# Engagement & Living On/Off in Two Continents - Does That Work?



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

I am a male, early 30's, engaged to a US woman of the same age. I was born and raised in Europe, then moved to the US for the past 12 years. I consider both continents to be my home.

While I have been enjoying the US in my 20's (study, work, travel, enjoy life), my recent travels to Europe have made me reconsider some life directions. That is - my grandparents are my getting old and need help and I am not there, I am slowly losing contact with my parents and sibling as well (not part of weekly / monthly dinners, meetups, birthday parties), many of my friends that I grew up with have kids and are raising them in the same village I grew up in (a picturesque village in a mountainous region) with one set or both sets of their parents helping them out on a daily basis. 

I am now realizing that I will not have this environment and this kind of support and conversely, that I will not be able to help my own parents when they get old - if I stay in the US.

So - my professional life is in the US, where I have a reasonably good career in the high-tech industry and I am engaged to a great woman (smart, wise, sporty, well-educated, good family, faithful, not a smoker/drinker, loves to read books, and the list goes on). 

Over the past few years I have been more and more attracted back to Europe. A great social system, my family is there. 

Here is my dilemma:


If I stay in the US, I will likely never have the chance to take care of my family to the same extent like in Europe. I will rob my parents of the daily joys with my own family.
If I move to Europe, I will certainly lose the lady since the lady does not speak the language and wants to live close to her own family. Another downside - lower pay, the job won't be likely as engaging.



We do live on the East Coast (NC area) and make reasonably good money. We can certainly afford to fly to Europe each year.
The lady will not be stay home mom - wants to focus on her career as well.

Does anyone see a way to combine it all?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

No, one of you will have to compromise. There is no solution. I've done that and compromised (although only within Europe) Regretted it? No, but the price to pay is high, for all the reasons that you mention. You can fly back often, but it won't be the same. Also, you will slowly lose your identity. I guess you don't have children yet. A word of warning: once you have them, there is no turning back. Good luck!


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I spent a few years traveling over and back to Europe on a weekly basis but it was between major cities not the rural areas you are talking about.Eventually I started a ltr with my now wife and I started finding the travel annoying and exhausting.
You are talking about “robbing” your parents of the daily joys of your family.How do you think your parents would feel if they thought you gave up your life to look after them.
I think you are homesick and are building up this idyllic picture in your mind of your home,do you think your friends at home see it the same way.What sort of employment is there,is it agriculture or similar?
You will be making the biggest mistake of your life if you give up your career and return home.Why not ask some of your old friends whether they would prefer to be in your shoes or their own.
I once said to an old man that the scenery where he lived was spectacular.He said it was but it wasn’t very sustaining.In other words you couldn’t eat the view and had to make a living.
I wish you luck whatever you decide to do.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Engagement &amp; Living On/Off in Two Continents - Does That Work?*

I'm European, moved to the USA for grad school, got a job, etc. Here for 37 years. 

My parents came multiple times when they were around and told me in no uncertain terms to not come back. 

Of course, there's Europe and there is Europe. The country I come from isn't exactly the best economy wise, and my qualifications won't do me a lot of good there. Maybe teaching in a provincial university... Not my cuppa. I could work in "good Europe" I suppose but not keen on moving to Germany or France. Way too many people with my qualifications there, as Europe seems a bit more keen on producing PhD's...

If you're from the "good Europe", and your field of work can be used there, go back. If you're from the "meh Europe", or your line of work is not common there, stay in the USA.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> No, one of you will have to compromise. There is no solution. I've done that and compromised (although only within Europe) Regretted it? No, but the price to pay is high, for all the reasons that you mention. You can fly back often, but it won't be the same. Also, you will slowly lose your identity. I guess you don't have children yet. A word of warning: once you have them, there is no turning back. Good luck!


Thank you. I guess one cannot be in two places at the same time!

I have been slowly losing my identity, that's true. No kids yet, still have time to think. But years go by for both my and the lady.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

scienist2 said:


> Thank you. I guess one cannot be in two places at the same time!
> 
> I have been slowly losing my identity, that's true. No kids yet, still have time to think. But years go by for both my and the lady.


I remember your story from a few years ago. You learned back then that living apart is a relationship killer.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> I spent a few years traveling over and back to Europe on a weekly basis but it was between major cities not the rural areas you are talking about.Eventually I started a ltr with my now wife and I started finding the travel annoying and exhausting.
> You are talking about “robbing” your parents of the daily joys of your family.How do you think your parents would feel if they thought you gave up your life to look after them.
> I think you are homesick and are building up this idyllic picture in your mind of your home,do you think your friends at home see it the same way.What sort of employment is there,is it agriculture or similar?
> You will be making the biggest mistake of your life if you give up your career and return home.Why not ask some of your old friends whether they would prefer to be in your shoes or their own.
> ...


The rural area is just an hour away from the capital (a major city in Central Europe) so the flights are not that bad.

Employment wise it is actually rather good - there are all the international consulting and engineering companies I have think of and that matter. Salary might be maybe half what I have in the US but still plenty. Plus the government (ugh, the people of course) pays for pretty much anything related to healthcare or social services.

I did ask some of my friends. The situation is so unique that their input was valuable but not completely applicable.

It all boils down to... will I exchange the lady for my family?

Maybe there is another way. Perhaps we could raise a family in the US and travel to EU each year and then in mid 50s relocate to take care of my family? Or am I just fabulating?


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

*Re: Engagement &amp; Living On/Off in Two Continents - Does That Work?*



john117 said:


> I'm European, moved to the USA for grad school, got a job, etc. Here for 37 years.
> 
> My parents came multiple times when they were around and told me in no uncertain terms to not come back.
> 
> ...


John - I am in R&D - electrical & computer engineering. Plenty of well paid jobs all around in both places. And I do teach part-time at a university too (a hobby more or less).

My Europe is that "meh" one but is strong and up and coming, unlike the US, which is in a slow decline. Ten years back, the salary ratio was 1:4 in favor of the US, now it is 1:2. It might stabilize this way but the social system is so much more generous in Europe. So... this is not a career or money play.

Let me extrapolate a bit - will stay & have kids in the US. Will visit often and my brother's kids will visit us once in a while. 
Then, in 20 years, will go back to the EU to take care of my parents. Then they will die. Alternatively, what will I do if one of parents gets sick along the way?

Further down, my kids will be in the US who knows where. What will I do then? Stay in the US/EU? Live in both places at the same time? There is a severe lack of continuity should this path be followed.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

You're saying one option is to stay here, work, create a family, and then move back to Europe in 20 years, right? So what if, in 20 years, you have a 10 year old kid? You'll probably have older kids too but in 20 years from now, none of them will have reached the age of maturity. You do know, don't you, that you would be creating the same kind of scattered family that you set out to remedy?

While I admire you wanting to take care of your parents in their golden years, I have to say it sounds like your intended is really just an option to you. It doesn't sound like a devoted relationship if you're thinking about leaving her in order to take care of your parents. Your true feelings for her are what you really need to be examining. You owe that to yourself, but you also owe that to her. I don't think I would want to marry a guy who thinks of me as just an option like this. I deserve to know his true feelings.


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Losing your identity? That's a bit dramatic I think. USA in slow decline? Europe going to overtake it in opportunity and quality of life? It sounds to me like you are not a good fit for living in the USA and are creating rationale for moving back to your home country.

Take that up and coming 1:2 European salary and deduct...what...30% for income tax and then don't forget VAT to pay for all those generous government services that YOU really pay for. Not to mention quality of services, ie healthcare.

USA is not for everyone. I think the solution is to simply present your 20 year plan to your fiance. I suspect she will make the decision for you.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

scienist2 said:


> Maybe there is another way. Perhaps we could raise a family in the US and travel to EU each year and then in mid 50s relocate to take care of my family? Or am I just fabulating?


So, you'd expect your wife at 55 years old to *leave her adult children*, present and/or future grandchildren, her family and her whole entire way of life to start all over in Europe?

That's so unfair to her. She met you while you were living in the US. You didn't come the US for her, so it's not like she 'owes' you to move to Europe. If you marry and stay in the US, she's always going to have to deal with knowing you've got one foot in and one foot out of the country and that gives her NO security whatsoever. 

If you want to go back, now's the time to do it - before you marry and have kids. Seriously. *Now's* the time.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigToe said:


> think the solution is to simply present your 20 year plan to your fiance. I suspect she will make the decision for you.


Yes, don't do this before you have a frank discussion with your girlfriend... 

re: losing your identity - I can tell you that after living in a foreign country for 30 years, I have lost it, to the point I'm considering moving back to my own country...


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If I said to my mother "I am going to sacrifice my successful professional life and my relationship for you, Mom," you know what my Mom would do? She'd kick me up the arse so hard I'd still be feeling it a week later! :rofl:


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The idea of overtaxed Europe is a bit dated. you do pay more, but in most of "good" Europe you get a lot more for the additional taxes.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> If I said to my mother "I am going to sacrifice my successful professional life and my relationship for you, Mom," you know what my Mom would do? She'd kick me up the arse so hard I'd still be feeling it a week later! :rofl:


It sounds like the US way. Go and I will see you and your family once per year for Thanksgiving.

But on a more serious note, I suspect most people do not understand how it is to live so far away from family - across six time zones. I mean, if I am in Europe, wake up at seven but it is just 1 am on the East Coast. Not a great time to put in a morning call. Buy the time I get out from work, it is close to midnight on the East Coast. 

You know those evening calls with your dad? Yeah, forget you will be in the same mode.

Daily interactions are nearly impossible to maintain. It is sort of an on/off relationship.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, don't do this before you have a frank discussion with your girlfriend...
> 
> re: losing your identity - I can tell you that after living in a foreign country for 30 years, I have lost it, to the point I'm considering moving back to my own country...


What's waiting for you in your country now after 30 years? What are you leaving behind in the new country? I am curious as to whether it possible to maintain both worlds connected somehow.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I remember your story from a few years ago. You learned back then that living apart is a relationship killer.


Yeah, I did learn. Never doing that again, unless it is for a very limited duration. Thanks, EleGirl.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

StarFires said:


> While I admire you wanting to take care of your parents in their golden years, I have to say it sounds like your intended is really just an option to you. It doesn't sound like a devoted relationship if you're thinking about leaving her in order to take care of your parents. Your true feelings for her are what you really need to be examining. You owe that to yourself, but you also owe that to her. I don't think I would want to marry a guy who thinks of me as just an option like this. I deserve to know his true feelings.


I do not have a good plan. As was mentioned above, the two places cannot be combined. One person needs to compromise. I have all these puzzle peces and need to see if both sides can mostly get what they want.

And when it comes to decision making, I am trying to decouple any sort of emotions. Like a side by side analysis. Perhaps it's cold... But making a family cannot be undone. Better to make sure the two parties do not have dichotomous views.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

scienist2 said:


> It sounds like the US way. Go and I will see you and your family once per year for Thanksgiving.
> 
> But on a more serious note, I suspect most people do not understand how it is to live so far away from family - across six time zones. I mean, if I am in Europe, wake up at seven but it is just 1 am on the East Coast. Not a great time to put in a morning call. Buy the time I get out from work, it is close to midnight on the East Coast.
> 
> ...


I think your math or else your spelling is slightly askew.
Unless you’re working over twenty hours a day.


----------



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's so unfair to her. She met you while you were living in the US. You didn't come the US for her, so it's not like she 'owes' you to move to Europe. If you marry and stay in the US, she's always going to have to deal with knowing you've got one foot in and one foot out of the country and that gives her NO security whatsoever.


I fully acknowledge that she is not at fault. She has never given me any reason to blame her for anything. She is a fully devoted person whom I very much feel for.

We did meet in the US and at that point I did not feel that strongly about Europe.

But we evolve as human beings.

In the past two years we had three deaths - and I could not attend the funeral. I do visit each 8 months and need to schedule my vacation with the rest of the team. Tickets need to be bought well in advance to keep the notion of budget alive. And one way takes full 24 hours with little sleep. The US is much easier to travel in.

Both my remaining grandparents had issues as well (a stroke and a car accident) - and I was not there to help.

I have realized that my offspring will likely not fully learn my mother tongue. I have been asking mixed couples around both in the US and Europe.

Damn if I do, damn if I do not.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Both my kids did lengthy study abroad studies in Europe. Communication was never an issue. Not as much voice or video but messaging. 

If you're in the "1 hour a day phonecall" mindset it's not going to work. It's not supposed to. 

At some point we parents expect it to happen. I don't want to burden my kids with my care. I'm quite confident they will both move to Europe for work and if so I'll probably move too, but not to be near them. There are practical aspects of moving back to Europe due to lower cost of living in some places, health care, and so on.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Neither of my kids learned my language. One is bilingual French (medicine/research) the other learning Italian (design).... Far more useful in their line of work .


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One risk of staying in the US is that you'll always be thinking fondly of your Europe and idealizing it. That can lead to you wanting to return there when times get tough. There will be bumpy times in your future with your job, wife, kids, etc. It's easy in though times to escape to fantasy thoughts of moving to Europe where all your problems go away. Your story reminds me of how someone might keep the flame alive for their school crush. Then when they have problems in their marriage or whatever, they dream of a fantasy where they get with their crush and live happily every after rather than deal with the problems in their marriage. I worry that Europe will be that crush for you and you'll always want to return there. That's okay if it's just you, but it's unfair to your wife, her family, and any kids you may have.

One possibility is to plan for the family to spend 1 month per year in Europe. I know of a family that does this. They live in the US but go back home over the summer. But in their case, both of the couple are from Europe. If you explain to your wife how important it is, she may agree to that kind of arrangement.


----------

