# workaholic wife blues



## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

My wife is traveling this week (and does so frequently) and warned ahead of time she'd be hard pressed to call or email. The warning wasn't really needed as it is her usual behavior.

So, I guess I shouldn't be hurt that that is the case. But, I am. With this last trip, her travel included the weekend and she actually had Sunday at a hotel with little obligation except for hanging out with a male coworker (yes, I'm a bit jealous). 

I had hoped she'd call to talk or at least write something more than a couple lines on that day especially. She certainly will make time to write lengthy emails at home during weekend days or from our bed after the kids are down at night. 

This behavior is pretty chronic with her business travels and I've talked with her that having a little more communication from her to the kids [and I!] would be well received. But, it ties in with her behavior when she's not traveling too: many nights a week I'm left in the dark if she'll make it home for dinner only to find out a meeting ran late and/or she went out for appetizers and wine.

I realize her work, and especially her travel, is an escape from home life for her: After our kids were born she confided she was going crazy as a mom (despite my having cut work to half-time to help out and be a team at it). So, she returned to work and I became the SAHD and the circus began. 

But still, having realized her escapism, I've worked to make home life as welcoming as possible. However, my accommodation for her work schedule goes only so far: I've almost stopped trying to schedule date nights as they're increasingly forgotten, delayed by late meetings or interrupted by emails at the restaurant table. I've grown to enforce dinner & bedtimes regardless of her typically unknown evening schedule. But, I also worry our kids are starting to feel (hopefully NOT from me) as low priorities in her world. In talking with her about these sacrifices, of course, it's all about financial independence, etc...

Does anyone have suggestions of how to better deal, or cope, with this? 

Lastly, her behavior in this way seems to quite possibly be slowly increasing. Her drinking in the last five years (that I know of) has increased from a weekend glass of wine to 2 or 3 glasses a day. Strangely too, in the last two years, her sex drive went from zero to insatiable. I'm not complaining about this! ... but there is subtle behavior that I'm not cutting it for her (topic for another thread I suppose).


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

business travels and no sex.

Affair(s) can be "an escape from home life for her" to...

:scratchhead:


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I think its time to ponder some very serious boundaries and see how she reacts and/or go stealth mode on investigating her behavior while away from you.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

How often does "she having an affair" crosses your mind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> How often does "she having an affair" crosses your mind?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not often, though I have to admit I've considered it especially with her newly found interest in sex (but, I also figure it might be just changing hormones, growing confidence in her career, etc.). She's not overly protective of her smart phone, etc. and the only reason I knew she'd be with the coworker was that she left open the email on her phone on the counter.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

Be careful. You are putting your relationship in a dangerous situation. My husband was always one of those guys that everyone thought was the perfect husband- great dad, great husband, very nice, etc. For the past 3 years he has had to work excessive hours to get his career up and running. Never in a thousand years did I expect to find what I did less than 3 weeks ago- he was having an EA (emotional affair) and was in love with another woman. I thought we were making sacrifices of time in order to be further ahead later, but really we were sacrificing our marriage  I think everything is going to be O.K., but we have lots of work to do. We have realized that we totally put our marriage in danger. He was living a life separate from the rest of our family and would just pop in "to visit" on the weekend. We had increased drinking going on- actually it turned out to be a huge contributer to his poor choices. And yes, better sex too.... I'd definitely be aware... We have had to make some drastic changes- I just wish we would have done them sooner.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

My first thought is that she wasn't really cut out to be a mom.

Every mom I know including my wife can't get enough with the kids.

that doesn't solve your problem though.

Seem like the driving force in her life is her career, no.1 over you and the kids. BTW, what kind of work does she do that's so absorbing. Also, you say her her sexual appetite is now 'insatiable'.
Is it with you, or does she just talk about it?


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nikoled said:


> Be careful. You are putting your relationship in a dangerous situation. My husband was always one of those guys that everyone thought was the perfect husband- great dad, great husband, very nice, etc. For the past 3 years he has had to work excessive hours to get his career up and running. Never in a thousand years did I expect to find what I did less than 3 weeks ago- he was having an EA (emotional affair) and was in love with another woman. I thought we were making sacrifices of time in order to be further ahead later, but really we were sacrificing our marriage  I think everything is going to be O.K., but we have lots of work to do. We have realized that we totally put our marriage in danger. He was living a life separate from the rest of our family and would just pop in "to visit" on the weekend. We had increased drinking going on- actually it turned out to be a huge contributer to his poor choices. And yes, better sex too.... I'd definitely be aware... We have had to make some drastic changes- I just wish we would have done them sooner.


Thank you. That would certainly be how I characterize my wife's persona though I am incredulous to believe it of her for how she behaves at home.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> My first thought is that she wasn't really cut out to be a mom.
> 
> Every mom I know including my wife can't get enough with the kids.
> 
> ...


I agree with your first comment (now) and I tend think she'd agree too in the right moment. I also agree her career is #1 (its managing a lot of people, etc.). I always thought it was fear of failing or not having enough $ (however, we're fine that way and I was able to provide just fine at half-time anyway which reinforces your first thought).

Her interest in sex is with me... and she's picked up reading 'fun' novels. Whether the books have spurred the interest or it's a life change I don't know....


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## LifeIsAJourney (Jan 24, 2013)

If I might ask, how old is your wife? 

I know that when my son was in high school and I hit peri-menopause, I became a workaholic and my sex drive went into high gear. I also have a fondness for racy novels.  According to the book "The Female Brain", many women experience a hormonal shift that kind of rewires their brain and makes them less nurturing as their estrogen levels decline. It's as good an explanation as any I've heard for what I experienced. 

I also had an emotional affair. No one would have never expected something like that out of me in a million years. Especially my husband. Keep your eyes open.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

She is increasing drinking, sex life increases suddenly. Can't contact you when she travels. 

She has you at home as the "little woman" while you keep the house and she is around alpha males.

Chances she is cheating is like 100 %


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

LifeIsAJourney said:


> If I might ask, how old is your wife?
> 
> I know that when my son was in high school and I hit peri-menopause, I became a workaholic and my sex drive went into high gear. I also have a fondness for racy novels.  According to the book "The Female Brain", many women experience a hormonal shift that kind of rewires their brain and makes them less nurturing as their estrogen levels decline. It's as good an explanation as any I've heard for what I experienced.
> 
> I also had an emotional affair. No one would have never expected something like that out of me in a million years. Especially my husband. Keep your eyes open.


Just turned fifty and the coming menopause was in my thoughts as well. Before yesterday's offline traveling behavior, an affair of any kind would've surprised me but that is probably naïve or arrogant. I guess that lack of contact on presumably a day off, while with a man is making me re-think it all. The particular guy subtly caught my attention a few months back. It wasn't so much what my wife said about him but her voice. I dismissed at the time as my insecurity.


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## Chana (Sep 14, 2013)

What reasons does she give for being unable to be in contact? My husband travels for work (not as much now, but in the recent past, it was a lot more) and almost always manages to contact home daily no matter how busy he is. I know there are some occupations where this isn't possible but if she is in a hotel, on a weekend day, it seems to be lack of inclination rather than opportunity.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Get a voice activated recorder and stick it in her car.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Not any real hard red flags. As pretty much chief 007 here I would suggest the following:

Look around. QUIETLY. Look at cell bill etc. Above all DO NOT TELL HER ANYTHING. DO NOT BRING IT UP! Just look around.

How many free days out?
How many free nights out?

Something stinks and I just had a shower so it aint me.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I traveled hard in the past and phoned every night.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> My wife is traveling this week (and does so frequently) and warned ahead of time she'd be hard pressed to call or email. The *warning* wasn't really needed as it is her usual behavior.
> 
> *Do you infer that it was a warning about other behavior? Was she admitting to minor failing because she was feeling guilty about something larger?*
> 
> ...


Read the thread of Jerry123. Read Bagdon. They are two SAHD's in the same situation as you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I started writing a bunch of stuff. But I am going to cut to the chase.

Get a job. Soon. You are going to need it.

If the kids are school age you do not need to be home all day.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Entropy for the post of the day. Be prepared for UGLY and Im hoping its NOT an affair but this just gives me the same vibe as RTBP...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's not in contact with you because she doesn't want to be. Whether it's an affair or not is something you need to be checking into. Starting with the guy she's spending time with on the road.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

There's no reason for her not to contact you. You can make the time. No one is that busy.

Maybe what you should do is open your mouth and let her know that her not contacting you because she's so busy is as lame as I ever heard. 

If it were me, she would know ASAP that this will stop and new boundaries need to be put in place.

I would also go get a job and let her know that she's going to be needed at home a little more often. Those kids are hers too and she needs to be with them like you do. 

Honestly to me it sounds like a woman whose holding all the cards and is dealing your cards from under the deck. She might be the bread winner but that's no excuse to shirk her other duties like being a wife and mother. Open your mouth and say something. She's not a mind reader. If she continues, then you let her know in a way that she understands.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Thank you all for the responses earlier.

Barbados, I admit it does feel like playing the 'little woman' on occasion  Chana, most of the time her excuses are pretty lame (forgot her charger and the phone was out of power, that sort of thing) and I'm hard on her for that and I've taken to making sure chargers are packed. tom67 & weightlifter, I'll consider the idea... there's nothing like gathering a few facts and I'm currently working in the dark. 

Also, more info: I've actually never quit working and have been very fortunate to squeeze in a little time for clients in the early morning - and more now as the kids are at school.

Longwalk, thanks for the bullets I think you have some good points. I'm not certain if it was a warning or just trying to abate anticipated criticism she'll receive as she has from earlier trips. Yes, I aggree her socializing stings but only when it so fully overshadows home & husband. I'll check out the threads you mentioned.

I tend to think youre dead-on Openminded & 6301 - making the effort to call home is just not in her mindset. Like others have mentioned too, she's checks out as wife & mother most of the time and tries to compensate by swooping at the last minute to recover for lost time and bonding. I believe that technique will fail with the kids soon and I've lost patience with it personally.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Don't ever and I mean ever ask her if there's another man. 

And woman don't cheat just because you're a SAHD. I've seen plenty of SAHM's that cheat on hard working provider husbands. 

My advice would be to get a pen recorder. A good one goes for $120. You can insert it in her pocket book. It goes through airport security fine. Recording time is only 9-10 hours but you'll get evidence pretty quick if she's having an affair. 

I'm a SAHD also but I do bring in some income. How long have you been one?

So my best advice would be keep your eyes and ears open and keep your mouth shut. If you need more info on pen recorder just message me. 

Oh and by just getting a job, it won't change her much at all. Someone still needs to tend to kids and it sounds like she still won't if you get a full time job. If it turns out she is having an affair you will need all the weapons to beat her. Just like a SAHM that finds out her husband is cheating and she takes him to the cleaners.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If she's not having an affair, she will be.

This is very predictable as you have let her do more and more inappropriate behavior as your wife and your children's mother.

The escalation is her cry to get you to stop allowing her to walk all over you and her children.

Proving an affiar is secondary. It's either happening or will happen based on the path she is on that you paved for her.

Creating a path out of this nonsense, where you gain as much custody as possible and as much child support as possible and as much spousal support as possible is your best path.

This will either wake her up or it will wake you up.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> My wife is traveling this week (and does so frequently) and warned ahead of time she'd be hard pressed to call or email. The warning wasn't really needed as it is her usual behavior.
> 
> So, I guess I shouldn't be hurt that that is the case. But, I am. With this last trip, her travel included the weekend and she actually had Sunday at a hotel with little obligation except for hanging out with a male coworker (yes, I'm a bit jealous).


You should be concerned!!! I would....ESPECIALLY if she has been drinking every day. This means very little self control, not good for someone that's in a marriage.....



HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> I had hoped she'd call to talk or at least write something more than a couple lines on that day especially. She certainly will make time to write lengthy emails at home during weekend days or from our bed after the kids are down at night.


This sounds fishy.....




HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> This behavior is pretty chronic with her business travels and I've talked with her that having a little more communication from her to the kids [and I!] would be well received. But, it ties in with her behavior when she's not traveling too: many nights a week I'm left in the dark if she'll make it home for dinner only to find out a meeting ran late and/or she went out for appetizers and wine.
> 
> I realize her work, and especially her travel, is an escape from home life for her: After our kids were born she confided she was going crazy as a mom (despite my having cut work to half-time to help out and be a team at it). So, she returned to work and I became the SAHD and the circus began.
> 
> But still, having realized her escapism, I've worked to make home life as welcoming as possible. However, my accommodation for her work schedule goes only so far: I've almost stopped trying to schedule date nights as they're increasingly forgotten, delayed by late meetings or interrupted by emails at the restaurant table. I've grown to enforce dinner & bedtimes regardless of her typically unknown evening schedule. But, I also worry our kids are starting to feel (hopefully NOT from me) as low priorities in her world. In talking with her about these sacrifices, of course, it's all about financial independence, etc...


This is unacceptable IMO and I would put a hammer down. Is she a mother or a working bee? It seems like she doesn't really want to be a mother AT ALL.

I would literally calculate next 2-3 weeks in hours. How much time she works and how much time she contributes to the family. Subtract sleep hours and figure out the %.

I have a feeling both you and her are in for a shock once you get some totals going......



HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Does anyone have suggestions of how to better deal, or cope, with this?
> 
> Lastly, her behavior in this way seems to quite possibly be slowly increasing. Her drinking in the last five years (that I know of) has increased from a weekend glass of wine to 2 or 3 glasses a day. Strangely too, in the last two years, her sex drive went from zero to insatiable. I'm not complaining about this! ... but there is subtle behavior that I'm not cutting it for her (topic for another thread I suppose).


Here is what I would do, in this priority:

Alcohol is your primary issue with her IMO. Address this one head on and tell her this is unacceptable and HAS to stop right away. This will not only disable her from thinking clearly when she is out and about traveling around other men, but can also disable her from self control (which she already clearly lacks). At this time, I would also talk about boundaries in your relationship as well, just go over them and make sure you 2 are clear on this (you do have those defined right?).

Second, it's balance of life and work. I would demand that she changes her job right away and gets one that doesn't require travel. Truth is, you and your children need her at home each and every day/night/weekend. Although occasional outing with friends/business is fine, her current situation is on the extreme. Talk to her about companies using employees for "slave" labor aka "working WAY more than 40 hours a week and not getting paid for it". I know employers love her, but clearly it has a devastating effect on your family.

Just tell her that you feel like family is not her priority and she needs to MAKE it her priority or you will have to get a divorce.

Both of these should be deal breakers on your end. 

This seems really strange to me, I'm not sure what kind of person doesn't want to be with their family/loved ones? 

Be prepared for worse case scenario. Do you have access to her email/phone etc? It would be interesting to see what she has been up to during her travels/business trips.......it sounds really sketchy........

Watch her face/body language/level of anger VERY closely when you talk to her. This will pinpoint to YOU exactly where she is getting defensive and what you should be looking into.......

I would never EVER accept a workaholic as a partner. I'm in a marriage/relationship for companionship/family. If a person wants to WORK more than be with me/family........they can work, but I won't be waiting for them at home.

Sorry


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## cjl (Jan 24, 2014)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> My wife is traveling this week (and does so frequently) and warned ahead of time she'd be hard pressed to call or email. The warning wasn't really needed as it is her usual behavior.
> *This is a big red flag to me. Sounds like she wants uninterrupted time away from you and no discussion about it when she is back.**I think it's b.s..*
> 
> So, I guess I shouldn't be hurt that that is the case. But, I am. With this last trip, her travel included the weekend and she actually had Sunday at a hotel with little obligation except for hanging out with a male coworker (yes, I'm a bit jealous).* No way I would let this fly again. It hurt you, enough said.
> ...


*Drinking would be a huge problem and is for me when trips are involved. My wife and I boundary on that is she will only have 1 drink if I'm not with her. *


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

jerry123 said:


> Don't ever and I mean ever ask her if there's another man.
> 
> And woman don't cheat just because you're a SAHD. I've seen plenty of SAHM's that cheat on hard working provider husbands.
> 
> ...


I've been the SAHD for almost a decade and like you, in that time I've brought in plenty of earnings (used work a bit during kid naps and early mornings and now during school hours). I believe like others have pointed out that if she isn't or haven't had a/an affair(s) she seems headed for it...

When I lay down my expectations of what she needs to contribute to the home, and my disappointments/anger when she fails it's almost like a 'user': She's 'deeply' apologetic, better for time and then gradually sinks back into the routine where family & husband are least in her mind. In fact, I'll have to look at my join date... that was a time of another trip where 'we' vanished from her thoughts. I didn't post but read threads here, confronted her at the time and things improved for a while.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm pretty sure EVERY relationship deals with "good for a while > goes back to old ways" type of a deal.

Tell her how serious you are this time, lay the hammer down maybe?


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

DoF said:


> I'm pretty sure EVERY relationship deals with "good for a while > goes back to old ways" type of a deal.
> 
> Tell her how serious you are this time, lay the hammer down maybe?


Agreed... And, with a little introspection, I had laid down the hammer after her last low-contact trip and then slowly dropped my guard and went mindlessly back to my 'enabling' (as others have rightly identified). And like an addict, we talk of life balance and for her to be more present there's always that next bonus, or possibility of career growth 'to help the family'.


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## cjl (Jan 24, 2014)

She may not be having an affair but I bet there has been some close calls. You may still have time to stop it. I think she is getting her emotional needs met by someone through her job and coming home to you for the physical sex. Some people think as long as I'm not having intercourse it's all good. I haven't done anything.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I wish I had your problems. My wife is a do nothing who won't have sex. I always wish I had a professional minded wife who has a managerial level job and can take some of the financial pressure off me. Any time you want to trade, let me know!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This is a pretty serious problem in your marriage and her job is harming the husband and kids she tells herself she is working "for".

She has selfishly exited the marriage. The odd behavior is sex drive which seems to be aimed at you. The normal explanation for this is that something or someone other than you is amping up her sex drive and you are an available penis. 

But the thing is this is not something you discuss so much with your wife. It's all about you realizing that this is not a marriage in your opinion, and you deciding that in your life you will tolerate only a marriage as you define it.

Once you step up mentally (gaining confidence by knowing that your marriage is in serious trouble and your kids are being neglected and mistreated by their mother... i.e. you have "nothing" to lose).... Then it becomes about defining standards and offering your wife the choice to be part of the marital definition that you define.

Here is a weak vs strong conversation.

Weak: Wife, I'm really mad that you went away and didn't call me. Boo Hoo. Result: short term change, but she loses respect for you and gets closer to cheating in her head.

Strong: Wife, your are neglecting your family. If things don't change you will find us gone in the very near future. What I expect is you home every night at 5:30, no more trips, and your family and marriage come before your job. And if this job cannot accomodat you being a wife and a mother, then you find a job that can or you quit altogether. Why don't you think about what you want in life and let me know by the end of the day.

Once you have your answer, then you have your answer. Let her be free to decide. But if she is not particpating in the marriage, then she should bear some serious consequences for that decision.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Strong: Wife, your are neglecting your family. If things don't change you will find us gone in the very near future. What I expect is you home every night at 5:30, no more trips, and your family and marriage come before your job. And if this job cannot accomodat you being a wife and a mother, then you find a job that can or you quit altogether. Why don't you think about what you want in life and let me know by the end of the day.


I would do this in a heart beat!

Good advice


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I wish I had your problems. My wife is a do nothing who won't have sex. I always wish I had a professional minded wife who has a managerial level job and can take some of the financial pressure off me. Any time you want to trade, let me know!


I certainly feel for you on the lack of sex... only until recently I was in the same boat: never any interest regardless of the romantic situations I would set up and favors I would offer. There would be months that would pass and nothing - always on her terms (sound familiar to the current state affairs? lol) - it didn't change when I forced us into the counseling on it either. I finally, stopped all the romance and turned away from it. Only then did her interest comeback (slightly - and I'm not talking about the latest turn of events).

Thanks for the note.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Hicks said:


> This is a pretty serious problem in your marriage and her job is harming the husband and kids she tells herself she is working "for".
> 
> She has selfishly exited the marriage. The odd behavior is sex drive which seems to be aimed at you. The normal explanation for this is that something or someone other than you is amping up her sex drive and you are an available penis.
> 
> ...


You're right in that I've only done the 'weak' approach so far.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

An update: Well, I believe I've narrowed it down to alcohol... while the drinking had gradually increased to the point that I generally wasn't keeping it in the house I expect the number of glasses during work related outings and trips were bigger than I would have guessed. Further, she really didn't exhibit much in the way of alcoholic symptoms until:

A during a recent short overnight she actually called to say good night. I was a little concerned because while we talked she sounded so 'up'/excited, repeated herself a bit and even slurred a word or two. BUT, when she got home the next day she did not remember she had called....

more in a bit.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> An update: Well, I believe I've narrowed it down to alcohol... while the drinking had gradually increased to the point that I generally wasn't keeping it in the house I expect the number of glasses during work related outings and trips were bigger than I would have guessed. Further, she really didn't exhibit much in the way of alcoholic symptoms until:
> 
> A during a recent short overnight she actually called to say good night. I was a little concerned because while we talked she sounded so 'up'/excited, repeated herself a bit and even slurred a word or two. BUT, when she got home the next day she did not remember she had called....
> 
> more in a bit.


That Sunday she was at the hotel with male coworker- did you ask her how she spent the day? What she did....


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> That Sunday she was at the hotel with male coworker- did you ask her how she spent the day? What she did....


Yes... A:'slept in, relaxed in the sun, went to dinner, that was it - didn't drink more than 2 glasses....'


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

So, I 'caught her' and she confessed to being embarrassed and I laid it out that it was a problem and she shut me down by saying she was quitting all drink - end of story. I said a few more things, all sincerely supportive. She refuses to discuss it anymore. I'm curious how many pre-alcoholics really can go cold-turkey successfully. So far she's managed a couple of days.

I think she resents getting caught (by having actually called while traveling) so I'm going to guess she won't in the future. I want to make this a boundary requirement that she must call every night - but will that just cause her to further bury her actions - push her further to escalate poor behavior on the road? I'm guessing so.

Should I reach out to a trusted co-worker to help get alcohol out of her office (which I know exists)?

At this point, I expect it is very possible she's had a dalliance but that is secondary in mind to the alcohol...


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Yes... A:'slept in, relaxed in the sun, went to dinner, that was it - didn't drink more than 2 glasses....'


Did she do the sunbathing with and go to dinner with the guy?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> At this point, I expect it is *almost a sure thing* she's had a dalliance but that is secondary in mind to the alcohol...


Fixed that for you. Booze and affairs go hand in hand. Don't bring either one up again. VAR her car and put a PI on her next trip. It's all classic behavior and it's been done to death.

Is she the high earner?

ETA: Holy sh1t, you're a SAHD!


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> So, I 'caught her' and she confessed to being embarrassed and I laid it out that it was a problem and she shut me down by saying she was quitting all drink - end of story. I said a few more things, all sincerely supportive. She refuses to discuss it anymore


Dear HomeFront

From the way that conversation went, it's clear who wears the pants in the family. 

I'm just wondering why you allowed her not to contact you during her business trips for so long. Clearly it bothers you. A phonecall is not a lot to ask. Logic says that if you have time to sunbathe, you have time to call. If you have time to have a drink at the bar, you have time to call. How long does a 3 minute conversation take anyway? Mobile phones are all the rage aren't they? An able business woman can't keep a phone battery charged? 

Sorry, your situation is so frustrating. Now you are all wrapped up in her drinking problems. I don't want to be insensitive, but I suspect part of your wife is relieved to have that distract your attention from the other issues you don't know about. Oh Wait, she won't talk about the drinking either. WTF? From an outsider point of view, your wife is giving you nothing. 

Another poster here had it right, your wife doesn't contact you because she doesn't want to. They are also right about the sex anomaly. Someone else is marinating her, and she comes home to you to roast - for now. 

You have to get to the bottom of her issues and do some serious line drawing in the sand buddy or things might go south pretty quickly if not already.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> At this point, I expect it is very possible she's had a dalliance but that is secondary in mind to the alcohol...


?!?!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> At this point, I expect it is very possible she's had a dalliance but that is secondary in mind to the alcohol...


We are wired so differently.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Did she do the sunbathing with and go to dinner with the guy?


Good question. But, I'm not going to ask about that day any further - she may not remember and I don't want to drive anything further underground than it is....


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Fixed that for you. Booze and affairs go hand in hand. Don't bring either one up again. VAR her car and put a PI on her next trip. It's all classic behavior and it's been done to death.
> 
> Is she the high earner?
> 
> ETA: Holy sh1t, you're a SAHD!


Yep - staying quiet with ears and eyes open. Ah, not quite a sahd but enough of one


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> We are wired so differently.


Very possibly - but on your (and a few others) good council I've pretty much ruled out anything ongoing in the EA/PA realm. So if something has happened it's in the past and outside of uncovering (for now). So, in the mean time, my job is setting the line on NO drinking and calling when traveling... and keeping my ears open


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Yes... A:'slept in, relaxed in the sun, went to dinner, that was it - didn't drink more than 2 glasses....'


Sounds like she gets near-constant vacations and partying while you get to raise her kids.

"Wife, this marriage isn't working for me. I married you and had kids with you to raise them with you. If I'm going to raise them without you while you go relax by the pool or "work" then I just don't see myself being happy in this situation."

Then say nothing, walk away.

Go do your own thing. Go away for the weekend. Be out as much as you can. Do this for a few weeks.

If her behaviour changes, reinforce the positive.

If it doesn't, it's time to make some hard choices.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Yep - staying quiet with ears and eyes open. Ah, not quite a sahd but enough of one


It doesn't take much of a disparity with the wife outearning the H to get the full SAHD treatment from many Ws. What's really galling is how many times the W suggests this and after a year or two, she can't keep up the attraction to the H and then she goes wayward.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

No offense but short of very expensive PIs or texts indicating otherwise... She could be doinking anything on these trips.

Ill go out on a limb and guestimate her IQ is above the median and thus could be quite hard to catch.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Why can't she take you with her when she "travels"?
(get a babysitter) Would that cramp her style with the OM?

When do you get your "vacations" without calling home, going out with other women? How would she like to change places?

She may be drinking to help her with the guilt from her affairs.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> It doesn't take much of a disparity with the wife outearning the H to get the full SAHD treatment from many Ws. What's really galling is how many times the W suggests this and after a year or two, she can't keep up the attraction to the H and then she goes wayward.


Yup. And this is why after he makes your concerns clear he should go and spend a LOT of time out of the house.

When she's home, she gets the kids every night and weekend while he goes and does awesome manly things.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Very possibly - but *on your (and a few others) good council I've pretty much ruled out anything ongoing in the EA/PA realm*. So if something has happened it's in the past and outside of uncovering (for now). So, in the mean time, my job is setting the line on NO drinking and calling when traveling... and keeping my ears open


Since I could not find anything about that, I wonder what you have done, and why you come to that conclusion. Could you give some details?

The drinking thing seems to me really secondary to the EA/PA thing. That would endanger your marriage directly, drinking more on the long term. And I do not see excessive drinking here.

Are you being played by her, and by yourself???


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> Sounds like she gets near-constant vacations and partying while you get to raise her kids.
> ...


Not really - she is always heads down for what I can see - but are the dinners and receptions, etc.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> It doesn't take much of a disparity with the wife outearning the H to get the full SAHD treatment from many Ws. What's really galling is how many times the W suggests this and after a year or two, she can't keep up the attraction to the H and then she goes wayward.


I think you have something here.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> No offense but short of very expensive PIs or texts indicating otherwise... She could be doinking anything on these trips.
> 
> Ill go out on a limb and guestimate her IQ is above the median and thus could be quite hard to catch.


lol 'doinking'.... anyway, I would agree and also I convinced if anything it's not an on-going thing so even tougher to find.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> Yup. And this is why after he makes your concerns clear he should go and spend a LOT of time out of the house.
> 
> When she's home, she gets the kids every night and weekend while he goes and does awesome manly things.


I'm considering just that - however, I expect she'll just hire it (sitting) out and I'm torn putting my kids in that place. Then again, its been a while for poker night and deer hunting!


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Since I could not find anything about that, I wonder what you have done, and why you come to that conclusion. Could you give some details?
> 
> The drinking thing seems to me really secondary to the EA/PA thing. That would endanger your marriage directly, drinking more on the long term. And I do not see excessive drinking here.
> 
> Are you being played by her, and by yourself???


Well - she's never been protective of her phone, etc. and the little investigations I've made show absolutely nothing. So, I expect my thread title is pretty dead-on in that she lives for work and the boost from professional (for now) relationships and the power of her earnings.

The drinking I think most likely due to the stress of the work - what a cycle....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

So, have you done anything?

Fortune favours the bold, man.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

I wonder if she's drinking from the stress of her job & being the majority breadwinner in your family.
Male or female, being the majority or sole breadwinner is a lot of stress & often people don't know how to deal with the stress in a healthy manner.
Could be so also resents having to be the one to go out & support her family.
Unless she is honest with herself as to why she is drinking so much, she will not be able to stop, as she is not dealing with the root cause of her drinking triggers & drive to drink to excess.
Sidenote: why are you not working? Are you providing all of the childcare & are your children still under school age?


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Most women don't respect SAHDs. Not fair, but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tennisstar said:


> Most women don't respect SAHDs. Not fair, but true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd say it a little differently.

A lot of women want to respect SAHDs and maybe even think they do, but the fact of the matter is that it can seriously negatively impact dominant/submissive roles in the relationship, and hence attraction.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

I agree with the posters who've mentioned that you should get a job.

Its not just for the money...its because one of the casualties of having one working person taking all the financial burden and one person staying home is that its hard for the partners to identify with each other sometimes.

One of the greatest things about my partner is that we're both professionals with demanding careers and when I come home, I can explain the details of what I'm dealing with at work and he can give me excellent feedback and I do the same for him.

If he didn't work (and believe me, I would *NEVER* be with someone who didn't work), I think we'd be ok but I would truly be missing the person that can provide the realistic, fact-based feedback that I love having.

Maybe working is a chance for you two to start relating to each other better since you seem to be having problems. Sounds like she needs to spend a little more time at home and a little less time working anyway.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> I'd say it a little differently.
> 
> A lot of women want to respect SAHDs and maybe even think they do, but the fact of the matter is that it can seriously negatively impact dominant/submissive roles in the relationship, and hence attraction.


:iagree:... while I might be over sensitized of late - I see a growing dominance fight between us: from the laughable trivial to down-right humiliation in front of other men.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Nikita2270 said:


> I agree with the posters who've mentioned that you should get a job.
> 
> Its not just for the money...its because one of the casualties of having one working person taking all the financial burden and one person staying home is that its hard for the partners to identify with each other sometimes.
> 
> ...


Actually, I've never not worked and still command extremely high compensation when I do. After our kids arrived, I just made the decision to give my W the gift of continuing in her career while I scaled mine back. I am an equal in all things professional.

That said, I do think she has - misguided or not - started to perceive my value is diminished as evidenced by her actions and subtle choice words now and again. 

Of course, talking about it with her yields expected denials and I've come to consider that talking is just talking and as you wrote: having (making) her have more time at home is a necessary step for her to appreciate it. (Besides, it was her choice too that we create a family).


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> :iagree:... while I might be over sensitized of late - I see a growing dominance fight between us: from the laughable trivial to down-right humiliation in front of other men.


Yeah, it's just inevitable. Even happened to me when I was in grad school and wife was working FT. Another guy I know had a pretty good sized inheritance and was laid off almost simultaneously. The economy was on the down trend in his field, so he decided to take about six months before finding another job in order to finish some car projects. His wife, who never worked or even had kids, threatened him with divorce. I could probably come up with dozens of these, if I spent time recalling more.

It's the nature of the male female relationship.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> So, have you done anything?
> 
> Fortune favours the bold, man.


Confronted W three times on each of three topics as they happened (travel silence/escapism, drinking, public 'put downs' - a new thing I've realized that has been a growing behavior of hers).

Most likely, I was a little too emotional but prior "confrontations" certainly didn't draw attention and in fact she claimed no recollection! .... it was all new to her.

Anyway, the boundaries have been clearly set on all fronts and now its just a matter staying vigilant, having her on the home front more...


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Quick update: After setting boundaries, W's behavior on getting home and 'being' here when home have totally turned around. Overnights and trips have been canceled so won't know how that'll turn out for awhile. She hasn't stayed dry as promised initially but has kept (to my knowledge) to just 1/2 glasses a week in my presence.

W and I are still struggling with power sharing but no public putdowns. Date nights are awkward somehow. She did rage at me last week about hurting her 10yrs ago (not knowing she was depressed and crying when alone).

While I flirt with her and stay interested but 'even', sex has dropped to nothing since setting the boundary (though there's a bit of flirting back from W).


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> W and I are still struggling with power sharing but no public putdowns. Date nights are awkward somehow.
> 
> While I flirt with her and stay interested but 'even', sex has dropped to nothing since setting the boundary (though there's a bit of flirting back from W).


The public put down is a manifestation of her lack of respect for you. There seems to be a lot of resentment on her part that you dared to make a stand. This is by no means over. Women don't have sex with men whom they don't respect, hence your lack thereof. 

I think that you have to change your present situation of your wife being the main bread winner in the family. It's damaging your marriage greatly, maybe permanently. Use the last of your leverage with her to make this change. If you continue the status quo, I can't see this going well for you. I mean a wife who doesn't respect you, who feels obliged to endure your company and doesn't want to have sex with you. What kind of existence is that? 

You should be mentally prepared to leave the marriage. I say that because to some degree, your wife has checked out already and is plodding along for whatever reason. 

If I had to guess, I'd say that your wife is drinking heavily to cope with the fact that she sees better possibilities and validation associated with her work and is bored / fed up with you. She might be reluctant to leave because you have done nothing to justify it or maybe because of the kids, Whatever.

But something has to change or you are finished as her husband.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Confronted W three times on each of three topics as they happened (travel silence/escapism, drinking, public 'put downs' - a new thing I've realized that has been a growing behavior of hers).
> 
> Most likely, I was a little too emotional but prior "confrontations" certainly didn't draw attention and in fact she claimed no recollection! .... it was all new to her.
> 
> Anyway, the boundaries have been clearly set on all fronts and now its just a matter staying vigilant, having her on the home front more...


You be gone more. If you don't work outside the house, get a really macho hobby.

But, I recommend highly your decision to scale back your career for the sake of yours. I've rarely seen this work out well.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Quick update: After setting boundaries, W's behavior on getting home and 'being' here when home have totally turned around. Overnights and trips have been canceled so won't know how that'll turn out for awhile. She hasn't stayed dry as promised initially but has kept (to my knowledge) to just 1/2 glasses a week in my presence.
> 
> W and I are still struggling with power sharing but no public putdowns. Date nights are awkward somehow. She did rage at me last week about hurting her 10yrs ago (not knowing she was depressed and crying when alone).
> 
> While I flirt with her and stay interested but 'even', sex has dropped to nothing since setting the boundary (though there's a bit of flirting back from W).


OK, fantastic!

But beware man, pendulums that swing quickly swing back just as fast and even harder.

Be very, very careful and very, very firm.

Do not be the "nice guy" anymore. Ever. Even when you have weak moments -- that she will be testing you on.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for all the support, advice and opinions everyone! Here's a (what I feel like anyway) really stupid thought: Should I just set the rule that we abstain from sex for X days/weeks? 

It just seems like one more area for conflict and control issues. Personally, I hate & resent the ambiguity of when/if she'll be in the mood and the number of times I can seduce her is incredibly rare. 

It's a tough road I've currently picked "available, interested but gentlemanly" and I find it (as always) frustrating beyond belief and would love the easy way of just saying not this month. But would that backfire?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Homefront:

what are these "public putdowns" you mention? can you give an example? The next time one of these occurrs I suggest you remind her - publically - that she is a drunk, and that drunks don't know what they're saying half the time. I don't know if that would pass the "test" she is giving you, per se, but it might pass your own test.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Should I just set the rule that we abstain from sex for X days/weeks?


No. Initiate sex when you want sex, don't when you don't.
If you get a firm no then go do something awesome with a smile on your face.


HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> It just seems like one more area for conflict and control issues.


Yup.


HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Personally, I hate & resent the ambiguity of when/if she'll be in the mood and the number of times I can seduce her is incredibly rare.


So stop seducing her and start initiating what you want.
"Wife, take your clothes off."
"No."
"Ok, I'll be at the gym."
------
(you start taking her clothes off)
"Stop it, we're not having sex!"
"Ok, no problem. I'm taking the kids to the park."
------
"Wife, I left something sexy on the bed for you to put on."
"No! What makes you think I'll have sex with you?"
"Because a marriage is a sexual relationship. I guess you don't agree. You've given me a lot to think about, I'll be at the pub."



HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> It's a tough road I've currently picked "available, interested but gentlemanly" and I find it (as always) frustrating beyond belief and would love the easy way of just sayinga not this month. But would that backfire?


The only right thing in my opinion is interested.
If she's not interested you not be available or gentlemanly.

Classical conditioning is what it is. Reward what you want, don't reward negative behaviour by being gentlemanly.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Homefront:
> 
> what are these "public putdowns" you mention? can you give an example? The next time one of these occurrs I suggest you remind her - publically - that she is a drunk, and that drunks don't know what they're saying half the time. I don't know if that would pass the "test" she is giving you, per se, but it might pass your own test.


Actually incredibly stupid things (without alcohol lol): from questioning what I'll order at a restaurant to "stepping-in"/over-ruling (without waiting to listen) when I'm asking questions on such things as a hotel room on check-in, etc.. It's just crazy nor consistent. She's only been drunk once that I know of (and I wasn't there).


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> :lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
> 
> Funny thing about Classical Conditioning, it only works when the reward carries value to the Subject. *This will never work on the OP's wife as she prefers her time alone, away from hubby and the kids*, so she can work.
> 
> ...


Thank you Lila and I agree 100%. But, I liked Marduk's premise (mixed with a little twist/moderation of my own - for the very points you made). As you note, sex is a symptom and my vision is regain priority back in her life and I suspect all aspects of our relationship would improve. 

Over the years, and increasingly so in the last couple, I've tried calmly talking about my expectations (with agreements quickly forgotten), setting limits, sadly fighting with her on occasion when they're broken, keeping up as - her work permits - on couple time, etc.. 

In your situation, what do you think would help raise my priority status in W's world from last place?


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> Homefrontdad,
> 
> Before I answer your question, could you tell us what your relationship was like prior to her return to work?


From pretty good coupledom in the early years, to strained early parenthood culminating in her return to work. We actually didn't need the funds then nor do we now really.

As a supporting, loving 21st C 'male' I supported what I thought would make her happy only to slowly realize it was/is emotional and physical exiting the home-side of raising a family and being a wife. Talking about it, calmly or otherwise, leads to agreements and/or acknowledgement that last a month at most.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> As a supporting, loving 21st C 'male' I supported what I thought would make her happy


There are times where above comes back to hit you in the ass.

Don't support her and you are in the dog house.

Support her and you are in the dog house anyways.

If your relationship is suffering and it's mostly due to work....and you guys are well off and it's not a need.....it's pretty clear what needs to change/happen.

She needs to stop working.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Lila said:


> I, as a strong minded, working wife and mother, find this new "Alpha"/Machismo trend disturbing. The most successful marriages are partnerships where the husband and wife love and respect each other unconditionally. Rewarding what one spouse believes to be "good" behavior is NOT unconditional love. "I love you but only if you do XYZ which make ME happy".


While agreeing with much of what you wrote, "unconditional" love is a fairy tale. No one stays married because of unconditional love and those that do all too often are deeply troubled.

Marriage is all about "good" behavior. If my wife's behavior to me was not good, I would not stay in the marriage for long and her the same. 

Here, she clearly does not respect him and has no interest in meeting his needs. If that remains unchanged, is he obligated to continue his "unconditional" love? If so, where is her obligation in this?

I am not much for the advice to demand she strip. But I do think that he needs to be more direct and start taking care of himself. If she is not willing to look after his needs, he has to do so and that will mean less attention to her needs.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Tall Average Guy said:


> While agreeing with much of what you wrote, "unconditional" love is a fairy tale. No one stays married because of unconditional love and those that do all too often are deeply troubled.
> 
> Marriage is all about "good" behavior. If my wife's behavior to me was not good, I would not stay in the marriage for long and her the same.
> 
> ...



Good advice, but personally in bold should be replaced with divorce.

Less attention in marriage from both sides (or one) will lead to that anyways.....

Marriage requires hard work and attention to each other.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

DoF said:


> There are times where above comes back to hit you in the ass.
> 
> Don't support her and you are in the dog house.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the double edged sword. If things again slide back to playing single when traveling or the drinking returns to prior level I'm pulling my support on her career. I've made it perfectly clear (the question will be if she remembers it so).

I'm not confident on which side she'd land to be honest... it too is double edged: she quits and resents it ever after or she sides with career and I'm handling the collateral of our kids' scars.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

DoF said:


> Good advice, but personally in bold should be replaced with divorce.
> 
> Less attention in marriage from both sides (or one) will lead to that anyways.....
> *
> Marriage requires hard work and attention to each other*.


So true - and she thinks it taken care of with the $ she's bringing in. Honestly, the increased clarity [calmly given] to her is only stressing her out more so it too will kick back shortly I expect...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

$$$$ means NOTHING

Actually, it's no different than materialistic things.

IT'S ACTUALLY HARMFUL

we spend all of our time working to obtain it, once we have it....it takes more of our time using it/or spending it while ignoring the loved ones. In the end, money AND materialistic things are really worthless and don't really matter AT ALL.

To an extent of course


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

DoF said:


> Good advice, but personally in bold should be replaced with divorce.
> 
> Less attention in marriage from both sides (or one) will lead to that anyways.....
> 
> Marriage requires hard work and attention to each other.


My only quibble would be that it should be eventual divorce.

Start with focusing on your needs and less attention to hers, so that your words and actions align. But DoF is absolutely correct that divorce needs to be a realistic option.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> :lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
> 
> Funny thing about Classical Conditioning, it only works when the reward carries value to the Subject. This will never work on the OP's wife as she prefers her time alone, away from hubby and the kids, so she can work.
> 
> ...


I think attitude/humour counts for a lot.

I've been living this now for about 3-4 years and it's been working out very well.

In dating, it also worked out very well.

I don't buy sex = symptom. Sometimes sex IS the problem. Running around the hamster wheel trying to make a woman happy isn't going to suddenly make her want to have sex with you.

Now, NOT making her happy can make her NOT want to have sex with you, sure.

But I have found directness and a touch of neanderthal to work very, very well, thank you very much.

By the way, unconditional love and respect is fiction.

Would you love and respect your husband if he abused you?

Lack of affection in a marriage I consider to be abuse.

Would you love and respect your husband if he cheated on you?

Of course not.

Love does not equal attraction and neither equals respect.

They are related but not equivalent. I've had plenty of sexual relationships that contained neither love nor respect.

I've had marriages with love and respect and no sex. And on and on.

The fact is, in my experience, and in many men's experience, a man that stands up and takes/demands what he wants is sexy. A man that owns and accepts his sexuality is sexy. A man that takes charge in the world and in the bedroom is sexy. As long as it's not done in an overbearing way and as long as you are disconnected from the outcome and respect the word "No" and not be whiney about it.

I've had two marriages where the wife CLAIMED that the lack of sex was because of the dishes or the fight we had two years ago or some such thing. Chasing what she CLAIMED were the root causes got me less than nowhere -- it got me in a subordinate position where I had to continually please her to try to get some breadcrumb of affection. Not sexy. The ONLY thing that worked was upping attraction and being direct and clear about what I wanted.

Again, there is no unconditional love unless you're talking kids in my opinion. I've seen (and been) guys that reward their wives for NOT giving them what they want... because they bought into the "lack of what they want is the symptom and not the problem" work of fiction.

Therefore, if I give my wife more jewelry, that will make her want to have sex with me more...

If I do more housework, my wife will want to have sex with me more...

If I'm cool with her being gone all the time partying that will make her want to have sex with me more...

Etc.

WRONG.

If you reward behaviour that you don't want, you're at least subconsciously programming that response. If I give my wife shiny things when she withdraws, it will (at least subconsciously) make her want to withdraw more.

If she goes out partying all the time and I act all cool with everything and pick up the slack at home, what does that tell her?

Etc.

Instead, a leader makes a choice.

As a leader in my marriage, I encourage behaviour that is positive to that marriage. The challenge, of course, is to not be a **** about it and only reward what's good for yourself, but to stand back and consider what is good for the family as a whole... of which I am a big part -- so keeping me happy is actually integral to the happiness of the marriage. As is keeping her happy.

And when I started doing that, I realized how much every woman in my life has always been rewarding behaviour that they want and not rewarding behaviour that they don't... and doing it far better than I used to. No more.

Oh, and real world advice for guys -- you *don't get what you don't ask for*. I'm married to a very, very strong willed educated woman. In fact, both my marriages were. It's kind of what I'm attracted to. I may get the occasional anger directed at me for making some crazy demand on the spot... and then lo and behold, it will work, or it will happen at some later time.

Being willing to stand in the face of that strong willed educated woman's power and ask for what you want... well, just don't be surprised when you sometimes get it.

You're very, very right about not doing it overnight. You need to ramp up going for what you want slowly. And you need to sustain it over a long period of time.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> In your situation, what do you think would help raise my priority status in W's world from last place?


I know you weren't asking me, but what would make you the best you can be?

In your own eyes?

Make a list. Start with the thing you're worst at. Get momentum and keep moving. Improve little by little every day.

In 3 months you'll see/feel the difference. In 6 you'll be surprising everyone around you. In a year you'll never go back.

Once you've increased your own status in your own mind, the world will match that expectation. Either she'll come along for the ride or she won't -- it's her choice.

But if she doesn't, at that point, you'll be in a great position to make some tough decisions.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old are your children?

Read Jerry123 or Bagdon' threads

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Thanks for all the support, advice and opinions everyone! Here's a (what I feel like anyway) really stupid thought: Should I just set the rule that we abstain from sex for X days/weeks?
> 
> It just seems like one more area for conflict and control issues. Personally, I hate & resent the ambiguity of when/if she'll be in the mood and the number of times I can seduce her is incredibly rare.
> 
> It's a tough road I've currently picked "available, interested but gentlemanly" and I find it (as always) frustrating beyond belief and would love the easy way of just saying not this month. But would that backfire?


I have seen the way you talk about these issue many times on TAM with the extreme 'lean over backwards' 'doormat' posters.

The verbalisation indicates rationalizing very unmanly behavior. Your wife (and others) will react to that negative.

If you change the way you speak and think, your situation will change.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> Marduk,
> 
> Different strokes for different folks. It sounds like the third time was the charm for you and I'm happy to hear that you discovered a system 4 years ago that works for you and your spouse. I can only speak from my experience based on my personality and my one and only marriage. I'm 16 years into it we're still going strong. Like any other couple, we've had ups and downs but always managed to get through them better than we were before. Ours is an equal partnership, there is no subordinate. We vowed to love, cherish, and honor each other without the use of what I consider Pavlovian manipulation. I think there in lies my argument with the positive reinforcement thinking you mentioned in your post.
> 
> ...


LOL, I think we're actually saying much the same thing with language that comes at it from both directions.

If you only knew my wife...

Anyway, what I meant is reclaiming your own power. For guys like me who are reformed unsexy "nice guys" it's a touchy point 

My point was to not provide negative reinforcement. If you gifted your husband with wild 'n crazy sex and a porche every time he was a jerk... how long before he'd become a jerk all the time?

It's human nature.

I used to reward negative behaviour thinking that I would then get positive responses because magic.

Well, there's no magic.



Lila said:


> So should a woman stop "rewarding" her husband with say sex, if he's not meeting her needs outside the bedroom? After all, she doesn't want to reward bad behaviour, right? :scratchhead:


Absolutely. And this has been the case in 100% of my relationships... glad to hear it isn't you!

I've never, ever had a LTR woman have sex with me if I wasn't meeting her other needs.

ONS/flings/FWB aside of course.

My point is that something needs to give and there needs to be a serious power swing for things to rebalance. In my experience this has looked a lot like "you're not the nice guy I married" (actual quote) and becoming more neanderthal. But it has led to a _lot_ more sex and a _lot_ more respect and balance in the relationship.



Lila said:


> Personally, I think mutual respect, open communication, trust, sharing responsibilities, and yes, physical attraction to each other have made our marriage a success for 16 years. I don't think we'd last a year if my husband started in on me with the positive reinforcement "training".


I think that's where the goal is to end up. Reinforcing positive behaviour isn't training, in my mind it's showing the person how you want to be treated... and how awesomely you'll get treated in return.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'm still on my journey, so trust me that I'm all ears.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

What bothers me is the number of questions left unanswered on this thread....

So I have one that hasnt been asked, lets see if you answer it.. what kind of work does your wife do?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Lila said:


> Based on the information you've provided, it sounds like parenthood was the trigger. Has your wife ever admitted to regretting having children? Believe it or not, motherhood is not a natural instinct in all women. Some are not cut out for it but feel it's their "duty" to procreate. Even though they love their children dearly, they hate child rearing and feel trapped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lila

Well if she won't have sex with him, what if he asked her to sleep in some other room. Would that gain him some of her respect?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> I can't say whether it'll "gain him some of her respect" because I'm not the OP's wife. However, I'm sure it WILL get her attention, but only if he stands his ground and doesn't "forget" that he told her to sleep in some other room 3 nights ago.


I think something dramatic and unexpected needs to happen to shake people out of their comfort zone.

For me, it was shrugging my shoulders, texting some buddies, and heading out to a movie and a pub, instead of sitting there, stewing, and giving up all my power.

I think of it now in terms of "what awesome things can I be doing right now?"

If #1 at that moment is sex with my wife and that's a no-go, I move on to #2.

That way, no matter what, I win. And the more I win, the more she seems to win, too.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> ....But I have found directness and a touch of neanderthal to work very, very well, thank you very much.
> 
> ....The fact is, in my experience, and in many men's experience, a man that stands up and takes/demands what he wants is sexy. A man that owns and accepts his sexuality is sexy. A man that takes charge in the world and in the bedroom is sexy. As long as it's not done in an overbearing way and as long as you are disconnected from the outcome and respect the word "No" and not be whiney about it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Marduk, unfortunately I've found the above had pretty consistent negatives over the years (observing 'No', etc). Perhaps, other issues have been at play too so I'm not discounting it all - certainly the romantic novels W is now addicted too would correlate well with your post!


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> I know you weren't asking me, but what would make you the best you can be?
> 
> In your own eyes?
> 
> ...


Found and working on it!


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> How old are your children?
> 
> Read Jerry123 or Bagdon' threads
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


9 and 11 - started reading their threads...


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> Based on the information you've provided, it sounds like parenthood was the trigger. *Has your wife ever admitted to regretting having children? * ....
> 
> I agree with some of the others here that you have to start thinking of your marriage as a partnership where your wife is pulling her weight. She sees you as convenience in her life that she can ALWAYS count on to take care of the domestic responsibilities. If you want her to pick up some of the slack, you're going to have to *give her some slack to pick up*.
> 
> ...


Thanks Lila, [above] ... not in so many words but over the last few years I've found snippets in her words that would indicate it - certainly her actions say it loudly.

I've never been wishy washy but certainly have made myself a doormat and enabler.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I have seen the way you talk about these issue many times on TAM with the extreme 'lean over backwards' 'doormat' posters.
> 
> The verbalisation indicates rationalizing very unmanly behavior. Your wife (and others) will react to that negative.
> 
> If you change the way you speak and think, your situation will change.


Thank you SLL - think you have a great point. So far so good - but boy it's easy to slip back to old habits.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> What bothers me is the number of questions left unanswered on this thread....
> 
> So I have one that hasnt been asked, lets see if you answer it.. what kind of work does your wife do?


Hi Blossom, executive with many many people in her division.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Lila
> 
> Well if she won't have sex with him, what if he asked her to sleep in some other room. Would that gain him some of her respect?


... did that (long ago after her return to work and) and turned out to be a huge resentment towards me... If I recall, was created a huge fight, temporary sexual R and then return to normal roommate behavior over a month or two.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> I can't say whether it'll "gain him some of her respect" because I'm not the OP's wife. However, I'm sure it WILL get her attention, but only if he stands his ground and doesn't "forget" that he told her to sleep in some other room 3 nights ago.


lol... I didn't forget I guess but I was bought off for awhile...


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for the posts and supports. I figured I'd post a short update...

On a winning note! W is still coming home from work in time for dinner! She's willing to read the HNHN book I gave her (that had been suggested here) and work through them with me. Though, she's sounded a touch know-it all like she's been-there-done-that... All of it is walking on eggs, she's extremely conflict adverse, never cries or gets emotional short of a family death so I'm trying not going back to my 'old ways' of saying something that could be construed as negative.

'Things' I've 'detected' in the little bit of talks we have had she feels:
* Our kids should/could be left to 3rd party to raise. In a way, lessens my SAHD contribution and reduced earnings for it.
* I'm not enough of a 'man' for her... vague comment during a tender/candid moment about my ability in bed. Along those lines, she never lets me finish her (always impatient). AND, while unwilling to be oral (for me), brings up other things she's read about that we've not tried - yet when I've mentioned them later acts like it will never happen. Creating new power & controls???

Otherwise, on the paranoid front: I've never felt she's strayed but on the safe side I've looked around a bit and found oddities: An unanswered text from a guy saying he missed her. A strange email about (not from) a man to which she answered she couldn't talk about him. Old, late afternoon lunch receipts at old-time favorite restaurants near where she used to work but a distance from where she does not for a period just before she became unusually interested in sex.

Continuing with the boundaries, self improvement, differentiation while being loving and steady...


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## Air Texas (May 30, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> * I'm not enough of a 'man' for her... vague comment during a tender/candid moment about my ability in bed. Along those lines, she never lets me finish her (always impatient). AND, while unwilling to be oral (for me), brings up other things she's read about that we've not tried - yet when I've mentioned them later acts like it will never happen. Creating new power & controls???
> ...


That doesn't sound "tender" to me at all. There is no respect there. You have received some good advise on here and been thrown off the track by a few in my opinion. You need to "man up." My advise... Google "MMSL" stat.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Air Texas said:


> That doesn't sound "tender" to me at all. There is no respect there. You have received some good advise on here and been thrown off the track by a few in my opinion. You need to "man up." My advise... Google "MMSL" stat.


yeah she sounds really sweet!

Can you just leave the kids in an after school program and get a job. She probably does not respect you as a man with that apron on. lose it fast.

Sex and kinky new stuff? If she suggests it, just do it. Don't ask her for frigin permission. Example:
Her: "wow I read in Cosmo that anal sex is really exciting"
Later that night, you: "her it comes, baby!"


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> * I'm not enough of a 'man' for her... vague comment during a tender/candid moment about my ability in bed. Along those lines, she never lets me finish her (always impatient). AND, while unwilling to be oral (for me), brings up other things she's read about that we've not tried - yet when I've mentioned them later acts like it will never happen.


wow...what a cutting comment! nasty piece of work she is.

and you sure she's 'read' about them? what does she read, "Emasculation Monthly" or something?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

ReidWright said:


> what does she read, "Emasculation Monthly" or something?


Ball Crushers Anonymous?

BTW, good point, how would she KNOW that his penis is too small for orgasm if she has not tasted the goods somewhere else?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

would it really be that bad to piss her off by sticking up for yourself? e.g. how can you let any, vague or otherwise, comment on your bedroom abilities go without a sharp retort back at her on whether she can be trusted anymore and why. i.e. you'd hate to think of her as "a drunk and a wh0re" but she really needs to straighten up so you won't have to.....

never let your spouse get ahead of you in the 'devalue' game, if/when they decide to play it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> * I'm not enough of a 'man' for her... vague comment during a tender/candid moment about my ability in bed. Along those lines, she never lets me finish her (always impatient). AND, while unwilling to be oral (for me), brings up other things she's read about that we've not tried - yet when I've mentioned them later acts like it will never happen. Creating new power & controls???


One of the difficulties in wanting the truth is when you get it and don't like it. I agree her comment about you not being enough of a man are pretty harsh, but now you know.

Many women like it rougher in bed. They want a man who takes them. For some, it removes responsibility and allows them to let go during sex. Is it possible that she is trying to say this?



> Otherwise, on the paranoid front: I've never felt she's strayed but on the safe side I've looked around a bit and found oddities: An unanswered text from a guy saying he missed her. A strange email about (not from) a man to which she answered she couldn't talk about him. Old, late afternoon lunch receipts at old-time favorite restaurants near where she used to work but a distance from where she does not for a period just before she became unusually interested in sex.


Those sure look like red flags to me. How recently have any of these occurred? If not long ago, are you still checking on things?


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Air Texas said:


> That doesn't sound "tender" to me at all. There is no respect there. You have received some good advise on here and been thrown off the track by a few in my opinion. You need to "man up." My advise... Google "MMSL" stat.


Started reading it! Rather fun/funny... more in a later post.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> Ball Crushers Anonymous?
> 
> BTW, good point, how would she KNOW that his penis is too small for orgasm if she has not tasted the goods somewhere else?


the thought has crossed my mind (hence my continued monitoring) - and it was more of a comment about firmness than size.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP
> 
> would it really be that bad to piss her off by sticking up for yourself? e.g. how can you let any, vague or otherwise, comment on your bedroom abilities go without a sharp retort back at her on whether she can be trusted anymore and why. i.e. you'd hate to think of her as "a drunk and a wh0re" but she really needs to straighten up so you won't have to.....
> 
> never let your spouse get ahead of you in the 'devalue' game, if/when they decide to play it.


Thanks Nuke (and everybody) - actually I do stick up for myself and it just shuts her down. But as tall mentioned, I kinda asked for it - just trying to open up lines of communications to see what is with it all. I stayed calm, actually not insulted as I did ask essentially, and gave it to her a second time LOL.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> One of the difficulties in wanting the truth is when you get it and don't like it. I agree her comment about you not being enough of a man are pretty harsh, but now you know.
> 
> Many women like it rougher in bed. They want a man who takes them. For some, it removes responsibility and allows them to let go during sex. Is it possible that she is trying to say this?
> 
> ...


I think she's 'trying' to say a lot of things... but she hates fights and feels I'll stick up for myself. SO, I've staying incredibly even the last few weeks and it is opening up the lines (I guess).

In reading MMSL, I'm not that bad I think: same weight when we married (ok more to fat than muscle but abs are tight). All my hair, great posture and nice clothes. I'm just as thoughtful with compliments, flowers and dates. I make just as much as her when I can work - I have high ranking female friends (though I probably shouldn't have shared with her one bored me to death).

What I think its boiling down to is what others have said about SAHD: It alone deficits my ranking despite any and all positives I have or could attain.

BUT, continuing with MMSL - there is room for improvement (getting out more and leaving her on the front line while I pickup a number of sports, etc), never ever begging again about sex and letting just run off my back with a casual laugh. AND, laying down definitive plans for dates etc. that I won't let her over-ride.

Not so certain about HNHN - possibly just too beta LOL. Gotta love it Marduk!


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> One of the difficulties in wanting the truth is when you get it and don't like it. I agree her comment about you not being enough of a man are pretty harsh, but now you know.
> 
> Many women like it rougher in bed. They want a man who takes them. For some, it removes responsibility and allows them to let go during sex. Is it possible that she is trying to say this?
> 
> ...


Oh, and the flags. Man, they are subtle! The few remaining are up to about two years ago - before that who knows - I was fully trusting :/ I still think its a stretch (and TAM certainly has great examples of false hopes to the positive) but will keep my nose to the ground.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Yike Im not liking all those little red flags.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

Lila said:


> Homefrontdad, you mentioned your wife's addiction to romance novels. Have you ever read one of her books? She may not be able to express her secret fantasies but those books could give you an idea of the types of sexual activities she's interested in. Food for thought.


See, all you have to do get six pack abs, a chiseled chin, grow to 6' 4", then become a world class spy, and save the world, while composing her love songs, and having 12 hour long love making sessions. 

Or, go back in time, become an English Lord, walk around in an opened ruffly shirt in the heather fields, and sword fight a 100 guys for her hand in marriage.

I don't know why you guys here think women are so hard to please!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

OP

"not enough of a men" = I'm ****ing other guys to get "enough of a men" (especially based on the evidence you found).

start gathering ALL of the evidence you can find and think about installing spy software, PRONTO!!!!!

Dig deeper and you will confirm what I'm telling you (in time)


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Yike Im not liking all those little red flags.


... agreed. But too, they all could have reasonable explanations so I'm taking them in the best light until otherwise.... (e.g. it could just be that she's just not sharing the minutia of her work life so these tidbits look odd out of context).


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

Lila said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> "The truth will set you free....but first it'll p!ss you off."
> 
> ...


She may not like directing but when I take the lead I constantly get "blocked"... from recent advice - here and books - rather than try and talk it through I'm merely getting up (in a good natured way) and moving onto something else. We'll see how that approach works.

Yes, I read them. And I look for clues and advice with which she's unwilling to share with me -- RW is dead right: it's a tough road to mine what is doable from the fantasy tales.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

reidwright said:


> see, all you have to do get six pack abs, a chiseled chin, grow to 6' 4", then become a world class spy, and save the world, while composing her love songs, and having 12 hour long love making sessions.
> 
> Or, go back in time, become an english lord, walk around in an opened ruffly shirt in the heather fields, and sword fight a 100 guys for her hand in marriage.
> 
> I don't know why you guys here think women are so hard to please!


too funny!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> She may not like directing but when I take the lead I constantly get "blocked"... from recent advice - here and books - rather than try and talk it through I'm merely getting up (in a good natured way) and moving onto something else. We'll see how that approach works.
> 
> Yes, I read them. And I look for clues and advice with which she's unwilling to share with me -- RW is dead right: it's a tough road to mine what is doable from the fantasy tales.


HomeFront:

Are you sure your love for your wife isn't based on fantasy? a fantasy that she loves and respects you, or wants to or could in the future? she doesn't quite sound "truly horrible" but I think she might deserve honorable mention in that category.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

DoF said:


> OP
> 
> "not enough of a men" = I'm ****ing other guys to get "enough of a men" (especially based on the evidence you found).
> 
> ...


It is possible: She's pretty, outgoing, working around mostly male execs, etc. etc. 

Certainly there isn't anything that points to a current ongoing affair. Digging is made tough from the standpoint of a corporate laptop, private office desk phone (her cell continues to show 'clean' and she doesn't hide it) and she works in a city so a car VAR and GPS has shown nothing to date.

Short of any clear evidence to something improper I'll continue to work under premise she is faithful


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore (Sep 12, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> HomeFront:
> 
> Are you sure your love for your wife isn't based on fantasy? a fantasy that she loves and respects you, or wants to or could in the future? she doesn't quite sound "truly horrible" but I think she might deserve honorable mention in that category.


Nuke, I've certainly lived in a fantasy that W would grow sexually with me, retire early inhibitions and open up about herself... 

I'll hold off putting her in 'truly horrible' category since she's not posting her side. If she was, I'd bet she'd have plenty of entries about my failings. 

BUT, I expect she is fantasizing that if she just ignores my desires, avoids any intimate talk about our issues they'll just go away.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> It is possible: She's pretty, outgoing, working around mostly male execs, etc. etc.
> 
> Certainly there isn't anything that points to a current ongoing affair. Digging is made tough from the standpoint of a corporate laptop, private office desk phone (her cell continues to show 'clean' and she doesn't hide it) and she works in a city so a car VAR and GPS has shown nothing to date.
> 
> Short of any clear evidence to something improper I'll continue to work under premise she is faithful


Homefront:

you seem almost nonchalant regarding the possibility she may have cheated on you. perhaps that's a good thing. if you don't care you might end up making better decisions about your future than someone caught up in emotional trappings.
she sure seems like better ex-wife material than wife material.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Oh, and the flags. Man, they are subtle! The few remaining are up to about two years ago - before that who knows - I was fully trusting :/ I still think its a stretch (and TAM certainly has great examples of false hopes to the positive) but will keep my nose to the ground.


See, I did not think they were that subtle. 

I am also curious why, if you do trust her and think there are reasonable explanations, you raised them in the first place. Perhaps you are not as confident as your posts indicate?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> See, I did not think they were that subtle.
> 
> I am also curious why, if you do trust her and think there are reasonable explanations, you raised them in the first place. Perhaps you are not as confident as your posts indicate?


Constant belittling is a concern and lack of respect especially in front of others.
Put the kabosh on that.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> I certainly feel for you on the lack of sex... only until recently I was in the same boat: never any interest regardless of the romantic situations I would set up and favors I would offer. There would be months that would pass and nothing - always on her terms (sound familiar to the current state affairs? lol) - it didn't change when I forced us into the counseling on it either. I finally, stopped all the romance and turned away from it. Only then did her interest comeback (slightly - and I'm not talking about the latest turn of events).
> 
> Thanks for the note.



Umm...Anyone notice this ?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: workaholic wife blues*



warlock07 said:


> Umm...Anyone notice this ?


Lost on me.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And the sex stopped once she cut down on the drinking and OP laid down some boundaries


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> It is possible: She's pretty, outgoing, working around mostly male execs, etc. etc.
> 
> Certainly there isn't anything that points to a current ongoing affair. Digging is made tough from the standpoint of a corporate laptop, private office desk phone (her cell continues to show 'clean' and she doesn't hide it) and she works in a city so a car VAR and GPS has shown nothing to date.
> 
> Short of any clear evidence to something improper I'll continue to work under premise she is faithful


I understand but you have an AWFUL LOT of red flags. Unfortunately Im getting the impression only a PI or major fvck up on her part will show it. My impression is conferences and work trips. (I both publicly and privately ask a lot of logistical questions of many posters about red flagging and patterns. Im SCARY good at it. (Or just scary).

Ugh who was it... wife was nurse... LONG thread. Only found it AFTER they filed D. The suspected OM was the OM... ugh name running from me. Same idea. (No im not saying divorce.) Im saying same scenario.

Read ugh.... name.... gahhh!!!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> I understand but you have an AWFUL LOT of red flags. Unfortunately Im getting the impression only a PI or major fvck up on her part will show it. My impression is conferences and work trips. (I both publicly and privately ask a lot of logistical questions of many posters about red flagging and patterns. Im SCARY good at it. (Or just scary).
> 
> Ugh who was it... wife was nurse... LONG thread. Only found it AFTER they filed D. The suspected OM was the OM... ugh name running from me. Same idea. (No im not saying divorce.) Im saying same scenario.
> 
> Read ugh.... name.... gahhh!!!


Badcompany

The old gut feeling...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Badcompany
> 
> The old gut feeling...


The harder i chasedhis name the faster it ran.

Badco.

Nucking gets the super genius award of the day.


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> W is still coming home from work in time for dinner! She's willing to read the HNHN book I gave her (that had been suggested here) and work through them with me. Though, she's sounded a touch know-it all like she's been-there-done-that... All of it is walking on eggs, she's extremely conflict adverse, never cries or gets emotional short of a family death so I'm trying not going back to my 'old ways' of saying something that could be construed as negative.
> 
> 'Things' I've 'detected' in the little bit of talks we have had she feels:
> * Our kids should/could be left to 3rd party to raise. In a way, lessens my SAHD contribution and reduced earnings for it.
> ...


Dear Homefront,

I hate to be cruel my man, but nothing has really changed for you since you started posting has it? 

So your wife comes home for dinner on time. Big. F*cking. Deal. I would have thought that turning up on time for anybody is basic manners and respect, let alone a spouse. 

So she's told you to your face that you are not "man" enough for her. That there is probably the truth. 

Then there's all that other crap with the restaurant receipts and the unexplained "I miss you" text. You must know that there is something going on right? You know it's likely she replied to that text through other means right? Are you sure you are not being that ostrich with its head in the sand? 

From all the stuff you have written, it's obvious to an outsider that she's at least emotionally involved somewhere else. She's simply better at covering her tracks than you are at detecting them. Her actions scream that she is not into you anymore. The "Concessions" she has made appear to be more towards not rocking the boat rather than repairing her relationship with you. Neither prospect is any good for you. 

From my experience, having to walk on egg shells means that the relationship is finished. You are in danger of wasting years of your life being unfulfilled and putting up with crap. 

I think you crave stability and fear the unknown. It's easier for you to believe you can get what you want if you sacrifice enough. Believe me, it's just not worth it. 

I suspect that if you asked your wife for a divorce, she might be conflicted but she would say yes.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Thanks for the posts and supports. I figured I'd post a short update...
> 
> On a winning note! W is still coming home from work in time for dinner! She's willing to read the HNHN book I gave her (that had been suggested here) and work through them with me. Though, she's sounded a touch know-it all like she's been-there-done-that... All of it is walking on eggs, she's extremely conflict adverse, never cries or gets emotional short of a family death so I'm trying not going back to my 'old ways' of saying something that could be construed as negative.
> 
> ...


While reading your verbalisations it hits me that you sound astonishing like so many other doormats on the forums. That has seldom a good end, because a characteristic about them is that they love to hear themselves talk and reason (dream) instead of following the advice they get.

This all sounds way to gay for a woman to like. If not for an affair now, she will leave you later on.


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