# Just a Friend - Friends of oppisite sex



## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

My wife and I have been married 15 years. Trust and Jealously have never been a problem at all until recently. I guess I'm here to find out how others would interpret the actions of my wife's friend. He used to be her boss and they would joke about being work spouses. He is 15 years her senior. They both enjoy running and would often run together on weekends. He is married and the four of us would have dinners and do other activities together, but the primary friendship was between this guy and my wife. We moved out of state and away from him about five years ago and that was the last I thought I would hear of him. Recently they reconnected when she took our kids back to our home state for a visit. This resulted in her planning a weekend trip to go see her friend and his wife at their home in another state. I always kept an eye on this friendship, but never had felt threatened enough to say anything about it. I called her the evening she arrived and she informed me that the wife was not going to be there because of an out of town work project. She claimed not knowing for sure if the wife was going to absent until she arrived. 
I was not ok with it and instantly felt as though a game was being played. I did the standard insecure thing and looked at her phone bill. I saw that they spent about 4 ½ on the phone with him during the 30 days preceding the trip. Some of those called exceeded an hour. I also noticed that my wife was not posting anything about her trip on social media, which isn't normal. Also, no photos from her trip were popping up on the cloud, again not normal. I let her know while she is still there that I am not ok with her staying at his home without his wife in town. I'm told they are just old friends and I don't have anything to worry about.
When she arrived home we argue about it. I ask her about the long phone calls. She says it's because she was talking to him about a job that he was going to help her get that would involve traveling back to our home state. She is a homemaker currently, and her re-entering the workforce is something I support, but would have expected her to discuss it with me. I ask to see any texts messages between the two of them, she says she deleted all the text messages to save storage. I find out later by accident that she was texting him on an app. I find this out because the images she sends backup to the photo album. Over a two month period she sends him 40 pictures. Most of them are innocent enough, but 3 are selfies, and three are of her feet. When I ask to see the texts she again has deleted them all. She refuses letting me attempt to recover them. 
We are in turmoil for the next coupled weeks. Then I find out by looking at the phone bill that they had another hour long conversation. I ask my wife about it and ask if she was talking to him about our fighting. She says no and is upset that I spied on her. I end up texting the guy to stay away from my wife. He does not respond to me at all. He does inform my wife about the text, and she got really mad at me for trying to control her and ruin her friendship. She promises that she will not discuss out marriage or me with this guy. A couple days later I set up a recorder in the kitchen. I record the guy calling her. The call does not appear on the phone bill. During the call she discusses out marriage, me, I can deduce that he doesn't like me, talks about my dark side, jokes about "if anything happens to her at least he knows what happened". I confront my wife about this call and she initially denies it until I say it was recorded. I didn’t hear anything romantic occurring on the phone call which is a plus. 
Through our marriage counseling she has agreed to temporarily stop communicating with the guy. The marriage counselor has maintained that it was not an emotional affair. While I feel better that she isn’t talking to him, I know she wants to resume talking to him. She has also maintained that he has done nothing wrong since she asked him to call her and she was the one who broke her promise. She is upset with me because I told the guy that we are not friends and will never see him again. She also knows I likely won’t ever be comfortable with them spending time together. I feel like his actions warrant me cutting off all ties with him. Regardless of how you want to label their relationship, I feel like his actions were focused on their relationship and disregarded me and the marriage. Any thoughts?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Lots of red flags.

Not paranoia, it's real.

The fact there was no romance talk on the recorded phone call is good, but this is still not right.

I would lay low and find out more. Keep recording and snooping. Btw, snooping is not a violation if your wife
Is giving you good reasons to snoop, and she is.

Stop confronting her. Keep digging.

Even in the remote possibility that there is no hanky panky, this is not good and damaging to your marriage.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Shes already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt shes a lier.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Lots of warning signs. What is not clear is whether anything wrong has happened yet. Its possible that it hasn't and she honestly believes it is innocent - but its going in a bad direction.

How is your marriage otherwise? (Not as an excuse, but to get an idea of the best approach).


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

You already know this is at least an emotional affair (EA), and with her spending the weekend at his home without his W, then it is very likely it is a physical affair (PA), which was likely a continuation of what they had going on before you moved.

TOTAL NO CONTACT between this guy and your W is a MUST ... NO EXCEPTIONS. Also, she can forget the travel job back to your home town. If she can't live with that, well then you know it is as bad as you've feared. Many will advise a polygraph and STD testing, but the main thing is demanding NO CONTACT for life as a first step. See how she reacts to that and get back with us.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She lied about not knowing the wife was going to be away. Does his wife know she stayed with him all weekend? 
I think the counsellor is wrong, this is way over stepping the line and deliberately going to spend that weekend with him when she knew his wife was not going to be there is a massive red flag, as is telling you they were both going to be there. 

If you want the marriage to carry on she has to go no contact for good. They are both being so disrespectful towards you and your marriage. You have done the right thing by setting boundaries and you may want to tell his wife what has been going on.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Talking on the phone for an hour or more multiple times, and this man is not her husband... is not good. 

Deleting her texts...

Sending lots of photos to a man who is not her husband...

Sending selfies and photos of her feet...

Staying at his house all weekend when his wife is gone....

Your wife is having an EA at best, a PA at worst.

From here on out: no more male "jogging buddies," friends, phone friends, texting friends, whatever!!

No more deleting texts. She and you must leave all texts on the phone in case either of you wants to verify. (However she already deletes any incriminating texts, showing she is hiding something and willing to lie to you.)

Have you spoken with the OM's wife and told him everything you know?


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## SofaKingWeToddId (Feb 7, 2013)

Talk to the guy's wife. Don't warn your wife before you do it or she will warn him and he will tell his wife you are crazy. I have a feeling she will be surprised to find out your wife stayed at her house while she was away at work. 

You may want to think about firing the marriage counselor. They are just going to do more harm by making your wife feel like she's done nothing wrong. The truth is it doesn't matter what your wife or the MC says, this makes you uncomfortable and it needs to stop. 

Keep posting.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> Have you spoken with the OM's wife and told him everything you know?


For emphasis


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

You need to contact his wife as soon as possible. He will then contact your wife
and tell her about it. If you can have a recorder so you will know when he does.
I agree that she had to know his wife was not going to be there. If she has agreed
to no contact then telling the OM wife will be a good way of knowing if they are still
in contact. You have every right to snoop on your wife if this is going on. Your wife 
will become defensive and try and blame you for something. Sounds like she is all
ready trying to do this. If you have family in your home state consider contacting them 
when you get more proof. She should not be traveling any place soon. She may try and tell
you that you are being controlling and they are just friends. If he is 15 years older
then he may be trying to just set her up for something with fake promises of helping 
her get back in to the work force. She may be impressed by this but what ever is 
going on is not your fault/ do not let her try and blame you. When you contact his wife be sure 
and tell her everything (texts, selfies etc)


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

As other has said, this can only get worse for you if it continues in any sort of way.

Are you prepared to give up your wife/marriage for this??? This is the only real way to break whatever hold this "friend" has over your wife.

From what you posted, you have a chance to turn things around before it is way beyond your control.

You don't really need to gather evidence because what you have is already enough to see where things are going.

I would draw a line in the sand over this issue but you have to be very sure this is the hill to die on for you.

There is no compromise in this situation with your wife - there can be no "phone/text" friends. She has to give up 100% and be totally open with you with her phone/calls/text/apps, etc.

Good luck.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

I want to fill in a couple things I left out of the original posting. She went for the weekend under the pretense of running a race with the man and his wife. I confirmed through his wife's Facebook page that she had registered for the race. So, initially she was going to be there. Also, this was a long weekend as my wife stayed 4 nights. She claims that 3 of those nights there were joined by another woman who I do not know. I confirmed that that woman did run the race, but have been unable to confirm how many nights she stayed. 

Our Marriage prior to this was good, busy life with three young children. We started marriage counseling about a year prior to resolve some re-occurring arguments. We had completed counseling and were just going in for monthly check up appointments. In many ways we have become closer through this, but he has not been cut off permanently.

I also have been working with an individual counselor during this time. My counselor feels there has been an emotional affair. Her take is that my wife is looking to this guy as more of a father figure and for validation and not romance. We both believe that this guy has other motives. Just a friend would not behave the way he has. My wife states that she should not have to give up a friend because there was nothing romantic going on. She can't understand why I am mad at him for the part he played. She says I'm trying to control her. She has flat out said that she will not stop being friends with him when I have asked that of her. 

I've been reluctant to contact his wife. My thinking is that if I contact her and create havoc in his household, it won't solve any of the problems in my marriage. He may back off for a period of time, maybe forever, but that doesn't fix things for me. I've been trying to put my energy into identifying what needs aren't being met in the marriage. I understand I can't meet every need, but I want to fill the ones I can so they aren't outsourced. I do like the idea of baiting him into contacting her by talking to his wife. Also, I'm pretty sure he has already shored things up with his wife so she won't take anything I say seriously. 

Some of this stuff can be dismissed, but I have a hard time overlooking the deleted tests, secret hour long phone calls that discuss me and the marriage, and the way he responded (or didn't) to me when I texted him to leave my wife alone (made 5 attempts to call him before texting). I think most guys with good intentions would have backed off at that point.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Your wife maybe looking for validation from him as a father figure.
What was or is her relationship with her father. The question is what is
he looking for. From your earlier post it sounds like he is trying to make 
himself look like the better option for her. He is married with four kids
and he would have to pay if a divorce happened. Are you more concerned
with creating havoc in his relationship or keeping yours. Your wife is not 
being truthful to you, If everything was innocent what is she hiding things for.
How did you find out about the other woman running a race. On your own or
did your wife tell you. Your wife should have told you about everything if 
she is not trying to hide something. I still think you should tell his wife and if
it destroys their so called friendship better than your marriage. It sounds like 
your wife is way to close to this man. I still think he is trying to set your wife 
up for some type of relationship. (PA) He talked about your dark side and everything
else. Your marriage and counseling or what ever is not his business. If everything is
innocent then have your wife call him on speaker phone and tell him to stay out 
of your marriage. You posted that you and her have been going to counseling 
all ready. That is between you and your wife not him!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

My feeling is as soon as their is lying about the opposite sex your marriage is on life support.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You REALLY need to tell his wife, esp. indicate what he was talking to her about on that phone call. Play her the tape so that it isn't a he said/she said type of thing (especially if he has already warned her). He is grooming your wife for sure -- trying to get knock her feelings down about you. YOUR IC was correct and the MC was wrong -- it IS an EA. No contact at all, tell his wife. You wife has ALREADY lied to you, so don't accept what she says unless you can corroborate it.


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## SofaKingWeToddId (Feb 7, 2013)

vincere7799 said:


> I want to fill in a couple things I left out of the original posting. She went for the weekend under the pretense of running a race with the man and his wife. I confirmed through his wife's Facebook page that she had registered for the race. So, initially she was going to be there. Also, this was a long weekend as my wife stayed 4 nights. She claims that 3 of those nights there were joined by another woman who I do not know. I confirmed that that woman did run the race, but have been unable to confirm how many nights she stayed.
> 
> Our Marriage prior to this was good, busy life with three young children. We started marriage counseling about a year prior to resolve some re-occurring arguments. We had completed counseling and were just going in for monthly check up appointments. In many ways we have become closer through this, but he has not been cut off permanently.
> 
> ...


I don't know if your wife is having an affair or not. However, after reading 100's of threads you see familiar patterns emerge and your marriage has a lot of red flags. I did a lot of things wrong when I was dealing with my wife's close friendship with a co-worker. If I could go back in time I would take much stronger action and save myself years of doubt and pain. 

You will see it posted here that you have to be willing to end your relationship to save it. If you back down from her ending all contact with this guy you are going to be in for a bad time. Think of it this way, why would you want to be married to someone that has so little regard for you she won't end a supposed platonic friendship because it makes you really uncomfortable? That's pretty f'd up right? She says she only cares about him as a friend, but his friendship is more important than your marriage? That's f'd up!

And just to be clear, she is right that you can't control her. However, you can control what you are willing to put up with. If your boundary is no contact with this guy, then tell her any further contact will result in you speaking with a divorce attorney. (You can't bluff on this). She can decide what she wants to do, but you won't put up with it any more. 

(You should really fire the MC because I don't think they know anything about infidelity).


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

I think you are being completely reasonable. It’s not as though you don’t have reason to be uncomfortable. The fact that she deleted texts, and lied are huge red flags. I have good female friends from work that I talk to sometimes outside of work, texting etc. and if my wife says, “no more”, it’s OVER. Those opposite sex friendships exist because she allows them to. Same with men she may talk to. If I tell her I’m uncomfortable with them, she would shut them down immediately. We respect each other and our marriage far more than any of those other relationships. It’s not even a contest. The fact that your wife is putting up such a fight says this is likely an EA. Them talking about your marriage and her denying that conversation is a huge indicator of that as well. Also, This guy is toxic. You have made it clear that he needs to leave your wife alone and he is still sniffing around. That is your WIFE. That word has immense weight. He needs to respect that. The fact that he hasn’t done that says he is valuing her friendship far more than he should be. That’s a huge red flag. Don’t let up. Tell her you love her and you feel the relationship with this guy threatens your relationship with her and that is NOT ok. She needs to understand how it makes you feel.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

TELL HIS WIFE! Your wife is disrespecting you! If for no other reason than that you have valid grounds to walk away and leave those two lovebirds to have their way. He is 15 years older so he won't be worth a damn in a short while and she will be on her own. Let me tell you, brother, that unless you have total communication, respect, love, and trust between the two of you........you don't have anything worth saving. Cut her loose unless she gets her **** together and is committed to the relationship.......Not some old fogie..........


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I've never liked the term "work spouse." I know a few people here giggle about it, but off the net every time I've heard this "joke" problems arose in either one or both marriages. Some were affairs, some were just inappropriate familiarity, but I have yet to encounter one which didn't hurt a marriage.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

There are zero red flags. To me, red flags are curious things which can be taken either way. None of these exist in your post. 

Everything you wrote is terrible and doesn't get better. She texts him on hidden apps, calls him for hours, deletes text for storage, deletes them again, sends 40 pics, won't let you read texts, talks to him after you have set multiple boundaries, fights with you and then calls him about the fights. Then she played the "OMG, you are controlling" trump card to make you back off. 

I'd promptly ask the wife if she knew your spouse came over when she was out of town.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

I feel like the purpose of telling the wife what I know is vindictive. I'm not sure it will really help the underlying reason I am in this mess. This has all happened over a 4 month period. We were fighting like cats and dogs about this. I had many great nights where I couldn't sleep all night. Our counselor suggested that my wife tell me when she communicated with the man. My wife thought it was controlling but agreed. Over the next month she told me about a couple texts he sent. I asked what they were about and she would give me a summery. It still made me mad that he continued to fish to make sure she was available after knowing what was going on and how I felt about it. I mostly felt sad that she still accepted communication. So, I finally asked if I could see the texts. She said that was invading her privacy. That there was nothing bad in the texts, but she was not going to show me. Then a day later she said the reason she didn't want to show me was because she accidently deleted the text and she didn't want to tell me that because it would look bad. That led to me freezing her out emotionally for the next three days which really upset her on a deep level. My individual counselor has said, and I agree, that I basically need to not do that. That is need to be the best husband that I can be until I decide I don't want to be the husband anymore. My wife knows where I stand. After that last text the marriage counselor suggested that she temporarily break off all communication with the guy. She started crying in counseling when that was suggested and was noncommittal. As we walked out she said that she was crying because she felt controlled. It took another week before she agreed to break off communication and we sent that text to him together. He sent a short polite response that he understood. 

For me though it can't be temporary. It needs to be forever. My plan has been to work on our marriage and use the communication break to not fight about him and work on strengthening the relationship. Obviously, that is kicking the can down the road. However, when she asks to begin communicating with him again that is when I plan to draw the line in the sand. She's a little delusional in thinking she can keep the friendship by establishing new boundaries. She thinks that she should be able to go out for the same race this year and it will be ok as long as the guys wife is there. Nope. 

Side note: I asked my counselor and the MC if I was controlling, both said no. I also took some online quizzes that agreed. So the controlling assertion is BS.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

Wow, she puts even more value into this thing than I thought. Breaking down crying when asked to pit a stop to it pretty intense. This must crush you. Does your wife tell you she loves you? Do you believe her? Surely she has now acknowledged this is a full blown EA right? It’s glaringly obvious.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

She deleted the texts and refuses to let you recover them. She spent 4 nights at his house without his wife present. She gets pissed when you call her out. I'd bet they're having a full blown physical affair. If there was nothing incriminating in those texts she'd have let you see them to clear her own name and reassure you she's being honest.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

Yes, that was my point regarding the texts, that with all the strife we both were/have been going through that she would have shown me the texts to make the arguing stop. Unless, they would cause more problems, which I think me reading them would. She does say she loves me and I believe her. I think the marriage counselor saying that it was not an emotional affair gave her footing to feel justified in keeping the friend. I'm pretty sure it's not a PA. The call was an hour long and it covered the whole gammit. Actually, after listening to the call, the lack of any PA indication is the only thing I liked about the call. That, and having concrete evidence that she lied and that the relationship was totally inappropriate.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

She does not acknowledge it being anything inappropriate except for the phone call, which she claims was a one time deal. I don't believe that for a minute. I think the most useful advice so far is to find another marriage counselor. I intent on letting her pick the person. I have sat through too many sessions thinking, "why can't you see what she is doing?". Our MC seems to be caught up on my wife reporting no physical attraction. She seems to take her word for stuff, when my wife has already demonstrated she is fully willing to lie.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

How are you going to make sure she does not get a burner phone to call him.
She seems to not want to end this relationship to simply stop. Why do you think she
will not try and communicate some other way. Is she going to let you have access to her phone,
e mails and everything else? If she cried and still does not understand why this is not a good friendship
(TOXIC) where do you draw the line. How do you plan on getting her to realize this and that your marriage
is between you and her. That stuff was probably in the deleted texts. I wish you luck but be cautious.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> Talk to the guy's wife. Don't warn your wife before you do it or she will warn him and he will tell his wife you are crazy. I have a feeling she will be surprised to find out your wife stayed at her house while she was away at work.


THIS is what you need to do,


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

Well it sounds like that was a big swing and a miss on behalf of the MC. At least your wife openly professes her love for you. does she also acknowledge that she is hurting you? I hope this temporary break from communication helps her realize she is better off without this interloper in her marriage and YOU are the only man she needs a connection with.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

More context, she is a 41 year old homemaker, and has been talking about her sense of identity for over a year now. That is one topic that led us to MC in the first place. We have been making changes to try to remedy that. In my research on this I think she resembles what Ester Peril talks about when people cheat to find themselves or to run from themselves. Like I said before, this isn't like her. I am an investigator professionally for law enforcement. My BS meter is pretty good. I haven't picked up on anything like this in the past and have trusted her, and her me completely. I think the marriage counselor isn't very intuitive. I've had coworkers like that that just believe everything people say. Luckily this guy is 500 miles away which mitigates or at least slows down a sexual affair. I think she just sees a really good friend, but I see a predator.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

vincere7799 said:


> I feel like the purpose of telling the wife what I know is vindictive.


There's nothing vindictive about protecting your marriage.

Don't fall for that. It's crap just like the 'controlling' issue.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

vincere7799 said:


> *I think she just sees a really good friend,* but I see a predator.


If you believe this you're being naive.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Something tells me GRANDPA will be back soon. I see a predator as well.
How are you going to verify no other type of contact. GRANDPA could arrange
a meeting close by. She may say she is going out for something and see him.
I see from reading your posts there is a lot going on in your marriage.
If you have an argument and she gets upset who is she going to call?
You will never be able to solve the other problems what ever they are
with GRANDPA in the picture. She may just sees him as a friend and 
the only one she can talk to. I have no doubt the stuff in the texts was
about you and your marriage, how she feels. (HE JUST DOES NOT UNDERSTAND
ME, HE WILL NOT LISTEN, I FEEL SO AND SO ETC) Check for other types of 
communication. After all you know she is able to lie to your face.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

I've done a search for burner phones and continue to. I'm working on the letter to his wife right now.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Has she given you access to her phone, laptop etc. 
Is she going to sign the letter also? I know she sent him a text but I think 
a call on speaker phone with you present, her telling him to stay away
may be more effective. I just get the feeling she will not let what ever 
they have go away for some reason. I still think he wants it to go on 
as well.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thanks for the comments, it makes me feel like all her accusations of be acting "crazy" are BS. I'm not an abusive man, I don't beat, and I have never cheated. Based on my childhood I thought those two factors made all the difference. I've woken up to the fact that there is much more to that in a marriage.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

OP

Do you consider your marriage to be in trouble? Does she?

Why would she risk your marriage and family for someone who is just a friend?

Why would she get so emotional?

Some people are very stubborn and will resist to the end over being 'controlled' and others just use 'controlling' as an excuse to continue with sketchy behavior.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

vincere7799 said:


> She promises that she will not discuss out marriage or me with this guy. A couple days later I set up a recorder in the kitchen. I record the guy calling her. *The call does not appear on the phone bill. * During the call she discusses out marriage, me, I can deduce that he doesn't like me, talks about my dark side, jokes about "if anything happens to her at least he knows what happened". I confront my wife about this call and she initially denies it until I say it was recorded. I didn’t hear anything romantic occurring on the phone call which is a plus.


She has a burner.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

As an investigator you know unless someone admits they have a problem
first (GRANDPAS ATTRACTION TO HER) then they cannot solve it. EXAMPLE-
If someone drinks a lot but says they can control it, but has a lot of DWI
then how do they get help unless they see the problem. Your wife has not admitted
doing anything wrong and does not see how this is affecting her marriage. She 
just says you are controlling her!!


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

Her mother was and is very controlling. I've known this for some time. My wife probably has some lo level PTSD against being controlled. I try to navigate around it carefully.


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

She was likely using an app.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

@vincere7799
How has your sex life been through all this? Is she distant?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I wish we could round up all the guys on this forum alone who heard "He's just a friend!" "You're being controlling!" "You invaded my privacy!" and had their wives cry when told they couldn't "be friends" with a man who it later was revealed they were, in fact, screwing.

Also, I was a WW in my first marriage. Most of my AP's were actually my friends. You could listen to my phone conversations with them for years and never hear anything sexual or even flirty. We kept that reserved for when we saw each other. Outside of when we were actually together for sex we were friends who talked about our days, our families, our friends, what was new on the evening news, recipes, and so on.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Regret and healing begins when you admit doing something wrong.
She still sees nothing wrong with what she did and probably will do again.
You love your wife a great deal I can tell, but you are not he mother
you are her husband. You do not appear controlling at all.You recognize 
he is a predator (GRANDPA) But does she recognize IT!!


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## vincere7799 (Mar 2, 2018)

Our sex life picked up about a month before the trip and actually has been solid since. I know that is something that can be a bad sign just as much as no sex.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

vincere7799 said:


> She was likely using an app.


App or burner...

makes no difference. She was going outside of her agreement to not speak to him.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Malaise said:


> There's nothing vindictive about protecting your marriage.
> 
> Don't fall for that. It's crap just like the 'controlling' issue.


 This^

The accusations of you being controlling is absolute, utter gaslighting Bull****. You need to tell her she can carry on with Boss Geritol all she wants, she just can't do it as your wife. The enforce that boundary. Personally, I'd have her served and give her until the divorce would be finalized that you are her #1 and that she is remorseful. She screwed him when she was up there for 4 days, don't kid yourself any differently. After she's served the papers if she has any interest in reconciling with you and you want to (but why?) then you have her take a polygraph to prove her innocence. Also, have her sign a post nup. You may want to go so far as to complete the divorce and make her compete with other potential dates to win your love back. This could also help establish a new relationship since she is murdering the one you are in.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Voice of reason here.

She banged him every which way possible for 4 days!!!


She will go underground or stop all comunication because you played your cards too soon. Any chance of catching her red handed is greatly deminished!

If you don't mind being married to a lying cheater then continue on .


I would demand her phone to recover text or file for divorce.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> This^
> 
> The accusations of you being controlling is absolute, utter gaslighting Bull****. You need to tell her she can carry on with Boss Geritol all she wants, she just can't do it as your wife. The enforce that boundary. Personally, I'd have her served and give her until the divorce would be finalized that you are her #1 and that she is remorseful. She screwed him when she was up there for 4 days, don't kid yourself any differently. After she's served the papers if she has any interest in reconciling with you and you want to (but why?) then you have her take a polygraph to prove her innocence. Also, have her sign a post nup. You may want to go so far as to complete the divorce and make her compete with other potential dates to win your love back. This could also help establish a new relationship since she is murdering the one you are in.


YEP!!!!!

Did I read right, that not only did your wife stay with this man while his wife was away, but there was also ANOTHER woman there too?? Holy HELL, why arent you beating feet to tell the poor wife??

So you are an investigator, eh? I think maybe your radar gets fuzzy too close to home. You are being naive in telling yourself that she has not had sex with this man. Your wife spending ANY amount of nights away from you with another man, WITHOUT HIS WIFE, is by itself a divorce-able offense. This man is NOT a friend of your marriage, therefore has no business in your lives. Your wife whining about you trying to control her is classic cheater script 101, read through almost any thread here in the Coping With Infidelity area. This is the cheating woman's favorite line to throw at their husband when he is starting to figure things out and sniff around. The reasons you stated that you two started MC point to her cheating as well. She is prioritizing this man over her husband and her marriage. 

Everything about your situation is wrong. 100%.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

*Controlling*:

Controlling is not ONE act, it is a *pattern* of behaviour. Typically it means using anger or guilting the other person to get your way. There is some ultimate threat, overt or implied -- it could be the threat of violence, or a threat to take the children away, or to cut off financial support. (Or sometimes, the threat of suicide). And there is the attempt to isolate the victim, not from ONE friend, but from ALL their sources of support. Usually there is belittling or ridicule, an attempt to make the victim feel small. 

It does not sound as if your wife feels afraid of you.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

vincere7799 said:


> I've done a search for burner phones and continue to. I'm working on the letter to his wife right now.


She does not need to be using a burner. She can be using Skype, Messenger, WhatsApp, IMO, Google Voice and a hundred other apps to talk. 

If she is on Android search through her phone for presently installed apps. Then look at the Google Store Library for what has ever been installed. I have seen cheaters install and uninstall apps to keep convos on the down low. 

Another neat little cheater trick is to have a shared email account and keep one message in constant 'draft' status. Nothing every actually sent, just make plans back and forth.


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## SofaKingWeToddId (Feb 7, 2013)

How's it going @vincere7799?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

vincere7799 said:


> She has flat out said that she will not stop being friends with him when I have asked that of her.


This is the death nail for your marriage.
She has chosen her AP over you





vincere7799 said:


> I've been reluctant to contact his wife. My thinking is that if I contact her and create havoc in his household, it won't solve any of the problems in my marriage. He may back off for a period of time, maybe forever, but that doesn't fix things for me.


So you don't think she needs to know that her husband is a cheater and potentually exposing her to all sorts of STI's?




vincere7799 said:


> I've been trying to put my energy into identifying what needs aren't being met in the marriage. I understand I can't meet every need, but I want to fill the ones I can so they aren't outsourced. I do like the idea of baiting him into contacting her by talking to his wife. Also, I'm pretty sure he has already shored things up with his wife so she won't take anything I say seriously.


How about identifying the need that you wife shouldn't be having sex with another man?
How about identifying the need that you should be talking with a lawyer and starting your divorce process.

You can sick your head in the sand all you want.
You can say that you are the cause of all the issues.

Explain how that's working out for you?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You don’t need to write a letter to his wife. Simply state that you confronted her about a possible affair and her first action was to delete their text history.

Facts don’t lie.


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