# Wanting too much



## melissab (Sep 22, 2012)

This is going to be a long message, even though I will try to be concise and to the point. I really need help and suggestions. I do not have close friends to talk to and my family would not understand either. So I am left with the internet to help me sort this all out. 

Backstory:
Married in 2006 (he was 29 and I was 26), dated on-off for 10 years prior. Horrible past with cheating/ lying/ verbal and emotional abuse. I strictly wanted to prove everyone that we were meant to be together and to show all the other ladies that I won and ended up with him. Very childish and juvenile thinking. I have always loved him and loved his charisma and love of life. 

We talked before marriage and everything was good and on the same page. I was happy, he was happy, all the lying and cheating ended. Life was perfect. We agreed that the best way to handle finances is to have 3; one shared and each our own. We use the shared to put ½ the rent in. This worked great, then in 2008 I was laid off my work and without an education I couldn’t find anything that paid close to what I was making, so we decided it was time to go to school and pursue my desire and dream of being an RN. I entered community college and attended fulltime. I worked part time to cover gas for my car, my expenses, groceries and cable/ internet. This “seemed” to work, often times I would not have enough to cover and hated to ask for help. It was horrible asking and often being told of how he is sacrificing everything for me to go to school. 

Fast forward, 2012 I graduated school and pasted my boards. I had a job right away and paid well. So I was able to pay ½ rent, my car payment, utilities, groceries. However, that job was horrible and I couldn’t get a new job as I needed my Bachelors of Science. I found a program that would take just over a year to complete, I enrolled and still worked fulltime. I was laid off in April 2014, but was able to work privately for a family until the end of summer. I finished my Bachelor program in August 2014!! 

My husband wanted to move to California (I was fine wherever), I sent my application to transfer my RN license and I should get it next week. So I have not been able to work since August. He has always wanted to move to California for many many years. Before we were planning the latest, I told him that I feel like he has too many wants for the moment and he needs to prioritize them. Do you want to move or start your own business? As financially we cannot move to an expensive place to live and you not work a normal job and only freelance. 
My husband is very talented and works FT and then also runs his own business (computer work). He has been doing that one the side for over 8 years. He really hates authority and any boss in general, so he desires to work for himself and run his own company. I fully support that but right now isn’t the best timing. Many people who want to start their own company works at least a PT to help pay the bills. He keeps telling me that “I’ve supported you all those years and now it’s your turn” and “I cannot focus enough time and energy on my own business” “I cannot do what I need to do as I am working this other dead end job”. He is really a dreamer, which is not a bad thing but I am trying to be level headed here. He wanted to move to California to be “in the industry” and to write screenplays and direct. He wants to buy a home in California. He wants to travel to Europe. 

Current:
I am still waiting for the state to approve my license, but it will be next week at the latest. So I can finally get some work!!!! Husband is thinking that once I am working he will quit his job and focus solely on his business and screenwriting. I told him that there is no way that I would be able to afford everything on my income. I have $700+ a month for student loans and another $150 of personal bills, rent is around $1900, car payment $350, insurance $80, utilities $120, health insurance and much more. Plus he is complaining that our place is too small, so to get a bigger place would be much higher in rent. I don’t want to burst his bubble, but unless he has steady income coming in I don’t think it’s a good idea to quit his job. I can handle him going down to PT. He goes back and says of how he is miserable and hates his job, but refuses to look for another position because he wants to work for himself. I just cannot justify that it’s a good idea. I want to pay off my loans asap, right now that is spread over 15 years. 

How can I talk to him and basically tell him that his thinking or planning is irrational and he needs to make changes to better himself and for us. I don’t want to burst his bubble or try to smash his dreams, he is talented and a very hard worker. He makes jabs at me and said of how he’s supported me and I have to support him. He is so unhappy and has put his life on hold for me. His current position is so bad he complains left and right about his boss. Everything that comes out of his mouth is negative and mean. I feel like the deep love and connection is gone. I mean I twisted my ankle and really hurt myself, he yells at me to get up and how embarrassed he was, not if I am okay. Then in the car he yells at me and says of how I keep on hurting myself and doesn’t understand why. How I need to watch where I am going and need to focus. .. Or as I was walking the bottom of my shoe caught on the carpet and my foot staggered a small bit (I didn’t fall or run into anything) and he yelled at me again for doing that. He never asks if I am okay or come to my aid. 

There is a lot of other things going in. . . very very limited times of intimacy (less than 2x a month), ignoring me, telling me I am holding him back, I am the reason so much is taken out of his paycheck (but I need health insurance), he repeats everything to me to make sure I understand what he's saying, picks battles, when I try to talk to him he responds "well if you didn't upset me or if you didn't do that then we would be fine". I try to talk to him and see the root/ cause of disagreements or misunderstandings but he just puts the blame on me, if I didn't react or say anything to upset him then all would be fine. ugh. 

Is our marriage dead? Any clues/ tips/ suggestions? Thank you


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Sadly,, threads like these are common here. Verbally abusive blamers with little or no empathy.

As ever they flag - but don't necessarily prove - the cluster b personality disorders with narcissistic sociopathic leanings.

Being good at and able to focus on the things he likes but hating most everything else could also indicate a degree of autism. If he shows no other signs of organising random things, probably not.

As an RN,, don't you get basic training in personality disorders? 

For your own peace of mind (or to ruin it) I'd Google and have a read of the cluster b PDs,,, narcissist, sociopath types and see if either one stands out. Usually you'll get symptoms of more than one and rarely an opportunity to say "That's definitely him!"

Stress will make him worse,, but don't write this off to stress alone cuz he's not seeing how he helped to create it.

There's enough in your OP to be reasonably confident that, the abuse/blame/selfish cycle has reached an entrenched stage that'll only get worse if not addressed.

Have a look at this and if you get any pointers search the net for more details. Come back with any questions.

DSM-5: The Ten Personality Disorders: Cluster B - Personality Disorders
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melissab (Sep 22, 2012)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Sadly,, threads like these are common here. Verbally abusive blamers with little or no empathy.
> 
> As ever they flag - but don't necessarily prove - the cluster b personality disorders with narcissistic sociopathic leanings.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply and information. We did cover some mental health and personality/ sociopath behaviors but VERY general. I work in pediatrics, so I don't see this in practice. 

I will research and see ways that could/ would help this situation. I just feel so lost and truly alone. I cannot tell my family as they would worry about me and my close friends just do not see it. I have no place to go to, as now my family lives several states away. 

Thank you again for your help and insight. 
M


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You confuse things by posting two threads in different places giving very different (or contradictory just different) information. I’m posting this on both of your current threads…

The other one is at : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/236058-divorce-my-only-option.html

I went back to your other threads in September and November in which you were upset because your husband took his mother out to a restaurant but did not invite you.
Now in these two threads today you bring up more info. I see a few things going on. 

*You and your husband have both let your marriage fall apart. *

For the last 6 years you have been working and going to school. That’s more than a full time effort. Your husband has been working a job and free lancing. How many hours a week do the two of you spend together doing date like things, just the two of you? I’ll bet it’s next to nothing. It takes a minimum of 15 hours a week doing this to maintain the connection and love in a relationship.

When a couple loses their connection, the way your marriage is, is what you get. Two people who interact with each other like water being poured into hot oil.

You say that your husband did not used to be so critical and mean but that over time he’s grown into being like this. You are both doing what a couple does when the relationship falls apart.

You are fighting. You are annoying each other. He’s mean to you. You are overly needy (not wanting him to take his mother out to dinner.) You have both become selfish and only seeing your own side of things.

For example, your husband supported you while you got your nursing degree. Sure you worked part time and have student loans that you have to pay off. But you could not have done it without his financial support. That was a HUGE strain on him. Now he’s resentful because the result is that he no longer has a happy marriage. You are resentful because he’s resentful. Have you ever thanked him profusely for his putting up with you going to school? Do you realize how much of strain you put on the relationship?

Then to add to the strained relationship the two of you moved to California where you have not been able to find work yet. And where your husband hates his job and is free lancing. So now he resents you even more. To which his solution how is to badger you saying that you now owe him so he’s going to quit his job, freelance and you have to support him.

I see no love here from ether of you towards the other. Only resentment, annoyance and neediness.

And to top it off the two of you cannot even talk to each other much without exploding.. Totally predictable. You both see the other one at fault.

So now what?

*How to stop this and try to get back on track if at all possible. *

It takes two to argue. I suggest that you stop arguing with your husband. When you see that a conversation with him is going to erupt into a fight, just say “STOP” and tell him that you need to cool off so you are going to take a time out. Then go to another room, or for a walk. Do not ever again engage in a fight or screaming match with him. You have 100% control over your part in any argument. If you need to, practice this in front of a mirror until you stopping and walking away is automatic.

You say that you cannot afford counseling right now. There are some books that are as good as counseling. Read them in this order and do the work they say to do:

“His Needs, Her Needs”

“Divorce Busting. 

“Love Busters”

They will tell you how to get your marriage back on track and how to keep it on track. If it turns out that your husband will not join you this journey to regain your marriage, then at least you will know what to do in your next relationship. 

The next thing is that you need to remedy the fact that you move no close friends and it sounds like no interests outside of your home life and your work.



*You have no close friends or family. *

Why don’t you have any close friends for family? This is not emotionally healthy. For example, you got upset when your husband wanted to take his mother out to dinner. Your MIL and you don’t get along very well. But you say that your own mother has cut off contact with you, so one of the reasons you wanted to go along is because you wanted some motherly love from your MIL. You know that you will not get motherly love from your MIL. You two don’t get along very well.

Your husband has every right to take his mother out once in a while, just the two of them. You should not be so dependent and needy that he cannot do this without you laying a huge guilt trip on him. I’m wondering is part of the problem between you and your husband is that you are too clingy, too needy.

A large part of the solution to this is for you to cultivate friends and activities that you enjoy. Take a look at Find your people - Meetup. Enter the city or zip codes in the area where you live and find things to do. You will meet other people who like the same things you do. You are a nurse. I’ll bet you can find a group of nurses. What are your hobbies? Find groups doing those, get out and meet people.

*You are accident prone. *

There is reason why you are accident prone. Do some work to find out why so you and stop having so many accidents. A person should be able to look at their own flaws and work to improve them. For example, you say that you’re your foot caught on carpet so you tripped. If this kind of thing happens to you often, it is most likely one of two things (or both). You don’t watch where you are going. So work on watching where you are going. And/or you don’t pick your feet up high enough when you walk. So do exercises in which you emphasize picking your feet up higher when you walk. Practice this. So now you can practice watching where you are going and picking your feet up higher when you walk (instead of dragging your feet. I tend to do both of these things and have worked to retrain myself. This becomes more and more important as you get older. The last thing you want to do is to have the kind of fall you did when you are an old lady. I learned what a hazard this is watching my poor mother have some bad falls.

All of your primarily about what’s wrong with your husband. Sure, he sounds like a cad for yelling at you when you broke your ankle. Not good at all. But you cannot change him. You can only change yourself. And I’m sure that you hope that he will follow your lead and change as well to improve your marriage so that the two of you can be happy again. But that’s up to him.
You are responsible for your own happiness. You said that “I feel like I am bitter and rude. How did I change to this horrible person? Husband doesn’t try to uplift me”. It’s your job to uplift yourself. It’s your job to get yourself out of this funk you have allowed yourself to fall into.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Now on the topic of your financial issues... You and your husband obviously need to work this out without resentment, without hurting each other. 

I'm hoping that the book "His Needs, Her Needs" will help with how to do this.

Did your husband like the job he had before you two moved to California? Or is he habitually unhappy with his jobs?

Most entrepreneurs are people how do not like having a boss (don't like authority). It's usually a strong driver to set out on their own. It's usually a lot more work to strike out on your own then it is to work a job.

He does seem like a dreamer, as you say he wants to quit his job, get a bigger place in an extremely high rent/housing area, travel to Europe, etc. Well a lot of people do all of those. So who knows, maybe he will be able to.

Were I you, I'd have several concerns about him wanting to quit his job to freelance and have you support him....

He's saying that you now owe him to support him. This is not love and it's not marriage. He's really angry with you and by golly you owe him. Where's the idea that you are both working together for a common goal. Do you two even have any common goals anymore?

If he's going to have this great freelance company, why would you need to support him. Isn't he planning on making a lot of money doing this? Isn't that a large part of why he wants to do this? Him quitting his job to become a full time freelance should not be equated to he's going to work part time and you are going to support him.

While he may be upset at the strain your schooling put on the marriage and he may feel cheated/resentful right now, the fact is that as long as the two of you are married he will benefit from that education.

He will also benefit from it if you get divorce. See you live in California... the state where alimony is pretty much automatic. Up to 10 years of marriage, if you divorce the higher paying spouse will have to pay the other alimony for half the length of the marriage. If you say up to 10 years.. it can be as long as lifetime.

Because you have a good degree now and can earn a decent living, he as the higher paying spouse will either not have to pay any alimony or it will be greatly reduced. Plus, school debt is not community debt. So you, and you alone are responsible for paying that off if you divorce.

As soon as you start working, he will benefit from his investment. Maybe he needs to be reminded of this.

Now back to his freelancing he's been doing. How successful has he been? Does he get steady work from it? Does he have steady, reliable clients? How does he get his clients? Is he hitting the pavement, doing cold calling? Is it word of mouth? Or is he using the freelance websites and bidding?

I'm a software engineer and have done a lot of freelancing. I also have a company that does this and other things in addition to a full time job at an engineering firm.

One thing I had to learn is that when I'm working, I cannot be selling my services and lining up the next freelance job. When I'm marketing, I cannot work billable hours. How is your husband handling this? Does he just seem to get lost in the work and then come up for air, and start marketing, once he runs out of freelance work? Or has he managed to find a balance between the two.

Were it me, if he has not figured out how to balance these two aspects of business, I would not encourage him to go out on his own. I've seen a LOT of people crash and burn. Most people only want to do the technical work because that's what they are good at. Or they only want to do the marketing because that's what they are good at.


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## melissab (Sep 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You confuse things by posting two threads in different places giving very different (or contradictory just different) information. I’m posting this on both of your current threads…
> 
> The other one is at : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/236058-divorce-my-only-option.html
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness, thank you so much for your response, information, insight and suggestions. You are very spot on on our behaviors and reasons. I am taking your advice and already putting it into action!!! You have been just a handful of people who have really tangible advice and ways to make the situation better. So thank you for taking the time and writing. 

Yes, my husband and I have had a long and terrible past, but that is long ago. Even from August when him and his mother went out to eat; I am okay with it now. I have put things into perspective. I have made a promise to STOP all arguing until we BOTH are calmed down and did some reflective thinking. I think this will help a ton and reduce or eliminate saying things out of frustration or anger. 

I also asked if he would be willing to sit down and have a true heart to heart talk- he said yes! I want to have him do some "prep" work before we sit down. 
1. What can I do to help you make you happy?
2. What should I continue to do to make you happy?
3. What are you missing from me?
4. What are my biggest flaws? 
5. What do I do that annoys you?
6. What can I do to help with your business -make phone calls, set up meeting places, do newsletters, mailing etc? 
7. What is your short term goal with your business (to be accomplished by the end of the month)?
8. What is a medium term goal with your business (to be accomplished withing 6 months)
9. What are your long term goals?
10. What is your plan and envision for your company? 
11. What direction do you see your company going? Or who/ what is your ideal customer. 

I would give this to him and have him reflect and write out his answers. I would also ask him if he has any questions or things that he wants me to reflect on or address. The main focus would be what can I do to help make this a reality. I want us to sit down and have a good, calm talk. If either one starts to get frustrated I will say that we need a break and I will go for a walk solo and then regroup. 

Yes, we've been super busy and taking our marriage for granted, but now it's time to make it a strong priority. I will look into that book that you suggest "her needs/ his needs". Thank you. I have joined some of the meetup to make new friends but also joined ones that help with natural healing and balances. I am not sure if I 100% believe it, but if it at least allows me to relax, be calm and centered then it's a gain. 

Yes, I am accident prone. You described the whole foot grabbing, I was tired and was perhaps being lazy and not lifting it all the way up. I am attempting to be more aware of my surroundings. 

Another positive that I am doing is making my healthy a priority. I am overweight (which could lead to a lot of the problems we're having). I am heating all-natural clean diet and soon I know that I can exercise. So I am making myself more attractive to him. 

We do try to have atleast 1 date night a week. Since we're in a new town and I am not working, we are doing this every other day/ night. I think there is just the resentment of me not working. I pray that when this changes then things will be back to normal. 

I agree that a lot of the resentment and problems is were both stuck in this small apartment. He is working from home and I have nothing/ no place to go. SO we're around each other 24/7. Which leads to getting on each others nerves. I have joined some meet up groups. I hope to be able to find adult ladies who are genuine. I have hired a nutritionist/ coach to help me with my changes of food and to become healthier. 

In regards to his family and him doing solo events with them, I am find with that. I was taking it all so personal and it has nothing to do with it. I was also looking at his sisters and mom as close friends and again they are not. I need to add some distance and not allow them to get in and have any affect on me. This new was of thinking I feel is very helpful. I did also reconcile with my Mom, we just put the past behind us and moved on. Since the move, I've talked to her more. 

As a side note: When I post on here, its usually right as I am heated and most upset, so the words just comes flowing out. Once I've settled down then I am able to see clearer. Going forward here is my plan (let me know what you think and and changes)
1. Take a break as an argument unfolds. Take a break and think of what is the core problem or feeling. 
2. Return and first thing is ask what he needs from me and visa- verse. This helps identify what is missing. 
3. Ask how can this be handled? Or what needs to be done to end or rectify the problem. 
4. Come up with an agreement on how to handle it next time. 
5. Then again ask what he needs from me.

I think that is where I AM lacking in providing to him. 
Lacking to see what he need mentally, physically and emotionally. Or me putting my feeling before his. 

Any other insight, words of advice, disagreements are welcomed. I truly want to make this work. I love him!
M


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Yay! A list maker!

Great stuff Melissa.

I keep advising people to make lists cuz they help focus. Don't think a one of them has tried it. lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melissab (Sep 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Now on the topic of your financial issues... You and your husband obviously need to work this out without resentment, without hurting each other.
> 
> I'm hoping that the book "His Needs, Her Needs" will help with how to do this.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your reply, information and suggestions. You were 100% on the mark. So scary of how you know without knowing me!! 

I will look into that book on Amazon. Thank you for the suggestion. 

No he did not like his job before transferring. His department is falling apart and has been for awhile. He is very essential part of the team but then also gets all the crap and problems from others. He works from home and able to complete his tasks and often does Skye meeting. His boss is the worst, micromanage and always wanting to talk about this and that, it seems like she is "testing him' and to ensure he is working from home. But he's been doing 2 days a week from home for the past 2 years. He HAS proven that he is dependable. I told him to apply and find something elsewhere, one company that he fell in love with has a position that is right up his alley but he said that he doesn't want to work for others. I get that, but also staying is torturing. Might-a-well go to a place that you at least like the people or environment, then when you come home you are not drained from all the negativity and problems. He will not entertain that idea  

Yes, he is surely a dreamer and wanting it all. There is nothing wrong in wanting and having goals, that is what makes us strive and be the best we can be. I tread so carefully because I do not want to be "that" person who crushes his dream. I would honestly love the idea of him working 100% himself and for his own company, but I feel now is not the time. He runs a multimedia/ branding/ web design services. He has a dozen clients and they have been faithful and stayed with us (They are blue colored people (country guys mechanic shop in MN, Organic family farm in MN and many more. They are more smaller businesses, but he has kept them and kept them happy. Yes, he has clients. I just cannot fathom that his intake (minus taxes) would be enough. It's so sticky. 

So my solution, is to sit down with him with NO distractions and have a truly heart-to-heart talk. Talk about our goals/ dreams/ actions/ support/ what each other needs from the other and more. I will create a document to be reviewed and answered privately. Once completed we will sit down and calming talk. The moment it turns and anger arises or hurtful words come out then I will take a break and go for a walk. 

I need to make our relationship a priority and fix all the damage that has been done. We need to connect at a deeper level. We've done it before and can do it again. 
Thank you for reading this, Please add any comments, recommendations, criticism and more. Thank you 
M


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## melissab (Sep 22, 2012)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Yay! A list maker!
> 
> Great stuff Melissa.
> 
> ...


I am list person. I love my lists. Look at my posts, I had items in a list


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

melissab said:


> I am list person. I love my lists. Look at my posts, I had items in a list


I can't see post history on my mobile so, alas, I'll have to gorge on your lists another day.

The near euphoria I experienced upon seeing the one in this thread will sustain me for a week before, once again, my craving to see the art of listery deployed and utiliised demands satisfaction.

Should be a sticky thread for lists and listers.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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