# When is enough a enough ... ?



## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I have been poking around in different threads trying to figure out what I should do. I feel lost and confused / sad / some days I think I should just drive into a pole!

When is enough a enough when you still love him? 

Background
H cheated 4 months before our wedding with a co-worker / carried on an EA with the co-worker for 2-3 years / another women was emailing nude photos of herself / adult sites for having flings / admitted a "crush" on another co-worker

I didn't find out about all of the above until 4 years later cause the lying and keeping things from he came ahead. I searched and found everything mentioned above. I confronted him and he had excuses and denied some of it. We decided to try and work through everything but he back verbally abusive.

To that I will admit was my fault I let it go on as long as it did. But I didn't realize what he was doing. Only kept asking myself what did I do wrong / why am I so sad / why does he make me sad / how can he say that and then tell me he loves me???!!!

Some hurtful things have been: you weren't raise right / you live in a fantasy world / have no common sense / etc...

We did counseling last year together and IC and I moved out for 2 months. After 6 months of counseling everything seemed better. We communicated better and things felt better. Being intimate was great and we were connecting.

But now 7 months later we are going back down the road of nothing really changed. He blames me for not forgiving and leaving the "past as the past" and moving forward. I don't talk about the past much anymore -- I try not to think about it I don't want the pain anymore. But when he does things I try and explain it makes me feel this way or that way. Or asking him like the other night why did it feel friday night like you didn't want me around? He says "I wasn't myself". Ok will I need a better answer cause I know that is his way of not wanting to deal with it. But it turns into me trying to explain and him getting angry. I relate what has happened in the past and what we talked about in counseling to how he is acting and then he goes down the road of "I have given you 4 years to forgiving and move forward but I see you are never going to!!" Yelling at me and ANGRY. Really?!?!?

I can't communicate and wont anymore if that is how he is going to act and apparently it seems clear and counseling did nothing and he is never going to change.

Overall I am SO OVERWHELMED: I have stayed and tried. I am sorry the past hurts but I wasn't the one who did those things and I don't think he has any clue how much hurt he has caused me and that I am still HERE TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK!! For what to be put down more and accused of not moving forward. I can't just forget the past ever happened. Considering he hasn't changed. This isn't the road I thought our marriage would have gone down. I wanted to have children (which he put off and put off with excuses) I honestly do resent him for that. But I guess that could be my silver lining. In our fight the other night he said something again that bothered me "I will yell at you when I want and if you upset me, I am not going to sugar coat what I have to say and how I say it". Exact words. If that is how he thinks then we are never going to work cause I don't think I deserve to be yelled at like a child.

Toxic / Angry & Controlling / Serial Cheater / Narcissistic
What else can we add to the list!

After the comment from above I really feel he is never going to change. But the worse part is getting off the roller coaster. He can say that but now has been SUPER nice. So exhausting.

Has anyone ever had all that happen? How did you leave if you did? I guess if I truly feel which I think I do that I would be better off on my own then I am probably right? Listen to my heart. It scares me that I am pretty sure we need to divorce.

Thanks for reading / listening


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Is he still cheating? Or did he give that up and you just can't forgive him.

You sound like my wife. She said the same things about me (but I wasn't cheating), that I never changed,that she can't forgive the past, and that I need to show regret for my past behavior. In my head, honestly, I didn't do much wrong. But in her head, I was the devil incarnate. 

Two different perspectives here, his and yours. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like both are in alignment.


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## amber04 (Jun 25, 2013)

i have found photos and other stuff on my husband computer and other stuff has pissed me off abt him he has lied on several things.. my husband says alot of them things and he has a temper too.. he does the same blames me i understand wht u are going throu..i gave up.. im still with him but i know i dont have to be treated tht way and if he ant gonna change tell him theres the door.. im exhausted frustrated and u know im losing my sexual desire as well as attraction to him.. hes getting way to comfortable and lazy.. today i told him he helps out or theres the door.. i can find a room mate anywhere thts wht our relationship is starting to feel like


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## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

Amber&Angel - its enough time to move on


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## Converser (Jun 29, 2013)

Short and sweet.

Move on, it's wasted energy, you won't find happiness there anymore. Cut the ties now and be happier in the long run.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

he has stopped cheating from what I know that this point. The only thing I can't check is his work email which I would not be surprise if there was contact with the others there.

Trusting him probably isn't ever going to happen at 100% which makes me ask the question - do you need 100%? 

I believe I need as close to 100% as I can get. And I just don't trust him and don't know if I ever will. It hurts deeply that he did most of the stuff at our happiest point in the relationship/marriage.

The only thing that he has done recently is ask about going to a BBQ and house warming party he was invited to but the women he had a "crush on" would be there. I told him I didn't want to go - that it wouldn't help me to move forward. He was like a 2 year throwing a fit and then giving me attitude for the day or weekend.
Plus on top of that I knew there would be people there that are friends too with the one he cheated with. 

I don't know - I understand it isn't fair to keep him from his friends but he needs to understand that I don't want to be around them. I wouldn't trust him either if he went alone to either party. Cause that crowd is known for getting drunk and things happening. Which has been his excuse for most of his actions - "I was drunk". My answer - I don't give a s***. You are responsible for your actions. You made a choice - you knew what you were doing.

One last thing: He was married before and he told me they separate cause they didn't "love" each other the same along with other issues. But I ended up contacting her (never told her my problems) and asked her to explain what their marriage was like.
Being controlling she explained. He is allowed to do whatever he wants and you are suppose to "deal" with it. Plus, she said there was stuff on the computer from chat rooms and adult sites. She said she wasn't computer savvy so she is not sure what else there was.

I am believing that I can't "let go" of the past cause I am protecting myself from getting hurt again. Since there are numerous times he has lied to me. Plus, history can and usually repeats itself.

I am reading "how can I forgive you". Hopefully that will give me some answers. I believe I am VERY forgiving and have been through our relationship. Is it wrong to believe if he was true to what he says and doing all the right things that I would forgive more and more over time?


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Each person has their own level of sadness they have to hit before they will make a big change in their life. It is no different than an alcoholic or a drug addict - you won't make the change until you are in enough pain.

My wife had an affair 2 years ago. I say 2 years ago but I know they traded FB messages 6 months ago and most likely more recently than that. I was asking a couple of my good friends for their advice. One of them asked me:

"Do you trust her?" I mumbled and stumbled and finally said out loud "No". That's when I knew it was time to make a change. I hit my bottom. 

Good luck. You will make it through this to a brighter tomorrow. You deserve better.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

sad_angel said:


> he has stopped cheating from what I know that this point. The only thing I can't check is his work email which I would not be surprise if there was contact with the others there.
> 
> Trusting him probably isn't ever going to happen at 100% which makes me ask the question - do you need 100%?
> 
> ...


Sad Angel ....honestly no it sounds from your post like you want out. It really doesn't sound like you want to stay with him. Some people are willing to forgive and bend their expectations of what they thought their marriage was going to be and some really are not. I don't think you really want to...and that is ok you don't have to if it is not what you want to do. The thing is when a spouse cheats the other spouse has to decide to forgive or not.....they also if they decide to forgive and reconcile have to accept that their definition of marriage is now adjusted. They have to accept that their marriage was not been based completely on trust, honesty, respect and monogamy.....their spouse took that away. You can't rewrite history....you can only change your future. He wasn't honest in the past....that doesn't mean he can't be honest in the future...he has to earn that trust. Freely given the first time...earned the second and on your terms. Only you can decide if "R" is right for you....but you have to really have to want it .....going into it half hearted won't work...to much pain and hurt to overcome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks mineforever!

Reading "how can I forgive you" (about a third way into the book) and it talks about "cheap forgiveness" which is part of what I did. Obviously didn't know that was what I was doing at the time. There is a part that talked briefly about acceptance. With what you mentioned about not accepting that my definition of marriage has to adjust for us to move forward. 

=)


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Yes that is correct...his will have to change also. He will also have to adjust his perspective....he can't remoowrite history either. The past is the past. He has made a mistake and hurt you deeply.....it does not mean you can't one day forgive and love him. You mentioned earlier he gets frustrated when you bring up the past and says you need to get past it get over it. Here is how I put it in perspective for my husband.... (btw...10yrs past Dday). I asked him one day if he rememered the oil painting he bought for his mother for her birthday (she never hung), the diamond earings (she never wore), the new grill (she only used once and offered back to him 1 year later) and all the lavish gifts he has tried to give her over the years and how much it hurts himin the past. He said yeah....and why would I bring that up? I said, when she makes a comment every year about how extravagent your gifts are and how you always spend to much....do you get upset and remember the past the way she used hide your gifts so the others wouldn't see what you bought her and be upset that their gifts weren't as nice. He said yeah it still stings a little but I understand she felt guilty cause my siblings couldn't give her as nice a gifts....it hurt me but I love her and it is in the past. It started to sink in for him that as he was able to relate being hurt himself by people he loves dearly and yet forgive them and move on...doesn't mean you don't still feel some pain. Maybe you can think of some examples for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Overall I can't think of anything specific that I could use along those lines. To relate a similar hurt. I'll continue to try and think of something.

I would love for it to work between us. I have given him time and believed his words which he never lives up to. His actions have expressed a lack of caring / support / respect / compassion / interest / etc. 

Just like a lot of people out there I never thought this is how marriage would be and how it would have turned out. We have a beautiful house, furniture, etc, but those things don't fill the emptiness when you can't talk with someone. When you don't have those other connections. We use to talk about everything and anything all the time. Even a year or two after being married. Now we have been married almost 8 years and we can't talk about anything other then projects around the house. Or what the plan is for the weekend. Talking about kids or plans for the future nearly never happen. When they do he acts like a deer in headlights or gives me a 100 excuses on why something isn't a good idea. I want more from the marriage, more from our life together and I have struggle with using "I want", but it is my life too. 

Sorry for the slight rant. We had a fight just over a week ago and there were a few things he said that have really made me think he is never going to change. And I know in my heart I can't make him change and I can't keep riding the roller coaster he has me on.

What kind of guy goes to a doc appointment with his wife where they say she needs surgery and it will be roughly 3 months to recover completely that he doesn't ask any questions - doesn't bring the subject up or ask how I feel about the surgery. It has been 6 days since the appointment and he acts like it never happened and he never got the news.

Really has made me feel that he truly has no feelings or compassion towards me. Just going through the motions. But that is what I mean about I want more. Grant he went with me to the doctor but that isn't enough!!


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Does he possible think maybe your not wanting to talk about it...that you might be upset about it. Does he avoid conflict or anything to heavy (serious -illness -death) discussions normally?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I have pleaded with him that I want more communication and to be more open about things. If we can't talk about everything being together 8 yrs married and 13 yrs together then why stay together? I have explained to him many times that it leaves me wondering / assuming things. 

I just am really lost for what to think other then he just doesn't care. And what hurts more then the cheating is how he would talk to them, it is how he talked to me when we were first together. Being so caring and compassionate even when one of the OW had a headache. Comforting her through Facebook.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Well I will say this...and I hope I am wrong but whenever my hubby was waffling back and forth in adult chat sites was when he would start emotionally distancing himself from me...we were all of a sudden not getting along as well..he didn't seem az caring or connected with me. He seemed to always be picking at d verything I did and critising it. It wouldn't take long and I would put two and two together. I hope this isn't what is going on....but you have checked right he isn't doing anything he shouldn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I have checked his different email accounts and his facebook. I haven't seen or noticed anything odd. Other then seeming completely disconnected.

He seems to keep his phone "clean" of messages and voice mail. Which has been like that since I seen stuff on his phone. Other then his phone there is his work email which I don't have any access to. 

I have thought about getting a voice recorder and putting it in his vehicle. And or getting software to install on his phone that tracks what he is doing. Just to make sure. But then I think with all of the cheating and lies does it really matter? If I am going to do software on his phone and a voice recorder why don't I just end it??


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

It was enough before you married. Sorry. He is never going to change, why should he? You stayed through all this sh!t. He keeps showing you that he is a selfish, cheating ass, and you keep insisting that it isnt true. BELIEVE HIM, THIS IS WHO HE IS. Its not worth fighting any more. Give yourself permission to move on, this is no way to live, and you deserve better.


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