# Transparency and secrets...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Curious now really, tell me...

How important is transparency in a marriage or long term relationship? Truly? Should couples be allowed secrets? If so, where's the line? If the secrets are in relation to the past, is keeping the past a secret justified as long as it's not affecting the present?

Is it immoral to keep skeletons in the closet from a long term spouse? Is the idea of transparency relative to different circumstances? Thoughts?


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

If there is a possibility that the skeleton may one day fall out of the closet then it is probably best to come clean. Otherwise I think it is perfectly fine for things in the past to stay there, in terms of not volunteering the information. If the spouse asks a direct question I think it should be answered.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> If the spouse asks a direct question I think it should be answered.


Would you consider answers with half-truths and omissions acceptable? Especially if it's a possible dealbreaker?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

What sort of skeletons are we talking about here? Does my husband need to know every single sex act I've ever performed? No. 
Does he need to know I was a bit wild? Yes.

I think transparency is important when it comes to most things but I think that's a judgment call the individual will have to make. 

Secrets about the past aren't really secrets unless you lie if asked about it.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Would you consider answers with half-truths and omissions acceptable? Especially if it's a possible dealbreaker?


Well I suppose it depends what side of the fence I am on! 

If I was the one doing the asking I would probably take the view that half truths and omissions were not acceptable or I would not have asked the question.

If I was the one doing the telling I may well consider that the long term happiness of the marriage may justify a little laxity with the detail.

It's hard to give an absolute reply to your question. My own personal view is that I do not generally ask questions which may have unpalatable answers unless the issue is a dealbreaker.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, for me in particular it's criminal history. I've kept this from everyone in RL except STBX and very few trusted friends - and even those were folk who have 'been there' as well. I can very effectively keep it a skeleton yes, and it will never fall out as long as I maintain my distance from court and if my business continues to turnover profits.

But if I was to go to court again over something like assault, or if I somehow lose my business and have to find a job, then it would be a little harder. The thing is, with STBX I never had to worry about hiding crap because she already knew everything and didn't give two fks.

As I look to my future without STBX nowadays though, I wonder about this... but meh
Ne ways, just thinking outloud folks, nevermind me.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Difficult.

Assuming you are not likely to go out and assault someone it looks like the only danger point is if your business suffers and you need to find a job.

Not sure where you live but over here the slate is wiped clean after a certain number of years and employers can't check criminal history unless it is to do with certain exempted categories like child care or police work.

If you were to get to a point where the slate is wiped clean then keeping quiet is probably OK but otherwise I am not so sure.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Well,I believe even small secrets held over time can
do damage.If the other spouse finds out and plays
dumb it plays mind games on you.

What else are they hiding from me.Even family information
that everyone knows except you.My wife makes plans
and never tells me until just before.I personally feel
like a fool when i'm left in the dark.I'm the last to find
out.

If I where you do what will make you feel happy and at
ease.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I do try to stay out of trouble, and I have since 5 yrs ago for the most part. In terms of employment I know my way around the system but having to deal with a 2nd future ex wife during the jobseeking stages or if unexpectedly laid off or turned down after a police check may prove difficult to explain especially if she's one to pry. 

There also remains other skeletons such as no high school education which isn't something I'm proud of. I studied on my own accord but have no official documentation so sh-t like that can give the wrong impression of who I am.

Meh I dunno


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MissFroggie said:


> Be careful, when it comes to criminal history if she is asking it may well be that she already knows and needs to know you are a changed man and honest. When I ask a direct question about something it is either very important to me or I already know the 'secret' and need to know I can trust my partner to tell the truth. Something I considered a deal-breaker could also change from that if the truth is told and the situation discussed.


This is tough, like what if I simply can't trust her to handle the truth. Would I really be at fault if I lied, or omitted/gave half-truths etc etc.



> I had a strict policy of not hiring anyone with a criminal record, until I interviewed one girl who told me when I run her CRB there would be something come up. She explained what had happened and why, I then verified this was correct and I gave her the job. If she hadn't been open and honest I'd have run the CRB and had her blacklisted with every other company I work with too. Before that I would have considered a criminal record a (business) deal-breaker, now I don't. Honesty is the best policy. Trusting someone can be hard, but rebuilding trust with someone is infinitely harder.


Heh, guess you'll never hire me then lol
I never trust people to be that understanding, my resumes for the most part in my life were great works of... forgery! Heh



nevergveup said:


> Well,I believe even small secrets held over time can
> do damage.If the other spouse finds out and plays
> dumb it plays mind games on you.
> 
> ...


=/

Looks like I'm fked


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Me personally I'd prefer you be upfront about your past criminal history and your lack of education.

Hold your head high and own it.

That would impress me given how far you've come.

Ever read biographies? 

Some of those people have some pretty dark histories but they aren't ashamed of it.

Nope. They go on to write books about how they overcame it.

Triumph.

If a woman can't see this in you she isn't worth your time.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mavash, I simply can't expect the women I meet to be as awesome as you! lol hell I only met 2 women in RL who I could be upfront with; one was my first gf (who herself was involved in crime along with me back in the day), and STBX (who was involved in the escort industry years before she met me)

Both nutcases. You are normal, but you're rare - and I've never met someone like you lol

I would be limiting my prospects even more!!! It's already limited as it is! Heck and now I'm also encouraged in my other thread to seek a financial equal which will again limit it to ridicolous levels!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm not saying you have to dump your whole life story on a prospective date. I'm just saying a criminal history and lack of education is impossible to hide forever. I've had lesser skeletons in my closet that eventually came out. The truth always seems to find a way to the surface. That's why I'm advocating being somewhat upfront when it gets serious.

They don't need the whole story just the highlights.



> What sort of skeletons are we talking about here? Does my husband need to know every single sex act I've ever performed? No.
> Does he need to know I was a bit wild? Yes.


This is good advice. She wouldn't need to know every detail but she needs to know you were a bit 'wild'. RD it's who you are. You can't run from that. I believe it will catch up with you eventually if you try to hide it.

Just my .02 of course.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye, I guess I can say it like "did stupid things when I was a kid", "school dropout", make it seem as innocent as possible. If she pries however... nah I guess we just have to hope she doesn't yes?

Cause I don't know how innocent I can make myself look if she finds the details herself.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

IMO you definitely need to disclose criminal history.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ Why? =/


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Because in some cases, a person cannot be with a person with a criminal history and they need to know this going in.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

You need to stop beating yourself up.Take it
one day at a time.There's lots of people who
are very educated,but have no drive to use
it and work hard.

Many think a great job will fall on there lap,
once they have that degree.

See yourself, for all the positive things and not
the past negative things.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You're not 'innocent' you made mistakes and you learned from it.

But you're on the right track on the language.

Own it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And have a potentially great relationship ruined over crap done in my past... though true, it's not good to hide who you are. Hell I find it ironic I posted stuff recently about "being true to yourself" yet ironically I'm questioning whether such honesty is even wise in this predicament.

Meh, but who cares about love anyways eh, guess I got this up my sleeve if I want to scare off my current date this week.

Bah FK it, as Mavash said, it's who I am. If future prospects want to judge that, then meh, whatever, just not compatible anyway, even if its due to one's past and not the present. Sad reality. But fk it.

Thanks guys, sometimes I need a kick in the ass.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Well, you certainly don't need to spill your guts on the first date.

Lack of education is something that can probably safely come out fairly early on if a relationship looks like it might be going somewhere. Clearly after you have seen each other enough that she can see for herself that you are not some thick idiot with no aspiration.

The criminal stuff is probably important to reveal if things progress from there. However, again there is no need to shove it down her throat. High school dropout, wayward youth etc etc are things that you can drop into conversation and see how many questions she feels like asking. You could even mention issues with the law and see if she asks for more specifics. If you drop a big enough crumb trail and she is not inclined to follow it then that is up to her, imo. But the crumb trail definitely needs to be there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Mavash

Well, for me as you can guess it's tougher than that. Whether it's work or in relationships, the truth ends up refusing me opportunities despite confidence that I'm fit for the job. As such, I prefer to be honest, but my experiences have taught me why not to be.

I've proven many people wrong, if only they could see me now - like how I shut MIL the hell up with my success. In terms of work; the knowledge I've acquired through experience in operating, directing and having successfully expanded my business enough to become a sole provider including personal study into business management and having applied those theories directly into my work (EDIT: All legit BTW, just in case you're wondering) ... all that, boom -> cop check/lack of education.

Zero recognition, zero opportunity, zero chance.

Now I know I messed up in my marriage, but I've provided for her, taken care of her needs to the best of my ability even though I failed in satisfying her nutcase sexual demands, made plenty of mistakes with my immaturity sure but I've learnt from it to become a better man. I have so far raised an awesome kid and not once was I ever violent to her despite what my criminal history might suggest.

But all that... BOOM... if the skeletons are out. Not even a fking chance. Honesty just doesn't pay sometimes, in other times it does, but in my eyes the world is very... very grey. But I dunno.

@Climbing



> Well, you certainly don't need to spill your guts on the first date.
> 
> Lack of education is something that can probably safely come out fairly early on if a relationship looks like it might be going somewhere. Clearly after you have seen each other enough that she can see for herself that you are not some thick idiot with no aspiration.
> 
> The criminal stuff is probably important to reveal if things progress from there. However, again there is no need to shove it down her throat. High school dropout, wayward youth etc etc are things that you can drop into conversation and see how many questions she feels like asking. You could even mention issues with the law and see if she asks for more specifics. If you drop a big enough crumb trail and she is not inclined to follow it then that is up to her, imo. But the crumb trail definitely needs to be there.


=/

*sigh*
Well, guess it's the only thing I can do really. Sh-t like this makes me miss STBX


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Curious now really, tell me...
> 
> How important is transparency in a marriage or long term relationship? Truly?
> 
> ...


I think it's best to be honest with people with the realistic _expectation_ that, once our secret is revealed, SOME people won't want anything to do with us, while others will be much more _forgiving_. Either way, I think that honesty is the best policy, and to allow others to judge for themselves. While being judged for our past is never a 'good feeling', I'd rather know UP FRONT that the person I'm interested in wouldn't be able to handle my transgressions... 

...and that (s)he would be doing us BOTH a favor by being honest with _me_ as well, in that regard.

Vega


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I do have a healthy esteem, I just don't like to lose opportunities because of past mistakes, and I have lost plenty in the past. 

Regardless, thanks for the replies. I haven't made up my mind yet in this matter, but you guys have made many good points. Not so sure if it's even worth discussing anymore though, I got a date, she's cute, she's a normal girl for once, and who knows, maybe we'll break up soon and spare me the trouble of all this nonsense.

As for honesty, I agree with you, it's much nicer to not have to hide all the time. But honesty is a luxury, I prefer the approach, but I've been made a fool by it in the past. Not to mention 10 years ago I was only caught because I decided to 'do the right thing'. For years that bugged me and plagued my conscience.

In the past I dealt with this by simply refusing any serious relationship with anyone who themselves weren't to my level - so they were all nutcases with skeletons. I thought I would branch out this time since I'm divorcing and crap and considering its been 10 years since that life but meh.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I do have a healthy esteem,* I just don't like to lose opportunities* because of past mistakes, and I have lost plenty in the past.


What I bolded reminded me of a previous ex from eons ago. He used to go to an all-boys catholic school. The school used to host dances on Friday nights, and invite the girls from the all-girls catholic school. 

He said that when he would meet a girl, he would find out what grade she was in, and then tell her that HE was a grade ahead of her. One evening he met a Junior and proceeded to tell her that he was a Senior (he was a sophomore). They ended up dancing together, and finally they started to heat up with LOTS of kissing (he was a virgin at the time). She went to the ladies room and he was getting excited at the possibility that he just MIGHT lose his virginity that very night! 

She came back and promptly _slapped_ him across the face. Apparently, the girl went to school with his _sister_, who was at the same dance. The girl met his sister on the way to the ladies room and told her all about this "great" SENIOR she had been dancing with all night. The sister laughed and spilled the beans that her brother was a sophomore. Needless to say, this p*ssed off the girl. 

The point is, that my ex lied to girls in order to "increase his chances". It never occurred to him that the girls had a RIGHT *not* to go out with him for ANY reason. 

My exh. also lied to me in order to 'get me' to marry him. Once I discovered his little secret (porn addiction) , I ended the marriage. If he was honest with me UP FRONT, I would NOT have married him, let alone continued to date him. 

The point is, that ALL of us have a right to make our own decisions about our own lives. If you disclosed your 'transgressions' to your dates, and they decided that they didn't want to continue the relationship, I wouldn't hold it against them. 

While you may be narrowing the 'pool', your honesty would also be bringing you closer to finding the _perfect_ person for you. 

Have patience, Random. Your honesty WILL eventually pay off. Big time. I have faith in that, and I hope _you do too_!

Vega


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

If you want someone who will love and appreciate you for who you are (and not what you appear to have), then you need to be true to who you are.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Honesty is always best IMO.

What happens if your new GF or wife wants to travel and you can't get a visa because of your criminal record.

My hubby has a conviction from when he was 18 for pot...he told me when we were deciding to get engaged/married. 

I think if someone is wonderful enough to marry they must surely be worthy of your honesty.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Bah FK it, as Mavash said, it's who I am.
> .


What *you* did in *your* past RandomDude isn't 'who you are'; it's what you _*DID*_. 

Vega


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> What sort of skeletons are we talking about here? Does my husband need to know every single sex act I've ever performed? No.
> Does he need to know I was a bit wild? Yes.
> 
> I think transparency is important when it comes to most things but I think that's a judgment call the individual will have to make.
> ...


I have always thought it important to share all the previous sex acts and partners. Not because the information is needed, but also I don't think there is any reason to hide that information, just fun to share it.

But when it comes to transparency and secrets I think every person has a right to have some things they can keep to themselves if they choose. Now there should need to be a lot of things, but each person can have some things.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I guess it's better for me to continue what I've always done then and stick to women who I know would understand and never judge - even if they all tend to outcasts in their own way; e.g. first gf a violent psychopath, STBX an ex-escort.

Ironic that some members of this forum recommended I find a more "normal" person HA! Anyways enough of this.


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