# Isn't three years long enough?



## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

I am new to this site and have been reluctant to post, I'm embarrassed of my situation. But after reading through the advice that is given on other posts I feel it is worth giving it a try.

My wife is suffering from a mental illness, as a result our relationship is nearly non-existent. The past three years have been increasingly difficult, we do not share any emotional connection and have not had any sexual contact with each other for three years.

My patience is gone and I feel that if I do not share some form of intimacy with someone soon I will be doing significant harm to my ability to ever have that kind of a relationship again. My self esteem and confidence has been harmed and I don't know how to even go about this.

For reasons I'm not comfortable sharing, leaving is not an option at this time. I feel guilty and at times think my future actions may be selfish, but three years has been so long and I cant imagine going another year like this.

Any advice, especially from someone in a similar situation, would be greatly appreciated.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Is it a severe mental illness? Is she being helped for it? Does she have to be institutionalized or can you have a conversation with her? 

If you can't leave, there are only 2 options. Seems as though you have made up your mind, you don't need permission to do what you whatever. If she is able, have that conversation with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Some additional info would help.

How long have the two of you been together? How long married?

How old are the two of you?


Is her mental illness something like Alzheimer? I'm just trying to figure what you are dealing with.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

I know the post lacks a lot of details, been together 20+ yrs, married 18. In our mid-40s. The illness is bipolar, sought help, but not being treated as aggressively as I would suspect is needed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks for the additional info.

So I guess your wife has had BPD all along. What happened that it's now worse?


It sounds like you are considering cheating. Is that right? Have you met someone?

How soon do you think you could leave?

Do you have children? If so they young and still living at home?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Your needs have not been met. 3 years is a long time. 

Be honest. With your wife and explain to her that your are thinking of stepping outside the marriage due to not having your needs met. 

Forget about the guilt thing, you will Fock up and fall for the first woman that pays any attention to you because you are that vulnerable at this point in your life.

You are human and realize that being honest with your wife is the most humane thing to do in this case.

Are you afraid of her reaction? Will this hurt your relationship with your children if you have any?

I'm sorry dude, but you are between a rock and a hard place.

(((Hugs))))))


Bibi


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Thanks for the additional info.
> 
> So I guess your wife has had BPD all along. What happened that it's now worse?


Bipolar disorder is BP-NOS, while "BPD" is actually Borderline Personality Disorder. Either way, many of the pharms prescribed for the long-term treatment of psych disorders become ineffective due to the body creating drug tolerances. Meds often have to be changed. Some of these scripts have well known side-effects on things like weight and sex drive. 

Before the OP gives up entirely, it might be worth knowing her current script, it's known side-effects, and whether or not there are options. That's going to be a very open chat between you, her, and her attending metal heath provider. I'm not saying this is what's happening, but this side-effect scenario is worth considering if you haven't done so already.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

StrtOver2015 said:


> I am new to this site and have been reluctant to post, I'm embarrassed of my situation. But after reading through the advice that is given on other posts I feel it is worth giving it a try.
> 
> My wife is suffering from a mental illness, as a result our relationship is nearly non-existent. The past three years have been increasingly difficult, we do not share any emotional connection and have not had any sexual contact with each other for three years.
> 
> ...


I'm in a very similar situation but mine has been a lot longer. Here's how my mind wraps around this problem. I willingly and knowingly got married and promised to do and be certain things without knowing what the future held. She did the same. I'm a soldier and a cop. I go to work every day not knowing what condition I'll be in by the end of the day. I'd like to think that if something bad happened, my wife would still be my wife. She didn't ask for mental illness and she does what she can to treat it. 
Not sure why God put her and I together but I figure she needs my patience and calming influence and she brings things that God knows I need. He knows best. I didn't create the world. I only ride on it. You could ditch your wife and take up with someone else. On any given day you or your new partner could end up being far more disabled than your present wife. I just take it one day at a time and trust that God knows what He's doing.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrVanilla said:


> Bipolar disorder is BP-NOS, while "BPD" is actually Borderline Personality Disorder. Either way, many of the pharms prescribed for the long-term treatment of psych disorders become ineffective due to the body creating drug tolerances. Meds often have to be changed. Some of these scripts have well known side-effects on things like weight and sex drive.
> 
> Before the OP gives up entirely, it might be worth knowing her current script, it's known side-effects, and whether or not there are options. That's going to be a very open chat between you, her, and her attending metal heath provider. I'm not saying this is what's happening, but this side-effect scenario is worth considering if you haven't done so already.



Agree. Also need a lot more info about her current state of mind and why sex and intimacy with your wife is not happening. Bipolar doesn't preclude a person from being able to engage in sex (indeed it can prompt hyper sexual behavior particularly during a manic stage) nor does it preclude a person from being emotionally intimate. While it does complicate sex and intimacy, bipolar alone doesn't prevent either. 

Some questions...
1. How was your relationship 4 years ago or longer back? Did the bipolar cause the deterioration of the relationship or something else?
2. How is your relationship now? Does your wife show affection to anyone? Kids, pets, other family? Does she show affection toward you?
3. How has your sex life been at other points in your marriage?
4. Do you feel like you are no longer her husband/lover but are just her caregiver?
5. Do you still desire her? Find her attractive, want to be with her, think she is sexy?
6. Do you two have kids together?
7. Talk about her current treatment? Is she in therapy? Taking meds? Med compliant? Do you ever participate in her therapy?

You say divorce is off the table so I'll take you at your word. But do you understand that if divorce is off the table, then your goal is to fix your relationship, and that's what you want? 

I won't beat you up if you feel that an affair is something you're interested in, but I think you should understand that the affair will also cause serious complications in your life. Are you sure you want more complications?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

StrtOver2015 said:


> I am new to this site and have been reluctant to post, I'm embarrassed of my situation. But after reading through the advice that is given on other posts I feel it is worth giving it a try.
> 
> My wife is suffering from a mental illness, as a result our relationship is nearly non-existent. The past three years have been increasingly difficult, we do not share any emotional connection and have not had any sexual contact with each other for three years.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's more than Bipolar. Three years is a long time so it seems like she would have had manic episodes during that time? I don't understand the struggles of bipolar but I've read that it's common for people to be hyper sexual during their manic cycles. Do you think she will ever want to be intimate with you even if her medications are perfect? It just seems like the diagnosis of BPD is easy to blame everything for when maybe there's a lot more going on.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

StrtOver2015 said:


> I am new to this site and have been reluctant to post, I'm embarrassed of my situation. But after reading through the advice that is given on other posts I feel it is worth giving it a try.
> 
> My wife is suffering from a mental illness, as a result our relationship is nearly non-existent. The past three years have been increasingly difficult, we do not share any emotional connection and have not had any sexual contact with each other for three years.
> 
> ...



I feel for you. It's horrible to be in a sexless marriage and for 3+ years now? That's crazy.

Yes, your wifee has BiPolar Disorder. I worked with someone who was like that and I almost knocked her out a few times with her bulling, and emotional abuse and she didn't see it as a big deal......


You can

(01) buy yourself sex toys. Something like this.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008N5IMCW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

(02) you can divorce your wife but still be good friends and look out for her but have a new wife that wants sex often. Many ladies out there that love sex.


You aren't being selfish. You are a man and have given her 20+ years of your life. Having sex isn't rocket science. She should be making the effort to take care of your needs like you've been with her for 20+ years. Sex isn't a difficult concept.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StrtOver2015 said:


> ...* I'm embarrassed* of my situation.
> ...
> *I feel guilty* and at times think my future actions may be selfish, but three years has been so long and I cant imagine going another year like this....


There is a philosophy that you can't really help others unless you are able to help/love/accept yourself first. At the same time, life is messy and sometimes you just do the best you can. 

I'd put all my focus on finding ways to let go of being embarrassed and feeling guilty unless that relates to something you have not shared. If you are embarrassed and guilty just because you feel you have needs and want to be loved, there is nothing wrong with that, but there can be many things wrong with it depending on how you plan to go about achieving it. 

If you are unable to discuss with your wife, I would discuss with your own parents if they are available or confide in another close family member that cares about everyone involved.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Sad situation, man.

Your loneliness is totally understandable.

At the same time the mental illness is not her fault either (I'm sure you know this).

Can you have some kind of intervention with her? Tell her you're trying to hang on and want to help her through this, but you need her to explore different options? Say that this situation is not great for everyone, but can we work together to find ways to make it slightly better?

Maybe on the table is exploring different treatments for her and/or a hall pass for you (don't ask/ don't tell style).

There is some reasonable expectation that you should stand by her in her illness. But there should also be a reasonable expectation on her part that you don't endure unnecessary suffering due to her condition.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> Maybe it's more than Bipolar. Three years is a long time so it seems like she would have had manic episodes during that time? I don't understand the struggles of bipolar but I've read that it's common for people to be hyper sexual during their manic cycles. Do you think she will ever want to be intimate with you even if her medications are perfect? It just seems like the diagnosis of BPD is easy to blame everything for when maybe there's a lot more going on.


I don't get hung up on labels because everyone is different. Whatever a shrink calls it, she's obviously got some mental illness going on and it's interfering with what most folks would consider a normal adult intimate/sexual relationship. With my wife, I've been told Depression, Bipolar, PTSD, everything but the heartbreak of psoriasis. Doesn't matter what it's called this week. His wife is ill and he can either paint something like a happy face on it and suck it up, he can ditch her, or he can choose to be miserable in place. Maybe he's just got to wrap his head around the fact that his marriage might not ever look even remotely like the one he had imagined. Doesn't mean it can't be good and it doesn't mean the next one would be any better.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I don't get hung up on labels because everyone is different. Whatever a shrink calls it, she's obviously got some mental illness going on and it's interfering with what most folks would consider a normal adult intimate/sexual relationship. With my wife, I've been told Depression, Bipolar, PTSD, everything but the heartbreak of psoriasis. Doesn't matter what it's called this week. His wife is ill and he can either paint something like a happy face on it and suck it up, he can ditch her, or he can choose to be miserable in place. Maybe he's just got to wrap his head around the fact that his marriage might not ever look even remotely like the one he had imagined. Doesn't mean it can't be good and it doesn't mean the next one would be any better.


Your input might be more relevant than mine since your situation is similar but here's food for thought. You mentioned his options of 1: happy face, 2: ditch her, and 3: be miserable. These are 3 options that presume mental illness is the fault of all of their issues. I'm suggesting that OP should also consider that his role; his actions might be feeding the dynamic and therefore he may have ability to change the dynamic. But I'm a fixer by nature so always looking for solutions. He should also consider that he's using a label to crutch his wife's behavior to a degree.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> Your input might be more relevant than mine since your situation is similar but here's food for thought. You mentioned his options of 1: happy face, 2: ditch her, and 3: be miserable. These are 3 options that presume mental illness is the fault of all of their issues. I'm suggesting that OP should also consider that his role; his actions might be feeding the dynamic and therefore he may have ability to change the dynamic. But I'm a fixer by nature so always looking for solutions. He should also consider that he's using a label to crutch his wife's behavior to a degree.


If it is within his power to cure mental illness he needs to hang out his shingle and start raking in huge bank. He can't change her brain chemistry and he can't go back to her early childhood and fix whatever went wrong with her development. He might learn to avoid some triggers so he might have more relatively peaceful days but he can't cure mental illness any more than he can give sight to the blind.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

First, I just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback. Seeing the time and attention that you have all paid to my post means a tremendous amount to me. I'm new to all this so not sure the most effective way to provide additional information that might help. I'll provide some general information here that might address some of the general questions that came up, and I'll try to respond to the individual posts over the next few days.

The bipolar diagnosis is what she was told by her psychiatrist, I had thought it might be more related to some sort of a paranoid personality disorder because that is how it had manifested itself. We have had numerous discussions about seeking marriage counseling or her speaking to a therapist. She is not willing, I believe the paranoia is a big issue, not being able to open up and trust anyone.

Part of my guilt is associated with my feelings of whether or not there was something I could have or should have done years ago when I saw some signs. I sure that how I acted and reacted has contributed to where we are today, but I have tried so many different approaches. I've spoken to several doctors about what to do and inevitably these have not produced any significant changes.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> Your needs have not been met. 3 years is a long time.
> 
> Be honest. With your wife and explain to her that your are thinking of stepping outside the marriage due to not having your needs met.
> 
> ...


Bibi,

We have had numerous discussions so I'm not as concerned with her reaction, on the other hand I don't feel like I really know her anymore so maybe I am a little concerned. How this will effect our children is my biggest concern.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> I'm in a very similar situation but mine has been a lot longer. Here's how my mind wraps around this problem. I willingly and knowingly got married and promised to do and be certain things without knowing what the future held. She did the same. I'm a soldier and a cop. I go to work every day not knowing what condition I'll be in by the end of the day. I'd like to think that if something bad happened, my wife would still be my wife. She didn't ask for mental illness and she does what she can to treat it.
> Not sure why God put her and I together but I figure she needs my patience and calming influence and she brings things that God knows I need. He knows best. I didn't create the world. I only ride on it. You could ditch your wife and take up with someone else. On any given day you or your new partner could end up being far more disabled than your present wife. I just take it one day at a time and trust that God knows what He's doing.


unbelievable, 

Thank you for opening up and sharing your situation. Maybe I'm looking for some additional patience and strength, knowing there are others in similar situations helps.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You are your own warden and have chosen this as your lot in life. It's time for you to accept it and find happiness independent of love or connection. Maybe get a puppy. Just never forget that it's your choice to stay and therefore on you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

StrtOver2015 said:


> Bibi,
> 
> We have had numerous discussions so I'm not as concerned with her reaction, on the other hand I don't feel like I really know her anymore so maybe I am a little concerned. How this will effect our children is my biggest concern.


I see. How old are your children? Is your wife willing to allow you to seek a friend with benefits if she is unable to satisfy your needs? 

You mentioned that leaving was not an option, and this is fine if you are both in agreement. 

With this said, it's unfair to you and quite frankly almost impossible for you to live a sexless life for much longer. You have tried for 3 long years to accept your faith and believe me that is admirable, but your 
mind and body scream for love and attention in the form of intimacy and sexual satisfaction.

I'm sure that in this day and age, you won't have a problem finding a friend that will give you this; the added problem you may have is that you may get very attached or seriously in love with the friend. 

Are you ready to take the plunge?

Best of luck and may you find what you need to keep what you have and get your needs met too.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

StrtOver2015 said:


> The bipolar diagnosis is what she was told by her psychiatrist,


Perhaps she does have bipolar-1, StrtOver. Yet, in the 50-minute meetings a psychiatrist sees a client, it can very difficult for them to distinguish bipolar-1 from BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Moreover, even if they do correctly identify the BPD, they generally will not tell the client -- much less tell her H or her insurance company. Instead, they typically report only the co-occurring "clinical disorders" such as bipolar, depression, anxiety, and OCD. Unlike BPD, those disorders are covered by insurance. 

The BPD information is routinely withheld from high-functioning BPDers for their own protection, as I explain at Loath to Diagnose. This is why, when you are suspecting BPD plays a role, it is important to see YOUR OWN psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you are dealing with. That is, see a psych who has not treated or seen your W. 

This way the psych is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers. Remember, your W's psychiatrist is not your friend. He is ethically bound to protect her. Hence, relying on him for candid advice during your marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for candid advice during the divorce.



> I had thought it might be more related to some sort of a paranoid personality disorder because that is how it had manifested itself.... I believe the paranoia is a big issue, not being able to open up and trust anyone.


Granted, paranoia is one of the warning signs for bipolar-1 but, with that disorder, the paranoia typically occurs during a strong manic phase. Consequently, if you are seeing paranoia on a continual basis, you are seeing behavior that is more consistent with BPD traits. Paranoia (and inability to trust) is one of the nine defining traits used in diagnosing BPD. 

I describe the major differences I've seen between the behaviors of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. If most of those BPD symptoms sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my post at 18 BPD Warning Signs and at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. 

Finally, I note that having bipolar disorder DOES NOT RULE OUT also having BPD. If your W really does have bipolar disorder, there is a good chance she also has BPD. Specifically, if she has bipolar-1 (i.e., with periods of strong mania in addition to periods of strong depression) the chance of her also having BPD is about a third. If she has bipolar-2, (i.e., strong depression but very mild mania), the chance of also having BPD is about a fourth. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. Take care, StrtOver.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Leaving is always an option - it's just one that you say at this time you are unwilling to do for some reason. If you have kids you can take them with you. Or stay and accept that this is your life and will be until you do something to change it.

Bi-polar people often are non-compliant with meds and treatment. Some never are/do. It took my Ex almost 20 years to start to accept treatment after about 50 mental hospital/psych ward stays almost all of which were forced. I tried for over 5 years to help finally realizing there really wasn't anything I could or would be able to do - so I took the kids and left. Best decision I've made in my life.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

Man, that's a tough situation. I went about 2 1/2 years with no sexual contact, so I get that the lack of touch can really get to you. Though it wasn't Bipolar Disorder, it was a combination of severe anxiety and my wife's difficulty managing the wife/mother roles. You mentioned that you don't want to leave, but are you willing to rock the boat a little? I'm not saying be an a-hole, but perhaps shift the status quo? Even people with mental health concerns need to be held accountable if they're going to see progress in their own struggles.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Perhaps the OP could share a few examples or patterns of behavior. I have a couple friends with bipolar and they're awesome. Meds seem to work for them. My wife has diagnosed but untreated BPD and it's a whole different ball game.

A psychologist may not diagnose accurately at first but if you're living with them 24/7 you can read up and learn.

Is she willing to go back for treatment ??


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

Uptown said:


> Perhaps she does have bipolar-1, StrtOver. Yet, in the 50-minute meetings a psychiatrist sees a client, it can very difficult for them to distinguish bipolar-1 from BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Moreover, even if they do correctly identify the BPD, they generally will not tell the client -- much less tell her H or her insurance company. Instead, they typically report only the co-occurring "clinical disorders" such as bipolar, depression, anxiety, and OCD. Unlike BPD, those disorders are covered by insurance.
> 
> The BPD information is routinely withheld from high-functioning BPDers for their own protection, as I explain at Loath to Diagnose. This is why, when you are suspecting BPD plays a role, it is important to see YOUR OWN psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you are dealing with. That is, see a psych who has not treated or seen your W.
> 
> ...


Uptown,

Thank you so much for the information, I'm working my way through it and just knowing that there are others going through the same thing is giving me comfort.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> With this said, it's unfair to you and quite frankly almost impossible for you to live a sexless life for much longer. You have tried for 3 long years to accept your faith and believe me that is admirable, but your mind and body scream for love and attention in the form of intimacy and sexual satisfaction.


Bibi,

I could not have put it any better than what you stated, having someone acknowledge this means a lot.


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## StrtOver2015 (Sep 11, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> There is some reasonable expectation that you should stand by her in her illness. But there should also be a reasonable expectation on her part that you don't endure unnecessary suffering due to her condition.


Anon,

Very well put, this is my dilemma.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

StrtOver2015 said:


> Bibi,
> 
> I could not have put it any better than what you stated, having someone acknowledge this means a lot.


It's only the truth and human nature to want love and affection. We all have basic needs in order to be happy. IMO, these two are way up there in the basic needs list. 

Keep posting, reading and learning hon,

Bibi


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