# Confused



## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

My wife and I are going through a divorce/dissolution, which is her decision. Been married for almost 12 years. Together for almost 20 (high school sweethearts). Both in our mid 30's now and have one child. We have good jobs and a nice house. There has not been any cheating or abuse in our relationship. For the most part we got along great. We used to have fun together and have a lot in common. We didn't fight much but when we did they were big ones. I am from a loving but not perfect family and had a pretty good childhood. She is from a dysfunctional family and had to endure a lot of turmoil with her immediate familty throughout her childhood (and adulthood). Most of it I never knew about (no physical abuse).

I have been through pure hell for the last two years trying to save my marriage. My wife has serious issues with depression and anxiety, though she has never went to get treatment. She does not like to talk about things and keeps it all in, always has. She also is one of the most unforgiving resentful people I have ever met. If you cross her she is done with you. Ive seen her do it throughout our relationship with family and friends. I was just too stupid to realize it was brewing and could happen to me. I'm not trying to dog her but everyone she knows says the same thing, even her immediate family. She has many great characteristics too that's why I love her. I do not think she is a bad person at all. Those things I mentioned are in my opinion why we are where we are now. Now I will say that I am not perfect either. I know how to push her buttons and I have said some things I regret during arguements. I am not perfect by any means and have a lot of things I need to work on myself. 

A couple years ago we got into an argument and she just snapped. Got the "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore" and basically shunned by her. She said she didn't feel like a cherished her and appreciate her as a wife. She mentioned things I said or did years ago that I apologized for and she said she forgave me for. She also mentioned that we didn't go on vacation enough. She said that she loved me but that she resented me so much for everything she didn't think she wanted to be married anymore. She said on scale of 1 to 10 of resentment she was a 12 with me (10 being highest). She said she didn't know how to forgive me and wished she could. 

I should have seen all of it coming. About a year prior her immediate family basically fell apart and it was extremely painful, stressful and traumatic to her. I wont get into specifics but it was ugly and lasted for awhile. Its calmed down some but she still has to deal with it. She does not handle stress well at all and during that time she changed. I noticed a big change in her (others noticed too) and how depressed she was but she never wanted to talk about it. I asked her many times to get help through a therapist if she wouldn't talk to me, but she refused and it usually ended in an argument. During that time I basically just let her deal with things in her own way but it caused major issues between us. She wasn't affectionate any longer and was slowly shutting down. She went into self preservation mode. She also shut many people out of her life (close relatives). She would say many times "I feel like I am going to break". I didn't know what to do.

When she snapped (term she used) I was determined to save my marriage. I tried everything. You name it I tried it. Gifts, showed more appreciation, took over all household chores, self help, prayed, went to counceling, I even moved out for 3 months to give her space that she requested. We went to marriage counceling also. It lasted about 6 months and she wanted to stop because she said it was too stressful and not helping her. I had a solo session with the councelor at the end and the councelor told me that she felt sorry for me and that it wasn't my fault because my wife was dealing with issues far beyond me. She said she needs help. That made me feel somewhat ok with everything that has happened.

As time has went on I have ran out of patience. I finally told her if she wants out to contact a lawyer and realtor. She eventually did but says its because I told her too, what did I expect. So now our house is up for sale and our dissolution court date is set. At the lawyers office she stared at me most of the time with that look "I'm not so sure about this". I even asked her after the meeting and she just said this is all hard and cried her eyes out.

Anytime we talk about our relationship she cries her eyes out, even to this day. She says she still loves me and always will. She doesn't want to be with anyone else and has no desire to. Says she will never get remarried. She says she still finds me very attractive but she is still so mad at me that it took all this for me to realize what was going on. I know I shouldn't have asked her but I have asked if she thought she would ever want to reconcile down the road and she says she doesn't know. She has said the "if you love something let it go, if it comes back to you its yours, if not it never was" quote several times throughout this whole ordeal. She tells me I am not bad guy and that I am a great father. She wants me to be happy (but doesn't know how she would feel if I moved on), but she needs to fix herself and that we are too toxic for each other right now. I agree that we are too toxic right now. All this rejection I have dealt with is just too much for me to handle anymore. Its taken a toll on me more than I think. She just wants us to be good parents for our child, get along, and if she feels like she made a mistake she will tell me. Once she filed for the dissolution I told her there is no coming back from this. I got the "I thought you said you would be willing to get back together" and acted upset about it. 
At this point I don't know what I would do because this cant be normal, at least I hope not. Has anyone ever experienced something like this. Am I stupid for thinking about taking her back if she would want to (if she got herself fixed). I love my family more than anything. Ive made peace with what is going to happen and I have predicted everything she was going to do from when this all started. 

Note: Also just in case you are wondering no cheating has occurred. I thought that may be that case just because it would make more sense to me. I have checked extensively and that's not the case.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Disordered people often make lousy life partners.

When you say you've been trying to "save your marriage" - why not describe for us what that looks like?


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Well by just trying to prove to her by my actions and assuring her that I do appreciate her, love her, and want to stay married. I really didnt know what else to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Most people tell me I should have said ok and left her alone when this all started. I think they might have been right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It doesn't appear that there is much to do at this point. She may realize later or wake up and get help later. Who knows? 

I know someone that spend 6 years in the type of dilemma that you are going through. His wife was severely depressed and blamed him for everything....emphasized any past conflicts and focused on that things that he did wrong. We all do wrong...in my opinion he didn't do anything intentional or close to severe.....and it was her responsibility to communicate to him if she needed something more.

He spent the last year in another city (work)...giving her space. He remained faithful and true. He also visited just about every weekend. He fielded ugly texts, during the week, of the past; ugly text of how he didn't try hard enough. He begged for them to get marriage counseling..."it was to late" she said. She refused help on her own behalf...she did a few counseling session and didn't take medications consistently. She wanted to be the priority, to a point that his weekly skype session with his sisters were to much for her..... then he quit a night class and ended up moving back home. I am guessing nothing changed unless he changed it. 

She was sick and needed help. I felt very bad for him and wished he could live a decent, peaceful life. He was the only person that could decide on that.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

My only option now is to leave her alone and see what happens later on. I hope she gets help. She says she is going to but hasnt scheduled anything. Ive asked her when she will and she just says "when i call". Admits she needs help though. I still have that gut feeling she is going to want to reconcile one day, i know her too well. Ticks me off that this has to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Km1077 said:


> She also is one of the most unforgiving resentful people I have ever met. If you cross her she is done with you. Ive seen her do it throughout our relationship with family and friends.


KM, this behavior you describe is called "black-white thinking." We all are prone to do it whenever we are extremely angry or experience other very intense feelings. What you are describing, however, goes far beyond the B-W thinking that most adults do. You are describing a woman who does it with all family and friends -- i.e., apparently does it with anyone who draws close to her.

People who rely that heavily on B-W thinking usually categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., with me) or "all bad" (i.e., against me). And they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This process of recategorizing a person is called "splitting" because, when anger is felt toward that person, all the conflicting feelings (e.g, love) are "split off," putting them entirely out of reach of the conscious mind. The person will be "split black" or "split white." 

This behavior typically occurs because, due to a dysfunctional upbringing, the individual never had an opportunity to integrate the good and bad aspects of her own personality during early childhood. This means she never was able to think of herself as _"an essentially good girl who occasionally exhibits bad behavior."_ Instead, she thinks of herself as "all good" or "all bad." 

If this is true of your W, she also will categorize other people that way -- in addition to viewing herself that way. The result is that she will be unable to tolerate strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, or other grey areas in her interpersonal relationships. Those ambiguities would be extremely uncomfortable for her to deal with. 

If this is occurring with her, it would be evident in her not having any close long-term friends (unless the person lives a long distance away). The reason is that, when one of her fears is accidentally triggered by a friend or family member, she will split that person black and cut him off, because he would be perceived as being "all bad." This B-W thinking also would have been evident -- throughout your 12-year marriage -- in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." or "You ALWAYS...."



> My wife has serious issues with depression and anxiety, though she has never went to get treatment.


KM, an important issue is whether your W's dysfunctional behaviors are due to her depression and anxiety -- or, rather, whether all those problems are attributable to strong traits of a personality disorder (PD) she has had since childhood.

Yet, if the latter is the case and she exhibits strong PD traits, they would have been persistent -- e.g., showing up every 6 to 8 weeks if not more frequently. A woman exhibiting _persistent_ moderate to strong PD traits would not be wonderful for 10 years and then, during the last 2 years of your 12-year marriage, start exhibiting such traits.

It therefore would be very helpful if you would tell us what dysfunctional behaviors you were seeing during those first 10 years of your marriage. For example, what do you mean when you say _"We didn't fight much but when we did they were big ones"?_ What were the "big ones" like? 

Was there lots of yelling or did she punish you, instead, with icy withdrawal, cold silence, and passive aggressive comments? Similarly, it would be helpful to know what you mean when saying _"She does not handle stress well at all."_ What was her behavior like for those first 10 years when she could not handle stress well?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can't fix this. The big thing you need to ask yourself is this life worth living with her?????

IMO I'd move on an prepare a life without her. If it works out down the road great but chances are this won't change so you won't be in limbo hell forever.

The best thing you can do is go as dark as possible and have a life.

Keeping in contact is the worst thing you can do here. Maybe she's appreciate what she doesn't have anymore but if she doesn't you'll definitely get past this much quicker.

Read up on the 180


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You can't fix this. The big thing you need to ask yourself is this life worth living with her?????
> 
> IMO I'd move on an prepare a life without her. If it works out down the road great but chances are this won't change so you won't be in limbo hell forever.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Your right. Very tough though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> Thanks. Your right. Very tough though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Extremely but you know what you have to do. However, if you can stay away it may be just what's needed. Absence may make the heart grow fonder but you need to put that aside for now and prepare yourself.

I feel for you and hope it turns out for the best but assume there's no hope so you won't be dissapointed.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Uptown said:


> KM, this behavior you describe is called "black-white thinking." We all are prone to do it whenever we are extremely angry or experience other very intense feelings. What you are describing, however, goes far beyond the B-W thinking that most adults do. You are describing a woman who does it with all family and friends -- i.e., apparently does it with anyone who draws close to her.
> 
> People who rely that heavily on B-W thinking usually categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., with me) or "all bad" (i.e., against me). And they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This process of recategorizing a person is called "splitting" because, when anger is felt toward that person, all the conflicting feelings (e.g, love) are "split off," putting them entirely out of reach of the conscious mind. The person will be "split black" or "split white."
> 
> ...


She has had the same way of dealing with things since Ive known her but not to the extent she does now. Never any yelling just the victim all the time. She never contributes to any conflict in her mind. When i say she doesnt handle stress well I mean anything that doesnt go as planned or something that she may have messed up on. She is never wrong. She has never said "i was wrong, im sorry" its always something i have done. When i say big fights i dont mean violence or anything. I would just get to the end of my rope and say what i was thinking, Which was always wrong and just me being mean according to her. Then i would pay for it. And hear about it repeatedly over the years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Km1077 said:


> She has had the same way of dealing with things since Ive known her but not to the extent she does now. Never any yelling just the victim all the time.... She is never wrong. She has never said "i was wrong, im sorry" its always something i have done. When i say big fights i dont mean violence or anything.


KM, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, controlling behavior, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. After living with a woman for 12 years, you should find these behaviors easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



> She is from a dysfunctional family and had to endure a lot of turmoil with her immediate familty throughout her childhood (and adulthood)


If she has exhibited moderate to strong BPD traits throughout your marriage, that family background is not surprising. A recent large-scale study found that 70% of BPDers report that they had been treated abusively or abandoned in childhood.



> My wife has serious issues with depression and anxiety.


Suffering from those disorders does not rule out her also having strong and persistent BPD traits. The vast majority of BPDers suffer from such co-occurring "clinical disorders." About 81% of female BPDers suffer from an anxiety disorder, 80% suffer from a mood disorder, and 36% suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. 



> I don't know what I would do because this cant be normal, at least I hope not.


What I would do, KM, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your child have been dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most seem to apply.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back if she refuses to work hard in a treatment program -- or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, KM.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

You said you ruled out an affair. How did you do that?


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

ThreeStrikes said:


> You said you ruled out an affair. How did you do that?



Let's just say I've checked thoroughly and I've done it for awhile. Also her behavior has never changed. She is never late getting home from work. Never any surprise late meetings. No change in her looks or style. No unusual money spending. Doesn't go out with friends, just wants to always be with our child and always is. If she does go anywhere it's with our child. All she does is watch tv. Never is on her phone secretly texting or on mysterious phone calls. Most of the time her cell is sitting in another room unprotected. I've checked her phone, Facebook, email, everything I could think of and nothing. I still wonder sometimes but there isn't anything I've ever found. I've flat out asked her in as nice a way as I could "is there someone else, I won't be mad". She says I've never done anything like that and never would as she stares at me directly in the eyes. I can tell when she is telling a lie and I believe her. As long as this has all went she would have told me by now or I would have found out something. I guess there is always a chance but I don't think this is the case.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Uptown said:


> KM, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, controlling behavior, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.
> 
> I caution that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.
> 
> ...


Thank you. All this is very appreciated. Wish I would have found this a long time ago.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It might be that since she comes from a dysfunctional childhood, she has a hard time being around your family and you even, who are not dysfunctional. Chaos and dysfunction might be what she finds 'normal,' and she has been out of sorts with you for a while? That could be. Just guessing. Don't be surprised though if down the road, she ends up in a relationship with a very dysfunctional, depressed guy like herself, because that will feel normal for her. You tried to create a new normal for her, but until she comes to grips with all of this, she will seek dysfunction out as normal. Going through a divorce probably creates chaos for her, and sadly...that is normal for her. I hope you find peace and happiness though, someday. Sorry you've been through a tough time. ((hugs))


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Km1077 said:


> Well by just trying to prove to her by my actions and assuring her that I do appreciate her, love her, and want to stay married. I really didnt know what else to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can do that with my dog but I still don't let him shyt in the house or get in the trash...and when he does there are consequences.

My point is you have no boundaries....your old lady goes through this marriage like its all her and she has no chores in working on maintaining a healthy marriage.

I guess she figures you aren't going anywere so treating you like shyt really doesn't have any consequences. Not doing the work to fix her own issues really doesn't need to be done cuz you will love her no matter what.

Chicks like confident guys so even though your action will show her love her inaction will show her indifference and she needs to be told this. She needs to know when boundaries are crossed there will be consequences.

There is no reason to continue to get disrespected and yet reward her for it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Don't let fear of the unknown guide you here. Anything would be an Improvement over this.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Km1077 said:


> Wish I would have found this a long time ago.


KM, if your W exhibits most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level, you should find that most of the 18 warning signs in my list sound very familiar. 



> She has many great characteristics too that's why I love her. I do not think she is a bad person at all.


BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) generally are NOT bad people. Like young children, their problem is not being _bad_ but, rather, being emotionally _unstable_. Moreover, they typically exhibit the warmth and purity of expressions that otherwise is only seen in children. This usually makes them very easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.



> She does not like to talk about things and keeps it all in, always has.... *Never any yelling* just the victim all the time.


I would guess that nearly 95% of BPDers are "yellers" because they "act out," i.e., turn their anger outward onto their partners. A very small share of them, however, usually (but not always) will turn their anger inward -- thereby "acting in." Not surprisingly, these BPDers are usually called "_quiet borderlines_" or "_waif borderlines_" because they usually rely on icy withdrawal, cold withdrawal, and passive-aggressive remarks to punish their loved ones -- and they are convinced that they are poor little victims, always "The Victim."

Because they are so greatly outnumbered by the "acting out" BPDers who yell and scream, it can be difficult to find online information about these quiet folks. I therefore will mention two good articles I have found. You might find them insightful. One is A.J. Mahari's blog article at The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment. The second is Shari Schreiber's blog article at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> Well by just trying to prove to her by my actions and assuring her that I do appreciate her, love her, and want to stay married. I really didnt know what else to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would you say you're trying to "convince her" that staying with you is the "right thing to do"?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

the guy said:


> I can do that with my dog but I still don't let him shyt in the house or get in the trash...and when he does there are consequences.
> 
> My point is you have no boundaries....your old lady goes through this marriage like its all her and she has no chores in working on maintaining a healthy marriage.
> 
> ...


In fact, everytime you initiate sex with one of these, it's an emotional thank you for the abuse they dish out.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Would you say you're trying to "convince her" that staying with you is the "right thing to do"?


Now that I think about it all my actions appear that way.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

the guy said:


> I can do that with my dog but I still don't let him shyt in the house or get in the trash...and when he does there are consequences.
> 
> My point is you have no boundaries....your old lady goes through this marriage like its all her and she has no chores in working on maintaining a healthy marriage.
> 
> ...


Your right. My approach now is just to pretend I don't really care. I am tired of it all.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She says that you are a great father. How many kids? Ages? Who is getting custody?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> Now that I think about it all my actions appear that way.


So, if you're "successful" at convincing her - anything that goes wrong in the future is "your fault" because you convinced her.

Don't place such low value on yourself.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> She says that you are a great father. How many kids? Ages? Who is getting custody?


One child, 9yrs old, she gets primary custody. She is a great mother puts our child first always, maybe a little too much. She tells me its because she felt abandoned as a child due to how disfunctional her parents were.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> So, if you're "successful" at convincing her - anything that goes wrong in the future is "your fault" because you convinced her.
> 
> Don't place such low value on yourself.


Im done trying to convince her. Its all backfired on me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> Im done trying to convince her. Its all backfired on me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It backfires on all of us.

Be one of those that learns from it.

And, make no mistake about it. Her poison will be spread to the next generation. You can count on it.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> It backfires on all of us.
> 
> Be one of those that learns from it.
> 
> ...


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > It backfires on all of us.
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Km1077 said:


> One child, 9yrs old, she gets primary custody. She is a great mother puts our child first always, maybe a little too much. She tells me its because she felt abandoned as a child due to how disfunctional her parents were.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AND YET SHE CONTINUES THE CYCLE!!!!

Sorry for shouting but do you see how phucked up this post is?

Your kid is going to learn how to love their spouse the same way you guys "love" each other!

Your old lady is doing a great phucking job as a mother....lets continue the cycle! [sarcasm]

Can she for one second and step back and see she is her mom and dad!

I'm going to take a wild guess here but your kid is going to smile more watching mom and dad chasing each other around playing grab @ss then sitting apart in different rooms.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

opuss said:


> Now you just calm down.


OK
I'm calm...but it just pisses me off when spouses get phucked over time and again cuz the other spouse is such a "good parent" but there is more to it....the family unit as a whole is what matters.

I mean COME ON ....be a great parent means showing your kid a healthy relationship....be an example!

There is so much more to just playing catch or kicking a soccer ball!


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

the guy said:


> AND YET SHE CONTINUES THE CYCLE!!!!
> 
> Sorry for shouting but do you see how phucked up this post is?
> 
> ...


The disordered are the least self-aware on earth.

They know that "something" is wrong. But, they're bound and determined to run from it, blameshift it, and bull**** excuse it away.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

the guy said:


> AND YET SHE CONTINUES THE CYCLE!!!!
> 
> Sorry for shouting but do you see how phucked up this post is?
> 
> ...


I agree as far as that goes. She has no clue the long term effect its going to cause our child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> The disordered are the least self-aware on earth.
> 
> They know that "something" is wrong. But, they're bound and determined to run from it, blameshift it, and bull**** excuse it away.


She acknowledges something is wrong but says she cant "Trust" me with her heart. Her way of dealing with difficult situations is to shut you out, write you off, and not discuss it with anyone. Most of her family and friends have had no idea what has been going on. In my opinion its because she know she is being unrealistic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

the guy said:


> OK
> I'm calm...but it just pisses me off when spouses get phucked over time and again cuz the other spouse is such a "good parent" but there is more to it....the family unit as a whole is what matters.
> 
> I mean COME ON ....be a great parent means showing your kid a healthy relationship....be an example!
> ...


Totally agree. Apparently keeping our fAmily together is more important to me. She will miss it once its gone. But in the meantime ill have to suffer by only seeing my kid two days a week instead of every day and paying child support (which will be enough for a mortgage payment).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> She acknowledges something is wrong but says she cant "Trust" me with her heart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See my comment about bull**** excuses.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Km1077 said:


> Totally agree. Apparently keeping our fAmily together is more important to me. She will miss it once its gone. But in the meantime ill have to suffer by only seeing my kid two days a week instead of every day and paying child support (which will be enough for a mortgage payment).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are you getting to see your children only 2 days a week? Is that something you agreed upon or based on work/school schedules?


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## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

Km1077 said:


> Thank you. All this is very appreciated. Wish I would have found this a long time ago.


Yea ,,,,, a lot of us have had that same feeling.


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## Km1077 (Feb 15, 2016)

Corpuswife said:


> Why are you getting to see your children only 2 days a week? Is that something you agreed upon or based on work/school schedules?


Work schedule. I have non typical work hours and days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@Uptown, would it be helpful for Km to learn and use gray rocking ?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JohnA said:


> @*Uptown*, would it be helpful for Km to learn and use gray rocking?


Good idea, @*JohnA*. Please tell him about it. Even after the divorce, KM and his STBXW will be co-parenting their 9-year-old child. If the STBXW is a BPDer, "gray rocking" may help reduce the level of verbal abuse KM has to put up with on the days they exchange the child.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@Uptown read something about it on @sixty-eight thread. From what I read it I found it instinctive. I thought you might have some insight into the subject and some links.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JohnA said:


> @*Uptown* read something about it on @*sixty-eight* thread.


Sorry, John, I mistakenly thought you were intending to describe it. Yes, Sixty-Eight describes it in her *12/2/15 post*. For folks having to co-parent with untreated BPDers, the usual advice for minimizing the inevitable conflicts is to behave very very boring. The idea is to avoid contributing to the drama that BPDers need to "validate" their false self image of being "The Victim." 

In an online article posted in 2012, a blogger called "Skylar" decided to coin a phrase (i.e., "The Gray Rock Method") for this well-known approach. She advocates it as one way of warding off the attacks of an abuser. It is particularly effective when a victim cannot avoid contact with the abuser because they both share custody of children. The idea is to be so boring that nothing you say will be memorable and thus won't feed the attention needs of a psychopath or the validation needs of a narcissist or BPDer. 

Toward that end, you become a "gray rock." You are so bland that you exhibit an emotionless response (e.g., "hmm, I guess that gives me something interesting to think about") when an abuser jabs. Additional examples of this approach are provided in *Skylar's blog article*.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

The Gray Rock Method of Dealing With Psychopaths ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lN4Waicg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Gcx0o68vE

i haven't read the thread, i just saw the mention and thought i'd throw in some gray rock resources : ) .

ETA: this method is advised for co-parenting with any of the cluster B disorders or your garden variety high conflict personalities.




JohnA said:


> @Uptown read something about it on @sixty-eight thread. From what I read it I found it instinctive. I thought you might have some insight into the subject and some links.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

It's also an effective method for dealing with employees who exhibit these traits.

The emotional vampires actually "feed" off the reaction of others. That's why the 24/7 effort to agitate and stir the pot.

So many spouses, bosses, and other inexperienced folk attempt to "explain" why their position is reasonable.

LOL

Remember folks, talk less, do more.


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