# Broken



## bluedolphin

I am a bit scared of the feedback I will receive from you guys but I decided to write this post anyway. I need help; I feel like I’m losing my mind. 
I don’t know how to put it into words, but I feel I fell out of love with my husband. I care about him, he is a good father, but I just can’t seem to imagine us growing old together.
I am married for almost 20 years (together 25) with two teenage kids. Both of us with stressful jobs, both kids in high performance sports with a lot of practices and competitions on the schedule. 
Problems on my side started in 2013, it was the first time I thought about a split. I am saying on my side because as per my husband, everything is all right. Every time I am trying to bring up something, he is very closed off and dismissive. 
A bit of a background: most of our fights in the past were related to my weight and the different parenting styles.
Parenting wise, he is a very strict dad, I am more loving and laid back. He is very traditional, sometimes to the extreme, whereas I am more open minded.
I was overweight most of my married life and the last years were absolutely horrible. The words I heard from him along the years still hurt now and I can’t seem to forget. It wasn’t an everyday thing, but every couple of weeks we had a blow up regarding my weight. Most of the fights in front of the kids, he can’t help himself. And every time we had a fight, I said to myself this is the last time I let him emotionally and verbally abuse me. But we continued this cycle for years. I think there is a lot of resentment on my part for how he treated me and a lot on his side for me not doing something to lose the weight. It felt like he made me a favor for staying with me.
Last year I decided to have weight loss surgery, as I was battling this weight problem for 20 years. He was not supportive of my decision so I went through the whole process alone. I really thought that if I will be at a normal weight, our relationship will get better. I am now close to my goal weight and our relationship is worse than ever. I did this for me, but deep down I did it to save our marriage. 
After surgery, my tolerance level for any BS is zero. I get irritated very quickly, I am sensitive and his attitude is not helping. “What the heck is wrong with you?” This is what I hear every day. I am probably not the best communicator, but it’s hard to talk to someone who thinks he’s perfect. 
I find it hard to let him get close to me, I find every excuse in the books to stay away from him (I exercise up to 90 minutes a day, so I am trying to do that when we are supposed to be together).
I am trying to figure out my feelings but I just can’t. I really thought I was over all the things that he said in the past and we made some progress on coming together on the parenting style, but I still feel I want to get away. 
He once told me that I am crazy for thinking of breaking up. He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?
We met when I was 14 years old. We were so different, I`ve changed so much and he changed too. 
If anyone can offer any feedback, I would appreciate it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bluedolphin said:


> I am a bit scared of the feedback I will receive from you guys but I decided to write this post anyway. I need help; I feel like I’m losing my mind.
> I don’t know how to put it into words, but I feel I fell out of love with my husband. I care about him, he is a good father, but I just can’t seem to imagine us growing old together.
> I am married for almost 20 years (together 25) with two teenage kids. Both of us with stressful jobs, both kids in high performance sports with a lot of practices and competitions on the schedule.
> Problems on my side started in 2013, it was the first time I thought about a split. I am saying on my side because as per my husband, everything is all right. Every time I am trying to bring up something, he is very closed off and dismissive.
> A bit of a background: most of our fights in the past were related to my weight and the different parenting styles.
> Parenting wise, he is a very strict dad, I am more loving and laid back. He is very traditional, sometimes to the extreme, whereas I am more open minded.
> I was overweight most of my married life and the last years were absolutely horrible. The words I heard from him along the years still hurt now and I can’t seem to forget. It wasn’t an everyday thing, but every couple of weeks we had a blow up regarding my weight. Most of the fights in front of the kids, he can’t help himself. And every time we had a fight, I said to myself this is the last time I let him emotionally and verbally abuse me. But we continued this cycle for years. I think there is a lot of resentment on my part for how he treated me and a lot on his side for me not doing something to lose the weight. It felt like he made me a favor for staying with me.
> Last year I decided to have weight loss surgery, as I was battling this weight problem for 20 years. He was not supportive of my decision so I went through the whole process alone. I really thought that if I will be at a normal weight, our relationship will get better. I am now close to my goal weight and our relationship is worse than ever. I did this for me, but deep down I did it to save our marriage.
> After surgery, my tolerance level for any BS is zero. I get irritated very quickly, I am sensitive and his attitude is not helping. “What the heck is wrong with you?” This is what I hear every day. I am probably not the best communicator, but it’s hard to talk to someone who thinks he’s perfect.
> I find it hard to let him get close to me, I find every excuse in the books to stay away from him (I exercise up to 90 minutes a day, so I am trying to do that when we are supposed to be together).
> I am trying to figure out my feelings but I just can’t. I really thought I was over all the things that he said in the past and we made some progress on coming together on the parenting style, but I still feel I want to get away.
> He once told me that I am crazy for thinking of breaking up. He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?
> We met when I was 14 years old. We were so different, I`ve changed so much and he changed too.
> If anyone can offer any feedback, I would appreciate it.


What feedback are you afraid of receiving?
Are you afraid people will judge you harshly for falling out of love with your husband?
or
Are you afraid people will tell you you need to leave this man?
or
is there some other advice you're afraid of receiving?

If your account of the dynamic is accurate, not many would judge you for loosing feeling for a man who belittles you. Nothing destroys love and intimacy faster than verbal and/or emotional abuse, even among the most devoted of spouses.


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## TeddieG

First of all, welcome. Second, sorry about your struggles and pain. My ex-h blindsided me out nowhere and wanted a separation and then divorced me, but we didn't fight. I always thought we agreed and compromised and worked things out calmly, in part because i have seen so often in various relationships how fights turn into abuse and nastiness. And I also read somewhere that there are always two or three things that couples can't resolve and work out so they agree to just be aware of it and keep talking about it each time it rears its head. After my h left me for another woman, he asked me once if we would have lasted, been better off, if we fought. I said, nope. We worked out our differences. Much later he was upset with how much he and the OW fought . . . like cats and dogs, all the time, and she was abusive, emotionally and in many other ways. 

So here's my thought: why can't you tell him what you told us in this post? Why can't you tell him that "what's wrong with you is" you are sick of what appears to fighting really just being him being abusive. And tell him the other thing that's "wrong with you" are the lengths you went to, alone, to try to save the marriage and you get no more respect from him now than you did before. 

Also, maybe a good counselor or therapist could help you, maybe get you to accept how much you resent him for not respecting you either way? Your h is dismissive because he thinks he has the upper hand, and he can't keep saying "no" whenever you want to raise an issue. 

Now, on that note, I would not at all be surprised if he was scared to death of you getting weight-loss surgery because that could change the dynamic; what reason would you have to be under his thumb if you thought you had options (you always did, but you wanted to save your marriage). 

Why does he get to say whatever he thinks or feels, and you are bottle up resentment? He's not perfect. And you say he's changed. He's not likely to go back to being the guy you knew. Who do you want to be?


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## nice777guy

"I get irritated very quickly"?

Why? How long ago was the surgery? Are you fully recovered physically?


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## Magnesium

He may be angry that you took away his easy, go-to, hot button put down by losing the weight. It was something he could use to emotionally abuse you and now you've taken control of it. It was a red herring he could throw down whenever he needed to distract everyone (including himself) from either his own shortcomings, or the real issues of the marriage. And you've taken that away from him. Good for you. 

He may be all those good things you (and he) say he is, but if he is emotionally abusive (and it sounds like he is), the abusive part outweighs the other good stuff.


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## wilson

bluedolphin said:


> I find it hard to let him get close to me, I find every excuse in the books to stay away from him (I exercise up to 90 minutes a day, so I am trying to do that when we are supposed to be together).
> ...
> He once told me that I am crazy for thinking of breaking up. He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?


How old are your kids? What level of regular intimacy do you have with your husband? What's the age difference between you and your husband?

Like you said, it sounds like you fell out of love with your husband. There doesn't have to be a specific reason. Sometimes it just happens. Certainly it's not too shocking that you now have different wants and needs in a partner than when you were 14.

It sounds like you have basically a good relationship even if it doesn't fill your heart with joy. For some people, that's all they want out of marriage. They are fine with just having a companion around to do stuff with. But it sounds like you might want more. But be realistic about what's possible. Any relationship is going to have good and bad. 

One issue is that it sounds like your kids are keeping you both super busy. That can often cause parents to withdraw from each other as they seek out individual time to recharge. The stress from being parents can make it hard to be good spouses to each other.

How soon until the kids can get themselves to their activities so you don't have to be so involved? Once things calm down, you might find it easier to connect with your husband.


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## Young at Heart

Dear bluedolphin;

You need to figure some stuff out and that might take professional help.

You have fallen out of love with your husband, he is dismissive of you and you avoid him and intimacy from your post. You are both doing some very destructive things.

Clearly, there is a problem in the relationship between you and your husband of many years. From what I have learned it usually takes two to destroy a marriage. I would imagine that both you and your husband have contributed to the distance between the two of you. You do have a role in this. You can't change your husband, you can only change yourself and the way you allow yourself to be treated. Stop and think about that.

If you want the marriage to continue, you will need to change, and your H will also need to change.

If you want your marriage to end, you don't need to change anything, except you will need to change everything, where you live, who you count on for various things, etc. So change is in you future one way or another.

May I suggest some marriage counseling to try to save your marriage before you go any further.


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## bluedolphin

Thank you all for your replies. 
My computer froze while trying to post, so here I go again.
Trying to answer some of your questions:
-my older one is almost 16, he will be driving soon, so we will have more free time. He is travelling all around the world competing, so it’s been stressful. My younger one still has a few years until he will be more independent.
-my husband is 7 years older than me; I am making an effort lately and we are intimate once or twice a week
- I am 7 months post op: physically I fell ok, I am in the best shape of my life, exercising daily and eating extremely healthy. Mentally, I am struggling.
- Someone asked why I am getting irritated easily. It’s all the little things that set me off. For example when he is offering me foods and drinks that I cannot have and will never be able to have. This shows me he knows nothing about my new way of eating and this gets me mad. He never attended any of my support meetings at the hospital, never came to any of my appointments in the last 18 months (since I started this process). I left books and info all around the house and he never read them. I had to explain what the surgery is about a few days before the surgery. He is proud of me now and always compliments me, but I just don’t care. I am a very independent person and I’ve reached a point where even if he offers to attend a meeting with me, I don’t want him there. Another thing that set me off was when he bought me underwear a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to do a nice gesture, but bought nine pairs in my former size. I just lost it. I am down 110lbs and probably 4 sizes and he still buys me the old size from which I already have probably 50 pairs. He apologized the next day and said it was a mistake.
He is making an effort lately to improve our relationship. I told him I need more from him, that I am in a fragile state right now. The verbal abuse is gone ( it was always related to my weight), he buys me flowers every week, he is trying to be more understanding with the kids, not so strict, so I don’t know why I can’t move on, why I feel so unhappy and on the edge.
I will follow your advice and book an appointment with a therapist. For me first and then I will suggest marriage counselling.
Thank you all!


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## Yeswecan

bluedolphin said:


> I am a bit scared of the feedback I will receive from you guys but I decided to write this post anyway. I need help; I feel like I’m losing my mind.
> I don’t know how to put it into words, but I feel I fell out of love with my husband. I care about him, he is a good father, but I just can’t seem to imagine us growing old together.
> I am married for almost 20 years (together 25) with two teenage kids. Both of us with stressful jobs, both kids in high performance sports with a lot of practices and competitions on the schedule.
> Problems on my side started in 2013, it was the first time I thought about a split. I am saying on my side because as per my husband, everything is all right. Every time I am trying to bring up something, he is very closed off and dismissive.
> A bit of a background: most of our fights in the past were related to my weight and the different parenting styles.
> Parenting wise, he is a very strict dad, I am more loving and laid back. He is very traditional, sometimes to the extreme, whereas I am more open minded.
> I was overweight most of my married life and the last years were absolutely horrible. The words I heard from him along the years still hurt now and I can’t seem to forget. It wasn’t an everyday thing, but every couple of weeks we had a blow up regarding my weight. Most of the fights in front of the kids, he can’t help himself. And every time we had a fight, I said to myself this is the last time I let him emotionally and verbally abuse me. But we continued this cycle for years. I think there is a lot of resentment on my part for how he treated me and a lot on his side for me not doing something to lose the weight. It felt like he made me a favor for staying with me.
> Last year I decided to have weight loss surgery, as I was battling this weight problem for 20 years. He was not supportive of my decision so I went through the whole process alone. I really thought that if I will be at a normal weight, our relationship will get better. I am now close to my goal weight and our relationship is worse than ever. I did this for me, but deep down I did it to save our marriage.
> After surgery, my tolerance level for any BS is zero. I get irritated very quickly, I am sensitive and his attitude is not helping. “What the heck is wrong with you?” This is what I hear every day. I am probably not the best communicator, but it’s hard to talk to someone who thinks he’s perfect.
> I find it hard to let him get close to me, I find every excuse in the books to stay away from him (I exercise up to 90 minutes a day, so I am trying to do that when we are supposed to be together).
> I am trying to figure out my feelings but I just can’t. I really thought I was over all the things that he said in the past and we made some progress on coming together on the parenting style, but I still feel I want to get away.
> He once told me that I am crazy for thinking of breaking up. He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?
> We met when I was 14 years old. We were so different, I`ve changed so much and he changed too.
> If anyone can offer any feedback, I would appreciate it.


You two have not lost love. You two have lost FOCUS. Your focus is on other aspects of your lives and it does not include the most important. That is your relationship with each other. Putting each other first above all things. Years ago when dating I'm certain both had focused on your relationship. Things were good. Yes? 

Now, your H has focused on all things but one. I have been there. I focused on kids, work and making the "good life" for the family. I missed one of the biggest. That was meeting my W needs. In short, I was a lousy H. My W, like you I'm sure, likes to hear, "I love you." But that becomes hollow over time. Many want to hear, "I love you and this is why_____." 

My W and I are 24 years married. Kids grown. Becoming empty nesters. We, however, have been able to spark the flame into a roaring fire because we returned our focus back to US. Look to have your H understand that his and your focus need to change.


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## aine

bluedolphin said:


> Thank you all for your replies.
> My computer froze while trying to post, so here I go again.
> Trying to answer some of your questions:
> -my older one is almost 16, he will be driving soon, so we will have more free time. He is travelling all around the world competing, so it’s been stressful. My younger one still has a few years until he will be more independent.
> -my husband is 7 years older than me; I am making an effort lately and we are intimate once or twice a week
> - I am 7 months post op: physically I fell ok, I am in the best shape of my life, exercising daily and eating extremely healthy. Mentally, I am struggling.
> - Someone asked why I am getting irritated easily. It’s all the little things that set me off. For example when he is offering me foods and drinks that I cannot have and will never be able to have. This shows me he knows nothing about my new way of eating and this gets me mad. He never attended any of my support meetings at the hospital, never came to any of my appointments in the last 18 months (since I started this process). I left books and info all around the house and he never read them. I had to explain what the surgery is about a few days before the surgery. He is proud of me now and always compliments me, but I just don’t care. I am a very independent person and I’ve reached a point where even if he offers to attend a meeting with me, I don’t want him there. Another thing that set me off was when he bought me underwear a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to do a nice gesture, but bought nine pairs in my former size. I just lost it. I am down 110lbs and probably 4 sizes and he still buys me the old size from which I already have probably 50 pairs. He apologized the next day and said it was a mistake.
> He is making an effort lately to improve our relationship. I told him I need more from him, that I am in a fragile state right now. The verbal abuse is gone ( it was always related to my weight), he buys me flowers every week, he is trying to be more understanding with the kids, not so strict, so I don’t know why I can’t move on, why I feel so unhappy and on the edge.
> I will follow your advice and book an appointment with a therapist. For me first and then I will suggest marriage counselling.
> Thank you all!


You need counselling for you both. You also have to be honest with him and tell him that you have years of resentment built up against him. He has hurt you by not being involved and supportive of your weight loss procedures when you needed him, although he nagged you all the time about it. Be open, he needs to know.
You may also need IC to help with your resentment.


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## Noble1

Sounds like you have tried and put in effort to work on the marriage and yourself. That is great.

It is possible that you are feeling the way you do is that it seems like you are doing most of the work.

Now, given your last post, it looks like your husband is trying harder; however, it may seem too little too late - but this is totally up to you.

Keep up the positive work and good luck.


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## hinterdir

Obviously you two need some counseling. There may be a come to Jesus moment to where you lay it all on the table and tell him you are unhappy and thinking of ending the marriage. DON'T accuse him or blame him just tell him how you feel about certain things, I feel this when you do that. I want this in my life and marriage and wish you would try to give it to me. Without these things I do not feel loved. 

You committed to marry him so in some regards "for better or worse" this is just your worse run. If you can't handle it then I can only assume you didn't really mean your vows. 

People think love is always a feeling......I feel in love, but it is usually a verb. You just CHOOSE to show love to someone whether you "feel" the love or not. Be a loving spouse. Learn his love languages and show him love in the way he optimally feels love. If you have the I'll show love when HE shows love and I "FEEL" it. That's not usually how love works. Ideally that's what you want but at times you've got to be selfless enough to give someone love even when they aren't making you feel it. 

Marriage works when both are serving each other and more concerned with caring for their mate and giving love rather than focusing on themselves. Withholding it and only giving it AFTER they meet your needs and demands may be "justice" but rarely works in relationships. 

Communication is the key, you have to communication with complete honestly and transparency what you want, what you feel, what hurts and lacking you have.......but you have to speak the truth in love, you can't accuse and become argumentative, you have to be respectful and word it more about how YOU feel rather than what he is doing wrong. 

You two need to see a good marriage counselor to help you both figure it out. 

In the meantime focus on courting each other again. Plan new things to do together and surprise him with dinner or something new out on the town plans. Marriages often stagnate when you both "WIN" each other's heart and no longer have to try anymore. Boring patterns and routines form. Shake that up. You have to "DATE" each other again and go do fun things, learn new things about each other, do new things neither of you have tried before. Fix yourself up like you did when you were dating with no expectation from him at first to make a big fuss over it. 

You can't change him but you can start by making an effort and trying to change you. If you can get back to both of you trying to court each other and "win" the others heart than maybe things can improve and new sparks can form. 

Complaining and telling him all he's done wrong to you and how he's ruined everything will immediately shut everything down and put up all the walls and "fight" mode. 

You've got to give love and do things that serve and make the other feel loved whether you feel it or not. Often when you are willing to change yourself it can help melt the heart of the other and they may eventually meet you half way. You can't change someone else, only yourself. Since you are the one at this crossroads and you are mindful of these things you making the first changes seems appropriate. You can't wait for him to change while you do nothing. 

Good luck. Get some counseling and focus on courting, dating each other again and start giving love (his love language) whether you feel like giving it or not and then be patient for a bit.


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## PigglyWiggly

I really think with the right help that you guys can turn this ship around. Once help gets you two some communication tools and a goal to work towards together I really do feel that you can get to a much better place. You asking for advice is a good thing I think. Good luck!


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## Rowan

OP, any 21 year old man who begins a relationship with a 14 year old likes the young, naive, unsure of herself, easily controlled, aspect that comes with dating someone who is essentially a child. So it's not surprising that he would be dismissive, and also probably a bit controlling as he feels the need - and the right - to scold and discipline someone he regards as younger and therefore less capable. It's likely that much of your relationship has been marked by varying degrees of a parent/child dynamic.

It's possible that you resent a lot of things that maybe didn't consciously bother you before. With greater maturity and more self-esteem, you may find that you are now bothered by things that just seemed normal to you when you were younger and less sure of yourself. In order for your relationship to continue in a healthy manner, the dynamic you have likely had throughout your marriage will need to change. You will both need to figure out how to grow together, rather than apart as you have been and are now. A good MC might be an excellent place to start.


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## bluedolphin

We started dating when I was 15. And to be honest, I chased him. It took almost a year to convince him to go on a date with me. He always said that I was too young for him. But I was so in love with him, I didn't care. He was always extremely considerate and we had a good relationship. We got married when I was 21.


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## Magnesium

I bet he knows quite well what you can and cannot eat and he knows all too well what size you wear now, too. He is being passive aggressive. And every time you show your annoyance or get upset, he wins. 

He sounds like a real jerk, to be honest. A selfish, self-involved, emotionally immature, weak jerk. And, I would be very wary about going to counseling with his type. Definitely individual counseling, though.


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## Magnesium

bluedolphin said:


> Thank you all for your replies.
> My computer froze while trying to post, so here I go again.
> Trying to answer some of your questions:
> -my older one is almost 16, he will be driving soon, so we will have more free time. He is travelling all around the world competing, so it’s been stressful. My younger one still has a few years until he will be more independent.
> -my husband is 7 years older than me; I am making an effort lately and we are intimate once or twice a week
> - I am 7 months post op: physically I fell ok, I am in the best shape of my life, exercising daily and eating extremely healthy. Mentally, I am struggling.
> - Someone asked why I am getting irritated easily. It’s all the little things that set me off. For example when he is offering me foods and drinks that I cannot have and will never be able to have. This shows me he knows nothing about my new way of eating and this gets me mad. He never attended any of my support meetings at the hospital, never came to any of my appointments in the last 18 months (since I started this process). I left books and info all around the house and he never read them. I had to explain what the surgery is about a few days before the surgery. He is proud of me now and always compliments me, but I just don’t care. I am a very independent person and I’ve reached a point where even if he offers to attend a meeting with me, I don’t want him there. Another thing that set me off was when he bought me underwear a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to do a nice gesture, but bought nine pairs in my former size. I just lost it. I am down 110lbs and probably 4 sizes and he still buys me the old size from which I already have probably 50 pairs. He apologized the next day and said it was a mistake.
> *He is making an effort lately to improve our relationship. I told him I need more from him, that I am in a fragile state right now. The verbal abuse is gone ( it was always related to my weight), he buys me flowers every week, he is trying to be more understanding with the kids, not so strict, so I don’t know why I can’t move on, why I feel so unhappy and on the edge.
> *I will follow your advice and book an appointment with a therapist. For me first and then I will suggest marriage counselling.
> Thank you all!


Because you know deep down in your gut that if he loved you, it wouldn't take losing 110 pounds for him to be nice to you.


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## bluedolphin

Magnesium said:


> Because you know deep down in your gut that if he loved you, it wouldn't take losing 110 pounds for him to be nice to you.


This breaks my heart right now...


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## Magnesium

bluedolphin said:


> This breaks my heart right now...


I'm so sorry.


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## Young at Heart

bluedolphin;

Again, you can't change your husband, only your husband can change himself. All your posts say you want this or that from your husband which he is not giving you. That means you want him to change. 

Indeed for the marriage to last he may need to change, but he needs to make the changes you want. You can't force him to change. That is why you need to focus on letting him know your needs (so he can decide if he wants to meet them or not), give him positive feedback when he does make baby-step changes that you like, and work on changing yourself in ways that change his feelings toward you.

Let's look at that last one for a moment. Change can be frightening. The fear of the unknown is a big deal. You would expect him to be reluctant to change. And yet you have lost over 100 pounds, you have changed your diet, you have changed your exercise routine. That is a lot of change for your husband to deal with, even if you won't acknowledge it. You should and do feel proud of what you have changed about yourself. 

But ask yourself what have you changed about yourself that has made your husband truly emotionally happy? Or was that even a consideration on your part? You are husband and wife, shouldn't their be some acknowledgement that what you change about yourself is going to impact him. 

Yes you have a responsibility to your own health, but wouldn't it be better if he was included in the change process. Giving him books, asking him if he wants to attend a lecture with you is a good start, but I sense that you really didn't follow-up, ask about what he really felt, what his fears were, what his desires were, how you could do thing with him rather than apart from him. But then again, he may have wanted no part in any of it.

When I was in a sex starved marriage and thinking of divorcing my wife of nearly 40 years, I finally after reading Chapman's 5 Languages of Love, figured out that I was not communicating my love for my wife in her love languages and she was not communicating her love for me in my love languages. We were effectively screaming "I love you" to each other every day in a way that the other could not hear. When I realized that, I changed myself and started to communicate my love to my wife in HER love languages. That made her feel loved and cherished once more. It took a long time and the help of a great marriage counselor/sex therapist before my wife was willing to change herself and commit to rebuilding our marriage.

There was a lot of change that needed to take place to rebuild our marriage and it was mostly negotiated.

So the question is .....you have gone through great change......he probably has not supported the change as you had hoped and that is disturbing to you....but what have you changed about the way you treat him so as to make him feel secure about the "new you" and about how much you love him and cherish him?

And if, as you say you don't care and have fallen out of love, why haven't you just gone to a divorce attorney?

You can decide to work on saving your marriage or ending it. It is your choice. Good luck.


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## MattMatt

hinterdir said:


> Obviously you two need some counseling. There may be a come to Jesus moment to where you lay it all on the table and tell him you are unhappy and thinking of ending the marriage. DON'T accuse him or blame him just tell him how you feel about certain things, I feel this when you do that. I want this in my life and marriage and wish you would try to give it to me. Without these things I do not feel loved.
> 
> You committed to marry him so in some regards "for better or worse" this is just your worse run. If you can't handle it then I can only assume you didn't really mean your vows.
> 
> People think love is always a feeling......I feel in love, but it is usually a verb. You just CHOOSE to show love to someone whether you "feel" the love or not. Be a loving spouse. Learn his love languages and show him love in the way he optimally feels love. If you have the I'll show love when HE shows love and I "FEEL" it. That's not usually how love works. Ideally that's what you want but at times you've got to be selfless enough to give someone love even when they aren't making you feel it.
> 
> Marriage works when both are serving each other and more concerned with caring for their mate and giving love rather than focusing on themselves. Withholding it and only giving it AFTER they meet your needs and demands may be "justice" but rarely works in relationships.
> 
> Communication is the key, you have to communication with complete honestly and transparency what you want, what you feel, what hurts and lacking you have.......but you have to speak the truth in love, you can't accuse and become argumentative, you have to be respectful and word it more about how YOU feel rather than what he is doing wrong.
> 
> You two need to see a good marriage counselor to help you both figure it out.
> 
> In the meantime focus on courting each other again. Plan new things to do together and surprise him with dinner or something new out on the town plans. Marriages often stagnate when you both "WIN" each other's heart and no longer have to try anymore. Boring patterns and routines form. Shake that up. You have to "DATE" each other again and go do fun things, learn new things about each other, do new things neither of you have tried before. Fix yourself up like you did when you were dating with no expectation from him at first to make a big fuss over it.
> 
> You can't change him but you can start by making an effort and trying to change you. If you can get back to both of you trying to court each other and "win" the others heart than maybe things can improve and new sparks can form.
> 
> Complaining and telling him all he's done wrong to you and how he's ruined everything will immediately shut everything down and put up all the walls and "fight" mode.
> 
> You've got to give love and do things that serve and make the other feel loved whether you feel it or not. Often when you are willing to change yourself it can help melt the heart of the other and they may eventually meet you half way. You can't change someone else, only yourself. Since you are the one at this crossroads and you are mindful of these things you making the first changes seems appropriate. You can't wait for him to change while you do nothing.
> 
> Good luck. Get some counseling and focus on courting, dating each other again and start giving love (his love language) whether you feel like giving it or not and then be patient for a bit.


:iagree:
Counselling individually, as a couple, as a family, is worth looking at.


----------



## wilson

How common are mood changes with the surgery? There is research that there is a strong link between brain and stomach. Could it be that your body is trying to adjust to new hormone levels and that is contributing to your irritability?


----------



## bluedolphin

wilson said:


> How common are mood changes with the surgery? There is research that there is a strong link between brain and stomach. Could it be that your body is trying to adjust to new hormone levels and that is contributing to your irritability?


It is common. Some days I feel like my brain cannot catch up with all the changes that are happening. It’s like looking from outside and asking myself who this person is. Not sure if this makes sense.

Overall , I am a mess :|.


----------



## bluedolphin

Young at Heart said:


> bluedolphin;
> 
> Again, you can't change your husband, only your husband can change himself. All your posts say you want this or that from your husband which he is not giving you. That means you want him to change.
> 
> Indeed for the marriage to last he may need to change, but he needs to make the changes you want. You can't force him to change. That is why you need to focus on letting him know your needs (so he can decide if he wants to meet them or not), give him positive feedback when he does make baby-step changes that you like, and work on changing yourself in ways that change his feelings toward you.
> 
> Let's look at that last one for a moment. Change can be frightening. The fear of the unknown is a big deal. You would expect him to be reluctant to change. And yet you have lost over 100 pounds, you have changed your diet, you have changed your exercise routine. That is a lot of change for your husband to deal with, even if you won't acknowledge it. You should and do feel proud of what you have changed about yourself.
> 
> *But ask yourself what have you changed about yourself that has made your husband truly emotionally happy? Or was that even a consideration on your part? You are husband and wife, shouldn't their be some acknowledgement that what you change about yourself is going to impact him. *
> 
> Yes you have a responsibility to your own health, but wouldn't it be better if he was included in the change process. Giving him books, asking him if he wants to attend a lecture with you is a good start, but I sense that you really didn't follow-up, ask about what he really felt, what his fears were, what his desires were, how you could do thing with him rather than apart from him. But then again, he may have wanted no part in any of it.
> 
> When I was in a sex starved marriage and thinking of divorcing my wife of nearly 40 years, I finally after reading Chapman's 5 Languages of Love, figured out that I was not communicating my love for my wife in her love languages and she was not communicating her love for me in my love languages. We were effectively screaming "I love you" to each other every day in a way that the other could not hear. When I realized that, I changed myself and started to communicate my love to my wife in HER love languages. That made her feel loved and cherished once more. It took a long time and the help of a great marriage counselor/sex therapist before my wife was willing to change herself and commit to rebuilding our marriage.
> 
> There was a lot of change that needed to take place to rebuild our marriage and it was mostly negotiated.
> 
> *So the question is .....you have gone through great change......he probably has not supported the change as you had hoped and that is disturbing to you....but what have you changed about the way you treat him so as to make him feel secure about the "new you" and about how much you love him and cherish him?
> 
> *And if, as you say you don't care and have fallen out of love, why haven't you just gone to a divorce attorney?
> 
> You can decide to work on saving your marriage or ending it. It is your choice. Good luck.



Make him feel secure? As I said, there is a lot of resentment towards him for the way he spoke to me in the last few years. He didn’t make me feel secure in a long time. Even if it was not a daily or weekly occurrence, it kind of make me doubt that he was sincere when he was being nice to me. He is a good man and generally very respectful, but when we were fighting, he was losing his temper and saying things that he would regret.
I thought that losing weight will resolve all my problems and it didn’t. Some days I am mad, hurt , some days I just can’t stand him. Everything he says makes me irritable. Other days, I am just indifferent.

I want to change and make this work, but right now everything seems forced and fake. I was looking at him this morning, complementing him that he looks good. He is an extremely attractive man, fit and handsome. We were always seen as the perfect couple, perfect family. My parents love him, he is the son they never had. It is a lot of pressure on me to make this work. I can’t step back and make a clear decision. 

I do agree that we need to communicate more. That’s not my forte. I don’t like how he reacts when I start a serious conversation, so I back off quickly.


----------



## Magnesium

bluedolphin said:


> Make him feel secure? As I said, there is a lot of resentment towards him for the way he spoke to me in the last few years. He didn’t make me feel secure in a long time. Even if it was not a daily or weekly occurrence, it kind of make me doubt that he was sincere when he was being nice to me. He is a good man and generally very respectful, but when we were fighting, he was losing his temper and saying things that he would regret.
> I thought that losing weight will resolve all my problems and it didn’t. Some days I am mad, hurt , some days I just can’t stand him. Everything he says makes me irritable. Other days, I am just indifferent.
> 
> I want to change and make this work, but right now everything seems forced and fake. I was looking at him this morning, complementing him that he looks good. He is an extremely attractive man, fit and handsome. We were always seen as the perfect couple, perfect family. My parents love him, he is the son they never had. It is a lot of pressure on me to make this work. I can’t step back and make a clear decision.
> 
> I do agree that we need to communicate more. That’s not my forte. I don’t like how he reacts when I start a serious conversation, so I back off quickly.



When he is harsh with the kids, is it because they've done something very wrong or because they are not living up to his image standard?

Is he usually controlling and image-conscious?


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

bluedolphin said:


> Make him feel secure? As I said, there is a lot of resentment towards him for the way he spoke to me in the last few years. He didn’t make me feel secure in a long time. Even if it was not a daily or weekly occurrence, it kind of make me doubt that he was sincere when he was being nice to me. He is a good man and generally very respectful, but when we were fighting, he was losing his temper and saying things that he would regret.
> I thought that losing weight will resolve all my problems and it didn’t. Some days I am mad, hurt , some days I just can’t stand him. Everything he says makes me irritable. Other days, I am just indifferent.
> 
> I want to change and make this work, but right now everything seems forced and fake. I was looking at him this morning, complementing him that he looks good. He is an extremely attractive man, fit and handsome. We were always seen as the perfect couple, perfect family. My parents love him, he is the son they never had. It is a lot of pressure on me to make this work. I can’t step back and make a clear decision.
> 
> I do agree that we need to communicate more. That’s not my forte. I don’t like how he reacts when I start a serious conversation, so I back off quickly.


Reacting to reactions?

That sounds self-defeating to me...

It may not seem like it as it happens but we actually choose to do this when we knee-jerk our emotions.

Kindness comes from within and as easily as we can train resentment we can train the other side of it... we don't want to be kind, we are kind, but it can simply be easier to to feel hurt in unpleasant conditions so sadly kindness takes a back seat.

When he is unhappy or unpleasant with you let him know you are sorry he feels that way and leave it there... the truth is you are sorry he feels that way, it makes you sad and you react to that sadness in a defensive way so learn to let it go with the kindness I speak of... it turns indifference into satisfaction because you are also being kind to yourself and suddenly you may find those seeds you are planting take root everywhere else.

This brings compassion because it is also sad that his suffering is so great that it overflows everywhere else between you.

I have more thoughts but let me know what you think of these...


----------



## bluedolphin

Magnesium said:


> When he is harsh with the kids, is it because they've done something very wrong or because they are not living up to his image standard?
> 
> Is he usually controlling and image-conscious?


He is a very strict dad, but nothing to do with image standard. More like school and behaviour. He is right most of the times, but the way he delivers the message is not something I approve of. Our kids are well behaved, great grades in school, especially the older one and both excel in sports. He is controlling and when I point that out, he tries to listen to me, then the next day we start over. But both kids love him, he is very involved with all their activities, a very hands on dad. I always make an effort not to discuss these problems in front of the kids. I let him do whatever he wants and then I approach him in the evening, before going to bed. We had countless discussions on this subject and we are at a point now where we are both compromising.


----------



## BluesPower

You know, honestly, I just don't see this really working out much longer. 

Sorry, but I just really don't. And as a guy, and with only one point of view being presented, but I just have to say that... I really just think that he is a hard A$$ jerk. 

And I say this while being a hard a$$ myself. A lot of men, are just hard on people, hard with the kids, hard with the wife, just hard. 

For them, it makes them feel in control of their life, even though they really are not. 

But him being hard on you about your weight, and not being there for you... There is just no justification for that, there just is not. 

I really think if you are to be happy, you need to think about ending this marriage. Are you perfect, no, I am sure you are not. 

But you know what, you took responsibility to lose the weight, and you have done other things, what has he done?


----------



## dadstartingover

Did the docs that did the surgery inform you of the effect bariatric surgery has on marriages?

85% end in divorce within two years of the surgery.

Just an interesting factoid. FOOD for thought (pun intended).


----------



## bluedolphin

BluesPower said:


> You know, honestly, I just don't see this really working out much longer.
> 
> Sorry, but I just really don't. And as a guy, and with only one point of view being presented, but I just have to say that... I really just think that he is a hard A$$ jerk.
> 
> And I say this while being a hard a$$ myself. A lot of men, are just hard on people, hard with the kids, hard with the wife, just hard.
> 
> For them, it makes them feel in control of their life, even though they really are not.
> 
> But him being hard on you about your weight, and not being there for you... There is just no justification for that, there just is not.
> 
> I really think if you are to be happy, you need to think about ending this marriage. Are you perfect, no, I am sure you are not.
> 
> But you know what, you took responsibility to lose the weight, and you have done other things, what has he done?



I had to read the thread again today. Just to see where I am after 3 months. And your words, BluePower, are just so hard to read without tearing up.
We started MC last week . And I also started individual counselling. We found a really good counsellor, I trust him. The things got worse over the summer and his control issues came up to the surface more than ever.
I feel like I'm suffocating. I got to a point where I would prefer to stay in this marriage just for the kids and for financial reasons. I am that desperate. But he would never accept a relationship without the physical part.
I really think he is feeling threated by my new lifestyle. He is even trying to control the amount of exercise I do and the gym membership ( according to him, the gym membership and hiring a trainer for a few sessions is useless). 
The MC told him to back off for a while, give me some space. It was hell on earth since that session . He is like a lion in a cage, cornering me on every issue. 
My older son is starting yo ask questions, so I need to talk to him this weekend.
Yeah, so overall... not good.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I'm sorry to read such a sad update, I was hoping there had been some improvement. He sounds like a complete control freak. If I were you, I would set a time limit for myself, to see any changes or improvement, and have a plan to start moving toward filing for divorce if nothing happens in that time frame. 6 weeks? 3 months? 6 months? Whatever you think works for you.. this gives you focus on a goal instead of kind of twisting in the wind waiting, and can help you start to look ahead so you aren't stuck. It also give time for there to be some changes from seeing the MC, if there are to be any. I hope you are able to stay on the healthy path through all of this, you've come so far and should be so proud of yourself!


----------



## AVR1962

My thought here is that you have not received support from your husband. Instead you have received a great deal of hurtful criticism. You make an effort to lose the weight that he complained about for years thinking this was the answer to save the marriage and make him happy and he is still unsupportive and complaining. I believe that would make anyone sensitive. Rather than understanding, he is belittling you. My thinking is that slowly thru the years you emotionally distanced yourself as he kept up his hurtful comments. You realized you were no longer feeling the way you once did, no surprise....anyone would emotionally distance themselves from a person who they felt belittled by. When you realized you needed to do something to save the marriage you opted for surgery hoping it would make you both happy but instead you probably realized just how far you had emotionally distanced yourself and now you are questioning if there is any way to recover.

He can be the most faithful man, steady wage earner, good father but if you have walked out the door emotionally you have disengaged from him. I feel this is very common in long term marriages. I, myself, was married 24 years and have known many ladies my age who have been in marriages as long and once we have emotionally checked out, usually because of things you have described which makes us feel unloved and unwanted, we have to make a real hard decision as to what we want from the rest of our lives. Do we want to continue to live like this? Is this a marriage? Does your happiness count? What would happen to the children if you split? All these thoughts run thru our heads.....am I not right here?

My, now, ex wanted to place blame on me and wanted me to accept him the way he was and I could not do that. He was passive-aggressive (passively controlling), not affectionate, had his nose constantly in his phone or playing games and doing stuff on the computer or watching TV, always looking at porn and seeking the attention of other women but made no time or effort to do anything with me. We did marriage counseling and the man lied to our counselor, he had no intentions of trying to meet me half way. My feelings continued to grow harder for the man to a point I could not even stand to be in the same room as him. Finally one day, something was said and I was done and the line was clear-cut at that point. I have been single now for over 2 years and realize I stayed way too long in a marriage that really was never much of a marriage at all. Enough about me.....I said that all in case you were feeling the same and trying to understand your own feelings. It is a confusing time.

Personally, I feel one of the quickest ways a marriage gets destroyed (aside of infidelity) is the woman gets left alone...alone to care for the kids and house while husband works, alone while he goes out with his buddies to drink or watch sports, alone to deal with life's hard issues...he doesn't want to get involved or lead support, alone while he pursues hobbies and personal interests. He simply is no longer there for you in any way and it feels like all you have become is roommates passing each other in the hallway. You are going thru the motions as a couple but no longer are engaging with one another on any kind of deeper level.


----------



## ABHale

Why stay in a hurtful relationship? He is very abusive towards you. In front of your boys no less. What a lesson he is teaching them so they can treat their future wives that away.


----------



## ABHale

One other thing, if he hurts you in front of them their love for him will turn to hate. 

You need space from him. Be careful.


----------



## turnera

dolphin, please download this book and start reading it tonight. Please. 
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO


----------



## Hope Shimmers

BluesPower said:


> You know, honestly, I just don't see this really working out much longer.
> 
> Sorry, but I just really don't. And as a guy, and with only one point of view being presented, but I just have to say that... I really just think that he is a hard A$$ jerk.
> 
> And I say this while being a hard a$$ myself. A lot of men, are just hard on people, hard with the kids, hard with the wife, just hard.
> 
> For them, it makes them feel in control of their life, even though they really are not.
> 
> But him being hard on you about your weight, and not being there for you... There is just no justification for that, there just is not.
> 
> I really think if you are to be happy, you need to think about ending this marriage. Are you perfect, no, I am sure you are not.
> 
> But you know what, you took responsibility to lose the weight, and you have done other things, what has he done?


I could not agree more with Blues.

Get OUT.

He is NOT going to change. I was married to a POS man like yours. Get OUT. 

He has shown you no support in your efforts to make yourself healthier. In fact, he has sabotaged you. He bought you clothes in your old size. He is trying to buy you food he knows damn well you can't eat. He feels like he is losing control over you and he's trying to get it back. 

F* THAT!

This is 100 percent HIS problem and HIS issue. NOT yours. Don't make it yours.

You can't change him. I disagree with all the pro-marriage people on here to say "counseling" (yeah, like hell) and save your marriage at all costs. Kick him to the curb and live your life. You have suffered enough. 

Stop feeling guilty.


----------



## aine

AVR1962 said:


> My thought here is that you have not received support from your husband. Instead you have received a great deal of hurtful criticism. You make an effort to lose the weight that he complained about for years thinking this was the answer to save the marriage and make him happy and he is still unsupportive and complaining. I believe that would make anyone sensitive. Rather than understanding, he is belittling you. My thinking is that slowly thru the years you emotionally distanced yourself as he kept up his hurtful comments. You realized you were no longer feeling the way you once did, no surprise....anyone would emotionally distance themselves from a person who they felt belittled by. When you realized you needed to do something to save the marriage you opted for surgery hoping it would make you both happy but instead you probably realized just how far you had emotionally distanced yourself and now you are questioning if there is any way to recover.
> 
> He can be the most faithful man, steady wage earner, good father but if you have walked out the door emotionally you have disengaged from him. I feel this is very common in long term marriages. I, myself, was married 24 years and have known many ladies my age who have been in marriages as long and once we have emotionally checked out, usually because of things you have described which makes us feel unloved and unwanted, we have to make a real hard decision as to what we want from the rest of our lives. Do we want to continue to live like this? Is this a marriage? Does your happiness count? What would happen to the children if you split? All these thoughts run thru our heads.....am I not right here?
> 
> My, now, ex wanted to place blame on me and wanted me to accept him the way he was and I could not do that. He was passive-aggressive (passively controlling), not affectionate, had his nose constantly in his phone or playing games and doing stuff on the computer or watching TV, always looking at porn and seeking the attention of other women but made no time or effort to do anything with me. We did marriage counseling and the man lied to our counselor, he had no intentions of trying to meet me half way. My feelings continued to grow harder for the man to a point I could not even stand to be in the same room as him. Finally one day, something was said and I was done and the line was clear-cut at that point. I have been single now for over 2 years and realize I stayed way too long in a marriage that really was never much of a marriage at all. Enough about me.....I said that all in case you were feeling the same and trying to understand your own feelings. It is a confusing time.
> 
> Personally, *I feel one of the quickest ways a marriage gets destroyed (aside of infidelity) is the woman gets left alone...alone to care for the kids and house while husband works, alone while he goes out with his buddies to drink or watch sports, alone to deal with life's hard issues...he doesn't want to get involved or lead support, alone while he pursues hobbies and personal interests.* He simply is no longer there for you in any way and it feels like all you have become is roommates passing each other in the hallway. You are going thru the motions as a couple but no longer are engaging with one another on any kind of deeper level.



The bolded is so true! Many years of my marriage was like this, also due to his drinking. When a husband neglects the emotional well being of his wife because he is too busy pursuing other things and also neglects to spent time with her there are usually consequences in the form of a detached wife which leads to no desire to have sex either.

My marriage is slowly getting better simply because I have drawn a line in the sand, refuse to be taken for granted, became self sufficient financially and emotionally and have made it clear if he wants me, he will have to work for a relationship with me. I will not be rolling over and accepting any BS in my life anymore. I did in the past because of kids, money and because I thought I couldn't live without him, duh!


----------



## Girl_power

All you can do is your best. Tell him how him feel. Go to therapy. And if your still not happy then leave him. At the end of the day all we want is to be happy and to be with someone who makes us feel happy and good about ourselves.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Magnesium said:


> I bet he knows quite well what you can and cannot eat and he knows all too well what size you wear now, too. He is being passive aggressive. And every time you show your annoyance or get upset, he wins.
> 
> He sounds like a real jerk, to be honest. A selfish, self-involved, emotionally immature, weak jerk. And, I would be very wary about going to counseling with his type. Definitely individual counseling, though.


Respectfully I disagree with this.

There's something deeper going on.

If he offers to go with you now, to groups/meetings like you wanted, but now you say no, is another clue.

Hang in there. 

Sometimes no rash actions are best. Communication is key.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Why is it SO hard for you to admit that this marriage is over?

The minute I saw you two have been together since you were 15 years old told me all I needed to know.

You've grown apart. that's what happens when teenagers commit 'for life.' More so, he's an abusive, controlling ass-hole.

Why do you continue clinging to this train-wreck of a marriage like grim death, continually slapping band-aids on it so you can pretend it's possibly getting better when in reality, it's on life support? What's the *payoff* in doing that - being able to say you're "still together after 20 years?" Pfffft.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Yes, drawing a line in the sand, and refusing to be taken for granted is key.

You do have to decide; if he turns around, do you still want to be married to him? If not everything else is moot.

If he's real old school he may have fallen into the trap that as long as he's providing well for the family he's doing good. Which is only partially true in this day and age.


----------



## oldshirt

I agree with the others that he is simply a jerk. 

He dated a young teen that wasn't even of legal age as a 20something. When men do that it is because they can control and manipulate them and because women their own age can see through their crap and won't give them the time of day. 

He put you down about your weight as a means to control you and keep you under his thumb. If he could convince you that you were worthless and that no other man would have you and that he was doing you a favor by being with you, then that would put him in the driver's seat and you could be his housekeeper and concubine. 

He did not support your surgery because that would mean you would be laid up for awhile requiring him to take care of the house and the kids more and because he knew that if you lost the weight you would be more attractive to other men and would have more options to replace him. 

That is why he tries to sabotage your diet and exercise. You were more controllable and manipulatable when you were overweight. 

Now that you are more fit and have better self esteem, you will be less controllable and more likely and able to leave him and find someone else. 

He may seem strict and controlling on the outside, but inside he is weak and insecure and knows that he will not be able to keep you. 

Instead of stepping up to the plate and trying to better himself and trying to treat you better and be more supportive and in partnership with you, he is trying to sabotage you and get the overweight, controllable you back again. 

In many ways this is a character issue and character flaws cannot be corrected by therapy or counseling. The therapist/counselor can tell him he's being a jerk and should treat you with more respect and partnership, but therapy/counseling does not turn a jerk into a decent person. 

Individual therapy can help you establish effective boundaries and help you assert your needs and boundaries better and help you make game plans for pursuing your well being. But therapy/counseling will not transform him into a different person.


----------



## AVR1962

aine said:


> The bolded is so true! Many years of my marriage was like this, also due to his drinking. When a husband neglects the emotional well being of his wife because he is too busy pursuing other things and also neglects to spent time with her there are usually consequences in the form of a detached wife which leads to no desire to have sex either.
> 
> My marriage is slowly getting better simply because I have drawn a line in the sand, refuse to be taken for granted, became self sufficient financially and emotionally and have made it clear if he wants me, he will have to work for a relationship with me. I will not be rolling over and accepting any BS in my life anymore. I did in the past because of kids, money and because I thought I couldn't live without him, duh!


I hope it works for you, sounds like you are on a good track. I have always had my own income and been rather independent and self sufficient. People who have to control, whether overt or covert, are Users. They use people for THEIR needs, to make THEM feel good about themselves. Others in their lives are nothing, more like chess pieces, it's all how they can move the pieces and get what they want rather than understanding and lending compassion to others....something they are not capable of. Add drinking on top of this.....like my ex who would start drinking as soon as he entered the door from work.....he locked himself into his own world, I was completely ignored. There was nothing in his life that was about me until I left. he then was crying to our friends how he loved me. Really? And yes, because of his desire for control, the lack of support, his drinking and spending no time together I gave up with time even trying to do anything with him. I emotionally distanced myself and after a while I could not let the man touch me so we lived as roommates for the last 5 years of our marriage which is not a marriage.


----------



## Thound

Some people are just *******s. Sounds like your husband is one. Don't feel bad. My wife fell out of love with me for no reason. **** happens


----------



## bluedolphin

Thank you all for your words.
It’s hard to read some of the comments. I never would have described him as a jerk… controlling yes, verbally abusive sometimes yes… but jerk seems a bit harsh.

He loves in the only way he knows how. It’s just sad it’s not the way I want to be loved.

To respond to some of the comments: I said I would stay for financial reasons. We both make good money, both in management positions. He maybe makes 10k mare than me, but with the kids sports, it would be hard to offer them the same opportunities if we split. They travel a lot and it’s hard to keep up with the expenses even now.

I am concentrating on myself lately, not so much on the relationship and I am not sure if this is good. But I feel drained, I can’t deal with this turmoil anymore, as I feel I am losing my mind. I have reached the goal weight that the doctors set up for me, I am working out 6 times a week and I am in the best shape of my adult life. I feel so strong physically and so damn proud of myself.


I am starting to see what everyone is saying here: that he is feeling insecure now, he’s afraid of losing me. I don’t think he ever thought of us separating until the MC mentioned two words: “friends” and “co-parenting”. His face went completely white and I thought he is going to faint. He recovered quickly and since then he is walking on eggshells. He is even afraid to talk to me.
The MC asked me in an individual session what it would take for me to stay in this marriage. I was speechless. I don’t know… My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up 

Thanks!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bluedolphin said:


> I am starting to see what everyone is saying here: that he is feeling insecure now, he’s afraid of losing me. I don’t think he ever thought of us separating until the MC mentioned two words: “friends” and “co-parenting”. His face went completely white and I thought he is going to faint. He recovered quickly and since then he is walking on eggshells. He is even afraid to talk to me.
> The MC asked me in an individual session what it would take for me to stay in this marriage. I was speechless. I don’t know… My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up 
> 
> Thanks!


You are NOT screwed up, not at all! If that was your first thought, then I think that says a lot. If he was afraid of losing you, he would never have been so mean and insulted you in the first place, and he would have been supportive of you all along. Maybe this will wake him up, though I fear any change would only be temporary to keep his world from crumbling. 

I was glad to read you are proud of yourself, you SHOULD be!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

But at some point you have to make a decision, for your own sanity.

Riding the fence for long term only agitates things. After a while new issues are created.

Good luck!


----------



## turnera

Dolphin, did you get the book I suggested? No matter what you choose, it will make everything vastly more clear.

Also, at one point, my body failed me, and I went to my doctor. Turns out, it was the stress of being married to a controlling man, and I had tried to stuff it inside and just push through and survive - until I couldn't. He said I can keep pretending nothing is wrong but unfortunately, my body KNOWS what's wrong and can only prop me up for so long. 

You want what's best for your kids, you say. So what's more important - your kids keeping to do all these sports all the time all over the place with a shell of a person masquerading as their mother, or having a happy, healthy mom who is laughing and having fun with them and having the energy to create all kinds of great moments with them that will last a lifetime?

I spent my whole daughter's childhood depressed, repressed, unable to just go out and have fun with her. Now she's in therapy because of it. If I had just learned to defend myself against my husband (so much like yours), her whole life would have been different.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

You certainly wouldn't be the first woman to use her kids as an excuse to do nothing and stay in a bad marriage due to inertia and fear of the unknown.

As for your husband, he's running scared at the moment so of COURSE he's watching his P's and Q's. 

But check back in with him in 3 or 4 months when the dust has settled - he'll likely be the same controlling, verbally abusive jerk he's always been.

You've just shaken things up at the moment. But eventually, the dust will settle again and you'll be right back to where you've always been.


----------



## Hope Shimmers

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why is it SO hard for you to admit that this marriage is over?
> 
> The minute I saw you two have been together since you were 15 years old told me all I needed to know.
> 
> You've grown apart. that's what happens when teenagers commit 'for life.' More so, he's an abusive, controlling ass-hole.
> 
> Why do you continue clinging to this train-wreck of a marriage like grim death, continually slapping band-aids on it so you can pretend it's possibly getting better when in reality, it's on life support? What's the *payoff* in doing that - being able to say you're "still together after 20 years?" Pfffft.


Wow, what do you REALLY think? :rofl:

Seriously, I agree with you, but I have to brace myself every time I read one of your posts. 

OP, this guy has a problem, and he's trying to transfer it onto you. It's HIS issue. You might have to do something drastic to get out of it, but you wouldn't be the first person, and you seem strong.


----------



## SunCMars

AVR1962 said:


> My thought here is that you have not received support from your husband. Instead you have received a great deal of hurtful criticism. You make an effort to lose the weight that he complained about for years thinking this was the answer to save the marriage and make him happy and he is still unsupportive and complaining. I believe that would make anyone sensitive. Rather than understanding, he is belittling you. My thinking is that slowly thru the years you emotionally distanced yourself as he kept up his hurtful comments. You realized you were no longer feeling the way you once did, no surprise....anyone would emotionally distance themselves from a person who they felt belittled by. When you realized you needed to do something to save the marriage you opted for surgery hoping it would make you both happy but instead you probably realized just how far you had emotionally distanced yourself and now you are questioning if there is any way to recover.
> 
> He can be the most faithful man, steady wage earner, good father but if you have walked out the door emotionally you have disengaged from him. I feel this is very common in long term marriages. I, myself, was married 24 years and have known many ladies my age who have been in marriages as long and once we have emotionally checked out, usually because of things you have described which makes us feel unloved and unwanted, we have to make a real hard decision as to what we want from the rest of our lives. Do we want to continue to live like this? Is this a marriage? Does your happiness count? What would happen to the children if you split? All these thoughts run thru our heads.....am I not right here?
> 
> My, now, ex wanted to place blame on me and wanted me to accept him the way he was and I could not do that. He was passive-aggressive (passively controlling), not affectionate, had his nose constantly in his phone or playing games and doing stuff on the computer or watching TV, always looking at porn and seeking the attention of other women but made no time or effort to do anything with me. We did marriage counseling and the man lied to our counselor, he had no intentions of trying to meet me half way. My feelings continued to grow harder for the man to a point I could not even stand to be in the same room as him. Finally one day, something was said and I was done and the line was clear-cut at that point. I have been single now for over 2 years and realize I stayed way too long in a marriage that really was never much of a marriage at all. Enough about me.....I said that all in case you were feeling the same and trying to understand your own feelings. It is a confusing time.
> 
> Personally, I feel one of the quickest ways a marriage gets destroyed (aside of infidelity) is the woman gets left alone...alone to care for the kids and house while husband works, alone while he goes out with his buddies to drink or watch sports, alone to deal with life's hard issues...he doesn't want to get involved or lead support, alone while he pursues hobbies and personal interests. He simply is no longer there for you in any way and it feels like all you have become is roommates passing each other in the hallway. You are going thru the motions as a couple but no longer are engaging with one another on any kind of deeper level.


In short, he was a 'checked out' husband, not courteous enough to simple end it, part ways and let you start over. 
Or, in some of these marriages, the man says he wants out, but is too passive to actually do it. It is easier to put it off for another day.

I certainly am not saying this was the case in your marriage, but if one of the partners feels this way, no progress will be made, the marriage will continue to deteriorate and both parties will stay miserable.
You vowed to stay with each other till 'death do you part', does not have to mean you feel like you are in an open air prison.
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

Blue Dolphin does not have the same issues as you had but there are some similarities, such as actionable indifference on her husbands part. He knows he is controlling, does not change.

In truth, that is who he is. He cannot change who he is. 
Nobody can.

He is {martial, aggressive} a Martian, an Aries type, having that type of dominant aggressive personality. It is all about him and his feelings.
Knowing why one clashes with others is not the cure. While it helps, does not eliminate his core personality.

In casual, say, work relationships, an aggressive hard-headed person can temporary restrain their impulses, but not so when one lives with another person or family.


Yes, there are some who are have rather weak acting social quirks that can change for the better.

If one could change who we are, there would be no crime, no prisons, no mental institutions.

Counseling can only help so much. 


Just Sayin'



[THRD]


----------



## SunCMars

Hope Shimmers said:


> Wow, what do you REALLY think? :rofl:
> 
> Seriously, I agree with you, but I have to brace myself every time I read one of your posts.
> 
> OP, this guy has a problem, and he's trying to transfer it onto you. It's HIS issue. You might have to do something drastic to get out of it, but you wouldn't be the first person, and you seem strong.


Don't encourage SSGI. She is a tad controlling herself! :surprise:


----------



## personofinterest

Opie, I am appalled that anyone would defend your husband or encourage you to continue to endure what he has probably been dishing out since you were a sophomore in high school. Let's let that sink in a minute. He was an adult male dating a soft more in high school. This man has serious control issues, and no matter how nifty clean you make your side of the street, I don't think he is going to change. If I were you I would be very clear about my own boundaries, I would have ways of escape when he starts in on you, and I would be very clear with him about what it will take for you to stay married to him. Then just give it 6 months and see if he is consistent.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bluedolphin said:


> Thank you all for your words.
> It’s hard to read some of the comments. I never would have described him as a jerk… controlling yes, verbally abusive sometimes yes… but jerk seems a bit harsh.
> 
> He loves in the only way he knows how. It’s just sad it’s not the way I want to be loved.
> 
> To respond to some of the comments: I said I would stay for financial reasons. We both make good money, both in management positions. He maybe makes 10k mare than me, but with the kids sports, it would be hard to offer them the same opportunities if we split. They travel a lot and it’s hard to keep up with the expenses even now.
> 
> I am concentrating on myself lately, not so much on the relationship and I am not sure if this is good. But I feel drained, I can’t deal with this turmoil anymore, as I feel I am losing my mind. I have reached the goal weight that the doctors set up for me, I am working out 6 times a week and I am in the best shape of my adult life. I feel so strong physically and so damn proud of myself.
> 
> 
> I am starting to see what everyone is saying here: that he is feeling insecure now, he’s afraid of losing me. I don’t think he ever thought of us separating until the MC mentioned two words: “friends” and “co-parenting”. His face went completely white and I thought he is going to faint. He recovered quickly and since then he is walking on eggshells. He is even afraid to talk to me.
> The MC asked me in an individual session what it would take for me to stay in this marriage. I was speechless. I don’t know… *My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something*… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up 
> 
> Thanks!



I am sure you are aware of the high number of divorces in the fIrst years following weight loss surgery. 

Has your husband brought this up? Or the therapist? 

Perhaps just plainly tell him and your children that after 25 years and 3 children you now see yourself in a different place partner wise and it does not include him.

If he is as bad as you claim he is I am certain your children have noticed and they will understand. 

As for what he thinks what do you care? You clearly want him out of the picture. Just tell him what you really want as highlighted above so he as you have mentally can move on with his life too.


----------



## bluedolphin

We talked yesterday for an hour. He took me out for lunch for our anniversary and I asked him how he is. He ordered just a salad, he looks tired, defeated, almost crying. It's hard for me to see him like this. He said he will do anything I want to make it work. Probably other people would be happy to hear this, but I just hate this desperation to make it work at any costs. Probably I am checked out, as everyone says.
He says he cannot change the past, just work on him from now on. And that he can't believe I am ready to throw away a 25 year relationship for what he said in the past. 
He keeps repeating over and over that he just tried to help me to lose weight. And that that he was losing his temper and verbally abusing me because he didn't know how else to "make me understand". What he doesn't get is that all those fights chipped away all my love for him along the years. He asked why I didn't say then what I am saying now. I told him I did, he just didn't want to listen. 
What scares me is the intensity of his love for me. It's like a blind love, the kind you cannot live without. He cannot imagine a life without me. It's like an obsession. What the heck? 
He is begging me now to try to make this marriage work. He is being so subdued for the last few days and I asked him why. He thinks this is what I want: him not having any opinion or say. I told him I don't need a doormat. I need a man.

Turnera, I ordered the book


----------



## personofinterest

bluedolphin said:


> We talked yesterday for an hour. He took me out for lunch for our anniversary and I asked him how he is. He ordered just a salad, he looks tired, defeated, almost crying. It's hard for me to see him like this. He said he will do anything I want to make it work. Probably other people would be happy to hear this, but I just hate this desperation to make it work at any costs. Probably I am checked out, as everyone says.
> He says he cannot change the past, just work on him from now on. And that he can't believe I am ready to throw away a 25 year relationship for what he said in the past.
> He keeps repeating over and over that he just tried to help me to lose weight. And that that he was losing his temper and verbally abusing me because he didn't know how else to "make me understand". What he doesn't get is that all those fights chipped away all my love for him along the years. He asked why I didn't say then what I am saying now. I told him I did, he just didn't want to listen.
> What scares me is the intensity of his love for me. It's like a blind love, the kind you cannot live without. He cannot imagine a life without me. It's like an obsession. What the heck?
> He is begging me now to try to make this marriage work. He is being so subdued for the last few days and I asked him why. He thinks this is what I want: him not having any opinion or say. I told him I don't need a doormat. I need a man.
> 
> Turnera, I ordered the book


He is manipulating, gaslighting, and blameshifting. He is making excuses and trying to play on your guilt.


----------



## jlg07

bluedolphin said:


> Thank you all for your words.
> It’s hard to read some of the comments. I never would have described him as a jerk… controlling yes, verbally abusive sometimes yes… but jerk seems a bit harsh.
> 
> He loves in the only way he knows how. It’s just sad it’s not the way I want to be loved.
> 
> To respond to some of the comments: I said I would stay for financial reasons. We both make good money, both in management positions. He maybe makes 10k mare than me, but with the kids sports, it would be hard to offer them the same opportunities if we split. They travel a lot and it’s hard to keep up with the expenses even now.
> 
> *I am concentrating on myself lately, not so much on the relationship* and I am not sure if this is good. But I feel drained, I can’t deal with this turmoil anymore, as I feel I am losing my mind. I have reached the goal weight that the doctors set up for me, I am working out 6 times a week and I am in the best shape of my adult life. I feel so strong physically and so damn proud of myself.
> 
> 
> *I am starting to see what everyone is saying here: that he is feeling insecure now, he’s afraid of losing me. I don’t think he ever thought of us separating until the MC mentioned two words: “friends” and “co-parenting”. His face went completely white and I thought he is going to faint. He recovered quickly and since then he is walking on eggshells. He is even afraid to talk to me.*
> The MC asked me in an individual session what it would take for me to stay in this marriage. I was speechless. I don’t know… My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up 
> 
> Thanks!


I think that the bolded are VERY pertinent to what your husband is doing. He is PETRIFIED that you are going to leave him. HE was the good looking one, HE had the higher sex quotient in the relationship, and he liked it that way. Now, you are looking good, in great shape, being more independent, and he is completely unused to the dynamic and has NO way to deal with it. He's trying to do what he did before -- be demanding/controlling to get back to what he knows. He is probably feeling that with your time at the gym and looking good that you are going to find someone else and either have an affair or give him his walking papers.

I know it sounds hard, but I think you really need to sit and talk with him about your dynamics and how to help him find a new way to deal with all this (of course the MC should help guide this also).


----------



## turnera

My abusive ex-fiance came to me day after day after day, once I broke up with him. He couldn't eat. He couldn't work, was going to lose his job. He couldn't study, he'd have to drop out of college. Tears galore. I held firm and after about 3 weeks (any my male coworkers telling him to back off), he went away. I felt SO bad because he just seemed like he was about to die. 

He was married 6 months later.

Abusers are amazing at two things: making you feel like you're the most special person on earth - while they are pursuing you, and making everything all.about.them and being self-absorbed when things aren't going well.

Tell him you won't file for 6 months. He has 6 months to get therapy, become a new person, shed all semblance of abuse from himself, and be consistent. At the end of 6 months, you'll consider NOT filing.


----------



## Tron

personofinterest said:


> He is manipulating, gaslighting, and blameshifting. He is making excuses and trying to play on your guilt.


I'm just not getting that vibe. 

And I don't think that this situation is all on BD's H. She admits that her H has some very good qualities. Some very bad ones too and that they don't always agree. Prior to now, I gather that she has tended to defer to him. I don't really know why. Perhaps that was because of her upbringing, her family of origin, low self esteem, submissive tendencies, conflict avoidance, co-dependence...who knows. 

True, he is strict and is a bit controlling. I also gather that he has pretty high expectations for both his W and kids. Curiously, I get the same vibe from BD. And if he was the ogre she portrays, I just don't think the kids would think so highly of him.

True, he says things he shouldn't in the heat of anger. Hmmm. :scratchhead: That's never happened before...<sarcasm> 

True, he didn't like BD being fat. But, she was never going to change that until she was good and ready. 

True, he's a bit dense and hasn't been especially engaged in her surgery, her counseling and her health improvements. I wonder who has been taking care of all the busy kid stuff while she's been doing all of that or while she's been working out for 2 hours per day? It should be noted that he's been quite complimentary and positive regarding her physical changes. 

I think that what's also true is that until now, he hasn't had to really reflect on his role in the slow demise of the relationship. It's pretty clear he has finally realized that the dynamics have changed. And he is amenable to counseling! Controlling abusers don't tend to do that or if they do, they outright lie and minimize to the counselor. Has he done that?

BD, I don't know if your H has ever apologized for some of the crap he pulled, but I think it is clear that you are full of resentment and that you won't let things go. I think that a lot of these feelings have been building for a long time and that your recent physical changes have exacerbated your emotions. I also believe that in some ways you have as much culpability in the marital dynamics as your H, be they from your FOO or because of who you were/are. 

If you've now found your voice, I'd suggest that you continue with counseling and don't make any rash decisions. You've personally gone through a lot of physical and emotional changes in the past year (that are still ongoing), so you might consider giving your H a chance to catch up before you torpedo a 20 year marriage. Your kids will certainly appreciate it, I can guarantee you that.

BTW, have you recently been getting a lot of male attention or met any nice looking guys or trainers at the gym?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bluedolphin said:


> We talked yesterday for an hour. He took me out for lunch for our anniversary and I asked him how he is. He ordered just a salad, he looks tired, defeated, almost crying. It's hard for me to see him like this. He said he will do anything I want to make it work. Probably other people would be happy to hear this, but I just hate this desperation to make it work at any costs. Probably I am checked out, as everyone says.


My XH did the same thing, when he saw I was actually on my way out the door. After ignoring me for almost 3 years, suddenly he loved me SO MUCH, begged, pleaded, attached himself to my every move. For me it was entirely too late. 



bluedolphin said:


> He says he cannot change the past, just work on him from now on. And that he can't believe I am ready to throw away a 25 year relationship for what he said in the past.


Minimizing. Blameshifting.



bluedolphin said:


> He keeps repeating over and over that he just tried to help me to lose weight. And that that he was losing his temper and verbally abusing me because he didn't know how else to "make me understand".


More blameshifting. You just didn't understand, so this is what he HAD to do. Its your fault he had to be an ass. 



bluedolphin said:


> What he doesn't get is that all those fights chipped away all my love for him along the years. He asked why I didn't say then what I am saying now. I told him I did, he just didn't want to listen.
> What scares me is the intensity of his love for me. It's like a blind love, the kind you cannot live without. He cannot imagine a life without me. It's like an obsession. What the heck?
> He is begging me now to try to make this marriage work. He is being so subdued for the last few days and I asked him why. He thinks this is what I want: him not having any opinion or say. I told him I don't need a doormat. I need a man.
> 
> Turnera, I ordered the book


I don't think that the intensity he is expressing is really love, more like he is fighting for his life to not change, sorry to say. The fact that he really isn't taking accountability for his actions, or comprehending that its those actions that hurt you and drove you away, backs my theory on this. Just like I don't believe that my XH really loved me... he just never wanted a divorce. He even said that.."I always said I'd never get divorced!" Well newsflash, in order to not end up in divorce, don't treat your spouse like trash.


----------



## personofinterest

Tron said:


> I'm just not getting that vibe.
> 
> And I don't think that this situation is all on BD's H. She admits that her H has some very good qualities. Some very bad ones too and that they don't always agree. Prior to now, I gather that she has tended to defer to him. I don't really know why. Perhaps that was because of her upbringing, her family of origin, low self esteem, submissive tendencies, conflict avoidance, co-dependence...who knows.
> 
> True, he is strict and is a bit controlling. I also gather that he has pretty high expectations for both his W and kids. Curiously, I get the same vibe from BD. And if he was the ogre she portrays, I just don't think the kids would think so highly of him.
> 
> True, he says things he shouldn't in the heat of anger. Hmmm. :scratchhead: That's never happened before...<sarcasm>
> 
> True, he didn't like BD being fat. But, she was never going to change that until she was good and ready.
> 
> True, he's a bit dense and hasn't been especially engaged in her surgery, her counseling and her health improvements. I wonder who has been taking care of all the busy kid stuff while she's been doing all of that or while she's been working out for 2 hours per day? It should be noted that he's been quite complimentary and positive regarding her physical changes.
> 
> I think that what's also true is that until now, he hasn't had to really reflect on his role in the slow demise of the relationship. It's pretty clear he has finally realized that the dynamics have changed. And he is amenable to counseling! Controlling abusers don't tend to do that or if they do, they outright lie and minimize to the counselor. Has he done that?
> 
> BD, I don't know if your H has ever apologized for some of the crap he pulled, but I think it is clear that you are full of resentment and that you won't let things go. I think that a lot of these feelings have been building for a long time and that your recent physical changes have exacerbated your emotions. I also believe that in some ways you have as much culpability in the marital dynamics as your H, be they from your FOO or because of who you were/are.
> 
> If you've now found your voice, I'd suggest that you continue with counseling and don't make any rash decisions. You've personally gone through a lot of physical and emotional changes in the past year (that are still ongoing), so you might consider giving your H a chance to catch up before you torpedo a 20 year marriage. Your kids will certainly appreciate it, I can guarantee you that.
> 
> *BTW, have you recently been getting a lot of male attention or met any nice looking guys or trainers at the gym?*



Aaaannnnd here we go...

As far as the rest of the post, it seems like very eloquent minimization to me.


----------



## Tron

personofinterest said:


> Aaaannnnd here we go...
> 
> As far as the rest of the post, it seems like very eloquent minimization to me.


Thank you! :grin2: I tried very hard!

I determined we were light on variety and that this thread needed some more perspectives other than a bunch of ladies telling her to ****can his a$$.


----------



## bluedolphin

Tron said:


> I'm just not getting that vibe.
> 
> And I don't think that this situation is all on BD's H. She admits that her H has some very good qualities. Some very bad ones too and that they don't always agree. Prior to now, I gather that she has tended to defer to him. I don't really know why. Perhaps that was because of her upbringing, her family of origin, low self esteem, submissive tendencies, conflict avoidance, co-dependence...who knows.
> 
> True, he is strict and is a bit controlling. I also gather that he has pretty high expectations for both his W and kids. Curiously, I get the same vibe from BD. And if he was the ogre she portrays, I just don't think the kids would think so highly of him.
> 
> True, he says things he shouldn't in the heat of anger. Hmmm. :scratchhead: That's never happened before...<sarcasm>
> 
> True, he didn't like BD being fat. But, she was never going to change that until she was good and ready.
> 
> True, he's a bit dense and hasn't been especially engaged in her surgery, her counseling and her health improvements. I wonder who has been taking care of all the busy kid stuff while she's been doing all of that or while she's been working out for 2 hours per day? It should be noted that he's been quite complimentary and positive regarding her physical changes.
> 
> I think that what's also true is that until now, he hasn't had to really reflect on his role in the slow demise of the relationship. It's pretty clear he has finally realized that the dynamics have changed. And he is amenable to counseling! Controlling abusers don't tend to do that or if they do, they outright lie and minimize to the counselor. Has he done that?
> 
> BD, I don't know if your H has ever apologized for some of the crap he pulled, but I think it is clear that you are full of resentment and that you won't let things go. I think that a lot of these feelings have been building for a long time and that your recent physical changes have exacerbated your emotions. I also believe that in some ways you have as much culpability in the marital dynamics as your H, be they from your FOO or because of who you were/are.
> 
> If you've now found your voice, I'd suggest that you continue with counseling and don't make any rash decisions. You've personally gone through a lot of physical and emotional changes in the past year (that are still ongoing), so you might consider giving your H a chance to catch up before you torpedo a 20 year marriage. Your kids will certainly appreciate it, I can guarantee you that.
> 
> BTW, have you recently been getting a lot of male attention or met any nice looking guys or trainers at the gym?



Your post put a smile on my face! Thanks! It's one of the most accurate description of my marriage , the way I see it in my head anyway. 
I never saw my H as a jerk. Never! And I know I have my share of blame for where we are right now.
TBH, I could never and will never understand his feelings of having an overweight wife for so long. I can't understand because him, as my partner, was always so fit. It must have been hard for him too. That doesn't justify his abusive behaviour, I know, but it must have been difficult for him to watch me gain weight and deteriorating my health. 

To respond to some of the questions... I am still in charge of most of the carpools for the kids, housework is split between us. I am squeezing my exercise early mornings or late nights ( I only sleep 4-5 hours a night now, trying to correct that). Maybe I am taking time from my family life to exercise, but I completely eliminated watching TV or some of my hobbies, just to keep up with the family needs . I started driving the kids 5 days after surgery, because I didn't want our life to be impacted too much by "my decision" . I didn't take my time to recover properly and I see that now.


He was very receptive of going to counselling, he did apologize for what he said in the past. And yes, the kids look up to him.

The thing that keeps me on the fence is that I still see the same pattern of behaviour when he feels he is losing the control. It's still the same passive aggressive tone, just now he is trying more to stop himself before it gets out of hand. That's progress, I know.


As for your last question, yes, I do get more male attention and that is a very new thing for me. Because I am not used to it, it felt creepy in the beginning. And my personal trainer is a young guy who is only a few years older than my son, so no, I don't think of him as good looking . He puts me through so much pain that I want to strangle him every time I see him... just kidding!


----------



## bluedolphin

Tron said:


> Thank you! :grin2: I tried very hard!
> 
> I determined we were light on variety and that this thread needed some more perspectives other than a bunch of ladies telling her to ****can his a$$.


:grin2: you've tried for sure! 
Just to assure you, no one else is in the picture, not on his side or mine...


----------



## Tron

bluedolphin said:


> :grin2: you've tried for sure!
> Just to assure you, no one else is in the picture, not on his side or mine...


I was hoping that was the case. You never know.

I'd like to point out to you that I have been on this site for close to five years and been reading threads sometimes that were 10 years old or older. You have no idea how many times guys have shown up here saying "Our marriage has had some ups and downs, but I always thought it was pretty good and our kids are happy...my wife has had self esteem issues, recently lost a lot of weight, is exercising a ton at the gym with her new trainer and is looking really better than she did in college...she picks fights with me over nothing or some old crappola and is always so distant" 

Then almost without fail, a week later, after he does some investigating we get..."I just found out that she's been having an affair with...the trainer...her boss...our neighbor...our kid's coach...the pool boy...etc. and I'm devastated."

Another family destroyed :crying::crying::crying:

I guess you could call it the female version of the Mid-Life Crisis. The other man is some douche player, has a few women in his rotation and she got sucked in by all the attention. And things almost never turn out the way the women think they will. 

So please beware. 

Bottom line is men care about how their women look. Some more than others but they care. And some are more diplomatic about it than others.

I'm pretty good at reading between the lines and I by nature and training know that there are always two sides to a story. There is another side to this particular story. No less valid IMO.

I think you've got a decent guy that has a few faults and just needs to do a little work on himself. So he robbed the cradle a little. He isn't so nice all the time. He's a bit of a horses a$$. He's not perfect and never will be. But he's loyal, he loves your kids like no other man ever will and I believe he even loves you...more than you think. He stuck around. He seems willing to keep trying.

Help him out.


----------



## bluedolphin

Tron said:


> I was hoping that was the case. You never know.
> 
> *I'd like to point out to you that I have been on this site for close to five years and been reading threads sometimes that were 10 years old or older. You have no idea how many times guys have shown up here saying "Our marriage has had some ups and downs, but I always thought it was pretty good and our kids are happy...my wife has had self esteem issues, recently lost a lot of weight, is exercising a ton at the gym with her new trainer and is looking really better than she did in college...she picks fights with me over nothing or some old crappola and is always so distant"
> 
> Then almost without fail, a week later, after he does some investigating we get..."I just found out that she's been having an affair with...the trainer...her boss...our neighbor...our kid's coach...the pool boy...etc. and I'm devastated."
> 
> Another family destroyed :crying::crying::crying:
> 
> I guess you could call it the female version of the Mid-Life Crisis. The other man is some douche player, has a few women in his rotation and she got sucked in by all the attention. And things almost never turn out the way the women think they will.
> 
> So please beware.
> *
> Bottom line is men care about how their women look. Some more than others but they care. And some are more diplomatic about it than others.
> 
> I'm pretty good at reading between the lines and I by nature and training know that there are always two sides to a story. There is another side to this particular story. No less valid IMO.
> 
> I think you've got a decent guy that has a few faults and just needs to do a little work on himself. So he robbed the cradle a little. He isn't so nice all the time. He's a bit of a horses a$$. He's not perfect and never will be. But he's loyal, he loves your kids like no other man ever will and I believe he even loves you...more than you think. He stuck around. He seems willing to keep trying.
> 
> Help him out.


Thanks Tron!

As for the bolded part, I am aware of the dangers. But it won't happen. I'm just not the type.


----------



## personofinterest

Please be aware that some posters will minimize a man's flaws, and when you read their comments about a woman with problems, they are merciless. That kind of bias is worth noting.


----------



## Tron

You touched on this, but you really need to be getting some more sleep! 

As busy as you seem to be, and working on top of it, your only getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep per day? That is not healthy and doing that day after day is going to mess with your mind. These are some symptoms of ongoing sleep loss:

1. daytime sleepiness
2. yawning.
3. moodiness.
4. fatigue.
5. irritability.
6. depressed mood.
7. difficulty learning new concepts.
8. forgetfulness.
9. inability to concentrate or a "fuzzy" head.

Do you recognize any of these??? Because in your initial two posts I think I could tag at least 4 or 5.

You don't want to be making life decisions under these conditions. 

You might want to talk to your attending physician about some temporary sleep meds and culling down your schedule to something a little more manageable.


----------



## Tron

personofinterest said:


> Please be aware that some posters will minimize a man's flaws, and when you read their comments about a woman with problems, they are merciless. That kind of bias is worth noting.












I think that we are pretty merciless to men with problems too, especially doormats, co-dependents and wife-beaters.

That men seem to fix things quicker is worth noting. :wink2:


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bluedolphin said:


> Your post put a smile on my face! Thanks! It's one of the most accurate description of my marriage , the way I see it in my head anyway.
> I never saw my H as a jerk. Never! And I know I have my share of blame for where we are right now.
> TBH, I could never and will never understand his feelings of having an overweight wife for so long. I can't understand because him, as my partner, was always so fit. It must have been hard for him too. That doesn't justify his abusive behaviour, I know, but it must have been difficult for him to watch me gain weight and deteriorating my health.
> 
> To respond to some of the questions... I am still in charge of most of the carpools for the kids, housework is split between us. I am squeezing my exercise early mornings or late nights ( I only sleep 4-5 hours a night now, trying to correct that). Maybe I am taking time from my family life to exercise, but I completely eliminated watching TV or some of my hobbies, just to keep up with the family needs . I started driving the kids 5 days after surgery, because I didn't want our life to be impacted too much by "my decision" . I didn't take my time to recover properly and I see that now.
> 
> 
> He was very receptive of going to counselling, he did apologize for what he said in the past. And yes, the kids look up to him.
> 
> The thing that keeps me on the fence is that I still see the same pattern of behaviour when he feels he is losing the control. It's still the same passive aggressive tone, just now he is trying more to stop himself before it gets out of hand. That's progress, I know.
> 
> 
> As for your last question, yes, I do get more male attention and that is a very new thing for me. Because I am not used to it, it felt creepy in the beginning. And my personal trainer is a young guy who is only a few years older than my son, so no, I don't think of him as good looking . He puts me through so much pain that I want to strangle him every time I see him... just kidding!


Losing control or knows you are no longer interested in him as a partner? That you see greener pastures ahead?

Men are capable of sensing that a women is no longer attracted to them or loves them and are just going through the motions. 

Have you told your children how you feel ? The oldest? As controlling as you say he is I am sure they would understand your leaving him. Right?


----------



## personofinterest

Greener pastures? Give me a break, this projection is ridiculous. The original poster has repeatedly stated that she is not intrested in any one, is not looking for anyone, is aware of the danger, and is careful. Just because your spouse was a crapy cheater doesn't mean everyone with a vaginae is.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

personofinterest said:


> Greener pastures? Give me a break, this projection is ridiculous. The original poster has repeatedly stated that she is not intrested in any one, is not looking for anyone, is aware of the danger, and is careful. Just because your spouse was a crapy cheater doesn't mean everyone with a vaginae is.


You have nooo idea about my spouse or what my generalizations of 'anyone with a vagina' are. 

And her post:

"My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up "

In black and white. Read it. 

You are actually projecting.


----------



## turnera

No, the OP is saying that she is f*cking tired of living with a horrible person and daydreams of having a life with a decent spouse. You don't have to be cheating to be thinking that. I daydream of my husband meeting an untoward end, to relieve most of my problems, but that doesn't mean I would ever actively want him dead.


----------



## personofinterest

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greener pastures? Give me a break, this projection is ridiculous. The original poster has repeatedly stated that she is not intrested in any one, is not looking for anyone, is aware of the danger, and is careful. Just because your spouse was a crapy cheater doesn't mean everyone with a vaginae is.
> 
> 
> 
> You have nooo idea about my spouse or what my generalizations of 'anyone with a vagina' are.
> 
> And her post:
> 
> "My first thought was that I want someone completely different. I didn’t say that out loud because I was ashamed. I want to love someone, to laugh, to feel something… Oh gosh, I’m so screwed up "
> 
> In black and white. Read it.
> 
> You are actually projecting.
Click to expand...

She doesnt have a person in mind. She wants a mythical someone different from the man her husband is choosing to be.

She is not cheating nor planning to.

You are wrong. Period.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> no, the op is saying that she is f*cking tired of living with a horrible person and daydreams of having a life with a decent spouse. You don't have to be cheating to be thinking that. I daydream of my husband meeting an untoward end, to relieve most of my problems, but that doesn't mean i would ever actively want him dead.


 /\
|
|
|

This.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

personofinterest said:


> She doesnt have a person in mind. She wants a mythical someone different from the man her husband is choosing to be.
> 
> She is not cheating nor planning to.
> 
> You are wrong. Period.


Never accused her of cheating. You are projecting again. Just stating what she wrote in that she wants out of the marriage. Just repeating her own words that to stay in the marriage it would have to be someone else i.e. not him. If she thought he could ever ever be the person she wanted she would have stated so. She simply wants out and then she will go find someone else. 

I stand by what I am reading


----------



## turnera

I will say that often, when a woman has been broken down by a negative or controlling husband - and especially if she's gained a lot of weight (we women often just assume we're ugly if we're overweight because of society) - if we suddenly change our weight and start getting noticed, there is a visible shift in our mental process that says 'you know what? maybe you ARE worthwhile or desirable; maybe you DO have a chance at finding a new partner some day.' Whereas before, we may just believe what the spouse tells us, that we're ugly and nobody would ever pick us so we should be grateful THEY are keeping us. Happens more than you think.


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## personofinterest

turnera said:


> I will say that often, when a woman has been broken down by a negative or controlling husband - and especially if she's gained a lot of weight (we women often just assume we're ugly if we're overweight because of society) - if we suddenly change our weight and start getting noticed, there is a visible shift in our mental process that says 'you know what? maybe you ARE worthwhile or desirable; maybe you DO have a chance at finding a new partner some day.' Whereas before, we may just believe what the spouse tells us, that we're ugly and nobody would ever pick us so we should be grateful THEY are keeping us. Happens more than you think.


And we realize....maybe it wasn't me all these years. Maybe HE is a jerk!

I was thin when I married, then inched up around 30 pounds, then lost weight, and my ex didn't comment, so I don't have a projection dog in this fight. BUT I have seen it with other things. And I have seen this in a variety of women (and men). When you hate yourself, you think you deserve the crap treatment you get from your spouse. If you eventually start loving yourself....you start to see you spouse for who they really were all that time.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Never accused her of cheating. You are projecting again. Just stating what she wrote in that she wants out of the marriage. Just repeating her own words that to stay in the marriage it would have to be someone else i.e. not him. If she thought he could ever ever be the person she wanted she would have stated so. She simply wants out and then she will go find someone else.
> 
> I stand by what I am reading


Assuming you are right, which you aren't, so what? What would be wrong with wanting to be loved? Just a distraction to make her feel guilty.


----------



## xMadame

I am a bigger girl and have dated some of the most gorgeous and sexy men there are. 
As long as you love yourself, a genuine person wont care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## personofinterest

xMadame said:


> I am a bigger girl and have dated some of the most gorgeous and sexy men there are.
> As long as you love yourself, a genuine person wont care.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yeah, I had more success dating curvy or than I did when I was young and a perfect size 4 or 6. And we aren't talking the left over guys either. I am talking highly successful and handsome men. Not everybody likes the little boy figure lol.


----------



## lifeistooshort

BD, my life view is that people tend to show you who they are when they either think you're not looking or there are no consequences. At least consequence large enough to impact them. 

My ex, when I left him, actually told me that he thought we were in this "come hell or high water".

What that really meant was that he didn't think it mattered how he treated me because he didn't think I'd go anywhere. 

You've seen who he is. Like SSGI put it he's running scared now, but you're always going to have to be in a position of power to keep him from being nasty. You can't show him vulnerability because he abuses that. 

Because that's who he is.

It's up to you to decide if you can live with him knowing you can't be vulnerable.


----------



## bluedolphin

The eternal battle between the brain and the heart... 
Last weekend I made a conscious decision to work on the marriage. Well, it doesn't work that way... I feel like I'm in one of those video games where you go up step by step and then you fall hard and hit the ground...

We had a very tense MC session. The counsellor told us to try not to be physical in any way for 2 weeks ( no kissing, no touching, nothing). My husband was on the fence on this. He said it's not like we are having any contact now. The therapist was trying to take the pressure off me , as my H is expecting me to make the first step and initiate. So the MC wants 2 weeks with no physical contact on both sides.

After 30 min of back and forth between them, with me almost a spectator, the MC told my H that most couples in our situation are getting a divorce and that he needs to trust him and try harder.

This is coming after my H had an individual session with him. From his reaction, I understand that my H was told not to initiate anything with me and he did not respect that last week. So the MC is a bit frustrated...





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yes, drawing a line in the sand, and refusing to be taken for granted is key.
> 
> *You do have to decide; if he turns around, do you still want to be married to him? If not everything else is moot.*
> 
> If he's real old school he may have fallen into the trap that as long as he's providing well for the family he's doing good. Which is only partially true in this day and age.



Right now, the answer to the bolded question above is no. But I am going to follow your advices and not take any rash decisions... for now.


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## 3Xnocharm

Well, at least this way if it still doesn't work for you, you can say that you gave it every effort. I'm sure the no contact isn't too hard for you at this point.


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## turnera

I'm glad the MC is holding him accountable. I've learned a lot about therapy over the years and the one thing that's constant through probably 80% of all cases - men don't want to participate and usually won't do the work.


----------



## Decorum

This is one of the very few times I think a separation could be helpful.

With absolutely no contact with opposite sex people or friends socially as you work through this.


----------



## bluedolphin

It’s been a while since I wrote an update. My heart is so heavy. I can’t seem to get my head together.

We stopped going to counselling ( my H refuses to go). There is no point anyway, he blatantly refuses to follow any suggestions from the MC. He keeps saying that he loves me, he wants me and can’t live without me. He cannot give me space , like the MC advised him, he cannot “ignore” me. He continues to try to have physical contact with me, always trying to touch, kiss and massage me. I got to a point that my skin crawls when I feel him getting close to me. It’s such a physical reaction, I feel I am holding my breath and wait for the danger to pass. I think it’s very selfish of him not to listen to my request for space. The MC said he is shooting himself in the leg by doing all this.


I moved to the basement for a few weeks, then moved back to the bedroom, I really tried to let him get close to me, but I simply can’t . I am dead inside. I told him I don’t love him anymore and since then he is even more caring and loving. 

But when the bubble bursts and we get into a fight, the old him is back. Same controlling , passive aggressive behavior, still cornering me and asking for explanations for every little thing. He is extremely bothered by the fact that I go to the gym ( I changed my trainer from a male to a female, I thought this might help, but it didn’t). He is starting to get jealous and this is a new side of him I’ve never seen before. 

He tells me he loves me and that I’m beautiful every freaking minute. I told him he is suffocating me, he still does it. And he says this in front of the kids and they look at me expecting me to say it back, especially the older one, who is aware of the problems we have.

After Christmas, I will suggest a separation. I cannot live like this. Hopefully he will be open to a discussion on this. I am just afraid he will turn the kids against me. That’s my main worry.


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## turnera

He doesn't have to be open to it, hon. You leaving him doesn't require him agreeing, ok? He can try to turn them against you, but they are going to have two separate parents, in two separate homes, modeling two very different 'personalities.' Trust me, they'll get it; they'll know the truth. They'll know who is safe.


----------



## SunCMars

bluedolphin said:


> It’s been a while since I wrote an update. My heart is so heavy. I can’t seem to get my head together.
> 
> We stopped going to counselling ( my H refuses to go). There is no point anyway, he blatantly refuses to follow any suggestions from the MC. He keeps saying that he loves me, he wants me and can’t live without me. He cannot give me space , like the MC advised him, he cannot “ignore” me. He continues to try to have physical contact with me, always trying to touch, kiss and massage me. I got to a point that my skin crawls when I feel him getting close to me. It’s such a physical reaction, I feel I am holding my breath and wait for the danger to pass. I think it’s very selfish of him not to listen to my request for space. The MC said he is shooting himself in the leg by doing all this.
> 
> 
> I moved to the basement for a few weeks, then moved back to the bedroom, I really tried to let him get close to me, but I simply can’t . I am dead inside. I told him I don’t love him anymore and since then he is even more caring and loving.
> 
> But when the bubble bursts and we get into a fight, the old him is back. Same controlling , passive aggressive behavior, still cornering me and asking for explanations for every little thing. He is extremely bothered by the fact that I go to the gym ( I changed my trainer from a male to a female, I thought this might help, but it didn’t). He is starting to get jealous and this is a new side of him I’ve never seen before.
> 
> He tells me he loves me and that I’m beautiful every freaking minute. I told him he is suffocating me, he still does it. And he says this in front of the kids and they look at me expecting me to say it back, especially the older one, who is aware of the problems we have.
> 
> After Christmas, I will suggest a separation. I cannot live like this. Hopefully he will be open to a discussion on this. I am just afraid he will turn the kids against me. That’s my main worry.


On this feeling.....

These feelings are cyclic, they come at various times in our short lives.

The earlier cycles seemed to be easier to ignore.

With all the activities, the responsibilities, actions could be put off.
We are more resilient when young.

As we age, the love indeed falls away. 

Normally, from outside forces, forces you do not see nor believe. 

Yes, the outside force could be from your significant other.
That person is the one going through cycles, he, in turn, affecting your thoughts and ideas.

There are no eyes to view this, no senses available to feel the separating influences that you are experiencing.
They are felt subjectively. 
Initially, mainly emotionally, later intellectually.

By the way.....

*TAM is one such outside influence. You were drawn or led to this blog for a reason.
Reasons not understood. I understand the reasons, cannot escape them anymore than anyone can.
*

When normal cycles cannot force your hand they [external forces] get a lot more sophisticated.

They first throw ideas up that you never thought about. The ideas are meant to break your resolve.
Change your viewpoint.

At some point it may be a person of the opposite gender that adds to your changing ideas about life.
Or close relatives, or friends, or coworkers, etal.

You see........

At these junctures, these curve points in time, you are approached when you are at your most vulnerable.

This whole notion that we are alone.....is so wrong
There is a plan for most of us. 

We live in a fishbowl, with some others swimming with us, some peering through the glass, some tapping on the side to get your attention.
Maybe to get you to swim a different course.

Our electronics are our new distraction, a new way for outside forces to get you to change course, to get you to jump through hoops.
To get you to set yourself on fire.

Some skate through life never really tempted, others are tempted often, often during those pesky cycles.

I know this notion is a hard one to accept.
Most think of this as really odd talk, if not something more akin to...........

Of course, that is how life is perceived. We live our lives free, with seemingly, no outside intervention, noted.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Oh my lord that post gave me anxiety! I feel out of breath... I know EXACTLY what you're feeling! DO NOT ASK for a separation, just make a plan and do it. You don't need his permission for shytt. Have faith in your kids to be able to see around any manipulation that he may throw their way, kids are smarter than people give them credit for. Stop allowing him to screw with your head, he will do if for as long as you let him. YOU NEED to get away from this man and end this finally. 

I am glad you came back to update.


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## Rob_1

You are just keeping yourself in agony, and prolonging it out of lack of courage/indecision.

You are making a big mistake by trying to get your husband's input on a separation. Don't do that, just tell him you made the decision to separate and that's that. Why prolong the inevitable?

And why tell him you want a separation? What do you plan to achieve with that? 

You don't love him anymore, so just tell him you are divorcing period; why go on and on, and on?


----------



## Tomara

You are hanging on but that rope you have a hold of doesn’t have a knot at the end of it. It’s missing for a reason. 

Believe in yourself. Don’t ask from your husband as he doesn’t respect you. Start respecting the strong woman that you are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tron

Separation sounds like a good idea.

What do you think the terms should be? Who is leaving the house and kids behind?


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## OnTheFly

Point him to redpill, he needs to lose the one-itis fast.


----------



## bluedolphin

Rob_1 said:


> *You are just keeping yourself in agony, and prolonging it out of lack of courage/indecision.
> *


This is very true. I feel like a coward for not taking a decision. To be honest, I am afraid of being alone. I've been with him since I was 15, I don't even know how to not be in a couple. Not sure if this makes sense. Maybe it's just weakness or fear, but this is how I feel. I do consider myself a strong woman, I went through a lot and I am keeping this family afloat for so many years, but maybe I am not as strong as I think I am.

It's not that I need a man , I am quite independent, I like my alone time, but when you are used to something for 25 years , it's hard to cut the cord. Every time I say " That's it, I'm done", I keep thinking that overall, he is a good guy that loves me and the kids. A friend told me that I will never find someone to love me as much as my H does. I hope I will find someone because after so many years of not feeling anything, I do want to find someone to love.

And another thing that scares me it's how he is going to cope with a separation. I do care about him, I want him to be ok. I know the beginning will be rough, but in the long run, I want us to be on good terms and for him to find some peace.

On top of all this, my older son is 100% behind his dad. They had a discussion about a month ago , I found out a few days ago. My H told him about the MC, the fact that I can't let go of the past, of what he said to me along the years and that he is doing everything now to keep the family together. Now my son is pressuring me to "forgive " him and go on with our lives. I had to tell him how I feel and we had an hour long discussion on this. My son is so much like his dad, it scares me. He did understand my point of view but he told me his little brother deserves the same chance he had in life: to have 2 parents to raise him. I was heartbroken when I heard that. He wants us together at any price.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bluedolphin said:


> This is very true. I feel like a coward for not taking a decision. To be honest, I am afraid of being alone. I've been with him since I was 15, I don't even know how to not be in a couple. Not sure if this makes sense. Maybe it's just weakness or fear, but this is how I feel. I do consider myself a strong woman, I went through a lot and I am keeping this family afloat for so many years, but maybe I am not as strong as I think I am.


You are NOT a coward. Making a big change is scary. But I can tell you this... being on your own beats the hell WAY out of staying with someone you are unhappy with and who doesn't respect you. 




bluedolphin said:


> It's not that I need a man , I am quite independent, I like my alone time, but when you are used to something for 25 years , it's hard to cut the cord. Every time I say " That's it, I'm done", I keep thinking that overall, he is a good guy that loves me and the kids. A friend told me that I will never find someone to love me as much as my H does. I hope I will find someone because after so many years of not feeling anything, I do want to find someone to love.


This "friend" is not a friend. A friend would support you. I would suggest you cut this person out of your circle.



bluedolphin said:


> And another thing that scares me it's how he is going to cope with a separation. I do care about him, I want him to be ok. I know the beginning will be rough, but in the long run, I want us to be on good terms and for him to find some peace.


Not your problem. You wouldn't even be in this position had he been a good, loving, supportive partner to you, so he can lie in the bed he made. He is a grown man and must be responsible for himself. 



bluedolphin said:


> On top of all this, my older son is 100% behind his dad. They had a discussion about a month ago , I found out a few days ago. My H told him about the MC, the fact that I can't let go of the past, of what he said to me along the years and that he is doing everything now to keep the family together. Now my son is pressuring me to "forgive " him and go on with our lives. I had to tell him how I feel and we had an hour long discussion on this. My son is so much like his dad, it scares me. He did understand my point of view but he told me his little brother deserves the same chance he had in life: to have 2 parents to raise him. I was heartbroken when I heard that. He wants us together at any price.


YOU are the parent here, and YOU know what is best. Shame on him for trying to guilt you this way about your other son. Are you really willing to live like this because your son says so?? You may have to deal with him detaching for a while if this is the kind of mind game your H is playing with him... again, YOU are the parent, and if that means he acts like a pouty, insolent child for a time because he didn't get his way, so be it. Being older he should have more respect for you and want you to be happy, like you do for him. 

Can you picture living with this creeped out revulsion, and his disrespect, for the next 10, 20 or more years of your life??


----------



## bluedolphin

OnTheFly said:


> Point him to redpill, he needs to lose the one-itis fast.


 
:lol:


----------



## bluedolphin

Tron said:


> Separation sounds like a good idea.
> 
> What do you think the terms should be? Who is leaving the house and kids behind?


He will leave. He asked me a few weeks ago if I want him to leave, so I assume he is OK with the idea. I was too weak to say yes then.


----------



## turnera

bluedolphin said:


> This is very true. I feel like a coward for not taking a decision. To be honest, I am afraid of being alone. I've been with him since I was 15, I don't even know how to not be in a couple


Women don't need men anymore. My mom kicked my dad out when he cheated; when he came crawling back, she told him to pound sand. She spent the next 45 years alone and she LOVED it. Doing whatever she wanted, not having to make sure some man was happy, going where she wanted, not having to compromise, not being told what she wanted was silly or wrong...there's a lot to be said for single.

But you're a good person and you're going to find another partner. Hopefully many years from now, after you've learned to be psychologically independent.



> And another thing that scares me it's how he is going to cope with a separation. I do care about him, I want him to be ok.


That is classic codependency, which makes sense since you've never been an adult without him. Please read the book Codependent No More. It will explain everything.



> On top of all this, my older son is 100% behind his dad. They had a discussion about a month ago , I found out a few days ago. My H told him about the MC, the fact that I can't let go of the past, of what he said to me along the years and that he is doing everything now to keep the family together. Now my son is pressuring me to "forgive " him and go on with our lives. I had to tell him how I feel and we had an hour long discussion on this. My son is so much like his dad, it scares me. He did understand my point of view but he told me his little brother deserves the same chance he had in life: to have 2 parents to raise him. I was heartbroken when I heard that. He wants us together at any price.


THEY had a discussion? Your son and the abusive controlling, selfish man who refuses to even consider your needs let alone take care of them? Gee, I wonder what your wonderful husband said about you to him? Lemme guess - he said your mom is an angel and I'm an ogre and you should listen to her and take care of her cos she deserves it? 

Get real. He told his son your mom is selfish and mean and she's hurting me, you don't want me to hurt, do you son? You need to help me keep your mom from being selfish and mean; we need to work together, to get her to stay so I won't hurt.

Hon, who is the adult? You are. Not your son. You never learned how to be a complete grownup because your H has always been there undermining you. So even with your kids, you don't know how to be the adult. Healthy adults will know that THEY will make the decisions that are best for the kids, even if the kids think they don't want it.

Your kids are growing up in a dysfunctional home and they don't even KNOW what healthy is. Once they are living even part time in your new home, without this abusive man, they're going to experience a whole new world of happiness, lack of fear and self-doubt that they never knew they were missing. And before you say it, yes, your kids were being hurt, too. You're too close to see it. Abuse trickles down to the kids in a million ways, even if they aren't the target.

You're doing the right thing leaving him. You just are. You may not be able to see it, being in the trenches. But a year from now? You will be SO glad you made this step. For you AND for your sons.


----------



## Rob_1

@bluedolphin: Courage & Strength. Keep looking ahead.


----------



## bluedolphin

Rob_1 said:


> @bluedolphin: Courage & Strength. Keep looking ahead.


Thank you... 
I have a hard year ahead with a few major surgeries. But even that it's not worth staying. He was talking about taking time off to take care of me and all I was thinking was " That won't be necessary. We won't be together ".

And all this Christmas music in the stores ... It's going to be the last Christmas with all four of us in the same house.

Yes, keep looking ahead seems like a good advice...


----------



## jsmart

Wow, It seems like some of you are so worked up with projecting the past jerks in your lives, that you hope to vicariously strike it to evil jerks everywhere, through the ashes of this women's family. I guess, it jives with over 70 % of divorces being initiated by women.

Do any of you divorce cheerleaders ever wonder what the husband's side of the story would be? Do you not think there's any marital revisionism taking place?

Was her husband a douche? It sounds like it, but even she said that her husband was mostly OK for about 20 years of their relationship. What has changed? Has her husband become more controlling than he was in the prior 20 years? Has he stopped supporting his family or abusing his kids? 

The only thing that changed is that she's lost all this weight and is feeling empowered by her healthy fit body. The newly confident and probably hot looking @bluedolphin feels her husband is beneath her, hence why she's lost attraction for him. Unless her husband can re-attract her by upping his game across the board, he will soon be getting D papers, cheated on, or both.


----------



## turnera

Talk about projection.

I could go back through and cut and paste all the ways in which he has, and continues to, hurt her, but I'm not going to waste my time. It's clear to everyone here BUT you that this man is abusive and needs to go. Can he win her back? Maybe, IF he lives on his own with out her supporting him in a thousand ways, and he realizes just how much she did do for him, and he has a come to Jesus moment, and gets therapy, and spends a good 6 months to a year changing. Without that? Nope, no support from this member of the peanut gallery for him.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

jsmart said:


> Wow, It seems like some of you are so worked up with projecting the past jerks in your lives, that you hope to vicariously strike it to evil jerks everywhere, through the ashes of this women's family. I guess, it jives with over 70 % of divorces being initiated by women.
> 
> Do any of you divorce cheerleaders ever wonder what the husband's side of the story would be? Do you not think there's any marital revisionism taking place?
> 
> Was her husband a douche? It sounds like it, but even she said that her husband was mostly OK for about 20 years of their relationship. What has changed? Has her husband become more controlling than he was in the prior 20 years? Has he stopped supporting his family or abusing his kids?
> 
> The only thing that changed is that she's lost all this weight and is feeling empowered by her healthy fit body. The newly confident and probably hot looking @bluedolphin feels her husband is beneath her, hence why she's lost attraction for him. Unless her husband can re-attract her by upping his game across the board, he will soon be getting D papers, cheated on, or both.


Whoa, projection much?? He harassed her for years about her weight, then when she finally did something about it, he has harassed her for losing it! She thought it would make him happy and up his attraction to her, instead she has been punished for it ever since. He doesn't even respect her enough to honor her wish to stop touching her. 

Screw him.


----------



## personofinterest

OnTheFly said:


> Point him to redpill, he needs to lose the one-itis fast.


 I am almost afraid to ask what 1 itis is. Although using deductive reasoning I can probably figure it out. It probably has something to do with women being a dime-a-dozen blah blah blah


----------



## personofinterest

Jsmart, are you her husband lol


----------



## jsmart

personofinterest said:


> Jsmart, are you her husband lol


Ha. POI, you busted me.


----------



## bluedolphin

jsmart said:


> Wow, It seems like some of you are so worked up with projecting the past jerks in your lives, that you hope to vicariously strike it to evil jerks everywhere, through the ashes of this women's family. I guess, it jives with over 70 % of divorces being initiated by women.
> 
> Do any of you divorce cheerleaders ever wonder what the husband's side of the story would be? Do you not think there's any marital revisionism taking place?
> 
> Was her husband a douche? It sounds like it, but even she said that her husband was mostly OK for about 20 years of their relationship. What has changed? Has her husband become more controlling than he was in the prior 20 years? Has he stopped supporting his family or abusing his kids?
> 
> The only thing that changed is that she's lost all this weight and is feeling empowered by her healthy fit body. The newly confident and probably hot looking @bluedolphin feels her husband is beneath her, hence why she's lost attraction for him. Unless her husband can re-attract her by upping his game across the board, he will soon be getting D papers, cheated on, or both.




Although it’s nice to hear a different opinion on this, you are wrong on so many levels.
I will tell you his side of the story. He is not here to tell, but I’ve heard it 1000 times. When he was bullying me and verbally abusing me, he was just trying to make me understand that I need to lose weight. Like I didn’t know I was fat and he had to open my eyes. Yes, I was fat, but I don’t think I deserved that treatment. You don’t like it, leave.

No, he is not more controlling than before. But he still is. He never abused the kids , he is strict with them but not abusive.

And for the last part, I don’t feel empowered at all. And I don’t feel he is beneath me. I mentioned this before, he is an extremely attractive man, fit and handsome. I did lose the attraction, but everything comes from being emotionally checked out.

As for the cheating part, good luck to any man who will try to get close to me. Although friends and family , they all tell me I look amazing, I even had female coworkers saying that I am hot ( I was so embarrassed!) , I still see a size 20 woman when I look in the mirror, not a size 6 that I am now. I do notice men looking at me, I had a few trying to talk to me. But my self-esteem is so low that it will take a long time for someone to make me feel comfortable or wanted. Maybe it’s common after huge weight loss or maybe it’s a result of many years of being put down for my physical appearance . I don’t want someone else right now, I am not in the right mind set to even think about that and I think we already covered this issue in this thread.

The bottom line is that along the years I lost feelings for this man and I am not sure if he can make me get them back. He is not a jerk and he is really trying to change now , but deep down I feel it’s too late. 

I have never elaborated on the things that were said to me in the last 6 years. A part of my brain wants to forget about that and usually I remember bits and pieces, but not everything. My MC made me do an exercise and put everything on a piece of paper; it took me two whole weeks but I did it. It was emotionally draining but it helped me realize the extent of the problem we are facing now. I was called horrible names, always in the heat of a fight, I was told that the kids will be ashamed to walk with me on the street, that I will end up like those people on the “600 pound life” show if I am not careful with my “diet”. I was told that I shouldn’t wear heels at my weight or I should buy more age appropriate clothes ( although the selection for plus size people is limited). That I should wear more make-up or I shouldn’t send the kids to do something just because I wasn’t able to do it. I was trying to make them help around the house, it wasn’t that I couldn’t do it. Any pain or injury I had it would have been the direct result of my weight, up to a point that I stopped sharing any details about my health with him. 
One of the most hurtful things was when his mother was bullying me for my weight in front of him and the kids and I looked at him, with tears in my eyes waiting for some kind of support. All he did was to say ”Well, she is right!”

I am raising two boys who heard all this and believe me, I am scared. I am scared that they will think this is normal behavior, that its’ OK to treat a woman like this. My oldest son has a girlfriend and he was making a joke regarding her weight. I froze. I completely froze when I heard him. He apologized and I noticed he is very careful with what he says now. He is in love with her and loves the way she looks. They are both athletes and their fitness levels are insane, but she still feels insecure sometimes. I had long talks with him about this and I hope he understands where I am coming from.

I do feel guilty about leaving , but at this point, there is nothing left in me to give. Maybe down the road we can get back together, maybe not. But given the fact that he cannot give me any space, we need to be apart.

OMG, I wrote so much… sorry for this… rant over.


----------



## jsmart

Did your weight really bothered him that much or was he just a douchey guy? Could he be one of those difficult people that have poor social skills? Maybe in his mind, he thought as long as he was faithful husband and decent father, he was doing enough. Being callous about your weight wasn't seen as important. 

I've met clueless people like that. They're not very likable but you've been together for 25 years. I can't believe it was all bad.


----------



## BluesPower

jsmart said:


> Did your weight really bothered him that much or was he just a douchey guy? Could he be one of those difficult people that have poor social skills? Maybe in his mind, he thought as long as he was faithful husband and decent father, he was doing enough. Being callous about your weight wasn't seen as important.
> 
> I've met clueless people like that. They're not very likable but you've been together for 25 years. I can't believe it was all bad.


I really don't know your story so I am not going to judge. I don't know what someone did to you, or if how you feel is valid. 

But from the start, I really feel she has been honest and frankly overly nice to her H. 

You and everyone knows that past some point in the sand, people get to the DONE point. It could be verbal abuse, it could be a ton of things. 

She knows that she should not have stayed for 25 years, but a lot of us stayed in marriages that were not good. 

And from her last post, you can see that her husband was abusive about her weight. If it bothered him that much, he should have divorced her, not belittled her. 

I for one whole heartedly support her decision to leave, and file for divorce. 

When someone get to the done point, valid or not valid, they are usually done. 

Maybe he can save this, but I really doubt that he had the internal fortitude...


----------



## FieryHairedLady

BD I am sorry he made you feel so horribly.

People don't always remember what a person said to them, but they always remember how they made them feel.

HUGS


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

bluedolphin said:


> After Christmas, I will suggest a separation. I cannot live like this. Hopefully he will be open to a discussion on this. I am just afraid he will turn the kids against me. That’s my main worry.


Smartest decision ever. As I said in my first post, he's an abusive jerk. 

I think what you *don't *realize is, it's not your weight loss that has made you more sensitive or touchy and more irritated with him. It's the *loss of love and respect *you're experiencing from YEARS of his friggen verbal and emotional abuse! Someone can only take that for so long before they finally reach their limit, and YOU simply reached your limit. Once you get to that point, you have a whole lot LESS patience for their abusive bull**** and you find yourself calling them out on it and not just silently taking it anymore. You've simply made it to that point, is all.

Look, he can bring you flowers and beg and plead and proclaim his undying love while crying those big crocodile tears all he wants, but the truth is, he's crying for HIMSELF. He just doesn't want to be divorced and lose half his assets, and not have his mommy (a/k/a YOU) around to do everything but chew his food for him and tell him when to change his underwear. He has absolutely NO remorse whatsoever for the years of hell he put you through. He's merely crying for himself and what HE stands to lose because of his abusive behavior.

And the worst part is, if you were still overweight to this day, he'd STILL be abusing you. Because *that's who he is*. His abuse had NOTHING to do with 'trying to help you lose weight' and everything to do with having no respect for you at all and letting you know exactly how unhappy he was with your weight. Do you tell a child they're retarded and incapable of learning when they can't grasp geometry because you think you're 'helping' them? This guy is such a damned liar. He said it because it's how he felt and he took pleasure in hurting you. Period.



> Was her husband a douche? It sounds like it, but even she said that her husband was mostly OK for about 20 years of their relationship. What has changed? Has her husband become more controlling than he was in the prior 20 years? Has he stopped supporting his family or abusing his kids?


What's changed is that the OP has finally opened her eyes to this guy's abuse. Throughout this thread she's defended the guy to an extent - because a lot of abused women *do* that and because she still wanted to be with him so that's what you DO, you pretend it's really not so bad that it can't be fixed. I think the OP has simply finally opened her eyes to who this guy really IS, not who she wanted him to be.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

bluedolphin said:


> On top of all this, my older son is 100% behind his dad. They had a discussion about a month ago , I found out a few days ago. My H told him about the MC, the fact that I can't let go of the past, of what he said to me along the years and that he is doing everything now to keep the family together. Now my son is pressuring me to "forgive " him and go on with our lives. I had to tell him how I feel and we had an hour long discussion on this. My son is so much like his dad, it scares me. He did understand my point of view but he told me his little brother deserves the same chance he had in life: to have 2 parents to raise him. I was heartbroken when I heard that. He wants us together at any price.


And yet another reason I call this guy a jerk. Because he IS a damned jerk.

Using his kids as pawns in his little battle is emotionally abusive to his children!!!! 

The smartest decision you will *EVER* make is leaving this ass-hole.


----------



## turnera

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What's changed is that the OP has finally opened her eyes to this guy's abuse. Throughout this thread she's defended the guy to an extent - because a lot of abused women *do* that and because she still wanted to be with him so that's what you DO, you pretend it's really not so bad that it can't be fixed. I think the OP has simply finally opened her eyes to who this guy really IS, not who she wanted him to be.


I've been married 40 years. My husband never hurt me, rarely raised his voice, but our entire marriage was based on him guilting me, judging me, controlling me, and expecting me to do things his way. I spent the first 10 years happy but struggling to keep up with all the expectations; the next 10 years feeling put out but not understanding why; the next 10 years depressed and not knowing why; and the past 10 years figuring out that his actions WERE abusive (I'd denied it through and through cos he's a nice guy, decent, honest, dedicated), and that I needed to do something about it. I, too, would have said I was happy in my marriage - I simply didn't know any better. It wasn't until I (1) fell out of love, for good, from the nonstop control and judgment and (2) learned that I had the right AND the power to say no, make changes, and take care of myself that I realized just how unhappy I was, and why.

So don't go saying things like, 'well, she stayed, didn't she? It couldn't have been all that bad.' Well, you could say that about me, too - and I've had my episodes running from my house with a knife in my hand, out of hope. But if you do any research about abuse victims, you'll see they all have ONE thing in common - it's hard for them to leave. The very nature of the abuse practically ensures it. And that's the purpose of all the abuse: to make the partner fear leaving.


----------



## Zodiac

bluedolphin said:


> No, he is not more controlling than before. But he still is. He never abused the kids , he is strict with them but not abusive.
> 
> And for the last part, I don’t feel empowered at all. And I don’t feel he is beneath me. I mentioned this before, he is an extremely attractive man, fit and handsome. I did lose the attraction, but everything comes from being emotionally checked out.
> 
> As for the cheating part, good luck to any man who will try to get close to me. Although friends and family , they all tell me I look amazing, I even had female coworkers saying that I am hot ( I was so embarrassed!) , I still see a size 20 woman when I look in the mirror, not a size 6 that I am now. I do notice men looking at me, I had a few trying to talk to me. But my self-esteem is so low that it will take a long time for someone to make me feel comfortable or wanted. Maybe it’s common after huge weight loss or maybe it’s a result of many years of being put down for my physical appearance . I don’t want someone else right now, I am not in the right mind set to even think about that and I think we already covered this issue in this thread.
> 
> The bottom line is that along the years I lost feelings for this man and I am not sure if he can make me get them back. He is not a jerk and he is really trying to change now , but deep down I feel it’s too late.
> 
> I have never elaborated on the things that were said to me in the last 6 years. A part of my brain wants to forget about that and usually I remember bits and pieces, but not everything. My MC made me do an exercise and put everything on a piece of paper; it took me two whole weeks but I did it. It was emotionally draining but it helped me realize the extent of the problem we are facing now. I was called horrible names, always in the heat of a fight, I was told that the kids will be ashamed to walk with me on the street, that I will end up like those people on the “600 pound life” show if I am not careful with my “diet”. I was told that I shouldn’t wear heels at my weight or I should buy more age appropriate clothes ( although the selection for plus size people is limited). That I should wear more make-up or I shouldn’t send the kids to do something just because I wasn’t able to do it. I was trying to make them help around the house, it wasn’t that I couldn’t do it. Any pain or injury I had it would have been the direct result of my weight, up to a point that I stopped sharing any details about my health with him.
> One of the most hurtful things was when his mother was bullying me for my weight in front of him and the kids and I looked at him, with tears in my eyes waiting for some kind of support. All he did was to say ”Well, she is right!”
> 
> I am raising two boys who heard all this and believe me, I am scared. I am scared that they will think this is normal behavior, that its’ OK to treat a woman like this. My oldest son has a girlfriend and he was making a joke regarding her weight. I froze. I completely froze when I heard him. He apologized and I noticed he is very careful with what he says now. He is in love with her and loves the way she looks. They are both athletes and their fitness levels are insane, but she still feels insecure sometimes. I had long talks with him about this and I hope he understands where I am coming from.
> 
> I do feel guilty about leaving , but at this point, there is nothing left in me to give. Maybe down the road we can get back together, maybe not. But given the fact that he cannot give me any space, we need to be apart.
> 
> OMG, I wrote so much… sorry for this… rant over.


DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR EXPRESSING YOUR FEELINGS. I'm a man who was with a woman that fits into your husbands caliber. A brick house Latina. Even after she treated me like garbage i always heard, but shes so PRETTY from other women. I'm like this women doesn't listen to me, will yell at me instead of talking, has hit me, will use emotion and affection as a weapon, gas lighting, will threaten to cut herself if she has to reflect on her ****ty behavior and just ****ing moved out one day with no conversation or notice and your response is she is SOOOOO pretty. (13 years)

Stay strong you deserve to be happy. You're not the only one as other people have mentioned. There are even men out there who understand how to deal with a women who has been abused, and will love you. They will not see a weak broken person. They will see someone so strong she chose to try and keep her family together until it was either her soul or him. We men are just ALOT less likely to talk about how words broke us and not sticks and stones.

FYI your husband is probably on the NARC scale.


----------



## manfromlamancha

If you are through with your husband then you should 

be honest with him;
be fair;
divorce him and leave;
be faithful until the divorce is through.


Here is what you should not do:

lie and lead him on;
respond to attention from other men;
have an affair or cheat in any way;
spend any more money on boob enhancements etc until the divorce is through.


Simple enough?


----------



## Thound

My wife always says she is fat, and I would always say she looks great, and even if I did think she was fat, I would still be madly in love with her. Guess what? She still went thru the same thing. We nearly divorced. I begged and coerced her to stay married. That was the biggest mistake in my life.


----------



## bluedolphin

Just an update… We finally had "the talk" on Saturday… I know, I let this drag for way too long.
Anyway, it didn’t go well. I felt like a babbling 7 year old who cannot articulate her thoughts. When I talk to my sister or my best friend, I have everything very clear in my head. But when he started talking, I lost all my verbal capacities. Recovered at the end of the discussion, found my voice a little bit, but I’m still so disappointed in me and how I handled myself.
At the beginning , I was afraid of hurting him too much. And then he started being very vocal and in my face, he even started swearing which he usually doesn’t . I was numb. He cannot understand how come the last 6 months were not enough for me to get over all this “****” and get back to where we were. He said he loves me and he will fight to keep the family together. And accused me of not making an effort to get closer to him, to be more loving.

I told him that I don’t love him anymore and although maybe there is still a small hope that we will find our way back together, for now we need to separate. He was fuming…It was a 2 hour discussion, I’m not going into too much detail, but the conclusion was that he will sleep in the basement and we will decide how and when to tell the kids. This was at midnight. He came back to the bedroom at 4am , got into the bed and fell asleep. In the morning he was slamming doors and not talking to me . Then at noon he brought me flowers and told me he loved me ( in front of my older son, again )

I can tell he is a mess. He is desperate. But there were two things that kind of got me to the breaking point. First was the fact that with all the discussions we had, he continues to be or try to be physical with me. I was waking up middle of the night with his hands under my t-shirt, him massaging me all the time, trying to kiss me. It was creeping me out. Secondly, it was a comment he made about me that set me off. I was talking to my son about my gym routine and he was giving me some tips. My husband got into the discussion and asked me if now I want to put on muscle. I said yes. He said women don’t look good with muscle. After so many years of hearing comments about my appearance, I just lost my temper. I realized it’s just his way of trying to control me and my mind. I just had enough. Something snapped inside me and in that moment I was DONE. I know I might be very sensitive about these type of comments, but this is me now and I can’t help it. I go to the gym every evening, after the kids go to sleep and the results are showing. And I am proud of it, I work hard and I am not going to let him ruin this for me. 

Now, I am starting to plan my financial exit, also I need to talk to the therapist about how to approach the kids. I have a sports psychologist lined up for my older son, in case he needs it. 
I know it’s going to be a long process, but I am ready. 

Tonight I'm moving to the basement… for good this time.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Good for you! And you SHOULD be proud of your progress, shame on him for always having to get in a dig at you. 

You've realized that this is what you need to do, so hold strong. It would have been ideal to get your plan in place first, then reveal to him, but I get it that you finally had that SNAP moment.. that click...so you didnt really have things ready to go. Ive been there, I have had that click. No matter how he comes at you, you need to stand your ground, because otherwise, you have to start this whole damn thing all over again. 

Have you consulted an attorney so you know what your rights are?


----------



## turnera

I'm really proud of you. Make sure you get a lock on that room in the basement. When he goes too long without sex, he may worsen his attitude. And understand that the way he's acting is completely normal. I've seen it over and over. Get mad. Bring flowers. Say he gets it. Gets mad. Guilts. Makes NO effort to look at himself. This isn't on you. You've given him way more than enough chances.


----------



## MattMatt

@bluedolphin I just tidied up your thread.

If you get any more harassment, please do use the report icon on the left side of the screen.


----------



## AVR1962

Good for you! What you can expect at this point is the cold shoulder and lots of retaliation. Rather than seeing how he hurt you and what he needs to work on, he will see you hurting him and because of that he will likely become vindictive. Do not fall to please him or try to right things to keep peace. One step at a time, one day at a time. He is responsible for his actions, not you. Ignore his tantrums.


----------



## bluedolphin

MattMatt said:


> @bluedolphin I just tidied up your thread.
> 
> If you get any more harassment, please do use the report icon on the left side of the screen.



@MattMatt Thank you! I wish I could have missed those posts... messed up with my head. I understand people have different opinions, but that was just mean.


----------



## MattMatt

bluedolphin said:


> @MattMatt Thank you! I wish I could have missed those posts... messed up with my head. I understand people have different opinions, but that was just mean.


Which was why he was banned.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blue, you might consider that even though the abusive poster was banned (and rightly so) his posts may give some insight into how your hb thinks. 

That is the mentality you're dealing with. Your hb is an abuser and is used to this dynamic with you. At this point he doesn't know how else to interact with you and is going to ramp up the abuse in the hopes that you back down like you a always have.

Because he has a lot of years of this tactic working. 

He probably even loves you...but abusers who kill their victims often love them. Love isn't enough. 

He's confirming who he is..... and that is someone who bullys, abuses, uses his kids to manipulate, and pushes himself on you. He's scared that his life is going to turn upside down, but everything he does is for himself. You don't factor in. 

My ex was the same. I told him I wanted a divorce and he proceeded to ignore me, try to kiss me, and invite me to bed.....because we had a history of him simply ignoring things that made him uncomfortable. And I played into that dynamic. 

Go grey rock on him and plot your escape. He is who he is. 

And you know what? All of the compassion you have for him where you feel terrible that he hurts....that compassion is not returned. I dealt with the same thing....I felt horrible that my ex was hurting but my hurt was never an issue for him.


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## personofinterest

lifeistooshort said:


> Blue, you might consider that even though the abusive poster was banned (and rightly so) his posts may give some insight into how your hb thinks.
> 
> That is the mentality you're dealing with. Your hb is an abuser and is used to this dynamic with you. At this point he doesn't know how else to interact with you and is going to ramp up the abuse in the hopes that you back down like you a always have.
> 
> Because he has a lot of years of this tactic working.
> 
> He probably even loves you...but abusers who kill their victims often love them. Love isn't enough.
> 
> He's confirming who he is..... and that is someone who bullys, abuses, uses his kids to manipulate, and pushes himself on you. He's scared that his life is going to turn upside down, but everything he does is for himself. You don't factor in.
> 
> My ex was the same. I told him I wanted a divorce and he proceeded to ignore me, try to kiss me, and invite me to bed.....because we had a history of him simply ignoring things that made him uncomfortable. And I played into that dynamic.
> 
> Go grey rock on him and plot your escape. He is who he is.
> 
> And you know what? All of the compassion you have for him where you feel terrible that he hurts....that compassion is not returned. I dealt with the same thing....I felt horrible that my ex was hurting but my hurt was never an issue for him.



THIS. Unfortunately the internet is a place that draws in abusive people because of the supposed anonymity. 

The above is great advice. It is time to be good to YOURSELF. I am proud of your strength in making this decision.


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## turnera

And keep in mind that the best thing you can do for your husband is to leave him. He will never have a reason to look at himself and become a better person if you stay.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Back in the beginning of this thread, I stated that his sudden 'good guy' act was* just* that - an act - and to check back with us in 3 or 4 months because he wouldn't be able to keep up the phony dog and pony show forever, and here you are.

This isn't an "I told you so." I'm pointing out that most people really don't change who they are at their core. And the older a person gets, the less ability they really have to do a complete 180 in their behavior. He's been abusive to you for years and that's really just who he is. That's not going to change. His 'nice guy' routine wasn't a change in behavior - it was simply an *act *in the hopes of getting what he wanted. 

He sounds like a desperate child whose afraid of losing his mommy. I would imagine you've been the one to pretty much run the household and tell him when to come in out of the rain. He doesn't KNOW any other life than the one where you provide all his creature comforts for him, keep the family in order, and make sure he's centered and doing what he's supposed to do. So he's going to fight tooth and nail to hold onto that. Actually, he almost sounds codependent to me, the way he's constantly pawing at you and clinging to you like a frightened child. Yuck. Not very appealing.

As long as you 'live' in the basement, you're still going to be dealing with him clinging to you like grim death and either verbally abusing you or acting as though you're the best thing since sliced bread. You never know what you're going to get from this lunatic, do you?

I really hope you get your ducks in a row *quickly* so you can finally get OUT of that hell house.


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## Isshecheating

3Xnocharm said:


> jsmart said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, It seems like some of you are so worked up with projecting the past jerks in your lives, that you hope to vicariously strike it to evil jerks everywhere, through the ashes of this women's family. I guess, it jives with over 70 % of divorces being initiated by women.
> 
> Do any of you divorce cheerleaders ever wonder what the husband's side of the story would be? Do you not think there's any marital revisionism taking place?
> 
> Was her husband a douche? It sounds like it, but even she said that her husband was mostly OK for about 20 years of their relationship. What has changed? Has her husband become more controlling than he was in the prior 20 years? Has he stopped supporting his family or abusing his kids?
> 
> The only thing that changed is that she's lost all this weight and is feeling empowered by her healthy fit body. The newly confident and probably hot looking @bluedolphin feels her husband is beneath her, hence why she's lost attraction for him. Unless her husband can re-attract her by upping his game across the board, he will soon be getting D papers, cheated on, or both.
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa, projection much?? He harassed her for years about her weight, then when she finally did something about it, he has harassed her for losing it! She thought it would make him happy and up his attraction to her, instead she has been punished for it ever since. He doesn't even respect her enough to honor her wish to stop touching her.
> 
> Screw him.
Click to expand...

Double post.


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## Isshecheating

bluedolphin said:


> Thank you all for your replies.
> My computer froze while trying to post, so here I go again.
> Trying to answer some of your questions:
> -my older one is almost 16, he will be driving soon, so we will have more free time. He is travelling all around the world competing, so it’s been stressful. My younger one still has a few years until he will be more independent.
> -my husband is 7 years older than me; I am making an effort lately and we are intimate once or twice a week
> - I am 7 months post op: physically I fell ok, I am in the best shape of my life, exercising daily and eating extremely healthy. Mentally, I am struggling.
> - Someone asked why I am getting irritated easily. It’s all the little things that set me off. For example when he is offering me foods and drinks that I cannot have and will never be able to have. This shows me he knows nothing about my new way of eating and this gets me mad. He never attended any of my support meetings at the hospital, never came to any of my appointments in the last 18 months (since I started this process). I left books and info all around the house and he never read them. I had to explain what the surgery is about a few days before the surgery. He is proud of me now and always compliments me, but I just don’t care. I am a very independent person and I’ve reached a point where even if he offers to attend a meeting with me, I don’t want him there. Another thing that set me off was when he bought me underwear a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to do a nice gesture, but bought nine pairs in my former size. I just lost it. I am down 110lbs and probably 4 sizes and he still buys me the old size from which I already have probably 50 pairs. He apologized the next day and said it was a mistake.
> He is making an effort lately to improve our relationship. I told him I need more from him, that I am in a fragile state right now. The verbal abuse is gone ( it was always related to my weight), he buys me flowers every week, he is trying to be more understanding with the kids, not so strict, so I don’t know why I can’t move on, why I feel so unhappy and on the edge.
> I will follow your advice and book an appointment with a therapist. For me first and then I will suggest marriage counselling.
> Thank you all!


Sounds like you two have a pretty good marriage. In your words,” He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?”. Because you lost weight and now have a new confidence. Why not try to reconcile with your husband of twenty years? It sounds like he really loves you and is trying to become a better husband.


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## lifeistooshort

Isshecheating said:


> Sounds like you two have a pretty good marriage. In your words,” He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?”. Because you lost weight and now have a new confidence. Why not try to reconcile with your husband of twenty years? It sounds like he really loves you and is trying to become a better husband.


You should probably read the entire thread. 

He's really treated her like **** throughout the entire marriage.

He's in panic now because he's losing control of his emotional punching bag.


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## personofinterest

lifeistooshort said:


> you should probably read the entire thread.
> 
> He's really treated her like **** throughout the entire marriage.
> 
> He's in panic now because he's losing control of his emotional punching bag.


exactly


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## bluedolphin

Thank you guys… 

It’s been a hard few days for me. Those mean posts that @MattMatt deleted messed up with my head more than I thought. And not because I am second guessing my decision. It’s because I realized a lot of people will think like that. That I am leaving him now that I am fit, that he stuck with me when I was overweight and this is how I repay him.
My conscience is at peace, I know what I’ve been through since 2011, maybe I made a mistake not addressing this sooner, not sharing my story with my family or friends.
And I do understand their reaction now. I’ve started sharing this with my sister and closest friends last May. Everyone was in shock . And most of them encouraged me to try to get over the resentment and work things out. For the longest time, I felt so alone in all this and said to myself: this is not such a big deal, I should be able to get over it.
But as someone said here, when you are done you’re done. 

My sister and I had a long discussion a few weeks ago. I was shocked to hear what she had to say. She apologized for not being more supportive, she said she wants me to be healthy, divorced or not, that my well being is all that matters to her. And she said she will be here for me no matter what decision I will take. I felt such a relief , you can’t even imagine. She is afraid that I will have a mental breakdown if I keep going like this. And she’s not far from the truth.

Meanwhile, my H has been sick, really sick. I helped him a bit, bought him pills and made sure he is comfortable. I did all the cooking, carpools and housework although I had a minor leg surgery two days ago. He couldn’t believe I am still going to the gym when he is so sick. I said kids are in bed, your fever is down, call me if you are not ok. He needs to get used to this. 

My main worry now is my oldest son. His competition schedule is packed for the next two months, he's going to Europe to train , his school workload is insane. So I do worry about him and trying to find the right time to talk to him. The coach suggested he should see the sports psychologist. I just have to convince my son to do that.

But I feel stronger now than I ever felt in the last 12 months and I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks again for all your support


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## MattMatt

Isshecheating said:


> Sounds like you two have a pretty good marriage. In your words,” He doesn’t cheat, he is not physically abusive, has a good job, he loves me and he is a good father. And he is right. He is all that, but why is this still not enough for me?”. Because you lost weight and now have a new confidence. Why not try to reconcile with your husband of twenty years? It sounds like he really loves you and is trying to become a better husband.


We do not allow a user who has been banned to open up a second account.

Now both your accounts will be permabanned.


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## bluedolphin

Well, I managed to complicate my life even more in a very short few weeks… Some of you saw this coming, not me, for sure.

We separated in January, but we didn’t tell the kids. Sleeping in separate bedrooms, finances still together, we just let things go into a sort of roommate situation. We avoided telling the kids, as my older one is dealing with some mental issues now.
We didn’t make a plan, we just sort of started living separate lives while parenting the kids.

Things are calm, no fights, kids seem happy.

And then… I met someone… yes, me, who said I am not interested, that I am not ready for this. Well, this fling, because I cannot find another name for it, made me realized that I could never go back to my husband. The connection I have with this guy is unbelievable… emotionally, sexually, intellectually… I said to myself, even if it ends tomorrow, I would die happy because I got to experience this feeling in my life. In 4 short weeks, we talked more than I talked to my husband in 20 years, with such a deep connection that it scares me sometimes.

This is just an intense and probably short lived romance, but it opened my eyes to possibilities of being truly connected with someone. I never had this in my life and it’s sad that I am experiencing this for the first time at 41 .
He is older than me, in an open marriage, his wife knows about me. Our only rule, from the day we met , was not to fall in love… I am guarded and to be honest, despite the connection, I know it’s not a long term type of relationship. Unfortunately, he is getting intense and trying to convince himself to follow this rule. 

Anyway, the way he makes me feel… with all my insecurities about my body, my past … he is unbelievable. In the beginning, I just couldn’t believe that a successful , handsome, fit guy like him would even look at me. Now, I am all he thinks about…
He helped me in so many ways, I feel cherished, desired, cared for, respected and much more… I am smiling for the first time in years, I am in a happy place and my mind is clear. I am not sure how long this will last, but for now , it is what it is…

And then came Sunday… We went out with the kids ( my H and I) , trying to lift our sons’ spirits up… and I got to talk to my H one on one. Well, his idea of this separation is totally different from mine. He doesn’t know about this other guy, I am not hiding when I go out, but I haven’t told him I am seeing someone.
My H sees this separation as just a phase in our reconciliation, him giving me space. He wants me back, he loves me , he is working on himself, he is fully committed to this marriage and he is sure we can pull this through. His words…
I was speechless. I was very clear when we separated that I am done. We didn’t talk about seeing other people, and that was not my intention in January.
I am not sure how many times I have to say it or how to get this message across so he can understand. I am done… It’s like I am talking to a brick wall. But my heart melted on Sunday. He really loves me, more than anything, and I know it would crush him if he finds out about this guy.

So, I guess many of you were not expecting such an update… Life is crazy… and for now I am just living the moment… I don’t know what will happen tomorrow, for now, I am taking care of my kids, love them and cherish every moment with them… My decision is made, I have to wait one year from the day of the separation ( this is the law where I live) to file for divorce… And I will move on…


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## 3Xnocharm

Sounds to me like you need to do a REAL separation, and move out. He is going to keep at this as long as you stay there in that house with him, unless you come clean about the man you have been seeing. I'm sure that would change his tune REAL quick. 

You need to stop seeing this man, and concentrate on your plan to get out. Think about it... he is in an open marriage... you will never have him. Even if by some chance his marriage ended, open marriage is what he does, so he would never be JUST YOURS. I know that I for one could NOT handle that, not at all. Pull your head out of the clouds and take care of business. Once you are away from your H, then you can proceed with the rest of your life.


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## Zodiac

Having been In an emotionally abusive relationship with a Narc women who didn't communicate if she didn't want to, for 13 years. You need to brace yourself when you meet empathetic people. They will make you high. In your state you're more likely to connect with someonen who is a controller and not really an empathizer. I mean hes in an open relstionship, he likes and does what hr wants. Everything you talked about how grrat it was, It all revolves around being heard, validated and wanted. I empathize, be careful.

Regarding your husband it's good you know he loves you, if you're done you need to leave and cut off communication besides about the kids. If he feels this is reconciliation and you agree, seek professional help. If not, be kind to him and you and get out.


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## Openminded

That was all too predictable, unfortunately. 

End your new relationship immediately and focus on getting your life straightened out. At some point you'll be ready for another relationship but that point is not now and definitely should not be with someone who is in an open marriage (or who claims at least to be in one).


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## bluedolphin

With all due respect, I will have to disagree...
You don't know this guy's situation. His wife cheated on him last year in October and they decided to have an open relationship so they can raise their teenage kid. I am his first relationship outside his marriage. And his wife definitely knows about me... we talked briefly. I am not in a fog, my head is very clear. He is not mine and I am not his. It's lust, sex, a deep connection and at this moment we support each other in a rough period of our life. I never thought I would be open to something like this, but here I am...
But I do admit I need to make things right with my H. He deserves that .


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## 3Xnocharm

This guy's situation is none of our concern, YOURS is. We are trying to shake you into reality, that you need to get away from your H and get YOUR life squared away. You are going to end up way too emotionally involved with someone who most likely will never be able to be faithful to one person. (you probably already are but are in denial about it) Get your side of the street clean first.


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## Openminded

I totally agree, 3X. This is a situation that has the potential to quickly get out of control. 

BD, I'm guessing you don't want to have to explain all of this to your sons but you run that risk if you don't end it.


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## Prodigal

bluedolphin said:


> My decision is made, I have to wait one year from the day of the separation ( this is the law where I live) to file for divorce… And I will move on…


You do realize a separation means you have to live separate and apart, right? Cohabitating, but sleeping in separate bedrooms, does not qualify as a one year separation.

I can understand how you got involved so quickly. After all, you were crapped on for years by your H. Are you planning to get your own place to live? If so, how do you think you'll feel if this man suddenly ghosts you or dumps you? 

I think you need to actually separate from your husband and get stronger emotionally before taking on a relationship. Something to consider ...


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## lifeistooshort

Blue, I get it. When you're not bonded with your hb you're going to be open to others. I know because that's what happened to me.

When I was bonded with my ex I never entertained thoughts of other men. But when I found out about his long term EA that was it.... the bond was broken and I started thinking about other men. 

The difference is that I ended my marriage and moved out. I mean this in the most gentle way possible as I know you're a long term abuse victim, but you are taking give coward's way out. Your not making the tough decisions required to be able to move on, and that includes not living with your hb.

The reason your hb doesn't get that it's over is because it's not. Not only are you still living with him, his proclamations of love still affect you. That's going to continue until you separate yourself from him.

Uprooting your life is hard....I know because I did it. But it has to be done. 

What makes you think your son won't actually be better off? Maybe half the reason he has issues is because he's watched his father abuse his mother while his mother takes it. You are a victim but so is your son. 

You are in no position to have good judgment with this other guy. How do you know his wife knows? Have you talked to her personally?

What makes you think you're the only one? This guy probably has other women as well, and in your state of mind it doesn't take much for him to manipulate you.

Get rid of this guy and move out....or ask your hb to leave. You're not separated until you don't live together. You'll exist in limbo, content with scraps of attention, until you end this and detach yourself. 

My ex can proclaim his undying love all he wants and I don't give a ****.


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## Tron

And with a man in an open marriage no less. WOW!!! That is going to work out well for you <<<dripping with sarcasm>>>

Save your H the aggravation, humiliation and heartbreak. Just tell him what you've been doing so he can finally be free of the fantasy he is living in. You owe it to him.


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## turnera

bluedolphin said:


> With all due respect, I will have to disagree...
> You don't know this guy's situation. His wife cheated on him last year in October and they decided to have an open relationship so they can raise their teenage kid. I am his first relationship outside his marriage. And his wife definitely knows about me... we talked briefly. I am not in a fog, my head is very clear. He is not mine and I am not his. It's lust, sex, a deep connection and at this moment we support each other in a rough period of our life. I never thought I would be open to something like this, but here I am...
> But I do admit I need to make things right with my H. He deserves that .


Not in a fog? Yeah, sure. 

If you're not in a fog, then tell this man you can't contact him for 2 weeks.

And PLEASE no more men until you aren't living in the same house as your husband. That's an affair.


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## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> Not in a fog? Yeah, sure.
> 
> If you're not in a fog, then tell this man you can't contact him for 2 weeks.
> 
> And PLEASE no more men until you aren't living in the same house as your husband. That's an affair.


QFT. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## dreamer2017

You and your affair partner are cheaters. Please tell your husband and divorce him because he deserve the truth. Also, have a sit down with your children and take full responsibility for your actions


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Your husband is going to find out what you have been up to while he is home watching the children. If he finds out before you tell him he will never believe a word you say. All he will see is a separation ruse so you could have space and a pass to sleep around, something that was not agreed upon. Which you did. 

Your behavior was statistically predictable. You claim someone you know for a month is perfect while you bad mouth and demonize the man you made 3 babies with. The same man who watches your children while you have sex with someone else behind his back. Cheater logic. 

Do the right thing and tell your husband what you did so he knows who you have become so he can move on with his life. 

That would entail you being honest with him. Do you have that in you or are you going to continue to lie to his face?


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## personofinterest

3Xnocharm said:


> This guy's situation is none of our concern, YOURS is. We are trying to shake you into reality, that you need to get away from your H and get YOUR life squared away. You are going to end up way too emotionally involved with someone who most likely will never be able to be faithful to one person. (you probably already are but are in denial about it) Get your side of the street clean first.


Exactly. Stop using your kids as an excuse to cheat and not file.

Own your cap and do the right thing.


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## x598

funny how this ended, predictably, with an affair.

OP all you have done is shown your true character.

my opinion of your situation has changed from sympathy to now doubting most of your portrayal of your husband. its rare to get the other side of the story and all you have done is imploded yours.


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## jlg07

"His wife cheated on him last year in October and they decided to have an open relationship so they can raise their teenage kid. "

To ME this looks like a revenge affair on his part, no matter what they say.
Also, do you want to have sex with a man who has sex with his wife and SHE has sex with others!! Yikes. I hope you get checked for STDs......


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## manfromlamancha

You need to come clean with your husband about your cheating. Also you need to send your husband here for help and advice.


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## turnera

fwiw, I don't think people are saying you're a bad person or evil or anything, it's just that you are doing something predictable: once you're 'away from' the issues with your stbx, you're pretty damn vulnerable to any guy who flatters you and pays attention. We see it all the time. 

Ignore the criticism, but listen to the advice, ok? You're in no condition to know when attention from a man is healthy. And by all description you've given, this one IS NOT.


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## FieryHairedLady

Dump this OM who is just using you for sex. An open marriage, come on. Even if his wife is "ok" with it, YOU Shouldn't be! 

Figure out what you are doing with hubby and stick to it. He deserves to know the truth.


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## Dutchman1

bluedolphin, 

It tastes like you planned this all along. 

Trashing your HB. Losing weight, longing for strange C...
Your husband at home watching the kids, and you are out FFing a man who is probable in a revenge A.

You just became a Cheater, and no amount of soap will ever wash that off.

Release your HB and your kids, for that is the right way. 
Let your HB mourn his M, but give him a chance to find a loyal woman who will not stab him in the back.
What saddens me the most, is that you write that you know your Hb loves you very much, hopes for a R, and is not aware that you opened the marriage.

If that what you are doing is love, i would not want any off that.

Stories like this makes the world a sad place.

Dutchman1


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## personofinterest

Dutchman1 said:


> bluedolphin,
> 
> It tastes like you planned this all along.
> 
> Trashing your HB. Losing weight, longing for strange C...
> Your husband at home watching the kids, and you are out FFing a man who is probable in a revenge A.
> 
> You just became a Cheater, and no amount of soap will ever wash that off.
> 
> Release your HB and your kids, for that is the right way.
> Let your HB mourn his M, but give him a chance to find a loyal woman who will not stab him in the back.
> What saddens me the most, is that you write that you know your Hb loves you very much, hopes for a R, and is not aware that you opened the marriage.
> 
> If that what you are doing is love, i would not want any off that.
> 
> Stories like this makes the world a sad place.
> 
> Dutchman1


Yep


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## 3Xnocharm

I don’t believe she has trashed her husband in relating her story. I believe she has been left super vulnerable and fell for the first guy who paid a little attention. No, I don’t think it’s ok, but I don’t feel she had any malicious intent with her thread. BD you need to ditch the guy and move out, it’s the right thing to do. You have forever to do what you want once you get your stuff with your H and your separation squared away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

She trashed her husband stating she fell out of love with him for his consistent fat shaming and disagreements on parenting style. Every married couple I know has arguments and heated debates on parenting style. I know of none that actually divorce over that alone. Usually other things get involved. As for fat shaming, I am not buying it. Looks like marriage rewrite to me to justify not being married to him anymore and trading up. Divorces following weight loss surgery bear a higher than average rate. Call it what it is. A new sense of self, shed the old, in with the new - including test driving future mates. 

I don't buy the super vulnerable theory either. Maybe super horny as her betrayed husband disgusts her as a man. She could not wait to put herself out there.

Lots of boundaries had to be crossed before she slept with the OM. One of them was explicitly stating to her husband that she considered her self free to date. She did not bother to cross that one with him because she knew what his response would be - but she crossed all the others behind her husbands back. Lies by omission. Just plain old cheating.


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## x598

this thread to me is invaluable in that it clearly indicates how affairs are born.

the OP came here with her "woe is me story"......how her husband shamed her, how she fell out of love, blah blah blah.

the problem is, without the other side of the story, many were supportive of her claims. maybe her husband did shame her....maybe not. her opinion is one sided and sadly what most do today is lie to themselves and everyone around them about their circumstances to achieve the sympathy, validation or support they want. this gives them the green light to do things they feel they are entitled to under false pretenses. Like so many cheaters....if her life with her husband really was a bad as painted out.....she would have left long before. instead the typical scenario plays out and this is where it ends.

Too bad the OP's husband isn't here to share his side of the story. I bet we would here something entirely different and this thread would have taken an entirely different direction.

I'm also wondering if the OP will return now that the cat is out of the bag. 

after seeing what went down with this thread.....I will always be leery of someone coming here griping about their spouse. its almost pointless to engage in a conversation with posters who do this.....since we have to take anything they throw out there as gospel and no ability to fact check.


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## 3Xnocharm

x598 said:


> after seeing what went down with this thread.....I will always be leery of someone coming here griping about their spouse. its almost pointless to engage in a conversation with posters who do this.....since we have to take anything they throw out there as gospel and no ability to fact check.


If there were no griping about spouses, this forum wouldnt exist. All we can do is work with the information we are given in order to try and help someone who is struggling.


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## x598

3Xnocharm said:


> If there were no griping about spouses, this forum wouldnt exist. All we can do is work with the information we are given in order to try and help someone who is struggling.


while I understand what you are saying about helping someone who is struggling...…… you don't go to the doctor and complain about headaches when you have a broken arm and expect a proper diagnosis. if an aircraft has a malfunction and the pilot isn't trained to recognize the symptoms, what happens? it crashes.

whats even more ironic is a couple posters were critical of the OP and offered opinions that were considered harsh or critical of the OP....with one of them even being banned.....and yet they turned out to be right and on the scent all along.

and that's why this story is now where it is.


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## nekonamida

Bluedoplhin, I completely understand how you found yourself in this situation. I just read your whole thread today and my exact thought was that you will realize how crappy your marriage and your H really is the second you find someone good. I was in a very similar boat to you - controlling behavior around my appearance (weight, clothing, make up, personal care, etc.), lots of put downs, and lots of blame heaped at me for things that I had no involvement in but turned out my ex involved himself in when he became the OM to a woman in a 10 year relationship. What a catch! And yet I worshiped the ground he walked on and thought it was all my fault until I met my husband and realized that I got played by a jerk big time. Good people do not respond to problems in their relationships with angry, aggressive, abusive, controlling, and passive aggressive behavior. They don't stoop to that level and they accept when they are wrong or at least accept when they are right but hurtful.

It really doesn't matter what he says. Only what he does matters. He can cry and whine that he loves you and can't live without you all he wants but his ACTIONS say he doesn't respect you, he won't do everything possible to fix this (won't go to MC, won't give you space, won't cut out his controlling/passive aggressive behavior, etc.), and he won't become a safe partner to you because he's done nothing to fix this. He hasn't read books, hasn't gone to IC, won't follow any advice from any counselor, and he has proven he can't do it alone. He's on a sinking ship and instead of addressing the holes and repairs or even scooping out the water, he's putting his hands over his ears, closing his eyes, and wishing it will all just go away. He will never change until he accepts that he has big problems that he needs to work at in order to fix and your marriage has zero chance at working until he does it. Chances are he will never do this because he got the perfect counselor for his situation and he won't listen and won't accept that he was wrong when you divorce him. He just wants to blame everyone else for his problems so that he can feel like he is perfect.

What he's expecting from you is just as ridiculous as if you sat around and did nothing to lose weight but expected him to act as if you were a size 6 when you were't and then got angry at him for not trying hard enough to delude himself. That's what he wants - for you to delude yourself into thinking he's a great guy again and loving him when you don't. He didn't accept you when he found your behavior unacceptable and yet he expects you to get over it and ignore his unacceptable behavior. That's not fair.

Furthermore, your friends may mean well but they are naive. They did not have to sit through years of anger and verbal abuse and they do not have to sit through it now. It's easy for them to tell you to forgive him and move on when they don't have to live with him every day. If they're similar to you, they also might be people pleasers themselves and who think they deserve abuse when it happens to them and don't understand how wrong they are. That friend who said you will never find someone who will love you as much as your H - look how wrong and stupid that sounds now! It's not hard to find someone to love who treats you better than he did. Ignore them completely and don't rely on them for advice if that advice is geared at excusing your H's bad behavior instead of supporting you and your happiness.

The new guy - do what you believe is right. You have confirmation about what is going on in this new relationship. You don't need anyone here to tell you that you need to doubt your own perceptions, feelings, and thoughts once again. You are capable of making good decisions for yourself and handling whatever becomes of them. Do exactly what you need to do in this situation and you will get through it and thrive when this is all over.


----------



## jsmart

Do you really believe being some horny married dude's side piece is better than being with the man you built a family with? How do you think your kids will feel about how you did their father? 

What's so sad is you said your husband is an attractive fit guy. He endured being with a very overweight wife for decades and didn't cheat on you or outright leave you. But as soon as you lose weight, you cuts him off sexually and start making your exit plans.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

jsmart said:


> Do you really believe being some horny married dude's side piece is better than being with the man you built a family with? How do you think your kids will feel about how you did their father?
> 
> *What's so sad is you said your husband is an attractive fit guy. He endured being with a very overweight wife for decades and didn't cheat on you or outright leave you.* But as soon as you lose weight, you cuts him off sexually and start making your exit plans.


You ever had to live with someone who constantly criticizes how you look? Insults you? Belittles you? Gaslights you? Puts you down until you feel like you are empty and nothing? Pretty sad that you believe a worthy partner is someone who is fit and doesnt cheat on you or leave you while you're fat! What kind of lousy, low ass standard is that? She was in a no win situation, he insulted her weight, then when she did something about it, he insulted her for losing it. She was damned either way. An accomplishment she should have been able to feel pride about she was instead harassed into feeling guilty about. The man is a jerk and deserves to be alone. 

Do not take my support of her situation as condoning her affair, because its not.


----------



## nekonamida

3Xnocharm said:


> She was in a no win situation, he insulted her weight, then when she did something about it, he insulted her for losing it. She was damned either way.


Worse yet, he tried to sabotage her. He shoved fatty foods and drinks in her face. He complained about how much she worked out and with whom. He complained incessantly about her weight and yet still managed to have sex with her 1-2 times a week. The weight issue was a smoke screen. Sure, he probably did wish she was fit but once she started doing something about it, he tried to put her back into a position where he could justify belittling her, controlling her, and feeling superior to her which was his real goal all along. Otherwise, he'd be supportive and happy about her weight loss.

Also, I have a hard time calling this an affair. She initiated an in house separation from her H before meeting with someone new. She's been telling him she will be pursuing a divorce for a while now. It's not her fault that he refuses to believe her and would call her a cheater if he found out. It's his choice not to listen to her and to treat her like a child throwing a tantrum instead of an adult making a difficult decision for themselves in a less-than-ideal situation. If she hadn't repeatedly told him that this is a separation and she will be divorcing him, I'd see it differently. She's been at this for months! I'd see it differently too if she met new guy first and started things with him before informing her H of the impending divorce. But because her H refusing to accept it's over and the laws of her state requiring 1 year of separation, she doesn't have a choice but to live in house and wait it out until he either agrees to leave and actually does it or she can officially file. If she wants to see someone new during that time, it's her right to whether STBXH likes it or not.


----------



## Zodiac

nekonamida said:


> ..... I was in a very similar boat to you - controlling behavior around my appearance (weight, clothing, make up, personal care, etc.), lots of put downs, and lots of blame heaped at me for things that I had no involvement in but turned out my ex involved himself in when he became the OM to a woman in a 10 year relationship. What a catch! And yet I worshiped the ground he walked on and thought it was all my fault until I met my husband and realized that I got played by a jerk big time. Good people do not respond to problems in their relationships with angry, aggressive, abusive, controlling, and passive aggressive behavior. They don't stoop to that level and they accept when they are wrong or at least accept when they are right but hurtful.....


I agree 100%, was with a narcissist who always said I made her want to cut herself when I made her aware of her bad behavior. 13 years and in the beginning of it all she was a cutter. The craziest thing to realize is that everything you just listed off isn't NORMAL. Normal relationships doesn't consist of one person on egg shells trying to talk about stuff, but afraid too or worried about the reaction because you know you're not getting a discussion out of it but getting an argument over it.


----------



## x598

all the justifications are just rolling in...……..

we now know she has the capacity to cheat. think we she asked for a separation she was truthful and told her husband other people are fair game?

all the talk of her being weight shamed now has to be viewed through the lens of possibly a history re-write. I don't doubt the husband probably was critical of being OBESE....and yes that is what being 100lbs over weight is......but is it possible he had valid reason to be critical of that?

sorry but cheaters re-write history and over amplify things into huge things to fit their narrative...….and funny how the OP hasn't been around since her fling....other posters are starting to be critical and whamo another cheater disappears when their is heat in the kitchen.


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## Red Sonja

The issue that should concern you the most is this:

What are you going to say to your teenage children when they find out you are a "side piece" to a married man? They WILL find out because *someone will see you with OM and start the gossip chain*. Teenagers love to exaggerate and pass on a good "story". Your children will likely hear about this from their friends; think about the harm that will cause.

Please, think about the consequences to your children.


----------



## personofinterest

Believe it or not, one can hate adultery and still acknowledge a husband who is an absolute ass.


----------



## Openminded

I agree, RS. It's her teenage boys I'm especially concerned about finding out what's going on -- and they probably will.


----------



## RubyRing

" *For example when he is offering me foods and drinks that I cannot have and will never be able to have. *"

I went through something similar. I was very slim when I married my ex. After some medical issues, I gained quite a bit of weight. My ex never directly belittled me about my weight, but was always implying that I was lazy, inactive and not athletic enough. (I took regular aerobic and yoga classes, but that wasn't good enough for him) When I joined Weight Watchers and lost 42 pounds, he seemed very pleased that I got my figure back, BUT he then proceeded to try and sabatoge by diet. Offering me fattening pastries, buying fattening junk food, and leaving it around the house, eating junk food in bed, complaining about my low fat food, but when I would buy 2 versions of peanut butter, or crackers, he would eat the low fat versions (which I clearly marked as mine) and leaving me with the full fat version. My house turned into a walking booby trap of junky, fattening food. Temptation everywhere, thanks to him. 

I did not understand his odd and unsupportive attitude towards my weight loss and all my efforts to be healthy. Unbeknownst to me, he had been scheming to divorce me, having multiple affairs, and was just waiting for our child to be grown, so he could move in with his mistress (whom he cheated upon early in their "relationship") He was trying to "build a case" against me, and I suspect part of that would be my weight gain, and when I lost the weight, I took away his trump card. He still tried to list my "lack of athleticism" as a justification for leaving me, but I was exercising regularly, just not doing any of his "approved" activities. He did have a few legit gripes against me, but it was hard to address those issues, when he wrapped them up in layers of bull**** complaints. (I don't like what you watch on TV when I'm not home, I don't like the way you sit so close to the steering wheel when you drive, I don't like you storing your fat free peanut butter in the refridgerator, you don't keep the pantry organized enough, I don't like you asking me how my day went when I get home, because then I have to listen to you tell me about YOUR day, and I don't want to hear it, etc. etc) 

I would take your hubbies attitude toward your new weight as a red flag. My hubby insisted that he "wasn't going anywhere" when we argued and in fact, he was plotting a divorce, but wanted to wait for our child to grown, and his next relationship partner secured before he did, so he hid his intentions. Unfortunately, despite his lying mouth, there were signs EVERYWHERE that he was plotting to dump me, and unfortunately, I was so naive and trusting that I was blinded to it. But his trying to fatten me up again, was the one thing that really concerned me.


----------



## [email protected]

Bluedolphin, I've been following this thread and, sorry, but it looks like your marriage is dead. D is the only advice I can offer. I hope I'm wrong.


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## 3Xnocharm

@RubyRing- wow your XH was an ass! YOU should have been the one plotting divorce! Ugh all those things you stated in ( ) that he said, sound JUST LIKE my XH2 used to!


----------



## Tell me more lies

On January 30th Bluedolphin posted this:



bluedolphin said:


> Thank you guys…
> 
> It’s been a hard few days for me. Those mean posts that @MattMatt deleted messed up with my head more than I thought. And not because I am second guessing my decision. It’s because I realized a lot of people will think like that. That I am leaving him now that I am fit, that he stuck with me when I was overweight and this is how I repay him.
> My conscience is at peace, I know what I’ve been through since 2011, maybe I made a mistake not addressing this sooner, not sharing my story with my family or friends.
> And I do understand their reaction now. I’ve started sharing this with my sister and closest friends last May. Everyone was in shock . And most of them encouraged me to try to get over the resentment and work things out. For the longest time, I felt so alone in all this and said to myself: this is not such a big deal, I should be able to get over it.
> But as someone said here, when you are done you’re done.
> 
> My sister and I had a long discussion a few weeks ago. I was shocked to hear what she had to say. She apologized for not being more supportive, she said she wants me to be healthy, divorced or not, that my well being is all that matters to her. And she said she will be here for me no matter what decision I will take. I felt such a relief , you can’t even imagine. She is afraid that I will have a mental breakdown if I keep going like this. And she’s not far from the truth.
> 
> Meanwhile, my H has been sick, really sick. I helped him a bit, bought him pills and made sure he is comfortable. I did all the cooking, carpools and housework although I had a minor leg surgery two days ago. He couldn’t believe I am still going to the gym when he is so sick. I said kids are in bed, your fever is down, call me if you are not ok. He needs to get used to this.
> 
> My main worry now is my oldest son. His competition schedule is packed for the next two months, he's going to Europe to train , his school workload is insane. So I do worry about him and trying to find the right time to talk to him. The coach suggested he should see the sports psychologist. I just have to convince my son to do that.
> 
> But I feel stronger now than I ever felt in the last 12 months and I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> Thanks again for all your support



*Then on March 19th Bluedolphin posted this:*

Well, I managed to complicate my life even more in a very short few weeks… Some of you saw this coming, not me, for sure.

We separated in January, but we didn’t tell the kids. Sleeping in separate bedrooms, finances still together, we just let things go into a sort of roommate situation. We avoided telling the kids, as my older one is dealing with some mental issues now.
We didn’t make a plan, we just sort of started living separate lives while parenting the kids.

Things are calm, no fights, kids seem happy.

And then… I met someone… yes, me, who said I am not interested, that I am not ready for this. Well, this fling, because I cannot find another name for it, made me realized that I could never go back to my husband. The connection I have with this guy is unbelievable… emotionally, sexually, intellectually… I said to myself, even if it ends tomorrow, I would die happy because I got to experience this feeling in my life. In 4 short weeks, we talked more than I talked to my husband in 20 years, with such a deep connection that it scares me sometimes.

This is just an intense and probably short lived romance, but it opened my eyes to possibilities of being truly connected with someone. I never had this in my life and it’s sad that I am experiencing this for the first time at 41 .
He is older than me, in an open marriage, his wife knows about me. Our only rule, from the day we met , was not to fall in love… I am guarded and to be honest, despite the connection, I know it’s not a long term type of relationship. Unfortunately, he is getting intense and trying to convince himself to follow this rule. 

Anyway, the way he makes me feel… with all my insecurities about my body, my past … he is unbelievable. In the beginning, I just couldn’t believe that a successful , handsome, fit guy like him would even look at me. Now, I am all he thinks about…
He helped me in so many ways, I feel cherished, desired, cared for, respected and much more… I am smiling for the first time in years, I am in a happy place and my mind is clear. I am not sure how long this will last, but for now , it is what it is…

And then came Sunday… We went out with the kids ( my H and I) , trying to lift our sons’ spirits up… and I got to talk to my H one on one. Well, his idea of this separation is totally different from mine. He doesn’t know about this other guy, I am not hiding when I go out, but I haven’t told him I am seeing someone.
My H sees this separation as just a phase in our reconciliation, him giving me space. He wants me back, he loves me , he is working on himself, he is fully committed to this marriage and he is sure we can pull this through. His words…
I was speechless. I was very clear when we separated that I am done. We didn’t talk about seeing other people, and that was not my intention in January.
I am not sure how many times I have to say it or how to get this message across so he can understand. I am done… It’s like I am talking to a brick wall. But my heart melted on Sunday. He really loves me, more than anything, and I know it would crush him if he finds out about this guy.

So, I guess many of you were not expecting such an update… Life is crazy… and for now I am just living the moment… I don’t know what will happen tomorrow, for now, I am taking care of my kids, love them and cherish every moment with them… My decision is made, I have to wait one year from the day of the separation ( this is the law where I live) to file for divorce… And I will move on… 


In less than 2 months she gets involved with a married man and has an affair?

Something doesn't seem right about this.....

I suspect there is *LOTS* more to this that Bluedolphin is not being straight forward about. 

Just go through the thread and only read BDs posts. Do not read any of the other replies. Then see if the story rings true to you.


----------



## pbj2016

> In less than 2 months she gets involved with a married man and has an affair?
> 
> 
> 
> Something doesn't seem right about this.....
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect there is *LOTS* more to this that Bluedolphin is not being straight forward about.
> 
> 
> 
> Just go through the thread and only read BDs posts. Do not read any of the other replies. Then see if the story rings true to you.




This is a strange post. I’m trying to see what the issue is with BD? She states in her first post back last summer she was already out of love. And one can see why. A verbally abusive husband who used up all the love with his cutting comments. 

She should have divorced first before she stepped out.

But why do you have an issue with what she has written?


----------



## Tell me more lies

pbj2016 said:


> This is a strange post. I’m trying to see what the issue is with BD? She states in her first post back last summer she was already out of love. And one can see why. A verbally abusive husband who used up all the love with his cutting comments.
> 
> She should have divorced first before she stepped out.
> 
> But why do you have an issue with what she has written?


Did you go through the thread and read all her posts?

I have the impression she was not honest from the beginning. Doesn't seem to ring true to me for some reason, not sure why at this point.


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## SongoftheSouth

Wow the judgement police are out on this. give her a break. Bluedolphin only you and your husband truly know what has transpired. I think of my situation and there was her story, my story and somewhere there between probably lied the truth. I give you the benefit of the doubt for what its worth although that and 50 cents still wont buy you a can of coca cola.


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## pbj2016

Tell me more lies said:


> Did you go through the thread and read all her posts?
> 
> 
> 
> I have the impression she was not honest from the beginning. Doesn't seem to ring true to me for some reason, not sure why at this point.




I always read everything the original poster has to say. To be sure I went back and reread the whole thread before responding to this post. (Ok...ok so I skip what Suncmars has to say because I never can understand it...it’s at a level my brain just can’t )

What doesn’t ring true? The weight loss surgery could have been part of her exit strategy. Does it matter? She could be rewriting history. Does it matter? She is going to give her best side even if not purposely misleading. That’s normal.

I don’t think she’s blameless. But in my opinion this marriage was over a long time ago. 

The verbal abuse shows there was contempt by her husband. She has always been overweight during the marriage. But his internal disgust with her unhealthy weight turned to contempt which became abusive. He also wasn’t supportive in her attempts to change even if the change was surgery. Can you expect a relationship to survive that especially some 20 years of it? 

OP please tell your husband the truth. You had/have no intention of reconciling. The ego boost you are getting from your affair partner is making you feel good, validated and heard but you still are a cheater and are being used. Stop relying on a man to define your happiness. 

This isn’t a healthy start to a new life. Legally separate. Stay healthy. Reassure your kids that you will always be there for them and mean it. Get divorced, and then begin your new life properly.


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## MJJEAN

My take on the whole situation.

A teenager started dating and then married an adult. It was her only experience of a romantic relationship. While not horrific, it wasn't good, either. 

Over time, hurt and resentment and maybe maturity made her realize she doesn't love her husband and cannot continue being married to him. 

She naturally stays on the fence. I mean, c'mon! This is a woman who has never been independent in her life. She's always been an "us" and that's how her brain has worked since literally adolescence. Fear of being alone, of being judged by family and society, maybe religious concerns surrounding divorce, fear of the unknown, of making a huge mistake, of alienating her children, and on and on. She's never had the typical life experience of forming, ending, and moving on from unsatisfactory romantic relationships. Most of us learned how to begin, end, and move on from romantic relationships in our teens and 20's. She's trying to learn how as a middle aged mother.

She finally tells her husband it's over and he just won't hear her. Not only will he not hear her, he starts manipulating the kids so they'll pressure her, too.

She's drowning.

A married man practicing ethical non-monogamy throws her a life line.

Some believe that marriage is permanent and anyone divorced and dating is committing adultery. Some believe it's adultery unless the ink is dry on the divorce papers. Others believe it's only adultery until the relationship has been terminated between the couple and there is no need to wait on legal formalities. I think we should just agree to disagree here, guys. We've beat that dead horse so much around here we should all have biceps like Arnold in his prime. Maybe we can concentrate on helping BlueDolphin without arguing what is and is not adultery in our personal views and work on helping Blue get healthy and whole.

To my view, taking adultery out of it, this relationship is both good and bad. Good that you, @bluedolphin, are seeing what a relationship can be. Good that you know you can never go back. Bad that you are in a vulnerable state and could easily become emotionally involved, which would only end in your pain during an already painful and confusing time.

Right now, you're jacked up on hormones and seeing this man and situation through rose colored glasses. The reality is that your life is a bit of a mess right now, you're vulnerable, and this has a pretty high chance of ending in a nuclear explosion.

You need to tell your husband very clearly and firmly there is absolutely zero chance of reconciling and that you will be filing for divorce as soon as you are legally able to do so. Make this abundantly clear to him, family, and friends. If you're going to continue seeing this married man keep it on the very back burner. DO NOT get emotionally attached. If you feel the beginnings of emotional attachment, run. You're not ready to be in an involved relationship yet and he's not available for an involved relationship even if you were. The only thing that can come out of emotional attachment between you is hurt all the way around.


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## bluedolphin

Thank you all for your responses. I read all of them and I am still here, trying to clean up my life.
It was hard to read some of your thoughts... I've always tried to be 100% honest here as I felt my life is falling apart. And your help was keeping me afloat mentally last year.

I do feel stronger now, I've made my decisions. It was hard to hear the word cheater, as in my mind I was completely separated from H. But I understand if some of you think I am and I respect your opinion.
So , in the last few days I managed to have a few hard conversations with both H and the other man. 

H is moving out as soon as he finds a place to live; the divorce is on and I think he finally got the point. He seems at peace . No fights, no yelling, a very calm 4 hour discussion led to this decision.

I stopped seeing the other man, we still talk as friends ( text), but no meetings. 

My main focus now will be the kids. My older one is doing much better, he had some help from his coach and the sports psychologist too. We will talk to them next week to explain the situation. I am seeing my therapist to prepare for this talk with the kids.

I know I am not perfect and I also know I am vulnerable now. And I've made a lot of mistakes in the last year, but all these mistakes brought me where I am today ; I am so grateful I am still healthy and able to raise my children.

There will be a few more bumps in the road for me but believe me, I have never been more confident that I will get through this and will find the balance that I crave so much.

Thank you again for all your help here...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I am very glad you came back to update Bluedolphin, I was worried you had gotten scared off. It sounds like you are moving in the right direction with things and that is awesome. Glad to read your H finally gets it that this is over and isnt making life harder for everyone. I hope you will continue to share updates, I have been rooting for you.


----------



## bluedolphin

3Xnocharm said:


> I am very glad you came back to update Bluedolphin, I was worried you had gotten scared off. It sounds like you are moving in the right direction with things and that is awesome. Glad to read your H finally gets it that this is over and isnt making life harder for everyone. I hope you will continue to share updates, I have been rooting for you.


thank you ... I've always appreciated your advice...


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## lifeistooshort

Such a great update Blue!

I'm glad your hb knows and you guys are amicable. From what you've said I suspect he wasn't all that happy either.....thus his need to tear you down.

Once you guys are living apart and divorced you'll be in a better place to pick a good partner who is both available and happy to have you.

Definitely keep us updated!


----------



## Rubix Cubed

bluedolphin said:


> ...
> 
> I stopped seeing the other man, we still talk as friends ( text), but no meetings.
> 
> ...


 Great update. 

I think not seeing the other man was a good decision. If you truly were his first date of an open marriage he would have been dipping his toe in the surrounding waters sooner or later.


----------



## bluedolphin

Update ... after six crazy months.
I'm finally in my own place, I rented a nice house, we share custody and divorce will be final next year...
All I wanted from all this is to be still sane at the end of the year... 

The last six months were insane... 
...I lost my job, had two major surgeries, almost died after the second one, lost some friends who judge too much and want me to stay in the marriage for the kids sake, went to Europe to talk to my parents about all this craziness... my ex called me demented, said I'm going through a phase and I will crawl back to him, he said I am in a fog and I cannot think for myself, that I'm ruining the marriage and I'll end up in the streets... he followed me, ripped my lingerie, stole my phone, went through my personal stuff, read personal correspondence, verbally abused me, called me a prostitute while I was driving so I kicked him out of the car on the highway and told him that even prostitutes have rights, he tried to get the kids away from me, luckily my relationship with them is better than ever, the older one stood up for me in front of his dad... I started a new job, great company and people... 
I fell apart a thousand times, and every morning I get up and face my fears...
I feel strong and weak in the same time, I allow myself to cry and laugh and be irrational and then I get my s**t together and go on.
I see glimpses of hope and happiness, I enjoy every moment I have with my kids, I want them to be happy and at peace and I hope we can get to a stage where my ex and I can coparent responsibly. 
And... in all this craziness called life... I managed to fall in love... I learned that life cannot be planned... so I'll just take it one day at the time...


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## SunCMars

All the way to the end he swung hard the whip. 

He was your shadow, your photo negative.

He seemed more happy when you were sad, and angriest when you were happier.

You represent his failure, he looks at you as broken, always has.

He cannot face his own failures, as he has none, as he refuses to own any. 

In his mind, they all reflect back on you.

In truth, he hates himself the most and takes it out on you.

At first, I was upset that you told him about your fling.

Then, after reflection, I realized that this is what he 'deserved' to hear. 

I guarantee it cut him to the bone.

He needs to be cut down to proper size. Such, a little man he really is.



LMc-


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## lifeistooshort

Great update Blue.

Notice how your husband continued to abuse you? That's who he is and you should have absolutely no doubts that leaving was the right thing to do.

It'll become even more clear the further away from him you get.

Here's wishing you peace and happiness in your new life!


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## Prodigal

@bluedolphin, I really hope you will stick around because the message of hope you can bring to others who are remaining in hurtful relationships would be extremely helpful.

There are men and women on TAM who are stuck in bad relationships/marriages who could use your insight and strength to move forward.

Please don't be a stranger!


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## She'sStillGotIt

bluedolphin said:


> .... and divorce will be final next year....


It's the best 180 pounds you'll EVER lose, Bluedolphin. Good for you.


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## SunCMars

Broken, is the first step in being rebuilt, anew.
Who knew?

Bones are set in stone, they cannot be aimed differently.
Broken bones, can be set straight, the long wait ending.

The weight of despair then properly balanced, carted, parted, then gone.



The Typist I-


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## manfromlamancha

Did you ever come clean to your ex husband about your affair ? Your kids ?


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## Sfort

dadstartingover said:


> 85% end in divorce within two years of the surgery.


Why so?


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## StillSearching

manfromlamancha said:


> Did you ever come clean to your ex husband about your affair ? Your kids ?


Here's the REAL question. 
The answer to this will tell her who she is and how she moves on in order.
Or how she moves on in chaos.


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## Sfort

bluedolphin said:


> I managed to fall in love...


With the guy in the open marriage or with someone else?


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## bluedolphin

Well, to respond to the question. I know some of you consider that I cheated. And that's fine. I was still living in that house . I didn't know my rights. I thought he needs to sign the separation agreement in order for it to be legal. And although we were separated for months when I met that guy, people still consider this an affair. 
I never put labels on that relationship. It wasn't planned, I was vulnerable and I needed support. 
When I finally hired a lawyer , she explained that I was legally separated the moment I voiced my intention to him to separate. That's how the law works where I live. So I was legally separated when I met the other guy. And that's the date considered for our divorce. 
And I wasn't hiding. He knew I was going out, I never shared too many details as it wasn't his business. But he knew his name, kids knew I started seeing someone, I never lied as to where I am, maybe just ommiting my whereabouts. And that because he was following me and causing scenes with the other guy ( happened twice, I was afraid they will end up in jail).
And the double standard comes into place here... my ex started dating, sometimes going on five dates with five different women in two weeks ( he shared that info with me). He wanted to make me jealous, I understand, but still... he was entitled to do that while I was having an " affair ". He is seeing someone now, he is still obsessed with me and that's it. I'm living with it. I hope he finds his peace and happiness and leaves me alone.
I really don't want to hurt him, I care about him, I took him to emergency when he was sick, I cooked, did his laundry, cleaned, cared for him while separated but still living together. I want all the best for him and I think we can get to a place of harmony as coparents.
I just want to move on. I have the kids 50% of the time, I'm in a relationship that brings me joy and confidence and challenges my mind, the kids are adjusting and are happier than in the last two years and that's what's important now. Seeing their parents civilized and friendly changed everything for them.

I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not. I made my share of mistakes. But for sure I'm in a better place than I thought I will be . I had the courage to do something about my situation and not live on autopilot anymore. 
The fear of unknown, the uncertainty in my life... yes, I struggle with that. I'm still seeing the therapist to help me deal with that. He was a great help in making me understand how to transition the kids to their new life.
I strongly believe in that saying: the toughest relationship you'll have after an abusive relationship is the one with yourself. 
Lots of work ahead of me but I'm getting there...


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## 3Xnocharm

I am sooo happy for you, Blue! I think this is a great update!


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## manfromlamancha

I am happy that you are moving on and also hopefully, so is your ex-Husband.

However, you posted the following in March this year which does not gel with what you say now...



bluedolphin said:


> Well, *I managed to complicate my life even more in a very short few weeks… Some of you saw this coming, not me, for sure.*
> 
> We separated in January, but we didn’t tell the kids. Sleeping in separate bedrooms, finances still together, we just let things go into a sort of roommate situation. We avoided telling the kids, as my older one is dealing with some mental issues now.
> *We didn’t make a plan, we just sort of started living separate lives while parenting the kids.*
> 
> Things are calm, no fights, kids seem happy.
> 
> And then…* I met someone… yes, me, who said I am not interested, that I am not ready for this. Well, this fling, because I cannot find another name for it, made me realized that I could never go back to my husband.* The connection I have with this guy is unbelievable… emotionally, sexually, intellectually… I said to myself, even if it ends tomorrow, I would die happy because I got to experience this feeling in my life. In 4 short weeks, we talked more than I talked to my husband in 20 years, with such a deep connection that it scares me sometimes.
> 
> *This is just an intense and probably short lived romance*, but it opened my eyes to possibilities of being truly connected with someone. I never had this in my life and it’s sad that I am experiencing this for the first time at 41 .
> *He is older than me, in an open marriage, his wife knows about me. Our only rule, from the day we met , was not to fall in love… I am guarded and to be honest, despite the connection, I know it’s not a long term type of relationship.* Unfortunately, he is getting intense and trying to convince himself to follow this rule.
> 
> Anyway, the way he makes me feel… with all my insecurities about my body, my past … he is unbelievable. In the beginning, I just couldn’t believe that a successful , handsome, fit guy like him would even look at me. Now, I am all he thinks about…
> He helped me in so many ways, I feel cherished, desired, cared for, respected and much more… I am smiling for the first time in years, I am in a happy place and my mind is clear. I am not sure how long this will last, but for now , it is what it is…
> 
> And then came Sunday… We went out with the kids ( my H and I) , trying to lift our sons’ spirits up… and I got to talk to my H one on one. Well, his idea of this separation is totally different from mine. He doesn’t know about this other guy, I am not hiding when I go out, but I haven’t told him I am seeing someone.
> My H sees this separation as just a phase in our reconciliation, him giving me space. He wants me back, he loves me , he is working on himself, he is fully committed to this marriage and he is sure we can pull this through. His words…
> I was speechless. I was very clear when we separated that I am done. *We didn’t talk about seeing other people, and that was not my intention in January.*
> I am not sure how many times I have to say it or how to get this message across so he can understand. I am done… It’s like I am talking to a brick wall. *But my heart melted on Sunday. He really loves me, more than anything, and I know it would crush him if he finds out about this guy.*
> 
> So, I guess many of you were not expecting such an update… Life is crazy… and for now I am just living the moment… I don’t know what will happen tomorrow, for now, I am taking care of my kids, love them and cherish every moment with them… My decision is made,* I have to wait one year from the day of the separation ( this is the law where I live) to file for divorce*… And I will move on…


Compared with ...



bluedolphin said:


> Well, to respond to the question. I know some of you consider that I cheated. And that's fine. I was still living in that house . I didn't know my rights. I thought he needs to sign the separation agreement in order for it to be legal. And although we were separated for months when I met that guy, people still consider this an affair.
> I never put labels on that relationship. It wasn't planned, I was vulnerable and I needed support.
> When I finally hired a lawyer , she explained that I was legally separated the moment I voiced my intention to him to separate. That's how the law works where I live. So I was legally separated when I met the other guy. And that's the date considered for our divorce.
> *And I wasn't hiding. He knew I was going out, I never shared too many details as it wasn't his business. But he knew his name, kids knew I started seeing someone, I never lied as to where I am, maybe just ommiting my whereabouts. And that because he was following me and causing scenes with the other guy ( happened twice, I was afraid they will end up in jail).*
> And the double standard comes into place here... my ex started dating, sometimes going on five dates with five different women in two weeks ( he shared that info with me). He wanted to make me jealous, I understand, but still... he was entitled to do that while I was having an " affair ". He is seeing someone now, he is still obsessed with me and that's it. I'm living with it. I hope he finds his peace and happiness and leaves me alone.
> I really don't want to hurt him, I care about him, I took him to emergency when he was sick, I cooked, did his laundry, cleaned, cared for him while separated but still living together. I want all the best for him and I think we can get to a place of harmony as coparents.
> I just want to move on. I have the kids 50% of the time, I'm in a relationship that brings me joy and confidence and challenges my mind, the kids are adjusting and are happier than in the last two years and that's what's important now. Seeing their parents civilized and friendly changed everything for them.
> 
> I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not. I made my share of mistakes. But for sure I'm in a better place than I thought I will be . I had the courage to do something about my situation and not live on autopilot anymore.
> The fear of unknown, the uncertainty in my life... yes, I struggle with that. I'm still seeing the therapist to help me deal with that. He was a great help in making me understand how to transition the kids to their new life.
> I strongly believe in that saying: the toughest relationship you'll have after an abusive relationship is the one with yourself.
> Lots of work ahead of me but I'm getting there...


And also when your son stood up for you, did he know abot Mr. Open Marriage guy at the time ? You say you fell in love ? With who ? Mr. Open Marriage or someone else ? The reason I ask this is because you said you stopped seeing Mr. Open Marriage and if it is someone else, it didnt take long to fall in love (which is pretty serious).

Have your kids met your new beau? 



You have got to understand that to some on this board, all your comments are being viewed through new tinted glasses which might appear something like this :



You have a stubborn husband who is 7 years older than you (and you had never been with other men having married fairly young) and who loved you very much


You were overweight, had weight reduction surgery, felt more desired by other men and managed to attract an older guy who is in an open marriage and offered no strings sex


You decided to drop your husband and rewrite marital history to justify your actions (Mr Open Marriage suddenly appeared after your treatise on just how awful your husband was to you)


You are now out, with half the marital assets (and presumably some alimony) and a life to freely pursue other men but are also suddenly in love (with someone that was not on the scene before ?).



Now I am not saying that all this is the truth, but it definitely casts a shadow on everything you have said so far. I am assuming that you come to TAM for two things - support in your decisions to make you feel good and advice. You have received some good and some harsh advice here. You have also received a lot of "you go girl" support. I hope you managed to derive some good from all this.


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## bluedolphin

My ex found out about this man a few weeks into the relationship. Kids too. We were separated. Legally, as per the law. And we didn't talk about seeing other people because I didn't think it's his problem. 
And yes, my son knows I'm seeing someone and he stood up for me. He told his dad that what is doing is wrong. The verbal abuse was too much even for the kids to hear.
As I said, I made mistakes. I'm not perfect. Ultimately, this story is about me falling out of love due to some circumstances. Years ago. Nothing to do with a third party. 
I stopped bringing up the verbal abuse, he will never admit he did something wrong. And I'm not gonna waste my life trying to make him understand. Yes, i was fat. Yes, he stayed with me... but he didn't have to. No one should be subjected to abuse in any circumstances. It was my choice to stay for so many years. And his failure to understand and work on the problem, was the end of us. 
And as a side note, I waived all my rights for spousal support. I'm not after his money. We both are starting new lives, I'm not gonna chain him to me and make him pay for 20 years. I hope he will find someone that he spends his life with, happy, I don't want our relationship to be looming above his head for years. 
He got most of the assets, new car, we just split the equity in the house. 
And this guilt that people put on me... I can deal with that now. I don't need the approval of others to go on with my life. I took a decision and I stuck with it. That's it. 
And I do come back here for updates, not to get a pat on the back, but maybe to help others that are struggling. I was on the edge for so long, and maybe a story of resilience and pain and hope will help them see their life in a different light.


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## BluesPower

bluedolphin said:


> My ex found out about this man a few weeks into the relationship. Kids too. We were separated. Legally, as per the law. And we didn't talk about seeing other people because I didn't think it's his problem.
> And yes, my son knows I'm seeing someone and he stood up for me. He told his dad that what is doing is wrong. The verbal abuse was too much even for the kids to hear.
> 
> As I said, I made mistakes. I'm not perfect. Ultimately, this story is about me falling out of love due to some circumstances. Years ago. Nothing to do with a third party.
> I stopped bringing up the verbal abuse, he will never admit he did something wrong. And I'm not gonna waste my life trying to make him understand. Yes, i was fat. Yes, he stayed with me... but he didn't have to. No one should be subjected to abuse in any circumstances. It was my choice to stay for so many years. And his failure to understand and work on the problem, was the end of us.
> 
> And as a side note, I waived all my rights for spousal support. I'm not after his money. We both are starting new lives, I'm not gonna chain him to me and make him pay for 20 years. I hope he will find someone that he spends his life with, happy, I don't want our relationship to be looming above his head for years.
> 
> He got most of the assets, new car, we just split the equity in the house.
> And this guilt that people put on me... I can deal with that now. I don't need the approval of others to go on with my life. I took a decision and I stuck with it. That's it.
> 
> And I do come back here for updates, not to get a pat on the back, but maybe to help others that are struggling. I was on the edge for so long, and maybe a story of resilience and pain and hope will help them see their life in a different light.


You know what, I don't really think that you have anything to feel bad about. The marriage was dead, for whatever reason, it sucks so move on. 

You hold your head high, you got out as clean as you could and you should feel good about it. 

And let us know how you are doing...


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## Yeswecan

Life does move on. For you, it would seem to be for the better!


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## dadstartingover

Sfort said:


> Why so?


Mismatched attraction levels are not sustainable in a relationship. One suddenly loses a ton of weight and is introduced to a whole new world of attention from the opposite sex, new friends, new social circle, etc. Suddenly old out-of-shape spouse isn't so attractive. Boundaries are broken down... marriage over. It's so common that many places warn people of the 85% statistic prior to surgery.


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## manfromlamancha

bluedolphin said:


> My ex found out about this man a few weeks into the relationship. Kids too. We were separated. Legally, as per the law. And we didn't talk about seeing other people because I didn't think it's his problem.
> And yes, my son knows I'm seeing someone and he stood up for me. He told his dad that what is doing is wrong. The verbal abuse was too much even for the kids to hear.
> As I said, I made mistakes. I'm not perfect. Ultimately, this story is about me falling out of love due to some circumstances. Years ago. Nothing to do with a third party.
> I stopped bringing up the verbal abuse, he will never admit he did something wrong. And I'm not gonna waste my life trying to make him understand. Yes, i was fat. Yes, he stayed with me... but he didn't have to. No one should be subjected to abuse in any circumstances. It was my choice to stay for so many years. And his failure to understand and work on the problem, was the end of us.
> And as a side note, I waived all my rights for spousal support. I'm not after his money. We both are starting new lives, I'm not gonna chain him to me and make him pay for 20 years. I hope he will find someone that he spends his life with, happy, I don't want our relationship to be looming above his head for years.
> He got most of the assets, new car, we just split the equity in the house.
> And this guilt that people put on me... I can deal with that now. I don't need the approval of others to go on with my life. I took a decision and I stuck with it. That's it.
> And I do come back here for updates, not to get a pat on the back, but maybe to help others that are struggling. I was on the edge for so long, and maybe a story of resilience and pain and hope will help them see their life in a different light.


As I said before - its great that you are moving on and are happy now and lets hope the same happens for your stbxh. You never said if the man you are now in love with, is the same Open Marriage Guy or somebody new.

And I must say that it is very mature of your son who knew you were in a sexual relationship with another married guy in an open marriage while still being married to your husband (abusive though he may well have been) to have taken up for you.

Also kudos to you for making a clean break and not having your stbxh tied to you in any way.


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## SunCMars

bluedolphin said:


> I hope he finds his peace and happiness and leaves me alone.
> I really don't want to hurt him, I care about him, I took him to emergency when he was sick, I cooked, did his laundry, cleaned, cared for him while separated but still living together. I want all the best for him and I think we can get to a place of harmony as coparents.



:smile2: You did good, no, you did great. You will be a fine catch for any new man. :smile2:

Carry on!

:grin2:


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## manfromlamancha

You recently said you fell in love. I'll ask again is this the Open Marriage guy you had a "tryst" with or someone new ?


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## Lila

manfromlamancha said:


> You recently said you fell in love. I'll ask again is this the Open Marriage guy you had a "tryst" with or someone new ?


 @manfromlamancha, speaking as moderator, you are not entitled to a response. If she hasn't responded to you it's because she either has you on ignore or does not want to answer your question. Let it go.


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## SongoftheSouth

Glad things are looking up for you BD and I hope you guys can co-parent successfully.


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## aquarius1

Great update! Happy to hear that you are moving forward.
Mistakes are part of life.
That's how we learn and grow


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## manfromlamancha

Lila said:


> @manfromlamancha, speaking as moderator, you are not entitled to a response. If she hasn't responded to you it's because she either has you on ignore or does not want to answer your question. Let it go.


That is fair enough although I cannot understand why a simple answer would not be forthcoming. I just thought that she had missed the question the first time round. I simply saw it as a necessary piece of information in order for TAM to give her the best advice rather than simply "you go girl" which is not helpful to her or her husband.

I will, as you say, let it go!


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