# Options for heavier woman to take control during sex



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't know if this belongs here, or in the ladies lounge. I'll start here and if a mod wants to move it, great.

Wife is 200lbs, 5'3", not in good shape, lots of pain in her legs. And she'd like to experience more variety in sex than just missionary, doggie, and a couple others. More than anything, I think she'd like to be more active herself, but that's really tough when her on top is exhausting. That used to be her thing back in the day.

So first choice would be ways for her to take control during sex without expending a whole lot of effort. Second would simply be a variety of ways to make love to a big beautiful woman. Surprisingly, there isn't that much out there on this. I think one of the things that makes things worse is that I'm the opposite, physically. 6', 162 pounds, extremely strong. In the TMI discussion, slightly longer than normal, not enough that it makes it easy getting past quite a bit of body. She is highly reluctant (embarrassed) by either toys or the idea of pleasuring herself in general. I thought first that I could help her with that, that it both of us were involved it would be better, but no.... I think she needs some private time to herself to discover such things first.

I realize I'm kind of asking people to betray their body image; ok to say "This is what I heard a friend does." Thanks-


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What I suggest is that you get more active with her outside the bedroom.

Start going on walks as often as possible. Sign up at a gym with her. Get her into exercise classes that get her to stretch and bend. I've seen videos of some very over weight people who are very spry. 


Get her on a keto diet too. She can eat keto. You can just add some rice, pasta or potato (etc) to the same meal that she eats.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just did a google search on "sex techniques for overweight women" and tons of stuff come up.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

I bought a chair for wife that allowed her to sit with me laying on floor underneath Basically a steel frame with clear plastic wide strips with slight gap in middle. 

Wife never wanted to use it. I ended up using it in the shower when I had knee injury.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I just did a google search on "sex techniques for overweight women" and tons of stuff come up.


if you find something oriented towards the overweight woman calling the shots and having fun, let me know. Most of what I’ve seen is for sex positions that “work” and to some extent kind of demeaning. Not much sense of empowerment. More about being able. 

And OMG yes I would love her to do any of the things you mentioned, to get her active. But it’s nearly impossible. Positive encouragement is negatively received. If you knew what I do for a living it would be very strange to think I have a wife in that shape. She’s kind of given up hope in that regard. 

But if I can find ways to let her feel like she’s in control, things might get better. 

I have a lot on my plate with this wonderful woman.:grin2:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

At the end of the day, your wife has a body image problem. She's not comfortable in her own skin, and that seems to be the ultimate problem. Trying the find the right toy or those perfect techniques to get her off is a waste of time if you cannot find a way to reach her mind. That's the biggest sex organ we have, and if every time she has sex with you she feels highly self conscious - you already lost. JMHO, but as mentioned already you need to get her more active and help her with weight loss. Sounds like this is what she wants; however, it's too overwhelming for her. Just guesses on my part.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> At the end of the day, your wife has a body image problem. She's not comfortable in her own skin, and that seems to be the ultimate problem. Trying the find the right toy or those perfect techniques to get her off is a waste of time if you cannot find a way to reach her mind. That's the biggest sex organ we have, and if every time she has sex with you she feels highly self conscious - you already lost. JMHO, but as mentioned already you need to get her more active and help her with weight loss. Sounds like this is what she wants; however, it's too overwhelming for her. Just guesses on my part.


Well yes, I could have posted the exact same thing you wrote. She has to allow herself to have pleasure, and it's not easy. And trying to help her find ways to become more active... that's been a mission for a long time. One she resists, so a very long time ago I stopped making it a priority because her issues with weight are tied into much bigger issues, mostly wanting to be in control of her own life and not do something others suggest, even if it's the best thing for her. I have learned to love and be attracted to whatever shape she is. 

I'm pretty sure I've got the upstairs issues covered very, very well in several other threads. No need to push further into that territory here. In this thread, my mission is to help find out how she can optimize things as she presently is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> if you find something oriented towards the overweight woman calling the shots and having fun, let me know. Most of what I’ve seen is for sex positions that “work” and to some extent kind of demeaning. Not much sense of empowerment. More about being able.
> 
> And OMG yes I would love her to do any of the things you mentioned, to get her active. But it’s nearly impossible. Positive encouragement is negatively received. If you knew what I do for a living it would be very strange to think I have a wife in that shape. She’s kind of given up hope in that regard.
> 
> ...


So here you are out looking for things related to her sexual performance. Is she also looking into it, or is this just you?

If it's just you, if you cannot inspire her to take a walk, how are you going to inspire her to do gymnastics during sex? 

Just curious.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So here you are out looking for things related to her sexual performance. Is she also looking into it, or is this just you?
> 
> If it's just you, if you cannot inspire her to take a walk, how are you going to inspire her to do gymnastics during sex?
> 
> Just curious.


Yeah, not quite like that. This is being prompted from her end. She's the one who's complained that sex is "boring" and she wants more creativity, something different, something that might by more physically stimulating for her. The list goes on. The problem? She expects me to do the heavy lifting, as it were. It's tough because she sees sex as something almost entirely physical and something that has let her down. My view is that by far the more-important thing, when I'm with her, is spiritual. Sex is a connection, not just an orgasm. 

So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control. If I find something interesting here, the trick is how to point her in that direction so she can discover it and own it herself, if possible.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

The answer to this ultimately boils down to not that much different than a man who is 5'3" and 200lbs having ED issues. Exercise, eating healthier, dropping weight and getting into better shape. There is no magic pill or position that is going to help fix the physical limitations. Nothing else will work until the health issues are addressed.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> Yeah, not quite like that. This is being prompted from her end. She's the one who's complained that sex is "boring" and she wants more creativity, something different, something that might by more physically stimulating for her. The list goes on. The problem? She expects me to do the heavy lifting, as it were. It's tough because she sees sex as something almost entirely physical and something that has let her down. My view is that by far the more-important thing, when I'm with her, is spiritual. Sex is a connection, not just an orgasm.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control. If I find something interesting here, the trick is how to point her in that direction so she can discover it and own it herself, if possible.




This is my opinion... words are just words. If she really wanted to so something she would do the heavy lifting. 

She sounds selfish. Full of complaints but no will to do anything about it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> Yeah, not quite like that. This is being prompted from her end. She's the one who's complained that sex is "boring" and she wants more creativity, something different, something that might by more physically stimulating for her. The list goes on. The problem? She expects me to do the heavy lifting, as it were. It's tough because she sees sex as something almost entirely physical and something that has let her down. My view is that by far the more-important thing, when I'm with her, is spiritual. Sex is a connection, not just an orgasm.


Do you understand that you are dismissing her wants and desires and wanting her to conform to your perspective?

If you think that approach will see you win a better sustainable sex life, you are highly likely to be mistaken.

If you want to have a better sex life with your wife, you both would do well to address the fact that your wife finds her sex life with you to be boring and not very stimulating.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

*"So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control."*

Do you not see the dichotomy of this statement?

It is a futile endeavor as she will simply reject anything you come up with because she wants control in her life.

This is her attempt to convince you that she really does want to have sex with you. Of course, she isn't going to do the research herself - because she doesn't want to.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> *"So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control."*
> 
> Do you not see the dichotomy of this statement?
> 
> ...


This is dead on.
The only answer that will actually work for the OP is if the wife does the searching herself.
The old horse to water.......


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My advice is to not help her at all... unless she asks for it. Then ask her what her plan is and how you can help.

My guess is that she doesn’t actually want the help, otherwise she’d already have a plan and be enacting it.

Focus on you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> This is my opinion... words are just words. If she really wanted to so something she would do the heavy lifting.
> 
> She sounds selfish. Full of complaints but no will to do anything about it.


Harsh truth, this...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control. If I find something interesting here, the trick is how to point her in that direction so she can discover it and own it herself, if possible.


It appears that your wife doesn't see that the problem is her physical health and fitness being unable to sustain what she wants, but rather than doing something about it, she complains as if she is a victim with no personal power to change the situation. You step in to try to save her, thus reinforcing her view that she is a victim that needs saving. You could tell her that she has power over this situation. If she is willing to get into better shape, she can solve the problem entirely, because the thing she is complaining about is directly related to her level of fitness. You cannot change that for her. She has to want it enough to do something about it.

Sure she might get angry with you, but feeding into the lies she's telling herself isn't doing her any good either. Tell her the truth. Let her be angry. Let her deal with her situation, but don't let her to continue to complain about your sex life when she is the one who is causing the problem.

If she does get angry, that might help her (and you) in the long run, because anger can be a terrific motivator. Not that I'm suggesting you make her angry. Of course, you will tell her the truth in love. But that doesn't always mean a person isn't going to respond back in love. When people have their issues pointed out to them, they tend to get angry no matter how kindly you say it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> This is my opinion... words are just words. If she really wanted to so something she would do the heavy lifting.
> 
> She sounds selfish. Full of complaints but no will to do anything about it.


I understand this, yet it does not change the worth of asking the basic question I asked. Are there options for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If there are, it would be helpful to know. That's all. I am fully aware of the basic issues she has. That's been covered extensively. 



Personal said:


> Do you understand that you are dismissing her wants and desires and wanting her to conform to your perspective?
> 
> If you think that approach will see you win a better sustainable sex life, you are highly likely to be mistaken.
> 
> If you want to have a better sex life with your wife, you both would do well to address the fact that your wife finds her sex life with you to be boring and not very stimulating.


I understand this, yet it does not change the worth of asking the basic question I asked. Are there options for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If there are, it would be helpful to know. That's all. I am fully aware of the basic issues she has. That's been covered extensively. 



Blondilocks said:


> *"So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control."*
> 
> Do you not see the dichotomy of this statement?
> 
> ...


OK, you would have received the boilerplate answer except for the bolded part. That's a different interpretation of things than the norm. Most would believe she's gone out of her way to avoid anything-sex (with some recent changes for the better though).



StillSearching said:


> This is dead on.
> The only answer that will actually work for the OP is if the wife does the searching herself.
> The old horse to water.......


I understand this, yet it does not change the worth of asking the basic question I asked. Are there options for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If there are, it would be helpful to know. That's all. I am fully aware of the basic issues she has. That's been covered extensively. 



Cynthia said:


> It appears that your wife doesn't see that the problem is her physical health and fitness being unable to sustain what she wants, but rather than doing something about it, she complains as if she is a victim with no personal power to change the situation. You step in to try to save her, thus reinforcing her view that she is a victim that needs saving. You could tell her that she has power over this situation. If she is willing to get into better shape, she can solve the problem entirely, because the thing she is complaining about is directly related to her level of fitness. You cannot change that for her. She has to want it enough to do something about it.
> 
> Sure she might get angry with you, but feeding into the lies she's telling herself isn't doing her any good either. Tell her the truth. Let her be angry. Let her deal with her situation, but don't let her to continue to complain about your sex life when she is the one who is causing the problem.
> 
> If she does get angry, that might help her (and you) in the long run, because anger can be a terrific motivator. Not that I'm suggesting you make her angry. Of course, you will tell her the truth in love. But that doesn't always mean a person isn't going to respond back in love. When people have their issues pointed out to them, they tend to get angry no matter how kindly you say it.


Yes, this is the plan, this is in sync with your IC & shrink. It's a very tough road though.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> I understand this, yet it does not change the worth of asking the basic question I asked. Are there options for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If there are, it would be helpful to know. That's all. I am fully aware of the basic issues she has. That's been covered extensively.
> 
> I understand this, yet it does not change the worth of asking the basic question I asked. Are there options for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If there are, it would be helpful to know. That's all. I am fully aware of the basic issues she has. That's been covered extensively.
> 
> ...



From the way you described things initially, I think you may be asking the wrong question. The "heavier woman" part is not what you should be looking at. That is not the same as a sedentary woman who is exhibiting outward symptoms of poor heath due to her obesity. Her limitations are not simply because she is "heavier" "Heavier" women have all the same options for control and active sexual engagement as skinny women...up until the point that their weight interferes with that.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Yes there are lots of sex positions for heavy women to take up that empowers them.

And just to let you know feeling empowered is a personal and subjective thing. You want to assume that being in control and empowered means that a women is on top type of thing. I am here to tell you that control and empowerment is in the mind. For example, I feel In control and empowered when I am on my knees giving my boyfriend a blowjob. Other women might not feel this, my boyfriend might feel like he is in charge. But when I am in charge and feeling empowered, I am mother Fing in charge and empowered and it doesn’t matter what position I am in. Does that make sense to you? 

When I want to be dominate and do things I want to do, that’s what I do. It’s not what I’m doing exactly. Your missing the point. My boyfriend knows it when he sees it. It doesn’t matter if I start off going down on him, or sit on him face. He knows that that time he is going to be along for the ride and that’s it. I might be on top, then tell him to F me from behind. Do you see the difference? I am in charge of the show. It’s not what position exactly. Your missing the point I think. 

And it’s ironic that you are trying to find things for your wife to be in control. If she wants to be in control she will be in control. The end.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes, there is an option for a heavier woman to take control during sex. If SHE wanted to be physically more able to move and thus be more in control, then SHE would be exercising, stretching, doing Tai Chi, and losing a ton of weight. If she's not doing that, then she's not really interested in taking control. Of anything.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> Yes, this is the plan, this is in sync with your IC & shrink. It's a very tough road though.


Oh, yes. It is hard, but you obviously love your wife very much. Keep loving her and encouraging her in everything that you love about her.

Also, I'm thinking you could ask her why she thinks she is having this problem and let her come to the recognition of it, rather than flat out telling her that she isn't physically capable is making things better at this time, at least not until she takes charge of her health and her situation. Maybe talk to her about how it used to be and what she thinks has changed to make that not work anymore.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ok, someone really needs to break out the 2x4s. It won't be me because dollars to donuts, I'll be told I'm *RUDE*.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I thought I did!



Blondilocks said:


> Ok, someone really needs to break out the 2x4s. It won't be me because dollars to donuts, I'll be told I'm *RUDE*.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Ok, someone really needs to break out the 2x4s. It won't be me because dollars to donuts, I'll be told I'm *RUDE*.





Livvie said:


> I thought I did!


Guys(?) I get it. Seriously, I get it. You can call her everything under the sun, including lazy, not willing to put in the effort to make herself better, and you haven't yet but you can add that I've been enabling her bad habits. And you'd be right! 

I don't understand why I have the patience to keep trying. But look, I think there's some potential just because she's seeing an IC and a shrink and we're seeing an MC. This is more than has ever been the case before. And if nothing else, I'm collecting stories to be related to the MC, and my wife REALLY likes the MC (who's also doing IC work with her) and maybe the two can make some headway.

So I'm not saying your points aren't valid. I'm not even saying you're rude. Just saying that I hear you, heard you the first time, heard you the 23rd time. I respect your points of view, but I'm not giving up, I'm not leaving her. There's more to play out before that's a consideration.

Thank you. Seriously, thank you.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Maybe say...”Baby, when we make love tomorrow, you are going to be in charge. I can’t wait to see what you come up with.”


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Spicy said:


> Maybe say...”Baby, when we make love tomorrow, you are going to be in charge. I can’t wait to see what you come up with.”


That is pretty much exactly the plan. My wife actually came up with the idea of scheduled sex, certain nights are her "responsibility" and certain nights are mine. Which is really pretty awesome! Up to a point. Because sometimes sex is "meaningful or spiritual", sometimes sex is a good fast f*** and sometimes sex is acrobatic. But the idea of coming up with something... that puts a lot of pressure on, and the emphasis trends towards the acrobatic. 

And the acrobatic aspect is what tends to leave her behind a bit. And then there's production values. Lighting (candles?). 

She *is* trying. And yes, I'd like to see her get more credit for that here. But she has a tough time maintaining passion. I don't want a wild half hour of sex. I want two full days of sex. By that I mean, I want some time where I'm really looking forward to it. Anticipation. Which I'll never get from her because, as I've explained elsewhere, she cannot anticipate pleasure. It's so weird. In the moment, she can sometimes do OK. 

What turns me on? If she'd tell me, I'm going to be thinking about making love to my husband all day today. Those are just words right? Not too hard to say. And if she'd say the words, she might even talk herself into believing them. But she won't, because she doesn't know at that moment how she'll feel 2 hours from then, or 12 or 24. She won't commit to feeling passionate. That is so strange to me.

I think good things are going to come from our MC sessions though, along with my IC, her IC, her psychiatrist and her psychologist. (Truthfully, I didn't know until today that she had both a psychiatrist and a psychologist!).


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

I am not going to psycho analyze....

If you want a good, low impact, girl on top position that is intimate try this one (and it works for "long" guys).

Sit on a couch or oversized stuffed chair - scooch down a little - think "sit on your pockets" this will bring your **** front and center. 

She can then straddle, facing you - on her knees, and can use the back of the couch as a hand hold to help support herself, move her body. You can help with your hands on her ass cheeks if she needs it.

In this position you can kiss, she can have her tits in your face, she can lean back and enjoy herself or lean forward and kiss your neck etc. 

Either of you can also use fingers to play with her clit in this position. 

And when you feel like she is close to coming, you can drive into her and help her there. 

Hope you have a couch handy :grin2:


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I guess the basic question here is..do you want to explore positions that are best for you two? If so, just google sex for heavy women and lots of different things come up from very reputable sources.

But if you are asking how to help your wife gain control in the bedroom, that is a different question. That is a self esteem based inquiry, and something that you have no control over and cannot modify. That will be addressed in counselling. Perhaps a sex therapist would help her to uncover the roadblocks. 

Also please remember that just because she doesnt experience emotions etc regarding sex the way you do, doesnt mean its a problem.
Perhaps meet her halfway on that one. 

Has she ever considered boudoir photography? With a good crew she would feel absolutely amazing and they are so tasteful if you pick the right company. She may see herself in a whole new light.

Sometimes its the stuff that goes on OUTSIDE the bedroom that impacts what happens inside it.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I shouldnthave said:


> I am not going to psycho analyze....
> 
> If you want a good, low impact, girl on top position that is intimate try this one (and it works for "long" guys).
> 
> ...



I want a cigarette, who’s got a light?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Psychiatrist determines need for meds and writes prescriptions. Psychologist more likely is therapist in charge of goals, problems, types of therapy.

I'm not trying to belabor a point but what would happen if you told her this: "What turns me on? If she'd tell me, I'm going to be thinking about making love to my husband all day today." Maybe she could learn to anticipate, if not pleasure, the fulfillment/joy of making her spouse happy. If not, she still might be willing to 'play/flirt/tease' with you for your sake. I'm thinking by now she is comfortable talking about sex?

Nonsexual touch can go a long way in priming a woman, especially if no 'rewards' are expected. Most women truly need to feel connected and safe to let go. I wish y'all well.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Not sure if I missed it, what age group are you guys in?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Spicy said:


> Not sure if I missed it, what age group are you guys in?


how about “Experienced”. 63 and 62.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> Yeah, not quite like that. This is being prompted from her end. She's the one who's complained that sex is "boring" and she wants more creativity, something different, something that might by more physically stimulating for her. The list goes on. The problem? She expects me to do the heavy lifting, as it were. It's tough because she sees sex as something almost entirely physical and something that has let her down. My view is that by far the more-important thing, when I'm with her, is spiritual. Sex is a connection, not just an orgasm.
> 
> So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control. If I find something interesting here, the trick is how to point her in that direction so she can discover it and own it herself, if possible.


Have you ever looked into tantric sexology?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@Casual Observer How do you show your desire for her? I mean in a way that you desire HER and not just sex. Does she feel desired and attractive to you, in this relationship?

Feeling desired and sexy is difficult for someone with insecurities over their body image, but interactions with a partner can play a big role in how she sees herself and how she feels. And if she feels desired by you and if she feels sexy, then she might be more willing to take some control.

Also... since tantric sex was mentioned, I'm going to specifically suggest that you look up tantric yoni massage. Just Google it, and when it's your night, try it on her.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FIP I think you are going down the wrong alley, here. OP is very attentive and into his wife and shows it 

Unfortunately, the problem is that she doesn't have passion for him. 



FeministInPink said:


> @Casual Observer How do you show your desire for her? I mean in a way that you desire HER and not just sex. Does she feel desired and attractive to you, in this relationship?
> 
> Feeling desired and sexy is difficult for someone with insecurities over their body image, but interactions with a partner can play a big role in how she sees herself and how she feels. And if she feels desired by you and if she feels sexy, then she might be more willing to take some control.
> 
> ...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> FIP I think you are going down the wrong alley, here. OP is very attentive and into his wife and shows it
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem is that she doesn't have passion for him.


its still a valid point to bring up. If it seems that everything is about sex, and sex isn’t your strongpoint, it’s going to seem impossible and demeaning. So there are many times massage does not lead to sex, many things I do to take interest in her activities and support for what she enjoys. 

But it *is* tough. So much of it is about her privacy issues. It was such a big thing that she allowed me to go with her to her physical therapy appointment yesterday. But how do you get her to open up without it seeming, to her, that I want her to be just like me, that it’s wrong to be the way she is? Because if she sees things that way, she becomes very defensive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> FIP I think you are going down the wrong alley, here. OP is very attentive and into his wife and shows it
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem is that she doesn't have passion for him.


I agree, but most everyone enjoys a long (time) lasting and a whole body massage. 

A good masseur can loosen up the tightest of aching minds.

With the Tantric Massage coming at the end, following on the tail end of a (more normal) rubbing, kneading opener.

I love giving of these...



The Typist I-


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> FIP I think you are going down the wrong alley, here. OP is very attentive and into his wife and shows it
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem is that she doesn't have passion for him.


But maybe I'm not. Just hear me out. 

It's clear to all of us that the OP loves his wife and would do anything for her. But the way people show love and the way they show desire can be very different and can be PERCEIVED very differently by the person who is loved/desired. Women of a certain generation and women who have body image issues can fall prey to the idea (or may already believe) that men will screw anything that moves and that the only reason their husband is sleeping with her is that the husband has no other options sexually, because they are in a monogamous relationship. He can be very attentive, but if he's not being attentive in the a way that will make her feel desired and sexy, his attentiveness is all for naught. That's what I'm trying to get at and trying to figure out.

He's asking about things that will MAKE her take control.

I'm thinking about things that will cause her to WANT to take control.

And I'm think the way to get her there is for him to take control in a different way. This isn't just about different sexual positions. She needs to better connect with her body, but her self-loathing (and maybe depression?) is getting in the way of that.

That's why I'm suggesting the tantric yoni massage. The benefit of this technique, if done intentionally and correctly, if that it works much like a regular massage in terms of relaxation and clearing the mind, but it should also help her to feel more connected to her body and her sexuality. It also solely focuses on her, with no expectation of sexual reciprocation. 

(Although, if someone gave me a yoni massage, I would be chomping at the bit for some sexual reciprocation, because it WORKS.)

The other thought that was running in the back of my mind when I wrote my previous post was responsive desire. I intended to mention it, but it was the middle of the night and I forgot.

If he can improve upon her level of desire--which in many women is responsive to the man's behavior--she may naturally begin to feel better about her body and then more often choose to take the lead, naturally.

So I want to know what the OP is doing to stoke her fire BEFORE sex even comes up, because I haven't seen that mentioned yet. 

ETA: @Livvie You mentioned the problem was she doesn't have passion for him. That is exactly the problem which I am trying to address.

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> ETA: @Livvie You mentioned the problem was she doesn't have passion for him. That is exactly *the problem which I am trying to address*.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes, yes...

And the problem he is trying to undress.

I'm bad.



TT 1-


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> But maybe I'm not. Just hear me out.
> 
> It's clear to all of us that the OP loves his wife and would do anything for her. But the way people show love and the way they show desire can be very different and can be PERCEIVED very differently by the person who is loved/desired. Women of a certain generation and women who have body image issues can fall prey to the idea (or may already believe) that men will screw anything that moves and that the only reason their husband is sleeping with her is that the husband has no other options sexually, because they are in a monogamous relationship. He can be very attentive, but if he's not being attentive in the a way that will make her feel desired and sexy, his attentiveness is all for naught. That's what I'm trying to get at and trying to figure out. *For a while I think she honestly thought that was the case; that because we were married I was trapped into a scenario where she was the only woman I could have sex with so I was essentially making the best of a bad situation. Sort of. But she knows I'm not that shallow so it doesn't really pass the smell test. And she finally came to recognize that I do have other options; I can choose to leave. She made assumptions that marriage carries on via momentum, forever.
> 
> ...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The above is what I'm trying to say. Wife has never in their marriage exhibited passion for CO. ***He's very good to her****. It's 4 decades if kind of juggling and also hoops and hoping and trying to "get her" to have passion and excitement for him. I'd hesitate real hard to assign him even MORE duties and responsibilities for getting this woman to want him!!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

That's great. But after 4 decades of not having natural sexual passion for this man, the best massage in the ****ing world isn't going to make it appear. Nope. I'd bet anything on that.




SunCMars said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > FIP I think you are going down the wrong alley, here. OP is very attentive and into his wife and shows it
> ...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well I didn't read the whole thread. I'm larger and short so I can say we like the liberator ramp wedge series for what you are talking about. While it takes some pillows and setup it allows me to be on top and expend a lot less energy as I can more stand / crouch but I can get traction and is easier on my legs. Without it it's hard also I have wrist issues that laying on top doesn't work. In addition, it is an easy way for me to slip a b-vibe in him which makes it easier for me and more intense for him.

It isn't for people completely uncomfortable with their spouse because there's set up and adjusting involved. You don't just fall on the bed in passion. And of course the first time you use the butt plug is an honest moment.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> That's great. But after 4 decades of not having natural sexual passion for this man, the best massage in the ****ing world isn't going to make it appear. Nope. I'd bet anything on that.



There is passion and there are massages......

I now bite my tongue, mark that as a first on your calendar.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well I didn't read the whole thread. I'm larger and short so I can say we like the liberator ramp wedge series for what you are talking about. While it takes some pillows and setup it allows me to be on top and expend a lot less energy as I can more stand / crouch but I can get traction and is easier on my legs. Without it it's hard also I have wrist issues that laying on top doesn't work. In addition, it is an easy way for me to slip a b-vibe in him which makes it easier for me and more intense for him.
> 
> It isn't for people completely uncomfortable with their spouse because there's set up and adjusting involved. You don't just fall on the bed in passion. And of course the first time you use the butt plug is an honest moment.
> 
> ...


Gods, save me, I'm dying....


King Brian-


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Anything and everything?  One of the rituals I've done, every single day, not missing one, since shortly after our crisis back in March, is to make the bed. Nicely. Every single night we start with the bed made. I've made it a point of making the bedroom a pleasant rather than messy environment. Not just for sex. It's nice for her to walk into the bedroom during the day and see that there's one room in the house that's not a disaster. And it was the most-unlikely of people to make it that way (me). Installed a medicine cabinet in the bathroom to get all the meds off hte counter (quite a few meds sometimes for couples in their 60s). I have learned not just to help in the kitchen (cleanup; you don't want me to cook!) and actually enjoy it. I take her out to dinner more often. She gets one 11-15 day vacation to some far-off location every November or December (this year it will be Israel, last year Morocco, we've also been to Egypt, South Africa, Tanzanian Safari, Cambodia, Thailand, Australia, France, London, China... I'm sure I'm forgetting a few).


Oh, dear. This is all lovely, and it shows her that you do love her. And it is very thoughtful. But this is going to do nothing to stoke her fire, and it doesn't show that you desire her.

Do you flirt with her ever? Show her how you lust after her? Allow your eyes to linger on her breasts just a little too long, and then give her a mischievous grin? Anything like that?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, dear. This is all lovely, and it shows her that you do love her. And it is very thoughtful. But this is going to do nothing to stoke her fire, and it doesn't show that you desire her.
> 
> Do you flirt with her ever? Show her how you lust after her? Allow your eyes to linger on her breasts just a little too long, and then give her a mischievous grin? Anything like that?
> 
> ...


Funny you should mention this. All. The. Time. There is no shortage of flirtatious behavior on my part. Our MC cannot believe that lack of effect it has, and zero effort to flirt on her part. There is no there there. I've stopped sending her flirtatious text messages because A: they don't get answered and B: it's clear they annoy her. 

Regarding her "breasts" well yeah, I have some real fun with that, when she's wearing something and it's slipping down and she has a bit too much showing. That's funny because she's got the most poorly-done post-mastectomy fake boobs imaginable. And what makes it really funny is that I still find a bit too-much-skin showing to be enticing.

I do not fully understand why God gave me eyes for this woman, no matter what shape she's in. But God did, and I don't ever look at other women and think I'd rather be in bed with them than my wife. Some sort of pair-bonding I guess?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Funny you should mention this. All. The. Time. There is no shortage of flirtatious behavior on my part. Our MC cannot believe that lack of effect it has, and zero effort to flirt on her part. There is no there there. I've stopped sending her flirtatious text messages because A: they don't get answered and B: it's clear they annoy her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then you really ARE doing everything. This makes me sad, because I don't know what else you could possibly do.

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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Then you really ARE doing everything. This makes me sad, because I don't know what else you could possibly do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


No, I'm not doing everything. Because I haven't yet given up. I haven't gotten to the point of conventional TAM wisdom that says, either change myself to find her behavior OK, or leave. I'm still working at it. What gives me hope is discovering a reason that she might have triggered and totally lost desire/libido/let's-call-it-what-it-is being horny. Trouble is, it's all about memories that she'd rather leave in the past. And nobody can honestly know for sure if, finally dealing with some long-past trauma, would actually help us.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> No, I'm not doing everything. Because I haven't yet given up.


I think you are jumping the gun a bit... before all this, just wait and see how MC and IC go. You are putting too much pressure on her, IMO. You've waited over 40 years... a few more months won't do any harm... :smile2:

And I don't have any suggestions for the heavier woman, although my wife is a bit on the largish side... or she was... I haven't seen her body in 2 years... :laugh: She loved being on top and be in control from there.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Gods, save me, I'm dying....
> 
> 
> King Brian-


Different generations.:wink2:


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> So I'm not saying your points aren't valid. I'm not even saying you're rude. Just saying that I hear you, heard you the first time, heard you the 23rd time. I respect your points of view, but I'm not giving up, I'm not leaving her. There's more to play out before that's a consideration.


I love reading about how much you love your wife, but I'm sorry she lacks passion. You can't manufacture it, especially in someone else.



Casual Observer said:


> I do not fully understand why God gave me eyes for this woman, no matter what shape she's in. But God did, and I don't ever look at other women and think I'd rather be in bed with them than my wife. Some sort of pair-bonding I guess?


I don't know why, but I think it's wonderful that you love your wife as a package deal. I have a feeling she doesn't really love herself, which is likely the root of this problem.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have heard this discussion in a divorce discovery. She was a SSBBW. (look it up) Her AP used BBW porn to discover comfortable positions for their sex life. A little research earned him primary position with her, and her husband was relegated to plan B. Husband used every bit of information in the divorce to completely humiliate his WW. He knew she was sensitive about her weight, and it became a centerpiece of the divorce. The primary contention was that she was so very very fat, that sex was neither comfortable or satisfying. He contended that AP used BBW porn to learn about comfort and pleasure. The humiliation suffered by his ex in both discoveries and in the courtroom led to her backing down off nearly every positon she took in the divorce. Consequently, my client did ok in the divorce. His ex spent a significant time on the couch thereafter. His anger was unleashed on her at several junctures of the divorce. He used her weight and her completely absent self esteem to get at her. It was not a matter of anything other than he completely resented that she went outside the marriage. He was fine with her weight, and other things. Once she betrayed him, he turned into the most vengeful ex spouse I had ever seen. He tore her down over and over. She admitted that if she knew how much he would hate, and denigrate her, she would have never even considered an affair. She joined Weight Watchers six months after the divorce. She is now about 140lbs. Significantly thinner than she ever was. She is taking this as a new lease on life. She is starting from scratch, no marriage, no lover, different body. Her ex still says that she will at one point pack it back on as she has no self control. Time will tell.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Taxman said:


> I have heard this discussion in a divorce discovery. She was a SSBBW. (look it up) Her AP used BBW porn to discover comfortable positions for their sex life. A little research earned him primary position with her, and her husband was relegated to plan B. Husband used every bit of information in the divorce to completely humiliate his WW. He knew she was sensitive about her weight, and it became a centerpiece of the divorce. The primary contention was that she was so very very fat, that sex was neither comfortable or satisfying. He contended that AP used BBW porn to learn about comfort and pleasure. The humiliation suffered by his ex in both discoveries and in the courtroom led to her backing down off nearly every positon she took in the divorce. Consequently, my client did ok in the divorce. His ex spent a significant time on the couch thereafter. His anger was unleashed on her at several junctures of the divorce. He used her weight and her completely absent self esteem to get at her. It was not a matter of anything other than he completely resented that she went outside the marriage. He was fine with her weight, and other things. Once she betrayed him, he turned into the most vengeful ex spouse I had ever seen. He tore her down over and over. She admitted that if she knew how much he would hate, and denigrate her, she would have never even considered an affair. She joined Weight Watchers six months after the divorce. She is now about 140lbs. Significantly thinner than she ever was. She is taking this as a new lease on life. She is starting from scratch, no marriage, no lover, different body. Her ex still says that she will at one point pack it back on as she has no self control. Time will tell.


I don't know whom I feel sorrier for here. You don't mention if the husband actually loved his wife and tried to maintain sexual intimacy, but it wasn't good enough so she went elsewhere. Or had the husband previously humiliated her? You say he was fine with her weight, among other things. I just find it hard to believe he'd go so heavily into the humiliation game without it being part of his normal way of thinking.

Or it the sad story just a way of introducing BBW and SSBBW searches as a way of looking for better sex with larger women?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Yes there are lots of sex positions for heavy women to take up that empowers them.
> 
> And just to let you know feeling empowered is a personal and subjective thing. You want to assume that being in control and empowered means that a women is on top type of thing. I am here to tell you that control and empowerment is in the mind. For example, I feel In control and empowered when I am on my knees giving my boyfriend a blowjob. Other women might not feel this, my boyfriend might feel like he is in charge. But when I am in charge and feeling empowered, I am mother Fing in charge and empowered and it doesn’t matter what position I am in. Does that make sense to you?
> 
> ...


It's seeming like in OP post "control" is more accurate with his desire if he says "active".

Active in the sex act, as he's active in the sex act, 50 50 or at least closer than it routinely now is.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Taxman said:


> She admitted that if she knew how much he would hate, and denigrate her, she would have never even considered an affair.


What a complete* ass-hole *statement - not an ounce of remorse and still making it ALL ABOUT HER. What a complete piece of wet garbage.

She deserved every rotten thing that happened to her during that divorce.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> I don't know whom I feel sorrier for here. You don't mention if the husband actually loved his wife and tried to maintain sexual intimacy, but it wasn't good enough so she went elsewhere. Or had the husband previously humiliated her? You say he was fine with her weight, among other things. I just find it hard to believe he'd go so heavily into the humiliation game without it being part of his normal way of thinking.
> 
> Or it the sad story just a way of introducing BBW and SSBBW searches as a way of looking for better sex with larger women?


He loved her. Attempted intimacy repeatedly, however, her self esteem was so low that I believe that she could not accept that he loved her. Couple that with AP knowing a few tricks in the bedroom that hubby did not, and you have the recipe for anger and reprisal. Anger can be a good thing if properly channelled. His reaction, I refer to it as scorched earth. It would have been better for all concerned if he had just walked away, but as with any husband, he knew her buttons.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> I just find it hard to believe he'd go so heavily into the humiliation game without it being part of his normal way of thinking.


I don't find it hard to fathom at all. Wearing love goggles, she was his beautiful wife. Strip off the love goggles because she climbed in bed with someone else and she becomes nothing more than a common rutting pig. Not to mention, when a relationship goes down in flames, people tend to say whatever they know will cause max damage.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> Yeah, not quite like that. This is being prompted from her end. She's the one who's complained that sex is "boring" and she wants more creativity, something different, something that might by more physically stimulating for her. The list goes on. The problem? She expects me to do the heavy lifting, as it were. It's tough because she sees sex as something almost entirely physical and something that has let her down. My view is that by far the more-important thing, when I'm with her, is spiritual. Sex is a connection, not just an orgasm.
> 
> So I'm looking for some way to get her confidence back up, something that she can own & control. If I find something interesting here, the trick is how to point her in that direction so she can discover it and own it herself, if possible.


As others have commented, it is unclear what is meant by "her control." "You can lead a horse to water, but......"

You might start with a Yes/No/Maybe list of sexual activities that you both fill out. You did say she found the current set of regular sex options boring and wanted to try other things. Find the ones that she really likes or wants to try. That could help in the her take the initiative. You might start with a "Honey, would you please something from the list that excites you and surprise me with it this Saturday morning?" I am assuming you don't want to turn your wife into your dominatrix, but just want her to initiate or pursue a little more. Don't make it one sided.

You might also sit down with her and ask her about her sexual fantasies. Tell her (and mean it) that you won't judge her nor will you ever use that knowledge to embarrass her. No mater what she tells you, thank her for her bravery and that it makes you feel more mentally and intimately connected to her. Then if you are willing to do it, do it. If you are unsure, tell her that you want to study what she has asked, talk to her about it when you learn more, and see if the two of you can try it (or some roll playing variation ) to see if you both like it.

Now as to sex in the 60's and 70's, you might want to read up some on elderly sex. It is often slower and gentler than sex in your 20's. AARP and Livestrong have some good posts on this topic. Also there are sex therapist/marriage counselors out there that can help you discuss different things to provide your wife with the variety she wants. If your wife can't handle talking about such things to a professional, maybe select a marital self-help book with her and jointly read a chapter a week and then discuss the chapter read together each week to see if there is anything that resonated with both of you in the chapter.

Finally, be positive, if you are frustrated, forgive her and really let go of any anger. She is probably struggling (as others have pointed out) with self image issues. 

Good luck.


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## JustWavingNotDrowning (Jun 2, 2018)

CO how I sympathise and get where you are. When I met my wife (18 years ago) she was 41 and 380 lbs. She undertook sex as a duty and while she said she enjoyed it a massive diastasis rectii meant missionary was torture and doggie limited by her bad knees and tendency to reflux. She would also not let me see her naked and would get into bed in a long night gown (usually cotton with mickey mouse on it). I always thought she was gorgeous andfancied her rotten. She thought i was mad and decided early on in our relationship i would leave her because 'if she couldn't bear to look at herself, how could I?' I havent left and years later, while we still have physical limitations (58 and 59 repectively) she is multi-orgasmic and vocal in her pleasure. Our path was:

- years of caresses . I don't mean massages just me cuddling her and running my hands over her. She would often block my hands or ask me not to touch a particular spot. I would respect that but over time go back to spot and I indicate I wanted to touch her there. Gradually I could touch her everywhere.At this point PIV sex was okay but my wife never relaxed. We hadn't really engaged in any manually activities.

- mutual masturbation was the next step. My wife had played with herself years before so understood how to pleasure herself. The combination caressing and then manual stimulation meant that she did let me tease her to orgasm. This took a couple of years .

- what really changed up our game was I would typically rub my wife's back as a way to start intimacy. I based this on what she told me and how she responded. One day she was in the kitchen and had her hands full. I told her now she was trapped I was going to take full advantage. Instead of starting on her neck and starting downwards I started at her bum and started to fondle her buttocks, thighs and then finally calves. To be honest i was actually doing it in a overly theatrical lascivious style; lots of squeezing and more forceful handling. Her response? Grabbed me by the hand and dragged me to bed. She came almost immediately. In our WTF analysis my question was "why didnt you tell me that what you wanted?" Her reply was that she didnt know. We came to the conclusion that she had always retained some degree of resistance but that move was unexpected so the 'process' of bracing herself in anticipation of my move didn't work. Essentially she just went with the flow.

- that break through didn't turn her into crazed nymphomaniac but it did mean that she was curious enough about her own  responses to want to start talking to me. The change I saw was she would say can we do it like this or like that. She also became more vocal whereas before she would bury her face in the pillow. Since then I've discovered that she really enjoys light bondage - shored hired a dungeon for one of my birthdays - and gets off on me getting rougher with her.

My wife still cannot bring herself to go on top (she says she is too heavy or her knees hurt). She has no real desire to pursue things like exhibitioism or swinging (thank God) but she is quite comfy making lewd suggestions as to how we will spend Saturday afternoon. Oh and she gets into bed naked. 

I am convinced that her changes aren't so much about trusting me as trusting herself not to offend or disgust me. I would liken it to attending a multi course banquet and instead enjoying the experience you spend all evening worrying you'll use the wrong cutlery and be thrown out. One by product of the change is that when I met her my wife had given up on her weight. About 7 years ago she had the chance for bariatric surgery and she took it. Her weight has dropped to around 180 pounds and she started exercising. Ironically she was champion sportswoman in her late teens so she has a goal to go back to her sport. To mark her progress thiis past June she and i completed a 20 mile hike. 

Sorry I didn't mean to write War and Peace. CO I wanted you to know that it is worth persevering frustrating as it might feel. From what you've written you aren't doing anything 'wrong'. Like me you may be doing the right thing in the wrong way. Your wife just doesnt know herself so cant guide you. 

My wife still has a ton of body image issues but not really around me any more. Our intimacy is still a work in progress but that is more about making time when we aren't both knackered. The latest journey of exploration we are on is porn. I suspect there will be a few more surprises along the way with that.:grin2:


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