# Stuck in Marriage Ambivalence



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

If your going to read my story and offer advice please read it all rather than skimming over it. Thanks for your willingness to offer advice! 
Putting a full history of a 17yr marriage on a forum to strangers isn’t really possible. I'll make it as short as i can sparing alot of details.

Married 17yrs. 23yr old daughter away from home in college and 12yr boy at home. Husband was raised in city in California. Spoiled rotten as an only child. Semi-well off. Grew up to be known as a “player” in his old days lol. I was raised in Arkansas. 5 kids total. Very poor grew and killed everything we ate. I’ve previously been to counseling to help overcome issues stemmed from childhood (codependency etc). parents did what they call shame based discipline. Putting your nose in your urine for punishment for bedwetting. Making you hold the electric fence for our cattle. At the age of 7 I was caught “discovering myself” and my punishment was mom ripping all my clothes off and forcing me to repeat what she caught me doing on the living room floor with all siblings and our cousin kids all sitting in the room watching. I could go on and on with the stories but you get it. Just messed up.

We married after knowing each other 8 months. After first year he started displaying a very ugly side. Years later I learned this was verbal and emotional abuse to the extreme. Yelling at me for everything, cursing me out, etc. Very bad temper. I lived about 13yrs constantly worried about what may make him mad. Ensuring things were ok so he wouldn’t get mad. My daughter and I always hid things from him so he wouldn’t go off on us. He had always been a daily pot smoker too. He lived in his recliner. Never participated in life. Didn’t like being around people. Expected porn type sex in the bedroom. And there are just no words to describe how badly he treated me.

After years of the typical trying different methods to “change him” begging for counseling or anger management only to have him snap at me about I was just too sensitive. Or if I didn’t do things to upset him he wouldn’t act like that. Anyhow, I finally reached a point to where I just didn’t care anymore. I’d of been happy if he just killed over or disappeared. I’d kind of “checked out” and didn’t care. I told him I was done this time. Told him I didn’t love him. Deserved to be treated with respect, tired of protecting my daughter from her dad, etc etc. By then our daughter was grown and out of the house and our son was 9 or 10. This was just a few years ago.

He freaked out. Crying, sobbing, begging pleading. Threw his pot away, begged me to please help him change. He wanted counseling and anger management. Said he was so so sorry he’d been treating me so bad. Blamed most of it on the pot. I felt stuck. I saw this new side of him. So naturally we hit the counseling and I was pretty shocked. I saw a whole new man. He started visiting and talking to people. He wanted to go do things together. He laughed about things or tried cracking a joke now and then. He started doing things around the house to help out. He started trying to loose weight and present himself better as if he cared what others thought. He started showing me a new kind of affection as if he really cared rather than touching only for sex. I was totally elated. We spent the next 8 months or so in this honeymoon phase. We even renewed our wedding vows. As to be expected this cloud 9 feeling wore off for us both slowly. Within a year he was no longer enjoyable to be around. Don’t get me wrong, he did NOT go back to being so abusive to me. He just turned back into a lump on a log. Never touched the pot again though thank god. But he just sits around Barking at things. Not really being mean just nothing to be attracted to. He would get upset about things and raise his voice and yell or slam things but never cursing me out or acting as bad as he use to. He was no longer fun to be around. My son and I started hiding things from him again to prevent him from getting upset. 
There are mistakes made by both of us. He engaged in some of his old behaviors and I started allowing it. It happened so slow I didn’t notice it though. Then here comes another major hit to our marriage. I’d been seeing doctor and therapist for a back injury and somehow got addicted to opiates the pain med my doc was giving me. I got bad. Hurt us bad financially doing this behind his back. I tried getting off even went to the doc that got me on them and begged him to do something. He told me I had to do rehab. I couldn’t do this. I was traveling for my job teaching and doing employee motivational seminars, I ran our soccer organization, I just couldn’t. So I engaged a friend and we slowly weaned me off that crap. Hardest thing I ever did. I was so so depressed afterwards. How I was on that stuff and what I did. Horrible. He found out and you can imagine his reaction. But…. He went with me to see a phychiatrist and all. He said he loved me and would stand by me. This all ended well.

Other than that pill situation nothing else major with us. Just daily life of him vegging and not helping around the house. Being grumpy and snapping at us for honest mistakes etc. Little things like when I forgot to pay the cellphone bill and now it was 5 days late he blew. Took the other bills from me and said stuff like “obviously I can’t trust you to do **** and will have to do it myself!” My little dog in the house was running circles around the living room acting silly and instead of laughing about it he’d just roll his eyes as if to say “stupid dog”. He’s very very responsible and particular about stuff. Almost ocd. Like when I pay a bill I have to write the account number in the checkbook register and the confirmation number. Then also write the info on the bill itself, ck number confirmation number etc. then also put it on this sheet he has that keeps up with bills. It think that’s so stupid to be so so picky but it’s just the way he is. 

Over the last 2 years I’m back to wishing I’d never married him. I feel like my brain is in some whirlwind of confusion. I’ve gotten to where I’m blocked from seeing any good in the marriage. It’s not only his temper or tendency to blow verbally but just his dead personality all over. I’ve daydreamed about him dying and allowing me off the guilt of leaving him.(I know that sounds icky). Not only do I not love him but I don’t even LIKE him or being around him. I decided I needed to find a way out of this without it turning into another huge ordeal like it did last time. I started seeing a counselor last week. Only been once now have another appointment this upcoming week. She says it sounds like the bullet left the gun a long time ago but my finger is still on the trigger afraid to pull it.

Well, he found out I was going and didn’t tell him. He was so angry. Saying the only reason I’d go behind his back was to find a way out of the marriage. Yelling at me about how could I destroy our family like this after everything he’s done for me helping me past that addiction I dealt with and all. Look at everything we’ve built together and how could I just throw it all away. I’m going to devastate our son how can I do this to him. The next night he got up a few times in the middle of the night and I could hear him slamming things and stuff. The next morning he was so nasty to me said “I’m glad someone feels they’re happy enough to sleep!” Told me I was selfish and nothing he did was good enough. Said I keep raising the bar on him higher and higher. Here we go again right?
The next day which was 2 days ago, he woke me up at 3:00 in the morning! Saying I love you, I’m sorry I still hurt you. Asked me to scoot over so he could hold me. I denied about 4 times till I finally did just to shut him up. He gets up that morning as if nothing was wrong. Weird. He’s been acting so happy, talking, laughing, cracking jokes. He’s obviously in his crisis mode again and is doing everything he thinks I want him to do in order to get me to want to stay. Thing is it’s pissing me off. It makes me sick. I know this isn’t really him. My son is soaking it up! Yesterday my son asks “what’s up with dad!”. For a few hours yesterday when we were running errands I respond to some of his conversation and laughed about something then later told myself there is NO WAY I’m getting sucked in to him again so he can change again in a few months and then me be beating myself up because I’ve done it again. So now he’s saying what’s wrong with me cause I was in a good mood earlier. I hate this. I feel stuck. I still just wish he’d go away. I can’t leave now. It would turn into a huge emotional mess with me being the bad guy for ripping his heart out again. I’d be the one destroying our marriage and our family. Although I think of it more of saving myself from spending the remainder of my life wishing I had something different. I want someone that I can enjoy doing things with. Someone that laughes, jokes, enjoys life. Don’t take things so serious. Don’t get mad at me if I make an honest mistake. But of course that’s how he’s acting right now.

I read so much about people "getting back what they had" or "rekindling the relationship" but what if it was never really good to begin with? I was a wreck emotionally when i was younger thanks to my wonderful parents. I managed to look for abusive men and he seemed to look for injured women as his ex wife was not much different than I. During some of the best times of our marriage I was in love with the idea of having a somewhat normal marriage where we enjoyed each other. 

My head is so screwed up right now. I feel angry too. Not sure why but so angry that he’s doing this right now. It's almost like "how dare you push me out and treat me like a dog then act like this when i'm trying to do the right thing and what's best for me and our son". If we were apart my son could enjoy BOTH of us without the fighting. And hopefully there's still time to teach him how a healthy marriage should look like. He's already gotten to where he calls me to come or asks me to get something for him. Can't believe I've allowed this.

Thanks for your patience in reading this long story!


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Let me add a few things i guess trying to keep my story short it's easy to leave out important details. 
The other day when he was so upset i remember him repeatedly say I'd once again dropped this big bomb on him and how did i expect him to react. But, like i told him, DAILY I say things to him. Like "you didn't have to yell or treat me like that to get your point across" or "see, that reaction is exactly what i'm talking about, was it necessary?" or "I'd be more open to listening to you if you said it more calm and not yell and curse". I talk to him pretty often about how I feel he's treating us and his response is always either I'm too sensitive or nothing he does is good enough. Said he's changed and i cant see that. So i didn't drop a bomb on him. He's just not taken me serious until I do something drastic. He kept saying "I love you! Isn't that enough?!!"

Also, I've put so much into to trying to make him happy. I thank him when he does something i appreciate. I do things for him all the time. He asks me to get something for him i get it. He calls me for help on something I'm happy and willing. (well not recently) but I'm just saying that i contribute everything i can to make him happy hoping he'll see this and be different. I feel he does hardly anything in return.
And if anyone thinks he's being manipulative or anything - he's not doing it on purpose I promise. Sometimes I think he deep down inside wants to be different I just don't think he can. And even if he DID become a happier person that doesn't hollar and get mad what about just his personality? What I was ok with 17yrs ago i'm not now. If i were to meet him todayeven seeing his positive side i still wouldn't date him. I'm a very down to earth optimistic bubbly person who really enjoys life and people. I want someone who shares alot of common interests. My husband and I do things that we enjoy together but we don't do anything that "connects" us outside of our son at least.

Right now i'm typing and he's engaging in hanging out with our son. They got one of those $500 traxis cars yesterday and are playing it together. He's talking, smiling and acting so happy but I don't trust this is something he can continue for more than a month or so. My past experiences have proven otherwise.


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Do you know the story of the poisonous snake? If so, just skip, if not, it is written, one day a man came across a snake. He took him home, fed him, loved him, took care of all his needs. The snake would snap at the man when he put his hand into the cage to give him food. One day the poisonous snake bit him. The man cry out, "Why did you bite me with your poison? I love you, I feed you, I care for you ? Is this how you repay me?" and the snake turned to the man and said, " You knew what I was when you picked me up "


----------



## DelinquentGurl (Mar 25, 2011)

I read your entire thread and first of all I gasped out loud when I read about how your parents punished you as a child. Growing up like that it makes sense to me why you would pick a man who is verbally and emotionally abusive.
Your H still very much has an anger problem and while I do think it is possible to change, it is going to take a long time and hard work on his part. If he's been like this for years more than likely it will take years for it to be fixed.

It sounds like he has literally sucked the life out of you. I think it's good that you are in C for yourself and you need to keep going. You could very well have some sort of PTSD stemming from the abuse (yes, that was abuse no question) of your parents that you need to work through.

I'm sorry to hear about your addiction, from what I've read it happens quite often.

You only get one shot at life, I pray you find the strength to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

No, i'd not heard the snake story. i liked it though sure makes sense.

Deliquent girl: thanks. I like to THINK i've worked past my childhood. I look at it as "it happened get over it". i don't like blameing things on childhood. I am who i am by my own choices. I am the wife that i am and the mother that i am by the daily choices i make. I disassociated from my family at 16. i was thrown out for my dissent but it was the best thing that happend to me. i was self supportive at that age. I like to think i'm the only one that turned out normal. ok, i've had some sexual insecurities i had to overcome and codependency issues but... i have a drugie alcoholic brother, one that was in prison for abusing his step daughter, a sister who had her kids taken away and practices witchcraft now. they're all a mess. to this day i CHOOSE to stay away from them. they're not healthy for me. 

What i'm hoping to get out of counseling is to become more confident to make appropriate decisions in my life. I appear self confident on the outside. I was doing employee motivational workshops and engagement at work. I lead our soccer organization. I was over a board of 35 members that ran an organization of over 400 kids. I'm outgoing, bluntly spoken and appear very confident. But inside i feel like i don't know who i am. I feel selfish sometimes and other times feel i deserve to feel selfish. I'm a mess right now. I am angry yet also so very depressed. I could yell or i could cry. I hope this therapist will help me learn to make decisions based on what's emotionally helathy for me and my son. IF that means leaving him and going through the inevitable hell that will go with that then so be it. If that therapist feels i have other issue that need worked on before making that decision i'm open to that also. But right now, at this moment. He makes me sick


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

I was thinking about that snake story. So when that man saw the snake he had NO idea that it had the potential to do that to him. And when the man got bit the snake was sorry and started showing the man affection again and not biting. Then bit again. This continued until the man realized this snake was not a good idea and he shouldn't have brought it home to begin with. But.... he feels stuck because how can he just dump this snake to fend for itself when it's not the snakes fault it has the tendency to bite. He chose that snake. I guess the man has too much compassion to turn his back on the snake. I think this man is only 44 and has many years ahead, he needs to continue counseling to learn to let this snake go and to learn to say no to all snakes in the future! LOL


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't sugar coat. Call me insensitive. I don't care.


You're a god damn doormat. You have more mental problems than the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Family. Luckily though with care and tenderness and love you can overcome them. It will take a great deal of work and time and an environment where you can flourish and become the beautiful wonderful person you could always be. 

Your husband is a psychopathic bully who feeds off your weakness and self hatred. 

You can't fix yourself and become an emotionally healthy mature woman capable of love and self respect as long as you live with your husband. Your choice. Stay with him so he can **** all over you the rest of your life, or leave him and salvage your soul and your life. 

Your mom makes Nazi death camp doctors look normal. Not only would I never speak to her ever again I would disappear off the face of the earth to them and make it impossible to ever contact me or even know if I was alive.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

There's a difference between being blunt and not sugar coating and being down right rude. I'm blunt also and appreciate that in others. 
Saying I have more mental issues that the massacre family is just a direct cut and there's really no need for that.

Now, I agree with you though. As far as my family I have nothing to do with any of them. I have one brother that changed his ways and is a total church freak now. At least he found a healthy addiction lol. I do talk to him sometimes. that's where i "hear" about what all they're doing. So they've been out of the picture all my adult life. 

I'm really hoping this therapist can help me gain whatever I need to gain to get my crappo straightened out. The last counselor I saw i quit going. After 6 sessions all i'd gotten out of it was all the why's. Why this why that. I already know all that. I know how messed up my parents were. I am fully aware that most of my reactions and behaviors come from how i was raised. I get that. I need help moving forward and changing. I need to see progress not spend session after session hearing stories and telling me how messed up my life has been. I told this therapist that my first visit. Told her about the last guy and why i quit going to him. Told her I wanted aggressive, blunt action not to spend $75/hr to hear how messed up my childhood was


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry - but you know everything I told you, already. You know you do. You know your childhood is the root of your problems today. It's shaped you it's turned you into a doormat. It's what made you seek out your husband. Being abused and tortured validates your self hatred. You know it. And you can't fix it immersed in it. You don't need an expensive Jungian analyst to tell you that. You don't even need a psychiatrist. You need a therapist or social worker who help you confront these things and accept them, accept YOU. There isn't a therapist in the world who can make you love yourself. All they can do is give you more or less a roadmap to do that. 

Again, you know that. You know you know that. 

You need to bury that child you used to be, you need to take her out back and shoot her dead. You need to end your own slavery. That's what holding you back.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Take her out back and shoot her dead. LMAO. that's funny. 

What you said was my issue with this last dude i went to. I knew why when how etc. I need guidence out of this. I know there are behaviors i need to get away from but my attitude of "just doing it" doesn't seem to work. I tell myself i need to quit being codependent. I need to learn to say no to other people. I've hurt myself financially to help others in need. I can't say no to a stray animal. But i have to learn how to set and hold a boundary and learn that saying no doesn't mean i don't care. 

My husband use to travel alot. Across the country. I remember we were at our happiest times when he was gone. (me and my kids). I don't even know how to describe it. I acted how i wanted, ate what i wanted to eat, didn't clean if i didn't feel like it etc. I know i'll be SO relieved and much happier if we're split. It's GETTING there that I can't seem to do. Funny too because this is total opposite behvior of what I normally do. If we're faced with a big brick wall and need to get to the other side, my husband will sit and analyze the best way for days. Measuring, timing etc. Me.... I'll bust the dang wall down to get where i need to be then look back and say "oops! that's ok, we can fix it!" lol. I can't seem to bust down this brick wall of my marriage. I'm not that worried about my son either.
Yes, i know it will hurt and affect him. BUT I'm 100% confident that he is perfectly old enough and mature enough to know what's going on. He's not stupid. he's fully aware of our issues in the home. Unfortunately we work as a team behind dad's back. I've done a great job at training my kids how to not upset dad. sickening isn't it. And i really believe that he can then enjoy good quality time with both of us and not be sitting here watching and listening to us yell and watching me cry 3 times a week. I see that odd look in his eyes when my husbands treats me like a dog. I see pity in my sons eyes. Then he acts humble and compasionate towards me the rest of the day. He knows. He's not stupid. What will be my number one goal with him is to make sure he knows we both love him more than life itself and this has nothing to do with him. It was in existance before he was even born. 

Anyhow, again my goal with therapy is to just grow. I can continue being a big kind hearted, happy bubbly gal without letting people walk on me. I have faults that i'll always have. I forget and i'm a bit of an airhead sometimes. I'm too spontaneous sometimes. But i still have alot to offer someone. And there's still time to teach my son how a wife and husband should treat each other.


----------



## DelinquentGurl (Mar 25, 2011)

Dog- I agree with the doormat comment but the mental problems comment was rude.

I hope this counselor helps you also, like you I don't like sitting in therapy rehashing my childhood because nothing I do will change the past. I am solution oriented, and I want to know how to get past issues, not just learn to cope with them.

My fear is that your H will never change, and you'll continue being abused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

I started stassing money about 4 months ago. I got a p.o. box in the next town where i work. I also opened a seperate checking account using my po box for my address so that if and when i get balls enough to make my leap of faith jump I have something. I know he will freak out but he won't do anything to hurt our son. no way. He won't withhold monies or leave me stranded so not sure why i felt the need to start a stash of money but i did. 
We have alot of debt thanks to my episode of my hydrocode addicition awhile back. But most of them are in my name since i did it behind his back. I can support myself just fine but not if i'm making all the other payments also so i'm thinking of doing a bankruptcy and just wiping the slate all the way across. not sure yet. I purchased an e book. it's called "Make any divorce better". it's a self help guide to help you prepare both mentally and physically and how to go about the least amount of chaos as possible. I saved it to my desktop at work and have been reading it.

I read another book (i don't even read! lol) it was called Too good to leave too bad to stay or something like that. It goes through a series of like 36 questions in depth analyzing your relationship. If any ONE of them tells you that you'd be happier off leaving then the answer is to go. Even if none of the others fit. 32 of them say I'd be happier if i left and miserable if i stayed. lol. I even re-did the book 2 more times to make sure and yep - 32 of the 36 told me to leave. wow.

Anyone having a difficult time deciding should read this book. It's a very blunt down to earth book. It taught me quite a bit.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm rude, what can I say?


----------



## DelinquentGurl (Mar 25, 2011)

SLR some of the things about yourself remind me of myself. I am also an outgoing, outspoken person. I am also blunt but at times have been very rude and not thought before I spoke, which is one of my 180's I'm working on now.

On the outside I am a very confident woman, you would never know that on the inside I also do not feel like I know who I am, and I have horrible self esteem. I am in C to work on that (among other things)

My question to you is when do you plan on taking this leap of faith?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's not faith, it's destiny.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Definately something I can't answer at the moment. Probably will do nothing till I've been to a few counseling sessions. We've been married 17 years. Not so easy to just up and walk out. I'm standing on top of this cliff with danger behind me knowing darned good and well that if i jump there is something below to catch me. I know I'll be looking back one day and thinking what the heck took me so long to do that! But right now I'm scared to death. I can't sleep it's affecting my work and i'm emotionally a mess over it. His parents moved here across the country to follow us a few years ago (we moved from california to alabama about 6 years ago for his career). they moved here because my son is their baby's baby. They are both right at 80. They are like my own parents. I love them as my own and they love me. I know they will survive it. But dealing with them will be a mess also. Mom knows. she's even told me that if we're not friends now we better figure something out cause when our son is out we won't have anything to hold us together. She knows how her son is. But they love my son so so so much they will freak and be heartbroken for him. 

Anyhow, i'm standing on top looking over the edge shaking and crying and scared. When? dunno


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm having a hard time coming up with any advice for you because despite the length of your original post I don't know what you want. I know what you don't want and I know you needed to blow some steam off. The obvious advice is that you probably need to divorce for your own sake and that of your child. You say you are too afraid to do it, but I can only say (and don't mean this the way it will sound) that if you know your predicament as well as you do and choose not to do anything about it, then you are where you choose to be. Your post was essentially just a long "*****" session. Sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. I have no doubt that what you say is true and you are seriously unhappy at home, but I also wonder if at this point you aren't just trying to justify an affair so you can escape the problems at home.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Whoa.. Big Toe, i was with you all the way up to the last sentence mentioning justifying an affair. Another man hasn't even crossed my mind. Well...the IDEA of someone different has but I have no desire to have an affair. In fact it's just the opposite. If I can make it out of this one I'd really like to be alone for awhile. I need to make sure I'm emotionally stable enough to offer someone else a healthy happy me.


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Fair enough. Based upon your original post I don't see any redeeming qualities in your marriage. Your description is clear evidence that you don't see anything there either, and I don't think you are in a healthy emotional environment because of the way you feel about your husband. I understand what years of verbal and emotional abuse can do to a person and sympathize with your predicament. However, only you can change your predicament and if you choose not to then there's not much advice people can give to help you in this matter. What you have described is a situation so entrenched that I think you either have to get out of it, or live with it. I didn't see much evidence that you were willing to get out of it which led me to wonder if you were simply considering an affair so you could escape it temporarily.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

I can see that. Actually I've daydreamed about HIM having one! lol sounds pretty demented but i recall wishing he'd have one to "let me off the hook without guilt". I've heard this is normal thoughts though. 

I think for me it's the act of leaving that scares me. I know he will beg, cry and go insane. If i could leave without him acting like i'm ripping his heart out and tearing up our family I'd have no issue walking out the door or telling him to leave. I know he loves me I just don't think he has the ability to change into someone different. And how unfair of me to expect him to. I'm the one that grew and changed what I am and am not willing to accept in my husband. I also think that even if he did become a different person and live differently there's just too much damage done. I honestly don't think i've forgiven him for the past. Like my family. I choose to let go of my parents and what happened but I'll never forgive them and don't want to. They were psycho.


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Interesting reply. It sounds like you are having a hard time justifying leaving him. Assuming he did have an affair, how would that change him begging, crying and going insane if you left? All his having an affair would do is apparently give you the justification you need to leave. That indicates to me that you either doubt yourself that things are really as bad as you describe them, OR, that you are feeling guilty about how you have grown and changed respective to the marriage.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Definately the second. Did you read my reply to the person who told me the poisonous snake story? I CHOSE him. I've chosen to stay with him for 17yrs. A few years ago when I decided i was done and he wanted counseling then and wanted to stay I chose to stay and give him another shot at learning to control his temper and anger and all. He DID change. He's nothing like he use to be. Nothing. But still to a degree that it's not acceptable to me. He has no right to yell and curse when he gets mad and I no longer feel responsible for how he reacts when he gets upset about something. Heck I was pulling out the dishwasher shelf and the little roller come of it's track and I was trying to fix it myself so I wouldn't have to tell him. When he found out it was "what the hell did you do to it?!" As if i'd done something wrong.

So the guilt comes from the fact that I've stayed with thim this long knowing what he was and now i'm "all grown up" mentally and am saying sorry your not longer good enough. And his comment about me raising the bar on him. It sounds like I have. He's not as bad as he use to be but fact is that he still is way to verbally abrasive or whatever you wanna call it. And again even when he's not angry or yelling he's a lump that has no personality. He'll laugh at tv shows and things but as far as family fun and all it doesn't exist. My long point here is that it's guilt. pure guilt cause he'll be acting like he loves me and wants to change and i'll be saying sorry too late without giving him another chance. 

I've gone through periods where I tell myself, maybe he's right. Maybe I AM too sensitive and I'm only seeing the bad in him. But when the next situation comes up and he displays this nasty side of himself I'm devastated hurt and angry thinking what the hell was i thinking maybe it was me being too sensative. I know all couples fight. But I don't know anyone that talks to each other the way he talks to us. So then I'm back on the kick of i want out. I'm stuck in the vicious cycle or something. dunno. Hence the reason I'm here and going to a therapist


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Yep, I read the snake story and there's another chapter to that story in which the man throws the snake back into the desert because of the snakes behavior.

People do tend to gravitate back to previous behavior left unchecked, even if they don't mean to. You probably have a responsibility to remind him to keep working on his anger and temper. I'm not saying you don't do this, just that if you aren't, you should.

I also think his categorizing things as "raising the bar" is inappropriate and he needs to understand the difference between that and never meeting the standard to begin with. Having said that, I firmly believe that everyone has the right to get angry and even display it REASONABLY. Don't expect him to be perfect...even people in the best marriages snap at each other occasionally. 

You said he was a spoiled child. If you don't want to leave the marriage you are going to have to "train" him to interact with you the way you want. That will require a lot of work, patience, and probably confrontation since you will need to keep telling him when he is treating you disrespectfully.

For example, with the dishwasher incident you should tell him, "Next time, do not assume that I did something wrong. Give me the benefit of the doubt. Even if I did break something, don't assume I did it on purpose. Sometimes in my life I have broken things accidentally without meaning to. I'm not perfect. Take a breath, relax, it is just a part that can be fixed. I am your wife and I do not deserve to be yelled at over a shelf coming off its track."

You can train him to be the man you want, but you will have to work at it.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Well, as i've stated before when he said i dropped this "bomb" on him and my response to him was that I tell him every single time he does that how it makes me feel. I always either offer alternative methods of delivering his message or tell him i'd much more responsive and open to listening if i wasn't feeling attacked. Example would be recently I forgot to pay our wireless bill. We were only a few days late not even a late fee yet. He blew. He took the other bills from me i had to pay and said that obviously he couldn't trust me and would have to do it himself. All the while loud and abrasive like i was in trouble.

My point is every time this issue comes up which is a minimum of once a day his come back is either "your too sensitive" or something like "omgod! here we go again". I've sat him down quite a few times and told him to please just stop and look. 95% of our big fights and arguements have always been about how he treats me. Almost always the same thing. He says i'm not perfect either and I raise my voice at him also. I agree. But will say it's always my reaction/defenses to how he's just spoken to me. I didn't use to talk back. I'd ignore it. I got to where it hurt. Finally I started fighting back which i know isn't good.

I'm at a place now where I'm completely oblivious to seeing any good in him or the marriage. I watched him the other night while he was watching tv. I felt nothing. no anger anymore and no attraction. Just dead. I wish he'd just get up and walk out on me. I want to figure out why i'm having such an issue with doing what I feel is best. I think it's guilt. That and self doubt. My brain is stuck on the spin cycle right now lol


----------



## CalmMarian (Jun 3, 2011)

SLRLeann,

I took the time to read each detail of the first post but I scimmed over the second. I also ignored everyone else's posts. So you can take my words in context.

You have had some rough roads, from your childhood to the marriage you are in. You don't have to continue on those rough roads. I think what you are trying to say is that you want to get to that point where you were with the 8 month "honeymoon" but this time make it last for years to come.

I want you to know it is completely possible and not a horrible long road but can be an easy one. 

Since you understand co-dependancy it may be easier to explain. One of the reasons divorce is so common in our society is we all tend to slip into that trap easily when we are in a inter-dependant relationship. Stop working on him though and looking for how he can help you, satisfy you, etc. Work on healing you. (though I'm not sure I agree with the counselor you have chosen. Did you know that 75% of people who seek marriage counseling end up divorced? Part of it is counselors have some yucky techniques of hashing out the bad rather then planning and focusing on the good and positive things you want to have happen. If you energetically focus on the bad you get more bad....that is why I chose a coach!)

Many of my coaches and mentors use the analogy of a mirror. Everyone around us is a reflection of things in us that we need to work on. It is a difficult thing to do to look at things that way sometimes but it is SO powerful in healing. As you heal yourself he really will begin to change without you even nagging him to do it!!!!

Will keep an eye out for future posts. I know you can have that dream life you deserve and your husband really can become a prince charming. 

Remember you will have to do this healing anyway, it's SO much easier and SO much more rewarding to do it with someone you have already "trained" on some of you then finding yourself out there alone in the world and in the single life again (and you'll be able to help your kids SO much more when they get to a troubled spot in their relationships!)


----------



## onepotatotwo (May 17, 2011)

SLRLeann, I relate alot to what you said in your post. What experiences we go though during childhood, we carry into our adult life. You grew up in an abusive home from the sounds of things, and you're carrying that baggage into your adulthood. You've been conditioned to "accept" bad behavior and whatnot as "normal".... I'm in the same boat. I grew up in an abusive atmosphere, and consequently, when my relationships have been stormy, I felt comfortable...and now that I'm miserably married, I feel 'comfortable' or complacent in the misery. 
Part of my going to counseling has been to fix *me*... I don't focus on the marriage or H...I focus on me, and how to deal with my own emotional baggage. It's really really hard work. I can see the patterns and I try to break out of them, but if my buttons are pushed hard enough, I can't seem to break out. H really knows how to push my buttons, so I unfortunately respond in ways I'm not proud of and that don't show growth.

I understand how you feel about your marriage, but if you were to inject a 'healthy' person in to your life or mine, they would say "no frikkin way!" and totally bail. Healthy people--people who haven't been *conditioned* to abuse, can spot dysfunction quickly and separate themselves from it. Others like ourselves tend to get caught up in it because it is *familiar*. 

I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that having your own individual counselor can help you put the pieces of you back together and build a better you. I'm hoping that one day when I feel more "fixed" or complete or whatever, I'll have the strength to leave my mess and start living a life that actually makes me happy. I wish you the same...


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Update:

I've been going to a therapist. In the beginning I was pretty blunt with her in saying that I don't want to spend 10 sessions discussing "why" I have these tendencies or "how" I got to where I am today. I get that. I understand codependency as much as anyone can due to tons of googling and reading. I know although most of these behaviors are imbarressing to admit they're true and what I need out of this is exactly HOW to move forward. How to make new habits and how to train myself to be different. From judging others, trying to control others behaviors, making others responsible for how I feel, etc etc. She's having me go through that alanon 12step etc and also we're doing "exercises" to form new habits and all. Such as when I look at someone like a coworker being very aware of my thoughts, instead of judging - looking for something to compliment them on then doing it. Funny how complimenting them makes me feel better than judging them did. Anyhow...

So, my husband had commented he wanted marriage counseling or to be involved in what I'm doing. I told him I didn't want marriage counseling, I didn't even want to work on my marriage. Right now this is about me. Only me. Not my marriage, not my family just me. I sense that's he's worried. Any day he knows I've had an appointment he acts differently. Nicer, smiles more, offers to help with something like the dishes, just different. He keeps saying that he's changed and is not this "monster" he use to be but thinks I can't see that and am not open to this new him. And of course I had always said, yes you changed but your still a short tempered, pestimistic non-engaged person who is still selfish and doesn't contribute to the home or marriage but rather sit in the reclyiner watching me meet everyone else's needs physically and mentally. SO>>> I told him if he is correct, then he should have absolutely nothing to worry about. If he's correct then when I'm done with this I should be a healthier person and see that things between us are as great as he thinks they are - right? He paused after I said that and seemed at a loss for words. I honestly think he's worried. Worried this is going to make me a stronger person and that it will give me strength to keep improving my life which means getting rid of anyone unhealthy in it - including him. I've also said to him that if when this all over with I am still with him it's because I feel that by being with him I see a happier healthier me. I see "us" as being a very positive thing and that my life is better with him in it. 

So, here's my thoughts on this: I will probably end up having no trouble saying goodbye to him if my therapy is successful and he continues to sit back believing I am the only problem here. So he'd better step up to the plate, be open to the fact that although he's not the monster he use to be, he still has alot of work to do if he wants to be a positive thing in my life he needs to start looking inside himself. He's not stupid. He HAS to realize that I am not the only problem here. My codependency isn't what's keeping our marriage from being fullfilling and happy. My codependency is what is keeping me in a bad marriage. My codependency is what is allowing him to get all his needs met while he sits back not making any effort to contribute to anyone outside of himself. One day i'm going to be healthy enough to stop trying to "change" him and leave him responsible for himself.

He told me that this arguement we'd had about a week ago was because he was worried about me and if i was going to ever touch those pills again. He'd snapped at me when I forgot to pay something and was really mean saying "obviously I can't trust you to do anything, give me the rest of the daamn bills so I can take care of them!!". Yelling and very angry over this att bill i forgot to pay and we were now a few days late. He says he wants me to know that that's not him. It was only because he was worried and that now that I'm going to counseling to get help he won't have to worry about me touching those pills again. (basically saying since I'm getting help he won't have reason to be a jerk anymore) My response: OMG! you have GOT to be kidding me! There ya go... making ME responsible for your angry outbursts. I don't care WHY you were feeling the way you were. YOU CHOSE to act the way you acted. And if you don't learn to quit making others responsible for your anger your going to be left in the dust when this is all said and done. Then you can feel free to make me responsible for your broken heart and being alone :lol:


----------



## AnAvgDude (Jun 20, 2011)

SLR...

You have gained a lot of strength and momentum in taking control of your life. Kudos to your progress. You're an inspiration.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Update and help please from those who are familiar with my story or those willing to read it all.

I've been in therapy and also starting a CoDA meeting tomorrow night. Codependene anoymous. I won't go over all the details up to this morning but... 
Last night it was 2 in the morning and he was still snoring loud and his leg (he has a disorder where he has leg jerking movements all night in his sleep) which moves the whole bed. I quietly got up, got my robe and was going to sleep in the guest room. He woke up and said "omgod! WHAT am I doing NOW!" There is no way i can show the tone in writing. But he was obviously very mad. I said i was just going into the other room cause i haven't been able to fall asleep now and his response was "you freakin crack me up!" i left while he was talking. 

This morning i was up and when he come out, plopped in his reclyner and after a minute or so asked again "so tell me miss dearie that can never be happy, what was i freakin doing to upset you THIS time!" Again, the tone very scarcastic or whatever.. I said something like "ya know, I'd like to point this out as one of the examples of what I mean when I say i'm not ok with you talking to me like this (mind you i swear i'm being polite, not raising my voice etc etc) so from there we spent the next hour on this.

He says that 
*I went from being totally ok with total dysfunction and a doormat to everyone to expecting perfection. 
*He says that everyone fights, and it's selfish of me to not allow him to ever be upset about anything. 
*I'll never be happy with anyone expecting perfection and being that selfish. 
*How i could be willing to throw away 18yrs and hurt our son being so selfish.



I say...
*I've learned how to set boundaries and I don't want to be talked to like that.
*Yes, everyone fights and I'm ok with that. money, discipline etc. But to talk to me like that over my leaving the room at 2 a.m. is NOT normal 
*If i'm expecting perfection and will never get what i'm asking for then i'd rather be alone because i'm miserable living like this.
*I'm sorry you look at it as throwing away. I look at it as claiming me and looking out for what's best for me. 



What i'm going to need alot of help with in my counseling and coda sessions is what is and is not acceptable boundaries. Am i really asking for perfection? Am I not open to faults in others now. Have I gone from one extreme to another?

I've also read a codependcy book and just bought 2 more on setting boundaries.

P.S. I keep remembering something my son said to me a few weeks ago. he'd stayed the night with a new friend and it didn't look like a healthy home. Very dirty, junk, unclean looking etc. I don't wanna judge someone from looks and only asked him afterwards was everything ok and he comfortable and all in the home? Parents were ok, not drunk or fighting or anything. His response "mom, none of my friends parents fight like you guys do and they're moms aren't walking around crying and their dads aren't mad all the time and are cool." wow. that hit me so dang hard. what is this 12yr olds perception of his family. what is he going to grow up to feel is normal? 

I think...momma woke up and smelled the coffee. Momma is learning to be "normal" and what not. Dad is being caught on the short end here. He is being expected to either live up to my expectations or loose me. It sounds good and justifiable yet sounds horrible and selfish and unfair :-(


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

update to above.
it's been a few hours. he says lets go get in the shower. I said, how is it you can call me selfish and all one minute to want to get in the shower the next? :scratchhead: 
He said something like "because! we've not been having sex but maybe twice a month! You said you'd give me a fair chance when you stayed. Maybe if you gave me sex once in awhile things would be better"

I said sooooo your telling me not having sex is causing you to treat me like crap? He says it's not healthy to not have sex and i'm sure your little therapist will tell you that too. 

what?

And i didn't say this but I have no no no desire to sleep with him right now. So, i need him to be nice to me in order to want to sleep with him. And he needs sex to want to be nice to me. a big circle.???
:scratchhead:


----------



## Avalon (Jul 5, 2011)

SLRLeann said:


> I can see that. Actually I've daydreamed about HIM having one! lol sounds pretty demented but i recall wishing he'd have one to "let me off the hook without guilt". I've heard this is normal thoughts though.
> 
> I think for me it's the act of leaving that scares me..


I hear you, and I'm right there in the same spot you are in my marriage. I've never dealt with abuse of any kind, but have lived with a completely apathetic person for too long and I've been married to a stranger for almost 23 years. I KNOW I've been ambivalent about leaving, and I know I'm the only one who can make that final decision to leave. I've also thought to myself that it would be great if my husband would do something stupid like have an affair or porn on the computer, because that would give me an excuse to finally call it quits. 

But I'm waking up and coming to the realization that this is my choice, I can stay or leave. Nobody is going to make that decision for me, and if I'm unhappy, it's just as much my fault for staying in a dead relationship for as long as I have.


----------



## SLRLeann (Jun 5, 2011)

Went to my CoDA (codependcy anonymous) meeting tonight. Really love it. This is going to be so so good for me! Course i had to break down and cry when discussing old wounds..leave it to me!


----------

