# HOw do you know if you are staying for the right reasons?



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Our last DDay was April 2012...yet I still feel so much anger and resentment towards H. I am 45 now have been with him since I was 19 and sometimes the thought of leaving him leaves me feeling both scared and excited...fear becuase I have never lived on my own and excited because of the newness and openess of the future. Yet at times a sense of panic comes over me not sure what I want...yet when I imagine myself in the future without him sometimes I can see myself feeling a sense of peace and all that anger is gone.

I realize that I am in a pretty negative/unhappy place..I do take out my anger on him by making sarcastic/snappy remarks to him.

I feel like I am in a vicious circle as I am not sure whether I want to save this marriage or just end it.

The trust thing is huge too...I am paranoid and always on the lookout for signs he is doing something again...I feel like everytime I question him about where he was/who called that I am giving up my personal power yet I feel compelled to do it because I never want him to think that I have forgotten what he did and that I am on him and if he thinks he will get away with it again he is wrong...I keep telling myself to not let him know I am still checking just quietly do it in the background because sometimes I think it gives that person a sense of wow she is really scared I will cheat again and somehow to me that takes away my self respect.

Couples who have never experienced infidelity are so lucky because it just ends a yuck factor that is so hard to get rid of.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

are you happy??
being scared is ok...but excited about the future without him says alot...only YOU can answer the question

fear isnt an indicator...

are you happy??


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Not really happy...I think partly because I am so torn about what to do...I in some ways mourn for what used to be prior to him doing this because sometimes when I think about how much trust I lost it is a scary feeling. I used to trust him implicitly...no questions asked and now it is like a vicious cycle becuase I am so angry about what he did that I react to him like that...plus I hate the fact that I am a paranoid *****.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

highwood said:


> Not really happy...I think partly because I am so torn about what to do...I in some ways mourn for what used to be prior to him doing this because sometimes when I think about how much trust I lost it is a scary feeling. I used to trust him implicitly...no questions asked and now it is like a vicious cycle becuase I am so angry about what he did that I react to him like that...plus I hate the fact that I am a paranoid *****.


You can always tell him you want to separate and see how it feels. He blew the marriage apart, the old marriage is over, so either it starts back with you both 100%b committed or you split up.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I sort of adopted a ‘flexible’ attitude toward ‘the right reasons’. Basically I found I could tear a page out of the wayward script and learn to justify about any damn thing I wanted. So I just trusted my gut. And yes, it churns. So I somewhat enjoyed coming up with all sorts of foggy and fanciful justifications. They were run of the mill “for the kids” all the way into dreamy revenge like “what better punishment than have her spend the rest of her life living with the shattered man she created knowing that she can’t ‘undo’ what she has done?” 

Pick your justification.... It’s no less or more right than anything else. Just go with your gut and check back often enough to see if it remains consistent or not for the direction to go. 

Oh, and you can do the same stuff to justify divorce too if your gut turns. Easy.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Racer said:


> Pick your justification.... It’s no less or more right than anything else. Just go with your gut and check back often enough to see if it remains consistent or not for the direction to go.
> 
> Oh, and you can do the same stuff to justify divorce too if your gut turns. Easy.


Brilliant insight and I think this applies to anything.

Not enough likes for this one.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Good advice...

I mean I realize that by being *****y and angry toward him is not right and is not helping anything but frick I still feel so much anger toward him.

Like I said it is a vicious cycle because I could imagine him wanting again his nice light flirtatious conversations he had online with his EA rather than my angry attitude (and in a way I cannot blame him) and thinking that only adds to my anger toward him. I think part of it is my fear of being hurt again...the counsellor a year ago siad I am more comfortable iwth anger and honestly I could see that because whenever I think about being all loving and sweet toward him I think yeah and then what if he is playing me for a fool again...so when I think about him having me be all loving and at the same time him getting his ego fed from his long distance EA...makes me see red.

I HATE this!!!!!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

...and then too I wonder if I am "playing the victim" which I hate when others do it...by clinging to what happened and poor me. So again maybe I am contributing to my own feelings of loss of power...

I tell myself that acting insecure and jealous and letting him know I am watching him only adds to his sense of wow I am such a great guy that she is scared that someone else will steal me....so instead of working on myself I am letting myself go so I look less and less like a catch for somebody else.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I might start implementing components of the 180....in order to empower myself again.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

highwood said:


> Our last DDay was April 2012...yet I still feel so much anger and resentment towards H. I am 45 now have been with him since I was 19 and sometimes the thought of leaving him leaves me feeling both scared and excited...fear becuase I have never lived on my own and excited because of the newness and openess of the future. Yet at times a sense of panic comes over me not sure what I want...yet when I imagine myself in the future without him sometimes I can see myself feeling a sense of peace and all that anger is gone.
> 
> I realize that I am in a pretty negative/unhappy place..I do take out my anger on him by making sarcastic/snappy remarks to him.
> 
> ...


Dear highwood,

If the only thing that is keeping you in your marriage is fear, then it's probably time to end it. Consult with an experienced divorce attorney to ensure the best possible financial outcome and then get on with your life.

But if there are other reasons for staying -- young children, residual feelings for your WH -- then think hard whether you really want to end it. A large percentage of divorced people report wishing they had stayed and worked on their marriage longer.

Either way, you seem like a good candidate for anger management counseling. Anger causes physiological changes that can have negative health effects if prolonged (see, e.g., Anger - how it affects people | Better Health Channel).

Wishing you the best.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

It’s truly weird how insane you’ll feel. So, you might be super pissed because you are discussing the affair... Then a kid needs attention and you’ll see him do something absolutely endearing... It both pisses you off AND makes you sad (because he risked those moments) AND is terribly endearing AND pisses you off even more because you don’t want to feel anything ‘good’ toward him. Even add in a bit of self-loathing and shame for having all those emotions. All at once in a nasty shotgun blast.

I stopped trying to really control those emotions or direct them toward just a single one. Just accept your own new insanity and let it wash over you. What’s kind of funny to me is to also stop trying to hide that this is happening internally. Lash out, get clingy, and don’t hold onto having to act reasonable. You spouse won’t know how to handle this. They don’t have any experience with this ‘new you’. You can watch them like a fish out of water flop around trying their old tricks of pacifying.

Just pay attention to your emotions and give them the feedback. It’s kinda shocking all the little stuff you’ll discover about them that you want; It looks nothing like the list of what you thought they should be doing. Like her letting me know when she’s working late wasn’t any where near as important or valued as much as when she got home it feeling like she really wanted to be here. While I needed to know where she was, the highest ‘positive’ feeling came from knowing where she wanted to be. You just can’t put that on a list for them ‘to do’ if you are going to reconcile. But once she knew how much more that was valued, it helped her find ways to let me know that she wanted to be with me throughout the day... so she now also sends txts, asks me lunch, etc. She has a better feeling for what she brings to the relationship for me emotionally because like most waywards.... *there is no logical reason for me to stay... so might as well find the illogical emotional reasons*. Make sense? 

Have a happy Thanksgiving....


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Racer said:


> I sort of adopted a ‘flexible’ attitude toward ‘the right reasons’. Basically I found I could tear a page out of the wayward script and learn to justify about any damn thing I wanted. So I just trusted my gut. And yes, it churns. So I somewhat enjoyed coming up with all sorts of foggy and fanciful justifications. They were run of the mill “for the kids” all the way into dreamy revenge like “what better punishment than have her spend the rest of her life living with the shattered man she created knowing that she can’t ‘undo’ what she has done?”
> 
> Pick your justification.... It’s no less or more right than anything else. Just go with your gut and check back often enough to see if it remains consistent or not for the direction to go.
> 
> Oh, and you can do the same stuff to justify divorce too if your gut turns. Easy.



In the end you will hopefully choose what brings you peace and ultimately happiness. 

My reason for staying was I can still remember the happy times. I can forgive the EA and him and see a happy future. I might not ever trust 100% again but I can see 90% and that's good enough for us.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Highwood,

My d-day May 11' '11. I was married what would be 30 yr. when my husband step out the 27th yr. I have never experince rage and anger as I did my entire life. It stayed with me for almost 2 yrs. We couldnt even start mc as we couldnt even get very far in a conversation without my rage and anger exploding. It wasnt the affair that brought the anger , but the after math that followed, the choices now that I was given.

One of those choices was, separation. We separated with no rules, no help, with only friends gossiping about what the rules were. 

Within the 2.5 years,my anger and rage, brought me down into a depression so great because I was held in limbo(hell) by those emotions. As I allowed the anger to continoue to control me, I hit one of the lowest points in my life since this mess, I finally reached out for help, to my GP, IC, & MC , and its the first time since, I feel the anger is finally hopefully settling ... Maybe now, I can make the decsions, that you are asking yourself too... 

I dont really know what I can tell you other than I understand the anger you feel over what your husband had done. And too understand the excitement along with the fears of the unknown, that you are thinking about. 

This mess really does change us in ways that I never woukd have believed. 

~ sammy


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

sammy3 said:


> Highwood,
> 
> My d-day May 11' '11. I was married what would be 30 yr. when my husband step out the 27th yr. I have never experince rage and anger as I did my entire life. It stayed with me for almost 2 yrs. We couldnt even start mc as we couldnt even get very far in a conversation without my rage and anger exploding. It wasnt the affair that brought the anger , but the after math that followed, the choices now that I was given.
> 
> ...




I think I am also angry at myself for how I handled it..when I first discovered his EA I took alot of the blame on myself..even told him that I would go to counselling to work on myself so I could be a better wife. I think that is the reason I feel so much anger now still because I did not respond in hindsight how I wish I acted..

I did not kick him out..becuase I feared if I did that then he would have all the time in the world then to go online and skype with her. So back then I acted out of fear of losing my marriage and now that I am more "educated" because of TAM...and I also did not know about the 180 back then...I often regret how I handled it. 

I guess too you think that the WS is the one that should be begging for your forgiveness and to give them a second chance yet for us it was the opposite...I even said in counselling one time that I was appreciative of the fact that he gave ME a second chance (this was after DD#2):scratchhead:

I do not discuss this even with people who know about what happened because I feel that they tend to think..get over it already it has been a year and a half. Plus that thing about he did not go off with his EA he picked you...those things do not provide much comfort.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Highwood, the 180 is not the way to go now. If he is cheating yes, but you are in R.

What is needed is forgiveness and love. Your post is bringing tears to my eyes highwood. I am here helping my wife get ready for Thanksgiving. Our youngest son is bringing a new GF. I can't tell you how horrible our past two Thanksgiving were. Two years ago my wife had me go to Cracker Barrel and order food, I did not know she was having a PA and my boys and I were stunned, because she always made a great Thanksgiving meal. Last year, she was still in the PA and I was in false R and Thanksgiving was just off. My wife is really sick today, her episode started yesterday with this Menier's and she is working her butt off to make today special, she knows how I feel, we talked about it. I told her I really don't want Thanksgiving. She said she will make it special and said she is sorry for what she did.

Stop with the sarcastic remarks. Stop with the anger. Anger and bitterness are two things that poison our souls. You only hurt yourself by harboring this.

You can still D him. But if you want to keep your M and find peace, you need to do some work. Some soul searching. As you are finding infidelity is a gift that keeps on giving. As with anything in life you have to overcome these difficulties.

I found this article, keep in mind it is from Rick Reynolds, LCSW
Founder & President Affair Recovery, and is from a Christian perspective. But I think there is some good stuff here.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/anger-dealing-with-betrayal


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Great article...thanks for that!!!! Some of the comments made in the article definently hit home...

"Behind the veil of anger, frequently you will find guilt, feelings of inadequacy, fear and/or hurt. Anger is the emotion that we often use to deal with painful feelings, especially when as it runs alongside recovering from an affair. Anger empowers us, motivates us, and strengthens us. It can even help protect us, but it can also kill us and those we hold dear"

Yep this describes it exactly...I forget too that for him it is probably quite painful for him as well and I often forget about that....I am sure that he feels sick about what happened...plus he was also dealing with issues of ED and low sex drive due to medicaiton that he was taking and I think that caused him lots of anxiety and confusion (from what I hear for a guy suffering from that is highly emotionally painful). Plus for our son to know what he did....

I think my anger comes from trying to protect myself and in a way trying to keep him at bay out of fear of being hurt again...but as Dr. Phil says how is it working for you.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't understand how 99% of the people who have been cheated on stay. I don't think I could stay if I was a BS. I could never trust my spouse again, no matter how much I loved them or how much they apologized. And staying and being super self-righteous and controlling would not make things better for me either.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Daisy10 said:


> I don't understand how 99% of the people who have been cheated on stay. I don't think I could stay if I was a BS. I could never trust my spouse again, no matter how much I loved them or how much they apologized. And staying and being super self-righteous and controlling wold not make things better for me either.


There are posts here on TAM where cheating was a deal breaker and they had no tolerance for it and D their WS. How folks handle infidelity varies. I was theologically trained and worked in ministry either PT or FT from 1985 till just a few years ago. I gave up my ordination last year and I am a FT counselor. From a Christian perspective adultery is grounds for D (IMO). But whether one looks at infidelity from a secular or religious perspective it does not necessarily mean the end of a M, you can see this from various websites that say this.

If I had a person like you in counseling, I would support your decision to D. I would not try to change your mind. 

And I am little befuddled at your comment about being controlling and super self-righteous. Who would want to go there? R for the BS is not about these things, it about healing, building trust, etc.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> And I am little befuddled at your comment about being controlling and super self-righteous. Who would want to go there? R for the BS is not about these things, it about healing, building trust, etc.


Well, I know not everyone acts that way, but I see some people acting that way, and it's kind of an attempt at a one-way healing process, and I just don't see that as working to heal a relationship fully.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I take offense at the "self-righteous" aspect....I am not perfect however I never once cheated on my spouse even during times when I might not have been happy. 

To me cheating is a selfish and mean act and I am proud that I have never sunk to that level.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

highwood said:


> I take offense at the "self-righteous" aspect....I am not perfect however I never once cheated on my spouse even during times when I might not have been happy.
> 
> To me cheating is a selfish and mean act and I am proud that I have never sunk to that level.


I agree. And for the record that 99% number is waaaaaaay off.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

highwood said:


> I take offense at the "self-righteous" aspect....I am not perfect however I never once cheated on my spouse even during times when I might not have been happy.
> 
> To me cheating is a selfish and mean act and I am proud that I have never sunk to that level.


There is a difference in my mind between being super self-righteous and taking the high moral ground. The former is pharisaical, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, pietistic, mealy-mouthed, hypocritical, complacent, smug, self-satisfied, priggish, superior, etc. Taking the moral high ground is doing and acting right. The moral high ground, in ethical or political parlance, refers to the status of being respected for remaining moral, and adhering to and upholding a universally recognized standard of justice or goodness. Certainly it may come across as snobbish or superior but so be it.

If we don't have morals then why have sites like TAM? Why do we talk then about cheaters? 

highwood, you my dear are not self-righteous.

And Daisy, your number of 99% is off. Maybe 98.9876%


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I know no matter how much we try to make it work, how much we try to move on, so far the infidelity has really made a huge divide among us. 

All the fun, all the trust, all the hope ,all the just natural good times, just arent there anymore, time has a strange way of changing so much.

I too did not have TAM early on. I too made sooo many mistake, and I am now so shameful of my behavior as how I treated my ww, how I exposed, who I exposed..., the list goes on... Trying to come to terms with all of that as well as my anger, and what it did & he did. 

I had the guilt of not begging him to return, and all that went with that as much as the guilt of taking them back. Believe me, I was and still am viewed as the bad guy. 

~ sammy


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

....and another thing as well...when the WS knows what they are doing behind the back of the BS who at the time has no clue yet..that is so unfair. 

I think about the times where maybe we had a disagreement/fight/argument, etc over something during that time he was engaged in his EA and I had no clue...and here i was innocently just thinking well this is just a fight we will get over it and move on like we have before. All the while having no clue that those times probably added fuel to his fire to continue on what he was doing...so right there I am at an unfair advantage. I am going along thinking big deal just another fight and he is thinking I can't wait until I speak with my AP again becuase her and I only say nice loving things to each other. Boy my wife is such a *****, etc. etc.

I not once went to work and *****ed about my husband to other men if we had a fight..while apparently he *****ed about me to his AP....and of course she was probably sympathatic and oh you poor man living with that awful woman.

So if that makes me act at times a little "self-righteous" then so be it...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

highwood, are you guys doing any MC? I know you were looking into it a while ago, did you ever go? Do you do any 'bookwork' together to work on your marriage?

Does he ever apologize for what he did? Hubby apologizes to me still whenever I tell him something triggered me. A couple weeks ago, I was in his email account looking for something and in his inbox was a spam email saying that they were going to be refunding money to him as a victim of a Western Union money transfer scam investigation. That hit me right between the eyes. But when I told him about it he apologized very contritely to me again which just made it all better. He is just so remorseful, so obviously remorseful it's amazing.

If he wasn't that way I couldn't be with him. 

It took me till about two years or so before I stopped being pretty angry. I remember at one MC session about a year ago, the MC had me write down my anger and then burn it. That would have been around the 2 year mark. I think it is a very good thing for hubby to see these things in MC because if I was just dealing with them in IC, he wouldn't see them. I think it really hits home to him how much he hurt me this way.


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