# Expose the affair?



## Garm

My wife is or was having an affair. I don't know if it was physical. She is trying to reconcile. She hand wrote a no contact letter that I mailed. She says she no longer has email contact. I have been trying to monitor her email the past couple of days. She says she still thinks about the other man, but is trying to get over it. 
I am having trouble believing that the affair ended since she loves this other guy. 
I'm trying to decide if I should contact her side of the family to expose the affair. We are going on a vacation with her parents and sister's family in 4 weeks. We are staying in a house together with them and our 2 toddlers. I think it would make the vacation very awkward and uncomfortable if I told these people about the affair. If she is still contacting the other man, I think I need help to get her to stop. I can't confirm she is still in contact yet. It seems like she would not be able to stop cold turkey like she says she's doing.
I need some advice.


----------



## Shaggy

1. Demand that she gives you full transparency to all her communications, and she is to notify you if she has any contact with him

2. You need to set strict boundaries with her, NC means NC, transparency means full transparency.

3. Demand she take a polygraph on if the affair really has ended and if it was physical.


----------



## Vanguard

You should always expose the affair. You're essentially asking whether or not you should expel necrotic cells from your body. The answer is invariably "yes." 

But make sure you can expose it without fail. With irrefutable substance. Always get the right tools when you're trying to get rid of pus.


----------



## warlock07

Who was the guy she had the affair with ?

Why did it end ? How did you find out ?


----------



## Garm

She told me that she will tell me when the other man tries to contact her. It's been 2 weeks since D-Day and she says there has been no contact, and I haven't found any more evidence. I really don't want to ruin our vacation by telling her family.


----------



## Garm

I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man. Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.
She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago. We reconciled and had 2 children together. She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.
I know I can't believe anything she says at this point. The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.


----------



## MattMatt

I don't know. Sometimes exposing an affair has benefits, sometimes not. Speaking on a personal point in my case it would not have worked and might have been counterproductive. But in some cases it does help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Doyle

Do you have a keylogger or any thing in place to verify she's telling you the truth.


----------



## Shaggy

Is the OM married or with a gf?

You are relying too heavily on her being honest and faithful, the thing is you know she has a history of lying and being unfaithful. So should rethink putting that trust into her.


----------



## sandc

Garm said:


> She told me that she will tell me when the other man tries to contact her. It's been 2 weeks since D-Day and she says there has been no contact, and I haven't found any more evidence. I really don't want to ruin our vacation by telling her family.


And she's been so up front and honest about everything else right?

You CANNOT rely on her to be honest with you about anything. She has been living a lie. This affair started up again because it wasn't properly dealt with last time. You need to nuke it this time. Expose to everyone. Her family, your family, his family, EVERYONE.

Put a keylogger on your computer, don't rely on her to tell you he has contacted her.

And save your money on the polygraph. If they were having a physical affair in the past, and she just "ran into him" in the neighborhood, then that means they had sex. It's cheater code speak.


----------



## jim123

He has gone back to him and is debating leaving you. She is not going to let him go. You will always b e plan B, He will show up again when the time is right.

She learned nothing from the first time. It is only a matter of time. File D and ask for custody.


----------



## ody360

I can understand second chances, but 3rd and forth chances thats were i will draw the line. Why did she not learn the leaso the first time. Who knows but if your giving her a 2nd chance you need to make the punishment hard or she will probably do it again. But honestly she should of learned from the first time, she knows what it did to you and she decided to do it again without any regard to you or you kids.. 

In my situation i didnt expose reason i didnt was cause i new it would of done more harm then good, but you can bet your sweet butt if it happens again she will be exposed and ill tell about the 1st affair as well then go and file for a D. No way you can really love someone if your willing yo do it twice... Sorry man i know you love her but she is only kidding herself and you if she feels the same for you..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingToRecover

Garm said:


> I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man. Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.
> She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago. We reconciled and had 2 children together. She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.
> I know I can't believe anything she says at this point. *The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.*


I have three kids and their father, my husband/WS, is of mixed race (Caucasian/Asian); dark skin and dark brown hair. I (the BS) am white with a very pale complexion with dark blond hair. WS is of average height (5'10") and I am short (5'0"). Our oldest looks like me but with her dad's features, such as darker skin and hair. She is shorter like me. Our middle kid looks just like his dad but is way taller than both of us (6'4"). Our youngest looks like his dad and is his height but with my features (blond hair, paler skin). 

Not one of our kids looks too much alike and from an outsider's perspective, I would imagine it only appears as though our middle kid is of mixed race when it is, in fact, all three of them this applies to. My daughter looks like a "tans well" version of me but not necessarily of another race. I have always been faithful and there's no chance someone else fathered any of them. 

Not trying to be a jerk but to be sure - given your wife's history with the OM - I'd DNA test your kids anyway. Genetics are a funny thing.


----------



## bryanp

You gave her an act of forgiveness 4 years ago when she had an affair with this OM and betrayed your marriage and relationship. She meets him in the neighborhood and can't stop herself and continues to start up the affair again? This is ridiculous and so humiliating to you. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

I would be surprised if she simply has not taken it underground. I think it would be a good idea for you to have your children tested for paternity since you really cannot believe anything a cheater says.

I would suggest the following:
1. Get tested for STD's again.
2. Have your children tested for paternity.
3. See a lawyer to understand your options.

She clearly has absolutely no respect for you and your marriage whatsoever. If the roles were reversed would she have been so accepting and forgiving as you continue to be? She continues to do this because there are no consequences to her actions. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


----------



## Garm

The other man is married with 2 teenage kids. His wife got a voicemail from me and she also got the no contact letter we sent. I'm hoping she will help stop this.


----------



## snap

You dealt with it the last time the same way you're dealing with it now. You know how it worked. It's naive to expect it to work any differently this time.


----------



## bryanp

The famous definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. It seems that you are experiencing this. Ask yourself why a wife would respect a husband who keeps forgiving her for having sex with the same over and over again behind your back? 

I think she continued to do this because she knew down deep that you would continue to forgive her so she really had nothing to lose. Am I wrong? Do you think if she knew that you would have immediately divorced her if she ever cheated on you that she would have engaged in these affairs?


----------



## Acabado

Put in place all the usual snooping tools in place to verify the NC and watch her whereabouts. 
Watch her closely, if she was contemplating leaving your for him she will be in a huge withdrawal just now: mood swings, anxiety, depresion, detachment...
If she looks just fine and happy she's in contact.


----------



## Theseus

WhiteMousse said:


> You should always expose the affair. You're essentially asking whether or not you should expel necrotic cells from your body. The answer is invariably "yes."



I'm sorry but I could not possible disagree more and this is just about the worst advice in this situation. Normally, there is nothing to gain from exposing an affair, except to punish the other party, or out of revenge. I can understand informing the OM's wife, because she should have a right to know, but anything other than that is pure spite. If they were divorcing, then there's little reason to care about being spiteful, but they are not divorcing, and that is the difference.

*When couple is reconciling and trying to make things work out, exposing a previous affair to her family could not possibly help the situation in any way whatsoever, and frankly it's absolutely none of their business*. Think about it this way, would anyone here want their spouse to tell their parents every time they did something wrong?

So, in short, no, I don't think you should expose it, particularly if you are serious about trying to maintain a relationship with your wife.

Don't confuse this with letting her off the hook, but the point is, you didn't marry her parents, you married her, and so this is between the two of you.


----------



## tacoma

Garm said:


> The other man is married with 2 teenage kids. His wife got a voicemail from me and she also got the no contact letter we sent. I'm hoping she will help stop this.


How do you know she has seen these things?

If she has it may very well be why he's not contacting your wife.


----------



## walkonmars

Garm,
If I understand your situation your wife cheated with this man before - got caught and stopped it for four years. Then when she ran into him in passing, she started the affair again. Got caught again. 

She got caught because she was in the middle of deciding if she should stay with you or go with him - a married man. She didn't respect your marriage vows - she didn't respect his either. 

Soooo, what has changed (other than fear) to make her want to respect the vows of ANYONE now? I don't think that vows mean anything at all. She also admits that she loves/loved the OM.

You love her and don't want to lose your kids or more than half your paycheck each month - so those are reasons for staying - at the cost of risking your marriage once again. 

If you want a chance to make this work the affairs must be exposed to both your parents and hers. It doesn't have to be bitter or angry. Let her parents know that you will enjoy your vacation with them but they should know that you and their daughter are trying to reconcile because of her SECOND affair with Mr.otherraceman. 

Tell them to allow you space on the days you seem down and to try to influence their daughter to respect your feelings. She should be a part of this conversation. Hold nothing back. Tell them what your plans and requirements for R are.


----------



## Garm

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will wait and see if I find more evidence of contact between them before I expose the affair. 
I have to admit that I suffer from the nice guy syndrome. I just read the book. Maybe that is why this is happening to me. Also, I stay at home with the kids and she has a highly paid career going on. She must have lost respect for me. She works from home most of the time, so I can watch her closely.
She understands that she will lose a lot of time with the kids if she continues the affair and divorces. I hope that will keep her away from the other man. I know she loves the kids. 
It would be difficult to divorce because I have no career at this point.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> The other man is married with 2 teenage kids. His wife got a voicemail from me and she also got the no contact letter we sent. I'm hoping she will help stop this.


Buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and put it in her car. You should know within a week whether or not she still is in touch with the other man.

Make sure you talk directly to other man's wife on the telephone. Make sure you let her know what's going on.

Your wife was not about to leave you for the other man if she was not having sex with him. If she had sex with him before (four years ago), there would be no real courtship period now, they would go back to having sex pretty quickly.

Other man is married with two kids? How exactly was your wife going to leave you for him? Was he planning to leave his wife as well?


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> My wife is or was having an affair. I don't know if it was physical. She is trying to reconcile. She hand wrote a no contact letter that I mailed. *She says she no longer has email contact.* I have been trying to monitor her email the past couple of days. She says she still thinks about the other man, but is trying to get over it.
> I am having trouble believing that the affair ended since she loves this other guy.
> I'm trying to decide if I should contact her side of the family to expose the affair. We are going on a vacation with her parents and sister's family in 4 weeks. We are staying in a house together with them and our 2 toddlers. I think it would make the vacation very awkward and uncomfortable if I told these people about the affair. If she is still contacting the other man, I think I need help to get her to stop. I can't confirm she is still in contact yet. It seems like she would not be able to stop cold turkey like she says she's doing.
> I need some advice.


Watch out for cheaters who play word games.

Someone who is telling the truth comes out with very direct, straight-forward statements like, "The affair is over and there is no contact." Liars say things like, "There is no more email contact."


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man. Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.
> She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago. We reconciled and had 2 children together. *She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.*I know I can't believe anything she says at this point. The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.


This doesn't even sound like a good lie.

Very little in this world happens by coincidence - it takes intention. Things don't just "start" back up. "Oh, nice to see you again, and by the way, I still love you."

My guess is that she contacted this guy, not them running into each other in the neighborhood and not him contacting her. If the affair from four years ago ever was truly over.

Can you look at the phone records and see if there are an unusually large number of texts to a number you don't know?

Why are you so concerned about feeling awkward on the family vacation? I don't think I would expose to the family just yet, but I definitely wouldn't be afraid of it, or worried about feeling awkward. Let your wife feel awkward.

And, if you are concerned about keeping it under wraps for the family vacation, don't you think your wife is, too? Is it possible that she is just laying low with this guy, waiting until after the family vacation is over, before possibly contacting him again?

Tell us more about the first affair four years ago, how it started, how long it lasted, and how it ended.


----------



## Theseus

walkonmars said:


> If you want a chance to make this work the affairs must be exposed to both your parents and hers.


:scratchhead: Please explain how exposing the affair to both his parents and hers would aid in reconciliation in any way. What is the practical benefit from that? What constructive purpose would that serve? It would do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. As I said before, it is none of their business.

To the OP - I have a feeling that those who are telling you to expose the affair are saying it because they don't want you to reconcile with your wife. Based on their own experiences, they are guessing she will never be faithful to you again, and in their own revenge fantasies, they just want to see another WS "punished" for what she did.

Whether or not you should reconcile with your spouse is another issue entirely, but if you decide to do it, going the total exposure route is not going to help anything.


----------



## walkonmars

Theseus said:


> :scratchhead: *Please explain how exposing the affair to both his parents and hers would aid in reconciliation in any way. What is the practical benefit from that? What constructive purpose would that serve? It would do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. As I said before, it is none of their business.*
> 
> To the OP - I have a feeling that those who are telling you to expose the affair are saying it because they don't want you to reconcile with your wife. Based on their own experiences, they are guessing she will never be faithful to you again, and in their own revenge fantasies, they just want to see another WS "punished" for what she did.
> 
> Whether or not you should reconcile with your spouse is another issue entirely, but if you decide to do it, going the total exposure route is not going to help anything.


It isn't a matter of "gossip" or vengeance. (1) It's a means of shedding light on the affair and reduces the chances of it flaring up again and (2) it explains tensions that may surface during the vacation or other interactions. 

Tension between them noticed by the parents, especially hers will more than likely be laid at the H's feet. If questioned, it gives the W an opportunity to evade the real issues and instead point to his "moodiness". 

Light is a great disinfectant for affairs.

EDIT to add this link from Marriage builders - this is the link to Dr. Harley's recommendation on why, when, and to whom the affair should be exposed:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_exposed.html


----------



## azteca1986

Theseus said:


> :scratchhead: Please explain how exposing the affair to both his parents and hers would aid in reconciliation in any way. What is the practical benefit from that? What constructive purpose would that serve? It would do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. As I said before, it is none of their business.
> 
> To the OP - I have a feeling that those who are telling you to expose the affair are saying it because they don't want you to reconcile with your wife. Based on their own experiences, they are guessing she will never be faithful to you again, and in their own revenge fantasies, they just want to see another WS "punished" for what she did.


Besides being incredibly rude as to the motives of the other users of this board, the only one having a revenge fantasy is you.

Exposure is not an act of revenge. It'll all depends on how the OP frames the exposure:

"We need to talk to you about our marriage. [Wife] made a series of bad choices and had an affair. I don't want you to judge her, (they will of course, they'll see her as an adulteress, which unfortunately is what she is), but help us with your love and support to help us start again"

It's a question of tone that'll inform their future interactions. If for instance, the OP's WW complains to her mother about the OP, she's much more likely to advise her to communicate with her husband rather than automatically agreeing with her. Most obviously having five pairs of eyes and ears scrutinising WW's behaviour will aid killing the affair and helping R.

There's nothing wrong with asking your parents to help improve your marriage.


----------



## BobSimmons

Affair happened then it stopped then happened again..or maybe she was found out the first time, took it underground so it never stopped and was found out again.

Second scenario would be worse since during that time you both had two kids.

I agree with full transparency but most important even if she has given you access to her accounts, install the key logger just in case she's opened a secret one.


----------



## Machiavelli

Garm said:


> My wife is or was having an affair. I don't know if it was physical. She is trying to reconcile. She hand wrote a no contact letter that I mailed. *She says she no longer has email contact*.


Will already called this one. Is your wife an attorney, by any chance? They don't need email, because its been replaced with pillow talk.



Garm said:


> I have been trying to monitor her email the past couple of days.


You'll need to do more than that if you want the facts. VAR under her car seat with heavy duty velcro, keylogger, check the cell records, GPS her car.



Garm said:


> She says she still thinks about the other man, but is trying to get over it.


They weren't using rubbers. Semen contains a lot of mood elevating chemicals and they get absorbed into the bloodstream through the walls of the rectum and vagina. Also under the tongue. It's a drug. As if that wasn't bad enough, every time OM makes her climax, she gets a huge dose of PEA, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and other addictive chemicals flooding her brain. It's like she's on crack. She's an addict. Not to mention that sex is better with OM, just because. It's also a lot kinkier.



Garm said:


> I am having trouble believing that the affair ended since she loves this other guy.


The affair has ended many times. Then she gets the need...



Garm said:


> I'm trying to decide if I should contact her side of the family to expose the affair.


It would certainly be a sign that you are a man. Not only that, but a man who is taking control.



Garm said:


> We are going on a vacation with her parents and sister's family in 4 weeks. We are staying in a house together with them and our 2 toddlers. I think it would make the vacation very awkward and uncomfortable if I told these people about the affair. If she is still contacting the other man, I think I need help to get her to stop.


When to expose is a decision you have to make. It's usually more powerful the more evidence you have. Your wife has been getting plowed by this guy for years (it never ended), so yes, she's an accomplished liar and an all-around bad person.



Garm said:


> I can't confirm she is still in contact yet. It seems like she would not be able to stop cold turkey like she says she's doing.


That's right. She can't stop.



Garm said:


> I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man.


I can guess. Is your wife a size queen? What were the points of comparison? That should provide much insight into her fetishes.



Garm said:


> Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.


So, wife is an adulteress and an irrational women who has to consult magical seers to figure out how to live her life. Did the card reader tell her to stay with you? I'm guessing she did, since she hasn't run off. Or maybe OM sees her as just another one of his string of "outside" women.



Garm said:


> She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago.


Actually, it never ended. She's been one of OM's stable the whole time.



Garm said:


> We reconciled and had 2 children together.


_She_ had two kids. I don't really think your wife ever intended to reproduce with you. The iron law of female hypergamy states a woman will want to mate (and reproduce) with highest quality (DNA wise) male she can get to copulate with her. You need to DNA these kids ASAP. Tell her you're doing it.



Garm said:


> She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.


No. It's been going the whole time. She's quit him many times, but can't give up that sex-high he brings her. You can't compete, because you are not a high enough quality male. Then again, she may be lying and this is a completely new guy and there may have been many others sandwiched in between. You're just the live-in baby sitter and houseb!tch. How often do you have sex? How often do other women approach you for sex?



Garm said:


> I know I can't believe anything she says at this point.


If her lips are moving, she's lying.



Garm said:


> The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.


Ummm. No. Consider this real life scenario: Black mother, white father. Bright green eyes, long blonde straight hair, althletic nordic body and features, milky white skin. Total Aryan poster girl. She was a "Miss Black UTA" about 30 years back and the black girls just about rioted over it.

This is a touchy subject. Since you don't know about these things, I'm guessing you're not black and don't have any close black friends to set you straight (I only know about it because I'm a "race traitor" LOL). You don't have to say whether or not the OM is black, but if he is black and your wife isn't, this is a very, very tough fetish to crack from both sides. 

Another thing, your wife my have any number of paramours. Just because the one OM you actually know about is some other race, doesn't mean one of her other OMs is not the father. It could be anybody. From what you've posted here, I'd say it's 80/20 somebody else is the father or at least one of her kids.

See an attorney and find out what your rights are.



Garm said:


> She told me that she will tell me when the other man tries to contact her. It's been 2 weeks since D-Day and she says there has been no contact, and I haven't found any more evidence. I really don't want to ruin our vacation by telling her family.


All of that is pure Bravo Sierra.



Garm said:


> The other man is married with 2 teenage kids. His wife got a voicemail from me and she also got the no contact letter we sent. I'm hoping she will help stop this.


Your hoping SHE will stop it? Well, maybe she will, but you need to hand deliver your message to make sure she gets it. Have you threatened OM yet? Hmmm. No surprise there.



Garm said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will wait and see if I find more evidence of contact between them before I expose the affair.


What boundaries have you laid down to your wife? Have you made her hand over her phone for daily inspection? do you compare the logs to the bill? Have you required her to wear a tracking device? Why not?




Garm said:


> I have to admit that I suffer from the nice guy syndrome. I just read the book. Maybe that is why this is happening to me.


No question that it's a big part of the puzzle.



Garm said:


> Also, I stay at home with the kids and she has a highly paid career going on.


Man, you're a walking stereotype. In fact, in this one thread you've hit all of the cuckold stereotypes I know of. You mean you expected to keep a woman interested when you had no income producing job at all?

Women, generally speaking, cannot be attracted to a man who makes somewhat less than themselves for very long. Until you fix this, you don't have a chance.



Garm said:


> She must have lost respect for me.


Why do you think she ever had any?



Garm said:


> She works from home most of the time, so I can watch her closely.


If this is so, how has she been able to conduct these affairs?



Garm said:


> She understands that she will lose a lot of time with the kids if she continues the affair and divorces.


Get the ball rolling on the divorce. You can't win this battle, because you're disarmed. You don't have the attitude, the physique, or the essence to pull off a successful R with this harpy. Get your testosterone levels checked while you're out. I think you'll be shocked.



Garm said:


> I hope that will keep her away from the other man. I know she loves the kids.


You didn't mention OMs race and I don't need to know it, but if your wife has a BBC fetish (how did they meet, Craigslist?) she loves that more than her kids. This also works the other way, although it is quite a bit more rare and not a fetish fad.



Garm said:


> It would be difficult to divorce because I have no career at this point.


If she's highly paid and you're a SAHD, now is the time for divorce. You'll get custody, she'll pay you big $$ alimony and CS. Get down to a lawyer ASAP.


----------



## Entropy3000

Garm said:


> My wife is or was having an affair. I don't know if it was physical. She is trying to reconcile. She hand wrote a no contact letter that I mailed. She says she no longer has email contact. I have been trying to monitor her email the past couple of days. She says she still thinks about the other man, but is trying to get over it.
> I am having trouble believing that the affair ended since she loves this other guy.
> I'm trying to decide if I should contact her side of the family to expose the affair. We are going on a vacation with her parents and sister's family in 4 weeks. We are staying in a house together with them and our 2 toddlers. I think it would make the vacation very awkward and uncomfortable if I told these people about the affair. If she is still contacting the other man, I think I need help to get her to stop. I can't confirm she is still in contact yet. It seems like she would not be able to stop cold turkey like she says she's doing.
> I need some advice.


No. One does not stop cold turkey. It will take her about eight weeks of full NC to withdraw.

Any contact whatsoever starts the clock over.

Who is the other man? Does she work with him? How did she meet him?

Why do you think this was an EA only?


----------



## Entropy3000

Garm said:


> I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man. Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.
> She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago. We reconciled and had 2 children together. She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.
> I know I can't believe anything she says at this point. The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.


Hokey Smokes. A serial cheater. She ran into him in the neighborhood. Yikes. Sounds like the original affair was rug swept. 

Realize she could have been carrying this on much longer.

The least of your concerns should be ruining a vacation.

Frankly. You are rug sweeping again.


----------



## Machiavelli

Theseus said:


> :scratchhead: Please explain how exposing the affair to both his parents and hers would aid in reconciliation in any way. What is the practical benefit from that? What constructive purpose would that serve? It would do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. As I said before, it is none of their business.


Theseus, most guys aren't into your wittol fetish femdom scene, so they want to break up their wives' affairs. Exposure helps to do that.


----------



## tacoma

Machiavelli said:


> When to expose is a decision you have to make. It's usually more powerful the more evidence you have. Your wife has been getting plowed by this guy for years (it never ended), so yes, she's an accomplished liar and an all-around bad person.


I was just re-reading this thread thinking this.

Garm what are the chances this affair never really ended 4 years ago?


Very nice post Machiavelli


----------



## tacoma

You know what garm?

Get a DNA test on those kids...seriously.

I don't know how that got past me the first time I read this thread.

Then go back a page and re-read Machiavelli's initial post again.


----------



## walkonmars

Seriously Garm, 
If you're not going to do at least the _very minimum_ (VAR the car) then just let her do what she wants, ignore the past, live your life as best you can, don't worry about what she's doing (apparently she's not leaving you - yet), take good care of the home and kids, and keep your fingers crossed. 

Oh, don't VAR the car unless you actually plan on *DOING something* about what you find. And by doing something I mean real actions - it doesn't take nerves of steel. Just resolve and a desire to preserve self dignity. 

Lastly, get a JOB. I know taking care of your kids is important - but you really need to establish some sort of self-reliance and confidence that you can pull your own weight if/when you have to. Get some training. The kids are in school or will be soon. So make some plans kiddo.


----------



## illwill

I am a nice guy. Do not give us a bad man. You are a doormat. It's not the same. I am the nicest guy in my office, but NO ONE disrespects me. Nice guys do not start fights, but we have NO PROBLEMS ending them in a decisive manner.

A man with no code of what he will and will not do, or will and will not accept, is not a man at all.

By the way, you can get all the evidence in the world, but unless you are going to do something with it, it means nothing. It gives you a false sense you are being productive. That's fine. Your world. Come back in a few years when she is on her 5th or 6th affair and I'm sure you'll get more advice you'll ignore.

And to answer the question: Yeah. You expose. Why? Fear is the greatest motivator is human history. And please believe that fear of exposure is a cheaters greatest weapon. And yes they do know all about your fear. It plays on the shame of the betrayed. But why are you ashamed? You did not cheat.

The only shame you should have is because you have no code.


----------



## Garm

Thanks for the advice. I think some of you are thinking a little extreme about this. I will delete this thread soon because I don't want my wife to see this and figure out it's me.


----------



## Garm

Does anyone think I should wait until after the vacation to expose the affair? Everyone is so excited to be taking the kids to the beach. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Garm said:


> She told me that she will tell me when the other man tries to contact her. It's been 2 weeks since D-Day and she says there has been no contact, and I haven't found any more evidence. I really don't want to ruin our vacation by telling her family.


YOU didn't ruin sh1t.. She did.. Let us be very clear on this.. 

Unless you physically or emotionally abused her or have some substance abuse problem your forgetting to tell us.. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG...

She ruined the vacation the day she decided to see this other man. Further who gives a fvck about this vacation when your life and marriage have been turned upside down.

God sakes man do not rug sweep this and take this a bit more serious then having to worry about upsetting your inlaws.. Who gives a rats a$$ how awkward it might be. 

You posting sounds like this.. Oh I have marriage cancer you think I should get a second opinion after my vacation ? 

You need to address this head on and fix this ASAP. EVERYTHING ELSE should be taking a backseat to this. It includes your vacation. Though it might be good to just get her away from him for a bit. But you cannot let your guard down for a second.

As was mentioned you MUST EXPOSE, no if, and or buts.. Hopefully they won't be dopes like my relatives and tell you well family is family and blow you off.

The reason for exposure is not to embarrass the person. It is to show the truth of the affair. Affairs like a fungus thrive in darkness. Once exposed to light they die. 

Hopefully someone in her family or friends could also talk some sense into her. Sometime someone else telling her the same exact thing as you are doing makes more sense to her because simply it is coming from someone else. Coming from you it just sounds like someone trying to do anything to save their marriage.

You need to come on strong with this. Trust me when I tell you this. I am telling you from a guy who FAILED. You don't want to be me. My failure is in my signature if you want to see what happens if you don't what is requested of you.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Machiavelli said:


> Will already called this one. Is your wife an attorney, by any chance? They don't need email, because its been replaced with pillow talk.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll need to do more than that if you want the facts. VAR under her car seat with heavy duty velcro, keylogger, check the cell records, GPS her car.
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't using rubbers. Semen contains a lot of mood elevating chemicals and they get absorbed into the bloodstream through the walls of the rectum and vagina. Also under the tongue. It's a drug. As if that wasn't bad enough, every time OM makes her climax, she gets a huge dose of PEA, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and other addictive chemicals flooding her brain. It's like she's on crack. She's an addict. Not to mention that sex is better with OM, just because. It's also a lot kinkier.
> 
> 
> 
> The affair has ended many times. Then she gets the need...
> 
> 
> 
> It would certainly be a sign that you are a man. Not only that, but a man who is taking control.
> 
> 
> 
> When to expose is a decision you have to make. It's usually more powerful the more evidence you have. Your wife has been getting plowed by this guy for years (it never ended), so yes, she's an accomplished liar and an all-around bad person.
> 
> 
> 
> That's right. She can't stop.
> 
> 
> 
> I can guess. Is your wife a size queen? What were the points of comparison? That should provide much insight into her fetishes.
> 
> 
> 
> So, wife is an adulteress and an irrational women who has to consult magical seers to figure out how to live her life. Did the card reader tell her to stay with you? I'm guessing she did, since she hasn't run off. Or maybe OM sees her as just another one of his string of "outside" women.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it never ended. She's been one of OM's stable the whole time.
> 
> 
> 
> _She_ had two kids. I don't really think your wife ever intended to reproduce with you. The iron law of female hypergamy states a woman will want to mate (and reproduce) with highest quality (DNA wise) male she can get to copulate with her. You need to DNA these kids ASAP. Tell her you're doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> No. It's been going the whole time. She's quit him many times, but can't give up that sex-high he brings her. You can't compete, because you are not a high enough quality male. Then again, she may be lying and this is a completely new guy and there may have been many others sandwiched in between. You're just the live-in baby sitter and houseb!tch. How often do you have sex? How often do other women approach you for sex?
> 
> 
> 
> If her lips are moving, she's lying.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm. No. Consider this real life scenario: Black mother, white father. Bright green eyes, long blonde straight hair, althletic nordic body and features, milky white skin. Total Aryan poster girl. She was a "Miss Black UTA" about 30 years back and the black girls just about rioted over it.
> 
> This is a touchy subject. Since you don't know about these things, I'm guessing you're not black and don't have any close black friends to set you straight (I only know about it because I'm a "race traitor" LOL). You don't have to say whether or not the OM is black, but if he is black and your wife isn't, this is a very, very tough fetish to crack from both sides.
> 
> Another thing, your wife my have any number of paramours. Just because the one OM you actually know about is some other race, doesn't mean one of her other OMs is not the father. It could be anybody. From what you've posted here, I'd say it's 80/20 somebody else is the father or at least one of her kids.
> 
> See an attorney and find out what your rights are.
> 
> 
> 
> All of that is pure Bravo Sierra.
> 
> 
> 
> Your hoping SHE will stop it? Well, maybe she will, but you need to hand deliver your message to make sure she gets it. Have you threatened OM yet? Hmmm. No surprise there.
> 
> 
> 
> What boundaries have you laid down to your wife? Have you made her hand over her phone for daily inspection? do you compare the logs to the bill? Have you required her to wear a tracking device? Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No question that it's a big part of the puzzle.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, you're a walking stereotype. In fact, in this one thread you've hit all of the cuckold stereotypes I know of. You mean you expected to keep a woman interested when you had no income producing job at all?
> 
> Women, generally speaking, cannot be attracted to a man who makes somewhat less than themselves for very long. Until you fix this, you don't have a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think she ever had any?
> 
> 
> 
> If this is so, how has she been able to conduct these affairs?
> 
> 
> 
> Get the ball rolling on the divorce. You can't win this battle, because you're disarmed. You don't have the attitude, the physique, or the essence to pull off a successful R with this harpy. Get your testosterone levels checked while you're out. I think you'll be shocked.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't mention OMs race and I don't need to know it, but if your wife has a BBC fetish (how did they meet, Craigslist?) she loves that more than her kids. This also works the other way, although it is quite a bit more rare and not a fetish fad.
> 
> 
> 
> If she's highly paid and you're a SAHD, now is the time for divorce. You'll get custody, she'll pay you big $$ alimony and CS. Get down to a lawyer ASAP.


Mac, as usual you're analysis is spot on.

So much so that I think it should be a sticky at the top of the CWI page.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Garm said:


> Does anyone think I should wait until after the vacation to expose the affair? Everyone is so excited to be taking the kids to the beach. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.


Look decide if you want to be married and have your wife or not.

IF you do. Then EXPOSE RIGHT NOW..

But if you don't care then don't do anything and see how it turns out.

You think her telling you that is is thinking about this other man, but trying to stay strong is good ? What that means is if this guy just pushes her enough she will crumble and run back to him.

Again take the time to read my story to see what failure will bring you. Its like looking into the future. See if that is the future you want.

Good luck


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Entropy3000 said:


> The least of your concerns should be ruining a vacation.


:iagree:

He needs to get his priorities straight.

I would expose her cheating ass to the world, file for divorce, seek custody of the children, and request alimony.

Quit being a doormat and take control of your life.


----------



## walkonmars

Garm said:


> Thanks for the advice. I think some of you are thinking a little extreme about this. I will delete this thread soon because I don't want my wife to see this and figure out it's me.


Garm, Garm, Garm,
Why in the world would you be fearful of your wife finding this thread? Have you lied to us? Exagerated or stretched the truth? 

Heck, you should print out the advice (except the VAR in the car posts) and show it to her. Ask her why you shouldn't follow every bit of it.

But if you are going to seek more evidence, you'll need more advice, you can always move this thread to the private section. 

You can wait on exposure if you want but dont lose your resolve.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Garm said:


> Thanks for the advice. I think some of you are thinking a little extreme about this. I will delete this thread soon because I don't want my wife to see this and figure out it's me.


:scratchhead:

Seriously Garm, you need to get a job and quit playing Mr. Mom. You sound like a wife who's afraid that her husband will cut off her allowance.

(BTW, are you afraid of your wife?)


----------



## illwill

Garm said:


> Does anyone think I should wait until after the vacation to expose the affair? Everyone is so excited to be taking the kids to the beach. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.


DO IT SUNDAY MORNING AFTER CHURCH. There will never be a good time, but just do it and get it over with.


----------



## snap

If you were stay at home spouse and primary caretaker for children, you can seek alimony and primary custody in case of divorce. That's what alimony has been made for.


----------



## Theseus

walkonmars said:


> It isn't a matter of "gossip" or vengeance. (1) It's a means of shedding light on the affair and reduces the chances of it flaring up again and (2) it explains tensions that may surface during the vacation or other interactions.


1. Exactly why do you need to shed light on the affair to her parents? She's not a child. And her parents are not marriage counselors or the judge in their divorce proceeding. 

2. You can explain tensions without going into details that her family probably doesn't want to hear. All that will do is make the vacation miserable for all, and make it even more difficult to reconcile.


----------



## Theseus

Machiavelli said:


> Theseus, most guys aren't into your wittol fetish femdom scene, so they want to break up their wives' affairs. Exposure helps to do that.



Machiavelli, 

 I will try to keep this civil and just say that I *REALLY* don't appreciate your mudslinging or your attacks on my intentions. I have never said I have a "femdom fetish" nor would it matter if I had. I would give the exact same advice if this were a woman writing about her WH. 

In this case the affair is already broken up, and the couple is trying to reconcile. Some people here don't like that, but that's the OP's decision, not yours.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Theseus are you a wayward?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Garm , tell the whole truth to your parents and hers, ask for their support to help save your marriage. Exposing your wife's affair will not be the reason the marriage fails , her affair, lack of honesty and unwillingness to do everything to save the marriage will be . She has choices, she chose to have an affair , she can choose to woman up and do what must be done to reconcile with you. Rug sweeping and not being honest about her behaviour is not an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Garm said:


> Does anyone think I should wait until after the vacation to expose the affair? Everyone is so excited to be taking the kids to the beach. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.


Cancel the vacation. When the in-laws ask why, that's when you expose. Why would you want to go on vacation anyway?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Theseus said:


> Machiavelli,
> 
> I will try to keep this civil and just say that I *REALLY* don't appreciate your mudslinging or your attacks on my intentions. I have never said I have a "femdom fetish" nor would it matter if I had. I would give the exact same advice if this were a woman writing about her WH.
> 
> In this case the affair is already broken up, and the couple is trying to reconcile. Some people here don't like that, but that's the OP's decision, not yours.


Because going easy on a cheater, especially a woman who is primary breadwinner and has financioal clout over her husband has proven time and time again to fail. 

This woman is not remorseful, she's just irritated and sorry she got caught. OP needs to scare some sense in her and make sure that if divorce goes down, everybody knows why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

There have been a lot of stay at home dads here. A woman can not biologically accept a man that is not a provider.

Get a job, its unlikely you will fix this. Humans are much more hardwired than we like to admit.

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer for the logic of it all. The sooner you download/buy it the sooner you will see the solution. Here is a link:The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## old_soldier

Garm said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will wait and see if I find more evidence of contact between them before I expose the affair.
> I have to admit that I suffer from the nice guy syndrome. I just read the book. Maybe that is why this is happening to me. Also, I stay at home with the kids and she has a highly paid career going on. She must have lost respect for me. She works from home most of the time, so I can watch her closely.
> She understands that she will lose a lot of time with the kids if she continues the affair and divorces. I hope that will keep her away from the other man. I know she loves the kids.
> It would be difficult to divorce because I have no career at this point.


Does not matter if you have a career or not. If you divorce and she is the bread winner she will have to pay spousal support to maintain your current lifestyle. Also because you are a SAHD, you have primary cusdody of the children, she will have to pay child support.

You *MUST*expose this affair. The sooner the better. Your freinds and family and the OM wife can be you allies, but only if they know.


----------



## Theseus

bandit.45 said:


> Because going easy on a cheater, especially a woman who is primary breadwinner and has financioal clout over her husband has proven time and time again to fail.


Has nothing to do with "going easy" on someone. In my earlier comment I said he shouldn't let her off the hook. 



> This woman is not remorseful, she's just irritated and sorry she got caught. OP needs to scare some sense in her and make sure that if divorce goes down, everybody knows why.


That's like killing someone with a warning shot. 

Exposing it to the whole family burns a bridge you can never get back. That's usually not a problem if they are divorcing, but it's idiotic if they are really trying to reconcile. And you said it yourself - "if divorce goes down". That's the point. Divorce is not happening here (yet).


----------



## dgtal

exposing to the OMW is good enough to kill the affair and should be done face to face with or without evidence. Make sure you tell her the consequences are serious if your husband dont stop fvkng around with your wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

I agree with Thesus on the point of exposure.

In most cases if R is the path exposing to family is going to create walls and burn bridges within extended family.

If there is no direct benefit to exposure with family I say don't do it.


----------



## happyman64

> She understands that she will lose a lot of time with the kids if she continues the affair and divorces. I hope that will keep her away from the other man. I know she loves the kids.
> It would be difficult to divorce because I have no career at this point.


Garn

Your wife might learn to respect you if you act like a man that has a set.

I m not saying this to hurt your feelings.

Go see an attorney. Understand your rights.

Have divorce papers drawn up.

Then on your vacation in front of your inlaws announce to them what is going on and hand your wife the D papers.

Ask her to read them while on vacation.

Make sure she understands what she has to lose. Not just her kids but you!

And let your inlaws know this is the 2nd time she has pulled this crap with the same guy. Oh yeah. Explain to them the OM is married and of another race.

Then enjoy your vacation.

that is how you earn respect!

HM64


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

happyman64 said:


> Garn
> 
> Then on your vacation in front of your inlaws announce to them what is going on and hand your wife the D papers.


Happyman, I disagree with this advice.

Why would he want to put himself in a position of being on vacation with her and HER family and exposing the affair.

Blood is thicker than water and he will be outnumbered. It's already sometimes unpleasant being around in-laws for an extended period of time. I wouldn't want to add exposure to the vacation mix.

And vacation should be the last thing on his mind right now. The kids are young and won't mind missing the vacation.

There are more important things to deal with right now that going on a vacation. Vacations are for spouses that love, care, and respect one another. Alas, this is not the case.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Eli-Zor said:


> Theseus are you a wayward?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He sure sounds like one.

Another Johnny-come-lately know it all who is smarter than the rest of us.


----------



## happyman64

Count

I disagree with you on this one.

His WW is a repeat offender.

He should do it right in front of her family.

They shoud know that their Daughter all powerful, money making executive is a cheater.

And you know what else?

Him and his wife can discuss the options while his inlaws watch the kids.

Maybe they will view their SIL differently than being just Mr Mom.

HM64


----------



## warlock07

Theseus said:


> Has nothing to do with "going easy" on someone. In my earlier comment I said he shouldn't let her off the hook.
> 
> 
> 
> That's like killing someone with a warning shot.
> 
> Exposing it to the whole family burns a bridge you can never get back. That's usually not a problem if they are divorcing, but it's idiotic if they are really trying to reconcile. And you said it yourself - "if divorce goes down". That's the point. Divorce is not happening here (yet).


did he not try the good way once already?


----------



## Theseus

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He sure sounds like one.
> 
> Another Johnny-come-lately know it all who is smarter than the rest of us.


No need to be defensive. If you can show that I'm wrong, then do it. Otherwise, I would prefer that you don't try to turn this thread into personal ad-hominem attacks. I'm at least smart enough to know that's not the way adults should have conversations.


----------



## Theseus

warlock07 said:


> did he not try the good way once already?


And if the good way doesn't work, then you try the "bad" way?

Look, maybe the OP's wife is incorrigible and he should divorce her instead. But that's his decision. While reconciliation is on the table, then I'm going to give him my advice on that. That is all.


----------



## Garm

I have come very close to exposing this to the in-laws. I am concerned with what Theseus is saying about burning bridges. I understand both sides here. 

My wife does seem to be remorseful about this. She is allowing me to look at her email and phone. I have not found a second phone. She is not trying to leave the house without me. She is showing affection to me. She said that I can buy a DNA test for the kids. 

She is saying that she needs to see a counselor to try to figure out why she was having the affair. 
She is not denying that she is in love with the other man. That makes me angry and it makes me want to expose the affair. She is still saying the affair only lasted 2 months back in 2008, and also 2 months this year. I find this hard to believe. 

The other man's wife got the no contact letter and sent a text to my wife asking her to confirm it was her. I watched my wife send a confirmation text to the other man's wife saying that it was my wife who wrote the no contact letter. The other man's wife has no doubt about the affair. 

I have not decided on the exposure to my in-laws yet. I am reading up on exposing affairs in other threads so I can make a decision. Thanks for all of the advice here.


----------



## Shaggy

You need to compare notes with the OMW.


----------



## snap

Theseus said:


> Look, maybe the OP's wife is incorrigible and he should divorce her instead. But that's his decision. While reconciliation is on the table, then I'm going to give him my advice on that. That is all.


I exposed. We reconciled. It wasn't the first thing I've done, or something I done happily. It's a sentiment which can be echoed by nearly every BS in R here.

We check notes here, and despite the diversity of cases certain things nearly always match. So you have to excuse people getting incredulous when you go against common wisdom.

Could you briefly outline your experience so we see where you're coming from?


----------



## Eli-Zor

Garm said:


> I have not decided on the exposure to my in-laws yet. I am reading up on exposing affairs in other threads so I can make a decision. Thanks for all of the advice here.


We did not make up the exposure strategy, this is something supported by professionals who's intent is to give you the Betrayed Spouse the best shot at saving the marriage. If you want to save your marriage start by telling the truth, hiding the truth and rug sweeping her affair enables her to be just as deceitful next time. 

Telling the truth to her parents and asking for their support puts an extra set of eyes on her. Your action to expose will place you in a far better position for R compared to sitting back fearful and then losing your marriage. If she walks because of the exposure then your marriage was doomed. Exposure never destroyed any marriage , affairs do.


----------



## Garm

I did expose the affair to the other man's wife. I also exposed it to one of my wife's girl friends. I called her up to ask her if my wife really was visiting her a month ago. I told I called to ask because she was having an affair. 

I'm thinking about going to the other man's place of work. I could take my kids and announce to everyone in that office about what this man is doing to my family without losing my temper. Is that a bad idea?


----------



## Jibril

Garm said:


> I'm thinking about going to the other man's place of work. I could take my kids and announce to everyone in that office about what this man is doing to my family without losing my temper. Is that a bad idea?


Terrible idea. DO NOT do this, unless you want to give yourself legal trouble. It's one thing to expose, and quite another to harass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garm

Jibril, you are right. Bad idea. I won't do that.


----------



## walkonmars

Garm 
did you read the link I left you about the reasons, why, whens, whos, of exposure by the marriage and relationship expert Dr. Harley? 

You don't have to take our word for this - read his blog about why you should expose - it is sensible and he has much more experience that us (including you know who)


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Theseus said:


> No need to be defensive. If you can show that I'm wrong, then do it. Otherwise, I would prefer that you don't try to turn this thread into personal ad-hominem attacks. I'm at least smart enough to know that's not the way adults should have conversations.


:rofl:


----------



## old_soldier

Garm said:


> I did expose the affair to the other man's wife. I also exposed it to one of my wife's girl friends. I called her up to ask her if my wife really was visiting her a month ago. I told I called to ask because she was having an affair.
> 
> I'm thinking about going to the other man's place of work. I could take my kids and announce to everyone in that office about what this man is doing to my family without losing my temper. Is that a bad idea?


I think this is a great idea, if you have the spine to pull it off!


----------



## Pepper123

Speaking from experience... had my A been exposed it would have been forced to end immediately for many reasons. The fact that exposure never resulted, only allowed the relationship to perpetuate into something far worse. 

If she expects you to try and forgive her for her actions, she can get over the embarrassment she may feel as a result of her indiscretions. She however earned it; you did not.


----------



## warlock07

Exposing to inlaws should be a no-brainer, if they are good rational people. If she is hurt, so be it. The more people she is accountable for, the better.

While taking your kids to his place might be a bad idea, exposing the OM at his work place should be an option.

Read this thread. Check how his change in attitude led to a different outcome from his wife.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ning-affair-i-asked-her-leave-without-me.html

Your wife might be genuine in her statement that she wants to end the affair but the reason for ending is not you. Maybe kids, shame, religion or guilt. She neither loves you or respects you


----------



## Garm

I found more evidence last night. I discovered that the affair is deeper than I thought. I could not sleep at all. I emailed my in-laws first thing this morning. They are very upset, but they want to help. I had a long talk on the phone with my mother. This is a lot worse than I thought guys. I don't know what to do.


----------



## Cdelta02

how much worse?


----------



## Aunt Ava

snap said:


> If you were stay at home spouse and primary caretaker for children, you can seek alimony and primary custody in case of divorce. That's what alimony has been made for.


:iagree:

I am sorry that you are in this situation. Your wife has destroyed your marriage, & family. Don't let her destroy your life.

Time to see an attorney (get a shark), seek alimony, and as a SAHD seek full custody of your toddlers. Be strong, be firm, be decisive. Do NOT let her see you cry, or see you weak. Also, Implement the 180 for your sanity. The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## happyman64

Garm said:


> I found more evidence last night. I discovered that the affair is deeper than I thought. I could not sleep at all. I emailed my in-laws first thing this morning. They are very upset, but they want to help. I had a long talk on the phone with my mother. This is a lot worse than I thought guys. I don't know what to do.


I am not surprised Garm. Saddened but not surprised.

Where are you with exposure other than your inlaws and your Mom??


----------



## Machiavelli

Garm said:


> Jibril, you are right. Bad idea. I won't do that.


Never have contact with the OM unless you are stepping in to terminate the affair with extreme prejudice. That action is no longer legal, so it is highly, highly discouraged.


----------



## Machiavelli

Garm said:


> I found more evidence last night. I discovered that the affair is deeper than I thought. I could not sleep at all. I emailed my in-laws first thing this morning. They are very upset, but they want to help. I had a long talk on the phone with my mother. This is a lot worse than I thought guys. I don't know what to do.


Garn, whatever happened, these guys have either been through it personally or had a close friend or family memory go through it. They've seen it because all affairs closely follow only 3 or 4 scripts as they play out. These guys can give you the advice you need. What happened?


----------



## sandc

Cdelta02 said:


> how much worse?


Worse enough for him to stop wondering about exposure...


----------



## Theseus

snap said:


> We check notes here, and despite the diversity of cases certain things nearly always match. So you have to excuse people getting incredulous when you go against common wisdom.


What "common wisdom"? On this own forum I see people disagree about going to the OM's workplace and expose him there. Holy cow.

I understand a lot of people on this forum were hurt by affairs, and are still angry about them. I get that. I don't blame them. But the "revenge route" no matter how you want to justify it, would help get you your divorce, but won't help with reconciliation. 

I have a degree in psychology and have read numerous experts on the subject. I have rarely seen experts that I respect recommend that a woman (or a man) carry a scarlet letter on her forehead for the whole community to be wary of for life. That can't possibly aid a couple in getting back to a normal life again. 

Moreover, I'm really curious (and no one can seem to answer this) about why it would be the in-law's business about what happens here anyway? They aren't married to the LW or his wife. Should the police be told as well? Her boss at work? Her rotary club? The neighbors? Should the husband pay for a television ad? Using your reasoning, you could twist all these actions into a justification for actually helping their marriage. 




> could you briefly outline your experience so we see where you're coming from?


Sure. I've seen it happen again and again. Couple has a fight, wife tells her family everything, then later they calm down and reconcile and forgive, but the rest of the family doesn't forgive, and as a result their relationship with the rest of the family is permanently damaged. Thank heaven my wife doesn't do this, or our marriage probably would have ended long ago.

But I have had this happen to me with an old girlfriend. We had a fight, and she told her mother all about it. Problem was, she was angry so of course everything she said painted me in the worst light possible, and her mother ends up hating my guts. Then later we calmed down, both said sorry, and we were back together, but my relationship with her mother was forever gone. In fact, today we are good friends, but I still don't think I can ever be friends with her mother because of that incident.


----------



## Machiavelli

Theseus said:


> Sure. I've seen it happen again and again. Couple has a fight, wife tells her family everything, then later they calm down and reconcile and forgive, but the rest of the family doesn't forgive, and as a result their relationship with the rest of the family is permanently damaged. Thank heaven my wife doesn't do this, or our marriage probably would have ended long ago.


A fight? Who said anything about fights? This is adultery, quite possibly on a grand scale. No related at all. Unless you and your wife fight over the bulls (minotaurs?) you pick for her.


----------



## tom67

You may want to put off the vacation. Did the affair ever end was that what you found? Stay strong for your kids.


----------



## mahike

Garm I am sorry you are going through this. You have started the exposure and I am sure that was hard. I am betting your wife is pretty upset at you at the moment for exposing to her parents. Too bad. You have exposed as well to the OM's wife. I would not involve your kids with the exposure. If they are old enough tell them what is going on but do not drag them into his world

You need to decide if you are going to R or D. Your wife must believe you will Dump her if things do not stop and work on fixing the marriage.

I would file for D and have her served, you do not have to go through with it but she needs to know that the marriage is on the edge of a cliff. I hope that will snap her out of the fog.

Get yourself to a Dr and get checked for STD's and make her go as well.

You have to be firm and tough at this point and act quickly


----------



## walkonmars

Garm 
Make an appt for a lawyer today. Take the tax returns for the last few years. Get some information on what your outcome will be if divorce is in your future. You don't have to initiate divorce yet but you need facts. Get them. Let her know you're doing it and watch her reaction. 

If she goes back to the tea-leaf reader you might as well call it a day and file - you never know when the tea bubbles and floaters will gather on the rim that's against you.


----------



## Acabado

I'm sorry man.


Garm said:


> I found more evidence last night. I discovered that the affair *is* deeper than I thought. I could not sleep at all. I emailed my in-laws first thing this morning. They are very upset, but they want to help. I had a long talk on the phone with my mother. This is a lot worse than I thought guys. I don't know what to do.


You wrote IS. Does it mean she got it underground or it WAS worse?


If this thing is undergrund lawyer up and start living the 180.
You already layed the law, she knows. No need to reiterate a thing. File, D can be stopped if she comes around.


----------



## Cdelta02

sandc said:


> Worse enough for him to stop wondering about exposure...


If we are to help, methinks we need some specifics. Not looking for the whole drama, but directional discussion is necessary.


----------



## sandc

Cdelta02 said:


> If we are to help, methinks we need some specifics. Not looking for the whole drama, but directional discussion is necessary.


I agree


----------



## Eli-Zor

Garm said:


> I found more evidence last night. I discovered that the affair is deeper than I thought. I could not sleep at all. I emailed my in-laws first thing this morning. They are very upset, but they want to help. I had a long talk on the phone with my mother. This is a lot worse than I thought guys. I don't know what to do.


Good for you, when talking with your in-laws remember they can turn on you very quickly. Be polite , don't bad mouth your wife but be firm and resolute that while you love her you will not tolerate her adultery and lies. 

Your emotions are going to rise and fall , focus on getting control of yourself , go to the doc and look after your well being. 

Say little, listen and observe what she says and does. If she does want to talk let her know she has to tell you "everything" and mention the lying is what will kill the marriage. 

Hint that you know more than she thinks you do. If she does finally commit to the marriage give her one more shot to tell the truth then poly her.


----------



## old_soldier

Machiavelli said:


> Never have contact with the OM unless you are stepping in to terminate the affair with extreme prejudice. That action is no longer legal, so it is highly, highly discouraged.


Extreme prejudice need not be violent. Embarassment, public verbal humilliation can also achive what you need, just refrain from physical violence.


----------



## Garm

Thanks guys. I found out that it was physical. I was looking for a burner phone and found something else. I don't want to go into specifics. I confronted her with the evidence and she admitted to it. I was trying to believe that it was an email affair. Now I am devastated all over again. I am going to get checked for std's. This is a lot harder to deal with now.


----------



## Machiavelli

So what do you think? Divorce or reconcile?


----------



## walkonmars

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I found out that it was physical. I was looking for a burner phone and found something else. I don't want to go into specifics. I confronted her with the evidence and she admitted to it. I was trying to believe that it was an email affair. Now I am devastated all over again. I am going to get checked for std's. This is a lot harder to deal with now.


Garm
You have to know when to hold'm and when to fold'm. 
See that lawyer and prepare yourself. 

You should also let the OM's wife know what you found. Speak to her personally. If you want to give your wife ONE more chance and she comes clean with everything then have HER call the OMW and tell her the truth. That will surely break up the affair. That will also give you some idea of her commitment to you or him.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I found out that it was physical. I was looking for a burner phone and found something else. I don't want to go into specifics. I confronted her with the evidence and she admitted to it. I was trying to believe that it was an email affair. Now I am devastated all over again. I am going to get checked for std's. This is a lot harder to deal with now.


I can just about guarantee you that it's been going on a lot longer than she let on, too.

Cheaters usually only admit to what you already know, or just enough so they think it will make sense to you and you'll then stop asking.


----------



## Will_Kane

And she's probably still in contact in some form.

Go back to square one; assume nothing she has told you is true except what you've independently been able to verify.

Blow this up with other man's wife.

File for divorce. Tell her you will CONSIDER stopping it IF she starts to tell the truth.

You have to make your wife realize you're serious.

Have her handwrite you a timeline of the affair, when and how it started, what was said, when they talked, when they met up, what they did - all details.

And tell her you want the truth about whether or not the affair from four years ago ever ended and, if it did, why she contacted him again to start it back up. Tell her you no longer buy that lame-ass story about bumping into each other by coincidence.


----------



## Garm

I really know enough already. I don't want to know any more details. I am having constant mind movies of them in a hotel or something. Is there something a doctor can prescribe to help with these emotions? I am going in to get some sleeping pills and STD tests.
This is the worst day of my life.


----------



## happyman64

Garm said:


> I really know enough already. I don't want to know any more details. I am having constant mind movies of them in a hotel or something. Is there something a doctor can prescribe to help with these emotions? I am going in to get some sleeping pills and STD tests.
> This is the worst day of my life.


Garm

We all know how you feel. It sucks when your best friend hurts you like this.

Go see the Dr. tomorrow for some anti depressants. They will help you take the edge off.

I can imagine what you found and I am sure it was not pretty. Sorry you had to see that.

And Will Kane is right. Thsi has been going on longer than you thought.

Let the OMW know. SHow her evidence. Let her take care of the POSOM.

You deal with your wayward wife.

Eat.
Drink plenty of water.
Take care of yourself.

You have all the time to deal with this.

And yes you need to get tested for STD's. 

Sorry Buddy.

HM64


----------



## walkonmars

focus on your kids and yourself. 
Gather whatever financial documents are in the house and put them in a safe place. Go to the bank and make a separate acct in your name only and put half the money there. 

Follow Happymans advice. You're going to get through this.


----------



## Acabado

Hanging there Garm!


----------



## Garm

The other man's wife got the no contact letter. I don't think she knows about the physical part. I'm sure she was told it was just email like I was. 
I don't want them to get divorced if it means the other man will be free to pursue my wife and become our kids' stepfather. I think I will avoid contacting the other man's wife again. At least she knows something was going on.


----------



## Shaggy

Garm said:


> The other man's wife got the no contact letter. I don't think she knows about the physical part. I'm sure she was told it was just email like I was.
> I don't want them to get divorced if it means the other man will be free to pursue my wife and become our kids' stepfather. I think I will avoid contacting the other man's wife again. At least she knows something was going on.


Bad bad plan.

The truth is on fact the opposite, right now he feels safe to pursue your wife, he's successfully lied to you and his wife and you both bought it,

Tell his wife so the OM is kept busy saving his own hide.

You will also find it helps you when he throws your wife under the buss, he will suddenly look far less attractive to her.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> The other man's wife got the no contact letter. I don't think she knows about the physical part. I'm sure she was told it was just email like I was.
> I don't want them to get divorced if it means the other man will be free to pursue my wife and become our kids' stepfather. I think I will avoid contacting the other man's wife again. At least she knows something was going on.


Don't show your wife this fear. Try to be strong and confident.

Think like this: _I AM THE BETTER MAN. If she wants that POS scum, she can have him._

Right in front of your wife, call up other man, tell him that he wins, if he wants your cheating lying wife, he can have her. Tell him to wait by the door, you'll be dropping off your wife along with all her baggage in a few minutes.

Go into your bedroom and start packing all your wife's stuff into trash bags. Tell her to go get in the car, you are dropping her off at other man's house.

Shake her and him up a little and show them you are not afraid.

It's only by doing stuff like this that your wife will ever start to rebuild any attraction or respect for you.


----------



## jim123

Garm said:


> The other man's wife got the no contact letter. I don't think she knows about the physical part. I'm sure she was told it was just email like I was.
> I don't want them to get divorced if it means the other man will be free to pursue my wife and become our kids' stepfather. I think I will avoid contacting the other man's wife again. At least she knows something was going on.


He is going to be contacting her anyway or she will be contacting him. My guess it is still going on. Is she on birth control.


----------



## 3putt

Shaggy said:


> Bad bad plan.
> 
> The truth is on fact the opposite, right now he feels safe to pursue your wife, he's successfully lied to you and his wife and you both bought it,
> 
> Tell his wife so the OM is kept busy saving his own hide.
> 
> You will also find it helps you when he throws your wife under the buss, he will suddenly look far less attractive to her.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Garm

Should I agree to marriage counseling or should I just let my wife go to individual counseling? She said she wants to do that.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Garm said:


> Should I agree to marriage counseling or should I just let my wife go to individual counseling? She said she wants to do that.


You do both.

It is common for you to go solo and her to go solo and then together.


----------



## Shaggy

Garm said:


> Should I agree to marriage counseling or should I just let my wife go to individual counseling? She said she wants to do that.


Before any of that she needs to tell you the real full truth and answer all qustions you have. Do far she's only admitted to what you have discovered.

See,you think you are currently deciding on R or D, but the affair hasn't truly ended because your wife is still not faithful to you. She's faithful to herself and the OM.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Shaggy said:


> Bad bad plan.
> 
> The truth is on fact the opposite, right now he feels safe to pursue your wife, he's successfully lied to you and his wife and you both bought it,
> 
> Tell his wife so the OM is kept busy saving his own hide.
> 
> You will also find it helps you when he throws your wife under the buss, he will suddenly look far less attractive to her.


Agree, tell his wife the whole truth, giving this guy a free pass leaves the door open to chase your wife. While your at it find his parents details and let them know. You have to ensure you burn all his bridges and by raising his pain threshold makes your wife not worth the chase.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Garm said:


> Should I agree to marriage counseling or should I just let my wife go to individual counseling? She said she wants to do that.


Nope ; only when she has told you everything and you have evidenced the affair is dead . Far to many BS go to MC to soon, its a cover for the wayward to pretend they are working on the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlphaHalf

Don't you think the OMW should know the WHOLE truth so that she can get tested too? Wouldn't YOU want to know it will was Physical if she found out first? 
*Why are you willing to protect the man who f#$ked your wife by keeping his physical affair secret from his wife????????????*
Sounds harsh but that's what your doing.


----------



## BobSimmons

Don't mean to go all Jedi, but your "fear" will be your ultimate failure.
You don't want to contact his wife and tell her what happened because you fear they'll get a divorce and he'll come after your wife?

You found out your wife was cheating on you and yet you haven't divorced her. So let's continue on this logic..

He's not divorced, his wife thinks it's a little fling, he takes the affair underground, he's in the clear.

He's still available to call your wife except now it's more intense, more secretive, stolen moments in the bathroom or whenever she gets some privacy, reading that one intense text before deleting it. If they do meet, it's like two lovers forbidden to be with each other, like some fantasy erotic story.

..meanwhile you're still hoping for R, you still haven't got the truth and that fear not only keeps you in the dark but it stops you from getting a true grasp of the enormity of the situation and how to start fighting for that control you so desperately need.

Without the truth you will never be in control. She will.

Without disclosure to the wife, this man has nothing to lose. He gets his marriage and he gets your wife.

You tell OM's wife and what is most likely to happen is yes, the wife might be so pissed she wants a divorce, but more likely he'll throw your wife under the bus to fight to save whatever life he's built up with his wife and family. 

Divorce means bills, divorce means forking out to pay his wife, if your wife was just a lay, he wont be willing to pay a high price for it. When she realizes that she actually meant nothing to him, whatever daze she's in will quickly subside and the cold reality will set in.

But it can't happen unless you control the situation for here on in. 

No crying, no begging, no caving.

Expose, blow their affair out of the water.

Don't ask for the truth. Demand it, or you're going to a lawyer in the morning and filing. Meanwhile she can get out the house and find a hotel to stay in. Let the reality of what she's done and the consequences of WHAT WILL HAPPEN start to sink in.


----------



## Garm

My father-in-law called my wife about this today. She put the blame on me for not being a good husband. Of course he is on her side. He is convinced the affair is over already. He gave me suggestions to improve my marriage. He wants me to do all the heavy lifting in this and pretend it never happened. I told him that I am not sure the affair is over and she is still in love with the other man. I'll work on my part of the marriage when I"m sure the affair is over and she is over her love for the other man. 
Maybe it was a mistake to expose the affair to my in-laws.


----------



## happyman64

You should have packed a bag for your wife, put it in your FIL's hand and said take her.

I will have the D papers sent to your house.

Then do just that.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> My father-in-law called my wife about this today. She put the blame on me for not being a good husband. Of course he is on her side. He is convinced the affair is over already. He gave me suggestions to improve my marriage. He wants me to do all the heavy lifting in this and pretend it never happened. I told him that I am not sure the affair is over and she is still in love with the other man. I'll work on my part of the marriage when I"m sure the affair is over and she is over her love for the other man.
> Maybe it was a mistake to expose the affair to my in-laws.


It seems that FIL wants his daughter to stay married to you. He could have called you and told you that you were a terrible husband and he was urging his daughter to leave you.

So, he believed his daughter's lie and took her side. So what? At least now, when the affair continues, he will know the truth.

Did he really say that it was OK for her to have an affair because you were a terrible husband? Or did he just want you to fix the big faults his daughter told him that you have?


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I found out that it was physical. *I was looking for a burner phone and found something else. I don't want to go into specifics*. I confronted her with the evidence and she admitted to it. I was trying to believe that it was an email affair. Now I am devastated all over again. I am going to get checked for std's. This is a lot harder to deal with now.


Can you tell us what you found? Not the sexual details, but how long it has been going on, and any other lies she told about how long it lasted, how they re-connected, where they were meeting to have sex, etc.?


----------



## Garm

My wife admits she's still in love with the other man. It's only been 2 and 1/2 weeks since d-day and no contact. She wants us to go to counseling so she can get over it. She's afraid to leave me because she knows I will most likely get the kids and child support. I'm trying to be strong and show her that I am not a doormat here. I am not crying or begging. I am making demands and letting her know what I need her to do. Any suggestions?


----------



## Garm

Will_Kane said:


> Can you tell us what you found? Not the sexual details, but how long it has been going on, and any other lies she told about how long it lasted, how they re-connected, where they were meeting to have sex, etc.?


After finding new evidence of the physical affair, she revised her story to say they reconnected around September or October 2012. I found evidence that they had sex in early November.


----------



## Shaggy

Garm said:


> My wife admits she's still in love with the other man. It's only been 2 and 1/2 weeks since d-day and no contact. She wants us to go to counseling so she can get over it. She's afraid to leave me because she knows I will most likely get the kids and child support. I'm trying to be strong and show her that I am not a doormat here. I am not crying or begging. I am making demands and letting her know what I need her to do. Any suggestions?


Yes, expose to his wife. Get him out as an option for her.


----------



## walkonmars

She's not going to "fall out of love" with the OM by seeing a MC. A MC is going to deal with your marital issues. 

She will see him as less attractive and desirable when she sees tangible negative consequences.

Going to MC in my opinion is a ploy to get you to behave. How is her emotional conection and the rememberance of steamy sex with him going to dimimish by discussing your shortcomings with a counselor?

It's a gaslighting move. Intended to prevent you from divorcing her, taking the kids and more than half her pay. She's protecting her self interests not yours.

She already told her dad its all your fault so what do you think the MC is going to try to address? Yep your faults. Not her, not the OM, not the cheating.

How is that going to have her fall out of love with him?

Your ONE chance is to proceed with divorce & expose the OM to his wife. They might begin to blame each other. Negative consequences for both.Thats your only hope.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> I found out by finding a note that she wrote comparing me to the other man. Then she admitted to it. I also found an email to a tarot card reader who she paid for advice. She was trying to choose to stay with me or go with the other man.
> She had an affair with this guy 4 years ago. We reconciled and had 2 children together. She says she ran into him in our neighborhood and they started the affair back up through email for the last 2 months.
> I know I can't believe anything she says at this point. The kids are not the other man's because he is a different race from us.


Garm, her whole story is rotten with lies. You know nothing but what you've found on your own. She has not told you one single thing that was true that you didn't already know.

So, bullsh1t on the Sept-Oct 2012 thing. She knows damn well if it was September or October, so that's the first giveaway, that she doesn't know when it started up again.

I have a pretty good idea that this affair from four years ago never really ended. It may have gone on hiatus for a couple of months, not much more than that. They didn't run into each other in the neighborhood.

If you found evidence from November, and she will tell you "Sept or Oct" you know it has to go back much further than that. She should be able to pinpoint the actual day it started. I'm not saying that she will know that day off the top of her head, but she won't have to work too hard to figure it out.

Also, she tells you there hasn't been any email contact. But she leaves the house, and I guarantee you she still is in contact with the other man. It explains all her actions and her attitude.

When you confronted her about the physical affair, did she deny it until she realized you already had the truth? And then found out what part of the truth you had uncovered, and made up a story to fit it?

Do you have a voice-activated recorder in her car?


----------



## Garm

Thanks guys. I don't have a recorder yet. 
When I confronted her, I woke her up and showed her the evidence and had her admit to the physical affair. 
Should I expect her to have this attitude because she needs time to get over the other man? Do you really think she continued the affair even when we were trying to get pregnant and then she went through those 2 pregnancies?


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> After finding new evidence of the physical affair, she revised her story to say they reconnected around September or October 2012. I found evidence that they had sex in early November.


She originally told you they reconnected in January 2013 and did not have sex.

You found sex in early November 2012. She countered with they re-connected in September or October 2012. In cheater-speak, this means, it has been going on so long, I can't even tell you when it started - because it never really ended.

Garm, looking back, can you pinpoint a point in time when your wife's behavior changed between the original affair four years ago and now?

Garm, given that they were lovers from at least early November 2012, and given that you caught her when you found her going to a tarot card reader and making a list of pros and cons of you vs. other man, *do you really believe that there has been absolutely no contact between them since the no contact letter was sent? * Especially since your wife is not particularly remorseful, still loves the other man, and has blamed the whole thing on you to her parents?

Do you have a keylogger on her computer?


----------



## Shaggy

Take her for a polygraph , it will help get answers out of her.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I don't have a recorder yet.
> When I confronted her, I woke her up and showed her the evidence and had her admit to the physical affair.
> Should I expect her to have this attitude because she needs time to get over the other man? *Do you really think she continued the affair even when we were trying to get pregnant and then she went through those 2 pregnancies?*


Garm, there have been many other stories on these threads saying just that. Many posters have said they were in the midst of trying to get pregnant, and wife was cheating (unprotected, of course) the whole time.

When a woman is madly in love with a man, she can't help herself with wanting to have sex with him.

Start detaching from your wife. Expose other man to his wife and family and friends.

Why is your wife with you now? She wrote the comparison down between you and the other man. She asked the tarot card reader. This kind of implies that she felt other man was available to her if she wanted him. And, if that is true, that she could have left you for the other man, why didn't she?


Not wanting to be known as a cheater?
Other man really was not available, and your wife was mistaken when she thought he was?
The kids?

Why?

My best guess is that the affair still is going on, contact is being maintained somehow, maybe they still are meeting for sex, and other man is not ready to leave his wife for yours. Or your wife is not ready to leave you for him. Maybe your wife is waiting until after vacation to leave you for him, because to do so before vacation would make it awkward.

Some women in affairs are not that emotionally invested. Even when they say I love you, they don't really mean it. Many women can only love one guy at a time. Your wife seems like that. And the guy she loved was other man. You are like the old friend (platonic) who always has been there for her. And you are the father of her children.

If you want to save your marriage, listen to Eli-Zor and make this affair extremely unpleasant for the other man.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I don't have a recorder yet.
> When I confronted her, I woke her up and *showed her the evidence* and had her admit to the physical affair.
> Should I expect her to have this attitude because she needs time to get over the other man? Do you really think she continued the affair even when we were trying to get pregnant and then she went through those 2 pregnancies?


I wonder what her answer would have been if you had NOT shown her the physical evidence? What would she have said if you told her you found indisputable evidence that she was lying about the sex and about the dates, and that you wanted her to tell you the truth?


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> Thanks guys. I don't have a recorder yet.
> When I confronted her, I woke her up and showed her the evidence and had her admit to the physical affair.
> *Should I expect her to have this attitude because she needs time to get over the other man? *Do you really think she continued the affair even when we were trying to get pregnant and then she went through those 2 pregnancies?


Some of the cheaters who post here have said that it took some time to completely get over the affair partner, that they were depressed at the loss of the affair partner and it took a few weeks to start to get over - with no contact.

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you refer to your wife's attitude, but blaming you for the affair, even to her parents, is not what cheaters do if they really are sorry for having the affair.


----------



## Machiavelli

Garm, back in the old days before birth control, women were pregnant often. Once pregnant by the BH, they would see their OMs. Ben Franklin equated a pregnant young woman with a ship under full sail. Your wife may have stopped the sex with OM until she was pregnant, and then started up again.

I agree about the polygraph. Tell her you want her to take one. She will spazz out on you.


----------



## happyman64

And Garm.

Stop being nice. Nice guys finish last when it comes to infidelity.

Your wife has cheated on you twice with the same man.

She continues to lie to you because she knows she can get away with it again.

Expose the Affair to the On my way!. Do not let your wife know you are going to do this.

And go see an attorney. Understand your rights. Do not let your wife know you are doing this as well.

Get tough. And do not even consider MC until the affair is squashed or she will use it to pacify you and make you think she is being proactive to save the marriage.

You need to believe that the marriage is disposable until she shows you truth, remorse and boundaries.

There needs to be consequences for her actions now.

HM64


----------



## TryingToRecover

Garm; said:


> My father-in-law called my wife about this today. She put the blame on me for not being a good husband. Of course he is on her side. He is convinced the affair is over already. He gave me suggestions to improve my marriage. He wants me to do all the heavy lifting in this and pretend it never happened. I told him that I am not sure the affair is over and she is still in love with the other man. I'll work on my part of the marriage when I"m sure the affair is over and she is over her love for the other man.
> Maybe it was a mistake to expose the affair to my in-laws.


The awareness of the affair by others is what's important. There will be some people who may seem to take her side (is she a daddy's girl?), some people who won't seem to care either way, others who will take your side, etc. Don't get distracted by comments, opinions - especially terrible advice telling you to rugsweep. Opinions are like.....

Expose and remain true to what you need to do.


----------



## Garm

She is not showing much remorse. She says she is unhappy because she has not been contacting the other man. She wants counseling to see if she can get over him. 

I really want her to be begging me for forgiveness and offering to do anything to make it up to me. That is not happening. I am not being a Nice Guy lately. I told her to sleep in another room. I am trying to avoid talking to her. 

My stepfather emailed me again. He says I should trust her now and communicate my love, and not push her away. I need to ask her how I can improve the marriage. I disagree with this advice.


----------



## BobSimmons

Garm said:


> She is not showing much remorse. She says she is unhappy because she has not been contacting the other man. She wants counseling to see if she can get over him.
> 
> I really want her to be begging me for forgiveness and offering to do anything to make it up to me. That is not happening. I am not being a Nice Guy lately. I told her to sleep in another room. I am trying to avoid talking to her.
> 
> My stepfather emailed me again. He says I should trust her now and communicate my love, and not push her away. I need to ask her how I can improve the marriage. I disagree with this advice.


You disagree with his advice yet you ignore the advice given you here. 

How do you propose she begs you for forgiveness when she's pining for another man?

Not talking to her, her sleeping in the other room...guess what? 

Not a punishment. In fact she's free to text OM in the privacy of her own room, once again not conducive for R is it?

Do you think she's going to fall in love with you after..having and affair

Getting pregnant with your kid

Resuming the affair

Getting pregnant with your kid

Affair once again

See a pattern? You're the safe bet, he's the fire and sparkles, so much so when confronted that you know about the affair she even tells you she needs counselling to get over him.

You remain impotent in the face of a raging storm.


----------



## Garm

My kids really love my wife. She does act like a good mother even though I don't understand how she could. She spends most of her off work hours with them, except for those times when she was "working late." I know they will get hurt if we divorce. I feel like I am trapped here.


----------



## walkonmars

Garm
You know why she isn't begging. It's all she can do to choke out the lie that she wants to work it out. 

She would be tearful, sleepless, crying, unable to eat if she was remorseful. She might look sad but it's not because of you or the marriage. 

If it wasn't for her dad, and the consequences of divorce (losing kids' custody and 1/2 her pay) she would be on cloud 9 and float to the OM.


----------



## AlphaHalf

did you expose the physical affair to the omw or are you still helping him by keeping it secret?? If not then your his biggest ally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

You don't know if it was/is physical? That's a pretty important little tidbit of info there...

This is the second go 'round? I'd file for divorce yesterday.


----------



## sandc

Garm,
What do you REALLY want? Do you want to stay married to THIS woman or would you be happier with a different woman who was in love with YOU? What is it that you really want? You can't have the woman you married, she's dead. You can continue a life with this woman you find yourself with. A woman who's in love with another man. A woman you'll have to monitor for the rest of your marriage, verify everything she tells you.

Yes it will suck for the kids but SHE did this, not you. She broke up your family. You'll be able to teach them valuable lessons whether you stay with your wife (the importance of fidelity, self-respect, and being able to work through differences) or whether you divorce her (the importance of fidelity, self-respect, and being able to work through differences).

But first you need to decide what you want.


----------



## Acabado

Tell you FIL to mean his bussiness, his princess is a serial adulterer and a patological lier. She's not only destroying her own family but other one.
He has no idea of what the marriage looks like beyond the pity parties she's selling him. And he's not a MC and protecting her is doing her a huge disservice. 
The only reason you are considering to stay if for the kids she had after he caught her for the first time if she ever ended it. She didn't learn a thing. And now you are forced to DNA the kids.
Does he know about the first affair?


----------



## Acabado

And fore heaven's sake. Keep gathering evidence, stop confronting at every piece you get.
And expose to BW. And monitor the aftermath. Hopely MOM will throw her under the bus very clearly which might help her to clear her mind.

MC is useless, it won't help her stop "loving" OM at all. It's a waste of time, money and energy.


----------



## Garm

I've been talking to my mother for support. She came over and one of the kids had a tantrum. She was telling me that we are traumatizing the kids because I'm always angry at my wife. My son was just having a normal tantrum because he was hungry. I'm not yelling at my wife. We have had arguments, but I don't raise my voice and I keep it short and try to avoid talking to her at all. 

She was telling me that I should start being nice to my wife and act like nothing ever happened. She said I should believe my wife that the affair is over. I told her that I have to be sure that the affair is over before I can even begin to forgive her. 
My mother is being so nice to my wife. It seems like she is on her side. 
I can't believe my mother and my father in law think I should sweep this under the rug. I'm so angry at my mother that I don't want her coming over here for a while.


----------



## turnera

Your mother is wrong. Maybe she cheated on your dad so she's sympathizing. (sorry)

If they continue, point them here and they can read thousands of stories where rugsweeping only lets the cheater cheat again.


----------



## Garm

Thanks for the support turnera. I have learned a lot here. I wish I had found TAM in 2008 when I first found out about what kind of person my wife really is.


----------



## anonim

Theseus said:


> I'm sorry but I could not possible disagree more and this is just about the worst advice in this situation. Normally, there is nothing to gain from exposing an affair, except to punish the other party, or out of revenge. I can understand informing the OM's wife, because she should have a right to know, but anything other than that is pure spite. If they were divorcing, then there's little reason to care about being spiteful, but they are not divorcing, and that is the difference.
> 
> *When couple is reconciling and trying to make things work out, exposing a previous affair to her family could not possibly help the situation in any way whatsoever, and frankly it's absolutely none of their business*. Think about it this way, would anyone here want their spouse to tell their parents every time they did something wrong?
> 
> So, in short, no, I don't think you should expose it, particularly if you are serious about trying to maintain a relationship with your wife.
> 
> Don't confuse this with letting her off the hook, but the point is, you didn't marry her parents, you married her, and so this is between the two of you.


I disagree. Exposing prevents the WS from using other people as cover for the affair and from telling different stories to different people. And sometimes, revenge is good for the soul!


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

turnera said:


> Your mother is wrong. Maybe she cheated on your dad so she's sympathizing. (sorry)


Either that or his dad cheated on her and she rugswept the affair.


----------



## Acabado

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Either that or his dad cheated on her and she rugswept the affair.


The "old school".


----------



## LostViking

I would agree that his mother may have had affairs of her own. I saw this with my mother in law when I broke up with my first wife over her affair. Her mother demonized me and made me out to be the villain, when all I had done was treat her daughter like a princess. 

It angers me that his own mother would take her daughter in law's side in this. At the very least she should be told to keep her opinions to herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

anonim said:


> I disagree. Exposing prevents the WS from using other people as cover for the affair and from telling different stories to different people.


And it brings a heavy dose of humility, having to tell your parents that you cheated on your spouse. That's about the closest you can come to getting the FWS to understand the gravity of what they did, that feeling they have when they admit it. Plus, being honest with them allows them to then be a support system for the both of you when it gets hard to R.


----------



## BobSimmons

Garm said:


> I've been talking to my mother for support. She came over and one of the kids had a tantrum. She was telling me that we are traumatizing the kids because I'm always angry at my wife. My son was just having a normal tantrum because he was hungry. I'm not yelling at my wife. We have had arguments, but I don't raise my voice and I keep it short and try to avoid talking to her at all.
> 
> She was telling me that I should start being nice to my wife and act like nothing ever happened. She said I should believe my wife that the affair is over. I told her that I have to be sure that the affair is over before I can even begin to forgive her.
> My mother is being so nice to my wife. It seems like she is on her side.
> I can't believe my mother and my father in law think I should sweep this under the rug. I'm so angry at my mother that I don't want her coming over here for a while.


Depends on how old your folks are. If they are old school, from some backgrounds affairs were tolerated and you dealt with it and moved on for the sake of the family. Many suffered in silence while their partner philandered. You don't have to suffer, you are your own man, and this is your family.


----------



## sandc

I'm beginning to think that when exposing to the parents of the betrayed spell should make it sound like they are the ones having the affair not the wayward spouse. get the parents reaction first then turn it around on the net it is actually there son or daughter there that is having the affair. see if the tune changes at all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NatureDave

You have this a little backwards and your Mom and Father in law to do have some valid points.

You state that "I'm not going to work on my side of the marriage until I'm sure the affair is over and she is over her love for the other man".

WRONG!

First of all, the affair is 100% her fault, she made the choice to go outside the marriage to get her emotional needs met.

However, you are both equally responsible for the state of the marriage that made this possible. That means there is plenty on your side of the street that needs to be cleaned up.

She's not going to get over her "love for the other man" if she's not getting love and emotional needs met by you. 

I don't know if you're subscribing to the 180 plan, but a lot people misinterpret it. The 180 is to demonstrate the confident, strong, and loving person that she fell in love with and that you will be fine with or without her. It is not a plan to punish the spouse by ignoring them, arguing, and lack of attention.

Some spouses follow, beg, plead the wayward like a hurt puppy dog. This is not attractive and what the 180 tries to avoid.

But, you do have to show yourself as a safe, loving, and better alternative than the other man. You have to start meeting her emotional needs, and that needs to start today. 

It's not fair, the betrayed spouse usually does have to do most of the heavy lifting, particularly at the beginning.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

NatureDave said:


> You have this a little backwards and your Mom and Father in law to do have some valid points.
> 
> You state that "I'm not going to work on my side of the marriage until I'm sure the affair is over and she is over her love for the other man".
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> First of all, the affair is 100% her fault, she made the choice to go outside the marriage to get her emotional needs met.
> 
> However, you are both equally responsible for the state of the marriage that made this possible. That means there is plenty on your side of the street that needs to be cleaned up.
> 
> She's not going to get over her "love for the other man" if she's not getting love and emotional needs met by you.
> 
> I don't know if you're subscribing to the 180 plan, but a lot people misinterpret it. * The 180 is to demonstrate the confident, strong, and loving person that she fell in love with and that you will be fine with or without her. * It is not a plan to punish the spouse by ignoring them, arguing, and lack of attention.
> 
> Some spouses follow, beg, plead the wayward like a hurt puppy dog. This is not attractive and what the 180 tries to avoid.
> 
> But, you do have to show yourself as a safe, loving, and better alternative than the other man. You have to start meeting her emotional needs, and that needs to start today.
> 
> It's not fair, the betrayed spouse usually does have to do most of the heavy lifting, particularly at the beginning.


:scratchhead:

The 180 is for his benefit.

He is doing it for HIMSELF - without consideration for what his wife thinks.


----------



## Garm

I have been very angry since discovering the physical affair. I have been ignoring my wife and making her sleep in another room. I can't even look at her right now, and I try to avoid being in the same room. Is this the wrong way to deal with the situation? I just can't bring myself to be cheerful around her at all.


----------



## BobSimmons

Garm said:


> I have been very angry since discovering the physical affair. I have been ignoring my wife and making her sleep in another room. I can't even look at her right now, and I try to avoid being in the same room. Is this the wrong way to deal with the situation? I just can't bring myself to be cheerful around her at all.


People handle it differently pal. If you're pissed then good on you, heal however you need to heal but she has to do the heavy lifting from here on in. Sorry for your pain.


----------



## walkonmars

Garm said:


> I have been very angry since discovering the physical affair. I have been ignoring my wife and making her sleep in another room. I can't even look at her right now, and I try to avoid being in the same room. Is this the wrong way to deal with the situation? I just can't bring myself to be cheerful around her at all.


Don't abuse her physically. And don't berate her in front of the children. But don't be afraid to express your thoughts - but do in in a calm way and only when you KNOW what you want to say. Don't just start babbling. 

Yeah, the bedroom is for married people - is she? Is she still "comparing the pros and cons" ? You can weigh them too. 

Did you expose to the OM's wife? In person or at least by phone?


----------



## Will_Kane

It's your natural reaction. You're doing OK so far.

Acting like nothing happened - just get over it - NEVER works.

What is your wife doing at this point?


----------



## Garm

My wife is trying to be nice at times. But she is saying that there is no way we can move forward as long as I am always angry. We got into an argument and she threatened to move out. She threatened to get a temporary court order for 50/50 custody of the kids and get an apartment. Do you think that is possible for her to do? I really can't tell if she is serious. She went back to being nice to me later after that argument.


----------



## Will_Kane

Garm said:


> *She is not showing much remorse*. She says she is unhappy because she has not been contacting the other man. She wants counseling to see if she can get over him.
> 
> *I really want her to be begging me for forgiveness and offering to do anything to make it up to me. That is not happening.* I am not being a Nice Guy lately. I told her to sleep in another room. I am trying to avoid talking to her.
> 
> My stepfather emailed me again. He says I should trust her now and communicate my love, and not push her away. I need to ask her how I can improve the marriage. I disagree with this advice.


Where do you stand on this front? Any remorse? Any apology whatsoever?

It is natural to be angry about the affair and to take it out on her. Has anyone ever been angry with you, rightfully angry, after you had done something to anger them? What is the quickest way to defuse their anger? Is it not by apologizing, letting them know you were completely at fault, and that you will not do it again?

If you can, let your wife know that you will stop being so angry when she owns up to her actions, apologizes, and agrees not to do it again. AND NOT JUST WORDS. She'll have to handwrite the no contact letter, she'll have to write down a complete timeline of the affair THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU (NOT THE SAD HALF-ASSED UNBELIEVABLE LIE SHE'S BEEN TELLING YOU SO FAR), she'll have to let you monitor all her communication devices and accounts and let you know where she is 24/7, never delete anything until after you see it.

In return for your wife doing these things for you, you will BOTH - YOU AND HER - work on the things that were wrong with yourselves and your marriage.


----------



## Will_Kane

Tell your wife you need the truth, that her story doesn't make sense. Consider giving her something like this:

_To Whomever, 

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. 

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes. 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. 

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. 

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. 

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. 

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. 

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. 

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. 

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.​_


----------



## walkonmars

Garm said:


> My wife is trying to be nice at times. But she is saying that there is no way we can move forward as long as I am always angry. We got into an argument and she threatened to move out. She threatened to get a temporary court order for 50/50 custody of the kids and get an apartment.* Do you think that is possible for her to do? I really can't tell if she is serious*. She went back to being nice to me later after that argument.


She can absolutely do this. She didn't commit a criminal offense so it's easy for her to obtain a legal separation, request custodial parent status, & offer you visitation. 

She has been devious, lied, cheated, played you for much of the last four years. So do you think she is beyond acting on her threat? You can believe she has already looked into this possibility. 

You need to see a lawyer and find out what you can and can't do in your situation. What you can expect if she acts on her threat. Be careful. She wants you to hush while she contemplates her future. She believes she is the decider.


----------



## Garm

I went to get checked for STD's and paid with my health insurance. They asked me to sign a consent form for the HIV screening that says it could affect my insurance coverage and will be on my permanent medical record. I could choose to do it anonymously elsewhere. After reading this I declined the HIV screening but got all the other tests done. 

Now I am worried the other STD screenings will affect my insurance somehow if they come back testing positive. I'm thinking about trying to call to cancel the STD screenings and get them done anonymously somewhere else. What should I do?


----------



## walkonmars

AFAIK STD tests don't affect ins premiums. It makes sense, they're curable with practically no long term health issues (if treated). OTOH AIDS is long term with years of expensive meds.

Don't cancel.


----------



## Garm

Thanks walkonmars. I appreciate all of your comments on this thread.


----------



## turnera

I really don't think they can raise your rates if you have a certain disease. Lawsuit in action.


----------



## cledus_snow

> My wife is trying to be nice at times. But *she is saying that there is no way we can move forward as long as I am always angry.* We got into an argument and she *threatened to move out.* She *threatened to get a temporary court order for 50/50 custody of the kids *and get an apartment. Do you think that is possible for her to do? I really can't tell if she is serious. She went back to being nice to me later after that argument.


sounds to me like she wants you to rugsweep her affair and is threatening you with these things if you don't "get over it" already.

it takes 2-5 years to get over an affair in most cases. how the f*ck does she expect you NOT to get angry, and stay angry, if this is her second "go 'round"..... with the same d0uchebag?


you have to start getting tough, mr. nice guy.


----------

