# Coming here makes me sad.



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I get sad when I read the posts here. I have a unique perspective on these problems because I have cheated, been cheated on and dated cheating wives over the last 50 years. Then I entered into what is called a poly triad with my wife and her BFF since childhood. She spent a lot of time with us for various reasons and felt like family. One night we made it physical and moved her into her own room in our home. We had a very happy and fun filled triad for most of the 45 years of my marriage. We are currently monogamous due to our age and medical problems. After a few thousand threesomes, I am exhausted. :grin2:

I chose non monogamy because I had my heatr broken twice. First by my fiancee of 5 years and then a girlfriend who lived with me about a year. The first cheated on me with one of my friends that she knew through me. This is a common situation since most women in a relationship do not get to be with men outside of work or their social circle. The second gf got high and announced to me and my 3 best friends that she wanted us to gang bang her. She was gone the next day but I did let my friends have fun with her first. Why not, she was not my wife, did not own her body and I did not love her.

Just a little about me. You would think that I would not find the posts about cheating spouses sad, but I do. I have experienced the heartbreak of being cheated on. The first one was worse than some I read here because it happened when I was in Vietnam and had no contact other than snail mail and would not see her for another 9 months if I lived. Imagine finding out that your spouse is cheating and it will be 9 months before you are back home and cannot talk to her. 

For the second one, I was still young and naive and just happy to have a girlfriend after a year fighting in Vietnam. I did not even know that the funny taste when we had oral sex was semen from other men, until the breakup. I told you that I was naive. That is why when I read some of the stories where the spouse misses all the warning signs, it reminds me of me. She came home late from work, visited an out of town girlfriend who I never saw or spoke to. I never checked up on her. I just believed her.

I will speak as a man but most of what I say also applies to women. When we are in a monogamous relationship we all feel that our partners will never cheat. People swear on that. Then when some things look out of kilter, we tend to ignore them because we do not want to believe that our mates may be cheating on us. We start to believe the lies we are told because it is easier to believe them than accept the alternative.

We also tend to want to forgive a cheating spouse because you have built a life together, may have children and he or she may be a great parent and provider. The problem is that we cannot forget and I read a lot of posts that overlook that part or minimize it. It takes many years to regain a broken trust and soon the eager forgiveness wears off and you start seeing signs of cheating that may be cheating, or not. Then you remember that your spouse lied to you the last them they were cheating too so why should you believe them now. That is usually the beginning of the end. Most cannot live being suspicious of their partner for the rest of their lives and the cheater cannot live year after year being under scrutiny and having to report his or her every move. The non cheating spouse becomes a live in probation officer. 

Loveless marriages get to me too. I do not understand why people fall out of love. Perhaps they really were not in love in the first place and just thought they were.

The other big thing is problems with sex. Libidos differ between people and it has been my experience that once a woman snags you :grin2: they no longer want to do the sexual things that they really did not enjoy like oral. If the husband enjoyed them, that becomes a problem. I have found that good sexual communications and trying new things, helps a lot. The only people I knew who lost their sex drive completely are older women past menopause. 

Then there are the posts where a spouse confesses or is caught cheating. I was told by a psychologist friend that you should never confess. People confess to alleviate their guilt. It is better to never do it again and keep quiet about it than to be selfish and want to make yourself feel better by dumping it on your spouse and shattering his/her wonderful world. If you are never going to do it again, why tell him? It server no purpose other than your own.

I read some advice to cheating spouses. It was to deny, deny, deny no matter what. The idea was that the non cheating spouse wants to believe that you are not cheating, and will grasp at straws rather than accept that you cheated. I have seen this happen. Over time, the good spouse blocks out what really happened and starts to accept what he was told. The other thing I learned was that a cheater will never tell you the true story. It will always be minimized, that they did it only once, that it is all about sex and no emotions, do not really like him/her as a person, was drunk, etc.. The experienced cheating wives I dated were great at turning their enraged husbands around and making them believe it was all their fault. They said that they cheated because they fellt unloved, lonely, or something else, and that is why they cheated. They were driven to cheat. I see some of that here, where the spouse posts about blaming themselves. I am not saying that we do not do things to make our spouses unhappy, but instead of banging a bunch of people, you should communicate to your spouse what is wrong. At least give you spouse a chance to fix things. Don't kill me for this, but women expect men to know what is bothering them. The old silent treatment. Half the time the husband does not even know there is a problem. I have been there myself.

The last thing that makes me sad reading post, other than having to read this really long one, is that there seems to be a lack of communication between spouses. Sexual problems, emotional problems, whatever problems, are not discussed with the spouse. Instead they post about it, ask use if we knew what to do and communicate with us rather than tell their spouse. If you find it difficult to discuss things, try emailing. That I what I sometimes do and it works great.

Let me end this. I am getting sad just writing it. Perhaps the major problem for me is that I am in a very happy marriage that survived many decades and was able to make my wife and our girlfriend feel loved, desired, sexy and attractive. Being taken for granted was the reason given to me by most cheating women, for cheating. You stop telling each other that they are sexy, hot, desirable, attractive, a great person and the first person who comes along that makes you feel desirable and attractive again, is like a magnet. Add a few drinks and perhaps loneliness and stress at home and you are very vulnerable. 

I surround myself with people married longer than me. We live like the old TV shows. We all love our spouses and get together as couples and everyone is happy. I knew people got divorced, in fact 50% of them, but never got the details that I read her. Most times the problems they post about could be fixed with effective communication. 

I do not need a marriage counselor to find out what is wrong in my marriage. I just ask my wife and she tells me. She is never wrong.  We eliminated some of the major reasons for cheating; we had no kids, no financial problems and there could be no cheating because we were all allowed to have sex with others although that did not happen as much as it does with monogamous couples we knew. I made both women feel good about themselves and still chase my wife around making her feel sexy even though she is 64, wrinkled and sporting some scars from major surgery. She asks me why I find her sexy and I tell her the truth; when I look at her I see the young hot girl that I married. I do not see the faults. It also helps if you have sex with lowlights. :wink2:

So many problems and so sad. with 70% of men cheating and 50-60% of women, who are catching up, why does the majority of humans prefer serial monogamy over alternatives? As as student of all things, I do know that humans do not share well. That is very evident in our world where their are the haves and have nots. It is the same with our spouses. Despite what we may say, there is still a little of that he or she belongs to me left over from the days when wives were considered property and men were paid dowries to take them off their father's hands. We think we are civilized but all we have done is dress things in new clothes. Three is no reason why having sex with another is bad other than that we say it is. Emotions are like that. The physical changes to your body when sexually aroused and jealous are the same. It is that we label them according to the circumstances. This is why so many men these days want to watch her wives with other men. They see is so much online that instead of labelling their feeling as jealousy, they call it arousal. We do this with other emotions too. Love and hate for instance.

If you remember nothing else, remember this: A happy wife means a happy life. Number 2 on my list is to never marry someone you are sexually incompatible with. That leads to sexual frustration. Third and last is, never marry someone because you think you can change them. Adults rarely change. They are past their developmental stage. It rarely works. Our girlfriend married a drunk. She thought she could change him. When that did not work, she thought having a baby would change him. She ended up finding him in a bar drinking with the baby on his lap. What you see is what you get and if you are not 100% sure that he or she is what you want as they are, don't marry. That is so much better than going through a divorce. One last thing that I noticed is that guys sometimes marry the first girl who gives them regular sex. It took them years to find someone to do that and they do not want to wait a few more years to find someone else. If you have a low opinion or lack of self confidence, you are going to want to keep what you have no matter their faults.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OMG. Soooo much to pick apart in here.

Seriously, it's a freaking treasure trove of immorality.

For now, though, I think I'll just say...

Blah blah blah blah blah


----------



## RockSteady1 (Feb 5, 2016)

I don't know if it's so easy to put statistics on cheating because the very definition of the word changes from person to person. For one person cheating might be defined as having intercourse, while for another it might even be the thought about cheating, or a kiss. So it's really hard to determine how many people cheat on their partners.

I also know that it's completely possible to cheat even in open relationships. A lot of open relationships/marriages still have rules or expectations on how their relationships work. Communication breakdowns, affairs, sexual problems...they happen in every type of relationship. I think it's fantastic that you don't have those issues in your relationship, that's truly wonderful, but for 99% of the world is doesn't work that way. And that is the pain, but also the beauty of relationships. There is a reason why when you ask a person about love, they will tell you about their greatest heartbreak. 

i.e cheating I also don't think that not telling your partner is a very good idea. If you have hurt someone, you should own up to that. Is it ok to hit someone with your car on the road and just drive away if no one saw you do it? (Ok maybe a little dramatic)... but is it ok to make a big decision (buy a car, house, have child) without talking to your partner about it? It involves them so they have the right to know. That is my opinion.

I am not against any type of relationship as I feel it's every person's right to decide what is best for themselves, but I am straight and I choose to be with just one man at a time. I don't cheat or think it's ok to cheat. And I definitely don't think that choosing to be in an open relationship (or any other type of relationship) because you've tried the monogamous thing and been cheated on (and gotten hurt) is a very good reason to avoid 1-1 relationships. The thing about relationships is that you are never truly invested unless you are prepared to get hurt. It's just a reality of life. You enter a relationship and you have no idea what is going to happen...it might last, maybe it won't, maybe you'll end up heartbroken in the end... but the point is putting yourself out there and being vulnerable and saying....hey, this is me and I like you and yeah I know we might not work out but let's give this thing a shot anyway... 

It's a beautiful thing.


----------



## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

All I can say is I agree with the OP 100%. My wife and I have an open marriage, and it is great. We had a bad time during a bout of "normal" marriage and once we worked things out we decided we wanted to be open again after many years. Since then it has been better than ever and she is into much more than in the past.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

happy2gether said:


> All I can say is I agree with the OP 100%. My wife and I have an open marriage, and it is great. We had a bad time during a bout of "normal" marriage and once we worked things out we decided we wanted to be open again after many years. Since then it has been better than ever and she is into much more than in the past.


How awesome for you. 

Do either of you make a habit of "dating" married men or women w/o the knowledge and approval of their spouses?


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

RockSteady1 said:


> I am not against any type of relationship as I feel it's every person's right to decide what is best for themselves, but I am straight and I choose to be with just one man at a time. I don't cheat or think it's ok to cheat. And I definitely don't think that choosing to be in an open relationship (or any other type of relationship) because you've tried the monogamous thing and been cheated on (and gotten hurt) is a very good reason to avoid 1-1 relationships. The thing about relationships is that you are never truly invested unless you are prepared to get hurt. It's just a reality of life. You enter a relationship and you have no idea what is going to happen...it might last, maybe it won't, maybe you'll end up heartbroken in the end... but the point is putting yourself out there and being vulnerable and saying....hey, this is me and I like you and yeah I know we might not work out but let's give this thing a shot anyway...
> 
> It's a beautiful thing.


And very beautifully said.


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I agree many sad posts but great advice.I believe every marriage and or relationship will have sad moments or some kind of drama. I've seen some great advice on here and some horrible. It's interesting to see many different viewpoints and the extremes (with feedback). Personally, I tell my husband how I feel and or if there's an issue. I do not hide how I'm feeling. What I come here for is outside thoughts and share the feedback with my husband. He's looked at it for himself. It's helped him to see others viewpoints and has helped me as well. For that, I'm thankful for stumbling on this site.


----------



## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

no, my wife and I prefer couples so everyone knows. if it is a single person, then no issue but we do our best to be sure they are single and not a cheater.


----------



## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Vinny 
Coming here makes you sad? 
Well, I gotta tell ya Vin, your post made me depressed.
VH


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Vinny you post was a head spinner. 

You mentioned how painful your fiancé cheating was to you. Then you stated you had been with many cheating wives. The discount is stagging, boarding on the actions of a socio path. What would you say to one of these men if they asked you why did you chose to hurt me so badly ? 

Your relationship sounds both poly and open. Huh ? Reading your post seems to prove my suspicion that those in an open or poly relationship are people not capable of forming fully intimate relationships due to a lack of empathy. 

Really interested in my your answer to my question.


----------



## Beenthere_Donethat (Feb 6, 2016)

A few thousand threesomes? Youre lucky your prick dont drop off. On a serious note, the ex wife and I tried an open relationship towards the end of our marriage. It was the final nail in the coffin for us. She's dating one of them now.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Your lifestyle is not superior to mine.

I am very strongly and naturally monogamous.

I've never cheated or been cheated on.

I agree with you about communication.

I have always communicated my disdain and loathing for infidelity to my partners and now my wife.

We are into our 25th year, have hotter than porn star sex and it keeps getting better.

I'm glad you are happy in your marriage and I hope God gives me as much time with my wife as you have had with yours.

I hope you stick around.

You have some good advice but promote your lifestyle inappropriately at times.

Your cheating with married women was complete and utter bullshyt.

I think you were wise not to have children.

Thank you for your military service.

People that have sex with more than just their spouse are not more disciplined, honorable, faithful or truthful than people that don't.

Have a good Superbowl weekend.

Cheers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> So many problems and so sad. with 70% of men cheating and 50-60% of women, who are catching up, why does the majority of humans prefer serial monogamy over alternatives.


I'd say it's because most women cannot separate emotions from sex. They get emotionally attached to the guy who screws them. 

I'll guess that most guys could screw multiple women without getting attached, and if it was my choice I'd probably be ok with it, but the thought of other guys sticking their penises in my girlfriends mouth, vj and ass is more than a little repulsive to me, plus she'd probably get attached to one or more guys. Then you've also got possible complications if proper precautions aren't taken, including STDs and her getting knocked up by another guy. Seems so not worth it for a cheap meaningless thrill. We're not animals.. ya know?

When it comes down to it, all of the above not withstanding, I just don't like to share, and I'd never cheat on her. So to me, it's not worth the tradeoff.


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

sorry duplicate post, intended to edit not repost.


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

^^^^ all of this. 100% (ConanHub post)

When feelings are involved, compassion and or empathy is necessary in my book. I don't care what I've done in my past ect that hasn't molded me into one who doesn't care about another's emotional state. I wouldn't place myself in situations that could cause pain to someone else's spouse. I would feel remorse and or sad for the cheated on spouse. I don't care how alone the one who cheated portrayed his/her spouse to get to their choice of stepping out their marriage. There's always two sides and then the actual truth. I like to think on incidents from multiple standpoints and not just how I perceive a situation.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Hmmm... Coming here makes you sad...
Well, that's easy...Don't come then


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

italianjob said:


> Hmmm... Coming here makes you sad...
> Well, that's easy...Don't come then


Would a therapist say that to a patient?


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

The Truth About The Divorce Rate Is Surprisingly Optimistic



> If numbers continue to go down, roughly two-thirds of marriages will never involve divorce, according to data from Wolfer


A big part of the 50% divorce rate are those under 25 with only a high school education, no job, and are repeat offenders.

If you marry above the age of 25, college education and have a job your likelihood is much lower than 50%


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

^ Just because the divorce rates might be going down, does not mean that people are getting along any better.

It's just more complicated and expensive to get divorced, that's all.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

header said:


> Would a therapist say that to a patient?


1. There is no real personal problem stated in the OP, nor it looks like the poster is looking for advice, so your comment is non pertinent.

2. If a patient (and the OP doesn't sound like a patient) went to a therapist and said that the sessions cause him to feel sad, while he normally isn't, I guess it's likely the therapist would advise him to stop the therapy, since it sounds that he doesn't benefit from it.

3. Cheer up, not everything is deadly serious, even on internet forums :surprise:


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

italianjob said:


> 1. There is no real personal problem stated in the OP, nor it looks like the poster is looking for advice, so your comment is non pertinent.


Just because the Op does not openly state a personal problem or ask for specific advice does not mean they do not have a personal problem or that they don't receive value from reading the posts of others.



italianjob said:


> 2. If a patient (and the OP doesn't sound like a patient) went to a therapist and said that the sessions cause him to feel sad, while he normally isn't, I guess it's likely the therapist would advise him to stop the therapy, since it sounds that he doesn't benefit from it.


I doubt a therapist would suggest discontinuing therapy just because a patient feels sad; and just because a patient may feel sad or even cry during therapy does not mean they are not benefiting from it. I'll go a step further and say that patients who are sad and cry during therapy ARE benefiting from working through those "negative" emotions that are obviously there and waiting to come out. If you keep this stuff in your head there is potential for much greater damage. 



italianjob said:


> Cheer up, not everything is deadly serious, even on internet forums :surprise:


Let me get through this box of tissues first.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

header said:


> Just because the Op does not openly state a personal problem or ask for specific advice does not mean they do not have a personal problem or that they don't receive value from reading the posts of others.


So Enlighten me! What did I interrupt the OP from getting advice about?




header said:


> I doubt a therapist would suggest discontinuing therapy just because a patient feels sad; and just because a patient may feel sad or even cry during therapy does not mean they are not benefiting from it. I'll go a step further and say that patients who are sad and cry during therapy ARE benefiting from working through those "negative" emotions that are obviously there and waiting to come out. If you keep this stuff in your head there is potential for much greater damage.


What is the terrible stuff that is causing damage here? 


My take on this is that you responded to a tongue-in-cheek and rather unharmful post in the righteous and offended way you would reply to someone taking lightly a major problem (like infidelity or such) but it just wasn't the case here... 

This is just a discussion post so it's ok if you put your guns down...


----------



## header (Nov 14, 2015)

italianjob said:


> So Enlighten me! What did I interrupt the OP from getting advice about?


Where did I say you interrupted anyone from getting advice? You may be confusing this thread with another, happens all the time.



italianjob said:


> What is the terrible stuff that is causing damage here?


See my response above.



italianjob said:


> My take on this is that you responded to a tongue-in-cheek and rather unharmful post in the righteous and offended way you would reply to someone taking lightly a major problem (like infidelity or such) but it just wasn't the case here...
> 
> This is just a discussion post so it's ok if you put your guns down...


If I do that how do I know you won't shoot me?


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

header said:


> If I do that how do I know you won't shoot me?


Easy... I'm leaving the saloon... :wink2:


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

header said:


> Would a therapist say that to a patient?


LOL.

I'd be willing to bet that more than a few therapists have wound up saying something similar to some of their patients.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I always like your posts, Vinny. You are thoughtful, polite, and, respectful, which I appreciate.

For me, the alternative to monogamy is not being in a committed relationship. And this is OK for me. I've dated casually, been without male company, and been married (still am). It's all OK. What isn't OK for me is committing my heart to a man and then have him break it with lying and cheating. In my young years, with bf's who cheated, I had zero tolerance emotionally. Many people are like me. Their feelings die when they realize they've been lied to about something so fundamental. I won't share when it comes to something so personal & I won't be lied to.

Just me, Vinny, but I respect your feelings about yourself and your choices.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> Just me, Vinny, but I respect your feelings about yourself and your choices.


Even these choices?



Vinnydee said:


> ...I have cheated... and dated cheating wives over the last 50 years.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> I get sad when I read the posts here. I have a unique perspective on these problems because I have cheated, been cheated on and dated cheating wives over the last 50 years. Then I entered into what is called a poly triad with my wife and her BFF since childhood. She spent a lot of time with us for various reasons and felt like family. One night we made it physical and moved her into her own room in our home. We had a very happy and fun filled triad for most of the 45 years of my marriage. We are currently monogamous due to our age and medical problems. After a few thousand threesomes, I am exhausted. :grin2:
> 
> 
> I was told by a psychologist friend that you should never confess. People confess to alleviate their guilt. It is better to never do it again and keep quiet about it than to be selfish and want to make yourself feel better by dumping it on your spouse and shattering his/her wonderful world. If you are never going to do it again, why tell him? It serves no purpose other than your own.


Wisdom.

You sir, are the most interesting man in the world. 

Sent from Above


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

The reality is the world can be a sad place. I wouldn't want to spend years in a bubble of lies. A friend must've shared those words as a friend and not as a psychologist in a session. I respect how you have lived in a poly lifestyle as it may have worked for you. If you are capable to remember how you once had been hurt, why the lack of empathy or understanding for those cheated on husbands whom you slept with their wives?


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Military veterans have been known to exaggerate from time to time.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Apexmale said:


> Wisdom.
> 
> You sir, are the most interesting man in the world.
> 
> Sent from Above


So he's the one selling all that beer!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Vinnydee said:


> I was told by a psychologist friend that you should never confess. People confess to alleviate their guilt. It is better to never do it again and keep quiet about it than to be selfish and want to make yourself feel better by dumping it on your spouse and shattering his/her wonderful world. If you are never going to do it again, why tell him? It server no purpose other than your own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wisdom?

Hardly.

This is nothing more than a feeble attempt at disguising cowardice as mercy. It fails on many levels, but most especially in the assumption that the betrayed spouse will continue to languish in a broken marriage rather than choosing to end it.

In failing to confess his or her infidelity, a wayward is doing nothing less than keeping his or her betrayed in the marriage w/ a lie. The betrayed is being denied the choice that would otherwise be afforded by the truth.

Additionally, having already cheated, there's no way that a wayward can realistically know that he or she will never cheat again, and to state otherwise is as naive as it is ludicrous.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Wisdom?
> 
> Hardly.
> 
> ...


No wisdom.

Sent from Above


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I agree with some of what has been posted here but the part about women having no more sex drive after they have "snagged" a man. I am sure many men feel this way but that is not the case in my opinion. I do think there are sever all things that do happen. One, I think is hormones....men and women both experience a surge of hormones in the initial 1-3 years of a relationship, that stage that we call "blind." I do think as these love hormones subside both partners go back to who they were before these hormones took over our brain/body. Men have 8-10 times more desire for sex due to the differences in male and female hormones. Women are emotional thinkers and do best when their emotional well-being is cared for and I think for the majority this does happen early on in relationships but as time goes by, it is my experiences in 2 marriages, that men get very caught up in their own interests and the whole nurturing that occurred during dating goes out the window. men tend to focus, my perspective, on their sexual needs more than females so we have females and males coming from two different perspectives and two different priorities.

When I was single and dating (years ago) in my 20's one of the tings I heard over and over from men who had been married previously was that their wife didn't want sex. That for me was a red flag. That told me that these men were not doing their part to nurture the relationship with their wife. I believe that what happens outside of the bedroom effects what happens in the bedroom.

Of my many lady friends who have been divorced, or married 30 years or who are in love now and dating, our complaints of men and relationships are pretty much the same......men want sex but they are generally very selfish too. I will probably get bashed for that one but that's been my experience and the experience of my lady friends as well. Men want to play their video games, go fishing, drink with the guys, spend hours looking at porn on the internet and then wonder why their wife doesn't want to be touched when the only sharing or part of communication was a "how is the dog?" and quality time for the man seems to be having a living body in the house but not actually spending time together.

Men and women both cheat....you were one of the unfortunates to have been cheated on twice and it does burn and it does hurt and you lose trust, it makes one bitter. You ask yourself what is wrong with me, it blasts your self-esteem. I sure get it. Been married twice and both were cheats. My first husband, like you, wanted to bring another partner into our marriage. He wanted 3-somes and tried to convince me that this would be good for our, marriage. I refused so he started cheating behind my back. We were plenty active. If 3 days went by he would literally have a physical tantrum and tell me he was going out looking for someone to have sex with and would leave the house. I ended up just having sex with the man to please him and keep him from having his raging fits. I would lay there trying to put myself elsewhere, wishing it to be over and then I would cry later because it was not something I wanted to do. It did not keep him from cheating and when I found out about his last affair I vowed never again would I lay there and just have sex to appease my husband in an attempt to keep him from wondering. Even when he was with his affair lady we were having sex at least 3 times a week. This was a man who could not be satisfied.

My second husband who I am currently married to and have been for 23 miserable years is a sex and porn addict. I saw the addiction to wanting attention but unable to seek it and his desire for porn right from the start and we did a great deal of talking. I am a compassionate person and felt that we could overcome it. What was nice is that I actually had the chance to take the lead sexually where I had not had the opportunity in my first marriage. But at the same time this was a man who was not coming to me for sex, claimed he had to beg his first wife for sex and wouldn't do it again, (hum) but instead was seeking his satisfaction thru porn. Even after counseling and the porn was taken out of the home it did not change his approach to me. While I was showing interest in him and trying to get him to notice me and get him involved in the relationship he was flirting with other women trying to get them to laugh at his jokes. 

Our situations, your, mine and those of the people on this board cause us pain and many of us cannot see our own actions that have caused us the pain we have experienced. We want to blame and say the other person was a reason for our hurt. In the case of cheating, yes, that does hurt us but it is not a reflection of us....it is a reflection of the other person. That is their problem, their issues. Some men and women cheat their entire marriage and find justification but I believe that is because they cannot look in the mirror and face themselves.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> No wisdom.


Care to back up that assertion w/ more than what basically amounts to a few barely intelligible grunts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Care to back up that assertion w/ more than what basically amounts to a few barely intelligible grunts?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now this is hilarious! That's the equivalent of asking me to argue with a woman about feelings and emotions. An area in which you sir, reign as king. 

Sent from Above


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Now this is hilarious! That's the equivalent of asking me to argue with a woman about feelings and emotions. An area in which you sir, reign as king.


Nice try, but you'll have to do better than that.

I'm dealing in nothing more than logic and morality here, and you seem to lack the ability to truly grasp either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

header said:


> I'd say it's because most women cannot separate emotions from sex. They get emotionally attached to the guy who screws them.


female prostitute friends of mine would tend to disagree


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Nice try, but you'll have to do better than that.
> 
> I'm dealing in nothing more than logic and morality here, and you seem to lack the ability to truly grasp either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your posts are not much more than hurt feelings and hurt emotions. Void of intellect. Understandable with your history. But since we don't share that history, hurt feelings and emotions is an area that I know very little about nor wish to explore the area of hurt feelings and emotions. Anyone who doesn't engage here with hurt feelings and hurt emotions will never find your support, nor should they. 

So yea, I am not looking looking to grasp the concept of hurt feelings and emotions. 




Sent from Above


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Your posts are not much more than hurt feelings and hurt emotions. Void of intellect. Understandable with your history. But since we don't share that history, hurt feelings and emotions is an area that I know very little about nor wish to explore the area of hurt feelings and emotions. Anyone who doesn't engage here with hurt feelings and hurt emotions will never find your support, nor should they.
> 
> So yea, I am not looking looking to grasp the concept of hurt feelings and emotions.


Ha! Now I'M laughing.

Look, I get it. You're a cop. You "manage society".

So maybe a good day for you means nothing more than the general populace not beating their spouses, eating their children, or slaughtering themselves and each other wholesale in the streets.

Whether or not you realize it, though, or even care, you have a right to expect more than that from your spouse. We all do.

Given that monogamy is -- unless explicitly stated otherwise -- one of the underpinnings of marriage, each of us is at all times entitled to the truth regarding our spouses' adherence to it. Period.

Not into monogamy? That's fine. As long as everyone is on board and everything is above board, it's all good.

What is it about _any_ of this that seems outrageous to you?


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Ha! Now I'M laughing.
> 
> Look, I get it. You're a cop. You "manage society".
> 
> ...


Not a cop anymore, I've since moved into the area of security contracting to the federal government. Less regulation, fewer parameters, an increase demand for results. No excuses, no complaining. LE is becoming more about pleasing society than about actually protecting it. 

In regards to your other comment, I believe no one is entitled to anything in life, that's the simple truth. It's when you start believing in entitlements that a man begins to experience disappointments. 

My wife and I do not share an open marriage. But where you and I differ, is that we are not accepting of the status quo or the conventional. 

Based on your opposing posts against others, you appear to be clutching forcefully to dead ideas, past successes, and the need to maintain your normal status among others. It brings you comfort to be among those who exclusively share your mindset. My TAM king, I find comfort in being among those who DO NOT share my mindset. I am here to offer advice, not support. I also don't come here to take a stance against any member who has a different perspective on marriage, relationships, or life altogether whereas you frequently do. 

Entertaining normalcy and old ideas will ensure you more of your mediocre results. Nothing wrong with that though, this world needs all kinds of men. Even those with hurt emotions and hurt feelings.

Sent from Above


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I've noticed it more & more....the slow embracing of the *non monogamous lifestyle*...and still calling it marriage.. 

Our society is over turning.....some feel this is all for the better... some of us ...just don't...

Vinnydee's sharing of his story gives us insight to just HOW /Why what we do to each other can have a profound effect on so many around us.... whether this is in a good way... or bad ...

Betrayal & cheating will always devastate....it causes bitterness in people...if we allow it, it has the ability to steal our trust in others who come after...

This website is one of many embracing this new mindset... read  Open Minded 



> Society has come to a point where marriage has taken a downward turn because it no longer satisfies the needs of the modern woman or man. In search of happiness, people are relying less on stereotypical gender roles and traditional relationship paradigms. While monogamy is certainly not dead, a shift in societal ideals has taken place, as more and more couples are choosing to buck traditions in favor of unconventional relationship configurations.
> 
> For many, ‘monogamy’ is almost synonymous with ‘monotony’, which can lead lesser men (and women) to cheat. But that is not the only way to get what you want. Consider these:
> 
> ...


It's just a reminder when dating.. to be sure the person before us is on the same page...in regards to how they look upon sex / intimacy / marriage (however that may be defined in this day & age)...It's surely a "moral relativist" world we live in...


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I've noticed it more & more....the slow embracing of the *non monogamous lifestyle*...and still calling it marriage..
> 
> Our society is over turning.....some feel this is all for the better... some of us ...just don't...
> 
> ...


Wait till we start seeing same-sex marriage partners here in TAM.... the fighting among members will likely be INTENSE to say the least.

Sent from Above


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Wisdom?
> 
> Hardly.
> 
> ...


Sadly Gus, you're missing the point. Most confessors don't do so "for the marriage" or for their partner. sure they might tell themselves that, but pretty much without exception it is to alleviate their own discomfort and guilt (which they deal with by dumping the whole mess (or trickle as much as the think they can get away with)) onto their emotional other party/half.

They don't do it for the betterment of the marriage, they do it for the btterment of what they want out of the marriage..... which is hardly surprising because that selfishness is what leads to affairs in the first place !!


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> LE is becoming more about pleasing society than about actually protecting it.


:slap:

LOL

If you are so busy "pleasing" 'society' who are you serving and who are you watching? You are pleasing the minority in power, and watching the actual people in society.

But it's ok, it is well known that law enforcement actually refuse to employee people with higher than average IQ who are able to analyse such things.

Yes I'm sure you truly believe that you are "pleasing" to protect us against ourselves. while not letting the worst abusers, who are in government, thrive.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Apexmale said:


> Wait till we start seeing same-sex marriage partners here in TAM.... the fighting among members will likely be INTENSE to say the least.


I can think of couple...but forget the names now...you know what.. they were pleasant .... I am personally HUGE on free speech, freedom of the Press...not the politically correct type...would march in the streets for such things if they were threatened.. 

But true... we come from various walks of life, beliefs, experiences that have shaped & molded us...

I wouldn't want to belong to a forum where people are thrown out just for having different views / lifestyles... 

I am on the conservative side, more traditionally minded ...though I like porn so I alienate many of faith since I would be seen as sinful but also a segment of feminists for being too traditional (some correlate that with being sexist) ... I screw myself every time I post.. what can you do ! 

Let us just BE who we are .. all for it .


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Wait till we start seeing same-sex marriage partners here in TAM.... the fighting among members will likely be INTENSE to say the least.
> 
> Sent from Above


Not really.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> You are pleasing the minority in power, and watching the actual people in society.


Boom! You are correct.

Sent from Above


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Not a cop anymore, I've since moved into the area of security contracting to the federal government. Less regulation, fewer parameters, an increase demand for results. No excuses, no complaining. LE is becoming more about pleasing society than about actually protecting it.


Security as in keyboard, bank of monitors, or getting in peoples' faces all day?



Apexmale said:


> In regards to your other comment, I believe no one is entitled to anything in life, that's the simple truth. It's when you start believing in entitlements that a man begins to experience disappointments.


I am entitled to that which I have worked -- in good faith -- to obtain and achieve. And if that means fighting for any of it once it's been unjustly withheld, then so be it.



Apexmale said:


> My wife and I do not share an open marriage. But where you and I differ, is that we are not accepting of the status quo or the conventional.


I get that. And your marriage is your business. Do I have an opinion on it? Well sure. Still, your business.

And, again, so long as everything is above board and everyone is on board, there's no problem.

Still, should your wife step out of the defined parameters of your marriage in such a way that would indicate that her level of commitment to it is grossly unequal to that of yours, would you not want to know? You don't think you'd deserve to know? Would you honestly prefer to continue on, blissfully unaware of what was happening around you?



Apexmale said:


> Based on your opposing posts against others, you appear to be clutching forcefully to dead ideas, past successes, and the need to maintain your normal status among others. It brings you comfort to be among those who exclusively share your mindset. My TAM king, I find comfort in being among those who DO NOT share my mindset. I am here to offer advice, not support. I also don't come here to take a stance against any member who has a different perspective on marriage, relationships, or life altogether whereas you frequently do.


Ugh.

It's when I read uninspired doublespeak like ^this^ that it becomes obvious to me that it's possible to read too damn much while simultaneously reading too damn little.



Apexmale said:


> Entertaining normalcy and old ideas will ensure you more of your mediocre results. Nothing wrong with that though, this world needs all kinds of men. Even those with hurt emotions and hurt feelings.
> 
> Sent from Above


Again, you're going to have to do better than that.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Apexmale said:


> Wait till we start seeing same-sex marriage partners here in TAM.... the fighting among members will likely be INTENSE to say the least.
> 
> Sent from Above


My ex-bisexual gf had the end to one of her previous relationships (with her lesbian fiance) when she caught her partner In flagrante delicto with a man in their bed. the only thing her partner said is that, she just wanted some c*ck, because all women do really.

So did you really want some of thess marriages stories coming up?
Like the lesbian ones that end when one suddenly finds god and is "cured"...
Or the classic gay one where the guy finds out from his PA boyfriend that his partner is f..kin around, and it turns out the SW has done nearly the whole bar... cliche but true!!


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Security as in keyboard, bank of monitors, or getting in peoples' faces all day?



No keyboards, no monitors. Let's consider me unemployed.




GusPolinski said:


> Should your wife step out of the defined parameters of your marriage in such a way that would indicate that her level of commitment to it is grossly unequal to that of yours, would you not want to know? You don't think you'd deserve to know?




Defined parameters? There are none. We have boundaries that are constantly shifting. Our marriage is about companionship, not ownership. She is an adult, she makes her own decisions. And as an adult, she has the right to shift her attention to another man anytime she pleases. It's up to me as an adult to decide whether I'd accept that behavior or not. We've discussed that I would not. Vice Versa. To engage in spousal parenthood, spousal babysitting, and spy games is in our perspective, adolescent behavior. We won't do it.

Additionally, she was born owning her body and always reserves the right to decide who she shares it with. Marriage does not deny anyone that birth right. It's up to me to decide whether I'd accept her sharing it with another person. Again, we've discussed that I would not. Vice Versa. Our marriage is about companionship, not ownership.

Regarding your other question, I don't evaluate if my wife's level of commitment to our relationship is equal to mine. All I evaluate is my own commitment to it. I am responsible for constant evaluation of my own commitment and my own actions towards progress That's it. So no, I don't need to know or "deserve" to know. 

As Clint Eastwood put it... "Deserves got nothing to do with it."





Sent from Above


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Defined parameters? There are none. We have boundaries that are constantly shifting. Our marriage is about companionship, not ownership. She is an adult, she makes her own decisions. And as an adult, she has the right to shift her attention to another man anytime she pleases. It's up to me as an adult to decide whether I'd accept that behavior or not. We've discussed that I would not. Vice Versa. To engage in spousal parenthood, spousal babysitting, and spy games is in our perspective, adolescent behavior. We won't do it.
> 
> Additionally, she was born owning her body and always reserves the right to decide who she shares it with. Marriage does not deny anyone that birth right. It's up to me to decide whether I'd accept her sharing it with another person. Again, we've discussed that I would not. Vice Versa. Our marriage is about companionship, not ownership.
> 
> ...


Without offering any other input or asking any other questions (for now), I'd like to ask this...

How do you think you'd react if you were to discover that your wife _had_ chosen to share herself w/ another man?


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Without offering any other input or asking any other questions (for now), I'd like to ask this...
> 
> How do you think you'd react if you were to discover that your wife _had_ chosen to share herself w/ another man?


I'd start the discussion as to how we'd be handling the kids. 

I don't need to know who, I don't need to know when, don't even need to know why. I've got moves to make.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> I'd start the discussion as to how we'd be handling the kids.
> 
> I don't need to know who, I don't need to know when, don't even need to know why. I've got moves to make.


That's reasonable.

Now assume the following scenario...

Your wife has cheated, but you don't know about it.

Would you want to be told?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> That's reasonable.
> 
> Now assume the following scenario...
> 
> ...


Sure, but only for health reasons and not because "I feel I deserve" the truth. As an adult, she doesn't "need" to tell me anything she decides not to.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Sure, but only for health reasons and not because "I feel I deserve" the truth. As an adult, she doesn't "need" to tell me anything she decides not to.


So then you're OK w/ it so long as you don't know about it.

Right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> So then you're OK w/ it so long as you don't know about it.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Everyone does ok. It's when they find out, that decisions have to be made.

Would I be angry? No. She is an adult, she makes her own decisions. Getting angry wouldn't harm anyone but myself. What good is there in that? 

Sent from Above


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Apexmale said:


> Everyone does ok. It's when they find out, that decisions have to be made.
> 
> Would I be angry? No. She is an adult, she makes her own decisions. Getting angry wouldn't harm anyone but myself. What good is there in that?
> 
> Sent from Above


I'm not talking about being hurt or angry, but rather what I believe to the right of pretty much everyone everywhere to the truth w/ respect to his or her spouse's fidelity. If your wife decides to operate outside of the parameters or "shifting boundaries" (or however you want to term it) of your marriage, then you are absolutely entitled to that truth, and I just can't understand how anyone could disagree w/ this.

None of this is about ownership. Not in the least.

It's about being made aware of the fact that one's spouse hasn't been true to either the implicit or explicit boundaries understood to exist within their marriage.

It's about being afforded the dignity of an informed choice w/ respect to your one's own continued participation in his or her marriage. After all, not being aware of the truth doesn't keep it from being the truth.

It's about knowing that your health has been -- and is possibly still _being_ -- put at risk.

And, in extreme cases, it's about knowing that your children may eventually be exposed to a person -- or persons -- of very poor character. Perhaps even criminally such.

Maybe you've seen so much bad from so many people that you don't expect anything from anyone. But you _should_ expect more from your wife.

If you don't share any of these opinions, that's fine. I don't get it, but whatever. That's far too "don't ask, don't tell" for most people, and I can't imagine that any relationship operating on such terms would contain any meaningful component of intimacy.


----------



## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I'm not talking about being hurt or angry, but rather what I believe to the right of pretty much everyone everywhere to the truth w/ respect to his or her spouse's fidelity. If your wife decides to operate outside of the parameters or "shifting boundaries" (or however you want to term it) of your marriage, then you are absolutely entitled to that truth, and I just can't understand how anyone could disagree w/ this.
> 
> None of this is about ownership. Not in the least.
> 
> ...


I absolutely expect more from my wife, more than any other person on earth. She isn't REQUIRED to be truthfull to anyone, I can only hope that she is. If I find out, things change. If I don't, it mostly remains the same. This is the circumstance for everyone. 

But my reality is in regards to "entitlements". As a reminder, I am employed by our federal government (and have been by municipal governments as well) and "truth" is commonly withheld for the better of society. The reality is that we don't live in some fantasy world where we get what we "deserve". If there is no more of a reality that I have learned is that "truth" is a luxury. We can absolutely function without it. We've even become a society where we are more comfortable being lied to than being told the truth. 

I don't feel I "deserve" truth, that's just setting myself up for disappointment as many people here already have. What I do deserve, is a better person. But I don't need thier truth for that. I need maturity and sound decision.

Sent from Above


----------

