# Am I screwing up my chances of Reconciliation



## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

First I would like to say Thanks to who ever created this website and to everyone who visits and post on this site. This site has made my situation bearable over the last few weeks. 

Here is my story 

So in the beginning of December I get “We need to talk” from my wife. I say ok, what’s up. She says. “I’m not happy, I am thinking about moving out and getting a divorce.”

Now that may seem normal for some situations, but keep in mind my wife has never once told me there was a problem in our marriage. She has never complained to me about any big issues that needed addressed. For the most part we had a very good marriage. I am faithful husband we rarely argue, I have my freedom in the marriage and she had hers. 

Needless to say I was beyond shocked, my heart fell to the floor, and I felt like I was having a panic attack. So I asked why aren’t you happy and why do you feel divorce is the solution? I thought we were happy, you have never mentioned any problems before. 

Anyhow long story short, there were many things that had bothered her for a very long time. I worked a full time job and also ran a business which took an additional 30 hours a week. I did a great job of being a father and taking care of the kids but a lousy job of being a loving husband and being there for my wife emotionally and physically. She basically felt abandoned. The problem was she never once in 3 years said a word to me about it. If I told her I was going out of town she was always ok with it. Never complained etc.. She did tell me a few times; I don’t need all of those things so if you don’t want to work so hard don’t. But she never told me I would rather spend time with you than have you work on making extra income. I honestly thought I was father or husband of the year. Working two jobs, to provide an above normal life for our family hopefully doing well enough to retire in 5 more years and relax. Keep in mind I am only 45 and my wife 35. I have a 14 year old daughter from a previous relationship and a 5 year old with my wife. 

There were more problems she never mentioned as well. Problems with her step daughter, me not spending enough time with her, me leaving her out of large financial decisions, she felt like her opinion didn’t matter, and she felt like she had no control or say in our marriage. 

My wife and I both have always been the kind of people who just handle our problems and emotions. We don’t fight over things, if she is mad about something she will take a few minutes to bury that anger and then just live with it. Communication is probably our only issues but lack of it has caused many issues, which have festered in her mind for years. 

We have been together for 11 years and married for 6. I just found out last week that she was considering divorcing me over well over a year ago. But she never once spoke to me about the problems or asked me to make any changes or talk about things. She just lived with that pain, hurt and anger until it bacame too much and she felf divorce was the only way out. 

My marriage is the most important thing on the planet to me. Once she told me about these problems, the biggest one being my business. The next day, I quit the business and started working on fixing all the other issues she had mentioned. 

I had her create me a list of everything that was bothering her. I have made some drastic changes over the last two months. Now keep in mind these are changes I wanted and needed to make. Not changes she requested because she wanted to be married to a different kind of person. 

When I actually sat back and looked at my situation, I quickly realized I needed to chnage. In reality, if I can save my marriage this is the best thing that ever happened to me. It has made me a better person, father, and will make me a better husband. I am much happier now my relationship with my kids, my mother, grandmother, friends, co workers, etc are all much better now. 

She has recognized and appreciates these changes. She said if these were made a year ago I am sure everything would be just fine. 

Now she has a very large wall up and will not let me in. She has told me she knows I am a great father and a great person, we have the same values, she is happy with all the changes I have made. She said to me every part of me knows I should want to try and fix our marriage but I can’t. She even said I know I will probably regret it and I could be making the biggest F**King mistake of my life. But I just get over the hurt and anger I feel. She says she has disconnected from me and is not in love with me any more. 

And she doesn't believe she can fall in love with me again. 

She has almost moved out 3 different times now and I have convinced her to stay. One time she told me she was scared to move out and wanted to go out on a date with me to see if she would have any romantic feelings. We went out on a 6 hour date and had great conversation. I thought it went well. She said she didn't have any romantic feelings and took that as a sign that she would not be able to ever again. I told her it took you over a year to disconnect from me, how can you expect to get those feelings back on one date?

She has told me recently, “I know you are willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage but I am not. The only thing I am willing to do is see a counselor on a personal level and see if I can get over the hurt and anger I feel.” She had her first session a couple of days ago. 

So we are still living together, we do not sleep in the same bed, and she will have nothing to do with me physically, she is not even comfortable holding my hand, or giving my son a group hug when he asks us for one. She said she needs some space and some time to work through things, which I am giving her. We do still talk and text daily, we are friendly but do not do anything together besides maybe watch a little TV. 

I'is getting very hard for me. She is basically living a single life under my roof. We have mocked up split custody, IE: weekends and days as if we were living separately, on her days without her son she is gone off and out on the town, concerts, out dancing, running around with her friends, etc. 

Now she has never been on her own, she has always lived with someone me, a friend, her mom, etc. I think she is going through some kind of midlife crisis thinking she missed out on something, thinking the grass is greener being single. And it is as long as she is single and living under my roof. She has the best of both worlds. 

So finally to the question… 

Am I screwing up my chances of reconciliation by allowing her to live comfortably under my roof while she tries to work through things? I think she is experiencing a false sense of what it will be like to be single. She is living in her own home, paying no bills, not uprooting her son. I feel I am making it too easy on her. 

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Have you considered the fact that there could be someone else? I think you should do some digging.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree with Katy to look for someone else.

Does she work? Are you still paying for her single lifestyle? That's the first thing I would cut off. Make her pay for her phone, insurance, car, nights out, etc. If that means she has to go find a job, so be it. Welcome to the real world of a single adult.

She's told you she didn't need all the financial support you were busting your ass to give her, so scraping by without your wallet to lean on should be no big deal to her, right?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Is she seeing a therapist like she mentioned she could do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

HappyKaty said:


> Have you considered the fact that there could be someone else? I think you should do some digging.


There is another interest, who she is attracted to. So I know that is also playing in here. I have done a lot of digging and have friends who actually know this guy. So I have been able to get good and accurate information. 

She has never touched him nor has he touched her. She has told him she is married and they could never be together unless she was divorced. But they do continue to talk via text. She tells me their conversation is only friendly he tells her about his kids, they talk about gardening, ETC. 

I have told her she will never get her feelings back for me unless she breaks all contact with this guy. 

Now the guy preys on married women and she knows it, he also has domestic violence charges, his kids are a mess, and his life is all messed up. She has told me she knows she could never be with someone like him, but she is attracted to him. 

I think that's why she feels it doesn't matter that she is still talking to him. But I know it does matter. 

I know they have not dated or even been together outside of her work. But he is a client of hers and does come into her office from time to time. 

I have told her two weeks ago she either needs to quit talking to him or put me out of my misery and move out. This is when she agreed to see the counselor to figure out if she could work through the anger and hurt she is feeling. 

I do not know if she has quit talking to him, we have not talked about things since.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> Is she seeing a therapist like she mentioned she could do?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes her first session was a couple of days ago.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Does the OM have a wife?


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

The OM is divorced, his children are all over 18.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Your situation is similar to mine.....the Walk Away Wife, living separate lives under the same roof, an EA (and now possibly more in my case).

I think you are doing very well - better than me. You've got to have the discipline to walk away, to accept that it's all over and move on with your life, and have the strength not to provide her with a "safe place" that she can come back to if it doesn't work out on her own or with another man (i.e. being her Plan B). Paradoxically turning your back on it all (and really doing it rather than just acting) is the best chance of a reconciliation. 

She has to make the journey back to you - if she wants to. In order to do that she has to get over her anger and hurt so that she can begin to look at you objectively again. Right now she can't see any of your good points, only your bad. She can't imagine loving you again - but that does not mean that it is not possible. And when she puts a future with you alongside a future either on her own or with someone else, the alternative future looks much better to her. But that will not necessarily always be the case. It just takes time and it requires her to be in a position where she has some prospect/fear of losing you. If she thinks that you will always be there than that will always devalue you in her opinion because you are inviting her to take you for granted. 


It's so easy to type all of this and so hard to do.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Your story sounds a lot like mine. Together 13 years, married 8 then one night I get the I'm not happy speech. Says she was unhappy for sometime, but never spoke up. She then gives me a list of what her issues were I address each one and have a gameplan on how to fix them. When she sees that I am taking action, she gives me the I love you, but I'm not in love with you. The one thing I can't change is her feelings. She put up the wall, and once she checked out, I knew it was over. I searched for proof of another man, but did not find any. I believe it was toxic friends, that pushed us apart. 

You need to have her stop all contact with the OM, or it will never get better. Also if her mind is made up, I'm not sure you can break down that wall. We did MC, and she admitted that the wall was there, but did not know how to let go of it. We tried the dating thing also, and all she would say is that there was no connection.

I reached a point where I was tired of fighting for something that she did not want. It is hard to give up, but in my mind it was harder to stay. I would think something was going great, and she would say it is just not there. She pushed me so far away, it was easier to keep going away than it was to turn and fight. Only you can know when that point is reached, and it is not an easy decision to make.

I would just start focusing on you and the kids. I picked up a new hobby, got a couple tattoos, and started hitting the gym. I am making this a learning experience, one that will better me for the future. It sucks, and there are still nights that I regret my decision. This past weekend, I sent a text to her to see if we are making the right call, and she told me to think of all of the bad times as well as the good. The funny thing is I never had any bad times to recall. It takes two to stay married, but only one can ruin it. Good luck, keep your head up it will get better.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Do her parents, family and friends know she's having an affair?


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Your situation is similar to mine.....the Walk Away Wife, living separate lives under the same roof, an EA (and now possibly more in my case).
> 
> I think you are doing very well - better than me. You've got to have the discipline to walk away, to accept that it's all over and move on with your life, and have the strength not to provide her with a "safe place" that she can come back to if it doesn't work out on her own or with another man (i.e. being her Plan B). Paradoxically turning your back on it all (and really doing it rather than just acting) is the best chance of a reconciliation.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this, Almost everything I have read tells me this is what I should be doing. Letting her go, fear of loss, etc.. 

It's almost impossible for me to do that.. Every time I get ready to try that I find some justification as to why I shouldn't. 

Here is my latest excuse. My wife is very stubborn, once she makes up her mind there is little chance of changing it. She also always has to be right. As you know from above she will bury emotion good or bad. 

So my concern is if she moves out, and figures out it's not what she wants and realizes she messed up. I am afraid she will just live with the decision to leave based on her stubbornness and not wanting to be wrong. Will she just deal with the pain and hurt of being wrong rather than try to R with me? 

This is the main reason I struggle to cut her loose. It's a catch 22.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

BeyondStressed said:


> Here is my latest excuse. My wife is very stubborn, once she makes up her mind there is little chance of changing it. She also always has to be right. As you know from above she will bury emotion good or bad.
> 
> So my concern is if she moves out, and figures out it's not what she wants and realizes she messed up. I am afraid she will just live with the decision to leave based on her stubbornness and not wanting to be wrong. Will she just deal with the pain and hurt of being wrong rather than try to R with me? .


Walking away from her means no longer taking responsibility for her mistakes or trying to fix them.

It also means that you fully accept that it is over. That means that you do not hang onto hopes that you might reconcile at some point. Of course you may choose to remain open to that possibility but you do not let your life revolve around that hope. That is not letting go. 

Again, so easy to see what you need to do and to write this stuff, so hard to have the same clarity and do what's required when it comes to my own.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

lost hunter said:


> Your story sounds a lot like mine. Together 13 years, married 8 then one night I get the I'm not happy speech. Says she was unhappy for sometime, but never spoke up. She then gives me a list of what her issues were I address each one and have a gameplan on how to fix them. When she sees that I am taking action, she gives me the I love you, but I'm not in love with you. The one thing I can't change is her feelings. She put up the wall, and once she checked out, I knew it was over. I searched for proof of another man, but did not find any. I believe it was toxic friends, that pushed us apart.
> 
> You need to have her stop all contact with the OM, or it will never get better. Also if her mind is made up, I'm not sure you can break down that wall. We did MC, and she admitted that the wall was there, but did not know how to let go of it. We tried the dating thing also, and all she would say is that there was no connection.
> 
> ...


I am sorry things turned out that way for you. 

Congrats on being strong. How long was it before you were able to come to terms with it and let her go? And how long have you been apart since you made the decision. 

BTW I got the same I love you but not in love with you BS after I made all the changes. 

I have come to terms with the fact that the only thing I can control is myself. So I have joined a gym, and am now in probably the best shape of my life. 

I am also working on me and the kids, which helps. I am way more focused on the kids than her. She seems to be pulling away from them also. It's like she just wants to be single. I honestly think this has nothing to do with the other guy besides she sees possibilities and not with him but with others. 

I don't have to tell anyone here how hard it is to deal with this on a daily basis. I am a very positive person and try to keep my head up and stay positive but every hour of every day is a new struggle.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

HappyKaty said:


> Do her parents, family and friends know she's having an affair?


I'm not sure I would consider it an affair, there has been noting but conversation between them.

Although The Bible states lust for another is Adultery. I'm not sure about attraction. I am attracted to a lot of other women but I don't communicate with them regularly. 

Anyhow, yes I do believe most people who know her well know about this guy. They know she is attracted to him she holds firm that he is not a problem. 

Her father just passed away 6 months ago, so she is also dealing with that loss. I have yet to see her cry or mourn him.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

I went through a separation, My story has a better ending. Nothing we tell you will make you feel better, I'm afraid. YOu are going to have to either give up now and separate or show her what she will be missing. Read the rules of the 180. Don't beg - she already has checked out and has probably been preparing at least mentally for a while. Don't follow her around. Don't ask about the relationship. Don't ask for another chance. Just "be cool". Even though your insides have been churned into butter, she needs to see a rock solid man that is strong and can move on. 
But most importantly, you are doing this for you. Remember she has already checked out. Your main concern now needs to be preparing your mind. In the meantime, what you are doing for YOURSELF may woo her back. It may not. It's still fresh in my mind what I went through for 4 months (many in here have gone much longer) but the light at the end of the tunnel is that you will come out of this ok, with or without her.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Walking away from her means no longer taking responsibility for her mistakes or trying to fix them.
> 
> It also means that you fully accept that it is over. That means that you do not hang onto hopes that you might reconcile at some point. Of course you may choose to remain open to that possibility but you do not let your life revolve around that hope. That is not letting go.
> 
> Again, so easy to see what you need to do and to write this stuff, so hard to have the same clarity and do what's required when it comes to my own.


Voltaire, I am no where near ready for what you describe above. It's only been 2 months since she told me she wanted a D. 

If I ask her to move out it will be with hopes that she comes to a realization that she is messing up and wants me back. 

In my eyes this will be like playing a game, that's another reason I have such a hard time with it. I'm not into games it feels like deception to me. But it seems to be my only hope for salvaging my marriage.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

rsersen said:


> I agree with Katy to look for someone else.
> 
> Does she work? Are you still paying for her single lifestyle? That's the first thing I would cut off. Make her pay for her phone, insurance, car, nights out, etc. If that means she has to go find a job, so be it. Welcome to the real world of a single adult.
> 
> She's told you she didn't need all the financial support you were busting your ass to give her, so scraping by without your wallet to lean on should be no big deal to her, right?


While we've only heard one side of things, it is SO disappointing to hear a spouse checkout of their marriage because their husband/wife does not "complete" them. Or, that due to circumstances beyond one's control, life becomes more difficult and everyone has to pull together, make some changes/sacrifices and work together as a team. 

From what I've read here and personal stories of family friends, etc -- more often than not, it's the wife who simply says she wants out. The husband, despite his best efforts to improve things, gets passed over for a man the WW determines is more 'fit' for her. 

Disgusting and seemingly more apt to happen nowadays than in previous generations. So again....WHY would a man want to get married nowadays when the risk and financial damage is so great? 

Welcome to Marriage 2.0 and why men are opting out.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dreald said:


> While we've only heard one side of things, it is SO disappointing to hear a spouse checkout of their marriage because their husband/wife does not "complete" them. Or, that due to circumstances beyond one's control, life becomes more difficult and everyone has to pull together, make some changes/sacrifices and work together as a team.
> 
> From what I've read here and personal stories of family friends, etc -- more often than not, it's the wife who simply says she wants out. The husband, despite his best efforts to improve things, gets passed over for a man the WW determines is more 'fit' for her.
> 
> ...


dreald,

Have you ever heard of the term hypergamy?


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Mark72 said:


> I went through a separation, My story has a better ending. Nothing we tell you will make you feel better, I'm afraid. YOu are going to have to either give up now and separate or show her what she will be missing. Read the rules of the 180. Don't beg - she already has checked out and has probably been preparing at least mentally for a while. Don't follow her around. Don't ask about the relationship. Don't ask for another chance. Just "be cool". Even though your insides have been churned into butter, she needs to see a rock solid man that is strong and can move on.
> But most importantly, you are doing this for you. Remember she has already checked out. Your main concern now needs to be preparing your mind. In the meantime, what you are doing for YOURSELF may woo her back. It may not. It's still fresh in my mind what I went through for 4 months (many in here have gone much longer) but the light at the end of the tunnel is that you will come out of this ok, with or without her.


Thanks Mark, this is solid advise... I have read many how to get your wife back books, ebook, plans, ETC. And every one of them gives this same advise. 

In my mind I know this is what I should be doing and I am doing it to some extent. I have been working feverishly on myself. Bought new clothes, working out, haircut, shaved off my goatee I've had for 20 years. Reading a lot of books on personal growth..

Not asking her daily about things, not letting her know things she does bother me.

However, she is still living in my house, but we are living separate lives in the house. She goes out every other weekend and I go out the opposite. Even if I have no where to go I leave the house so she thinks I am out. We do talk when we are both home, we eat breakfast together with the kids every morning. In the evening during the week we see each other maybe 30 mins a night max. 

I feel this is making it too easy on her. I am still footing the bill. I pay all the household bills. She buy groceries and that's it. If she was living on her own she would be way more stressed out. I pick up the kids, feed them, bathe them, put them to bed, because I get home first. She works til 8pm kids are in bed by 730. She drops the kids off in the morning. 

She does still know I want to fix the marriage. It's the reason I suggested she didn't move out. Honestly I was so scared if she moved out I would never get her back... Now I'm thinking I should of packed her bags, to instill some fear of loss. 

The one time she almost moved out was the closest she ever was to wanting to R. She was scared sh**less and wanted to go out on a date. 

You would think that would clue me in to what is going to help her find her way back to me. But like you said that's easier said than done.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Dreald said:


> While we've only heard one side of things, it is SO disappointing to hear a spouse checkout of their marriage because their husband/wife does not "complete" them. Or, that due to circumstances beyond one's control, life becomes more difficult and everyone has to pull together, make some changes/sacrifices and work together as a team.
> 
> From what I've read here and personal stories of family friends, etc -- more often than not, it's the wife who simply says she wants out. The husband, despite his best efforts to improve things, gets passed over for a man the WW determines is more 'fit' for her.
> 
> ...


I was just talking about this with my father yesterday. Talked about how in 15-20 years (maybe sooner), I doubt many people will get married at all - especially men.

I think it's part of the disposable attitude that my generation, and society as a whole, seems to have nowadays. Get a great phone, ditch it a year later for a better model. Same with computers, tvs, etc. Nothing is permanent or lasting. Couple that with the image portrayed by Hollywood, and the romantic comedies that are released every month, where the right people just come together, everything "clicks", and happy ever after. Hell, a lot of these films/shows even glamorize infidelity.

Looking at that, it's easy to see how we get here. If a spouse is unhappy, they look at the situation and say "why put in the work to fix this? It probably just isn't meant to be, and I have to go find Mr/Mrs Right." And they're out.

That's not to say that the walk-away doesn't try. A lot of times they will bring up their issues, try to get their spouse to see the light....but eventually they all reach the same conclusion. It's really sad.

As bad as I feel right now, I know I'm lucky to be going through this now - I'm young, no children, no house to worry about, not much property or money to split up. If it does eventually come to divorce a few months from now, I'll walk away without much of a financial hit. Then I read all the other stories here, and I wonder if I'd ever be able to put myself in that kind of risky situation again. Maybe it's just my hurt and anger talking, but I honestly don't know if I would want to. Marriage does not seem to be nearly as attractive now as it did when I first walked into it.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

rsersen said:


> I agree with Katy to look for someone else.
> 
> Does she work? Are you still paying for her single lifestyle? That's the first thing I would cut off. Make her pay for her phone, insurance, car, nights out, etc. If that means she has to go find a job, so be it. Welcome to the real world of a single adult.
> 
> She's told you she didn't need all the financial support you were busting your ass to give her, so scraping by without your wallet to lean on should be no big deal to her, right?


Yes she does work, she makes upper 20's a year. It's enough to live on her own in our city but not comfortably. 

I do still foot the bill at home she only buys groceries and clothes for the kids. We had this talk a couple of weeks ago. I told her if we were not living as husband and wife and working towards fixing things she would have to move out or start paying half the bills. 

Since it's the first of the month I am planning on having that talk with her in the next couple of days.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

rsersen said:


> I was just talking about this with my father yesterday. Talked about how in 15-20 years (maybe sooner), I doubt many people will get married at all - especially men.
> 
> I think it's part of the disposable attitude that my generation, and society as a whole, seems to have nowadays. Get a great phone, ditch it a year later for a better model. Same with computers, tvs, etc. Nothing is permanent or lasting. Couple that with the image portrayed by Hollywood, and the romantic comedies that are released every month, where the right people just come together, everything "clicks", and happy ever after. Hell, a lot of these films/shows even glamorize infidelity.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%. 

My wife told me I didn't get married just to get divorced. But yet she's unwilling to put forth any effort to even attempt to fix this. 

I blame it on society, everyone is doing it. If it doesn't work, no problem get a divorce. It's become the norm. We have become a society of quitters it's a shame. The only thing people can't or won't quit is bad habits like smoking, why is that? 

I'm not the kind of person who wants to be single so I don't know what I will do if we can't fix this.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

BeyondStressed said:


> Thanks Mark, this is solid advise... I have read many how to get your wife back books, ebook, plans, ETC. And every one of them gives this same advise.
> 
> In my mind I know this is what I should be doing and I am doing it to some extent. I have been working feverishly on myself. Bought new clothes, working out, haircut, shaved off my goatee I've had for 20 years. Reading a lot of books on personal growth..
> 
> ...


My own $0.02... She has already checked out in her mind. Telling her to leave is not going to cement anything. I think you are enabling her to live as a single person but have the security of a home, financial support, protection, etc.

It was tough for me to do it, so I know it is tough for you to do it. Make sure you are taking care of you and your kids. If she wants out she is not your responsibility. Once I realized that, things fell into place. It still wasn't easy but I was preparing for the worst. If you guys aren't going to reconcile, then you have paved the way for you being in a better state of mind in the meantime.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

BeyondStressed said:


> Voltaire, I am no where near ready for what you describe above. It's only been 2 months since she told me she wanted a D.
> 
> If I ask her to move out it will be with hopes that she comes to a realization that she is messing up and wants me back.
> 
> In my eyes this will be like playing a game, that's another reason I have such a hard time with it. I'm not into games it feels like deception to me. But it seems to be my only hope for salvaging my marriage.


I hear what you are saying and it is exactly the same for me. I can talk the talk but I am finding it very hard to walk the walk. It has been less than 2 months for me.

It looks like, in a sense, still having her in the house is a way to cling to her. She probably senses that. 

As for game playing - well, in a sense all relationships are games. They are just fun, happy games when things go well. Seduction is a game. Getting close to someone at the start of a relationship is a game. This particular game is more deadly serious because the stakes are high but it is a game nonetheless. And it's a game with one move and one move only. You walk away. You genuinely walk away. You don't run in anger or fear, you calmly and quietly pack up your things and walk away. Then one of two things will happen. Either you will walk away alone or she will follow you. You don't know which will happen and there is no way that you can control it.

The alternative is to stay and beg. If you do that then she will run away as fast as she can and you will be left crying on the floor, with little dignity or self respect. At least if you walk away you do so on your own terms and you are in a far better place if you do end up on your own. 

AS I say, I am finding this just as difficult as you to implement but I have developed a few rules that seem to help. I try never to initiate a conversation - although I am always first with a cheery "good morning". If we are in a room together or having a brief conversation I try to be the first to leave. Not running off in a huff as soon as she appears (that is weak, avoidance behaviour) but I do whatever I have to do in a unhurried way and then move purposefully onto the next thing. I try to settle in a particular place in the house and let her come to me - for one thing it ensures that I do not follow her around (or appear to do so). I do not find excuses to be with her or talk to her. When I am with the kids or even just watching TV I laugh as much as I can. When we are with the kids together I am just easygoing. I don't compete with her for their attention. If she is needy with them and a bit too keen to join in whatever they are doing then everyone knows it and they move away from her. My kids are older but even young kids can sense a needy parent. I have a list on my wall of things to do for me - new things to do, old hobbies and interests to pick up again. I'm sure she will see it sooner or later (if she hasn't already done so) and it gives me a focus of things to do for myself when I am at a loose end. So it both sends her a message that I am moving on (particularly when she sees me doing some of the things on that list) and it actually helps me to move on.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> And it's a game with one move and one move only. You walk away. You genuinely walk away. You don't run in anger or fear, you calmly and quietly pack up your things and walk away. Then one of two things will happen. Either you will walk away alone or she will follow you. You don't know which will happen and there is no way that you can control it.
> 
> The alternative is to stay and beg. If you do that then she will run away as fast as she can and you will be left crying on the floor, with little dignity or self respect. At least if you walk away you do so on your own terms and you are in a far better place if you do end up on your own.


This. 

I did the latter and it was painful. Save your dignity - you'll never regret it.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Mark72 said:


> My own $0.02... She has already checked out in her mind. Telling her to leave is not going to cement anything. I think you are enabling her to live as a single person but have the security of a home, financial support, protection, etc.
> 
> It was tough for me to do it, so I know it is tough for you to do it. Make sure you are taking care of you and your kids. If she wants out she is not your responsibility. Once I realized that, things fell into place. It still wasn't easy but I was preparing for the worst. If you guys aren't going to reconcile, then you have paved the way for you being in a better state of mind in the meantime.


You're right she has already checked out in her mind. But I know she is having mixed feelings which confuses me more. If she was till 100% checked out it would be much easier.

She told one of her good friends that is she worried that she is making the biggest F**cking mistake of her life. That she knows how good she has. That she knows most men are dogs. That she knows she has great family and home here with me. 

Knowing those things makes is so much harder to do what I know I need to do. 

You said you went through this for four months, we're you out of the house for four months? 

Your statement if she wants out she is not your responsibility is very helpful... It's going to be hard for me to come to terms with that but hearing those words helps me realize where I need to be.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> I hear what you are saying and it is exactly the same for me. I can talk the talk but I am finding it very hard to walk the walk. It has been less than 2 months for me.
> 
> It looks like, in a sense, still having her in the house is a way to cling to her. She probably senses that.
> 
> ...


Voltaire, this really helped me last night Thank You!

I was home with our son waiting for her to get home and had plans of asking her if she wanted to play Scrabble or some other board game. 

When she came in we talked for few minutes about our son and a plan for getting one of our cars to the shop on Monday to have repairs done. She took our son to put him bed. While she was putting him to bed I checked my phone and saw this post. It gave the strength to go to our room, put some gel in my hair, toss on a sweater, some cologne and head towards the door. 

As I was saying goodbye, she all of the sudden wanted to talk. So I politely talked to her for a couple of minutes, said goodbye again and headed out the door. 

BTW: The first question was where are you going.. My response was I'm not sure yet. 

In my situation she will be leaving my house. I Owned the house before we were married, in my state she has no claim to the house. 

Tell me what you think about this. I think this is my next move. 

Since I pay all the household bills, I am planning on telling her if she is going to continue to live here she will have to either pay rent or a portion of the bills. 

The question becomes how do I word it. 

I was thinking about giving her one last chance by saying "If we are not going to be living here as husband and wife and working towards R marriage I am going to need you to either pay rent or move out. 

The second option is to just tell her, she needs to pay rent or move out. 

thoughts?


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

staystrong said:


> This.
> 
> I did the latter and it was painful. Save your dignity - you'll never regret it.


I was reading your story yesterday, congrats on your recovery, knowing where you were and that you are doing good now is very helpful...


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

beyond the only mixed feelings she has is what if this new man doesnt work out i need beyond to fall back on. her feelings about you are not love she is only scared that her plan a may fall apart and you plan b and the security blanket (thats it financial blanket) may not be there. 

if you want to save this marriage you have to be willing to lose it. ask her to leave and tell her you will have the D papers served to her. you are not PLAN B


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

BeyondStressed said:


> Tell me what you think about this. I think this is my next move.
> 
> Since I pay all the household bills, I am planning on telling her if she is going to continue to live here she will have to either pay rent or a portion of the bills.
> 
> ...


I think that that is the right move. And I think you tell her pretty much as you have typed it here. Be calm but firm. Tell her that the old arrangement was suitable for a married couple living together as man and wife, but that since she has chosen to reject that arrangement then other things have to change as well. I would tell her that she can't expect to have the benefits of marriage without being willing to make the commitment that it involves, but that can come across as quite an inflammatory statement so you need to think about that one. 

I think that in general you should be telling her, calmly and quietly, rather than discussing or negotiating with her. She will be angry, so expect that. Bear in mind too that this impacts your child/children. You need to think that through from two angles. First, you genuinely have to think about child welfare and show that you have. Second, she will use the kid(s) to try to get back at you - either by taking them away or by claiming that you are harming them by witholding money from her (or asking her to pay her fair share). You just need to get your arguments togethter and be consistent and firm.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

BeyondStressed said:


> ...so I don't know what I will do if we can't fix this.


Emphasis on the "we". 

One can ponder all the "what-if's" imaginable as to what might work to repair a marriage (should I do this or that, and then agonizing over if it is the "right" course of action). At the end of the day, if the effort is only singular, and there is no "we" working toward a common goal (R), one is doomed to failure, unfortunately. 

It took me 3 months to come to terms with this reality. Honestly, it hasn't made it any easier to accept for me, but understanding "that's just the way it works" brings some clarity and direction to my actions going forward.

Good luck. 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

Conrad said:


> dreald,
> 
> Have you ever heard of the term hypergamy?


Absolutely Conrad -- and I believe it to be endemic in today's female culture. 

Of course we'll receive the NAWALT (Not ALL Women Are Like That) comment thread, but in fact, it's *extremely *rare where a woman doesn't 'marry-up' with regards to her own financial status. 

And yet the majority of men have the most to lose in marriage. When you stack the bias of judges and current laws that favor the female, most men are looking at the contractual aspect of marriage as being a HUGE potential loss given the likelihood of it not working out.

I was married for a VERY short time. But even though I lost over $60k and yet my exwife still thinks SHE was the victim, I consider it be a blessing that I woke up before she could extract/be entitled to more. Will I get married again? With the amount of savings I've accumulated, probably not. Not unless she has as much, if not more, than what I have, but given what you've pointed out, how likely is THAT to occur? 

Gotta love the double-standard women have set forth. But polls are showing that men are wising up. Sucks for women though -- we CAN get the milk for free. And don't have to be in perpetual servitude and slavery to the cow to get it.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

" The most to lose." Do you mean financially?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Beyond, any update? I'm a survivor of a WAW, 11 months post D. I'm miserable. I didn't have any of this knowledge about WAW syndrome until after our D was final, and like most, I did everything wrong. Begged, pined, you name it. My ex had an affair, got caught, I was willing to forgive her & she still walked. She's has another BF now & she got a great D settlement. She seems very happy & they could be married any day. I'm financially ruined and out of work. Craziest year in a half of my life. 

I'm interested in your strategy because believe it or not, I'm going to institute it post D. If nothing else, I should regain some dignity. My ex would love me to be around as an emotional tampon for when it suits her. I get nothing from this. She wants to be friendly & joke around with me while I am still in shock nearly a year later. NC, 180, etc. is not easy if you are codependent. I really loved my wife & my life, so I take it a day at a time. Looking fwd to hearing your update.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Dreald said:


> Absolutely Conrad -- and I believe it to be endemic in today's female culture.
> 
> Of course we'll receive the NAWALT (Not ALL Women Are Like That) comment thread, but in fact, it's *extremely *rare where a woman doesn't 'marry-up' with regards to her own financial status.
> 
> And yet the majority of men have the most to lose in marriage. When you stack the bias of judges and current laws that favor the female, most men are looking at the contractual aspect of marriage as being a HUGE potential loss given the likelihood of it not working out.


Why "believe" when you can look at the data? 

Hypergamy is currently not detectable in the US. It looks to have disappeared as wage (for those of the marrying age anyway) and education gaps closed as well. 

Looks like misogyny is alive and well though!


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> Beyond, any update? I'm a survivor of a WAW, 11 months post D. I'm miserable. I didn't have any of this knowledge about WAW syndrome until after our D was final, and like most, I did everything wrong. Begged, pined, you name it. My ex had an affair, got caught, I was willing to forgive her & she still walked. She's has another BF now & she got a great D settlement. She seems very happy & they could be married any day. I'm financially ruined and out of work. Craziest year in a half of my life.
> 
> I'm interested in your strategy because believe it or not, I'm going to institute it post D. If nothing else, I should regain some dignity. My ex would love me to be around as an emotional tampon for when it suits her. I get nothing from this. She wants to be friendly & joke around with me while I am still in shock nearly a year later. NC, 180, etc. is not easy if you are codependent. I really loved my wife & my life, so I take it a day at a time. Looking fwd to hearing your update.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EX here is the update.... 

Things are not going well nor are they improving... I did have a talk with her. She once again confirmed the OM was just a friend and to her it doesn't matter if he is attracted to her or not she has put him in the friend zone. I'm not a woman so I don't know what if any value there is to that.... 

I told her I wasn't ok with that and I wanted to cut all conversation with him. After some discussion she hesitantly agreed. 

She said she was hesitant because I was asking her to do something she didn't want to do not because she had more feelings for him. I don't know, I have never caught her lying to me so at this point I believe that statement. She did agree to stop talking to him.. 

FYI - They only talk via txt and only a few times a week. I have seen the phone records. 

I also talked to her about our living arrangements. I told her she was living the single life and I was footing the bill and it wasn't fair. I had every intention of asking her to move out but during our conversation she said things that led me to believe that she was feeling more towards a R then to continue down the D road. 
So I didn't have it in me to ask her to leave. 

I did make it clear that if she was stinging me along and only staying at home because it was easy, that she needed to man up and move out. Then I told her if she was going to continue to live under my roof she needed to cover some of the bills. To which she agreed. we ended up splitting the bills. 

That all happened 2 weeks ago... Now I am getting the feeling that she is once again being led or pulled away from me. Especially the last 3 or 4 days. She actually mentioned to me that she was going to ask her counselor to put her on some kind of medication. That's how stressed out she has been. 

She has an extremely busy work load right now and is working over 60 hours a week. She is an accountant and their office is way behind for the tax season. So I'm not sure if that is putting all the added stress on her or if it is me and our living arrangements. 

So this morning I called her out on that and we will be discussing this more over the weekend. No part of me wants to asks her to move out although I know I should. I also know I can't force her to try and work on our marriage. 

So here I sit still stressed beyond belief... I really need some companionship I'm lonely and want some affection. If I keep going down this path it could be years before I get any. I know that sounds selfish but hey well all have needs. 

I've tried very hard and made many changes, all of which have made me a better person but have not brought me any closer to a R.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

ExisaWAW said:


> Beyond, any update? I'm a survivor of a WAW, 11 months post D. I'm miserable. I didn't have any of this knowledge about WAW syndrome until after our D was final, and like most, I did everything wrong. Begged, pined, you name it. My ex had an affair, got caught, I was willing to forgive her & she still walked. She's has another BF now & she got a great D settlement. She seems very happy & they could be married any day. I'm financially ruined and out of work. Craziest year in a half of my life.
> 
> I'm interested in your strategy because believe it or not, I'm going to institute it post D. If nothing else, I should regain some dignity. My ex would love me to be around as an emotional tampon for when it suits her. I get nothing from this. She wants to be friendly & joke around with me while I am still in shock nearly a year later. NC, 180, etc. is not easy if you are codependent. I really loved my wife & my life, so I take it a day at a time. Looking fwd to hearing your update.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EX I have some info I can send you... PM me your email and I will forward it through.


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

BeyondStressed said:


> EX here is the update....
> 
> Things are not going well nor are they improving... I did have a talk with her. She once again confirmed the OM was just a friend and to her it doesn't matter if he is attracted to her or not she has put him in the friend zone. I'm not a woman so I don't know what if any value there is to that....
> 
> ...


When I stopped talking about the relationship and only talked to her when absolutely necessary about the kids, things started to change. I presented myself as a strong man that can handle the situation. No emotion toward R or D either way. 
If she has already checked out completely -meaning nothing will change her mind- then your efforts will only benefit you in getting your mind right for what's yet to come. You've established some boundaries and that's good. I wouldn't pounce on any breadcrumbs she throws at you. If she makes a move toward R, you can slowly meet her half way but don't get too eager or excited about it. Let her make the moves toward R. If she brings up R then be casual about it. 
It's tough but it's the best thing you can do right now.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks mark. That's great advice. I'm going to try and stay on that path. But you're right it is hard. I've tried to do this earlier. 

She went to her counselor who said she was clinically depressed. I think now she finally realizes. She could be making the wrong decision. They prescribed her a couple different anti depressants to try. 

This leaves me wondering if we do R and get back together is this going to be an ongoing problem I will have to deal with for the rest of my life? I can't handle going through this again. There is no way. 

Now I'm wondering if its even worth it. 

Question when people to on medication for chronic depression do they ever get off the meds? Are they ever normal? And the million dollar question was she ever not depressed. Has she been living like this for the last 11 years?


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Why are you living your life as if you are immortal? 

How much more of your limited time on this planet are you going to waste on someone who no longer values your commitment to them.? 

File D papers and move on. She's done and you are plan B. 

There is nothing here for you but pain and disrespect. 

It might interest you to know that there are 3 Billion women on this 

planet.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

I've followed your thread and I can't speak for what your wife truly feels. I do believe that you have been taking the steps to do what is right. 

I am 35 years old and have been on anti depressants since I was 21. Before that I believe I was suffering depression from the time I was 13. I can say that I am relatively normal now. I have tried to get off my meds but that has proven difficult. It is possible to live with depression and not know it. You don't really know it is a problem until it is no longer there and you see the amazing difference. I don't know if your wife is in the same situation but if she was "mentally unstable" the meds can only make things better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Jfv you make a valid point and I have ran that thought through my head many times. 

One reason is my commitment and marriage vows. I believe in for better or worse. I believe too many people just give up and that is why the divorce rate is so high. We live in a disposable society. I want to teach and show not only my children but everyone else that marriage can be saved and people can live happily ever after. Plus God wants me to. 

Two I love her and believe she is my soul mate. From day one I felt her mind was not in the right place and the decisions she is making are not based on the reality of some one acting with a normal train of thought. If I abandon her now when she needs me most I am the failure not her. 

Three I only plan on being married one time and I plan on being with that women until the day one of us dies. 

Four I don't want to be alone

Five I don't want to be single and try to find someone else. The world is filled with liars and cheaters with no morals or values. I will have to work through all those loser in attempt to find someone with my same values

Six I don't want my child to grow up in a split family

Seven did I say I love her and enjoy spending time with her. 

Eight we have built a home together. To give up after just 3 months seems to be too soon. 

I'm sure I could go on and on. I could also rebut the and list reason I should give up and move on. I'm just not there yet. Saving this is still more important to me.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Kermitty thank you for your response that makes me feel like I may not be wasting my time. I do believe she has had depression for a long time. The meds they prescribed her have scared the **** out of her. The warnings and side effects as well as the withdraws. She is only open to taking Zanex at this time. That one is an as needed drug. The other one they gave her was Effexor. 

Can I ask why you take?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm on Effexor and some people including myself have a horrible time trying to get off of it. She should avoid that one if possible. I don't have any side effects and no depression so it is worth it if she finds nothing else works. 

I take them now mainly because the withdrawal is too hard when I try to get off of them. Based on my history, even if I got through the withdrawals, the chances of my getting severely depressed again are high so I continue taking them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Who knows what her true feelings are toward the OM. But if she's that attached to him then at a minimum she's having an emotional affair. It doesn't have to be physical for it to count as an affair.

You may truly want to save your marriage but unless she truly wants to save it as well, you don't have a marriage that's going the distance.

So have a Plan B in the back of your mind. And act on it if you have to.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

BeyondStressed said:


> She has never touched him nor has he touched her. She has told him she is married and they could never be together unless she was divorced..


How do you know any of this is even remotely true?

All cheaters lie.

Most betrayed spouses believe the lies.

Because they want to.

To answer your initial question, yes you're making it to easy for her to carry on with her affair or whatever you want to call it, you're being a doormat and she'll lose any remaining attraction and respect she may have for you because you are allowing her to treat you like a second class citizen. Women want strong, independent guys, not weaklings.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Openminded said:


> So have a Plan B in the back of your mind. And act on it if you have to.



OP - you may be you W's "plan B".

Think about it.


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## BeyondStressed (Feb 28, 2013)

Well. I really need some love help and support tonight. I did what I never thought I would be capable of doing. I give my wife back my wedding ring and asked her for hers back. I have never been so miserable. I know it had to be done. I am 99% sure it's over for good and I'm sick about it. I want to run back to her and grovel at her feet. Please help me get through this.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Sorry no one has jumped in here. I know it's tough. Be strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

You deserve to be loved. You can not force someone to love you. If in time she realizes she loves you, great. Letting her go is the best way to let her figure it out. Stay busy and be around friends and family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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