# Divorce seems imminent



## Flyer37 (Dec 15, 2013)

Hi all, just thought I'd bounce my story off of some people that maybe can give me some feedback. My wife recently found some texting between me and a woman I met on the road. I am a pilot by profession...I know, I know we instantly get classified as non marriage material unfortunately. This is a woman I had met just recently...no sex or anything just talking and drinking at a bar. I am at a serious lowpoint in my marriage and that's some of the reason I threw caution to the wind and took this girls contact info in the first place. Well, the wife wants a divorce and told me the trust is totally gone and that Im not desirable to her in the least bit anymore. She seems extremely clear and resolute about this. The fact is she was very skeptical of me in this profession from the beginning. It doesn't help that at one other time in our marriage I corresponded with a female via skype and she really never got over it. The latest find seems to be the nail in the coffin and Im so depressed because we have a 2 year old son and I love this woman. She has basically told my in laws everything including things that have happened in our marriage in the last 3 years so Im enemy #1. We tried counseling for a while but it always seemed like she felt the problems in our marriage stemmed from me. I don't know what to do, dont think there is much I can do. The fact is I know Im a standup guy and these two instances I was entertaining the thought and not acting on having an affair. I know it looks bad but I really am at a loss without this family. It really seems like it's over and I want to try and mend this. Is it a lost cause?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I know it sucks man. Sometimes people have a very low threshold for these things. Even though you didnt do anything the fact that you planned to is enough for her. I feel bad for your daughter. Maybe she can forgive in time but from my experience women don't ever really forgive things such as this.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Are you still under one roof?

Tell your wife everything she wants to know.

Listen to her. Do not defend yourself. 

Contact your in-laws and apologize for getting your marriage into trouble.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Flyer37 (Dec 15, 2013)

Yes we're still under one roof...i emailed the in laws and have been listening and spilling my guts...seems like I've lost her


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

You can only do what you can do. Just be totally open and honest like you have never done before. Give her all your passwords, hand your telephone over to her when you get home, and anything else along those lines you can think of. And be happy about it.

In addition, think long and hard about specifically what caused this to happen and explain it to her in great detail. Show your deep remorse. Show your deep empathy because similar things have happened in the past. 

Become more articulate and sensitive than you can ever imagine. Quickly, obtain the ability to write a best-selling book on the subject. Analyze exactly what has went wrong in your marriage, be truthful and honest, but "sell" it with a positive slant. If she has done things to upset you, no matter how big, I CAN guarantee you one thing: real or not, she felt hurt at the time over SOMETHING that caused her behavior to change, thus causing YOU to do what you have done. You have to get to the ROOT of it all, and show her REPEATEDLY how and why that this isn't ever going to happen again. And I predict you will have zero results for a while. Keep loving and keep working. Pour your heart out and don't give up. 

Who knows? In the end, you may end up with a stronger marriage, fixing all that stuff you didn't like to start with. It will take time.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Sounds like the low point in the M is that you checked out of the marriage (for what ever reasons), and your wife knew it. 

A stand up guy would chase his wife, not other women. 

The problem is with you. You can't control you wife, so get control of you. Get yourself into IC.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

And sometimes we really are just D O N E. 

Do what you have to do to make YOU a better person, a better spouse/lover. Because what you did can't work...no one is going to be okay with you having girlfriends on the side. Sex or no sex. 

YOU blew it. Period. 

Now fix you, and be the best dad that you can be for your child.


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## Onthefenc (Dec 11, 2013)

Id say get out. Looks like she already made the decision for you. Once dirty laundry gets aired. No going back. I had an affair once. My wife kept it close. We reconciled. Had she told the world, there wouldve been no reconciliation


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## Haru2013 (Oct 23, 2013)

" This is a woman I had met just recently...no sex or anything just talking and drinking at a bar. I am at a serious lowpoint in my marriage and that's some of the reason I threw caution to the wind and took this girls contact info in the first place. "

It sounds like, so called, 'Emotional Affair,' at least from my viewpoint. I had a very similar experience with my husband whom I've been married many years. In that instance, I confronted him why he needed to talk and help the woman who divorced not long ago and much younger than him.

He apologized me NOT see nor talk her again when we got into heated argument. Having seen his seriousness to my hurtful feelings along with of cource 'my trust,' his apology helped me to overcome my bruised and battered feelings. Because, I felt his behaviour, 'emotional affair' which is NO sex involved, it's very serious enough to damage our marriage. Most important part on this is his value and interest started to ship from mine to that woman that causing me no desire to work hard on the marriage that he seemed to NOT realize it, because I never done that to him. Then, you need to look at other way, .... if you'd see your wife done to you, how do you feel about? It's nothing? You need to think about deeply before texting and going to the bar with this woman in the first place. You're a married man, not a bachelor guy who can do any thing you want. 

I'm still suspicious whenever he comes home late, but I still love him and we, both need each other that is most important factor for me to move on. 

That's all said, my husband showed not only 'love' but also 'respect' deeply and sincerely helped me heal, not completely but about 85-90% on my battered and much hurtful feelings and also my heart. 

Then, my suggestion/advice would be 'talk' and 'apology' to her, because she DEFINITELY hurt and also her trust for you was gone. 

Good luck to you.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Hi Flyer. Sorry to see you here. I went through something similar with my H this year.

He had what is known as a EA on here. He had an inappropriate relationship with a woman. It did not turn physical but this woman was getting more attention than the kids or me put together. The ONLY reason I have not divorced him is because he had been a good husband and dad for 20 years and because he has shown true remorse by turning over his phone and computer stuff to me, patiently answering my repeated questions about the relationship and cutting off contact with this woman.

Please understand, I have blame in weakening our relationship over the years. We have both recognized things we should have been doing differently/better in the marriage and are both working hard now to rebuild our commitment. HOWEVER, starting up an inappropriate "friendship" with another woman was ALL HIM...100%. It hurts, plain and simple. I love him, but I no longer trust him and am not sure I ever will again. There are still many days when I think I'm just going to divorce him because it's not worth the pain.

That is what your wife feels. If you want to stay married, the bulk of the weight is ON YOU to fix it.


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## Flyer37 (Dec 15, 2013)

Thanks for feedback everyone. Seems like I dug myself a big hole that's gonna take a long while to climb out of...that's if she's even game to work on it. The hardest part is that this confirms her already insecure view of my job. She has no way to monitor, its all about trust and that is not there. Last night I said I'd do anything to make it work because I truly love her. I received a better response than anticipated...she has to think about it yet she wants to live separate lives for a while. From what I hear in your responses, the trust is never fully recovered...the thing that is really hard is that I know she is willing to forgive but will never forget. In our past arguments the past is used as fuel for the fire...and that is a huge problem. Another hard part is the dirty laundry is out with her family and friends, gonna be hard to deal with. We have , I should say I have an immense task in front of me but I am in love with this person. On that note I think one should do anything to salvage something so important. I really think there's only one or two people in everyone's life that they can imagine spending their life in a relationship with. I just can't go to the grave knowing I didn't to everything in my power to save what I have now.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Your job makes things very difficult. Honestly, if I was your wife, I would probably not stay with you. Not because I don't love you, but the lack of trust causes your imagination to go wild and some women just aren't going to want to have that pain/feeling of insanity for the next 20 years until you retire. Because let's face it, pilots have a notorious reputation as womanizers and with you being gone/unreachable so much, her mind will be filled with visuals of you romancing ladies in bars and hotel rooms. And although you stopped short of a full-blown affair multiple times, at what point can she be sure you won't ever do it?

Look, I realize that being a pilot is a dream job. Not sure what her job is but it's probably not as cool. How do you balance keeping your fractured marriage and your cool job? That's a huge question! I hope you two can find the answer together, but it won't be easy.

As far as outing it to the family...I have to support her. I think the embarrassment helped you to break off your inappropriate relationship and decide this behavior is not worth the repercussions. I'm guessing pilots get a lot of ego-stroking wherever they go. To now be looked at as less than perfect has to suck. But I bet it's a great motivator for you to try and regain the respect.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Flyer, welcome aboard! I'm an airline captain, so I know the problem with the image of flight crews having orgies every night.

My wife told me one time a coworker of hers asked if I'd cheated on her _yet_, because pilots and flight attendants are all sleeping with each other.

To which I replied that when I am on a trip in the hotel she doesn't know what I am doing. And when I am on a trip in the hotel, I don't know what _she_ is doing. The look on her face was priceless, as she realized this trust was a two way street.

I have heard so many stories of pilot's wives cheating while they are away. It is an epidemic. I've never seen a case of cheating on the road by a flight crew member in the over 20 years I've been in this industry. It may have happened with one of my crewmembers but I never witnessed anything suspicious. The industry is so different now that romantic attachments are not very likely to develop, flying with different crew every week and even every day, to different locations. We no longer have that standard route or standard trip every week.

Anyhow, you are fighting an undeserved stereotype, and your actions did dig a deep hole. I think the best way to handle this is to do a few things. First, call your EAP and see a counselor. You can get some excellent advice, and you can explore why you had weak boundaries. 

Second, calmly tell your wife that you want to work on saving the marriage and making it a great marriage. You ask her to join you.

Third, ask her to join you in marriage counseling.

Fourth, tell her that you will do whatever she needs to rebuild the trust. Tell her if she wants, you will do a polygraph. Let her make the appointment with a good polygrapher at a time of her choosing.

Fifth, listen to her. Let her talk. Don't correct her, don't try to change her mind about anything. Ask her "what do you mean?" and then let her talk some more. The goal is for you to learn what she is really thinking and for her to feel heard by you. You can validate her statements with things like "I can understand how you would think that", and "It was hurtful to you when I ____".

What you have done is an infidelity. You broke the boundaries of the marriage. Your wife feels betrayed. The marriage has to be recovered by going through the same process as if this had been an all out affair.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

yeah_right said:


> I'm guessing pilots get a lot of ego-stroking wherever they go.


:rofl:

We're the enemy as far as TSA is concerned. We're overpaid labor as far as our employers are concerned. We're annoying _crew_ as far as the hotels are concerned. We're cheap jerks as far as the van drivers are concerned. We're out of control criminals as far as the Favorite Aviation Administration is concerned. We're incompetent drunkards as far as the media is concerned. We're demanding pricks as far as rampers and bag handlers are concerned. We're the reason airplanes break according to mechanics.

Decades ago it was different.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Thor said:


> To which I replied that when I am on a trip in the hotel she doesn't know what I am doing. And when I am on a trip in the hotel, I don't know what _she_ is doing. The look on her face was priceless, as she realized this trust was a two way street.


Wow! This is a great point!

As far as regular, non-industry people go...we still think pilots are cool as sh!t. I am always in awe of a man or woman who can safely land a giant metal tub filled with several hundred humans and their crap. And women do like men in uniform! While airline-related folks may not give you the same respect, my guess is you still get a boost from everyday folks like me.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

yeah_right said:


> Wow! This is a great point!


There are a couple of standing jokes amongst flight crews. 

The first is The Rule. The Rule is you never go home unexpectedly early from a trip without calling the wife first. I personally know 2 pilots who literally caught their wife in a sex act in their home with another man when they came in unexpectedly.

The second joke is when one flies over their own neighborhood. The comment is something akin to "So that's what kind of car the OM has", or "Who's car is that in my driveway".

The incidence of cheating wives of pilots is staggering. Shocking. It seems to be much higher than the general population.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> There are a couple of standing jokes amongst flight crews.
> 
> The first is The Rule. The Rule is you never go home unexpectedly early from a trip without calling the wife first. I personally know 2 pilots who literally caught their wife in a sex act in their home with another man when they came in unexpectedly.
> 
> ...


My father was a flight engineer. Worked in the RCAF for a long time and then retired to work on 747s for many years after that, working all over the place. I know that he cheated on my mother during the marriage, and he knows that I know that (she did the same thing, too)...

When I was much older, talking to each other as men , I asked if there was much of a problem with cheating going on, from either side. He just said "Look around at my friends. How many of them are working on their first marriage?" I couldn't think of a damned one of them. One or the other, and often both partners, were cheating, he said.

All of them (ALL) were on marriage #2, 3, even 4.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thor said:


> The incidence of cheating wives of pilots is staggering. Shocking. It seems to be much higher than the general population.


Which is why OP needs to ask himself some questions about his wife's attitude.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

sh987 said:


> My father was a flight engineer. Worked in the RCAF for a long time and then retired to work on 747s for many years after that, working all over the place. I know that he cheated on my mother during the marriage, and he knows that I know that (she did the same thing, too)...
> 
> When I was much older, talking to each other as men , I asked if there was much of a problem with cheating going on, from either side. He just said "Look around at my friends. How many of them are working on their first marriage?" I couldn't think of a damned one of them. One or the other, and often both partners, were cheating, he said.
> 
> All of them (ALL) were on marriage #2, 3, even 4.


I know cheating was rampant amongst crew decades ago. The party life, money, and fun destinations were a big draw. The airlines are a totally different career and environment now. Our trips are totally different in structure, and the overall schedule is different. A different kind of person is in the industry, looking for a different kind of lifestyle.

A certain segment does look at the job as a party, though. They bid the longer trips, and they make it a significant part of their social life. These tend to be the young single people. They don't mind being on a 4 or 5 day or longer trip. They like the 18 hour overnights and short low pay value work days. They bid the 5 day trip with a 32 hour layover in Miami so they can go party and get some beach time.

Most married people look for the shorter trips so they can be home for a normal life, including family life but also including sports, music, church, etc. Shorter trips involve long work days with high pay value, and short overnights in the hotel. The logistics of carrying on an affair would be difficult other than an opportunistic ONS. We fly with different crew every week, and frequently every day. Short overnights and brand new acquaintances does not add up to many affairs.

The career is vastly different, too. In the old days, many went right from the military to a major international airline job. Some did a small amount of civilian flying rather than the military route, and then went to the majors. Nowadays one spends 4 years getting a college degree, then spends an additional $100k minimum to get the pilot ratings. Then one works at least 2 years in a very low paying job, perhaps flight instructing or light single engine freight. Then one gets a job at a regional airline, making about $20k per year. After 7 years of that, with pay increasing to the $50k level, you might be able to get an interview at a major airline, if they are in a hiring phase at that time. If you're lucky, and if you have a clean record, you may get hired by a major.

At any point, one can lose the chance of getting to the next step in the industry with any black mark. A violation on your record, a DUI, a medical issue, a domestic violence or other legal problem, or a disciplinary action at your job. So this all adds up to a huge motivation to keep your record clean so you don't get fired from this job, and eventually maybe get to a decent paying job. 

Thus most pilots are goal focused and personally responsible. This makes them less likely to cheat, especially compared to the good old days when the industry attracted those looking to party on the road.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Flyer37 said:


> I received a better response than anticipated...she has to think about it yet she wants to live separate lives for a while. From what I hear in your responses, the trust is never fully recovered...the thing that is really hard is that I know she is willing to forgive but will never forget.


I'll take your word for it that adultery was never committed, one would think your wife would as well. So...she's ready to blow up a marriage with kids in it on the basis of something you deny and she has zero proof for. That ain't normal. 

However, the suggestion to "live separate lives for a while" does ring a bell. Loudly.

If she wants you to move out, refuse. Tell her you're trying to make this work. If she moves out, she has to pay for it out of her wages. The kid stays home. VAR her car and GPS it while you're at it. You might even want to get a PI.

Your wife has been waiting for you to leave an open flank and she was ready to exploit it. You obviously weren't getting any sex lately, either. So, if you weren't getting any on the side, the question presents itself, where was she getting it?

Unfortunately, she's been way ahead of you on this and has shaped the battle space.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> I know cheating was rampant amongst crew decades ago. The party life, money, and fun destinations were a big draw. The airlines are a totally different career and environment now. Our trips are totally different in structure, and the overall schedule is different. A different kind of person is in the industry, looking for a different kind of lifestyle.
> 
> The career is vastly different, too. In the old days, many went right from the military to a major international airline job. Some did a small amount of civilian flying rather than the military route, and then went to the majors. Nowadays one spends 4 years getting a college degree, then spends an additional $100k minimum to get the pilot ratings. Then one works at least 2 years in a very low paying job, perhaps flight instructing or light single engine freight. Then one gets a job at a regional airline, making about $20k per year. After 7 years of that, with pay increasing to the $50k level, you might be able to get an interview at a major airline, if they are in a hiring phase at that time. If you're lucky, and if you have a clean record, you may get hired by a major.


I believe every word of it. Even when he was in the service, my father was away for a long time. Hell, just 5 years into their marriage, he was in Egypt for about a year, doing UN peacekeeping duties. Add to that long trips to bases in Europe, etc, and he said that it created distance between he and my mother, and made solving issues damned near impossible.

When he got out and went to work with the airlines, it was with a whole pile of military guys. Half of the crews seemed to be made of guys who he'd been with in the military. Again, it was long trips, though: two, three weeks at a time were nothing. Hell, he'd spend 18+ hours just deadheading to START a work rotation.

I don't know if he used the job for ONS or any of that. I didn't ask for details and I don't want to know them. For all I know, he had a GF in our hometown. Who knows? 


---

Aside from everything else, it must have been a bit easier for a guy like my Dad, than somebody looking to get into it now. The RCAF paid for his training. He was a kid in the early 1960s, with a high school diploma who was willing to say "Yes Sir!", enabling him reach retirement age, live on that wage, and then pocket/invest his money from the airlines. He never had to put a nickel into his job, and got out during a phase in the late 80s where it seems like a bunch of the airlines were hiring on ex-military guys. Seems like a tough road now.


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## Haru2013 (Oct 23, 2013)

Flyer37 said:


> Thanks for feedback everyone. Seems like I dug myself a big hole that's gonna take a long while to climb out of...that's if she's even game to work on it. The hardest part is that this confirms her already insecure view of my job. She has no way to monitor, its all about trust and that is not there. Last night I said I'd do anything to make it work because I truly love her. I received a better response than anticipated...she has to think about it yet she wants to live separate lives for a while. From what I hear in your responses, the trust is never fully recovered...the thing that is really hard is that I know she is willing to forgive but will never forget. In our past arguments the past is used as fuel for the fire...and that is a huge problem. Another hard part is the dirty laundry is out with her family and friends, gonna be hard to deal with. We have , I should say I have an immense task in front of me but I am in love with this person. On that note I think one should do anything to salvage something so important. I really think there's only one or two people in everyone's life that they can imagine spending their life in a relationship with. I just can't go to the grave knowing I didn't to everything in my power to save what I have now.


From your description, the above, sounds your wife is a very faithful and devoteful wife to you. Knowing this, you don't like to lose her and there is NO replacment to fill your happiness, both professionally and privately, even though there are a plenty of women want you for the charm as being a professional pilot. 

I understand your pain and hurt because of the marital problem brought on by you, not your wife, and now you've been experiencing as same tremendous pain as your wife been going thorough. In that respect, you sound truly a good man who made an innocent mistake, ... paid an attention to someone else. 

In my suggestion and advice would be, .... it's tough for you to take a drastic action, ... however whether you could find another job which does NOT require away from home and the family often, ... maybe once or twice a year, ... is it some soluton to it? Trying to reassure your love isn't easy in the frist place, once she lost 'trust' on you.

Since you keep saying 'true love,' then only way for you being able to convice your love to your wife would be taking a drastic action on your part. Otherwise, she might do whatever she'd need to do for her future happiness.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> I'll take your word for it that adultery was never committed, one would think your wife would as well. So...she's ready to blow up a marriage with kids in it on the basis of something you deny and she has zero proof for. That ain't normal.


Fascinating. I respect your advice, but I don't think you would be so readily accept such an explanation from a wife caught with those text messages on her cell phone. Certainly understandable that the wife here is not convinced. The idea that the only explanation is that she has been waiting for a chance to kick him out to hide her own cheating is a stretch.

Regardless, he has been unfaithful to the marriage (even if he did not physically cheat). I would agree that separating over this will not help them work through things.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Fascinating. I respect your advice, but I don't think you would be so readily accept such an explanation from a wife caught with those text messages on her cell phone. Certainly understandable that the wife here is not convinced. The idea that the only explanation is that she has been waiting for a chance to kick him out to hide her own cheating is a stretch.
> 
> Regardless, he has been unfaithful to the marriage (even if he did not physically cheat). I would agree that separating over this will not help them work through things.


Well, the wife here isn't behaving in the usual manner. She's acting more like a man. Of course, lots of people's behaviors fall outside the typical, but this actually is typical behavior of a woman already in her own affair. Occam's razor. . 

OP didn't say he had incriminating texts; maybe he did, but he didn't say that. He just said they were texts. Remember, OP implies he hasn't been getting any action for a long while.

Unfaithful = adultery so far as I'm concerned, but it's an elastic term.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Someone please help me understand why we should suspect the wife of cheating in this situation. This is the second time OP has had EA/inappropriate friendships with women. In most threads on TAM, the BS would not seem unreasonable to want a separation/divorce. 

The wife outed everything to the family. If she herself was cheating, why bring any unnecessary scrutiny to her life?

And I think OP said that WIFE found incriminating texts by HIM, not the other way around.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Well, the wife here isn't behaving in the usual manner. She's acting more like a man. Of course, lots of people's behaviors fall outside the typical, but this actually is typical behavior of a woman already in her own affair. Occam's razor.


Hardly. The fact that she is acting "unusually" (whatever that means) does not most simply lead to the conclusion that she cheating cheating (based on an implication at best). Perhaps she is getting advice on a board like this, which advises strong action and not believing a cheating spouse. Perhaps she is just hurt. Perhaps this is not the first time he has done something stupid to cause doubt. 



> OP didn't say he had incriminating texts; maybe he did, but he didn't say that. He just said they were texts. Remember, OP implies he hasn't been getting any action for a long while.
> 
> Unfaithful = adultery so far as I'm concerned, but it's an elastic term.


Lot's of folks with a spouse in an EA that would disagree. I can say that if my wife had been texting a stranger she met at a bar, I am calling that unfaithful to out marriage (particularly if I had to find it myself), and she would say the same for me. Regardless, it is inappropriate to most people.

Edit - actually, it was not the first time he has done something dumb. From his original post:



> It doesn't help that at one other time in our marriage I corresponded with a female via skype and she really never got over it.


But hey, she is not acting normal, so clearly she is a cheating ***** and he would be well to get rid of her.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

I'm curious to know just how many texts Flyer37 exchanged with this woman. Was it something like ten, or several hundred? Thousands? And what was the content? Sexting? Knowing more would help guage whether the wife's response is reasonable.

From what is known at this point, I agree with Mach that the wife's actions are different. Maybe she's a pure Alpha female who has no tolerance for unfaithfulness. She's a woman with options. Ha ha!

Since Flyer37's wife's response is not the norm, at this point a little investigative work (VAR, check emails, phone records, etc.) might not be a bad idea. She does seem very eager to separate.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Here's the thing, guys. My ex-husband was a serial cheater. My tolerance for the sort of thing OP had going on with the OW is pretty much zero. If I ever found that a future spouse of mine was engaging in an extra-marital relationship with another woman, even if it was nothing more than texting, he would return home to find his stuff on the lawn and the locks changed. I don't "do" tolerant anymore. Not because I am cheating, or have cheated, or even want to cheat. But because I simply have no patience for being anyone's fool anymore. And surer than hell, no one get's _third_ chances with me. Maybe that makes me odd or more like a guy or unusual. But it's just the way I am at this point. 

This is the OP's second ride on this particular merry-go-round. He's apparently been asking his already betrayed wife to trust him to behave appropriately, while he works a travelling job and has already demonstrated that he has poor boundaries with other women. Now he's asking her to believe that, despite the texting with OW, he never actually cheated. Even though he had the opportunity to do so. Why should she believe him? 

If they're going to have any chance at fixing this, OP needs a new job. One where he's home - or at least not separated from his wife - every night. He needs to be completely transparent in every aspect of his life, they need to work on addressing any problems in the marriage, create and maintain excellent boundaries, and work on meeting one another's needs and building a safe, loving marriage that works for both of them. And you cannot do all that when one spouse or the other is gone half the time. If he doesn't want to do those things, he needs to respect his wife's decision to end a marriage that is clearly providing a breeding ground for cheating opportunities. 

And yes, those opportunities exist for both spouses. But he's the one who's here, with a history of inappropriate extra-marital relationships. Unless or until she is also shown to be cheating, he needs to be working on fixing his end of things. There's plenty of room for improvement.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

As a wife in R due to her H's EA, I guess I understand the OP's wife's attitude. My H changed jobs, has done a ton of heavy lifting for our relationship. But if there is ever another EA/PA/inappropriate friendship/etc., I'm done. I will not even discuss R a second time, because frankly, this first R is pretty much draining everything I have inside. That's my tolerance level, take it or leave it.

Here we have a man on his second EA with a job that requires him to be gone quite a bit so there's no way for her to get past her fears except blind faith in her husband's weak boundaries. What on earth is so strange or suspicious about a BS saying "No thanks, I'm done"?

OP - if you are on here, can you please post any info on your wife. Has there been any indication that she could be having an affair, other than she is pi$$ed at you and wants to leave? I think that info might be helpful for continuing how this thread flows. Thanks!


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Sorry dude, but this is all your fault. Seems like your wife has a high degree of self respect and she isn't going to take that sh1t. The only thing you got going for you is that it never went physical, but she knows the intention was there. Another thing is that she may have also felt the marriage was at a low point and you gave her the perfect exit strategy. 

I do hope that you can make some headway with her over time and learn from your mistakes, but you should have put the same effort into fixing things in the marriage that you put into this other woman.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Looks like Elvis has left the building, so we probably won't get the info on the texting/sexting content. My view is that innocuous texts probably wouldn't be enough to provoke a divorce on its own, unless the wife was already planning on moving on for her own reasons. If the earlier skype business he referred to was sexual and the texts were sexual, it would make more sense.


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## Flyer37 (Dec 15, 2013)

Wow, can't believe the flurry of activity here and thanks for the analysis. The truth of the matter is in both instances, the skype incident and the recent texts were not sexual in nature but friendly. The most recent incident I met this woman in a hotel bar, was at a low point and decided to take her number. I thought this is someone giving me attention and to be perfectly honest, I could have taken things a lot further....but I did not. My wife saw an exchange basically consisting of "great to meet you, hope to see you again."Listen, being in an ultra low point in a marriage and not knowing how to fix it and where to turn really sucks. I have a 2 year old son and thats what seemed to keep life moving before this. I in a sense needed something to change so bad that I was completely indifferent. We have known each other 11 years and in that time there was a host of explosive fighting...fights in which things were said that cut deep. All of those past battles are being conjured up, her imagination is just going wild. My wife comes from a family dynamic where the Matriarch ran the show....my father in law is basically a passive man who does what his wife says. I am not like this in the least....when we have arguments, there is little backing down on either side. My mother in law has always been suspect of my career and what I do on the road and this just confirms her suspicion and more importantly, my wife's suspicion. There is a lot more to this story than me taking this action... This is just the culmination of a toxic buildup of negativity that we never addressed. That being said, we do love each other, I do know that. I have told her I want to work on it but as time goes by I sometimes think where in the hell do I even start to fix this.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

The matriarch response makes sense. That is her upbringing, and how she perceives the dynamic should be. Instead of co-captaining....she wants to run the ship.

On a guess, I'd say that's why you have had a crappy sex life....she thinks she's always in control.

Look, what you did was bad. Even friendly chatter texts to an outside opposite sex party is enough to drive a spouse crazy.

At the same time...if it was me...I would just agree to separate and divorce.

If she's a true matriarch, then it probably wouldn't come to that....maybe a brief separation. Enough to teach you a lesson.

But you will have to go through with it, and see what happens. Maybe she will come back, maybe she won't. No guarantees. 

At the same time, you need to work on yourself. Is bing married to a matriarchal dynamic what you want? Working on yourself, being strong and independent, is what you need to overcome this.

Hell...I'd even start dating after the separation, if you both agreed to it.

But....this dynamic is a bit skewed. You DID screw up big time. As such, if you try to reconcile, there is much work you need to do to make it right. Open passwords. Location tracking. Many texts to her each night, checking in with her often. 

Crap....I'm out of ideas. Machiavelli? Mattmatt? Any ideas?

We have an EA, skewed by a matriarch personality that isn't healthy either, which may explain the stubbornness. .????

Or maybe....she has a lot of self respect and low tolerance. In that case....give her what she wants because it ain't gonna get any better.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Flyer37 said:


> Thanks for feedback everyone. Seems like I dug myself a big hole that's gonna take a long while to climb out of...that's if she's even game to work on it. The hardest part is that this confirms her already insecure view of my job. She has no way to monitor, its all about trust and that is not there. Last night I said I'd do anything to make it work because I truly love her. I received a better response than anticipated...she has to think about it yet she wants to live separate lives for a while. From what I hear in your responses, the trust is never fully recovered...the thing that is really hard is that I know she is willing to forgive but will never forget. In our past arguments the past is used as fuel for the fire...and that is a huge problem. Another hard part is the dirty laundry is out with her family and friends, gonna be hard to deal with. We have , I should say I have an immense task in front of me but I am in love with this person. On that note I think one should do anything to salvage something so important. I really think there's only one or two people in everyone's life that they can imagine spending their life in a relationship with. I just can't go to the grave knowing I didn't to everything in my power to save what I have now.


The reason the past is used to fuel the fire in arguments is because the hurt is still there and the issues have not been fully resolved. I have a feeling your wife is carrying alot of hurt and she may not even be aware of this. She might realize she is angry, feels she cannot trust but she might not be aware that she has not proper dealt with past issues.

My husband had 3 EA, we have been married 21 years and he too is on the road a bit. These situations are very hard to watch play out as the wife, we see what is going on and we realize we are not getting the time and attention this other woman is getting from our husbands. Infact, mine did not even seem interested in me....he loved the attention of someone new, it was exciting. He said the same as you....he had no intentions to divorce me or leave me for one of these women. Thing is if you had been tending to your wife like you had with this other woman your wife would have felt much better about you and the marriage.

I read that it takes 2 years for a marriage to recover from an affair and that EA are harder for women than a sexual affair. I think men sometimes feel it is innocent but whenever you are spending time with another woman getting to know her it is not innocent.

Sounds like you have done everything right to try to make this up to your wife. Next step is MC if she will go. It is very possible there are more issues going on in the marriage if she is complaining to her parents. Also, you have to understand what she needs and what is creating her distance.....are the two of you spending enough time together? Do you ask her to do things with you? Do you still date? Do you cook for her from time to time? Do you still do special things for her and tell her how much she means to you? When she talks are you able to engage in conversation with her? If all you want to do is sit in front of a TV or computer when you get home she is going to feel like you are not interested in her so you might think what else is going on here that would make her feel unloved in the relationship and fix those things.


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## Haru2013 (Oct 23, 2013)

I totally agree the response, the above. I, too have been going through my husband's emotional affair, not once but two or three times that is as serious as pyhsical affair/sex. In my case, the issue has been almost resolved, even though there is some 'suspicious feelings' whenever he comes home late or his weekend activities. The most important thing to resolve the issue is, through the experience, to have similar value on the marriage that is financially and emotionally. Also, the backgrounds is critical. 

Having read your very last post, it sounds like 'compatibility' issue between you and your wife. If really have one, it's very tough to resolve the issue you created.

My suggestion/advice would be to find a competent and experienced marriage counselor or similar expert to help you direct a good solution to this. Because, folks on this board are not professional to handle 'heavy-duty' marital problems.

Good luck to you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Okay, then. So all the contacts were extremely superficial, but had the potential to escalate to an emotional affair or full-blown adultery. Well, dang. Every interaction I have with an attractive woman has that potential, it all depends on what I do with it. If what you say is true, you're blameless, and your wife is unreasonable. The problem is, your wife gets to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Again, this strikes me as an overreaction, even when compared to the usual female reaction to an actual sexual affair. Few women go straight for divorce, unless they've already checked out and have one or more irons in the fire. Normally, female poaching expeditions are directed at men who are by definition "attractive." Furthermore, these attempts are "proof of attraction", so they raise the attraction to a higher level. It's not playing out that way for you.

While there are always going to be deviants, a more typical female response to other females trying to poach is to redouble their efforts to hold their obviously desirable man. Your wife is doing the opposite. Why do you suppose that is? Usually, a monkey doesn't let go of one vine, until it's already grabbed a hold of the next one.

However it is that you find yourself here, if you actually want to stay with her, you have to turn on the attraction now. So, you need to educate yourself on the normal, hardwired, female limbic sexual response. Download Married Man Sex Life and start reading. It's not a sex manual, it's about building and maintaining long term sex appeal. It is all very, very counter-intuitive, especially when dealing with a daughter of the matriarchy.

Another book you definitely need to read is No More Mister Nice Guy.


IIRC correctly, you both make about the same, so she will be living about as well as she lives now, without you and you will soon be worse off.

When is she planning on moving out?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

While it is not impossible that your wife has been having an affair and that is the reason she is so willing to cut the line, you have asked women for contact details. Men don't ask without thinking about having sex. How close were you to acting on it? Perhaps not very, but that could have changed in an instant, especially if the opportunity arose.

Whether or not your wife is unfaithful is worth investigating. In the meantime you can still take action to try and shore up your marriage. Let your wife know what you are doing when you are on the road. Stay out of bars. How can she like you frequenting the places that you are likely to meet women on the prowl?

Write your wife and child a post card every single day you are on the road. Tell them about your day and how much you miss and love them.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Flyer37 said:


> Wow, can't believe the flurry of activity here and thanks for the analysis. The truth of the matter is in both instances, the skype incident and the recent texts were not sexual in nature but friendly. The most recent incident I met this woman in a hotel bar, was at a low point and decided to take her number. I thought this is someone giving me attention and to be perfectly honest, I could have taken things a lot further....but I did not. My wife saw an exchange basically consisting of "great to meet you, hope to see you again."Listen, being in an ultra low point in a marriage and not knowing how to fix it and where to turn really sucks. I have a 2 year old son and thats what seemed to keep life moving before this. I in a sense needed something to change so bad that I was completely indifferent. We have known each other 11 years and in that time there was a host of explosive fighting...fights in which things were said that cut deep. All of those past battles are being conjured up, her imagination is just going wild. My wife comes from a family dynamic where the Matriarch ran the show....my father in law is basically a passive man who does what his wife says. I am not like this in the least....when we have arguments, there is little backing down on either side. My mother in law has always been suspect of my career and what I do on the road and this just confirms her suspicion and more importantly, my wife's suspicion. There is a lot more to this story than me taking this action... This is just the culmination of a toxic buildup of negativity that we never addressed. That being said, we do love each other, I do know that. I have told her I want to work on it but as time goes by I sometimes think where in the hell do I even start to fix this.


You're minimizing what you have done, on at least two occasions you have exchanged contact info with women, while you were married.
The INTENT was there, meaning you knowingly were engaging in contact with other women outside of your marriage for the purpose of having relationships with these women. 
IF there was nothing nefarious in your intent, then you wouldn't have hid the burgeoning relationships from your wife.
I can tell you without a doubt, that if my H had carried on a Skype relationship with one woman, then had a texting relationship with another woman, I would be gone. 
There is no room in our marriage for other people. 
You have extremely low boundaries, for all the love you claim to have for your wife, you have a VERY bad way of showing it. 

While you figure out what you want to do regarding your marriage, at the very least, stay the heck away from hotel bars, it's just bad form at this point.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> While it is not impossible that your wife has been having an affair and that is the reason she is so willing to cut the line, you have asked women for contact details.* Men don't ask without thinking about having sex.* How close were you to acting on it? Perhaps not very, but that could have changed in an instant, especially if the opportunity arose.


This very point has been made by posters on this thread when advising husbands with a cheating wife. 



> Whether or not your wife is unfaithful is worth investigating.


I agree it is worth checking, but very carefully. You are on the defensive, and getting caught checking up on her will just give her more ammunition.



> In the meantime you can still take action to try and shore up your marriage. Let your wife know what you are doing when you are on the road. Stay out of bars. How can she like you frequenting the places that you are likely to meet women on the prowl?
> 
> Write your wife and child a post card every single day you are on the road. Tell them about your day and how much you miss and love them.


I also suggest Not Just Friends. It deals with EAs. Read it and give a copy to your wife to show what you are working on.


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