# Writing: Men vs Women



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

In another thread, I pondered, *"Why are women, on average, better writers than men, but at the extreme, most of the "great" authors are men???"*

Since it was suggested I start a new thread, here goes. To recap, I was somewhat on-topically replying to the posting, "I could probably tell you all a man's "thought process" in about 1 paragraph."

Then a post disputed my "boys are generally better at math & girls are generally better at language" claim: "I can remember being told in kindergarten that math was for boys as late as 1976."

This takes us deeper into the "nature/nurture" question. If there's a culture of little girls telling each other not to apply themselves at math, because it's not feminine, that's a point of nurture. But if it's the teacher *consoling* the girls who simply tend to struggle more with math, that *might* be more a point of nature.

Although the comment, "Just because female writers weren't acknowledged or celebrated doesn't mean they weren't great. (list of some great women authors)...not sure where you're getting your information." questions my assertion, almost all lists of 20th century great authors look like this or this.

So first, are my assertions true? Second, if so, is it by nature or nurture? Third, is there anything interesting to be learned from these differences? Much like all the male-female sex drive questions, there may be small value in discussing "averages," since we're all individuals, not averages, but maybe there's something of interest here?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

This could be a huge subject. Are you wanting to talk about in recorded human history.. like perhaps back Ancient Greece? Or are you addressing modern day writers?

Since you used the word "great" it sounds like you want cover all of recorded history. That's a BIG subject with different answers for different times.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Historically, men have had more access to education, and as such are reflected to a higher degree in the ranks of the "great" authors.

However, looking at recent history--the wealthiest author of ALL time...JK Rowling.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Hmm, I don't know. 

My daughter excels at math with little effort and my sister can't read or write for crap.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

English 44A 
SMU 
Creative Writing 
Prof. Miller

In¬class Assignment for Wednesday: 
Today we will experiment with a new form called the tandem story. The 
process is simple. Each person will pair off with the person sitting 
to his or her immediate right. One of you will then write the first 
paragraph of a short story. The partner will read the first paragraph 
and then add another paragraph to the story. 

The first person will then add a third paragraph, and so on back and 
forth. 

Remember to re¬read what has been written each time in order to keep 
the story coherent. The story is over when both agree a conclusion 
has been reached. 
And now, the Assignment as submitted by Rebecca & Gary: 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
At first, Laurie couldn't decide which kind of tea she wanted. The 
chamomile, which used to be her favorite for lazy evenings at home, 
now reminded her too much of Carl, who once said in happier times, 
that he liked chamomile. But she felt she must now, at all costs, 
keep her mind off Carl. His possessiveness was suffocating, and if she 
thought about him too much her asthma started acting up again. 
So chamomile was out of the question. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
Meanwhile, Advance Sergeant Carl Harris, leader of the attack squadron 
now in orbit over Skylon 4, had more important things to think about 
than the neuroses of an air¬headed asthmatic bimbo named Laurie with 
whom he had spent one sweaty night over a year ago. 
"A.S. Harris to Geostation 17," he said into his transgalactic 
communicator. "Polar orbit established. No sign of resistance so 
far..." But before he could sign off a bluish particle beam 
flashed out of nowhere and blasted a hole through his ship's cargo 
bay. The jolt from the direct hit sent him flying out of his seat and 
across the ****pit. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
He bumped his head and died almost immediately, but not before he felt 
one last pang of regret for physically brutalizing the one woman who 
had ever had feelings for him. Soon afterwards, Earth stopped its 
pointless hostilities towards the peaceful farmers of Skylon 4. 
"Congress Passes Law Permanently Abolishing War and Space Travel", 
Laurie read in her newspaper one morning. The news simultaneously 
excited her and bored her. She stared out the window, dreaming of her 
youth when the days had passed unhurriedly and carefree, with no 
newspapers to read, no television to distract her from her sense of 
innocent wonder at all the beautiful things around her. "Why must one 
lose one's innocence to become a woman?" she pondered wistfully. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
Little did she know, but she has less than 10 seconds to live. 
Thousands of miles above the city, the Anu'udrian mothership launched 
the first of its lithium fusion missiles.? The dim¬witted wimpy 
peaceniks who pushed the Unilateral Aerospace Disarmament Treaty 
through Congress had left Earth a defenseless target for the hostile 
alien empires who were determined to destroy the human race. 
Within two hours after the passage of the treaty the Anu'udrian ships 
were on course for Earth, carrying enough firepower to pulverize the 
entire planet. With no one to stop them, they swiftly initiated their 
diabolical plan. The lithium fusion missile entered the atmosphere 
unimpeded.? The President, in his top¬secret mobile submarine 
headquarters on the ocean floor off the coast of Guam, felt the 
inconceivably massive explosion which vaporized Laurie and 85 million 
other Americans. The President slammed his fist on the conference 
table. "We can't allow this!? I'm going to veto that treaty! Let's 
blow 'em out of the sky!" 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
This is absurd. I refuse to continue this mockery of literature. My 
writing partner is a violent, chauvinistic, semi¬literate adolescent. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
Yeah?? Well, you're a self¬centered tedious neurotic whose attempts at 
writing are the literary equivalent of Craig's List. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
Ass-hole. 

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ 
B1tch.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Amplexor said:


> English 44A
> SMU
> Creative Writing
> Prof. Miller


Beat me to it!


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Or are you addressing modern day writers?


Yes, the links I posted were 20th Century authors, assuming the further back in time, the harder it would have been for a woman author to get published.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> ...the wealthiest author of ALL time...JK Rowling.


Interesting. I hadn't thought about wealth generated as the measurement of greatness, but as long as an adjustment for inflation is made, I can't argue it shouldn't be at least one of the measurements.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> "Creative Writing"


Loved that!!! It's particularly funny to me, because when I'm criticized for liking neither sci-fi nor chick flicks, I always reply, "Well, what I don't like are BAD MOVIES, and sci-fi and chick flicks are unfortunately especially likely to be bad." Both genres I find occasionally great, just not very often.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There are a lot of articles on the internet that talk about this. Have you searched those?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

To answer the OP there are so many wonderful Women writers. Even though in more recent history women have greater opportunity in education, I recently read an article by male Author (will see if I can find the article) who said that females were discriminated against in the industry and that many women in literature and other genres (television, movies etc) were limited by sexism.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

In British literature not only have there been many prominent women but some women used male pen names. Also, as in many fields of endeavor women had to forge into a male dominated club. No different in writing then politics...


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

bestyet2be said:


> Then a post disputed my "boys are generally better at math & girls are generally better at language" claim: "I can remember being told in kindergarten that math was for boys as late as 1976."
> 
> This takes us deeper into the "nature/nurture" question. If there's a culture of little girls telling each other not to apply themselves at math, because it's not feminine, that's a point of nurture. But if it's the teacher *consoling* the girls who simply tend to struggle more with math, that *might* be more a point of nature.


I think it's both nature and nurture. I'm naturally inclined to math and science, excelled at both in school. This was nurtured by my mother who also is strong in math and science. I entered 1st grade in 1971 went to many schools growing up never had a teacher male or female tell me that math and science wasnt for girls all encouraged my natural abilities. 

What I've observed recently in my children's education is that the common core curriculum in math is more difficult for boys to adapt to. Heck, I couldn't adapt to it either I hate it. I asked my daughter how the class did end of this year and far more girls were advanced to the next level in math than boys.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bestyet2be said:


> In another thread, I pondered, *"Why are women, on average, better writers than men, but at the extreme, most of the "great" authors are men???"*
> 
> Since it was suggested I start a new thread, here goes. To recap, I was somewhat on-topically replying to the posting, "I could probably tell you all a man's "thought process" in about 1 paragraph."
> 
> ...


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

bestyet2be said:


> In another thread, I pondered, *"Why are women, on average, better writers than men, but at the extreme, most of the "great" authors are men???"*
> 
> Since it was suggested I start a new thread, here goes. To recap, I was somewhat on-topically replying to the posting, "I could probably tell you all a man's "thought process" in about 1 paragraph."
> 
> ...



Mathematical ability seems to relate to the the number and variety of neural cross connections in the brain which, studies are starting to show, is the product of neuroplasticity. In another words notions of gender differences of mental capacity are largely horse poop and people in general are good at what they do a lot of or train themselves to do. 

The great thing about this is that neuroplasticity, though most intense in adolescence, still works at any age. 

Neuroscience is backing up the idea that, in general, no one is doomed to be or not be anything. Apply yourself and you will be rewarded.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

All I can offer .. whether Nature or Nurture -given my own personal experience.... I SUCK ROYALLY at MATH .. hate it, please give me the calculator !! I have balanced every month's check book since we've been married - so I'm not a total idiot... but I never got beyond algebra in High school.. and never considered College because I felt like a complete & utter Failure AT MATH..... but LOVED reading & English!! 

And my husband was the complete opposite of me.... he HATES reading, Writing, reports & such, this is where he got his worst grades.... but did pretty good at MATH! .. though he never took the difficult (Trig, Calculus) as he never felt he was College material either..

It's been nice to see our sons excel here, in Honors classes even.. they sure didn't get this from ME!


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There are a lot of articles on the internet that talk about this. Have you searched those?


Only inasmuch as seeing there's lots of disagreement, confusion, and noise. For example this article, "6 Must-Read Books About Boys," observes of learned experts, "Some of the information in this book directly contradicts claims made by Sax and Gurian in their books."


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> ...Even though in more recent history women have greater opportunity in education, I recently read an article by male Author (will see if I can find the article) who said that females were discriminated against in the industry and that many women in literature and other genres (television, movies etc) were limited by sexism.


So *IF girls are born with a certain advantage* in language, communication, and writing, and IF the lists I linked to showing almost all *men as the greatest authors of the 20th Century* are fair, then women would seem to have suffered truly *ghastly discrimination*.

I'm sure that would be my mother's take on the subject. She's emphatic on how very bad things were for women of her generation. Like many people, I take info from aged parents with a large grain of salt. Still, I don't totally dismiss the claim....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> However, looking at recent history--the wealthiest author of ALL time...JK Rowling.



Lolz 

Look up Gillian Flynn (Gone Girl). JK can't even hire the right ghost writer half the time.


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