# Confused - Needs Clarity!



## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Background
We are 39 and 37 with almost 5 yrs. old DD. I moved to the US for grad studies in 2003 and got married in 2011. My W moved after the marriage. I have an old post http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...-my-wifes-split-personality-vs-my-family.html. That post is a lot about how we cannot communicate. She might have BPD but I am not a doctor. She is great until she is angry. Her anger is like a storm. 

I came to realization 3 years back. Suck it or leave it. I choose to suck it up. Two reasons - i) I get panic attacks just thinking about divorcing my W. Too weak - I know! ii) I know my W cannot take care of my DD. But she is not as crazy that I can just take away my DD. I also do not want my DD to separate from her M. I want my D to be able to see us both although in two houses.

Now
I am in a marriage where I am not able to maintain the connection/communication with my family/friends. She does not allow to take my DD to meet my family in my home country. Every time I raise this topic - it brings a storm. She has a million reasons why not. I argued, requested, fought to take my DD. But in vain. We went back in Dec 2015. She with DD to her place - I flew to mine. While coming I picked them up and came back to the states.

Though, I bought my parents and brother to States to meet DD in Summer 2016. Kept them in a separate apartment. 

Since then we have not gone back.

In short, my DD has never gone to see my extended family. I cannot bring my family to visit me like other people do. I cannot go to my home country without much drama. This brings to realization - I should just get done with it. I am just fooling myself. Sucking up sucks!

So
But the above two reasons still haunts me. I still get panic attacks thinking about divorce. I have restarted the counseling. I am going to see my doctor in 2 weeks. I will ask for some anti-depressant. I hear that anti-depressant can affect my ability to drive or normal work or I may get addicted (one of the fears I never took it). Can anyone share his/her experiences? my doctor once prescribed me propranolol, which calms the nerve. it's not an antidepressant - I took it once but I think I should start taking it now.

One other thing I wanted to share is my 5 yrs. old DD. She is so sensitive. Once we had an argument. DD tried to make peace between us for next 2 hours. Next morning she wakes up and asks her M - Mom, do you love daddy, right? She was visibly distraught seeing us unhappy. This new equation in my situation adversely affects my panic attacks. I feel like I am going to destroy two lives - One of them I I love the most.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Right now you need to be in the planing stages. If you can just focus on the planning and preparting, and not the acutal leaving, it should help to keep you calm.

Intelectually you know that you cannot stay in this situation. So write up a to-do list, a plan and just focus on the task(s) you need to do today and tomorrow.

The first step here is to get yourself stronger mentally/emotionally. Get counseling and see a doc about meds to get you through this.

Go see a lawyer and find out what you need to start doing to prepare for a divorce.

On your to-do list add making copies of all important papers and putting them in a safe place.

Does your wife have a job outside the home? If not you might want to suggest to her that she get one. 

About your daughter. While a divorce might be hard on her, she will adjust. Right now she lives in a crazy situation 100% of the time. You can most likely get 50% custody. So you will be able to provide a not-so-crazy home for her 50% of the time. And you can develop a relationship with her that helps her learn how to deal with her mother's problems.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife have a job outside the home? If not you might want to suggest to her that she get one.


No, she is totally dependent on me. She has been looking for job though. She may get a job whihc will make her move to 4 hours drive away. The plan is that she will come over the weekend. Baby stays with me. Bteween, she does not drive.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Today is the day I have asked my lawyer to serve.

This decision came after it was way clear to me that she would not let me take my DD to visit my side of the family. This was the last thing i was holding to - I wanted active engagement of my family in my DD's life. I could sulk everything else but this is important.

I am going through so much guilt. They can serve any time in next 3 hours. my heart is almost exploding and head spinning.

She does not know anything about it. it will be a news.

There is more to the story. She was about to move to the other state for a job (for short terms). my 5 yr old DD starting KG in 2 weeks. I am full of guilt. But i cannot just take constant whipping - in one breadth from "I love you" to "bastard". This happened when I asked how about me and DD go for a short trip to my home country while you are away for the job (this triggered emotional explosion to the extent that any new text on phone would make my heart pumping fast). Yes, this is important to me that my DD comes with me to see my extended family - she has never been to my family.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

I’m so sorry for you.
Sounds like you struggled with this decision, so therefore, it is probably the right one.

I wish you nothing but luck and happiness.

Stay strong


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Kamstel said:


> I’m so sorry for you.
> Sounds like you struggled with this decision, so therefore, it is probably the right one.
> 
> I wish you nothing but luck and happiness.
> ...


Thank you.

Paper is served. I have been getting constant texts/calls. I plan not to respond on phone. It will end up too much crying from the other side - which would make me weak. or, it will be volcano waiting to erupt. I only sent a short email. 

I am not sure how to feel. I hope a few days pass without much emotional turmoil.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Shameless, thanks so much for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you are doing. To me, it sounds like you're doing well -- i.e., you're accomplishing in 7 years what took me 15 years to do.

As you may recall, we've been discussing the possibility of BPD since Sept 2013. If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits) as you've suspected, your divorce likely will get very nasty very quickly. And, as you already recognize, the whole process is going to make you feel very guilty about everything. 

If your W is a BPDer, you are essentially in a parent/child relationship with her and you are going to feel like you're walking away from a sick young child who -- despite her frequent rages and temper tantrums -- sorely loves you and needs you. Yet, as long as you remain with a BPDer, you will continue to trigger her fears (abandonment and engulfment) and your enabling behavior will destroy her opportunities to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them. 

Remember, the strong guilt is just a feeling. You don't have to believe it because, as a mature adult, you are able to intellectually challenge it and reject it. But, of course, it will still hang around for many months to come.

I therefore suggest you read the book, _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. _It was written by the same author who wrote _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, which you read about 5 years ago.

Again, I strongly recommend you carry a VAR to record your W's outbursts when you two get together to exchange the kids or to sign paperwork. Also, check with your attorney about whether your State allows you to use one-party recordings in court. 

Such evidence may be needed in the custody battle or in the event she tries to get you arrested on a bogus charge, as my exW did to me. I was in jail 3 days before I had an opportunity to go before the judge in arraignment.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks Uptown! Yes, its constant fight in my mind between “guilt” and “what I want”. I pray to be strong. One of my friends came and said that she agrees that I can take my DD to see my family. But I know the issue is much bigger.

I have asked her that I will come and pick my DD this evening for couple of hours. I am not sure how that would go. I hope i do not get into the chaos of crying/anger.





Uptown said:


> Shameless, thanks so much for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you are doing. To me, it sounds like you're doing well -- i.e., you're accomplishing in 7 years what took me 15 years to do.
> 
> As you may recall, we've been discussing the possibility of BPD since Sept 2013. If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits) as you've suspected, your divorce likely will get very nasty very quickly. And, as you already recognize, the whole process is going to make you feel very guilty about everything.
> 
> ...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Shameless, if she is a pwBPD, you likely will have to have a formal agreement on the sharing of custody and pickup/dropoff practices. Speak with your lawyer about the conditions. I strongly recommend you insist that, when it is your turn for custody, your exW bring your DD to you and then you return your DD by driving to her home when it is your exW's turn. Of course, you could also agree to a drop off at a meet point that is midway between your homes.

This "drop off" arrangement usually is far better than you showing up at your exW's home to pick up your DD. That makes your DD feel like you are the one who is showing up to interrupt her life and steal her away from her home. With the drop off arrangement, however, it is clear to DD that your exW is taking her to you (i.e., you are not the one taking her away from that other home).

This drop off arrangement will be particularly valuable when your exW starts making DD reluctant to leave home because the exW is claiming she will be missing out on a party, friends dropping by, or a favorite movie. What then happens is that DD is throwing a fit when you are trying to "remove her from her own home" because the exW is trying to turn her against you. This problem can be greatly reduced by using the drop off arrangement instead.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks Uptown! What does "pw" stands in pwBPD? 

My case is very different so I am not sure yet how it would go. But yes, I want an exact guidelines.

For now, surprisingly I have not yet seen her angry since she is served. Emotional turmoil – yes! she has cried many times and has offered things like I can take my DD to meet my parents. But I do not trust the words. I do not want a Band-Aid.

In short, she went to the other state yesterday (other side of the country) for job. She was planning to take DD with her. One of common friends was trying to mediate between us. She agreed to leave DD with me while she goes away. She asked 2 months extension to respond to divorce petition (in our state, the spouse has to respond within 30 days from the date of serve). I agreed but have yet to check with my lawyer if it is possible. I am okay extending considering too many change is taking place in her life (leaving DD, starting first real job, moving to the other state).

It has been difficult for DD. She is more attached with her mother. 
Affecting my daughter the least - is my main focus right-now. This comes in the way of totally disconnecting w my W. I ended up driving her to the airport. Note, she got no family in this country- no close friends who can come to support her like family.

I am thinking of starting a thread in "Going through Divorce" section to get inputs form people who were/are in my situation.




Uptown said:


> Shameless, if she is a pwBPD, you likely will have to have a formal agreement on the sharing of custody and pickup/dropoff practices. Speak with your lawyer about the conditions. I strongly recommend you insist that, when it is your turn for custody, your exW bring your DD to you and then you return your DD by driving to her home when it is your exW's turn. Of course, you could also agree to a drop off at a meet point that is midway between your homes.
> 
> This "drop off" arrangement usually is far better than you showing up at your exW's home to pick up your DD. That makes your DD feel like you are the one who is showing up to interrupt her life and steal her away from her home. With the drop off arrangement, however, it is clear to DD that your exW is taking her to you (i.e., you are not the one taking her away from that other home).
> 
> This drop off arrangement will be particularly valuable when your exW starts making DD reluctant to leave home because the exW is claiming she will be missing out on a party, friends dropping by, or a favorite movie. What then happens is that DD is throwing a fit when you are trying to "remove her from her own home" because the exW is trying to turn her against you. This problem can be greatly reduced by using the drop off arrangement instead.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

ShameLessLover said:


> Thanks Uptown! What does "pw" stands in pwBPD?
> 
> My case is very different so I am not sure yet how it would go. But yes, I want an exact guidelines.
> 
> ...


She most likely has no intentions of actually allowing your child to travel with you to your families. It's not a bandaid, she's just trying to appease you for the moment to get you to stop divorce. 

I I highly suggest you don't give her extra time, it will only work against you. If she has a pd you playing with a loaded gun. You need this to go quick and swiftly, she's going to drag her heels and make you endure a long fight. The longer it goes generally the worse it'll be for you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

ShameLessLover said:


> What does "pw" stands in pwBPD?


Shameless, "pw" stands for "person with." Sorry, I normally use "BPDer" on this forum and only use "pwBPD" on another forum that prefers that term.

I share Honcho's concern that the 2-month delay of the divorce filing may work to your disadvantage. Be sure to check with your attorney as to whether such an extension would mean that your STBXW has more ability to legally take your DD out of state. At issue is whether she is able to do it with the extension but not without the extension. 

Also, do you have her permission to take DD to your home country _in writing_? I ask because you likely cannot get through customs without such proof that the other parent agrees to your DD making the trip.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks Uptown/Honcho! I met my attorney and extended it for 30 more days. Attorney said no concern – it may work in my advantage since I have been taking care of DD by myself (although I have no intention of making her less eligible for child custody).

I do not plan to go outside the country as yet (for now). Attorney said that it would be okay if I want to travel. I may want to carry DD’s DOB certificate. 

I am very uncomfortable with her constant crying on phone, apologizing, ready to patch things up. I hope not get weak in this time. Any pointers will be helpful.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ShameLessLover said:


> Thanks Uptown/Honcho! I met my attorney and extended it for 30 more days. Attorney said no concern – it may work in my advantage since I have been taking care of DD by myself (although I have no intention of making her less eligible for child custody).
> 
> I do not plan to go outside the country as yet (for now). Attorney said that it would be okay if I want to travel. I may want to carry DD’s DOB certificate.
> 
> I am very uncomfortable with her constant crying on phone, apologizing, ready to patch things up. I hope not get weak in this time. Any pointers will be helpful.


Either don't answer her calls or tell her that you will only talk to her if its about the child, and if she starts on anything else you will end the call. Or limit all contact to emails or texts.


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Either don't answer her calls or tell her that you will only talk to her if its about the child, and if she starts on anything else you will end the call. Or limit all contact to emails or texts.


I am trying my best just to do that. Last time when she was leaving for airport, she almost ran to hug me w/teary eye.


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