# Is Responsive Desire just Duty Sex?



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Or is it just my relationship.

Been married for 30 years - 54 years old. Children all grown. Last one in last year of University and will be moving out in May.

Marriage has never been great. I am high drive. She was high drive for the first few years of our relationship. I would say she is low drive now, but maybe just with me.

She has never been affectionate. Early on she always accepted my affection, but lately she rejects it most of the time. We have had this thing where most weekends, I get up earlier than her. I return to bed around 10-11am and she would typically pretend she is annoyed that I am bothering her. I will crawl into bed with her. Rub her back and neck. Talk and visit. Eventually I touch more than her back or she pushes her butt back towards me (her sign she is ready for more). We end up having sex. She always cums (or at least pretends to). She rarely ever initiates sex or affection. 

I just figured that is the way we are. When someone posted about Responsive Desire, it seemed to fit her and made sense to me.

A couple of weeks ago we had a discussion/fight about sex. During the fight she told me that most of the time when I crawl into bed with her, she only responds because she is feeling guilty. Guilty that we have not had sex for a while. I always felt she was actually feeling something. That she had desire and attraction to me, but just wasn't able to show it without me getting her going. Now it seems she doesn't really care. That she is just doing it out of guilt. Just duty sex.

I haven't initiated since that fight. I don't want duty sex. I want her to desire me and care about me. 

My 'love language' is physical touch. Our schedule/pattern used to be enough to keep me feeling loved. Now it feels like it was all a lie. 

In previous threads, when describing our relationship, people have commented that my wife 'just isn't into you'. The responsive desire thing made me think that she was into me, just wasn't able to show it without some help. Now I think those people are correct.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

No, responsive desire is real, actual desire. It just comes after physical arousal, not before.

Duty sex is just taking one for the team.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Kids out of the house and she said that to me, I'd be out of the house right along with them.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> No, responsive desire is real, actual desire. It just comes after physical arousal, not before.
> 
> 
> 
> Duty sex is just taking one for the team.




I agree. Responsive desire is completely different from duty sex — slow to arouse but then engaged and actively participating vs starfish sex.

ETA: if there are no comments or actions that imply or indicate “ok just get it over with so I can tell myself that I’m fulfilling my duties as a spouse” then I would just go with it. If she is physically responding (moisture, involuntary muscle contractions/spasms, etc) it does not fit into my definition of duty sex.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I agree. Responsive desire is completely different from duty sex — slow to arouse but then engaged and actively participating vs starfish sex.
> 
> ETA: if there are no comments or actions that imply or indicate “ok just get it over with so I can tell myself that I’m fulfilling my duties as a spouse” then I would just go with it. If she is physically responding (moisture, involuntary muscle contractions/spasms, etc) it does not fit into my definition of duty sex.


Getting wet and even having an orgasm don't even necessarily indicate that she wants to be doing it. Sometimes the body just does it's own thing, even when the mind would rather be elsewhere.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

No, not the same at all.

I would say I definitely lean more towards the responsive desire category. But that’s mostly because I’m attracted to the strong leader male personality type, so I personally love when my guy makes the first move. Complete turn-on for me. It’s just the way I’m wired.

But I can assure you, once the activity begins to unfold there is NOTHING “duty” about it! I am an eager participant and we both give it our all .

(I have a very healthy sex drive by the way and certainly initiate my fair share.)


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

SadSamIAm said:


> Or is it just my relationship.
> 
> Been married for 30 years - 54 years old. Children all grown. Last one in last year of University and will be moving out in May.
> 
> ...


Buddy you could be having sex for another twenty years.Why not spend that time with someone who WANTS to have sex with you.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> No, not the same at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have an opposite situation. My H has nerve damage to the groin after being run over by a semi while crossing the street around age 20 — sex is not a high priority for him most of the time. I have no doubt that most of our intimate encounters, when initiated by me, are responsive desire. I have no trouble differentiating between that and duty sex — the difference is quite clear.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Have you shown her the ted talk about sexless marriages? And the impac it has on the relationship


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Responsive desire is a very real thing, at least for me. I have trouble shutting down my brain. There is always 100 things to keep track of, plan or take care of. So even when my mind says hey maybe sex would be nice tonight, my brain is also saying did I turn the fish tanks back on, what am I getting my dd for Christmas. And so on. Then my husband rubs my butt. And so on and each little thread stops until only sex remains. And it's not that I didn't want it before but it's hard to be in the right mood if you are wondering what you need to get from the grocery store to cook dinner for the in-laws tomorrow.

Maybe she isn't in to you. Maybe she fakes it or maybe she just wants to hurt you in the middle of an argument.

It's important to figure out. I'm lucky my hubby accepts that I'm not a porn star and need a little to get going. He doesn't take it personal and doesn't get turned down often we average 4-9 times a week right now usual in the middle somewhere.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Find a girlfriend. Stay married. Ask her about it. She probably wouldn't mind. At both your ages, you don't want to start over. Being together that long, there is so much history, it would never be similar with someone else. You'd be single the rest of your life, unless you got really lucky. Most of us out here, your age, and I'm 55, don't want bothered with starting and growing another life with someone else. It's much easier at 30 something. 

It's likely she just isn't into it any more and comfortable. Assuming she is near your age, she is probably past the change of life. If so, get used to getting what you need, when she will allow it. You will have to initiate. Don't be shy about being turned down. Buck up as best you can and know you'll have to get it elsewhere for the remaining years you are together. 

Or, get divorced and deal with the other messes out there that you don't have any clue about, yet. We all have our baggage. 

Sometimes, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> Find a girlfriend. Stay married. Ask her about it. She probably wouldn't mind. At both your ages, you don't want to start over. Being together that long, there is so much history, it would never be similar with someone else. You'd be single the rest of your life, unless you got really lucky. Most of us out here, your age, and I'm 55, don't want bothered with starting and growing another life with someone else. It's much easier at 30 something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree....if a wife no longer feels any sexual attraction for her husband and they are 40 or younger divorce is on the table. But when that happens and you are in your mid 50’s
Maybe a lover on the side is a better solution. The big problem is what do you do if you happen to fall in love with the girlfriend. I do a lot of women who want sex but don’t want a man around ll the time.....So talk to your wife but don’t be surprised if she says she will go get a lover too....



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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Personally I believe responsive desire is a myth. Something people tell themselves to lessen the blow when the attraction is gone. 


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

There is a difference between responsive desire and duty sex. A woman who has responsive desire still wants to have sex, she just needs her partner to initiate. A woman having duty sex doesn't really want to have sex. She may respond, but those responses are mostly autonomous and have little to do with actual attraction or desire or even enjoyment.

I wasn't into my exH. I did, however, have sex with him out of a sense of obligation. Sure, I'd get aroused and orgasm. That's what happens when the erogenous zones are stimulated. 

I think responsive desire and duty sex can appear to be the same, but they aren't. The trick is telling the two apart. I'd look to the rest of the relationship for clues.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sam, the silver lining in this is that she was honest with you.

Up to that point, you were (not so) blissfully ignorant. But now you know...for certain...what many of us have been saying here.

I am like you in that if I believed my wife's desire for me completely gone, I would have zero interest in sex with her. 

Now that you know...what will you do?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> If she is physically responding (moisture, involuntary muscle contractions/spasms, etc) it does not fit into my definition of duty sex.


This is somewhat erroneous. Orgasm and the things that go with it are somewhat reflexive to a degree. provide the proper stimulation and a physiological response will occur. 

Rape victims have had orgasms. That does not mean they were attracted to their attackers, wanted to have sex, or enjoyed it in the slightest. It just means that their body received some physical stimulation and their body had a physiological reaction to it. 

That is an extreme example of course and I am not comparing the OP and his wife to a rapist and a victim of sexual assault. I am just using that as an extreme example that physiological arousal and orgasm etc is not always an indication of attraction, desire or a satisfactory sexual experience.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> This is somewhat erroneous. Orgasm and the things that go with it are somewhat reflexive to a degree. provide the proper stimulation and a physiological response will occur.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is an absolutely fair point, thank you for pointing that out — and as an abuse survivor myself I should have found a different way to phrase my thoughts. 

What I was trying to convey is that, in my experience, the difference between responsive desire and duty sex is quite noticeable. The level of enthusiasm displayed with RD after arousal has been in stark contrast to the enthusiasm (or really lack thereof) witnessed with DS. 

I suppose that being a female with high desire/drive probably affects my actions and reactions with RD/DS — I have never faked my reactions during intimacy so if I am just not getting aroused I say so and offer up a BJ to my H. On the other side of the coin, it is readily apparent to me if my H just doesn’t desire sexual activity or if his medical issues are affecting the ability to achieve and maintain his erection. 

Thank you, oldshirt, for pointing that out to me. With as high as my drive is it’s difficult to put myself in that type of mindset — and I need to be more cognizant of that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SadSamIAm said:


> Marriage has never been great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Without using the actual term, she has pretty much come right out and told you that she is doing duty sex. 

Responsive Desire is desire. It is simply becoming aroused and wanting to get down due to the actions of the other person, rather than spontaneously being horny on their own. 

She sounds like she is offering it up to keep you from getting moody and whining too much. 

And from your descriptions from your past, it sounds like this has been a chronic, long term issue and pattern. 

Unless you somehow can transform into a completely different person that she just happens to be hot for, I do not see this pattern changing much other than incrementally getting worse with time and age. 

If there is any kind of silver lining here it is that you are having sex AT ALL after 30 years of marriage and being in your mid 50s (I am 53 and have been married 22 years so I kind of consider myself in the same category) Many of our peers are on the "Few-Times-A-Year-Plan" or are pretty much sexless so I consider myself somewhat lucky to still have an at least mediocre sexlife at this stage of life and marriage. 

You can look at it this way - she may be offering up duty-sex, but with adult children moving out of the house, if you are offering up duty-marriage and duty-support and duty-housing and duty-food on the table; it might be a fair exchange.

I disagree with some of the other posters that said that a man in his 50s is all washed up in terms of finding other options. 

If a guy is still in good health, has a stable income, is not obese and let himself go, he does have options. 

He may not have his pick of the litter of hot young, fertile babes anymore and may not be able to marry some pretty 28 year old and start a new family unless he is a rich, handsome movie star.......but I don't know too many 50-something year old men that are crazy and stupid enough to want to start another family and have more kids etc. 

There are middle aged women out there that still have sex drives and would still want to have a reasonably healthy sex life. .....it's just probably not the man that they have been married to for the past 30 years.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> That is an absolutely fair point, thank you for pointing that out — and as an abuse survivor myself I should have found a different way to phrase my thoughts.
> 
> What I was trying to convey is that, in my experience, the difference between responsive desire and duty sex is quite noticeable. The level of enthusiasm displayed with RD after arousal has been in stark contrast to the enthusiasm (or really lack thereof) witnessed with DS.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with everything else that you have/had said. 

The difference between RD and DS is that the desire of RD is real, it just takes the actions of the other bring it out. 

Where as with DS, it is usually being offered up for reasons other than actual desire/horniness etc. 

The point I wanted to make was that orgasm et al are not necessarily definitive indicators that there is a desire or even all that satisfying of a sexual experience. Even being a man, there have been times I have had sex, got a solid erection and had an orgasm, and it wasn't that thrilling or satisfying as an experience.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But all that being said, let's not knock Duty-Sex as some kind of evil, dark force in universe. 

Duty Sex doesn't always have to mean that any animals are being harmed or that kids are going hungry or that taxes are not being paid. 

Duty sex can still be pleasant and somewhat bonding. 

I will admit, that these days my sex life sounds eerily similar to the OP's. The exception is I usually make my way back into the bedroom around 9 am on weekends and most of the time Mrs Old does seem to appreciate my arrival and my cuddling. 

On the occasions that our cuddle time does escalate to sex (or more often a BJ or HJ) It is duty sex by definition on most occasions. 

But I do what I can to be warm and loving towards her and I do at least offer to give her a hand and do give her an orgasm or two if she allows it. 

And while I wish she would be overcome with desire for me and ravage me like a porn star like she used to do in years gone by - I do appreciate that she is still willing to drain the tank and keep my from climbing the walls or being a threat to society. 

It is not ideal or what either of us dream about at night, but it is pleasant and it still does have some bonding properties. 

I do my best to be warm and kind and compassionate towards her, and she does understand and accommodate that I need at least some sexual contact and release in order for me to be warm and kind and compassionate within the relationship. 

It is duty sex on most occasions. But it does serve a higher purpose and it is at least an affectionate and pleasant experience for both of us. It may not be the hot, sweaty, breathless and passionate porn sex of our younger days. But it is not a dark force of evil and despair that some make it out to be.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I actually agree with everything else that you have/had said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok, I understand what you’re saying — I really don’t want to though LOL. The thought that my lover finds sex with me unsatisfying but fakes it convincingly enough that I am unaware of it — that is quite honestly horrifying to me. 

For me, knowing my partner was capable of that level of deception would be devastating. I already feel abnormal and broken because of how high my drive is and how important sex is to me. If I discovered that I was unable to know, with complete certainty, if my partner was genuine in his expression of desire and pleasure — that would absolutely be a deal breaker. I would never truly know if an intimate interlude was genuine or faked — I could not live that way. 

Wow, I had no idea that I would gain such insight into RD/DS tonight — but I am grateful that I did.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> But all that being said, let's not knock Duty-Sex as some kind of evil, dark force in universe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think that my strong reaction in this thread is not about duty sex itself but instead the thought of attempting to pretend that DS is anything other than what it is. It’s the deception that has been spoken of that I find so reprehensible. Not all sex is earth shattering, I’ve had plenty of mediocre or even flat out bad sex in my life. I guess the difference for me is that I’ve always been honest about it and laugh it off — not every meal is a gourmet experience but it still feeds the body — and for me, sex feeds my heart and soul


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> Find a girlfriend. Stay married. Ask her about it. She probably wouldn't mind.


That sounds like a really bad idea. I would instead try to figure out what you can do to improve the situation. Maybe do some self improvement, gym, cloths ... something. If you get a girlfriend, your wife may start wanting a boyfriend, and then where are you?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Shake up your routine. It's gotten stale. You need to get her thinking about sex before you crawl into bed and chat and making your moves. If you want sex Saturday morning, start flirting on Monday - no physical gestures that could make her think you're after sex. Create anticipation. It's called romance so romance her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> Ok, I understand what you’re saying — I really don’t want to though LOL. The thought that my lover finds sex with me unsatisfying but fakes it convincingly enough that I am unaware of it — that is quite honestly horrifying to me.
> 
> For me, knowing my partner was capable of that level of deception would be devastating. I already feel abnormal and broken because of how high my drive is and how important sex is to me. If I discovered that I was unable to know, with complete certainty, if my partner was genuine in his expression of desire and pleasure — that would absolutely be a deal breaker. I would never truly know if an intimate interlude was genuine or faked — I could not live that way.
> 
> Wow, I had no idea that I would gain such insight into RD/DS tonight — but I am grateful that I did.


That's not what I am saying. 

It does not necessarily mean that there is any faking or deception going on. 

Let's keep in mind that the acts of touching and stroking and kissing and licking/sucking etc and the sensations of PIV and orgasms etc are innately pleasurable. 

Let's assume that your partner and Mrs SadSam (and hopefully Mrs Oldshirt) ARE experiencing some actual pleasure and orgasms and are benefitting from the closeness and bonding that is hopefully coming from those experiences. 

If so, that is not fakery or deception. 

It may be lackluster. It may be mediocre. And it may even be somewhat frustrating and not satisfying to the degree that either partner would like - but it doesn't necessarily mean that anything was fake or deceptive or with any form of malice or resentment (let's not confuse duty sex with starfish sex) 

Perhaps another thread should be started on this topic so as not to hijack the OP's situational thread.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Responsive desire is the excuse they use when their taking care of themselves and have no sexual energy left for you.

Maybe you don't do the things they want ...like kiss frequently tell them there so great etc

Kinda like if she don't do the things you like ....oral etc eventually in a long term relationship it gets old never getting the things you truly desire. And instead of settling for the same old same it's easier to just rub one out with your fantasy.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Isn’t non-responsive desire when you are supposed to call the ambulance  ? 


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> Responsive desire is the excuse they use when their taking care of themselves and have no sexual energy left for you.
> 
> Maybe you don't do the things they want ...like kiss frequently tell them there so great etc
> 
> Kinda like if she don't do the things you like ....oral etc eventually in a long term relationship it gets old never getting the things you truly desire. And instead of settling for the same old same it's easier to just rub one out with your fantasy.



Just not true. 

FWIW once my husband gets me started not finished I do Desire him. He often receives oral stimulation, hand stimulation, sometimes prostate stimulation and often gets girl on top lay back and enjoy sex.

My body and brain simply are different than a mans. I don't get horny watching a young man loading groceries or whatever crap many men do. I do desire my husband, but it can get lost in daily life sometimes. That's why it is called responsive desire you are responding to stimulation with ACTUAL desire.

So glad my husband understands and is confident enough to know I love him and want sex. I love our sex life and pretty sure he does to. Just finished our morning session, can't wait for this evening! Our routine is similar to the OP. He is often awake before me, he'll read alittle, then when I wake up he gives me time to be awake and adjust. Then he'll start caressing me and off we go to the races.

We both know weekend mornings are sex mornings where we rarely leave then bedroom before 10 am and sometimes noon. 

OP this sounds like your routine have you ever asked her at a time when you aren't fighting if she enjoys it? My boss once offered me pay to work Saturday. I just smiled and said no. I told my husband there isn't enough money in the world to give up my Saturday mornings.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> Or is it just my relationship.
> 
> Been married for 30 years - 54 years old. Children all grown. Last one in last year of University and will be moving out in May.
> 
> ...


Your marriage is just extremely unhealthy.

It would take a lot of work and radical changes to get it healthy again.

It would take both of you changing and that is hard work.

Your wife sounds like she may be suffering from depression as well.

Are you both physically healthy? In shape?

My wife is 58, I am nearly 47 and we are both in good physical shape and work hard at our marriage.

Everything is mental and emotional once you have your bodies in shape and then you have to work it out in counseling or with the aid of self help books.

You two need a serious "Come to Jesus" meeting about your marriage, wether it is worth continuing which would require a lot of work from you both, or if it isn't worth pursuing anymore.

You aren't happy and neither is your wife.

You obviously need better communication to start with and you both need to feel safe with each other to accomplish that.

With work, love and commitment, anything can be accomplished.

Two days ago I was laying in bed and gave my wife the bedroom eye.

She smiled and asked if I wanted to play?

I said yes and she was naked in less than two minutes and crawling all over me.

That is the result of over 26 years of continuous work.

She has gone through phases of responsive desire, no desire and everything in between but it has taken a lot of love and communication on my part to help her get her sexy on.

I am also a man that will not be denied. It is my natural inclination and she knew that from the start and loves me for it. I work hard at my marriage but I expect to be worked with as well.

I suspect you need to work and grow to get the results you want.

I have found most people want results without much effort.

You really do reap what you sow.
How would you objectively rate yourself, physically, emotionally, etc. as a man and husband?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

anastasia6 said:


> Just not true.
> 
> FWIW once my husband gets me started not finished I do Desire him. He often receives oral stimulation, hand stimulation, sometimes prostate stimulation and often gets girl on top lay back and enjoy sex.
> 
> ...



Glad it works for you guys.

Now how hard would it be to make an effort to initiate once in awhile?


Seems like a worth while idea.

Trust me it gets old always being the one intinating!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

anastasia6 said:


> Just not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is actually quite helpful to read. What bothers me most about this whole responsive desire thingy is that I tend to start feeling that I’m the only one who cares about intimate connection and it spills over into depression/insecurity/frustration etc.
I have to make a conscious effort to keep telling myself that our brains work in different ways and it doesn’t mean anything sinister...
Though from your description it sounds as though you are not only Responsive but also Easily Responsive Desire. Perhaps even Looking Forward To Respond Desire 


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> Responsive desire is the excuse they use when their taking care of themselves and have no sexual energy left for you.
> 
> Maybe you don't do the things they want ...like kiss frequently tell them there so great etc
> 
> Kinda like if she don't do the things you like ....oral etc eventually in a long term relationship it gets old never getting the things you truly desire. And instead of settling for the same old same it's easier to just rub one out with your fantasy.


No, that is simply a dysfunctional relationship. 

Responsive desire is bona fide desire and arousal and participation. It is just something that took a little seduction and foreplay to get there. 

Most women do not walk around in a state of desire and arousal like men do. 

Other than maybe a day or two around ovulation, most women do not have horny-hormones coursing through their veins at any given time like men do. 

And as some of the female posters have indicated on this thread, most women have 10,000 things going through their head and have a list of 10,000 other things to do during the day besides having sex. 

It takes some flirtation and seduction and foreplay to get a woman from worrying about the dirty dishes in the sink and what time the UPS guy will drop off the package that she ordered a couple days ago to thinking about sex and feeling a sense of desire and arousal. 

Responsive desire is needing someone else to start activating the launch sequence.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Funny how this responsive desire only shows up after marriage.

So once they got you married up then no need to think about sex anymore.

Hmm.

I will keep my opinion thanks.

And even if it has some Merritt. If your spouse communicates that he's unhappy with never feeling desired then shouldn't they put effort into changing? Just like if she communicates that her need to feel closer shouldn't an effort on his part be made to meet that need?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Chillymorn you have your own issues don't project them on me. I don't even know what the men of TAM mean when they talk about women initiating. Do I ever start rubbing on him first, yes. Do i ever tell as he's exiting the shower that I'm the soap inspector and I better make sure he got it all off while dropping to my knees right there and giving a good five minute inspection orally? You betcha. Do I ever tell him while we are out shopping I want to go home and have him bend me over? Yep.

Is that initiating? Don't know don't care. My husband is happy with his level of sex and doesn't mind being mostly a leader in our bedroom, he loves me and desires to pleasure me. We've done somethings in the last year that has increased our quality and frequency. ONE of those things was talking and accepting responsive desire. I come to TAM. And so many men say they would do anything to have sex or be desired and have sex. But most of them won't do toys or accept responsive desire or 'work'. Nothing makes me desire my husband more than him bringing out my desire and then orgasming. That makes me desire him all day and the next so that might be when I initiate. But wouldn't happen if he just waited for my brain to shut off. It would be like before 1-2 times a week or not.

Sounds like the OP has way more problems. But men who discount responsive desire or let it stop them are losing out. My husband literally gets more sex than his 47 year old body Can handle. If you check my early threads you'll see I was concerned with ED because he sometimes loses it when we get to number 9 or more in one week.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

anastasia6 said:


> Chillymorn you have your own issues don't project them on me. I don't even know what the men of TAM mean when they talk about women initiating. Do I ever start rubbing on him first, yes. Do i ever tell as he's exiting the shower that I'm the soap inspector and I better make sure he got it all off while dropping to my knees right there and giving a good five minute inspection orally? You betcha. Do I ever tell him while we are out shopping I want to go home and have him bend me over? Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Right, this is what I meant by RD vs duty sex. Your mind may not be in sex mode but when your partner initiates in whatever form you are able to get aroused and actively participate. My understanding of duty sex is the behavior/comments that either imply or flat out state “fine hurry up and get it over with so you’ll quit bugging/whining/nagging”


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yep totally different in my eyes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Blonde,

Normally your advice is good. In this case, I don’t think so. Read his numerous posts. S2 doesn’t really like him. 





Blondilocks said:


> Shake up your routine. It's gotten stale. You need to get her thinking about sex before you crawl into bed and chat and making your moves. If you want sex Saturday morning, start flirting on Monday - no physical gestures that could make her think you're after sex. Create anticipation. It's called romance so romance her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> Blonde,
> 
> Normally your advice is good. In this case, I don’t think so. Read his numerous posts. S2 doesn’t really like him.


2500+ posts? Um, I'll pass.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

SadSamIAm said:


> Or is it just my relationship.
> 
> Been married for 30 years - 54 years old. Children all grown. Last one in last year of University and will be moving out in May.
> 
> ...


No, it's not the same. Responsive desire just means that sexually assertive hormones aren't as high. A person with responsive desire enjoys sex, just doesn't crave it all the time.

It could be compared to an alcoholic (men), versus a casual drinker (women). The addict needs it, feels the urge pretty much every day, without provocation. While the casual drinker just enjoys it, they don't necessarily feel a biological need for it. Not all the time anyway.

Obviously this is a generalization though. There are plenty of men and women who take the stereotypical role of the opposite sex when it comes to drive.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I know some said finding a girlfriend is a bad idea for the reason she may want a man of her own. I think I gave more than one option and part of them was talking it out. It all starts with conversation from ideas. It's time to think about all the possibilities and talk Sam.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Anastasia6
But men who discount responsive desire or let it stop them are losing out. My husband literally gets more sex than his 47 year old body Can handle. If you check my early threads you'll see I was concerned with ED because he sometimes loses it when we get to number 9 or more in one week. *

WTG. I only wish I couldn't handle it.


I have experience responsive desire from my W, but it was responsive desire if I did what worked that day. It didn't work on another day. Some people's sexuality or likes can be like a combination lock where the combination changes every so often. One day things work well and a few days later the same combination results in complaints or no interest.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

anastasia6 said:


> Chillymorn you have your own issues don't project them on me. I don't even know what the men of TAM mean when they talk about women initiating. Do I ever start rubbing on him first, yes. Do i ever tell as he's exiting the shower that I'm the soap inspector and I better make sure he got it all off while dropping to my knees right there and giving a good five minute inspection orally? You betcha. Do I ever tell him while we are out shopping I want to go home and have him bend me over? Yep.
> 
> Is that initiating? Don't know don't care. My husband is happy with his level of sex and doesn't mind being mostly a leader in our bedroom, he loves me and desires to pleasure me. We've done somethings in the last year that has increased our quality and frequency. ONE of those things was talking and accepting responsive desire. I come to TAM. And so many men say they would do anything to have sex or be desired and have sex. But most of them won't do toys or accept responsive desire or 'work'. Nothing makes me desire my husband more than him bringing out my desire and then orgasming. That makes me desire him all day and the next so that might be when I initiate. But wouldn't happen if he just waited for my brain to shut off. It would be like before 1-2 times a week or not.
> 
> Sounds like the OP has way more problems. But men who discount responsive desire or let it stop them are losing out. My husband literally gets more sex than his 47 year old body Can handle. If you check my early threads you'll see I was concerned with ED because he sometimes loses it when we get to number 9 or more in one week.


Responsive desire is when they never intimate in my mind what you describe is a husband's dream come true.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yes from that perspective probably. My point however is left to my own for a few days and none of that happens. If we haven't been intimate for a few days then my desire takes a back seat. This sometimes happens mid week as work is stressful and follows me home. But if he's willing to put in the 'work' and time to get my mind to shutdown then as he says ' oh no I've released the kraken'. Because then I want more and desire to give more than he can take. 😉. But if he didn't act then we'd be just like so many other stories here at TAM. One of the things we have going for us is we love each other, don't fight and don't play games. We did before have lack of communication about sex. We still are working on some of that embarrassment but are a lot better. Enough now that he knows if I don't roll over and spread it after he touches my shoulder that it is ok. Just keep going like rub my butt. And I know if it isn't going to work just tell him he won't take it personally. Though I usually give if a few minutes before calling it. Because there is plenty of days I think I'm not going to be in the mood and a few minutes later low and behold I am sometimes it even surprises me!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> You can look at it this way - she may be offering up duty-sex, but with adult children moving out of the house, if you are offering up duty-marriage and duty-support and duty-housing and duty-food on the table; it might be a fair exchange.


That seems like a fair trade


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> It is duty sex on most occasions. But it does serve a higher purpose and it is at least an affectionate and pleasant experience for both of us. It may not be the hot, sweaty, breathless and passionate porn sex of our younger days. But it is not a dark force of evil and despair that some make it out to be.


This isn't responsive desire. But done done for love, affection or concern for your happiness, I see nothing wrong with graciously accepting it.

If she were doing it only because she felt guilty, as with the OP, I would refuse it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Handy said:


> I have experience responsive desire from my W, but it was responsive desire if I did what worked that day. It didn't work on another day. Some people's sexuality or likes can be like a combination lock where the combination changes every so often. One day things work well and a few days later the same combination results in complaints or no interest.


If a woman has responsive desire, that doesn't mean that all you have to do is initiate and she'll respond.

Often, she'll decide that since she isn't feeling desire AT THAT MOMENT, then she doesn't want sex and that women shouldn't have sex unless they want to (if they feel aroused).

The husband might not care about her happiness, so feels no obligation to care about his.

Also, giving responsive desire a chance to respond isn't natural. It will only happen if the woman is a natural giver or she recognizes the situation and values the relationship enough to give it a chance.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You’re trying to redefine low desire as responsive desire. Responsive desire, rare as it is, is defined by the responsiveness. Anastasia doesn’t sound like RD either. She just plain old high desire. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

More like the first posts in almost any of his other threads.

It’s the purpose of advanced search. Only reason I didn’t augment my response with ‘um’s half brother duh, is because I’m polite’




Blondilocks said:


> 2500+ posts? Um, I'll pass.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Responsive desire, rare as it is, is defined by the responsiveness.


I believe the science, such as it is, suggests that it's not rare in women. Maybe a third to a half of women tend to respond this way? (Okay I haven't googled for studies, just relying on my memory). 

I quite liked Athol Kay's proposal for a traffic light red/yellow/green response system

Red: I don't want sex, don't even try
Green: Let's do it
And Yellow: I'm not feeling horny right now, but I don't mind if you try to get me to feeling it. 

*None of this works unless the underlying relationship is good.* If there is resentment and manipulation then red/yellow/green is just going to be annoying.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> Funny how this responsive desire only shows up after marriage.
> 
> So once they got you married up then no need to think about sex anymore.
> 
> ...


In terms of showing up after marriage, I dont think it is marriage per se as it is as the relationship becomes long term. All those "new relation feels" are out the door, other responsibilities creep in (family, etc...), as well as complacency.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

anastasia6 said:


> Sounds like the OP has way more problems. But men who discount responsive desire or let it stop them are losing out. My husband literally gets more sex than his 47 year old body Can handle. If you check my early threads you'll see I was concerned with ED because he sometimes loses it when we get to number 9 or more in one week.


I don't think it is necessarily accurate to imply that only men are losing out if they discount RD or let it stop them. Very likely the female (if she doesn't understand/acknowledge her role in this) and relationship is taking a hit as well. My W pretty fits to a T the definition of RD. I have no issues with that, and have never had issues taking the lead. However, over the years as it became pretty much my job solely to maintain our sex life, my interest has just deteriorated, to the point now where I don't initiate anymore (and it doesn't really bother me). Keep in mind as well, I would say based on stories I have read here from others about their sex life (or lack thereof), I am actually in a much better situation (my W never rejects me, always enthusiastic when we have sex, those few times a year we can go away she is always the one rearing to go, etc...). I am just more of an "actions speak louder than words" person, so knowing time and again the moment I stop making the effort months will pass by before we have sex again, it just gets harder and harder to stay interested in a person like that. I can acknowledge that my approach now is by no means the best in any way and that I may be losing out, but so is my W (you can tell there is some confusion/concern on her part with my lack of interest) and so is our marriage (which in all other respects is very strong).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think it is necessarily accurate to imply that only men are losing out if they discount RD or let it stop them. Very likely the female (if she doesn't understand/acknowledge her role in this) and relationship is taking a hit as well. My W pretty fits to a T the definition of RD. I have no issues with that, and have never had issues taking the lead. However, over the years as it became pretty much my job solely to maintain our sex life, my interest has just deteriorated, to the point now where I don't initiate anymore (and it doesn't really bother me). Keep in mind as well, I would say based on stories I have read here from others about their sex life (or lack thereof), I am actually in a much better situation (my W never rejects me, always enthusiastic when we have sex, those few times a year we can go away she is always the one rearing to go, etc...). I am just more of an "actions speak louder than words" person, so knowing time and again the moment I stop making the effort months will pass by before we have sex again, it just gets harder and harder to stay interested in a person like that. I can acknowledge that my approach now is by no means the best in any way and that I may be losing out, but so is my W (you can tell there is some confusion/concern on her part with my lack of interest) and so is our marriage (which in all other respects is very strong).


Geez. That sucks dude!

Maybe that is her perception about sex? Men pursue and women acquiesce?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I agree. Responsive desire is completely different from duty sex — slow to arouse but then engaged and actively participating vs starfish sex.
> 
> ETA: if there are no comments or actions that imply or indicate “ok just get it over with so I can tell myself that I’m fulfilling my duties as a spouse” then I would just go with it. If she is physically responding (moisture, involuntary muscle contractions/spasms, etc) it does not fit into my definition of duty sex.


Yes, but what about her words?

Those hurtful words she blurted out in a moment of anger? 
Those are her true feelings.
At least, commonly so.

I am sure she sometimes gets wrapped up in the moment and enjoys sex.

Even if they were a lie to hurt her husband [in the moment], they are 'about' the lowest blow to a man's pride and ego.

She should have later made an apology; for her words. 
She would have if they were not true. At least I would think so.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Both men and women are delicate creatures.
Some more so than the other, others.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think it is necessarily accurate to imply that only men are losing out if they discount RD or let it stop them. Very likely the female (if she doesn't understand/acknowledge her role in this) and relationship is taking a hit as well. My W pretty fits to a T the definition of RD. I have no issues with that, and have never had issues taking the lead. However, over the years as it became pretty much my job solely to maintain our sex life, my interest has just deteriorated, to the point now where I don't initiate anymore (and it doesn't really bother me). Keep in mind as well, I would say based on stories I have read here from others about their sex life (or lack thereof), I am actually in a much better situation (my W never rejects me, always enthusiastic when we have sex, those few times a year we can go away she is always the one rearing to go, etc...). I am just more of an "actions speak louder than words" person, so knowing time and again the moment I stop making the effort months will pass by before we have sex again, it just gets harder and harder to stay interested in a person like that. I can acknowledge that my approach now is by no means the best in any way and that I may be losing out, but so is my W (you can tell there is some confusion/concern on her part with my lack of interest) and so is our marriage (which in all other respects is very strong).



Just so I understand: if your wife was always RD and you didn’t mind initiating before and she always responded well but more recently you don’t initiate anymore and she is concerned/confused: is it possible that it’s your interest in sex that’s declining, not hers? 
I mean it’s kind of the more common setup where men are SD and women more RD. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Geez. That sucks dude!
> 
> Maybe that is her perception about sex? Men pursue and women acquiesce?





inmyprime said:


> Just so I understand: if your wife was always RD and you didn’t mind initiating before and she always responded well but more recently you don’t initiate anymore and she is concerned/confused: is it possible that it’s your interest in sex that’s declining, not hers?
> I mean it’s kind of the more common setup where men are SD and women more RD.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will respond to these together since i think it will cover both questions.

In terms of perception @ConanHub , I do think in general there is the assumption that men pursue and women acquiesce. That being said, what I think happens with my W, there is the common perception that a stiff breeze will turn a man on. If he is initiating, it mush be simply b/c his hormones are raging, so it is very easy to get things going. That, at least in my experience, is not the case. There are plenty of times I have initiated when I haven't necessarily been in the mood (simply b/c I wanted to be close to her, I knew that once we got going we would be in to it). If she thinks that you only initiate when you are rearing to go, well then you don't initiate otherwise (which if you are of a lower drive becomes more problematic). Another good example, maybe 4-5 years ago, and really no clue where it came from, there was a week where my Ws hormones were going crazy. She wanted to have sex every day, and even that was not enough. She even said to me she had no idea how I could deal with having a high drive because it must drive me crazy wanting sex frequently. So again, high drive made it very easy for her to initiate.

In general, I don't believe anyone is purely RD. If they are RD, it is usually that along with other factors. For example, I would bet that someone who has a lower drive is more likely to experience RD then someone who is higher drive. Combine that with family life, etc...

In terms of your question @inmyprime . My W hasn't always been RD. She has never been high drive per se, and in general I am not high drive (at least where others here consider themselves HD as in wanting sex every day, I am perfectly fine with 2-3x per week). The difference really started when we had kids. which she admits, it is very difficult for her to switch over from being Mom to Wife. This is the reason why, when we go away, she is a completely different person as Mom duties are thrown out the door. Unfortunately, I am not ultra rich so we can't just travel alone every weekend lol, so that still leaves the other 360+ days a year when we are at home. Raising a young family does present its own challenges , no doubt, but making the bare minimal effort in any aspect of your relationship is never a good thing either.

In terms of whether or not my interest has actually declined, good question. I would say that my interest has undoubtedly declined, moreso as a result of frustration and probably protecting myself a little. Maybe a better way to put, if my W came up to me, said that our sex life should be a priority and something she wants to work on, I would be more than ready to go. My decline is likely more a result/defense mechanism then it is an actual drop in drive (although of course my drive is not the same as when I was 18 lol), I do go for a physical in a few months, so I want to see if I can convince my Dr to get my levels tested.

I do think there are other forces at work here as well haha. I try to take days off from work when the kids are all at school, and/or plan a few trips away without the kids. I would say about 80% of time it doesn't work out, either a kid ends up being sick a day I take off, or what seems to happen frequently, when we go away my W gets her period (4 out of the last 5 trips we have gone on over the past 2 years this has been the case, and of course we have trip planned for a few days next week of which sure enough she just got her period today). The man up there has quite the sense of humor


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, but what about her words?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I added the last paragraph in response to her guilt comment — that is really out of line, regardless or how true it actually is or isn’t. I have thrown hurtful spears more than once regarding the lack of frequency in my marriage and so has my H. Some comments are how I feel in that moment, some are true all the time, some are feelings that I had not previously acknowledged consciously, some are an attempt to cause him pain similar to mine. Not excusable in any way but it has happened. 

Regardless of the truth of what has been said, I ALWAYS apologize and he does too. When calmer heads prevail we address those comments and either compromise or agree to disagree. The one statement my H has made that is an ever present wound that has not healed is this: 

“If you were this obsessed with sex and treated your XH like you treat me then I can understand why he chose beating off instead of ****ing you.”

So yeah, I know all about critical blows hurled in the heat of an argument. I am not minimizing her words in any way.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> More like the first posts in almost any of his other threads.
> 
> It’s the purpose of advanced search. Only reason I didn’t augment my response with ‘um’s half brother duh, is because I’m polite’


Don't understand why I would need to do an advanced search to post a suggestion; but, if that is the new rule - okey-dokey.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It’s not a rule, just a suggestion. Feel free to ignore it.




Blondilocks said:


> Don't understand why I would need to do an advanced search to post a suggestion; but, if that is the new rule - okey-dokey.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I added the last paragraph in response to her guilt comment — that is really out of line, regardless or how true it actually is or isn’t. I have thrown hurtful spears more than once regarding the lack of frequency in my marriage and so has my H. Some comments are how I feel in that moment, some are true all the time, some are feelings that I had not previously acknowledged consciously, some are an attempt to cause him pain similar to mine. Not excusable in any way but it has happened.
> 
> Regardless of the truth of what has been said, I ALWAYS apologize and he does too. When calmer heads prevail we address those comments and either compromise or agree to disagree. The one statement my H has made that is an ever present wound that has not healed is this:
> 
> ...


God..

Hurtful..

Sorry.

I too, have been insulted every which way from Sunday. Covering most topics!!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I can acknowledge that my approach now is by no means the best in any way and that I may be losing out, but so is my W (*you can tell there is some confusion/concern on her part with my lack of interest*) and so is our marriage (which in all other respects is very strong).


And yet she says nothing?!!

You really just need to explain it to her. Don't tell her that she needs to change; don't even ask her to.

But she really deserves to know what's going on.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yes don't tell her anything, that will show her, it will improve your marriage, and make you the leader of your family! Not.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

anastasia6 said:


> Yes don't tell her anything, that will show her, it will improve your marriage, and make you the leader of your family! Not.


If it had never been brought up before, this would be a fair criticism.

However, if it has been brought up numerous times, there reaches a point where one just simply stops.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> If it had never been brought up before, this would be a fair criticism.
> 
> However, if it has been brought up numerous times, there reaches a point where one just simply stops.


Or lays down the law.

Happened in my case and Mrs. C stepped up.

I won't be denied because I just can't live a passionless life.

I won't cheat but I won't stay if it ever got to a low point and stayed there.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> And yet she says nothing?!!
> 
> You really just need to explain it to her. Don't tell her that she needs to change; don't even ask her to.
> 
> But she really deserves to know what's going on.


In many ways she does know, this is all stuff I have told her before. I think what she doesn't quite get is how much interest I have lost over all of this. Better put, she has the idea that having sex once will magically fix things. When I stop trying, we go 8 months without sex (actually, there was 1/2 sex in June, just as we started while we were away she got her period lol). Several months ago she wanted to start something in the morning before the kids woke up, so she went to go find me (I was in the bathroom). When she suggested we have sex I told her no. Before I got a chance to explain she had this look like "You gotta be fn kidding me" lol. If there is one thing that will stop me dead in my tracks it is a migraine, and I had woken up with a nasty one that morning (I was in the bathroom b/c I was staying close to a toilet in case i vomited). Once I explained that to her she was fine b/c she knows how bad I get them.

I would like to better understand why I am so complacent over this currently. Is it maybe in part medical, IDK (maybe a piece of the puzzle that can be resolved in a few months when I go for my physical). This biggest difference right now, in the past I would get extremely frustrated with things, she would notice, we would talk about everything, things would get better short term before reverting back. Right now though, no frustration whatsoever, which oddly enough, has me happier (kind of like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders). I understand, what a crappy mentality to have, I agree. Just trying to at least explain why I am not sounding the alarm like I have done in the past.



farsidejunky said:


> If it had never been brought up before, this would be a fair criticism.
> 
> However, if it has been brought up numerous times, there reaches a point where one just simply stops.


Completely agreed. To clarify at least my position, this has been a discussion numerous times. After a while, why have the discussion when you know it will only have a short term effect before things revert back to how they were.

@ConanHub

I do understand and agree with your post regarding laying down the law. The reality though, if you are going to lay down the law, you need to be willing to make good if things don't work out (which is many cases would be getting a D). Right now that is just not a consideration for me. If there were other serious issues in our marriage that would however be a very strong consideration. If we weren't in the middle of raising a young family that would be a strong consideration. I am in no way looking to be a martyr, but as long as we are able provide a healthy and happy environment for the kids, that does take precedent (which does of course mean happiness for myself, which overall is there even though a piece is missing). If you have read some of my other posts as well, you know how strong I feel about fidelity in a marriage, so that is an area I would never dare go.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> In many ways she does know, this is all stuff I have told her before. I think what she doesn't quite get is how much interest I have lost over all of this. Better put, she has the idea that having sex once will magically fix things. When I stop trying, we go 8 months without sex (actually, there was 1/2 sex in June, just as we started while we were away she got her period lol). Several months ago she wanted to start something in the morning before the kids woke up, so she went to go find me (I was in the bathroom). When she suggested we have sex I told her no. Before I got a chance to explain she had this look like "You gotta be fn kidding me" lol. If there is one thing that will stop me dead in my tracks it is a migraine, and I had woken up with a nasty one that morning (I was in the bathroom b/c I was staying close to a toilet in case i vomited). Once I explained that to her she was fine b/c she knows how bad I get them.
> 
> I would like to better understand why I am so complacent over this currently. Is it maybe in part medical, IDK (maybe a piece of the puzzle that can be resolved in a few months when I go for my physical). This biggest difference right now, in the past I would get extremely frustrated with things, she would notice, we would talk about everything, things would get better short term before reverting back. Right now though, no frustration whatsoever, which oddly enough, has me happier (kind of like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders). I understand, what a crappy mentality to have, I agree. Just trying to at least explain why I am not sounding the alarm like I have done in the past.


Just keep in mind that you are up against the life calendar. When menopause hits it may all change for the worse.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> This biggest difference right now, in the past I would get extremely frustrated with things, she would notice, we would talk about everything, things would get better short term before reverting back. Right now though, no frustration whatsoever, which oddly enough, has me happier (kind of like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders). I understand, what a crappy mentality to have, I agree. Just trying to at least explain why I am not sounding the alarm like I have done in the past.


Sounds like you've reached some sort of 'acceptance' stage by giving up. It sucks but I can see how you've reached that point.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I understand @EllisRedding

You know yourself and your limits.

I'm not wired to be denied and will walk no matter what the circumstances if it gets low and stays that way.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> In many ways she does know, this is all stuff I have told her before. I think what she doesn't quite get is how much interest I have lost over all of this. ....


I'm not talking about telling her in order to get her to change her behavior, you've already tried that (although I'm sure she isn't truly aware of how important it was to you).

I'm talking about telling her so that she understands what's going on and is in a position to make informed choices.

Tell her that you've lost interest in pursuing sex with her because you've explained the problem before and she took no steps to improve it. This frustrated you and you've decided that you're less unhappy if you just stop pursuing it.

You're certain that this isn't good for the your happiness, the health of the marriage and, possibly, her happiness. You've tried to address it and just ended up unhappy *and* frustrated.

Tell her that the purpose of the talk isn't to try again to get her to change, you've given up on that. You just want to make sure that she understands what's happening and why.

And, yes, you're probably Low-T (which is actually helpful at the moment). If you were High-T, I doubt you could pull this off so easily.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Let me add my little twist.

I have become an RD spouse out of necessity and self-preservation. I spent too many years lying in bed frustrated from a sexually incompatible relationship. Through some combination of retraining my desire, natural aging, and acceptance of the reality of my situation, I have much less innate interest in sex than I did say five years ago.

I am now happy to wait until my wife needs intimacy, which runs on about a ten day cycle. She lets me know when her interest is up, and I respond on a night when I might otherwise just as soon gone to sleep.

It's not duty sex, it's enjoyable, but now I prefer not being the one to be aroused first.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Let me add my little twist.
> 
> I have become an RD spouse out of necessity and self-preservation. I spent too many years lying in bed frustrated from a sexually incompatible relationship. Through some combination of retraining my desire, natural aging, and acceptance of the reality of my situation, I have much less innate interest in sex than I did say five years ago.
> 
> ...


How do you resist the urge to turn her down and let her feel what you felt all those years?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> How do you resist the urge to turn her down and let her feel what you felt all those years?


Acceptance.

We are a sexually incompatible couple. No one is in need of learning any lessons or receiving my "just vengeance " - as if that would accomplish anything useful anyway.

I have "fixed" the only thing in my relationship over which I ever had any control - my response to our reality.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> How do you resist the urge to turn her down and let her feel what you felt all those years?




I can give an answer to this. I am HD, my H is not. So many times over our 7 year relationship (married 3 1/2 years) I have thought of doing this. Make him feel how miserable he has made me. The reality is that he wouldn’t feel as miserable as I have. It’s just not that much of a priority for him. At the same time, I crave that closeness I only experience during sexual intimacy — my entire body ACHES for it. Denying him would only hurt myself worse and he still would not truly understand how I’ve felt. If I can deny myself that repeatedly then why stay in my marriage?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> ...
> 
> I would like to better understand why I am so complacent over this currently. ....




For my situation, we seem to go up and down with no real reasons that I can think so. I one of the bad dry spells, I felt like this (as in not initiating and such) and was ok to just ride the waves as it were.

On thinking about it more, it is like you can only knock on a door so many times without it being answered. After awhile, why bother knocking on the door if you are conditioned to expect that no one will answer??

Sad but that is what I felt about it anyway.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I can give an answer to this. I am HD, my H is not. So many times over our 7 year relationship (married 3 1/2 years) I have thought of doing this. Make him feel how miserable he has made me. The reality is that he wouldn’t feel as miserable as I have. It’s just not that much of a priority for him. At the same time, I crave that closeness I only experience during sexual intimacy — my entire body ACHES for it. Denying him would only hurt myself worse and he still would not truly understand how I’ve felt. If I can deny myself that repeatedly then why stay in my marriage?


When the urge for revenge is stronger than the desire for intimacy, it's time to just end it anyway.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Noble1 said:


> On thinking about it more, it is like you can only knock on a door so many times without it being answered. After awhile, why bother knocking on the door if you are conditioned to expect that no one will answer??
> 
> 
> 
> Sad but that is what I felt about it anyway.




This is me. If asked why I no longer even attempt to initiate — this is my response. The pain of rejection is (at this time) far greater than the pleasure and connection I would experience if my initiation was successful. 

In fact, I have made a conscious decision to not visibly react in any way to any stimulus that may indicate H is wanting physical intimacy — unless it very blatantly clear that he IS initiating. I try to not even *look* at his groin, even when showering together, because I cannot allow myself even a glimmer of hope for sexual intimacy — I cannot endure the disappointment and pain I feel when I have seen an erection that I am not invited to experience. Yes, I understand erections do not equal physical desire and many times are involuntary — but the hope I feel upon seeing an erection is also involuntary.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> Noble1 said:
> 
> 
> > On thinking about it more, it is like you can only knock on a door so many times without it being answered. After awhile, why bother knocking on the door if you are conditioned to expect that no one will answer??
> ...


It's time to end this relationship! It sounds like a very sad experience!!


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

This is my situation:
I initiate about 80%. Almost never get duty sex any more (used to). Sometimes the initiation takes a lot more effort than average. I take this as RD. She needs to be warmed up. I think it some of the extra warming is the need to de-stress. It really does describe my relationship.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Men start treating her like mom. Women start thinking of him as son....or just another responsibility. Even sex can feel that way, even though it feels good. 

Something happens with brain chemistry. I remember looking this up before, but not sure where I read it. Some of the chemicals that were there to make us horny fall away and others take over. It read like it is normal biology. 

That's why you have to try to treat her like you did when you were dating. Now, I don't mean to treat her like you are an animal, but you worked for that when you were dating. You took it when it was offered. You were sweet, but you were sure and didn't feel like she had to do it, but that you earned it. 

Still, she has to give the go ahead. You can't take it. It's not like that.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Acceptance.
> 
> We are a sexually incompatible couple. No one is in need of learning any lessons or receiving my "just vengeance " - as if that would accomplish anything useful anyway.
> 
> I have "fixed" the only thing in my relationship over which I ever had any control - my response to our reality.




Are you sure you are not mistaking it over the general decline in sexual libido? The libido is never the same, it changes over time. It’s pretty normal to expect it to decline for men. Women’s libido declines later. At least that’s what I have read.
I think it’s a reasonable response to be unhappy when sexual needs aren’t met, I’m not sure it would be reasonable to (implicitly) blame spouse for decline in overall libido as well.

I’m not at the stage quite yet. I’m 37 and I do need need it every other day. I would prefer every day but my wife doesn’t know it. I told her I get physically uncomfortable after two days without her so she kind of expects me to initiate or initiates it herself (by initiating herself it’s usually a complaint why I’m not initiating or some other hint that has little to do with actual initiating) every 2-3 days or so. She seems quite surprised if I initiate two days in a row and I have a slight feeling that it’s because it’s her night where she can feel she's ‘off the hook’.

I realise this might also be my imagination...How the hell does one REALLY know what goes on in the other person’s head.
We can only guess but I always try not to assume the most negative thing.
Reading some posts makes me sometimes worry that there may but be a bit of projection going on. Not minding anymore when there’s no sex may just mean a general decline in sex drive, not that it’s the spouse who trained you to become like that. Though it could also be combination of the two. I just think that (and that’s how I feel when I am a bit desperate) if the desire is really strong, it will overpower other considerations that may be more rational.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I can give an answer to this. I am HD, my H is not. So many times over our 7 year relationship (married 3 1/2 years) I have thought of doing this. Make him feel how miserable he has made me. The reality is that he wouldn’t feel as miserable as I have. It’s just not that much of a priority for him. At the same time, I crave that closeness I only experience during sexual intimacy — my entire body ACHES for it. Denying him would only hurt myself worse and he still would not truly understand how I’ve felt. If I can deny myself that repeatedly then why stay in my marriage?



Yeah that wouldn’t work. That’s why I never even thunk of doing it, even if I was at a low. You have to deny something that’s much higher up on the list of the spouse’s priorities, if you wanted to make a point. I don’t, but sometimes I wonder how else to explain it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Livvie said:


> It's time to end this relationship! It sounds like a very sad experience!!




Or end that erection! (What the hell would he have an ‘involuntary’ erection about that you wouldn’t be allowed to voluntarily experience? Insanity. Very sorry.)


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

/


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## Notself (Aug 25, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Sorry, for the ramble. Really hope this can get better for you.


It's pretty obvious the only way this can get better for either one of them is for them to split.


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