# Hello



## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

Hi
I have browsed this website for years but this is my first post. My wife had a two or three month affair and I am considering divorce.
I found out two months ago. I asked for marriage counseling right away and she agreed. We have been skyping the counselor weekly or more since then. The counselor is good but not great. She really likes my wife and seems to have bonded with her over their similar mother issues. I like the counselor but she is strongly for reconciliation as I was two months ago. Now I am leaning toward divorce.

First, we live on a small island in the South Pacific and there are no counselors here that I would use. The only ones here are religious fanatics and I am a secular humanist. So Skype is cool. It is actually a godsend (hahaha). We came here for my career so I could work as a prosecutor at the attorney generals office. 

She had an affair with a village chief. The move here was difficult for her. She grew up in Hawaii so I thought it should be OK for her. But it was really hard. This island is definitely not Hawaii. Her lover is a serial womanizer with at least 10 children from different women. He is also dirt poor and generally a piece of excrement. He gave her chlamydia, which necessitated her confession to me. 

We have been married since 2002 and I was blissfully happy. When she got the diagnosis she suggested that the local hospital screwed up. So I got tested and they screwed up my test. It came back only stating that it was done incorrectly. Which really sucked because the test itself was unpleasant. But I was so relieved. I believed that the lab must have screwed up her test too. So I fully believed she was faithful. I felt guilty for doubting her. But then she told me she had the affair.

I told her to leave. Then I changed my mind. Then I left, but I came home the next day. Our sex life improved and we talked about a threesome. (monogamy seemed passe because you know, it was OK for her.) So I picked up a cute bartender and tried to set up a threesome. My wife freaked out when it became a reality so I had a revenge affair. I told her ahead of time. I had sex with a bartender I picked up, who was scheduled to leave in a few days because I could. She sat at home texting me every 10 minutes while I had sex with someone else. She drank and considered suicide. I felt horrible afterwards and begged her for forgiveness. She forgave me. We are trying to be in love again. 

I am a mess. I am in love with my wife. Sometimes I think homicidal thoughts about her lover (I do not have a plan and have not made any real intentions to do something. A pretty large percent of my prosecution cases are the result of infidelity and I do not plan on crossing that line to be one of those guys.) I want to divorce her. I want to recover our marriage sometime and divorce her at other times. It is a total roller coaster. Seriously my life was so calm a year ago. I was never so at ease as I was when she was having the affair. I have been blindsided. I am a mess now. 

If I divorce her here I can do it in 6 weeks, easy. If we move back to California it will take a year. The residency requirement is 6 months to file then 6 months to get the divorce. She said she would give me the divorce. 

We have two kids age 10 and 12 plus two adult children from her previous marriage. 

She has benefitted greatly from therapy. The first few sessions were about her complaints about me. Then we talked about her abusive mother. As therapy has progressed the therapist has pointed out to her that when my wife blames me for x, she is really angry at her mother. It has been an incredible breakthrough for her. It often leaves her suffering for days as she recalls the abuse she suffered through. But it also helps her to understand that the years of resentment she had to me were misdirected. (I had no idea my wife hated me for things that I thought were pretty normal.) As a result of the therapy I will not ever allow my children to be alone with their grandmother and really hope my wife cuts her off completely. She is a monster. 

Since I learned of the affair she has been the perfect wife. Our sex life is great. We talk all the time about everything. At first she was reluctant to tell me details and she deleted everything electronic. But I cross examined her like a pro (honestly, I am going to be a better prosecutor because of what I did with my wife. I got the truth out of her better than I ever have with a witness). Between that and the counseling she has committed herself to being 100% honest. 

I want to divorce because I think our marriage vows are destroyed forever. I feel no need to abide by them since she did not. I know I can find other women. I do not think I can ever trust her again. I do not want to be 70 years old and wondering if she really has a doctors appointment or if she is going to have another affair. I don't like reading her texts and her emails. I never did that for 15 years. Now I obsess over how to find out who she is communicating with online. It is unhealthy.

I want to stay married because I love our kids and do not want them to suffer. I love my wife and do not want her to suffer. I do not want to have a painful divorce (so I bought the book Conscious Uncoupling to make sure we do not have a bad divorce.) I also do not want to wait until I am 10 years older to divorce because somehow things did not work the way I planned. 

So I am considering divorce. But I am not sure. I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks for reading my first post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sorry for what you are going though. Infidelity is a hard thing to process. But a fair number of couples do fix their marriages and go on to have a good marriage afterwards.

On this site, most people will tell you to just divorce. So be aware of that when you start getting responses.

What are the things that your wife is doing to prove to you that she can be trusted? Here is another book that might be helpful to the two of you.


How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The more I read, the more skeptical I become about reconciling with a cheater.

The good thing about you is you are confident in yourself and it seems pretty clear that your wife probably knows you'll never tolerate infidelity again.
If she is remorseful and not just in fear of losing her security blanket with you, there's a chance of reconciliation.

Realize that you are now a cheater. Revenge or not, you did it. And considering a three some? Your wife went along with that for a while to appease you. Of course she didn't want that!

You need to figure out whether you can live with knowing she was unfaithful, and whether you both have figured out why it happened I the first place and if you can settle that issue so that in your mind, you can trust her.

If you can't live with it and don't think you can ever trust her again, just divorce quickly.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

It sounds as if you have all you need to know counselor... how would you advise yourself?

I think vows are extremely important... it defines our commitments first to ourselves than to another the other benefitting in that promise. In the last six months I have learned that every promise I made to my wife was not without that to myself first.

That said, divorce is not always breaking a promise... what it is, is recognizing that trusting impermanence does not come without work and that when we recognize such, removing that barrier from our life which hurts us, either spiritually or of a physical nature (often hand-in-hand), we have the power to make those choices with the self love, respect, and worth because we cannot have healthy relationships without them.

It sounds as she was lost for many reasons... what drove her to this particular person is really not important, what is important is that you find the calm you need to choose the path best for you, whether to stay in a relationship you have lost trust in or not. 

Anything more than the basics of what you need are a diversion... when one adds to the confusion such complications of other sexual encounters then you are doing nothing but reinforcing defeat of the self as you found out.

Nothing is destroyed forever because life itself is ever-changing... she can choose transparency and you can choose to trust again. Some say this is setting oneself up for failure, others say it is a freedom... and a disguised one at that because we accept a measurement of our our life by future hope, focusing on how we are able to be present in this moment, and do it well.

Losing faith is much worse than losing your marriage... with mistrust, one tends to find what they’re looking for.

Find reasons to believe rather than reasons to doubt...


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## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

Elegrl, Thanks for the book. I read the intro. I will print it out. 
To prove that she can be trusted, she is going to counseling and fully participating. She is no longer deleting messages, though it took her a while to understand why this was important to me. She is answering questions honestly when I ask. Each day we try to talk about good and bad feelings we have for each other. There are more days when I am blissfully happy with her and my family than bad days. Maybe 5 days a week are good and I have bad thoughts and just let them pass through my mind then think about something else. But there are bad days and I get so down. I am filled with anger and self pity and jealousy and a desire to just run away. 

Evinrude58, I know. I cheated too. After finding out I made her get an HIV test. I got one too before we started having sex again. But once we did we became a lot more experimental. She is trying to make me happy and I am trying to make her satisfied with me. So the threesome idea seemed like fun but I think she did not realize that I could make it happen. (neither did I. I haven't picked up a woman since the 90s - I was like 'hey baby, do you want to go to a Pearl Jam concert with me?'). It happened fast. I felt rejected when she changed her mind. I know I should have backed out too. I wish I did. I felt like I was not betraying her because I was being honest but I really hurt her and it was wrong. 

The woman I had sex with left the island permanently. OTOH I see her lover pretty frequently. I work near him and drive past his place to get home from work. He is a prominent member of the community as I am so our paths cross. We are making plans to leave the islands for California this year.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your feelings will most probably subside over time. The wound is currently too new to have healed significantly but with the passage of time it should. However, you will most likely never forget and your trust in her will never be as it was. If you have a sincere desire to R you must allow more time for the wound to at least begin to heal over. Right now you emotions, and your life, are in tumult and any decision you make during this time will no doubt be different than what you will make once the storm in your mind subsides.

Therefore, in fairness to your child and yourself, it may be prudent to allow your W some time to prove her resolve and you some time to calm your troubled mind so that the decision you ultimately make will be as rational and as reasoned as is possible under these circumstances. Your decision to R should only be considered IF you have irrefutable and undeniable substantive proof of your W's desire to help you heal. Lacking that R should not even be considered and it should be carefully considered even with that evidence. I wish you well.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

asgdf said:


> Hi
> I have browsed this website for years but this is my first post. My wife had a two or three month affair and I am considering divorce.
> I found out two months ago. I asked for marriage counseling right away and she agreed. We have been skyping the counselor weekly or more since then. The counselor is good but not great. She really likes my wife and seems to have bonded with her over their similar mother issues. I like the counselor but she is strongly for reconciliation as I was two months ago. Now I am leaning toward divorce.
> 
> ...


I think you lost the moral high ground when you had your revenge affair, particularly when you knew the devastation of infidelity you still went ahead and forced the same pain on your wife. Did it make you feel better? I thought so.

Reconciliation is a long hard road but time is a great healer and if you are both willing and able to put in the work, anything is possible. It seems you both love each other and your kids will benefit if you stay together. You are still youngish so give it a few years and if things are still not better, consider divorce.


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## release2016 (Dec 30, 2016)

At this point do you either of you know what you truly want to happen and how you want to move forward to get to that point? Do you both really want the same thing or is it more about that you ought to be doing/wanting, rather than what you actually want to do and what will be "healthy" AND sustainable for the longterm.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

aine said:


> I think you lost the moral high ground when you had your revenge affair, particularly when you knew the devastation of infidelity you still went ahead and forced the same pain on your wife. Did it make you feel better? I thought so.
> 
> Reconciliation is a long hard road but time is a great healer and if you are both willing and able to put in the work, anything is possible. It seems you both love each other and your kids will benefit if you stay together. You are still youngish so give it a few years and if things are still not better, consider divorce.


*First things first: As a member of the legal community, you know, all too well, what the ramifications are of having a case heard before a partial judge or at least one who has prejudice in a case ~ well that's exactly what you do when you use an IC to one party to be an unprejudiced and neutral MC. It's kind of like airing a case in a kangaroo court, where the "judge" seems to have a dog in the fight! I learned this the hard way with my RSXW and her IC prior to our ultimate separation and divorce!

And counseling should always be done in person and not on Skype or telephone unless you truly have an impartial, trusted MC that is already several sessions deep into your case and that whereby meeting with them in person is a temporary inconvenience because of travel schedules, et. al.

Agreeing with my good friend, @aine ~ I think that you and your family has far more to lose by divorcing than by reconciliation! As of now, both of you are confirmed cheaters, and it is contingent upon you to get into MC right away with a new counselor! It may well help that the both of you can relocate from where you are to some locale that might afford you a fresh start at renewing your marriage by rigorous unprejudiced therapy!

And if for some reason, all of that doesn't exactly work out, then you both may pursue the divorce angle and at least say that you honestly tried!

I wish you well!*


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Idk it sounds pretty bad.

One thing to know -neither route - R or D - need be permanent.

If you do D you have recourse to start a new relationship with your W. I sometimes wonder if that isn't a better option - it ends the failed marriage and allows each to court and start something new. Both have eyes wide open. And if a couple does remarry then the new marriage starts off clean. And either can walk away - so it forces both to work to understand and meet the other's needs.

I suspect the financial and legal ramifications of D are too great for more to consider this option.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're seeing some progress with the therapy, what's the hurry? See where it takes you.


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## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

aine, 
It was the wrong thing to do as I admitted. But since you ask, yes, it did make me feel better in some ways. When I found out my wife had an affair I feared being alone forever. I felt unattractive and inadequate. I know other men who got divorced and spend nearly every night alone watching TV, bored, lonely and depressed. I had nightmares of sitting on my couch watching a computer hoping my kids would skype with me so I would not feel so alone. In my dreams the never did. My fear of being alone and lonely were earth shattering. I could not think straight and I panicked when I did not know where my wife was. So when I found a woman who I thought would do something fun with my wife and I, which my wife and I talked about, I felt good. My wife was also telling me to go have an affair. Someone found me attractive and interesting. She was very pretty and gave me a lot of attention. So it made me feel better. It would be better if I had found confidence another way, of course, but I found it nonetheless and I can think more clearly now that I am not afraid of ending up alone. Plus the sex was great fun. But it was ultimately destructive to our attempt to recover. I won't do it again. 

Arbitrator,
Skype is our only option for therapy. I live on a small island in the Pacific. There are no legitimate counselors here. Why do think I need a new counselor? I am not unhappy with the one we have and my wife likes her. We've met together via Skype weekly, except one week when my wife was sick and once when I got called into court at the last minute. Then we did individual sessions.


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## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

Release2016,
I do not know. Some days I really want to build our marriage back to where I thought it was. Other days, I struggle just to go through the motions and do what I ought to do. Sometimes I want to divorce and try to do so as amicably as possible. Sometimes I want to just crawl into a hole and die. It is a roller coaster right now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

asgdf said:


> Sometimes I want to just crawl into a hole and die.


How do you think she feels when she thinks about you and your bartender? She was alone in a new place and unhappy and got snookered by a known ladies' man with a long string of notches on his belt who appealed to a lonely married woman in a strange country whose husband was busy growing his career. You just went out and screwed a woman so you could hurt your wife.

So on top of having an abusive mother whose abuse she's now having to relive through therapy, she is still alone in a strange country, full of shame over what she did, totally subservient to you now, and stuck with chlamydia so she'll always get to carry the shame around. Oh, and remember what her husband did.


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## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> How do you think she feels when she thinks about you and your bartender? She was alone in a new place and unhappy and got snookered by a known ladies' man with a long string of notches on his belt who appealed to a lonely married woman in a strange country whose husband was busy growing his career. You just went out and screwed a woman so you could hurt your wife.
> 
> So on top of having an abusive mother whose abuse she's now having to relive through therapy, she is still alone in a strange country, full of shame over what she did, totally subservient to you now, and stuck with chlamydia so she'll always get to carry the shame around. Oh, and remember what her husband did.


I think she feels pretty ****ty when she thinks about me and the woman I slept with. I think she knows that we had 14 years of a pretty good marriage and she screwed it up by having an affair for a few months, contracting a disease, lying to me, then encouraging me to pick up another woman, then rejecting me when I did, and now having to know that I followed through with it anyway. For the record I didn't do it just so I could hurt my wife. I also did it because I was hurt and this woman gave me pleasure and confidence and appreciated me. I don't know where you got the idea she is totally subservient to me. We are trying to work things out. I never wanted or encouraged her to be subservient. I want and encourage her to be my equal and always have. Chlamydia is easily curable so she is not stuck with it. Basically it goes away in a week with antibiotics. 

Maybe I should spend more time thinking about her feelings. I talk with her everyday about it. We are going to counseling and whatever the counselor suggests, I do. Should I just forgive and pretend like it never happened? Try to be a better husband and hope she doesn't get swept up by the next womanizer that crosses her path? 

I should not have had an affair too. I know this. What am I supposed to do with your judgmental response? I posted here hoping to get help from people more experienced at 'considering divorce and separation.' If you want to berate me or lecture me about how insensitive I am go right ahead. Have at me. I know I messed up too. But I'd prefer to get helpful advice, maybe chat with people who have been through this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> How do you think she feels when she thinks about you and your bartender? She was alone in a new place and unhappy and got snookered by a known ladies' man with a long string of notches on his belt who appealed to a lonely married woman in a strange country whose husband was busy growing his career. You just went out and screwed a woman so you could hurt your wife.
> 
> So on top of having an abusive mother whose abuse she's now having to relive through therapy, she is still alone in a strange country, full of shame over what she did, totally subservient to you now, and stuck with chlamydia so she'll always get to carry the shame around. Oh, and remember what her husband did.


The clap can be cured, he's admitted he's wrong (I know myself how embarrassed, unwanted, insecure, etc. etc. I felt when I found out my wife cheated behind my back multiple times.....) and says it will stop, and he was not the initial cheater. AND his wife TOLD him to have an affair. Does this mitigate the circumstances somewhat? We all know it's to ease her own rotten conscience. She got "snookered"????????
LOL, I just don't know about that one. Can men use the "snookered" excuse? 

I got snookered, wife. She was so hot and seduced me..... It's not my fault....
Uggh.

Anyway, I don't condone his behavior, but I understand it.......

Either way, he is in a better position mentally to handle this, as he has stated. 

OP, if your wife is truly remorseful, and you still love her, give it a chance. Wait until the rollercoaster subsides. It will, eventually. It's never wise to make decisions when your emotions are all over the place. You can decide to divorce anytime. No hurry there.

Honestly, there's no perfect husbands or wives. My wife cheated with cybersex and sending nude photos and such. Probably physically also. I would have liked it if she'd have shown some remorse and I had a chance to make things right on my end with her, as far as how I personally handled myself during our 14 year marriage. I didn't do anything really bad, but not a huge amount really good, either.

You may have that chance to reconcile. Divorce when one has children is not easy on adults, and it does make things really rough for kids.

Take some time and think about it.
Good luck.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You mentioned you had two children with her and she had two adult children from a previous relationship. Why did that relationship end? What is your relationship history. Finally what are your ages?


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## asgdf (Sep 22, 2013)

we are in our 40s. I am a few years younger than her. Her first marriage was brief. I think she got married after getting pregnant. They divorced soon after the twins were born. They were poor and lived in her parents house and fought all the time. Her mother encouraged him to leave. He felt bad being a father with very little money. He cheated and moved in with an ex girlfriend. I came along 8 years later or so. SHe had not been in a serious relationship between husbands. I had dated a girl in for under a year in college but no other relationships worth mentioning.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

asgdf said:


> Release2016,
> I do not know. Some days I really want to build our marriage back to where I thought it was. Other days, I struggle just to go through the motions and do what I ought to do. Sometimes I want to divorce and try to do so as amicably as possible. Sometimes I want to just crawl into a hole and die. It is a roller coaster right now.


I think this is perfectly normal, you will go through many ups and downs. It might be worthwhile to make up a list as a reminder of why you should and want to stay the course at least for a prefixed period of time. if after that time then you can both agree to call it quits, but giving it a shot will not be easy. There will be triggers, bad days, etc. But if you leave the marriage, there will also be bad days.... don't forget that.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

You both needs individual help. It is going to take a great deal of forgiveness on both sides to make this marriage work. I personally could not forgive my husband. Cheating, for me, is the ultimate line in the sand that you do not cross no matter what.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You should combine both of your threads.


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