# Wifes Depression causing second thoughts on having children / future



## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

Hello, Im brand new to this site but saw this thread topic and was hoping I might be able to get an outside point of view. Ill try to keep it as short as possible but with (hopefully) all the needed detail.
My Wife and I have been married just short of 3 years and been together a little over 4 total. While we dated and were engaged life was wonderful, about as close to a fairytale as possible. My only warning (which I didn’t take) was that she had told me that her childhood had been rough but that she was totally fine now and all that was in the past. We talked previous to marriage about the main topics such as finances, household and children but our first mistake was not doing pre-marital counseling. Thinking that we had such a great relationship it wasn’t needed. The short version (Ill expand or explain more if needed) is that I found out shortly after we married that my wife suffers from depression and anxiety. In the 3 years we’ve been married we‘ve been in counseling on two separate occasions for almost half that. The first occasion was to figure out what was going on and what was so wrong (I didn’t realize at first what was going on or why she acted the way she did). The second time (which is still ongoing) has been mainly to help me as I’ve struggled with our future (I’ll explain). My wife is on medication now to help with her depression/Anxiety (I found out in counseling she had been on them before I met her but she had taken herself off them). So she is able to handle difficulties better now, she still has some bad times but the effect is like night and day. Although on the other hand if she forgets her medication or if she gets too busy to refill it the medication wears off after maybe a day or so, this has happened a few times now. This causes a Dr Jekyll and Mrs Hyde effect. The future that had looked so bright and promising now scares me as I think of our future (mainly about having kids). During those first two years was truly hell for us both, I was very scared a few times for my and her physical safety (on some occasions she was violent hurting herself while damaging furniture or walls, sometimes I thought she would be violent towards me although this never happened) and thought I would never want anyone to go through what we did. Now I know things are a lot better with her on medication but I cant help shake the thought of “Mrs Hyde” returning (especially since she’s lapsed on her medication a few times and has even talked of wanting to go off them). She has been talking about having children in the (very) near future and I have a difficult time responding to her. We are in our early /mid thirties, both definitely want to have children and a family and we don’t want to give that up but right now and the foreseeable future I cant see myself having them with her. 
Am I just being paranoid since we’ve gone through so much or should we actually part our ways so that we can fulfill these dreams (its been insinuated but not discussed directly)


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

First of all do not have children with her right now. The way she is acting sounds like something else going on not just depression/anxiety. The only thing I know to tell you is to keep doing what you're doing with the counseling. I know she told you she didn't have a good childhood but that she was fine now, well I doubt that. Do you know what all went on in her childhood? She needs to discuss this with her counselor. I hope too she stays on her meds. I had a friend who was notorious for taking her self off her meds and it was usually a awful thing.


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## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

Hello, 
Sorry bout the state of my original post, I had a difficult time rereading it myself this morning. I wrote it up in the early morning on little to no sleep. To answer your questions though we have talked about her childhood and it has been brought up with the counselor, Your right though, that it isn't (and never really was) resolved in the past. It still plays a factor in her depression, whether there's something else beyond just her depression/anxiety is quite possible but has either not been looked into or diagnosed by the doctor.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

How are her family members? Any of them with a history of mental illness? I, too, believe she is dealing with more than just depression and/anxiety.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sorry, but if she keeps wanting to go off the meds, that does not bode well for raising children. That's irresponsible, and she's shown that she can and will make that choice.

And the meds might be bad for the baby during pregnancy.

And depression can run in families, so there's that to think about, too.

And depression meds sometimes stop working, or no longer work as well.


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## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

827Aug said:


> How are her family members? Any of them with a history of mental illness? I, too, believe she is dealing with more than just depression and/anxiety.


Hmm, no mental illness im aware of from her folks / grandparents etc. Though her sister suffers from anxiety, the only thing about her folks is they are not as warm as im used to with my family
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm sorry, but if she keeps wanting to go off the meds, that does not bode well for raising children. That's irresponsible, and she's shown that she can and will make that choice.
> 
> And the meds might be bad for the baby during pregnancy.
> 
> ...


 All of these (except the meds wearing off / not working) has crossed my mind as well which hasnt helped the issue ...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CNA_JAC (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm soo sorry this is Happening to you. It sounds like you've given it a good effort. Time to cut ties so she can work out her issues and find herself. You both deserve to be happy and have families but to me it sounds like she is not the one. Good luck with the future.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

taralom said:


> Whether there's something else beyond just her depression/anxiety is quite possible but has either not been looked into or diagnosed by the doctor.


Taralom, I agree with CalaLily that you seem to be describing dysfunctional behaviors (e.g., "violent hurting herself") that go far beyond simple depression and anxiety. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. 

For long-term, persistent mood problems, the two most common explanations are bipolar disorder and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found nine clear differences between the two disorders.

*One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _hating you_.

*A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. 

*A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD temper tantrums typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, these short-duration rages are consistent with with the tantrums you describe.

*A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. 

*A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry. BPD, however, often results in side effects of depression and anxiety, so doctors often prescribe medication to treat those side effects. The meds do not make a dent, however, in the underlying BPD traits.

*A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

*A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.

*An eight difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when she is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

*Finally, a ninth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for any extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. 

Yet, despite these nine clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that these two disorders often occur together. According to a recent study (pub. 2008), about half of bipolar-I sufferers also have full-blown BPD.

Taralom, if you would like to read a brief overview of typical BPDer behaviors, I suggest you read my description of such traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. By the way, when you say that your W was "violent hurting herself" on several occasions, do you mean that she was deliberately hurting herself (e.g., cutting or hitting herself)?


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## Sundawg (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi there,

I too have found this site based on the fact that I am a woman with depression and before I did my research, it deeply affected the man I intend to marry next year, as well as activities I once enjoyed, my social life, my energy level and caused fatigue with soaring anxiety. I had to get a handle on it. First of all, please understand that there are many forms of depression and despite what others have responded to your post with, some forms of depression can cause severe mood swings. I don't believe this is anything more than a combination of severe depression and anxiety. I can suggest that one way to start is to accompany your wife in an anger management session. I found that a group session with other couples facing similar circumstances helped me, rather than the one on one with a counselor. Secondly, if your wife is suffering from depression having to do with any life altering event in her childhood, then she must learn to cope and put closure on this issue which the group therapy I mentioned earlier could help with. Chances are she has a chemical imbalance that is causing this Jeckel and Hyde effect and the sooner she learns to control this, rather than it controlling her, the sooner you both will be on your way to peace. One thing to keep in mind is that when she is going through her moods, it is the depression talking and acting, not her. Depression causes us to say and do things that are extreme and believe me, you are on the receiving end of this illness. We have to live in our bodies with it. It's a private hell for all sufferers. When you are ready to have children, I suggest going to your nearest health food store and buying a bottle of Maca. It is a natural herb derived from the Maca root originating in Peru. There are no side effects as experienced with anti-depressants and it improves clarity, energy and balance in women. It is even highly recommended for menopausal symptoms. Vitamin B12 also targets the nervous system and helps with the anxiety. Gravol is also harmless in treating anxiety, especially at night as it causes drowsiness. The maca helped me within a week and I have not had an episode in more than a month. I take it after lunch and dinner. My boyfriend has noticed a huge change and we even joke around about him taking maca when he gets bent out of shape over things. I have been an anxiety/depression sufferer for 20 years so I do know a thing or 2 about what you are going through. I hope this helps.


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## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Taralom, I agree with CalaLily that you seem to be describing dysfunctional behaviors (e.g., "violent hurting herself") that go far beyond simple depression and anxiety. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.
> 
> For long-term, persistent mood problems, the two most common explanations are bipolar disorder and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found nine clear differences between the two disorders.
> 
> ...


Hello Uptown,
Alot (not all of them but the majority) of the differences you've mentioned, are also symptoms Ive seen in my wifes behavior like you mentioned more on the BPD side of the effects. Thank you for the links as well as that has given alot of insight into what may be going on, and was planning on running this by our counselor.To answer your question yes, theres been a few (too many) instances where she would deliberately hit her head on the nearest object (table, counter, wall etc.) at times Ive had to chase her around the house to stop her from doing so.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

taralom said:


> Yes, theres been a few (too many) instances where she would deliberately hit her head on the nearest object (table, counter, wall etc.) at times Ive had to chase her around the house to stop her from doing so.


Taralom, repeated instances of self harm, as you likely know by now, is one of the nine basic BPD traits. By itself, it does not imply she has an overall pattern of such strong traits. Self harm nonetheless is strongly associated with having such strong traits. A 2004 study, e.g., concludes:_"Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma."_ ​I don't know whether that study included "head bangers" or not but I believe such behavior likely would be considered self mutilating. See the abstract at Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI.


> ...was planning on running this by our counselor.


Because there is a good chance that BPD traits are a problem, I advise you against running it by a marriage counselor. I strongly suggest you see a clinical psychologist. Moreover, it is important to see the psych on your own, without your W present. I mention this because, if your W is high functioning and has strong BPD traits, therapists will be loath to tell her -- much less tell you -- the name of her disorder. It usually is not in a HF BPDer's best interests to be told. The information therefore is generally withheld to protect them -- and because listing BPD as a diagnosis almost guarantees that the insurance company will refuse to cover the treatments.

Hence, trying to obtain candid advice about BPD traits from your W's therapist -- or a therapist seeing both of you -- would be as foolish as trying to get candid advice from her attorney during a divorce. It is important to see your OWN psychologist for a visit or two by yourself and describe the behaviors you are seeing. Lastly, Taralom, if you want links to good online resources and websites about BPDers, I will be happy to give them to you. One such resource is BPDfamily.com, which is targeted solely to the partners and spouses of BPDers.


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## taralom (Jul 7, 2012)

Uptown, thank you for the quick reply as i might have done something more damaging than good (telling our marriage counselor) i would greatly appreciate any other links you may have and ill be certain to run these through a clinical psychologist on my own instead. Again I greatly appreciate the heads up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

taralom said:


> I would greatly appreciate any other links you may have_._


Taralom, if you think you may stay with her, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. If she actually has strong BPD traits, that book likely will read like the story of her life. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. Both books are written by the same author. For a list of the nine BPD traits, see Borderline Personality Disorder.

Second, as I mentioned earlier, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such a large problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" and "Leaving" boards.

Third, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. The other articles are good too.

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping numerous other people in your situation.


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