# First post - having issues with priorities and activities



## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

My first post here so please bear with me. Some background: A few years ago, I had to get a MS degree for work. This was a finite two-year commitment but has been done for a year now. During that time, I had A LOT of difficulty balancing work, school, business travel, two kids, and at the time, a wife with an insatiable sexual appetite.



Fast forward to today. My wife has told me that she can't depend on me for happiness anymore and has focused most of her "non-family" energy towards the gym and towards becoming a fitness instructor. She is still an amazing woman and a wonderful mother and for all intents and purposes, she loves me on a platonic level. 



Me, on the other hand - now that the MS program has finished, she told me I was totally self involved during the program and she had to suffer through it and effectively lost her sex drive as a result.



I'm trying to make amends but no matter what I do, she literally has NO interest in sex. She says its ok if she just lies there while I go at it. when we do have sex, she'll remark afterwards, "are you happy now?" She also knows that whenever I try to get close, it will lead to an advance, so while we're sitting together or whatever, she'll comment on, "well, I'd ask you to massage my quads but I know where your hands will end up" or if she's tired and she lays her head down on my lap, she'll say, "I could hear your brain wanting to push me down there..."



The thing is, she pushes away. When I comment on how good she looks or how she's really beautiful, she'll rebuff and say, "thank you, but you're still not getting any" or something like that. 



So, I've resigned myself to a sexless life. I think all the time she spends at the gym has changed how she looks at me. Additionally, though she is still a great mom to our kids, by the time we spend time together, she's too busy practicing her workouts or stretching. 



She frankly admits that she masturbates to get to sleep and that she'd rather do that than get messy with me.



Any advice from the cognoscenti here?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

I should clarify and say that her gym routine has priority over my workouts. At best, my schedules limit me to a single long run or ride per week. She, on the other hand, gets gym time every day, sometimes three times a day. So yes, she has boundless energy during her workouts.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I swear, in my next life I'm coming back as a fitness instructor. Absolutely the best solution to having time to work out and stay fit!

Your wife doesn't sound very nice to you .

Have you guys tried any marriage counseling?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

She seems to have put all her sexual frustration from when you were too busy with school into working out and has lost attraction to you. Her needs weren't met and now she is making you "pay" for it, or at least that is how it's coming across to me. 

How much quality time do you spend together each week?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

We did a few years after we got married but not recently. She clarified this several arguments ago - basically, when I was in my MS program, i had no time for her and she had to resort to the gym to de-stress. We had talked about what would happen when the MS program is done and we go back to 'normal' and she said that we reach it when we reach it.



Now, she's all about her fitness. What can I do but support her when she supported me while I was getting my MS? What can I do but be happy now that she's finally happy? Without me, of course. 



I hate the gym. I hate working out indoors and not going places. I hate "group fitness mentality" and getting a "group high." I get more out of a 22-mile ride going all out as fast as I can go. I get more out of a 10-mile run where I'm pacing myself and can watch the scenery pass by. 



She HATES to run and she doesn't ride. I've gone once to a class with her and HATED every moment. I don't like choreography during workouts. I don't want to sync my moves to the music.



I think her fitness defines her now. She wears her gym clothes ALL DAY. She's damn sexy too...but when i'm home, she quickly changes to her frumpy pajamas and she's too tired or needs to stretch or needs rest foe her workout tomorrow...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> *She also knows that whenever I try to get close, it will lead to an advance*, so while we're sitting together or whatever, she'll comment on, "well, I'd ask you to massage my quads but I know where your hands will end up" or if she's tired and she lays her head down on my lap, she'll say, "I could hear your brain wanting to push me down there..."


So, is she right? Are you only physically affectionate with her when you want sex?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Anonymous07 said:


> She seems to have put all her sexual frustration from when you were too busy with school into working out and has lost attraction to you. Her needs weren't met and now she is making you "pay" for it, or at least that is how it's coming across to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's what it feels like. 



Define quality time. Does me sitting on the couch while she's on the floor stretching count as quality time? She doesn't want to sit with me. 



We spend a solid two hours together every Sunday during lunch - we'll drop the kids off at my parents' and we grab lunch. It's not a very comfortable lunch. She talks about the gym and her gym friends. I listen. Nod. Smile. She doesn't care when I talk about work. 



I mean, what else can I talk about? I work 9-10 hrs a day. Then go home. Then Saturdays she works out twice in the morning then goes to farmers market. I spend the day with the kids. Sunday afternoons, that's when she lets me go and work out.



Rinse. Lather. Repeat.


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## bubba29 (Feb 29, 2012)

have you asked her what happened to her sexual attraction to you? what can be done to rekindle things between you? what was your sex life like during your schooling? on a scale of 1-10 in physical appearance what are you....what is she? now is a time for openness and honesty because things are going nowhere fast.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm on mobile right now but to answer questions.



1. My MS program was online so I literally spent every evening for two years working on it. I was very focused on finishing because she said I wasn't paying attention to anything else. I was SO guilt-ridden during the entire two years. Still am.



2. I *did* try to make an advance whenever I felt the mood was appropriate. The thing is, she just wants to be held and occasionally massaged. Wrong signals for me. I have since corrected that. 



3. I'm in excellent shape. My resting heart rate is 41 bpm.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

bubba29 said:


> have you asked her what happened to her sexual attraction to you? what can be done to rekindle things between you? now is a time for openness and honesty because things are going nowhere fast.




I did. She said nothing I did caused it. She said its just natural and that her friends' husbands almost never get sex. 



I told her that it feels like I'm just deadweight and that I'm just in her way. That's seriously what it feels like. My feet are in ger way when she stretches. My blanket is in her way when she sleeps. 



The thing is, I did the MS because I did it for my family and for us. If i could do it all over again and i knew it would separate us like this, then I would have never done it...


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Have you verified she's not cheating?

Silly question. Read the link in my signature. Investigate to rule it out, you can't effectively fight this situation until you know for sure what the situation is.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She resents being neglected for two years, and is punishing you for it now. Was she on-board with your education program, knowing how intense it would be - or not? It's possible that she'll get over it, but now her neglect of you and focus elsewhere is creating resentment in you, no doubt. This could be a downward spiral unless stopped and corrected quickly.

To save your relationship, you may need to be willing to destroy it. Ask her to start MC with you. If not, file for divorce - it may take the nuclear option to get her attention and for her to decide what she really wants for her future.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Sex life during The MS was good. She would initiate, I would initiate. She went through a phase when she only had sex on her mind. I would do what I could to satisfy her, but then I'd have to go back to my studies. I seriously miss those times.



Looks wise she is beyond 11. I'm at 8. I'd improve myself, but I never approached fitness as a way to look good. Looking good results from fitness. I'm also a runner - how many attractive distance runners are there?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

2 years is a long time to keep someone at arm's length. I'd be pretty pissed off too. What's your sense of where she wants to go with the marriage? Is she just getting even or is she completely disconnected?

If she's angry, it might indicate that on some level she still cares. You're going to have to do the heavy lifting to get things back on track. If that means sucking it up and joining the gym instead of going on a ride in order to get some time with her, so be it. Put your game face on and make every effort to enjoy the time with your wife--regardless of where it is.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I can somewhat relate to your wife, my life has been a little similar recently. 

A constant rejection or apathetic spouse first creates a lot of emotional upheaval, unhappiness, loneliness, longing. It starts to erode how you feel about yourself, this person who supposedly loves you above all others has neither time nor energy for you. 

At some point, like a switch, it goes dead and you no longer want that person. A wall goes up and you don't want them passing it any more. Suddenly it's you with the rejection and you with the apathy. 

I don't know how old you guys are but if you are in your 40's I think the timing is problematic. We are in our mid 40's and approaching the 20 years of marriage mark. I'm not even surprised anymore when someone tells me they are getting divorced. Because so many people are. Or having affairs. 

The gym thing is also problematic because it becomes your source of self esteem and the attention you get there becomes first a substitute for and then preferable to the attention of your spouse. I find myself thinking my DH finds me weak and unattractive (due to his lack of attention) but I'm not - look what I can do. Look what these people say. You feel like your spouse ignores your value while others see it. 

Honestly I have seen more than one divorce this year over women who lost their self esteem, regained it at the gym and then decided they did not need a man after all. 

I don't think it's too lat to reverse but it's going to take a sustained effort to overcome on your part and on hers a willingness to be vulnerable to you again.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

I don't think I neglected my wife during the MS program...she may have felt that way, but I gave her as much as i could. 😞 



She was onboard and encouraged me to get the MS much the same way that I encouraged her to find something that she enjoyed.



I haven't ruled out that she is cheating. She spends several hours a day with specific "gym buddies" - all of whom are men and are physically fit. She constantly talks about one of them and voluntarily videotaped him at another gym since he needed assistance.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

PS things seem to be turning around with my DH and I but it has taken a sustained effort on his part to make me feel important to him again.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

My wife and I are in our late 30's. 



She definitely derives get self confidence from the gym and has told me many times how good she feels after and during a workout.



She has already blankly stated that her workouts were a substitute foe me when I was in my MS program. 



I find my wife so attractive and beautiful and strong. I don't think she would list anything like that for me. 



We've gone through several arguments and discussions about our relationship and she keeps thinking that I have low self esteem and that I keep blaming myself and that I don't "man up" or find another outlet.



Just this weekend, she came back from instructors training and she was glowing and happy. I'm not going to take that away from her.


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## bubba29 (Feb 29, 2012)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Sex life during The MS was good. She would initiate, I would initiate. She went through a phase when she only had sex on her mind. I would do what I could to satisfy her, but then I'd have to go back to my studies. I seriously miss those times.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks wise she is beyond 11. I'm at 8. I'd improve myself, but I never approached fitness as a way to look good. Looking good results from fitness. *I'm also a runner - how many attractive distance runners are there?*


you should be aware that what she is attracted may have changed. spending a lot of time in the gym could have caused her to become more attracted to men with more muscle mass. avid runners do not have muscle mass. 

i am someone who loves fitness. my wife hates it. she does nothing and it is really starting to effect her in many ways. there are times i resent her for her lack of effort to upkeep her health and shape. other times, i realize i love her and cannot change her. we make things work.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

There is no way (in my mind at least) that you can go from sexually charged to 'lost her sex drive' altogether. She lost her libido for you.
Somethings going on for sure.

Maybe it's the resentment for being tuned out for 2+ years. For some reason, I'm thinking that's not it. Could be, but my gut is telling me there's more to it.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

She sounds pissed off and resentful. Her action say you ignored me for two years now I'm paying you back. I'm not sure if she will ever forgive you for ignoring her. You should of made time for her. I don't know many men who are too busy for sex. That said if she continues to act like that no matter how much you try and make it up to her then you have to make a decision to stay and be treated like that or leave.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

bubba29 said:


> you should be aware that what she is attracted may have changed. spending a lot of time in the gym could have caused her to become more attracted to men with more muscle mass. avid runners do not have muscle mass.
> 
> i am someone who loves fitness. my wife hates it. she does nothing and it is really starting to effect her in many ways. there are times i resent her for her lack of effort to upkeep her health and shape. other times, i realize i love her and cannot change her. we make things work.




100% know this. I think her ideal has changed. Also Fozzy recommended that I join the gym, but deep down, I'm a runner and a rider - my spirit would be further broken when I have to be indoors. 



I want to be with her. Yes. I just think the gym is her palace and she owns it. I want her to have that feeling that she so craves. 



I won't keep up with her during her classes I much the same way she wont even attempt to run or ride with me. 



I want to initate sex and a feeling of intimacy again but I think I've just lost it. she says she tried for two years with me, but I KNOW that I still had sex with her and that we put aside time for sex and that I pushed off studying and my workouts so we could have sex or so she could work out.



There's no chance she would adjust her workouts around me. 



She said that one of the reasons she didn't want to have sex with me is because the people at the gym would smell the sex on her...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> She said that one of the reasons she didn't want to have sex with me is because the people at the gym would smell the sex on her...


Ummmm



You really need to join this gym and make yourself visible.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> 100% know this. I think her ideal has changed. Also Fozzy recommended that I join the gym, but deep down, I'm a runner and a rider - my spirit would be further broken when I have to be indoors.


If you love her and want to be with her, I would join the gym and go with her. It will take a lot of time to get over the resentment and she needs to see that you are prioritizing your marriage. I'm an out-door person myself, but if my husband was in the gym a lot, I would at least go along with him some of the time.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Ummmm
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There's a catch - both of can't be in class at the same time because of our kids. Also, her classes are during the day when I'm at work. I'm the sole income earner for the family. 



If I join the gym, it's not like we'd take classes at the same time. 



Typically, one works out while the other is with the kids or doing family activities. She just had an easier time doing this since the kids are in school and I'm at work when she does her gym classes. 



She tells me to make time for myself to exercise.



Ok. But making time for myself involves family and her, which is PRIORITY, then my workouts.



I want to surround myself with them as much as I can, but her ideal for "me time" is lifting weights or yoga with no husband and no kids. 



Even when I work out, I'll bring my son along so he rides his bike while I run. I want my daughter to do the same but she still has a few years to go before she gets that endurance.



So - if I join the gym, it won't do any good. Her gym friends won't be there. She wont be there. I'd just be by myself. What good is that?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

intheory said:


> OP,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No she doesn't work. She does some part time stuff at home but she wants to become an instructor so she'll get more gym benefits as a result...along with more time with the other instructors...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> My first post here so please bear with me. Some background: A few years ago, I had to get a MS degree for work. This was a finite two-year commitment but has been done for a year now. During that time, I had A LOT of difficulty balancing work, school, business travel, two kids, and at the time, a wife with an insatiable sexual appetite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reading these posts, the thing that always gets me is how the OP describes how their spouse treats them like crap but the OP just loves their spouse SO MUCH!

How exactly does one "love", "need" or "can't live without" someone like this?

You've expressed your dissatisfaction, she doesn't care. Your happiness is of no interest to her. You're willing to do whatever it takes; she's not willing to lift a finger. She openly mocks you. Maybe she's banging the boys at the gym; maybe not. Who cares, you're not going to be happy in the future either way.

Tell her you're done. File for divorce. There's a tiny chance that this will wake her up. At a minimum, she'll realize that you're not a spineless wimp. Better yet, you'll realize you're not a spineless wimp. Then you can work out more and find yourself someone who actually cares about you.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Wow. She sounds horrible. Has she always acted like a brat? My suggestion 
If she won't have sex with you tell her to find another place to sleep. Them make a number of female friends and do all sorts of fun things with them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Sex life during The MS was good. She would initiate, I would initiate. She went through a phase when she only had sex on her mind. I would do what I could to satisfy her, but then I'd have to go back to my studies. I seriously miss those times.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks wise she is beyond 11. I'm at 8. I'd improve myself, but I never approached fitness as a way to look good. Looking good results from fitness. I'm also a runner - how many attractive distance runners are there?


If you're an 8, there's a bunch of 7's just *dying* to meet you. I would never marry an 11, I don't know how anybody could end up well adjusted with everyone drooling over them their whole life.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I want to initate sex and a feeling of intimacy again but I think I've just lost it. she says she tried for two years with me, but I KNOW that I still had sex with her and that we put aside time for sex and that I pushed off studying and my workouts so we could have sex or so she could work out.


Is she re-writing the history of the last two years to place all the blame on you?

This story is eerily similar to the one of my BIL's brother and wife. It turned out to be a full blown affair with a guy at the gym. 

As someone previously said, investigate to eliminate that possibility.

Good luck!


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Wow. She sounds horrible. Has she always acted like a brat? My suggestion
> 
> 
> If she won't have sex with you tell her to find another place to sleep. Them make a number of file friends and do all sorts of fun things with them
> ...




The thing is, she's NOT horrible. Not even close. Literally.



There's just no desire to want sex. 



She is a great mother. A wonderful friend. A great cook. She's a better person every day and I admire her for everything she squeezes in every day.



It just feels like she doesn't want my physical touch. She doesn't want to squeeze me in her busy day.



It's a horrible feeling. Knowing that she's probably only doing this because of my MS program and what I put her through, but then, having moved on and found a new source of happiness and desire.



I leave for work every day at 6:30 and get home by 6. She has dinner ready and the kids have homework done...and she spent time at the gym and getting groceries and volunteering at the school...



She had time for everything else. 



She says we spend plenty of time together on Sundays, but sometimes she foes on yoga workshops or has to attend a preview class with her gym friends...


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## bubba29 (Feb 29, 2012)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> There's a catch - both of can't be in class at the same time because of our kids. Also, her classes are during the day when I'm at work. I'm the sole income earner for the family.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


get the workouts you want in. take it seriously. maybe she will connect with you if you take fitness as serious as she does regardless of what it is. instead of long cardio outside, get some sprint work in. shorter workouts but still outside and still strenuous.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

How often does she say "I love you"?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Lila said:


> So if she's working out while you're at work, then what do you do when you get home from work?




I finish with the kids and their homework and we have dinner and then i give my daughter a bath and put them to sleep. In that order. Every night. 



When the kids are asleep, I'll do dishes and iron clothes. While I'm doing dishes, she's on the computer or practicing her workout routine. 



When I'm done, I'll sit on the couch and we watch a show on Netflix. I'll be on the couch while she's against the wall stretching or on the floor with her foam roller. 



Then she goes to sleep because she needs her rest. I'll often stay awake a little bit longer. Sometimes I just sit there and wonder why I'm even necessary...


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> How often does she say "I love you"?




Frequently. With meaning? Most likely.



That's just it though. On one level, I know she loves me. She just doesn't want me.



She wants nothing to do with me. I think she's ok with just knowing that I love her.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Lila said:


> Fitwife -
> 
> You don't have to delve too far into the thread but take some time to read the comments posted by some of the women on this thread:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/253361-why-women-leave-men-they-love.html
> ...


:iagree:

My husband has been consumed with looking for another job in the last few months and it has made me very resentful. We still have sex, but I need more than that, just as many/most women do. 

I suggested joining the gym because I think it's so important to do things together. You both need quality time together to help nurture the marriage. You say you go to lunch every Sunday together without the kids, which is great. Why not switch things up this next weekend? Instead of the usual lunch, go to a different fun restaurant, have a picnic, do something different. 

How old are your kids? If they're in bed by a certain time, use that alone time after they're asleep to have some good quality time. Talk about your goals/dreams for your marriage/family, current events, movies, good memories, your dating days with her, etc. Don't just talk about work(bad habit!). If she starts talking about the gym, switch the topic to something else. There is always more to talk about than just work and the mundane every day things(stay away from talking about parenting or other 'boring' things). Try to date your wife.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Fitness can become an obsession for some people, especially those who went into it with a hole in their lives to fill. And having an obsession of any kind can completely dampen your sex drive.

However, given that she has a bunch of male gym buddies, I would consider this a red flag.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think things are over for your marriage. Even when men try to do what's right and try to make more money for the family, if any sacrifice by her is necessary, some women are just not on board. They want what they want when they want it, irregardless of how practical it is. I would absolutely kill for a wife with high sex drive, I think I would have sacrificed the master's degree for her, even if she started *****ing about not having enough money.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I disagree that joining her gym is the answer. 

Rather the long slow road of winning her back over and making her feel important. It is difficult once the wall goes up. Behind the wall it doesn't hurt anymore because you have shut that person down instead of them shutting you down. 

Making yourself vulnerable again is difficult. There is risk involved. She's basically saying she no longer needs or wants you anymore because when she did need and want you - you weren't there. 

Of course that might not be your side of the story in the least. You can love and want her and think the world of her - but she can't feel what you feel. Your story and her story are differing where it's important. 

Her comments about sex lead me to believe she feels you only think of her as a toy to get off with. I'm not saying you do feel that way towards her, mind you. But her comments seem to suggest sex would not be an equal exchange, you would get what you wanted and she would not. Whatever that is.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> She said that one of the reasons she didn't want to have sex with me is because the people at the gym would smell the sex on her...


... and be happy for her.
... and be jealous of her lover.
... and be upset that she broke their no sex pact.

Sorry I just can't make sense of that comment.

Next topic.
I hate fitness instructors. Main reason I go to the gym/pool so early in the morning. To avoid being asked to do favors for them. To avoid the dirty looks and the bossing. 

Finally you are right stay out of her palace if you need a new hobby (and you don't) take up sporting clays. Let them smell the gunpowder on her.
MN


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> The thing is, she's NOT horrible. Not even close. Literally.


She might be a great friend, or a great mother, but she's a terrible wife.

Is the following the kind of thing that a "great person" would say?

_"She says its ok if she just lies there while I go at it. when we do have sex, she'll remark afterwards, "are you happy now?" She also knows that whenever I try to get close, it will lead to an advance, so while we're sitting together or whatever, she'll comment on, "well, I'd ask you to massage my quads but I know where your hands will end up" or if she's tired and she lays her head down on my lap, she'll say, "I could hear your brain wanting to push me down there..."

The thing is, she pushes away. When I comment on how good she looks or how she's really beautiful, she'll rebuff and say, "thank you, but you're still not getting any" or something like that." _

The woman down the street might be a good person and a great mother, but that doesn't do you much good.

Stop beating yourself up about the MS. She was on board, she supported the decision. She's rewriting history to make herself feel better about the current situation. 

If she was a great person and a great friend, she'd either try to repair the marriage or say "honey, I'm sorry that I have lost my desire for you, especially after you've made such sacrifices for me and the family. How can we end the marriage while with as little heartbreak and misery as possible."


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I finish with the kids and their homework and we have dinner and then i give my daughter a bath and put them to sleep. In that order. Every night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where does the part come in that makes her an awesome mother?

Who does the bulk of the housework?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I think she's ok with just knowing that I love her.


Then it's time to make her wonder about that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> There's a catch - both of can't be in class at the same time because of our kids. Also, her classes are during the day when I'm at work. I'm the sole income earner for the family.


So she’s not in the gym when you are not at work? This must mean that she’s at home when you are.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Housework is mostly her. She cooks and goes shopping and makes sure the house is in order. She manages finances. I do dishes, spot clean, and help out where needed. 



Just to clarify - she goes to the gym while I'm at work. Only sometimes does she go to the gym while I'm at home.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Housework is mostly her. She cooks and goes shopping and makes sure the house is in order. She manages finances. I do dishes, spot clean, and help out where needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to clarify - she goes to the gym while I'm at work. Only sometimes does she go to the gym while I'm at home.


So what do you both do when you're home together?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Anonymous07 said:


> So what do you both do when you're home together?




I already answered this but here we go again - when all chores are done, we'll watch something on Netflix. I'll be on the couch and she'll be stretching against the wall or on the floor with her foam roller. She doesn't like sitting on the couch with me because she doesn't want any sexual advance.



Lately, she's been on the computer just checking email or reading facebook. Then she'll just say "watch whatever you want to watch" which means, "I'm not going to be there so you can just do whatever."



She is a great mom. She takes kids to school and works in their classroom. She picks them up. Does homework with them. Takes them to activities.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I finish with the kids and their homework and we have dinner and then i give my daughter a bath and put them to sleep. In that order. Every night.
> 
> 
> 
> When the kids are asleep, I'll do dishes and iron clothes. While I'm doing dishes, she's on the computer or practicing her workout routine.


What clothing are you ironing?



fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> When I'm done, I'll sit on the couch and we watch a show on Netflix. I'll be on the couch while she's against the wall stretching or on the floor with her foam roller.


So get up off the couch and start doing the same things she is doing. Ask her advice on your exercise. The physical exercise will help you snap out of the doldrums you seem to be in. And you asking her for suggestions will be a way to help meet her emotional needs. It's a form of affirmation.

Children do a kind of play where they play side by side and sort of copy what the other one is doing. I don't mean copy every move.. but if one is digging in the sand the other will start to dig. This is the start of how they build relationships. Use this technique with your wife. Get off your bottom and start working out right there in front of the TV while she is doing the same thing.




fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Then she goes to sleep because she needs her rest. I'll often stay awake a little bit longer. Sometimes I just sit there and wonder why I'm even necessary...


Go to sleep when she does. Get up when she does. This builds non-sexual intimacy.

Also look up the "law of attraction". You need to start pumping positive energy into your head.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Lately, she's been on the computer just checking email or reading facebook. Then she'll just say "watch whatever you want to watch" which means, "I'm not going to be there so you can just do whatever."
> .


So, all of the "you need to spend more quality time with your wife" advice can be dispensed with. He's willing, she's not interested.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> 100% know this. I think her ideal has changed. Also Fozzy recommended that I join the gym, but deep down, I'm a runner and a rider - my spirit would be further broken when I have to be indoors.


I get this. I hate gyms. I love running outside as long as I don't have an injury. I won't even run on a treadmill, although I walk on one all day long since I have a treadmill desk and I'm self employed.

Not everyone desires the gym atmosphere.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I already answered this but here we go again - when all chores are done, we'll watch something on Netflix. I'll be on the couch and she'll be stretching against the wall or on the floor with her foam roller. She doesn't like sitting on the couch with me because she doesn't want any sexual advance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She's either a completely unemotional being or getting her needs met somewhere/by someone else . My opinion.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> She might be a great friend, or a great mother, but she's a terrible wife.
> 
> Is the following the kind of thing that a "great person" would say?
> 
> ...


Yah, I don't get it either.

Far be it from me, I was there once too, but I still don't get it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> So, all of the "you need to spend more quality time with your wife" advice can be dispensed with. He's willing, she's not interested.


Oh there is a lot that he can change. He cannot change her. He can change himself and what he is doing. Then she will have to change in response. 

I already gave one suggestion. He needs to stop sitting there and watching TV while she's working out. He, can join her by working out and asking her what he needs to do. After all she is now a fitness trainer. So this will show interest in her... it's called affirmation and emotional intimacy.

He can get off the couch and go to bed at the same time she does. Going to bed together builds emotional intimacy.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Oh there is a lot that he can change. He cannot change her. He can change himself and what he is doing. Then she will have to change in response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks. I'll try this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm still curious. What clothing do you iron every night?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Underwear -- extra heavy starch


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Seriously she wears yoga pants and sweats, so he must like his shirts ironed. I've never had anyone else iron my shirts.


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

Fit,
To me it really looks like your wife is cheating. Really high sex drive and all of a sudden it just stops? Can you just turn off your sex drive completely for an extended period of time? I find it hard to believe that she was able to just turn it off. On top of that she's being very disrespectful to you concerning anything to do with sex.

First, you really need to investigate whether she is having an affair. Second, a marriage without sex is just room-mates. You need to decide if you want to live like that for the rest of your life.


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

He works all day and she stays at home(except for her "workouts")......seems to me she should be doing some of the ironing.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP
She may be a great friend to other men. To you she is clearly not. You're just not willing to accept that yet.
Horrible would be a polite term to use for her....imo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> We spend a solid two hours together every Sunday during lunch - we'll drop the kids off at my parents' and we grab lunch. It's not a very comfortable lunch. She talks about the gym and her gym friends. I listen. Nod. Smile. She doesn't care when I talk about work.


Do you make _any_ effort to _talk_ to her about this interest? You don't have to know everything there is to know about it, nor do you have to share her enthusiasm, to at least show an interest. Ask questions. Delve into this new passion of hers and try to get to know that side of her a little more. 



> I mean, what else can I talk about?


You have no personal interests? No thoughts on politics? Does she? Do you see movies? Like them? Discuss them? Books? Do you read any health articles? Does she? I mean, c'mon...there has to be _something_ you can talk about with each other if you think hard enough. It's easy to be passive in uncomfortable situations, it's easy to just wait until they're over, but it sounds to me like your wife is crying out for your attention. If she really didn't get it for two years, you have a lot of ground to make up for, and it won't be fixed easily. You'll have to be very uncomfortable for probably a while before she starts to heal, but it starts with the one thing she wasn't getting those two years: attention. Your interest. Conversation. Time. 



> I work 9-10 hrs a day. Then go home. Then Saturdays she works out twice in the morning then goes to farmers market. I spend the day with the kids. Sunday afternoons, that's when she lets me go and work out.
> 
> Rinse. Lather. Repeat.


It sounds to me like she no longer feels like a priority.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I'm on mobile right now but to answer questions.
> 
> 1. My MS program was online so I literally spent every evening for two years working on it. I was very focused on finishing because she said I wasn't paying attention to anything else. I was SO guilt-ridden during the entire two years. Still am.


This is a difficult situation. On the one hand, you needed the program/degree. On the other, your wife needed _you_. You can't go back and change what happened, but you can work to change the course you're currently on. 



> 2. I *did* try to make an advance whenever I felt the mood was appropriate. The thing is, she just wants to be held and occasionally massaged. Wrong signals for me. I have since corrected that.


Yeah...this has likely caused a lot of emotional damage. If she was neglected for two years except for when you wanted sex, she likely feels that she can not trust you emotionally. She has a lot of resentment, and understandably so. I wouldn't last two years under those circumstances.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> 2 years is a long time to keep someone at arm's length. I'd be pretty pissed off too. What's your sense of where she wants to go with the marriage? Is she just getting even or is she completely disconnected?
> 
> If she's angry, it might indicate that on some level she still cares. You're going to have to do the heavy lifting to get things back on track. If that means sucking it up and joining the gym instead of going on a ride in order to get some time with her, so be it. Put your game face on and make every effort to enjoy the time with your wife--regardless of where it is.


^This.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I don't think I neglected my wife during the MS program...she may have felt that way, but I gave her as much as i could. &#55357;&#56862;


Unfortunately, "giving her what you could" may not have been enough emotionally. It takes work and time to keep marriages together under normal circumstances. Add in one or both spouses being super busy, and things can get bad very quickly.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> 100% know this. I think her ideal has changed. Also Fozzy recommended that I join the gym, but deep down, I'm a runner and a rider - my spirit would be further broken when I have to be indoors.
> 
> I want to be with her. Yes. I just think the gym is her palace and she owns it. I want her to have that feeling that she so craves.
> 
> ...


You realize there is more to a fulfilling marriage than having sex? If you _only_ took time out of your studies for sex, it's very likely that she could feel used, even if she enjoyed it _then_.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> So, all of the "you need to spend more quality time with your wife" advice can be dispensed with. He's willing, she's not interested.


He may be willing, but he's being extremely passive in how he's approaching their marriage. He's not actually making any _proactive_ effort to rebuild intimacy. The healing must start there, and it must be consistent for her to see that her emotional needs won't be ignored and neglected again.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP
> She may be a great friend to other men. To you she is clearly not. You're just not willing to accept that yet.
> Horrible would be a polite term to use for her....imo
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No one should have to endure two years of emotional neglect and unhappiness in their marriage. Expecting someone who does to come out of it without scars, resentment and emotional damage is naïve. And a bit selfish.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Two things need to happen here:

1) Verify that she's not in an affair

2) Tell her exactly how you feel about the current situation. "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer.

Question becomes, how long do you have to grovel before she forgives you. Next question is how long will you tolerate a crap marriage.

As of today, your spouse sucks ass as a wife.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I would say she is resentful for the fact that she sees you bettering yourself with obtaining a MS and she's just the housewife and mother. She is probably being passive and aggressive and paying you back for what she perceived as your lack of attention. If she's not cheating, court your wife.Give her the attention she is seeking from the guys in the gym. Many husband forget the extra little things they use to do when you were dating. If she is such great shape after working out, those endorphins should kick in and make her even more sexually inclined. Keep in contact with her through out the day with little lovey text that is nonsexual and keep physical contact outside the bedroom. You'd be suprise how many women say that the husband stop courting them once they've been married for awhile.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Sounds like he sucked as a husband for a while, too.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Sounds like he sucked as a husband for a while, too.


Sure. If he made efforts to change for the better and he's putting himself out there to fix the marriage, then she either has to reciprocate or they end the mess. If only one person is trying while the other gives up, then what's left to save?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sure. If he made efforts to change for the better and he's putting himself out there to fix the marriage, then she either has to reciprocate or they end the mess. If only one person is trying while the other gives up, then what's left to save?


No argument there. But it doesn't read to me like he has "put himself" anywhere but on the backburner of their marriage. It reads like he's wallowing in guilt, but doing nothing to actually move forward in their relationship. Like he'd rather just feel bad and leave her be than actually try and make progress. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of emotional heavy lifting on his part to convince her that he really is "back" in their marriage. And unfortunately, the damage that's been done may run more deeply than he realizes. But right now it's up to HIM to fix it.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> No argument there. But it doesn't read to me like he has "put himself" anywhere but on the backburner of their marriage. It reads like he's wallowing in guilt, but doing nothing to actually move forward in their relationship. Like he'd rather just feel bad and leave her be than actually try and make progress. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of emotional heavy lifting on his part to convince her that he really is "back" in their marriage. And unfortunately, the damage that's been done may run more deeply than he realizes. But right now it's up to HIM to fix it.




I do admit that I did suck as a husband for a while. I've groveled. I've apologized. I've changed my ways. Hell, as of today, I've taken a new job that is significantly closer to home so i can be home earlier and be more available. 



I'm 'back' and I've been courting - my way, and I think its not 'her' way. She doesn't like flowers or presents or nice dinners or surprises. She HATES surprises. Always has.



I brought flowers home today and she was like, "what's that for???" I told her I missed her and I want to talk about us tonight.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I do admit that I did suck as a husband for a while. I've groveled. I've apologized. I've changed my ways. Hell, as of today, I've taken a new job that is significantly closer to home so i can be home earlier and be more available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How long has it been since the MS program ended?

Doing it her way is important.

What is her way?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> It sounds to me like she no longer feels like a priority.


Are you serious? You read this story and think that the wife doesn't feel like she's a priority? Do you think that she thinks he's a priority? She doesn't want to spend time with him. It just interferes with gym time. She wants his income and help with the kids in the evenings and Saturdays. That's all she wants out of him.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I've groveled.


Great. Chicks dig it when guys grovel.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> No argument there. But it doesn't read to me like he has "put himself" anywhere but on the backburner of their marriage. *It reads like he's wallowing in guilt*, but doing nothing to actually move forward in their relationship.* Like he'd rather just feel bad and leave her be* than actually try and make progress. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of emotional heavy lifting on his part to convince her that he really is "back" in their marriage. And unfortunately, the damage that's been done may run more deeply than he realizes. But right now it's up to HIM to fix it.


Ok, we agree on the bolded. Wallowing and sitting around feeling bad does not a chick magnet make. A more proactive approach would have been nice.

However, it seems like didn't have as much of a problem when he was in school. I sure looks like she's rewriting history to justify the way she's feeling now. Why she's feeling that way now? I'm not usually paranoid but I'm concerned about the boys at the gym.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fit,

By the way, we know that your wife is a "fitwife" and you're "notsomuch".

She's above an 11 and you're an 8.

She's accomplishing SO much while you bring in all the income and take care of the kids on Saturday.

Consider the possibility that you might actually be as worthy a person as your wife and that your happiness matters as much as hers.

Good luck with the talk.

If she's not having an affair, then your only way out is the soft-180. Read Nueklas's thread.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> Ok, we agree on the bolded. Wallowing and sitting around feeling bad does not a chick magnet make. A more proactive approach would have been nice.
> 
> However, it seems like didn't have as much of a problem when he was in school. I sure looks like she's rewriting history to justify the way she's feeling now. Why she's feeling that way now? I'm not usually paranoid but I'm concerned about the boys at the gym.


He ignored her for 2 years. He only spent time with her to have sex. This kind of treatment is a real turn off.

Since he would not spend time with her, she went out and created a life for herself. Now that he's ready to spend time with her, he wants her to drop her life. He's going to have to convince her that he can be trusted to be emotionally available for her.

Instead of doing things that will show her this, he's sitting on the couch and complaining.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> If she's not having an affair, then your only way out is the soft-180. Read Nueklas's thread.


Please give the steps for what a soft-180 is.


A 180.. basically pulling away from her emotionally would be the last nail in the coffin of this marriage. It will prove to her that he left the marriage a long time ago.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He ignored her for 2 years. He only spent time with her to have sex. This kind of treatment is a real turn off.
> 
> Since he would not spend time with her, she went out and created a life for herself. Now that he's ready to spend time with her, he wants her to drop her life. He's going to have to convince her that he can be trusted to be emotionally available for her.
> 
> Instead of doing things that will show her this, he's sitting on the couch and complaining.


It has yet to be determined if she is cheating or not. If she is not cheating...it sounds like she followed the exact same advice that some of the guys on here would give to a schlub who can't figure out how to make his wife swoon.

She must have bought a copy of the MWSLP where women who are neglected, taken advantage of and denied regular sex are told to develop a FAP, up her sex rank, show her spouse who was denying her attention and intimacy that she is desirable to other males and to show him that he is not the center of her universe and defines her happiness. Now that she looks so hot, her man is now begging to get in her pants. Maybe she's using the 2/3rds rule too when it comes to compliments and such.

IDK, it's quite possible.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It has yet to be determined if she is cheating or not.


Until there is some proof of cheating, he has to treat this as she is not cheating.



Plan 9 from OS said:


> If she is not cheating...it sounds like she followed the exact same advice that some of the guys on here would give to a schlub who can't figure out how to make his wife swoon.
> 
> She must have bought a copy of the MWSLP where women who are neglected, taken advantage of and denied regular sex are told to develop a FAP, up her sex rank, show her spouse who was denying her attention and intimacy that she is desirable to other males and to show him that he is not the center of her universe and defines her happiness. Now that she looks so hot, her man is now begging to get in her pants. Maybe she's using the 2/3rds rule too when it comes to compliments and such.
> 
> IDK, it's quite possible.


Doing this can be very intuitive. That's probably what has happened.

This is what people keep telling men to do.. exactly what she's done. So I guess she should get a high 5????


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> He ignored her for 2 years. He only spent time with her to have sex. This kind of treatment is a real turn off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow is this really what it sounds like? Don't get me wrong, I like the perspective and this may just be partly what she's thinking too...but its not all correct.



I never asked her to stop anything. I'm encouraging her to do what she enjoys. I was in the MS program and though I felt like I did what I could to balance things, I don't know think we agreed on what the 'balance' really was. 



She had been working out for several years before the MS program and I had been actively running and riding for several years prior too. 



She also got MORE serious with becoming an instructor several months after my MS program had already completed. 



I supported her wholeheartedly.



I'm not asking her to give anything up just as she never asked me to stop my program. 



I was still there for the kids and the family. 



Anyway, thanks to everyone for the input so far. The perspectives are refreshing to hear if not sad because I don't know how to broach the subject of an affair...


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Basically, she was an '11' years before the MS program...she had been working out and already looked the part.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

If she withholds sex, why shouldn't he withotld love? Why shouldn't a man consider lack of sexual interest as lack of love ? Spending time with other men is one way that she shows you a great deal of disrespect, which Is a second way she is demonstrating how she doesn't love you. 

Try this. Tell her no more men friends. If she wants friends they can be women

How would she respond to that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Wow is this really what it sounds like? Don't get me wrong, I like the perspective and this may just be partly what she's thinking too...but its not all correct.


Yes that’s what it sounds like. Sometimes we need someone else to point out to us what we are doing that is not working. You need to change a few things, seriously. I gave you two suggestions earlier in this thread for a week and see how it goes. Not that I expect everything to be fixed in one week, but you might see some improvement in that time.




fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I never asked her to stop anything. I'm encouraging her to do what she enjoys. I was in the MS program and though I felt like I did what I could to balance things, I don't know think we agreed on what the 'balance' really was.


I’m sure that you did not agree with what “balanced” meant. 

To maintain the bond/love/passion in a marriage a couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together, just the two of them, doing date-like things that they both enjoy. It does not sound like even now you are getting that. I suggested two books for you to read earlier in the thread. I hope you do because they would be a great help for you.



fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> She had been working out for several years before the MS program and I had been actively running and riding for several years prior too.
> 
> She also got MORE serious with becoming an instructor several months after my MS program had already completed.
> 
> I supported her wholeheartedly.


She found something she loves and you support her in it in some ways. That’s good. Though you seem to not like to participate in it. Now you need to do things to draw her back to you. 





fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I'm not asking her to give anything up just as she never asked me to stop my program.


That’s good. Neither of you should have to give up what you want to do. YOU both just need to learn how to balance things and get your marriage back on track.




fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I was still there for the kids and the family.


It’s good that you are still there. But now you need to bring your marriage back together. You are the one how is here asking, so you are the one who will need to do the work to get things started.

Do the two things I suggested… instead of sitting and watching TV join her and ask her advice for your workout. Ask her things that might require her to put her hands on you to show you the proper position. Touch is important to start rebuilding your bond.

Go to sleep and wake up at the same time she does.

Go work out some at the gym. I don’t care if you hate it there. I hate those places too. But you need to show your face there. You need to interact with her. Do they have a child care room? If they do, let your kids spend half hour to an hour in there. Is there a pool that your kids could use? Go there.
Action, not words.


fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> Anyway, thanks to everyone for the input so far. The perspectives are refreshing to hear if not sad because I don't know how to broach the subject of an affair...


Do not ask her about an affair. It will do no good at all. If she is not having one, it will put a huge rift between you. If she is, she will just lie…. Cheaters lie 99.9999% of the time.

You would have to keep your ears and eyes open.

If you think there might be an affair, get the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley. Read it. Don’t let her see that you have it.. it’s as good as accusing her if she’s not; and tipping her off if she is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nuclearnightmare said:


> If she withholds sex, why shouldn't he withotld love? Why shouldn't a man consider lack of sexual interest as lack of love ? Spending time with other men is one way that she shows you a great deal of respect, which Is a second way she is demonstrating how she doesn't love you.


He withhold love (non-sexual emotional intimacy) for 2 years from her. She had sex with him the entire time. 
Now they can both play this game. He withholds non-sexual intimacy, so then she gets a life of her own and withholds sex, and then he withholds more non-sexual intimacy. And round and round they go unit they spiral down to divorce.

Or one of them and stop the spiral downward. He’s here asking. He has a chance to stop the spiral.



nuclearnightmare said:


> Try this. Tell her no more men friends. If she wants friends they can be women.
> 
> How would she respond to that?


At this point she might tell him to go fly a kite. She now works in an industry where there are a lot of men. Him coming off as her father is not going to go over well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, I asked you twice what clothing you iron every night. I asked for a reason.

It seems that there might be things that you are doing that do not need you to do them. Or do not need to be done at all. I think that looking at how you spend your time and how to build in more time and interaction with your wife might be a very good idea.

So what do your iron, why, how much time do you spend a day doing this?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

My clothes for the next day. 15 minutes tops.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Fit,

Your wife sounds like an entitled princess. You need to stop groveling and planning your life without your W. If it is a game it needs to end and if this is your future with her you need to move on. It is absolutely ridiculous. 

Thank God you did not attend medical or law school. By the way there is not reason to confront your W about an affair because it will get you nowhere. You need to refer to weightlifters evidence gathering post, the 180 post etc. Do not, I repeat DO NOT approach her about an affair unless you have done some evidence gathering on your own. If you find nothing then say nothing. 

In the meantime get on with YOUR life. Be a great Dad and work toward moving on without her because she does not seem interested in the life you have together.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> My clothes for the next day. 15 minutes tops.


What you wrote prior, it seems that you have a real time crunch in your life. So what could you do with a bit more time? What things could you off-load?

this is just one small example. That's an hour & 15 minutes if you only do with is clothing for work.

What could you do with an 1.25 hours a week more time? Work out? 

There are laundry services that would pick up and deliver your clothing. Like I said it's just one small thing. But you need more time for yourself and more time for your relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

A couple points. This won't address every issue here but your attitude and wording indicate a sort of passive wussiness.

"She won't let me" or "She lets me" shouldn't be in your vocabulary.

Also, if my wife disrespected me the way yours does you, she would have divorce papers faster than she could blink.

She actually lets you know she MBs at night while blowing you off for sex? That is very clear language. Let me translate. She is saying "Eat my shyt and die you pathetic m*ther f*cker!"

Your marriage at this point is done and she is clearly enjoying toying with you. My question is why are you letting her?

If she wants to work on something she better grow the hell up and let you know.

Otherwise kiss her goodbye.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I agree with RClaw and Conan.

At this point, I don't even think you can fix your issues alone. Your wife is basically unapproachable and most likely will assume 'your sit downs to talk' is a way of you trying to get sex. 

She flat out told you she masterbates to sleep which clearly shows her sexual drive still exists. Working out also increases sex drives. I don't know how you are okay with being married to a woman who won't sit next to you because you might make advances. On top of that, she is around a specific group of gym buddies which are male more than she is with you. At this point, you are the reason she eats, sleeps, and does things. She wants you for nothing else. Another guy and her whatever takes care of the rest.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

as far as cheating goes: does she hide her phone or erase internet history? Do you have her passwords for FB and other similar things? Anything that makes you suspicious? Does your gut tell you to look into an affair or are you getting that from TAM?

You can put a VAR in the house to see if she is talking to someone while you are out of the house. Keylogger on a computer.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> He withhold love (non-sexual emotional intimacy) for 2 years from her. She had sex with him the entire time.
> Now they can both play this game. He withholds non-sexual intimacy, so then she gets a life of her own and withholds sex, and then he withholds more non-sexual intimacy. And round and round they go unit they spiral down to divorce.
> 
> Or one of them and stop the spiral downward. He’s here asking. He has a chance to stop the spiral.
> ...


Elegirl:

you are being obtuse. you know about maintaining boundaries in a marriage, right. I'm saying he should talk to her like a husband, and a fed up one at that. if she responds vis-a-vis 'fly a kite' I think he has some valuable information right then and there on whether he should spend anymore of his life with her.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

After reading through everything so far, my gut is telling me this isn't just about lack of attention while pursuing an advanced degree.

The genesis of her behavior started before that.......is my guess.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

So quick update. We had a talk last night and several things are clear:



1. It was never about me or the MS program. She lost a career when she became a stay at home mom and this is her way of getting control of her life again. Something that defines her and not "her and the kids" so I totally understand.

2. Everything is in the clear. I have all phone records, she doesn't hide or password protect anything. 

3. I didn't broach the sex question last night. There are issues that to me, are above and beyond sex and honestly, it has nothing to do with marriage but about identity and purpose. 



Last night's talk resulted in lots of crying and anger but ended with mutual understanding and good terms. She's not doing the training to get away from me or to be around others - she's doing it so she feels that she's not just a mom. 



I asked about time and schedules and how we can spend more time together and we assessed everything. I'm at work from 6 to 6. She gets everything done in the day. There's no way we can be at the gym together. She doesn't feel that her helping me work out would be any good.



As far as physical closeness, again, I didn't go over it. I didn't want the conversation to be about sex but about purpose and where we're going.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Good job! (IMHO).

what are her anger issues? Why the crying? What is she resentful about if it wasn't 'about you or the m.s. program'?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> Good job! (IMHO).
> 
> what are her anger issues? Why the crying? What is she resentful about if it wasn't 'about you or the m.s. program'?




She was on her way to a management role, but we decided that we wanted someone to stay at home for our kids. So my career needed to advance to support this decision, but her career effectively ended.



She consults from home but she misses speaking to adults about things that aren't about her kids or daily drudgery. She says she talks about me with her gym friends and I know that her gym friends are also on FB and are in the same boat - except they're stay at home dads or stay at home moms. 



She's resentful about loss of identity. She feels that doing the gym thing is her way of doing something on her own - without kids or family - that she can call a job.



We also talked about schedules and being a fitness instructor is the only flexible career option that works - she takes into account the kids and their school and their vacations and homework.



Like I said, she is a great mom and she puts everything into it.



We just need to work on being a great couple again.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> He withhold love (non-sexual emotional intimacy) for 2 years from her. She had sex with him the entire time.


I can't for life of me see where people are getting the idea that he just "used her for sex" and withheld emotionally.

First, she was on board with the MS program. It was for the good of the family. One can expect that since he sacrificed all of that time, she might be able to sacrifice something?

He said "A few years ago, I had to get a MS degree for work. This was a finite two-year commitment but has been done for a year now. During that time, I had A LOT of difficulty balancing work, school, business travel, two kids, and at the time, a wife with an insatiable sexual appetite." 

"Sex life during The MS was good. She would initiate, I would initiate. She went through a phase when she only had sex on her mind. I would do what I could to satisfy her, but then I'd have to go back to my studies. I seriously miss those times."

He was trying hard to meet HER sexual needs, not his own.

The sex stopped after the MS program. 

His wife figures there's no problem because "none of her friend's husbands are getting any either".

Really? He's the bad guy here? He his focused on meeting her needs while getting none of his own met. I think the last thing that needs to be done is try harder. She needs to wake up and realize his feelings matter as well. How do you wake up a self-absorbed wife? Destabilize her world. Let her know that it's not going to just continue going all her way while he gets nothing.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> So quick update. We had a talk last night and several things are clear:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good move leaving the sex out of the discussion. That keeps her from just dismissing everything you say as just being because you're a sex fiend.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

this puts everything in a different light.

appears much more salvageable now.

yes, you are right. becoming a couple. is she on board?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> She was on her way to a management role, but we decided that we wanted someone to stay at home for our kids. So my career needed to advance to support this decision, but her career effectively ended.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Her priorities are:

1) The kids

2) The gym

.
.
.
.
.

10) You

There's plenty of time after you get home to pay some attention to you. And Saturdays at the gym? No. She's got all week for that and only has you on the weekends. If she cares about you then she needs to know how unhappy you are. If she doesn't care about you, then nothing is going to change and this is your life.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> this puts everything in a different light.
> 
> appears much more salvageable now.
> 
> yes, you are right. becoming a couple. is she on board?




She's on board.



I may have sacrificed time for my MS program, but from her perspective, she sacrificed her career for the family. My commitment was finite whereas hers is almost infinite.



I needed to hear her say this. This caused her to cry and become upset because she did give hints over the years but I was just focused on getting things done.



Emotionally - I really do need to be there more. I need to be a better listener and read the nonverbal cues that are saying, "I'm despairing here" or "I'm dying a slow death of being meaningless." She sees me and my career progression and she doesn't have anything to show for it.



I told her that she just has to look at the house and the family, but she says - that's great but what about me? What about what I have to offer to the world besides the family?



I get it.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Her priorities are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




...but how was I paying attention to her? 



I wasn't. Not the way she wanted. So it goes both ways.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> A couple points. This won't address every issue here but your attitude and wording indicate a sort of passive wussiness.
> 
> "She won't let me" or "She lets me" shouldn't be in your vocabulary.
> 
> ...


Yowza! I missed that detail the first time around. 

OP, I'm happy you had a good convo with your wife and the door is open to some reconciliation, but this is extraordinarily disrespectful. Rejection is one thing--but this is just rubbing your nose in it.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Yowza! I missed that detail the first time around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, well...one step at a time.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Yowza! I missed that detail the first time around.
> 
> OP, I'm happy you had a good convo with your wife and the door is open to some reconciliation, but this is extraordinarily disrespectful. Rejection is one thing--but this is just rubbing your nose in it.


yes, the resentment is really shocking. Assuming she's being really truthful, then her sense of independence, self worth and identity have taken a huge hit by dedicating herself to home life.

That explains why she's been so unhappy. It doesn't explain why she's treated you so terribly. Yes, you admit you've blown it, but her disrespect and utter contempt are not explained by this so far.

Why does she blame you so much for her decision to stay home and give up a career?

Is it a sort of indirect resentment or does she believe she was pressured into it?


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> yes, the resentment is really shocking. Assuming she's being really truthful, then her sense of independence, self worth and identity have taken a huge hit by dedicating herself to home life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She doesn't blame me for anything. She is resentful, but not at me or anyone. 



She has taken a huge hit, and seeing my advancing career isn't helping. 



I don't think she hates me. I don't think she wants other people. I don't think she is looking for a relationship outside of our marriage.



She's feeling choked and worthless because she feels that she has nothing to show for herself. She doesn't bring money in, has no career to speak of, and has kids who are unappreciative of her efforts. 



I don't know where the sex went but honestly, though sex is an issue, I'm more concerned about her and her well-being and her desire to lead a fulfilling life.



Does this manifest itself with her behavior and attitude towards me and sex with me? Quite possibly. 



Again, its something we need to grasp and try to work on.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Hey Fitwife--

I think it is great that you had that conversation with your wife and she expressed some of her regrets and motivation for recent behavior.

Be careful about buying into her victim status too much though. 

You built your life TOGETHER. It is not something that you did to her. She chose it just as much as you did. At any point she could say, stop, I want to do something different. And my guess is that you're the kind of understanding guy that would have worked out whatever she wanted.

Now, she has time to go to the gym 3x per day. I get it that fitness was her outlet to regain her sense of self. That is healthy up to a point. It is not healthy when it overwhelms your other commitments (e.g., to your marriage).

Her backstory of regret should not be the basis for justifying her lack of prioritization of her marriage TODAY.

If her desire is to truly get a job, I would bet that she could find a much more productive use of her time and skills than being a fitness instructor.

In other words, I think the job thing, while probably true on some level, does not fully account for this gym obsession.

If I were you I would say, "Hey, I get that you lost a part of yourself when you became a SAHM. I think it's great that you want to contribute to the family financially again, but I think there is a better way to do this than being a fitness instructor. Can we think of another approach?"

Her response to this will reveal a lot.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Hey Fitwife--
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is exactly what we talks about and she feels that she has been prioritizing the kids and the housework before herself. She needs the gym not only as a job, but also as an outlet.



We talked about options but no other option is as flexible ad being a fitness instructor. So we agreed to that.



Putting kids in daycare is not an option.



Her working nights and weekends is not an option.



She told me that she wants to make time for me and this is the best way she knows how.



It was seriously just a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication and it manifested itself with what we have now.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Hoping for the best for you. Never discount the possibility of an affair though. In your case, I don't get the sense that you had a strong history of effective communication in your marriage. Because of that, her pulling away may also be explained by love for another man (or woman). Chances are it is what you describe. However, due diligence to check for burner phones, hidden e-mail accounts, texting apps on smartphones that keep no records, etc is called for here given the significant withdrawal from you for a year plus. 

IMHO, it's a little much that she would be so jaded over a misunderstanding, but that's just me.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I'm more concerned about her and her well-being and her desire to lead a fulfilling life.


It seems to me that she's just fine. She comes home from the gym "glowing" and you "don't want to take that away from her".

I don't recall the original post being all about how your wife doesn't seem happy with life and wondering how you can help.

It was about how YOU were unhappy.

What happened was, while you were focusing on school, she started getting involved in finding her identity through the gym and being a fitness instructor. That's fine, she needs a purpose in life.

The problem is that the gym replaced you. I don't quite understand how she thought you'd be okay with that. She probably does think you're ok with it, since instead of expressing your displeasure, you find ways to blame yourself instead of her. She can have kids, an avocation and still find time to pay attention to her husband. Lots of women do it,

She may just be insensitive enough to think that you're ok and you don't really mind if there's no sex (after all, that's how life is for her friend's husbands). 

You need to stand up for yourself. There's nothing wrong with having needs and expecting someone that supposedly loves you to put for a little effort to satisfy them (and I'm not just talking about sex).


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> This is exactly what we talks about and she feels that she has been prioritizing the kids and the housework before herself. She needs the gym not only as a job, but also as an outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It just seems really convenient that there is literally nothing else that would work for her other than spending even more time at the gym.

Think about that for a minute.

What about all those dudes she hangs out with there-- are you sure that this is not motivating her at all?

There is seriously no other place in the entire world she could work?

Again, seems awful convenient to me.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

So taking at face value with no hidden agenda, she is resentful and disappointed, not directly at you, but indirectly because of your own career advancement.

Her self worth, and even possibly self loathing has resulted in her feeling 'un-sexy'. Her gym obsession is possibly related to her desire to feel sexy and worthwhile; to compensate for her feeling un-worthwhile. Her indirect resentment towards you (though she knows at a certain level it's not right) causes her to loath and reject you constantly. On another level, she respects and even (hopefully) loves and appreciates you, but is torn between that feeling and the feeling of resentment at your success and accomplishments and is a form of punishing you for that.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

If the above has any validity, it just strikes me because I have often seen jealousy and rivalry often between couple in a marriage.

Like it's a competition. Sad.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Fitwife-menotsomuch, what steps have you taken to rule out an affair?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> It just seems really convenient that there is literally nothing else that would work for her other than spending even more time at the gym.


Asking her to give up the gym is a bit much. That's what she's into, she won't be satisfied changing careers to Starbucks Barista. 

However, she could still spend time at the gym while OP is working and focus on him in the evening instead of FB, stretching, whatever.

And none of this explains her dismissive attitude towards sex and his needs. So, I understand that she needs the gym, but she's either got to be pissed at him for something, lost all desire for him or is so unfeeling that she doesn't care what he needs. She used to have sex only because SHE wanted it? Now that she's got something else to focus on, she doesn't need it? It never occurred to her to consider what her husband might want? Or that it helps intimacy in marriage? That's pretty disturbing. It's like her needs are the only thing that matters, which wouldn't be surprising coming from an '11'.

So, they've decided that the fitness trainer job is the right thing for her. What's in it for him? What's she going to do to make life better for him? For the marriage?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

The only reason I would ever go to a gym is to look at women in tight clothes.

Otherwise, it is better to work out at home.

OP's wife wasn't getting enough attention at home, so she started going to the gym. She is getting hit on there regularly-- guaranteed.

Even if nothing serious has happened yet, this is a ticking time bomb.

Edit: I am not saying OP should try to ban his wife from the gym, but the dynamic here seems obviously unhealthy to me.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I do admit that I did suck as a husband for a while. I've groveled. I've apologized. I've changed my ways. Hell, as of today, I've taken a new job that is significantly closer to home so i can be home earlier and be more available.


All of this is good...except the groveling part. I don't believe spouses should have to grovel. Sincerely owning your own mistakes and shortcomings without trying to pass blame and apologizing? Yes, that is needed. You say you've apologized, that you've changed, and that's good...but it will mean absolutely nothing without very real, proactive steps to meeting her emotional needs. And while I understand that you've become emotionally charged due to her rejections and spiteful comments, it's important that you look beyond the _what_ to the *why*. Try to see things from her perspective, or even better, try and communicate with her about what her perspective is. 



> I'm 'back' and I've been courting - my way, and I think its not 'her' way. She doesn't like flowers or presents or nice dinners or surprises. She HATES surprises. Always has.


You _can't_ do it your way and expect it to make a difference. She isn't you, her needs are not going to be the same as yours. You're going to have to learn what her needs are to start trying to meet them. For instance, if you knew she didn't like flowers, why on earth would you go and buy her some?



> I brought flowers home today and she was like, "what's that for???" I told her I missed her and I want to talk about us tonight.


If she doesn't like flowers or presents or nice dinners, what _does_ she like? What would speak to her on an emotional level? If you don't know the answer, I suggest you work very hard to find out.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> Are you serious?


Completely. 



> You read this story and think that the wife doesn't feel like she's a priority?


Yes. Because, unlike some, I look beyond the what of a relationship and try to see the why behind it. There is a reason for everything a person does. Sometimes a bad reason, sometimes an understandable one. If you were neglected by your wife in nearly everyway for two years while she advanced herself in her career, you would be resentful and bitter, would you not? 



> Do you think that she thinks he's a priority?


Honestly, I think she's in too much pain to know what she thinks about him right now. She has deep rooted pain from emotional neglect, he's said himself that he sucked as a husband for a while. Just because he now wishes to right those wrongs doesn't negate the real pain she'd endured for the last two years. Now, that being said, it doesn't excuse her behavior...it merely explains where it's coming from. _*PAIN*_. And I think she deserves some compassion. 



> She doesn't want to spend time with him. It just interferes with gym time. She wants his income and help with the kids in the evenings and Saturdays. That's all she wants out of him.


Nope. I think this is dead wrong in every way. If that was all she wanted, she'd have no qualms about saying it. From my perspective, she's been emotionally neglected and now no longer trusts him to be there for her emotionally. She's uncomfortable...sort of like when you have a scab on your knee after you've fallen and skinned it. The initial pain of the fall may be gone, but you know if you peel off the scab the skin underneath is going to be very sensitive and it will hurt and sting to be exposed to the air. She has a scab over her emotional psyche, and to open up to him emotionally is to peel away that scab to the tender flesh underneath. That is, naturally, a vulnerable and uncomfortable place to be in. Trust can not be repaired, respected can be re-earned, overnight.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> Ok, we agree on the bolded. Wallowing and sitting around feeling bad does not a chick magnet make. A more proactive approach would have been nice.
> 
> However, it seems like didn't have as much of a problem when he was in school. I sure looks like she's rewriting history to justify the way she's feeling now. Why she's feeling that way now? I'm not usually paranoid but I'm concerned about the boys at the gym.


His timeline has been confusing. His posts sometimes seem to contradict each other...one minute he was too busy for anything during those two years...the next he would stop and have sex whenever she wanted...Regardless, I doubt very much if she was "okay with it" while he was in school. She may not have complained, and really what would that have done but create a lot of conflict and make his schooling last longer, but I doubt she was okay. If she were, she wouldn't have reacted the way she has. Unless you're insinuating that she's a horrible, sadistic person bent on nothing more than making both their lives a living hell...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> I was still there for the kids and the family.


No disrespect intended, but I don't think so. You may have been "there", physically around, but at least for her you were not active and present in your relationship. And while you may have done your best to balance things, it doesn't negate the fact that she clearly feels no emotional connection to you any longer. Sometimes our best simply isn't enough and we have to find a way to push ourselves harder. Find other things to sacrifice.



> Anyway, thanks to everyone for the input so far. The perspectives are refreshing to hear if not sad because I don't know how to broach the subject of an affair...


I wouldn't broach that subject right now! I would leave it alone. You need to earn your wife's trust back, and asking her about an affair will do the opposite.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

nuclearnightmare said:


> If she withholds sex, why shouldn't he withotld love? Why shouldn't a man consider lack of sexual interest as lack of love ? Spending time with other men is one way that she shows you a great deal of disrespect, which Is a second way she is demonstrating how she doesn't love you.
> 
> Try this. Tell her no more men friends. If she wants friends they can be women
> 
> ...


Typical. Doesn't matter _why_ she's not sexually interested in him, just that she isn't. His emotional fulfillment is the only one that matters.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> His timeline has been confusing. His posts sometimes seem to contradict each other...one minute he was too busy for anything during those two years...the next he would stop and have sex whenever she wanted...Regardless, I doubt very much if she was "okay with it" while he was in school. She may not have complained, and really what would that have done but create a lot of conflict and make his schooling last longer, but I doubt she was okay. If she were, she wouldn't have reacted the way she has. Unless you're insinuating that she's a horrible, sadistic person bent on nothing more than making both their lives a living hell...




I think what needs to be said is that I didn't IGNORE my wife during the MS program. 



She's not horrible - far from it.



I agree with a LOT of what you say and I think I have always taken things from the view of "the family" when so clearly, her biggest concern is loss of identity.



I get it.



She wants to contribute but not just as a mom.



It's difficult for me to understand because I'm the sole provider and because that is all I know. I fix problems and I provide solutions. 



What I didn't do was listen well. Understand. 



Yes, there are some things in this thread that may seem contradictory but I've definitely learned a lot from everyone's inputs.



I need to go. Thanks for the advice everyone.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> By the way, I asked you twice what clothing you iron every night. I asked for a reason.
> 
> It seems that there might be things that you are doing that do not need you to do them. Or do not need to be done at all. I think that looking at how you spend your time and how to build in more time and interaction with your wife might be a very good idea.
> 
> So what do your iron, why, how much time do you spend a day doing this?


^THIS. Time management is absolutely vital right now. That passion, that emotional connection, won't be fixed with the bare minimum of time together.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

It may be that she wants something very different from her husband than you want from your life. Don't invalidate her wants just because they differ from yours. Maybe before she got married she thought she wanted an ambitious driven man who spends most of his time working, earning money, trying to get promoted, etc. Maybe after she got married she realized she wants a guy who works 9-5 and spends all his spare time in the gym becoming buff. You may not want to be that guy. Fine. But you aren't going to show your wife you care by buying her presents she doesn't want and not bothering to find out what she DOES want form you.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, by your own admission you _did_ ignore her...you ignored her desire to be more than a stay-at-home mom because all you could see in the moment was your own career. That _is_ ignoring your wife.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> Well, by your own admission you _did_ ignore her...you ignored her desire to be more than a stay-at-home mom because all you could see in the moment was your own career. That _is_ ignoring your wife.


Quote me where he says "You have to stay at home".

I read _"She was on her way to a management role, but *we* decided that we wanted someone to stay at home for our kids. So my career needed to advance to support this decision, but her career effectively ended"_ sounds like an agreement she was fine with. 

He went through the MS program for his own greedy purposes. No wait, he says _"She was onboard and encouraged me to get the MS"._

The only evidence we have that he ignored her is his own guilty conscience because he felt he couldn't devote as much time to being the perfect husband and father he wanted to be. "_My MS program was online so I literally spent every evening for two years working on it. I was very focused on finishing because she said I wasn't paying attention to anything else. I was SO guilt-ridden during the entire two years. Still am."_

As for the claims that he just used her as a cum bucket while working on his MS, _Sex life during The MS was good. She would initiate, I would initiate. She went through a phase when she only had sex on her mind. I would do what I could to satisfy her, but then I'd have to go back to my studies. I seriously miss those times"_. Wow, I just can't imagine a a$$hole husband *using* his wife like that!

He's clearly a jerk. Here's what he does on weeknights and Saturdays _"I finish with the kids and their homework and we have dinner and then i give my daughter a bath and put them to sleep. In that order. Every night. When the kids are asleep, I'll do dishes and iron clothes. While I'm doing dishes, she's on the computer or practicing her workout routine. When I'm done, I'll sit on the couch and we watch a show on Netflix. I'll be on the couch while she's against the wall stretching or on the floor with her foam roller. Then Saturdays she works out twice in the morning then goes to farmers market. I spend the day with the kids. Sunday afternoons, that's when she* lets *me go and work out."_ It's clearly all about him.

It's not just that she doesn't want to have sex. She's dismissive and disrespectful about it. _"She says its ok if she just lies there while I go at it. when we do have sex, she'll remark afterwards, 'are you happy now?' She also knows that whenever I try to get close, it will lead to an advance, so while we're sitting together or whatever, she'll comment on, 'well, I'd ask you to massage my quads but I know where your hands will end up' or if she's tired and she lays her head down on my lap, she'll say, 'I could hear your brain wanting to push me down there...' She said its just natural and that her friends' husbands almost never get sex. She doesn't want to have_ sex because the people at the gym will "smell the sex on her".

She's an entitled princess with a bit of a mid-life crisis. OP has her on a pedestal.

She played the wife and mother game for a while because she wanted to. Now, she's discovered fitness and decided it's time to be all about her. "_This is exactly what we talks about and she feels that she has been prioritizing the kids and the housework before herself. She needs the gym not only as a job, but also as an outlet."_ That's nice. First it was all about the kids and housework. Now it's all about her. It's never been about him. 

OP is a nice guy. Perhaps his needs have never been a priority for her because he's never made her aware that he *has* any. That's his problem. He needs to man up. He needs to say "I'm not happy. If things don't change, I'm outta here". It's inconceivable to me that anyone can look at this situation and say "damn, I can't imagine how she has suffered. He's been such a d!ck".


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Buddy, I'm sorry for whatever is going on in your marriage/life to make you so bitter and resentful, but a woman isn't an entitled Princess just because she expects to have her needs met. You can quote the OP out of context as much as you like, it doesn't change that he freely acknowledges that he ignored her discontent as a SAHM, something she frequently brought up that he either didn't hear at all or didn't comprehend, and he is now paying the price for that. They have talked though, she has opened up to him, and they are now, at last, on the same page. As long as they continue to be open with each other, I think they can begin the healing process and find their way back to a loving, sexual relationship.

I don't believe in denying sex in marriage. My husband and I have a very active, healthy, loving sex life. But sex is not given unconditionally by either of us. My behavior effects my husband's desire for me, and his ability to be emotionally open and vulnerable. And likewise, his behavior does the same. The idea that a spouse should always be willing to have sex regardless of how they feel, or how they're treated, is asinine. Sex is, to me, the physical representation of an emotional relationship...if the sex sucks, it's usually a sign that something is wrong emotionally. Fix the emotional, and the physical will usually follow. But if you are unwilling to fix the emotional, then you will reap what you have sown...which is nothing.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> Buddy, I'm sorry for whatever is going on in your marriage/life to make you so bitter and resentful, but a woman isn't an entitled Princess just because she expects to have her needs met. You can quote the OP out of context as much as you like, it doesn't change that he freely acknowledges that he ignored her discontent as a SAHM, something she frequently brought up that he either didn't hear at all or didn't comprehend, and he is now paying the price for that. They have talked though, she has opened up to him, and they are now, at last, on the same page. As long as they continue to be open with each other, I think they can begin the healing process and find their way back to a loving, sexual relationship.
> 
> I don't believe in denying sex in marriage. My husband and I have a very active, healthy, loving sex life. But sex is not given unconditionally by either of us. My behavior effects my husband's desire for me, and his ability to be emotionally open and vulnerable. And likewise, his behavior does the same. The idea that a spouse should always be willing to have sex regardless of how they feel, or how they're treated, is asinine. Sex is, to me, the physical representation of an emotional relationship...if the sex sucks, it's usually a sign that something is wrong emotionally. Fix the emotional, and the physical will usually follow. But if you are unwilling to fix the emotional, then you will reap what you have sown...which is nothing.


Nothing is going on in my life to make me bitter and resentful. I'm in a wonderful, happy marriage of 25 years. That's because I'm not married to OP's wife (or someone like her).

The first time OP's wife tells him she's resentful (and then she specifically tells him it's not his fault) is a year after he's finished the MS program. What does OP do when she wants to pursue interests outside of the home? OP supports her completely. Her happiness is constantly on his mind. He'd just like her to pay attention to him once in a while.

She can have sex with him or not (and, notice that OP repeatedly says that it's not just about sex), but it's one thing to not fulfill your husband's needs. It's another to belittle and mock them. And I never once said that main problem was sex. I think that's just you projecting your "all men are pigs" mindset.

There's a difference between ignoring your wife because you're in a program to improve your career for the sake of your family (a purpose she supported) and ignoring your wife because you're out drinking with your buddies every night. And I'm not even sure he ignored her that much, I think he's being overly guilt ridden. The problems didn't really start until he was done with the program anyway. She's re-writing history to blame him.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> The idea that a spouse should always be willing to have sex regardless of how they feel, or how they're treated, is asinine. .


Does this go both ways? Should a spouse always be willing to provide emotional support if he is constantly rejected sexually?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I have no "all men are pigs" mindset, but thank you for the concern. 

I doubt very much that she is re-writing history. Unless she's really a horrible, vindictive person without feeling or a conscience, the chances of her doing so are very slim. By his own account of circumstances, he didn't spend much time with her or their kids during the two years he was pursuing his MS degree. Sure, he had sex when she wanted it, but sex on its own _is not_ truly meeting the emotional needs of one's spouse. A couple needs at least 15 hours together each week to maintain the emotional connection of their relationship. I doubt very much they he spent that time with her, so while her sexual needs may have been met, the emotional connection between them was not cherished or maintained. 

She may have supported him and been on board with this progression in his career, as most loving wives would be, but that doesn't mean there weren't emotional consequences. One of which was resentment from watching his career take off, while she'd had to give hers up. She lost her identity, and I think, also lost that emotional connection with him and is now unsure of what she wants in life. In rebuilding her identity, she now needs her husband to help rebuild that emotional connection, or her new identity won't include sexual desire for him.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> Does this go both ways? Should a spouse always be willing to provide emotional support if he is constantly rejected sexually?


It would depend on why sex is being denied. Sometimes the reason is that the spouse who rejects sex is simply LD. They may be emotionally fulfilled and happy in their marriage, they just do not desire sex as much as the other person. If the HD spouse chooses to stay married to such a person, then yes, they need to provide emotional support. The LD spouse also needs to be willing to provide sexual "support", but the HD spouses responsibilities are not negated just because the other spouse is LD. 

If the spouse rejecting sex is doing so because of past emotional pain and neglect, then I would say the rejected spouse has to make a choice: attempt to right their wrongs and fix their broken marriage (in which case, yes, they need to be willing to provide emotional support during that time...the marriage won't be fixed without it), or leave. If they choose to try and fix it, they should give emotional support until their spouse has made it clear they do not wish to reciprocate. This would mean that no effort has been made on their part to increase sexual frequency. At that point, they need to leave. 

In the case of personal tragedy where the sexually unavailable spouse is grieving/dealing with internal issues caused by external situations (depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, PTSD, etc), then yes. Emotional support is absolutely vital in these times. If not given, it will damage the relationship...so much so, that it may not be able to be repaired.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

So, bottom line, emotional support is non-conditional, but sexual intimacy is conditional. 

In my opinion, they are two sides of the same coin. If you lose either, you lose both.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

And no, there isn't a difference between ignoring your wife to advance your career and ignoring your wife to go drink with your buddies. Ignoring your wife is ignoring your wife, regardless of the reasons. It's simply not acceptable, not when it can be helped. And just because he was bad at time management doesn't mean he was justified in ignoring her. He could have learned new ways of managing his time that would have allowed him more time with her and their kids. Unless I'm forgetting something, he didn't _have_ to finish the MS program in two years. He could have slowed it down, given himself less of a load.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> So, bottom line, emotional support is non-conditional, but sexual intimacy is conditional.


To this I can only say yes, and no. I don't believe that either emotional support or sexual intimacy are conditional. They are both vital to maintain a healthy relationship. Ideally, both spouses would know this going into the relationship and remember it through the trials and tribulations of life. Unfortunately, they are both sometimes forgotten and both spouses are equally responsible for this. 

However, if the sexually rejected spouse is the one who wakes up and realizes that they are unhappy in their marriage, and that they want to restore that happiness, _they_ are the one's responsible for taking that step - therefore, emotional support comes first. 

If the spouse who is emotionally neglected is the one who waked up and realizes they are unhappy and wish to fix it, it is _their_ responsibility to take the first step - and that means that sex comes first. 



> In my opinion, they are two sides of the same coin. If you lose either, you lose both.


I absolutely agree with this. But it follows that, to restore one, you must first/also restore the other.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> I absolutely agree with this. But it follows that, to restore one, you must first/also restore the other.


OK, so why does the emotional support always have to come first?

I will be honest that I have basically no interest in emotionally connecting with a woman who is not f-cking me.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> And no, there isn't a difference between ignoring your wife to advance your career and ignoring your wife to go drink with your buddies. Ignoring your wife is ignoring your wife, regardless of the reasons. It's simply not acceptable, not when it can be helped. And just because he was bad at time management doesn't mean he was justified in ignoring her. He could have learned new ways of managing his time that would have allowed him more time with her and their kids. Unless I'm forgetting something, he didn't _have_ to finish the MS program in two years. He could have slowed it down, given himself less of a load.


So, there's no difference between my wife not paying attention to me because she's got three kids running around and an ailing mother to take care of and not paying attention to me because she's watching "Love Boat" reruns and eating Cheetos?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> OK, so why does the emotional support always have to come first?
> 
> I will be honest that I have basically no interest in emotionally connecting with a woman who is not f-cking me.


It doesn't "always". If your wife were the one here wanting to fix your marriage, I would be telling her to make sex a priority and start initiating...that she first has to prove to you that she's safe to be emotionally vulnerable with before you can open up to her. But since she isn't here and you are, the first step towards mutuality is your responsibility. 

Essentially it boils down to this: the spouse who wakes up and wants to fix the relationship, is the one who must take the first step. And that first step needs to be a bridge to reconnect with their spouse. 

I get that you have no emotional interest in her right now, but she likewise has no sexual interest in you. You won't get sex without giving emotional support...your needs won't be met until hers begin to be. And unless she's willing to work with you right from the beginning, then you only have two options: be willing to take the first, grueling, difficult step toward reigniting the sexual flame that has been lost by showing her that you are able to meet her emotional needs, or leave.

This is called a "vicious cycle". She denies sex, you pull away emotionally, she denies more sex, you keep pulling away emotionally, she denies more sex, etc. At some point the cycle has to be broken, and since you're the one looking for ways to mend the relationship, it falls to you to beak that cycle. Otherwise the cycle will simply continue. 

So you have to ask yourself: is this really about both of you? Or is it only about you? Because if it's only about your needs, you may as well divorce and leave her now. Because until you can see beyond your pain and acknowledge hers, there will be no increase in sexual frequency. 

And were she here wanting to mend your relationship, I'd be telling her the same thing, only with sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> So, there's no difference between my wife not paying attention to me because she's got three kids running around and an ailing mother to take care of and not paying attention to me because she's watching "Love Boat" reruns and eating Cheetos?


Not comparable. Of course there's a difference between your two examples. The difference is CHOICE. Your wife can't control her circumstances, especially as regards the ailing mother. She would be able to control what she watches and for how long. 

He, likewise, absolutely could control the amount of studying he chose to do. But since he chose to do as much as possible, to the detriment of his domestic life, there's no difference between that and choosing to drink with his buddies. Even if there was a benefit at the end of his program.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> Not comparable. Of course there's a difference between your two examples. The difference is CHOICE. Your wife can't control her circumstances, especially as regards the ailing mother. She would be able to control what she watches and for how long.
> 
> He, likewise, absolutely could control the amount of studying he chose to do. But since he chose to do as much as possible, to the detriment of his domestic life, there's no difference between that and choosing to drink with his buddies. Even if there was a benefit at the end of his program.


So, let's say my wife and I make a decision together that. for the good of the family, I'll pull 20 hours a week OT so that she can quit work and work on an advanced degree. I never object while this is happening.

She completes the degree; about a year later she complains that I'm never "there" for her emotionally. I tell her that during the time she was getting her degree and I was working so much I "learned not to depend on her for my happiness". I never give a second thought to her needs. She wants to spend some quality time with me watching TV. I tell her "go ahead and watch whatever you want, I'm going to be playing a video game". 

It's her fault because "she ignored me all that time", right? She's the bad guy?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Your hypothetical situation also doesn't apply because 1) it misses the entire point that I made in post #151, 2) is written with a bias against me, and 3) is meant to do nothing more than provoke and irritate. And since you've already judged that I think all men are pigs, based on nothing more than my refusal to join in the tirade against his wife, it really won't matter what I say or how I explain myself. You won't listen. 

I don't condone or support his wife's actions. The OP sounds like an, honestly, good guy who made a mistake that he now has no idea how to fix. I maintain that his two primary mistakes were in taking on the amount of school work that he did, and then not lessening that school work when/if he sensed his wife's discontent. Just because she "was fine" with it before the program started, doesn't mean that she couldn't change her mind during it. People often think they can handle something before it comes, and then realize that they were wrong and change their minds.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

I couldn't change the workload during school - it was a fixed schedule with fixed classes with guaranteed completion within two years if you followed the fixed curriculum.



I had no choice in the coursework, classes, or program other than my initial acceptance and execution.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

In any case, I'm dwelling on the past. What's done is done and what I need to do is recover what I can and put more emphasis where it matters.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Sounds like he sucked as a husband for a while, too.


You mean while he was getting his Master's degree (going full time) in addition to working full-time, traveling for work, and whatever other contributions he was making at home?

Just knowing it is you who keep a roof over their heads and food on the table is stressful, not to mention the pressure of going to work and getting it done.

If you do it well and move ahead (vs. someone who just does the minimum and goes home) there it just less energy to go around. This guy, for as long as he's the sole breadwinner, should get the same slack as a mom with a newborn / infant.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Being a provider, working to improve and advance one's career, do not negate the responsibility of being a husband, too. Neither does having a newborn negate a wife's responsibility to _be_ a wife. One responsibility does not negate the other. It may alter how that responsibility is met, but it doesn't negate it. A wife would not be given slack if she refused to have sex with her husband for two years after giving birth. At some point during that time, she has to take on _both_ roles. The same goes for him.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> In any case, I'm dwelling on the past. What's done is done and what I need to do is recover what I can and put more emphasis where it matters.


It may be done, but the effects linger. I admire your willingness to move forward and make necessary changes. Hopefully as your wife rediscovers her identity, and as you begin to be present again as a husband, she will open back up to you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It has yet to be determined if she is cheating or not. If she is not cheating...it sounds like she followed the exact same advice that some of the guys on here would give to a schlub who can't figure out how to make his wife swoon.


Except this is not the same situation - not even close. I've not ever seen a man come on here and say "my wife works a job and a half with traveling - plus did a full-time Master's - because I don't work" then be told she needs to straighten up and rock his world. 

Any guy saying that would be told "she is bending over backwards to make a nice life for your family - you need to be stepping up your contribution and take some pressure off of her before asking for more."

So, then, why is the OP being told "sole provider, demanding job, FT Master's because it was required - not good enough"?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

If their roles were reversed, I would be saying the exact same thing to her. Working hard to make a good living does not a good spouse make. There _must_ be attempts to maintain the emotional connection through all of that. Otherwise, it's not a marriage, it's nothing more than a contract for a certain financial standard. The truth is that that simply _isn't_ good enough, regardless of gender.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> So quick update. We had a talk last night and several things are clear:
> 
> 1. It was never about me or the MS program. She lost a career when she became a stay at home mom and this is her way of getting control of her life again. Something that defines her and not "her and the kids" so I totally understand.
> 
> ...


I was going to ask about this before reading this post. Essentially, it sounds like you have to work extra hard to keep the family going. She's not happy as a SAHM and resents how much time you put into your career (however necessary that level of effort may be).

So now she's looking for something to do for herself, and what's she's doing now is not particularly gainful. Have you considered having her go back to work?

My plan would be something like this:

* She returns to work at either a full-time permanent position or at a well-paying part-time / temp / contract position. The point is for her to make a net contribution to the family finances.
* Once that is achieved, you throttle back at work a bit. Don't seek that next promotion for a while. Maybe take a job with less pressure and/or closer to home. Free up some time and energy.
* Spend more time together. If she gets a decent job as I described, you guys will have the finances to get a little household help (like getting your shirts pressed).

I see that as a win-win. She has a sense of self from a career. You have less pressure to provide and will be at home more. You guys will have more together time and your relationship should benefit.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

fitwife-menotsomuch said:


> This is exactly what we talks about and she feels that she has been prioritizing the kids and the housework before herself. She needs the gym not only as a job, but also as an outlet.
> 
> We talked about options but no other option is as flexible ad being a fitness instructor. So we agreed to that.
> 
> ...


How lucrative is being a fitness instructor? Will she bring home enough to take significant financial pressure off of you?

The issue I see is that you work 12 hours per day (plus whatever you're commute is) and you travel on top of that. I'm sure there are days you work even longer when in town. Your together time will be limited as long as you work this schedule.

Some people are up for marriages where together time is limited. That does not appear to be the case here. I think your turnaround plan for the marriage might not succeed if you are not home more, which will not happen if you still pay most / all of the bills.

Which one of you says that having the kids in day care is not a viable option?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Well, by your own admission you _did_ ignore her...you ignored her desire to be more than a stay-at-home mom because all you could see in the moment was your own career. That _is_ ignoring your wife.


Nope. You need to re-read the thread.

They both agreed that she needed to be the stay-at-home parent and he would work, building his career to bring home enough money to support the family comfortably.

All these decisions were made together. Now it's understandable that she underestimated how hard he'd have to work to support his family, or how much she would dislike being a SAHM mom. But that unhappiness should not translate to resentment of him, because he was only holding up his end of their joint agreement.

It's possible that there is more at play here that is not being divulged by the OP. It is possible, for instance, that he is not making as much as he should for the money he's making (IOW he should be making more or working less). But speculating on such things is pointless.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> He, likewise, absolutely could control the amount of studying he chose to do.


Maybe, or maybe not. It's true he was not in a cohort setup (where you move through the program with the same set of students). But he did say he had to do it.

BTW, I've known two people who lost their jobs because they did not revised education requirements in the allotted time frame.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

DTO said:


> Maybe, or maybe not. It's true he was not in a cohort setup (where you move through the program with the same set of students). But he did say he had to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It was a cohort. I would have lost my job if I didn't get the MS in the 2 year time I was given. It was online because that was the best way I could still accommodate being at home to help while I could.


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## fitwife-menotsomuch (Mar 23, 2015)

I also make plenty of money with my career. We're sufficiently comfortable. She doesn't need to bring in income. MONEY is not an issue.



I also just recently got a new job that is within biking distance from home, so that means I'm considerably closer.


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