# Help! Absolutely Terrified.



## Ggirl83 (Apr 9, 2014)

Hello all. I am new to the forum. I am a 30 year old physician, and I have been dating my fiance for a year and a half. We got engaged 5 months ago and have recently moved in together. Our wedding is booked for next May. I am half Jewish, but grew up in a nonpracticing, atheist household. My fiance is fully Jewish, and grew up in a house that celebrated major holidays and rituals. They are very liberal, and essentially only attend temple a few times a year. I have been very open with my fiance about this issue. I have explained that while I feel certain aspects of Jewish culture and values were infused into my life, and while I certainly identify with my dad's side, I am not a religious person by any stretch and would never convert. It simply isn't important to me. He has explained that he himself is "sort of" and atheist, and only abides by the traditions to please his mother and embrace his cultural identity. He very much values being included as part of a group, and in all honestly, Judaism is one club he can never be rejected from as far as he knows. So even though he is far from devout (he doesn't even fast on Yom Kippur, and he books out early from services), he feels like he carries a special card. I very much treasure my identity as a strong, independent woman. I have worked very hard to get here, and I am proud of what I have accomplished at a realtively young age. I graduated from a top tier univeristy phi beta kappa. I was in the top quartile of my medical school class and matched into a competetive medicine residency. I was selected to stay on as a chief resident and I will be starting in private practice with a very well established group in a few months. Despite all this, sometimes I think he views me as incomplete because I don't have a "religion" or family traditions. His father is very liberal and progressive, but his mother is very traditional and old fashioned. I know he has said that he doesn't want a housewife who remains chained to the stove, I think there is a component of him that really treasures old fashioned family roles. I also will be earning around 4 times what he makes, so I know that is a source of insecurity for him.

We are usually able to keep the harmony over this issue. I agree to attend services with him a couple times a year to keep him happy, and I am respectful of his family's beliefs. I have given up the Christmas Tree and my little pagan rituals to keep him calm. I have agreed to a Jewish wedding, and I even agreed to let him raise the future children as reform Jews (of course, he will have to do all the teaching...I never had a Bat Mizvah).

However, I am freaking out now because I have been invited to passover at his family's house next week. I have never been to a Seder, and he told me he thought that was "weird." I have made it clear my family wasn't religious, but I think he built a little fantasy around this idea that I was more Jewish than I am. Anyway, I also believe he hasn't been fully upfront with his mom about how removed I am from the religion. I have spent a fair amount of time with her, but our conversations were usually quite superficial and light hearted (she does not open up easily). His parents are divorced, and his father and new stepmom are essentially nonpracticing at this point, and very laid back about the whole thing. But his mother and stepfather are very much into it. The main thing that makes me so uncomfortable is that his mom has incorporated some traditions that are very strange. At their Seder, they go around the table and make people answer questions on the back of printed cards placed under the plates. These are questions sold in a box on amazon, meant for 6-7 year olds to get them involved. They are things like "talk about an example of a modern day plague" and "how would you feel if someone broke a promise to you," etc. Very, very superficial and childish. My fiance says his mom does this to lighten up the atmosphere of his stepdad's otherwise very conservative seder, and keep people engaged. However, the whole thing makes me very nervous. These questions are so silly and infantile, and I would never feel comfortable "opening up" about my personal life in front of a bunch of people, many of whom I barely know. Basically, the answers all come out as canned, and cliche. She also makes everyone at the table wear finger puppets representing the 10 plagues, and they have to call out which ones they have been assigned. I don't mean to sound snooty, but I am a fairly accomplished physician and a full grown adult, I don't think it is appropriate that I be forced to engage in such infantile rituals around people I don't know. My fiance became very angry at me when I raised my concerns about this component, and he acused me of been ungrateful. I explained that it has nothing to do with gratitude. Nobody I have talked to who has ever attended her Seder appreciate the card game...and many have said they felt put on the spot and quite frankly, stupid. I asked if it would be ok if I politely passed on answering, and he got even more enraged. He accused me of not respecting his family's traditions, and while he admitted it was kind of dumb, he couldn't understand why I can't just go with the flow. I think the big issue here though has to do with me not sacrificing who I am completely just to please him and his family. I am willing to bend and compromise, but I am not willing to make a fool out of myself in front of an audience. I don't want to humilate myself in front of his family, and I want him to be proud of me. But I don't know if I can do this. Any input?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You two are mismatched and he is more interested in pleasing his mommy than you. Not to mention he sounds like a hypocrite. What sacrifices is he making? Stop the engagement and get your own place. Hopefully, he'll grow up.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Doesn't sound like he is the one for you. Two options: break it off or slow it down (and tell him exactly how you feel and what you want to do/be, etc.).
Better to end it now than end up divorced and/or unhappy later!


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

It's his mother's house, so it's his mother's rules. If you don't want to participate, don't go. If you go, yet refuse to participate because you're a big girl who can't be told what to do, that's not mature. It's childish.

Also, you need to have much more in depth conversations with him on raising children. Passing the buck, so that he can raise them in a faith, while you refuse to participate, is not a good idea. Either find a parenting plan you can each participate in, agree not to have children, or break up.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm going to take the religious aspect out of it, just for giggles. I say either go and participate, or don't go. It's her house, her traditions, her rules. Think of it as a silly game if you like. 


My STBXMIL was always doing what I thought was boring/painful traditions at family gatherings. But it didn't cost me anything other than my time, it made them happy, so why not? If YOU want to host a meal, you can set the rules. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I feel a bit differently than Blondi (as an agnostic/confused atheist). 

If he were a latino and at every birthday there was a pinata and everyone took a turn, would you do it? Take the 'religion' aspect out. His family has a tradition. You think it's childish (infantile is a bit dramatic, is it not?) and your fiancee agrees that it's awkward BUT - when in Rome...

I bow my head when people pray. One could argue that it's childish to believe you can talk in your head to an invisible all-powerful entity in the sky. I do it out of RESPECT. Respect for other people's beliefs because I do not wish to offend anyone by insinuating they are silly or less sophisticated than I.

Surely you can do the same. In fact, why can't you take the questions to a higher level? Couldn't you take a question like the plague, use your fine, educated brain and compare to a current, socially relevant issue like, for instance, rampant corruption?

Do you respect them? As human beings, as his parents? A little class and willingness to indulge them in this little tradition of theirs takes nothing from you and will forever ingratiate them to you. Instead of judging their traditions (there are no rights and wrongs as long as they aren't harmful), why don't you embrace them as being quirky and silly but harmless. I don't mean be patronizing to them, but how about whimsical? 

Maybe you feel you have already conceded too much, but that is on you. This is not the time or place to draw a line in the sand. He's been a part of their lives much longer than yours. I understand he needs to be able to stand up to his parents but not over family traditions. Since you've agreed to raise your children in the Jewish faith, why not have them over to your house for a Seder once you are married and brainstorm with your husband about some new traditions that you don't object to as much.

Handle this with grace and you will have family peace and they will truly appreciate it.


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## SailBadTheSinner (Apr 7, 2014)

Not the guy for you. He's a mommy's boy and a hypocrite, two character flaws that he will carry into your marriage. And, looks like he lies to mommy too. Do you really want that? 

Consider, since you'll be making the big bucks, he'll be resentful and will most likely act out in a variety of ways--I promise you it will become a major issue. Moreover, try as you might, I don't think you'll ever accept him as an equal once the newlywed fog clears unless he's doing dangerous and socially valued work to up his sex rank. 

Dump him now and spare yourself the future agony. The Seder is your sign.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I agree with Enjoli. When in Rome...

If you're going to this family dinner with traditions, then just suck it up and participate. Otherwise, don't go.

Having said that, there are many red flags in your post that others have already pointed out. Are you sure this is the right person for you? Honestly, your statements sound more like an arranged marriage than a young in-love couple.

Obviously, we don't have any facts other than the ones you presented, but hubs-to-be should be MUCH more concerned with your needs and pleasing YOU than he is his mother.

I also think that opting out of any religious upbringing with your children (rather, you're not all on the same page) is setting the stage for much conflict down the road. You don't all have to believe in the same thing, but with his personality (as you describe it) it could become very problematic.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Don't you just have to love organized religion.It breakus up families and it has started wars for thousands of years.First if your fiance told his mother that you were not practicing your religion you would not be in this position.My wife is Jewish and she never heard of hand puppets at Seder.It seems to me you two have issues to resolve before you get married,if this problem has already caused tension between you.Then there is the money issue.Do you think he can get over that?What kind of work does he do if you are going to make 4 times as much?Best of luck


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My Jewish background is exactly like yours. It's funny, I'm not that religious but I have plenty of Jew in me for anti-semites to hate.
Anyway, I think it's rich that his parents are divorced and his mom is worried about traditional values. Having said that, what's the big deal about going to her house for a holiday? Your much bigger issue is his insecurity over your income inequality and I wouldn't be surprised if he pushes for a more old fashioned role at home to compensate. Don't underestimate how many problems that will cause; sit him down right now and talk about expectations in your home.

This happened to a friend of mine; she is am American black woman and married a Latino; he was nice enough but had very traditional views as to who should keep the home. Except that she worked longer hours and made twice as much money; he'd get home two hours before her, prop his feet up and wait for her, at which time he'd demand to know what she was making for dinner. It's one of the things that led to their divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

101Abn said:


> Don't you just have to love organized religion.It breakus up families and it has started wars for thousands of years.


Well, looking at Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, and others, the atheists have racked up quite a body count themselves.

But the OP's problem isn't with her future MIL's religion. It seems to be with her rules. I think she can either respect her house as the place where she is in charge, or she can refuse to go to her house and be subjected to her rules.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

You haven't been yet. I think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill. It might be fun. Traditions like that are especially fun when you have children.  I'm a Christian and I've been to traditional seders. I had fun

I'd be more concerned about the intellectual/financial gap between you and your fiance. If you were my daughter, I'd advise you to move out and postpone the wedding. Work for a year in your new job and see how you feel about him then.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Blonde said:


> You haven't been yet. I think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill. It might be fun. Traditions like that are especially fun when you have children.  I'm a Christian and I've been to traditional seders. I had fun
> 
> I'd be more concerned about the intellectual/financial gap between you and your fiance. If you were my daughter, I'd advise you to move out and postpone the wedding. Work for a year in your new job and see how you feel about him then.


Where does she say he's not equal to her in intelligence/earning potential?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Saw it now. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Ggirl83,

I have lived through many an awkward situation like this, usually with much worry beforehand and some angst afterwards.

My advice is: Live your truth. Expect people to be grown-ups. Choose what to do about it afterwards, if it turns out some are not. If they turn out to not be grown-ups, then it is not your fault.

Your beliefs are nothing to be ashamed of, just as your future MIL's beliefs are nothing to be ashamed of. Religious beliefs are a very personal thing. Regardless of what one believes, I find it regrettable if anyone feels pressure to "conform" to the beliefs or religious practices of anyone else. I think it is shameful when that pressure is actually being applied.

It would be a mistake to assume your future MIL or others there would prefer you to stay away from their dinner just because you would not feel comfortable "playing along". It would also be a mistake to assume anyone (except your husband to be) would prefer you to "play along". Some people in this world care to have friends and family as guests whenever they can, and on whatever terms the guests are comfortable with. Some people in this world prefer others to live within each's own personal limits, and would not for a second want their differing beliefs be felt as an request or demand to cross one's own limits.

My mother, for instance, would be very hurt and disappointed if my wife, my kids, and "gracefully bowed out" of Easter dinner simply because we wouldn't feel comfortable praying, or if we felt uncomfortable participating in some other ritual (if they had one).

A couple of decades ago, I recall hearing disrespect in my future MIL's voice regarding my "coming out of the closet" as an atheist to my family (who are all very much devout Christians). She thought I should just be able to "go along" and pretend for my mother, who was very much hurt when I told her the truth. But, that disrespect (if it was there) was wrong. I had lived that lie (in the closet) for years, and it was very painful. And the costs are not just to the one in the closet. Relationships suffer. 

As for my mother, I asked her recently and she very clearly was glad I had told her the truth. Some mothers prefer to know their sons, however different from them they may be.

I share others' worry that this is revealing something about your husband to be. Please don't sweep it under the rug. I won't go as far as saying this means you are incompatible; that remains to be seen. These things are difficult for people of all ages, in my experience. Just because he, perhaps, has not felt comfortable telling his mother the truth does not mean he is sadly weak. My guess is he has simply put it off, as sons want to be accepted by their mothers, and never want to hurt them. What might be more telling is, now, given a solid reason to show who he really is -- to you and to her -- what will he do? I hope he gives "his own truth" a fair hearing, as that is the only thing that works in the longterm and in the real world.


ETA: The alternative to making assumptions, is to ask. If you have been invited, and you are uncomfortable with what might be expected of you if you were to attend, then you can let the hostess know your concerns. Better to find it out ahead of time, one way or the other, if it is truly bothering you. The only chance you have of finding out what your future MIL thinks is by talking directly to her, IMHO.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

This is a potential glimpse into what your future life with him will be like. Can you handle that? 

I personally don't agree with adult children tiptoeing around their parents' religious beliefs but many children do that. Will his mother so strongly disapprove of you if you don't play along that she tries to sabotage your relationship? He seems to care greatly what she thinks. 

Religion can split apart relationships as quickly as anything else. Think carefully.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I completely gree with everyone else that you have a lot of things you need to think about before marrying this man, because there are red flags and major unresolved issues here. 

I just wanted to add that I think the finger puppets are hilarious. Or could be, if you've all had some seder wine? Is there such a thing as seder wine? If so, drink lots of it and have fun with the finger puppets. :rofl:

I say that in sympathy, as I've been in your shoes, with the son of a minister. I'll never forget that first Thanksgiving dinner and the grains of corn...


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## Ggirl83 (Apr 9, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> Ggirl83,
> 
> I have lived through many an awkward situation like this, usually with much worry beforehand and some angst afterwards.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your wise input. I agree with much of what you said. I think the problem I am running into here is my fiance's expectations. He doesn't really seem to place much importance on my own identity or sense of self. For instance, he got very steamed when I suggested I might not be comfortable signing a Ketubah given it's archaic and very patriarchal tone. He said we were signing one, "end of story." I immedietaly agreed when I found out you can get liberal ones that are much more equal with regard to gender roles, but he still held my hesitance against me later, calling me a "fem-nazi." He definitely is conflicted about what he thinks gender roles should be. He says he believes in equality, but he grew up in a home where the woman doted on her husband and never spoke up about her opinions. Part of the reason I am so intimidated by my future MIL is she never expresses any opinions or personal information. Ironically, she is placing everyone else on the spot to read cards and make personal reflections at the dinner table, in front of strangers. So I don't think my fiance is fully comfortable with a strong, empowered, and somewhat opionionated woman, even though he claims that is exactly who he wants to be with. The issue is, he wants me to smile and nod and play along, even if I am profoundly uncomfortable. I usually would try to pick my battles more, and yes, I could try to just do this for him and suck it up. But the red flag for me is that he cares more about some silly traditions and making his mother happy, than my comfort and anxiety.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I'll never forget that first Thanksgiving dinner and the grains of corn."

I'll probably regret asking this, but just what did you do with the grains of corn?

By the way; at my first Thanksgiving with the in-laws, MIL asked my husband's brother to say the prayer. He looked around the table and hollered "Yay, God! Amen, dig in". Yeah, he was kinda young - only 23.


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

Ggirl83 said:


> I think the problem I am running into here is my fiance's expectations. He doesn't really seem to place much importance on my own identity or sense of self.


Perhaps your fiance believes that you are a strong enough personality that attending a traditional Jewish dinner once a year won't harm you.



> For instance, he got very steamed when I suggested I might not be comfortable signing a Ketubah given it's archaic and very patriarchal tone. He said we were signing one, "end of story." I immedietaly agreed when I found out you can get liberal ones that are much more equal with regard to gender roles, but he still held my hesitance against me later, calling me a "fem-nazi."


This is a big red flag. It seems your husband aspires to have a traditional marriage and you don't. That won't work. You must both agree on the type of marriage you will have. If you're both pulling in different directions, your marriage is doomed.



> Part of the reason I am so intimidated by my future MIL is she never expresses any opinions or personal information. Ironically, she is placing everyone else on the spot to read cards and make personal reflections at the dinner table, in front of strangers. So I don't think my fiance is fully comfortable with a strong, empowered, and somewhat opionionated woman, even though he claims that is exactly who he wants to be with.


Perhaps you should start looking at this as an opportunity. You claim to be a strong, empowered, opinionated woman. Well, those women don't shy away from opportunities to share their opinions. When your future MIL gives you a card and asks you to share an opinion, why not do it? I think your earlier example was of a modern plague. As a physician, you must surely have some knowledge on the subject.

Strong, opinionated, empowered women don't resent opportunities to engage other people. Come on. You can do this.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

BoozeLevers said:


> Perhaps your fiance believes that you are a strong enough personality that attending a traditional Jewish dinner once a year won't harm you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






It is hard for me to tell if that was a well meant pep talk, or the non-argument called the "Argument from Intimidation".



Either way, there are problems. It is up to her to resent whatever she wants, and no one here's place to imply she is not strong or empowered because of it. To imply she resents the opportunity to engage other people is quite a leap!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

^ ^ ^ 

This. What BoozeLevers said. :iagree:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ggirl83 said:


> ...but he still held my hesitance against me later,* calling me a "fem-nazi." **He definitely is conflicted about what he thinks gender roles should be.* He says he believes in equality, but he grew up in a home where *the woman doted on her husband and never spoke up about her opinions....*


This is the part that makes me unsettled. You definitely need to sort out gender roles and your definition of "marriage." It only gets harder from here.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Ggirl83 said:


> calling me a "fem-nazi."


Please don't marry someone who disrespects you like that! You will regret it, I promise you. Never mind the religious aspects, your bf cannot handle a strong, smart, capable woman. He will constantly be tearing you down because your accomplishments and success are so threatening to him.

There are men out there who will respect you. Hold out for one of them.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> "I'll never forget that first Thanksgiving dinner and the grains of corn."
> 
> I'll probably regret asking this, but just what did you do with the grains of corn?
> 
> By the way; at my first Thanksgiving with the in-laws, MIL asked my husband's brother to say the prayer. He looked around the table and hollered "Yay, God! Amen, dig in". Yeah, he was kinda young - only 23.


Oh, it wasn't anything terrible, nor absurdly funny like finger puppets. But as a 22 year old, who had grown up in a completely non-religious household, at my first dinner with minister dad AND minister grandpa, and bf's rather large religious family, I was completely out of my element. 

We were each given grains of corn, and then were supposed to go around the table telling how each of us had been touched by God that year. After our turn, we'd toss a grain of corn into a basket, until none of us had any grains left. Being an atheist and 22, I didn't even begin to know how to address that politely. Bf hadn't given me the heads up about this ritual, so I was the (godless) deer frozen in headlights when presented with the corn. And then listening to everyone else's stories of how God had touched them...well, I wished I had some wine, or finger puppets!


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> It is hard for me to tell if that was a well meant pep talk, or the non-argument called the "Argument from Intimidation".
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, there are problems. It is up to her to resent whatever she wants, and no one here's place to imply she is not strong or empowered because of it. To imply she resents the opportunity to engage other people is quite a leap!


Of course it was a pep talk. You certainly don't think we should encourage her to hide herself away, do you?

Yes, she can resent whatever she wants. And yes, I'm assuming that she is just as strong and empowered as she purports to be. I'm simply pointing out that this is a perfect opportunity for her to be a strong and empowered person. She started the thread because she resents her fiance and his family wanting her to participate in a holiday meal where she will be asked to share her thoughts and opinions. I'm not assuming that. She explicitly stated such. I'm just trying to get her to change her point of view from seeing it as a burden to seeing it as an opportunity.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Let him find a nice orthodox Jewish woman who will kiss his a$$. You're a great catch, so find somebody that appreciates what you bring to the table.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

BoozeLevers said:


> Of course it was a pep talk. You certainly don't think we should encourage her to hide herself away, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Thanks for clearing that up for me.



I did not pick up on any resentment from the OP over that. To me, it does not at all seem like an invitation to "share her thoughts and opinions". Rather, it seems likely she will be put on the spot to declare her differences or hide them. It seems like her husband to be is expecting her to swallow her thoughts and opinions, not just at the Seder but even at home.



It seems she feels intimidation from future husband. Others here have suggested she owes it to the future MIL to either do whatever the others would be doing or stay home. If I have misread, hopefully OP will clarify.



In my experience of having been in similar shoes -- or at least fearing I was in them -- resentment of friends and family was never present. What I feared was disappointing and hurting those I cared about, and my beliefs surely have.







ETA: Sorry I didn't answer your question. No. I don't think the answer is to hide herself away. That is no way to live, and it makes these situations more likely to occur and seem bigger than they really are.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Sorry, but this reminds me of a family when I was a young kid who were full blooded Irish. They also loved Spaghetti.

OK an Irish family eating a pot of sketties no biggie right? Just as an Italian family could sit down and eat corned beef and cabbage on St Patty's day except for the Irish grandmother who would make her twice a year visit for a week at a time and the woman hated Italians with the passion and when she visited, they were not allowed to eat spaghetti. Now the way I look at it is they did it out of respect but someone should have spoken up and said to Grandma they were eating skettis tonight and if you don't want any, then grab the bread, jelly and peanut butter and have at it.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

I think he was bs'd you from the beginning.I think he is more religious than he claims.How can you be "sorta"an atheist.You are or you aren't.As for telling you "end of story"when you didn't want to sign the Ketubah,an atheist would not care.If he is not that into his religion suggest that you get married by a justice of the peace or the mayor.See what he says.My wife is Jewish and she read the comment he said "being in a group he can't be thrown out of"tells her he is more religious then he let's on. best of luck.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Finger puppets of the ten plagues?
Seriously?

As an atheist I've become pretty good at humoring religious peoples beliefs and traditions when need be but man I'd be hard pressed sitting around a dinner table of adults wearing plague finger puppets.

I just know the giggles would roll right into hearty laughter and the **** would hit the fan.

I couldn't attend.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

BoozeLevers said:


> I'm simply pointing out that this is a perfect opportunity for her to be a strong and empowered person. She started the thread because she resents her fiance and his family wanting her to participate in a holiday meal where she will be asked to share her thoughts and opinions. I'm not assuming that. She explicitly stated such. I'm just trying to get her to change her point of view from seeing it as a burden to seeing it as an opportunity.


From the theme of her OP I don't think her fiance' really wants her to share her thoughts and opinions but rather expects her to swallow her own thoughts and opinions like crow and nod obediently to his mothers insanity.

Quite contrary to being strong and empowered.

If she goes I do however recommend she voices her thoughts and opinions politely and emphatically and wait for the explosion.

Full speed and damn the torpedoes!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I don't think you necessarily need to move out - yet, but you and your fiance do need some premarital counselling I think, to work these things out BEFORE you even think about going through with this wedding.

I think you're being a bit precious about the finger puppets, and the "patriarchal signing" thing...c'mon...women used to vow to "love, honour and obey" their husbands - how many women do you know "obey" their husbands? It's tradition, nothing more.

You have far bigger issues than this going on...religion IS going to cause huge divisions between you and your husband, as is your earning capacity. You can't be serious when you say you won't participate in your childrens jewish upbringing?? Really? You won't ever go to their events?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Ggirl83 said:


> Part of the reason I am so intimidated by my future MIL is she never expresses any opinions or personal information. Ironically, she is placing everyone else on the spot to read cards and make personal reflections at the dinner table, in front of strangers.




IIRC, earlier you suggested her husband had more conservative beliefs than she...and that perhaps part of her motivation for the cards or puppets is to lighten things up. (Did I remember that correctly?)



What are the chances she knows very clearly what it is like to be married to someone that want her to keep her thoughts and beliefs and opinions to herself?



What are the chances she would actually be sympathetic to the awkward situation your fiance has put you in...and even reveal that to you if you have a heart to heart talk?



I am not convinced that is the case, but it seems possible enough.


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> I did not pick up on any resentment from the OP over that. To me, it does not at all seem like an invitation to "share her thoughts and opinions". Rather, it seems likely she will be put on the spot to declare her differences or hide them. It seems like her husband to be is expecting her to swallow her thoughts and opinions, not just at the Seder but even at home.


In the OP, she stated that the activities are for children. She gave two examples. The first was to give an example of a modern-day plague. The second was to state how you would feel if someone broke a promise to you. The activities don't seem deeply religious.

If her fiance's family want her to sacrifice a fatted calf, or declare her devotion to God, then I would absolutely advise her to either decline or excuse herself. However, if she's merely being expected to bow her head while a prayer is said, answer a simple question that may be only tangentially religious, and stick a puppet on her finger, then I think the respectful thing to do is to participate. If the prospect of those basic activities is so upsetting to her, then she needs to immediately bail on the entire relationship because she will never be able to interact with her fiance's family.



> In my experience of having been in similar shoes -- or at least fearing I was in them -- resentment of friends and family was never present. What I feared was disappointing and hurting those I cared about, and my beliefs surely have.


Given your posts on the matter, I thought I may have misused the word "resent." So, I looked it up. Merriam Webster defines it as "to be angry or upset about (someone or something that you think is unfair," or "to feel or express annoyance or ill will at." And I think that perfectly describes the OP's stated feelings. She has stated she is terrified, nervous, uncomfortable, and freaking out. I think that matches well with the classical definition of resentment.

However, our linguistic disagreement has nothing at all to do with the OP's dilemma. I think she can easily expand her comfort zone to include respecting others' beliefs. Sitting quietly while others pray, or answering basic questions on the history of the holiday, or modern parallels to the ancient stories shouldn't impact how she views herself. If it does, then I think that's her issue to work on and this would be a perfect opportunity to do it. As you said, these kinds of situations arise from time to time and she needs to be able to handle them appropriately.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

My best friend is really into martial arts and leans very hard to the teachings of Buddhism and he was baptized Catholic.

He's about to marry a woman who is IMO an over the top Christian who doesn't believe in evolution and swears that the earth is only a few thousand years old and the dinosaurs didn't walk millions of years ago but kind of leans towards IMO the Flintstones.

The solution is that they each respect each others beliefs and never point a finger and say "your wrong and I'm right". It's called respecting each others views and if it is talked about, it's done in a way where they can express a point of view and not step on any ones toes. It's not really hard to do if you love and respect each other.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

101Abn said:


> I think he was bs'd you from the beginning. I think he is more religious than he claims. How can you be "sorta"an atheist. You are or you aren't. As for telling you "end of story"when you didn't want to sign the Ketubah,an atheist would not care.


:iagree:



101Abn said:


> If he is not that into his religion suggest that you get married by a justice of the peace or the mayor. See what he says.


I have a feeling, Abn, he'd either call her a fem-Nazi again (real mature, there, calling her nasty names — should be an automatic deal-breaker, IMNSHO), or he'd be horrified. And if he IS horrified, that would give her the answer.


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