# How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?



## cavenger

I just don't know how to get past this issue me and my wife disagree vehemently about. .... and is really affecting our marriage. She won't go to counseling with me and she is totally in disagreement with me. I am at my wits end. Anyone got any ideas?


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## *LittleDeer*

What is the issue?


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## totamm

Compromise and meet somewhere in the middle.


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



*LittleDeer* said:


> What is the issue?


She won't stop being involved in a multi level marketing company ...several of them in fact.


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



totamm said:


> Compromise and meet somewhere in the middle.


There is no way to compromise this issue.


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## Wiltshireman

cavenger said:


> She won't stop being involved in a multi level marketing company ...several of them in fact.


This will be hard but you must get your wife away from these schemes. Be they call;

Multi-level marketing:
Pyramid selling:
Network marketing:
They are all basically the same and none of them are much better than a Ponzi Scheme.

Unless you are in on the ground floor and can live with your conscience you will never make any serious money.


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



Wiltshireman said:


> This will be hard but you must get your wife away from these schemes. Be they call;
> 
> Multi-level marketing:
> Pyramid selling:
> Network marketing:
> They are all basically the same and none of them are much better than a Ponzi Scheme.
> 
> Unless you are in on the ground floor and can live with your conscience you will never make any serious money.


She won't listen to me. I am so frustrated.


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## debster

Will she listen to someone else? I don't know anything about these but is there some 'expert' or experienced person on this subject you can get to talk to her? Is it like Amway or something like that?


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



debster said:


> Will she listen to someone else? I don't know anything about these but is there some 'expert' or experienced person on this subject you can get to talk to her? Is it like Amway or something like that?


Yes it's like amway but not as popular. And tons of people are against these things but if I brought that up she wouldn't listen.


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## Mike6211

cavenger said:


> She won't stop being involved in a multi level marketing company ...several of them in fact.


What, exactly, is your problem with that?

Eg: she will lose all *her* money; she will lose all *your joint* money; she will damage your credit rating; her/your reputation will be damaged amongst family, friends, co-workers?

And if it's losing all her own money, why is that a problem? eg because she won't be able to contribute to joint finances/ will become depressed/ will chase her losses/ will beg, plead, whine and ***** to get her hands on *your* money?


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



Mike6211 said:


> What, exactly, is your problem with that?
> 
> Eg: she will lose all *her* money; she will lose all *your joint* money; she will damage your credit rating; her/your reputation will be damaged amongst family, friends, co-workers?
> 
> And if it's losing all her own money, why is that a problem? eg because she won't be able to contribute to joint finances/ will become depressed/ will chase her losses/ will beg, plead, whine and ***** to get her hands on *your* money?


I don't consider it mine and hers.....but yes. Losing money is a major issue. Is that so bad?


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## Mike6211

cavenger said:


> I don't consider [money] mine and hers.....but yes. Losing money is a major issue...


Yes of course it is, so you need to control how much she can lose. 

You know and I know that it's all going to go down the drain, but your W doesn't seem to realise it. So maybe you can agree an amount high enough for her to realise that she's been a fool once it's gone. What you don't want is to agree a nominal level of investment, her pressing for more when that's gone, and you being on the back foot because what's been lost hasn't actually impacted the family finances.

Perhaps think of missing a couple of years' family vacations, that sort of level?


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## nevergveup

Well,I have a friend who was involved with one many years ago.
Luckily,I got through to him.I asked him,how much money he got paid for going to the boost meetings.He told me $0 and how much 
gas he spent going there.

I also asked him how many friends and family where
avoiding him because of this.All I can tell you, is talk calmly
and give her true facts she can't ignore.There is a chance they might sink in after some time.


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## totamm

You can compromise on this.

She can spend XX amount of money on this endeavor before throwing in the towel.


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



SeaMaiden said:


> Tell her the heartwarming story of my ex who is involved in one of those MLM's... He has the swanky car and title, but what none of his cronies knows is that his daddy had to finance the car for him, he is constantly broke, has no medical insurance or retirement, is $5k in arrears on child support, lives in a one room dive an hour away up in the sticks, and hardly has food in the house when the kids visit. He said to me last month "I just can't count on my downline to make the sales anymore" (I felt like screaming "how about you get a REAL job then?!" But I kept my mouth shut). He's been doing this for 3 years now and hasn't advanced financially since then.
> 
> MLM's will not only suck money from your wallet, but time from your family and she'll become another robot h*ll bent on telling anyone you come into contact with how wonderful the product is and how successful she is - and will drive all your friends and family away in the process.
> 
> If it's a part time thing and she's making a little extra money at it that's one thing, but if she's becoming one of the cult members you need to hold an intervention...


I'm so miserable about this. It's like she is doing it to just prove that I can't control her. Which I am not trying to control her. ...I am just against it. And lost in all of this is the time she spends away from us.


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## SimplyAmorous

1st let me say Cavenger -- YOU are the brains of the outfit - Unless your wife is some type of bulldog who wants to EAT SLEEP and BREATH this Marketing Co.... she is only wasting her energy, the families $$ / the families TIME/ gas.... and frankly, what spouse would be OK with that ??

If she refuses to hear you, you simply need to do your homework.. online if you must.. and find stories where people have nose dived...I mean really...does she fall for Snake Oil salesman this easy? Does she believe every info commercial too?

I had a friend like this, she didn't have money, but her Passion for believing she would beat the odds was a little insane to me, she never did of course but wasted more $$.... she went through a variety of sellings..I just shook my head....my warnings to her were in vain... had I been married to her, I'd probably raise the roof....it can't be easy..

If she can't be Reasoned with - with the facts...what do you have left - but let her crash & burn... then tell her... "I told you so".

Is her Company on THIS LIST >> MLM Watch-The Skeptical Guide to Multilevel Marketing 

Here is an extensive article >> What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?



> *Confidence Men and the Shadow Pyramid*
> 
> The age-old technique of "con men" is to create "confidence" in some otherwise dumb idea by diversion of thought, bait, or force of personality. The victim gets confidence in a bogus plan, and, in exchange, the con man gets your money. MLMers are very high on confidence.
> Since the brain inevitably intrudes itself into the delusion that an MLM could ever work, spirits drop and attitudes go sour. But this depressive state can itself be exploited. As doubts grow when the MLM does not do what recruits were first "con"fidenced to expect, then a further profit can be made keeping the confidence going against all common sense.
> 
> Thus, a parallel or "shadow" pyramid of motivational tapes, seminars, and videos emerges. These are a "must for success," and recruits are strong-armed into attending, buying, buying, and buying all the more. This motivational "shadow pyramid" further exploits the flagging recruits as they spiral inexorably into oversaturation and failure. The more they fail, the more "help" they need from those who are "successful" above them.
> 
> So, MLMs profit by conning recruits up-front with a "distributorship fee," and then make further illicit money by "confidencing" these hapless victims as they fail via the "sale" of collateral material.
> 
> *Special MLM "Job" Offer: A Losing Proposition*
> 
> Would a rational person, abreast of the facts, go to work selling any product or service if he or she knew that there was an open agenda to overhire sales reps for the same products in the prospective territory?
> What do you think? Is this a good "opportunity" or a recipe for collective disaster?
> 
> So, as the saying goes, "Get in early!" This is a rationalization on the level of "getting in early" on the L.A. looting riots. If profit from the sale of products is fundamentally set up to fail, then the only money to be had is to "loot" others by conning them while you have the chance. Don't miss the "opportunity," indeed!
> 
> Where is the money coming from for those at the top? From the sucker at the bottom... as in every pyramid scheme. The product could be, and lately has been, anything.
> 
> The important thing is to exploit people while the exploiting is good, if you want to make quick money at MLM.


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## cavenger

I don't know what she is doing and she is hiding it from me.....it's really passing me off.


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## Entropy3000

cavenger said:


> There is no way to compromise this issue.


Somethings can not be a compromise. I agree.


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## Entropy3000

cavenger said:


> I don't know what she is doing and she is hiding it from me.....it's really passing me off.


Then you may have to cancede to her you cannot control her but you also cannot accept her doing this. And that ultimately she will have to do it on her own ... sans you. 

Besides the money ... which is important, is there a lifestyle issue you have with this?


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



Entropy3000 said:


> Then you may have to cancede to her you cannot control her but you also cannot accept her doing this. And that ultimately she will have to do it on her own ... sans you.
> 
> Besides the money ... which is important, is there a lifestyle issue you have with this?


Sure...her time away from me and the family. See. ..they have these stupid rah rah sales meetings.


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## Wiserforit

This is like being in a cult. Or addicted to a drug. From what you have said, she is worst case scenario. 

Finances are a joint asset, so setting a limit on what she can spend before you start filing for divorce is what it's going to take.


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## Mike6211

Wiserforit said:


> This is like being in a cult. Or addicted to a drug....


A bit like an EA, but with the emotional energy going into the MLM organisation rather than into an OM.



cavenger said:


> I don't know what she is doing and she is hiding it from me.....it's really passing me off.





cavenger said:


> ...her time away from me and the family. See. ..they have these stupid rah rah sales meetings.


Alarm bells are now ringing with me. Maybe it's not 'like' an EA, but an actual EA? Or more?


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## Caribbean Man

cavenger said:


> She won't stop being involved in a multi level marketing company ...several of them in fact.


Maybe you can show her a suitable more lucrative alternative.

People involved in those MLM schemes are generally risk takers who dream of being financially independent without having to work for anybody.
In her mind, she wants to be financially independent and sees this as the appropriate vehicle.

Both of you could come together, find out what are her financial goals , and perhaps, work with her to achieve them.


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## SolidSnake

I hear you OP. I think getting involved in MLM shows poor discretion. MLM, unlike traditional marketing, is interpersonally exploitive. 

When I was in college someone dragged us to some kind of meeting for an MLM pyramid scam called Primerica. I wanted nothing to do with it, but my roommate felt pressured to join by the person, until another mutual friend was like "Primerica! That's a pyramid scam," right in front of the person who was pushing it. He said, "Nice going, you ruined it for me, and you ruined it for Justine!" Lol. 

My second experience with MLM was this thing called Global Information Network. Its like a pyramid scam for conspiracy theorists (using that term in a non pejorative way). This woman lent me a series of CDs, which were interesting nonetheless, but then she tried to pressure me join. I flipped out and said, if this information is so important for people to know, then why re-create a whole hierarchy of secrecy? Why not just give it away for free? You can only learn so much if you pay such such an amount? BS. She'd been taken in by it....

I would say, try to pursue the Policy of Joint agreement on it with your wife. Google POJ if you don't know it. Come to some kind of understanding like what was suggested above, on how much she can spend before she must quit, etc. Tell her its destroying your relationship.


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## cavenger

This mlm stuff has a strong chance to end our marriage. I have tried to lay down the law.....it just doesnt work. She is once again mad at me for speaking my mind to some of the mlm people (which are her distant friends). I dont know what else to do. Its either trust her or lose her. At this point I have just decided to trust her. I'm tired of fighting about this. If we lose everything, so be it. If I lose her, so be it. I'm just a man and a very flawed one at that. I can be alone again.


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## MEM2020

So you are ok with having your credit destroyed and then being dumped?


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: How to get past a big issue you both can't agree on?*



MEM11363 said:


> So you are ok with having your credit destroyed and then being dumped?


I'm not Ok with it.


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## cavenger

My wife blocked her own husband on Facebook! Wtf!


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## Carlchurchill

cavenger said:


> My wife blocked her own husband on Facebook! Wtf!


LOL sorry for finding humor in your moment of peral but damn you 2 are dysfunctional!!! Wonder what you 2 are gonna be saying around the supper table tonight haha

She is most likely meeting some real smooth talking snake oil salesman at those rah rah meetings...i reckon she could be addicted to the attention and ego uplifting BS they are spewing over her.


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## RDL

I would suggest that a change of attitude towards an genuine effort to understand her position might be helpful.

Please keep in mind that multi level marketing is a legitimate and powerful business model in use by a wide range of companies. 

There are misconceptions that associate multi level marketing with pyramid scams and I suggest you learn to rise above them. Please take time to understand the mathematical model and practices behind a MLM versus a pyramid scam. One fact that is often not understood is that the MLM business model provides for a surprisingly fair division of income between the company making the product and the chain of people selling the product and it's crucially different to the income distribution of a pyramid scam.

For example at it's base level a pyramid scam relies on entry fees or other payments by it's members to get money to people at the top of the chain. A legitimate MLM relies on the selling of products and services to people outside the network for a large part of it's revenue. 

With taking the time to understand your wife's position you stand a good chance that her attitude will soften and she would be more open to dialog. Thus you can make your point diplomatically and in an informed fashion as to her new activities. 

Please investigate if she is involved in a legitimate MLM business or if she is being influenced into a pyramid scam. They are two different concepts. 

Come back with feedback once you have the information needed.


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## JustHer

OP, have you tried sitting down with her, validating what it is she is trying to do, and what she is trying to get out of this? 

Have you tried setting up a business plan? If you were going to start a business, which is what she believes she is doing, then she would expect you to sit down with her and go over the short and long term goals, including how much cash, time, etc. was to be invested, again, short and long term. What the rate of return should be in all areas, etc. Agree on a set amount she can have, in all areas to get this started and still have enough energy and time for her family. Set up her own bank account with the agreed initial investment, no other finances are to be used, period. 

Then agree that if this business cannot get off the ground within the guides of the business plan, that is it, there will be no more investing in this type of business. You will, however be willing to support her in other traditional career goals including getting an education so she will be marketable in a career field she is interested in.

Then, watch your finances. Be prepared to block her form them. My husband and I have always been like you two, sharing everything, but there is no way I would let him financially destroy us. I have seen individuals get into this type of marketing and it is like gambling, they just cannot stop. Your mariage may get a bit fiery if it comes this and she sees her funds dry up, but it may wake her up also. If you make up a business plan and she sees how much money she really does loose, this may help. 

She has it in her head she is going to get rich but when she actually starts tracking her investment, hopesully she will see in black and white, it is the other way around.

Good luck


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## MEM2020

*The core issue*

I am not a lobbyist for the MLM association of America. 

So I can't comment on the research recommended below. 

I would however suggest:
- Estimate how much money your wife has made/lost doing this over the past few years and how many total hours she has worked. Include expenses. This will give a net 'profit or loss'. Divide that by the hours expended. This will produce an hourly wage which might be: $12.00 per hour, or -$12.00/hour once you factor in costs such as unsold inventory. 
- Stop using terms like cult, as they are emotionally loaded and will prevent a rational discussion. 
- Stop complaining about the 'time away from family' as that comes across as weak and needy and will distract from the core issue. 
- Insist on total financial transparency. If she is hiding, lying, you and the kids may end up bankrupt. 
- Agree on a hard date at which point you will jointly evaluate progress and a maximum amount of additional 'loss' you are agreeable to. 

This last bit is critical: tell her that if this is her dream, she can either make it real by quickly showing a 'true' profit that is reasonable given her time and effort or, she can get a normal job, and save up enough to fund another try at it in a year or two. 

Avoid a general discussion of MLM. Instead have a focused discussion of results to date and realistic, near term future forecasts. 

And insist on inventory from prior failed MLM efforts being valued at what it can be sold for in the next 90 days. 

Letting her bankrupt the family your KIDS depend on, is not ok. 




FreedomCorp said:


> I would suggest that a change of attitude towards an genuine effort to understand her position might be helpful.
> 
> Please keep in mind that multi level marketing is a legitimate and powerful business model in use by a wide range of companies.
> 
> There are misconceptions that associate multi level marketing with pyramid scams and I suggest you learn to rise above them. Please take time to understand the mathematical model and practices behind a MLM versus a pyramid scam. One fact that is often not understood is that the MLM business model provides for a surprisingly fair division of income between the company making the product and the chain of people selling the product and it's crucially different to the income distribution of a pyramid scam.
> 
> For example at it's base level a pyramid scam relies on entry fees or other payments by it's members to get money to people at the top of the chain. A legitimate MLM relies on the selling of products and services to people outside the network for a large part of it's revenue.
> 
> With taking the time to understand your wife's position you stand a good chance that her attitude will soften and she would be more open to dialog. Thus you can make your point diplomatically and in an informed fashion as to her new activities.
> 
> Please investigate if she is involved in a legitimate MLM business or if she is being influenced into a pyramid scam. They are two different concepts.
> 
> Come back with feedback once you have the information needed.








FreedomCorp said:


> I would suggest that a change of attitude towards an genuine effort to understand her position might be helpful.
> 
> Please keep in mind that multi level marketing is a legitimate and powerful business model in use by a wide range of companies.
> 
> There are misconceptions that associate multi level marketing with pyramid scams and I suggest you learn to rise above them. Please take time to understand the mathematical model and practices behind a MLM versus a pyramid scam. One fact that is often not understood is that the MLM business model provides for a surprisingly fair division of income between the company making the product and the chain of people selling the product and it's crucially different to the income distribution of a pyramid scam.
> 
> For example at it's base level a pyramid scam relies on entry fees or other payments by it's members to get money to people at the top of the chain. A legitimate MLM relies on the selling of products and services to people outside the network for a large part of it's revenue.
> 
> With taking the time to understand your wife's position you stand a good chance that her attitude will soften and she would be more open to dialog. Thus you can make your point diplomatically and in an informed fashion as to her new activities.
> 
> Please investigate if she is involved in a legitimate MLM business or if she is being influenced into a pyramid scam. They are two different concepts.
> 
> Come back with feedback once you have the information needed.


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