# Infidelity or just innocent



## Heats of oak

Hey all

slightly confused; is it wrong that my wife wanted to communicate with another man, even though he is a few thousand miles away and is an old friend from 30yrs ago..she left her skype account open a few days back and I noticed that she had a friendship acceptance form this chap, which then prompted me to investigate further, I did the wrong thing and checked her email the next day and saw that she had sent this contact an email informing him that I ad seen the request and it would better to wait for things to calm down before they speak..and if there was anything further he should contact her via her "other" facebook account, she denies having another account and said that it was his..but she can't make a simple mistake with the verb to be being a teacher!

Anyway we argued and heatedly discussed this, she failed to see that she had done wrong or was about to do wrong, she was never going to tell me she was communicating with this guy when I asked her about it as she says "I am jealous of all her male friends" not true..she has other male friends but she does not contact "them" via skype...my issue is not the fact she has male friends, but the way in which she was due to communicate with this particular guy is what negged me out a bit..I removed skype but later re-installed it as she does need to communicate with her family as they are all in Latin America and we have kids together and I really want to make this work for them, well of course my wife and I too.

We are however making headway, I have promised to stop being nosey and leave her email account alone, she has come out of her shell a tad more and is not spending 3hrs on facebook..although I now sleep with "one eye open" she has re-contacted this guy as I said that I could keep her from talking to anybody and I would want to, but I have made it clear that she will not be communicating through skype with this guy. She also says that she concerned about my lack of trust and that she feels she needs "privacy" and that my jealousy and checking emails has "freaked her out!" I know I have my issues and am dealing with them, but I think something is not quite right..pls comment!!!


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## lascarx

Heats of oak said:


> she feels she needs "privacy"


No problem. Tell her that privacy is for singles and that's what you plan to let her become soon unless she gets with the program of being married.




Heats of oak said:


> saw that she had sent this contact an email informing him that I ad seen the request and it would better to wait for things to calm down before they speak..and if there was anything further he should contact her via her "other" facebook account, she denies having another account and said that it was his


Don't beat around the bush. Tell her that lying and weasel-wording are as bad as cheating in your book and she's got 24 hours to come clean about everything before you assume the worst. Don't let her jerk your chain unless you want her going after this fellow. Show her that you will first be listened to before you will listen.




Heats of oak said:


> I know I have my issues and am dealing with them,


What issues? You don't want your wife running around and talking to other men behind your back. Friend, it's an electronic-communications age and only rubes and babies don't know the dangers of that. Lay down the law.


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## Shamwow

Sorry Heats...

Yeah...she's probably been "inappropriate" with this guy for a while now. Who knows the extent, hopefully minimal for your sake. Does she travel for work, or has she been out of town lately for something or other?

She's angry that she got caught...especially since she seems pretty tech savvy, if she knew you had seen the Skype request.

The fact that she claims she's done no wrong in this says either you two have too few boundaries in place in your relationship...or...she is in the fog of affair and will justify her actions in any way possible before admitting what she's been hiding. Or both. Anyway, she wouldn't hide it if she didn't feel it was wrong. It hurts to be lied to.

Tell her it has nothing to do with jealousy/snooping. She's hiding communications with other men from you, she's made an emotional bond with the OM, probably talking about your marriage with him (which she should be doing with you)...and she wants you to feel crazy for being concerned?

Take charge of the situation, don't be angry, don't beg or plead. Just confer to her that you deserve her respect and she isn't giving it to you. Good luck...


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## Heats of oak

Thanks for that..makes sense. Your right I think its a tad harsh for her to be doing this, could it be a case of lacking any attraction for me which is why she is on FB so much?..that is what I have deducted from this whole thing, we are now getting in much better (intimately) but the need to have this guy as contact is whats bugging me..I have also told her that the emotional energy she would be putting into this contact would quite clearly constitute to "emotional affair". seems that we cant find a mutual ground on this topic and it flairs up to heated discussions..She also thinks it is impossible to have feelings for someone who lives x-amount of miles away...is she really that Naive??


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## Initfortheduration

All cheaters want their privacy. She lied to you. Wasn't going to tell you. Then tells you she wants her privacy. Its simple lie to her. Keep checking her stuff and install a keylogger on the computer. I will guarantee that if you put a keylogger on it, you will find secret e-mail accounts and further contact.


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## Heats of oak

Shamwow said:


> Sorry Heats...
> 
> Yeah...she's probably been "inappropriate" with this guy for a while now. Who knows the extent, hopefully minimal for your sake. Does she travel for work, or has she been out of town lately for something or other?
> 
> She's angry that she got caught...especially since she seems pretty tech savvy, if she knew you had seen the Skype request.
> 
> The fact that she claims she's done no wrong in this says either you two have too few boundaries in place in your relationship...or...she is in the fog of affair and will justify her actions in any way possible before admitting what she's been hiding. Or both. Anyway, she wouldn't hide it if she didn't feel it was wrong. It hurts to be lied to.
> 
> Tell her it has nothing to do with jealousy/snooping. She's hiding communications with other men from you, she's made an emotional bond with the OM, probably talking about your marriage with him (which she should be doing with you)...and she wants you to feel crazy for being concerned?
> 
> Take charge of the situation, don't be angry, don't beg or plead. Just confer to her that you deserve her respect and she isn't giving it to you. Good luck...


She does not work at the moment and is somewhat depressed by it all and is far from home, wants to remember old friends, needs constant reminders that shes a great person (which I do always tell her). she claims she would never disclose "our" relationship to him (don't believe that for a minute) I have never put pressure on her to get a job as I know first hand the lengthy processes involved and have stressed that it will happen but she needs to keep trying, on the other hand it could all be down to menopause too as she is now + side of 40 so..who knows??.


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## AngryandUsed

Shamwow said:


> Sorry Heats...
> 
> Yeah...she's probably been "inappropriate" with this guy for a while now. Who knows the extent, hopefully minimal for your sake. Does she travel for work, or has she been out of town lately for something or other?
> 
> She's angry that she got caught...especially since she seems pretty tech savvy, if she knew you had seen the Skype request.
> 
> The fact that she claims she's done no wrong in this says either you two have too few boundaries in place in your relationship...or...she is in the fog of affair and will justify her actions in any way possible before admitting what she's been hiding. Or both. Anyway, she wouldn't hide it if she didn't feel it was wrong. It hurts to be lied to.
> 
> Tell her it has nothing to do with jealousy/snooping. She's hiding communications with other men from you, she's made an emotional bond with the OM, probably talking about your marriage with him (which she should be doing with you)...and she wants you to feel crazy for being concerned?
> 
> Take charge of the situation, don't be angry, don't beg or plead. Just confer to her that you deserve her respect and she isn't giving it to you. Good luck...


:iagree:
Why has she hidden the communication with that guy? Red flag. Take care and charge as Shamwow said.


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## Chaparral

Heats of oak said:


> She does not work at the moment and is somewhat depressed by it all and is far from home, wants to remember old friends, needs constant reminders that shes a great person (which I do always tell her). she claims she would never disclose "our" relationship to him (don't believe that for a minute) I have never put pressure on her to get a job as I know first hand the lengthy processes involved and have stressed that it will happen but she needs to keep trying, on the other hand it could all be down to menopause too as she is now + side of 40 so..who knows??.


Quit making excuses for her, she's making enough for herself. If she's telling him to cool it for a bit and use another hidden acct, she's in a full blown emotional affair. Thats assuming he has not traveled to your area yet. No you cant trust her get the keylogger on the computer asap.

Have you checked the text records on your phone bill?


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## lascarx

Heats of oak said:


> I have never put pressure on her to get a job


She might not want to get a job, but she'll be giving jobs of various sorts unless you clamp down on this and quick.


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## happyman64

Heats,

It is very simple. She lied to you. You cannot tolerate that type of disrespect.

She has some issues.

Initfor the duration is right. There is more probably going on.

I would keep an eye open. I would also install a keylogger to stay aware of her online activities.

There is no privacy in my marriage of 19 years unless my wife is in the bathrom. We both prefer it that way.

Be smart. trust your gut.

HM64


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## alliwantislove

if your wife says she wants privacy, you should know that she is up to no good. Well at least that was my ex reason for "privacy". I agree with lascarx, privacy is only for single person. when you are married, you share everything. And I don't think you are being nosy for checking her email. that is what ppl do when they suspect their partner cheating. you have every right to do what you are doing and you should continue doing it.


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## Heats of oak

chapparal said:


> Quit making excuses for her, she's making enough for herself. If she's telling him to cool it for a bit and use another hidden acct, she's in a full blown emotional affair. Thats assuming he has not traveled to your area yet. No you cant trust her get the keylogger on the computer asap.
> 
> Have you checked the text records on your phone bill?


I have not..but am sure that I caught in the nick of time..saying that she has gotten back in touch with him..I have also installed a keylogger on the laptop now..how should I approach it? I have mentioned that I am involved in a forum and that I have also sought council and her face dropped a few shades of white I must say..


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## Chaparral

She should be happy for the both of you to share each others passwords to emails phones computers etc. If she doesn't belive in no secrets in a marriage, you have to do what you have to do to get inormation.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Shaggy

Wow - you caught her red handed setting up a way to contact him AND a backup plan to keep it underground AND her warning him on how to handle you being suspicious.

Even it is WASN'T her secret account - you know it was - but if it wasn't here is a guy setting up a secret backdoor communication with your wife.

THEN you let her cower you into agreeing to let it all happen, to let her have secret private communication methods etc.

I highly suspect there has already been inappropriate exchanges with them and they are setting up ways to escalate it. The skype video will likely help them have some fun face-2-face cyber play. So be on the watch for that and be on the watch for him visiting your area or her having to go on a "girls" trip to where he lives.

In short - they ARE doing everything an active affair does.

I don't think you did catch her in the nick of time, I think you caught her doing one part of it. The mistake you made was revealing to her what and how you knew it. Now he and she will take it underground in other ways.

I would in addition to the keylogger, you should put a VAR in her car and near the computer. Since he is in a different time zone, she's likely doing the dirty stuff while your out at work.

At this point you really should assume the worst - that they are having an affair and it's gone underground. 

Find out about this old flame - is her married or have a GF. Find their contact info and if there is cheating going on - before you confront your wife - you contact the OMW and tell her what's going on.


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## Heats of oak

Shaggy said:


> Wow - you caught her red handed setting up a way to contact him AND a backup plan to keep it underground AND her warning him on how to handle you being suspicious.
> 
> Even it is WASN'T her secret account - you know it was - but if it wasn't here is a guy setting up a secret backdoor communication with your wife.
> 
> THEN you let her cower you into agreeing to let it all happen, to let her have secret private communication methods etc.
> 
> I highly suspect there has already been inappropriate exchanges with them and they are setting up ways to escalate it. The skype video will likely help them have some fun face-2-face cyber play. So be on the watch for that and be on the watch for him visiting your area or her having to go on a "girls" trip to where he lives.
> 
> In short - they ARE doing everything an active affair does.
> 
> I don't think you did catch her in the nick of time, I think you caught her doing one part of it. The mistake you made was revealing to her what and how you knew it. Now he and she will take it underground in other ways.
> 
> I would in addition to the keylogger, you should put a VAR in her car and near the computer. Since he is in a different time zone, she's likely doing the dirty stuff while your out at work.
> 
> At this point you really should assume the worst - that they are having an affair and it's gone underground.
> 
> Find out about this old flame - is her married or have a GF. Find their contact info and if there is cheating going on - before you confront your wife - you contact the OMW and tell her what's going on.


He is an old school friend from some time ago, lives in South America (where the wife is from) and is not married...I have seen a conversation they had on skype which was innocent..but thats how it all starts..she sent an email to her friend saying that I was jealous that she wanted to contact old friends but failed to mention that she wanted privacy with this guy and that she never told me nor was going to tell me about him..red flag..I think so..


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## warlock07

Heats of oak said:


> I have not..but am sure that I caught in the nick of time..saying that she has gotten back in touch with him..I have also installed a keylogger on the laptop now..how should I approach it? I have mentioned that I am involved in a forum and that I have also sought council and her face dropped a few shades of white I must say..



Why? So that she can find out that you set up a keylogger? She will just be more careful now.


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## Heats of oak

warlock07 said:


> Why? So that she can find out that you set up a keylogger? She will just be more careful now.


Pretty sure she knows not about key loggers, she is more concerned with my checking emails and stuff...but I will again press her for another chat later today and sift out all the BS and take a firm stance over this, as it is clear upon all of the replies to my thread, and also my gut instincts..she is hiding something..or...well I ain't too sure what else..


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## Mamatomany

Woman's perspective about old bfs/fb

I found some on FB through mutual friends and some found me. I got married young so many of my old bfs were from my childhood (prior to 16). We caught up on career, kids, life, family... all through fb that my H had access to. That was it. Sometimes curiosity about how people are doing and what became of them and mutual friends is all that there is. We moved away from where we grew up so it allowed us to catch up on childhood friends. 

My H had all my passwords and if he wanted them ever again he would get them. I have nothing to hide. I believe transparency is about respect/trust. My H currently doesn't feel the same though:-/ 

Good luck on getting your wife to see it from your pov. Have you asked her how she would feel if it were reversed?


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## Heats of oak

I have and she of course would not like it one bit..not sure what to think now though..she most probs is playing me..trouble being we have 3 daughters together..young ones too..confused.com


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> I have not..but am sure that I caught in the nick of time..saying that she has gotten back in touch with him..I have also installed a keylogger on the laptop now..how should I approach it? I have mentioned that I am involved in a forum and that I have also sought council and her face dropped a few shades of white I must say..


Here is my take , she has a second facebook account, she is using it or other means to contact the other guy, she is laying low because she knows you are watching . All of these are exactly what waywards in affairs do.

What to do;

You have a keylogger , good.
Is the other guy married or has a he a significant other?
Find the wife or SO and if you suspect this is indeed an affair contact them.
Do not let her know of this forum, this is your secure place. As you have told her I suggest you ask for this to be moved to the private forum.
Don't be fooled by the increase in intimacy or attention , these actions are standard for waywards trying to cover the affair.
Insist there is to be zero contact between her and this guy.

Its not for you to monitor her for the rest of her life , when ready mention to her you will never accept an affair and will protect yourself and marriage from adultery.

Often there is a hidden affair phone , have a look round but don't be paranoid about searching for one, you already know there is an probable emotional affair or the start of one. Be patient , confident , work on yourself , don't beg , be clingy or weak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

A married person should never be doing anything, saying anything, touching anything to a person of the opposite sex, that they would not being OK doing in front of their spouse.

Nothing. 

If you are doing anything like that, you are beginning to cheat at least in the sense of care, respect and love. You are putting a relationship with another person ahead of your relationship with your spouse. And that is cheating on your spouse and your marriage.

Your wife seems intent on down playing and blame shifting as well as gas lighting you. 

Remember this isn't a court of law where you are seeking to prove and convict her.

This is you the spouse, telling her your boundaries in the relationship, and asking her to put your feelings and marriage first in her actions and her life.


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Here is my take , she has a second facebook account, she is using it or other means to contact the other guy, she is laying low because she knows you are watching . All of these are exactly what waywards in affairs do.
> 
> What to do;
> 
> You have a keylogger , good.
> Is the other guy married or has a he a significant other?
> Find the wife or SO and if you suspect this is indeed an affair contact them.
> Do not let her know of this forum, this is your secure place. As you have told her I suggest you ask for this to be moved to the private forum.
> Don't be fooled by the increase in intimacy or attention , these actions are standard for waywards trying to cover the affair.
> Insist there is to be zero contact between her and this guy.
> 
> You cannot monitor her for the rest of her life and when ready mention to her you will never accept an affair and will protect yourself and marriage from adultery.
> 
> Often there is a hidden affair phone , have a look round but don't be paranoid about searching for one, you already know there is an probable emotional affair or the start of one. Be patient , confident , work on yourself , don't beg , be clingy or weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No he is not married as far as I know..just an old friend from school a long time ago..thanks for the advice..I am sooo unsure as to what to do and believe..she is from Latin America and if worst case scenario...my kids would be back there...


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## Eli-Zor

Read the newbies thread, if this is a full blown affair having foresight of what to do next will help prepare you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Your in the watching phase , don't lose it and don't panic. You may have caught this early .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Heats of oak said:


> No he is not married as far as I know..just an old friend from school a long time ago..thanks for the advice..I am sooo unsure as to what to do and believe..she is from Latin America and if worst case scenario...my kids would be back there...


Verify this - he may be lying even to her btw.

As for your kids going there - Nope. They stay right where they are as do you. If she's cheating , she leaves the family.


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## Heats of oak

Ok..all this despite the fact that I have had my moments too...and "HAVE STOPPED" all the stupidity I carried out?


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## Gabriel

You need to do three things

1) stop blaming yourself or apologizing to us, or to her, for sticking up for your marriage

2) firmly, gently, and lovingly, tell your wife that she must stop talking to her old flame, now. This a condition of the marriage going forward.

3) watch her like a hawk and do NOT reveal how you are doing so. Telling her about this forum is a big no-no.


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Your in the watching phase , don't lose it and don't panic. You may have caught this early .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have just told her that she is completely lying and that she needs to decide whether or not to cease this contact illicitly or otherwise or we discuss the relationship with lawyers..her jaw dropped...


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> Have just told her that she is completely lying and that she needs to decide whether or not to cease this contact illicitly or otherwise or we discuss the relationship with lawyers..her jaw dropped...


Be firm and don't waver and as for the OM call his parents and siblings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

If she pulls the privacy comment again remind her privacy is for the bathroom anything else is deceipt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> Have just told her that she is completely lying and that she needs to decide whether or not to cease this contact illicitly or otherwise or we discuss the relationship with lawyers..her jaw dropped...


Excellent


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## Heats of oak

She has not been on the laptop all night..apart from a few minutes..asked me for if I wanted a cup of tea..I refused..no words have been exchanged since I told her what the score was..is this normal?..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> She has not been on the laptop all night..apart from a few minutes..asked me for if I wanted a cup of tea..I refused..no words have been exchanged since I told her what the score was..is this normal?..


Yes, inwardly she is working out what to do next . 

Edited: Often waywards are the greatest actors or actresses. In the meanwhile be calm , polite , don't show any anger, determine how long you are prepared to wait for her to give you a commitment . If she does calmly give her a copy of the template no contact letter and send it to the OM. If she does not start running the 180.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

Eli-Zor said:


> Yes, inwardly she is working out what to do next .
> 
> Edited: Often waywards are the greatest actors or actresses. In the meanwhile be calm , polite , don't show any anger, determine how long you are prepared to wait for her to give you a commitment . If she does calmly give her a copy of the template no contact letter and send it to the OM. If she does not start running the 180.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:

This is not the end of things, she's planning her next move. I'd keep up with the 180/manning up advice and not give an inch until you're satisfied she's ceased all contact with the other man and most importantly apologises for her actions.


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## Mamatomany

Heats of oak said:


> Ok..all this despite the fact that I have had my moments too...and "HAVE STOPPED" all the stupidity I carried out?


You mention you played a part in this, do you care to share? I do think it takes two to let the marriage get where it has gone... where she is looking for another person's attention. Neglect? Too high of expectations? Friends outside of her where she may be limited because of her job status and living far from home?

I take much of the blame for making my H feel the way he does, I didn't make him feel like he needed from me and I can say the same for him. It takes two, but once she steps on that other side and crosses the line that's on her.


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## the guy

:iagree:
It takes 2 to have a messed up marriage, and that in it self is its own issue. 
To make a choice to commit this kind of crime and have the moral compose to justify it or lack of...then its a individual issue all by its self. 

You did not have any part in her having an affair, she could have taken the tough road and left you then find someone else.

Waywards love to make excusses in why they are wired the way they are and the unhealthy choices they make, it has noting to do with the betrayed...IMHO

Even perfect marriages have infidelity!


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## Heats of oak

Mamatomany said:


> You mention you played a part in this, do you care to share? I do think it takes two to let the marriage get where it has gone... where she is looking for another person's attention. Neglect? Too high of expectations? Friends outside of her where she may be limited because of her job status and living far from home?
> 
> I take much of the blame for making my H feel the way he does, I didn't make him feel like he needed from me and I can say the same for him. It takes two, but once she steps on that other side and crosses the line that's on her.


It was not so much I played a part, but I have been silly in the past..so this could be "penance".."karma" call it what you will..but when I was "told off" I stopped. We have since put that to bed.."I smoke" but not always, I am black..(always) and am about to begin a BSc and feel that maybe this has a part to do with it..I am aware of how attraction can ware of, without us knowing this and I mentioned this to her..and its true..so I know I have to sort things out and arouse that attracion again..anyways. Yes she is living far from home and is not working..(she teahches) I am aware that all of this is having a massive stress infulled tension effect on her that can only be dealt with by finding atttraction in something else..she wants to be in contact with peeps who speak her langauge..I do, fluently..but I get the feeling that..I have to do a bit too...


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## Heats of oak

Mamatomany said:


> You mention you played a part in this, do you care to share? I do think it takes two to let the marriage get where it has gone... where she is looking for another person's attention. Neglect? Too high of expectations? Friends outside of her where she may be limited because of her job status and living far from home?
> 
> I take much of the blame for making my H feel the way he does, I didn't make him feel like he needed from me and I can say the same for him. It takes two, but once she steps on that other side and crosses the line that's on her.


I do most if the housework, I get the kids up in the morning most days..I make beds, breakfast, hoover, clean, have fun (fool around with kids) offer to all go out for a walk along the seafront, initialise intimate contact (only recently has she begun to do it) suggest things..I dont know!!


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## Heats of oak

its all started to et aggressive now!..shes asking whats wrong withme?..whyam I being so..blah..blah..blah..(I am not reacting..drinking brew..chilling..she is the one raising voices...


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## bmichael

Heats of oak said:


> I do most if the housework, I get the kids up in the morning most days..I make beds, breakfast, hoover, clean, have fun (fool around with kids) offer to all go out for a walk along the seafront, initialise intimate contact (only recently has she begun to do it) suggest things..I dont know!!


Sounds like me. My reward was my wife's EA. Should have told her to get off her butt and do half or hit the road.


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## Eli-Zor

Perhaps your doing to much , your a giver , in any relationship you both give and take in equal measure. With your wife not working she can pick up a lot of the housework. You should reset the understanding of who does what, get your confidence back and insist on equal share.

On the affair side you should know if she is indeed in an emotional affair and if she has been for a while they are often harder to break than a physical only affair . 
A further item you should understand is do not fear losing her, it is this fear a wayward relies on to control you , it is this fear that stops a betrayed spouse from taking the steps to protect themselves and their marriage. If it comes to the worse make sure you secure your children and they stay with you in your current country of residence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> its all started to et aggressive now!..shes asking whats wrong withme?..whyam I being so..blah..blah..blah..(I am not reacting..drinking brew..chilling..she is the one raising voices...


Remain calm , when ready sit down and ask her to be honest . Do not get excited or pent up as she is likely to be evasive and even threatening . Then request she goes no contact on this guy and sends the NC letter. I suspect she will be pretty angry and refuse , blame you and imply your making it worse by not trusting her.

Don't fight her or engage in a useless argument as it weakens your position. Be firm and consistant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Remain calm , when ready sit down and ask her to be honest . Do not get excited or pent up as she is likely to be evasive and even threatening . Then request she goes no contact on this guy and sends the NC letter. I suspect she will be pretty angry and refuse , blame you and imply your making it worse by not trusting her.
> 
> Don't fight her or engage in a useless argument as it weakens your position. Be firm and consistant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so this is it?..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> so this is it?..


And do not doubt yourself , you know what you saw , your gut tells you something is up . What counts now is the way you carry this forward and how you deal with it.

If she continues to claim Innocence she should have no problem removing him from her life.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CruxAve

Sounds like a recipe for good marriage.


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## Despair

Heats of oak said:


> so this is it?..


Yes, this is it my friend. I was in your position not to long ago myself, please listen to others and just realize that you are in your rights on all this. 

I was made to feel like a bully which was my down fall, I hope for the best with you and your situation. You are not at fault, stay strong. Like somebody else already stated, remain firm and dont get caught in useless arguement.


----------



## the guy

It sound like she is pissed off that she no longer has a doormat any more!


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> And do not doubt yourself , you know what you saw , your gut tells you something is up . What counts now is the way you carry this forward and how you deal with it.
> 
> If she continues to claim Innocence she should have no problem removing him from her life.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


have just sent the guy an email telling him to stay away..she is upset..claimz its all in my head..an old friend..blah..blah..im drunk..so on,,,


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## Shamwow

Totally understand the urge to drink right now, but it's not going to help you with this situation. If you must, don't do it around her. More importantly, you're going to need your head on straight to deal with the mess that's coming. Hang in there...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

And def stop drunk-dialing/texting/emailing with anyone involved in this. Hurts your credibility.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

too late..mate..dunnit!.. she is pissed..started talking bout what I done an stuff..crying at how much this is unfair and forgivenes...


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## Remains

Mate, she shld be doing the hard work and not you. so much damage done and yet she is trying to shift blame. That is not someone who is trying to make things better. Someone who is trying to solve the problems in the relationship. She shifts the blame to u =she carries on with her damaging behaviour. Do not stand for it! I have done the same, it has meant that we are still at the 1st step for last 8 months. In fact we are behind that because he has put so many barriers in way of resolving and sorting the issue, so we are behind now on the initial process of recovery, due to the barriers. Nothing addressed, nothing made better. I have been in turmoil all that time, am now seeing a counsellor to deal with all the sh*t in my life, my ex and his behaviour, how it affects my kids, my kids behaviour to me, and then I have my current partner screwing with my head also. All too much. If I was susceptible to mental illness I wd have had a breakdown by now. For sure. Sort it out, and stand strong. Know what you need to do and do not waver. Do not show any weakness or she will pounce on it and use it to her great advantage. That is what they do. Good luck, u will need it. Xx


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> have just sent the guy an email telling him to stay away..she is upset..claimz its all in my head..an old friend..blah..blah..im drunk..so on,,,


Be on your best behaviour , give up the drink, smile, be gracious , do not seek confrontation or argument . Behave normally , not cold or distant . In a few days when it is calmer assess where you are, this assumes that you do not find anything compromising on the keylogger or elsewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

I will do..last night was a bit of a mad one!!..have bags packed..I guess a little to irrational..wanted to go to my parents for a few days...but I guess that is a no no..have also sent an email to her cousin (who is a great guy) with the email she sent to this "OM"..i guess that too is a no no..I am so alone right now..dont know what to do who to talk to..kinda dark place right now..and I hate putting on the act..like nothing has happened..but gonna have to play the game I guess...


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## Eli-Zor

Stay at home. If the cousin comes back simpley keep to the line that her behaviour suggests a long distance emotional affair and you are doing what you can to protect your marriage.

Read the 180 , you can implement a lot of the steps especialy those that help you control your emotions.

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Be careful not to run this to hard especialy at this stage as it can drive your wife away. Use it to get a tighter grip on yourself while you wait out your wife's reactions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnnycomelately

Eli-Zor said:


> Here is my take , she has a second facebook account, she is using it or other means to contact the other guy, she is laying low because she knows you are watching . All of these are exactly what waywards in affairs do.
> 
> What to do;
> 
> You have a keylogger , good.
> Is the other guy married or has a he a significant other?
> Find the wife or SO and if you suspect this is indeed an affair contact them.
> Do not let her know of this forum, this is your secure place. As you have told her I suggest you ask for this to be moved to the private forum.
> Don't be fooled by the increase in intimacy or attention , these actions are standard for waywards trying to cover the affair.
> Insist there is to be zero contact between her and this guy.
> 
> Its not for you to monitor her for the rest of her life , when ready mention to her you will never accept an affair and will protect yourself and marriage from adultery.
> 
> Often there is a hidden affair phone , have a look round but don't be paranoid about searching for one, you already know there is an probable emotional affair or the start of one. Be patient , confident , work on yourself , don't beg , be clingy or weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why I suggested you post in the Coping W Inf. forum. This is good advice.

Good luck.


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Be careful not to run this to hard especialy at this stage as it can drive your wife away. Use it to get a tighter grip on yourself while you wait out your wife's reactions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear you..I have been as you mention..distant but not too distant..carried on as per normal, made her tea and breakfast as I always do..she has begun convos, the cousin is in Chile, all i did was to send him the email that she had sent the OM and that is it have also asked him to keep it under his hat (pretty sure he will) start back in the gym tomorrow hopefully and yes gonna get MYSELF back..I need to..for my sake and more importantly my daughters. Going to avoid all heated discussions and stay well away from relationship talk..


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## Eli-Zor

I guess at the moment your reading the posts but not necessarily absorbing all that is said or know what to expect next. This is normal as your thoughts and emotions will be all over the place. You may not realise this now but your wife knows she has been caught out , as per the affair script will try turn this on you and make out its you and your insecurities. Knowing his allows you to control your words and take measured steps to protect your marriage . Once she has past her denial stage she will see this.

This is a slow process, it takes time and as you have been a giver, what she sees is a beta . Your tactic is to be firm, be consistent about the marriage boundaries especialy with contact with other men and balance out the household work. Become more alpha , lead by your calm words and firm actions.

Remind yourself : her claim to privacy is a way to cover her inappropriate relationship with another man. As I said before privacy is for the bathroom secrecy is deceit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

am reading and putting all into practice..step by step and yes I am in a state of turmoil, want to hold her, but know that would just play into her hands..she told me yesterday that she had been in contact with the OM for around 6days before I found out...which I doubt and would imagine it to be somewhere around 2-3wks maybe more...


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> am reading and putting all into practice..step by step and yes I am in a state of turmoil, want to hold her, but know that would just play into her hands..she told me yesterday that she had been in contact with the OM for around 6days before I found out...which I doubt and would imagine it to be somewhere around 2-3wks maybe more...


I agree it will have been a lot longer, typically a wayward will try make contact when they get the first opportunity. In your case sometime next week when your at work , expect this, make sure the keylogger is working. I would be surprised if she does not at least try. If she suspects your tracking the laptop she may go to a friend to use their equipment or if she has a iPhone or such like with Internet access.

Whatever you do don't get paranoid and look for things that are not there as it adds to your pain. Today you know she was engaged in a long distance EA , you caught her , you can forecast her next steps . You have a plan to follow, part of that is to be less of a giver , get her out to work and balance the household tasks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Thank you..I am at work now..work almost everyday..so she has time to do what she pleases on the pc..


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## Shaggy

Do you have a VAR in place at home to hear what she is saying on the phone or Skype?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

No..we don't..I think that the keylogger I installed will capture all voice comms..she did ask me this morning (as I left for work) if I was going to work now..and that I should have a good day..


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## Eli-Zor

The var is a must have tool
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Are you sure the keylogger captures voice? Many just take pictures of the screen or record the keys pressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Get a var for home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Last night I had a couple of beers and she mentioned that I would be all lovey dovey in the morning and that I would regret..have not done anything like that..have not ignored, but have not showed her the affection that she would normally expect after a tiff and she looks very solem and upset..has not been near the laptop as much as she would do normally..


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## Heats of oak

Shaggy said:


> Are you sure the keylogger captures voice? Many just take pictures of the screen or record the keys pressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it just captures images and key strokes..just had another look at it..


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## Heats of oak

Just checked the keylogger and bingo! she had sent this OM another email telling him that I had sent an email to him telling him to stay away and that he should ignore at and not to reply to it and to not reply the email she was sending either..is she guilty?...I confronted her about it (I know) and true to from denied any wrong doing and that she does not see why she had to leave communications with him as he is just a friend. She claimed if I loved her I would believe her..she flipped again..told her that was that and to make arrangements to leave..I have contacted solicitors and asked for a meeting as the kids will end up in South America...I am screwed!!


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## Heats of oak

Heats of oak said:


> Just checked the keylogger and bingo! she had sent this OM another email telling him that I had sent an email to him telling him to stay away and that he should ignore at and not to reply to it and to not reply the email she was sending either..is she guilty?...I confronted her about it (I know) and true to from denied any wrong doing and that she does not see why she had to leave communications with him as he is just a friend. She claimed if I loved her I would believe her..she flipped again..told her that was that and to make arrangements to leave..I have contacted solicitors and asked for a meeting as the kids will end up in South America...I am screwed!!


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## Eli-Zor

Firstly your not screwed. You ensure the children's passports are secured and if you are concerned she will up and leave with the children you engage a lawyer pronto and have him legally prevent their travel if that means you file for formal seperation you do so.


Next you contact her parents and tell them you are seeking support in saving your marriage as your wife is in an affair with OM , name him.

If you have access to his Facebook page read the newbie thread and follow the exposure advice therein.

At this moment be calm , your wife's reaction is expected. Avoid relationship talk do not make big decisions now unless your wife is going to leave , if she does it is without the children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

So she was again telling me lies?..after telling me she would contact him again..I love her dearly and want to work this out. She is far away from home and loves to gossip, she has other male friends and does not have nor has ever requested exchange skype details..I am really trying to understand her point too...but it is hard if she is lying to me..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> So she was again telling me lies?..after telling me she would contact him again..I love her dearly and want to work this out. She is far away from home and loves to gossip, she has other male friends and does not have nor has ever requested exchange skype details..I am really trying to understand her point too...but it is hard if she is lying to me..


There is nothing to understand , waywards don't think of the harm they are causing. A spouse behaving normally would not have a second thought and would drop the friend. Your wife is behaving exactly to the affair script. Get your thoughts down , call her family and let them know, be clear she is hiding and lying out the contact and you are seeking their help in supporting your marriage.

Any normal person can see this is impacting your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stonewall

I am a huge advocate of total transparency. My wife has total access to all my stuff and I hers. It breeds trust and allays fears.


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## lordmayhem

F-102 made a great post about how these things progress:



F-102 said:


> It may have gone something like this:
> 
> They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"
> 
> Then it would have morphed into talk about:
> 
> What they've been doing since they parted
> Their significant others since they parted
> Their families
> Their favorite music, movies, etc.
> Their spouses
> You
> Your job
> How your job keeps you away
> How lonely she gets when you're away
> How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
> How she loves talking to him
> How she gets "bored" talking to you
> How you don't always listen
> How you're not "perfect"
> How you can be so insensitive sometimes
> How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
> How he understands her
> How he knows how to make her feel good
> How you fail at this
> How you are such an a**hole
> How she feels young again
> How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
> How he's a better man than you'll ever be
> How she wants to see him again
> How they can meet under the radar
> How she's thought of leaving you
> How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
> How he's her soul mate
> How she made a big mistake leaving him
> How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
> How they were meant to be together...
> 
> ...get the picture?



She secretly contacted him behind your back - RED FLAG
She created a secret facebook account to facilitate contact with him behind your back - RED FLAG
She told him to wait till things settle down and contact her on the secret facebook account - RED FLAG
She would NOT have stopped contact with him if you hadn't found out about it
She's playing the privacy card. What she wants is secrecy. There is no secrey in marriage. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom

And no, it does NOT make anything better just because he's far away. And EA is an EA is an EA. My fWWs EA was online too, and OM is in Canada. Yet I found out in the later stages how she was searching on how to immigrate there and make her escape.


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## Heats of oak

She is still in contact and is not keen on letting it go..I also saw an email she sent to telling him to disregard the message I sent him, warding him off and away, when confronted she confirmed she had sent him a mail but did not tell me the whole detail of the email, when I quoted it back to her she was in shock..and disbelief..he as never a boyfriend, but according to her an old school buddy


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> She is still in contact and is not keen on letting it go..I also saw an email she sent to telling him to disregard the message I sent him, warding him off and away, when confronted she confirmed she had sent him a mail but did not tell me the whole detail of the email, when I quoted it back to her she was in shock..and disbelief..he as never a boyfriend, but according to her an old school buddy


Call her parents, access his Facebook and follow the exposure as recommend . This is your next step when fighting an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Heats of oak said:


> She is still in contact and is not keen on letting it go..I also saw an email she sent to telling him to disregard the message I sent him, warding him off and away, when confronted she confirmed she had sent him a mail but did not tell me the whole detail of the email, when I quoted it back to her she was in shock..and disbelief..he as never a boyfriend, but according to her an old school buddy


The fact the she doesn't want to go NC speaks volumes right there. This EA is far deeper than she's admitted to you. You're getting the Trickle Truth. Its gone on far longer than you estimated. If you read the stories here, you will find that when someone is in an affair, they can throw away years of marriage and children for what they can hear on the phone or words on a screen. 

If he meant little to her, she would drop him right away and be done with it. Yet all she wants to do is take this further underground. No remorse at all. She's deep in the fog alright.


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## Heats of oak

She is now saying that if I cant trust I will push her away..


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## happyman64

You should tell her that it is her actions that are pushing you away!!!


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## Bugz Bunny

Heats of oak said:


> She is now saying that if I cant trust I will push her away..



They all say that...she is expecting you to trust her when she is lying...LOL

If you trust her now this will go deeper underground and will eventually become an PA and then you will be more screwed than you are now...

If her secret relationship with OM is more important to her than your marriage than file for divorce...and if things get better you can always stop the divorce...

Good Luck


----------



## Beowulf

Heats of oak said:


> She is now saying that if I cant trust I will push her away..


How can you trust her if she's lying to you?


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## Chaparral

Start downloading a divorce packet from your state and start filling it out. Make sure she sees it. Other posters say you can download it from the internet. Some states you have to pick one up from the court house.


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## Chaparral

She doesn't think she is having an emotional affair. Give her this list and you and her sit down and google "emotional affair".

She's an educated teacher, maybe if she sees how much is known about EAs she will get it. At least its worth a try.

Emotional Affair Signs Checklist
•The ‘cheater’ keeps their ‘friendship’ secret from their partner.
•They therefore don’t share or talk about calls, texts, etc. that they receive from their friend, with their partners.
•They do all they can to hide those calls and text messages.
•When confronted by a partner, they deny any wrongdoing and may accuse their partner of being silly, of looking for something that doesn’t exist.
•They can even become aggressive when being quizzed about their friendship.
•Their responses are often centered around things like “he’s/she’s just a friend,” “he’s/she’s a good listener,” “it’s only about work,” etc.
•The cheater looks to spend more and more time out of the house with their friend.
•The cheater actually looks forward to spending time with their friend rather than with their spouse or partner.
•They tell their friend things that they don’t even share with their spouse / partner.
•Cheaters spend less time having meaningful conversations with their spouse.
•They are less interested in sex with their spouse or partner.
•They can sometimes behave in ways with their friend that they would never have done with their spouse or partner.
•They conjure up reasons to give their friends gifts.
•Cheaters can suddenly become more critical of their spouse or partner, e.g., the way they dress, the way they look, etc.


Read more: http://www.emotionalaffairsite.com/...motional-affair-signs-checklist#ixzz1mBJUxFu1


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## Heats of oak

She thinks its unfair that she has to drop this friend and had to think about it first...reg flag??


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## Shaggy

Bottom line:

She has shown through her emails that she is putting this other man before her husband in the relationship.

and that friends is a big enough no-no that's it's in the vows.


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## warlock07

Heats of oak said:


> She thinks its unfair that she has to drop this friend and had to think about it first...reg flag??


that would have been reasonable if she wasn't lying in the first place. Now it is not


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## Eli-Zor

Be consistent in your requirment for permanent no contact including the NC letter.

Change the words that were posted to you before to your own circumstance , remind yourself should you weaken in your resolve.

"She secretly contacted him behind your back - RED FLAG
She created a secret facebook account to facilitate contact with him behind your back - RED FLAG
She told him to wait till things settle down and contact her on the secret facebook account - RED FLAG
She would NOT have stopped contact with him if you hadn't found out about it
She's playing the privacy card. What she wants is secrecy. There is no secrey in marriage. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom"


And 

"She's an educated teacher, maybe if she sees how much is known about EAs she will get it. At least its worth a try.

Emotional Affair Signs Checklist
•The ‘cheater’ keeps their ‘friendship’ secret from their partner.
•They therefore don’t share or talk about calls, texts, etc. that they receive from their friend, with their partners.
•They do all they can to hide those calls and text messages.
•When confronted by a partner, they deny any wrongdoing and may accuse their partner of being silly, of looking for something that doesn’t exist.
•They can even become aggressive when being quizzed about their friendship.
•Their responses are often centered around things like “he’s/she’s just a friend,” “he’s/she’s a good listener,” “it’s only about work,”
•The cheater actually looks forward to spending time with their friend rather than with their spouse or partner.
•They tell their friend things that they don’t even share with their spouse / partner.
•Cheaters spend less time having meaningful conversations with their spouse."


Your wife is in an EA the only one that does not want to admit it is her 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calif_hope

In my opinion a spouse can have all the friends they want in a fully transparent relationship. The moment that a spouse lies directly or by omission about an individual relationship that relationship becomes void. No forgive and forget, no putting the Geni back in the bottle - it has to be dropped.

You wife crossed the line with this guy, simply she forfitted this so called friendship in the best interest if your marriage forever.

Is she truly willing to give up her marriage, her family, and your frienship for this guy........

This is not about trust anymore, she betrayed your trust - it's about respect, her continuing a relationship with the OM is very disrespectful to you and your family.....very selfish!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

I also believe that she can have all the friends in the world too, but I do not want to find stuff that I should not have found and was not meant to find.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> She thinks its unfair that she has to drop this friend and had to think about it first...reg flag??


It is unfair that your wife intends to live in an open marriage behind your back without your agreement. There should have been not any thought about this at all. There should have been immediate apology and asking for forgiveness followed by immediate action to kill the affair. 

The needing to think about it gives the answer that this is way further into an affair than you suspected. This is not just a RED FLAG. It is blatant, in your face unfaithfulness. 

You should tell her that you do not have to think any longer about this that you are now moving forward to divorce her as she is openly being unfaithful and you refuse to live in an open marriage.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> I also believe that she can have all the friends in the world too, but I do not want to find stuff that I should not have found and was not meant to find.


She has really lost that luxury. She has proved that she is not capable of having a close male friend. I learned the hard way myself. I learned I cannot have any close female friends.

Boundaries.

If you are ok with male friends, what are the boundaries? Do they communicate about personal things that are meant to be discussed with the spouse only? Is she unknowingly providing a man with information that he can use to seduce her? Realize that EAs start with innocent friendship. We form a bond with our friends. Kept at an appropriate distance the risk is greatly reduced. However, what is that distance? Does your wife meet up with other men? Do they do things that most people do when dating like hanging out together, spending significant time together, are isolated from other people together, even for short periods? Do they miss each other to the point they have to communicate with each other on a monthly or weekly basis? What is ok for you? Does her time with any of these men rival time with you?

I say this because even if you are able to get past this time, there are going to need to be solid boundaries established. Not just her learning how to get better at cheating behind your back.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> She is still in contact and is not keen on letting it go..I also saw an email she sent to telling him to disregard the message I sent him, warding him off and away, when confronted she confirmed she had sent him a mail but did not tell me the whole detail of the email, when I quoted it back to her she was in shock..and disbelief..he as never a boyfriend, but according to her an old school buddy


This is nothing but open cheating and humiliating you. She has chosen the OM over you. At best she will want to cake it. String you along for the needs you can meet for her. So at best an open marriage.

EX lover or not and you don;t really know this relationship is way beyond toxic. It needs to end immediately, but she has chosen him. You are now sharing your wife with another man, No, the OM is sharing your wife with you. For the time being.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> She is now saying that if I cant trust I will push her away..


She is already gone. She has turned on you and wants her OM. Remember this is checmicel. Liek an addiction. It took me four to six weeks to go through withdrawal before I was thinking rationally. You are not even talking the woman you loved. She is buried in the chemical fog.

Some BSs are so much in denial of this that they want to believe what their spouse tells them. Even in the face of blatant cheating. Some could walk in on their spouse riding an OM man and still not be convinced. The WS telling them it is just sex.

Others are just fatally nice guys that think their wife can have all the male friends she wants as he does not want to be jealous, controlling or insecure.


----------



## Heats of oak

We sat down and went through 10 points of an emotional affair and she denies any of them..


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## Complexity

Of course she would, it's simply up to her now to get out of this fog. No amount of convincing will work. You need to maintain the 180 and seriously consider the D card not that you should go through with it but as a precautionary measure.


----------



## Beowulf

There is another thread on here that is very similar to this one. In that case the wife also wouldn't give up her "friendship" and I believe they are now on their way to a divorce. Hopefully you caught this early enough to avoid that unfortunate occurrence. Bottom line is that she is choosing another man over her husband. "Forsake all others" is not a throwaway line.


----------



## Heats of oak

have sent the OM an emial asking him what the f**** is going on..


----------



## MSP

Heats of oak said:


> have sent the OM an emial asking him what the f**** is going on..


Stop looking to liars for direction.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> We sat down and went through 10 points of an emotional affair and she denies any of them..


I did not realize I was in an EA until I came out of withdrawal. It is not about reasoning here. It is about applying pressur in hopes that you can reach the other person. Reasoning is not going to do much once the affair goes soe far. She is in deep. Nice try with her. But you are going to have to make it more cklear to her by your actions.

There are of coruse factors in all of this but a very important one is timing. Getting to this early is key. There can be no wait and see. Things melt down very quickly.


----------



## Beowulf

Entropy3000 said:


> I did not realize I was in an EA until I came out of withdrawal. It is not about reasoning here. It is about applying pressur in hopes that you can reach the other person. Reasoning is not going to do much once the affair goes soe far. She is in deep. Nice try with her. But you are going to have to make it more cklear to her by your actions.
> 
> There are of coruse factors in all of this but a very important one is timing. Getting to this early is key. There can be no wait and see. Things melt down very quickly.


And if it ever gets to a PA it gets a whole lot more complicated.


----------



## Heats of oak

What happens now?..she has not been on the laptop all night..she flipped out when i mentioned the divorce..said that I am looking for stuff thats not there and that I can tell whoever I want as she is tired of all this now..wanted to be left alone..all sorts..


----------



## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> What happens now?..she has not been on the laptop all night..she flipped out when i mentioned the divorce..said that I am looking for stuff thats not there and that I can tell whoever I want as she is tired of all this now..wanted to be left alone..all sorts..


She is in an EA. She is gaslighting you. She does not want to talk about it any more.

Time to act.


----------



## bandit.45

Stay on the 180. Don't waiver. Oh, and call a lawyer and get the ball rollin'.


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## Shaggy

Heats of oak said:


> What happens now?..she has not been on the laptop all night..she flipped out when i mentioned the divorce..said that I am looking for stuff thats not there and that I can tell whoever I want as she is tired of all this now..wanted to be left alone..all sorts..


First you need to get out of your own fog: the fig of trying to think that somewhere inside her is the caring rational honest person you married. Right now she is a self deluded liar who has as her happiness goal to remain in her EA. that makes anything she has to do fair and right in her eyes.

First kill the affair, then you can talk to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngryandUsed

Why to kill the affair, when she is still skewed towards OM?


----------



## Heats of oak

She slso spoke of how i could tell her parents and kick her out if I wanted to..is this normal?


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## Heats of oak

Also claims I broker her heart when she found out I knew what she sent in her last email to him..


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## Shaggy

She will say, do, negotiate anything to protect the affair. Understand you are dealing isotherm essentially a drug addict. Expect her to act like one.

Btw,tomorrow when you leave for work she will contact him fr help on how to deal with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Ya, she's calling your bluff, she still thinks she has a doormat for a H and is testing to see how far you will go.


----------



## the guy

Her poor heart, it must be so hard for her now that her fantasy has been exposed. 

It sucks to be caught!

How is she going to continue her little secret fantasy with you looking over her shoulder?


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## Complexity

I guess you're progressively learning the answer to your thread question. I wouldn't kick her out or tell her parents, that would seem too brash and desperate in my opinion. Keep with the 180 and like Mori says, make her understand that this marriage is effectively on probation until she gets her act together. I will differ from other users here by not advising you personally to end the affair, this should be a personal step from her. If you want to know if there's anything salvageable from this individual they have to personally get out of this fog alone. Stop contacting the OM, it hasn't worked and it won't work. He owes you absolutley nothing. Your wife has to ultimately realise the error of her ways and to understand whether risking your relationship is worth some friend from 30 years ago who lives thousands of miles away. If she chooses the latter then this marriage rotted along time ago.


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## Heats of oak

just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?..or am I kidding myself?...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


----------



## Shaggy

Heats of oak said:


> just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?..or am I kidding myself?...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


Consider the emails o himfom a secret account and you have your answer...no you aren't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

Okay, everybody needs to slow the F down. I thought this was a pro marriage forum. All I am hearing is how this woman is for sure cheating, in the fog, is playing mind games, manipulating, etc, etc. 

None of us know if any of that is true or false. Some of you are giving good advice here, but others are ready to throw stones at yet another witch, and we don't know much at all.

Look, Heats of Oak, stop contacting the OM. It's always a bad tactic. He won't listen to you - only her. Deal with your wife only. You've already laid down the gauntlet. She claims the relationship is innocent, but that isn't what matters. What matters is that the relationship bothers you.

Here's what you do. You say, "Honey, look. I know I may be coming across harsh right now, and your relationship with X might very well be innocent. But it still really bothers me, and given what's gone down I am having trouble trusting you. I want to stay married to you and continue our life together, but I can't do that when you are having secret conversations with another man. I have to draw the line for the sake of myself and our marriage. So, even if nothing naughty is going on, I need you to cut ties with him. Hopefully you can respect my feelings and value our marriage more than your conversations with X. So what's it going to be, Doll?"

If she values your marriage enough, she shouldn't hesitate after this plea from you. She might get defensive, but if she does, you just say, "Honey, I understand this might just be an innocent friendship. But I don't care. This is how it has to be. It bothers me that much. So, whaddya say?"


----------



## calif_hope

WTF....she sends an e-mail to the OM that disrespected you, you found out......and this breaks HER heart!??

WOW!!

Look you need to quit asking of you are making something out of nothing - it really is getting annoying --------- the second she lied and took direct action to keep you, her husband, in the dark about her communication with the OM......she crossed the line. It became more than a friendship, it became a toxic presence that would eat away at your marriage - distracting her, a 3rd party to the two of you that is cancer. 

This is big, accept it and don't waver from it and don't ask that damn question again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Heats of oak said:


> just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?..or am I kidding myself?...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


 Normally your wife's refusal to stop contacting the OM would be an indication in and of itself that there is something wrong. What makes it hard to read is that you are so beta and she is so use to pushing you around that I am not sure just how much this OM means to her.

You work a job, she does not yet:
1) You usually make her tea and breakfast every morning. 
2) You get the kids up, feed them and get them off to school.
3) You do most of the house work.
Dude, until she gets a job, get her out of bed and have her take care of you, the kids and the house work. It is only fair.

Add to this the fact that after fights she expects you to make nice the next morning and you are a doormat. She has no respect for you and thus your unhappiness with her talking behind your back to the OM means nothing to her. Is it any wonder that you say that she is no longer attracted to you?

Man up now. Lay down the law and then back it up with action not talk. Cut her off financially and take care of all of the bills yourself. Start asserting yourself.

Here is a thought. Instead of asking are you wrong or right, start knowing that you are right when you are right. If her talking to another man bugs you, then you have a right to tell her to stop all contact. Stop always seeing it from her point of view and recognize that your point of view matters.


----------



## Heats of oak

Gabriel said:


> Okay, everybody needs to slow the F down. I thought this was a pro marriage forum. All I am hearing is how this woman is for sure cheating, in the fog, is playing mind games, manipulating, etc, etc.
> 
> None of us know if any of that is true or false. Some of you are giving good advice here, but others are ready to throw stones at yet another witch, and we don't know much at all.
> 
> Look, Heats of Oak, stop contacting the OM. It's always a bad tactic. He won't listen to you - only her. Deal with your wife only. You've already laid down the gauntlet. She claims the relationship is innocent, but that isn't what matters. What matters is that the relationship bothers you.
> 
> Here's what you do. You say, "Honey, look. I know I may be coming across harsh right now, and your relationship with X might very well be innocent. But it still really bothers me, and given what's gone down I am having trouble trusting you. I want to stay married to you and continue our life together, but I can't do that when you are having secret conversations with another man. I have to draw the line for the sake of myself and our marriage. So, even if nothing naughty is going on, I need you to cut ties with him. Hopefully you can respect my feelings and value our marriage more than your conversations with X. So what's it going to be, Doll?"
> 
> If she values your marriage enough, she shouldn't hesitate after this plea from you. She might get defensive, but if she does, you just say, "Honey, I understand this might just be an innocent friendship. But I don't care. This is how it has to be. It bothers me that much. So, whaddya say?"


Did that and she refused so see why she hasd to frop the friend..then she had to think about it and then she decided to do it..not sure she will stick to that


----------



## lordmayhem

Heats of oak said:


> Did that and she refused so see why she hasd to frop the friend..then she had to think about it and then she decided to do it..not sure she will stick to that


For someone who is supposedly "Just A Friend", she sure has been extremely reluctant about going NC, even seeing how much damage this is causing the marriage. 

You see it over and over again, not just on this site, but on all the other infidelity support sites like SI, CC, LS, MB, etc. The four deadliest words to a marriage is "He's/She's Just A Friend".

If she breaks NC, then this is far deeper than you realize.


----------



## Goldmember357

Shamwow said:


> Sorry Heats...
> 
> Yeah...she's probably been "inappropriate" with this guy for a while now. Who knows the extent, hopefully minimal for your sake. Does she travel for work, or has she been out of town lately for something or other?
> 
> She's angry that she got caught...especially since she seems pretty tech savvy, if she knew you had seen the Skype request.
> 
> The fact that she claims she's done no wrong in this says either you two have too few boundaries in place in your relationship...or...she is in the fog of affair and will justify her actions in any way possible before admitting what she's been hiding. Or both. Anyway, she wouldn't hide it if she didn't feel it was wrong. It hurts to be lied to.
> 
> Tell her it has nothing to do with jealousy/snooping. She's hiding communications with other men from you, she's made an emotional bond with the OM, probably talking about your marriage with him (which she should be doing with you)...and she wants you to feel crazy for being concerned?
> 
> Take charge of the situation, don't be angry, don't beg or plead. Just confer to her that you deserve her respect and she isn't giving it to you. Good luck...


:iagree:


This woman is mad she got caught and is not a "good woman" not wife material. If you cant already pick up on the red flags and how she is angry and getting defensive than i do not know what to tell you. She is upset she got caught and instead of think about your feelings is angry. Once again i am left scratching my head as to how two people like this could even marry and than be in such a position. 

Best of Luck TS


----------



## Heats of oak

Just came in after leaving home early this morning (went to my Doctor) spoke a to him a little bit about what was happening, getting my self sorted, appointment with solicitor is booked for thursday, counselling (for me) is hopefully booked for friday, so I am begining to take care of me..noticed that she checked my email (she thinks I rfemoved the keylogger) haha..love it!.. she reviewed the email I sent the OM last night..why would she do this?? she asked me if I wanted to go out with her and the kids..I refused saying that I had things to do she looked gutted...is this cool.??.I am so friggin wired..dont know what to expect..keeping it real for the kids I have..but as for her..time will tell


----------



## lordmayhem

Heats of oak said:


> Just came in after leaving home early this morning (went to my Doctor) spoke a to him a little bit about what was happening, getting my self sorted, appointment with solicitor is booked for thursday, counselling (for me) is hopefully booked for friday, so I am begining to take care of me..noticed that she checked my email (she thinks I rfemoved the keylogger) haha..love it!.. she reviewed the email I sent the OM last night..why would she do this??


Because she wanted to see what you sent him. It's extremely common for WWs to want to PROTECT their OM. Do you see how her behavior shows that this just isn't a friend? 

She wouldn't give a damn about what you were sending OM if in fact, this was just a friend from 30 years ago and this was all innocent.


----------



## Heats of oak

lordmayhem said:


> Because she wanted to see what you sent him. It's extremely common for WWs to want to PROTECT their OM. Do you see how her behavior shows that this just isn't a friend?
> 
> She wouldn't give a damn about what you were sending OM if in fact, this was just a friend from 30 years ago and this was all innocent.


She has not replied to him nor has she sent him any comms yet??


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## warlock07

Don't come up with the keylogger trump card every second day. Also maybe she knows her computer is compromised. If so, she will only be doing things that you will find innocent, hence blindside you for now(double bluff, I hope I made sense). You will be comfortable with the keylogger thinking that you have your tabs on her and she cleverly avoids it when making incriminating mails. One WW was using the library computer to send the OM mails. So be on your watch


----------



## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?..or am I kidding myself?...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


No. Quite the opposite. You desperately want to wake up form this nightmare. So bad you wish to believe that you are over reacting. Not even close. This is what gaslighting is all about.


----------



## Entropy3000

TRy said:


> Normally your wife's refusal to stop contacting the OM would be an indication in and of itself that there is something wrong. What makes it hard to read is that you are so beta and she is so use to pushing you around that I am not sure just how much this OM means to her.
> 
> You work a job, she does not yet:
> 1) You usually make her tea and breakfast every morning.
> 2) You get the kids up, feed them and get them off to school.
> 3) You do most of the house work.
> Dude, until she gets a job, get her out of bed and have her take care of you, the kids and the house work. It is only fair.
> 
> Add to this the fact that after fights she expects you to make nice the next morning and you are a doormat. She has no respect for you and thus your unhappiness with her talking behind your back to the OM means nothing to her. Is it any wonder that you say that she is no longer attracted to you?
> 
> Man up now. Lay down the law and then back it up with action not talk. Cut her off financially and take care of all of the bills yourself. Start asserting yourself.
> 
> Here is a thought. Instead of asking are you wrong or right, start knowing that you are right when you are right. If her talking to another man bugs you, then you have a right to tell her to stop all contact. Stop always seeing it from her point of view and recognize that your point of view matters.


Being a doormat is not attractive. She is missing something in her life. A strong man. She cannot have respect for someone who does not resepct themselves. So start doing that. Otherwise she is just going to find what she wants elsewhere.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Heats of oak said:


> Hey all
> 
> slightly confused; is it wrong that my wife wanted to communicate with another man, even though he is a few thousand miles away and is an old friend from 30yrs ago..she left her skype account open a few days back and I noticed that she had a friendship acceptance form this chap, which then prompted me to investigate further, *I did the wrong thing* and checked her email the next day and saw that she had sent this contact an email informing him that I ad seen the request and it would better to wait for things to calm down before they speak..and if there was anything further he should contact her via her "other" facebook account, she denies having another account and said that it was his..but she can't make a simple mistake with the verb to be being a teacher!


First off, you didn't do the "wrong thing". You trusted your gut, and it was right. She is up to no good.

Second, it is not unacceptable to want to have a friendship, online or otherwise, with the opposite sex. As long as it is just friends with no romantic interests. But its clear there is more to it than that.




> Anyway we argued and heatedly discussed this, she failed to see that she had done wrong or was about to do wrong, she was never going to tell me she was communicating with this guy when I asked her about it as she says "I am jealous of all her male friends"


Jealousy is an irrational emotion based on not liking a significant other conversing with the opposite sex thinking romantic feelings will arise, when they won't.

Therefore, because she is clearly up to something, you aren't jealous, but justifiably upset and concerned.

She is giving you a reason to not like her "friendships" with other men.



> We are however making headway, I have promised to stop being nosey and leave her email account alone


Just how cheaters like it. You wouldn't have been nosey if she hadn't have been doing things she shouldn't have been doing, like having another FB account she lied to you about so she can have backdoor access to other guys so you won't find out.




> she has come out of her shell a tad more and is not spending 3hrs on facebook


And I bet you its eating her alive.



> She also says that she concerned about my lack of trust and that she feels she needs "privacy" and that my jealousy and checking emails has "freaked her out!"


Oh she's good. She is real good.

Ask her what she needs privacy for when conversing with other men.




> I know I have my issues and am dealing with them, but I think something is not quite right..pls comment!!!


You are right. Something isn't quite right. Its your wife. She wants her privacy so she can get her validation fix with other men, whether online or otherwise.

I don't know what to tell you other than you are in for a rocky road with this woman. She respects nada.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Heats of oak said:


> Also claims I broker her heart when she found out I knew what she sent in her last email to him..


That is the dumbest attempt at turning things around to you I have heard yet.

Her heart wasn't broke. She was pissed she got caught.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Heats of oak said:


> just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?


No




> ..or am I kidding myself?


Yes




> ...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


Its understandable. Been there done that. I had a temporary lapse of insanity myself. Thats what finding out you have an unfaithful wife can do. I realize you haven't caught her in the real act of anything (sorry, haven't read the whole thread if you stated this one way or another). But what you found was enough. It plays with your mind.

I can tell you straight up, this "wife" of yours is up to no good.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Take steps in a measured way , when she asks to go out ask her if she is prepared to send a no contact letter and go NC for life. 

I suggests you use the earliest opportunity to divide the house work and child care, stop being a giver . Your in the very eary days , your wife is a long way from her family and will be alone, with consistancy and firmness you can turn this around. If you push for D there is a high risk you will lose your marriage. You require balance , fight the affair by every means, don't threaten D unless you are prepared to go through with it knowing you may lose your wife. It is very easy to get carried away , think though each step.

The message to your wife is she is in an affair and this is the cause of the issues.

Work on yourself , stop sharing your plans with her learn to keep quiet. Monitor her messages, do not reveal your sources and do not contact the OM . If you are going to do something expose him to his friends and family. 

Hold firm and man up in your actions and words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Okie

Heats of oak said:


> just one question..could this all just be an over reaction on my behalf?..or am I kidding myself?...I cant see the wood for the trees..sooo confused!!


If it had not gotten inappropriate yet, it was well on its way. Your story is familiar to many of us on here who had a wife with "just a friend" from out of state. Hiding the contact and deceit is the key here. Keep gathering information. Listen to Eli-Zor he helped me bust my wife's online long distance EA last year.


----------



## Heats of oak

After the email I sent the OM he did not reply to me nor indeed to her..and it has been a few days now..when asked about this she simply said that if she had to lose a friend then so be it..


----------



## Heats of oak

Question: Will counsellors not pick up what she has done and what actions she has taken to be those of someone having an EA?


----------



## TRy

Heats of oak said:


> Question: Will counsellors not pick up what she has done and what actions she has taken to be those of someone having an EA?


Stop with the beta stuff already. It does not matter if the counselor picks it up or not. All that matters is that you know, and you know that she is having an EA. Again, you need to realize that what you think matters. If you do not value what you think, why should your wife?

Also, why are you still seeing a MC when your wife has not broken all contact off with the OM? MC is a waste of time until your spouse commits to the marraige and drops the OM.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> Question: Will counsellors not pick up what she has done and what actions she has taken to be those of someone having an EA?



It's a good start and she may with a capital MAY have decided it is not worth it however keep a watching brief. Buy the book "his needs her needs" by Harley . This is for both you and your wife to read. Assume there is a missing in your marriage that you have to plug. It could be an emotional or attention need your wife desires or it could be you are overcompensating and are not fulfulling the dominant role she desires from you.

Do you have a way forward to address the unequal attention and effort you are putting into the marriage? I suspect this may be a huge contributer to your wife's gossiping and external attention seeking efforts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> Question: Will counsellors not pick up what she has done and what actions she has taken to be those of someone having an EA?


Not likely , many councellors are not necessarily equipped to deal with affair related issues. If you do choose to go to one do so for yourself and assess their competency before you introduce your wife. A councillor who is not pro marriage and who does not have a plan to work on marriage recovery should be avoided and unfortunately like any profession you have good ones, mediocure ones and very bad ones.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

I suggest you have her send a no contact letter in your presence , this action from her will speak volumes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

Eli, she already told the other man to ignore them. It is pointless now to do an NC letter. What HO needs to do is meet with the solicitor tomorrow, get his information. Then he goes home, and tells his wife (if he wants to R). He then tells her that he is considering divorce. Then watch her response. If she still holds to the BS about it not being an EA. Move forward. 

From a business perspective. I would never fire a person for making a mistake. I would fire them if they showed they didn't agree they made a mistake or if they didn't learn from it. See what I mean.


----------



## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> It's a good start and she may with a capital MAY have decided it is not worth it however keep a watching brief. Buy the book "his needs her needs" by Harley . This is for both you and your wife to read. Assume there is a missing in your marriage that you have to plug. It could be an emotional or attention need your wife desires or it could be you are overcompensating and are not fulfulling the dominant role she desires from you.
> 
> Do you have a way forward to address the unequal attention and effort you are putting into the marriage? I suspect this may be a huge contributer to your wife's gossiping and external attention seeking efforts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your most probably right there she is missing something..i am working on myself in hope she picks up on it. This afternoon she is washing dishes, hoovered and will be taking the kids out together...


----------



## Heats of oak

Heats of oak said:


> Your most probably right there she is missing something..i am working on myself in hope she picks up on it. This afternoon she is washing dishes, hoovered and will be taking the kids out together...


Things are very quiet in the house now..kids are ok as they have been inbetween the whole thing and I cant bring myself to talk she has had withdrawls from not using the pc so far today I have made sure the kids have been on one all day and I the other..shes hurting bad..is trying to be nice to me aswell I aint buying it..


----------



## bandit.45

Heats of oak said:


> Things are very quiet in the house now..kids are ok as they have been inbetween the whole thing and I cant bring myself to talk she has had withdrawls from not using the pc so far today I have made sure the kids have been on one all day and I the other..shes hurting bad..is trying to be nice to me aswell I aint buying it..


You cut off her supply line and she's hating you for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Don't expect a sudden change, this will be a gradual process and the healing will take a while. You should do your part as well , while working on yourself respond positivly to affection she shows you. I still suggest the templated NC letter, it's her actions and willingness your verifying here.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Don't expect a sudden change, this will be a gradual process and the healing will take a while. You should do your part as well , while working on yourself respond positivly to affection she shows you. I still suggest the templated NC letter, it's her actions and willingness your verifying here.
> 
> I have been and have also been attentive as a husband should be..but have also been more "alpha" as opposed to "beta" she is out right now with the kids and I think that she is aware I caught onto something and how serious it could have been for her..she is here (uk) on a spousal visa..I was sure she was just using me for a meal ticket..sent her cousin an email explaining what was happening and he confirmed that she did indeed love me and would not waste time involving herself with someone else having raised 3 children together and after 9years of being together she has never shown signs like these before..I guess it was a fair bit to do with me and our soci-economic status..Eli-Zor; your good...counsellor?


----------



## Initfortheduration

You can let her on the computer. Just sit next to her. I mean, she is not expecting privacy after lying to your face is she? If she complains, tell her that since she is unable to tell the truth to you about who she is contacting, and since your contacting the OM, and since your wife contacted him and told him to ignore both your demands that he break of contact, you simply tell her that you are monitoring her internet usage because you are concerned that he will continue to "bother" her. 

*And the beauty is (which she can't deny), if she says that she will let you know if he contacts her Tell her (in the most condescending manner possible, and shaking your finger back and forth with your eyes closed and a smile on your face): "ah, ah, ah, remember you can't be trusted to tell me the truth (then open your eyes look at her with an intense stair and no smile), and say "As far as it goes from here on out your choice is as follows. You can have privacy or a marriage which do you prefer?"* 

Close with this:

FROM NOW ON IN THIS HOUSE. PRIVACY IS FOR BATHROOMS, TRANSPARENCY IS FOR MARRIAGES.


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## Complexity

I think your wife might be getting homesick


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## bandit.45

> You can let her on the computer. Just sit next to her. I mean, she is not expecting privacy after lying to your face is she? If she complains, tell her that since she is unable to tell the truth to you about who she is contacting, and since your contacting the OM, and since your wife contacted him and told him to ignore both your demands that he break of contact, you simply tell her that you are monitoring her internet usage because you are concerned that he will continue to "bother" her


So he gets to spend the unforeseeable future being his wife's probation officer? Makes no sense to me. No sane person wants to live in his/her marriage this way.


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## Initfortheduration

Its no different then having an alcoholic, or a drug dependent spouse. Have you ever seen "days of wine of roses" with Jack Lemon and lee Remick. Fantastic movie on alcoholism. Its codependent. And I am not saying it is anyway healthy. But remember this is the initial "shock and awe" to wake them from the fog. In other words, he may come on strong now, and lighten up later, but you don't want to let her know that.

Rather what I would do, is make her take a polygraph (whether you believe she has told you the truth or not) and tell her that she could be subject to one or more in the future without warning. Then give her another one in a year and a half. If she knows she could have to take one, she will be good from then on. Just a thought.


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## Heats of oak

Complexity said:


> I think your wife might be getting homesick


I thought so too. Found out another email had been sent to OM read and it was none threatening..no use of any language to suggest anything was wrong...told her it takes 2 to screw up a marriage..she claims she is not homesick but merely wants to chat with friends and family and for the most part she has done..


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## Heats of oak

But still sleeping with one eye open..and gonna speak to soclicitors today..


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> I thought so too. Found out another email had been sent to OM read and it was none threatening..no use of any language to suggest anything was wrong...told her it takes 2 to screw up a marriage..she claims she is not homesick but merely wants to chat with friends and family and for the most part she has done..


If you're not finding anything incriminating I would ease off a little because being uber controlling of her communications will build up a lot of resentment especially with her being so far from home. Just warn her about the early stages of an emotional affair and inform her of your desired marital boundaries. Above all, make sure you convey to her that you're doing this out of love, *they need to understand this* and not because you want to control her. I might get slammed for this and I pray I don't regret this later, but if you're not finding anything suspicious and you're open to her having friendships of this sort, it might do well to allow her to speak to her friends again.


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> I thought so too. Found out another email had been sent to OM read and it was none threatening..no use of any language to suggest anything was wrong...told her it takes 2 to screw up a marriage..she claims she is not homesick but merely wants to chat with friends and family and for the most part she has done..



Was this mail sent recently ? Remind her he is no friend of yours or your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Complexity said:


> If you're not finding anything incriminating I would ease off a little because being uber controlling of her communications will build up a lot of resentment especially with her being so far from home. Just warn her about the early stages of an emotional affair and inform her of your desired marital boundaries. Above all, make sure you convey to her that you're doing this out of love, *they need to understand this* and not because you want to control her. I might get slammed for this and I pray I don't regret this later, but if you're not finding anything suspicious and you're open to her having friendships of this sort, it might do well to allow her to speak to her friends again.


I have done so, but am still keeping a very close eye and have mentioned that she must not have the laptop facing her all the time and that we must have transparency, we have 3 small kids so we must work on it. I sat down and went through the stages of an EA and of course she denied it (this was a few days ago) since then I am of the belief that she is aware and more Conscientious of the dangers..am noticing small changes but this could be because she knows I know and is blinding me with her more hands on approach in inside the family or is just changing??..lest see what happens


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> But still sleeping with one eye open..and gonna speak to soclicitors today..


Are you filing or discussing your options?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Was this mail sent recently ? Remind her he is no friend of yours or your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yesterday, but the words were very, very neutral.


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> I have done so, but am still keeping a very close eye and have mentioned that she must not have the laptop facing her all the time and that we must have transparency, we have 3 small kids so we must work on it. I sat down and went through the stages of an EA and of course she denied it (this was a few days ago) since then I am of the belief that she is aware and more Conscientious of the dangers..am noticing small changes but this could be because she knows I know and is blinding me with her more hands on approach in inside the family or is just changing??..lest see what happens


Then like you said, keep one eye open at all times and ensure she's transparent with everything.


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> yesterday, but the words were very, very neutral.


Tackle this by the horns ,let her know she ceases all contact and sends the NC letter or you divorce her . Job done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Are you filing or discussing your options?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have an appointment with legal beagles today still gonna seek advice on it. we have not discussed anything further to be honest as the kids pick up on this very quickly and ask not to argue..she is aware I caught onto something..and I feel will either make other avenues to chat...??


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Tackle this by the horns ,let her know she ceases all contact and sends the NC letter or you divorce her . Job done
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


for real??


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## Eli-Zor

Do you have access to his Facebook page or his family? If so expose to them if not find them and expose . This is a battle on two fronts , your wife on one and him on the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> for real??


Yes for real. 

You are aleady going to a solicitor , you are testing the waters for divorce by doing this. Personally I would not go down the D route for the moment I would however be prepared, speak to a solicitor and know my rights especialy about keeping your children with you or in your country of residence . Then when you are certain and ready make the decision use D as the final option.

Furthermore I would expose the hell out of him to everyone he knows and ensure they know he is preying on your wife .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

Eli, I think we need to calm down for a second. He hasn't found anything incriminating yet, threatening her with divorce can be very counter-productive if she is indeed innocent. Don't act based on emotions if you have no evidence to back them up. 

Just wait and see where it goes. You've warned her already and you made clear your boundaries. Give it time and see if she does anything explicitly wrong. I'm afraid that you're going too fast with this thing. Divorce, even threatening it is a very serious matter. If she sees you tossing the D word easily she'll soon call your bluff on it.


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Yes for real.
> 
> You are aleady going to a solicitor , you are testing the waters for divorce by doing this. Personally I would not go down the D route for the moment I would however be prepared, speak to a solicitor and know my rights especialy about keeping your children with you or in your country of residence . Then when you are certain and ready make the decision use D as the final option.
> 
> Furthermore I would expose the hell out of him to everyone he knows and ensure they know he is preying on your wife .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


hahaha...don' get me wrong..(I am not being beta) but what if..its is all innocent?...but I know you guys are gonna slate me for that comment I know...haha..could I not wait to see how it panns out as I am now of the dispotion where by I dont really care..if she could do it to, she could then do it to anybody??


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## Eli-Zor

I must point out your wife should understand that she will lose out in the marriage .She is taking a huge risk maintaining contact with this guy , she is a long way from home and from the sounds of it will lose out financially . The believe odds are in your favour. 

Read the 180 and start running it . If you do this right it will cause your wife concern as she will see you change .If you refer to her contact with the OM call it an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Complexity said:


> Eli, I think we need to calm down for a second. He hasn't found anything incriminating yet, threatening her with divorce can be very counter-productive if she is indeed innocent. Don't act based on emotions if you have no evidence to back them up.
> 
> Just wait and see where it goes. You've warned her already and you made clear your boundaries. Give it time and see if she does anything explicitly wrong. I'm afraid that you're going too fast with this thing. Divorce, even threatening it is a very serious thing. If she sees you tossing the D word easily she'll soon call your bluff on it.


Very true..and then the s*** really hits the fan..but I am going to be very calm and foucs on me and my mental state, and of course my daughters..as they need to have their minds taken away from all this and I could live with myself if they were to end up long term affected by all this..I really could not..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> hahaha...don' get me wrong..(I am not being beta) but what if..its is all innocent?...but I know you guys are gonna slate me for that comment I know...haha..could I not wait to see how it panns out as I am now of the dispotion where by I dont really care..if she could do it to, she could then do it to anybody??


Do you think your wife will be happy if for every mail she sent to the OM you went out with a female friend?? 

You are not happy with her contact so YES this is affecting your marriage and YES from experience this is an affair or the start of one. Her words in previous mails already tells you she was hiding this away from you , she knows contacting him is an issue but she still mails him . Stop doubting yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Do you think your wife will be happy if for every mail she sent to the OM you went out with a female friend.
> 
> You are not happy with her contact so YES this is affecting your marriage and YES from experience this is an affair or the start of one. Her word in previous mails already tell you she was hiding this away from you , she know contacting him is an issue yes she still mails him . Stop doubting yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have said that if she does mess around on the internet I will start to do the same..she has not answered me yet..but 2 wrongs don't make a right...but as the old saying goes..to catch a thief..so i am going to play her game for a while..she did tell me that she had emailed the OM and that he had not replied..


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Do you think your wife will be happy if for every mail she sent to the OM you went out with a female friend??
> 
> You are not happy with her contact so YES this is affecting your marriage and YES from experience this is an affair or the start of one. Her words in previous mails already tells you she was hiding this away from you , she knows contacting him is an issue but she still mails him . Stop doubting yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So Eli-Zor, I take it the armorous attentions are quite normal at this stage?..I dont want to think maybe so, but who knows... to throw scent away?, this is quite a devious act that she is committing if she is..I have never thought that this type of thing existed..I mean Iknow infidelity existed but this level??


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## happyman64

Send HOO the link to shamwow so he can comprehend an EA and where it can lead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Often a wayard wife would wish to dispel the concerns from their BS and will increase intamacy or attention. This is absolutely fine IF they have permanently stopped contact with the OM. This behaviour is not unique to your wife, at this moment she is in a position where she does not want to give up the attention from the OM nor the attention from you. Her mind is in turmoil and she will be trying to understand what is going on as well as rationalising why she cannot have the OM in her life . There is no logic to their thinking as waywards often do not see the damage they are causing. Once the fog has lifted and reality sets in they tend to be embarrassed and ashamed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak: it's your consistancy in opposing the affair that will save your marriage. Don't look at a way to punish your wife but do let her feel the consequences. She cannot expect to have an EA on the side and you. She either has you or nothing. 

Read the 180, with each week that she continues to contact him tighten it . If she stops the EA then slack off.

Once the affair is over work on those items that are lacking to strengthen your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Heats of oak: it's your consistancy in opposing the affair that will save your marriage. Don't look at a way to punish your wife but do let her feel the consequences. She cannot expect to have an EA on the side and you. She either has you or nothing.
> 
> Read the 180, with each week that she continues to contact him tighten it . If she stops the EA then slack off.
> 
> Once the affair is over work on those items that are lacking to strengthen your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have sent her an email to the other account she claims she never had and am yet to receive a reply..I have also sent a contact request to a contact that she has who is also a friend of a "good" friend of mine and my wife does not know this...I suspected as much that she would all of a sudden be like that as she is never normally like that..I am very reluctant to succum to these advances, but like you mentioned before respond to affections..I am sure it wont be long before she realises the game is up!


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## Heats of oak

Well thats very kind of you Eli-Zor she has to choose..gluttony will lead to a very upset stomach!!


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## Heats of oak

Heats of oak said:


> Well thats very kind of you Eli-Zor she has to choose..gluttony will lead to a very upset stomach!!


She is alittle homesick..just admitted it to me..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> She is alittle homesick..just admitted it to me..


Indeed, I suspected she might be however due to her liaison with the OM I suggest keeping away from the "can I visit my home country" conversation anywhere in the near future as that would be a certainty of a PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

She misses certain aspects of her countr but would not return as she knows the quality of life there is no compaison to the quality of life here in the UK..and she has admitted that her friend has not replied to her still she is open about this..


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> She is alittle homesick..just admitted it to me..


I thought so. Though I do worry she's confiding her homesickness with other man rather than girl friends or family members. As I said, keep your eye open.


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## Heats of oak

She as contacted her family and her father was due to visit last year but was unable to due to the death of his brother..her cousinis gonna try and visit too..now it all kinda makes sense..but one eye shall remain open..I feel kinda sheepish??


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> .I feel kinda sheepish??


Why ? read your words

"she had sent this contact an email informing him that I ad seen the request and it would better to wait for things to calm down before they speak..and if there was anything further he should contact her via her "other" facebook account, she denies having another account and said that it was his"

This behaviour implies she is hiding a relationship from you. Do not doubt yourself and don't let her turn this on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## camelliarose

Ask her how she'd feel if you do the same. Yep, privacy has nothing to do with this. Privacy in marriage just means going to the toilet alone (sometimes not even).


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Why ? read your words
> 
> "she had sent this contact an email informing him that I ad seen the request and it would better to wait for things to calm down before they speak..and if there was anything further he should contact her via her "other" facebook account, she denies having another account and said that it was his"
> 
> This behaviour implies she is hiding a relationship from you. Do not doubt yourself and don't let her turn this on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok


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## Heats of oak

She has been found out..I made her swear on the bible that she had not been in touch with the OM since saturday (i knew full well she had sent him an email yesterday)..she denied it still..show me the deleted items I asked her..she did and there it was..I am now sleepng away from her at least for tonight..


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> She has been found out..I made her swear on the bible that she had not been in touch with the OM since saturday (i knew full well she had sent him an email yesterday)..she denied it still..show me the deleted items I asked her..she did and there it was..I am now sleepng away from her at least for tonight..


 Think and do 180
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

I take it back then, this isn't homesickness, this is an emotional affair. I'm definitely leaning on the D card now.


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## Eli-Zor

One step at a time there is no rush , she is not going anywhere in a hurry.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

have just told her to choose me or the OM and thats it..


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## Complexity

Yes issue her an ultimatum and sternly follow the 180 rule. Even if she chooses you, you have to continue with the 180 for a long time for her to understand that she can never do this again and most importantly to never take you for granted. You've already given her plenty of chances to be truthful, until recently I thought this was all innocent reminiscences


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## Heats of oak

She did try again telling me "You are so wrong"! "You are so wrong"!

Should I go public with it?


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## Beowulf

Heats of oak said:


> She did try again telling me "You are so wrong"! "You are so wrong"!
> 
> Should I go public with it?


Let's see. She is having a relationship with another man that not only makes you uncomfortable but is threatening to break up your marriage and that she is either unwilling or unable to end. So how are you "so wrong?"

No, she is wrong for thinking she can have her cake and eat it too. You gave her the ultimatum. Nothing else need be said.


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## Shaggy

Heats of oak said:


> She did try again telling me "You are so wrong"! "You are so wrong"!
> 
> Should I go public with it?


How would you go public to? At this point she's hoping if she waits you will back down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

was that a yes or a no?


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## Beowulf

You have to decide if she can be trusted to maintain NC with the OM on her own. If you want to give her another chance to go NC with the guy that is up to you. What are your conditions for R. Have you laid them out? You've already given her the ultimatum and she is still lying to you. Do you want to give her time to sleep on it? Give her a deadline? I'm not sure why.

I think she's already proven that she can't. And she's denying everything and trying to make you question yourself. If she doesn't start doing everything you need in order to stay with her then definitely expose to everyone you can. Let the people know you are only doing it because you have already tried reasoning with her but she is unwilling to end it. You need their help in order to save your marriage. Maybe after exposure she will see you are serious and will begin to break out of her fog.


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## Entropy3000

Heats of oak said:


> She did try again telling me "You are so wrong"! "You are so wrong"!
> 
> Should I go public with it?


So you are wrong to make her chose?

Sure I would go public with it. Why not?


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> She did try again telling me "You are so wrong"! "You are so wrong"!
> 
> Should I go public with it?


Wrong about what? she's been lying time and time again. Tell her you have no faith in her words any more. 

It's up to you whether you want to go public or not, me personally I wouldn't want to.


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## Complexity

any update heart of oak?


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## Heats of oak

I am so confused with all this now..hence the absence..not sure what's happening..I know what I saw..i reacted in a way that was a normal reaction (I like to think) when I mentioned that she would have to drop it or I go public she cried..is she trying to take my kids away from me?..is she waiting for her visa before she drops the bomb shel?..her cousin hs told me that she is not the sort of person to act in a manner that is of a school kid..or neither is she the type to build what have and then throw it all away..the turmoil is driving me bonkers!..I really wanna say, "you know what?..its over"..but then my kids..I am not sure what to believe anymore..


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## Complexity

Sorry you're going through this man. Why don't you just have a heart to heart talk without any confrontation or fighting and ask her all of these things. It would seem pretty cruel for her just to wait it out until she gets the visa without being honest with you.


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## Heats of oak

Thats what I thought and keep thinking..she does not appear nor does she come accross as being that devious, and without sounding too BETA..I..not sure man!..I have asked her and again she has stressed that it is just a good friend and have also asked various other fellow countrymen of hers and they tell me its unlikely as she has now a family, a beatiful one at that and the chances of a long distant affair is unlikely..kinda fried my own head up now..lol..I love her to bits..we have spoken at length she has cried loads..she is even going to counselling for this now..she comes from a loving family unit very supportive and would be devistated if they knew what was happening..and I know that if they felt she was in any danger or was in a situation they would be here at the drop of a hat to take her and the kids back to Chile..again she has never given me any doubt before..so why now?..I think I could be, could be pushing HER away..


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> Thats what I thought and keep thinking..she does not appear nor does she come accross as being that devious, and without sounding too BETA..I..not sure man!..I have asked her and again she has stressed that it is just a good friend and have also asked various other fellow countrymen of hers and they tell me its unlikely as she has now a family, a beatiful one at that and the chances of a long distant affair is unlikely..kinda fried my own head up now..lol..I love her to bits..we have spoken at length she has cried loads..she is even going to counselling for this now..she comes from a loving family unit very supportive and would be devistated if they knew what was happening..and I know that if they felt she was in any danger or was in a situation they would be here at the drop of a hat to take her and the kids back to Chile..again she has never given me any doubt before..so why now?..I think I could be, could be pushing HER away..


You say you were a stand up husband before this, you were very involved with the family right? therefore I don't understand what could've led her to seek out this friend and be so stubborn about keeping the relationship with him. Could it be they had a relationship before she emigrated and old feelings have surfaced? without being too cynical could it be she married you because of the opportunities you would give her but her heart remained with him? 

I know it feels like the more you push the more she recluses but there is something fishy going on here.


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## Eli-Zor

Heats of oak said:


> I am so confused with all this now..hence the absence..not sure what's happening..I know what I saw..i reacted in a way that was a normal reaction (I like to think) when I mentioned that she would have to drop it or I go public she cried..is she trying to take my kids away from me?..is she waiting for her visa before she drops the bomb shel?..her cousin hs told me that she is not the sort of person to act in a manner that is of a school kid..or neither is she the type to build what have and then throw it all away..the turmoil is driving me bonkers!..I really wanna say, "you know what?..its over"..but then my kids..I am not sure what to believe anymore..




I am losing the plot or your not listening , the 180 purposefully guides you to avoid the conversations you are continuing to have. Your wife is not going to tell you the truth while she senses your wavering or in conflict with her. 

Again run the 180
Go check your solicitor to assure yourself of your rights to keep your children in your current country.
Take their passports and hide them 
Wait , monitor and review the situation. 

At this moment you are so desperate to get an answer your head is in turmoil , you know what you read in her mails stop looking for a reason to doubt yourself . If your wife is so innocent she would have readily dropped the friend to protect your marriage . Instead she is sending mails and you are making her swear on the bible knowing she is going to lie. 

Here is a 2x4 said with the best intent -----Get a grip on yourself , stop doing your plan it is not working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

If you insist on having another conversation copy the NC template and ask her to send it to the OM . If she declines of argues you have your answer .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

I am still the same stand up guy..but have stopped being too concerned with house duties and what not and she has not been doing the "maternal thing" around the house..cleaning and that sort of stuff. She comes from a very sociable background and is a very sociable person..I dont think she married me becasue of oppotunities as she was doing a PHD when we met (in barcelona) she had all these dreams and aspirations.. and still does but the transition from us moving back to the UK from Latin America has been tough on her she has not found work in the almost 2yrs she's been her and that has played part to her "depression". The person in question has a family of his own they all thought, (her collective group) of school chums thought this guy had died and when she found out he had not it was a surprise so she wanted to, I guess find out what had happened to him, she tells me they were never an item but sat next together in class and as kids they shared laughter and, you know the jokes kids have in class and I guess she wanted to catch that up again..(I kinda understand) the school group they have got together to find or seek out more classmates just for gossiping sake, you know..friends reunited an all that jazz..again she has made it clear that she is not a "****" her own words..and when she loves someone (me) thats it they have a saying "amor lejo, amor pendejo" meaning a long distance affair is no worth its weight in gold, and that she is here with me, she wants to be here with me and kids..and that it is merely an old friend whom she had not seen nor heard of in sometime..we have been through the mill as a family now liviing in sheltered accommodation (2 bedrooms) and we are a family of 5, I am only working part time..so this is all or has all taken its toll on all of us..added to the fact that I am a stress head..its gonna test us to breaking point..literaly!


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## Eli-Zor

She can type the thirty or so words in the NC letter and assuming she keeps NC the healing begins. Your stress is clear on your writings the reason for the 180 is help you get control of your emotions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

Thanks Eli-Zor..much appreciated.


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## Complexity

I see, I think you're situation is more complex than we can fathom over a couple internet posts. If you think your wife is a woman of character and most importantly you see sincerity in what she's telling you then you should back off. However if at the same time she continues to lie about her contact with the other man then you can't help yourself but wonder. I really don't know what to think about this whole situation.


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## Eli-Zor

Your wife and children can sense your behaviours, be calm and firm, show your family you have control of the situation. 

Your wife should go to work, as you are financially distressed she should be out working even if it is not in her chosen profession. If full time jobs are hard to come by she can temp. In today's economy few families can afford to have one spouse working. Plus a busy day keeps her occupied, leaves little time for gossip, restores pride in herself and helps restore calmness in the family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heats of oak

You and me both my friend..you and me both..I need to back off with the pressure and also the negaivity around at the moment is so, so tense..its like a pressure valve..and it has been a bit full on for both of us and of course we have the kids there..only today my middle daughter said that "mummy married you, not anyone else"..so that in itself speak volumes..


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## Heats of oak

Eli-Zor said:


> Your wife and children can sense your behaviours, be calm and firm, show your family you have control of the situation.
> 
> Your wife should go to work, as you are financially distressed she should be out working even if it is not in her chosen profession. If full time jobs are hard to come by she can temp. In today's economy few families can afford to have one spouse working. Plus a busy day keeps her occupied, leaves little time for gossip, restores pride in herself and helps restore calmness in the family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have asked and suggested that she take up any job as I have had to, but to no avail..maybe I have not been firm enough with her in that respect..


----------



## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> You and me both my friend..you and me both..I need to back off with the pressure and also the negaivity around at the moment is so, so tense..its like a pressure valve..and it has been a bit full on for both of us and of course we have the kids there..only today my middle daughter said that "mummy married you, not anyone else"..so that in itself speak volumes..


I think it's best to cool it off for a bit. If she's going to cheat she's going to do it, there's nothing you can do to stop it. I don't know maybe her erratic behaviour stems from the financial difficultly you're in and the fact there are no jobs here in the UK doesn't help. If you sense that you're alienating her and that feeling from your gut that she cheating is gone, perhaps you should take a different route.

I must advise you though, do whatever you can to find a steady job, joblessness I've found is the BIGGEST thing that make women resent their men.


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## Heats of oak

Complexity said:


> I think it's best to cool it off for a bit. If she's going to cheat she's going to do it, there's nothing you can do to stop it. I don't know maybe her erratic behaviour stems from the financial difficultly you're in and the fact there are no jobs here in the UK doesn't help. If you sense that you're alienating her and that feeling from your gut that she cheating is gone perhaps you should take a different route.
> 
> I must advise you though, do whatever you can to find a steady job, joblessness I've found is the BIGGEST things that make women resent their men.


I think so too..and I agree if its going to happen then..like you say, its going to happen. I am working at the moment, it is her who is not working and our current situation is not helping her state of mind nor mine and these events over the last week or so have definately not helped. We can and do talk amicably and generaly get on but the amount of time she spends on laptop is whats killing me..I have told her and she says its only a phase..it could well be, all I can do is stay true to her while we sort this out and also keep my mind healthy and carry on with what I have been doing (kids) and of course avoid any link to whats happened. I just want it to be over and done with so we can move forward adnI guess we are if we're still talking..its a start.


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## Complexity

Heats of oak said:


> I think so too..and I agree if its going to happen then..like you say, its going to happen. I am working at the moment, it is her who is not working and our current situation is not helping her state of mind nor mine and these events over the last week or so have definately not helped. We can and do talk amicably and generaly get on but the amount of time she spends on laptop is whats killing me..I have told her and she says its only a phase..it could well be, all I can do is stay true to her while we sort this out and also keep my mind healthy and carry on with what I have been doing (kids) and of course avoid any link to whats happened. I just want it to be over and done with so we can move forward adnI guess we are if we're still talking..its a start.


Maybe because she has no job and has become bored of being a stay at home mum, she's sought attention elsewhere and in a sense become addicted not to the other man but the fun it gives her from reminiscing about old times, it perhaps helps to alleviate her depression. You say she was a sociable person before? I guess that where the problem lies, she feels suffocated being at home.

I guess finding work would be the best way to get her off the laptop and would help her find friends you can both approve of. Until then I guess you should back off a little and show some gestures of reconnecting with each other after the hellish past week.


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## Heats of oak

We have been, but the odd flair up has occured due more to me and my irritable stubborness, we spent the day out as a family yesterday which was something we have not done in a while..so its gonna be a slow steady process but with a calm and rational approach "we can work it out" we need to..


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## Complexity

Yeah goodluck, keep us updated.


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## Heats of oak

will do mate


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## Heats of oak

*Re: Same game different match*

Evening all!!..

Hope you are all ok, i know its been a while since i last posted..things are on the up...well..at least i hink they are.

managed to salvage something of the marriage, or at least i think we have. We no longer go to marriage counciling as it was, (as mentioned) a waste of time, I just saw it as a chance for us both to slate, vent ill feelings and cuss each other.

Things have since gone from extremely bad through the worse phase and are making steady, but extremely slow progresses in what i hope is the right direction.

What is now happening is that the affection from my wife has more or less vanished from our marriage, not that there was a great deal from her in the first place..I again, like an ass, am showing way too much affection and have started becoming the beta male...again she is still in contact with her old school chum but not as much as before, she has changed all passwords on email and FB accounts, spends most of the time clutching her mobile phone and is still adamant that she wants a "holiday".

I have been very insecure..she had a friend visit a couple of months back and i was subsequently frozen out of the picture...left on the side lines...one night i went so far as to record their conversaions via a hidden mobile phone..(could not makeout what was said), i have called her a ***** and told her to F*** off!!..and the has now mentioned that she is not ready to go out with me at night other than -only to the movies...still tells me she loves me but is not in love with me...sex is back on..but i have to initiate things...and it only happens when "SHE" is in the mood for it..has not changed with regard to domestic duties, still is not working, i have saved a substantial part of the monies needed for her visa..but am seriously having second thoughts about it. 

How can I tell if she really loves me?...she does not approach me to offer hugs, nor does she ever get "cosy" with me in front of the television..nor do we just sit and chat, the only time we do chat is in the bedroom, in bed..the harsh reality is now kicking into my mind set and I am close to saying "I dont want to be with you anymore" ...there is more to say...Time walk away...right?


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## happyman64

Heats,

She wants a "holiday"? How about a nice one way trip out of your life.

Tell her you refuse to live in a loveless marriage, that you have tried everything (if you feel that you have) you can think of to get her to love you again.

Then hand her Divorce papers and tell her to have a nice trip.

If she is still in contact with OM and guards her phone then don't you have enough to know she is still having an affair with the OM.

Tell her you are moving on with your life to find someone that will respect you, love you and cherish a marriage with you.

HM64


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## Beowulf

Heats,

You are in a one sided open relationship. If you do not do something to change the status quo its only going to get worse. The way you are currently handling things you are allowing your marriage to slowly rot away. Why are you putting yourself through this?


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## Heats of oak

What about my behaviour?...has that not caused turbulance?...the friends i have spoken to about her comments have said "thats a bit harsh"...and its not that she may or not be having an EA but the fact that she will at every opportunity comment, discuss our people she knows, as if to be-little me and complain, for example she said (in a harsh and cruel way) that in all the time we have been together "I" have not been able to buy car..and stuff like that, things that one would not expect to hear from someone who supposedly loves you for who you are...someone who is meant to love you.

Not so long ago i paid for her to have her hair done £40 and then gave her money to go out another £50...I am just leaving myself open for this abuse..am I not?


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## Heats of oak

Beowulf said:


> Heats,
> 
> You are in a one sided open relationship. If you do not do something to change the status quo its only going to get worse. The way you are currently handling things you are allowing your marriage to slowly rot away. Why are you putting yourself through this?


So what do I do?...tell her point blank this the end?


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## iheartlife

She clutches her mobile but she only 'may' be in an EA? There is no 'may' when they clutch the mobile. She IS in an EA with him. If you were to read her texts, all doubt would vanish. Have you looked at her cell phone records? She probably texts him for hours. Have a look if you don't believe us.

Get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. You are in need of some self-respect, she has robbed you blind of nearly all of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

*Re: Same game different match*



Heats of oak said:


> \Things have since gone from extremely bad through the worse phase and are making steady, but extremely slow progresses in what i hope is the right direction.
> 
> What is now happening is that the affection from my wife has more or less vanished from our marriage, not that there was a great deal from her in the first place..I again, like an ass, am showing way too much affection and have started becoming the beta male...again she is still in contact with her old school chum but not as much as before, she has changed all passwords on email and FB accounts, spends most of the time clutching her mobile phone and is still adamant that she wants a "holiday".


I'm not understanding this, so how the heck is this progress in the right direction? Looks like she's still in the affair and you refuse to do anything about it even after all these months.


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## lordmayhem

Heats of oak said:


> So what do I do?...tell her point blank this the end?


Yes.

People have been telling you what to do for the last 14+ pages already and you refuse to do it. 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink it...so true in this case.


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## MattMatt

New to your thread, but is she depressed? Depressed people can act like utter b****rds to those they love.


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## Heats of oak

she has been for some time...due to not working..


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## lordmayhem

I suggest you read bigtimemess's thread. See how its done.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49023-just-found-out-about-my-wifes-affair.html


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## anonymouskitty

lordmayhem said:


> Yes.
> 
> People have been telling you what to do for the last 14+ pages already and you refuse to do it.
> 
> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink it...so true in this case.


:iagree:, its really disheartening to see a lot of BS refusing to make wise decisions instead of hanging about playing the victim card. We are not victims by choice friend, we are victims of circumstance. So unless you're willing to change those circumstances, you'll always be a victim.
I think this stems from the fact that they try to suppress or even deny that their spouse may not be angelic.

Acceptance of the situations is the first step in rectifying them.


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