# Asexual and Other Issues



## Tanner B

I have been married for 20 years and have two teenage kids. For the last few years things have not been good. The biggest issue is related my wife's lack of interest in sex.

Twice in the last five years I came close to leaving. Both times she begged me to stay.

She refuses to go to a marriage counselor. We went once for two sessions and it ended with the counselor and my wife practically screaming at each other. 

In the last year we did a lot of activities together to try to improve things. We would typically get along well at the beginning of the evening but usually it would end with an argument that would either directly or indirectly be related to sex.

I am Jewish and my wife is Christian. For most of the marriage this was an non-issue as neither of us were religious. In the last few years my wife and become religious and does not respect my views.

About six months ago I hurt my back. I am having back surgery tomorrow. My wife is supposed to take me. This morning my wife left me the following note. This is the first time she brought up being asexual. I think the note and the timing of it is finally the straw that broke the camels back. I am mainly just looking to get this off my chest and get input from others.


I want you to think about this we have nothing in common in terms of things we love to do. I love Archeology, genealogy, religion and American History. You love sports. When we attempt to do the remaining things such as eat together at nice place, go away somewhere or go to a winery it always ends in a fight. I can't be who I am. I can't say any thing without pissing you off. I think it's too much money to spend on a bad memory.

I am also tow years shy of being 50 years old. I don't want to be or act like a twenty year old any more. I want to be who I am. I may be close to being asexual...now. The asexual group is growing... We are tired of how society is so obsess with it. There is so much money in the sex industry. ....There is so much focus on it. I think our society has an unrealistic view of it because of the media and the 24 hour exposure. Especially when 50 year old women are expected to act like 20 something year old women And those twenty year old women will be in my shoes one day...I feel that this is a control issue here with you and it has made me go more towards being asexual it's nothing positive about it anymore. I have learned you will criticize anyway. i just want to be who I am.

I don't want to be who you want me to be. I want to be me and trying to be someone I am not is making me miserable me. I have not been happy in this marriage for a long time. It did not happen 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. it's really heading towards 20 years.

I have checked out to protect me.

There is an old song...there is no good guy, there is no bad guy, it is you and me and we just disagree.


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## john117

Her Rationalization Hamster worked overtime to craft this response. 

What I hear her saying is: I've learned this new SAT word "asexual" and I'm using it as a weapon of convenience to have my way. In reality, I have enough reasons in my head to be averse to sex and this here new word is ideal.


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## WorkingOnMe

She begged you to stay but you were foolish to agree to it without setting and enforcing the terms. It's not too late. She's practically begging to be dumped. You have plenty of time to find a real wife.


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## Tanner B

john117 said:


> Her Rationalization Hamster worked overtime to craft this response.
> 
> What I hear her saying is: I've learned this new SAT word "asexual" and I'm using it as a weapon of convenience to have my way. In reality, I have enough reasons in my head to be averse to sex and this here new word is ideal.


Exactly and in her mind I am a bad guy for just not being accepting of it. I have also never cheated on her despite her aversion to sex.


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## MachoMcCoy

Tanner B said:


> Twice in the last five years I came close to leaving. Both times she begged me to stay.


So you...stayed.

And now you're here asking why she's not taking your concerns seriously.

:scratchhead:

Seriously?





Tanner B said:


> I have been married for 20 years
> 
> I have not been happy in this marriage for a long time. It did not happen 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. it's really heading towards 20 years.



Why do you girls do that? Marry someone you don't love? You take a man's life away when you do that. Ever find out your past was a lie? It ain't pretty. I NEVER would have believed the past can change. I'm a believer now.

OP - I already knew she didn't love you before I read that. I'm sorry you just found out your life was a lie. THAT's what you need to fix. My 50 year old wife will lay spread eagle with a "hurry up already" attitude. No thanks. But she WILL give me sex any time I want, right? What's my problem, right? 

The difference between you and me is that I'm not here asking what I need to do to be in a loving relationship again. I choose to keep my family together. My personal decision. But I'm also not here asking "what do I do?". I fully understand what I have to do and I fully understand I've made my bed. Now my job is to help men like you and me accept that their marriage is over/never was. 

Welcome to the club. Now make your decision and live it. No more crying to us looking for an answer you SURELY already knew before you got here.

20 years. If you want someone who will love you, there is no alternative.

But you know that... right?





Tanner B said:


> There is an old song...there is no good guy, there is no bad guy, it is you and me and we just disagree.


And be wary of anyone who quotes Dave Mason to make their point.


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## 225985

OP, if you are willing to stay in a sexless marriage, then stay and DON'T COMPLAIN. If not, then your only other options are divorce or open marriage in which you have friends with benefits.

Sorry, I do not see other options. Your wife is not going to change. 

I empathize with you. I am about your age and I find my libido INCREASING. You only have only life and if you want to live it sexless, then stay.


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## Married but Happy

Good luck with your back surgery. Once you are well again and can get around easily, file for divorce. You'll be far happier once you do.


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## soccermom2three

Wow, the timing of that letter is horrible! I think once you have your surgery behind you focus on healing and work on a plan to divorce. I hope the surgery goes well. Take care of yourself.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
You are down to the standard 3 choices:

Leave: "Dear XYZ" I love you but I don't want to live the rest of my life without physical passion. I know it doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to me. I want that with you, but if that is not possible, then we are just too different to remain married.

Cheat: Say nothing, find a woman who is the HD in a HD/LD relationship, have sex with her until you get caught (which may be a long time), then divorce.

Live like a monk: Stop trying, don't ask for sex, don't get angry that you don't have it, just accept that it will never be part of your life.


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## Hope1964

blueinbr said:


> OP, if you are willing to stay in a sexless marriage, then stay and DON'T COMPLAIN. If not, then your only other options are divorce or open marriage in which you have friends with benefits.
> 
> Sorry, I do not see other options. Your wife is not going to change.


:iagree::iagree:

Sorry dude. This is about it. Heal from your surgery then hire a lawyer and file. If you really want to, give your wife one last chance and tell her that if she doesn't agree to seeing a sex counselor/marriage counselor with you and working to improve things, that's it. Although I think you'd be wasting your time with that myself.


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## Thor

Best of luck with your surgery. Back pain sucks, hopefully this is a cure for you.

Does your wife have any history of sexual abuse or other emotional traumas?

Regardless, she has given you all the info you need to know. Absent some major interventions there is no hope of any change at all. Either she has a psychological issue, a medical hormone issue, or there are very deep major relationship problems aside from sex.

If I received a letter like that from my wife on the eve of a significant surgery, I would be done with the marriage. Jhmo.


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## MachoMcCoy

Hope1964 said:


> give your wife one last chance and tell her that if she doesn't agree to seeing a sex counselor/marriage counselor with you and working to improve things, that's it.


Tell her?

He put a suitcase in his hands TWICE and backed down when she said "no". And he's going to "tell her"?

Talking ain't working. Time to DO something.


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## Tanner B

My surgery went well. I have some time off to take some action.

The letter and the timing of it really made it clear that I need to get out and that I need to follow through this time. I have tried to stay in the marriage for the sake of the kids but I cannot do it any longer.

I do think that when she talks about issues 20 years ago she says that more to be hurtful they anything. For the most part the marriage was pretty good for many years. 

Everything changed around eight years ago. Our youngest son started school and rather than go back to work, she stayed home. We disagreed about it.  She started spending a lot of time on a local messageboard. One morning she told me that she was going to be arrested because she made enemies with the wrong people. Nothing ever happened. She briefly went to see a therapist until she decided the therapist was in on the whole plot to ruin her. 

Based on my internet research I believe she has paranoid personality disorder but she refuses to see any professional. From what I saw from that message board is that she would post bizarre things and was treated as someone who was a freak. However, there was nothing more than that. I would beg her to stop posting and reading that message board. However, she blamed me for not defending her more and things were never the same after that. It also resulted in her becoming a lot more religious. 

Several years ago it got so bad that I did leave and went to live with my parents for about three months. She begged me to come back and said that our marriage was worth another try.

Two things changed recently. My wife did eventually go back to work. She was not making much money and was actually laid off in November 2014. It took her a few months to find another job where is was making about the same as she was previously. Then out of the blue, this company that she worked at prior to having kids won a big contract and offered her a very nice job at more than double the salary she was making. She works very hard at this job now and in 2016 for the first time will make more money than me. In addition, my parents moved across country. I think that she feels like she is now longer financially dependent on me and that am stuck now so it does not matter how badly she treats me. It is going to be difficult for me but I will find a way to get my own apartment and move on. I am now determined to do this.

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## WorkingOnMe

So....no alimony!


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## MachoMcCoy

Tanner B said:


> It is going to be difficult for me but I will find a way to get my own apartment and move on. I am now determined to do this.
> 
> Thanks for letting me vent.


Good for you. I know it will be hard. That's why I haven't done it.

I actually envy you. 

Good luck.


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## AVR1962

Your wife is finally sticking up for herself, living the life she wants without feeling she has to please you. She is done with the sex talks and all the harassment about sex and your life with her being about sex. She wants peace, she is sick of the hassles in your relationship. I get it. I am 53 and have reached that point with my husband of 24 years. We too have no interests that keep us together, he is all into his singular interests, he is not active. I think when couples have no mutual interests it is hard to keep the relationship going, there is no sharing. Marriage is not just about sharing a house and having sex. There has to be mutual interests, time spent together that is not just bedroom time. If your wife has not emotionally left the marriage yet, this is your wake-up call. Don't be surprised if she turns down anything that you try. If she feels all you want from her is sex she will reject you before you even have a chance. What men don't get is how tiresome this all is. Once we get to a point where kids are moving out we look at our lives and see that we have cared and catered everyone but ourselves, sometimes there's regrets and hard feelings. We look, around and realize no one has been there for us so we seek our own happiness and that just might not include you.


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## 6301

Tanner B said:


> I have been married for 20 years and have two teenage kids. For the last few years things have not been good. The biggest issue is related my wife's lack of interest in sex.
> 
> Twice in the last five years I came close to leaving. Both times she begged me to stay.
> 
> She refuses to go to a marriage counselor. We went once for two sessions and it ended with the counselor and my wife practically screaming at each other.
> 
> In the last year we did a lot of activities together to try to improve things. We would typically get along well at the beginning of the evening but usually it would end with an argument that would either directly or indirectly be related to sex.
> 
> I am Jewish and my wife is Christian. For most of the marriage this was an non-issue as neither of us were religious. In the last few years my wife and become religious and does not respect my views.
> 
> About six months ago I hurt my back. I am having back surgery tomorrow. My wife is supposed to take me. This morning my wife left me the following note. This is the first time she brought up being asexual. I think the note and the timing of it is finally the straw that broke the camels back. I am mainly just looking to get this off my chest and get input from others.
> 
> 
> I want you to think about this we have nothing in common in terms of things we love to do. I love Archeology, genealogy, religion and American History. You love sports. When we attempt to do the remaining things such as eat together at nice place, go away somewhere or go to a winery it always ends in a fight. I can't be who I am. I can't say any thing without pissing you off. I think it's too much money to spend on a bad memory.
> 
> I am also tow years shy of being 50 years old. I don't want to be or act like a twenty year old any more. I want to be who I am. I may be close to being asexual...now. The asexual group is growing... We are tired of how society is so obsess with it. There is so much money in the sex industry. ....There is so much focus on it. I think our society has an unrealistic view of it because of the media and the 24 hour exposure. Especially when 50 year old women are expected to act like 20 something year old women And those twenty year old women will be in my shoes one day...I feel that this is a control issue here with you and it has made me go more towards being asexual it's nothing positive about it anymore. I have learned you will criticize anyway. i just want to be who I am.
> 
> I don't want to be who you want me to be. I want to be me and trying to be someone I am not is making me miserable me. I have not been happy in this marriage for a long time. It did not happen 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. it's really heading towards 20 years.
> 
> I have checked out to protect me.
> 
> There is an old song...there is no good guy, there is no bad guy, it is you and me and we just disagree.


 Write her back and tell her you know another song. It's by Ray Charles and it's called "Hit The Road Jack".


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## MachoMcCoy

AVR1962 said:


> Your wife is finally sticking up for herself, living the life she wants without feeling she has to please you. She is done with the sex talks and all the harassment about sex and your life with her being about sex. She wants peace, she is sick of the hassles in your relationship. I get it. I am 53 and have reached that point with my husband of 24 years.


WOW. You had the SAME ISSUE? You fell out of love with your husband almost immediately? Why didn't you leave him then? You stuck with him for your own personal needs and that SUCKS. You took his life away.

Sorry. That was all sarcasm. You are a classic walk-away-wife. This is an "I never really loved you" wife. WAW's are bad enough. The "I never loved you but married you anyway" should be tried and jailed.


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## AVR1962

MachoMcCoy said:


> WOW. You had the SAME ISSUE? You fell out of love with your husband almost immediately? Why didn't you leave him then? You stuck with him for your own personal needs and that SUCKS. You took his life away.
> 
> Sorry. That was all sarcasm. You are a classic walk-away-wife. This is an "I never really loved you" wife. WAW's are bad enough. The "I never loved you but married you anyway" should be tried and jailed.


No, and just from what I have said I see you do not get it.


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## MachoMcCoy

AVR1962 said:


> No, and just from what I have said I see you do not get it.


Oh, I get it. I really do.


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## MJJEAN

AVR1962 said:


> No, and just from what I have said I see you do not get it.


Get what? This woman married a man, meaning she entered into a lifelong sexual relationship with him, and then decided she doesn't want to have sex. 

The only wake up call I see here is for OP. As in, wake up, file the papers, and go seek out a woman who actually likes sex.


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## AVR1962

MachoMcCoy said:


> Oh, I get it. I really do.


Macho, you sound very hurt. Walk away wives who never loved their husbands? Seriously? That would be like saying a man who had an affair never loved his wife. Neither are true. Some people do marry for security but even so people marry because they are in love. Living together, day to day life and the way two people interact and what they do outside the marriage influences how one person feels for the other. If over time a wife is feeling rejected and unloved because her husband had numerous affairs or spends all his time in solitary interests the wife will eventually wither in the relationship. Most females are pretty good at communicating the feelings and their needs to their husbands but it is not always heard or understood. 

With all this in place women tend to be, not always, be the care givers and have a majority of the responsibility for the care of children. We also tend to look out for the best interest of our spouse and will do things for them to please them. Hard to think about when you have been hurt but statistically this is fact. I have seen reverse roles but for the most part it is the woman who is the key to keeping a marriage going thru mutually finding interests and time together, organizing activities for the children, preparing meals for the family for family time together, engaging in conversation which is all needed for the success of a marriage and family.

When one person does not want to participate in this mutual sharing and function inside the marriage and prefers to look outside of the marriage for their own interests the woman will at first ask questions, try to work the problem thru but when this persists and she feels alone and unsupported in her efforts she does wake up one day when her duty/obligation to raise her children are done, and she looks back to a life where she has beat her head against a brick wall trying to get her emotionally unavailable husband involved in the life of her family and realizes her efforts were in vane. That is a sad and horrible place to be.

These women kept trying, kept wanting the best and felt hope to a point. They stayed beyond a point that they needed and then you term them as a walk away wife? Not hardly! These women have given the best of themselves to someone who was too caught up in themselves, their interests and their desires, too busy to pay attention to the needs of his wife.

Perhaps not your situation, I do not know. The words of the OP resonated that this could have been his situation. Unless we were to sit with his wife we do not know her side but based on what was said and based on my own experiences I felt this could easy be a possibility.


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## Nucking Futs

AVR1962 said:


> Macho, you sound very hurt. Walk away wives who never loved their husbands? Seriously? That would be like saying a man who had an affair never loved his wife. Neither are true. Some people do marry for security but even so people marry because they are in love. Living together, day to day life and the way two people interact and what they do outside the marriage influences how one person feels for the other. If over time a wife is feeling rejected and unloved because her husband had numerous affairs or spends all his time in solitary interests the wife will eventually wither in the relationship. Most females are pretty good at communicating the feelings and their needs to their husbands but it is not always heard or understood.
> 
> With all this in place women tend to be, not always, be the care givers and have a majority of the responsibility for the care of children. We also tend to look out for the best interest of our spouse and will do things for them to please them. Hard to think about when you have been hurt but statistically this is fact. I have seen reverse roles but for the most part it is the woman who is the key to keeping a marriage going thru mutually finding interests and time together, organizing activities for the children, preparing meals for the family for family time together, engaging in conversation which is all needed for the success of a marriage and family.
> 
> When one person does not want to participate in this mutual sharing and function inside the marriage and prefers to look outside of the marriage for their own interests the woman will at first ask questions, try to work the problem thru but when this persists and she feels alone and unsupported in her efforts she does wake up one day when her duty/obligation to raise her children are done, and she looks back to a life where she has beat her head against a brick wall trying to get her emotionally unavailable husband involved in the life of her family and realizes her efforts were in vane. That is a sad and horrible place to be.
> 
> These women kept trying, kept wanting the best and felt hope to a point. They stayed beyond a point that they needed and then you term them as a walk away wife? Not hardly! These women have given the best of themselves to someone who was too caught up in themselves, their interests and their desires, too busy to pay attention to the needs of his wife.
> 
> Perhaps not your situation, I do not know. The words of the OP resonated that this could have been his situation. Unless we were to sit with his wife we do not know her side but based on what was said and based on my own experiences I felt this could easy be a possibility.


No, you're the one that's not getting it. Macho isn't saying that walk away wives never loved their husbands, he's saying this isn't a walk away wife because she never loved her husband. This was a straight up case of a woman using a man to meet certain needs then discarding him when she doesn't need him anymore.

WAW's love their husbands at the start but lose that love over time, ergo a woman who never loved her husband doesn't fit the profile of a WAW.


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## AVR1962

Nucking Futs said:


> No, you're the one that's not getting it. Macho isn't saying that walk away wives never loved their husbands, he's saying this isn't a walk away wife because she never loved her husband. This was a straight up case of a woman using a man to meet certain needs then discarding him when she doesn't need him anymore.
> 
> WAW's love their husbands at the start but lose that love over time, ergo a woman who never loved her husband doesn't fit the profile of a WAW.


I am getting it.....how do you know this wife did not know her husband?


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## AVR1962

MJJEAN said:


> Get what? This woman married a man, meaning she entered into a lifelong sexual relationship with him, and then decided she doesn't want to have sex.
> 
> The only wake up call I see here is for OP. As in, wake up, file the papers, and go seek out a woman who actually likes sex.


Is that hoe men view marriage as a contract for sex?


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## Nucking Futs

AVR1962 said:


> I am getting it.....how do you know this wife did not know her husband?


I don't. I'm just trying to bridge a gap in communication between you and Macho by explaining to you what you didn't seem to understand about his post. It doesn't appear that I was effective though and I've surpassed my level of give a ****.


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## MJJEAN

AVR1962 said:


> Is that hoe men view marriage as a contract for sex?



From a legal standpoint, marriage can be annulled if unconsummated. Meaning, the law recognizes the marital contract is a sexual one and if no sex has occurred, the marriage can be invalidated as never having existed.

From a Christian religious standpoint, the husband and wife pledge their entire selves to each other. This includes the body. The Bible even says that a husband and wife shouldn't deprive their spouse of sex unless it's by mutual agreement and, even then, only for a time.


Marriage is, by definition, a sexual relationship. It's not only a sexual relationship, of course, but sex is integral to it. It's not at all unreasonable for a married person to expect regular sex be part of their marital relationship.


Besides, it's complete bullshyte to enter into a lifetime monogamous relationship with someone and then decide to deprive them their basic physical and emotional needs knowing they cannot licitly get those needs met elsewhere.


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## Catherine602

MJJEAN said:


> Get what? This woman married a man, meaning she entered into a lifelong sexual relationship with him, and then decided she doesn't want to have sex.
> 
> The only wake up call I see here is for OP. As in, wake up, file the papers, and go seek out a woman who actually likes sex.


It's not so simple.
She probably thought she entered into a loving intimate relationship with him. An exchange of sorts, she satisfies his needs and he satisfies her's. I am sure she did not see the marriage as a sexual relationship. Maybe she should have. 

OP If she wants no sex and you do, there is only a few solutions. The best for you is to D. I don't think she cares about you. To write such an upsetting letter when you need support shows a lack love. 

She is likely to try and get you back once you get the D started. It's fear of the unknown not love. She is all set with the job. All thats left is seeing after your children and splitting the marital assists.


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## Nomorebeans

OP, I admire you for having tried counseling and other means to try to save your marriage, and I admire you now for planning to leave your wife honorably - to not just stay with her out of convenience and fear of conflict until some horny, desperately lonely woman throws herself at you, and then have an affair instead, like my ex did.

My ex told me he was totally fine with the infrequency of sex in our marriage. He knew I was a victim of CSA and figured that was the cause and it couldn't be helped. Rather than be honest with me about what he really needed in a partner or even ever tell me about it once, he detached, and when he was good and disconnected from me, he took up with someone else behind my back.

I feel like I wasted years of my life with someone who pretended to love me (and told me he did regularly, right up to when the affair started). So I can sympathize with the men here who've been left by walk away wives.

I loved my husband when I married him. I remember distinctly falling in love with him at first sight, in fact. You haven't mentioned whether your marriage was ever good in the early years (or if you have, I've missed it).

In any event, I think the timing of your wife's letter was really sh!tty. I can't speak to whether she is justified in feeling the way she does because I don't know either of you or all the intricacies of your marriage. But it sounds to me like your marriage truly is "irretrievably broken," as the divorce papers will say. If, by the way, you can read those words and feel nothing, like my ex, for you, it really is.


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## AVR1962

MJJEAN said:


> From a legal standpoint, marriage can be annulled if unconsummated. Meaning, the law recognizes the marital contract is a sexual one and if no sex has occurred, the marriage can be invalidated as never having existed.
> 
> From a Christian religious standpoint, the husband and wife pledge their entire selves to each other. This includes the body. The Bible even says that a husband and wife shouldn't deprive their spouse of sex unless it's by mutual agreement and, even then, only for a time.
> 
> 
> Marriage is, by definition, a sexual relationship. It's not only a sexual relationship, of course, but sex is integral to it. It's not at all unreasonable for a married person to expect regular sex be part of their marital relationship.
> 
> 
> Besides, it's complete bullshyte to enter into a lifetime monogamous relationship with someone and then decide to deprive them their basic physical and emotional needs knowing they cannot licitly get those needs met elsewhere.


Good luck with all that!!!


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## Catherine602

MJJEAN said:


> From a legal standpoint, marriage can be annulled if unconsummated. Meaning, the law recognizes the marital contract is a sexual one and if no sex has occurred, the marriage can be invalidated as never having existed.
> 
> From a Christian religious standpoint, the husband and wife pledge their entire selves to each other. This includes the body. The Bible even says that a husband and wife shouldn't deprive their spouse of sex unless it's by mutual agreement and, even then, only for a time.
> 
> 
> Marriage is, by definition, a sexual relationship. It's not only a sexual relationship, of course, but sex is integral to it. It's not at all unreasonable for a married person to expect regular sex be part of their marital relationship.
> 
> 
> Besides, it's complete bullshyte to enter into a lifetime monogamous relationship with someone and then decide to deprive them their basic physical and emotional needs knowing they cannot licitly get those needs met elsewhere.


It's strange that secular and religious laws weigh in so heavily on the sex a woman is required to give in marriage. No other aspect is mentioned? I would think that nurturing children, mutual love and respect, food, water and clothing would get some attention. 

You can quote chapter and verse but it won't change the way human intimate sexual relationship works. People who have mutual pleasure; love, respect, care for each other and communicate with each other should have no problem having sex. 

To me, a sense of entitlement is repugnant when I'm sharing the most intimate part of myself. I'm not automatically required to have sex. I have sex because it is good sex, I get and give, I feel appreciated loved and cared for by my husband. 

Law-like sex is to satisfy the needs of one person as their reward for getting married. The person providing the sex can be disrespected, ignored, get no pleasure out of it but is still required to make their bodies available. That won't work.


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## Tanner B

AVR1962 said:


> Marriage is not just about sharing a house and having sex. There has to be mutual interests, time spent together that is not just bedroom time.


I don't care to get into an argument about this. However, I will say that in the last calendar year we probably went on like 25 to 30 date nights where we did things we like to do together (nice restaurant, wineries, concerts, romantic getaways etc). This was done to improve our marriage and obviously ended up being unsuccessful. Frankly I think my wife is perfectly happy sharing a house and responsibilities as if we were roommates. It is me that wants something more.


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## Robbity

AVR1962 said:


> Your wife is finally sticking up for herself, living the life she wants without feeling she has to please you. She is done with the sex talks and all the harassment about sex and your life with her being about sex. She wants peace, she is sick of the hassles in your relationship. I get it. I am 53 and have reached that point with my husband of 24 years. We too have no interests that keep us together, he is all into his singular interests, he is not active. I think when couples have no mutual interests it is hard to keep the relationship going, there is no sharing. Marriage is not just about sharing a house and having sex. There has to be mutual interests, time spent together that is not just bedroom time. If your wife has not emotionally left the marriage yet, this is your wake-up call. Don't be surprised if she turns down anything that you try. If she feels all you want from her is sex she will reject you before you even have a chance. What men don't get is how tiresome this all is. Once we get to a point where kids are moving out we look at our lives and see that we have cared and catered everyone but ourselves, sometimes there's regrets and hard feelings. We look, around and realize no one has been there for us so we seek our own happiness and that just might not include you.


Are you reading my mind? That's what happened to me in a nutshell. Separated 8 months ago. My choice. Sucks though.


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## MJJEAN

Catherine602 said:


> It's strange that secular and religious laws weigh in so heavily on the sex a woman is required to give in marriage. No other aspect is mentioned? I would think that nurturing children, mutual love and respect, food, water and clothing would get some attention.
> 
> You can quote chapter and verse but it won't change the way human intimate sexual relationship works. People who have mutually pleasure, love, respect, care for and communicate with each other should have no problem having sex.
> 
> To me, a sense of entitlement is repugnant when one is sharing the most intimate part of myself. I'm not automatically required to have sex. I have sex because it is good sex, I get and give, I feel appreciated loved and cared for by my husband.
> 
> Law-like sex is to satisfy the needs of one person as their right for getting married. The person providing the sex can be disrespected, ignored, get no pleasure out of it but is still required to make their bodies available. That won't work.


Where did I say "woman"? The law and religious view is gender neutral. Both the male and the female are expected to meet their marital obligations.

Of course other aspects of marriage are mentioned. The law and religion both have hammered out marital duties that do include the day to day operations such as nurturing children, providing for the family unit, etc. So, no, it's not just sex. But sex is included in and among the other expectations.

I'm not saying that a person should have sex when they are ill, exhausted, etc. Even the Catholic Church thinks it's fine to say "No!" from time to time or even to abstain altogether if both spouses agree to that. 

What I am saying is that marriage IS a sexual relationship and it is both selfish and ridiculous to think that it's ok to deny your spouse long term and without their consent. Especially if you expect a lifelong marriage and monogamy.

You mentioned a sense of entitlement. Well, yes. But that is the entitlement we agree to when we marry. And, frankly, the spouse who denies their partner and then expects them to remain married and monogamous has a fairly sizable sense of entitlement.

If one spouse feels disrespected, ignored, and/or gets no pleasure from the act, then that spouse is free to end their marriage, file for divorce, and never have to worry about being obligated to "put out" again. 

It seems to be a simple thing. Don't really like sex? Don't get married. Aren't really into your SO? Don't get married. Don't want to be responsible for another persons sexual satisfaction for the next few decades? Don't get married.


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## MJJEAN

Tanner B said:


> I don't care to get into an argument about this. However, I will say that in the last calendar year we probably went on like 25 to 30 date nights where we did things we like to do together (nice restaurant, wineries, concerts, romantic getaways etc). This was done to improve our marriage and obviously ended up being unsuccessful. Frankly I think my wife is perfectly happy sharing a house and responsibilities as if we were roommates. It is me that wants something more.


The difference between friendship and a romantic relationship is sex. You seem to have a lovely friendship with your wife, but what you want is a romantic partner. I don't think there is anything wrong with you wanting more. It's natural for adult humans to want a romantic partner.


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## AVR1962

Robbity said:


> Are you reading my mind? That's what happened to me in a nutshell. Separated 8 months ago. My choice. Sucks though.


Robbity....speaking from my own experience. That is where I am in my life too!!!!It hurts, this is not what we want but when our spouse is out looking for other women and caught up in his own solitary interests we eventually get the message that they want is for is sex. I stayed for a long time, too long, for the sake of my daughter and not busting up the family but I saw my own health and happiness suffering. The more I suffered the more I wanted out. Like you, I did a last ditch effort for MC a couple years ago where he told our MC that he thought his interests in other women and having emotional affairs was "typical male behavior," I was so sickened to hear him say this. We had so much counseling and I had been telling him how I felt and when he said this it was like he had not heard a word I said and my feelings were swept under the rug. I did not want to be touched after that. A year went by that we had not had sex and rather than husband talking to be about this he went on an ignoring rampage to get my attention, he is a-typical passive- aggressive. I told him that in order for us to move forward there needed to be some serious counseling. he said he would read no more books, go to no more counseling and he demanded that go return to the "marital bed" and we be as man and wife. Blah! At that point I just wanted out. Thank goodness I was seeing a counselor and he told me not to be pressured to return to the marital bed and that I did not have to feel I needed to obligate with with sex.


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## AVR1962

Tanner B said:


> I don't care to get into an argument about this. However, I will say that in the last calendar year we probably went on like 25 to 30 date nights where we did things we like to do together (nice restaurant, wineries, concerts, romantic getaways etc). This was done to improve our marriage and obviously ended up being unsuccessful. Frankly I think my wife is perfectly happy sharing a house and responsibilities as if we were roommates. It is me that wants something more.


I do get what you are saying and where you are coming from. Have you talked to your wife about what she is feeling, or does it matter at this point?

I have been the same with my husband. I wanted to just keep it as friends for the sake of our child. The reason being, too much hurt, too much betrayal, too much of me trying to pull him into the marriage while he kept to his solitary interests. I don't know if that is your situation but something happened to create what you are experiencing.


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## NobodySpecial

I am not getting this. When she begged you to stay, what did she say SHE wanted? What did she say she was willing to do to work on it? It sounds like the MC was not a genuine attempt but a check box to check off to say she "tried". Is that accurate? What DID/does she want from you?


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## Thor

MJJEAN said:


> What I am saying is that marriage IS a sexual relationship and it is both selfish and ridiculous to think that it's ok to deny your spouse long term and without their consent. Especially if you expect a lifelong marriage and monogamy.
> 
> You mentioned a sense of entitlement. Well, yes. But that is the entitlement we agree to when we marry. And, frankly, the spouse who denies their partner and then expects them to remain married and monogamous has a fairly sizable sense of entitlement.


From a historical standpoint, within my living memory even, marriage was the only setting within which sex was legitimate. This is both from religious doctrine and societal rules. 

A man or a woman could have every aspect of a marriage, except for sex, in any number of other relationships. One could live with a room mate. One could fall in love. One could go on dates. But the one thing reserved exclusively to marriage relationships was sex.

This isn't to say that humans haven't had pre-marital or extra-marital sex since time began. Just that from the standpoint of what a marriage is, the only thing which is different about the relationship in a marriage is that sex is officially allowed.

The primary purpose of marriage has been to have and raise children. Thus, sex is a central pillar of a marriage. If you don't want to have sex with your spouse, there is no reason to be _married_. You can be friends, room mates, and even have strong emotions without being _married_.

It is a rather entitled position to believe you can reap all the benefits of marriage but don't have obligations to your spouse. And if having sex with your spouse is not fun, there are major problems somewhere which need fixing.


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## Marduk

She's not asexual.


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## NobodySpecial

marduk said:


> She's not asexual.


That was what I was thinking, though she sounds like a froot loop. There is something going on between them that is killing her drive.


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## Buddy400

AVR1962 said:


> Your wife is finally sticking up for herself, living the life she wants without feeling she has to please you.


That's fine if she wants to live the life she wants and doesn't want to feel like she has to please her husband.

Living that life is called "getting divorced".

So, why's she fighting it?


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## GuyInColorado

I'll be divorced in a few months after almost 8 years of marriage. We haven't had sex or anything for the last 4.5 years. Got trapped and didn't get out when I should have early on. I'm glad I got out now and not 13 years later. It's amazing how many people are in horrible marriages and never get out. Life is short, be happy! Been dating an amazing woman for the last couple of months and I haven't been this happy in my entire 34 years! Amazing how happy you are when you are with someone you actually love and have intimacy with.


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## jb02157

I'm sorry to hear about this. The timing of the letter really puts an exclaimation point on the fact she doen't care about you anymore. A big life-time event like surgery when you probably should be able to rely on your wife's love for you to get you through is now only marred by a letter saying she wants to be who she is without having to care about your needs. Back surgery...meh...that's all on you pal. I wonder how she would feel about this if the shoe were on the other foot and you wrote her a letter proclaiming your selfishness on a day she should be able to depend on you. I could see myself write a letter saying...ok you're absolutely right, you should be you. You can start by paying your share of the mortgage, car payment, grocery bills etc etc. 

Her dribble about not her but a growing overall movement toward asexually is obviously bull****. If this is the way she truly feels you would be better off without her.


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## Tanner B

NobodySpecial said:


> I am not getting this. When she begged you to stay, what did she say SHE wanted? What did she say she was willing to do to work on it? It sounds like the MC was not a genuine attempt but a check box to check off to say she "tried". Is that accurate? What DID/does she want from you?


After moved out for three months the main thing she said was that our marriage was worth saving. We bought a book "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman and the plan was to read a chapter and then discussed it. We never really got very far.

A I mentioned I believe she has paranoid personality disorder and she is extremely suspicious of any type of therapy. The first time I almost left one of my conditions was that we go to MC. Clearly she only did this because I demanded it. It ended up not going well and she refuses to go back.


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## Tanner B

NobodySpecial said:


> That was what I was thinking, though she sounds like a froot loop. There is something going on between them that is killing her drive.


I think what you are saying is accurate but at the same time I am clueless to anything that I did to kill her drive. I think that I have been a caring and attentive husband. 

It was like eight year ago something went off the rails and there was a time that it could have been repaired but we were not able to do it on our own and never got the help we needed. At this point it is too late.

I have a meeting with a divorce attorney on Friday and I am planning to move forward with a separation. I actually feel more at peace than I have in a while.


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## farsidejunky

Tanner:

You need to thank your wife for her honesty. That letter will be the last, yet strongest catalyst for doing what should have been done years ago: ending your union.

Don't hate her, or blame her. It took both of you to make this dynamic.

End it, find out who you are alone, then work on finding a new partner.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Robbity

AVR1962 said:


> Robbity....speaking from my own experience. That is where I am in my life too!!!!It hurts, this is not what we want but when our spouse is out looking for other women and caught up in his own solitary interests we eventually get the message that they want is for is sex. I stayed for a long time, too long, for the sake of my daughter and not busting up the family but I saw my own health and happiness suffering. The more I suffered the more I wanted out. Like you, I did a last ditch effort for MC a couple years ago where he told our MC that he thought his interests in other women and having emotional affairs was "typical male behavior," I was so sickened to hear him say this. We had so much counseling and I had been telling him how I felt and when he said this it was like he had not heard a word I said and my feelings were swept under the rug. I did not want to be touched after that. A year went by that we had not had sex and rather than husband talking to be about this he went on an ignoring rampage to get my attention, he is a-typical passive- aggressive. I told him that in order for us to move forward there needed to be some serious counseling. he said he would read no more books, go to no more counseling and he demanded that go return to the "marital bed" and we be as man and wife. Blah! At that point I just wanted out. Thank goodness I was seeing a counselor and he told me not to be pressured to return to the marital bed and that I did not have to feel I needed to obligate with with sex.


Your ex and mine must be related 
Interesting turn of events with mine yesterday. He called into my shop (after not having seen or spoken to him since I asked him if he would go to MC 10 days ago) He said he really couldn't do the MC thing yet, maybe one day. He wants us to be friends and spend some time together though. He said he's not coping too well with the breakup.
I was really good - smiled and said "That's fine, I didn't really expect you would go. They would drag out all sorts of things."I told him that the reasons I left (bullying, belittling etc) were what contributed to the lack of sex, he thinks I left because we weren't having the sex that he wanted. I had lost that loving feeling towards him due to the way he treated me. His Father treated his Mother the same - learnt behaviour.
He said he would like us to stay friends. I don't see how that's possible but he can knock himself out trying 
Must say that I had the upper hand yesterday as I had turned a corner and had decided I could only help myself by getting on with my life. He seemed a bit surprised to see me so upbeat. He said he comes home from work and can't be bothered cooking for himself so just has cereal most nights. He's playing the victim card. Not working!


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## AVR1962

Robbity said:


> Your ex and mine must be related
> Interesting turn of events with mine yesterday. He called into my shop (after not having seen or spoken to him since I asked him if he would go to MC 10 days ago) He said he really couldn't do the MC thing yet, maybe one day. He wants us to be friends and spend some time together though. He said he's not coping too well with the breakup.
> I was really good - smiled and said "That's fine, I didn't really expect you would go. They would drag out all sorts of things."I told him that the reasons I left (bullying, belittling etc) were what contributed to the lack of sex, he thinks I left because we weren't having the sex that he wanted. I had lost that loving feeling towards him due to the way he treated me. His Father treated his Mother the same - learnt behaviour.
> He said he would like us to stay friends. I don't see how that's possible but he can knock himself out trying
> Must say that I had the upper hand yesterday as I had turned a corner and had decided I could only help myself by getting on with my life. He seemed a bit surprised to see me so upbeat. He said he comes home from work and can't be bothered cooking for himself so just has cereal most nights. He's playing the victim card. Not working!


Robbity, same reason I am leaving my husband...the way he treats me. He told our MC that he thought a man flirting with other women, creating time spent with them, emotional affairs was all typical male behavior. When I asked if he thought about sex with these ladies he had emotional affairs with he laughed and said, "Of course, I am a man," but he left his first wife because he "suspected" she was having an affair when all she was doing was going out with the ladies just like he'd been going out drinking with the guys. He never asked her, he just started playing investigator and had become suspicious. he then demanded that she be home one night at a certain and she did not so he locked her out and filed for divorce. 

He cheated on his girlfriend prior to his first marriage. Apologized to her by putting flowers and a card on the windshield of her card. She didn't accept the apology and broke up with him but he went on and on for years saying how she hurt him and he didn't feel he could ever trust another woman after his two experiences with women. Who created what here? He is always the victim!

My husband too is JUST like his dad. I saw my father-in-law ignore his wife all the time and my husband does the very same thing. He was forever playing solitaire and so does my husband, for hours. Very much into his own interests but not looking for for anyone else. When his wife had a stroke the family was trying rehabilitation, my father-in-law has a temper and a lack of patience. He wanted to be on the road traveling like they had been before the stroke. He also wasn't willing to do the work to help his wife so he put here in a nursing home where she lived her last 2 years of life while my father-in-law went on the road traveling, doing cruises and the like. He checked in with her every 3-4 months. I was so literally disgusted with this man. he had shown every male, including my husband, that it is okay to ditch your wife and do your own thing. Can you believe though the family supported him and said that he just could not bare to see her this way. Are you freakin serious???


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## DanielleBennett

She doesn't even know what asexual means I bet. Like seriously, it just looks like an excuse to not have sex. Also, her becoming religious is fine and all, but disrespecting your beliefs is a big no no. I would just proceed on with a divorce, sounds like she wants one anyway. Oh and by the way...50 is not old! I have no idea what she means by "50 year olds are expected to act like 20 year olds." Umm, no! I don't get it..sounds like excuses to me.


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## Tanner B

Just an update. About a week and half ago while I was watching television with the kids, my wife got on my laptop (apparently I did not lock it like I thought I did) and got in my e-mail. She saw some comments from my mother that she was not supposed to see and a recommendation on several divorce attorneys. 

Last week I met with the divorce attorney and found that it would be as difficult and costly as I feared. Her new job where she is making a lot more money than she was previously really changed things. 

I told her that I was planning to move out the next day. Believe it or not she was surprised when I told her. For the next few days she tried to talk me into staying but I told her it was too late. She even said that she would see a marriage counselor which she has refused to do for years. It has been a mixture of reminiscing about good times and making me feel guilty that I will be spending money renting an apartment that could go towards the kids college.

I did make plans to move into an apartment nearby and will be moving at the end of this week. We told the kids last Sunday which was definitely the hardest part and they were shocked. However, my daughter just got her driver's license and I will only be about ten minutes away so it will be pretty easy to see my kids on a regular basis. My thirteen year old son and I are going on vacation this summer where just the two us are traveling around to baseball games in several different cities.

My wife I think now realizes that I am not changing my mind this time. She told me this morning that she does understand men and how I can suddenly move on like this. It is so frustrating that she can say the things that she said in that letter and then turn around and try to make me feel guilty for leaving.


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## Thor

Tanner B said:


> It has been a mixture of reminiscing about good times and making me feel guilty that I will be spending money renting an apartment that could go towards the kids college.


With the current state of student financial aid, ironically your kids may be better off with you divorced with the expense of the apartment than together married in one house!


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## Thor

Tanner B said:


> However, my daughter just got her driver's license and I will only be about ten minutes away so it will be pretty easy to see my kids on a regular basis. My thirteen year old son and I are going on vacation this summer where just the two us are traveling around to baseball games in several different cities.


As my lawyer told me, teens have feet. And your daughter has wheels. Teens will go spend time with their parents and will choose where to be. This is good! Compared to, say, preschoolers who can be held hostage by one parent and used as pawns in the divorce and post-divorce.




Tanner B said:


> My wife I think now realizes that I am not changing my mind this time. She told me this morning that she does understand men and how I can suddenly move on like this. It is so frustrating that she can say the things that she said in that letter and then turn around and try to make me feel guilty for leaving.


You said that you have had discussions with her over a few years about the state of the marriage. She was well informed of how you were feeling about things. You did not "suddenly move on", you just finally made the decision after slowly detaching for years despite trying to improve the marriage. Her continual disinterest or inability to make a real effort was certainly a significant contributor, which she admits to by suddenly agreeing to MC.

Sorry it has come to this for you, but I think you'll ultimately all be happier.


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