# she is kicking me out :(



## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

after almost 20 years married, and and more than 25 years since i've known her. She is kicking me out. She asked me to move out. We got to know each other in high school, and started out as friends, i looked at her no more than a little sister (she was a year younger than me), and there wasn't anything romantic, but one day, she played a song for me that seemed to make me think that i had a chance with her - and the rest is history. 3 kids later, this happened.

In many ways, i blame the kids (i feel really bad for saying this, as i really love them), but since they arrived, i have felt that i lost my wife. Everything is about them, everything about them comes first. I felt like a poor second fiddle. All the while, i was working my ass off at work, and trying to make sure i was making enough for the family. But i'm getting ahead of myself.

18 years ago, we moved here, she was very supportive, encouraging me to take this new job, telling me that she really didn't have much where we were (her parents broke up when she was 8, and her dad passed on a couple of years before we moved, her mum and her have this wierd relationship where they would go into a cold war and not talk to each other for months, then suddenly talk, and it's like nothing happened, her brother and sisters have super complex lives, none of them made it out of high school, she is the only one that made it through university). When the time came close to moving, she wanted to stay for a few more months, as it was when her bonus was to be paid, looking back, i was selfish, as i was starting out in a new place, and couldn't see myself doing this without her by my side, so i insisted that she leave her job and skip the bonus... so began our journey...it was great at first, while she wasn't too happy to miss out on the money, she was happy to be away from her complex family, and her stressful job. She took this opportunity to pull back a bit, and relax, she learnt to drive, started to explore, and started to find interests which she had never imagined she would have time to indulge in (crafting). As i was starting a new career, i did what i could to encourage her new found interests, and was happy she was doing something she loved, vs something she had to do to survive. Soon, my income was enough to support both of us comfortably, and we decided to move from our apartment to a nice mid-sized house. This is where we had our first kids, twins! total surprise! gave me fever when i saw the ultrasound (till this day i have no idea why) The pregnancy was quite tough, and she gained a ton of weight, but she was generally happy. Then the kids arrived, and everything seemed to change. First mistake, i decided to take the paternity (after the bad advice of colleagues) a few months after the kids arrives, i also complained a little when her mum was here for the first month after the birth of the twins, where i was longing for some alone time with the family without her mum being around. Her mum was also odd, as while she was enjoying the time with the babies, was always wanting to go back as she wanted to take care of her son... they even argued while her mum was here, so i thought it was best that i hastened her mum's departure... 

When her mum left, she apparently fell into depression, something i never knew until the last few years when she started to remind me about the time i didn't take paternity, and chased her mum home. There was apparently an incident where she was so distraught that she locked the twins crying in the store, while she felt helpless outside. She apparently had called me, and i had waved her off... on her first mothers day, i also don't know what got into me, she had apparently asked me what i was getting her for mothers day, and i can't remember why i said it, but i had apprently said "you aren't my mother"... which hurt her tremendously - and while i've been trying to make up for it every other mothers day, it remains a huge sore point for her.

So the problem with me is that i have a terrible memory, i don't know why, but i tend not to remember anything overly emotional... or i just forget details. To remember stuff at work, i have to work very hard at it, and it's clear i drop the effort when i get home. All i am recounting is actually based on her reminding me on what wrong i have done in her life... but its clear, my frustration had been building at the same time - with her priorities on the kids, i felt more alone than ever, and since we were so busy feeding, changing, fighting the lack of sleep with the kids, it was a daze, and there was never really an opportunity to talk about it - she is also the kind that is instantly defensive when i bring up the fact that i feel neglected - always saying - how can i compare myself to a baby, baby is helpless, adults can fend for yourself.  it was especially tough, as i was working really hard, as i was seeing an opportunity to get ahead, and do well at work - i may have just decided to overcompenstate and focus on work.

fast forward a couple of years, the house was filling up - mostly with baby stuff, she had bought so much clothes for the kids, cute clothes, but they were piling up, the toys - i always think that because she had a tough childhood with her dad leaving at such a young age, she was trying to overcompensate with her attention on the kids, 2 years after the twins, out of the blue, she decided we should try for another, and wala, we got another. this time i took the paternity immediately, we had her younger brother fly out with her mum, as we didn't want her mum travelling alone, he was between jobs, so it seemed like a good idea. Except he smokes, and while he was nice enough to smoke outdoors, the smoked still leaked into the house. He also refused to sleep in the guest room with her mum (on seperate beds) and made our living room his home... i got annoyed first with losing the living room, then smelling smoke, i told her about my annoyance, which led to her fighting with her brother, and he decided to leave suddenly... when he left, her mum got worried, and shortly after decided to leave as well. She blames me for driving a wedge with her brother  

the 3rd kid was a lot of fun, but again, the clothes and toys started to pile up, it got so bad that one of the spare bedrooms was full of stuff that we couldn't even walk in... my solution - let's buy a bigger house, at this point, i was doing well enough at work that i felt we deserved a bigger place. She was not supportive, keeps telling me that i was the person that wanted to move, not her. unfortunately, we had to move further out, so that we can actually afford something nice and large - but it was further away from town then she liked, the only saving grace, was the school district was really good. 

There were complications in selling our old place, buyer was going to back out last minute, at this point, i had already got a mortgage and knew i couldn't afford 2 places, so she devised a plan to help convince the buyer to go through with the purchase - it worked. I was pretty distraught by the experience, and also terrifically busy at work, so much so that i didn't plan well for the eventual move. Something she keeps reminding me - that i took very few days off to pack, and then when the movers came, had to panic pack, and move - something she tells me that she is super embarrased by..

so we move in, and i'm still busy, so i felt less pressure to unpack, but she kept hounding me about boxes being in this room and that - that i didn't care about unpacking... couple of months into the move, i kinda snapped at her, and called her a ***** for nagging at me so much. This was apparently (to her), the first sign that something was wrong, that how could i call her names, did i not respect her as she didn't work and wasn't making money? it took us quite a while, and alot of apologizing from my part for her to seem to get over it (but it didn't really go away, while i forget easily, she never forgets, never). 2 years ago, i was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, first thing she tells, "i told you not to drink so much soda/juice", of course, she follows up with kind words like "let's figure out what to cook etc". I was pretty sad at getting this, but later found out that my dad had it too, and it could be genetic.. that said, i started to change my entire diet - but it was hard trying to do that without impacting the family - mainly cos we usually eat white rice, and now i couldn't... so she felt stressed trying to figure out what to cook (even though, i usually do the cooking). In the meantime, our huge house was filling up with stuff again, stuff for the kids, crafting... i'd admit, i like my gadgets, so i contributed as well, but not to the extent as her and the kids. Kids are also super messy... we got so much legos for them, that they took over the formal living room - its full of legos, the basement is full of toys, her craftroom is full of craft supplies... to the point here we don't have anything over as we are too embarrassed at the state of the home.. We lived this ways for a couple of years... soon it was 5 years in this new house, and it was chok full of stuff... something happened last year... likely work stress brought home, but i snapped again, this time i threw some plates and broke the rice cooker, i can't remember the details, but i know i snapped really badly, i wonder if it was the blood sugar at work, and i even hurt myself. I scared her, the kids, and i sought therapy, and it didn't really help resolve anything for me - it seemed to be frustration - as i felt i couldn't talk to her or get through... after some months things got back to normal (or so it seems), we got caught up in life, kids... etc

a week ago, just before our twins field trip to another state, one morning, i snapped again, it started with me cooking breakfast that the kids complained about, and she piled on. Apparently she wasn't happy that i had moved a vacuum cleaner over her stuff the night before, and it boiled over. I felt insulted about the food situation - having toiled in the morning to get stuff for everything to eat.. and i felt it was delicious!  so i was kind frustrated and acting up - while trying to clear the diswasher, i was having problems putting a pot away into a packed shelf, and asked her to help as she had a way of doing it... she complained loudly how useless i was at this, and i couldn't even get the simpliest thing done and no one helps her with clearning the house... i snapped, i told her that if it wasn't for her filling up the house, perhaps we would all not be so stressed, she went into a tizzy, immediately taking up bags and filling it with stuff (her laptop, craft supplies, etc) and made a beeline for the door to throw them out - i went after her, and in trying to catch her, managed to shove heroff balance (she didn't fall), she stopped, glared at me, and yelled "how dare you!" "how dare you lay a finger on me!" and on and on....realizing my mistake, i immediately apologized, but the damage had been done... she told me that it's a felony what i've done, that she hates me for doing it, that even her dad who left never did this to her mum etc... but i think what compounds it is that i hurt her really bad by saying that she cluttered up the home...

so here i am a week later, apologizing every opportunity i get - that she has asked me to leave, or she would leave herself. I am starting to look at placed, but i'm heartbroken... i don't know what to do... i worry that leaving would mean she would spiral even more... i don't want to lose her - but she insists with the shove i have.... i have a great career now, just got promoted again, but it's all joyless as the homefront is crumbling... i love my kids, and i never blame them for taking my wife away, but i could never really understand how she can give me up in a heartbeat for the the kids. 

i don't know why i am writing this down, perhaps i don't want to forget... but i am not looking forward to leaving the family, and losing her... she doesn't believe in counseling... she doesn't think she has any issues, but it's all me, lack of respect, control.... perhaps i am really a bad person...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She cannot kick you out of your house. It is your legal residence and your children live there. Don't move out. If you need to just move to another room for right now.

You were wrong in pushing her, or whatever it was that you did. You apologized. I assume this is the only time you have done something like that. Is that right?

if she wants to leave, she can. But do not let her take the children. See a lawyer to find out how to prevent her from removing the children from their home.

You cooked breakfast and your children complained? Really? And she backed them up? Wow, that's bad parenting on her part. A parent cocks, the children eat and tell the parents thank you. That kind of disrespect should never be tolerated.

I suggest that you get into individual counseling right away because you need some help in handling what is going down. You need to get ahold of yourself so that you do not act out like that gain. She needs to do the same, but right now you need to concentrate on yourself and your children.

I also suggest that you get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you all the time while you are at home and around her. It sounds like she's looking for any reason she can to get you removed from the home. Don't give her a reason. Stay calm. And have a recording of everything so that you have poof that you did not do anything if she calls the police on you .


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Thanks for reading my long post... i think my moving out may be the best way to give her the space she needs... also, i think the kids need her more than me - she drives them back from school, and she makes lunches for them.. i can do the lunch thing, but not the driving as i'm at work which is about 30-40mins away  

yes, i've never pushed her before, and i surprised myself even, i think i was trying to grab her arm, and couldn't and pushed instead  she insists that what i've done is a crime..

i went to therapy the last time (when i threw plates and broke the rice cooker), it didn't help, i felt like i was pouring my heart out to a stranger, and i didn't get anything back apart from "get her to come see me too..." 

i'm not going to record her - i don't think she is malicious, i think she is messed up, i think i am too... what is sad is that i'm doing well at work - but failing miserably at home...

i just don't know how to cope with it - i've never been away from my family for any extended time... even with business trips, i call home everyday, and text... this is going to be so hard...

i don't get why she can just decide it's over... i did read your 180 post... it's good advice, i don't know if i can go through with it though... 25 years... sigh. how do i tell the kids? how do i not scar them like what her parents did to her? my parents are still happily married, and i really respect them for staying together even through they had some trying times... oh, as my wife also hates my parents (she thinks they are shallow), i don't talk to them as much in the last 10 years or so... they have also only seen the grandkids perhaps once every year...

sigh.


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## Despairing (Apr 18, 2017)

Have you 2 spent some time just the 2 of you since the children came onto the scene? I know how much effort and energy children take up but it sounds like you've both forgotten why you got together in the first place and just let things be and carry on as normal and now it's escalated into this... of course it's going to be hard... I'm going through stuff now and I don't want things to end after 4 years of marriage, I can't imagine what you must be feeling after 25 years being together!

Can you 2 go somewhere 'neutral' and talk with no distractions for a while? Or are you accepting that it's over now...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*First, get yourself to your MD for a thorough medical checkup! There may be something that they can give you that can assist with your recurrent medical condition!

Having said that, then plan a "Come to Jesus Meeting" together at some locale other than your home!

But even more importantly, do not leave your home under any circumstances! Unless you physically abuse her or others present there, she would literally "play hell" in having you evicted from your very own home, even if she were to enlist the help of legal counsel!*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I come from a different culture where paternity leave doesn't exist and SAHM's are expected to handle the child rearing and run the entire household while their husbands work. Cooking, cleaning, errands, repairs, etc. are generally thought of as the responsibility of the SAHP. Where I live, moving to a new house means packing your own stuff, renting a moving truck, filling it with all of your belongings yourself, driving it to your new location, removing your own belongings, and then unpacking the boxes as soon as the furniture is in place. I don't even know anyone who had a baby and had family come to help. From my point of view, your wife has been pampered and lacks appreciation for the lifestyle you have provided her.

Were I you, I wouldn't leave. She's unhappy, she can leave. On her own dime, too. Let her spend some time doing it all on her own...kids, work, house, bills, repairs, etc. Let her have a real taste of life without you. Maybe she"ll learn to appreciate what you do for her. If she doesn't, there are plenty of great women who would.


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## ResignedWife (Jan 20, 2017)

Is your wife a hoarder? You mentioned that in your old place there was a bedroom so full of stuff you couldn't go in there. That implies hoarding. If so, then THAT needs to be addressed in counseling as well. She is unhappy about SOMEthing and it is causing her to be a hoarder.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

ResignedWife said:


> Is your wife a hoarder? You mentioned that in your old place there was a bedroom so full of stuff you couldn't go in there. That implies hoarding. If so, then THAT needs to be addressed in counseling as well. She is unhappy about SOMEthing and it is causing her to be a hoarder.


I have wondered about this before. But she never believes in seeking help for herself. She is so strong willed that she thinks everyone but her has the problem. For the stuff, she tells me that I was complicit by encouraging her to buy them, but then also complicit when I didn't create time for her to clean it.. mainly cos she doesn't have off days such that she can... it's all a roundabout conversation, no time, no cleanup, husbands fault... she also loves to use history to crush me, whereas I can't remember the past well  she never was this bad, the kids arrival really changed everything... i'm not sure why... I'm so heartbroken


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Despairing said:


> Have you 2 spent some time just the 2 of you since the children came onto the scene? I know how much effort and energy children take up but it sounds like you've both forgotten why you got together in the first place and just let things be and carry on as normal and now it's escalated into this... of course it's going to be hard... I'm going through stuff now and I don't want things to end after 4 years of marriage, I can't imagine what you must be feeling after 25 years being together!
> 
> Can you 2 go somewhere 'neutral' and talk with no distractions for a while? Or are you accepting that it's over now...


Before they turned 14, we never went out alone without them. Even when their grandparents were over, we would do some grocery run, and she would end up feeling worried about leaving the kids at home. In the last couple of years I've tried to engage her when we go to Starbucks for coffee in the mornings alone, but she is not that conversational in the morning. Her claim, the morning is when social media heats up for crafting and she'd rather be doing that... I'm very devastated. So sorry that you are going through this as well.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *
> But even more importantly, do not leave your home under any circumstances! Unless you physically abuse her or others present there, she would literally "play hell" in having you evicted from your very own home, even if she were to enlist the help of legal counsel!*


 I don't want her to leave the home, and she doesn't want me around if she doesn't leave. I'm pretty much between a rock and a hard place. I'm thinking a little distance may help, but are you folks saying it will not? Why does legal help matter here? Would I be perceived as abandoning the family by a judge if it came to that?

With a few months left in the school year for the kids, my thinking is that instead of disrupting their routine, I'm just breaking the vicious cycle at home now by leaving, is this wrong? Help


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She can't kick you out, it's YOUR house that you bought. Don't let her bully you into thinking that you are at fault. I've gone thorough all of this before and I know what you're going through. First is that in her mind she will constantly blame you for taking her away from her family, she may not say that but she thinks it. Second, she shouldn't be a SAHM. I don't know what it is but they always end up getting bossy and try to take over everything. She was just waiting for you to do something even remotely out of line so she could blame you and get you to move out. I would suggest that you make her to start working again. She needs time away from the house and the kids and to stop blaming you for everything. 

You need to take charge of the family again and stop letting her blame you for everything. Tell her flatly there's no way you're even going to consider moving out. I don't need to remind you how much of a bind you would be in financially if she divorced you. She's settled in the marriage, she has the kids she wants, a big house and doesn't have to work. Life is great, for HER. I think what she wants is to get rid of you and move her mom and brother back in. Since you would have to pay for the house and everything else, her life would be perfect. Getting you to move out is step one to put her plan into effect. Don't let her do it. 

I think at this point it would be valuable for you to talk to a lawyer about what your legal position is in the marriage and about what your wife can and can't do. 

I hope things get better for you. These days, for men in this position it's usually doesn't end well.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I don't want her to leave the home, and she doesn't want me around if she doesn't leave. I'm pretty much between a rock and a hard place. I'm thinking a little distance may help, but are you folks saying it will not? Why does legal help matter here? Would I be perceived as abandoning the family by a judge if it came to that?
> 
> With a few months left in the school year for the kids, my thinking is that instead of disrupting their routine, I'm just breaking the vicious cycle at home now by leaving, is this wrong? Help


*Contingent upon what state or jurisdiction that you live in, it could be construed as abandonment ~ that's why it's so important to intricately know those legal "in's and outs!" That's why it is imperative that you visit with an accomplished family law attorney before ever considering leaving your domicile!*


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I have wondered about this before. But she never believes in seeking help for herself. She is so strong willed that she thinks everyone but her has the problem. For the stuff, she tells me that I was complicit by encouraging her to buy them, but then also complicit when I didn't create time for her to clean it.. mainly cos she doesn't have off days such that she can... it's all a roundabout conversation, no time, no cleanup, husbands fault... she also loves to use history to crush me, whereas I can't remember the past well  she never was this bad, the kids arrival really changed everything... i'm not sure why... I'm so heartbroken


These are all symptoms of what a SAHM eventually becomes: strong willed, bossy, always make everything her husbands fault, never cleans anything. I went through the same thing and it hurts went another guy has to go through all that crap.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

What struck me..between the ears, was the detail of your recollection, of your very-long dirty-laundry list..... of slights aimed your wife. 

You seem to have memorized these things. And you have an excuse for all of them. This is not unique, humans do this to assuage their quilt. They rationalize their own bad behavior.

You sound bitter and you sound petty. You got your digs in [to her] at every opportunity.

To me, you are forever on edge, You are hyper-critical. You are not forgiving of others [normal] idiosyncrasies. Your thin skin tingles and quivers at the slightest of irritation and you lash out.

You are HIGH MAINTENANCE, having a personality that very few can work around, work with, work through.

Just sayin'.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You might want to consider this approach, OP:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Do not leave your house. If she is unhappy, then she can leave. 

You are both to blame here. Her for being a helicopter mom, and you for being checked out. I have never seen anyone post here and blame their kids for the issues in their marriage. You BOTH have failed each other in this marriage by not prioritizing each other. How can you expect to be effective parents when you arent even partners? Do you love her? Because in reading your posts, it honestly doesnt sound like it. I dont think you meant to push her that one time, to be honest, I think she overreacted. 

Get into counseling, and DO NOT LEAVE.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> These are all symptoms of what a SAHM eventually becomes: strong willed, bossy, always make everything her husbands fault, never cleans anything. I went through the same thing and it hurts went another guy has to go through all that crap.


I agree, there may be some truth to this.
........................................................................................................................................
However, his handy work is evident here, also. He struck her anvil.

He fired up the forge....white hot. In went his wife, from a poisonous past, into *an incompatible marriage*.

He hardened her heart and her resolve. *It may be that she WAS inclined to this sort of behavior* and his alloy melded to hers was a toxic mix of steel and bile.

Doomed to a brittle future. One too many slams....the marriage breaks. 

That day has arrived....the union is broken.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How's the sex? Are you two meeting each other's needs? I didn't see any mention of intimacy, so I'm guessing it's zero? Do you really have a marriage or just roommates trying to make it to the next day?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I agree with your wife- you need to take your angry outbursts very seriously and get help. Your marriage will not improve until you decide to no longer have angry outbursts. They are killing the love your wife has for you and making her feel unsafe with you. 

I suggest you leave for a few weeks and stay in a motel or similar while enrolling and beginning treatment for your anger. If your wife sees you taking responsibility for your problem, she may consider having you rejoin the family if you can prove to her that you will continue treatment as long as you need. 

There is no excuse for throwing/breaking things and scaring your wife and children. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

As everyone says you have both reached limits with each other, you both need to take time out. You do not have to move out of the house, just do a temporary in house separation.

Explain this to your wife, that this is your home, your kids and you are not moving out, but will agree to take time out. 
Sometimes when there is so much conflict, resentment, etc it is better to agree not to talk about the problems as they are too sensitive and raw for you both. In other words take some days/weeks to calm down so that you can both be more rational.
Try and formulate the things in your head that need to be discussed, ask her to think about the things she wants to discuss and when things are calmer sit down and do so. If possible consider MC.
For now do the 180 on her, act calm, nice but firm. Refuse to discuss anything to do with emotions, or anything that would trigger an argument.
Sometimes due to the arguments, resentment the couple cannot see or hear each other properly.

Pls get MC


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

like almost everyone is saying, you need some anger management and counseling.

having said that, unless your actions are really more harsh and abusive than they sound, your wife does not
have moral cause to kick you out. both of you need to work this thing out.
my view is that you don't break up a marriage over things that can be rectified.

i don't see any mortal sins here, at least from what iv'e heard.


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

I agree. Neither of you should move out. it sounds like separate bedrooms (for now) and giving each other space is good enough for now but only until you both have been able to move past this conflict. She may remember every detail over the years and you may forget but that may just be the product of gender and station in life. The point is that she said her piece and you apologized and it's time to move forward. You two need to choose to move past the hurt and communicate. Moving out would prohibit this. Instead you likely need MC. 

I think that she did overreact in this but she knows that you have a temper as you say she forgets NOTHING and so likely this had been boiling up for years and created one moment where the perfect storm happened and you both lost control. Likely, she's scared that she will set you off again and doesn't want that. FWIW it doesn't sound like you're abusive, just neglectful but have anger management issues. Maybe she feels you don't do enough around the house. Maybe you have anger management issues. I don't know for sure but clearly seeking out IC would help and hopefully look like an effort on your part. 

BTW, how old are the kids? Are they old enough to look after each other? After 20 years I hope so. If that's the case, then both of you need to make efforts in learning how to be a couple again and do things together without the kids in tow. Maybe it's also time you worked less and your wife took a PT job at someplace like Michael's or something too. I know that as a SAHP myself being stuck at home breeds loneliness and frustration.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Likely the hoarding situation is increasing the tension around the house. This is a symptom of a much larger issue, which needs addressed. There are professional organizers that can come in and give direction on how to clean up & organize. Also address this issue in therapy as well. If it’s bad, it’s just a matter of time before authorities get involved.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> These are all symptoms of what a SAHM eventually becomes: strong willed, bossy, always make everything her husbands fault, never cleans anything. I went through the same thing and it hurts when another guy has to go through all that crap.


*Damn, JB! I didn't know that you had been foolin' around with my RSXW!

In her case, she was a SAHM who richly(no pun intended)lived off of her many investments and horse trading interests!

Although wealthy, she was too damned cheap to hire a housekeeper except before Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas! There were places in that house that were so damned nasty, it would make a buzzard with a cast iron stomach puke! If it ever got cleaned, it was by me! Her rotten dropout dopehead kids had dirty dishes stacked up in their rooms, and if I ever started to bring them down and clean them up, I caught sheer hell from her because she said that "I was only enabling them!"

She was bossier than hell and was just one mean witch who, as I sadly found out later, absolutely loved to rattle other men's bones whenever she hit the road on business!

Now I don't rightfully know about them, but if she wasn't serviced just right, you could literally hear the creaking gates of hell open up!*


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

m00nman said:


> BTW, how old are the kids? Are they old enough to look after each other? After 20 years I hope so. If that's the case, then both of you need to make efforts in learning how to be a couple again and do things together without the kids in tow. Maybe it's also time you worked less and your wife took a PT job at someplace like Michael's or something too. I know that as a SAHP myself being stuck at home breeds loneliness and frustration.


Agree 100%. Once all kids are in full time school, there is no longer a need for a SAHP, especially one who doesnt even look after the home. (I equate hoarding to not taking care of your home) She needs to get out and get a job. She also needs to remember she has a husband.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I know where you were coming from with the kids being responsible for the demise of your marriage. It's not true, you and your wife are 100% responsible for this. 

Just because you become parents doesn't mean to forget to fill each other's needs! Marriage vows do state to forsake all others for your partner; that includes the kids. You both created a huge crack in your marriage. All her focus went to the kids, house, her hobbies etc. You were pretty much out on your own at that point. Instead of taking action by maybe having to lose everything and in the end gain it all, you drove yourself into work and further alienated yourself from the family you formed.

Sadly, I did the same with the exception that my X husband was your wife and I was you. He made me look and feel like a terrible mother for wanting attention from him when he had to give it all to the kids because they were small and needed him more. That was pure BS and I ate that **** sandwich whole as did you. I started filling in that void too. I worked full time, took another part time job teaching adult classes to women who needed to go back into the work force due to spousal abuse. The shelter and my teaching job took most of my time and left little time for anything else. I loved my kids, but my now X took over that role for almost everything and I allowed it. The only thing I always did, was be the disciplinarian of the two. He was the fun parent. I was the nagging one that wanted them to clean up, finish homework, go to bed early, shower, brush their teeth etc. He was the one that made tents out of sheets, ate on the floor while watching TV and leaving a royal mess everywhere. Oh yes, he didn't have much growing up, so my kids had all the toys money could buy. We did have that: money to buy all kinds of ****.



Looking back and after years of therapy, that right there was the beginning of the end of my marriage because I did the worst thing I could have done to fix what was starting to become what was going to end the marriage 19 years later. 

Looks like it may be the same for you, but hopefully not. My marriage finally ended when my X hit midlife and went into full crisis mode. He ran off into the sunset in a silver mustang convertible with a sleazy girl 17 years younger and I had to divorce him in order for him not to take the house, kids college funds, savings and everything else he could.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you leave now, without legal counsel, without some sort of document in place, you will live to regret your decision.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Giving her space without legal aide will kick you in the arse dude! A lawyer will let you know if she can legally claim you abandoned them instead of giving her "space". 

Your wife looks the type to throw you under the bus anytime she can. That is how detached you two have gotten. I don't see where giving her more space will have a positive effect in your marriage. It's more like visually seeing just how far away from each other you two truly were. 

Do the kids even miss you? Do they want daddy to come back home? Did you lose them too?

Looks like walking away and facing what is truly wrong is the way you work on things. That was me too for a long time. I woke up too late, hopefully you can do better since there is no third person in the mix yet.

You two need to date and get to fall in love with one another again. That has been numbed up for way too long. It may be blossomed again. That is where your focus needs to go if you want you family back. You gotta start with your partner dude. You have to win the babies back too if they are siding with mom to leave you out.

I got my babies back and they love me and always did. Dad, not so much. He is still fun in a different way. He buys them with money instead of toys now. They see right through him now. Mommy was the stable, tough loving type of parent. The one that wasn't their best bud and left them when they had to make their own lives and dad seeked a different best bud in OW.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

SunCMars said:


> What struck me..between the ears, was the detail of your recollection, of your very-long dirty-laundry list..... of slights aimed your wife.
> 
> You seem to have memorized these things. And you have an excuse for all of them. This is not unique, humans do this to assuage their quilt. They rationalize their own bad behavior.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the tough talk here, i need it. As my username says, i'm usually more confused and lost, and i usually don't know what to do next. I do admit, i have a temper which i bottle up, and it comes out in the worst of times. note that everything i have recounted have been repeated over and over again by her - by my nature, i don't remember details. Also, one thing that she says about me is interesting - and perhaps true, she calls me a fair weather friend, that i'm there for all the happy times, but not there for the tough times - in this case, the tough times are when she is unhappy and i'm clueless about it.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

jld said:


> You might want to consider this approach, OP:
> 
> Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


wow, this is an excellent article, i'm still working my way through it, but it has some good stuff - i can identify with almost everything in there, in trying to explain my actions, i have dug a deeper hole, and i keep doing it - i just don't acknowledge her issues. wow - thanks for pointing me to this.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> Do not leave your house. If she is unhappy, then she can leave.
> 
> You are both to blame here. Her for being a helicopter mom, and you for being checked out. I have never seen anyone post here and blame their kids for the issues in their marriage. You BOTH have failed each other in this marriage by not prioritizing each other. How can you expect to be effective parents when you arent even partners? Do you love her? Because in reading your posts, it honestly doesnt sound like it. I dont think you meant to push her that one time, to be honest, I think she overreacted.
> 
> Get into counseling, and DO NOT LEAVE.


i tried theraphy after my plate throwing incident - i didn't feel it helped. I just sat there and poured out my feelings to a stranger, i went 3 times, and i didn't feel better, or felt i got any good advice, the therapist just kept saying that i should bring my wife in to also talk to him, but i told him several times it wouldn't work, how does a successful counseling work? how interactive should i expect the counselor to be? 

Also, thanks for your comment - yes, i agree, we both have failed.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> How's the sex? Are you two meeting each other's needs? I didn't see any mention of intimacy, so I'm guessing it's zero? Do you really have a marriage or just roommates trying to make it to the next day?


its been few and far between - the interesting thing is that there are weeks in the month where things are a bit better between us, but if we miss that window (Eg. i'm stressed from work etc) then it doesn't happen. In addition, the type 2 has impacted my performance quite a bit... which lends to the stress of intimacy.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> I agree with your wife- you need to take your angry outbursts very seriously and get help. Your marriage will not improve until you decide to no longer have angry outbursts. They are killing the love your wife has for you and making her feel unsafe with you.
> 
> I suggest you leave for a few weeks and stay in a motel or similar while enrolling and beginning treatment for your anger. If your wife sees you taking responsibility for your problem, she may consider having you rejoin the family if you can prove to her that you will continue treatment as long as you need.
> 
> ...


thanks for giving me this perspective - there is no excuse for the behavior.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

aine said:


> As everyone says you have both reached limits with each other, you both need to take time out. You do not have to move out of the house, just do a temporary in house separation.
> 
> Explain this to your wife, that this is your home, your kids and you are not moving out, but will agree to take time out.


thanks, i will try this - I do think this is a better arrangement.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> like almost everyone is saying, you need some anger management and counseling.
> 
> having said that, unless your actions are really more harsh and abusive than they sound, your wife does not
> have moral cause to kick you out. both of you need to work this thing out.
> ...


yes, i agree. I too think that everything must have a recourse, or a way to forgiveness, she doesn't, and it kills me everytime she says it - perhaps the 180 is right, engaging on the emotional level in this time only digs a deeper rut, as the hurt is there, and the vengeance is painful.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Do not leave your home. 
Do not leave your home. 
Do not leave YOUR home. 

Get a lawyer.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

m00nman said:


> BTW, how old are the kids? Are they old enough to look after each other? After 20 years I hope so. If that's the case, then both of you need to make efforts in learning how to be a couple again and do things together without the kids in tow. Maybe it's also time you worked less and your wife took a PT job at someplace like Michael's or something too. I know that as a SAHP myself being stuck at home breeds loneliness and frustration.


they are just finishing junior high and will go to high school next year, the youngest will start jr high as well. As for working less, i've always told her that i would love to switch roles, as it would be a great change from the stress in the corporate world, where putting up appearances is key. She dismisses this as a disrespect for the role she has at home - "so you think what i do is that easy huh?" - i guess i misread her call out of help here as well 

Right now, i'm torn, i could quit the job, scale way back, but i'm not sure she wants that either. I actually don't think she knows what she wants other than me out of the house.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Jessica38 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with your wife- you need to take your angry outbursts very seriously and get help. Your marriage will not improve until you decide to no longer have angry outbursts. They are killing the love your wife has for you and making her feel unsafe with you.
> ...



I want to say that I agree with Jessica here. Your angry outbursts are not acceptable.

Your wife is also right that if she had called 911, they might very well have arrested you for domestic violence. So you are lucky right now that she did not call 911 and that she did not get hurt.

The way to avoid this sort of thing never, very touch your wife when the two of you are angry. And if she wants to leave the house, she has the right to leave. You trying to stop her is wrong. You could have voiced your objection, but that is all you can do.

I also agree that you need to get into at least anger management classes/counseling. If you want to show your wife that you are taking your marriage seriously, you will do that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> yes, i agree. I too think that everything must have a recourse, or a way to forgiveness, she doesn't, and it kills me everytime she says it - perhaps the 180 is right, engaging on the emotional level in this time only digs a deeper rut, as the hurt is there, and the vengeance is painful.


I would not 180 her, if by that you mean withdraw from her. I would make sure that any interaction on your end is kind, gentle, and considerate, though, just like that article suggests.

How is your health now? What are you eating these days?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Damn, JB! I didn't know that you had been foolin' around with my RSXW!
> 
> In her case, she was a SAHM who richly(no pun intended)lived off of her many investments and horse trading interests!
> 
> ...


Damn, Sir,

Rightly and wrongly abused by Her were You.

The rest of us Male Folk have been whipped.

You Sir......were scourged.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

jld said:


> I would not 180 her, if by that you mean withdraw from her. I would make sure that any interaction on your end is kind, gentle, and considerate, though, just like that article suggests.
> 
> How is your health now? What are you eating these days?


i'm coping with type 2, though i have gained some weight back - the work stress and home stress gets to me, and i haven't gone back to exercising regularly. i know it's my fault, but getting home at 7-8pm then cooking, cleaning up, then trying to get an hour of me time means everything else falls off - sigh.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You need to wake up partner!

Throwing a plate is probably something 95% of husbands have done sometime or another. Not appropriate behavior, but 1 time in 20 years isn't that big of a deal.

YOU are a doormat. YOU don't count in your wife's mind. YOU are nothing but a paycheck for her and guess what? YOU have set yourself up to CONTINUE to be her paycheck when YOU ALLOW YOURSELF to be kicked out of your own house.

You work all day. You are the sole breadwinner.
Tell me what your wife does on a daily basis. How many kids are in school for 8 hours?
How many are at home all day? What does she get done?

You are worried to death about your wife, walking on pins and needles constantly, I suspect.
Your resentment is building because you work every day while she sits at home with nobody to tell her when or what to do, and you get ZERO respect. So little respect, in fact, that she feels she can kick you out of your own house. LOL!!!!!!!!!! 

My advice: If things are so bad that someone needs to leave, ask her to get a job and she can find her own place. I can tell you that "hell no!" will be her answer to getting a job and leaving the home.

SHe has obviously been researching ways to get you out of the house, researching options for HER in divorce on how to screw you out of paying for her lifestyle without her working, and probably home on the internet researching your replacement.

You are having basically no sex with her (not serving HER needs for intimacy/sex)
You are not being quiet enough while she wipes her feet on you (how dare you actually defend yourself when your breakfast you got up early and cooked isn't tasty enough).
And you are a ready-made free paycheck when she divorces you. She knows you'll probably want the kids a lot, and that will give her time to go party/find a new **** without the kids on your dime while you have the kids/babysit for her for free.

Now, tell me that you can talk to her like a reasonable person and that she respects your feelings and your opinions. You can't? Well, there you go!

Here's your future:

Divorce 
Pay her alimony and child support
You work to support her and your kids, she does nothing.
She finds herself a new man and shacks up.
You still work and pay for THEM to live.
She sits up on her rear.

Now, if you want to get the best possible outcome so you might have a decent future for yourself, get a lawyer pronto.
Realize your wife is going to try to set you up for abuse charges and have you put out of your own house. VAR. Video cameras in the home. DOn't let your wife railroad you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I appreciate the tough talk here, i need it. As my username says, i'm usually more confused and lost, and i usually don't know what to do next. I do admit, i have a temper which i bottle up, and it comes out in the worst of times. note that everything i have recounted have been repeated over and over again by her - by my nature, i don't remember details. *Also, one thing that she says about me is interesting - and perhaps true, she calls me a fair weather friend, that I'm there for all the happy times, but not there for the tough times - in this case, the tough times are when she is unhappy and I'm clueless about it.*


*Exact same damned verbiage that I heard from my RSXW!

So glad to know that her new "Mr. RSXW" is the one getting himself an earful now! &#55357;&#56835;*


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Please lawyer up, if you have not beaten the crap out of anybody in your house or even close to that, you are not an abuser like she is painting you. Wake up and stop eating what you are being fed. I work with abused families, yours doesn't even sound close to that.

If you want your family you fight for it with knowledge. She has taken advantage for too long. I worked, so did my X. We shared equally in taking care of the kids. He cooked and I cleaned or vice versa. 

She has used you for way too long and has controlled everything in your house. She reminds me of my own daughter and how she treats her husband with the difference that they have been married only 6 years. Stop being a doormat. Demand your needs in a way that won't make you look like a beast, but a loving man that has been taken advantage for way too long. If your wife doesn't see it, she is a fool.

She may indeed have found a replacement unknown to you. Leave no stone unturned. Knowledge is power. Dig and dig some more. Why does she now want to throw you out?

Why are your kids not asking for daddy to come back?

What is missing here?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Neither you nor your wife are taking personal responsibility for what is going on in your lives, your marriage, or your family life. That is the core of the problem right there. Further, you do not have each other's backs, but you generate ill will towards each other. This is the recipe that caused this disaster. Your children are learning to do the same.

First thing is to start taking care of yourself and learning what is healthy and what is not; body, soul, and spirit. 

Stop eating grains and sugars. This means no bread, cereal, pasta, rice, corn, soda pop, fruit juice, etc. Load your plate with vegetables. You have to feed your body properly in order for it to work for you.

Start reading some books about emotional health and emotional intelligence. 

Not all therapists are good therapists, but there are some out there who know their stuff. You might have to talk to a few before you find someone who is a good fit who will help you. It might take you a year, because you will likely have to wait a few weeks to a couple of months to get in to see a new therapist and you might have to do that a few times.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Thanks for reading my long post... i think my moving out may be the best way to give her the space she needs... also, i think the kids need her more than me - she drives them back from school, and she makes lunches for them.. i can do the lunch thing, but not the driving as i'm at work which is about 30-40mins away
> 
> yes, i've never pushed her before, and i surprised myself even, i think i was trying to grab her arm, and couldn't and pushed instead  she insists that what i've done is a crime..
> 
> ...



NO NO NO NO NONO....do not leave.....please do not leave...giving her space is what she wants...and the worst thing you can do...there are several people on this board who did the same thing and the next thing you know they found out there was a another man in their home and they changed the locks...you will come to regret it....this will not save your marriage.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> Why are your kids not asking for daddy to come back?
> What is missing here?


I haven't left, she just asked me to leave yesterday. My kids don't know yet, i don't know how to break it to them. After our fight, she has been vocal about wanting to go away for a long time (to see her mum), so the kids know something is up but not the details - they have gone into semi-shutdown mode as i don't think they know how to deal with this as well - we're fighting pretty regularly, and she is throwing snide remarks all the time, i can only imagine their stress. The interesting thing is that our fights doesn't seem to impact her interactions with the kids, with the kids, she is always smiles, always laughing - with me, it's the exact opposite - even when we're actively arguing, she can switch on a dime to talk nicely to the kids, and not me.
sigh.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.

that said, i don't want to leave, i want to work things out, i want to try the guide to hardened women that was posted here, i want to find a way to make things work, i'm going to propose that i move to the basement, and see how she takes it.

this is really affecting me, i'm at work today and i can barely focus - its worse with all the people coming by and talking about this work issue, that work issue - it all seems like trivial stuff when my family is falling apart.

I just tried to schedule a new therapist, but got voice mail - boy this hurts bad. sigh.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.
> 
> that said, i don't want to leave, i want to work things out, i want to try the guide to hardened women that was posted here, i want to find a way to make things work, i'm going to propose that i move to the basement, and see how she takes it.
> 
> ...


Of course you do not want to lose your family. You love them, your wife included.

That article is a great guide to follow. There are other excellent articles on that website, too.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I haven't left, she just asked me to leave yesterday. My kids don't know yet, i don't know how to break it to them. After our fight, she has been vocal about wanting to go away for a long time (to see her mum), so the kids know something is up but not the details - they have gone into semi-shutdown mode as i don't think they know how to deal with this as well - we're fighting pretty regularly, and she is throwing snide remarks all the time, i can only imagine their stress. The interesting thing is that our fights doesn't seem to impact her interactions with the kids, with the kids, she is always smiles, always laughing - with me, it's the exact opposite - even when we're actively arguing, she can switch on a dime to talk nicely to the kids, and not me.
> sigh.


The reason she can switch on a dime:
It doesn't impact her enough emotionally, to cause any real distress. She is indifferent.
I totally believe she is cheating on you, and has been for a long time.
It would be better for your relationship if she were angry as hell, rather than indifferent.

She's checked out. I'm so sorry. 
Good news: you were not with the right person, and your life is being screwed up totally out of your control. You see this as a really bad thing right now. But a year or so from now, you will realize she did you a huge favor.

Please, I know you're totally screwed up in the head emotionally right now. You feel awful. The worst feeling is the helplessness--- I remember it well.
I promise you that your life is not over. Your wife has zero value, unless you GIVE her that value in your mind. You've got to stop giving her all this value--- the first step to healing is acceptance. Accept she is gone and you will heal much faster.

Everything your emotions will have you wanting to do-- texting, calling, begging----- these are counterproductive and will cause you further pain. I'm begging you not to do that.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> i checked with a lawyer - it seems in my state, as she is a SAHM, i am already screwed for custody of the kids whether i leave home or not. As i am not at home for the same amount of hours, she has the first claim - however she has to find a job first.. i hope it doesn't come to that - but leaving doesn't put me in any legal dilemma.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why not go directly to anger management instead of a therapist? That sounds to me like the main issue she has with you. Is it possible your wife is suffering from PPD/on-going depression? I know you mentioned it after her mom left. 

I'd still recommend doing motel therapy for at least a few weeks, mainly to protect yourself from triggers while you work on eliminating your angry outbursts. I'd let her know before you go what you are doing and why, and that you're taking it very seriously. That you want a great marriage with her and you know there is work to be done to get there, but this comes first for her safety and protection.

While in treatment, extend offers to date your wife, if she will accept. You're the father of her children, she will soften once she sees how hard you're working. 

Tell her you want to find ways to make the home more peaceful.

I don't see anything wrong with her trying to put on a brave, happy face for the children. It doesn't mean that she's not in pain too due to the state of your marriage right now, just that she likely knows the importance of keeping it together for them. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> thanks for giving me this perspective - there is no excuse for the behavior.


I'll take the opposite view on this. I really don't think you have a problem with anger. Ok so you bottle it up sometimes and it comes out it's not like you knowingly abuse her. You are...human?? She was looking for an edge, something she could use to bring you down. She found it and she's going to use it over and over until she gets what she wants. I suggest you do the same she did to you, look for that flaw and bait her til she messes up.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

i'm still in the house, she is still cold, she avoids answering my questions. i still haven't manned up about moving to the basement instead of moving out (didn't want to aggravate her). I have set up counseling on Friday, and as i had outlined earlier, talked to a lawyer (screwed either way). This is so hard.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> i'm still in the house, she is still cold, she avoids answering my questions. i still haven't manned up about moving to the basement instead of moving out (didn't want to aggravate her). I have set up counseling on Friday, and as i had outlined earlier, talked to a lawyer (screwed either way). This is so hard.


What do you plan to talk to her about your moving to the basement? It sounds like you are going to ask her permission.

If you are going to move to the basement just do it. Let her find out after you do it. Just make sure she does not lock the door to the main part of the house. It's still your home.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

I agree with others, DO NOT move out of YOUR house. Not even a temporary stay in a hotel. If your wife wants out, point to the door. 

I guess I have to ask, all of your kids are in school, what exactly is your wife doing all day? It sounds like she is doing the pool guy or the lawn guy. Spare me the speech about how hard it is to take care of a house and three kids all are above the age of 11. Laundry goes up but the kids are more than capable of taking care of themselves and helping out.

She is totally checked out of your marriage and has no respect for you at all. At some point you need to get your balls our of her purse and put them back where they belong. You make the money, start to control it as well. Start to take control back of your life.  You can't control anyone's actions but your own. Stop doing all of the work around the house and go workout instead. Dinner didn't get done? To bad. Your wife has 8 hours a day free of kids she could prepare for that. You are also allowed to disagree with your wife. You don't have to be nasty about it but you don't have to give in either. I am afraid that your marriage is most likely done if you cannot man-up and start to assert some level of control instead of being a doormat.

Use your therapy appointment to work on making you a better person. Someone who is happy and comfortable with themselves. It may take a couple of therapists till you find one that really can help you, so don't get discouraged by one that does not seem to help. Keep trying. Learn to communicate and deescalate situations so that everything doesn't end up in an argument.

As for the attorney, talk to a couple of more. That is such BS that you have to take it in the butt because she is a SAHM. More and more states have reworked the divorce laws to be more equitable to fathers and mothers. 50/50 split with the kids should be more than possible, but you have to be willing to stand up for your rights as a Dad. Don't give your wife everything in a divorce because you are a "nice guy." You are entitled to certain things as well and don't accept the every other weekend (EOW) screw job. It may require that you revamp your job to be able to take care of the kids, but that is the price you pay to be in their lives. Kids need both parents in their lives, not just one. Fight for your rights.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

If you were throwing dishes and breaking the rice cooker, you wife is probably afraid of you on some level. I honestly have no idea why some posters seem to think she made a big deal out of nothing.....there is an anger problem and an inability to control oneself here.

When one is capable of throwing and breaking things it's not usually a one time thing. Were there other instances of you getting upset and doing this?

Men are generally bigger and when they can't control their anger and resort to throwing and breaking things many women will find it scary and intimidating. Your wife was probably on high alert which is why when you grabbed her she sensed an escalation. Think about it: you have a history of breaking things and now you're grabbing her. 

Ok, I get that it was an accident. But what wasn't an accident is that you got upset enough to try to physically stop her.....many serious incidents start this way. 

So I'll ask again for clarity: do you have a history of getting upset and throwing/breaking things? If so the dynamic is different then much of the advice would apply to. Admittedly I haven't read all of the posts so I apologize if you've already addressed this.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> If you were throwing dishes and breaking the rice cooker, you wife is probably afraid of you on some level. I honestly have no idea why some posters seem to think she made a big deal out of nothing.....there is an anger problem and an inability to control oneself here.
> 
> When one is capable of throwing and breaking things it's not usually a one time thing. Were there other instances of you getting upset and doing this?
> 
> ...


I appreciate the feedback - yes, i know she may be scared. I have also seen her react very adversely when her other family member offend her in various ways, so not all of her reaction is surprising. What is sad/surprising is that i can't seem to do the right thing to help her calm down and want to forgive... 

You asked about my history, there are 3 total "incidents"
1. i called her b**** (and instantly regretted it) (many years ago)
2. i got mad, upset and ended up throwing plates and breaking the rice cooker (2 years ago, i just remembered i posted about it here when it happened)
3. i was mad, got upset as she was getting ready to throw some stuff (a laptop) out the door, and shoved her as she was heading to the door. (more than a week ago now)

i have gotten mad before, but i have usually walked away or just not engaged. I don't usually share my frustrations (even work ones) with anyone (not even friends) so i do have a history of bottling up frustration. Its' been something she has pointed out as a flaw in my character before. After the plate incident, i knew that something was seriously wrong with me - i was also relatively hungry at that time, and was wondering if it was blood sugar related - i don't usually lose control like this. For the shoving, i don't even know (or can explain what happened), i guess i just did it to stop her from doing something i felt was stupid? sigh.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> What do you plan to talk to her about your moving to the basement? It sounds like you are going to ask her permission.
> 
> If you are going to move to the basement just do it. Let her find out after you do it. Just make sure she does not lock the door to the main part of the house. It's still your home.


i don't know why i feel a need to talk to her about me moving to the basement - perhaps it's to answer the "when are you moving out" question? i'm just so confused on what the right thing is to do - i worry that if i just moved to the basement without talking, i won't know if it would even matter - yes, i have talked myself into this - it is to get permission, not sure what for though... damned i am messed up.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

i just wrote this - i'm thinking of sending this in email to her - any feedback?

"I hurt you, I betrayed your trust. I made the safe place that is home into a place where you feel trapped alone, without any support and help. I ignored or minimize your feelings with my ignorance, I tried to find fixes instead of listening. I have been a terrible person, and a terrible husband that is not worthy of you. Just realizing that I have been continuously doing this to the person I love is a terrible realization, and has woken me up. I have found a new therapist whom I am seeing on Friday, my focus is on controlling my anger, and seeing a different perspective that I have been missing for a long time. My goal is to rebuild (if it can) what I have so stupidly thrown away.

For many good reasons, you have asked me to move out. What I will do is move to the basement, and stay out of your way, give you space. I do this as the family is my responsibility as well, I will continue do my fatherly duties, and I will continue to work on the house, do my part, but the home will be more peaceful this way. I will co-parent, and not be an absent one. 

Over the last 20 years, nothing has made me more content and happy than the family I have grown with you, while I have not expressed it as often, all of you ground me in life, and I could ask for nothing more. While I live life with few regrets, what I have done to you has become my biggest. "


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> She cannot kick you out of your house. It is your legal residence and your children live there. Don't move out. If you need to just move to another room for right now.
> 
> You were wrong in pushing her, or whatever it was that you did. You apologized. I assume this is the only time you have done something like that. Is that right?
> 
> ...



I agree with this, Ele. OP shouldn't move out and if she leaves, don't let her take the kids. 

I feel there is more at play here. Noone takes 20 years and kids and starts throwing out works like 'that's a crime' It tells me that OP may be getting setup. Further, what spouse wants their spouse to move out with finances and kids in play.

There is something else here. OP needs to take a chill pill but also needs to live there and be on top of the situation for his kids and his marriage/family. Yes, VAR immediately

Finally, yes I think you need therapy in controlling your anger and I am not saying that you didn't do wrong because you did. However but that email you are thinking about sending her is a complete capitulation and will cuckold you to her for a very long time. You have to strike a balance between contrition and defending yourself by illustrating the importance of the good things you have done while the importance of you being the kids father comes into play. tell her you are getting help.

You are begging to stay in your own house which is a bad move. Giving her unlimited space is bad and an email like the one you are sending makes you look extremely weak. And weak guys normally lose, even if they somehow save their marriage, they are never respected again.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> i just wrote this - i'm thinking of sending this in email to her - any feedback?
> 
> "I hurt you, I betrayed your trust. I made the safe place that is home into a place where you feel trapped alone, without any support and help. I ignored or minimize your feelings with my ignorance, I tried to find fixes instead of listening. I have been a terrible person, and a terrible husband that is not worthy of you. Just realizing that I have been continuously doing this to the person I love is a terrible realization, and has woken me up. I have found a new therapist whom I am seeing on Friday, my focus is on controlling my anger, and seeing a different perspective that I have been missing for a long time. My goal is to rebuild (if it can) what I have so stupidly thrown away.
> 
> ...


I'd suggest starting off on a more positive note, as it sounds like she has issues to work on as well. But I agree with you that you first need to eliminate your angry outbursts and are acknowledging that to your wife.

"Dear Wife,

You mean everything to me. You and our family are my top priorities. I want to create a happier, healthier marriage with you and I understand that in order to do that, I must eliminate my angry outbursts. I've hurt you and our family by my actions. I'm meeting with a therapist on Friday for weekly appointments to learn how to completely eliminate all angry outbursts and manage my frustrations in a safe way. Once I've accomplished this, I'd like you to consider entering marital coaching/therapy with me so we can learn how to better care for each other and solve any issues in our marriage in a mutually agreeable way.

During this time, please consider allowing me to give you space by moving into our basement, where I will be able to still help with the children and home while in anger management therapy. I will respect your need for space while doing so."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> i just wrote this - i'm thinking of sending this in email to her - any feedback?
> 
> "I hurt you, I betrayed your trust. I made the safe place that is home into a place where you feel trapped alone, without any support and help. I ignored or minimize your feelings with my ignorance, I tried to find fixes instead of listening. I have been a terrible person, and a terrible husband that is not worthy of you. Just realizing that I have been continuously doing this to the person I love is a terrible realization, and has woken me up. I have found a new therapist whom I am seeing on Friday, my focus is on controlling my anger, and seeing a different perspective that I have been missing for a long time. My goal is to rebuild (if it can) what I have so stupidly thrown away.
> 
> ...


Do not send that email. It's good to admit your faults, but that self flagellation in there is at a level that makes me uncomfortable. Let's see what others have to say.

If she is trying to set you up to get you out of the house, that email would be a great bit of evidence for her to show the police. You are basically admitting to domestic violence in i

While you are thinking of moving to the basement, wait a bit for that.

Let's clear up some things that are not completely clear right now.

You say that you threw dishes.

When did you do this? What other angry, destructive things have you done? How long ago did you do these things, how often? Make a list of the things that you did so that we have a very clear image of what you have done.

How often do you yell at her in anger? When have you done this?

How often have you put your hands on her in anger? Hit her, pushed her? Etc? And when did these times happen?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> I'll take the opposite view on this. I really don't think you have a problem with anger. Ok so you bottle it up sometimes and it comes out it's not like you knowingly abuse her. You are...human?? She was looking for an edge, something she could use to bring you down. She found it and she's going to use it over and over until she gets what she wants. I suggest you do the same she did to you, look for that flaw and bait her til she messes up.


this is definitely interesting, JB. My bet is that his wife isn't perfect either and maybe he should illustrate her flaws to even out the score while working to improve himself. 

I love my wife more than everything in the world but if I kicked her out of the house everytime she freaked out, the hotel expenses would have bankrupted us by now. The same goes in reverse. 

The problem with OP is that he has capitulated to a large extent and his self guilt is going to ultimately drive him out and before he knows it, another guy will be living in his house with his kids while he is trying to 'give her space'. 

That is not to say that she's cheating on him now though nothing in 2017 surprises me. However, separation enables such situations


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> ....
> I feel there is more at play here. Noone takes 20 years and kids and starts throwing out works like 'that's a crime' It tells me that OP may be getting setup. Further, what spouse wants their spouse to move out with finances and kids in play.
> 
> There is something else here. OP needs to take a chill pill but also needs to live there and be on top of the situation for his kids and his marriage/family. Yes, VAR immediately
> ....


I am pretty sure there is no other man, no other situation here. One thing she has is pride like no other - while she may eventually realize that she can come out ahead in this situation - i know she is more absorbed about leaving everything behind. I've seen her isolate herself in terrible situations with her family, and spiral badly. Her sister has also behaved this way, she broke up with her husband (many many years ago), and then basically dropped off the face of the earth, refusing to return calls from the family, and not even wanting to be contacted. This is how messed up the family can be. This is why the advice around not leaving the home actually resonates lot with me - not due to fear on what will happen around finances/custody, i actually have fear around what she would do as she spirals.



wmn1 said:


> .....
> Finally, yes I think you need therapy in controlling your anger and I am not saying that you didn't do wrong because you did. However but that email you are thinking about sending her is a complete capitulation and will cuckold you to her for a very long time. You have to strike a balance between contrition and defending yourself by illustrating the importance of the good things you have done while the importance of you being the kids father comes into play. tell her you are getting help.
> 
> You are begging to stay in your own house which is a bad move. Giving her unlimited space is bad and an email like the one you are sending makes you look extremely weak. And weak guys normally lose, even if they somehow save their marriage, they are never respected again.


I get what you are saying. What i have seen in the last 20 years, is that a softer approach works with her. This is how i get her to calm down and talk to her mum again, this is how i make her stop scolding or being angry at the kids. this is how i have managed to get her to talk to me again before. So it is perhaps the only thing i know how to do now. 

I don't know how a total change into an assertive individual looking out for himself would be consistent with my behavior for the last 20 years - would it push her further away? would it justify her decision/thought process? those are my concerns.

thanks for reading and commenting though - it has been great in helping me process.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> I'd suggest starting off on a more positive note, as it sounds like she has issues to work on as well. But I agree with you that you first need to eliminate your angry outbursts and are acknowledging that to your wife.
> 
> "Dear Wife,
> 
> ...


This sounds a lot better. 

Except that I would change that last paragraph to read:

"During this time, I will be moving into our basement, where I will be able to still help with the children and home while in anger management therapy. I will respect your need for space while doing so."

I would not ask her for permission. It gives her to option to dig in her heals to say that no, he has to move out. It's not her choice whether he moves to the basement or not. He's moving to the basement to give her some space for a short period of time, 3-6 months max. That's his choice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I don't know how a total change into an assertive individual looking out for himself would be consistent with my behavior for the last 20 years - would it push her further away? would it justify her decision/thought process? those are my concerns.


If you work to change yourself into a more assertive, self assured person, it will take time. You are not going to do this in one day. It will be a more gradual change, so she will have time to adapt to it as the changes take place.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You shouldn't be changing yourself to get your wife back. 

You should be doing it to be a better person..... the kind of husband, father, and person you want to be. 

If it gets her back and the relationship is healthy great. If not you're a better guy.

Be the person you want to be.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think your letter sounds sincere and heartfelt. Your wife will know that.

You have to change, OP. And going to counseling is a good way to start.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> I think your letter sounds sincere and heartfelt. Your wife will know that.
> 
> You have to change, OP. And going to counseling is a good way to start.


His wife needs to make some serious changes too.

She's a hoarder... there is a room that is not usable because she filled it with junk. He says that the rest of he house is similarly cluttered. Living with a order can be a huge emotional stress. If his wife is a hoarder, it also means that she has some serious emotional problems that need to be fixed.


He works full time and has to cook dinner most of the time. That tells me that she is not doing what a SAHM is supposed to do. Him having to come home and cook every night after working all day is just wrong. She clearly cannot take care of a home and children. I get his level of frustration. I've been through with a husband who could not seem to do anything all day so that I had to come home and cook and clean. This is, in my book, her abusing the OP.

This is why I suggested that he leave out the self flagellation. They need to see a counselor and talk about both of their contribution to the problems. They have both done wrong.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Neither party should leave, however, the two of you need to lay some ground rules, AND biggie in this: You both need to get into therapy, whether you like it or not, both of you have issues and long standing festering anger. As a layman, just reading your first post, one can see that there is a ton of resentment, which, if I were to project a bit, has probably never been addressed in a calm and rational manner.

There was a poster on here a while back who also had similar issues with his wife and they did separate. He learned to leave the behaviors that were endangering his marriage in the past. She learned to trust him again. I cannot remember his name but the thread describes a marriage that was on life-support and came back. (If anyone can find this, please send a PM to the OP, in this situation, I think it would be most helpful)

One last thought: Anger is poisonous to a marriage, it is also fairly useless in getting your point across. It does nothing but alienate the people who mean the most to you. Be well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> His wife needs to make some serious changes too.
> 
> She's a hoarder... there is a room that is not usable because she filled it with junk. He says that the rest of he house is similarly cluttered. Living with a order can be a huge emotional stress. If his wife is a hoarder, it also means that she has some serious emotional problems that need to be fixed.
> 
> ...


Who decides what a sahm is "supposed" to do?

I think a sincere, humble approach is his most likely bet for opening her up before they are able to see a counselor, if she accepts to go.

She would not recognize Jessica's voice in that letter. But she surely would recognize her husband's.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you send her any email remotely like that, you are screwing up.

You would have a better chance of getting your wife back if you told her to GTFO, slapped her face, and spit on her as she left.

What that letter will do is:

Cement in her mind that even you think she is right to divorce you.
Give her something to throw back in your face in the future.
Repulse her by your weakness.

But you're going to send it.
I know you are. I sent one like it. Regret it every day.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> If you send her any email remotely like that, you are screwing up.
> 
> You would have a better chance of getting your wife back if you told her to GTFO, slapped her face, and spit on her as she left.
> 
> ...


do you suggest i give it to her f2f then?


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

I moved to the basement tonight. I did the move while she was sending the kids to violin class. I printed out the letter I had shared with the forum with some tweaks and left it on her side of the bed. Its strange to sleep alone in the house after so many years. Wish me luck. Therapy starts tomorrow. I'm trying to stay strong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope it goes ok.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

wmn1 said:


> this is definitely interesting, JB. My bet is that his wife isn't perfect either and maybe he should illustrate her flaws to even out the score while working to improve himself.
> 
> I love my wife more than everything in the world but if I kicked her out of the house everytime she freaked out, the hotel expenses would have bankrupted us by now. The same goes in reverse.
> 
> ...


I agree mostly, I think he really over did the self guilt thing and he shouldn't be considering leaving solely based on that. I just see this as his wife leaning up against him and if he stumbled or something an accidentally bumped into her, she is going to use that as an accusation of abuse. I'm not saying I'm defending wife beaters but women do this all the time just to have an excuse to allege abuse. If he's going to let himself feel guilty about that, I don't know what to say.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> do you suggest i give it to her f2f then?


I suggest you never, ever, in a million years send her that or give her this period. You don't get it.

What you are doing (acting on your emotions and trying to nicer her back, win her back, being vulnerable, etc.) is going to have the EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT of what you want.

Do you beat your wife?
Do you yell and verbally abuse her on a regular basis?
Do you emotionally abuse her by withholding affection, withholding sex, give her the silent treatment, etc.?

From what I've read, the abuser is your wife. It happens because you are spineless and won't handle things until you blow up and then pitch a fit--- which negates your righteous indignation by the fact that you've now lost your temper.

You've got to change alright. You've got to stop accepting her BS and getting stronger. 
I have been guilty of blowing up with anger and verbally abusing my SO. That is a WEAKNESS. Having some righteous anger and dealing with a problem in a firm, but respectful manner is a STRENGTH.

Stop being a pushover. Stop sucking up to your abusive wife. STOP. JUST FREAKING STOP.

Are you understanding anything I'm saying? You are likely not a rage monster. You are just not dealing with things and letting it build up until the pressure blows you up and you lose your temper. 

NOTHING you have done qualifies you falling on the sword, yet again, due to getting upset with your wife's bad behavior.

Stop letting the feminists on here tell you what a monster you are for pushing your wife. You didn't get violent with her. She was looking for an excuse to make you out to be the bad guy. You are really in a bad state of mind for dealing with your wife.
I don't think you see reality because you have such a fear of losing her. That fear is SO COSTLY, if you let it make you lose your self confidence. I know from experience.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I hope it goes ok.



slept terribly (expected), don't know if she even read the letter (i am sure she couldn't have missed it). Mornings are as awkward as ever, except i do take the extra effort to not be in her way. I did go about doing what i always do, send the kids to school. She did have extra breakfast for me like she usually does. I'm trying so hard not to engage with her and talk to her, but wow, is it painful. i'm also living in the basement amongst the clutter now (between craft paper towers) :frown2: so it's kinda wierd too..

little daughter confided in me last night as i was tucking her into bed, telling me that she is really sad about what is going on, and her elder sister had told her that she should try to be nicer, perhaps mum/dad would not fight as much - that broke my heart. Had to tell her it's not her fault, and also told her i was moving to the basement so that we won't fight. Told her elder sisters this morning as i was driving them to school as well.

These are the kind of heartaches one can never prepare yourself for, and never imagine that would happen to yourself. terrible.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> *little daughter confided in me last night as i was tucking her into bed, telling me that she is really sad about what is going on, and her elder sister had told her that she should try to be nicer, perhaps mum/dad would not fight as much -*
> These are the kind of heartaches one can never prepare yourself for, and never imagine that would happen to yourself. terrible.


Dam I am sorry that is heart breaking to hear, I have been speaking to my IC about impact on the Children and reading about it a lot since it scares me so much, apparently all you can do is not talk bad of other parent so they don't feel like they have to pick a side and constantly reassure them you love them and it is not there fault. @Grapes was telling me some stuff he learned in a Parenting class which I will also have to take soon as part of the divorce proceedings.

My thoughts are with you and your Children.


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

I would highly recommend taking the class if your state offers it or even if a near by state offers it. Its worth the cost and these places welcome anyone because they are in it for the kids. This is the exact kind of thing they talk about and provide you with tools to do your best.

Im really sorry you have to go through this and theres nothing more heartbreaking then seeing your little ones hurt


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm sure she got the letter already but in my opinion letters
never turn out the way you want them too. 

Bad idea should have just moved. She knows why.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> slept terribly (expected), don't know if she even read the letter (i am sure she couldn't have missed it). Mornings are as awkward as ever, except i do take the extra effort to not be in her way. I did go about doing what i always do, send the kids to school. *She did have extra breakfast for me like she usually does. *I'm trying so hard not to engage with her and talk to her, but wow, is it painful. i'm also living in the basement amongst the clutter now (between craft paper towers) :frown2: so it's kinda wierd too..
> 
> little daughter confided in me last night as i was tucking her into bed, telling me that she is really sad about what is going on, and her elder sister had told her that she should try to be nicer, perhaps mum/dad would not fight as much - that broke my heart. Had to tell her it's not her fault, and also told her i was moving to the basement so that we won't fight. Told her elder sisters this morning as i was driving them to school as well.
> 
> These are the kind of heartaches one can never prepare yourself for, and never imagine that would happen to yourself. terrible.


The bolded gives me hope for you. 

Your children are worth your humbling yourself and showing respect and empathy to your wife. 

But I know you already know that.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

jld said:


> The bolded gives me hope for you.
> 
> Your children are worth your humbling yourself and *showing respect and empathy to your wife. *
> 
> But I know you already know that.


Thanks - how do i do the bolded (respect and empathy) when she doesn't share anything anymore with me? i mean, i have asked her "how was her day" and she ignores  perhaps she is not ready to talk, but i have trouble wondering when she would be.

today has been a depressing day, and i'm stuck at work.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Thanks - how do i do the bolded (respect and empathy) when she doesn't share anything anymore with me? i mean, i have asked her "how was her day" and she ignores  perhaps she is not ready to talk, but i have trouble wondering when she would be.
> 
> today has been a depressing day, and i'm stuck at work.


I'm sure it's hard. But hang in there. 

Maybe do not approach her? But be present with the kids, and be helpful. Serve her through your actions. Be patient and gentle and kind, just like that article recommended. 

She does love you. Remember how she was concerned about your diabetes, and wanted to help find food you could eat? If she did not love you, she would not try to help at all.

Keep reading that Hardened Wife article. Try browsing the rest of that Ultimate Husband website, too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, I posted this earlier today on another thread. You may want to check out this man's website:

_This blogger shares his views on women's need for emotional security in marriage:

I think the #1 cause of divorce is relationship-damaging behavior by men who honestly don’t recognize it. Good men with good intentions who damage their wives’ emotional and mental health with behaviors they don’t understand to be as damaging as they are.

. . . 

Men—boyfriends and husbands—often are so determined to defend their actions and feelings that they don’t actively listen to their upset girlfriends or wives. They HEAR them, saying words and being angry and stuff. But they don’t LISTEN. They don’t understand. They never figure out WHY their partner is saying and feeling these things.

. . . 

After dozens, perhaps hundreds of attempts to explain what it is that upsets her, he generally responds angrily. Or tells her she’s wrong. Or tells her she’s just being emotional again. Or tells her she’s mentally unstable. Or simply walks away in frustration because he doesn’t want to fight anymore. Or maybe he’s really patient, and simply walks away confused after the conversation without fighting back, but also without ever understanding what she’s trying to communicate to him.

No matter which of those common responses occur with any given couple, each instance further weakens a wife or girlfriend’s faith in the relationship.

. . . 

A wife or girlfriend loses trust in her husband or boyfriend after repeated attempts to explain why something hurts and requests for help in making it stop haven’t resulted in any positive outcomes nor any evidence that he wants the painful thing to stop.

Faced with feeling hurt every day for the rest of her marriage/relationship, and no evidence her committed partner is willing to be a partner in making something painful go away, she stops trusting him._

https://mustbethistalltoride.com/


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You are listening closely to JLD.

She's telling you exactly what you want to hear. It's all your fault and you can fix it.

Sad thing is, you're now doomed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are listening closely to JLD.
> 
> She's telling you exactly what you want to hear. It's all your fault and you can fix it.
> 
> Sad thing is, you're now doomed.


He is not "doomed."

He is going to counseling and will get professional advice there. In the meantime, it cannot hurt to be kind and respectful to his wife.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are listening closely to JLD.
> 
> She's telling you exactly what you want to hear. It's all your fault and you can fix it.
> 
> Sad thing is, you're now doomed.


:iagree:

YEP. Prepare to be trampled upon, taken advantage of and disrespected if you go this route.

This is not to say you should act like a jerk, either.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

JLD has a good relationship w her husband. He is reasonable and not a nut case (heh heh).
What she doesn't have a clue about is how things work in the real world where one is dealing with an unreasonable, illogical, unloving jerk.
Nicey nice just fuels the fire for these broken types to see the GO sign on emotionally destroying you.
Your wife is not attempting to kick you out because she loves you.

You've been trying to use love, reason, respect, and patience for years. Look where you are.

Don't be mean, but for God's sake stand firm in stopping her mistreatment of you.

Be a good husband. Don't cower down and be a doormat.


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.


You were warned.
She loves you? Nope.

But don't leave your home. I wouldn't leave my bed. She wants out, let her leave.
Stop taking her ****.

What have you done to deserve to be kicked out of your home?

Grow a set, or bend over and take the shaft.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.




You have your answer, Now frame the letter. Move back into your bedroom and hang the framed letter on the wall. If she complains tell her she is free to move into the cellar. When you find yourself questioning what you are doing while she humiliates and berates you look at the letter and remind yourself of her reply to your heartfelt attempt.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You have your answer, Now frame the letter. Move back into your bedroom and hang the framed letter on the wall. If she complains tell her she is free to move into the cellar. When you find yourself questioning what you are doing while she humiliates and berates you look at the letter and remind yourself of her reply to your heartfelt attempt.


I have to agree with this. Get out of the cellar. If she wants to end this, then SHE can get out. Period.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.


If she did not care, she would not have troubled herself by going downstairs to throw the letter on your bed. 

She cares. She is just really hurt.

Be patient and continue what you are doing. If your heart has truly changed, she will see it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> If you send her any email remotely like that, you are screwing up.
> 
> You would have a better chance of getting your wife back if you told her to GTFO, slapped her face, and spit on her as she left.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what happened. 
And she didnt leave it on his bed because she cares, she did it because she now knows he is WEAK. She knows she has him by the balls. This is exactly why he needs to get out of the damn basement NOW and take his home back. She has ZERO respect for him right now.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.


That had to have hurt. 

Did you see your therapist yesterday? What did he or she advise?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

OP - very co-dependent. Locate a CODA.org meeting place - if possible. They are few and far apart. You sound like you're in the UK?

For your marriage to work - it takes the TWO of you. You can AND should help yourself. Therapy, etc.
As stated by others - your wife has issues. Hoarding *IS* a problem and it will get worse if its not taken care of.
Seems like you are also the one who pays the bills... house payments and all.

So with that... you need to find your balls. Sorry, it's not even to be insulting... just as others have said. The letter was a nice attempt to get somewhere... but at this time, your wife doesn't give a damn about you. She has resentment and no desire to FIX herself.

Start doing 180. NOW: The 180 U Turn - Affaircare

Move back INTO your bedroom... start clearing out junk or make one side YOURS and throw junk onto HER side or the basement. Take some doc. meds to help you sleep... IN your bed in YOUR bedroom. She can sleep with you or in the basement. Don't care (ie: YOU don't care).

Don't ask her about cleaning your side of the bedroom/bed. Don't attempt to touch or hug her or say "I love you" in your bed. DO 180.
I was in a position to throw my wife out last year, and I did. We went to therapy together and worked things out.
Cheating or not (her) - you must be willing to lose the marriage to save it. You don't want to live in the hoarding house? It's not healthy.

If she doesn't want to FIX herself - you cannot make her. So you need to prepare to leave her for YOUR sake and the kids. It means you sell the big house, move into a much smaller home (no junk = less space)... she can move somewhere else and hoard there.

Do 180... now. 
The crumpled letter... tells you where she is today. Burn it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> I suggest you never, ever, in a million years send her that *or give her this period*. You don't get it.
> 
> What you are doing (acting on your emotions and trying to nicer her back, win her back, being vulnerable, etc.) is going to have the EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT of what you want.
> 
> ...


Give her this period? She is perpetually on her "period". Period, no more needs to be said. 

I have come to the conclusion that my pal @Evinrude58 needs to chill out and take a break from TAM.
You are going to pop an eye capillary soon!

Cellars are home for spiders, sow bugs, millipedes, centipedes, maybe wine.....not for men.

Come up out of your dudgeon and rejoin the light.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> Got home to find my note crumpled up in a ball on my basement bed. So sad, as lost and confused as ever.


I don't know why you're more confused. 
Sends a pretty clear message to me. 
So what are you going to do about it?


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## alwaysconfusedandlost (Nov 17, 2015)

wow, while i appreciate all the well-meaning advice, what did i do to get all the bitter husbands out and commenting on my thread - ouch. Reading all the well-meaning advice, and i know you all are speaking from experience, i still can't imagine a world where i can be as heartless, direct and non-caring as you guys are asking me to be. It's just not what i am (or at least not consistent with what i have been doing for a long time). I know i have to change, but is "growing a pair" like what you guys talk about the way? it feels like exactly what she is doing - and i'm sure about fighting fire with fire. 

I've seen this happen in her family way too much, i prided myself in being able (in the past) to help her get past these cold wars/shoulders and connect back with the family. I worry that she doesn't have someone who can help her do this (she has no friends that she is really honest with). I hurt so badly knowing how she feels, and how unhappy that she can be, but instead of the past where i could help her, i feel totally powerless.

Therapy didn't really help yesterday, it felt like i was telling my life to (yet another) stranger. While there was good acknowledgement that i wasn't just being crazy and i was genuinely frustrated - my skepticism doesn't allow me to embrace all that advice - at the back of my mind i'm thinking "of course there is agreement, i'm paying for this session!"  Sorry if this offends other therapists on the tread, i've just not had enough experience here, and benefit here to lay off on the skepticism..

that said, do i know how to help myself? no... i'm moping around, feeling miserable. I took the kids to language school today, something my wife and i usually do together, but this time, by myself. I find myself alone for the next couple of hours, and feeling incredibly sad. 

Guys, i appreciate the harsh, bitter, direct and cutting comments. I may not be at the point where i can appreciate it - but i'm glad you are providing an alternative POV. Please don't have this resort to questioning others who may be wanting to give other advice that are perhaps closer to what my mind needs now.. every relationship is slightly different. For mine, i want hope, i want to make it work, for me, disengagement is failure i cannot accept, for her or for my kids.

thanks for listening.


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## lorikeet25 (Jun 22, 2016)

At the end of the day, you cannot save this marriage by yourself. You really need to start preparing yourself for the end.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The reason you are getting harsh advice, is because you are getting harsh treatment by your wife.
While I can appreciate that "fighting fire with fire" rarely works, I don't think that you would be doing that. I think you'd more be giving her exactly what she wants, which is to emotionally segregate from you and emotionally stifle/stonewall you.

Talking through things is of course the more mature thing to do, but only works with those mature enough to DO it. Your wife would clearly rather turn a cold shoulder to you. No amount of pleading or begging or letter writing is going to convince her to change, so when all else fails, you try a different approach that requires you to step outside of your comfort zone.

You're right. You're not there yet. Maybe in the future but that's really up to you.
Do some more reading around here.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> wow, while i appreciate all the well-meaning advice, what did i do to get all the bitter husbands out and commenting on my thread - ouch. Reading all the well-meaning advice, and i know you all are speaking from experience, i still can't imagine a world where i can be as heartless, direct and non-caring as you guys are asking me to be. It's just not what i am (or at least not consistent with what i have been doing for a long time). I know i have to change, but is "growing a pair" like what you guys talk about the way? it feels like exactly what she is doing - and i'm sure about fighting fire with fire.
> 
> I've seen this happen in her family way too much, i prided myself in being able (in the past) to help her get past these cold wars/shoulders and connect back with the family. I worry that she doesn't have someone who can help her do this (she has no friends that she is really honest with). I hurt so badly knowing how she feels, and how unhappy that she can be, but instead of the past where i could help her, i feel totally powerless.
> 
> ...


So how'd that advice from JLD about giving her the letter work out for you?
Well, get used to it, because that's the same way all of her other advice will work out.

Bitter? I've seen a last thread where here suggesting all this feel-good positivity and husband-blaming cost a man countless months of agony.
It would be a good read for you. Grid.com is the username. He was being cheated on. I'm not so sure you aren't being cheated on.... the signs are there. 

Your wife has totally checked out. You repulse her. Ask her--- she will tell you.
What you wish would work, and reality are two different things.
This is my last post on your thread.
I hate to see you doing this to yourself. Until you get a different attitude, you will be in pain indefinitely.
I can't watch.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I was once in a situation like you.

so were a lot of the posters here.

I once thought just like you.

you will learn tbe hard way or the easy way, but you will eventually learn.
I guarantee it. You'll look back a year or two from now and you'll know the truth.

We all did. Some of us too late. Its up to you.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@alwaysconfusedandlost : We're not being mean to you at all. What hurts more, what we have posted or what your wife has done with that letter? hmmmm?
You are a father to small children, right? You know how sometimes as a parent, you have to be a hardass and be tough on them to drive the point home? There are women here who also agree with us on a more likely better course of action.

I gave you a link on 180 - that is where you start #1, period.
You are doing everything wrong. The letter didn't work for a reason, and you were TOLD it wouldn't work. Pretty much ALL of us have done things wrong - its just a matter of how much and how badly we screwed up.

You are NOT going to NICE her into loving you. She doesn't want you touching her.
So, why keep doing the same thing over and over again... what next, a box of chocolates and flowers? Another house? Or get a POD delievered to store more useless crap for her to spend YOUR money on.

So what if she gets mad that YOU are sleeping on the mattress YOU paid for? She can sleep there, or the sofa or the basement. Don't sleep another night in the basement.
When my wife got back with her affair apartner the last time, we had talked at a public place. She was gonna sleep *IN MY* bed for a few months before moving out. WTF?! It took me a few minutes to work that out in my head as I walked away disgusted and madder than hell. I'm supposed to sleep in the same bed or sofa and have that drama in my home. Hell no. I told her if she attempted to come into my home, I would call the police. She knew I wasn't joking. She didn't dare try. For 3 days she only had her clothes she was wearing. It was the right thing to do.

Do 180... its for you. Its to help clear your mind. yeah, we understand that you love your wife - you want to work things out. She has said no, she wants you gone.
Don't move out. File against her when you are ready... there is a chance she is already getting ready to file against you. #1 rule about this situation, the one who files first *IS* in the stronger position. You file against her for any number of reasons. Since she no longer wants you to touch her, she is either sleeping with someone else *OR* is open to having sex with someone else - very very easily. women logic. "Now that we are seperated, I can date or have sex with whoever I want". 

So you need to imagine that... would you still want her, knowing she is having sex with other men? Not saying that she is... but who knows. Everything seems to have gone to crap all of the sudden, right? When someone - especially a woman, starts an affair - they can burn down their entire family within weeks, maybe even a few days. Who knows. I forgot or don't recall - does she work at all? Even a SAHM can get some on the side.

You both are at each others throats too, isn't helping. It just that you are the only who is trying to save the marriage, right? It seems that she has pulled the trigger first, to end it. When a woman's brain has left the marriage - it is very difficult for that to ever change.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The advice you think that your MIND needs, and the advice that your MARRIAGE needs are on very different ends of the spectrum right now. And you are not only hearing from bitter husbands... me for example. Single woman, been through 3 divorces, two of which I initiated. And I can tell you that throwing yourself at her feet will only serve to drive her away faster. Its pathetic and weak, and only drives home the reasoning for wanting out. 

No one is telling you to become cold and uncaring. Detaching helps to get you into a better headspace that can help you should you need to move forward without her, and it gives HER space away from you, but where she can still see what you are doing. I think your wife may have some fear of you, due to the angry outbursts you have shared here. I think that fear made her way overreact to the incident where you ended up pushing her. (grabbing her? whatever) I honestly dont think your intention was to cause her any kind of harm. So she isnt going to view your groveling and ass kissing as signs that you will/have changed. You need to work on yourself with therapy or anger management or something, live calmly and businesslike with her, and she may take notice that you mean it. It may be tempting to overcompensate for things you've done by becoming a marshmallow, but DONT. Dont do that. 

I still stand by the opinion that you take yourself out of the basement. You dont have to be an ass in doing this, just matter of fact that you refuse to give up your space. I am VERY strong in my belief that the one who WANTS out GETS out. Especially in a situation like yours where YOU are the one doing all the providing. Also, start clearing some of that crap OUT. Pick one room that you are going to designate as yours, and start clearing it out. Your wife needs HELP, as in THERAPY to get to the bottom of her hoarding. Your wife is not innocent in the downfall of this marriage, she contributed by prioritizing children over husband, not contributing financially in a real way, and by valuing CRAP/THINGS over respect for her home and family. She doesnt even do the "job" she is supposed to as the SAHM and take care of the cooking and cleaning. So what real purpose is she even serving at this point beyond driving your kids around? 

My last point... do you really love her? Do you REALLY want to spend the next 35 years of your life with her? Because in all honesty, I am not feeling much love coming from your posts. Keep in mind, she will never be a real partner until she gets herself some real help.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

It's really messed up to blame the children for this. Even if they were the cause of the change, that change is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. It happened to your parents. And theirs. The woman no longer belongs to you, she has a higher priority than your neediness.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

OP, take a deep breath and then ask this question. If your wife is determined to end the marriage, can you save it on your own? The answer is clearly no. If she wants to leave you can't stop her.

Now ask yourself another question, and this one is harder. Is everything that is currently wrong in the marriage your fault? I expect the answer is also no.

Your wife still has a lot of advantages from the marriage (for example financial support) while rejecting the bits she doesn't want. And she probably doesn't have a totally realistic perspective on what she is doing, or what you bring to the table.

So you need to find a balance. First, it may be you are headed for divorce, and will not be able to prevent it. So you need to prepare emotionally and financially. Your kids need you to do that. Second, you need to tread a delicate balance with your wife. On the one hand don't do anything to make things worse, but on the other hand, why should she get everything she wants? Saying "no" in a realistic and considered way might make her stop and think. And if she sees you preparing for divorce, it might make her stop and think. Might. Because it's very easy for her to treat you like this, but it gets a bit more serious when she starts to experience some of what she will experience in the event of divorce.

You don't need to be nasty to her, just firm. And don't feel too bad about it. After all, she's not treating you totally fairly. Why should you just take it?


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## crocus (Apr 8, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> What struck me..between the ears, was the detail of your recollection, of your very-long dirty-laundry list..... of slights aimed your wife.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This. There is nothing wrong with your memory. You just forgot the things you did, or prefer not to say. That way, it isn't your fault. Go back to counselling yourself. First step. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

alwaysconfusedandlost said:


> I don't want her to leave the home, and she doesn't want me around if she doesn't leave.


But she sure is willing to let *you* continue paying for the house, all the bills, and everything else..right? She wants that separation but she's not willing to pay for it.

It's about time her lazy ass got a job. Playing with her crafts all day and being a ***** probably won't look so good on her resume, though.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> But she sure is willing to let *you* continue paying for the house, all the bills, and everything else..right? She wants that separation but she's not willing to pay for it.
> 
> It's about time her lazy ass got a job. Playing with her crafts all day and being a ***** probably won't look so good on her resume, though.


So harsh, SSGI?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Duguesclin said:


> If she did not care, she would not have troubled herself by going downstairs to throw the letter on your bed.


Wrong.

She does nothing ELSE all day so it required very little effort.

That letter made me heave. I was fully expecting your last paragraph to read:

"And when you're done reading this letter, please call me and I'll rush right in, lie face down on the floor, and you can wipe your shoes all over my back."

Don't ever humiliate yourself like that again, OP.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

jld said:


> So harsh, SSGI?


Yes ma'am.

I just see a lazy, selfish pampered woman who has NO respect for her meal ticket at all. 

Sorry. :|


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