# Getting the most out of TAM



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The way to get the most out of TAM is to:
1. carefully decide WHO is best able to help you (think of this as advisor selection criteria)
2. identify the posters who are belligerent or emotionally draining - it is best to ignore these people - don't debate them - don't flame them back - just ignore them
3. don't run away from painful advice by creating a large number of threads - the more threads you start on the same basic topic, the less likely you are to get good advice.

Advisor Selection Criteria
The best advisors are people who already have what you want. Typically that is a happy, stable marriage/long term relationship. 

Folks who have gone through a difficult patch and reconciled are sometimes best as they have demonstrated the ability to get from where you are to where you want to be. 

The most dangerous advisors are often the folks who are in the same unhappy place that you are. The reason they are dangerous is that they often want you to do to your spouse, the very thing they wish they had the strength to do to their own partner. Typically they either want to punish or leave their partner. So that's their immediate 'go to' advice to new posters. 

Beware posters who:
1. recommend high risk/aggressive tactics
2. focus heavily on your partners 'bad' behavior and how wrong it is

The best posters will typically:
1. ask a lot of clarifying questions before they make recommendations
2. focus primarily on you and your behavior - because you are here - your partner isn't 
3. make recommendations intended to help you gain a better understanding of WHY your partner isn't meeting your needs
4. help you understand your contribution to the existing marital dynamic


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Instant stickie!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Great advice, but unfortunately a number of people who finally achieve what others want, a happy, stable and long term relationship (even if they came through rough patches) will often just leave TAM. I can think of at least 10 really great TAM members who were just as you described on the advice "to receive", that are no longer here. The only one I can think of who has stuck it out @Affaircare. 


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I think on the other side, those giving advice, it is important to remember the norm is to only get one side of the story. In medical school, there is an unspoken understanding that patients actually lie sometimes. The Questions asked often help to clarify truth from fiction. It can be hard for people to paint themselves as part of some of the problem; so much easier to bash that person who has no voice. 


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

The problem is most posters here are unhappy and disatisfied with their lives and/or their partners if they even have a partner. 

They're either going through a crisis, about to go through a crisis, have been through a crisis and are irreversibly damaged and unable to provide help that others are seeking because they're just too jaded and biased to be of any use.

The ones that get to a good place don't stick around. 

Well there are a few exceptions such as myself but we represent only a small percentage of the TAM membership, and it's hard to ignore 95% of the posts on a given thread. 

Perhaps we should identify ourselves in bold font or something.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Most threads have at least a couple helpful posters. And another couple who are sort of helpful. 

And IMO half the folks who come here want validation, not help. They create numerous repetitive threads. 

The other half - want help - but struggle to accept it. 




Yosemite said:


> The problem is most posters here are unhappy and disatisfied with their lives and/or their partners if they even have a partner.
> 
> They're either going through a crisis, about to go through a crisis, have been through a crisis and are irreversibly damaged and unable to provide help that others are seeking because they're just too jaded and biased to be of any use.
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Ikaika said:


> Great advice, but unfortunately a number of people who finally achieve what others want, a happy, stable and long term relationship (even if they came through rough patches) will often just leave TAM. I can think of at least 10 really great TAM members who were just as you described on the advice "to receive", that are no longer here. The only one I can think of who has stuck it out @Affaircare.


:grin2:


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Some of us have stuck around after improving our marriage in hopes of helping others get there.

Some amazing people here helped me get there. I really just want to be able to do the same for others.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

This should be recommended/mandatory reading for new users.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Good thread especially number 2. Somehow people forget this is the Internet and the playground for bored people who like to mess with others. When you know advice isn't really a device but baiting in disguise just ignore it.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

If I listened to half of the posters, I never would have gotten married!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

All,
Please post the names of the most helpful 5-10 folks active on TAM who are NOT mods. 

I will aggregate your suggestions - and splice them into the bottom my first post.





Wolf1974 said:


> Good thread especially number 2. Somehow people forget this is the Internet and the playground for bored people who like to mess with others. When you know advice isn't really a device but baiting in disguise just ignore it.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@SimplyAmorous posts! 
Always so kind & positive.  
@badsanta posts! 
Always has great tips!
My goodness, where do you get your information?  
@blueinbr
You have a great ability to understand WS. 
Offering help, when others (including me) make rash judgements/comments




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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

My votes go to you MEM and EG but both being Mods counts you out.

Why no mods on the list?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

To get the most out of TAM treat it as Consumer Reports or Amazon type reviews. Learn to identify key common points between cases and extract any useful information from those.

Above all, understand there are no quick fixes, and more likely, there may be no fixes. Understand why things happen, don't merely read things. 

The best use case for TAM is not to find the answer, but to find the right questions to ask yourself. 

Above all, the information value of failure is higher than that of success


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

While I do appreciate this idea, a mod specifically calling out who comes recommended seems off on a public forum. Even angry and sad people can teach us things. And if TAM becomes a place where a handful of people are formally named as "helpful" and the rest of us are in the bottom 99%, then I will simply leave it to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Begin again said:


> then I will simply leave it to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would leave - if I'm going to be ignored why waste time taking on what other people are saying?
If there was just "official approved speakers" then we might as well just read consultants reports and regurgitate some of the rubbish that counsellors tell people, because that's pretty much the only ones who will end up with the "seal of approval".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Begin again said:


> While I do appreciate this idea, a mod specifically calling out who comes recommended seems off on a public forum. Even angry and sad people can teach us things. And if TAM becomes a place where a handful of people are formally named as "helpful" and the rest of us are in the bottom 99%, then I will simply leave it to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Given the dramatically lower post volume from when I joined a few years ago, I would say TAM is at risk of becoming just that...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Begin again said:


> While I do appreciate this idea, a mod specifically calling out who comes recommended seems off on a public forum. Even angry and sad people can teach us things. And if TAM becomes a place where a handful of people are formally named as "helpful" and the rest of us are in the bottom 99%, then I will simply leave it to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I very much agree. 


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

john117 said:


> Given the dramatically lower post volume from when I joined a few years ago, I would say TAM is at risk of becoming just that...




Less volume or less new posters? I looked at the stats of users and guests and we are at only a fraction of the high of several years ago. 

What is causing new people not to come here? Competition from other sites?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Yosemite said:


> The problem is most posters here are unhappy and disatisfied with their lives and/or their partners if they even have a partner.
> 
> They're either going through a crisis, about to go through a crisis, have been through a crisis and are irreversibly damaged and unable to provide help that others are seeking because they're just too jaded and biased to be of any use.
> 
> ...


So you speak English??


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> What is causing new people not to come here?


Posters telling the OP to disregard advice ignore other posters happens way too often here... seems challenging for some to share their experience and advice and allow it to stand without wanting to throw water on somebody else's differing experience or opinion. Arguments rob temporary value from many threads... opinions may not be facts yet too often we present them as such when our humility takes the pillion's seat.

Sadly, we assume the worst of people up front instead of recognizing how presenting one's life in a block of paragraphs is frightening enough, much less being chastised for it out the gate in a post. No OP gets *only* bad advice in any thread, if they stay long enough after the torches and pitchfork triggers subside, people who have fallen can find great guidance to pick themselves up again whether they have wandered or been wandered on, have dependencies that are detrimental, or just need a moment to digitally reflect and share frustrations that relationships and life in general brings.

I have come to a point in my contributions (outside of the more social areas) that unless I have something to share that may be of value to the OP based on my path's experiences (the difficult ones are often the best lessons and hard to share at times), there is no need to add clutter to the conversation.

Like anything else, it's the quality, not the quantity (and that is my not so humble opinion). :grin2:

By the way, the OP's opening post in this thread states their opinion very clearly and that is appreciated, moderator or not, but I think the "beware" section list of thread responders are lessons in themselves as well, nothing better than clear choices (really good/positive .vs really bad/negative) when it comes to advice.

Of course, some may be critical of this... but I probably won't respond. :wink2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Less volume or less new posters? I looked at the stats of users and guests and we are at only a fraction of the high of several years ago.
> 
> What is causing new people not to come here? Competition from other sites?
> 
> ...


My guess is that there's more competition. There's lots of relationship sites out there geared towards niche markets/groups. And then there's Reddit, the heroine of forums- highly addictive.

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MEM2020 said:


> The way to get the most out of TAM is to:
> 1. carefully decide WHO is best able to help you (think of this as advisor selection criteria)


I joined TAM in Dec 2015 and posted nearly 1000 times before I told my story. In the leadup to my thread I became aware a few posters who I wanted to come to my story. Any most of them did. But I was helped by many people, and most of them I did not know before starting my thread.

Besides my main story I have sought advice on other topics. Each time the group of helpers was different. I am currently getting help from some great people, but the topic is specialized and so none of the "advisors" would be of any help.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Lila said:


> And then there's Reddit, the heroine of forums- highly addictive.


I read a lot on reddit before I came here. Now I am addicted to TAM


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Less volume or less new posters? I looked at the stats of users and guests and we are at only a fraction of the high of several years ago.
> 
> What is causing new people not to come here? Competition from other sites?
> 
> ...


I haven't been on here long but I see a lot of hit & run posters. They post and they get attacked, so they end up leaving. 

I'm a very empathetic person, so it's hard to watch. Everyone deserves kindness in their own way (well, almost everyone). Some people just come on here to vent and I think that's fine too. If that's the case, then people just need to recognize that and respond accordingly (or not respond). These are the people that get advice but don't take it. They just want to be heard; that may be healing for them. Again, there's nothing wrong with that IMO.


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

Begin again said:


> While I do appreciate this idea, a mod specifically calling out who comes recommended seems off on a public forum. Even angry and sad people can teach us things. And if TAM becomes a place where a handful of people are formally named as "helpful" and the rest of us are in the bottom 99%, then I will simply leave it to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't be so sensitive. To get all bent out of shape and walking off in a huff because of a top 10 list that you didn't get on, is like refusing to playing soccer because you're not in the Olympics.

Of course since I expect to be named in that top 10 list the whole idea doesn't bother me in the least.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Yosemite said:


> Don't be so sensitive. To get all bent out of shape and walking off in a huff because of a top 10 list that you didn't get on, is like refusing to playing soccer because you're not in the Olympics.
> 
> Of course since I expect to be named in that top 10 list the whole idea doesn't bother me in the least.


You who has been here since........last month???

Who are you really?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As a solid 1℅ TAM list member (bottom) it doesn't bother me but we are getting close to the point where opinions and experiences of anyone but the top 10℅ don't count because they are biased...

And that's why people don't stick around.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

john117 said:


> As a solid 1℅ TAM list member (bottom) it doesn't bother me but we are getting close to the point where opinions and experiences of anyone but the top 10℅ don't count because they are biased...
> 
> And that's why people don't stick around.


What people don't stick around? All of my favs except 2-3 are still here. I only know 2016 TAM. Lots of good people joined this year and are still here.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think it would be more fun to make two lists. Those who people think are the most helpful, and those that people think are more harmful. I'd stake my life that at least one person would show up on both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> What people don't stick around? All of my favs except 2-3 are still here. I only know 2016 TAM. Lots of good people joined this year and are still here.


You must be new here


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

john117 said:


> You must be new here


Compared to some, yes. But I don't miss the unicorn posters whose one post will fix my marriage. I got the advice I needed, from some very good 2016 posters, and now it is up to me whether on not I follow it. 

If the tone of TAM has changed within the last several years, IMO it is within the collective mods power to fix that.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

There are a lot of good posters who have come and gone in my three years here. Too many to list - I'd be afraid of forgetting someone. There are even some very recent posters I've come to appreciate. 

Occasionally I will go and reread my original thread and there were several posters who were very helpful at that time that have now disappeared. Wish that wasn't the case.

There are also many who I consider "subject matter experts" in different areas. Parenting, infidelity, sex. 

Me, I'm just here for the free donuts and appreciate that I'm allowed to chime in at will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Free doughnuts?!?

Dang. I guess you have to be one of the cool kids to get that...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Free doughnuts?!?
> 
> Dang. I guess you have to be one of the cool kids to get that...


the really cool kids get beer:grin2:


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> the really cool kids get beer:grin2:


Dammit!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> All,
> Please post the names of the most helpful 5-10 folks active on TAM who are NOT mods.
> 
> I will aggregate your suggestions - and splice them into the bottom my first post.


That cat @BetrayedDad knows his sh!t. He'll teach you to have self respect for yourself!

Everyone else is "okay"....


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.


I wouldn't think so in any event, and particularly if the list merely reflects the opinion of other posters.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Who's opinion, though? The advice you find helpful I may not. That's the beauty of TAM... It represents a nice cross section of relationships (Hetero and married, that is) from many walks of life. 

It's a bit like Amazin reviews. Some people want to read the top reviews, others only one stars. But I decide what is valuable to me based on what I'm looking for. That's the beauty of crowd sourcing. In a nutshell, TAM is crowdsourcing your relationship troubles. 

And as an aside, I've been here since 2009. Just got locked out with the great password debacle and decided to give up and just create a new account.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.


The VerticalScope disclaimer says the information is provided without warranties of any kind. Having an endorsement of posters by mods conflicts with that notion and might undermine the disclaimer.

TAM has (or once may have had) a thread rating system:

Talk About Marriage - FAQ: General Forum Usage

If people want to rate members then I suggest that a mechanism similar to what is described for rating threads be used with a member contributing a single vote/rating per member that can be changed as time goes on.

I have known several members who were really good but disintegrated into the dark side of anger. It would be nice to update my rating when this happens which then as others update their ratings keeps the rating more real time than any mod managed list could be.

Furthermore the ratings should be public like likes where you can see who rated who what. This keeps transparency because there will a record of the rating.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The usefulness of TAM is the relatively narrow focus in the forums. Spouse don't put out? Spouse sleeping around? Poof. There's a forum for that.

Anyone who thinks they'll easily find their marital doppelganger in TAM is dreaming. But they'll find something close. 

I did find mine. And realized it's what it is. Since then I've seen lots of Copper Top type posters, that basically get run off the island by the gallery after a while.

The gallery has its mind up that its most often the man's fault, he MUST improve, show leadership, etc. Anyone who dares challenge the status quo is generally not well received. 

TAM's strength is sheer numbers. Use to your advantage. But don't think that there's an elusive list of Harry Potter wand wielders out there that has the answers. 

In another forum I used to , for quirky Swedish automobiles , a couple people did have all the answers. Here, I'm not so sure.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.




My advice should be legally binding. 


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.


When moderators post under their own IDs it comes across as though what they write is endorsed by the site which "employs" them. 

This is why some forums assign separate moderator IDs which are completely anonymous and separate from their regular posting ID.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I would hope that I never have to see how low I would end up in a ranking or peer-reviewed rating system on TAM. There are times when the most salient advice comes from unexpected sources. Just keep an open mind. 


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

john117 said:


> The usefulness of TAM is the relatively narrow focus in the forums. Spouse don't put out? Spouse sleeping around? Poof. There's a forum for that.
> 
> Anyone who thinks they'll easily find their marital doppelganger in TAM is dreaming. But they'll find something close.
> 
> ...


Okay. I just have to ask - who are the occupants of the peanut gallery and who has the front row seats? And, I really want to know if your wife's trick with the Courvoisier worked it's charms on you?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Okay. I just have to ask - *who are the occupants of the peanut gallery *and who has the front row seats? And, I really want to know if your wife's trick with the Courvoisier worked it's charms on you?


Do you really have to ask? I'm rarely on here anymore and I know without a doubt to whom he is referring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> Do you really have to ask? I'm rarely on here anymore and I know without a doubt to whom he is referring.


25 posts in the last 2 weeks is "rarely on here"?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yosemite said:


> 25 posts in the last 2 weeks is "rarely on here"?


Might want to check your math. In the past 16 days, I've posted 12 times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> Do you really have to ask? I'm rarely on here anymore and I know without a doubt to whom he is referring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A guess gives me one or possibly two occupants. But, that number hardly constitutes an entire gallery. Just wondering who among us needs to be buying our peanuts in the shell.


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> Might want to check your math. In the past 16 days, I've posted 12 times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does that include the post that you made to respond to my post counting your posts?

Even if it does, that's still not rarely.

It's regular.

Rarely would be once every month or two.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ele,

I received notice today that I'm the recipient of a class action suit - by all the TAM folks don't think I will select them as most valuable posters....

They are suing not for money - but to force me to step down as a mod for abusing my powers and rabble rousing.





EleGirl said:


> I wonder if posting a most helpful list would put TAM in any sort of legal bind? It's like TAM would be endorsing certain advice.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yosemite said:


> Does that include the post that you made to respond to my post counting your posts?
> 
> Even if it does, that's still not rarely.
> 
> ...


Alrighty then. That may be your definition, but it isn't mine.



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Rabble


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> Ele,
> 
> I received notice today that I'm the recipient of a class action suit - by all the TAM folks don't think I will select them as most valuable posters....
> 
> They are suing not for money - but to force me to step down as a mod for abusing my powers and* rabble rousing*.


Guess we'll have to add name-calling to the list.:grin2:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Posters over 21 are not set in stone but are SET in their ways. 

Their programming is not readily malleable.

Jostling their Precepts and Egos rarely releases the Epiphanes State that we all need.

What works?

The Hammer and the Anvil for the Hardheads.

The Slap Dashery for the Vain.

The Poking Jab for the Sloths.

The [fore-aft] Jerking Hand Up the prehensile tail for the selfish Pleasure Monger. 

The Consoling Chorus for the Down Trodden Soul.

The Blistering Swirling Bluster for the Unfaithful Scalawags. 

The Rude Awakening Latin Jobe for Nice Guy Johnny.

The 180 Canon...unflagging Cannon Blasts to the foggy Mainsails of HMS Wayward.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Okay. I just have to ask - who are the occupants of the peanut gallery and who has the front row seats? And, I really want to know if your wife's trick with the Courvoisier worked it's charms on you?


I will have to take the Fifth Amendment for the first question...

The second question is easier, after half a bottle of the good stuff I was thoroughly charmed, to the tune of "just like the good ole' days" in terms of duration and quality. There seemed to be a bit of an afterglow effect on her as she mellowed down dramatically for the next few days.


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