# In a dark place - needing help



## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

So here's the situation.

My wife and I have been married 15 years, together for 21 years. We have two sons, 6 and 2. There have been issues throughout our marriage regarding several key issues like finances and my work history, but we've always managed to overcome them. When we're good, we're great. 

This summer, we started fighting more than usual. My attitude was horrible and I was being selfish. I work from home and do a lot with the kids (both are in school or daycare though), and I do most of the house stuff (cooking, laundry, etc.) 

I also worked with my church's youth group. There were two instances this summer where I crossed the line with kids in my youth group. In one instance, I texted some inappropriate things to one teenage girl (things like "you're super cute", things like that...) We never met or had any physical contact. In truth, I had no end game in mind, I guess ultimately I was looking for a connection with someone who I thought could provide it. It was completely inappropriate and over the top wrong. Our last text was over 2 months ago and things seemed fine, but she decided to go to the staff at the church to report it last week.

The 2nd thing that happened this summer occurred on a retreat with some high school youth. One of the older kids convinced me to buy some alcohol for them on the last night of the retreat, and I did. Myself and two kids (one 16 and one 17) drank alcohol the last night of the trip. No one else (to my knowledge) drank anything and nobody got hurt or drove anywhere. (again, doesn't make it okay, just stating facts). One of the kids that was there decided to tell the staff of the church.

I've been barred from going to the church for an extended period of time, but my wife doesn't want me here when the kids are in bed. She's allowing me to see them in the morning (I show up before they wake up) and then take our youngest to school like normal. Then I'm allowed to be here at night to cook dinner, help put the kids to bed, etc. Then my wife wants me to leave. I'm currently staying with some friends who have an extra bed. I may end up at my mom's because she lives not too far away.

I'm going to start counseling soon (have first appt. scheduled and am on their cancellation list should an earlier appt. come up) and my wife and I had already agreed to couple's counseling (we've gone once before all this was revealed). We're going to our 2nd session next week.

The staff at the church is convinced more has happened but there isn't anything else left to tell (unless it's something I'm truly not aware of, like how someone interpreted something I did that wasn't intended how it was taken).

I feel very lost right now and I don't know how to act. I'm trying to be strong for my boys but I've done some terrible things. I'm trying to also have patience with my wife to work through how she feels but every time we have a good moment with the boys, it gets awkward between us after...in my heart of hearts, I don't think she wants to end it for good, but I just am finding it so hard to be in this state of limbo.

Any advice?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Dude, while what you did was DUMB, its NOTHING!!! You should have apologized, been forgiven and moved ON! You take control of this sitch TODAY!! Tell your wife you are not going ANYWHERE, SCREW HER!!!! She is not your MOMMY...FIND A NEW CHURCH....You must attend a CHurch of Christ if I had to guess...DUDE


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## Needtodecide (Sep 19, 2015)

What are the full details of the texting.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Needtodecide said:


> What are the full details of the texting.


Essentially, the two texts that crossed the line were:

"I feel like I can tell you anything, is that right?"

"If I was 15, I'd totally want to hang out because you're awesome and super cute."

There was one more text where it looks like I'm asking her if she's interested in going to a concert, but she had mentioned going to the concert with friends and I was asking her about that. The timing of the text I sent was odd and out of context, but there wasn't anything to that one.

Those two texts are bad and can very easily be taken the wrong way. Again, I didn't have an end game in mind, I was just hunting for connection I think. But I have no business trying to connect with a sophomore in high school in any way, ever.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Dude, while what you did was DUMB, its NOTHING!!! You should have apologized, been forgiven and moved ON! You take control of this sitch TODAY!! Tell your wife you are not going ANYWHERE, SCREW HER!!!! She is not your MOMMY...FIND A NEW CHURCH....You must attend a CHurch of Christ if I had to guess...DUDE


I appreciate it, but I'm trying to give my wife the space she needs to process this. I honestly think she's more upset about how this has wrecked our small church (which is Lutheran btw) than she is about the two incidents themselves. Heck, she drank as a 16 year old too. The texting was bad and way, way, way over the line.

There's just a lot of trust issues and I'm trying to give her space and time but this limbo stuff is horrible.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

And I should say that the youth said in a text back to me (not immediately) that it was wrong of me to call her cute, and I replied with an apology text and that it would never happen again. And it didn't. It wasn't until two months later that she came forward with it. It must've been very hard for her. I hate that I caused her to feel that way.


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## marriedmanhere (Aug 2, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> Dude, while what you did was DUMB, its NOTHING!!! You should have apologized, been forgiven and moved ON! You take control of this sitch TODAY!! Tell your wife you are not going ANYWHERE, SCREW HER!!!! She is not your MOMMY...FIND A NEW CHURCH....You must attend a CHurch of Christ if I had to guess...DUDE


If my children were in this youth group, I would not want him being involved with them at all. There is forgiveness and there is accountability. 

It was right of the OPs church to ask him to leave. His presence would be a huge distraction right now. There could be a time when he returns.. but not now.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Dude were you trying to hit on the teenager or just be nice and boost their confidence?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Dude were you trying to hit on the teenager or just be nice and boost their confidence?


I'd bet the farm if her response had been, "thanks, you're cute, too!" our OP would not be posting here right now, and would be sitting in jail for statutory rape. I know of two people this happened to. One was many years ago when I was a teen and another one was recent. 

OP dodged a major bullet and owes this teenage girl a huge thank you for rebuffing his advances. (But don't do that.....stay away from her). 

I hope your marriage can be repaired. My advice to you is patience, patience, patience and more patience.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'd bet the farm if her response had been, "thanks, you're cute, too!" our OP would not be posting here right now, and would be sitting in jail for statutory rape. I know of two people this happened to. One was many years ago when I was a teen and another one was recent.
> 
> OP dodged a major bullet and owes this teenage girl a huge thank you for rebuffing his advances. (But don't do that.....stay away from her).
> 
> I hope your marriage can be repaired. My advice to you is patience, patience, patience and more patience.


If so then YIKES, he did Dodge a MAJOR BULLET!!! DUDE


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Dude were you trying to hit on the teenager or just be nice and boost their confidence?


I don't know if I can say for sure because it never went anywhere. At the time, I convinced myself I was trying to be nice and boost her confidence but I clearly was flirting with her in doing what I did.

I don't have any history of that, it literally was the first time I had ever crossed that line and haven't since. I have boundary issues to work through and understand some but not all of my triggers to that sort of behavior. I feel like I am not beyond saving.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Dude were you trying to hit on the teenager or just be nice and boost their confidence?





SecondTime'Round said:


> I'd bet the farm if her response had been, "thanks, you're cute, too!" our OP would not be posting here right now, and would be sitting in jail for statutory rape. I know of two people this happened to. One was many years ago when I was a teen and another one was recent.
> 
> OP dodged a major bullet and owes this teenage girl a huge thank you for rebuffing his advances. (But don't do that.....stay away from her).
> 
> I hope your marriage can be repaired. My advice to you is patience, patience, patience and more patience.


Yeah, the detectives who talked to me basically said the same thing. Since it was ended by her and never went anywhere else from either of us, it stopped just short of being a crime. It was a loud bell for me to hear that I need help. Thank you for your advice.

And believe me, I'm never ever going to message her or any other teenager like that ever again.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

You sound like you have a lot of guilt of this sitch, thats great!!! Your system is trying to protect you from yourself. You might even consider shutting down the cell phone so you are NEVER tempted again.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

well if OP is being totally honest here (about his intentions), then i would say what he did was not that horrible.

yes he deserved to be asked out of the youth group at least for a time.

here's what's puzzling me: his indiscretions were with older teenagers. what does that have to do with his 6 and 2 year old as if he was a pedophile??
what am i missing? his wife is denying him full access to his kids? i can understand her being pee-oed, but this seems excessive and unwarranted. 
if she is really sacred for her kids safety, or is she more upset about appearances (scandal at the church) (not necessarily saying, just a question).

i do agree though, he needs to lay low and go along with this for a while. 

dude, if you're telling the truth, you are not the devil himself. you are just another dumb dude among millions of us that needs to atone.
hope it isn't forever.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> well if OP is being totally honest here (about his intentions), then i would say what he did was not that horrible.
> 
> yes he deserved to be asked out of the youth group at least for a time.
> 
> ...


No I don't believe my wife thinks I'm a pedophile (god even typing that makes me want to throw up in my mouth). She hasn't cut off access to my kids at all. I'm seeing them in the mornings and afternoon/evenings right now (and we all found out about this last Thursday). It hasn't even been a week yet.

One thing that's hard for me right now is how one of the pastors at the church is convinced that there is more to say, like it can't be possible that these are two isolated incidents, no matter how much I say they are.

I rejected a call from him today because I felt like he was going to berate me for not admitting to more but in truth, there's nothing more to admit to. Not from where I'm standing anyway.

But every time I talk to him or see a text from him, fresh waves of guilt and shame wash over me...I feel like he's trying to keep me in this place...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Boundary issues. Yep.

You need to stop trying to be the cool friend and start being the stable adult. 

But I personally wouldn't have you working with a youth group for some time. Legally you are at the misdemeanor level on the alcohol thing. The lewd conduct with a minor is pretty iffy, as it would be hard to get a conviction at this stage. Just pointing out worst case scenarios. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind wanting you out of the house when the boys are asleep. Perhaps she feels she can not watch you when she is asleep. Supervised contact only. 

I work with youth a lot. My organization has better training and tighter rules than yours. Because this kind of Dumb can wreck lives, incidentally yous is one of the lives it can wreck. 

Work with your counselors, keep their restrictions.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Boundary issues. Yep.
> 
> You need to stop trying to be the cool friend and start being the stable adult.
> 
> Work with your counselors, keep their restrictions.


Yes, I have been made more aware of this fact...and I clearly was trying to be their friend instead of their authority figure.

Thanks for the sage advice. My first counseling appt. is next Wednesday.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> Boundary issues. Yep.
> 
> You need to stop trying to be the cool friend and start being the stable adult.
> 
> ...


this is what i'm not understanding either.

is she sending you out for punishment or because she's afraid for the kids, which i'm saying makes no sense. you are their dad.
i didn't imply in any way shape or form that you were a pedophile.
in fact that's the point i'm trying to make.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

in crystal clear terms, what is she trying to accomplish by sending you way when she is not there?


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> in crystal clear terms, what is she trying to accomplish by sending you way when she is not there?


I believe she doesn't want me to share a bed with her, first and foremost. I offered to stay in our downstairs area after the kids go to bed (we have an office and a couch there, she wouldn't see me after the kids go to bed unless she wanted to) but she said she was struggling with me being downstairs or something to that effect.

50% of me thinks she will stop being this mad at me and say I can stay downstairs eventually. 50% of me thinks she's going to come to a conclusion that she wants a divorce from this. That's the limbo I'm living in right now.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Send her to the infidelity section here if she is divorcing you over this!!!! DUDE


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Here are my thoughts:

1. Do not ignore calls from the church. Their concerns are PERFECTLY valid, and if you try to put yourself in their shoes, perhaps you could understand why they would feel that more investigation is warranted. Let them talk to you as much as they want, be as forthcoming as possible. This will also help put your wife at ease.

2. Be honest with yourself. Everything you've said does suggest that if that girl hadn't put a stop to it early on, or worse, had responded in kind, that you very easily could have taken it much further. Honestly, I hesitate to say that being attracted to a 15 year old girl makes you a "pedophile" but it's certainly a warning sign, and you have to understand that it isn't reasonable to expect people to just take your word for it.

3. Are these both the only two incidents? The way you say that there isn't anything left to tell, "unless it's something I'm truly not aware of, like how someone interpreted something I did that wasn't intended how it was taken" just makes it clearly sound like there is more that could be told. That's basically saying, "No I haven't done anything else that I would personally consider to be wrong, or if I have, it wasn't done with wrong intentions." Honestly if I were the pastor hearing what you said, I know I wouldn't be able to just trust your interpretation of the events and would be wanting to interview every single member of the youth group. I ask if these are really the ONLY two questionable events, because if anything else comes out, even a minor thing, and you didn't speak up about it first, then your already deep hole will become considerably deeper.

4. It makes perfect sense why your wife is so upset. What you did was pretty despicable. You say however that she doesn't think you are a pedophile, and as someone else here pointed out, there is a pretty big difference between someone who is attracted to a 15/16 y/o, and someone attracted to a 2/6 year old. So I'm curious, why doesn't she want you home when the kids are sleeping? I'm suspecting that it might not be as much about the kids sleeping, as it is about her feeling uncomfortable/gross about you sleeping in the same bed as her right now, or even in the same house. She clearly believes that you are/were attracted to these teenagers, and probably would have gone farther if you had the chance (she feels), so it makes sense why she would not want you around for a while.

5. In any case, if you are telling the complete truth and not excluding anything, then I'd say you just need to have patience, and be open/forthcoming with everyone involved. I agree that what you did, taken individually and in the perfect context, might not seem so bad IF it was all that happened, but with there being at least two of these issues so close together, and with this being evidence of what could potentially be a far worse crime, you have to understand why everyone is so concerned and distrusting. Again, if you're telling the truth, and you are as helpful as possible, then nothing will be found and in time everyone will hopefully just chalk this up to you being a moron. Though to be safe, you should never be allowed to work with youth ever again. I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but with even ONE red flag like this in your past, you would be far to great of a liability for any organization to allow it. That's the difference between a small four or five figure lawsuit, and a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

Just give it time, have some humility, and I think you'll emerge from this alright. Also, turn to God and seek his wisdom as you move forward from here.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I took OP's comments about the kids to be more like, "she kicked me out, but she's still letting me in the house to be with my kids while they're awake." Not that she didn't trust him around her sleeping children.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks cdbaker. I am obviously struggling with the counsel I'm receiving from the church on this because I'm pretty ashamed of everything that happened.

That said, I do not feel like I am a pedophile, or at the very least I know I don't want to become one. I am starting counseling on what is going on in my head. 

There truly is nothing else to report. While in my phase of gaining these teens acceptance, we had some pretty frank and inappropriate conversations about people in the church but it amounts to little more than gossip (not appropriate). No way should I have been engaging in that, but to me it was more a contributing factor to what happened than an incident in and of itself.

I also think I have a psychological dependence on alcohol to a degree. My dad was a functioning alcoholic and my mom was into a lot of bad things before she died when I was 7. 

Anyway, I don't mean to ramble. I reached out to the pastor who called me earlier today.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I took OP's comments about the kids to be more like, "she kicked me out, but she's still letting me in the house to be with my kids while they're awake." Not that she didn't trust him around her sleeping children.


I'm pretty sure she knows I would never harm my kids, asleep or awake. I just don't think she wants to be around me when it's just us right now. She's letting me do everything with the kids we were doing before this thing happened, and if she felt like I was a threat to them, she'd stop that.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm glad you are talking to the Pastor again. Your characterization didn't sound like a Lutheran, it did sound like a panicked administrator.


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## marriedmanhere (Aug 2, 2012)

cdry,

You said there was nothing else, but then you tell us that you engaged in gossip with kids at church and that you are probably an alcoholic. 

The gossip was not a way to gain the kids trust. It could create barriers in the church.

What else have you not admitted?


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## Average Joe (Sep 2, 2015)

Were you drinking with girls or guys? If girls, maybe your wife is concerned you might really be trying to cheat on her (aside from the "minor" issue).

I have a 16yo daughter. Wondering ... did her parents contact you? I think I might be slightly enraged if it were my daughter.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

marriedmanhere said:


> cdry,
> 
> You said there was nothing else, but then you tell us that you engaged in gossip with kids at church and that you are probably an alcoholic.
> 
> ...


As it relates to improper conduct, my overall vibe with them was overly casual. That in and of itself is inappropriate but to "admit" to something criminal? There is nothing else in that area. But how I was as "one of them" and not their authority figure, yeah, that was totally wrong.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Average Joe said:


> Were you drinking with girls or guys? If girls, maybe your wife is concerned you might really be trying to cheat on her (aside from the "minor" issue).
> 
> I have a 16yo daughter. Wondering ... did her parents contact you? I think I might be slightly enraged if it were my daughter.


She mentioned that (infidelity) but I told her the truth, which is I haven't actually cheated. I don't intend to either. Maybe at one point I was leaning that way, but I didn't and don't intend to. The parents went to the church and the church filed a report with the local police department. I was interviewed by two detectives. After the interview, they talked to the church. Since I haven't been contacted by the authorities in any way nor advised to get legal representation, and the fact that the church is having a meeting about it tomorrow, I'm hoping the legal proceedings won't move forward and they will just handle this internally. I'm not allowed on campus in any way right now. I have been told that will change in time but I will have boundaries in place when that does happen. 

To be frank, I don't know if I can ever show my face there again. I know that's Shame talking...but right now, I'm drowning in it.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

Oh, and the kids I was drinking with was one boy and one girl. I wasn't trying to get anybody "drunk" to take advantage of them, it really was just a group "party" thing. Nobody was improper sexually with anyone else that night. And it was mostly guys, only two girls were present and they weren't there most of the night. It was a bunch of boys and me playing cards (and only one other teen boy was drinking).


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

cdry13 said:


> I believe she doesn't want me to share a bed with her, first and foremost. I offered to stay in our downstairs area after the kids go to bed (we have an office and a couch there, she wouldn't see me after the kids go to bed unless she wanted to) but she said she was struggling with me being downstairs or something to that effect.
> 
> 50% of me thinks she will stop being this mad at me and say I can stay downstairs eventually. 50% of me thinks she's going to come to a conclusion that she wants a divorce from this. That's the limbo I'm living in right now.


ok, that does clear things up. it's not about you and the kids at all.
it's about you and her. she is punishing you. she doesn't want you around and you are banished to motel 6.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

cdry13 said:


> I rejected a call from him today because I felt like he was going to berate me for not admitting to more but in truth, there's nothing more to admit to. Not from where I'm standing anyway.
> 
> But every time I talk to him or see a text from him, fresh waves of guilt and shame wash over me...I feel like he's trying to keep me in this place...


I think you have poor boundaries (alcohol for minors, cute texts to teenagers). You were put in a position of trust with kids, but you are not mature enough for this. There is still scared teenager in there lurking, who wants to be liked, and will do anything.

I do not think your text was supposed to make her feel better. There was a different message behind it and you still do not want to admit even to yourself.

Which bring me to another point: you still do not own your own behavior. You are still using exusing and trying to justify yourself (I was just trying to make her feel better, no one else was drinking). 
Grow up, stand up and say "Yes, I am guilty of inapproprate behavior with minors. People trusted me with their chidlren and I failed them. It was wrong, I was wrong. I apologize, and I promise that this will never happen again" Your wife needs to hear it, your church, the parents. 

I assume you did apologize and said something similar, but I have a feeling - judging by the way you wrote here - that you consider yourself a victim in this situation. Own it, and then you will be able to move on. Not now, when you are still trying to put your head in the sand and pretend it all just happened to you.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> I think you have poor boundaries (alcohol for minors, cute texts to teenagers). You were put in a position of trust with kids, but you are not mature enough for this. There is still scared teenager in there lurking, who wants to be liked, and will do anything.
> 
> I do not think your text was supposed to make her feel better. There was a different message behind it and you still do not want to admit even to yourself.
> 
> ...


I receive this well, and appreciate it. I have made many apologies and take full responsibility for my actions. I am by no means a victim. Yes, my actions towards the teen girl was certainty over the top and wrong, I am just still processing through why I did it when I had never ever done that before. What was different this time?

Thank you for replying.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

cdry13 said:


> She mentioned that (infidelity) but I told her the truth, which is I haven't actually cheated. I don't intend to either. Maybe at one point I was leaning that way, but I didn't and don't intend to.


Ok, whoa whoa whoa, again you're saying something here that makes it sound like there was more going on than what has already come out.

So what do you mean by "Maybe at one point I was leaning that way." Remember, this is being discussed within the context of you engaging in inappropriate behavior and conversations with underage girls. Within that context, you are saying that at one point you maybe considered cheating on your wife? You've got to realize how bad that sounds.

So I've got to ask... back when you were texting with that girl, or sharing alcohol with the other two kids, or perhaps during any other conversations that weren't digitally recorded, were you attracted to her or them? Were you considering a sexual relationship with any of them, if an easy opportunity clearly presented itself? I'm not asking if you were actively pursing that, or pressuring any of them for that, or set out with those intentions. But were you potentially "testing the waters" to see if her or anyone of the others would respond and be open to it? For instance, telling a 15 year old girl that she is really cute COULD be an innocent statement that gets misconstrued. It COULD also be a probing question to test the waters with her, see how she reacts and then go forward or step back.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> ok, that does clear things up. it's not about you and the kids at all.
> it's about you and her. she is punishing you. she doesn't want you around and you are banished to motel 6.


She's not punishing you at all. If anything she is being very accommodating. While still trying to keep her kids safe from your very poor judgement. 


I'll admit, I've got my own issues with boundaries...but you way crossed several boundaries. And your wife shouldn't trust you. Not with her own kids at stake. 

I get that you are working on it and you understand that you did something wrong. But you violated the trust of a lot of people, and your wife may never trust you again. And if she doesn't, you're going to have to know that it's the only reasonable choice. 

I would stop worrying about whether she is going to take you back. For the sake of your kids, I hope she doesn't. And I hope she pushes for fully supervised visitation with your kids. 

You have a lot of work to do on yourself. And it's not going to be resolved in a month or 6 months and maybe not even 6 years. 

As for the girl, you didn't do that to make her feel good, you did that to make you feel good. And you were willing to abuse your power and betray her trust, that you as an adult would keep her safe, to meet your small and selfish want. And until you address that issue and deal with you, you are a risk to anyone who is vulnerable to you. Including your kids and your wife. 

Fortunately for you, your wife seems to have a head on her shoulders. She's created some good healthy boundaries and is still managing to make sure your children have a relationship with you. 

Plan to live separate from them. Work on yourself, and don't push your wife. She's doing the right thing for your children.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

cdbaker said:


> Ok, whoa whoa whoa, again you're saying something here that makes it sound like there was more going on than what has already come out.
> 
> So what do you mean by "Maybe at one point I was leaning that way." Remember, this is being discussed within the context of you engaging in inappropriate behavior and conversations with underage girls. Within that context, you are saying that at one point you maybe considered cheating on your wife? You've got to realize how bad that sounds.
> 
> So I've got to ask... back when you were texting with that girl, or sharing alcohol with the other two kids, or perhaps during any other conversations that weren't digitally recorded, were you attracted to her or them? Were you considering a sexual relationship with any of them, if an easy opportunity clearly presented itself? I'm not asking if you were actively pursing that, or pressuring any of them for that, or set out with those intentions. But were you potentially "testing the waters" to see if her or anyone of the others would respond and be open to it? For instance, telling a 15 year old girl that she is really cute COULD be an innocent statement that gets misconstrued. It COULD also be a probing question to test the waters with her, see how she reacts and then go forward or step back.


THIS!:frown2:Why would you want to be their friend, and not realize the significance of being their authority figure? From my vantage point, it seems you want to be, and want to be perceived as, one of them, including the gossip about the church. You have an insider position as the leader of the youth group and you have power to dig the dirt on stuff they don't even know. What's making you want to roll back to your teen days and be the BMOC? This was all in the context of church, and I am sure the Josh Duggar BS is hanging over your wife's thought processes. I don't think it is just about her not wanting you in her bed. 

And just FYI, I worked for a church for two years. It's why I don't attend church now and I study and teach religion in order to try to make sense of the absolutely unbelievable stupid things that people do in the name of religion, particularly in light of the Jesus cult that gets interpreted to mean "I can do whatever I like and so what, Jesus forgives me." Your church and representatives of it may be taking a hard stance at first and trying to get at the bottom of how many teens may have been affected; their approach initially may be one of tough love. But they DO have a responsibility to try to address issues of forgiveness and reconciliation, and I am really concerned about your outburst about the shame. 

Shame is something that keeps people from seeking the hard path of confession and being forthcoming, and in so doing, it prevents the pathway of openness into the white light of forgiveness and restoration and understanding of oneself and growth in a better more healthy direction. It consigns people to more of the same behavior that brought the shame in the first place. Growth happens in many ways, through counseling and other avenues to opening the Pandora's box of family of origin issues, abandonment issues, and issues of trying to roll back the clock and redo and replay what was lost (including a sense of having had an adolescence). I DO see a fair bit of self-awareness on your part, and you're able to look around and see what happened from the perspective of the people involved, but I see you holding back something, and it may have to do with shame from long before THIS episode. 

You adamantly assert that you are not a victim, so don't let the sense of shame drag you into some other dark hole and keep you stuck there. In my opinion, this is about more than just whether your wife wants to work on your marriage or divorce you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Dude, while what you did was DUMB, its NOTHING!!! You should have apologized, been forgiven and moved ON! You take control of this sitch TODAY!! Tell your wife you are not going ANYWHERE, SCREW HER!!!! She is not your MOMMY...FIND A NEW CHURCH....You must attend a CHurch of Christ if I had to guess...DUDE


Dude got off really lucky. Not charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors is a major break for him.

He is still walking. Youth leader sends flirty texts to my kid or gets alcohol and drinks it with my kid?

Authorities better get to him before I did.

OP. Count your blessings. Your wife is still giving you a chance and you weren't arrested. Stay away from kids and get serious help.

You have it very good. Don't blow your chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

cdry13,
This is going to be a very painful yet truthful observation on my part:

You absolutely are not called to minister to the youth of Christ. In fact interjecting yourself into these rolls that you are neither called or qualified to attend, you do far more damage to the Kingdom of God than good.

Please step out of ministry with some dignity.
My advice is to pray for spiritual blessings, such as, wisdom, discernment, and self control, and remember what Paul said in Romans 7:13-25



Galatians 5:16-26 said:


> _
> But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
> 
> If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another._


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

I was not attracted to the teen at any time. I was looking for an emotional connection I think, but even that I'm not sure of. I don't know everything about why I did what I did, but I know I had never crossed that line in the past so I need to know what happened in my mind and in my life that triggered it this time. This is not some habit or long-term problem. I am seeking counseling and realize just how fortunate I am, and how badly I have messed things up.

Mostly, my wife is so angry with me that I don't know if she'll ever be able to be close to me ever again, and that truth is killing me. But, I told her last night that if she wishes for us to end it, I won't fight her and will continue to be in my kid's lives. No matter what happens between my wife and I, I will always be a father to my children.

But I cannot fix anything with her. I have to fix me, and I have to start soon. Like I said earlier, I'm just having so much trouble handling this new reality and being in limbo. We've never had problems like this and I've never had to stay away from the house at night. I know it's hard on her and she is dealing with so much more because she's still trying to stay connected to the church.

Thank you all for your words of advice and counsel. I know the work ahead will be long and hard but I feel like I can be the man God made me to be when I come out on the other side of this. I can only hope and pray that my family will be intact to see it happen, but if it not, God has a plan for me. Thanks again.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

cdry13 said:


> I was not attracted to the teen at any time. I was looking for an emotional connection I think, but even that I'm not sure of. I don't know everything about why I did what I did, but I know I had never crossed that line in the past so I need to know what happened in my mind and in my life that triggered it this time. This is not some habit or long-term problem. I am seeking counseling and realize just how fortunate I am, and how badly I have messed things up.
> 
> Mostly, my wife is so angry with me that I don't know if she'll ever be able to be close to me ever again, and that truth is killing me. But, I told her last night that if she wishes for us to end it, I won't fight her and will continue to be in my kid's lives. No matter what happens between my wife and I, I will always be a father to my children.
> 
> ...


I whole-heartedly agree and your heart is in the right place to seek counseling to figure out what triggered you to do these things.

Your wife is probably very, very embarrassed and there is nothing YOU can do to right that wrong now. I hope she is seeking counseling for this, too.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

You keep referring to limbo. I understand it. My h just retained an attorney and I can't wait to get the divorce over with. But from a religious perspective, in terms of the way it works in religious practice in all religions, limbo is a form of something related to ritual and rites of passage, called liminality. In a ritual that prepares someone for ordination, or for confirmation or bar mitzvah, the person is separated from the normal routines, the normal expectations. A young Jewish man goes to study Torah in preparation for his bar mitzvah after school every day, to read a chosen passage from the scripture at the ceremony marking his transition from childhood to adulthood. Young people in various Christian traditions begin to study the history of their tradition and its beliefs and doctrines, and make the voluntary choice to join that tradition that they were born into; their status changes, they go from children to potential adults, and their roles in relation to their religion and society change. The religion and the society can begin to expect more from them as they transition to adulthood. They are expected to begin to think like adults (it IS a process), a rite of passage, marking the beginning of the process from thinking like a child to thinking like an adult, and all the ethical and moral responsibility that entails. After the liminal period is over, the young person or ordinand is reincorporated into the community with a different status, that of adult, or clergy person, or voluntary participating member who has accepted the ethical, moral, ritual, and sacred responsibilities of the tradition, or whatever the role is the person is training for within that tradition. 

You can choose to think of limbo as an excruciating kind of purgatory, where you're dependent on outside situations or the activities of others to set you free or determine what happens to you, or you can choose to see this as a liminal period where you train and study and look within, discovering and leaving behind what has caused you to have this lapse and addressing that. You can do the work and recognize the purpose of this rite of passage and be reincorporated, first to yourself, and then to your family and community, as the person your religion calls you to be. It is much more than a case of cheap grace and easy believism (Deitrich Bonhoeffer); it is a choice. 

I think you have what it takes to do it. 

Good luck.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

BlueWoman said:


> She's not punishing you at all. If anything she is being very accommodating. While still trying to keep her kids safe from your very poor judgement.
> 
> 
> I'll admit, I've got my own issues with boundaries...but you way crossed several boundaries. And your wife shouldn't trust you. Not with her own kids at stake.
> ...


you make some great points here, but what i still don't get is what exactly is she protecting her kids from?

how does his wrongful behavior with non-related teens relate to what he might do with his young kids to threaten them? what are examples (possibilities) of how he would threaten his own kids?
i'm not saying your wrong, i'm just not getting how you are leaping from his behavior with teens to threatening his kids.

i'm still thinking that her shutting him out is a form of punishment.
not necessarily unjustified, but punishment nevertheless.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> You keep referring to limbo. I understand it. My h just retained an attorney and I can't wait to get the divorce over with. But from a religious perspective, in terms of the way it works in religious practice in all religions, limbo is a form of something related to ritual and rites of passage, called liminality. In a ritual that prepares someone for ordination, or for confirmation or bar mitzvah, the person is separated from the normal routines, the normal expectations. A young Jewish man goes to study Torah in preparation for his bar mitzvah after school every day, to read a chosen passage from the scripture at the ceremony marking his transition from childhood to adulthood. Young people in various Christian traditions begin to study the history of their tradition and its beliefs and doctrines, and make the voluntary choice to join that tradition that they were born into; their status changes, they go from children to potential adults, and their roles in relation to their religion and society change. The religion and the society can begin to expect more from them as they transition to adulthood. They are expected to begin to think like adults (it IS a process), a rite of passage, marking the beginning of the process from thinking like a child to thinking like an adult, and all the ethical and moral responsibility that entails. After the liminal period is over, the young person or ordinand is reincorporated into the community with a different status, that of adult, or clergy person, or voluntary participating member who has accepted the ethical, moral, ritual, and sacred responsibilities of the tradition, or whatever the role is the person is training for within that tradition.
> 
> You can choose to think of limbo as an excruciating kind of purgatory, where you're dependent on outside situations to set you free or determines what happens to, or you can choose to see this as a liminal period where you train and study and look within, discovering and leaving behind what has caused you to have this lapse and addressing that. You can do the work and recognize the purpose of this rite of passage and be reincorporated, first to yourself, and then to your family and community, as the person your religion calls you to be. It is much more than a case of cheap grace and easy believism (Deitrich Bonhoeffer); it is a choice.
> 
> ...


This is something I really needed to hear. Thank you.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

cdry13 said:


> I was not attracted to the teen at any time. I was looking for an emotional connection I think, but even that I'm not sure of. I don't know everything about why I did what I did, but I know I had never crossed that line in the past so I need to know what happened in my mind and in my life that triggered it this time. This is not some habit or long-term problem. I am seeking counseling and realize just how fortunate I am, and how badly I have messed things up.
> 
> Mostly, my wife is so angry with me that I don't know if she'll ever be able to be close to me ever again, and that truth is killing me. But, I told her last night that if she wishes for us to end it, I won't fight her and will continue to be in my kid's lives. No matter what happens between my wife and I, I will always be a father to my children.
> 
> ...


Yes, you definitely need to get started with that independent counseling to dig into what has happened here, and I know you have plans to do that.

I think a lot of people demonize those who have relations with underage persons maybe more than they should. To be clear, what those people have done is terribly wrong and they deserve the punishment they get, but what I mean is that I think folks see these people and view them as extreme perverts who spent a great deal of time/effort doing what they did, with full knowledge every step of the way that what they were doing is wrong. Meaning, I don't think most pedophiles (even for the teenage variety) anxiously set out to go find a 15 year old girl for sex, thinking about how to meet them, lure them in, plan a meeting, etc. For some of those people, that might be true. 

I would venture to guess however that for most of them, they just sort of fell into that situation via a series of minor "innocent-ISH" situations that should have been red flags but were ignored by fooling themselves into believing it's innocent or not a big deal. Situations that most would consider inappropriate, but not necessarily automatically wrong for instance. Like a man giving a non-related young girl a ride home, or texting her late at night, or her hanging out with a man after school, or taking her out for ice cream or coffee, or telling her that she is super cute, etc. Those things aren't criminal, they CAN be perfectly innocent, which is how I think a lot of people who get themselves into trouble view them, and later on exclaim, "I never meant for it to go there. I was just trying to be nice/friendly/helpful!" Then depending on how those things go with the youngster, it can so easily lead to enormous mistakes. What I am saying is that when you let yourself get into those kinds of red flag "but could feasibly be innocent" scenarios, you are on a VERY slippery slope and everyone will take those red flag scenarios VERY seriously.

So again, I'm not trying to demonize you. It sounds like you ultimately didn't cross the REALLY dark red line here. But while you are processing everything, make sure you don't just dismiss what you've done vs. what those who have gone to jail for this sort of thing as though they were all mentally deranged perverts whose actions were inevitable. In most cases, they just traveled down the a similar path as your own, but with one or two pieces of the story going a different direction.


So with all of that said, again I've got to ask. What did you mean when you said that maybe at one point you had considered cheating on your wife? I recognize that you say you aren't/weren't attracted to this girl, and only sought the emotional connection. But if she had responded differently and invited your affections, do you think you would have pursued it further?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

cdbaker said:


> Yes, you definitely need to get started with that independent counseling to dig into what has happened here, and I know you have plans to do that.
> 
> I think a lot of people demonize those who have relations with underage persons maybe more than they should. To be clear, what those people have done is terribly wrong and they deserve the punishment they get, but what I mean is that I think folks see these people and view them as extreme perverts who spent a great deal of time/effort doing what they did, with full knowledge every step of the way that what they were doing is wrong. Meaning, I don't think most pedophiles (even for the teenage variety) anxiously set out to go find a 15 year old girl for sex, thinking about how to meet them, lure them in, plan a meeting, etc. For some of those people, that might be true.
> 
> ...


yes. painful as it is (to know thyself better), ask yourself a hard question in your own mind (not even an answer here), and be completely brutally honest. what do you think you would have done if this chick would have sent you a sort of 'come-on'? where would it have gone. The answer is practically speaking irrelevant because you didn't do anything with her other than what you did and she stopped it. the answer is only self introspective and can be part of your healing process.

this is not to beat you up. i think you've been beaten up quite a bit already, and i think you are genuinely contrite and resolute.

by the way. back a few pages, you said you talked to your pastor.
what did he have to say, if you don't mind sharing.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

cdbaker said:


> So with all of that said, again I've got to ask. What did you mean when you said that maybe at one point you had considered cheating on your wife? I recognize that you say you aren't/weren't attracted to this girl, and only sought the emotional connection. But if she had responded differently and invited your affections, do you think you would have pursued it further?


In truth, I don't think I ever contemplated physically cheating on her, I think I'm referring to an emotional connection that in fact is the same as cheating on someone, because you are close with someone who isn't your spouse. I truly do not believe I would have ever seen it through to physical contact or even meeting out. Thankfully we never got that far, and now I can begin to work on what it is that led me to cross that line when I haven't ever done that.


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## cdry13 (Sep 22, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> by the way. back a few pages, you said you talked to your pastor.
> what did he have to say, if you don't mind sharing.


I was dreading the conversation but he was calling to ask how I was processing all of this in my heart, to let me know that he knows he's been hard on me with that but it was because he loves me as a friend, and to let me know that while what I did was bad, he believes I'm not a horrible person and that sometimes God gives you these grenades in your life to wake you up to the person He wants you to be. It was an encouraging call.

He may yet get hard on me again (and I'd deserve it then too) but it was nice to just talk to my friend again.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

cdry13 said:


> I was dreading the conversation but he was calling to ask how I was processing all of this in my heart, to let me know that he knows he's been hard on me with that but it was because he loves me as a friend, and to let me know that while what I did was bad, he believes I'm not a horrible person and that sometimes God gives you these grenades in your life to wake you up to the person He wants you to be. It was an encouraging call.
> 
> He may yet get hard on me again (and I'd deserve it then too) but it was nice to just talk to my friend again.


wow. sounds like a good pastor. with his head screwed on straight.
you'd be surprised how many are out to lunch. keep communications with him open get his council when available.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am having doubts that this post is true. The story seems orchestrated to excite discord. Don't think any man would be this glib about such a serious transgression. But just in case....

What are you asking, why did you post?

What you did was more serious than you are willing to face. You knew what you were doing, you fantasized about it and you hoped she would bite. That child was entrusted to you by her parents. They reasoned that you were a worthy steward of character and morals who would treat her the way you would treat your own child. In other words, they thought you really believed the Bible, "Do onto others...."

You need to drop the glib breezy attitude about what you did. Give the Priest what he needs. An apology for betraying his trust, reassurance that you have told him everything and atonement. Atonement means you walk with him in his distress. Reassure him as many times as he needs to hear it. You made him look bad and like he is a bad judge of character. He feels at fault for his mistaken assessment of your character. 

You are not entitled to instant forgiveness from your wife. You are not sufficiently sorry nor to you accept the seriousness of what you have done. Maybe your lack of contrition is circumstantial because you cannot accept the vileness of what you were planning.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I don't know you, your wife knows you best and I am guessing that the version of the facts you have given us is the sanitized version.

What on earth is a grown man in a position of trust with a church doing drinking alcohol with teenagers and then having inappropriate conversations/texts with girls? By judgement call by the church imo.

You have gone away over the line, didn't you think for a minute that this was more than just being inappropriate?

What was your motivation? To get them to like you, to do more than that? You have to be honest with yourself. You say you wanted an emotional connection. Even if you are not getting this with your wife, a connection with young people, is something entirely different, you sound confused. Glad you are getting counselling, do you have anything in your past that needs to be dealt with, you as the victim?

As for your wife, she has every right to be angry and upset as you betrayed her trust, you have shown a huge lack of judgement and to a certain extent it comes across as really creepy. 
You say you are filled with shame but the way you articulate your actions, I do not think you realize the seriousness of them.

For the moment, you have to really put your all into your counselling and tell your wife you are really sorry and are prepared to wait for whatever she wants to do. I imagine she will need counselling for this too, as it will have affected her and her view of you and the marriage.


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