# Can the 180 backfire and cause more distance? Need tips...



## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

I think I've been pretty much following the priciples of the 180 since the discovery of his EA. I have been trying to find things that make ME happy and then just doing them instead of waiting around for him. I'm not trying to talk about the relationship. I show no interest in his activities, whereabouts etc. I still attend the MC once per week that he sets up. That is the only time I talk about anything and get vulnerable. However, I'm not good at the detaching yet loving and warm piece of it. I need some tips on that. By that I mean I think I've been overly detached and cold. He keeps saying he thinks that I have someone else (which I don't).

In short, I believe he is reacting to my attempts at a 180 by pulling himself further away as well. I feel about 1 million miles away from him right now. The few conversations we have had about the relationship have led to the following comments:

"I don't think you'll ever get over this so yeah I basically have one foot out the door"

"I can tell you're done with me"

"I'm just waiting for the day when you to throw me out"

"You're acting like your mind is already made up about us"

"It seems like you're ready to move on without me"

"I'm trying my best to make this work" (yet no remorse, no loving actions, nothing that makes me think that's true)

So, anyway is there a point when you just decide to let it go and reinvest emotionally hoping that the issues can be worked out in MC? Or do I still hold out for signs of remorse which are FEW and FAR between? I feel like he is the type of man who will not do the heavy lifting without some positive feedback from me. 

Or maybe I'm just fooling myself and we BOTH know this relationship is beyond repair and he is just waiting for me to be the bad guy and tell him it's completely over. 

Just some additional info:
-Transparency is there, NC established, steps being taken to verify all of his actions etc. so I don't think the OW is an issue here
-He does anything I ask (like pick up a bottle of wine for me etc.), but doesn't seem to initiate anything on his own (such as randomly picking me up my favorite bottle of wine as he USED to do all the time, or an apology, small gestures of caring etc.)
-To me it feels like he's doing a 180 himself (how messed up is that??)


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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

Isn't that the risk of the 180? That the partner won't chase and the relationship will end? If the partner doesn't want to pursue the relationship, that's the answer that the 180 brings about?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

My two cents,

Yes, doing a 180 can cause you both to disconnect and detach emotionally. Too much in some cases.

A bit of detachment is necessary, so you can make rational decisions not based on emotion. Do the hard things like figure out if you want to stay together, etc.

My advice on how to detach would also be to not forget one thing:
Treat each other with respect, be caring, and kind in a universal way. How would you treat a _close friend_?

-Doing small gestures for someone. Asking them about their day. Listening to them. 
-Taking the time to cook dinner if you are home first and they are working late
-Picking something up when you are shopping that you know they like
-Calling to wish them well if you know they are going to have a busy day

It doesn't sound like he is doing these things either, yet. 

But if you model it, a couple of things happen.
1) You don't carry over the hurt into the rest of your life. You practice and remember how to treat people. That's never a bad thing. It's not right if you turn into a cold bitter person over this.
2) You show you care about him as a person
3) He gets to see that you don't accept what he did, while also seeing that you are able to still be human, caring, respectful. That shows your strength. You may not be in "love" mode, but you are capable of being decent.

It's hard to do this. But if you "friend" him... that leaves the door open for something more to blossom.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I always thought the 180 was for the situation where he refuses to cease contact and wants to continue the affair.

If he has agreed to end all contact, written the no contact letter, given you complete transparency, and agreed to work on the marriage, the 180 seems counterproductive.

If he had an EA, it will take time for him to get out of the fog. He still will have thoughts of the other woman and, like an addicition, a strong desire to contact her, which he must fight, and which will fade the longer he is not in contact.

However, in my opinion, the 180 is detrimental in this situation.

If he is not doing those small, thoughtful, and/or remorseful-type things you want, I think you have to tell him that it would help you heal if he did those things. If you are being cold to him, he may not think you want him to try to re-engage with you. He is not a mind-reader and he will not automatically know what you want. 

To me, the 180 is for when he is refusing to re-engage or refusing to end the affair.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> I always thought the 180 was for the situation where he refuses to cease contact and wants to continue the affair.
> 
> If he has agreed to end all contact, written the no contact letter, given you complete transparency, and agreed to work on the marriage, the 180 seems counterproductive.


Agree , once the affair is verified as being over and recovery is in progress then the 180 should be stopped as by its actions you will create distance between yourself and your spouse.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> Agree , once the affair is verified as being over and recovery is in progress then the 180 should be stopped as by its actions you will create distance between yourself and your spouse.


I have been trying it with a major trickle truth situation and also rug sweeping but it's just ending with tantrums. I think it's inappropriate for my situation except to help me realise what a lost cause my ww is...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> Just some additional info:
> -Transparency is there, NC established, steps being taken to verify all of his actions etc. so I don't think the OW is an issue here
> -He does anything I ask (like pick up a bottle of wine for me etc.), but doesn't seem to initiate anything on his own (such as randomly picking me up my favorite bottle of wine as he USED to do all the time, or an apology, small gestures of caring etc.)
> -To me it feels like he's doing a 180 himself (how messed up is that??)


 Anyone just reading this one thread is being fooled by your version of your marriage situation. You say that you never cheated and that your husband is the only cheater because he texted another woman (OW) for a few weeks, but you leave out the fact that you left your husband, filed for separation, and while still married openly dated and had sex with many men for two years as your husband begged to get you back. Although over the two long years of a separation he did not want, he eventually started to date a few women, he never stopped chasing you and trying to get you back and dropped those other women in a heart beat when you agreed to go back to the marraige. He contacted you at least 2 times a day and regularly came over on his own to do things for you. No matter how you try to sugar coat it in your own mind; he rightfully believes that you betrayed him big time during those 2 years, and that you did so without remorse. Incredibly, in one of your other threads, you were so self-centered that you were bothered by the fact that he eventually started to date other women during that 2 years. Your lack of remorse is eating at him and you do not appear to recognize this at all. 

In another thread, you were recently upset that your husband was mad that when he dropped by to visit you in class, you came back from break were you had gone off to chat with another man. Although you demand strict boundaries from him regarding contact with other women due to his texting the OW, you do not recognize that he may want you to respect boundaries with other men due to the fact that you left him for 2 years and dated other men while still married to him.

Looking at the whole picture, he has every reason to practice the 180 on you when you do it to him. If you want this marriage to work you need to stop the 180 and try to win his confidence in you and the marriage back. Right now he is emotionally drained and feels unloved; this makes him an easy target for any women that shows him attention and makes him feel good about himself as a man. The texting with the OW should be a wakeup call. Since you have taken his love for granted all these years, he may be trying to emotionally break free from you before you hurt him again. You need to look at the whole picture and tell him that you are sorry that you left him and dated other men. You need recognize that without you showing remorse for leaving him for 2 years he will never heal from it. Without remorse there cannot be true reconciliation. If you want this marriage to really work, it is time that you let him know that you are willing to fight for him. It is time that you stop looking at your marriage only from your point of view and start to care about his point of view too. You need to let him know that you love him and make him feel special.


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

TRy said:


> Anyone just reading this one thread is being fooled by your version of your marriage situation. You say that you never cheated and that your husband is the only cheater because he texted another woman (OW) for a few weeks, but you leave out the fact that you left your husband, filed for separation, and while still married openly dated and had sex with many men for two years as your husband begged to get you back. Although over the two long years of a separation he did not want, he eventually started to date a few women, he never stopped chasing you and trying to get you back. He contacted you at least 2 times a day and regularly came over on his own to do things for you. No matter how you try to sugar coat it in your own mind; he rightfully believes that you betrayed him big time during those 2 years, and that you did so without remorse. Incredibly, in one of your other threads, you were so self-centered that you were bothered by the fact that he eventually started to date other women during that 2 years. Your lack of remorse is eating at him and you do not appear to recognize this at all.
> 
> In another thread, you were recently upset that your husband was mad that when he dropped by to visit you in class, you came back from break were you had gone off to chat with another man. Although you demand strict boundaries from him regarding contact with other women due to his texting the OW, you do not recognize that he may want you to respect boundaries with other men due to the fact that you left him for 2 years and dated other men while still married to him.
> 
> Looking at the whole picture, he has every reason to practice the 180 on you when you do it to him. If you want this marriage to work you need to stop the 180 and try to win his confidence in you and the marriage back. Right now he is emotionally drained and feels unloved; this makes him an easy target for any women that shows him attention and makes him feel good about himself as a man. The texting with the OW should be a wakeup call. Since you have taken his love for granted all these years, he may be trying to emotionally break free from you before you hurt him again. You need to look at the whole picture and tell him that you are sorry that you left him and dated other men. You need recognize that without you showing remorse for leaving him for 2 years he will never heal from it. Without remorse there cannot be true reconciliation. If you want this marriage to really work, it is time that you let him know that you are willing to fight for him. It is time that you stop looking at your marriage only from your point of view and start to care about his point of view too. You need to let him know that you love him and make him feel special.


Wow a lot of that was quite harsh. Ouch. But I agree with the last few paragraphs. So, thanks for your brutal honesty. You are missing a few details though which may slightly defend myself about my behavior upon asking for a divorce...

I was emotionally and verbally abused for years. I was accused of cheating all of the time and never did. He questioned me all the time if I was 1 minute late or 1 minute early. He tracked my mileage, he stalked me. I lost all of my friends and family backed off too. I finally sought out IC and become a stronger person and regained some self-esteem. I BEGGED him to go to MC for about 2 years prior to filing for divorce. He REFUSED. He said he had no problems. So, after continuously threatening to file for divorce

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 I went and filed. It should have been no surprise to him at that point. Then, I bought my own house and started dating SIX months after filing and making my stance known (no possibility of R). He refused to sign the divorce papers so therefore I remained married on paper only...

On to the rest...yes I definitely took his love for granted. And I agree that I need to work on that and at seeing the big picture. I agree that he is vulnerable right now because I am being a giant B. But, at this moment I am reeling from his EA and need a little tenderness which I am NOT getting. The separation and subsequent divorce happened several years ago and we moved past that when we decided to date each other again (at least I thought we did)...


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

deejov said:


> My two cents,
> 
> Yes, doing a 180 can cause you both to disconnect and detach emotionally. Too much in some cases.
> 
> ...


Thank you that is what I needed. A little advice about how to soften up a little... very helpful. Thank you for the tips, advice and support.

I am confused about the 180 though. It seems I have read conflicting advice about it. The last few posters mentioned it should be used only when the affair is still in effect. But, I swear I read it could be used when remorse was not being shown either. Oh well either way I guess I will take another approach now anyway...

After reading the last poster's assessment I think it would be smarter for me to almost call a "truce" with my husband. He obviously has a lot of hurt and things he might be hanging onto from the past as well. Maybe we need a fresh start again, slate wiped clean, no more keeping tabs on strikes against each other etc. What do you think?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Why would you be doing a 180 on him? that is for when the other spouse has checked out and is unremorseful. If you are still in the relationship, and are in MC together, the 180 is counterproductive, so stop it. If what TRy wrote is at all true, your problems go much deeper than this.


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

Lon said:


> Why would you be doing a 180 on him? that is for when the other spouse has checked out and is unremorseful. If you are still in the relationship, and are in MC together, the 180 is counterproductive, so stop it. If what TRy wrote is at all true, your problems go much deeper than this.


Because he's checked out and unremorseful...

and I did reply to TRy's post above...


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> Because he's checked out and unremorseful...
> 
> and I did reply to TRy's post above...


so then if the 180 is causing him to be distant it's not backfiring then, just doing what its supposed to (ie not necessarily pushing him away, just revealing the truth about the state of the relationship).


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

Lon said:


> so then if the 180 is causing him to be distant it's not backfiring then, just doing what its supposed to (ie not necessarily pushing him away, just revealing the truth about the state of the relationship).


Gotcha. Thanks. Revealing the state of the relalationship...that makes a lot of sense. It's the right answer just not the answer I wanted. lol.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> After reading the last poster's assessment I think it would be smarter for me to almost call a "truce" with my husband. He obviously has a lot of hurt and things he might be hanging onto from the past as well. Maybe we need a fresh start again, slate wiped clean, no more keeping tabs on strikes against each other etc. What do you think?


 :iagree::iagree::iagree: Yes this. I agree completely.

I was harsh because I hate to see a marraige fail when it can be saved if only the two parties try seeing things from the other spouses point of view. BTW, the other spouses point of view does not have to be the only point of view and may in fact be flawed, but it should still matter to you.


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

TRy- I appreciate having some insight into his possible viewpoint. It helps really. Thanks. 
Hopefully you read my other post that explains a little bit about what happened back then. I don't want you to think I'm as evil as portrayed up there... lol


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> Hopefully you read my other post that explains a little bit about what happened back then. I don't want you to think I'm as evil as portrayed up there... lol


 I am not saying that you are evil but this statement by you shows that you are completely unremorseful for when you left him for 2 years and dated other men. It also shows that you are not really trying to see it from his point of view. 

For instance, in your answer to me you say that it was ok that you slept with other men because you waited 6 months after you moved out before doing so, even though you were still married. From his point of view, the whole reason that the courts do not grant instant divorces is to give couples a chance to work things out, a chance that you did not give him, thus you cheated on the rules of your marriage since you did not wait for the divorce to be final. In your case the court’s logic was right as you are still married. Also, did you know any of the men that you dated prior to moving out? From his point of view he could believe that you moved out to further explore a relationship with someone that you knew prior to moving out; thus in his mind you used separation as a chance to cheat. Another thing is, that since his first wife was a lying cheater, he would not be crazy if he doubted that you waited 6 months before sleeping around, since he would have no way of knowing what you were doing once you moved out.

As for you believing that he has no right to take issue with you sleeping with other men once you moved out, I find it interesting that when he later tried to take your advice to move on and see other women that this bugged you. Specifically, you stated that “What he said to me was that I told him to move on, he was trying to move on but that he never had feelings for any of these women. In fact he lost dating partners due to his obsession with me. For some reason I am not happy with this answer”. You’re the one that moved out and started dating; if you are not happy with his answer, just imagine how he feels about yours.

Your reason for leaving him is also subject to a different point of view by your husband. You claim that he “was emotionally and verbally abused for years” because he accused you of cheating. Yet you acknowledge that his first wife cheated on him so he was overly sensitive about this. Thus he may not view his sensitivity about cheating as abuse but only as normal human reaction to his life experience. An experience that you were aware of when you married him. 

Another thing, your statement in a prior post that “To be honest I believe that I took him for granted. I took the fact that I was on a pedestal for granted and obviously wasn't meeting his emotional needs.” He does not sound like that bad of a guy. Try seeing things from his point of view and try to help him heal from the 2 year separation. If that means finding and showing remorse for hurting him, so be it. Looking at things from a loved one’s point of view is not always just about wrong or right, it is often about understanding the person that you love and trying to make a better relationship with them.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> Or maybe I'm just fooling myself and we BOTH know this relationship is beyond repair and he is just waiting for me to be the bad guy and tell him it's completely over.



I think this is the case. You took off and spent 2 years with other men. That has to wear him down.

And you appear not to be remorseful of the things you did. He's waiting for the marriage to finally end.

Give him enough time. He'll complete his indifference to you and move on.


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

TRy said:


> I am not saying that you are evil but this statement by you shows that you are completely unremorseful for when you left him for 2 years and dated other men. *I really never thought about it that way...I was divorcing him for good and trying to move on. He failed to go to MC with me after YEARS of me asking. I was washing my hands of the relationship*It also shows that you are not really trying to see it from his point of view.
> 
> For instance, in your answer to me you say that it was ok that you slept with other men because you waited 6 months after you moved out before doing so, even though you were still married. From his point of view, the whole reason that the courts do not grant instant divorces is to give couples a chance to work things out, a chance that you did not give him, thus you cheated on the rules of your marriage since you did not wait for the divorce to be final. In your case the court’s logic was right as you are still married. Also, did you know any of the men that you dated prior to moving out? *No. I wasn't even allowed to talk to any men when married. So, the first man I met was brand new to me.*From his point of view he could believe that you moved out to further explore a relationship with someone that you knew prior to moving out; thus in his mind you used separation as a chance to cheat. *I get your point. He probably did think that...*Another thing is, that since his first wife was a lying cheater, he would not be crazy if he doubted that you waited 6 months before sleeping around, since he would have no way of knowing what you were doing once you moved out. *You have another good point.*
> 
> ...


In short I do disagree with a lot of your assessment but I think you drew ok conclusions from what I have posted. I didn't know about or join TAM until years after most of the divorce stuff went down so of course I didn't thoroughly document all of what happened in my marriage. And of course there are always two sides to any story. I will say that the thing I like about your response to me is that it clearly tries to get me to see things from my husband's standpoint...which is hard for anyone to do and very helpful for me to see. It is very helpful for me to get a reality check here too, meaning I'm not the only one hurting here. I thank you for that. I especially love your last few sentences. :smthumbup:


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

And just an update...
Last night was kind of a break through night for us. I took some of the thoughts and comments here and really thought deeply about them. I started a convo with WH last night to bring up the possibility of wiping the slate clean so to speak. Before I even got there he broke down and said everything and more that I needed to hear. And then today he texted me a whole long thought out sweet and apologetic message out of the blue. I think I will be able to soften myself up a bit towards him now so we can both move forward instead of both sitting with our nasty resentments of each other.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Crazytown said:


> And just an update...
> Last night was kind of a break through night for us. I took some of the thoughts and comments here and really thought deeply about them. I started a convo with WH last night to bring up the possibility of wiping the slate clean so to speak. Before I even got there he broke down and said everything and more that I needed to hear. And then today he texted me a whole long thought out sweet and apologetic message out of the blue. I think I will be able to soften myself up a bit towards him now so we can both move forward instead of both sitting with our nasty resentments of each other.


 Gratz. I was glad to read this and am happy for you. It is funny how when you start to try to see things from their point of view, how often they end up try to see it from yours.


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