# Openess and Selfishness



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

So.
The day before yesterday my partner and I get into this huge overwhelming fight about many things. 
A lot of what I kept bringing up- which I have over the course of our relationship- is that I feel emotionally neglected. He is very passive in his personality.
Everything that is, has, was, or will be a potential problem for discussion or not-in my opinion- I view it as being placed on the back burner. 
I cannot stand this. Which this makes me so angry, then I want to yell. So that is what I find myself doing. I do not want to do that. 
What issues we have, he says he is not going to talk to me because I cant be talked to and because he doesn't want to get a reaction out of me. OK?! So the question I have for that is, If he doesn't want me to be upset, angry, yelling, etc. Then why am I being ignored? Why are the problems not being addressed? 
I think a lot of this has to deal with our different personalities. I am more the serious, uptight, prioritized and responsible partner. He is very relaxed, easy going, even tempered and sarcastic. ( Nothing wrong with that)- This has something to do with it though right?
Another thing, when we got into our fight, I had mentioned that I was tired of having sex for only two and three minutes. I felt like I was being used. As normally when it happens, we are having sex right before he goes to work, or when we get up-it can also be at a random free moment that we have-I told him that I was aggravated that he couldn't last longer and was upset that we haven't had a passionate, romantic sexual interlude in I don't know how long!
I told him I was a little bored. He said that I seem uninterested in sex. I am not uninterested. My drive has dropped some, due to the fact that I am not satisfied emotionally in our relationship. 
So, he has been trying to introduce toys here recently. He says the reason for that is because he was trying to get me interested. 
I have mentioned to him for a while now that I want him to start going down on me...He says that he loves it...Then why has he only done it a handful of times in 4 years? When I asked him, he says that he has been thinking about it, and thinks he has been selfish. OK?! I just don't believe it. He also made a comment about how he didn't think I wanted it because I never asked him for it...I was so bummed out to think that I have to ask for something that I mention frequently and it still hasn't been done. So I asked him if the fluids or anything else was causation for why he hasn't, he said no. Besides that he said he didn't know why. How do you not know? There is a reason right? I am so frustrated with this. All of it. 

I know I am being selfish. So is he. I just think that we are incompatible on a lot of things. 

I told him at the end of everything, that I have recently fantasized about wanting to feel wanted and embraced by someone who wanted to do it and that if he couldn't attempt to fulfill me emotionally I was going to move on. I don't think it is fair that I am ignored or being defeated with the dang silent treatment every single time...


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

I have been in your husbands shoes. When he says he can't talk to you, he means it. It is easier to not talk about issues if he feels you are going to yell or speak down to him or disregard his feelings.

You are 4 yrs in. When did the sex drop down to only a few minutes? If you told him the way you told us, his ego just took a tremendous blow.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

It has always been around just a few minutes.he just goes really quickly. I have expressed over and over again in many of ways how I am stressed out about him not responding to me emotionally. Alot of stonewalling.

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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bkaydezz said:


> ... my partner and I get into this huge overwhelming fight about many things.
> 
> A lot of what I kept bringing up- *which I have over the course of our relationship-* is that I feel emotionally neglected.
> 
> ...


Marriage counseling. Now.

I was married to someone like your husband. We went to marriage counseling. It didn't work for us. Why? Because my husband was far too invested in keeping things cool, calm, and collected. Even when I never raised my voice.

Disagreements were not tolerated. He thought all anger was bad. Even quiet anger. Which is what he exhibited.

It's called passive-aggression. 

Granted, your husband may be far more low-key than you, but you mentioned he is sarcastic. That is exactly what my ex pulled on me. He couldn't talk directly about what was bothering him. After all, that would require emotional intimacy. And that terrified him. So I got the sarcasm.

I yelled at the beginning. Then I realized he used it as a weapon against me. So I went to the let's-discuss-this-as-adults format. That didn't work either. He simply wanted to avoid discussing emotionally-laden issues.

As I said, get marriage counseling. STOP yelling. I don't care how frustrated you may be. Want to yell? Go for a walk. Remove yourself from the situation.

If hubs won't get into counseling, go alone. 

Because the bottom line is this: There is your side/perspective of this situation, his side/perspective, and somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

Trust me. I know. I lived it. Eventually, I left my ex to remain in the laa-laa land of denial.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> bkaydezz said:
> 
> 
> > ... my partner and I get into this huge overwhelming fight about many things.
> ...


You just hit all points. I'm so glad you understand where I am coming from on the emotional end. It is so hard to deal with. He is very passive. He has rarely, I mean rarely ever raised his voice. Just like you mentioned about how he doesn't even want to address it calmly either; that is more frustrating then anything. I feel like I am alone. He has a habit of saying he will change that, just as I do with getting angry over it...why does it have to be so hard?

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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

It's hard because both of you have different ways in approaching, or denying, a problem.

The thing is, you are focused on him. How about you? You married the guy. You must have known this was his M.O. when you said "I do." 

You can't change or fix him. That is up to him. Why is it hard? Because you want him to see your point of view. You want him to change.

Only he can change himself.

So it's up to you to figure out why you married someone like this, take possession of what you are doing to contribute to the problem, and then get some very serious counseling.

You can change - to a point. He can change - to a point. But it has to be a meeting of the minds.

My estranged husband? He remains avoidant. His life. His choice. I am thankful every single day that I don't have to deal with that crap any longer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

"sarcasm is actually hostility disguised as humor. "

Think Sarcasm is Funny? Think Again | Psychology Today

Stopping Sarcasm | Psychology Today


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband is passive aggressive. 

That's why he uses a lot of sarcasm.

His 2 minute sex, not doing oral, etc? It's a passive aggressive way of expressing himself. He knows that he can hurt you by doing this. And all the while all he has to do outwardly is to say that he does not know why he doesn't go down on you, he can only last a short while.. and he does nothing to improve things.

He knows that oral will please you and prolong sex. So what's his solution? To buy a toy... something that is not him so he does not have to please you.

I agree. Get MC now and let him know that this is serious, you will leave him if things are not fixed.


Be very clear about what you need to fix.. get "His Needs, Her Needs" to help you figure out what you need. He can make his list as well.

And I agree... stop the yelling, etc. Definitely say what you need to say. But do it in a calm, cool manner.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

EleGirl;8972834]"sarcasm is actually hostility disguised as humor. "




I use sarcasm at times to find humor in bad situation I don't consider myself a hostile person so does that make me a anomaly or am I not using sarcasm right :scratchhead:


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> It's hard because both of you have different ways in approaching, or denying, a problem.
> 
> The thing is, you are focused on him. How about you? You married the guy. You must have known this was his M.O. when you said "I do."
> 
> ...



Sorry you went through that too!! I'm glad that you could shed some light on the emotional part for me. 

There is some fixing to do. What were some ways you were able to stop being loud? I find that it has become a habit now. Like I said I don't always do it. But the moment comes and it is what I end up doing. It's horrible. I feel horrible. Then I think and think about what it's doing to me and him and if I'll ever be able to change that now. It's difficult for me to try and view something out of sight since it has been in sight.
Yikes...

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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband is passive aggressive.
> 
> That's why he uses a lot of sarcasm.
> 
> ...


I have been so clear. On what needs to be fixed.
I'm just not being listened too.
Another issue with the toy, why he wanted to try one is for anal. BecAuse I had mentioned how I wanted us to do it. We had before, but it didn't do for him as it did for me. So I brought that up and mentioned how I would like to do it. He wasn't very receptive. He doesn't like the idea of it being my azz that he is putting it in. Ok. I get that. So that's part of the toy thing. I still think some of it is because he can't last long enough so he also wants to incorporate that...
In which I am not fond of him watching me with that thing. I am not even fond of me using it in front of him. I feel nervous...I just don't like the idea of being watched...

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

xakulax said:


> EleGirl;8972834]"sarcasm is actually hostility disguised as humor. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use sarcasm some too in similar situations. There is nothing wrong with having a feeling of hostility/anger/what-ever at a bad situation. 

I believe that the OP is talking about sarcasm at a very different level. I included links to article so that she (and others) could read about hostility expressed as sarcasm. She is an intelligent woman and can figure out for herself if it applies.

ETA: "Of all the tools we use to communicate with others, the sharpest one may be sarcasm. There’s hardly a quicker way to belittle someone than to meet their sincerity with a cutting, sarcastic remark. And “cutting” is the perfect word for it; the Greek meaning of the word “sarcasm” is to tear violently. While sarcasm is not always uncalled for, the leap from funny to irritating, then to offensive, can be quick."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bkaydezz said:


> I have been so clear. On what needs to be fixed.
> 
> I'm just not being listened too.
> 
> ...


I would not be surprised if his not lasting long is a big part of the sex problem. But there are things he can do to give you longer pleasure and to even increase the time it takes him to finish. But it sounds that he is not doing anything to improve things.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

bkaydezz said:


> So.
> The day before yesterday my partner and I get into this huge overwhelming fight about many things.
> A lot of what I kept bringing up- which I have over the course of our relationship- is that I feel emotionally neglected. He is very passive in his personality.
> Everything that is, has, was, or will be a potential problem for discussion or not-in my opinion- I view it as being placed on the back burner.
> ...


Wow, I usually lurk and don't comment, however, when i read your post, i felt as if *I* could've wrote this myself! My husband is the exact same way and it literally drives me insane as all of my relationships prior to him were with men that were not passive aggressive. It took me awhile to figure out that it was PA. I too, feel emotionally alone. I initially thought my husband was narcissistic as he also lacks the ability to empathize. When we get into an argument, he can go days without speaking to me and act as if i am not even there. 

Do you try very hard not to snap at him and when you finally blow up, YOU look like the lunatic because....well, your husband is the most well-liked, mellow, non-temperamental guy? and when a situation calls for him to act on something, he doesn't do anything (his lack of action)? 

And, yes....my husband is a little bit more selfish than the norm and also has problems talking about anything involving emotion....however, he is very talkative when it comes to facts (current events, sports, weather, tv shows, movies) because it doesnt involve opening up about how he FEELS on a personal level. After i come home from work, if I express something that happened at the office that bothered me, he would just nod his head (the kind of nodding that tells me he's really not interested) and never engages in the conversation. He is basically very aloof. Although my husband is a lot better with the silent treatments now, he still has a bit of work to do. I'm sorry, i don't have any words of advice. Just wanted to share with you my experience. 

I have never been a very spiritual type of person and I can honestly say that my husband is not all bad, however, I am left feeling extremely frustrated as his passive aggressiveness and his selfishness really gets the better of me sometimes.

Might I add, my husband was also very selfish in the.....ahem, behind closed doors arena. But when i spoke up about that, to my surprise, he changed for the better.


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## Voiceofreason (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes he is passive aggressive, but the question is why. Could be he is conflict avoidant. As you describe the both of you, he is mellow and doesn't like discord and you are a get er done and sometimes yeller wife. He just doesn't want to sort out issues because the process of upsetting you, which upsets him, is too painful for him. So instead he cops out with the passive aggressive stuff. Marriage counseling seems the likely pathway here. This communication stuff is their bread and butter.

As for him not going down on you, perhaps he just doesn't like it but--because he is conflict avoidant and doesn't want to hurt your feelings or feels inadequate--he is not honest with you about it.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

IC, not MC.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> bkaydezz said:
> 
> 
> > I have been so clear. On what needs to be fixed.
> ...


Well, he SAYS he is going too. We will see..

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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Mrs.Sav said:


> bkaydezz said:
> 
> 
> > So.
> ...



That'd is how I feel too. It is getting the better of me. 

Sorry about your situation. I know they aren't bad, but it seems as though the taking has overcome the giving....

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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Voiceofreason said:


> Yes he is passive aggressive, but the question is why. Could be he is conflict avoidant. As you describe the both of you, he is mellow and doesn't like discord and you are a get er done and sometimes yeller wife. He just doesn't want to sort out issues because the process of upsetting you, which upsets him, is too painful for him. So instead he cops out with the passive aggressive stuff. Marriage counseling seems the likely pathway here. This communication stuff is their bread and butter.
> 
> As for him not going down on you, perhaps he just doesn't like it but--because he is conflict avoidant and doesn't want to hurt your feelings or feels inadequate--he is not honest with you about it.


He has mentioned before that he doesn't like confrontation, arguing,etc....from my understanding he was this way in his other relationship and has been very cool and collected even as a child. So something's probably cannot be changed about that. There is nothing wrong with being free and easy going. However, it is a problem when it is emotionally withdrawing. He has had a problem over the course of the relationship also about being honest with his feelings. He will tell me one thing, then later tells me the truth. As to avoid it the first time. I don't understand that either. He says I question to much. So, how do I know then when I need to ask and leave alone? 

As for the sexual thing...he had only had one other partner. They were young when they were together, she was in her early twenties and had two back surgeries due to the sciatic nerve. So she was in a lot of pain. This caused many problems with their sex life. He said that she was unresponsive sexually even before the surgeries. So he never knew if he was doing anything right or wrong..she wouldn't tell him, but he also said he didn't ask. I can see how some inadequacy would stem from that. He said when we got together he didn't know how to take me because I was so opposite of her in every way. Which is normal I think. But he had mentioned that going down on her was the only thing it seemed like she was responsive of a little. She didn't moan make sounds. She was just quiet...then it got to where they rarely ever had sex. So he used porn all the time....they eventually just split up...But, I think a lot of this is also due to inexperience, and performance anxiety. Now he is amazing in bed. Ok. I just want more from him.

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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> IC, not MC.


Why ic?

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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Passive aggressive and conflict avoidant are about him. He needs to get a handle on being an honest, open and authentic person before they can work on anything. Either he becomes stronger in himself and willing and able to deal with the discomfort that comes from confronting conflict and working out problems or marriage counseling will simply result in blame shifting and/or dishonesty.

How she deals with conflict matters too. But the conflict avoidant person controls the situation because you can never get at the truth with them. They punish which can come out in a variety of damaging ways. You can't even get to the actual issue because the conflict avoider makes the simple fact that there IS a conflict the main issue.

It is maddening.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Passive aggressive and conflict avoidant are about him. He needs to get a handle on being an honest, open and authentic person before they can work on anything. Either he becomes stronger in himself and willing and able to deal with the discomfort that comes from confronting conflict and working out problems or marriage counseling will simply result in blame shifting and/or dishonesty.
> 
> How she deals with conflict matters too. But the conflict avoidant person controls the situation because you can never get at the truth with them. They punish which can come out in a variety of damaging ways. You can't even get to the actual issue because the conflict avoider makes the simple fact that there IS a conflict the main issue.
> 
> It is maddening.


Good point of view.

Honesty is hard for him. I can see that. He has mentioned before that he is scared to be honest sometimes. He doesn't want to bring on anything. 

This is hard to deal with. As I said, been dealing with it the whole relationship. I've tried to be understanding of it, but its really been tightening the noose for caring....


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

How do you stop yelling/raising your voice/getting emotional?

You shut your mouth. It's that simple. You go for a walk. You work out hard at the gym. You walk out in the middle of nowhere and scream. You get in your car, drive around, and argue with the invisible man.

I've done it all. It worked. For the most part, I got the anger and rage out of my system.

IC? Because you are focused on HIM. You don't see it. But you are. Own what you can own. Keep your side of the street clean.

Start with that. Once you do, this situation will be more tolerable for you.

Me? I am happy and extremely grateful that I no longer have to waste my precious time and energy with a passive-aggressive, avoidant spouse.

It sucked. And it sucked the life out of me.

I honestly finally enjoy my life - the good and the bad. JMO.


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## gander (May 21, 2014)

(Here I go, first post)

I am just like the OP's husband as far as 'denial' and 'conflict avoidance'. We got through it though and have been married still for 22 years. One reason is that while she is very emotionally blunt and I'm very not, we both deeply respect each other. We are different types and we've reveled in that. 

But yeah, my pa stressed our marriage a lot. Why am I pa? One, because I was raised that a household is supposed to be a place of tranquility. Arguments are a sign that I'm failing as a husband; to the point of paralysis even. I've gotten much better on that but it took a lot of mentoring from my wife and her family (less tranquil household  ). 

Secondly, I'm a guy and we fix our 'emotional' problems ourselves by and large and we often just don't get how to fix 'yours'. Oddly enough, we'll stay up all weekend to learn how to fix your car/computer/furnace. I don't know why. 

Third, another guy thing is if you have a problem and it's because I'm not doing something properly and I'm too dumb to get how, stop humiliating me by making me fail this emotion game over and over, and just tell me what to physically do and I'll happily do it every time you ask. You'll be happy, I'll be happy and after 2 or 10 times of giving me direct orders I can understand I just might start to get ahead of you and do them without being asked. Sometimes I'm really that dumb! But I really do want her to be happy!

I hope this helps and good luck to both of you. 

Ps one way to extend a romantic session is nice lingerie which you don't let him take off until you are ready for the finale. You will both enjoy playing through and around the cloth and it makes for a longer playtime.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

We understand the misconceptions that passive aggressive men operate under. That isn't the problem. If understanding could resolve the issue after a while most women would have it licked.

You didn't tell us how exactly the problem was resolved in your marriage except to suggest that she coddled you in a way that got her what she wanted. You still believe everything is about you to some degree - your failings, you're stupidity, etc. 

Passive aggressive men are still emotional children. No woman can deal with that especially once she has actual children and the difference between chronological/emotional children and their passive aggressive husbands is illuminated.

Passive aggressive men don't topically fix their emotional problems themselves. They classify them as wrong and they stuff them. That's a far cry from fixed because deep down they feel the same as always and they act out that feeling in ways they don't even think are related. 

Does your wife believe you have gotten through it or is this your interpretation? Has she actually told you this in clear language?

Men think when the fighting has stopped that the problem has disappeared. That's rarely the case with a passive aggressive spouse. It just means that the non-pa spouse has given up and moved on emotionally. 

So what's your wife's take on your marriage and your passive aggressiveness?


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> How do you stop yelling/raising your voice/getting emotional?
> 
> You shut your mouth. It's that simple. You go for a walk. You work out hard at the gym. You walk out in the middle of nowhere and scream. You get in your car, drive around, and argue with the invisible man.
> 
> ...


IT sounds so simple. It probably also is that simple. Ive been working on it. Been clenching my teeth, and holding my thoughts before they spill out of my mouth. 
I think i am to focused on him. On too many things that i shouldnt be. I know i need to fix myself. It is going to take sometime, but i know i can do it. 

Thanks for helping so much :smthumbup:


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

gander said:


> (Here I go, first post)
> 
> I am just like the OP's husband as far as 'denial' and 'conflict avoidance'. We got through it though and have been married still for 22 years. One reason is that while she is very emotionally blunt and I'm very not, we both deeply respect each other. We are different types and we've reveled in that.
> 
> ...


What is odd i that his home was not tranquil. He said there was a lot of verbal and emotional abuse between his mother and father. He doesn't want to be like them. I am thinking that may also have something to do with it. 

I wasn't raised in a home like that either. But i am that exact opposite. I think i was hardwired from birth to eat stress like candy.

I would not call that dumb, that you need instruction. Or direction, better to say. It is a way to communicate right?

Thanks for the P.S!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bkaydezz said:


> I think i was hardwired from birth to eat stress like candy.


And with that stress comes all the drama, right?

Why do you think you were hardwired to "eat stress"? What was going on in your family that made you accommodate and accept stressful situations?

Without dwelling on your husband's past, why not discuss how you grew up to accept this type of nonsense?

What do you honestly like/love about yourself?

What are your goals/dreams/aspirations for YOU?


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