# Going through separation.... need some perspective please.



## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

Hi - I would really appreciate some perspective from people going through marriage separation. 

My wife left me 3 weeks ago on June 1st and moved into a shared house with some of her stuff and our car. We have been married for 2 years and together for 7 1/2 years; we're in our early 30's. The basis of her leaving is because over the last couple of years (mainly since we got married a couple of years ago) I have not been there as partner to her, completely took her for granted, not respecting her (no admiration to what she does mainly because I don't understand it nor find it interesting), stopped nurturing/maintaining the relationship, and in her words not being honest with myself to her (not sharing my feelings and often take on the approach that no conflict is best for the marriage so I often simply try to appease the conflict by owning up 100% of the fought but would grow bitter). Furthermore, she feels that we don't have a connection and every time we go through major events in life or through crisis, we don't come out stronger but separate. We have been in therapy for over a year since last summer (discontinued 3 weeks ago when she decided to move out) and she felt I was never honest in those sessions and my feelings were never truly discovered. Furthermore, last November, she discovered I have been dishonest about my porn usage and the events thereafter made her feel as if I truly committed infidelity. I essentially resorted to the mentality that I love my wife mentally but sex is just a physical release and I don't really need that connection with her. Unfortunately, sex is mental with her and I used her condition as an excuse to be self engrossed with porn for release and obviously let the other aspects of being a partner slide and took everything for granted.

I admit that I am selfish (single child and parents spoiled me growing up) and puts work/career before relationship. I have the illusion that once my career is established then we can work on the relationship stuff. I am very driven, stubborn, but loyal and simply have overlooked the nurture that is needed to keep a marriage healthy. I have neglected some of the basic needs of my wife, the stuff I said in our wedding vow but never really took to hear to do. Things like spend time together, talking to each other, supporting/admiring each other's work, being truthful, being affectionate/intimate. I admittedly have taken on the perspective that getting married means being together forever and being together is unconditionally; regardless of each other's needs being met or not. I simply relied on the fact that I am a good guy and a beyond loyal guy and that would be enough. Instead of cherishing the need to satisfying each other's needs, I simply tuned out through work/career and selfish priorities in life. So at the root of our separation is her needs not being met, she felt completely neglected and I decided somewhere along the way I don't care if my needs were met. Sorta the beta male approach to relationship... needing validation from women in order to do things, etc.

She got us in couple's therapy a year ago. In November after the porn discovery, she kicked me out of the house for 3 weeks to think about all the things I've done her wrong. I went to the extreme of checking out sex addict anonymous because I really didn't know how to reconcile with her but to admit the extreme case of my porn usage. But in reality, it's the dishonesty and not sharing what I feel or need that she was more hurt about not the porn usage. After the 3 weeks of being out of the house, she took me back in but said she should have never married me and will give this marriage 6 months because in her vows she would try as much as she could. The 6 months window was from January till now and we went through therapy but accordingly to my therapist, she was never really open during the session to let me in again or to truly forgive me. So during this 6 months period, I felt like I was walking on egg shells and nothing I did could help. I did leave her for a business trip in early March that was extremely not timely. She really needed me then and she grew even more distant upon my return; purely out of being hurt and neglected when she needed me the most. During therapy, we were told to build connections through tough times but I don't think I really knew what that was. We had a few revelation moments during the last 6 months (after some spiritual retreats, we would bound and cry together). However, towards the last couple of weeks prior to her moving her, she grew ever more distant and I was so frustrated thinking nothing I could do is right, and out of bitterness, I said maybe we should separate to reflect. I think that pushed her over the edge in making up her mind to leave. 

Since her moving out 3 weeks ago, we saw each the last time at our couple's therapy session where she basically told me in front of the therapist, it's over. All the neglect and self absorbed nature of me got us into this situation where she feels so good to be alone. She could finally sleep again and it's over for now. She has subsequently come back to the house numerous time to get more stuff. Last week, out of despair and trying to get through the day, I signed up for some online dating websites purely to boost my ego. I created a profile but literally canceled the account immediate out of guilt and disgust. Unfortunately, she came back to the house last week because she had to meet some business partner and apparently went to my computer afterwards and saw that I had signed up for these online sites and on my to-do list I had written about the intention to sign up for these sites. She confronted me 2 days later and was beyond angry and hurt; saying just as she thought things can't get any worse, this discovery puts a dagger into her heart and that it's cover and don't fight her if I love her and telling me that she had given some of the best years of her life to me. She further criticized me for how could I do that just few days after her leaving, especially after I had written to her a letter of all these understandings of her pain and hurt that same day I signed up for those sites. She accused me of trying to play both sides; sweet talking her to try to get her back while secretly trying to move on. I felt that was the most unfortunate misunderstanding and turn of events because that was completely not my intention. My testing myself with the online stuff was because I was so hurt and devastated and I wanted to see what it would be like to have to move on... as she had told me earlier that it was over (both at the last therapy session and subsequent visits back home when she re-iterated the fact that we're not a match and she would need to start over, etc.). She also stopped wearing her wedding ring the moment she left 3 weeks ago. So all the signs were I had to take care myself, be with my friends, and unfortunately I had to resort to a quick ego boost by signing up some online dating. I felt like a guy who got beat down on the ground then she kicks me in the crotch while I was down. I know where she's coming from... complete hurt and hardened her hurt to leave me because she can't take it anymore. 

I love my wife and I know I was not there for her a lot of the times. I only made money and thought I'm a good guy and loyal guy, that would be enough. It almost is because I am so experienced with women that I didn't know how to nurture relationships. It's like planting a flower. I thought once it's planted, I don't ever have to water it again... but I do.

I told her I am not wavering with my feelings and I want to make our marriage work. I told her since the first 2 weeks after she left, I took all the pictures down but then put them back out and even though she is not wearing her wedding ring, I still wear mine.

I guess, I'm only hoping to get some perspective on how I should evaluate the situation we are in. I have written 3-4 letters apologizing and recognizing her pain and hurt. She has gone completely silent and seems to be engrossing herself with work and keeping busy. Last time she came home was yesterday to grab a few things and didn't say a word to me. 

Thanks in advance for any advise during these difficult times.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

It is difficult and you will feel hurt for a while. You will also go through a load of crazy emotions.

From what you wrote it sounds like you have a firm grasp of your shortcomings. Its good that you know them, but also don't beat yourself up too much. Marriage is a two way street. Have you ever asked yourself what did she do to work on the marriage?

You already apologized to your wife. That's enough. The only way for you to get back your wife is to let her go. You cannot force her to love you. I know this sounds cliche, but the only thing you can do right now is to work on yourself.

I'd also take the wedding ring off because you need to let go. Immerse yourself in your work and get busy. I highly also suggest getting in shape. Exercise is one of the best anti-depressants. 

Don't bother with dating right now too. Your emotions are all over the place and you will end up doing stupid things. Take it from a guy who has been there before.


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## legiox (Sep 2, 2012)

I will let the experts give you advice on your situation, b/c it sounds like a sticky situation. However, I can give advice on one thing, b/c i have been there.

Stop sending her letters. It makes you seem desperate and will just draw her farther away from you. In my situation, I called my STBXW up twice in the span of 1 week to get her back and tell her to come home. All it did was piss her off even more and made me feel even worse. You need to lay low for a bit and think things through. 

Again i will let the regulars come in here and comment on the other stuff.

P.S. sorry you're here. We have all been there and got the t-shirt on this forum. It sucks big time.


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## OnlyTime (Jun 22, 2013)

I agree on the 'stop sending letters' because to her you are always apologetic (no conflict, ever)..It doesn't do you any good now except to maybe learn something new but no conflict or disagreements in a marriage are not healthy to the relationship..You have to blow up with each other once in a while, it shows passion, the most important aspect in a marriage. Where do you think make up sex got its origination from?..If you cannot muster up that passion you 2 at least are not a good fit for a healthy long term relationship..You seem to realize some issues you have but recognizing and overcoming them are 2 different things..She was not happy with an appeasing partner and a woman 
will let you know when she has had it..some drag it out others just say BAM here it is...You must look at your own self repair and healing before trying to fix a broken marriage.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

*Re: Going Through Separation.... Please Give Advise On How to Cope and Perspective.*

Thanks so much for the advises!

Given the state of avoidance my wife is in right now with me, is there any obligation of mine to check in with her to make sure she is doing okay? Or would that be misconstrued as my being too pushy/needy? I am only coming from the perspective of trying to be the bigger person and a mature adult. I feel if this were a typical non-marital separation like a breakup between girl/boy friends, then yes, leave her alone and work on my life is the right perspective. However, we are still legally married. What is wrong with checking in? Or is that that all the things that should have been said been said, apologies that should have been made have been made, and now I could only let time and fate take its course?


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## legiox (Sep 2, 2012)

She left you. Why on earth would you want to check in and see how she is doing? Regardless of what transpired between the two of you, she is the one who left and "abandoned" the marriage. Takes two to tango in a marriage and obviously she is not willing to dance. 

You need to focus on you and not worry about whatever she is doing. Work on yourself ie: job/gym/hobbies/anything you enjoy doing and let her see that you can be in control of your life without her being there. If not, and you go the route of seeing her and calling her to see how she is doing, She will see that she is the one controlling the separation and will just string you along as her plan B, knowing you will come running back to her at a moments notice. 

I'm telling you. Cut her off. Do not have any sorts of contact with her and if you have her on facebook or any type of social media, delete her off that too. It will hurt in the beginning, but will be for the best. Trust me, I know. 

Again, she left you. Remember that. If she truly wants the marriage to work, she will come back. If not...well at least you know and are not putting yourself in a rollercoaster ride of emotions.


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## OnlyTime (Jun 22, 2013)

:iagree: you should not make contact with her unless absolutely necessary like a real emergency...Yes it takes 2 make a marriage work but sometimes (and not popular) only 1 to not make it work. Who knows what someone's true motive is in anything. I work around woman and had several tell me about catching their spouse looking at porn in secret and they become very hurt and start the un-trusting of the spouse.:scratchhead:..Only time is going to make or break it..But brother, this is only the beginning if she does decide to leave forever.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

I have a pretty good group of friends with a lot of support and family. There are plenty of things to keep me busy along with my business... so I'm pretty well equipped to recover; at least logically in my mind. However, today has been a very tough day thinking how much pain I have caused my wife through the actions and in-actions during our relationship. The most recent misunderstanding of my signing up for online dating when it was just a knee jerk reaction of feeling abandoned and how angry and hurt she took it. I just feel like telling her I understand her pain and the hurt she is feeling and how hardened she had to make her heart in order to leave... I'm just feeling so much remorse and I don't want her to think I am a bad guy... I just didn't step up to the marriage the way she wanted me to and I appreciate all the things she was pushing me to do and become... being an accountable adult who is honest and sincere.. The screwed up thing is, I feel that I am that but just didn't execute... 

I guess if I don't really expect anything in return from her at this point. So what is wrong with just pouring my heart to her about my remorse if it simply makes me feel better.. allow me to get through the day? 

Living in the house with some of her left over belongings is certainly not help me move on. But what is move-on suppose to look like 3 weeks into a separation anyways? Deep underneath, I have insecurity issues with needing woman to be in my life to feel validated along with having a successful career. Superficial, I know... but doesn't matter how much I try to sit with my emotions, the fact that understanding how I got to this place with my marriage, makes me want to react. And part of that reaction means doing stuff (travel, meet other women, start over again and try not to make the same mistakes). I am a type A person and I can't sit in limbo. I've always pursued things that I wanted in life. In my mind, it feels like I just need to chalk this up as a BIG learning experience and move on as quick as possible. Knowing that nothing is wrong with me, I am the way I am, but unfortunately I just didn't meet my wife's expectations. And a big component to this trying to take life by the horn again approach is start dating other women or just get out there and being single. Is that fundamentally wrong right now? Am I really suppose to feel loneliness for a significant amount of time, feel sad and remorseful about what happened with my marriage? How is sitting in our house and wondering what happened help? How long should I intentionally prevent myself for being out there and being single again?


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

*Re: Advise Please.. 4 weeks into separation*

Hi guys,

I feel like I am in limbo right now. I talked to my wife last night and she feels like us not talking for nearly 2 weeks in our so far 4 weeks of separation is helping her. Talking to me makes her feel very tough and sad, etc., but not talking and not seeing each other helps. However, for me, it is completely the opposite. I feel like I'm giving her space to try to buy time and hope she would return. But the lack of contact and lack of clarity is making me not able to really take care of myself. I don't know if I should move on or should keep on holding onto hope. I know, this sounds like codependency issue. I feel like if I pushed her to tell me where she at, I would finally push her over the edge and loose her. The other perspective is that, she is a big girl, she can pick up the phone and talk to an attorney if she wants a divorce. So I am stuck in this uncertain mode. Is this healthy? I almost feel like we are not being adult like in this separation. No talk of the boundary of what this is about, etc., but simply her feeling like she needs to take care of herself, her feelings... so much feeling oriented and no logic... 

I am leaving out of town with some friends tomorrow for 8 days. I told her she could come back to the house and watch the shows she had recorded. She didn't even ask where I was going, etc. 

What is the healthy thing for where we are at right now? Should I push for some certainty or clarify? She obvious can live her life in this state of uncertainty but I don't feel like I can.

And what amount of contact should be healthy given that this is beginning to feel very unfair to me?

Please advise!


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

My wife kicked me out June 1st. Not just me but all my belongings as well. I have two kids that I miss like hell. I see them but it is not the same as being there 24/7. 

Four things have really helped me.

1 ) Sleeping pills from the Dr. It's hard to be rational on 1 hour of sleep. 

2 ) http://ezinearticles.com/?Boundaries---Save-Your-Marriage-or-Relationship&id=542526

3)Read through this entire thread if you have time. Although in your case there may have been no infidelity but it's good medicine just the same.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html 

4) My IC.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

*Re: Advise Please.. 4 weeks into separation*



HLG1979 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I feel like I am in limbo right now. I talked to my wife last night and she feels like us not talking for nearly 2 weeks in our so far 4 weeks of separation is helping her. Talking to me makes her feel very tough and sad, etc., but not talking and not seeing each other helps. However, for me, it is completely the opposite. I feel like I'm giving her space to try to buy time and hope she would return. But the lack of contact and lack of clarity is making me not able to really take care of myself. I don't know if I should move on or should keep on holding onto hope. I know, this sounds like codependency issue. I feel like if I pushed her to tell me where she at, I would finally push her over the edge and loose her. The other perspective is that, she is a big girl, she can pick up the phone and talk to an attorney if she wants a divorce. So I am stuck in this uncertain mode. Is this healthy? I almost feel like we are not being adult like in this separation. No talk of the boundary of what this is about, etc., but simply her feeling like she needs to take care of herself, her feelings... so much feeling oriented and no logic...
> 
> ...


Let's not get into terms like co-dependency and other stuff that is thrown around this forum. What you are going through right now is normal. Your wife is giving you the cold shoulder and it is eating you up. From seeing and speaking to her everyday to suddenly not seeing or talking to her for two weeks is driving you insane. It will at the start but you will get used to it.

You are still in the early stages of separation and you are not yet in true limbo. I've been in your situation before and let me tell you that the worst thing you can do right now is try to press her for answers. Don't call her and try to initiate conversation. DO NOT pry her for an answer where your relationship is going. 
Once she feels like you are prodding her, the farther she will retreat. Its best to leave her alone and let this whole separation take its course. 

You are already doing well believe it or not. You are busy with work and you are hanging with your guy friends and going out of town. You need to stay busy and try your best to control your emotions. I'm convinced, if I was able to follow the advice I am giving you here, I would still be with my wife.


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## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

From your account of the state of your marriage, I don't believe your wife abandoned you. You had already abandoned the marriage. You do seem to have some grasp of how you've let her down. Marriage takes work. If by chance she takes you back, you need to know if you're able to be a real partner to her. Yes there may be issues with her but you can only work on yourself. Get yourself into counselling ASAP to work through your feelings and why you've come to this point. Begin doing the 180. There's loads of posts on it on here. Stop sending letters, calling, texting, etc. don't go on dating sites. Writing a journal can be helpful. You need to address what your part has been in your marriage. Have you just realised now how you've let her down? She needs time alone to heal and you need to work on yourself.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

*Re: Confused and Indecisive during Separation*

Hi guys,

So I didn't go on the trip I said I would. I literally canceled the flight 6h before departure this morning. It was suppose to be with a couple and another guy friend.

I talked to my wife last night and obviously the conversation got steered towards my wanting clarity on where she is act. She basically said plainly that she is using this separation to access divorce and is pretty much there. When I asked her if it is there she didn't say anything. I know, making the classic mistake here! She further reinforced that she is accessing the energy it would take give our marriage another chance when she has given it so many chances vs the energy it takes to start fresh with a new life. It could not have been spelled out more clearly for me talking to her. Also, my telling her where I was going (Beliez) made her feel sad because she told me she didn't want to kniow because that could've been her life.

As result I made my decision of not going on the trip because I looked at my situation similar to that of a dying loved one. Would I escape for transitory fun just because I cannot take the pain of watching my loved one pass away. I felt guilty and selfish for going on this trip. If my marriage is indeed ending, escaping for 8 days then coming back to reality is not going to help in the long run. I would feel more regret for being impulsive and indulging. I have plenty of time to go on trips if this is indeed ending. I just didn't feel it was the right thing to do. 

Unfortunately, my wife thinks I have left for the trip and I reminded her to feel free to come use the house when i was gone. How should I tell her why I didn't go in a way that would not make things worse? Should I not tell her?


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## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

Hello. I've been separated for 8 months and I sympathize with a lot of what you're going through. You seem like you're in a much better place than I was a few weeks into the separation. I would echo what others have said: You need to take care of yourself. If that means taking a trip, distracting yourself, indulging, having fun, I see no problem with that. However, I respect your decision to cancel the trip and I understand your feelings of mourning. In terms of telling your wife, it may be best just to tell her you decided not to go and leave it at that. If she asks for a reason, then you might consider being honest and saying what you wrote here. Based on her reactions to the online dating and the trip, it appears she still has a lot invested in you emotionally and hasn't completely checked out. The best thing for you is not to focus on her at all, take care of yourself, and use this as an opportunity to become the best man you can be -- for her or for someone else down the road. All much easier said than done.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello friends,

I've come to a realization over the last few days and wanted to see if people could give me some perspective.

I know how instinctively different my wife and I are and how we look for different things in life. We saw the world differently and we had different needs. She never had loving and supportive parents so she looked at family life as the up-most important thing in life. This explains her need for all the stuff I was not giving; being a partner, being supportive, sharing a life, spending time, being interested in each other's day other, etc. I, on the other way had very supportive family growing up and my most important need in life is having a purpose. Career minded and purpose were what drove me in life.. It's not that I don't believe in family and the importance of balance, what really drove me was having purpose in life. I admit I am not the type who will change what motivates me as a person to become someone instinctively want to do all the domestic stuff and be a nurturing husband. I can certainly learn and try but it is not me and I don't think it's wrong for me. 

Right now, I am beginning to question whether my needs were met too in our marriage. The more I think about it the more I feel like my needs were not met either; at least I didn't feel like I was understood. Just like I wasn't meeting my wife's family oriented husband she was looking for in a "natural/instinctive" way, she was not meeting my needs of feeling supported and understood that I live life with purpose and aspiration. Instead she interpreted my way of life as filled with anxiety, fear, and anger and wanted me to change. People don't become successful and in control of their lives without some form of anxiety through self motivation, fear, etc. I guess it comes down to neither one of us are natural meeting each other's needs; simply because we are different. If I had felt a bit more understood along the way, I feel like I would have perhaps been more natural in meetings her needs. I guess the part I am feeling bitter about is isn't this what people are suppose to work through in marriage; understand and accept our differences? How could she abandon it now when this is exactly the stuff marriage is about? I know in her mind she might have realized what I am realizing a long time ago but the fact that I see it now, don't we owe to it the concept of "we" that she ought to work through this? I guess I am just too loyal of a person to feel this would be something I could see through if I were in my wife's shoes. The loyalty I have would endure to the point where I would be okay to forgive her; even if it takes a long time. And the fact that my wife is not in this mind set makes me bitter because this is how I would be if I were in her shoes. If she only had the concept of "we" and "us" instead of her needs not being met and how come the world she envisioned didn't turn out because she finally realized who I really was and cannot accept that? Isn't that what marriage is about? To finally understand and accept each other? 

Should I tell my wife my perspective or is this something probably better to rest on or for my journal?


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

Hi friends,

So wife and I have been separated for 7 weeks now and she mentioned the other day when stopping by to pick up a pair of shoes the possibly of talking but never followed up. I think she is still not ready. I on the other hand feel that the main reason why we didn't get along is becoming more and more resonating in my mind. 

It is: My needs were not met in our relationship the the way I was used to having them met by family and friends. I was at the same time bad at communicating them to my wife and coupled with my fear of abandonment and insecurity, somewhere along the way I decided that my needs don't need to be met by my wife and sub-consciously I started to abandon the relationship by not meeting her needs and convincing myself needs are not important and no conflict/appeasing is the approach to relationship. We got stuck in this negative cycle and never worked it out.

I guess, if this is my perspective on how we ended up where we ended up. Should I tell her now or keep on waiting until she is ready to talk? I am pretty much okay if we get a divorce or get back together mainly because I accept what took place and certainly know what I need to do to make our relationship healthy and don't want the relationship that we had before. At the same time, I can respect her decision if we were to divorce because she can't trust starting over again. 

I think that step 1 in where I am is knowing what direction we are going to take (divorce vs starting over), step 2 would be to deal with the logistics of a divorce if that's the direction, step 3 would be start new. I feel like I am doing step 3 with my life right now in meeting new friends and building new social circles, but without clarity on step 1 and 2 so much of the new connections I am building in step 3 (new friends, activities, etc.) and the momentum of starting new gets discredited. I simply don't feel confident and can't commit to new life I am seeing in step 3. 

I would love to hear about some perspectives people have for me in this situation.

many thanks!!


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

I've read your last two posts. In my opinion it would do you no good to sit down and discuss your new revelation with your wife. Do you think she would suddenly change her mind? In fact, it can even come off as you blaming her for not meeting your needs and you end up looking more like a jerk.

From what I've learned, doing exactly opposite of your instinctive "knee jerk" reaction is the best you can do. You long to contact her and talk and explain things because you think she will suddenly find clarity. Don't because she won't. 

You realized your shortcomings which is good. Your wife has a certain image of you in her mind that she may never erase. You have no chance getting back to her if her impression of you never changes. The only thing you can really do right now is to move on. Your STEP 3 is the best option. You screwed up, so rebuild.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks Alpha! the main thing that bothers me right now is being 100% committed to step 3 of moving on with my own life. Take for instance the new friends I am beginning to hang out with through a close friend who is also starting after a long term relationship/engagement. He just happens to be 7 months head of me in the process so he really got out of his way to re-invent himself and groups he sought out to socialize with. This group of guys are all relatively new to this city and are looking to bond with people. It is the perfect new beginning for me to tag along with this group as all my friends are married or settled down. However, it is hard to socialize with them because I don't know if I'm the soon to be divorced guy looking to re-start and re-invent himself or a guy who's in transition and could easily leave this group if wife takes me back. Especially hard are going to functions where there are single women.. like friends BBQ, etc. Not that I am looking to date other women, it's hard to try to bond and connect with this new group of guys when I don't know how to best present myself.. am I the single guy who is going to bond and share experiences with them or a guy they say "good luck, hope everything works out".


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

You make it sound like this new group of friends are so important to you that you would be scared to offend them if your wife asked you back. Your thought process here is the same that got you in trouble when you immediately went to the online dating sites. 

The real purpose of you building back your life is for you and not as a way to try make your wife jealous. Do the work slowly but with commitment and see where the path takes you.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

thanks Alpha for giving me a reality check!

So my wife text-ed earlier about meeting up tomorrow evening. This is the talk that the last 7 weeks of no contact is setup to do I suppose. It's really a yes or no talk. 

Should I let her talk first or should I tell her my thoughts that I've written here? I don't think there's any upside for telling her my perspective first. What do you think?


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Well at least she is giving you the meeting that you want.

Now for my advice, and this is going to be very difficult to do, is to just listen and see what she has to say and don't comment on any of it. Nothing what you say or do at this point in time will change her mind. Words are weak, it's the action that counts and at this stage in the game you haven't given her any reason to change her mind---you go on dating sites, plan on hanging with a bunch of single guys, and now are contemplating of telling her that it's her fault that you are this way. How do you think she would take it? "Hey Honey, the real reason why you feel this way is because I treated you like crap, but the reason I treated you like crap is because you didn't treat me up to my expectations."

I say you take it like a man. Listen what she has to say, and then tell her if she says she wants out, "sure, if that is your final position, I can understand". Then quietly walk away. it will hurt like a b*tch but that is your best option at the moment.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

thanks again Alpha.. this is where my head is at too... have her tell me what she has thought about the last 7 weeks a part and hear where she is at. so the only thing I want to say if it turns out where she wants to know where I'm at is: 

"I understand how we got to where we are today and I will get to the same spot again if I don't communicate and live life through love instead of fear. Knowing what I know now, why shouldn't our relationship not get the opportunity to experience it? Why should the next relationship benefit from what I know now.. shouldn't our relationship get priority? Although I understand if she lacks trust and her time/faith in our marriage essentially ran out, then I can only understand and respect that decision."


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Again all you have are words which won't help your situation any. You don't get it that your wife doesn't want anything to do with you right now. The more you prod her and try to reason with her, the more she will resent you.

While it probably feels like an eternity, you're only at 7 weeks which is still the early stages. Sorry but you need to prepare yourself to just let it go and let the cards fall where they may. You cannot force or convince a woman to love you, it won't work. Trust me, been there and done that.

You seem to have a good grasp of your shortcomings. Work on them and forget about your wife for now.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

She wants to walk and talk. I guess there is more to how she wants to say what's on her mind then "yes or no" which I think is good. 

Right now I feel that I have just slowly gotten used to being separated and now change is coming. I am afraid of:
1) Change, because of my own issues of abandonment and insecurity going up. 
2) I'm afraid of loosing my wife. Her being in my life taught me my life's greatest lessons; be honest to yourself and live life through love not fear. 
3) I'm afraid that I won't be reflecting on myself the way I had done it the last 7 weeks.
4) I'm afraid of what I naturally would do knowing it's over; grab live by the horn and do things mentality; (form new friends, get involved in new things, travel, concentrate on my businesses, and off be single).
5) I'm afraid of loosing myself.
6) Feeling of having let people down; wife, her family, my family, friends.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

So there is a strong chance she will walk and give you the talk. You don't have much of a choice but to swallow the medicine. She has her mind made up.

Its what you do after she tells you her peace that will determine where your relationship will eventually go. You can be a jerk about it (that won't get you far), you can choose to be her friend and help her along the way (will screw you up mentally if she finds someone else), you can beg and plead her to stay (she'll resent you even more for it), or just take it like a man, be amicable, and work on your shortcomings which you seem to have a good grasp of already. 

You may have been a crappy husband, but she is still doing the walking. I don't think you owe it to her family, your family, and friends. But you owe it to yourself to make yourself into the best possible person you can be.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

So we had the talk and she basically said:

1) She feels the separation has helped given her some space to think and makes her feel good.
2) She is not ready for divorce yet but she will be going to NYC for two months as a change of scenery, visit old friends who will be leaving the city soon, and explore potential career opportunities in fashion as she is a free lance stylist now.
3) She was so tired of all the fights we had. She had put in so much energy in our relationship and now only has energy and willingness to help herself and concentrate on her work/career development.
4) I did tell her my realizations and she actually took it in and was like "gosh, why were you fighting me so much this whole time? So unfortunate you couldn't see what you see now.. maybe it had to take my leaving for you to see it".
5) I even told her I don't understand why our relationship could have first dip in the new me.. why shouldn't the next relationship benefit from it. She didn't fight me on it and was in general accepting my realizations as if saying "duh?" 

Overall, I felt the talk was candid. If nothing else, it showed she is open to communication again and don't feel too awkward or avoiding. I also felt she genuinely acknowledges that my realizations are actually real. She didn't say anything about how could I trust you, etc. My telling her the relationship we had before is nothing I want to go back to.. she agreed.

She is okay to check in once in a while over the next couple of months and I told her we should decide on whether we ought to set the boundary on whether we are allowed to date other people. She said dating is the last thing on her mind but if that's what I want, she could do it. 

I guess I'm okay right now to wait 2 more months. I did tell her at the end of 2 months we need to know what direction we should take by then. 

What do you think of what transpired?


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

I am not the relationship expert here and cannot tell you whether or not what transpired is good or bad. I'm simply of the position that either you are married or you are not. I know some counselors suggest separation as a possible solution, but I don't buy it. Out of sight, out of mind is what I believe. 

Your wife is moving to New York and leaving you behind. It sure sounds like she is building a new life without you. I had the same discussion with my wife when she decided to leave and she sounded exactly like your wife---hang with some friends, see what she can do with a career, only gone for three months, no dating. But guess what? It's been 20 months and there are no signs of her and I getting back together. 

Unless you were some really abusive SOB husband (which I doubt you are), a wife who wants to leave a marriage without working on it has alternate plans. The conversation seemed to go well for you because she wants a good amicable break and doesn't want to feel guilty about leaving.

Now I suggest you get back to work on yourself and don't bother chasing her to NYC to see what's up. You may not like what you find if you do.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

The more I replay how things transpired last night the more I feel that she is slowly getting over being overwhelmed/sad after the decision to separate back on June 1st. Now she sees that living 3 blocks from me is not helping her at this stage of the separation. She has told her family we are separated two weeks ago when she was visiting Midwest. She says she focused so much on our marriage while here now she can only focus on herself, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that NYC is very enticing for someone looking to experience new things, especially newly single. She uses the reasoning of potential career development/networking as motivation and her friends there no doubt after convincing her to "come enjoy the summer and the east coast heat" She had already committed to a sub-lease with no exact work setup but says she always hustles and has some clients there but hopes to work under this famous stylist as an intern. She is leaving a brand/career she has started here in the west coast and seemingly okay with it. When asked if she'll wear her wedding ring (which she hasn't warn since moving out), she said no because it wouldn't feel right and wanted to know if I wanted it because it may not be safe if she just kept in in a drawer in her new apt in NYC.

The more I think about it the more it sounds like.. "i'm going to play in the big apple for the last few months of summer now I'm feeling okay about my mental state, it would be good for me mentally after having gone through hell, I don't want to divorce because I'm following my heart. I don't have much financial burden because I can always get by and my husband is still paying me through his business (yes, I actually increased her on payroll for rent and basic stuff). I have nothing to loose because if I don't make any good connections in NYC, I can come back and the room I'm renting now is still available for me or my friend's spare bedroom." Oh yeah, I'm going to move a bunch of my stuff back to our house while gone for 2 months on a one-way ticket. 

It just feels like my catering to what she is doing is just the same old me that sacrificed my needs and happiness; thinking this is support. We actually dated long distance for 2 years prior to her moving to the west coast and this feels so familiar. I think I may just tell her that "I don't think we had enough time to come to decision of divorce yet but your moving away based on nothing particular but to experience new things and hang out with your friends is great but I can't keep all your stuff around the house and I'm going to rent out the two rooms your stuff currently occupy by September 1st because that's what I need". The reality is, if she really wanted to get back together at end of September or whenever, her stuff being stored in storage will probably not discourage her from her feelings of getting back together. I'm holding myself back right now if I don't do what I planned to do had our conversation last night gave me clarity that we're divorcing.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Your situation has some similarities with what I went through. My wife left and moved to the city also. She was in an artistic profession much like how your wife is a stylist. She left half her stuff with me. We had a business together on which she was given a salary. She also told me that dating someone was the furthest thing from her head.

You are hoping for clarity now, but you won't get it. I went through 19 months looking for clarity and it never came. In the end I made my own decision. Words don't mean much, no discussions you have will give clear answers, but look at the actions. If she wants to move to a different city, what more of an answer do you need?

Now ask yourself, do you want to provide your wife the safety net? Do you want to be Plan B? Do you think she will refrain from dating if an interesting man pays attention to her? 

A wife who doesn't live with you is no wife at all. Being married means making the effort. I can understand how a wife can get frustrated and want to leave. But most men are just plain blind to situations and have no idea that there is any real trouble in a marriage. It often takes a threat of divorce to wake them up. And when they do, most are willing to make changes. If your wife doesn't want to fight for it after she woke you up, then she is quitting on the marriage. And once she walks out that door, who cares whether or not there is a ring on a finger or a piece of paper. For all intents and purposes that marriage is over. 

This is my opinion and at the end of the day, you do whatever you think is correct. But I believe hanging on is going to kill you. Cut her off from the company since she no longer does any work. Do not check up on her. Do not call her, let her call you. When she does, be amicable. Don't be a jerk but do not be her friend. I'll repeat that last part, do not be her friend. 

You cannot force someone to love you, remember that. Now start working on rebuilding you.


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## HLG1979 (Jun 21, 2013)

hi friends,

A quick update from what has happened since last posting:

So my wife moved to NYC at the beginning of August and during August and September she was only interested to talk to me if I had some revelations to share, not about the past but about new thoughts I may have woke up to. Initially I felt that she left me and I was angry so I wanted nothing to do with her. I basically lived August as if I was single and had a chip on my shoulder. It actually felt good. Then in September I discovered the "ego". I had been going to meditation a lot and reading Elkhart Tollee's A New Earth. I agreed that I have been living unconsciously, consumed by ego and the way it identifies with the world and our relationship. That struck a chord in her briefly. However, by mid September she called and said she was done thinking and was going to come in early October to get her stuff and live in NYC permanently. However, she agreed to have me visit her in NYC in late September just to see what it would feel like. I felt like the trip was her opening up to potentially re-starting but she was extremely guarded and wouldn't let me in. Coupled with a huge mishap that took place on the last day we were suppose to see each other (I thought I was suppose to have dinner with her on Thursday night but her text message that was sent to me at 1:30 am Wed morning said "today" so she meant Wednesday night). That honest mistake on my part resulted in her going to such a dark place of disappointment and closing up. So that trip ended in my exposing myself to vulnerability and it ended in nothing but hurt and disappointment. 

So fast forward to October. She came back to the west coast on October 8th and basically told me her heart is set on relocating to NYC for good and she was here to move her stuff. She and I spent the next 8 days basically crying together and saying goodbye and trying to talk to understand the reason. Her decision is that she is so broken emotionally from the marriage and so much has happened that she cannot trust me at this juncture because that would be too much to risk in this stage of her life. She basically broke it down for me that the entire time since we were married, I wasn't the partner she thought I would be but she put up with it because I was starting a business and was consumed from a mental capacity standpoint, she never really voiced what she really needed (spending time, doing things together being her needs) so I interpreted as she is the most low maintenance wife there is, someone without needs so I could just do whatever I want. She was so selfless that she gave me that idea because she loved me so much, she didn't want to make me feel she is demanding for anything in our relationship. It was really when I started to put her down occasionally about the work and business she was trying to start that she started voicing back about how she is not getting her needs met and now being subjective to verbal put downs doesn't fly with her. And when she started to demand on things she wanted and put us in therapy, I started fighting her for it and only cared about winning arguments over being happy. And eventually she got fed up and hardened her heart and left. Those were the reasons she explained as why she left me. So now, even though she feels that I have finally started to exemplify thoughts and actions that she has long wanted to hear and experience (recognizing my ego, being more aware and honest with my feelings, being more present and flat out more mature about what it takes to be married in terms of responsibilities, etc.). She also said she no longer wants me to change or grow at her pace of demand in the relationship, she has came to acceptance that I was going to grow and evolve at my own pace and that is what is taking place within me. However, she just turned 34 and wants to have a family and basically cannot risk starting over again with me because the potential of being disappointed again would be unbearable to her. She said if he were younger (more time to have re-starts) or older (not needing to have kids) then she would consider re-starting with me but timing is not in favor of her decision making now.

I understand her perspective and am trying to move-on as much as I could. However, I know there is still a ton of feelings in her for me yet she is making a somewhat rational decisions (her age being the main factor) that is basically making her not trust me or forgive me; even though she says I am finally exampling things she has always wanted, because she knows if she were to do that it would open herself up to be vulnerable and more pain. 

While she was here moving her stuff, we spent another week just living together after her movers came like before (going to dinner, talking to each other as if we have moved on, talking about dating other people, etc.). I would often at times ask her "so why are you leaving me again" because we were getting along so well, without the fights or expectations. She both agreed we are such good companions but somehow she was convinced that we want difference things in life; she wants a partner and family and I didn't want that. I feel misunderstood. I was starting a business which was for family and our life, just that I thought we would be in this forever that I had time. 

Anyway, since her being back to NYC 10 days ago after spending 2 weeks with me, she was still trying to keep in tough about her daily routine but I decided I cannot talk to her anymore because it is too hard for me. I find it very hard to not wanting to talk to her because I care and obviously still hung up on her. We haven't talked about filing for divorce and I don't know if that's my way of holding on. 

I guess I would just like some perspective on how I should go on mentally. I am trying to accept and let go. At some point I know it really will take meeting someone else or knowing she has met someone else to truly be over this. In the meantime, what should I expect? Should I force myself to not talk to her, to start dating, to keep doing everything and force my mindset to admit it's over; as if taking hard medicine, knowing this is a must?


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