# What's your weapon of choice?



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I had about enough of getting sex used on me as a weapon to get me to obey and do as I am told or not get any for long periods of time, yet I didn't have any way of hurting my Wife in return, no defense against this weapon other that cheating, witch I am not ready to do right now.

I am a nice guy for the most part and HATE arguing or having bad blood with my Wife but I also will not bend to the whim of a psycho just because she wishes it so.

She withheld sex from me for a longer than normal time, in punishment for what I did. A kind of weak punishment on her part given sex with her sucks to begin with and we only do it once every couple of months anyway, but like I said,

I've had ENOUGH!

So this time I decided to fight back, but was racking my brain as to what I could possibly do to punish her.

Now this might be different for most people but I'm sure everyone has something that they can be punished with.

I stopped giving my Wife massages or foot rubs, PERIOD, till she gives me sex. 
She thought I was kidding because she knows that I have a conscience and care about her and will eventually give in, but not this time. The other night she came to me begging to fix her back because it really hurt her and I know how to alliviate that, and I said, "NO!, remember the conversation we had about this?"
She laughed and left the room saying, "you think you can bribe me to give you sex, well you are the one that's going to suffer!"

Wow, big words, now this is going to be fun...

My Wife doesn't know it, but she isn't as fine as she thinks she is and her mouth wrote a check that her a_s will not be able to cash. She disgusts me now because she is such a b_tch and I'd prefer "taking care of business" to the internet porn girls to having to ever pleasure her again. 

Eventually, when I need actual physical contact, I will cheat on her, but until then, I will simply let her suffer as she is trying to make me suffer.


----------



## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

wow...


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I had a few weapons of choice: spending sprees, destroying his stuff, and basically cussing him out. 

but really, that's not a very fun place to be. i really hated the person id become. i know you want to make your wife suffer, but the irony is you will never get even and are just making yourself suffer more. because if you cheat on your wife then you are the immature a** and it will effect you the rest of your life. as will your current state of mind- basically your wife might be a b*tch, but you are also a jerk. no one will see you as the victim.


----------



## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

If your wife disgusts you and is such a B*tch why waste your time making her suffer (which I really don't think she's suffering as much as you think she's going to considering her laughing at you when she walked out of the room)? If you're going to cheat on her then why not just leave her? Cheating will just make you look like an a$$ as mentioned above. 

Withholding sex on her behalf or yours always does more harm than good anyway....that's been proven and there are several stories on here I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll see them.


----------



## aurorazz (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow, this is so destructive. You may have been a nice guy. But I think you are losing it. You need to find some way to save yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## preso (May 1, 2009)

so you want to punish her....

take her shopping and make her spend 1,000 dollars of your money and make sure anything she buys is for hereself, stuff she doesn't need... frivilous stuff... get a makeover, new hairdo, new clothing, new jewelry, new handbag and wallet...
that'll teach her to mess with you !!!!


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

This is not a marriage anymore, so you might as well leave. 

She is not withholding sex from you--she just doesn't want to have sex with you, and is unwilling to force herself to indulge you. Once you understand this--SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU--you can decide whether or not you want to deal with it. Your solution, "punishing" her, is just ridiculous and will not make her want to be sexual with you. It will just give her more reasons to feel repulsed by you.

What you really need to do--if you want to fix this--is get some serious counseling. Women become repulsed by their husbands esp. after having had sex when they didn't want it in the first place. Sex without desire does not feel good. 

This is not "your" problem, by the way--it's a marriage problem, for both of you. So either decide to work on the marriage, ask her to participate, or decide to walk. What you are doing is destructive to everyone. I hope there are no children witnessing the way you are treating one another.

By the way, she is equally responsible for her lack of desire, and she has no right to laugh at you about something important to you. She is also being ridiculous. But, you can man up to address the issues or leave--quit playing a stupid game. This is real life, NOT a game.


----------



## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

Agreed its not worth staying in a marriage that has this kind of crap going on. If she doesn't want to have sex with you then she's not going to. I'm sure she is taking care of her needs without you just like you are without her. 

Just get out of the marriage and cut the ties because that is obviously what you both want! Secondly GROW UP!!! Both of you!! I'm hoping you two don't have kids because what an example your both setting if you did.

Sorry but this is just how I'm feeling right now.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

You're both playing games like you're still in high school. 

Twisted.

Let each other go and just divorce already.


----------



## Tootsiepop (Sep 7, 2009)

WOW is right! 

How old are you two? I don't think either of you is mature enough to be married! This is real life about real people and you both are playing games! 

Work on yourselves first then see if you're capable of having a relationship.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

slap her sorry ass with a divorce and move on


----------



## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

okeydokie,

She might like that.. Don't give them any more ammo


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

Loving Husband said:


> okeydokie,
> 
> She might like that.. Don't give them any more ammo


:iagree:

Yeah, no worries, she ain't getting off that easily. :rofl:

First off thank you all for the honesty and sorry for my rant, I seem to need to vent a lot more lately, but thanks for taking the time to give your opinions. 
The negative stuff is sometimes more helpful the one's from someone that is in the same boat, because it gives you a look at the other sides logic.

That being said. 

*okeydokie*



> slap her sorry ass with a divorce and move on


I have a wonderful little boy with her and I don't trust her alone with him on a one off when we don't have a baby sitter, let alone for extended periods of time without me there to protect him from her.


*aurorazz*


> Wow, this is so destructive. You may have been a nice guy. But I think you are losing it. You need to find some way to save yourself.


I think I am still a nice guy, I just don't think that she deserves a nice guy right now. 

*Blanca*

Nice job fessing up to having once used weapons in your past relationships. 

No one else has any, I guess...?

I agree that I am not taking the high road, or winning any friends with my views but I have actually not done anything yet, because I am not a true "jerk". 
I do have a conscience, but I am also done being nice to someone that is not appreciative or deserving.

Now, back to the weapons. 

Mine is a passive aggressive one unfortunately, because I would never win a full on frontal, toe to toe assault against my woman. 

It's a thing we jokingly say to each other when we are not happy with something. 

"I'm on strike!"

No more foot rubs, massages, cooking without making her help or do the dishes after, no more being treated like a princes or anything special. 

She has actually responded well to this and changed her tone a little, so at least in the short term, I seem to be having some success getting my point across. 

The problem now is that she want's me and I just want to throw up from the thought of having to pleasure her.


----------



## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

Sooooo..... 

You want to punish her for withholding sex, even though you said sex with her 'sucks' and the thought of pleasuring her makes you want to throw up... you're using porn now but seem resigned that you will cheat when you feel like it....

You said she's a psycho who you don't trust to be alone with your son... 

What's the point? Not letting her "get off that easy"? A nice guy for sure...


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

*nightshade*

Even the nicest guys have their limits, heck Jesus got pissed because there were vendors in front of a place of worship, he lost it and kicked the tables over and dam near assaulted the poor guys trying to make a buck. Google it.
Plus, I'm not trying to win any "nice guy" awards here, I'm just trying to get sex from the only person that I am "allowed" to ask for sex from. 
I have not yet cheated, because my only opportunities (with women in my area) would only add more problems to my life than it would solve. 
No, I will save my cheating for a trip to the bunny ranch, where I can "pay" for the sex without the emotional "fatal attraction" stuff that comes with affairs. It truly is just about the sex after all. Prostitution is legal and regulated by the state of Nevada, just a few hours drive, a fishing trip away. 
A friend of mine went years ago, and said it was cool.

Yeah, I guess originally I did want the sex, but I think that was just a knee jerk reaction to the concept of us being married and her being my only option.

No, sorry to say, she put too high a price on it and now I don't want it, from her. If I have to go through all kinds of drama for sex I might as well be getting better quality or at least variety, right. 
Then, her doling "it" (sex) out like a treat for a dog in training or something, now that's just insulting to me as a human being. 
A little respect, please.

I'm sorry but I have my needs no matter what point this or any other woman is trying to prove, am a good looking enough man to not be in need of sex and I would be getting or at least trying to get it on a regular basis if I were a cheater or single.

Thus, I'm a nice guy, raised by my grandma, with old word morals and ideals. Respect, responsibility, religion (although that last one I have issue with) I have always had a 
"code of conduct" that helps me be a viable member of society.
A good friend, a great father and husband, and a loyal, hard working employee. 
It is my responsibility as a Husband to take care of her needs, physical, emotional, financial,which I have to do regularly or she will complain or start acting out in some way.
It's her responsibility as a Wife to take care of me, physically, emotionally, and sexually. 

Now, is the failure to meet these needs grounds for divorce? Probably, what isn't, but neither one of us wants that. 

Hmmm. :scratchhead:


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

This relationship is over if this is what you're both stooping to. Why do you continue? What's the point? You're both behaving like children.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I wish I knew why women use sex as a weapon, and I can't speak for my Wife, but I am just trying to stand my ground, stand for what I feel is right.

It is my responsibility to try and break my Wife of her bad habits as it is hers to try and mold me into the man she wants. 

I guess the manipulation thing is a natural bi-product of two strong independent minds coming together and not being able or possibly willing to compromise.

Right now I am enjoying some success with this technique of negative reinforcement or rather conditioning, as much as I hate the fact that I have to resort to "games" I seem to have a knack for it.

Now, does anyone out there wish to share their stories of manipulation, passive aggressiveness or any other means to an end in the back and forth ground battle in the war of the sexes and or social dominance over a partner?

I'm sure if some of us are just a little honest and not so worried about your reputation on this forum, there should be more than one example of this type of behavior, games, that we probably all play to get what we want or stack the deck in our favor.


----------



## EVknoble (Sep 10, 2009)

"Now, does anyone out there wish to share their stories of manipulation, passive aggressiveness or any other means to an end in the back and forth ground battle in the war of the sexes and or social dominance over a partner?"

I can't believe your still talking.

This really has no relevance to the "General Relationship discussion" thread you posted it under.

You know, as part of my being a better husband I am trying to let less anger into my life, this does not help. I have ignored this post since the first time I read it... but now I had to say something. 

You know, I am going to go home and break my wife's bad habit of complaining about her sore feet... I am going to massage them. If that doesn't show her, I may just go and fold all the clothes downstairs, I don't want her to use them as a bunker in the war.

Get happy or get out.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

EVknoble said:


> "You know, I am going to go home and break my wife's bad habit of complaining about her sore feet... I am going to massage them. If that doesn't show her, I may just go and fold all the clothes downstairs, I don't want her to use them as a bunker in the war.



i hope you get laid afterwards :smthumbup:


----------



## angryandfrustrated (Sep 12, 2009)

First off, I can kind of see where you are coming from. My pain has turned into outright rage too. I find myself wishing that I could make my husband feel the way he makes me feel, but I know that I can't because he is too selfish to love me as much as I love him. Is your wife the same way?


If I have ever used sex it was just because I felt like I was out of things that my husband cared about (obviously at this point my feelings didnt matter) that didnt involve our children. Lately I havent been having sex with him because it makes me sick. All I want is to feel some sort of physical connection to him, so that it feels right. He still rarely (probably once a week) hugs me, kisses me, or tells me that he loves me, and I've explained that I need some kind of nonsexual affection daily, but I guess it's too much for him. I dont feel like he does love me and when I have sex with him I feel like a prostitute or worse. I think being a prostitute might be easier, because then I wouldnt be wondering why he doesnt love me like he used to.

I have to say when we do have sex I am not nearly as active as I used to be, because I dont really feel like a participant. So the sex isnt that great when we do have it. I resent it too much because I spend my time wondering why its ok to have sex for that amount of time but not to cuddle for any amount.

It doesnt sound like this is the case with your marriage since up until recently you would give your wife massages. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt though and assuming that she isnt doing it on purpose. Maybe she just doesnt feel comfortable with it anymore. I would suggest that maybe you start all over, something must have attracted you to her and her to you. Compliment her, court her, and touch her like you did when you remembered what it was. 

Also I caught that you HATE arguing, so does my husband so he refuses to talk about anything that isnt pleasant. Make sure you arent doing the same thing. If you need to fight once in a while when your home alone do it, it of course would be better if you could talk it out, but just make sure that she has time to disagree when you will participate. Otherwise your effort in not fighting is actually causing her to need to rant more just so that you might hear, and pushing her away.


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Something that a lot of men don't understand is that sex isn't used as a weapon as much as it is used as a line where it says as a woman, I'm not feeling close to you and I don't want sex with you. When I was married previously, the less my needs were considered, the less I wanted to have sex. Finally I had no respect for the man. Do you think I wanted to sleep with him? Absolutely not. 

People who can't understand that if your spouse is angry at you and they don't want to have sex with you -- THAT IS NORMAL. Instead of thinking about it in terms of control, why not think about how your spouse isn't having their fundamental needs met? 

Anyway, I'll state it again -- this relationship is over. It has turned into a pathetic and dysfunctional relationship. It is certainly not a marriage. 

Maybe you'll do better next time around, but I'd suggest looking at yourself first.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> i hope you get laid afterwards :smthumbup:


:rofl:

He don't care if he get's laid because he will stop his Wife from complaining about her soar genitals by taking care of himself in the shower while he cries.

*EVknoble*

You swear like I and other men on this forum dealing with women that withhold sex haven't tried to be a nice guy and do all that a woman would need. 
I have rubbed her nasty smelly feet (and I hate feet) 
a thousand times at least, massaged her back, no matter how tire I am and just want to be left alone to sleep, I rubbed her back, even when my hand was killing me because I hurt my thumb playing football and was in extreme pain. 
I do all the cooking, help her clean even though she's supposed to do that, since she don't cook.
I take care of our child, who is 2 1/2 and can work a nerve while she sits there watching soaps, kind of have to because if she gets up to deal with him she's mean and so I take on most of the burden of having to deal with him all day even when I need a break because I don't trust her not to be mean to him.

No. Some women like your woman might react positively to being treated like a queen and then there are those that just act like it's a given and only act out when you don't bow down to them.


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Carma, dump the ice queen! You can do better!


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

dobo said:


> Carma, dump the ice queen! You can do better!


I will probably dump her eventually but on my terms and after I am satisfied that I have gotten what I want out of this relationship.
Plus, of coarse it's not all bad or else she would have already divorced me already.
I just post the negative stuff because that's what I need to get off my chest and need help with.

*dobo*


> Something that a lot of men don't understand is that sex isn't used as a weapon as much as it is used as a line where it says as a woman, I'm not feeling close to you and I don't want sex with you.


Something that a lot of women don't understand is that when you use sex as a weapon to force things to go your way, or as a gage to express (show) your unhappiness or your protest at us not helping with the dishes or because any other reason, us men stop caring so much about "your sex" and just start hating you and your sex that is not worth the trouble anymore.



> People who can't understand that if your spouse is angry at you and they don't want to have sex with you -- THAT IS NORMAL.


People who don't understand that if your a man and your woman plays too many games with sex or puts a too high of a price on it, that we men will want to and are well within their right to get it somewhere else and THAT IS NORMAL and a logical outcome. 

Then we (men) act like jerks to you more so because now you are just some annoying thing we have to deal with, without a reward for our troubles.



> Instead of thinking about it in terms of control, why not think about how your spouse isn't having their fundamental needs met?


Yeah like the fundamental need us men are not having met, 
WHEN WE DON'T GET LAID BY OUR WIFES!

A vicious cycle indeed. :scratchhead:


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Whatever feelings you have or don't have toward your wife---you are both adults. You're unhappy, don't feel its worth working on, then its time to make the break and get on with your life. 

The problem I DO have with your post is: "I take care of our child, who is 2 1/2 and can work a nerve while she sits there watching soaps, kind of have to because if she gets up to deal with him she's mean and so I take on most of the burden of having to deal with him all day even when I need a break because I don't trust her not to be mean to him."

Taking care of your OWN child, is NOT a burden. It is first and foremost your responsibility. You chose to have a child, and you chose to have him with this woman. Something in her character had to clue you in before you had him that she might not be an ideal parent. So, while you may be stepping in to take care of him because you are afraid she will be MEAN to him if she does, if there is even a HINT of the attitude of "taking care of him is a burden" when you interact with him, do NOT fool yourself into thinking he does not pick up on it, and internalize it. Perhaps THAT is the reason he can "work your nerve" as you said, because he FEELS the animosity that comes thru in both of your actions. Quit playing games, if for nobody else but your son.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

You are right *Mommybean* it is my fault that I married this woman, her Mom and Grandma warned me about her selfish, princess attitude, her horrible temper and I half saw it myself first hand when she cheated on me but love makes people do stupid things and I do love her, I just hate her using sex as a weapon.

It is both of our responsibility to watch our son, and I recent all the responsibility always being on me because she is a useless peace of ___ and can't get over herself long enough to be nice to him, while I am cooking and can't watch him or when i need a break.

My son does notice things and he calls his Mom a jerk. :rofl:
I was laughing my ass off the first time he called her that, I was like "see, even a two year old can see you are a jerk".

No, he loves his Daddy so much, it's me and him against the world most of the time.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I feel sorry for you carma,

But lets face it, you are becoming more and more twisted right in front of our eyes. You actually had the solution to your problem in the palm of your hand a few posts ago, but you were so stoned you missed it at the time.

It's all a matter of balance. You are right to want to be less of a "nice guy", but you are wrong to seek comfort in vengeance. 

Going back to my point above when I said you had the answer in the palm of your hand... You mentioned she was actually coming on to you the other day. This is what you originally wanted. It was almost certainly brought on by your withdrawal from her, and a fear that your withdrawal might escalate. But you turned her down becuase it was not on your terms.

Silly, silly boy. It was on your terms, you just forgot what they were. Wake up and stop smoking so much weed. Then you might not go in circles so often. 

In life we have to remember what it is we are trying to achieve form time to time, or it all gets a bit silly.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

Your probably right *MarkTwain* about me being high when she came to me for sex and I rejected her, because I noticed that I have picked up the frequency of my smoking since I have been threatened not to and punished for having done it with the with holding of sex, which she is still doing purposely as punishment for the pot thing, I just found out last night in a playful almost about to do "it" conversation. I am a bit of a sicko I guess, who isn't, but compared to the bold, right in front of your face, acts on my Wife's part to hurt me on purpose, I'm a f___ing saint!

No but seriously, she deserves what ever is coming to her, she obviously doesn't give a isht about my feelings and feels empowered enough to beso bold as to lead me in with affection, or using me to get her affection fix with the ass grabbing and crotch rubbing all day, in the kitchen in the living room with the feet in molesting me like a monkey.
All this stuff she does makes my skin crawl and I have been purposely avoiding physical contact with her, hard to do when your in a 700 square foot one bed room apt with a tiny kitchen and a live with a woman that feels like she could do what ever she wants while trying to punish me, a full grown man.

Ok. So last night I tried to initiate, subtly, because at this point I feel like I'm being raped or having to have sex with someone nasty or grouse that I'd sooner kick in the face than kiss and rejection might put me over the edge and you'd be hearing about me on the news the next day when I turn myself in.
Anyway, sorry for the rant but I'm pissed.
This B__CH has the nerve to tell me you know I'm not happy with you or over what you did, this time I didn't retort with anything, I just said ok and went to bed. I hadn't actually gotten aroused at all so I didn't have to take care of business and after the wanting to strangle her feeling went away I slept like a baby. 
In the middle of the night this woman that thinks she's god, or my mother or something, tried to spoon me from behind.
I woke up being fondled and so I kicked her in her shin or knee somewhere as hard as I could and still make it look like an involuntary jerk that happened to land HARD!!!

She cried out in pain, yelped so as to not wake the baby, and moved away. GOOD! Oh that felt to good. 

FTB If I didn't hate her before I do now, and if I wasn't going to do her wrong before, now I kind of have to.

She was all sweet and caring with me this morning trying to have the usual morning talk like if we are buddies or something and asking for her kiss after I out the baby int he car seat and kissed him. I did it and have been acting nice too so as to not show my hand, but oh man she has something horrible coming to her.

She might be Bi-polar, some of her uncles and grandpa were and are and her own family (Mom and Grandma) warned me that they always thought she might be. She will never admit it and just expects to be treated like she's perfectly sane or not abnormal I mean. I felt sorry for her once and thought to myself that I need to get her some help or at least try and be understanding, but that ship has sailed.

I don't know... I was a nice guy once and will probably have a chance of being one again with this woman if she fixes her isht or someone else, but for now, I'm going to enjoy making her suffer.

I wonder if she really is impaired enough to not realize what is coming her way? If I where her I would divorce me now, because she will wish she did. 

Again, sorry for the rant, but I am so pissed for sticking my hand out last night only to have it slapped.

Thank you all for listening, reading, whatever.

Time for me to gather my forces and re-arm, apparently I need to kick it up a notch. I will keep posting my progress or failures.


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You need help. I cease feeling sorry for you. You're getting what you deserve.


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Yeah. You really DO need help. The only person I feel sorry for in this situation is your son, who is growing up in this screwed up environment.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

Just for sake of understanding what I am doing wrong.

How should I have dealt with this situation differently?

Turned around and held her in my arms, but not try anything sexual and just lay their snuggling?

I truly am curious as to why my reaction, in this situation, is something other than completely logical and warranted.

Sometimes people deserve a good kick in the shins if they try and grab someones junk that they just pissed off, minutes before.

The audacity of this woman to think that, I can't touch her but she can touch me. And I'm sick?

Yeah only a woman can explain this one to me, I hope, because I would really love to get an insight to how this was anything but exactly what was deserved.


----------



## italiana86 (Oct 21, 2008)

aurorazz said:


> Wow, this is so destructive. You may have been a nice guy. But I think you are losing it. You need to find some way to save yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm not going to waste to much time labouring my point. Not because you aren't worth it, but because you seem to have a sort of "death wish" going on. People who are hell-bent on something don't often snap out of it.

You wanted sex. You initiated and got rebuffed the other night. But a few hours later she came on to you and you shined her. The ironic thing is that your tough act is actually working, but you haven't noticed. You're still on auto pilot. 

You want things to be exactly on your terms. It's just your pride getting in your way. But step back a bit... look at what you are achieving. She is touching you up all the time and coming on to you. She wasn't before. So you have actually produced the affect you wanted. But you weren't ready for it. The fact is - the reason you're not having sex is because you don't want to. You have created and maintained this situation.

The answer is simple. s i m p l e!

Wait until she next comes on to you and make it look like you gave in.

As for the weed, I'm not sure you are understanding me. I'm saying it's causing you to become a stuck record. It's turning you into a robot.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

To *Carmer & Hater Hater*

I understand your frustrations, but there is a principle here that is like a law of physics - you can't break it. The principle is "Means and ends are identical". So if you try to achieve peace harmony and hot sex in your marriage by using the instruments of hate and resentment, you will only achieve hate and resentment. Who wants to build a marriage on that? Lots of people it would seem.

Don't get me wrong. A little bit of anger passing between a couple can be healthy. But what we are exploring here is deliberate sabotage.

@ *Carma*
You are actually almost on the the right track. You dropped being Mr Nice Guy, and it's working. But you went too far by turning into Mr. Nasty. The fact that you can derive pleasure out of being Mr. Nasty is what is worrying me. However, everyone has a Dark Side. It's just important not to let take control.

@ *both of you*
Where you went wrong in the first place was to be too nice for too many years. Women don't respect Mr Nice. They use him, and it still does not make them happy. Imagine you had a lovely slim girlfriend, and you fed her on cream cakes morning noon and night. Over time, she would get addicted, get fat and resent you. This is what men do to women when they feed them on a diet on "niceness": They become bloated and fed up with the rich diet of stodge. You need to add seasoning - the salt and pepper of saying NO occasionally and keeping them on their toes. That's what women crave.

So the solution is, to base all your actions on what you want to achieve. If you want more love in your life, then put more love in. But you need to bear a few things in mind: being over-nice does not work. Honesty is better. If from the beginning you had been more honest and firm, your marriages would be different now. You can still bring that state of affairs about now, but it's going to take time to get back to zero before you can get to plus.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

hey mark, i'm now being a complete ***hole to my wife and i love it, she seems to be responding too, thanks


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

This is just sad.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Great post, MarkTwain.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Mommybean said:


> This is just sad.



yes it is, but please don't assume that the wife (in my case) is guiltless in this debacle.


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't make those kinds of assumptions OK. It's just sad that relationships turn into games. There is no love in games, only winners and losers.


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't understand why either of you are in the marriage. Who cares who wins? Both spouses lose in this game and if you have children, they lose the worst. They get to see the worst in people and do you think they learn trust and caring? No. They learn that revenge is what grown ups do when they don't get what they want the way they want it.

You don't recover your balls by becoming a vindictive *******. You have to actually walk with dignity to recover your balls.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

carmaenforcer said:


> :
> 
> I don't trust her not to be mean to him.
> 
> No. Some women like your woman might react positively to being treated like a queen and then there are those that just act like it's a given and only act out when you don't bow down to them.


Did you treat her well because you loved her, or because you wanted sex? Think about this seriously, because women can tell when it's all about getting sex. We feel like we are being "bought," and it ain't a good feeling. If you love me, you do these things without expectation--but you GET more loving of ALL kinds, because we can tell you really love us! That's a huge difference. To make it simple: WHEN YOUR ACTS OF KINDNESS ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT HER, SHE'LL KNOW, AND YOU WILL GET BACK 10-FOLD THE LOVE YOU WANT. 

If she is really so shallow and self-centered and mean, why WOULD you love her? Why would you STAY with her? Why would you HAVE CHILDREN WITH HER???? You made this bed, now figure out a way to make it work--one way or another. And I don't necessarily mean the marriage. I mean, your LIFE. If she is really awful to your kid, get family therapy going and see if both of you can learn to parent better. If nothing else, at least you might begin to document her mistreatment of the child which will strengthen your case for sole custody if that's what you want. If you are truly just being petty b/c you made a mistake, then don't use the child to punish her--that is so wrong. Get divorced, love your kid on your time (and you can get 50/50 if you want it, quit thinking the "system" is so lame and sexist; it's not), and let his mom love him on her time. Maybe she parents differently, but is it really hurtful to him, or just different? I don't particularly like my husband's way of parenting, but I know it is actually in my kids' best interests to have him in their lives AND for them to learn to deal with different types of adults. So, it's ok.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dobo said:


> I don't understand why either of you are in the marriage. Who cares who wins? Both spouses lose in this game and if you have children, they lose the worst. They get to see the worst in people and do you think they learn trust and caring? No. They learn that revenge is what grown ups do when they don't get what they want the way they want it.
> 
> You don't recover your balls by becoming a vindictive *******. You have to actually walk with dignity to recover your balls.



not trying to win anything in my case, i cant say that i am at the "game" level that the other guys are, im just taking charge of my situation, i will not continue down a path to nowhere. 
we dont argue so the kids are unaware that there are issues.

i have communicated my needs specifically (non sexual) and clearly spelled out what needs to change, it aint happening. she has not told me anything she would like to see change. no reciprocation on the communication.

so we both lose, thats called divorce, thats when the dignity comes back


----------



## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Okey, I wasn't including you in my response. You're not the same!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> hey mark, i'm now being a complete ***hole to my wife and i love it, she seems to be responding too, thanks


I don't feel you have quite understood me. Being firm does not include being an ass. That's the mark of an amateur. When you get good at it, there will only be firmness tempered with love. There will be no trace of nastiness.

But with your wilful desire to be the victim, it is not going to be easy for you to gain the insight needed to see into your own nature. Most of what you struggle with comes from within. As long as you blame the other person, you are blinded to the truth.

You can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way takes a life time and does not succeed. Those who tread that path die unfulfilled. As someone once said, you can't struggle with struggle. It will consume all your energy. You have to surrender to the truth. You can shoot me down all you like... it won't change the reality of the situation.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I don't feel you have quite understood me. Being firm does not include being an ass. That's the mark of an amateur. When you get good at it, there will only be firmness tempered with love. There will be no trace of nastiness.
> 
> But with your wilful desire to be the victim, it is not going to be easy for you to gain the insight needed to see into your own nature. Most of what you struggle with comes from within. As long as you blame the other person, you are blinded to the truth.
> 
> You can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way takes a life time and does not succeed. Those who tread that path die unfulfilled. As someone once said, you can't struggle with struggle. It will consume all your energy. You have to surrender to the truth. You can shoot me down all you like... it won't change the reality of the situation.



cmon mark, i was just joking, i am being firm though. we have had several conversations recently, and i have laid out my expectations but she hasnt reciprocated with hers. sex was not part of the conversations. we will see where it leads.


----------



## 20yrs (Sep 18, 2009)

Sooo... in reading through all this, I have come to the conclusion that because we are all wired so differently, it just may work for you two.

She may be LOVING it that you are finally taking a stand as the man.

She just might be missing it more than you know when she knows she can't HAVE it...

Interesting but not hopeless.

Love on her in other ways.... true selfless love has a whole lot of power on us womenfolk.


----------

