# Question to betrayed spouses.



## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Did you feel guilty after finding out ?

How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?

What things did you feel change about you ?

If you left your spouse, did you reconcile afterwards ? If yes, why or more accurately how did he/she redeem her/himself ?

Did it project onto later relationships ? Did you become suspicious ?

Any other details about dealing after the affair is greatly welcomed.

I'm in this phase where I forgot everything about her and I'm focusing more of myself. I know there's nothing I can do to change what happened, but I'm feeling my self-esteem shrink by the second.
Whenever I saw an attractive girl, I automatically thought about my wife and started to feel guilt. I can't help but think that I wasn't good enough for her, she would've done the same.
I know it's dumb, but I really thought I "rocked" her world.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Spunoh said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> 
> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?
> 
> ...


My stbxw serial cheat for 6/7 yrs.(15yrs, 11 married) I'm 4 mnths down the line and anger is the biggest thing I cannot get rid of. She wants to be amicable and friends (for the kids) and "celebrate the great things in our marriage" and want's to move nicely on and hope the world forgets about what she actually did - shows no sign of real unconditional remorse.

My previous relationship was 6/7 years, she also was a serial cheat (I know I pick 'em!) 

My 'trust ' of woman is sadly at an all time low and I know I'll need to emotionally 'regroup' for a long time before I even open up to anybody in a committed way

Deep inside I feel a 'confidence ' if that's the right word that I'll get past it and move on to better things but while my detestation of my wife is as high as this is that looks far away 

I can definitely feel that this time I am changed within. I feel 'tampered' with. abused if you like.

That really does not feel good at all.

I think the fact that I have the kids 4 days nights a week makes a huge difference to me atm as the focus while they are with me is of course them, which does help


Sorry edit: I do not for one second feel "guilty" about finding out. Why would I?


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Headspin said:


> My stbxw serial cheat for 6/7 yrs.(15yrs, 11 married) I'm 4 mnths down the line and anger is the biggest thing I cannot get rid of. She wants to be amicable and friends (for the kids) and "celebrate the great things in our marriage" and want's to move nicely on and hope the world forgets about what she actually did - shows no sign of real unconditional remorse.
> 
> My previous relationship was 6/7 years, she also was a serial cheat (I know I pick 'em!)
> 
> ...


I'm not that great in english, I used the word guilt because I didn't find one more suitable. I mean, I feel like I failed as a man since finding out.

I really do hope you find someone that really deserve you. I know what you feel facing lack of genuine remorse. They do feel regret, but I can't even begin to understand how they could feel sorry for themselves.


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## TexasFlyer (Apr 30, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this..

Here is what I did, and my wife and I are still together..

1. Make a decision to stay or go. You can't really work on anything if you don't do this.

2. Exercise. Exercise. Exercise. Seems ridiculous, but this will help you more than you know. 

3. Find a really good sex therapist. If you don't like the first one, find a new one.. Get your own counselling sessions.

4. Get a full disclosure. Every gory detail, every kiss.. Absorb it, chew it, swallow it, endure the heartburn. This helps immensely even though it is painful to hear. Your therapist will help you with this process.

5. Please note, that her cheating really has NOTHING to do with you. This was a hard pill for me to swallow since there is a lot of blame going on.. But it is the truth. There is nothing logical about cheating, it is an escape from ones self, a hiding because the person cheating is not adult enough to handle the tough decisions nor has enough personal boundaries.

6. Did I mention exercise?

7. Don't compare yourself to the other person. It really has NOTHING to do with you vs. him.. It has everything to do with your wife not having the ability to act like an adult. 

I don't know how far out from d-day you are, but, it does get better. Time heals a lot, therapy heals it even faster, and believe it or not, a disclosure really helps.. 

Outside of exercising and therapy.. I asked my wife to throw out ANYTHING that was shared between them.. Even if it were clothes she wore on a date that she had for months.. GONE, furniture he sat on, GONE.. She made a pact with me to stay in therapy for herself, to work on overcoming her issues, and to accept full responsibility for cheating. Honestly, two to tango does not apply in this areana. There are NO secrets in our relationship now.. You should read 'No More Mr. Nice Guy'.. this book has helped many men recapture what they lost from a controlling, shalllow wife.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Spunoh said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?


I didn't feel like less of a man because I couldn't keep her. My ex had a serious case of princess syndrome. She came from a very, _very_ wealthy family. She had everything in life but constantly wanted more. We were in fact the exact opposite. I grew up with absolutely nothing and had to look after my 2 sisters and mum since I was 15. It wasn't much of a loss because I was constantly giving. It was a relief more than anything.



> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?


I completely cut contact with her and immersed myself in work. I just enjoyed life again.



> What things did you feel change about you ?


I broke the cycle of putting others before myself. My whole life I just gave and gave. Missed out on a lot of things because of my commitments to other people. I never had the chance to care about me or what I wanted. Breaking up definitely helped me change my perspective on life.



> If you left your spouse, did you reconcile afterwards ? If yes, why or more accurately how did he/she redeem her/himself ?


She desperately still wants to. It's just not in me any more. There's too much resentment there and I couldn't put her through that to be honest. 



> Did it project onto later relationships ? Did you become suspicious ?


Definitely not, I can't live like that. 



> Any other details about dealing after the affair is greatly welcomed.


Don't reconcile because it's the "right" thing to do. If you believe your actions seriously contributed to damaging your relationship, to an extent where your spouse sought outside comfort, then there may be grounds to reconcile. If not, life is too short to be a martyr.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

Did I feel guilty yes I blamed myself and sometimes still do. 
We are working on our marriage together, it's hard but I know and hope we will make it.
I don't hold anything back I ask everything.


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Yeah, i felt guilty, i dont know why, but i think its kind of a natural response. Maybe not so much guilty, more along the lines of wasnt i good enough? What did i do wrong...etc etc. 

But then again, he did tell me it was my fault he did it. That didnt help.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Headspin:
My previous relationship was 6/7 years, she also was a serial cheat (I know I pick 'em!)

I don't think those of us who have been betrayed one or more times do the "picking".
The cheaters, for some reason, pick us.
I'm two years out of my nightmare and am still as cautious as I can be trying to discern "their nuances".


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Spunoh said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> Nope. Not even a little. Which means I am probably weird LOL.
> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?
> HHonestly, I thought about all the things I had put off for myself over the years since his actions basically made me feel like I was going crazy, and I decided "hey eff him, I am doing for ME now". Kinda put things in a new light.
> ...


I think that mindset is common, but oh how I wish that we could all change it! I felt the same way for a bit, but my best friend looked at me and said "You have always been too good for him, he just happened to prove it". That stuck with me. Was I perfect? Oh god no. But I tried, and I was trying to make things better. He is the one who found someone else and cheated. What does that say about me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You will see some of the DS's on here try to tell me "Oh, did your H leave you for another woman?" And I giggle and say no, actually. He BEGGED to get me back. Why am I so confident? I got the opportunity to skype with the OW and her H while my H and I were on the other end. The things that they had to come clean about clearly showed the idiocy of their affair. Seeing her admit that she was looking for a better paycheck was HILARIOUS. Her jaw hitting the floor when my H's "fat, lazy, ugly arse wife" came onto the screen at 5'10" 130 lbs was even better. All those lies they told each other came out. Her saying she would have a threesome with him. Oh man, her husband almost pissed himself he was laughing so hard at that one.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Headspin said:


> I can definitely feel that this time I am changed within. I feel 'tampered' with. abused if you like.



You were abused. 

A growing number of psychiatrists consider cheating to be a passive aggressive form of emotional abuse. 

Of course it is. 

It's an immature way to deal with life stresses and most abusers are immature. They tend to blame others for all their problems and have unrealistic expectations of life.

And to answer the original question. 

Yes. It changes the BS. It's emotionally harmful in many ways.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Spunoh said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> 
> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?
> 
> ...


I do feel guilt for wanting the divorce, even though STBEH wants to reconcile. 

My situation in every way was similar to Complexity's situation. And my reasons for not wanting to reconcile, too.

Except my spouse was not from a very wealthy family, but he did have the little prince syndrome from being a very spoiled only child.

Also, he was never happy with anything and always wanted more. 

He was the unrealistic spender I was the saver


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks so much for the great feedback, it helps so much to not feel alone.



TexasFlyer said:


> Sorry you're going through this..
> 
> Here is what I did, and my wife and I are still together..
> 
> ...





Complexity said:


> I didn't feel like less of a man because I couldn't keep her. My ex had a serious case of princess syndrome. She came from a very, _very_ wealthy family. She had everything in life but constantly wanted more. We were in fact the exact opposite. I grew up with absolutely nothing and had to look after my 2 sisters and mum since I was 15. It wasn't much of a loss because I was constantly giving. It was a relief more than anything.
> 
> I like the term of princess syndrome, I think it would apply to her. Her parents had raised her in a my-kid-can-only-be-right environnement and it screwed up with her.
> Her mother has a really ugly attitude towards men, it got into my soon to be ex wife.
> ...





Twofaces said:


> Yeah, i felt guilty, i dont know why, but i think its kind of a natural response. Maybe not so much guilty, more along the lines of wasnt i good enough? What did i do wrong...etc etc.
> 
> But then again, he did tell me it was my fault he did it. That didnt help.
> I thought the same. Maybe I wasn't good enough, or maybe I wasn't valueing myself enough in her eyes. Those are questions that were inevitable.
> I can't believe he told that to you. What's scary is that he might as well be convinced about it.






lovemylife26 said:


> Did I feel guilty yes I blamed myself and sometimes still do.
> We are working on our marriage together, it's hard but I know and hope we will make it.
> I don't hold anything back I ask everything.
> 
> How do you deal with parts that you don't believe, or parts that adds to the pain ?





hookares said:


> I don't think those of us who have been betrayed one or more times do the "picking".
> The cheaters, for some reason, pick us.
> I'm two years out of my nightmare and am still as cautious as I can be trying to discern "their nuances".
> I wish you good luck on the road of recovery. The idea that it would happen to me again scares me to a break point. I'm afraid I would see a pattern in that.





DawnD said:


> I think that mindset is common, but oh how I wish that we could all change it! I felt the same way for a bit, but my best friend looked at me and said "You have always been too good for him, he just happened to prove it". That stuck with me. Was I perfect? Oh god no. But I tried, and I was trying to make things better. He is the one who found someone else and cheated. What does that say about me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You will see some of the DS's on here try to tell me "Oh, did your H leave you for another woman?" And I giggle and say no, actually. He BEGGED to get me back. Why am I so confident? I got the opportunity to skype with the OW and her H while my H and I were on the other end. The things that they had to come clean about clearly showed the idiocy of their affair. Seeing her admit that she was looking for a better paycheck was HILARIOUS. Her jaw hitting the floor when my H's "fat, lazy, ugly arse wife" came onto the screen at 5'10" 130 lbs was even better. All those lies they told each other came out. Her saying she would have a threesome with him. Oh man, her husband almost pissed himself he was laughing so hard at that one.
> 
> You said something about you deciding to let it go. I really look forward to that, I want be the one that heals myself, not her. I really don't want to give her that pleasure. She couldn't, anyway.
> I am really not anxious to hear what they said to each other but I'll have to think thouroughly about it, I don't want to wake up one day and wish I did.
> ...





oaksthorne said:


> All good advice. I was not able to go to a health club post discovery because it was a trigger. He was working out when he got involved with her, and she paid for a couples membership at a different club so they could more easily keep their A under cover. It is very important to get all the information up front. If he/she thinks they are protecting their spouse by keeping information back from them, they are fooling themselves. Nothing can cause more problems then finding out later that you have not been told something you have a right to know. You have to be able to rebuild your trust in the WS and the fragile trust you begin to develop after such a betrayal is easily swept away when you are always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
> 
> And it's really scary that people can really live with the guilt in case it was unknown to the concerned party. They could live with the guilt of killing someone if the authorities wouldn't find out.
> I really dread this kind of hypocrisy.
> ...






Sara8 said:


> You were abused.
> 
> A growing number of psychiatrists consider cheating to be a passive aggressive form of emotional abuse.
> 
> ...





Sara8 said:


> I do feel guilt for wanting the divorce, even though STBEH wants to reconcile.
> 
> My situation in every way was similar to Complexity's situation. And my reasons for not wanting to reconcile, too.
> 
> ...


I want to add that I understood for the time what an emotional rollercoaster is. I'm hopeful and then a split second later, I'm depressed. I'm angry and then devastated and then resolved and then depressed and it's just so exhausting mentally.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

hookares said:


> Headspin:
> The cheaters, for some reason, pick us.
> ".


I believe this to be very true in many cases, especially with the narcissistic type personalities. They are extremely good & proactive in manipulating people and are expert at picking easier prey. Good, moral, honourable people who don't live like that. When you don't act immorally, you just don't naturally look out for people who are intending to use you.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Vegemite said:


> I believe this to be very true in many cases, especially with the narcissistic type personalities. They are extremely good & proactive in manipulating people and are expert at picking easier prey. Good, moral, honourable people who don't live like that. When you don't act immorally, you just don't naturally look out for people who are intending to use you.


I haven't changed what "moral standards" I had before my split. However, I sure as hell tend to look out for the users.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

hookares said:


> . However, I sure as hell tend to look out for the users.


I've learnt more than I ever wanted to about personality disorders since Dday. It really shocked me when I took more notice of people I encountered. Many people, to varying degrees are just plain selfish and it's all about them.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Yes I feel guilty. I feel like I should not have neglected her. I should have told her she looks nice. I should have cuddled more in bed. I should have made an effort to have adult time, away from the kids. I should have been more adventurous in bed.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> Yes I feel guilty. I feel like I should not have neglected her. I should have told her she looks nice. I should have cuddled more in bed. I should have made an effort to have adult time, away from the kids. I should have been more adventurous in bed.


I understand the guilt, I really do.
But your guilt would be valid only in one case, if she's weak to the point of seeing this as a reason to go behind your back.
I think you should have made all those efforts, but it doesn't excuse her deceit. If she sought to keep her credibility, she would have talked about it to you.

Anyway, it's only you who can realize this. I really hope you do it sooner than later.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

*Please take my answer with a grain of salt. I am just over two months out.*

_Did you feel guilty after finding out ?_

*I have never felt guilty. I was working my butt off for our family, while he was engaging another woman.*

_How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?_

*So far we are still together and he is doing his best. There has been no contact with her or any other woman that I can find. Am I over it....not by a long shot.*

_What things did you feel change about you ?_

*I lost my innocent view of the world. I lost faith in woman. I lost faith my husband. I lost faith in myself. My self esteem is in the toliet right now. I find that trusting people is harder and harder to do.*

_I'm in this phase where I forgot everything about her and I'm focusing more of myself. I know there's nothing I can do to change what happened, but I'm feeling my self-esteem shrink by the second._

*What you are experiencing is perfectly normal.*

_Whenever I saw an attractive girl, I automatically thought about my wife and started to feel guilt. I can't help but think that I wasn't good enough for her, she would've done the same.
I know it's dumb, but I really thought I "rocked" her world. _

*Me too.*


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> *Please take my answer with a grain of salt. I am just over two months out.*
> 
> _Did you feel guilty after finding out ?_
> 
> ...


It's weird to think that I started this thread less than a week ago. I still sense the despair and depression in my questions but it seems so far.
I really do hope that you'll get better soon and I think what makes it harder is that you're still with your husband. I'm sure that you made the right decision but I think I would be devastated if I woke up each morning to see her.

My self-esteem is recovering, I'm feeling better talking to strangers but not so prepared to face people I know. Not yet.

This forum helped me a great deal.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Torrivien said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> 
> I felt shocked, angry, sad, disbelief. The thing with us though, my wife had recently delivered an ultimatum to commit to fix things or give up. I put myself through a wringer deciding, which had bothered me, it should've been a no brainer, but wasn't. We'd gotten to be like roommates who just kind of tolerate each other, sometimes just barely. I did choose to stay and work at it though, and had stared IC, and reading books. I started to pay closer attention, and soon after caught a google chat that revealed almost everything. I think because is just committed to the relationship, I never even considered leaving as an option. I completely ignored the utter contempt she expressed about me, ignored the obvious infatuation she'd developed for the OM, and developed a plan to save my marriage, then set to it. I took my emotions out of it, didn't take it personally, and as a result, was able to think more clearly about our relationship than ever had before. I saw my part in creating the conditions where an affair would seem like a good choice. Was able to treat my wife with compassion, and do the things I needed to do to show her I was serious, that I was in fact an amazing husband, contrary to her belief, and to not react as she went through withdrawal.
> 
> ...


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## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

Torrivien said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> 
> yes, i did. i've learned about different cheating scenarios on this forum. in some, cheating seems to have been a longstanding habit/flaw for one partner; in others, the WS cheats on a wonderful, attentive, loving partner. in still others, a marriage deteriorates painfully for years before one partner cheats.
> 
> ...


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I don't think I felt much guilt.. during the whole process.

The only guilt I felt was when I told him I wanted a divorce. I felt guilty about hurting his feelings ( I know....)

I felt guilty wondering why I couldn't get past everything.. "was it wrong of me that this was a deal breaker"?

What if he "has" told me the truth? And I'm just trying to say there's more to it than there is? What if he is truly remorseful and I'm not letting myself see it?

But then I look at the big picture and remember what "he" did to me and our marriage, then I don't feel so guilty...


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I felt guilty wondering why I couldn't get past everything.. "was it wrong of me that this was a deal breaker"?


That's absolutely the guilt I was talking about. Have I given up too soon ?
I had "the chance?" to have an over the line self-centered wife. I think it made me it easier for me to leave her but I absolutely understand what you say. I still have waves of anger and depression due to everyday triggers or find some of her attitudes in other people's stories but when it happens I just hang on, fight it and read the stories of people that had more painful experiences than I.
I don't know if it's offensive, but it somehow help me to "man up".



SadandAngry said:


> I know my fidelity is important to me, it is not a gift to my spouse.


I'm in love with this sentence. Fidelity must be one of the solid anchors that tells you who you are, not a relative behavior.



margrace said:


> he is NOT, however, the paragon of wonderful, insightful fWS-ness that others on this forum have experienced. that was hard for me at first: why isn't he saying all the right things to make me feel better like other peoples' partners are? we've had to work hard at getting to this relatively good place.


That's the main thing that scared me off reconciliation.
What made him begin to understand and show more insight by the time ? Was it the conseling ? Was it seeing you suffer for what he did ?


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## Petyot (Aug 31, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> Yes I feel guilty. I feel like I should not have neglected her. I should have told her she looks nice. I should have cuddled more in bed. I should have made an effort to have adult time, away from the kids. I should have been more adventurous in bed.


I have exactly the same feelings (except the last one maybe)


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Torrivien said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?
> 
> Hell no - that was his mess - his disaster - his hell that he created and his family was thrown into. I had nothing to feel guilty about.
> 
> ...


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?


At first I felt mostly disbelief, anger, sadness, pain and every other emotion imaginable. The discovery of her affair left me feeling undesirable in every way. I did feel guilty for the snooping and detective work that lead to the discovery...but I'm glad I did. Her justifications for her cheating and blame-shifting had me thinking it was my fault somehow. I always thought we had a good marriage and she never told me otherwise. Had I done or not been doing things to make her happy? Then I woke up and realized her cheating was all about her...complete selfishness and her internal flaws. 



> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?


I don't know if I will ever get over it. In time, it starts to fade...no longer on the surface. By this I mean; you don't think about it every minute of the day anymore...it know longer consumes you.

My STBXWW was unremorseful and not willing to do much of anything to help save what was left...no heavy lifting from her just continued lying and deception. I filed for D and am currently going through the process. I would have been willing to R and did try for almost a year but the fact that she didn't think rebuilding the trust between us was important enough to give up things like passwards, GNO's, secrets, and dishonesty...was a deal breaker.

I am getting over her by visualizing my life without her...my future. I am starting to see that things will be good and I am looking forward to it. I am putting myself first again which is something I haven't done in 15 years. I am doing new things, creating new experiences, and meeting new people...especially new women. I think I am going to enjoy being a single man again especially after being married to a woman that did nothing to make me feel desirable or wanted...no regard for my needs. She was a classic taker. The new women that I have been meeting have made it clear that I am desirable.



> What things did you feel change about you ?


I am still me...just unchained. I feel a new sense of freedom and liberation. I am more out going and personable. I have been marriage and family centric for so long I lost some of my individuality...my edge. I am rediscovering myself and the things that I enjoy again. I am discovering new activities and interests that help to make me complete. This will also make me more attractive to others.



> If you left your spouse, did you reconcile afterwards ? If yes, why or more accurately how did he/she redeem her/himself ?


I filed for Divorce. I tried to R for about a year but I realized it was false form her. She did not redeem herself so I am leaving her behind.



> Did it project onto later relationships ? Did you become suspicious ?


I don't know yet...I'm just flirting at this point. I will not be dating until the D is final. I hope I can trust again but I fear it will be a while. Both of my marriages have ended because of WW's infidelity. I am going to have to do some work on myself as well to understand how this relates to me and my choice of women. I doubt if I will ever get married again because of it. I am done having children so what's the point?

My goal is to be happy again with just me...emotionally self sufficient. I have been deeply hurt and I have the scars. I do fear it will take one saint of a woman to get me to blindly trust again. I am somewhat jaded now because I do believe that most people do have the "cheating gene" within them. It is just buried deeper in some than others. Given the wrong person and circumstances, weakness of boundaries, it could surface and destroy everyone around them. 

I have always been attracted to women but I knew that. I was aware of that possible weakness in me. I made conscious effort to keep my distance and boundaries up around women that I was attracted to so I would not have to make the choices that could lead to cheating.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Vegemite said:


> I've learnt more than I ever wanted to about personality disorders since Dday. It really shocked me when I took more notice of people I encountered. Many people, to varying degrees are just plain selfish and it's all about them.


I have to say that I do the same thing now. I have less tolerance for adults and their poor judgement. I am more outspoken. It seems like I pick up on everything now - words, mannerisms, etc of everyone I come in contact with. Hypervigilance training I guess - does not leave you. 

What have I gained from this affair (well, first, I lost A LOT), but I found myself again, am putting me right up front with importance, am more attentive, in the best shape of my life and feel more confident than I have been in 14 years - how is that for weird?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Torrivien said:


> Did you feel guilty after finding out ?I wondered what I had done wrong.I didn't feel guilty.I felt inadequate.I felt like less of a woman.I felt powerless and stripped.
> 
> How did you get over it (whether if you stuck with your wayward spouse or left her/him) ?The only thing that got me over it was distance and time.He's a coworker so I used my entire bank of saved vacation from the last 6 years.It allowed me to take a LOT of time off to consider whether or not I wanted to return to the job and being his coworker.
> 
> ...


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> What have I gained from this affair (well, first, I lost A LOT), but I found myself again, am putting me right up front with importance, am more attentive, in the best shape of my life and feel more confident than I have been in 14 years - how is that for weird?


It isn't weird at all. It would have been sad if you didn't take what happened as a defibrillating shock.
The dark thoughts and the graphic images work as great motivators when I run. It's easy to sustain rythm and distance when you feel chased by something.



Decimated said:


> I have always been attracted to women but I knew that. I was aware of that possible weakness in me. I made conscious effort to keep my distance and boundaries up around women that I was attracted to so I would not have to make the choices that could lead to cheating.


What makes you think you're attracted to women that would cheat on you ? I am really interested to know the pattern you discovered.
I've only been with one woman my whole life, I discovered that I tend to be "a giver" which is unhealthy way to be and not a good thing to accustom your partners to. I'm counting on working on that on therapy.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

While it is hard that we are together here is a list of things that make it a like easier:
1. I do not hide my emotions from him. I let it all out...the tears, anger everything.
2. I turn to him when I hurt.
3. I let him know if his current actions are bothering me. 
4. We hug, kiss and say I love you alot.

None of the above would be possible if he was not fully invested in making this marriage work. When I cry, he holds me and cries with me. When I am angry, he takes it with striking back....then apologizes for the affair. He now takes the time to look at me, tell me I am beautiful, even stroking my hair in bed without sex. I am grateful that he chose me. I cannot fathom how much more it would have hurt for him to chose her.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *Torrivien*
> 
> What makes you think you're attracted to women that would cheat on you ? I am really interested to know the pattern you discovered.
> I've only been with one woman my whole life, I discovered that I tend to be "a giver" which is unhealthy way to be and not a good thing to accustom your partners to. I'm counting on working on that on therapy.


I don't know if I've discovered a real pattern as of yet. Here are a few off the top of my head.

Both wives were from divorced families.
Both wives were not college educated...I am.
Both wives did not have careers per say...just jobs.
Both were slightly estranged from there fathers.
Both wives were conflict avoiders.
Both wive were not goal setters...or achievers.
Both wives were beautiful.
Both wives were fashion conscious.
Both wives were deeply insecure...but wouldn't admit or talk about it.
Both wives were obsessed with what others thought of them.
Both wives could not leave the house without full makeup.
Both wives developed shopping addictions...on my dime.
both wives had the disposable philosophy...if it's broke, don't fix it...throw it out and get a new one
Both wives hated exercise...until they started cheating.
Both wives were takers, not givers...especially the last one.
Both wives didn't understand the need to save $ for retirement...short term thinkers.
Both wives came from lower income families/lower achievers.
Both wives got bored easily...higher stimulation people...needed to be entertained.
Both wive sought external validation.
Both wive were selfish...especially the last one.
Both wives had unrealistic expectations of marriage...in retrospect.

It is also interesting what you say about being a giver. That is me...all the way. I have always been a people pleaser...a giver. I have over looked my needs in order to satisfy theirs. Making so many sacrifices for their happiness. Over time they want more and more to a point where I guess I could no longer satisfy them. They began to seek satisfaction externally. I short...I spoiled them, especially the last one. She turned into a rotten little princess.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Decimated,
I see very well that you focused on this matter. I think that what's common, and may explain their behavior, is:
- The insecurity (without admitting it)
- Seeking external validation. 
- Having unrealistic expectations. (This may be the most dangerous of all. Chuck Palahniuk said: Nothing can be as perfect as you can imagine it. I wished more people understand this).
- The daddy issues. The mothership of all women's issues.
In my case, my soon to be ex wife have strong issues with communicating and understanding her father while he is one of the nicest men I ever met.
I never understood how her, or her mother, could have been so harsh on him. Her mother is a pathological feminist (every man is only worthy of hate) and never forgave her husband for having a penis. Always complaining of his body odor, his voice, his mannerisms, his anything basically.
When you keep acting this way in front of your only child, it will f*** up their judgement.

I don't how I will work on my "giver" side, it wasn't until recently that I started seeing it as an issue actually. It's not that I'm this male Mother Theresa, it's just that I don't know how to be otherwise.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> - The daddy issues. The mothership of all women's issues.


Yes...interesting. 

Her father was really quiet. I knew him for 11 years before he passed away and yet...I never really knew him. He never spoke from his heart and was emotional unavailable. 

His drinking, going out/bowling/golfing all the time, emotional distance and cheating killed their marriage. Her mother was a saint and put up with his crap for a long time before divorcing him. My wife never felt close to her father growing up. When her mother passed away, she tried to get closer to her father but he died unexpectedly 4 months later. So she lost both parents within 4 months. Her affair started within one year.

That is when she made the transition from being like her mother to being like her father. The drinking, need to go out, bowling, emotional distance, and cheating...just like her father.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

The thing I question is that in a lot of the stories told, the cheater gives "reason" for the A being that the BS no longer gave them attention (sexual, emotional, cuddling, etc.).. they did many other things outside of home away from their spouses ( golf, "girls or guys" night outs, etc. )... basically they felt neglected so they sought attention from another person.

So, my question is, how many people have had the person that is the one doing the neglecting to be the one who cheated, while the neglected one stayed faithful? 


This is why I question some saying that the BS has to accept 50/50 responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage...


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

The way you phrased the question is hard to follow, but in my opinion, by the time it gets to that point, where an affair seems like not a bad idea, they are probably both neglecting each other, they've become roommates.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I think that SkaterDad and WelshPanda may fall in this category. They both seeked hard to retain their spouses (even after discovering about the affair) yet their waywards persisted on "seeking their happiness".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Guilt? Maybe. Actually, it was a feeling that I must have done something wrong to make her want to cheat on me.

I asked her if it was and she seemed upset by this question of mine. She said no, it was just something she had to do for herself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> The thing I question is that in a lot of the stories told, the cheater gives "reason" for the A being that the BS no longer gave them attention (sexual, emotional, cuddling, etc.).. they did many other things outside of home away from their spouses ( golf, "girls or guys" night outs, etc. )... basically they felt neglected so they sought attention from another person.
> 
> So, my question is, how many people have had the person that is the one doing the neglecting to be the one who cheated, while the neglected one stayed faithful?
> 
> ...


Well, I stayed faithful, but had a stupid revenge affair about two years later.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> So, my question is, how many people have had the person that is the one doing the neglecting to be the one who cheated, while the neglected one stayed faithful?


My hand is way up!

I was always more of a giver in our marriage. The balance started out a little more even, 60/40 in the beginning but as the years went on, she invested less and less. The transition was so gradual that I didn't even realize how lop-sided it was getting...until her affair. Then it went from 70/30 to about 95/5... overnight.

This is a snapshot of what her entitled, selfish life looked like when she started her affair.

She worked 18 hours a week (3 days, 6 hours per)...refused to work more. I worked 50 hours a week.
She shopped and met for lunches with her friends on her days off...and was meeting her OM as well.
Her money was hers...my money was ours.
She has approximately 200 pairs of shoes...I have 5
She insisted on her GNO's and went out every week or so with her friends drinking and dancing.
She also bowled once a week on top of that and would stay out late frequently while I was at home with our kids.
I paid all of the bills from my income.
I got her new cars every year...nice ones and big enough for her and her OM to f**k in...nice...your welcome.
I drove an older used car to compensate.
I paid all of her credit card debts.
I paid the credit card debt from cards she opened in my name...that I didn't know about!
I cleaned the house more then her.
I did the grocery shopping on a pretty regular basis.
I did the majority of the laundry.
I played with the kids, helped them with their homework, and tucked them in at night.
I did all of the home maintenance and lawn work.
I was always the initiator when it came to sex and was turned down often. When I did get lucky, I did all the work...(she never returned favors) and acted like it was a chore.
She was the one who was emotionally unavailable.
I rarely got a "thank you" for any of my efforts.

My whole world revolved around her and our kids...they were my focus. Her focus was on herself...50/50 my ass! 

If anyone had an excuse to cheat...it was me. The physical and emotional neglect alone would have been enough but yet I remained faithful. 

I wish someone would have slapped me years ago although her relatives did try to warn that I was spoiling her.

The sad thing is after the divorce is final I will still be supporting her selfish, spoiled ass for many years...thanks no fault!


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Decimated said:


> I don't know if I've discovered a real pattern as of yet. Here are a few off the top of my head.
> 
> Both wives were from divorced families.
> Both wives were not college educated...I am.
> ...


I couldn't have said it better than this. All points valid for me to (about my WW).


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

It is natural to question if there is/was something about you that is lacking. Is it somehow your fault that she did it? Was it something that you did or did not do?

Also the reduced self esteem and low personal confidence is part of the process.

You have to understand that you did not cause her to do what she did. It was some imaginary "need" that she had and still cannot define. Since she cannot pin point it she blames you, the marriage, sun spots, full moon, high tide, anything but what it actually is - her selfishness and feeling of entitlement. Classic blame-shifting and rewriting the marriage history.

I had the same feelings until I realized that I didn't do anything. I did nothing to prevent her cheating because I was not given the opportunity - she never expressed sadness or said she was unhappy. It had nothing to do with me. I am the same man I was before. I refused to let what she did define who I am.

She made this mess not me. I was confident in myself before and nothing she did was going to change that.


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