# Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself



## Letterman2810

My wife and I have been married a little over two years. I've been in her life for a little over three years. My wife has a daughter from a previous relationship. The daughter thinks of me as her father. My wife had a short term relationship with the father and got pregnant. After she got pregnant he didn't want to have anything to do with her or the baby. If you heard my wife tell the story "he kicked them to the curb." When the baby was born he came to the hospital but never offered any financial support for the baby. The only contact would be in the middle of the night when he was drunk and he wanted companionship from my wife. At one point before I met her she was struggling financially and tried to collect child support. The father received a letter in the mail that wanted him to submit to a paternity test. He contacted my wife and said instead of going through the process of making it official, why on the just give her some mo eu each month. She told him to keep it, if he didn't want to officially claim his child... They didn't need him. I came into their lives shortly after and took on the role as Dad. I have embraced her as my own and love her like my own. Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two. When talking about the father with my wife it's always been touchy. She has proclaimed she hated him for rejecting her and the baby. I can understand why. Earlier this week, the father took his own life. My wife called me crying. I tried to be supportive and strong for her. Then she reached out to his friends for details. Then we became friends with his friends on our mutual Facebook page. I started seeing these tributes to this guy from his friends. I struggled with them bc they make him out to be this great family guy. Then my wife started liking the post. And I noticed her feelings changing towards him. The only sadness I feel is for my daughter. Bc she will never have the opportunity to meet her birth father. My wife is saddened for him and is mourning Bc she now tells me she has feelings for him. She is saddened for him Bc he felt alone when he died. I feel like he made choices in his life which led to that including abandoning her and her child. I feel betrayed by this Bc she talks to me like I'm the bad guy in all of this. This guy was not a good person. He turned his back on his child and my wife and treated her badly. I'm hurt Bc I'm the one who stepped up to be a Dad and love them.


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## Lostinthought61

This is a tough one, because she is in a perpetual fog, elevating someone who kicked her to the curb to sainthood. The problem is that being dead his true self is locked away in memories that are now distorted. Now you could take the tact of reminding her of the dead beat he is but that will only reflecting badly for you and make him that saint or you could suck it up and grieve with her until it passes....and maybe she reclaims sanity about his true self...or if you had enough you could kick her to the curb until you become saint in her eyes when she does a comparison down the road. Definitely tough when your competing a distorted truth.


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## LonelyinLove

Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee. 


- John Donne

Death has a way of hiding the bad stuff, at least for a minute. He was part of her history and no matter what a creep he was, part of her timeline is now gone, and in a very sad way. Let her grieve. She'll move on soon.


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## 2ntnuf

The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. She always had feelings for him. She never truly moved on. His death and the manner in which he died caused her to feel guilty and brought those feelings and distortions into the light of day. He had some problems that weren't his fault and likely led to his decision to refuse to fight for his rights as a father. He may have known and just could not commit to the responsibilities that go along with being a father. He likely couldn't handle the pressure, and offered what he could. She needs to talk to a professional to work through all of her mixed feelings. She needs support.


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## Yeswecan

Letterman2810 said:


> My wife and I have been married a little over two years. I've been in her life for a little over three years. My wife has a daughter from a previous relationship. The daughter thinks of me as her father. My wife had a short term relationship with the father and got pregnant. After she got pregnant he didn't want to have anything to do with her or the baby. If you heard my wife tell the story "he kicked them to the curb." When the baby was born he came to the hospital but never offered any financial support for the baby. The only contact would be in the middle of the night when he was drunk and he wanted companionship from my wife. At one point before I met her she was struggling financially and tried to collect child support. The father received a letter in the mail that wanted him to submit to a paternity test. He contacted my wife and said instead of going through the process of making it official, why on the just give her some mo eu each month. She told him to keep it, if he didn't want to officially claim his child... They didn't need him. I came into their lives shortly after and took on the role as Dad. I have embraced her as my own and love her like my own. Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two. When talking about the father with my wife it's always been touchy. She has proclaimed she hated him for rejecting her and the baby. I can understand why. Earlier this week, the father took his own life. My wife called me crying. I tried to be supportive and strong for her. Then she reached out to his friends for details. Then we became friends with his friends on our mutual Facebook page. I started seeing these tributes to this guy from his friends. I struggled with them bc they make him out to be this great family guy. Then my wife started liking the post. And I noticed her feelings changing towards him. The only sadness I feel is for my daughter. Bc she will never have the opportunity to meet her birth father. My wife is saddened for him and is mourning Bc she now tells me she has feelings for him. She is saddened for him Bc he felt alone when he died. I feel like he made choices in his life which led to that including abandoning her and her child. I feel betrayed by this Bc she talks to me like I'm the bad guy in all of this. This guy was not a good person. He turned his back on his child and my wife and treated her badly. I'm hurt Bc I'm the one who stepped up to be a Dad and love them.


The deceased is being martyred. Soon Sainthood will be bestowed.

You are staying in this relationship because...?


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## EVG39

Letterman, sorry you are going through this. What is really hard is that you did all the right things and he did all the wrong things by civilized society's rules and yet now you find your wife sitting there pining for her dead lover. Got to be a hard blow to absorb and definitely not right. If it helps to label it (and maybe I doesn't) the phenomenon you are dealing with is the plight of the "Alpha Widow". Literally in this case. I could try to describe it here but there are plenty of resources for you on the Net to look at that do it far better than I ever could. Take a look and see if that doesn't really describe what you are dealing with. In the meantime stop trying to reason her out of it. Logic doesn't apply in these situations. Know however though that you are a good and decent man for doing what you did. But do learn from this experience.


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## Blondilocks

"Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two."

Please rectify this situation.

As difficult as it may be, biting your tongue is the best course for now. She's probably in shock & doesn't want to be seen as talking ill of the dead.

I certainly wouldn't tolerate being treated like the bad guy, though. Boundaries and all.


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## bandit.45

I recommend you remain stoic.

Women are emotional creatures. They get caught up in this sh!t like a tidal wave. Sometimes you just have to stay on high ground and let the wave bore through. 

Step back out of it and let her mourn him. Be there if she needs a hug, but do not let her abuse you or take her wrath out on you. Set that boundary hard and firm. 

Ask her if it would help her to get her some grief counseling. Keep being the best dad to her daughter you can be.


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## EleGirl

This reminds me of something that happened to me. 

I married a guy when I was 22. The relationship was bad. He was abusive. I divorced him. (that's the short story).

Some years later I got the news through the grape vine that he had committed suicide. 

Now this is a guy how I would not be in the same room with because of his behavior. I had zero good feelings for him. 

But when I heard that he died, it upset me for a while. The first night I just sat up all night and could not turn my mind off thinking about this guy who I never wanted to think about. Some how his suicide shook me.

Your wife might be having a similar reaction. But with the addition of social media, she unfortunately has people who talk to about this who are distorting reality. 

How many people does she know who have died? If the number is 0 to few, it might even be her own mortality that she is actually grieving... he's just the surrogate.

She cannot help that his death has some effect on her. But she can stop the social media nonsense so that she gets over this. Some grief counseling, with you involved might help.

Sit her down and tell her very clearly how this is hurting you. That since he mistreated both her and her daughter (how is now your daughter) because he threw them out is hurting you and you expect her to start respecting the your and face reality.


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## 2ntnuf

You got that idea from the police thread, didn't you? It's a shame that you can't see it's different points of view rather than lies and distortions. Many are influenced by others, not just social media. Social media is less reliable because it usually only involves opinions with little facts to back them. Never believe opinions alone are the only reality. There are many and the best are backed by facts and reality. 

I think he does need to consider this when he thinks of her feelings. Though, like another member posted, don't let her cross boundaries. There is a limit to what can be accepted without doing harm to a relationship, and, it's really her problem and she needs counseling with some support from you.


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## Pablodiablo

You need to be confident in your role as a father and a husband. You also need to realize that you married a woman with baggage. A lot of men feel like they rescue a woman who has been left by a deadbeat. There should be nothing distinguishing the children in your marriage. To do this lends itself to acknowledge the "I came in and picked up the slack mentality." He walked out on them. The relationship didn't exactly end on her terms so she probably hasn't had an effective closure. Keep in mind they created a child together, that is a bond you can not break. Be the rock you pride yourself on being, put your self aside like the man is supposed to do once in a while and see your wife through this. She'll love you more for it.


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## RoseAglow

It's a tough line to walk- being there for while she experiences the sadness, but not accepting that you are the bad guy. I think it is OK to separate the two with/for her: "I am here for you while you grieve, even though I don't understand it; I am here, I am your husband, I am not the cause of this."

It's a bit different but my ex-fiance died a few years ago. My poor husband was there when I got the call, we were on vacation with my family. He watched as both me, my sister, and my mom broke out into tears. He just gave us all hugs. He didn't blink as we all talked about my ex, the good and the bad. The ex and I didn't end up getting married because he fell into an addiction and never recovered (and in fact, it was the cause of his death.) Husband didn't blink when I drove myself 2 hours each way to sit shiva with the ex's family. And, even though he thinks it's weird, husband is OK with me and our son meeting up with his family on occasion. He is invited if he ever wanted to go, but understandably, it's a little weird for him and he has declined to do so. I can't tell you how much I appreciate him for this.


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## sparrow555

I would suggest that you don't do anything but observe for sometime. death is a strange thing and people often react irrationally. 

But to be honest, the way she reacted seems that she wanted someone to replace him when he was gone and help her raise the kid. She might not love you like a wife but you serve a purpose of giving her a family and help her raise a kid with a father. 

How does she treat you usually ? Who's idea was the marriage ? Does she need you financially ? Does she plan to have kids with you ?


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## sisters359

You will gain nothing by acting like this is all about you. Yes, insist on being treated kindly, decently, and lovingly--but do not make her talk/grief about *him* into something it isn't. She obviously cared for him and he was the father of her child--you will gain nothing by trying to prove you are "better" than him and so, rationally, she should only love you and never think fondly of this scumbag. 

Instead, you need to be the good guy that you are--cheerful, supportive, and not jealous of a ghost. Trust that you will be able to demonstrate, time and again, that you deserve her love and attention.

Be in this for the long haul--this will likely take months, not weeks. Be very clear that you will not tolerate mistreatment, but you will not consider her grief "mistreatment" of you. If she needs to talk about him, for example, you do not need to listen--but you can take the kids somewhere so she can call a family member. 

And be prepared to leave if she refuses to stop treating you as the bad guy. You cannot win by setting a boundary and then constantly letting her cross it. 

In a way, you need to do the 180 and leave her to find her way to you, as though you had discovered she was having an affair and she was in that fog. No unkindness toward her, few demands--but absolutely expecting respectful treatment and kindness from her. 

If it goes on longer than you can stand, get marriage counseling. Some people get stuck in the drama (not the real grief) of being the sufferer. To hell with that! But only you can decide what is "too long" for you, and you will need to be prepared to end the marriage if she cannot come around after marriage counseling, or the marriage would be awful. Good luck!


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## Letterman2810

Thank you everyone for comments. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the outpouring of support from you. An update. Two months has passed since the funeral. She went, she took our 5 year old daughter against my wishes, and told me I shouldn't go. Our daughter had no idea who he was. Her rationale of taking her to the funeral was to try to convince the siblings to sign an afadavit so that a DNA test could be ran to prove paternity. She wanted benefits for our daughter to apply towards college. It was a very difficult day for us as a family. I took a step back and allowed her to do what she needed. That night I took her out to dinner to just listen to her. For the past week I felt like she had pushed me aside. She told me she broke down at the funeral. I just listened witjout judgement and just offered support. The next couple weeks were no easier. She got upset at her coworkers bc they didn't get her a sympathy card.She would make these photo collages of side by side comparisons of her ex and our daughter. Like she was trying to obsess over the similarities. She continued to reach out to his siblings to obtain the consent. She asked me what to say to them. I'm a communications director in my career so I helped develop talking points for her to state her case to them. The brother agreed to the consent. All seemed well. My wife suggested maybe having a barbecue and inviting the brother and his family over. I concurred. Then we are laying in bed at 10 pm and the brother texted my wife asking her for money. When his brother died he got his brothers car which had a loan on it. He wanted money to help pay for it be it supposedly meant a lot to him. He even took a photo of his son in front of the car to send to my wife. My wife showed me the text and I told her I'm really sorry he sent her that. She was at first angry at him. She responded the next morning that we were not in a position to help him with that. He apologized and said he was drunk and sent it to several people. She forgave him and asked me to not say anything to our family. Meanwhile we started seeing a counselor. I shared this w her and she agreed this is a red flag. I said I'm not opposed to allowing these people to have a relationship with our daughter but I want to get to know them first. My a wife agreed but has backtracked. She insisted that we tell our daughter the truth. That's what the father's family wants and they want to see my daughter. Her own family didn't agree w that. However I got raked across the coals pretty hard by them during the week of the funeral. I told them I was neutral on the issue and I was going to support my wife. No matter what I was just going to reinforce to my daughter i am her Dad and I'm gonna be there. So we told her the truth. I tried to relate it to my own two kids bc they have me and a stepdad. My daughters knows the stepdad by name. I said what if I told u, u have two dads. She said no Daddy u are my only Dad. I love u. Man.... I melted. Everything trial, every sacrifice... Over the past three years was worth it. I then talked about my two dads. She knows my stepdad and that my dad passed away. I said honey before I became ur daddy... U had a special daddy named..... she didn't say much.. Didn't ask questions. Just clung to me. I told my wife. We agreed not to make this a big deal. Now we have told her and we leave it alone until she has questions. I don't want to force this on her. The Facebook bantering is continuing between my wife and his family. Today my wife responded to his sisters post by saying my daughter looks just like him w a . My own family saw that. It hurt my feelings. I told my wife it hurt my feelings. Her response was I'm a baby and she doesn't care and doesn't feel guilty.


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## GusPolinski

Death has a way of making sinners into saints, at least in the eyes of _some_ of those that are left behind.


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## Letterman2810

I love my family. My wife and my children are my everything. I feel disrespected by the way shes acting towards her ex. I feel like all of a sudden she is proud of the fact he is our daughters father while minimizing the role I play.


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## GusPolinski

Letterman2810 said:


> I love my family. My wife and my children are my everything. I feel disrespected by the way shes acting towards her ex. I feel like all of a sudden she is proud of the fact he is our daughters father while minimizing the role I play.


How clearly have you communicated this to her?

My wife is currently dealing w/ a similar issue, though sort of "in reverse", if you will. Her father passed away recently. The guy could be -- and, more often that not, to be honest, was -- a real bastard, and she's having a hard time dealing w/ the fact that much of her family (mostly her aunts, along w/ some of her half-siblings and cousins, HIS friends, and -- to a lesser degree -- her mother) is all too ready to overlook all of that.

As she's the oldest of his seven children, she's had a front-row seat to ALL of it for much of her life, and she's really struggling w/ the dichotomy.


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> How clearly have you communicated this to her?
> 
> My wife is currently dealing w/ a similar issue, though sort of "in reverse", if you will. Her father passed away recently. The guy could be -- and, more often that not, to be honest, was -- a real bastard, and she's having a hard time dealing w/ the fact that much of her family (mostly her aunts, along w/ some of her half-siblings and cousins, HIS friends, and -- to a lesser degree -- her mother) is all too ready to overlook all of that.
> 
> As she's the oldest of his seven children, she's had a front-row seat to ALL of it for much of her life, and she's really struggling w/ the dichotomy.


FOO issues really suck


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## EleGirl

Has the DNA test been done yet? 

Does your wife know whether or not the DNA test will help establish paternity so that your daughter can get benefits? 
I do not recall if you have adopted your daughter. That might make a difference in your right to refuse her from seeing her birth-family.

In the future, if the other guy comes up, don't talk about him as the father/dad. He's a birth-father (aka sperm donor). Call him her birth-father (or bio-dad). Make that distinction. It's insulting to your daughter to have her now being told to pretend that he was anything else to her.


It's time for your wife to move away from all this.


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## Affaircare

I'll pipe in here. 

My mother beat me when I was a child, and I mean she grabbed a broomstick and hit me with it until SHE was tired. I was like 12 when it started. 

My dad is an alcoholic who goes between being a dry drunk and being a case-a-day man. He cheated on my mom to marry his affair partner. He did accounting for a living and when exH and I owned a restaurant, I asked him to keep our books--he embezzled from us.

So my relationships with my parents is "strained" at best. I'm not hostile toward them (I won't give them the satisfaction) but I also don't invite them to the house for tea every afternoon either (giggle). And yet when my father dies, I will mourn. When my mother dies, I will mourn. 

I will mourn that he wasn't a nurturing man to me--that I was a child and he didn't protect me. I will mourn that she was too afraid to face her demons rather than admit she needed help to protect me. I will mourn that people who were supposed to "love" me treated me so hurtfully. I will mourn that they couldn't see that I needed them to rise up and face themselves FOR ME. I will mourn that the potential for a better relationship died with them. I will MOURN.

In the same way, your wife is mourning....not the man he actually was (the jerk who threw her and their child into the street), but the potential. Parts of her wanted him to be a good dad. Parts of her wanted him to see his daughter and melt like you did. Parts of her saw the good in him and hoped/wished/prayed that the good would win. And she is mourning the loss of ALL THAT. She's mourning the loss of something that didn't exist but she wished it did: him as the better man she wished he was! It's like she is mourning losing the illusion. 

Does that make sense? He was an @$$ and she knows that. You show your love and commitment to her and her child DAILY just by being there! But she is mourning losing the illusion that maybe "one day" he's love his little girl. Losing an illusion...a wish...that hope... is hard and very painful.


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## tom67

Affaircare said:


> I'll pipe in here.
> 
> My mother beat me when I was a child, and I mean she grabbed a broomstick and hit me with it until SHE was tired. I was like 12 when it started.
> 
> My dad is an alcoholic who goes between being a dry drunk and being a case-a-day man. He cheated on my mom to marry his affair partner. He did accounting for a living and when exH and I owned a restaurant, I asked him to keep our books--he embezzled from us.
> 
> So my relationships with my parents is "strained" at best. I'm not hostile toward them (I won't give them the satisfaction) but I also don't invite them to the house for tea every afternoon either (giggle). And yet when my father dies, I will mourn. When my mother dies, I will mourn.
> 
> I will mourn that he wasn't a nurturing man to me--that I was a child and he didn't protect me. I will mourn that she was too afraid to face her demons rather than admit she needed help to protect me. I will mourn that people who were supposed to "love" me treated me so hurtfully. I will mourn that they couldn't see that I needed them to rise up and face themselves FOR ME. I will mourn that the potential for a better relationship died with them. I will MOURN.
> 
> In the same way, your wife is mourning....not the man he actually was (the jerk who threw her and their child into the street), but the potential. Parts of her wanted him to be a good dad. Parts of her wanted him to see his daughter and melt like you did. Parts of her saw the good in him and hoped/wished/prayed that the good would win. And she is mourning the loss of ALL THAT. She's mourning the loss of something that didn't exist but she wished it did: him as the better man she wished he was! It's like she is mourning losing the illusion.
> 
> Does that make sense? He was an @$$ and she knows that. You show your love and commitment to her and her child DAILY just by being there! But she is mourning losing the illusion that maybe "one day" he's love his little girl. Losing an illusion...a wish...that hope... is hard and very painful.


Spot on:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## bandit.45

I disagree. 

I say pull way back. There is supporting the one you love, and then there is letting yourself get trampled on. She's not going to sway from the direction she is going. Don't make anymore long term plans with her. Start living for yourself. 

I don't trust this woman. The more you describe her the more immature, selfish and narcissistic she comes across. She seems to like drama, she wants to be the center of attention, she is going to make her ex's family sit up and take notice of her come hell or high water. It seems like it is all more about her than her ex. I think the reason your family is getting bent out of shape is because they see things for what they really are. You are being exploited and they are trying to show you that. 

You need to stop now and stay out of her business with this. You are becoming obsessed with it and it makes you look weak. Read Glover's No More Mr. nice Guy and apply its principles. Detach. I see some codependent traits in you and it might benefit you to get some counseling for it.


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## NextTimeAround

Dovetailing Bandit here, it seems that you are annoyd that the CAD gets revered in death while the good thigs that you have done have gone unnoticed.

You're feeling it already. So you need to let her know that there is a certain amount of time that she can grieve this guy and then she needs to quit. Or else she will always see you as second choice to the CAD.

and this:


> Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two.


Why are you treating this man's baby better than you treat your own.


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## Letterman2810

No, I have not adopted her as of yet. Let me clarify my statement about treating our daughter better than my own two children. My wife's daughter receives a significant more portion of my time because we have her full-time and I only have my two kids every other weekend. I understand my wife wants this family to be part of my daughters life. Her rationale is they signed the DNA test. Yes it came back to be his. She said they are grieving their brother and want to hang onto our daughter as the only piece of him left. I can sympathize. But, my first priority is my family. Our daughter spoke pretty clearly how she felt. Why is it necessary to bring them into our daughters life now? They have young kids who know her dad and U.S. dead and may know he killed himself. That's not something I want our daughter to hear. I feel like my wife is pushing this. I want my wife to wake up and acknowledge who has been there the past three years raising our daughter. I want my wife to speak up and tell these people why our daughter may rememble her birth father, she has a Dad and that Dad is me. I want her to be protective of that, not these peoples feelings or whatever she is hanging onto.


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## EVG39

Letterman,
I wrote my post some time ago and I am sorry that things still haven't gotten any better. I was kind of afraid of that. When I wrote earlier I referred to your wife as an "alpha Widow". Literally. Here is what I meant in detail.
Rollo Tomassi, of Rational Male, laid out a concept of an "alpha widow". This is a woman who sleeps with alphas in her 20s and, as a result, refuses to "compromise" for a beta male later on (or does so, grudgingly). This is true even in the case (and is mostly the case) where the alpha male discards the woman unceremoniously after he has his way with her. She still holds him above all others whatever his poor behavior and pines over him, sometimes for decades.
His death was a trigger for her for sure but I suspect this is what was beneath the surface all along. The death just brought it out in the open. Your exemplary behaviors which I and others on this board find good and decent just reminded her your "betaness" as compared to the dead alpha. Especially highlighted by the fact that you are willing to support and raise the alpha's child. You would think she would be grateful. And maybe she appeared to be on the outside but on a subconscious level I think she believed it to be an open acknowledgement by you of your inferiority. I know this is harsh. I know it sounds very primitive. And I hate saying but it just seems so true in your case that I think it important that you understand what you are dealing with so you can deal with her with eyes wide open.
Sorry, but I don't know if its fixable or even if you should try and fix it. I would start thinking about all my options.


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## tom67

EVG39 said:


> Letterman,
> I wrote my post some time ago and I am sorry that things still haven't gotten any better. I was kind of afraid of that. When I wrote earlier I referred to your wife as an "alpha Widow". Literally. Here is what I meant in detail.
> Rollo Tomassi, of Rational Male, laid out a concept of an "alpha widow". This is a woman who sleeps with alphas in her 20s and, as a result, refuses to "compromise" for a beta male later on (or does so, grudgingly). This is true even in the case (and is mostly the case) where the alpha male discards the woman unceremoniously after he has his way with her. She still holds him above all others whatever his poor behavior and pines over him, sometimes for decades.
> His death was a trigger for her for sure but I suspect this is what was beneath the surface all along. The death just brought it out in the open. Your exemplary behaviors which I and others on this board find good and decent just reminded her your "betaness" as compared to the dead alpha. Especially highlighted by the fact that you are willing to support and raise the alpha's child. You would think she would be grateful. And maybe she appeared to be on the outside but on a subconscious level I think she believed it to be an open acknowledgement by you of your inferiority. I know this is harsh. I know it sounds very primitive. And I hate saying but it just seems so true in your case that I think it important that you understand what you are dealing with so you can deal with her with eyes wide open.
> Sorry, but I don't know if its fixable or even if you should try and fix it. I would start thinking about all my options.


:iagree:
Google "women and the limbic/reptilian brain"
biology has a role in this.


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## lifeistooshort

I think you are being disrespected. Big time. 
I know you love your wife and kids but I would seriously rethink staying in this marriage, at least the way it is. Your wife is involved in a little fantasy with ex's family and he has been elevated to saint status as is so often the case with the dead. 

It's possible she'll come out of it, especially if for some reason his family cuts her off, but the baby comment directed towards you is very telling. What's also telling is that she insisted you not go to the funeral. 

You are not part of her little fantasy life, your are good for support as it suits her. I would really think about whether this is how you want to live your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Letterman2810 said:


> No, I have not adopted her as of yet. Let me clarify my statement about treating our daughter better than my own two children. My wife's daughter receives a significant more portion of my time because we have her full-time and I only have my two kids every other weekend. I understand my wife wants this family to be part of my daughters life. Her rationale is they signed the DNA test. Yes it came back to be his. She said they are grieving their brother and want to hang onto our daughter as the only piece of him left. I can sympathize. But, my first priority is my family. Our daughter spoke pretty clearly how she felt. Why is it necessary to bring them into our daughters life now? They have young kids who know her dad and U.S. dead and may know he killed himself. That's not something I want our daughter to hear. I feel like my wife is pushing this. I want my wife to wake up and acknowledge who has been there the past three years raising our daughter. I want my wife to speak up and tell these people why our daughter may rememble her birth father, she has a Dad and that Dad is me. I want her to be protective of that, not these peoples feelings or whatever she is hanging onto.


You are going to have to establish boundaries and give yourself a date whether it be 2 weeks or 2 months of how long you are going to put up with this.
Get 2 books one is free on pdf here https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Another for around $15 is this Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


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## Letterman2810

How do u establish boundaries without being accused of being controlling or jealous of a deadman or insecure?


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## Pufferfish

From what's been written in these pages, I can't see how this can end well for you. Obviously this bothers the hell out of you or you wouldn't be writing here. Seems you are getting mainly politically correct advice (Love / support her more as she sh*ts on you) that won't help you squat. Things are not improving because it is what it is - the dead boyfriend is her man & you are a meal ticket for her & bringing up their child. Doesn't matter what you think or how much love you feel or profess. I believe that the term is "Beta Provider". It crops up now & then on this website. Have a look for it & understand it. Meanwhile, get out while you are not in too deep bro. But you probably won't because it's not in your nature.


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## lifeistooshort

Letterman2810 said:


> How do u establish boundaries without being accused of being controlling or jealous of a deadman or insecure?


You don't set boundaries with that goal in mind because it's used as a weapon to dodge the issue, shut down discussion, and force you to back down. 

You really should think about whether you want to exist as a provider who lives in the shadow of a sainted dirtbag who can now do no wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EVG39

Letterman2810 said:


> How do u establish boundaries without being accused of being controlling or jealous of a deadman or insecure?


Because you now longer give a s%$t about being called jealous and controlling because you have every flipping right to be jealous and controlling. That is classic cheater's behavior shifting the focus from her bad behavior to your very much appropriate reaction. Don't let her do that to you.


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## ET1SSJonota

Put another way, being accused of being controlling/jealous/insecure should be expected, and taken for exactly what it is: a ploy to make you back off your boundaries. Why do you care if she "accuses" you of those things? What if you are? Does that make the situation any different? Are your feelings and viewpoints important in any part of the marriage, or just ignored on this issue? 

You might respond with asking why she feels the need to be a deadbeat Dad's widow all of a sudden, while simultaneously alienating the GOOD man in her life. If you're not being acknowledged/respected for all that you do - why are you still there? The "fog"-like situation she finds herself in may take drastic measures from you to shake her out of it. It's clear from the picture you paint so far (if it is accurate) that she takes you entirely for granted. Under what circumstances would she accept being called a "baby" when she brings up a complaint? Consider that for just a moment. It should make your blood boil. If it doesn't - there's probably not much anyone here can do for you, and you should seek individual counseling.


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## MarriedToTheOne

2ntnuf said:


> The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. She always had feelings for him. She never truly moved on. His death and the manner in which he died caused her to feel guilty and brought those feelings and distortions into the light of day. He had some problems that weren't his fault and likely led to his decision to refuse to fight for his rights as a father. He may have known and just could not commit to the responsibilities that go along with being a father. He likely couldn't handle the pressure, and offered what he could. She needs to talk to a professional to work through all of her mixed feelings. She needs support.


"He had some problems that weren't his fault"???

Did you know this guy?

Otherwise, I never got a hint of that in the language of the Poster.

Sounds to me like he was a voluntary selfish irresponsible and immature bum. I know of quite a few like that. Mainly men (I am a male) but also a few women.

Yes, seeing a therapist would be beneficial for her... and him.

Otherwise he should continue in a very positive role so that as her fog lifts and she also remembers the (more frequent) bad times and that Mr. Immature is gone anyway, she'll see her true knight in shining armor has been there in full support mode... especially if her daughter continues seeing him as her true Dad.


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## MarriedToTheOne

Blondilocks said:


> "Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two."
> 
> Please rectify this situation.
> 
> As difficult as it may be, biting your tongue is the best course for now. She's probably in shock & doesn't want to be seen as talking ill of the dead.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't tolerate being treated like the bad guy, though. Boundaries and all.



Not sure if I grasped his Posting correctly or not. I see where he indicates that she is CURRENTLY looking at her ex different from reality (shocking death, suicide yet, and all), and I see (rightfully so) where the Poster feels hurt by that CURRENT attitude, I don't see where she had been treating him (the Poster) like a "bad guy". 

I think that with time those post-death good memories (and probably enhanced at that) will fade and reality (and ALL the memories - including the more numerous bad ones) will return.

And that if the Poster continues being the Good Guy, that she'll see the example of those real memories contrasted with the good guy that she has - and that her daughter is very strongly attached to.


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## MarriedToTheOne

2ntnuf said:


> You got that idea from the police thread, didn't you? It's a shame that you can't see it's different points of view rather than lies and distortions. Many are influenced by others, not just social media. Social media is less reliable because it usually only involves opinions with little facts to back them. Never believe opinions alone are the only reality. There are many and the best are backed by facts and reality.
> 
> I think he does need to consider this when he thinks of her feelings. Though, like another member posted, don't let her cross boundaries. There is a limit to what can be accepted without doing harm to a relationship, and, it's really her problem and she needs counseling with some support from you.




Huh?

Did I miss something?

This was in reference to.....


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## MarriedToTheOne

Yeswecan said:


> The deceased is being martyred. Soon Sainthood will be bestowed.
> 
> You are staying in this relationship because...?




Hmmmm.....

Maybe because he feels deep down that this is a temporary aberration and that she does love him - and that he dearly loves her???


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## Yeswecan

Personally I think your W is enjoying the attention and drama this has wrought. I have seen many who pile on the grieving and whoa is me for the deceased they barely knew.


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## Yeswecan

MarriedToTheOne said:


> Hmmmm.....
> 
> Maybe because he feels deep down that this is a temporary aberration and that she does love him - and that he dearly loves her???


It appears it is not a temporary aberration. The sainthood has been bestowed.


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## MarriedToTheOne

GusPolinski said:


> How clearly have you communicated this to her?
> 
> My wife is currently dealing w/ a similar issue, though sort of "in reverse", if you will. Her father passed away recently. The guy could be -- and, more often that not, to be honest, was -- a real bastard, and she's having a hard time dealing w/ the fact that much of her family (mostly her aunts, along w/ some of her half-siblings and cousins, HIS friends, and -- to a lesser degree -- her mother) is all too ready to overlook all of that.
> 
> As she's the oldest of his seven children, she's had a front-row seat to ALL of it for much of her life, and she's really struggling w/ the dichotomy.



Your situation with your deceased father-in-law sounds exactly like mine! Fortunately (in my case) the mother had passed a few years previously (and knew his behavioral problems) and most of the children (my wife and her siblings) REMEMBERED the bad stuff as well as the (much less frequent) good.


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## MarriedToTheOne

bandit.45 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I say pull way back. There is supporting the one you love, and then there is letting yourself get trampled on. She's not going to sway from the direction she is going. Don't make anymore long term plans with her. Start living for yourself.
> 
> I don't trust this woman. The more you describe her the more immature, selfish and narcissistic she comes across. She seems to like drama, she wants to be the center of attention, she is going to make her ex's family sit up and take notice of her come hell or high water. It seems like it is all more about her than her ex. I think the reason your family is getting bent out of shape is because they see things for what they really are. You are being exploited and they are trying to show you that.
> 
> You need to stop now and stay out of her business with this. You are becoming obsessed with it and it makes you look weak. Read Glover's No More Mr. nice Guy and apply its principles. Detach. I see some codependent traits in you and it might benefit you to get some counseling for it.




Not only disagree, but strongly disagree.

Glover's book is a narcissistic POS.... IMO.

The family is expressing their own opinions, not using psychological ploys to "show him he's being exploited".


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## ConanHub

Have D papers drawn up and put them in front of her.

Tell her you don't believe she loves you by her actions.

Tell her you understand the mistake she made by latching onto you when she was in need.

Be cool and emotionless as you inform her she can go get herself another loser as soon as she signs.

Make her earn you back or say by.

You are a beta provider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

ConanHub said:


> Have D papers drawn up and put them in front of her.
> 
> Tell her you don't believe she loves you by her actions.
> 
> Tell her you understand the mistake she made by latching onto you when she was in need.
> 
> Be cool and emotionless as you inform her she can go get herself another loser as soon as she signs.
> 
> Make her earn you back or say by.
> 
> You are a beta provider.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Show her you value yourself too much to be treated like an after thought.
The longer you put this off it won't get better.


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## Yeswecan

ConanHub said:


> Have D papers drawn up and put them in front of her.
> 
> Tell her you don't believe she loves you by her actions.
> 
> Tell her you understand the mistake she made by latching onto you when she was in need.
> 
> Be cool and emotionless as you inform her she can go get herself another loser as soon as she signs.
> 
> Make her earn you back or say by.
> 
> You are a beta provider.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed.


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## Marduk

You can't compete with a dead guy.

So stop trying.

Your wife knows how you feel and what it's doing to you. Yet... she doesn't care. Because she's overcome with grief, with "what if's"... and one of those is likely "what if I had stayed with him maybe my love for him and having a daughter would have kept him alive."

Let her go through it. Support her when she comes to you.

And yet... be distant. She knows the deal; grief can make you selfish. And she is being selfish.

Be there for your daughter. Spend time with her. It's confusing to her; focus on her. Be the rock. She has one dad that is alive and that she knows; and it's you.

For your wife, be a shoulder to cry on. But no more than that. If she's worth being your wife when she's dealt with the grief, she will realize that she's damaged her marriage and act accordingly.

If not...

She was never really yours to begin with.


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## MarriedToTheOne

EVG39 said:


> Letterman,
> I wrote my post some time ago and I am sorry that things still haven't gotten any better. I was kind of afraid of that. When I wrote earlier I referred to your wife as an "alpha Widow". Literally. Here is what I meant in detail.
> Rollo Tomassi, of Rational Male, laid out a concept of an "alpha widow". This is a woman who sleeps with alphas in her 20s and, as a result, refuses to "compromise" for a beta male later on (or does so, grudgingly). This is true even in the case (and is mostly the case) where the alpha male discards the woman unceremoniously after he has his way with her. She still holds him above all others whatever his poor behavior and pines over him, sometimes for decades.
> His death was a trigger for her for sure but I suspect this is what was beneath the surface all along. The death just brought it out in the open. Your exemplary behaviors which I and others on this board find good and decent just reminded her your "betaness" as compared to the dead alpha. Especially highlighted by the fact that you are willing to support and raise the alpha's child. You would think she would be grateful. And maybe she appeared to be on the outside but on a subconscious level I think she believed it to be an open acknowledgement by you of your inferiority. I know this is harsh. I know it sounds very primitive. And I hate saying but it just seems so true in your case that I think it important that you understand what you are dealing with so you can deal with her with eyes wide open.
> Sorry, but I don't know if its fixable or even if you should try and fix it. I would start thinking about all my options.



And to many people (myself included), this is simply a Manosphere conceptual myth! Does it ever happen? Sure (and BOTH ways... as many married men likely pine over that ****ty 19 year old sex queen from their youth as women do over, ahem, "alpha males")... but NOT a lot. Not a lot even in cases of relationships gone bad.

The Tool-Maker: Exposing the Myth Of The Alpha Male (Guest Post by Ferrum) | Just Four Guys

http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2013/03/manosphere-myths-****-carousel.html

Though I am sure individuals on this forum have experienced such a situation, it doesn't make it a norm in relationship problems.


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## tom67

Biology is involved also
Neuropsychopharmacology - Sex-related functional asymmetry in the limbic brain


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## Letterman2810

I had a long talk w her last night about moving forward. I asked her what's the goal here by bringing the family of my daughter's dead father into my daughter's life at this junction. I asked is it for our daughter or is is for the family to help with their grieving.


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## Letterman2810

She said its for the family.


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## bandit.45

Yeah right....

Naw, I think she is using you as an ATM. I don't see much love or respect there.


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## Marduk

Letterman2810 said:


> She said its for the family.


So she's using _your_ daughter to help a group of dysfunctional adults that are already hitting you up for money.

The appropriate response, if she is in fact _your_ daughter is "no."

If she overrides that, she's not your daughter. You're either her parent or your not.

Best to clarify that.


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## Icey181

MarriedToTheOne said:


> And to many people (myself included), this is simply a Manosphere conceptual myth! Does it ever happen? Sure (and BOTH ways... as many married men likely pine over that ****ty 19 year old sex queen from their youth as women do over, ahem, "alpha males")... but NOT a lot. Not a lot even in cases of relationships gone bad.
> 
> The Tool-Maker: Exposing the Myth Of The Alpha Male (Guest Post by Ferrum) | Just Four Guys
> 
> http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2013/03/manosphere-myths-****-carousel.html
> 
> Though I am sure individuals on this forum have experienced such a situation, it doesn't make it a norm in relationship problems.


Going to have to completely and utterly disagree with this; nothing like a solid chunk of Just World Fallacy for the afternoon:



> You don’t get laid unless you please a woman in some fashion. She has to approve of your appearance, smell, word skills, income bracket, etc. So the guy that gets laid a lot is, in real-world terms, the guy that serves a woman’s needs as the woman sees it. If you want to look at it from a strictly animalistic point of view, the guy that gets laid a lot isn’t so much an alpha male, but a stud animal. He was chosen for breeding because of his physical characteristics, no different than a horse or steer.


Alpha by any other name is still Alpha.

Also, Alpha Males are not Roided-Up Dude-Brahs who neg.

*They are confident, fit, and dominant individuals who lead by example.*

And there are enough example of straight up Alpha Widow BS (this whole thread is a case in point) to point out that, while it may not be common, it is common enough to be considered.

Personally, I would not abide this situation, whatsoever.

Your wife needs to grieve, that is fine.

But what she is doing is beyond grieving; it is selfish, it is damaging your marriage, and it is communicating a level of disdain for you which is unacceptable.

It is time for you to take charge of this situation and lay down some ground rules.

Because the moment she begins involving a group of dysfunctional adults (who serve no purpose but to maintain her emotional connection to the ex-BF) which effect both your marriage and your daughter's life that is *game over*.


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## Yeswecan

Letterman2810 said:


> She said its for the family.


It might be to help with grieving but don't you think the daughter should know and interact with the family?


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## tom67

Letterman it's been about two months right?
I feel for you but it's time to put your foot down.


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## jsmart

Letterman2810 said:


> How do u establish boundaries without being accused of being controlling or jealous of a deadman or insecure?


You can't control her but can control what you'll tolerate. You have to value yourself. I sense you're a nice guy with low self esteem. It's time for you to work on yourself. If she wants to come along for the ride good, if not, you're prepare yourself for the next woman. 

By the disrespectful way she treated your concerns tells me she's an alpha widow and sees you as a beta for your resources only. These types of woman will kick a beta to the curb in a second. Doesn't matter that her daughter will suffer. Why? Because there's always another thirsty beta waiting to play captain save a ho. 

She may be snapped out of the fog that she has for the bio dad but that will only happen if she see's a strong version of you pulling away.


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## Blondilocks

MarriedToTheOne said:


> Not sure if I grasped his Posting correctly or not. I see where he indicates that she is CURRENTLY looking at her ex different from reality (shocking death, suicide yet, and all), and I see (rightfully so) where the Poster feels hurt by that CURRENT attitude, I don't see where she had been treating him (the Poster) like a "bad guy".
> 
> I think that with time those post-death good memories (and probably enhanced at that) will fade and reality (and ALL the memories - including the more numerous bad ones) will return.
> 
> And that if the Poster continues being the Good Guy, that she'll see the example of those real memories contrasted with the good guy that she has - and that her daughter is very strongly attached to.


See post #1 - 4th sentence from bottom. It isn't my place, nor yours, to tell the OP that his wife isn't treating him like 'the bad guy'.

If this doesn't clear up my statement for you, take it up with the OP.


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## Lostinthought61

my question to her is this....which will bring the bigger grief, the lose of an individual that let you go and then died or the death a marriage if you continue to kill it. then what will she do when it is just her and her daughter.


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## bandit.45

Xenote said:


> my question to her is this....which will bring the bigger grief, the lose of an individual that let you go and then died or the death a marriage if you continue to kill it. then what will she do when it is just her and her daughter.


Women only carry torches for the men who broke up with them, left them or abused them. When they dump a guy they move on and forget him like he was yesterday's weather report. 

She doesn't care. Simple as that. The OP is a convenience to her for now. Once he is no longer convenient she will drop him like a hot rock.


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Women only carry torches for the men who broke up with them, left them or abused them. When they dump a guy they move on and forget him like he was yesterday's weather report.
> 
> She doesn't care. Simple as that. The OP is a convenience to her for now. Once he is no longer convenient she will drop him like a hot rock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iea803h1GQ0 
duh


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## Honda750

Hang in there man .......... Be courageous and be a leader in this time . See through the chaff and be rock solid for your marriage , it will turn out for the best !!!


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## jsmart

bandit.45 said:


> *Women only carry torches for the men who broke up with them, left them or abused them.* When they dump a guy they move on and forget him like he was yesterday's weather report.
> 
> She doesn't care. Simple as that. *The OP is a convenience to her for now. Once he is no longer convenient she will drop him like a hot rock.*


OPs wife was not only dumped, the father totally treated her like crap and here she is carrying a torch for the saint. Doesn't matter that OP has been treating her daughter as his own spending resources for some other man's kid instead of having his own. If the bio dad were alive and showed even the slightest interest in her, OP would be dropped so fast it'll make his head spin.


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