# The bottom just fell out of my world



## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

First, read this post...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=54081

This is all a bit raw..

A few times recently she has been going to the cinema alone. She's been stressed and wanted to get out of the house.

It's been a bit stressful recently as we've been organising an event together, but it's over now. She told me that she wants Thursday to be what she called a "Me day" OK she needed to relax.

This evening she told me she was walking to the shops to buy some coke. This is very unusual, and when she had gone for 30mins, and didn't reply to texts, I opened the door to see if I could see her on the road. I saw her sitting on a wall having an animated mobile phone conversation with someone.

When she came back she told me she'd met someone in the shop would would not stop talking. I knew this was a lie.

So after the kids went to bed I confronted her about everything. The cinema was a red herring, but she admitted she'd met someone online on a dating site. He lives about 150 miles away, and she wants to meet him on Thursday. They've never met, just skyped.

She says she still loves me, but things have changed and she no longer feels the same way.

Of course this is entirely my fault. She realised after what I did in the previous thread, she was surprised that she wasn't more upset. 

She still wants to meet up. I'm trying to be all grown up about it. I want her to be happy, but with me. But if not with me, then someone else.

I've suggested marriage counseling, but she hasn't said yes or no. Maybe it's too late.

Is it?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

This all happened about 30mins ago. I'm in the bath...


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

So youre thinking this is a revenge affair?


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Shes having a revenge affair?????


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Or she was already having the affair, hence her lack of anger when he cheated.


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Or she was already having the affair, hence her lack of anger when he cheated.





Good point


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Clearly what you did affected her, even if she said it didn't. Did she start talking to this guy after she found out about you, or before? That could make a difference in the next steps.

Marriage counseling is in order, for sure. I would not be okay with her meeting up with this guy, regardless of what you did. You don't have to be "grown up about it" - what she's doing isn't grown up and is wrong. She may have swept things under the rug but clearly there are things you guys need to talk about.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Original affairs are selfish, revenge affairs are to cause pain. Malicious. She cannot meet this man after telling you and you saying 'no' and then have you get back together. "Honey im going to meet this man, ride him and tell you all about it and then we can move on" Ya right! Its too twisted. Your cheating is your fault but you are NOT responsible if she does this. Maybe you 2 have to D and move on.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Most likely she was already in an affair long before yours. Check her dating account. It was most likely created well before your own infidelity. How do you explain the movie if all she did was skype. The argument means that i is more emotionally involved than you know. Get access to her mails/FB immediately before she cleans them up.


She might have been using a craigslist like service to meet local people. You are in deep sh*t. Don't let the guilt of your own affair hold you back in getting the whole truth


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't know. It's not an affair yet as they haven't met AFAIK.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

She says the movie was entirely innocent. I think I believe her.

She says she did not want to hurt me.

She's gone to bed now, She wanted me to kiss her on the lips goodnight.

The man is married with children.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know. It's not an affair yet as they haven't met AFAIK.


That is what she told you. Not necessarily the truth. Verify. Check when her dating profile was created. What site is it ? You think she gets into argument with people she skyped with?


I am repeating this again. Don't let the guilt of your own affair hold you back in getting the whole truth

You can deal with a revenge affair. But this seems deeper.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Inform this guys wife.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> That is what she told you. Not necessarily the truth. Verify. Check when her dating profile was created. What site is it ? You think she gets into argument with people she skyped with?
> 
> 
> I am repeating this again. Don't let the guilt of your own affair hold you back in getting the whole truth
> ...


What do you mean about the argument?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't know what dating site it is. And I don't have access to her email as the password has changed.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, dear.

It's possible when she took the situation well she might have been in shock, or thought: "Great! Now I can bring my own affair out into the open!"

Now, this is a bit of a stretch, but are you certain she did not set up the encounter with the OW? (Devious idea, but although implausible, not impossible.)

When did she sign up on the dating site? Before or after your drunken incident?

Be watchful. Something about this is a bit off, to my devious mind. But then, maybe that's just the Saesneg side of me!


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Red flags are flying! 

You had an affair and your wife didn't react much at all.

Now you catch her talking to some guy she met on a "dating" site, aka a cheaters site.

And her email password has changed recently?

Something is wrong here!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know what dating site it is. And I don't have access to her email as the password has changed.


Dash it to heck. That's what is known as a red flag...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know what dating site it is. And I don't have access to her email as the password has changed.


Any chance you can wake her up and ask for it. 

Before that check for browser history. 


Buy a keylogger and install it into the home computer immediately(tonight).

You affair does not absolve her of her own lies.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I think she does it all on her iPhone. 

I'm ****ing devastated. How can I save this? Please?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She's seeking out a revenge affair, and while what you did was wrong very wrong, this is actually more wrong.

She has two choices: forgive you or D. Cheating, bringing a third person into your marriage is not an option.

If she doesn't stop talking to him, and doesn't stop on the dating site you should infirm her you will be seeking a D.

Ths isn't ok. And it is abusive for her to do, just like it would be abusive for her to physically hit you for what you did.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Do you have access to her phone/bill?


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## jay80_98 (Jul 14, 2012)

HappyHubby said:


> Original affairs are selfish, revenge affairs are to cause pain. Malicious. She cannot meet this man after telling you and you saying 'no' and then have you get back together. "Honey im going to meet this man, ride him and tell you all about it and then we can move on" Ya right! Its too twisted. Your cheating is your fault but you are NOT responsible if she does this. Maybe you 2 have to D and move on.


I disagree, you've thrown her off balance now she's going to test things a little. She's got every right to meet him, lay off and give her time to experience things so she can make a qualified call. If you want the marriage well she needs her space else she will resent things. Leave her alone for now and just be there for her and with her for atleast the same amount of time you had your affair.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I think she does it all on her iPhone.
> 
> I'm ****ing devastated. How can I save this? Please?


Call her out on it and refuse to accept it.

Explain to her, that while you cannot force her to do anything, you can choose to leave her as a consequence of what she does do.

Btw, she also can't force you to do anything. So for instance you can follow her to her meet up with the OM and you can notify the OMW of his actions.


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## jay80_98 (Jul 14, 2012)

justonelife said:


> Red flags are flying!
> 
> You had an affair and your wife didn't react much at all.
> 
> ...


Of course something is wrong YOU CHEATED! and by golly why should you trust you have all the answers! let her have her space


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## jay80_98 (Jul 14, 2012)

Understand there is no marriage to be saved, the marriage died the day you had your affair now a new relationship will be built but she's got to know its what she wants


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jay80_98 said:


> I disagree, you've thrown her off balance now she's going to test things a little. She's got every right to meet him, lay off and give her time to experience things so she can make a qualified call. If you want the marriage well she needs her space else she will resent things. Leave her alone for now and just be there for her and with her for atleast the same amount of time you had your affair.


No, revenge affairs do not work well. Trust me, I speak from bitter personal experience as someone who did this.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

jay80_98 said:


> Understand there is no marriage to be saved, the marriage died the day you had your affair now a new relationship will be built but she's got to know its what she wants


Her cheating isn't ok here not at all. He doesn't owe her a free hookup as it won't heal the marriage. If she wants her freedom because of his affair, then she should file for D and move on.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

BTW, in case you didn't read the original post, I didn't have an affair, it was a stupid one night stand that didn't end up in sex. No emotional attachment at all.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

jay80_98 said:


> I disagree, you've thrown her off balance now she's going to test things a little. She's got every right to meet him, lay off and give her time to experience things so she can make a qualified call. If you want the marriage well she needs her space else she will resent things. Leave her alone for now and just be there for her and with her for atleast the same amount of time you had your affair.


UFB! ARe you serious???????? He had a ONS AND he couldnt perform. Did you read the attached thread????? WTF??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> BTW, in case you didn't read the original post, I didn't have an affair, it was a stupid one night stand that didn't end up in sex. No emotional attachment at all.


In all fairness, Jay80, WelshPanda did say, in his first post in this thread,


> First, read this post... (linked)


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

So your incident and immediate confession was 4 months ago... Did she join a dating site and find this man since that time or has this been going on before?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Socke said:


> So your incident and immediate confession was 4 months ago... Did she join a dating site and find this man since that time or has this been going on before?


I have no proof, but she says is she joined about a week ago.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Verify everything she said. You will lose your family if you hesitate out of your own guilt. Now is the time to be ruthless and end her affair. To end the affair, you need to know what actually is happening. 

Does she sync her phone to your home computer? Does she use the home computer? Or does she do all the stuff on her iphone. She could well be deleting all the proof in the bed right now!! 

What is your plan now?


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

So you had a ONS without actual sex and she wants to deliberately set out to meet other guys leading to...what? full on sex? You have to have an honest conversation with her about what she is doing and why. You have to tell her your boundaries and be prepared to end the marriage. You don't want an open marriage do you?

Being firm and truly willing to end the marriage is the only way to save it ironically.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't know what my plan is.

The problem is, I like to think the best of other people, and the worst of myself. I'd like to think she's told me everything.

I guess I'm going to have to break her trust and try to access her phone.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know what dating site it is. And I don't have access to her email as the password has changed.


Red flag.. she changed passwords, people don't do that unless they have something to hide. 

I don't think that his wife's affair is a "revenge" affair.

I think what is going on here, is that your wife was having an affair before you told her about yours. She wasn't even remotely mad or upset or anything when you told her about yours.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know what my plan is.
> 
> The problem is, I like to think the best of other people, and the worst of myself. I'd like to think she's told me everything.
> 
> I guess I'm going to have to break her trust and try to access her phone.


 She hasn't told you everything, they usually never do. you can catch them red handed in the act and they still won't admit it!

Key logger on her computer. desktopshark is a good one and fairly cheap. It is complely hidden, unless she knows exactly what she is looking for. I think if i remember correctly it was like 24.00.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I have the iPhone. Its not pretty reading. Lots and lots of sex emails, and boob pictures sent. Apparently they are planning to **** this friday in a hotel. It doesn't look like he's 150 miles away. Looks like he's in this city.


****..


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

how far back do the messages go?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I have the iPhone. Its not pretty reading. Lots and lots of sex emails, and boob pictures sent. Apparently they are planning to **** this friday in a hotel. It doesn't look like he's 150 miles away. Looks like he's in this city.
> 
> 
> ****..


And how long has the affair been going on for? Was the OW a put up job, do you think? (Enough alcohol to make you cheat was enough alcohol to make you cheat-proof, ironically...)

Is this your wife's first affair?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I have the iPhone. Its not pretty reading. Lots and lots of sex emails, and boob pictures sent. Apparently they are planning to **** this friday in a hotel. It doesn't look like he's 150 miles away. Looks like he's in this city.
> 
> 
> ****..


Pass the info onto his wife, that should take care of him.

I suspect she may have already met with him when she claimed to be at the cinema.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

No I don't think they have met yet. Texts go back to 24th Aug.

They are planning to meet half way and go to a hotel.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Oh... she's meeting one person on Thursday and another of Friday


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't think the ow was a put up job. She was a friend of my brothers and she lives 100s miles away. She didn't know she existed.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Wait, you had a ONS, oral sex only ..... ONE woman..... and she's going to meet TWO men??? Even if this WAS a revenge affair situation, in making plans for TWO, and even doing the sexting thing... totally different ballpark. Everyone, save for one person I won't mention, has given good advice here. I suggest following it. You know what my husband did when he saw some texts/emails AFTER (he thought) my first EA ended? I was sleeping, he turned on the light, and started yelling at me... up to you, whatever you do, of course. But that did get to me when he did it.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> Oh... she's meeting one person on Thursday and another of Friday


Wow. I guess the floodgates have opened. Not just a revenge affair, she's one-upping you.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> No I don't think they have met yet. Texts go back to 24th Aug.
> 
> They are planning to meet half way and go to a hotel.


Whhhaaat?? Hotel? so its straight up sex right off the bat. WTF. you already know this? For sure? 

I mean whats there to discuss? what more do you need to know? She is going to have sex with someone else and is not even really trying to hide it. Just rubbing it in your face. MAN. Dont let her do this. At least you had the courage to face up to your wrongs and now she is trying to use that for justification for what she is going. So not okay. Cowardice if you ask me. Do your best to stop it. Pull out all the stops. She could be clouded by anger. 

If you cant stop her. D. D. D
DIVORCE.

Ouch. Im sorry man. I hope you can stop her from ruining it further. 

I could NOT get over another man inside my wife.. I can't imagine I could anyway. frick that would be tough. My penis is literally shrivelling up just thinking about it.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

If it were me I'd be tempted to tell her:

You meet with either of those two guys and we're done. What I did was wrong, what you are proposing to do is just plain evil.

Dont tell her what you know or how, just that. And then be prepared to follow through. Unfortunately.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Whatever you do WelshPanda, don't blame yourself or try equate what you did with what she's about to do.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> Oh... she's meeting one person on Thursday and another of Friday


 You made a mistake, felt guilty and told her. You showed remorse. She on the other hand was not unhappy that you cheated and is now using this to have sex in hotel rooms with total strangers. She is doing this in your face without remorse or guilt. There is a big difference between what you did and what she is doing. 

Tell her that what you did was wrong but what she is even more wrong. Tell her that you do not want an open marraige and if that is what she wants you will file for divorce to free her. Tell her that unless she promises to break off all contact with these other men, you will consider that her answer. Be firm now or your marraige is over anyways, just in a more painful way.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I think I need to wake her. Its 2am, but I'm not going to sleep. I was just about to walk through the door, but I don't have enough cash for a hotel.

I replied to the man using her phone. Told him I'd read every text and told him she was planning to see someone else on Friday.

OK, here goes...... heart pounding.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Steady on..


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Well she agreed, sleepily, to all my demands. Let's see what's she's like in the morning.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

What precisely did you demand?

And get some rest please.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

make a copy of all the msgs. so you will have proof in hand. sync the phone to icloud or itune. then ask for all passwords. don't misstep this WP, your wife has said she don't feel the same anymore, so if you want to keep your marriage, you have to be proactive. your screwup does NOT mean she gets a free pass.

To tell you the truth, those movie nights may have been hotel nights. And since you agreed to them, she is upping the ante and going further afield. 

Do you ACTUALLY KNOW she was at the movies ???


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

More info has come out after demanding the whole truth. One of the movie nights was a hotel night. :-(


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> More info has come out after demanding the whole truth. One of the movie nights was a hotel night. :-(


Damnit. Im angry for you. 

I personally think the best bet for you at this point is to regain power in the situation. FILE for divorce for effect. Im assuming you want to fix it and make it work? If she is truly remorseful then this will bring it out and allow you to dictate proper boundaries, acceptable terms for R and gain your self-respect and dignity back. You will also gain her respect. 

I would do this because I would feel anything less would be rug sweeping. 

What does anyone else thing about this strategy?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I can't rest. I'm wide awake 3:15 :-(


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What's her intentions from now on?

Edit: oops missed your earlier post. Did she mention how long this has been going on?


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Dude, I'm sooooo sorry. You boyh need a lot of help. If no children are involvedn it may be time to just cut your losses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> More info has come out after demanding the whole truth. One of the movie nights was a hotel night. :-(


 Come on, you know in your gut that if one of the movie nights was a hotel night, then all of them were. Trust your gut and not her, she is a proven liar and a cheat.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm really sorry and we're here for you.
Don't be guilty anymore, and if you do, don't show it.

Be strong, we're here.
Right now, you must save all the information you have somewhere safe and then you'll have to confront her in the morning. Don't give in to her blame.

If she tells you, you cheated first. 
Tell her that it happened once because you were drunk, and you told her right afterwards. It was a stupid mistake but the guilt burned you to the very core.

If she tells you she was confused.
Tell her that it's not an excuse and that all this sounds very premeditated. Even though you got confuse once, you came clean right afterwards.

If she threatens to leave, call her on her bluff.

I'm really starting to think she was cheating before you did.

Hang on, we're here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You know he reaction to your aborted ONS makes more sense now. It looks like she's been hooking up well before your ONS, you just never paid attention before.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I think I need to wake her. Its 2am, but I'm not going to sleep. I was just about to walk through the door, but I don't have enough cash for a hotel.
> 
> I replied to the man using her phone. Told him I'd read every text and told him she was planning to see someone else on Friday.
> 
> OK, here goes...... heart pounding.


You should text both men and tell them your wife has Herpes and you do not want them getting infected. Then tell them to be expecting copies of their texts to be sent to their wives and families.

And sorry to hear about her "movie" night. I hope you guys can recover from this. As you can surmise she did not get over your ONS.

Time to get tough my friend.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't think the ow was a put up job. She was a friend of my brothers and she lives 100s miles away. She didn't know she existed.


As far as you know.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

So to summarise. The hotel night was guy#1 full sex with condom, the hotel planned in Bristol was guy#2 (never met), and she was planning a meet with guy#3(never met) on Friday.

Am I mad to still want to keep her? I know it's insanity but I still love her and I'd forgive anything if she can be made to love me again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> So to summarise. The hotel night was guy#1 full sex with condom, the hotel planned in Bristol was guy#2 (never met), and she was planning a meet with guy#3(never met) on Friday.
> 
> Am I mad to still want to keep her? I know it's insanity but I still love her and I'd forgive anything if she can be made to love me again.


No, not mad, just deeply in love with your wife.

However, counselling is a must, I would suggest.

How long has she been stepping out on you? Before or after your drunken incident?

If the latter, how many incidents of full sex does she thinks equals one failed attempt with another woman on your part? Two? Twenty-two? More?

You might need to both get checked for STDs.

Incidentally what you did was wrong, what she is doing is just plain evil.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

So, even if she still messes around with other guys you would be ok as long as she love you ???

Dude, do you think she loves the guys she is sc**wing ??

What you need to be doing now, is asking yourself how much of this are you willing to put up with.

I can tell you now, no woman can love a man that she does not respect' 
So if you wants to keep her, you better be Billy bada** as far as she can see. You are going to have to show her you are willing to kick her to the curb. You need to make her show you she still want you. Not the other way around.

You see, she not only told you she has slept with another man, she also told you she was making plan to sleep with two others.
Now how much respect do you think she will have for you if you beg for your marriage ??

You should have no conversations with her this morning. If forced to, only say you are seeing a lawyer today to start the D.

I really think this has been going on MUCH longer than you know, and you confessing made you look weak in her eyes. So weak that she feel she can bring her cheating into the open.

Word to the wise " cheaters lie ", so you may never know how long she has been doing this, or really how many hotel visit there has been. REMEMBER, Mr. movie was NOT a dating site hookup. He has been there all along


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

> Of course this is entirely my fault.
> 
> 
> > NO ITS NOT !!!
> ...


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Your wife is not marriage material. Im sorry you fell in love with the wrong woman. Divorce her. Find a person with a modicum of decency. AND STICK UP FOR YOURSELF. At least be able to look yourself in the mirror when this is all over. Protecting your pride protects your future sanity.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

If she CAN be marriage material the only way your gonna get her to mold herself into that is if she hits rock bottom within your relationship. you MUST file for D to make her feel the loss.. only then will she feel remorse, respect you and be prepared to truly commit. And practice the 180. If all that doesnt work then she doesnt truly love you and wants you as a doormat, in which case you TRULY want a D.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Check when her dating profile is created. Get all her passwords!! ****!!


Yes, you are crazy if you want to reconcile already. Take your time. Digest what happened


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I really hope that your eagerness to reconcile comes only from love and not a lack of self esteem. Don't be afraid that your demands aren't worth a seperation. Even if she'll stay, she wouldn't respect you for it.
She might not know it, first, but it will eventually hit her one day.

She had full sex with a stranger and was counting on meeting two other guys, you went down on a girl when you were drunk. You've been both very stupid, but the level of your integrity beats hers big time.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I know everyone says to check when the dating profile was created. I have joined the site, but it doesn't say. Maybe it will if I pay ££, but no guarantees.

But everything points to it being created last week. Shortly before 24th.

Maybe I am being naive. Maybe I need to grow a set. But I love her so much. This is a major blow, make no mistake. 

The next few days will be crucial.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

With your mindset it appears to me as if you are willing to accept an open marriage. Your wife can screw 3 guys (and probably more lined up) and you will forgive her because you love her. Show yourself some respect and show her some tough love. You don't condone destructive behavior in anyone you love.

Give her an ultimatum of divorce or working on the marriage. Working on the marriage means total transparency, the dating profile is deleted, she goes NC with however many OM there are, and she does whatever it takes to rebuild the marriage. Then be willing to carry through one what you threaten. You must be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

I'm sorry but what you did pales in comparison to what she is planning.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I know everyone says to check when the dating profile was created. I have joined the site, but it doesn't say. Maybe it will if I pay ££, but no guarantees.
> 
> But everything points to it being created last week. Shortly before 24th.
> 
> ...



No she will have an email address linked to her dating profile. She should have received a message to the email when she created the account. If it has paid membership, you can check the transaction date on the credit/debit card she used. What site is this?


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

What sandc said made me want to ask you something.
Let's suppose that she didn't cheat on you before you had your affair, her reaction would suggest that she would be in favor of an open marriage. What would be your answer ?

Would you accept ?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I probably didn't make it very clear last night. It was a surreal, out of body experience.

I woke her up and demanded she discontinue all communication, and to delete her dating profile (she's made it inactive, its not easy to delete).

Possible red flag time...
She had texted the Thursday guy to say I'd found out and that we may separate. I texted him back in the middle of the night, with some abuse. He texted back in the morning and said "wtf, what's happening?" I happened to be there when the text arrived, so I made her cut it off right there. But she texted him back saying they would "have to leave it". In my book leaving it is not stopping it, it's putting it on hold. It told her this and she picked up the phone to make it clear. I had to deal with kids for a few moments and when I came back she had texted him. I asked to see the text she sent, but she said she had deleted everything from her phone, so I never saw the final text. :-( 

I pointed out that she had shown no remorse at all. Since then she has constantly told me she is sorry.

I have his mobile number in my phone. I want to tell him to stay the hell away.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> No she will have an email address linked to her dating profile. She should have received a message to the email when she created the account. If it has paid membership, you can check the transaction date on the credit/debit card she used. What site is this?


The site is maritalaffair.co.uk you can pay via SMS, there isn't anything in our bank statement that looks fishy.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Spunoh said:


> What sandc said made me want to ask you something.
> Let's suppose that she didn't cheat on you before you had your affair, her reaction would suggest that she would be in favor of an open marriage. What would be your answer ?
> 
> Would you accept ?


No, I absolutely would not share her. She did ask, and said no.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I asked to see the text she sent, but she said she had deleted everything from her phone, so I never saw the final text. :-(


She probably told him that she would contact him from another phone or will lay it low for a while . Your wife is scummy as hell. Don't belive a word she says from now on.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stop wasting time on the OM - the 100% best way to scare him off is to find his wife and tell her.

Do the same with OM#1

The fact that she continued to text him and delete the texts means she told him she would be in contact and arrange a meeting. That's why she deleted the messages because she didn't want you to read them. She may have told him another email to contact her at or another phone #, she may have even told him to just move it to another date.

You won't win her back by negotiating or being soft at this point. She not only has already full on cheated (and do not for a minute believe they used a condom, cheaters NEVER DO), BUT she has chosen to do it with many men. 

From your story, you are an attempted and mainly failed cheater, but your wife is now a successful and remorseful cheater. Saying sorry isn't remorseful. 

Think back to how torn up you where. Now think back to her actions, how she met up at the hotel and came home,looked you in the eye and didn't break a sweat, didn't shed a tear, didn't feel bad in anyway.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> No, I absolutely would not share her. She did ask, and said no.


She asked for a open marriage? Oh god!! Her affairs were going on for quite while.

Regarding the payment through SMS, there should be some record right? Either on the phone bills or cards. I am not entirely sure how cell phones and their payments work in UK. 

Do you have access to her email ?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> No, I absolutely would not share her. She did ask, and said no.


Did she actually ask to now have an open marriage?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What Shaggy said. OP, your wife is not you. Don't think that she will react as you would in similar scenario. She looks like she is hell bent on cheating and continuing it. You know her better than anyone else.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I suggest you need to get onto the dating site yourself using her account. Change the email contact to your email address so you can see what she's being sent. Who knows how many other guys she's got lined up also.

Do you have a keylogger on the computer she is using? If not get it on there now.

Since she is now the cheater in the family, it's time for her to surrender all her passwords to all sites etc. Total transparency.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Did she actually ask to now have an open marriage?


She said "Would you consider sharing me?" I assumed this meant an open marriage. But looking back, it could also have meant a threesome.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I texted the guy...

"Stay away from my wife. We are going through a bad patch, but can work it out. Don't destroy our family" (Quite civil eh?)

He replied. "Done.. number and email deleted. I wish you all the very best and am sorry for making a difficult time harder for you. Good luck in the future" and "Don't text me again"


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

She might well have used a condom. I've had a vasectomy and her getting pregnant would be alarming.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

keyloggers are not possible as she does (did?) it all on her iPhone.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> She said "Would you consider sharing me?" I assumed this meant an open marriage. But looking back, it could also have meant a threesome.


Does it matter whether she meant "open" or 3some? Really? The point is, you don't want other men banging your wife.

Didn't you say her phone is an iPhone?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> keyloggers are not possible as she does (did?) it all on her iPhone.


Others have said deleted texts can be retrieved by syncing the iPhone.... I don't have one, so I have no idea how it is done.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Regarding the payment through SMS, there should be some record right? Either on the phone bills or cards. I am not entirely sure how cell phones and their payments work in UK.
> 
> Do you have access to her email ?


It's possible to have an itemised bill, but it costs extra, so we don't.

I don't have access to her email, unless I have her iPhone in my hand, like I did last night.

I'm half expecting her to change her PIN so I cant use her phone, but she hadn't last time I checked.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Others have said deleted texts can be retrieved by syncing the iPhone.... I don't have one, so I have no idea how it is done.


She never syncs her iPhone. Last time she tried it took hours, and then crashed. It's an iPhone4, but I don't think she uses iCloud or whatever... I'm an Android guy...


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

She was definitely cheating on OP from earlier, She wanted an open marriage means she is not ready to loose any OM 1,2,3 or how many she had.

She is remorseless and disrespectful even after finding out means, you deserve someone else.

Dont remain as a cuckold or doormat saying you loved her very much, its not love its weakness. Women hate and disrespect weak men, they only treat them as cleaner wrass.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> It's possible to have an itemised bill, but it costs extra, so we don't.
> 
> I don't have access to her email, unless I have her iPhone in my hand, like I did last night.
> 
> I'm half expecting her to change her PIN so I cant use her phone, but she hadn't last time I checked.


If she locks her phone after this, you kick her out and file for divorce.

Pay for the itemized bill. Better yet, ask how she paid for it.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> If she locks her phone after this, you kick her out and file for divorce.
> 
> Pay for the itemized bill. Better yet, ask how she paid for it.


I have a feeling that women get more things free in the site. Men cannot read DMs, I know that. She might not have paid at all. I think the best way is to check the gmail account that she set up,she would have had a "Welcome" messages. I will try to access her phone again when she is home.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You will be lucky if she won't delete all the evidence.(She deleted the text right in front of you). Right now your wife doesn't give a f*ck about you. I can see it clearly from her actions. Even her response to your infidelity.They are not even affairs. She simply doesn't care. You will have a very hard time in the next few months.

See if you can get her to log into a computer and check her trash and sent mails. 

Just looked at the website. It is free for women.

Read about the 180. It will help you a lot


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I think it is time to offer a different perspective to consider, so I will be the one to take the blame and the flame. 
_Disclaimer: Assuming your wife didn't cheat on you before your infidelity!
_
Let me break the news... your wife's perception of the world has changed. Her perception of your marriage has changed. Her perception of you has changed. It makes a difference.

Let me tell you part of my aftermath story, read it and imagine it's your wife who are telling it.

How could he do this to me? I thought we had something very special together, that our relationship was unique. That he was the coolest guy in the world. That it was a relationship where it wouldn't be possible that anyone of us would cheat on the other. His attempt to cheat on me doesn't fit in at all. I just don't understand anything. It's not fair.

Wait... what if:
* Reality is different from what I thought it was? 
* The world just isn't fair at all and are not meant to be?
* Our relationship isn't special in any way, it is just as crappy as other crappy marriages
* My husband is not that special?
* My husband has desires for other women, whether consciously or unconsiously is not that relevant.
* My husband has been capable of cheating in all our relationship - it was just that the opportunity hadn't been there?
* Our informal marriage contract had the clause, that it would be OK to cheat, only I wasn't aware of it?

What if all the above are true? What if this was in fact my real world instead of the rose colored one I imagined it was?

then I get to have something on the side as well. I rejected other males for 15 years even though I was tempted, and now I learn that I could have tested the waters myself, because it is acceptable... only I didn't know that.

WP... your wife might have changed her perceptions. I did, and it helped me cope with things and prevented me from going crazy. I am not saying that you should accept your wifes cheating, but maybe she does not see your marriage the same way she did before as a result of your actions.

Where would I go with all this rambling? I think you should sit down with your wife, with the knowledge that both of your perceptions has now changed, an figure out if you can create some common ground again. Create a new relationship, if you will, where both of you know that the other is capable of cheating.

I wish you the best.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

You've had your mistakes, but it gives no reason for another to justify an action or motive to do wrong. Cheating is an intrinsic evil, it is always wrong, it will never be right, under any circumstance.

The 180. You've tried your nice ways. Your wife is deeply rooted into cake eating. She wants you to support her financially, and to support her decision to screw any man she chooses. Do not speak to her about anything unless she brings it up. I would personally ask her to leave, or I'd leave myself. If you have children, you being OUT of the picture, will mean she will have to find a BABY SITTER for her to go [email protected]#$^ around literally or in any sense of the word. The 180 or any space will clear your mind for you to be set for good judgement and not clouded with your "love" because love does not allow a spouse to disrespect themselves, and dishonor the marriage. The 180 will also push a reality onto the spouse that you completely disapprove and have her come to reality of the seriousness of the damage she is causing. You have to be serious and firm. I repeat, you being nice and emotional is not working, do not show emotions, speak sternly with facts and do not argue.

No lion SHARES his meal with hyenas. Screw these losers, forget about them, go seek their wives and expose expose expose! Expose to your parents, to her parents, to your family, to hers, to the OM wives. You need to put the pressure on her with EVERYONE that could possible be involved in her & your lives. Never support or condone even through omission for cake eating or any irresponsibility from your wife or from your children.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Or she was already having the affair, hence her lack of anger when he cheated.


 I agree. Start doing some research into phone logs and whatnot.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

dogman said:


> I agree. Start doing some research into phone logs and whatnot.


 Sorry, I sent this before reading the whole thing.

Stay strong my man.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Welsh

Your wife is communicating with you and that is good. The fact she mentioned "sharing" is not good however.

You caught her and she had multiple hookups planned. Really to good.

Get the kids out of the house and have a "coming to Jesus" conversation about what you each want.

Find out how long her screwing around has really been going on. 

My take, this is recent and revenge for one your ONS. But the others could be right and this has been going on longer.

Get the truth. You both know what each other has done so it is time to be adults.

If you both do not know what you want then cease and desist all hurtful actions and go speak to a mediator together as well as a counselor.

You both owe that to your family.

If you feel she is just lying then dig deep and do what you have to.

You both ave made too many mistakes already. It only gets worse if you both let it get worse.

HM64


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I suggest you take away her iPhone and give her a basic phone call making phone, no texting plan if you can avoid it.

Think long and hard and do not negotiate her level of faithfulness. She is either 100% faithful or there is no marriage.

Also do not believe anything told to you by an OM. They don't care about you, your family,or marriage. They want sex. When you confront them they are like roaches: the run and hide, but they will return. The only way to get rid of them is exposure to their wives.

You both need to get tested for STDs. She has been with who knows how many guys and each one of them is engaged in sex with many partners. Your risk for STDs and HIV just because the same as a prostitutes. Actually likely worse since the prostitute is likely smart enough to actually use the condom, cheaters almost never do.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

She gave me access to the new email account. It all started on 21 Aug. No more real info. A bit difficult to read, especially pictures of her vagina she emailed.

I feel a little better if anything.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

check the trash and sent folder


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> check the trash and sent folder


I did.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Most waywards that come on here contemplating revenge affairs are destroyed by their spouse betrayal and ponder on a revenge affair, they dont' normally act the way your spouse did. Not stating that there was something before, but maybe her character has always been leaning to go wayward. She's addicted to these encounters. She needs a cut of good cold turkey, martial law style.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Dates suggest that she has thought about it for some time, and now that you have changed the marrital contract, she feels justified. 

Can't say I blame her, but you need to sort it out with her before it gets too much out of hand.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She's gone. She doesn't give sh!t. 
I don't think it started just 1 week ago, she didn't went to confort you on your shame 1 week ago to sing the dating site, f0ck some strangers, plan to do more strangers and suggest you to "share her" in 1 week. No way.
No remorse = Huge consequences.
Time to lawyer up, time to pack her things and kick her out, time for hard 180.
You don't share. The rules or divorce. No grey areas. no cake eating.
You are now the BH of a remorseless, defiant, foggie, entitled, no empathic wayward wife. I fear she's far gone.
Don't forget the STD test anyway.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It's also telling that she didn't do it once, felt horrible and empty and stopped. She is now fully into being the cheater and though she is complying now because she got caught, she isn't remorseful. I predict you'll find out there is more here than you know so far, and she is going to keep at it.

If she had told you she felt empty horrible etc, heck if she had come home an thrown it in your face to hurt you I would see hope. But she instead took it as a open road and jumped into it with both feet. I also find it surprising to believe she went from faithful wife to posting vijay shots so quickly. That takes a lot of relaxing of normal values to do, and isn't something a first time cheat just does.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She has embraced the "lifestyle", with no regrets.
I don't know whether a nuclear bomb would wake up her.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> No, I absolutely would not share her. She did ask, and said no.


This is going to be very hard.

Did you talk about your feelings to each other ?


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

I think your in a fog. The reverse of an affair fog that the wayward one feels. Sometimes i think the BS goes into a fog of OMG i cannot lose this person, she is my world, i cannot survive without her. I know i did. I think its normal for some of us. Dont beat yourself up over it. It will fade in time. 

You deserve better than this and i have to say, i think your wife has some seriousemotional issues. 

Also, lets not forget that you cheated too. A ONS giving oral sex to a stranger is very very bad. 

I believe that you need to get to a counselor ASAP, get emotionally stable and then think about cutting your losses and letting her go. I know this seems unfathomable right now, but once your out of the oh dear god dont abandon me, please love me fog, you will be able to see this much better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> The site is maritalaffair.co.uk you can pay via SMS, there isn't anything in our bank statement that looks fishy.


On of the biggest cheater sites in the UK.

Does your wife have a card you don't know about?

Just checked: Look out for this on the bank account:


> You will be billed in the name of Global Personals


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> [=Shaggy;1027599]I suggest you take away her iPhone and give her a basic phone call making phone, no texting plan if you can avoid it.


A Tenner upwards in PC World...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

By the way, she might use the other cheater sites, too...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Welsh

Some of the posts on this page are very strong.

And if you confirmed your wife just joined the cheater site on the 21st that was just 8 days ago.

Not a very long time to get active but she is obviously very angry at you.

Now you both have some decisions to make.

Your ONS was really bad, drunk or not no excuse. And I do not think you have made any.

Your wifes response is just over the top. Not only damaging to the marriage but extremely hurtful to you to herself and she is putting you guys at risk for permanent damage to be done.

Have you guys sat down and had that honest conversation yet?

Does she want to stay married?

Is she willing to stop hurting herself and you with these adult hookups???

Are you both willing to get counselling to see if the damage can be fixed?

That is what you need to do now.

I do not agree with jumping to D. You blindsided our wife and did incredible damage to her psyche. She just turned it around and made it 3x worse.

So in my book you are both now culpable and need to fix this situation either R or S.

HM64


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You have to keylogg the PC nad put spyware at the phone.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I now have complete control of her profile on the dating site. I can see that, yes it did start early last week, but reading the messages (of which there are 700+) she mentions that a previous profile got disabled, so she's had to start a new one. This is not looking good.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

> Marital affair delivers a dating arena for those looking for adult dating and extramarital relations. Certain 'needs' need to be met and sometimes life is better when the complications are left at the door. Join us today and you will be able to have quality intimate relations with people who are interested in upgrading their private lifestyle like you are. With maritalaffair.co.uk, people like you will find the pathway to a more satisfying existence than ever and with quality sites like Marital Affair bringing in new people all the time, the variety of new members is fantastic. Dating is about delivering what it says, an increase in amazing experiences with other people with minimal effort.


This is the description on the website. F***ing unbelievable.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> she mentions that a previous profile got disabled


As I suspected it didn't start 1 week ago.
Keylog the PC, dont reveal your sources, play dumb, she's deep into this, this started time ago, possibly even before your ONS, that why her reaction was so detached. You claims she had depression issues for a while, maybe she was into this since then or maybe she is doing it to self medicate.
From what I've been reading the last couple of years when a wayward suggest open marriages or alike is because: a) they don't want to give up aparticualar AP they are deeply attached (basicaly the ask permision to keep the cake) b) they are so deep into the cheating life thye have it totaly retionalized, as you gave them permision already (for not catching them).


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

They do have key loggers for cell phones. webwatcher.com - web monitoring. 

I really think that she has been doing this for much longer then you think she has. It has more then likely been going on for months or years! And i don't think she will stop this any time soon if ever! She will probably start doing it again once you guys get comfortable.

Is it possible for you to get her call and text logs?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She didn't go from zero to vjay shots and juggling multiple men a week since the 21st. No one gets that slick that fast.

Get on her profile and post the you arethe husband, you've caught her and you plan on following up with each wife and gf of the guys she's been chatting with,

Post it on her profile, send it out to her contacts there.

Put the fear of discovery into them!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Om#1 was before wasn't he?? So if she has been going to the movies before that, she LIED. He could be someone she met while you guys organized the event. 

Many say don't worry about OM. 
I say if he knew she was married he pays the piper for being a sleeze.

Also, she is giving up WAY to easy with the openness. After keeping you from seeing the NC txt she say she sent.

Dude, I truly hope you are not rugsweeping this. This is deeply hurtful stuff that she did. And she went from 0 to 60 in no time.

TAKE the iphone today like someone said.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Om#1 was before wasn't he?? So if she has been going to the movies before that, she LIED. He could be someone she met while you guys organized the event.
> 
> Many say don't worry about OM.
> I say if he knew she was married he pays the piper for being a sleeze.
> ...


Did the OM know she was married?

Yes. And this is the biggest clue to that


> maritalaffair


 So yes, he must have known.

Of course if it was called: "cheatonyourspouseandchildren.co.uk, they be more honest, but would have far fewer members...


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Did the OM know she was married?
> 
> Yes. And this is the biggest clue to that
> So yes, he must have known.
> ...


I will never understand how they could rationalize something this aweful. There's some weird sh** going on the human mind.

It will definetly lose of its appeal if it was called as you put it (which is more true).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I now have complete control of her profile on the dating site. I can see that, yes it did start early last week, but reading the messages (of which there are 700+) she mentions that a previous profile got disabled, so she's had to start a new one. This is not looking good.



Looks like she was cheating on you way before your affair(for how long ?) incident but somehow stopped it after a while (Guilt maybe ?). After your ONS(?), she felt more than justified that there was no sense in stopping and resumed her affairs immediately. You are looking at a hardcore serial cheater here. 

Have you confronted her with the information? I would be surprised if she told you the truth. be very careful.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Look back at your marriage. Were there time you were suspicious of what she was doing?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Can you work out her old profile name etc? You could reactivate the profile and see how long she really been doing it. I bet she is on other sites too.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

The previous profile lasted about a day before it got disabled. As far as I can see, there was nothing going on before that.

We now talk openly about it, and she says I can ask anything I want and she will be honest with me. She's given me passwords to anything I want.

After a lot of soul-searching, tears and hugs, last night, we had sex, and it was the best it has been for years.

I don't know what's going to happen long term. We've she wants to stay married. She wants to lose weight and feel good about herself again. She says having having very low self esteem, having men think of her as sexy again, boosted her confidence. She adamant it wasn't revenge.

I think i have trust issues. Today she walked to a friends house. An hours walk, which is a really odd thing for her to do, seeing how unfit we both are. I drove to pick her up 3/4 of the way there, it had started to rain. I really thought she met someone on the way. My heart was racing. But she was where she said she'd be.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

But you'll still have to watch her for the rest of your marriage. Once she starts losing weight and looking good again she'll start getting attention from men. How will she handle that?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

One day at a time Welsh.

What she is going to realize is she old have been 400lbs with one leg and one arm and there still would have been some piece of crap that would have sex with her.

You need to verify that she is telling Yu the truth and you need to be honet as well.

And just remember she trusted you once too.

It works both ways.

Start walking together. Rebond together with activities, not only sex.

Show Interest and you will get it back in spades.

If not this will happen again.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Do you know if this friend knew of her activities ??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She adamant it wasn't revenge.


That is exactly what I told my wife when I confessed to my affair, when she asked me if it was revenge for her affair.

Of course, I was wrong. It was revenge. TAM helped me to realise that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> She didn't go from zero to vjay shots and juggling multiple men a week since the 21st. No one gets that slick that fast.


:iagree:

IKR? Yet we see this all the time. Trickle Truth at its worst. *There's always a progression*. Just like that story where the BS walks in on his WW doing two other guys. That could not be her first rodeo.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If it wasn't revenge then what was it? Why now and not amonth ago.

My advice is to not accept her doing out of the ordinary things, NOR her going out alone at all for quite a while.

She was using her ME TIME to have sex with random men. ME TIME is gone for the foreseeable future.

Also since she was(is) using the phone for hookups you need to address the phone. Either replace it with a dump phone, or start checking the apps, and tell her not one deleted message until you've read it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If it wasn't revenge then what was it? Why now and not amonth ago.
> 
> My advice is to not accept her doing out of the ordinary things, NOR her going out alone at all for quite a while.
> 
> ...


My revenge affair took place about 2 years after my wife's affair. So revenge affairs don't have to take place close to the initial betrayal.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My revenge affair took place about 2 years after my wife's affair. So revenge affairs don't have to take place close to the initial betrayal.


I think the point Shaggy was making was that the wife claims it isn't (like you did)...So, if it wasn't revenge, what would she say it was? What did YOU say yours was? I get that revenge can be months down the road. Not sure if I would classify my husband's as revenge EA or not, but it very well could be. The important thing is that we both agree it was cheating. 

But, I do agree that you don't go from zero to multiple men in that short a time frame. This was building.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What if she was calling someone on her walk. Just make sure you get the itemized bill anyhow for your mental peace even if it costs more.

Also, don't start trusting her immediately. The crying and heartfelt talks are common after the D-day. Some cheaters relapse, some don't. You still need to keep checking on her for sometime(without telling her about it). There is thread on this forum on how good an actors cheaters can be when they go underground.

What are the consequences she agreed to ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I think the point Shaggy was making was that the wife claims it isn't (like you did)...So, if it wasn't revenge, what would she say it was? What did YOU say yours was? I get that revenge can be months down the road. Not sure if I would classify my husband's as revenge EA or not, but it very well could be. The important thing is that we both agree it was cheating.
> 
> But, I do agree that you don't go from zero to multiple men in that short a time frame. This was building.


I told her she wasn't to blame for my affair, that it had nothing to do with her affair. I now know that although I was responsible for my affair, it was erroneous of me to believe it had nothing to do with her affair.

I wonder if WelshPanda gave his wife the opportunity to live out a fantasy of hers of having multiple partners? Just a thought, as that would fit in with her ability to accelerate from zero to whatever in 0.4 seconds.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Anyone else expecting she is going to be buying a burner phone ASAP?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Anyone else expecting she is going to be buying a burner phone ASAP?


You can get them for £10.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What if she was calling someone on her walk. Just make sure you get the itemized bill anyhow for your mental peace even if it costs more.
> 
> Also, don't start trusting her immediately. The crying and heartfelt talks are common after the D-day. Some cheaters relapse, some don't. You still need to keep checking on her for sometime(without telling her about it). *There is thread on this forum on how good an actors cheaters can be when they go underground.*What are the consequences she agreed to ?


Warlock, What thread is that???


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> The previous profile lasted about a day before it got disabled. As far as I can see, there was nothing going on before that.
> 
> We now talk openly about it, and she says I can ask anything I want and she will be honest with me. She's given me passwords to anything I want.
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm happy for you!
I'd rather you have trust issues than deal with an inconsiderate wife. I don't know her, but I believe the reasons she gave you are very credible. Low self-esteem can seriously damage someone's judgement.
I think you should be patient and start therapy to go over the pain of the previous physical affair.

Did you put out some rules ?
- Full access to her mail, facebook.
- Delete/deactivate her dating profiles.
- Access to her phone bills.
If she asks the same of you, I think you should accept.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

You were right.

Heartbroken.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

what happened?


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Welsh, what did you find out?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry mate. What have you found? We're here for you man.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

To cut a long story short, I found a message on facebook . Her trying to contact the guy she was due to meet in a hotel. The guy I sent a text to.

I've moved out. Easier on the kids. I should be able to stay with my brother for a while. £25 in my pocket is going to have to last a while!!! . Currently in a pub where its £5 a pint.. nice views though.. lol.

Gutted. Drove down here with kids in car asking questions (2&4 yrs), me in tears before I stopped. Son 4 had drawn a picture of me. Insisted I brought it home with me, when I came home. Daughter (2) asking me if I'd had a nice day. heartbreaking absolutely heartbreaking.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Seems she's choosing to not give up her drug of choice. It means she is also choosing being a lier. Right now she doesn't care about you, the marriage, her kids. What matter is inmediate self gratification.

I'm very sorry.

Time to lawyer up, find out your rights, what you can expect. Start protecting you finances. Think mind/long term. You are now alone with your kids. Moving out can be then wrong move.
Familiarice with 180, implement it.

The 180 degree rules
Just Let Them Go


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Just to be clear, the kids are with her. She drove home with them.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Tell her to expect the divorce paperwork. Then get started on it. I agree, it's time for the 180. Go dark on her. Only communication should be about children. Prepare yourself for your new life.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks for the links. I think I've already fallen foul of most of the 180 list. Lol.

One day at a time. Communication black out unless its to do with kids..


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Communication black out unless its to do with kids...


Ot doesn't require too much words. No chit chat. Logistics can be agreed very easyly. Don't be so ready to respond, not facilitate any info. Don't give her any kind of emotional feedback. Not angry, not sad. Bussiness like.
She's not the woman you used to know.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

One day at a time Welsh. Do not let her play you.

When you screwed up on your ONS were you and the wife in a good healthy relationship?

Were you having sex regurlarly?

I can understand your wife being in revenge mode but she is acting over the top.

You need to protect yourself now. And do not let her turn you into a babysitter while screws around.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to expose immediately. Exposé to family and friends. Find that OM and his wife. He is no doubt married or he wouldn't be on that site and paying for a hotel, so you can blow his world up.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> One day at a time Welsh. Do not let her play you.
> 
> When you screwed up on your ONS were you and the wife in a good healthy relationship?
> 
> ...


I thought we had a good relationship. We didn't have sex as much as I would have liked. Often she would just offer a bj as she didn't want it. Maybe I didn't make it very exciting. (Going by the chat sessions I have read)


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I've definitely seen a different side to her. She's cold. Unemotional. You'd think after 20 years together she'd be a little upset about the breakup. But there is nothing. I'm sure it's the antidepressants. They've stopped the unhappiness, but also stopped the love.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How is she reacting to the whole thing? Was she planning to continue? Did the FB guy respond back? You might want to expose to the family and his wife.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> How is she reacting to the whole thing? Was she planning to continue? Did the FB guy respond back? You might want to expose to the family and his wife.


I don't know if he replied or not. She obviously wants to. She says she doesn't know what she wants. But I know for a fact she has changed her Skype password, in case I hacked it. She's only ever used it for this,


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Skype on her phone or the computer? 

What is the plan now?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

Skype on her iPhone.

Plan? What plan?  

I'm at my fathers house, and will see how the days play out..


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

That will difficult. I don't live there anymore.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

This is no time to be without a plan. You cannot let her keep you in limbo, while she hop from bed to bed.
Have you decided what is your line in the sand yet?? That line that says she has gone tooooooooo far.
You should consult a lawyer as soon as possible. not saying file, just to have info.
Also you should expose this stuff to family and friends to get a support network going.
I'm sure the VETS can help yo on planning much better than I could.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

By the way is there a thread describing what all the abbreviations mean? Most I've worked out, but R?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't have money for legal advice. I need to find out how to do free if possible.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Most lawyers do the first consult free.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

You probably won't qualify for legal aid and if you plan to divorce on the basis of infidelity, you have 6 months to do so. Some people don't choose this option but you're looking into 3 years of legal wrangling if you go with any other route.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Why do you have no money. Where is your pay going? I hope you've moved it out of ny joint accounts by now.

Have you exposed her cheating with multiple men yet to family and friends?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

R = reconciliation. The sticky threats on top of forum explain the abbreviations.

I think you have a pretty messy situation, I would think it is worth considering to just file for divorce and then start all over from a clean sheet.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I've realised that my infidelity and her infidelity are comparable.

1. I was under the influence of alcohol. If I could have performed, I probably would have. Making me a cheater in all but a technicality.

2. She is under the influence of antidepressants. Therefore I don't think what she did is evil. She doesn't realise what she has done yet, she is still under the influence.

The antidepressants have made her cold. Ironically, she feels better, in herself, than she has for a long time.

I just want my wonderful wife back on this planet, and someone to take this imposter away.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm not sure, she's just started on a new one. She was on Citalopram until a few weeks ago.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WP, if you hadn't been drunk, you probably wouldn't have been tempted by the OW, so don't knock yourself out too much.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm also on citalopram, it delays my orgasm far longer than id wish.

It hasn't affected my drive though.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> WP, if you hadn't been drunk, you probably wouldn't have been tempted by the OW, so don't knock yourself out too much.


Totally agree. I've never tried it on before, but I'm nearly always sober.

Maybe she wouldn't have done what she did without the affects of ADs.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Go back home WP, your family has a much better chance if you are there. 
Have you talked about the AD causing her to act this way ?? There is much work and investigation to do to bring healing to you both.
Explain to her that she NEVER acted this way before her meds was changed.
She may have though of it, but it seem they gave her the strenght to see it through.
Go home WP and heal your family.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Go back home WP, your family has a much better chance if you are there.
> Have you talked about the AD causing her to act this way ?? There is much work and investigation to do to bring healing to you both.
> Explain to her that she NEVER acted this way before her meds was changed.
> She may have though of it, but it seem they gave her the strenght to see it through.
> Go home WP and heal your family.


I am a little worried, now. If the ADs can help someone make such bad decisions re having multiple affairs, what other bad decisions might they bring about?

Doctor's appointment for the both of you, perhaps?:scratchhead:


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

MM makes a good point WP, thats why I said she may have been thinking of doing this before the med change.
Either way, you NEVER leave your house. Why did you leave ??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> MM makes a good point WP, thats why I said she may have been thinking of doing this before the med change.
> Either way, you NEVER leave your house. Why did you leave ??


Hmmm, maybe. But I was thinking of other potential bad decisions. (Not going to elaborate.)

Do the ADs clash with other meds? Does she drink alcohol with them?


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I left because we decided a break apart was the right thing to do.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I've now found she joined a lesbian dating site at the same time....


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What the hell? The skeletons keeps coming out the deeper you dig.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

tdwal said:


> How did you find that out if your not at home?


I just can. I wish this was in the private forum.

Let's just say I work in IT.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I've now found she joined a lesbian dating site at the same time....


Oh. Right... I lost a long term girl friend to a woman, so I can see how this might make you worried.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm just reading this. 

http://m.topix.com/forum/drug/effexor/TQ4I2UR28DFD3N759

And feel sick to my stomach.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh. Right... I lost a long term girl friend to a woman, so I can see how this might make you worried.


I'm not that worried.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm sorry for this slip back. I think you're on the right path considering the anti-depressant. Not feeling depressing anymore can take the good side of someone, not feeling depressing anymore due to chemicals cand do worse.

I understand your decision to leave the house. 

Do you consider talking to her about the AD pills ? I doubt she'd understand, and maybe she'll say stupid stuff like you don't care about her happiness or you're jealous of the medicines but it may put the hint of the idea for her to think about it over time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> I'm not that worried.


That's good to know! 

You'd think that 30 years later, I'd be beyond being triggered, but apparently not.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I have tried talking to her about the drugs, but she is happy on them


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

That's my thought exactly. I hoped I'd be wrong.
Take the 180 up a notch and focus on yourself. Cheap thrills doesn't last forever and it only make people feel worst, later.

You didn't know about her affair, you showed that you loved her and she kept cheating.
You knew about her affair, you showed that you loved her and she kept cheating.
No, you know about her affair, stop showing that you love her and make her understand that she has to earn it by giving the impression that you don't give **** anymore.

Your wife needs fixes for her low self esteem, she'll end up one day realizing that these affairs were never about her but about the few men that she let use her. And she'll hate herself for thinking that the solution to her problems lied in a pro affair website. I don't think that she will appreciate feeling like a low income stripper or go on being on a website that pimps her for free.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

I've spoken to a friend who is a junior doctor. She thinks I need to go to her and my Dr alone and explain everything. She might have mania/bipolar triggered by new antidepressants.

The Dr wont discuss her directly, but may ask me to bring her along.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Welsh

Those drugs make people crazier.

Some of those posts are down right scary.

Watch out for your kids because your wife is definitely acting over the top crazy.

HM64


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

WelshPanda said:


> I don't know what dating site it is. And I don't have access to her email as the password has changed.


Put a keylogger on her computer.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Let's not get too carried away with the ADs. I agree you should strongly advise that she see a doctor to review the dosage, consider alternatives and try to determine if they are triggering more dramatic behaviors. However, it would be extremely rare that they would cause a sustained period of total insanity and would be the primary cause of her affair(s) and lack of remorse. And if that is true or even possibly true, then you indeed should not leave her alone with your children. 

The ADs may well be a contributing factor, but regardless she needs to own her actions (and reactions). Just as alcohol is a contributing factor in a one night stand, it is still not an excuse for corrupt behavior.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

At home. But I can't stop crying. So much for 180. :-(


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

WelshPanda said:


> At home. But I can't stop crying. So much for 180. :-(


One day at a time Welsh.

Stay strong now and protect the kids.

Just figure out what your next move should be.


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## WelshPanda (Aug 19, 2012)

She'll never hurt the kids. I know what you're thinking, but she won't.

I had to leave. I got unbearably upset.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

If WPanda is certain that she is not in a state where she could possibly hurt the kids, then her meds are clearly not at root cause for her affair fog. 

I'm sorry you are going through this, WPanda. Sounds like you have a had awful day. Hang in there.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Rotten to the core. More scandalous than a wh....


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

U have my sympathy. u need to go into self preservation mode 
Get mad not sad. dont let her see u cry nemore . feign indifference and pity . does it seem like revenge?


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