# Finally told wife how much her attitude is bothering me...need some input please



## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Some of you have read and commented on my last thread about my wife's moods affecting me. Last night, it all came to a head and I had to have a talk with her. It's a little long, but I appreciate any input.

As a little background, we have a 3 year old and 11 month old twins and since they were born, my wife has been very moody and the bad moods have become more frequent and are starting to take their toll on me. She's always been moody, but never like this. In the past, I could handle it pretty well. I am very hands-on and love being with the kids. I do my fair share of housework (we both work FT) and spend lots of time with the kids. She's 43, I'm 34. Money isn't a problem. She's tired a lot so I pick up the slack with kid stuff when needed. Anyway...

It started as a normal ok night. She made a good dinner and we all ate together. Then we bathed the kids and put them to bed. While she put oldest to bed, I came down and did the dishes in the sink. I also put all the bottles in hot soapy water to soak for a bit. Then she came down and started making lunches for tomorrow and I went into the family room to relax and watch TV for a bit. I explicitly told her that I would take care of the bottles (as I do almost every night). She was like, “it’s ok” with a bit of attitude. 

Anyway, she does pans on the stove and then makes the bottles and asks me to come shake them. She’s obviously pissed and I ask why. She says it’s a few things but the recent story of the child getting raped by her father was on her mind and the fact that I went into the other room while stuff still needed to get done made her angry. I told her that I said I would do the bottles and she didn’t have to do them. She was dismissive and said, “I’m going to bed” in an angry manner and that’s when I decided it was time to have the talk.

I told her we needed to talk and she’s like, “ok, talk.” I asked her to come sit down in the family room and she wouldn’t do it. I said fine and basically laid it all out for her. She’s like, “but I’ve told you, I’m happy. I think things are great.” I finally had to spell it out for her and flat out told her I wasn’t happy, I didn’t think things were great and I felt like she had been treating me poorly for quite a while.

She tried to push a lot of it back on me, but I wasn’t having it. I admitted that maybe I need some help dealing with some stuff, but I hadn’t changed, she had changed and it wasn’t working for me. She told me that she would do anything I wanted to try to fix this including going to a doctor (today) and getting tests and blood work done and going to a marriage counselor as soon as I set up the appointment. She was very, very defensive during the entire conversation and I let her know it wasn’t making it very easy, but she told me that she was very surprised about this, thought things were great and was very happy with the marriage. I told her I thought she seemed very unhappy and it seemed like she didn’t like me and she criticized me for everything I did. She asked for examples. I wouldn’t give her any. It’s how I felt and examples would just give her room to argue that somehow this is all my fault.

It was a difficult conversation, but it felt good to get it off my chest. I assured her that I love her deeply and wanted a long, mutually enjoyable marriage and that’s why I was telling her all of this. She told me she loved me too (without much love in her voice) and that she wanted to be with me forever and would do anything I wanted her to do.

The biggest problem I see is that she is happy and is getting everything she needs from the marriage so in her mind, all is well even though I’m not happy and not getting everything I need. In her mind, that’s sort of my problem and makes me needy. She didn’t come out and say it, but I could sense it. “I’m happy, make yourself happy.” Well it’s hard to be happy when your wife treats you like crap and is unappreciative. She’s like, “I try and make you happy. I’ve been hanging my clothes up for you.” I almost laughed at that.

She tried to put it off on various stresses, etc. etc., but I was pretty firm with her. I told her that divorce is not on the plate for me and that I want this to work and know that it can work, but we need a little help communicating and working through this. She agreed. 

I don’t think she really slept much last night. I think she was blindsided by this and is upset even though she’s acting tougher than ever. She did say that she wasn’t sure that she could be the kind of wife that I need and maybe she’s changed over the years and that’s natural as people get older and blah blah blah. I dismissed that notion.

I kept my cool the entire time. Never raised my voice. Never got angry. Did cry a bit. Just couldn’t help it.

Thoughts? Questions? Clarifications?

Thanks for any input.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That was well done! I didn't read your other thread but I have to commend you for staying calm, bringing you feelings and your desire to be treated with respect without looking to her for some hidden reason why you deserve to be treated as she does. Because bottom line, it doesn't matter if you deserve it or not. You insist upon being treated with respect and you will be.

Really bravo!

She is likely to stay in a tiff for a while. She is confused and conflicted. She is overwhelmed with caring for 3 little ones. It's okay that she's in a tif. It's okay that she's overwhelmed and confused/conflicted. Clarity take TIME! Something she simply doesn't have right now.

One little suggestion I have....

As I was reading your post, I recalled how easily distance gets created when a young couple is busy trying to cover all the tasks necessary when raising little ones.

Do things together, side by side. Bath the kids together. Put them to bed together. Wash the dishes together. Touch each other often during these tasks. Share smiles and meaningful eye contact often during these tasks. You won't get as much done, but you WILL keep your marriage stronger than splitting yourselves into separate rooms.

Bravo husband!


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you Anon Pink! I appreciate your comments. It was difficult for me to do as I feel like I've been walking on eggshells for a long time around her.

As an update, We just had a long phone conversation where I tried to explain to her in a little more detail what’s going on with us. She’s worried that we might not survive this and I had to assure her that we would. I told her that I don’t want her to fundamentally change, and that I love who she is, but I want her to step back and consider how she acts towards me. My biggest issue is how she treats me. I simply want her to understand that she is dismissive, critical and passive aggressive towards me and it is starting to take its toll on my psyche. 

She is still pretty defensive and she ended the phone call because she had to go pick up a lunch for an office, but before she hung up she started crying and I asked her why she was crying and she said, “I don’t know…I have to get myself together.” With that, we said “I love you” and hung up. It wasn’t the way I wanted the call to end, but it is what it is.

Years ago she told me that I told her I loved her a lot, but she wanted me to show her that I loved her. I told her the same exact thing last night. I hope she takes it to heart.

I had a dozen red roses sent to our house today as a gesture of my commitment to her and to working through these problems. I hope that was an okay thing to do.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

C123 said:


> She did say that she wasn’t sure that she could be the kind of wife that I need and maybe she’s changed over the years and that’s natural as people get older and blah blah blah. I dismissed that notion.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


Do not dismiss this statement... this is the "my life might just be better without you" thinking

question is.... without you.. but WITH who... that could have been a passive aggressive warning that someone else has been impressing her. Not saying there is an affair here, but would not surprise me if there is someone that has impressed her.

It was this kind of comment made to me in 2012 that triggered my radar and I found out my husband was having an affair.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

just make sure you don't rush in to accuse her! I went into stealth mode first and watched for a while... then when I had something I started to confront, but still was NOT mean, rude or nasty about it.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks BL. I never say never, but I don't believe there is another man. I've always had a need for more affection and emotional closeness than she has. I think her concern is (and she said it outright) is that I'm changing into someone who needs a different kind of wife, i.e., a more mothering, smothering wife. I've assured her that's not true. I love her and who she is. I just can't be treated poorly anymore. That's not asking her to change who she is, just how she behaves towards me. I work too hard to be treated like crap.

If she's having an affair, that will obviously change the situation greatly, but I don't think that's it...but you never know 'til you know.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

C123 said:


> Thanks BL. I never say never, but I don't believe there is another man. I've always had a need for more affection and emotional closeness than she has. I think her concern is (and she said it outright) is that I'm changing into someone who needs a different kind of wife, i.e., a more mothering, smothering wife. I've assured her that's not true. I love her and who she is. I just can't be treated poorly anymore. That's not asking her to change who she is, just how she behaves towards me. I work too hard to be treated like crap.
> 
> If she's having an affair, that will obviously change the situation greatly, but I don't think that's it...but you never know 'til you know.


Right and good for you to take your desires straight to her instead of someone else. Good on you... It was the only time I felt I had to give myself the gift of reassurance by going stealth mode. I am not normally someone who snoops. I like being very hands off. But I have an excellent radar.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

She's not happy. You're wrong about that. Constant bad moods are not a sign of happiness.

This is not a moodiness problem. This is the problem of "the man is always wrong and the source of all my problems".

She wants you to confirm that this way of acting is not appropriate in your marriage. She's been waiting for you to do that. You tolerated way too long which cuased her to become confused and ratchet it up.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Well Hicks, I hope you're right and I hope it's not too late. I'm committed to making this marriage stronger and better. I hope she is too. She seems to be so we'll see.

It's pretty terrible you can spend your entire marriage trying to make someone else's life better, and YOU end up the cause of the problems. I'm not a doormat. I'm a nice person, but not a Nice Guy. However, I go out of my way to make her life better because that's what makes ME happy. Pretty messed up if I end up being the problem. Now I understand why girls like a-holes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I see a few things in your post.

Your wife sounds emotionally fragile right now. She had the twins only 11 months ago. You say that she’s tired these days. It sounds like she has not recuperated entirely from the pregnancy. She’s keeping the same schedule you are, working full time, family life, etc. But her experience in all of this is very much different than yours. At 42 the pregnancy might have been very hard on her. Twins pregnancy can be much harder than a single baby pregnancy (been there, done that). Your wife still needs special care/consideration right now because her body and mental state have not bounced back yet.

Having your wife see a doctor is a very good idea. She might have some postpartum depression. She might need good vitamins. She might need more rest… meaning you might need to be doing more right now and she less. I’d say that a period of 6 months with re-evaluation at the end of the 6 months on whether or not she needs more time to bounce back.

When a person is depressed and tired, they often react by being snippy, picking on the closed person (in this case you). It does not excuse her treating you like this. The way she is acting is a warning sign. You cannot allow her to mistreat you. But you both have to face the fact that she has not changed as a person… it’s just that at this time she is not capable of handling things as well as she was in the past.

She says that she’s happy in your marriage. That does not mean that all is well with her. It’s clear that all is not well with her. Be very careful at taking her statement about being happy in the marriage as the full truth. Right now she’s not a happy person. It’s clear that she is not.

Now about the bottles and the way she acted. I can see why she was annoyed. She is depressed and tired. She is making lunches, etc and you are watching TV/relaxing. Yea I know, you were going to do the bottles later. Sure you should be able to do your chores on whatever schedule you want. But apparently she cannot relax until all the prep for the next day is done. Like AP said, do things together with her. You know that she’s having a hard time. So pitch-in and do things at the same time she is. You could have done the bottles while she was doing lunches. Your wife need extra care right now. If it means that you do a few things on her schedule for now, so what.

To fix a marriage, both of you have to change and make concessions. Every so often a couple needs to reevaluate. Your family has changed with 3 small children. Apparently your wife has changed. You will need to make some changes too. (She’s going to have to make more changes as well to handle her depression, being tired. She will need to learn to handle her frustrations in a way other than picking on you. It might mean that right now she needs more time to rest and take care of herself.

This is a two way street. It's not she's-bad/wrong and you are the good guy. It's that you both have things going on that each of you need to address.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

C123 said:


> Thank you Anon Pink! I appreciate your comments. It was difficult for me to do as I feel like I've been walking on eggshells for a long time around her.
> 
> As an update, We just had a long phone conversation where I tried to explain to her in a little more detail what’s going on with us. She’s worried that we might not survive this and I had to assure her that we would. I told her that I don’t want her to fundamentally change, and that I love who she is, but I want her to step back and consider how she acts towards me. My biggest issue is how she treats me. I simply want her to understand that she is dismissive, critical and passive aggressive towards me and it is starting to take its toll on my psyche.
> 
> ...


Her tears at the end of the conversation were more about her feelings. Really, I have been in your wife's shoes as have so many other young mothers.

I think you are well on your way to getting your marriage back on track. 

You sent her flowers! Awesome! Love it! My husband never did anything like that! Well he did this past year...at year 29!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Hicks; C123 is absolutely right, she is NOT happy. Happy people do not act this way and make others miserable. The question is WHY is she unhappy?

1. hormonal?
2. Midlife/menopause?
3. loss of self esteem?
4. caught in a rut, unhappy with her job, something else external?
5. your behavior patterns

How was she for the first few years of marriage; this is the key!
This is the key, because if she has been basically happy, then that means that something has derailed her psyche and it could be repaired.

On the other hand, if she has been somewhat unhappy for a long time, it could be that her unhappiness has just taken root. That's a much tougher nut to crack.

Go back. think hard. try to unravel beneath the 'honeymoon' phase of the relationship when we all put on our best face and we're in the euphoria or excitement of what we call love.

I think from this sort of analysis of your wife (for your sake, not hers) you can begin to decipher the cause of her unhappiness.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

You are unhappy because she is unhappy. She is making you unhappy because her unhappiness is projected on to you. She is unhappy because_____________?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's been put on notice she can't continue to act the way she has. Now it's up to her to step up. And not whine or complain or cry about it. Just step up.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> She’s like, “but I’ve told you, I’m happy. I think things are great.” I finally had to spell it out for her and flat out told her I wasn’t happy, I didn’t think things were great and I felt like she had been treating me poorly for quite a while.
> 
> She tried to push a lot of it back on me, but I wasn’t having it. I admitted that maybe I need some help dealing with some stuff, but I hadn’t changed, she had changed and it wasn’t working for me. She told me that she would do anything I wanted to try to fix this including going to a doctor (today) and getting tests and blood work done and going to a marriage counselor as soon as I set up the appointment. She was very, very defensive during the entire conversation and I let her know it wasn’t making it very easy, but she told me that she was very surprised about this, thought things were great and was very happy with the marriage. I told her I thought she seemed very unhappy and it seemed like she didn’t like me and she criticized me for everything I did. She asked for examples. I wouldn’t give her any. It’s how I felt and examples would just give her room to argue that somehow this is all my fault.



Sounds familiar. My wife has had a very similar attitude as well for the last year or so. 

I went to a counselor to see what could be done and if it was largely me that triggering things. The counselor didn't see a need for me to come back after one visit but highly pushed the either my wife or both of us go back. That never happened. 

As of yesterday my wife found and went to a different counselor of which she fully admitted that even after telling her every terrible selfish bad thing I did and do she had no interest in seeing me but did want my wife and maybe both of us to keep coming back regularly. Hmmmm....  

Just a guess present data trends would suggest that I may not be 100% of where our problem comes from. :scratchhead:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> Sounds familiar. My wife has had a very similar attitude as well for the last year or so.
> 
> I went to a counselor to see what could be done and if it was largely me that triggering things. The counselor didn't see a need for me to come back after one visit but highly pushed the either my wife or both of us go back. That never happened.
> 
> ...


Of course you are not 100% for all your marriage problems. That's a given.

And it makes sense that a counselor would want to see both of you as it takes 2 to fix a marriage. It's often of no use to just see one of the spouses. That it takes 2 to ruin a marriage an 2 to fix a marriage is the point.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

So I just received some very good professional news I had been waiting on for about 5 weeks. Of course I called her first and we were both ecstatic. It lead to another long conversation where we essentially agreed that:

1. We have different emotional needs
2. We have different expectations regarding the first 1-2 years of raising twins.
3. We need help communicating better with each other.
4. We both need to be direct and honest when something the other does is bothering us. 

She made the point that she can't fix what she doesn't know is broken. I made the same point, i.e., passive aggressive responses to my behavior does not help me change my behavior.

We also reaffirmed to each other how much we love one another and how much we want this marriage to work and last forever. She is very adamant that we find a good counselor and see them as much as needed, but perhaps on a regular, if occasional basis for the foreseeable future. I agree with her and love that she suggested it.

She told me that now that she's had time to think about all of the things I've said, and digest them...and calm down...she understands where I'm coming from.

Overall...the problem is one of communication. I'm sure you long time TAM-ers have never heard that before. 

We need to learn and be better at speaking the language the other speaks best. I don't speak her language well and she doesn't speak my language well, so we need to meet in the middle.

In regards to the twins, she told me that she expected that life would be crazy and difficult for 2 years. I appreciate that, but I don't think that alleviates her responsibility to be kind and civil and loving towards me. She agreed and I agreed that life will probably be tough with these little girls (and the three year old little girl) for a good while longer given how much they need on a daily basis. However, we both agreed to be more open and direct with each other regarding any annoyances or problems we have.

I think it was a great phone call. 

By the way, I am very thankful you all have taken the time to comment on my situation. I look forward to more comments/advice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction.

You mention that you two have different needs and expectation. This is true in every relationship.

In addition to a counselor, I suggest that you get the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters".

Her behavior towards you is a big Love Buster. I have a feeling that you have some behaviors that are Love Busters to her as well... she just has not been open with you about it.

The book will help the two of you talk about this and the solutions.

The two are very good books that could help you quite a bit.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I will say that my husbands lack of ability to see where I was in life, aka exhaustion from caring for a newborn at the age of 40, working full time, driving two hours a day, getting up at dark thirty plus caring for my horses... made me one cranky woman.. He was sleeping in everyday and then some on the weekends. I resented it. 

Glad to hear things are turning a corner.

We women have a bad habit of "appearing" as if we could handle anything because typically we HAVE to, but that doesn't mean we dont want someone to take notice and come along side us and say "honey... I can see you are tired, let me take this over for you and let you get some needed rest." Many times we don't think to speak up because we are running so fast and so hard... just saying.. "offering" without being asked goes a long way... and you may have seriously been doing that... if so .. disregard.. sometimes just venting my own stuff  fully aware.. best of everything to you.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I think you have handled this beautifully! You were respectful and firm. No blame shifiting. Honest. And the flowers- wow! 

I am not sure if it was on your thread or not, but one some similar thread I talked about having post-partum depression. I didn't feel sad or depressed, so I didn't realize I had it.

I did feel anxious, cranky. I had a lot of perseverative thoughts- I would think about things that could go wrong, terrible outcomes for my new son, and what I would do about them. I just figured it was part and parcel of being a new mom and that it would fade with time. In the meantime, I planned just to try to hang in there and control my reactions as best I could.

I was very short with my husband, but to me, I was actually doing pretty well. I told him some of what I thought, but not everything, because honestly a lot of it was very grim and morbid. My snippiness, shortness, was actually good behavior compared to what was in my head. I thought I was holding it off. Still, we had more actual fights during this time than at any other time in our marriage (so far, anyway).

Finally, the day after one of the fights, he sat me down much like you did. He told me that in all the time he'd known me (over 20 years) he had never, ever known me to act like I'd been acting. Something within me had changed. Things were stressful with our new son, but he'd seen me in stressful situations before. Something was wrong, and it had to be fixed. 

So we went to the doctor very soon thereafter. She diagnosed me with post-partum right away. I went on a low dose of Lexapro and very quickly, I felt much, much better. I still had thoughts about what could go wrong, but they were easily resolved. The anxiety went away. My husband told me that he could see the change quickly as well. 

I am throwing this out there in case your wife is similar to me in this. She says things are fine, and it makes me think she isn't actually sad, but maybe just anxious and cranky like I was. The medication really helped. It was the only thing we changed. 

I will forever be grateful to my husband and I respected him tremendously for talking to me straight. I bet your wife feels, or will feel, similarly.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Did the sex ever pick back up?

I see you've added twins since you're first post, so something must have happened.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Did the sex ever pick back up?
> 
> I see you've added twins since you're first post, so something must have happened.


At least once.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for your inputs BL and RA. I really appreciate it. I will file an update on Monday and would love to hear more from everyone.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Did the sex ever pick back up?
> 
> I see you've added twins since you're first post, so something must have happened.


All kids are IVF, so...no! I'll be honest, the sex life has always been a problem, but the least of my problems now. I accept that having twins and three children under 4 will put a damper on the love life.

I will deal with that at a later date if it needs to be dealt with. One thing at a time.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

C123 said:


> All kids are IVF, so...no! I'll be honest, the sex life has always been a problem, but the least of my problems now. I accept that having twins and three children under 4 will put a damper on the love life.
> 
> I will deal with that at a later date if it needs to be dealt with. One thing at a time.


If she's going to the doctor, it may be time for her to go on hormones. For whatever reason, she has no sexual attraction to you and that is never a good thing. Do other women ever approach you?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

C123 said:


> All kids are IVF, so...no! I'll be honest, the sex life has always been a problem, but the least of my problems now. I accept that having twins and three children under 4 will put a damper on the love life.
> 
> I will deal with that at a later date if it needs to be dealt with. One thing at a time.


Don't let it fester too long.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Be careful not to explain or "reason" your wife unnecessarily. State your need. Clarify if asked for. If you keep telling her over and over why she's wrong and the reasons, you may just foster more of the resentment she already has. 

Second, detach from her emotions. If she's upset or cranky let her deal with it. Listen to her, and STFU. Don't fix. Don't tell her why she should be upset. Just STFU. Women don't want to hear this, but sometimes you need to tell her "ok enough" if it's the same issue over and over. I don't tolerate poor behavior. If she's getting angry or pissy I tell her to check her ****. She can be upset, but don't take it out on me. 

Lastly, I've been there done that. Literally have a 7 year old and 2, 3 year olds. THIS IS THE HARDEST TIME IN YOU MARRIAGE. For us the 18 month mark was a turning point. It gets better trust me.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

C123 -

I'm glad things are moving more positively for you - that's a start, at the very least a mood booster for you that you needed.

Now the bad news.

It's still about your masculinity, as I described in your other thread. This is confirmed by several things. Number one, the lack of a quality and regular sex life - even before your kids. Two, the situation in your very first post in this thread - you were still reacting to her emotions. You are still demonstrating to her that she has emotional power over you, that she is in control, she is ultimately leading the relationship when all is said and done. She simply expresses her negative or displeasing emotions, and you react, and ultimately do whatever you can to make her "happy" again. You are not above her emotions, her rock, her man - instead you are sucked into the storm, angry, arguing, crying, complaining, upset. All it will take is another period of time of her moodiness and you will lose your momentum and feel the same way again. Because you're not addressing the fundamental issue.

Not trying to be a jerk, but crying in front of her about your relationship is NOT being calm and firm and masculine. Bottom line - you fear her. You fear her reactions. You fear her being unhappy. You fear her leaving you. You fear her not giving you what YOU need. That is not masculine behavior at all, and will never attract her towards you. 

Also the whole "discussing your relationship" thing. Every single time you "discuss" the relationship with her, you are telling her that you do not know how to handle her. Period. That too is not masculine behavior and will not attract her to you. A MAN simply KNOWS how to handle his woman, himself, his relationship. He CREATES good, positive feelings in her through his ACTIONS. 
You can reason and logic until you are blue in the face, go to counseling together, talk about your feelings and your needs for the rest of your life - but if you are not creating FEELINGS of attraction in her towards you, it's all a complete waste of time. A MAN creates those feelings simply by his actions, his behavior, the way he operates. Words, reasoning, logic, discussions have very little to do with it. Her feelings and emotions that you create within her have everything to do with it.

There are certainly times where a brief statement or two of your values or expectations are communicated, and where a confrontation (done in a manly way, appropriately, which is very important) is necessary. Otherwise, "talking" about the relationship is girlfriend stuff. Not masculine. I haven't "talked about" my relationship with my wife for 9 months, and it's better by far than it ever has been, including (especially) in the bedroom. Because I just DO. I just AM. I am her man and I know how to handle myself and I know how to handle her. I know it, and she knows it. Before that, I was talking about our relationship occasionally, reasonably, logically, and while it felt "good" and I felt I was making "progress" I was actually making things WORSE. I was at my least masculine ever - including letting her emotions affect me just like you are.

NOT trying to beat you up. Trying to help you see the situation more clearly. I am not surprised in the least that you said your sexual relationship has never been that great. This is exactly why. It CAN be better for BOTH of you but you must work on the masculinity for starters. She needs it, and so do you. I hope you understand where I am coming from. I see that your heart is fully into your wife and you will do whatever you need to in order to create the best relationship possible. But you're stuck in the new age way of thinking and it will continue to doom your relationship. It's already evidenced by the lacking sex life and your way of reacting to her emotions. There is a clear cut way to remedy both of those situations and your relationship will be better than both of you ever imagined. 

But you have to see how it's about fixing YOU, not her. You get this on some level, you were starting to understand I thought in the other thread. Bringing her into it will only get you so far. She's trying to follow your lead, and this is why you are seeing some positive results. But if you continue with the boyish or girlfriend behavior and not improving your masculine skills, it will still ultimately result in the same thing, and it will catch you off guard and turn your world upside down. Remember - she thought she WAS happy. YOU knew she wasn't, but SHE didn't seem to know she wasn't. There's a very powerful message in that.

I'll leave you with this - all the things she is saying now are great and wonderful and optimistic. But when you find that you start having problems again (or they simply continue), that she just doesn't seem to be "getting it", that she said she understood but then starts saying she "doesn't know how she feels" or is "confused" or some variation of that, isn't living up to her end of the bargain, changes her mind or makes unreasonable demands from you, you start feeling resentful and frustrated, etc... remember what I've said here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hmm, that adds a whole new spin on things.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

justtryin said:


> C123 -
> 
> I'm glad things are moving more positively for you - that's a start, at the very least a mood booster for you that you needed.
> 
> ...


Despite increasing heroic efforts by the vox populi, masculinity and femininity are the internalized true representations of self. You understand them by clearing away the cobwebs and looking deeply within. Everything else is simply an adoption of a persona, created by someone else looking to share what worked for him or her. The good news is: you get to decide which approach to take.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I totally have to agree with C123. The times that my husband has been calm assertive and centered in himself has been a SERIOUS turn on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

justtryin said:


> Also the whole "discussing your relationship" thing. * Every single time you "discuss" the relationship with her, you are telling her that you do not know how to handle her.* Period. That too is not masculine behavior and will not attract her to you. A MAN simply KNOWS how to handle his woman, himself, his relationship. He CREATES good, positive feelings in her through his ACTIONS.


that's it right there.

If you have to have "discussions about the relationship" with a woman, you ain't doing it right.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I didn't read your other thread. I am happy you were able to tell her how her behavior towards you is disrespectful & inappropriate. There are NO excuses for her bad behavior. If she is depressed, help is out there. 

Let me ask you this - does she treat her co-workers, family members & friends this way?

If the answer is no then it is simply a case of partner emotional abuse. Put an end to it.


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## 4tuneate_man (Apr 6, 2014)

Hi, I hope I am not posting this out of turn but if its ok with you I'd like to share what I have discovered over the years.

Well done on keeping your calm. To me, the most important rule I live by in my marriage is that words can never be taken back. Words spoken at the alter can bind you, whilst words spoken in anger will rip and tear your partner to pieces. Words returned to you will do the same and then they will replace the wedding vows and memories of your special day and haunt you for years to come.

I guess the second point on the same line, is that words carry into the heart and then into the hearts of you children.

A marriage is strange concept which evolves or devolves over time regardless of the people involved. It hits everyone. The trick for couples is that both parties have to be willing and when only partner sees the devolution it is hard to swing it the other way.

People are odd things. I was fortunate in to have marriage explained to me in these terms regarding people and motives.

I hope you don't mind if I share.

People are broken into three types of, I don't know, personalities lets call it.

It applies to both sex's but is expressed differently in the sex;s.

The three types are 

Emotive
Harmonious
Detached

None of them are negative and none of them are positive, and they are *only a generalization*. Everyone is different but it does give one pause to think on approaches.

Here is how Emotive was explained to me. These are the men and women who are quick to love and quick to anger. They will embrace you or chastise you in the same breath. How they approach problems and love is with a passion. Their are negatives and positives to such position.

Harmonious are the men and women who like to see other people happy. These are the peace keepers who keep their own thoughts and feelings to themselves. This too has positives and negatives as pent up frustrations are not spoken but tend to blow up.

Detached are the men and women who do not associate emotions and sex together. Most things are based on outcomes and needs not based on practicality. Don't et me wrong. I'm trying not to describe Vulcans.

Once I grasped that I was able to understand the drives in marriage

Emotional Drive (This includes all of the states, depression, fatigue, happiness, closeness etc.)
Wealth
Libido (Note, I was told sex drive was part of libido as libido includes fantasy versus desires.)



OK, so how does any of this apply to this post?

Well, You sound to me like a Harmonious guy who's reached his point he would something to change. That's not a bad thing at all as marriage.

So the trick for me was to identify the generalized type I was. I then sat down with my wife after a lovely dinner and we looked at the three generalizations and how they applied.

It made a very big difference in my marriage to date and I am humbled that we have been fortunate to have someone take the time and explain this to us.

You will know in your mind while you read this what category you see yourself and your marriage, even if you don't believe it. Yes their are lots of flaws as everyone is different but lets look at some approaches.

Lets assume your wife is in category A based on your post and you are category B. I am taking a leap here and it is just an example.

If she is emotive (or expressive) then she will have a need for balance as things will frustrate her. I take this from your example of the bottles. It was explained to me that emotive (I prefer the term expressive) men and women enjoy a feeling of balance and assistance in their lives. Their are rules and do's and dont's and they don't mind letting anyone know. Note this can either be in quiet manner or louder manner depending no the person. I am hopefully not portraying these people as raving emotional disasters which is not the case.

Harmonious men and women tend to keep the peace but at the same time they tend to wait to be asked or act out of end necessity. Most of the time they are oblivious to an issue until it has been made aware to them because they are people of routine and 'blissfully unaware.'

Anyways, if you think this applies or is helpful then the next task is to determin what approach is best *to open a dialogue* because at the end of the day, no matter who is involved in comes down to both parties identifying the change in their marriage and adapting.

Money, Emotion or Libido? 

Emotions -Tired partners may be tired for a hundred reasons. Children? Babies. Feelings of being overwhelmed? Lost? Undesired? Exhausted? Alone? 

Money - Budget? Spending habits? Control? Debt? Rich is not what you make but what you have left over.

Libido - The curse to men is how to approach. The curse for women is supply and demand. 

All three need to be in synch or each day will drag into the next. I feel like I've babbled a bit now and I've gone off topic but it all leads up to this.

She has let slip that her life may be better with drastic change. Don't ignore that statement. There is nothing more soul destroying in life than divorce. It leaves you with a hole in your soul that will never be the same again.

I took the time to write this in the hope that perhaps it can supply you with some tools as, at the end of the day, everyone is unique and no amount of sciency facts can superceed the knowledge you have of your beloved wife. 

Thank you for listening.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

If you had told her that divorce is on the table then she would have prorbably acted differently and this would have been a wake-up call for her.



_" but before she hung up she started crying and I asked her why she was crying and she said, “I don’t know…I have to get myself together.”
" She’s worried that we might not survive this .."_

I don't know why but from your posts, I'm getting the idea that soon, she might give you the "I love you but not IN love with you" speech. 


Although you THINK you're not a nice guy, there are some "nice guy" qualities that are reflected in your posts.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

C123 said:


> She asked for examples. I wouldn’t give her any. It’s how I felt and examples would just give her room to argue that somehow this is all my fault.
> .


Just out of curiosity why not provide examples? I know it would have made her defensive but could have been a great way to illustrate the specifics of what she is doing.

All the rest I think you did a great job!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

justtryin said:


> C123 -
> 
> I'm glad things are moving more positively for you - that's a start, at the very least a mood booster for you that you needed.
> 
> ...


Amen.

Not all women need or want the same from their men, but you've pretty much described to a T what I want and need from mine. 

When my husband behaves like the OP, I behave like his wife, which causes my husband to further focus on "fixing" our relationship, which pushes me even further into lack-of-attraction land. 

It's a vicious circle that we have finally come to understand and address. It takes work on both our parts, but at least we understand it.


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## MisterG (Jan 24, 2014)

Women (and men) and marriages come in many varieties. My wife responds the way *justtryin* described. Not every woman and every marriage is like that, but mine is. From reading this thread and your previous thread, I'm going to guess that your wife is a lot like mine. If you strongly disagree, skip the rest of this post. Otherwise ...

Staying calm seems to be key. Know your limits and don't let things get so bad that you become emotional. It may be that you and your wife do best if you take on different roles in the marriage. Let your wife be the emotional one, and you take the role of a stable force in the home. Let her rage if it helps her (she might just need to blow off steam), listen and be calm. And then handle the situation if there is something that needs to be done. Don't let her bad mood get you down, and be the one who gets things done. She will respect you for it.

Also, set _reasonable_ boundaries for yourself. Don't be a jerk, but don't jump up whenever she gives you a dirty look. If you've been working all day and you want to take 30 minutes to watch TV before finishing the dishes, then do it. If your wife says something, tell her what your doing and why. If she doesn't like it, too bad (as long as it's reasonable). 

And don't forget, young kids add a lot of stress for everyone, so you need to take that into account too. 

This probably sounds contradictory, but there is a sweet spot in there for your wife and your marriage, and you need to find it. Read *justtryin's* post a couple times. Read it slowly. 

Don't try to change everything at once, but take a step or two and see how it goes. It may take a while to change your habits. Be patient and keep working on it.



justtryin said:


> C123 -
> 
> I'm glad things are moving more positively for you - that's a start, at the very least a mood booster for you that you needed.
> 
> ...


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