# 17+ Years Sexless Marriage... 8 Years Ago... Was This An Obvious Booty Call That I Should Have Been Upset By? She says NO.



## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

_All captialization and punctuation is exactly as was typed by the two parties, no emphasis added here._

*J Is:*

Guy My Hasntt Seen Or Talked To, Up Till A Few Weeks Ago(onFB). This FB IM, she admitted when I Caught Her With Other Stuff, That She Had Talked To Guy Here (J) On The Phone (was trying to cover up the other thing, and didn’t know I saw this), And That She Was Talking About Our Marital lssues Wih Him AndThis Made Her (her words “start to feel uncomfortable” BEFORE THIS TEXTING). So Keep That In Mind -He Alreay, Going Into This Has Spoken Via EMail And PhoneToHer, And Knows She Has At Least Said Our Marriage Was In Trouble, I Have The It On PersonalRecording

*E is:*


My Wife.. 3 years after she began the online relationship I put up earlier. This IM session was 8.5 years ago. She still has little to no interest in being intimate, going out with me, or having sex. Says her hormones changed, she’s lazy, a bunch of excuses. But BEFORE AND AFTER 2009, and this 2012... so she has those feelings, am I right or wrong? I know you picture an ugly, poor, weak man... but I’m in much better shape than she, I am just as good looking looks wise... I make good money, and bring in even more, we live on a lake with a boat, new cars, decent house, dog, and I am physically a strong person. But yes, I am a PLEASER, and I HAVE let her take my balls. I’m weak in that way, no need to make the jokes, I get it. I just wanted to get a final check of myself...

Is the below IM session what I believed it to be, or not?

First post:
Sexless Marriage - 17+ years and counting, IM, Wife...


When I confronted her with it....

She THEN claimed that this was just saying hi to an old friend, that yes she was embarrassed to have me see it, but I HAD NO RIGHT TO ASSUME ANYTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, says what she wrote was not a “fairly” naked attempt at an intial “booty call.” He lived with his parents very close to my wifes mother. He had gotten divorced and moved back from out west. His “art” is basically copy and pasting to make posters for shows, and sketches that to me closely resembled the work of Napoleon Dynamite. For real. So to me, this was as obvious as could be, but I wasn’t even allowed to bring up any detail in marriage counseling, AND to get back in the house with my kids (who this is ALL about, not that I don’t love my wife, I WANT her to WANT ME. I am weak, that’s obvious, but what else can I do?). And is this not obvious below....


------==----------------------=----------------------------


J-: ah the strangeness of online dating


mywifE: ohhh boy ..MY FRIEND met her now husband on there!


J: i feel like rip van winkle


E: ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you'll do great


J: its all adventure


E: I can imagine...and you are a tough nut to crack!!! have you gone on any dates?


J: nope. just signed up last week. maybe tuesday


E: GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*J: im just kind of torn as to what i want. i really have to get laid badly but i don't want to meet up with any nutzies. and on the other hand i want the "soul mate" type. I gal i can just have as the companion ...so theres a conflict


E: Its a tough call...get laid and stay out of a commit for now...this is fresh*


J: after my wife im gun shy


E: of course..thats why you should just have fun...go out and date..dont get heavy. well my friend...i hope it goes well!!!


*J: again...its just more adventure


E: life is an adventure...I can see you living that 100% * you might not have to look to far..your friend ONLINE WOMAN is captivated by you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


J: yeah well shes a nut


E: ha! she is sweet on you!!!


J: she was on my for a while


E: literally?


J: so I decided to test her boundaries/get rid of her...no just commenting constantly...so i said to her... so WOMANS NAME, when are we gonna ****?


E: *you are way to smart..I would never **** with you in that way!!! you would make minced meat of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


J: it had the effect of a big bomb being dropped with barely any casualties


E: the best kind! but...she is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


J: right. shes back


E: does she know you are "single"


J: she actually kicked me in the balls when I was 10


E: ha!


J: in the TOWN public school yard.


E: do I know her?


J: probably not. LASTNAME was her name.


E: she is creepin on you...the comments on your pix were WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


J: she is attractive and i was semi kidding


E: nope...i dont know her


*J: yeah she's a dumb bell


E: arent the all, get used to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


J: so annoying. but she does somehow understand what im trying to get at aesthetically with my art


E: its hard being admired...take it for what it is...longing from a freak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! still good right?


J: she actually articulated it lucidly once. she didnt know what she was saying, but i did. i only want to be admired by people "better" than me


*E: why i would never mess with you… verbally*


J: everyone else...well i dont really care


*E: you are way to well spoken and can put it in writing far to quickly!!!


J: why dont we go out one night


E: I will set up a night when I am at my Moms and we can meet up...that would be great...i have to warn you...i just quit smoking after 25 years (gross) so I am squishy right now to say the least!!!! Weight Watchers is actually starting this week, so no fat jokes are allowed


J: ok, well I wont go out for a cigarette.  squishy's fine.  plus you're a familiar*


E: nope you can...just hold it in and blow it in my face!! I went to the beach this W/E with my 2 B/F's and for the 1st time ever was the non smoker...it ****ing sucks


J: you probably have a nervous thing. nervous oral fixation


E: nope...just ****ing love smoking!


J: i had it once too but it seems to have subsided


E: good..dont do it


J: ive never thought of it as a nicotine addiction. always more pyschological to me.


E: i want one now!!!


J: just stick your thumb in your mouth. haha. sorry to bring it up. wait you brought it up.


E: I wish it was that easy





they go on discussing his job, and how IT people and non-creative people suck (ME).





E: I must say Good Night.... until next time.


J: ok. have a better one


E: smile J


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I, just a friendly conversation. Why are you so paranoid?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

This doesn't look terribly awful to me?


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> I, just a friendly conversation. Why are you so paranoid?


I am a very sensitive wussy. I had this very statement (almost), and more spit at me in a Dr's office as well as home. 
I am a little Sheldony (Big Bang Theory, NOT that I'm SMART as him, I just don't always pick up on sarcasm etc). 

Are you just being sarcastic? Sorry if I'm an idiot, I am just so tied up, the D word is coming up, and I can't lose my kids, and I WISH I still had a wife who loved me. I have NOT seen anything like this nor had reason to suspect anything since this. MAYBE she did give it up. I HAVE to believe her if I want to love her and stay in my home with my children. I can't be without them, and I really do love my wife even if she did this. So socker loser, yes. But seriously, you're not the only one, IS THIS JUST A FRIENDLY CONVO?


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

LosingHim said:


> This doesn't look terribly awful to me?


I repeat the same thing, I'm clueless. This is sarcasm, or am I so paranoid that this thing for the past 9 years I thought was a booty call WAS just innocent? Please be straight with me, I'm hurting badly, and I want to know if my wife is right, or if my feelings are right. Not that it will change me lying down to be with my wife and kids in our home... but it will at least either tell me some people see it the way she portrays it (including the fact they were talking about OUR marriage on the phone BEFORE this IM), or if its totally obvious.

Without sarcasm, and truthfully, from 1 (being innocent of anything other than talking to a person from hs who she was never really friends with), to 100, she was ABSOLTEULY going for a booty call, and that SHE was the one pushing hardest....
Thank you, and sorry if I'm just clueless here. It's why I posted here. Your kindness and opinions mean a lot to me. Thank you again.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I don't see this as a booty call at all. Who is this guy to her? I don't see where you addressed that. Is it an ex boyfriend? A friend? A coworker?


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

LosingHim said:


> I don't see this as a booty call at all. Who is this guy to her? I don't see where you addressed that. Is it an ex boyfriend? A friend? A coworker?


Thanks for asking, maybe it wasn't clear. This guy was a grade above her in HS (graduated in the late 80s/early90s), and had just got back to our state after moving out west and then getting a divorce. They saw each other on Facebook, and had some talks I didn't see. When I saw this, I just held it, and gave some strong hints to her about cheating, etc. I was watching the whole time, and she didn't write this J again for 3 weeks. When she did, she asked how things were going, and he was quite rude back. Her "Hey! How are things? Go on any good dates?" His reply.. "why, what does it matter to you?" The it got a tad more friendly, and I stopped watching because I found the stuff from the link in my post above, and confronted her with that and this. But in doing so, got her to tell me she had been talking to this guy J on the phone, and could tell it was getting a little too close and "weird," so she stopped. Except, no she didn't, she didn't yet know I had this IM session. Not only not an ex boyfriend, not even really a friend, not in the same grade, had a couple of friends in common. I saw an email she sent to her friend mentioning J to her. She said "You have to call me, I need to tell you about the J situation. He's such an arrogant ass, but call me I'll tall you." Again, not PROOF of anything. The parts that I highlighted are what made me think booty call....
*J: im just kind of torn as to what i want. i really have to get laid badly but i don't want to meet up with any nutzies. and on the other hand i want the "soul mate" type. I gal i can just have as the companion ...so theres a conflict


E: Its a tough call...get laid and stay out of a commit for now...this is fresh*
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-
*E: why i would never mess with you… verbally*


J: everyone else...well i dont really care


*E: you are way to well spoken and can put it in writing far to quickly!!!


J: why dont we go out one night


E: I will set up a night when I am at my Moms and we can meet up...that would be great...i have to warn you...i just quit smoking after 25 years (gross) so I am squishy right now to say the least!!!! Weight Watchers is actually starting this week, so no fat jokes are allowed


J: ok, well I wont go out for a cigarette. squishy's fine. plus you're a familiar*


E: nope you can...just hold it in and blow it in my face!! I went to the beach this W/E with my 2 B/F's and for the 1st time ever was the non smoker...it ****ing sucks
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The breathless compliments she showers him with, the fact she called other girls dumbbells or freaks (which she DOES NOT DO, EITHER OF THOSE). But did with him.... in my opinion, to get his attention, show she was submissive and understood his need, then immediately had plans on how to meet up. I was watching the IM, she had been typing something else before he said we should go out.. she immediately erased it, and typed her answer in a second!
*E: I will set up a night when I am at my Moms and we can meet up...that would be great...i have to warn you...i just quit smoking after 25 years (gross) so I am squishy right now to say the least!!!! Weight Watchers is actually starting this week, so no fat jokes are allowed

-=-==-=--=-=--

Any why so important what she looks like or is a bit overweight? Because she doesn't want him to get there and run if he thinks shes too fat. IMO. And the smoking thing is a lie too! Then his answer (relate it back to what he tells her at the beginning, he needs to get laid, but doesn't want to run into any "nutzies." After she tells him yes I want to go, but I'm "squishy," his answer is "i wont go out for a smoke. squiskys fine. PLUS YOURE A FAMILIAR. Read that again in terms of the conversation. He needs sex, just sex, she encourages him (left there it's one thing), but then it goes on to going out together behind my back, and those other things come up?

Again, maybe I'm totally wrong. Seems like it so far. That makes me glad. But weirded out that I could have read this so different. 

And to answer your question, no past relationship other than being in the same school, knowing a few of the same people, and running into each other on FB after he got back to the East Coast because he couldn't hold it together out west and had to slink back home.*


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Don't really see a hook up going on there. I see two old friends. One trying to help the other after a divorce dip back in the dating pool the other making fun of smoking addicion.

Now the fact they are opposite sex could cross boundaries in some marriages but the conversation itself is nothing of note in my opinion.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

nwnjtrm said:


> I repeat the same thing, I'm clueless. This is sarcasm, or am I so paranoid that this thing for the past 9 years I thought was a booty call WAS just innocent? Please be straight with me, I'm hurting badly, and I want to know if my wife is right, or if my feelings are right. Not that it will change me lying down to be with my wife and kids in our home... but it will at least either tell me some people see it the way she portrays it (including the fact they were talking about OUR marriage on the phone BEFORE this IM), or if its totally obvious.
> 
> Without sarcasm, and truthfully, from 1 (being innocent of anything other than talking to a person from hs who she was never really friends with), to 100, she was ABSOLTEULY going for a booty call, and that SHE was the one pushing hardest....
> Thank you, and sorry if I'm just clueless here. It's why I posted here. Your kindness and opinions mean a lot to me. Thank you again.


I rate it a 9.
And I think that you are way over blowing this. Look you have a right to be upset about being in a sexless marriage so you don't have to look for trouble where it doesn't really exist.

If you have been holding on to this for 9 years that's a problem.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

nwnjtrm said:


> I WISH I still had a wife who loved me.


I want to put it here like the old Deustchman put it.... you can vish in one hand, and scheist in the other.....and ve'll see vich one fills up faster....

I am sorry that you use this word "wish", because I know your use of that word means you will NEVER have a wife who loves you as long as you stay with this woman.

I fully concur with your opinion, with one exception to the word "still". You know, and I know, that your wife NEVER loved you. She loved your money and your tolerant attitude to the biodegradable extrusion of her anal sphincter upon your face.

Sorry. You are playing "the waiting game". I understand why. and, I understand your paranoia. When your kids grow up, tell her to hit the phucking pike....


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, it's becoming clear that you are getting something out of the drama-fest that is this near-obsessive pondering about your wife and your marriage. 

The fact is, you two do not have much of a marriage. You can't trust her. She isn't in to you. She's an alcoholic. She's been unfaithful. You're obsessing over conversations from nearly a decade ago looking for any hint that she was setting up a booty call. Neither of you have good boundaries. Both of you seem attached to drama. Neither of you seem to understand what a healthy marriage looks like. You two don't love each other - at least not in any way that is healthy, functional, or even really recognizable as love.

This is a train wreck of a relationship. And it has been for a long, LONG, time. 

Unless you're an unfit parent, you will not lose your children. You will most probably get 50/50 custody. 

I think you should do some work on yourself. Get your head on straight. Learn about healthy relationships. Learn how to create and enforce boundaries. Work on building your self-esteem. Get as amicable a divorce as possible. Be a great dad to your children. 

Or, you can stay. But, if you choose to stay, you really need to stop looking for "gotcha!" moments. You know she isn't faithful. You know she doesn't love you. If you choose to stay, you need to stop digging. You aren't going to change her and you aren't going to "fix" her - or your marriage. Looking for more evidence of the readily apparent truth does nothing but keep you anxious and unhappy. So, stop pain shopping and learn to find peace with what is.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

nwnjtrm said:


> I am a very sensitive wussy. I had this very statement (almost), and more spit at me in a Dr's office as well as home.
> I am a little Sheldony (Big Bang Theory, NOT that I'm SMART as him, I just don't always pick up on sarcasm etc).
> 
> 
> Are you just being sarcastic? Sorry if I'm an idiot, I am just so tied up, the D word is coming up, and I can't lose my kids, and I WISH I still had a wife who loved me. I have NOT seen anything like this nor had reason to suspect anything since this. MAYBE she did give it up. I HAVE to believe her if I want to love her and stay in my home with my children. I can't be without them, and I really do love my wife even if she did this. So socker loser, yes. But seriously, you're not the only one, IS THIS JUST A FRIENDLY CONVO?


Sorry bro.
I can see you’re in a tight spot.
I could have sworn you already posted this in an older thread. 
Yes, your SO is clearly, obviously, 100% metaphysical certitude level, chasing ****.

There’s nothing to analyze. Divorce her


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I rate it a 9.
> And I think that you are way over blowing this. Look you have a right to be upset about being in a sexless marriage so you don't have to look for trouble where it doesn't really exist.
> 
> If you have been holding on to this for 9 years that's a problem.


I appreciate you input. I really was expecting to have my thoughts validated, but I can see from the responses that people weren't messing with me, that it could be innocent.
But just to be clear.. they were NEVER friends. Not in HS (he was above her in grades), before or after. She saw him on FB, that's where this starts in turns of friendships. And whatever came before this may rightly be called helping a divorced "friend" (a new one who went to your high school, and knew a couple of your friends). But in her own words, she'd called him, talked to him about his divorce, and told him about the "problems" in our marriage. That's the ONLY "friendship" other than knowing people in common they had up till a few weeks before this IM (I could see when they became friends on FB). And in those weeks, she was on the phone with him, and talking to him about his and our relationship, and telling him about our "problems." So he knew darn well that she was vulnerable that way. Not that he needed to be. I guess you read what she wrote, and without knowing her, might think that's the way she talks or writes. IT ISN'T EVER. Not to me, not to anyone else. Calling another woman a dumb-bell, a freak, these are things that with her and her sort of feminist beliefs that I (being with her nearly 20 years) have NEVER heard from her, and if I heard her saying it on the phone, I'd have to swear the girl kissing up to this guy, asking about his love life (she had earlier, and she did a few weeks later despite my warnings about online cheating) WAS NOT my wife, just someone who sounded like her! Seriously. Imagine a feminist (not a crazy one, just believes in equality, etc) saying these types of things to a guy. Imagine this was your wife of ~10 years and you'd never heard it. Imagine that the only reason you were watching was because one night you were meeting her at a bar, and were calling to say you'd be 5 minutes behind. THEN, she THINKS she hung up her cell, but didn't. And you get to listen to 2-3 minutes of her talking **** about you to a bartender. Telling him what a worthless idiot you are, telling him to never get married, etc. Then the next week you find software that can screen record on YOU laptop that she's using, and the FIRST NIGHT you turn on the live viewer as your watching a movie in the other room with you little boy, you watch this conversation unfold......
,maybe i should have but that in the first one, but as shameless as i am, i AM SHAMED by who I am. I wish I was more of a man. But to me, a man doesn't leave his children if he has a choice. And even if I am to be disrespected until they leave home, that's what I'm going to do. I DO love my wife. I know this one IM WAS her trying to get together with him. Would they have hooked up? Maybe not if she decided not to. But she was angry at me (I did some bad things too, I had mental health issues (have since before we were together, and told her every single thing about it before we slept together), and Rx issues for almost 2 years). She had reason to be looking for love in other places I guess. But given all of this, still, you feel this was innocent?
If so, that makes me feel really good. And in addition, when I confronted her, when she said nothing would have ever happened, I asked her if she thought J thought the same thing, or did she think that J was under the impression that you wanted to "get together" with him? She said honestly I believe, that if she were him, she would probably be expecting it. But that doesn't mean I would have! If you read the old 17+ years link you'll understand more about her and infidelity (she says no). I say if you don't tell your husband, and you are writing a guy ~300x in ~2 years, talking on the phone (references to it in the emails), tell him about sexy dreams you had (two of them), say "i love you XXXX" (a couple of times, when things were a bit more serious, though she says she says I love you all the time to friends: some maybe, but only her closest ones), wind up meeting up without telling me about it, leave your kids at your moms and meet up. Then afterward bring him by and introduce him to the kids. Something tells me that nothing happened. So maybe it wouldn't have here either.

But at the very least, given all of this, and the reason and way I found it, and the place she was in with me... still.... is this just an innocent conversation in your opinion? EVEN if she has the right to say nothing happened (I caught her before she could meet with him, and how do I know that was the first?) and I can't blame her for something that didn't happen, and wasn't ever EXPLICETLY going to happen.

She has a point? I have kept this in my craw and decision making for all these years for nothing? Thank you all very much for the time and though you put into this, it really is greatly appreciated. Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday Season.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Sorry bro.
> I can see you’re in a tight spot.
> I could have sworn you already posted this in an older thread.
> Yes, your SO is clearly, obviously, 100% metaphysical certitude level, chasing ****.
> ...


I thought I post the IM, but couldn't find it. Thanks for the post, and you and me seem to be the only one with that belief (only that I won't divorce her) that this is 100% chasing (not just friendly, not him chasing her, she is throwing herself at him, no? Please let me know I'm not nuts, and that since this was many years ago it doesn't change anything, but I'd like ot know someone else sees this as a total chase by her. And if I posted a dozen or so of the email affair she was having, this throwing is NOTHING in comparison. Thanks for taking the time. Peace my friend.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Rowan said:


> OP, it's becoming clear that you are getting something out of the drama-fest that is this near-obsessive pondering about your wife and your marriage.
> 
> The fact is, you two do not have much of a marriage. You can't trust her. She isn't in to you. She's an alcoholic. She's been unfaithful. You're obsessing over conversations from nearly a decade ago looking for any hint that she was setting up a booty call. Neither of you have good boundaries. Both of you seem attached to drama. Neither of you seem to understand what a healthy marriage looks like. You two don't love each other - at least not in any way that is healthy, functional, or even really recognizable as love.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. I have to think about what you said, but even at first blush, you are right. Thing is, I don't want the divorce, so your advice on putting it away and waiting until that time is valid. I REALLY would have liked things to turn. If they had, I wouldn't be thinking or obsessing about this old stuff. Truly. Its that it never became a healthy, loving, INTIMATE relationship after like before. So why should I expect it to change. Thanks for taking the time, I needed to hear that.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

TJW said:


> I want to put it here like the old Deustchman put it.... you can vish in one hand, and scheist in the other.....and ve'll see vich one fills up faster....
> 
> I am sorry that you use this word "wish", because I know your use of that word means you will NEVER have a wife who loves you as long as you stay with this woman.
> 
> ...


Boom.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

“I love my wife”. Is the problem. After the shifty way she has disrespected you and starved you for sec while chasing other ****s, you still awake love her. 
Please don’t glorify your codependency by claiming to stay for your kids. You still love her — a woman that should be unlovable by you. You’re staying because you won’t move on with your life. 
Your wife sucks. You still love her. That’s on you.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

nwnjtrm said:


> Thank you very much. I have to think about what you said, but even at first blush, you are right. Thing is, I don't want the divorce, so your advice on putting it away and waiting until that time is valid. I REALLY would have liked things to turn. If they had, I wouldn't be thinking or obsessing about this old stuff. Truly. Its that it never became a healthy, loving, INTIMATE relationship after like before. So why should I expect it to change. Thanks for taking the time, I needed to hear that.


The only thing I would disagree with is the drama part. Maybe she likes it, but I don't. Is it drama if YOU are the only person who has knowledge of it (till you post it on a marriage board nearly a decade later?)? She has family and close friends (women) she shares everything with. She's a very nice person, fun to be around, a very good mom. I mostly just work, and that's it. I had work friends, but as I've moved jobs, and gotten older, I just haven't. All of my buddies have scattered, and to visit any of them is an hour+ (and their families). The one buddy I had that I'd talk to about something like this passed away in an accident in 2013. I've been pretty lost without him to talk to. We spent almost our entire lives as best friends, and this is the kind of place I never thought I'd need cause I had someone to talk to, and so did he. I don't anymore, and for the past 7 years, I have been obsessing on this stuff, because even though he was there to give his initial opinion, things changed. I'm making it sound like its a sad story for me and not his family. But its the truth that I have no one left to talk to, and here I am. 
But honestly, nobody here knows me, or I wouldn't be saying this, and I was hoping for some advice... and the old stuff was to help me get a clearer opinion of what shes thinking now, and if I'm just hopeless.... sorry and thanks again.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

nwnjtrm said:


> I mostly just work, and that's it. I had work friends, but as I've moved jobs, and gotten older, I just haven't. All of my buddies have scattered, and to visit any of them is an hour+ (and their families). The one buddy I had that I'd talk to about something like this passed away in an accident in 2013. I've been pretty lost without him to talk to. We spent almost our entire lives as best friends, and this is the kind of place I never thought I'd need cause I had someone to talk to, and so did he. I don't anymore, and for the past 7 years, I have been obsessing on this stuff, because even though he was there to give his initial opinion, things changed. I'm making it sound like its a sad story for me and not his family. But its the truth that I have no one left to talk to, and here I am.


Yes, here you are, but you could just as easily be connecting with your real friends from the past via Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever. Those guys are still there. Look them up, see what they're up to, CONNECT with them. The people here on TAM- we're not a substitute for those who actually know you. We believe we see through lies and self-deceit when sometimes we can't, and sometimes it can feel like we're just prying through your life, layer by layer, to get to the truth. And you'll never see us, never share a meal with us, never really know who we are behind the mask of anonymity.

You need to reconnect yourself to the real world, your old friends, the things that kept you grounded when you had questions about life, the universe, and everything. 

Above all, the most-important thing is to not look for answers. More important to figure out what the questions are. Answers can be wrong and sometimes we force ourselves to seek the wrong answers for self-validation. But the questions are real and worthy of discussion with people who know you.

All the best-


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> “I love my wife”. Is the problem. After the shifty way she has disrespected you and starved you for sec while chasing other ****s, you still awake love her.
> Please don’t glorify your codependency by claiming to stay for your kids. You still love her — a woman that should be unlovable by you. You’re staying because you won’t move on with your life.
> Your wife sucks. You still love her. That’s on you.


I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time. I do have to say I don't agree with the co-dendency and glorifying it with the children. Brother, I WANT this to be something about more than the kids. Because I'm willing to take this so long as I can live with them, she says I can find a house nearby and we can do this before we hate each other (odd, that's what her friend has been doing the last 6 months with her family). But anyway, her point was that you love the children, you want to be with them, but you don't love me. i do still love her, no matter what ****ty things went on. i;m no angel either, its just that none of my sins involved betraying her. She is kind of right when she says the only reason I'm around and telling her i love her is i don't want to be without the kids. but i was always taught to love the one you're with, and that the grass isn't always greener. and since i don't want to leave my kids, the only way i can do that is to BE in love with my wife, and I'm also asking in what ways can i do that? that's not a question you can answer without our whole life story, so its rhetorical. but I'm NOT using the kids to make it look like its not her I'm dying for. not so. i';m trying to get myself right, to spark something between us, to bring back real love.
Pipe dream? Even if so what if anything could I do? What book/video etc self-help should i read. I'm losing weight, working out, dressing better. in fact, that bothered her, she thinks i don't love her, and to her that's a sign I'm interested in other women. when i really just want her to pay attention again. would i f* another woman? my d*c* says yes, my mind says no, but what i do know is the KIDS ARE #1 and whatever keeps me in their lives, and keeps family life ok and supportive, I want to do it,. And despite all the messed up stuff (both ways, just not betrayl or abuse of ANY KIND on my part), my prayer was of some way to reignite a flame that feels like it went out 17 years ago.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Yes, here you are, but you could just as easily be connecting with your real friends from the past via Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever. Those guys are still there. Look them up, see what they're up to, CONNECT with them. The people here on TAM- we're not a substitute for those who actually know you. We believe we see through lies and self-deceit when sometimes we can't, and sometimes it can feel like we're just prying through your life, layer by layer, to get to the truth. And you'll never see us, never share a meal with us, never really know who we are behind the mask of anonymity.
> 
> You need to reconnect yourself to the real world, your old friends, the things that kept you grounded when you had questions about life, the universe, and everything.
> 
> ...


I wish I could say I understood everything. Thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful note like that. From what I read, you are right. And I do have those friends still, we text and talk, just never about anything deep, never did. You know what I mean? I had one old friend that we'd shared our lives with each other. At this point, letting any of my other buddies in is burdening them with this, which I only wanted to do to anonymous people. Thank you again for your time, peace.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

nwnjtrm said:


> I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time. I do have to say I don't agree with the co-dendency and glorifying it with the children. Brother, I WANT this to be something about more than the kids. Because I'm willing to take this so long as I can live with them, she says I can find a house nearby and we can do this before we hate each other (odd, that's what her friend has been doing the last 6 months with her family). But anyway, her point was that you love the children, you want to be with them, but you don't love me. i do still love her, no matter what ****ty things went on. i;m no angel either, its just that none of my sins involved betraying her. She is kind of right when she says the only reason I'm around and telling her i love her is i don't want to be without the kids.


Yeah, well, whatever. A lot of rationalizing between two people struggling to deal with why they don't have sex with each other. I don't say that in a mean way; I say that to illustrate the difference here between what is normally seen, where one person wants to leave because he or she is not having his or her needs satisfied. Neither of you is having their needs satisfied, and both have adapted their thinking to believe that's OK.

So what happens when you watch the Ted Talk video "The Sex Starved Marriage." Do either of you see yourselves in this? Can you relate to it? If you haven't seen it, watch it, have your wife watch it, and report back on the conversation you had. The sex-starved marriage | Michele Weiner-Davis | TEDxCU - YouTube


nwnjtrm said:


> I wish I could say I understood everything. Thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful note like that. From what I read, you are right. And I do have those friends still, we text and talk, just never about anything deep, never did. You know what I mean? I had one old friend that we'd shared our lives with each other. At this point, letting any of my other buddies in is burdening them with this, which I only wanted to do to anonymous people. Thank you again for your time, peace.


Don't fear "burdening" your friends with your issues. Many people truly feel good about helping others through crisis. Empathy is, for some, a blessing, a fuel for life. Someone out there likely would feel very happy, very fulfilled, that you sought him out for help. As they say, that's what friends are for.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> Many people truly feel good about helping others through crisis. Empathy is, for some, a blessing, a fuel for life. Someone out there likely would feel very happy, very fulfilled, that you sought him out for help. As they say, that's what friends are for.



I would second this. When my husband had an affair and I finally got proof – I blew it up on facebook. Not my shining moment in life. BUT, I can’t tell you how many people have reached out to me with the start of “I don’t know where else to go, but I know you’ve been through this and was hoping I could talk to you….” While my husbands affair was devastating and still is a lot of times, being crazy and blowing it up on facebook has enabled me to at least try to help others. And I do consider it pretty amazing that people will reach out to me and I’m able to help them, even if it’s just to talk it out and relate a little bit. A lot of things in life can feel pretty damn lonely and there are times I wish I had someone to talk to about things. But if I can be that person to someone else, at least SOME good comes out of the whole situation.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Jeez man! We’re not even married and I want to divorce you. And no sex from me either!!


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

nwnjtrm said:


> since i don't want to leave my kids, the only way i can do that is to BE in love with my wife, and I'm also asking in what ways can i do that?


My answer will not be rhetorical. I am an engineer, and an ex-musician, not a politician. I am talking about something I ACTUALLY KNOW from first-hand experience.

I stayed for my kids. I did not love my wife in any way whatsoever, I did not seek retribution, I did not dwell upon her adulteries in my mind. However, her input was 100% IGNORED by me. I did what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it, I did not ask for her opinion, and I straight-out, flatly told her when she asked me once "do I not have a say in this"..... I simply said "no"....

My attitude:

It is MY money that pays for EVERYTHING here. Not yours, not ours, MINE. I am the one who works for it, earns it, and I will be the ONLY one to administrate it. The only time you may ask me anything about it is when the power company is here turning your lights off. And, I will only solve that problem so our boys have lights and heat. It will not be, in any way, for YOU. And, when our boys are no longer dependent upon me, I will SEE TO IT that you will never, but never, receive a dime of MY MONEY nor a MICROSECOND of my attention.

All it takes is a choice, and the willingness to practice that choice in continuum.

Honestly, after your experience, and mine, I just wouldn't give a carpenter's damn what "ways"..... I don't need ANY "ways". The day when I needed "ways" was over the millisecond she spread her legs for someone else. Oh, yes, I tried to "reconcile", because I thought that was better, for a while. But I was wrong.

I'm glad, in retrospect, that I did what I did for my boys. I am also glad I did none of it for her. She was only a part of the "package".


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OP you say you've done a lot of ****ty things in the marriage just not cheating. Have you ever thought that her feelings for you for whatever reason are dead. If that's true it really doesn't matter how much **** you put up with those feelings won't return. You can't win her back by being less ****ty than she is? Hell you probably can't win them back by being fantastic. You want your marriage back you want you wife but she doesn't want you. 

That isn't a healthy relationship for the kids either. Maybe your wife can move in with her friend and you two can share custody like adults.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm going to be very blunt.

She's there because of money/lifestyle, the kids, and possibly some emotional attachment to you as her long time companion and father of her children. 

You seem to be there because you're too afraid to let go of the idea you have to "love the one you're with" and perhaps spend less time with the (nearly grown) kids. So, you hand wring and navel gaze as precious time ticks by.

The reality is that loving the one you're with doesn't work. It's not genuine. It's more or less you brainwashing yourself so that you can tolerate a sub-par marriage. 

Sometimes the grass _is_ greener. Yes, yes, I've heard "the grass is greener where you water it!". Uh-huh. Except you can water the hell out of some grass and it won't turn green. 

Do I think the exchange you posted is suspicious? Nope. I think her speaking that way is the genuine her and the genuine her is something she doesn't share with you which is why it seemed so out of character to you. I've been a wayward wife. I've had many online and phone conversations with AP's. I've also done quite a few catch-up and nostalgia chats with folks I went to school with back when dinosaurs roamed the burbs. IMO, she was catching up and chatting with someone from back in the day she peripherally knew, listening, venting, commiserating, and that's about it.

And, really, does it matter? Does it matter if she did have an emotional affair or meet up and have sex with some guy she kind of knew back in time? Not really. She doesn't want you in the way a wife should want a husband. That's plain to see. If she'd had an affair, but still loved and desired you, perhaps you could reconcile and build a better relationship. But she doesn't desire you, so how could you build something better when a cornerstone of romantic relationships is missing?

If you want to have a shot at being loved and desired you aren't going to get it married to your wife. The kids are well old enough to call, video chat, text, email, and even arrange you to spend time with them on their own. You'd likely end up with 50/50 custody/parenting time in addition to your ability to reach them and they you at any time. They are old enough to no longer qualify as your excuse to stay.


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## 347483 (Dec 14, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> OP you say you've done a lot of **ty things in the marriage just not cheating. Have you ever thought that her feelings for you for whatever reason are dead. If that's true it really doesn't matter how much ** you put up with those feelings won't return. You can't win her back by being less ****ty than she is? Hell you probably can't win them back by being fantastic. You want your marriage back you want you wife but she doesn't want you.
> 
> That isn't a healthy relationship for the kids either. Maybe your wife can move in with her friend and you two can share custody like adults.


You are actually for more right than you know. Since, I've talked to her in a good way. She admits as much (loss of interest, etc). Blames a lot of it on hormones, which may explain the last 8 years, but not the previous 9. But she also said, that although she appreciated me taking the time to not only tell her every detail of my issues, what I had been treated with (from Prozac to shock), and that even though I was doing well, things through my life (and my moms and my grandmoms and my uncles on that side; same thing; never GOES AWAY). And she admits in tears to me that I HAVE imporived immensely. She admits that every time she's brought issues to me, I've worked on them, admitted (when appropriate) my failings, and in ALL ways have improved to more or less of an extent. But through her tears she admits that (even though we are talking about me being grouchy, snippy, and sometimes biting; not hitting, screaming or yelling, controlling, nothing like that, not Lifetime Movie bullsh*t) even with how hard I've worked, and she knows I have, she's been with me to the Drs and hospital, and seen the changes herself.... she says she has to admit that even though I was open and honest and have worked hard and improved, she's not sure she wants to deal with it anymore, even though she thought she could, and I believe her when she says she wanted to (it's just I think she gave up 2-3 years in, and has been cheating and/or ignoring me and any male/friend needs I have since). 

I hope to convince her to stay with me till the kids are done with school (7 years), then go our separate ways. And God willing my parents live till they're 115! But I pray they don't pass in the next 7 years, she deserves ZERO inheritance. The kids, or course, her NADA. Finish the divorce before, and I'm all good. That's if she doesn't shock me and see what she COULD have (a lifetime of **** you money, I don't think she gets that, and I can't tell her) and is who she was years ago.... or I retire at 60 whatever and head to the country. Thanks everyone. MERYY CHRISTMAS!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

nwnjtrm said:


> You are actually for more right than you know. Since, I've talked to her in a good way. She admits as much (loss of interest, etc). Blames a lot of it on hormones, which may explain the last 8 years, but not the previous 9. But she also said, that although she appreciated me taking the time to not only tell her every detail of my issues, what I had been treated with (from Prozac to shock), and that even though I was doing well, things through my life (and my moms and my grandmoms and my uncles on that side; same thing; never GOES AWAY). And she admits in tears to me that I HAVE imporived immensely. She admits that every time she's brought issues to me, I've worked on them, admitted (when appropriate) my failings, and in ALL ways have improved to more or less of an extent. But through her tears she admits that (even though we are talking about me being grouchy, snippy, and sometimes biting; not hitting, screaming or yelling, controlling, nothing like that, not Lifetime Movie bullsh*t) even with how hard I've worked, and she knows I have, she's been with me to the Drs and hospital, and seen the changes herself.... she says she has to admit that even though I was open and honest and have worked hard and improved, she's not sure she wants to deal with it anymore, even though she thought she could, and I believe her when she says she wanted to (it's just I think she gave up 2-3 years in, and has been cheating and/or ignoring me and any male/friend needs I have since).
> 
> I hope to convince her to stay with me till the kids are done with school (7 years), then go our separate ways. And God willing my parents live till they're 115! But I pray they don't pass in the next 7 years, she deserves ZERO inheritance. The kids, or course, her NADA. Finish the divorce before, and I'm all good. That's if she doesn't shock me and see what she COULD have (a lifetime of **** you money, I don't think she gets that, and I can't tell her) and is who she was years ago.... or I retire at 60 whatever and head to the country. Thanks everyone. MERYY CHRISTMAS!


You know the stay together for the kids is BS. You aren't doing them favors. I remember when my mom told me about the divorce I wasn't shocked. They were in that wait until she is out of high school mode and didn't make it. But I could see two very unhappy people for a long time. I was never surprised. And yeah my life sucked after the divorce but I wouldn't have them go back and be together.


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