# Wife meeting past boyfriend behind my back



## Mek

Hello,

I am really confused and shocked right now, can't think straight, and hope some of you can help. I Just found out about this so please forgive me if I am all over the place. I live in Canada and got married to a girl from India in May 2015. It was an arranged marriage. We got to know each other, felt compatible and went ahead with the marriage. I sponsored her and she came to Canada within 8 months. Initially she told me she never had a boyfriend. When she came to Canada she said she did have a guy friend (not boyfriend) before marriage. Lets call him Mike. I don't remember the exact details, but she wanted to talk to him again to make sure he is doing well emotionally. She felt that she basically ditched him and he is probably depressed right now. Doesn't know where he is or how he is doing. She felt bad for just leaving him hanging. He has tried to contact her several times before marriage and she always ignored him. She was hesitant to tell me because she didn't know how I would react. But I was supportive, told her it's ok and you can find out about him to make sure he is doing ok. So she found him on Facebook and started talking to him. 

So the talking went on for a few weeks. I found out about their relationship in more detail. They were much more closer than just friends. He was doing just fine. He was living in Malaysia and also found a new girl. I want to make this short although a lot went down during this period. He clearly loves her. She says she missed him too. It was getting to the point where I wasn't comfortable with them talking anymore. I installed a spy app on her phone but it wasn't working well. Anyway I told her to stop talking to him, since now she knows that he is OK. She was very reluctant, saying that I should trust her, but agreed. So she stopped talking to him. That mother****er says he would stop contacting her since he doesn't want to interfere with our life. I uninstalled the spy app because I trusted her.

Now she had to go to India to get her transcripts so that she can get them evaluated. She been there about a week now. Before she left Canada, I asked her if she ever talked to Mike, and she replied "you should trust me" and stopped talking to me for a while. Seemed a little suspicious, so 1 day before she left Canada, I installed a spy app on her phone. It doesn't record calls, but it records whats app convos. I didn't know she was talking to this guy until a few minutes ago because he was masked under a different username inside Whats app. She has actually been talking to this guy before she left Canada (from the way she was talking to him)  I used to check her phone from time to time while she was here (and she did not mind), but she probably deletes her convo's with him. From her convo, I learned that this guy is also back in India from Malaysia (they probably planned it  ). They both want to meet each other and have been saying that since the day she arrived. They were suppose to meet yesterday but didn't get the chance. I think they are going to meet today. In their convo, she even says she loves him :'( Misses him. Wants to see him. Only came to India to see him. I don't know what they are going to do. I call her everyday when she wakes up. What do I say to her now?

I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say. 

Let me know if this is the right decision.


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## browser

Mek said:


> I don't think she would cheat on me.


You probably never imagined she'd lie right to your face about an ex boyfriend either.


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## Married but Happy

She's already cheated on you. Wake up and smell the curry. Yours is an arranged marriage. "Mike" is a love match.


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## Mek

What hurts the most is she said she loves him. 

I will have to call her in a bit. I don't know what to say

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## browser

Oh that's easy.

Don't call her. 

Ever again.

It will be easier after the divorce is final.


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## Mek

Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything. Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right. 

This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back. 

Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me. 

This seems like a dream wow. 


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## *Deidre*

Mek said:


> Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything. Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right.
> 
> This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back.
> 
> Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me.
> 
> This seems like a dream wow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


She knows her future is with you, what does that mean? It doesn't sound like she genuinely wants to be with you, if she loves another man. I'm sorry for your pain


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## frusdil

I hate to say it OP but it seems like your wife is in love with this other man. If your marriage was arranged...it doesn't bode well for your future. 

She doesn't love you.


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## Nucking Futs

Mek said:


> Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything. Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right.
> 
> This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back.
> 
> Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me.
> 
> This seems like a dream wow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


If you're so unconcerned about her meeting him, why are you here? 

Nevermind, I'll tell you why you're here. You're here because your gut is screaming at you that she's cheating while your traitorous heart is trying to convince you that she would never do that. Look at what I quoted up there! You're an arranged marriage and he's a love match and you think she's not going to **** him? He traveled from Malaysia for what, a handshake?

No, your reason is in a battle with your emotions right now and it looks like your emotions are winning. 

You don't know what to say on the phone call? Tell her to stay in India or move to Malaysia because you've got no use for a cheater, then hang up. Don't tell her how you know, don't respond to her calling you back or texting, just go dark and monitor her messages to him. That will give you a better idea what you have to work with.


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## Tatsuhiko

Call her family and inform them about the "I love you" texts and her real reason for visiting India. Tell them about her intent to meet her boyfrield. Tell them that you expected better from their daughter. You haven't informed your parents yet because of the shame. They might get the message and have someone rein her in, or at least cause her enough shame to stop her. 

I don't know if the two of you have a future together, but because she chose to marry you, you deserve respect and honesty. At the very least, you should throw a monkey wrench into their plans and teach her a lesson about shame and respect. A woman who does not love you should not be trying to have children with you.


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## MattMatt

@Mek Involve your religious leaders and the people who arranged the marriage.

What religion are you both? This is relevant as it might influence any subsequent advice I might be able to offer you.


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## ConanHub

I detect a fatal lack of testosterone.


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## Mek

I am a Sikh. I am strongly leaning towards the advice that I tell her parents. But if I do that, I will never know what they planned on doing together. If they plan on having sex, I want to let them go ahead and do it so I can ditch the *****. If I halt their plans I may never find out how loyal she actually is to me. What scares me is what if they do it and I never find out...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

Mek said:


> I am a Sikh. I am strongly leaning towards the advice that I tell her parents. But if I do that, I will never know what they planned on doing together. If they plan on having sex, I want to let them go ahead and do it so I can ditch the *****. If I halt their plans I may never find out how loyal she actually is to me. What scares me is what if they do it and I never find out...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


 @Mek

I think you need to visit your Gudwara and ask for spiritual advice and help.


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## Spicy

Honey, what a disappointment and massive betrayal. You must feel so used right now. I'm so sorry.

I can understand that you don't want to give up on the marriage because this is so new, and you are not sure of the extent of the betrayal. 

You already know she is a liar and a sneaky person. So you can't base her morality on a story she told you about skipping a ride from some dude. You have much more concrete proof as to what she really is. You were her winning ticket into America/Canada, where so many from other countries believe the streets are paved with gold, and money drips off all the trees, and the air is made of euphoric happiness. When it turns out their preconceived ideas are not the case, and that life in the states is very difficult too, then they want to ditch the meal ticket and at least get love, since they have given up their home country and family for the 
Western Dream. I hope for your sake I am way off base. Every situation is different, and includes different people.

You made one statement that stuck me badly:


> Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it.


This sounds like she is there to service you. IF she feels that is the case at all, then why would she want to stay with you? What about what she wants and her needs? I wish I was getting a better vibe on this one, but I am not. Like I said, I hope I am wrong. I'M afraid you have problems with hair on them my friend.


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## hifromme67

Married but Happy said:


> She's already cheated on you. Wake up and smell the curry. Yours is an arranged marriage. "Mike" is a love match.




No need to be racist. "Curry" is uncalled for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hifromme67

It is an arranged marriage and most likely did not love you during the marriage. I don't believe she had to go to India for transcripts. That was simply an excuse. Just leave her be and get out of the marriage asap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

Married but Happy said:


> She's already cheated on you. Wake up and smell the curry. Yours is an arranged marriage. "Mike" is a love match.


Actually Indians do not eat curry.


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## jld

Mek, she does not love you. She loves Mike, and Mike loves her. 

If you truly love her, let her go.

You deserve someone who truly loves you. This one is not it. 

But by letting this one go, you make space for the one who will truly love you to come in. Don't cheat yourself of that.


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## Spicy

Does your wife share your faith?
Was she a virgin when you married, or had she been with this other boyfriend already?

From my understanding sex before marriage is forbidden in your faith, (I suppose it is in most though), but perhaps if she had already had premarital sex with him, and it is something she should have been very guilty about etc, it could also give you some more insight into who she really is. Just thinking out loud here....


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## aine

Mek said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am really confused and shocked right now, can't think straight, and hope some of you can help. I Just found out about this so please forgive me if I am all over the place. I live in Canada and got married to a girl from India in May 2015. It was an arranged marriage. We got to know each other, felt compatible and went ahead with the marriage. I sponsored her and she came to Canada within 8 months. Initially she told me she never had a boyfriend. When she came to Canada she said she did have a guy friend (not boyfriend) before marriage. Lets call him Mike. I don't remember the exact details, but she wanted to talk to him again to make sure he is doing well emotionally. She felt that she basically ditched him and he is probably depressed right now. Doesn't know where he is or how he is doing. She felt bad for just leaving him hanging. He has tried to contact her several times before marriage and she always ignored him. She was hesitant to tell me because she didn't know how I would react. But I was supportive, told her it's ok and you can find out about him to make sure he is doing ok. So she found him on Facebook and started talking to him.
> 
> So the talking went on for a few weeks. I found out about their relationship in more detail. They were much more closer than just friends. He was doing just fine. He was living in Malaysia and also found a new girl. I want to make this short although a lot went down during this period. He clearly loves her. She says she missed him too. It was getting to the point where I wasn't comfortable with them talking anymore. I installed a spy app on her phone but it wasn't working well. Anyway I told her to stop talking to him, since now she knows that he is OK. She was very reluctant, saying that I should trust her, but agreed. So she stopped talking to him. That mother****er says he would stop contacting her since he doesn't want to interfere with our life. I uninstalled the spy app because I trusted her.
> 
> Now she had to go to India to get her transcripts so that she can get them evaluated. She been there about a week now. Before she left Canada, I asked her if she ever talked to Mike, and she replied "you should trust me" and stopped talking to me for a while. Seemed a little suspicious, so 1 day before she left Canada, I installed a spy app on her phone. It doesn't record calls, but it records whats app convos. I didn't know she was talking to this guy until a few minutes ago because he was masked under a different username inside Whats app. She has actually been talking to this guy before she left Canada (from the way she was talking to him)  I used to check her phone from time to time while she was here (and she did not mind), but she probably deletes her convo's with him. From her convo, I learned that this guy is also back in India from Malaysia (they probably planned it  ). They both want to meet each other and have been saying that since the day she arrived. They were suppose to meet yesterday but didn't get the chance. I think they are going to meet today. In their convo, she even says she loves him :'( Misses him. Wants to see him. Only came to India to see him. I don't know what they are going to do. I call her everyday when she wakes up. What do I say to her now?
> 
> I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say.
> 
> Let me know if this is the right decision.


It's not good when she lies to your face like that, not a good start to a new marriage.
You can follow what is happening in India, in the meantime (I know your heart may not want it) you ask a lawyer to draw up divorce papers ( you do not have to file them), then have them waiting for her when she gets back. 
I am sure when you do that and tell her you are going to tell her parents and your parents ( I assume you are both Indian so that will be a huge issue) it will shock her into the reality of what she is doing and how she is about to lose the marriage and the shame accompanying it. She may be remorseful and try on the marriage if not you have to consider whether you want to spend your life looking over her shoulder, because with this type of woman if it is not the ex boyfriend it will eventually be another man. Think about it.
BTW how old are you both?


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## MattMatt

Spicy said:


> Does your wife share your faith?
> Was she a virgin when you married, or had she been with this other boyfriend already?
> 
> From my understanding sex before marriage is forbidden in your faith, (I suppose it is in most though), but perhaps if she had already had premarital sex with him, and it is something she should have been very guilty about etc, it could also give you some more insight into who she really is. Just thinking out loud here....


It was an arranged marriage so they would have been of the same faith. Both would have been Sikhs.


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## frusdil

Tatsuhiko said:


> Call her family and inform them about the "I love you" texts and her real reason for visiting India. Tell them about her intent to meet her boyfrield. Tell them that you expected better from their daughter. You haven't informed your parents yet because of the shame. They might get the message and have someone rein her in, or at least cause her enough shame to stop her.


I would NOT advise this!! Depending on their religion, this could prove very dangerous for her. I'm sorry, but she doesn't deserve to die for this.


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## jsmart

Do you really want to save this? The chats reveal that she love him and he went back to India to be with her. They are going to be all over each other every minute possible. Then try to come back like nothing happened. except she will very distant. Her heart will with this guy.

Are you going to be able to get past what she's currently doing with this guy? If you think the sex is good, and you're her arranged husband, can you imagine what she's doing for her "soul mate." I would expose to both parents and file for divorce. You don't want to try to reconcile with a WW who will pine away for years for the one that got away.


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am really confused and shocked right now, can't think straight, and hope some of you can help. I Just found out about this so please forgive me if I am all over the place. I live in Canada and got married to a girl from India in May 2015. It was an arranged marriage. We got to know each other, felt compatible and went ahead with the marriage. I sponsored her and she came to Canada within 8 months. Initially she told me she never had a boyfriend. When she came to Canada she said she did have a guy friend (not boyfriend) before marriage. Lets call him Mike. I don't remember the exact details, but she wanted to talk to him again to make sure he is doing well emotionally. She felt that she basically ditched him and he is probably depressed right now. Doesn't know where he is or how he is doing. She felt bad for just leaving him hanging. He has tried to contact her several times before marriage and she always ignored him. She was hesitant to tell me because she didn't know how I would react. But I was supportive, told her it's ok and you can find out about him to make sure he is doing ok. So she found him on Facebook and started talking to him.
> 
> So the talking went on for a few weeks. I found out about their relationship in more detail. They were much more closer than just friends. He was doing just fine. He was living in Malaysia and also found a new girl. I want to make this short although a lot went down during this period. He clearly loves her. She says she missed him too. It was getting to the point where I wasn't comfortable with them talking anymore. I installed a spy app on her phone but it wasn't working well. Anyway I told her to stop talking to him, since now she knows that he is OK. She was very reluctant, saying that I should trust her, but agreed. So she stopped talking to him. That mother****er says he would stop contacting her since he doesn't want to interfere with our life. I uninstalled the spy app because I trusted her.
> 
> Now she had to go to India to get her transcripts so that she can get them evaluated. She been there about a week now. Before she left Canada, I asked her if she ever talked to Mike, and she replied "you should trust me" and stopped talking to me for a while. Seemed a little suspicious, so 1 day before she left Canada, I installed a spy app on her phone. It doesn't record calls, but it records whats app convos. I didn't know she was talking to this guy until a few minutes ago because he was masked under a different username inside Whats app. She has actually been talking to this guy before she left Canada (from the way she was talking to him)  I used to check her phone from time to time while she was here (and she did not mind), but she probably deletes her convo's with him. From her convo, I learned that this guy is also back in India from Malaysia (they probably planned it  ). They both want to meet each other and have been saying that since the day she arrived. They were suppose to meet yesterday but didn't get the chance. I think they are going to meet today. In their convo, she even says she loves him :'( Misses him. Wants to see him. Only came to India to see him. I don't know what they are going to do. I call her everyday when she wakes up. What do I say to her now?
> 
> I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say.
> 
> Let me know if this is the right decision.


Hi Mek 
Hope you're doing well. I know you're going through a very hard time and I understand exactly what you're going through because I too had an arranged marriage which ended in divorce for many reasons. To be honest, you know what you have to do but you're trying your best to avoid it because the hardest decisions we make is the best decision we make. 

I don't know how long you two have been married or under what circumstances she got married. I only say that because if she got married willingly then she would have been open and honest about her "friend" Mike. My current husband knows about my ex and about my relationship with him and I know about my husband's relationship with his ex. You can't have a long and lasting marriage that's built on lies and suspicion. You shouldn't have to spy on your wife early on into your marriage.
That's not fair to you and if she finds out then you'll just look like the bad guy. I know you love her but sometimes our first love isn't true love. It's simple you can either confront her about it and ask her to come clean and go from there or go your own separate ways.

If you don't mind me asking how old is your wife? I only ask this is because if she's young then maybe she "thinks" she loves this Mike guy and maybe he's not a good guy but she's not being able to see that but if she's at an age where she can think practically and not emotionally then she knows exactly what she's doing. Her talking to this guy behind your back is a form of cheating. Also just because your sex life is great doesn't mean everything is okay. She might just be having sex with you just so you don't suspect anything and to give you the false sense of security that everything is okay. 

You're already miserable so you can either be miserable the rest of your life and constantly worry who your wife is talking to which will ultimately create problems later on. Ask yourself this do you want to be in a relationship where there is no trust or respect? A relationship cannot last only on love, then it's just a hollow relationship. It's better to bite the bullet now and suffer a little bit of pain than to be miserable forever. 
My advice to you would be to act normal with her and try to find out when she's coming back without seeming like your prying. Play your cards right and get her to come back on her own and then talk to her and make your decision after that. Just remember one thing whatever decision you make, do it when you're not emotional and think about the affect it'll have on your future 5 years from now. Are you willing to forgive and forget and live with someone who's lied to you or would you rather find someone who'll give you the love and respect you deserve. 
I wish you all the best. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

@Mek is the boyfriend a Sikh, also?


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## arbitrator

Mek said:


> I am a Sikh. I am strongly leaning towards the advice that I tell her parents. But if I do that, I will never know what they planned on doing together. If they plan on having sex, I want to let them go ahead and do it so I can ditch the *****. If I halt their plans I may never find out how loyal she actually is to me. *What scares me is what if they do it and I never find out...*
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


*I think that that's preemptively referred to as "cheating!" In fact, I'd say that she's probably already beaten you to the punch!

Is that what you really want?

I say to "out her" to her family and to just lose her a$$ like a bad habit ~ you deserve far, far better out of life!*


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything. Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right.
> 
> This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back.
> 
> Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me.
> 
> This seems like a dream wow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I know you want to desperately make your marriage work. We all do. No one gets married to get divorced but somethings are inevitable. Maybe it's a good thing she's not with you at the moment. 

Maybe you need some time alone to think about the situation and think rationally not emotionally. Right now you're hurting and therefore aren't being able to think clearly which is perfectly understandable. 

Don't give yourself false consolation that she knows her future is with you. Of course she knows that especially since your marriage was an arranged marriage and being Indian and all she's not going to risk the defamation of being a divorcee. She should be with you because she wants to and because she wants to share her future with you. 

my parents supported me all the way when I decided to get a divorce and most of people who knew me were very supportive because they knew what kind of man my ex was. In a way I was lucky that I didn't have to worry about the consequences of my decision.

Also, she's not open about everything with you. Her telling you about her day or minor details about her life before marriage doesn't count. What counts is her telling you about things that really matter or will have a more profound affect on your marriage. 
Just give it some thought.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I am a Sikh. I am strongly leaning towards the advice that I tell her parents. But if I do that, I will never know what they planned on doing together. If they plan on having sex, I want to let them go ahead and do it so I can ditch the *****. If I halt their plans I may never find out how loyal she actually is to me. What scares me is what if they do it and I never find out...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I would say that if you do decide to tell her parents and yours as well. You need to talk to her and let her know of your decision first. She will ask you for another chance and get you to change your mind and all that but you need to stay firm in your decision. If you tell her parents before saying anything to her then you're just going to look bad and that you don't have the maturity to handle your problems by yourself. I'm only saying this because I've experienced it myself. Be the man you are and just talk to her about the whole thing. Tell her everything and come clean. You'll feel so much better. Believe me. 

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## Blondilocks

"She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything."

No, she isn't and no she doesn't.

She deceived you about her relationship with Mike so you would let her track him down.

She made up the most stupid story about *having to travel to India for transcripts* (wth?).

Your entire marriage has been based on lies. Is this woman worthy of being the mother of your children?

Cancel her return flight.


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## ConanHub

frusdil said:


> I would NOT advise this!! Depending on their religion, this could prove very dangerous for her. I'm sorry, but she doesn't deserve to die for this.


Sikh folks are very civil. No worries on this unless I am woefully misinformed.


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## browser

Mek said:


> Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything. Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right.
> 
> This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back.
> 
> Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me.


Dude she loves another guy. He may be from her past but she loves him NOW.

Whether he lives next door or halfway across the world is irrelevant. 

There's nothing left to save here.


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## PhillyGuy13

Forgive me, but how does the arranged marriage work? Was money exchanged between families? What are the repercussions for divorce? What if the divorce is result of infidelity (which has occurred and is occuring - let's not fool ourselves)

Flying half way round the world to pick up transcripts? I know they have the World Wide Web in India. A bit more convenient than a flight across the world


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## Thor

A man and a woman each travelled halfway around the globe to be together. They have traded "I Love You" numerous times.

Is there any question what is going on here?

Just let her go. She is in love with another man, and he is in love with her. You cannot "Nice" her into loving you. You cannot be understanding enough of her to cause her not to love the other man. You cannot save your marriage alone. She has to deeply commit to doing hard work to save this marriage. So far she is deeply committed to traveling around the world to meet up with another man. Another man she had sex with in the past (believe it).


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## arbitrator

areenhaque26 said:


> I would say that if you do decide to tell her parents and yours as well. *You need to talk to her and let her know of your decision first. She will ask you for another chance and get you to change your mind and all that but you need to stay firm in your decision. If you tell her parents before saying anything to her then you're just going to look bad and that you don't have the maturity to handle your problems by yourself.* I'm only saying this because I've experienced it myself. Be the man you are and just talk to her about the whole thing. Tell her everything and come clean. You'll feel so much better. Believe me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


*But if he tells her of his plans to out her to her family first, then wouldn't that give her the necessary time to blameshift and to try to start covering up the truth of all of her sordidness before he ever makes that fateful call?*


----------



## Thor

MattMatt said:


> Actually Indians do not eat curry.


?

A quick search of "Indian Curry" returns over 45 million pages, many of which are recipes and cultural histories of Indian curry. My Indian friends took me to an Indian restaurant in Kathmandu where we ate curry. Every Indian restaurant in the USA seems to base their dishes on curry. Confused.


----------



## Cynthia

Mek said:


> I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say.


What you know that she is doing is lying about communicating and now meeting a man you have told her not to communicate with again. That right there is cheating. So your wife is currently cheating on you and lying to you about it. It is perfectly understandable that you are so upset.




Mek said:


> Look guys I am not letting this marriage go just like that. I have to try and make this work. I don't believe this is the end of our marriage. *She is very open about everything in our life. She tells me everything.* Didn't even let another guy from her class give her a ride home in cold weather since she didn't feel it was right.


The bolded is obviously false. You believed that, but you now know that is false, because she is lying to you right now - today and you have proof of it.



Mek said:


> This was her past love, misses him a lot so I understand the attachment. She knows I will get upset if she told me which is why she is meeting him behind my back.


You are justifying her bad behavior.



Mek said:


> Of course it doesn't justify what she is doing. But it's not something where I am willing to just throw in the towel. She loves him but knows she can't be with him. He lives in Malaysia. She knows her future is with me.


How do you know this? This is what you want to believe, but you can't really know this for sure. In fact, you just saw that she told another man that she loves him. This does not bode well.

Please update us on what you decided to do. How are you?


----------



## Evinrude58

The infamous "handshake across the world". 
If you need a picture to make you believe she had sex with him, just do this:

Visualize them saying I love you's and traveling across the ocean, getting time together alone in a room, and shaking hands and hugging, then talking a little, before he walks out the door.

Now visualize them running into each other's arms and ripping one another's clothes off and. Having sex for several days.

Which one is more believable?

Well I know which one is going to be running in an infinite loop in your memory until you move on.

How long you can tolerate a marriage with a woman that doesn't love you is up to you.

I will say that most here have felt your pain and know how badly you want to make your marriage last. That your emotions are just crushing you. 
As good as it felt to be in love with her, it's just the opposite and it's unbearable, right?
Well your emotions will destroy you if you let them. You can find another woman when you're healthy. This one is one of about 3 billion or so. There's one for you that will love you enough to cross an ocean. Really.
I'm so sorry for your pain.
But in truth, you haven't lost anything. You never had her love. It was an arranged marriage, after all. This is why some people don't like the idea...... getting married to a woman that isn't in love with you, or vice versa.

Good luck


----------



## MattMatt

Thor said:


> ?
> 
> A quick search of "Indian Curry" returns over 45 million pages, many of which are recipes and cultural histories of Indian curry. My Indian friends took me to an Indian restaurant in Kathmandu where we ate curry. Every Indian restaurant in the USA seems to base their dishes on curry. Confused.


Same in the UK.

The curry was a dish designed for the tastes of the British Raj.

My wife's family is from India and her family's tasty traditional recipes are never served in Indian restaurants!


----------



## MattMatt

ConanHub;172s67377 said:


> Sikh folks are very civil. No worries on this unless I am woefully misinformed.


Although thankfully rare, so-called honour killings are not entirely unknown in the Sikh community.


----------



## Cynthia

Most of us don't understand arranged marriages. To make comments that due to the marriage being arranged there is no love is clearly untrue. The OP states that he loves his wife. Love grows. Two people can make a choice to love each other and build a marriage. Mek believed that is what happened in his own marriage and his wife certainly led him to believe that. Many people consider arranged marriages to be a superior way to find a good match. Personally I don't agree, but I do think that plenty of people do find a good match through arranged marriages.


----------



## Mek

Hello all, thank you everyone for being so supportive and reassuring in your comments, I'll take everything because this is god damn unbearable. I think I'm starting to realize the inevitable, but I don't know how I'm gonna do it. I'm so attached to her. Is there really no other way???

Current events:

- I did not tell her I'm spying on her
- I told my mom, brother, aunt/uncle everything. They are very supportive and understanding. They are leaning towards divorce as well.

- She went to meet this guy. As she was going I called her. Tried to make her feel guilty without telling her I know, but she did not feel it one bit. I think she has been doing it for so long it's easy for her to lie now.

- After her meeting with mike, which lasted for about an hour, she messaged Mike on whats app saying "Thanks for the hug". To which he replied "WC" (welcome) "you are my love". I really believe that's all they did.....at least for now.

- Sometimes gas builds up in my stomach and I told her it's happening at that time. I hung up pretending I'm in pain, to see if she cared or whatever. She cared a lot. Called me 28 times but I didn't pick up. (This was during the time she was meeting him). When I woke up and called her she was pissed and crying saying she was so worried. I should've at least left a message. 

- During our call she said I love you, which kinda hurt because of what she's doing behid my back.


I will try to address everyone's questions. Lets get some facts out of the way:

- I am 29 and she's 28
- She says she was a virgin before marriage. 
- All 3 of us are Indian and Sikh (Mike, wife and I) I'm a little more religious than her. I like to meditate and she hates it when I do. 

- We bought her a one-way ticket to India since we didn't know how long she required to finish her business there.

- Her family wont kill her if we divorce. They respect her a lot. She's from a very poor family. A lot of issues within their villiage. Their fellow villiagers didn't think this family would get very far, didn't help them in any way in times of need. She felt our marriage opened the door to a prosperous future for her family. If we divorce, it will shame the whole family. 

- a few years before our marriage, Mike came to her father to ask his daughters hand in marriage, but was rejected. My wife respected her fathers wishes and didn't question it. Mike tried contacting her several times after that, but she said she ignored his calls. This is why she felt bad for him and wanted to speak to him again when she came to Canada. I did not know about this Mike guy at all before the marriage.

- When I said sex life was good, we both enjoyed it. She didn't feel like she was there to service me, not at all. We have been trying to get a child for a few months now without success. Thank God for that. She wanted a child a lot more than I. Another reason I felt she was in it for the long term.

- She did go for transcripts. We decided that mutually. Although she was the one making phone calls to India finding out if it is required for her to be there. She said they wont give the transcripts unless she's there in person, that's how it works in India.

So what now?

I want to save this, but everyone is saying divorce. My family thinks she's very manipulative. I truly believe she loves me (along with Mike). She is just confused right now. I want to carry this on for a few days and get some more evidence from what's app. I honestly think the end result will probably be divorce, but I just can't picture that at this moment. 

My mom says the next step is to call her and ask if she wants to be with Mike or me. I might do this in a few days. I obviously want her to know I wont accept being treated this way. But is DIVORCE the answer?


----------



## Cynthia

It sounds like she was always in love with Mike, but did not tell you any of this before you consented to marry her. She likely lied and manipulated you in order to have a better life for her family. That would cause me to wonder if anything she's said is true and if she really loved you at all. Your wife seems to have schemed her way into your heart.

You mention that she is also a Sikh, but she doesn't like you meditating. Does meditation play a significant role in your religion? If so, why would she not like you meditating if it is part of the religion she claims to share with you? Perhaps she is not so dedicated to being Sikh as she led you to believe. Isn't that one reason why you opted for an arranged marriage, so you could find a wife who shared your beliefs?

I'm sorry, but she does seem to be a lying, scheming woman who knows how to manipulate your heart and to appear to be a good wife. It doesn't matter that you agreed to this trip. You did not know what was truly in her heart. She is now showing you what is in her heart, even though she isn't aware that you know.

Please do not tell her how you got your information. Is there anyone who can "catch them" for you? As in seem to run into them and blow this deception up for you?

You say that you trusted her, but the very act of putting a spy app on her phone shows that you doubted her. And for good reason. She has now shown you that your suspicions were correct. Believe what you can see, not what she tells you.

I am very sorry that you are going through this terrible situation. Please do not allow it to drag out for a lengthy time, as that will hurt your heart further. Decided if you want to live with a woman who has clearly lied to you, deceived you, and manipulated you.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Mike was the one who got away, and if not for her father's rejection, the two of them would be married today.

I hate to say it - you were Plan A for her family but Plan B for her. She is getting Mike out of her system now with one last hurrah. 

Take your time. Sort out what you want to do. Certainly don't get her pregnant.

When she comes back home, see what she offers as far as their encounter. The fact that she hasn't told you she has met up with him already speaks volumes.


----------



## Blondilocks

Google 'how to get university transcripts from India' and you will find at least two sources where you do it all on line.

Sorry you are in this predicament but, dang, how did you get so pvssy-whipped in so short a time?


----------



## EunuchMonk

Evinrude58 said:


> The infamous "handshake across the world".
> If you need a picture to make you believe she had sex with him, just do this:
> 
> Visualize them saying I love you's and traveling across the ocean, getting time together alone in a room, and shaking hands and hugging, then talking a little, before he walks out the door.
> 
> Now visualize them running into each other's arms and ripping one another's clothes off and. Having sex for several days.
> 
> Which one is more believable?
> 
> Well I know which one is going to be running in an infinite loop in your memory until you move on.
> 
> How long you can tolerate a marriage with a woman that doesn't love you is up to you.
> 
> I will say that most here have felt your pain and know how badly you want to make your marriage last. That your emotions are just crushing you.
> As good as it felt to be in love with her, it's just the opposite and it's unbearable, right?
> Well your emotions will destroy you if you let them. You can find another woman when you're healthy. This one is one of about 3 billion or so. There's one for you that will love you enough to cross an ocean. Really.
> I'm so sorry for your pain.
> But in truth, you haven't lost anything. You never had her love. It was an arranged marriage, after all. This is why some people don't like the idea...... getting married to a woman that isn't in love with you, or vice versa.
> 
> Good luck


Wow, that visualisation exercise really helped me with something.


----------



## Diana7

I think its very possible that she hasnt actually cheated with him, but that her fathers rejection of him as her marriage partner left her hurt and still loving him to some extent. That's not to say that she doesn't love you, and she may well want to stay married to you. She certainly seems to care about you. If they were cheating then why did she say thanks for the hug? 

I think you need to ask her to come home asap and have a heart to heart. Once she knows that you know she went to meet him, she will need to be honest and you can both decide what happens next. If you remain together, then you would need to ask that she never contact the other man again. 

Don't jump into divorce is my advise, see what happens. Its far too soon to make such a big decision.I think it was a mistake to tell your family, if you remain together they will think badly of her now.


----------



## TX-SC

I believe your wife is a liar and is manipulating you. I would monitor her conversations for a day or two just to get a better idea of their affection. Then, I would call her parents and let them know what is going on behind your back and that you are going to divorce her. Then, call her and tell her what you know and that you are divorcing her. Tell her this... 

"I love you very much and always looked forward to starting a family with you and living a happy life. However, now that I know how deeply you love him and how easy it is for you to lie and deceive me, I feel it is time to divorce and move on. I wish you and he the best and I hope you have a great life together. I have already informed your family of this, and told them why we are divorcing. Good luck and goodbye."

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Tatsuhiko

You're in such a tough spot. I can understand why you're hesitating to inform her family. They'll shame her into dumping Mike. Then she'll profess her undying love for you, in tears, and run back into your arms. But you'll spend the rest of your life wondering if you were just plan B. You love her and want to be plan A. But how will you ever know, unless you see her dump Mike on her own? 

I think you should start to detach from her. Don't answer her calls anymore, but keep monitoring her chats and activity. My hunch is that after a while you'll develop a better idea of what to do. Keep records of her chats so that you don't get painted as the bad guy if things end up in divorce.


----------



## old red

Hug could be a code word for sex. 

Either way, your wife is a liar. I couldn't bare to be married to someone that I didn't trust. Due to her culture and upbringing, your wife hasn't been allowed to make important decisions for herself - such as marrying Mike. In order to carve out some independence for herself, she may have become very skillful in deceiving others and presenting a false facade - and, honestly, who could blame her. Nevertheless, what she is doing to you now is wrong and cruel. Whether she has sex or merely wishes that she would have sex, what difference does it make? Look at the effort that she has made for another man, and look at the effort that she has put into deceiving you. She may be taking advantage of your loving nature in order to live a life of freedom - something that she hasn't had before. You should have put a stop to this the very moment that you found out about the communication. Do you still believe that she was a 28 year old virgin? That's the trouble with lack of trust in a marriage - you can't be sure about the one that you have chosen to exclusively share your life with. I couldn't live with a partner like that - affair sex or no affair sex. I wish you the very best.


----------



## Mek

I think I need to add a few things so you guys get a better picture of her. You only heard of her evil deeds which is why everyone thinks divorce is the only answer. A few things that suggest she has some feelings for me: (only ones I can remember right now):

- I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow.

- Before she left Canada, she left hidden post-it notes around the bedroom saying very cute/romatic things about me/us.

- She hates it when I go to my second job. She feels I shouldn't be working this hard, when my parents usually think I'm not working enough! It bothers her so much.

- She feels jealous if I add a female friend on facebook. Asks me angrily who she is lol.

- She gets excited whenever I return home from work (sometimes)

- Whenever I get sick, even if it's something minor, she becomes overly concerned

- She ALWAYS answers my phone calls, no matter how busy she is <3 unless she's angry at me and wants me to know she's angry

- I'm sure there are many other things to indicate her genuine love for me.


I'm not sure if lying to me about Mike completely invalidates the above points. 





Diana7 said:


> Don't jump into divorce is my advise, see what happens. Its far too soon to make such a big decision.I think it was a mistake to tell your family, if you remain together they will think badly of her now.


I agree. Initially I only wanted to tell my brother. But he suggested that our aunt/uncle have much more experience and they have helped him in the past and wont tell anyone. SO I agreed. While we were speaking with them over the phone, my mom walked in and realized something was up. We tried to play it cool but it didn't work. We had to tell her as well :crying:




Tatsuhiko said:


> You're in such a tough spot. I can understand why you're hesitating to inform her family. They'll shame her into dumping Mike. Then she'll profess her undying love for you, in tears, and run back into your arms. But you'll spend the rest of your life wondering if you were just plan B. You love her and want to be plan A. But how will you ever know, unless you see her dump Mike on her own?
> 
> I think you should start to detach from her. Don't answer her calls anymore, but keep monitoring her chats and activity. My hunch is that after a while you'll develop a better idea of what to do. Keep records of her chats so that you don't get painted as the bad guy if things end up in divorce.


I agree almost 100%. If I accept her back into my life I don't know how our relationship will be. I might always be thinking maybe she wants to be with Mike. I'm still debating and haven't come to a conclusion on what to do just yet. I agree with your idea of keep monitoring and I'll develop a better idea of what to do. But I have to keep calling her otherwise she'll worry and become suspicious.

I have already started working on detaching myself from her. The idea of divorce sounds a little easier than it did yesterday.



old red said:


> Hug could be a code word for sex.
> 
> Either way, your wife is a liar. I couldn't bare to be married to someone that I didn't trust. Due to her culture and upbringing, your wife hasn't been allowed to make important decisions for herself - such as marrying Mike. In order to carve out some independence for herself, she may have become very skillful in deceiving others and presenting a false facade - and, honestly, who could blame her. Nevertheless, what she is doing to you now is wrong and cruel. Whether she has sex or merely wishes that she would have sex, what difference does it make? Look at the effort that she has made for another man, and look at the effort that she has put into deceiving you. She may be taking advantage of your loving nature in order to live a life of freedom - something that she hasn't had before. You should have put a stop to this the very moment that you found out about the communication. Do you still believe that she was a 28 year old virgin? That's the trouble with lack of trust in a marriage - you can't be sure about the one that you have chosen to exclusively share your life with. I couldn't live with a partner like that - affair sex or no affair sex. I wish you the very best.


I don't know if she even wishes to have sex with him. Hug was not a code word for sex. She said it in Punjabi language, and for those who know punjabi she said "Thanks glwkri pawn lyi". It couldn't mean anything other than "thanks for giving me a hug".

I don't care if she was a virgin or not before marriage. I am still weighing this. I know she has put a lot of effort into deceiving me. This is the only thing telling me to let her go for good. 

Thank you all for your input into this crazy saga. FML!


----------



## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I think I need to add a few things so you guys get a better picture of her. You only heard of her evil deeds which is why everyone thinks divorce is the only answer. A few things that suggest she has some feelings for me: (only ones I can remember right now):
> 
> - I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow.
> 
> - Before she left Canada, she left hidden post-it notes around the bedroom saying very cute/romatic things about me/us.
> 
> - She hates it when I go to my second job. She feels I shouldn't be working this hard, when my parents usually think I'm not working enough! It bothers her so much.
> 
> - She feels jealous if I add a female friend on facebook. Asks me angrily who she is lol.
> 
> - She gets excited whenever I return home from work (sometimes)
> 
> - Whenever I get sick, even if it's something minor, she becomes overly concerned
> 
> - She ALWAYS answers my phone calls, no matter how busy she is <3 unless she's angry at me and wants me to know she's angry
> 
> - I'm sure there are many other things to indicate her genuine love for me.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if lying to me about Mike completely invalidates the above points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Initially I only wanted to tell my brother. But he suggested that our aunt/uncle have much more experience and they have helped him in the past and wont tell anyone. SO I agreed. While we were speaking with them over the phone, my mom walked in and realized something was up. We tried to play it cool but it didn't work. We had to tell her as well :crying:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree almost 100%. If I accept her back into my life I don't know how our relationship will be. I might always be thinking maybe she wants to be with Mike. I'm still debating and haven't come to a conclusion on what to do just yet. I agree with your idea of keep monitoring and I'll develop a better idea of what to do. But I have to keep calling her otherwise she'll worry and become suspicious.
> 
> I have already started working on detaching myself from her. The idea of divorce sounds a little easier than it did yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if she even wishes to have sex with him. Hug was not a code word for sex. She said it in Punjabi language, and for those who know punjabi she said "Thanks glwkri pawn lyi". It couldn't mean anything other than "thanks for giving me a hug".
> 
> I don't care if she was a virgin or not before marriage. I am still weighing this. I know she has put a lot of effort into deceiving me. This is the only thing telling me to let her go for good.
> 
> Thank you all for your input into this crazy saga. FML!


Look at the end of the day, do what you think is best for you and will make you happy in the long run. If you think you can stay with someone who's lied to you from the beginning and forget everything she's done so far and start fresh then go for it but if you think you can't then don't because the truth is that whatever you decide is not only going to affect you two but your families and later your children. You mentioned ask the nice things she did for you and said to you. Did she once mention that she's seeing Mike or saw him? That's love. When you truly love someone you don't disrespect their feelings or hide things from them. I'm telling you from my own experience. My ex would buy me things and take me places but I never knew who he was meeting with and who's calling him. It wasn't until later on that you found out that he used to go over to his best friend's wife's house late at night. So being nice and lovey-dovey doesn't compensate for not being honest. Let me ask you this? Did she offer for you to come with her? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I think I need to add a few things so you guys get a better picture of her. You only heard of her evil deeds which is why everyone thinks divorce is the only answer. A few things that suggest she has some feelings for me: (only ones I can remember right now):
> 
> - I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow.
> 
> - Before she left Canada, she left hidden post-it notes around the bedroom saying very cute/romatic things about me/us.
> 
> - She hates it when I go to my second job. She feels I shouldn't be working this hard, when my parents usually think I'm not working enough! It bothers her so much.
> 
> - She feels jealous if I add a female friend on facebook. Asks me angrily who she is lol.
> 
> - She gets excited whenever I return home from work (sometimes)
> 
> - Whenever I get sick, even if it's something minor, she becomes overly concerned
> 
> - She ALWAYS answers my phone calls, no matter how busy she is <3 unless she's angry at me and wants me to know she's angry
> 
> - I'm sure there are many other things to indicate her genuine love for me.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if lying to me about Mike completely invalidates the above points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Initially I only wanted to tell my brother. But he suggested that our aunt/uncle have much more experience and they have helped him in the past and wont tell anyone. SO I agreed. While we were speaking with them over the phone, my mom walked in and realized something was up. We tried to play it cool but it didn't work. We had to tell her as well :crying:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree almost 100%. If I accept her back into my life I don't know how our relationship will be. I might always be thinking maybe she wants to be with Mike. I'm still debating and haven't come to a conclusion on what to do just yet. I agree with your idea of keep monitoring and I'll develop a better idea of what to do. But I have to keep calling her otherwise she'll worry and become suspicious.
> 
> I have already started working on detaching myself from her. The idea of divorce sounds a little easier than it did yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if she even wishes to have sex with him. Hug was not a code word for sex. She said it in Punjabi language, and for those who know punjabi she said "Thanks glwkri pawn lyi". It couldn't mean anything other than "thanks for giving me a hug".
> 
> I don't care if she was a virgin or not before marriage. I am still weighing this. I know she has put a lot of effort into deceiving me. This is the only thing telling me to let her go for good.
> 
> Thank you all for your input into this crazy saga. FML!


Also I know you hate the idea of divorce and I completely understand because we come from the same culture and we aren't brought up to get up and leave when things get tough in marriage but think of it this way if one of your arms got gangrene would you rather cut it off to save the rest of your body or would you keep that arm because you couldn't bear the idea of not having 2 arms. It's the same thing would you rather go through the pain now to save your future and be happy in the long run or would you rather stay with her and have a miserable future later on. Remember one thing- once a liar always a liar. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Malaise

Mek said:


> I think I need to add a few things so you guys get a better picture of her. You only heard of her evil deeds which is why everyone thinks divorce is the only answer. A few things that suggest she has some feelings for me: (only ones I can remember right now):
> 
> - I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow.
> 
> - Before she left Canada, she left hidden post-it notes around the bedroom saying very cute/romatic things about me/us.
> 
> - She hates it when I go to my second job. She feels I shouldn't be working this hard, when my parents usually think I'm not working enough! It bothers her so much.
> 
> - She feels jealous if I add a female friend on facebook. Asks me angrily who she is lol.
> 
> - She gets excited whenever I return home from work (sometimes)
> 
> - Whenever I get sick, even if it's something minor, she becomes overly concerned
> 
> - She ALWAYS answers my phone calls, no matter how busy she is <3 unless she's angry at me and wants me to know she's angry
> 
> - I'm sure there are many other things to indicate her genuine love for me.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if lying to me about Mike completely invalidates the above points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Initially I only wanted to tell my brother. But he suggested that our aunt/uncle have much more experience and they have helped him in the past and wont tell anyone. SO I agreed. While we were speaking with them over the phone, my mom walked in and realized something was up. We tried to play it cool but it didn't work. We had to tell her as well :crying:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree almost 100%. If I accept her back into my life I don't know how our relationship will be. I might always be thinking maybe she wants to be with Mike. I'm still debating and haven't come to a conclusion on what to do just yet. I agree with your idea of keep monitoring and I'll develop a better idea of what to do. But I have to keep calling her otherwise she'll worry and become suspicious.
> 
> I have already started working on detaching myself from her. The idea of divorce sounds a little easier than it did yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if she even wishes to have sex with him. Hug was not a code word for sex. She said it in Punjabi language, and for those who know punjabi she said "Thanks glwkri pawn lyi". It couldn't mean anything other than "thanks for giving me a hug".
> 
> I don't care if she was a virgin or not before marriage. I am still weighing this. I know she has put a lot of effort into deceiving me. This is the only thing telling me to let her go for good.
> 
> Thank you all for your input into this crazy saga. FML!


So she does all this cute stuff for you. Nice

And, she meets her old BF behind your back, communicates in secret with him.

Does the first negate the second?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I'm sure she cares for you, loves you. I'm sure in general she is not a bad person.

But she has a pecking order in her heart. Mike is clearly number one. This is proven by (1) her meeting up with Mike and (2) her lies of omission about meeting up with him.

Are cute notes enough to look the other way on this behavior? That is up to you.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mek, I am sorry to hear of your situation. So there are a few things that are probably worth noting:


Your wife has moved many miles from a life, upbringing and childhood she knew. Canada is a new, (cold) and very westernised society. Of course she would have a boy (friend) that she was interested in. Who wouldn't have. So I fully understand her "missing" parts of her early life and her affection for "Mike".

Also Punjabis are amongst the most passionate people in India. Add this to the mix in knowing that she had affection for this man. To the point that she even wished to marry him even though her father refused the proposal. At some point she would have envisaged a life with him including kids etc. That all went away with a wave of her father's hand. I am not going to argue the merits or demerits of an arranged marriage but it sounds like there was mutual attraction when the two of you met, which is good. However, that didn't mean that she forgot all about Mike, nor would one expect her to. If she did, she would be a truly shallow person.

I don't think this is about sex. She probably gets a lot of sex with you and is not lacking. However, it is about friendship and love and the loss of it beyond her control. In her mind, Mike was and is a good person - someone she had affection for. Tough situation for anyone in that position. So this might have been an opportunity to try and get some of that control back in her driving the timeline and the way in which they split up and Mike was said goodbye to. That doesn't make you any less of a man.

So it seems to me that the real issue here is her lying to you about contacting him etc. While she didn't tell you it doesn't seem like she made great efforts to cover her tracks - you found out reasonably easily. I don't know how old each of you is (or how experienced in relationships) but it would seem natural (especially given your cultural background) that she would be afraid of telling you what she was really feeling and what she intended to do about it for many reasons. Your backlash. A general lack of understanding about emotions and what they mean and what to do about them. etc etc.

She may be cheating or she may not be. I am just giving you a possible other side of this story. The fact is that if she truly desires Mike more than you, then you must let her go my friend. Not out of jealousy or anger, but out of love. If you truly love her and Mike is who she loves and wants, then just let her go (as a famous thread on this forum described). It will be painful for you at first and possibly emasculating and embarrassing in your culture, but just let her go and be the bigger man. This is if, and only if, she truly wants Mike. Encourage her to be honest with you and let her know that you are truly ready to end the marriage amicably if that is what she wants. Just insist on the truth with no threat of backlash.

Have this conversation with her. Don't tell her what you know or how you know, just let her tell you. Ask for the truth even though you know some of it. If she lies about what you already know, then you will know that you don't have the truth and you can proceed with divorce based on just that.

Good luck my friend.


----------



## Andy1001

Mek said:


> I think I need to add a few things so you guys get a better picture of her. You only heard of her evil deeds which is why everyone thinks divorce is the only answer. A few things that suggest she has some feelings for me: (only ones I can remember right now):
> 
> - I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow.
> 
> - Before she left Canada, she left hidden post-it notes around the bedroom saying very cute/romatic things about me/us.
> 
> - She hates it when I go to my second job. She feels I shouldn't be working this hard, when my parents usually think I'm not working enough! It bothers her so much.
> 
> - She feels jealous if I add a female friend on facebook. Asks me angrily who she is lol.
> 
> - She gets excited whenever I return home from work (sometimes)
> 
> - Whenever I get sick, even if it's something minor, she becomes overly concerned
> 
> - She ALWAYS answers my phone calls, no matter how busy she is <3 unless she's angry at me and wants me to know she's angry
> 
> - I'm sure there are many other things to indicate her genuine love for me.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if lying to me about Mike completely invalidates the above points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Initially I only wanted to tell my brother. But he suggested that our aunt/uncle have much more experience and they have helped him in the past and wont tell anyone. SO I agreed. While we were speaking with them over the phone, my mom walked in and realized something was up. We tried to play it cool but it didn't work. We had to tell her as well :crying:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree almost 100%. If I accept her back into my life I don't know how our relationship will be. I might always be thinking maybe she wants to be with Mike. I'm still debating and haven't come to a conclusion on what to do just yet. I agree with your idea of keep monitoring and I'll develop a better idea of what to do. But I have to keep calling her otherwise she'll worry and become suspicious.
> 
> I have already started working on detaching myself from her. The idea of divorce sounds a little easier than it did yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if she even wishes to have sex with him. Hug was not a code word for sex. She said it in Punjabi language, and for those who know punjabi she said "Thanks glwkri pawn lyi". It couldn't mean anything other than "thanks for giving me a hug".
> 
> I don't care if she was a virgin or not before marriage. I am still weighing this. I know she has put a lot of effort into deceiving me. This is the only thing telling me to let her go for good.
> 
> Thank you all for your input into this crazy saga. FML!


I would gather up all her little post it notices,print out all her messages to Mike and have them overnighted to her in India,if she doesn't come home immediately then you know what she thinks of you and her marriage to you.


----------



## Blondilocks

"I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow."

The sole reason for her trip was to get the transcripts. She's been there over a week and hasn't even contacted the university.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Mek this not the time to make decisions, I would wait to talk to her in person when you can go over everything watch her body language....and alone away from every one....at this point...keep and print out everything....I suspect that when she met you she loved Mike...and still does on some level...but I think she loves you too....to what degree in comparison I don't know...not sure she does.


----------



## Mek

Thanks for the replies. 

manfromlamancha you are right. I think she changed over time. When she was still in India awaiting her Canadian Visa, it seemed she loved me a LOT more. So many nights she would cry saying how can you leave me here. It was deep. I think ever since she came to Canada and realized life isn't what she had envisioned it would be, her love also decreased. That is when she started thinking of Mike. Before I was all she ever wanted or needed. Maybe she got bored of me I don't know. I believe she thinks if she was with Mike her life would have been better. One time we got into a fight and she said Mike would never do this to me. This was after her phone calls with Mike and I told her to stop talking to him. I was upset about this comment but eventually recovered.

If she wants Mike more than me I am happy to let her go. But problem is I know she still wants her life to be with me, it is the only possibility for her factoring everything in. She doesn't want to bring disgrace to her family. If I leave her her parents are going to be extremely disappointed with her. What will her relatives think? And her being so fragile and sensitive she won't be able to withstand all that pressure. I'm afraid she will commit suicide if it comes to that. I don't know, maybe she will run off with Mike?? I hope this happens. 

On What's app Mike said he's coming to her village tomorrow. I don't know why as it is extremely dangerous if they're seen together. It's so hard waiting. It's night in India now so we'll see what happens.

For the one asking if she wanted me to come along, she did say it many times, but that was probably just from the top. I couldn't go and actually didn't want to to get a little breather from her for a while. But in reality she probably wanted to go alone.

Once a liar always a liar, is this 100℅ always the case?

I want everyone to know that I will take some sort of action. Not sure how to proceed just yet. I am inclining towards telling her parents first. Saying how am I suppose to carry on with this type of girl. If I don't disclose that I'm spying on her, I can say that someone saw them when they met up. But I also wanted them to know she says "I love you" to this other guy. When the time comes, maybe about a week from now, is it OK if I tell them that I was tapping into her phone?


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Mek

I am saving all the proof. Also forgot to mention that before she left Canada, she wanted me to get her pregnant. We tried a lot but were unsuccessful. If she did not plan a long term marriage with me why would she want a child with me?



Blondilocks said:


> "I called her and told her everything I miss about her. She said her love just grew for me a little. She said don't be sad and she'll try her best to return to me asap. She will call her university offices and ask if she can go there tomorrow."
> 
> The sole reason for her trip was to get the transcripts. She's been there over a week and hasn't even contacted the university.


There is an election coming up in India and everything is in chaos right now. She wanted to wait till that is over (Feb 4). 


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## As'laDain

Mek said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> manfromlamancha you are right. I think she changed over time. When she was still in India awaiting her Canadian Visa, it seemed she loved me a LOT more. So many nights she would cry saying how can you leave me here. It was deep. I think ever since she came to Canada and realized life isn't what she had envisioned it would be, her love also decreased. That is when she started thinking of Mike. Before I was all she ever wanted or needed. Maybe she got bored of me I don't know. I believe she thinks if she was with Mike her life would have been better. One time we got into a fight and she said Mike would never do this to me. This was after her phone calls with Mike and I told her to stop talking to him. I was upset about this comment but eventually recovered.
> 
> If she wants Mike more than me I am happy to let her go. But problem is I know she still wants her life to be with me, it is the only possibility for her factoring everything in. She doesn't want to bring disgrace to her family. If I leave her her parents are going to be extremely disappointed with her. What will her relatives think? And her being so fragile and sensitive she won't be able to withstand all that pressure. I'm afraid she will commit suicide if it comes to that. I don't know, maybe she will run off with Mike?? I hope this happens.
> 
> On What's app Mike said he's coming to her village tomorrow. I don't know why as it is extremely dangerous if they're seen together. It's so hard waiting. It's night in India now so we'll see what happens.
> 
> For the one asking if she wanted me to come along, she did say it many times, but that was probably just from the top. I couldn't go and actually didn't want to to get a little breather from her for a while. But in reality she probably wanted to go alone.
> 
> Once a liar always a liar, is this 100℅ always the case?
> 
> I want everyone to know that I will take some sort of action. Not sure how to proceed just yet. I am inclining towards telling her parents first. Saying how am I suppose to carry on with this type of girl. If I don't disclose that I'm spying on her, I can say that someone saw them when they met up. But I also wanted them to know she says "I love you" to this other guy. When the time comes, maybe about a week from now, is it OK if I tell them that I was tapping into her phone?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



do you not want to be married to her? from what you have told us, simply informing her that you know about her plans to meet her boyfriend and that you intend to divorce her for her deception is likely enough to get her bee lining back to canada. if you want to work on the marriage after that, so be it. if not, so be it.

who gives a crap that you have a spy app on her phone? she hasn't gone physical yet, and if you really want to divorce her, you can probably do so AND keep her from actually carrying out such a shameful act. 

i cant for the life of me understand how you can just sit there and do nothing...

you could literally probably prevent your wife from cheating on you simply by informing her that you know. and yet you would rather let her cheat. 

WTF?


----------



## Malaise

Mek said:


> I am saving all the proof. Also forgot to mention that before she left Canada, she wanted me to get her pregnant. We tried a lot but were unsuccessful. *If she did not plan a long term marriage with me why would she want a child with me?
> 
> 
> 
> *There is an election coming up in India and everything is in chaos right now. She wanted to wait till that is over (Feb 4).
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


If she wanted a long term marriage why would she meet Mike behind your back?


----------



## Malaise

I'll answer my own question : because you weren't supposed to find out.

About the meeting or the convos.


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## manfromlamancha

Mek I understand that the reason you haven't told her that you know is you want to see if she really loves you and by confronting her you may never find out the truth.

Believe me I do understand the culture for many reasons and if Mike really loves her he would have to support her and take her out of harms way (if you and her got divorced). The parents would suffer but all that would be forgotten after a few months.

If it comes down to that make sure that she understands what she would be walking into and advise her (and Mike) to be prepared for it.

But at this moment, I cannot really say if she is going to cheat to the extent that we are saying. To some degree she has already cheated emotionally and that is for you and her to talk about and determine whats next. In my last text I explained that I would expect her to still have feelings for Mike but not to act on them primarily out of respect and love for you.

If that is how she acts then you should provide her with a safe and trusted environment for her to talk with you about it.

If she goes ahead and betrays then it should be game set and match - its over!

Some of the others are saying to confront her now so as to shock her out of any "affair fog" she may be in and to some extent to c0ckbl0ck Mike. This is a valid point and could save a lot of pain down the line. This way if she truly wants to be with Mike it should come out with encouragement from you for her to come clean and tell you how she feels. If she realises she was in a fog, then you have stopped her from making a very big mistake. So to some extent I would talk to her before she meets him (whatever the time difference). Do it asap!

Tell her that if she meets him then you will assume that she has made her decision and the marriage is over.

Dont hesitate Mek! Time and tide wait for nobody!


----------



## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> manfromlamancha you are right. I think she changed over time. When she was still in India awaiting her Canadian Visa, it seemed she loved me a LOT more. So many nights she would cry saying how can you leave me here. It was deep. I think ever since she came to Canada and realized life isn't what she had envisioned it would be, her love also decreased. That is when she started thinking of Mike. Before I was all she ever wanted or needed. Maybe she got bored of me I don't know. I believe she thinks if she was with Mike her life would have been better. One time we got into a fight and she said Mike would never do this to me. This was after her phone calls with Mike and I told her to stop talking to him. I was upset about this comment but eventually recovered.
> 
> If she wants Mike more than me I am happy to let her go. But problem is I know she still wants her life to be with me, it is the only possibility for her factoring everything in. She doesn't want to bring disgrace to her family. If I leave her her parents are going to be extremely disappointed with her. What will her relatives think? And her being so fragile and sensitive she won't be able to withstand all that pressure. I'm afraid she will commit suicide if it comes to that. I don't know, maybe she will run off with Mike?? I hope this happens.
> 
> On What's app Mike said he's coming to her village tomorrow. I don't know why as it is extremely dangerous if they're seen together. It's so hard waiting. It's night in India now so we'll see what happens.
> 
> For the one asking if she wanted me to come along, she did say it many times, but that was probably just from the top. I couldn't go and actually didn't want to to get a little breather from her for a while. But in reality she probably wanted to go alone.
> 
> Once a liar always a liar, is this 100℅ always the case?
> 
> I want everyone to know that I will take some sort of action. Not sure how to proceed just yet. I am inclining towards telling her parents first. Saying how am I suppose to carry on with this type of girl. If I don't disclose that I'm spying on her, I can say that someone saw them when they met up. But I also wanted them to know she says "I love you" to this other guy. When the time comes, maybe about a week from now, is it OK if I tell them that I was tapping into her phone?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I was actually thinking of telling you that. That don't reveal how you know but that someone that knows the two of you, saw her with Mike. Someone also mentioned that her purpose of going to India was to get her transcripts and she hasn't done that all. 

Also like you said that maybe she started having second thoughts about you and the marriage after coming to Canada and that's something I'm not going to agree with. When you truly love someone you just love them no matter what the situation is because you just want to be with them and you want to work with them to make the situation better not look for other options. 

Another thing is that if you are thinking of talking to her parents, you need to talk to her first and tell her you know if you don't want to wait until she comes back. I do think that it's a good idea for you to two talk in person so this way no matter what the outcome is, it'll give you a some sort of closure from the whole situation. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## rzmpf

Mek said:


> If she did not plan a long term marriage with me why would she want a child with me?


As a mother of a Canadian citizen she does not need to be married to you to stay in Canada.

Or she just wants a child to satisfy her family or because she wants to be a mother.

Many possible reasons and many do not require her to be faithful or married to you.


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## Lostinthought61

Mek did she tell you that she ran into Mike at all even by accident? 
What i find disturbing is that she is continuing to lie to you and purposely keeping you in the dark as to make you unaware of her activities...Mek, at this point, if seeing Mike makes any point to continue to talk to her...i would tell her on the phone that at this point you will not be taking any more of her calls and tell her to say hi to mike when she sees him and hang up the phone...this will make her go crazy and burn up your phone, to which i would turn it off.


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## Andy1001

If she knew she couldn't get the transcripts until after Feb 5,why is she there allready.


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## Mek

I think you guys are right, I should talk to her first, before taking to the parents to avoid unnecessary drama. 

This is all that's on my mind right now. How should I bring it up? 

I want her to feel I'm OK if she wants to spend the rest of her life with Mike. BUT I know what her decision is going to be already. She's going to want to come back to me.

I want to tell her I can't ever trust her again. I want her to say "yes we should have a divorce because of what I did", but she is not going to. 

Also she's going to ask how I know all this and I have to tell her something. If I just say someone saw you she's going to make up some excuse. I don't want to tell her I spied because than this closes the door to future spying opportunities.

Thank you all for helping me out. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

Mek said:


> I think you guys are right, I should talk to her first, before taking to the parents to avoid unnecessary drama.
> 
> This is all that's on my mind right now. How should I bring it up?
> 
> I want her to feel I'm OK if she wants to spend the rest of her life with Mike. BUT I know what her decision is going to be already. She's going to want to come back to me.
> 
> I want to tell her I can't ever trust her again. I want her to say "yes we should have a divorce because of what I did", but she is not going to.
> 
> Also she's going to ask how I know all this and I have to tell her something. If I just say someone saw you she's going to make up some excuse. *I don't want to tell her I spied because than this closes the door to future spying opportunities.
> 
> *Thank you all for helping me out.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


If you divorce you don't need future spying opportunities.


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## PhillyGuy13

Call her. "Someone saw you out with Mike" 

If she asks who, tell her it's not important. ask her if it's true. If she denies, you know she is lying.

If she comes clean, there is hope for you. From your posts I do believe she cares for you, even loves you. But yes she still cares for Mike. But see what she has to say.

Never mention spying. The bleeding hearts on here will tell you spying is as big an offense as infidelity. They are full of it. Ignore them. Is it worth the time, aggravation and heartache? Maybe, maybe not. that's for each individual to decide.

The whole transcript thing raises eyebrows. (We are talking university transcripts right?) granted I'm in US and no expert on India Universities but I've worked in higher ed administration for years and I know there are ways to get foreign transcripts. If India has an archaic rule that you have to show up in person to get it that just seems silly in even traditional situations let alone for international travel.


----------



## Mek

Thank you Philly. Makes sense. 

I don't think they are going to do anything extreme. She asked him yesterday "have you arrived". He replied "no I am still in the city, going there tomorrow. I will stop by your village tomorrow and call you". I will give them a few more days before I go through with it. I want to know if I can find out more details. What her plans were. Why she's doing this.

We needed the transcripts to have them evaluated by WES. They require the transcripts be sealed, stamped, and signed. If there was a way to do it online none of her Indian connections knew of it. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

Mek said:


> I think you guys are right, I should talk to her first, before taking to the parents to avoid unnecessary drama.
> 
> This is all that's on my mind right now. How should I bring it up?
> 
> I want her to feel I'm OK if she wants to spend the rest of her life with Mike. BUT I know what her decision is going to be already. She's going to want to come back to me.
> 
> I want to tell her I can't ever trust her again. I want her to say "yes we should have a divorce because of what I did", but she is not going to.
> 
> Also she's going to ask how I know all this and I have to tell her something. If I just say someone saw you she's going to make up some excuse. I don't want to tell her I spied because than this closes the door to future spying opportunities.
> 
> Thank you all for helping me out.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


What you need to do is tell her that somebody told you a stranger was seen leaving her apartment.If she tells you a lie then tell her you are going to contact her family to make sure she is safe.If she still doesn't tell you about Mike then you may as well come clean and tell her you are divorcing her and telling her family in two days.If it is unsafe for her that will give her enough time to disappear with or without Mike.
You have a long life ahead of you,you don't want to spend it worrying about Mike or anyone else she wants to bring into the marriage.


----------



## Malaise

They don't have to do anything extreme. Al the deceit so far has been enough, hasn't it ?


----------



## natalyr16

Mek said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I am really confused and shocked right now, can't think straight, and hope some of you can help. I Just found out about this so please forgive me if I am all over the place. I live in Canada and got married to a girl from India in May 2015. It was an arranged marriage. We got to know each other, felt compatible and went ahead with the marriage. I sponsored her and she came to Canada within 8 months. Initially she told me she never had a boyfriend. When she came to Canada she said she did have a guy friend (not boyfriend) before marriage. Lets call him Mike. I don't remember the exact details, but she wanted to talk to him again to make sure he is doing well emotionally. She felt that she basically ditched him and he is probably depressed right now. Doesn't know where he is or how he is doing. She felt bad for just leaving him hanging. He has tried to contact her several times before marriage and she always ignored him. She was hesitant to tell me because she didn't know how I would react. But I was supportive, told her it's ok and you can find out about him to make sure he is doing ok. So she found him on Facebook and started talking to him.
> 
> 
> 
> So the talking went on for a few weeks. I found out about their relationship in more detail. They were much more closer than just friends. He was doing just fine. He was living in Malaysia and also found a new girl. I want to make this short although a lot went down during this period. He clearly loves her. She says she missed him too. It was getting to the point where I wasn't comfortable with them talking anymore. I installed a spy app on her phone but it wasn't working well. Anyway I told her to stop talking to him, since now she knows that he is OK. She was very reluctant, saying that I should trust her, but agreed. So she stopped talking to him. That mother****er says he would stop contacting her since he doesn't want to interfere with our life. I uninstalled the spy app because I trusted her.
> 
> 
> 
> Now she had to go to India to get her transcripts so that she can get them evaluated. She been there about a week now. Before she left Canada, I asked her if she ever talked to Mike, and she replied "you should trust me" and stopped talking to me for a while. Seemed a little suspicious, so 1 day before she left Canada, I installed a spy app on her phone. It doesn't record calls, but it records whats app convos. I didn't know she was talking to this guy until a few minutes ago because he was masked under a different username inside Whats app. She has actually been talking to this guy before she left Canada (from the way she was talking to him)  I used to check her phone from time to time while she was here (and she did not mind), but she probably deletes her convo's with him. From her convo, I learned that this guy is also back in India from Malaysia (they probably planned it  ). They both want to meet each other and have been saying that since the day she arrived. They were suppose to meet yesterday but didn't get the chance. I think they are going to meet today. In their convo, she even says she loves him :'( Misses him. Wants to see him. Only came to India to see him. I don't know what they are going to do. I call her everyday when she wakes up. What do I say to her now?
> 
> 
> 
> I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if this is the right decision.




This is really unfortunate but the heart wants what it wants. Take your blind fold off that's what's most important at this point 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobSimmons

Mek said:


> What hurts the most is she said she loves him.
> 
> I will have to call her in a bit. I don't know what to say
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Love these stories


----------



## BobSimmons

As'laDain said:


> do you not want to be married to her? from what you have told us, simply informing her that you know about her plans to meet her boyfriend and that you intend to divorce her for her deception is likely enough to get her bee lining back to canada. if you want to work on the marriage after that, so be it. if not, so be it.
> 
> who gives a crap that you have a spy app on her phone? she hasn't gone physical yet, and if you really want to divorce her, you can probably do so AND keep her from actually carrying out such a shameful act.
> 
> *i cant for the life of me understand how you can just sit there and do nothing...
> *
> you could literally probably prevent your wife from cheating on you simply by informing her that you know. and yet you would rather let her cheat.
> 
> WTF?


You're hooked aren't ya?


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## Lostinthought61

MEK, remember you do not owe her an explaination as to how you know......why is it that cheaters feel they are entitled to know how you obtain information, this is not a discourse on the rights of privacy this is an act of treason against the marriage. Perhaps this is a bigger question because your not the first person to respond in kind, what do i say if they want to knwo where i got my information...instead of the most revelent question...is it true and what do you have to say for yourself....they lose their rights to ask questions when they crossed the line. The hypocrisy of it all.


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## Andy1001

Xenote said:


> MEK, remember you do not owe her an explaination as to how you know......why is it that cheaters feel they are entitled to know how you obtain information, this is not a discourse on the rights of privacy this is an act of treason against the marriage. Perhaps this is a bigger question because your not the first person to respond in kind, what do i say if they want to knwo where i got my information...instead of the most revelent question...is it true and what do you have to say for yourself....they lose their rights to ask questions when they crossed the line. The hypocrisy of it all.


He could also play it like this.Tell her you were worried about her safety as a woman traveling alone in India during times of upheaval i.e. The election so you hired a private detective to keep a discreet watch on her.


----------



## MattMatt

Mek said:


> Thank you Philly. Makes sense.
> 
> I don't think they are going to do anything extreme. She asked him yesterday "have you arrived". He replied "no I am still in the city, going there tomorrow. I will stop by your village tomorrow and call you". I will give them a few more days before I go through with it. I want to know if I can find out more details. What her plans were. Why she's doing this.
> 
> We needed the transcripts to have them evaluated by WES. They require the transcripts be sealed, stamped, and signed. If there was a way to do it online none of her Indian connections knew of it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


They could have been sent by post?


----------



## MattMatt

@Mek would you like this moved to Coping With Infidelity?

It seems to fit better, there.


----------



## Mek

As'laDain said:


> do you not want to be married to her? from what you have told us, simply informing her that you know about her plans to meet her boyfriend and that you intend to divorce her for her deception is likely enough to get her bee lining back to canada. if you want to work on the marriage after that, so be it. if not, so be it.
> 
> who gives a crap that you have a spy app on her phone? she hasn't gone physical yet, and if you really want to divorce her, you can probably do so AND keep her from actually carrying out such a shameful act.
> 
> i cant for the life of me understand how you can just sit there and do nothing...
> 
> you could literally probably prevent your wife from cheating on you simply by informing her that you know. and yet you would rather let her cheat.
> 
> WTF?


Hello As'laDain, I understand what you are saying. Because of this post I have become more anxious of telling her asap. I really got to her yesterday when I called her, she seems to really care about me. I don't think she would do the act with Mike at this moment. He is visiting her villiage, I know it has to be brief. They might not even meet at all if the circumstances aren't right. If I wait I might get some more information out of them.



Xenote said:


> MEK, remember you do not owe her an explaination as to how you know......why is it that cheaters feel they are entitled to know how you obtain information, this is not a discourse on the rights of privacy this is an act of treason against the marriage. Perhaps this is a bigger question because your not the first person to respond in kind, what do i say if they want to knwo where i got my information...instead of the most revelent question...is it true and what do you have to say for yourself....they lose their rights to ask questions when they crossed the line. The hypocrisy of it all.


Thank you. This is what I'll do.



Andy1001 said:


> He could also play it like this.Tell her you were worried about her safety as a woman traveling alone in India during times of upheaval i.e. The election so you hired a private detective to keep a discreet watch on her.


Haha. I will consider this. First I'll try Xenote's suggestion.



Andy1001 said:


> If she knew she couldn't get the transcripts until after Feb 5,why is she there allready.


I didn't think much of it. She said she wanted to go Mid January so I booked the ticket for her. She has other stuff to do as well such as buy clothes etc. 


Yes you can move this to the other forum. I feel a little better now as I have a clearer picture of what needs to be done. Thank you all for your time and support. It means a lot.


----------



## JohnA

What did you decide to do and what have you done?


----------



## Spicy

Since she is cheating, I would give her zero information as to how you know. 
Let her worry about what you do and don't know, and how you got your info and the extent of it.
YOU ask the questions, NOT her.


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## Mek

JohnA said:


> What did you decide to do and what have you done?


I will confront her about it in a few days time. I'll pressure her to come clean and admit everything. If she comes clean, and I hope she does, I'll try my best to encourage her to divorce me and marry Mike. I'll say stuff like you went through all this trouble to see him. I know you still love him and he still loves you. Why are you both making yourselves miserable, won't you be happier if you're with him? I know I can't ever trust you anymore. Our relationship wont ever be the same again.

This way I'll know if she actually wants to be with me or Mike. If she chooses Mike, I'll be happy about it. If she chooses me, I wont agree to it right away. I'll make her beg to have me back.

But I have a feeling I will have a lot of trouble making her come clean. She will HAVE to tell me everything in order for our relationship to continue however. Maybe I'll just hang up if she doesn't start to speak the truth. How about I tell her I want you to type exactly how you deceived me on what's app. I'll reply to you when I feel satisfied.


I just called her and she mentioned my life is with you. I don't know if she suspects something. Maybe she detected the sadness and me talking more about our relationship....after her meeting with Mike. On what's app she had only a pic of her for a while, and I brought that up during our talk and she just laughed. She now changed it to a pic of both of us and said check out the pic and that she misses me. She hasn't talked to Mike over the phone or on What's app yet, which is unusual. Maybe she only wanted to see him once?


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## JohnA

Your plan is not good enough, it will fail. In short you are talking without information. 

First you need to read "not just friends" by Shirley Glass. Again if your wife is not in an AP then it is at least an EA. So first understand what you are faced with. Dr. Shirley Glass - Introduction - NOT "Just Friends" that's her site. There are quiz their for you to take: this is one of them 


The Slippery Slope

In the new crisis of infidelity, platonic friendships and workplace relationships are turning into emotional affairs, usually gradually, often without premeditation. Parties cross boundaries of emotional intimacy, sharing intimate information with a friend that is usually appropriately the exclusive territory of a husband or wife. When emotional boundaries are overstepped, the partner has taken the first step onto the slippery slope leading to emotional and eventually sexual infidelity. Even if the infidelity is "only" emotional, it often leads to a double life of deception and sexuality, threatening once secure marriages.

If you recognize that your friendship or your partner's friendship may be in the danger zone of too much emotional intimacy, use this awareness to address concerns about your marriage. This quiz will help you see where you stand.

Quiz: Has Your Friendship Become an Emotional Affair?*

Directions: Check Yes or No to the left of each statement.
Yes No	
1. Do you confide more to your friend than to your partner about how your day went?

Yes No	
2. Do you discuss negative feelings or intimate details about your marriage with your friend but not with your partner?

Yes No	
3. Are you open with your partner about the extent of your involvement with your friend?

Yes No	
4. Would you feel comfortable if your partner heard your conversation with your friend?

Yes No	
5. Would you feel comfortable if your partner saw a videotape of your meetings?

Yes No	
6. Are you aware of sexual tensions in this friendship?

Yes No	
7. Do you and your friend touch differently when you're alone than in front of others?

Yes No	
8. Are you in love with your friend?

* 
Scoring Key:

You get one point each for yes to questions 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, and one point each for no to 3, 4, 5.

If you scored near 0, this is just a friendship.
If you scored 3 or more, you may not be "just friends."
If you scored 7-8, you are definitely involved in an emotional affair.

*This quiz by Shirley P. Glass was first printed in USA Today (June 20, 1988) in an article by Karen Peterson, "When platonic relationships get too close for comfort," p. 6D.


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## JohnA

Because of the distance between the two of them the score will be low, but the other Quiz her score will be higher.


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## SunCMars

She may be aware of your spying. You have "outed" yourself, somehow. The WhatsUp texts that you "do receive" may have been carefully massaged by her polished, nailed hands. They have been sterilized. If so, they are crafted to "throw you off the scent".

That is why she keeps telling you she loves you, that you are number one. She panics when you do not call. All this to keep you calm and trusting.

You told your family about her actions already? Someone on your side may have let her family know of your situation. And they, in turn have tipped her off.

And yes, women's intuition is formidable.....if it is turned on.


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## manfromlamancha

Mek said:


> I will confront her about it in a few days time. I'll pressure her to come clean and admit everything. If she comes clean, and I hope she does, I'll try my best to encourage her to divorce me and marry Mike. I'll say stuff like you went through all this trouble to see him. I know you still love him and he still loves you. Why are you both making yourselves miserable, won't you be happier if you're with him? I know I can't ever trust you anymore. Our relationship wont ever be the same again.
> 
> This way I'll know if she actually wants to be with me or Mike. If she chooses Mike, I'll be happy about it. *If she chooses me, I wont agree to it right away. I'll make her beg to have me back.*
> 
> But I have a feeling I will have a lot of trouble making her come clean. She will HAVE to tell me everything in order for our relationship to continue however. Maybe I'll just hang up if she doesn't start to speak the truth. How about I tell her I want you to type exactly how you deceived me on what's app. I'll reply to you when I feel satisfied.
> 
> 
> I just called her and she mentioned my life is with you. I don't know if she suspects something. Maybe she detected the sadness and me talking more about our relationship....after her meeting with Mike. On what's app she had only a pic of her for a while, and I brought that up during our talk and she just laughed. She now changed it to a pic of both of us and said check out the pic and that she misses me. She hasn't talked to Mike over the phone or on What's app yet, which is unusual. Maybe she only wanted to see him once?


Again, I don't know if she is intending to cheat or just say goodbye to her dear friend and once potential mate. However, the whole idea of making her comfortable enough to tell you the truth whatever it is , is not to make her beg or punish her in anyway. Just letting her go to be happy is an act of love not punishment or anger! 

If she hasn't cheated and gets the courage and encouragement from you to talk freely and truthfully, I would thank her and assure her that she never needs to hide anything from you because you love her. If she tells you the truth and also chooses you (and doesn't cheat), let it be because she loves, respects and admires you - not because she is afraid! 

I don't think you need to become the macho angry Sikh and say "you have insulted my manhood, now beg for me!"

Just my thoughts. Remember, we don't know that she has done anything wrong other than not tell you about talking to him, and we covered why she may be doing this in one of my last posts.

On the other hand if she is cheating and you find out, then at least you know its game over and you dodged a bullet.


----------



## eric1

Mek said:


> I will confront her about it in a few days time. I'll pressure her to come clean and admit everything. If she comes clean, and I hope she does, I'll try my best to encourage her to divorce me and marry Mike. I'll say stuff like you went through all this trouble to see him. I know you still love him and he still loves you. Why are you both making yourselves miserable, won't you be happier if you're with him? I know I can't ever trust you anymore. Our relationship wont ever be the same again.
> 
> 
> 
> This way I'll know if she actually wants to be with me or Mike. If she chooses Mike, I'll be happy about it. If she chooses me, I wont agree to it right away. I'll make her beg to have me back.
> 
> 
> 
> But I have a feeling I will have a lot of trouble making her come clean. She will HAVE to tell me everything in order for our relationship to continue however. Maybe I'll just hang up if she doesn't start to speak the truth. How about I tell her I want you to type exactly how you deceived me on what's app. I'll reply to you when I feel satisfied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just called her and she mentioned my life is with you. I don't know if she suspects something. Maybe she detected the sadness and me talking more about our relationship....after her meeting with Mike. On what's app she had only a pic of her for a while, and I brought that up during our talk and she just laughed. She now changed it to a pic of both of us and said check out the pic and that she misses me. She hasn't talked to Mike over the phone or on What's app yet, which is unusual. Maybe she only wanted to see him once?




You're doing the 'pick me!' Dance in a very unhealthy and non-confrontational way. She has already picked him, she knows deep down what she's doing is a deal breaker for you. That's why she is lying.

If you want a chance at reconciliation you need to get out of infidelity yesterday. You call her right now and let her know that you're filing for divorce from her because she's been cheating on you with Mike. Period. You don't tell her how you know and you keep it short and sweet.

You are short and direct because the ball is now in her court. Reality kills affairs once she has that dose of reality the ball is, again, in her court. THIS is when she makes the decision - when you tell her you're her husband and you're not taking a back seat to anyone. Not when you allow her to date for two weeks to have time to fall more in love with this guy.

Good luck man, you can do this!!!!!


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## Cynthia

Do not tell her how you know. Just let her know that you are aware that she is cheating on you with Mike and that you will not tolerate it. Since you want to stay married to her, wait for her response and decide then if you want to try to work it out. Absolutely do not tell her that you have been reading her texts or mention the app. You know what you know. You do not have to prove it to her.

In reality, she is cheating, at least emotionally. What you don't know is if she's cheating physically. Since you still want to work it out with her, I highly recommend that you call her out immediately so she does not go beyond the point of no return.


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## turnera

They always ask how you know. Ignore that. Simply reiterate what you want.


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## TX-SC

I agree, it's none of her business how you know. Simply say that you know. But first, have her tell you directly whether she has seen this other guy while there. If she lies, then tell her you know she is lying and hang up. Then contact her parents and tell them why you are divorcing. So, do this:

1) After exchanging pleasantries as if nothing is going on, ask her if she has seen him while she is there. 
2a) If she answers yes, ask her why she would do this and keep it from you. 
2b) If she answers no, just say you are not convinced. "Lying would be very hard for me to overcome. Are you sure you have not seen him?" 
3) Tell her you only ever wanted her to have a happy life, and now you realize that the life that she desires is with the other man. She will weep, she will try to convince you otherwise, but you will be strong. 

You need to realize that cheaters are very persuasive (many of them anyway) and women can turn on the sweetness or waterworks so easily. It's almost scary how easily men can be manipulated. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Steve1000

Mek said:


> What hurts the most is she said she loves him.
> 
> I will have to call her in a bit. I don't know what to say


I work with hundreds of people from India. I realize that there are many success stories regarding arranged marriages. However, arranged marriages do not work well when one of the two spouses is already in love with someone else. Even if she comes back to you and stops herself from contacting "Mike", your marriage will never be as wonderful as you first hoped it would be. 

I'm sorry that you're in this painful situation.


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## Mek

Hello guys. I am at work right now but wanted to give you an update.I will address your posts at a later time. So I think I got the information I was looking for. I will translate and post her conversation with mike yesterday.

Some background. She has been having severe headaches on and off ever since our marriage. She is having headaches now, so she went to the city (lets call this city KP. This is where they first met as well) to get her eyes tested and go to the doctor. 
This is the jist of there convo:

Wife:I am going to KP to get medicine. Come there
Mike: I am already at KP with my sister. Who are you coming with?
Wife: My brother
Wife:: I am here at store XYZ

(They talk on the phone for 17 minutes. No idea what they talked about. She goes back home.)
(he calls her but she couldn't answer as she is with other people)

Wife: You called
Mike (Voice message): I called. You didn't answer, maybe you didn't think I was important. I thought no worries no big deal. Maybe you were busy. Not like you called me back, well don't worry. Are you fine? did you take your medicine? Take care of yourself. Everything OK? Dont get stressed out too much.
Wife: SOrry. everyone was home. My sister is sick. Please don't take me the wrong way.
Wife: I saw you at the shop in KP where they exchange money.
Mike. Yes. I miss you. Don't worry, I'm not angry at you.
Wife: I miss you too meri jaan (my life/my soul)
Wife: Did you see me at KP?
MIke: I came out quickly but I was too late. You guys had left.

(So he is at shop ABC exchanging malaysian money probably. He is with his brother. My wife's brother goes in as well to do his business and wife stays outside.

Wife: I saw you. You were busy writing something. I didn't come inside because I didn't know what to say to your brother.
Mike: My brother wouldn't say anything.
wife: Did you speak to my brother?
Mike: No he came and left so fast. 
Mike: Send me a new pic of yours
Wife: Don't have any new ones. I'll send em tomorrow. 

(She sent photos before. None were NSFW.)

Mike: I am missing you so much right now
Wife: I miss you too
Wife: I want to hug you so tight
Mike: me too
Wife: Please see mee one more time
Wife: I want to exchange a lot of words
Mike: Me too
Wife: Let me know when you have time. We will go to BT (a different city, about 30/45 minute drive)
Mike: For sure I will meet you once more
Wife: Alright. BUT....you have to get married
Mike: Oh
Wife: When you find a girl send me her pic
Mike; Why
Wife: I will tell you if she's good or not
Wife: I will not go back until you get married
Mike: Ok.    
Wife: Why? What problem do you have with marriage?
Mike: I will get married. Nothing. FOr you I will do anything
Wife: Just get married and I'll be happy
Mike: I'll get married quickly
Wife: But before I go meet me once more. I don't know when we will meet again
Mike: Okay
Wife: Let me know when you have time. Mike: Okay

(My wife took a stuffed cat which she admired with her to India)

Mike: Sends her the pic of her cat 
Wife: This is my baby
Mike: Ok I give you...sends baby pics

(I call her at this time. tell her I miss her and all that. She is happy, and it feels like she really loves me and wants to return to me. We hang up and she texts Mike)

Wife to Mike: :'( :'( :'( :'(
Mike: What happened
Wife: Nothing. I'm fine.


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## Lostinthought61

Mek, the mirror has two faces, the face they show the world and the face they see themselves...i fear that the face she is showing you and speaking to you is the face she shows the world and not the face she sees in the mirror that face belongs to mike...i am so sorry Mek, you will never know who the real person who lies besides you at night, if you move on with her....she has proven over and over again she is deceitful.


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## Malaise

Mek said:


> (I call her at this time. tell her I miss her and all that. She is happy, and it feels like she really loves me and wants to return to me. We hang up and she texts Mike)
> 
> Wife to Mike: :'( :'( :'( :'(
> Mike: What happened
> Wife: Nothing. I'm fine.


du·plic·i·tous
do͞oˈplisədəs/
adjective
adjective: duplicitous
deceitful.
"treacherous, duplicitous behavior"


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## eric1

Mek,

I do not say this to be rude, but to light a fire under you. If you would like to possibly retain to possibility of reconciliation you need to have her break up with her boyfriend immediately. Just call her now. It doesn't matter what time it is.

Please do this. I've been around this crap for so long and the ONLY thing that can hurt you at this stage is inaction. Your next actions are very, very simple but admittedly very emotionally-draining. And you need to do them now.


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## TX-SC

She is playing you like a violin. You need to call her immediately and let her know she should stay with her soul mate. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Mek

I will call her tonight guys. If I call her now she's going to think how could I have found out between the time and called and now. 

I was thinking of playing it cool when I tell her. Like how are you and stuff. And then say how is Mike. Then go from there. How does that sound? Any things you suggest I should say. I will re read all of your comments before I call.

Thanks again

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## becareful2

You are incredibly weak, Mek. Many here have strongly advised you to take action now but it's like you're getting some cheap thrill to see your wife cheat on you from afar. Take the decisive action now.


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## becareful2

Mek said:


> I will call her tonight guys. If I call her now she's going to think how could I have found out between the time and called and now.
> 
> I was thinking of playing it cool when I tell her. Like how are you and stuff. And then say how is Mike. Then go from there. How does that sound? *Any things you suggest I should say.* I will re read all of your comments before I call.
> 
> Thanks again


TX-SC has already told you: You need to call her immediately and let her know she should stay with her soul mate.

Tell her the divorce papers should be halfway done by the time she gets back.


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## Lostinthought61

MEK...the cool part ended a while ago...Get angry and just for get how you find out....tell her that you know about Mike and her and the stuff cat and how they talked on the phone and about all the crap they talked about. this is the time to reveal that you know all about it and that you feel like a fool to trust her, that she is dishonest, a liar and and you find her unworthy of being your wife.


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## BetrayedDad

Mek said:


> I love her so ****ing much. I don't think she would cheat on me. We have been trying to get a child for a while now. Sex life is gooooood. She gives it whenever I want it. I think will play it cool for now, so that I can find out how far she would go with him. How much she is willing to hurt me. If they ****, i will probably find out from their what's app convo. If they ****, its over. She has also been talking to him on the phone, but I have no idea what they say.


You say you, "want a divorce ASAP" and hand her, her walking papers.

You need to get real. She's been banging Malaysian Mike like it's her fvcking job. 

You got duped into this arraigned marriage. Salvage your dignity and bail.


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## PhillyGuy13

Yeah, if you want any hope of saving your marriage you have to blow this up now. Sounds like they haven't taken it physical- yet. But she wants hugs. He's a dude we all know what he wants. And if they meet up they will hook up. One last roll in the hay before she returns to you and sends Mike off to his own Plan B.

"I know you've been talking to Mike. You will cease all contact with him immediately, or else our marriage is over"


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## Mek

My thoughts were actually more positive after reading the chat, since she told him to find a wife. This was the information I was looking for. In her head, she only wanted to see her old love one more time. She couldn't tell me since I world get mad. She still planned on spending the rest of her life with me.

Yes she said "my jaan" and I miss you, but she has said that before too. There's nothing that got me MORE upset than I already was. So why is it that now I have to call her and say I want a divorce, when before playing it cool and telling her to tell the truth was the way to go?



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC

Mek said:


> My thoughts were actually more positive after reading the chat, since she told him to find a wife. This was the information I was looking for. In her head, she only wanted to see her old love one more time. She couldn't tell me since I world get mad. She still planned on spending the rest of her life with me.
> 
> Yes she said "my jaan" and I miss you, but she has said that before too. There's nothing that got me MORE upset than I already was. So why is it that now I have to call her and say I want a divorce, when before playing it cool and telling her to tell the truth was the way to go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


She is deceiving you. Why would you want a wife that does such things. She is telling him how much she misses and wants him to see her, and you are justifying your inaction by talking about how much she loves you. Remember, she is telling him the same thing. He is her soul mate. 

Don't be so weak. Stand up for yourself. Blow this relationship to H3ll. Whether you divorce or not, you Must make a very strong statement. And, if you do take her back, she must NEVER talk to him again. Still, I think you should tell her to stay there and divorce immediately. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

How can you be cool when she is LYING TO MEK...i'm not sure really get it...you may have her body but not her heart, well not all of it...so tell me how not telling her that she has been lying to you since she left...she should know how angry you are with her and how dishonest she has been...that is just a fact...don't you think.


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## manfromlamancha

Mek said:


> My thoughts were actually more positive after reading the chat, since she told him to find a wife. This was the information I was looking for. In her head, she only wanted to see her old love one more time. She couldn't tell me since I world get mad. She still planned on spending the rest of her life with me.
> 
> Yes she said "my jaan" and I miss you, but she has said that before too. There's nothing that got me MORE upset than I already was. So why is it that now I have to call her and say I want a divorce, when before playing it cool and telling her to tell the truth was the way to go?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Mek - isn't this what I told you I suspected was the case ? Now I know the Punjabi culture very well (notice I didn't say the all inclusive Indian culture) even though I am not an Indian. I think I fully understand (and I believe so do you) what is going on.

As I said, he was to be her mate and she wants her form of closure in terms of saying goodbye and getting over him. She is sad for him and that he didn't get to marry her and hence wants him to have happiness and move on with his life. She is almost playing out a Bollywood scene here - the tragic heroine, the boyfriend that was and the noble husband that is.

I also believe that she sees her future with you (and that love will grow as it often does in arranged marriages). All I was saying was to find out how badly she feels and if she really, really wants to be with him. If that was the case then I suggested that you let her go with no fear of repercussions from you. But it seems that this is not the case. Understandably, she has feelings for him. He did the noble thing and proposed to her parents - they made use of their veto rights and said no. Somebody set the two of you up - her parents and therefore, she said yes - and you got married. Doesn't mean that her previous feelings for him just vanished. I don't believe that they will do anything more than hug and say goodbye. Apart from not telling you for the reasons you (and I) suggested, she has not done anything to suggest that she has evil on her mind.

Now, to deal with the lying to you, this is where you need to step up and make her understand that she has no reason to lie to you. You understand, and might have helped her through this grieving process and that the biggest enemy to your marriage is keeping secrets like this. In an ideal world she would have told you that she needs to say goodbye and to trust that she would never betray you. And you would have told her that if she really wanted to be with him, she could go with your blessing, but to end the marriage first.

I hope you manage to achieve this level of honesty at some stage in the near future. Good luck.


As for the transcripts - although I am not from the subcontinent, I am more than aware of the bureaucracy that exists and the pain-in-the-a$$ that it can be - simply getting any paperwork from a government or educational institution (even in this modern electronic computerised world and with India at the centre of IT to some extent) - funny, I know! So I understand why she stood a better chance of chasing it up there physically rather than sending off for it and hoping for the best.

Take care of yourself!


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## becareful2

Mike = Her heart, her love (the love of her life, the one that got away)
Mek = Plan B, Mr. Stable, arranged marriage, doesn't get her heart because it has room for only one and it's been occupied by Mike.

She was willing to lie to you and travel half way around the world to meet the love of her life, and here you are, thinking your wife wouldn't cheat. Oh, yes, she did! I would not be surprised at all if this has already gone physical. It's an emotional affair at the very least.


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## lucy999

I think your wife wants Mike to get married to assuage the guilt she has about marrying you and not Mike.

Listen, there is absolutely nothing good or promising for you in any of what she's said. She's in love with Mike but can't have him because she wasn't allowed to. Unrequited love.

This will follow you for as long as you're married to her. You will always be looking over her shoulder. That's not healthy, nor is it love. It's torture. Im so sorry.


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## Steve1000

In in the minority here, but I recommend that he not call his wife at this point. If he calls her, she tells him that she never would have cheated on him and learns that her phone is bugged. If he doesn't call her, he will get the truth of how far his wife would go with this other man.


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## PhillyGuy13

She loves this guy so much she is willing to let him go and wants him to be happy while she is on the other side of the world. He's not some one night stand that she will forget about the next morning.

Interpret that any way you will.

But know where her heart is.


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## PhillyGuy13

Steve1000 said:


> In in the minority here, but I recommend that he not call his wife at this point. If he calls her, she tells him that she never would have cheated on him and learns that her phone is bugged. If he doesn't call her, he will get the truth of how far his wife would go with this other man.


I get this side too. He's dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't. Things will never be the same.

The advantage of telling her now, it puts up additional reinforcements to prevent her from going too far. At least at this point (assuming it had never gone physical yet) they can both work hard to repair the marriage, if that's what he wants.


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## BobSimmons

Lol ... sheesh.

A lot of folk getting wound up. Let the man do as he wants. He's got it all worked out.


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## Malaise

It doesn't matter what her motives are. She's been lying to you. 

And it doesn't matter if she knows how you know. Not now. Don't play it cute, just tell her you know about him. If she denies, quote some of her texts ( although you don't have to prove it to her )


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## becareful2

Steve1000 said:


> In in the minority here, but I recommend that he not call his wife at this point. If he calls her, she tells him that she never would have cheated on him and learns that her phone is bugged. If he doesn't call her, he will get the truth of how far his wife would go with this other man.


You are naive if you think every cheater is going to text about a physical affair or whatever physical thing they did, like a sensual hug, a passionate kiss, a quickie. The texts, in this case, would probably only contain things like, "I love you, I miss you, thank you for the closure, I'll always remember you. Indians aren't as careless as westerners in that regard. They are also more "modest," as ironic as that may sound.


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## Steve1000

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I get this side too. He's dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.


That's a fitting summary. Either way, he'll spend a long time second guessing himself. I guess that his wife won't sleep with Mike, because they won't have the opportunity.


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## Steve1000

becareful2 said:


> You are naive if you think every cheater is going to text about a physical affair or whatever physical thing they did, like a sensual hug, a passionate kiss, a quickie. The texts, in this case, would probably only contain things like, "I love you, I miss you, thank you for the closure, I'll always remember you. Indians aren't as careless as westerners in that regard. They are also more "modest," as ironic as that may sound.


I don't think that naive is the right word, but your point is taken. There is a real possibility that there would be new phrases with indirect meanings such as "that special moment".


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## Blondilocks

She told him to find a wife so she could stop feeling guilty for dumping him. Do you think he would have asked her father for her hand if she hadn't encouraged him? Men don't do this in a vacuum.

She probably wanted to get pregnant before she left so if she did hook up with this guy she wouldn't have to worry about getting pregnant.

The first 'thank you for the hug' was because she had been telling him some sob story. The frownies via text after talking with you? More sob story to come. This woman is not happy with you. My God, she's happier with that stuffed cat than with you.


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## becareful2

Blondilocks said:


> She told him to find a wife so she could stop feeling guilty for dumping him. Do you think he would have asked her father for her hand if she hadn't encouraged him? Men don't do this in a vacuum.
> 
> *She probably wanted to get pregnant before she left so if she did hook up with this guy she wouldn't have to worry about getting pregnant.*
> 
> The first 'thank you for the hug' was because she had been telling him some sob story. The frownies via text after talking with you? More sob story to come. This woman is not happy with you. My God, she's happier with that stuffed cat than with you.


I was thinking the same thing. She didn't choose Mek; their parents did. If there had been no pressure, I think she would have chosen Mike. He did right by her by asking her parents for her hand in marriage. In her mind, he's honorable and will always be Top Shelf. She can learn to love Mek and to co-exist with him, but he (Mek) wasn't her first choice.


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## Mek

manfromlamancha said:


> Mek - isn't this what I told you I suspected was the case ? Now I know the Punjabi culture very well (notice I didn't say the all inclusive Indian culture) even though I am not an Indian. I think I fully understand (and I believe so do you) what is going on.
> 
> As I said, he was to be her mate and she wants her form of closure in terms of saying goodbye and getting over him. She is sad for him and that he didn't get to marry her and hence wants him to have happiness and move on with his life. She is almost playing out a Bollywood scene here - the tragic heroine, the boyfriend that was and the noble husband that is.
> 
> I also believe that she sees her future with you (and that love will grow as it often does in arranged marriages). All I was saying was to find out how badly she feels and if she really, really wants to be with him. If that was the case then I suggested that you let her go with no fear of repercussions from you. But it seems that this is not the case. Understandably, she has feelings for him. He did the noble thing and proposed to her parents - they made use of their veto rights and said no. Somebody set the two of you up - her parents and therefore, she said yes - and you got married. Doesn't mean that her previous feelings for him just vanished. I don't believe that they will do anything more than hug and say goodbye. Apart from not telling you for the reasons you (and I) suggested, she has not done anything to suggest that she has evil on her mind.
> 
> Now, to deal with the lying to you, this is where you need to step up and make her understand that she has no reason to lie to you. You understand, and might have helped her through this grieving process and that the biggest enemy to your marriage is keeping secrets like this. In an ideal world she would have told you that she needs to say goodbye and to trust that she would never betray you. And you would have told her that if she really wanted to be with him, she could go with your blessing, but to end the marriage first.
> 
> I hope you manage to achieve this level of honesty at some stage in the near future. Good luck.
> 
> 
> As for the transcripts - although I am not from the subcontinent, I am more than aware of the bureaucracy that exists and the pain-in-the-a$$ that it can be - simply getting any paperwork from a government or educational institution (even in this modern electronic computerised world and with India at the centre of IT to some extent) - funny, I know! So I understand why she stood a better chance of chasing it up there physically rather than sending off for it and hoping for the best.
> 
> Take care of yourself!


manfromlamancha I was hoping you would reply as your posts are always spot on. This is exactly what I think of l the situation as well and I think you are right about everything. Thank you for replying. 

I am still at work, at my last call. I will go home after this and probably call her tonight. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Nucking Futs

Mek said:


> (I call her at this time. tell her I miss her and all that. She is happy, and it feels like she really loves me and wants to return to me. We hang up and she texts Mike)
> 
> Wife to Mike: :'( :'( :'( :'(
> Mike: What happened
> Wife: Nothing. I'm fine.


So you call her and she blows sunshine up your ass, then shows Mike that talking to you made her sad. She's lying to someone here. Is she lying to Mike, the love of her life, when she shows him the sad faces after talking to you, or is she lying to you, the man her parents made her marry, when she tells you that she really loves you and wants to return to you?


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## Blondilocks

BobSimmons said:


> Lol ... sheesh.
> 
> A lot of folk getting wound up. Let the man do as he wants. He's got it all worked out.


I suspect so.


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## Mek

becareful2 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. She didn't choose Mek; their parents did. If there had been no pressure, I think she would have chosen Mike. He did right by her by asking her parents for her hand in marriage. In her mind, he's honorable and will always be Top Shelf. She can learn to love Mek and to co-exist with him, but he (Mek) wasn't her first choice.


At the time I was the best thing that happened to her life. She was 110℅ happy with the marriage at the time. 

I don't think she plans on hooking up with him BUT since she's high on this emotional affair thing she can make mistakes. But I will confront her before this happens. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

Regardless of intentions, closure or whatever between a Bollywood film and real culture.

Lies kill marriages, especially lies about seeing past loves.


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## Blondilocks

From your first post: "In their convo, she even says she loves him :'( Misses him. Wants to see him. *Only came to India to see him."*

If you weren't worried about them hooking up, you wouldn't have put spyware on her phone and you wouldn't have started this thread.

As even you can see, the transcripts was a bogus excuse and all you really know is that you have paid for your wife to take a trip to see her boyfriend who she loves and misses.


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Hello guys. I am at work right now but wanted to give you an update.I will address your posts at a later time. So I think I got the information I was looking for. I will translate and post her conversation with mike yesterday.
> 
> Some background. She has been having severe headaches on and off ever since our marriage. She is having headaches now, so she went to the city (lets call this city KP. This is where they first met as well) to get her eyes tested and go to the doctor.
> This is the jist of there convo:
> 
> Wife:I am going to KP to get medicine. Come there
> Mike: I am already at KP with my sister. Who are you coming with?
> Wife: My brother
> Wife:: I am here at store XYZ
> 
> (They talk on the phone for 17 minutes. No idea what they talked about. She goes back home.)
> (he calls her but she couldn't answer as she is with other people)
> 
> Wife: You called
> Mike (Voice message): I called. You didn't answer, maybe you didn't think I was important. I thought no worries no big deal. Maybe you were busy. Not like you called me back, well don't worry. Are you fine? did you take your medicine? Take care of yourself. Everything OK? Dont get stressed out too much.
> Wife: SOrry. everyone was home. My sister is sick. Please don't take me the wrong way.
> Wife: I saw you at the shop in KP where they exchange money.
> Mike. Yes. I miss you. Don't worry, I'm not angry at you.
> Wife: I miss you too meri jaan (my life/my soul)
> Wife: Did you see me at KP?
> MIke: I came out quickly but I was too late. You guys had left.
> 
> (So he is at shop ABC exchanging malaysian money probably. He is with his brother. My wife's brother goes in as well to do his business and wife stays outside.
> 
> Wife: I saw you. You were busy writing something. I didn't come inside because I didn't know what to say to your brother.
> Mike: My brother wouldn't say anything.
> wife: Did you speak to my brother?
> Mike: No he came and left so fast.
> Mike: Send me a new pic of yours
> Wife: Don't have any new ones. I'll send em tomorrow.
> 
> (She sent photos before. None were NSFW.)
> 
> Mike: I am missing you so much right now
> Wife: I miss you too
> Wife: I want to hug you so tight
> Mike: me too
> Wife: Please see mee one more time
> Wife: I want to exchange a lot of words
> Mike: Me too
> Wife: Let me know when you have time. We will go to BT (a different city, about 30/45 minute drive)
> Mike: For sure I will meet you once more
> Wife: Alright. BUT....you have to get married
> Mike: Oh
> Wife: When you find a girl send me her pic
> Mike; Why
> Wife: I will tell you if she's good or not
> Wife: I will not go back until you get married
> Mike: Ok.
> Wife: Why? What problem do you have with marriage?
> Mike: I will get married. Nothing. FOr you I will do anything
> Wife: Just get married and I'll be happy
> Mike: I'll get married quickly
> Wife: But before I go meet me once more. I don't know when we will meet again
> Mike: Okay
> Wife: Let me know when you have time. Mike: Okay
> 
> (My wife took a stuffed cat which she admired with her to India)
> 
> Mike: Sends her the pic of her cat
> Wife: This is my baby
> Mike: Ok I give you...sends baby pics
> 
> (I call her at this time. tell her I miss her and all that. She is happy, and it feels like she really loves me and wants to return to me. We hang up and she texts Mike)
> 
> Wife to Mike: :'( :'( :'( :'(
> Mike: What happened
> Wife: Nothing. I'm fine.


If you don't want someone else to go through what you're going to through then you need to call her as soon as possible and tell her everything. She's only making Mike get married because she thinks that this way she can move on but that won't be the case. She'll always think about him or she'll contact him from time to time and this way create problems in Mike's marriage. 

Honestly Mek if she truly loved you then after getting married she would have been like "Mike who?" Mike's not a kid that he wouldn't have been able to take care of himself. The way I see it after marriage your spouse should be your only concern along with your family. Your exes don't count. 

I'm sorry to say this and I'm a woman so trust me when I say this that she only tells you that she misses and that she loves you and that her life is with you because she knows that's what you want to hear and so you don't suspect her. 

Do yourself a favor and get out before it's too late. The more you linger the harder it's going to be for you. Don't concern yourself as to what will happen to her she dug her own grave. Did she think about you? Did she think how much this whole would hurt you? My mom always says that your deeds are never hidden, they always come to light. Find yourself a girl that will give you the love and honesty that you deserve. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

It all seems very obvious to me what's happening. I think they're going to meet in another town to have sex one last time. What she is doing is not fair to her husband.
It's called cheating. She is giving her heart to another man. Whether or not she has sec with him is immaterial. 
I think she will return to you. And I think in her mind, you'll always be second best.
If you can live with that, you need to stop spying and stop hurting yourself.
This is just my opinion. Spying just gives you more to hurt over.
If you're going to forgive her no matter what happens, just stop.

I mean, she told the guy HE had her heart. That she loved HIM.

I believe her-/- on that.

Why did you finance her rendezvous? That's wrong in my opinion.


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## eric1

She's asking him to get a wife because she is flirting with him. It's her roundabout way of telling him that he's a catch.

I've been privy to a number of chat logs (I'm a tech) between cheaters and you'd be amazed at how often this tactic is used.


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## TRy

Mek said:


> My thoughts were actually more positive after reading the chat, since she told him to find a wife.


 Your wife is having a full blown Emotional Affair (EA) with this other man (OM). The reason that she is telling him to marry is so that it will make it easier for her to continue with the EA, since she can tell you that he got married and is no longer a threat. Do not believe it. Whomever he rushes to marry, it will not be out of love. This other person that he marries will be like you. Someone that you marry for show only, with little love. For love they will always have each other. 

EAs can go on for years and destroy marriages without them having sex or them even seeing each other. What makes EAs so damaging is that they will be meeting each others emotional needs instead of their spouses. Read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" to better understand what I am telling you. For example, did you know that sex is not even near the top of the list of needs for women, and that conversation is near the top of the list instead? That means that by the other man meeting her need for conversation instead of you, your wife's love for him will grow at the expense of your relationship with her. Troubling is that when you asked her to cut contact with him, she refused, called you controlling, and told you that you need to trust her. If you read threads in the infidelity section you will see that calling you controlling and telling you to trust her is right out of the EA cheaters script. They all say it.

QUESTION: How does a cheater say fu(k you?
ANSWER: They say "trust me".


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## Jasel

So is the plan to drag this out for as long as you can until she actually DOES wind up getting physical with him?? Because if so, things are going great.


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## Mek

I know you guys are disappointed that I haven't told her yet. But the timing is not right right now. I wanted to tell her today but I can't. I am doing an install in the morning and have to wake up at around 5:30am. I talked to my wife and she doesn't have any plans on going anywhere today. Her what's app chat does not indicate any plans with Mike. I will wake up in 4.5 hours and check up on her. 

I understand the urgency, but I have Wednesday and Thursday off so telling her tomorrow night is ideal. I can stay up the whole night if need be this way. I will not let her do anything physical.


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## JohnA

@manfromlamancha, without going back and reviewing your old posts, you advise here is very different then you give usually. Whicj makes me step back and think I think you might be right. I still think he should have addressed then issue sooner then later. I also think neither of them have a good grasp of what a marriage is. 

Bottom line I could not live knowing I was second choice. It would destroy me. 

Mek, are you sure you can live like this? Don't you wonder what it would like to be Mike? 

You want to be a prick, send mike a text: I want to be you to my wife, I have filed for divorce tell her she is free. Then send the same text to your wife with the heading, just set to mike.


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## manfromlamancha

JohnA said:


> @manfromlamancha, without going back and reviewing your old posts, you advise here is very different then you give usually. Whicj makes me step back and think I think you might be right. I still think he should have addressed then issue sooner then later. I also think neither of them have a good grasp of what a marriage is.
> 
> Bottom line I could not live knowing I was second choice. It would destroy me.
> 
> Mek, are you sure you can live like this? Don't you wonder what it would like to be Mike?
> 
> You want to be a prick, send mike a text: I want to be you to my wife, I have filed for divorce tell her she is free. Then send the same text to your wife with the heading, just set to mike.


 @JohnA - you are right in this and the reason is I have a pretty good understanding of Mek's culture, and can just picture this going down. I am not from his culture or anything like that but I have seen my fair share of arranged marriages there and believe me when I say, this is par for the course. This is not the first time I have seen a Punjabi girl brought out to the west having been through the arranged marriage process and having been asked to give up the life she knew at home etc. This is not the first time a girl like this has been asked to leave behind the life she had including the "love of her life" etc only to want closure (not sexual) by saying goodbye on her terms. Note that in a great many (probably majority of) cases, this works out well for the girl and she not only falls in love with her picked husband but is respected, happy and has a good life going forward. Her parents pick well and know when to say no to a suitor that is not suitable. But when you are young, you love who you love.

So in Mek's case, as an older guy and knowing what I know of his people and having seen some of it play out here in the UK as well as in Canada, I made the comments I did. If this were our Western Culture, I would go all Sherlock Holmes on her a$$ and delve deeper - but this is an Indian (Punjabi) arranged marriage and is different.


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## hifromme67

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Yeah, if you want any hope of saving your marriage you have to blow this up now. Sounds like they haven't taken it physical- yet. But she wants hugs. He's a dude we all know what he wants. And if they meet up they will hook up. One last roll in the hay before she returns to you and sends Mike off to his own Plan B.
> 
> 
> 
> "I know you've been talking to Mike. You will cease all contact with him immediately, or else our marriage is over"




That won't work and why should he threaten and force her? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

What @manfromlamancha says makes a lot of sense and he is right that you must establish trust in truth in your marriage. I don't think it's a good idea to tell her everything or to give her information about how you know all this. I wouldn't lie to her about it, but would tell her that you are not going to share how you know. All that important here is that you do know and that the lies and deception have to stop immediately. If she knows that you are reading her texts and listening to her phone messages it could make things much worse.

I think she wants Mike married for various reasons and one is so he will forget about her. She probably feels guilty for leading him on when she knew her parents would not approve of the union.


Mek said:


> We needed the transcripts to have them evaluated by WES. They require the transcripts be sealed, stamped, and signed. If there was a way to do it online none of her Indian connections knew of it.


That's what she told you, but you know that she has not told you the truth regarding other details of her trip. You don't know if it’s really true that she couldn’t get the transcripts via mail. Did she even try? I seriously doubt it's true, because transcripts can be ordered on-line. They are mailed in two envelopes. The transcripts are in a sealed enveloped marked with something to the effect of, "if this envelope has been opened, these transcripts are no longer official." They are put into another envelope and mailed.

Regarding her wanting to get pregnant, I think there are a lot of possible reasons why she wanted to get pregnant. I wouldn't assume it's due to her worry about Mike getting her pregnant, although that is a possibility. From the text conversation you posted, it doesn't look like that's what's going on though. It seems more like what manfromlamancha said is happening.


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## PhillyGuy13

hifromme67 said:


> That won't work and why should he threaten and force her?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because his alternative is to sit on his hands and hope and pray she has the moral fortitude to not cheat on him further. Puts her on notice now that if she wants to work on the marriage then she needs to cease all contact immediately 

If it was me I'd wash my hands of her altogether. But OP doesn't want to do that.


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## TRy

manfromlamancha said:


> So in Mek's case, as an older guy and knowing what I know of his people and having seen some of it play out here in the UK as well as in Canada, I made the comments I did. If this were our Western Culture, I would go all Sherlock Holmes on her a$$ and delve deeper - but this is an Indian (Punjabi) arranged marriage and is different.


 I usually agree with you, but in this case I do not. I too have great experience with this culture. Although I am Western and not from that culture, I have grown to understand it from my friends, and even have been a groomsman in two weddings of that culture. I am also friends with a number of couples that had arranged marriages. With this understanding, I do not think that the wife should get a free pass to lie and be in an emotional affair (EA). I believe that this situation makes the EA more dangerous rather than less dangerous, since the cheating wife feels that because of her parents she had no choice but to cheat. She must either commit 100% to the arranged marriage and her husband, or the husband should end this marriage. Knowing this culture, the husband must strongly act now to stop them from meeting, because if this gets physical in any way, he will never be able to forgive her.


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## Cynthia

TRy said:


> I usually agree with you, but in this case I do not. I too have great experience with this culture. Although I am Western and not from that culture, I have grown to understand it from my friends, and even have been a groomsman in two weddings of that culture. I am also friends with a number of couples that had arranged marriages. With this understanding, I do not think that the wife should get a free pass to lie and be in an emotional affair (EA). I believe that this situation makes the EA more dangerous rather than less dangerous, since the cheating wife feels that because of her parents she had no choice but to cheat. She must either commit 100% to the arranged marriage and her husband, or the husband should end this marriage. Knowing this culture, the husband must strongly act now to stop them from meeting, because if this gets physical in any way, he will never be able to forgive her.


Since I have agreed with much of what @manfromlamancha has said, I'm going to comment. I agree that she should not just get a pass, but if @Mek wants to save his marriage (his wife obviously has no plan to leave him for Mike), he needs to establish an atmosphere is safety, honesty, and trust in his marriage or they will be miserable from now on. Mek doesn't trust his wife now. She needs to know that. She needs to know that she is going to have to do some heavy lifting to build trust and that they have to work together to be a safe haven for each other, no more lying and cheating. This will be very difficult if she feels threatened.

However, he has to set firm boundaries that show he values himself and isn't going to be manipulated or lied to. Either they have each other's backs or the marriage is baseless.

One thing is that she has to let go of her affection for Mike. She needs to reject and renounce it and transfer all romantic feelings to her husband away from Mike. The things she has said to Mike and the things she has done are dividing her from her husband and breaking down the marriage. If she wants a happy marriage, she needs to acknowledge that and purposefully reject her feelings for Mike. I would recommend that she write Mike a final letter with Mek's approval of the final document where she tells Mike that she wishes him well, hopes he finds a wonderful woman to love and care for, and that she never wants to see or hear from him again so that she can focus on making her marriage the best it can be and being there 100% for her husband. She should also say something to the effect of, "I release you from any promises or vows we have made to each other and permanently sever our relationship."

She cannot continue to live with a heart divided if she wants a healthy marriage. She is a big girl and she needs to put a permanent stop to such childish thinking and behavior.


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## Mek

Thank you all. I am loving these replies because I am feeling the exact same way. 

Like some of you have mentioned, the goal of my talk with her is not going to be to force her to stop talking or meeting with Mike, and threaten her the marriage is can be over. It's going to be to explain to her that I can't have a wife that deceives and lies to me. I'm not OK living a life like that.

I agree with you CynthiaDe. I will tell her she has to reject her feelings of Mike, that's the only way our marriage can work. However if she ever feels she misses him, she can talk to me about it. I just don't want her doing anything behind my back like she did now. 


PhillyGuy13 said:


> Because his alternative is to sit on his hands and hope and pray she has the moral fortitude to not cheat on him further. Puts her on notice now that if she wants to work on the marriage then she needs to cease all contact immediately
> 
> If it was me I'd wash my hands of her altogether. But OP doesn't want to do that.


I won't need to threaten her to scare her. Just telling her I know is going to be enough. She is VERY sensitive and fragile. I have a feeling when I break the news she will faint. The crying is going to start almost immediately.

Update on current events: her mom fainted and fell down yesterday. She was really worried and was crying to me over the phone about it. She said we will get her checked up tomorrow. This happened once before as well. I hope it's not a mistake to confront her at this time. I'm still going to go through with it.

Mike said he was at her village today, but doesn't look like they met. Only spoke on the phone for 6 seconds. She barely spoke to Mike at all on what's app. She did send him the pics she promised (to me as well). She also sent me additional ones where I was hugging and kissing her from when she was in Canada. She went to sleep without even talking to Mike. (I hope she's not deleting her messages with Mike, because I'm not sure if the spy app picks can still pick them up). However, I don't think she is deleting them. She probably didn't talk because she wasn't in the mood (sad about her mom).

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Mek said:


> I agree with you CynthiaDe. I will tell her she has to reject her feelings of Mike, that's the only way our marriage can work. However if she ever feels she misses him, she can talk to me about it. I just don't want her doing anything behind my back like she did now.


There will never be a good time to talk to her about this. However, there is no time like the present to deal with what is happening with her right now and to set firm, healthy boundaries that will serve you well both now and in the future. If she is so frail that she faints from stress, I recommend she get some counseling if and when she returns to you, so that she can develop some mental fortitude. Perhaps her lack of courage and strength is why she is so fickle and inappropriate.


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## manfromlamancha

OK to wrap up what I have been saying:

I do agree that her being in contact with Mike is not healthy for her marriage.

I have seen exactly this situation many times before, only a few times did it work out badly - mostly the new bride let go of her feelings for her lost love and got more involved in her current life pretty quickly developing love and respect for her new husband.

Every time it worked out well, somebody older got involved with good, solid advice (which is what Mek needs) - the husband needs to empathise yet, as all of you are saying, lay down strict boundaries - which is what I believe Mek is doing/going to do.

The main reason for me posting has been achieved and this for Mek to create an environment where the two of them can be completely honest with each other without fear while understanding that there are boundaries in place that need to be respected. I believe, again, that Mek is in the process of doing this. If he succeeds, he will have a much better marriage or easier divorce if things do go sour.

I don't know if Mek's wife is going to physically cheat on Mek (she may, she may not, she may have already done - I don't know her). Its difficult to say that she has entered an EA because she always had feelings for Mike and is now trying to close them down - I reiterate that she probably wants Mike to be married to help her with this.

I do believe that she has feelings for Mek. Else she would be yelling blue murder to Mike, her parents etc etc. She may be trying to make it work to appease her parents (it seems that her mother is not well) but I don't think so - I think she is actually developing feelings for her husband. Again, for those of you who are familiar with how arranged marriages work, this is normal.

I don't know about Mike though and it may be that he would try something if she made it easy for him and being high on emotion she may have succumbed to any advances from him - and it is only for that reason that I suggested that maybe Mek should call her to c0ckbl0ck this!

Now if this were a run-of-the-mill situation anywhere else I would say go to town on her a$$! But its not - its India! Not to say that cheating doesn't happen but this is very normal for a great many arranged marriages.


----------



## areenhaque26

TRy said:


> I usually agree with you, but in this case I do not. I too have great experience with this culture. Although I am Western and not from that culture, I have grown to understand it from my friends, and even have been a groomsman in two weddings of that culture. I am also friends with a number of couples that had arranged marriages. With this understanding, I do not think that the wife should get a free pass to lie and be in an emotional affair (EA). I believe that this situation makes the EA more dangerous rather than less dangerous, since the cheating wife feels that because of her parents she had no choice but to cheat. She must either commit 100% to the arranged marriage and her husband, or the husband should end this marriage. Knowing this culture, the husband must strongly act now to stop them from meeting, because if this gets physical in any way, he will never be able to forgive her.


I agree a 1000%.I'm in an arranged marriage myself and I'm 100% committed to my marriage. Granted my situation and Mek's wife's situation is different but she has no right to ruin someone else's life. 

With arranged marriages, both individuals take a huge leap of faith and it is a gamble because you don't know how the other person really is like. We don't get the leisure of going out on dates or being with that person for long periods of time to see whether or not they're the right person. The way I see it if you're honest and faithful to your marriage and to your spouse, you learn to love them and eventually fall in love with them because you learn to work together to make your marriage work.

If she loved Mike so much then she should have stood her ground and got married to him to begin with. From everything that I've read it seems like her family is a somewhat modern because if she's from a village then she would have been married by at least 20 and she's 28 and they recently got married. This is something that's not common in villages or small towns. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## aine

MattMatt said:


> It was an arranged marriage so they would have been of the same faith. Both would have been Sikhs.


Not necessarily, Sikhism is a religion not a ethnicity. They could be Indian Muslims, Indian hindus or Indian sikhs. All have been known to have arranged marriages.


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## aine

Mek said:


> Thank you all. I am loving these replies because I am feeling the exact same way.
> 
> Like some of you have mentioned, the goal of my talk with her is not going to be to force her to stop talking or meeting with Mike, and threaten her the marriage is can be over. It's going to be to explain to her that I can't have a wife that deceives and lies to me. I'm not OK living a life like that.
> 
> I agree with you CynthiaDe. I will tell her she has to reject her feelings of Mike, that's the only way our marriage can work. However if she ever feels she misses him, she can talk to me about it. I just don't want her doing anything behind my back like she did now.
> 
> 
> I won't need to threaten her to scare her. Just telling her I know is going to be enough. *She is VERY sensitive and fragile*. I have a feeling when I break the news she will faint. The crying is going to start almost immediately.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I'm sorry to say, she is anything but sensitive and fragile. 
Many Indian women ( I have lots of experience with them, as colleagues, relatives, etc) can present a facade of fragility and vulnerability but have the fortitude of an ox. In fact they use their femininity and apparent fragility as a weapon to manipulate. You are being played big time. 
A woman that can carry on a deception of this magnitude is not fragile nor sensitive. She is wily, knows what she wants and aims to get it. WAKE UP!


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## manfromlamancha

aine said:


> Not necessarily, Sikhism is a religion not a ethnicity. They could be Indian Muslims, Indian hindus or Indian sikhs. All have been known to have arranged marriages.


Let me include Roman Catholics and Syrian Orthodox Christians (all Indian) too! All get arranged marriages too! As I said, its an Indian thing - not a religious thing.


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## Thor

manfromlamancha said:


> I have seen exactly this situation many times before, only a few times did it work out badly - mostly the new bride let go of her feelings for her lost love and got more involved in her current life pretty quickly developing love and respect for her new husband.
> 
> Every time it worked out well, somebody older got involved with good, solid advice (which is what Mek needs) - the husband needs to empathise yet, as all of you are saying, lay down strict boundaries - which is what I believe Mek is doing/going to do.
> 
> The main reason for me posting has been achieved and this for Mek to create an environment where the two of them can be completely honest with each other without fear while understanding that there are boundaries in place that need to be respected. I believe, again, that Mek is in the process of doing this. If he succeeds, he will have a much better marriage or easier divorce if things do go sour.


I hope you are right. My XW though did not work out well. She was still carrying a torch for her first love, ass-clown the older professional musician. (Today is his birthday, just remembered that). This was the one that got away from her, and she never really got over him. Even 30 yrs later we had issues. Looking back now, though we didn't call it an EA back then it certainly was an EA on her part for the early part of our marriage. She denied having feelings but it was obvious as the sun in the sky on a hot summer day whenever she got together with friends from her home town. 

Honestly, idk how one determines that the old feelings have been truly expunged and the person is being completely honest. Assuming your scenario is accurate and she is attempting to get some closure, the trick for Mek is going to be feeling confident she really has put him in the past.


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## manfromlamancha

Thor said:


> I hope you are right. My XW though did not work out well. She was still carrying a torch for her first love, ass-clown the older professional musician. (Today is his birthday, just remembered that). This was the one that got away from her, and she never really got over him. Even 30 yrs later we had issues. Looking back now, though we didn't call it an EA back then it certainly was an EA on her part for the early part of our marriage. She denied having feelings but it was obvious as the sun in the sky on a hot summer day whenever she got together with friends from her home town.
> 
> Honestly, idk how one determines that the old feelings have been truly expunged and the person is being completely honest. Assuming your scenario is accurate and she is attempting to get some closure, the trick for Mek is going to be feeling confident she really has put him in the past.


I really do understand what you are saying - to some degree many wives miss their first loves and end up idolising them sometimes - e.g. my wife used to sometimes say how wonderful her previous boyfriend was until I reminded her that he was a drug addict who was living off his parents who were rich. Still, never could get her to say a bad thing about him but she said less about how wonderful he was. Although, I must admit, she ALWAYS said how much better (and sexier :smile2 I was!

This however is totally different - my wife is from here and couldn't even imagine an arranged marriage. Indian arranged marriages are totally different cases.


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## turnera

So...when are you confronting?


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## Mek

She's not telling me the complete truth. Only part truth, and part lie still. I told her YOu have to tell me the complete truth for our marriage to continue, but she is not doing that. She's only telling me how much she thinks I know.


I didn't tell her how I know. I just told her "I know someone". She said when you blocked his number on my phone, I unblocked it and we started messaging on whats app. I came to India and learned he was here as well. He started calling me but I gave it to my mom. He also texts me on What's app and we exchanged hello/hi's. we never met, we never touched. I told her gave her like 2 chances already to come clean and she's not. I hung up both times i heard a lie.l I said I cant live with a liar in my marriage and hung up again. She's calling me furiously and crying.

She says my life is only with you and I cant live without you. Maybe this is expected? Why would she tell me that she met with Mike if she thinks I don't know that fact....It will only make me jealous and ruin our relationship. Maybe I should let her go (let her go as in don't be so harsh on my expectations) She's still calling me....any quick input will be appreciated.

THank you!


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## Mek

I'm thinking about giving her a day to think about it. Before confronting her I told her I'm gonna stay with her, I wont get mad at her, if she tells me the truth. But still she is leaving facts out and lying about some. I didn't really prepare for this but I should've known it was going to happen. 

She was begging me to talk to her. But I ignored her calls. Now she has stopped calling and messaging. I don't know how she's doing. Maybe I should've answered?

My plan of action was:

1. break the news, get her to tell the truth. Tell her I'm not angry but you have to tell me everything honestly.
Once she does that:

2. Try convincing her to marry mike

Once she says no I only want to be with you:

3. Tell her what kind of marriage I will accept. without deceit and lies

4 inform her she should reject feelings for mike. But she can talk to me about it.


I'm still stuck on #1 with her. Damn I didn't want it to go this way. I wanted her to feel safe and that she can trust me, but now she's just afraid that she might lose me. She's probably only thinking what do I say to get him back? And that's not what I want her to think.

Confused on what to do, any ideas?


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## TX-SC

You have told her she must tell the whole truth and not lie, yet she continues to lie. You should tell her that you know more than she thinks you do, and if she tells you a lie again you will immediately call her parents and tell them that your marriage is over. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

By continuing to lie she's showing she has little respect for you, that you'll believe anything you hear.

Give her more rope. Find out how far she'll go with the deception.


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## Mek

But isn't lying expected in this situation? She hasn't gone through the whole thought process that we've gone through. She's acting on instinct right now. She doesn't know that the right thing to do in this situation is come clean. I feel like I should've took another route. Any way to fix this now? Maybe call her and comfort her somehow?

She has called Mike and they talked for 12 seconds. He was at her village yesterday. Not sure if he's still there. It's possible that she's with him now.

Edit: Location tracker shows she is in KP right now (close by city where she first met Mike)


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## TX-SC

Lying is only expected if you know you have done something wrong. You need to tell her that you may know more than she thinks you do and she has to be 100 percent honest right now or you are done with her. You MUST show that you mean what you say. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

Mek said:


> But isn't lying expected in this situation? She hasn't gone through the whole thought process that we've gone through. She's acting on instinct right now. She doesn't know that the right thing to do in this situation is come clean. I feel like I should've took another route. Any way to fix this now? *Maybe call her and comfort her somehow?
> 
> *She has called Mike and they talked for 12 seconds. He was at her village yesterday. Not sure if he's still there. *It's possible that she's with him now.
> 
> *Edit: Location tracker shows she is in KP right now (close by city where she first met Mike)



Do you see the disconnect here?


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## aine

Mek said:


> She's not telling me the complete truth. Only part truth, and part lie still. I told her YOu have to tell me the complete truth for our marriage to continue, but she is not doing that. She's only telling me how much she thinks I know.
> 
> 
> I didn't tell her how I know. I just told her "I know someone". She said when you blocked his number on my phone, I unblocked it and we started messaging on whats app. I came to India and learned he was here as well. He started calling me but I gave it to my mom. He also texts me on What's app and we exchanged hello/hi's. we never met, we never touched. I told her gave her like 2 chances already to come clean and she's not. I hung up both times i heard a lie.l I said I cant live with a liar in my marriage and hung up again. She's calling me furiously and crying.
> 
> She says my life is only with you and I cant live without you. Maybe this is expected? Why would she tell me that she met with Mike if she thinks I don't know that fact....It will only make me jealous and ruin our relationship. Maybe I should let her go (let her go as in don't be so harsh on my expectations) She's still calling me....any quick input will be appreciated.
> 
> THank you!


Mek, she needs consequences, get the papers drawn up, tell her you know a hell of alot more than she thinks, you have given her two times to come completely clean, she didn't. Three strikes she is out. Tell your parents and her parents, anxious parents in the background will blow up her world some more. She needs to realize the seriousness of the situation. Don't threaten just follow through.


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## aine

Mek said:


> I'm thinking about giving her a day to think about it. Before confronting her I told her I'm gonna stay with her, I wont get mad at her, if she tells me the truth. But still she is leaving facts out and lying about some. I didn't really prepare for this but I should've known it was going to happen.
> 
> She was begging me to talk to her. But I ignored her calls. Now she has stopped calling and messaging. I don't know how she's doing. Maybe I should've answered?
> 
> My plan of action was:
> 
> 1. break the news, get her to tell the truth. Tell her I'm not angry but you have to tell me everything honestly.
> Once she does that:
> 
> 2. Try convincing her to marry mike
> 
> Once she says no I only want to be with you:
> 
> 3. Tell her what kind of marriage I will accept. without deceit and lies
> 
> 4 inform her she should reject feelings for mike. But she can talk to me about it.
> 
> 
> I'm still stuck on #1 with her. Damn I didn't want it to go this way. I wanted her to feel safe and that she can trust me, but now she's just afraid that she might lose me. She's probably only thinking what do I say to get him back? And that's not what I want her to think.
> 
> Confused on what to do, any ideas?


Can you please take your head out of your arse, she is playing you like a violin. YOU are already suckered by falling for her so called sensitivity and fragility, now begging her to tell you the truth. You are not coming off as a strong male in this scenario at all. 
YOu have to be willing to lose this marriage to save it. Go 180 on her, tell her you will talk to her face to face. No point in talking over the phone. You have not decided to divorce or not over this yet. You want the whole truth, you know the truth but want to hear it from her. If she lies on one small matter, you are going through with the filing.
Follow through.


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## Mek

TX-SC said:


> Lying is only expected if you know you have done something wrong. You need to tell her that you may know more than she thinks you do and she has to be 100 percent honest right now or you are done with her. You MUST show that you mean what you say.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


I told her to choose her words wisely because it could mean the end of us. But she still didn't listen. I told her I know everything. She obviously kept asking how I know but i said don't worry about that I'm not gonna tell you. Just think that God told me (she's sometimes superstitious so she might actually believe this if I want her to)

Why did I think she would agree to tell the truth so easily. I feel that is very ignorant. 

She's texting and calling again saying:

My name
What happened to you
Pick up the phone at least
I know you love me a lot
Plzzzz
Talk to me
I don't know what someone has told you

So she's probably with Mike and he probably remeasured her that there's no way I could find out that they hugged (i'm pretty sure they did it privately) She was also pretty adamant about not meeting him.


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## TX-SC

Mek said:


> I told her to choose her words wisely because it could mean the end of us. But she still didn't listen. I told her I know everything. She obviously kept asking how I know but i said don't worry about that I'm not gonna tell you. Just think that God told me (she's sometimes superstitious so she might actually believe this if I want her to)
> 
> Why did I think she would agree to tell the truth so easily. I feel that is very ignorant.
> 
> She's texting and calling again saying:
> 
> My name
> What happened to you
> Pick up the phone at least
> I know you love me a lot
> Plzzzz
> Talk to me
> I don't know what someone has told you
> 
> So she's probably with Mike and he probably remeasured her that there's no way I could find out that they hugged (i'm pretty sure they did it privately) She was also pretty adamant about not meeting him.


This is tough, I know. All you know for sure is that she is lying to you. She doesn't know what you might know, and she is scared to say too much. 

You must use this to your advantage. Talk to her again, tell her you know she is lying and it is because of this lying that you will have to divorce her. You can forgive indiscretion to an extent, but lying destroys your trust in her. How can there be a marriage if there is no trust? Offer to her one last time to tell you who she has seen and what interaction they have had. If she lies again, go silent on her for the rest of the night/day. 

If she continues to lie, you must assume that she has done more than hug him. Look up the term trickle truth and how it is used. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## emmasmith

You should go for couples counseling! Couples counseling provides opportunity for you to understand relationship differently. So you can improve your loving engagement, nagging issues, strengthen your communication skills through private exercises with your partner.


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## Mek

After those texts, I messaged her the following. Since she is with Mike right now she will actually think about this:

Please run away with Mike
Don't tell your parents anything
You will both be happy. Think about it
I wont mind
Hide somewhere with Mike, Kate (Lets call her Kate from now on)
This is your only chance
make some other excuse to your parents. Don't worry
I wont ever be able to trust you again. I'm going to meditate a lot now. I'm going to become very religious (since she hates this)

She hasn't checked them yet which is weird...


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## Mek

You guys are bringing up divorce. It didn't even cross my freaking mind when I called her tonight. I honestly thought it was going to work out. I'm not saying I wont do it if that's what it comes to. I need some time to process it.

She has checked the messages but did not reply. WOW

She is back at her village now


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## ConanHub

Consequences....


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## Malaise

and Truth


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## aine

Mek said:


> After those texts, I messaged her the following. Since she is with Mike right now she will actually think about this:
> 
> Please run away with Mike
> Don't tell your parents anything
> You will both be happy. Think about it
> I wont mind
> Hide somewhere with Mike, Kate (Lets call her Kate from now on)
> This is your only chance
> make some other excuse to your parents. Don't worry
> I wont ever be able to trust you again. I'm going to meditate a lot now. I'm going to become very religious (since she hates this)
> 
> She hasn't checked them yet which is weird...



This is frustrating to watch, if you want the drama of a Hindi movie, you are playing it out here. STOP engaging her at all, by doing this you are telling her you are desperate, you are willing to be lied to and walked over. This is not a hindi movie, this is your ****ing life! 

She has you by the short and curlies, if you continue with this ****, why don't you threaten to cut your wrists or some other such bs and feed into the drama some more. 
Man up and put an end to this. Tell her you are no longer engaging with her until she arrives back, you have enough information to hang her with, you have already visited the lawyer, (do that and draw up papers, no need to do through but she needs a cold hard shock) and you will deal with her when she gets back. Tell both sets of parents and then go silent. Let her deal with her parents, that should create enough drama. Meanwhile you think long and hard about whether you want to be married to a woman who lies and cannot be trusted. Quit with the hindi movie drama, go no contact now.


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## Mek

39 minutes after I text her she says:

I only want to stay with you
I only love you
It's ok you will trust me at some point
my God is aware (of my innocence)

Her and Mike also haven't exchanged messages since Tuesday morning (Canadian time) which is extremely fishy. She must be deleting her messages and the spy app is not able to detect them.

aine, you are right that I shouldn't have engaged her. I'm thinking of going to sleep by sending this message to her:

"I know more than you think I know, Kate. I only asked for the truth. Tomorrow I will be going to lawyers office"


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## As'laDain

Mek said:


> 39 minutes after I text her she says:
> 
> I only want to stay with you
> I only love you
> It's ok you will trust me at some point
> my God is aware (of my innocence)
> 
> Her and Mike also haven't exchanged messages since Tuesday morning (Canadian time) which is extremely fishy. She must be deleting her messages and the spy app is not able to detect them.
> 
> aine, you are right that I shouldn't have engaged her. I'm thinking of going to sleep by sending this message to her:
> 
> *"I know more than you think I know, Kate. I only asked for the truth. Tomorrow I will be going to lawyers office"*


you should have lead with that...


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## hylton7

Its clear she loves the other man just let her go dude


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## Mek

Sorry for all the posts I'm making in such a short period. I wanted to update what just happened before I go to sleep:

Mek: I know more than you think I know. I only asked for the truth. Tomorrow I am going to a lawyer's office. What you want to say to your parents, start thinking.

Kate: Plz don't do this Mek
Please give me one more chance
Plzzzzzzzzzz
I will do exactly as you say

And that's that. Goodnight.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> After those texts, I messaged her the following. Since she is with Mike right now she will actually think about this:
> 
> Please run away with Mike
> Don't tell your parents anything
> You will both be happy. Think about it
> I wont mind
> Hide somewhere with Mike, Kate (Lets call her Kate from now on)
> This is your only chance
> make some other excuse to your parents. Don't worry
> I wont ever be able to trust you again. I'm going to meditate a lot now. I'm going to become very religious (since she hates this)
> 
> She hasn't checked them yet which is weird...


Honestly Mek,
You should have ended this when you found out that they were planning a secret rendezvous. I get it trust me I do. This isn't something that's easy to do but you're literally giving this woman the green signal to blatantly lie to you and play you. 
All I'm going to say is that save yourself further heartache and frustration and just end it. Don't even wait for her to come back. Why the hell should you even wait for her to come back? Why the hell should you even have to support a woman like that in any way? I'm sorry but stop being devdas and get it over with. Do not drag it on like some zee tv serial. 
I wouldn't tell you to get a divorce if she told you even once this whole time that she saw Mike or hung out with him for a bit. If she had done that then I'd be like okay maybe she just needed to have some kind emotional cleanse, some kind of closure so she can move forward with you. 
If I were you, I'd tell her straight up that she doesn't need to bother coming back and don't care about what she does. Who cares if she runs away with Mike or not. What are you going to do? Give them your blessing? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Sorry for all the posts I'm making in such a short period. I wanted to update what just happened before I go to sleep:
> 
> Mek: I know more than you think I know. I only asked for the truth. Tomorrow I am going to a lawyer's office. What you want to say to your parents, start thinking.
> 
> Kate: Plz don't do this Mek
> Please give me one more chance
> Plzzzzzzzzzz
> I will do exactly as you say
> 
> And that's that. Goodnight.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


By the way you don't have to apologize or feel guilty at all. We're here to help you. I think most of us are mad at the situation and what you have to deal with rather than you 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha

Mek, so far you have done all the right things. It sounds like she is not very mature and obviously afraid of anyone (not just you) finding out about her meeting up with Mike.

She doesn't sound mature enough to understand what you were offering her (opportunity to be open and honest) and is in plight/fright mode right now (like a child would be caught with her hand in the cookie jar). 

She probably is sure in her mind that if she admits to anything (she did lie and plan to meet up with him quite deceitfully), her life is over. She needs to calm down and really listen to what you are saying but it doesn't look like she will - not because she wants to be with Mike but because she is now really afraid.

Its sad that you couldn't get to the level of honesty that would have seen this marriage strengthened.


First of all, there is no question that you need to back up whatever you say with action - so be prepared to just let her go and divorce if you have to. Here is what I would advise:



Speak with her (no text messages, emails etc) and tell her to calm down and take a minute to really listen to what you are about to say. Ask her to think very carefully about what she says or does next as you do not wish to harm her or threaten her but simply want her to understand what you are saying. Asking her to "run away with Mike" would have sounded threatening and aggressive for no real reason or benefit to you. Don't say things like that. Ask her to hear you out before saying anything.


Then tell her that you know exactly what she did and have a pretty good idea of why she did it. You really hoped (and thought) that she would be honest with you when you contacted her. At this point and now, her honesty will enable you and her to fix things and become even stronger. Her dishonesty will surely end the marriage. Ask her to take a minute and write down what she did, leave nothing out and also an honest explanation of why she did it. Given that you know what happened, any details left out will be looked as being dishonest the same as any lie i.e. omissions are just as bad as lies. If she wants to tell you after you finish, then fine, but you would still like her to write it down so that she misses nothing. Tell her that it will be kept between just the two of you and nobody else need be involved.


Assure her that this can be worked out if she is honest and then move on to your boundaries going forward. Remind her that if she is dishonest in the previous step, this is irrelevant. Then go through your boundaries with her including no contact with Mike, no lying and sneaking around etc.


This will give her some time to get her thoughts together and give you the truth. She will also understand that you are not trying to threaten her but will take action if she is dishonest. The boundaries part will show her that there is a future in your mind for the two of you.


Now if she doesn't come clean and continues to lie like a silly child, then unfortunately there have to be consequences and you need to proceed with divorce full speed.


Given what you have said so far, there is a 50 50 chance that this will work because she is still in fright mode.


Good luck Mek!


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## eric1

You confronted: good.

You continue to engage her based on her lies: bad

You know what you know. All you need to text her is 'when you have decided to tell me the truth text me. '

Listen, you are currently going through infidelity. It's one of the worse forms of abuse known to man. You're killing yourself thinking 8 steps ahead about actually divorcing or how you will live with this. Your ONLY goal right now is to get out of infidelity and then evaluate your situation based on how chips fall.

And yours still in infidelity. Those 12 second calls could be 'meet me at the market' or similar. Unfortunately I'm just guess, as will you, and that's the worst part about this abuse, the toll that it takes on your fight or flight. So rather than worry about that just aim for getting the truth, then you can start making those decisions. If not, then you'll need to extract yourself from the situation in some measure. And that's what the divorce talk is from other members - a tool to extract the truth. It soon may be a tool that you can use if you'd let or to save the marriage.

Exposure is probably before divorce. It might be time to call her parents if she doesn't come clean.


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## Blondilocks

I'll tell you what the problem is. It's you. You keep treating her like she's five years old rather than the 28 year old she is. she's fragile, she's sensitive, she's acting on instinct (btw, that's known as character in our neck of the woods). 

Just flat out tell the woman (that's WOMAN to you) that you have proof she has met up with boyfriend and this entire fiasco was orchestrated for such meeting. Save the money for the return flight and mail her the divorce docs. She's a proven liar and continues to lie to save her bacon.


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## rzmpf

Sounds more like some first love teenage drama than a(n arranged...wtf) "marriage" between two adults.


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## SunCMars

Woulda, Shouda, Coulda.........

It is your' life, your' choice. You uttered your feelings, your brandished your choice of sword.

Consummatum est. It is finished...... By your words, thoughts and soon, your' actions. 

Now, do the 180. Go silent.

Whatever Fate has in store for you will unfold 'right before your eyes', in the distance, and behind the scenes.

Let it play out. Be a patient man. Not a man who could/would......should be a patient somewhere!

Abolish angst, anxiety, anger. Adopt apathy, aspiration. One tomorrow will be better.

She may Rise from her Ashes. She may win back your love through Mairita and Kisamata.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or not. I sense a hidden desire to let her go. 

You want a new start with a new women. 

You are not very much in love with her "either". 

Am I correct here?


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## Lostinthought61

Mek,

I am so sorry that she si still stone walling you on this, but i suspect that this is self-preservation on her part, she did not expect that you would know any of this, so you is caught like a deer in headlight...so truth comes out like a leaky faucet...my recommendation for what its worth, is to give her some time before speaking to you and tell she as only one chance to save this marriage, it the own-ness on completely on her, and tell that she has to tell you EVERYTHING from the start, and you have ways of discovering any lies she has said. Including but not limited too, a polygraph if need be....If this marriage to you is what she truly wants she must confess everything...you must tell her that you will not tolerate any more deception on her part. and have her write it out. And she must NEVER speak to Mike again...if she can nto agree to this, i ask you, Mek, how can you build a home and family on such a weak foundation...it is not fair to you nor any future children you will have.


----------



## Thor

manfromlamancha said:


> Mek, so far you have done all the right things. It sounds like she is not very mature and obviously afraid of anyone (not just you) finding out about her meeting up with Mike.
> 
> She doesn't sound mature enough to understand what you were offering her (opportunity to be open and honest) and is in plight/fright mode right now (like a child would be caught with her hand in the cookie jar).
> 
> She probably is sure in her mind that if she admits to anything (she did lie and plan to meet up with him quite deceitfully), her life is over. She needs to calm down and really listen to what you are saying but it doesn't look like she will - not because she wants to be with Mike but because she is now really afraid.
> 
> Its sad that you couldn't get to the level of honesty that would have seen this marriage strengthened.
> 
> 
> First of all, there is no question that you need to back up whatever you say with action - so be prepared to just let her go and divorce if you have to. Here is what I would advise:
> 
> 
> 
> Speak with her (no text messages, emails etc) and tell her to calm down and take a minute to really listen to what you are about to say. Ask her to think very carefully about what she says or does next as you do not wish to harm her or threaten her but simply want her to understand what you are saying. Asking her to "run away with Mike" would have sounded threatening and aggressive for no real reason or benefit to you. Don't say things like that. Ask her to hear you out before saying anything.
> 
> 
> Then tell her that you know exactly what she did and have a pretty good idea of why she did it. You really hoped (and thought) that she would be honest with you when you contacted her. At this point and now, her honesty will enable you and her to fix things and become even stronger. Her dishonesty will surely end the marriage. Ask her to take a minute and write down what she did, leave nothing out and also an honest explanation of why she did it. Given that you know what happened, any details left out will be looked as being dishonest the same as any lie i.e. omissions are just as bad as lies. If she wants to tell you after you finish, then fine, but you would still like her to write it down so that she misses nothing. Tell her that it will be kept between just the two of you and nobody else need be involved.
> 
> 
> Assure her that this can be worked out if she is honest and then move on to your boundaries going forward. Remind her that if she is dishonest in the previous step, this is irrelevant. Then go through your boundaries with her including no contact with Mike, no lying and sneaking around etc.
> 
> 
> This will give her some time to get her thoughts together and give you the truth. She will also understand that you are not trying to threaten her but will take action if she is dishonest. The boundaries part will show her that there is a future in your mind for the two of you.
> 
> 
> Now if she doesn't come clean and continues to lie like a silly child, then unfortunately there have to be consequences and you need to proceed with divorce full speed.
> 
> 
> Given what you have said so far, there is a 50 50 chance that this will work because she is still in fright mode.
> 
> 
> Good luck Mek!


This is pretty close to what I did with my XW after discovering some major deceptions plus some very strong circumstantial evidence of a recent affair. It isn't a bad strategy, and I defer to your understanding of MEK's culture. Normally I would be on the standard TAM "Shock and Awe" strategy.

My warning would be to avoid the errors I made. First, I assumed she was being honest after having this discussion with her and she appeared to understand my new boundary was divorce if I discovered any new deceptions. We tend to want to believe our spouse even after they have betrayed us, because that has been our default belief system all along. Instead, our new default belief should be that everything they say is a lie until proven true. The betrayer has the burden of proving they have changed and have now become worthy of our trust. This takes time and it takes numerous experiences of them being honest even when it may be difficult. 

Which puts a bit of a burden on us to get through those difficult issues rather than react poorly when they tell us a difficult truth. This takes some team effort.

Next, the boundary has to be both clear and nuclear. If they do commit another lie or deception, the consequence of divorce must begin immediately. My XW found some gray area, whereby she quickly admitted to a serious deception as I was moments away from discovering it on my own. Since she admitted it to me, she avoided the trigger of _me discovering her lie_. She had committed a new serious deception, and that should have triggered the divorce no matter how I had discovered it. But I had set the imperfect boundary of me discovering a lie/deception.

The correct boundary is thus: Any prior lie, deception, omission, or betrayal which comes to light other than her telling it, is an immediate divorce. Any _new_ lie, deception, omission, or betrayal is an immediate divorce no matter how it is discovered.

Finally, even a small lie or deception is a violation. I discovered a couple of relatively minor lies early in this process and let them slide. They were hurtful but not big compared to what we were dealing with. The correct response is to call out such a lie and trigger the consequences.

Just because the divorce process is started does not mean it can't be stopped. It could happen she corrects her actions and proves it. Letting small or borderline things slide is the wrong response, which is what I did.


----------



## Mek

I think I will do what manfromlamancha suggested. Keeping eric1's point in mind that my only aim right now is to get the truth from her. Thank you all for guiding me through this. I want to give her time to think about the situation and I haven't said anything yet. I don't think I should say anything tonight either. Maybe tomorrow night.

I feel she doesn't think seriously of the situation. She doesn't believe I will divorce her. She has also been messaging my brother and brother-in-law to talk to her. My brother-in-law knows nothing of the situation, my brother knows everything. Right now she has no one to talk to and make sense of the situation, she is on her own. So my brother and I decided that he should reply and point her in the right direction. Someone from Canada also called her and talked to her for 13 minutes. It was not my brother-in-law' number, but maybe he used a different phone. This is what my brother sent her. She doesn't understand English that well, and my brother doesn't speak Punjabi well, so he sent it in English keeping it as simple as possible:

Hi bhabhi ji. Mek has told me the situation and this is very serious. You need to take this seriously. No more lies, no more games, you need to tell him everything. Everything! How you feel, what you want in your relationship if you even truly want it, even if you are scared to tell him little things you need to tell him those things too. You can not be afraid of hurting mek''s feelings if you tell him some things. This is very important for you to know. You need to tell him everything. No more secrets between either one of you. I want this marriage to work but if things keep going like this....... The marriage won't work out. so please think about it, you are not a little kid anymore, you need to make these decision and think like a grown up.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Mek

Wow. She is scared beyond belief. I just spoke with my mom. She called my mom this morning and they spoke. My mom knows the situation as well. But this has took a whole new turn. Everything was pretty clear before but now there are many many more factors to consider.

So after that comment I sent her, she isn't able to think. Her dad said to go take care of her home here and go to Canada. She booked a flight back to Canada for the next day. She told her parents someone from our village told Mek something and he wants to divorce now. She told my mom if I don't pick her up from the airport can you? Now her parents will probably try to find out who did this.

My mom told her not to worry, Mek won't take any extreme action without me knowing. Told her to cancel the ticket. My mom says I probably look bad in her parents eyes now. And that I should show them the proof. She wants me to talk to Kate and tell her to stay in India right now. She was calling and messaging me like mad. Also said her mom had a heart attack and is in the hospital right now.

My mom said there's no way she will tell the complete truth in this condition. My Uncle says she probably learned her lesson and should forgive her meeting Mike. She doesn't know what's right and wrong in our marriage. But tell her what she did is not acceptable. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Mek said:


> Wow. She is scared beyond belief. I just spoke with my mom. She called my mom this morning and they spoke. My mom knows the situation as well. But this has took a whole new turn. Everything was pretty clear before but now there are many many more factors to consider.
> 
> So after that comment I sent her, she isn't able to think. Her dad said to go take care of her home here and go to Canada. She booked a flight back to Canada for the next day. She told her parents someone from our village told Mek something and he wants to divorce now. She told my mom if I don't pick her up from the airport can you? Now her parents will probably try to find out who did this.
> 
> My mom told her not to worry, Mek won't take any extreme action without me knowing. Told her to cancel the ticket. My mom says I probably look bad in her parents eyes now. And that I should show them the proof. She wants me to talk to Kate and tell her to stay in India right now. She was calling and messaging me like mad. Also said her mom had a heart attack and is in the hospital right now.
> 
> My mom said there's no way she will tell the complete truth in this condition. My Uncle says she probably learned her lesson and should forgive her meeting Mike. She doesn't know what's right and wrong in our marriage. But tell her what she did is not acceptable.


You lied to her about where you got your info. That makes things more complicated. This is one reason why lying is only appropriate in very limited situations - this one not included. At this point it may be better to tell her that you are sorry, you didn't want to tell her where you got your info, but you got it on your own. Do not tell her how, just tell her that you lied about someone telling you and you should not have done that. You are trying to get her to tell you the truth, because you know pretty much everything.

Do you want to stay married to your wife? If you do, I recommend her let her come back and that you find a marriage counselor immediately. Do not go right back into the same mode you were in before she left, but deal with this matter and see if it can be resolved through counseling.


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## eric1

Mek said:


> Wow. She is scared beyond belief. I just spoke with my mom. She called my mom this morning and they spoke. My mom knows the situation as well. But this has took a whole new turn. Everything was pretty clear before but now there are many many more factors to consider.
> 
> So after that comment I sent her, she isn't able to think. Her dad said to go take care of her home here and go to Canada. She booked a flight back to Canada for the next day. She told her parents someone from our village told Mek something and he wants to divorce now. She told my mom if I don't pick her up from the airport can you? Now her parents will probably try to find out who did this.
> 
> My mom told her not to worry, Mek won't take any extreme action without me knowing. Told her to cancel the ticket. My mom says I probably look bad in her parents eyes now. And that I should show them the proof. She wants me to talk to Kate and tell her to stay in India right now. She was calling and messaging me like mad. Also said her mom had a heart attack and is in the hospital right now.
> 
> My mom said there's no way she will tell the complete truth in this condition. My Uncle says she probably learned her lesson and should forgive her meeting Mike. She doesn't know what's right and wrong in our marriage. But tell her what she did is not acceptable.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I understand the full dynamics of the situation, and do believe I understand your culture well. 

Your parents and her parents should be free to talk to each other, but you need to make your own decisions. ALL YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT I WANT THE TRUTH!!!! That isn't rude, that isn't taking things to unreasonable levels. If anyone is being unreasonable it's others asking you to compromise what are completely reasonably boundaries to keep family peace.

Man, it sounds like the chat logs are dead anyways and this has all come to a head. Her 13 second call was to arrange a different form of communication or let him know that they were compromised. Just tell your parents and your brother that you had added WhatsApp or whatever on your phone and it logged on as her or something dumb... this isn't a court of law, just say you deleted in disgust after what you read between her and her boyfriend. Tell them that you confronted her and she lied about EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of her meeting her boyfriend. Tell them you have chat logs that you are not willing to share because they're between you and your wife, but that this isn't a game and you refuse to be cheated on. YOU are the victim. YOU should not be sitting here figuring out how she can make up for this, for playing this inane game of phone tag from half a globre away. It's on HER to figure how to to approach you and fix this situation. SHE made this mess and one of the consequences of her action is she's going to have to put herself out there. She isn't some 28 year old baby. She's an adult female who is going to have to figure out if there is a way to fix this. 

Don't talk to anyone else -- she should be the only one contacting you and that should be to deliver you a 100% accurate timeline of her (hopefully just) emotional affair.


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## Cynthia

Also, regarding her parents thinking badly about her, that is misplaced. You are not the reason she is in this frantic state of mind. She is. She lied and deceived you and met Mike behind your back. She's been sneaking around. This is all on her. That's all you have to say. She will admit to that. It is enough to convince any reasonable person that you are not in the wrong here, she is.


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## turnera

You should absolutely call her parents and tell them what really happened. They can't give her good advice if they don't know the truth.


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## Lostinthought61

Mek, your brother is right...she is not a little girl where you have to scold them for being bad and tell them what they did was wrong....she is an adult and must comes to terms with her actions.......progress can only be made whether individually or as a couple if she accepts her actions and addresses them...otherwise where is human growth, how can we become a better version of ourselves if we do not accept our transgressions and address them. Before anything can be said to her parents, she must confess to you first and foremost, she is seeking allies in your brother, in your mother while stonewalling you. if the light of truth does not come out freely, without proof, then you will be casted into darkness of any words that come out of her mouth in the future.


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## Cynthia

turnera said:


> You should absolutely call her parents and tell them what really happened. They can't give her good advice if they don't know the truth.


Except that her mother is in the hospital from a heart attack, I would wholeheartedly agree with this. Considering the drama this is creating, it may still be the right thing to do though. It may help them grapple with the situation and do something constructive about it.

When I recommend you let her just come home, somehow this important fact of her mother being in the hospital escaped me. Her mother just had a heart attack and her marriage is falling apart. Maybe if her parents understand what's really going on they can help her do the right thing and this can be resolved. It would take some stress off everyone, especially her ill mother.

Why not just tell her that you read all of her texts and not tell her how you did that. I'm still for not giving her more info than she needs, but with how things have gotten out of hand, it may be time to just tell her that you've read her texts. Don't make up another lie about how they got on your phone and you don't how or anything like that. Just tell her without giving additional information of how.


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## TX-SC

turnera said:


> You should absolutely call her parents and tell them what really happened. They can't give her good advice if they don't know the truth.


I agree with this 100 percent. You need to talk to her parents and tell them what you know. This will get back to your wife, but the time for holding back your information has passed. She needs to be truthful now and stop withholding information. She has damaged your relationship badly with her lies. Only through truth can she regain your trust. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Mek

Hey guys, I called her after my previous post because she was breaking down on what's app and calling me furiously. We talked for about 1hr 15 min.
Some potentially good news after all this mess. I explained everything to her because she needed guidance. She already knows I'm serious about a possible divorce. I explained to her in detial why I need to hear the truth from her. I told her that is the only way our marriage can work. I told her I'm not mad. Everything is fixable BUT you have to tell me every single detial. I want her to write it down at her own pace so she doesn't leave anything out. If I detect a lie it will be over. She understands and says please give her a few days as she doesn't want to leave anything out. I believe she is finally ready to tell me everything. She requested not to show the letter to my mom or brother, which I agree with as well. She also told me that I HAVE to believe her, and swears to God that she didn't ever have sex with him. I told her I believe her. She really wants to come to Canada tomorrow because of pressure from her parents, but she still has to get her transcripts so I told her to wait.

I told her not to come to Canada yet. Tell her parents that I am fine now and it was just a misunderstanding. If she tells me the truth I don't care if her parents don't know about her lies.

She seems to feel better now. Although she was crying throughout the whole conversation.




Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## eric1

No offense, but crying is a human emotion that is used to evoke sympathy so that others can come to their rescue.

Putting it another way - you were the one harmed and if anyone should be crying it's you.


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## Cynthia

Oh course she's crying. She's a wreck. Her mother in the hospital. Her husband is threatening divorce. Her clandestine meeting did not come to pass.


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## TX-SC

You must surely understand that even if they did not have sex, the exchange of "I love you" and meeting in secret is infidelity. She needs to figure out why Mike is so important to her that she would potentially ruin your marriage just to see him. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## KaraBoo0723

.


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## MattMatt

Is her mother really ill and in hospital?

I have a Sikh friend and his mother, whenever one of her children does something she doesn't approve of, she "falls ill."

Obviously not saying it's the case here but worth getting the situation verified.


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## Thor

She met him in person more than once apparently. They've traded a lot of messages over a week or so being there, including saying she loves him etc. She arranged this trip, as did he, to travel an enormous distance just to be together.

This does not sound like people who are just saying a final good-bye for closure.

Stop telling her that you believe her. Don't tell her how much you know or how you found out. Obviously she needs to stay in India for a short while due to her mother's health. When she comes back, you are dealing with recovering from infidelity. She is the one who has to do the hard work. She is the one who has to prove she has changed. She is the one who has to prove she is worthy of your trust going forward. Don't try to do it for her. Don't be a Nice Guy.


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## SunCMars

CynthiaDe said:


> Oh course she's crying. She's a wreck. Her mother in the hospital. Her husband is threatening divorce. Her clandestine meeting did not come to pass.


Exactly.

Her world is in flames. She has no fire extinguisher.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Her mother in the hospital and her "home" situation in peril. Her home is your home. Meks' is in peril likewise.

I see the pattern. Conflict in the home. Keep tabs on your plumbing, electrical, etc. Mek, your own parents are also at some risk, likely your father. Adverse 4th house issues.

Beware open enemies. Business partner issues. Legal problems. Fourth to Seventh house square. Mek, PM me if you think this is "at all" interesting!


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## Nucking Futs

SunCMars said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Her world is in flames. She has no fire extinguisher.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Her mother in the hospital and her "home" situation in peril. Her home is your home. Meks' is in peril likewise.
> 
> I see the pattern. Conflict in the home. Keep tabs on your plumbing, electrical, etc. Mek, your own parents are also at some risk, likely your father. Adverse 4th house issues.
> 
> Beware open enemies. Business partner issues. Legal problems. Fourth to Seventh house square. Mek, PM me if you think this is "at all" interesting!


This is like one of those codes they'd give out over the radio in WW2 for the French resistance. If you don't have the code book it appears to be just a bunch of random unrelated words, but if you can decode it it will all make sense. :smthumbup:

Too bad I don't have a code book.


----------



## becareful2

Mek said:


> Hey guys, I called her after my previous post because she was breaking down on what's app and calling me furiously. We talked for about 1hr 15 min.
> Some potentially good news after all this mess. *I explained everything to her because she needed guidance.* She already knows I'm serious about a possible divorce. I explained to her in detial why I need to hear the truth from her. I told her that is the only way our marriage can work. I told her I'm not mad. Everything is fixable BUT you have to tell me every single detial. I want her to write it down at her own pace so she doesn't leave anything out. If I detect a lie it will be over. She understands and says please give her a few days as she doesn't want to leave anything out. I believe she is finally ready to tell me everything. She requested not to show the letter to my mom or brother, which I agree with as well. *She also told me that I HAVE to believe her, and swears to God that she didn't ever have sex with him. I told her I believe her.* She really wants to come to Canada tomorrow because of pressure from her parents, but she still has to get her transcripts so I told her to wait.
> 
> I told her not to come to Canada yet. Tell her parents that I am fine now and it was just a misunderstanding. If she tells me the truth I don't care if her parents don't know about her lies.
> 
> She seems to feel better now. Although she was crying throughout the whole conversation.


Let me guess, you married a twelve year old child who still doesn't know right from wrong, so you _had to_ guide her. Then when she tells you that she did not have sex with him, you said you believed her. Why would you believe a serial liar? Sorry, but even twelve year old children know that lying and cheating are bad.


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## Cynthia

Mek said:


> She understands and says please give her a few days as she doesn't want to leave anything out. I believe she is finally ready to tell me everything. She requested not to show the letter to my mom or brother, which I agree with as well. She also told me that I HAVE to believe her, and swears to God that she didn't ever have sex with him. I told her I believe her. She really wants to come to Canada tomorrow because of pressure from her parents, but she still has to get her transcripts so I told her to wait.


#1 Reconsider allowing her to keep this a secret from her parents. They already know there is a serious problem. If she doesn't tell them the truth, then she will lie. They need the truth of what she did. If anything else comes up in the marriage, they need to know the foundation. If you then have to explain to them what happened, maybe years later, they are unlikely to believe you. She needs to tell her parents what really happened and not rug sweep. If she doesn't own her behavior and accept the consequences, she is not taking responsibility for herself and you are enabling her to behave badly. Doing that now has wide implications for your relationship as a whole.

#2 You do not have to believe her. She can tell you anything she likes, but she has already established herself to be a sneaky liar.

#3 It is imperative that she write an appropriate good-bye, have a good life, don't ever contact me again letter to Mike where she renounces all love, affection, and promises made to him. It is possible that they made promises to each other when they thought they would be married. This does not go away unless it is renounced and closed.


----------



## Blondilocks

becareful2 said:


> Let me guess, you married a twelve year old child who still doesn't know right from wrong, so you _had to_ guide her. Then when she tells you that she did not have sex with him, you said you believed her. Why would you believe a serial liar? Sorry, but *even twelve year old children know that lying and cheating are bad*.


Not these twelve year-olds.


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## Cynthia

Even if she didn't understand that what she was doing was wrong (why would she hide it if she thought it was okay), by setting healthy boundaries and consequences for her actions, she will be less likely to do something like the is in future. If she is allowed to hide it from her family, so will not feel the sting of her betrayal. It is a betrayal no doubt. If she doesn't feel the sting, she will believe she got away with it and she will be right.

Now is the time for you to step up, @Mek, and be the strong man who will not tolerate lies, deceit, abuse, manipulation, or any of that from your wife. Either she is a loyal, respectful wife or she's not your wife. If she gets that into her head right now, it will serve you and your future family well. It will establish a foundation of what is and is not acceptable in your marriage and she will know she has to stay on the straight and narrow or lose you.

If she thinks she succeeded in her manipulation, there will be no end to it and you'll be back here in five years complaining about how bad things have gotten and how she rules you.


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## aine

turnera said:


> You should absolutely call her parents and tell them what really happened. They can't give her good advice if they don't know the truth.


I agree with this. Punjabi culture is different from western culture, but your or her parents will not stand for lies and lies about another man esp, the shame!
Your best bet is to let her parents know exactly what is happening. I know punjabi parents will interfere more than western parents but you stand firm and do not be coaxed, coerced, etc into a result which doesn't take care of you. She needs her head to spin and know that this is a serious matter like your brother said.


You are still treating her like a child who needs your guidance! If she is old enough to get married, old enough to sneak around, lie and cheat she is NOT a child. You cannot believe a word she says, she has shown herself to be manipulative and unfaithful, and if you cannot see that, I believe you will be back in this place in the future again. Remember when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Her parents need to know your parents need to know, the knowing will ensure accountability. To hell with the shame (I know that is the culture) but rug sweeping will not solve this problem, covering for her will not enable her to grow up and deal with the consequences of HER own actions. You are being far too soft and it will backfire. Stop engaging, you have said your piece, tell her parents the truth, tell your parents and still insist on getting the truth from her. 
i​


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## MattMatt

Nucking Futs said:


> This is like one of those codes they'd give out over the radio in WW2 for the French resistance. If you don't have the code book it appears to be just a bunch of random unrelated words, but if you can decode it it will all make sense. :smthumbup:
> 
> Too bad I don't have a code book.



It seems to be getting into some fairly deep astrology.


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## sokillme

Mek said:


> I'm thinking about giving her a day to think about it. Before confronting her I told her I'm gonna stay with her, I wont get mad at her, if she tells me the truth. But still she is leaving facts out and lying about some. I didn't really prepare for this but I should've known it was going to happen.
> 
> She was begging me to talk to her. But I ignored her calls. Now she has stopped calling and messaging. I don't know how she's doing. Maybe I should've answered?
> 
> My plan of action was:
> 
> 1. break the news, get her to tell the truth. Tell her I'm not angry but you have to tell me everything honestly.
> Once she does that:
> 
> 2. Try convincing her to marry mike
> 
> Once she says no I only want to be with you:
> 
> 3. Tell her what kind of marriage I will accept. without deceit and lies
> 
> 4 inform her she should reject feelings for mike. But she can talk to me about it.
> 
> 
> I'm still stuck on #1 with her. Damn I didn't want it to go this way. I wanted her to feel safe and that she can trust me, but now she's just afraid that she might lose me. She's probably only thinking what do I say to get him back? And that's not what I want her to think.
> 
> Confused on what to do, any ideas?


Liars do what they normally do lie. I don't know why you thought she would do different.


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## sokillme

Mek said:


> But isn't lying expected in this situation?


The problem is that you are in this situation. She is giving a very cold hard look at her character. Up until now you have been making very excuse for her. When someone shows you who she is, repeatedly and over a long period of time, believe them. She has repeatedly and continually lied to you. When something she knows would be a betrayal to you and lied to you about it over and over. You can blame it on couture, love, arranged marriage or whatever. The woman is a proven liar don't just assume it's this one time. Character is character, do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone like this? Proceed at your own risk.


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## sokillme

Mek said:


> I told her to choose her words wisely because it could mean the end of us. But she still didn't listen. I told her I know everything. She obviously kept asking how I know but i said don't worry about that I'm not gonna tell you. Just think that God told me (she's sometimes superstitious so she might actually believe this if I want her to)
> 
> Why did I think she would agree to tell the truth so easily. I feel that is very ignorant.
> 
> She's texting and calling again saying:
> 
> My name
> What happened to you
> Pick up the phone at least
> I know you love me a lot
> Plzzzz
> Talk to me
> I don't know what someone has told you
> 
> So she's probably with Mike and he probably remeasured her that there's no way I could find out that they hugged (i'm pretty sure they did it privately) She was also pretty adamant about not meeting him.


Just ask her who Mike is. Tell her parents you know she is seeing a guy name Mike. That will end it.


----------



## sokillme

Mek said:


> She was calling and messaging me like mad. Also said her mom had a heart attack and is in the hospital right now.


Probably more lies, that is the thing about lairs, you can't ever really believe them.


----------



## sokillme

CynthiaDe said:


> Oh course she's crying. She's a wreck. Her mother in the hospital. Her husband is threatening divorce. Her clandestine meeting did not come to pass.


She is crying because she selfishly wrecked her life.


----------



## sokillme

Mek said:


> Hey guys, I called her after my previous post because she was breaking down on what's app and calling me furiously. We talked for about 1hr 15 min.
> Some potentially good news after all this mess. I explained everything to her because she needed guidance. She already knows I'm serious about a possible divorce. I explained to her in detial why I need to hear the truth from her. I told her that is the only way our marriage can work. I told her I'm not mad. Everything is fixable BUT you have to tell me every single detial. I want her to write it down at her own pace so she doesn't leave anything out. If I detect a lie it will be over. She understands and says please give her a few days as she doesn't want to leave anything out. I believe she is finally ready to tell me everything. She requested not to show the letter to my mom or brother, which I agree with as well. She also told me that I HAVE to believe her, and swears to God that she didn't ever have sex with him. I told her I believe her. She really wants to come to Canada tomorrow because of pressure from her parents, but she still has to get her transcripts so I told her to wait.
> 
> I told her not to come to Canada yet. Tell her parents that I am fine now and it was just a misunderstanding. If she tells me the truth I don't care if her parents don't know about her lies.
> 
> She seems to feel better now. Although she was crying throughout the whole conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Good now she will write you a long letter tell you how the never had sex, and it was all because she was sorry for him. She really always wanted to be with you but was scared. Then you can live happily ever after, all fixed. Make sure that hole you bury your head is in very deep my friend. 

Want to bet that the letter and all that isn't going to fix this for you? Wanna bet that when you calm down and start to really think about it you won't have doubts. Think you will have those doubts when she goes to India again 20 years from now? Will you wonder if she is seeing the guy? I bet you will, I mean what do you have to trust her, her word? The word of a liar?

Stay with a proven liar at your own risk, I don't care what culture you are. She has proven she really had no problems lying right to your face, and to everyone. That shows complete disrespect and severe lack of character. That isn't going to get fixed by a 5 page letter of excuses.

You will learn this the hard way. Sounds like you at least don't have children yet, your kids will learn the hard way too.

Sadly you are treating her like a child but she is playing you like your the child. You are too innocent here, YOU ARE the child in this situation. You don't understand that this woman is a liar and a manipulator. She doesn't work like you or me, her intentions are not in your best interest, she has repeatedly shown you this and she takes advantage of the fact that you think of her as pure and unsophisticated. You are the one who is unsophisticated, everything you naively thought would happen didn't. She didn't tell you when you found out, she stuck to her lies and covered her @ss, and probably set up another way to communicate with this dude. I hope to God you didn't give away how you knew, that was your one advantage. She totally acted how most of us who know cheaters expected to act yet you continue to willfully do the opposite of what everyone is telling you. 

I will say it now, this letter and crying thing is just a big smokescreen. She is still saving her @ss. You let that be her consequences and you set up a power dynamic going forward where she will have no respect for you and do whatever the h3ll she wants. At least tell her parents, then you will have some allies on your side and some other eyes on her. 

What we all are telling you is, she is a liar, and she is going to do what liars always do. Tell you something, anything to get you to believe her so she can get what she wants. It's really that simple. Again you are going to learn the hard way. You are the type of innocent trusting novice that a person like her salivates for. It's SO much easier to get away with stuff when you only have to write a few pages, cry some tears and all is well. 

It's your life dude, but you are basically basing the next maybe 70 years of your life on her acting sad. After she basically spit in your face over and over. And in your culture to do this takes tremendous risk, we are not talking about western culture where you just get divorced, to her it means ruin and she didn't even blink and eye (this should scare the living 5hit out of you!) It isn't just her that deals with the fallout it's her parents, her husband, your parents. And just like that you are going to trust your life to this person once again. I get it she was really crying hard? Better wake up man, she is not who you think, she has completely played you, she is so far ahead of you she has to delay for you to catch up. You are not the General in the game right now, she is and she is manipulating you all over the board.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mek, in your case I think you now know that I do understand your culture very well.

What has happened was more or less exactly what I predicted and advised about.

Somebody said (jokingly) that you married a 12 year old with no idea of right from wrong - I am going to say that in some ways this is more or less what happened. She is from a Punjabi town (maybe not village but not Bombay, Lahore or Amritsar) and in many ways is quite simple in her thinking.

I do not agree with many of the others in this thread because they cannot comprehend things like a few days to close down, the idea of having someone that you wanted to marry replaced by an arranged husband and the damage she would do to her own parents if she did something like what they are thinking.

She did exactly what I thought in reaction to your talk with her and now you have done exactly what you should have (right down to agreeing to keep it just between the two of you). I do hope her mother gets better soon as all this must also be weighing down on her pretty bad.

She does need to come home soon though as the two of you can help each other get through this and start building a stronger relationship as soon as possible.


As an aside, how are your communications together ? Do you speak good Punjabi and are the two of you really able to make yourselves truly understood by each other ? When you communicate with her in writing, how is it done ? I get that her English will not be good so how do you understand each other ? This may also be a source of problems (remember that this problem would not exist with Mike - both are desi if you know what I mean).


Take care Mek and know that you are on the right track here - keep at it !


----------



## Mek

Update: Her mom is doing better now. She might be released from the hospital today. After I confronted her, and she went to KP....she was actually taking her mom to the hospital (She wasn't with Mike as previously suspected). Her mom had the heart attack when Kate told them Mek might leave me. 

When she spoke with my mom this evening, she said to please forgive her this time. She learned her lesson and wont ever do it again. My mom is going soft on her, and does not want me to do the divorce thing if she doesn't tell the complete truth. She says Kate might still hide some information from me, since Kate feels it might do more harm than good by telling it to me. Says divorce will destroy her family, not just her. I told her I honestly believe she will tell me the truth. I reassured Kate when I called her that I will forgive everything she did as long as she tells me everything truthfully. But also reminded her how serious this is. I said please don't risk telling a lie or leaving out details. Kate agreed to tell me everything. She needs maybe two days. I can tell from her voice that she is very remorseful. She says she has no reason to live by doing what she did. I told her she can think about that later but now her mom needs her. 

I called my Uncle....and he has an unpopular viewpoint as well. He think's I'm being too harsh with my divorce ultimatum. He thinks I should forgive her for lying this time, but if she does it again THEN bring the topic of divorce. 

I disagree with both of them and I think I deserve hearing the truth from my wife. 




Thor said:


> She met him in person more than once apparently. They've traded a lot of messages over a week or so being there, including saying she loves him etc. She arranged this trip, as did he, to travel an enormous distance just to be together.
> 
> This does not sound like people who are just saying a final good-bye for closure.
> 
> Stop telling her that you believe her. Don't tell her how much you know or how you found out. Obviously she needs to stay in India for a short while due to her mother's health. When she comes back, you are dealing with recovering from infidelity. She is the one who has to do the hard work. She is the one who has to prove she has changed. She is the one who has to prove she is worthy of your trust going forward. Don't try to do it for her. Don't be a Nice Guy.


I told her I believed her because she could not be lying about it at the moment she said it. If I somehow knew that she had sex with him and she said she didn't, I would've ended it on the spot (However if I knew she had sex with him after our marriage, I would've ended it anyway). but yes you are right, I shouldn't be saying "I believe you" about anything at this point. I understand that I will be recovering from infidelity.



becareful2 said:


> Let me guess, you married a twelve year old child who still doesn't know right from wrong, so you _had to_ guide her. Then when she tells you that she did not have sex with him, you said you believed her. Why would you believe a serial liar? Sorry, but even twelve year old children know that lying and cheating are bad.


Look, I have my mom, brother, uncle/aunt, and you guys to help me get my thoughts straight. It took me several days to understand what is happening. Who could she have possibly spoke to about the situation she has gotten herself into? Isn't it normal to feel scared and confused? I just pointed her in the right direction....that's it, and she agreed to tell me the truth.



CynthiaDe said:


> #1 Reconsider allowing her to keep this a secret from her parents. They already know there is a serious problem. If she doesn't tell them the truth, then she will lie. They need the truth of what she did. If anything else comes up in the marriage, they need to know the foundation. If you then have to explain to them what happened, maybe years later, they are unlikely to believe you. She needs to tell her parents what really happened and not rug sweep. If she doesn't own her behavior and accept the consequences, she is not taking responsibility for herself and you are enabling her to behave badly. Doing that now has wide implications for your relationship as a whole.
> 
> #2 You do not have to believe her. She can tell you anything she likes, but she has already established herself to be a sneaky liar.
> 
> #3 It is imperative that she write an appropriate good-bye, have a good life, don't ever contact me again letter to Mike where she renounces all love, affection, and promises made to him. It is possible that they made promises to each other when they thought they would be married. This does not go away unless it is renounced and closed.


I think you are right about telling her parents. She has told me she wants to tell the truth to her parents, but is afraid that her dad might literally kill her and then himself if he finds out. Don't know how likely this really is. I am thinking about waiting for her to come to Canada first, and then inform the parents what happened. The goodbye letter seems like a good idea too.


----------



## Mek

manfromlamancha said:


> Mek, in your case I think you now know that I do understand your culture very well.
> 
> What has happened was more or less exactly what I predicted and advised about.
> 
> Somebody said (jokingly) that you married a 12 year old with no idea of right from wrong - I am going to say that in some ways this is more or less what happened. She is from a Punjabi town (maybe not village but not Bombay, Lahore or Amritsar) and in many ways is quite simple in her thinking.
> 
> I do not agree with many of the others in this thread because they cannot comprehend things like a few days to close down, the idea of having someone that you wanted to marry replaced by an arranged husband and the damage she would do to her own parents if she did something like what they are thinking.
> 
> She did exactly what I thought in reaction to your talk with her and now you have done exactly what you should have (right down to agreeing to keep it just between the two of you). I do hope her mother gets better soon as all this must also be weighing down on her pretty bad.
> 
> She does need to come home soon though as the two of you can help each other get through this and start building a stronger relationship as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> As an aside, how are your communications together ? Do you speak good Punjabi and are the two of you really able to make yourselves truly understood by each other ? When you communicate with her in writing, how is it done ? I get that her English will not be good so how do you understand each other ? This may also be a source of problems (remember that this problem would not exist with Mike - both are desi if you know what I mean).
> 
> 
> Take care Mek and know that you are on the right track here - keep at it !


Thank you manfromlamancha, always looking forward to your post. I speak Punjabi fairly well. I'm more fluent at it than my brother. We always talk in Punjabi. She doesn't mind at all that I can't speak pure desi Punjabi. As soon she has the transcripts I'll book the ticket. 

I don't understand the highlighted paragraph.


----------



## aine

Mek said:


> Thank you manfromlamancha, always looking forward to your post. I speak Punjabi fairly well. I'm more fluent at it than my brother. We always talk in Punjabi. She doesn't mind at all that I can't speak pure desi Punjabi. As soon she has the transcripts I'll book the ticket.
> 
> I don't understand the highlighted paragraph.


He's referring to the concept of arranged marriage. How she is expected to close off her emotional attachment to this guy from before and enter into an arranged marriage as expected of her to a stranger on the other side of the world.

Nevertheless, when you enter into marriage (regardless if it is arranged or not) you have made a commitment and considering the culture she is from, she is pretty brazen to still pursue the other guy. 
I beg to differ on the poor little demure woman-child from a rural village in the Punjab explanation. She knew exactly what she was doing. We are not living in the early 1900s anymore.


----------



## Mek

sokillme said:


> Good now she will write you a long letter tell you how the never had sex, and it was all because she was sorry for him. She really always wanted to be with you but was scared. Then you can live happily ever after, all fixed. Make sure that hole you bury your head is in very deep my friend.
> 
> Want to bet that the letter and all that isn't going to fix this for you? Wanna bet that when you calm down and start to really think about it you won't have doubts. Think you will have those doubts when she goes to India again 20 years from now? Will you wonder if she is seeing the guy? I bet you will, I mean what do you have to trust her, her word? The word of a liar?
> 
> (trimmed)


Your words sound so true its scary. But I will try to create an environment where she can place her trust in me. Right now she thinks someone told me about her and Mike. If I have my doubts, I'll bug her phone.


----------



## Spicy

I asked you early on in this thread if she was a virgin when you married or not. You declined to answer that saying it didn't matter to you. That was not why I asked.

I think it matters much more than you may think. You paint her and view her as very naive in spite of the fact she is nearly 30 years old. 

If you didn't take her virginity, I am betting good ole Mike did. Guess what former lovers who were forced to separate do...when they find their way back into each other's arms? Yeah, a hug may have been involved in the foreplay...If they were intimate with each other in the past, it is very unrealistic to think they would stop at just a hug when their bodies already know and want the rest. If you took her virginity then I would have a much easier time believing that she didn't have sex with him while she was there. If he in fact took it, she may view him as her true husband who she may have shared private vows with. Who knows. Doesn't matter I guess.

You have made up your mind. That's your perogative. You have even provided lots of reasoning as to why you will forgive her even when she doesn't tell you the truth in her written statement. My suggestion? Just say, "It doesn't matter, I love her and I am forgiving her no matter what. I am willing to have a wife that is a deceitful woman." That would be more nobel than all this. But stop with the "She's so fragile and innocent." No, but she is a genius. She got you to finance her affair, her vacation to see her lover, and to think she was just trying to say goodbye, even though you read _*her own words telling another man she loves him. *_

Good luck. You are going to need it.


----------



## eric1

Mek

You are doing well. Your decisive behavior has gotten you to a point where your marriage could be saved. Had you taken your uncles advice all that would have happened is you'd technically be married but you would lose her heart to someone else. That is no way to live, for either of you.


----------



## Malaise

Mek

Don't let on what you know before she writes her statement. Especially that you've read her texts of love for Mike.

I'd be surprised if she confessed to saying she loved him.

She'll flesh out what she thinks you know, fill in some blanks, but not everything.

Tickle truth.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mek said:


> Thank you manfromlamancha, always looking forward to your post. I speak Punjabi fairly well. I'm more fluent at it than my brother. We always talk in Punjabi. She doesn't mind at all that I can't speak pure desi Punjabi. As soon she has the transcripts I'll book the ticket.
> 
> I don't understand the highlighted paragraph.


What I was referring to Aine kind of described. I am not saying demure Punjabi girl from a village in the 1900's at all. In fact as I said at the start Punjabis are very passionate people as you know.

If she fell in love with Mike, this is not a switch you can switch off. Yes she should have been honest with you about meeting up with Mike and this you are going to have to work on - her ability to be honest with you ALWAYS.

But perhaps others cannot visualise her going back, giving someone she loved and did not have any real closure from yet not sleeping with him. Her love for you will grow and at some stage Mike will be a distant memory. Everyone has memories of past loves. Its what she does going forward that is important. Give her the ability to do that if she doesn't have it now.

I am sure she is happy that you speak Punjabi to any good level at all. All I was making sure of way that she understands you clearly when you emphasise any point you make with her.

Good luck Mek.


----------



## Jasel

Have her take a polygraph.


----------



## Evinrude58

manfromlamancha said:


> What I was referring to Aine kind of described. I am not saying demure Punjabi girl from a village in the 1900's at all. In fact as I said at the start Punjabis are very passionate people as you know.
> 
> If she fell in love with Mike, this is not a switch you can switch off. Yes she should have been honest with you about meeting up with Mike and this you are going to have to work on - her ability to be honest with you ALWAYS.
> 
> But perhaps others cannot visualise her going back, giving someone she loved and did not have any real closure from yet not sleeping with him. Her love for you will grow and at some stage Mike will be a distant memory. Everyone has memories of past loves. Its what she does going forward that is important. Give her the ability to do that if she doesn't have it now.
> 
> I am sure she is happy that you speak Punjabi to any good level at all. All I was making sure of way that she understands you clearly when you emphasise any point you make with her.
> 
> Good luck Mek.


Work on her ability to be honest with him always?
I would love to hear how one goes about such an undertaking.
His first step needs to be working on her telling him a speck of truth for the first time. 

I think ever trusting this woman again is pure foolhardiness.


----------



## As'laDain

Mek said:


> Your words sound so true its scary. But I will try to create an environment where she can place her trust in me. Right now she thinks someone told me about her and Mike. If I have my doubts, I'll bug her phone.


i dont know how it feels to go into an arranged marriage. but, i do know how it feels to go into a marriage where you barely know your spouse at all. because that was what i did. i went on five or six dates with my wife before i married her. we have been together for over 8 years and i love her. i love her because i chose to love her and i love her because she eventually chose to love me. 

she did not love me at first. she despised me. even though she married me, she despised me. to be fair to her, i was despicable back then. i changed, and as a result, she changed. 

i can tell you that you can have a great and amazing marriage with your wife. even despite her deception. 

that said, you may not have the stomach to accept what is before you and act accordingly. you will have to have a strong stomach. you will have to set aside what society has taught you is good and right in a marriage. because the marriage you have is not good and right. you are a man. all you can do is influence your wife. anything that you do in order to make her someone she loves is good. 

do not be afraid of her feelings of devastation. offer her a way to make it right, as you seem to have done already. let her make it right. inform her that you know about her activities that can only possibly come from her and nobody else. let her know that you really do know that truth. let there be no doubt in her mind that you know the truth of her actions, and then, if you want an amazing marriage, let her know you love her anyway. let her know that you will do whatever it takes to make her feel loved. let her know that you will hold her accountable, and yet you will love her anyway. 

let her face her greatest fears and let her know you love her anyways. do not spare her emotions. let her feel the shame of her actions while at the same time give her a way to make things right with you. 


in this way, you can let her know that you truly do love her, but that the terms of her life are ultimately up to her. in this way, empower her and hold her accountable, so that she can become someone that she loves. 



you have an opportunity that many pass up. you have the opportunity to love someone because it is who you choose to be rather than who it is your spouse chooses to be. set your terms and divorce her if you must. but if you can forgive her and hold her accountable... well, if you can do that, i dont need to explain it to you. 

my wife has done a lot of things in the past, when we struggled, that would cause people to divorce her if they were in my shoes. infidelity, lies, emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial infidelity, etc. but you know what? i have held her accountable in each instance in some way. and in each instance, she has found a way, as a result of my actions, to cast off those old behaviors. 

i am proud of my wife, despite her past mistakes. 

are you going to be proud of yours, or are you going to let her do as she will until you decide that it is not worth it?

you have more power in this than you realize.


----------



## Thor

Spicy said:


> I asked you early on in this thread if she was a virgin when you married or not. You declined to answer that saying it didn't matter to you. That was not why I asked.
> 
> I think it matters much more than you may think. You paint her and view her as very naive in spite of the fact she is nearly 30 years old.
> 
> If you didn't take her virginity, I am betting good ole Mike did. Guess what former lovers who were forced to separate do...when they find their way back into each other's arms? Yeah, a hug may have been involved in the foreplay...If they were intimate with each other in the past, it is very unrealistic to think they would stop at just a hug when their bodies already know and want the rest.


Excellent points, Spicy.

Given the culture, if she and Mike did have sex they may have given it the name "hug" to be socially acceptable if overheard. It also would be a cute little secret they could have, talking about their "hugs" with nobody else the wiser about it.


----------



## Thor

Beware "Truth Bias"

https://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/detecting-deception/catching-lovers-lying.html




> people have a very difficult time spotting deception with a complete stranger. All the research shows that people are no better than tossing a coin when trying to detect deception by someone they do not know (see nonverbal cues).
> 
> A reasonable person might think that it would be easier to tell if a spouse or lover is lying. After all, people are more intimate with their romantic partners. People know their husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, and how they typically behave.
> 
> *It should be easy to catch a spouse or lover in a lie by watching their body language. This makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately, the opposite is more likely to be true.*



Honesty & the Truth Bias
Men are just as vulnerable as women, so this quote from the above link applies as much to men as women.



> Much like the horror that the neighbors usually express when they learn that the man next door has just been nabbed for being a serial murderer, it's very difficult for well-socialized truth tellers to even contemplate that they could be mixed up with a big-time liar. And that's the whole point about socialization and how it gives rise to deceptive relationships. Ask me who's vulnerable to Romantic Deception, and high on my list will be the woman who was raised right. Show me a woman who believes in honesty and I'll show you a woman who finds it hard to even imagine that she could get mixed up with a big-time liar. Show me a woman who places a premium on honesty in a relationship, and I'll show you a vulnerable target.


----------



## TRy

aine said:


> I beg to differ on the poor little demure woman-child from a rural village in the Punjab explanation. She knew exactly what she was doing. We are not living in the early 1900s anymore.


 We may not be "living in the early 1900s anymore", but she is. Not saying this to insult, as there is a lot to respect in their culture, but many of their customs and practices are similar to the ones that we had in the 1900s.


----------



## RandomDude

What's with all this "trust me" "you should trust me", pffft!

Trust is earned, not given, at least with me, and I struggle to understand how people can just give away trust. Give away a chance to earn that trust sure, but trust itself? It should be more sacred than that.


----------



## TRy

Mek said:


> I explained to her in detial why I need to hear the truth from her. I told her that is the only way our marriage can work. I told her I'm not mad. Everything is fixable BUT you have to tell me every single detial. I want her to write it down at her own pace so she doesn't leave anything out. If I detect a lie it will be over. She understands and says please give her a few days as she doesn't want to leave anything out. I believe she is finally ready to tell me everything. She requested not to show the letter to my mom or brother, which I agree with as well. She also told me that I HAVE to believe her, and swears to God that she didn't ever have sex with him. I told her I believe her.


 Mek, you told her that "Everything is fixable BUT you have to tell me every single detial", yet that statement is not true as everything is not fixable. What if she writes down that she met him, is that fixable? What if she writes down that they kissed, again is that fixable? What if they did more than that, can that really be fixed? Since she knows that no matter what you are telling her now, not everything is fixable, she will only tell you as much as she can without admitting to anything that would in her opinion be unfix-able. In other words, although she will tell you more than she has told you before, she will not tell you the really bad stuff. She knows that if you already knew the really bad stuff, you would already be divorcing and would not be giving her this chance to come clean. If she were going to tell you everything she would not need a few days to write it down. The few days is for her to edit it correctly with great thought. Lies are always harder to draft and remember than the truth.


----------



## Evinrude58

The whole idea of a person that has been weaving a charlotte's web of verified lies, suddenly saying no they're going to "tell the whole truth" is preposterous.

Anyone reading this thread can see that mek simply wants her to spin him a yarn that he can live with and sounds plausible enough for him to somewhat stomach as the "truth". 

He might as well tell her how he knows what he knows, so she can write her windy down in such a way he can rubber stamp as acceptable "truth", and they can move forward with the rug-sweep he wants.

Because let's face it, she has said multiple times that she loves mike, and proved it by crossing oceans and jeopardizing her marriage and her family's honor.

Does anything else she has done rally matter if OP wants a wife that loves HIM?
Or should he just ask her if she loves him or mike, and just "believe" her when she says "I love you,mek!"

I know you're hurting OP, but you have seen where her heart lies.
So you really want to spend your life with a woman who doesn't love you and has proven herself untrustworthy?
Do you think mike will be the last person she will feel this way anoint? Attractive women get a lot of attention from men.

This will be my last post on your thread. I don't think anything I write will be able to convince you that the path you're taking is very likely going to ruin your life.
I'm telling you honestly that you can find someone that will feel about YOU, the way your wife feels about Mike.
That's my advice. Set your wife free and find one that loves YOU.


----------



## Mek

Update: She's headed to Canada (Phone tracking). Last available location was at Amritsar airport. Did not tell me or anyone else from Canada. Probably pressured from parents. From the what's app conversation with her sister, They are not going to pick up the phone when we call this evening. Her sister told her to delete this what's app convo from her phone (So they suspect some phone spying i guess). She just called me now using a different sim card. She is still not telling me she's coming to Canada for some reason. She says she's at home. I know Kate and her family is worried that I may end the marriage. She will not be allowed to enter Canada etc. She told her sister in the what's app chat to take care of her certificates (so they probably plan on getting the transcripts without her being there...somehow). However she is saying just wait 12/13 hours and I will tell you everything. I'm ok with that. Let her come here. I'll still expect the truth from her. She said she already told her family what she did, and they were all crying. They did not tell their mom though.



Spicy said:


> I asked you early on in this thread if she was a virgin when you married or not. You declined to answer that saying it didn't matter to you. That was not why I asked.
> 
> I think it matters much more than you may think. You paint her and view her as very naive in spite of the fact she is nearly 30 years old.
> 
> If you didn't take her virginity, I am betting good ole Mike did. Guess what former lovers who were forced to separate do...when they find their way back into each other's arms? Yeah, a hug may have been involved in the foreplay...If they were intimate with each other in the past, it is very unrealistic to think they would stop at just a hug when their bodies already know and want the rest. If you took her virginity then I would have a much easier time believing that she didn't have sex with him while she was there. If he in fact took it, she may view him as her true husband who she may have shared private vows with. Who knows. Doesn't matter I guess.
> 
> You have made up your mind. That's your perogative. You have even provided lots of reasoning as to why you will forgive her even when she doesn't tell you the truth in her written statement. My suggestion? Just say, "It doesn't matter, I love her and I am forgiving her no matter what. I am willing to have a wife that is a deceitful woman." That would be more nobel than all this. But stop with the "She's so fragile and innocent." No, but she is a genius. She got you to finance her affair, her vacation to see her lover, and to think she was just trying to say goodbye, even though you read _*her own words telling another man she loves him. *_
> 
> Good luck. You are going to need it.


Spicy, I said on the 3rd page that she said she was a virgin before marriage. I honestly do believe that she was. First time we got physical, we had a very hard time completing the task....if you know what I mean. She was in extreme pain. There was blood for a number of sessions after that as well. No comment on the last paragraph, I hope I have the will to divorce her if she still lies. But there will be pressure from my family, and I don't know what will happen to her or her family. I have to factor these things in as well.




Malaise said:


> Mek
> 
> Don't let on what you know before she writes her statement. Especially that you've read her texts of love for Mike.
> 
> I'd be surprised if she confessed to saying she loved him.
> 
> She'll flesh out what she thinks you know, fill in some blanks, but not everything.
> 
> Tickle truth.


I'm being very careful not to tell her anything.



manfromlamancha said:


> (trimmed)
> 
> I am sure she is happy that you speak Punjabi to any good level at all. All I was making sure of way that she understands you clearly when you emphasise any point you make with her.
> 
> Good luck Mek.


Yes she understands me clearly. I am able to communicate anything effectively in Punjabi.


----------



## Mek

As'laDain said:


> i dont know how it feels to go into an arranged marriage. but, i do know how it feels to go into a marriage where you barely know your spouse at all. because that was what i did. i went on five or six dates with my wife before i married her. we have been together for over 8 years and i love her. i love her because i chose to love her and i love her because she eventually chose to love me.
> 
> she did not love me at first. she despised me. even though she married me, she despised me. to be fair to her, i was despicable back then. i changed, and as a result, she changed.
> 
> i can tell you that you can have a great and amazing marriage with your wife. even despite her deception.
> 
> that said, you may not have the stomach to accept what is before you and act accordingly. you will have to have a strong stomach. you will have to set aside what society has taught you is good and right in a marriage. because the marriage you have is not good and right. you are a man. all you can do is influence your wife. anything that you do in order to make her someone she loves is good.
> 
> do not be afraid of her feelings of devastation. offer her a way to make it right, as you seem to have done already. let her make it right. inform her that you know about her activities that can only possibly come from her and nobody else. let her know that you really do know that truth. let there be no doubt in her mind that you know the truth of her actions, and then, if you want an amazing marriage, let her know you love her anyway. let her know that you will do whatever it takes to make her feel loved. let her know that you will hold her accountable, and yet you will love her anyway.
> 
> let her face her greatest fears and let her know you love her anyways. do not spare her emotions. let her feel the shame of her actions while at the same time give her a way to make things right with you.
> 
> 
> in this way, you can let her know that you truly do love her, but that the terms of her life are ultimately up to her. in this way, empower her and hold her accountable, so that she can become someone that she loves.
> 
> 
> 
> you have an opportunity that many pass up. you have the opportunity to love someone because it is who you choose to be rather than who it is your spouse chooses to be. set your terms and divorce her if you must. but if you can forgive her and hold her accountable... well, if you can do that, i dont need to explain it to you.
> 
> my wife has done a lot of things in the past, when we struggled, that would cause people to divorce her if they were in my shoes. infidelity, lies, emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial infidelity, etc. but you know what? i have held her accountable in each instance in some way. and in each instance, she has found a way, as a result of my actions, to cast off those old behaviors.
> 
> i am proud of my wife, despite her past mistakes.
> 
> are you going to be proud of yours, or are you going to let her do as she will until you decide that it is not worth it?
> 
> you have more power in this than you realize.


Thank you. I will have to re-read this, process, and understand everything.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Mek said:


> Update: She's headed to Canada (Phone tracking). Last available location was at Amritsar airport. Did not tell me or anyone else from Canada. Probably pressured from parents. From the what's app conversation with her sister, They are not going to pick up the phone when we call this evening. Her sister told her to delete this what's app convo from her phone (So they suspect some phone spying i guess). She just called me now using a different sim card. She is still not telling me she's coming to Canada for some reason. She says she's at home. I know Kate and her family is worried that I may end the marriage. She will not be allowed to enter Canada etc. *She told her sister in the what's app chat to take care of her certificates (so they probably plan on getting the transcripts without her being there...somehow).* However she is saying just wait 12/13 hours and I will tell you everything. I'm ok with that. Let her come here. I'll still expect the truth from her. She said she already told her family what she did, and they were all crying. They did not tell their mom though.


So if her sister is able to get her transcripts for her, why did she actually travel to India?


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## Spicy

I apologize that I missed that in your reply on page 3. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Andy1001

Nucking Futs said:


> So if her sister is able to get her transcripts for her, why did she actually travel to India?


To meet Mike of course.She knew she couldn't get the transcripts until Feb 5 at the earliest but she is in India almost three weeks.This girl is playing Mek like an expert angler plays a salmon and until he realises this he is in dreamland.He paid for her to Travel thousands of miles to meet her true love and now is waiting with open arms for her to return and tell him it was just a bad dream.If she is pregnant then god help him.
See you again in a couple of years Mek,we will do this all over again.


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## eric1

You asked her to not come back to Canada and she is still not putting your wishes first, even after betraying you.

You asked for a timeline. You did not get one.

This is a binary issue, there are no shades of grey at this point.

There is one person playing games. It is not you.


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## TX-SC

eric1 said:


> You asked her to not come back to Canada and she is still not putting your wishes first, even after betraying you.
> 
> You asked for a timeline. You did not get one.
> 
> This is a binary issue, there are no shades of grey at this point.
> 
> There is one person playing games. It is not you.


Agreed. She is walking all over you. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks

Good gravy! How does she expect to get out of that lie? Don't be home when she is expected to arrive. And, don't pick her up at the airport. She's supposed to be in India, see?

She can't even tell the truth about which country she is in.


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## Thor

Her mom had a _heart attack_, literally, when hearing the news? Very doubtful.


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## Blondilocks

Thor said:


> Her mom had a _heart attack_, literally, when hearing the news? Very doubtful.


Are you forgetting that her people are _very passionate_? So _very passionate_ they are unable to tell the truth.


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## TRy

Mek said:


> Update: She's headed to Canada (Phone tracking). Last available location was at Amritsar airport. Did not tell me or anyone else from Canada. Probably pressured from parents.


 Once she told her family what she had done, they told her to tell you in person where she would have better control of the situation.



Mek said:


> From the what's app conversation with her sister, They are not going to pick up the phone when we call this evening. Her sister told her to delete this what's app convo from her phone (So they suspect some phone spying i guess).


 Not picking up the phone so that you will not know what is happening. Deleting text message conversations so that you will not see them. Deception seems to be a family skill set. Deception, strike 1.



Mek said:


> She is still not telling me she's coming to Canada for some reason. She says she's at home.


 You ask for honesty going forward if she want to save the marriage, and she lies to you about what country she is in? Honesty from her is not going to happen. Deception, strike 2.



Mek said:


> She told her sister in the what's app chat to take care of her certificates (so they probably plan on getting the transcripts without her being there...somehow).


 Her sister always had the ability to get the transcripts for her, but she needed a reason to go back without you when the other man was in town. Now you know. Deception, strike 3.



Mek said:


> However she is saying just wait 12/13 hours and I will tell you everything.


 Although she promised to give it to you in writing, she wants to tell you in person instead. Lying is always easier face to face since the liar can adjust the story based on how you are reacting at the time to what they are saying. Deception, strike 4. I know that you are from a foreign country, but over here you are out when it gets to strike 3.


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## Nucking Futs

TRy said:


> Once she told her family what she had done, they told her to tell you in person where she would have better control of the situation.
> 
> Not picking up the phone so that you will not know what is happening. Deleting text message conversations so that you will not see them. Deception seems to be a family skill set. Deception, strike 1.
> 
> You ask for honesty going forward if she want to save the marriage, and she lies to you about what country she is in? Honesty from her is not going to happen. Deception, strike 2.
> 
> Her sister always had the ability to get the transcripts for her, but she needed a reason to go back without you when the other man was in town. Now you know. Deception, strike 3.
> 
> Although she promised to give it to you in writing, she wants to tell you in person instead. Lying is always easier face to face since the liar can adjust the story based on how you are reacting at the time to what they are saying. Deception, strike 4. I know that you are from a foreign country, but over here you are out when it gets to strike 3.


Mek, either she's a complete idiot or she thinks you are.


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## Mek

She called me again a few hours later to tell me that she is going to make one more mistake and to please forgive her for the mistake. She can't tell me what it is right now but I will find out tomorrow.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Tatsuhiko

I can't imagine what this last mistake is. Normally I'd think she's planning to meet Mike for "closure", but you said she's already en route back to Canada. At least her phone is on it's way, right? Someone who's willing to make "one more mistake" doesn't sound very remorseful. Our thoughts are with you, Mek. Hoping for a good outcome.


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## Mek

Tatsuhiko said:


> I can't imagine what this last mistake is. Normally I'd think she's planning to meet Mike for "closure", but you said she's already en route back to Canada. At least her phone is on it's way, right? Someone who's willing to make "one more mistake" doesn't sound very remorseful. Our thoughts are with you, Mek. Hoping for a good outcome.


It's coming to Canada without telling me.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Mek

I feel I am more lenient on deception than people from the western culture. I grew up in a household where deception was pretty common. My sister is very deceptive towards her husband. I sometimes call her out on it but she doesn't agree or care. She feels telling the truth will cause unnecessary problems. In her head she's doing the right thing. She usually tells my mom and my mom agrees with her. 

I don't know if this is a cultural trait or what. I don't agree with it, but I noticed women are pretty deceptive.


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## aine

It could well be a cultural trait. What they don't know wont hurt them kind of thing. I know all about it and that is what leads to problems in a marriage esp if one partner is all for transparency.


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I feel I am more lenient on deception than people from the western culture. I grew up in a household where deception was pretty common. My sister is very deceptive towards her husband. I sometimes call her out on it but she doesn't agree or care. She feels telling the truth will cause unnecessary problems. In her head she's doing the right thing. She usually tells my mom and my mom agrees with her.
> 
> I don't know if this is a cultural trait or what. I don't agree with it, but I noticed women are pretty deceptive.


It is a cultural thing. I too have been "taught" and "advised" that I should beat around the bush or say things to my husband indirectly, but I don't and I get in trouble for it. I never understood why I couldn't be direct with my husband and clearly talk about any issues/problems I'm having. If I don't like something he does, I tell him I'm not rude about it. I hate how in our culture we're taught to be deceptive especially to the one person we should be completely honest with. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

Mek said:


> I feel I am more lenient on deception than people from the western culture. I grew up in a household where deception was pretty common. My sister is very deceptive towards her husband. I sometimes call her out on it but she doesn't agree or care. She feels telling the truth will cause unnecessary problems. In her head she's doing the right thing. She usually tells my mom and my mom agrees with her.
> 
> I don't know if this is a cultural trait or what. I don't agree with it, but I noticed women are pretty deceptive.


"Lenient " means being a doormat.


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## Mek

I just want to take this opportunity and tell everyone how much I appreciate all of you giving me advice. You don't know me at all, I'm a stranger on the interweb but you all still care so much and hope for a positive outcome. Thank you all, you are doing people around the world a very noble service.


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## Lostinthought61

Mek said:


> I just want to take this opportunity and tell everyone how much I appreciate all of you giving me advice. You don't know me at all, I'm a stranger on the interweb but you all still care so much and hope for a positive outcome. Thank you all, you are doing people around the world a very noble service.


Mek,

Pain, sadness, hardship, stress and heartache, all these and other human emotions lies across borders, time, languages, religion and cultures, sometimes we forget how more a like we all are, than we are not. It is only arrogance and ignorance that keeps us from truly understanding one another and what is even sadder is that those who possess the strongest ignorance are making our laws to separate us further from one another. 

I hope the next 48 - 72 hours brings a sense of peace for you Mek.


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## sokillme

Mek said:


> She called me again a few hours later to tell me that she is going to make one more mistake and to please forgive her for the mistake. She can't tell me what it is right now but I will find out tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


The one making the mistake is you I am afraid. Like I told you smoke and whistles. Whatever it takes to get you to move on so she can continue with her dysfunction. You are going to learn the hard way. But I have read enough of these stories to no longer believe that people like you really want to have it any different. I think for the most part you are exactly where you want to be.


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## manfromlamancha

Mek, I agree that her "next mistake" is coming back to Canada without telling you in case you talk her out of it.

She probably sees telling you face to face is the better option than communicating/discussing in writing or telephone across the distance. I would understand this since this is a very serious life-changing topic. You should still ask her to write down a time line of what happened with as much detail as possible.

If she cannot enter Canada, how does she hope to come home without you knowing ? Call you from the airport ? What if she cannot get hold of you ? Sit in immigration till they find you ?

I guess the transcripts thing is now going to take longer than if she were doing it herself (I have witnessed this) - e.g. "take this form saying who you are and get it authorised by a notary …" will have to be sent to her, and then sent back followed by "now take this form explaining why you need it and have this notarised too …" again across the distance back and forth along with possibly "take this form authorising you to act on your sister's behalf and have this notarised …" - you get the picture. Very bureaucratic despite these forms being downloaded from the internet etc. Might have been improved now (I witnessed this some time ago).

Wait and see what she has to say … I am hoping you get the truth from her with as much verification as possible.

I do understand that divorcing has a bigger impact than most people would understand so don't rush.

Take care.


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## mary35

Mek, I think you are on the right track so far. You are getting some different view points, but seem to be sifting through them well, and going with your gut feeling in choosing how to handle this situation. Keep doing that, especially be careful when the advice is given through westernized eyes. Her world and our world is not the same - and her culture and our culture are vastly different and this situation needs to be handled keeping her culture in mind at all times. 

It is hard for many who have been raised in the western world and culture to understand how much control and influence families - especially parents in other cultures have over their children's lives, even control over their adult children's life - and how that control is even greater with female children in some countries. Its hard to understand what it feels like to have very little control over your life and to be totally dependent on others who make many of the important life decisions for you - whether you like it or not or whether you want them to or not. This kind of control is frowned upon and is not accepted at all in our western culture. Yet is a very real accepted fact of life in many other cultures. Was it this way for your wife? Was she raised traditionally with her parents making most of her decisions for her? 

While I agree that lying and sneaking around to see an old boyfriend is not good for any marriage, and what your wife did is extremely troubling, I am glad to see that you understand that this is not necessarily an inherent flaw in her character. But it is definitely a flaw that has to be dealt with. I too think this situation is fixable - and your marriage - while at this moment is in a troubled state - is not nor should not be thought of as doomed beyond repair. It will take a lot of work from both you and your wife, it will take a lot of patience, and understanding, and forgiveness - especially from you right now. It will take your wife making a conscious choice to choose this marriage because it is what she wants - not what others have chosen for her. And it may take some time for her to be able to completely let go of her attachment to Mike and her dreams of a life with him. 

She may be almost 30, but if she was raised in traditional ways of her culture - she could very much be a child on many important levels. When a person is raised under strict control and lives a life full of restrictions and lack of choices and control - they don't have the opportunities to grow and develop fully, stunting their maturity growth. 

I don't know how well you knew each other before you married - but it sounds like you were pretty much strangers when you became engaged. If that is the case - your wife probably does not feel completely safe with you yet. You sound like one of the good ones - and I think she probably has been figuring that out - bit by bit, but I doubt that in the short time you have been married that she has established a close enough bond that she feels like she can be totally honest with you and open herself up completely with you. Just as others have said - trust has to be earned - although they were referring to the fact that she has just shown you she is not trustworthy so will now have to earn it back. However, the same is true with you - trust has to be earned. And while you may not have done anything to show her you are not trustworthy - you are still in the process of showing her you ARE trustworthy simply because of the circumstances of your arranged marriage. 

I know its hard to separate out emotions and to try to think about this calmly and rationally, but if you can do that - and if you can try to put yourself in her shoes and see things from her eyes and have empathy for her, I think you can go a long way in helping her understand that she really is safe with you - that she can trust you - and that you are someone who is very deserving of her trust and worthy of her love. Yes she hurt you . But she has been hurting for a long time. She fell in love with someone before she even knew you. She would have married him - but was denied that choice and that life. Clearly she is not dealing with her feelings well and has made some really bad choices - resulting in this huge mess. Somehow she needs to deal with these feelings in a more productive way. This is going to take some time and probably some professional help.

In my opinion - marriage counseling and IC for your wife - right now is imperative. I don't think either of you should make any decisions yet, because you both have some things to figure out first. Unless or until your wife comes to terms with her feelings about Mike and chooses on her own to willingly cut all ties with him, your marriage will continue to be threatened. This choice needs to be her own choice and made with her free will. If she is forced, threatened, or guilted into it - I don't think she will be able to give him up completely emotionally and then she will not be able to commit to you 100%. I don't think you deserve or want any less! Do you? 

The question you have to decide is - are you willing to risk more pain, and give her some time, getting help from a professional, understanding that at the end of that time she may not choose you? I am saying all this - assuming that you would want her to choose you with her own free will. 

If you are willing to give her time and a choice and try the counseling route - my suggestion would be to bring her home and make her feel safe with you instead of imposing any harsh consequences and ultimatums immediately. Find a good marriage counselor who is knowledgeable about your culture and has experience dealing with arranged marriages. Let the counselor facilitate the discussions that needs to be had, so they can be done in a safe and calm environment. Wait to have the honesty and timeline discussion with the counselor present. Let the counselor give the no contact and full transparency talks. That way you will not have to be the husband who is controlling her life even more. The counselor can explain these actions as something necessary and needed in order to build any good marriage.


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## Mek

Wow mary35. Where were you before? I was starting to get worried why I don't feel the same way as most other people here. Thank you for your insight. I agree that we should go into marriage counseling. My brother suggested that as well. What is IC?

I think I'm still going to get her to write the timeline to see where she stands. 
@manfromlamancha She can enter Canada on her own anytime she wants. She has a PR card. Yes I'm pretty sure she will call me from the airport. I will be at work so we will see. One of our family members should be available.

Yes getting the transcripts might take a lot longer. However I will look into getting them online as some people have suggested. I honestly did not know that was possible. 

A lot of valuable information in your post mary35, I will have to read again tomorrow.

Thank you, heading off to bed.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Jasel

Mek said:


> What is IC?


Individual counseling. Like a therapist for just herself.


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## areenhaque26

@Mek I know no one has asked you this, but how are you doing? The last few days must have been super stressful for you. All I'm going to tell you is do what feels right to you. I know many of us are telling you to divorce her and many are telling you to salvage your marriage. At the end of the day it's your decision and it should be something you won't regret in the long run. 

I do agree with some of the people on here that maybe she comes from an environment where she wasn't given the opportunity to have full freedom and make her own choice and her marriage to you could have been decided for her. I beg to differ because if that was the case the first time she's even be introduced to you would be on the wedding day which clearly was not the case. I'm thinking maybe she was emotionally blackmailed into it. 

Also you two have been together for 2 years now and you've proven to her from day one that she can trust you completely and confide in you. Like @mary35 said you're one of the good ones and being from the same culture I couldn't have agreed more. 

The truth is that as girls we're taught that if we tell our husbands about past relationships then he'll start to suspect us incessantly and think we have loose character and it'll ruin our marriage. If you're willing to work this out with her then you have to literally convince her that's not the case. More than trust, she needs to know that she can come to you with anything and not fear being judged or that it'll have some kind of negative impact on your marriage. 

I would say you too should get an ic . Only because you too need to talk to someone who won't be biased in their opinion and will just listen to you. In one way or another we start to blame ourselves when our s/o does something drastic or we're the victim of infidelity. You need to learn to forgive yourself as well. If she needs to learn to trust you completely and you her, then you also need to learn to not only forgive but to forget this incident completely. 

I know I have been advocating for divorce for a while because the was I see it, it's hard to trust someone who can lie compulsive and yes not telling the truth is a form of lie but in your case as well as hers I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe there is hope. 

Just remember one thing- don't make any decision in an emotional state of mind. Listen to what she has to say and tell her everything and I mean everything (if you're expecting her to come clean then you should too) you didn't do anything wrong and if she expects you to forgive her then she too should have no problem forgiving you for spying on her. Tell her exactly how this made you feel without her feeling guilty. Take your time and once you've gotten everything out in the open then decide what you want to do. 

Best of luck 


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks

"Wow mary35. Where were you before? *I was starting to get worried why I don't feel the same way as most other people here."*

Then why did you start your thread on a western forum? You could have just as easily started a thread on sikhnet.com and received responses from people who are just like you. People who are familiar with the ins and outs of arranged marriages and are familiar with and accepting of deception and lies.


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## Mek

Blondilocks said:


> "Wow mary35. Where were you before? *I was starting to get worried why I don't feel the same way as most other people here."*
> 
> Then why did you start your thread on a western forum? You could have just as easily started a thread on sikhnet.com and received responses from people who are just like you. People who are familiar with the ins and outs of arranged marriages and are familiar with and accepting of deception and lies.


True. It is because I have been lurking TAM from well before my marriage to get a better idea of what to expect. I agreed with the advice you all gave. I had thought to myself if I ever came across issues I would post here.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Mek

I don't want anyone to feel that they gave me incorrect advice. I still learned a lot on what marriages SHOULD be. In some ways our culture has some catching up to do.

I need to know. Ultimatum or no ultimatum. I want the letter from her, but not sure if there should be an ultimatum

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

My opinion: 

She loves another man-- divorce her, or:

If sex is truly a deal breaker for you-- I don't think it is---
Demand a polygraph or divorce.

I think the letter is useless. She's lied to you nonstop. Why do you even care what she writes or says? It's absolutely useless info because it's in no way reliable.

2 questions for polygraph:

Do you love me as a wife should?
Did you have sex with mike while in India in last month?

Have you ever had sex with mike?

Get your parking lot confession and go from there.


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## SunCMars

Mek said:


> I just want to take this opportunity and tell everyone how much I appreciate all of you giving me advice. You don't know me at all, I'm a stranger on the interweb but you all still care so much and *hope for a positive outcome.* Thank you all, you are doing people around the world a very noble service.


I do hope for a positive outcome.

I do hope she has a really positive excuse for her behavior, subterfuge and her lying.

I do hope that she is a not a great tap dancer and I hope you can determine what is meaningful and what is dancing around the truth.

Once she plants those warm juicy lips on yours, squeezes her hot body against yours, I do hope that you do not fold like a pocket knife.

She may be worth forgiving. Or she may be worth forsaking and giving her the Punjabi Juti bootie out the door.


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## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I don't want anyone to feel that they gave me incorrect advice. I still learned a lot on what marriages SHOULD be. In some ways our culture has some catching up to do.
> 
> I need to know. Ultimatum or no ultimatum. I want the letter from her, but not sure if there should be an ultimatum
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Don't focus too much on the ultimatum for now our for a while. What you need is closure and if that letter helps then so be it. What's important is that you never have to ask yourself "why" or "what did I do wrong" because not having the answer is very torturous. Marriage is a compromise but it's also built on mutual trust and respect. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

mary35 said:


> Mek, I think you are on the right track so far. You are getting some different view points, but seem to be sifting through them well, and going with your gut feeling in choosing how to handle this situation. Keep doing that, especially be careful when the advice is given through westernized eyes. Her world and our world is not the same - and her culture and our culture are vastly different and this situation needs to be handled keeping her culture in mind at all times.


To me, this almost makes it worse, precisely because of what she is risking. It's not just personally, no it will blow up both extended families and their status in their community. The fact that she was so cavalier is very troubling.

However even I think that it may not be as important in this one. I say that because it seems like with arranged marriages the love is not the starting point of the marriage. This situation is not like she fell out of love with @Mek, and went to someone else. Maybe the love that seems to grow with arranged marriages hasn't happened yet. Maybe it never will, I think some people in that situation are fine with it. 

However, you need to get to the bottom of her lying, and why she lied. The definite question would be, does she love the other guy? And do you want a marriage without love? I suspect that in an Eastern marriage, romantic love is not really as important as in a western marriage. I believe arranged marriages look at love with a more practical view. More familiarity family like, less Disney, maybe there is something to be said for that. 

Again, there is the practical aspect of trusting your life to some who could lie and manipulate you to such an extent. Remember if you weren't cautious enough to be checking up on her you would have no idea wthis was happeing. There is great risk because of that and that is what needs to be earnestly weighed.


----------



## Cynthia

Mek said:


> I feel I am more lenient on deception than people from the western culture. I grew up in a household where deception was pretty common. My sister is very deceptive towards her husband. I sometimes call her out on it but she doesn't agree or care. She feels telling the truth will cause unnecessary problems. In her head she's doing the right thing. She usually tells my mom and my mom agrees with her.
> 
> I don't know if this is a cultural trait or what. I don't agree with it, but I noticed women are pretty deceptive.


This is interesting. I don't know if this is a cultural trait or a family trait. In my family, women are not deceptive. We encourage each other to tell the truth and to be transparent even when it's hard. I have taught all of my children that lies will only make matters worse and that there are very few times when it is okay to lie. An example would be when people hid escaped slaves and helped them to safety. Only when someone is in danger and the deception is to counter someone who means to do harm from completing their harmful plan.

From what you’ve said, it appears that she has been taught to lie and this is common and normal in your culture. Thankfully you are not willing to settle for a lying, deceitful wife and are setting a firm boundary on that. If you don’t stick to this, she will manipulate you. It is clear that she has been already been manipulating you, but you didn’t realize it until now. Hopefully your eyes are more open to how she operates – how she was taught to operate by the culture system that you both grew up with.

If your marriage is to work, she needs to let go of what she was taught about how to operate in marriage and to start from scratch learning how a healthy marriage works where husband and wife have each other’s backs, are transparent, and work as a team rather than undermining each other through control and manipulation. If she can’t see how destructive that is, you won’t have anything to build from and it will only get worse when you have children.

Don't be surprised if she tells you she is pregnant. Or that she thinks she might be pregnant. I have a feeling that might be her next tactic.


----------



## Evinrude58

I think she may come back pregnant. The only tactic being to tell mek it's his.
Would she be this bad?

Well, she did cross an ocean to meet her old beau, in person, in a different city if possible.....,,
All while trying to get pregnant by her husband.....
Under the guise of transcript retrieval which we now know could've been done by her sister....
Gone a month?
Planned ahead with old beau....
Deleted texts.....
Won't give a timeline (because her own folks would shred it with holes)......

Yeah, she'd do that.

I have thought of a positive thing or two to say about this.

She gives mek plenty of sex, doesn't sound like she's hard to live with, and mek has good reason to keep an eye on her from now on, and good reason to deny her travel without his presence.
Technically, this could be a fair deal for mek if he is able to handle living with knowing her love for another was valued above her own husband and family.

I can see a postnuptial agreement and relative happiness in the making as a real possibility.


----------



## Cynthia

@Mek, I realize that unless you find she had sex with Mike while she was gone that you will not divorce her no matter what she does as far as the truth goes. Based on this, I will support you and try to be helpful regarding how to make things better and to build a healthier relationship where you have firm boundaries and learn not to be manipulated by your wife. I could be wrong, but I get the idea that she expects you to control her and the way she deals with that is by manipulating you. Is that how it works in your culture? It makes sense, but it's not much fun when two people cannot completely trust each other and work together as a unit.

I would be surprised if she had sex with Mike. I seriously doubt that happened. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've read here, that seems very unlikely. None of their conversations seem even close to sexual. It's all adolescent romance.

After learning of the balance of control and manipulation in your culture, this does make some sense, but it's not healthy and leads to things like what just happened. Hopefully her eyes will be opened and she will grow from this. She needs to realize that you do not want to control her. You expect her to have self control and to be an equal, adult in your relationship. If she doesn't recognize that, she will always try to manipulate you and you will never be able to trust her.


----------



## KaraBoo0723

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thor

Don't get her pregnant!

Why not? Because you are far too early in the process of recovering your marriage to make babies. You may yet discover something months or even a year from now which will cause you to divorce her.

Hysterical Bonding is when a couple in crisis has tons of sex. Some kind of evolutionary thing where the brain goes crazy so as to create bonding chemicals in the brain. Don't fall for this! Use effective birth control for the entire next year.

Be especially cautious if she pressures you to get her pregnant.


----------



## mary35

Mek said:


> I don't want anyone to feel that they gave me incorrect advice. I still learned a lot on what marriages SHOULD be. In some ways our culture has some catching up to do.
> 
> I need to know. Ultimatum or no ultimatum. I want the letter from her, but not sure if there should be an ultimatum
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Ultimatums - definitely not.

Clearly set out your boundaries - yes (but I would work with a counselor in clarifying and clearly stating your boundaries, unless you are totally clear on the difference between an ultimatum and boundaries). 

https://www.lynneforrest.com/cleari.../setting-boundaries-or-delivering-ultimatums/


----------



## Mek

Hello all, 

So she's here with me now. Where to start. She has told me everything. Even stuff that I did not know. I pretended I knew everything already and her words are having no effect on me. 
She admitted every single thing...except her use of "My jaan". So this is what happened. I pick her up and she wants me to park the car somewhere. She starts crying as I'm driving. By the time I park she's wailing. Immediately she tells me she hugged him for 5 minutes and that they kissed on the lips. It wasn't a deep french kiss but just a tap for about a second. She kissed my hand to show me how it was. They met at a coffee shop for about 30 minutes. She started crying when they met because she missed him. He hugged her, and when they were about to leave he gave the peck on the lips. 

This next part is what really hurt. She told Mike she had to go to Chandigarh to get her transcripts. She will be going with her brother. Will need to stay overnight because they had to go to multiple places. He tells her that don't worry I'll take you. She says we'll see. She tells me if she had gone with him she might have done something she regretted. god damnit. She also said in her mind she knew she shouldn't go and tried to come up with an excuse to tell him. She insisted she did not have any other physical relationship with Mike besides the hug and kiss. I really believe her. There was no other time she met with Mike, and they couldn't have had sex that one time they did meet. When I asked her if there's a chance of her being pregnant she made that look "how can you think this"? She insisted that I do a pregnancy test on her. 

She also admitted to saying I love you and I miss you to him on whats app. She said yes she planned the trip with Mike on what's app before going there. She went there for the transcripts but also to meet Mike. I told her we'll work through this together. I told her I'd forgive he if she told me the complete truth, and she did. I would only end it if they had sex, and they didn't. Thank you guys for telling me to confront ASAP.

I told her we will need to go to marriage counselling and possibly IC. She said Ok. She told her family that there's been a misunderstanding with Mek and that she has to go there to make it right. So her family does not know what she did. She is begging us to not tell her family. She says the news will be unbearable for her parents. They won't be able to live with the shame. Her father was already crying so much when my mom called India today. My mom agrees that we probably shouldn't tell their parents. 

I am going to get her to record everything she did in detail. She prefers to say it rather than write it down. There are still some details I would like cleared up. Oh man I missed her so much, it feels so good to have her back.


----------



## aine

Mek, I am glad there is progress, just worried for you beacause:

1. you are forgiving her so quickly
2. She would most definitely have slept with him if the opportunity arose
3. you are hiding this from her family, covering for here. If her family knows, then she will be more accountable in future
4. you are showing you are a sucker and when another man comes along that gives her more attention etc, there is a big possibility this will happen again - her character shows it

How you move forward from here, will decide your future, if there are no consequences then you will reap what you have sown.

All the best


----------



## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So she's here with me now. Where to start. She has told me everything. Even stuff that I did not know. I pretended I knew everything already and her words are having no effect on me.
> She admitted every single thing...except her use of "My jaan". So this is what happened. I pick her up and she wants me to park the car somewhere. She starts crying as I'm driving. By the time I park she's wailing. Immediately she tells me she hugged him for 5 minutes and that they kissed on the lips. It wasn't a deep french kiss but just a tap for about a second. She kissed my hand to show me how it was. They met at a coffee shop for about 30 minutes. She started crying when they met because she missed him. He hugged her, and when they were about to leave he gave the peck on the lips.
> 
> This next part is what really hurt. She told Mike she had to go to Chandigarh to get her transcripts. She will be going with her brother. Will need to stay overnight because they had to go to multiple places. He tells her that don't worry I'll take you. She says we'll see. She tells me if she had gone with him she might have done something she regretted. god damnit. She also said in her mind she knew she shouldn't go and tried to come up with an excuse to tell him. She insisted she did not have any other physical relationship with Mike besides the hug and kiss. I really believe her. There was no other time she met with Mike, and they couldn't have had sex that one time they did meet. When I asked her if there's a chance of her being pregnant she made that look "how can you think this"? She insisted that I do a pregnancy test on her.
> 
> She also admitted to saying I love you and I miss you to him on whats app. She said yes she planned the trip with Mike on what's app before going there. She went there for the transcripts but also to meet Mike. I told her we'll work through this together. I told her I'd forgive he if she told me the complete truth, and she did. I would only end it if they had sex, and they didn't. Thank you guys for telling me to confront ASAP.
> 
> I told her we will need to go to marriage counselling and possibly IC. She said Ok. She told her family that there's been a misunderstanding with Mek and that she has to go there to make it right. So her family does not know what she did. She is begging us to not tell her family. She says the news will be unbearable for her parents. They won't be able to live with the shame. Her father was already crying so much when my mom called India today. My mom agrees that we probably shouldn't tell their parents.
> 
> I am going to get her to record everything she did in detail. She prefers to say it rather than write it down. There are still some details I would like cleared up. Oh man I missed her so much, it feels so good to have her back.


As long as you have the determination to work this out and are genuinely happy with your decision, then we're glad to have been of some help  

Now for her she needs to consciously cut off every connection she had with Mike if she truly wants it work with you. It'll take her time but this where you will have to work a bit hard so one day she wakes up and says "Mike who?" 

Wishing you both the best of luck 

Areen


----------



## areenhaque26

areenhaque26 said:


> As long as you have the determination to work this out and are genuinely happy with your decision, then we're glad to have been of some help
> 
> Now for her she needs to consciously cut off every connection she had with Mike if she truly wants it work with you. It'll take her time but this where you will have to work a bit hard so one day she wakes up and says "Mike who?"
> 
> Wishing you both the best of luck
> 
> Areen


The only advice I would give you is hold off on the sex because neither of you are in the emotional state of mind to have that kind of connection. Until you have started some trust in each other then having sex would be meaningless and disrespectful to each other and yourselves.

Areen


----------



## becareful2

Mek said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So she's here with me now. Where to start. She has told me everything. Even stuff that I did not know. I pretended I knew everything already and her words are having no effect on me.
> She admitted every single thing...*except her use of "My jaan".* So this is what happened. I pick her up and she wants me to park the car somewhere. She starts crying as I'm driving. By the time I park she's wailing. Immediately she tells me she hugged him for 5 minutes and that they kissed on the lips. It wasn't a deep french kiss but just a tap for about a second. She kissed my hand to show me how it was. They met at a coffee shop for about 30 minutes. She started crying when they met because she missed him. He hugged her, and when they were about to leave he gave the peck on the lips.
> 
> This next part is what really hurt. She told Mike she had to go to Chandigarh to get her transcripts. She will be going with her brother. Will need to stay overnight because they had to go to multiple places. He tells her that don't worry I'll take you. She says we'll see. She tells me if she had gone with him she might have done something she regretted. god damnit. She also said in her mind she knew she shouldn't go and tried to come up with an excuse to tell him. *She insisted she did not have any other physical relationship with Mike besides the hug and kiss. I really believe her. There was no other time she met with Mike, and they couldn't have had sex that one time they did meet. When I asked her if there's a chance of her being pregnant she made that look "how can you think this"? She insisted that I do a pregnancy test on her. *
> 
> She also admitted to saying I love you and I miss you to him on whats app. She said yes she planned the trip with Mike on what's app before going there. She went there for the transcripts but also to meet Mike. I told her we'll work through this together. I told her I'd forgive he if she told me the complete truth, and she did. I would only end it if they had sex, and they didn't. Thank you guys for telling me to confront ASAP.
> 
> I told her we will need to go to marriage counselling and possibly IC. She said Ok. *She told her family that there's been a misunderstanding with Mek* and that she has to go there to make it right. So her family does not know what she did. She is begging us to not tell her family. She says the news will be unbearable for her parents. They won't be able to live with the shame. Her father was already crying so much when my mom called India today. My mom agrees that we probably shouldn't tell their parents.
> 
> I am going to get her to record everything she did in detail. She prefers to say it rather than write it down. There are still some details I would like cleared up. Oh man I missed her so much, it feels so good to have her back.


Wow...where do I begin...

She's still lying, to you and to her parents. Didn't she tell Mike that he is her "my jaan?" Don't you have that in your evidence?

In what universe is what she did considered a misunderstanding? Telling her parents it was a misunderstanding shows she's just covering her ass, and lying to do it.

There's no way it was just a kiss. Again, I ask: why do you trip over yourself to believe a serial liar? You were not with her 24/7 so how do you know nothing beyond a five minute hug and a peck on the lips happened? I'm thinking the make-out session was hot and heavy. To suggest that a 28 year old woman doesn't know right from wrong is an insult to all thinking people. She knew exactly what she was doing and she carefully planned it out. 

You are operating from a position of weakness and have shown her no consequence at all, and are actively rug sweeping this huge betrayal. Not even a polygraph? Geez.


----------



## sokillme

Mek said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So she's here with me now. Where to start. She has told me everything. Even stuff that I did not know. I pretended I knew everything already and her words are having no effect on me.
> She admitted every single thing...except her use of "My jaan". So this is what happened. I pick her up and she wants me to park the car somewhere. She starts crying as I'm driving. By the time I park she's wailing. Immediately she tells me she hugged him for 5 minutes and that they kissed on the lips. It wasn't a deep french kiss but just a tap for about a second. She kissed my hand to show me how it was. They met at a coffee shop for about 30 minutes. She started crying when they met because she missed him. He hugged her, and when they were about to leave he gave the peck on the lips.
> 
> This next part is what really hurt. She told Mike she had to go to Chandigarh to get her transcripts. She will be going with her brother. Will need to stay overnight because they had to go to multiple places. He tells her that don't worry I'll take you. She says we'll see. She tells me if she had gone with him she might have done something she regretted. god damnit. She also said in her mind she knew she shouldn't go and tried to come up with an excuse to tell him. She insisted she did not have any other physical relationship with Mike besides the hug and kiss. I really believe her. There was no other time she met with Mike, and they couldn't have had sex that one time they did meet. When I asked her if there's a chance of her being pregnant she made that look "how can you think this"? She insisted that I do a pregnancy test on her.
> 
> She also admitted to saying I love you and I miss you to him on whats app. She said yes she planned the trip with Mike on what's app before going there. She went there for the transcripts but also to meet Mike. I told her we'll work through this together. I told her I'd forgive he if she told me the complete truth, and she did. I would only end it if they had sex, and they didn't. Thank you guys for telling me to confront ASAP.
> 
> I told her we will need to go to marriage counselling and possibly IC. She said Ok. She told her family that there's been a misunderstanding with Mek and that she has to go there to make it right. So her family does not know what she did. She is begging us to not tell her family. She says the news will be unbearable for her parents. They won't be able to live with the shame. Her father was already crying so much when my mom called India today. My mom agrees that we probably shouldn't tell their parents.
> 
> I am going to get her to record everything she did in detail. She prefers to say it rather than write it down. There are still some details I would like cleared up. Oh man I missed her so much, it feels so good to have her back.


Well seems nothing has changed from my last post. But then she confessed and "understandably" just like that you believe her. I mean what's months of lying, she told you in person this time so she must be telling the truth now, am I right? Problem solved! She has played you like a sucker. Actually you played yourself. Now she knows just a few tears and a kiss or two and you will fall right in line. Good luck my gullible friend. You are gonna need it.


----------



## sokillme

areenhaque26 said:


> Now for her she needs to consciously cut off every connection she had with Mike if she truly wants it work with you. It'll take her time but this where you will have to work a bit hard so one day she wakes up and says "Mike who?"


How would he ever know? And why should she, she knows she can just cry and he will back down.

Look at it from her perspective, she got to have a nice vacation with what we in the west would call her high school sweetheart and as a consequence had to tape an assay about it. And maybe some marriage counseling where she can just say she was wrong and all is well. I bet she pushes for the counseling not to happen though as after all it was just a meeting of friends. Who cares about the months of lying installing a secret app to talk on, planing the vacation, telling him she loves him, and all that stuff. 

The scariest thing and the thing that @Mak doesn't get the enormity of is if he hadn't been spying on her she would have just had a nice vacation with her boyfriend and he would have been non the wiser. She would have come back like nothing ever happened. Imagine if she had gotten pregnant?


----------



## becareful2

When she was alone and free to speak her mind, she revealed what was truly in her heart: that Mike was her "my jaan." When she is cornered like a frightened animal, and felt enormous pressure from the fall-out to her family and their reputation, she continued to lie and said she only wants Mek. If the OP rug sweeps this without fleshing out all the facts, it's all on him, and I also don't buy that somehow this kind of meeting for closure with no sex is understandable given her culture. When two people are in the throes of passion, culture and ethnicity are thrown out the window. Body chemicals take center stage. If the OP truly loves her, why would he want her to stay? Let her go to be with her "my jaan." She would only be with the OP out of duty and cultural obligation so as to not bring shame on her family. Offer to divorce her and give some ambiguous excuse to the parents like "it just didn't work out or we're not compatible."


----------



## Malaise

sokillme said:


> The scariest thing and the thing that @Mak doesn't get the enormity of is if he hadn't been spying on her she would have just had a nice vacation with her boyfriend and he would have been non the wiser. She would have come back like nothing ever happened. Imagine if she had gotten pregnant?


This.
@Mek : You have to think about this.


----------



## becareful2

One last thing: OP's wife is nowhere close to experiencing genuine remorse, because she is still lying, and he has shown her no consequence. Crying while lying is known as crocodile tears.

And with that, I bid you good luck, Mek. You're gonna need it.


----------



## Malaise

Mek said:


> She also admitted to saying I love you and I miss you to him on whats app. *She said yes she planned the trip with Mike on what's app before going there. She went there for the transcripts but also to meet Mike.* I told her we'll work through this together. I told her I'd forgive he if she told me the complete truth, and she did. I would only end it if they had sex, and they didn't. Thank you guys for telling me to confront ASAP.
> 
> You believe her because you want to, not because she has a record of being always truthful.
> 
> 
> Oh man I missed her so much, it feels so good to have her back.



The bolded part above would be enough for most to end it.


----------



## Cynthia

I'm sorry, Mek. Her telling her parents a lie is her still lying. She saying it is to protect them is her manipulating you and them. Your whole family knows. It is illogical that her family should be kept in the dark. It's their right to know what is going on. If you don't make sure that at least her father knows the truth, she is still manipulating the situation.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Well done Mek. Good result. 

Sad to know that it would have gone further had she gone with him to Chandigarh and this is something she has to work on. She needs to eventually see that Mike would have slept with a married woman without thought for her marriage, the well being of her and her parents and with no care for anyone but his own needs (in the name of "love"). This does not make Mike a good man anymore than it would have made her a good woman! This she needs to work on for herself in letting go of her love for Mike. No doubt he pursued her too (just as she did over email etc).

And of course she needs to not only show in actions that she is remorseful but also feels safe to discuss things with you when they arise knowing that you are level headed and open. 

You will both get there.

I do think you need to speak to "Mike" and let him know that she told you everything and then hear what he has to say. Then you tell him in a very calm but cold voice that should he ever contact her of hang around her (including on line in any form), you will deal with him Sikh style and that the only reason the whole village/town doesn't know what kind of dog he is, is for the protection of her family (shame and health wise), and her name and honour.

As for the use of "my jaan". as you probably know this is part of everyday vernacular in all Indo-Aryan races including Persian, Turkish, Armenian, Hindi, Urdu (Pakistan), Afghani languages, and many others including a lot of the "istans" and related countries in what was the USSR (Turkomenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbegistan, Kazakhistan, Azer Baijan and all the "Turkish" parts of the Yugoslavian countries). So I would imagine that referring to her former love of her life as "my jaan" would have come naturally and almost unnoticed by her. As you know, when you have kids she will naturally refer to them in this way without thinking about it.

Take care of yourself and your wife.


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## eric1

My gut feeling is that she is lying.

I say this with all due respect but you need to re-evaluate codependency. It feels good to have her back? Dude...she was just in India to meet a boyfriend and was a hair away from consummating their relationship by her own admission.

I hope that everything will be ok, but if you want this to be a success then the prevailing emotion should be skepticism, not relief, right now. Save relief for when you've conquered the problem and you have not done this by a long shot


----------



## areenhaque26

manfromlamancha said:


> Well done Mek. Good result.
> 
> Sad to know that it would have gone further had she gone with him to Chandigarh and this is something she has to work on. She needs to eventually see that Mike would have slept with a married woman without thought for her marriage, the well being of her and her parents and with no care for anyone but his own needs (in the name of "love"). This does not make Mike a good man anymore than it would have made her a good woman! This she needs to work on for herself in letting go of her love for Mike. No doubt he pursued her too (just as she did over email etc).
> 
> And of course she needs to not only show in actions that she is remorseful but also feels safe to discuss things with you when they arise knowing that you are level headed and open.
> 
> You will both get there.
> 
> I do think you need to speak to "Mike" and let him know that she told you everything and then hear what he has to say. Then you tell him in a very calm but cold voice that should he ever contact her of hang around her (including on line in any form), you will deal with him Sikh style and that the only reason the whole village/town doesn't know what kind of dog he is, is for the protection of her family (shame and health wise), and her name and honour.
> 
> As for the use of "my jaan". as you probably know this is part of everyday vernacular in all Indo-Aryan races including Persian, Turkish, Armenian, Hindi, Urdu (Pakistan), Afghani languages, and many others including a lot of the "istans" and related countries in what was the USSR (Turkomenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbegistan, Kazakhistan, Azer Baijan and all the "Turkish" parts of the Yugoslavian countries). So I would imagine that referring to her former love of her life as "my jaan" would have come naturally and almost unnoticed by her. As you know, when you have kids she will naturally refer to them in this way without thinking about it.
> 
> Take care of yourself and your wife.


I think that's a really good idea that. @Mek should definitely talk to Mike and make it clear that he'll have consequences to deal with if he ever tried to contact his wife. 

Areen


----------



## mary35

I am glad she is home safe and sound. Right now it may feel good to have her home - but you should be aware that the things she told you are probably going to start painfully eating at you as they play over and over in your mind. I can not stress how important it is that you find a really good counselor ASAP. You both have a lot of work to do and need to get busy while you are still highly motivated because of the painful crisis you just experienced. 

Too many couples never get around to doing the counseling. Once the immediate crisis is over and life issues demand their focus again, they keep putting it off - dealing with more "important" and pressing things. Then after awhile they delude themselves into thinking they don't really need it anymore. Their problems get swept under a rug - but are still there, waiting to surface during the next big crisis and cause even more damage than before. 

Don't let that happen! Now is the time for both of you to do the work needed to clean up the mess and repair the damage. It is extremely important for your wife to start to work through and deal with her feelings for Mike, and to explore what her true feelings are for you. For both of your sakes - she has to make a choice of her own free will to either commit to you 100% - forsaking all others including Mike, or to let you go so you can find someone else who will. You deserve nothing less!

It is important for you to recognize that her behavior thus far clearly shows that she is not nor ever was 100% committed to you and your marriage. She may insist she is committed to it - but the reality is that she has been straddling a fence ever since your marriage was arranged. You are one side of the fence and Mike is on the other side. Its time for her to get off the fence and choose who she is going to commit to and give all of her love and loyalty too. I believe she needs professional help in order to make this decision and to follow through with aligning her behaviors with her decision. 

In addition you both will benefit greatly by getting professional guidance on setting up safe and effective boundaries and rules for your marriage and your relationship so that trust and respect can be established and maintained. The counselor can teach and help you put into practice good relationship building skills and help you to learn to be open and honest with each other and learn how to effectively work through problems and issues in constructive ways. 

I can't stress the importance of dealing with your issues now!! It will save you both years of heartache and pain down the road!!

I have been very impressed by the way you handled yourself through this extremely emotional and troubling problem. It is clear you have a lot of love and compassion for your wife and are sincerely concerned about her well being and happiness. I sincerely hope that things work out for the both of you. I really think the two of you can have a good life and marriage together and be extremely happy - IF you BOTH are committed to making your marriage a success and do what needs to be done for that to happen!


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## Evinrude58

areenhaque26 said:


> I think that's a really good idea that. @Mek should definitely talk to Mike and make it clear that he'll have consequences to deal with if he ever tried to contact his wife.
> 
> Areen




Mek, your reaction to your wife's complete and utter betrayal of you is no less than asking for it to happen again.
You have knowingly financed a trip for your wife to meet her known sweetheart, ignored her repeated lies and greeted her with open arms, allowed her to continue lying to her parents and you about it, and have handily declared "no sex" in spite of obvious reason to believe it happened if there was opportunity. You have zero way of knowing if opportunity arose.
You have used every excuse, no matter how unreasonable, to protect her inexcusable, shameful acts of infidelity.

Do you realize that you are ENABLING your wife to cheat and cover this up?

Why should you care about Her parents shame? Does YOUR shame count for nothing?
The person who SHOULD feel some shame is getting away with lying it all away.

If you let her lie this all away, you are creating a monster by your own hand.
Undoubtedly you will end up regretting these decisions you've made.

It's your life, I just hate to see you mess it up. Don't you see that allowing her to lie to her parents and not set things straight makes you an accomplice to lying yourself? Why would they ever believe anything you say in the future? 

That's my concern for you--- the future.

I've not seen a case of self-sabotage this bad in a long time. I hate to see you handle things this way.i hope I'm all wrong.


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## manwithnoname

@Mek, something you should be concerned about is when WS says they only kissed it usually means sex, you've been lurking long enough to know this. Also when you spoke to her on the phone when she was still in India she told you they didn't have sex and you said to her that you believed her. That tells her you don't know if she had sex with him (if she truly did) and it opened the door for her to fully admit to a hug and kiss, which makes her appear to be volunteering information that would not be a deal breaker to you.


Since sex appears to be the only deal breaker for you, you need to figure out a way to find out if they had sex, and not by asking her.


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## Blondilocks

There is something that is difficult to understand. You have repeatedly stated you needed her to tell you the truth, yet, you have also stated that you are lenient on deception and lies as that is your culture. You don't say if you called her on any of her lies and deception so, you gave her a pass on all this stuff? If lies and deception are your expectation of her, then don't be disappointed when she lives up to your expectation.


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## Tatsuhiko

I don't know your culture very well, but if this were me, I'd make her tell her parents the whole story. I believe WS's should experience the full consequences of their actions, at the very least as way to get them to grow up. It helps guarantee that they'll never behave that way again. Their willingness to expose themselves is also a demonstration of commitment to the BS and an acknowledgement of full responsibility for their actions. Anything short of this is just another form of rugsweeping. 

Do not try to get her pregnant at this point. Explain to her that you've lost a great deal of trust for her, and you're not sure she's fully committed to you. If she can regain this trust, then children are a possibility in the future.


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## drifting on

Mek,

The day before my d-day my wife began to trickle truth. I said I needed honesty and the full truth. I gave her until the next day to have such honesty, and I got it. But here is where I'll tell you about the gut punch you're about to get, the day before was a lie and damage control. Sure she told me they once held hands and walked, sure she told they kissed once and hugged. This was during work hours, she asked how could she have the time for sex?? Well the next day was much worse, and this is your gut punch, but they did more. 

Your wife admits they hugged for five minutes, they kissed, but it was very brief. Then she says she would need to stay in a hotel to get her transcripts. Then she tells you she MAY HAVE DONE SOMETHING IF SHE STAYED OVERNIGHT. Well, Mek, this is where she was feeling you out to see what her future WITH YOU held. And for you it held divorce if she had sex. Now that she knows this she will never tell you that they did have sex. 

The way I see it now, you have to have her take a polygraph, but you need to surprise her with this. Your best hope is a parking lot confession, she is fine with a pregnancy test because they used protection. It will take you far too long to make her feel safe enough to give you the truth. She's lying better then the rug in your family room, she planned the entire trip to meet him, she met him, and it didn't stop with a hug and a kiss. You are hurt Mek, you are in shock, and your brain is protecting you from the trauma you will soon receive. 

By the way, my wife, the holding hands once, the hug and kiss once, ended up being sex and my wife getting pregnant with twins. Then lied and deceived the paternity to me for two and a half years. So I hope you don't believe this story, because that's all it is, a story that happens to be fiction. Now you could say I'm biased or even have prejudice that since my wife did it yours may not have. I invite you to read stories on TAM, a kiss means sex, and if you don't believe me just ask the members here. They'll tell you honestly, something your wife isn't capable of at this time, she's still in damage control mode.

Best of luck.


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## Thor

Why is she choosing this marriage?

She fears her parents knowing what she did. She fears the social stigma to herself, and she fears the stigma to her parents. For many, divorce is also a stigma of sorts. My concern here is she is not choosing Mek out of love or devotion, but instead is choosing to stay in the marriage to avoid outside embarrassments.

Regardless, it is the wayward who has to do the hard work of proving they are worthy of keeping. She must do it. Mek, you cannot do this for her. And, by letting her off the hook you are in fact making things worse. She needs to be held fully accountable for what she did. She needs to show true remorse for her actions. Not sorrow or embarrassment for how it looks to her parents or community, but remorse for hurting you.

I suggest one of the good books on healing from an affair. I have read and like "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. The book explains what steps are necessary for you to heal. It will help her to read the book. It will also help you to read it.

Unless you go through the steps of healing, this infidelity will poison your marriage forever. Recovery from infidelity is possible, though rare. You need to hold her feet to the fire for her own good as well as for your good.


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## manfromlamancha

eric1 said:


> My gut feeling is that she is lying.
> 
> I say this with all due respect but you need to re-evaluate codependency. It feels good to have her back? Dude...she was just in India to meet a boyfriend and was a hair away from consummating their relationship by her own admission.
> 
> I hope that everything will be ok, but if you want this to be a success then the prevailing emotion should be skepticism, not relief, right now. Save relief for when you've conquered the problem and you have not done this by a long shot


There is a lot of truth in what Eric1 is saying Mek. And I hope that I have not come across as taking anything away from this fact. All I said is that you have handled yourself well so far.

The bottom line is (a) she went there with the intention of meeting him; (b) lied to you about it before and while she was there; (c) kissed him on the lips (light peck or not) which in many circumstances would be cheater speak for had sex etc.

Furthermore she wanted to have sex with him while she was there - she has said as much in that had she gone to Chandigarh, she would have done something she would regret later.

You should not treat this lightly and should be sceptical going forward because this was deceitful behaviour and is bag given how easily it came to her to do it (on your dime).

I am not sure if it would work but a polygraph test in Punjabi may be something worth doing. To find out if there is that chance that they had sex. If this were not a Punjabi situation, I would normally be saying 98% chance they did more than she is admitting too. Right now its about 50%.

So I agree with the others when they say this is far from over - she has cheated (any way you look at it) and you need to deal with this appropriately. I think you know what you need to do and part of this is her getting to come to terms with and be honest with you about why she did it.

What I don't agree with is causing harm to old, innocent parents by informing and shaming them (as others are suggesting here and they do not really get how damaging this would be to her parents). 

However, I also think with the right attitude and actions from her, and due caution from you, you could get to a strong marriage.


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## sokillme

Thor said:


> Why is she choosing this marriage?
> 
> She fears her parents knowing what she did. She fears the social stigma to herself, and she fears the stigma to her parents. For many, divorce is also a stigma of sorts. My concern here is she is not choosing Mek out of love or devotion, but instead is choosing to stay in the marriage to avoid outside embarrassments.


She certainly didn't fear hurting you Mek.


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## lucy999

The fact that she said she would've had sex with mike had there been an opportunity AND that she and mike planned the trip together speaks volumes. She's just sorry she got caught. Don't protect her, she's an adult, she made adult choices, so she must have adult consequences. Her father must be told. Not her mother though since she had a heart attack (did she really though??). 

She just wants to save her and her family and mike, and her village embarrassment. 

Did you tell her she must never ever communicate with mike again (if that is indeed a boundary for you)?

Good luck and proceed with caution. This is far from genuine remorse.


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## ConanHub

"I lied to you about my trip and it's purpose, I lied about my level of contact with my ex, I continued to lie when you confronted me about your knowledge of who I was seeing but you have to believe I'm telling you the truth that he didn't stuff me like a Christmas goose!"


LOL!


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## Blondilocks

She told him what he wanted to hear so he's a happy camper. She probably let him bang her all night so he's a really happy camper and can't imagine his life without his pure dove. Besides, his uncle has most likely told him that she's learned her lesson so stop picking at her and his mom thinks she's learned her lesson so shut the hell up about it.

Methinks he's gonna need a bigger bed.


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## Mek

I'm not handling this very well. I can forgive the hug and kiss but she would've had sex? As we have said before, she was high on the emotional affair and didn't THINK about what she was doing. She told me herself she didn't know what she hoped to obtain by doing this. She admits she made terrible mistakes. I will definitely seek help from a marriage counselor because I need it. 

Some things I wanted to point out:
- "my jaan" is not just something she says to Mike. She says it to me as well. 
- If she had sex with Mike on that day she wouldn't have said "thanks for giving me a hug" on what's app. They were also at a public place. She said Mike's nephew was with them at the time as well in the same restaurant, but his back was towards them and they were hidden. Mike ordered some juice or something but she didn't drink it. There is always a possibility but I think it is highly unlikely. Are polygraphs really accurate? I'll look into taking one just to be at peace about this.

I told her about how what she did keeps bothering me. She said I know I hurt you a lot. I know what I did was wrong. There is no bigger punishment than regret. I will make everything right. She says she doesn't care about Mike anymore, weather he's living or dead. I said that's what you say now but when the dust settles feelings may return. You have to consciously ignore any feelings for him. She said she will. She offered me to take her phone with me to work, so I did. Her lips started quivering as she realized I didn't trust her (although I did tell her she has to get me to trust her again). She also wants another SIM card so he cant call her number. She says she wants me to delete every number from her phone besides her families numbers. 

I keep bringing up the topic of telling her parents. But she is BEGGING me not to. She said my dad won't be able to handle it and will kill himself. This is the ONLY reason I cant tell them. She said you can tell my sister. Her sister suspected something was up on the day Kate met up with Mike (since Kate was meeting her sister at 12:00). I will definitely tell her sister everything. My mom said maybe Kate can tell her dad that this really was her fault, but don't give the details of what happened. We will see if telling only this much is OK. 

Thor, I believe she does actually have feelings for me as well. Remember there were signs from her that did indicate genuine love. (writing this actually made me feel a little better because I seemed to have forgotten this fact as well). I would've told my wife to read that book but her English is not very good. I will give it a read. 

I want Mike to be taught a lesson. I will try to explore if there are other options. If not I will call him.


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## Jasel

I still recommend you have her take a polygraph. Like others have said I doubt you got the full truth. Right now for her it's all about damage control. To me it seems like she's more upset about the possible consequences and fall out of her actions more than how she betrayed you.


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## Andy1001

I'm having trouble reconciling this lip quivering,regretful,remorseful wife with the woman who got you to pay for a trip to India to pick up some papers which she couldn't even get until three weeks later,just so she could meet her side piece.You make sure the hole you are burying your head in is plenty big for when she does it again.She must be absolutely drop dead gorgeous for you to accept her behaviour.She is being disingenuous by allowing you to tell her sister.She allready knows buddy,she was covering for her all along.


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## Mek

If she does anything like this again it's over. Her sister knows but not all the details. Kate said when she added Mike's number to her contacts her sister found out since they share the same Google account. Her sister gave her a warning but Kate ignored her.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Did you have her take the pregnancy test she said she would take?

What you do now is going to set the stage for your marriage. If you allow her to manipulate you now, she will continue to do so. 



manfromlamancha said:


> What I don't agree with is causing harm to old, innocent parents by informing and shaming them (as others are suggesting here and they do not really get how damaging this would be to her parents).


How old are her parents?

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with the above quote. What is damaging to her parents is being lied to. If this information gets out (since Mek's family knows the details it could), her family will have no idea what's really going on. They need to know. She has lied to them and now they need to understand the truth of what's going on, so they can work through it. We all deal with difficulty. They are not children who need to be sheltered, but grown adults with a wayward daughter who needs to be held accountable. If her parents know the truth, she is much less likely to continue to try to manipulate Mek, because she knows she cannot get away with it. 

Allowing her to escape the consequences of her behavior is a surefire way to give her a pass to behave this way. Do you really want to set a precedent in your marriage that allows for this kind of behavior? Believe me, it will impact your children as well. Your wife has apparently been taught that this kind of lying, deceit, and manipulation of a husband is how to get along in life. Do you want her teaching this to your daughters? If you make this work for her, that is exactly what she's going to do.


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## Cynthia

Mek said:


> If she does anything like this again it's over. Her sister knows but not all the details. Kate said when she added Mike's number to her contacts her sister found out since they share the same Google account. Her sister gave her a warning but Kate ignored her.


That's some pretty serious determination to do what she wanted to do come hell or high water. She had her mind set on Mike. This is not good. And now she is continuing to advance her agenda by asking you to let her lie to her parents.

What is your plan? After she contacts Mike to tell him "good-bye forever" are you going to contact Mike and tell him to stay the hell away from your wife? (Don't threaten him - especially in writing.)


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## manwithnoname

CynthiaDe said:


> That's some pretty serious determination to do what she wanted to do come hell or high water. She had her mind set on Mike. This is not good. And now she is continuing to advance her agenda by asking you to let her lie to her parents.
> 
> What is your plan? After she contacts Mike to tell him "good-bye forever" are you going to contact Mike and tell him to stay the hell away from your wife? (Don't threaten him - especially in writing.)





The idea is she doesn't contact Mike ever again, for any reason.


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## lucy999

@Mek i realize this is just a trivial thing, but it is the principle of it all. she should be the one to delete Mike's number from all of her devices. Not you. For me, it would be a symbolic thing. She does the heavy lifting if you are going to R. You do not. The more I read on this thread, the more it is apparent that you are in a parental role. That is not good. She is not some shrinking violet as you are portraying her, she is an adult. She is not that naive and doe eyed if she can orchestrate a trip to another country based on the falsehood of getting her transcripts in person. All the while thinking you are none the wiser. She is not an innocent flower. She is very calculating and, unfortunately, she is a liar.


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## Tatsuhiko

I don't think you should focus on Mike, or teaching him a lesson. It's your wife that is broken. If your wife is attractive, there are a million men in India who would be happy to hug her and chat with her. It is folly to try to correct the behavior of someone who you shouldn't care about. The problem is in your wife, and as long as her underlying problem is there, there could be another Mike someday. 

I think your wife is a shamed child who wants to hide things from her parents so she doesn't get in trouble. I don't think her father will kill himself, and informing the parents will be a good way for your wife to own up to what she did and enter adulthood. 

From what you've told us, and the fact that your culture is more conservative, I think you're correct that they did not have sex. Had she been a Western wife, there'd be little doubt in my head that she'd already had sex. But you should do the pregnancy test and consider an STD test anyway.


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## drifting on

Mek

Look, I want for you the best that you can get for yourself. If you want to reconcile or divorce, I'll give you advice either way. In the meantime you need to get the truth, and I can tell you that you haven't. She's admitted to all but one thing, and for you to believe her is somewhat foolish. I know that's harsh, but there are way too many issues in this story. 

By your own admission you said you didn't get all the texts. You said it look like schedules conflicted and they didn't meet. But they did, and do you really think his nephew was there? Where was her family if they were suspicious? Guess what, the nephew had apple juice, why, because you won't EVER know. Trust but verify is your way of living for now. You know she deleted texts, that's why your soy program didn't pick them up. Do you think it's hard to delete a certain text and keep a certain text? No she texted I wish I could have given you a hug, SHE DID, ALONG with a kiss. If nobody was with her why would Mike bring his nephew? Think about this!!!

Did she get her transcripts? If she did then you know she spent the night. And what did she tell you about that? That she would have gone astray, she is far more calculating then you give her credit for. Find a polygraph, tell her she is taking one as she gets into the car. That's the most warning she gets, and remember it sucks to get the truth this way. She was measuring your response to sex by telling you that she may have if staying the night. How much total time was she there? You don't think she could have disappeared did an hour????

You don't have near the full truth, and she won't say she had sex because that's your deal breaker. She's telling you what she knows you will accept and still stay with her. By the way, tell her you will be telling her parents, consequences suck but I doubt dad will kill himself. How you expose can be discussed by you both, perhaps she calls her father and tells him why she even went. The cultures may be different, cheating is the same. Protect yourself.


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## Blondilocks

"There is no bigger punishment than regret"

Hello? Just what does she have to regret? There has been and will be no consequences. You've seen to that. I can think of a lot worse 'punishments' than non-regret. It is not your place to punish her, anyway. She is a grown woman and needs to think in terms of consequences and not punishment as though you are her daddy and she is a child.

She did exactly as she wanted at your expense and has called the shots all the way home. Her last 'mistake' was intentionally booking a flight home against your wishes. Maybe it's a language problem, but a mistake is not premeditated. She even pre-empted your wanting to discuss your feelings with her 'regret' nonsense. 

Yeah, you tell her sister. Sis might be able to hold her guffaws long enough to hang up the phone. Your wife has made a fool of you - big time.

I know exactly what she should buy you for your birthday: a 36" push broom. You're going to need it. Good luck.


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## eric1

This is getting rug swept - I recommend to everyone that you tailor your advice towards reality rather than ideal actions.

Rug sweeping leads to repeat behavior. He needs to be coached on ways to catch this again in the future .


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## Andy1001

When you threaten her like this,to her it is like been savaged by a bunny rabbit.She has had the time of her life with Mike and Now she is welcomed home with open arms and empty impotent threats.She doesn't give a fcuk about you or your meaningless ultimations.
To be frank you sound like one of these guys who have a girlfriend way out of his league but she treats him like siht,he puts up with it because he wants his friends to think he has a hot chick in love with him.In reality your friends AND family know exactly what you are married to.


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## Thor

Mek said:


> If she does anything like this again it's over.


You need a much better defined boundary than that. You need to develop it for yourself, and you need to communicate a strict boundary to her. What is "anything like this"? Travel to India to see Mike? Lie to you about meeting another man? Kissing another man?

If you set a vague line in the sand, you will let her cross it. How do I know? I did exactly that! I let the grey zone be my excuse not to go nuclear on her. I so desperately wanted to believe she was back in the marriage. I wanted to believe that her numerous lies and deceptions were out of character for her. Well, in fact her character is exactly what was observed. Same with your wife. Her character is such that it was ok to secretly plan to meet Mike, to get you to pay for her trip, for her to lie to you about numerous things before and during the trip, to kiss Mike, to plan on having sex with him if the opportunity arose, and to then lie to you when you confronted her. That is who she is. Yes there are other parts to her, but the ability to engage in all those disloyalties are part of her, too.

I would suggest boundaries such as any lie, no matter how small. Any contact with Mike. Any flirting behavior with any other man. Any lie about Mike or her trip which she has not confessed to you already.

No grey areas. No wiggle room. No benefit of the doubt! Everything defaults for the next year or more to her being in violation of the boundaries. When something comes up that is not 100%, the default position is she lied until she proves otherwise.

If you let things slide she will see you as weak. She will learn to exploit you. She will not respect you.


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## Thor

drifting on said:


> In the meantime you need to get the truth, and I can tell you that you haven't. She's admitted to all but one thing, and for you to believe her is somewhat foolish. I know that's harsh, but there are way too many issues in this story.


Failure to get the full truth now would be a big mistake. In addition, she must reach *capitulation*. Sometimes that is described on this forum as being on her knees crying snot bubbles and begging to be forgiven. She has not yet *capitulated*. When she does, she will no longer resist anything. She will agree to tell her parents, to delete his contact from her phone, to get a polygraph, etc.

Mek, you need to know that you have the full truth from her. Only they can you start to rebuild trust in the relationship.



drifting on said:


> Trust but verify is your way of living for now.


Repeated because it is key to successfully saving your marriage.



drifting on said:


> Find a polygraph, tell her she is taking one as she gets into the car.


Also, as others have suggested, require her to get a pregnancy test and a full battery STD test. Right now your message to her should be "I cannot believe anything you tell me until it has been verified. You have _destroyed_ my ability to trust you". To get that message across to her you must make her feel some pain. Going for an STD test is one way to not only assure yourself she has no diseases, but just as importantly it emphasizes to her that you do not believe her without verification.



drifting on said:


> The cultures may be different, cheating is the same. Protect yourself.


I am having difficulty with the cultural differences to be honest. I believe human nature is universal. In that regard, you will not have trust in your relationship if she does not prove herself worthy of trust. She will not respect you if you don't hold her feet to the fire. She needs you to do that!


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## Malaise

He doesn't want the truth. He accepts what she's said, but it's not the truth.


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## Blondilocks

He also needs to inquire of those who arranged his marriage if they had any knowledge of this previous suitor. He can hold their feet to the fire for sticking him with this lemon.

She had several months after the marriage before joining him in Canada to get closure on this past boyfriend. Maybe he was still her boyfriend up until she left for Canada?


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## Laurens1122

Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I own a bridge in Brooklyn and I am thinking of selling it and I think you would be the right person to buy it.
Contact me at gullibleheadupass.com and we will talk.


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## Malaise

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because she's a proven liar?


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## Laurens1122

Andy1001 said:


> I own a bridge in Brooklyn and I am thinking of selling it and I think you would be the right person to buy it.
> 
> Contact me at gullibleheadupass.com and we will talk.




Aren't you hilarious. What proof is there that she did more than what she admitted to and what Mek found out about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

Laurens1122 said:


> Aren't you hilarious. What proof is there that she did more than what she admitted to and what Mek found out about?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What proof have you that this woman is capable of telling the truth even if it is hitting her in the face.And thank you I think I am hilarious but it's nice when a total stranger acknowledges it.


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## Andy1001

Laurens1122 said:


> Aren't you hilarious. What proof is there that she did more than what she admitted to and what Mek found out about?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why are you portraying yourself as an apologist for a lying,cheating woman.Are you looking for a cause or just a hill to die on?


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## Laurens1122

Andy1001 said:


> Why are you portraying yourself as an apologist for a lying,cheating woman.Are you looking for a cause or just a hill to die on?




You're an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric1

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Intent is the big problem. If she actually f*cked him is a rounding error in the big scheme of things.


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## Andy1001

Laurens1122 said:


> You're an idiot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.


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## Andy1001

Laurens1122 said:


> You're an idiot.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for your considered opinion but I have been insulted before,by intelligent people.Please stop throwing your toys out of your pushchair,you may hit someone.


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## Tatsuhiko

Let's not get off-topic with a fight. The truth is that none of us know enough about the OP's culture to make a good guess about whether she had sex or not. In the absence of that knowledge, I do have to put faith in OP's understanding of "thanks for the hug" in his culture. Seems to me that her message would have been much more suggestive if sex was involved, especially since OP's wife had no idea that OP was monitoring her messages. 

We tend to have a very casual attitude about sex in Western culture--hookups, premarital sex, promiscuity, kink, porn, etc. This is not the case in many other cultures in the world. In other parts of the world, consequences for sexual infidelity are often very serious (especially for an unfaithful woman), and the act is not engaged in lightly. We need to trust the OP's assessment to an extent. 

What's clear is that she's been having an emotional affair, at the very least.


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## Thor

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy?


Because that would be what happens 99.99% of the time. The cultural issue is a wild card here which many of us, including me, are somewhat unsure of. If it weren't for that wildcard, it would be a sure thing they had sex. When the woman says they kissed it almost always turns out to be full on sex. Cheaters always minimize, lie, gaslight, and trickle truth.



Laurens1122 said:


> They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that.


We only have her word on that. She's been there for weeks, and met him twice that we know of. Cheaters lie. This woman has lied numerous times. Absent solid proof, I would not believe they were not alone. _She went there with the intent to have sex with him, per her admission_.



Laurens1122 said:


> Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate.


We know she lied to Mek many times before the trip and during the trip. She lied when he confronted her. Cheaters lie. It would be a statistical outlier if she has given him the full truth.

I agree they need the intervention of a skilled marriage therapist. A decision to divorce or reconcile should be made later on unless he discovers she has crossed a boundary which, for him, requires divorce.



Laurens1122 said:


> Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!


He should evaluate all the different viewpoints and then trust his gut. Not give in to fear or stick his head in the sand, but trust his gut feeling on what has happened. Mek sounds like a classic Nice Guy. If he gets the wrong MC he will be greatly harmed. He needs a therapist experienced in infidelity who does not blame the betrayed. They need to work the process of recovering from infidelity first.


----------



## Evinrude58

Mek said:


> I'm not handling this very well. I can forgive the hug and kiss but she would've had sex? As we have said before, she was high on the emotional affair and didn't THINK about what she was doing. She told me herself she didn't know what she hoped to obtain by doing this. She admits she made terrible mistakes. I will definitely seek help from a marriage counselor because I need it.
> 
> Some things I wanted to point out:
> - "my jaan" is not just something she says to Mike. She says it to me as well.
> - If she had sex with Mike on that day she wouldn't have said "thanks for giving me a hug" on what's app. They were also at a public place. She said Mike's nephew was with them at the time as well in the same restaurant, but his back was towards them and they were hidden. Mike ordered some juice or something but she didn't drink it. There is always a possibility but I think it is highly unlikely. Are polygraphs really accurate? I'll look into taking one just to be at peace about this.
> 
> I told her about how what she did keeps bothering me. She said I know I hurt you a lot. I know what I did was wrong. There is no bigger punishment than regret. I will make everything right. She says she doesn't care about Mike anymore, weather he's living or dead. I said that's what you say now but when the dust settles feelings may return. You have to consciously ignore any feelings for him. She said she will. She offered me to take her phone with me to work, so I did. Her lips started quivering as she realized I didn't trust her (although I did tell her she has to get me to trust her again). She also wants another SIM card so he cant call her number. She says she wants me to delete every number from her phone besides her families numbers.
> 
> I keep bringing up the topic of telling her parents. But she is BEGGING me not to. She said my dad won't be able to handle it and will kill himself. This is the ONLY reason I cant tell them. She said you can tell my sister. Her sister suspected something was up on the day Kate met up with Mike (since Kate was meeting her sister at 12:00). I will definitely tell her sister everything. My mom said maybe Kate can tell her dad that this really was her fault, but don't give the details of what happened. We will see if telling only this much is OK.
> 
> Thor, I believe she does actually have feelings for me as well. Remember there were signs from her that did indicate genuine love. (writing this actually made me feel a little better because I seemed to have forgotten this fact as well). I would've told my wife to read that book but her English is not very good. I will give it a read.
> 
> I want Mike to be taught a lesson. I will try to explore if there are other options. If not I will call him.


No bigger punishment than regret? Hmmm, I can think of a few. How do you know she regrets anything but getting caught?
And last of all, your anger at mike is understandable but totally misdirected.
This "lesson" that you feel mike needs, is the one your wife is in NEED of.

Mike owes you no loyalty. Your wife does,.


----------



## SunCMars

eric1 said:


> Intent is the big problem. If she actually f*cked him is a rounding error in the big scheme of things.


Good analogy!!


----------



## SunCMars

manfromlamancha said:


> What I was referring to Aine kind of described. I am not saying demure Punjabi girl from a village in the 1900's at all. In fact as I said at the start Punjabis are very passionate people as you know.
> 
> If she fell in love with Mike, this is not a switch you can switch off. Yes she should have been honest with you about meeting up with Mike and this you are going to have to work on - her ability to be honest with you ALWAYS.
> 
> But perhaps others cannot visualise her going back, giving someone she loved and did not have any real closure from yet not sleeping with him. Her love for you will grow and at some stage Mike will be a distant memory. Everyone has memories of past loves. Its what she does going forward that is important. Give her the ability to do that if she doesn't have it now.
> 
> I am sure she is happy that you speak Punjabi to any good level at all. All I was making sure of way that she understands you clearly when you emphasise any point you make with her.
> 
> Good luck Mek.


A kind hearted post, MFL

A mature one and one well-reasoned out.

Kudos !


----------



## SunCMars

mary35 said:


> Mek, I think you are on the right track so far. You are getting some different view points, but seem to be sifting through them well, and going with your gut feeling in choosing how to handle this situation. Keep doing that, especially be careful when the advice is given through westernized eyes. Her world and our world is not the same - and her culture and our culture are vastly different and this situation needs to be handled keeping her culture in mind at all times.
> 
> It is hard for many who have been raised in the western world and culture to understand how much control and influence families - especially parents in other cultures have over their children's lives, even control over their adult children's life - and how that control is even greater with female children in some countries. Its hard to understand what it feels like to have very little control over your life and to be totally dependent on others who make many of the important life decisions for you - whether you like it or not or whether you want them to or not. This kind of control is frowned upon and is not accepted at all in our western culture. Yet is a very real accepted fact of life in many other cultures. Was it this way for your wife? Was she raised traditionally with her parents making most of her decisions for her?
> 
> While I agree that lying and sneaking around to see an old boyfriend is not good for any marriage, and what your wife did is extremely troubling, I am glad to see that you understand that this is not necessarily an inherent flaw in her character. But it is definitely a flaw that has to be dealt with. I too think this situation is fixable - and your marriage - while at this moment is in a troubled state - is not nor should not be thought of as doomed beyond repair. It will take a lot of work from both you and your wife, it will take a lot of patience, and understanding, and forgiveness - especially from you right now. It will take your wife making a conscious choice to choose this marriage because it is what she wants - not what others have chosen for her. And it may take some time for her to be able to completely let go of her attachment to Mike and her dreams of a life with him.
> 
> She may be almost 30, but if she was raised in traditional ways of her culture - she could very much be a child on many important levels. When a person is raised under strict control and lives a life full of restrictions and lack of choices and control - they don't have the opportunities to grow and develop fully, stunting their maturity growth.
> 
> I don't know how well you knew each other before you married - but it sounds like you were pretty much strangers when you became engaged. If that is the case - your wife probably does not feel completely safe with you yet. You sound like one of the good ones - and I think she probably has been figuring that out - bit by bit, but I doubt that in the short time you have been married that she has established a close enough bond that she feels like she can be totally honest with you and open herself up completely with you. Just as others have said - trust has to be earned - although they were referring to the fact that she has just shown you she is not trustworthy so will now have to earn it back. However, the same is true with you - trust has to be earned. And while you may not have done anything to show her you are not trustworthy - you are still in the process of showing her you ARE trustworthy simply because of the circumstances of your arranged marriage.
> 
> I know its hard to separate out emotions and to try to think about this calmly and rationally, but if you can do that - and if you can try to put yourself in her shoes and see things from her eyes and have empathy for her, I think you can go a long way in helping her understand that she really is safe with you - that she can trust you - and that you are someone who is very deserving of her trust and worthy of her love. Yes she hurt you . But she has been hurting for a long time. She fell in love with someone before she even knew you. She would have married him - but was denied that choice and that life. Clearly she is not dealing with her feelings well and has made some really bad choices - resulting in this huge mess. Somehow she needs to deal with these feelings in a more productive way. This is going to take some time and probably some professional help.
> 
> In my opinion - marriage counseling and IC for your wife - right now is imperative. I don't think either of you should make any decisions yet, because you both have some things to figure out first. Unless or until your wife comes to terms with her feelings about Mike and chooses on her own to willingly cut all ties with him, your marriage will continue to be threatened. This choice needs to be her own choice and made with her free will. If she is forced, threatened, or guilted into it - I don't think she will be able to give him up completely emotionally and then she will not be able to commit to you 100%. I don't think you deserve or want any less! Do you?
> 
> The question you have to decide is - are you willing to risk more pain, and give her some time, getting help from a professional, understanding that at the end of that time she may not choose you? I am saying all this - assuming that you would want her to choose you with her own free will.
> 
> If you are willing to give her time and a choice and try the counseling route - my suggestion would be to bring her home and make her feel safe with you instead of imposing any harsh consequences and ultimatums immediately. Find a good marriage counselor who is knowledgeable about your culture and has experience dealing with arranged marriages. Let the counselor facilitate the discussions that needs to be had, so they can be done in a safe and calm environment. Wait to have the honesty and timeline discussion with the counselor present. Let the counselor give the no contact and full transparency talks. That way you will not have to be the husband who is controlling her life even more. The counselor can explain these actions as something necessary and needed in order to build any good marriage.


Another wise head. Kudos

This is an arranged marriage. Love comes later, if at all.

If I pick two strangers out of a crowd and force them to marry........well, you get the picture.


----------



## sokillme

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why does it matter. She is a married women who put her entire inner circle in jeopardy so she could take a secret vacation to go see her soulmate boyfriend. How could anyone logically believe a word she says about the subject? Seriously reading that sentence I just wrote why do you believe her?


----------



## sokillme

SunCMars said:


> Another wise head. Kudos
> 
> This is an arranged marriage. Love comes later, if at all.
> 
> If I pick two strangers out of a crowd and force them to marry........well, you get the picture.


Putting aside the love issue, by the way she loves the other guy so I don't know why we are discounting that. But since you want to, what about the continual lies? 

Just focusing on the character issue of her "vacation" and continued wilful lying about it, why is this woman a good bet in a spouse? Because her and his family set up the marriage? 

Say even if she hates Mek presumably she has some loyalty to her immediate family right, as is expected in eastern culture? So what does it say about her that she was willing to risk her entire family's shame and embarrassment so she could go see this guy? Seems she was willing to risk even her parents health as she knows finding out would kill them or at least she is afraid of that. 

Again where is the logic that she is a good choice or that she is telling the truth now or ever? Why would she suddenly become the loyal dutiful wife when she doesn't even love him. Yet she has shown absolute no respect to the family whom she presumably loves and raised her? What is her motivation to suddenly treat her husband better then way she treats her own mother and father? After all she didn't just lie to Mek here. She has really been lying to everyone from the point where her parents forbid her to marry this guy. But now it's going to stop?


----------



## areenhaque26

Mek said:


> I'm not handling this very well. I can forgive the hug and kiss but she would've had sex? As we have said before, she was high on the emotional affair and didn't THINK about what she was doing. She told me herself she didn't know what she hoped to obtain by doing this. She admits she made terrible mistakes. I will definitely seek help from a marriage counselor because I need it.
> 
> Some things I wanted to point out:
> - "my jaan" is not just something she says to Mike. She says it to me as well.
> - If she had sex with Mike on that day she wouldn't have said "thanks for giving me a hug" on what's app. They were also at a public place. She said Mike's nephew was with them at the time as well in the same restaurant, but his back was towards them and they were hidden. Mike ordered some juice or something but she didn't drink it. There is always a possibility but I think it is highly unlikely. Are polygraphs really accurate? I'll look into taking one just to be at peace about this.
> 
> I told her about how what she did keeps bothering me. She said I know I hurt you a lot. I know what I did was wrong. There is no bigger punishment than regret. I will make everything right. She says she doesn't care about Mike anymore, weather he's living or dead. I said that's what you say now but when the dust settles feelings may return. You have to consciously ignore any feelings for him. She said she will. She offered me to take her phone with me to work, so I did. Her lips started quivering as she realized I didn't trust her (although I did tell her she has to get me to trust her again). She also wants another SIM card so he cant call her number. She says she wants me to delete every number from her phone besides her families numbers.
> 
> I keep bringing up the topic of telling her parents. But she is BEGGING me not to. She said my dad won't be able to handle it and will kill himself. This is the ONLY reason I cant tell them. She said you can tell my sister. Her sister suspected something was up on the day Kate met up with Mike (since Kate was meeting her sister at 12:00). I will definitely tell her sister everything. My mom said maybe Kate can tell her dad that this really was her fault, but don't give the details of what happened. We will see if telling only this much is OK.
> 
> Thor, I believe she does actually have feelings for me as well. Remember there were signs from her that did indicate genuine love. (writing this actually made me feel a little better because I seemed to have forgotten this fact as well). I would've told my wife to read that book but her English is not very good. I will give it a read.
> 
> I want Mike to be taught a lesson. I will try to explore if there are other options. If not I will call him.


So from everyone's conversation it looks like we have teams going on- team "you can work this out with the right help" and team "you should just leave her". 

I'll tell you what I've told you before do what feels right to you so you don't have regrets 10 years down the line. Everyone is right in their own way but they also don't understand how our culture works either. I understand that it's not easy for you to show her door and it's not because you're a "joru ka ghulam" but it's for us marriage is a very sacred thing and I can tell you genuinely love her. If you wanted to leave her you would have done it a long time back. 

Everyone does have valid points and @Mek chances are she might not have but you need to keep an open mind that she might have had sex with him. You never know. Don't go on that "thanks for the hug" as some kind of truth verifier. No one in their right mind is going to text "hey I enjoyed having sex with you" I mean I don't know if people do that kind of thing. 

I do think everyone has a valid point- she should be held accountable for what she did 100% . I understand that telling her parents is disastrous but I do think that you should tell them because you never know what if someone saw Mike and your wife at the restaurant. You know very well our loves to gossip. So before her parents find out from an outsider about this which will be more shameful for them and which might have dire consequences, let them know. I know exactly how her parents are going to react (I have desi parents). Worst case scenario- her dad will "disown" her and her mom will stop talking to her. But it's better you guys deal with it in the four walls of your home than to let this go public in any way. If it helps call them together let her tell them why all of a sudden you wanted to divorce her but also let them know that you two are putting in the effort to make your marriage work and that you're both working on putting this incident behind you. 

Take the polygraph test but don't tell her in the car because then she can prepare herself on the way there. There are ways to get away with a polygraph. Think of it this way, if she can lie to your face all those months leading up to her trip to India, what makes you think she won't try to fool the polygraph?

Hold her to a much more substantial consequence than to tell her that "or else" if she messes up again. Someone said that you need to lay down the ground rules that her actions will have some degree of consequence. You need to hold her accountable for what she did before you go threatening Mike because if you do that he'll throw the whole thing back at you and tell you "hey man your wife cane running to me" So don't give this guy a chance to embarrass you. 

Also I know you might not want to hear this but from everything that has happened she didn't do all those cute romantic things for you because she genuinely loves you but because she has to love you. If she really did then she would have forgotten about Mike in a heartbeat but the fact that not only did she continued talking to him for 2 years and then plan a trip together means she love(d) him and not you. It's not you it's how stupid our culture is. It's like society expect us girls in an arranged marriage to be madly in love with our husbands the next day and it's like "chill I'm still trying to figure out what this guy likes for breakfast". You have to understand that she didn't get the time to get over Mike before getting married to you so she pretty much bought Mike along with her into the marriage. The fact that she missed him so much means that she still even after all this time has feelings for him. I know she tells you that she loves you but that's because she's taught to do that. The whole idea behind it is if she affectionate towards you and tells you she loves you then you won't have reasons to suspect her. You said it yourself that even your sister deceives her husband and your mom thinks it's okay it's because our society has made it okay. 

This is what you need to do and in this very order-

1. Set down some rules and conditions as to how she can earn your trust back
2. Tell her parents ( you're a smart man I'm sure you'll figure out a way to do it and if she begs and pleads for you not to then tell her exactly what I told you as to why it's important that you do it and that she doesn't get a say in this matter because she's lost that right) 
3. Have her take the polygraph test and tell her when you're near the place or when you're about to enter the room. Don't give her time to prepare herself. 
4. Find a good marriage counselor and find an IC for both of you. 
5. DO NOT HAVE SEX until you can trust her again and you're both in a good place in your marriage. 





Mek said:


> I'm not handling this very well. I can forgive the hug and kiss but she would've had sex? As we have said before, she was high on the emotional affair and didn't THINK about what she was doing. She told me herself she didn't know what she hoped to obtain by doing this. She admits she made terrible mistakes. I will definitely seek help from a marriage counselor because I need it.
> 
> Some things I wanted to point out:
> - "my jaan" is not just something she says to Mike. She says it to me as well.
> - If she had sex with Mike on that day she wouldn't have said "thanks for giving me a hug" on what's app. They were also at a public place. She said Mike's nephew was with them at the time as well in the same restaurant, but his back was towards them and they were hidden. Mike ordered some juice or something but she didn't drink it. There is always a possibility but I think it is highly unlikely. Are polygraphs really accurate? I'll look into taking one just to be at peace about this.
> 
> I told her about how what she did keeps bothering me. She said I know I hurt you a lot. I know what I did was wrong. There is no bigger punishment than regret. I will make everything right. She says she doesn't care about Mike anymore, weather he's living or dead. I said that's what you say now but when the dust settles feelings may return. You have to consciously ignore any feelings for him. She said she will. She offered me to take her phone with me to work, so I did. Her lips started quivering as she realized I didn't trust her (although I did tell her she has to get me to trust her again). She also wants another SIM card so he cant call her number. She says she wants me to delete every number from her phone besides her families numbers.
> 
> I keep bringing up the topic of telling her parents. But she is BEGGING me not to. She said my dad won't be able to handle it and will kill himself. This is the ONLY reason I cant tell them. She said you can tell my sister. Her sister suspected something was up on the day Kate met up with Mike (since Kate was meeting her sister at 12:00). I will definitely tell her sister everything. My mom said maybe Kate can tell her dad that this really was her fault, but don't give the details of what happened. We will see if telling only this much is OK.
> 
> Thor, I believe she does actually have feelings for me as well. Remember there were signs from her that did indicate genuine love. (writing this actually made me feel a little better because I seemed to have forgotten this fact as well). I would've told my wife to read that book but her English is not very good. I will give it a read.
> 
> I want Mike to be taught a lesson. I will try to explore if there are other options. If not I will call him.



Areen


----------



## old red

becareful2 said:


> When she was alone and free to speak her mind, she revealed what was truly in her heart: that Mike was her "my jaan." When she is cornered like a frightened animal, and felt enormous pressure from the fall-out to her family and their reputation, she continued to lie and said she only wants Mek. If the OP rug sweeps this without fleshing out all the facts, it's all on him, and* I also don't buy that somehow this kind of meeting for closure with no sex is understandable given her culture*. When two people are in the throes of passion, culture and ethnicity are thrown out the window. Body chemicals take center stage. If the OP truly loves her, why would he want her to stay? Let her go to be with her "my jaan." She would only be with the OP out of duty and cultural obligation so as to not bring shame on her family. Offer to divorce her and give some ambiguous excuse to the parents like "it just didn't work out or we're not compatible."


Absolutely - many cultures have such huge punishments for adultery because it absolutely does happen. The cultures may be different, but our biology/drives is/are the same. I would be getting her to prove to me that it wasn't physical.


----------



## drifting on

Laurens1122 said:


> Why does everyone thinks Kate did more than hug and kiss the guy? They weren't alone long enough to do anything more than that. Mek seems to have gotten the truth from her so I think the best thing they can do is seek marriage counseling to resolve this issue, not divorce Kate. Take what everyone is telling you on here with a grain of salt because some people are pretty harsh with their replies and do what feels right for you. I think the MC will be great for you both to move past this issue. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Laurens1142

I ask you this question genuinely, but how exactly do you know, or presume to know that Mek has gotten the truth? Furthermore, with all the lying she did when Mek knew she was trying to meet, how do you know they didn't have enough time to meet? Mek has said they were in the same town, they were communicating admitting to seeing each other from afar, then communication stops. Do you think maybe communication stopped because they were together? Together long enough to have coffee and meet for over a half hour? You don't think they could have been together for another half hour to have sex? Remember, according to her the whole trip was secretly planned to meet Mike under the pretense of getting her transcripts. That alone is very severe, but then she admits to a hug and a kiss, and Mek cannot verify her entire time there. 

Your post, while advocating her innocence, is to take her at her word and get MC. Finding the correct MC as said before is critical, otherwise further harm will come to Mek. Taking her at her word that it was only a hug and a kiss is the most foolish act Mek could make. She has repeatedly lied to Mek, and she isn't showing remorse, she is showing regret but I question that too. No, I'm not questioning because of my betrayal I went through, I'm questioning because I don't know what she regrets. Does she regret getting caught? Does she regret lying? Does she regret having sex with Mike? Does she regret she didn't get more time with Mike? Now I'll even take this one step further that I think may pose a problem, and you let me know what you think. Since Mek caught her, and presuming she didn't have sex, do you see resentment beginning to consume her because Mek prevented her from having sex with Mike? The person she really does love? This is why I have a problem with your post and also why your post is of no help to Mek. 

Infidelity brings many nuances that have to be delved through with a fine toothed comb. Accepting the waywards confession without verifying is actually reckless to the health of the betrayed. If Mek cannot verify then he needs to prepare for the worst. The fact this entire trip was planned to meet Mike, I find it absolutely ridiculous to say that they met bug didn't have sex. Believing her word on this would be detrimental to yourself, so Mek must verify her whereabouts, possibly by calling her family and finding how much time she wasn't in their company. Then Mek can question his wife as to where she was during these times. We already know where a half hour was spent don't we?


----------



## Thor

areenhaque26 said:


> Also I know you might not want to hear this but from everything that has happened she didn't do all those cute romantic things for you because she genuinely loves you but because she has to love you. If she really did then she would have forgotten about Mike in a heartbeat but the fact that not only did she continued talking to him for 2 years and then plan a trip together means she love(d) him and not you. *It's not you it's how stupid our culture is. It's like society expect us girls in an arranged marriage to be madly in love with our husbands the next day and it's like "chill I'm still trying to figure out what this guy likes for breakfast". You have to understand that she didn't get the time to get over Mike before getting married to you so she pretty much bought Mike along with her into the marriage. *The fact that she missed him so much means that she still even after all this time has feelings for him. I know she tells you that she loves you but that's because she's taught to do that. The whole idea behind it is if she affectionate towards you and tells you she loves you then you won't have reasons to suspect her. You said it yourself that even your sister deceives her husband and your mom thinks it's okay it's because our society has made it okay.


This really isn't so different than western culture which teaches girls to marry for practical reasons. Find the man who is a good financial provider and will be a stable father to your children. Many women, especially more recently, will be wild (sexually) until they decide to settle down with a boring good provider husband. Even if they don't do the wild promiscuity thing, many women still settle for someone who is less exciting than other men they've dated.

And they bring that into the marriage. They secretly pine away for some other man. Recently a published study showed more than half of women fantasize about a previous lover while having sex with their husband!

In my marriage, my ex-wife kept a torch burning for one of her exes for 30 years!

From my personal experience, I can say that a husband can accept his wife had previous loves and previous lovers. As long as she has completely cut all emotional ties it is ok. But when she still has feelings for a previous man it poisons the marriage. First, she is not loyal to her husband. Second, the man is a threat to the marriage (the most common affair partner is an ex-bf). Third, the husband's psyche is being damaged with the knowledge she is still holding onto love for the other man.

Anyhow, American culture definitely promotes situations which can end up in the same place as your culture does.


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## areenhaque26

Thor said:


> This really isn't so different than western culture which teaches girls to marry for practical reasons. Find the man who is a good financial provider and will be a stable father to your children. Many women, especially more recently, will be wild (sexually) until they decide to settle down with a boring good provider husband. Even if they don't do the wild promiscuity thing, many women still settle for someone who is less exciting than other men they've dated.
> 
> And they bring that into the marriage. They secretly pine away for some other man. Recently a published study showed more than half of women fantasize about a previous lover while having sex with their husband!
> 
> In my marriage, my ex-wife kept a torch burning for one of her exes for 30 years!
> 
> From my personal experience, I can say that a husband can accept his wife had previous loves and previous lovers. As long as she has completely cut all emotional ties it is ok. But when she still has feelings for a previous man it poisons the marriage. First, she is not loyal to her husband. Second, the man is a threat to the marriage (the most common affair partner is an ex-bf). Third, the husband's psyche is being damaged with the knowledge she is still holding onto love for the other man.
> 
> Anyhow, American culture definitely promotes situations which can end up in the same place as your culture does.


Same with us too. We are advised to settle with someone who has a good job so they can provide for us financially but regardless of why someone gets married, they don't have the right to hurt another human being like that or ruin their lives. The way I see it unless a gun was being held to your head you can walk away from a wedding that you're not interested in rather than get married and destroy everything. 

Areen


----------



## Duguesclin

Mek,

You wish you had a loving and trusting relationship with your wife. But how can you?

From what I read from your posts, your wife comes from a poor family. She does not seem to come with easily transferable skills in Canada. Therefore her cash generating abilities are low. So I conclude the only reason you two are married is because of her looks.

This puts her in a very precarious position. If you two divorce, she will lose a lot. You will not. So how can she trust you?

Because of the power you have over her, building a trusting relationship should start with you, not her. If not, I predict your marriage will remain an arranged marriage where trust will be limited. 

It could change if your wife succeeds to build enough power to be able to lead the marriage. By that I mean she takes responsibility to take care of you, reassure you, and build a trusting relationship with you. Right now I do not see you able to take those responsibilities. So it will fall to her if the marriage is to succeed.

One last point concerns me for her. What will you do if you two cannot conceive? Will it be grounds for divorce?


----------



## SunCMars

CynthiaDe said:


> That's some pretty serious determination to do what she wanted to do come hell or high water. She had her mind set on Mike. This is not good. *And now she is continuing to advance her agenda by asking you to let her lie to her parents.*
> 
> What is your plan? After she contacts Mike to tell him "good-bye forever" are you going to contact Mike and tell him to stay the hell away from your wife? (Don't threaten him - especially in writing.)


Good point.

The lying stops now.

I strongly believe that we need to throw this Indian Elephant on the back of the parents.

It is THE PARENTS WHO ARRANGED THIS MARRIAGE. IT IS THE PARENTS WHO "OWN' THIS. Much of it. Not all.

They believe that their culture is best, is superior to....a man and a women choosing a partner WITHOUT PARENTAL STRICT OVERSIGHT.

OK, how did that work out? But why, my fellow TAMMERS shield *the parents* *FROM THEIR OWN CULPABILITY*in this.

*These old, Gray Sages. These old farts who did this, need to HELP fix this.
*
If I told one of my adult children that they are going marry the neighbor kid, and the marriage went belly-up in the first year...........do I blame the two adult children? Of course, when there is lying and deceiving involved, as is the case here. But not the bulk of the blame. No, Sir.

But I would also have to blame myself and *MY PICKER, my Customs and approach to life*. Ain't gonna happen! 

Shame, Shame!

The parents needed to do their homework first. The wife's parents should have sat her down and discussed whether she thought this was a good idea [marrying Mek]. Her parents knew about Mikey Mike. They knew that he had strong feelings for her, and she for him. They rejected Mike, they rejected their daughters feelings.

*They discounted her feelings. How freaking Noble of Them.* They commanded her to ignore her own deep seated love for Sri Mike. She could not, did not. 

I am positive she will try to make this up to Mek. * She will dutifully do her duty... and that duty will fill Mek and her with false hope. Her culture will bow her wayward inclinations. It will attempt to break her down...again. She dared stand up. She threw caution to the wind. She wanted to be with her lover...at least one more time.

Will both set of parents be so wise as to make it up to Mek and his wife?[help repair the damage]* Or will they come down like a ton of bricks on the wife. The wife lied. She deceived her husband. She would have had sex with Mke if Mek had not confronted her.

Nope, the parents will have righteous Indignation, shame, maybe more heart attacks. They will shift the blame to the adult children....Mek and Mrs. Mek. Mrs. Mek will get the brunt of this. She was the culprit here. But she is a women in love. In love with another man. 

Her heart was taken before she met Mek. She knew it, her parents knew. And her parents told her to shut her heart down. Stop those loving beats for Mike. Concentrate on your future with Mek. 

They told her:
"Oh, Dear..........enjoy your loveless marriage. I hope it gets better. If it does not, well, all Punjabi women have to go through this. It is best for you. Love means nothing. Love does not put food on your table. Love does not help your parents. We need you to carry us in our old age. This "arranged marriage" is best for you and for us".

Suck it up.


First off, arranged marriages are a form of Russian Roulette. More so than regular marriages [Western]. Yes, the finances and family situation is likely going to be in a better spot with arranged marriages. The love and the chemistry is not. Those old sages will say that love comes later. WTF....... When that wife is being made love to by her husband and she looks at the man trying to make her enjoy this, without love or strong physical attraction she will have her regrets. This is cruel to her and to him. He too, may feel no attachment to her, other than lust. Lust is ephemeral. It does not "sticky" around long.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Duguesclin said:


> Mek,
> 
> You wish you had a loving and trusting relationship with your wife. But how can you?
> 
> From what I read from your posts, your wife comes from a poor family. She does not seem to come with easily transferable skills in Canada. Therefore her cash generating abilities are low. So I conclude the only reason you two are married is because of her looks.
> 
> This puts her in a very precarious position. If you two divorce, she will lose a lot. You will not. *So how can she trust you?*
> 
> Because of the power you have over her, building a trusting relationship should start with you, not her. If not, I predict your marriage will remain an arranged marriage where trust will be limited.
> 
> It could change if your wife succeeds to build enough power to be able to lead the marriage. By that I mean she takes responsibility to take care of you, reassure you, and build a trusting relationship with you. Right now I do not see you able to take those responsibilities. So it will fall to her if the marriage is to succeed.
> 
> One last point concerns me for her. What will you do if you two cannot conceive? Will it be grounds for divorce?


Let me see if I'm understanding you Dug. You're saying that because she brings nothing to the table other than her looks and her womb, _she_ can't trust _Mek_? And this is somehow _Mek's_ fault? And _Mek_ is going to have to earn _her_ trust? Is that what you're saying?


----------



## Andy1001

Duguesclin said:


> Mek,
> 
> You wish you had a loving and trusting relationship with your wife. But how can you?
> 
> From what I read from your posts, your wife comes from a poor family. She does not seem to come with easily transferable skills in Canada. Therefore her cash generating abilities are low. So I conclude the only reason you two are married is because of her looks.
> 
> This puts her in a very precarious position. If you two divorce, she will lose a lot. You will not. So how can she trust you?
> 
> Because of the power you have over her, building a trusting relationship should start with you, not her. If not, I predict your marriage will remain an arranged marriage where trust will be limited.
> 
> It could change if your wife succeeds to build enough power to be able to lead the marriage. By that I mean she takes responsibility to take care of you, reassure you, and build a trusting relationship with you. Right now I do not see you able to take those responsibilities. So it will fall to her if the marriage is to succeed.
> 
> One last point concerns me for her. What will you do if you two cannot conceive? Will it be grounds for divorce?


Dug, in normal circumstances this would be considered reasonable,well thought out advice.Have you not read the original post or are you just pontificating.You have made no mention of her lying,deceitful behaviour.This is an unbelievable statement for you to make and I am astonished by it.


----------



## Blondilocks

Nucking Futs said:


> Let me see if I'm understanding you Dug. You're saying that because she brings nothing to the table other than her looks and her womb, _she_ can't trust _Mek_? And this is somehow _Mek's_ fault? And _Mek_ is going to have to earn _her_ trust? Is that what you're saying?


Don't try to understand the reasoning. :wink2: Consider the source.


----------



## drifting on

Duguesclin said:


> Mek,
> 
> You wish you had a loving and trusting relationship with your wife. But how can you?
> 
> From what I read from your posts, your wife comes from a poor family. She does not seem to come with easily transferable skills in Canada. Therefore her cash generating abilities are low. So I conclude the only reason you two are married is because of her looks.
> 
> This puts her in a very precarious position. If you two divorce, she will lose a lot. You will not. So how can she trust you?
> 
> Because of the power you have over her, building a trusting relationship should start with you, not her. If not, I predict your marriage will remain an arranged marriage where trust will be limited.
> 
> It could change if your wife succeeds to build enough power to be able to lead the marriage. By that I mean she takes responsibility to take care of you, reassure you, and build a trusting relationship with you. Right now I do not see you able to take those responsibilities. So it will fall to her if the marriage is to succeed.
> 
> One last point concerns me for her. What will you do if you two cannot conceive? Will it be grounds for divorce?




Speechless. After all she has done, you blame Mek? Purely dumbfounded by this post.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Speechless. After all she has done, you blame Mek? Purely dumbfounded by this post.


Is everyone new here? As sure as I will always advocate for moving on these two will always blame the man. Water is wet, the sun will set in the west. 

Like the other poster said consider the source.


----------



## Cynthia

sokillme said:


> Is everyone new here? As sure as I will always advocate for moving on these two will always blame the man. Water is wet, the sun will set in the west.
> 
> Like the other poster said consider the source.


Mek is new. It is good for people to respond to Duguesclin, so that Mek gets the heads up that Duguesclin's posts often blame the man for anything that goes wrong in the relationship, including his wife being unfaithful. Jld is Duguesclin’s wife and she will likely come to the thread to back up her husband’s statements and explain how Dr. Gottman’s research backs this up. Personally I respect Dr. Gottman, but I don’t agree with their interpretation of his message.

This is not your fault, Mek. This is on your wife 100%. You do not need to take responsibility for building trust in your relationship to make up for what your wife has done. It is your wife’s job to restore the trust she has destroyed.


----------



## sokillme

CynthiaDe said:


> Mek is new. It is good for people to respond to Duguesclin, so that Mek gets the heads up that Duguesclin's posts often blame the man for anything that goes wrong in the relationship, including his wife being unfaithful. Jld is Duguesclin’s wife and she will likely come to the thread to back up her husband’s statements and explain how Dr. Gottman’s research backs this up. Personally I respect Dr. Gottman, but I don’t agree with their interpretation of his message.
> 
> This is not your fault, Mek. This is on your wife 100%. You do not need to take responsibility for building trust in your relationship to make up for what your wife has done. It is your wife’s job to restore the trust she has destroyed.


You're absolutely right.


----------



## Andy1001

CynthiaDe said:


> Mek is new. It is good for people to respond to Duguesclin, so that Mek gets the heads up that Duguesclin's posts often blame the man for anything that goes wrong in the relationship, including his wife being unfaithful. Jld is Duguesclin’s wife and she will likely come to the thread to back up her husband’s statements and explain how Dr. Gottman’s research backs this up. Personally I respect Dr. Gottman, but I don’t agree with their interpretation of his message.
> 
> This is not your fault, Mek. This is on your wife 100%. You do not need to take responsibility for building trust in your relationship to make up for what your wife has done. It is your wife’s job to restore the trust she has destroyed.


I for one would really love to know how anyone can blame Mek for his wife's behaviour.He is looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights right now but this whole situation was his wife's doing.
It seems that Jld and Dug are considered some sort of tag team,ganging up on men all the time.I haven't seen it myself but I would be interested as to how this whole sorry affair can be construed as mek's fault.


----------



## Duguesclin

drifting on said:


> Speechless. After all she has done, you blame Mek? Purely dumbfounded by this post.


What she did is not right. But Mek wants her to trust him. I am simply saying it is not possible. 

He will bring her to submission. She seems to be smart and she realizes that her economical future is probably better with Mek than with Mike. But realizing this does not mean she will be able to trust him. And because she will not be able to trust him, he will not trust her.

He needs to stop pretending. If he wants to trust her, he will have to make the relationship more "equal". Right now, he has all the cards. She has nothing.

He is right to want a healthy relationship with her. But right now the ingredients are not there for it to happen. 

She obviously has some issues. Issues that are the bread and butter of Bollywood movies. He wished to be the hero of that movie, but he is the villain. The hearts are with Mike and Mek's wife.

It may seem unfair, but what touches the heart is not buying your wife. It is true love stories. And when I read Mek's story, I cannot help but think of the Bollywood (Mumbai) or Kollywood (Chennai) movies I saw when I was living in India.


----------



## Andy1001

Duguesclin said:


> What she did is not right. But Mek wants her to trust him. I am simply saying it is not possible.
> 
> He will bring her to submission. She seems to be smart and she realizes that her economical future is probably better with Mek than with Mike. But realizing this does not mean she will be able to trust him. And because she will not be able to trust him, he will not trust her.
> 
> He needs to stop pretending. If he wants to trust her, he will have to make the relationship more "equal". Right now, he has all the cards. She has nothing.
> 
> He is right to want a healthy relationship with her. But right now the ingredients are not there for it to happen.
> 
> She obviously has some issues. Issues that are the bread and butter of Bollywood movies. He wished to be the hero of that movie, but he is the villain. The hearts are with Mike and Mek's wife.
> 
> It may seem unfair, but what touches the heart is not buying your wife. It is true love stories. And when I read Mek's story, I cannot help but think of the Bollywood (Mumbai) or Kollywood (Chennai) movies I saw when I was living in India.


How would you suggest he makes the relationship more equal.Are you talking financially or am I missing the point.I really would like to know how you think he can get her to trust him.


----------



## manwithnoname

Duguesclin said:


> What she did is not right. But Mek wants her to trust him. I am simply saying it is not possible.
> 
> He will bring her to submission. She seems to be smart and she realizes that her economical future is probably better with Mek than with Mike. But realizing this does not mean she will be able to trust him. And because she will not be able to trust him, he will not trust her.
> 
> He needs to stop pretending. If he wants to trust her, he will have to make the relationship more "equal". Right now, he has all the cards. She has nothing.
> 
> He is right to want a healthy relationship with her. But right now the ingredients are not there for it to happen.
> 
> She obviously has some issues. Issues that are the bread and butter of Bollywood movies. He wished to be the hero of that movie, but he is the villain. The hearts are with Mike and Mek's wife.
> 
> It may seem unfair, but what touches the heart is not buying your wife. It is true love stories. And when I read Mek's story, I cannot help but think of the Bollywood (Mumbai) or Kollywood (Chennai) movies I saw when I was living in India.





Am I missing something? Mek didn't break her trust, she broke his. And FYI it's not a Bollywood movie, Mek is the one who was wronged. He doesn't want to be the hero, he just wants a loyal wife you doesn't keep secrets or lust over an old flame.


----------



## Duguesclin

Mek,

I lived in India for 4 years. Although I never dealt with Sikhs (I was in the South), I had plenty of interaction with various people as I work in manufacturing.

I heard many stories like yours. We had a lady helping my wife and kids in the house. She could not understand the concept of love marriage. To her, it was only in movies and it did not end well for the girl.

You cannot look at your situation with Canadian eyes, but must look through the eyes of your culture. You should seek advice from your elders. Your situation, in the context of your culture, does not warrant a divorce. 

It is actually amazing and would be a great subject for a movie. Poor girl in love with Mike but accept to marry Mek, the wealthy NRI (non-resident Indian), for the sake of her family. She remains a virgin for him but cannot remove Mike from her mind. She goes back to India to see Mike one last time and wants to make sure her true love can move on and find happiness.

I can see a lot of girls crying in the overheated theaters.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Blondilocks

@MEM2020, please put down the NYTimes crossword puzzle and interject some sanity into this thread.


----------



## Duguesclin

manwithnoname said:


> Am I missing something? Mek didn't break her trust, she broke his. And FYI it's not a Bollywood movie, Mek is the one who was wronged. He doesn't want to be the hero, he just wants a loyal wife you doesn't keep secrets or lust over an old flame.


Let me explain what I saw in India about what we call in the western world "trust" or "deception" or "lying".

My dear friend A, the first person I hired in India, was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor a few years ago. I was already back in the US. Can you believe I was made aware of his situation before A was? 

Here is another example. One day I was sitting in my son's oncologist's office. My son developed leukemia while we were living there and we had him treated him a few hours from my work. While we were in his doctor's office, the doctor received a call. It was the husband of one of his patients. From the conversation I could understand the lady had a relapse and her chances of survival were nil. The doctor and the husband agreed, in front of me, my wife, and my son, that they would not tell the poor lady the truth.

We may see this in our western eyes as appalling. But to my Indian colleagues it was normal. They felt the husband and the doctor were working in the best interest of the woman. Why burdening her even more with a desperate fate?

I believe this is Mek's cultural context.


----------



## MEM2020

Blond,
LOL

Puzzle down. 

At what page in the thread should I begin reading. And yes it is a given I will also read the OP's first few posts for context. It is kind of a longish thread though, so if this is a 'last 3' kind of request, my response time will be faster. 







Blondilocks said:


> @MEM2020, please put down the NYTimes crossword puzzle and interject some sanity into this thread.


----------



## Duguesclin

Andy1001 said:


> How would you suggest he makes the relationship more equal.Are you talking financially or am I missing the point.I really would like to know how you think he can get her to trust him.


In the context of this arranged marriage, I do not think trust, as we define it in our western culture, is possible. To make it happen, he would have to embrace equality. The fact that he chose an arranged marriage with a good-looking, poor girl tells me he is not ready for that.

He needs to resolve his problem within the context of his culture. Seeking advice from TAM is counterproductive. It is seeking to hold his wife to a standard that she does not understand and has not agreed to. 

Seeking sympathy here is not going to solve his problems and is going to lead him to the wrong conclusions. His wife is not evil. What she did in our culture is probably wrong but I do not think it is that wrong, or at least unknown, in the Indian culture. Man of la Mancha has it correct. She has a lot to deal with.

I am sure his wife's parents have advised her to make it work. She is likely to comply. At the end of the day, this is all Mek needs.


----------



## mary35

Be careful, Mek, as you wade through all the advice you receive. Be wary of absolute statements about past behavior that is really just conjecture. It's wise to understand that there is a possibility you still don't have all the truth yet. It also may be wise to do some more digging and verifying if your gut tells you there is more. But unless/until conjecture is proven to be reality - it should not play a factor in your decisions, in my opinion. 

Also be leery of pessimistic remarks and understand there is more than one way to look at things. You can choose to look at your situation with an optimistic lens instead. No one can predict the future The past has happened and can not be undone and has to be dealt with. However, because the future is not written yet, what you and your wife do in the here and now can have a greater influence than the past - on how the future will unfold. Both you and your wife will have to do things very differently and work very hard in the here and now - so that a positive future for your marriage can unfold. 

You, Mek, have control over half of the marriage equation. Your wife has control over the other half. It will take both of your efforts - you both taking care of your own parts while also working together side by side - to fix your very troubled marriage and to turn it around into a healthy happy one! Neither of you can fix it by yourself - BUT it only takes one of you to make it fail. Because of this fact - even if you do everything you can do to try to build a positive future for your marriage - if your wife does not cooperate your marriage will still fail. 

There are no guarantees your wife will change, not guarantees that she will do the work she needs to do, no guarantees that she will be able to let go of Mike completely. She has shown you a side of her that is quite ugly, and not trustworthy at all. So yes, giving her another chance is painfully risky.

Only you can decide if you are willing to take the risk of investing more of yourself in a marriage with her. If you decide you are - and go in with your eyes wide opened, understanding the risk - you are not rug sweeping in any way. You are simply making a choice to give your marriage and your wife another chance in spite of the risks.


----------



## 225985

Blondilocks said:


> @MEM2020, please put down the NYTimes crossword puzzle and interject some sanity into this thread.




I only saw this post and immediately knew what the problem was. Imagine that.


----------



## areenhaque26

Duguesclin said:


> Let me explain what I saw in India about what we call in the western world "trust" or "deception" or "lying".
> 
> My dear friend A, the first person I hired in India, was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor a few years ago. I was already back in the US. Can you believe I was made aware of his situation before A was?
> 
> Here is another example. One day I was sitting in my son's oncologist's office. My son developed leukemia while we were living there and we had him treated him a few hours from my work. While we were in his doctor's office, the doctor received a call. It was the husband of one of his patients. From the conversation I could understand the lady had a relapse and her chances of survival were nil. The doctor and the husband agreed, in front of me, my wife, and my son, that they would not tell the poor lady the truth.
> 
> We may see this in our western eyes as appalling. But to my Indian colleagues it was normal. They felt the husband and the doctor were working in the best interest of the woman. Why burdening her even more with a desperate fate?
> 
> I believe this is Mek's cultural context.


No it's not. Our culture doesn't teach us to lie but society does. The example you gave makes no sense. They didn't hide the truth from her because of cultural norm but out of respect for her and not to hurt her. You don't think she knew herself that she was dying? You said it yourself that your son was dealing with leukemia. So for arguments sake let's take out the wife and put your son in her place and it was the same exact situation, would you have sat him down and told him that his chances of surviving were zero and that he might die anytime soon because he deserves the truth?

Also for those of you who are categorizing all of us girls who are in an arranged marriage like we're some kind of victim- DON'T. Most of us do it by choice and we're happy with our decision. Yes there are some girls out there where the decision is imposed on them I'm not going to deny that but to say that each and everyone of us are somehow suffering. 

I'm in an arranged marriage. I talked to my husband for 2 months before getting married and I couldn't have been happier. My parents have an arranged marriage and their love for each other is what it was 30 years ago. Two of my female cousins had an arranged marriage and their husbands are the nicest guys you'll meet and both of them are happy with their lives. True we don't love our s/o before getting married but you eventually do fall in love and no it's not some forced thing. 

Someone mentioned it on here that we Indians don't see marriage as some kind of Disney fairytale. If you think about it every Disney movie ends with them getting married it doesn't show life after getting married. Marriage isn't being madly in love (I mean that's a plus) marriage is making sacrifices for each other because you want the other person to be happy. Marriage is taking care of each other and helping each other grow as individuals and as couples. Marriage is helping your s/o achieve their goals because their goals and aspirations are your goals and aspirations. Let me give you a real life example- my bro-in-law has put his life on hold and is working 2 jobs just so my cousin can get her cosmetology license.

Also stop making @Mek's wife look like a victim. She knew exactly what she was doing from the getgo. She talked to the guy for two months before getting married so no her parents didn't force her into it. I do strongly believe (given their financial background) that she got emotionally blackmailed into it but hey if she could plan a whole trip from Canada to India to see Mike then she could have ran away with him. Did she not think of her parents' reputation when she was in public with Mike kissing him? It's not like they met up in a city where no one would know them? What if someone did run into her or she got caught? She said it herself that Mike's nephew was there. What if he had turned around and saw them? yes her parents would commit suicide than have to live with the shame forever. So no @Mek doesn't owe her ****. He has done more than any typical punjabi husband would. The fact that he has let her back into the house is more than enough.

Areen


----------



## aine

areenhaque26 said:


> Same with us too. We are advised to settle with someone who has a good job so they can provide for us financially but regardless of why someone gets married, they don't have the right to hurt another human being like that or ruin their lives. The way I see it unless a gun was being held to your head you can walk away from a wedding that you're not interested in rather than get married and destroy everything.
> 
> Areen


I am western, but very familiar with the punjabi culture and all that entails. Marriage is sacred to many westerners too (particularly if they are practicing Christians). The fact is that adultery is universal, the correct response to it is also universal. Rug sweeping is a big aspect of Punjabi culture but that will not solve the problem. Telling the parents according to her will result in so called drama of the father killing himself, disowning her, etc these are consequences and she should face them if she is serious about making amends with Mek. That is the price to pay for cheating.


----------



## areenhaque26

aine said:


> I am western, but very familiar with the punjabi culture and all that entails. Marriage is sacred to many westerners too (particularly if they are practicing Christians). The fact is that adultery is universal, the correct response to it is also universal. Rug sweeping is a big aspect of Punjabi culture but that will not solve the problem. Telling the parents according to her will result in so called drama of the father killing himself, disowning her, etc these are consequences and she should face them if she is serious about making amends with Mek. That is the price to pay for cheating.


Exactly. They're going to find out eventually. My mom says it "no deed (good or bad) stays hidden" also the parents are much to blame as much as her. They could have told mek and his family about Mike vaguely if they were seated that too much details might deter the proposal. The way I see it Mek's wife and her family have no choice but to deal with it. 

Areen


----------



## sokillme

Duguesclin said:


> What she did is not right. But Mek wants her to trust him. I am simply saying it is not possible.
> 
> He will bring her to submission. She seems to be smart and she realizes that her economical future is probably better with Mek than with Mike. But realizing this does not mean she will be able to trust him. And because she will not be able to trust him, he will not trust her.
> 
> He needs to stop pretending. If he wants to trust her, he will have to make the relationship more "equal". Right now, he has all the cards. She has nothing.
> 
> He is right to want a healthy relationship with her. But right now the ingredients are not there for it to happen.
> 
> She obviously has some issues. Issues that are the bread and butter of Bollywood movies. He wished to be the hero of that movie, but he is the villain. The hearts are with Mike and Mek's wife.
> 
> It may seem unfair, but what touches the heart is not buying your wife. It is true love stories. And when I read Mek's story, I cannot help but think of the Bollywood (Mumbai) or Kollywood (Chennai) movies I saw when I was living in India.


How about she tells him the truth first before we say he holds are the cards. Shesh.:slap:


----------



## sokillme

Duguesclin said:


> Mek,
> 
> I lived in India for 4 years. Although I never dealt with Sikhs (I was in the South), I had plenty of interaction with various people as I work in manufacturing.
> 
> I heard many stories like yours. We had a lady helping my wife and kids in the house. She could not understand the concept of love marriage. To her, it was only in movies and it did not end well for the girl.
> 
> You cannot look at your situation with Canadian eyes, but must look through the eyes of your culture. You should seek advice from your elders. Your situation, in the context of your culture, does not warrant a divorce.
> 
> It is actually amazing and would be a great subject for a movie. Poor girl in love with Mike but accept to marry Mek, the wealthy NRI (non-resident Indian), for the sake of her family. She remains a virgin for him but cannot remove Mike from her mind. She goes back to India to see Mike one last time and wants to make sure her true love can move on and find happiness.
> 
> I can see a lot of girls crying in the overheated theaters.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


You are so not helping as usual.


----------



## sokillme

mary35 said:


> You, Mek, have control over half of the marriage equation.


He has control of nothing without the truth.


----------



## Duguesclin

areenhaque26 said:


> No it's not. Our culture doesn't teach us to lie but society does. The example you gave makes no sense. They didn't hide the truth from her because of cultural norm but out of respect for her and not to hurt her. You don't think she knew herself that she was dying? You said it yourself that your son was dealing with leukemia. So for arguments sake let's take out the wife and put your son in her place and it was the same exact situation, would you have sat him down and told him that his chances of surviving were zero and that he might die anytime soon because he deserves the truth?


Areen, you are making my point for me. Please realize that in the western culture, not telling an adult she is dying is viewed as lying to her or concealing the truth from her. I am not placing a judgment. I am simply trying to point out some cultural differences.

As far as my son is concerned, he did know when he was diagnosed that he at 10 years old had cancer and his survival chances were 50%. His 8 year old Indian neighbor in the next room with the same diagnosis was just told she had a "virus". 

When our son relapsed more than 3 years later, he was told he had only 25% chance to make it. He knows that if his cancer comes back, he is likely not going to survive. We do not lie to him nor to ourselves about it.



areenhaque26 said:


> Also for those of you who are categorizing all of us girls who are in an arranged marriage like we're some kind of victim- DON'T. Most of us do it by choice and we're happy with our decision. Yes there are some girls out there where the decision is imposed on them I'm not going to deny that but to say that each and everyone of us are somehow suffering.


I am not against arranged marriages. I think they make a lot of sense in some contexts. But we also need to be honest. Many girls are taken advantage of.

As long as Mek's wife stays in line, gives him great sex and has healthy kids, she will be fine. If somehow she is not able to conceive, that may be a different story. Mek will get to decide.

The sad part in this story is that Mek has full control of his future, regardless of his wife. Hers is dependent on how she performs, and his goodwill toward her.



areenhaque26 said:


> I'm in an arranged marriage. I talked to my husband for 2 months before getting married and I couldn't have been happier. My parents have an arranged marriage and their love for each other is what it was 30 years ago. Two of my female cousins had an arranged marriage and their husbands are the nicest guys you'll meet and both of them are happy with their lives. True we don't love our s/o before getting married but you eventually do fall in love and no it's not some forced thing.
> 
> Someone mentioned it on here that we Indians don't see marriage as some kind of Disney fairytale. If you think about it every Disney movie ends with them getting married it doesn't show life after getting married. Marriage isn't being madly in love (I mean that's a plus) marriage is making sacrifices for each other because you want the other person to be happy. Marriage is taking care of each other and helping each other grow as individuals and as couples. Marriage is helping your s/o achieve their goals because their goals and aspirations are your goals and aspirations. Let me give you a real life example- my bro-in-law has put his life on hold and is working 2 jobs just so my cousin can get her cosmetology license.
> 
> Also stop making @Mek's wife look like a victim. She knew exactly what she was doing from the getgo. She talked to the guy for two months before getting married so no her parents didn't force her into it. I do strongly believe (given their financial background) that she got emotionally blackmailed into it but hey if she could plan a whole trip from Canada to India to see Mike then she could have ran away with him. Did she not think of her parents' reputation when she was in public with Mike kissing him? It's not like they met up in a city where no one would know them? What if someone did run into her or she got caught? She said it herself that Mike's nephew was there. What if he had turned around and saw them? yes her parents would commit suicide than have to live with the shame forever. So no @Mek doesn't owe her ****. He has done more than any typical punjabi husband would. The fact that he has let her back into the house is more than enough.
> 
> Areen


Of course she knew what she was doing. It does not make her a lesser victim. She has had her heart broken and it takes time to heal. She seems committed to do it. This makes it easier for Mek.

But let's not pretend he is going to have an organically loving and trusting relationship. It will take a lot of growing on his part before it can truly happen.


----------



## sokillme

Duguesclin said:


> The sad part in this story is that Mek has full control of his future, regardless of his wife. Hers is dependent on how she performs, and his goodwill toward her.


Yeah this is the sad part.


----------



## drifting on

areenhaque26 said:


> No it's not. Our culture doesn't teach us to lie but society does. The example you gave makes no sense. They didn't hide the truth from her because of cultural norm but out of respect for her and not to hurt her. You don't think she knew herself that she was dying? You said it yourself that your son was dealing with leukemia. So for arguments sake let's take out the wife and put your son in her place and it was the same exact situation, would you have sat him down and told him that his chances of surviving were zero and that he might die anytime soon because he deserves the truth?
> 
> Also for those of you who are categorizing all of us girls who are in an arranged marriage like we're some kind of victim- DON'T. Most of us do it by choice and we're happy with our decision. Yes there are some girls out there where the decision is imposed on them I'm not going to deny that but to say that each and everyone of us are somehow suffering.
> 
> I'm in an arranged marriage. I talked to my husband for 2 months before getting married and I couldn't have been happier. My parents have an arranged marriage and their love for each other is what it was 30 years ago. Two of my female cousins had an arranged marriage and their husbands are the nicest guys you'll meet and both of them are happy with their lives. True we don't love our s/o before getting married but you eventually do fall in love and no it's not some forced thing.
> 
> Someone mentioned it on here that we Indians don't see marriage as some kind of Disney fairytale. If you think about it every Disney movie ends with them getting married it doesn't show life after getting married. Marriage isn't being madly in love (I mean that's a plus) marriage is making sacrifices for each other because you want the other person to be happy. Marriage is taking care of each other and helping each other grow as individuals and as couples. Marriage is helping your s/o achieve their goals because their goals and aspirations are your goals and aspirations. Let me give you a real life example- my bro-in-law has put his life on hold and is working 2 jobs just so my cousin can get her cosmetology license.
> 
> Also stop making @Mek's wife look like a victim. She knew exactly what she was doing from the getgo. She talked to the guy for two months before getting married so no her parents didn't force her into it. I do strongly believe (given their financial background) that she got emotionally blackmailed into it but hey if she could plan a whole trip from Canada to India to see Mike then she could have ran away with him. Did she not think of her parents' reputation when she was in public with Mike kissing him? It's not like they met up in a city where no one would know them? What if someone did run into her or she got caught? She said it herself that Mike's nephew was there. What if he had turned around and saw them? yes her parents would commit suicide than have to live with the shame forever. So no @Mek doesn't owe her ****. He has done more than any typical punjabi husband would. The fact that he has let her back into the house is more than enough.
> 
> Areen




Admittedly, I am ignorant to the cultures that are being discussed on this thread. However, you appear to know very much of this culture and way of life. To me it is confusing, so I have questions that you may think are either dumb or stupid. But since you know the culture, about arranged marriages, I'm hoping you can answer these questions so I better understand and can give Mek better advice or things to think about. 

You say that the parents will indeed commit suicide of the shame. Understanding the fog in affairs I get, but how do you consciously plan a trip to your hometown, knowing your parents will commit suicide and meet to have an affair go physical? This to me is just mind boggling. I understand her wanting to cheat, the fog she is in, but for heavens sake she knows what her parents will do. If I were Mek I would tell her I'm taking a full page add or placing on a billboard that she had an affair with Mike. That's a consequence for making a very poor choice. Chips fall where they may, and yes I was cruel to my own wife. 

Arranged marriages, did you love someone before you married, did you want to meet him to wish him well? From my understanding and what I deal with on a daily basis, Indian hatred towards somebody is very cruel. Now this may be because I deal with not so pleasant people, but their hatred is intense. Almost a kill or be killed. So Mek's wife meeting Mike in public, with a supposed witness (not sure I'm falling for that) in his nephew, why meet? Will mikes parents kill themselves too? If yes, hello newspaper ad and billboard!! 

Do you currently live in India now? I ask because what would happen to someone who is cheating there? In an arranged marriage is cheating common? I'm asking these questions genuinely, simply because I don't know. I thank you for trying to answer what is so hard for me to put into words.


----------



## drifting on

Duguesclin said:


> What she did is not right. But Mek wants her to trust him. I am simply saying it is not possible.
> 
> He will bring her to submission. She seems to be smart and she realizes that her economical future is probably better with Mek than with Mike. But realizing this does not mean she will be able to trust him. And because she will not be able to trust him, he will not trust her.
> 
> He needs to stop pretending. If he wants to trust her, he will have to make the relationship more "equal". Right now, he has all the cards. She has nothing.
> 
> He is right to want a healthy relationship with her. But right now the ingredients are not there for it to happen.
> 
> She obviously has some issues. Issues that are the bread and butter of Bollywood movies. He wished to be the hero of that movie, but he is the villain. The hearts are with Mike and Mek's wife.
> 
> It may seem unfair, but what touches the heart is not buying your wife. It is true love stories. And when I read Mek's story, I cannot help but think of the Bollywood (Mumbai) or Kollywood (Chennai) movies I saw when I was living in India.




If Mek's wife believes she is in a movie then she has many other issues to deal with. She is in a marriage, a marriage that demands truth, or it will deal out consequences. So if she thought this to be such a great thing to do why lie? Why destroy trust? Why, ultimately would she kill her own parents with shame to the point they kill themselves? No, she has a brain but seems incapable of using it on a say that is supportive to her marriage. It would be incredibly insightful if Mek could ask his wife just how unhappy she was prior to leaving. As Mek says she showed that she was very loving, if you really consider shat she did she had just surpassed my own wife on the cruel chart. 

If she seems smart to you, why would she risk her parents lives, her marriage, all over a past love? Because she is calculating. Calculating doesn't mean she is smart, it means that she is a deceptively good liar with no love for her own parents to do what she has done. Remember they met in public, with a supposed nephew, had coffee, hugged and kissed. You consider this to be from a smart woman? On my block you would be called a derogatory name. 

As for Mek having all the power, no that lies with the deceptive person here. Mek doesn't even have the full truth, and yet he has the power. I was cruel to my wife, I could have broken her completely without even trying, but I didn't. Mek hasn't broken his wife either, he has allowed her back in the home as I did. But you have to be cruel to get the full truth, and in my case the full truth was far more cruel to me then I ever was on my wife. Mek needs this truth, and I would use exposure to get that truth, and each day that passes without the truth means I expose to that many more people. Mek can't be blamed for her parents committing suicide, that's their own daughters fault. 

As for trust, Mek didn't destroy the trust, Mek didn't explode the marriage. If she is smart as you say, she will understand this and grow as a person. I firmly believe her family in India should be told about Mike, and that her family deal with him. Create shame so he loses the will to live also. So if I were Mek I would be contacting Mike and let him know I will be exposing. Infidelity is an act of war, Mike was the enemy, rid yourself of the enemy.


----------



## Mek

Sorry guys this is going to be a long one. 

Tasks:
1. Set boundaries: done
- no contact with mike whatsoever, text or call
- ignore his calls if he ever tries to contact her
- Any others you recommend? She never flirts with other guys, but I guess I can add that to be safe.
Crossing boundary = divorce
2. Tell her parents: done (see below)
3. Polygraph test: not yet, hopefully this week
4. Marriage counselor and IC: still looking
5. Pregnancy test = negative
6 .Do not have sex: already failed. But there is a positive side. I'm not finishing inside her, and every time I don't she gets a reminder that I don't trust her yet.

Thank you all for the replies. This morning I felt 10x better than I did yesterday. 

FYI: after I picked her up from the airport and after her initial confession, she asked how I knew the information. But I kept her in the dark. I told her maybe someone saw her, maybe I paid someone to spy on her, maybe someone put a camera/mic on her clothes. She has no idea how this happened yet. She thinks someone from facebook or from her village told me.

She sounds very remorseful. She has been crying on and off at random periods saying stuff like "sorry Mek. I made so many mistakes. How could I do this. How can I live with myself. I hurt everyone around me. I will be grateful for you for the rest of my life." 

Yesterday night I told her I need to hear in detail her previous life with Mike, and how, when and why she contacted him after our marriage. She said I'm not sure what or how much someone has told you about me but however much I know and remember I will tell you. She said I don't know what the end result will be after telling you everything, but I am going to do it and everything will be the truth. So she spent about 3 hours and she told me every single detail of her love story with Mike. I recorded all of it. If you guys want to know more of their story, let me know and I will post it. It is very long. Some details of that Convo:

- When she explained her trip to India, everything fit according to what they said in their what's app conversation.. which indicates she was being honest. 
- She didn't say the my jaan part, so I asked her after if she used that term, and she said yes she did say I miss you my jaan
- She didn't let go of Mike fully when coming to the marriage. They even talked ( on the phone) after our marriage, when I had gone to Canada and she was awaiting her Visa. He called her, and said you love your husband now? And she said yes. He asked if I'm a good guy and if she's happy with me, she said yes. 
- When she arrived in Canada, she told me she started taking to Mike behind my back because we were having problems in our marriage and she didn't think life in Canada was going to be this harsh. She justified it in her head because I allowed her to talk to Mike before, and she's only calling to tell him to get his life together. She admits it was a mistake and she wasn't thinking at the time.
- She did not have sex with Mike before marriage. Mike tried to advance, but Kate always stopped him. She said she was saving herself for after marriage. The most Mike did was touch her bum and breasts once from the outside of her clothes. They kissed and hugged a lot though. 
- The real reason she did not convince her father to say yes to Mike's marriage proposal was because 1. he was not baptized and her parents were only looking for a baptized Sikh male and 2. He believed his sister-in-law over Kate when the two of them were in a big money disagreement. Even though Kate insisted over the years that she was innocent and that Mike should trust her, he never did. Kate thought if he cant trust me now, how will he be able to trust me in the future. 
- She said she feels like a lot of weight has been lifted from her shoulders after telling me this.

After our talk I explained to her if there are problems in our marriage that doesn't mean you start thinking about someone else. She says she knows but she wasn't thinking like an adult or of the consequences it might have. I told her my boundaries. She cannot ever contact Mike in any form, text or call. If he tried to contact you, you ignore him. If she crosses the boundary it will lead to divorce. She understands. I also told her you got out of this situation pretty much scot free. There weren't any real consequences that she had to endure. The next morning she called her mom and told her that this was actually her fault. She didn't give the exact details but she gave enough. She said she made some mistakes and she is very lucky that Mek and his family have forgave her and accepted her back. When they got worried she said she didn't make HUGE mistakes, but they were mistakes, and HER mistakes nonetheless. 

It really feels like she is putting some effort into our marriage. She said she wanted to go to work with me this morning. I do service calls on debit machines, so she just sits in the car while I go from store to store fixing machines. 

This evening after we came from work, I didn't "finish inside her" and she couldn't stop crying for a few hours. I explained to her this is how it's going to be until you earn my trust again. I had to go somewhere, and when I returned she was still in bed. I sat her up and gave her a hug. Asked her what was wrong. She said she feels she is alone and has no one. My mom doesn't speak to her well. I told her she can tell me anything, treat me as her friend. She told me she knows shes made many mistakes. But I have to put myself in her shoes. I tried explaining to her that me not trusting her is the result of what she did. She needs to stop thinking about how I don't trust her, and start thinking about how she can gain my trust again. I told her it will take some time and effort, but eventually everything will be fine again. I also said I will look for a counselor with whom she can share her feelings with. A marriage counselor to make our marriage stronger, and an IC so she can freely talk about her feelings for Mike if need be. And she can always share her feelings with me. I'll be there for her. 

At one point today I was hugging her and I thought to myself this is exactly what we used to do before she left for India, but at that time she was deceiving me by talking to Mike on the side as well. She noticed something was wrong and asked me. I told her my thought. She said she will prove to me that I can trust her again. Just trust her 0.5% now and she will make it 100% again. She told me herself if I ever contact Mike again don't even think about not divorcing me. That comment felt so good. 

I contacted Mike's gf, (lets call her Lee) in Malaysia and told her not to trust Mike. I told her what happened with my wife. She said why you still with your wife etc lol. Anyway, she asked for Mike's phone number for proof. I gave it. She called Mike and broke up with him. Lee used to call and text Kate like mad when Kate was talking to Mike while she was in Canada. Kate did not give a **** and kept talking to Mike anyway. I told Kate I understand Lee's feelings. Kate did not like me talking to Lee. Anyway during our talk Lee said she is disappointed with Punjabi people. She was half Philippine half Japanese. My wife was looking over my shoulder when I was talking with her. And during this time Mike's gf said she wants to see me. My wife started crying and said Lee will take me away from her. I told my wife please don't worry I am not leaving her. I told Lee I will have to block her and good luck with her life. 

Just now I read a post to Kate by mary35. When I read the line "There are no guarantees your wife will change etc...", my wife got all emotional hugged me. She told me she will show me that she can change. 

I feel we are making good progress.


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----------



## sokillme

Mek said:


> Even though Kate insisted over the years that she was innocent and that Mike should trust her, he never did. Kate thought if he cant trust me now, how will he be able to trust me in the future.


How ironic. I wonder how that came to be? I am inclined to believe Mike's sister-in-law. I hope you are right but I think you are in for a hard life.


----------



## Andy1001

Mek said:


> Sorry guys this is going to be a long one.
> 
> Tasks:
> 1. Set boundaries: done
> - no contact with mike whatsoever, text or call
> - ignore his calls if he ever tries to contact her
> - Any others you recommend? She never flirts with other guys, but I guess I can add that to be safe.
> Crossing boundary = divorce
> 2. Tell her parents: done (see below)
> 3. Polygraph test: not yet, hopefully this week
> 4. Marriage counselor and IC: still looking
> 5. Pregnancy test = negative
> 6 .Do not have sex: already failed. But there is a positive side. I'm not finishing inside her, and every time I don't she gets a reminder that I don't trust her yet.
> 
> Thank you all for the replies. This morning I felt 10x better than I did yesterday.
> 
> FYI: after I picked her up from the airport and after her initial confession, she asked how I knew the information. But I kept her in the dark. I told her maybe someone saw her, maybe I paid someone to spy on her, maybe someone put a camera/mic on her clothes. She has no idea how this happened yet. She thinks someone from facebook or from her village told me.
> 
> She sounds very remorseful. She has been crying on and off at random periods saying stuff like "sorry Mek. I made so many mistakes. How could I do this. How can I live with myself. I hurt everyone around me. I will be grateful for you for the rest of my life."
> 
> Yesterday night I told her I need to hear in detail her previous life with Mike, and how, when and why she contacted him after our marriage. She said I'm not sure what or how much someone has told you about me but however much I know and remember I will tell you. She said I don't know what the end result will be after telling you everything, but I am going to do it and everything will be the truth. So she spent about 3 hours and she told me every single detail of her love story with Mike. I recorded all of it. If you guys want to know more of their story, let me know and I will post it. It is very long. Some details of that Convo:
> 
> - When she explained her trip to India, everything fit according to what they said in their what's app conversation.. which indicates she was being honest.
> - She didn't say the my jaan part, so I asked her after if she used that term, and she said yes she did say I miss you my jaan
> - She didn't let go of Mike fully when coming to the marriage. They even talked ( on the phone) after our marriage, when I had gone to Canada and she was awaiting her Visa. He called her, and said you love your husband now? And she said yes. He asked if I'm a good guy and if she's happy with me, she said yes.
> - When she arrived in Canada, she told me she started taking to Mike behind my back because we were having problems in our marriage and she didn't think life in Canada was going to be this harsh. She justified it in her head because I allowed her to talk to Mike before, and she's only calling to tell him to get his life together. She admits it was a mistake and she wasn't thinking at the time.
> - She did not have sex with Mike before marriage. Mike tried to advance, but Kate always stopped him. She said she was saving herself for after marriage. The most Mike did was touch her bum and breasts once from the outside of her clothes. They kissed and hugged a lot though.
> - The real reason she did not convince her father to say yes to Mike's marriage proposal was because 1. he was not baptized and her parents were only looking for a baptized Sikh male and 2. He believed his sister-in-law over Kate when the two of them were in a big money disagreement. Even though Kate insisted over the years that she was innocent and that Mike should trust her, he never did. Kate thought if he cant trust me now, how will he be able to trust me in the future.
> - She said she feels like a lot of weight has been lifted from her shoulders after telling me this.
> 
> After our talk I explained to her if there are problems in our marriage that doesn't mean you start thinking about someone else. She says she knows but she wasn't thinking like an adult or of the consequences it might have. I told her my boundaries. She cannot ever contact Mike in any form, text or call. If he tried to contact you, you ignore him. If she crosses the boundary it will lead to divorce. She understands. I also told her you got out of this situation pretty much scot free. There weren't any real consequences that she had to endure. The next morning she called her mom and told her that this was actually her fault. She didn't give the exact details but she gave enough. She said she made some mistakes and she is very lucky that Mek and his family have forgave her and accepted her back. When they got worried she said she didn't make HUGE mistakes, but they were mistakes, and HER mistakes nonetheless.
> 
> It really feels like she is putting some effort into our marriage. She said she wanted to go to work with me this morning. I do service calls on debit machines, so she just sits in the car while I go from store to store fixing machines.
> 
> This evening after we came from work, I didn't "finish inside her" and she couldn't stop crying for a few hours. I explained to her this is how it's going to be until you earn my trust again. I had to go somewhere, and when I returned she was still in bed. I sat her up and gave her a hug. Asked her what was wrong. She said she feels she is alone and has no one. My mom doesn't speak to her well. I told her she can tell me anything, treat me as her friend. She told me she knows shes made many mistakes. But I have to put myself in her shoes. I tried explaining to her that me not trusting her is the result of what she did. She needs to stop thinking about how I don't trust her, and start thinking about how she can gain my trust again. I told her it will take some time and effort, but eventually everything will be fine again. I also said I will look for a counselor with whom she can share her feelings with. A marriage counselor to make our marriage stronger, and an IC so she can freely talk about her feelings for Mike if need be. And she can always share her feelings with me. I'll be there for her.
> 
> At one point today I was hugging her and I thought to myself this is exactly what we used to do before she left for India, but at that time she was deceiving me by talking to Mike on the side as well. She noticed something was wrong and asked me. I told her my thought. She said she will prove to me that I can trust her again. Just trust her 0.5% now and she will make it 100% again. She told me herself if I ever contact Mike again don't even think about not divorcing me. That comment felt so good.
> 
> I contacted Mike's gf, (lets call her Lee) in Malaysia and told her not to trust Mike. I told her what happened with my wife. She said why you still with your wife etc lol. Anyway, she asked for Mike's phone number for proof. I gave it. She called Mike and broke up with him. Lee used to call and text Kate like mad when Kate was talking to Mike while she was in Canada. Kate did not give a **** and kept talking to Mike anyway. I told Kate I understand Lee's feelings. Kate did not like me talking to Lee. Anyway during our talk Lee said she is disappointed with Punjabi people. She was half Philippine half Japanese. My wife was looking over my shoulder when I was talking with her. And during this time Mike's gf said she wants to see me. My wife started crying and said Lee will take me away from her. I told my wife please don't worry I am not leaving her. I told Lee I will have to block her and good luck with her life.
> 
> Just now I read a post to Kate by mary35. When I read the line "There are no guarantees your wife will change etc...", my wife got all emotional hugged me. She told me she will show me that she can change.
> 
> I feel we are making good progress.


Good luck Mek.I really mean that.


----------



## MEM2020

All,
Read the post below and consider what it means. 

I think it is best for me to express my bias openly. 

Every toxic marriage on TAM is predicated on deceit. But not just the creation of deceit, which is a very common activity. But it's active consumption by a spouse. 

Dug describes an environment - a marriage and family where the truth - is prized above all else. And yet he also recognizes - that this is entirely foreign to other families and cultures. 

Perhaps we might collectively pause in wonder. As the ability to do one thing, while accepting without judgement that others do the polar opposite - is about as common as a unicorn. 





Duguesclin said:


> Areen, you are making my point for me. Please realize that in the western culture, not telling an adult she is dying is viewed as lying to her or concealing the truth from her. I am not placing a judgment. I am simply trying to point out some cultural differences.
> 
> As far as my son is concerned, he did know when he was diagnosed that he at 10 years old had cancer and his survival chances were 50%. His 8 year old Indian neighbor in the next room with the same diagnosis was just told she had a "virus".
> 
> When our son relapsed more than 3 years later, he was told he had only 25% chance to make it. He knows that if his cancer comes back, he is likely not going to survive. We do not lie to him nor to ourselves about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not against arranged marriages. I think they make a lot of sense in some contexts. But we also need to be honest. Many girls are taken advantage of.
> 
> As long as Mek's wife stays in line, gives him great sex and has healthy kids, she will be fine. If somehow she is not able to conceive, that may be a different story. Mek will get to decide.
> 
> The sad part in this story is that Mek has full control of his future, regardless of his wife. Hers is dependent on how she performs, and his goodwill toward her.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course she knew what she was doing. It does not make her a lesser victim. She has had her heart broken and it takes time to heal. She seems committed to do it. This makes it easier for Mek.
> 
> But let's not pretend he is going to have an organically loving and trusting relationship. It will take a lot of growing on his part before it can truly happen.


----------



## mary35

I think you are doing well Mek! Please tell Kate that I am choosing to be optimistic concerning her statement that she will prove to you that she can change! I believe she can change - and I hope with every romantic notion in my body that she will change and you too will be very happy together for the rest of your life. Also tell her - that I said she would be a fool to ruin things with you! You may be one in a million - and she better do everything she can do to make her self equal to your character status and worthy of the love and gift of trying to reconcile that you are giving her! Also tell her that I said if she does not change - and puts you through more hell - you should drop her sorry little self as fast as you can - and go find someone who deserves your love and devotion instead! 

Get that counselor line up as soon as possible. Make sure you find one that will make you both work hard at becoming healthy, safe partners for each other and not allow any bullsh.t from either of you. Make sure they will hold her feet to the fire about being open and honest and telling you the truth (and yours too if you need it). Don't get someone who is going to charge you mega bucks to sit there and listen to you both vent! 

I am rooting for the both of you!

Important side note - if you are pulling out to keep her from getting pregnant at this time - you should know that she can still get pregnant if you are not using some other form of birth control. I know because it happened to me!!


----------



## Diana7

Well done you are making wise decisions. I dont think you should have talked to Mikes partner though, that wasnt for you to get involved in, and he did nothing that you wife didnt do.

One thing that occured to me, you wife must get out and make friends. Has she got hobbies or interests she can do that will enable to her to met other women? Join clubs? Can she get work? She needs to make some good lady friends to talk to and spend time with, she sounds lonely. Maybe that's partly why she wanted to talk to mike when things weren't too good between you.


----------



## eric1

Mek - you are on the right path. 

If she was mad at you for talking to Lee she is still not remorseful, she regretful though she's becoming remorseful (mostly telling her mom)

Stay the course. Good luck man


----------



## Chaparral

Have you used an app like dr.fone to examine her phone for things that have been deleted.

So glad you decided not to wait on exposing her..........I think.


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## manfromlamancha

Well done Mek. You are definitely on the right track and moreover are helping your wife to be as well.

Also I might add, you are a fine example of a Sikh gentleman.


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## Blondilocks

MEM2020 said:


> Blond,
> LOL
> 
> Puzzle down.
> 
> At what page in the thread should I begin reading. And yes it is a given I will also read the OP's first few posts for context. It is kind of a longish thread though, so if this is a 'last 3' kind of request, my response time will be faster.


Sorry to disappear, Mem. The water heater started leaking and I had to scramble. The OP's latest post (367?) gives his update. Perhaps, you can offer some advice and tools that will help him recover from this EA.


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## MattMatt

manfromlamancha said:


> Well done Mek. You are definitely on the right track and moreover are helping your wife to be as well.
> 
> Also I might add, you are a fine example of a Sikh gentleman.


So. I would guess that @Mek you are a Singh, but that Mike is not a Singh?

And that your wife's a Kaur?

That relationship between her and Mike would, therefore, probably have been doomed to fail and would have shattered her parents.

My best wishes to you and Kate for your future together.


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## Blondilocks

Mek, you are establishing accountability with her. Good job. 

Her life in Canada must be quite hard for her. Learning English will open up her life and be good for your marriage. Carefully consider the questions you will ask in the polygraph as you will be limited to a certain number of questions. Given that she passes, you and she can build a strong marriage that you both will be proud of. Good luck in your recovery and your marriage.


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## drifting on

Mek,

Stay this course, however I do believe her parents need the truth. Since you exposed to "lee" they may find out if she begins to give Mike a difficult time. True they may have broken up but a woman scorned is a woman scorned. In addition "lee" never liked when Kate spoke to Mike. If she is in a rage over any of this she may just contact Kate's family, then what? Probably would be best they here this news from Kate then a stranger. And if "lee" makes mikes life miserable he may become upset, or mikes sister, and cause trouble for Kate's family. What I'm saying is now that the secret is out Kate's parents may very well find out through someone else. 

Best of luck to you.


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## areenhaque26

So let me clarify a few things-
Our version of lying and being honest is completely different than what the western world considers lying and being honest. 
Let's use the above scenario as an example- by not telling the wife or the kid about their ailment, they weren't lying or hiding the truth; they were trying to protect them from the bad news. We're very emotional people so we'll do whatever we can to ensure that we don't say or do anything to the other person that can upset them. Lying would be if I had told my husband that I am not a divorcee when I am because I wanted him to marry me. 

As far as @Mek and his wife are concerned, then she has as much control over this marriage and her future that mek does. Let's not forget that she had every opportunity to run away with Mike or to even walk away from this marriage. 

Granted that @Mek has more control than she does, but as far as being honest and faithful, then @Mek has fulfilled his duties as a husband very honestly. I can vouch for him that if he was one of those typical Indian husbands then there would be no way in hell that Kate would have been able to talk to Mike so openly.

With everything that has happened, @Mek needs to not only learn to forgive Kate and move past this situation but to also not blame himself. If he can't put this situation behind him, they'll never have a trustworthy marriage. 


Areen


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## sokillme

areenhaque26 said:


> So let me clarify a few things-
> Our version of lying and being honest is completely different than what the western world considers lying and being honest.
> Let's use the above scenario as an example- by not telling the wife or the kid about their ailment, they weren't lying or hiding the truth; they were trying to protect them from the bad news. We're very emotional people so we'll do whatever we can to ensure that we don't say or do anything to the other person that can upset them. Lying would be if I had told my husband that I am not a divorcee when I am because I wanted him to marry me.
> 
> As far as @Mek and his wife are concerned, then she has as much control over this marriage and her future that mek does. Let's not forget that she had every opportunity to run away with Mike or to even walk away from this marriage.
> 
> Granted that @Mek has more control than she does, but as far as being honest and faithful, then @Mek has fulfilled his duties as a husband very honestly. I can vouch for him that if he was one of those typical Indian husbands then there would be no way in hell that Kate would have been able to talk to Mike so openly.
> 
> With everything that has happened, @Mek needs to not only learn to forgive Kate and move past this situation but to also not blame himself. If he can't put this situation behind him, they'll never have a trustworthy marriage.
> 
> 
> Areen


Again you just assume she will not do it again? Is this "your version" of cheating or something? We only do it until we get caught? 

What has this woman done to make you think she will be faithful in the future except getting caught? She didn't run away because it would destroy her parents so she did the next best thing, met up with him in secret.


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## Malaise

sokillme said:


> Again you just assume she will not do it again? Is this "your version" of cheating or something? We only do it until we get caught?
> 
> What has this woman done to make you think she will be faithful in the future except getting caught? She didn't run away because it would destroy her parents so she did the next best thing, met up with him in secret.


As someone already said, if OP hadn't bugged her phone he'd be none the wiser ( @sokillme ? )

That wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about the future.


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## sokillme

Malaise said:


> As someone already said, if OP hadn't bugged her phone he'd be none the wiser ( @sokillme ? )
> 
> That wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about the future.


Yeah I said that.


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## areenhaque26

sokillme said:


> Again you just assume she will not do it again? Is this "your version" of cheating or something? We only do it until we get caught?
> 
> What has this woman done to make you think she will be faithful in the future except getting caught? She didn't run away because it would destroy her parents so she did the next best thing, met up with him in secret.


Oh no I don't assume that she won't do it again. In all honesty I was all for him leaving her because in my book cheating is the greatest offense in relationships. But I am also going to consider the fact that our job on here is to give people who seek advice, just that advice. At the end of the day it's their life and they have to decide what's good for them. 

People who cheat don't really think about the consequences and yeah they do think about getting caught but they keep doing it until they do. No cheater (regardless of culture) thinks rationally about pros and cons of cheating before they engage in it. 

If Mek's decision is to give his wife another chance then I'm going to respect that. It takes a lot of courage and a big heart to be able to let someone who cheats back into one's life. 

There's a 50/50 chance that she'll do it again. Who knows and so far she's done nothing to show that she'll be faithful. Going to work with him is like a released convict spending the day with their parole officer just to show that they've changed or they won't repeat their mistake again. Being under surveillance doesn't count as earning back someone's trust.

From a woman's perspective, I don't think she'll ever be able to let go off Mike completely. She'll "learn" to love Mek again but Mike will always be there. I only say this because even after the incident of Mike not believing her and things improving between her and mek, she still pined for him and couldn't let go of him. How do you miss someone who wouldn't believe you or stand up for you? Regardless of whether she was innocent or not in the money incident, but being her boyfriend it was his job to stand up for her but he took his sister-in-law's word over hers. I'm just baffled as to how anyone can have feelings for someone that didn't stand by you in your time of need. 


Areen


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## areenhaque26

Malaise said:


> As someone already said, if OP hadn't bugged her phone he'd be none the wiser ( @sokillme ? )
> 
> That wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about the future.


No she would have gotten caught regardless. Maybe not this soon but somewhere down the line she would have gotten caught. If Mek hadn't put that spy app then she would still be talking to Mike and she would try to see him again or multiple times. Transcripts aren't the only "reason" to go to India. There are a hundreds of reasons. 

I'm not saying that what she did was to protect him or prevent him from getting upset because she wasn't. What she did is considered cheating from every angle. She lied to mek from who Mike really was to why she was really going to India. 

Areen


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## Malaise

areenhaque26 said:


> No she would have gotten caught regardless. *Maybe not this soon but somewhere down the line she would have gotten caught. If Mek hadn't put that spy app then she would still be talking to Mike and she would try to see him again or multiple times. Transcripts aren't the only "reason" to go to India. There are a hundreds of reasons.
> *
> I'm not saying that what she did was to protect him or prevent him from getting upset because she wasn't. What she did is considered cheating from every angle. She lied to mek from who Mike really was to why she was really going to India.
> 
> Areen


That's what I mean. She admits it could have gone physical ( she says it didn't but that's according to her ). Mek will have to live with knowing she put in all the work to deceive him. And on his dime as well.

A lifetime of doubt ahead.


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## areenhaque26

Malaise said:


> That's what I mean. She admits it could have gone physical ( she says it didn't but that's according to her ). Mek will have to live with knowing she put in all the work to deceive him. And on his dime as well.
> 
> A lifetime of doubt ahead.


True and I'm sure he knows that as well. All he can do is try and all we can do is wish him luck. 

Areen


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## drifting on

areenhaque26 said:


> No she would have gotten caught regardless. Maybe not this soon but somewhere down the line she would have gotten caught. If Mek hadn't put that spy app then she would still be talking to Mike and she would try to see him again or multiple times. Transcripts aren't the only "reason" to go to India. There are a hundreds of reasons.
> 
> I'm not saying that what she did was to protect him or prevent him from getting upset because she wasn't. What she did is considered cheating from every angle. She lied to mek from who Mike really was to why she was really going to India.
> 
> Areen



Areen

I'm still a self professed idiot regarding the culture aspect here, can you answer these questions for me please. 

Since her parents would have a strong chance of committing suicide due to shame, what would the outcome of Kate be if she lived there? What I mean is, would she be isolated by the townspeople, stoned, severely beaten? I ask because I don't know, I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone. 

You say that sooner or later she would have been caught. Would it not be better that her parents here from her what she did of from someone else? If it comes from Kate would that not be best? Shame, do the townspeople make life for the parents a living hell? I really do not understand why a parent, mother or father, would commit suicide when they could simply disown Kate.

Edited to add;
If it's so shameful for her parents to the point they consider suicide, why wouldn't the cheater, (in this case Kate) not just commit suicide. I'm not trying to be cold, I'm just curious as to why the family commits suicide and not the cheater. Don't they feel the shame?


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## sokillme

areenhaque26 said:


> No she would have gotten caught regardless. Maybe not this soon but somewhere down the line she would have gotten caught. If Mek hadn't put that spy app then she would still be talking to Mike and she would try to see him again or multiple times. Transcripts aren't the only "reason" to go to India. There are a hundreds of reasons.
> 
> I'm not saying that what she did was to protect him or prevent him from getting upset because she wasn't. What she did is considered cheating from every angle. She lied to mek from who Mike really was to why she was really going to India.
> 
> Areen


Yes it could and would have probably been a 20 years affair in the meanwhile Mek and her could have kids.


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## sokillme

So I will ask it again if she is willing to risk her parent's suicide what could possibly be more motivation than that? Why shouldn't we just assume she has NPD? She may not even love Mek. She loves her parents.


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## drifting on

sokillme said:


> So I will ask it again if she is willing to risk her parent's suicide what could possibly be more motivation than that? Why shouldn't we just assume she has NPD? She may not even love Mek. She loves her parents.




This is exactly why I keep questioning the "culture" aspect of this. Your parents may commit suicide because of shame, but yet she goes to her parents town and surrounding towns to have her affair. In my opinion, I don't think culture has too much to do with this, she is just selfish and went after the man she wanted. By the way, did she ever get her transcripts which were so ever important to her? Probably not as she was too busy trying to bed her man. This betrayal may actually be worse then what I went through, I know my anger is just as volitale as I felt in my betrayal.


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## sokillme

drifting on said:


> This is exactly why I keep questioning the "culture" aspect of this. Your parents may commit suicide because of shame, but yet she goes to her parents town and surrounding towns to have her affair. In my opinion, I don't think culture has too much to do with this, she is just selfish and went after the man she wanted. By the way, did she ever get her transcripts which were so ever important to her? Probably not as she was too busy trying to bed her man. This betrayal may actually be worse then what I went through, I know my anger is just as volitale as I felt in my betrayal.


It's worse for you because there is no love in it to taper your anger. You may get what a lot of us feel for you though.


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## Thor

areenhaque26 said:


> So let me clarify a few things-
> Our version of lying and being honest is completely different than what the western world considers lying and being honest.
> Let's use the above scenario as an example- by not telling the wife or the kid about their ailment, they weren't lying or hiding the truth; they were trying to protect them from the bad news. We're very emotional people so we'll do whatever we can to ensure that we don't say or do anything to the other person that can upset them. Lying would be if I had told my husband that I am not a divorcee when I am because I wanted him to marry me.


The difference in your two examples has to do with benevolent vs selfish motivation.

In the first instance the people withhold information out of the belief the person will be harmed unnecessarily by the truth. Their remaining life is very short with no hope of recovery, so they are giving the person some days without the anguish of knowing about their imminent death. We can argue whether this is actually the better choice, but the motivation is based on love and benevolence. The sick person might agree it was loving to not tell them.

The second situation is based in selfishness. If you knew your husband would reject you for being a divorcee, your motivation to hide it from him is purely selfish. You would have harmed him by taking away his ability to make the informed decision. You would have manipulated him into doing something you know he would not want to do. Had you kept this from your husband he would be very angry to find out you did so.

When it comes to Mek's wife, she falls solidly into the second situation. She lied numerous times about her EA with Mike out of selfishness. She was taking away Mek's ability to make the informed decision about the rest of his very long life. She lied in order to be able to get what she wanted, not out of some loving concern about Mek getting the best for him.


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## Thor

areenhaque26 said:


> But I am also going to consider the fact that our job on here is to give people who seek advice, just that advice. At the end of the day it's their life and they have to decide what's good for them.


I think it is our duty to give our honest opinion. If he chooses to do something foolish we should tell him it is foolish, not advise him how to go do the foolish thing. I think Mek is making the common foolish mistakes many of us made in the early days of discovering betrayals. I would advise him to be very cautious in the R, and to not become attached to R being the only acceptable outcome.



areenhaque26 said:


> From a woman's perspective, I don't think she'll ever be able to let go off Mike completely. She'll "learn" to love Mek again but Mike will always be there. I only say this because even after the incident of Mike not believing her and things improving between her and mek, she still pined for him and couldn't let go of him.


And if she continues to pine for Mike it will undermine the marriage. Decades from now Mek may find himself in a dead unfulfilling marriage trying to win her heart. When it finally fails, he'll feel like he wasted the last 30 yrs of his life on a woman who picked him for practical reasons while her heart always belonged to another man.

Fwiw, my XW's heart remained with a man who was, and still is, a jerk. My xw can sometimes admit to his jerkiness, but she excuses it. I've learned the lesson but it cost me my entire adulthood.


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## drifting on

How are you doing Mek?


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