# Husband is texting/chatting with other women



## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

We have been married for 16 years. A few years ago, I caught my husband texting another woman and found naked pictures of her on his phone. She was local and I met her once. I also found very inappropriate pictures of women he had never met. Relationships were not physical - at least I chose to believe him when he said so. Very difficult to go thru but I forgave him (did not forget - never will). Fast-forward almost 2 years later. Read a very inappropriate text exchange on his phone with another woman whom we both know. He insisted it was a joke he was playing on a friend. Long story short, he got her to send him a picture of her in a bikini and showed the pic to his buddy to say "see I am sleeping with her on the side". Then he proceeded to text to her things like "I told him we have been f***ing for months". And she came back with "no, tell him we have been f***ing for years!". I saw the conversation and hit the roof. Took his phone and would not give it back. Made him un-friend her on FB. Allowed him to explain his way thru it and accepted her apology when she called me to say she was sorry and that it was just a joke. The minute after he found out she apologized to me, he re-friended her on FB. I was not happy about it but I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really don't want to be the jealous and insecure wife. Also, he has now locked his phone so I can't see what he does/has on it. I have since found out that they have continued to correspond electronically AND in person - she works at our bank and he makes the deposits there almost daily. Girls, I know what you are going to say - run for the hills. Get out now. But GUYS, I really need to hear from you. I need the male perspective on this....he insists that he has never cheated on me. He does not view this electronic (and in-person) flirting as infidelity. He says that he wants the attention of other women so that he can feel an ego boost of sorts. He has made no secret of the fact that he fantasizes about having sex with other women. If I would give him permission, he would do it. I told him I will NEVER give him permission. I was really struggling to trust him again after what happened 2 years ago, and then "episode 2" happened starting about 3 months ago. I feel like he totally pulled the rug out from under me AGAIN and I am so hurt. We have 2 kids 6 and 11. I am struggling with the prospect of having to "put up with" this type of behavior for the sake of keeping my family together. He knows what he's doing is wrong, but he feels a sense of "entitlement" to do it because he has provided a wonderful "material" life for me and the kids. We do not live paycheck to paycheck. We have a nice house and drive nice cars. He has met my PHYSICAL/MATERIAL/FINANCIAL needs, but does that give him the right to discard my EMOTIONAL need to trust him? I feel like he is on a slippery slope when he flirts with these women, he is going to put himself in a situation where he will have the opportunity to cheat, and he just might do it.....and I will never know about it.......and then he will start living this "double life" that so many men do.....Guys, give me some feedback......


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

whatisheupto? said:


> We have been married for 16 years. A few years ago, I caught my husband texting another woman and found naked pictures of her on his phone. She was local and I met her once. I also found very inappropriate pictures of women he had never met. Relationships were not physical - at least I chose to believe him when he said so. Very difficult to go thru but I forgave him (did not forget - never will). Fast-forward almost 2 years later. Read a very inappropriate text exchange on his phone with another woman whom we both know. He insisted it was a joke he was playing on a friend. Long story short, he got her to send him a picture of her in a bikini and showed the pic to his buddy to say "see I am sleeping with her on the side". Then he proceeded to text to her things like "I told him we have been f***ing for months". And she came back with "no, tell him we have been f***ing for years!". I saw the conversation and hit the roof. Took his phone and would not give it back. Made him un-friend her on FB. Allowed him to explain his way thru it and accepted her apology when she called me to say she was sorry and that it was just a joke. The minute after he found out she apologized to me, he re-friended her on FB. I was not happy about it but I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really don't want to be the jealous and insecure wife. Also, he has now locked his phone so I can't see what he does/has on it. I have since found out that they have continued to correspond electronically AND in person - she works at our bank and he makes the deposits there almost daily. Girls, I know what you are going to say - run for the hills. Get out now. But GUYS, I really need to hear from you. I need the male perspective on this....he insists that he has never cheated on me. He does not view this electronic (and in-person) flirting as infidelity. He says that he wants the attention of other women so that he can feel an ego boost of sorts. He has made no secret of the fact that he fantasizes about having sex with other women. If I would give him permission, he would do it. I told him I will NEVER give him permission. I was really struggling to trust him again after what happened 2 years ago, and then "episode 2" happened starting about 3 months ago. I feel like he totally pulled the rug out from under me AGAIN and I am so hurt. We have 2 kids 6 and 11. I am struggling with the prospect of having to "put up with" this type of behavior for the sake of keeping my family together. He knows what he's doing is wrong, but he feels a sense of "entitlement" to do it because he has provided a wonderful "material" life for me and the kids. We do not live paycheck to paycheck. We have a nice house and drive nice cars. He has met my PHYSICAL/MATERIAL/FINANCIAL needs, but does that give him the right to discard my EMOTIONAL need to trust him? I feel like he is on a slippery slope when he flirts with these women, he is going to put himself in a situation where he will have the opportunity to cheat, and he just might do it.....and I will never know about it.......and then he will start living this "double life" that so many men do.....Guys, give me some feedback......


He's cheating now, at least emotionally, and it WILL become physical at some point (if it hasn't already, and it probably has), with or without your "permission".


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> He does not view this electronic (and in-person) flirting as infidelity....


It doesn't matter if he considers it infidelity- it matters if YOU consider it infidelity.

He has been highly disrespectful to you. Telling you he wants to be with other woman, continuing to contact bank chick after you've asked him not to.

Look, I'm a guy. I have guy friends - 20s and 30s - that collect inappropriate pics of girl-friends. Bikini, neglige, birthday suits. It's almost like a game - get the chick to send them a pic. Ok got the bathing suit pic, now send the underwear pic, now send the naked pic. Does it mean they are cheating? No. But is it inappropriate? Yes! And there comes a time when it's time to grow up. Some of my friends have grown up, some have not, it's time for your husband to grow up.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

its called and emotional affair.... my sympathies to you, i know the pain 

i may be a woman but have been in your shoes... R only happens if the WS is truly sorry for what he is done and is willing to do anything to make it better... refriending her on fb after you told him it was a requirement to de-friend her? Hate to tell you but yea he not sorry for what hes done....hes still doing it now hes just more careful about it.....

oh and locking or hiding is phone.....baaaaad sign


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

> I was not happy about it but I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really don't want to be the jealous and insecure wife.


This is the #1 cause of mistakes made by a betrayed spouse when trying to confront an unfaithful spouse's behaviour. Women don't want to be "insecure" betrayed men don't want to be "controlling".

This fear stops the betrayed from taking the necessary steps to put an end to the cheating and put an end to the disrespect being thrown their way.

YOU HAVE GOOD REASON TO BE INSECURE. Upsetting your cheating husband when he's engaging in an affair should be the least of your concerns.

Your husband is having emotional affairs and probably hasn't stopped since you caught him two years ago. He just hid it better. 

He has no remorse and simply doesn't care. You're right, he feels entitled to cheat. Adding her back after she proved to be a problem in the marriage is proof of how nonchalant he is about it.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

unsure78 said:


> oh and locking or hiding is phone.....baaaaad sign


Yes this is the most disrespectful act yet.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

First of all, it doesn't matter at all that he tells you nothing physical happened. It's all part of the cheaters script that cheaters lie. It's what they do, so believe nothing that comes out of his mouth. 

Number 2. I'm a man, and the messages you found are not normal for a married man. Any type of communication with a female should be along the lines of anything he would feel comfortable saying with you present. In fact both of your facebook and email passwords should be shared with each other. My wife knows mine and I know hers. Your lives should be open books with each other.

Number 3. He's cheating on you. If not physically (which he likely is), then without a doubt emotionally. You need to stomp this out immediately. Firmly and in a determined way, you should file for divorce. He doesn't take you or your feelings seriously, so it's the only way to grab his attention. I don't care how much money he makes, you don't deserve to live like this, constantly on high alert for unfaithful behavior. If you don't respect yourself, who will?


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

I agree with all of the above, but I wanted to throw this out there...

You mention that he is meeting your needs in every way. Are you meeting his needs in every way? Do you know what his needs are? Not condoning one bit what he has done, but I am just playing devil's advocate from the 'guy' perspective like you asked.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Also, about the issue of him telling you he'd love to have sex with other women: Inappropriate, disrespectful and insensitive of him to tell you that.

However, as a man, yes, I see women all the time that I can't help think would be fun to fook. 

But I'm married and I can't do both. I can't have my wife, who I love, and have sex with others. I can't have my cake and eat it too. 

So I made a choice. Get married and have a family and stay loyal to my family or stay single and enjoy the variety, but not have a family. It's one or the other. Not both.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If my husband acted that way he'd be out on his ass. Seriously. I actually did kick him out when he did pretty much what yours is doing. Although when caught, mine didn't act like a jerk like yours is. If he had we wouldn't be in R today.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> It doesn't matter if he considers it infidelity- it matters if YOU consider it infidelity.


It matters what they both agree on as a boundary for infidelity (as this needs to be discussed and agreed upon, the bonus is not on one to set all the boundaries, they must be agreed upon). 

For the record I would consider it infidelity if it were inappropriate actions, behaviors, and pictures/ text.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> It matters what they both agree on as a boundary for infidelity (as this needs to be discussed and agreed upon, the bonus is not on one to set all the boundaries, they must be agreed upon).
> 
> For the record I would consider it infidelity if it were inappropriate actions, behaviors, and pictures/ text.


Fair enough but we can all agree that sexting and exchanging pics with someone other than your spouse is way beyond anyone's reasonable definition of boundaries. This is something that needs to be discussed? 

In any event, it's his behavior and treatment of OP after this revelation that is most despicable.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> *It matters what they both agree on as a boundary for infidelity (as this needs to be discussed and agreed upon, the bonus is not on one to set all the boundaries, they must be agreed upon) *
> 
> For the record I would consider it infidelity if it were inappropriate actions, behaviors, and pictures/ text.


Well, if they both don't agree on what the boundary for infidelity is then the marriage is doomed. It's not like she can change her feelings and come around to thinking that his behavior is okay. He's the one who has to get with the program and change his cheatin' ways.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> If my husband acted that way he'd be out on his ass. Seriously. I actually did kick him out when he did pretty much what yours is doing. Although when caught, mine didn't act like a jerk like yours is. If he had we wouldn't be in R today.


whatisheupto?- You say you don't want to be an insecure wife. The above shows a very secure wife, Hope, who knows what she will and won't tolerate.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I realize you want input from men, so I will say this and then back out:

Your husband seems to think that if he provides security, he is entitled to cheat. (And he is cheating.)

If you let him put you on the defensive, if you let him make you feel guilty and insecure with this half-baked rationale, then you need a reminder that you are living in the 21st century. This isn't 1820's London where it's socially expected for a woman to look the other way as long as she's being taken care of.

He's really FULL of it.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Your husband is wrong on so many accounts. Here is my suggestions:

1. Get tested for STD's. I am not joking on this.
2. Don't believe a word he says.
3. Get all your accounts in order. Get account numbers, names on the accounts, etc.
4. Go see an attorney. Don't tell your husband about any of this. And look at your options. Find out all you can about divorce, spousal support, child support, alimony, etc.
5. Start the 180, hard.
6. What are you willing to put up with in this marriage?
7. As far as family is concerned, do you think your husband is a good example for your children?


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> I was not happy about it but I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really don't want to be the jealous and insecure wife. Also, he has now locked his phone so I can't see what he does/has on it. I have since found out that they have continued to correspond electronically AND in person - she works at our bank and he makes the deposits there almost daily. Girls, I know what you are going to say - run for the hills. Get out now. .


You don't want to be a "jealous and insecure wife? I'm sorry, but he's given you plenty of reasons to be that way. At the very least he's in an EA, and I wouldn't doubt it was a full blown PA.

I'm not a woman, but here's my advice. Run for the hills, get out now!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If he knows what he is doing is wrong, disrespectful and hurtful, yet he can't or wont stop, he might need therapy. Or a divorce date at the local court.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I know you wanted male opinions, I am a woman, but reading this really made me feel bad for you, Especially the part where you say that your husband fantasizes about having sex with other women, and the fact that if you gave him the Okay he would have sex with other women too.

If my husband said this to me, I would be totally devastated, and i really really would seriously wonder if i wanted to stay married to a man like this.

I love my husband with all my heart, there is nothing on this earth i would not do for him, but this, him telling me would be enough for me to walk away even tho it would break my heart and destroy a part of me i would know that he just did not love back the way i loved him, I mean i do not say this to hurt, but i cant see how your husband can love you all the things you have said the pictures, the flirting, the phone, all of it.

Are you sure he has not cheated on you, How can you be sure. We all have a different concept on cheating, I call what your husband has been doing a form of cheating, but that is my opinion.

16 years a long time to be with someone, and you have children, so i know its hard for you, but how many more years are you prepared to go on like this for, wondering if hes being faithful, if hes texting other people, and nobody should have to put up with this to keep the family together, It seems to me he treats you like this because your allowing him to, he knows you will give him chance after chance, and he pretty much does not care about your feelings at all.

So you have a nice house, nice cars, and provides for you so that gives him entitlement.... Like hell it should.

My husband provides for our family to, We also have nice things, but he does not think hes entitled to go out and do what he wants, he does these things because were a family, he wanted to marry me have a family and settle down.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

Oblivious2678 said:


> I agree with all of the above, but I wanted to throw this out there...
> 
> You mention that he is meeting your needs in every way. Are you meeting his needs in every way? Do you know what his needs are? Not condoning one bit what he has done, but I am just playing devil's advocate from the 'guy' perspective like you asked.


I am glad you asked that. For the past 2 years, I have taken a really hard look at myself and MY actions in this marriage, in order to answer that very question - what needs am I not satisfying that he feels the need to do these things behind my back? Yes, 2 years ago our sex life wasn't the greatest - for either one of us. After I found out about the FIRST woman, I knew I could either (1) leave him or (2) stay with him and improve our sex life if that is what need I wasn't satisfying. So I chose #2 and we definitely did new things sexually and I think it helped bring us closer together. Obviously it wasn't enough to make him change his ways...as I have now found out 2 years later. As for his other needs, let's see, I get up at 5AM every morning and work out so that I can keep myself physically attractive (both for my own self-esteem and for him). Then I cook his and the kids breakfast (he does not cook nor does he clean). He leaves for the office and I get the kids to school and then come back to my home office where I run the financial side of our business (I am a CPA). I work about 30 hours a week, so not FULL time, but I do my part to help keep our business running on top of laundry, cooking, cleaning and all the other stuff we wives/moms do (kudos to ALL the guys out there that DO help their wives with these things - mine does not). I have dinner ready at 6:00 most nights except when the kids have dance/gymnastics/piano, etc. When I am not cooking that evening, I still make sure my family is fed one way or another (take-out, leaving him a salad in the fridge, etc.) After dinner, he sits on the couch and watches TV while I clean up the kitchen, help the kids with homework, pack their lunches for the next day, make sure they get their baths and that clothes are picked out for school the next day, etc. I am not trying to be a smarta** but I think I am meeting his needs as a co-business owner, wife and mother to his children. But that is certainly a fair question to ask and one that I have tried to consider as I work my way through this.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

Cubby said:


> whatisheupto?- You say you don't want to be an insecure wife. The above shows a very secure wife, Hope, who knows what she will and won't tolerate.


Yes Cubby, I agree with you. She definitely has a backbone. I am really trying to get one myself! I have seen so many marriages crumble around me because of "knee-jerk" reactions and leaving. So many times I have seen anger overtake all sense of being able to rationally work out marital problems. So instead of immediately "throwing him out on his ass" I am trying desperately to keep my children protected from this by just coping with it and trying to take time to really figure out what I need to do. If I threaten to leave him, I MUST follow through on the threat if he does not straighten up, but I must be ready to take that step. I am trying to figure that out now, hence my post to this website. By the way, I really appreciate your earlier comments, as well as those from others. Getting perspective from objective people who don't know me personally is quite helpful. The things I am reading here are definitely helping me sort through my pain and what I need to do to keep from living in a perpetual state of "what-is-he-up-to-now". Thank you for taking the time to help me.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> I threaten to leave him, I MUST follow through on the threat if he does not straighten up, but I must be ready to take that step.


SO TRUE, do NOT set a boundary and consequence that you are not willing to follow through on. Not following through just makes things much worse but sometimes it takes a HUGE jolt to make them wake up. What is going to show him what he's putting at risk? That's why so many suggest tossing him out and letting him feel the consequences of his behavior. Without consequences nothing changes.

What about going to a lawyer to discuss your options and letting your husband know that it's a direct consequence of his behavior. Let him know that if things don't change, you will choose the best option for you and your children and likely that option isn't allowing him to continue to disrespect you and set a bad example for his children. 

I'm so sorry for what you're going through and I wish you luck.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Also playing the devil's advocate, I see that you are doing lots of the chores for him, but if actions aren't his love language then these actions mean little to him. Do you call or text him during the day to show you are interested and care? Do you do things to touch and be with him? 

Your life as you describe it sounds a lot like the routine my family is in, and although I see my wife doings lots of actions for me and the family, I don't see her doing things for me emotionally and to show the love, other than the occasional sex. What time do you spend together just relaxing or being a couple, like you did when you were dating (as I don't see this in your description of what you do for him)? Please don't take these as challenges or criticisms of your love, because if you do them then they have merit and should be mentioned as well. 

Since he is doing the pictures and sexting, it appears as this type of emotional interaction is something he needs, wants, and enjoys. I know it kills me that my wife has never done that for me (says she doesn't have time, doesn't know what to say, etc) yet these barriers were never there for the OMs when she was cheating on me. I did lots of the same actions you do for your family, and thought it enough but realized how it hurt when she never reciprocated with actions or the special messages and conversations she did with others. 

(Nothing hurts worse than to find your partner made time to do these special things for others and yet continue to tell you they don't have the same time to do them for you, while you are playing dutiful and responsible parent and spouse for them and making the time for them. Giving without reciprocation is the most selfless act and when they are selfish it hurts. )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Cubby said:


> Well, if they both don't agree on what the boundary for infidelity is then the marriage is doomed. It's not like she can change her feelings and come around to thinking that his behavior is okay. He's the one who has to get with the program and change his cheatin' ways.


I agree with this, except just as she can't be expected to just change her ways and thinking neither can he be expected to change his. Morals and values aren't something that people can just get. They are cultivated and learned over time and if they aren't willing to work on a boundary they both agree on, then yes this marriage is doomed, as is any with the same issues. Monogamy and other values and beliefs are not something that all people can adhere to. Just because someone follows the practices for a time doesn't mean they agree with or value them. 

This is why we have lots of people that come out of the closet after years of living a hidden (or possibly double) life that they considered a lie. They weren't happy trying to live their life as peg A in Slot A as everyone thinks they should.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

How long ya gonna put up with his bs? I didn't notice if you have children. Do you have a job and can support yourself if the worst happens. If you can, let him know you're tired of the nonsense and he either cuts out the adolescent behavior, unlocks his phone, and unfriends the other babe from his FB page, or you're seriously considering the big D.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Sorry, I'm also a woman but here is my 2 cents:

What if you said " Ok hubby, I understand. I also need to feel the ego boost from other men, so I'm going to sign up to some dating/hookup websites and just chat, send pictures, nothing more. Just for fun, like you! And, yeah, if I happen to run into one of the guys or meet them to have coffee, it's just for fun, ya know, for the ego boost"!

Trying to bully, threat, or plead won't get him to stop. He clearly lacks empathy in a major way, and I'm mincing my words here.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

< Male perspective>

Find yourself a good steel toe capped working boot or shoe, put it on and kick this clown right in the butt untill he disappears down the drive. Then, seek legal advice and set about letting him and his bit on the side have some papers with the word divorce wirrten in. You may want to let "her" partner know whats going on as well.

This is certainly an EA with PA stamped in a few places.
He has certainly disrespected you - thats all over your post, he has acted in a manner outside the boundries of faithful to you and you only vows and having refriended her on FB (God I hate that thing) I suggest he seeks to rub your face in what the dog leaves in the garden.

This is not a joke in any way. Its insulting. This is the type of behaviour that people should NOT accept from the word go. Forgive by all means but as soon as he feels youve moved forward he's going to have ago again.
Large boundries are needed and if they are broken the the person who breaks them has to take FULL responsibility.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Cubby said:


> First of all, it doesn't matter at all that he tells you nothing physical happened. It's all part of the cheaters script that cheaters lie. It's what they do, so believe nothing that comes out of his mouth.
> 
> Number 2. I'm a man, and the messages you found are not normal for a married man. Any type of communication with a female should be along the lines of anything he would feel comfortable saying with you present. In fact both of your facebook and email passwords should be shared with each other. My wife knows mine and I know hers. Your lives should be open books with each other.
> 
> Number 3. He's cheating on you. If not physically (which he likely is), then without a doubt emotionally. You need to stomp this out immediately. Firmly and in a determined way, you should file for divorce. He doesn't take you or your feelings seriously, so it's the only way to grab his attention. I don't care how much money he makes, you don't deserve to live like this, constantly on high alert for unfaithful behavior. If you don't respect yourself, who will?


First things first - email passwords, FB, cell phones, etc. - those should all be freely available to each partner. It doesn't have to be an agreed upon rule, it just shouldn't be hidden, or locked. That is always red flag #1, whether somebody thinks their partner is up to something or not. My wife knows all my passwords etc. Not because she asked to have them, but because she's seen me type them in, or she's needed a password to log in to my FB or cell phone or whatever when I've needed her to. Simple. The ONLY reason anything is password protected and hidden from one's spouse is because they are hiding something. There's no excuse your husband could give you that would even remotely make sense or be justified.

Second - your husband's actions over all are NOT justified in the slightest. But, as a husband myself who's needs are generally not being met, that is likely where he is getting his own justification from.

Straight up, I love my wife. We have our differences when it comes to intimacy and sex. My needs are only barely being met in those areas, and it's not for a lack of communication on my part. But I don't use that to justify seeking what I'm missing elsewhere, nor will I ever.

There's a very fine line between thinking of yourself and not just your partner in your relationship, and being selfish. I think of myself, AS WELL AS, my wife, and as a result, she makes an honest effort to meet my needs. Your husband has crossed that line. Maybe he HAS communicated to you what he's missing, I don't know. If he has, and repeatedly, and constructively, and you haven't budged, then perhaps that's all the justification he needs.

Bottom line is, it's not YOUR fault, at all. However, if he has communicated to you about what he needs (and it's not out of the ordinary) and you haven't moved in that direction, it certainly doesn't help things. Follow?

My wife knows I won't cheat because she's not meeting my needs. However, she does know that I won't stand for at least a minimal effort. (and nothing that puts her out, so to speak. I don't expect her to change who she is, just realize that in order to maintain a healthy relationship in all aspects, she, just like I, need to make the effort.)

It's not your fault. But I do tend to think that in most of these cases, it's as easy as keeping your partner happy. Happy wife, happy life also applies to husbands.

No matter what, though, he's an ass.


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

It definitely sounds like you are doing your part. I would recommend reading His Needs, Her Needs, but I think he would be willing to do something like that. He has an ego to uphold.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

Update for you guys -- first of all, thanks so much for ALL the comments above. I had no idea how comforting it would be to hear feedback on my situation (both negative and positive) because it has made me think about things I have not considered.

Aside from that, Chubby, you will be glad to hear that I got a "backbone" this morning!! I found a way to get into his phone, and BAM found a FB message where he invited himself over to her house LAST NIGHT!!!!! So he was there for about an hour and a half. I ran into our bedroom, woke him up and nearly threw the phone at his head. I told him I was done with him, and that I knew he had been to her house. He said "how do you know that?" I held up his phone and he was pretty shocked I had gotten into it. I also read a text between him and his co-worker showing he stayed late after work yesterday because she was staying late. Quite the playah isn't he?!? Damn this is hard, but somehow I feel better, in the midst of all this sadness, that I finally stood up to him. BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


WOW. What does he want a Bozo button or something for that revelation???


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> I found a way to get into his phone, and BAM found a FB message where he invited himself over to her house LAST NIGHT!!!!! So he was there for about an hour and a half.... I also read a text between him and his co-worker showing he stayed late after work yesterday because she was staying late. Quite the playah isn't he?!? ...BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


Good for you for growing the backbone!

You need to stop having sex with him right now. And get yourself tested for STD's, including a Pap with HPV test. Because the locked phone/coverup behavior is usually not done for the purposes of secret messages, it's done for secret sex. You should not believe a word he says now, and not for the next few weeks - he's going to be in CYA mode all the way.

There's a good book by Shirley Glass, NOT Just Friends, that describes how what you have evidence for was cheating. It's slippery slope stuff, crossing boundaries, that given the opportunity too often goes physical - and that hour and a half was probably not a get-together for playing cards, no matter what he says.

Stay strong. Get tough, stand tall, do the 180. Good luck, and hang in there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

whatisheupto? said:


> BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


*cough* Bullsh*t!


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> Good for you for growing the backbone!
> 
> You need to stop having sex with him right now. And get yourself tested for STD's, including a Pap with HPV test. Because the locked phone/coverup behavior is usually not done for the purposes of secret messages, it's done for secret sex. You should not believe a word he says now, and not for the next few weeks - he's going to be in CYA mode all the way.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Yep. Good for you, whatisheupto? for standing up to him and letting him know that, NO, you won't tolerate his crap.

Of course by now, you know not to believe anything he says, right? It's a cliche on TAM, but it's true: Cheaters lie and liars cheat. In fact it goes further. Cheaters' lies are like Oscar-winning performances, so don't fall for what he says, no matter how convincing he seems. He physically cheated and almost positively he has been for quite a while. What a jerk.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

whatisheupto? said:


> Update for you guys -- first of all, thanks so much for ALL the comments above. I had no idea how comforting it would be to hear feedback on my situation (both negative and positive) because it has made me think about things I have not considered.
> 
> Aside from that, Chubby, you will be glad to hear that I got a "backbone" this morning!! I found a way to get into his phone, and BAM found a FB message where he invited himself over to her house LAST NIGHT!!!!! So he was there for about an hour and a half. I ran into our bedroom, woke him up and nearly threw the phone at his head. I told him I was done with him, and that I knew he had been to her house. He said "how do you know that?" I held up his phone and he was pretty shocked I had gotten into it. I also read a text between him and his co-worker showing he stayed late after work yesterday because she was staying late. Quite the playah isn't he?!? Damn this is hard, but somehow I feel better, in the midst of all this sadness, that I finally stood up to him. BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


I have been there.... actually how i caught my exh when i was checking his phone in the middle of the night...lol honey I did the same thing and woke his a$$ up...

DO NOT BELIEVE HIM... its trickle truth... he only telling you enough... i know you want to believe him, its your husband, but if he was meeting her its undoubtedly gone physical


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

THE text looks like it is an EA not a PA. 1.5 hours with her at her house DOES.

STILL cheating tho.

Locking phone: BAD juju. Fortunately I know someone... Oh Jooooohhhhnnnn

John is going to give you instructions IF you wish to uncover everything on the phone side.

I handle the rest of the intel side IF you wish.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> THE text looks like it is an EA not a PA.
> 
> STILL cheating tho.
> 
> Locking phone: BAD juju. Fortunately I know someone... Oh Jooooohhhhnnnn


C'mon weightlifter....the text said he went to her house for an hour and a half....and this is after her finding texts about him joking about fooking her.....if that's not shouting out PHYSICAL AFFAIR, I don't know what is!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Cubby said:


> C'mon weightlifter....the text said he went to her house for an hour and a half....and this is after her finding texts about him joking about fooking her.....if that's not shouting out PHYSICAL AFFAIR, I don't know what is!


I missed that one. Sorry I amended.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

#takingabeatingfromcubby involving a 2x4 

WITH NAILS ON THE END!

BTW OP I paged John our Phone guru for you. If you want to undelete and get to the bottom. Get his phone back and do what he says.

BTW need phone model and carrier ahead of time will allow him to give you a head start.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> I missed that one. Sorry I amended.


I kinda thought you might've missed it, cuz you're too good to misinterpret the evidence!

whatisheupto?, pay attention to weightlifter. He's the best at what he does here.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP. I handle the logistics, var, timing, statistics, hard evidence end.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

One can assume he wasn't over her house just for tea. Keep searching the phone for more evidence if you feel you need to, but that's enough for me.
Throw his @$$ out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> Update for you guys -- first of all, thanks so much for ALL the comments above. I had no idea how comforting it would be to hear feedback on my situation (both negative and positive) because it has made me think about things I have not considered.
> 
> Aside from that, Chubby, you will be glad to hear that I got a "backbone" this morning!! I found a way to get into his phone, and BAM found a FB message where he invited himself over to her house LAST NIGHT!!!!! So he was there for about an hour and a half. I ran into our bedroom, woke him up and nearly threw the phone at his head. I told him I was done with him, and that I knew he had been to her house. He said "how do you know that?" I held up his phone and he was pretty shocked I had gotten into it. I also read a text between him and his co-worker showing he stayed late after work yesterday because she was staying late. Quite the playah isn't he?!? Damn this is hard, but somehow I feel better, in the midst of all this sadness, that I finally stood up to him. BTW, he INSISTS he did not have sex with either of them and that he has not, to date, cheated on me - at least not physically.


I'm here, called to action by the TAM Infidel Buster's network to assist you in recalling the certain now-deleted tracks your WH has THOUGHT would be henceforth gone forever from your eyes. But he can't hide from his actions. 

We all love how this neat little digital devices have simplified our lives...even for the cheater, it simplifies their rendezvous and allows the cheater to cloak his/her actions sometimes for YEARS. But the dirty little secret is that whether it be a laptop, a desktop, an iPhone or an Android device, when the user hits "delete" it actually does not delete that which was selected for deletion. 

Think of a piece of data on a phone existing somewhere on its drive. Liken this piece of information as your house. It exists. We all know that because, like the house, we can see it with our eyes. Now think of HOW you can get that piece of data to show up on your phone's screen. How does it know from where to pull it out of its storage place on the drive? It does so by its digital address (simplicity here). It's address is the same as your house's address. If you forget your address at your house, does the house cease to exist? Nor does the piece of information on the phone. Only address to it has been deleted. The MEAT of that info is STILL on the device. It's my job to lead you to extract that info. 

And it can be done by a lay person in such things. Your WH has been scrambling to delete all tracks since you outed him. Listen to user weightlifter regarding shutting up, eyes open, ears open, mouth shut. 

Now tell me...does he have an Android or an iPhone? iPhone is easiest to extract, but a WH who will tell you that he's ended it all, certainly will be comfortable handing over his phone to you since he already "cleaned" out all of the incriminating information. Get that phone. Do whatever you have to do, but GET IT.

If Apple, do you have his Apple ID and password? you'll need it. But you won't need his phone physically in your hands. If it's Android, you'll need physical custody of it to get the info.

Note that the tips I'll give you not only will allow you to see deleted texts, but will allow you to see his web history, search history, current undeleted texts, and his facebook and instagram usage as well. So you will be able to tell what he's doing every day without having to question him about it. 

You'll turn the tables on him, but you must do so without him ever knowing it. He will use your trust in him as a weapon against you. Whatever he tells you, you should be able to verify. 

Let me know what device he's using and I'll put up the instructions to you. Take a deep breath. It's gonna be an unpleasant ride.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

^^^^
Our phone guy


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The chances he hasn't had sex are so infinitesimally small they do not compute.

The chances he will admit to it if you don't have incontrovertible proof are also about that small.

Know that he is LYING.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

He doesn't deserve to be even called a husband - he's hardly behaving like one. 

Sounds as though you can afford to D. People like him don't change easily if at all. D him and then he can live out his fantasies. 

Better to be on your own than this. Sorry but he sounds like a chauvinistic jerk. 

How do you feel about him? 
Could you walk away? 
If so do and take his sorry ass to the cleaners.

And yes, take WL and John's advice, gather up your evidence, get yourself to a lawyer and get D papers and hit him with everything in one fell swoop. 

Also 'out' that POSOW - does she have a husband/bf?


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

********** said:


> Also 'out' that POSOW - does she have a husband/bf?


No she is not married. She has 2 kids.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

********** said:


> How do you feel about him?
> Could you walk away?
> If so do and take his sorry ass to the cleaners.


I love him but what he has done to me has forever changed the way I feel about him. 2 years ago, I would have said "I just can't live without him". After "thinking about it" for 2 years, and now after being "knocked down" second time, I am beginning to realize that, indeed, I CAN live without him. It won't be easy on me or the kids but I CAN do it. Thanks for your comments.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

john1068 said:


> Let me know what device he's using and I'll put up the instructions to you. Take a deep breath. It's gonna be an unpleasant ride.


Hi John! Wow you know your stuff don't you?!? He has an HTC One. He unlocked it for me yesterday in a bid to win back my trust.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> Hi John! Wow you know your stuff don't you?!? He has an HTC One. He unlocked it for me yesterday in a bid to win back my trust.


After it was scrubbed clean, I'm sure.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, OP. Stay strong. Vent here if you need to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

But john knows how to UNSCRUB it


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> But john knows how to UNSCRUB it


I can't hit "Like" on my phone... But "Like"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

whatisheupto? said:


> We have been married for 16 years. A few years ago, I caught my husband texting another woman and found naked pictures of her on his phone. She was local and I met her once. I also found very inappropriate pictures of women he had never met.


This in itself is cheating BTW. The intention is there whether he had a PA or not. 


> Fast-forward almost 2 years later. . . He got another woman to send him a picture of her in a bikini and showed the pic to his buddy to say "see I am sleeping with her on the side". Then he proceeded to text to her things like "I told him we have been f***ing for months".


So he is a serial cheater getting his kicks in this way, a husband and father of 2 little ones. 


> And she came back with "no, tell him we have been f***ing for years!". . .


Can you imagine sending that to someone's husband? What a piece of work she is and how would she feel if this was done to her???


> I Made him un-friend her on FB. Allowed him to explain his way thru it and accepted her apology when she called me to say she was sorry and that it was just a joke. The minute after he found out she apologized to me, he re-friended her on FB. I was not happy about it but I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really don't want to be the jealous and insecure wife.


You are NOT a jealous & insecure wife. Husbands do NOT do that or have a woman he has been engaging like that with as a FB friend. The fact that he refriended her just shows that he couldn't care less about you or his marriage, or his kids for that matter. No father should be behaving like that. He also thinks you will stay and put up with whatever he dishes out, especially as this is the second time this has happened. 


> Also, he has now locked his phone so I can't see what he does/has on it. I have since found out that they have continued to correspond electronically AND in person - she works at our bank and he makes the deposits there almost daily.


Has he indeed, obviously because there was stuff on his phone he didn't want you to see, no doubt corresponding with his hag.


> He says that he wants the attention of other women so that he can feel an ego boost of sorts. He has made no secret of the fact that he fantasizes about having sex with other women. If I would give him permission, he would do it.


I can't tell you how mad it makes me that he said that to you, his wife. It's as if he said "Honey, I want to have you at home with the kids but I also want to be a single man and explore my fantasies and I would like to have sex with other women." Ask him how your 11 year old would feel if he/she knew Dad said that to Mum. I'm not saying to tell your 11 year old of course but you should run it past the father to show him how hideous his behaviour is. 


> We do not live paycheck to paycheck. We have a nice house and drive nice cars.


Quietly get your legal and financial ducks lined up because regardless of the outcome you need to do that now for your sanity at least. Go quiet on him and snoop. He will have deleted his phone stuff so I wouldn't pay much attention to him saying you can look at his phone. Take WL and John's advice - retrieve the deleted stuff. I did, it's not hard. 


> I feel like he is on a slippery slope when he flirts with these women, he is going to put himself in a situation where he will have the opportunity to cheat, and he just might do it.....and I will never know about it.......and then he will start living this "double life" that so many men do.


You have every right to think this, he is a serial cheater and he has even told you he wants to for godsakes. He is an abusive man, all of this is emotional abuse and an assault on you, your children and your marriage. Tell him that. Ask him who the hell does he think is is and how dare he behave in this way. That is the way you have to think. 
Will he change? It would mean a total turnaround for him, not easy. 
All I know is that with an abusive husband like this you would be far better to be on your own. 
And tell him that just because it's electronic, i.e. texts and emails does not change what he is doing a whit. It is exactly the same as if he was telling them in person. He needs to get that into his thick head. And what about the woman he sees in the bank daily? So it's not all 'electronic'. 

I'm sure he wouldn't like you sending naked photos of yourself to a man. Take a naked photo of yourself on your phone, show it to him and tell him you are going to send it to the buddy he was telling all the stuff about his women to and see what he says.   . You needn't send it of course  but you need to fight fire with fire. 

I am so sorry he has subjected you to all this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Do a 180 and keep feeling strong. He will undoubtedly be thrown by this since he's been able to talk you around until now.

Enough should be enough at this point. I hope you will stand your ground. He has cheated, lied, and generally disrespected you.

Do not back down. It is something he is counting on and is the worst move you can make. No matter how hard, don't back down.

Now he reaps what he has sown. He has treated you very badly. Stop taking it.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> Do a 180 and keep feeling strong. He will undoubtedly be thrown by this since he's been able to talk you around until now.
> 
> Enough should be enough at this point. I hope you will stand your ground. He has cheated, lied, and generally disrespected you.
> 
> ...


So reassuring to hear this today. I am feeling strong right now and I finally feel like I have the upper hand. When I feel my strength fade I am going to come back and read your post (and many of the others) again and again. The support I am receiving here means so much to me - it is quite empowering.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

Need some more feedback...As of 3 days ago, I have told him that I am not willing to stay in the marriage anymore. He is saying he will do anything I ask (therapy, etc) if I will stay in the marriage. I have not agreed to anything. I called a family meeting (via e-mail) with his 2 brothers, their wives, and his mother in order to tell them that we are separating. He BEGGED me not to tell them. He says it is too soon and I am too angry and that it is a personal family matter we need to deal with privately. Reluctantly I cancelled the meeting (that day I really was ANGRY and I still am so the timing may not have been the best) but now they all know something is majorly wrong between the 2 of us. Before my e-mail to them, they had NO IDEA anything was wrong. I am tired of dealing with this ordeal alone. The only confidant I have is my therapist. I do not have a "go-to" girlfriend in whom I can confide. I am tired of having to schedule an appointment, wait for that day to come, and pay $160 in order to talk about my feelings. I am ready to have his family support him (and I think they will support me too) as we work our way through this. They are a very close-knit family and I love my 2 sister-in-laws dearly. The only reason I have not leaned on them in the past is because I don't want them to feel like they are in the middle by keeping our situation a secret from their husbands. I can't ask them to keep things from their husbands so I don't want to put them in that position. Any thoughts from anyone on the above?

Furthermore, we have not discussed anything since that awful morning 3 days ago. Here's where you guys are going to think I am NUTS...I have told him we are separated, but he is staying in our guestroom. I am ok with it ONLY because of keeping normalcy for my 6 year old and 11 year old -- they really have no clue anything is wrong right now. We are functioning as a completely normal family (except for him sleeping in the guest room so obviously no sex). I cooked the family dinner last night (including him), I did his laundry yesterday, and we cleaned the leaves out of the garage this morning because it was a MESS in there! OK before you guys say "whoa girl - you are LOSING THAT BACKBONE YOU GOT A FEW DAYS AGO!!!!", let me continue. There is a monumental "talk" on the horizon for us. I am gong to tell him that we ARE going to separate. And when that happens, it is going to go public. Here's is what I think he is going to suggest...we have a "man cave" outside in our detached garage. The downstairs kitchen/sitting area are finished. He is going to say that he can have the upstairs finished in a month or so (so he will have a place to sleep). I am VERY MUCH OPPOSED to this, because he will then have free reign to do whatever he wants and bring over whomever he wants right under my NOSE!! But yet he will still be close to the kids (which is the main argument he will use - keep everything as normal as possible for the kids by having him a stone's throw away from the house and kids instead of across town). I don't think I can FORCE him to move away from here can I? It is very important for my kids to sleep in their own beds here at home EVERY NIGHT! So that is the only reason I would consider the detached garage living arrangement, but I also think it makes things too convenient for him. Thoughts?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've taken the first steps, but you are still letting him orchestrate things.

What cheaters hate is 1) losing control of the spouse, i.e., no longer being able to control the information or the spouse's decisions, and 2) consequences.

If you want a better life for yourself, a life in which another person isn't arrogant enough to think that he has the right to decide your happiness, then you need to take control of your own life & this means both not letting him gaslight you anymore or talk you into softening the consequences for him so that his life remains OK while you have been devastated.

Letting him have his new life under your nose is not a reasonable consequence for his cheating.

Take control. It's your life.

One thing that infidelity experts strongly recommend is exposing the affair(s). Your politician WH needs to be exposed, as do his homewrecking OW's. 

Reinstate the family meeting and tell his family what he has been doing. Bring proof, written evidence that you have backed up and stored in a safe place. Don't let people guilt you into feeling bad about the exposure. Don't let them turn it back on you.

See a lawyer ASAP. It's the weekend, so your only recourse at the moment might be a phone consult (one free hour) just to get the lay of the land. This will both empower you and clarify things for you, especially regarding living arrangements. In many cases, a formal separation agreement or divorce filing will spell out that your WH cannot live on the property the way you suggest. I wouldn't let that happen in any event. He has already gotten his way by intimidating you this whole time.

Just remember that he is a bully and you don't have to take it.

When he tries to negotiate with you, stand strong. Make decisions for yourself, not deals with him. Tell him, "I'm not going to agree to anything with you because you are a liar and I can't trust that you will keep your word."

And please don't believe that this hasn't gone physical. They ALWAYS say that. It's part of the shtick.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Follow this as much as you can. It will help you maintain your resolve and to build your mental/emotional strength:

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I wouldn't have believed in a million years that my husband had sex with someone outside of our marriage, because he was someone who had been cheated on prior to our marriage and was someone who talked often about how much he hated liars. But he did have sex with another woman and he lied to cover it up.

In your case, your husband has made it very clear he wants to sleep with other women. I know you want to believe him when he says he hasn't but really, the odds are overwhelming that he did. You need to think about this in terms of his probably having had sex outside of marriage. You have some evidence, but imagine all the stuff that's still unknown to you! 

This arrangement you're talking about would be a nice set up for him to have women coming and going right near your house, and your kids - who are NOT stupid - would be aware of that going on. Even if it's late at night, come on - the kids will KNOW. Do you want that?

You don't have to decide right now if you want to divorce him, but if you want him to stop cheating, you have to expose him. It's the ONLY way. You can't "make" him do anything, but you can get legal advice and get the family to help put pressure on him to move out. When they learn about the way he's been behaving, there will probably be family pressure on him to get out. You can agree with him about this much: yes, you are very angry, so you won't make a decision right away about divorcing him. But you do want the family meeting and you do want the separation because you won't tolerate his behavior. It's no way for a husband to behave, and you respect yourself too much to put up with it.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You've taken the first steps, but you are still letting him orchestrate things.
> 
> What cheaters hate is 1) losing control of the spouse, i.e., no longer being able to control the information or the spouse's decisions, and 2) consequences.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Wow Whatisheupto. GO GIRL! Now you are talking! 

Firstly read the wise AlteDame's post over and over again. That is the headspace you have to get into and stay in. Believe me she is wise and a lot wiser than me.  

You have taken the first step. It will be hard to follow through - make no mistake about that but the rewards are great. Your 2 children will be so much happier when Mom is OK again. They are young but believe me kids of any age sense when something is up with Mom because that bond is the strongest one there is. This is for THEM too. Most of all you owe it to yourself. You sound like a fantastic lady, a great wife & Mom and remember that too - you deserve the best. The way you have been living is no way to live at the mercy of a schmuck like your H. 

Brilliant idea to inform his family. Don't hold back either, give them the full truth. The EASIEST way to do that is to print out the first post you wrote. It's all there. Make a copy for each of them, call a meeting and hand each of them a copy. You will probably hold back some if you do it verbally and if you do all this you need to do it well, for yourself.

He has been abusing you for too long and you will be weakened by that in your resolve. You are used to giving in to him. Standing up to him may be the hardest thing you have ever had to do because as AlteDame says even now he is trying to get it on his bizarre terms where he lives under your roof and will most likely get angrier as it sinks in that you are standing up to him. So he may well have women come around and will throw it in your face as in "Well, you are the one who wanted this." I was bullied by my first H and believe me I know how they operate. 

It will be messy Whatisheupto, make no mistake about that. There is no such thing as a clean break. You will have to accept that if he lives elsewhere the kids will have to spend time with him and stay overnight. Is he a good Dad? If so you need not have concerns about when they are with him. He will have to understand that for the kids' sake, in the early days he must not have any women around. He will have enough time to on the nights they are not there. Hopefully he thinks enough of his kids to do that. 

Write scripts for yourself to say to him when he does his bully tactics and believe me he will. He has been doing it for a long time. Say things like, "Now you can play out your fantasies, after all you have been telling me about it for years. Now you can have sex with other women but not under my roof. I told you for years that I wouldn't entertain that." Honestly if you write out the scripts it will be a lot easier for you because your emotions will be running high. 

Out that POSOW in the bank. Does she have a H or bf? Tell him. Your H has been pretending to everyone that he is the world's best husband while torturing you, the mother of his children who adore her and it's time his chickens came home to roost. Also if you do R it will be much easier if everyone knows because he will have all the more reason to keep his nose clean if nothing else. And you need their onsite support. Posters on here can only do so much but do keep posting because we are all behind you. You are a sane and rational person and this is all down to him. 

In the meantime I wouldn't do all the housework as you seem to have been doing, cooking dinner, cleaning out the leaves with him. Tell him that he needs to help with the chores, cook dinner, do the laundry and so on because you are not his housekeeper and this is the 21st century.

I have taken the time to do a long post and sorry but I do tend to do them anyway  because I get so mad when I see BS being humiliated and treated so badly.   

As you go through with this you will get stronger and stronger. Instead of going over and over it with your IC, keep going but tell him/her they must help you to stand up for yourself, to give you strategies for standing up to him. Get your money's worth because that's what you need right now.

Hang in there girl. Better times are coming as you extricate yourself from this abusive situation. Also snoop, his phone bills, emails and credit cards. You need to know if it went PA. In a way it doesn't matter if it didn't because he has been telling you he wants to anyway. Please read Weightlifter's post for instructions on how to VAR his car. He will be revealing this to OW if there is one. 

Lawyer up of course, everything, the house, your finances, child custody and what to expect if you D. If you threaten D you need to sound serious. 

So girl you have plenty to do and doing all this will give you emotional strength. 

All the best. **********.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> But john knows how to UNSCRUB it


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
John1068 that is.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

********** said:


> ....
> 
> Write scripts for yourself to say to him when he does his bully tactics and believe me he will. He has been doing it for a long time. Say things like, "Now you can play out your fantasies, after all you have been telling me about it for years. Now you can have sex with other women but not under my roof. I told you for years that I wouldn't entertain that." Honestly if you write out the scripts it will be a lot easier for you because your emotions will be running high.
> 
> ...


Writing things down and having them handy when you talk to people about this - your WH, family, friends, lawyers, counselors - is a great way to keep your focus and resolve. It's very easy to be flustered when you have to talk about something so difficult and painful & having it written and available can help tremendously.

********** is 100% right. Do some more snooping. When you find out the greater extent of this, you will be more determined than ever to stand up for yourself.

Stay on here. We will give you as much strength and support as we can.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

We talked at length today. I told him we have to figure out how to separate. He does not want to separate and still does not want his family to know. We went back over many issues in our marriage. Of the 16 years we have been married, he told me that he was sexually unsatisfied for the first 14. So he believes the naked pictures/texting was about getting the attention he wasn't getting from me. I told him he should have addressed that with me a long time ago and he said "I DID!" But I have no memory of him doing anything other than complain. Still standing firm but he layed it on thick today....he is still staying in the guestroom.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Rewriting the marital history to justify betrayals is 100% part of the cheater's script. 

Don't let this sway you!

Read some threads here. You will see this line over and over and over again:

WS: I've been miserable for years & it's your fault.

BS: News to me....How is it that you never told me? What a coincidence that I hear you've been miserable all this time just when I bust you for cheating.

This is how they give themselves permission and manage to live with themselves.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

This isn't only meant foe Whatisheupto, but everyone here. I just happen to be on this thread.

Why on earth do people not believe these affairs are not physical? This is the fourth one of these threads vie read that there is a question on physical intimacy. 

Adults have sex. It's what we do. We can flirt a little before and text a little after, but come on people, sex is happening.

It doesn't take long to have sex, nor much effort. It actually takes more effort to text and make up conversation. 

I just wanted to interject to anyone that is confused or says a WS is in "the fog", that the fog has spread.....

The longer one stays in denial listening to the WS's silly lies, the easier it is going to be to fold in and rug sweep. 

It's just so sad that most OP can get this far but can't see a PA when it's presented every which way possible.

Just a minor vent, not against Whatisheupto, just shaking my head at the end of my night.

And, yes, he's a cheater, get a lawyer and turn a deaf ear to him. He didn't give a Sh!t about your needs and now he is crying. Tough Sh!t, loser.


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## Tasty (Mar 3, 2014)

I am a man and I say my thoughts. Your husband is 'munching' this woman...and others too! Emotional and physical cheating are same because there is always a meeting point. 

If a man could joke about sex with a lady and the lady returns the joke (or vice versa), then they are doing it...or about to.

The case with your husband is that he is so unrepentant. Why did he refriend her on FB? Why did he lock his phone to keep you away?
Why is he involved with other women on phones doing what he knows you disapprove?

The next time you post a follow-up, it may be that they were seen together somewhere private and he would say it was nothing.

Have another talk with him and ask him to respect you (and himself) and cut those inappropriate and immoral exchanges.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Of course he doesn't want his family to know, that's what they do, try to protect themselves, not you. I didn't out my WH to his family the 2nd time, I didn't want his 85 year old Dad to know and his one sister has some major issues she's dealing with her son having cancer, so I let it go. If it were to happen again EVERYONE will know for sure. 

They try to keep as much control and dignity as possible.
He feels entitled and he will try to justify what he did. You said he knew what he was doing was wrong, but he did it anyway, didn't he. That's how you know he feels entitled. 

He spent and hour and a half at her house? Please don't believe it did not get physical. There is no other reason for him to go there, but that is not the only issue. He WENT there! That is bad enough. 

He does not get to dictate what happens now and he is using your kids as an excuse to stay there. If he cared enough about the kids, none of this would have happened. How much time was he thinking about them while he was carrying on this way. They have a way of compartmentalizing these things. Don't let him get away with it.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

Well I am back needing some more support guys (and gals). The above posts have tremendously helped me. Just need to get on here and vent a little as the saga continues...We have been co-existing in our house (him in the guest room and me in the master) for one week now. We had a long talk on Sunday and I gave him "The Five Love Languages" to read. He read the whole thing (he gets a few brownie points for that) and said it really has some good points that make sense, and that several of the couple examples they used fit our situation exactly. Obviously, his love language is "physical touch" but he is not getting ANY physical touches from me right now. And tonight he had a few beers and decided to "turn the tables" on me. The manipulation you guys have been warning me about started in full force tonight. He told me he was "frustrated" with me, and wanted to know how long he is going to have to stay in the guest room? His "physical touch" needs are not being met, but he has been trying to do "acts of service" for me with no recognition (he washed the breakfast dishes 2 mornings this week and I failed to thank him which I probably should have done in order to show my appreciation). It was actually quite bizarre having him in the kitchen doing that because its something he has NEVER done before. But I truly did appreciate his effort, I just didn't tell him. Anyway, the tone of our conversation was quite negative tonight. I almost felt like he was TRYING to pick a fight with me so he could storm out and leave in his truck. He KNOWS it drives me bonkers for him to leave and not let me know where he is going, so that was another jab at me. He has been very contrite this week, and we have continued to work together in our business very well together. And then he decides to pick a fight and then walks out in the middle of the discussion with no response to the question I asked him. What is this about? Is he trying to bully me or GUILT me into letting him back in the bedroom? That is SO not the way to repair our relationship! I still haven't outed him to his family but I am pretty sure I will do it soon. I am hoping they will be the voice of reason to help him decide what he needs to do. I have decided I cannot continue to be married to him if he does not change the way he inappropriately corresponds with other women. HE has to decide if he is ready to do the work required to MAKE that change. He may decide that he does not want to get individual therapy, but I think he needs it in order to address the reasons why he inappropriately interacts with other women. THEN we will talk about marriage counseling. I am trying to be strong but man is it hard....Am I being delusional about the fact that he will truly change?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

He started a fight because he WAS looking for an excuse to go screw the OW. You know that, right? He also turned the 5 Love Languages book against you. SO not what it's intended for. I don't think books like that are going to do any good anyway as long as he isn't committed to the marriage.

Unless you are willing to play hardball, he isn't going to change. And maybe not even then. Until you are ready to kick him out and/or drop the D bomb, you have no leverage.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> He started a fight because he WAS looking for an excuse to go screw the OW. You know that, right? He also turned the 5 Love Languages book against you. SO not what it's intended for. I don't think books like that are going to do any good anyway as long as he isn't committed to the marriage.
> 
> Unless you are willing to play hardball, he isn't going to change. And maybe not even then. Until you are ready to kick him out and/or drop the D bomb, you have no leverage.


Hope is totally right....

and he is just flipping the script trying to gain back control..

oh and he washed dishes twice and expects that to make everything ok...oh honey I hope you dont fall for this

a lot of us here have been there... its a difficult road and R may never actually be achieved unless both parties are both in... and it doesn't sound like he is....


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He's very predictable. My first reaction was also that he picked a fight to be able to storm out so he could see the OW. It's classic. So common. If you had been able to track him or had a VAR on him, I bet the farm that that is what you would have found.

I frankly think he's way past being helped by a book like '5 Love Languages.'


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

whatisheupto? said:


> Anyway, the tone of our conversation was quite negative tonight. I almost felt like he was TRYING to pick a fight with me so he could storm out and leave in his truck. He KNOWS it drives me bonkers for him to leave and not let me know where he is going, so that was another jab at me. He has been very contrite this week, and we have continued to work together in our business very well together. And then he decides to pick a fight and then walks out in the middle of the discussion with no response to the question I asked him. What is this about? Is he trying to bully me or GUILT me into letting him back in the bedroom?...
> 
> 
> ....Am I being delusional about the fact that he will truly change?


He is desperately trying to get back the life he had. Having you and also living the 'life style' of the player.

And you are the problem. Because you want to take his toy from him.

Just follow the advise from the experienced posters here. Don't break your head about explaining things. They know best based on the info you give then. Try to relax in certain periods of the day. Have trust.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

whatisheupto? said:


> Well I am back needing some more support guys (and gals). The above posts have tremendously helped me. Just need to get on here and vent a little as the saga continues...We have been co-existing in our house (him in the guest room and me in the master) for one week now. We had a long talk on Sunday and I gave him "The Five Love Languages" to read. He read the whole thing (he gets a few brownie points for that) and said it really has some good points that make sense, and that several of the couple examples they used fit our situation exactly. Obviously, his love language is "physical touch" but he is not getting ANY physical touches from me right now. And tonight he had a few beers and decided to "turn the tables" on me. The manipulation you guys have been warning me about started in full force tonight. He told me he was "frustrated" with me, and wanted to know how long he is going to have to stay in the guest room? His "physical touch" needs are not being met, but he has been trying to do "acts of service" for me with no recognition (he washed the breakfast dishes 2 mornings this week and I failed to thank him which I probably should have done in order to show my appreciation). It was actually quite bizarre having him in the kitchen doing that because its something he has NEVER done before. But I truly did appreciate his effort, I just didn't tell him. Anyway, the tone of our conversation was quite negative tonight. I almost felt like he was TRYING to pick a fight with me so he could storm out and leave in his truck. He KNOWS it drives me bonkers for him to leave and not let me know where he is going, so that was another jab at me. He has been very contrite this week, and we have continued to work together in our business very well together. And then he decides to pick a fight and then walks out in the middle of the discussion with no response to the question I asked him. What is this about? Is he trying to bully me or GUILT me into letting him back in the bedroom? That is SO not the way to repair our relationship! I still haven't outed him to his family but I am pretty sure I will do it soon. I am hoping they will be the voice of reason to help him decide what he needs to do. *I have decided I cannot continue to be married to him if he does not change the way he inappropriately corresponds with other women.* HE has to decide if he is ready to do the work required to MAKE that change. He may decide that he does not want to get individual therapy, but I think he needs it in order to address the reasons why he inappropriately interacts with other women. THEN we will talk about marriage counseling. I am trying to be strong but man is it hard....Am I being delusional about the fact that he will truly change?


Dear whatisheupto?,

Been following your thread and feel really bad about how your WH is treating you. You deserve so much better.

One of the sentences in the foregoing post *(bolded above)* caught my attention. May I suggest that you revise the statement as follows:

"I have decided I cannot continue to be married to him as he is today and it is clear that he will not change the way he inappropriately corresponds with other women unless I file for divorce."

As I see it, your WH continues to misbehave because you tolerate it, albeit reluctantly. IMO, nothing short of being served with divorce papers will bring him around. Until then, why should he change?

At the very least, out his behavior to your families.

Wishing you well.


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## whatisheupto? (Mar 5, 2014)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear whatisheupto?,
> 
> Been following your thread and feel really bad about how your WH is treating you. You deserve so much better.
> 
> ...


Hi carmen ohio. I was feeling particularly down today, when I decided to log on here for some encouragement. Boy did your quote above hit home with me just now. I am facing a reality that is VERY hard to face right now. Reading your comment just gives me that little bit of extra strength I need just to make it thru the rest of this day (and I WILL make it - I am NOT suicidal or anything). I am 2 weeks into finding out about him going to OW's house. He still insists it was not physical, but that does not make going to her house OK AT ALL. We are separated "in house" - he is sleeping in the guest room. I want him to be truly sorry for hurting me. I want him to get a therapist and start working through the issues that are making him behave this way. I want him to jump in and FIGHT for our marriage. So far, I am getting half-hearted apologies and assurances that he will "really change this time" - just give him another chance. But he still does not want anyone to know. And my 2 kids are just down the hall and they really don't have a clue that anything at all is wrong. Both my husband and I are playing like all is fine. It is so hard to play this charade. He is playing it to protect our kids but also to protect his image. I want to tell 5 of his family members what is going on - his 2 brothers and their wives and his mother - all of whom I am very close to and have a wonderful relationship with. We all live here in the same town. Well, I just got so tired of going thru this alone - so I have told my 2 sister-in-laws everything. They are keeping the info from their husbands (his brothers) for now, but I cannot ask them to do so forever. I am ready to tell his brothers myself, but I am trying to decide if I should tell them WITH or WITHOUT him present. Part of me wants to throw him to the wolves and tell them without him knowing (I think they will be quite disappointed in him to say the least) but part of me wants to allow him to be able to defend himself. Why is that? I am so very sad today at the thought that my life is going to change forever. I am afraid and very sad, but I know what I have to do, I just have to get the courage to move forward - tell his family and then inevitably separate from him. Then the whole town will know. But then, I won't be the "hoodwinked wife" anymore will I (the word is on the street that he is cheating on me)? I will be free of this emotional hell I am in, so why am I having such a hard time following through? I am trying to walk closer to God thru this journey I am on. I just have to trust that I am making the right decisions for my children. Thanks again carmen ohio and EVERYONE who has supported me on this thread.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Chances are his brothers already know, or at least suspect, if the word is out on the street.

You're hardening your heart - that is good. Your husband doesn't have to be there when you tell his brothers. If he is, all he'll do is DENY DENY DENY just like he does with you. He might even manage to convince them you're lying. He doesn't get the right to defend himself - what defense is there?? He doesn't HAVE a defense. He knows what he's doing is wrong, make no mistake.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

The defense will more than likely turn into gas lighting and blame shifting and he might make you out as the source of the issue and the bad guy. I wouldn't take that chance, nor give him that opportunity, and I would recommend you do what you think is best for you and your kids (especially if the word is out around town already, and he might have talked to them behind your back already).


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## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

Whatisheupto,

Cheaters are lousy parents. I know because my entire childhood was defined by my mom's cheating and my dad's rage and triggers as a result.

In my mom's case, she was charming, warm, and affectionate, but the character weakness that allowed her to cheat also spilled over to her indifference to her children; she had no problem letting my dad take his rage over her cheating out on us kids.

So, be the best parent you can be. That means protecting them from the callousness of your WH. Divorce would have been the merciful path in my family.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

You have to really start to think about what you want. If it is R then you do not want to tread lightly or have him read a book. The way to really start an R is to really kill the EA or PA and that is to shine a light on to it.

1. I would tell his family what is going on.
2. I would go to the Dr and get checked out for STD's and make sure he know you did it.
3. File for a D. You have to be willing to walk away from a marriage to rebuild a marriage. That was a hard lesson for me. 
4 Go to MC tell him he can come along but if he does not go, you need to still keep the appointment.

The person that is willing to walk away from the marriage is the one that controls it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

mahike said:


> The person that is willing to walk away from the marriage is the one that controls it.


This should be a a stickey somewhere.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

mahike said:


> You have to really start to think about what you want. If it is R then you do not want to tread lightly or have him read a book. The way to really start an R is to really kill the EA or PA and that is to shine a light on to it.
> 
> 1. I would tell his family what is going on.
> 2. I would go to the Dr and get checked out for STD's and make sure he know you did it.
> ...


Dear whatisheupto,

I like mahike's advice but what alter it a bit:

1. Speak to an attorney and get ready to file for divorce. As mahike said, you have to be willing to walk away from a marriage to have any chance of rebuilding it. But, in addition to being willing, you have to be prepared to do it, so speaking to an attorney should be the first step.

2. Go to the doctor and get checked out for STD's. Make sure he knows you did it, but only when you confront him as per 4 below.

3. Tell his family what is going on in some detail and without him present. This will make it harder for him to try to gaslight them and play down the seriousness of his infidelity.

4. When you've taken all of the steps above, sit him down and tell him that he has one last chance to come clean about what he has been doing and to reform. Observe his response and determine if he seems genuinely interested in being truthful and reforming. If so, demand a polygraph test to confirm that he is giving you the complete truth. If not (i.e., if he continues to downplay his bad behavior or expresses anything less than total commitment to doing what he needs to do to save his marriage), file for divorce.

5. If you sense that he is being honest (subject to confirmation by the polygraph test) and willing to do what you need him to do to save your marriage, give him a list of your demands. These should include:

- complete transparency as to his whereabouts at all times, his communications (phone, e-mail, etc.) and spending,

- more involvement by him around the house (i.e., chores) and with the family,

- more interest by him in you as his friend and lover (i.e., more time together and romance) and

- marriage counseling.

The message you want him to hear is that he gets one last chance to prove that he can be the husband you deserve or you are leaving. But, in order for this to work, you have to convince him that you are ready, willing and able to leave, hence the importance of lining things up before confronting him.

Finally, when you confront him, you need to be calm, strong and dispassionate. He needs to see you as a person who knows what she wants, has the mental and emotional ability to get what she wants and won't settle for anything less. So you need to rehearse what you are going to say to him and then stick to your script when you speak with him.

Until you have everything ready to go, continue to treat him with respect but maintain an air of indifference towards him. This will prepare him for when you are ready to lower the boom.

Please feel free to PM me if I can be of any additional assistance to you.


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## Atm (Dec 7, 2015)

I've been in somewhat similar situation.

I made my husband choose.. it was on the condition that he would be giving me his password for his email, FB and skype and even viber account....and unfriend/unblock the OW on all of those account. He chose me, our family and asked for forgiveness.

I have forgiven him but have not forgotten the incident.... for him it was just for a thrill... a fling. I'm still healing in our relationship.... and I have hope I will in due time.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ATM, old thread!


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

Saving my spot.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

aine said:


> ATM, old thread!


Darn, lol


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

She totally stayed with him...smh.


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