# Interesting discussion with my wife



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

So my wife has this younger friend - she's about 25 - 30 years old, and for some reason the young friend proceeds to tell my wife that they had sex 2 times in the last 7 days. My wife told her that we had it every other day, and it practically blew her mind. So...guessing that having sex twice in 7 days was an aberration for them? So my wife got the questions from her like "do you even wear underwear" or "do you wear sweats during the day for easier access"... LOL. So my wife's friend talks about this to her female coworkers (teachers, if it means anything, not sure) and they all agree that we are very unusual in the amount of sex that we have. Some of the comments from her coworkers were along the lines of "I'd never let my husband have sex with me that much" - basically the tone of the conversations seemed to be more about a power struggle or using sex as a means of barter and control. Back to the wife's talk with her friend as a follow up - wife asks if her husband was fine with so little sex and her friend said that he'd like more sex, that he's always pawing at her and that she will smack him sometimes because he's constantly trying to grope her.

Then the friend asks my wife some questions. A short time ago she came to pick up her kid and saw me washing things up in the kitchen and she asked "Because you have so much sex does your husband regularly wash things up like that without being asked?". Wife answers "yes, and he's scrubbed the kitchen and done all sorts of other things to help me out". I don't know if my wife told this to her friend or not, but during our exchange about this situation my wife told me "I don't get why she would hold out giving sex so much because I enjoy having a less stress around the house where we can joke around and spend time together without having so much tension between us". Also, I'm not pawing at my wife trying to grope her constantly, but I admit to doing that once in awhile...

Now is my wife in the mood all the time? No. I have the higher drive. But I asked her based on this convo and her telling me that she's sometimes not in the mood but has sex with me, she said no that she's fine with how things are. I pressed a little to be sure there isn't any lingering issue out there or anything and she told me "you know this already, I am usually flat when I get close to my period so during the last few days before my period it's all about you - basically the "loving duty sex" discussed in another thread. 

So while everything is fine, this exchange did make her question herself as to whether she's too easy going, not strict enough of a parent and all sorts of other soul searching thoughts. I did my best to reassure her that she's a great mom and wife, but I must admit that these types of convos can get me a little uneasy. But I will say that if we at TAM are actually the minority and the silent majority are more like this young couple...how sad of a marriage is that! It sounds like so much of it is based on tension, power struggles, transactions and a lack of teamwork - the young guy does not jump through hoops in any way to make his wife's life easier probably due to that lack of connection.

As dumb as it sounds, it feels like I'm going to have to be alert for the next couple of weeks because this conversation seems to have bothered my wife (she and her young friend that is). I think we'll be fine, but...DAMN!! Me traveling a lot these past couple of weeks and her being the main parent during this time I think has gotten to her and she needs to decompress. For some reason, it's taking her a little longer than typical.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I don't understand. Are you afraid your wife is going to suddenly start behaving like her friend? What are you uneasy about?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I don't understand. Are you afraid your wife is going to suddenly start behaving like her friend? What are you uneasy about?


I think that is it. I've been traveling a lot lately, she's been holding down the fort at home, so maybe I'm having irrational fears. In fact, the fears are most likely irrational based on my years of interaction with her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

What a superb lesson in not assuming that your particular situation is the norm. And congratulations on being above average.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

My wife had a similar discussion with another mom at the school bus stop. This woman kept it to once per week on a particular day provided he was good she would unlock her legs. They were young at the time and he was on deployment and due back soon and she bragged that chores x,y&z would need to be done before her legs would unlock when he got home. It seemed like she got pleasure from the control. His rotation changed and they moved away years ago. I would like to see how their marriage fared. 

Unlike your wife mine said nothing about ours which caused the woman to keep fishing for awhile. This told memshe was more of a gossip/control freak than anything. To your post her behavior didn't change my wife's at all. She felt sorry for the husband more than anything.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I have sympathy for LD folks, but I have zero sympathy for that kind of behavior. You must do X,Y and Z before I'll "allow" you to have sex....nope--see you.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> What a superb lesson in not assuming that your particular situation is the norm. And congratulations on being above average.


Honestly, the OP wasn't trying to solicit advice so much as just share something that seems so unnecessary and ridiculous. It's also humbling to me because honestly, I thought people were having more sex on average. I guess I'm much more of an odd duck than I thought. It makes me feel sad but very appreciative of what we have too.

Hard to explain. Maybe it's certain assumptions that I had and took for granted are no longer valid. OR...maybe my wife was talking to a dumbell and we experienced a goofy ass story...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

According to Kinsey, for those in their 30s, 2 out of every 3 marriages are having sex less than 2-3 times a week.

It only drops for those even older. By your fifties, less than one in 6 is having that much sex.

So no, you're not the norm. Again, congratulations.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> According to Kinsey, for those in their 30s, 2 out of every 3 marriages are having sex less than 2-3 times a week.
> 
> It only drops for those even older. By your fifties, less than one in 6 is having that much sex.
> 
> So no, you're not the norm. Again, congratulations.


I'm not sure if I believe those studies so much. I'm wondering if it's even worse than what the studies indicate. People will lie on surveys despite the anonymity of it - unless the study took that into account and smoothed data to account for it. When it comes to social science studies, I'm out of my element so not sure how that works.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Isn't that need called "acts of service" and part and parcel to actually unlocking the legs? I'm confused a bit between what is a need and what is considered "paying for sex". I'm not trying to relate it to marital prostitution. I just don't understand and am asking for help. If not the point of this thread, I apologise.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Isn't that need called "acts of service" and part and parcel to actually unlocking the legs? I'm confused a bit between what is a need and what is considered "paying for sex". I'm not trying to relate it to marital prostitution. I just don't understand and am asking for help. If not the point of this thread, I apologise.


I'll take a shot at this one, simplistically. 

My opinion is that it's the difference between him doing things that will translate into her _allowing_ him to have sex and doing things that make her _want_ to have sex.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I'll take a shot at this one, simplistically.
> 
> My opinion is that it's the difference between him doing things that will translate into her _allowing_ him to have sex and doing things that make her _want_ to have sex.


Bottom line? The difference is in the presence of love and respect in the relationship?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Reminded of a scene in a TV show where 3 women are having coffee (or wine) and talking. One says how often do you have sex. Another says twice, the other women both nod in approval. The second one says 3 to 4 times. They all nod and say her husband must be quite the stud, she says yes, but I really love to please him and I like it. The they look at the last lady and she say 3 times a week. The second ladies jaw drops and screams out a week, I thought you meant a day? The two other ladies look at her as say she is quite the ****.

Count your blessings and make sure you tell your wife how much you love her and cherish her. Also tell her how important the sex between you is and how it makes you feel so close to her and want to do thngs for her.

Good luck.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> Reminded of a scene in a TV show where 3 women are having coffee (or wine) and talking. One says how often do you have sex. Another says twice, the other women both nod in approval. The second one says 3 to 4 times. They all nod and say her husband must be quite the stud, she says yes, but I really love to please him and I like it. The they look at the last lady and she say 3 times a week. The second ladies jaw drops and screams out a week, I thought you meant a day? The two other ladies look at her as say she is quite the ****.
> 
> *Count your blessings and make sure you tell your wife how much you love her and cherish her. Also tell her how important the sex between you is and how it makes you feel so close to her and want to do thngs for her.*
> 
> Good luck.


Eggsfrickin'zackly(exactly)


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I remeber once after a big party my husband commented that he was the only one among guys not complaining about not enough sex...

I also start to think that 25-and up those in thirties with kids actually have less sex than many of those older couples with older kids.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi Plan, 

Because this thread is limited to those that need help, I am going to assume that you are not just bragging about your sex life and that you need some serious help. 

From the sounds of it, your wife's friend has really been queued into the fact that you are SERIOUSLY whipped and is horrified for you in a somewhat passive aggressive way. 

Yes Plan! Your instincts to be on the ALERT are correct. It is scientifically proven that when our instincts tell us something, that is your subconscious doing what you conscious can not process in favor of you meeting your long term goals of survival:

Why we're right to trust our gut instincts: Scientists discover first decision IS the right one | Daily Mail Online


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> I remeber once after a big party my husband commented that he was the only one among guys not complaining about not enough sex...
> 
> I also start to think that 25-and up those in thirties with kids actually have less sex than many of those older couples with older kids.


:iagree:

FIRMLY believe this. I think a lot of sexless marriages CAN improve if you stick it out and don't screw it up while kids are on the scene.

Not all, but a good number. The trick is knowing if your spouse is situationally LD because of focusing on kids vs situationally LD because you're a lousy spouse vs they're just naturally that way.

Those years in the late 20's and 30's i think are the hardest years to tell the difference.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> FIRMLY believe this. I think a lot of sexless marriages CAN improve if you stick it out and don't screw it up while kids are on the scene.
> 
> ...


Yes, we're talking about a young couple with a toddler. When we were younger, we didn't slow down while the kids were young, just did it more on the sly. 

What scared me a little was my wife wondered if she was too easy going. She was coming from a point of high stress due to my travels, and she later said that it was the stress talking. Kind of rattled me a little because I thought we were solid. We probably are, but I'll need to observe a little just in case.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I have sympathy for LD folks, but I have zero sympathy for that kind of behavior. You must do X,Y and Z before I'll "allow" you to have sex....nope--see you.



I don't mind the "transactional part" as much as I mind the raising of the bar and assorted resentment... At some point you simply pull the plug and that's all.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

meson said:


> My wife had a similar discussion with another mom at the school bus stop. This woman kept it to once per week on a particular day provided he was good she would unlock her legs. They were young at the time and he was on deployment and due back soon and she bragged that chores x,y&z would need to be done before her legs would unlock when he got home. It seemed like she got pleasure from the control. His rotation changed and they moved away years ago. I would like to see how their marriage fared.
> 
> Unlike your wife mine said nothing about ours which caused the woman to keep fishing for awhile. This told memshe was more of a gossip/control freak than anything. To your post her behavior didn't change my wife's at all. She felt sorry for the husband more than anything.


In very specific response to this post. This woman displays a very transactional attitude toward her H having sex with her. Similar to selling her sex. Thus my previous comment.

To elaborate, I believe this to be a very unhealthy and destructive attitude towards sex in marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

No harm in saying what's true at some point. 

This is what's true: aside from an adversarial marriage it's a very unstable marriage once the last child leaves the home. 






Plan 9 from OS said:


> So my wife has this younger friend - she's about 25 - 30 years old, and for some reason the young friend proceeds to tell my wife that they had sex 2 times in the last 7 days. My wife told her that we had it every other day, and it practically blew her mind. So...guessing that having sex twice in 7 days was an aberration for them? So my wife got the questions from her like "do you even wear underwear" or "do you wear sweats during the day for easier access"... LOL. So my wife's friend talks about this to her female coworkers (teachers, if it means anything, not sure) and they all agree that we are very unusual in the amount of sex that we have. Some of the comments from her coworkers were along the lines of "I'd never let my husband have sex with me that much" - basically the tone of the conversations seemed to be more about a power struggle or using sex as a means of barter and control. Back to the wife's talk with her friend as a follow up - wife asks if her husband was fine with so little sex and her friend said that he'd like more sex, that he's always pawing at her and that she will smack him sometimes because he's constantly trying to grope her.
> 
> Then the friend asks my wife some questions. A short time ago she came to pick up her kid and saw me washing things up in the kitchen and she asked "Because you have so much sex does your husband regularly wash things up like that without being asked?". Wife answers "yes, and he's scrubbed the kitchen and done all sorts of other things to help me out". I don't know if my wife told this to her friend or not, but during our exchange about this situation my wife told me "I don't get why she would hold out giving sex so much because I enjoy having a less stress around the house where we can joke around and spend time together without having so much tension between us". Also, I'm not pawing at my wife trying to grope her constantly, but I admit to doing that once in awhile...
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm not trying to threadjack but this is a classic case for me of "don't listen to what men say, watch their actions": statements.
> 
> Because while communication "works," if you have a thickheaded or otherwise oblivious spouse--as long as the sex is there they don't pay attention to other important issues...like pulling their weight.
> 
> I guess I don't care if that makes me sound transactional but it's true over here in my house. If I want to be taken seriously, I have to kill my own libido.


Ouch!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shake_It_Up (Apr 1, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> > According to Kinsey, for those in their 30s, 2 out of every 3 marriages are having sex less than 2-3 times a week.
> ...


I believe in this study 100%, just like I believe the penis size research that says I'm above average, when I've spent my life in locker rooms and know better. Lol DONT JUDGE ME. LMAO!!!


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm not trying to threadjack but this is a classic case for me of "don't listen to what men say, watch their actions": statements.
> 
> Because while communication "works," if you have a thickheaded or otherwise oblivious spouse--as long as the sex is there they don't pay attention to other important issues...like pulling their weight.
> 
> I guess I don't care if that makes me sound transactional but it's true over here in my house. If I want to be taken seriously, I have to kill my own libido.


As I stated in various threads, most men come to these boards when the sex life is unsatisfying. Meanwhile the wife may have been complaining about issues which already existed, he only notices when the sex decreases.

With my own husband, everything was hunky dory just as long as I was putting out on a regular basis...


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Plan 9, my H travels a lot too. I have noticed that when he is in frequent travel mode we tend to have sex almost every night, knowing that a dryspell is always right around the corner.

Holding down the fort can be rough, but then your wife sounds like a reasonable woman who probably realizes that it's not that much fun sleeping in a strange bed alone for days at a time either. That keeps resentment in check for me.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I've got one thing to add...."sex is the glue that keeps the relationship together"!

If some dumb @ss spouse is using sex as a transaction , power play or as a reward then that's one phucked up marriage.

But then again in my world I'm having sex...the question is if it will be by my self or with my old lady......I'm so good to my self sometimes

As far as resentment goes I wounder if my left hand resents my right hand....I'm right handed by the way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes, sex should not be used as a part of a transaction in marriage. 

Though I've seen a fair number of posts on TAM telling women that they should do that.. reward their husband for doing something and letting him know that is the plan. 

It should also never be done solely out of obligation/duty. 

Often times when a marriage gets to the point where the sex life is going downhill, the real problem is in the relationship.

The OP talks said that the younger woman was shocked that the OP does things like takes responsibility in things around the house as her husband does not. Well that tells a lot now doesn't it. Perhaps she feels that sex is the only place in the marriage where she get through to her husband.. it sounds like it just might be the only think he cares about. So she ends up using it in an unhealthy way in an unhealthy relationship. No surprise there.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yes, sex should not be used as a part of a transaction in marriage.
> 
> Though I've seen a fair number of posts on TAM telling women that they should do that.. reward their husband for doing something and letting him know that is the plan.
> 
> ...


To me, their marriage is a little strange. The H is a pretty good handyman around the house and he's kinda OCD about things wrt cleanliness. I would have thought that he'd be regularly cleaning his house. But based on the discussion between the wife and her friend it appears that he doesn't step up to the plate quite so much at home like I thought. Also, he does seem to put her down from time to time to the point that I thought it was their version of playful banter. Maybe it's not banter. 

Seems to me that if you don't have the communication up front and the mutual respect isn't there, things in the marriage that should be a positive sum game where everyone wins turns into a zero sum game where there are always winners and losers. That's no way to live IMHO.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm not sure if I believe those studies so much. I'm wondering if it's even worse than what the studies indicate. People will lie on surveys despite the anonymity of it - unless the study took that into account and smoothed data to account for it. When it comes to social science studies, I'm out of my element so not sure how that works.


I also suspect it is even worse than the surveys indicate. The real question is *why* so many couples are having so little sex, when it has genuine benefits for both parties...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> To me, their marriage is a little strange. The H is a pretty good handyman around the house and he's kinda OCD about things wrt cleanliness. I would have thought that he'd be regularly cleaning his house. But based on the discussion between the wife and her friend it appears that he doesn't step up to the plate quite so much at home like I thought. Also, he does seem to put her down from time to time to the point that I thought it was their version of playful banter. Maybe it's not banter.
> 
> Seems to me that if you don't have the communication up front and the mutual respect isn't there, things in the marriage that should be a positive sum game where everyone wins turns into a zero sum game where there are always winners and losers. That's no way to live IMHO.


I agree that it should be that way. But it's not sometimes. I'll bet that there are some serious problems in the marriage based on what you said about her and her marriage. I'm not saying it's all his fault. I'm saying that it takes two to tango and it sound like they are out of step from each other... both are out of step.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> To me, their marriage is a little strange. The H is a pretty good handyman around the house and he's kinda OCD about things wrt cleanliness. I would have thought that he'd be regularly cleaning his house. But based on the discussion between the wife and her friend it appears that he doesn't step up to the plate quite so much at home like I thought. Also, he does seem to put her down from time to time to the point that I thought it was their version of playful banter. Maybe it's not banter.
> 
> Seems to me that if you don't have the communication up front and the mutual respect isn't there, things in the marriage that should be a positive sum game where everyone wins turns into a zero sum game where there are always winners and losers. That's no way to live IMHO.


Agree. You sound like you have a really great relationship, full of respect for each other . That's so great!


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Cletus said:


> According to Kinsey, for those in their 30s, 2 out of every 3 marriages are having sex less than 2-3 times a week.
> 
> It only drops for those even older. By your fifties, less than one in 6 is having that much sex.
> 
> So no, you're not the norm. Again, congratulations.


It doesn't matter how many times you tell him that, he's still going to post stuff like this. It's either due to insecurity or the need to brag about how much sex he gets. Then he'll complain about not getting it 6 times a week instead of 4.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jd08 said:


> It doesn't matter how many times you tell him that, he's still going to post stuff like this. It's either due to insecurity or the need to brag about how much sex he gets. Then he'll complain about not getting it 6 times a week instead of 4.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, this is an interesting topic and Plan 9 didn't appear to be bragging at all. His marriage seems pretty healthy in this department and the younger couples, that have been referred to, should take a cue from them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jd08 said:


> It doesn't matter how many times you tell him that, he's still going to post stuff like this. It's either due to insecurity or the need to brag about how much sex he gets. Then he'll complain about not getting it 6 times a week instead of 4.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MODS, if you're open to suggestions, please create a new sub forum or two under SIM that are more focused. This is exhibit A for why it would be nice to have a forum where those of us who want to discuss sexual issues but come from a background of healthy intimacy is needed.

Thank you.

PS, I'll become a supporter if we can get a sub forum if that helps. I bet others would join along too. That way, soul crushing discussions on the main forum can continue without interruptions like this thread.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> MODS, if you're open to suggestions, please create a new sub forum or two under SIM that are more focused. This is exhibit A for why it would be nice to have a forum where those of us who want to discuss sexual issues but come from a background of healthy intimacy is needed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> PS, I'll become a supporter if we can get a sub forum if that helps. I bet others would join along too. That way, soul crushing discussions on the main forum can continue without interruptions like this thread.


I think an HD/LD sub forum would be great. There seems to be more than enough posts about it to support its own forum. 

I think it would also be great to have a forum that just discussed SIM without actually having a problem or questions. I also don't mind people bragging about their sex life. It's more encouraging than a bunch of depressing statistics. I discovered my kinky side by reading posts from people bragging about their exploits.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thefam said:


> I think it would also be great to have a forum that just discussed SIM without actually having a problem or questions.


:iagree:

I had a couple threads removed last year that were interesting discussions, but did not have a problem involved. Seems a shame those valuable comments were lost.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

technovelist said:


> I also suspect it is even worse than the surveys indicate. The real question is *why* so many couples are having so little sex, when it has genuine benefits for both parties...



That's why self reported data in surveys is often flawed as Kinsey found out...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It would just end up being 400 penis threads.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> It would just end up being 400 penis threads.


Lol!&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56834;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I hear a lot of this dynamic out there (using sex for control).

No doubt the marriage is damaged by that time, and a good deal of resentment has built in, most likely from contributions by both parties.

hence......, control sex. Not nice, but probably fairly common.


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## mpgunner (Jul 15, 2014)

technovelist said:


> I also suspect it is even worse than the surveys indicate. The real question is *why* so many couples are having so little sex, when it has genuine benefits for both parties...


And hopefully multiple benefits for her


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> lol
> 
> good point we'd need to be sure to celebrate the big V too! Or small V which is preferable anyway


It wouldn't work out that way, because the men are the ones who contribute 95% to all penis threads, and even when there is a vag thread, it dies quickly and the men only contribute once, if that.

Women don't contribute that much to either vag or peen threads.

So what we really needs is a Mens Only Penis Thread Section. It will immediately become the biggest section on TAM. 

Here's some interesting research showing that it isn't just TAM:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/2...idowitz-searching-for-sex.html?referrer=&_r=1

From the article:
Do women care about penis size? Rarely, according to Google searches. For every search women make about a partner’s phallus, men make roughly 170 searches about their own.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Oops...sorry for threadjack...


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Marriage has always been unequal. When women were primarily housewives, men controlled everything probably the sex too since women were brought up to be demure in and out of the bedroom. Heaven forbid, we expressed our wants and desires. Now, most household are two income families so women are demanding their due. It's not only women who are transactional in the bedroom because both partners are needed to do the deed. Women tend to put out more if they are not burden with household duties constantly and men tend to want more sex when the finances are balance. marriages progress from kids, household duties, finances, to empty nesting, hopefully the couple would progress in their communication to find balance to what work for them and keep resentments at bay.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I do the majority of the chores inside and all of them outside and this does not increase Mrs.CuddleBug's sex drive.

She really appreciates all I do and if gives her unwind time after work.

But it doesn't increase her sex drive.

What increases her sex drive is how she feels about her body, sexually confident, knows she looks good, can wear those sexier clothes and shoes. That increases her sex drive.

I agree that some spouses use sex to control their HD other half. And then only give out just enough sex to keep them in the marriage.

That isn't love and even remotely cool. That's disgusting.

Sex is a physical orgasmic connection true but its also emotional, closeness, warmth and everything else. You don't with hold that to control your spouse. Sooner or later that will backfire and someone has an affair, too much masturbation to porn, EA, PA, and you name it. You can only get away with that abuse for so long and then it comes calling.

If the ladies would love it if their men did the majority of the chores without being asked and in turn they always took care of their men's sexual needs, never begging and asking, this would work quite well.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> It wouldn't work out that way, because the men are the ones who contribute 95% to all penis threads, and even when there is a vag thread, it dies quickly and the men only contribute once, if that.
> 
> Women don't contribute that much to either vag or peen threads.
> 
> ...


I doubt that. I think that section would be just a little above average.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm not trying to threadjack but this is a classic case for me of "don't listen to what men say, watch their actions": statements.
> 
> Because while communication "works," if you have a thickheaded or otherwise oblivious spouse--as long as the sex is there they don't pay attention to other important issues...like pulling their weight.
> 
> I guess I don't care if that makes me sound transactional but it's true over here in my house. If I want to be taken seriously, I have to kill my own libido.


FF--not trying to bag on you here, but what happens if the day ever comes that your husband's libido tanks? If the only way you can get him to listen to you is to cut off the sex--how will you get him to listen to you if he no longer cares that much about the sex?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> FF--what happens if the day ever comes that your husband's libido tanks? If the only way you can get him to listen to you is to cut off the sex--how will you get him to listen to you if he no longer cares that much about the sex?


This is my marriage. After a couple of decades of chasing her for sex (I am a slow learner - I did lots of chasing and never got much sex), I no longer initiate. I turn her down when she offers. I don't feel comfortable having sex with her, because it is clear that not only doesn't she enjoy it, but she actively dislikes it. Now, I am the immovable rock to her demands. She cannot get me to do anything, because over the decades she never developed any tool for motivating me except for withholding sex. Now she has no tool to influence my behavior.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> ...
> 
> *I agree that some spouses use sex to control their HD other half. And then only give out just enough sex to keep them in the marriage.*
> 
> That isn't love and even remotely cool. That's disgusting. ...



This part has really struck me lately due to an offhand/casual remark by my wife the other week.

Can't even remember what we we talking about but she mentioned that "that's why women have power because they can control the sex...."

For some reason (obviously and not so obviously) this did not sit too well with me.

There are many other influences at play in my marriage at the moment, but the statement from my wife has actually turned me off of doing any sort of initiating for sex.

No real question here, just wanted to comment.

I have been thinking about posting my story and situation here to get more direct feedback on what I can/should/could be doing and I just might do it sooner rather than later now.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The problem with such solutions is that you risk conditioning Your partner's response to expect sex as a "reward" and also that you risk conditioning yourself to use this approach regardless of the issue at hand when there is an issue.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

john117 said:


> I don't mind the "transactional part" as much as I mind the raising of the bar and assorted resentment... At some point you simply pull the plug and that's all.


I definitely see that women use sex as a way to control things in their marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you're constantly struggling tho it may be time to reassess.

I'm a pretty laid back guy with infinite patience. As long as the marriage is ok in general I can selectively forget annoying behaviors from Dr. J2. And she has plenty. But take away the emotional connection that filters away small things and an anthill becomes Mt. Everest in a hurry. 

Likewise if I feel good about my partner I can see lots of reasons to put on my best behavior and sweat the details. I did. When things were good. Right now...

So it's not too difficult to see how you can make war out of nothing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well... As I said, conditioned responses are not fun. I tried it with DD23. Get good grades and get this and that. But it escalates. I promised her a cat for graduation. I'm now looking at a $1500 cat  basically a show quality cat whose pedigree includes several cat food commercials...

But that's just money. In a couple I would be more concerned with cultural or personal inabilities to "kiss and make up" after a freeze thaw cycle. I know my wife's culture values holding grudges so... That's something else to consider.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

My goal is to use sex itself as the tool to get more sex.
I figure if I can give my wife the best orgasms of her life, each and every time, she can't help but come back for more.
I know my goal is not fully achievable, but I think it's a noble cause.

Obviously, attraction and desire on her part must be present.
However, it's funny how great orgasms garner attraction and desire for the one giving them.

**** on


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

my take-away from the OP is that there are very few women out there worth committing to.

In the interest of equality and all that, there are very few men worth committing to as well.

People give away commitment too easily.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> My goal is to use sex itself as the tool to get more sex.
> I figure if I can give my wife the best orgasms of her life, each and every time, she can't help but come back for more.
> I know my goal is not fully achievable, but I think it's a noble cause.
> 
> ...


A ****ing men brother. 

It's amazing how much having more good sex leads to even more good sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't know about that...all the truly LD women I've known really don't ramp it up with more orgasms or more or better sex. Same with the truly LD men.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't know about that...all the truly LD women I've known really don't ramp it up with more orgasms or more or better sex. Same with the truly LD men.


Thank goodness most men and women aren't truly LD. Otherwise, the art of seduction would have never grown to the extent that it did. You wouldn't put a lot of effort into something that has a high probability of failure...unless you post on TAM...:rofl:

Kidding, just kidding (kind of).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I personally know many men and women both who are truly LD, and there are hundreds of truly LD people here on TAM (mostly spouses of the posters) over the years so I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't know about that...all the truly LD women I've known really don't ramp it up with more orgasms or more or better sex. Same with the truly LD men.


Maybe they've never had a great orgasm. I know it took me about 20 years of marriage to give my wife squirming off the bed, writhing in pleasure, in another world type of orgasm.
Those are the kind that keep you coming back, or at least have the greater probability of doing so. Who, in their right mind, would not want more of that?

In fact, I rate and tabulate EVERY orgasm my wife has. I rate it from 1 - 5. 1 is total crap (or fake) and 5 is over the top, what the f$ck is happening, we're going to wake the kids up kind of orgasm.

I approach sex with my wife as a combination of science and art. It's my life long goal in life to get my wife panting. At the moment, I can think of nothing more rewarding.

BTW: I'm not necessarily talking about ALL technique. I am a firm believer that foreplay starts right after the last orgasm. I'm talking about showing I care for her, (every day) listen to her for hours when she KNOWS sex is not happening tonight. Doing things she knows I only do because I love her, not because I want sex. Even when you paint a portrait, you still have to give attention to the ENTIRE canvas, not just one specific item.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I personally know many men and women both who are truly LD, and there are hundreds of truly LD people here on TAM (mostly spouses of the posters) over the years so I have no idea what you're talking about.


Well sure.
No one is disputing that. The question is, how can one be raised from LD hell. My wife was pretty damn LD, gradually sliding down the slippery slope of closed off Dryville down the street from Faketropalis.
Figuring out a way to give her mind blowing orgasms sure as hell hasn't hurt anything. In fact, I believe things are/have been improving dramatically. Call it a 180, call it losing weight, call it a change of attitude, call it confidence, we can call it anything we want to. I believe my wife would call it, "Sh$t, I'm gunna get me more of some of that."


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

UMP said:


> Maybe they've never had a great orgasm. I know it took me about 20 years of marriage to give my wife squirming off the bed, writhing in pleasure, in another world type of orgasm.
> Those are the kind that keep you coming back, or at least have the greater probability of doing so. Who, in their right mind, would not want more of that?
> 
> In fact, I rate and tabulate EVERY orgasm my wife has. I rate it from 1 - 5. 1 is total crap (or fake) and 5 is over the top, what the f$ck is happening, we're going to wake the kids up kind of orgasm.
> ...


There are women who have very intense orgasms without becoming more interested in sex overall. I don't claim to understand that, but it is true.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

technovelist said:


> There are women who have very intense orgasms without becoming more interested in sex overall. I don't claim to understand that, but it is true.


That is NOT my wife. If I compare her orgasms from 20 years ago to today, it would be like comparing my golf game to that of Tiger Woods. We both play golf, we both finish the round, we both keep score, we may even wear the same clothes and use the same golf clubs. However, the end result is NO comparison, at all.


Your premise was EXACTLY what I thought, until I saw her experience a GREAT orgasm. What I thought was great 20 years ago is chopped liver today.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

UMP said:


> That is NOT my wife. If I compare her orgasms from 20 years ago to today, it would be like comparing my golf game to that of Tiger Woods. We both play golf, we both finish the round, we both keep score, we may even wear the same clothes and use the same golf clubs. However, the end result is NO comparison, at all.
> 
> 
> Your premise was EXACTLY what I thought, until I saw her experience a GREAT orgasm. What I thought was great 20 years ago is chopped liver today.


I'm happy for you and have no intention of discounting your experience. I was simply pointing out that it isn't universal.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I personally know many men and women both who are truly LD, and there are hundreds of truly LD people here on TAM (mostly spouses of the posters) over the years so I have no idea what you're talking about.


That's no indicator of what the overall population is most likely doing or what they are feeling with respect to libido. TAM is not representative of the overall population because it's not a random collection of people. The people you know personally is not a random sample either. Hell, you may have the dumb luck to have latched on to "truly LD" people for friendships and acquaintances.

Let's go back to TAM for a bit. What I see more likely than not is a partner or person appears to be LD only to find out that the root cause is either due to a hormone, chemical, dumbassery from the spouse or simply marrying someone who you KNEW from the start that you were not attracted to.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Ugh this is getting kinda weird and I'm not sure the ladies of TAM need to know how men turn just about everything into either a sport or competition....
> 
> but since we're already there, I wonder what percent of men would love to get a more accurate O-meter rating from their wives? I am often dying to know how she felt after one of those l o o o o o n g orgasms that you KNOW was the best one in a while! But of course, any guy who has learned anything about how most women think knows the best way to ruin a sensual experience for many women is to analyze it... Oh well
> 
> ...


I NEVER ask, and hardly EVER talk about sex with my wife. She hates that. I DO however rate them (her orgasms) myself, unbeknownst to her. It's a barometer that tells me how I'm doing, again, not necessarily all technique. Remember, "foreplay starts immediately after the last orgasm." (got that quote from some video I saw)


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Since my wife has never had an O with me, I never have to worry about rating them. And once she admitted she never enjoys it, I am no longer tempted to ask how it was. So you see, there are benefits to having a hellishly poor sex life.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's no indicator of what the overall population is most likely doing or what they are feeling with respect to libido. TAM is not representative of the overall population because it's not a random collection of people. The people you know personally is not a random sample either. Hell, you may have the dumb luck to have latched on to "truly LD" people for friendships and acquaintances.
> 
> Let's go back to TAM for a bit. What I see more likely than not is a partner or person appears to be LD only to find out that the root cause is either due to a hormone, chemical, dumbassery from the spouse or simply marrying someone who you KNEW from the start that you were not attracted to.


Everything you said above is true, however, due to my avocation, I have polled dozens of people (probably hundreds by now) about their sex lives. By doing this, I have known the personal stories of not only truly LD people, but also truly HD people, both men and women, and lots of people in between. 

I just ended up knowing personally the stories of far more people than most people because I have been deliberately gathering info about people's sex lives for a long long time. If my sample data reflects me, then that's fine. Because my sample data reflects a very balanced and broad view of human sexuality.

There are many people who are truly LD...meaning they simply do not have a strong sex drive. They may still have very strong emotions and wonderful lives. They may never tell a soul that they have little to no sex drive, because it doesn't even occur to them to do so. Then someone like me comes along and questions them on it, and they always answer the same way, with similar wording.

"I dunno, sex just isn't that important to me. I never felt all uptight about it like other people did".

Ask "did you experience trauma" and similar questions and just get "Nah, nothing like that. I just never felt the supposedly amazing thing other people were feeling. Even though it does feel good and I like it."

Maybe these people are part of a whole wave generation of people whose hormones are whacked up by eating chicken. :scratchhead:

Who knows, maybe the HD people are too, and only the Middle D's are acting naturally.

I'm just saying, _truly LD people exist_, and not in small numbers.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I had a couple threads removed last year that were interesting discussions, but did not have a problem involved. Seems a shame those valuable comments were lost.


I had one removed too years ago.. which I felt could be very helpful.. about Libido types and Lover styles... I had it all saved and have used it on threads where it could be of help...but I felt it was a darn good TOPIC to open up.. and explore.. but it didn't fit within the guidelines here.. 

I would also much enjoy what some of you are suggesting ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

technovelist said:


> *There are women who have very intense orgasms without becoming more interested in sex overall. I don't claim to understand that, but it is true*.


When I hear this sort of thing, I always wonder if "Faking" is going on....orgasms just feel TOO GOOD... but then again.. I SHOULD have been more "sex crazed" in our younger years...*I* didn't make much sense either...

For instance... I am one of those who always has mountain top orgasms .. the "one & done" kind.....Never understood the "multiples" others speak of... PIV is what I crave...yet in our younger yrs of marriage.. I still had other things on the brain.. I could go DAYS - 5, 6 ..but by day 7... something would be stirring ....I'd suddenly realize "I NEED IT ~ and now !!!!" ... if something brushed up against me, a touch.....always felt utterly lost in each other.... exhilarating.....I always remember thinking , sometimes saying ... "







-how can anything feel THIS da** Goooooood!".... if only it could last all night long...but it can't be contained.. 

But WHY oh WHY wasn't I wanting to have sex THE NEXT DAY after these mind blowing orgasms?? ....I should have been wanting to "WORK THAT UP AGAIN!!" ... (which is pretty much my mindset today)... slow learner here.  

I've wondered...someone naturally low drive.. maybe THIS takes a month to come upon them, maybe 2/ 3. ..I have wondered if some NEVER feel this?? ...It seems with young men, that can be X times a day, to nearly every day...

It seemed my consistent "feeling horny all on it's own" timetable was this 6-7 days unless something external aroused me before that...his touching me, a steamy scene on Tv, something I read.... 

It was like.. once I had that ...we fell into each others arms.. and I was satisfied FOR DAYS, brain back in gear somewhere else....







.. 

When I was feeling that.. I was most definitely CRAVING the "big O"...and would have been highly frustrated to not get one.. I'd make him do it again -if he slipped.. 
So yeah...the orgasmic pleasure is surely a huge component to my Love for sex







....combine THAT with the Emotional HIGHS, the bonding we feel....it can be downright addicting !


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> If you were expecting vaginal orgasm through penetration, realize that it is very common NOT to achieve that.


I understand many women do not orgasm from PIV. I have tried fingers and tongue. She refused toys. After years of fingers and tongue not working, she told me to stop bothering. Yes, we went to sex therapists. No, she did not do any of the exercises or homework. As far as I know, no, she does not masturbate and does not have anyone "on the side".

She says she never felt anything "down there". I think her brain is disconnected from her body because her first sexual experience was rape. She says the rapes had nothing to do with it. If she isn't interested in exploring that further, not much I can do on that issue.

Tried "working on me". A couple of $50,000 raises, running half a marathon and doing P90X made no difference. If I want sex, I have to divorce her. I am not willing to divorce. So reading and posting on internet forums is my sex life these days.

Enough with the downers. Most of my posts are meant to be read humorously. To cheer people up. Because no matter how little you are getting, your sex life could be worse. It could be mine!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> I understand many women do not orgasm from PIV. I have tried fingers and tongue. She refused toys. After years of fingers and tongue not working, she told me to stop bothering. Yes, we went to sex therapists. No, she did not do any of the exercises or homework. As far as I know, no, she does not masturbate and does not have anyone "on the side".
> 
> She says she never felt anything "down there". I think her brain is disconnected from her body because her first sexual experience was rape. She says the rapes had nothing to do with it. If she isn't interested in exploring that further, not much I can do on that issue.
> 
> ...


I can certainly understand why you would want to laugh rather than cry. However, I am of the mind set that it can always get better. Don't give up. Keep trying. You never know, a breakthrough may be right around the corner.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But I will say that if we at TAM are actually the minority and the silent majority are more like this young couple...how sad of a marriage is that! It sounds like so much of it is based on tension, power struggles, transactions and a lack of teamwork - the young guy does not jump through hoops in any way to make his wife's life easier probably due to that lack of connection.


"If"?

The amount of sex you all have, and the lack of bartering/tension about sex, is in a severe minority here on TAM, as well as the "real" world.

I've seen people on this forum say that someone is bordering on LD if they only desire sex 2-3 times a week. However that's a ton of sex for millions of couples, of ALL ages. Married couples who have sex daily, especially older married couples doing this, is downright rare no matter what you read on this board.

You can only take TAM selection bias but so seriously. This is a place of extremes and as such a pretty poor indicator of offline life.



MarriedGuy221 said:


> BTW I am completely opposed to connecting ANYTHING with marital sex. In other words, work around the house, or lack if it, should have no baring on frequency of sex. If if does, it is emotional blackmail - pure and simple.
> 
> If one side of a couple isn't pulling their weight, that should be directly (and respectfully and nicely) addressed. If emotional connection is lacking that too should be directly discussed.
> 
> Conflating those issues with marital sex is using sex as a carrot and stick. That's disrespecting your spouse and - you got it - should be dealt with directly


This. All day long this. Thankfully my wife and I are on the same page.

Sex, for us, most be an independent entity. It's an expression of our love and continued attraction to one another, an important bonding experience. Even if things aren't perfect elsewhere, and need to be addressed, sex is not, and cannot, become contingent on those other issues (outside of acute, temporary moments).

I think removing sex in a bid to improve other areas often compounds the issue and can potentially make everything so much worse in the end.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

technovelist said:


> I'm happy for you and have no intention of discounting your experience. I was simply pointing out that it isn't universal.


I agree. A person can truly have a naturally lower drive and still enjoy sex.


I've used this analogy in the past. I think good pizza tastes phenomenal. Hell I usually enjoy not so great pizza too. But I could never classify myself as a pizza lover. I can and do go months, and even years, without having pizza. I can eat the best damn pizza ever made, enjoy it immensely, and yet not be tempted to have pizza for long periods of time. Does it mean that I won't enjoy pizza when offered? Nope, of course I will. It just means that I don't typically crave or desire pizza spontaneously. 

This to me is how truly LD people are. They can enjoy sex, often do. They might even have a very active sex life when paired with a HD person they enjoy having sex with. But, left to their own devices, they just don't crave sex often. And that lack of craving has nothing to do with the potential for mind blowing orgasms.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

UMP said:


> I can certainly understand why you would want to laugh rather than cry. However, I am of the mind set that it can always get better. Don't give up. Keep trying. You never know, a breakthrough may be right around the corner.





UMP said:


> I can certainly understand why you would want to laugh rather than cry. However, I am of the mind set that it can always get better. Don't give up. Keep trying. You never know, a breakthrough may be right around the corner.


Nah. We saw marriage counsellors for 8 years. The last one fired us for not being willing to make any changes. Saw sex therapists. Mrs. Hold would never do any of the exercises. I tried date nights and more communication. Tried focusing on work. Tried exercise and getting in better shape. Zero impact. 

If I want sex I have to divorce. Married 20+ years. Would owe her permanent alimony. Too old and too much work to start over with half my income and no assets (we don't have any except retirement accounts).

There will be no breakthroughs. I can't get it up without Viagra. She hates kissing, foreplay etc so taking the pill and waiting for it to kick in kills the mood. Taking pills every day on the off chance that this might be the day she is in the mood is more soul destroying than not having any sex at all. This IS better than when I was trying to find ways to motivate her to consent. All she does is starfish anyway. I wish I could go back to the state of ignorance where I enjoyed starfish sex. Once you open your eyes to the fact that starfish sex stinks, what is the point of trying?


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## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE (Mar 13, 2015)

Been married long time.
Sex tues night, thurs night, and already gearing up for tonight.
Not sure if this is normal but heck being married this long is not normal now days.

Tell your wife - There are many every day normal people, but there was only one Newton, Einstein, Planck,....Tesla....

Society tries to make us all alike, but the ones who stand out are the unique people.

20 years from now her young friend may not still be married so enjoy being different.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> We are open to suggestions...but we don't create the forums! I believe it is in the Suggestions box at the moment. If not, feel free to create a request in there.
> 
> I can tell you that I think the main reason that the forum is structured this way is because *talking about sex without problems can lead to marriage threatning situations.*


Honestly, the fact that these forums exist can easily cause marriage threatening situations. Disable the ability to send PM's, because that ability is a much larger threat to a marriage via an EA than any new discussion forum. JMHO.


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