# Walk away wives



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Forgive me for posting this here, not sure where I should post it. I found this on a UK discussion board. Those of you who could well be walk away wives will be able to identify with the content, I know some of it I could identify with.

"_Some people think that a WAW is hard, angry, cold. In a fog. There's more to her than that. 

4 years ago, a woman lay in bed at night, not wanting to wake up in the morning. There was no way out. She couldn't divorce him. He would have visitation without her there to protect them. He had never hit them, but he surely didn't understand how to care for them. He didn't even know his own children.

She couldn't leave. She had no job, no way of putting food on the table for the children she loved. She had been dependent for so long, & she trusted this man to provide for her. Now she lay in bed, wondering who he was, & how she got here. These were not the choices she would have made, if she had a 2nd chance. 

She couldn't talk to him. He couldn't hear her. She desperately wanted to share herself with him. He had walls up. She couldn't penetrate them. He seemed so content to work, watch TV, eat & sleep. Why didn't he want more, like she ? 

She felt trapped. She resented herself for letting him treat her this way for so long. He told her often enough, he was a good husband. She needed so much more from him. She tried telling him, for years she tried, then she cried, she begged, she pleaded, but he couldn't hear. 

He was cold, hard, in a fog. 

She tried everything, she read every book. She prayed her heart out. She tried to be more Christ-like. Figuring if she set the example, he would follow. 

She knew it came down to two choices. Her children's happiness, or hers. She would sacrifice hers. She decided to stay, & raise the children, with this man who would never know her. When they moved out, so would she. Then she would salvage what was left of her.

She put her heart in a dusty old box in the top of the closet. It was easier. She didn't hurt anymore, she was numb. 

When she finally quit trying, & tried to fill her hours with distractions, he noticed. His fog was lifting. He wasn't quite so cold, so hard. She didn't care. It was too late. She was numb. Her heart was in that box. She vowed never to take it out again. 

She stumbled through her days, crossing them off in the calendar. Wondering how much longer she could live this way. Did her children see her unhappiness ? She wondered, are they better off with a single happy parent, or with two parents who co-exist ? The torment was eating her alive. What to do ? 

By now, she wasn't sleeping. Wasn't eating. She pulled away from all of her friends. She was dying inside. She desperately wanted, needed to be loved, appreciated, noticed, cherished. She was a beautiful fragile flower slowly dying without water, sunshine & air. 

When no one was watching, she cried. She cried till she ran out of tears. She wanted it to be over, she wanted the pain to stop. Everytime she looked at her husband, it reminded her of the pain. The pain that was consuming her. She turned to alcohol to numb the pain. Anything to make the pain go away. Her friends ask her why she's putting on so much weight. She wonders, why can't anyone see that I'm dying here. She doesn't try to tell the man she shares a bed with, remember, he can't hear her. 

She finally writes him a letter. She says she is done. They need to raise their children, & he's the only one who can be their dad. Now he's fully awake & out of his fog. He's scared. He had no idea how bad she hurt. He thought things were good. He's been living in a separate reality from her. 

He says he'll change, he'll do anything, to make her happy. He says his family is the most important thing to him. She doesn't believe him. She's numb. Her heart is safely in that box. He tries, she watches. He tries some more, she watches. He's dying now. She's numb. Now he wants the pain to stop. She's numb. She wonders why did things have to go this far before he would hear me ? Now she doesn't want to talk to him. She's numb. Talking to him reminds her how much she used to hurt, she can see it in his eyes now. Her survival instincts kick in, at least she doesn't hurt now. She's numb. 

The only place to go from numb is anger. He tries some more, she can see he's making changes. Now comes the buried anger. The anger that she wanted to express to him for all the years past. The anger she was afraid to show. He doesn't realize, angry is better than numb. He takes her anger. For 12 months he takes her anger. Sometimes he fights back, & when he does she goes numb again. 

She's so scared to take her heart out of that dusty box. Numb is so much safer. Angry is so much safer. Does he know how hard it is for her. She knew the day that her children were born, that she would give her life for them. She just didn't know it would be like this. 

Sometimes he tries to push her to heal faster. She's doing her best. He wants more from her at times. She's doing her best. 

Some nights, the pain returns, & she remembers, & she just can't sleep. She's not numb anymore, and the anger is going away. She doesn't know how or where, but it is. She's so scared. Numb is safer. Angry is safer. If she gives in to her fear, to her sometimes overwhelming fear, everyone will call her a Walk Away Wife. She wanted you to know.




That was 4 years ago. Now, this morning I'm laying in the darkness awake again. I go to divorce court in a few hours. So much has changed. I've changed. My kids have changed. I never wanted to be divorced. I wanted my family intact. I wanted my kids to have their dad in the same house. I grew up without a father, I never wanted theirs to be absent. But.......their dad made his own choices. 



He was more absent when he lived in this house. Now that he's in an apartment, when he's with them, he's sometimes actually with them. He talks to them more. He is more involved in their lives. He's taken them to dinner alone & had conversations with them that I begged him to have for years. He has taken them to doctor appointments, and been involved in getting them to and from activities. He went shopping for a Christmas tree with them the other day, he put up Christmas decorations with them. He never did that when he lived here with us. I did everything with the kids. He worked. He escaped into work. He chose not to be involved with me or the kids. He chose work.

Now that I've filed for divorce, he says he can't get a job. He's being a "consultant" and making $1500 a month, so he says he can't pay spousal support. His choice. 

I was a stay at home mom for 15 years. I went out and found a job in 3 months. He has worked and made $100 K a year for the last 3 years, but now he can't find a job. His choice. I'm now a working single mom. Something I never wanted, but now I have choices. 

When he and I were together, I didn't have choices. He was controlling, domineering, chauvanistic, emotionally and verbally abusive. He was withdrawn, silent, cold, and disconnected. He worked. I asked him to talk to me, compromise, take turns. He refused. 

Now I have choices. I'm emotionally & psychologically safe in my own home. I'm rediscovering myself. I'm finding out that I am capable, smart, strong, and confident. 

I am a kite who was meant to soar. He was an anchor. He was insecure and afraid that I would soar, so he beat me down. Verbally, emotionally, and psychologically. 

I'm soaring now. I ran a half marathon two weeks ago. If I would have told him I wanted to do something like that, he would have made it sound stupid for me to even try. I didn't tell anyone, I just did it. For me, for my new self. My stronger independent self. 

I was oppressed for many years of my marriage. Not at first. It started slow, gradual. He tested my boundaries to see how far he could push me. I pushed back at first, then after years of pushing, I grew tired, and stopped pushing. I let him push me further and further away from who I was meant to be. 

Now.......I am finding who I was meant to be. It's stressful and anxiety ridden at times. I worry about the kids, money, what will happen in a few hours when we go before the judge and dissolve this union. But, I have no regrets. I do not want to be with this man. I would spend the rest of my life alone, broke and safe to be free of his oppression, control, manipulation, and abuse. 

You may ask why I share this. I'm hoping....praying that some men/women who are controlling and oppressive and pushing their families away, will read this and wake up and change........before it's too late for their family. 

Yes I walked away from my marriage, but only because that relationship was destroying me_".


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

And now the rebuttal.

When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. We talked about making love every day. We promised never to use sex as a tool. We talked how we would communicate our needs, wants and desires. After the long wait the day of our wedding arrives. The great anticipation of the blessed event. Nice wedding wonderful time. The honeymoon was no where near what I expected, but that's ok I was with the one I loved.

Sex is off the charts. To love and affection is nearly overwhelming. Then week 2 comes around still some sex, but less touching and words of affirmation. Before long little comments here and there about some small tasks that I need to complete so that we will have time for sex later. Oh ok cool. Months turns into years, and before you know it your jumping thru hoops just so that you can make love once a week, and don't bother doing any great grandiose tasks, because your still going to get missionary with the lights off and the top still on. 

You are stressing about the economy and how it affects your job. You have a wife and kids that you are responsible for. Back in your youth you would have decked the guy who talked to you like your boss does. Everyday your fed $#it, and you have to take it or else you lose your job. You have a family to take care of, and you lose your job, well there goes your once a week nookie allowance.

So between your wife and your job slowly taking your manhood away, there is no one to turn to. Your wife will lose what little respect she has for you if you try to tell her, and I can guarantee your boss could care less. Men are not like women. We cannot cry on each others shoulders. We just have to suck it up buttercup.

After a while I begin to shutdown. I get up go to work. I come home zone out in front of the TV. I eat supper watch some more of the idiot box til bedtime. I would ask you what's bothering you, but all you will say is the same thing "nothing" so we rock along like this for some more years, until the dreaded ILYBNILWY anymore day.

Sorry I just wrote this on the fly. There is more I would like to say, but I had better leave well enough alone for now.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

That's why the best advice to give newlywed couples is to never stop dating your spouse. In both cases, this is probably what happened.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Mid life crisis is a real bite. She's soaring, hope she touches the sun.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> That's why the best advice to give newlywed couples is to never stop dating your spouse. In both cases, this is probably what happened.


That and lack of open honest communication without fear of retribution. We never learned how to properly discuss our issues.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Yep. Communication is EVERYTHING. 

I saw myself in that story. I tried everything to be heard. I "invited" him to go to counseling with me (he declined, I went alone). I had people say after doing everything with 5 kids "I didn't know you were married!" I WANTED more sex... toward the end, I remember thinking "at least we have great sex so there MUST be something here". Turns out that is not true, and it turns out that the sex could be soooooooooooo much better! LOL I had NO idea! 

I couldn't figure out HOW to leave, knowing that I couldn't count on him to pitch in. I was right. One day he just left. Didn't say a word... just quit coming home. Snuck in to get some of his things. It was really weird. I wanted so much to TALK about it. All of it. 

It was the best thing that happened to me in years. I was pissed at first. And disappointed...cuz I KNEW that we just needed some real communication!!! We've talked a few times since then, but never anything REAL or constructive. 

I figured out how to make it financially. And I'd been on my own as a parent and as a person for years...so that wasn't an issue. 

I am now married to a man who TALKS! And talks, and talks....lol, he's a talker. He might even irritate others because he talks so much. But it is music to my ears. We are honest and open. We inquire about each other's well being, physically, emotionally and mentally. We ENJOY each other. We both were denied communication in our previous 23 year marriages.... so we appreciate so much that we have this awesome communication. It really is EVERYTHING.....that and freakin awesome sex ALL THE TIME!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

SunnyT said:


> I am now married to a man who TALKS! And talks, and talks....lol, he's a talker. He might even irritate others because he talks so much. But it is music to my ears. We are honest and open. We inquire about each other's well being, physically, emotionally and mentally. We ENJOY each other. We both were denied communication in our previous 23 year marriages.... so we appreciate so much that we have this awesome communication. It really is EVERYTHING.....that and *freakin awesome sex ALL THE TIME!*


That must distract from posting here. >


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

SunnyT said:


> Yep. Communication is EVERYTHING.
> 
> I saw myself in that story. I tried everything to be heard. I "invited" him to go to counseling with me (he declined, I went alone). I had people say after doing everything with 5 kids "I didn't know you were married!" I WANTED more sex... toward the end, I remember thinking "at least we have great sex so there MUST be something here". Turns out that is not true, and it turns out that the sex could be soooooooooooo much better! LOL I had NO idea!
> 
> ...


I am so happy for the both of you, and jealous dammit.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

To be honest, I don't know if my wife was actually a WAW. I wonder if it was just simply the transition most marriages go thru. We married when she was 18 and I was 20. Things went south when she turned 40. I have talked to a lot of older men at the time and most of them described pretty much the same thing happening to them. So was it perimenopause or WAW? one thing for sure, I really hate menopause.We get along great. We are united in spoiling our grandchildren, but I miss the passion, the feeling of being desired and wanted. Oh well Boohoo.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, there is something about turning 40. Of course I can't speak for all women.... you kind of "find yourself", maybe find your voice, figure out what the future is realistically going to look like, etc... If you are mentally healthy then it's not a big deal. It's an awesome enlightenment, or positive growth. 

Otoh...if the marriage kind of sucks, then its up for consideration. And maybe the answer is "this is it. This is what we have. Maybe some day this marriage will FEEL better, but for the near future THIS is it." Not very exciting. Not overflowing with love and passion. Doable. 

So, maybe not really a WAW situation, more of a resigned mode. That's where I was. Resigned to no passion, no closeness/loving-ness, once a week predictable sex, ...... could be better, could be worse.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Interesting perspectives. Of course I wonder how much she really listened to him thru the years. You know us men are expected to be stoic and never cry. Did she ever do anything to let him be who he was with her, or did she just shut him down every time for being too sensitive or whining all the time. 
I know in my marriage, I tried to talk to my wife. She was the one who couldn't listen. I said I felt like I wasn't respected and she acted like she didn't want to be a partner. All she heard was that I wanted sex, even when the word was never mentioned and was never even considered on my part.
She always considered herself the great communicator, but in the end her inability to hear was mostly to blame for the end of my marriage. Or maybe she did hear but didn't care?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Interesting perspectives. Of course I wonder how much she really listened to him thru the years. You know us men are expected to be stoic and never cry. Did she ever do anything to let him be who he was with her, or did she just shut him down every time for being too sensitive or whining all the time.
> I know in my marriage, I tried to talk to my wife. She was the one who couldn't listen. I said I felt like I wasn't respected and she acted like she didn't want to be a partner. All she heard was that I wanted sex, even when the word was never mentioned and was never even considered on my part.
> She always considered herself the great communicator, but in the end her inability to hear was mostly to blame for the end of my marriage. Or maybe she did hear but didn't care?


In our bad old days, both of us were talking and neither listening.


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## MarriageInJeopardy (Jan 14, 2016)

SunnyT said:


> Yep. Communication is EVERYTHING.
> 
> I saw myself in that story. I tried everything to be heard. I "invited" him to go to counseling with me (he declined, I went alone). I had people say after doing everything with 5 kids "I didn't know you were married!" I WANTED more sex... toward the end, I remember thinking "at least we have great sex so there MUST be something here". Turns out that is not true, and it turns out that the sex could be soooooooooooo much better! LOL I had NO idea!
> 
> ...


I am green with envy. I am so happy to hear you've found happiness. A++


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## MarriageInJeopardy (Jan 14, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Interesting perspectives. Of course I wonder how much she really listened to him thru the years. You know us men are expected to be stoic and never cry. Did she ever do anything to let him be who he was with her, or did she just shut him down every time for being too sensitive or whining all the time.
> I know in my marriage, I tried to talk to my wife. She was the one who couldn't listen. I said I felt like I wasn't respected and she acted like she didn't want to be a partner. All she heard was that I wanted sex, even when the word was never mentioned and was never even considered on my part.
> She always considered herself the great communicator, but in the end her inability to hear was mostly to blame for the end of my marriage. Or maybe she did hear but didn't care?


Wow. It's like a mirror. Nearly the same on my end. At least I have comfort it's not just me experiencing this type of behavior.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Interesting perspectives. Of course I wonder how much she really listened to him thru the years. You know us men are expected to be stoic and never cry. Did she ever do anything to let him be who he was with her, or did she just shut him down every time for being too sensitive or whining all the time.
> I know in my marriage, I tried to talk to my wife. She was the one who couldn't listen. I said I felt like I wasn't respected and she acted like she didn't want to be a partner. All she heard was that I wanted sex, even when the word was never mentioned and was never even considered on my part.
> She always considered herself the great communicator, but in the end her inability to hear was mostly to blame for the end of my marriage. Or maybe she did hear but didn't care?


Yep. Inhave never been able to be who I truly am. Except when I'm at my bay house alone.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Please. No more. These ALWAYS turn into gender wars. And I didn't read past "OK, my rebuttal" at the top of the second post. 

No more. Please, moderator, block this thread.

And did you all REALLY need to read that to understand what a walk-away-wife is?


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## AaliyahRT (Mar 19, 2016)

That sounds like my story but you are a lot worse. he knows what he does is killing me but he does it anyway. He know what is make me happy but he stopped doing. He doesn't want to touch me and when I begged I heard "when I look at you, I see nothing I wanted" sighh

I'm glad you finally made the right decision for yourself. Life is too short to be miserable. I'll find my way one day I hope.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

AaliyahRT said:


> That sounds like my story but you are a lot worse. *he knows what he does is killing me but he does it anyway.* He know what is make me happy but he stopped doing. He doesn't want to touch me and when I begged I heard "when I look at you, I see nothing I wanted" sighh
> 
> I'm glad you finally made the right decision for yourself. Life is too short to be miserable. I'll find my way one day I hope.


Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. I am going to put up $10,000 of my own money. I will give it to ART. With that $10,000 she will get the cheapest FULLY OFFICIAL divorce papers she can and a hotel room for a week. She keeps the rest for her troubles.

She takes those divorce papers and puts them on the fridge with Bubba's "Gas grass or ass, nobody rides for free" magnet and goes dark for a week. 

I then take bets: By the end of that week, this POS that nobody understands why she wants to keep anyhow will...

1 - Will be a crying whimpering baby blowing up her phone promising the world to her. Promising he will change if she will give him ONE MORE CHANCE. Odds 2-500 (I'm not a gambler. this is supposed to be minimal payout. Nobody takes this bet).

2 - Anything else. Odds 50:1

You see, people put HUGE bets on number two. When number ONE happens I retire to Amsterdam. 

Anyone in?

(Note to administrators, this is all an example. I am not putting up any money for anyone).


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Number one is what almost always happens when a WAW gives the ILYBINILWY speech. But EVERYBODY will bet on number 2.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Ugh, I thought my wife was either cheating on me or becoming a WAW. Never found any real proof that she was cheating, but my gut won't let it go, I'm sure many of the red flags are the same for WS and WAW. 

Will I be considered a WAH?


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## MarriageInJeopardy (Jan 14, 2016)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Number one is what almost always happens when a WAW gives the ILYBINILWY speech. But EVERYBODY will bet on number 2.


Would had said one.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

MarriageInJeopardy said:


> Would had said one.


I am the only one. And I make millions.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Slow Hand said:


> Will I be considered a WAH?


No such thing.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Slow Hand said:


> I'm sure many of the red flags are the same for WS and WAW.


They are. Which is why the "SHE'S CHEATING" crowd always goes that way. Here's the difference.

When it's a WAW, there is rarely even circumstantial evidence of another man. Oh, the "she's cheating" crowd will spin anything to get your head...spinning. But there is usually a lack of hard evidence.

They ALL have WAW symptoms. The wife usually walks before she cheats. DUH! The cheaters have late hours/timeline problems/frequent GNO's/boundary issues. The WAW's are just distant. No sex. No intimacy. And the kicker...

No kissing. I love to kiss. So does my wife. She just doesn't like kissing me. I suspect it disgusts her.

THAT's a WAW.

And I'd bet my DOG's life that she's not "cheating".


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> They are. Which is why the "SHE'S CHEATING" crowd always goes that way. Here's the difference.
> 
> When it's a WAW, there is rarely even circumstantial evidence of another man. Oh, the "she's cheating" crowd will spin anything to get your head...spinning. But there is usually a lack of hard evidence.
> 
> ...


It seems on TAM as in life, most people can only see things thru their own eyes and from their own perspective. Therefore every women that leaves only does so because she is cheating. However, I do agree with you that often times it isn't a matter of cheating as much as it is that some women just decide to walk away. For whatever reason (and they are important to her, even though the BS may never accept them as such) some women just decide that they made a mistake, the marriage isn't right, they don't want to try anymore etc etc.


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## lateralus (Feb 14, 2016)

Ynot said:


> It seems on TAM as in life, most people can only see things thru their own eyes and from their own perspective. Therefore every women that leaves only does so because she is cheating. However, I do agree with you that often times it isn't a matter of cheating as much as it is that some women just decide to walk away. For whatever reason (and they are important to her, even though the BS may never accept them as such) some women just decide that they made a mistake, the marriage isn't right, they don't want to try anymore etc etc.


Good post. Some WAWs are cheating, and some aren't. Of those that aren't, some of them have valid reasons, and some don't. If I had to guess, I'd say the sampling is pretty evenly distributed.

I think that in the case of WAWs, men have to ensure they have the full picture (or as much of it as they can get) in order to ensure they don't get screwed in divorce. It's a defensive measure, and I think it's a pragmatic one for us to take.

But that doesn't always guarantee we will find the worst case scenario.

In my case, I did. My XW was a cheating WAW (as was my mother). But I've encountered other women where that wasn't the case.

More recent experiences have allowed me to see the other side a bit more clearly. Which has been a bitter pill to swallow, to be sure. But I now have a clearer picture of how it can happen.

The world is more grey now, and less black and white.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> No such thing.


Of course there is. I have known several in real life.

Marriage, and relationships, are complex and hard. Anyone who claims to have a single formula that describes it all is selling snake oil.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Thound said:


> To be honest, I don't know if my wife was actually a WAW. I wonder if it was just simply the transition most marriages go thru. We married when she was 18 and I was 20. Things went south when she turned 40. I have talked to a lot of older men at the time and most of them described pretty much the same thing happening to them. So was it perimenopause or WAW? one thing for sure, I really hate menopause.We get along great. We are united in spoiling our grandchildren, but I miss the passion, the feeling of being desired and wanted. Oh well Boohoo.


That is her choice........to not take HRT. That would prove to me that I do not rank on her priority list. I could not tolerate that as a/o physical I do not feel loved....that is my connection. Things would go down hill quickly.

My wife has full hysterectomy at 43? And started HRT. It's like I have a new wife and things are 100% better. No pain, bloating, mood swings.....its ALL GOOD!!!!


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Wazza said:


> Of course there is. I have known several in real life.


Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. TO say that men and women leave relationships for the same reason shows a serious lack of understanding of the differences between the two.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. TO say that men and women leave relationships for the same reason shows a serious lack of understanding of the differences between the two.


Just as big a mistake as one-size-fits-all within the gender itself.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

lateralus said:


> ...men have to ensure they have the full picture (or as much of it as they can get) in order to ensure they don't get screwed in divorce.


Who said anything about divorce? My wife and I will be "celebrating" our 25th anniversary soon. About 15 years after the point I figured she "walked".

Divorce has NOTHING to do with it. A wife acting like she's unhappy has NOTHING to do with it. A majority of men don't even KNOW their wives are gone (see below).



aine said:


> Now he's fully awake & out of his fog. He's scared. He had no idea how bad she hurt. He thought things were good. He's been living in a separate reality from her.


Probably the most important paragraph ever posted on this forum. And 90% of the members here will scream "SHE'S CHEATING!!!"


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Thound said:


> And now the rebuttal.
> 
> When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. We talked about making love every day. We promised never to use sex as a tool. We talked how we would communicate our needs, wants and desires. After the long wait the day of our wedding arrives. The great anticipation of the blessed event. Nice wedding wonderful time. The honeymoon was no where near what I expected, but that's ok I was with the one I loved.
> 
> ...


I hear you absolutely! However, you are making an assumption that the emotional make up of a man and a woman are the same, they are not. A woman is more emotional and tends to live her life based on feelings moreso than a man, a man bases his life on hard facts. Therefore a woman can be very deeply hurt by the apparent callousness of the husband. 

read Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> No such thing.



You Sure ?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Sammy64 said:


> You Sure ?


Do you really think men and women leave a marriage for the same reasons? Two polar opposites share the same values in a marriage? Then why are they leaving each other most of the time?

Yes, I'm VERY sure. Of course men leave marriages. Just call it something else.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Please. No more. These ALWAYS turn into gender wars. And I didn't read past "OK, my rebuttal" at the top of the second post.
> 
> No more. Please, moderator, block this thread.
> 
> And did you all REALLY need to read that to understand what a walk-away-wife is?


Sorry that this has upset you but I think many men don't have a clue and live in an alternate universe, I really do!


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Do you really think men and women leave a marriage for the same reasons? Two polar opposites share the same values in a marriage? Then why are they leaving each other most of the time?
> 
> Yes, I'm VERY sure. Of course men leave marriages. Just call it something else.



just out of curiosity, What would you call it..


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> *That is her choice........to not take HRT. That would prove to me that I do not rank on her priority list. *I could not tolerate that as a/o physical I do not feel loved....that is my connection. Things would go down hill quickly.
> 
> My wife has full hysterectomy at 43? And started HRT. It's like I have a new wife and things are 100% better. No pain, bloating, mood swings.....its ALL GOOD!!!!


You just contradicted yourself, her choice but with a threat! Did you know that there are proven side effects of HRT based on scientific research. Would that change your opinion, it sounds to me that sex for you is higher on your priority list than your wife's health, think about it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

aine said:


> I hear you absolutely! However, you are making an assumption that the emotional make up of a man and a woman are the same, they are not. A woman is more emotional and tends to live her life based on feelings moreso than a man, a man bases his life on hard facts. Therefore a woman can be very deeply hurt by the apparent callousness of the husband.
> 
> read Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


As yall may know Im a lousy communicator. My real point is that both people have to work on a marriage and communication is critical, and ACTING on that communication is even more important. WAW does not happen in a vacuum. There are dynamics involved and both parties affect those dynamics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

aine said:


> You just contradicted yourself, her choice ybut with a threat! Did you know that there are proven side effects of HRT based on scientific research. Would that change your opinion, it sounds to me that sex for you is higher on your priority list than your wife's health, think about it.


That is why I never pushed hormone therapy. I would rather live the rest of my life alone than know that I caused her death thru HRT. Now I know it is only a possibility, but I want no part of being the one that is pushing it or encouraging it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Thound said:


> We just have to suck it up buttercup.


Bravo sir...... BRAVO! :yay:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I know not as sexy, but seems like these topics should eventually move more towards "Walk Away Spouses" and not just "Walk Away Wives" ...


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

aine said:


> Sorry that this has upset you but I think many men don't have a clue and live in an alternate universe, I really do!


 There was a cartoon here around here the other day that depicts the most tangible perception of the American modern day man in regards to marriage, and relationships as a whole;

Guy meet's girl. Girl dig's guy. Is open and agreeable to marriage.. Then one or both want's kids. Then comes the need for more "Family" things... Better living arrangements. Bigger better house, car, furniture, lifestyle etc.... One parent works full time, other is SAHP.... Or both work, usually opposite shifts... Time spent apart is not time spent together...

Guy does housework... Man type housework.
Guy lessens his own fun things to do ensure he meets his wife's and family's needs.
Guy get's pushed to make more money... Which requires more time away (Apart).
Guy tries to spend time with his child(ren)... 
Guy is effing tired..
Gal feel's lonely...
New (or old) individual comes into the scene, by chance or choice.
Que rationalization.
Add in just a dash of Novelty.
Mix in compartmentalization.
Bake in secret for 2 to 6 months.
Take out of oven.

Presto you just made a WAW........

I can't explain how to make a mid-life crisis man.... I own my life's choices and am a victim of my own tolerances of happiness or misery. I am not going to use a label to admonish my own actions, or lack thereof.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

aine said:


> Sorry that this has upset you but I think many men don't have a clue and live in an alternate universe, I really do!


Women too. I was amazed, in another thread, to see a couple of veteran women refuse to see that me and other men had no clue it was happening. Believe it or not, I would have categorized my marriage as in the top 10% of happiness in the US right up until the very moment I realized she had hated me for years.

Women need to understand that the men TRULY don't know it's going on. If you're saying "I've told him until I'm blue in the face and he refuses to listen", YOU have a problem too. He's listening, he just doesn't HEAR you, hear you.

I new every little thing that pushed her away. I knew I was doing it. I knew she didn't like it. I did it anyhow. And I was STILL crushed when I figured out she was gone. 

THAT needs to be fixed. And we need to stop trying to determine who's "fault" it is. Doesn't matter. The victims are "everybody involved".


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

aine said:


> I hear you absolutely! However, you are making an assumption that the emotional make up of a man and a woman are the same, they are not. *A woman is more emotional and tends to live her life based on feelings moreso than a man, a man bases his life on hard facts. *Therefore a woman can be very deeply hurt by the apparent callousness of the husband.
> 
> read Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


I call BS on the bolded section of this post. It is one of those modern day assumptions of life that always seems to go unchallenged and just gets accepted as a backdrop to the conversation. The reality is that most men are every bit, if not more emotional than women and they very much live their lives based on feelings rather than on cold hard facts. Because otherwise, these same men would not be devastated when their wife leaves them. Men, are bonded to their wives and families and make as many sacrifices as women do. They give up their friends and interests and hobbies in order to provide for their families as much or moreso than women do. The sacrifices men make are seldom if ever celebrated, much less even noted, in most discussions. In the mean time there are whole industries devoted to recognizing all of the sacrifices women make whether they be SAHM or career women. It is assumptions like these that permit women to feel "unfulfilled" because the same assumption that don't recognize the sacrifices of men while glorifying those of women, create the environment of women expecting everything since after all, men are just emotionless creatures who only act on the basis of cold hard facts.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Please understand, that I am not arguing against the facts. I am arguing against the assumptions the permeate our society. Women have been empowered by the realities of modern life and I am not opposed to that. What I am opposed to are those same women falling back on antiquated assumptions about relationships, while taking advantage of modern realities.
Men are being abused, in large part because they too, accept the old assumptions while ignoring the same modern realities that women take full advantage of. 
Women need to stop imagining that men are unemotional and men need to stop imagining that women still need them or depend upon them.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ynot said:


> Please understand, that I am not arguing against the facts. I am arguing against the assumptions the permeate our society. Women have been empowered by the realities of modern life and I am not opposed to that. What I am opposed to are those same women falling back on antiquated assumptions about relationships, while taking advantage of modern realities.
> Men are being abused, in large part because they too, accept the old assumptions while ignoring the same modern realities that women take full advantage of.
> Women need to stop imagining that men are unemotional and men need to stop imagining that women still need them or depend upon them.



I am not saying men have no emotions at all, some men are much more expressive than women. However, you cannot say that men and women are the same, they are not. Physiologically when a male is in the womb he is flooded with testosterone (when born he has the level of testosterone of a 25 year old male but it reduces till be reaches puberty). Little girls are flooded in the womb with oestrogen. 
The testosterone changes the way the brain develops, the connections between the left and right side of the brain are pared down in some instances and enhanced in others. That is why males are good with logic, reason, facts etc. Men argue based on facts, women argue based on emotions and feelings. 
This has a huge impact on how the male and female interact, when they argue it is often at cross purposes, she is looking for validation, he is thinking why is she being so irrational, her thinking is not based on reason. 

I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I know not as sexy, but seems like these topics should eventually move more towards "Walk Away Spouses" and not just "Walk Away Wives" ...


I tend to agree, imagine a man who doesn't have his sexual needs met on a regular basis, and is constantly rejected, he is a candidate for a WAS


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


And sometimes just plain old bad behavior.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

aine said:


> I am not saying men have no emotions at all, some men are much more expressive than women. However, you cannot say that men and women are the same, they are not. Physiologically when a male is in the womb he is flooded with testosterone (when born he has the level of testosterone of a 25 year old male but it reduces till be reaches puberty). Little girls are flooded in the womb with oestrogen.
> The testosterone changes the way the brain develops, the connections between the left and right side of the brain are pared down in some instances and enhanced in others. That is why males are good with logic, reason, facts etc. Men argue based on facts, women argue based on emotions and feelings.
> This has a huge impact on how the male and female interact, when they argue it is often at cross purposes, she is looking for validation, he is thinking why is she being so irrational, her thinking is not based on reason.
> 
> I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


I never said men and women were the same. What I said was that men are every bit, if not more emotional than women are. Yes, they express it different ways but the reality is that were men not more emotional we wouldn't have so many devastated men when their wife decides to walk away. Most men are completely dedicated and and emotionally invested in their wives, children and family. They don't walk away because they feel unfulfilled. They don't operate according to cold hard facts because if they did the number of men filing for divorce wouldn't be so few relative to women. I am simply not going to accept assumptions that are not true any longer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IIJokerII said:


> There was a cartoon here around here the other day that depicts the most tangible perception of the American modern day man in regards to marriage, and relationships as a whole;
> 
> Guy meet's girl. Girl dig's guy. Is open and agreeable to marriage.. Then one or both want's kids. Then comes the need for more "Family" things... Better living arrangements. Bigger better house, car, furniture, lifestyle etc.... One parent works full time, other is SAHP.... Or both work, usually opposite shifts... Time spent apart is not time spent together...
> 
> ...


Not all WAW situations include a woman cheating. My bet is that more do not cheat than do.

How do we make a WAH? About the same... have a marriage that is not meeting his needs, he's very likely to leave. That's how it works. There are women who also are clueless and do not listen to their husbands when the husbands keep telling the wives that there is a problem. Some people (men and women) are self centered and are only concerned with whether or not they are happy. If they are happy, then they view the relationship as meeting their needs.... and they see no need to meet their spouses needs.

Selfishness and self-centeredness is what leads to a walk away spouse most of the time... and it's often the left behind spouse who is the selfish/selfcentered one... at least with the definition of the WAW/H syndrome.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

We know that women file for divorce about 70% of the time. But that does not mean that women who file for divorce are all WAW’s; not by a long shot.

I know a lot of women who filed for divorce. Not one of them are what would be called WAW’s. In ever case, they filed because their husbands were cheating and/or were abusive. In many cases the husbands were already living with their affair partner so he had already left his wife and children. But the men were not going to file for divorce, they left that dirty detail up to their wives.

Why did the woman file? To end a very bad marriage for the reasons listed; and because they were left with the couple’s children. In some cases the women had made the mistake of being SAHM’s, so they needed to financial help while they got back on their feet.

If we look at the actual reason for the breakup of a marriage, my bet is that it would be pretty equally 50/50 where sometimes it’s the woman and sometimes it’s the man who caused the problem and actually chose to do some action (affair, abuse, etc) that ended the marriage. 

Looking at who filed for the divorce tells us nothing about what happened to end the marriage or which spouse was at fault.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ynot said:


> I never said men and women were the same. What I said was that men are every bit, if not more emotional than women are. Yes, they express it different ways but the reality is that were men not more emotional we wouldn't have so many devastated men when their wife decides to walk away. Most men are completely dedicated and and emotionally invested in their wives, children and family. They don't walk away because they feel unfulfilled. They don't operate according to cold hard facts because if they did the number of men filing for divorce wouldn't be so few relative to women. I am simply not going to accept assumptions that are not true any longer.


According to conventional TAM wisdom men don't file as much because divorce favors women. 

That would seem like a decision based on cold, hard fact. .... or at least what they perceive to be fact.

Or does men filing less imply that they're so much more dedicated to the marriage? 

That seems like a big leap to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. TO say that men and women leave relationships for the same reason shows a serious lack of understanding of the differences between the two.


why not respond to what I actually said? You said there is no such thing as WAH, I said I have known some. 

There might be some gender differences, driven by either biological or social factors, but underneath it, both sexes can stay in unhappy marriages for reasons such as kids, money or social expectations, and then one day hit the point where they can't do it any more. 

At a low point in my marriage I faced exactly that dilemma. Feel free to tell me I don't exist. :grin2:


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Ynot said:


> I never said men and women were the same. What I said was that men are every bit, if not more emotional than women are. Yes, they express it different ways but the reality is that were men not more emotional we wouldn't have so many devastated men when their wife decides to walk away. Most men are completely dedicated and and emotionally invested in their wives, children and family. They don't walk away because they feel unfulfilled. They don't operate according to cold hard facts because if they did the number of men filing for divorce wouldn't be so few relative to women. I am simply not going to accept assumptions that are not true any longer.


I'm finding what you and Aine are writing extremely interesting.

i think men do, eventually, walk away sometimes due to lack of fullfilment. You start out with dreams, they get swamped with the need to be the breadwinner and provide for your family. Then maybe duty takes prededence over love and connection in your marriage and you feel lonely. Then, one day, you ask "what about me?" Maybe you call that a midlife crisis, but it's a story I have heard often. And it doesn't look all that different to me from the original post in this thread.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> If they are happy, then they view the relationship as meeting their needs.... and they see no need to meet their spouses needs.
> 
> Selfishness and self-centeredness is what leads to a walk away spouse most of the time... and it's often the left behind spouse who is the selfish/selfcentered one... at least with the definition of the WAW/H syndrome.


Hi Elegirl, heard you had some health issues. Hope you are on the mend.

Sometimes it's really hard to find a middle ground both parties can live with, and if that occurs in a setting where both parties feel strongly, it can be a problem. So it's not always just self-centredness.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aine said:


> I am not saying men have no emotions at all, some men are much more expressive than women. However, you cannot say that men and women are the same, they are not. *Physiologically when a male is in the womb he is flooded with testosterone (when born he has the level of testosterone of a 25 year old male but it reduces till be reaches puberty). Little girls are flooded in the womb with oestrogen.
> The testosterone changes the way the brain develops, the connections between the left and right side of the brain are pared down in some instances and enhanced in others. That is why males are good with logic, reason, facts etc. Men argue based on facts, women argue based on emotions and feelings.
> This has a huge impact on how the male and female interact, when they argue it is often at cross purposes, she is looking for validation, he is thinking why is she being so irrational, her thinking is not based on reason. *
> 
> I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


Aine, do you have a reference for the bolded?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Hi Elegirl, heard you had some health issues. Hope you are on the mend..


Thanks, I'm home and on the mend.



Wazza said:


> Sometimes it's really hard to find a middle ground both parties can live with, and if that occurs in a setting where both parties feel strongly, it can be a problem. So it's not always just self-centredness.


My point was specifically about the WAW/H type situation. There is a definition for it ... that one spouse is happy in the marriage and the other is not. And the one who is happy ignores years of their unhappy spouse asking to work on the marriage together, etc.

Not all marriages that end in divorce are WAW/H situations. Most are probably of the type you are taking about where there is conflict and both are not happy with things but they cannot resolve them for whatever reason.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Wazza said:


> i think men do, eventually, walk away sometimes due to lack of fullfilment. You start out with dreams, they get swamped with the need to be the breadwinner and provide for your family. Then maybe duty takes prededence over love and connection in your marriage and you feel lonely. *Then, one day, you ask "what about me?"* Maybe you call that a midlife crisis, but it's a story I have heard often. And it doesn't look all that different to me from the original post in this thread.


What about you?

That's when you go to your wife and say "honey, I haven't been fulfilled for a couple of years so now I'm leaving you to pursue something else?" You were unhappy and asked for a divorce or went out to get some strange. She knew it was coming. Thngs have been pretty rough for a while. What does that have to do with a walk-away wife?

OK. I will admit "defeat" and never post about WAW's again if a woman can HONESTLY say she experienced something like this. If ONE woman can say that this particular dynamic even remotely played into their marriages I will shut up forever. 

"I can't believe what just happened. 

"I thought my marriage was perfect. I would have put it in the top 10% of happiness. 50% divorce rate? How can that POSSIBLY be? This **** is EASY. We are still so freakin' in love after being with each other almost TWENTY YEARS in total. Perfect? of course not. But close enough. I actually found my Prince Charming. He was almost perfect.

"But I made a mistake and tried for perfection. 

"It seemed like he was working with me for a while. Then it kind of seemed like he...wasn't. It was awesome again and then...not. I don't know how to explain it. I tried. I came to these forums. Everything was close, but not quite coming together. I pushed my husband for answers but they didn't make sense. 

"Then I pushed too hard. In an argument he blurted out 7 words that changed my life FOREVER. It doesn't matter what they were. They were particular to our situation. The end result is that all of those pieces finally fell together. Perfectly and immediately. And the wind was knocked out of me. It didn't make sense because the one piece I was missing seemed IMPOSSIBLE.

"He doesn't love me?

"Long story short, I put it at about 5 years into our marriage that it happened. He was FULLY checked out after our third was born. Probably before. I lived for 10 years or so thinking I had found Mr. Right. Only to realize the impossible: he not only hadn't loved me for some time, but probably didn't even like me that much. Was embarrassed by me. I'm sure sex with me disgusted him, in hindsight.

"All those years of idolizing him. Professing my love for him and him to me. Being goofy around him. It's all so humiliating now.

"We're still together. He didn't want me to know! He made a mistake and wanted to take it to his grave. I can almost guarantee that if he had ONE trip in a time machine it wouldn't be to go back and kill Hitler in 1922, but to just not have blurted out those words and have me live in blissfull ignorance again. 

"I'm staying. I'm not tearing up my family because I'm unhappy. But imagine what HE has lived with all of these years..."



Am I projecting my situation on everyone else? Darn tootin'. But I wouldn't be doing it if 6 years on these boards haven't convinced me that there are MILLIONS of husbands living in this situation RIGHT NOW and don't even know their wives are unhappy? 

Please don't run with this Walk-Away-"Spouse" thing. Men and women are different. They stay in a marriage for different reasons. They leave for different reasons, and handle both differently.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Wazza said:


> I'm finding what you and Aine are writing extremely interesting.
> 
> i think men do, eventually, walk away sometimes due to lack of fullfilment. You start out with dreams, they get swamped with the need to be the breadwinner and provide for your family. Then maybe duty takes prededence over love and connection in your marriage and you feel lonely. Then, one day, you ask "what about me?" Maybe you call that a midlife crisis, but it's a story I have heard often. And it doesn't look all that different to me from the original post in this thread.


And once again, I never said anything about men not walking away. What I have said and will repeat for the tenth time or so on this thread is that men are every bit if not more emotional than women are. I get sick of hearing about how men are not emotional and just think in cold hard facts. The reality is the opposite. But one can't even question the assumption without being confronted on all sides.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> According to conventional TAM wisdom *men don't file as much because divorce favors women.
> *
> That would seem like a decision based on cold, hard fact. .... or at least what they perceive to be fact.
> 
> ...


Talk about a huge leap! So you get a self selected sample of some pretty devastated men, many of whom were blindsided by divorce, lost custody of their kids, and faced financial ruin and then apply that to the population in general? Yeah that isn't a leap of logic is it?

I never said men were more dedicated than women, I said that men WERE dedicated to their marriages and that the assumption that men are not emotional and live by cold hard facts is a lie. Men, like women have emotions. But like I said, one is barely able to question the assumption before the long knives come out.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Talk about a huge leap! So you get a self selected sample of some pretty devastated men, many of whom were blindsided by divorce, lost custody of their kids, and faced financial ruin and then apply that to the population in general? Yeah that isn't a leap of logic is it?
> 
> I never said men were more dedicated than women, I said that men WERE dedicated to their marriages and that the assumption that men are not emotional and live by cold hard facts is a lie. Men, like women have emotions. But like I said, one is barely able to question the assumption before the long knives come out.



You've got your back up way too much to have a discussion, which is what my comment was for.

Take a deep breath. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

aine said:


> I am not saying men have no emotions at all, some men are much more expressive than women. However, you cannot say that men and women are the same, they are not. Physiologically when a male is in the womb he is flooded with testosterone (when born he has the level of testosterone of a 25 year old male but it reduces till be reaches puberty). Little girls are flooded in the womb with oestrogen.
> The testosterone changes the way the brain develops, the connections between the left and right side of the brain are pared down in some instances and enhanced in others. That is why males are good with logic, reason, facts etc. *Men argue based on facts, women argue based on emotions and feelings. *
> This has a huge impact on how the male and female interact, when they argue it is often at cross purposes, she is looking for validation, he is thinking why is she being so irrational, her thinking is not based on reason.
> 
> I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


Just speaking for myself and my wife, the bolded definitely outlines us. That is in part why it drives me nuts when I hear some women state the argument "Well, he should just know" or "I shouldn't have to tell him". Dropping subtle hints or expecting your SO to be a mind reader is not an effective tool of communication, especially when it gets used as a source of resentment.

However, at the of the day it comes down to knowing your SOs communication style, and finding a way to meet somewhere in the middle. My W and I have talked about this before, I try my best to be more aware of things from her POV, and if she needs something she needs to be more direct with me. There needs to be some give and take, can't be all my way or all her way.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't buy into the his needs her needs jargon. I think people who depend on their spouses to
continually supply them with happiness are marriages doomed for failure. 

The rest just sells books and gives counselors something to talk about.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I new every little thing that pushed her away. I knew I was doing it. I knew she didn't like it. I did it anyhow. And I was STILL crushed when I figured out she was gone.


Wait a second. You *knew* you were pushing her away. You *knew* she didn't like how you were behaving, and you kept doing it anyway?

And yet you still claim you thought everything was *perfect* and we're totally shocked when she'd had enough?

I think a little more cold, hard fact reasoning would make it abundantly clear exactly what went down AND that the reality is that probably most men as well as women would eventually tire of living like this.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I've been struggling with this concept and why it gets its own name and classification so I did a bit of digging and it all leads back to a single therapist Michele Weiner-Davis who about 12 years coined the term and turned it into a social movement. The crux of all of this is that before 'this' it was simply not common for women to bail on their own. At least that's the theory Michele Weiner-Davis put forth. I think she's wrong and she knows she's wrong but since her clientele is suburban middle class and upper middle class educated couples with all sorts of social and financial encumbrances so in her narrow view she might be correct. On the other hand it does sort of smack of a martyr complex. "I didn't cheat on you I just left, I'm the victim here!" Anyway, just my aside on this. I don't think it's unique or special it's just one person packing their sh^it and leaving.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Not all WAW situations include a woman cheating. My bet is that more do not cheat than do.
> 
> How do we make a WAH? About the same... have a marriage that is not meeting his needs, he's very likely to leave. That's how it works. There are women who also are clueless and do not listen to their husbands when the husbands keep telling the wives that there is a problem. Some people (men and women) are self centered and are only concerned with whether or not they are happy. If they are happy, then they view the relationship as meeting their needs.... and they see no need to meet their spouses needs.
> 
> Selfishness and self-centeredness is what leads to a walk away spouse most of the time... and it's often the left behind spouse who is the selfish/selfcentered one... at least with the definition of the WAW/H syndrome.


 Without question I agree with you, it is the common acceptance of this so called clinical term "WAW" ( WAH is just not ever gonna be catchy). I agree on the self centered aspect and believe that people severely need to reinvest just a little time in their relationships and the results would be surprising. 

I also do agree that there are indeed a significant amount of women, and men, who do leave a undesirable situation based on their own personal accord rather than pursing a different relationship partner. Women file the big D more often because it is universally known in the US that women make out far better than men in court... And with most men pushed towards working more to obtain more for their so called needs, then learn in turn this push for more materials and money was they very wedge that caused distance in the marriage.. The man becomes the victim of circumstance that his wife pushed him into, for the greater good so to speak. 

Then his reward is an unhappy wife, who get's half, or more, usually.. Before the rebuttal comes in from the forum members about fair, equal and joints profits from the union should be shared equally by both parties involved, please make sure that the universal healthcare system is in place by the time I leave work for the day, cause there ain't no difference between the 2... Just the amount of participants.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Wait a second. You *knew* you were pushing her away. You *knew* she didn't like how you were behaving, and you kept doing it anyway?
> 
> And yet you still claim you thought everything was *perfect* and we're totally shocked when she'd had enough?
> 
> I think a little more cold, hard fact reasoning would make it abundantly clear exactly what went down AND that the reality is that probably most men as well as women would eventually tire of living like this.


It is simply called 'taking the SO for granted' it happens all the time! Until the SO decides they have had enough.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ButtPunch said:


> I don't buy into the his needs her needs jargon. I think people who depend on their spouses to
> continually supply them with happiness are marriages doomed for failure.
> 
> The rest just sells books and gives counselors something to talk about.


So you don't subscribe to the view that men and women are different and need to see these differences in a longterm relationship otherwise it will have major problems? What do you buy into?


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

aine said:


> So you don't subscribe to the view that men and women are different and need to see these differences in a longterm relationship otherwise it will have major problems? What do you buy into?


No, I didn't say that. Of course I believe women and men are different. Heck, People are different all the way around regardless of gender. 

I believe people are equipped with a "baseline happiness" and some people are more content than others. FOO issues help shape this as well as childhood abuse or sexual trauma. 

I think good partners are able to be happy when their needs aren't being met. They are understanding if "LIFE" gets in the way. A new lawyer has to work 70 hours a week to get established at his new firm. A very common practice of long hours for newbies in the engineering and legal world. The spouse can either 1) Be understanding and be responsible for their own happiness or 2) Play the victim and say spouse has no time for me....im unhappy....boohooo and fill up with resentment.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Thanks, I'm home and on the mend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Specifically the point the article stated. Gender for the scenario can be reversed...this is not gender specific.

The saying: A husband and wife should function like two wings on the same bird; they must work together or the marriage will never get off the ground.

When one spouse ignores the other and does not make an effort to hear the other, and it continues, there comes a time when that spouse just eventually gives up trying any more.


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## lateralus (Feb 14, 2016)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Who said anything about divorce? My wife and I will be "celebrating" our 25th anniversary soon. About 15 years after the point I figured she "walked".
> 
> Divorce has NOTHING to do with it. A wife acting like she's unhappy has NOTHING to do with it. A majority of men don't even KNOW their wives are gone (see below).


Relax. I get it; fifteen years later and you're still vehement about it. I'm four years out, and over it.

My personal experience included divorce. Many other men also have the same experience. Just because yours hasn't included divorce doesn't invalidate your experience, but it also doesn't invalidate those who did.

And no, I didn't know my ex wife was that far gone either. But recent experiences have brought how that can happen to light. Doesn't mean I deserved to be cheated on or to have my ex wife take my daughter away. All it means is that I have a _greater understanding of the process involved,_ regardless of whether or not I fully agree with it.

Understanding doesn't have to equal agreement.

And seriously, chill the **** out.



always_alone said:


> Wait a second. You *knew* you were pushing her away. You *knew* she didn't like how you were behaving, and you kept doing it anyway?
> 
> And yet you still claim you thought everything was *perfect* and we're totally shocked when she'd had enough?
> 
> I think a little more cold, hard fact reasoning would make it abundantly clear exactly what went down AND that *the reality is that probably most men as well as women would eventually tire of living like this.*


And there we have it. That's the kernel of truth behind it all. My ex wife grew tired of living with me. I can rail and ***** at it all day long, but it doesn't change that fact. She had some legitimate complaints, whereas others were absolute bs. In the end, it doesn't matter. I'm far better off with her gone, and my future is bright.

Because I too grew tired of living like that.


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## Najahlynn (Jan 1, 2016)

What are some resources I can share with my brother who is about to WAH? His wife had no idea why he is filing and he may go from the frying pan to the fire because it's all her fault and he is the victim.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Thound said:


> That and lack of open honest communication without fear of retribution. We never learned how to properly discuss our issues.


Exactly. And true in both stories.

And yet when people come here with their stories we often do not probe enough to find out what is really happening. Your wife left? She must have an OM. Yes, they are having sex, and yes, she's doing things with him that she'd never do with you.
She's evil. Divorce her now.

Same sort of thing could be written about Thound's story as well.

And yes, it is often so very hard to get answers from the original poster. And of course it is rare for the OP to trumpet their bad sides. They might not even realize that they have bad sides. All we have to go on is what the OP says.

There are a few exceptions. Sometimes (rarely) we get both sides. The saga of EI and B1 comes to mind as the quintessential example.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Thound said:


> As yall may know Im a lousy communicator. My real point is that both people have to work on a marriage and communication is critical, and ACTING on that communication is even more important. WAW does not happen in a vacuum. There are dynamics involved and both parties affect those dynamics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But it isn't just talking. That's a shorthand. Communication means that there is not only talking, but listening as well. And the third thing: understanding.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

IIJokerII said:


> There was a cartoon here around here the other day that depicts the most tangible perception of the American modern day man in regards to marriage, and relationships as a whole;
> 
> Guy meet's girl. Girl dig's guy. Is open and agreeable to marriage.. Then one or both want's kids. Then comes the need for more "Family" things... Better living arrangements. Bigger better house, car, furniture, lifestyle etc.... One parent works full time, other is SAHP.... Or both work, usually opposite shifts... Time spent apart is not time spent together...
> 
> ...


No, that is NOT a WAW. That's the start of an affair. But I do think that some affairs have WAW aspects. Others don't. But that's a whole other conversation.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jld said:


> Aine, do you have a reference for the bolded?


This is not taken from a source per se. I think the info on testosterone for boys and girls is general in The Female Brain a book by Dr Louann Brizendine ( spelling ?) and other sources on physiology. Ways of communicating are from a series on Love and Respect by Dr Eggerich. 

Sorry took so long to reply, missed this question


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Finally, playing the devils advocate a bit on this thread. Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

aine said:


> Finally, playing the devils advocate a bit on this thread. Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


Maybe generally, but certainly not always. I think that's a stereo type like "All men are cheaters" 

I was the one who was checking the temperature and monitoring our marriage. My XWW was constantly reassuring me that our marriage was great and our love strong, right up to the point where she started screwing posOM. She never communicated or admitted any issues to me. I was the one who was noticing changes in her and was trying to start and keep a dialogue going.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

aine said:


> Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


No. What I would say is that men and women approach that stuff differently, and possibly are focussed on different aspects of the marriage.

One example (and as a man I am going to find it hard to express this) I think men and women talk about problems differently. Men are more wired to talk about solutions to problems where women need to express the problem, and find talking about things helpful without actually (from a male perspective) solving anything. So, if I approach my wife with a problem, she will assume the act of talking about it has helped, and usually take no action. Before I understood this, it just looked like talking about problems was useless because she never did anything about them, therefore she didn't care.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

aine said:


> Finally, playing the devils advocate a bit on this thread. Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


I agree with that statement. Women are the emotional caretakers and caretakers in general of a relationship/marriage. Women are the glue that hold the family unit together. They are the ones that see the issues, bring up those issues and want to discuss the issues/get them resolved. And H does not see a problem with ANYTHING! I am having the same problems in my marriage and they have been going on for YEARS. We just had two discussions in the past week. I asked him is he see the disconnect we have, emotionally, physically and everything else. It's not like we have not had discussions in the past. It's not like he has not been told before the issues that need dealt with. He stated to me he doesn't see it...he doesn't have a problem with "us". Gheesh!!! So what is a woman to do at that point? She is generally gonna come unglued.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

Decimated said:


> Maybe generally, but certainly not always. I think that's a stereo type like "All men are cheaters"
> 
> I was the one who was checking the temperature and monitoring our marriage. My XWW was constantly reassuring me that our marriage was great and our love strong, right up to the point where she started screwing posOM. She never communicated or admitted any issues to me. I was the one who was noticing changes in her and was trying to start and keep a dialogue going.


You are one of the exceptions!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Lukedog said:


> I agree with that statement. Women are the emotional caretakers and caretakers in general of a relationship/marriage. Women are the glue that hold the family unit together. They are the ones that see the issues, bring up those issues and want to discuss the issues/get them resolved. And H does not see a problem with ANYTHING! I am having the same problems in my marriage and they have been going on for YEARS. We just had two discussions in the past week. I asked him is he see the disconnect we have, emotionally, physically and everything else. It's not like we have not had discussions in the past. It's not like he has not been told before the issues that need dealt with. He stated to me he doesn't see it...he doesn't have a problem with "us". Gheesh!!! So what is a woman to do at that point? She is generally gonna come unglued.


But what if the real problem is a communication disconnect that cuts both ways? What if your husband sees his own set of issues, that you don't get?

I'm posing the question because that is exactly the trap my marriage fell into. Each of us thinking the other didn't get it.


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## Naku (May 26, 2013)

It's so hard to read this post. While he's being a good husband, working hard to provide for his family, his wife hides her true feelings, deceivng him until she devastates him one day without notice. 

Now, being right is of no benefit. Guys, this is how some, many women feel, so it's still up to us to notice and act.

Here's an explanation from a guy's perspective: How Walkaway Wives Run a Dirty MAP | Married Man Sex Life


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## pineapple (Apr 9, 2016)

aine said:


> Forgive me for posting this here, not sure where I should post it. I found this on a UK discussion board. Those of you who could well be walk away wives will be able to identify with the content, I know some of it I could identify with.
> 
> "_Some people think that a WAW is hard, angry, cold. In a fog. There's more to her than that.
> 
> ...


Wow! I can relate to so much of this. It really hit home. I'm in the numb stage and have been for years. I wanted to wait until the kids were out of school, but that is no longer something I can do.


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## pineapple (Apr 9, 2016)

Thound said:


> And now the rebuttal.
> 
> When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. We talked about making love every day. We promised never to use sex as a tool. We talked how we would communicate our needs, wants and desires. After the long wait the day of our wedding arrives. The great anticipation of the blessed event. Nice wedding wonderful time. The honeymoon was no where near what I expected, but that's ok I was with the one I loved.
> 
> ...


Yep, H did that to me. Except it started to stop when the ring went on the finger. The honeymoon was great. It literally all stopped when we got home. I realize now that he just wanted someone to take care of him, not a wife.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

In the long run, no husband in history ever ended up regretting getting walked away on. That's just a fact 

Yes it's very painful and expensive at first and can even make a man suicidal, but never for long.

If you've been left, walked away from, or dumped, just survive the initial hurt and get on with life. You're guaranteed to feel much better than any previous point in your life in short order.

Try not to repeat your mistakes though. That initial hurt of betrayal or separation is quite a b1tch to deal with and should be avoided as much as possible.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Decimated said:


> Maybe generally, but certainly not always. I think that's a stereo type like "All men are cheaters"
> 
> I was the one who was checking the temperature and monitoring our marriage. My XWW was constantly reassuring me that our marriage was great and our love strong, right up to the point where she started screwing posOM. She never communicated or admitted any issues to me. I was the one who was noticing changes in her and was trying to start and keep a dialogue going.


Same here, till a couple of weeks before she left everytime I asked questions she states how happy she was, things are great etc etc. To this day 3+ years later I have no true clue as to what problems or issues she felt we had. 

I had things I would have liked to improve in our marriage and tried to discuss but was always met with things are great, I'm happy so I never pushed it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Naku said:


> It's so hard to read this post. While he's being a good husband, working hard to provide for his family, his wife hides her true feelings, deceivng him until she devastates him one day without notice.
> 
> Now, being right is of no benefit. Guys, this is how some, many women feel, so it's still up to us to notice and act.
> 
> Here's an explanation from a guy's perspective: How Walkaway Wives Run a Dirty MAP | Married Man Sex Life


I think hiding her true feelings and deceiving him is truly horrid. Unfortunately, as someone mentioned earlier, communication is often at cross purposes, to her she has communicated but not in a way he understands, he thinks she is 'nagging', and in doing so is very disrespectful so he withdraws and becomes unloving in his actions towards her. Then this cycle keeps being repeated until she shuts down, stops the 'nagging' and eventually says she wants a divorce one day. He is shocked, didn't see it coming, but it was there all along in her apparent 'nagging.' That is the crux.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

aine said:


> Finally, playing the devils advocate a bit on this thread. Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


I certinaly wouldn't Agree with that. Least not in all cases. Certinaly wasn't the case in my marriage.


I always get confused about this WAW thing talked about here. I thought WAW was someone walking away for really no reason at all, least any reason or problem with the marriage. They are happy generally in the marriage but get bored or tired of it and cheat or leave.

Most the time when I see WAW described here they have reasons to leave: lack of communication, lack of time spent, lack of sex or whatever. I never consider those examples a walk away spouse, just a walk away from a bad marriage. This is where the "communication gap" comes in. If you have a wife saying I told him for years I was unhappy before I left and a husband saying she never said she was upset then communication was never accomplished. I tend to believe both people are speaking the truth in these circumstances but both were talking and no one was listening, or what one thought was being communicated wasn't coming across that way. So we call these WAW or WAH but they really aren't


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

honcho said:


> Same here, till a couple of weeks before she left everytime I asked questions she states how happy she was, things are great etc etc. To this day 3+ years later I have no true clue as to what problems or issues she felt we had.
> 
> I had things I would have liked to improve in our marriage and tried to discuss but was always met with things are great, I'm happy so I never pushed it.


Wait you didn't know you were to be a mind reader to have to successful realtionship :grin2:

Was in the same boat. You can't fix anything that isn't acknowledged. I knew my X was suffering from her past, she wouldn't talk about it. I tried for years To get to her to therapist but she wouldn't go. When I checked in it was "everything is great" "love you to death" "you're a great husband" and yes she did say all three of these things while having her affair. Communication is key but can't communicate what isn't discussed


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

synthetic said:


> In the long run, no husband in history ever ended up regretting getting walked away on. That's just a fact
> 
> Yes it's very painful and expensive at first and can even make a man suicidal, but never for long.
> 
> ...


I hope you’re right. It’s been 3 years since the divorce and it's still a struggle for me although I’m getting better. I certainly hope the future brings something positive that somehow overshadows for what I’ve been through. 

By definition, I don't think my XWW is considered a WAW. I think she falls more under the category of Mid-life crisis crazy. Her parents died 6 months apart. She started cheating, I found out, she did little to convince me she was remorseful even after her posOM dumped her. I filled for divorce…done. 

I also struggle with the “lessons learned” part. I wish I could say that I learned something that I could apply to any future relationships but because of the nature of her betrayal and her sudden and complete inability to communicate her feelings, I can only guess at what mistakes I might have made. 

I believe it is true that those who do not learn from their mistakes, are doomed to repeat them. I’ve always believed that we should learn from our life experiences and mistakes, move forward with a goal not to repeat them. At this point, I can only move forward and speculate.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Wait you didn't know you were to be a mind reader to have to successful realtionship :grin2:
> 
> Was in the same boat. You can't fix anything that isn't acknowledged. I knew my X was suffering from her past, she wouldn't talk about it. I tried for years To get to her to therapist but she wouldn't go. When I checked in it was "everything is great" "love you to death" "you're a great husband" and yes she did say all three of these things while having her affair. Communication is key but can't communicate what isn't discussed


Yup I got the mind reader angle, closest she ever came to an explanation was that I should "know" what bothers her and she shouldn't have to tell me. Oh yes can't forgive me for "everything", very nice general and broad statement. I chalked most of it up the illusion that affair land gives. 

I'm just a simple guy, person tells me they love me, are happy and don't want anything to change I believe them....silly me.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

Wazza said:


> But what if the real problem is a communication disconnect that cuts both ways? What if your husband sees his own set of issues, that you don't get?
> 
> I'm posing the question because that is exactly the trap my marriage fell into. Each of us thinking the other didn't get it.


I get that point and it does work both ways. But...we have no communication between us...so I wouldn't know what his issues are let alone be able to see and understand unless he tells me. It is a DEEP rut that we have fallen into and can't seem to get out of. Part of my point is that I have brought the subject(s) up many times and have left the door open for him to sit down and discuss such things and he just want to continue to bury his head in the sand.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Lukedog said:


> I get that point and it does work both ways. But...we have no communication between us...so I wouldn't know what his issues are let alone be able to see and understand unless he tells me. It is a DEEP rut that we have fallen into and can't seem to get out of. Part of my point is that I have brought the subject(s) up many times and have left the door open for him to sit down and discuss such things and he just want to continue to bury his head in the sand.


I get how frustrating it is. I just think "burying his head" may be the wrong description. But clearly something has to give. I'd suggest you get someone involved to try and break the communication deadlock. What counselling have you done as a couple?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

pineapple said:


> Yep, H did that to me. Except it started to stop when the ring went on the finger. The honeymoon was great. It literally all stopped when we got home. I realize now that he just wanted someone to take care of him, not a wife.


Pineapple, my husband was the same....seemed willing to work out issues as long as we were dating. We were a step family so we were blending his with mine and he was involved. After we married he told me to take care of issues concerning the kids, that I knew more of what was going on but he did not involve himself and wasn't supportive of my decisions. He was drinking heavy which was an issue but he became more angry about any mention and was no longer as willing to try to work together to resolve the issue. he had his first emotional affair in the first year of our marriage, something that was blatant to my eyes, something I mentioned to him and he denied. 

It never got any better and that is why I am leaving.


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## pineapple (Apr 9, 2016)

Lukedog said:


> I get that point and it does work both ways. But...we have no communication between us...so I wouldn't know what his issues are let alone be able to see and understand unless he tells me. It is a DEEP rut that we have fallen into and can't seem to get out of. Part of my point is that I have brought the subject(s) up many times and have left the door open for him to sit down and discuss such things and he just want to continue to bury his head in the sand.


I get this. I have poured my heart and soul out verbally and in writing and I got nothing in return. There were no accusations. I was sharing feelings. Communicating with H is like communicating with a brick wall. He has always refused to talk about us and is just silent. And, this man is a talker. He has no problem following me around the house talking about his work. He can go on and on about things that he truly has an interest in. That's all water under the bridge now. I don't bother anymore, but I'm dreading the non-discussions that will happen with divorce. Anyway...


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

sapientia said:


> I agree. I do think WAW may suffer more than WAH, if the woman has let herself become dependent on her spouse. That was a topic for another thread, however.
> 
> I am also amused that for husbands, the acronym is "wah!". LOL.


My wife would agree that it fits, that was usually the first word she said, in a whiny baby voice, followed by , "the world doesn't revolve around you, *my name*-boy" when I would try to communicate my feelings and let her know my needs weren't being met and more recently when I told her my love tank was bone dry.

She's never been one to communicate, in fact it was games many times. Like when I didn't know why she was mad, but I was supposed to already, some how know, why she was mad and if I didn't, it meant I didn't love her.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> My wife would agree that it fits, that was usually the first word she said, in a whiny baby voice, followed by , "the world doesn't revolve around you, *my name*-boy" when I would try to communicate my feelings and let her know my needs weren't being met and more recently when I told her my love tank was bone dry.
> 
> She's never been one to communicate, in fact it was games many times. Like when I didn't know why she was mad, but I was supposed to already, some how know, why she was mad and if I didn't, it meant I didn't love her.


The statement mentioned above represents anger & hurt and your wife feeling you are being selfish. I guess I would wonder what "needs" you were indicating to your wife that you needed. If it was sex I can imagine she got real tired of meeting that needs without her own needs being met. I do not know your situation, your wife or you but it is fairly typical for the man to think all is solved with sex but then the wife's needs are not met. I have also found that all people can have passive-aggressive moments but I just wonder how much you actually listened to her. Again, I don't know you but it is not uncommon for a man not to hear his wife talk and then when she finally reaches the end of her rope and realizes communication is getting her no where she will stop. That all kind of goes back to that statement again.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> The statement mentioned above represents anger & hurt and your wife feeling you are being selfish. I guess I would wonder what "needs" you were indicating to your wife that you needed. If it was sex I can imagine she got real tired of meeting that needs without her own needs being met. I do not know your situation, your wife or you but it is fairly typical for the man to think all is solved with sex but then the wife's needs are not met. I have also found that all people can have passive-aggressive moments but I just wonder how much you actually listened to her. Again, I don't know you but it is not uncommon for a man not to hear his wife talk and then when she finally reaches the end of her rope and realizes communication is getting her no where she will stop. That all kind of goes back to that statement again.


She's felt that I'm selfish for a while now. It wasn't until I read the 5 Love Languages that I finally began to understand my self, i thought I was broken all these years, she helped to reinforce that feeling. Her love language is acts of service. I admit, knowing nothing about it, I filled her love tank with acts of service, but not as often as she would have liked. 

The needs I spoke of are those that will fill my love tank, my love language is physical touch. She actually has done the opposite of filling the tank by physically abusing me or rejecting me. It cuts to the core.  All I ever wanted was reciprocation on the hugs, kisses, touches etc... She showed way more to the dogs than to me. I told her I felt invisible, she laughed. :|

She never wanted to actually communicate, if I didn't already know what was wrong, it was my fault because I should know.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> She's felt that I'm selfish for a while now. It wasn't until I read the 5 Love Languages that I finally began to understand my self, i thought I was broken all these years, she helped to reinforce that feeling. Her love language is acts of service. I admit, knowing nothing about it, I filled her love tank with acts of service, but not as often as she would have liked.
> 
> The needs I spoke of are those that will fill my love tank, my love language is physical touch. She actually has done the opposite of filling the tank by physically abusing me or rejecting me. It cuts to the core.  All I ever wanted was reciprocation on the hugs, kisses, touches etc... She showed way more to the dogs than to me. I told her I felt invisible, she laughed. :|
> 
> She never wanted to actually communicate, if I didn't already know what was wrong, it was my fault because I should know.


Was your physical needs for your wife only for your wife or were you seek the attention from other women as well?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

synthetic said:


> In the long run, no husband in history ever ended up regretting getting walked away on. That's just a fact
> 
> Yes it's very painful and expensive at first and can even make a man suicidal, but never for long.
> 
> ...


I would love to believe this is always true.. but there are many who never completely get over a lost love.. it affects even future relationships, someone feels they are living in anothers shadow...... I am just going by things I have read.. and heard of others stories...I feel for them..


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> Was your physical needs for your wife only for your wife or were you seek the attention from other women as well?


Only my wife.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

The OP has a real good post here but I think some are failing to see anything but their own hurt from a spouse that walked away from their marriage. Hey, I get it, I was once there too....it hurts like heck when you are faced with that person you so love walking out on you, your life together and your children, unwilling to work thru issues. When we are talking about the walk away wife I think some of the men here are not realizing their part of what lead up to their wife leaving.

During the early years of marriage, a woman tends to be the emotional caretaker of her relationship. She makes certain her marriage remains a priority, insisting on quality time together, meaningful conversation and shared activities. When a woman feels close to her husband, all is right in the world. However, if the marriage takes a back seat to other commitments, she pursues her husband for more connection by having frequent heart-to-heart talks. If these tête-à-têtes are successful, the marriage blossoms. If not, her complaints are no longer confined to her feeling unimportant. She begins to find fault with many other aspects of their relationship. When voiced to their husband I think many times these words fall on deaf ears or men become defensive or are hurt rather than taking an active part in trying to work thru issues.

I think when these complaints are heard by the husband he then feels he no longer wants to spend more time with her.Rather than expressing this he seeks out porn, goes drinking with the guys, avoids his wife, stays away from home which all makes this worse rather than facing the situation in the first place. This continues, actions repeat themselves and eventually she quietly plans her exit strategy. She tells herself, “I’ll leave when my youngest goes to college, or “I’m going to find my soul mate and then I’ll leave this marriage,” or “As soon as I can support myself financially, I’m outta’ here.”

Exit strategies often take years to execute and during that time women are focused on fortifying their resources, not fixing their marriages. The absence of complaints has their husbands believing that things have improved; they’re out of the dog house. “No news is good news,” they tell themselves as they obliviously continue to lead separate lives. However, there has been no resolve and every time the wife sees her husband engaging in activities that take away from the marriage she continues to seek her day of freedom from the man she feels has treated her so poorly. “D-Day” arrives and their wives inform them that the marriages are over, triggering shock and devastation. “Why didn’t you tell me you were this unhappy,” these men protest, words that finally nail the marital coffin shut. It is then that they start to recognize the importance of their wives and their children. They become desperate to save their marriages.

It is said that people don’t change until they hit rock bottom and I can tell you first hand that the bottom doesn’t get any lower than the earth beneath these men’s feet. The threat of divorce generates true soul-searching. These are the men who readily schedule appointments for therapy, sign up for marriage seminars, read every self-help book they can get their hands on, seek spiritual connection and even risk vulnerability by discussing the f-word (feelings) with friends and family. Gradually, they become the husbands these women have been wanting.

But for so many women it’s “too little, too late,” or “I know this is not going to last. If I stay in this marriage, you will go back to your old shenanigans,” which, though completely understandable, is nonetheless, tragic. 

So what does it take? Would she ever have been heard if she just kept talking and trying to work with the marriage? Were her requests to read books and go to counseling be heard if she just kept trying? Probably not. It took hitting bottom for the husband to finally look at himself in the mirror and some do not ever face that and continue the same way in a new relationship.

There are walk away husbands too but I think you find for the most part these particular situation is typical of male/female relationships and how the female finally walks away from the marriage. My first husband did walk away from our marriage with no attempts for counseling but he was not the one as caregiver and he was not the person in the female role pictured in the above scenario. He was a cheat and his reason for leaving was to be with his lover. He was/is a serial cheater, one that has cheated on every lady he has been with and has burned thru too many to mention.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> The OP has a real good post here but I think some are failing to see anything but their own hurt from a spouse that walked away from their marriage. Hey, I get it, I was once there too....it hurts like heck when you are faced with that person you so love walking out on you, your life together and your children, unwilling to work thru issues. When we are talking about the walk away wife I think some of the men here are not realizing their part of what lead up to their wife leaving.
> 
> During the early years of marriage, a woman tends to be the emotional caretaker of her relationship. She makes certain her marriage remains a priority, insisting on quality time together, meaningful conversation and shared activities. When a woman feels close to her husband, all is right in the world. However, if the marriage takes a back seat to other commitments, she pursues her husband for more connection by having frequent heart-to-heart talks. If these tête-à-têtes are successful, the marriage blossoms. If not, her complaints are no longer confined to her feeling unimportant. She begins to find fault with many other aspects of their relationship. When voiced to their husband I think many times these words fall on deaf ears or men become defensive or are hurt rather than taking an active part in trying to work thru issues.
> 
> ...


I'm not a woman, but you pretty much described me in my relationship. My wife never cared to go to MC or IC or to even read any books. It was like pulling teeth to get her to read the 5 love languages. 

I've been told that I seem more like the female in our relationship and her the male, WTF?!?

Just 'cause I like to cuddle, hold hands and touch, yeah, right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

I communicate well but can't communicate with my STBXW. She is incapable of having a rational conversation. Anything can set her off and she starts yelling, calling me names, and then storms out.

I do not have conversations with her without someone else present or recording it on my phone.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> The OP has a real good post here but I think some are failing to see anything but their own hurt from a spouse that walked away from their marriage. Hey, I get it, I was once there too....it hurts like heck when you are faced with that person you so love walking out on you, your life together and your children, unwilling to work thru issues. When we are talking about the walk away wife I think some of the men here are not realizing their part of what lead up to their wife leaving.
> 
> During the early years of marriage, a woman tends to be the emotional caretaker of her relationship. She makes certain her marriage remains a priority, insisting on quality time together, meaningful conversation and shared activities. When a woman feels close to her husband, all is right in the world. However, if the marriage takes a back seat to other commitments, she pursues her husband for more connection by having frequent heart-to-heart talks. If these tête-à-têtes are successful, the marriage blossoms. If not, her complaints are no longer confined to her feeling unimportant. She begins to find fault with many other aspects of their relationship. When voiced to their husband I think many times these words fall on deaf ears or men become defensive or are hurt rather than taking an active part in trying to work thru issues.
> 
> ...


This in no way reflects what went down between my wife and I. When I sensed she was down I would ask her what's wrong. All she would say is nothing. She never wanted to talk about us in the 36 years we have been together.

And in my opinion men turn to porn after many rejections from their wife or plain vanilla sex. No passion no trying new things. Women just don't understand testosterone. It's like having a muscle car but your only allowed to drive it 45mph


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> I'm not a woman, but you pretty much described me in my relationship. My wife never cared to go to MC or IC or to even read any books. It was like pulling teeth to get her to read the 5 love languages.
> 
> I've been told that I seem more like the female in our relationship and her the male, WTF?!?
> 
> ...


I have seen this. My mom and dad's roles were opposite than most families. It was my dad that was the communicator and my mom was in her own little world. So I have seen both sides. These very lop-sided relationships remain off balance. Some make it work and others thrown in the towel.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thound said:


> This in no way reflects what went down between my wife and I. When I sensed she was down I would ask her what's wrong. All she would say is nothing. She never wanted to talk about us in the 36 years we have been together.


Was she like that from the start? If so, then she was definitely at fault for not talking and opening up to you.



Thound said:


> And in my opinion men turn to porn after many rejections from their wife or plain vanilla sex. No passion no trying new things. Women just don't understand testosterone. It's like having a muscle car but your only allowed to drive it 45mph


I agree that sometimes men turn to porn because their wife rejects them or will only engage in vanilla sex.

But it's not the case in all marriage, probably not even most, where the husband turns to porn. We get many female posters here who want to have more than vanilla sex with their husbands.. but the husband's have turned to porn.

I was married to a guy who turned to porn. Why did he do it? Because he withdrew from all aspects of life. He refused to find a job after losing his job. It was easier for him to sit in his home office, with the door locked, and porn was available whenever he wanted it... without the hassle of having to deal with another human.

To categorically blame women, in every case, when a man decides to abandon his wife sexually and turn to porn is ridiculous. If a man uses porn to the point of abandoning his wife sexually.. it's a choice that he's made that is not all that different from having an affair. It's on him. Not her.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Was she like that from the start? If so, then she was definitely at fault for not talking and opening up to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:smile2: Hi EleGirl, good to see you. I'm one of those type of guys, I had to turn to porn, but really, what were my options? Cheat on STBXW and become a serial cheater? I tried many things to get STBXW to reciprocate, nothing ever worked, all I ever got was rejection. It got to the point that I didn't even want to ask anymore because it hurt so bad to get rejected. Vanilla sex? How about no sex.  I can tell you that it hurt bad enough to threaten her with divorce every so often, something I'm not proud of, but it really hurt to be rejected and my love tank dried up. But I never cheated. :smile2:

I'm embarrassed to say this, but you know what else I've had to do all this time? Every morning and sometimes even at noon, I have to "relieve myself" or I find myself thinking naughty thoughts when I see pretty girls, especially if they are wearing leggings. I mean seriously, there's not too much difference in leggings and body paint. I mean, holy cow, I really get turned on by that. Heck, body paint covers up better than the sheer pants these women wear with and without thongs:surprise:. Pardon me for saying this, but it's become camel toe city where I live, why has this become ok? I've never approved of STBXW wearing them unless STBXW wore a skirt as well, STBXW never complained and always complied. 

Do you know what it feels like to be a physical touch love language, HD sex driven male in this type of environment? I'll tell you how I feel, it sucks, I need the opposite of viagra. > Or a willing wife who chose instead to become my STBXW. 

Also, I didn't take it that Thound was categorically blaming women, I mean it happens to both sexes. Maybe Thound should have put in a some or many, but Thound also didn't put in an all. Does that make any sense, lol, it's late and I should be in bed.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Was she like that from the start? If so, then she was definitely at fault for not talking and opening up to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I am not saying either is right or wrong but I do think it is imperative for men AND women to be aware of those differences. I guess it is tied into communication. Bad or no communication can destroy relationships, it is that simple.


I hope I have made it clear that it takes hard work from both spouses to make a marriage work. We all have to be proactive to ensure a happy and successful marriage.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Thound said:


> 5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.


Thound, it is refreshing to see a man say this!!!!!! My husband has not shown any interest in seeking me out sexually even when dating it was me making all the steps towards him. What I saw when we were dating was that instead of seeking me he was seeking porn. We were counseled....counselor felt perhaps husband had been sexually abused and wanted to explore that with him but husband refused. Our counselor said that porn was safe for husband and that his habit started in his teen years rather than seeking a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship in real life he turned to fantasy. 

So yes, I have gone without in this marriage. I finally got tired of going to him when he was seeking porn or the attention of other women. Did I turn to porn or other men? No! For men to say that after repeated rejections they turned to porn I find it a cowardly excuse for their actions. If all they are seeking from their wives is their own pleasure the woman will get tired of feeling "used." Men will go the extra mile before marriage but once those wedding vows are said it is almost like the man feels she owns the wife and she is obligated to meet his needs. Not hardly, if a man does not put the time and effort into loving his wife for the person she is and being a equal part in the relationship and all the responsibilities of family, making decisions together, etc the female is not going to respond sexually to her husband. Women are emotional creatures and I find men are uncomfortable with the emotional side of themselves let alone their wife.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

aine said:


> Finally, playing the devils advocate a bit on this thread. Would you agree with the sentiment that women are generally the ones who maintain the marriage, regularly take the temperature of the marriage, want to sort out issues, etc. If so then wouldn't it be safe to assume, they are the first to see the problems, start damage control, and if H doesn't listen then it leads to WAW?


As others have stated, I believe this is in no way accurate, at least based on my own experience and from speaking to others. Seems more like a generalization one would make to justify being a WAW (as I have stated before, it seems like the conversation should be about walk away spouses and not gender specific)



Thound said:


> 5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.


Although I would never turn down my wife for porn, I don't necessarily agree that these men would be losers. It is clear that some has a true addiction to porn, and it is no surprise given how early on and easily you can be exposed to porn nowadays.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Porn is so much easier these days. Back in my day we had to drop a penny into a machine, put our eyes up to the viewer and crank the handle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Thound said:


> Porn is so much easier these days. Back in my day we had to drop a penny into a machine, put our eyes up to the viewer and crank the handle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I resorted to watching scrambled Spice channel in hopes every once in a while things lined up and I saw a boobie ...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

aine said:


> Forgive me for posting this here, not sure where I should post it. I found this on a UK discussion board. Those of you who could well be walk away wives will be able to identify with the content, I know some of it I could identify with.
> 
> "_Some people think that a WAW is hard, angry, cold. In a fog. There's more to her than that.
> 
> ...


As a daring counterview to society's outlook, this is about fifty years late.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thound said:


> Porn is so much easier these days. Back in my day we had to drop a penny into a machine, put our eyes up to the viewer and crank the handle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




It's not legal to "crank the handle" in public where I come from


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thound said:


> 5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.


Preferring a fantasy to the real thing could happen for all sorts of reasons. 

It's an interesting discussion....one guys says "This is so awful I'd rather masturbate" faced with a wife who, for example, uses sex as a weapon, while another says "I know what she thinks but I am so desperate for sex I'll accept any abuse as long as I get a bit"....why would you see one of those as a loser and not the other?

I'm not saying that it's always down to the wife when this sort of thing happens, but I am sure it is sometimes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Preferring a fantasy to the real thing could happen for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> It's an interesting discussion....one guys says "This is so awful I'd rather masturbate" faced with a wife who, for example, uses sex as a weapon, while another says "I know what she thinks but I am so desperate for sex I'll accept any abuse as long as I get a bit"....why would you see one of those as a loser and not the other?
> 
> *I'm not saying that it's always down to the wife when this sort of thing happens, but I am sure it is sometimes*.


Yes, sometimes it's down to the wife.

Other times it's not down to the wife.. it's all on the husband. This is the case for which Thound said that he saw the men as losers. Why would you not be able to see that Thound was talking about that particular case?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thound said:


> 5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.





EleGirl said:


> Yes, sometimes it's down to the wife.
> 
> Other times it's not down to the wife.. it's all on the husband. This is the case for which Thound said that he saw the men as losers. Why would you not be able to see that Thound was talking about that particular case?


If a man turns to porn and neglects his wife (which was the case Thound cited) either that is always on him or it's not. His words are not awash with ambiguity. I think I see exactly what he was talking about, and I disagree. Sometimes the man is justified.

A man has a brain, a moral compass, and the ability to chart a course for all sorts of reasons. So for example, I stayed in a marriage that was at times highly dysfunctional, including sexually, for the sake of my kids. I am not advocating that for everybody, but I am at peace that it was, for me, the right decision. My wife thought that if she gave me enough sex she could avoid working through the issues of our affair. I refused to cooperate with this strategy. Some awkward moments ensued.

To me a man who will take any ill treatment from a woman in return for access to her nether regions is to be pitied, rather than admired, and a woman who dishes out such treatment has some responsibility when her husband refuses to just accept it. Its almost like you take it for granted that we think with our d1cks, and some of us don't.

It's not a sustainable situation in the long term, but that's a different discussion. Many guys write of feeling so rejected that they stop asking. Is that so hard to understand? If your goal is shared deep pleasure, and your wife makes it clear she hates it, what is the point?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Long thread but fascinating reading, in terms of how the genders view sex differently. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/275282-so-much-gotten-wrong-i-cant-even-process.html


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Slow Hand said:


> :smile2: Hi EleGirl, good to see you.


Hi >


Slow Hand said:


> I'm one of those type of guys, I had to turn to porn,


According to your post, you are not one of the type of guys my post was about. My post was about men who chose to make their marriage sexless and turn to porn.
Here is the quote that I replied to.


Thound said:


> And in my opinion men turn to porn after many rejections from their wife or plain vanilla sex. No passion no trying new things. Women just don't understand testosterone. It's like having a muscle car but your only allowed to drive it 45mph





Slow Hand said:


> but really, what were my options? Cheat on STBXW and become a serial cheater? I tried many things to get STBXW to reciprocate, nothing ever worked, all I ever got was rejection. It got to the point that I didn't even want to ask anymore because it hurt so bad to get rejected. Vanilla sex? How about no sex.  I can tell you that it hurt bad enough to threaten her with divorce every so often, something I'm not proud of, but it really hurt to be rejected and my love tank dried up. But I never cheated. :smile2:
> 
> …
> 
> Do you know what it feels like to be a physical touch love language, HD sex driven male in this type of environment? I'll tell you how I feel, it sucks, I need the opposite of viagra. > Or a willing wife who chose instead to become my STBXW.


I find your response interesting. My post was about the fact that not all men who turn to porn do so because their wives only want vanilla sex or no sex at all… some men chose to make their marriage sexless and turn to porn as part of that rejection. 

I stated in my post that I was married to a man who chose to make our marriage sexless. That means that I was in a very similar situation as you. 

I was not talking about you. But for some reason you went on the defensive. You gave a very passionate retort to my post about how terrible it is/was to be in a sexless marriage. How much it hurt you. How you felt driven to find sexual release somewhere, in your case in porn.

Do you know what it feels like to be a physical touch love language, HD sex driven WOMAN in this type of environment? It sucks as much for a woman as it does for a man. What options did I have? Did I have the same options you did: to cheat (serially or not), to turn to porn (not women do not since most port is directed at men and pretty demeaning to women), learn to live with it, maybe eventually divorce? I really don’t see where your situation was all that different than mine.. except for the following:

Now let’s add another dynamic. How do you think you’d feel in your situation if you knew that the wife, who was refusing you sex was using porn daily to get off sexually … further rubbing in your face that she just did not want sex with you.. she wanted sex.. just not with you. Most men never quite experience this part of the rejection since most women do not use porn in the same when women chose to make a marriage sexless. This is why I believe that in the situation in which a man rejects his wife and uses porn instead for sexual gratification, it’s not all that different from an affair.




Slow Hand said:


> Also, I didn't take it that Thound was categorically blaming women, I mean it happens to both sexes. Maybe Thound should have put in a some or many, but Thound also didn't put in an all. Does that make any sense, lol, it's late and I should be in bed.


I disagree. I think that when he wrote it, he was making a blanket statement. If a person leaves out words like “all” or “some”, it pretty much means all.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wazza said:


> If a man turns to porn and neglects his wife (which was the case Thound cited) either that is always on him or it's not. His words are not awash with ambiguity. I think I see exactly what he was talking about, and I disagree. Sometimes the man is justified.


Would you also agree that sometimes, when a woman who rejects her husband and choses to make their marriage sexless or near sexless that sometimes the woman is justified?

Do you think that there are times when a man turns to porn and neglects his wife, he’s not justified when it’s a woman who does not cheat and/or does not play nasty games like you say your wife did?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Would you also agree that sometimes, when a woman who rejects her husband and choses to make their marriage sexless or near sexless that sometimes the woman is justified?
> 
> Do you think that there are times when a man turns to porn and neglects his wife, he’s not justified when it’s a woman who does not cheat and/or does not play nasty games like you say your wife did?


I posted because I thought Thound's use of the word loser was inappropriate. I just don't see it that way.

I think that if sex disappears from a marriage it is in trouble. Arguing over who caused it and whether they were justified won't save the marriage. So no woman, and no man, is required to interact sexually, but if you don't find common ground, and a compromise, I can't see the marriage lasting. I don't blame a woman, or a man, who eventually, after trying to turn it around and failing, gives up and walks away from such a situation. As you maybe did, and as I considered doing. 

One other small detail that matters to me. I did not say my wife played nasty games. She didn't. She handled the aftermath of her affair badly. If I thought it had been calculated, I would not still be with her. She is a decent human being who did the best she knew how, however imperfectly, in a hard situation. Not that the distinction helped much at the time


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

aine said:


> Yes I walked away from my marriage, but only because that relationship was destroying me[/I]".



well yoiu put the whole load on him, and expected to be carried along, wtf you think was going to happen to him?

and now you're still singing the same mememememe tune. poor husband.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> well yoiu put the whole load on him, and expected to be carried along, wtf you think was going to happen to him?
> 
> and now you're still singing the same mememememe tune. poor husband.


I guess your vitriol is targeted at me. But if you had bothered to check I did NOT write this story merely posed it from somewhere else.

In fact I am still married to my WW and Alcoholic H and in MC doing my part to resuscitate the M. 
If anyone was carrying a burden or load it was me, for many years including protecting the kids from him. 

And right now my WW & AH would tell you the same thing.

Now if you could get your head out of your A$$ and stop projecting your s**** wrongly onto me I would appreciate it.

I remember you and your story, you were the man who thought money could buy everything including the long term partner you had, and were angry when she did not see it the same way. So who is the one crying poor me? You treat a woman like she is someone to be put on a shelf and taken down when you are ready and then cry when you realise you are going to end up alone because you did not invest in the relationship, except financially. Then that is on you.

Men like you cannot stand women like your long term partner who are strong and call you out on your s*** when they see it.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

What do you call the man who chooses porn over his wife because he is the one who has issues over is own ED and won't do anything about it? And abandons his wife sexually, without any offer of any kind of sexual gratification for her?

What is the wife supposed to do until he decides he wants to "try" to make love to his wife again? Masturbate the rest of her life and pretend everything is ok? It's a pretty lonely and emotionless world to live in.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

aine said:


> I guess your vitriol is targeted at me. But if you had bothered to check I did NOT write this story merely posed it from somewhere else.
> 
> In fact I am still married to my WW and Alcoholic H and in MC doing my part to resuscitate the M.
> If anyone was carrying a burden or load it was me, for many years including protecting the kids from him.
> ...


I have a whole lot of respect for you Aine. I didn't mean to cause a s#it storm. And I wished I would have used a different term other than rebuttal. And to Wazzo I didn't say all because I didn't mean all. I hope my other posts in this thread indicated that both parties have to work hard, and be mindful of their spouses needs to make a marriage happy and fulfilling. When only ome spouse has to carry the load, it will not be too terribly long before he/she quits. Have a good weekend all.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Thound said:


> I have a whole lot of respect for you Aine. I didn't mean to cause a s#it storm. And I wished I would have used a different term other than rebuttal. And to Wazzo I didn't say all because I didn't mean all. I hope my other posts in this thread indicated that both parties have to work hard, and be mindful of their spouses needs to make a marriage happy and fulfilling. When only ome spouse has to carry the load, it will not be too terribly long before he/she quits. Have a good weekend all.


Thound my response was to Spot the Dead dog not you in any way. Your rebuttal is something that is needed to balance such a thread. I am calling out STDD for making a nasty comment. This is not the first time STDD and I have knocked heads so not to worry :grin2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lukedog said:


> What do you call the man who chooses porn over his wife because he is the one who has issues over is own ED and won't do anything about it? And abandons his wife sexually, without any offer of any kind of sexual gratification for her?
> 
> What is the wife supposed to do until he decides he wants to "try" to make love to his wife again? Masturbate the rest of her life and pretend everything is ok? It's a pretty lonely and emotionless world to live in.


I am sure being in that limbo is no fun for any spouse whether male or female. Many of our problems stem from lack of honest communication. We live with people for years yet for a variety of reasons cannot open up to the person who is supposed to be our other half and play this dance of nuance, tips and half truths. 
However, when we are met with honest responses then we also have to be honest with ourselves, are we prepared to put up with it or pull the plug.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

aine said:


> Forgive me for posting this here, not sure where I should post it. I found this on a UK discussion board. Those of you who could well be walk away wives will be able to identify with the content, I know some of it I could identify with.
> 
> "_Some people think that a WAW is hard, angry, cold. In a fog. There's more to her than that.
> 
> ...


Reading this a second time, I am calling BS on it. The British courts are more pro-woman than the American courts and typically feminism has gone further in the UK than the USA.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thound said:


> 5 years ago I would have called BS, but I have since seen many threads here on TAM from women who's husbands had turned to porn, and neglected their wives. The only thing I can think of is these "men" are losers. They prefer a fantasy to the real thing. I would never turn my wife down---- well maybe face down.





Thound said:


> And to Wazzo I didn't say all because I didn't mean all.


Your post didn't seem to make exceptions, and putting "men" in quotes also said something pretty strong. My goal was to put an alternate explanation, which I have done. Peace.



Thound said:


> I hope my other posts in this thread indicated that both parties have to work hard, and be mindful of their spouses needs to make a marriage happy and fulfilling. When only ome spouse has to carry the load, it will not be too terribly long before he/she quits. Have a good weekend all.


Totally agree with this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It is not just turning to porn. I notice, particularly in Asia once the man has got the wife, the kids etc, he checks out. It is something his grandfather did, his father did and now he does, pursuing his career, football, golf, etc. His role is to be provider, interaction with the wife is not high on the priority list. As long as he provides a life style, does well at work, is praised for his lovely family, all is well. So many of my friends have marriages like this, but they will never divorce. I am not Asian so refuse to play that game, either my H is all in or I'm out!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

aine said:


> It is not just turning to porn. I notice, particularly in Asia once the man has got the wife, the kids etc, he checks out. It is something his grandfather did, his father did and now he does, pursuing his career, football, golf, etc. His role is to be provider, interaction with the wife is not high on the priority list. As long as he provides a life style, does well at work, is praised for his lovely family, all is well. So many of my friends have marriages like this, but they will never divorce. I am not Asian so refuse to play that game, either my H is all in or I'm out!


My husband's roots must be Asian, lol!!!!! I am not so sure it is completely uncommon for American men too. I was reading a book a few years back that said men like the chase and put the effort into getting the woman but once married they feel they have reached their goal and stop the pursuit. My husband sure did that. It was like a switch flipped. He wanted me to take care of everything while he pursued his own interests including other women.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

aine said:


> It is not just turning to porn. I notice, particularly in Asia once the man has got the wife, the kids etc, he checks out. It is something his grandfather did, his father did and now he does, pursuing his career, football, golf, etc. His role is to be provider, interaction with the wife is not high on the priority list. As long as he provides a life style, does well at work, is praised for his lovely family, all is well. So many of my friends have marriages like this, but they will never divorce. I am not Asian so refuse to play that game, either my H is all in or I'm out!


I lived this. My ex husband is Asian. I divorced after 16 years...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

AVR1962 said:


> My husband's roots must be Asian, lol!!!!! I am not so sure it is completely uncommon for American men too. I was reading a book a few years back that said men like the chase and put the effort into getting the woman but once married they feel they have reached their goal and stop the pursuit. My husband sure did that. It was like a switch flipped. He wanted me to take care of everything while he pursued his own interests including other women.


A woman deciding her life's work is done once she is married is not unheard of either. It is a cliche and I experienced it. I suspect the more the wedding and getting married seems like a big deal, the more this happens. There are people like this of both sexes and most cultures I imagine.


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