# What constitutes sexual abuse in marriage?



## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

I am currently separated from my husband and most likely will be divorced soon, but something has been on my mind for a long time and replying to a thread here made me think about it. I really need to tell my story and see if anyone can relate. I don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it.

I've lived with my husband for about five years, been legally married for less than one year. Ever since we first started having sex, there's been a lot of anxiety and pressure around it. It started almost immediately as he would flip out on me if I didn't want sex for whatever reason. I was very sexual up to this point, but I began to severely lose my sex drive. He'd start horrible fights, often refusing to admit the sex was why, but it was always implied. He used to have fake episodes of faking passing out, threatening suicide, threatening me, etc. It would also often hurt to have sex, probably because the fights made me so anxious. I'd tell him and he wouldn't care. If I pushed him off I would endure the fights and fake episodes for hours. So I often had sex when I did not want it at all. I finally left about three years ago. 

I stupidly came back, thinking he was changing. The lies and faking illness slowly stopped, as I called them for the bs they were. I also slowly started refusing to do it if it hurt, but I also slowly started getting drunk so I would enjoy it. I'd try to enjoy it normally, and sometimes I would, but I'd increasingly get horrible anxiety when he'd try to initiate it if I was sober. I'm actually extremely explorative in bed, so it's not like I didn't want to do it. But the anxiety would cripple me and he'd make me feel so horrible and guilty instead of stopping the behavior that caused it. 

He also began the verbal abuse with name calling at this point. It got better during our engagement and then got worse after getting married. I'd be exhausted and not want sex and he'd start calling me names, tell me to leave, and refusing to let me sleep when I needed to go to school in the morning. A few months ago I went away for a month for a grad school related thing, and it was amazing to not have to go to bed and be terrified he might try to initiate sex and I not be able to get past the anxiety and then him flip out. When I came back, I decided to put my foot down and tell him that we were not having sex if he was going to scream at me when I didn't want it. The idea of doing it just to avoid a fight sickened me and not having that threat for a month made me realize it would never be healthy if I didn't force him to change. I told him I enjoy sex but I'm done with there being anxiety around it. I needed to feel safe to say no and then I wouldn't have a panic attack every time he tried to initiate it. Because if I got past the anxiety, I really enjoyed it. I'd been pushing for counseling for a long time, and so I said that's how we could work on it. 

He decided this meant I was refusing to have sex ever (I really just wanted him to agree it was a problem and then i figured I could start getting past the anxiety in a few weeks once I saw a few instances of him handling me not wanting it maturely.) of course that didn't happen, and there were plenty of other things he'd verbally abuse me for besides sex, and it ended in a horrible fight where he punched something (which was rare but had happened before) and got in my face and I thought for sure he'd hit me. So I left. The fights have happened multiple times since and I finally decided I'm leaving for good. Although I'm struggling to stick to that.

So I know none of this is normal, and it's wrong. I said so myself on my reply to the thread on this forum. Yet I feel so stupid saying he was sexually abusive. Somehow emotional and verbal abuse I'm ok with saying, but I feel so much guilt for the sexual problems. Every time I hear guys complaining of low sex drive with their wives, I think that must be me. I'm just a horrible partner. Yet I had a decent sex drive before him! I also have never heard of anyone else going through this over such a long time, and the little bit I've mentioned doesn't seem to be acknowledged, and it makes me wonder if I'm crazy and dramatizing it. That's sure how he'd like me to think. 

So had anyone else gone through this? Known someone who has? Would you think this was sexually abusive? And I'm also trying to understand why I was so stupid to stay in such an abusive relationship in general, as there was plenty besides this. I grew up very isolated but not at all treated like he treats me. If it really is so bad, why did I stay so long? And why does everyone else like him and not see it? And why am I struggling to stay gone from him even though I know I'm happier not living in fear? I know that's a lot of questions, but I'm just very confused and have no one to confide in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you describe is not "normal". His actions are not normal. And your actions of staying are not normal.

You need to get into counseling and find out why you put up with this. Apparently you do not have strong boundaries on how you allow yourself to be treated. We teach others how to treat us.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't know why you need to label something so definitively. Your whole relationship is dysfunctional from the sounds of it, and as EleGirl says, you really really need to figure out why you are willing to tolerate it. And to keep it from happening in the future. Many people replicate their same problems in their next relationship because they pick the same flaws in a partner.

As far as sexually abusive... To me, that would be reserved for something that you could take to the police and press charges for. And I don't see that in your story. But at the same time, if my daughter was sharing this with me and it was just about the sexual issues, I'd do everything I could to get her out of the relationship.

Don't know if that helped. You really really do deserve better than this, and he's not likely to change. Just get out. And stay out, this time. Find a counsellor who helps abused women.

Oh, and everyone else likes him because they don't see that side of him. I'm pretty sure if you showed them a recording of his "behind closed doors" treatment of you, their opinions would change quickly. A lot of a users are like that... One face for everyone else, one face for you.

C


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh no I didn't mean legally. I just meant as far as it being a problem or not. I know logically it is, but for some reason it's something that's made me feel very guilty.


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## ladywillow (Oct 31, 2013)

Hey OP,

One thing I found interesting is you had a decent sex drive before him and not so much with him. And you're asking why that is? It's because you're terrified of sleeping with him, so your sex drive is naturally lower. It is amazing what stress can do to the mind, body, and spirit. But, I agree with the other responders. You need to leave and get some counseling started for yourself. Leave the marriage, because he's not going to change and it might escalate. I would truly _hate_ to hear that you ended up being physically hurt. 

Good luck!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I wouldn't define it as sexual abuse, but emotionally abusive and manipulative about sex.

You really need to get away from this man and get into therapy yourself. You need to learn boundaries and develop a strong sense of yourself so you will be less tied into the manipulations of others.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

"It would also often hurt to have sex, probably because the fights made me so anxious. I'd tell him and he wouldn't care. If I pushed him off I would endure the fights and fake episodes for hours. So I often had sex when I did not want it at all." 

I think everything was abusive including the sex. I also think you, for your healing need to see the whole picture. I am glad you left him and it seems like you won't allow yourself to be in such a horrible relationship again. Good for you, you should be very proud of yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Thank you for the responses. I am not sure why I am so logical with everything in my life but that has gone out the window in this relationship. I didn't have serious relationships before him, and I was pretty isolated growing up, so I think it's been hard for me to know where to draw boundaries and before I know it they've been pushed way beyond what I know is ok but by that point I'm already stuck in the situation. Part of my staying has been an issue of he got me financially dependent on him a while ago and that's when the verbal abuse escalated and I was pretty trapped. Now I get a stipend with school so don't have to worry about that. But anyway I've decided I'm not doing this anymore and am leaving for good. I've given him so many chances to change and he's chosen not to. I'm going to be confident in myself and not let anyone else control me.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I don't know why it matters whether you categorize this as abuse or not. It is not healthy and you don't like it and that should be enough. Your husband obviously has problems, but I also would be curious to hear his side of the story. It sounds like this has been an escalating cycle-- your rejecting him and his getting angry which leads to further rejection and escalating anger. Obviously, his responses are inappropriate. On the other hand, I can tell you first hand that repeated rejection from one's spouse over time really can do a lot of damage to your feelings of self worth and outlook on the world. I would guess that some of your problems can be rightly placed at your husband's feet as issues he needs to work out for himself before he can be in any healthy relationship, but some are likely a dynamic that is particular to your relationship. In any case, sounds like a terrible situation to be in.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Please look into counselling as well. But I'm glad you've decided to get out of that situation.

C


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> I don't know why it matters whether you categorize this as abuse or not. It is not healthy and you don't like it and that should be enough. Your husband obviously has problems, but I also would be curious to hear his side of the story. It sounds like this has been an escalating cycle-- your rejecting him and his getting angry which leads to further rejection and escalating anger. Obviously, his responses are inappropriate. On the other hand, I can tell you first hand that repeated rejection from one's spouse over time really can do a lot of damage to your feelings of self worth and outlook on the world. I would guess that some of your problems can be rightly placed at your husband's feet as issues he needs to work out for himself before he can be in any healthy relationship, but some are likely a dynamic that is particular to your relationship. In any case, sounds like a terrible situation to be in.


This happened the first time I ever said no. Like a couple weeks after we began having sex. And I said no only because he was freaking out on me, doing what I learned later were faked passing out episodes because he was upset about some drama with his friends. Not exactly a way to turn a girl on. He then continued to do this any time I was tired, etc. It also didn't help that I had to go on birth control because he refused to wear condoms, so my drive was probably a little lower than his (but it didn't come back when I stopped taking bc until I left recently, now I feel libido quite a bit) 

I didn't start declining him consistently until several years after we first began having sex, that's why I'd drink to be able to have sex, and even when I did start really declining recently I always told him I wanted sex but he created so much anxiety that we had to work on that for me to even be able to get wet enough to have it without it hurting. (I have no problem with that if I'm not anxious.) and even then I'd still do everything I could to try and do it, all the while begging him to go to counseling which he would promise to do and then refuse to actually do. I didn't put my foot down about it until two months ago when I finally realized how out of control it had gotten. And I still was quite willing to work on it if he made me feel safe. 

I've literally been gone off on for this because I had a migraine and wouldn't have sex. I really wish people wouldn't assume I decline him just because I like rejecting him or I hate sex or whatever. I have done so much to try and make myself do it and the sex to be healthy despite being physically unresponsive due to the fear and anxiety. It's obviously not getting better and is why I'm gone for good this time.

I know it's not right to be treated this way, but I just don't understand how I have never heard of someone else going through this. He has a way of turning every single thing back on me and making me feel blamed and inadequate for when I don't fulfill his every whim while simultaneously having zero care about my rights as a person.


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> I'm actually going to disagree with the other posters here. I absolutely DO think this was sexual abuse. Not feeling able to say no for fear of reprisals is just as abusive as saying it and it not being respected. It doesn't have to be the fear of physical attack, verbal attack or other negative consequences can be just as bad. Just because something is insufficient to press charges does not change the nature of the incident. If anyone other than your husband had done this it would have been viewed as rape/sexual assault. It does not change just because you are married.
> 
> I am glad you getting out. you offered the opportunity to rebuild and mend this through counselling together and he refused and was angry about it. He sounds like a very controlling and abusive man. Counselling on your own would be helpful to you and I think your focus has to shift to you and what you need to heal and identify what you can do to prevent yourself finding yourself in a similar relationship next time. You do need someone in real life to help you work through this. Speak to your doctor and get IC.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. It helps to be understood. 

Well the emotional abuse started within 6 months. He wasn't calling me names or screaming but would verbally threaten my safety indirectly (via what I leaned later were nonexistent friends) and make up horrible lies and fake illness to manipulate. The sex stuff started within six months as well. (That's when we started having sex.) He also once directly threatened me physically. 

He never physically forced me to have sex but wouldn't stop doing it when I said it hurt. I directly told him to stop once but I don't know if he heard me. I didn't fight back because of how he'd react. One time he was fingering me (I hope that's not too graphic for this forum, mods feel free to tell me to edit if necessary) and I kept telling him it hurt and to stop, and he would stop and then do it again. It literally happened like ten times before I freaked out and jumped out of the bed. He would just randomly do that to me without even working up to it when I'd tell him it was painful. (Because duh women need to be lubricated.) I finally left and then came back within a few months. This was about two years into the relationship. I thought I was just crazy because no one seemed to believe me or think he could be dangerous. They'd think it was funny that he threatened me. Like they thought it was wrong but thought I was stupid for taking him seriously. He comes across as very unintimidating to most people. 

He stopped the lying and we were ok for a while. If it hurt I'd physically force him to stop and he didn't physically force me back. It stopped hurting over time as my anxiety lessened a little, and I thought he was changing and I was happy to forgive someone who could change them self like that. Then he got me to quit my job to focus on school and just before that is when he became very verbally abusive. We were not married for any of these points but were living together. When we got engaged it got better for a while as I said I'd call it off if it continued. He started the verbal abuse up again within three weeks of being married, because I wasn't having sex enough. Even though we had a great short honeymoon that involved a ton of sex, and I then had to leave the state multiple times for grad school interviews! I literally wasn't present to have sex! Anyway, its now been 9 months since we were legally married, 5 1/2 years in a relationship. So sorry, hope that makes more sense with the timeline!

Yeah I have had IC before but even they seemed perplexed when I explained what he was like. I think I may just be bad at verbalizing it. I can't afford IC now, but I am planning to read up more and work on building boundaries and confidence. I think my problem is that 

1. I was very isolated as a kid due to religion, and I never learned what good boundaries look like. The only people I know who have had even remotely similar relationships are girls that grew up with me 

2. I tend to be very logical, which works for everything but relationships especially when it's someone who manipulates. I try to rationalize their behavior and that ends up blinding me. It's happened with manipulative and controlling platonic friends too. 

And 3. He is my only serious relationship. I think a lack of experience in knowing what was normal was part of the issue. 

So I think if I can just really focus on being less trusting and establishing firm boundaries, I should be ok. But yes how you describe the manipulation is very spot on.





Anon1111 said:


> I don't know why it matters whether you categorize this as abuse or not. It is not healthy and you don't like it and that should be enough. Your husband obviously has problems, but I also would be curious to hear his side of the story. It sounds like this has been an escalating cycle-- your rejecting him and his getting angry which leads to further rejection and escalating anger. Obviously, his responses are inappropriate. On the other hand, I can tell you first hand that repeated rejection from one's spouse over time really can do a lot of damage to your feelings of self worth and outlook on the world. I would guess that some of your problems can be rightly placed at your husband's feet as issues he needs to work out for himself before he can be in any healthy relationship, but some are likely a dynamic that is particular to your relationship. In any case, sounds like a terrible situation to be in.


This happened the first time I ever said no. Like a couple weeks after we began having sex. And I said no only because he was freaking out on me, doing what I learned later were faked passing out episodes because he was upset about some drama with his friends. Not exactly a way to turn a girl on. He then continued to do this any time I was tired, etc. It also didn't help that I had to go on birth control because he refused to wear condoms, so my drive was probably slightly lower than his (but it didn't come back when I stopped taking bc until I left recently, now I feel libido quite a bit, so it wasn't just the bc). I always told him I was happy to stop bc and see if my libido would improve if he'd wear condoms but he refused. It wouldn't have helped much anyway looking back. It was purely anxiety.

I didn't start declining him consistently until several years after we first began having sex, that's why I'd drink to be able to have sex, and even when I did start really declining recently I always told him I wanted sex but he created so much anxiety that we had to work on that for me to even be able to get wet enough to have it without it hurting. (I have no problem with that if I'm not anxious.) and even then I'd still do everything I could to try and do it, all the while begging him to go to counseling which he would promise to do and then refuse to actually do. We actually had a very explorative sex life when I was able to get into it. I didn't really put my foot down about it until two months ago when I finally realized how out of control it had gotten. And I still was quite willing to work on it if he made me feel safe. Before that it was an issue of being unable and begging him to do things to help me feel less anxious (or rather not do). I didn't refuse him due to his behavior for literally five years. And all he'd have had to do is not go off on me for a few weeks and I probably would have been ok. Part of my problem in staying with him is I forgive and forget way too easy. I am not sure why; it's very hard for me to stay mad at someone and thus hard to follow through on boundaries.

I've literally been gone off on for this because I had a migraine and wouldn't have sex. I really wish people wouldn't assume I decline him just because I like rejecting him or I hate sex or whatever. I have done so much to try and make myself do it and the sex to be healthy despite being physically unresponsive due to the fear and anxiety. It's obviously not getting better and is why I'm gone for good this time. It just makes me feel so bad about myself when I feel like I was doing something wrong. He accused me of "spiting" him even though two months ago I laid what I need to see down very well. Yet it gets in my head and makes me worry I was. So I may sound defensive, but it's because I have to fight these thoughts constantly, and hearing someone else not get it makes it worse.

I know it's not right to be treated this way, but I just don't understand how I have never heard of someone else going through this. I don't really care about the label as much as someone validating that I'm not crazy to be affected by it. It doesn't matter legally because I'd never press charges even if it was illegal. But he has a way of turning every single thing back on me and making me feel blamed and inadequate for when I don't fulfill his every whim while simultaneously having zero care about my rights as a person. And it's bad enough it happened but far worse when I feel it's my fault.


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## Feel-Free (Sep 22, 2013)

beautiful_seclusion said:


> I know it's not right to be treated this way, but I just don't understand how I have never heard of someone else going through this. He has a way of turning every single thing back on me and making me feel blamed and inadequate for when I don't fulfill his every whim while simultaneously having zero care about my rights as a person.


I hear your frustration here, and probably some sadness and definitely some anger too. Being in a relationship with someone who you cannot effectively communicate with in a mutually likeable and respectful way is indeed very very tough and frustrating. 

I am glad that you are moving forward and are obviously looking at what is and what is no longer acceptable for you, regarding your relationships with men. As you know, being able to communicate effectively is extremely important, and developing better ways to communicate TOGETHER over time is crucial to a long-lasting relationship. 

Much respect and blessings around your future with this man and with any other men you find yourself engaging with!


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Feel-Free said:


> I hear your frustration here, and probably some sadness and definitely some anger too. Being in a relationship with someone who you cannot effectively communicate with in a mutually likeable and respectful way is indeed very very tough and frustrating.
> 
> I am glad that you are moving forward and are obviously looking at what is and what is no longer acceptable for you, regarding your relationships with men. As you know, being able to communicate effectively is extremely important, and developing better ways to communicate TOGETHER over time is crucial to a long-lasting relationship.
> 
> Much respect and blessings around your future with this man and with any other men you find yourself engaging with!


Thank you. Yes I do feel very frustrated and sad. I've felt very unheard and I just want to be happy. But I'm actually fairly happy now that I'm away from him. I'm not planning to be in a relationship for a very long time (the thought makes me sick right now). I want to have control over my life. Not someone else controlling whether I feel afraid or not depending on what they want. 

I know I really need to be very cautious and suspicious about men, as he's not the first person to cross serious boundaries with me. He's just the only one I've had a serious relationship with and strong connection to. This has happened with platonic female friends, as well as not serious boyfriends/male friends. I am very cautious about my close female friends now; I need to learn this for sexual relationships too. I somehow have not learned normal ways of enforcing boundaries and am terrified to have a relationship until I do. Part of the problem is back when I was religious (I'm not now), I'd meet these guys at church. My stbx was no different, although he walked away from religion as well. So my guard was way down I think because they were at "church". I wouldn't suspect that they were really prone to violence, manipulative, and entitled because I was raised to feel safe at church. So that should be less of a problem going forward.

It's really helped to write it all out. Seeing it written out makes me realize how insane it was to put up with. So sorry for all the essays! But talking about it really is putting it all into perspective.


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## Feel-Free (Sep 22, 2013)

beautiful_seclusion said:


> It's really helped to write it all out. Seeing it written out makes me realize how insane it was to put up with. So sorry for all the essays! But talking about it really is putting it all into perspective.


Yes, it's amazing how writing/speaking about one's feeling truths can help illuminate new perspectives and options! Sometimes this act of revealing is all it takes to move forward and past the problem. I applaud you in your willingness to not only honestly look hard at your situation, but also in making clearer boundary decisions for yourself moving forward.

"As I shift my own dynamics, the company I keep will also adhere to these new dynamics that I've shifted into." ~ Feel-Free

Remember that we are always bumping into "mirrors" of where we're at that are being presented to us by the people around us. As you grow and change, so do all the circumstances surrounding you. The trick is to not get dragged backwards into old patterns and beliefs. This is a very challenging 'trick,' but with consistent effort on your part, can be achieved. Continued success and awareness to YOU!


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## Feel-Free (Sep 22, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> She has the right to say no even if she is married and being unable to say no due to fear of reprisal is just as bad as saying it and being ignored (I now know she actually has said it and it has been ignored too). I will not speak for the OP, but I would not be surprised if her anger/feeling the need to be defensive is due to the disregard for her pain and confusion. I know I switched from feeling her pain to feeling anger at the dismissal of her pain in an instant.
> 
> Thank you for being positive about her moving on from this abusive relationship.


Thanks MissFroggie, I appreciate the acknowledgment! And I totally get your transition from feeling the OP's pain to feeling your own anger around the dismissal of her pain that you speak of. One of the most profound things that I have learned of late is the validity and reality of whatever feelings are in play for me and for my wife. The dance between what we feel and how we judge both our feelings and the events in our lives is astounding and quite powerful.

To really and deeply acknowledge my own feelings and then open the feeling-space to allow my wife's feelings and then the feelings of friends and family and work associates, is an incredible thing that we can all do. 

I choose to be compassionate and trusting here online first, and potentially skeptical and judgmental second. But one thing is clear to me: the OP's here are here because they sincerely want or need help in determining what's happened and what they WANT to do about it. And I respect their bravery for showing up here and potentially getting dismissed or embraced depending on the judgments and attitudes of the responders.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Froggie, thank you.



> He never physically forced me to have sex but wouldn't stop doing it when I said it hurt.


He *did* force you to have sex. he did not stop when you said "Stop, this is hurting." That is rape.

Tantruming, name-calling and acting violent when he doesn't get his way sexually is coercion. So is badgering you into sexual positions and situations you've stated you will not do.

Please stay gone from him. My own cycle was that I left four times before staying gone. he had sex without a condom during one of those reconciliations (against my wishes), and I now raise the resulting child (he threatened violence if I were to terminate). The child is so disabled he will never live on his own. Daily I see both the reminder of what he did, and the strength that I have in never returning once I left for good.

Your H is a predator. Keep opening your eyes and building a support network. You're on the right track.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

beautiful_seclusion said:


> I am currently separated from my husband and most likely will be divorced soon, but something has been on my mind for a long time and replying to a thread here made me think about it. I really need to tell my story and see if anyone can relate. I don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it.
> 
> I've lived with my husband for about five years, been legally married for less than one year. Ever since we first started having sex, there's been a lot of anxiety and pressure around it. It started almost immediately as he would flip out on me if I didn't want sex for whatever reason. I was very sexual up to this point, but I began to severely lose my sex drive. He'd start horrible fights, often refusing to admit the sex was why, but it was always implied. He used to have fake episodes of faking passing out, threatening suicide, threatening me, etc. It would also often hurt to have sex, probably because the fights made me so anxious. I'd tell him and he wouldn't care. If I pushed him off I would endure the fights and fake episodes for hours. So I often had sex when I did not want it at all. I finally left about three years ago.
> 
> ...



Sounds similar to my wife and I, occasionally fighting about little things, due to the lack of sex.

But you had / have a high sex drive, right? Can't be you.

This is probably not you, but for most guys, who are HD, when they initiate sex with their gf / wives, and usually get shot down, we get resentful and angry. Women should find their men hot and sexy and want to have sex with them, otherwise, why be with them? Unless someone is sick, medical conditions, many kids, there are no excuses.

If you thought he was going to hit you? RUN. He has some issues and not you!!! Find another man who isn't like this guy. You deserve much better and the sooner the better.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Forbidding sleep, berating, name-calling, rape and coercion are not little things. Just want to point that out, and I see you're not meaning to minimize her situation. And yes, you're right...RUN.

OP, what can we do to help you stay gone? Do you need help with creating a game plan, or with prioritizing, or with finding a place for your anger? Are you in IC now?


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Indeed, and don't forget the good that is a domestic violence center. Most, if not all, offer counseling for people who haven't had to use their shelters.


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the very helpful responses. I've read the links and they did help me realize some reasons this happened both from my side of not having boundaries and his side of needing control.

I went today and got a lot more of my stuff from his place. Strangely, he was very calm and talking about the divorce process very reasonably. I think he's realized it's over and for some reason that made me ok with it being over. I think he has some very serious issues that are never going to be resolved with me there, and it helped to think about it in terms of he may be capable of being a nice person, but it obviously cannot happen when we are together. Seeing that he seemed more calm now that a decision has been made strangely helped me see that being with him would just create all that chaos again. I know that sounds very strange, and I'm not really sure why it had that effect on me. But I don't feel like I want to go back now. Let's hope it stays that way as does him being reasonable about the whole divorce process. 

Unfortunately I can't take my dog with me, so I'm hoping he stays reasonable so I can still see the dog. The thing is there are times he can be nice and caring. Just not when anything he wants is threatened. It's like a total switch from being super sweet to horribly abusive and scary, which confused me and led to me coming back so many times, but I'm starting to get it now. I used to feel like I must be doing something to cause it since he could be so nice (which I do think was often genuine), but I realize now that he is nice but only until he stops getting everything he wants because he is so entitled (which really is from the way he was raised; I can't stand his parents for a reason) And I think he maybe has the capability to change, but not with me. I don't think he has any clue how to put his needs on an equal level with a close partner, and there's no way that will change with me when there's so much history. And obviously I never got over the abuse from 3+ years ago that went away (but was replaced by the other stuff), so there's no way I could not resent him even if he did change. It really helps to think about it as nice and abusive actions can exist in the same person, not just one or the other. It's been hard for me to imagine, and that's why I'd go back, because id never be both nice and horrible and figured I must just be causing it since I knew he wasn't all bad. But thinking about the reasons someone else could be that way and that no matter what I do that horrible part won't go away, makes it better for some reason. Far better and more fitting with what I've experienced than the "he's an evil monster" or "you're crazy" options. Because neither are true, but the fact that he can be both great and horrible is true. And I am not living with that anymore.

So I'm rambling, but I did just realize that maybe I should check out IC at my school. They may not be able to take me for an extended period, but they may be able to refer me to a shelter that has resources. I know there is some sort of a relationship violence center at school too; I was looking at it but never contacted them back two months ago when he scared me the worst and I was figuring out how to leave. I didn't think about doing that for finding counseling.

So right now I feel strong in not going back. I've got to prepare for the possibility he may change his mind and try to get me back; I don't know if that will happen but if it did, it would make it harder to stay away. It would help if I had some sort of support from friends, but since I don't have that, I will come here instead. We can't do the divorce officially until the beginning of the year, as it would really mess up some complicated tax issues. So it will help when that's finalized but that process can't begin for a few months. If he stays reasonable, we won't need attorneys so that will speed it up. I don't want hardly anything anyway and we each have our own places.

I'm also really scared of relationships going forward. Obviously I do not want anything for a long time, but I have realized I have very little clue about what is normal. I also feel like I must be less that I was willing to put up with this. I somehow have to build up my self esteem. I am pretty confident in a lot of things, but not so much with relationships, and I tend to get a lot of anxiety about even platonic relationships. I'm not sure how to work on that.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

In IC you will learn the skills of building yourself up, reading people, developing trust and how to cope with the anxiety you carry.

Looks like you've had a productive day! 

Any chance on contacting a rescue agency to see if they can re-home your dog to a foster family while you get on your feet again?


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

I honestly can't take my dog and be fair to him even if I had a place to keep him. With grad school I am often gone from morning to night, and my stbx does take care of him. My parents, who live in another state, are also willing to take him if my stbx ever changes his mind. But that's not ideal for them, so as long as he stays reasonable, I think unfortunately it is the best option. He really is a reasonable person with people he's not in a relationship with/living with. As long as he doesn't get it in his head that he wants me back, I think everything will be fairly amicable. It really is an issue of his personality just does a complete 180 when his wants are threatened. If I don't have anything he wants, he will be totally fine with me. It's also helped that the separation was a slower process; I think it's given him time to see us as apart, and I think he's more likely to try to find someone else than try to get me back at this point.


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks. I have prepared myself to either take the dog to my parents or not see the dog if he gets out of control. I can definitely see that this nice behavior could change without notice, so I am trying to be careful. I think right now he's assuming he can get someone else, but if he doesn't find anyone else or does but inevitably breaks up when they either won't take his **** or he realizes how much I did for him, that's when he'd possibly change. He was however ok back when I broke up the first time as far as not acting out of control. Problem was that I went back. 

I'm hoping finalizing it will help. We are going to sit down and do the paperwork in January, as I'd get really screwed over tax wise if we did it before then. I may talk to my mom and see what she thinks about the dog situation. He also has the cat too which I'm less attached to but actually could take if I ever got my own place (cause cats could care less if you leave them for 12 hours). I probably shouldn't take her anyway though with my situation being so unstable. But yeah, I don't know how much I should tell my parents. They only know about some of the verbal abuse and then some of the emotional abuse/lying stuff a long time ago before we broke up the first time. They think he has issues that need to be worked out but don't really know how bad it is. I really don't know how much I want to bring them into it...


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

You went back to him. 

You should be more concerned about that than anything else. Quit worrying about problems he might have and start worrying about ones you definitely do.


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

Well the problem is they only want to take the dog if he doesn't want him. And he does want him. So I'd have to go into more detail and I'm not sure how much I should or shouldn't tell them.

Sorry, when I was talking about how he'd be affected I meant that in terms of what was most likely to start him trying to get me back. Which would make it harder for me. Right now he's acting like he doesn't care so it's not as hard as the quickest way to keep me away is to tell me you dont want me. I think my biggest problem is I don't have any support to not go back. I haven't told anyone back home, and I'm someone that has a hard time making close friends. So I'm kinda on my own for now. Does anyone know how you can look for support groups? I might have trouble attending with how busy I am but it also might help. I'm also going to try and find out about IC this week at school.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

What's more important: your life, or the dog's? Your H's feelings are not a factor for you right now because he has shown you who and what he is.

And Meetup.com is good, but getting your ducks in a row is more important than creating a social life right now. Focus on the support networks components you already have in place.


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## beautiful_seclusion (Oct 22, 2013)

My problem is I have pretty much zero support. I just moved to another state and don't even have many friends back home I can trust to talk to as they are all mutual friends with him and likely to take sides. I did go to the center they have at school for relationship violence today and was referred to some counseling and support group services. I have some appointments set up now so hopefully that will help. Basically since I have no support at all, it makes it easier for me to lose perspective and go back. If I have distractions like socializing and someone to talk to about things, I will do better with staying away. Unfortunately because of the timing of this that's not the case. Im in a new city where I knew no one and my only current friends here are via my grad school, so not exactly the best place to find support for something like this considering rumors love to fly in such a right knit sphere. My classmates know I'm separated, but not much beyond that. No one back in my home city knows anything yet except my parents. I'm that alone in this process.


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