point. But I mean I probably deserve it anyways. But Meg wants to hang out with me on Friday and take me to a movie and I haven't responded yet. Went out with her tonight for a Halloween party.


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean I have already lost my ex well I could take her back but I think that relationship is far beyond repair. So losing meg would probably be devastating to me at this point. But I mean I probably deserve it anyways. But Meg wants to hang out with me on Friday and take me to a movie and I haven't responded yet. Went out with her tonight for a Halloween party.


You only would deserve it if you do not want to do the hard yards to begin moving past this.

You have previously mentioned that you had a talk with Meg regarding the fact that this situation is very volatile and you are only at the start of moving past all that has happened. 

Perhaps it is time to have another serious talk. From what you have described, she sounds pretty genuine. Her emotions are probably a bit up and down also due to getting together with you recently.

Regardless of which way you want to go, if you value Meg as a person you wish to keep in your life, it is important that you guys have some set rules in place, and stick to them, because neither of you is probably in a good position to be making good judgements long term at present.


----------



## threelittlestars

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean I have already lost my ex well I could take her back but I think that relationship is far beyond repair. So losing meg would probably be devastating to me at this point. But I mean I probably deserve it anyways. But Meg wants to hang out with me on Friday and take me to a movie and I haven't responded yet. Went out with her tonight for a Halloween party.



You don't seem to get or want to listen, but "do you know what space is?" 

Why cant you get space? 

Why are you not allowing yourself to get that...? I know, I am not you, but you keep seeing Meg right now. 

i REALLY hope you know what you are playing with, but the last pages DONT give me confidence that you do. I guess have fun and ignore consequences. You got that technique down pat.


----------



## Diana7

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I mean I have already lost my ex well I could take her back but I think that relationship is far beyond repair. So losing meg would probably be devastating to me at this point. But I mean I probably deserve it anyways. But Meg wants to hang out with me on Friday and take me to a movie and I haven't responded yet. Went out with her tonight for a Halloween party.


You are a classic example of why its a terrible idea to get involved with anyone else when you are still in a mess from a relationship break up.


----------



## Decorum

@personofinterest, I missed her reply for some reason. I think there is often a significant risk in independent close opposite sex friends, especially if the other partner is concerned and their concern is dismissed. I will not defend the OP here, nor censure, but if he wants to see someone else now, that is up to him.

Bitter? no that's just bait, and I'm not biting, but I was feeling a bit protective of him. He was considering suicide just a few weeks ago, and is still pretty broken.


----------



## Decorum

Blondilocks said:


> "Btw; Maybe she didnt mean two literal girlfriends, but one ligit, and one quasi (functionally the same absent the title). This would be another *well placed crass sarcasm*."
> 
> Wrong. Don't give up your day job.
> 
> OP, you always viewed meg as just a friend. Apparently, because (according to your post 318) the timing was always off for the two of you to become a couple. It is obvious that meg desired more and waited in the wings 'til the timing was right. She insisted on moving in, took the relationship sexual and refused to leave when asked. Ex was your official girlfriend and meg was the platonic girlfriend in waiting.
> 
> If you don't wind up with meg, be prepared for blow-back when your next love interest learns that meg wasn't always 'just a friend' because you have proved she wasn't. You have given up the right to claim meg was just a friend because friends don't have sex with friends.
> 
> I hope this post also amuses you. Enjoy your life.


That was not fair of me @Blondilocks, I am sorry.


----------



## personofinterest

Decorum said:


> @personofinterest, I missed her reply for some reason. I think there is often a significant risk in independent close opposite sex friends, especially if the other partner is concerned and their concern is dismissed. I will not defend the OP here, nor censure, but if he wants to see someone else now, that is up to him.
> 
> Bitter? no that's just bait, and I'm not biting, but I was feeling a bit protective of him. He was considering suicide just a few weeks ago, and is still pretty broken.


I have zero Idea which post you are referring to, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

But I do agree that opposite sex close friends are dangerous when in a relationship or marriage. So either you need to quote the post or clarify what "bait" I allegedly threw out.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> I have zero Idea which post you are referring to, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> But I do agree that opposite sex close friends are dangerous when in a relationship or marriage. So either you need to quote the post or clarify what "bait" I allegedly threw out.


 You screwed up one of your quote boxes and it made it look like CmonDionne 's "You sound bitter" post was actually yours because your comment was inside of her quote box. I think that's the confusion.


----------



## personofinterest

Rubix Cubed said:


> You screwed up one of your quote boxes and it made it look like CmonDionne 's "You sound bitter" post was actually yours because your comment was inside of her quote box. I think that's the confusion.



AHHHHHH

Yeah, I don't think decorum sounds bitter

Sorry about that.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I am not trying to be a classic example of anything I am just trying to navigate my life and heal and get over this. I love meg dearly and don't want to lose her ever but I feel like if I try and push her away now that is what will happen. And yes I am still allowing myself to see and spend time with her but nothing has transpired since she was staying with me for a little bit. I have told her we need to just stay friends and nothing more and that while I love her I just love her as a friend and I can't and am not in a position to offer anything more than that currently. I honestly don't know what else I can do then what I have been doing. I am trying my level best.


----------



## Oceania

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am not trying to be a classic example of anything I am just trying to navigate my life and heal and get over this. I love meg dearly and don't want to lose her ever but I feel like if I try and push her away now that is what will happen. And yes I am still allowing myself to see and spend time with her but nothing has transpired since she was staying with me for a little bit. I have told her we need to just stay friends and nothing more and that while I love her I just love her as a friend and I can't and am not in a position to offer anything more than that currently. I honestly don't know what else I can do then what I have been doing. I am trying my level best.


OP I for one am glad to hear that nothing further has transpired between you and meg. Why? I wish I could say but frankly you're not ready to hear it.

And the less complications at this stage the better. That way it will be much better for you in the long run.

Just be ultra careful you don't get her pregnant if you haven't already.


----------



## Decorum

personofinterest said:


> I have zero Idea which post you are referring to, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> But I do agree that opposite sex close friends are dangerous when in a relationship or marriage. So either you need to quote the post or clarify what "bait" I allegedly threw out.


Thank you for asking @personofinterest, you did not throw out any bait.

It was another poster who directed something at me, and my memory is that you quoted it without comment.

I think it has been removed.

She said I sounded bitter.

I regret my series of posts there, but I took your quote as just an honest request for a reply.

I replied as you read (and we have some common ground), but demurred to get involved in defending myself to her.

You are a valuable poster, and I do appreciate the opportunity to explain this, and wish you well.


----------



## harperlee

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I am not trying to be a classic example of anything I am just trying to navigate my life and heal and get over this. I love meg dearly and don't want to lose her ever but I feel like if I try and push her away now that is what will happen. And yes I am still allowing myself to see and spend time with her but nothing has transpired since she was staying with me for a little bit. I have told her we need to just stay friends and nothing more and that while I love her I just love her as a friend and I can't and am not in a position to offer anything more than that currently. I honestly don't know what else I can do then what I have been doing. I am trying my level best.


I may be too assertive to post on this thread since I am late to the party and don't post...ever, lol. I have been following this thread, however and would like to make a few observations.

OP, Meg is not emotionally and sexually supportive of you at this time in order to be altruistic. She, like nearly every other person on the planet is giving in order to receive a desired outcome. The outcome would be presumed as a romantic relationship with you...at some point in the future. Take that as you will but do not pretend to yourself that she is only a friend comforting a friend in a time of need, despite the fact that you have been candid with her regarding your intentions. She is a regular woman, not a saint.

You are currently continuing a pattern of attaching to women who are less than honest with you. That is a risk that you are willing to take to prop yourself up...but in the end, it will be you that is left confused, hurt and scratching your head. Other posters have recommended taking a break from women in general and taking steps to clear your head and heal. I agree.

There a many possibilities as to why your ex lied to you and subsequently flipped her lid. I wonder if she was ever honestly pregnant to be perfectly honest. Regardless of the truth, which you may never know, deception is not a foundation to build a marriage.

I wish you well and hope that you find a healthy focus that centers your perception/grounds you. I suspect that without some time of solitude and reflection, drama will continue to dominate your life.

Good luck.


----------



## Decorum

personofinterest said:


> AHHHHHH
> 
> Yeah, I don't think decorum sounds bitter
> 
> Sorry about that.


Well thanks for that.
I replied before I saw this.
It's all good for me.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

So my weekend couldn't possibly get any worse nothing happened with Meg and I and in fact, I thought she had ditched me after she asked me to dinner and the movies. But instead I found out she had been in a car wreck and I guess I was the last to find out for some reason none of our mutual friends decided to tell me for some reason. And when I showed up to the hospital she was the only one wanting me there. I don't know what is honestly going on. None of my friends will give me an honest answer. And so that has been my Friday and most of Saturday just sat by her bed and tried to be an incredibly good friend and be supportive but apparently, everyone is now treating me like some kind of lepper.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> So my weekend couldn't possibly get any worse nothing happened with Meg and I and in fact, I thought she had ditched me after she asked me to dinner and the movies. But instead I found out she had been in a car wreck and I guess I was the last to find out for some reason none of our mutual friends decided to tell me for some reason. And when I showed up to the hospital she was the only one wanting me there. I don't know what is honestly going on. None of my friends will give me an honest answer. And so that has been my Friday and most of Saturday just sat by her bed and tried to be an incredibly good friend and be supportive but apparently, everyone is now treating me like some kind of lepper.


Why do you insist that these people are your friends?
On your first weekend after breaking up with your fiancée they got you drunk and set you up with another woman,then coincidentally your ex turns up.Who do you think told her where you were.
In their eyes you mistreated Meg by sleeping with her and then friend zoning her.
What kind of car wreck was it,do they think her feelings for you had anything to do with it?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> So my weekend couldn't possibly get any worse nothing happened with Meg and I and in fact, I thought she had ditched me after she asked me to dinner and the movies. But instead I found out she had been in a car wreck and I guess I was the last to find out for some reason none of our mutual friends decided to tell me for some reason. And when I showed up to the hospital she was the only one wanting me there. I don't know what is honestly going on. None of my *friends* will give me an honest answer. And so that has been my Friday and most of Saturday just sat by her bed and tried to be an incredibly good friend and be supportive but apparently, everyone is now treating me like some kind of lepper.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Let me just add, I would bet some or all of your friends knew what was going on with your ex. Possibly including Meg.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I don't feel like I friend zoned her or at least that wasn't my intention. I thought my intentions with her were clear? At least I thought I had made them abundantly clear and she still wanted to hang out with me and this weekend she had it all planned out for the both of us. So I don't know how or what I did wrong there that would make our mutual friends hate me. She was T-boned at an intersection she had a green arrow guy ran the light and hit her doing about 60 and her car flipped. So no I don't feel like it was in any way my fault? But I guess I could be wrong. I mean why would the hide what they knew from me about my ex if they all wanted me to get with meg? I mean they were just trying to help me get over her that weekend not really the best but I mean they tried. If they did call my ex and had her come to the hotel that would be really messed up.


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't feel like I friend zoned her or at least that wasn't my intention. I thought my intentions with her were clear? At least I thought I had made them abundantly clear and she still wanted to hang out with me and this weekend she had it all planned out for the both of us. So I don't know how or what I did wrong there that would make our mutual friends hate me. She was T-boned at an intersection she had a green arrow guy ran the light and hit her doing about 60 and her car flipped. So no I don't feel like it was in any way my fault? But I guess I could be wrong. I mean why would the hide what they knew from me about my ex if they all wanted me to get with meg? I mean they were just trying to help me get over her that weekend not really the best but I mean they tried. If they did call my ex and had her come to the hotel that would be really messed up.


I am going to sound like a broken record here, but mainly because it is something you haven't tried yet. And, despite the criticism you feel you may have copped on here, I, and others, are wanting for you to get out of this.

Get some distance from all this. Make sure Meg is ok with her injuries/recovery, then get some bloody distance. Everywhere you turn now, you find yourself in a ****storm. I can only imagine how you must be feeling right now. But if you can't trust your ex, and you can't trust your friends, and with your situation with Meg being what it is, step out for a while. You don't have to be an ass about it, but you need some perspective on this, and you aren't going to achieve it by 'being in the ring' with these people.

Edit: I may have missed it in an earlier part of the thread, but is there anyone other male figure (preferably one who has had alot more life experience) who you can confide in, that isn't involved in this situation?


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't feel like I friend zoned her or at least that wasn't my intention. I thought my intentions with her were clear? At least I thought I had made them abundantly clear and she still wanted to hang out with me and this weekend she had it all planned out for the both of us. So I don't know how or what I did wrong there that would make our mutual friends hate me. She was T-boned at an intersection she had a green arrow guy ran the light and hit her doing about 60 and her car flipped. So no I don't feel like it was in any way my fault? But I guess I could be wrong. I mean why would the hide what they knew from me about my ex if they all wanted me to get with meg? I mean they were just trying to help me get over her that weekend not really the best but I mean they tried. If they did call my ex and had her come to the hotel that would be really messed up.


Listen, you are taking too much on yourself. 

First off, YOU have done nothing wrong in any of this. I think everyone should get off your back. 

Second, maybe your friends thought that you would freak out if they told you Meg was hurt. Or maybe not, either way all of that is on them. 

And I disagree, if Meg wants to hang with you, and you have been straight with her about where you are at, man, just live life.

Get over the heartbreak. And move on. With whoever...

You know, if your friends are jerks or stupid or whatever, that is on them. 

You just need to move on and stop worrying about all of this stuff. Be there for Meg if you can while she heals, and live your life. 

Try to relax, you don't have to solve all of these issues today or next month... Breath...


----------



## sunsetmist

BluesPower said:


> Listen, you are taking too much on yourself.
> 
> First off, YOU have done nothing wrong in any of this. I think everyone should get off your back.
> 
> Second, maybe your friends thought that you would freak out if they told you Meg was hurt. Or maybe not, either way all of that is on them.
> 
> And I disagree, if Meg wants to hang with you, and you have been straight with her about where you are at, man, just live life.
> 
> Get over the heartbreak. And move on. With whoever...
> 
> You know, if your friends are jerks or stupid or whatever, that is on them.
> 
> You just need to move on and stop worrying about all of this stuff. Be there for Meg if you can while she heals, and live your life.
> 
> Try to relax, you don't have to solve all of these issues today or next month... Breath...


I disagree with @BluesPower. I'm thinking you need a vacation from male/female relationships at this time. 

Learn more about who you are and what you stand for. You already know what Meg wants and you do not want to hurt her especially at this vulnerable (injured) time. There are too many outside issues to prevent you developing an authentic relationship currently.


----------



## BluesPower

sunsetmist said:


> I disagree with @BluesPower. I'm thinking you need a vacation from male/female relationships at this time.
> 
> Learn more about who you are and what you stand for. You already know what Meg wants and you do not want to hurt her especially at this vulnerable (injured) time.  There are too many outside issues to prevent you developing an authentic relationship currently.


I know everyone is saying that. I get it. 

Here is the deal for me. He told her that he has no idea where his head is at, and she choose to hang with him. 

She is a grown woman, and I feel like that is her choice. He knows not to get too serious about anything right now. 

I mean, what harm could it really do. The guy just got out of the hospital a few weeks back. I think he needs someone to lean on a little, no strings attached. 

Maybe I am wrong...


----------



## sunsetmist

BluesPower said:


> I know everyone is saying that. I get it.
> 
> Here is the deal for me. He told her that he has no idea where his head is at, and she choose to hang with him.
> 
> She is a grown woman, and I feel like that is her choice. He knows not to get too serious about anything right now.
> 
> I mean, what harm could it really do. The guy just got out of the hospital a few weeks back. I think he needs someone to lean on a little, no strings attached.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong...


Maybe this is a male vs. female POV. He's already said he is used to his SO being the STRONG one in the relationship. He needs to work on manly traits--strengthening his mind, actions, etc. IMHO, we aren't just talking strings, but ties that bind. He wasn't even using birth control. I think he needs an older, male mentor--father, uncle, pastor, coach.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> If they did call my ex and had her come to the hotel that would be really messed up.


 How would she have found out otherwise?
Any of these "friends" show an interest in your ex?


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

No none of my friends liked my ex or even tried to hit on her not once. They hated her and she hated them at least from what I have seen. I don't know why they would attempt to sabotage a relationship that was already over. I grew up with these people went to the same schools hung out and graduated together as well I just don't think they would be trying to hurt me like that. And they told me they weren't angry with or at me just that they didn't think I should be there and seeing meg like that with the way I have been battling depression and anxiety. And that was also why they hadn't told me what had happened. I have older father figures my dad as well as some uncles.


----------



## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I have older father figures my dad as well as some uncles.


It is time to seek them out


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I have been seeking them out and asking them for advice but they mostly have told me that I need to take a step back and perhaps even get away on a vacation. I just can't drop everything with work and other things and leave so it is difficult.


----------



## Cynthia

There are a couple things you should consider regarding Meg.
#1 She is likely in love with you and probably has been for years.
#2 Once you become sexually involved with her she is no longer simply a friend. She is a lover. You can't go back to just friends. If you try, you will end up not being either. In the future when you find someone else, your relationship with Meg will be over, because a new lover isn't going to tolerate an old lover in the picture. Either you work through whatever is going on with Meg or you are going to permanently lose her due to stepping into a lover relationship with her.
#3 If you truly care about Meg and expect to remain in a relationship with her, you should be there for her through her recovery.

I agree that getting involved with Meg sexually was the wrong decision, but you made it and now you are in more of a mess than you were before. You don't want to lose Meg, but you can't commit to her either. That isn't fair to Meg. I don't think Meg meant to harm you by getting sexually involved with you. She likely saw it as her chance to finally change the status of your relationship and be your girl. Neither of you were thinking clearly about the implications of that decision and now you have some decisions to make.

Now that she is injured your choices are further limited. If you aren't there for her through this your relationship will never recover. She won't trust you and for good reason.

Find a new therapist since the one you currently have isn't working out for you.


----------



## threelittlestars

CynthiaDe said:


> There are a couple things you should consider regarding Meg.
> #1 She is likely in love with you and probably has been for years.
> #2 Once you become sexually involved with her she is no longer simply a friend. She is a lover. You can't go back to just friends. If you try, you will end up not being either. In the future when you find someone else, your relationship with Meg will be over, because a new lover isn't going to tolerate an old lover in the picture. Either you work through whatever is going on with Meg or you are going to permanently lose her due to stepping into a lover relationship with her.
> #3 If you truly care about Meg and expect to remain in a relationship with her, you should be there for her through her recovery.
> 
> I agree that getting involved with Meg sexually was the wrong decision, but you made it and now you are in more of a mess than you were before. You don't want to lose Meg, but you can't commit to her either. That isn't fair to Meg. I don't think Meg meant to harm you by getting sexually involved with you. She likely saw it as her chance to finally change the status of your relationship and be your girl. Neither of you were thinking clearly about the implications of that decision and now you have some decisions to make.
> 
> Now that she is injured your choices are further limited. If you aren't there for her through this your relationship will never recover. She won't trust you and for good reason.
> 
> Find a new therapist since the one you currently have isn't working out for you.


^ You made her your lover.... She is NOT your friend anymore. You messed that part up when you slept with her. If you want to keep her in your life you need to let her know that you dont know where your head is at but you are there for her...AS A LOVER. if you are not ready for that prepare to lose your long term 'friend'. 

I do think you should have gotten away for a while, but that ship sailed. Focus on meg...i think it will actually be good for you.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

The Issue is I do love her I just don't know if I love her as a friend or more then that and sleeping with her has only royally screwed up my headspace worse whilst I am trying to work through that and it was a mistake but I do not blame her I blame myself for not being stronger honestly. I have been with her every day so far and have taken off of work to sit with her in the hospital. I can't just bring myself to abandon her. I don't know if she has been in love with me or is in love with me, She hasn't really straightforward said it. So I am not sure and I don't like drawing false conclusions. I mean my instincts say yes but I am not ready to be in a relationship with her even if I wanted to. And even then I don't wanna use her as a rebound relationship, And I have already been looking for a new therapist.


----------



## Kamstel

You are a damn good man


----------



## aine

Kamstel said:


> You are a damn good man


I disagree. You are a bloody train wreck who is so far up your own ass you do not stop to think of the consequences of your actions on others. I now doubt the circumstances surrounding your ex fiance and the pregnancy. You are so flighty that the way you explained those circumstances are probably a watered down version of the actual facts.
Now you go sleep with a friend to self soothe.
PLease stay away from all women right now, as you are causing so much damage to them. You like to think of yourself as a decent man, doing the right thing, blah blah blah. Stop the whinging and stand up and be a man and do the right thing.
If you cannot do that go and get IC and leave the women ALONE.


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## Kamstel

He is a good man because he is struggling with these issues. If he wasn’t struggling, he would be perfectly fine.

Yes, sleeping with the friend was a mistake, but it happened. It happened when he was at the low point in his life. And while it has added many more layers to his problems, he is trying to figure it, along with everything else out.

The first step is to continue to distance himself from the ex and her family.

Next, he needs to talk to friend and get each other to understand where each of them are and what they want from each other, if anything.

Keep moving forward


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

How am I causing so much damage to women? My ex-has caused all the damage how in the hell did I damage her? She is the one that possibly cheated and if not that then betrayed all the trust in our relationship and lied and got an abortion on our unborn kid. And I am not sure how I am damaging Meg? I mean I told her more than once where my head was at yes I slept with her and yes it was a mistake but I don't think that damaged her. I am trying my best with meg been at her hospital bed all week. I am trying my best at least I feel like I am doing what is right. Meg and I today had a very serious discusion, She admitted she has been in love with me since high school and that she never made a move because she knew how deeply I was in love with my ex and wasn't gonna be that girl. She wants me to give her a chance now and doesn't care where it leads or what happens. I also don't know how I am so flighty? I gave the facts of what happened. I mean my ex assaulted me I am not sure what more you want from me when it comes to that.


----------



## threelittlestars

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> How am I causing so much damage to women? My ex-has caused all the damage how in the hell did I damage her? She is the one that possibly cheated and if not that then betrayed all the trust in our relationship and lied and got an abortion on our unborn kid. And I am not sure how I am damaging Meg? I mean I told her more than once where my head was at yes I slept with her and yes it was a mistake but I don't think that damaged her. I am trying my best with meg been at her hospital bed all week. I am trying my best at least I feel like I am doing what is right. Meg and I today had a very serious discusion, She admitted she has been in love with me since high school and that she never made a move because she knew how deeply I was in love with my ex and wasn't gonna be that girl. She wants me to give her a chance now and doesn't care where it leads or what happens. I also don't know how I am so flighty? I gave the facts of what happened. I mean my ex assaulted me I am not sure what more you want from me when it comes to that.


In your dysfunction you are hurting Meg. She may not admit it right now but you are. However... I dont think you are a bad person. A drowning person reaches for anything that will help them survive, even if they bring someone down with them. This is in effect what (were) doing with Meg. You are drowning in your pain, not working through it in a healthy way and you stand to lose a long term friendship/relationship for it. 

I however think it is past time to get space and clarity unless you have no concern over the (potential) damage that your emotional drowning has done. 

You are not evil. You have not tried to hurt Meg, or your ex (deserved or not). But you cant claim ignorance on the lack of wisdom you have shown.

Not surprised in the least about how meg feels. You had people, and myself included telling you this is how it was a few pages back. Now that you know how she feels how to you feel with yourself also being used (to a degree) by her. Your vulnerability was an open door for her to step right in. How is that a healthy mindset? 

Anyway, I am glad you guys had this discussion.... Not sure where it will lead.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

You discussed with Meg, now sit back and take a deep breath. In reading your post I get a feeling of nervous energy.
Appreciate the fact that Meg was honest with you. You stay honest with her. If you can communicate that you need to stop moving your relationship forward for a bit to mentally catch your breath?? Maybe?? Doesn't mean your breaking it off with her, but you need to calm your mind. As a christian, when I find myself stressing out about something, I have to remind my self of this verse - “Be still and know that I am God,” Psalm 46:10

Your too close to the end date of your prior relationship to decide if you want a relationship with Meg. You CAN however be supportive of her while she is in hospital. No one wants to be dumped while they are a in patient.


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## BluesPower

Guys, listen... 

This man has been through so much. He is a good guy. He has been traumatized by his ex. 

I am not saying that the timing is the best in the world, but how romantic would it be if him and meg actually worked out. 

I mean, can't we make an exception and give him a pass to be with Meg. You know he has some type of feelings for Meg, can we let them see what happens? 

This poor girl has been waiting for him for 12 years? Come on guys, lets break the rules and tell him to take a shot.

I would give my left nut to have a woman love me like this. 

What do you say, lets bless this and see what happens...


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## sokillme

Poor Meg. Meg is a nice girl and is going to end up getting burned. Even if they get together one day she will get more confidence and realize she was only the safe fall back option.


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## Oceania

BluesPower said:


> Guys, listen...
> 
> *This man has been through so much. He is a good guy. He has been traumatized by his ex. *
> *She too has taken some big hits. I guess for that reason I'm concerned about her too.
> *
> I am not saying that the timing is the best in the world, *but how romantic would it be if him and meg actually worked out. *
> *Honestly what planet are you on? And now you're writing a Mills & Boons happy ending within months of recent events with GF?*
> 
> I mean, can't we make an exception and give him a pass to be with Meg. You know he has some type of feelings for Meg, can we let them see what happens?
> *Yes OP is even willing to entertain cheating on GF's part to allow him to pursue this thing with meg. If that's the case then ok. But for goodness sakes at least be honest about it.*
> 
> This poor girl has been waiting for him for 12 years? Come on guys, lets break the rules and tell him to take a shot.
> *Yes let's not have any rules. eyeroll*
> 
> I would give my left nut to have a woman love me like this.
> 
> 
> What do you say, lets bless this and see what happens...


----------



## Blondilocks

threelittlestars said:


> In your dysfunction you are hurting Meg. She may not admit it right now but you are. However... I dont think you are a bad person. A drowning person reaches for anything that will help them survive, even if they bring someone down with them. This is in effect what (were) doing with Meg. You are drowning in your pain, not working through it in a healthy way and you stand to lose a long term friendship/relationship for it.
> 
> I however think it is past time to get space and clarity unless you have no concern over the (potential) damage that your emotional drowning has done.
> 
> You are not evil. You have not tried to hurt Meg, or your ex (deserved or not). But you cant claim ignorance on the lack of wisdom you have shown.
> 
> Not surprised in the least about how meg feels. You had people, and myself included telling you this is how it was a few pages back. Now that you know how she feels how to you feel with yourself also being used (to a degree) by her. Your vulnerability was an open door for her to step right in. How is that a healthy mindset?
> 
> Anyway, I am glad you guys had this discussion.... Not sure where it will lead.


Methinks our pearls are not only wasted; but, snickered at. Sigh, why do we even try?


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## FrazzledSadHusband

sokillme said:


> Poor Meg. Meg is a nice girl and is going to end up getting burned. Even if they get together one day she will get more confidence and realize she was only the safe fall back option.


You put into words what I was thinking when I wrote my prior post. @Loyaltyaboveallelse, NO ONE wants to realize "I'm the one my OP settled for instead of the one they wanted"

Meg has opened up and expressed her feelings, OP has been "o well, she's kinda nice and I've known her for a while so she feels safe to be around." Being in a relationship, if ya wanta get romantic, should be both feel attached like Meg feels for the OP.

Not saying they should break up, but take some time to evaluate feelings.


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## BluesPower

@CmonDionne... I could not get your response to quote because it was inside my post but anyway...

I just wanted something to work out... once. 

I cannot be a little romantic just once, I mean it has to happen for someone at some time...


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## Luminous

BluesPower said:


> @CmonDionne... I could not get your response to quote because it was inside my post but anyway...
> 
> I just wanted something to work out... once.
> 
> I cannot be a little romantic just once, I mean it has to happen for someone at some time...


Blues, I think it is more to do with timing... 

There are probably quite a few that can see where things might go (in a positive way), but without clarity and perspective, it seems unlikely at this stage.

I'll admit your post caught me a little off guard


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Not sure how I can dump someone I am not even in a relationship with. But Aside from that, I told her last night that I understand how she feels but I need time and space so I can figure things out in my own headspace. And that if she is able to give me that then possibly we might be able to go from there but that I can't make any promises about anything right now. But I plan on taking a week from everything and everyone if not longer and just trying to work through this. I know I haven't made the best choices and I am sorry for that to everyone. I only entertained the cheating on my ex's part based off of advice I had received from here because at the time it made sense and still does. Not sure how I can be faulted for that one. And I am also unsure how I somehow planned to break up with my ex so I could pursue meg that was never my intention. If I had my way none of this would have ever happened and My ex and I would still be together. It is my fault Meg has been in love with me this long? Even though she has never told me this until now or even bothered to be open about how she felt all the way back in high school? I don't understand but alright.


----------



## Cynthia

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not sure how I can dump someone I am not even in a relationship with. But Aside from that, I told her last night that I understand how she feels but I need time and space so I can figure things out in my own headspace. And that if she is able to give me that then possibly we might be able to go from there but that I can't make any promises about anything right now. But I plan on taking a week from everything and everyone if not longer and just trying to work through this. I know I haven't made the best choices and I am sorry for that to everyone. I only entertained the cheating on my ex's part based off of advice I had received from here because at the time it made sense and still does. Not sure how I can be faulted for that one. And I am also unsure how I somehow planned to break up with my ex so I could pursue meg that was never my intention. If I had my way none of this would have ever happened and My ex and I would still be together. It is my fault Meg has been in love with me this long? Even though she has never told me this until now or even bothered to be open about how she felt all the way back in high school? I don't understand but alright.


You don't need to defend yourself. You are doing the best you can. You haven't meant anyone any harm, including Meg.


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## sunsetmist

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not sure how I can dump someone I am not even in a relationship with. But Aside from that, I told her last night that I understand how she feels but I need time and space so I can figure things out in my own headspace. And that if she is able to give me that then possibly we might be able to go from there but that I can't make any promises about anything right now. But I plan on taking a week from everything and everyone if not longer and just trying to work through this. I know I haven't made the best choices and I am sorry for that to everyone. I only entertained the cheating on my ex's part based off of advice I had received from here because at the time it made sense and still does. Not sure how I can be faulted for that one. And I am also unsure how I somehow planned to break up with my ex so I could pursue meg that was never my intention. If I had my way none of this would have ever happened and My ex and I would still be together. It is my fault Meg has been in love with me this long? Even though she has never told me this until now or even bothered to be open about how she felt all the way back in high school? I don't understand but alright.


You've done the best you could with where you were. We all do. You have no reasons to be sorry--we are not judge and jury--there are no perfect answers. As you know, you must choose what resonates with you from the variety of opinions here.

Taking a break is now perfect. But it is going to be a while (much more than a week) before you can think clearly. We knew how Meg felt when she moved in, you didn't realize the way of women. You say you have been clear with her--good for you. As a female, let me say that she loves you and is willing to risk hurt to have you. Essentially she sees now as her chance. 

Glad you are supportive during her illness. IMO: Your compassion and empathy sometimes seem to outweigh your logic and understanding of truth.


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## threelittlestars

CmonDionne said:


>



he is NOT cheating on his ex. He is not cheating on her because the abortion was a deal breaker for him. So... I still don't think this was right so fast, but it is what it is. 

i also agree on the eye roll about it being a bit over the top to think this is some sort of epic romance.


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## syhoybenden

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not sure how I can dump someone I am not even in a relationship with. But Aside from that, I told her last night that I understand how she feels but I need time and space so I can figure things out in my own headspace. And that if she is able to give me that then possibly we might be able to go from there but that I can't make any promises about anything right now. But I plan on taking a week from everything and everyone if not longer and just trying to work through this. I know I haven't made the best choices and I am sorry for that to everyone. I only entertained the cheating on my ex's part based off of advice I had received from here because at the time it made sense and still does. Not sure how I can be faulted for that one. And I am also unsure how I somehow planned to break up with my ex so I could pursue meg that was never my intention. If I had my way none of this would have ever happened and My ex and I would still be together. It is my fault Meg has been in love with me this long? Even though she has never told me this until now or even bothered to be open about how she felt all the way back in high school? I don't understand but alright.




Be open with her. Be honest with her.

Tell her that right now you are hurt. You are reeling. That, just right now, you are not sure of anything that you are feeling. You are vulnerable. You are in shock. AND that this is not her fault.

Let her know that you just need to stabilize so that nobody, not you, and not her gets hurt.
That you just need a little time.

If she has waited 12 years then a few more months isn't going to compromise anything.


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## Blondilocks

This is going to go over like a lead balloon; but, here goes. Meg has bunny boiler written all over her. She fell for a guy in high school and even though he was with another she stuck to him like glue and pretended it was friendship. In reality she was biding her time and when it came she went in for the kill. She and the exgf had been having little tiffs over possession periodically but it was all kept hush-hush from OP. Downright creepy. 

Is there a single member of this forum who has an opposite sex friend from childhood still involved in their lives?


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## Cynthia

Has Meg had any serious boyfriends over the years?


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yes, she has had some very serious relationships and was even engaged. But it fell apart and she told me that it just wasn't working out and that while she loved him she just knew he was not the spend the rest of your lives together type of guy. I haven't ever pushed her on her past relationships because it honestly never occurred to me what was going on and I suppose that is just my own fault. She got released from the hospital today and got to go home but I drove her home and we talked for a while but nothing happened and I just told her I needed some space for a while and she was perfectly okay with it and least that is how it seemed. I don't know why me having a childhood friend of the opposite sex is such a bad or uncommon thing. I just never given much thought of it and never thought it was a big deal and I still don't. I am not out to hurt her and that is the very last thing I want, I care for her a great deal. But I do not want to use her as a rebound she deserves better than that and I have expressed that to her.


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## sokillme

Um seems you already have used her as one to a certain extent. 

So she dumped her fiancee because she didn't want to marry a guy like that, however she has been secretly pining away for an unavailable friend for years? I think you are out of the woods, all you have to do it date her for about a year and she will probably dump you too. She sounds like the grass is always greener, wants what she can't have type. The nice girl thing fits that too. Same kind of passive aggressive weirdness. I would advise you NOT to get into a relationship with her, it will not end well.


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## Luminous

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, she has had some very serious relationships and was even engaged. But it fell apart and she told me that it just wasn't working out and that while she loved him she just knew he was not the spend the rest of your lives together type of guy. I haven't ever pushed her on her past relationships because it honestly never occurred to me what was going on and I suppose that is just my own fault. She got released from the hospital today and got to go home but I drove her home and we talked for a while but nothing happened and I just told her I needed some space for a while and she was perfectly okay with it and least that is how it seemed. I don't know why me having a childhood friend of the opposite sex is such a bad or uncommon thing. I just never given much thought of it and never thought it was a big deal and I still don't. I am not out to hurt her and that is the very last thing I want, I care for her a great deal. But I do not want to use her as a rebound she deserves better than that and I have expressed that to her.


Yes, people can have lifelong friends of the opposite sex, provided you are aware that your friendship may be the source of concern for any relationship partners they may have.

I have one, however when we speak I always make it a point to ask about her husband (who I also have known since high school) and their kids. Just simple respect.

If I may offer something to you, whenever you are in a situation that is stressful, give the following a try. The military use it, some martial artists use it. It is called 'combat breathing' and it focuses on using a 4 count breathing pattern to calm yourself down from a stressful experience. It goes as follows:

4 count (as you breathe in)
4 count (hold that breath)
4 count (exhale)
4 count (hold)

And repeat for approximately 2 minutes, or until you feel it take affect.

Maybe give it a shot next time you're stressed...

Ok I'm out, back to working on mind bending that spoon...


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## Openminded

You were fine having a childhood friend until you had sex with her. That's the problem. Your relationship has changed and you can't go back to what it was. Obviously, you can create a new relationship but that will have to be worked out over time. Space -- and no sex -- is what you should focus on with her.


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## Cynthia

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't know why me having a childhood friend of the opposite sex is such a bad or uncommon thing. I just never given much thought of it and never thought it was a big deal and I still don't. I am not out to hurt her and that is the very last thing I want, I care for her a great deal. But I do not want to use her as a rebound she deserves better than that and I have expressed that to her.


First off, she wasn't just a childhood friend. What you have described is your best friend; someone you have been very close to who knows all about you, understands you deeply, and loves you and visa versa. This is not common with an opposite sex friend and most people would not want her spouse to have a female friend of this nature. It is entirely different if it's a same sex friend and you are heterosexual.

Secondly, she is no longer only your childhood friend or best friend, she has been your lover. You flew into her arms immediately after your breakup with your fiancee. You can never go back to erase the sexual nature of your relationship, which will make it difficult, if not impossible for you to retain her as a friend with our without either of you finding a new significant other. Most people are not going to tolerate their spouse being in a close relationship with someone who was once a lover.

The nature of your relationship has now fundamentally changed and you can't go back to the way it was before, because there is a new dimension that was added to your relationship.


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## sunsetmist

I agree with @CynthiaDe. Furthermore, besides the dynamics of the relationship changing, Meg has told you she has loved you not as a friend, but wanting you as a lover for a long time. She is waiting for you to make decisions. Having had a sexual relationship with her, this puts you in a awkward place. 

Again, I say time is your friend. You don't have a history of being a strong decision-maker, nor for taking time to really evaluate your needs and wants in life. Start working on that now.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Sorry I haven't been on here and updated in a while. I needed some alone time from everyone and just kind of shut myself away as much as possible for a week. Just went to work and went home and stayed home and tried to deal with my crap and figure my head out and attempt to figure out my feelings and what to do. But that didn't really work out as great as I thought it would in all honesty. Meg was calling and texting me a lot and I ran into my ex at the grocery store but she didn't really make a scene this time for some reason. She just mouthed she loved me and misses me, which naturally brought up a lot of confusing feelings for me. I feel like a total ****bag in all of this because I have two people that love me and I mean you are lucky to get one of those in a lifetime. I really want to talk with my ex because I feel bad for how things went down and ended and I know and understand I shouldn't considering she made her choices that lead to where we are now but at the same time I am still really struggling with my doubts about what I did. And I don't wanna feel like I threw away the perfect relationship. But at the same time I can't deny that I do feel something for me and she obviously loves me very deeply and always has and I don't want to hurt anyone.


----------



## Decorum

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I don't want to hurt anyone.


Normal things that cause pain should not be feared or avoided.

A passive approach based on fear hurts people too. It is just easier to not feel responsible for it. 

Dating, breakups, they involve pain. That is life.

Having boundaries, raising children, being a friend can all involve pain.

Maybe make a list of what you are afraid of. 

Divide it into a side that may cause reasonable, acceptable pain.

The other side can be the side where you would truly be at fault for causing pain.

You may be making it harder on yourself by confonding the two.

Deal with your thoughts and feelings based on where the fear/pain/guilt, lands on the list.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

Some discipline in your thinking may prove to be a big help.

Realize if I do something "bad" that is on me, if you do something "bad" because of it, that is on you.

It may be a big help to make the same list for your ex. 

That way you can better discern when your guilt is real, or imagined.


----------



## threelittlestars

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't been on here and updated in a while. I needed some alone time from everyone and just kind of shut myself away as much as possible for a week. Just went to work and went home and stayed home and tried to deal with my crap and figure my head out and attempt to figure out my feelings and what to do. But that didn't really work out as great as I thought it would in all honesty. Meg was calling and texting me a lot and I ran into my ex at the grocery store but she didn't really make a scene this time for some reason. She just mouthed she loved me and misses me, which naturally brought up a lot of confusing feelings for me. I feel like a total ****bag in all of this because I have two people that love me and I mean you are lucky to get one of those in a lifetime. I really want to talk with my ex because I feel bad for how things went down and ended and I know and understand I shouldn't considering she made her choices that lead to where we are now but at the same time I am still really struggling with my doubts about what I did. And I don't wanna feel like I threw away the perfect relationship. But at the same time I can't deny that I do feel something for me and she obviously loves me very deeply and always has and I don't want to hurt anyone.


If it was the PERFECT relationship why would your EX think she needed to abort your child? She is lying, or she is not fully mentally stable. 

You had far from the ideal relationship. 

As to meg, I think she needs therapy, but I do think there (could) be something deep and real there. If not this screwing around you did has ruined the platonic friendship. You go back to the EX kiss your long time friend good bye. 

I dont get you. But at the same time you are in mourning. Think about this. If you had the perfect relationship she would be showing right now, a little baby bump and you two would have been in it together. She shattered that possibility because there was something wrong with her. She was lying about something. And i think man...after the way she acted before during the break up you need to LET GO!


----------



## sunsetmist

I'm wondering what you think of the thread @thebettyshow --husband sexting ex for 15 years? You both are stuck in your minds, second guessing, doubting reality. Can you see the parallels?


----------



## Oceania

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't been on here and updated in a while. I needed some alone time from everyone and just kind of shut myself away as much as possible for a week. Just went to work and went home and stayed home and tried to deal with my crap and figure my head out and attempt to figure out my feelings and what to do. But that didn't really work out as great as I thought it would in all honesty. Meg was calling and texting me a lot and I ran into my ex at the grocery store but she didn't really make a scene this time for some reason. She just mouthed she loved me and misses me, which naturally brought up a lot of confusing feelings for me. I feel like a total ****bag in all of this because I have two people that love me and I mean you are lucky to get one of those in a lifetime. I really want to talk with my ex because I feel bad for how things went down and ended and I know and understand I shouldn't considering she made her choices that lead to where we are now but at the same time I am still really struggling with my doubts about what I did. And I don't wanna feel like I threw away the perfect relationship. But at the same time I can't deny that I do feel something for me and she obviously loves me very deeply and always has and I don't want to hurt anyone.


It doesn't sound as though Meg gave you any space at all. Of course you feel something for her now. That whole relationship changed when she made her move on you. Oh the irony if she became pregnant. It would flip the title of this thread. Make no mistake she is making her move on you and she won't stop until she has you.

It's probably something GF saw in Meg and it came to a head. GF won't approach you now. Isn't there some sort of restraining order on her? If you want to talk to her it will have to come from you.


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## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't been on here and updated in a while. I needed some alone time from everyone and just kind of shut myself away as much as possible for a week. Just went to work and went home and stayed home and tried to deal with my crap and figure my head out and attempt to figure out my feelings and what to do. But that didn't really work out as great as I thought it would in all honesty. Meg was calling and texting me a lot and I ran into my ex at the grocery store but she didn't really make a scene this time for some reason. She just mouthed she loved me and misses me, which naturally brought up a lot of confusing feelings for me. I feel like a total ****bag in all of this because I have two people that love me and I mean you are lucky to get one of those in a lifetime. I really want to talk with my ex because I feel bad for how things went down and ended and I know and understand I shouldn't considering she made her choices that lead to where we are now but at the same time I am still really struggling with my doubts about what I did. And I don't wanna feel like I threw away the perfect relationship. But at the same time I can't deny that I do feel something for me and she obviously loves me very deeply and always has and I don't want to hurt anyone.


Listen my young brother. 

1) You do not need to talk to your ex. Man she is nuts, and I don't mean a little bit nuts. I mean she is bat **** crazy. So save yourself the trouble. 

2) It is not your responsibility to save anyone, except yourself. So all of the guilt and white knighting that you are thinking about, you need to stop. 

3) There are several woman that love me at this moment. On one level it may seem cool, I get that. But the exes that still love me are exes for a reason. They were crazy. 

Listen, some of the things you are worrying about you just need to stop. 

Your ex betrayed you at the highest level. Whether she cheated and got pregnant or whether she aborted your baby makes no difference. 

And you owe her nothing. Not ONE THING. 

Meg, you know if she wants to hang with you I am not against it personally. I know others are. But she is grown and she can make her own decisions. 

You need to let your ex and any thoughts her go... Just let it go, and please continue moving on with your life, as long as you leave your ex alone and let her stew in her own ****...


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Yes, there is still a restraining order out against her I don't know what is going on with her court crap I haven't bothered keeping up with any of it anymore. Yes, she is an ex for a reason but you just can't throw away twelve years of feelings I have been really thinking about talking to her again though. I doubt meg is gonna get pregnant it was only those few times and it took twelve years to even get my ex-pregnant although not even sure it was mine at times. God, I feel really screwed up, It isn't even that I feel cool or important having two chicks in love with me its that I have feelings for both and it makes me feel incredibly screwy. If my ex did see something in Meg I really wish they both would have told me what they were going on and that they both had issues with one another. I still don't know what I will do in all honesty but something is drawing me towards meg and it just feels easy with her vs working everything out with my ex if that was even a possibility.


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## Oceania

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, there is still a restraining order out against her I don't know what is going on with her court crap I haven't bothered keeping up with any of it anymore. Yes, she is an ex for a reason but you just can't throw away twelve years of feelings I have been really thinking about talking to her again though. I doubt meg is gonna get pregnant it was only those few times and it took twelve years to even get my ex-pregnant although not even sure it was mine at times. God, I feel really screwed up, It isn't even that I feel cool or important having two chicks in love with me its that I have feelings for both and it makes me feel incredibly screwy. If my ex did see something in Meg I really wish they both would have told me what they were going on and that they both had issues with one another. I still don't know what I will do in all honesty but something is drawing me towards meg and it just feels easy with her vs working everything out with my ex if that was even a possibility.


Look OP it just sounds to me like there are still a lot of unresolved issues with GF. I know there are those who would advise against having any contact with her whatsoever and to just cut her out of your life as though she never existed.

But I am of the view that talking with GF will be better for you in the long run. You sound like you are ready to talk to her now and perhaps enough time has passed for her to be able to talk to you calmly as well. It may mean she just wants to say 'what happened to us'. You may even be able to remember the good times you enjoyed together. It is possible to talk like this when you're saying goodbye to each other.

But whatever you talk about it may clear the air for you both. And if you live in a small town or an area where there's a likelihood of running into each other or each others families then try try try to leave each other on as good a terms as possible.

No, you do not owe her anything now and neither does she you to be honest. 

I get why it's easy to go with Meg, because it IS easier. But that also may not be best for you in the long run.

It's important that you understand relationships around you, especially those concerning a significant other and any women friends you may have regardless of how long you have been friends.


----------



## BluesPower

CmonDionne said:


> Look OP it just sounds to me like there are still a lot of unresolved issues with GF. I know there are those who would advise against having any contact with her whatsoever and to just cut her out of your life as though she never existed.
> 
> But I am of the view that talking with GF will be better for you in the long run. You sound like you are ready to talk to her now and perhaps enough time has passed for her to be able to talk to you calmly as well. It may mean she just wants to say 'what happened to us'. You may even be able to remember the good times you enjoyed together. It is possible to talk like this when you're saying goodbye to each other.
> 
> But whatever you talk about it may clear the air for you both. And if you live in a small town or an area where there's a likelihood of running into each other or each others families then try try try to leave each other on as good a terms as possible.
> 
> No, you do not owe her anything now and neither does she you to be honest.
> 
> I get why it's easy to go with Meg, because it IS easier. But that also may not be best for you in the long run.
> 
> It's important that you understand relationships around you, especially those concerning a significant other and any women friends you may have regardless of how long you have been friends.


I get that you @CmonDionne and others feel that way. 

However, I just want to point out or ask, that if OP was female, how many here would recommend that an abuses woman should TALK to her abuser to clear the air? 

I would not, that if for sure. 

OP, with a woman like this, yes, you lose all feeling for her and leave her in the dust. I understand that I hard for you, but it is what you have to do. 

It is what you need to do...


----------



## personofinterest

I agree, Blues. There is no fsthomable reason the OP should talk to her.

None

Zero

The very idea is ridiculous.


----------



## Cynthia

There is not need to clear the air with someone who has proven that she has emotional problems and that she doesn't have your back. You cannot believe anything she says and she will likely try to mess with your mind and try to get you back. Run and don't look back.

Yes, you will still have trouble getting over her and what happened, but seeing her isn't going to resolve any of that. Likely you will be in a much worse place than you currently are if you seek her out.

As far as Meg goes, I know this goes against the wisdom of others here, but perhaps you two should be together. You can't seem to be without her and you clearly love each other. You find her attractive. I don't understand how you could go back to being platonic friends after all this. I don't believe you could. She has her issues (don't we all), but she has been loyal and supportive of you.


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## sunsetmist

IMHO: OP is young, but even more immature in his ability to make decisions. I think he has a tendency to be influenced by whomever he is with. This could lead to a life depending on others. I'd like to see him figure out who he is and what he stands for before committing to a partner period.

It is normal to have mixed feelings that wax and wane--all humans do and dealing with such is a part of maturity.


----------



## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, there is still a restraining order out against her I don't know what is going on with her court crap I haven't bothered keeping up with any of it anymore. Yes, she is an ex for a reason but you just can't throw away twelve years of feelings I have been really thinking about talking to her again though. I doubt meg is gonna get pregnant it was only those few times and it took twelve years to even get my ex-pregnant although not even sure it was mine at times. God, I feel really screwed up, It isn't even that I feel cool or important having two chicks in love with me its that I have feelings for both and it makes me feel incredibly screwy. If my ex did see something in Meg I really wish they both would have told me what they were going on and that they both had issues with one another. I still don't know what I will do in all honesty but something is drawing me towards meg and it just feels easy with her vs working everything out with my ex if that was even a possibility.


Would Meg really be a rebound if you do love her?

You are in love with a image you had of your ex, she proved that image to be false. That is why it was work to keep the relationship. 

It is easy with Meg because you see who she really is. 

You are conflicted because your heart is being drawn to someone you don’t want to hurt while you don’t want to be hurt again as well. 

Make a list of what your ex did to you and read it every time you think you want to talk with her.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Hopefully, everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. No, she wouldn't be a rebound if I really do love her but there isn't a way for me to know that this early. And even if I do want to be with her I honestly couldn't I just feel like the optics of that would be awful. Not to mention I really do want to talk to my ex and have a civilized conversation and try and figure out what actually happened. Although I honestly don't think that will happen even if that relationship was reparable which I don't I just feel like it is too far broken for that. But Back to the meg crap, I showed up to my parents for Thanksgiving today and they had invited her over for Thanksgiving since her family is currently out of town. Just wish they had let me know before they had gone and done that. It made the whole day really awkward. I guess that is more my fault since I was trying not to have any strange conversations with meg when we are surrounded by family and all. But having avoided everyone for a week including meg made things strange.


----------



## sunsetmist

Perhaps, you should have a talk with your parents about your boundaries at the current time. Guessing they have an agenda too. I'm feeling bad for you over this...


----------



## threelittlestars

sunsetmist said:


> Perhaps, you should have a talk with your parents about your boundaries at the current time. Guessing they have an agenda too. I'm feeling bad for you over this...


They may really like her and what not, but I bet they dont know their son had confused rebound sex unprotected with her. If they knew I bet they would be a little miffed at the behavior. Inviting her over for family thanksgiving tells me THEY LIKE HER.


----------



## Cynthia

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Hopefully, everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. No, she wouldn't be a rebound if I really do love her but there isn't a way for me to know that this early.* And even if I do want to be with her I honestly couldn't I just feel like the optics of that would be awful.* Not to mention I really do want to talk to my ex and have a civilized conversation and try and figure out what actually happened. Although I honestly don't think that will happen even if that relationship was reparable which I don't I just feel like it is too far broken for that. But Back to the meg crap, I showed up to my parents for Thanksgiving today and they had invited her over for Thanksgiving since her family is currently out of town. Just wish they had let me know before they had gone and done that. It made the whole day really awkward. I guess that is more my fault since I was trying not to have any strange conversations with meg when we are surrounded by family and all. But having avoided everyone for a week including meg made things strange.


Newsflash: You have already been with her. You should have thought about that before. Now you're worried about how this is going to look to others. That ship has sailed. People around you obviously know that something is going on and they apparently want you to be with Meg. No one seems to be upset that you left your fiancee. I think you are making excuses for not dealing with the situation you have made with Meg. You don't want to lose Meg, but on the other hand you don't really want to be with her romantically. Being friends with benefits seems to suit you, but it doesn't suit her. You have severely limited your choices by choosing to sleep with Meg. You cannot go back to being platonic friends. That's gone. Deal with the reality of your situation.

You need to find a therapist that you connect with who can help you through all this.

Going to your ex will do nothing for you, especially since you have a restraining order against her. Stop making foolish choices or things are going to get progressively worse rather than improving.


----------



## Oceania

CynthiaDe said:


> Newsflash: *You have already been with her. You should have thought about that before. *
> 
> *To be fair to OP she moved in on him to the extent of having unprotected sex.*
> 
> Now you're worried about how this is going to look to others. That ship has sailed. *People around you obviously know that something is going on and they apparently want you to be with Meg.*
> 
> *Is this referencing Thanksgiving? If so, she knew OP had asked for space, yet she didn't think to give OP a call in advance to let him know she'd be there? I mean she was ringing OP constantly right? You know, just so that he wouldn't be caught off guard or unawares. Or was that her intention? I digress. If his parents or family want them to be together as suggested here, then isn't that something that would be clear as day to OP? Perhaps he can answer that.*
> 
> *No one seems to be upset that you left your fiancee.*
> 
> *This would appear to be the case and that is understandable. No one wants to see a loved one in pain or distress so the natural reaction would be to flip it as quickly as possible. Sometimes though, it's no more than just a band aid.*
> 
> *I think you are making excuses for not dealing with the situation you have made with Meg*. You don't want to lose Meg, but on the other hand you don't really want to be with her romantically. *Being friends with benefits seems to suit you, but it doesn't suit her.* You have severely limited your choices by choosing to sleep with Meg.
> 
> *Again, to be fair to OP it was Meg who initiated the change to their friendship.*
> 
> *You cannot go back to being platonic friends. That's gone. Deal with the reality of your situation.*
> 
> *Well no, they cannot go back to being platonic friends. Meg has admitted that she has viewed him as something more than a platonic friend for years! OP's reality is the lens through which he now has to view both GF and Meg.*
> 
> *You need to find a therapist that you connect with who can help you through all this.*
> 
> *A situation that called for this some time back.*
> 
> Going to your ex will do nothing for you, especially since you have *a restraining order against her*.
> 
> *OP if a restraining order means that violating it even by YOU contacting her then you may have to consider the timing of WHEN to talk to her if you do. As of when it lapses. Why? GF being in jail for an assault that came about because of recent events would have been a blow. If there has been no previous violence by GF before these events, then to my mind this needs to be viewed in context.*
> 
> *Stop making foolish choices or things are going to get progressively worse rather than improving.*
> 
> *OP has already dealt with so much. He needs clarity. Now whether that means he needs to know or understand what went before so that he can move forward, well I'm not going to hold that against him.*


It looks as though I am constantly casting shade on Meg. TBH it is not my intention. But she needs to give OP space. Otherwise she looks as though, not only is she moving in on him, but on top of that she is starting to look DESPERATE. Why?


----------



## Cynthia

@CmonDionne, I’m not casting blame on @Loyaltyaboveallelse. It’s not about blame. It’s about taking personal responsibility for one’s part. It doesn’t matter how hard things have been, each of us is still required to take personal responsibility.

Loyaltyaboveallelse is a grown man who is making choices. He has not been forced by Meg into anything. Yes, she appears desperate and she has not left him alone. That’s not fair, especially when Loyalty’s parents invited her to Thanksgiving dinner. That really doesn’t seem right and isn’t helpful at all. But, the fact remains that Loyalty is in charge of his own life and his own decisions. Our true character comes out in pressured situations.

Loyalty already had a therapist, but didn’t feel it was helping. I’m recommending he find a new therapist.

Somewhere back in the thread, OP mentioned that his family didn’t really want him with his ex-fiancée in the first place, but they seem to welcome Meg in with open arms. (Loyalty, correct me here if I’m wrong about this.) Sometimes family motives can be difficult to ascertain, but if the family is really looking out for Loyalty’s best interests and they know him and Meg well, then perhaps they are seeing something that none of us internet strangers could see or know. They have known Meg for many years and think she is good for Loyalty or they wouldn’t have invited her.

I don't know whether it's a good idea to stick with Meg in the long run or not, but if you don't, you will lose her entirely. It does seem like a good idea to put some distance between the two of you for at least a couple of weeks, but that's going to be tough during the holidays. You are in a difficult position right now, but everyone faces hardship in life and you will get through it. Don't be a hurry to feel better or to get your situation resolved. Take it one day at a time and be patient.


----------



## Oceania

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't know whether it's a good idea to stick with Meg in the long run or not, but if you don't, you will lose her entirely. It does seem like a good idea to put some distance between the two of you for at least a couple of weeks, but that's going to be tough during the holidays. You are in a difficult position right now, but everyone faces hardship in life and you will get through it. Don't be a hurry to feel better or to get your situation resolved. Take it one day at a time and be patient.


Oh I don't think there's any chance of her leaving. She'll stick around for as long as she needs to.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Not wanting to get back with her I just think perhaps I can get some answers and closure and have a meaningful conversation with her. I have been thinking about going and seeing if I can have the restraining order dropped against her. But that is more so because I feel bad about it all feel bad for her being in this legal trouble as well as having to take out a restraining order. Meg showed up to my house yesterday was actually waiting for me when I pulled up, And She confronted me on why I was being so distant and I explained and we talked for a few hours and I agreed I would attempt to try it with her dating wise but that she would have to work with me as I am still working through a lot in my own head and that I honestly might not be in the best shape dating wise but she didn't care she wants to try and at this point I don't really have anything to lose. She tried getting me into bed but I told her no and surprisingly she didn't fight me and respected it.


----------



## threelittlestars

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not wanting to get back with her I just think perhaps I can get some answers and closure and have a meaningful conversation with her. I have been thinking about going and seeing if I can have the restraining order dropped against her. But that is more so because I feel bad about it all feel bad for her being in this legal trouble as well as having to take out a restraining order. Meg showed up to my house yesterday was actually waiting for me when I pulled up, And She confronted me on why I was being so distant and I explained and we talked for a few hours and I agreed I would attempt to try it with her dating wise but that she would have to work with me as I am still working through a lot in my own head and that I honestly might not be in the best shape dating wise but she didn't care she wants to try and at this point I don't really have anything to lose. She tried getting me into bed but I told her no and surprisingly she didn't fight me and respected it.


Im not gonna lie, her pushiness is getting to me. (MEG) she cant just give you a little square of space. But I dont advise you any which way. It could work with Meg, it could fail. 50/50 in my book.


----------



## Oceania

threelittlestars said:


> Im not gonna lie, her pushiness is getting to me. (MEG) she cant just give you a little square of space. But I dont advise you any which way. It could work with Meg, it could fail. 50/50 in my book.


You could be right on the 50/50 call. Just so long as he never twigs to the fact that he was railroaded, he should be fine.


----------



## Oceania

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not wanting to get back with her I just think perhaps I can get some answers and closure and have a meaningful conversation with her. I have been thinking about going and seeing if I can have the restraining order dropped against her. But that is more so because I feel bad about it all feel bad for her being in this legal trouble as well as having to take out a restraining order. Meg showed up to my house yesterday was actually waiting for me when I pulled up, And She confronted me on why I was being so distant and I explained and we talked for a few hours and I agreed I would attempt to try it with her dating wise but that she would have to work with me as I am still working through a lot in my own head and that I honestly might not be in the best shape dating wise but she didn't care she wants to try and at this point I don't really have anything to lose. She tried getting me into bed but I told her no and *surprisingly she didn't fight me and respected it*.


Ah huh ... She is well on her way to getting her way. And respect? That's not respect.

I wonder how much of the above was going on in the background between GF and Meg.

That'd be enough to drive anyone around the bend.


----------



## Blondilocks

CmonDionne said:


> Oh I don't think there's any chance of her leaving. *She'll stick around *for as long as she needs to.


Like bubblegum on a hot sidewalk. Bunny boiler, I tell ya. Wonder when the suicide threats will start.


----------



## BluesPower

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not wanting to get back with her I just think perhaps I can get some answers and closure and have a meaningful conversation with her. I have been thinking about going and seeing if I can have the restraining order dropped against her. But that is more so because I feel bad about it all feel bad for her being in this legal trouble as well as having to take out a restraining order. Meg showed up to my house yesterday was actually waiting for me when I pulled up, And She confronted me on why I was being so distant and I explained and we talked for a few hours and I agreed I would attempt to try it with her dating wise but that she would have to work with me as I am still working through a lot in my own head and that I honestly might not be in the best shape dating wise but she didn't care she wants to try and at this point I don't really have anything to lose. She tried getting me into bed but I told her no and surprisingly she didn't fight me and respected it.


You have got to leave your ex alone, for god's sake. 

You owe her nothing, not one thing. She aborted your baby, or she cheated. She assaulted you multiple times. 

And you want to save her... Why? 

If you still care for her then you need to let the courts system work, she needs to face her consequences, she needs to work out her life on her own. 

You want to talk to her, Why? You now have complete proof that she is crazy, really crazy. Do you think she will own up to cheating on you? No. Do you think she will provide a reason for the abortion that you can ever believe or accept? No. So you think she can explain why she assaulted you and why she will never do that again? No. 

So why in the hell would you ever want to talk to her again. What could you possible get from her that would help? 

The answer is nothing. 

The fact is that it is more likely that she cheated, got pregnant, freaked out, had unprotected sex with you and the got an abortion to cover it all up. Then when you would not accept her BS she went insane. 

Is that your fault? No it is not. It never will be.

Please just get this woman out of your mind and your life...


----------



## sunsetmist

BluesPower said:


> You have got to leave your ex alone, for god's sake.
> 
> You owe her nothing, not one thing. She aborted your baby, or she cheated. She assaulted you multiple times.
> 
> And you want to save her... Why?
> 
> If you still care for her then you need to let the courts system work, she needs to face her consequences, she needs to work out her life on her own.
> 
> You want to talk to her, Why? You now have complete proof that she is crazy, really crazy. Do you think she will own up to cheating on you? No. Do you think she will provide a reason for the abortion that you can ever believe or accept? No. So you think she can explain why she assaulted you and why she will never do that again? No.
> 
> So why in the hell would you ever want to talk to her again. What could you possible get from her that would help?
> 
> The answer is nothing.
> 
> The fact is that it is more likely that she cheated, got pregnant, freaked out, had unprotected sex with you and the got an abortion to cover it all up. Then when you would not accept her BS she went insane.
> 
> Is that your fault? No it is not. It never will be.
> 
> Please just get this woman out of your mind and your life...


 @Loyaltyaboveallelse won't let it go, no matter what advice is given. His personality is such that he needs to examine and re-examine every detail in search of closure. He, too, is OK with Meg's relentless march to, in one way or another, snag him. He second-guesses and rarely completely closes a door for fear that it will be the wrong choice.

Making and sticking with absolute decisions is beyond his ability at this time.


----------



## syhoybenden

Jeeeeez.

Too many people on this thread have strayed from objectivity and advising to going all judgemental and heaping vituperation upon this poor guy.

Stop taking so many cheap shots.

He came here for help. Not to be your practice target.


----------



## Cynthia

CmonDionne said:


> Oh I don't think there's any chance of her leaving. She'll stick around for as long as she needs to.


I don't think he has any chance of losing Meg unless he decides not to be with her romantically and gets involved with another woman who will not tolerate Meg in his life. I don't know of any women who would tolerate a former lover in their man's life, but it could happen. I don't think it would be healthy though.



Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Not wanting to get back with her I just think perhaps I can get some answers and closure and have a meaningful conversation with her. I have been thinking about going and seeing if I can have the restraining order dropped against her. But that is more so because I feel bad about it all feel bad for her being in this legal trouble as well as having to take out a restraining order. Meg showed up to my house yesterday was actually waiting for me when I pulled up, And She confronted me on why I was being so distant and I explained and we talked for a few hours and I agreed I would attempt to try it with her dating wise but that she would have to work with me as I am still working through a lot in my own head and that I honestly might not be in the best shape dating wise but she didn't care she wants to try and at this point I don't really have anything to lose. She tried getting me into bed but I told her no and surprisingly she didn't fight me and respected it.


You are thinking way too deeply about this whole situation. You will never fully understand what has happened. When you are dealing with someone who lies and someone who does not have your best interests at heart that person's words are unreliable. Basing any conclusions on what an unreliable person says is pointless. It's an exercise in futility and will ultimately lead to more pain and confusion. Being lied to doesn't bring closure.

I'm not against deep thinking. I am against living your life deep in your mind all the time. That is a form of sleep. Wake up and pay attention to what is going on around you right now and to focusing on what you are doing right now. Think about what you have to do today and pay attention to the sight and smells around you right now. Don't analyze them. Simply pay attention. Be mindful.

Meg didn't fight you when you said you did not want sex. Wow. She is not entitled to have sex with you. Of course she shouldn't fight with you. This is very dysfunctional. She isn't actually your girlfriend, but she is acting like you two are having marriage problems.


----------



## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I have always been pretty analytical though and always attempted to deeply think things through, A lot of people think it is because of my Aspergers. Which is probably why I am not the best when it comes to social and relationship things. Used to be a lot worse then this and I have grown and gotten better. I am sorry I am not handling this the perfect way and not just moving on and such I am trying my best. Not sure why I keep having digs thrown my way I do listen to the advice given and take it to heart. My ex really felt she was entitled to sex which is probably why I was kinda surprised meg didn't fight me on it. It isn't that I want to save my ex I just feel like that with time maybe she has chilled out and could possibly actually have a talk with her rather than her trying to attack me and just lose her mind. But you guys are probably right shouldn't even bother with all of that and just let that door stay slammed shut.


----------



## Andy1001

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I have always been pretty analytical though and always attempted to deeply think things through, A lot of people think it is because of my Aspergers. Which is probably why I am not the best when it comes to social and relationship things. Used to be a lot worse then this and I have grown and gotten better. I am sorry I am not handling this the perfect way and not just moving on and such I am trying my best. Not sure why I keep having digs thrown my way I do listen to the advice given and take it to heart. My ex really felt she was entitled to sex which is probably why I was kinda surprised meg didn't fight me on it. It isn't that I want to save my ex I just feel like that with time maybe she has chilled out and could possibly actually have a talk with her rather than her trying to attack me and just lose her mind. But you guys are probably right shouldn't even bother with all of that and just let that door stay slammed shut.


You are under no obligation to take anyone’s advice on this or any other forum.
You have to do what feels right for you.
I have never been in this type of situation so I am unable to really know what is going through your mind.
The one thing I would tell you is this.You have lost a child and you haven’t mourned her.This is not healthy and may come back to haunt you in the future.
Whether your girlfriend cheated and the baby wasn’t yours is immaterial,you thought it was your child and now he or she is gone.
This needs to be resolved in your head before you decide anything else.


----------



## harperlee

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Anyways we have both always wanted kids but we were waiting until after we got married which we have been saving money for the wedding and so we have been practicing a lot of safe sex BC condoms the whole nine yards. Well, a while ago she told me she wanted to have sex without the condom and not to worry she was still on her BC as well. So I said what the hell, anyways a little bit after that she told me she was pregnant and it was a shock I am not going to lie with how careful we have been. Well, she confessed she didn't use the morning after pill and she had stopped taking her BC. So I was naturally quite angry. But that subsided and I was honestly really excited about becoming a father. But then she drops the bombshell that she had gone and gotten an abortion without even freaking talking to me. Because she didn't want me to be angry at her or be resentful of this child.





Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> About three months after give or take around late July she said she was pregnant, but She didn't drop the abortion bombshell on me until last week. We normally have had amazing communication at least I thought we had. She has never been deceptive or lied to me like this before. And she has been pushier of late about getting married even wanting to forgo the big wedding and just elope. I hadn't put much thought into it honestly because after 12 years whats a little longer of a wait honestly?


These two quotes have formulated a hypothesis for me regarding your ex fiance Loyalty. I have the opinion that either one of two options have occurred:
1. She was never pregnant but in an effort to push the marriage forward (ie, the tried and true, I'm pregnant!) lied about being pregnant. Your anger was counter productive but rather than the good old fashioned miscarry, a spiteful abortion instead. None of which actually occurred.
2. She did in fact get pregnant but your angry reaction hurt her, she felt rejected and an actual spiteful abortion did occur.

Both of these possibilities are childish and not conducive to a healthy partnership or marriage. In fact, they are quite manipulative. Which leads me to another observation about you Loyalty. Every person in this thread seems to manipulate you. Your ex fiance, your friends (remember that awful night with your friends that lead to your ex's arrest?), Meg, and lastly, your parents by inviting Meg to Thanksgiving behind your back. 
Apparently, everyone in your life knows what's best for you...except you.

Loyalty, if there is one offering of advice I can give you, please take some time to get to know your self and what YOU want. Your life will continue to swirl with uncertainty and subsequent chaos until you determine your own boundaries and your own needs.

Please revisit counseling. Not every counselor is a proper fit and often it takes several efforts to find a good match. You must become your own man and you need guidance from an OBJECTIVE person.

Best wishes.


----------



## MattMatt

harperlee said:


> These two quotes have formulated a hypothesis for me regarding your ex fiance Loyalty. I have the opinion that either one of two options have occurred:
> 1. She was never pregnant but in an effort to push the marriage forward (ie, the tried and true, I'm pregnant!) lied about being pregnant. Your anger was counter productive but rather than the good old fashioned miscarry, a spiteful abortion instead. None of which actually occurred.
> 2. She did in fact get pregnant but your angry reaction hurt her, she felt rejected and an actual spiteful abortion did occur.
> 
> Both of these possibilities are childish and not conducive to a healthy partnership or marriage. In fact, they are quite manipulative. Which leads me to another observation about you Loyalty. Every person in this thread seems to manipulate you. Your ex fiance, your friends (remember that awful night with your friends that lead to your ex's arrest?), Meg, and lastly, your parents by inviting Meg to Thanksgiving behind your back.
> Apparently, everyone in your life knows what's best for you...except you.
> 
> Loyalty, if there is one offering of advice I can give you, please take some time to get to know your self and what YOU want. Your life will continue to swirl with uncertainty and subsequent chaos until you determine your own boundaries and your own needs.
> 
> Please revisit counseling. Not every counselor is a proper fit and often it takes several efforts to find a good match. You must become your own man and you need guidance from an OBJECTIVE person.
> 
> Best wishes.


Or maybe the abortion lie was the first thing that popped into her head?

And that's the problem when you make something up like that. There's really no coming back from it, is there?


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## Cynthia

@Loyaltyaboveallelse, I know you don't need to feel criticized. Right now you are having a hard time, but you will get through this. I tend to think through everything to the enth degree, which often times is not helpful when something bad happens. It's hard to move forward when you have to analyze every little detail. I have learned that much of those details do not really matter. What does matter is how you were treated and that's really the gist of it. You were treated badly and there is no coming back from what happened. Going back to talk to the ex will not help you get closure. It will only bring up more questions.

As far as Meg, that's another thing that you should not think too deeply about every aspect now. You are in a situation that you had not planned. You practically feel into Meg's arms when you were in distress and now your relationship with her has changed forever. You are not in an emergency situation. Take some breaths and then take it one day at a time. Be honest, but don't over think things either.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

I don't know what I am going to do at this point just trying my best right now. I do want some final answers from my ex but I feel like I am going to keep that door shut for now. I feel really guilty with myself for feeling how I do towards Meg right now and that is probably why I am just going with the flow with her for now at least. I have mourned for my dead baby but I haven't talked about it with anyone because it feels strange to cry for a child that I never met or even got to see. But I tried explaining that to my former therapist and they just made me feel awkward for it and probably what drove my depression further into the hole. I haven't been single in forever and so when Meg came along it felt like it was making me whole again after losing my ex, ya know?


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## MattMatt

You have every right to mourn. Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise.

The counsellor might have found it difficult to acknowledge your right to mourn as this vould have clashed with their ideal that abortion is a matter of the woman's right to choose.

Meaning they allowed their "liberal" attitude to impinge on their ability to provide you with the help that you needed.


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## Blondilocks

You haven't stated exactly what your therapist said to you in regards to mourning; but, no one in good conscience would encourage you to mourn the death of a child if there was any doubt that a pregnancy had actually occurred. This is why you were encouraged to determine the actual facts of the situation from the get-go.

It is doubtful that your ex would come completely clean with you in regards to the whole situation now because she would be in face-saving mode. You've been handed a crap sandwich for sure. 

I'm sorry to tell you but neither of these women truly love you. You deserve better and will find it when you disentangle yourself from this dysfunctional three-some you have been engaged in.


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## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Hopefully, everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. No, she wouldn't be a rebound if I really do love her but there isn't a way for me to know that this early. And even if I do want to be with her I honestly couldn't I just feel like the optics of that would be awful. Not to mention I really do want to talk to my ex and have a civilized conversation and try and figure out what actually happened. Although I honestly don't think that will happen even if that relationship was reparable which I don't I just feel like it is too far broken for that. But Back to the meg crap, I showed up to my parents for Thanksgiving today and they had invited her over for Thanksgiving since her family is currently out of town. Just wish they had let me know before they had gone and done that. It made the whole day really awkward. I guess that is more my fault since I was trying not to have any strange conversations with meg when we are surrounded by family and all. But having avoided everyone for a week including meg made things strange.


You made everything strange. Stop over analyzing everything. Deep breath and let it out. 

With your ex, she will never tell you the truth. She will only mess you up in your head if you talk with her. 

Stop over thinking everything. Spend quality with Meg. Have fun and see what you feel in 3 - 6 months down the line. You are actually doing a 180 on Meg, that is used to break emotional ties.


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## ABHale

Something else to think of. 

Why didn’t your ex go BS crazy when Meg was staying with you? 

Could it be that she knew she had no right to complain about something she is doing herself.


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## personofinterest

MattMatt said:


> You have every right to mourn. Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise.
> 
> The counsellor might have found it difficult to acknowledge your right to mourn as this vould have clashed with their ideal that abortion is a matter of the woman's right to choose.
> 
> Meaning they allowed their "liberal" attitude to impinge on their ability to provide you with the help that you needed.


YUP

In fact, it strikes me as odd when someone who is staunchly prochoice mourns a miscarriage. I mean....is it a baby or isn't it???

Bottom line, as far as what you have been told, your ex ended the life of a child that was yours. That is worth mourning.


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## Cynthia

Blondilocks said:


> You haven't stated exactly what your therapist said to you in regards to mourning; but, no one in good conscience would encourage you to mourn the death of a child if there was any doubt that a pregnancy had actually occurred. This is why you were encouraged to determine the actual facts of the situation from the get-go.
> 
> It is doubtful that your ex would come completely clean with you in regards to the whole situation now because she would be in face-saving mode. You've been handed a crap sandwich for sure.


Seriously!? He cannot grieve the loss of his child because he's not even sure he lost the child, yet you follow up that comment with saying that he cannot trust the woman who has told him that she killed his child. I agree he cannot trust her, so he will never know if he lost a child or not, but according to his ex, he has lost a child.

Many men grieve the loss of children aborted. To tell them that they have no right to grieve or that there is no purpose in it is to deny them of their closure. Men have a right to grieve over the loss of their children, especially when they have no voice and no way to protect their children. This whole situation is fraught with trauma to the father who has no rights. I can only imagine the pain you're in @Loyaltyaboveallelse. I'm sorry for your loss and recommend that you look into help with this grieving process. Here is a link to a group called Men and Abortion Network: Men and Abortion - An Initiative of Life Issues Institute

I don't blame you for not wanting to continue with a therapist who dismisses your grief and think you are right to look for someone who recognizes the pain you are in and knows how to help you move through it.

I don't know if Meg loves you are not, but one thing I do know is that love is not more concerned with herself than she is with the one she loves. Is she patient with you? Is she kind? Is she self seeking or does she have your best interests at heart? These are all important questions when making decisions about relationships.


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## Blondilocks

CynthiaDe said:


> Seriously!? He cannot grieve the loss of his child because he's not even sure he lost the child, yet you follow up that comment with saying that he cannot trust the woman who has told him that she killed his child. I agree he cannot trust her, so he will never know if he lost a child or not, but according to his ex, he has lost a child.
> 
> Many men grieve the loss of children aborted. To tell them that they have no right to grieve or that there is no purpose in it is to deny them of their closure. Men have a right to grieve over the loss of their children, especially when they have no voice and no way to protect their children. This whole situation is fraught with trauma to the father who has no rights. I can only imagine the pain you're in @Loyaltyaboveallelse. I'm sorry for your loss and recommend that you look into help with this grieving process. Here is a link to a group called Men and Abortion Network: Men and Abortion - An Initiative of Life Issues Institute
> 
> I don't blame you for not wanting to continue with a therapist who dismisses your grief and think you are right to look for someone who recognizes the pain you are in and knows how to help you move through it.
> 
> I don't know if Meg loves you are not, but one thing I do know is that love is not more concerned with herself than she is with the one she loves. Is she patient with you? Is she kind? Is she self seeking or does she have your best interests at heart? These are all important questions when making decisions about relationships.


Just because you would counsel a client who is on the verge of suicide to mourn a possible abortion doesn't mean it would be a wise course of action for that client at that time.


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## Cynthia

Blondilocks said:


> Just because you would counsel a client who is on the verge of suicide to mourn a possible abortion doesn't mean it would be a wise course of action for that client at that time.


This man believes that his child was killed by his fiancee. He was so upset by it that he broke up with her and you are saying that not dealing with his grief and pain, but instead pretending that it didn't happen is the right course of action. That is some serious disconnect. I don't think that denial is a good way to deal with the pain of a suicidal person. A person in deep pain needs help in facing and working through what is hurting.


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## Blondilocks

CynthiaDe said:


> This man believes that his child was killed by his fiancee. He was so upset by it that he broke up with her and *you are saying that not dealing with his grief and pain, but instead pretending that it didn't happen is the right course of action*. That is some serious disconnect. I don't think that denial is a good way to deal with the pain of a suicidal person. A person in deep pain needs help in facing and working through what is hurting.


No, I'm not and no I didn't. What I am saying is that his therapist didn't feel it was an appropriate step to take at that time. You weren't there so you can't second guess the therapist. And, none of us are his current therapist. He needs to get back into therapy.


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## Rubix Cubed

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> I do want some final answers from my ex but I feel like I am going to keep that door shut for now.


 You are NEVER going to get "final answers" all you are going to get is a brain **** that will only leave you with *even more questions*. Quit while you're ahead and keep NO CONTACT with your Ex. She's dangerous and toxic and offers nothing but more pain for you. The restraining order is there for a reason. Be done with her.


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## MJJEAN

@Loyaltyaboveallelse

Hun, on top of being betrayed in a most vile manner by someone who is BSC you're also all turned around and confused partly because you're almost clueless when it comes to dating and mating. Which is to be expected as you have almost zero relationship experience. You've had one..one!.. adult relationship. Most people, and I mean the vast majority, date, fall in love, break up, learn to get on with their lives, and learn about themselves and relationships in the process many times between High School and when they marry, which is usually in the later 20's to early 30's. 

Dating, thinking it's lifelong love, that we've found "the one" so early, breaking up, having sex with a close friend or two immediately after, and the resulting fallout was something I did and watched my friends do when we were between 16 and 22.

A lot of us learned around the same time that very close opposite sex friends and committed relationships don't usually mix well, especially if the "friendship" once included sex. Typically, the relationship suffers or the friendship suffers. One or both usually ends when all is said and done.

And, again learned through experience you never had, most of us learned through our own actions or through observation that having sex with a friend changes the friendship forever. Once the barrier is crossed it cannot be uncrossed. Few friendships survive intact long term after that. The only friendships that survived sex I know of were between people who were genuinely emotionally just friends and the sex was purely physical on both sides.

You're a very late bloomer. You're making the classic mistakes all at once, it seems. You need to slow down. Develop a new hobby, take up weight lifting to go with your running, meet some new people, update your clothes...whatever you want. Spend less time with Meg and more time exploring life and yourself solo. Pursue a relationship with her if you want, but DO NOT let it become the focus of your life. Learn to be an independent adult with interests and passions. Certainly see Meg, but not more than once or twice a week for a while with a bit less contact during the week via text and calls. You need to come into your own before you can be a good mate to anyone.

And, for the love of God, stay away from your ex. Either she killed your child without even asking your opinion or she cheated and killed someone else's child. There isn't any fixing that, either way. To add some spice, she also physically assaulted you more than once. She can't offer you closure. Closure is found within yourself. All she can offer you is darkness, uncertainty, doubt, and a mind****. Stay away!


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## MattMatt

Blondilocks said:


> You haven't stated exactly what your therapist said to you in regards to mourning; but, no one in good conscience would encourage you to mourn the death of a child if there was any doubt that a pregnancy had actually occurred. This is why you were encouraged to determine the actual facts of the situation from the get-go.
> 
> It is doubtful that your ex would come completely clean with you in regards to the whole situation now because she would be in face-saving mode. You've been handed a crap sandwich for sure.
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you but neither of these women truly love you. You deserve better and will find it when you disentangle yourself from this dysfunctional three-some you have been engaged in.


A good counsellor would able to help someone grieve in a safe, controlled way.


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## Blondilocks

MattMatt said:


> A good counsellor would able to help someone grieve in a safe, controlled way.


Yes, if the client sticks around. He needs to go back to therapy. We don't know if what the therapist said upset him before or after he was hospitalized for anxiety. He can always get a different therapist if he feels he was not connecting with his previous therapist. 

Second guessing what transpired in his sessions is like Monday morning quarterbacking except there are no replays to illustrate what went down.


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## FieryHairedLady

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Yes, there is still a restraining order out against her I don't know what is going on with her court crap I haven't bothered keeping up with any of it anymore. Yes, she is an ex for a reason but you just can't throw away twelve years of feelings I have been really thinking about talking to her again though. I doubt meg is gonna get pregnant it was only those few times and it took twelve years to even get my ex-pregnant although not even sure it was mine at times. God, I feel really screwed up, It isn't even that I feel cool or important having two chicks in love with me its that I have feelings for both and it makes me feel incredibly screwy. If my ex did see something in Meg I really wish they both would have told me what they were going on and that they both had issues with one another. I still don't know what I will do in all honesty but something is drawing me towards meg and it just feels easy with her vs working everything out with my ex if that was even a possibility.


Just keep in mind it only takes one time to make a baby. I read parts of your thread, not all. One woman can have trouble conceiving and another woman can have an easy time. Some women's birth control works better, or is used more regularly.

Anyhow. Yes 12 years is a LONG time. You need counseling and help. Everything that has transpired recently leads to the conclusion something is seriously wrong with your ex gf. She is toxic.

She either killed your child, or someone else's. 

She beat you up. 

She needs help.

Whether or not Meg is a good match for you I don't know. 

You need to get help and get straight in your head again.

I wish you the best.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Counseling/Therapy didn't help me and just made me worse I have no desire to go down that road again. What is the point in going to something that makes you worse? I certainly don't see the point in that nonsense. I am still taking the meds but they don't seem to be helping either so really debating quitting on those. I lost my ex I really don't wanna lose Meg she is my closest friend and alley. If she really is still my alley and not just looking out for herself. I did talk to my parents though, They really like meg obviously and always have and feel she is who I should have ended up with from the beginning but that they would back off and let me forge my own path. They apologized for inviting her over and making things awkward. It makes me really angry everyone seems to have an ulterior motives and can't just give me some space to make my own decisions in life and when they do it isn't ever good enough or the best decision to make.


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## syhoybenden

Go with your heart.

It's the honest thing to do.

Love is always a risk, but it is the one risk worth taking.


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## DjDjani

Listen O.P., forget about everything these biter people are telling you. I will give you the best advice, just forget about ex gf and be with Meg,you will see in time that she is also the true love of your life. You are the love of her life,she will never abandon you or cheat on you and she will always love you. Be with her and enjoy a happy life.


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## DjDjani

Other people are just yelous because you find a perfect girl right away. Go be with Meg and live a happy life.


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## Loyaltyaboveallelse

Sorry I haven't posted to this in a while. Just been pretty depressed and having a lot of people try and push me in a million different directions just takes its toll on a person mentally and physically. Just feel like there was a lot of people trying to sabotage my relationship with my ex now it really is bothering me at this point pretty badly. I mean what is done is done but seeing all the support for me to get with Meg is really bothering me because it just reinforces that belief pretty badly ya know.


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## sokillme

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't posted to this in a while. Just been pretty depressed and having a lot of people try and push me in a million different directions just takes its toll on a person mentally and physically. Just feel like there was a lot of people trying to sabotage my relationship with my ex now it really is bothering me at this point pretty badly. I mean what is done is done but seeing all the support for me to get with Meg is really bothering me because it just reinforces that belief pretty badly ya know.


Your ex possibly killed your child without telling you, or she had another man's child killed so she didn't have to tell you. She also beat you up because you wouldn't take you back. 

I think they were right.

Seriously dude quit romanticizing this crazy women. You always deserved better. There is something wrong that you don't get that. I think the others in your life can see it. Yet for some crazy reason you still pick her. What does she have to do to make you see she was NOT a good choice? Kill you?

You need counseling to get some perspective. 

You my friend are at a crossroads. Either you get some counseling and (to be blunt) grow up, or you are going to have a very hard life. It's OK to be sad and miss her but it's NOT OK to act like she wasn't a good choice or somehow there was any possibility that you would have been happily ever after. 

Let's get some perspective here. A women who beats up someone for whatever reason is not, IS NOT going to make a good wife an mother. This is why I say you need to grow up. Seriously dude I know that probably pisses you off, but it's laughable. 

Common man, you have your whole life ahead of you, but snap out of it!


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## Luminous

How is that distancing coming along?

You are, but a leaf in a storm...

Be the weathered tree instead! You have da power!


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## skerzoid

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't posted to this in a while. Just been pretty depressed and having a lot of people try and push me in a million different directions just takes its toll on a person mentally and physically. Just feel like there was a lot of people trying to sabotage my relationship with my ex now it really is bothering me at this point pretty badly. I mean what is done is done but seeing all the support for me to get with Meg is really bothering me because it just reinforces that belief pretty badly ya know.


Uh...:|

I'm out.


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## ABHale

Loyaltyaboveallelse said:


> Sorry I haven't posted to this in a while. Just been pretty depressed and having a lot of people try and push me in a million different directions just takes its toll on a person mentally and physically. Just feel like there was a lot of people trying to sabotage my relationship with my ex now it really is bothering me at this point pretty badly. I mean what is done is done but seeing all the support for me to get with Meg is really bothering me because it just reinforces that belief pretty badly ya know.


Or your family and friends just want you to be happy. 

They know your relationship is over with your ex. 

I don’t think anyone sabotaged your relationship except your ex by her actions. Honestly she did this herself. She chose to not use protection got pregnant and aborted the child.


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## Prodigal

You don't want to try counseling again, said it made you feel worse.

You don't think the medication you are taking is doing any good, so you are considering not taking it any longer.

Lots of people are trying to push you in different directions, so that's taking its toll. 

You think people are attempting to sabotage the relationship you had with your ex.

Sounds to me like you wish to remain in victim mode. Your life. Your choice. Sadly, you see other people as putting you in a down mood. Only YOU have control over your emotions/feelings. Oftentimes, it's not the lousy situation in which we find ourselves, it's how we choose to react to said lousy situation.

I'm outta here. At this point you are doing little more than wallowing in self-pity. Best of luck. You'll need it.


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## Prodigal

And I want to add a P.S. to my post. You can respond to suggestions over and over - as you have - that you have uncles, family, friends supporting you OR you run 1-2 miles every day so you count that as physical activity, OR your short experience with counseling made you worse …

SO YOU DON'T TAKE SUGGESTIONS GIVEN HERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE/TRIED WHATEVER WE SUGGEST. WELL, HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YA???

'Cause it sure as sh** looks like you're in the same place you were when you started posting here.

And, NO, running a mile or two a day is NOT the same as pounding it hard for an hour in a gym. But I'm sure you have a reason/excuse/explanation for that as well.

Again, good luck.


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## Vinnydee

What you have is a fiancé who has no problem lying to you about important matters. As much as you love her, it may not bode well in the future. This was something important that she lied about and that is no way to start a marriage.


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