# I ****ed up. 23 years down the drain.



## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

I took my wife for granted. She has been my partner for 23 years. My whole life has been spent with her. I took for granted something that has been there as long as I have existed. She found out I was having an affair and now I am losing her. I can’t lose her. There needs to be hope. She is still at home, so that needs to count for something. I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her. She won’t talk to me or let me near our kids. Begging her to talk to me isn’t helping. I need something that will help. It’s my marriage and family on the line.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It has a plan to follow.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

I found it on amazon. I can order. What can I do in the meantime? Until it arrives on Tuesday and I read it.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

AR- said:


> I took my wife for granted. She has been my partner for 23 years. My whole life has been spent with her. I took for granted something that has been there as long as I have existed. She found out I was having an affair and now I am losing her. I can’t lose her. There needs to be hope. She is still at home, so that needs to count for something. I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her. She won’t talk to me or let me near our kids. Begging her to talk to me isn’t helping. I need something that will help. It’s my marriage and family on the line.


It is her choice to leave you or not. You are not in control of that decision anymore. Pleading and begging won't make it happen either. Were I you I would take a step back, acknowledge how badly you messed up, and tell her that you realize it's up to her now, and that if she chooses to reconcile, you will do everything to win back her trust -- this time for real.

You can't make her come back. Recognize that much.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AR- said:


> I found it on amazon. I can order. What can I do in the meantime? Until it arrives on Tuesday and I read it.


Here's a link to articles on the author's site....

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

AR- said:


> I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her.


You sound as if you did her a favor. Cut that out. She may be wishing that it had not happened in the first place. You chose her, but she may think that that should have already been long sealed and decided when you asked her to marry you. Echoing the above, it is her choice now to decide if she wants to stay or not. Begging will not help.

You two should also be in individual counseling or marriage counseling specialized in infidelity. How long did the affair last? Did you give her the whole truth or was there trickle truth?

If she asks for space, give her space. All you can do now is work on yourself so that this doesn't happen again, whether you're still with her or in your next relationship.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Congrats!


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

Thank you I will read the articles now. I didn't say I was going to force her to stay with me or that I did some favor. I don't know what trickled truth is?


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## Etomidate (Mar 10, 2018)

AR- said:


> I took my wife for granted. She has been my partner for 23 years. My whole life has been spent with her. I took for granted something that has been there as long as I have existed. She found out I was having an affair and now I am losing her. I can’t lose her. There needs to be hope. She is still at home, so that needs to count for something. I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her. She won’t talk to me or let me near our kids. Begging her to talk to me isn’t helping. I need something that will help. It’s my marriage and family on the line.


You always went back to her? Like you’re such a prize? You’re not a man, not by a long shot. And she’s right to keep you away from your kids. If you have sons, she doesn’t want them to end up being a scum bag and if you have daughters she doesn’t want them to think it’s ok for their future husbands to treat them like you treated their mom. Give her everything and go live with your *****.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

AR- said:


> Thank you I will read the articles now. I didn't say I was going to force her to stay with me or that I did some favor. I don't know what trickled truth is?


Did you only give her the truth in small bits based on what she knew until she found out more information on her own, or did you tell her everything? Did you cut contact with the affair partner?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

AR- said:


> I took my wife for granted. She has been my partner for 23 years. My whole life has been spent with her. I took for granted something that has been there as long as I have existed. She found out I was having an affair and now I am losing her. I can’t lose her. There needs to be hope. She is still at home, so that needs to count for something. I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her. She won’t talk to me or let me near our kids. Begging her to talk to me isn’t helping. I need something that will help. It’s my marriage and family on the line.



If you didn't stop the affair until she found you out, then it looks more like you are sorry you got caught (and afraid of the consequences), rather than sorry for the affair. Not good.

It sounds like you have no idea how you have hurt her. Also not good.

You need to totally understand what you have done to her. (as my generation would say, you need to "grok" it). 

And trickle truth means you divulge information a bit at a time, only when forced, often to minimize or make yourself look better, or to hide the true extent of your crimes. It's a sign that you don't have full remorse.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

I am not going to brag to her about what I did. That's insane. We have barely talked about it. That's not what I want to do.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

"If you didn't stop the affair until she found you out, then it looks more like you are sorry you got caught (and afraid of the consequences), rather than sorry for the affair. Not good."

How do I make it not look like that? 

I know that I hurt her. She hasn't had an affair so maybe I don't know exactly but that can't mean we can't stay together. I haven't trickled truth.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

AR- said:


> "If you didn't stop the affair until she found you out, then it looks more like you are sorry you got caught (and afraid of the consequences), rather than sorry for the affair. Not good."
> 
> How do I make it not look like that?
> 
> I know that I hurt her. She hasn't had an affair so maybe I don't know exactly but that can't mean we can't stay together. I haven't trickled truth.



It MIGHT mean you can't stay together. 

Because you destroyed her trust. And marriage is built on trust. And it will never be the same again. 

You were once the loyal husband who NEVER cheated on her. You can never be that again. Never. It will never be the same.

While you are waiting for your book to arrive, read some of the posts here by the betrayed spouses. Try to hear the pain they feel. Try to understand what devastation they are going through. Maybe then you'll have more of a clue. Because it doesn't sound to me like you have "grokked" the situation yet.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

How about some details. 
How many lies have you spun? and how did she find out and what does she know and NOT know about? 

How long was the affair? 
How many potential affairs or Emotional affairs and online affairs? 

Thank you.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

AR- said:


> I am not going to brag to her about what I did. That's insane. We have barely talked about it. That's not what I want to do.



It's not about bragging. Again, read some of the posts by betrayed spouses.

Most (not all, but the vast majority) betrayed spouses want to know all the details about the affair. It's part of their attempt to get their brain around what happened. They want to...no....they NEED to know what went on to understand it all. They want to know what friends knew and hid it from them. They want to know how long it went on for. They want to know how many times the cheater had sex with the affair partner. Were they more sexually adventurous with the affair partner? Were they more romantic with the affair partner? What defect in the cheater's personality led them to betray the marriage? (And no, NOT what failings of the betrayed spouse led to the affair---because the affair is ALL the cheater's fault.). 

And since the cheater is a broken individual, why should they be trusted again? Would you be hesitant to give a proven thief a job handling large sums of money without supervision? Well, in this case, you're like the thief....you now have the equivalent of a criminal rap sheet in the world of marital trust, so why should you be trusted again? Because you SAY you won't do it again? You SAID you wouldn't cheat in the first place, so you have proven your word is garbage. 

You need to lay it all out (when she asks) before your wife can ever THINK about giving you the UNDERSERVED gift of an attempt at reconciliation. 

So what "you want to do" doesn't mean jack. What matters is what your spouse NEEDS you to do, in order for her to deal with this. YOU don't get to call the shots. 

That's why your posts about asking what you need to do to "fix" the situation rings hollow for true remorse. It sounds like you are just concerned about the consequences of losing your family, rather than focusing on how much you destroyed your wife. That's why it doesn't sound to me (and probably other posters) that you have remorse. 

- - - - - - - - -
Let me give you an analogy...not perfect, but just to give you an idea:

Compare the situation of a man who, for whatever reason---bar fight, road rage, committing a robbery, whatever---murders another person.

A person who is mostly afraid of the consequences will wish "he had never done it". Certainly because he regrets committing that crime, but mostly because he is afraid of prison or even death penalty. He may be cutting deals with the prosecutor to ameliorate his sentence. 

However, a person who is truly remorseful will also wish "he had never done it", but primarily because he has destroyed a life, destroyed the victim's family, committed a horrific crime on another human being, and he feels intense guilt and responsibility. He won't be worried about "how to fix it". In fact, he may even WISH to be convicted, because he may feel such overwhelming guilt and responsibility that he feels he DESERVES the death penalty. Rather than trying to minimize the consequences, he may embrace it as his due punishment. And if the judge and jury decide to be merciful and NOT give him the death penalty or they give him a lesser prison term than he should have had, he realizes that is pure mercy on the part of the court....NOT something he was able to "fix".

In both cases, the killer "wishes he had never done it", but only in the second case does the murderer have TRUE remorse.

I'm just not reading that level of remorse in your posts.


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## Kirk401 (Jun 3, 2018)

I had big issues a few years back with my wife. 

I'm gonna assume you and the Mrs have been disconnected of sorts for a while for an affair to happen!! If you want to reconnect with your wife again and get your marriage back on track its not gonna be easy. Many would just get a divorce and move on as its going to take a long time. 

I read the books, there are bunch out there like "Save the Marriage". That book and the plan or whatever helped with my ordeal. One of my downfalls was talking about it always with the Mrs. and trying to talk my way out of the mess I made. #1 rule for me anyway was don't talk about it constantly! Also be careful about going with the wife to some sort of couple therapy and rehashing the whole ordeal over and over. If you need to talk to someone about it try a marriage coach that deals with this sort of thing. May not be an option for everyone but it worked for me and got me through that 1st 6 months of extremely stressful times.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, what is your background story? How old are you and your wife? How old is the OW? How did your affair begun? How did you wife found out? Did you have any affairs (emotional or physical) before this affair? You need to give some details, so that we can see your situation in a wider scope. Apparently, you want to save your marriage.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


Respect her need for space and let her know you are available for anything when she is ready. You are not in control anymore. She needs to feel in control, safe and to retake the power you robbed her of.

You need to be contrite and accepting of whatever behavior, short of abuse, she feels necessary.

Until she is ready, keep reading as many books about helping your spouse heal from your affair as you can.

You also need to be involved with your children. She cannot keep you from them unless you have proven you are a danger to them. They need reassuring that they aren't at fault for the problems in your marriage and they need to understand, at age appropriate levels, that you behaved badly and their mother is justifiably hurt and angry with you.

They still need your love.

Best wishes and I sincerely hope you have learned your lesson and change to become a better man regardless of if your marriage can be healed or not.

Have you gone no contact with your affair partner? Have written her a no contact letter?

Does your wife know this woman? Is she in your social circle?


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


 you came here for advice. There are people on this site who will tell you exactly what to do step by step. They are experts at this. They have lived it, on both sides of affairs. Listen to them and answer their questions. The details matter sometimes. Let them help you.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


This isn't about you now. It's about your betrayed wife. And you say you chose your wife. No, you didn't. You chose your mistress. That you always went home to your wife is not a mitigating factor. IMO, it made it worse. You're a cake eater. 

Understand this - You are no longer in the driver's seat so stop trying to do damage control. It's insulting to your betrayed wife. The damage is done. Maybe you can't "fix it". 

If your betrayed wife does not want to talk to you, that is her right. If she wants space from you, that is her right, too. Sure, you can do things to try to remedy the situation, and you should, but you must let your wife steer this broken ship. 

When I was cheated on, I wanted to know every sordid detail. What acts they did, what positions they had sex, where, when. Some betrayeds want all the Nitty Gritty dirty details. I was one of those people. Some betrayeds do not want to know a thing. 

So if your wife wants to know the details, there is a reason for that. Although it is far too late in the game to tell you to respect your wife and tell her what she wants to know, because you did not respect her when you were having your Affair, you must oblige. I will repeat. This is not about you now.

You must defer to her on this issue. You have destroyed your family. It is up to her to decide whether she wants to forgive you or Leave You. You can't control a thing other than your actions going forward. She gets to control her actions and decisions.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out.* I don't need* to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. *I just need* to fix it.


There is a poster who shared what your WIFE might need in light of this betrayal. Do you care about that?


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

Random input here.

A friend watched the movie The Doors; I never saw it. But I remember him marveling over the main guy, how he cheated on his wife and treated her poorly, but always went back to her/stayed with her for what it's worth. My friend thought that was admirable. You apparently think so too. So maybe while your wife shuts you out, take in an old movie that you can identify with.

Monogamy may not be natural. That's probably why we're so bad at it. I'd rather not have monogamy than be married to a liar, for sure. Discovering deception? That is such betrayal. How can you fix this? Quit being an ******* for starters


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


There's no one-size-fits-all formula. There are guidelines but every relationship has its own degree of nuance.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AR- said:


> *I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her.
> *


Mighty Saintly of you! 0

And don't forget to tell Her... The whole time I was ****ing Jane, I never stopped loving you. And follow that up with the Time Honored sure fire fixer... My affair with Jane never meant anything.

Enough, lose the self-pity, fun time is over, you really think it's bad now? Hold on brother, the party has only just begun. 

Staying, never leaving, choosing her... are actions not just words of a loving faithful spouse. You are neither and have no defense, your only hope is mercy and it's in short supply.

BTW, what planet are you from?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


Nor do we need every detail, but we do need some more to be truly helpful. When you need a diagnosis you go to the doctor and they ask so you a ton of questions and get your medical history. We are members of a free online forum. We are willing to help you, but we are going to need some questions answered and some history. You came to us, and can use us as a great resource of cumulative minds and backgrounds. Or you can opt to not provide any details, and leave without much help. You can find generic marriage help anywhere on Google. Here we try to provide specific help to each person and their situation. If that is what you are looking for, welcome to TAM.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


You can no more "fix it" than you can repair a shatter windshield. It's up to her now to decide whether you are worth sticking with or not.

You made a vow when you married her. A solemn vow. You broke it. Why on earth would she ever trust you again?

If you are really contrite, here's what you do. Have divorce papers drawn up in which you give her EVERYTHING that you don't absolutely need to survive. She gets the house, the savings, the furniture, the electronics, and everything else. You get nothing but a few sets of clothes, the minimum transportation you need to work, and just enough to put down a deposit on the cheapest habitable apartment you can find. You sign off on all that and leave yourself at her mercy. That'll show her that you are truly sorry and are willing to accept whatever consequences she feels are appropriate.

You need to get passed the notion that you can patch this hole you created. You can't un**** your affair partner any more than you can go back to being a virgin. You irrevocably destroyed the marriage that you had and now you have to throw yourself on her mercy to see if she'll start what is effectively a new marriage with you.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

AR- said:


> "If you didn't stop the affair until she found you out, then it looks more like you are sorry you got caught (and afraid of the consequences), rather than sorry for the affair. Not good."
> 
> How do I make it not look like that?
> 
> I know that I hurt her. She hasn't had an affair so maybe I don't know exactly but that can't mean we can't stay together. I haven't trickled truth.


I am shaking with laughter. "How do I make it not look like that?" I have a lot to say, but I don't want to get banned, so I'll leave it at this. You do not make anything look other than it is. That is most of your problem right there. You are a liar. Step #1 is stop being a liar. Tell the truth and let your wife come to her own conclusions. As long as you are trying to control the narrative and her, you are not worth her time. Most people her don't think cheater deserve another chance. At the moment, based on what you've posted, I would tell your wife to stick to her no contact.

In order for anyone here to want to see you succeed in getting your wife to come back to you, it is imperative that you are willing to actually repent for being a hurtful, dangerous husband. Yes, you are a danger to your wife and quite frankly the fact that you were caught rather than stopping on your own shows all of us that you are very likely sorry that you got caught and that you really do not care about your wife. In all of your posts about this, it's all about you and your desperation to get back the life that you torched. Wake up man!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

What it all comes down to is that it's not about a set of guidelines on what to do. It isn't about what to do at all. It's about who you are. Are you a lying, cheating, scoundrel or are you an honest, committed, faithful husband who treats his wife as if she is more valuable than himself? Who do you think your wife views you as?

And before you start working on your image to present a picture for your wife to view you as, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about who you are at your core. That obviously needs to change in order for you to be a good husband. Good husband's do not cheat on their wives. You know that.

You've got some character issues that you need to work on. Frankly I don't think that is possible for anyone in your condition unless they surrender their lives to Jesus Christ and get deep spiritual healing. Other than that, I think you are a lost cause. I don't think people are capable of these kinds of changes without supernatural help.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

> "I just need to know what to do about it."


 Short answer. 

*NOTHING.* As stated above numerous times. 

You are at her mercy, and the more you try to "make something happen" the farther away you will push her because it reiterates that you just don't get it. Do what she asks. If she asks nothing, do nothing. Leave her alone. She's driving now, you're just along for the ride.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Short answer.
> 
> *NOTHING.* As stated above numerous times.
> 
> You are at her mercy, and the more you try to "make something happen" the farther away you will push her because it reiterates that you just don't get it. Do what she asks. If she asks nothing, do nothing. Leave her alone. She's driving now, you're just along for the ride.


This.

You gave up the right to decide anything for her the moment you made the one decision you had no right to make.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can't "fix it". 

Maybe she will decide to R and maybe she won't but it's 100% her choice now so don't think you can talk her around if that's not what she wants.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife. 

My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002. 

•I slept with two people in 1999; friends.
•I slept with someone in 2009; met online
•I slept with someone in 2010; met through work
•I slept with someone in 2012; met online 
•I met someone at work in 2012; physical in 2013 – present.
•I slept with someone in 2017; met online
•The cause has always been stress-related. 

My wife knows that I slept with one person in ’99 and that I have been seeing someone else, my wife saw me with her when she was somewhere she shouldn’t have been. My wife knows I work with her but doesn’t personally know her. I am not going to tell her every detail, that is ridiculous. Telling her what positions? Absolutely not. It was just sex, none of it meant anything. If they had meant something I wouldn’t have stayed with my wife. We have problems but I choose my wife. I will do what I have to for her to see that I only want her. She has said before that if I ever cheated she didn’t want to know.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> What it all comes down to is that it's not about a set of guidelines on what to do. It isn't about what to do at all. It's about who you are. Are you a lying, cheating, scoundrel or are you an honest, committed, faithful husband who treats his wife as if she is more valuable than himself? Who do you think your wife views you as?
> 
> And before you start working on your image to present a picture for your wife to view you as, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about who you are at your core. That obviously needs to change in order for you to be a good husband. Good husband's do not cheat on their wives. You know that.
> 
> You've got some character issues that you need to work on. Frankly I don't think that is possible for anyone in your condition unless they surrender their lives to Jesus Christ and get deep spiritual healing. Other than that, I think you are a lost cause. I don't think people are capable of these kinds of changes without supernatural help.


But in order to get that deep spiritual healing, in order to surrender, there has to be remorse; coming to Jesus is supposed to be about atonement. People have to accept or believe that they need to atone before believing in Jesus has the kind of result that I think you're hoping for and possibly describing in this post. I don't think you're offering up the other kind . . . . I've scoured pretty much all the midlife crisis internet forums that exist, and there are a growing number of "Christian" ones. Yet people come to those sites looking for Jesus in a way that they can adopt a formula or rub the Christian version of the rabbit's foot and voila, their marriage is restored. If I just believe in Jesus, I'll get my spouse back. Most of the time it is people looking to get their wandering cheating MLC spouse back, but there was one managed by a man that operated for a long time, and it was about the MLC cheaters trying to get Jesus and also get the spouse that they walked away from back. 

I don't have a problem with authentic religion and spirituality, but I do have a problem when Christianity is peddled as a way of drawing in people to sell them something that isn't going to work - there's no formula, not even on Christian websites on infidelity, and eventually, every Christian or MLC website adopts a kind of ethos, a set of assumptions, about how to respond to a situation where one has no control over the choice of the LBS. And they all propose ways of responding. Jim Conway's book has a set of proposed responses (one can call them guidelines) while the tough love approach of James Dobson is completely and totally different. Jim Conway actually had a MLC and did not leave his marriage, but in any case, the interpretation and application of what Christianity has to say about infidelity is different given the source. 

I don't disagree that someone who can cheat, stay in the marriage, be appalled when caught, want credit for not leaving the spouse while cheating on her, and then having sorrow at being caught, rather than remorse at the damage done, needs help.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Notice my post didn't say that he could get his wife back by turning to Jesus. My point was that if he really wants to be an honorable person he's going to need supernatural help. I agree with your post. Going to Jesus to get a marriage isn't really going to Jesus. Going to Jesus is all about surrender to God's will and allowing him to do the deep work.

I've been a Christian a long time and I don't see this very often where people become deeply spiritual. It seems that they become deeply religious instead. Not the same thing. Religion doesn't really change people from the inside out from what I have seen. What really changes people is a deep spiritual connection and allowing the Holy Spirit to expose, convict, and deliver where true healing can take place.



TeddieG said:


> But in order to get that deep spiritual healing, in order to surrender, there has to be remorse; coming to Jesus is supposed to be about atonement. People have to accept or believe that they need to atone before believing in Jesus has the kind of result that I think you're hoping for and possibly describing in this post. I don't think you're offering up the other kind . . . . I've scoured pretty much all the midlife crisis internet forums that exist, and there are a growing number of "Christian" ones. Yet people come to those sites looking for Jesus in a way that they can adopt a formula or rub the Christian version of the rabbit's foot and voila, their marriage is restored. If I just believe in Jesus, I'll get my spouse back. Most of the time it is people looking to get their wandering cheating MLC spouse back, but there was one managed by a man that operated for a long time, and it was about the MLC cheaters trying to get Jesus and also get the spouse that they walked away from back.
> 
> I don't have a problem with authentic religion and spirituality, but I do have a problem when Christianity is peddled as a way of drawing in people to sell them something that isn't going to work - there's no formula, not even on Christian websites on infidelity, and eventually, every Christian or MLC website adopts a kind of ethos, a set of assumptions, about how to respond to a situation where one has no control over the choice of the LBS. And they all propose ways of responding. Jim Conway's book has a set of proposed responses (one can call them guidelines) while the tough love approach of James Dobson is completely and totally different. Jim Conway actually had a MLC and did not leave his marriage, but in any case, the interpretation and application of what Christianity has to say about infidelity is different given the source.
> 
> I don't disagree that someone who can cheat, stay in the marriage, be appalled when caught, want credit for not leaving the spouse while cheating on her, and then having sorrow at being caught, rather than remorse at the damage done, needs help.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

This is not a “how to help a cheater get away with it” website. Unless you are willing to confess the whole lot to your wife I doubt you will get much sympathy or support from many members here.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.
> 
> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> ...


So what did you interpret that to mean? That you COULD cheat and as long as she didn't know, it was okay? That list demonstrates a LOT of cheating - serial cheating in fact. Was there some reason you couldn't talk about the stress with your wife? Were the issues in your marriage something you felt could be better resolved by cheating, rather than talking to your wife about it? 

I'm pretty sure that the OW my ex is now with was not his first; I think there was another woman 3 hours from here near a big resort that my ex at least spent time talking to, visiting with, and possibly had an affair with.

So someone else asked the question about how your wife found out, and asked if your wife saw you with this person. Let me just tell you that the realization, whether one is told or observes, that a spouse has been or is being unfaithful is the biggest kick in the gut imaginable. When I ex called me the weekend of July 4 to tell me he'd been unfaithful, I got into my car and started driving and had to pull over at a gas station to puke and crap my guts out. You may be upset and scared, but your wife is devastated. I thought we could bring our marriage back from the brink but it was impossible. He wanted me too, but he didn't want to our couldn't or wouldn't give up the other woman. And she had the nerve to tell me that my then-h said if it hadn't been her it would have been someone else, as if to tell me I should shut up and move on. Instead, I asked her, so what does that say to you, about how "special" you AREN'T? You say those relationships meant nothing, they were just sex. That's not make a hill of beans difference to your wife. You were intimate somewhere else. No explanation is going to make the hit less painful.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Notice my post didn't say that he could get his wife back by turning to Jesus. My point was that if he really wants to be an honorable person he's going to need supernatural help. I agree with your post. Going to Jesus to get a marriage isn't really going to Jesus. Going to Jesus is all about surrender to God's will and allowing him to do the deep work.
> 
> I've been a Christian a long time and I don't see this very often where people become deeply spiritual. It seems that they become deeply religious instead. Not the same thing. Religion doesn't really change people from the inside out from what I have seen. What really changes people is a deep spiritual connection and allowing the Holy Spirit to expose, convict, and deliver where true healing can take place.


Yes, but going to a website where they promise to sell Jesus and the answer to get your marriage back is not even religion; it is marketing wrapped up to look like religion, in the guise of religion or even spirituality. I know people who are religious because that is how they express their spirituality, from their perspective, authentically; and I know plenty of people who are spiritual without religion. 

Remorse and atonement are not, however, unique to religion or even Christianity. I'm just saying that there places prepared to exploit the need for atonement or a desire to see a positive response to remorse, and exploit that need or desire for a host of reasons, including a notch on the belt or bigger advertising revenue.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.
> 
> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> ...



The bolted statement says a LOT about you. You are not protecting her, you are protecting yourself. You know the sheer LENGTH and number of your conquests speak of someone who does NOT LOVE THEIR WIFE. PERIOD. you only thought about yourself and you only thought about hiding it to protect yourself. It is bull ****** any other excuse you have. 

You dont need to tell her positions BUT if she asks you sure as hell should. It will hurt for her to hear but it will be worse for you because it illistrates you as someone so much unworthy of the marriage you built for 23 years. 

Look, i know I sound harsh and I DO hope you can reconcile but you got to stop the SAVE YOUR OWN ASS mode if you ever hope to reconcile. Shut that function down. Put yourself on the chopping block for her and show her that you see how much you DONT ever and WILL NEVER deserve her again after what you have done that only transparency will show any sense of becoming a better person.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Given this track record, do you think you can be in a marriage, fully committed and all in, without the promise of some action on the side?


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

TeddieG said:


> Given this track record, do you think you can be in a marriage, fully committed and all in, without the promise of some action on the side?


Yes. I want to be with my wife.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

WHY do you want to be with your wife?


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

threelittlestars said:


> The bolted statement says a LOT about you. You are not protecting her, you are protecting yourself. You know the sheer LENGTH and number of your conquests speak of someone who does NOT LOVE THEIR WIFE. PERIOD. you only thought about yourself and you only thought about hiding it to protect yourself. It is bull ****** any other excuse you have.
> 
> You dont need to tell her positions BUT if she asks you sure as hell should. It will hurt for her to hear but it will be worse for you because it illistrates you as someone so much unworthy of the marriage you built for 23 years.
> 
> Look, i know I sound harsh and I DO hope you can reconcile but you got to stop the SAVE YOUR OWN ASS mode if you ever hope to reconcile. Shut that function down. Put yourself on the chopping block for her and show her that you see how much you DONT ever and WILL NEVER deserve her again after what you have done that only transparency will show any sense of becoming a better person.


If my wife has straight out said that she doesn't want to know if I ever cheated on her again (after '99), why would I go against that wish and tell her? She doesn't want to know anything. She knows that I was having an affair, she hasn't asked any questions like people are claiming she would. She has only asked how long, then told me not to tell her. 

If I didn't love my wife I wouldn't be here.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Do you see yourself being faithful for the rest of your life, to your wife? If not, let her go. Marriage is about an equal partnership, not one person having one foot in, and the other foot out. She sounds like she's all in, and you sound like you only want to be in, when it's convenient. So, if you don't see yourself being faithful, why even torture yourself and remain married? It sounds like you really don't want to be married, you just want the benefits of it.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

TeddieG said:


> WHY do you want to be with your wife?


Regardless of what we were going through she has always been a good wife. She is caring, selfless, she knows how to take care of a home and finances. She could care less about material items and just wants time spent as a family. She is the mother of my kids and is a good mom. I don't want our kids to be from a broken home. We have been together almost our whole lives, she has been my best friend from age 3. She knew that I cheated on her when we were teenagers and had no requirement to stay together (marriage or kids). She chose to stay rather than run. She keeps her commitments and promises. She's faithful, even if I don't deserve it. She is respectful. She is raising our kids to be good people. I enjoy her company.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Am I reading this list correctly, in that you were with someone from 2012 that you met online, it became physical in 2013 and still is (your list 2013-present) and then you had an affair in 2017? Were these simultaneous, overlapping, or is the 2012 online thing that went physical in 2013 on-again off-again?


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> Do you see yourself being faithful for the rest of your life, to your wife? If not, let her go. Marriage is about an equal partnership, not one person having one foot in, and the other foot out. She sounds like she's all in, and you sound like you only want to be in, when it's convenient. So, if you don't see yourself being faithful, why even torture yourself and remain married? It sounds like you really don't want to be married, you just want the benefits of it.


I can be faithful to my wife. I am aware that I have work to do on myself, but I want to do that with my wife not without her. My wife deserves me to be faithful to her.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

AR- said:


> Regardless of what we were going through she has always been a good wife. She is caring, selfless, she knows how to take care of a home and finances. She could care less about material items and just wants time spent as a family. She is the mother of my kids and is a good mom. I don't want our kids to be from a broken home. We have been together almost our whole lives, she has been my best friend from age 3. She knew that I cheated on her when we were teenagers and had no requirement to stay together (marriage or kids). She chose to stay rather than run. She keeps her commitments and promises. She's faithful, even if I don't deserve it. She is respectful. She is raising our kids to be good people. I enjoy her company.


You never say that you love her, or that you are in love with her. Because she keeps her commitments and didn't run when you cheated, are you interpreting that to mean she's okay with it as long as she doesn't know? She sounds awesome, like an almost perfect life partner. All the reasons you give are reasons that are beneficial to you, that bring quality and standards and goodness to your life. What do you think your children will feel if they know there is tension in the house, or pick up on the fact that you cheated on their mother? Which is worse, an intact family where the kids know that dad cheats and mom tolerates it, or a family where a mother models how inappropriate that is and what the consequences are in infidelity?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TeddieG said:


> I'm just saying that there places prepared to exploit the need for atonement or a desire to see a positive response to remorse, and exploit that need or desire for a host of reasons, including a notch on the belt or bigger advertising revenue.


That's a good caution.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

TeddieG said:


> Am I reading this list correctly, in that you were with someone from 2012 that you met online, it became physical in 2013 and still is (your list 2013-present) and then you had an affair in 2017? Were these simultaneous, overlapping, or is the 2012 online thing that went physical in 2013 on-again off-again?


In mid-2012 I met a woman online and met up with her twice. At the end of 2012 I met a different woman at work who I had an interest in. I became intimate with her in 2013 and was up until now. 2017 was a different woman, overlapping. 7 women. And I am very uncomfortable saying that.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

I doubt you will be able to be faithful. I think you are kidding yourself on if you believe that. Be honest, when you get your feet under the table again then you will think about sexploits. I would not be surprised if you are thinking about stuff even now. A full confession to her, your family and friends might help save you. In addition you would probably need a lot of therapy.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

AR- said:


> She's faithful, even if I don't deserve it.


Being faithful isn't because of the person one is being faithful to. Faithful is because of a person's character.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

AR- said:


> I can be faithful to my wife. I am aware that I have work to do on myself, but I want to do that with my wife not without her. My wife deserves me to be faithful to her.


Your wife or marriage won't help you to be faithful, only you can do that. Obviously, your wife and marriage isn't enough for you to stay faithful. You seem like you lack confidence in yourself as a man, thus you try to bang women in hopes of feeling like a man. You lack something that no amount of sex with random women will ever give to you. That void, is what you need to explore. You sound very empty, and that's not unusual, we all have empty places in us, but no person can fill it. Your kids can't fill it, your wife can't fill it, only you can fill it. If you lack security in your self, no amount of affairs will change that. So, maybe start there, figure out why you seek the attention of women all the time, and then maybe you can stop the behavior and learn to love yourself, and your wife.

You can't love your wife if you don't love yourself.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

AR- said:


> In mid-2012 I met a woman online and met up with her twice. At the end of 2012 I met a different woman at work who I had an interest in. I became intimate with her in 2013 and was up until now. 2017 was a different woman, overlapping. 7 women. And I am very uncomfortable saying that.


Honesty. Good. Uncomfortable? Yeah, it is going to be really uncomfortable when you start getting real and start figuring out what's behind this and what's really going on with you. And it is going to be really uncomfortable to tell your wife the entire truth. 

Someone mentioned that you would need to tell the truth to family and friends, and maybe need therapy. But you're going to need a group of people around you that you trust who will keep you accountable. . .


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ban worthy post. apologies


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

AR- said:


> If my wife has straight out said that she doesn't want to know if I ever cheated on her again (after '99), why would I go against that wish and tell her? She doesn't want to know anything. She knows that I was having an affair, she hasn't asked any questions like people are claiming she would. She has only asked how long, then told me not to tell her.
> 
> If I didn't love my wife I wouldn't be here.


I think you're really really really missing the point here. If she wasn't happy that you cheated in '99, why would you keep cheating? Could it be that rather than not wanting to know, she doesn't want you to DO IT? You're interpreting what she says as, oh well, I can do it as long as I'm discreet and my wife doesn't find out. Is that what SHE means?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


 @AR-

First I'd like to let you know that I've been in your shoes, in that I was unfaithful to my Dear Hubby about 9 years ago. Now... Dear Hubby has passed away since then, but my point in telling you is that I'm not saying what I say out of judgement or with ill intent. I'm speaking purely the truth as I understand from the point of view of someone who has been there and reconciled. 

Second, I need to re-iterate what the others have been telling you. You can't "fix it." Your actions (adultery) are sort of like dropping a bomb on a town, and buildings are crushed to smithereens from the bomb explosion. Your question is "How do I undo the damage and bring the buildings back?" and you know what? They are so blown up that you can not undo that damage and bring those same buildings back. When a bomb destroys a house, some people choose to rebuild an ENTIRELY NEW HOUSE...and some choose to go live somewhere else. That's what we're telling you. If your wife were to choose to stay, it will never, ever be "the way it was"--it would be a whole new marriage. And honestly, she may choose to go live somewhere else! And that is within her right no matter what YOU want, because YOUR actions and choices were what dropped the bomb! 

Third, if you want to try to "rebuild" I would say that the very first thing you should do is stop talking and making promises. Right now, your promises mean NOTHING--no, less than nothing--to her. You've broken your promises so many times, it probably makes her mad just to hear you talk! So stop talking and start LIVING honestly. Being honest means letting her see the real you, your thoughts and feelings, without hiding behind a mask of whatever image you want to project. Being honest means that you tell her the truth because you believe she can handle it--even if you are afraid she'll be mad or not like it. Being honest means that even when no one is watching and you could "get away with it" you tell the truth anyway. Being honest means that you have to take the risk of letting someone see you, warts and all. 

Right I suspect you don't want to be seen with warts. You want to make things "the way they were" because that was working for you: a nice lady at home to run the house and take care of the kids...and the occasional strumpet on the side for some sexual distraction. Well...that doesn't honor her, honor your vows, or work for her! So if you want to "fix it" you have to start by LIVING DIFFERENTLY...and you start living differently by thinking differently. The world isn't about you and what you want and who you want.

So take your eyes off of her and her decisions, and instead put your focus on you. Where did you go wrong? What do you need to do to become the man you want to be? What can you do now--today--to start being the man you want to be? Just do it. Stop talking and promising and just do it.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

smi11ie said:


> I doubt you will be able to be faithful. I think you are kidding yourself on if you believe that. Be honest, when you get your feet under the table again then you will think about sexploits. I would not be surprised if you are thinking about stuff even now. A full confession to her, your family and friends might help save you. In addition you would probably need a lot of therapy.


Every man thinks about other women. They don't necessarily act on it but they think about it. Yeah, I'm stressed to the max and would love to go **** someone but I'm not. My wife won't even look at me or speak to me but I'm not running to someone else even though I could. I can be faithful to my wife, even if she doesn't want me right now. I'm getting pissed off. I love my wife, I want to be with my wife. I don't need people bashing me rather than trying to help. My wife doesn't walk away easily and isn't a quitter, if I can do the right things I can save our marriage. Do I need to say that I love my wife in every single post? 

Why am I supposed to torture her by telling her everything, when she has clearly said that she does NOT want to know? In '99 she knew that I cheated on her because one of the women told her to hurt her. She didn't know the full story and it was still a few years of hell after that. She has never totally gotten over it and every once in a while it comes up. So when she says she doesn't want to know, she doesn't want to know. What other way is there to interpret "If you cheat on me again I don't want to know and don't let me find out"? Said a handful of times in our marriage, including when we were having intimacy problems. 

Telling friends and family is not going to happen. It is our business, no one else. The few who do know are the select few who will ever know.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.
> 
> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> ...


Dear god, the way you describe your W she comes across as a wonderful woman and she does not deserve to be ****ed around by a selfish man like you.

Do her a favour and come clean, get a divorce, and get away from her.

What kind of stresses are we talking? Marital, Financial, Work Related, Anxieties? No amount of stress is an excuse for how you have behaved, none.

Your wife is there to help you work through issues, not to be **** on like this.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

You seem to be missing the point. We are giving you our honest opinions and advice. If you know better then do it your way. We are just telling you to drop the mask and be honest about who you are. It will lead to a more fulfilling relationship and more worthwhile life.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Nobody's bashing you, @AR-. People are prodding you to examine the situation and to think, about a host of things, including what makes you tick, why you have had so many relationships outside your marriage. I still think that "I don't know want to know about it" means, "I don't want you to do it." You said in this last post that there were times you and your wife were having intimacy problems, and you've admitted to the fact that she still has resentment from the time in '99 when you cheated, having never really gotten over it. Doesn't that suggest she is broken by your cheating? The solution is not to keep cheating, is it? 

I don't doubt that you love your wife. But this last post suggests that the healing from the '99 incident never happened, and while you laud and praise your wife, it seems clear that at the very critical levels of trust and intimacy, there are some residual issues that may have never been addressed. That's why people asked for more information. 1999 was 19 years ago, before you guys even got married. Your marriage may have even started on a shaky foundation. Perhaps there is work you both could do to resolve some of that old but festering hurt. Affaircare gave you some great advice, and I think Deidre is on to something about a void that you are seeking to fill (that's certainly the case with my ex). Whatever it is, taking a step back and taking a breather would probably help a lot.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.


No. You are wrong. You do not understand that you are coming across exactly right. What you don't understand is that you are coming at things from a completely wrong perspective. You want your wife back, but is that even what is best for her? Most of us here think probably not. Some here think absolutely not.

This is because you are a cheater and your main concern is about getting back what you torched and burned to the ground. It's gone. You will never get it back. It is remotely possible that you might be able to make something new and start from scratch, but you are not even at square one right now. You are at square -50. You would have to start digging out of your hole. 

Before I would ever recommend that your marriage might be worth saving, I'd have to see a completely turn around where your focus isn't on yourself, but on what is good for your wife. Right now seeing you isn't good for your wife at all. She needs you to leave her alone. She needs you to not fight her for anything in the divorce, but to be willing to give it all to her and seek what will help her to start over again with absolutely no guarantee that she might even consider taking you back again.

Repentance means doing the very best you can to change whatever is inside you to do such horrible things and trying to make amends.

Making amends includes not looking for a "fair" divorce settlement, but instead focusing on making things as comfortable for your wife and children in their new circumstances as possible and you living as frugally as possible while still maintaining your own personal health and taking proper care of your children. It means not fighting your wife, but having true sorrow over how you have hurt her and your children.

It means getting therapy and finding out what is broken that you would behave in such a destructive manner to those you claim to love.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

AR- said:


> I'm getting pissed off. I love my wife, I want to be with my wife. Do I need to say that I love my wife in every single post?





AR- said:


> •I slept with two people in 1999; friends.
> •I slept with someone in 2009; met online
> •I slept with someone in 2010; met through work
> •I slept with someone in 2012; met online
> ...


You've got a really ****ed up way of showing her you love her.
God forbid if she was stupid enough to take you back how long would it be before you get "stressed out" and go on to schtupping #8?

Another thing, there can be no chance of reconciliation until you tell her EVERYTHING that the two of you need to reconcile, otherwise, you are setting up for a future of trickle truth and that will end poorly.

Pissed off, Huh? Maybe you should have thought of that before you pissed all over your marriage.
With all of the great attributes, you say your wife has, you should re-read @FalCod 's post #28 and @CynthiaDe 's post above and put it into practice. If the truth pisses you off, you better be prepared to be really pissed off if you plan on sticking around TAM. No one here is going to blow smoke up your ass to make you feel good about your serial cheating. 
I truly hope this is a bogus story because it really sucks to think a portion of society could be this self-entitled and thick.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

AR- said:


> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> •I slept with two people in 1999; friends.
> •I slept with someone in 2009; met online
> ...


Dawg, just end your marriage and get it over with. You're a hound and will always be one. Your out hunting bush at work, around town, and on line and you are a sex addict. If she's dumb enough to give you another chance, your going to fall off the wagon and riding another mare in short order . Release this woman from the hell you've got her in. She's nothing more than a base camp for you anyway. Why don't you just go ahead and scream it.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I am normally pro R but really?.........I dont think there is any hope here nor should there be. I don't think you will change. If You reconciled you would eventually become complacent again and reach for someone else to give you whatever it is you so desparately need to soothe yourself.

Your poor wife.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

Nevermind.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you realize that you could contract (or, have already contracted) an STD and pass it along to your wife? You could put her life in danger - the life of the mother of your children? She can't afford to stick her head in the sand and you can't either. Unless, you want to be parenting those children all by your lonesome.

You need to get her in for full STD screening and yourself as well. If she balks, tell her that you are looking after her health. Then, you need to start having an authentic marriage wherein you address issues that are causing you stress and you come completely clean about your exploits. Build a new marriage based on truth. This is supposing that she'll consider staying with you.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

If you really want to work it out, then start working on yourself. You need a professional to help you develop better coping mechanisms and communication methods than sleeping with someone every time you’re stressed. What was the point of marrying your wife if you don’t even communicate about your issues? Don’t make it any more complicated for her than it has already gotten. You need individual therapy. Your actions from this point forward will be determinant, not just your words.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

You have been asking what you can do? This is your wife's decision and she will need time and patience. In the meantime, do work on yourself-- go to therapy and see learn how you can become a better man. Help with kids, help around the house, there are many books at the library--bookstore that you can read on affairs and affects it has on a marriage.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

You do not seem to have the capacity for empathy, humility, and remorse. 

Do you care about how your wife feels at all, or is it all about you? You're still lying to her.

This is exhibit A of why "don't ask don't tell" is BS


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

How many affairs did you have? How long did it /they last? Does she know about all of it? Did she find out or did you tell her?

So you choose her and went back to her did you? No you didn't. You CHOOSE to cheat lie and deceive. You chose other women over her. You put sex with them above her, the marriage and the children. Now you are facing the consequences which may well mean you loose her and to a large extent the children. That what happens when you commit adultery. You wreck peoples lives. You wreck the trust and intimacy. What did you expect? You are sorry you got caught.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.
> 
> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> ...


No, the cause has has always been a lack of character on your part. 

Do you not think we all face stress?

Here's the thing; part of being married is to have someone to share your life with, the hard times as well as the good times. We are to be there for each other through thick and thin. You wife stuck by you during times of stress. How is it you couldn't meet this most basic requirement of marriage? I'm sure she would have much rather had you share your stress with her than your intimacy with another woman.

You are pissed about getting beaten up on this thread. You will continue to get beaten up until one of the blows actually lands in the right spot and wakes your clueless self up. It's called the 2x4 around these parts and you will continue to be subject to it until such time you stop minimizing, avoiding, rationalizing, and fully own up to what you have done, the fact that it is completely inconsistent with your insistent claims of loving your wife, and demonstrate real understanding, and along with it genuine remorse and sorrow for what you have done.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

AR- said:


> If I didn’t want to be with my wife I wouldn’t be here humiliating myself and asking for help. Clearly I am coming off wrong and giving the wrong impression. The woman I want to be with is my wife.
> 
> My wife and I are both 35. We have been together since we were 12 and married in 2002.
> 
> ...


You have to tell her all of this. You are a serial cheat, you have a terrible record and I highly doubt you will ever stop. 
No you dont love your wife. If you did you wouldn't cheat over and over and over again. You wouldn't lie and deceive her so often. You wouldn't put her health at risk by exposing her to Std's. You wouldn't risk your marriage and losing your family for sordid sex. Words are easy, you are not showing that you love her or the children. 

Of course dont tell her the positions etc, you know full well that's not what people here are saying, but you need to tell her how many times you have cheated and how many women you have cheated with. 

She desperately needs to get tested for STD's, that's if she hasn't already got one which she may well have.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Here's your next clues: use them wisely (although I have little hope you will)

1. You seem to think that "it didn't mean anything" is a mitigation in your favor and that the meaninglessness of your action means your wife should accept and/or ignore it. You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, the why of betrayal never really matters: betrayal is betrayal, period. Moreover, it's one thing to cast aside your sacred vows which is in itself inexcusable, but to do it for something so "meaningless" really sends the message that you have no respect for your partner or your union. How do you think your wife feels when you tell her you violated her "for nothing?"!!!

2. You said you didn't want to go into full disclosure of all your affairs because you didn't want to boast. That you think of this as something that is boast-worthy, rather than shame-worthy, tells a lot. Most of all, it tells us you have a very skewed view of sex & marriage, and that you have zero empathy for your wife and how she would rightfully view your actions. It doesn't mean you're a stud, it means you're an insensitive, self-serving (insert ban-worthy words here), who is in no way deserving of a relationship with a good woman.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

AR- said:


> Nevermind.


 Big surprise!
At least you didn't just ghost us.


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

AR- said:


> Every man thinks about other women. They don't necessarily act on it but they think about it. Yeah, I'm stressed to the max and would love to go **** someone but I'm not. My wife won't even look at me or speak to me but I'm not running to someone else even though I could. I can be faithful to my wife, even if she doesn't want me right now. I'm getting pissed off. I love my wife, I want to be with my wife. I don't need people bashing me rather than trying to help. My wife doesn't walk away easily and isn't a quitter, if I can do the right things I can save our marriage. Do I need to say that I love my wife in every single post?
> 
> Why am I supposed to torture her by telling her everything, when she has clearly said that she does NOT want to know? In '99 she knew that I cheated on her because one of the women told her to hurt her. She didn't know the full story and it was still a few years of hell after that. She has never totally gotten over it and every once in a while it comes up. So when she says she doesn't want to know, she doesn't want to know. What other way is there to interpret "If you cheat on me again I don't want to know and don't let me find out"? Said a handful of times in our marriage, including when we were having intimacy problems.
> 
> Telling friends and family is not going to happen. It is our business, no one else. The few who do know are the select few who will ever know.


Because not telling her everything will continue to reinforce what a dishonest person you really are. No idea why she should forgive or stay with you. You will just cheat on her again and again


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

AR- said:


> "If you didn't stop the affair until she found you out, then it looks more like you are sorry you got caught (and afraid of the consequences), rather than sorry for the affair. Not good."
> 
> How do I make it not look like that?
> 
> I know that I hurt her. She hasn't had an affair so maybe I don't know exactly but that can't mean we can't stay together. I haven't trickled truth.


You can’t change what you did. What did you think was going to happen when you got caught?

Sorry but I hope your wife finds someone that truly loves her and will be faithful. You obviously don’t because you would have never cheated on her if you did. 

The only way you might have kept your marriage is. The first time you slept with someone else. If you came right to her and been truthful and never did it again. You didn’t do this. How many affairs did you have?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

AR- said:


> I just need to know what to do about it. How to get her to talk to me so we can work it out. I don't need to put out every detail of our lives. I don't see why that is necessary. I just need to fix it.


You can’t fix anything. Your wife has to be the one to decide to stay with you and fix things. 

If she was on here, I would tell her to file for divorce and take you to the cleaners. 

Now that is said her is something you can do. 

Don’t fight against what she decides to do. 

Go along with the divorce if that is what she wants. 

Then after the divorce don’t date or go out with anyone. 

Ask your ex if the two of you can date again. 

Show by your actions that you will be faithful to her after you are divorced. 

There was a wife that cheated. Her thread is on tam somewhere. A little over a year after their divorce they started dating again. She never dated after the divorce, to busy with the kids and being a single parent.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

AR- said:


> Regardless of what we were going through she has always been a good wife. She is caring, selfless, she knows how to take care of a home and finances. She could care less about material items and just wants time spent as a family. She is the mother of my kids and is a good mom. I don't want our kids to be from a broken home. We have been together almost our whole lives, she has been my best friend from age 3. She knew that I cheated on her when we were teenagers and had no requirement to stay together (marriage or kids). She chose to stay rather than run. She keeps her commitments and promises. She's faithful, even if I don't deserve it. She is respectful. She is raising our kids to be good people. I enjoy her company.


Bla bla bla. Never once said I love my wife.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

AR- said:


> I can be faithful to my wife. I am aware that I have work to do on myself, but I want to do that with my wife not without her. My wife deserves me to be faithful to her.


Yep she did. You proved without a doubt that you couldn’t be.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Don’t tell your wife anything until she asks you to. It’s not like you can force her to seat there and listen to it. 

Just be honest if she starts asking questions.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You can also write out a time line of what you have done. Then let her decide if she wants to read it or not.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@AR-, maybe this may help you gain some perspective around this.

What if YOU found out that since 2000, she's had affairs with multiple people (I'm NOT suggesting she did, I'm just setting up something to think about).

She has kept it from you, deceived you about these various affairs. HOW would that make you feel? Wouldn't you feel that she didn't really value your marriage, your vows? Wouldn't YOU feel betrayed and hurt, thinking about all the men she's had inside her and enjoyed?

She would say, oh it was only SEX -- didn't mean anything. DOESN'T That make you wonder how she can compartmentalize things and maybe YOUR are just a box in the many boxes of her life instead of a central box?

Does this help you understand what SHE is going through? THAT is what you don't seem to get in the messages you've sent. It seems to me that it is all "I want..." "I don't want her to..." "how do I GET MY life back...." type of stuff. I haven't seen anything about you worrying about what SHE is going through, how much damage you have caused HER and your family. It ISN'T JUST SEX -- you made a vow to her to ONLY be with her, and now your word, and indeed ANYTHING you say to her will be viewed as something she cannot believe in (and probably wonders about anything she thought your marriage was for the entire time of it -- you've just destroyed all of her memories with you).

Flip the issue and see if you can understand it from her perspective...


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AR- said:


> Nevermind.


AR, out of HERE!

7 he even admits too! And still believes he is the "good" man to his wife. And, AR wife doesn't want to know the truth? Glass houses? What do I know? I took back a serial cheating wife myself. Yeah! Whatever.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

AR- said:


> Every man thinks about other women. They don't necessarily act on it but they think about it. Yeah, I'm stressed to the max and would love to go **** someone but I'm not. My wife won't even look at me or speak to me but I'm not running to someone else even though I could. I can be faithful to my wife, even if she doesn't want me right now. I'm getting pissed off. I love my wife, I want to be with my wife. I don't need people bashing me rather than trying to help. My wife doesn't walk away easily and isn't a quitter, if I can do the right things I can save our marriage. Do I need to say that I love my wife in every single post?
> 
> Why am I supposed to torture her by telling her everything, when she has clearly said that she does NOT want to know? In '99 she knew that I cheated on her because one of the women told her to hurt her. She didn't know the full story and it was still a few years of hell after that. She has never totally gotten over it and every once in a while it comes up. So when she says she doesn't want to know, she doesn't want to know. What other way is there to interpret "If you cheat on me again I don't want to know and don't let me find out"? Said a handful of times in our marriage, including when we were having intimacy problems.
> 
> Telling friends and family is not going to happen. It is our business, no one else. The few who do know are the select few who will ever know.


AR, you have received a lot of feedback here and I still see you are not getting it. You are in self-preservation mode. For a man to step out on his so-called wonderful wife so many times and only have some concern because he has got caught shows a high level of lack of self-awareness and empathy for your wife and family. 
Let's be frank, you do not give a **** about your wife so do not even talk of love. You have no idea the damage you have caused and are still considering what you need. What you need is for her to leave you and for her to take up with another man and live a happy life with him, then maybe you will begin to comprehend what you have done. You only want to save the marriage because it is convenient and comfortable for you, all the wrong reasons.
Your wife is probably in shock, reality has not hit her yet, but believe me, eventually, she will want to know.

Be a decent human being and tell her the extent of your betrayal. She has a right to know so that she can make decisions about her own future based on the truth and not a version of truth spun by you, that is just adding insult to injury. You say you can be faithful to your wife, but I doubt it. 

Frankly, I do not think you should be married, you are not marriage material plain and simple. Do your wife a favor and let her go so she can find someone when she is still young you will love her and be faithful to her.
BTW stress is no excuse, we are all stressed in one way or another. If stress is your trigger than how on earth can you make her a promise to be faithful, you do not sound like you are even honest with yourself. Get real with yourself first.

Although your cheating is not your wife's fault, there must be something you miss in the marriage, what is it? You have to examine yourself and your own behavior first, maybe you will never be able to change, some people are serial cheaters, that is just who they are.

Your wife's statements came from hurt, she asked you not to let her know, but things are different now, now she knows. You messed up in more ways than one.

Lastly, stop being so defensive, noone here knows who you are, noone cares who you are. You want help, then hear people out and have some respect.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Big surprise!
> At least you didn't just ghost us.


I doubt he will be back, he had the backbone to cheat and destroy his family but doesn't have the cajones to face up to what he actually is with people on TAM who can see right through him. AR you will not make any of this right till you make yourself right first and be prepared to face the flaws in your character and deal with them.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

AR- said:


> I took my wife for granted. She has been my partner for 23 years. My whole life has been spent with her. I took for granted something that has been there as long as I have existed. She found out I was having an affair and now I am losing her. I can’t lose her. There needs to be hope. She is still at home, so that needs to count for something. I know I was wrong but I always went back to her. I stayed with her. I didn’t leave her. I chose her. She won’t talk to me or let me near our kids. Begging her to talk to me isn’t helping. I need something that will help. It’s my marriage and family on the line.


 Wow, your wife is a real witch. 

I mean, you 'chose' *her* to come home to every time you zipped up after getting yourself some strange, so why isn't she *grateful* for that? Don't tell me she's *****ing at you about how unfair it is that you've continually risked her health with the pig parade you've been banging for years? I mean, so what??? What's a little cancer causing strain of HPV amongst friends anyway, right? And I'm sure you're extremely intelligent and know that you can get Herpes *with or without *a condom but again, one would think you're such an incredible prize of a husband that your wife should be _more_ than grateful to be the recipient of either of those two things (and a lot more nasty things I haven't mentioned) just for the pleasure of keeping you in her life.

Yeah, she's a real ungrateful witch, that one.

Now OP, I personally think you're just bored and got hold of your daddy's computer, but in case your story is actually real, I just want to tell you what a hot stud I think you are.

But, you overplayed your hand this time.

I suggest - just as a show of *faith* - that you have a post-nup drafted up by what passes for a lawyer down in your neck of the woods as soon as possible. Your document should dictate that the lion's share of your single-wide home goes to your wife in the case of divorce. She also gets your **** hound, your guns and your beer can collection. For now, leave out the tractor and the '87 Ford Pickup. Maybe THAT will show her how serious you are and how dedicated you are to her.

Of course we all know you're not dedicated to anyone but your measly prick, but SHE doesn't have to know that...right, Stud? :wink2:


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?

You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop? 
ii
I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need. You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

AR- said:


> Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?
> 
> You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop?
> ii
> I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences.* I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need.* You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.


We are trying to help her, to get away from you.

Read your statement above that I have bolded, over and over. You have to? :wtf: :banghead: :banghead:

You are still cheating on her now are you not (your list of misdeeds states that one occurrence was 2012-present).

How can you say you can be faithful to someone and then say you *have* to cheat?

People here may not like you, but that is not the reason for all the vitriol. They are trying to get you to see what a jerk you are *for your wife's sake* not yours.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

AR- said:


> Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?
> 
> You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop?
> ii
> I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need. You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.


May people here have been trying to help her. They've been doing so by telling you to leave her. She'd be better off without a cheating husband risking her physical and emotional help. 

Look at your statement above. You still don't take responsibility for what you did. You act like it is something you couldn't help doing. That's bull****. Your problem is that you love yourself far, far more than you love your wife.

Go back and read your first post. You weren't full of remorse for the damage you did to your family. You were full of remorse because you were afraid that you were going to lose her. Your concern was (and seems to always be) for yourself.

It has been stressed over and over, but I'll say it again. You cannot "fix" this. You shattered it. Your only hope is that your wife, against the advice that probably anyone here would give her, decides to stay with you and try to make it work. It has been suggested that you be open an honest to her, but you reject that idea. You claim it is because she won't want to know but we all see passed that and know that it is because you'd rather keep hiding as much of what you did as possible to protect yourself.


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

I have not seen any other woman since my wife found out. I talk to one because she is one of the only people who know what is going on. I have not had sex. It's something that I want to do and don't want to do. I know that it is wrong and I know I am an ass for doing it anyway. It's that or something else. People get over all sorts of behaviors, I can stop. I need my wife and my family. 

Yeah, I don't want to tell her everything because I want to protect myself. That is true. I also want to protect her. How am I supposed to look her in the eye and tell her everything? That is going to hurt her more than she is already hurting. If she couldn't get over what she thinks was one person 19 years ago, how is she supposed to ever get over this? With or with me? Why should she have to carry that around? It should be buried for her sake.

I'm not leaving her. Leaving her for what would seem like another woman is better for her? Going back down that route is really ****ing better? No. I'm not leaving her. If she wants to leave then she can, but I don't want her to. I'm not giving up on my marriage. Or letting some other man raise my kids.

I get that there is nothing I can do to fix it. Ok? I get it. There has to be things I can do to make it easier for my wife or to help her. Things that don't involve hurting her more. I get y'all want her to leave me, but I'm not going to purposely hurt her even more by telling her, so she will leave me. If she wanted to leave, she'd be gone already. Stop trying to sabotage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

AR- said:


> Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?
> 
> You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop?
> ii
> I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need. You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.



Advice for her

1. Do the 180 on AR and go see a good lawyer
2. Get IC for yourself to get through this **** storm
3. Rely on the support of a good friend or sibling
4. Take good care of yourself, eat properly, get rest, you need to be there for the kids
5. When you are ready, you may or may not want to know the details from AR
6. Save yourself and move on

For you AR
1. sounds to me like you have a sex addiction
2. Get professional help from Sex Addicts Anon


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

AR- said:


> Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?
> 
> You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop?
> ii
> I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need. You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.


Why, I'd LOVE to help your wife. Please give me her email address and phone number and I'll be more than happy to guide her.

I'm truly sorry that your constant need for strange and being a slave to your pitiful genitals seems to eclipse ANY concern you might have for your wife. Apparently, getting your rocks off eclipses the risk of infecting your wife with a lifelong STD or worse yet, something nasty enough to cause her to have to be carved up like a Christmas turkey and lose her feminine body parts - all because* you're* a slave to your pitiful d*ck.

You know, I'm absolutely amazed that the Husband of the Year Prize Patrol hasn't shown up at your door with a big old trophy for you. It's mind-boggling, really.

You'll forgive me if simply can't choke up any sympathy for a supposed man who acts like a dog in heat and has to screw anything with a pulse because he's too damned selfish to look past his own nose and realize his pig behavior DOES affect others.

Personally, I hope she divorces you and takes you for every last red cent she can get. But since it appears that you dedicate most of your time to unzipping your pants rather than ambitiously carving out a career for yourself, I'll assume you must be minimally employed so even THAT will be a disappointment for her.

Golly gee. I guess you're just one big old disappointment all the way *around,* aren't you?

Too bad.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

AR- said:


> I have not seen any other woman since my wife found out. I talk to one because she is one of the only people who know what is going on. I have not had sex. It's something that I want to do and don't want to do. I know that it is wrong and I know I am an ass for doing it anyway. It's that or something else. People get over all sorts of behaviors, I can stop. I need my wife and my family.
> 
> Yeah, I don't want to tell her everything because I want to protect myself. That is true. I also want to protect her. How am I supposed to look her in the eye and tell her everything? That is going to hurt her more than she is already hurting. If she couldn't get over what she thinks was one person 19 years ago, how is she supposed to ever get over this? With or with me? Why should she have to carry that around? It should be buried for her sake.
> 
> ...


Look @AR- This isn't about sabotage. If you truly want to try and reconcile with your wife you have to be 100% open and honest with her. If she does bring herself to forgive you for the one affair 19 years ago and gives your marriage another go, how do you think she will then react when one of the other 6 (is it 6 more? sheesh..) phones her one day to come clean about your carrying on? Its better for both of you to get everything in the open now to have any chance of a meaningful future together. 

Perhaps she wont want to know all the details, as she said, but she needs to know at the very least the quantity involved.

You also need to stop all contact with affair partner number 5 (is it number 5, its hard to keep track) now. No your not ****ing right now, but discussing your marriage with another women (who you have slept with beind your wife's back) is still a betrayal of your marriage vows by itself.

Also, what will happen when you *NEED* to go get you some fresh meat (number 8)?????


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

AR, you really need to see a psychiatrist that specializes in sex addiction. What would you recommend to someone who told you every time they get stressed, they go on a weeks long drunk? Believe me my man, I know what I'm talking about.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Me me me me me.

I want

I need

I can't

That's all I see in any of your posts.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

AR- said:


> Y'all could have at least helped me for my wife's sake. You don't like me, fine. You don't think I deserve her, fine. You think I should vanish, fine. What about her? What does she deserve?
> 
> You think I don't know that I'm a piece of ****? You think I don't know that I don't deserve her? You think I don't know that she should have left me 19 years ago, if not sooner? You think I'm unaware that I risk my health, but more importantly her health, every time I'm with someone else? You think I've never tried to stop?
> ii
> I didn't marry her thinking I was going to cheat on her. I thought I would get over it. I know that it is wrong. I know that it hurts my wife. I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. When something is going on, that is what I need. You think I enjoy that? And the core? No. **** no. You think I ever meant to have an affair for years? Hell no. Then get bored of her and essentially cheat on the woman I'm cheating with? You think I wanted my wife to see me with another woman? Y'all think that was ever in the plan? I never wanted to hurt her. I'm not ****ing stupid, I have always known that I am. I am trying to change that. So for the love of God, help her, not me.





lifeistooshort said:


> Me me me me me.
> 
> I want
> 
> ...


29 of them in that post alone.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AR- said:


> *I have not seen any other woman since my wife found out. I talk to one because she is one of the only people who know what is going on. I have not had sex. *It's something that I want to do and don't want to do. I know that it is wrong and I know I am an ass for doing it anyway.


AR is back... Cured! All Better Now!

Seriously, tell your wife the full extent of your betrayal. Give her the choice. Yeah, she may kick you out for good... but, it's the first, right thing you have done for her. Play time is over.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"You think I've never tried to stop? "
"I know the consequences. I do it anyway. I have to. "

So this is some of what folks have been trying to tell you -- YOU need to work on this (not your wife). YOU need to get to counselling to try to understand WHY you feel compelled to do this, and also to try to figure out how to control yourself. If you can't YOU CANNOT be good for your wife (or any other partner).

START with this at least first while your wife tries to figure things out for herself. If you don't take AT LEAST this step, what makes you think she will trust anything you say or do? If she doesn't see any steps of you trying to fix this about yourself, WHY would she want you around?


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## AR- (Jun 3, 2018)

So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?

1. Stop contact with other women.
2. ??


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??*COME CLEAN ABOUT EVERYTHING*


3. Let her go live her life with someone who can love her.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??


The problem is you keep asking this question but you only want to hear the answer to a completely different question which is how can *you *keep from losing what *you *don't want to lose.

The bottom line here is that you pretend to want to help your wife when all you've really demonstrated is that you just want to help yourself. 

You have to wake up and realize that putting your focus on keeping what you want has nothing to do with helping your wife at this point. Until you get that, you have zero chance of helping your wife, but that doesn't seem to be your goal anyway.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??


See a counsellor
You may have a sex addiction ! Try Sex Addicts Anonymous or similar organisation
Leave your marriage aside for now, work on yourself first.
There is no point talking with your wife unless to tell her the whole extent of what has happened. Do not hide this from her. Women have a sixth sense and she will find out, then it’s really over.
If you have a sex addiction, you will need to tell her also.
Seek counselling now


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??


Find an individual counselor who specializes in infidelity and schedule an appointment. Your wife may find you taking initiative to fix yourself to be a start.

Your statement that your wife found out because she saw you with the woman when your wife was somewhere she shouldn't have been is sounding like blameshifting. Do not, repeat DO NOT, attempt to blame your wife for your behavior. That would be cruel and self-serving. 

You two rug-swept your affair in 1999 and look where it got you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??


2. Sit her down and give her the actual number of women you've cheated with. Give her their names so she knows who not to trust. Make sure she's aware of where you've met these women, so she can be aware of where the danger zones are for you - work, your hobbies, church, online, whatever. 

3. Read "Surviving the Affair" by W. Harley. It contains a list of things to do. Serial cheaters, particularly, will need to so alter their daily lives that cheating becomes nearly impossible. That may mean that you work from home, that you never again spend a night apart from your wife, that you no longer participate in any social media, that you no longer have unrestricted internet access, that you wife has the right to monitor your calls, emails, texts - whatever is needed to ensure to your wife that you don't have the option to ever be cheating on her again. Only you can decide if you're actually willing to live in such a way that you can't repeat your cheating behaviors. Only she can decide if you're worth the trouble. 

4. Get into intensive therapy with someone who has experience with addiction treatment. You apparently are self-medicating with affairs, rather than alcohol or pills, but it's an addictive behavior nonetheless. Once that's addressed, get into intensive therapy with someone who has experience with helping couples heal from infidelity and with addressing character issues. To do this right, you're going to spend years in therapy learning how to be a different person. Or not. Your choice. 


OP, you also need to realize that it's highly unlikely you've been as exemplary a husband - aside from the cheating - as you imagine. The same personality traits that make cheating an option for you, tend to carry over into all of your other interactions as well. For example, it's highly unlikely that you're really any more honest with your wife about other things than you are about your affairs. You may have other addictive behaviors - smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, spending, adrenaline - that impact your wife and marriage negatively. Your communication skills are poor. Your empathy is low. You lack fundamental respect for your wife. You are probably highly ego-centric to the point of near-narcissism. You're manipulative. You may be selfish, demanding, temperamental, or alternately _very_ passive-aggressive. Chances are, that the character traits that permit your serial cheating manifest in a host of other ways that you may not be aware of, but that your wife has been living with for her entire adult life. In fact, she may not even realize herself how unhealthy your marital dynamic is, having known nothing different.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. All this bluster and blame shifting is pathetic. If she takes you back as you currently are you will break her heart. Do you want your kids to grow up like you....all image and no substance? Get some therapy.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Send your wife here.


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## Coach23 (Mar 16, 2018)

AR: 

Your wife, if you truly love her, regardless of what she may be saying deserves the WHOLE truth about who she is married to, so she can make a fully informed decision about HER life. She deserves you to give her that. If she decides to give you another shot, it is without deceit or hidden lies. Once you have the full truth on the table, if she decided to reconcile, you can then build a relationship with truth as the foundation since truth IS the foundation of a REAL marriage, however I sense YOU don’t want her to know everything, because YOUR AFRAID that would likely put her over the top, and the marriage would come to an end. 

You have now given the woman you say you LOVE a life she never asked for and now you again want to take her choice away by lying through omission. This again is not fair to her. At what point do you put HER ahead of yourself? When someone truly loves another person they put them ahead of themselves. Are you selfless enough and man enough to do that?

You’re looking for advice on how to save and build a true marriage and everyone here is giving it to you, but you don’t like what people here are telling you, because it means risking it all. As long as you give the whole story here, you will not be able to pull the wool over people eyes on this site. They have seen, heard and experienced it all. 

Good Luck,


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Notice my post didn't say that he could get his wife back by turning to Jesus. My point was that if he really wants to be an honorable person he's going to need supernatural help. I agree with your post. Going to Jesus to get a marriage isn't really going to Jesus. Going to Jesus is all about surrender to God's will and allowing him to do the deep work.
> 
> I've been a Christian a long time and I don't see this very often where people become deeply spiritual. It seems that they become deeply religious instead. Not the same thing. Religion doesn't really change people from the inside out from what I have seen. What really changes people is a deep spiritual connection and allowing the Holy Spirit to expose, convict, and deliver where true healing can take place.


Jesus, supernatural or not... (I do not believe their is one path to personal growth). I 550% agree with you that getting to be an honorable person for its own sake is the goal not a stepping stone activity to get HIS wants met in the form of not loosing his wife.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Jesus, supernatural or not... (I do not believe their is one path to personal growth). I 550% agree with you that getting to be an honorable person for its own sake is the goal not a stepping stone activity to get HIS wants met in the form of not loosing his wife.


Yes. In fact losing his wife may be the very thing that leads him to wake up and realize that he needs to change his life and become and honorable man.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

RWB said:


> AR, out of HERE!
> 
> 7 he even admits too! And still believes he is the "good" man to his wife. And, AR wife doesn't want to know the truth? Glass houses? What do I know? I took back a serial cheating wife myself. Yeah! Whatever.


Maybe she does not want to know the details. That is up to her. The point should be about what SHE wants not what he wants to be able to hide, in the spirit of full openness and honesty. At this point, if she does not want to so much as look at him, it sounds like she has all the information she needs.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Things to do TODAY, 

1} NEVER and I mean NEVER contact (any) ANY!!! other woman again. They cannot help you save your marriage or your morality, moral compass etc. The only thing they will offer is PERSONAL SOLACE and frankly solace will NOT save your marriage. 

The other women were accomplices in the destruction of your marriage, HOW do you think they or any further contact will help?
News flash: It WONT! 

Okay, Breath

2} Realize ONCE AND FOR ALL, that your wife said she didn't want to know about more affairs (IN THE FUTURE) was ACTUALLY code for (do it again and I find out, you'r dumb son of a biotch I am through with you.) REALIZE you are dumb or an a-hole for misreading or rationalizing that as PERMISSION to cheat. NEVER SAY OR REPEAT THAT EXCUSE AGAIN. 

3} give her all the space she needs, BUT be available for her when necessary. Offer her the master bedroom, sleep on the floor in the kitchen if you don't have a couch or guest room. 

4} Admit all fault with family when told. 

5} Go work out to get endorphins running. Don't put any of your depression on her shoulders to sob and DONT YOU DARE ACT LIKE A VICTIM. 

How is that for a plan?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

AR- said:


> I have not seen any other woman since my wife found out. I talk to one because she is one of the only people who know what is going on. I have not had sex. It's something that I want to do and don't want to do. I know that it is wrong and I know I am an ass for doing it anyway. It's that or something else. People get over all sorts of behaviors, I can stop. I need my wife and my family.
> 
> Yeah, I don't want to tell her everything because I want to protect myself. That is true. I also want to protect her. How am I supposed to look her in the eye and tell her everything? That is going to hurt her more than she is already hurting. If she couldn't get over what she thinks was one person 19 years ago, how is she supposed to ever get over this? With or with me? Why should she have to carry that around? It should be buried for her sake.


You do not have the right to decide for HER what is good for HER. SHE does. And no one else.

I will be honest. I don't think you are worth helping. You are still stuck in self service mode. You don't care about her. You are not experiencing remorse or empathy. You are just sorry you got caught.

Good luck to you. Or really, good peace and well being to your wife.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

AR- said:


> I have not seen any other woman since my wife found out. I talk to one because she is one of the only people who know what is going on. I have not had sex. It's something that I want to do and don't want to do. I know that it is wrong and I know I am an ass for doing it anyway. It's that or something else. People get over all sorts of behaviors, I can stop. I need my wife and my family.
> 
> Yeah, I don't want to tell her everything because *I want to protect myself. That is true. I also want to protect her. How* am I supposed to look her in the eye and tell her everything? That is going to hurt her more than she is already hurting. If she couldn't get over what she thinks was one person 19 years ago, how is she supposed to ever get over this? With or with me? Why should she have to carry that around? It should be buried for her sake.
> 
> ...


Protecting her? No.... No. Protecting her would be providing her (knowledge) on who you really are and what you really have done. Because with information and knowledge of you (SHE) can protect herself. Truth is (KNOWLEDGE=POWER) And you are afraid to lose her, her being your POWER. you are still just saving yourself. PLEASE PLEASE STOP, this is NUMBER one rule for saving your marriage. You need to get that you already dealt the mortal death blow, you are just are not telling her how bad the wound really is.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

As a divorce attorney I can assure you that until it's officially over, it's not over. Sometimes even after divorce people reconcile. I've seen a crap ton of 11th hour cancellations the night before court. Honestly that usually depends more on the cheater, and their subsequent actions, than it does the person who got cheated on.

With that out of the way on to the other thing about the kids. She is in no way legally authorized to keep you from your children. You can put a stop to that by consulting with an attorney but I know you're afraid if you do that she'll immediately retain an attorney and file for divorce. She might. I see a lot of cheaters that might have had a chance instead push their betrayed right to filing by not treading lightly where they should have. Good luck.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

I just caught up on this thread. I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage. If you don't have advice on how to do that then why bother replying?

For the OP, you might want to check out survivinginfidelity.com under the wayward spouse section. It's targeted for wayward spouses trying to become better people and fix what they broke.

For the moderators, are there rules here regarding what is happening on this thread?


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

VermiciousKnid said:


> I just caught up on this thread. I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage. If you don't have advice on how to do that then why bother replying?
> 
> For the OP, you might want to check out survivinginfidelity.com under the wayward spouse section. It's targeted for wayward spouses trying to become better people and fix what they broke.
> 
> For the moderators,* are there rules here regarding what is happening on this thread*?


Yes there are rules, and some violations yes. This is not SI which is run on a more strict level. I am not a moderator, you can press the triangle ! at the bottom of the post under the posters name to alert a moderator.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

VermiciousKnid said:


> I just caught up on this thread. I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage. If you don't have advice on how to do that then why bother replying?
> 
> For the OP, you might want to check out survivinginfidelity.com under the wayward spouse section. It's targeted for wayward spouses trying to become better people and fix what they broke.
> 
> For the moderators, are there rules here regarding what is happening on this thread?


Well, I'm not a betrayed and have no such baggage to project. But even for me, it's crystal clear that OP is only concerned with what he fears losing all the while claiming to want what's best for his wife. 

The advice given, while harsh, has been spot on in most cases. If he's really concerned with her he needs to stop
1. worrying about himself and his exposure
2. blame shifting
3. minimizing
4. most of all, putting his wants before her needs and rights in the relationship

So far, he hasn't shown the slightest inclination to do any of the above, and therein lies the problem. Had he come on here with a genuine mea culpa and a true concern for someone other than himself, he'd be getting different treatment, more in line with what you seem to think is appropriate.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Well, I'm not a betrayed and have no such baggage to project. But even for me, it's crystal clear that OP is only concerned with what he fears losing all the while claiming to want what's best for his wife.


Which is actually counterproductive to reconciling with his wife! His self preservation attempts are at direct odds to reconciling with his WIFE.

The advice given, while harsh, has been spot on in most cases. If he's really concerned with her he needs to stop
1. worrying about himself and his exposure
2. blame shifting
3. minimizing
4. most of all, putting his wants before her needs and rights in the relationship

So far, he hasn't shown the slightest inclination to do any of the above, and therein lies the problem. Had he come on here with a genuine mea culpa and a true concern for someone other than himself, he'd be getting different treatment, more in line with what you seem to think is appropriate.[/QUOTE]


And that behavior on his part would be more in line with what he wants, so it is not like the responses are unfounded.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

VermiciousKnid said:


> *I just caught up on this thread.* I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage.


 I don't think you did if you believe he hasn't been getting a metric **** ton of good accurate advice, he just doesn't want to take that advice because it doesn't serve HIS needs. A few 2x4s have been swung at him to try to wake him up ... appears we may need 8x8s.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

My advice...

1. Get yourself to an SAA meeting. 30 days/30 meetings. 

2. Find a good therapist and get to work. You have at a bare minimum, extremely poor coping mechanisms. 

3. As for your wife...if she asks, be honest. Stop lying to her. That is all. Tell her you have so many issues that you are getting yourself into counseling. Admit that you have an incredible amount of work to do. Then get started.

There are few books, some of which were mentioned previously, that you can read that might help you salvage this marriage, but realistically I think you need to salvage yourself first. Realize that 1 month of not ****ing someone else just simply isn't good enough. You need to fundamentally change who you are. That won't happen scrambling around trying to save the marriage, all the while hiding who you really are and what you've really done.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

VermiciousKnid said:


> I just caught up on this thread. I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage. If you don't have advice on how to do that then why bother replying?
> 
> For the OP, you might want to check out survivinginfidelity.com under the wayward spouse section. It's targeted for wayward spouses trying to become better people and fix what they broke.
> 
> For the moderators, are there rules here regarding what is happening on this thread?


*Moderator message:-*

Yes. And posts within this thread that have breached the guidelines have been removed by moderators.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> I just caught up on this thread. I'd advise the betrayed posters to stop attacking this guy. He's not the person that cheated on you. Quit projecting. This is about coping with infidelity. That deals with both sides of infidelity. He's asking for help on how to save his marriage. If you don't have advice on how to do that then why bother replying?
> 
> For the OP, you might want to check out survivinginfidelity.com under the wayward spouse section. It's targeted for wayward spouses trying to become better people and fix what they broke.
> 
> For the moderators, are there rules here regarding what is happening on this thread?


Would you agree or disagree that in order to successfully reconcile the wayward spouse needs to take full responsibility, understand WHAT they did, and have remorse? Yeah...remorse IS important no matter what the cult says. He doesn't GET what he has done. THAT is why people keep going over it.

OP, you say you understand what you have done. When will you be telling your wife the truth, and what extraordinary precautions have you put into place to stop this from happening again.

Oh, and I assume you have stopped confiding in ANOTHER WOMAN about this, right?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

AR- said:


> So what am I supposed to do right now, today, to help my wife?
> 
> 1. Stop contact with other women.
> 2. ??


AR, we really don't know your wife, so we can't give recommendations that will SPECIFICALLY help her. Different people need different things, and you've posted limited information about her, so how can we know what she needs. 

SHE is going to need to tell you what she needs. And you need to do it, when she does tell you.

In the meantime, IF the marriage is to have a chance, you need to make yourself into someone she would want to be with. That means addressing all your faults. And that means looking very, very critically and insightfully at yourself and analyzing yourself accurately.

To say that you cheat under stress and that you "need it" is just too superficial of an analysis to result in any changes. You need to look at yourself DEEPER and more critically that that. You think other guys don't have an attraction to women as well? Why don't they cheat while you do? What is wrong with your psychological make-up that this is how your respond? That's why Vlad recommended you seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in Sex Addiction. To get to the root of the problem. If pure will-power or just telling yourself not to cheat was enough, you wouldn't be in this situation, especially after your 1999 incident (and her response), which should have taught you a lesson. However, that wasn't enough. You need to find out WHY in order to make yourself into a person worth staying with.

You also need to learn empathy for your wife's situation. Did you read the betrayed spouses' threads like I recommended? Because if you did, you would see that you behaved just like their cheating spouses did. In fact, the words you use are the EXACT SAME as their cheating spouses used. Exactly. Phrases like "it was only sex", "I came back to you", "I chose you", etc. These are the exact words you used. By learning these betrayed spouses' stories, you might gain insight into how your wife may feel and needs; and also, what made the difference between reconciling and not reconciling.

So read the other betrayed spouses' threads.

Finally, think about WHY your wife didn't want to know if you did cheat. You seemed to 
take it as permission to cheat as long as she didn't find out about it, but that's NOT what it is about. THINK to yourself...why did she not want to know? This may be important to understand what she needs. I can speculate some answers, but I think it is important that YOU try to answer it yourself first.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Firstly stay away from other women completely, secondly, be totally honest tell you wife what you have done, how many women etc, and thirdly, if she still wants to stay with you, get some good marriage counselling.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> *Moderator message:-*
> 
> Yes. And posts within this thread that have breached the guidelines have been removed by moderators.


Thank you sir. You're a gentleman and a scholar. I feel like a site like this could do a real public service if it offers a safe place to seek help. Those seeking help should include WS's as much as BS's.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

AR, How are you and how are things at home? Will you return or at least hear what is being said to you here?


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