# Need Marriage Advice - Please



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

Hi and thank you in advanced for reading my post.

I am 24 years old, as is my wife, and a few months ago she told me she didn't love me anymore and wanted me out of the house. What led up to all this? I, now aware, was basically a terrible husband. We have two small children, our first when we were 18 years old, this expedited our marriage ideas and we were married before my daughter's birth. After my daughter's birth we moved into our first home, I was addicted to playing video games and often played them at every moment available. I was all-around terrible, ignoring my wife, my kids on occasion, terrible during my wife's pregnancies, and an all-around jerk if something was standing in my way of doing what -I- wanted.

We bought a house together, and my trends continued. After a terrible argument over something I can't remember, my wife told me she was done, that she wanted me out, that our relationship was over, and she didn't love me anymore. There's nothing there she says. Hearing this, despite all the hints of it before, I was awoken. What kind of person had I been? How SELFISH had I been? I felt terrible, I begged for her forgiveness, to see the person I was when we were dating, when I wasn't trying to escape responsibility by gaming and doing what -I- wanted. After a day or two of thinking she decided "okay, lets try this."

It has now been 5 months since our talk. Our sex life has gone up and down, down most recently. During our 5 month "try" period, I caught her messaging an older gentleman that she works with, several hundred texts and hours of calls while I'm at work (she works nights, I work day.) She hid him from me originally when I asked, but after a few minutes gave in and explained that it was an ear, someone she could vent to, someone that she enjoyed their attention. She had been sending this person MMS messages (of what I don't know) that she says are her face, which he would reply "cute." - I have never suffered anxiety before, but learning this had happened flipped some sort of switch in my brain that I didn't know was there. Since then, she occasionally sees this person at work, sometimes with my children (it's a store, she takes the children there once a week to shop), but their texts/calls have ceased (it has been roughly 2 months). I have been dealing with terrible anxiety as of late, who did you call, what did you say, who texted you, let me see your phone. I was struck with fear that my relationship was ending already, but now possibly someone else was stepping in to fix it! Finally, last month, we had a large meltdown. I again made a realization about myself that, my anxiety and worry was not helping anything. My wife was making it clear and begging me to believe her that noone else is being hidden, and noone else will, that she knows it was wrong. I still deal with the anxiety from this daily and ponder sometimes, but I have finally stopped checking various places for information that doesn't exist.

SO - I am still having anxiety issues with our relationship, if my wife is aggravated, comes off as even remotely in a bad mood, seems quiet, ETC... I panic, my mind races 100,000 words per second in thoughts of "what's wrong, does she love me? will she love me? will she see the person I actually am, how regretful I am?", eventually I get to the point where I'd prefer suicide over having these thoughts, and the only thing that helps remedy them is TALKING to her about them. Every 2-3 days i'd say there is some kind of conversation about how we are doing, what I should do, If i'm doing something wrong, why she doesn't love me. She continues to openly say that she isn't IN LOVE with me and wants to try to be, this literally bring me to tears, she tells me that she feels bad i'm upset but can't care because she was upset from my neglect for so long. A day or two will pass with no anxiety, and things will seem okay, she will seem like she is happy, occasionally requesting space I.E. sitting on the other couch or actually requesting me to go play a game alone... which I think I can understand. However, this cycle has continued now for months. I continue to relapse in fear and ask her about things because her mood seems to be off-putting, aggravated, distant. It is as if we are on repeat in a series of my anxiety wondering if this is ever going to be fixed, her response is always "it needs time, I don't know."

What should I do in my position? Despite her aggravated, distant signs occasionally - should I let them be? Not ask what is the matter, if I've done something, If she is resenting me more than usual today? I fear this is literally driving me insane and has taken its toll on me. Just typing this out feels like a thousand pounds lifted off my shoulder, only to be placed back on later when she is off work. Another thing we are struggling with is ME initiating any sexual act. We occasionally are still active sexually, most usually at 2-3AM in the middle of sleep oddly enough I will be awoken by her. However, I have tried on numerous occasion to initiate this myself, only to be declined. After so many times I asked why this was, after pestering and pestering she broke down and said she doesn't even want me to touch her and is disgusted by it knowing that I never wanted anything to do with her before except sex when I was ignoring her... I can also understand this but it bothers me to no end because I am trying to change, with what seems to be no result, which then restarts my worrying, and I ask about it, with a pissed off response.

If you make it all the way through the above, I thank you for your time. I'm in desperate need of some type of advice, I talk to noone because we decided to keep this between ourselves (despite her work friend who is now out of the picture primarily). What should I do?


----------



## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Are you in marriage counseling?

Are you absolutely sure she is no longer talking with this guy?

It sounds like she is/was in an emotional affair, and she is probably comparing everything you do with him.

I would suggest marriage and individual counseling.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay of if I understand this you suck (ed) as a husband and she is cheating...and she wants toy to leave...first thing first don't leave the house, if you even want to remotely work on your marriage you need to stay and work it.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

I am 99.99% certain that she is not cheating, she has made that very clear. Was it possibly leading up to it? yes I think so. She was very upset that I discovered she was talking to him, and said she was just using him as an ear, to get advice from, to talk about our relationship with, he himself is married and quite older than her. She says she knew that I would not be a fan of her talking about or relationship to someone, particularly a guy, because she would feel the same way.

She has said multiple times that she doesn't want her talking to someone for a few days heavily about our relationship and enjoying their attention to be the end of our relationship, it upsets her a great deal if I talk about it and worry about it, I have stopped worrying about this part and this subject can primarily be skipped over, to me it seems she is being honest in saying all of this, and there have been 0 texts / calls to or from him, and any other app that could possibly involve secret messaging is always clean, even when I checked her phone off guard. I think she was genuinely using him as a vent.

We are not in marriage counseling, though it is something we could consider. With our incredibly busy schedules and noone to watch the kids besides eachother, this would possibly be more stressful for us both to try and get to a counselor.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

I feel like I should sit down with her tonight when she gets off work, warn her that what I'm about to say is not anxiety-produced questioning and worrying, but genuine wonder. Should we go to marriage counseling? Do you want to continue this relationship? I cannot handle the anxiety and depression of wondering if you're going to stay with me, it has been 5 months and you continue to say that not enough time has passed. I also feel like doing this is just going to piss her off, and she will tell me I'm rushing things, and she has no answers.

I don't know what I should do! Back off? Push more to see if this relationship is something she wants? She always says she doesn't know.


----------



## unlywed (Jan 24, 2017)

*Re: Marriage Help - Do I stay, try, or go?*

Damn dude, this sounds hard. There are a lot of resources out there and you did good posting here. Divorce can be very difficult. Look here for advice to follow though before you do it divorcetennessee.org 

Now, she states she doesn't love you anymore. This is rough. I can only imagine why you have anxiety. It sounds like to me she has a complex issue. She may resent you at this point and enjoys seeing you hurt. Speaking to a counselor yourself may be a great step. Having someone to talk to in person about your anxiety and the abuse you have been put through should be your top priority. It is hard letting someone go, think of it like pulling off a band aid, the slower you go the longer the pain, and either way you look at it, that band aid is coming off. I hope for your own sake you realize the abuse and headgames she is playing with you, god help you. 

Cheers .


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Geez. You are in a bad spot sweetheart. 

I will never say a situation is hopeless. Here is what concerns me the most about your story. It's the years of neglect on your part. For myself and most women, we give and give and give and give. We provide second, third and thirty third chances. We tell our husbands what it is that needs to change. Sadly, many husbands don't hear it until we have given up and fallen out of love. Then SUDDENLY they finally hear us. Only when it is too late. Once this happened in my first marriage, there was nothing that could have changed my mind. Did I agree to stay and try some more once my husband saw that I was really done? Yes. I figured what harm could come from trying again? If only for my kids, I could stay another year...I had no man on the side or anything. So was there harm from me staying? Not really...other than wasting another year of my life in misery, and giving him perhaps a tiny amount of false hope. But you know what, it was still too late. I was done. Done, done, done.

I can see no harm in you asking to go to marriage counseling. If she agrees, maybe they can help you? Hire a babysitter. Never use that as an excuse, it's pathetic. Maybe you can get to a point when you can essentially court her again, romance her and perhaps she can fall back in love. If she can't, then you have to own this. Video games and selfishness lost you a good woman, and the mother to your babies. LEARN from your mistakes and undoubted immaturity you showed at your age. If it ends up that you divorce and you fall in love again someday, never neglect your wife. Listen to what she says. Believe it when she tells you she is unhappy and the things you can do to improve. 

If either of your sets of parents have successful marriages, consider agreeing to confide in them, and let them help you. I wish I would have done that sooner. It's hard to go to your parents and admit your marriage is in peril. They will find out one way or the other. Why not let them give you some sage advice, as they are the people who love you both the most? Even if they don't have great marriages, why not talk to them now? Also, if you are spiritual, consider talking to your church and asking for help there, as that can help too.

For you and your babies sakes, I hope she will accept the idea of counseling, and that you can find a great one that can help you.
I'm rooting for you. I truly hope it isn't too late.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

We see this all the time on here... she's probably cheating. She went underground. You need to really look hard. Do you check cell phone records online? Do you grab her phone when she's not looking and see what apps are running? You neglected her. She left the marriage a long time ago. Find out what you're up against. If you two don't spend $$$ on therapy, you have no hope. 

What are you doing to deal with your anxiety?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I merged your two threads as they were about the same topic.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You seem very needy, OP. Your wife already has two little kids to take care of. She needs support to do that. It sounds like instead of getting that from you, she gets more neediness. That has to be draining for her.

At the same time, it is good that you are so honest and open with her, and she with you. Transparency builds trust. It cannot necessarily build compatibility, though. Natural compatibility may be what you two are lacking.

You could try counseling. Working on getting support for your neediness would help a lot. Could you go to your dad for help? Could he guide you to becoming a more secure and helpful husband? Do you think he has been one himself?

One thing you could do is to start doing practical things that could help her. What jobs around the house or with the kids could you take over that would free up her time? Do them, and encourage her to spend that freed up time on something she enjoys. 

Also, when you go to talk to her, try to ask about her day, her concerns, rather than wanting her to reassure you. All that need for reassurance is going to feel like one big drag to her. She needs energy from you, not her energy just going to you.

Hope that helps. Good luck.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

JLD - Thank you, you are exactly right about being very needy and I am aware of this - I will become aware of this after talking to my wife and regret being what I would consider a "cry-baby" when she reassures me about where things are - then a day or two later I restart the cycle of worry and concern if I notice that she seems quiet, I'll begin to wonder what she is thinking, and stress myself until my chest is so tight that I physically NEED to talk to her about where things are, though the result is always the same - she doesn't know, and some days are better than others. For the last few months I have been doing everything I can, while coming off genuinely happy to be doing them - going out more at every chance with her and the kids, cleaning the house, dishes, laundry, back rubs and hair playing! After a bit she will grow distant and says she feels overwhelmed, that she is used to being alone. I can understand this, and feel like if I backed off when she needed it that things would progressively get better, though at the same time I feel like backing off will NOT help and would return things how they were before. I need to stop with the reassurance.

GuyInColorado - I am very careful and anxious about the cheating subject, and after 2 months of literally tracing every call - be it a doctor, friend, etc. and confirming it was who she says, watching every text / call on our phone records, checking her phone unexpectedly and trying to find SOMETHING numerous times, I finally believe that she isn't cheating, and never really was. I can tell she is genuine when she says that there is noone else, that she regrets going to an older coworker for advice / venting purposes, and won't do it again, she is very sincere about this and I can tell, especially after watching her like a hawk for 2 months and literally losing sleep over it. I continue to check the records / her location, etc... but I am doing it FAR FAR less than I was before - I do not think cheating is going on. Currently I am doing nothing to cure my anxiety, except taking the addicting drug of reassurance that my wife provides. Once I get this, I am calm for a day or two - but she is aggravated because I cannot stop poking at this open wound. It is a cycle that isn't working and I'm trying to find a way to get it under control - I believe this forum might help.

Spicy - Thank you, this entire situation was made from my hands and I know that - that's why I hate to push and push for answers when I know that I AM the one who caused the damage in the first place, and I'm expecting instant repair, an instant answer as to rather or not she is going to stay with me. I ask her constantly if she is only staying for the financial security, the stress of not knowing where she would go, etc.. she is genuine in telling me that if she wanted to go, she would go, so I think there is some shred of hope. One day things seem to improve, and the next she is a bit distant, and I'll melt down in stress and anxiety and it makes things much worse. I cannot initiate any sexual act, but those acts are still there occasionally, only engaged by her - It is obvious that she is still attracted to me physically, which is comforting - thankfully an addiction to gaming somehow didn't bring massive weight gain from sitting eating junk food all the time. My father was a HUGE video game addict when I was growing up, to the point where my mother divorced him. This really messed with me when I was younger - jumping between two parents, I resented my dad for being that way.. I always told myself I'd never be like my old man - but that's exactly what I am. Both of my parents are very judgemental and talking to them would be a VERY bad idea - I would only consider this if I knew for 100% certain things were failing - probably because I would have to move back in with them until our house sold and my wife found financial security to afford a place of her own.

Unlywed - It is very rough! Although I am not the victim here, and if what I am receiving could be considered "abuse" I most certainly deserve it. I put my wife into a place of despair and loneliness for years and was blind to it - now that I am in this position, I am melting down - that's karma for you. My wife explains to me that she truly feels terrible that I am scared and alone occasionally - but she cannot bring herself to genuinely comfort me because that is something she never received from me and she struggles to give it back. Talking to anyone is not an option because we are keeping this between us, we both agree there may be hope but we need to wait and see - I am just struggling to calm myself down and let a solution arise - let time pass - let wounds heal. I can say that talking on this forum has helped immensely, but other things have helped in the past and the anxiety comes right back days later.

Thanks for all of your responses, I tried to reply individually in my post - if this isn't the way to respond, let me know - I don't usually post on forums.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So assuming she's no longer cheating (and it was at least leading to an emotional affair), what she would need from you right now is proof that you are ACTIVELY learning how to become a better husband and father and ACTIVELY taking steps to do so. It may take a year before she'll believe you're serious. Six years of bad behavior is hard to look past and believe you've really changed. What ARE you doing to change?


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

turnera said:


> So assuming she's no longer cheating (and it was at least leading to an emotional affair), what she would need from you right now is proof that you are ACTIVELY learning how to become a better husband and father and ACTIVELY taking steps to do so. It may take a year before she'll believe you're serious. Six years of bad behavior is hard to look past and believe you've really changed. What ARE you doing to change?



I think you're right in saying that quite some time will probably be necessary - I'm just finding it incredibly hard to be the one in the lonely position and let time pass without begging for answers.

I changed myself completely once all this started - but I changed because -I- wanted to change, not for my wife, or my kids. I have stopped gaming altogether, unless my wife is at work and my children are in bed. I listen to my wife at every given chance and I am genuinely interested, I compliment her regularly - but not over-the-top in a manner that would seem forced, very subtle. I have started doing more around the house, cleaning, fix-me-ups that need done. I changed myself entirely to revolve around what SHE wants in a husband - and I'm loving it, it almost feels like a new relationship to me, and I think that's why things are so hard for me mentally - she is on the opposite end of the spectrum, it feels like a failed relationship to her, with a horrible neglectful person who has suddenly shown real change. I need to give her time, I'm mentally trying to get to the stage where I can give that to her, and continue to have positive vibes and do what I can - but it is SOOO hard knowing that, despite my efforts, this all could crumble at any time if she decides it isn't working.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Broken1011 said:


> I think you're right in saying that quite some time will probably be necessary - I'm just finding it incredibly hard to be the one in the lonely position and let time pass without begging for answers.
> 
> I changed myself completely once all this started - but I changed because -I- wanted to change, not for my wife, or my kids. I have stopped gaming altogether, unless my wife is at work and my children are in bed. I listen to my wife at every given chance and I am genuinely interested, I compliment her regularly - but not over-the-top in a manner that would seem forced, very subtle. I have started doing more around the house, cleaning, fix-me-ups that need done. I changed myself entirely to revolve around what SHE wants in a husband - and I'm loving it, it almost feels like a new relationship to me, and I think that's why things are so hard for me mentally - she is on the opposite end of the spectrum, it feels like a failed relationship to her, with a horrible neglectful person who has suddenly shown real change. *I need to give her time, I'm mentally trying to get to the stage where I can give that to her*, and continue to have positive vibes and do what I can - but it is SOOO hard knowing that, despite my efforts, this all could crumble at any time if she decides it isn't working.


this. as hard as it will be, you have to back off and not smother her.

you need to take on a calm demeanor. you need to suck it up. busy yourself doing things around the house, but try to do other activities too by yourself.
give her distance and space without being really detached. let her know by deeds that you are there for her, not by words.

i know it's hard. i was once where you are. panicky. all consumed. a nervous wreck. but this is what you have to do. it's your best shot.

i'm glad you are taking complete ownership of your screw-up. good luck. it's not over till it's over.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

jorgegene said:


> this. as hard as it will be, you have to back off and not smother her.
> 
> you need to take on a calm demeanor. you need to suck it up. busy yourself doing things around the house, but try to do other activities too by yourself.
> give her distance and space without being really detached. let her know by deeds that you are there for her, not by words.
> ...


Thank you for the encouragement, I will keep working on taking a calm demeanor. An example of how my mind works: She just texted me today and saw an old headset laying around, she asked me where I got it (assuming I just purchased it without telling her). I told her that I bought it ages ago and she knew about it, she replied "Oh". I asked why, she just said she'd never noticed it before. Then I asked what she's doing, she says "watching tv", so IN MY HEAD I am battling asking her: why so short? what's wrong? why ask about the headset?, but at the same time.. I rationally know that she is short because she is probably watching a movie and handling the kids and had just never noticed the headset before.. I guess I will continue to be as calm as possible in every situation despite my racing brain


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Broken1011 said:


> Thank you for the encouragement, I will keep working on taking a calm demeanor. An example of how my mind works: She just texted me today and saw an old headset laying around, she asked me where I got it (assuming I just purchased it without telling her). I told her that I bought it ages ago and she knew about it, she replied "Oh". I asked why, she just said she'd never noticed it before. Then I asked what she's doing, she says "watching tv", so IN MY HEAD I am battling asking her: why so short? what's wrong? why ask about the headset?, but at the same time.. I rationally know that she is short because she is probably watching a movie and handling the kids and had just never noticed the headset before.. I guess I will continue to be as calm as possible in every situation despite my racing brain


like i said, i know how it is. hanging on her every word, trying to figure out where she is in her head. i kept a diary writing down things she said and then ruminating
for days over 'what did she mean?'. it's torture.

the only thing that worked is backing off.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Broken1011 said:


> She says she knew that I would not be a fan of her talking about or relationship to someone, particularly a guy, because she would feel the same way.


So she is entitled to do this to you, but you would not be able to do it to her? That's BS. Plus she wants to constantly keep you in limbo saying she's not in love with you anymore. I would try to find ways to monitor her phone. Get the phone records from your carrier and maybe consider a VAR in her car. I'm not sure she's telling you the truth. As far as talking to her about this any further I would totally stop. Nothing she's going to tell you is going to ease your mind. You need to get the phone records and find what has been going on.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't know if I would monitor her phone or not at this point, OP.

Here is what I would do.

First, work on you. Read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine. It is a great book to learn how to identify what is important in life (principles), then using said principles for all of life's decisions.

Get fit. Work out. Lift heavy things. Take a kickboxing or martial arts class. Challenge yourself physically. It is hard to be anxious when you exhaust yourself physically, plus it will improve your appearance and self esteem.

Stop engaging her in dialogue about the relationship. If she wants to discuss it, then do so, but not by asking if she is in or not, but rather by listening to her concerns, validating them, and then simply saying something to the effect of "I am working to become a man people can respect. I hope that includes you.". Then shut up. Nothing more unless she asks specific questions. However, the theme of every question answered regarding the relationship should always come back to you making yourself into a better man.

All of that is important. It will take some time to really make changes that will stick. This leads me to my last point.

Set a deadline. Make it six months or so. During that time, do all of the aforementioned. At the end of that six months, if she is still sitting on the fence, do both of you a favor and set her free. "Wife, we both deserve to be with partners that are all in. For that reason, I am setting you free to find that person".

This is the last thing. There is zero excuse for your neglect, nor her budding emotional affair. Whenever she tries to blame your neglect for her seeking consoling outside of the marriage, you should have a simple response: "You blaming me for your choices leads me to lose trust in you, and causes me to doubt whether our marriage is worth trying to save."

Do not allow guilt over your past decisions to allow her to do things that are not healthy for the marriage...Period.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Broken1011 said:


> I think you're right in saying that quite some time will probably be necessary - I'm just finding it incredibly hard to be the one in the lonely position and let time pass without begging for answers.
> 
> I changed myself completely once all this started - but I changed because -I- wanted to change, not for my wife, or my kids. I have stopped gaming altogether, unless my wife is at work and my children are in bed. I listen to my wife at every given chance and I am genuinely interested, I compliment her regularly - but not over-the-top in a manner that would seem forced, very subtle. I have started doing more around the house, cleaning, fix-me-ups that need done. I changed myself entirely to revolve around what SHE wants in a husband - and I'm loving it, it almost feels like a new relationship to me, and I think that's why things are so hard for me mentally - she is on the opposite end of the spectrum, it feels like a failed relationship to her, with a horrible neglectful person who has suddenly shown real change. I need to give her time, I'm mentally trying to get to the stage where I can give that to her, and continue to have positive vibes and do what I can - but it is SOOO hard knowing that, despite my efforts, this all could crumble at any time if she decides it isn't working.


Your last line is a defeatist attitude. Stop accepting failure. In this very post your showing the proper ACTIONS that your W is wanting. You said your are loving it. So then love it! Keep at it. When your W sees the actions are here to stay things will change.


----------



## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

on one hand, you were neglectful and need to convince her that you're a changed man... you'll do this best by 1) being responsible and keeping your job 2) helping out around the house 3) putting your family's wants/needs ahead of your own 4) allowing her time to heal and the relationship to improve 5) minimizing the video games (show her it's no longer your priority)

on the other hand, she has agreed to give you a second chance... if it were me, i would feel that some forgiveness was attached to a second chance; yet, it appears she has not forgiven you, and justifies the perpetuation of present problems in the relationship on account of the past. this is somewhat unfair, after you've allowed her enough time to heal and assuming you have continued good behavior.

perhaps address this very issue with her? as hard as you work here, you're not going to be able to change the past and what has happened years ago. bearing that in mind, all you can do now is be the best man possible, each and every day forward. she must understand this, and hold you accountable for what you actually have control over

if she continues to be stuck in the past despite your improved behaviors, it may be purposeful. if she doesn't want the relationship to work, despite all you do, she'll find a reason. hopefully this is not the case. good luck!


----------



## emmasmith (Aug 11, 2016)

Marriage and Family therapists who provide a unique counseling approach to resolve the conflicts.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh boy...babies having babies.

Neither one of you ever got to experience young adulthood the way you should have been doing at 18 or 20 or 23, etc. Instead, you were parents at 18 and then had _another_ kid. And while your wife was busy giving up her youth to work hard raising kids, doing all the housework AND working at night, here you were, sitting like an un-involved log for 6 years playing infantile video games and not contributing a damned thing to the work at home or investing in the marriage.

For mature adults, that's a tough path to navigate and come back from. For 18 year teenage kids, that's the kiss of death.

No wonder she fell out of love with you.

You get a wake-up call 6 whole *years* later when some other guy is sniffing around her and now you're this needy, whiny, panicky, stage IV clinger whose all about 'self improvement' and chomping at the bit to try to fix what you took *so long* to destroy.

Six years is a LONG time to consistently and systematically ruin a relationship. Especially one that wasn't mature enough to *begin* with. Not quite sure how another poster can describe her resentment as being 'stuck in the past' when this has been all she's KNOWN since day #1.

Your only hope at this point is some kind of marriage counseling. Personally, I think she's kind of done emotionally; when a woman says she no longer loves you, she's pretty much done at that point. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm being realistic. Too much, too little, too late as the song goes. I think she stays because she doesn't quite know what else to do and probably feels stuck to an extent. It's no fun being 23 or 24 and having to strike out on your own with two very small children. She's kind of made her bed and I think mentally, she's feeling she's now got to lie in it whether she wants to or not.

It sounds like you're at least trying to make up for 6 long years of neglect so good for you, but you're expecting miracles if you think she's just going to jump for joy now that you've finally gotten a clue. Personally, I think it's too late and emotionally, she's no longer invested. Add to that, your clinging, paranoia and neediness is *incredibly *unattractive to her and it's NOT endearing you to her - trust me on that one. So get some control over that for starters.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh boy...babies having babies.
> 
> Neither one of you ever got to experience young adulthood the way you should have been doing at 18 or 20 or 23, etc. Instead, you were parents at 18 and then had _another_ kid. And while your wife was busy giving up her youth to work hard raising kids, doing all the housework AND working at night, here you were, sitting like an un-involved log for 6 years playing infantile video games and not contributing a damned thing to the work at home or investing in the marriage.
> 
> ...


Babies having babies!

Thank you for your advice, I will look into discussing counseling with her. I have always had a huge hand in our housework and that has never been an issue, and I didn't just abandon my family the moment I got home from work with gaming, the problem lied once the day was done, after playing with the kids and they were asleep ( I atleast consider myself a decent father vs. a terrible husband), once my wife and I were alone - I preferred an escape into a false reality of video games vs. spending precious time with the woman who was head over heels for me, I would take every opportunity to stay home when they were going out if it was an option to game, I shut her out for a long time and did not offer support like a good husband should - if we went ANYWHERE, I would become hateful because it was pulling me away from escaping at home. I became a "needy, whiny, panicky, stage IV clinger" once she sat me down and officially told me she was done, and started discussing who gets what and custody of our kids. She gave and gave and gave and gave for so long, the signs were all there that I should stop being a child, and it took this to make it happen. Once I begged to see if this would work, and she said we would give it time and see (5 months ago). THIS is when I became overwhelmed and panicky with anxiety. We were very silent with each other 2 weeks after this discussion, and THAT is when I discovered that she had been talking to another guy for 2 weeks about our problems, seeking attention, compliments, and advice from him. She says she felt she couldn't talk to me because I've never seemed interested, why would I now? She was also struggling with the same anxiety I am - talking to this guy was her escape. All of that is over with now and she made it clear months ago that she will remain faithful while we figure this out, and he was a friend if anything.

Our problem now is what you said - me being a needy, whiny, panicky, stage IV clinger. I have backed off for a few days now, things seem okay when I back off - she will voluntarily cuddle with me occasionally while we watch TV in bed, or she'll ask me to cuddle with her before she goes to sleep. If we're in the car together, she will voluntarily try to hold my hand - and then occasionally she will seem distant, quiet, like something is on her mind, play on her phone or prefer her space. When she is doing this - is when I don't know what to do with myself - it is so clear sitting at work typing this out that I just need to back off during those times, but being present for them? I can't help but ask what she's doing on her phone, if something is the matter, and it aggravates her to no end.

I have stopped doing this for a few days now and let her be when she seems like she needs it... Do you think I should continue this process? Let space be there when it seems like she's after it, and also be loving when she seems like she wants it? I'm curious if I should give this time by backing off some - or if I should sit down with her and mention counseling, and tell her I feel she isn't emotionally invested anymore like you said, and maybe we should talk to someone about our problems. She has said numerous times during my anxiety meltdowns that if she wanted to leave - she would leave, or she would make me leave - how much truth there is to this, I don't know - there is nowhere really for either of us to go in our present situation.

Thanks again for your advice and words - while some of them hurt, they're absolutely honest and true and I have to accept that. Any more advice you may have is appreciated.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, give her space. Also offer her support.

If you can give her support, it may reduce or eliminate her seeking it elsewhere.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't know if I would monitor her phone or not at this point, OP.
> 
> Here is what I would do.
> 
> ...


Instead of the bolded, how about saying, "You're right. Maybe if I would have met your needs, you would not have sought, or at least accepted, that support from someone else. How can I better meet that need in you?"


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

jld said:


> Yes, give her space. Also offer her support.
> 
> If you can give her support, it may reduce or eliminate her seeking it elsewhere.


I will probably try to continue to give her space and try to control my anxiety during those times and be as supportive as possible, if nothing improves I'll bring up counseling. I believe she is done seeking support elsewhere based on her response to how bad I was hurt discovering that she was talking to someone else. The only problem now is getting her to rely on me for support, and to see the ME she saw when we were dating. This is new to her, and things could be too far gone for it to work.

I guess we'll see! Thanks for your response


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Broken1011 said:


> I will probably try to continue to give her space and try to control my anxiety during those times and be as supportive as possible, if nothing improves I'll bring up counseling. I believe she is done seeking support elsewhere based on her response to how bad I was hurt discovering that she was talking to someone else. The only problem now is getting her to rely on me for support, and to see the ME she saw when we were dating. This is new to her, and things could be too far gone for it to work.
> 
> I guess we'll see! Thanks for your response


Sure. I do think the only way for her to really trust you, though, and be able to rely on you, is if you can get stronger in yourself and actually be trustworthy and reliable. Not that you are not somewhat that way already, but it sounds like it could use some improvement, you know?

Anxiety is just fear. Counseling could be a way for you to explore your fears. Some may have some basis, and some may not. Examining all that with a wise person (the counselor) could be a way for you to put some of them to rest, and learn to soothe yourself with the others. That would take some of the burden off of your wife to soothe you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Give her space, but also let her hear your thought processes. Let her see your growing awareness of all that has gone wrong. Let her hear you kicking yourself, just like you wrote above. But only in snippets. Let her see you growing as a person while not begging for anything. Let her see you willing to let her go if that's what she needs because you love her. (but also verify she's not still talking to that guy)


----------



## totallyefd (Jan 19, 2017)

Here's the impression I am getting from what you wrote. Keep in mind I have been married for 25 years and have seen a lot of things come and go. With that said, I only know what you are telling me but here's my take on the matter.

You were pushed into marriage because of a pregnancy, never a good start to a relationship. Now this child is the binding fact in your marriage. The basic desire to get married was not the deciding factor in why you actually got married. Problem#1

I a man and we can be dense. Women expect us to understand nuances of their emotions without them actually saying things straight out. If they have to express it in black and white it too late. So I think she has been upset by your non-participation in family life for a lot longer than you realize. I mean honestly, if you are playing video games while you should be taking your part in raising your child and keep the house in one piece then you need smacked in the head. Who did you think was going to do everything. Problem#2

You got your head on straight only after you were looking over the cliff of divorce. Your wife now resents you for not understanding this problem in the past. In all honesty its worse now that you understand your faults because there was that ability to change and it took an event like this to initiate it. If she felt that this gaming person is who you are then she would have at least respected you. She probably now feels anger because if you had changed long ago then this wouldn't be a problem now. This a catch 22 situation, damned if you do and damned if you don't. This counts for Problem#3and4

Enter the helpful, listening, sweet, hardworking other man. This man I am sure knows everything that pisses her off about you. Guess what he will exhibit none of those traits. Why, because he wants a sweet young mistress with all the benefits and none of the responsibilities. He will say and do what ever he can to get your wife in bed. He won't push it far enough for her to leave you because he is probably already married or he is just in it for the sex. Yes, sex. You say you are 99.99 sure she isnt cheating. She is already dependent on this man for emotional support. Sexual support is the next step. There is a very good chance this has happened. You met in highschool so good chance your wife has been with a very limited number of men. This is also one reason cheating is more probable. Problem#5,6,and 7

Her emotions are on a roller coaster. She is angry with you for trying now that she found someone else to depend on emotionally. She is angry that you pushed her to find another man. She is angry with herself for cheating (on any level). And at you for causing her to feel she needed to. Problem 8-10

Advice. She has lost respect for herself and you. If I were in your situation, I would be the best husband I could be for as long as I could be. At some point she will either blow up at you and want things to be over. Or, she may realize this other man's intentions are wrong and find herself needing her family again. 
Either way without professional counseling, you will go down one of these roads. If she wants a separation it is best to agree to it and allow the time away from you make her realize that either she still wants you or she wants to move on. At least she will respect you again. If she has cheated which I suspect she has, and you start to get upset thinking about it. Consider what pushed her to that place in the first place and that anger will be pushed out by humility. 

This is just my thoughts on the situation, don't be upset, just read it and take from it what you will.


----------



## Broken1011 (Jan 24, 2017)

Just an update, and a request for more advice:

I know with 100% certainty that my wife has not physically cheated on me - was her texting a coworker a budding emotional affair? Yes, I believe so. She has said numerous times that she understands it was wrong, call/text logs show 0 activity with this person in the last few months, she has said on numerous occasion that she will be faithful while we figure this out.

SO - since I've posted this thread, not much has changed. I have still been struggling with anxiety and constantly wanting to ask what I need to do... why she isn't affectionate... regardless of what I do. Finally, about 3 days ago, I broke down and lost it while we were sitting together in the same room feeling miles apart. We went into a large discussion about our feelings, I told her that I felt like she wasn't trying like I am to make this relationship work - she told me that she has been at the point where she'd rather leave for months now, and her presence in our house is trying and is currently all the trying she has - being present. I told her I hated the idea of being miles apart while still being in the same room... She told me that if I can't be patient and try to continue to show her who I really am, and give her space, then I just need to leave. She then went into details of what-if scenarios in the situation of our divorce, she says she worries about this frequently and it will make her feel better. She talked about a custody situation of the kids, who would have them when and how it would be handled, and wanted to make sure I would not resent her and make things harder for her if we were to seperate... I told her that I have to AND am going to happily cooperate with her if we seperate because our children come first. She said this lifted a huge weight off her shoulders knowing this while weighing her options - but she said it does not mean that she wants or prefers a divorce right now, she is still unsure. She told me that I need to stop being so anxious and worrysome about the current state of our relationship, and be the person I think I should be around her at all times.... I told her doing this is so hard when I'm not receiving any kind of physical or emotional response back from her. She said she was sorry and doesn't want to pretend everything is fine like she has in the past when -I- was the one neglecting her.. she said to imagine 6 years of this and see how I would handle it. I told her I understand and would continue to do my best to make the relationship work, that I am very in love with her and I cannot contain myself from trying to receive some affection back from her - but I will do my best.

A few days have passed since the conversation, I have not brought anything up pertaining to the marriage, etc., We have basically been tolerating eachother's presence in the house, watching shows together and occasionally playing card games, etc... Some nights she will attempt to cuddle with me, and others there is no desire for that. Sex has basically ceased for the past month, even during the start of our problems, sex was frequent, I don't know why sex has ceased suddenly. About 2 months before all of our marital problems started, my wife started taking a bipolar medicine called Lamotrigine - She used to complain all the time of her mind racing, she could not sit still, she would have manic sessions where she was really excited, and then depressing sessions where she just wants to lay down for hours until it passes - this is how she was back when I was neglecting her, but she still always found ways to show me affection, etc. even when I wasn't giving it to her. Since starting this medicine (2 months before our problems started) it leveled her out, she went very "blah" and still is. There are no manic episodes, depressive episodes, she sleeps much better, and overall it seems like a mental approvement for her - but even before our marriage started to collapse - I feel like this medicine changed her and made her emotionally "dead" I guess you could say.. I mentioned this once before and it aggravated her - mentioning that the medicine helped her tenfold and -I- am the one who has made her emotionally dead after so much time of neglect, which is probably true, but does anyone know if Lamotrigine can cause an emotional disconnect that might be making this harder? I did not recommend she stop the medicine, but maybe try another one and talk to her doctor about what it could be doing - she refused and said it isn't doing anything negative - maybe i'm just grasping here.. or maybe someone has more information on this?

Anyways.. I am at a crossroads of what to do.. I'm struggling with the anxiety of where our situation is, and if she'll ever come back to wanting to be with me. She has completely stopped wearing her wedding rings as of a month ago, I asked her why and she says they make her mad. I was an ******* about a new wedding band she wanted that was a bit pricy last year, I asked her to wait to get it (I don't know why, I bought myself tons of gaming things with no worries.) and she wanted to go ahead and order it because she never got anything... I told her during an argument to go ahead, but it would mean nothing and there'd be no love behind it... I regretted this immediately after saying it, but she says it stuck with that ring, and she wants no part of it. She said last month if I'd like her to wear rings, then get her a new set with true meaning behind them..... so with valentines day coming up, I took a leap and ordered a $3,000 bridal set yesterday that I know she'll love, and I plan to give it to her on valentines day... Is this new ring set a mistake? Will it possibly show her that I am willing to go through every leap and bound to make her happy? Material things cannot fix this marriage I know that.. but could me being as supportive as I can, getting her a new ring set like I know she wants, and being patient save our marriage? Is this too far gone based on all of our talks?


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

1) stop talking about your relationship. It makes you look like a p*ssy. Women don't respect p*ssies.
2) Read Men are from Mars, HNHN (his needs, her needs) NMMNG (no more Mr Nice guy), MMSL, etc to learn more about relationships.
3) stop being a wimp.
4) just saw that your W is bi-polar. You need to read up on that, others with experience will chime in, but that in and of itself is BADDDD.


----------



## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

do this immediately...

Hi,

Both of you do this to renew, commit to working on the relationship, sex, romance, communication, therapy by a trained therapist by John Gottman, Ph.D. If you both decide to give it a go do this too. Go to a Dr. John Gottman Ph.D's marriage seminars, listed to Dr. Gottmans Audio CD book called. "what makes love last." Six Audio CD's and appendixes that you both complete to understand your relationship, communication style, trust and betrayal levels that if you do not attune to will ultimately lead to divorce. He can tell up to 75% accuracy who will divorce. This relationship scientist knows beyond scientific fact how to fix marriages to the pre-marital bliss state for the most part for most couples. Read and do all the book work and self and together practice to bet back that spark, or feeling to begin a new in a trust and safe place together.

In Recap
Give a deadline for her to choose to comeback and start loving.
Listen and be supportive, No you did statements to her, If she does them to you stay neutral, say I hear you, then say is there anything else that I need to hear that I had not asked or in-tune to understand. You just opened a door for a pleasing discussion or peace that she feels heard.
See a therapist
Do read, listen, and practice the stuff from the book I mentioned above. It will list everything you both to learn that you had no clue what both of you were doing wrong. Once you start this book you are not going to believe how you both have been sabotaging real intimacy to love where you leave, separate or divorce from the relationship. I am not talking sex her. That is later in the book.

Work on the tips and master them. Your marriage should become what hoped for and dreamed of.
If you are at a point that you feel that there is no chance. It's o.k. Read, listen, and do the exercises because it will only make you wise, relate better, and understand why we treat a stranger better than our spouses.

Good Luck.

David


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Broken1011 said:


> Just an update, and a request for more advice:
> 
> I know with 100% certainty that my wife has not physically cheated on me - was her texting a coworker a budding emotional affair? Yes, I believe so. She has said numerous times that she understands it was wrong, call/text logs show 0 activity with this person in the last few months, she has said on numerous occasion that she will be faithful while we figure this out.
> 
> ...


You busted her in an EA and you now have more than enough red flags for infidelity to investigate. Click the link in my sig and get busy. Don't bury your head in the sand, the steps you need to take to save your marriage if she's cheating are the opposite of the steps you need to take if she's not.


----------



## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

To me it sounds like she is playing you. If she really didn't love you at all, then she would leave. I think she is punishing you for all the years of neglect you gave her. Either that or she is comparing you to someone else. Either way, it's been 5 months so she's had plenty of time to decide if she wants to try and make this work or not. Stop being a doormat, yes you have done wrong but you are trying to make up for it, you don't deserve to be strung along until she finds someone better, cause she very well may be holding onto this relationship because she just doesn't want to be alone. You don't deserve to be tortured like this, I couldn't do this to my husband that's for damn sure.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Davidmidwest said:


> do this immediately...
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...



I did try this John Gottman thing and was severely disappointed. I found out that he preyed upon troubled married people by promoting this bullish!t scheme to make money through his [email protected] book. Here is another bad thing that I found out about him (not saying that this is the case here): he even went as far as writing under a different name on some forums (where the moderators are now on to him) to promote his book etc !!! So be careful of him David!


----------

