# My wife has been flirt texting another man - HELP!!



## CGguy

My wife and I have been together ten years. We have been a bit up and down in the last couple years, but recently made a pact that we would try and get the spark back. In the last few months I have made her a priority, sending flowers, showing tons of affection, etc. etc. I thought things were really getting better, great even. Then I just found out saturday my wife has been texting another man (an old friend of hers) off and on while I've been gone, or late at night when shes out with her friends. I knew something was going on in the last couple months because she would hold on to her phone like mother goose with a golden egg. So I checked the phone bill and saw late night texts to a number I didn't know. Then I checked her cell phone, and those messages to that number had been deleted. So I confronted her about it right away and she admitted that she had been texting back and forth with this man for two months. My first instinct was to leave. I was so hurt, and so pissed I couldn't even look at her. I asked her if she ever met up with him and she said no. It was only texting and nothing sexual, just a little flirting. 

Now, I have read some other posts on here so I know what a lot of people say about the emotional affairs and such. And I know a lot of people will say b.s. she's met up with him at some point. I don't know if this was an emotional affair, but I'll tell you, it hurts almost as bad as if she was sleeping with him. Maybe I'm just being too sensitive about it. From calming down a little and talking with her I am 95% sure that I found out before it went past texting (I checked phone records, facebook, and no phone calls or facebook messages were made, just texts that I can see). She was fully aware she did something wrong and appologized profusely and told me she would do anything to make it better. She told me it was her lack of self esteem that drove the texting, that she was looking for attention (I give her tons of attention by the way). I explained to her that she had broken the trust between us, and how do I know that I could believe her. She called what she did stupid, and that she came out right away because she felt guilty about it. I don't know what to believe now. I'm so confused. My anxiety is through the roof right now. 

One other contributing factor I think I should mention is that she has a newly divorced friend that is back in town, and looking to go out everynight and basically needs a wingwomen. I'm not sure if this friend of hers encouraged this hookup or not, but she definitely did not help the situation (I saw texts to my wife that read something about my wife meeting up with the dude the night before, Friday when they were out together). This sudden tight relationship with her friend originally opened my eyes to something going on. They are texting each other like 40 times a day, its ridiculous. 

So after thinking about it for day and getting over my initial rage about it, I told her calmly yesterday that first, all contact with this guy was to stop right away or I was gone. Second, I told her that if our marriage was going to work we needed no more secrets between us. Third, I told her that I did not want to share her with anyone else, emotionally or physically. End of story. Do you guys think I did the right thing? I am still feeling really wounded by this. Any other opinions/suggestions?


----------



## LovetheDaisy

What was her response? Is she willing to be an open book from here on out and also limit her "time out" with her girlfriend?


----------



## sigma1299

You totally did the right thing, but it still remains to be seen if you did enough of it. 

Take it very very seriously. Long story short, I had a two month EA with an old high school GF I hadn't heard from in 22 years. We went from "Hi" to "I love you" in 10 days!! We never laid eyes on each other through the whole EA, but in that time she asked me to marry her and said several times she would leave for me. I have no idea if she meant it or not, I always chose to believe she didn't but I'm not sure about that. 

Be aware that emotional affairs are very hard to kill and your wife will struggle with it - badly. Treat her and the affair like an addict and a drug. That's basically what you're dealing with.

Edit - you may also benefit from posting this over the coping with infidelity section, but be prepared for the bad news and tough advice you're going to get.


----------



## mrbeats

"Limiting" spouses in my opinion can have negative impacts in the long term.. Just my 2 cents


----------



## scione

"Not" limiting spouses will have very negative impacts in the near future.


----------



## s.k

If you didnt confront she wouldnt have told you. The part where you say she said she came out right away because she was feeling guilty sorry to me sounds like a lie she came out because you found out and there was no other reasonable explaination for her actions. If you think you can trust her eventually then give it another go but personally i would keep a close eye on her. Until you can trust her keep strict boundaries who she calls/ texts who calls/texts her.


----------



## CGguy

She said that I could look at her phone, email, whatever it takes for me to trust her again. I just feel like I shouldn't have to do that, and honestly would feel really weird always checking up on her all time. And, I think after a while she would resent me for that and call me controlling. 

I don't know, I'm so freaked out by this. I never thought in a million years she would do something like this. I don't know what a panic attack feels like but I think I may of had one at work today. I'm so anxious and paranoid, it's all I can think about right now. Ahhhhh...I hate that she made me feel this way.


----------



## Jellybeans

Who is the guy? Do you know him???

Keep checking her call logs w/o letting her know so you can solve the mystery.


----------



## Jellybeans

scione said:


> "Not" limiting spouses will have very negative impacts in the near future.


:iagree:


----------



## calif_hope

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

You did good but I would have added that your wife to tell newly divorced friend to find 'single' wingwomen to go hunting with, no ladies night with single women. Now if the friends divorce was caused by her infidelity - no contact with your wife as she will be toxic to your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

Welcome to the forum even if it is for an unfortunate reason

A few guide lines 

Read the following thread 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Don't leave the house , if anyone leaves she does.

Expose the affair to the OM's wife , parents and siblings

Expose to her parents and yours and ask for their support to help your marriage recover

If the OM is on facebook , before you block his name, access his friends list copy the names and web links to a word document . If he does not back off you will be asked to expose his adultery far and wide.

Your wife sends him a hand written NC letter . A template is in the newbie thread 

She changes her number, email account and blocks him from her Facebook.

Friends who are deemed to be waywards of supporters of her affair have no place in your families social circle.

There is full transparency of everything between you, bob of you should have access to passwords to all email and phones.

Often there is a glitch in the marriage . The affair is 100 %her doing the 
marriage issues are 50/50. To help understand one another's needs , read "his needs her needs" by Harley.

A warning , often the affair goes underground as it is intoxicating to the waywards. 

While working wih your wife ensure the OM is removed , every effort should be made to make future contact difficult or unpleasant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

Her friends marriage was ruined because her husband was a giant jerk. Her friend is now reverting back to highschool, going out every night, hooking up with guys etc. I just thing my wife fell into that with her a bit. You really think I should expose this to the OM girlfriend? He is not married I guess. A no contact letter, interesting. I think she'll be apposed to all of it to be honest. I think she is downplaying this a bit, saying it was 'harmless texts', hey how you doing type things. Although she did admit there was a little flirting. But she is a flirtacious person. Obviously this is way overstepping boundaries.


----------



## Eli-Zor

CGguy said:


> Her friends marriage was ruined because her husband was a giant jerk. Her friend is now reverting back to highschool, going out every night, hooking up with guys etc. I just thing my wife fell into that with her a bit. You really think I should expose this to the OM girlfriend? He is not married I guess. A no contact letter, interesting. I think she'll be apposed to all of it to be honest. I think she is downplaying this a bit, saying it was 'harmless texts', hey how you doing type things. Although she did admit there was a little flirting. But she is a flirtacious person. Obviously this is way overstepping boundaries.


Yes I know you should expose to his girlfriend and family. It is not your wife's choice and when you do so you do not tell her . If she finds out she has broken NC.

Added after I posted the above:--




> "Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
> 
> 
> 
> "The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."




Ask yourself , was it so harmless that you almost left . Did she spend time and effort sending you as many or more text messages . She was in the beginning or mid stream into an EA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HerToo

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

You did good. Now it's her turn to do all of the work. Meanwhile, make sure you have access to everything (email, texts, calls, logins on social websites, etc.).

Get her to inform the OM about NC right away. 
If the OM is married, let his wife now she has a problem to deal with too.

Sorry you are here.


----------



## Wanabeelee

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

Have her take a polygraph test. She said she would be willing to do anything.


----------



## EleGirl

Ask your wife to write him a no-contact 'letter'. If all contact was via text then she can text it. There are samples of what it should say around here. 

The ltr should say that she has hurt you terribly with the relationship with him, that she loves you and wants to repair her marriage with you and that she will not have any contact of any kind with him in the future. You need to be there when she writes it and sends it to him. Makes sure it goes to his phone number.

Also, the friendship with the divorced friend has to end. She enabled your wife's EA.


----------



## CGguy

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

Thank you guys. OM is not married I guess so I don't how I'm going to get his girlfriends contacts but I will try. You think a simple email or text message will do? or do I need to call you think? I have no idea who this girl is, so I think contacting her family is a bit much, but copying his contacts is a good idea. 

Thank you for your sympathy. I feel awful right now. I can't concentrate on work and I feel like I'm losing my mind right now. Ugh..


----------



## CGguy

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

Polygraph..huh...I actually know of someone who does private ones. I wonder how much that would cost?


----------



## HerToo

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*

You should be mad and sad at the same time. It's normal. But you need to take full control. She gave you that power. Use it!


----------



## s.k

Its going to be weird for a while but i think its the only way to gain some trust back and ai agree contact with the divorced friend needs to end. She may well resent you for checking up on her but shes put herself in this situation. She should be happy that you havent walked out her and you should remind her of this if she does ever complain about you checking up on her.


----------



## CGguy

The more I think about it, I think a no-contact letter is a good idea. I think for good measure I am going to get his GF's contact info. too just in case he doesn't listen to the letter. 

She won't end the friendship with the friend. They have been close/best friends for 20 years. It is hard for me to know exactly what her friend new and what she didn't. Her friend may not of known to what extent these texts were happening. For me to demand that she break off the friendship would not bode well I don't think. I will give it some thought though, and maybe do a little more digging. I'm going to talk with my wife some more tonight about what the groundrules are going to be. I know I can't sit around all day thinking about whether she is messaging him some other way I don't know about.


----------



## Eli-Zor

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*



CGguy said:


> Thank you guys. OM is not married I guess so I don't how I'm going to get his girlfriends contacts but I will try. You think a simple email or text message will do? or do I need to call you think? I have no idea who this girl is, so I think contacting her family is a bit much, but copying his contacts is a good idea.
> 
> Thank you for your sympathy. I feel awful right now. I can't concentrate on work and I feel like I'm losing my mind right now. Ugh..


if you have her phone number call her, offer to email her the details. 

I added more information to the Newbie link, please read it 

Hang in there, this will be tough for some while yet. East well, exercise, give your mind a rest, go to the doc if you have to and most important create a plan from what we are saying. Be aware this affair may be on hold and not yet over. 

Once you have a plan you can work to you will feel better. We understand the wayward script and can pre-warn you of some of the reactions.


----------



## s.k

CGguy said:


> The more I think about it, I think a no-contact letter is a good idea. I think for good measure I am going to get his GF's contact info. too just in case he doesn't listen to the letter.
> 
> She won't end the friendship with the friend. They have been close/best friends for 20 years. It is hard for me to know exactly what her friend new and what she didn't. Her friend may not of known to what extent these texts were happening. For me to demand that she break off the friendship would not bode well I don't think. I will give it some thought though, and maybe do a little more digging. I'm going to talk with my wife some more tonight about what the groundrules are going to be. I know I can't sit around all day thinking about whether she is messaging him some other way I don't know about.


I think letting the guys gf know whats been going on is something that you should do first before the letter. Also as you dont know if this friend was encouraging her maybe it would be best to tell her that you dont mind having contact with her but not on a regular basis she needs to gain some trust back. Some people may not agree but you need to play the tough love card not to tough though but tough enough to give her the message that you wont be taken for a fool. If you go soft she may think she can get away with anything. Good luck.


----------



## CGguy

I met him a long time ago. I thought he was a jerk. He lives about 25 minutes away from us.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> I met him a long time ago. I thought he was a jerk.


Often those in affairs downgrade.:scratchhead:


----------



## CGguy

All I have to go on is a picture of his GF on his facebook page. Maybe I can swipe the details off my wifes phone before she "deletes" him as a contact. Ugh, its eating me up inside wondering if they actually physically got together. I'm trying to put that out of my mind and believe her that it didn't happen. The fact there was no actual phone calls between them supports her a little. 

One of the issues though is she has been out of work (laid off) for the last 3 months, and just went back to work today. There are a small handful of text messages that were sent and received during the day while I was at work that I documented. Who the hell knows if they met up or not. I have no way of knowing other than to take her word for it.


----------



## calif_hope

Get that your wife won't drop friend, but talk to your wife that you believe that in her current condition that her friend is making bad choices, that she wants company in her activities, that she is a bad influence, as is toxic to your marriage at this time.......tell your wife that you expect no more wingwoman/GNO, (doing so will trigger you).....the friend can come for dinner, do lunch., and most anything with the exception of activities that involve going out at night, booze, and bars:nightclubs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

mrbeats said:


> "Limiting" spouses in my opinion can have negative impacts in the long term.. Just my 2 cents


The entire definition of "spouse" is riddled with "limiting" concepts.

It`s kind of the point of being a "spouse" isn`t it?


----------



## CGguy

I have talked to her about that, even before all this happened. She basically told me not to blame her friend and that she felt like I was smothering her. I think now though she may be open to listening. I just fear that it will push her further away, and again, will feel like I am controlling her. I don't have time to control her, nor do I feel like I should need to. We are both grown ups here, I guess the difference is that I would never in a million years do this to her. 

I will talk to her about the booze, and bars though. I think that is probably a good idea. Unless I am with her. Although right now I really don't want to be any where near her friend. I feel deep down that she did encorouge this in one way or another. Just no proof really.


----------



## mrbeats

scione said:


> "Not" limiting spouses will have very negative impacts in the near future.


I dont disagree.

at all.

I was just trying to point out that in my opinion it should be done tactfully. 

If the situation is resolved but resentment is present in the long run it may bring similar issues in the future.

i only say this because ive limited in the past and it came back to bite me... but maybe thats just me.


----------



## CGguy

One more thing to add. From talking to her she knows what she did was wrong, and says she would be pissed if the shoe was on the other foot as they say. But, I still feel like she doesn't necessarily understand the full brevity of what she has done. I feel like she thinks this will just blow over soon. I do forgive very easy. I tend to just let things go quickly, unlike her. But this one is going to be tough. I don't see that I will be able to get over this quick.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> I feel like she thinks this will just blow over soon.


Its called rug sweeping , print out the remorse item in the newbie thread and let her read it.


----------



## Wanabeelee

CGguy said:


> I have talked to her about that, even before all this happened. She basically told me not to blame her friend and that she felt like I was smothering her. I think now though she may be open to listening. I just fear that it will push her further away, and again, will feel like I am controlling her. I don't have time to control her, nor do I feel like I should need to. We are both grown ups here, I guess the difference is that I would never in a million years do this to her.
> 
> I will talk to her about the booze, and bars though. I think that is probably a good idea. Unless I am with her. Although right now I really don't want to be any where near her friend. I feel deep down that she did encorouge this in one way or another. Just no proof really.


It may be that the friend is just talking about how much better it is to be single right now. She may not be meaning to sway your wife, but when you said that she was smothered, and that you may be a bit controlling it triggered me. 

My wife's friend got a D and was all happy about it. Said things like it was the best thing I've done in my life... ect.... ect... ect.. 

Marriage sometimes seems controlling, and smothering because they are not free to do anyone / anything they want like what they see from the D'ed friend.

No bars, clubs, or other places people go to hookup without you. Daytime shopping, lunch, movies, and the like are things that could still be open to your wife and friend.


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

What normally happens in these posts, (and personal experience), is the relationship gets "stale" or "stressful" or "neglectful" and one of the partners spices it up with attention and flirting from someone of the opposite sex. 

Then they get caught and split up or vow to "work on the relationship". 

What troubles me about your post is that you seemed to have some kind of awakening and began putting in major effort into showing your wife affection and such the past few months. And it was during this time she was seeking the attention of the other man. I would want to know why your efforts were not being reciprocated. Has she checked out already? Is she rejecting your efforts because of resentment to some other issues?

In other words, why was she seeking this attention from another man during the same time frame that you were showing extra effort to her??


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*



CGguy said:


> Her friends marriage was ruined because her husband was a giant jerk.


that's what they all say.

it's also possible her husband kicked her cheating ass out and she is lying to make herself look better.


----------



## CGguy

Stranger, I think you hit the nail on the head mostly. I think honestly we both got a bit lazy, maybe more so me than her. I did have an awakening a few months ago to be honest. It took me a while to get to that point unfortunately, but I totally did a 180, well maybe not a 180, but definitely a 130. I think it freaked her out some to be honest. She was not used to me being as attentive I think. I asked her about why when things were getting better between us she decided she needed more attention. She said that the texting started just before we talked about bettering our relationship. Honestly, I think that once she started she the texting she couldn't stop. I think she got used to someone other than me telling her she was nice looking, smart etc. etc. It made her feel better about herself because she has put on a little weight, lost a job etc. As she said. Her self esteem was "crap".

Her friends husband was an ass. I saw it first hand. I'm not saying her friend is all flowers and peaches, obviously not. My opinion of her has gone down the toilet for sure.


----------



## TDSC60

*Re: My wife texting another man - Help!!*



CGguy said:


> Her friends marriage was ruined because her husband was a giant jerk. Her friend is now reverting back to highschool, going out every night, hooking up with guys etc. I just thing my wife fell into that with her a bit. You really think I should expose this to the OM girlfriend? He is not married I guess. A no contact letter, interesting. I think she'll be apposed to all of it to be honest. I think she is downplaying this a bit, saying it was 'harmless texts', hey how you doing type things. Although she did admit there was a little flirting. But she is a flirtacious person. Obviously this is way overstepping boundaries.


Can she see the pain this has caused you? Does she still think it is/was harmless?

No contact letter is a must and she must immediately tell you if he tries to contact her again.

To me a GNO should not involve a place where there are members of the opposite sex looking to hook up (bars and clubs are definitely a no-no unless you two are going together). If she gets close to the fire often enough someone will be burned eventually. Plus anytime alcohol is involved, normal boundaries start to dim and can be crossed,


----------



## CGguy

She sees the pain. She saw it on my face when she told me who the number belonged to. I think harmless might not be the best word for it. I just don't think she understands the amount it hurt, and it is hard to put it into words. 

I talked to her about the alcohol and what could of happened. I asked her if I hadn't found out now, how long would it have been before they met out at the bar one night when she was out with her friend, and he gives her a ride home, alcohol, sweet talking, kissing starts .......... Right? She kind of just shook her head in agreement with me. 

I will talk to her about the Nights out with her friend. If it was a group of her friends I wouldn't be as worried, but I don't like the fact she is out with a friend who is newly divorced who's main reason of going out is to hook up with guys. Plus, her friend definitely new something about this OG, I saw her mention him in texts between the two of them.


----------



## Eli-Zor

She has to dump the friend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Eli-Zor said:


> She has to dump the friend
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most definitely.


----------



## LostCPA

tacoma said:


> Most definitely.


If she won’t give up this toxic friend, then she obviously values her friend more than she does you or her marriage.

I’m sorry but this would be a deal breaker. I would also advise that you continue to snoop to see if anything is still going on or if this may have gotten more physical than she admitted to.

There is one thing that all waywards do and that is lie. Just member, trust but verify.


----------



## working_together

I would agree that the friend has to go. I once let go of friend I had since I was 18 for something similar. I could be wrong but when you're married, having single friends can be tricky.


----------



## Beowulf

Wanabeelee said:


> It may be that the friend is just talking about how much better it is to be single right now. She may not be meaning to sway your wife, but when you said that she was smothered, and that you may be a bit controlling it triggered me.
> 
> My wife's friend got a D and was all happy about it. Said things like it was the best thing I've done in my life... ect.... ect... ect..
> 
> Marriage sometimes seems controlling, and smothering because they are not free to do anyone / anything they want like what they see from the D'ed friend.
> 
> No bars, clubs, or other places people go to hookup without you. Daytime shopping, lunch, movies, and the like are things that could still be open to your wife and friend.


Her friend is in for a rude awakening I think. My brother-in-law's wife wouldn't give up her party girl lifestyle. He caught her cheating and bounced her. Now she is an aging venus flytrap trying to catch drunk wayward barflies if she can catch them. It's a very sad existence.


----------



## Chaparral

GNO's with toxic girlfriend will lead to real trouble if it hasn't already.

You know what the girlfriend is looking for. I expect your wife has been looking too.


----------



## MrK

How often does she go out with the toxic friend? You know they are partying with men the entire time they're out, right? The TF is DEFINITELY hooking up. What do you think your wife does while she's doing that? Minimum, being a good wingwoman.

The emotional affair was bad. The nights out, a LOT worse than you think. Does she discuss these nights out with you? Does she tell you what she does while out? Does she tell you how many men she's met while out? How many she's partied with? Does she tell you about the men she continues to meet up with at these places? 

A wife is walking out the door saying "i'm going dancing with ____" and nobody has a problem with it. Yet they would never let their wife out the door if they said "I'm going out with _____ because we love the attention we get from strange men. We party with them, dance with them, and do all kinds of things we never tell you about". See you at 3AM.

Same exact statement, yet with one everyone feels good because the husband is so trusting and non-controlling.


----------



## lordmayhem

MrK said:


> How often does she go out with the toxic friend? You know they are partying with men the entire time they're out, right? The TF is DEFINITELY hooking up. What do you think your wife does while she's doing that? Minimum, being a good wingwoman.
> 
> The emotional affair was bad. The nights out, a LOT worse than you think. Does she discuss these nights out with you? Does she tell you what she does while out? Does she tell you how many men she's met while out? How many she's partied with? Does she tell you about the men she continues to meet up with at these places?
> 
> A wife is walking out the door saying "i'm going dancing with ____" and nobody has a problem with it. Yet they would never let their wife out the door if they said "I'm going out with _____ because we love the attention we get from strange men. We party with them, dance with them, and do all kinds of things we never tell you about". See you at 3AM.
> 
> Same exact statement, yet with one everyone feels good because the husband is so trusting and non-controlling.


:iagree:

She needs to drop the Toxic Friend (TF) who is NOT a friend of the marriage, and is enabling this bad behavior. If she would choose this TF over the marriage, then this is a clear indicator of how unremorseful and not being 100% committed to the marriage.


----------



## Bugz Bunny

CGguy said:


> One of the issues though is she has been out of work (laid off) for the last 3 months, and just went back to work today. There are a small handful of text messages that were sent and received during the day while I was at work that I documented. Who the hell knows if they met up or not. I have no way of knowing other than to take her word for it.



Lets see:

1. Wife not working for 3 months (a lot of free time for her)
2. Two months of texting and he lives only 25 minutes away and not meet each other (sorry but I dont believe)

Polygraph will answer all your questions...you need to know the full truth because you need to know what you are forgiving...


----------



## Initfortheduration

Do not let her down play it. She was cheating. That's it. If she was doing stuff with him, that she didn't want you to know about.......that's cheating. If she down plays it. Take her to a bus stop, in front of a night spot she likes with her old friend. Then tell her to get out at the bus stop. Tell her, if she wants to down play, she can down play you walking out of that bar with someone else on your arm. Or if she thinks her cheating is no big deal......take the bus. Its that simple.


----------



## CGguy

Update: I spoke to her last night. Fairly good talk. After pulling my hair out yesterday about all this I feel a bit better today after speaking to her. She reitterated the fact there was no contact, or sexual talk of any kind. I do believe her. I expressed to her again how betrayed I feel, even if it was just text messages. And that is because she hid it from me. I also told her that I knew her and her toxic friend were planning on meeting up with him one night, and she admitted that they had texted to see what he was doing. She didn't want to tell me the other night because she thought it would send me over the edge. That to me is kind of bs, she wouldn't have told me period if I didn't read it on her phone. She also tried to tell me that she wasn't hiding the text messages from me, just that she clears text messages out from time to time. I called bs on that too, and she came clean and said she didn't want me to be jealous that she had a male friend.

All that being said, she has agreed to send a NC letter, and delete his contact info. off everything. I will definitely be staying on high alert for a while. She'll just have to deal with that. 

As far as the Toxic Friend goes she said she would not drop her as a friend. She told me her friend had no idea to the extent the text messages were, and that she knew my wife and him were just friends. She did agree to not go out drinking alone with her. She only goes out partying with her maybe 2 times a month alone but I think for now her friend needs to find another wingwomen. 

So that is where we stand right now. She has vowed that she is sorry that she hurt me, and swears she won't do anything like this again and everything will be above boards from now on. She says she didn't realize at the time the magnitude of what she was doing, but now understands how I feel. I guess time will tell if she is being honest with me.


----------



## snap

Do not believe her. Get trust out of your system, it is unwarranted in your current relationship. For your own sake.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> All that being said, she has agreed to send a NC letter, and delete his contact info. off everything. I will definitely be staying on high alert for a while. She'll just have to deal with that.


So far good news




> As far as the Toxic Friend goes she said she would not drop her as a friend. She told me her friend had no idea to the extent the text messages were, and that she knew my wife and him were just friends. She did agree to not go out drinking alone with her. She only goes out partying with her maybe 2 times a month alone but I think for now her friend needs to find another wingwomen.


Contact the Toxic friend and tell her that your wife has been in an affair with the OM and she is either party to it or being used as a cover.


Its the kind of conversation along the lines of : Template below



> " I am calling to let you know that my wife has been having an affair with XXX and it appears you are were supporting the affair , aware of the the affair or are being used by my wife as cover. We are working together to recover our marriage and I am letting you know of the situation."


Leave it at that and say bye. 

The reason for you calling is:

The Toxic friend will know of the affair - have no doubt.Your not accusing her and are giving the friend an out allowing her to claim she did not know. You are marking her card before your wife gas lights you to her or accuses you of being controlling. 

When in discussion with your wife , use words like transparency, openness, honesty or if you have to refer to the OM call him a "wayward" or "Sue's husband XXX" where Sue is his wife or SO. It enforces to your wife he belongs to someone else.

Have phrases like "privacy is when going the bathroom secrecy is deceit" ready.

I highly recommend you give her the book "his needs her needs" by Harley. Both of you read it particularly the chapters on meeting each others needs.


----------



## CGguy

I was thinking about calling the friend yesterday. In the back of my head I keep asking myself if I'm making too big of a deal of this. What if it was just harmless text messaging. It doesn't feel that way, but that is because she hid it from me and there is no proof anymore whether it was harmless texting between friends or not. 

I will check out the book for sure. thanks.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Its harmless until it has to be kept secret. Whats the cell phone bill look like? Is it excessive to the same number? These things all spell more than harmless. Its exactly the same thing my exwife did prior to deciding she didnt love me anymore. Im afraid you just caught a mouse in the cage, and all its going to do is want to get out and get away.


----------



## CGguy

Last two months have been many texts to the same number, his. Mostly when I am not around, or when she's been out with her friends. She said she just liked the attention, and that they are strictly friends, and that she was afraid I would find out and be jealous she had a male friend. I think she is correct on the attention, bs on the jealousy thing. She knew I would find out at some point. Maybe this is a cry for more attention from me? I don't know.


----------



## MrK

CGguy said:


> As far as the Toxic Friend goes she said she would not drop her as a friend. She told me her friend had no idea to the extent the text messages were, and that she knew my wife and him were just friends. She did agree to not go out drinking alone with her. She only goes out partying with her maybe 2 times a month alone but I think for now her friend needs to find another wingwomen.


The toxic friend was anything BUT a simple innocent bystander. She fully knew the extent of the affair. She encouraged it. That's the point of a wingwoman. Not just for meat markets any more.

And no more clubbing was agreed to? OK. Did you talk about her nights at the meat markets? What she did? Who she partied with? Didn't think so. Or if you did, you got vague responses. Granted, this is my issue, and I'm a little psycho about it, but I can just about guarantee that your wife and her TF regularly discuss how your wife dodged a huge bullet by you concentrating on the inappropriate texting relationship and not what transpired on these nights out.

Your comment above, to me, reads as "I only went to meat markets and made out with strange men twice a month. But if you have a problem with it I'll stop".

Ask her what her and her friend did at these bars and clubs for 5 hours until 2:00 AM. They sat in a booth and chatted all night? I doubt it. As a matter of fact I'd bet huge money on something a little less innocent.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Put some heat on her about the GNO's. Watch her squirm.


----------



## Wanabeelee

CGguy said:


> I was thinking about calling the friend yesterday. In the back of my head I keep asking myself if I'm making too big of a deal of this. What if it was just harmless text messaging. It doesn't feel that way, but that is because she hid it from me and there is no proof anymore whether it was harmless texting between friends or not.
> 
> I will check out the book for sure. thanks.


polygraph test

For your mental health through this.

It will eat you up what some others have said. 3 weeks, 25 min drive, 100's of text you dont know what the content was, her and her toxic friend asking about hooking up, (sounded more like it was just her from what you posted and friend wanted to know how it went *just the way I took it*), her not comeing out with the whole truth when you confronted her about it, and the fact she already knew this guy from the past.

It should cost between 300 and 500..... Well worth knowing for sure


----------



## Dadof3

MrK said:


> The toxic friend was anything BUT a simple innocent bystander. She fully knew the extent of the affair. She encouraged it. That's the point of a wingwoman. Not just for meat markets any more.
> 
> And no more clubbing was agreed to? OK. Did you talk about her nights at the meat markets? What she did? Who she partied with? Didn't think so. Or if you did, you got vague responses. Granted, this is my issue, and I'm a little psycho about it, but I can just about guarantee that your wife and her TF regularly discuss how your wife dodged a huge bullet by you concentrating on the inappropriate texting relationship and not what transpired on these nights out.
> 
> Your comment above, to me, reads as "I only went to meat markets and made out with strange men twice a month. But if you have a problem with it I'll stop".
> 
> Ask her what her and her friend did at these bars and clubs for 5 hours until 2:00 AM. They sat in a booth and chatted all night? I doubt it. As a matter of fact I'd bet huge money on something a little less innocent.
> 
> You're barking up the wrong tree. Put some heat on her about the GNO's. Watch her squirm.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:



> I have talked to her about that, even before all this happened. She basically told me not to blame her friend and that she felt like I was smothering her. I think now though she may be open to listening. I just fear that it will push her further away, and again, will feel like I am controlling her. I don't have time to control her, nor do I feel like I should need to. We are both grown ups here, I guess the difference is that I would never in a million years do this to her.
> 
> I will talk to her about the booze, and bars though. I think that is probably a good idea. Unless I am with her. Although right now I really don't want to be any where near her friend. I feel deep down that she did encorouge this in one way or another. Just no proof really.


typical red flags 



> Her friends marriage was ruined because her husband was a giant jerk. Her friend is now reverting back to highschool, going out every night, hooking up with guys etc. I just thing my wife fell into that with her a bit.


another red flag

Dude - you have a text message that alludes to them meeting in person. 25 miles is not that far to "hook up". You have WAY more going on that harmless txting experience. She has the fog pulled over your eyes almost deeper than her own. 

Her Toxic friend HAS TO GO. I'd say you have a dealbreaker. Toxic friends are almost worse than Other Men. Other Men come and go, Toxic friends facilitate that happening.


----------



## CGguy

We don't live in an area with tons of clubs. Clubbing is not her scene anyhow. She tells me exactly what they did the night before, where they went etc. And who her...almost...divorced friend tried hooking up with. I trust my wife is not picking up dudes at the bar. Its not her style. The texting between this "friend", that is my issue with her. Not to mention, I know everyone around here. If she was out around here hooking up with some dude at a bar/club I would know about it. 

Wanabeelee, yes the text read that my wife was going to ask if he'd want to hang out with them, and her friend replyed 'cool' basically. But, her justification of that is that they would not have been out alone, and that they are just friends. I just wish she never hid the friendship, maybe I would be a little jealous, but there wouldn't be this feeling of betrayal. That is where she went wrong in this whole thing.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Do not doubt yourself, call the friend and have the conversation. If the friend challenges you all you state is you have hard evidence of her adultery and that you will not reveal what unless the affair continues and your forced to take matters further. Be mysterious , they won't know what you have and it is unlikley they have a game plan . Their whispered conversation will add to their discomfort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Does anyone else here smell a rug sweep? Get the broom! 


Yea - its a rug sweep!


----------



## working_together

MrK said:


> The toxic friend was anything BUT a simple innocent bystander. She fully knew the extent of the affair. She encouraged it. That's the point of a wingwoman. Not just for meat markets any more.
> 
> And no more clubbing was agreed to? OK. Did you talk about her nights at the meat markets? What she did? Who she partied with? Didn't think so. Or if you did, you got vague responses. Granted, this is my issue, and I'm a little psycho about it, but I can just about guarantee that your wife and her TF regularly discuss how your wife dodged a huge bullet by you concentrating on the inappropriate texting relationship and not what transpired on these nights out.
> 
> Your comment above, to me, reads as "I only went to meat markets and made out with strange men twice a month. But if you have a problem with it I'll stop".
> 
> Ask her what her and her friend did at these bars and clubs for 5 hours until 2:00 AM. They sat in a booth and chatted all night? I doubt it. As a matter of fact I'd bet huge money on something a little less innocent.
> 
> You're barking up the wrong tree. Put some heat on her about the GNO's. Watch her squirm.


I agree with this.

Your wife shared all the details with her, maybe her friend didn't cover up for her, but she knew what was going on.


The friend is single and probably talking quite a bit of what single life entails, hook ups etc. How would your wife actually not talk about her own affair, it would be the perfect time to complain about her current marriage, and I am sure she would feel comfortable with revealing her texting relationship.

I don't really agree with the GNA, and frankly 2 times a month is way too much. I used to do the GNA when I was single, it puzzles me that married women would want to go out get drunk, dance and party even 2 times a month. GNA to me would entail going out to dinner with friends, or a movie. Bars/clubs mean only one thing. Just saying.


----------



## working_together

CGguy said:


> We don't live in an area with tons of clubs. Clubbing is not her scene anyhow. She tells me exactly what they did the night before, where they went etc. And who her...almost...divorced friend tried hooking up with. I trust my wife is not picking up dudes at the bar. Its not her style. The texting between this "friend", that is my issue with her. Not to mention, I know everyone around here. If she was out around here hooking up with some dude at a bar/club I would know about it.
> 
> Wanabeelee, yes the text read that my wife was going to ask if he'd want to hang out with them, and her friend replyed 'cool' basically. But, her justification of that is that they would not have been out alone, and that they are just friends. I just wish she never hid the friendship, maybe I would be a little jealous, but there wouldn't be this feeling of betrayal. That is where she went wrong in this whole thing.


But does it not worry you that she is hanging out with people whether divorced or not that are out on the prowl? I wouldn't feel comfortable with my husband going out with single guys and partying etc.


----------



## Dadof3

I'm thinking maybe shock therapy might actually work in this situation. 

Tell her to pack her bags for a little surprise trip. 

Then drive her the 25 miles to OM's house. 

Have her get out of the car with her bags. 

Lock the doors and leave for 5 minutes. See if she is frantically waiting for your return when you get back.

She might have a change of mind about the "relationship" and her toxic friend as a result.


----------



## Dadof3

If she isn't frantically waiting for your return (inside of OM's house) - then you can leave her there and file your divorce papers and be glad to not have her hanging around.


----------



## CGguy

Oh I don't doubt that she talks to her friend about our current marriage, and that she was aware that my wife was texting this man. They have been best friends for like 15 years. My wife says her friend was aware that they were contacting each other as friends, and neither of them saw a problem with this because my wife and him were just friends (who, by the way hadn't spoken to each other in 7 or 8 years, which is when I met him). 

Most times my wife will not drink, or only have one or two glasses of wine. She ends up driving her friend around while she drinks usually.

Like I said, she has agreed to not be in contact with this guy "friend" whatsoever from here on out, and she's said no more 1 on 1 girl night outs with this friend. I told her last night the way her friend is acting right now is toxic to our marriage and I don't want her to be a part of it.


----------



## MrK

CGguy said:


> We don't live in an area with tons of clubs. Clubbing is not her scene anyhow. She tells me exactly what they did the night before, where they went etc. And who her...almost...divorced friend tried hooking up with. I trust my wife is not picking up dudes at the bar. Its not her style.


One more and I'll leave you alone. 

So, your wife is along for the ride while her friend trolls for strange at meat markets. How sweet. And what does she do once the friend hits her target? Sits in a corner booth and nurses her drink alone? And what do the friends of the lucky guy do while this is going on? Look up "wingman" (wingWOMAN is still a little too new) and see what the roll is. Like it or not, your wife was a textbook wingwoman. 

And my wife wasn't the type to hook up at bars either. Start a thread about people who got burned because "it wasn't her style".

And read this. It was originally posted here as a dig against religious girls w.h.o.r.i.n.g around, but ignore that aspect and focus on the behavior. I read your other thread. She kept asking for "space" while all this was going on, wasn't she?

Girls Night Out - By Riki Stein | Unpious.com


----------



## CGguy

The space thing did come up at the peak of our troubles a couple months ago. She said she needed time to think about what her needs were, and then decided that she did want to work things out with me about 6 weeks ago. The relationship has been really good in that period, sex life coming back, we were being super nice to each other, showing affection all the time. It was really great, but I still felt something was wrong. There was a slight resistance from her, and she kept telling me that she didn't think I was being sincere and that my change of heart wouldn't last and kept telling her it was real for me and that would be the end of it. 

The texting started getting heavy at the very end of October/ beginning of November, and carried through till I found out what was going on last Friday. there was a couple periods of 8-10 days that they didn't text each other mixed in, which I find weird, but what do I know at this point. There were no phone calls, which is consistent with what she's told me. This whole thing feels to me like a cry for attention. I guess what I struggle with is how far it actually went, and how far would it have gone if I didn't find out? I want to get over this, I love her. I think our relationship could be stronger if we can get past this (or should I say, if I can get past this). I just feel really hurt and betrayed, and it sucks really bad.


----------



## sadcalifornian

CGguy said:


> I guess what I struggle with is how far it actually went, and how far would it have gone if I didn't find out?


Demand polygraph.


----------



## working_together

MrK said:


> One more and I'll leave you alone.
> 
> So, your wife is along for the ride while her friend trolls for strange at meat markets. How sweet. And what does she do once the friend hits her target? Sits in a corner booth and nurses her drink alone? And what do the friends of the lucky guy do while this is going on? Look up "wingman" (wingWOMAN is still a little too new) and see what the roll is. Like it or not, your wife was a textbook wingwoman.
> 
> And my wife wasn't the type to hook up at bars either. Start a thread about people who got burned because "it wasn't her style".
> 
> And read this. It was originally posted here as a dig against religious girls w.h.o.r.i.n.g around, but ignore that aspect and focus on the behavior. I read your other thread. She kept asking for "space" while all this was going on, wasn't she?
> 
> Girls Night Out - By Riki Stein | Unpious.com


Spot on here.

We're not trying to make you paranoid, but just keep your eyes open. The whole thing about it not being your "wife's style" is a bit of denial IMO. Ask my husband how I was before my affair...he'd never believe in a million years I would be so heartless and almost destroy a marriage.....yeah, I WAS a good girl for sure.


----------



## working_together

CGguy said:


> Oh I don't doubt that she talks to her friend about our current marriage, and that she was aware that my wife was texting this man. They have been best friends for like 15 years. My wife says her friend was aware that they were contacting each other as friends, and neither of them saw a problem with this because my wife and him were just friends (who, by the way hadn't spoken to each other in 7 or 8 years, which is when I met him).
> 
> Most times my wife will not drink, or only have one or two glasses of wine. She ends up driving her friend around while she drinks usually.
> 
> Like I said, she has agreed to not be in contact with this guy "friend" whatsoever from here on out, and she's said no more 1 on 1 girl night outs with this friend. I told her last night the way her friend is acting right now is toxic to our marriage and I don't want her to be a part of it.


I'm not so worried about this guy.....it's the next I'm more worried about.


----------



## Dadof3

CGguy said:


> _*The space thing did come up at the peak of our troubles a couple months ago. She said she needed time to think about what her needs were, and then decided that she did want to work things out with me about 6 weeks ago. The relationship has been really good in that period, sex life coming back, we were being super nice to each other, showing affection all the time. It was really great, but I still felt something was wrong.*_ There was a slight resistance from her, and she kept telling me that she didn't think I was being sincere and that my change of heart wouldn't last and kept telling her it was real for me and that would be the end of it.
> 
> The texting started getting heavy at the very end of October/ beginning of November, and carried through till I found out what was going on last Friday. there was a couple periods of 8-10 days that they didn't text each other mixed in, which I find weird, but what do I know at this point. There were no phone calls, which is consistent with what she's told me. This whole thing feels to me like a cry for attention. I guess what I struggle with is how far it actually went, and how far would it have gone if I didn't find out? I want to get over this, I love her. I think our relationship could be stronger if we can get past this (or should I say, if I can get past this). I just feel really hurt and betrayed, and it sucks really bad.


CG: There is a variation with cheaters, that when they decide to go "deeper" with their affair - and keep in mind - even when only emotionally involved - they will force themselves back into the marriage and do MORE than they normally do to compensate. I think the variation is usually present when there is something physical happening with the OM and they don't want you catching on, so they double their efforts with you to keep you tired, dumb, and happy. 

The bolded area above highlights that RED flag and your W fits the typically pattern of an unfaithful spouse. I know you want to believe, as many here before have believed, until somehow it all came out later. 

Its your marriage, your wife, your life. Do what you think you need to do. We are just warning you that 99.8% of cheating relationships follow a typical script. Every betrayed spouse initially thinks their spouse is special, unique, doesn't have the ability, time, or heart to cheat on them.

Maybe your wife is part of the .2% that hasn't. We want you to be armed with the truth to control your destiny. 

Good luck!


----------



## Shaggy

So when they hang out and the single friend is meeting guys etc, what does your wife do? Sit on a barstool sipping her drink alone? You know she isn't sitting there alone.

Married women shoud not be wingmen for single fiends who are out hunting new men. There isno way that they are only gonna sit back and not play too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

scanned this thread quickly

what kind of phone does she have?

some phones you can retrieve deleted texts


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Why haven't you given her the "me or her" ultimatum regarding the toxic friend? 

*contingency disclaimer* Hope I dont need this but....stop yourself before you say you shouldnt have to, you dont want to be that kinda husband... and start spewing about trusting her and swallowing her "controlling, telling me who I can be friends with" garbage... That would be a sh*t justification for not taking action for fear of your wife's choice. This person is toxic, poison, cancer. She is a direct threat to your marriage. 

Clear and present danger. Cuban Missle crisis, NUKES moving in next door.... Terrorist boarding your plane...


----------



## CGguy

Yeah, I get that. There has been a couple nights in the last couple months that I have questioned her about periodically to see if she slipped up. She seems right on point with her responses. 
She is in agreement that the late nights out with this friend, alone, while her friend is trolling for guys needs to stop. I made that clear. 
And I agree, a married woman cannot be a wingwomen. We'll see what happens. I sent her a last ditch email today to give her an opportunity to come clean with anything she thought I should know. Her story hasn't changed. 2 months, all texts, talked about getting together a couple times as a group for drinks but it never worked out. She is going to send a NC letter, delete his contact from facebook and phone. Those were my stipulations. I will be on guard for a while, we'll see what happens.


----------



## CGguy

Also, thanks for all the input. It has definitely given me an idea of what to look for. I hope this will just be a blip on the radar.


----------



## Almostrecovered

what kind of phone?


----------



## CGguy

droid X


----------



## Almostrecovered

that has an sd card

How to Retrieve Deleted Text Messages from Mobile Phone SD Card?


----------



## turnera

You need to have her give YOU the NC letter so you can read it and make sure it feels legitimate (and that she actually did it); then YOU send it to him.


----------



## CGguy

looks like I need a reader for it to work. You can't just plug the phone in and run the software.


----------



## Almostrecovered

CGguy said:


> looks like I need a reader for it to work. You can't just plug the phone in and run the software.


can get them fairly cheap online for $20


----------



## CGguy

looks like they even have them at walmart. and the software has a trial version. interesting. might be worth taking a look. probably won't like what I see, but at least I'll know for sure.


----------



## Almostrecovered

here's hoping it isn't dday two for you


----------



## braehead

Quote from Cali_hope:

"You did good but I would have added that your wife to tell newly divorced friend to find 'single' wingwomen to go hunting with, no ladies night with single women. Now if the friends divorce was caused by her infidelity - no contact with your wife as she will be toxic to your marriage."

I have to quote Cali_hope above, as I think that response is right on the money. She cannot go barhopping with a single gal, and not expect to face temptations. If she did all that, and no one else found her attractive enough to strike up a conversation that would be another issue, but chances are, other guys will find her attractive. Very few people can handle that kind of pressure without 'giving it a thought'.

One other thing to remember too, is that if she is indeed having an emotional affair, a soul tie is already formed. She will have to break that tie! One sure way to help this process is for her to break all contacts with him of her own volition, not just because you demand it! She must do it for you and for her marriage. That is crucial!

all the best to you both,

braehead


----------



## CGguy

Thanks brae. She will tell her friend, they talk about everything. She is telling me with 100% certainty that her and OG never talked on the phone or met. It was mostly done because he thinks shes funny and smart, and that made her feel good because her self esteem was crap. Even though I was telling her these things all the time, but I guess I'm supposed to right so it doesn't matter as much apparently. I'm on the fence about it, but would like to believe her. 

Her friend was not - non faithful to my knowledge. Her husband was an a-hole. I saw that first hand. But her friend is partying like she's in college again and I don't want my wife to get dragged into that more than she already has been. It would be different if I was going too. Which I told her that. She seems okay with it, so that is a start. She knows she screwed up big time. She's told me that. Know it is time for her to prove to me that she can be trusted again, and its' up to me to find if I can trust her again. But I definitely want to try.


----------



## TRy

CGguy said:


> wife was going to ask if he'd want to hang out with them, and her friend replyed 'cool' basically. But, her justification of that is that they would not have been out alone, and that they are just friends. I just wish she never hid the friendship, maybe I would be a little jealous, but there wouldn't be this feeling of betrayal. That is where she went wrong in this whole thing.


Where she went wrong was that she should have asked her husband and not another man to hang out with her.


----------



## MrK

CGguy said:


> It would be different if I was going too. Which I told her that. She seems okay with it, so that is a start.


Let us know when she asks you to go barhopping with her. We'll want to hear how the night goes. See if you get the same rush out of it she does. 

What's that, Dexter? You don't think she'll ask? Yeah, you're probably right. It's no fun when the cat's around...


----------



## Dadof3

MrK said:


> Let us know when she asks you to go barhopping with her. We'll want to hear how the night goes. See if you get the same rush out of it she does.
> 
> What's that, Dexter? You don't think she'll ask? Yeah, you're probably right. It's no fun _when the *cat's* around_...


MrK, are you borrowing from the saying "when the dogs are away, the cats will play"? if so, I think u mean dog. *ARF!*


----------



## MrK

Dadof3 said:


> MrK, are you borrowing from the saying "when the dogs are away, the cats will play"? if so, I think u mean dog. *ARF!*


Never heard that one. 

If the cat is away, the mice will play.


----------



## Dadof3

I stand corrected MrK!


----------



## CGguy

Well, I have an update for everyone. My wife and I have made small strides since my original posts. I did find out through reading some emails between her and her best friend that she did have feelings for the other guy at the time, which she conveniently left out when I found out that she was going behind my back to text this guy. Basically she flat out lied to me before, but copped to it immediately when I told her I read the email. She told me there was feelings but they never played out even in the texts. Mostly the feelings were on her end, because he was giving her the attention I was not in the last 6 months. And she said that she just couldn't stop when we decided to really work on things a couple months ago because she got used to talking with him. In the same email she said she was very confused because she still loved me, but the friend seemed to almost encourage her to split up with me. I also learned through the emails that it was only texting and they never met, which was a relief. She has since told me she will do anything to repair our relationship, besides dump the best friend. She has texted him to tell him they can't talk anymore, dropped his contact info. and from facebook. She's also agreed to no more late night drinking outings with her friend. She does seem to really want to get through this. I'm just still having a hard time with it. Not because of the texts, but because of her feelings behind the texts. 

I would say I'm still pretty pissed off at her. I haven't really gotten over it yet, at least not fully. And I'm still really pissed off at her friend. I find her friend to be a disgusting pig really. I used to call her my friend too. Honestly I'd like to kick her in the box, but I'll just put a fake happy smile on for now I guess. 

What do you guys think? I really love this woman, but I'm having a hard time not wanting to just blow up. Oh one other thing she said in the email to the friend after getting caught: "I don't know what to do, I feel as though everyone will look at me like a cheater if I leave him", and "I don't even know if "the OG" feels the same way about me". Now this email I read was a few days after I found out (12/17). So some time has gone by, and she does seem to want to work on things, I guess I'm just still a little scheptical. Especially since I gave her the option many times to tell me exactly what was going on, and she still decided to leave things out so as not "to hurt me".


----------



## turnera

Is she handing over her phone/computer when you ask to see them? Have you set up appointments for a therapist?


----------



## turnera

And I see nothing wrong with flat out telling her friend 'you aren't a friend of our marriage so know that I will be aware of your actions.'


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Sounds all too familiar.

You might want to suggest (not demand) that her contact with her enabling friend be curtailed or that your relationship should be off limits or whatever. That friend helped her cross some serious boundaries... and, frankly, you're not particularly obligated to be anything but (politely) cold toward her in the future.

As for your feelings, as cliched as it sounds, it's a "time will tell" kinda thing. How many of us have heard "We were just friends" proceed to "It's just a crush" and then, for the real unlucky folk, proceeding to sleeping together or leaving or whatever, you know? We're right there with you... it sounds like you're doing fine.


----------



## CGguy

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Sounds all too familiar.
> 
> You might want to suggest (not demand) that her contact with her enabling friend be curtailed or that your relationship should be off limits or whatever. That friend helped her cross some serious boundaries... and, frankly, you're not particularly obligated to be anything but (politely) cold toward her in the future.
> 
> As for your feelings, as cliched as it sounds, it's a "time will tell" kinda thing. How many of us have heard "We were just friends" proceed to "It's just a crush" and then, for the real unlucky folk, proceeding to sleeping together or leaving or whatever, you know? We're right there with you... it sounds like you're doing fine.


Not sure if fine is the right word but time will tell like you said. I've told her that I'm not sure I can be nice to her friend now. She just keeps saying she didnt do anything to sway her, which is bs cause i read everything. My wife tells me not to be mad at her friend for something she did. I think honestly at this point i am just as mad at her friend. I have every right not to forgive her, shes not family, you know. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the next little while. We'll see if she's really being sincere with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

turnera said:


> Is she handing over her phone/computer when you ask to see them? Have you set up appointments for a therapist?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

She said i could look at everything whenever i wanted. She understands the trust has been broken. We havent set up an appt. Yet. Probably time. I was going to talk to her about it tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Well, you know. RELATIVELY fine.


----------



## Beowulf

CGguy said:


> Not sure if fine is the right word but time will tell like you said. I've told her that I'm not sure I can be nice to her friend now. She just keeps saying she didnt do anything to sway her, which is bs cause i read everything. My wife tells me not to be mad at her friend for something she did. I think honestly at this point i am just as mad at her friend. I have every right not to forgive her, shes not family, you know. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the next little while. We'll see if she's really being sincere with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would insist that you both inform this toxic friend together that she is history. Then forbid your wife from having any contact with her at all. She is an enabler and an enemy of the marriage and should be treated as such.


----------



## Chaparral

CGguy said:


> Not sure if fine is the right word but time will tell like you said. I've told her that I'm not sure I can be nice to her friend now. She just keeps saying she didnt do anything to sway her, which is bs cause i read everything. My wife tells me not to be mad at her friend for something she did. I think honestly at this point i am just as mad at her friend. I have every right not to forgive her, shes not family, you know. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the next little while. We'll see if she's really being sincere with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you point out that you knew that her friend threw you under the bus and said she should divorce you. By not pointing this out you were both being dishonest.

If you kept this under your hat to protect your sources, thats understandable. But, other wise if you hear rug sweeping you should point it out.


----------



## TallE

CGguy said:


> The texting started getting heavy at the very end of October/ beginning of November, and carried through till I found out what was going on last Friday. there was a couple periods of 8-10 days that they didn't text each other mixed in, which I find weird, but what do I know at this point.


\

Not to resurrect the past but when the texting suddenly stops and restarts, isn't that a signal that they are together? Can someone else with experience with this comment?

Edit: sorry, I take it back, after re-reading I realized that I misunderstood the original comment. I thought that there was a period of 8 - 10 days where sometimes the texting would stop. I realize now that the texting stopped completely for 8 - 10 days. Which still seems strange, but clearly it does not mean that they met.

Sorry, please hold your fire! lol


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> Not sure if fine is the right word but time will tell like you said. I've told her that I'm not sure I can be nice to her friend now. She just keeps saying she didnt do anything to sway her, which is bs cause i read everything. My wife tells me not to be mad at her friend for something she did. I think honestly at this point i am just as mad at her friend. I have every right not to forgive her, shes not family, you know. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the next little while. We'll see if she's really being sincere with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You missed a valuable opportunity to start being honest with your wife and expecting HER to be honest. Show her what you know about friend, and ask her to defend remaining friends with her. And, if she refuses, tell her that she is disrespecting you and that, if she wants to keep the marriage, she will choose you over this toxic friend.

This is a case of you not manning up. Right back down that slope to doormat.


----------



## GROWNMAN23

My opinion is this site can be a good and a bad thing for marriages. So much insightful info but at times, info I would rather not know. 

No disrespect to women, but most will take lie's to the GRAVE!!! At this point the only thing that matters is what your heart feels. If you believe that she is telling the truth, then you must try to put in the past. If you think that she meet up with the OG then you need to think about your next move in your marriage.

There are no easy answers but I wish you and you Family the best of luck.


----------



## CGguy

Hi everyone. I wish I could say I was glad to be back on here, but alas, I am in need of some more advice. Since January, I went through a couple months of hell. Mostly inside my head. Playing everything over and over. Losing sleep, stressing out etc. I slowly started to feel better. Not fully trusting her yet but working on it. Her attitude towards me improved dramatically. She was very patient with me during my recovery and I honestly felt she was ashamed of her actions and did make the effort to gain my trust back. After many talks I do believe this "relationship" never got past text msg's. But I did know there was some feelings there, at least on her part, however little they were. Definitely more than friends, which is what she kept telling me these feelings were. Fast forward to today. I found out that she has been contacting him again. This time through email so there was no trace of their communication. Ugh, I'm so dejected. Just when I thought my duties of detective were over and I let my guard down she burns me again. Over the last month I felt a change in her attitude towards me again. Distant, even from my daughter (her step daughter). I started having nightmares again and started asking her if everything was okay. Which I always got the "of course". Well, while she was upstairs getting ready for a meeting tonight I scoped out her phone. She and her Friend (yes the same one that perpetuated this relationship before) had a long back and forth conversation about him, and how guilty my wife feels. To sum the conversation up, she was telling her how she's an awful person, she has feelings for this kid, she'd be ashamed if her mother/family found out that this is the reason we split up. That pretty much sums it up. At least from what I remember now. I'm crushed. It feels like I'm right back at square one except this time I'm a little less suprised and a little more pist. How could she do this again? Where do I go from here? She wants to talk tonight when she gets home. She says she's still in love with me, but confused. Reading this conversation between her and her friend it doesn't sound like she's confused. I'm so alone in this. I need some good advice. Please help.


----------



## sandc

File for divorce. When she gets the papers she will know how pissed you are. Then you can either give her one more chance or dump her and find someone who deserves you. She obviously can't control herself. Find a woman who can.


----------



## CGguy

I get what you're saying. We are going to talk tonight. I feel much different about finding out this time around. More pissed than hurt. I still love her, but maybe I'm resigning to the fact I just can't make her happy. I don't know. She comes home in a couple hours. I'm at a loss as to what to say to her.


----------



## workindad

In my mind, sandc nailed it. Filing will give you the option of either trying to reconcile one more time with a spouse who clearly gets how serious you are taking this. 

It also provides you with a means to an end if you are ready for that step as well.

Good Luck
WD


----------



## CGguy

Yeah, I guess I'm just nervous she'll say ok to the divorce. But when I think about it, if she's willing to say yes to it then she doesn't want to be with me anyhow. I think I'm going to make it real simple for her tonight. Either you want to be in this marriage or not. No "I'm confused", or "I don't know", or "I need time to think". I'm sick of that bs. This is the second time she's done this to me. Either she's in or out. If I don't get an emphatic "yes", then I'll go file papers on monday. I don't want to find out 2-3 years from now that I put up with this crap for nothing. 

Do you guys think I'm approaching this right? 

Thanks for all your help. I wish I could say all the people that said to me back in January that this would happen again were wrong.


----------



## MattMatt

What to do? Why... she answered your own question, right here!


> To sum the conversation up, she was telling her how she's an awful person, she has feelings for this kid, she'd be ashamed if her mother/family found out that this is the reason we split up.


Then... why not go for it? Out her. Make her nightmare come true.


----------



## Shaggy

Expose expose expose


----------



## Harken Banks

mrbeats said:


> "Limiting" spouses in my opinion can have negative impacts in the long term.. Just my 2 cents


My wife and I had a therapist who said things like that. If my marriage fails, I will consider this bit of professional advice to have been a contributing factor. It did not fit our values and validated at a critical time wayward behavior that we both now recognize as out of the bounds we would set for each other and for our marriage. The partners in each marriage should have an understanding as to where the boundaries and commit to defend them, the marriage, and each other. I know people who swing. Nothing wrong with it, but not for me. I don't see much of any room for flirting outside any committed relationship that I would be in.


----------



## Jibril

CGguy said:


> Yeah, I guess I'm just nervous she'll say ok to the divorce. But when I think about it, if she's willing to say yes to it then she doesn't want to be with me anyhow. I think I'm going to make it real simple for her tonight. Either you want to be in this marriage or not. No "I'm confused", or "I don't know", or "I need time to think". I'm sick of that bs. This is the second time she's done this to me. Either she's in or out. If I don't get an emphatic "yes", then I'll go file papers on monday. I don't want to find out 2-3 years from now that I put up with this crap for nothing.
> 
> Do you guys think I'm approaching this right?
> 
> Thanks for all your help. I wish I could say all the people that said to me back in January that this would happen again were wrong.


Yes. You need to take a hard stand. You were much too soft a few months ago. Looking back at earlier posts, you were urged, by various posters, to issue an ultimatum - her friendship or her marriage. You refused to push the issue, allowing her to remain friends with her she-viper friend. And now you're right back where you started.

Tell your wife, _in no uncertain terms_ that *you are filing for divorce on Monday*. If she wants to work it out with you, she has until the divorce is finalized to prove she's worth staying married to.

Then, you go Monday morning and *file for divorce*. Period. Do it if she refuses to work with you. Do it if she _does_ decide to work with you.

Listen to MattMatt and Shaggy too - expose this affair to everyone she cares about. Your family, her family, everyone. Tell them she's a lying cheat. Give them a copy of the e-mail/texts. Drop that bomb, and don't look back.

You need to be harsh, because this woman is jeopardizing your marriage and your potential future. *Take **charge*.


----------



## the guy

You are on the right path, You've put up with alot. Commit to the D, fill, have her served and you will feel a huge wieght lifted off you. Then its all up to her to turn the corner before it finalized.

Just make sure you stay dark and expose this with out her knowledge, tell her family you want there support but you need to head in this direction since her behavior continues. Do this on the day she gets served.

Remember it all about damage control now.


----------



## the guy

Brother sorry this is so painful but as you can see it is time for some drastic action that will solidify the consequences you have only talked about for the past year.
Chance were given and boundries were set, only to be thrown away by her.

I'm curious to see if she talks you out of it tonight! I personaly would go dark and file with confronting her about the new information. Why to say the same thing over again.

Enough talking ....time to act....keep her in the dark.


----------



## CGguy

Re-reading my previous post there is something I left out. Exactly a month ago, I saw a picture on facebook of the OG and the Best Friend at a bar together. My wife was with her. I confronted her about it the next day when I saw the picture when I checked my facebook page. She immediately said she was going to tell me he was there and that they did have a brief conversation, which led to him sending her a text saying "it was good to see you tonight". I told her he was fishing for a reply. She said she didn't send one. Tonight, she admits she emailed him a response the next day. Burn, Burn, Burn, lie, lie, lie. I'm so sick of feeling like garbage. Just when I start to trust again, bam, right back in my face again. I guarantee she'll downplay this relationship again like she did the first time. There are a two of her friends that knew about what happened back in January. According to her, "They thought it was no big deal". In other words. I'm blowing it out of proportion and being a controlling husband. I can tell you, I never had jealous thoughts before January. Since then. It's all I can do to wonder what she's doing and who's she's talking to. It's exhausting.


----------



## crazyconfused

If it were me, I would grab my kid and get out of there for the weekend. Let her fret and stew about what your doing. Just tell her that you need some space, that's it. Tomorrow I would out her to everyone. She will of course flip, ignore her texts and calls. Monday file for divorce. With papers in hand, have your talk with her. Then a the cards will be in your hands
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

the guy said:


> I'm curious to see if she talks you out of it tonight! I personaly would go dark and file with confronting her about the new information. Why to say the same thing over again.
> 
> Enough talking ....time to act....keep her in the dark.


I'm not going to keep her in the dark. I'm just not that type of person. I'm not good at keeping secrets, never have been. I'm going to be up front with her tonight. I'm not going to give her an out this time. Like I said, I want a "yes, I still want to be married to you and won't hurt you like this again" or I'm filing on monday. I'm also going to tell her that if I find out she's talks to him again we're through. And I won't give her the heads up next time.


----------



## Jibril

Here's the thing, CGguy. You cannot "_control_" people, as your wife is claiming. Unless you are physically forcing them to do something, they are always free to make their choices and act on them. Your wife is no exception.

What you _can_ control is _yourself_, and what you are and _are not_ willing to tolerate from the person you intend to spend your time with.

In this case, you are not willing to tolerate her enabling, toxic friends, her emotional affair with another man, and most grievously, _her constant lying_. So, you will move on. 

And that's all there is to it. She can either agree with you, and change for the better, or she can continue to do what she is doing. But she will do it alone and on her own dollar, because you will be moving on.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

CGguy, just let her go.


----------



## the guy

So you confronted her again and yet you know her true feeling with regard to the text between her friend! You make no mention of divorce and yet you expect a change in her.

She knows damb well how much this hurt you! She made that very clear, yet no talk of divorce. 

I guess your not ready to let her go?

Btw she can down play it all she want you have the proof of what is really going on ...why else is she admitting guilt to her friend...why else is she admitting shame with her parents?

It is what it is and you *now* know that you are only trying to control and protect your marriage with some one that doesn't respect the marriage.

You can't control her but you can control what you will tolorate.

For the life of me I can't figure out why a women with such a fragile marriage is going out with the girls only months after she almost lost her marriage.

Dude she doesn't get it b/c you keep tolorating her lack to affair proof her marriage!


----------



## the guy

I can respect not wanting to go dark. it just that I feel for you brother and the pain you are going through. Even though it been 2-1/2 years since my confrontation I will never forget the pain.

I just see you taking so much crap brother in a plan that isn't working but best of luck and this time around it sound like you are willing to let her go.

Be prepared she may feel like she is not worthy of you and is to weak to make any promises.

I hope you have an effective d-day #2 or #3 and she realizes that you are truely at the end of your rope.

Again brother actions speak louder then words. So good luck with your words and I pray you don't have to take the action needed to show her the *real* conseguences.

Do you already have a lawyer in mind or will you start looking Monday?


----------



## Shaggy

I think it's time to put D on the table unless:

1. truly NC
2. full completely open book
3. she takes a polygraph
4. girls nights out at the bar are over for good. you go with her or she doesn't go.


----------



## Will_Kane

Back in December your wife told you there were no feelings, just harmless texting, then several days later she told her toxic friend that she was worried about what people would think about her if she left you for the other man and she wasn't even sure that other man felt the same way. She was in love with him back then and you swept it under the rug.

Now you have discovered your wife is telling her toxic friend the same thing - that she would like to leave you but is worried about what people will think of her.

I can just about guarantee you that your wife has since begun having sex with this guy.

The first thing you need to find out, before you do anything else, is the truth. Cheaters lie. You just found that out the hard way. Your wife is a cheater. Assume that everything your wife says about the affair is a lie. If she says they met once, they probably met 20 times. If she says they just held hands and kissed, they probably had sex. So, unless your wife basically confesses to having had sex with other man 20 times, you will not be able to believe her. It very well may be that she did not have sex with him - it is theoretically possible, but it is not believable.

Unless your wife basically confesses to having had sex with other man 20 times, *you will probably have to ask her to take a polygraph to get to the truth*. You have said in past posts that if you had to monitor your wife a lot, you weren't up for it and would rather divorce. Well, it looks like you're there now.

Despite all the advice you received here the last time you posted, you ignored key portions of it and now you are paying the price. If you want to do this thing, get your wife back and save your marriage, there is no guarantee. But *you have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.* You have to be willing to walk away from it if your wife does not agree to act like a wife should - that is, to remain faithful to her husband.

*So, your first step is to expose the affair to the other man's girlfriend*. Contact her by phone if possible, tell her that your wife has been having an affair with her boyfriend, and tell her what you know about it - at a minimum, that your wife is considering leaving you for him except that she is worried what people would think of her if she did. Ask the other man's girlfriend to help you put an end to the affair and monitor it from her end. DO NOT tell your wife you are exposing the affair.

*Next, expose the affair to your wife's family, your family and all of your and her close friends*. Make a brief phone call to each of them, tell them your wife is having an affair, tell them with whom, and tell them she is considering leaving you for him and ask them to support your marriage.

*Do not call the other man. Do not call the toxic friend.* If they call you, ignore them. Anything you say to them, they will use against you. You have more to lose by disclosing your intentions to them than you have to gain by listening to what likely will be a bunch of lies from them.

*Your wife will be furious that you exposed the affair.* She will tell you that she was thinking of reconciling with you, but now there is no chance. That is bull. She was cheating on you in December and she has continued to do so until the present day. The only time she has stopped is when you have caught her, and then it only stopped briefly. *She likely will storm out of the house and go to her toxic friend's house or, if she can, to the other man's house. But she will be back*. 

When your wife blows up at you for exposing the affair, tell her that everything you are doing, you are doing to fight for her, for your marriage, and for your family.

*The other man likely is interested in your wife only for sex. Your wife feels like she is in love with the other man.* He is a fantasy you can't compete with. When he sees her and commumicates with her, he always looks his best and acts his best. Just like when you were dating your wife. With him, it's all lovey-dovey talk, sex talk, I love you talk, I can't wait to have sex with you talk - no responsibilities, no cleaning, no cooking, no taking care of kids like it is with you. 

She has the "butterflies-in-the-stomach" feeling with him, like she used to have with you before it wore off, as it does in every long-term relationship. She is mistaking that feeling for being "in love," what you would probably just call a "crush" or "infatuation." If she is deep in the fog, she may even believe he is her "soul mate." 

You cannot compete with this - the only way you can save your marriage is to end the affair, and the fastest way to do that is to expose the affair. When everyone knows, your wife will be ashamed and the affair will not seem like so much fun anymore. Only after the affair ends and your wife has no contact with the other man for at least a few weeks will her feelings for you start to return. And there are no guarantees. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

*Exposure is your best hope to save your marriage*. Hopefully, other man throws your wife under the bus to save his own relationship and your wife's family's disapproval and influence help her to give up the other man and return to the marriage.

When you confront your wife, demand the truth. Do not believe that they did not meet up and have sex many times already. She did not carry on an affair with deep feelings for the other man for this long, and he only lives 25 minutes away, without meeting up to have sex, especially given that they have a cheering section in the toxic friend, who would like a newly-divorced friend to go guy-hunting with in the meat market clubs. If you get anything less than that, although it theoretically could be true, I don't see how you could believe it at this point. I think you would need your wife to take a polygraph to put your mind at ease.

*Transparency, no contact letter *and the other things that you botched the first time around have to be re-done. I would suggest she give up her cell phone, computer, email accounts, and facebook for at least a few months while she earns back your trust.

I'm not sure this is worth fighting for or saving. It will be a lot of hard work on your part and you don't seem up to it. Even if you are up to it, maybe your wife is not.

We're all on your side, no matter what you choose.


----------



## the guy

@ shaggy tonight OP will get the same lip service as before. I suspect that OP will be heading to the lawyers on Monday. If not this Monday some Monday soon.....

Face it he tried...she tried...but she just could not affair proof the marriage.


----------



## Will_Kane

If you are upfront with your wife and ask her to tell you the truth, either pick you or the other man, she will tell you she picks you and then still continue to cheat on you with the other man. 

Re-read your own posts. 

Your wife likes having you as her husband and she is worried about being labeled a cheater and what people will say about her leaving you for just a "kid" (?). Her plan is to have the best of both worlds - you as a front of respectability, financial support, and a stable environment for her and her daughter, and the other man for sex and excitement.

She will lie to you in a minute that she wants you and will end contact. She knows that you don't want to be bothered monitoring her, so it will be easy for her to continue cheating. Plus, she has a couple of toxic friends who are ready to cover for her at a moment's notice.

As far as being called controlling, tell your wife this: I cannot control you, I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in our marriage, and how I react to your actions. And, from now on, I am not willing to accept your constant lies and cheating. I am not willing to accept you remaining in contact with girlfriends who help you to lie to me and cheat on me and then convince you that it's no big deal that you are doing so. If you don't accept my conditions, I will file for divorce and you can go live happily ever after with your toxic girlfriends and the other man.


----------



## the guy

Thats another thing those toxic friend. I mean when WW is willing to save her marriage and by doing this requires her to make a life style change and affair proof the marriage then those toxic friends have to go.

It worked for my fWW.


----------



## turnera

I'm sorry it happened, but that's what happens when you don't set up HIGH HUGH boundaries for a cheater.

Move on, file for divorce, and move out. Maybe in a year or two when she realizes her fantasies aren't all that, she will be back hat in hand. Until you see that humility, RUN.


----------



## OldWolf57

CGguy said:


> Well, In the same email she said she was very confused because she still loved me, but the friend seemed to almost encourage her to split up with me.
> 
> She has since told me she will do anything to repair our relationship, besides dump the best friend.
> 
> "I don't know what to do, I feel as though everyone will look at me like a cheater if I leave him", and "I don't even know if "the OG" feels the same way about me".


Are you reading this Dude ?? No more 1 on 1 GNO so they got another chick. And to get back at you, they bring him long an post the pic knowing you checkup on her. She promised not to do anything like this again. Well she lied even after seeing how much pain it cost you. AND, she was even thinking of leaving you!! but didn't know how he felt. That means you are the backup. 
It's manup time dude. Your daughter don't need a cheater as an example in her life. This chick WILL cheat because she wants what her friends have. FREEDOM to hookup. But she wants your security too.

So now you have to give her consequences if you want to R. FRIENDS are gone, period. You acted as if you was afraid to lose her before, well if you can live with a cheating wife, I guess us telling you these things won't matter.
The fact that they posted the pic knowing you will be checking, tell you how much they respect you and the marriage. Her, telling you they don't see anything wrong with the friendship, is telling you she values their opinion over yours.
Basically, I don't see what you have to talk about anymore, except how to split things up. Its not even about you anymore, its about getting this woman from around your child. Where she go, her friends go, and they are not liking you controlling their lil hunting parties, so I would not trust any of them around my child. Your job now is to expose the s***t on your way to a lawyer. Her friends want her to be in like old times and they are not ever going to be a friend to your marriage.

How many more chances are you going to give this woman to hurt you ??


----------



## daggeredheart

sigma1299 said:


> You totally did the right thing, but it still remains to be seen if you did enough of it.
> 
> Take it very very seriously. Long story short, I had a two month EA with an old high school GF I hadn't heard from in 22 years. We went from "Hi" to "I love you" in 10 days!! We never laid eyes on each other through the whole EA, but in that time she asked me to marry her and said several times she would leave for me.
> 
> ***I know you shared your story before and my husband did the exact same thing except with a girl he never knew in real life who was much younger- so your postings all resonate with me and give me insight in to what he was processing in his brain during the short EA
> 
> 
> *Can you expand a bit more on how that "I love you feeling" grew so quickly...and looking back at it..do you still think it was love or do you feel it was just infatuation?
> 
> 
> 
> Be aware that emotional affairs are very hard to kill and your wife will struggle with it - badly. *
> 
> **Are you basing that on the dopamine reaction in the brain? Our counselor did say it's like replacing the word EA with heroin. I've never been in a EA while married so the only thing I can compare to is the new stages of dating?
> 
> I would be curious as to how you "unwound" from the addiction? How do you unplug from that obsession/infatuation. You sound like a smart man and I'm sure you knew all about the chemical reactions in the brain but knowing that doesn't make the withdrawal process easier does it?
> 
> Is there hope for all of us BS who long for the day when our WS can look back and say...."that wasn't love, that was just infatuation" Pipe dream I know but it would still feel good for them to realize that.


----------



## turnera

crazyconfused said:


> If it were me, I would grab my kid and get out of there for the weekend. Let her fret and stew about what your doing. Just tell her that you need some space, that's it. Tomorrow I would out her to everyone. She will of course flip, ignore her texts and calls. Monday file for divorce. With papers in hand, have your talk with her. Then a the cards will be in your hands
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 *THIS* is how you handle a two-time cheater. Nothing else will EVER register with her.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Everyday I'm more and more thankful that my lying cheating ex left me without having to go through false reconciliation(s).


----------



## Acabado

You tell.


> After many talks I do believe this "relationship" never got past text msg's


Her toxic friends tell.


> In other words. I'm blowing it out of proportion and being a controlling husband.


Your wife tells.


> she was telling her how she's an awful person, she has feelings for this kid, she'd be ashamed if her mother/family found out that this is the reason we split up.


I don't buy for a minute it's not a phisical affair. After January hell she won''t risk the split, the family shame for a crush. She's been physical with OM. NO doubt.


----------



## OldWolf57

CGguy said:


> I guarantee she'll downplay this relationship again like she did the first time. There are a two of her friends that knew about what happened back in January. According to her, "They thought it was no big deal". In other words. I'm blowing it out of proportion and being a controlling husband. I can tell you, I never had jealous thoughts before January. Since then. It's all I can do to wonder what she's doing and who's she's talking to. It's exhausting.


It can't be too exhausting, you saw the pic a month ago, but it took finding the emails to send you back here. Look, she is still thinking of leaving, it's she just don't want her family to know she is a cheater. Well ok, since you seem to still want to put up with this woman, then make her expose it to her family. Make he rtell them she has caused trouble in her marriage, by hanging out with those women and in an EA with a younger man.

My x came to me and said she caught feeling for a guy, and they had sex. NOTICE I said X. There are LOTS of grey areas in my life, but never will it be with someone who say she is mine and I am hers. I have enough to deal with without that drama. And you take into account she has been distant not only from you, but you kid also. What is there to talk about. As long as she is friends with them, she is going to envy their lifestyle. Does her friend control her ?? YES, when she start spouting their words, she is no longer your wife. What is there to talk about. SHE LIED !! KNOWING what it did to yyou last time.


----------



## TBT

CGguy said:


> I guarantee she'll downplay this relationship again like she did the first time. There are a two of her friends that knew about what happened back in January. According to her, "They thought it was no big deal".


This has no bearing...she's not married to them.If you do stay with her then her toxic friends have got to go.


----------



## Beowulf

CG,

I remember your thread. You were advised to eliminate these toxic enablers from your wife's life and from your marriage. Now they have once again led your wife down this road. You were also advised to expose the affair so that she would feel the consequences of her actions and so you would have others that would help you to keep her on the right path. You chose to ignore that advice and I believe that is why you are once again back to the same place. If you decide to reconcile once again your wife needs to sit down with her family and (honest) friends and out herself. She also has to name these toxic friends to her family and say that they helped enable the affair. She also has to write a NC letter not only to this OM but also to these friends. You have to take charge here and do things that have proven successful before. You tried to take a short cut and look where it got you. Do it right this time or just end the marriage and find someone who wants to be with you.


----------



## lordmayhem

***shakes head sadly***

People have been trying to lead you down the right path CG, but you have to have the fortitude to do it. What is it going to take? Your WW getiing pregnant by this kid? An STD? Catching her banging OM in your bed? Being served with divorce papers at work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Beowulf said:


> CG,
> 
> I remember your thread. You were advised to eliminate these toxic enablers from your wife's life and from your marriage. Now they have once again led your wife down this road. You were also advised to expose the affair so that she would feel the consequences of her actions and so you would have others that would help you to keep her on the right path. You chose to ignore that advice and I believe that is why you are once again back to the same place. If you decide to reconcile once again your wife needs to sit down with her family and (honest) friends and out herself. She also has to name these toxic friends to her family and say that they helped enable the affair. She also has to write a NC letter not only to this OM but also to these friends. You have to take charge here and do things that have proven successful before. You tried to take a short cut and look where it got you. Do it right this time or just end the marriage and find someone who wants to be with you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

People get advices, but unfortunately they wont/unable to do the same. Its sad to see them back again.


----------



## warlock07

Wait she met him without you knowing about it. How are you sure that it isn't physical?


----------



## Machiavelli

warlock07 said:


> Wait she met him without you knowing about it. How are you sure that it isn't physical?


He doesn't, but we do.


----------



## TRy

CGguy said:


> I'm not going to keep her in the dark. I'm just not that type of person. I'm not good at keeping secrets, never have been. I'm going to be up front with her tonight. I'm not going to give her an out this time. Like I said, I want a "yes, I still want to be married to you and won't hurt you like this again" or I'm filing on monday. I'm also going to tell her that if I find out she's talks to him again we're through. And I won't give her the heads up next time.


 You are doing the right thing in laying down the law on this. 

The reality is that she has been talking about leaving you for months with both the other man (OM) and her toxic friend. The fact that she saw the OM at the bar with the toxic friend tells me that the toxic friend is encouraging her to leave you. Additionally, your wife told you a few months ago that she would do anything to work on the marraige, other than give up the toxic friend; that statement right there told you that you are no longer her first priority. As her husband you have a right to expect to be her first priority. Another thing. If the OM had strong enough feelings for your wife to commit to her, it appears from what she has said that she would leave you for him. Not only are you no longer her first priory, you are her back up plan. Going forward you should not make someone your priority in life that does not treat you as her priority. 

You do not have children with her. You need to really reconsider staying in this marraige. If she wants you, she needs to fight for the marraige and show it. Dropping the toxic friend should be a requirement to showing you this. I know that you are afraid that if you require her to drop the toxic friend she will pick the toxic friend over you, but if she does, long term your marraige was over anyway. You are either first in her life or she should not be in your life.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Wait she met him without you knowing about it. How are you sure that it isn't physical?


I'm sure it was physical. She isn't considering leaving him for something untried.

I'm guessing last night's talk was very disappointing.


----------



## OldWolf57

Hopefully she chose her marriage, if not I hope he and his daughter are taking a wknd trip while she moves out.


----------



## Acabado

> If she wants you, she needs to fight for the marraige and show it. Dropping the toxic friend should be a requirement to showing you this


I would't do any requirement at this point. She already knows what he wants, he asked it time ago. It's the classical false R. I'd start moving on, as a matter of fact, by lawyering up, detaching completely and talking about the logistics. He has a child to care of. If she really is interested in fighting for the marriage there're tons of advice outhere. She knows damm well dropping toxic friend is a must. No need to lay the law anymore. I think exsposure to OM'sGF and ILs is necessary as you move on, just because you owe GF what's still going on in her life and ILs needs to know why you had to leave their daughter.

Sorry man. She's behaving like a spoiled teenager.


----------



## TDSC60

it really amazes me how husband can be so deep in a fog that they cannot figure out that the cheating wife has left the marriage. Emotionally she is gone. No respect for you or the marriage.

Lie after lie after lie and you keep accepting it.

Choosing toxic GF and OM over you and the marriage and you accept it, whine about it, and ask what you can do?

Nothing. She is gone and will not change.

Divorce and do not listen to her promises or fake remorse. She will tell you what you want to hear to keep you on the line - it's just more of the same lies.


----------



## Acabado

If there's actually any chance there, you need to leave. She need to see the reality of losing you, for a while. She needs to know there's no back up plan, she needs to see her parents reaction, she needs to be alone with her single GF to chase this fantasy. She needs to learn what's life with her husband nad step son. Tough love.
Is she going to snap out of this or she's far too gone? Who knows. The only way to find out is testing it.


----------



## OldWolf57

Go read Lostin513 thread dude, and get a clue this time.


----------



## CGguy

Hi again everyone. So as some of you have guessed, last night did not go to well for me. I know a lot of you are telling me tough love in this situation is the best option. It is just really hard to take that route. I love this woman and for all her fault in this situation she does love me and is a good person. I just think she's very confused. I agree that she is totally disrespecting me and our marriage. I told her that last night after she said she didn't think she could stop emailing him. And that was because she wasn't willing to give up her friendship, because that is all it is, a friendship. When I asked her flat out if she wants to be married to me still she told me she thinks it might be best to split because she doesn't know if she can go through trying to reconcile again. The work it will take. No matter what she says it is clear to me she holds some feelings for this other person, albeit the relationship has been "harmless" chitchat according to her. I do believe her in this case that whatever this is/was between them has not gone beyond friendship......yet. I think she is using him to feel better about herself, because her proffessional life has not taken off like mine and she resents me for it. She told me she's still in love with me, which is sending me major mixed signals. I know I"m going to get bashed here probably, but I really think its best to give this one last shot. With a councellors help this time. She has agreed to go, and again said she would not contact the OG while we were working on things. But I am not holding out much hope unfortunately. I honestly feel that if I don't give it a last shot at 100% I will regret it. Especially since there is an eleven year old girl involved who is going to be crushed. Last night was rough. No sleep. I havn't eaten anything for two days. I'm trying to keep busy but I'm crawling out of my own skin. Thanks for all your input guys. It feels good to write these things down. I know alot of you have been in similar situations and I appreciate the constructive feedback.


----------



## jnj express

I am sorry, but I have to strongly DISAGREE with you---give her what she wants---but make it a hard DOSE OF REALITY

All monies, in your name only, cut off her credit cards, tell her she now is responsible to pay for have of all bills----ALL bills, insurances, everything---tell her she is going to be removed from your medical, and you are taking her off as your beneficiary, on any policies---tell her she needs to make sure she makes enuff money working to pay all of these family bills.

Give her the dose of reality, let her see if life WITHOUT you, and life completely ON HER OWN, is really what she wants, and if this Disneyland friendship she has with this guy---is really worth losing her good/cushy/comfortable lifestyle, for.


----------



## Jibril

CGguy said:


> Hi again everyone. So as some of you have guessed, last night did not go to well for me. I know a lot of you are telling me tough love in this situation is the best option. It is just really hard to take that route. I love this woman and for all her fault in this situation she does love me and is a good person. *I just think she's very confused*. I agree that she is totally disrespecting me and our marriage. I told her that last night after she said she didn't think she could stop emailing him. *And that was because she wasn't willing to give up her friendship, because that is all it is, a friendship*. When I asked her flat out if she wants to be married to me still she told me she thinks it might be best to split because she doesn't know if she can go through trying to reconcile again. The work it will take. No matter what she says it is clear to me she holds some feelings for this other person, albeit the relationship has been "harmless" chitchat according to her. I do believe her in this case that whatever this is/was between them has not gone beyond friendship......yet. *I think she is using him to feel better about herself, because her proffessional life has not taken off like mine and she resents me for it*. She told me she's still in love with me, which is sending me major mixed signals. I know I"m going to get bashed here probably, but I really think its best to give this one last shot. With a councellors help this time. She has agreed to go, and again said she would not contact the OG while we were working on things. But I am not holding out much hope unfortunately. I honestly feel that if I don't give it a last shot at 100% I will regret it. Especially since there is an eleven year old girl involved who is going to be crushed. Last night was rough. No sleep. I havn't eaten anything for two days. I'm trying to keep busy but I'm crawling out of my own skin. Thanks for all your input guys. It feels good to write these things down. I know alot of you have been in similar situations and I appreciate the constructive feedback.


She is not confused. She already told you she doesn't want to work things out with you. And you're still trying to work things out with her? How, _exactly_, will you have a marriage, if you're the only person in it?

I think she has very strong feelings for the other man. Period. After all, remember this?



CGguy said:


> She and her Friend (yes the same one that perpetuated this relationship before) had a long back and forth conversation about him, and how guilty my wife feels. To sum the conversation up, she was telling her how she's an awful person, she has feelings for this kid, she'd be ashamed if her mother/family found out that this is the reason we split up...
> Reading this conversation between her and her friend it doesn't sound like she's confused.


Seems like she understands perfectly well what she's doing. You have the horse-blinders on, mate. You adamantly refuse to put your foot down and stamp this out, because you're afraid to lose your wife. The sad thing about this approach is that _you will lose your wife if you don't_. She will never drop her toxic friends. She will take her affair underground. All the while, you will be working your ass off trying to make this marriage work. 

You haven't removed the obstacles yet. This approach will not work.


----------



## CGguy

I see what you are saying. And you are right. I am afraid of losing her. And she knows that. I feel like she was just placating me when she agreed to counceling. Maybe so she can tell her family that we tried counseling and couldn't make it work? Therefore downplaying this whole text/email relationship? When I spoke to her last night and we looked at each other. Her eyes felt empty and cold to me. The weird thing is she was kissing and hugging me this morning. Like she did care and love me. This is what makes this decision very hard. 

You give good advice though. Since this is still a bit fresh, I'm going to sleep on it tonight and approach her again tomorrow. If I don't feel like her heart is into another shot, I'm going to file this week. There are so many things hanging over me with this decision, daughter, house, cars, credit, even dogs. Not to mention two vacations in the next few months that are already paid for. Ugh, man this sucks. I'm not a 'one day at a time' type of guy but in this instance I think I need to be.


----------



## CGguy

Beowulf said:


> CG,
> 
> I remember your thread. You were advised to eliminate these toxic enablers from your wife's life and from your marriage. Now they have once again led your wife down this road. You were also advised to expose the affair so that she would feel the consequences of her actions and so you would have others that would help you to keep her on the right path. You chose to ignore that advice and I believe that is why you are once again back to the same place. If you decide to reconcile once again your wife needs to sit down with her family and (honest) friends and out herself. She also has to name these toxic friends to her family and say that they helped enable the affair. She also has to write a NC letter not only to this OM but also to these friends. You have to take charge here and do things that have proven successful before. You tried to take a short cut and look where it got you. Do it right this time or just end the marriage and find someone who wants to be with you.


I brought up that possibility this morning with her. She was open to discussing the fact we're having marriage troubles with our families, but was not receptive to talking about outing herself about the OG. She did say "you can speak about it to whomever you want". In other words, if you say something to my family I'm going to be pissed and will leave. At least that is how I took it. I contemplated speaking with her mother about the situation as I do have a very good relationship with her.


----------



## Beowulf

You do realize that your approach is leading you straight to divorce right? She doesn't respect you because you haven't demanded respect. She resents you not because your professional life has taken off more than hers but because you aren't showing her that you care enough about her to set boundaries. Do you know the definition of foolish? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. You've been given all the advice you will ever need and continue to refuse to follow it. I'm truly sorry for your situation but you aren't doing anything to help yourself...or your wife.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Denial runs long and deep. (And not in Egypt.)


----------



## TBT

He's worth more than your marriage to her!! This isn't any run of the mill friendship.Ask her why she's willing to risk your marriage over this so called friendship if that's all it is.I understand all the complication that go hand in hand with separation and divorce,but really you should be making a lot of room in your considerations for the value you place on your self respect.Wish you well in your decision.Take care.


----------



## OldWolf57

Well I guess you still have not learned anything yet. You have read threads on here and saw they worked when the advice was taken. But you keep thinking your situtiation is sooooo different. And this after posting she was distant to you and your daughter. And this after coldly saying she didn't want to really work it out. Of course she was different this morning. She was still in the house after threating to leave if you expose. She got what SHE wants !! DAMN man get a clue. You are suppose to be a mature man, not some hormone driven teen. She did and said exactly what her toxic friends told her to. So yeah she was different this morning, because what they told her worked. So now you are just there until she finds a real man. GOOD LUCK with that.


----------



## Machiavelli

CGguy said:


> When I spoke to her last night and we looked at each other. *Her eyes felt empty and cold to me.* The weird thing is she was kissing and hugging me this morning. Like she did care and love me. This is what makes this decision very hard.


When I got that look from the X, I described it as her "looking right through me at the wall behind me." It was very disturbing to me and I knew down deep that this was the end. I had ceased to exist to her. This is your reality now and this is your WW showing her true self. The kissing and hugging is the false front to give you the illusion, and that's all it is, of hope, to keep stringing things out until she is ready to drop the hammer.


----------



## Machiavelli

Beowulf said:


> She doesn't respect you because you haven't demanded respect. She resents you not because your professional life has taken off more than hers but because *you aren't showing her that you care enough about her to set boundaries.*


This.

ETA: She also has a new, even lower regard for you since you bought the BS wagon about it only being a friendship. In her mind, if you were meant to be together, you'd have felt a disturbance in the force, and figured out a way to put her back on the reservation. To her, you've failed the ultimate sh!t test: It's physical and you didn't notice.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

He'll be back in six months wondering why she had him served at work with divorce papers.


----------



## OldWolf57

Have you ever played craps ? Whats the worst thing you can do if you are losing. Keep chasing lost money thats what !! And thats what you are doing. ONCE AGAIN !!! You have to be ready to LOSE your marriage if you want to SAVE it. And I don't mean letting her move out for a while to bang OM then take her back. We mean all the way expose, close accounts, close CC, and go dark. Your p***yfooting around is so weak that she don't even take you serious. God what has happened to the men in this country.

AHHHHHHHHHHH man you just made me burn my french fries


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

So she will do anything. Hmm... ask for anal, unload in her and leave because she's probably having a physical affair. I'm sure she's met up with him on at lease 1 night while she was "out with her friends."


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

OldWolf57 said:


> Have you ever played craps ? Whats the worst thing you can do if you are losing. Keep chasing lost money thats what !! And thats what you are doing. ONCE AGAIN !!! You have to be ready to LOSE your marriage if you want to SAVE it. And I don't mean letting her move out for a while to bang OM then take her back. We mean all the way expose, close accounts, close CC, and go dark. Your p***yfooting around is so weak that she don't even take you serious. God what has happened to the men in this country.
> 
> AHHHHHHHHHHH man you just made me burn my french fries


I wonder if OP would want his future children to behave the way he is behaving right now.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

CGguy said:


> We don't live in an area with tons of clubs. Clubbing is not her scene anyhow. She tells me exactly what they did the night before, where they went etc. And who her...almost...divorced friend tried hooking up with. I trust my wife is not picking up dudes at the bar. Its not her style. The texting between this "friend", that is my issue with her. Not to mention, I know everyone around here. If she was out around here hooking up with some dude at a bar/club I would know about it.
> 
> Wanabeelee, yes the text read that my wife was going to ask if he'd want to hang out with them, and her friend replyed 'cool' basically. But, her justification of that is that they would not have been out alone, and that they are just friends. I just wish she never hid the friendship, maybe I would be a little jealous, but there wouldn't be this feeling of betrayal. That is where she went wrong in this whole thing.


Love is blind.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

CGguy said:


> Not sure if fine is the right word but time will tell like you said. I've told her that I'm not sure I can be nice to her friend now. She just keeps saying she didnt do anything to sway her, which is bs cause i read everything. My wife tells me not to be mad at her friend for something she did. I think honestly at this point i am just as mad at her friend. I have every right not to forgive her, shes not family, you know. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the next little while. We'll see if she's really being sincere with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would make her choose between you and her friend. Then you'll know how she really feels. If it's worth it to her, she'll drop the friend.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Birds and who*es of a feather flock together.


----------



## Acabado

Tell her you don't buy a thing. Cut her money. Expose her to family nad GF. File.
Don you want mess things? Talk to OM, better, go to the bar and sit with him and a couple of beers, tell him you wish them well, tell him he can come home to help her with her stuff to move in with him. Tell her GF she was right with her advice, she deserves happyness and you are glad she helped your wife to realize it was with this kid.


----------



## Shaggy

lifeisnotsogood said:


> I would make her choose between you and her friend. Then you'll know how she really feels. If it's worth it to her, she'll drop the friend.


He already did and she chose the friend.


----------



## Will_Kane

*Both times before this most recent one, she agreed to no contact, and both times you found out that she still was in contact*. Will she break her "no contact" promise again this time?

*Both times before this most recent one, she has told you that the other man means nothing to her. Both times you later found messages to the toxic friend revealing that she had deep feelings for the other man* and was considering leaving you, except that she did not want to be labeled a cheater or thought bad of by her family. Will you find a similar message to toxic friend this time?

She has lied to you convincingly each time you confronted her. *Each time you believed her, each time you have been proven wrong*.

Have you bothered to read any of the other threads on this forum, going back for years? If so, have you found a single thread where the betrayed husband handled things the way you plan to where the marriage was saved?

*The way you intend to handle this, you are not giving your marriage one last chance; the way you are handling this, you are giving your marriage NO chance.*

Your wife will not change her lying cheating ways because she knows you will not divorce her. She has let you know, if you don't meet her conditions, of allowing her to remain in contact with her affair partner, that she will divorce you. That, apparently, is enough to keep you in line.

We are not all crazy out here in cyberspace. I think it was Einstein who said *the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.* That Einstein was a pretty smart guy. You don't want to listen to us. Maybe you will listen to him.


----------



## Harken Banks

Dude, spine. And this is coming from me.


----------



## Acabado

The less invested has the power.


----------



## turnera

So basically, she is extorting you.


----------



## TBT

Will_Kane said:


> *
> She has let you know, if you don't meet her conditions, of allowing her to remain in contact with her affair partner, that she will divorce you. That, apparently, is enough to keep you in line.
> *


*

She's basically doing what you should be doing.See how effective it has been with you?*


----------



## I'm The Prize

DO NOT down play what you are sensing here!!! My FWH started his whole affair by having "innocent" conversations with his best friend's wife. It started because he would call his friend and she would answer because the friend was asleep (he is a shift worker so the times were never the same). They started complaining to each other about their marriages and in a couple of weeks they started sexting and then Facebooking, and the having phone sex. From the first sexting to the point where he said he loved her and they plotted to get me out of town was two weeks. Then, once the plot was made it was only two and a half months later when she flew from 4 states away to screw my husband in a cheap hotel for two days. You may have stopped it before it went farther than flirting but that doesn't mean it wasn't headed in that direction. You have to do something now to make sure she knows the consequences of going there again. Do not sit on it! Best of luck.


----------



## one_strange_otter

someone post the godzilla facepalm.....


----------



## shazam

Plan B before it's too late you knucklehead.


----------



## OldWolf57

He's gone again. I guess he never heard "No guts, no glory". He here talking abot giving it 100%, when she is only giving 2% and slo**y seconds. Hey, if you come back and can make it to this post, YOU GAVE 100% while in R. Look what that got you. She is already being cold to your daughter, so is that hurting her ??


----------



## CGguy

Alright everyone. I have an updates, and I need a little more advice. So since the last time I posted, I found out she was still texting him. I put a tracker on her phone (not proud of that, and cancelled it right after) and caught some text messages between them. They started to get sexual on his end. He travels and he was inviting her to stay in his room yada yada...you get the point. Anyway. I wigged out. I had caught her...again....All of this happened while she was at work, so when she got home we talked all night. Long story short she had come to the decision that she wanted out of our marriage. In her mind, she realized when she hit send on the text message to him that she knew she was ready to walk away. And after hours of talking I left. When I got to my office, where I had decided to sleep, I called her. I basically let her have it. I told her I thought she was selfish, and that I wanted her out of my house tomorrow. I also made it clear that her "relationship" with this guy was nothing but a fantasy and that she was willing to break up a marriage for a guy that 1. has a girlfriend and is cheating on her, and will do the same to any other women 2. Talking sexual to another man's wife is scumbag material 3. Travels and is not even around half the time. And, I told her good luck in bringing him around her niece and nephew (who love me, and the feelings mutual), and family when they are all going to find out that she cheated on her husband with him. Did she think they'de actually accept him?

Fast Forward 6 hours. I get a phone call at about 6 AM the next morning. It's her. Crying. Asking me if I could ever forgive her. I tell her I don't know. She then tells me she made a mistake and wants to go to councelling. I tell her I have to think about it. Which I do. All day. And I call her back and agreed if she could do 3 things. 1. End it with him in an email and copy me on it (which she did). 2. No more lies 3. Understand that this is not a quick fix, and will both need alot of time to trust each other again, and that it may get worse before it gets better. She agreed to all of them and for the most part has held up her end of the bargain. I think. But here is my current issue. Since this all went down two weeks ago, I've noticed a sadness about her. I spoke with her last night about it. She is sad about not being able to speak with him again. She says it is because she is losing a friend (which they were before it moved past friendship into an EA), but I'm weary of that being the truth. I'm not sure how to deal with it. It's hard not to wollow in the fact she seems more interested in being sad about losing him, then she is on worrying about my feelings and how bad she hurt me. I don't sleep, I've lost 25lbs in two months because of this bs. And she is still sitting there trying to talk herself out of calling this guy. Unbelievable. She still seems like she is being very cautious around me with her feelings, which scares me. Plus, the email she wrote breaking it off with him was more along the lines of my husband wants me to break it off. My husband thinks this is innapropriate and so on. She took very little responsibility that this whole thing was highly innapropriate. It's hard because she's the one that cheated, she should be there for me as I'm hurting. But it's almost like I'm the one that cheated here, I'm supposed to look out for all her emotional needs (which I am doing), but it feels like she could almost care less about mine. She feels like I am pushing her to talk about things she's not ready to talk about. And I can see her holding back so immediately I think the worst. Anyway. Any thoughts on what I should do here? We both still love each other very much. That has never been in question. But now, we're both left wounded. I think the counselor will help and we've been to one session, but its hard to know how to act around my wife now.


----------



## iheartlife

You are very, very right to be wary. You stopped this thing (we hope) after she became infatuated--a very powerful emotion that is never to be underestimated. That is why continued verification is a must. 

Someone once said, if a drug addict visited a neighborhood where their dealer lived, would you "trust" them that they weren't using again? It is no different now. She has proved, all on her own, that she cannot be trusted with a phone with texting capability. His contact information needs to be removed and blocked, and you need to be checking the phone bill online. Also keylogger the computer. Regularly check the car for a prepaid phone and consider a voice activated recorder as well. This is only temporary so she can prove her loyalty. But the first 6 to 8 weeks after ending contact is when she's the most vulnerable to breaking contact.

Her sadness is mourning for this loss. Don't get upset about it. It's just another human emotion. She became attached enough to this loser that she very seriously contemplated leaving you, so you should not be surprised by this (instead, you should be verifying no contact--there is nothing to be ashamed of--she has violated your trust in a major way).

She was willing to leave you--which means there are things she wishes were different in your relationship. (That isn't putting blame for her stupid choice on you; it's just a fact.) So added to her sadness is this feeling that the relationship is just going to go on, being the same that it was before her fantasy escapist fling. Life in general will be the same. But the point of the fantasy was to get away from that. Now it all feels like a prison.

Do you have the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? Get the book today, from the library if need be, and hand it to her and urge her to read it. It is primarily written for YOU (so you should read it too) but perhaps it will speak to her and help her.

Then what I'd do (if I were you) is sit down and tell her you understand how strong the addiction / compulsion / bad habit is to contact that man. That as wrong as it was, he made her feel special. And that you want to be the person to do that. And that you will work with her during marriage counseling and individual counseling. But that she has to see that the choice she has made was very wrong, and there was no way to justify it. And that if she contacts him, even once, all she is doing is reinforcing this very bad habit in a way that will spell the end of your marriage.

Make sure your marriage counselor is trained in infidelity. 
Get your wife into individual counseling to treat her depression so that she doesn't "self-medicate" by texting you-know-who and getting right back to the place she was in. She needs to figure out why she thought it was a good idea to fix her problems in life by texting an unavailable man.

And, contact that man's girlfriend and tell him what's going on. Do not warn anyone in advance before you do this.


----------



## CGguy

Thank you iheartlife. I have been keeping a very good eye on the phone logs still. She fully expects that. I had already put keylogger software on our home computer, but unfortunately, she was using her phone/work computer to go back and forth with this person. I suspect, mostly through email this last time until she basically didn't care about being caught any longer. She knew I would find out through the phone logs eventually because I was checking them periodically since this first happened. She knows that what she did was out of bounds. But she still doesn't understand the full brevity of what she has done. Or maybe she does, and I just don't feel like she does. She still downplays her feelings towards this person and relationship to no end though. I guess I still struggle with that. Since most of this happened while she was at work, it makes my work days very tough. Always wondering what she is doing, texting, msging etc. It's enough to drive you crazy. Right now I guess I should just be happy that she is still here, willing to work on it. But its hard for me because I want/need more than just that right now. And she can't or isn't willing to give me that much right now.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I sure hope you told his GF


----------



## CGguy

I'm still not 100% sure he has one, but it's what I've heard through the grapevine. And I have no idea who she is. I could probably find out though. It's going to make my wife some pissed if I do that. I've threatened it, but didn't follow through. But you're right she should know. Chances are, he's probably physically cheating on her with someone else anyhow.


----------



## Shaggy

She's going through widthdrawl from her affair. You can't do anything to help her except being around and vigilant to help her through moments when she feels like contacting him. That can take a while, even a couple of months depending on how deep she was in.

Do you know the OM GF's contact info? You should find it and be ready to inform her the moment no contact is broken again. DO not tell your wife about this before or after. Also, if you do stay together wait a couple of months and quietly inform the OMs GF -she has a right to know what he's up to.

Your wife is coming off a dopamine addition. The affair gave her a nice little hit of it everytime she contacted him.

She should read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass while you should be reading Marriage Man Sex Life by Kay Athol. 

Trust your gut going forward. If she suddenly seems different in her withdrawl, it very well could be breaking NC.

Be on the watch for a bunner phone that she uses in her car.

Do you have contact info for the OM? If not then get it and save it for yourself to use someday down the road if you think contact has been renewed.

Finally if you can do it without her knowing it, put blocks on her cell phone so it won't received texts from his number, block him outright on FB, and put a forward-to-you and then delete on her email account.


----------



## badbane

Listen IMO you did the right thing in ending this and the NC. I think now you are falling back into the beta role. By your own account it wasn't until you "let her have it" that she woke up. Well you see what works here. Keep letting her have it. She sounds like right now the only way to reach her is to rock the boat so hard that she can't just minimalize everything. She is in the fog bad. Nothing wakes people up faster than a cold hard dose of reality.
When I confronted my wife about her EA she rug swept until the day I didn't come to bed and told her what's what. She woke up the next day and apologized and has since broken off all contact. She still doesn't like when I bring him up but so what she screwed up not me.


----------



## Shaggy

CGguy said:


> I'm still not 100% sure he has one, but it's what I've heard through the grapevine. And I have no idea who she is. I could probably find out though. It's going to make my wife some pissed if I do that. I've threatened it, but didn't follow through. But you're right she should know. Chances are, he's probably physically cheating on her with someone else anyhow.


Never ever threaten a thing like this. IF your going to do it, just go ahead and do it. Of course she was mad when you made the threat - who like to be threatened? And yes she will be mad because you doing this will hurt her relationship with the OM. She hasn't stopped wanting him to want her, she just stopped communicating because you made her choose.

Never mention telling the GF again, but I highly recommend you do it. Another guy on this board just found out the OM GF new six years ago that the OM was having sex with the posters wife. She decided not to tell the poster. Imagine if she had, the poster could have not wasted the last 6 years being married to someone who was cheating on him every chance she got.


----------



## Harken Banks

CGguy said:


> Talking sexual to another man's wife is scumbag material


Seems so obvious, and yet . . ..


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

I have read reconciliation stories, where the WS dropped all the toxic friends who exacerbated the EA/PA, 10 yrs, 20 yrs friendship who cares its for your spouse. They drop the OW/OM in seconds show remorse and know full well that their actions were wrong, these remorseful cases of WS are rare. Your wife is still in the fog, she's still attracted to him, physically/mentally. This makes me wonder if it was purely EA. As you stated in the beginning, minimizing from your spouse, 40 texts on just "how are you?" "how are you feeling" ??? bull.

From now on, do not mention any plans to her about your investigation. If you are going to tell the OM's gf, or put a tracker on her phone, or anything of the sort, do not tell her. 

As Shaggy said, the GF may know, or have known or maybe not known and you not telling her is detrimental, if my spouse were cheating on me, I'd want the OM's spouse/gf to confront me and tell me! I hope your wife comes out of that daze of "loving" that OM with seratonin in her ralph neclei , testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus, oxytocin and dopamine running into the primitive part of the brain activating the reward circuitry.

This is an addiction, kill it, "COLD TURKEY". If you think you have it tough, look at how people are so interested in affairs and they even help each other to have affairs. Check this website out, its the complete opposite of this part of the forum.
Affair Discussion Forum • Index page


----------



## CGguy

Shaggy said:


> She's going through widthdrawl from her affair. You can't do anything to help her except being around and vigilant to help her through moments when she feels like contacting him. That can take a while, even a couple of months depending on how deep she was in.
> 
> Do you know the OM GF's contact info? You should find it and be ready to inform her the moment no contact is broken again. DO not tell your wife about this before or after. Also, if you do stay together wait a couple of months and quietly inform the OMs GF -she has a right to know what he's up to.
> 
> Your wife is coming off a dopamine addition. The affair gave her a nice little hit of it everytime she contacted him.
> 
> She should read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass while you should be reading Marriage Man Sex Life by Kay Athol.
> 
> Trust your gut going forward. If she suddenly seems different in her withdrawl, it very well could be breaking NC.
> 
> Be on the watch for a bunner phone that she uses in her car.
> 
> Do you have contact info for the OM? If not then get it and save it for yourself to use someday down the road if you think contact has been renewed.
> 
> Finally if you can do it without her knowing it, put blocks on her cell phone so it won't received texts from his number, block him outright on FB, and put a forward-to-you and then delete on her email account.


Everytime I turned away from gut in this whole thing, it has blown up in my face. I won't not listen to it again. I don't have eithers contact info., other than his email address. Like I said, I'm not even 100% sure that he has a GF. Just what I have heard. The last time they started texting, he switched phones. I'm assuming its a work cell phone or something. Very sneaky....I don't know her email account pw yet. Like I said, she doesn't use our home laptop very often. She does all her emailing and fb msging with her friends at work. I like your analogy of a dopamine addiction. She definitely doesn't see it like that all. Denial I guess. The more I push her to see past the denial, the more defensive and pissed off she gets.


----------



## iheartlife

CGguy said:


> She knows that what she did was out of bounds. But she still doesn't understand the full brevity of what she has done. Or maybe she does, and I just don't feel like she does. *She still downplays her feelings towards this person and relationship to no end though*. I guess I still struggle with that.


If that's the case:

--*tell her she has to read the book Not Just Friends*; in fact, what I'd do instead, is read it quickly myself, locate the relevant passages, and get her to sit down and listen to you read them aloud to her

--*find a marriage counselor trained in infidelity*. I found ours via referral from a sex therapist / porn addiction group. Those counselors understand compulsions (like secretly texting an "old friend") and they also understand infidelity. Ask them to name their best marriage counselors to which they send couples.

--*get her into individual counseling*. This whole scenario is an ESCAPIST FANTASY. When people do things like this, they aren't happy with themselves, their lives, their careers, their relationships, whatever. It really isn't any different than this: she's bored, or she's down, so she texts this guy. Zing! She gets a little hit of her drug that activates a pleasure center in her brain. This temporarily takes the edge off. She waits for him to text her back. Anticipation helps the pleasure center stay activated. If he takes too long, she texts him again to keep that pleasure up. Finally he texts her back. Major flood in the pleasure center. Problems? Forgotten. Anxiety? Down. Self-esteem? Up. Happy little butterflies / sensation of being in love? Yep. Actual problems like dirty dishes, underwear on the floor, farting in bed, oil in the car need changing? Well, that would be a No.

Now YOU tell us why she'd want to give that up without a fight.


----------



## CGguy

badbane said:


> Listen IMO you did the right thing in ending this and the NC. I think now you are falling back into the beta role. By your own account it wasn't until you "let her have it" that she woke up. Well you see what works here. Keep letting her have it. She sounds like right now the only way to reach her is to rock the boat so hard that she can't just minimalize everything. She is in the fog bad. Nothing wakes people up faster than a cold hard dose of reality.
> When I confronted my wife about her EA she rug swept until the day I didn't come to bed and told her what's what. She woke up the next day and apologized and has since broken off all contact. She still doesn't like when I bring him up but so what she screwed up not me.


When I asked her why she changed her mind about staying together, she said she couldn't "imagine her life without me in it". I'm not even really sure what that means, but I'll take it for now.


----------



## CGguy

iheartlife said:


> If that's the case:
> 
> --*tell her she has to read the book Not Just Friends*; in fact, what I'd do instead, is read it quickly myself, locate the relevant passages, and get her to sit down and listen to you read them aloud to her
> 
> --*find a marriage counselor trained in infidelity*. I found ours via referral from a sex therapist / porn addiction group. Those counselors understand compulsions (like secretly texting an "old friend") and they also understand infidelity. Ask them to name their best marriage counselors to which they send couples.
> 
> --*get her into individual counseling*. This whole scenario is an ESCAPIST FANTASY. When people do things like this, they aren't happy with themselves, their lives, their careers, their relationships, whatever. It really isn't any different than this: she's bored, or she's down, so she texts this guy. Zing! She gets a little hit of her drug that activates a pleasure center in her brain. This temporarily takes the edge off. She waits for him to text her back. Anticipation helps the pleasure center stay activated. If he takes too long, she texts him again to keep that pleasure up. Finally he texts her back. Major flood in the pleasure center. Problems? Forgotten. Anxiety? Down. Self-esteem? Up. Happy little butterflies / sensation of being in love? Yep. Actual problems like dirty dishes, underwear on the floor, farting in bed, oil in the car need changing? Well, that would be a No.
> 
> Now YOU tell us why she'd want to give that up without a fight.


I have heard the book mentioned many times. I will order it today. At this point I'm willing to do anything to understand this. We went to a counselor already. We both liked her. She has drug and alcohol addiction experience which I think could be helpful here. She definitely has self esteem issues. I have seen them grow over the last couple years. Her professional life has really gone in the dumps. She was out of work twice in the last couple years. Miraculously when she started the texting business it was when she was out of work. The problem is, I know all these things. But she just gets defensive and angry if I start to bring them up. She knows why she started texting him. It made her feel good. He didn't care if she did the dishes, laundry etc. She has admitted those things to me. All these things eat at me. I wish she would talk to me about them. But she's not ready.


----------



## Chaparral

Here is what you need to study with her. If she denies its an affair find the lists for emotional affairs.

Print this off for you and her. As for yourself you need to read Married Man Sex Life Primer and No More Mister Nice Guy to see how this rel got off track in the first place.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> Since this all went down two weeks ago, I've noticed a sadness about her. I spoke with her last night about it. She is sad about not being able to speak with him again. She says it is because she is losing a friend (which they were before it moved past friendship into an EA), but I'm weary of that being the truth. I'm not sure how to deal with it. It's hard not to wollow in the fact she seems more interested in being sad about losing him, then she is on worrying about my feelings and how bad she hurt me. I don't sleep, I've lost 25lbs in two months because of this bs. And she is still sitting there trying to talk herself out of calling this guy. Unbelievable. She still seems like she is being very cautious around me with her feelings, which scares me. Plus, the email she wrote breaking it off with him was more along the lines of my husband wants me to break it off. My husband thinks this is innapropriate and so on. She took very little responsibility that this whole thing was highly innapropriate. It's hard because she's the one that cheated, she should be there for me as I'm hurting. But it's almost like I'm the one that cheated here, I'm supposed to look out for all her emotional needs (which I am doing), but it feels like she could almost care less about mine. She feels like I am pushing her to talk about things she's not ready to talk about. And I can see her holding back so immediately I think the worst. Anyway. Any thoughts on what I should do here? We both still love each other very much. That has never been in question. But now, we're both left wounded. I think the counselor will help and we've been to one session, but its hard to know how to act around my wife now.


 First, know that this is just typical script. It happens A LOT! Especially for women who cheat; most women who cheat do so to get a connection, a feeling of attachment. She's mourning that attachment, that feeling of being cared about, loved, wanted, admired. So, yeah, she's in a pit right now because all she has left is YOU, who (in her mind) doesn't give her any of that stuff - why else would she have gone outside marriage to look for it?

Second, don't take that personally. It could have been anyone she got into an EA with, even another female, or an addiction to gaming or whatever. THAT, her sadness, is NOT about you. It's just about a loss. About a 'wow, now my life is gray when a month ago it was full of rainbow.'

Third, this is where you need to spend the money for a LOT of counseling. A lot, and frequent. Make it constant so you don't lose momentum.


----------



## iheartlife

CGguy said:


> I have heard the book mentioned many times. I will order it today. At this point I'm willing to do anything to understand this. We went to a counselor already. We both liked her. She has drug and alcohol addiction experience which I think could be helpful here. She definitely has self esteem issues. I have seen them grow over the last couple years. Her professional life has really gone in the dumps. She was out of work twice in the last couple years. Miraculously when she started the texting business it was when she was out of work. The problem is, I know all these things. But she just gets defensive and angry if I start to bring them up. She knows why she started texting him. It made her feel good. He didn't care if she did the dishes, laundry etc. She has admitted those things to me. All these things eat at me. I wish she would talk to me about them. But she's not ready.


Not Just Friends will certainly help YOU even if it doesn't get through to her. It was written by a highly regarded researcher into the nature of infidelity. The book summarizes her work and the work of others on the subject. (I hope your counselor is familiar with her--ours was.)

Talking about it with you brings up huge amounts of guilt--it's an extremely unpleasant thing to do. She does need to acknowledge it, but she may find it easier to do in a letter to you than face to face. 

See if you can get the marriage counselor to persuade your wife to enter individual counseling. She does need to understand the source of her neediness and why she thought this was an appropriate way to handle it.


----------



## CGguy

turnera said:


> First, know that this is just typical script. It happens A LOT! Especially for women who cheat; most women who cheat do so to get a connection, a feeling of attachment. She's mourning that attachment, that feeling of being cared about, loved, wanted, admired. So, yeah, she's in a pit right now because all she has left is YOU, who (in her mind) doesn't give her any of that stuff - why else would she have gone outside marriage to look for it?
> 
> Second, don't take that personally. It could have been anyone she got into an EA with, even another female, or an addiction to gaming or whatever. THAT, her sadness, is NOT about you. It's just about a loss. About a 'wow, now my life is gray when a month ago it was full of rainbow.'
> 
> Third, this is where you need to spend the money for a LOT of counseling. A lot, and frequent. Make it constant so you don't lose momentum.


I'm trying not to take it personal. She's downplaying how sad she is about losing this "friendship". I know that. We have started counseling. It is tough because we went once and have to wait for 2 weeks to get another appt. The counselor is on vacation. I'm prepared to spend whatever, and do whatever to make it work. I'm just not 100% sure that it is mutual. Time will tell I guess.


----------



## iheartlife

CGguy said:


> I'm trying not to take it personal. She's downplaying how sad she is about losing this "friendship". I know that. We have started counseling. It is tough because we went once and have to wait for 2 weeks to get another appt. The counselor is on vacation. I'm prepared to spend whatever, and do whatever to make it work. I'm just not 100% sure that it is mutual. Time will tell I guess.


Well, my husband bawled his eyes out because he was losing his 'soulmate.' 3 weeks later he was back in contact (because I didn't know a thing about infidelity), and that lasted another 3 years until I caught him AGAIN. By then the affair had waned--it followed its arc of hot at the start, texting and calling constantly, to (as the phone records show) cutting down to one or two hours a month. 

That was what my husband needed to see: she wasn't his soulmate, just someone he got along with extremely well. That she would likely cheat on him, too, and could never be fully trusted. That she had her own issues--a real relationship is not all fun and games. 

We are recommitted and reconciling. There is a vast difference between how he is now, and how he was then. But I would never have "waited" for him to fall out of love with her--my self-respect would have been shot to pieces and I never could have stayed under those circumstances. It all happened without my knowledge. So he's able to have those frank discussions about what he got out of it and why he did it. Although he doesn't enjoy them any more than your wife does.

Our counselor so far has spent over 8 hours discussing the affair. There really isn't any focus on what I (as a wife) should be doing differently--because I'm already sensitized to that. Which reminds me, three other books for you (assuming she's not still in contact):

His Needs / Her Needs
5 Love Languages
Love Busters

these don't overlap much, they each serve a different purpose.


One more thing to discuss--the work gap and how you have little ability to monitor / verify what's going on there. What's the deal with facebook--is she still on FB? Do you have her password? How about emails--she uses her work email? Do you have a password for that?


----------



## CGguy

iheartlife said:


> Well, my husband bawled his eyes out because he was losing his 'soulmate.' 3 weeks later he was back in contact (because I didn't know a thing about infidelity), and that lasted another 3 years until I caught him AGAIN. By then the affair had waned--it followed its arc of hot at the start, texting and calling constantly, to (as the phone records show) cutting down to one or two hours a month.
> 
> That was what my husband needed to see: she wasn't his soulmate, just someone he got along with extremely well. That she would likely cheat on him, too, and could never be fully trusted. That she had her own issues--a real relationship is not all fun and games.
> 
> We are recommitted and reconciling. There is a vast difference between how he is now, and how he was then. But I would never have "waited" for him to fall out of love with her--my self-respect would have been shot to pieces and I never could have stayed under those circumstances. It all happened without my knowledge. So he's able to have those frank discussions about what he got out of it and why he did it. Although he doesn't enjoy them any more than your wife does.
> 
> Our counselor so far has spent over 8 hours discussing the affair. There really isn't any focus on what I (as a wife) should be doing differently--because I'm already sensitized to that. Which reminds me, three other books for you (assuming she's not still in contact):
> 
> His Needs / Her Needs
> 5 Love Languages
> Love Busters
> 
> these don't overlap much, they each serve a different purpose.
> 
> 
> One more thing to discuss--the work gap and how you have little ability to monitor / verify what's going on there. What's the deal with facebook--is she still on FB? Do you have her password? How about emails--she uses her work email? Do you have a password for that?


I ordered the Shirley Glass book. I'll start there. She is addicted to FB. She is on there msging with her friend probably 1-2 hrs. a day. Her best GF not this guy. I don't have her pw yet. No she uses her yahoo email. She wouldn't use her work email. She is only busy during tax season, so right now, she has nothing to do at all. Alot of down time. Which makes me nervous as you can imagine. I read some msg's between her friend and her where she mentioned she was sad and that she fights off texting him again. I brought it up to her and she admitted feeling that way. But again, I had to drag it out of her.


----------



## CGguy

Ty Chapparal, I read most of this. I think this explains how I feel much better than than I ever could. It's amazing. Alot of what this says is what I am looking to her to do. I think the problem is she holds a lot of resentment towards me for not being emotionally available to her for many years. I have changed in that regard at great lengths in the last year. She still thinks its not "real" though. And I don't know how to prove it to her other than to just keep being me.


----------



## iheartlife

CGguy said:


> Ty Chapparal, I read most of this. I think this explains how I feel much better than than I ever could. It's amazing. Alot of what this says is what I am looking to her to do. I think the problem is she holds a lot of resentment towards me for not being emotionally available to her for many years. I have changed in that regard at great lengths in the last year. She still thinks its not "real" though. And I don't know how to prove it to her other than to just keep being me.


Then you will get a lot out of the other 3 books (His Needs / Her Needs et al).

but, I have to say this...you don't have her FB password?....:banghead:


----------



## CGguy

iheartlife said:


> Then you will get a lot out of the other 3 books (His Needs / Her Needs et al).
> 
> but, I have to say this...you don't have her FB password?....:banghead:


Well she's on fb automatically on her phone. I can look at her account whenever. She de-friended him before the last time she said she wouldn't contact him. I know that much. I do believe her that there has been NC with him for the last 2 weeks with the you know what hit the fan.


----------



## Jellybeans

I have not read this thread in it's entirely but am just pointing out that I noticed you started this in December 2011. It's now August 2012 and you just posted "she has been no contact with him for 2 weeks now."

I am assuming that means this has been happening for a long time.

That sucks.


----------



## iheartlife

CGguy said:


> Well she's on fb automatically on her phone. I can look at her account whenever. She de-friended him before the last time she said she wouldn't contact him. I know that much. I do believe her that there has been NC with him for the last 2 weeks with the you know what hit the fan.


No unfriend. He must be BLOCKED. You can also separately block all known emails that he used via facebook separately.

2 weeks--as jellybeans said, early days, my friend. Right now I'd be concentrating on verification hard-core. In fact, I'd buy a VAR if I were you. I outlined my story above, so you see where I'm coming from. Don't repeat my mistakes.


----------



## CH

Jellybeans said:


> I have not read this thread in it's entirely but am just pointing out that I noticed you started this in December 2011. It's now August 2012 and you just posted "she has been no contact with him for 2 weeks now."
> 
> I am assuming that means this has been happening for a long time.
> 
> That sucks.


I guess that's some sort of progress, a victory of any kind is still a victory


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> she just gets defensive and angry if I start to bring them up.


You've mentioned this a couple times and I want to point out that someone who easily gets defensive and angry when you point out a flaw of theirs has some serious self work to get done. MC isn't going to do much about that, so insist on IC, at least twice a month for a good couple of years.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

That daily hours use of facebook needs to stop. Watching some soap operas for your drama and not fb more so dont live them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> I'm trying not to take it personal. She's downplaying how sad she is about losing this "friendship".


I think this is a mistake.

If you can handle the ugly feelings you'll have, I would encourage _you_ to encourage _her_ to be completely honest, and bare ALL her feelings to you. She's been hiding her feelings for a long time, basically living a double life - and I'm not just talking about the EA, I mean not sharing with YOU for a long, long time.

If you can handle it, ask her to come to you with all her feelings, promise her that you will not react but will just listen, so that she starts to feel safe being honest with you. 

If she goes down the road of downplaying her feelings, that's just setting up another marriage of putting on a 'face' for you. And that's not a marriage. Nor does it affair-proof the marriage.


----------



## Jellybeans

iheartlife said:


> No unfriend. He must be BLOCKED.


:iagree:

If she is serious about your marriage, she would'n be in any form of contact with him at all. 



turnera said:


> You've mentioned this a couple times and I want to point out that someone who easily gets defensive and angry when you point out a flaw of theirs has some serious self work to get done.


Agreed. And most of the times when someone gets defensive about something, it usually means you are, in fact, calling them out on a valid point.


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> I don't have her pw yet. No she uses her yahoo email.


WTF?!

Why the hell not? You should never even have spoken to her again without that.


----------



## iheartlife

Jellybeans said:


> I have not read this thread in it's entirely but am just pointing out that I noticed you started this in December 2011. It's now August 2012 and you just posted "she has been no contact with him for 2 weeks now."
> 
> I am assuming that means this has been happening for a long time.
> 
> That sucks.


Yes, with large blocks of time at work where he doesn't know what she's up to--she could be calling from her work phone; messaging via FB (because I'd want full computer access to the page, not just via her phone)--and she can delete those messages; he isn't blocked, so he can read her page and message her; etc.

We are not trying to make you paranoid, CGguy. You just have to understand that She's been lying to you for a very long time, and she has every incentive to find a work-around. Prepaid phones can be bought at the corner drugstore nowadays. And if I recall correctly, this guy is schooled in that stuff and could easily suggest it if she's not thought of it already.


----------



## turnera

CG, you seriously need to address this nothing to do all day thing. I take it she just stays at home while you work? 

IIWY, I would be having serious discussions about this, about how you expect her to either be getting another job outside the tax thing that takes up the rest of the year, or you expect her to start volunteering somewhere. IME, it's the SAHWs who are most likely to cheat, just BECAUSE they have all that time on their hands.

You have the power right now, she wants the marriage, you're questioning it. USE that power to set up new guidelines for your family. Or else you walk away.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

This is horrible, almost sounds as if she wants to leave but doesn't have enough guts to leave and is afraid, she may not be speaking to OM but she sure isn't opening up or sharing herself with you. Next time you make love to your wife, talk about things, oxytocin and all that bonding will make it slightly easier to open up. Another reality check should be in order if this persists, because last time you left her it seemed to have really moved the NC issue into effect, and explicitly showed your disapproval through your actions.


----------



## iheartlife

turnera said:


> CG, you seriously need to address this nothing to do all day thing. I take it she just stays at home while you work?


I think she's an accountant, actually, and that is part of the problem, is she works from an office, so she has a work computer, phone, etc. AND lots of time on her hands.


----------



## warlock07

CGguy said:


> Alright everyone. I have an updates, and I need a little more advice. So since the last time I posted, I found out she was still texting him. I put a tracker on her phone (not proud of that, and cancelled it right after) and caught some text messages between them. They started to get sexual on his end. He travels and he was inviting her to stay in his room yada yada...you get the point. Anyway. I wigged out. I had caught her...again....All of this happened while she was at work, so when she got home we talked all night. Long story short she had come to the decision that she wanted out of our marriage. In her mind, she realized when she hit send on the text message to him that she knew she was ready to walk away. And after hours of talking I left. When I got to my office, where I had decided to sleep, I called her. I basically let her have it. I told her I thought she was selfish, and that I wanted her out of my house tomorrow. I also made it clear that her "relationship" with this guy was nothing but a fantasy and that she was willing to break up a marriage for a guy that 1. has a girlfriend and is cheating on her, and will do the same to any other women 2. Talking sexual to another man's wife is scumbag material 3. Travels and is not even around half the time. And, I told her good luck in bringing him around her niece and nephew (who love me, and the feelings mutual), and family when they are all going to find out that she cheated on her husband with him. Did she think they'de actually accept him?
> 
> Fast Forward 6 hours. I get a phone call at about 6 AM the next morning. It's her. Crying. Asking me if I could ever forgive her. I tell her I don't know. She then tells me she made a mistake and wants to go to councelling. I tell her I have to think about it. Which I do. All day. And I call her back and agreed if she could do 3 things. 1. End it with him in an email and copy me on it (which she did). 2. No more lies 3. Understand that this is not a quick fix, and will both need alot of time to trust each other again, and that it may get worse before it gets better. She agreed to all of them and for the most part has held up her end of the bargain. I think. But here is my current issue. Since this all went down two weeks ago, I've noticed a sadness about her. I spoke with her last night about it. She is sad about not being able to speak with him again. She says it is because she is losing a friend (which they were before it moved past friendship into an EA), but I'm weary of that being the truth. I'm not sure how to deal with it. It's hard not to wollow in the fact she seems more interested in being sad about losing him, then she is on worrying about my feelings and how bad she hurt me. I don't sleep, I've lost 25lbs in two months because of this bs. And she is still sitting there trying to talk herself out of calling this guy. Unbelievable. She still seems like she is being very cautious around me with her feelings, which scares me. Plus, the email she wrote breaking it off with him was more along the lines of my husband wants me to break it off. My husband thinks this is innapropriate and so on. She took very little responsibility that this whole thing was highly innapropriate. It's hard because she's the one that cheated, she should be there for me as I'm hurting. But it's almost like I'm the one that cheated here, I'm supposed to look out for all her emotional needs (which I am doing), but it feels like she could almost care less about mine. She feels like I am pushing her to talk about things she's not ready to talk about. And I can see her holding back so immediately I think the worst. Anyway. Any thoughts on what I should do here? We both still love each other very much. That has never been in question. But now, we're both left wounded. I think the counselor will help and we've been to one session, but its hard to know how to act around my wife now.


alert! Alert! It mostly sounds like she talked to him after she dumped you and he wouldn't consider her full term beyond a quick affair or a short fling. ()

This affair will definitely resume. You are the backup choice. Start the 180. Unless she begs you to, you have no chance of saving this marriage. Hardcore 180. Looks like your wife respects only those she has to chase. The OM is the forbidden fruit while you are waiting in the background ready to take her back without much fuss and console her immediately


----------



## warlock07

CGguy said:


> When I asked her why she changed her mind about staying together, she said she couldn't "imagine her life without me in it". I'm not even really sure what that means, but I'll take it for now.


Remember your gut!! Ignore it at tour own peril. So much heart change in a space of 6-7



CGguy said:


> Everytime I turned away from gut in this whole thing, it has blown up in my face. I won't not listen to it again. I don't have eithers contact info., other than his email address. Like I said, I'm not even 100% sure that he has a GF. Just what I have heard. The last time they started texting, he switched phones. I'm assuming its a work cell phone or something. Very sneaky....I don't know her email account pw yet. Like I said, she doesn't use our home laptop very often. She does all her emailing and fb msging with her friends at work. I like your analogy of a dopamine addiction. She definitely doesn't see it like that all. Denial I guess. The more I push her to see past the denial, the more defensive and pissed off she gets.


Dude!!! Did the affair even end?


----------



## turnera

iheartlife said:


> I think she's an accountant, actually, and that is part of the problem, is she works from an office, so she has a work computer, phone, etc. AND lots of time on her hands.


That's right, I forgot. But he says she spends all her time on FB. So, if I was him, I'd be having a talk about the job she has and how all that downtime has led to this. My brother's a CPA and he works his butt off all year round.


----------



## OldWolf57

It should have come as no surprise after you rug swept this for so long.
Time and Time again you was given the tools to stop this, but refused to act.
Now after seeing him asking her to hang out in his room, you go abomb.

So, once again " expose this to the family ". You are allowing her to wallow in self pity while you suffer. Well with her getting a dozen calls a day from family checking on her, she won't be thinking as much about him. 
I know you won't but it was worth another shot just for your kids sake.
The posers are givin you VERY good stuff for going forward, but you have NOT DONE the basic first to bring about accountabiliy by destabilizing her foundation. Family and YOU.


----------



## CGguy

Jellybeans said:


> I have not read this thread in it's entirely but am just pointing out that I noticed you started this in December 2011. It's now August 2012 and you just posted "she has been no contact with him for 2 weeks now."
> 
> I am assuming that means this has been happening for a long time.
> 
> That sucks.


I found out in December. She cut it off until June when she saw him in a chance encounter out with some other people (not me). She told me about seeing him out. Then the emails started. I found out in late July. She cut it off again. But it only lasted a couple weeks. The major fallout happened in late July. She has been NC since, and now we are here. Quick overview.


----------



## CGguy

turnera said:


> That's right, I forgot. But he says she spends all her time on FB. So, if I was him, I'd be having a talk about the job she has and how all that downtime has led to this. My brother's a CPA and he works his butt off all year round.


Exactly


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

turnera said:


> CG, you seriously need to address this nothing to do all day thing. I take it she just stays at home while you work?
> 
> IIWY, I would be having serious discussions about this, about how you expect her to either be getting another job outside the tax thing that takes up the rest of the year, or you expect her to start volunteering somewhere. IME, *it's the SAHWs who are most likely to cheat*, just BECAUSE they have all that time on their hands.
> 
> You have the power right now, she wants the marriage, you're questioning it. USE that power to set up new guidelines for your family. Or else you walk away.


You need to consider the fact that most working women are able to cheat with co workers, so the person who wishes to cheat, does so, whether they are happily married, SAHW, working fulltime, kids no kids, whatever etc. The point is to avoid the occassion to cheat, such as GNO, a divorced friend needs a wing woman (recent thread), "working late", studying with a partner of the opposite sex alone(recent thread) etc


----------



## aug

The OM is now part of her psyche. She thinks about him. His image has now been burnt into her head. She misses him, so she's sad.

Her mind is not really into your marriage at this point. Her desire for him is stronger than it is for you.

What do you need to do to redirect her? You have to take some serious and hard actions to shock her out of it. What you have been doing now is certainly not effective -- that's obvious to you, isnt it?

Start now by separating your finances from hers. No joint bank accounts, loans/debts. Protect your assets.

Prepare for divorce. Talk to a lawyer. Start gathering your evidence, if you havent done so yet. 

When you're ready to let her go, do so. She'll reconcile if she has any love for you remaining.


----------



## kindi

CGguy said:


> I found out in December. She cut it off until June when she saw him in a chance encounter out with some other people (not me). She told me about seeing him out. Then the emails started. I found out in late July. She cut it off again. But it only lasted a couple weeks. The major fallout happened in late July. She has been NC since, and now we are here. Quick overview.


C'mon, it was no "chance" encounter. She didn't even come clean about being in the same place as him until you pointed out the photos of the two of them together, only then did she try to brush it off as a "coincidence" that they ran into each other, and you bought right into it without question. Just like you assume they're NC even though you have no way to know for sure. 

You've been told the truth on an "only what you need to know basis because you found out already" since last December and you just recently posted that she refuses to give you the passwords for one or more of her accounts.

This thing is totally out of your hands, she is calling all the shots and it's largely your fault because you're afraid to put your foot down out of fear of losing her and because of your inaction that is exactly what's going to happen.


----------



## aug

kindi said:


> This thing is totally out of your hands, she is calling all the shots and it's largely your fault because you're afraid to put your foot down out of fear of losing her and because of your inaction that is exactly what's going to happen.


Yes. Agree.


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> alert! Alert! It mostly sounds like she talked to him after she dumped you and he wouldn't consider her full term beyond a quick affair or a short fling. ()


:iagree:

If OM said he would marry her, she would be out the door before you could say the word divorce.

CGguy is the backup plan. Nothing more.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Put your foot down. How would she like it if you were hanging around some OW, most WS do not like the idea of THEIR spouse being with someone else, I'm not promoting RA, I'm totally against RA but seriously, she needs to put herself in your shoes and you need to kill this infection and PREVENT it from coming back!


----------



## WasDecimated

CGguy,

I wish you the best of luck with your situation. It sounds very much like my situation. 

I caught my wife of 12 years texting a guy (facebook) in 2009 after checking our cell records. A gut feeling lead me to do this. It had been going on for 3 months. She denied any contact...just texting saying they were just friends. I gave her the ultimatum...no more contact or I will divorce you. She agreed, cried and said she loved me and didn't want a divorce. Things got better for a while and then started slipping slowly as time went on. 

After about a year of keeping my eyes on her I came to the realization that she must be still talking to him again but I had no proof. I did the deep digging and discovered they never stopped. They just took it underground. I contacted his wife and she had all the proof I needed...thousands of messages between my wife and her husband. It was all there in their own words...and extremely painful to read. She had been seeing him for over a year...It was a physical affair as well as emotional.

I stupidly gave her the same ultimatum again...she agreed again. Guess what...she lied again too. I spent another 8 months in a false recovery...wasting my time and emotional energy for nothing. 

The point I'm trying to make is after a string of "D" days and her continued lying, I finally filed for divorce from her...she had completely destroyed all of the trust between us. I realized that they could start up again at any time and I would never know. One month from now or five years from now...I would never know. The divorce should be final in a couple months. I will be losing my ass financially but at least I will have peace or mind and my emotional security.

After a wife goes to such extremes to lie and hide their activities with OM, I am pessimistic that she will change. I finally decided that I could not live like this anymore...keeping tabs on her, not trusting her...etc. It was obvious that she valued the affair over our marriage and I cannot change how she feels..or her. I don't need to raise her like she is a rebellious teenage daughter. I didn't sign up for that s**t. What made it even worse was watching her sit around and sob and pine over missing her OM only to resume secret contact again and again. That was disgusting and intolerable. I have no respect for someone who is that weak minded that they are not in control of their feelings or choices.

They can have each other. She is losing a great, caring, loving, devoted, faithful and successful husband as well as 3 wonderful children, that will despise her for what she did. All for someone else's husband who is a known cheater and a liar and a dead beat at that.

Maybe I'm jaded but I haven't seen many marriages that return to 100% after a betrayal such as this...It's always there...under the surface. You can never forget....I know I won't.


----------



## lordmayhem

That's a tragic story Decimated. A lot of us have been wondering what became of you. Glad to see that you're moving on. The lesson is that when they are THAT deep in the fog, nothing, not marriage, not their spouse, not friends, not family, and not even children, mean more to them than their affair and the OM/OW.

Yes, the addiction really is that strong. The WS can literally destroy their lives just so they can stay in affair land. It's sad.


----------



## Complexity

I think the biggest mistake you're making is trying to win her back when it should be the other way around. You didn't cheat, she did.
That indicates as Lordmayhem said, that you're the back up guy and she has little consideration for your feelings. If you were her priority, she would be moving mountains to atone. The fact she's strategizing infront you how not to contact the other man is heart wrenching in itself. It reminds of me of this one fellow who's wife cheated on him. While they were reconciling she came and sat on his lap, crying telling him to help her get over the affair partner.

God, felt so bad for that guy


----------



## Almostrecovered

Good to hear from you Dec, I hope your freedom will be filled with many wondrous adventures


----------



## WasDecimated

Very well said Lordmayhem and Complexity...great advise. I hope he takes it and saves himself a lot of future grief. In the confused and twisted mind of a Wayward, the priorities are so far out of whack that nothing is even a close second to the OP and the high they get from that relationship.

He cannot win her back...I tried that...I tried everything. Some people need to lose everything before they wake up but then it's too late. I refuse to be the "backup guy" That's just pathetic. She didn't move mountains in fact, she didn't move a damn thing...but she'll be moving out.

The only good thing is I can honestly say to my children and our families that I tried everything to keep our marriage together..she, did not.

Thanks Almostrecovered...I hope so too.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read the Wayward spouse instructions with your wife?

For added shock/seriousness value, download a divorce packet for your state and start getting it ready. You may have to pick it up at the county court house. Let your "wife" know you are ready, willing and aable to drop the hammer if she isn't on board your marriage. Have the package filled out and ready to go.

Her reaction to the wayward instructions will tell you a lot.


----------



## Shaggy

Her refusing to talk about the affair is a way to protect the affair from ending, if she talks about it, you might point out things that will hurt it, you might talk her out of it.

This woman has lied and lied an betrayed.

Yet she continues to call the shots and she continues to have hours daily of secrets.

The current situation is a recipe for failure. She is going to break NC because she is invested in her sorrow not in her recovery. She has too much private time on her hands and she knows you won't see her break NC.

She was trust at a time she has destroyed all trust.


----------



## CGguy

Hi all. So couple weeks have gone by. We have been to a couple counselor sessions and just got back from a one week vacation together. The counselor seems to be helping. We haven't really touched much on the affair in the sessions yet, more of how we got to that point and what our goals are now. My wife does seem fully invested in the counseling and our marriage at this point, but I think the sessions have helped her more than they have helped me. I still struggle with the thoughts of the affair. It crosses my mind daily. Some days are worse than others. When I'm at work is the hardest. It is where I found out she broke NC the last time, and when I found out this was far from just "friends" talking. I am reading the book everyone suggested 'Just Friends'. I'm about half way through because of my limited time (work/family). It has some really good insights though. My wife has agreed to read it when I am done so maybe it will give her a little better idea of what I'm going through right now. It is hard for me to explain it to her. Overall, things are improving, although I think we are both a bit cautious. 

I am still hawkishly on the lookout for any signs of her speaking with him again. I got a hold of her email and facebook pw's. I'm going to keep the fact that I have those to myself for a while. I also put a keylogger on our laptops at home which I check periodically. I did read a message between her and a friend a couple weeks ago that said she missed talking with the OG. But that she had "made her decision" about not speaking with him. After I read that the next day I brought up the fact she was looking a little down lately, and asked her if she was sad because she couldn't speak to him anymore. She said that sometimes she thinks about it and it makes her a little sad. But that she's not sad because the EA has ended, but that because she lost a friend and knows it is her fault. Her fault because she lied to me about them speaking initially and that she let the relationship go somewhere it was not supposed to. I don't know if I buy that 100%, but I'm sure that is part of it since they were friends before this whole thing went down. It's pretty obvious to me though that what she misses is the warm fuzzy feeling I'm sure she got from speaking with him. The kind you get in a new relationship. I haven't forgotten what that feels like, and I think she underestimates my perception of the whole thing. 

I am still trying very hard not to let this things overtake me. I'm still not sleeping great and my work is still suffering a bit. It's on my mind a lot. She gets frustrated with me because I bring it up "too much". We are supposed to start weekly, instead of bi-weekly counceling sessions soon so I'm hoping that will help. A set time to talk about what I'm feeling will help me and her I think. That way I don't feel like I have to bring it up all the time and she's not feeling like I bring it up all the time. She's not going to bring it up on her own, I know that for sure. I do feel like she still downplays the severity of what she has done to me some, and that she should be more thoughtful and caring of what I am going through. But then again, I'm not sure there is anything she can do when I'm feeling crappy to make me feel better. It kind of just comes and goes. So maybe I'm just reading into that too much. 

Anyway, there's my update. Like I said, cautiosly optomistic.


----------



## Harken Banks

CGguy said:


> We haven't really touched much on the affair in the sessions yet, more of how we got to that point and what our goals are now.


Bad sign. Bad counselor.


----------



## Harken Banks

CGguy said:


> (work/family). I'm still not sleeping great and my work is still suffering a bit. It's on my mind a lot. She gets frustrated with me because I bring it up "too much".


I was also told to let it go, without me or the counselor knowing what it was that I was supposed to let go. And that then it was my fault the problems in the marriage because I could not let it go. Well, "it" turned out to be much more horrific than anything I ever imagined. Fire the MC. Do not let it go. In my case, the MC, my wife, and her affair partner had conspired to convince me that the problem was my obsessiveness and inability to let it go.


----------



## warlock07

warlock07 said:


> alert! Alert!* It mostly sounds like she talked to him after she dumped you and he wouldn't consider her full term beyond a quick affair or a short fling*. ()
> 
> This affair will definitely resume. You are the backup choice. Start the 180. Unless she begs you to, you have no chance of saving this marriage. Hardcore 180. Looks like your wife respects only those she has to chase. The OM is the forbidden fruit while you are waiting in the background ready to take her back without much fuss and console her immediately



My post last time. How did you make sure this wasn't the case? Have you checked her calls that night ? A couple of hard question now might save a lot of years in your life.

Also, bad counselor. She probably know you keylogged her computer



> She gets frustrated with me because I bring it up "too much".





> I do feel like she still downplays the severity of what she has done to me some, and that she should be more thoughtful and caring of what I am going through.


Bad signs


----------



## snap

Harken Banks said:


> Bad sign. Bad counselor.


:iagree:

Amounts to discussing Feng Shui while carefully walking around the elephant in the room.


----------



## Shaggy

Your counsellor is a rug sweeper... Don't go there because while it seems like an easy conflict free path, it leaves the affair unresolved and often sets up the circumstances for the next affair down the road.


----------



## turnera

Shaggy said:


> Your counsellor is a rug sweeper... Don't go there because while it seems like an easy conflict free path, it leaves the affair unresolved and often sets up the circumstances for the next affair down the road.


Not necessarily. I've seen a lot of counselors who will take it slow the first 3 or 4 sessions so that the aggressor doesn't bolt.

My own MC brought my H in in the pretense of 'helping' me deal with MY issues, because she knew he wouldn't agree to MC. And didn't bring up HIS stuff for 4 sessions.


----------



## fishfast41

mrbeats said:


> "Limiting" spouses in my opinion can have negative impacts in the long term.. Just my 2 cents


spouses should limit themselves..it's a part of the marriage commitment


----------



## CGguy

Another update. I have been keeping very close tabs on my wifes emails/facebook chats the last couple months. I am confident she has not broken NC since we started going to counseling (2 months ago). Other than a few blowups and some major anxiety on my part things have been really good these last two months. She seems very committed again and seems to be over all her selfish ways, but I still feel like she is not being honest with herself and her feelings, or past feelings for OG. It scares me because I know that if she doesn't confront these feelings then they will just come back. 

Now this. I found out yesterday that a year ago they had kissed while she was out with her friends. She had admitted this in an old email to her best friend. Now mind you, I was under the impression that all this was, was an EA, that nothing physical happened. All texts and emails. What really pisses me off is that when I first found out about them contacting each other behind my back through texting and emails back in December 2011 I told her I wanted her to come clean with everything. She said I knew everything. Then, she spent from December to June in NC, trying to tell me that they were just friends. By the end of May into June I was the controlling and paranoid husband who was making something out of nothing. At least that is what she had me and everyone else convinced of. Then she started contacting him again from June to July, same thing. I told her to tell me everything. She said she had. Then she broke NC after a week, and I find out they were sexting each other (she says first and only time)....lies...omit...lies...omit. She tells me that this kissing session was only the one time and that she felt really guilty about it but that she had "checked out" of our marriage at that point. She also had way too much to drink..blah...blah...blah... 

I don't know. We have been making really good progress over the last two months. She tells me that she's been happier than she's been in a long time. But now I find out about this. Is it only kissing? It happened a year ago, should I just be happy that she seems committed now and let it go? Her emails seem to corroborate this, but I guess I'll never know for sure. It really makes me angry because I feel like we were starting over, but under false pretences. I don't know if I can get over this one. Am I making too big of deal over a kiss (assuming that is all it was)?


----------



## turnera

"Wife, have you ever kissed OM?"

No.

"Wife, I KNOW you have kissed OM, so you just failed my sh!t test by lying to me. I'm not pleased. What are we going to do about this?"

Yes.

"Wife, I'm glad you told the truth. Now I can feel better about trusting us to move forward."


----------



## CGguy

turnera said:


> "Wife, have you ever kissed OM?"
> 
> No.
> 
> "Wife, I KNOW you have kissed OM, so you just failed my sh!t test by lying to me. I'm not pleased. What are we going to do about this?"
> 
> Yes.
> 
> "Wife, I'm glad you told the truth. Now I can feel better about trusting us to move forward."


I already asked those questions repeatedly over the last 8-9 months. she lied every time. Until I confronted her with the evidence. I told her I emailed myself the emails a long time ago and just never saw it till now. 

The other best part is. Apparently she was drunk enough to do it in front of a bunch of her friends. Awsome right. That makes me look like a giant schmuck.


----------



## turnera

Well, I wouldn't stay with her, then. I'm sorry, but lying is lying. But that's just me.


----------



## snap

Yet another just a kiss story *sigh*

They kissed and sexted but never actually got around to doing it.

CGuy, you hang around here long enough, you know the score.


----------



## CGguy

No. I hear you snap. I'm just trying to not flip out and look at this rationally. I do have to say. Most of the emails that I saw back up her story, but who the hell knows though. How the hell am I supposed to trust this woman again? 

She is basically telling me I shouldn't just throw away the progress we've made the last two months because I found out a day ago that they "just kissed" a whole year ago. ugh....man this sucks.


----------



## snap

Listen.

She made a decision not to disclose they kissed even when you asked to come clean, repeatedly. Now you found out, and the burden for this is somehow on you. It's like she's been putting the effort these two months, and you blew it.

Did you notice when the table got turned?

She thinks she knows better, and she doesn't respect enough your need to know. You have to show her she is wrong, but I'm afraid you're out of non-painful options for that.


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> She is basically telling me I shouldn't just throw away the progress we've made the last two months because I found out a day ago that they "just kissed" a whole year ago. ugh....man this sucks.


 Do you know what's missing in this story?

HER HAVING TO *EARN* YOU BACK.


----------



## Shaggy

Time for a visit to Mr.Polygraph I think.

You've been trickle trusted and lied to. Time for the big gun. When she throws out the giving up all your progress card throw back his tt undermines everything.


----------



## warlock07

> She is basically telling me I shouldn't just throw away the progress we've made the last two months because I found out a day ago that they "just kissed" a whole year ago. ugh....man this sucks.


Only proves that she will lie and keep continuing to lie if that is the best thing for her.


----------



## turnera

Her idea of progress is you no longer bugging her about what she did.


----------



## snap

My wife on DD#1 was also swearing it was just sexting for the months prior. It didn't make any sense for people who have ample opportunity to meet in person to keep it at sexting for so long. I couldn't buy it even though I wanted badly to believe it. And of course it was a lie.

There are no polygraphs where I live. If you have an opportunity to test her, go for it.


----------



## Will_Kane

If I understand your previous posts correctly, she hasn't even offered you her passwords.

It seems that you are doing all of the work and she is just along for the ride.

She is happier than she's been in a long time - good to hear that. How about you?


----------



## Will_Kane

What was her reason for not telling you the truth and repeatedly lying to you?


----------



## Will_Kane

If she lied to you about a kiss, why would she tell you the truth about sex?


----------



## Will_Kane

CGguy said:


> *She is basically telling me I shouldn't just throw away the progress we've made the last two months because I found out a day ago that they "just kissed" a whole year ago*.


That's it? No, "I'm so sorry for lying to you"? Basically, just telling you to ignore the fact that she lied to you and move on?

If you're not sure whether or not there was sex from reading her emails and texts, there probably was sex.

I don't buy any of her story about just one kiss. She was texting him nonstop for at least two months before you caught her in December 2011 and the kiss happened last September? In between September and December she had numerous girls nights out with a toxic friend as the toxic friend's wingwoman? Toxic friend knew all about the other man and encouraged it? Your wife has lied to you time and again that there was never any physical contact? Now, yesterday, you found out she kissed because you saw it mentioned in an email, so now of course she admits to just one kiss and only one kiss? And you somehow still believe she did not have sex with this guy?

Grownups who sext each other and have physical access to each other for three-plus months do not stop at one kiss one time and then only text each other for three plus months after the initial kiss, not if they are able to meet up.

On top of everything else, she had the nerve to make you out to be the controlling bad guy for all those months after you caught her because it was not physical, only flirt-texting? FLIRT-TEXTING?

Without proof one way or another - for example, a text from back in December saying "I'm glad we never had sex" or a text saying "That was some great sex we had" - without that type of proof one way or another - and given that they kissed a year ago - and given that they were constantly "flirt-texting" after that kiss - and given that they had plenty of opportunity to meet up on girls nights out as well as any other time your wife was out of your sight - and given that they had an affair cheerleader in your wife's toxic friend to whom your wife was the wingwoman on her drunken girls nights out to meat markets - how could you believe that your wife and other man did not have sex? 

If you believe they did not have sex, what is the basis for your belief? What is your reasoning for believing there was no sex?


----------



## CGguy

Will_Kane said:


> If I understand your previous posts correctly, she hasn't even offered you her passwords.
> 
> It seems that you are doing all of the work and she is just along for the ride.
> 
> She is happier than she's been in a long time - good to hear that. How about you?


I'm destroyed. For the last couple months I haven't been able to enjoy anything. I don't feel comfortable...ever. Unless I've had a few and can relax a little. I have to take sleeping pills to sleep and even then, I have such bad nightmares I usually wake up at 4AM and can't get back to sleep. I can't work, or be emotionally available for my daughter the way I should be. I basically feel like a walking zombie, a shell of my former self if that makes any sense. But I guess, she didn't like my former self so maybe that is why she has been happy.


----------



## CGguy

Will_Kane said:


> On top of everything else, she had the nerve to make you out to be the controlling bad guy for all those months after you caught her because it was not physical, only flirt-texting? FLIRT-TEXTING?
> 
> Without proof one way or another - for example, a text from back in December saying "I'm glad we never had sex" or a text saying "That was some great sex we had" - without that type of proof one way or another - and given that they kissed a year ago - and given that they were constantly "flirt-texting" after that kiss - and given that they had plenty of opportunity to meet up on girls nights out as well as any other time your wife was out of your sight - and given that they had an affair cheerleader in your wife's toxic friend to whom your wife was the wingwoman on her drunken girls nights out to meat markets - how could you believe that your wife and other man did not have sex?
> 
> If you believe they did not have sex, what is the basis for your belief? What is your reasoning for believing there was no sex?


I get what you are saying. I do. That is why this is so hard to get over everything. No, I don't think she would tell me if they had sex. She didn't tell me they kissed because she didn't want to hurt me anymore than I already am. So her telling me about sex? No way. Do I feel in my gut that they had sex? No it doesn't. And my gut has been pretty right on during this whole thing. Not saying I can't be wrong here, but from all the correspondence I have seen, and I have seen a lot, I have never seen anything that would suggest that happened.

We discussed this last night and she is waiting for a response from me on whether I can forgive her or not. The texting, emails, lying, now kissing...I'm not sure I can. I feel so disrespected and cheated right now. I really have to think about it some more. But the ball is in my court right now. Just not sure what to do with it I guess. 

So how do I go about this now? Lie detector I guess would be the only way. I don't know if there is anyone around here that does that, but I can look into it. Has anyone ever done that before?


----------



## OldWolf57

You are destroyed, yet still want to keep this lying woman???

What has happened to the toxic friend ?? After this confession, you should really put your foot down on cutting the friend out of your lives.
There is no way she didn't tell her. So she is no friend of your marriage. 
But then, we told you that, but you wouldn't listen. They got their laughs at your expense, and called you controlling all the while encouraging and helping your wife to cheat on you.

Do you have all passwords yet ??


----------



## CGguy

OldWolf57 said:


> You are destroyed, yet still want to keep this lying woman???
> 
> What has happened to the toxic friend ?? After this confession, you should really put your foot down on cutting the friend out of your lives.
> There is no way she didn't tell her. So she is no friend of your marriage.
> But then, we told you that, but you wouldn't listen. They got their laughs at your expense, and called you controlling all the while encouraging and helping your wife to cheat on you.
> 
> Do you have all passwords yet ??


Yeah I do. That is how I found out they had kissed. From what she said in the email to her friend (who actually wasn't there that night) she was overly intoxicated when it happened. Not that that is any excuse that I accept. So I printed out the email and made her read it this morning. She said she realizes after reading the emails back how her and her best friend fed off each other at the time. Her friend was in the middle of getting a divorce, and obviously my wife was unhappy and looking for attention. She said she was addicted to the way he made her feel, but that addiction is now gone. She said her and the OG did try to hook up for some drinks a couple times, but that their schedules didn't match up and plus I was always on the lookout, which she is right about. He travels a lot for his job so he is out of town for weeks at a time apparently. 

She said her feelings for him have changed. She realizes that what she thought was real between him and her was not. But that at the time, she was questioning our marriage so much she would have seen him again. And that things would have probably progressed passed just kisses. I guess I respect her honesty in telling me that. It couldn't have been easy for her to say that to me. Especially when she can see I'm so close to throwing in the towel.  

I don't think her friend is the issue here. My wife is. I always looked at my wife as a very independant, strong person. Those are the things that attracted me to her. Obviously, at least for a time, I was very wrong about that. But, can/how do I move on from this? That is the question I keep asking myself. Can I, at least for the time being, look past this discovery and continue trying to build our marriage and go to counseling? I honestly don't know the answer to that right now. I keep turning it over and over in my mind and keep coming up empty. It seems like she realizes finally that she has royally screwed up, possibly beyond repair. She is definitely worried that I am going to leave her. And quite frankly, she should be worried.


----------



## OldWolf57

Well. you have stuck it out this far, and if you feel she is finally seeing the hurt she caused, you and her might try reading " Serviving an Affair" or any other books that your MC recommend.
But what it is going to come down to is YOU. After all this drama, what do you have to lose when you are so close to getting what you want.


----------



## CGguy

OldWolf57 said:


> Well. you have stuck it out this far, and if you feel she is finally seeing the hurt she caused, you and her might try reading " Serviving an Affair" or any other books that your MC recommend.
> But what it is going to come down to is YOU. After all this drama, what do you have to lose when you are so close to getting what you want.


Thanks Old Wolf. She is not big on the whole self help book thing, but I will give it a go. I have been reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. There are some really good things in that book, but some things that obviously don't pertain. The marriage counselor said she would work with me on how to calmly get over some the real anxious times, expecially when I'm at work. Using some breathing and pressure point techniques. I figure that could be helpful either way this turns out. I think though, that it is time we bring up some of her feelings and shortcomings in these meetings, not just mine.

I realize that this is about me. That is why I am trying to not rush this decision. My gut is telling me that there is too much pain and should split, me heart is telling me I still love her and want to work on our marriage, and my brain is thoroughly confused. I do think she finally sees exactly how much hurt she has caused. And she is very sorry. I think for a long time she new what she was doing was wrong, but her needing that fix this guy was giving her far out weighed my feelings. She is sinscere when she tells me that she is sorry and wants more than anything for us to work. I can see it in her eyes. The reason I can see it so clearly now is because for a while, it wasn't there. I don't know. Really, thanks for the advice though.


----------



## OldWolf57

If she is so sorry, then she should be reading and doing all she can to help you heal.
Sounding like she wants to rug sweep.
If she was to do some reading, she would know exactly how you are feeling having found out she lied about the kiss.


----------



## Shaggy

I hope when you say the ball is in your court, and she is waiting to hear if you forgive her - that this is entirely on your schedule and she isn't saying something like "You need to forgive me here and now, or I'm leaving" is she?


----------



## The bishop

You are allowing all this to happen and you are never going to get over it. Do you like how you feel? 

Why are you allowing her to go out without you after finding out initially?
Why does she still hang and talk to her toxic friend?
Why haven't you exposed this A, and contacted the OM and his girlfriend? 
Why are you allowing you WW to call the shots?

She has never had many consequences for her actions. Re-read that. I think she knows that you are spineless and will take her back and that is why she keeps trying to contact OM. She doesn't respect you and will do this again, maybe not today, tomorrow, but someday. 

Good luck your going to need it.


----------



## river rat

CGuy, it seems from your posts that you really want to R w/ her. The question is, can you ever trust her? Trust, once broken, is difficult to reestablish, and may take years. Do you have the emotional stamina for that? I think the polygraph is a good suggestion, so that at least, you'll know where you're starting. If she balks at that, it tells you that she's continuing to lie, and there's a lot more.


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> I'm destroyed. For the last couple months I haven't been able to enjoy anything. I don't feel comfortable...ever. Unless I've had a few and can relax a little. I have to take sleeping pills to sleep and even then, I have such bad nightmares I usually wake up at 4AM and can't get back to sleep. I can't work, or be emotionally available for my daughter the way I should be. I basically feel like a walking zombie, a shell of my former self if that makes any sense. But I guess, she didn't like my former self so maybe that is why she has been happy.


 Are you on antidepressants?


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> No, I don't think she would tell me if they had sex. She didn't tell me they kissed because she didn't want to hurt me anymore than I already am.


OH.MY.GOD. Are you REALLY that naive? Do you really think that the REASON she didn't tell you about the kiss was to save YOU pain?

Come on, CG. Really?

Are you so out of touch with reality that you honestly think she's a sweet innocent loving wife who cares more about you than herself and just 'found' herself in this situation and couldn't get out of it without hurting someone's feelings, so she just carried the burden of guilt on her shoulders to save you pain?

Good lord.


----------



## turnera

CGguy said:


> She is not big on the whole self help book thing, but I will give it a go.


You're not getting it. 

You SAY the ball is in your court. You SAY that she's waiting to hear from you if you will R.

You SAY that she wants you to forgive her. 

Yet you say NOTHING about you giving her a set of DEMANDS on what it would take for you TO forgive her and R. If it's in your court, she doesn't get to DECIDE if she 'is big on self help' or not. She either does what you want, or you leave her.


----------



## turnera

Look. You obviously love her and want her. But you need to protect yourself.

So here's a plan you can live with, to get you both.

You tell her that you will not move back in together. You tell her that you expect her to be in IC for at least the next 12 months, as you will also. You tell her that you expect her to attend MC with you at least once a month for the next 12 months. You tell her that, if she really loves you, she will wait out the next 12 months without engaging in any manner (outside of work) with any other man, and you will be doing the same regarding women. You tell her that you and she will go out together roughly every two weeks while this is going on, to see if you can rekindle a good healthy relationship. You tell her that you expect her to read at least one self-help book a month, that you two agree on, and you will do the same, so you can both learn what a healthy marriage looks like, and you will discuss it on your dates or in MC. You tell her that, next summer (if it lasts that long), you two will sit down and discuss whether it's viable to move back in together and plan to spend the next 50 years together. 

You can 'spend' this one next year on the homework to get the payoff of a good marriage for the future.

If she won't do that, then she just wants your money.


----------



## CGguy

Shaggy said:


> I hope when you say the ball is in your court, and she is waiting to hear if you forgive her - that this is entirely on your schedule and she isn't saying something like "You need to forgive me here and now, or I'm leaving" is she?


No she is not saying that.


----------



## CGguy

OldWolf57 said:


> If she is so sorry, then she should be reading and doing all she can to help you heal.
> Sounding like she wants to rug sweep.
> If she was to do some reading, she would know exactly how you are feeling having found out she lied about the kiss.


Well, I just saw a msg. between her and her best friend. Her best friend was trying to convince her to tell me everything. Fresh start type thing. Then my wife tells her there is no way she's telling me about some lunch her and OG had together<<< ouch.
But....she also said to her friend that she knows she screwed up royally and that she wants our marriage to work more than anything. She also said she doesn't have the same feelings for the OG anymore, and that she has fallen back in love with me. So here is what I did...

I waited a couple hours and fired off an email to her. Basically I said here's the deal, "I know you are not coming clean with everything. I want you to think about whether or not lying about what happened is worth your marriage ending. What I need to recover is total honesty. Pretend that I know everything already but need to hear it out of your mouth.". I was more descriptive than that, but you get the picture. I also told her that I was giving her one more chance. Any lies at all, and I'm gone. Period. And, I will be. 

She then wrote me back and said that she was hoping that copping to some things would enable the rest to just go away (Rug Sweeping). But that if I was open to listening and not quitting on our marriage when she tells me then she wants to talk. Then she messaged her friend back and said she was going to tell me everything. 

I'm a little nervous about what she is going to say. But at this point all I can do is listen and go from there.


----------



## princess_peach

Hi I'm really sorry to but in on this thread but can anyone tell me HOW to post? am i being stupid? I registered but can't see how I can post a problem on here. Would appreciate some guidance from anyone please?

apologies again


----------



## Complexity

go back to the main page of the coping with infidelity section, top left "new thread" tab


----------



## MarriedTex

CGguy said:


> Well, I just saw a msg. between her and her best friend. Her best friend was trying to convince her to tell me everything. Fresh start type thing. Then my wife tells her there is no way she's telling me about some lunch her and OG had together<<< ouch.
> But....she also said to her friend that she knows she screwed up royally and that she wants our marriage to work more than anything. She also said she doesn't have the same feelings for the OG anymore, and that she has fallen back in love with me. So here is what I did...
> 
> I waited a couple hours and fired off an email to her. Basically I said here's the deal, "I know you are not coming clean with everything. I want you to think about whether or not lying about what happened is worth your marriage ending. What I need to recover is total honesty. Pretend that I know everything already but need to hear it out of your mouth.". I was more descriptive than that, but you get the picture. I also told her that I was giving her one more chance. Any lies at all, and I'm gone. Period. And, I will be.
> 
> She then wrote me back and said that she was hoping that copping to some things would enable the rest to just go away (Rug Sweeping). But that if I was open to listening and not quitting on our marriage when she tells me then she wants to talk. Then she messaged her friend back and said she was going to tell me everything.
> 
> I'm a little nervous about what she is going to say. But at this point all I can do is listen and go from there.


Ahead of her coming clean, display some commitment to talk through things fully. Suggest that you schedule regular MC sessions for you to both digest what she is going to disclose to you.

This way, you have pre-scheduled (and refereed) environment for you to work through the issues she is going to put on the table. Essentially, this is insurance that the dialogue will continue - even after her revelations. Should way to illustrate that you're willing to work on things but also give you and her a venue to keep her from rug-sweeping her actions, once admitted.


----------



## CGguy

MarriedTex said:


> Ahead of her coming clean, display some commitment to talk through things fully. Suggest that you schedule regular MC sessions for you to both digest what she is going to disclose to you.
> 
> This way, you have pre-scheduled (and refereed) environment for you to work through the issues she is going to put on the table. Essentially, this is insurance that the dialogue will continue - even after her revelations. Should way to illustrate that you're willing to work on things but also give you and her a venue to keep her from rug-sweeping her actions, once admitted.


We started counseling a few weeks ago. BTW, she flat out lied to the marriage counselor too on our first visit. She told her she was only in verbal contact with this guy. I'm freaking out a little bit here. If she tells me she slept with this guy then this has to be over. I don't forgive that.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

But she owes it to you to give you that info so you can make the choice.


----------



## CGguy

Unsure in Seattle said:


> But she owes it to you to give you that info so you can make the choice.


Exactly what I said. I told her it was unfair to me and that it undermines any progress we make in the marriage because it was all built off of lies.


----------



## Will_Kane

CGguy said:


> Well, I just saw a msg. between her and her best friend. Her best friend was trying to convince her to tell me everything. Fresh start type thing. Then my wife tells her there is no way she's telling me about some lunch her and OG had together<<< ouch.
> But....she also said to her friend that she knows she screwed up royally and that she wants our marriage to work more than anything. She also said she doesn't have the same feelings for the OG anymore, and that she has fallen back in love with me. So here is what I did...
> 
> I waited a couple hours and fired off an email to her. Basically I said here's the deal, "I know you are not coming clean with everything. I want you to think about whether or not lying about what happened is worth your marriage ending. What I need to recover is total honesty. Pretend that I know everything already but need to hear it out of your mouth.". I was more descriptive than that, but you get the picture. I also told her that I was giving her one more chance. Any lies at all, and I'm gone. Period. And, I will be.
> 
> She then wrote me back and said that she was hoping that copping to some things would enable the rest to just go away (Rug Sweeping). But that if I was open to listening and not quitting on our marriage when she tells me then she wants to talk. Then she messaged her friend back and said she was going to tell me everything.
> 
> I'm a little nervous about what she is going to say. But at this point all I can do is listen and go from there.


So now you found out even more lies.

Lunch with him, full on sex or oral in one of their cars afterward.

No matter what, you should demand a polygraph after the number of lies that you've been told. That looking into her eyes thing to see if she's been telling the truth has not been working. Given how many opportunities they've had to hook up, confessing to anything less than multiple sexual liaisons must be dismissed out of hand. Push her until you get the full confession or else ask her to take a polygraph. Her not having multiple sexual encounters with this guy is theoretically possible but completely unbelievable.

Also, did I read that right before, that your marriage counseling to date has been spent only discussing your shortcomings and not hers?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

If she knows PA is a deal breaker for you, you are very unlikely to hear her confessing to that.


----------



## turnera

Does she know already that PA is your hill to die on?


----------



## CGguy

snap said:


> If she knows PA is a deal breaker for you, you are very unlikely to hear her confessing to that.


Well, here's the thing. I'm sure it didn't get as far as sex. Not that it wouldn't have at some point a year ago if there were a chance. Things were pretty bad between us. Then they got better. Then worse. Then better. Now here we are, dealing with the ramifications of it all. But I would have seen that come through on her FB messages between her and her friend for sure. They tell each other everything. It sounds like it was a secret lunch and maybe hand-holding/talking. Not sure about that though. Whatever it was, it sounds like it is something she definitely did not want to put out there. Although she is telling me it isn't as bad as I think. Guess I'll find out tonight. Worse case, I'll get the truth between her friend and her on FB tomorrow to see if she is telling the truth. If it turns out she is telling me the truth, and fesses up to everything, then I'm going to put aside the snooping for a while. Check up every so often. I would like to move forward from all of this and not have to resort to snooping to get info. It's exhausting to keep feeling like I have to check up on her to get the truth. I really don't want to spend the rest of my life like that.


----------



## CGguy

turnera said:


> Does she know already that PA is your hill to die on?


I think she knows that. But she told her friend that she was going to tell me everything. So we'll see what *everything* is.


----------



## Will_Kane

Is there any consequence for lying to you? Has there ever [email protected]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

Will_Kane said:


> Is there any consequence for lying to you? Has there ever [email protected]
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. I told her if I get even one lie from her then we are through.


----------



## CGguy

And that there will be no more reason for counseling, because counseling will not work if only one of us is being honest.


----------



## Will_Kane

CGguy said:


> Yes. I told her if I get even one lie from her then we are through.


She has lied to you repeatedly and just did so again yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CGguy

Will_Kane said:


> She has lied to you repeatedly and just did so again yesterday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. But I never gave her the ultimatem before. Guess I should have. Maybe at the time I was more afraid of her answer, so I didn't push as hard as I should have. But I'm pushing now. We'll see what happens.

She is still telling me she didn't tell me everything because she thought I would leave, and she doesn't want me to. And she thought that if I knew everything it would make recovery harder. Her words, not mine.


----------



## turnera

So?


----------



## Will_Kane

*FROM YOUR VERY FIRST POST ON 12/19/2011*


CGguy said:


> So I confronted her about it right away and she admitted that she had been texting back and forth with this man for two months. My first instinct was to leave. I was so hurt, and so pissed I couldn't even look at her. I asked her if she ever met up with him and she said no. It was only texting and nothing sexual, just a little flirting.
> 
> Now, I have read some other posts on here so I know what a lot of people say about the emotional affairs and such. And I know a lot of people will say b.s. she's met up with him at some point. I don't know if this was an emotional affair, but I'll tell you, it hurts almost as bad as if she was sleeping with him. Maybe I'm just being too sensitive about it. From calming down a little and talking with her I am 95% sure that I found out before it went past texting (I checked phone records, facebook, and no phone calls or facebook messages were made, just texts that I can see). She was fully aware she did something wrong and appologized profusely and told me she would do anything to make it better. She told me it was her lack of self esteem that drove the texting, that she was looking for attention (I give her tons of attention by the way). I explained to her that she had broken the trust between us, and how do I know that I could believe her. She called what she did stupid, and that she came out right away because she felt guilty about it. I don't know what to believe now. I'm so confused. My anxiety is through the roof right now.
> 
> One other contributing factor I think I should mention is that she has a newly divorced friend that is back in town, and looking to go out everynight and basically needs a wingwomen. I'm not sure if this friend of hers encouraged this hookup or not, but she definitely did not help the situation (I saw texts to my wife that read something about my wife meeting up with the dude the night before, Friday when they were out together). This sudden tight relationship with her friend originally opened my eyes to something going on. They are texting each other like 40 times a day, its ridiculous.
> 
> So after thinking about it for day and getting over my initial rage about it, *I told her calmly yesterday that first, all contact with this guy was to stop right away or I was gone.* Second, I told her that if our marriage was going to work we needed no more secrets between us. Third, I told her that I did not want to share her with anyone else, emotionally or physically. End of story. Do you guys think I did the right thing? I am still feeling really wounded by this. Any other opinions/suggestions?


*CGuy, this is from your very first post. Is that blue underlined part not an ultimatum?*

*This next part is from your post on 7/13/2012:*

_Hi everyone. I wish I could say I was glad to be back on here, but alas, I am in need of some more advice. Since January, I went through a couple months of hell. Mostly inside my head. Playing everything over and over. Losing sleep, stressing out etc. I slowly started to feel better. Not fully trusting her yet but working on it. Her attitude towards me improved dramatically. She was very patient with me during my recovery and I honestly felt she was ashamed of her actions and did make the effort to gain my trust back. After many talks I do believe this "relationship" never got past text msg's. But I did know there was some feelings there, at least on her part, however little they were. Definitely more than friends, which is what she kept telling me these feelings were. *Fast forward to today. I found out that she has been contacting him again*. This time through email so there was no trace of their communication. Ugh, I'm so dejected. Just when I thought my duties of detective were over and I let my guard down she burns me again. Over the last month I felt a change in her attitude towards me again. Distant, even from my daughter (her step daughter). I started having nightmares again and started asking her if everything was okay. Which I always got the "of course". Well, while she was upstairs getting ready for a meeting tonight I scoped out her phone. She and her Friend (yes the same one that perpetuated this relationship before) had a long back and forth conversation about him, and how guilty my wife feels. To sum the conversation up, she was telling her how she's an awful person, she has feelings for this kid, she'd be ashamed if her mother/family found out that this is the reason we split up. That pretty much sums it up. At least from what I remember now. I'm crushed. It feels like I'm right back at square one except this time I'm a little less suprised and a little more pist. How could she do this again? Where do I go from here? She wants to talk tonight when she gets home. She says she's still in love with me, but confused. Reading this conversation between her and her friend it doesn't sound like she's confused. I'm so alone in this. I need some good advice. Please help._

I am trying to help you. 

Every time she lies to you, you give her no consequences and you give her another chance.

In my opinion, you have ignored all the useful advice you have been given. Also in my opinion, you are no further along toward reconciliation now than when you started back in December.

It would not surprise me at all if your wife still was in contact with the other man. I am very sure that she had sex with him, because I am not burdened by how sincerely she has told me she hasn't, and I am not burdened by the sincerity in her eyes, nor by what a loving, nice, great, honest person she used to be. All I see is a cheating liar. Or a lying cheater. Either way, I don't see the good in her that you do. If she has any redeeming qualities, they haven't come across well in your posts. And all I see is what is written in your posts. If she hasn't had sex with him, what is all the lying about? A kiss and a lunch date? Can you blame me for thinking what I think?

Please re-read the advice you have been given about enforcing consequences, getting rid of the toxic friend, exposure, transparency, no contact letter, polygraph, and all the rest.

Your instincts have been wrong just about every step of the way. If every instinct you have has been wrong, maybe you should start doing the opposite.

I will not bother you again with my posts. I am sorry for the pain she is causing you and I hope you are able to move on and heal, one way or another. Good luck.


----------



## bizzy79

Hi. Sorry to jump in, but I have just read all the posts on this thread (over the last couple of days). It has a few similarities to my story, which I must update or re-do soon as alot more has happened since I originally posted (under a different username I think) (things have happened quite recently, which is why I am back on here I guess haha). I certainly wish I had found this forum when my story began, as I would have handled things a lot better than I did- I am still paying the price 4 years later.

I really feel your pain CGuy, and I really hope that things went ok for you when you spoke yesterday. I am sure I am not the only person who would like to hear how things have worked out for you in the last day or so.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

CGguy said:


> Yep. But I never gave her the ultimatem before. Guess I should have. Maybe at the time I was more afraid of her answer, so I didn't push as hard as I should have. But I'm pushing now. We'll see what happens.


You don't, or should have to, give an ultimatum. You can walk out that door any time you want, for any reason you want and you don’t have to answer to her about why. Stop thinking she is in control.


> She is still telling me she didn't tell me everything because she thought I would leave, and she doesn't want me to. And she thought that if I knew everything it would make recovery harder. Her words, not mine.


Lying is just as bad as cheating because it shows you can't trust her. She is your wife and suppose to have your back and she does not. If you can't trust your spouse then there's no point in staying with them.


----------



## turnera

CG, out of all the people I've seen here who leave bad marriages over the last ten years, not a single one of them has come back and said they made a mistake. They always say the kids turned out fine, and were in fact happier, and they always say they either found someone a LOT better or that they were enjoying dating. NONE of them wished they had stayed longer. They all kicked themselves for waiting so LONG to leave. It's the fear of the unknown. But IME, the fear if foundless.


----------



## Chaparral

One of the Candian guys posted about how bad the kids were doing. His wife tried everything to reconcile but he could not do it.

Statistically, divorce is a disaster for the kids.


----------



## turnera

Well, in a perfect world, BOTH parties would take marriage seriously. But in this generation, the ME generation, odds are good that ONE of you is going to please yourself come hell or high water, no matter WHAT it does to the kids. That leaves the other parent to decide to become a lobotomized doormat and just make it through the next 10-20 years to raise the kids, or divorce and focus on making sure your kids feel loved and safe and secure as possible in two homes.

My DD22 told me recently that she wished I HAD left my husband; I stayed for her, so she wouldn't have a broken family. But I couldn't pull myself out of my depression and funk and misery to be a good enough mother to her, or to stand up to her dad.


----------



## sinnister

Staying for the kids is an irrational and almost insane rational...yet here we are....

The kids are almost always better off in a household where fighting is gone and love and respect are restored even with new spouses.


----------



## CGguy

Hey everyone. I had some free time at work today and thought I would post an update (one year later than my original post) to how things are going for me know. So against the advice of many on here I decided to stay with my wife and work through it. We sought counseling after I left (only for one night) and she had her wake up call and I'm pleased to say that we are in a much better place in our marriage now. The trust has been slowly coming back and both of us are much more aware of each others feelings now. The counseling has really worked wonders. I wish that we had done it long ago, although I'm not sure it would of had the same impact back then as it did while we were teetering on divorce and her having an affair. But at this point, I don't care how we got here, I'm just glad we are here :smthumbup:

There are way too many details about how we were able to patch things up, but I figured I would throw out the offer to discuss any of it with you if you think it would help your situation. After all the pain, sleepless nights, migraines, weight loss, loss of hair etc. etc. that I have been through over the last year, I figure maybe I can help someone else if they need it. 

The moral of this story is that you can come back from something like this and come out stronger on the other side. My wife and I are examples of that from both sides of an affair. Time will always tell all, but for now we are both really happy and that is such an improvement from this time last year. Thanks all for your suggestions and your good thoughts. I did and do appreciate them.


----------



## BjornFree

Did she finally come clean about her affair? Do you have all the details you need? Or did you rugsweep the entire issue just so you could R?


----------



## CGguy

BjornFree said:


> Did she finally come clean about her affair? Do you have all the details you need? Or did you rugsweep the entire issue just so you could R?


Yes. She came clean with everything and has been in NC with him since July of last year. Yes, through many discussions and Counseling sessions we have discussed everything. She got to a point in our relationship where she didn't trust me with her feelings any longer. She held many, many resentments and felt very alone. There was *NO* rug sweeping any longer. While I will never say our marriage is perfect (what one is), I will say we both have gotten back the mutual respect that we had lost along the way.


----------



## bugmenot

CG, I've followed your story. Did your wife have sex with the POSOM or was it EA/Kissing?


----------



## CGguy

bugmenot said:


> CG, I've followed your story. Did your wife have sex with the POSOM or was it EA/Kissing?


Thankfully, no sex. But my wife has admitted to me that there was no doubt it was heading that way. And if certain things had worked out and they had had the opportunity she was not strong enough in our relationship at that point to stop it from happening.

I finally came to the conclusion that as hard as it was to hear her saying it, I needed to hear these things from her. And it was good for her to get them off of her chest as well. That way we could both see what our poor relationship skills had done to our marriage and ensure that it never happened again. Like I said, neither of us are perfect and we still make mistakes, but counseling has really helped to give us the tools to make sure these mistakes don't turn into resentments for the other person. 

It's a work in progress. There are still times where I get those feelings of insecurity and jealousy. But as time goes on they get fewer and fewer.


----------



## bugmenot

Glad to hear you are repairing things. Is her toxic friend still prominently in the picture? Has she owned 100% of her actions and not blamed you for "forcing her into an EA/Kissing situation"? That is key.

Infidelity permanently extinguishes the light of total trust in anyone. I've seen this time and again. (Maybe not fully trusting anyone is a healthier way to live I don't know.) It has had the effect on me.


----------



## weightlifter

Is the following correct?

Cliff notes version:

Her big confession that night is that the only thing that kept it from going PA was logistics and opportunity. NO more kisses fondling etc. Basically the physical was a single drunken make out.


----------



## weightlifter

One thing that seems to be big now (Dont know about a year ago look at my start date) is upping your alpha/ dating value even if you dont use it. IE: MMSG and going to the gym. I dont see these mentioned.

Did you hit the gym? and read MMSG?


----------



## bugmenot

weightlifter said:


> One thing that seems to be big now (Dont know about a year ago look at my start date) is upping your alpha/ dating value even if you dont use it. IE: MMSG and going to the gym. I dont see these mentioned.
> 
> Did you hit the gym? and read MMSG?


what does MMSG, stand for?


----------



## Chaparral

:rofl:


bugmenot said:


> what does MMSG, stand for?


I think he meant MMSLP

MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. There is a link below.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Shaggy said:


> Time for a visit to Mr.Polygraph I think.
> 
> You've been trickle trusted and lied to. Time for the big gun. When she throws out the giving up all your progress card throw back his tt undermines everything.


Only way to know at this point. You know she is not to be trusted. This will either prove her story or force the truth out before they hook her up and she gets nervous and starts telling you the truth. If she starts telling hook her up to it anyway and get the rest out of her.


----------

