# Spin Off Post - Do WS suffer like we do?



## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

We discuss at length about the BW and OW. What about the WS's pain and suffering? Do they suffer even a little (in comparison to BS's)?

Usually, no one else knows besides the injured parties, maybe a family member or close friend because the BS is usually afraid of the fallout/looking dumb for staying, that sort of thing. The OM/OW is out of the picture but still in pain for losing their relationship. And the WS loses what exactly?? They get a brand new husband/wife. They get HB. They get the knowledge of having two people in love with them. They get to keep their comfy lives. UGH!

I see alot of stories about how they WS was crying on the floor and the like but that stuff is temporary. We carry this forever. Not sure if the OM/OW carries the pain because they can move on and start a brand new life with some NOT a cheater and a liar. 

Starting to seem a little unfair to me. Thoughts?


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

WS suffering? If laws are amended so that BS can go medieval on them.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

If you punch someone in the face and break your hand, does it hurt? Who hurts more you or the one you punched in the face? While you both may hurt, I doubt the person you slugged in the face is going to to have much sympathy for you, you didn't have to hit them in the face. The WS can and often does suffer greatly. In fact my WS suffers tremendously. IMHO unless the WS does suffer, reconciliation will be impossible. Do I feel sorry for her? Yes, because I love her. But I can never forget she did this to herself. According to her she never wants to feel this bad again. I hope so because neither do I.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

WS do suffer, but only if they are truly remorseful. A cheater that sees nothing wrong with what they did won't suffer. Why would they? But the ones who DO realize what they did and realize exactly how much suffering they've caused and vow to reform and never do it again and do what they need to do and do it successfully - yes, they suffer.

My husband suffers, and sometimes he tells me about it. But mostly he just takes it as his due. Playing the martyr in a way I guess, but I just let him.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

I will never feel like he lost or suffered as much as I have. He got to keep his family and reputation amongst everyone. (Those who know he cheated on me don't matter.) I trigger but he doesn't. He has no reason to unless he is triggering over some OW that he's not screwing now. It's Valentine's Day and all I see are roses from everyone's loved one. We celebrate but it's no longer the same. A few years ago, he was with her on VDay. Yeah I got candy he sent but she had him. So does he hate VDay like I do now? 

While I have days that will forever burn in my mind, he can try and be nice, give me hugs and kisses, but the stain will forever remain.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

brokeneric said:


> WS suffering? If laws are amended so that BS can go medieval on them.


Haha!! I love this post!!


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

It is not a contest to see who has suffered more. What is important is that you understand you are responsible for your own happiness. It is ok to love him but put your faith in God, not man. That simple little biblical edict has saved me so much suffering. Every time I started going down that rabbit hole, I just remembered that. Do not give anyone that power over you. Their decisions are theirs. Your decisions are yours.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Spin Off Post - Do WS suffer like we do?*



MovingAhead said:


> It is not a contest to see who has suffered more. What is important is that you understand you are responsible for your own happiness. It is ok to love him but put your faith in God, not man. That simple little biblical edict has saved me so much suffering. Every time I started going down that rabbit hole, I just remembered that. Do not give anyone that power over you. Their decisions are theirs. Your decisions are yours.



.....I agree that it's not a pain infliction contest with the WS on the short end of the stick. 

.....however, the WS .....I believe ....needs to be exposed to the full extent of the pain, anguish, self-doubt ...etc ...that the BS experiences ...up close and personal. If that is considered inflicting pain ...so be it. 

......I would never wish my pain upon my wife ...even though she is the one who caused it. But I think that she needs an 'education' of sorts ...to fully understand it. If ...she's a good student ...and learns only 50% of what I know and feel .....I think she can get an idea of what real suffering is all about. Her ..gaining real empathy ...is enough 'suffering' for me.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

For the most part, absolutely not. There are a few exceptions, which you see here. But most only suffer when the receipt arrives.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

The truly remorseful do but its different. To feel our pain, you must experience it yourself however, I do give credit to WS for their own type of pain. that is if they are remorseful.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Since we cannot literally "feel" the suffering that another endures, there is no possible way to measure or compare pain. As a former WS, I can tell you that I feel immense pain over the choices that I made with regard to betraying my husband and my children. It grieves me to see my husband suffer the consequences of my choices. It grieves me to know that for him, the price of loving me means having to bear the pain of my betrayal. He could have left me, he still could, but leaving me would not "turn off" his love for me, so it would not allow him to escape his pain. 

I want him to heal, and I want to heal, as well. We are one and we have chosen to remain as one. The "whole" cannot heal until the sum of all of the parts are healed. I am so blessed that B1 has chosen to turn towards me and not away from me. So, in choosing to reconcile our marriage, I don't wait for him to tell me what he needs, I actively, and enthusiastically, seek ways to heal his heart, and our marriage. That is how I heal myself. 

In saying this, if B1 were not the incredible man that he is, then all of my desires and all of my efforts would be for naught. If he were not the kind of man that he is, building our new life together would not be possible, nor would I have chosen to do so. He is choosing to give us an opportunity to rise above our former life. He does not seek to punish or to condemn me. He does not desire to keep me down, but instead to lift me up. He understands that while we may have a limited ability to control certain actions of others, we have no ability to control their heart. We are seeking ways to heal our hearts, together.

In true reconciliation we should not seek ways to make our spouse suffer, but instead to help our spouses, and ourselves, heal.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

We had some folks here who were both remorseful WS and BS in relationships. Their summary was that these are different kinds of suffering, but BS experience is way more taxing both physically and mentally.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

EI said:


> Since we cannot literally "feel" the suffering that another endures, there is no possible way to measure or compare pain. As a former WS, I can tell you that I feel immense pain over the choices that I made with regard to betraying my husband and my children. It grieves me to see my husband suffer the consequences of my choices. It grieves me to know that for him, the price of loving me means having to bear the pain of my betrayal. He could have left me, he still could, but leaving me would not "turn off" his love for me, so it would not allow him to escape his pain.
> 
> I want him to heal, and I want to heal, as well. We are one and we have chosen to remain as one. The "whole" cannot heal until the sum of all of the parts are healed. I am so blessed that B1 has chosen to turn towards me and not away from me. So, in choosing to reconcile our marriage, I don't wait for him to tell me what he needs, I actively, and enthusiastically, seek ways to heal his heart, and our marriage. That is how I heal myself.
> 
> ...


Very well said! Obviously you are 100% committed to your marriage and your spouse, and reading your thoughts on the topic shows us how it should be and how it can work. Just wanted to thank you for sharing and I wish you and your H well. :smthumbup:


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Do they suffer too?

Only the ones that matter do. R is probably a waste of time otherwise.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Just as physical pain comes in different forms and places, emotional and psychic pain comes in varieties. The BS is more likely to suffer shock, an emotional blow from a baseball bat. JustGrinding wrote brilliantly about it. I highly recommend reading his thread.

A horrible stomach ache is sometime not so incredibly painful but for the WS, perhaps they are tormented by waves of a sickening feeling, that their lives are going down the tubes because of their cheating.

Obviously, some WS are sensitive and some BS hard, so the capacity to feel pain differs among individuals. Addicts, alcoholics, etc. probably have more difficulty feeling pain because they are already damaged. When they recover, they will feel more.

WS may feel terrible pain when their children judge them and refuse to forgive.

WS may feel terrible pain when they realize they love their spouse and the AP was lying or false. Southirish's cheating wife felt no pain until she was rejected by the AP. He did not love her enough to divorce his wife. She thought about running away to the UK, her home country. Eventually, she reconciled with her husband. She calls her AP Voldemort.

If a person admits to themselves that they locked genitals with Voldemort, that is pain.

Infidelity is not only about pain. Mistrust, loss of innocence, depression, are all additional spices to make the stew vile.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> WS may feel terrible pain when they realize they love their spouse and the AP was lying or false. Southirish's cheating wife felt no pain until she was rejected by the AP. He did not love her enough to divorce his wife. She thought about running away to the UK, her home country. Eventually, she reconciled with her husband. She calls her AP Voldemort.
> 
> If a person admits to themselves that they locked genitals with Voldemort, that is pain.
> 
> Infidelity is not only about pain. Mistrust, loss of innocence, depression, are all additional spices to make the stew vile.



So she only went back to her husband because she couldn't have the other guy? How is he dealing with that? Her husband was the fall back plan and he is fully aware of it? What made him become Voldermort because it seems she was all in until he didn't commit.


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

It really galls me to be painted in the same stroke of the brush as a WS that willingly strays to cause pain.

I am a WS, I had a ONS. These are facts I will not and cannot dispute. But the very next morning, I immediately felt guilt, fear of rejection from my husband, and a host of other emotions. Was my situation slightly different from the average WS? Probably, but it doesn't change the facts that I am one. I have spent the last four years trying to prove to myself that I won't let it happen again. As far as I know, my husband believes me when I say I will NEVER stray again.

Comparing who has more pain is to me as childish as comparing who has the cooler parents. Yes there is pain felt on both sides, but instead of focusing on how much it hurt, how about focusing on how you are going to never allow it into your relationship again?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

in my case, my wife suffered far more than i did. i didnt really feel betrayed. 

my wife had developed a close friendship with the next door neighbors wife. we often hung out together with her and her husband. well, one night when i and the neighbors husband were at work, she got my wife drunk and well, you know.

i was pretty pissed off at the neighbor for that. so was my wife. but, as she already said, she woke up feeling remorseful. she broke all contact immediately.

i didnt really feel betrayed by my wife. i felt betrayed by the neighbor. to this day, it pisses me off. she prayed on my wife and i feel like i should have done more to hold her accountable. 

so, yeah, Akinaura suffered a hell of a lot more than i did.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Akinaura said:


> It really galls me to be painted in the same stroke of the brush as a WS that willingly strays to cause pain.
> 
> I am a WS, I had a ONS. These are facts I will not and cannot dispute. But the very next morning, I immediately felt guilt, fear of rejection from my husband, and a host of other emotions. Was my situation slightly different from the average WS? Probably, but it doesn't change the facts that I am one. I have spent the last four years trying to prove to myself that I won't let it happen again. As far as I know, my husband believes me when I say I will NEVER stray again.
> 
> Comparing who has more pain is to me as childish as comparing who has the cooler parents. Yes there is pain felt on both sides, but instead of focusing on how much it hurt, how about focusing on how you are going to never allow it into your relationship again?


I would truthfully bet that very few WS stray strictly to cause pain, so that comparison/ assumption that they are different is false and flawed, just like you assuming that your ONS is different than most other WS strays (like they were all meant to just hurt the BS, most were only meant to make the WS feel good and fill a void, the same yours did at the time). From your BH's account you had a close friendship, so I would say that you possibly had an EA (whether you think it so or not I bet the OW would think otherwise), so it was more than a ONS. It was an EA that led to being PA, which I would bet are what most WS strays are classified as well??

I also don't agree on mainly focusing upon how to keep it out of your relationship in the future. That is a big part, but If you don't or aren't willing to focus on how bad it hurt, you will never be able to see what is needed to help the BS heal completely. I agree that the WS is hurt by their actions, but the level felt could never be the same as that by the BS, as they were the one that enjoyed the activity and have the full knowledge of everything so they can see what they need to heal and move on, whereas the BS has to rely on this sympathy/ empathy of the WS (if it even exists) to do the same. Pain inflicted by others is generally levels worse than that we inflict upon ourselves.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I can answer this one for you...yes the truely remorseful WS suffers. They have to live with the knowledge of what they did and the pain they caused their spouse for the rest of their lives. Big guy suffers alot over his past, it may be 13 years ago but it might as well have been yesterday to him. The pain in his eyes when he looks at me and say he is truely sorry. I now wish for the day he can forgive himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> I would truthfully bet that very few WS stray strictly to cause pain, so that comparison/ assumption that they are different is false and flawed, just like you assuming that your ONS is different than most other WS strays (like they were all meant to just hurt the BS, most were only meant to make the WS feel good and fill a void, the same yours did at the time). From your BH's account you had a close friendship, so I would say that you possibly had an EA (whether you think it so or not I bet the OW would think otherwise), so it was more than a ONS. It was an EA that led to being PA, which I would bet are what most WS strays are classified as well??
> 
> I also don't agree on mainly focusing upon how to keep it out of your relationship in the future. That is a big part, but If you don't or aren't willing to focus on how bad it hurt, you will never be able to see what is needed to help the BS heal completely. I agree that the WS is hurt by their actions, but the level felt could never be the same as that by the BS, as they were the one that enjoyed the activity and have the full knowledge of everything so they can see what they need to heal and move on, whereas the BS has to rely on this sympathy/ empathy of the WS (if it even exists) to do the same. Pain inflicted by others is generally levels worse than that we inflict upon ourselves.


i would like to paint a picture for you so you more fully understand what akinaura went through.

brand new married couple, husband is in the military. they dont have much, so they go for base housing. since they were new to the area, their next door neighbors offered to show them around and help them get adjusted to the military community and life. over the next several months, the two couples start to spend a lot of time relaxing together on weekends. they started watching each others kids back and forth so that they could get some time off. older couple introduces the younger couple to online gaming, dungeons and dragons, and other such nerdy stuff. younger couple introduces the older couple to the aquarium hobby, fishing, outdoor survival and field-craft. 

eventually we end up hanging out most of our weekends and often during the week, all together, all as a group. there are several times when younger husband or older husband is working, and they both are always fully aware of what the group is doing without them. all communications between the two couples are completely open, nothing is hidden.

then, after about a year, it just so happens that both old husband and young husband both have 24 shifts to work at the same time. older wife invites younger wife over to play an online game, and starts to feed her alcohol. younger wife doesnt think much of it because they often share drinks together as a group. older wife plys younger wife until she is VERY drunk. 

older wife takes advantage of her when she is completely intoxicated.

next morning, younger wife can barely look her husband in the eye, is a complete wreck, but immediately tells him what happened. she and her husband break contact with older couple immediately. older wife protests, and tries to convince younger wife that her husband could join the "fun". they never speak again after that.

younger wife spends years trying to get past the emotional damage from that one night. she is still not able to form close friendships outside of the marriage. 

in the meantime, younger husband comes up with a list of rules to follow so that his wife will feel safe, knowing that it cannot happen again. 


now, does that sound like a typical wayward spouse to you?
it doesn't to me.

to me, it doesnt sound like a wayward spouse at all.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i would like to paint a picture for you so you more fully understand what akinaura went through.
> 
> brand new married couple, husband is in the military. they dont have much, so they go for base housing. since they were new to the area, their next door neighbors offered to show them around and help them get adjusted to the military community and life. over the next several months, the two couples start to spend a lot of time relaxing together on weekends. they started watching each others kids back and forth so that they could get some time off. older couple introduces the younger couple to online gaming, dungeons and dragons, and other such nerdy stuff. younger couple introduces the older couple to the aquarium hobby, fishing, outdoor survival and field-craft.
> 
> ...


Not going to debate points with you. You have your knowledge of what was happening and said, but that might not be the exact and full information. I was in the military as well and low that the base housing was a cesspool of bad behavior and promiscuity. Just because you didn't see the friendship as hidden or inappropriate, doesn't mean it was not an EA, or couldn't be one? Unless she was raped, she was a willing participant and that is the same as lotus of WS situations, the alcohol is not an excuse, just as we tell all the other WS that come here and try to claim that was the cause of all their issues. The fact is that the alcohol lowered the inhibitions and allowed what they wanted to happen occur. Which sounds just like every other WS PA situation, and not different. If you want to believe otherwise, then that is your prerogative, but I don't agree or see it as any different than other WS A situations.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

most waywards don't wake up the day after it went physical with an intense hatred for their affair partner...

it may have started as an EA. who knows. i know there was no hidden communications, she wasnt hiding anything from me.


the number one tool used by a sexual predator is alcohol. it turns it into a social gray area.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> ...
> the number one tool used by a sexual predator is alcohol. it turns it into a social gray area.


Actually the number one tool of the sexual predator is flattery. Win over their ego and you win the game. And it is a game to a lot of them, maybe most of them, especially men. Most workplace affairs start during work, not afterwards. Alcohol is just the excuse they use later.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

HarryDoyle said:


> Actually the number one tool of the sexual predator is flattery. Win over their ego and you win the game. And it is a game to a lot of them, maybe most of them, especially men. Most workplace affairs start during work, not afterwards. Alcohol is just the excuse they use later.


players use flattery.

predators use everything.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

asia said:


> So she only went back to her husband because she couldn't have the other guy? How is he dealing with that? Her husband was the fall back plan and he is fully aware of it? What made him become Voldermort because it seems she was all in until he didn't commit.


Try posting on his wall to ask?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i would like to paint a picture for you so you more fully understand what akinaura went through.
> 
> brand new married couple, husband is in the military. they dont have much, so they go for base housing. since they were new to the area, their next door neighbors offered to show them around and help them get adjusted to the military community and life. over the next several months, the two couples start to spend a lot of time relaxing together on weekends. they started watching each others kids back and forth so that they could get some time off. older couple introduces the younger couple to online gaming, dungeons and dragons, and other such nerdy stuff. younger couple introduces the older couple to the aquarium hobby, fishing, outdoor survival and field-craft.
> 
> ...


Sounds more like rape?
If your wife was incoherent, it was assault. But even seriously drunk, if someone started messing with my junk, I wouldn't let it keep going.

Sounds like she was assaulted. But if she claims ons I won't argue. Would you have felt different if she had gotten drunk and slept with a man?

Sorry you two experienced this. Kinda weird though. I would have to be out to let the same sex have their way with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Sounds more like rape?
> If your wife was incoherent, it was assault. But even seriously drunk, if someone started messing with my junk, I wouldn't let it keep going.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i dont know. she remembers it like she remembers a dream... pretty vague. 

i have received a lot of training in behavioral symptom analysis(human intelligence), so i feel confident that she is being honest about it.

personally, i feel like she was taken advantage of, but i wont argue with her either. 

she has done everything right since then. 
she still suffers from it though.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i dont know. she remembers it like she remembers a dream... pretty vague.
> 
> i have received a lot of training in behavioral symptom analysis(human intelligence), so i feel confident that she is being honest about it.
> 
> ...


Damn. Really sorry to hear that. It really sounds like she was incoherent. I do not think she was able to give informed consent. 

I am really sorry she was traumatized by this. It does sound like she was assaulted.

I hope your wife can get healthy again. I also hope that b!itch that did this had repercussions. What did her H do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Damn. Really sorry to hear that. It really sounds like she was incoherent. I do not think she was able to give informed consent.
> 
> I am really sorry she was traumatized by this. It does sound like she was assaulted.
> 
> ...


her H rugsweped the whole thing. i kinda feel like i did the same thing by not going after them. she had four kids, and i couldn't bring myself to crush her because of them. i still feel guilty about it. i feel like i didn't do enough to protect my wife, and i feel like i let her get away with it. i wont ever make that mistake again.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

to this day i feel like i failed my wife. she came to me the morning after and offered an uncontested divorce, where i would have full custody of our child. she was willing to let me go and do whatever i wanted to do. that told me that she did not feel worthy of reconciliation. she virtually put her neck to the chopping block. willingly.

i decided to use it as a learning experience and try to help her get past it and grow stronger. she now is fully confident that a similar situation will NEVER happen again. so am i. 

i can tell you one thing... akinaura is a hell of a strong woman. this is not even close to the worst betrayal she has experienced, but she still chooses to love me regardless. 

it does not go unnoticed.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> the number one tool used by a sexual predator is alcohol.


Wrong that number one tool they use would be their mind! They use their knowledge of the situation and the weaknesses of the prey in order to take advantage of whatever those weaknesses may be (be it loneliness, someone to validate them, weakness in alcohol, insecurities, etc). They use this knowledge they gather from their interactions with the prey to chose the best method to overcome them.

Remember players are sexual predators as well and don't get their own little special category.


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## KeepingUpAppearances (Jul 14, 2013)

I think it depends on the person. I told my husband he did Not suffer or he would have broken it off. It was fun and pleasure for both of them. It was 100% hurt and pain for me. He could never suffer like I do.

There may be a few that feel remorse and understand the depth of their wrong doings. The suffering of the WS could never compare to BS.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I am in awe of your attitude toward your wife...it is obvious that you both love each other very very much.
> 
> My question is this...if it had been the husband instead of the wife who did this to your wife...would your reaction have been the same? Just for discussion purposes...would you so easily have forgiven? would you have filed rape charges? etc
> I understand how hard that is to answer because we cannot really speculate circumstances. this is NOT meant to sound judgmental in any way!
> ...


i have thought about it a lot...

i think i would have reacted the same way towards my wife, but i probably would have informed his chain of command. adultery is illegal in the army.
as it was, my wife didn't want to file charges. she just felt extremely guilty. it took a couple of hospitalizations and a lot of therapy to move past it.

even if i feel like she wanted what happened, sought it out, etc...
her reaction is why i had no problem with reconciliation. 
i would focus on the same thing i had always focused on from the beginning: helping my wife grow into the best person she can be. 
happy, confident, and free.


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