# Who should be doing all the work in R?



## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

I ask this question because in my current situation my WW appears remorseful at times but then nothing for days on end. Sometimes she has a " why are you still pissed attitude". From alot of posts I've read on this site and a few others, I'm not the only one doing all the work. It makes me more angry at myself and at other BS's, I feel so many of us are in need on a backbone transplant. So am I right in thinking my WS should be kissing my ass until the end of time for what she's done and maybe is still doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

The WS.

Maybe not all, but north of 98.5% of it.

Her attitude is not a good sign.


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## ukf32 (Jul 10, 2012)

I've not read your previous posts so apologies if my comment is way off- 

When I discovered my husband's affair he claimed he did not feel anything of significant depth for the other woman. It was very difficult for me to accept that (i.e. why destroy what we had for something that didn't matter to him?). I think in his own mind he was confident that he had no feelings for her, that it was a mistake etc and him communicating this to me was enough to make me view the affair in the same way. (It wasn't.) Knowing that didn't numb the pain I felt at the time but I wonder if your wife is thinking along the same lines? Like: 'it happened, it was a mistake, I'm over it and you should be too?' 

I think working to repair a marriage torn apart by an affair is (eventually) a mutual thing. But personally I'd be very unhappy if in the initial aftermath they weren't prepared to put in a LOT of hard work.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> It makes me more angry at myself and at other BS's, I feel so many of us are in need on a backbone transplant.


That's a rough way of putting it...

My personal opinion is that, if one is going to try the R thing, which i wouldn't, then the cheater has to do all the remaining work because the BS is already giving enough by giving the marriage a 2nd chance. This also serves as an opportunity for the WS to somehow make amends and prove his/her commitment to the marriage. 

The stories of working R that i've seen described in this board all have in common that it was the WS that demonstrated willingness to work on it.



> Sometimes she has a " why are you still pissed attitude".


Holy cow... Have none of that man...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Only a month ago, this was the scenario.



completely_lost said:


> Your memory is correct. Originally she told me about the 3 year A, then promised to never see him again. Then 5 days ago after putting a VAR in her car I found out that the affair was still happening and in fact never stopped. Of course she did all the right things a WW is suppose to. All she did was carry on the lies longer, she's very good at it. She must be good at lying, she hid a 3 year EA/PA from me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What happened during that time and now that made you change your mind to R instead of D?


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

morituri said:


> Only a month ago, this was the scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> What happened during that time and now that made you change your mind to R instead of D?


Love and money, I still love the woman I married and the mother of my children, I just hate what see did. Also I really don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard for. Should I care about money or material things, no of course not but I do. I get the feeling from some of the posters on this site that when a man cheats on his wife they should be forgiven but when a wife cheats we should just end it. I have some proof my WW has been in contact with her AP but when I confront her about it she has a excuse and again downplayed version or more lies. I truly don't know if I'm coming or going most days. It doesn't help that I have no close friends I feel I can talk to about this.
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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

There is no denying that on this site men are encouraged to leave their (still cheating) wives, but this advice is sometimes tempered or muted when the loyal spouse is a SAHM with young children. I would think the reasons for that distinction are obvious, but in cases where the WS clearly had no intention of changing, the advice has been the same (see the threads of Poppy, Honestly, Arona, Ralk, to name a few).

I am reconciled to my H. And I can tell you that if I had to put up with emotional distance, which I would interpret as a desire to stay for the kids and not for me, I would not bother.

Your choice is to resign yourself to an open marriage and wait it out, it seems. The difference between you and me is that you represent financial security to her. Where are the consequences for what she's done? None. The two of them just mix it up. She parks around the corner from his house now, doesn't talk in the car, etc.

Are you, at a bare minimum, in marriage counseling? What is going on there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

completely_lost said:


> Love and money, I still love the woman I married and the mother of my children, I just hate what see did. Also I really don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard for. Should I care about money or material things, no of course not but I do.


You do realize that you are not the only one who can file for divorce, don't you? If there comes a time she feels or believes that the OM will financially take care of her, then she may well file for divorce. Keep in mind that 70% of all divorce filings are done by women. You may yet find yourself facing divorce, what then?



iheartlife said:


> *Your choice is to resign yourself to an open marriage and wait it out, it seems.* The difference between you and me is that you represent financial security to her. Where are the consequences for what she's done? None. The two of them just mix it up. She parks around the corner from his house now, doesn't talk in the car, etc.


Well said.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sorry brother, but you know what you have to do. This was your post in another thread to someone else. She's not remorseful and you know it, and probably taken it underground. The affair was an LTA yes? That means sex with the OM countless times. You're the back up plan for her.



completely_lost said:


> Ok let me see if I understand this, he had the affair and your doing all the work, is this a correct statement? If so WTF are you doing, IMO there
> Is no R on his part what's so ever and I think if the OW gave him the time of day he'd forget all about you. Sorry if this seems mean but my dear you need IC big time and a back bone. If he was the least bit remorseful he'd be kissing you ass everyday to try to correct the damage he caused. Ask yourself this, Why should he live you when you certainly don't love yourself. Only you can decide how others treat you, would you let a stranger walk all over you and treat you like crap, mostly likely no so why allow you WH to do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm sorry Completely, but it sounds like she's still cheating. Still cake eating, still calling the shots!
Is your financial situation really more important than your dignity!
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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I would have never put up with that attitude.

And I totally agree about some BS's needing to grow a backbone. As far as I am concerned, cheaters should have their butts kicked to the curb, PERIOD. If the BS decides later, after the ws proving themselves over and over, that they will try R, then fine. But none of this sniveling by the BS. Let the WS snivel.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

You can always make more money -- but you can never get back the time that you waste with your cheating wife. Grow a backbone (like the kind that the aliens implant in the humans on 'Falling Skies') and file for divorce. In the long run you'll be richer and happier.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

As a WS I know that from now on everything changes..I am very remorseful and we are 5 mo in R. There are boundaries, there is complete trasparency. I give hubby more attention, I'm more attentive to his need, much more appreciative of him. I help him thru triggers. I reassure my love to him all the time. He also knows that I will not stay in a marriage where he throws it in my face constantly what I did..in other words yes I did an awful thing but our marriage will not work if he emotionally abuses me. Do not want to be miserable every day..that is not a good marriage. But I also want to say.. Hubby has not emotionally abused me at all since our R. He loves me and spends time with me every day, whether it's going for a walk or just talking or going out for a bit to get away from the kids. I love this new relationship we are having but I also know my boundries and that this is my one any only chance.. He has made it very clear that if I ever cheat or even. consider cheating he will divorce me and never look back, as it should be. We are also in counseling. It's been a rough road but we are both working together to keep our marriage going.
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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

R is hard enough with a WS who is doing his / her share. It is near impossible with one who refuses to. FWIW you reserve the right to be pissed as long as you want IMO.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

sorry don't really know your story so not sure if my answer is helpful but anyway there is no way a WS should be in contact with the OM or OW and no more girls night outs..that's my decision because I would hate to have him home worrying or afraid I'm cheating.. I want him to check my phone, I want him to snoop, I want his mind to be free of worrying that I'll do it again. I check in with him when he's at work..I wouldnt even mind if he set up VARs because this way I feel bettr knowing he feels better and knows everything I'm doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with the others. I bet if you dig you'll find she never dropped contact wit the OM. If anything the affair has probably intensified.

Her attitude demonstrates she has checked out on you and has given her love to the OM.

File for divorce and have her served. If getting those papers handed to her by a stranger doesn't shock her into reality then you know the R was never real anyway. 

But in the end, don't teach your kids that it is okay for you partner to disrespect you. End this.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

completely_lost said:


> Love and money, I still love the woman I married and the mother of my children, I just hate what see did. Also I really don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard for. Should I care about money or material things, no of course not but I do. I get the feeling from some of the posters on this site that when a man cheats on his wife they should be forgiven but when a wife cheats we should just end it. I have some proof my WW has been in contact with her AP but when I confront her about it she has a excuse and again downplayed version or more lies. I truly don't know if I'm coming or going most days. It doesn't help that I have no close friends I feel I can talk to about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude, this is your thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/47579-faking-remorse.html


A month and a half ago, you came here and stated that your WW is faking R
You finally got evidence via VAR, that you were right, and she took the affair underground 
You retained the services of a lawyer
You were adamant about filing for D
Then your story ended

You failed to pull the trigger or file for D. Now your WW knows that you won't do it. And you're back here, and back to square 1, where your gut is telling you the affair is still on and she's still not remorseful, and you're complaining about doing all the work in R?










In the beginning of your thread, you stated that your WW refused to send a NC letter to OM. I can assume she still refuses to do so. That's terrible. 

I feel so sorry that you want to live in the hell of limbo. You were doing so well, then you backslided from your hard earned progress. You need to follow your own advice that you give to people. If this were happening to your son, what would you be telling him after seeing his wife treat him like that?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

completely_lost said:


> Love and money, I still love the woman I married and the mother of my children, I just hate what see did. Also I really don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard for. Should I care about money or material things, no of course not but I do. I get the feeling from some of the posters on this site that when a man cheats on his wife they should be forgiven but when a wife cheats we should just end it. I have some proof my WW has been in contact with her AP but when I confront her about it she has a excuse and again downplayed version or more lies. I truly don't know if I'm coming or going most days. It doesn't help that I have no close friends I feel I can talk to about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously, you are describing my story in the first 8 months... Isolated, co-dependant, stupidly in love with a horrible person, and emotionally overwhelmed and confused. Stuck, alone. I did turn it around, yet I have real issues with self-esteem and forgiving myself for being so.... well.... me. My relationship with her is also now fun and completely different than it has been for years. Not reconciled yet, but well on the path.

I am making the assumption that you have leaned toward R. D is an option. But you are stuck. Its not even limbo because there isn’t that zombie state to numb you; Full ranges of emotions pulling you in both directions right?

First things first. Work very hard on yourself and your reflection you see in the mirror. Be the man you wanted to be. Do not be the man you think she wants. Keep at it until you can, with confidence, tell yourself enough is enough and you will not live this way. You must build your own self-esteem and self-confidence to set real boundaries and have the strength to enforce them. This is an absolute requirement. It means you need to get to the point where if a boundary is tested, you will divorce... there is no waffling or caving or making excuses for her anymore.. This growth will serve you well in either a new beginning (D) or in the new marriage you hope to make. The old one is dead.

While working on yourself: *Detach*. I don’t care how you do it or whose soul you need to sell. Grieve your loss. Your goal here is create a bubble where you just don’t care about the marriage, her, or the outcomes. I’ve got no idea how to break you that bad; My wife was a nasty piece of work and did that work for me. 

A man without hope is quite dangerous because you have nothing to lose anymore; I had love, just not any hope she’d change or that the marriage would get any better for me. I rebuilt myself into something new and embraced my darkside along the way as just another part of me. I think you really do have to get to that point to go on to the next phase if you want to R (if not, then just D). You need to tap into your anger and feel ok about it. If you want to R with a non-remorseful WW who doesn’t appear to want to change, you need to utterly destroy whatever damage it is that makes this (and every other disrespectful action you didn’t deserve) ‘ok’ in her. Open pandora’s box and release your monster. 

It gets seriously ugly at this point; You shattered your ‘check’ system. You are willing to cross serious relationship boundaries. Name calling, character attacks, etc. You are ‘sharing’ your perspective of what a rotten chunk of meat she is. And it isn’t one argument; You will do this until she breaks or divorces to escape because you don’t care either way. You are going to damage her intentionally emotionally and leave her shaking. If she doesn’t leave, she’ll hopefully begin to look closely in that mirror and question what she sees. It won’t be a ‘good wife’ it will be the adulterous liar who is a complete fake. She’ll hate what she has become. Hopefully, you’ll start seeing real changes. 

And this is where you get to start re-attaching. Be supportive of the real changes. Welcome deep conversations. Encourage growth of who she wants to be (and that may not be exactly what you think you want either). Lead her how you did this yourself, without her help. Get her IC if she needs it (mine got suicidal for awhile and uncovered a past childhood trauma that was playing a role in her why). You’ll go in slow btw... too many tricks in the past. But by now she’ll understand why that is. And this script doesn’t quite look like that of a remorseful wayward wife you see on here. It’s more of a drawn out addict recovery; there will be slips, pitfalls, resistance, inner-turmoil, confusion and the rest. You’ll recognize it because you went through it rebuilding yourself. If its overnight, its fake... just saying.

Honestly, listening to BH stories now for the better part of four years... The only guys who seem to have decent marriages starting again with unremorseful, entitled wayward wives, are the ones who utterly destroyed the self-esteem of their spouse and forced them to rebuild themselves without their help. None of the stories are nice or touchy-feely about ‘winning back the heart’ of their spouse though we all started off that way. They are all quite ugly and borderline abusive. It is a philosophy of treating them how your really feel they deserve... Yours is still a cheating wife; How are you treating her versus how should you be treating her? You owe her nothing. She should expect nothing but pain from you at this point. You are a hurt creature... start behaving like it.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Racer said:


> .
> Honestly, listening to BH stories now for the better part of four years... The only guys who seem to have decent marriages starting again with unremorseful, entitled wayward wives, are the ones who utterly destroyed the self-esteem of their spouse and forced them to rebuild themselves without their help. None of the stories are nice or touchy-feely about ‘winning back the heart’ of their spouse though we all started off that way. They are all quite ugly and borderline abusive. It is a philosophy of treating them how your really feel they deserve... Yours is still a cheating wife; How are you treating her versus how should you be treating her? You owe her nothing. She should expect nothing but pain from you at this point. You are a hurt creature... start behaving like it.


Racer, great post. The sad part of these stories, is that we as BS's, we are never, nor should we have to be, prepared for it. In so many cases, it's not just the affair. The psychological abuse that goes with it is as bad. I've learnt so much about it. More than I wanted. And understanding your CS's condition doesn't make it easier to solve. Narcissism, totally untreatable.

And equally as sad, is that when you do seek proffesional help, MC etc, they are so often clueless. The psychologist we saw bought all of my CW's [email protected] The fake tears and the blatant lies.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Complete - you know the wavering back to no remorse is when she's been in contact with the AP right? 

You've got a very very good liar I am believing.

I think in one of her remorseful mood moments you should put the problem to her about how she can prove to you she's not in any contact. Listen to her suggestions, then sit back and think - what access method would her suggestions be avoiding?

When does she have time/opportunity
Is there a pattern to her remorse switching - time/event/place wise?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Man, your wife is a hard core cake eater. She won't give up OM on her own. EVER. THis double life is what she "needs", many are seria cheaters, others are LTA'ers, it's irrelevan. The hing is they won't give up. Another things is they believe they had the power but they never exercise it except for cake eating. It's means she will never file for divorce. Why bother, she has all she needs. THey only way is treating her like crap, as the "woman" she's behaving, ashaming her, she will swallow it. She won't file, she won't complain if you have evidence to shame her publicaly.
I'd read Racer post very carefully.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Agreed. She wants to be able to blame OP if the family is broken up. That and continue to sponge.
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