# Resurfaced...



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

So some may remember me, I'm going to try and make this short..
Back story (hubs HD, me LD two kids 20 months apart) Sex once a week too him was not enough, pressure from him made me want him less, sometimes we went two weeks. This went on for 5 years. Last year, Jan we started rekindling our emotional intimacy, and sexual intimacy quickly followed... we worked hard at it, me especially with the sex thing, started giving him bjs, etc... all I requested of him, was to make time for me, be a bit more romantic, send me a random text, email whatever... well it lasted for a bit (from him) very quickly wore off... I continued with sexual escapades, we made up games, etc. Over the last two months things have gone south again... The last time he did anything romantic for me was July my birthday last year. Although we did have a good time on our anniversary. He even forgot mothers day this year and just ran out after church and got me a card from him and the kids. He did say a couple weeks ago he wants me to want him like I did when we first started working on all of this... to be frank, I want to as well, but it just seems forced at this point. I offer myself freely for the most part, and engage actively... don't always get off because I feel like it's rushed. (He has always had an issue with pre-ejac: don't see that changing, we've been married 10 years, and even on days when we have sex more than once, he has this issue) it's all good, except when he comes to me and does something to signal he wants sex, grabs my tit, my ass says something, and he is ready to go in ten seconds flat, while it seems to take me longer to get going because he has done nothing to make me desire him in the meantime. I have to in my head get myself thinking of sex, do exercises, etc, if I know the time is coming and I want to please him, but get off myself too. 
I'm confused about his lack of emotional intimacy with me, I have brought it up, suggested things, he usually shoots them down. Althougth with the sex games, I have played along.... 

I am at a loss here, I don't want to talk about it with him anymore. Whenever I bring something up, he says he feels like we are starting all over. I do not. I feel like we have made massive progress with some things... but our intimacy suffers. And then I don't want to turn him down, so like the other day, he was in the mood, fresh from the shower, and I said ok and locked the bedroom door, but the kids got into a fight and they were hollaring my name.... and then he was disappointed I didn't get off, but sat there and made comments about how awesome it was (totally confused me).... 

I feel like at this point we are awesome life partners, great coparents etc, but that when it comes to being together "in love" whatever you want to call it, we keep missing something. At the same time, I feel like he doesn't give any effort, he thinks that watching tv together is quality time, and I then sometimes wonder (I know this is cliche but I am sure there are others who feel the same) he just comes to me when he needs to get off, or vise versa, it's just quick sex, we've lost the love making part, because in between there is no love given.

As I write this, I think maybe I could show more affection, but I almost feel like there is no point because he doesn't get the difference between showing love and making love. (If that makes sense). Are my methods wrong? Is my line of thinking wrong? I am a religious person and do not plan on getting divorced, I would much rather fix this, considering we do not have really any other issues (minor money problems, kids disagreements, normal stuff). Any advice for us?:scratchhead:


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

You seem to be doing a great job in meeting his needs even though he I still struggling to meet yours. That says a lot about you imo, my thought was....are you being explicit in what you need and want. I'm sure you have told him generally but it is also important to do so in the moment. Nobody is a mind reader he may not see the opportunities or know what to do in the moment. Tell him. If you want something say...I would love to or it would be great if......whatever.....if he responds positively make a big deal about it, tell him how great it makes you feel....keep that up and keep doing you've been doing for him and see how things develop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I have been specific, I have given examples, for instance (he always says money is an issue he can't do grandious things) I said you could write me a poem, or a note... I explain how much I love back rubs (he likes bjs) I could go on... on the tv thing, we talked about other things we could do, he likes to play video games with me (he 36 me 31) I try them, many I do not like... but we did have one we both liked and had fun at it. We don't have much to talk about because there is only one organization/charity we do together and that one seems to cause disagreements.... I have told him to hold me, how he used to play with my hair and I love that... he doesn't do any of that anymore? Do I need to bring it up again????? And how do I do it in a way in which he doesn't feel like he is "starting at square one" as he likes to say...


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

OP,
I felt this very same way just two days ago. Many conversations about what my needs are as the wife, get dismissed.

I was even chatised for not being grateful enough for what he has done for me.

I tried to use this analogy with my H:
He carefully spent time and money to give me 10 oranges. 
He is upset that I do not appreciate it enough.
And that in turn makes him angry... and he starts thinking about how he needs 20 limes and I only give him 3.

So now he doesn't want to give me ANY oranges, I am selfish, and ungrateful! Unless I start giving him 30 limes, he isn't about to consider the oranges I want ! So there.

I asked for... just 1 apple. 
And I told him I had expressed my need for 1 apple on several occasions. 
And I had further stopped giving him limes, because he just... wasn't... listening.... to what I wanted.

His reply was "please put it in writing and I'll do what you are asking".

The book HIs Needs Her Needs and the Emotional Quiz can be helpful. 

It's human nature to give your partner what YOU want. Some people have a hard time seeing it otherwise. The book has been helpful to many people.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

deejov said:


> OP,
> I felt this very same way just two days ago. Many conversations about what my needs are as the wife, get dismissed.
> 
> I was even chatised for not being grateful enough for what he has done for me.
> ...


Dee... I am totally confused. I gave him what he wanted, not what I wanted, I specifically asked, requested, even wrote down, what I wanted (as did he).


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

You did the right thing. The book might help him see that he is not hearing what you want. Other than you talking.

He is the one that might be giving you what he wants instead.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Yes you have told him and I know its frustrating that he is not to taking the lead and running with what you have said but if your both sitting on the couch for instance... and you would like him to give you a massage do you say so? Whatever you are wanting in the moment do you tell him, does he refuse, or are you just upset because he didn't think of it himself at the time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> As long as his sexual needs are met, things will not change. You know that this will not continue right? You will reach a tipping point and just stop having sex with him. If that what you want?
> 
> You have tried talking,asking explicitly asking for what you need more than once. The only thing you can do now is to put a temporary moratorium on sex.
> 
> ...


My thinking is what she needs does not come naturally to him. Giving a list might not be the best way to teach him. His perception may not be aligned with hers. That's why I keep stressing she explicitly says what she wants and needs in the moment. There is no guesswork involved on his part in that way. He may not be intentionally withholding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

inarut said:


> Yes you have told him and I know its frustrating that he is not to taking the lead and running with what you have said but if your both sitting on the couch for instance... and you would like him to give you a massage do you say so? Whatever you are wanting in the moment do you tell him, does he refuse, or are you just upset because he didn't think of it himself at the time?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I want to be wanted and not just for sex. I want to be wanted as his wife again. I don't want to have to ask, just as he doesn't want to have to ask for sex.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> As long as his sexual needs are met, things will not change. You know that this will not continue right? You will reach a tipping point and just stop having sex with him. If that what you want?
> 
> You have tried talking,asking explicitly asking for what you need more than once. The only thing you can do now is to put a temporary moratorium on sex.
> 
> ...


Ug... no sex? Are you kidding me. This is a man who would flip out before if it was the 7th day.... (yes he counted) and that was what started the whole thing, his pressuring me for sex, but not meeting my needs is what started me down the LD path (together with breast feeding two children back to back). I weigh the same as I did in HS. He says he is attracted to me, but his actions speak louder than words... I definitely do not think that will help my marriage... that would back track things. Although I guess they sort of have already have started because when we were doing our own at home MC... with articles, and books and stuff, our emotional connection was way higher and I initiated a lot more than I do now.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

inarut said:


> My thinking is what she needs does not come naturally to him. Giving a list might not be the best way to teach him. His perception may not be aligned with hers. That's why I keep stressing she explicitly says what she wants and needs in the moment. There is no guesswork involved on his part in that way. He may not be intentionally withholding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do lasting relationships work that way? Do I have to say, hey honey, would you tell me I look nice in this? Hey babe, how about you let your hands wander when you give me a hug? Hey babe, how about a long kiss instead of a quick peck? Hey hun, I would really like for you to send me a sweet text message.... followed by him doing what I asked for? hmmm.... not sure. I have said all these things before... 

Let me give you an example of one of our agreements in our discussions before... one thing he wanted was bjs to complettion (something I had done only one night early into our marriage drunk and don't remember) I asked how frequently, he said more in foreplay and once a month... I came up with a solution (during my period every month) that way he would still be satisfied during that week.... (as he had put it for years there were other things I could do that week) so I have been doing that... Does he need to remind me? NO. I made him a promise and I stuck to it and I do it with enthusiasm and try to each time make it different... he feels love by sex. I do not. 

As every other female, I need love and afection and to feel wanted to desire sex. I have told him this over and over and over again, had him read the love languages, we read "how marriage works" etc... we talked about it... I guess I am now starting to feel some of his frustration when we used to talk about sex. But I am feeling bitter that for consistently a year now I have done what he has asked and he has not done what I asked. I love him. I pray about it... 

I forgive let go and start new weeks/months over again... I know he has it in him (although he will try and say he doesn't know what to do), he was the most romantic man I had ever met when we were dating and early into our marriage... always leaving notes, messages, did a totally cool scavenger hunt twice, is the best kisser and gives great bear hugs... 
I definitely do not want to back track on our sexlife though.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

You are assuming because you have to ask it wont mean anything if was to give it to you. Have you considered he might be happy to do so even if he didn't think of it himself. Are you aware of all his wants and needs at every moment? If you were unaware of something and he had to tell would you be happy to give it? Should he think nothing of it or even be angry for having to tell you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

deejov said:


> You did the right thing. The book might help him see that he is not hearing what you want. Other than you talking.
> 
> He is the one that might be giving you what he wants instead.


Dee, 
He is not a reader. We went over the material together... maybe he needs a reminder? What do you mean about giving me what he wants... like he just wants sex? No affection? I can't live like that.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Do lasting relationships work that way? Do I have to say, hey honey, would you tell me I look nice in this? Hey babe, how about you let your hands wander when you give me a hug? Hey babe, how about a long kiss instead of a quick peck? Hey hun, I would really like for you to send me a sweet text message.... followed by him doing what I asked for? hmmm.... not sure. I have said all these things before...
> 
> Let me give you an example of one of our agreements in our discussions before... one thing he wanted was bjs to complettion (something I had done only one night early into our marriage drunk and don't remember) I asked how frequently, he said more in foreplay and once a month... I came up with a solution (during my period every month) that way he would still be satisfied during that week.... (as he had put it for years there were other things I could do that week) so I have been doing that... Does he need to remind me? NO. I made him a promise and I stuck to it and I do it with enthusiasm and try to each time make it different... he feels love by sex. I do not.
> 
> ...


Maybe in terms of what I'm telling you you've been there done that...I don't know it was just my impression of what might help. It seemed to me you were making progress and I gave my thoughts on what might help things along in getting your needs met

I do think that is how long term relationships are built and is what sometimes needs to happen until it becomes habitual. It won't always work. Depends on the couple, each individual. You said at one point, in the beginning he did all these things but he stopped doing them. That happened for a reason. Maybe he felt unappreciated or didn't know how much those things meant to you but now he is out of the habit of doing these things. Maybe he needs some encouragement, positive reinforcment to start those behaviors again. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I missed your other question inarut no I am not aware of every single need and want he has.... at every moment. I don't expect him to be of mine either...
I see what you mean... maybe he just needs reminded and encouragement and some sort of reinforcement... although I am not sure how to reinforce it... I thought the change in our sex life would've done that.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

Funny my #1 saying I also have 3 more that are in tandem 
1] Actions speaks louder than words


livelaughlovenow said:


> He says he is attracted to me, but his actions speak louder than words...


2] If you do NOT learn from history, then you are doomed to repeat it 
_I would start here because you are not looking at what history he has to overcome. He has certain expectations of what a marriage looks like, and what he fantasizes it should be... I've come to understand that just trying to stay connected and keep an understanding of how each person in a marriage approaches the marriage, will allow a better understanding of what is realistic vs. what can be damaging. _


3] Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why we call it present

4] "DADdddd, Albert Einstein was a really REALLY smart guy. OHHhh YEAH! Well, if he was SOOOoo smart, then how come he's dead?!?!" - I just love Homer Simpson _(last one is two fold. You gotta' laugh a little, plus you do have to keep in mind we are all mortal and subject to death)_



livelaughlovenow said:


> I guess they sort of have already have started because when we were doing our own at home MC... with articles, and books and stuff, our emotional connection was way higher and I initiated a lot more than I do now.


I think you could shake him up & demand he go to MC or you will seek separation. Yes very dramatic and probably not necessary... *BUT* it's one idea... Maybe not a great idea. You could just be honest with him in how you are feeling and tell him you don't want to start all over...

(IMHO) I think MC is more about an objective third party guiding your conversations. It is suppose to make communication and thoughts more open, and honest. Plus as humans we are CONSTANTLY seeking and learning how to communicate better with each other. I have said a few times on TAM forums already, **BUT** will say it again here...

*3 things needed in ANY relationship;*
1] Transparency/Openness *(No secrets!)*
 2] Honesty _(not always as nice and simple as it sounds, can be down right cruel from time-time)_
3] Communication _(mind, body, and soul) these things include doing activities beyond kids that allow connections and explore all aspects of whom you feel you define yourself as being_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I wrote him some questions to open the lines of communication again based on some of the responses here... to give him time to think about them, instead of feeling on the spot... or back at square one, to get an idea of where his brain is at. 
I shall see what happens.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Dee,
> He is not a reader. We went over the material together... maybe he needs a reminder? What do you mean about giving me what he wants... like he just wants sex? No affection? I can't live like that.


The things you have written about wanting... are things that most women stereotypically say they want. They want romance, in general. They want to be treated like a woman once in awhile. 

You got this treatment when you were dating.
Why? Because he was doing the work he needed to do in order to woo you.

Combine this, with what Catherine said.

It's not that he "Just wants sex". It's that he is getting his need for an intimate connection met, and simply doesn't need any more affection than that. His love tank is full. 
Yours, remains not full enough. 

Even if he isn't a reader, doing the quiz together might help. 

If the lack of affection (in the way you need it) causes you to feel LESS about yourself, that would be a boundary, for me.
Any action that another person takes that erodes at my self confidence is unacceptable. 

Consequences of such actions would be a step back, and an evaluation of what I'm really asking for, and why. 

Maybe I am being needy and just need to brush up on my self confidence. If I feel better after a pep talk, then that's my answer.

If I still don't feel confident, then I have a choice.
Either continue to allow someone to erode my integrity, or I simply choose not to. I no longer allow someone to own my self esteem. It's mine.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

deejov said:


> The things you have written about wanting... are things that most women stereotypically say they want. They want romance, in general. They want to be treated like a woman once in awhile.
> 
> You got this treatment when you were dating.
> Why? Because he was doing the work he needed to do in order to woo you.
> ...


I get what you are saying. I am up early this morning due to my duaghter coughing and realized another thing, he sleeps on the couch again.... has been for the last couple months, my desire for him goes stale when he can't even take the time to get off his lazy ass and come to bed with me, and instead "Allows" himmself to fall asleep there, it is deep down one of my biggesit irks. He can do it once in a while and I would be fine, if we have a sick child, fine, but no, lately it has been on a regular basis and I am over it. You know Dee you brought up a really good point, other people make me feel good, the way they speak to me makes me feel good, I make myself feel good, many times my husband leaves me questioning myself, if he even wants me for me, or just to get his jollies off. Although I get what you mean on love tanks, he and I discussed this at length, maybe he just needs a reminder, I have no idea... so all night while he was up doing god only knows what he could've answered my questions and instead chose not to. Nice huh.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Well how many times a week do you have sex? Just once? I know I would be counting the days if it were just once a week. Sounds like his needs are not met and your frustrated with even that. Pressure to have sex more than once a week. Pressure? Has told you his needs ? How much he really needs sex.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Well how many times a week do you have sex? Just once? I know I would be counting the days if it were just once a week. Sounds like his needs are not met and your frustrated with even that. Pressure to have sex more than once a week. Pressure? Has told you his needs ? How much he really needs sex.


The pressure was before.... now he doesn't, once a week to twice a week, some weeks are three times for the last about year, up until a month or two ago things have cooled off.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Has he told you how many times a week he needs it?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I get what you are saying. I am up early this morning due to my duaghter coughing and realized another thing, he sleeps on the couch again.... has been for the last couple months, my desire for him goes stale when he can't even take the time to get off his lazy ass and come to bed with me, and instead "Allows" himmself to fall asleep there, it is deep down one of my biggesit irks. He can do it once in a while and I would be fine, if we have a sick child, fine, but no, lately it has been on a regular basis and I am over it. You know Dee you brought up a really good point, other people make me feel good, the way they speak to me makes me feel good, I make myself feel good, many times my husband leaves me questioning myself, if he even wants me for me, or just to get his jollies off. Although I get what you mean on love tanks, he and I discussed this at length, maybe he just needs a reminder, I have no idea... so all night while he was up doing god only knows what he could've answered my questions and instead chose not to. Nice huh.


All that you have said here is not to make you feel resentment... but just to encourage some questions about yourself. 

Discussing things at length seldom works. Action does. He is using actions, is he not? 

What actions could you use that you would protect your self confidence, while still doing your best to meet your partner's needs? 

The answer is different for everyone, but for me it is simply slowly working on not giving more than you are receiving, but I also firmly believe this should be done while actively working on your own self confidence to ensure you are not being needy.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree that it is awkward to ask for things, but I think it is harder to ask ahead of time in a general way, e.g. 'would you send me notes, compliment me sometimes, etc'. 

It sounds like your H likes to rush sex. What if once he is interested and initiating sex, you slow things down right then and ask for some attention. Say 'I'd like a nice backrub to help me get in the mood', or 'I'd like for you to play with my hair for a while', or 'let's kiss for a while first'. Make him give you some attention in exactly the sort of way you want when he's already in the mood. Tell him right then you'd be turned on if he went in the other room and sent you a sexy text on your phone. Ask him to set up a scavenger hunt or what he did when you were dating. Ask him to light candles, put on music, get out feathers/oils/sex toys or whatever you want. Ask him to read an erotic story to you...

Or maybe just tell him, if he wants sex or bjs, you'd like him to flirt and show love in various ways all throughout that day and you'll make it worth his while in the evening. Then stick to that and turn him down if he hasn't been romantic or flirty that day. 

You've got leverage to get him to change his habits because at least he desires you. A wife with an LD husband that doesn't do romantic things or make an effort doesn't have the leverage that you do.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Only the higher sex rank has leverage. Period. Unless your mega rich.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Only the higher sex rank has leverage. Period. Unless your mega rich.


As long as someone needs something from you that they can't (or are not willing to) easily get elsewhere, you have at least some leverage.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Kari said:


> As long as someone needs something from you that they can't (or are not willing to) easily get elsewhere, you have at least some leverage.


You made my point. The higher sex rank CAN easily get it elsewhere.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

One word: counseling.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Or....maybe read "His Needs, Her Needs" together.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I missed your other question inarut no I am not aware of every single need and want he has.... at every moment. I don't expect him to be of mine either...
> I see what you mean... maybe he just needs reminded and encouragement and some sort of reinforcement... although I am not sure how to reinforce it... I thought the change in our sex life would've done that.


Nobody does at every moment was just trying to make a point. 
When you want something from him just say it. For instance you said you love when he plays with your hair. Just say ....babe I really love it when you play with my hair it really relaxes me. I'm feeling stressed would you do that for me? (say whatever is actually true for you) Then after......thank him ,tell him how great it made you feel and give him a big kiss or hug. Hell, tell him it made you horny...lol...(it might.) In this way you are telling him exactly what you want, exactly how to please you in a positive way that makes him feel good too....this is REINFORCEMENT....it tells him he is wanted, needed, appreciated and can make you happy. I wouldn't be suprrised if after a bit of time and continued reinforcement you will find him doing this on his own because he knows its something he can do that makes you feel good and that will feel good to him. Give this a good try before you retaliate and decide to withhold sex from him. I don't see a positive end with that....just more and more resentment. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Thank you all for your suggestions. We have read his needs her needs, I think he needed a refresher, he admitted to my changes over the last year and his neglect of my request... we joked around that day. 
I started thinking about what one person said about things I am wanting being stereotypical, I don't think they are, they are what I want. A note, a text, hell an email. 
I told him yesterday it would be really neat if once and a while he told me the latest song that makes him think about me. He said what do I do send to you on facebook? Making it into a total joke, I said no, you can text me... smh.... I don't think he understands it's those little things that go a long way for me. I share with him when I hear a song that makes me think of us (not every day) but dang... it's almost as though he diminishes things.... he did the other day when I was home for lunch on the computer rub my shoulders out of nowhere. But to be honest when we had our discussion I just asked him some questions, as to what he thought was most improved by me, what he thought was most improved by him, what he thought I could do better, what he thought he could do better. ANd for him to let me know any questions he wanted answered... sometimes we communicate better that way. He hit the nail on the head when he flat out said he has neglected me lately. He said he feels like he could be more affectionate, and that he had let some other things take precendence in his life over our marriage... yup. Only time will tell if the conversation was basically just to shut me and up and get what he wanted or if he is serious about putting some of his own effort into it again. 
I do not plan to withhold sex from him.... honestly I believe that would be the most childish response, and I do not think sex is a form of punishment.... I have seen what withholding whether intentional or not does to marriages (whether it be just different drive levels or doing it on purpose, I have seen people in all situations and it never ends well).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Have you done the Emotional Needs Questionaires?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

livelaughlovenow I could have written your posts, almost word for word.

Did emotional needs
Did His needs her needs, he still doesn't get that his needs are not my needs. he likes his ankles rubbed, I like my back rubbed, get the hell off my ankles!
Wrote stuff down
Had conversations over and over and over.

Your husband sounds EXACTLY like mine, except the PE. Lazy in terms of the don't want their relationships to be challenging. The don't want to have to leave their little comfort zone. They want everything to be just pleasant, even and simple.


The one thing that seems to missing from your posts though, is how long do you let things slide? You say he's been sleeping on the couch for the past month just because he watches TV and falls asleep. A MONTH? Give that two days TOPS! Tell him the message he sends to you when he sleeps on the sofa is not a message that makes your panties wet! You big oaf!

Compliments... My H couldn't compliment me if his life depended on it. "But I don't know what you ant meant me to say?" (Say 'I'm retarded...' is how I want to reply) He wants me to write a script...cause it will be easier for him to know he has said the right thing!

Also, don't praise sex if it wasn't good. Dont brow beat him or complain, but when he gets his rocks off and leaves you rushing out the door to deal with the kids, just yell back, "I'll take mine as a two hour long back rub, see you at 8!" I send my H articles I want him to read. At first he wouldn't even read them, too busy. But that was the last straw for me. So I told him I was done trying and wanted out. Now he reads them and now we discuss them. He still relies upon me to find things I want him to read, although I have asked him to send me links or articles that he wants me to know about....crickets....

Last week I sent him erotic pics of me, he was away all week. His reply, "I'm hard, can't wait to come home." Then he called to tell me to delete the pics in case our daughter found them. So, I guess it was good that I took them myself rather than go to a photographer who would have actually printed them?

Okay, sorry for the side ranting here. Bottom line, our husbands are clueless and not until we force the issue and keep forcing the issue does anything change. not happy it's always me forcing the issue all the time, me always being the administrator of the marriage, me who requires care and feeding not normal to the average male, but when it's good, it's really good!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Anon,
I used to hold up the marriage all by myself too.
When I tried using boundaries instead, I found 1\10th of the effort reaped 1000x the benefits. And it was much less resentful. Plus it felt good to just act on it, instead of talking. 

But talking does solve the issue for some people.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

deejov said:


> Anon,
> I used to hold up the marriage all by myself too.
> When I tried using boundaries instead, I found 1\10th of the effort reaped 1000x the benefits. And it was much less resentful. Plus it felt good to just act on it, instead of talking.
> 
> But talking does solve the issue for some people.


It is about boundaries and also in how you communicate but your words mean nothing if not backed up by action or lack there of.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Boundaries... In terms of actions? Can you be more specific?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

_They want everything to be just pleasant, even and simple_

Who doesn't? And.... here's a question... why shouldn't it be this way for you? 

Complacency, acceptance that it is your job to keep him on his toes, and make sure he does what he needs to do. Whether it's a script, or otherwise. 

What makes us do this? 
Fear. If we didn't do it... they wouldn't give us what we need, right? Maybe... if you express your expectations clearly, and leave them to their own devices... they will do what they know how, or we will be forced to look at what we are asking for, and what the consequences are for not having our needs met.

And if they don't do it on their own, I'd rather have the truth. 
I'd rather NOT be responsible for making sure my own needs for affection are met. It's a lot of work. 
While they want everything to be just pleasant, even and simple


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

deejov said:


> , I'd rather have the truth.
> e



Yes, I'd rather have the truth too.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm not trying to entice anyone to be negative about this... but just more truthful. About you are asking for, and what you are really getting. Sometimes it means lowering your expectations... with some common sense.

If you married a man who is terrible at expressing romantic gestures, then what did we expect? The small gestures should be appreciated, if possible. 

This is different.. if he is just being lazy.

Sometimes our responsibilities could be turned towards taking turns planning date nights, or adding some excitement. Are we doing our fair share? 

This is different... if we have assumed the responsibility of telling him exactly what to do, it will take time for him to re-assert himself in that role at all. Un-training.

If we with-draw the love bank credits we give without question to our spouse, what happens? How quickly do things implode? 
It's a small experiment that can be eye-opening. For men and women. 

It's not a bad thing. It's just another way of looking at the truth. 
If it implodes quickly, then they truly do love you, as it stings when it is removed. And their boundaries are evident, immediately. It's a serious issue.

What does that say about ourselves? Isn't it more of a reflection on ourselves? Shouldn't we be asserting more respect for ourselves? 

Who is going to listen to the same story over and over when there are no consequences? Not someone who already has boundaries, and wouldn't allow the same kind of behavior to be bestowed upon themselves. That's .... unacceptable.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

deejov said:


> _They want everything to be just pleasant, even and simple_
> 
> Who doesn't? And.... here's a question... why shouldn't it be thIis way for you?
> 
> ...


Fear...yes can be your biggest enemy. It can make you accommodate. And lose sight of yourself in order to please.
Complacency and acceptance is not your job and will not keep him on his toes. It is your job to express what you want, need clearly and simply as well as what you won't tolerate. It is your perception that most men want everything easy and simple. You can't "make sure" he does what he is supposed to. Again its about communicating in a positive way and then observing what he does wth that....not all men will do the "right" thing or may not even know what the "right" thing is if not told.

What's easy for you....if you can be detached enough. Express yourself,fully,thoroughly,and positively. That is being true to yourself. It also makes you vulnerable....which is hard but its a vulnerability that comes from strength not weakness. See what he does /how he reacts and yes give it a bit of time....then decide if you want him or not!
..


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP since you admit your LD and he's HD. I would hope that your husband is very up front with his needs and I'm guessing that its more than one time a week. You never responded to my question "has he told you how often he needs sex?". All of us frustrated HD spouses here would like to know from someone who's LD. Are you willing to change?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I would do the following.

I would have conversation where you tell him how you are doing A, B, C to meet his needs as you see them and feel alot happier and think its done alot to improve your marriage... Ask him what he thinks about what you just said.

Now, this could go in a few directions... First he could have a different feeling and tell you that you are not meeting his needs very well... And that is good information for you to know, and inside this conversation you let him tell you where you are failing to meet his needs. Absorb this but and go off and think about it... Don't get defensive or crticized... Just listen.

But I think it's more likely that he will say he appreciates what you are doing and is alot happier and that you are meeting his needs.

At that point I would would tell him that he could do a better job of meeting your needs... And I would say to him that the HOW is just as important as the What... Example if I were to give you sex but act like I hated it, couldnt do it, it was a big chore, it wasn't fun... how would you like that?

And I would leave him with that he has to go off and decide whether he thinks it's fair that his wife is doing A, B, C better, and that she is not receiving back what she is giving, and what kind of husband does he want to be.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Another LD spouse afraid to answer the real questions.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Another LD spouse afraid to answer the real questions.


LD's "win", HD's "lose" - we can all go home now.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I don't understand the pandering to the OP with softballs and shoulders?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> OP since you admit your LD and he's HD. I would hope that your husband is very up front with his needs and I'm guessing that its more than one time a week. You never responded to my question "has he told you how often he needs sex?". All of us frustrated HD spouses here would like to know from someone who's LD. Are you willing to change?


I already said i did change, only backslid the last month (and even that was only a bit like once a week instead of two-3 times a week where we were for the last year -maybe year and a half-) Plus added romantic gestures on my part, not turning him down, but instead being receptive and letting him know sometimes directly sometimes subtly that I need more amp time.... we played games lots of his ideas I've dressed more sexy, you name it. That part improved, only in the last month has it dropped off, and then of course this week since I addressed my issue he has been more demanding in terms of wanting sex (like this afternoon) But today is a perfect example of how I feel that I have done my part (actively, I am not a fish as I have heard many referred to on here, I tease him, make him hold out sometimes by changing positions, etc). Anyway, afterwards it was like I went back to not existing. For instance I texted him something important he just ignored it... then later he gets all pissy when he says I love you when he is rushed to leave go run some errands and I simply said "see you later"... I don't get it. All lovey for ten mins when he wants something, usually sex. I thought about it today.... at lunch he said something along the lines of do you have ten mins? Now or later... I said now will be better than later due to the time he will be home tonight... but I added, it takes me a little to get warmed up...so you gotta give me more than ten mins... 
Anyway I don't know I am so frustrated. I refuse to backtrack on sex, but I believe when we did talk about numbers he said I would take it every day but (I don't remember the end of it)... and I know he would, we have had some weeks in the last year where we have gone a few days in a row... 

Mrbrains, I don't understand your softball comment?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Hicks said:


> I would do the following.
> 
> I would have conversation where you tell him how you are doing A, B, C to meet his needs as you see them and feel alot happier and think its done alot to improve your marriage... Ask him what he thinks about what you just said.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I did.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Another LD spouse afraid to answer the real questions.


Actually sorry I don't have time to get on every second of the day I was at work. I answered your question before but I missed part of it, sorry about that... as I said he said he would take it every day, that isn't reasonable in our lives, we compromised with more quantity, he just said more, as much as I was willing and requested more bjs... which I have done. (Only in the last month have things backslid just a bit, to about once a week, however our son was sick too and I had my period one week if you must know)... 
Just because I was LD before and you read other stories on here doesn't make me like everyone else. In fact, I have several friends who are going down the LD path and I let them know they need to do things to make themselves feel sexy, but at the same time, I don't want to simply be a piece of meat to my spouse, I wasn't when we were dating and I dont' want to be roommates with benefits now. Clearly your resentment for your own situation comes across in your posts... not cool. Has your wife been receptive at all? I have to my husband, suck his **** at least once a month and every other sex session, we are between 2-3 times a week on average with the exception of this month... and have been steadily at that number a year now. I do expect some level of effort from my husband....


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks for answering. I was looking for answers for my situation in your solution . There are things in what you've said that have been helpful. It's not resentment. But it did get a response. Which I failed to do earlier.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

My wife is much different than you. I was looking for something anything that would help. I found a little.  one should remember the needs verbally expressed by their spouse. If its really important to them.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Good... sometimes printed words on here come off differently and if you look back you will see I was also dealing with a side conversation in my thread, lol. I hope something of what I said was helpful. I think the key is in both parties being HAPPY with the compromise.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Good... sometimes printed words on here come off differently and if you look back you will see I was also dealing with a side conversation in my thread, lol. I hope something of what I said was helpful. I think the key is in both parties being HAPPY with the compromise.


I think I'm a long way away from Happy with the compromise. But that's why I'm here digging in the dirt.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I think I'm a long way away from Happy with the compromise. But that's why I'm here digging in the dirt.


Interesting you say that because that is what brought me back here... only this time, it's him..... not me. bizzzaro. I'll have to find some of your posts and see your back story... it's been a while since I have been on here, but when I first joined I was a regular for a while.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

You don't want to see my story...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> This is exactly what I did.


And what was his response?

The conversation is meant to lead somewhere specific....Something you want him to verbalize....
You find out that while you think you are meeting his needs, you really are not meeting his needs and he tells you how you can meet them better.. Or he verbalizes that he feels you are meeting his needs, and he thought he was meeting yours... Or he wants to meet your needs but doesn't know how or doesnt understand them... OR he doesnt want to meet your needs even though he knows what they are and you are meeting his.
Which of these scenarios is it?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Hicks said:


> And what was his response?
> 
> The conversation is meant to lead somewhere specific....Something you want him to verbalize....
> You find out that while you think you are meeting his needs, you really are not meeting his needs and he tells you how you can meet them better.. Or he verbalizes that he feels you are meeting his needs, and he thought he was meeting yours... Or he wants to meet your needs but doesn't know how or doesnt understand them... OR he doesnt want to meet your needs even though he knows what they are and you are meeting his.
> Which of these scenarios is it?


His response was that I am meeting his needs and he knows he has not met mine and has been very busy (true) but I am still making time for me... He said he would work to get back where he was before romantic wise... well.. yesterday he says "do you have ten mins" I said really? He said I'm trying to be romantic here... I said that is not romance, that is requesting sex. I gave to him freely and enjoyed myself... maybe I am sending mixed messages but I don't want our sex life to go back to what so many post on here about men not getting any, or their wives turning them down... etc.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Hicks,
Did this work in your house? If so, are you willing to share how you did this?

I tried this too.
The second one person starts saying "my needs are not being met".... the other person closes down, frowning upon the perception of selfishness that is before them. 
And if you have "done this talk" previously in the past, you don't get past the first few words. Their minds start spinning about what they are unahppy about. Now they are too angry to express them. 
This works both ways. How many men start having the talk with their wife about his needs... and get the cold shoulder and no response? It works even less effectively on men. Unless that man is educated in his needs her needs. And already getting his needs met, so he is able to see past the selfish implications. 

In my lifetime, most men don't even think of it as needs. That's too deep. They know if they are unhappy about the frequency of sex.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> .. yesterday he says "do you have ten mins" I said really? He said I'm trying to be romantic here... I said that is not romance, that is requesting sex. .


If he says 'do you have ten minutes', why don't you say 'no, but do you have an hour?' Have him give you a half hour back rub, foot rub, play with your hair, sing you a song, make out, flirt, sext you, dance, read erotic stories, give you oral, or whatever it is YOU want before the intercourse. Don't do anymore quickies, dont let him be lazy, insist he bring the romance and take time getting you in the mood. Have you tried this?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Kari said:


> If he says 'do you have ten minutes', why don't you say 'no, but do you have an hour?' Have him give you a half hour back rub, foot rub, play with your hair, sing you a song, make out, flirt, sext you, dance, read erotic stories, give you oral, or whatever it is YOU want before the intercourse. Don't do anymore quickies, dont let him be lazy, insist he bring the romance and take time getting you in the mood. Have you tried this?


No but I will.... that sounds like the perfect response and I can do it in a flirty way. THANK YOU best advice for this issue yet.


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