# I've only had sex with my wife 2 times in the last 18 months



## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Hi all,

I just need some advice please. My wife & I have been together 9 years & married 5 years. Sex to start with was amazing, regular & trying all sorts of things. Over the years that past by to just normal straight forward sex which I don't mind at all. I understand that the start of a relationship is always full of excitement. The problem has been over the last 18 months where we have had sex twice. I try to initiate things but I get nothing in return. My wife loves to cuddle me, texts me when I'm out & calls me so I know she loves me but she has gone off sex. We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc.

After sex twice in the last 18 months I have had enough & I'm going to ask her outright what the issue is. I should have done it sooner but I know it will lead to her getting all anxious & shouting so have held back from doing so. I love my wife & want to be with her but cuddling her & seeing her get undressed each night then laying next to me to not be able to do anything is just torture now. I masturbate most days when I'm alone over photos of her which as I'm doing it makes me feel half crazy & half sad the fact I am married to this woman who used to love sex & now I'm having to masturbate over digital photos of her!

I'm very quiet whenever I'm with her now as deep down I'm angry with her & more than anything I'm hurt. It feels like I'm being rejected by her. I have given it more than a fair amount of time before breaching the subject & I've tried numerous things to have it thrown back in my face so I'm just tired now hence why I'm quiet with her (which I know makes things worse). I know she is unhappy in life right now & probably depressed a little but her not having any interest in me is just making me worse towards her & because of that our relationship is even worse. How is the best way to tackle talking to her? I probably only have 1 shot at this so want to make it count!


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

This is not a one shot and off conversation. You're right, you should have been talking about this for the last 18 months so that you would both understand what's going on. Are there medical issues, children, or other issues that interfere with sex? Why does she throw it back in your face? What does she say? Once you understand the real issue(s), then you can decide whether or not the marriage is fixable.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

The first thing you need to certainly know is: are you willing to continue living your life in a sexless marriage?
Yes. Then you can ask her what's going on for your knowledge and continue in your sexless marriage because the most likely explanation is that she's done with sex (at least with you) and the most she'll ever do is pity sex once or twice a year.
The other explanation is that she already is getting her sexual needs met by someone else (under not circumstances try to dismiss this possibility) because if you were to read the countless treads in these forums were the wife not longer wanted sex it turned out to be that she just didn't want with you but with her lover(male or female).

No. Then prepare yourself to leave the marriage, but you can not say stuff like I'll divorce you if we don't solve the problem and you do not mean it. Threats used as a bargaining chip with no intention to fulfill them create only resentments and aggravate the situation.

You're an adult man. You shouldn't be afraid to say what you need to say. 18 months is a very long time for you to have kept quite, boiling inside you. That's an indication that you're afraid of confrontations.

So just ask her straight, and be ready with what are you willing to tolerate to continue in this relationship. Probably, depending on what she says professional counseling will be needed, or depending on her age (you didn't mention it) she needs to see her Gynecologist.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Sit her down and tell her in a loving way that you see not willing to live in a sexless marriage and if it doesn't change soon the marriage will have to end.

It is sort of rare that someone is truly a sexual. Are you sure she isn't having sex with someone else? Does she masturbate too?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Sounds like you do not have kids. YOU ARE LUCKY!
kick her to the curb and walk away.
disrespecting you with no sex for almost two years means she no longer cares. You THINK she loves you....but in reality sounds like she likes your paycheck only.

there are plenty of deserving women out there, go find a good one


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

My 2 cents, generally speaking sexless marriages are symptoms of two things. Either there is a hormonal change(for which you can take some steps), and/or its a case of attraction. Regardless, you're going to sit down and have to talk to her, without any emotion and shouting, tell her that she can tell you exactly how she's feeling without fear of a reaction from your end. Try and understand what she's saying, if its truly unfixable, yes by all means, go ahead. But do try and find out what the issue is, there has to be one.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Thanks all. First off she is 41 & yes we have 1 child (12). I haven't brought it up before for 2 reasons. First was I thought it may pass by then before you know it time flies by & we're 18 months down the line. The 2nd is I'm certain her reaction will be one of anger at first (she suffers from anxiety) & her first port of call is to shout. I have held back as I needed a time where our son wouldn't be around for a sustained period as he doesn't need to come back in the middle of a potential heated discussion. This weekend he will be away for 5 days in total so I have time to talk just us 2.

There are no medical reasons why she won't be having sex. It just feels like it doesn't bother her at all that we don't have sex regularly anymore whereas me it does. My opening line was going to be "I love you, you're my wife, I naturally want sex with you.....I'm your husband, I assume you love me?, why don't you want to have sex anymore?". Not sure if that's the best but I thought it's to the point, honest & not horrible in any way.

She isn't seeing anyone else that I am certain of. She won't have the time & in our life I just know her seeing anyone won't be happening. Whether she masturbates is another thing? I assume she must do? Even if not weekly how can she go 18 months without doing it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Whatever you do, do NOT tell her that you’ve been masturbating to photos of her.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Hid the toys or take the batteries 🤣


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

GusPolinski said:


> Whatever you do, do NOT tell her that you’ve been masturbating to photos of her.


I know that much lol


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks all. First off she is 41 & yes we have 1 child (12). I haven't brought it up before for 2 reasons. First was I thought it may pass by then before you know it time flies by & we're 18 months down the line. The 2nd is I'm certain her reaction will be one of anger at first (she suffers from anxiety) & her first port of call is to shout. I have held back as I needed a time where our son wouldn't be around for a sustained period as he doesn't need to come back in the middle of a potential heated discussion. This weekend he will be away for 5 days in total so I have time to talk just us 2.
> 
> There are no medical reasons why she won't be having sex. It just feels like it doesn't bother her at all that we don't have sex regularly anymore whereas me it does. My opening line was going to be "I love you, you're my wife, I naturally want sex with you.....I'm your husband, I assume you love me?, why don't you want to have sex anymore?". Not sure if that's the best but I thought it's to the point, honest & not horrible in any way.
> 
> She isn't seeing anyone else that I am certain of. She won't have the time & in our life I just know her seeing anyone won't be happening. Whether she masturbates is another thing? I assume she must do? Even if not weekly how can she go 18 months without doing it?


Her first thing she is going to do is shout?

do not allow her to control this conversation. She is doing that to shut you up about this situation - a situation that she knows for sure is something she is doing wrong to you.

tell her if she can’t speak like a grown adult, then there is no reason for you to stay with her and you’ll be filing for divorce.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Her first thing she is going to do is shout?
> 
> do not allow her to control this conversation. She is doing that to shut you up about this situation - a situation that she knows for sure is something she is doing wrong to you.
> 
> tell her if she can’t speak like a grown adult, then there is no reason for you to stay with her and you’ll be filing for divorce.


If I mention divorce it will just amp her anxiety up even more so won't be going down that route but I hear you. I will be using the talk to me like an adult line or not at all. I'll add in "if you respect me & our marriage enough you will talk calmly to me". To be blunt whatever she says won't hurt me as much as I'm hurting day to day from this now. Literally couldn't sleep the other night through a cross between anger & confusion. If we were alone I would have woke her up at 2 in the morning to tell her how I feel - she seems oblivious to it. I make witty remarks to her these day which probably doesn't help. I don't know....if she was to say something slightly sexy in an innocent way I'd turn in into a sexy joke almost as a dig at her. The other night on tv someone mentioned they hadn't had sex in ages so I pulled a face which I'm sure she saw


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

This sounds pretty dismal. Is she affectionate at all? Do you hug, hold hands, kiss, hold each other in bed…anything?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I haven't brought it up before for 2 reasons. First was I thought it may pass by then before you know it time flies by & we're 18 months down the line. The 2nd is I'm certain her reaction will be one of anger at first (she suffers from anxiety) & her first port of call is to shout.


My wife is also one of those people that deals with any uncomfortable topic or anything where she thinks she might feel the slightest bit judged or criticized by launching a massive first-strike attack. 

The way you deal with that is not to try to soft-step it but by cutting it off at the knees before she has the chance to counter strike.

It took me a few epic failures before I learned that in order to have any kind of rational, collaborative adult conversation was for my opening line to be “ we need to discuss an issue like rational adults and any anger, attacks, threats or stonewalling will not be tolerated and the problem will not go away because you yell the loudest. Whatever the issue is will not land us in divorce court, but the inability or unwillingness to discuss it will. If you are unable to discuss this with me calmly, rationally and collaboratively, then we can go back to paying through the nose for professional marital counseling again. Are you or are you not willing to have a rational discussion for the benefit of our relationship?”


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> This sounds pretty dismal. Is she affectionate at all? Do you hug, hold hands, kiss, hold each other in bed…anything?


Yes she sits next to me & wants to be cuddled watching tv and when we're out walking she will link her arm to mine. She doesn't want to kiss anymore though & doesn't come up for a standing cuddle like she used to.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

You seem to be afraid of your wife. This kind of behavior is very unattractive and could be a reason she doesn't want to have sex with you. Are you a nice guy? Being too nice is also unattractive and so are the covert contracts related to sex that go along with that. IE, if I'm a nice husband and cook her dinner and dote on her she'll sleep with me.

Quit asking or begging for sex, that's also unattractive. Just initiate and take it(consensual of course).


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes she sits next to me & wants to be cuddled watching tv and when we're out walking she will link her arm to mine. She doesn't want to kiss anymore though & doesn't come up for a standing cuddle like she used to.


Sounds like she has an aversion to sex… is she afraid of having another child? Seems like you could delicately ask her some questions to figure out what’s going on in her head?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I'm not afraid of her in the slightest. I just know what breaching these touchy subjects leads to....an afternoon of outright tension because of her reaction. Even a day or 2 sometimes. I've said so many times just leave an argument but she can't. So I'm not afraid of her I'm wary of having a couple of days of sh*t.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And far as your general issue, unless there is some kind of hormonal, physiological or medical issue, people do not “go off sex.”

Now my wife went through peri menopause in her early 40s, so that does happen.

But generally it is that they lose their attraction and desire FOR YOU. 

If she were to get with Sven From Yoga, she would be the hot porn star all over again for him. 

Since you pretty know that this probably stems back to whatever issues you had when this all started. My recommendation is to seek professional marital counseling from the get-go. 

The fact that this was brought on by serious conflict and her tendency to launch an attack any time you try to broach a significant topic, I think you’d be better off with a professional mediator right from the start.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> Sounds like she has an aversion to sex… is she afraid of having another child? Seems like you could delicately ask her some questions to figure out what’s going on in her head?


Yes you might be onto something there. She has said to me she doesn't want anymore children which I'm happy with but it doesn't mean you don't stop having sex. It could be linked to that though you're right.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Hows your attraction level?

Are you fat and lazy or do you work out?
Is your style on point?
Wear nice clothes?
Good hygiene? 
Are you fun and take her out to do things?

The first step is being as attractive as possible by fixing the things above if any are an issue.

Once you are attractive and she won't have sex with you try taking away your time and attention. Your time an attention is a reward for her pleasing you.

Initiate sex. If you get rejected say, I'm gonna hit the gym...or I'm gonna grab a pint at the bar...or something else you can do to get away.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes you might be onto something there. She has said to me she doesn't want anymore children which I'm happy with but it doesn't mean you don't stop having sex. It could be linked to that though you're right.


I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Her first thing she is going to do is shout?
> 
> do not allow her to control this conversation. She is doing that to shut you up about this situation - a situation that she knows for sure is something she is doing wrong to you.
> 
> tell her if she can’t speak like a grown adult, then there is no reason for you to stay with her and you’ll be filing for divorce.


Sounds like your marriage is dysfunctional in many ways if you won't bring up important things because you are _afraid she is going to shout_. Did you know she was like this when you married her?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

No I didn't know she was like this. Think she has got worse. Obviously her guard was up when I first met her. I don't think the average person reacts like her put it that way.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

You should read Married Man’s Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay and also The Dead Bedroom Fix by DSO. If you can read quickly I highly recommend doing this before you talk with her as you need to understand that you might be unattractive or doing unattractive behaviors.

Once you have that figured out, what I did when I confronted my wife with a 2x/month situation was to say hey that isn’t going to fly for me. I need more than that and I will work on changing anything I need to change but if things continue as they are or degrade further then we’re done. 

I wouldn’t be happy about that but I respect your decision to have or not have sex, it’s just there’s no point in having a husband and wife (sexual) relationship with no sex.

My wife quickly admitted that it’s right that husband and wife should be banging and that was a shared belief that helped pull us up from the nose dive.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


It's also a good way to get accidentally pregnant, especially as a woman enters her 40s and things become more unpredictable.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And even though I have no moral or theological objections to porn or masturbation, from a purely practical stand point I recommend going cold turkey on spanking and make a a commitment to yourself that the next you orgasm, it will be with another living, breathing human being.

Let the pressure build. Let it be uncomfortable. Let it drive you to take action. Men will move mountains for sex, but they won’t dump the sand out of their shoes if they are draining their tanks and relieving their own pressure all the time. 

Let your natural drive push you to take action.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


There is a name given to people who use supposed “natural family planning”. They are called PARENTS.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control, but not sure what they call it these days.


Be advised that Catholic Dad has stated on here that he has TEN kids. 

If that isn’t testimony to the effectiveness of “natural family planning”, I don’t know what is. 

The term Natural Family Planning, should be changed to Plan To Have Lots Of Kids.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> If I mention divorce it will just amp her anxiety up even more so won't be going down that route but I hear you. I will be using the talk to me like an adult line or not at all. I'll add in "if you respect me & our marriage enough you will talk calmly to me". To be blunt whatever she says won't hurt me as much as I'm hurting day to day from this now. Literally couldn't sleep the other night through a cross between anger & confusion. If we were alone I would have woke her up at 2 in the morning to tell her how I feel - she seems oblivious to it. I make witty remarks to her these day which probably doesn't help. I don't know....if she was to say something slightly sexy in an innocent way I'd turn in into a sexy joke almost as a dig at her. The other night on tv someone mentioned they hadn't had sex in ages so I pulled a face which I'm sure she saw


This is good, but she needs to know you are serious. I’ve been in a dead bedroom before as well. Sorry, not sorry - I don’t have sympathy for anxiety issues if she is treating you this way. I suffer from pretty bad anxiety too. It can be medicated. She needs to be an adult and take care of her issues. Flying off the handle and shouting and being overcome by anxiety because you need to have serious marital discussions is unacceptable. She needs to know that her decisions have consequences. There is no reason for two healthy adults who can have sex be in a sexless marriage.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes you might be onto something there. She has said to me she doesn't want anymore children which I'm happy with but it doesn't mean you don't stop having sex. It could be linked to that though you're right.


What kind of birth control do you guys use?

I would recommend a vasectomy if you guys are done having children. It's easy, quick, and cheaper than getting her tubes tied.

If fear of pregnancy is what's stopping her from having sex, then you definitely have options, but I wouldn't recommend natural birth control. I used it. I felt I was safe one night, and voila, my daughter was conceived!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LATERILUS79 said:


> This is good, but she needs to know you are serious. I’ve been in a dead bedroom before as well. Sorry, not sorry - I don’t have sympathy for anxiety issues if she is treating you this way. I suffer from pretty bad anxiety too. It can be medicated. She needs to be an adult and take care of her issues. Flying off the handle and shouting and being overcome by anxiety because you need to have serious marital discussions is unacceptable. She needs to know that her decisions have consequences. There is no reason for two healthy adults who can have sex be in a sexless marriage.


100% agreement here.

Anxiety does not prevent the repercussions of reality. 

She can be anxious over addressing a serious marital issue..... or she can be anxious over him moving on and finding someone else that actually wants to be with him. 

She needs to pick her anxiety and decide which she’d rather be anxious over.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Talker67 said:


> Sounds like you do not have kids. YOU ARE LUCKY!
> kick her to the curb and walk away.
> disrespecting you with no sex for almost two years means she no longer cares. You THINK she loves you....but in reality sounds like she likes your paycheck only.
> 
> there are plenty of deserving women out there, go find a good one


Wow, you sure are quick to suggest divorce in most situations.... Would you suggest kicking her out if she burned breakfast? Or if she failed to change the tv remote batteries before they died?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

A year and a half of no sex and no kissing etc in a 40 year old married couple is not due to fear of pregnancy. 

No one has ever got pregnant from a BJ or HJ etc. 

Every high school kid knows knows what the current state of contraception technology is. 

This situation ain’t about being unaware of what contraception methods are available.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Wow, you sure are quick to suggest divorce in most situations.... Would you suggest kicking her out if she burned breakfast? Or if she failed to change the tv remote batteries before they died?


I'd divorce my wife if we didn't have sex for 18 days let alone 18 months. Without sex you are just friends or roommates.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> If I mention divorce it will just amp her anxiety up even more so won't be going down that route but I hear you.


Like I said in my previous post: do not mention divorce as a consequence of not sex, unless you are willing to leave her if she's not longer willing to have sex. But you must have some ideas depending on her response what are the steps you need to follow for YOU. So start thinking what is it that you are willing to do one way or another. If you are not willing to do anything to disrupt the family then, why bother with anything if her problem is not due to a physical/hormonal, or mental problem?



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not afraid of her in the slightest. I just know what breaching these touchy subjects leads to....


You say that you're not afraid, but by the same token, you are evading confrontation using her outbursts and the tension created as an excuse. Seems to me that that's being afraid.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sorry to say, but I'm still not convinced that there's not at least and emotional affair going on.

Her (irrational) reaction to you questioning things, the pattern change from earlier in your marriage, cutting you off sexually and other intimate gestures (kissing). etc

Something is still fishy, I just don't fully buy the anxiety line.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> If I mention divorce it will just amp her anxiety up even more so won't be going down that route but I hear you. I will be using the talk to me like an adult line or not at all. I'll add in "if you respect me & our marriage enough you will talk calmly to me". To be blunt whatever she says won't hurt me as much as I'm hurting day to day from this now. Literally couldn't sleep the other night through a cross between anger & confusion. If we were alone I would have woke her up at 2 in the morning to tell her how I feel - she seems oblivious to it. I make witty remarks to her these day which probably doesn't help. I don't know....if she was to say something slightly sexy in an innocent way I'd turn in into a sexy joke almost as a dig at her. The other night on tv someone mentioned they hadn't had sex in ages so I pulled a face which I'm sure she saw


Just sit her down and tell her calmly what you've told us here. Maybe you could suggest couple counselling? She's gone off sex and there must be a reason.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> This is good, but she needs to know you are serious. I’ve been in a dead bedroom before as well. Sorry, not sorry - I don’t have sympathy for anxiety issues if she is treating you this way. I suffer from pretty bad anxiety too. It can be medicated. She needs to be an adult and take care of her issues. Flying off the handle and shouting and being overcome by anxiety because you need to have serious marital discussions is unacceptable. She needs to know that her decisions have consequences. There is no reason for two healthy adults who can have sex be in a sexless marriage.


You are right, you put it to the point. There is no reason why us as a couple or any 2 healthy adults should not be having sex. I will tell her nicely that I miss sex with her, I miss the closeness & how I want her. I'll then ask her why she hasn't wanted sex or to kiss me much over the past 18 months. I should of done it sooner I know but it's a start I guess


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Sorry to say, but I'm still not convinced that there's not at least and emotional affair going on.
> 
> Her (irrational) reaction to you questioning things, the pattern change from earlier in your marriage, cutting you off sexually and other intimate gestures (kissing). etc
> 
> Something is still fishy, I just don't fully buy the anxiety line.


I'd be certain there is no sort of affair going on at all. She doesn't work & I only work in the same village as where we live so pop home out the blue alot. She doesn't have a car & never goes out anywhere enough to get me concerned at least. She is dead against cheating.

I maybe wrong but I don't see how it's possible to have an affair living the life we lead.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Another vote for reading The Married Man's Sex Life Primer. It has a lot of useful information in it and is a pretty quick read.

You can't completely discount the possibility of an affair. Does she guard her phone or tablet? Do you have full access to all her communication devices? If you are highly confident she isn't having a physical or emotional affair, then proceed with that assumption, but do not write it off completely.

How do you initiate now? Do you ask for it or take physical steps to engage in sex? How does she reject your advances? It seems over the course of 18 months you would have an idea of why she isn't interested, even if you haven't talk about it directly.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Like I said in my previous post: do not mention divorce as a consequence of not sex, unless you are willing to leave her if she's not longer willing to have sex. But you must have some ideas depending on her response what are the steps you need to follow for YOU. So start thinking what is it that you are willing to do one way or another. If you are not willing to do anything to disrupt the family then, why bother with anything if her problem is not due to a physical/hormonal, or mental problem?
> 
> 
> You say that you're not afraid, but by the same token, you are evading confrontation using her outbursts and the tension created as an excuse. Seems to me that that's being afraid.


Yeah you have a point. It's not her I'm scared of it's knowing what will come of it - x amount of time trying to sort the problem because of her over the top reaction. I love her & know I choose to stay so can't really complain


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

This may be a useful article. The site has loads of other information that can help your situation to. It is worth poking around at what is there. It is written for the person not wanting sex, but it is very insightful for both sides of the situation. 









Trapped gatekeepers - blame the guard, not the prisoner - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you feel that you are trapped by your low libido? Do you "want to want to" have sex? This post explains what's going on, and how to deal with this war going on in your brain.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Wow, you sure are quick to suggest divorce in most situations.... Would you suggest kicking her out if she burned breakfast? Or if she failed to change the tv remote batteries before they died?


no sex, deliberately, of almost two years....is a deal breaker. there is pretty much no coming back from that.

So what is your question? WHY should he stay,
its a lost cause.

AND if you actually do the boring work of going thru my past posts, i am almost ALWAYS trying to figure out why the sex ended, suggesting how to turn it back on without getting divorced, even in some cases to reconcile if the conditions are right for it to work and the sex life to start up again. 
In this case, i am not getting any positive vibes at all about the wife.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Another vote for reading The Married Man's Sex Life Primer. It has a lot of useful information in it and is a pretty quick read.
> 
> You can't completely discount the possibility of an affair. Does she guard her phone or tablet? Do you have full access to all her communication devices? If you are highly confident she isn't having a physical or emotional affair, then proceed with that assumption, but do not write it off completely.
> 
> How do you initiate now? Do you ask for it or take physical steps to engage in sex? How does she reject your advances? It seems over the course of 18 months you would have an idea of why she isn't interested, even if you haven't talk about it directly.


I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months. I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & lean in to kiss her but 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek. Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me". Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> no sex, deliberately, of almost two years....is a deal breaker. there is pretty much no coming back from that.
> 
> So what is your question? WHY should he stay, its a lost cause.


I too think no sex for 18 months is a dealbreaker and reason to walk away, IF he has tried to rectify the situation. So far it sounds like he doesn't even know why, nor tried to find out why.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> no sex, deliberately, of almost two years....is a deal breaker. there is pretty much no coming back from that.
> 
> So what is your question? WHY should he stay, its a lost cause.





somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months. I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & lean in to kiss her but* 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek.* Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me". Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


So i guess a BJ is right out?

dump her. she is harshing your ego!


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

I would put money on she's cheating. Everyone needs sex.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I too think no sex for 18 months is a dealbreaker and reason to walk away, IF he has tried to rectify the situation. So far it sounds like he doesn't even know why, nor tried to find out why.


Yes I haven't tried to rectify the situation. This weekend will be the first. I've never been in this situation & I really had no idea what a fair timeframe to give her was. After doing some research online this past week I can see I've given more than enough time & we would be deemed to be in a sexless relationship if we visited a sex therapist.⁷


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

thunderchad said:


> I would put money on she's cheating. Everyone needs sex.


I can't see it. Honestly. I'm not delusional it's just she can't be how we live our life. I'd be amazed if I'm wrong put it that way.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

thunderchad said:


> I would put money on she's cheating. Everyone needs sex.


she does seem to be treating him with a very cruel streak to her.

OP, have you LOOKED?
Pull up the phone bills and see who she is texting.
Move a VAR around the house and listen to what goes on when you are not there

you are right. she might not be cheating on you. Instead, she might be a masochist, and derives her sexual pleasure by torturing you. Has she mentioned buying you a chastity cage?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months. I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & lean in to kiss her but 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek. Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me". Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


I don't think she fully appreciates how important sexual intimacy is for a man's well being. That is the point you need to get across to her. You aren't just some animal wanting to hump her. If you are like me, I feel most close to wife emotionally when we are having sex. It fills my emotional tank. I've seen it here a million times that a lot of women think it is just about the guy wanting to get off. That just isn't always the case.

You really should read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and some articles on the site I linked about spontaneous and responsive desire, before talking to her. How you approach this discussion is going to have a big impact on the outcome. It is difficult to not come off accusatory and it sounds like it could be hard to react properly if she goes off the rails. In the end, if you don't want to stay in a sexless marriage, you need to tell her just that. Don't say we are going to have sex or we're getting divorced. Simply tell her that you will not live in a sexless marriage. She will be able to put it together from there.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think she fully appreciates how important sexual intimacy is for a man's well being. That is the point you need to get across to her. You aren't just some animal wanting to hump her. If you are like me, I feel most close to wife emotionally when we are having sex. It fills my emotional tank. I've seen it here a million times that a lot of women think it is just about the guy wanting to get off. That just isn't always the case.
> 
> You really should read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and some articles on the site I linked about spontaneous and responsive desire, before talking to her. How you approach this discussion is going to have a big impact on the outcome. It is difficult to not come off accusatory and it sounds like it could be hard to react properly if she goes off the rails. In the end, if you don't want to stay in a sexless marriage, you need to tell her just that. Don't say we are going to have sex or we're getting divorced. Simply tell her that you will not live in a sexless marriage. She will be able to put it together from there.





Talker67 said:


> she does seem to be treating him with a very cruel streak to her.
> 
> OP, have you LOOKED?
> Pull up the phone bills and see who she is texting.
> ...


I was tempted to leave a hidden camera or audio recorder a while back. Not so much for the cheating side but to see if she is masturbating. It really doesn't bother me but I just wondered.

She's in house until 8.30am everyday until our son goes to school. She then strolls to village shop occasionally but she phones me most times as she's walking down the road. I have friends in the village who can testify to seeing her there at that time. Then I may pop home mid morning. Then I'm back in at 1pm for the afternoon. How she can work an affair round that I don't know.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think she fully appreciates how important sexual intimacy is for a man's well being. That is the point you need to get across to her. You aren't just some animal wanting to hump her. If you are like me, I feel most close to wife emotionally when we are having sex. It fills my emotional tank. I've seen it here a million times that a lot of women think it is just about the guy wanting to get off. That just isn't always the case.
> 
> You really should read Married Man's Sex Life Primer and some articles on the site I linked about spontaneous and responsive desire, before talking to her. How you approach this discussion is going to have a big impact on the outcome. It is difficult to not come off accusatory and it sounds like it could be hard to react properly if she goes off the rails. In the end, if you don't want to stay in a sexless marriage, you need to tell her just that. Don't say we are going to have sex or we're getting divorced. Simply tell her that you will not live in a sexless marriage. She will be able to put it together from there.





Talker67 said:


> she does seem to be treating him with a very cruel streak to her.
> 
> OP, have you LOOKED?
> Pull up the phone bills and see who she is texting.
> ...


I was tempted to leave a hidden camera or audio recorder a while back. Not so much for the cheating side but to see if she is masturbating. It really doesn't bother me but I just wondered.

She's in house until 8.30am everyday until our son goes to school. She then strolls to village shop occasionally but she phones me most times as she's walking down the road. I have friends in the village who can testify to seeing her there at that time. Then I may pop home mid morning. Then I'm back in at 1pm for the afternoon. How she can work an affair round that I don't know


Talker67 said:


> she does seem to be treating him with a very cruel streak to her.
> 
> OP, have you LOOKED?
> Pull up the phone bills and see who she is texting.
> ...


And no she's not into all that at all. Masochist & chastity cage is just not her.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

she might be walking to her lover's house, give him a quicky, and then come home.
can you track her phone? any odd place she goes to often?

If you look at the other threads on this website, you will find well over 50% find the spouse is cheating, and that is why they are getting no sex. 

You pointed out an event in the past where it seems your sex stopped. that is likely the day she went to her EA partner and said "i am ready", and has been doing it ever since.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'd be certain there is no sort of affair going on at all. She doesn't work & I only work in the same village as where we live so pop home out the blue alot. She doesn't have a car & never goes out anywhere enough to get me concerned at least. She is dead against cheating.
> 
> I maybe wrong but I don't see how it's possible to have an affair living the life we lead.


Fair enough. Things just don't seem to be adding up to me.
But you know your situation best.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Be advised that Catholic Dad has stated on here that he has TEN kids.
> 
> If that isn’t testimony to the effectiveness of “natural family planning”, I don’t know what is.
> 
> The term Natural Family Planning, should be changed to Plan To Have Lots Of Kids.


No, NFP worked great but my crazy wife loves babies- and I’m easily seduced. I can say in 100% honesty we knew almost every time when we were baby making- we were both so in tune with her ovulating “schedule”. It gets trickier as women age- but still pretty darn easy. But hey ladies, keep taking hormones (birth control) or use rubbers for the next twenty years and see how great that works out!


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

You are getting some good advice, but honestly if you go at her with "why no sex?" she is going to get defensive and angry. I think it is more important to lead with why it is important to you to connect to her in a sexual way. Something that is intimate between you two. 

Women( I am one) sometimes find it hard to understand that men show love through sex. Anger and resentment get in the way and maybe she is not feeling sexy. Tell her how beautiful she is to you... not just sexy.. beautiful in all ways.

Have that talk.. ask her how she would like you to show her love.. and how you can support her. I think we get into a routine that makes us just live the status quo.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I can't see it. Honestly. I'm not delusional it's just she can't be how we live our life. I'd be amazed if I'm wrong put it that way.


never rule it out man. Besides, she doesn't work. I doubt she is playing online golf all day.

Not saying she is cheating but you may want to look into that to rule it out


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> she might be walking to her lover's house, give him a quicky, and then come home.
> can you track her phone? any odd place she goes to often?


No she doesn't go anywhere weird. She doesn't guard her phone. Quite the opposite, it's rang before when she was out the room & I didn't answer it. She actually said could I pick it up next time if it rings in the future & she's not in the room.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> What kind of birth control do you guys use?
> 
> I would recommend a vasectomy if you guys are done having children. It's easy, quick, and cheaper than getting her tubes tied.
> 
> If fear of pregnancy is what's stopping her from having sex, then you definitely have options, but I wouldn't recommend natural birth control. I used it. I felt I was safe one night, and voila, my daughter was conceived!


It’s called “Natural Family Planning” not “natural birth control” and it requires intelligence and self control. So yeah, wouldn’t work for you. 😂 

Only kidding!!! … you just set this up too well to not crack on you.

Congrats on your daughter though- must have been meant to be!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> And even though I have no moral or theological objections to porn or masturbation, from a purely practical stand point I recommend going cold turkey on spanking and make a a commitment to yourself that the next you orgasm, it will be with another living, breathing human being.
> 
> Let the pressure build. Let it be uncomfortable. Let it drive you to take action. Men will move mountains for sex, but they won’t dump the sand out of their shoes if they are draining their tanks and relieving their own pressure all the time.
> 
> Let your natural drive push you to take action.


I agree with @oldshirt - rip off the porn “bandage” and take on this problem head on. Your marriage ended 18 months ago and porn/masturbation is sinful, juvenile, and sad…. grown men live in reality… they don’t throw away marriage/vows/true love for a fantasy!


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

oh boy, oh boy, Another poster who wants a change, but isnt going to do anything about it, just going to talk about it. 

Unless you threaten consequences, THAT YOU WILL FOLLOW THRU WITH, things are not going to change. If you are ok with that, that is your choice, I respect that. But I will save you some time. She aint changing without some drastic action.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> And even though I have no moral or theological objections to porn or masturbation, from a purely practical stand point I recommend going cold turkey on spanking and make a a commitment to yourself that the next you orgasm, it will be with another living, breathing human being.


BTW I left this out of my advice but I also stopped all porn and jerking off for the same reason. It will quickly make you realize how bad things are and it will force you into making the necessary adjustments, having difficult discussions, and making any changes that need to be made one way or another.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months. I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & lean in to kiss her but 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek. Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me". Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


The more information you let us know, the more I don’t think you should waste any more time on her.

the gall to say, “I know you are only trying to get sex out of me” after only having sex 2 times in 18 months is appalling. Clearly, she doesn’t see any of the other things you do around the house for your family. Clearly she doesn’t see you appreciating her for other things outside Of sex. I would have found this line to be extremely insulting.

sir, I think you should leave if things don’t change after you have a grownup discussion with her about this.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'd like to make the same old point one more time. Sigh
There is more than one promise in the marriage vows. The promise to love and cherish is pretty darn common. Don't harp on a person who contemplates divorce when THAT promise is never kept.
Another tired old saw, If you want your wife to be interested in you, then you need to be interesting. That means not popping in 2 or 3 times a day. That means not calling every day at the same time. That means that you fill your life with Your Personal interests. That means that there are parts of your life that she doesn't expect. 
Last, When a wife says "you are just trying to get sex", that is an indicator that some asshole is filling her head with some seriously incorrect ideas about sexual relationships. If you can figure out who that person is, cut them out of your lives. If you can't then honestly and enthusiastically agree with the accusation.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme, you have been able to determine the time your relationship changed to a series of big arguments a year and a half ago.

You said, it was “family problems.”

So the elephant in the room that begs to be asked is what were these fights about and how serious was it really?

Were these “problems” that your Aunt Petunia was stopping by wanting to gossip with her every day about the rest of the family and no one had the giblets to tell her to knock it off? 

Or were you accused of molesting your wife’s niece?

Context matters here. What was her beef during these arguments and how much merit does she have for not wanting to be intimate with you??


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

thunderchad said:


> I would put money on she's cheating. Everyone needs sex.


Everybody, mentally and physically healthy.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme, you have been able to determine the time your relationship changed to a series of big arguments a year and a half ago.
> 
> You said, it was “family problems.”
> 
> ...


Just a stupid argument that got out of hand revolving around my wife believing I took my mums side over hers in a small issue. That was is. Like I said nothing at all. I didn't take my mums side btw but I didn't take my wifes either. I stood back to let them sort it as adults. Unfortunately my wife just wouldn't leave it & pushed me so much to shout back. I said I thought she needed mental help which I believe. I didn't just say it in the heat of moment to hurt her I've seen enough long before that to make me believe it. So like I said don't think I touched up her neice or something. This issue is over nothing major....to most people. My wife has made this into something that I feel most wouldn't.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Talker67 said:


> no sex, deliberately, of almost two years....is a deal breaker. there is pretty much no coming back from that.
> 
> So what is your question? WHY should he stay,
> its a lost cause.
> ...


You said you would divorce your wife if she didn't have sex with you after 18 days..... This suggests you have zero patience and/or empathy in a relationship. In my opinion, that is a huge red flag.

And exactly how can you get any vibes when you haven't even heard her side of the story??? It is possible that there is a medical reason for her sex drive issues. Is she on ssri meds? Or any other meds that can possibly cause this issue? There are legitimate medical reasons that kill a sex drive. There could be other reasons such as the death of a close friend or relative. When my mother in law passed, my wifes sex drive went down probably 90% for 8-10 months. She said it wasn't me, she just missed her mom and wasn't herself 

I think it would be better to try and get some more details before just jumping up with lousy advice saying to just kick her to the curb. I say talk to her and ask her to see a doctor for hormone testing and counseling with a sex therapist.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Just a stupid argument that got out of hand revolving around my wife believing I took my mums side over hers in a small issue. That was is. Like I said nothing at all. I didn't take my mums side btw but I didn't take my wifes either. I stood back to let them sort it as adults. Unfortunately my wife just wouldn't leave it & pushed me so much to shout back. I said I thought she needed mental help which I believe. I didn't just say it in the heat of moment to hurt her I've seen enough long before that to make me believe it. So like I said don't think I touched up her neice or something. This issue is over nothing major....to most people. My wife has made this into something that I feel most wouldn't.


Oh yeah, saying this for my benefit and others: *never, ever* side with anyone in an argument against your wife. Standing back and watching is almost just as bad.

Next time this happens- even if your wife is flat out wrong- imagine this person just kicked your dog- and jump in vehemently to your wife’s defense! It’s better to get into a fist fight and go to jail than to give wifey the impression you won’t defend her. You probably got another 18 months of dry spell to go before that debt is paid. 😂


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You said you would divorce your wife if she didn't have sex with you after 18 days..... This suggests you have zero patience and/or empathy in a relationship. In my opinion, that is a huge red flag.
> 
> And exactly how can you get any vibes when you haven't even heard her side of the story??? It is possible that there is a medical reason for her sex drive issues. Is she on ssri meds? Or any other meds that can possibly cause this issue? There are legitimate medical reasons that kill a sex drive. There could be other reasons such as the death of a close friend or relative. When my mother in law passed, my wifes sex drive went down probably 90% for 8-10 months. She said it wasn't me, she just missed her mom and wasn't herself
> 
> I think it would be better to try and get some more details before just jumping up with lousy advice saying to just kick her to the curb. I say talk to her and ask her to see a doctor for hormone testing and counseling with a sex therapist.


While I agree that one should not jump right into threats of divorce. The catch here is she is outright rejecting him and pushing him away when he tries to be affectionate.

That is not a sex drive issue - that is a lack of attraction or even disgust issue and a relationship issue.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> No, NFP worked great but my crazy wife loves babies- and I’m easily seduced. I can say in 100% honesty we knew almost every time when we were baby making- we were both so in tune with her ovulating “schedule”. It gets trickier as women age- but still pretty darn easy. But hey ladies, keep taking hormones (birth control) or use rubbers for the next twenty years and see how great that works out!


so you DO have kids?

you are fooked son. 
i guess it IS worth trying to get the sex to work again. 

we are not kidding, really investigate if she is having an affair. It's the most likely explanation

if not, demand she go see a doctor to get her hormone levels checked, something is very wrong about her attitude on sex...most women WANT SEX.

Then try marriage counseling. Maybe a pro can pick thru the detritus she calls a brain and figure her out.

THEN if your balls are still blue, time to divorce.


AND FOR GOD's sake, if she DOES let you screw her, wear a condom. You do NOT want any new babies


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> While I agree that one should jump right into threats of divorce. The catch here is she is outright rejecting him and pushing him away when he tries to be affectionate.
> 
> That is not a sex drive issue - that is a lack of attraction *or even disgust issue *and a relationship issue.


like a cheating wife would have when she promised her AP that she would not let her husband have sex anymore?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> My wife has made this into something that I feel most wouldn't.


Adding to the list of red flags.

Have there been any arguments since then that you thought were turning-molehills-into-mountains?
Maybe not on the scale of 18 months ago, but has there been an uptick in the number of disagreements like this?



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> she needed mental help


Why did you think she needs mental help? Just for being irrational in this one isolated incident? Surely there is more to that statement than just this occasion.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Oh yeah, saying this for my benefit and others: *never, ever* side with anyone in an argument against your wife. Standing back and watching is almost just as bad.
> 
> Next time this happens- even if your wife is flat out wrong- imagine this person just kicked your dog- and jump in vehemently to your wife’s defense! It’s better to get into a fist fight and go to jail than to give wifey the impression you won’t defend her. You probably got another 18 months of dry spell to go before that debt is paid. 😂


This is ********. This lady sounds like a shouting, combative terror. 

At a point, defending is merely enabling bad toxic behavior.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know that much lol


hmmm...usually your wife will be flattered you masturbate to her rather than to someone else. My wife finds it very flattering when I tell her I masturbated to our videos. She gets all giddy and has that smile on her. I would imagine any woman would want their husbands masturbating to them rather than anyone else. Unless she doesn't like you maybe or finds you gross then that might be a different story.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Just a stupid argument that got out of hand revolving around my wife believing I took my mums side over hers in a small issue. That was is. Like I said nothing at all. I didn't take my mums side btw but I didn't take my wifes either. I stood back to let them sort it as adults. Unfortunately my wife just wouldn't leave it & pushed me so much to shout back. I said I thought she needed mental help which I believe. I didn't just say it in the heat of moment to hurt her I've seen enough long before that to make me believe it. So like I said don't think I touched up her neice or something. This issue is over nothing major....to most people. My wife has made this into something that I feel most wouldn't.


You’re still being evasive and minimizing.

What was this “small issue” because it obviously was not small to her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Adding to the list of red flags.
> 
> Have there been any arguments since then that you thought were turning-molehills-into-mountains?
> Maybe not on the scale of 18 months ago, but has there been an uptick in the number of disagreements like this?
> ...


Yes she makes dramas out of numerous things. Just her behaviour. She doesn't speak to her parents as they 'kicked her out' when she was early 20's. I've never met them. She has no friends - seriously zero. She doesn't talk to my family anymore. My family want her included but she has distanced herself. She seems to alienate herself from everyone. I think her issues from her youth are affecting her today.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not afraid of her in the slightest. I just know what breaching these touchy subjects leads to....an afternoon of outright tension because of her reaction. Even a day or 2 sometimes. I've said so many times just leave an argument but she can't. So I'm not afraid of her I'm wary of having a couple of days of sh*t.


You're afraid of a couple days of her ****, but you can deal with 18 months of your misery?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Oh yeah, saying this for my benefit and others: *never, ever* side with anyone in an argument against your wife. Standing back and watching is almost just as bad.
> 
> Next time this happens- even if your wife is flat out wrong- imagine this person just kicked your dog- and jump in vehemently to your wife’s defense! It’s better to get into a fist fight and go to jail than to give wifey the impression you won’t defend her. You probably got another 18 months of dry spell to go before that debt is paid. 😂


Again, it’s all about context especially when their may be mental disorders involved.

If your wife thinks one of the kids is possessed by the devil and wants to burn him/her alive and your mother is saying no, are you going to side with your wife?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes she makes dramas out of numerous things. Just her behaviour. She doesn't speak to her parents as they 'kicked her out' when she was early 20's. I've never met them. She has no friends - seriously zero. She doesn't talk to my family anymore. My family want her included but she has distanced herself. She seems to alienate herself from everyone. I think her issues from her youth are affecting her today.


The more you describe your situation, the nuttier she sounds. 

Has she or has she not ever had a thorough mental health assessment by a licensed psychiatrist?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You’re still being evasive and minimizing.
> 
> What was this “small issue” because it obviously was not small to her.


I'm not being invasive really. We had to live with my parents for 6 months & my wife got funny about my mum not doing any cooking & her having to do it all....which factually WASN'T the case. She created it the issue. My mum did her fair share.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


The glaring problem with this method is that when women are most interested in sex, due to ovulation, she can't have sex. That is why there are so many failures with this method. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> The more you describe your situation, the nuttier she sounds.
> 
> Has she or has she not ever had a thorough mental health assessment by a licensed psychiatrist?


No she hasn't. That's why I said the mental health comment to her. I was being genuine not nasty.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Wow, you sure are quick to suggest divorce in most situations.... Would you suggest kicking her out if she burned breakfast? Or if she failed to change the tv remote batteries before they died?


Are you really comparing her refusal to have sex with him for MONTHS to burning a meal or changing batteries??


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> The glaring problem with this method is that when women are most interested in sex, due to ovulation, she can't have sex. That is why there are so many failures with this method.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Birth control pills also kill a woman’s desire for sex I’m told. It’s better to abstain when ovulating than take hormones- agree?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not being invasive really. We had to live with my parents for 6 months & my wife got funny about my mum not doing any cooking & her having to do it all....which factually WASN'T the case. She created it the issue. My mum did her fair share.


The other marriage destroyer… moving in with mom! 😆 

Stating “facts” against your wife in an argument will always put you in the doghouse- even if said facts are true.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes she makes dramas out of numerous things. Just her behaviour. She doesn't speak to her parents as they 'kicked her out' when she was early 20's. I've never met them. She has no friends - seriously zero. She doesn't talk to my family anymore. My family want her included but she has distanced herself. She seems to alienate herself from everyone. I think her issues from her youth are affecting her today.


She sounds dysfunctional. 

Your marriage will never be a healthy relationship.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

So what was happening before the last 18 months, was it significantly different or did she slowly trickle down over a period of time?


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

This woman sounds difficult and crazy. This will never work. Time to work on the go plan.

Also quit porn and jerking off.

I still think she's cheating. I have seen people cheat in less than 5 minutes


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

LisaDiane said:


> Are you really comparing her refusal to have sex with him for MONTHS to burning a meal or changing batteries??


No, I am talking about his asinine statement that he would divorce his wife after 18 days of no sex.... A statement like that suggests his wife isn't actually a wife. More like a live in sex tool


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

re16 said:


> So what was happening before the last 18 months, was it significantly different or did she slowly trickle down over a period of time?


It was fine. We would have sex a couple of times a week. Got on well. The odd argument but nothing major. Just gone downhill a lot over the last 18 months sex wise. The other side of our relationship is as it was.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

thunderchad said:


> This woman sounds difficult and crazy. This will never work. Time to work on the go plan.
> 
> Also quit porn and jerking off.
> 
> I still think she's cheating. I have seen people cheat in less than 5 minutes


I'll hold my hand up if I'm wrong but just don't see it. She is dead against cheating, always has been.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Birth control pills also kill a woman’s desire for sex I’m told. It’s better to abstain when ovulating than take hormones- agree?


Disagree. It's extremely difficult for most women to abstain during ovulation, which is why people laugh about it.
I haven't heard that birth control pills lower sex drive. I didn't have that experience. 
My son is the result of NFP, despite taking other measures, due to knowing I was in my fertile phase. Of course, I'm eternally thankful for him, but we took permanent measures after his birth.
I'm not against NFP, but it's not appropriate for people who can't deal with a pregnancy. For my husband and I, another baby wasn't planned for, but it also wasn't a something we couldn't handle either. NFP isn't appropriate for someone who is seriously ill or considering divorce, or etc.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months. I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & *lean in to kiss her but 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek. Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me"*. Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


Those are very unloving actions that smack of wanting to be loyal someone else. You really shouldn’t discount the possibility of there being another man in the picture. It can be a relationship that happens only a few times or could have been something that happened in the recent pass and then ended but she already detached from you. So many times after a woman’s affair, she is not able to sexually connect with her BH. I’ve read threads of some of these WWs, they describe being repulsed by their husband’s touch even months after affair ended.

You should definitely do your due diligence to rule it out. check all devices and phone history. Especially check any old devices she may have had around the time your parents stayed with you. 

Also, I want add myself to the list of those that recommend Athol Kay’s primer Married Man Sex Life. It’s a short read and has a LOT of practical advise that most men overlook in turns of improving themselves so that they can be more attractive to their wives. It’s a cheap fast read but can be a game changer for you.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Stating “facts” against your wife in an argument will always put you in the doghouse- even if said facts are true.


Only if she is a big, fat BABY. 

As a grown adult woman, I can handle being disagreed with...in fact, I would respect a man who was open and honest with me. It certainly wouldn't kill my sex drive for 18 months.

Only self-important, entitled princesses would react the way this woman has.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> Disagree. It's extremely difficult for most women to abstain during ovulation, which is why people laugh about it.
> I haven't heard that birth control pills lower sex drive. I didn't have that experience.
> My son is the result of NFP, despite taking other measures, due to knowing I was in my fertile phase. Of course, I'm eternally thankful for him, but we took permanent measures after his birth.
> I'm not against NFP, but it's not appropriate for people who can't deal with a pregnancy. For my husband and I, another baby wasn't planned for, but it also wasn't a something we couldn't handle either. NFP isn't appropriate for someone who is seriously ill or considering divorce, or etc.
> ...


I’d say “marriage” probably isn’t appropriate for people that aren’t prepared to welcome children into the world… my two cents.

Birth control pills are known to reduce testosterone… and likewise lower a woman’s drive: The Pill and Your Sex Drive


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Only if she is a big, fat BABY.
> 
> As a grown adult woman, I can handle being disagreed with...in fact, I would respect a man who was open and honest with me. It certainly wouldn't kill my sex drive for 18 months.
> 
> Only self-important, entitled princesses would react the way this woman has.


Oh sure, hubby sides with your mom in an argument against you and you’re cool?

im kind of joking around but do agree there is something seriously wrong here and hubby needs to figure it out asap.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'll hold my hand up if I'm wrong but just don't see it. She is dead against cheating, always has been.


I’m not saying she is or she is not cheating.

But one thing you need to understand is all cheaters are against OTHER people cheating and they are especially against someone cheating ON THEM. 

However they always find the mental gymnastics to justify why it is ok for them to get with someone that turns them on.

We have seen many cases here where people had far less evidence than you do where it turned out their spouse was getting down elsewhere. Especially when there are potential mental or personality disorders taking place.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Oh sure, hubby sides with your mom in an argument against you and you’re cool?
> 
> im kind of joking around but do agree there is something seriously wrong here and hubby needs to figure it out asap.


It would depend on HOW he disagreed with me, but I always want to know the truth about what my partner thinks. 

What I don't like at all is when someone WON'T talk to me about a problem...I can always handle open, real dialog about anything. I don't want silence or fake thoughts and feelings, especially not from my partner.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes she makes dramas out of numerous things. Just her behaviour. She doesn't speak to her parents as they 'kicked her out' when she was early 20's. I've never met them. She has no friends - seriously zero. She doesn't talk to my family anymore. My family want her included but she has distanced herself. She seems to alienate herself from everyone. I think her issues from her youth are affecting her today.


i have a clue, ALL parents "kick their kids out" in their twenties.
we feel that they need to learn to make it on their own. and in their twenties, if things do not go well right away they are young enough to be able to tough it out.

so she really should not be holding a grudge on her parents that way.

Did she, perhaps, jump into marrying you only because she had gotten kicked out, and you were a safe place to move into? might explain why years later she is acting like she does not love you....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not being invasive really. We had to live with my parents for 6 months & my wife got funny about my mum not doing any cooking & her having to do it all....which factually WASN'T the case. She created it the issue. My mum did her fair share.


Ok then this revelation begs the question of WHY you were living with your parents in the first place. 

Did you lose your job?

Were you/are you chronically unemployed or underemployed?

An argument over cooking with your mother doesn’t seem like something where someone would lose all sexual attraction and desire, but moving in with parents due to unemployment or financial irresponsibility is.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> We have seen many cases here where people had far less evidence than you do where it turned out their spouse was getting down elsewhere. Especially when there are potential mental or personality disorders taking place.


Sadly, it almost always turns out that way!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not being invasive really. We had to live with my parents for 6 months & my wife got funny about my mum not doing any cooking & her having to do it all....which factually WASN'T the case. She created it the issue. My mum did her fair share.


are you in a foreign country? India perhaps?
it sounds like there are some strong cultural issues here that the rest of us are not grasping.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d say “marriage” probably isn’t appropriate for people that aren’t prepared to welcome children into the world… my two cents.


I won't respond further, as this is a thread jack now.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Ok then this revelation begs the question of WHY you were living with your parents in the first place.
> 
> Did you lose your job?
> 
> ...


No we had to move in with my parents as the people we were renting from wanted the house back. We couldn't find anwhere local so my parents kindly offered to let us stay. We were there for 5 months before finding our current place.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Or someone who struggles with toxic shame.

Or someone with a personality disorder.



LisaDiane said:


> Only if she is a big, fat BABY.
> 
> As a grown adult woman, I can handle being disagreed with...in fact, I would respect a man who was open and honest with me. It certainly wouldn't kill my sex drive for 18 months.
> 
> Only self-important, entitled princesses would react the way this woman has.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> It was fine. We would have sex a couple of times a week. Got on well. The odd argument but nothing major. Just gone downhill a lot over the last 18 months sex wise. The other side of our relationship is as it was.


Honestly if there is a legit mental health issue going on here I might want to deal with that before trying to change her sexual behavior.

I don't know about mental health issues to take this with a grain of salt, but that should be the focal point.
I'm not sure about the impact of telling her you want more sex would be on her mental state.

Back to popcorn mode, this is going places I don't understand.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> Birth control pills also kill a woman’s desire for sex I’m told. It’s better to abstain when ovulating than take hormones- agree?


No agree, lol. My wife took birth control for about 14 years prior to us having children. Never impacted libido and no health issues. I think it is rather selfish to just say she should abstain when she desires sex the most. Pretty cruel actually.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Or someone who struggles with toxic shame.
> 
> Or someone with a personality disorder.


Very very true!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> i have a clue, ALL parents "kick their kids out" in their twenties.
> we feel that they need to learn to make it on their own. and in their twenties, if things do not go well right away they are young enough to be able to tough it out.
> 
> so she really should not be holding a grudge on her parents that way.
> ...


People have said to me is she with you for money but I doubt it. We split all bills down the middle & she never asks for money. She's very good like that actually. She can't get enough of me in everyway other than sex. Very confusing. It's like sex (or me regarding sex) doesn't interest her anymore


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it is rather selfish to just say she should abstain when she desires sex the most. Pretty cruel actually.


It might even be abusive or controlling when a free Jimmy hat will take care of it 98% effective.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Or someone who struggles with toxic shame.
> 
> Or someone with a personality disorder.


Why did you pick up on the personality disorder out of interest? The reason I said I thought she needed mental help was because I did endless research & it all came back to something called Borderline Personality Disorder. It fit her to a tee.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> People have said to me is she with you for money but I doubt it. We split all bills down the middle & she never asks for money. She's very good like that actually. She can't get enough of me in everyway other than sex. Very confusing. It's like sex (or me regarding sex) doesn't interest her anymore


I thought you said she doesn’t work??

How are you splitting the bills if she doesn’t work??? 🤔 

And if she doesn’t want you romantically/sexually, Then if she can’t “get enough of you” in every other way.... doesn’t that mean money?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't know why you were living with your parents, but that scenario probably had a lot to do with where you are now in your marriage. Your wife wasn't the woman of the house and that can be a problem, especially when dealing with a mother-in-law.

I think the break in your wife came when you told her that she had mental health issues. She probably took that as you calling her crazy and it upset her a lot, but that doesn't mean she thinks she's fine. 

I don't know how you communicate with your wife, but it seems like you keep everything inside for fear of her blowing up. You may not be afraid of your wife, per se, but you are afraid of her reaction and don't want to deal with it. Your wife easily manipulates you this way.

Your wife getting upset with you for wanting to to have sex with her is ridiculous. The fact that she made it out to be a bad thing is, well, kind of crazy. 

Honestly, I think your wife's mental health issues need to be addressed. I wouldn't send her to individual counseling, as it would take years for the therapist to get a good idea of what is going on. I suggest that you sit down with your wife, tell her that you love her very much, but something has to be done to resolve the obvious marriage problems you two are having, which are:
#1 She won't have a reasonable conversation with you about what is bothering you in your marriage.
#2 She has stopped having sex with you.

I would set up marriage counseling appointments before discussing this with your wife and tell her that you want her to go to counseling with you to resolve your marriage problems, so you two can get back into having a good marriage.

If she refuses, you need to do something to distance yourself from her bad behavior towards you. If you consider this divorce worthy, then plan for divorce. If you aren't going to leave her, then plan how you are going to live with her and without sex for the rest of your life. And I mean, really, make a plan. You can't continue sharing a bed with her, so you need to work out the sleeping arrangements and stop treating her like she is your loving wife, when she is most certainly not. And I'm not just talking about her refusal of sex either. I'm talking about the whole package.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I thought you said she doesn’t work??
> 
> How are you splitting the bills if she doesn’t work??? 🤔
> 
> And if she doesn’t want you romantically/sexually, Then if she can’t “get enough of you” in every other way.... doesn’t that mean money?


She gets money from the state at present but only in the last year. She was working up until then. Lost her job.

I mean she cuddles me, wants to sit next to me, hold hands etc. Calls me when I'm out. Always texting me.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She gets money from the state at present but only in the last year. She was working up until then. Lost her job.
> 
> I mean she cuddles me, wants to sit next to me, hold hands etc. Calls me when I'm out. Always texting me.


I really think she needs counseling, but going with you to marriage counseling would really bring out what is wrong more than her going to individual counseling. Her behavior is weird.

When you talk to her, she needs to know that this is a serious situation that you cannot tolerate any longer. If she refuses to deal with it and you think you will divorce over this, she needs to know that it's that serious. Give her every opportunity to resolve this. Also, let her know that you are not having your needs met this way and you can't continue physical contact with her when it's killing you inside. She is clearly not considering you or your concerns. That's not how marriage is suppose to work.

If she starts yelling, walk away. When she calms down, tell her that you are not going to tolerate being yelled at or spoken to rudely, and you are going to keep coming back to this until it is resolved.

I understand that you don't want to be fighting around your child, so if this continues after your child returns, you'll have to talk to her about her yelling and that she has to get control of herself.

She seems to have serious emotional regulation issues.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


You know what they call people who use "natural family planning?" Parents. 

Anyway, condoms don't make sex lousy for women. They might be for men, but women can't tell the difference. It's why "stealthing" is a thing. Also, hormonal birth control may have side effects for some women, but not all. And for a woman who doesn't want to have more kids not having a sure way to prevent pregnancy can be a real libido killer. 

Also, a couple of days a month is really misleading. In general, there is a good solid week in which a woman can get pregnant depending on a variety of factors. I think you should be very careful before giving out inaccurate and misleading reproduction advice.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> There is a name given to people who use supposed “natural family planning”. They are called PARENTS.


Beat me to it. It's a good punchline though.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You really need to ask her about why she has changed, and more importantly if she interested in getting back to how things were. Like tonight.

You've put this off for way too long.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> I really think she needs counseling, but going with you to marriage counseling would really bring out what is wrong more than her going to individual counseling. Her behavior is weird.
> 
> When you talk to her, she needs to know that this is a serious situation that you cannot tolerate any longer. If she refuses to deal with it and you think you will divorce over this, she needs to know that it's that serious. Give her every opportunity to resolve this. Also, let her know that you are not having your needs met this way and you can't continue physical contact with her when it's killing you inside. She is clearly not considering you or your concerns. That's not how marriage is suppose to work.
> 
> ...


I personally think she has Borderline Personality Disorder. Have you heard of it? I did endless research on mental health & nothing stood out then I found BPD & it was her spot on. Does anyone know more about it?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, how far are you prepared to take this?

Look...before I get into this, maybe I missed your answer: are you overweight? Is she? Does she climax during sex? Are you sure? Are you really sure? Are you really, really (you get the point) sure?

If you can't reasonably answer the above, just stop reading, because none of the below will help you until the above is addressed. If everything above is G2G, then continue reading.

If you are not ultimately prepared to leave should it not resolve, then don't bother. The only things that make this situation worse are empty promises and/or hollow threats, of which the threat of divorce is at the top of the list.

That said, things are not always hopeless. The trick is to stop allowing her to be comfortable in the midst of your own discomfort. Or another way of putting it: you are performing CPR on your marriage while she is distracted picking flowers...and you are allowing her to continue to do so. YOU are allowing it.

You need to have a deadline in mind to see if she comes around or not. I gave my wife 6 months, because things WILL get worse before they get better. She came around eventually, but it certainly wasn't in the first 90 days, which is why I made myself go 6 months. Those first 90 days were the darkest days of our marriage, but man, after years of sexlessness, I felt personally fantastic because I no longer held back how I felt about things...which was one of the things I had to dramatically improve in myself.

1. Put her on notice - Tell her one time...and one time only...that what is happening is not sustainable, and you already have one foot out of the door. Clearly state to her that her actions moving forward will tell you whether you return that foot inside the door, or let the other one follow the first one out.

Now give her around a month or so to see what changes, to include you resuming initiating sex. Don't over-initiate, and try to use cues as to whether or not you initiate on a given day, but you do need to initiate. You have stated the problem; now you must give her both the opportunity AND the space to step up.

In this time, you need to continue to meet her needs...cuddles, foot rubs, whatever it is that makes her feel loved in the relationship needs to continue, even if it drives you a bit nutty.

If she claims a medical reason, don't harass or pester her. Tell her in that initial conversation that you expect she will follow up soon with her GP to begin addressing the medical issue.

If things get better, great! Keep going. If not, time for step 2.

2. Prioritize yourself and your kid over her - Immerse yourself in your hobbies. Do daddy/daughter or father/son activities with your child. Be out of the house several nights a week. Go do things that are personally fulfilling. Check things off of your bucket list. Don't communicate with her your activities unless you really feel like it. Remember, your are now prioritizing yourself.

3. Deprioritize her - The things you do with her like cuddling, back rubs, squishing spiders, or other silly things that are important to her...stop some or all of them. Tell her you don't really feel like doing those things, then go do something that is important to you.

One big thing I stopped doing was calling my wife when I was on my way home to see if she needed anything, or to let her know if I was going to be late. This was a way that she felt valued and important in our relationship. When I stopped this, she lost her ****. My response?

"You have made it clear that meeting each other's needs in the relationship is optional. I have decided to embrace your position."

Or more simply:

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

I also got, "This is all about sex." This is a form of gaslighting because it ignores all of the things you have done (or continue to do) for her and the marriage as she attempts to mischaracterize your efforts, as well as trying to shame you back into accepting her position.

My response? "I'm sorry you feel that way. By the way, those jeans look nice on you, but they would look much better bundled up at the bottom of the bed."

The beauty in this overall approach is that you are accelerating where the marriage will eventually go if you continue on your current course, just at a far faster pace. Life is too short for anything else.

Keep in mind that any time she loses her ****, it is an opportunity to remind her that her efforts will dictate your efforts.

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

Any time she tries to mischaracterize, gaslight, shame, yell, or any other lousy behavior:

"I'm not okay with X (yelling, disrespectful behavior towards you, etc.)."

"I'm sorry you feel that way." Use this to disagree without engaging. Remember, this is not a debate. This is you stating your position.

"I see it differently." The same as above.

"Are you done?" Use this when you are about to repeat yourself.

"You do what you feel you have to do. I will do the same." Use this when she threatens things, such as taking you to the cleaners in divorce or taking your kid away.

But here is the thing, dude. Do not even bother if you are not willing to see it through. I can't emphasize it enough...if you are not willing to jump off the precipice, dancing at the edge and threatening to jump will do you absolutely no good.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I personally think she has Borderline Personality Disorder. Have you heard of it? I did endless research on mental health & nothing stood out then I found BPD & it was her spot on. Does anyone know more about it?


If she has borderline personality disorder, it will take a while before the therapist figures that out. It'll all go faster in marriage counseling. 

@somedayyouwillfindme, I recommend you look at the list at this link and see if your wife fits the description:








Borderline personality disorder - Symptoms and causes







www.mayoclinic.org


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

BlueWoman said:


> You know what they call people who use "natural family planning?" Parents.
> 
> Anyway, condoms don't make sex lousy for women. They might be for men, but women can't tell the difference. It's why "stealthing" is a thing. Also, hormonal birth control may have side effects for some women, but not all. And for a woman who doesn't want to have more kids not having a sure way to prevent pregnancy can be a real libido killer.
> 
> Also, a couple of days a month is really misleading. In general, there is a good solid week in which a woman can get pregnant depending on a variety of factors. I think you should be very careful before giving out inaccurate and misleading reproduction advice.


We don’t let our sons take steroids- we shouldn’t let our wives that hormones either.

I’m just saying NFP worked pretty great for my wife and I but for some reason everyone wants to disparage it… many have never tried it.

ok, leaving due to the complete threadjack I created.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Why did you pick up on the personality disorder out of interest? The reason I said I thought she needed mental help was because I did endless research & it all came back to something called Borderline Personality Disorder. It fit her to a tee.


Ok now it’s all coming together. The more you talked about her, the more it was sounding like BPD. 

Now keep in mind that none of us are mental health professionals and are not able to make any kind of diagnosis or treatments over the Internet.

If she is in fact a BPDer, you’ve got a whole lot of pain and frustration ahead of you. Dealing with her nuttiness is going to be a full time job and keeping her out of other men’s beds is also going to be a challenge. 

BPDers have two great crippling fears. One is being abandoned. But the other is being smothered and controlled and not getting their way all the time. 

They fear both intimacy and vulnerability as well as abandonment. 

They can be wild porn stars in bed in the opening acts of a relationship as they crave stability and security and bonding in their lives as they basically have none of those things.

But as the relationship does become stable and people start to have expectations of them, they panic and pull away as they are terrified of being smothered and consumed and having their own personal space and freedom stifled. 

A blind man can see how this can create inner conflict in them. 

This is like the computer in the movie War Games, the only winning move is to not play. 

My suggestion is if you want to live a life of peace and have a happy, healthy intimate relationship with someone capable of sustained intimacy, is to wish her well, get a decent custody arrangement and access to your child and wish her well.

She will lash out and do everything to rake you over the coals for dumping her and threatening to take away her gravy train. 

But the immediate chaos and destruction may be worth the years of peace and tranquility you might have once she latches on to someone else which could be in as little as a matter of weeks if she isn’t fat and is reasonably good looking. 

Just be aware that these are chicks that will slash your tires, report to authorities that you are abuse the child and assaulting her. They will even bash their faces into the corner of the sink and give themselves black eyes and stitches to get you arrested. 

But if she’s good looking, she will likely find some other simp relatively soon and will screw him like a wildcat until he signs on her dotted line and then she will be his cross to bear.

One of my buddies had one of these BPDers and once he got serious about splitting, she literally met someone in a bar and moved out of state in the course of weekend with the clothes on her back and what she could fit in her car and left all the rest of her stuff at his place. 

She signed all the divorce papers and such remotely. 

This is what you may be dealing with here


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I’m just saying NFP worked pretty great for my wife and I but for some reason everyone wants to disparage it… many have never tried it.


Dude you have TEN kids!!!!!! 😮 

If that is natural methods working well, then I’d hate to a failure!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Dude you have TEN kids!!!!!! 😮
> 
> If that is natural methods working well, then I’d hate to a failure!


Ok, I’ll shut-up. But it actually works! 😆


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> My suggestion is if you want to live a life of peace and have a happy, healthy intimate relationship with someone capable of sustained intimacy, is to wish her well, get a decent custody arrangement and access to your child and wish her well.


Definitely true words, but for me, I wouldn't D over this.
I know I'm old fashioned and I know it isn't always popular, but "for better or worse" means something to me and it's not like she could control this.

But oldshirt is right, that would be the way to be free of the burden and possible lifelong hell in front of you assuming this is what it looks like.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't get that from what you have posted thus far. Borderlines fear two things: abandonment and engulfment, with a razor thin margin between the two.

When I searched my wife's symptoms, it came up as BPD as well. News flash: my wife does not have BPD, nor do most people who have been "diagnosed" by an average Joe.

I mentioned it because the post I quoted alluded to there being one reason for her behavior, and while it was a part of the right answer, it was not the entire right answer. It was speaking generally rather than specific to your situation.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Why did you pick up on the personality disorder out of interest? The reason I said I thought she needed mental help was because I did endless research & it all came back to something called Borderline Personality Disorder. It fit her to a tee.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Ok, I’ll shut-up. But it actually works! 😆


Obviously it doesn’t


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No agree, lol. My wife took birth control for about 14 years prior to us having children. Never impacted libido and no health issues. I think it is rather selfish to just say she should abstain when she desires sex the most. Pretty cruel actually.


Oh brother, I’m cruel because I didn’t want my wife to take hormone pills? I’m not cruel, rather a fool for letting her lure me into fatherhood x10. I mean, have you ever had a houseful of kids running around, yelling and making messes? That’s cruel. 😆


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Obviously it doesn’t


Maybe birth control pills wreck a woman’s sexuality too over the long term… is that possible?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe birth control pills wreck a woman’s sexuality too over the long term… is that possible?


You know you're fishing here 🙂 for a response on that.

But you know the answer is yes, it can, but not in every case. 

I'll share DW was on BC for 7 yrs, no challenges, then I got snipped, no worries.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

Discussions about birth control and family planning are a threadjack, and have nothing to do with the OP's request for assistance.

Furthering that discussion in this thread will result in a loss of posting privileges.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't get that from what you have posted thus far. Borderlines fear two things: abandonment and engulfment, with a razor thin margin between the two.
> 
> When I searched my wife's symptoms, it came up as BPD as well. News flash: my wife does not have BPD, nor do most people who have been "diagnosed" by an average Joe.
> 
> I mentioned it because the post I quoted alluded to there being one reason for her behavior, and while it was a part of the right answer, it was not the entire right answer. It was speaking generally rather than specific to your situation.


I agree that she may or may not have borderline. Even if @somedayyouwillfindme (sywfm) thinks she has it, that doesn't mean she does. A therapist can diagnose.
I think what you did with your wife, @farsidejunky, worked well for you and is appropriate, but if sywfm's wife has borderline, I think your approach may be too much for her to handle. That's why I suggest insisting on therapy. If she refuses therapy, then your approach may be a last ditch effort he could try.
Sywfm, your wife has betrayed you by marrying you, then refusing to meet your needs in marriage. Your needs are natural and to be expected. I think she needs to understand that as well. She is expecting you to behave towards her as if nothing is wrong when she is behaving in a shockingly callous manner towards you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Oh brother, I’m cruel because I didn’t want my wife to take hormone pills? I’m not cruel, rather a fool for letting her lure me into fatherhood x10. I mean, have you ever had a houseful of kids running around, yelling and making messes? That’s cruel. 😆


No, you were cruel to make her carry and raise 10 kids. The toll that had to have taken on her body and psyche must be unimaginable.

I’m surprised that her OB/GYN doctor didnt fire her as a patient and refuse to be involved in any further pregnancies once it became clear that you were being completely irresponsible as that is also putting him/her at professional risk with the increased risks of complications endangering her health/life and those of the babies.

You joke about being seduced but it’s not funny. It was irresponsible and reckless. 

If you don’t believe in hormonal birth control fine. But you could have gotten snipped at any point.

I knew after the 2nd that pregnancy was taking a toll on my wife’s health and safety so I got snipped and had an afternoon of watching as much TV as I wanted with an ice pack and didn’t have to worry about it any more. 

Uncontrolled breeding isn’t cute, it isn’t romantic and it isn’t funny. It’s irresponsible and putting women’s health and safety in danger as well as the health and lives of the babies.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a Moderator:
> 
> Discussions about birth control and family planning are a threadjack, and have nothing to do with the OP's request for assistance.
> 
> Furthering that discussion in this thread will result in a loss of posting privileges.


Sorry. I was writing my last post as you were posting this.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@CatholicDad, I have started a thread where you can debate NFP to your heart's content: Natural Family Planning (NFP)


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> They can be wild porn stars in bed in the opening acts of a relationship as they crave stability and security and bonding in their lives as they basically have none of those things.


we have had a lot of bipolar women on tam, and a lot of men married to them here also. not recently, but a couple years ago.

i pretty much remember the sex in the marriage was non existant, but the sex she had with her affair partner was the "wild porn stars in bed" kind.

Something about the Madonna/w**** syndrome.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

If you don't want anymore kids, get a vasectomy. Yeah, it was absolutely nerve wrecking experience, but wasn't actually painful at all. My wife and the nurse got a solid laugh out of it.

I remember when she was going to get her tubes tied, but I saw how involved it was and said I will get snipped and take a few days off. She like really!

I took two prescribed valium one hour before and went in feeling pretty darn good. I am sitting there waiting when reality hit lol. He stuck the needle in to numb the area. I began to sweat and the doc asked if I took the Valium and my wife said he did, I was there. The doctor seemed shocked. 

Upon the first incision, I felt pressure and the boys decided to try and retract inside 🤣. My wife is holding my hand like a kid on the first day of school. The doc makes a cut and then starts burning the ends. I yelled out OMG! MY NUTS ARE ON FIRE! 🤣🤣🤣 The doc, nurse, and my wife all start laughing and my wife said I was in Valium heaven when I looked over like a kid and said its not funny! They have been my pals my whole life! 🤣

After the procedure, I went home and watched TV all day while the dog slept next to me. After two days, its like nothing happened. 

But the best part is she got to stop birth control which increased her sex drive. But if we go out for a night on the town and get it on in a hotel at home or whatever, there is no worry or fear the next morning.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> It’s called “Natural Family Planning” not “natural birth control” and it requires intelligence and self control. So yeah, wouldn’t work for you. 😂
> 
> Only kidding!!! … you just set this up too well to not crack on you.
> 
> Congrats on your daughter though- must have been meant to be!


It wasn't hard to learn how to do "natural birth control" and every woman should learn how to "track fertility" because most of the time women are clueless about how their cycles work. 

When my daughter was conceived we were kinda of ready for another child, so we relaxed a little bit. She was loved from the time I found out I was pregnant. I still have the charts showing when both my kids were conceived. 

I could have continued to use natural birth control, because I was very successful at using it, but we were done having kids. 

OP, sorry for the TJ.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She gets money from the state at present but only in the last year. She was working up until then. Lost her job.
> 
> I mean she cuddles me, wants to sit next to me, hold hands etc. Calls me when I'm out. Always texting me.


Sounds like she wants to be friends.

so divorce her and be friends.

let her know that you like sex and you want a wife who also wants it. Tell her you’ll be amicable and you both can still be friends.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

I’m gonna simplify FSJ’s post (but seriously OP, you need to read his post carefully and do all that stuff).

just like the rest of us that have gone through a dead bedroom, you need to get yourself to the point of having nothing left to lose. When you don’t care about the outcome, that is when things will happen. You will be able to follow FSJ’s words perfectly and you will find a good place - and it could be with your wife or it could be as a free man, but you WILL find a good place.

as long as you stay in limbo, you will continue to suffer. I know. I promise you, I know.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sounds like she wants to be friends.
> 
> so divorce her and be friends.
> 
> let her know that you like sex and you want a wife who also wants it. Tell her you’ll be amicable and you both can still be friends.


This ain’t wrong. 

Chicks friend zone dudes so they can bang sexier dudes all the time so it’s not like reinventing the wheel or anything.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks all. First off she is 41 & yes we have 1 child (12). I haven't brought it up before for 2 reasons. First was I thought it may pass by then before you know it time flies by & we're 18 months down the line. The 2nd is I'm certain her reaction will be one of anger at first (she suffers from anxiety) & her first port of call is to shout. I have held back as I needed a time where our son wouldn't be around for a sustained period as he doesn't need to come back in the middle of a potential heated discussion. This weekend he will be away for 5 days in total so I have time to talk just us 2.
> 
> There are no medical reasons why she won't be having sex. It just feels like it doesn't bother her at all that we don't have sex regularly anymore whereas me it does. My opening line was going to be "I love you, you're my wife, I naturally want sex with you.....I'm your husband, I assume you love me?, why don't you want to have sex anymore?". Not sure if that's the best but I thought it's to the point, honest & not horrible in any way.
> 
> She isn't seeing anyone else that I am certain of. She won't have the time & in our life I just know her seeing anyone won't be happening. Whether she masturbates is another thing? I assume she must do? Even if not weekly how can she go 18 months without doing it?


There is something seriously wrong with her. I have a friend whose wife did the same thing to him. She developed severe mental issues And cut him off from sex. She started sleeping in her clothes and wold not disrobe in front of him. He tried everything. He hit his limit and divorced her.

For the record she was catholic. From my experience catholic women appear to have more sexual issues that women from other religions as nuns in my youth taught women to fear the evil penis.

I would encourage you to tell her to seek help to get past this or file for divorce.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> There is something seriously wrong with her. I have a friend whose wife did the same thing to him. She developed severe mental issues And cut him off from sex. She started sleeping in her clothes and wold not disrobe in front of him. He tried everything. He hit his limit and divorced her.
> 
> For the record she was catholic. From my experience catholic women appear to have more sexual issues that women from other religions as nuns in my youth taught women to fear the evil penis.
> 
> I would encourage you to tell her to seek help to get past this or file for divorce.


It’s not that. Trust me, I know. I lived it.

It is not a fear of the penis. it is a severe case of shame. That is what they do to kids. They shame them into believing sex is bad. They make you hate yourself for even having one thought about sex.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> If I mention divorce it will just amp her anxiety up even more so won't be going down that route but I hear you. I will be using the talk to me like an adult line or not at all. I'll add in "if you respect me & our marriage enough you will talk calmly to me". To be blunt whatever she says won't hurt me as much as I'm hurting day to day from this now. Literally couldn't sleep the other night through a cross between anger & confusion. If we were alone I would have woke her up at 2 in the morning to tell her how I feel - she seems oblivious to it. I make witty remarks to her these day which probably doesn't help. I don't know....if she was to say something slightly sexy in an innocent way I'd turn in into a sexy joke almost as a dig at her. The other night on tv someone mentioned they hadn't had sex in ages* so I pulled a face which I'm sure she saw*


you’re your own problem. Scared she’ll shout? Holy smokes dude. 
scared if you mention divorce her anxiety will go up?
No.

you’re scared YOUR anxiety will go up.

unlimited excuses you’ve ALREADY made to accept this nonsense. Well, you’ve given yourself all kinds of outs. I wager your little talk (if it happens) will go nowhere and you’ll be sitting off in your corner with your digital pictures. Sorry for the 2x4 but geez, you are conflict avoidant to the EXTREME.

my advice: Until you make up your mind to stand up for yourself, you’re doomed. So just man up in a reasonable way and say this is what’s on your mind. We can work to fix it, or you’ll work to get out of the relationship.
Being honest isn’t a threat. Stating facts doesn’t cause anxiety. Constantly waiting for the other show to drop while doing absolutely nothing causes anxiety.

your wife has anxiety, isn’t happy, etc. Exactly what are you gonna make worse here by calmly stating your complaint in the marriage and either getting some cooperation, or getting out?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


That’s bad advice CD. And there’s not much lousy sex of any kind with people that love one another abd have healthy sex drives.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Birth control pills also kill a woman’s desire for sex I’m told. It’s better to abstain when ovulating than take hormones- agree?


Totally false


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Totally false


read the first paragraph of this… but hey, let your woman pop these pills for a decade at your own risk…









Birth Control Pill Could Cause Long-Term Problems With Testosterone


Researchers have published a new investigation measuring sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) before and after discontinuation of the oral contraceptive pill.




www.medicalnewstoday.com


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

i responded but just assume not getting involved in this crazy thread hack….


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> i responded but just assume not getting involved in this crazy thread hack….





Evinrude58 said:


> i responded but just assume not getting involved in this crazy thread hack….


we’ll come join us on the NFP thread, my brother.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.

I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.

I told her why I have been different towards her & I am missing sex with her. She predictably came back with "so it's all about sex then". I must add that this is a calm conversation to my surprise and no shouting was going on at all. I told her that it wasn't about sex it was about wanting to be with my wife. I don't want sex - I want my wife. She said women are different to men & have to be in the mood. I said I fully understand that men are different to women and then told her now understand that men are different to women and sex is important to men to feel close to a partner - more so for a man I would think. I said it seems that women don't need it as much as men to feel close but that's how it is. I'm not alone in that - it's a man vs woman difference that has been going on for 1000's of years. She also said she was aware when I go to kiss her I linger around expecting more. I said yes sometimes I do, but NOT all the time. Sometimes believe it or not I just want to kiss you - whether you believe it or not is your issue. She did state she was scared of getting pregnant which I instantly told her I was fine with & there are ways round these things. She suggested me going out to buy some condoms which was nice to hear. In my head she had zero interest in sex so for her to say it was a big boost. She also mentioned the big argument we had and she told me "in my head you had left that day" (rightly or wrongly I walked out & spent 3 days with my parents as I couldn't handle her outbursts at the time). I said "good for you that you think I left that day in your head - BUT IT IS IN YOUR HEAD. In reality I came back 3 days later & have been with you everyday since".

It was a good to the point discussion. I got a lot off my chest & I know she did too. I know what I'm going to do. I told her I will be approaching her to kiss her sometimes & regardless of what you think it is not purely for sex. We need to get things back on track & that is what I'm going to do from my side of things - I will not be made to feel guilty for wanting to kiss my wife. I ended it by saying I love you, we have a few days alone, Valentines Day is coming up so let's enjoy a nice meal out & draw a line in the sand. We will see what happens going forward. In my head as per the poster on page 7 I have to give myself 6 months maximum & see what happens. I will be breaking it down into smaller timeframes for certain things though - I will not be waiting 6 months for sex put it that way. I told her I've taken note of the faults you see in me & I will sort them out........ BUT - once I sort my side of things out I would hope you as a loving wife will want to be with me like before. I told her we have to meet halfway. I will sort mine out, I expect her to sort hers out & then I told her I expect her to want to have sex with me again. Expect might be the wrong word. I would like to think she would want sex again might be the better way of putting it. I told her I *EXPECT* it though. I was to the point last night & I feel better because of it!


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## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

You handled that like a Pro, good for you!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

redmarshall said:


> You handled that like a Pro, good for you!


Thanks man. Feels good right now


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sorry, this is so long, I stopped reading on page 6.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks all. First off she is 41 & yes we have 1 child (12). I haven't brought it up before for 2 reasons. *First was I thought it may pass by then before you know it time flies by & we're 18 months down the line*. The 2nd is I'm *certain her reaction will be one of anger* at first (she suffers from anxiety) & her first port of call is to shout. I have held back as *I needed a time where our son wouldn't be around* for a sustained period as he doesn't need to come back in the middle of a potential heated discussion. This weekend he will be away for 5 days in total so I have time to talk just us 2.
> 
> There are no medical reasons why she won't be having sex. It just feels like it doesn't bother her at all that we don't have sex regularly anymore whereas me it does. My opening line was going to be "I love you, you're my wife, I naturally want sex with you.....I'm your husband, I assume you love me?, why don't you want to have sex anymore?". *Not sure if that's the best but I thought it's to the point, honest & not horrible in any way.........*


You need to clear your head and get honest at least with yourself. 18 months with sex only twice does not fly by. You really don't want what you fear will be a confrontation with an angry woman. You need to be honest if you have any chance of succeeding. 

Your planned script will just get you into trouble. Speaking from experience, she probably is equally deeply unhappy with you and the way you have treated her, Her unhappiness and her interpretation of the way you have treated her may or may have nothing to do with reality. 

My advice to you is to not focus on the past. Tell her you want to focus you your future with her. There is no way she can undo the lack of sex over the past 18 months. All you can do in talking about it is make her feel like a failure as a woman and a wife and that will likely make her feel threatened and create what is called emotional flooding. That is where your adrenaline gets going and you ability to think comply and rationally disappears. A person gets into fight or flight mode, which is what you may observe as anger on her part. 

I wuld suggest you focus on the future of your relationship and your family. Tell her that now that you have dreams of being with her in a loving sexual relationship in 10 years when your son become 22 and probably leaves the nest. Ask her how the two of you can have more intimacy so you both feel cherished and fulfilled. Don't refer to your needing sex. Tell her that making love to her really has meaning to you and that it does make you feel much more emotionally bonded and close to her and that you miss that intimacy and closeness. 

There are two things you need to prepare for. If she gets emotionally flooded and just lashes out at you (fight or flight) then tell her the two of you need to take a time out and discuss this more after you have both calmed down. Tell her that you can come back to this conversation on a certain day (at least one or two days in the future).

The second thing you need to understand is that she has been your wife for a long time and knows all your hot buttons. She can and likely will say things to start a fight to divert the topic from how you want to discuss things to something she feels more comfortable with. You have the choice of suppressing your emotions to the point that you don't get angry and you don't yell or fight with her. If she says something hurtful to you, be the adult in the room and say that your marriage is too important to loose your temper over and that you need to discuss this with her. Tell her that you understand how har



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> but I hear you. *I will be using the talk to me like an adult line* or not at all. I'll add in *"if you respect me & our marriage enough you will talk calmly to me*". To be blunt whatever she says won't hurt me as much as I'm hurting day to day from this now. Literally couldn't sleep the other night through a cross between anger & confusion. If we were alone I would have woke her up at 2 in the morning to tell her how I feel - she seems oblivious to it. I make witty remarks to her these day which probably doesn't help. I don't know....if she was to say something slightly sexy in an innocent way I'd turn in into a sexy joke almost as a dig at her. The other night on tv someone mentioned they hadn't had sex in ages so I pulled a face which I'm sure she saw


You need to balance being the adult in the room, without coming across as her parent. After all she doesn't speak to her parents. The Sex Theapist who helped save my sex starved marriage once referred to my 60 year old wife at the time as behaving like a rebellious teenager during some of our therapy sessions.

She remembers all those witty comments and facial expressions. She knows you are unhappy. She knows your marriage is in trouble, she just doesn't know how to address it and she is hopping to avoid a confrontation she knows will eventually happen. If you put yourself in her shoes that is pretty threatening. You will really need to put yourself in Her shoes and do a lot of listening.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> *I'm not afraid of her in the slightest*. I just know what breaching these touchy subjects leads to....an afternoon of outright tension because of her reaction. Even a day or 2 sometimes. I've said so many times *just leave an argument but she can't. *So I'm not afraid of her I'm wary of having a couple of days of sh*t.


You really should read up on emotional flooding, maybe even have a one page summary to hand her if the two of you need time to calm down. And yes you should be afraid of her, not in a physical sense, but in the emotional damage she can do.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> You are right, you put it to the point. There is no reason why us as a couple or any 2 healthy adults should not be having sex. I will tell her nicely that *I miss sex *with her, I miss the closeness & how I want her. I'll then ask her why she *hasn't wanted sex *or to kiss me much over the past 18 months. I should of done it sooner I know but it's a start I guess


You are right you should have addressed this sooner. When you tell her that you miss sex, to her ears it may sound like you just need to ejaculate and use her body. If you tell her you want to make love so you feel emotionally bonded with her, it takes on a much different meaning. Think about the message you are going to tell her but from her perspective, not yours.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> *I haven't tried to initiate for 3 or 4 months*. *I had enough of being (as I viewed it) rejected*. I still occasionally go to cuddle her standing up & lean in to kiss her but 7 times out of 10 she will turn her head for me to kiss her on cheek. Sometimes we will kiss on lips & I try to kiss her more passionately but she pulls away. I used to try to initiate it up until 4 months ago by kissing her neck when watching a film. I never got much of a reactiom. Once she said "I know you're only trying to get sex out of me". Over time it drains me of energy & motivation so I go distant from her. Then all of a sudden I will get the urge to try again.


You know she is going to tell you if intimacy is so important to you, then why haven't you initiated anything in the past 3 to 4 months. How are you going to respond to that and come off as not part of the problem.

Yes, rejection hurts and it is natural to avoid initiating because of the fear of rejection. Have you ever taught her how she should "reject sex with you?" If you initiate on friday night and she really can't handle it, have you asked her to rub you chest, kiss you and tell you that you better get lots of sleep because she will either jump your bones in the morning or the following night? There are ways to make a "rejection" not seem like such a rejection.

One of the things you could do is to tell her with Valentines Day coming up and your failure to initiate intimacy and making love with her for the past seveal months that you understand that you are part of what needs to change. Tell her you apologize for your role in things, but that you want your future with her to be brighter and closer. You don't want to emotionally drift away from each other.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I haven't tried to rectify the situation. This weekend will be the first. I've never been in this situation & I really had *no idea what a fair timeframe to give her was. *After doing some research online this past week I can see I've given more than enough time & we would be deemed to be in a sexless relationship if we visited a sex therapist.⁷


What I was told was that for every year of problems you have with someone it will take at least a month of marriage counseling or sex therapy to get to the point that you see progress or know that progress is not possible. Your first hurdle will be getting her to go to a Sex Therapist. That was a big one for me. My wife looked at me and defiantly told me that she was not sexually broken and did not need to be "fixed." She told me that her problems were not sexual, even though she had told me that she never wanted to have sex with me again. She also would break down in near hysteria and say she was a sexual failure and that sex was the only thing in life she had ever failed at.

You need to tell her that some marriage counselors have extra training and become board certified sex therapists. They are just marriage counselore with extra training and since on of the problems in your marriage is a mismatch of intimacy that the extra training a ST has would probably help the two of you better understand each other and work toward a path forward.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> *Yes she makes dramas out of numerous things*. Just her behaviour.* She doesn't speak to her parents as they 'kicked her out' when she was early 20's*. I've never met them. *She has no friends - seriously zero*. *She doesn't talk to my family anymor*e. My family want her included but she has distanced herself. She seems to alienate herself from everyone. I think her issues from her youth are affecting her today.





somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not being invasive really. *We had to live with my parents for 6 months & my wife got funny about my mum *not doing any cooking & her having to do it all....which factually WASN'T the case. She created it the issue. My mum did her fair share.


*You need to come up with a plan to move into your own home/apartment, or whatever. * I understand from a later post that you have a different living situation now, but your wife could be afraid that she will have your current livng situation pulled out from underneath her at any moment. I suspect this is a big issue. Just like a dog will mark their own territory, your mother and your wife are in a battle for marking their territory, which includes you and the dwelling all of you live in. Think of your mom and your wife as two bull moose fighting for domenance of the herd. Your mom feels she it is her house and she should rule the roost, you wife wants to co-share responsibilities. Those "arguments" between them are not about nothing, they are about a lot of control and that is part of the problem. I think that this may be a big big part of her problem. She doesn't want this living situation to be permanent, she is refusing to make any friends or put down any roots, or even develop a bond with your parents. You need to give her a path out to a new living arrangement where she feels more in control.

There are probably all kinds of issues, from what if your parents hear the two of you making love, to if you stain the mattress from unprotected sex your wife will be embarrassed. Yes those are stupid arguments, to you, but may be big deals to a woman who really has not child/parent understanding of how adult children and parents interact.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> It was fine. We would have sex a couple of times a week. Got on well. The odd argument but nothing major. *Just gone downhill a lot over the last 18 months sex wise.* The other side of our relationship is as it was.


The last 18 months has been dominated by the Covid disruption world wide. Everyone's life has been disrupted. Most have cabin fever. Many have been financially ruined. Fear is rampant. As you talk to your wife, talk about how things are going to slowly return to "normal" how you want the two of you tow work for a bright future together. How you want to figure out a permanent living arrangement and start having fun with her and your son as a family. You also recognize that in 10 years you son may be in college or living as an adult on his own and you want your relationship with her as strong as it can be for when that happens.



somedayyouwillfindme said:


> *No we had to move in with my parents as the people we were renting from wanted the house back. We couldn't find anwhere local so my parents kindly offered to let us stay. We were there for 5 months before finding our current place*.


Have you ever thought that since your wife wss kicked out by her parents, that having to accept the "charity" of your parents and be in a situation where she may have had to relive the terror of being kicked out by her parents, could be part of your problem with her?

Do you own the place where you are living or are the two of you saving up for a home down payment? Again, you want to focus your wife and your conversation about the future, the future the two of you have together.

Good luck. You have a lot on your plate. Suggest marriage cousneling (with a counselor that has extra training in couples with intimacy problems. Focus on your future together and trying to make it better. Tell her that as the world is returning to what it once was, you want to rebuild your relationship with her. And by all means, do not be baited into an argument is she becomes emotionally flooded and gets in a fight or flight mode.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not afraid of her in the slightest. I just know what breaching these touchy subjects leads to....an afternoon of outright tension because of her reaction. Even a day or 2 sometimes. I've said so many times just leave an argument but she can't. So I'm not afraid of her I'm wary of having a couple of days of sh*t.


Tell her to meet you at a counselors office. Explain to the counselor how this is hurting you and the marriage.
Explain to your wife that you expect to discuss this roadblock/problem in your marriage without any shouting or anger. Explain that it’s a problem that needs to be resolved together in order to continue the marriage.
Don’t backpeddle or get weak - tell her what you expect and make sure she understands this IS part of being married to you.

You’ll have your answer if she refuses to work on the problem. A counselor can help guide the conversations and keep the tempo civil and solution based.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ah, she still resents you because you left after the argument. You abandoned her. You broke her trust. Makes sense. She likes you as a person, she likes your company, but not enough to have sex with you now. The pregnancy thing is BS. Expect duty sex with condoms.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

it sounds as if you scored a victory.
but you did not mention if you got laid that night, or even a hand job.
if you do not get laid today, i would say she bullshitted you, and it is not going to change.

actions speak louder than words. buy the condoms, but demand the sex start up again. If it does not....there is your answer! 
no more discussion after that


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks man. Feels good right now


I'm really glad for the conversation you had and I think it's a great first step.

Color me skeptical but this still feels "off" somehow.
Maybe it's just the way it's coming across in this forum format, I don't know.

Examples of my radar blipping:
"Men and Women are different" - Really? That's the go to argument? 2 years ago that wasn't the case.
" I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it." After 18 months she has no idea how you're different. hmm.
"She did state she was scared of getting pregnant" - BS. You can be intimate in many ways without fear of pregnancy if she had wanted. Maybe it's a genuine fear, but it doesn't explain the last 18 months of pushing you away in every sense.
"She also mentioned the big argument we had and she told me "in my head you had left that day" " - That might be true but it sounds like an afterthought. I expected that to be the main argument. hmm.

OP I really hope I have a broken radar but this sounds almost like desperate arguments to avoid and hide a real issue of some kind. Or maybe she's just not self-aware. I don't know.
Eyes wide open! I sincerely wish you the best of luck in the coming days/weeks and hope everything works out wonderfully.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> "She did state she was scared of getting pregnant" - BS. You can be intimate in many ways without fear of pregnancy if she had wanted. Maybe it's a genuine fear, but it doesn't explain the last 18 months of pushing you away in every sense.


My wife also has anxiety about getting pregnant that she either didn’t have or suppressed when she was younger. I agree with her that getting pregnant would suck.

It turns out when she’s actually horny she chooses to believe “dur science” or doesn’t care and when she’s not then I’m pretty sure you can only get pregnant if the ejaculate is going to the right place which can be avoided in many ways.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.
> 
> I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.
> 
> ...


This is a good start, but you need to do some reading about love languages. Yours and your wife's differ. In order to be successful, you both need to understand what the other one needs. It might help her understand where you're coming from.

My first wife's was different than mine. She liked sex. We could go weeks having sex every day and she enjoyed it all, but if it went a couple weeks or whatever without it, it didn't really bother her at all. My current wife is much more in-line with mine. If we go through a period where because of life, the kids, and everything, we don't have sexy time together, she starts to go a little crazy. So, don't let the "it's different for women" thing be a reason for her. She needs to acknowledge to be "it's different for me," not that it's different for women and she's using that as a crutch to abdicate her responsibility in the relationship.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.
> 
> I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.
> 
> ...


This sounds GREAT!!! It sounds like you handled it really well!!

The most important part is that you set up expectations and made them clear, to her and yourself.
Now you need to make sure you follow through, just like you handled this conversation, with care and being FIRM.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife also has anxiety about getting pregnant that she either didn’t have or suppressed when she was younger. I agree with her that getting pregnant would suck.
> 
> It turns out when she’s actually horny she chooses to believe “dur science” or doesn’t care and when she’s not then I’m pretty sure you can only get pregnant if the ejaculate is going to the right place which can be avoided in many ways.


It seems like that would be a pretty specific act (PIV) that she would avoid but everything else would be on the table. Is that the case? Or did she push you away in every sense with her having the expectation of where any intimacy would lead?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It seems like that would be a pretty specific act (PIV) that she would avoid but everything else would be on the table. Is that the case? Or did she push you away in every sense with her having the expectation of where any intimacy would lead?


Well in her case she also doesn’t like having my stuff leaking out of her for a while afterwards. So sometimes she’ll get particular about it I just grab a rubber. This has reduced her anxiety a lot. It also caused me to iterate though every major type sold and find the ones I like the best. I have probably tried maybe 10 different types.

If we go on a trip, she doesn’t want me leaving used rubbers in the trash so just raw.

She has many peculiar stipulations and things but I don’t care. I get her raw often enough that it’s fine.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Not having sex in 18 months is a problem after a week, much less months.

I haven't worn a condom in 30 years, to me that's a what for, wtf item. I'm long snipped. 

But we've worked out our pattern over really almost 40 yrs, 38 to be exact.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.
> 
> I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.
> 
> ...


Great start and step in the right direction. Good for you for finally saying something. Definitely look up info on responsive desire and spontaneous desire, and have your wife read some of it too. Her comment about having to be in the mood is straight out of the responsive desire playbook. She's right of course, but as a responsive desire person she has to realize she will probably never just be in the mood. She has to be willing to give you a chance to turn her on. Hopefully things keep moving in this better direction.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It seems like that would be a pretty specific act (PIV) that she would avoid but everything else would be on the table. Is that the case? Or did she push you away in every sense with her having the expectation of where any intimacy would lead?


if you read the lines, NO he did not get BJs and hand jobs every time she denied him other sex. she just cuddled (which actually is more like a form of torture if a guy is really horny),

She just stopped short of donning a dominatrix suit and locking his johnson in a chastity cage, but the effect was similar.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I told her I *EXPECT* it though. I was to the point last night & I feel better because of it!


And what did she say about it? How did she react to your expectations? Does she want to have sex? 

What kind of birth control are you guys using?


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## Schek (Jul 2, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.





CatholicDad said:


> I recommend Natural Family Planning for birth control (not the rhythm method, but not sure what they call it these days) where basically a woman learns to figure out the signs she’s ovulating (couple of days per month). Once learned it is very effective and empowering really. No hormonal birth control, condoms, or other stuff that makes sex lousy for women.


My brother (born after relying on the unreliable rhythm method) says "hello".
P.S. Condoms don't make sex lousy for women. Men who are lousy at sex make sex lousy for women.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.
> 
> I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.
> 
> ...


Well done.

Now give her the space to improve...or not. You will have your answer.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I want to mention that I am particularly impressed with your ability to acknowledge your own faults as well as to accept her opinions while respectfully disagreeing. 

It is an art, and it took me a long time to be able to do the latter without a hint of venom...which is absolutely necessary for the message to get through. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife also has anxiety about getting pregnant that she either didn’t have or suppressed when she was younger. I agree with her that getting pregnant would suck.
> 
> It turns out when she’s actually horny she chooses to believe “dur science” or doesn’t care and when she’s not then I’m pretty sure you can only get pregnant if the ejaculate is going to the right place which can be avoided in many ways.


And this hits right at the crux of the issue.

If she wants to have sex, she will.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Well done.
> 
> Now give her the space to improve...or not. You will have your answer.


indeed. you suffered with this for 18 months. but now, in a mere few weeks, you will have your answer.
but do not let her off the hook. look for actual improvements, not just talk.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> If she wants to have sex, she will.


Basically yes it’s that simple.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's all bulls to keep him quiet.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It's all bulls to keep him quiet.


You very may well be right. He will know soon enough.

This is not dissimilar to putting an employee on notice. 

It's hard to let them go without first telling them it's a real possibility, unless something particularly egregious occurs.

Either way, he has drawn his line in the sand. Now his responsibility is to hold the line and watch her actions.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread. I don't mind the harsh responses in fact they actually hit home how daft I have been. Sometimes when living through something day in day out & living the same daily routine it is hard to see how stupid you are being.
> 
> I ended up talking to my wife last night. I had it all planned for tomorrow but we were in bed late at night after putting our son to bed & she was snuggling up to me whilst I was on my phone (ironically talking on here) in a secret window but listening to Youtube at the same time. I was giving her nothing back from her cuddling me so she said "you're not the same person anymore". That was the final straw. I wasn't angry (well at myself maybe) so I calmly asked her how am I not myself? She couldn't really explain it. She said a few things that rang true so I said I will own those & I know they're my fault but the other things she mentioned I respectfully disagreed with and told her so. I told her she is entitled to her opinion but mine differs.
> 
> ...


I think you handled that as well as possible.
And I think you have cause to be open minded to a variety of possibilities.

What I think is of concern here is a number of things. One is there was an ‘event’ that fundamentally changed her attraction and desire for you.

Maybe it is all in her head, but it is still in your reality.

That incident and it’s fallout will need to be addressed. It’s not something that a package of condoms will correct.

And while she may be correct that a woman needs to be “in the mood”, But in order for her to get in the mood she must be open and agreeable to you getting her in the mood and you will need to have the approach and seduction and arousal skills and confidence to get her in the mood and aroused. 

Having The Talk will not make you attractive and seductive and nor will it make her horny and attracted to you. 

It is a good first step that you have each identified that there is a problem and that each at least initially seem to be open to addressing it. 

But this was a first step in a 10,000 mile journey. 

I still stand behind my initial assertion earlier in this thread that this situation will likely require professional assessment and guidance. 

This is a serious relationship issue that will require more than a Valentine’s Day card and dinner.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> It is a good first step that you have each identified that there is a problem and that each at least initially seem to be open to addressing it.
> 
> But this was a first step in a 10,000 mile journey.
> 
> ...


Here is the Readers Digest version of my above post.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So start initiating physical contact (kissing and touching) often.

Show her it leads to sex sometimes but not always.

She should expect that sex is part of the equation for marriage - and let her know if it’s not (in her mind) then the marriage has a HUGE problem and if she doesn’t intend to participate - then you need to consider your options.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme 

One thing you haven’t alluded to is what was the QUALITY and circumstances of the 2 sexual encounters that you have had in the last 18 months.

What were the circumstances and how did they come about? Were you begging and pleading and she capitulated a couple times?

Did she initiate?

Was she drunk?

Was she a hot and horny wildcat that tore your clothes off and ravaged you? 

Was she disengaged and laying there looking at the clock and telling you to hurry up and get it over with? 

Sometimes the quality and circumstances of the sex that has occurred says more than the fact it only occurred twice in 18 months.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Setting you up for hoops, setting yourself up for hoops…… it shouldn’t be that hard. You didn’t get any sex, you’re not going to in the future. Why, because as said, she doesn’t want any, with you at least, with nobody maybe.
Good luck, but I think you’re beating yourself head against a wall. That men and women are different is a bunch of hooey. Lots and lots of women want sex just like men. Your wife is the exception, not the rule. Keep that in mind, when you finally have enough of nothing.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

you can try today.
try making out with her. 
you can instantly tell if she is getting turned on or turned off by it.
if turned on, go for it...like today (i assume you immediately ran out and bought those condoms).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme
> 
> One thing you haven’t alluded to is what was the QUALITY and circumstances of the 2 sexual encounters that you have had in the last 18 months.
> 
> ...


Nah, there's just something way off. W has some personal reasons for the sexual desert created.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Nah, there's just something way off. W has some personal reasons for the sexual desert created.


Something is way off for sure. 

But sometimes when there is a sexual desert, it makes you wonder what the circumstances surrounding the two episodes of sex actually were. 

What was it about those two instances were different than all the other times???


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@somedayyouwillfindme, I'm glad that you and your wife were able to have a heart to heart about the situation. Being clear about your needs isn't a one talk deal. It requires you to remain firm in your conviction to resolve these issues. I recommend you compliment your wife on her remaining calm and having a reasonable conversation about something difficult. Encouraging her in what she's doing right is way more effective than discouraging her from doing something unhealthy. 

Something else that is important to communicate is that her being upset for you wanting sex is harmful. Sex is expected in marriage and should be a good thing. If it were indeed all about sex, this wouldn't have gone on for so long. Clearly, you aren't harassing her for sex. Based on your story, that's an extreme position for her to take. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Nah, there's just something way off. W has some personal reasons for the sexual desert created.


True that there is something way off. That said, it's not his concern to find out what that is.

It's his job to present pressure and influence to encourage her to find out what that is. Otherwise, any solutions will be temporary because she will have no buy-in.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, how far are you prepared to take this?
> 
> Look...before I get into this, maybe I missed your answer: are you overweight? Is she? Does she climax during sex? Are you sure? Are you really sure? Are you really, really (you get the point) sure?
> 
> ...


@farsidejunky is the gold standard for a man turning his marriage around.

As alien as you may believe some of those suggestions to be, I can assure you, they get results.

When you are doing it right, you have already accepted that there are only 2 outcomes; you're marriage improves. Or, your marriage ends. Either way, you win.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I wrote a book for you: The Dead Bedroom Fix.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Regarding the 2 times we have had sex.....both times it just started with us relaxing on the sofa with me cuddling her. The last time (4 months ago) my wife initiated it to my shock. She wasn't drunk & I came inside her. The sex wasn't great but it felt awkward on both our sides probably as it had been so long.

I know she loves me & I would be 99% certain she is not having an affair. I of course picked up a pack of condoms yesterday. She is on her period at the moment (& I know she is as I know her cycle). I'm happy to have a nice weekend & move forward from there. I have listened to the advice on here & I won't be letting up. I know what I plan do to. I will be kissing her, cuddling her & initiating sex going forward. Unfortunately this weekend just isn't it. I'm not wasting my time tip toeing around her anymore. I'll be to the point & initiate sex directly. Being open & to the point in our conversation worked well so I will be doing this physically too. I've learnt to not waste time being careful anymore. Take the bull by the horns.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know what I plan do to. I will be kissing her, cuddling her & initiating sex going forward. Unfortunately this weekend just isn't it.


Being on her period isn't an excuse to avoid kissing and cuddling.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Being on her period isn't an excuse to avoid kissing and cuddling.


No we've been cuddling all day. No problem there.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

one thing that always works.....
warm up some massage oil.
light some scented candles
play some soft mood music.
then giver her a full body massage, but AVOID her breasts and between her legs.
do that, slowly, one body part thoroughly, then move on to another. 
after about 40 minutes, if she is not begging you to do her...it is probably a lost cause


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> one thing that always works.....
> warm up some massage oil.
> light some scented candles
> play some soft mood music.
> ...


Let’s do a little mental exercise. Let’s say a 350lb bearded woman with bad breath and rotten teeth were try to lure you into the bedroom and trying to rub oil all over you in hopes you will push the fat rolls up out the way of her jay jay and dive in.

What will be your response to that?? 

Will her rubbing oil into you with the candles burning arouse and stimulate you into wanting to climb on her??

My point here is things like candlelight and massages and flower petals on the bed etc, are romantic and erotic for people that are already attracted to and desire each other and are comfortable with thought of an erotic encounter with each other.

When some one is not attracted to someone and does not desire them and is not sexually comfortable with their partner, overtures like this can very awkward and uncomfortable at best to actually traumatic and threatening.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@somedayyouwillfindme How did your Valentine weekend go?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme How did your Valentine weekend go?


Yes it went well. We didn't have sex but like I said I know she is on her period factually. We had some good talks, got closer. I've been listening to her & putting a lot of effort in my side of things. She said she was fearful of getting pregnant & that was a big reason she didn't want sex with me but didn't know how to bring the subject up with me which I fully understand. I think deep down maybe I was avoiding that conversation with her. She said she was happy for me to buy some condoms or pull out of her last minute. So the condoms of course have been ordered. We won't be alone again for a week & a half now (not this weekend but next) so I will see what happens then.

I've been kissing her & making things happen more since I started this post last week. The advice on here helped no end. I feel I hit rock bottom the day I came on here & literally had nothing to lose as I wasn't having any sex. Since then I have just been blunt & to the point with her which is working wonders. She is already talking about sex & wanting me. Just bad timing with the period. I understand a lot of guys like sex when their partner is on her period - unfortunately for me I'm not one of them!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She said she was fearful of getting pregnant & that was a big reason she didn't want sex with me but didn't know how to bring the subject up with me which I fully understand.


Do you really believe that? She'd rather inflict you pain than having a frank conversation about birth control?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes it went well. We didn't have sex but like I said I know she is on her period factually. We had some good talks, got closer. I've been listening to her & putting a lot of effort in my side of things. She said she was fearful of getting pregnant & that was a big reason she didn't want sex with me but didn't know how to bring the subject up with me which I fully understand. I think deep down maybe I was avoiding that conversation with her. She said she was happy for me to buy some condoms or pull out of her last minute. So the condoms of course have been ordered. We won't be alone again for a week & a half now (not this weekend but next) so I will see what happens then.
> 
> I've been kissing her & making things happen more since I started this post last week. The advice on here helped no end. I feel I hit rock bottom the day I came on here & literally had nothing to lose as I wasn't having any sex. Since then I have just been blunt & to the point with her which is working wonders. She is already talking about sex & wanting me. Just bad timing with the period. I understand a lot of guys like sex when their partner is on her period - unfortunately for me I'm not one of them!


What do you mean, you won't be alone together?

Also, the fact is you still aren't having sex. You could have that night in various ways. She didn't. What's that say?

You may be latching on to a hope, yet things are still the same. There may likely be yet another reason from her to not have sex.

My point is nothing has changed for you. Absolutely nothing.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What do you mean, you won't be alone together?


I mean our son will be with us for the next 9 days or so until he goes round grandparents at weekend. We are in a small flat to getting any privacy is tough going.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I mean our son will be with us for the next 9 days or so until he goes round grandparents at weekend. We are in a small flat to getting any privacy is tough going.


You have a bedroom. If a couple wants to have sex it will happen. Both would want to and would find a way. Many parents with kids have sex very regularly. 

Nothing has changed for you. Her actions are showing you that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You have a bedroom. If a couple wants to have sex it will happen. Both would want to and would find a way. Many parents with kids have sex very regularly.
> 
> Nothing has changed for you. Her actions are showing you that.


Totally agree... I think she is telling him a lot of bull...


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You have a bedroom. If a couple wants to have sex it will happen. Both would want to and would find a way. Many parents with kids have sex very regularly.
> 
> Nothing has changed for you. Her actions are showing you that.


She's always been like this. This isn't a new thing to coincide with her not wanting sex with me. Even when we used to have sex she felt awkward with our son in the next room. Not only that but our headboard is literally the other side of the wall to his bed. We shall see what happens. I have no problem with her feeling awkward when he is there. Yes a lot of couples feel fine still having sex in that situation but I would think at the same time a lot don't. I actually see her point of view with that. COMPLETELY different thing when we are alone though. That is when it affects me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She's always been like this. This isn't a new thing to coincide with her not wanting sex with me. Even when we used to have sex she felt awkward with our son in the next room. Not only that but our headboard is literally the other side of the wall to his bed. We shall see what happens. I have no problem with her feeling awkward when he is there. Yes a lot of couples feel fine still having sex in that situation but I would think at the same time a lot don't. I actually see her point of view with that. COMPLETELY different thing when we are alone though. That is when it affects me.


That's the thing I hope you'll realize. You're still not having sex. You didn't the other night, now you won't for a while. 

You're still not having sex. Reread a few times.

You've been put off again. Man, you've got to grasp that concept. 

It's most parents do, and its all parents in a good relationship M do, have a frequent and good sex life.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She's always been like this. This isn't a new thing to coincide with her not wanting sex with me. Even when we used to have sex she felt awkward with our son in the next room. Not only that but our headboard is literally the other side of the wall to his bed. We shall see what happens. I have no problem with her feeling awkward when he is there. Yes a lot of couples feel fine still having sex in that situation but I would think at the same time a lot don't. I actually see her point of view with that. COMPLETELY different thing when we are alone though. That is when it affects me.


There are plenty of intimate things you can do when she has her period and when there is very little privacy. The thing you need to do is to continue to have expectations that she should be meeting (just like you are doing for her). 

You have spent many years making sure she was comfortable. All that has gotten you is sexlessness. So if you are going to change that, she is going to have to be uncomfortable. That needs to be HER choice, but it has to happen.

If you notice her taking steps towards meeting your needs and improving things, GREAT. Go at the pace you are willing to go. But BE CAREFUL. The appearance of change IS NOT actual change. The reason posters are warning you is that your entire situation is VERY typical. And most sexless spouses say all kinds of perfect, encouraging things when they are confronted, but they rarely ever follow through. 

So be ready for that. If you are truly serious about your 6 month timeline for improvement, make sure you are keeping YOURSELF accountable to no longer accepting her excuses and allowing your sexual needs to be invisible to your partner. Sex is part of marriage. If she doesn't want to be sexual with you anymore, you don't have a real marriage.

She isn't magically going to start caring about and meeting your sexual needs just because you've "had a talk". If you aren't willing to make your own needs a priority in your marriage, you can bet she isn't going to be willing to either.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@somedayyouwillfindme,
I’m probably in the minority, but I believe your wife’s explanation about why she hasn’t had sex with you. She has been all in her head and not talking to you and working through these concerns, so they have gotten really big. She’s probably also convinced herself that you don’t really love her. Then she thinks all you want is sex, when that clearly isn’t the case. This is what happens when people go down the rabbit hole of self-pity rather than working through issues as they come up. It can get really ugly, like you are now seeing.

There are things you can do that will help. I think you can turn this around. You’re going to need your wife’s buy in, but I think you can make that happen. Here’s an outline of what I would suggest.

#1. You two are not operating as a team, nor are you facing your issues and working through them together. This is really the main problem that I can see in your relationship, based on your comments here.

Marriage is supposed to be two people joining their lives together. This means that you 100% have each other’s backs and are working to make things as good as possible for each other and for your marriage. Instead, you two have not even discussed basic issues, such as how many children you want and when, or contraception. This dynamic is counterproductive to having a close, loving, healthy marriage. You two are in serious trouble right now.

In order to resolve this, all obstacles to having open, loving communication and a healthy sex life should be removed. This happens by the two of you committing to work together to love and support each other to fullest extent, and by having loving, open, honest communication. When an obstacle comes up, you two can talk about it and find a way to get rid of it. Always, always, always come from a position of love and acceptance of each other. You lead the way, since you are the one who is seeking change. Make sure you tell her that you are committing to this challenge and ask her to join you.

#2. Like I always told my kids, sex causes pregnancy. Your wife seems acutely aware of this, but doesn’t know what to do about it. The only way to resolve this is if the two of you start to talk about what this means to each of you and how you are going to have a healthy, functioning sex life and either have another baby or prevent having another baby.

You two need to have some serious heart to heart talks about family and your expectations and desires about your family. Do you want more children? If you do, then plan when you’d like to start trying for another baby. If you are both on the same page about not having any more children, then talk about what you are going to do to make sure this doesn’t happen.

Condoms are not going to ensure that you don’t have another child. They are not that effective. The pull-out “method” is not really a method at all. It’s barely more effective than using nothing at all. If neither of you wants to have surgery or use one of the highly effective methods of birth control, then you will probably end up with another baby, or your wife will never have sex with you again. It’s that simple. This has to be resolved between the two of you, with you coming to an agreement together, or your marriage will never be healthy.

Your wife knows that condoms or pulling out are not effective means of avoiding conception. This will hinder her from being open to you sexually. Fear is a powerful motivator. Remove the fear and you are one step closer to resolving this.

#3. Privacy is a problem that can be resolved. Lots of people have sex with their kids in the house. This is normal. Either fix your headboard or get a new one. I recommend you get one that attaches to the wall rather than to your bed. An upholstered headboard with a lot of padding would be an excellent option. You could probably even make one as a project you two can do together. There can be an actual board, then some type of foam, followed by a layer of batting that is upholstered. The banging headboard needs to go, even if you can’t afford to get anything to replace it. No headboard is better than this.

You can also play music fairly loudly next to the bed to muffle any sounds.

#4. When you kiss and cuddle her, make sure you are giving love to her, not trying to get anything from her. If you work on the above measures and she is working with you, she will begin to do the same for you. There will be a flow of love back and forth that builds and sustains you and your marriage.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She's always been like this. This isn't a new thing to coincide with her not wanting sex with me. Even when we used to have sex she felt awkward with our son in the next room. Not only that but our headboard is literally the other side of the wall to his bed. We shall see what happens. I have no problem with her feeling awkward when he is there. Yes a lot of couples feel fine still having sex in that situation but I would think at the same time a lot don't. I actually see her point of view with that. COMPLETELY different thing when we are alone though. That is when it affects me.


Regarding your mentioning your headboard is against the son's room wall, I can share with you how DW and I solved that problem.

We got new br furniture, king bed etc, rearranged, and because the bed slats still shifted, squeaked in rythm, bed sliding across floor time to time, etc, I bolted everything, and I mean everything together.

Plus put 2x4 braces under the slats to the floor and using tapcons very securely screwed the braces to the floor. Viola. No moving or rattling bed.

Now, this was when my son and his new wife moved in with us for one year while they searched for and bought their first house. The important thing it was one yr almost to the day. 🙂.

Did our sex life suffer? Not at all.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I mean our son will be with us for the next 9 days or so until he goes round grandparents at weekend. We are in a small flat to getting any privacy is tough going.


Excuses. You still aren’t having sex yet you are making so much effort! Stop rewarding her bad behavior (she’s hurting you).

Her period is an excuse - take a shower together! You’ll have your privacy and it’s not messy! 

You seem to look for ways to excuse her ignoring your needs.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She's always been like this. This isn't a new thing to coincide with her not wanting sex with me. Even when we used to have sex she felt awkward with our son in the next room. Not only that but our headboard is literally the other side of the wall to his bed. We shall see what happens. I have no problem with her feeling awkward when he is there. Yes a lot of couples feel fine still having sex in that situation but I would think at the same time a lot don't. I actually see her point of view with that. COMPLETELY different thing when we are alone though. That is when it affects me.


Complete crap! I had sex with my exH every day. Kids didn’t get in the way of our time together.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> Excuses. You still aren’t having sex yet you are making so much effort! Stop rewarding her bad behavior (she’s hurting you).
> 
> Her period is an excuse - take a shower together! You’ll have your privacy and it’s not messy!
> 
> You seem to look for ways to excuse her ignoring your needs.


I strongly disagree with this. She has clearly stated what has been going on in her mind. Her reasons make sense. That's not an excuse for letting things get this bad, however. She should have been working to communicate with her husband and resolve the issues, but instead she stayed inside her head and things got worse.


Beach123 said:


> Complete crap! I had sex with my exH every day. Kids didn’t get in the way of our time together.


Not everyone is like you. Some people are very put off by thinking the kids are going to hear. That's why, in larger homes, most master bedrooms are situated for optimal privacy. Some are even on the other side of the house from the other bedrooms. Lots of people are nervous about this, especially when their kids make comments.
My parent's headboard was at the shared wall to my brother's room. It was not a happy situation for my brother.

If @somedayyouwillfindme takes on the attitude that his wife is nefarious in her intentions, demands sex, and ignores her concerns, their marriage will surely fail. Her concerns matter, but they are simply obstacles that have to be overcome *together*. This idea is that they work together to resolve these issues and recognize that both individuals have needs that must be taken care of. Waiting until your kid is spending the night elsewhere is not a solution. Fixing the bed, putting up padding to muffle noise, and playing some music will all help, but @somedayyouwillfindme must make it clear that their son being home is not a reason to stop having sex. It's not sustainable for a healthy marriage. Other things must be done to solve the problem and they both need to relax.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’ve never in my life heard of a married couple who don’t have sex when their kids are home. Clearly they exist. 

people find all kinds of ways to do things they WANT to do. She doesn’t want to do you, or she’d find a way.

ditch her and find a woman that wants you bad enough that she finds a way.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’ve never in my life heard of a married couple who don’t have sex when their kids are home. Clearly they exist.
> 
> people find all kinds of ways to do things they WANT to do. She doesn’t want to do you, or she’d find a way.
> 
> ditch her and find a woman that wants you bad enough that she finds a way.


But she will take the foot rubs and body massages. She finds time for that. 🙄


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> But she will take the foot rubs and body massages. She finds time for that. 🙄


Indeed


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

A lot of people are ruled by fear. It sounds like @somedayyouwillfindme has a wife with a lot of anxiety about all sorts of things. This is only made worse by not properly communicating, but with someday's help, she should be able to make improvements.
Cuddling and getting foot massages are not anxiety producing. Obviously, sex has been anxiety producing for her. I believe these fears can be addressed straight on and be resolved. I also still think that marriage counseling is in order to address her fears and so they can have help in building communication skills.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> A lot of people are ruled by fear. It sounds like @somedayyouwillfindme has a wife with a lot of anxiety about all sorts of things. This is only made worse by not properly communicating, but with someday's help, she should be able to make improvements.
> Cuddling and getting foot massages are not anxiety producing. Obviously, sex has been anxiety producing for her. I believe these fears can be addressed straight on and be resolved. I also still think that marriage counseling is in order to address her fears and so they can have help in building communication skills.


All rationale arguments to make and could very well be the truth here.

However, based on OP's description of events and discussion with her I remain unconvinced.

I was suspicious of how the initial talk went, and those doubts have only been reinforced by the actions since then.
Perhaps things will progress in the next couple of weeks, but honestly, I'm not optimistic that it will go like OP expects. I don't think the initial conversation was the real story. Maybe just parts of it. I don't have any alternative theories, only a red blip on the radar.

We will see (maybe).
I hope to be wrong here.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> All rationale arguments to make and could very well be the truth here.
> 
> However, based on OP's description of events and discussion with her I remain unconvinced.
> 
> ...


I really hope you are wrong. He's not going to find out until he gives it a shot. Even if she does have other things going on, my approach may be the thing needed to take the marriage into a new and better phase. I'm an optimist with a strong belief in redemption.

What I am positive about is that if he starts making demands, she's going to curl up like a potato bug and he'll never each her. Maybe Farside's approach will work, but I think it has to be tempered with consideration for her voiced concerns.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Offer a night away (or a weekend) at a hotel. Make it clear you both need time alone time together as a couple. See if she agrees to
Go. You’ll have your answer what her intentions are.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> Offer a night away (or a weekend) at a hotel. Make it clear you both need time alone time together as a couple. See if she agrees to
> Go. You’ll have your answer what her intentions are.


This is a good idea. 
Ask her to buy a negligee. If she's feeling shy, it can give her a little cover while still feeling sexy. Or you could sit on the couch together, after you son goes to bed, and find a negligee that she likes, then order it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I really think she isn’t telling this man the truth do he won’t leave her.  How many threads have we seen where the frigid wife finally tells the husband she never liked sex with him, forced herself, and just doesn’t care to force it anymore.

I will say in a positive note that she likes cuddling and touching….. usually the ones that hate sex won’t even touch their guy. But she doesn’t seem to like kissing him on the lips…. A bad sign. And all this crap about fear of getting pregnant—- they’ve had bc, shots, condoms—- for years. I think it’s just a red herring. Teenagers risk getting pregnant all the time…. Because they want sex.
She doesn’t. But won’t tell OP that because she is scared he will be able to make a informed decision about his “marriage”.
Jmo. I do wish You luck OP.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I really think she isn’t telling this man the truth do he won’t leave her. How many threads have we seen where the frigid wife finally tells the husband she never liked sex with him, forced herself, and just doesn’t care to force it anymore.
> 
> *I will say in a positive note that she likes cuddling and touching*….. usually the ones that hate sex won’t even touch their guy. But she doesn’t seem to like kissing him on the lips…. A bad sign. And all this crap about fear of getting pregnant—- they’ve had bc, shots, condoms—- for years. I think it’s just a red herring. Teenagers risk getting pregnant all the time…. Because they want sex.
> She doesn’t. But won’t tell OP that because she is scared he will be able to make a informed decision about his “marriage”.
> Jmo. I do wish You luck OP.


That bolded fact is the only thing that makes me think there is a chance here. There is still some physical affection being shown, so I think there is hope. When all affection is gone there is no coming back from it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She feels you left 18 months ago, are you sure she didn’t find someone else seeing how she views it. It wouldn’t be the first time a wife stopped having sex with her husband because she didn’t want to cheat on her boyfriend.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

One thing I would add about my wife is she is not happy with how she looks. Always has been since I met her. Again I think it goes back to her dad verbally insulting her as a child which my wife told me he did. It has stuck with her. But the fact of the matter is we used to have sex & now we don't (hardly at all anyway). She loves cuddling & holding hands so there is affection there. I firmly believe her when she says she loves me. What I don't think she is aware of is how different sex is to a man than to a woman & how for a guy sex brings you closer. 

I feel like I'm caught between a rock & a hard place. My wife is happy for me to buy condoms but also used the phrase "please don't pressure me". I feel like saying I have done the complete opposite for 18 months & given you much more space than the average man would (I would think). But if I say anything today it will change things after we have been getting closer over the past 5 days. I have to look at it as a long term change. Some poster on here said he was in a similar position to me, had the talk & then in his head he gave his wife 6 months. He stuck to his side of the bargain & she came round - now they are having sex regularly & they've both happier than ever. I'm actually just as annoyed with myself for letting it go on this long as I am with my wife. I should have sorted this 12 months ago but I didn't. This will be sorted one way or another within 6 months. I won't be letting up. The one main thing I have taken from all this - just be direct with her. Don't bottle it up & when I talk to her just be to the point. As 'Cynthia' said we haven't been communicating & both been bottling things up - she is 100% correct.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> She feels you left 18 months ago, are you sure she didn’t find someone else seeing how she views it. It wouldn’t be the first time a wife stopped having sex with her husband because she didn’t want to cheat on her boyfriend.


No she hasn't. I'd be 99% certain anyway. She just isn't like that to her credit.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would add about my wife is she is not happy with how she looks. Always has been since I met her. Again I think it goes back to her dad verbally insulting her as a child which my wife told me he did. It has stuck with her. But the fact of the matter is we used to have sex & now we don't (hardly at all anyway). She loves cuddling & holding hands so there is affection there. I firmly believe her when she says she loves me. What I don't think she is aware of is how different sex is to a man than to a woman & how for a guy sex brings you closer.
> 
> I feel like I'm caught between a rock & a hard place. My wife is happy for me to buy condoms but also used the phrase "please don't pressure me". I feel like saying I have done the complete opposite for 18 months & given you much more space than the average man would (I would think). But if I say anything today it will change things after we have been getting closer over the past 5 days. I have to look at it as a long term change. Some poster on here said he was in a similar position to me, had the talk & then in his head he gave his wife 6 months. He stuck to his side of the bargain & she came round - now they are having sex regularly & they've both happier than ever. I'm actually just as annoyed with myself for letting it go on this long as I am with my wife. I should have sorted this 12 months ago but I didn't. This will be sorted one way or another within 6 months. I won't be letting up. The one main thing I have taken from all this - just be direct with her. Don't bottle it up & when I talk to her just be to the point. As 'Cynthia' said we haven't been communicating & both been bottling things up - she is 100% correct.


Someday….

You know your wife better than anybody here…. What I will say is that we here on this board plenty of times about wives with body image issues being VERY sexual for some ego kibble they so desperately “need“ to make them feel better. Even when they are described a “a-sexual”. So when I read about body issues/not happy with how they look PLUS daddy issues (never felt good enough for the leading male figure in her formative year) that’s a big red flag to me…

I am not saying she is or will cheat…. I’m just saying that you have to find that thing she truly needs from you….

also keep in mind you are her husband all the compliments you give her are discounted by that factor & insults are multiplied by it...

sorry if these seems like a random bunch of thoughts but each one starts me down a rabbit hole.

one last thought/recommendation…. Go back and read your thread, then read all the post you disagree with or generally dismissed, again. See if you see a trend opening up, because the more details you reveal the more it seems you are dismissing the infidelity possibility too quickly.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Not, she really has you walking on eggshells and eating right out of her hand. You have no power in this marriage. You are so willing to please her low level of intimacy you buy into her crap behavior. 

Why isn’t SHE thinking of how YOU feel? I want to know! She needs to change!!! If she loves you it shouldn’t be this hard!!!

Don’t pressure me = I don’t want to have sex with you.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would add about my wife is she is not happy with how she looks. Always has been since I met her. Again I think it goes back to her dad verbally insulting her as a child which my wife told me he did. It has stuck with her. But the fact of the matter is we used to have sex & now we don't (hardly at all anyway). She loves cuddling & holding hands so there is affection there. I firmly believe her when she says she loves me. What I don't think she is aware of is how different sex is to a man than to a woman & how for a guy sex brings you closer.
> 
> I feel like I'm caught between a rock & a hard place. My wife is happy for me to buy condoms but also used the phrase "please don't pressure me". I feel like saying I have done the complete opposite for 18 months & given you much more space than the average man would (I would think). But if I say anything today it will change things after we have been getting closer over the past 5 days. I have to look at it as a long term change. Some poster on here said he was in a similar position to me, had the talk & then in his head he gave his wife 6 months. He stuck to his side of the bargain & she came round - now they are having sex regularly & they've both happier than ever. I'm actually just as annoyed with myself for letting it go on this long as I am with my wife. I should have sorted this 12 months ago but I didn't. This will be sorted one way or another within 6 months. I won't be letting up. The one main thing I have taken from all this - just be direct with her. Don't bottle it up & when I talk to her just be to the point. As 'Cynthia' said we haven't been communicating & both been bottling things up - she is 100% correct.


I would also be very clear with her that SHE is also pressuring YOU by forcing you to go without sex from your monogamous partner. So the "don't pressure me" goes both ways.

Also, she needs to understand that this isn't only her marriage, it's yours too, so she doesn't get to change the rules without your consent.

I also want to point out to you that my EX also loved cuddling with me. I was allowed to curl up next to him in bed or on the couch and hug him and feel his body, as long as I didn't touch anywhere near his genitals, and as long as I didn't expect it to lead to sex at all. 

But he LOVED that attention from me, because he controlled me and he felt worshiped by me. So when I hear that she loves cuddling, I see it as possibly she wants you to meet HER needs for physical contact but she also wants you on a leash. She is withholding access to her body from you, and is firmly established in the power position from atop the pedestal you put her on.

I don't think she is doing this to be hateful, it just makes her comfortable and happy to call all the shots and control you, so why would she want to give it up. This is what happens when you don't confront issues right away - she's had almost 2 years with things exactly the way she wants them...it's going to be more difficult now to shift this dynamic than it would have been 16 months ago.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would add about my wife is she is not happy with how she looks. Always has been since I met her. Again I think it goes back to her dad verbally insulting her as a child which my wife told me he did. It has stuck with her. But the fact of the matter is we used to have sex & now we don't (hardly at all anyway). She loves cuddling & holding hands so there is affection there. I firmly believe her when she says she loves me. What I don't think she is aware of is how different sex is to a man than to a woman & how for a guy sex brings you closer.
> 
> I feel like I'm caught between a rock & a hard place. My wife is happy for me to buy condoms but also used the phrase "please don't pressure me". I feel like saying I have done the complete opposite for 18 months & given you much more space than the average man would (I would think). But if I say anything today it will change things after we have been getting closer over the past 5 days. I have to look at it as a long term change. Some poster on here said he was in a similar position to me, had the talk & then in his head he gave his wife 6 months. He stuck to his side of the bargain & she came round - now they are having sex regularly & they've both happier than ever. I'm actually just as annoyed with myself for letting it go on this long as I am with my wife. I should have sorted this 12 months ago but I didn't. This will be sorted one way or another within 6 months. I won't be letting up. The one main thing I have taken from all this - just be direct with her. Don't bottle it up & when I talk to her just be to the point. As 'Cynthia' said we haven't been communicating & both been bottling things up - she is 100% correct.


I am going to tell you to do something that will be near impossible, but you need to try to do it anyway (FTR, I couldn't either...at least not well):

Don't over think this situation. 

Initiate when you want to. If you start to replay the "don't pressure me" bit before you initiate, you will talk yourself right out of doing it. 

As to the posters who keep saying he is walking on eggshells or similar:

That is only happening when he adjusts his wants based upon her conditions.

How do you avoid that?

Don't overthink it and pursue what you want. Pressuring (or pouting, getting angry, etc ) after she tells you no is not okay. But her feeling pressured simply because you are initiating? Not your problem...it's hers. 

Here is something you can try that had/has much success for us: When I want to have sex with my wife, I tell her about mid day. "I want you in lacy underwear and nothing else tonight." 

No matter her response, just smile and say okay. You are doing two things with this: one, you are giving her ample notice that you want sex. Two, you have an opportunity to blow through objections right away.

Her: "I have a headache."

You: "Orgasms fix headaches", with your best Cheshire Cat grin.
----
Her: "Maybe."

You, excited: "Awesome."

You get the point. She may still turn you down that night. If she does, it is but another data point towards your decision. 

Lastly, and most importantly:

It is not your responsibility to fix this situation. It is your responsibility to provide the right environment and the necessary amount of influence for her to choose to fix this on her own.







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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There is one other thing you need to memorize and be prepared to use. When she says she wants sex but isn't actually having any, give her this simple answer:

"It is hard to hear your words when your actions say something else entirely."

Then walk away and do something you want to do; any back and forth after that statement is typically unproductive. 

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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> Not, she really has you walking on eggshells and eating right out of her hand. You have no power in this marriage. You are so willing to please her low level of intimacy you buy into her crap behavior.
> 
> Why isn’t SHE thinking of how YOU feel? I want to know! She needs to change!!! If she loves you it shouldn’t be this hard!!!
> 
> Don’t pressure me = I don’t want to have sex with you.


Yep, dear Lord.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Her saying she wants sex but doesn’t take action - is the same as if you said you want to work but never made the effort to earn the money.

I think she knows you are a pushover. She will stall and stall - she doesn’t INTEND to give you sex - just more lies by using empty - manipulative words.

Does she earn enough money to support herself? I’d divorce her.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No she hasn't. I'd be 99% certain anyway. She just isn't like that to her credit.


This is what almost every husband says, my wife would never do that. Then they end up on a forum talking about how their wife cheated.

I real hope I am wrong, I would suggest checking into it all the same.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> Her saying she wants sex but doesn’t take action - is the same as if you said you want to work but never made the effort to earn the money.
> 
> I think she knows you are a pushover. She will stall and stall - she doesn’t INTEND to give you sex - just more lies by using empty - manipulative words.
> 
> Does she earn enough money to support herself? I’d divorce her.


In fairness, many said the same about my wife's intent as well. And perhaps they were right, albeit temporarily. Once she figured out she could no longer placate me with inaction, she had no choice but to contribute or lose me.

So while you may inevitably be right, this is a process, and skipping steps will ensure the marriage ends. 

A combination of patience in the process and stalwart boundary enforcement from him will reveal the truth. 

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> In fairness, many said the same about my wife's intent as well. And perhaps they were right, albeit temporarily. Once she figured out she could no longer placate me with inaction, she had no choice but to contribute or lose me.
> 
> So while you may inevitably be right, this is a process, and skipping steps will ensure the marriage ends.
> 
> ...


You are likely the best resource for this guy. I’ve always said one should seek advice from someone that’s good at something.
you turned it around.

I’m curious, though. Do you feel your wife enjoys and wants sex now? Or just does it and acts accordingly to keep you?
The latter would be hurtful to me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are likely the best resource for this guy. I’ve always said one should seek advice from someone that’s good at something.
> you turned it around.
> 
> I’m curious, though. Do you feel your wife enjoys and wants sex now? Or just does it and acts accordingly to keep you?
> The latter would be hurtful to me.


She does. 

She initiates about 1 in 4 times. She also occasionally makes statements like needing sex to get her anger at her day out, or wanting to be close after a particularly successful day for one or both of us. 

Our marriage is pretty dang good now, and not just in the sex department. The other day, when she was talking about a people challenge with one of her work subordinates, she actually said, "I thought 'what would FSJ do in this situation'". It was admiration without her trying to overtly admire. If you would have told me back in 2014 that I would see this from her in 2022, I never would have believed you. 

Is it perfect? Far from it. Do I still get turned down for sex? Maybe 1 in 20 times. But our marriage is connected. Sex isn't even the focal point for me any longer because everything else is connected. It is emotional intimacy. 

It is why I preach patience in these situations instead of outright divorce. Had I followed my own knee-jerk reactions, my marriage would have ended. Some wise posters here encouraged me to give it time. Those same posters also held my feet to the fire when I did dumb ****. I'm very thankful they did both. 

Back to the OP. Nobody can know what is really going on in his wife's head. We could all be partly right...or one of us...or none of us. 

She has to get to a point where she realizes she may actually lose him. She clearly desires to be close to him. That is incredibly important in this process, and is an indicator of hope from my purview. 

But at the same time, he actually has to be someone worth fighting for.

OP, ask yourself that question constantly in this process. If you aren't worthy of fighting for, you need to make yourself into that person. Start simple: always be honest in what you think, always do what you say you will, hold yourself accountable first, take care of yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally... Many others if you think about it. Use this time to simultaneously evaluate her and to strengthen yourself. 

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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> She does.
> 
> She initiates about 1 in 4 times. She also occasionally makes statements like needing sex to get her anger at her day out, or wanting to be close after a particularly successful day for one or both of us.
> 
> ...


I spoke to her again last night calmly, she started to get agitated a little due to her anxiety kicking in. I can see the signs these days - panic kicks in so she raises her voice as her heartbeat & anxiety is raising. She said she is feeling pressured by me. It started with us kissing goodnight on the lips & then me hanging around to kiss her more. She basically said I know what you are after (ironically factually I WASN'T as I had a bad headache & just wanted sleep). I said yes I did hang around a bit longer to kiss you & be closer to you - but that is all. She seems to think every time I kiss her more I'm after sex & like I said yes sometimes that is true but others I'm just showing you affection to try to get us back on track. I told her from my side of things I don't know whether I should kiss you or not sometimes but I will not apologise for it. I am being perfectly normal - it is YOU who isn't (I didn't say that last bit to her but I thought it at the time)

She outrightly told me she doesn't want sex with me at the moment which is no great shock. I said why & she said "I don't know". She said it was annoying her too as she loves me in every other way but lately sex wise I just don't do it for her. I stated "well if you don't know, imagine how I feel right now".

I can't make this anymore clearer - this is not to do with her cheating. Really, I have seen enough to know this is a deeper thing between us. I said do you think it was to do with the arguments we had & she said yes that may have something to do with it but she just doesn't know, she is just not feeling it recently but she loves me deeply & it is annoying her too. She also mentioned again she is very fearful of getting pregnant. Once again I said there are numerous options & I agree with you so if/when we get to that stage don't worry. Due to my wife having anxiety & (in my opinion) BPD she doesn't handle pressure well & she is getting pressure from other sides of her life right now. But that is no excuse. There will always be something so I told her I won't be made to feel bad for stressing her out.

I told her however I worded it it would come across as me pressuring her but in reality it is just me talking to resolve a problem in our marriage. I told her I don't just expect her to jump into bed with me next week & I am looking at this as a long term life fix. I said I will give her space.

I know numerous responses will be ditch her & move on but I ask you to relate this to your wife/husband & your life. If you loved them & your marriage/sex life was once great would you not give it a fair amount of time and throw everything you have to make it right rather than just pack your bags? I take @farsidejunky point of view that I have to get it in my head this is a long term thing & patience is needed over many months. Hopefully like him I/we will come out the other side.

@farsidejunky may I ask how long all this went on with you?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I spoke to her again last night calmly, she started to get agitated a little due to her anxiety kicking in. I can see the signs these days - panic kicks in so she raises her voice as her heartbeat & anxiety is raising. She said she is feeling pressured by me. It started with us kissing goodnight on the lips & then me hanging around to kiss her more. She basically said I know what you are after (ironically factually I WASN'T as I had a bad headache & just wanted sleep). I said yes I did hang around a bit longer to kiss you & be closer to you - but that is all. She seems to think every time I kiss her more I'm after sex & like I said yes sometimes that is true but others I'm just showing you affection to try to get us back on track. I told her from my side of things I don't know whether I should kiss you or not sometimes but I will not apologise for it. I am being perfectly normal - it is YOU who isn't (I didn't say that last bit to her but I thought it at the time)
> 
> She outrightly told me she doesn't want sex with me at the moment which is no great shock. I said why & she said "I don't know". She said it was annoying her too as she loves me in every other way but lately sex wise I just don't do it for her. I stated "well if you don't know, imagine how I feel right now".
> 
> ...


Let the BPD thing go for now. All it is doing is clouding your analysis. Additionally, having dated one, as well as having seen multiple BPD'ers in person and/or in threads, I just don't see it. At least, not yet.

As for your conversation, the time has come for you to stop initiating dialogue about it.

If she brings it up, no worries. Listen to her and state your point once. Then wrap it up. I found that the more my wife and I talked, the more opportunities she was using to tell me why we weren't having sex rather than how we were going to get back on track. 

That is why those scripted answers are so helpful; it makes your point and shuts down the ********. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It took about 4 months for our sex life to return to some semblance of normal, with me consistently meeting her needs. 

She continued to be ****ty in the resentment department, though.

So then I shifted gears and stopped doing for her.

It took another 8-10 months for her to understand that I would not invest in her without reciprocity. 

My go to statement for her (Thank you, Mem):

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

That said, we were battling through more than just sexlessness. It was a total lack of respect from her to me. That cuddling you talk about? We had none of that intimacy. 
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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> It took about 4 months for our sex life to return to some semblance of normal, with me consistently meeting her needs.
> 
> She continued to be ****ty in the resentment department, though.
> 
> ...


Ok great thanks. I will let go of the BPD side of things as like you say it is probably just adding more problems into my head right now. There is no proof she has it. The anxiety is a fact however. 

I'm gradually getting it clear in my head & these 2 big talks we had have certainly helped. I'm going to take a back seat for a while with the initiating as there is nothing more I can say on the subject & nothing more my wife can say now I assume. I will only be making things worse if I push (or if my wife thinks I am). It feels good to have months worth of feeling consumed inside now out in the open from both our sides I would hope. I'll continue with the cuddling etc as my wife is big on that & I have to take it as a positive thing. Must have been even worse for you by the sounds of it?.....but you sorted it over time.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So one thing I recommend is to not continually talk about this issue with her.

You told her already it’s a problem.

If one of her triggers is, “You never touch me physically unless you’re going to initiate sex.” My recommendation is to touch her frequently and explicitly do not initiate sex or get cute. Do the opposite of what she expects.

You already put her on notice and the ball is in her court to do something about it, or not.

Do more things for yourself and without her and begin to pull away slightly. If she wants you then she will come to you, and if she doesn’t well… you know what to do in that case.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Ok great thanks. I will let go of the BPD side of things as like you say it is probably just adding more problems into my head right now. There is no proof she has it. The anxiety is a fact however.
> 
> I'm gradually getting it clear in my head & these 2 big talks we had have certainly helped. I'm going to take a back seat for a while with the initiating as there is nothing more I can say on the subject & nothing more my wife can say now I assume. I will only be making things worse if I push (or if my wife thinks I am). It feels good to have months worth of feeling consumed inside now out in the open from both our sides I would hope. I'll continue with the cuddling etc as my wife is big on that & I have to take it as a positive thing. Must have been even worse for you by the sounds of it?.....but you sorted it over time.


While I understand the desire to avoid initiating to avoid her feeling pressure, it really isn't a very good idea.

One, at the end of the next month, if you do have to lower the thermostat on her, she can simply tell you she never declined sex. You don't want that to be true.

Two, that is continuing to subvert your own needs for the benefit of her. Setting yourself on fire in order to keep your partner warm is not okay.

Three, assuming you're not being manipulative or refusing to take no for an answer, remember that her feeling pressure for sex is not your problem. It's hers.

You need to initiate a few times during this next month or you will not have a clear path forward.





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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Let the BPD thing go for now. All it is doing is clouding your analysis. Additionally, having dated one, as well as having seen multiple BPD'ers in person and/or in threads, I just don't see it. At least, not yet.


I am going to mention this as a general point. 

It's been quite awhile since I read Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life" book, but one of the things in his book that I do agree with is if a couple has had an active and healthy sex life and now years later they don't, then things need to be looked at in a somewhat algorythmic approach and process of elimination. 

At the top of the list of things to consider and look into is any kind of medical/physiological issue that may be impeding the sexual response ie hormonal imbalance, diabetes, hypothyroidism etc etc

Once a medical/physiological cause has been explored (by an actual doctor) and eliminated, then look into any psychological issues ie mental illness, personality disorders, anxiety disorders, unresolved past traumas etc etc

Once that has been explored (by a mental health professional) and eliminated, then look into whether there is a 3rd party to where her affections have been transferred (which may or may not be a full blown physical affair. Even a nonreciprocated crush on someone else can bring the love life at home to a screeching halt) 

Once that has been legitimately INVESTIGATED with proper due diligence and has been eliminated, then look into relationship issues and moments of severe neglect or hostility etc etc

I can go on but you get the point, and I myself do not remember all of the exact steps or their proper order,,,

But the point here is no amount of communication or washing dishes or footrubs and couch cuddling will do any good if someone has a severe endocrine disorder or undiagnosed/untreated thyroid issue. 

No amount of discussions or dividing up who picks up and drops off the kids or is nice to inlaws if someone does have a personality disorder. 

And no amount of marital counseling and discussing relationship issues will matter if she is getting down with Sven From Yoga every Tues and Thursday after yoga class.

So if there is legitimate cause to suspect that there is a mental health issue at play here, that needs to be evaluated and addressed because if there is an undiagnosed/untreated mental health issue taking place, then having conversations and shoulder rubs on the couch is not going to have any impact. 

Now none of us here are shrinks and none of us are able to make that determination and say whether she does or does not have a personality disorder or mental health issue. 

But I can say that if there is reasonable suspicion that she is not behaving and not functioning as a normal, healthy person would in similar circumstance, then it isn't something that should just be taken off the table and not given it's due consideration. 

If she is BPDer and is not receiving proper professional treatment and therapy, then everything else is just spitting in the wind and she is going to continue to make life a slow motion train wreck regardless of how many nonsexual hugs and footrubs he gives her during the course of the day.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

One thing I keep seeing her say is that this is recent. This has been going on for a year and a half. This isn’t recent.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ABHale said:


> One thing I keep seeing her say is that this is recent. This has been going on for a year and a half. This isn’t recent.


No that is not recent and is a well entrenched dynamic.

And since there are several similar threads going at this time, I can’t remember if they have ever had a robust sex life or if this has always been an issue. 

If it’s always been an issue, then the chances of this ever turning into hot, monkey sex is pretty slim and none.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> While I understand the desire to avoid initiating to avoid her feeling pressure, it really isn't a very good idea.
> 
> One, at the end of the next month, if you do have to lower the thermostat on her, she can simply tell you she never declined sex. You don't want that to be true.
> 
> ...


100% agree with farside's take on this. You have to continue moving forward or this won't resolve.
@somedayyouwillfindme, A door needs pressure in order to open. That's not a bad thing. As long as you are not forcing or breaking it. The fact that your wife feels pressure isn't a bad thing. If she says she's feeling pressured, tell her that's because you are insisting on a solution and are not going to live in a sexless marriage.

It's good that she admitted a) that she doesn't want to have sex with you and b) that she's been thinking about this and doesn't know why and c) that it is bothering her. These things needed to come out in the open.

Tell her that you're going to fix the obvious things (bed squeaking, making it so the sound doesn't travel, etc., but she has to do her part, which means that despite her feeling pressured, you expect her to have sex with you, because again - you are not going to live in a sexless marriage.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ok I will keep doing what I'm doing. Keeping the pressure on her a little but nothing too much. It must be a good thing as had I not applied this pressure over the past week she wouldn't have said the things she said to me & opened up. However difficult it was for me to hear I'm glad I pushed her. Long term it must of done us both some good & relieved pressure in a different way ie the feelings we have both been keeping inside for months.

I will initiate at what I class to be the right times. I think I half frightened her saying what I said. It may have woken her up a little to how bad the situation has got.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If you need to beg someone to love you the way you need to be loved - it’s already over!

She is resisting any advances you make. She doesn’t want you! She doesn’t desire you.

There isn’t one single reason to spend one more day begging her to be a decent wife. 

She has no intention of being physical with you. Any attempts by you at this point are pathetic from her viewpoint.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Ok I will keep doing what I'm doing. Keeping the pressure on her a little but nothing too much. It must be a good thing as had I not applied this pressure over the past week she wouldn't have said the things she said to me & opened up. However difficult it was for me to hear I'm glad I pushed her. Long term it must of done us both some good & relieved pressure in a different way ie the feelings we have both been keeping inside for months.
> 
> I will initiate at what I class to be the right times. I think I half frightened her saying what I said. It may have woken her up a little to how bad the situation has got.


She hasn’t woken up to how she is mistreating you! IF she had a revelation she would have had sec with you right away! Since you use the EXCUSE that she is on her period - there is nothing wrong with her mouth right? There is nothing wrong with her hands right? 
When I was married we did it in the shower on my period - sometimes did anal as well but I always consider any form of satisfying him because I felt that part of our union was a top priority. 

She doesn’t consider your needs as a priority!

Once you get that through your head - you’ll realize she left the marriage more than 18 months ago.

Since she keeps making excuses when she knows you are hurting - there’s no way you can recover nicely from her rejections.

And that’s what it is. Rejections. When a woman REALLY wants to have sex with you - she does!!!!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

File for divorce. I bet she will suddenly have sex with you.

Does she work full time?
Can she support herself?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> File for divorce. I bet she will suddenly have sex with you.
> 
> Does she work full time?
> Can she support herself?


I'm not making excuses for her I'm just saying I know what is going through her head. She initiates a blowjob or handjob & in her head she will be thinking I would try to make it lead to full sex....which I would. So she has just taken that out the equation & a big awkward conversation. I've forced these conversations on her now.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not making excuses for her I'm just saying I know what is going through her head. She initiates a blowjob or handjob & in her head she will be thinking I would try to make it lead to full sex....which I would. So she has just taken that out the equation & a big awkward conversation. I've forced these conversations on her now.


Conversations mean nothing when the action isn’t in alignment with all these talks.

It still means nothing has changed.

If she has anxiety that’s ruling her life why hasn’t she been doing counseling?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Conversations mean nothing when the action isn’t in alignment with all these talks.
> 
> It still means nothing has changed.
> 
> If she has anxiety that’s ruling her life why hasn’t she been doing counseling?


She's on medication for it. I know nothing has changed but how can it change overnight? That is never going to happen in any situation. It takes time.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She's on medication for it.


If she is on anti-depressants, she probably doesn't have any libido, making things a lot worse. Your story is similar to mine. My wife stalled me for months (suffering from OCD and taking ADs and refusing therapy) and only when I threatened divorce she agree to duty sex twice a month. She did that for 10 years, detaching in the meantime. When it was time (no children left at home), she dumped me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> If she is on anti-depressants, she probably doesn't have any libido, making things a lot worse. Your story is similar to mine. My wife stalled me for months (suffering from OCD and taking ADs and refusing therapy) and only when I threatened divorce she agree to duty sex twice a month. She did that for 10 years, detaching in the meantime. When it was time (no children left at home), she dumped me.


And that is exactly what will happen here.

OP is wasting his time that could be spent with a partner that is sexually attracted to him.
A man shouldn’t have to beg his wife to have sex with him. This is something a man should not find tolerable with 4 billion women on the planet. She told him straight up she didn’t want to have sex with him. There’s no miracle cure for that. She’s on antidepressants, that’s likely the reason. She’s not going to get off them, or if she does there will be some other problem. My personal opinion is once a woman gets on antidepressants, a man should just expect this kind of stuff and move on.
Mental illness is a legit reason for divorce.
Let some other sap who is willing to be a eunuch take care of her.
Damn, I can get a hug from any grandma at the nursing home. Cuddling is great and all, but shouldn’t be good enough for a young man.

I’d put the brakes on this relationship if she’s unwilling to get off the antidepressants and get through the stresses of everyday life like most other people, and want a sexual relationship with her husband.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know nothing has changed but how can it change overnight? T


What you refuse to acknowledge is that NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE, not overnight, not next week, not next month, not next year, people with her condition seldom get better as they age, quite the contrary, they get worse. You are living in hopium, you are afraid, you lack strength and fortitude, keeping yourself paralyzed in fear, unable to do what you really need to do. The day of reckoning will come to you when she's the one leaving you.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> What you refuse to acknowledge is that NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE, not overnight, not next week, not next month, not next year, people with her condition seldom get better as they age, quite the contrary, they get worse. You are living in hopium, you are afraid, you lack strength and fortitude, keeping yourself paralyzed in fear, unable to do what you really need to do. The day of reckoning will come to you when she's the one leaving you.


One thing I've taken from this thread is how different people are. Some say they are positive it will work out & others like yourself say it is instantly doomed and to move on. I'm not saying either are right it's just interesting how different we all are.

I'm playing the long game, it's right for me at present. Like a couple of others on here have said they were in a similar position and it worked out for them. Is it fun? No. Should it be like this? No. But it feels right to me at present to give it a few months.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> But it feels right to me at present to give it a few months.


My take is not because I'm against giving time to resolve the situation. It is because from what I understand, your wife have mental illness, and the fact is that people with mental illness seldom if ever change for the better or get normal. The normal course of life is that for people with mental illness as they age, sadly to say, they get worse. So, in your situation you've been with this problem for quite some time. Do you think that a few more months will make a difference? Honestly I have not idea the extent of your wife's mental problems, but if I were a betting man, I would bet that you would just waste more time of your life. But hey, anything is possible these days, she could miraculously be normal again.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why isn’t she getting serious help from a counselor? 
Since just popping a pill hasn’t helped - why isn’t she seeking guidance on how she can overcome her anxiety/issues? People who want to change implement changes. She isn’t.

If nothing changes = nothing changes! 

That’s the part you don’t seem to understand. You keep being all understanding that she’s just staying the same. That’s not ever going to make things better.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I've taken from this thread is how different people are. Some say they are positive it will work out & others like yourself say it is instantly doomed and to move on. I'm not saying either are right it's just interesting how different we all are.
> 
> I'm playing the long game, it's right for me at present. Like a couple of others on here have said they were in a similar position and it worked out for them. Is it fun? No. Should it be like this? No. But it feels right to me at present to give it a few months.


Just realize you’ve endured 18 already and the only one unsatisfied with things in that time is you.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Why isn’t she getting serious help from a counselor?
> Since just popping a pill hasn’t helped - why isn’t she seeking guidance on how she can overcome her anxiety/issues? People who want to change implement changes. She isn’t.
> 
> If nothing changes = nothing changes!
> ...


I do get what you're saying. Fully. I made my feelings known for the 1st time 8 days ago. You're right nothing has changed physically in those 8 days. The dynamics have changed between us. It feels like we both got so much baggage off our chests in our 2 talks that we are starting to move forward.

Yes she hasn't seeked medical help you're right. I'm hoping our big chats may work. Maybe I'm wrong & it's just wishful thinking but at present things are moving in the right direction. I suppose you would have had to live with us first hand to notice & feel there is a difference.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes she hasn't seeked medical help you're right.


Can you help her with this? Make the appointment for her, drive her, etc?
That seems like a really logical step to take.

I for one appreciate you not blowing up this marriage at this point. You've been here for 8 days and gotten a ton of advice. Give that advice a chance.

Marriages and people are worth the effort unless hard lines are crossed.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I've taken from this thread is how different people are. Some say they are positive it will work out & others like yourself say it is instantly doomed and to move on. I'm not saying either are right it's just interesting how different we all are.
> 
> I'm playing the long game, it's right for me at present. Like a couple of others on here have said they were in a similar position and it worked out for them. Is it fun? No. Should it be like this? No. But it feels right to me at present to give it a few months.


Yes, definitely give it time, but during that time, keep pressing gently forward. Re-read farsidejunky's posts. His approach worked for him. He wasn't mean to his wife, but he made clear what his expectations were and he stopped enabling his wife's disrespectful and unloving behavior towards him. Make no mistake, your wife's attitude is disrespectful and unloving towards you. Basically, you have to stop rewarding what is hurting you.
For example, the cuddling is going to have to stop. She is getting her needs met, but it's making things worse for you. Stop cuddling with her. Absolutely do not rub her feet. You are lavishing her with attention and affection on her terms only. That is giving her the idea that it's okay for her to have expectations from you, but somehow a man wanting sex from his wife is weird or gross. It's not. It's normal.
Again, I'm not saying to be mean to her or to punish her. This is not about giving her consequences or punishments. It's about having a balanced relationship where both of your needs are being met. When one person gets everything they want without having to meet the needs of her spouse, it is unbalanced and unworkable. It is hurtful to you. Stop participating in what is hurting you.
Simply tell her that all this physical contact without it ever leading to sex is hurtful and you are no longer going to participate. 
This is assuming that her period is over by now.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Can you help her with this? Make the appointment for her, drive her, etc?
> That seems like a really logical step to take.
> 
> I for one appreciate you not blowing up this marriage at this point. You've been here for 8 days and gotten a ton of advice. Give that advice a chance.
> ...


Yes I will be suggesting speaking to someone. I'm not saying any of this is linked to that side of things but a good chance it is.

Yes I have to give it some time - you are right. I've been blown away with the amount of responses on here. I signed up 8 days ago & was hoping for a few people helping but all these responses have been something else! So helpful & given me a much better idea of how to handle things. Hope it all pays off.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> Yes, definitely give it time, but during that time, keep pressing gently forward. Re-read farsidejunky's posts. His approach worked for him. He wasn't mean to his wife, but he made clear what his expectations were and he stopped enabling his wife's disrespectful and unloving behavior towards him. Make no mistake, your wife's attitude is disrespectful and unloving towards you. Basically, you have to stop rewarding what is hurting you.
> For example, the cuddling is going to have to stop. She is getting her needs met, but it's making things worse for you. Stop cuddling with her. Absolutely do not rub her feet. You are lavishing her with attention and affection on her terms only. That is giving her the idea that it's okay for her to have expectations from you, but somehow a man wanting sex from his wife is weird or gross. It's not. It's normal.
> Again, I'm not saying to be mean to her or to punish her. This is not about giving her consequences or punishments. It's about having a balanced relationship where both of your needs are being met. When one person gets everything they want without having to meet the needs of her spouse, it is unbalanced and unworkable. It is hurtful to you. Stop participating in what is hurting you.
> Simply tell her that all this physical contact without it ever leading to sex is hurtful and you are no longer going to participate.
> This is assuming that her period is over by now.


This approach feels very transactional. Maybe that's needed now? I don't know, it's just not someplace I would be comfortable going.
Also this feels like an escalation of hostility rather than a meeting on common ground approach. Again, not someplace I would go.

Disclaimer: I have no experience with mental health issues and such as that. I could be way off base about this.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This approach feels very transactional. Maybe that's needed now? I don't know, it's just not someplace I would be comfortable going.
> Also this feels like an escalation of hostility rather than a meeting on common ground approach. Again, not someplace I would go.
> 
> Disclaimer: I have no experience with mental health issues and such as that. I could be way off base about this.


I agree that it sounds transactional. I'm not doing a great job of explaining it. Basically, he stops doing anything that is making him feel worse or that is enabling her bad behavior. Rubbing her feet is enabling her to continue behaving and thinking that she doesn't have to do anything for him. What if she expects him to fan her with palm fronds and feed her grapes? Of course, he's not going to do that, but yet he's rubbing her feet. Looks the same to me.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> his approach feels very transactional. Maybe that's needed now? I don't know, it's just not someplace I would be comfortable going.
> Also this feels like an escalation of hostility rather than a meeting on common ground approach. Again, not someplace I would go.


Deleted response. I thought it was the OP I was responding. Sorry


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> I agree that it sounds transactional. I'm not doing a great job of explaining it. Basically, he stops doing anything that is making him feel worse or that is enabling her bad behavior. Rubbing her feet is enabling her to continue behaving and thinking that she doesn't have to do anything for him. What if she expects him to fan her with palm fronds and feed her grapes? Of course, he's not going to do that, but yet he's rubbing her feet. Looks the same to me.


Either way given the mental health issues this approach might be the right thing. Traditional love, mutual respect, genuine affection postures may not apply here, especially to turn the ship around.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It sounds like the man has made every effort ALREADY to show his wife patience and love. She hasn’t responded in 18 months of that. He has no other choice but “pressure” her now. If she really had intentions of ever having sex with him, she wouldn’t be asking for “no pressure”. But I will be happy for OP if farsidejunky and others are able to guide him to a happier marriage. Im sooooooo skeptical, but I have been told I’d find a bucket of poo at the end of a rainbow, so I suppose I’m pessimistic in some areas.😊


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> This says it all. You are afraid. You are paralyzed with fear and don't dare to rock the boat. In time you will see where this will get you.


I'm not OP but I'm sure he'll get the point


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> It sounds like the man has made every effort ALREADY to show his wife patience and love. She hasn’t responded in 18 months of that. He has no other choice but “pressure” her now. If she really had intentions of ever having sex with him, she wouldn’t be asking for “no pressure”. But I will be happy for OP if farsidejunky and others are able to guide him to a happier marriage. Im sooooooo skeptical, but I have been told I’d find a bucket of poo at the end of a rainbow, so I suppose I’m pessimistic in some areas.😊


Yea I see your point, but I come back to OP being here for 8 days and getting a ton of advice that he didn't have before. Isn't that worth a little more time just to be sure? I mean why would anyone come here for advice at all if they never had time to actually try it.

Anyway, I don't disagree that your comments might be spot on and the rainbow OP is chasing ends in hell, I'm just hopeful by nature I guess. Maybe your hopium pipe is running low?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree, I just hope OP doesn’t give it years like a lot we’ve seen here. He’s living a hurtful life


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, there are a lot of calls for you to speed this up. They are not any more wrong than me in urging patience, because none of us have a crystal ball to tell you how it will end.

There are a couple of reasons why I urge patience.

First, the 18 months are a throwaway. You allowed those months to pass without repercussions, or even letting her know you were miserable. The clock didn't start 18 months ago; it started 8 days ago. 

Second, the fact that you didn't bring this up 15-18 months ago means you have improving to do. This time should be thought of as a tempering of the proverbial steel. You are simultaneously holding her accountable and making yourself a better partner for her...or the next woman in your life. 

Any more, people seem to think pain is something that should be ended at all costs. What they fail to grasp is that very few things force us to grow quite like pain. 

Use it. Embrace it. Learn from it. Allow it to show you what you do and do not want from life. Then, when you are done with it, discard it, having emerged from it as a better man.

You will know when it is time.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Can you help her with this? Make the appointment for her, drive her, etc?
> That seems like a really logical step to take.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe she is a full grown adult. 

I made doctor’s appointments for my kids when they got boo boo’s as minor children.

Now when my 20 year old daughter tells me she has a boo boo, I tell her she may want to see a doctor for that.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I'm not OP but I'm sure he'll get the point


Sorry, I apologize to everyone. I though OP made the statement. I did not see it was you. I retract what I said.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe she is a full grown adult.
> 
> I made doctor’s appointments for my kids when they got boo boo’s as minor children.
> 
> Now when my 20 year old daughter tells me she has a boo boo, I tell her she may want to see a doctor for that.


True enough, but how much does a mental health issue change that balance of responsibility.
And also how much effort is a man willing to go to (potentially) save his M. That's a personal Q for OP I guess.
I'm not suggesting he should coddle her every need for life.

If it were me, I'd want to do every reasonable thing in my power to make her and us right.
'Right' is an important word and it means something different to every M.

I hired a maid because my W doesn't like to sweep floors. It bugged me to death and I didn't want to do it.
So I removed that point of contention between us.
Op can remove his point of contention with relatively little effort if it's important to him.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe she is a full grown adult.
> 
> I made doctor’s appointments for my kids when they got boo boo’s as minor children.
> 
> Now when my 20 year old daughter tells me she has a boo boo, I tell her she may want to see a doctor for that.


This is exactly right.

If he does it for her, she has no ownership.

In a way, it is a test of sorts. If she does not pursue the medical side, she is showing clearly, through actions, that she isn't willing to make improvements. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> True enough, but how much does a mental health issue change that balance of responsibility.
> And also how much effort is a man willing to go to (potentially) save his M. That's a personal Q for OP I guess.
> I'm not suggesting he should coddle her every need for life.
> 
> ...


Ok but remember in this particular instance she doesn’t want to have sex with him. 


In your example to make it comparative to the OP’s situation, you would not have hired a maid to sweep the floor instead of her.

You would have had to make her appointments to see a shrink in order to determine WHY she didn’t want to sweep the floor and then to find a way to make her WANT to sweep the floor and then hope that going forward she would sweep the floor to your satisfaction. 

Do you see the dilemma there??

Otherwise to directly use your example, he would just hire a hooker or get a sugar baby.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> True enough, but how much does a mental health issue change that balance of responsibility.


The balance of responsibility changes when the person in question can no longer ttake care of themselves to where it poses a risk of harm to themselves or others. 

I believe we are a long, long way from that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And also how much effort is a man willing to go to (potentially) save his M. That's a personal Q for OP I guess.


I believe this is a big part of @somedayyouwillfindme dilemma.

My best answer to that is you give effort that is being sincerely RECIPROCATED and you are seeing actual ACTIONS AND BEHAVIORS taking place. 

So far it is just talk and no walk. 

No actual actions or behaviors have taken place that would have any effect on the situation.

All she has done is say that she will do something. She hasn’t actually done anything.

Therefor she is not reciprocating any of his efforts.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Ok but remember in this particular instance she doesn’t want to have sex with him.
> 
> 
> In your example to make it comparative to the OP’s situation, you would not have hired a maid to sweep the floor instead of her.
> ...


I see the dilemma as you describe it, but I don't think sex is the problem to solve. It's what OP wants for sure, but can't be pursued independently of other issues. Otherwise your hooker idea fits the bill and nothing else would be needed.

I think the no-sex thing is a symptom of a deeper relationship problem and seemingly emotional issues of some type on her side.
So my comparative scenario is acting to remove a point of friction in a relationship sense, not so much to solve a sex problem.

In my perfect world, fix the relationship and the sex comes with it. Fixing the sex without fixing the relationship is a problem with consequences eventually.

I don't know, I'm reeeally out of my wheelhouse right now with the mental health thing so I better chill.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I see the dilemma as you describe it, but I don't think sex is the problem to solve. It's what OP wants for sure, but can't be pursued independently of other issues.
> 
> I think the no-sex thing is a symptom of a deeper relationship problem and seemingly emotional issues of some type on her side.
> So my comparative scenario is acting to remove a point of friction in a relationship sense, not so much to solve a sex problem.
> ...


This is a very common narrative and often the standard for which a lot of marital counseling and sex therapy is based. 

I’m sure in many instances it’s true.

But what if it’s back asswards? 

I think a lot of sex issues produce relationship and emotional issues.

He hasn’t said what’s she’s anxious about or what their relationship problems are (other than not having a sexual connection)

Could she be anxious over the fact she has a home and family with a man she is not sexually attracted to and who’s touch she finds revolting? 

Could her anxiety and emotional distress be coming from the fact the man she finds sexually revolting is growing more and more frustrated and becoming more assertive in his want for a sexual relationship with her?

Could the relationship turmoil be being caused her fear of his sexual advances and his growing dissatisfaction and frustration over her rejection of him in his very core of how he gives and receives love and affirmation? 

Could she have a growing fear of his potential dissolution of their relationship and marriage? 

This is always kind of a chicken vs the egg type thing. 

Emotional and relationship issues can cause problems in the bedroom, but let’s not forget problems in the bedroom can cause emotional problems and relationship issues. 

Find couples that have great, mutually satisfying, hot, monkey sex and ask them how their emotional states are and how their marriage is and 99% of them will say GREAT!

Do they just happen to have hot monkey sex because the relationship is good? 

Or are the happy emotionally and have a strong connection because the sex is good?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

One thing I would like to add is my wife gets very jealous. Should a woman chat to me or even just walk in the shop near us when we're in there she gets uneasy. Obviously it's mainly if it's a young good looking woman but she has got uptight regarding me talking to older women too. From my part I really am just talking to them. I am not flirting & have no interest in them. My wife has questioned me on it before & said "you must find her attractive!?". My response is "I'm not intetested in her, yes I can tell the difference between a good looking woman & a not so attractive one....just like you can with men. But that is just human nature - they are no threat to you & I have no interest in them". Just thought I would add this as someone may pick up on it. It actually happened today so it shows (to me) she still cares deeply. Could it be linked to my wifes lack of confidence in herself?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would like to add is my wife gets very jealous. Should a woman chat to me or even just walk in the shop near us when we're in there she gets uneasy. Obviously it's mainly if it's a young good looking woman but she has got uptight regarding me talking to older women too. From my part I really am just talking to them. I am not flirting & have no interest in them. My wife has questioned me on it before & said "you must find her attractive!?". My response is "I'm not intetested in her, yes I can tell the difference between a good looking woman & a not so attractive one....just like you can with men. But that is just human nature - they are no threat to you & I have no interest in them". Just thought I would add this as someone may pick up on it. It actually happened today so it shows (to me) she still cares deeply. Could it be linked to my wifes lack of confidence in herself?


People often mistake jealousy for caring.

When a battered wife gets beaten by her abuser because she thanked the male cashier at the grocery store for the receipt, she tells herself he attacked because he loves and cares about her so much he didn’t want her getting with the cashier.

But it’s not love and caring, it’s insecurity, fear and control.

She’s insecure she’ll lose her meal ticket and provide to another woman because she knows she sucks and knows she isn’t the right match for you. 

So she figuratively give you a yank on your leash to keep you in line and under her control. 

If she desired you, she would be having sexual with you. 

If she loved you she would be advocating for your wants and needs.

And if she cared for you she would be trying with sincere effort and positive action to try to meet your needs.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would like to add is my wife gets very jealous. Should a woman chat to me or even just walk in the shop near us when we're in there she gets uneasy. Obviously it's mainly if it's a young good looking woman but she has got uptight regarding me talking to older women too. From my part I really am just talking to them. I am not flirting & have no interest in them. My wife has questioned me on it before & said "you must find her attractive!?". My response is "I'm not intetested in her, yes I can tell the difference between a good looking woman & a not so attractive one....just like you can with men. But that is just human nature - they are no threat to you & I have no interest in them". Just thought I would add this as someone may pick up on it. It actually happened today so it shows (to me) she still cares deeply. Could it be linked to my wifes lack of confidence in herself?


My cheating ***** of a wife was jealous right up till the day I fired her. 

Some would say it’s projection. OP you’ve said you’re 99% sure she’s not, so I won’t beat that drum.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> People often mistake jealousy for caring.
> 
> When a battered wife gets beaten by her abuser because she thanked the male cashier at the grocery store for the receipt, she tells herself he attacked because he loves and cares about her so much he didn’t want her getting with the cashier.
> 
> ...


Yes I understand that. She doesn't view herself highly at all & thinks that those other women are better. She has been cheated on in her past so that fuels the fire more I'm sure. I don't get into it much with her. I just calmly tell her I talk to those women exactly the same as when I talk to 80 year old ladies or guys I get talking to which is truthful. I have no interest in them in the way my wife thinks I do or in the way she acts.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I understand that. She doesn't view herself highly at all & thinks that those other women are better.


Let’s evaluate this a little bit.

For men, sexuality is often a deep, primal pathway for giving and receiving love, affection and acceptance. And even though men often feel pressured to deny it publicly, it is often their primary motive for being in a relationship.

Yet she is rejecting you sexually while still utilizing you for support, provisioning, lifestyle and all of the other benefits of marriage. 

So, if another woman were to desire you and provide that connection for you, then wouldn’t she in fact be better?

You wife knows darn well she is falling short.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would like to add is my wife gets very jealous. Should a woman chat to me or even just walk in the shop near us when we're in there she gets uneasy. Obviously it's mainly if it's a young good looking woman but she has got uptight regarding me talking to older women too. From my part I really am just talking to them. I am not flirting & have no interest in them. My wife has questioned me on it before & said "you must find her attractive!?". My response is "I'm not intetested in her, yes I can tell the difference between a good looking woman & a not so attractive one....just like you can with men. But that is just human nature - they are no threat to you & I have no interest in them". Just thought I would add this as someone may pick up on it. It actually happened today so it shows (to me) she still cares deeply. Could it be linked to my wifes lack of confidence in herself?


It does not SHOW (as in certainty) that she cares deeply, but it CAN mean that she cares deeply.

Or it could mean she simply does not want the competition.

Or it could be more nefarious. 

It can be one of many things.

Keep this one in your back pocket. If you do have to lower the thermostat on her, an afternoon disappearance without contacting her could be beneficial. I did it one Saturday afternoon, and my wife lost her ****. Upon my return, it was the first time I gave her the "if you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me" line. 

But it is premature for that...for now. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I've taken from this thread is how different people are. Some say they are positive it will work out & others like yourself say it is instantly doomed and to move on. I'm not saying either are right it's just interesting how different we all are.
> 
> I'm playing the long game, it's right for me at present. Like a couple of others on here have said they were in a similar position and it worked out for them. Is it fun? No. Should it be like this? No. But it feels right to me at present to give it a few months.


Different experiences bring different advice. Look up sexless marriage and the stories are heart breaking. 

Not trying to be a jerk but try this for a week. Stop all touching with your wife. When she complains about it simply say this is just a taste of what you have gone through for the past 18 months. She needs to understand the damage she has caused to the relationship.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> One thing I would like to add is my wife gets very jealous. Should a woman chat to me or even just walk in the shop near us when we're in there she gets uneasy. Obviously it's mainly if it's a young good looking woman but she has got uptight regarding me talking to older women too. From my part I really am just talking to them. I am not flirting & have no interest in them. My wife has questioned me on it before & said "you must find her attractive!?". My response is "I'm not intetested in her, yes I can tell the difference between a good looking woman & a not so attractive one....just like you can with men. But that is just human nature - they are no threat to you & I have no interest in them". Just thought I would add this as someone may pick up on it. It actually happened today so it shows (to me) she still cares deeply. Could it be linked to my wifes lack of confidence in herself?



Jealousy has nothing to do with loving or caring for someone. It’s a ugly emotion that destroys relationships.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

ABHale said:


> Different experiences bring different advice. Look up sexless marriage and the stories are heart breaking.
> 
> Not trying to be a jerk but try this for a week. Stop all touching with your wife. When she complains about it simply say this is just a taste of what you have gone through for the past 18 months. She needs to understand the damage she has caused to the relationship.


Agreed…stop rewarding her bad behavior.

SHE needs to start showing action that she actually cares enough to consider your feelings of rejection.

Have HER cater to you - instead of you catering to her.

When was the last time SHE gave you a massage? A back rub or foot rub? How about a BJ? Anything?

Stop catering to her. Let HER make up for her neglect.

And put a time frame on how long you’ll wait forever her to have sex willingly with you - if you don’t you could still be waiting patiently 5 years from now making excuses for her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I'm really split as to what to do. I fully see both points of views. 

1, I only mentioned my feelings 9 days ago so feels like I should be the best I can. Cuddle, hold hands etc. Meet her side of things then there is absolutely no reason she can give me that I will accept a few months down the line.

on the flip side....

2, Why should I. I see how I should hold back from everything she wants to make her come to me. Problem with that is it just feels like games to me. You do this & I'll do that kind of playground thing.

One thing I've already done is to arrange a couple of nights out with my mates next week in the evening which I will do more of. I can certainly pull back that way & go out leaving her at home on her own for a few hours. Yes I know that seems like game playing too but it really isn't like that. It's me getting on with things my side of things & getting some distance between us in some form. 

Maybe a mixture of both. Give her the cuddles but keep doing my thing more. That's not a problem as I have a good circle of friends so have lots of options to go out. I can up my gym visits too.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm really split as to what to do. I fully see both points of views.
> 
> 1, I only mentioned my feelings 9 days ago so feels like I should be the best I can. Cuddle, hold hands etc. Meet her side of things then there is absolutely no reason she can give me that I will accept a few months down the line.
> 
> ...


My advice is do what you want to do and do what feels normal and natural to you. I agree that game playing is not going to work and will probably backfire at some point.

Stop trying to mould yourself into something you are not in effort to get her into bed. 

If you want to cuddle and smooch her up on the couch because you want to and you like cuddling then do it. If she pushes you away or tells you to stop then get up and go do something else you want to do and that you enjoy.

If you want to have sex with her, make an honest and sincere initiation. If she says no or pushes you away, go do something else you want to do and that you enjoy. 

If she does consent to sex but just lays there looking at the clock and telling you to hurry up and get it other with, go do something else that you want and that you enjoy. 

Here’s where I’m going with this, she will either enjoy it and nature will take its course and you will have a close and intimate relationship.

Or she won’t and she will reject you and nature will take its course and she will either dump you because you are trying to do things she does not want.

Or if every time she rejects or pushes you away and you go do something else,,, eventually that something else that you enjoy is moving on to a new life without her. 

You will good time be doing other things with other people and eventually packing up and moving on and seeing other people that actually want to be with you and you will ultimately replace her with someone that actually wants to be with you.

Either way nature takes its course and what is meant to be - is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Here is something along those lines to think about - she has the right to dump you as well if she doesn’t want to be with you. 

Right now you are providing something that she wants from you ie money, support, security, stability. 

If she doesn’t want to have sex with you, that is her right and her perogative. She has free agency over her own body and her own sexuality.

You also have agency over your own body and sexuality so it is within your right to try to have a sexual relationship with someone you like and are attracted to. You have the right to try to initiate until the point she says no or pulls away or pushes you away or until you know in your heart she does not want to. 

Eventually one of two things will happen. One is you no longer get any enjoyment out of it and you quit trying and move on to something or someone else. 

Or she decides she no longer wants to be where a guy she is not attracted to is trying to get in her pants and she moves on to something or someone else. 

Right now you are trying to cater to do and are acting in a manner unnatural to you in order to appease her and make her comfortable in hopes that she will live and desire you.

That is creating a false environment where she is benefiting and you are suffering. You are being a fake, an imposter. 

She is accepting and exploiting that fake persona to her benefit while denying what you want and need the most. 

Bring your real, authentic self back and do what you want to do and be your natural self rather than the replicant that tries to appease her.

She will either fall in love with and desire your real self. Or she will reject you. 

If she falls in love with you and desires the real you - yay 😁 

If she rejects you, you will in a short amount of time no longer want to be with her and will want to move in to do other things with other people (including women who actually desire you) 

Breaking up is always sad and a pain in the butt for awhile.

But living a fake life and being exploited and used indefinitely is tragic.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

This keeps bugging me:

"We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc."

I believe you walked out after this as well?

So right after these shouting matches and name calling, no more sex; she lost her connection to you. 

What was it you said that was the last straw for her? Have you sat her down and asked her what it was that triggered this? Maybe I missed something.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm really split as to what to do. I fully see both points of views.
> 
> 1, I only mentioned my feelings 9 days ago so feels like I should be the best I can. Cuddle, hold hands etc. Meet her side of things then there is absolutely no reason she can give me that I will accept a few months down the line.
> 
> ...


So these are platonic cuddles, right?

I'm saying this not trying to be mean, but as a woman, I'm thinking, why would a man _in a committed sexual relationship like marriage_ withstand platonic cuddles for a year and a half?

And now you are planning on even more platonic cuddling?

This is something you might want to ponder. Perhaps your sex drive isn't as high as you imagine, if you were okay going a year and a half cuddling like nonsexual friends, and are planning on more of the same. Maybe you are okay in a non sexual marriage. 

I can't imagine any man I've ever been in a relationship with going on acting business as usual with no sex for that long.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think @Livvie raises a good point.

After laying things out with the talk the OP had and it’s a week later and nothing, I’d be planning my exit.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Going out with your friends is a great idea. Keep going out and doing your own thing. Work on becoming a better version of yourself. Workout, eat healthy, and take care of your appearance (haircut, beard, hygiene, clothes, etc). If after 6 months, she’s not stepping up to be a loving wife, then you’ll be emotionally and physically ready to move on.

As for your wife being jealous, that could be a projection of what she’s doing or has done. I still think something happened to get her to detach from you. I don’t buy the argument that you described as being the cause. Your description of how she is with you is textbook of a WW that’s detached from her husband.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think @Livvie raises a good point.
> 
> After laying things out with the talk the OP had and it’s a week later and nothing, I’d be planning my exit.


Personally, I would fix a deadline, for myself. If nothing happens, after xxx days, I'm out. That if you really care about sex and you can't do without. But maybe you can, since this has been going on for eons now...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> So these are platonic cuddles, right?
> 
> I'm saying this not trying to be mean, but as a woman, I'm thinking, why would a man _in a committed sexual relationship like marriage_ withstand platonic cuddles for a year and a half?
> 
> This is something you might want to ponder. Perhaps your sex drive isn't as high as you imagine, if you were okay going a year and a half cuddling like nonsexual friends, and are planning on more of the same. Maybe you are okay in a non sexual marriage.


This is a topic worth it's own thread and discussion. I do think there is something up with these guys that go years in sexless marriages. 

I believe a part of them does sincerely want to have sex. But what are they actually doing about it? 

I believe that on a core level people do what they want to do and find excuses for what they don't. How much does a man really want a sex life if all it takes to make him live a life of involuntary celibacy for a year and a half is for someone to say, "you just want sex." 

People have gone from being fat, lazy, soda-guzzling, pre-diabetic, couch potatoes to running Iron Man Triathlons in less than a year and a half. People have gone from being unemployed, homeless and living out of their cars to running successful businesses in less than a year and a half. 

So these guys are obviously playing a role in their own celibacy.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> This keeps bugging me:
> 
> "We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc."
> 
> ...


The argument started over nothing really. Honestly I cannot remember what even started it but it got out of hand as my wife was just pushing & pushing for an argument. I told her I thought she needed mental help. I said it just like that & I do believe she needs to talk to someone so I wasn't saying it to hurt her. So I think that comment is a huge part of all this. Maybe she knows it deep down?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> So these are platonic cuddles, right?
> 
> I'm saying this not trying to be mean, but as a woman, I'm thinking, why would a man _in a committed sexual relationship like marriage_ withstand platonic cuddles for a year and a half?
> 
> ...


These guys you have been with...were they in a marriage? I'm not saying it makes a difference but it's a bit different to casual dating someone.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The argument started over nothing really. Honestly I cannot remember what even started it but it got out of hand as my wife was just pushing & pushing for an argument. I told her I thought she needed mental help. I said it just like that & I do believe she needs to talk to someone so I wasn't saying it to hurt her. So I think that comment is a huge part of all this. Maybe she knows it deep down?


Unhinged arguments that blow a minor issue into a sexless marriage are common tactic that WWs use to avoid intimacy. That your wife doesn’t even want to kiss or hug is way more than anything having to do with meds. I really think you need to revisit what was going on just weeks before that argument. Check her old devices from that time. With your parents living with you for a few months back then, her being out could slip by unnoticed. 

You really need to dig deeper. TAM is full of threads that started with BHs who thought their wife hates cheaters, is conservative, is religious, is low drive, has no time, or had body image issues, who all later found out, yep, their wife had an affair.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Unhinged arguments that blow a minor issue into a sexless marriage are common tactic that WWs use to avoid intimacy. That your wife doesn’t even want to kiss or hug is way more than anything having to do with meds. I really think you need to revisit what was going on just weeks before that argument. Check her old devices from that time. With your parents living with you for a few months back then, her being out could slip by unnoticed.
> 
> You really need to dig deeper. TAM is full of threads that started with BHs who thought their wife hates cheaters, is conservative, is religious, is low drive, has no time, or had body image issues, who all later found out, yep, their wife had an affair.


The cuddling has not stopped. 

This is a prime example of replacing listening (or reading, as it were) with projection.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> These guys you have been with...were they in a marriage? I'm not saying it makes a difference but it's a bit different to casual dating someone.


I'm not going to try to speak for @Livvie as she has her own perspective and insight on that. 

But as a fellow male, I do not see any distinction between whether they were married or not. Her point is pretty dang universal whether the guys are married or not. Sexuality is a key component in an inter sex relationship,, otherwise it is just some weird kind of friendship or roommate situation. 

If you're not going to have sexual component, why not move in with one of your buddies or a cousin or coworker or something??? Then you could at least get out and date and potentially find someone for an intimate relationship. 

Whether a guy is casually dating or in an actual marriage, sexuality is a key component and critical criteria. It's like the ignition or transmission of a car, it may not be the only critical piece, but if it is not functioning, the car is not going to get anywhere.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The argument started over nothing really. Honestly I cannot remember what even started it but it got out of hand as my wife was just pushing & pushing for an argument. I told her I thought she needed mental help. I said it just like that & I do believe she needs to talk to someone so I wasn't saying it to hurt her. So I think that comment is a huge part of all this. Maybe she knows it deep down?


In a previous post you said you were living with your parents for several months and your wife accused your mother of not cooking and doing things around the house which you stated was not true and that you suggested to your wife that she be evaluated for a mental condition. 

If you believe she has mental/emotional/personality issues, have you pursued her getting evaluated any further or was that the last time you have mentioned that?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> In a previous post you said you were living with your parents for several months and your wife accused your mother of not cooking and doing things around the house which you stated was not true and that you suggested to your wife that she be evaluated for a mental condition.
> 
> If you believe she has mental/emotional/personality issues, have you pursued her getting evaluated any further or was that the last time you have mentioned that?


No I haven't mentioned it since. It's a very touchy subject which to me say's I'm hitting a nerve. I may be wrong of course but if someone told me I needed mental help it wouldn't affect me at all as I'm perfectly content I'm of sound mind.

Going back to a previous part of this I mentioned earlier which I don't think I made clear - regarding the side of things where other women talk to me - that has always got to my wife. That was going on back in the day when we were having sex 3 times a week. That isn't a new thing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I haven't mentioned it since. It's a very touchy subject which to me say's I'm hitting a nerve. I may be wrong of course but if someone told me I needed mental help it wouldn't affect me at all as I'm perfectly content I'm of sound mind.
> 
> Going back to a previous part of this I mentioned earlier which I don't think I made clear - regarding the side of things where other women talk to me - that has always got to my wife. That was going on back in the day when we were having sex 3 times a week. That isn't a new thing.


I think it's ok you are waiting... but why don't you give yourself some kind of timescale? Like, if nothing changes in 6 months, I will get out.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's ok you are waiting... but why don't you give yourself some kind of timescale? Like, if nothing changes in 6 months, I will get out.


That's exactly what I'm doing! Think I said it way back on page 3 or something of the thread! I said 6 months. That's a fair time for both of us to sort this out.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

As threads get longer, people can often times forget what you said... especially when they don't agree with your course of action.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think 6 months is totally reasonable IF she is actually making an effort to fix things. He hasn’t told her about the 6 months, I suspect. He should. She hasn’t made any effort that I’ve read about so far. If she stays on the AD’s, this won’t be fixed. At least try something different.

farsidejunky. Is your wife on antidepressants? Was she?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> I think 6 months is totally reasonable IF she is actually making an effort to fix things. He hasn’t told her about the 6 months, I suspect. He should. She hasn’t made any effort that I’ve read about so far. If she stays on the AD’s, this won’t be fixed. At least try something different.
> 
> farsidejunky. Is your wife on antidepressants? Was she?


A lower dose of generic Prozac, since 2008 or so. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

Prozac helped my libido. So everyone is different. if depression/anxiety is destroying your sex life, antidepressants can help.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Angie?or… said:


> Prozac helped my libido. So everyone is different. if depression/anxiety is destroying your sex life, antidepressants can help.


I’m learning. I wouldn’t have expected that


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That's exactly what I'm doing! Think I said it way back on page 3 or something of the thread! I said 6 months. That's a fair time for both of us to sort this out.


Sorry, I missed that! 😀


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> These guys you have been with...were they in a marriage? I'm not saying it makes a difference but it's a bit different to casual dating someone.


17 year marriage. 2 kids.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That's exactly what I'm doing! Think I said it way back on page 3 or something of the thread! I said 6 months. That's a fair time for both of us to sort this out.


6 MORE months of platonic cuddling?

How the f do you even do that? I'm still trying to wrap my head around it

If a man I was in a relationship with/married to didn't want to have sex with me and just wanted me to "cuddle " with him instead, but that's the extent of his physical offering to me, after a year and a half I wouldn't be into just "cuddling" with him anymore. That's something I do in a sexual relationship, and I wouldn't be able to fake that things were great enough between us enough to continue to do that. 

Ever heard the expression emotional tampon? When women use a man as her emotional tampon-- he emotionally supports her and listens to all of her problems and thoughts and issues, but she isn't into him sexually. So she's getting her emotional needs met but not offering him a real, intimate relationship. 

Your wife is using you as her cuddle tampon. You are meeting her cuddle needs that typically are only met in a sexual relationship, but SHE'S not offering you a full relationship. She gets her need met and you don't get a full relationship.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Your wife is using you as her cuddle tampon.


Hahaha 🤣


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> 6 MORE months of platonic cuddling?
> 
> How the f do you even do that? I'm still trying to wrap my head around it
> 
> ...


Yep


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm really split as to what to do. I fully see both points of views.
> 
> 1, I only mentioned my feelings 9 days ago so feels like I should be the best I can. Cuddle, hold hands etc. Meet her side of things then there is absolutely no reason she can give me that I will accept a few months down the line.
> 
> ...


I understand why it seems like playing games. Isn’t that what your wife has been doing for the past 18 months?

I feel like you left 18 months ago. Bull crap

It just about sex! WTF, you haven’t had sex or pushed/talked about it until this week.

If she had any desire for you, her husband, she would have been all over you.

She is playing a game of withholding sex from you. You made her mad so she is being a child and stopped having sex to get even?

I am going with she is having an affair and doesn’t want to cheat on him or her.

Maybe she has figured out that she is gay. She loves you like a brother but wants to be with a girl.

People don’t just stop having sex for no reason. I thought you left isn’t a reason. You were back in three days after things settled down.

The argument and you taking 3 days to cook off isn’t the reason for the past 18 months, it’s the excuse your wife is using.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Nor is this bovine excrement of the fear of pregnancy. Husbands and wives have sex and use birth control. That crap irks me to hear and I’m not even the one enduring forced celibacy.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

At the end of the day it could he numerous things. She isn't cheating or gay. I'm very confident on those.

I'm focusing on me more. I will continue to cuddle as it's no skin off my nose for a while and initiate sex. What comes of it who knows. I think it is her issues rather than me to be honest. Yes the argument & things haven't helped but this is a deeper thing kicking in I feel. She is so overly sensitive & 1 comment sticks with her for ages.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> At the end of the day it could he numerous things. She isn't cheating or gay. I'm very confident on those.
> 
> I'm focusing on me more. I will continue to cuddle as it's no skin off my nose for a while and initiate sex. What comes of it who knows. I think it is her issues rather than me to be honest. Yes the argument & things haven't helped but this is a deeper thing kicking in I feel. She is so overly sensitive & 1 comment sticks with her for ages.


🍻 Here to your plan working out.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One step at a time, dude. 

You have set your own timeline. Now execute the plan regardless of how your emotions may swing. 

Trust me when I tell you that getting rejected will cause you to want to accelerate that timeline. You must resist that urge. 

Have the discipline to see your plan through...even if it means divorce at 6 months. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> One step at a time, dude.
> 
> You have set your own timeline. Now execute the plan regardless of how your emotions may swing.
> 
> ...


Do you advise continuing for the next 6 months giving the wife what SHE wants, 100% meeting her daily cuddle needs, platonically, while there still is no sex?

I thought you stepped back from 100 giving your wife the perks she wanted while you were in sexlessness ?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Do you advise continuing for the next 6 months giving the wife what SHE wants, 100% meeting her daily cuddle needs, platonically, while there still is no sex?
> 
> I thought you stepped back from 100 giving your wife the perks she wanted while you were in sexlessness ?


I wouldn't, no.

I would advocate for one month of unequivocally meeting her needs without reciprocity, while still attempting to initiate. 

At the end of that month with no change, I would lower the thermostat for the remaining five unless I saw some changes. 

At the end of six, I would be done. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think in general the 6 month deadline is fair. I mean let's be realistic here, there are some serious issues taking place here and the fact that he noticed this for the past 18 months probably means that in reality things have likely been going off the rails for a couple years or more. You don't have a conversation one weekend and are swinging from the chandeliers the next day. This could take many months or even years of professional MC or sex therapy to get things to a minimum acceptable level and likely never to a passionate and uninhibited level. 

So I think the concept of 6 months is fair but with a few caveats. 

One is do not disclose the deadline to her at all or even let her know there is a deadline. Anyone can fake anything for 6 months. She can screw you every way but sideways until August 11th and then turn the spigot off on Aug 12th and never touch you again. Then what are you going to do?

And also you are going to have to have some kind of measurable criteria in place to actually determine if can live with it or not. 

Are you going to cuddle on the couch until August 11th and then decide? 

What if she rides you like a big white horse on August 10th? Does she get a Stay of Execution? 

Things wax and wane over time. Even in a normal, healthy marriage there are good days and bad days. Some days you are looking up divorce laws in your state and taking inventory of your stuff determining what you want to take and what you want to get ride of. (Side Note: I was at a point a year or so ago, I was looking at apartments and went through my clothes and stuff and took a few trash bags full of old clothes and household items to the Salvation Army and was getting ready to list some other stuff on Ebay) 

And finally what are YOU going to do for those 6 months?????? Are you going to be trucking along as normal and cuddling on the couch and doing your normal daily routine and being the good little simp and beta provider to her and then wake up and decide what to do on August 11th? 

OR are you going to be taking action and actually doing things to change and improve your situation? Are you going to be going to MC? Are you going to be having some heart to heart discussions? Are you going to be trying to determine your role in this and taking accountability and changing some of your behaviors and actions? Are you going to be trying to initiate a sex life or are you just going to keep holding hands on the couch?

Are you going to be seeing a lawyer to determine what your rights and responsibilities in a divorce will be? Will you be drawing up divorce papers so they are ready to file on August 12th if she doesn't respond? Will you be looking into custody arrangments and child support laws so you know what your paternal rights and responsibilities are? Will you have your stuff packed, the moving truck reserved and all the boxes ready to go on August 12th? 

I think in general, 6 months is fair. But you need to be putting some serious thought into what those 6 months are going to mean and what you are going to be doing with those 6 months and just exactly what kind of changes there need to be by August 11th and how you are going to get there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She isn't cheating or gay. I'm very confident on those.


I had to chuckle when I read this.

I've had two different women leave me for other women in my past. 

Both of them were screwing me senseless right up until they told me it was over and that they were with someone else, each of which they were seeing on the down-low.

So in other words, I had two closeted lesbians cheating on me and leaving me for other women...... but we had great sex lives right up to within a couple weeks of when the axe came down.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> I think in general the 6 month deadline is fair. I mean let's be realistic here, there are some serious issues taking place here and the fact that he noticed this for the past 18 months probably means that in reality things have likely been going off the rails for a couple years or more. You don't have a conversation one weekend and are swinging from the chandeliers the next day. This could take many months or even years of professional MC or sex therapy to get things to a minimum acceptable level and likely never to a passionate and uninhibited level.
> 
> So I think the concept of 6 months is fair but with a few caveats.
> 
> ...


I had to quote this. The ONLY way forward is for OP to be proactive throughout the 6 month testing period. DEFINITELY do NOT tell your wife anything about your plans. Be very busy improving yourself into the man you know you should want to be. That has to include being busy outside of the house bonding with other men doing activities that can help you re-find your inner warrior. The guy who wouldn’t stay in a sexless relationship fir 6 months out of fear. 

How your wife reacts during this period determines if 4 months in you engage a lawyer and lay your legal, financial, and Custodial plans into action. At the 6 month mark, you will be a fit, attractive, confident man who has grown his social circle, improved his career, and who is either enjoying his wife’s renewed sexual vigor or a man that’s looking forward to enjoying life as as a newly divorced man.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Do you advise continuing for the next 6 months giving the wife what SHE wants, 100% meeting her daily cuddle needs, platonically, while there still is no sex?
> 
> I thought you stepped back from 100 giving your wife the perks she wanted while you were in sexlessness ?





farsidejunky said:


> I wouldn't, no.
> 
> I would advocate for one month of unequivocally meeting her needs without reciprocity, while still attempting to initiate.
> 
> ...





jsmart said:


> I had to quote this. The ONLY way forward is for OP to be proactive throughout the 6 month testing period. DEFINITELY do NOT tell your wife anything about your plans. Be very busy improving yourself into the man you know you should want to be. That has to include being busy outside of the house bonding with other men doing activities that can help you re-find your inner warrior. The guy who wouldn’t stay in a sexless relationship fir 6 months out of fear.
> 
> How your wife reacts during this period determines if 4 months in you engage a lawyer and lay your legal, financial, and Custodial plans into action. At the 6 month mark, you will be a fit, attractive, confident man who has grown his social circle, improved his career, and who is either enjoying his wife’s renewed sexual vigor or a man that’s looking forward to enjoying life as as a newly divorced man.


@somedayyouwillfindme 

What Livvie, Farside, Jsmart and I are telling you, is do not sit idly by cuddling on the couch for 6 months and then on August 12th try to decide what to do. 

By then you will be an even more scared, broken-down, desperate beta simp who will desperately hoping that she might hold your hand some time in the next month while you sit on the couch trying to appease her. 

It's ok to have a 6 month move-out date but start taking affirmative action NOW. Start working towards building yourself and your life up so when August 12th arrives, you move into your new place and lay the lumber to your new girlfriend. 

Ok OK if your own value system and moral compass don't include a girlfriend until the ink on your divorce is dry, that's fine. 
But my point is you will be more scared, more desperate and more betatized if you sit doing nothing waiting to see if she will come around in 6 months vs starting to take action today and using that 6 months to fix yourself up and prepare for your future. 

If you don't take action and you don't change anything,,,,, then she won't take any action and she won't change anything. 

In order for things to change, things have to change. 

In order for people to change, people have to change. 

Be that change. You have 6 months. Now get going.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I have it clear in my head what I'm doing. 6 month plan. First month I will be meeting her needs as best I can. If I see no change then I will change my approach. Back off from the things she wants. 

Whilst all this is going on regardless of what she is doing I will be focusing on myself more. It started today as I said I'm off out for some exercise which I wouldn't normally do on a Sunday. I got changed & left her at home for an hour on her own. There will be more of this going on now. If I see no change I will focus more & more on myself.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I had to chuckle when I read this.
> 
> I've had two different women leave me for other women in my past.
> 
> ...


Well I can't guarantee it obviously but I'm 99% certain it's neither of those things. If I'm wrong we will find out one day but I just can't see either at all. Hope I'm right!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You really need to read No More Mr Nice Guy.

You need to stop looking weak in HER eyes. She will or has lost respect for you because of it. It’s like your doing a version of the pick me dance. That has ALWAYS failed. That is why there hasn’t been any change in the last 18 months. You have always been full filling her needs for the past 18 months. You have rewarded her for her neglect of your needs.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, I agree on the cuddling and such. You e been me nice guy for 18 months and it’s got you nothing but a cuddle and hug.
If something is going to change, something has got to change. 
So as we speak, other than you communicating with your wife, what’s changed?

Can you name an effort she’s made in the physical intimacy department?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I second reading No More Mr. Nice Guy, but only the first half where he explains the problem. His "solution" is ridiculous and will likely cause a divorce. Some of the things he suggests are ridiculous. He pretty much wants to turn men from being passive-aggressive wimps into narcissists. There is a better way than either of those, but Glover doesn't have that answer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I have it clear in my head what I'm doing. 6 month plan. First month I will be meeting her needs as best I can. If I see no change then I will change my approach. Back off from the things she wants.
> 
> Whilst all this is going on regardless of what she is doing I will be focusing on myself more. It started today as I said I'm off out for some exercise which I wouldn't normally do on a Sunday. I got changed & left her at home for an hour on her own. There will be more of this going on now. If I see no change I will focus more & more on myself.


This may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but there is something else I would encourage you to add to your immediate to-do list.

There is one thing in this universe that @Diana7 and @CatholicDad and I can agree on in these situations.

I would advise you to completely stop all porn and go cold turkey on spanking. Let the tank fill and let the pressure build. 

Now unlike Diana and CathDad, I have no religious or moral objections to either porn or masturbation. My perspective is entirely practical. 

Spanking makes you content to cuddle on the couch. It makes you agreeable to accept a grandma smack on the cheek as you leave for work in the morning. It makes you content to be just another drone in the giant beehive of life. It’s makes you ok with just sitting there being a beta simp.

You may think you are horny and may think you want a sex life. But you’ve spent the last year and a half sitting on the couch hoping she’ll hold your hand too - 

- that is what watching Brazilian Oil Orgies and and Circus Midgets in vats of Ramen Noodles have done for you. 

Males were never designed to have an endless supply of sexual variety at their finger tips on demand. They were designed to driven out into the elements and dangers of the world to seek out a mate, fight off the other males and claim their female reward for their efforts. Not not run one out in the bathroom when they get home from work and then settle in to watch The Bachelor on the couch. 

Go cold turkey and full stop. Let your tank fill to critical levels. Let the pressure drive you to things you can’t even picture in your mind today.

Use that time and energy for actual constructive things.

Let that pressure drive you to actually try to get into her pants. 

If she still rejects, let that pressure drive you to start noticing how many other women are in the world. 

Let it drive you to notice the other women in the world that are noticing you.

Going No Fap does not cost a dime. It not only doesn’t take any time or energy but it actually gives you more time and energy. 

And it will help you become an actual virile male of the species again instead of a couch cuddling drone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> - that is what watching Brazilian Oil Orgies and and Circus Midgets in vats of Ramen Noodles have done for you.


At the risk of being reported and banned for a threadjack, this made me laugh out loud. That can NOT be a thing. Is it? No, don’t tell me.😳😂

On topic, though, your advice makes sense. Solo stuff is easy, low drama, low pressure. I can see where it could become a crutch.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

4 billion of em. No need for porn or staying with asexual ones.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> On topic, though, your advice makes sense. Solo stuff is easy, low drama, low pressure. I can see where it could become a crutch.


For a lot of guys it’s beyond a crutch, it’s an actual replacement for them. They have substituted flesh and blood women for an electronic screen and their own hand. 

While we don’t know all that is going on in their marriage, it is a safe bet that a component of this issue is he stopped trying to have actual sex with her...... otherwise he wouldn’t have been celibate for a year and a half. 

He would have either found a working solution with her or he would have left her along the side of the road and taken up with someone else. 

Instead he’s been draining his own mojo with the circus midgets and content to cuddle on the couch with her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> This may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but there is something else I would encourage you to add to your immediate to-do list.
> 
> There is one thing in this universe that @Diana7 and @CatholicDad and I can agree on in these situations.
> 
> ...


How strange. Whether someone did mention it on this thread earlier or not (I don't recall) but over the weekend I have been researching semen retention & nofap endlessly! First time I have ever looked into it or taken any notice at all. No idea what made me look or even if I did. It might have been a video appeared on my Youtube homescreen out the blue. So if someone didn't mention it perhaps it's the universe pushing me in the right direction.

I've been reading about all the benefits both physical & mental also how other women look at you differently as they're picking up on the natural god given male energy that has been drained by us. That's partly what I meant in my message yesterday when I said I'm focusing on me. I'm going to go cold turkey & up my levels of exercise. Not to blow my own trumpet but I'm in shape already, eat well & look after my appearance BUT I'm going to up the ante & extend my gym sessions & runs gradually. Part of my research on semen retention tells me that my energy should increase so will fuel me for these sessions & off the back of that you see better gains in the gym too. The raise in testosterone from the semen retention will only add more to me as a person.

I have been masturbating around 4-5 times a week on average for the past 3 months or so. Not to porn much but occasionally I would watch some. It made me feel better at the time & got rid of any sexual tension and anger I had from my life recently. The main thing I have seen from all this is something has to change. If nothing changes we will stay the same. So if I'm changing things I normally go all out so will be applying that here. Almost like it's a shock to the system to my wife.

One thing I need to get some advice on - am I still initiating sex during the next month? I have heard conflicting advice. My wife said she listened to what I said last week & to not pressure her. She said she has taken note how I feel now & just to give her a little time. Yes I know instantly some people will say she's already had 18 months but I along with others on here obviously don't view it like that. This started 11 days ago in my head when I first breached the subject. Up until then I was partly to blame for not sorting the problem & initiating sex more. So base this on 11 days not 18 months. That's how I view it. Will I not long term be causing more issues for myself if I pressure? Like I said, I think a lot of this no sex is issues inside her head & not 100% her issues with me. I'm in this for 6 months whatever so am willing to try every approach I'm just not sure which one to try first for this month?........... Initiate & pressure or give her space as requested? Just give me a quick reply of which you think is the best approach for this first month. I will be cuddling her for this first month whatever as I that is no skin off my nose whilst relaxing at night. 

My life changes today at the start of a new week. On that note I am now off for a long run & will (gradually) dial down the shower so soon I will be having cold showers too!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> My wife said she listened to what I said last week & to not pressure her. She said she has taken note how I feel now & just to give her a little time. Yes I know instantly some people will say she's already had 18 months but I along with others on here obviously don't view it like that. This started 11 days ago in my head when I first breached the subject. Up until then I was partly to blame for not sorting the problem & initiating sex more. So base this on 11 days not 18 months. That's how I view it. Will I not long term be causing more issues for myself if I pressure? Like I said, I think a lot of this no sex is issues inside her head & not 100% her issues with me. I'm in this for 6 months whatever so am willing to try every approach I'm just not sure which one to try first for this month?........... Initiate & pressure or give her space as requested? Just give me a quick reply of which you think is the best approach for this first month. I will be cuddling her for this first month whatever as I that is no skin off my nose whilst relaxing at night.


So after bringing this up with your wife 11 days ago, you still haven't shared any sex with each other even once.

At the end of the day, it is pretty evident that the desire to share sex remains absent. Yet despite all of your musings on having a desire to "try every approach", you seem intent on trying "everything", except trying to have sex with her. Instead you are wanting to double down, on cuddling your wife non-sexually to no end for another month?

Then to top it off you are now going to jump the shark, and have cold showers!!!???, plus not masturbate. Given all of what you are doing, are you really sure that you actually want to share sex with your wife? Or is it more of a you like the idea of sharing sex with your wife or feel it is something you should be doing because you feel you're supposed to desire that? Since really going 18 months + 11 days, while planning on another month of actively avoiding sex. You sure don't seem like a man who really desires sex in the first place.

One thing for sure if someone hasn't had sex with their sexual partner for a good while and has no desire to have sex with them going forward. The go to answer to guarantee no further sex going forward, when confronted about the elephant in the room is to say "don't pressure me".

Plus on this idea that the no sex issue is inside your wife's head, you ought to wander past a mirror and take a good look at yourself. Since you embraced 18 months worth of no sex except on two occasions. While 11 days later, here you are contemplating actively embracing another month of no sex.

Now if you don't want to share sex with your wife, while she doesn't want to share sex with you. I don't feel you should feel bad about that, since you're both may be more on the same page about this than you realise.

Where the disconnect seems to be, is perhaps more inherent in you, rather than your wife. Since your wife's actions are more congruent with your wife's behaviour. In other words she keeps using words to fob you off and deny you sex, while she avoids sex with you. Whereas you express frustration and disappointment at not sharing sex with your wife, all while doing virtually nothing to share sex with her. So your words don't reflect your behaviour.

At the end of the day, given the absence of actual actions by you that demonstrate, how much sex matters to the sustainment of an ongoing marital relationship with your wife. Your wife is right to continue to fob you off "don't pressure me". Since she has no reason to believe your claim, that sex with her is important/essential to maintaining your marriage with her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

The cold showers have NOTHING to do with my wife or sex. It is for me, to focus on myself. To enjoy the health benefits. To focus on my life & let her get on with her side of things more. 

I HAVE tried to initiate. She said she is not ready. Short of me jumping on her what am I supposed to do? The pressure thing is not fobbing me off as she has outrightly told me she hasn't wanted sex recently. She's told me to my face calmly so it's not fobbing me off. It's been 11 days since I told her how I have been feeling. Apart from focusing on my life & my side of things there isn't too much I can do. She is now fully aware of how this is affecting me and how it has for the past 18 months. I'm not sure she has realised just how much up until the other day. So if I'm in the same situation in a few weeks fair enough but after 11 days I can't see how I can expect too much to change in that time.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The cold showers have NOTHING to do with my wife or sex. It is for me, to focus on myself. To enjoy the health benefits. To focus on my life & let her get on with her side of things more.
> 
> I HAVE tried to initiate. She said she is not ready. Short of me jumping on her what am I supposed to do? The pressure thing is not fobbing me off as she has outrightly told me she hasn't wanted sex recently. She's told me to my face calmly so it's not fobbing me off. It's been 11 days since I told her how I have been feeling. Apart from focusing on my life & my side of things there isn't too much I can do. She is now fully aware of how this is affecting me and how it has for the past 18 months. I'm not sure she has realised just how much up until the other day. So if I'm in the same situation in a few weeks fair enough but after 11 days I can't see how I can expect too much to change in that time.


I don't understand this at all. It makes no logical sense.

She isn't READY after almost no sex for a year and a half?

Not ready?

If I were you I'd be meeting with an attorney this week to start getting information for a divorce and work on that, as well, for the next 6 months. Either that, or maybe counseling, to help sort out for yourself if perhaps you ARE asexual yourself, and this marriage CAN work for both of you as a platonic marriage (though that's an oxymoron). Because any woman who "isn't ready" for sex with her husband after a year and a half is never going to be a healthy sex partner. What's there to "get ready"???? Help me out here. What's there to get ready? Is she waiting for an appointment for a waxing or something and won't have sex without being waxed?

You will never have a regular, healthy, happy sex life with this person.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I’m with @Livvie on this one provided everyone is healthy/normal.

Once you have “the talk” it should have been made clear to the LD spouse what will happen with continued lack of sex. If the response to that is nothing in two weeks then it seems pretty well over and done.

Now if there’s a physical/mental problem then it’s more understandable but I would expect to see appointments happening and movement being taken to fix the issue.

My own timeline was around 3 months.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The cold showers have NOTHING to do with my wife or sex. It is for me, to focus on myself. To enjoy the health benefits. To focus on my life & let her get on with her side of things more.
> 
> I HAVE tried to initiate. She said she is not ready. Short of me jumping on her what am I supposed to do? The pressure thing is not fobbing me off as she has outrightly told me she hasn't wanted sex recently. She's told me to my face calmly so it's not fobbing me off. It's been 11 days since I told her how I have been feeling. Apart from focusing on my life & my side of things there isn't too much I can do. She is now fully aware of how this is affecting me and how it has for the past 18 months. I'm not sure she has realised just how much up until the other day. So if I'm in the same situation in a few weeks fair enough but after 11 days I can't see how I can expect too much to change in that time.


She still hasn't realized how much no sex if affecting you, you haven't done anything of any substance. If she isn't ready 11 days after you said something and tried to initiate what is going to make her ready at 14, 28, 60, etc..? You action is just more inaction.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Reality is the longer something goes unresolved the easier it becomes to let it continue that way. For whatever reason she’s not interested and apparently doesn’t want to be so stick to your deadline and carry on with your life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme I think the reason people are getting on you so much is I think you are failing to see the seriousness and gravity of the situation here. 

This is not a case of her having a headache or feeling too gassy on a Saturday night when you are feeling a little randy and wanting some whoopie. This is a critical dysfunction in the very core and foundations of your marriage. 

It's great you're looking towards self-improvement and developing your own life and getting into better shape etc. But this is like someone who is dusting the bookshelves while the house is burning down. 

The things you are doing are great and they are what you need to be doing to prepare for your post-divorce life. 

But IMHO I think to really address this as a couple will require professional marital counseling and therapy. But in order to get her into counseling and get her put forth sincere effort to address her issues and come to the negotiation table, she is going to have to come face to face with the reality of living in an apartment as a single mother while watching you move on with a younger and prettier woman and having a more fun and exciting life. That is what will ultimately jolt her into reality. 

And that is assuming that she will even want to try to work things out to where there is mutual happiness in the marriage. For all we know, as long as she gets her child support and spousal support checks, she may be perfectly happy to move on herself and will even help you pack. She will want her financial support and provisioning, but she may think it's cute and sweet that you are getting into shape and looking into getting a girlfriend some day. 

I can't give you a timeline on when you should or should not make an honest effort into getting into her knickers, But I can tell you that this is a very serious and even grave situation and I don't believe you grasp that yet. 

I think a part of you thinks it's normal for someone to reject their partner for a year and a half, but it is NOT. It is a sign of a very critical underlying relationship problem and I don't think you are grasping that yet.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But IMHO I think to really address this as a couple will require professional marital counseling and therapy. But in order to get her into counseling and get her put forth sincere effort to address her issues and come to the negotiation table, she is going to have to come face to face with the reality of living in an apartment as a single mother while watching you move on with a younger and prettier woman and having a more fun and exciting life. That is what will ultimately jolt her into reality.


100% agree with this.

The way I see it
OP let 18 months go by doing nothing. The relationship changes during the 18mo clearly indicate serious issues.
He has owned that and written that time off as lost. The rejections and pain is his to bear and he's accepted it.

Now he comes to TAM a few days ago and got great advice. Based on the advice he has developed a plan, a timeline, and milestones that he needs to see.

I'm personally not really optimistic about his plan. Intense counseling should have been a part of it, along with mental health evaluation, as well as more immediate recognition of the problems on her part. The big unknowns to me is her mental state and seemingly wayward behavior. So I'm rooting for OP, but doubtful about the outcome.

If he went for D today as opposed to 6mo from now, the only difference is 6 months of misery and emotional investment that he will have experienced during the 6mo.
He has accepted that as the risk.

I'm pro-marriage and I think if there's a shot to make things right, then it is worth it to try as long as OP can handle the crap between now and then.

He obviously thinks there is a shot. I'm not sure why...but he does.

So he's moving forward with his plan and eyes wide open to the downside.

Best of luck to you OP.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> If he went for D today as opposed to 6mo from now, the only difference is 6 months of misery and emotional investment that he will have experienced during the 6mo.
> He has accepted that as the risk.


I agree with the rest of your post but have a little differing perspective on this above. 

Right now @somedayyouwillfindme is starting to wake up a little bit. But at the moment he is still a beaten-down, fearful, betatized simp with self-esteem problems that thinks he can win his wife's love by doing more cuddling and being "nice." 

If he were to take any divorce action now, she would disembowel him not only in court but also in the court of public opinion and in both families by accusing him of abandoning his wife and child "for sex" after "pressuring" her and watching porn and spanking most days of the week and making him out to be a sex addict and abuser. 

His self esteem is already in the gutter now and he is already a weak beta simp now (I'm not saying that to be mean, just telling it like it is) 

If they were to separate now, he would be sitting alone in his one-bedroom apartment crying in his pillow and feeling utterly defeated and worthless and wondering why he was so inadequate that she hasn't touched him in desire in a year and a half and now he is all alone. 

Meanwhile since she has already had a year and a half of disconnecting with him and has already lost all attraction and desire for him, she would be on Tinder and would be hooking up with hot F-boyz within a week. 

She would be dropping the kid off at his apartment to babysit while her date was waiting in the parking lot in his refurbished '68 Camero. 

That would destroy whatever crumbs of self-esteem and dignity he had left. 

I think his 6 month plan is reasonable assuming he is using that 6 months to rebuild himself, seek legal advice and begin making a divorce and post-divorce plan that will protect as much of his paternal access and assets as possible and build himself so that he can sign his divorce papers and step into his new, productive and happy life without her. 

......and maybe by then he could have the refurbished Camero LOL 

Right now he is at zero. He is a broken, betatized simp with no sense of self-respect or masculinity. If he were to pursue divorce or separation at this time, it would break him even further. 

If he can start waking up and getting his balls back today and put forth sincere daily effort into developing himself and preparing for a life without her, By six months he could have his ducks in a row, a new life-plan in place and he could hand her the divorce papers August 12th and have a younger, prettier woman's legs over his shoulders that evening and by the next morning wonder how and why he ever lasted a year and a half with the ex. 

He needs time to recreated himself. 

I agree that it is a long shot that his wife will ever become a hot sexy kitten for him and that she likely has some mental and personality issues that may require years of treatment and therapy to just be functional. 

But he needs to develop himself a good deal before he himself can become aware of how disordered this whole thing is and to get himself into a position of strength and determination instead of hoping that maybe holding her hand on the couch will bring her around.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm stuck on the "not ready" line.

Did you ask her what wasn't ready or what she needed to do to be ready?

I knew if a man said that to me I'd be asking what the heck that meant. 

Did you act all confused and request an answer?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I agree with the rest of your post but have a little differing perspective on this above.
> 
> Right now @somedayyouwillfindme is starting to wake up a little bit. But at the moment he is still a beaten-down, fearful, betatized simp with self-esteem problems that thinks he can win his wife's love by doing more cuddling and being "nice."
> 
> ...


Good points @oldshirt . You're right. I was thinking in simplistic terms but there's much more to that 6mo vs now decision.


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## chazmataz33 (Apr 18, 2021)

Ya do what ya did ya get what ya got


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I'm stuck on the "not ready" line.


She feels under pressure and that puts her off sex. She has a block, she is not mentally prepared for sex. Without counselling this could go on forever.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I'm stuck on the "not ready" line.
> 
> Did you ask her what wasn't ready or what she needed to do to be ready?
> 
> ...





In Absentia said:


> She feels under pressure and that puts her off sex. She has a block, she is not mentally prepared for sex. Without counselling this could go on forever.


I agree and this is why I think this situation is untenable without professional intervention and therapy. 

What does a grown, married women need to be "ready" to have sex with her husband with whom she has already had a marital sex life with? 

How is she not ready now and what is it that she needs to be ready for? What does she need to get ready and when will she know that she is ready? 

This is professional therapist territory to peel back the layers of this nasty onion.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I agree and this is why I think this situation is untenable without professional intervention and therapy.
> 
> What does a grown, married women need to be "ready" to have sex with her husband with whom she has already had a marital sex life with?
> 
> ...


OR she's a wayward.
It's not a perfect fit but I'm not nearly as convinced about it as OP.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I agree and this is why I think this situation is untenable without professional intervention and therapy.
> 
> What does a grown, married women need to be "ready" to have sex with her husband with whom she has already had a marital sex life with?
> 
> ...


She clearly has mental issues. She needs to see a therapist.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Have you addressed her concerns with the bed squeaking and getting a noise barrier? What have you two decided to do about contraception?
Nothing will happen until these things are resolved. Have they been resolved? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> OR she's a wayward.
> It's not a perfect fit but I'm not nearly as convinced about it as OP.


We can't dismiss it and it's something that needs to be investigated with honest, due diligence. If she is getting her jollies elsewhere, there is nothing, including MC or sex therapy, that will help turn things around for the OP. 

There was a guy that used to post here that is considered by some to be a bit of a TAM folk hero because he packed up and left his wife after being completely sexless for SEVENTEEN YEARS. 

After he moved on she finally confessed that she had cheated and had contracted herpes or something and so just told him no and that she wasn't ready etc for 17 years. 

Some consider him a hero because he finally took definitive action and is getting laid like tile now. 

All I can think of is he sat on his hands and did nothing for 17 grueling years of denial. 

None of know if the OP's wife is cheating or has herpes or whatever, but what I can tell @somedayyouwillfindme with absolute certainty is do not dismiss it as a possibility and for the love of all that is Holy, do NOT sit on your hands hoping things will get better for 17 years!!!!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Have you addressed her concerns with the bed squeaking and getting a noise barrier? What have you two decided to do about contraception?
> Nothing will happen until these things are resolved. Have they been resolved?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


The problem is, until SHE is "ready", she isn't willing to consider anything that will make having sex more of a possibility. 

She is unmotivated to resolve any of her objections, because she has obviously had the exact marriage that has suited her for the past 18 months. I believe that her plan going forward is to appease him and undermine his attempts to "woo" her for sex, so that she can continue to have the marriage that makes HER happy.

By dismantling all the barriers, he is only going to force the actual HONEST conversation from her that she wasn't brave enough to have at first.

I hope I am wrong, but that's what I see right now.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> We can't dismiss it and it's something that needs to be investigated with honest, due diligence. If she is getting her jollies elsewhere, there is nothing, including MC or sex therapy, that will help turn things around for the OP.
> 
> There was a guy that used to post here that is considered by some to be a bit of a TAM folk hero because he packed up and left his wife after being completely sexless for SEVENTEEN YEARS.
> 
> ...


100%
That was a heartbreaking story with a tragic ending for her if I recall.

She cut him off initially so she could be faithful to her boyfriend and couldn't ever resume with BH because he would get the STD. 

That's my guess for @somedayyouwillfindme scenario as well. Every affectionate act is cheating on her BF, so she doesn't.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> The problem is, until SHE is "ready", she isn't willing to consider anything that will make having sex more of a possibility.
> 
> She is unmotivated to resolve any of her objections, because she has obviously had the exact marriage that has suited her for the past 18 months. I believe that her plan going forward is to appease him and undermine his attempts to "woo" her for sex, so that she can continue to have the marriage that makes HER happy.
> 
> ...


I don't know if you have ever been wrong. 

And if you have ever been wrong, this is NOT one of those times. 

You are right on the money.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme (I love that song BTW) 

In order to keep everything in perspective- things like getting into shape, quitting porn, getting back into hobbies, self-improvement, learning some game etc etc are all folk-remedies that might perk up a waning sex life that is getting bogged down by bills and child-rearing and car repairs etc etc

Things like mental illness/personality disorders, infidelity, loss of attraction and desire for one's spouse, Not being "ready" for intimacy for a year and half etc etc are all cancers growing on the heart and lungs of a marriage. 

Just as you don't treat treat lung cancer with a poultice and rubbing Vicks on your feet then putting on wool socks - so too that mental illness, infidelity, loss of attraction and desire and not being "ready" for a year and half, will require professional assessment and intervention. 

If you were 50-100lbs overweight, and your wife was telling you the blubber was a turn off, I would say focus on your health and vitality first. But this isn't about some flabby muscles and a little too much beer belly. This is a cancer growing on the vital organs of your marriage. 

You need to add professional assistance to your to-do list if you want this marriage to turn around.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know if you have ever been wrong.
> 
> And if you have ever been wrong, this is NOT one of those times.
> 
> You are right on the money.


And just guess how I know.

Those of us who have danced to this tune see the true purpose and outcome...unfortunately.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Livvie said:


> I'm stuck on the "not ready" line.
> 
> Did you ask her what wasn't ready or what she needed to do to be ready?
> 
> ...


I don't understand it either. To me, you want to have sex or not. I understand "reactive desire" but to need over 18 months to "react" is way too long. 

I understand she's anxious about pregnancy, but I don't understand why you don't even have a birth control plan. This is something I've always assumed was done at the beginning of a relationship. If you guys can't even talk about birth control, then you have some serious communication problems. 

If you take pregnancy out of the equation, would she have sex with you? Does she ever feel horny? If she didn't want or need to have sex in 18 months, what makes you think she's gonna want to have sex now?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You have tried to initiate… and
You’re wondering if you should initiate still in the next month…?

She has your manhood.

She isn’t gonna do sex willingly with you. It’s going to be an obligation to her.

The reason why you haven’t had sex yet is because you look weak.

I’m not sure we can teach you how to look like a strong and confident man who takes charge. But that’s what you need.

Why aren’t you keeping condoms on hand to prevent pregnancy? Do your part. In this day and age - with all the options - no one should worry about getting pregnant from sex.

You know that’s an excuse, right?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand she's anxious about pregnancy, but* I don't understand why you don't even have a birth control plan*. This is something I've always assumed was done at the beginning of a relationship.* If you guys can't even talk about birth control, then you have some serious communication problems.*


Absolutely nothing is going to be resolved until her concerns about noise is addressed and the two of you have a birth control plan. I makes no sense that you two don't have any plan in place. If these conversations make her uncomfortable, then too bad. Life is full of uncomfortable conversations, but if we refuse to have them, nothing gets resolved.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I don't understand it either. To me, you want to have sex or not. I understand "reactive desire" but to need over 18 months to "react" is way too long.


"I'm not ready" translates into - "I do not want to. Probably won't ever want to. But I don't want to fight about it right now and I want you to think that maybe some day I might so you will back off right now but not dump my azz." 

I-am-not-ready is a carrot dangling in front of him to keep him jumping through HER hoops and doing what she wants, while at the same time rejecting the things he wants. But she knows that if she came right out and told him to his face that she wasn't attracted to him or that she was involved with someone else, she knows that would cause unpleasantries and upset the status quo.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> "I'm not ready" translates into - "I do not want to. Probably won't ever want to. But I don't want to fight about it right now and I want you to think that maybe some day I might so you will back off right now but not dump my azz."
> 
> I-am-not-ready is a carrot dangling in front of him to keep him jumping through HER hoops and doing what she wants, while at the same time rejecting the things he wants. But she knows that if she came right out and told him to his face that she wasn't attracted to him or that she was involved with someone else, she knows that would cause unpleasantries and upset the status quo.


Now the caveat to that is if she is making a bona fide effort into trying to fix this and she just doesn't have some key component that she is diligently working on in place yet.

If she was seeking a therapist to address her anxiety and mental issues. 

If they were sitting down as a couple to discuss birth control like responsible 16 year olds. 

If she was either agreeing to MC or agreeing to sit down and have a series of heart to heart talks on their relationship on what it is that she needs to be able to have an intimate relationship. 

If those there were in place and being legitimately addressed, then it's reasonable to allow a certain amount of time to start seeing any results. Whether that time is a week or a month or whatever, I cannot say. 

But I can say that if she "isn't ready" but is doing nothing substantive to get ready, then it is just a stall tactic and dangling a carrot in his face to keep him jumping through her hoops and to keep his wants and needs off of her back.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I don’t want to = I never intend to have sex with you again.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

pastasauce79 said:


> I don't understand it either. To me, you want to have sex or not. I understand "reactive desire" but to need over 18 months to "react" is way too long.
> 
> I understand she's anxious about pregnancy, but I don't understand why you don't even have a birth control plan. This is something I've always assumed was done at the beginning of a relationship. If you guys can't even talk about birth control, then you have some serious communication problems.
> 
> If you take pregnancy out of the equation, would she have sex with you? Does she ever feel horny? If she didn't want or need to have sex in 18 months, what makes you think she's gonna want to have sex now?


she doesn’t want to have sex with him. As I said before, she likes his company and cuddles, but not sex with him. Which is fine, obviously, but she needs to be honest with him and accept the consequences, instead of feeding him bull.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Yes, you should should keep initiating. 11 days is already quite a bit of time after that deep heart to heart talk. If your initiation is shot down, walk away and do something else. Do not stick around to hear any BS about not being ready or needing more time. If you could leave the house, it would be even better. 

I still think you have not done your due diligence on if there was someone else in the recent past. This would have happened around the time your parents stayed with you. That would have been the time that the distraction would have made it possible and her resentment towards you would have made her easy pickings for an interloper.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

We know the cuddling is no problem for you. That’s not the point. All she wants (hopefully She really does at least want that) is cuddling. Give her an incentive to give you some sex.
I think you’re wasting your time, but at least be logical about it. How will she know how it feels to be rejected and have intimacy withheld if you never show her? I suspect she could care less about the cuddling and if you totally withhold affection, she won’t even notice as long as you stop asking for sex. I think she’s giving you what she thinks is the bare minimum to keep you, and it’s worked for 18 months—-
btw, I don’t know if I’m being of any help to you, and there is an ignore function on here in case I bother you, which is not my intention but still……
I still think she should try switching her AD’s and see if her libedo returns, as that I think, is the most likely cause of her change in sex habits and also the easiest to fix.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> How strange. Whether someone did mention it on this thread earlier or not (I don't recall) but over the weekend I have been researching semen retention & nofap endlessly! First time I have ever looked into it or taken any notice at all. No idea what made me look or even if I did. It might have been a video appeared on my Youtube homescreen out the blue. So if someone didn't mention it perhaps it's the universe pushing me in the right direction.
> 
> I've been reading about all the benefits both physical & mental also how other women look at you differently as they're picking up on the natural god given male energy that has been drained by us. That's partly what I meant in my message yesterday when I said I'm focusing on me. I'm going to go cold turkey & up my levels of exercise. Not to blow my own trumpet but I'm in shape already, eat well & look after my appearance BUT I'm going to up the ante & extend my gym sessions & runs gradually. Part of my research on semen retention tells me that my energy should increase so will fuel me for these sessions & off the back of that you see better gains in the gym too. The raise in testosterone from the semen retention will only add more to me as a person.
> 
> ...


Initiate. Balance it with the signs from her and your own desire. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> she doesn’t want to have sex with him. As I said before, she likes his company and cuddles, but not sex with him. Which is fine, obviously, but she needs to be honest with him and accept the consequences, instead of feeding him bull.


This is exactly true, however, they types of people who can knowingly hurt their monogamous partners by refusing sex indefinitely are people who feel entitled to get whatever they want with NO consequences.

She hasn't had consequences for friend-zoning him for 18 months...in fact, he's allowed her to get more and more comfortable as she cemented herself in the role of The Queen. So she has no concept of recognizing his needs...he has allowed them to be invisible to her, while he met all of her needs.

Now that he is confronting her about this, she is going to TEST him to see how far his boundaries really go, and how many of his expectations she can wiggle out of.

Right now, she is not contemplating how they can come back together sexually or how excited she is that they are going to have sex again, or even warmed by the thought that her husband and partner in life desires her sexually.

Instead, she is strategizing how she can keep the power balance in their marriage to her advantage, and how she can appear to be cooperating until he hopefully gives up...like he had for the past 18 months.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Jesus, people. The sky isn't falling today as opposed to just a scant 24 hours ago.

Maybe just take a deep breath and trust the process. 

Three weeks from now, if she still isn't sleeping with him, he will be able to use "I don't feel like it" and "I'm not ready" to his heart's content while denying her any form of intimacy or emotional spousal support.

The initial month is important. That way, when she fails to accept his advances even once, he can point out to her that she had a month to do something about their situation but refused to do so, as he lowers the relationship thermostat to absolute zero.

The time will come. Give her enough rope to either use or hang herself with. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Initiate. Balance it with the signs from her and your own desire.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Yes, initiate today. Have condoms to do your part in preventing pregnancy.
Know if she says no - respect it… but also know she has no intention of having sex with you.
You’ll have your answer.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

OP, your wife is not going to have sex with you. There are exactly 4 possible scenarios.
1. She is not attracted to you.
2. She has unresolved trauma which for some reason she has not shared with you. Therapist.
3. She has a physical or hormonal issue which for some reason she has not shared with you. Doctor.
4. She is having an affair.
All of these are communication issues and none of these will be resolved with cuddles.
If I was you, I would suggest to your wife a medical exam with individual counseling and while she is having this done, I would move out of the house. That's me. As long as there is no impetus to change, there will be none.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

harperlee said:


> OP, your wife is not going to have sex with you. There are exactly 4 possible scenarios.
> 1. She is not attracted to you.
> 2. She has unresolved trauma which for some reason she has not shared with you. Therapist.
> 3. She has a physical or hormonal issue which for some reason she has not shared with you. Doctor.
> ...


No these are not the only possible reasons. Other reasons have been given.

I agree with Farsidejunky. Jumping to divorce is not the answer. He loves his wife and wants to work it out with her.

Some of us are a work in progress and believe in working through things. I've been married for almost 40 years and have a lot of experience in working through things.

The wife has shared that she is afraid of getting pregnant, the loud bed upsets her, she doesn't want their son to hear them (and he is right on the other side of the wall). These issues have got to be discussed and resolved before she will be able to move on. If he shows good faith in addressing these reasonable issues, he is doing his part.

Next is that he left her. Yes, he came back in three days, but the fact remains that things have never been the same since that incident. It was the catalyst that led to this event. Apparently, it hasn't been resolved. I recommend marriage counseling. It takes months to get in to see a counselor here, so I'd recommend making an appointment immediately and getting started.

These are valid issues, whether anyone else thinks they are or not. Her feelings are valid. His feelings are valid. This is a marriage, so both people's issues need to be addressed.

I agree that withholding sex from one's spouse is extremely unhealthy and not recommended. I agree that she needs to stop withholding sex from her husband. But forcing her and not taking into account her expressed fears is not going to resolve any of this. 

Sure he can divorce his wife without further ado, but that's not what he wants. Even if he did divorce his wife over this, there are no guarantees that he would have his desired outcome.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You mentioned that you’ve been together for 9 years total and have a 12 year kid. Is that your kid from a prior marriage? If it’s her’s, did you never want to have a kid of your own? I ask because this fear of pregnancy keeps being mentioned as a major reason she doesn’t want to have sex with you. So she’s afraid to get pregnant with a child from you? Either way, to me the pregnancy fear doesn’t make sense, Prior to this 18 month period, you had a healthy sex life, now she’s all fearful of getting pregnant? 

When a wife not only cuts off the sex but doesn’t want to hug and turns her face when you go in for a kiss 7 out of 10 times, she is repulsed by you. There’s something that caused that drastic change in emotional connection but I just can’t see an argument about not agreeing that your mother was not helping being the catalyst for it.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Cynthia said:


> No these are not the only possible reasons. Other reasons have been given.
> 
> I agree with Farsidejunky. Jumping to divorce is not the answer. He loves his wife and wants to work it out with her.
> 
> ...


I thought I'd break things down a bit then realized it wouldn't make sense. So full quote then. First, of course yourself and Farsidejunky make sense. No one, including myself is suggesting outright divorce, don't be ridiculous.
I recommended individual counseling, for her but marital counseling for the both of them would make sense at some point, if she acts like she gives a crap.
The OP's wife is the one who has an issue around sex and neither we or the OP can fathom why. 
We may pontificate till the cows come home, the problem will remain the same. My hunch is that she simply does not want to have sex with OP, otherwise she would have been proactive herself. 
That is the simple, straightforward answer and most likely the truth. 
Both of their 'feelings' are valid, agreed.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There isn’t a thing you can do. You have given your wife all of the power in this situation. She will just continue to say she isn’t ready and don’t push her. She heard what you had to say and doesn’t care one bit about it. 

I still believe she is cheating on you.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> Next is that he left her. Yes, he came back in three days, but the fact remains that things have never been the same since that incident. It was the catalyst that led to this event. Apparently, it hasn't been resolved.


^^ this 




jsmart said:


> There’s something that caused that drastic change in emotional connection but I just can’t see an argument about not agreeing that your mother was not helping being the catalyst for it.


We don't know everything he said or how he said it. Yelling at someone that they're mentally ill and walking out on them for 3 days, then dismissing the impact of that as he has done here - not the best route to maintaining trust. She changed her perspective that day.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Quad73 said:


> ^^ this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


18 months of no intimacy and she hasn’t reached out to talk to him about why? Still wants to cuddle and such…
Most normal people when they have a beef with their spouse that hurts them enough that they cease all physical intimacy will communicate why 
Of course, The OP is ALSO abnormal in that he has gone 18 months of no sex without as much of a whimper until 11 days ago. 

Any man that goes 18 months without sex with his wife snd hasn’t had a long conversation with her about the problem a loooooong time ago has me shaking my head.

The idea he then latches onto is not masturbating or watching pornography and cuddling and giving her space.

Her response to him when he asks what the problem is, why she doesn’t want him…. Etc.
She tells him she doesn’t want sex with him and doesn’t know why, not to pressure her, and if he tries to instigate sex, she’s “not ready”.

OP won’t even consider demanding that she see a doctor about the known side effects of a drug she’s taking that is well known to crash sex drives.

This whole deal doesn’t make sense. OP, you’re doing nothing whatsoever to give her a reason to change. You know she doesn’t want to have sex with you because she’s told you. Without that one fact changing, you’re out of luck. Who cares if she decides that she will have sex with you IF SHE DOESN’T WANT TO???? If switching to a different antidepressant that doesn’t harm her libedo is a no go, I don’t see what will fix this. Do you actually think she’s going to wake up one day after 19 months of not wanting to do you, and suddenly saying to herself “I think I’d like some sex?”????
This is either a medical problem that a doctor can help with, or you’re SOL.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> No these are not the only possible reasons. Other reasons have been given.
> 
> I agree with Farsidejunky. Jumping to divorce is not the answer. He loves his wife and wants to work it out with her.
> 
> ...


Mrs. Far and I celebrated 18 years of marriage today. 

Back in 2014-2015, had I followed my own emotions, or perhaps those that said I needed to divorce immediately, today never would have happened. 

The process will not steer you wrong. The key is having the discipline...and occasional tolerance for pain...to follow it. But it will tell you the direction to take. 



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@somedayyouwillfindme, since you are wanting to repair your marital relationship, with your wife I wouldn't pull the trigger on divorce just yet at all.

That said it is one thing to try to repair your sexual relationship, by starting to share sex with each other from now on going forward.

Yet it is another thing entirely to avoid affording your wife opportunities to repair your sexual relationship together. By intending to do nothing more than cuddle from time to time, for another month from this point going forward.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Happy anniversary Mr. and Mrs. Far! I'm glad you stuck it out. I believe that your advice has saved marriages.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I am taking the route of @Cynthia @farsidejunky and @oldshirt . This is a process that will take some time sorting out hence why I came on here. I'm not going to just divorce my wife because of this.

@Quad73 is correct - me shouting at her saying she needed mental help was stupid. In my defense that was after about 3 hours of me asking my wife to drop the argument & move on. It was also after me going out for a walk for an hour hoping she would be different upon my return. I did try everything to end it. I don't shout instantly as I know it solves nothing. I was pushed & pushed & pushed until I cracked. I will add - she was saying vicious stuff to me constantly so I don't regret saying it to her but I do regret the manner in which I said it to her. Above all else I believe it. I didn't say it to be nasty. I do believe she needs to talk to someone. Nothing major but I feel she has unresolved issues from her childhood. Unfortunately my wife is very sensitive like that & she will hold onto these things for a LONG time. I know women in general are more sensitive than men but I think (I maybe wrong) my wife is right at the very top level even for women. My wife is also (in my opinion) very childish in some of these arguments. Name calling comes out like I would expect in a playground not from a 40 year old. I take no notice as names really don't hurt me but I do say to her "you're hurting this argument, these comments really don't help".

Regarding the pregnancy. I feel a lot has come about since the pandemic hit. We both took a hit with our jobs & money is alot tighter now. We are also living in a place neither of us are happy with but due to the recent conditions it feels we're stuck here for the foreseeable future. I know all this gets my wife down, it gets me down too but I crack on with things more and I'm more upbeat about life. There is always someone else worse off than me is how I view it whereas my wife doesn't. 

I won't just be leaving her as I love her & I know she loves me. Sex is only 1 part of a marriage. No sex DOESN'T equal no love.

I will be initiating over the course of the next month. I massaged her last night for the first time in 18 months & we had a passionate kiss. I initiated both & she said she wanted me to massage her. NO I couldn't of had sex with her at that point before anyone says it - it was 7.30pm & our son had a friend round playing computer games in his room as we were in the living room (she was fully clothed btw due to the boys being in the flat). BUT that is 2 things we haven't done for a long long time. I take the view of trusting the process as @farsidejunky said. He is PROOF it can work if you get your head down & work at it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to give me some very helpful advice. I never expected ANY of this in the slightest. Feels like I'm on the Truman Show & people are rooting for me 😏


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I am taking the route of @Cynthia @farsidejunky and @oldshirt . This is a process that will take some time sorting out hence why I came on here. I'm not going to just divorce my wife because of this.
> 
> @Quad73 is correct - me shouting at her saying she needed mental help was stupid. In my defense that was after about 3 hours of me asking my wife to drop the argument & move on. It was also after me going out for a walk for an hour hoping she would be different upon my return. I did try everything to end it. I don't shout instantly as I know it solves nothing. I was pushed & pushed & pushed until I cracked. I will add - she was saying vicious stuff to me constantly so I don't regret saying it to her but I do regret the manner in which I said it to her. Above all else I believe it. I didn't say it to be nasty. I do believe she needs to talk to someone. Nothing major but I feel she has unresolved issues from her childhood. Unfortunately my wife is very sensitive like that & she will hold onto these things for a LONG time. I know women in general are more sensitive than men but I think (I maybe wrong) my wife is right at the very top level even for women. My wife is also (in my opinion) very childish in some of these arguments. Name calling comes out like I would expect in a playground not from a 40 year old. I take no notice as names really don't hurt me but I do say to her "you're hurting this argument, these comments really don't help".
> 
> ...


Two things on this post, as I want to caution you.

1. It worked for me. It has failed for many others. This is not a guarantee of making your marriage work. It is a guarantee that you will know in short order whether or not it is time to end the marriage, having exhausted all other measures. 

2. This statement was very concerning to me: "I won't just be leaving her as I love her & I know she loves me. Sex is only 1 part of a marriage. No sex DOESN'T equal no love."

There is no point, in any way, shape, or form, of actually doing the process I am advocating for UNLESS you are willing to leave the marriage. Otherwise, you are doing nothing more than precipice dancing. 



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Two things on this post, as I want to caution you.
> 
> 1. It worked for me. It has failed for many others. This is not a guarantee of making your marriage work. It is a guarantee that you will know in short order whether or not it is time to end the marriage, having exhausted all other measures.
> 
> ...


He lives her and doesn’t want to leave her TODAY.

There’s been talk of “trust the process.” 

Much of the process is about him living his best life and getting out and doing fun things on his own rather than dancing for her. As well as getting into better shape, cutting out porn and spanking etc. 

That all “might” get her to see him as a virile man and regain her respect and attraction.

But what often happens is when a guy starts living his good life and getting his balls back, he wakes up one day and realizes he really doesn’t love her all that much anymore after all of her rejections and cold shoulders and he realizes he can live a good life with out her. 

And ultimately he realizes there are 3 1/2 billion other women out there and that some of them DO think he is attractive and desirable. 

That doesn’t happen over night. It is a process. The process is largely about HIS grown and transformation in his own psyche. 

He’s not ready to cut the cord with her today. 

But if he actually walks the walks and she doesn’t come around, one of these days he will be ready.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Instead, she is strategizing how she can keep the power balance in their marriage to her advantage, and how she can appear to be cooperating until he hopefully gives up...like he had for the past 18 months.


When the OP will threaten divorce, I'm sure she will give him duty sex until the child is old enough and then she will dump him forever.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> When the OP will threaten divorce, I'm sure she will give him duty sex until the child id old enough and then she will dump him forever.


ONLY if he is a guy who is satisfied with duty sex. It's easy to tell the difference between duty sex and a healthy, happy, mutual, passionate, fulfilling sex life.

I'd rather divorce than be in a duty sex marriage because a duty sex marriage feels like a lie to me.

And yeah I can say that because I did initiate divorce after 17 years of marriage so please don’t say "it's easy for you to say".


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> ONLY if he is a guy who is satisfied with duty sex. It's easy to tell the difference between duty sex and a healthy, happy, mutual, passionate, fulfilling sex life.
> 
> I'd rather divorce than be in a duty sex marriage because a duty sex marriage feels like a lie to me.
> 
> And yeah I can say that because I did initiate divorce after 17 years of marriage so please don’t say "it's easy for you to say".


Common traits of duty sex:

*No real participation from partner.

*Partner will not kiss.

*Sayings like "Hurry up" and "Let's get this over with".

I remember my wife using the sayings above a few times. Then I realized I had enough of it. I told her that sex was something I did WITH her, not TO her, and I had no interest in anything less than her enthusiastic participation.

The fact that I rejected her angered her. That was a good thing...I have not heard her use any such terms since that night in 2014, nor has there been any duty sex. 

There have been three or so times where she has been bratty in foreplay, which I suspect was her telling me she was avoiding duty sex. But one of those times, I again turned her down. Simply put, I am a good husband, and I won't accept that type of faux intimacy. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> When the OP will threaten divorce, I'm sure she will give him duty sex until the child is old enough and then she will dump him forever.


If OP gets busy following @oldshirt battle plan, at the end of the 6 months period, he will be a man that wouldn’t tolerate duty sex. 

Right now it’s too soon to talk D, but it has to be in the equation. Yes, right now he’s not strong enough yet but he will be a different man if he embraces the living life to the fullest attitude and gets busy being the best man he could be.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> ONLY if he is a guy who is satisfied with duty sex. It's easy to tell the difference between duty sex and a healthy, happy, mutual, passionate, fulfilling sex life.
> 
> I'd rather divorce than be in a duty sex marriage because a duty sex marriage feels like a lie to me.
> 
> And yeah I can say that because I did initiate divorce after 17 years of marriage so please don’t say "it's easy for you to say".


well, to me duty sex means that sex becomes a duty but it doesn't necessary means it's going to be bad. My wife gave me duty sex, and not very often, but it was good sex and that kept me there for an extra 10 years. So, it can be ok, but it really depends on the quality of sex. Regarding the "lie", some wives have sex with their husbands because they want to please them, not because they really desire sex. It's still duty sex to me, but is it a lie?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> well, to me duty sex means that sex becomes a duty but it doesn't necessary means it's going to be bad. My wife gave me duty sex, and not very often, but it was good sex and that kept me there for an extra 10 years. So, it can be ok, but it really depends on the quality of sex. Regarding the "lie", some wives have sex with their husbands because they want to please them, not because they really desire sex. It's still duty sex to me, but is it a lie?


Sorry to threadjack, but you should start a new thread about "duty sex." I think that would be fascinating.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Two things on this post, as I want to caution you.
> 
> 1. It worked for me. It has failed for many others. This is not a guarantee of making your marriage work. It is a guarantee that you will know in short order whether or not it is time to end the marriage, having exhausted all other measures.
> 
> ...


No I'm dedicated to leave in 6 months if it comes to it. I was trying to say I won't just be leaving today as some have advised me to do. I will be doing everything I can to make this work but if I get nothing back then I will be off in 6 months time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I'm dedicated to leave in 6 months if it comes to it. I was trying to say I won't just be leaving today as some have advised me to do. I will be doing everything I can to make this work but if I get nothing back then I will be off in 6 months time.


I apologize if you've already answered this question. Have you told her that?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Common traits of duty sex:
> 
> *No real participation from partner.
> 
> ...


Last time we had sex there was a lot of kissing. Loads. It didn't feel like duty sex to me. My wife initiated it too. She maybe a good actor but she initated the whole thing.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I apologize if you've already answered this question. Have you told her that?


No I haven't. I know my wife well enough to hold back with that at present. The way I am doing it will work better right now for me/us. If I get no response to what I am doing & our chat I will give her the ultimatum.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I'm dedicated to leave in 6 months if it comes to it. I was trying to say I won't just be leaving today as some have advised me to do. I will be doing everything I can to make this work but if I get nothing back then I will be off in 6 months time.


Has anyone on here actually SAID that you should leave tomorrow? I haven't read every response, but the harshest thing I've read is that you need to face your reality and make your decision from there.

If she were cheating (which I don't believe she is), then I think the advice would be to file for divorce today...but I haven't seen anyone say that...yet anyway.

I think your plan is a really good one. It sounds like in your particular situation, the steps you've said you are going to take will give you the highest chance of turning this around.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Last time we had sex there was a lot of kissing. Loads. It didn't feel like duty sex to me. My wife initiated it too. She maybe a good actor but she initated the whole thing.


You do have a really strange situation with your wife. I still think it may be the antidepressants.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I haven't. I know my wife well enough to hold back with that at present. The way I am doing it will work better right now for me/us. If I get no response to what I am doing & our chat I will give her the ultimatum.


Understandable. I wish you the best, I'm sorry this is such a struggle. 😟


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Has anyone on here actually SAID that you should leave tomorrow? I haven't read every response, but the harshest thing I've read is that you need to face your reality and make your decision from there.
> 
> If she were cheating (which I don't believe she is), then I think the advice would be to file for divorce today...but I haven't seen anyone say that...yet anyway.
> 
> I think your plan is a really good one. It sounds like in your particular situation, the steps you've said you are going to take will give you the highest chance of turning this around.


Yes some people early on said they would be out the door & wouldn't stand for sex twice in 18 months. Each to their own & I can fully see why some people wouldn't stand for it. I'm different though. I feel I can turn this round. Will take some work but I'm confident.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I haven't. I know my wife well enough to hold back with that at present. The way I am doing it will work better right now for me/us. If I get no response to what I am doing & our chat I will give her the ultimatum.


I like this.

Telling her could cause her to change for a time but it might not be genuine, and even temporary.

She would be checking off the boxes. 
I think OP wants real change, motivated by the heart not the calendar.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> You do have a really strange situation with your wife. I still think it may be the antidepressants.


It maybe. I have nothing to compare 'us' to to be honest. I don't know if this situation is really odd or quite a common one. I will be pushing AD avenue if I see no reaction in the next month. I have a few different tactics. I'm sure one will work. I just need to dial into the 'one' sooner rather than later


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I'm dedicated to leave in 6 months if it comes to it. I was trying to say I won't just be leaving today as some have advised me to do. I will be doing everything I can to make this work but if I get nothing back then I will be off in 6 months time.


If you don’t see your wife “doing her part” in making the changes necessary - there’s no value in you making all the effort.

I think that is what people are trying to point out.

Second thing of note - you need to be a strong - very strong man. One who leads! Not a passive player in this union. Being a passive participant isn’t going to cut it for this scenario.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> If you don’t see your wife “doing her part” in making the changes necessary - there’s no value in you making all the effort.
> 
> I think that is what people are trying to point out.
> 
> Second thing of note - you need to be a strong - very strong man. One who leads! Not a passive player in this union. Being a passive participant isn’t going to cut it for this scenario.


I hear you. I'll be tackling this situation head on. May take time but it will be done without fearing the outcome. I will be initiating & getting on with my life more. I've been staying in a lot over the past 6 months for no reason just how things have worked out. But I'm going to start getting out there with my mates again. Some distance between us like that may make her think twice about taking me for granted


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I hear you. I'll be tackling this situation head on. May take time but it will be done without fearing the outcome. I will be initiating & getting on with my life more. I've been staying in a lot over the past 6 months for no reason just how things have worked out. But I'm going to start getting out there with my mates again. Some distance between us like that may make her think twice about taking me for granted


Now your getting it, good for you!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Last time we had sex there was a lot of kissing. Loads. It didn't feel like duty sex to me. My wife initiated it too. She maybe a good actor but she initated the whole thing.


Or something or someone else got her motor running. Especially if it isn’t you she wants to be with, 18 months and only 2 times proves she doesn’t want sex with you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

To me it’s odd because you feel loved other than the sex, she still likes to snuggle with you, and your last sex event involved lots of kissing,

however, the wanting a passionate kiss has evaporated.

makes me wonder if she did have an affair or still is.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> To me it’s odd because you feel loved other than the sex, she still likes to snuggle with you, and your last sex event involved lots of kissing,
> 
> however, the wanting a passionate kiss has evaporated.
> 
> makes me wonder if she did have an affair or still is.


Yes I feel completely loved in all other ways by her. Like I said if she decides to take a day out in town she will always want me to go with her. She will cuddle & hold hands. She texts me when I'm out. If she is out she will call me out the blue for a quick chat. She talks about our future together a lot & moving into a nicer place. It is simply the sex side that has gone downhill. Everything else is pretty much the same.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I feel completely loved in all other ways by her. Like I said if she decides to take a day out in town she will always want me to go with her. She will cuddle & hold hands. She texts me when I'm out. If she is out she will call me out the blue for a quick chat. She talks about our future together a lot & moving into a nicer place. It is simply the sex side that has gone downhill. Everything else is pretty much the same.


Everything in your post here happens you say, but not sex.

There's a disconnect somewhere. 

Is it you're stretching things here and there, not being truthful in your side of things? As the norm, we're hearing circumstances from only one side, yours. 

What are you NOT saying?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Everything in your post here happens you say, but not sex.
> 
> There's a disconnect somewhere.
> 
> ...


No I've stated the situation/past as accurately as I can. I admitted to not helping the cause by saying she needed mental help & leaving for 3 days. I know my faults & I'd admit to them on here but really I don't see anything else that I've done or not doing.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I've stated the situation/past as accurately as I can. I admitted to not helping the cause by saying she needed mental help & leaving for 3 days. I know my faults & I'd admit to them on here but really I don't see anything else that I've done or not doing.


You're doing good, but some of the Ws actions are incongruent.

Like a chef cooking a great meal and announcing it's ready but finding any reason not to actually let anyone eat.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You're doing good, but some of the Ws actions are incongruent.
> 
> Like a chef cooking a great meal and announcing it's ready but finding any reason not to actually let anyone eat.


You're right. I can't get my head round it & what is going on inside her head.

I'm focusing on all the things I said I would though at present & going with that. If nothing else it is helping my own mind. I'm in a better place than 2 weeks ago.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

I was listening to a radio broadcast of Dr. Laura Schlessinger yesterday and thought about OP. A husband and wife called in with the same issue. They too had a close and loving relationship but there was little sex. When asked to rate herself on a scale of 1-10 with a 10 being a wife completely providing for her husband's needs, the wife rated herself at a 2. The wife described how much she loved her husband so Dr. Laura asked her "then why are you intentionally hurting your husband?" She just kept driving that idea into the wife, telling her that she had everything she needed to make her husband happy and yet she intentionally hurt him. Then she asked, 'what is going on in your head that would have you treat your husband this way?' The wife had no excuse. She then asked the wife where she wanted to be on the scale, I don't recall the answer but Dr. Laura told her to ramp it up to a 6 tonight; not 6 months from now...TONIGHT!

OP, you may need to get some professional help with this issue. If your wife won't go, then that tells you all you need to know. Your wife knows that she is hurting you, she knows that she has the power to stop hurting you, if she is unwilling to do what it takes, including medical evaluations and counseling, then you know that she doesn't really love you and you are wasting your time with her. Good luck to you sir.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Diceplayer said:


> I was listening to a radio broadcast of Dr. Laura Schlessinger yesterday and thought about OP. A husband and wife called in with the same issue. They too had a close and loving relationship but there was little sex. When asked to rate herself on a scale of 1-10 with a 10 being a wife completely providing for her husband's needs, the wife rated herself at a 2. The wife described how much she loved her husband so Dr. Laura asked her "then why are you intentionally hurting your husband?" She just kept driving that idea into the wife, telling her that she had everything she needed to make her husband happy and yet she intentionally hurt him. Then she asked, 'what is going on in your head that would have you treat your husband this way?' The wife had no excuse. She then asked the wife where she wanted to be on the scale, I don't recall the answer but Dr. Laura told her to ramp it up to a 6 tonight; not 6 months from now...TONIGHT!
> 
> OP, you may need to get some professional help with this issue. If your wife won't go, then that tells you all you need to know. Your wife knows that she is hurting you, she knows that she has the power to stop hurting you, if she is unwilling to do what it takes, including medical evaluations and counseling, then you know that she doesn't really love you and you are wasting your time with her. Good luck to you sir.


That sounds to me like a misunderstanding of "love"
Something like "I love you and will attend to your needs as long as I'm first"
sad.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> You're right. I can't get my head round it & what is going on inside her head.
> 
> I'm focusing on all the things I said I would though at present & going with that. If nothing else it is helping my own mind. I'm in a better place than 2 weeks ago.


It may help jumpstart certain things by picking just one thing, a simple thing you are capable of defining, sharing that one thing good naturedly, and starting with small successes. 

The best analogy I can come up with at the moment is - 

Don't say this:
1. Honey, please find me something to mark this file I'm working on so I can find it later.

Say this:
2. Honey please hand me that pencil that's on the table by you.

You see the difference?

If W is on board she'll appreciate not having to try and interpret what you want by you stating something clearly as in example #2.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I feel completely loved in all other ways by her. Like I said if she decides to take a day out in town she will always want me to go with her. She will cuddle & hold hands. She texts me when I'm out. If she is out she will call me out the blue for a quick chat. She talks about our future together a lot & moving into a nicer place. It is simply the sex side that has gone downhill. Everything else is pretty much the same.


This is NOT what I expect to hear. I really think your wife does care about you but has no sex drive for medical reasons. Like it’s not totally her fault. The sad thing is, I hear of few cases that get fixed by medicine long term.
But I really think it’s worth checking into.

and I don’t think one fight months ago should affect this if she still seems to love you in every other way.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> I was listening to a radio broadcast of Dr. Laura Schlessinger yesterday and thought about OP. A husband and wife called in with the same issue. They too had a close and loving relationship but there was little sex. When asked to rate herself on a scale of 1-10 with a 10 being a wife completely providing for her husband's needs, the wife rated herself at a 2. The wife described how much she loved her husband so Dr. Laura asked her "then why are you intentionally hurting your husband?" She just kept driving that idea into the wife, telling her that she had everything she needed to make her husband happy and yet she intentionally hurt him. Then she asked, 'what is going on in your head that would have you treat your husband this way?' The wife had no excuse. She then asked the wife where she wanted to be on the scale, I don't recall the answer but Dr. Laura told her to ramp it up to a 6 tonight; not 6 months from now...TONIGHT!
> 
> OP, you may need to get some professional help with this issue. If your wife won't go, then that tells you all you need to know. Your wife knows that she is hurting you, she knows that she has the power to stop hurting you, if she is unwilling to do what it takes, including medical evaluations and counseling, then you know that she doesn't really love you and you are wasting your time with her. Good luck to you sir.


That does sound like us. I have sat here thinking how I would feel if this was the other way round & I was the one uninterested in sex for 18 months. Especially if my wife told me she was missing being with me so much.

1, I would be sitting here feeling bad for not making my wife happy.
2, I would be feeling like a let down (like the lady on the radio).
3, I would be getting worried thinking if I'm not providing is she going elsewhere?

Can others relate to that? She must be thinking those things a little surely?

To me she doesn't seem to feel bad or feel any of the emotions above.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I've stated the situation/past as accurately as I can. I admitted to not helping the cause by saying she needed mental help & leaving for 3 days. I know my faults & I'd admit to them on here but really I don't see anything else that I've done or not doing.


Knowing your faults is great, but what are you doing to resolve the argument and the fall out? It seems to me that the actual argument was never resolved. The fallout of the argument has also not been resolved.
Why haven't you fixed the noise issue and your squeaking bed? Do you actually want to make love to your wife or not?


Evinrude58 said:


> and I don’t think one fight months ago should affect this if she still seems to love you in every other way.


It was a huge fight that happened a year and a half ago. Since then, they have only had sex twice. I'd say something clicked in her and she is stuck in that space.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That does sound like us. I have sat here thinking how I would feel if this was the other way round & I was the one uninterested in sex for 18 months. Especially if my wife told me she was missing being with me so much.
> 
> 1, I would be sitting here feeling bad for not making my wife happy.
> 2, I would be feeling like a let down (like the lady on the radio).
> ...


If she isn't thinking those things then she either doesn't really care for some reason or lacks empathy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> Knowing your faults is great, but what are you doing to resolve the argument and the fall out? It seems to me that the actual argument was never resolved. The fallout of the argument has also not been resolved.
> Why haven't you fixed the noise issue and your squeaking bed? Do you actually want to make love to your wife or not?
> 
> It was a huge fight that happened a year and a half ago. Since then, they have only had sex twice. I'd say something clicked in her and she is stuck in that space.


You could be right, but it was good sex according to OP, and they have a great relationship according to him, and saying something is stuck in her head just doesn’t really sound logical to me. I wonder how long ago she started the antidepressants? Was it 18 months ago?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> You could be right, but it was good sex according to OP, and they have a great relationship according to him, and saying something is stuck in her head just doesn’t really sound logical to me. I wonder how long ago she started the antidepressants? Was it 18 months ago?


I don't discount that it could have to do with the anti-depressants. I'm wondering if she went on them after the big fight and it's a perfect storm. It seems that there's quite a lot going on here.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> You could be right, but it was good sex according to OP, and they have a great relationship according to him, and saying something is stuck in her head just doesn’t really sound logical to me. I wonder how long ago she started the antidepressants? Was it 18 months ago?


She has been on the AD's for a long time now. Long before she met me. She is on a smaller dose these days but they have no link time wise to the argument 18 months ago. She went on them after her previous partner cheated on her. Again this could all be linked to now & it's all catching up with her but I don't think so. It is linked to the argument in my opinion. She told me in her head I had left when I gave us space for those 3 days.

The ironic thing is like I said in a previous post I only left as an absolute last resort. I tried EVERYTHING to sort the argument - it was HER that wouldn't leave it & was pushing for a reaction. Giving us space was the best thing I thought. Perhaps I was wrong judging by the last 18 months.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@somedayyouwillfindme, Did the two of you ever resolve the argument? Have you scheduled marriage counseling yet?


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

Does she have some sort of trauma in her history? I do, and I know my husband leaving (for THREE DAYS!) would trigger my abandonment issues and I wouldn’t feel safe with him. And when I don’t feel safe, sex is frightening and repulsive. My husband used to leave for half an hour or so after an argument when we were young, and I would freak out. Luckily we were able to talk about it and he stopped doing that.

I think you might both benefit from counseling. It seems to me the betrayal of you abandoning your marriage for 3 days is really being underestimated here. She may have forgiven you enough to feel close in some ways, but trust has likely been deeply damaged.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme, Did the two of you ever resolve the argument? Have you scheduled marriage counseling yet?


From my side yes the argument has been 100% resolved. It was resolved shortly after the argument for me. My wife is obviously different & it has got to her. 

Yes I suggested counselling during our talk 2 weeks ago. She said she would rather sort it between us. I'm ok with that at present. As I have said - I have 6 months in my head so I will be upping the ante as we go. I can give her a month to see what happens. If at the end of that I see no real change I can calmly say to her "It's been 4 weeks, I've given you time & seen no change towards me....what are we trying next then?". The pressure will be upped gradually. No point doing it instantly as her reaction will be one of panic. I know others will differ but I know this is the best route with my wife. Bit like the toad in the bowl of boiling water analogy - put him straight in the bowl with boiling water & he will jump straight out.....put him in cool water.......then gradually turn the heat up every day..................by the end of the month the boiling water isn't a shock & you don't get the panic reaction.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Angie?or… said:


> Does she have some sort of trauma in her history? I do, and I know my husband leaving (for THREE DAYS!) would trigger my abandonment issues and I wouldn’t feel safe with him. And when I don’t feel safe, sex is frightening and repulsive. My husband used to leave for half an hour or so after an argument when we were young, and I would freak out. Luckily we were able to talk about it and he stopped doing that.
> 
> I think you might both benefit from counseling. It seems to me the betrayal of you abandoning your marriage for 3 days is really being underestimated here. She may have forgiven you enough to feel close in some ways, but trust has likely been deeply damaged.


Yes I think you are spot on. Her parents abandoned her by kicking her out. Her BF abandoned her by cheating. I 'abandoned' her by leaving for 3 days. I think you're completely correct.

As I said though she pushed me to leave. Really I'm a fair guy (I hope that comes across on here) but I just had to go. I thought it was for the best. She just wouldn't let up. Yet I've been getting the blame for the past 18 months by the looks of it. 

It's either trust & fear issues now because I left or it could be punishment to get back at me. I would go for the first.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I really feel bad for you on this. I don’t have anything left to offer, other than good wishes and that I understand why it’s hard to leave if the only thing missing is sex. If she’s been on the AD’s the whole time, it doesn’t make sense for that to be an issue. 
sadly, it seems her feeling abandoned is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. At least let her in on that a month or so before you leave so she can prepare. 
I wish abandonment issues and such were the problem, but I suspect her brain for whatever reason has some messed up chemicals that take away her sex drive and since she doesn’t want to change, she’ll never seek a solution, and even if there was one it won’t happen. Wishing you both the best.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That does sound like us. I have sat here thinking how I would feel if this was the other way round & I was the one uninterested in sex for 18 months. Especially if my wife told me she was missing being with me so much.
> 
> 1, I would be sitting here feeling bad for not making my wife happy.
> 2, I would be feeling like a let down (like the lady on the radio).
> ...


And this is why you need an answer from her now/today!

You sit her down - explain how much her inactions are causing you harm - and ask her point blank - yes or no - do YOU plan to have sex with me tonight and two times each week moving forward?

No other answer is acceptable except yes or no. Any explanations should be met with is that yes or no.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme 

You don’t have to give me any actual numbers or anything, but is she the first woman you have ever been with either sexually or in a serious LTR? 

Or have you been with other women sexually or in serious ongoing relationships?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I really feel bad for you on this. I don’t have anything left to offer, other than good wishes and that I understand why it’s hard to leave if the only thing missing is sex. If she’s been on the AD’s the whole time, it doesn’t make sense for that to be an issue. 
sadly, it seems her feeling abandoned is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. At least let her in on that a month or so before you leave so she can prepare.
I wish abandonment issues and such were the problem, but I suspect her brain for whatever reason has some messed up chemicals that take away her sex drive and since she doesn’t want to change, she’ll never seek a solution, and even if there was one it won’t happen. Wishing you both the best


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I suggested counselling during our talk 2 weeks ago. She said she would rather sort it between us.


I need to make a very important point here.

The reason she doesn’t want to go to MC is she knows a trained professional will see her for the mental issues she has and also because she will be called out on and held accountable for her actions.

When my wife and I were going through some rough patches and I was calling her out on some crap, she was the one insisting we go to MC.

The very first session the MC suggested she get a mental/emotional evaluation. She was livid but did ultimately seek further evaluation and treatment. 

A couple years later when the sht was really starting to hit the fan she agreed to MC but with another counselor and in the first couple sessions when he was calling her out on her role and coming right out in asking her if she was wanting to be a single mother of two elementary school aged kids, she closed the door on any further MC. 

Your wife knows she has problems and knows she’s not cut’n it. 

She doesn’t want her mental issues to be brought out into the open and she doesn’t want to be called out and held accountable for her actions. 

And I think more importantly, she doesn’t want a professional letting YOU know how messed up she really is.

She has had you completely bamboozled and wrapped around her little finger jumping through hoops and doing cute tricks for her for a couples years. 

A professional telling you that she is messed up in the head and behaving badly will bring that all crashing down.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I need to make a very important point here.
> 
> The reason she doesn’t want to go to MC is she knows a trained professional will see her for the mental issues she has and also because she will be called out on and held accountable for her actions.
> 
> ...


That's one thing I've always wondered....does she know she has problems & isn't functioning like most people? I've always thought deep down she must do. Especially when I said she needed mental help....maybe I struck a nerve & that is part of this.

I assumed she shot down the MC & sex therapist for those reasons. I've mentioned counselling in the past too but that was shot down in flames. All the time it's just her & me and these 4 walls nobody knows the truth. I think she knows should we speak to someone I may be proved right. I think she is also petrified of breaking down & all this hurt from the past will come out. She is so used to her role as the 'victim'. I've actually said that to her before "you're not the victim" in this situation. 

Yes she is the first serious LTR for me. Not my first sex wise, there have been others.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

That she us unwilling to seek out help is not a good sign that she wants to change.

you should get the ball rolling with an attorney because divorce takes a long time abd you can always stop it. From what you’ve said she ain’t changing a thing until she feels some heat. You are really reluctant to start giving her any consequences. All you’re doing now I think is allowing her to stall you further. 
I’m not suggesting ANYTHING will work, but just saying what I observe is happening. I know you have a plan and you know her better than anyone.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I need to make a very important point here.
> 
> The reason she doesn’t want to go to MC is she knows a trained professional will see her for the mental issues she has and also because she will be called out on and held accountable for her actions.
> 
> ...


Very much agree.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That's one thing I've always wondered....does she know she has problems & isn't functioning like most people? I've always thought deep down she must do. Especially when I said she needed mental help....maybe I struck a nerve & that is part of this.
> 
> I assumed she shot down the MC & sex therapist for those reasons. I've mentioned counselling in the past too but that was shot down in flames. All the time it's just her & me and these 4 walls nobody knows the truth. I think she knows should we speak to someone I may be proved right. I think she is also petrified of breaking down & all this hurt from the past will come out. She is so used to her role as the 'victim'. I've actually said that to her before "you're not the victim" in this situation.
> 
> Yes she is the first serious LTR for me. Not my first sex wise, there have been others.


She is going to be resistant to any kind of professional intervention for the reasons you and I have both stated. You are correct on that.

The catch here is that if you want this marriage to have a snowball’s chance in and hell and you want a chance to have an active and satisfying sex life with her, you are going to have to have professional assistance.

I am assuming that you are not mental health professional or a marital counselor or a sex therapist, so you will not have the education, training or resources to take care of these issues. (Even actual shrinks and therapists etc may not be able to fix it either) 

If you’ve already kinda decided you’ve had enough and are basically starting to prepare yourself to leave, that is fine. 

But if your ultimate objective is to remain together in a happy, healthy, intimate marriage, then you are going to have to have professional assistance and guidance. 

This is beyond the realm of what toning up muscles, getting into hobbies and doing things with buddies will fix.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You really need to say if you aren’t willing (with an open mind) to go to counseling - I’ll have no choice but to file for divorce. Mainly because I have no hope that you will change and grow WITH me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I feel completely loved in all other ways by her. Like I said if she decides to take a day out in town she will always want me to go with her. She will cuddle & hold hands. She texts me when I'm out. If she is out she will call me out the blue for a quick chat. She talks about our future together a lot & moving into a nicer place. It is simply the sex side that has gone downhill. Everything else is pretty much the same.


This is good. At the thirty day mark with no (assuming) progress, you will have many options to reinforce your point. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

All of this analysis is good, but...

...and I can't emphasize this enough... 

...OP, it is not your job to fix this. It is your job to provide her an environment in which she chooses to fix this herself...or not.

As long as you continue to try to find ways to fix it yourself, it both absolves her of the need to address something that is clearly hers to address, and it leads you down the same path that caused 18 months of limbo.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

But also reinforcing bad behavior (or rewarding) bad behavior isn’t productive.

All this physical touch and cuddling is just…her being a tease!

Heck, I don’t even know people who date that would stay if it never lead to any sex.

Is there any sexual abuse in her history?

You really need to start with holding touch - so she gets the idea that you are NOT ok with the status quo.

You have been sending a message that touch is enough to keep you satisfied.

Let her know with actions that it’s not enough.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> But also reinforcing bad behavior (or rewarding) bad behavior isn’t productive.
> 
> All this physical touch and cuddling is just…her being a tease!
> 
> ...


That you can't see this as a setup, which it clearly is, shows how emotionally charged the issue is for you.

I don't believe nicing her will change much, if anything. It didn't for my wife, either.

The one month is designed to do a couple of things.

One, you make sure she has a very good feel for what it's like to have her needs unconditionally met.

Two, it leads to a huge upsetting of the apple cart when he lowers the thermostat because, for the last month, he has been going out of his way to meet her needs. Then suddenly, the bottom falls out and he's doing nothing for her.

It is absolutely designed to be shock and awe.

This is chess, not checkers.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I've stated the situation/past as accurately as I can. I admitted to not helping the cause by saying she needed mental help & leaving for 3 days. I know my faults & I'd admit to them on here but really I don't see anything else that I've done or not doing.



Leaving for three days is a excuse. It isn’t the reason. Saying truthfully that she needs metal help is a excuse as well. 

These are not the reasons that she stopped having sex with you.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> But also reinforcing bad behavior (or rewarding) bad behavior isn’t productive.
> 
> All this physical touch and cuddling is just…her being a tease!
> 
> ...


I fully get what you are saying really I do but I'm playing the long game to sort this out. I'm not enjoying this month doing all she wants BUT I know in 3 weeks I will be changing it (assuming I see no action). Yes it is like a tease cuddling & being that close to her you're right when we haven't had sex for ages (I don't think she see's it that way or does it on purpose). What I don't understand is how she doesn't feel the same. How can she not be feeling the same after not having sex for this amount of time. It's like a switch has gone off & at present I can't find a way to switch it back on. Being close & touching seems to be doing nothing to get her going like it certainly is for me.

I have to try this for 1 month for my own sake doing it her way. Assuming it doesn't work which I doubt it will I will be doing things my way more - no to the cuddling, I will decline her invites of joining her for days out, I will be coming home later from work each day & I will be getting out more myself. I have already arranged 2 nights out in the next couple of weeks which will start turning things round. My thought process is - if 'A' doesn't work then I'll try plan 'B', if 'B' doesn't work I'll try plan 'C'. One of these tactics will get me more results than others I would think. I just need to dial into the one that starts seeing a change (sooner rather than later I hope). If all else fails it will be a threat/promise - I love you, I want us to work but I have tried EVERYTHING. If you are unable to AT LEAST meet me half way then I'm moving out & filing for divorce.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> All of this analysis is good, but...
> 
> ...and I can't emphasize this enough...
> 
> ...


Yes I hear you - I fully understand this is not down to me. I can only do my side of things 100% as best I can. As long as I do that & try different approaches then should it not work out I can walk away with my head held high. She will be the one left behind as I can move back into the family home with her left in our current home unable to pay the rent.

It's something to do with her, it's a trait in her life. I always used to believe her about her past but the more I see the more I doubt it to be exactly as she say's it. I'm not saying she is outright lying as some of things she has told me are very specific & doubt you would make that sort of stuff up BUT she does distort what happens. I have witnessed it myself. Something will happen & she will take something from it and I will sit there thinking "that is not what happened at all, how are you seeing this?

It's one of 2 things in my opinion:

1, She is the way she is because of what has happened to her

or,

2, What has happened to her is BECAUSE of the way she is.

I will never know as I can't go back to her childhood or when her ex cheated on her. All I know is she has no family or friends at all - it is literally the 3 of us. I don't have a big family but I do have a close family & a good circle of friends. I've said it before to a friend of mine who I confide in "if she was like this with her ex I can see if you're that way inclined to cheat why he did it". I never would - I would simply leave but I can see how easy it would have been for him. The story I get is he was a drinker & gambler. Whether that is true again I will never know.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

You mentioned that your wife does not have original family and friends - could this be a factor? Any mutual friends? Is she socially withdrawn? Is she feeling low? She might need some perspective.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You mentioned that your wife does not have original family and friends - could this be a factor? Any mutual friends? Is she withdrawn? Is she feeling down?


It could be but it's been like that since I've known her, family wise at least. Her parents have been trying to contact her every once a year or so via letter as somehow they found our address but the letters are ignored & put in the bin. Friends wise she did have a couple (female) but during this Covid era they have had difference of opinions & gone their separate ways. The friends falling out are nothing major though as they only saw each other once a year if that. I think her family/past haunts her a lot more than she lets on but again it has always been like that. I picked up on that years ago. It could be her past is catching up with her & it's all coming out now and she is withdrawn because of that. As I've been told before people like that are holding a beach ball under water all the time, fighting against it from coming up, every now & then they can't contain it anymore & BOOM you have an outburst. I've said to her before when she has had a big outburst off the back of something so trivial "why are you shouting, what is wrong, nothing major has happened?" She has responded with "it's been building up in me for ages, it's not even to do with this instance it's just the catalyst".

It could be to do with her past but factually it hasn't been the same since the argument so I'm still leaning that way more but I agree her unresolved past is not helping her/me/us. Also something that isn't helping is the lack of family & friends as she has no outlet. Nobody to talk to apart from me so everything is just kept inside her head building up & up.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I fully get what you are saying really I do but I'm playing the long game to sort this out. I'm not enjoying this month doing all she wants BUT I know in 3 weeks I will be changing it (assuming I see no action). Yes it is like a tease cuddling & being that close to her you're right when we haven't had sex for ages (I don't think she see's it that way or does it on purpose). What I don't understand is how she doesn't feel the same. How can she not be feeling the same after not having sex for this amount of time. It's like a switch has gone off & at present I can't find a way to switch it back on. Being close & touching seems to be doing nothing to get her going like it certainly is for me.
> 
> I have to try this for 1 month for my own sake doing it her way. Assuming it doesn't work which I doubt it will I will be doing things my way more - no to the cuddling, I will decline her invites of joining her for days out, I will be coming home later from work each day & I will be getting out more myself. I have already arranged 2 nights out in the next couple of weeks which will start turning things round. My thought process is - if 'A' doesn't work then I'll try plan 'B', if 'B' doesn't work I'll try plan 'C'. One of these tactics will get me more results than others I would think. I just need to dial into the one that starts seeing a change (sooner rather than later I hope). If all else fails it will be a threat/promise - I love you, I want us to work but I have tried EVERYTHING. If you are unable to AT LEAST meet me half way then I'm moving out & filing for divorce.


For this month you're planning, are you (physically) reminding her you're open to having it move to something more while you're cuddling?

If not, it may be a one sided test - because her established habit is to cuddle and be happy with that, and that's going to be a difficult pattern for her to break without reminders. 

I know she knows what's expected, but it would be sad for the month to end and have her say she didn't see you were interested anymore, so she just assumed you put the expectation aside.

Because she can fight to the death over something fairly trivial, she may not be taking your ultimatum at face value. In her mind it may get dismissed as just another past argument, and reverts back to hand holding and cuddling.

At minimum you could ask: 3 weeks left, 2 weeks left, 1 week left, how are you feeling about this? In a caring way, not pressuring her. The pressure to change has to come from her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> For this month you're planning, are you (physically) reminding her you're open to having it move to something more while you're cuddling?
> 
> If not, it may be a one sided test - because her established habit is to cuddle and be happy with that, and that's going to be a difficult pattern for her to break without reminders.
> 
> ...


Yes I am/will be reminding her. There will be pressure applied. If she doesn't respond the pressure will mount over the coming weeks. I need to find a happy medium & go with that. Not outright pressure so she goes into her shell but an extra passionate kiss here & there. Some kisses to her neck as we're cuddling. Something will get through to her it's just figuring out what!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I fully get what you are saying really I do but I'm playing the long game to sort this out. I'm not enjoying this month doing all she wants BUT I know in 3 weeks I will be changing it (assuming I see no action). Yes it is like a tease cuddling & being that close to her you're right when we haven't had sex for ages (I don't think she see's it that way or does it on purpose). What I don't understand is how she doesn't feel the same. How can she not be feeling the same after not having sex for this amount of time. It's like a switch has gone off & at present I can't find a way to switch it back on. Being close & touching seems to be doing nothing to get her going like it certainly is for me.
> 
> I have to try this for 1 month for my own sake doing it her way. Assuming it doesn't work which I doubt it will I will be doing things my way more - no to the cuddling, I will decline her invites of joining her for days out, I will be coming home later from work each day & I will be getting out more myself. I have already arranged 2 nights out in the next couple of weeks which will start turning things round. My thought process is - if 'A' doesn't work then I'll try plan 'B', if 'B' doesn't work I'll try plan 'C'. One of these tactics will get me more results than others I would think. I just need to dial into the one that starts seeing a change (sooner rather than later I hope). If all else fails it will be a threat/promise - I love you, I want us to work but I have tried EVERYTHING. If you are unable to AT LEAST meet me half way then I'm moving out & filing for divorce.


She doesn't feel the same because she didn't want you, sexually. It really is that simple. 

Between this and your other recent posts, it looks like you are going to continue to try to psychoanalize her and nothing will change. Oh she behaves like this because A,B,C.

She's not into you sexually. She IS into cuddling (I love platonic cuddling my puppy, too), doing things together, having a life partner, all minus the things that are present in an intimate, NON FRIENDS relationship. 

If she cared about being in a full marriage, and marriage is a sexual relationship, it isn't "just friends" unless both parties want an asexual marriage, she would be worried and working JUST AS HARD AS YOU to figure out why she doesn't want sex with you. 

You shouldn't have to be spinning around wondering what's going to work to "get through to her".

My opinion is that it really is simple. She's not interested in a sex life with you and isn't work on changing that. Period, end of story.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> My opinion is that it really is simple. She's not interested in a sex life with you and isn't work on changing that. Period, end of story.


I know it's not a popular position, but I think you are right because her interest lies elsewhere.
I give that about 65-70% probability.
I really hope I'm wrong.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> It could be but it's been like that since I've known her, family wise at least. Her parents have been trying to contact her every once a year or so via letter as somehow they found our address but the letters are ignored & put in the bin. Friends wise she did have a couple (female) but during this Covid era they have had difference of opinions & gone their separate ways. The friends falling out are nothing major though as they only saw each other once a year if that. I think her family/past haunts her a lot more than she lets on but again it has always been like that. I picked up on that years ago. It could be her past is catching up with her & it's all coming out now and she is withdrawn because of that. As I've been told before people like that are holding a beach ball under water all the time, fighting against it from coming up, every now & then they can't contain it anymore & BOOM you have an outburst. I've said to her before when she has had a big outburst off the back of something so trivial "why are you shouting, what is wrong, nothing major has happened?" She has responded with "it's been building up in me for ages, it's not even to do with this instance it's just the catalyst".
> 
> It could be to do with her past but factually it hasn't been the same since the argument so I'm still leaning that way more but I agree her unresolved past is not helping her/me/us. Also something that isn't helping is the lack of family & friends as she has no outlet. Nobody to talk to apart from me so everything is just kept inside her head building up & up.


Thanks for the share. She sounds withdrawn to me due to her pent-up feelings.

I have checked some of the posts in this thread and #377 was particularly enlightening. It looks like your wife finds your current home inadequate. Your son lives in a room next to yours and your privacy is compromised consequently. Your bed is in poor shape as well. These are valid concerns.

My wife is willing to be intimate with me but she is also privacy-conscious. The bedrooms in my home have gaps between them. The bed in each room is made of wood and does not make noises.

You had an argument with your wife and you left your home for 3 full days? Never do this. Ever. You are the man of your household and you need to show strength in situations like this. You could make your wife sleep with your son for 3 days.

Your financial situation might be difficult and it might not be easy for you to move to a new home soon (understandable) but you should try to manage other things. You need to change your bed at earliest and tell your son to go out for cycling for like 40 minutes when you want to have sex with your wife.

You may also take your wife to a beautiful (but safe) place and spend some time with her there. Your wife might open up to you there. Take a makeshift tent with you for privacy to save costs.

As for your wife being concerned about pregnancy - tell her to believe in you. A man's fortune can shift over time. You may use condom(s) otherwise. I would not suggest your wife to take birth control pills in her current frame of mind.

I do feel that your wife needs to have some perspective about marriage and how to make it work. Sometimes what others have to say can be more impactful then what you can tell her. If you have trustworthy married friends then you may convince them to come to your place and talk about how they are doing in front of your wife for a change. They might make her realize that she has a good husband and should support you.

Your wife needs to have a closure about her original family. This is NOT urgent but can be done at some point. Are you in touch with her original family? Are they reasonable people?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Does your wife work full time? Does she earn enough to support herself?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I am/will be reminding her. There will be pressure applied. If she doesn't respond the pressure will mount over the coming weeks. I need to find a happy medium & go with that. Not outright pressure so she goes into her shell but an extra passionate kiss here & there. Some kisses to her neck as we're cuddling. Something will get through to her it's just figuring out what!


For clarity, it isn't pressure you will be applying, or you will fail. 

You are creating a vacuum. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I am/will be reminding her. There will be pressure applied. If she doesn't respond the pressure will mount over the coming weeks. I need to find a happy medium & go with that. Not outright pressure so she goes into her shell but an extra passionate kiss here & there. Some kisses to her neck as we're cuddling. Something will get through to her it's just figuring out what!


At this point I don't see how you can stretch improvements period over another few weeks. 

What's your duration of time to see improvement?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> For clarity, it isn't pressure you will be applying, or you will fail.
> 
> You are creating a vacuum.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


When you say vacuum what do you mean exactly? Give her these 3 weeks of everything she wants & then draw back to remove them all?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> At this point I don't see how you can stretch improvements period over another few weeks.
> 
> What's your duration of time to see improvement?


I'm here for 6 months. I'm trying giving her everything she wants for 1 month. I'm already a week into that so 3 more weeks. If I see no reaction or change my plan is to take away those things she likes & spend more time out doing my things & see if that works.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm here for 6 months. I'm trying giving her everything she wants for 1 month. I'm already a week into that so 3 more weeks. If I see no reaction or change my plan is to take away those things she likes & spend more time out doing my things & see if that works.


Good idea. But six more months? That long?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> When you say vacuum what do you mean exactly? Give her these 3 weeks of everything she wants & then draw back to remove them all?


That is essentially it. You are creating an overwhelming environment of comfort for your wife right now. At the 30 day mark, depending on how aggressive you want to be with lowering the thermostat, she will feel the absence of that comfort. 

So Feb 18th or thereabouts is your 1 month mark, correct?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Good idea. But six more months? That long?


Yes it's worth it to me. I know it's a long time but this won't be resolved in a month. Pointless just pushing it to get sex once tomorrow which is all fake. I'm trying to sort this for life so for the sake of 6 months I will go with that. That's the plan at present at least.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> That is essentially it. You are creating an overwhelming environment of comfort for your wife right now. At the 30 day mark, depending on how aggressive you want to be with lowering the thermostat, she will feel the absence of that comfort.
> 
> So Feb 18th or thereabouts is your 1 month mark, correct?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Yes that's what I thought you meant & what my plan is. Any advice for turning the heat down in a month? Do it gradually over 2 weeks or just stop it overnight? I'm leaning towards the first but that's just me.

Yes the 18th will be a month near enough.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes that's what I thought you meant & what my plan is. Any advice for turning the heat down in a month? Do it gradually over 2 weeks or just stop it overnight? I'm leaning towards the first but that's just me.
> 
> Yes the 18th will be a month near enough.


Clean stop.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

I agree with stop overnight. It’s supposed to be noticeable and uncomfortable for her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes that's what I thought you meant & what my plan is. Any advice for turning the heat down in a month? Do it gradually over 2 weeks or just stop it overnight? I'm leaning towards the first but that's just me.
> 
> Yes the 18th will be a month near enough.


That is up to you. I picked 3 or 4 key things that immediately communicated to her, through actions rather than words, that she was no longer my priority. 

You can do more, or less, all at once, or gradual. I would say that the harder the initial impact, the more attention it will garner...but...the more hysterical the push back will likely be.

If you follow Ragnar's advice and stop everything, I can almost promise she will become rabid over it. You must be prepared for it, or it will catch you off guard. 

You must be ready to be imminently calm in all of your interactions with her as you tell her "no".

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It’s shocking - as a woman - to witness this situation with your wife taking everything from you to get her needs met - but she’s unwilling to give you what she knows you want.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> It’s shocking - as a woman - to witness this situation with your wife taking everything from you to get her needs met - but she’s unwilling to give you what she knows you want.


Any less shocking than a man who doesn't give his wife undivided attention when she needs to vent about her day?

What it really comes down to is whether or not we treat our spouses like we love them. 

Talk is cheap. Actions are what matter.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

To further build on everything, start committing two sayings to memory:

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

Use this when she complains about you no longer meeting her needs. She will likely accuse you of making this all about sex. When she does, simply tell her, " I'm sorry you feel that way." Then walk away and do something you want to do. 

Remember, when it gets to this point, it is no longer about talk, which is negotiation. It is about boundaries, which are firm.

"It's hard to hear your words when your actions say something else entirely."

Use this when she says she loves you and doesn't want to lose the marriage.

Once again, this statement is designed to stop any form of debate. This is about you enforcing boundaries. Your boundary is that you insist on having a marriage with a sexually active partner. You don't have to communicate specifically that to her, but that is the line you are holding.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> She will likely accuse you of making this all about sex. When she does, simply tell her, " I'm sorry you feel that way." Then walk away and do something you want to do.


“If this were all about sex, we would have been divorced a year ago.”


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> “If this were all about sex, we would have been divorced a year ago.”


A year and a half ago.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Any less shocking than a man who doesn't give his wife undivided attention when she needs to vent about her day?
> 
> What it really comes down to is whether or not we treat our spouses like we love them.
> 
> ...


What, after 10 minutes you're not thinking about how to load the tackle box for the next fishing trip? 😉

What were we talking about?

🤣🤣🤣


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> A year and a half ago.


I’m giving a grace period and including the time it would take for the divorce to go through.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What, after 10 minutes you're not thinking about how to load the tackle box for the next fishing trip?
> 
> What were we talking about?


Sometimes, brother. Sometimes...

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> It’s shocking - as a woman - to witness this situation with your wife taking everything from you to get her needs met - but she’s unwilling to give you what she knows you want.


I know it's tough to take to be honest. Trying my best to sort it. Tough though.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> That is up to you. I picked 3 or 4 key things that immediately communicated to her, through actions rather than words, that she was no longer my priority.
> 
> You can do more, or less, all at once, or gradual. I would say that the harder the initial impact, the more attention it will garner...but...the more hysterical the push back will likely be.
> 
> ...


I'll see how I feel in 3 weeks. Will judge it fully then as anything can happen in the next 21 days. I'll keep an open mind & go with it nearer the day. 

Your 2 quotes have been stored & ready to use once I need them!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'll see how I feel in 3 weeks. Will judge it fully then as anything can happen in the next 21 days. I'll keep an open mind & go with it nearer the day.
> 
> Your 2 quotes have been stored & ready to use once I need them!


My guess is nothing will happen in 21 days.

Will the sky fall and all will be lost if you institute your plan and appease her for a month and nothing changes??? 

No, it will just be status quo, but at least you will have checked that off of your check off list. 

When that day arrives however, I want you to think about something.

One of the things that I believe all couples that have gone a year or more without any physical intimacy is that the rejected partner has allowed it through his/her own actions. 

On the TV series “Criminal Minds” they always talk about ‘victimology’ and determine what the victims had in common and what traits and characteristics the victim had that may have contributed to them being murdered in horrific ways. 

They all have some kind of common thread amongst each other that contributed to the serial killer picking them.

I believe the same takes place in sexless marriages. 

There many be countless causes and each couple may have its own unique set of circumstances, but the victimology in all of these cases are the denied party, whether it is the husband or the wife, all do the following-

#1: they remain in the relationship. 

#2: they all try to appease the other and all try to make that person as comfortable and content as possible. Especially if the other says that they are “pressuring.” If they do anything different at all, it is they dance harder and try to jump through more hoops and try to make the other person’s life easier. ( I was the biggest offender on that one so I should know)

#3: they tell themselves excuses on why their situation is unique and that there is just some kind of code in their own behavior that they haven’t cracked yet. 

There are probably more traits and characteristics that they all have in common but that is what I can come up with off of the top of my head right now.

........ and you have all 3 of those common elements of victimology. 

Go ahead and dance harder and jump through more hoops and don’t pressure her or make her uncomfortable at all. You have a plan in place so at least you have a plan and you might as well stick to it.

But when next month rolls around, at least be honest to yourself if that segment of the plan did not work.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Still no sex? Did you really impress upon her mind that this is a serious problem when you had your talk? Seems she’d at least offer some duty sex. It’s been 2 weeks!!! I’m not ready and don’t pressure me shouldn’t get her that far……


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Still no sex? Did you really impress upon her mind that this is a serious problem when you had your talk? Seems she’d at least offer some duty sex. It’s been 2 weeks!!! I’m not ready and don’t pressure me shouldn’t get her that far……


It's been two weeks since she told him that she's worried about the noise and getting pregnant, yet he has not answered when I have asked him repeatedly what he's doing about the noise. He said he was going to get condoms, but did he? Who knows. If they have done nothing to address her concerns, nothing is going to change.

@somedayyouwillfindme, I'd hate to hear that you get divorced, when resolving the issues your wife expressed might change this situation. Once you have taken care of them, tell her that you have done what she asked and now you expect her to do what you asked.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> It's been two weeks since she told him that she's worried about the noise and getting pregnant, yet he has not answered when I have asked him repeatedly what he's doing about the noise. He said he was going to get condoms, but did he? Who knows. If they have done nothing to address her concerns, nothing is going to change.
> 
> @somedayyouwillfindme, I'd hate to hear that you get divorced, when resolving the issues your wife expressed might change this situation. Once you have taken care of them, tell her that you have done what she asked and now you expect her to do what you asked.


This is a fair point. It's hard to say you've done everything when you haven't done everything.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> It's been two weeks since she told him that she's worried about the noise and getting pregnant, yet he has not answered when I have asked him repeatedly what he's doing about the noise. He said he was going to get condoms, but did he? Who knows. If they have done nothing to address her concerns, nothing is going to change.
> 
> @somedayyouwillfindme, I'd hate to hear that you get divorced, when resolving the issues your wife expressed might change this situation. Once you have taken care of them, tell her that you have done what she asked and now you expect her to do what you asked.


I agree that he should fix the problems that she stated.

It’s not like she will rip their clothes and say, “alrighty then, let’s go!!!!” But he should do so she has to come up with another excuse and eventually he’ll see the light.

So here is an honest question @somedayouwillfindme. Why haven’t you fixed those concerns stated???

One of two things with that - 

- one is that you are that asexual yourself that won’t come up with a birth control plan like a responsible 16 year old and won’t fix a squeaky bed and move it away the wall.

- or the other is that you both know darn well that is not really what’s keeping her from having sex with you. 

But why not do it just to check those things off of the list???


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Condoms have been purchased. The bed doesn't make noise it's just the headboard backs onto our sons wall where he is sleeping the other side. As I said before we live in a tiny flat. Moving the bed is not an option due to an in built cupboard on one wall & radiator on other. The flat is so small & we rent so really nothing I can do there. I can't go round knocking things off the wall as it is not our place 

Condoms are here though. Wife knows about them.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> My guess is nothing will happen in 21 days.
> 
> Will the sky fall and all will be lost if you institute your plan and appease her for a month and nothing changes???
> 
> ...


I fully agree with you. I can't deny any of those things - they are facts. In this instance all 3 of those traits can be related to me. There will come a time when they don't but at present they do as I try to sort this out. I'm not in denial, I can relate them to myself at the moment.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Condoms have been purchased. The bed doesn't make noise it's just the headboard backs onto our sons wall where he is sleeping the other side. As I said before we live in a tiny flat. Moving the bed is not an option due to an in built cupboard on one wall & radiator on other. The flat is so small & we rent so really nothing I can do there. I can't go round knocking things off the wall as it is not our place
> 
> Condoms are here though. Wife knows about them.


At least the condoms might prevent the situation where she's not even aware you started before it's over. Wishing you both the best.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Condoms have been purchased. The bed doesn't make noise it's just the headboard backs onto our sons wall where he is sleeping the other side. As I said before we live in a tiny flat. Moving the bed is not an option due to an in built cupboard on one wall & radiator on other. The flat is so small & we rent so really nothing I can do there. I can't go round knocking things off the wall as it is not our place
> 
> Condoms are here though. Wife knows about them.


Maybe replace the mattress with a foam mattress that won't squeak repeatedly pressed down upon?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Maybe replace the mattress with a foam mattress that won't squeak repeatedly pressed down upon?


It's not rocket science. People who want to have sex, have sex. Haven't you all ever been in a squeaky bed or headboard situation in a house with others before? You simply put down a sleeping bag and pillows on the floor and have sex there. 

People who want to have sex, have sex.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I am/will be reminding her. There will be pressure applied. If she doesn't respond the pressure will mount over the coming weeks. I need to find a happy medium & go with that. Not outright pressure so she goes into her shell but an extra passionate kiss here & there. Some kisses to her neck as we're cuddling. Something will get through to her it's just figuring out what!


Do not remind her. You made it clear what is expected. She isn’t a child that needs reminding. It is up to her to fix this or not. Stop treating her like a child, she is a grow adult.


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## Donna Mitra (11 mo ago)

I have the reverse situation. I tried for years to 'talk'. I brought in therapists and he dismissed them within a few sessions. I wish I had found one and insisted that he had to come - or at least gone to one alone to sort out why I was accepting so little for so long. In the end, it took years for me to really understand just how different our libidos and sexual expectations were and what made us satisfied. That is all about ongoing communication, and in my opinion, the sooner you can include a therapist to navigate that conversation, the better. Once there's understanding, then it's a need based conversation. Can we respectfully meet each other's expectations or not, and if not, is that a make or break for our marriage. I found this was more about searching inwards than to my partner for the solution.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Do not remind her. You made it clear what is expected. She isn’t a child that needs reminding. It is up to her to fix this or not. Stop treating her like a child, she is a grow adult.


Yes I mean I will be initiating & reminding her physically what I expect and that I'm not going away. I don't mean I will be verbally telling her everyday. As you say she is an adult, she has heard me - she knows where she stands.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Donna Mitra said:


> I have the reverse situation. I tried for years to 'talk'. I brought in therapists and he dismissed them within a few sessions. I wish I had found one and insisted that he had to come - or at least gone to one alone to sort out why I was accepting so little for so long. In the end, it took years for me to really understand just how different our libidos and sexual expectations were and what made us satisfied. That is all about ongoing communication, and in my opinion, the sooner you can include a therapist to navigate that conversation, the better. Once there's understanding, then it's a need based conversation. Can we respectfully meet each other's expectations or not, and if not, is that a make or break for our marriage. I found this was more about searching inwards than to my partner for the solution.


Maybe her libido has changed. I doubt it as it ties in date wise with the big argument and she has mentioned the argument to me so it's still there in her mind. She used to be fine so doubt her libido goes from twice a week to twice in 18 months. Something else is going on in her head.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Something else is going on in her head.


And until that's sorted, you have zero chances.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> It's not rocket science. People who want to have sex, have sex. Haven't you all ever been in a squeaky bed or headboard situation in a house with others before? You simply put down a sleeping bag and pillows on the floor and have sex there.
> 
> People who want to have sex, have sex.


We’ve done it on the bathroom floor and even in the closet before when the kids were around.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> It's not rocket science. People who want to have sex, have sex. Haven't you all ever been in a squeaky bed or headboard situation in a house with others before? You simply put down a sleeping bag and pillows on the floor and have sex there.
> 
> People who want to have sex, have sex.


Or you just do it anyway even though it makes noise.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

People have sex: 
during wars
in prison
while driving down the road
In boats
In airplanes.

My point: people come up with lots of excuses to not do something they don’t want to do.
Things they want to do, they make happen.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

Maybe hang a blanket between the wall and the headboard? Again I don’t think it will change anything, but it will show you have addressed her “concerns“ (read excuses).


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BTW get the rubber furniture feet or roll stoppers for your bed. We have a huge cal king and a massive heavy wooden frame but certain activities would move it all around the bedroom until I got rubber feet under the posts.

I had sex with my wife in grandma’s house on a squeaky bed with a loud headboard. I’m sure grandma was like DATS MY GRANDSON!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Thanks for everyones input/help/advice with my problem.

I will be taking a back seat on here for a while. I know what I need to do & now need to go action it as best I can.

I plan to give weekly updates on here so please watch the thread as your input has been so helpful & I will need more going forward! 

This will take some time to put right (if at all). So lets see what happens.....


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'll see how I feel in 3 weeks. Will judge it fully then as anything can happen in the next 21 days. I'll keep an open mind & go with it nearer the day.
> 
> Your 2 quotes have been stored & ready to use once I need them!


Are you still initiating regularly this month? I know it's hard to keep being rejected, but you need to give her the opportunity to either choose to meet your needs for sex, or have a solid history of refusing.

Then if things haven't changed and you turn the thermostat down, she will have NO question of why (no matter what she tries to say).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks for everyones input/help/advice with my problem.
> 
> I will be taking a back seat on here for a while. I know what I need to do & now need to go action it as best I can.
> 
> ...


GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Are you still initiating regularly this month? I know it's hard to keep being rejected, but you need to give her the opportunity to either choose to meet your needs for sex, or have a solid history of refusing.
> 
> Then if things haven't changed and you turn the thermostat down, she will have NO question of why (no matter what she tries to say).


I initiated again last night. She outrightly said she resents me for walking out on her after our big argument. I stated it was 18 months ago & to get over it now. She outrightly said because of that she is struggling to view me the same as before. She told me she loved me but is really struggling to get past it. I said that is fair enough but if you want our marriage to work you NEED to get past it.

My plan now is to focus on my life. I told her I am staying but I EXPECT this to change. In the meantime I'm pulling right back from her. Basically I'm bringing part B of my plan forward after last night. I've already got 2 nights out planned in the next couple of weeks. I'll be coming back from work an hour later each day. Pulling back from the cuddles etc.

I know me coming back late & being out more will get to her. So I'll be sitting back watching how it gets to her & we'll take it from there depending on what reaction I get from her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife is lying to you.
Flat out lying. If she WANTED sex with you, if she thought of you in a romantic way, she’d do like everyone else on the planet and work this stuff out so she’s not resentful and is able to have sex with you.

She’s stalling , stonewalling, and keeping you there for comfort/paycheck/home purposes. So you are very right to be going to cutting her off. However, telling her you’re gonna stay even though you’re being treated like trash, was exceptionally stupid. At least you could’ve let her wonder.

she knows you’re going nowhere. She’s got you wanting her for sex- likes the power over you, and she’s keeping the puppy on a leash.

you shouldn’t have told her you’re staying, and sadly, you only told the truth.

but good luck. You’re gonna need it.
I hate to see you hurting yourself.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I initiated again last night. She outrightly said she resents me for walking out on her after our big argument. I stated it was 18 months ago & to get over it now. She outrightly said because of that she is struggling to view me the same as before. She told me she loved me but is really struggling to get past it. I said that is fair enough but if you want our marriage to work you NEED to get past it.
> 
> My plan now is to focus on my life. I told her I am staying but I EXPECT this to change. In the meantime I'm pulling right back from her. Basically I'm bringing part B of my plan forward after last night. I've already got 2 nights out planned in the next couple of weeks. I'll be coming back from work an hour later each day. Pulling back from the cuddles etc.
> 
> I know me coming back late & being out more will get to her. So I'll be sitting back watching how it gets to her & we'll take it from there depending on what reaction I get from her.


She certainly doesn't resent you enough to avoid getting things she wants from you, like platonic cuddling and money and support.

Just go back and reread Farsidejunky's posts as you navigate this next phase, and you will soon be in the position you need to be in with the answers you need to have.

UGH...I hated going through what you are...I used to think, how hard can it be to have sex with me if you love me enough to be married to me??? I wasn't asking him to rototill the garden in the heat for 2 hours, I was asking for him to join me is giving us both pleasure!!!

STAY STRONG. You have every right to expect your marriage to include intimacy and physical love.

Your vow of monogamy does not translate to celibacy. She is breaking HER marriage vows.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is lying to you


I disagree. I think she is being honest. As much as I don't like it or it hurts I think she is being brutally honest.

Perhaps me saying I'm staying was wrong who knows. We will see. All I know is I know her well enough that me pulling back, going out & coming back late from work will get to her big time. Her reaction to all that will be interesting over the next month.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I disagree. I think she is being honest. As much as I don't like it or it hurts I think she is being brutally honest.
> 
> Perhaps me saying I'm staying was wrong who knows. We will see. All I know is I know her well enough that me pulling back, going out & coming back late from work will get to her big time. Her reaction to all that will be interesting over the next month.


I hope you’re right. I am worried for you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You need to be sure she knows you aren’t staying if she expects you to live without sex.

Stop telling her you’re staying when she acts this way. She has NO motivation to change!

People only change when they are uncomfortable - she is way too comfortable - and you reassuring her you aren’t going anywhere makes her think she needs to change nothing.

In this regard you are going at this backwards. Go back to her and be clear - you are going somewhere if she doesn’t change!

Keep posting. Moving to this next phase…you’re going to need support.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I disagree. I think she is being honest. As much as I don't like it or it hurts I think she is being brutally honest.
> 
> Perhaps me saying I'm staying was wrong who knows. We will see. All I know is I know her well enough that me pulling back, going out & coming back late from work will get to her big time. Her reaction to all that will be interesting over the next month.


We all read the account of the scene 1.5 years ago. Seems like you leaving for a bit was not unreasonable given HER BEHAVIOR during the scene. 

As LisaDiane said, _it sure hasn't stopped her from wanting platonic cuddles_ and all of the other benefits of marriage since then, has it?

She's using it as an excuse and you are, sadly, buying it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> She certainly doesn't resent you enough to avoid getting things she wants from you, like platonic cuddling and money and support.
> 
> Just go back and reread Farsidejunky's posts as you navigate this next phase, and you will soon be in the position you need to be in with the answers you need to have.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yes it's tough. It will sort itself out one way or another however it turns out. It's good to get it all out in the open finally at least. I'm interested to see what happens now as I start to withdraw, turn the tables & take the power back gradually.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Wife, I will not stay in a sexless marriage. I will not stay with a woman that purposefully holds resentment and won’t communicate and work things out with me. I will not cuddle when things aren’t right between us and feel the warmth of your body while feeling your cold heart as well. I will not continue serving a life sentence of celibacy over 3 days of trouble when I didn’t know what else to do since you don’t communicate.
If you don’t work with me to fix this marriage, I will work to end it.

That’s what I’d say. She’s not wanting sex with you or Romance from you and won’t tell you in order to keep you supplying her needs. It’s a cruel thing for your wife to do.

oh, and I’d have already seen an attorney


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> We all read the account of the scene 1.5 years ago. Seems like you leaving for a bit was not unreasonable given HER BEHAVIOR during the scene.
> 
> As LisaDiane said, _it sure hasn't stopped her from wanting platonic cuddles_ and all of the other benefits of marriage since then, has it?
> 
> She's using it as an excuse and you are, sadly, buying it.


An excuse for what though? I understand you saying she's using it as an excuse if she's saying she injured her back or something but she told me she resents me for what I did. I disagree with her & it's hurtful to hear but I don't think that's an excuse - that is getting right to the heart of the matter.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Well at least you have confirmation now of what is up. Your 18 months ago event put a dagger in it and now she needs to choose if she wants to still be pissed off without you or get past it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> An excuse for what though? I understand you saying she's using it as an excuse if she's saying she injured her back or something but she told me she resents me for what I did. I disagree with her & it's hurtful to hear but I don't think that's an excuse - that is getting right to the heart of the matter.


Did she provide any assistance in solving the resentment problem? Did she offer Amy kind of effort on her part to work with you to fix this? No. Well then…..,


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I initiated again last night. She outrightly said she resents me for walking out on her after our big argument. I stated it was 18 months ago & to get over it now. She outrightly said because of that she is struggling to view me the same as before. She told me she loved me but is really struggling to get past it. I said that is fair enough but if you want our marriage to work you NEED to get past it.
> 
> My plan now is to focus on my life. I told her I am staying but I EXPECT this to change. In the meantime I'm pulling right back from her. Basically I'm bringing part B of my plan forward after last night. I've already got 2 nights out planned in the next couple of weeks. I'll be coming back from work an hour later each day. Pulling back from the cuddles etc.
> 
> I know me coming back late & being out more will get to her. So I'll be sitting back watching how it gets to her & we'll take it from there depending on what reaction I get from her.


I do not think she was lying either. I think she was telling it like it is. 

I will repeat what I said some days back - going out with buddies, staying late at the gym, doing your own things etc etc are nothing more than parlor tricks and folk remedies you are trying to use to treat a cancer on your relationship. 

If you two want to remain together in a happy, healthy and intimate relationship,, you need professional evaluation and treatment. 

You pulling away and doing your own thing will not make her fall in love with you and be hot for your body. It will reaffirm her idea that you will abandon her and are only in it for sex. 

Her thoughts, ideas and feelings may be wrong..... but they are what is governing her nonetheless. That is why you need professional assistance, not internet red pill manipulation tactics.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> You need to be sure she knows you aren’t staying if she expects you to live without sex.
> 
> Stop telling her you’re staying when she acts this way. She has NO motivation to change!
> 
> ...


I hear you. It's all being noted in my head. I will keep posting. I know full well it will get a reaction from her my plan B & niggle away at her like it has been with me for sex. 

I've held back from plan B as I know the big affect it will have on her. Let's see. You'll enjoy my posts coming up put it that way!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> She certainly doesn't resent you enough to avoid getting things she wants from you, like platonic cuddling and money and support.


Read this above again and again. You are being used and exploited. 

Your fight 18 months ago may have cause her to lose sexual desire for you, but it certainly did not dampen her desire for your support and provisioning and domestic labor. 

And she has managed to tease you and dangle the carrot of sexuality in front of you enough to make you THINK you are going to have a sex life with her some day. 

You are being played. 

The problem is you are now playing games and manipulating as well with going out with buddies and more time at the gym etc. 

The reason I am calling that out as manipulation is you are doing it in hopes she will jump your bones. 

She is not going to jump your bones because she is disordered and you have fundamental dysfunctions in the foundations of your relationship and marriage. 

This is why you need professional intervention and therapy if you want want this to be a healthy and functionally intimate relationship. 

You are trying to treat lung cancer with a poultice.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’ve been resentful and angry with my ex wife.

know what helped? Sex
Makeup sex is a thing.

apparently Mrs OP didn’t get the memo. I think she is clearly dysfunctional.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I do not think she was lying either. I think she was telling it like it is.
> 
> I will repeat what I said some days back - going out with buddies, staying late at the gym, doing your own things etc etc are nothing more than parlor tricks and folk remedies you are trying to use to treat a cancer on your relationship.
> 
> ...


I understand you, I really do. It will come eventually the professional help. I need time to put things in place behind the scenes for me should we split anyway so at present I'm happy to use my plan B. 

That is the other connection I picked up on. 18 months ago I was out a lot more for various reasons & my wife had more interest in me. This past 18 months I've been in more with my wife. I'm not saying it's linked but it is a factual connection. Perhaps that safety net needs to be ripped away from her?..... which I'm in the process of doing.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You are wasting your time.

Analysis….. none needed.

She doesn’t want you sexually…… period.

End of story.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’ve been resentful and angry with my ex wife.
> 
> know what helped? Sex
> Makeup sex is a thing.
> ...


I think you are spot on. I do think she is dysfunctional. The problem for me is I love her & everything else in our marriage is good. So if I can sort this 1 big thing life is good again!

I thought it myself....sex would solve so much of this. She's looking at it like an enemy & to me it's not. It's the connection that will bring us closer.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> An excuse for what though? I understand you saying she's using it as an excuse if she's saying she injured her back or something but she told me she resents me for what I did. I disagree with her & it's hurtful to hear but I don't think that's an excuse - that is getting right to the heart of the matter.


She’s saying she is SO hurt - that she uses that as an excuse to never have sex with you again.

In her mind - she justifies turning off that tap.

That is one cruel woman. Any person not willing to talk through a big issue as this - for a resolution is just purposely trying to hold ONTO the resentment so they don’t have to have sex with you.

It’s done. She’s mean and I don’t see how you could possibly love someone that cruel.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She will probably be happier when you’re away more, don’t think she won’t. 

The safety net gets ripped away when she realizes she doesn’t have your money and attention. She is way too comfortable and doesn’t care that she is disrespecting you and the marriage. 

You keep telling her you aren’t leaving - stop telling her that! Tell her if she doesn’t have sex with you - you’re divorcing her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I think you are spot on. I do think she is dysfunctional. The problem for me is I love her & everything else in our marriage is good. So if I can sort this 1 big thing life is good again!
> 
> I thought it myself....sex would solve so much of this. She's looking at it like an enemy & to me it's not. It's the connection that will bring us closer.


Hating it for you sir. Hope you get it sorted.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I think you are spot on. I do think she is dysfunctional. *The problem for me is I love her & everything else in our marriage is good. So if I can sort this 1 big thing life is good again!*
> 
> I thought it myself....sex would solve so much of this. She's looking at it like an enemy & to me it's not. It's the connection that will bring us closer.


I am VERY VERY sorry to say this to you....the part I bolded has actually been said on this site by people in sexless marriages over and over and over again, literally dozens of times, and I think maybe 3 of them ever turned their situation around.

What you need to understand is that part of the reason you believe everything else in your marriage is "good", is because you have been meeting your wife's needs for 18 months without expecting (or getting) any of that in return.

She's been on a pedestal of YOUR making, so she has naturally been compliant and happy in other areas where she also has total control. 

To see the true state of your REAL marriage, just watch what happens when you stop treating her like the queen in your relationship and she realizes that SHE now has some responsibility for meeting your needs as an equal partner - you will notice that you have a VERY different and not-so-good marriage.

She is selfish and entitled...now maybe you can snap her out of it, and maybe you cannot. But what you are dealing with and going through is literally written about almost every other day on here...and very few selfish, entitled spouses ever willingly give up their "crowns".

In her mind, sex with her is your reward for when SHE decides you deserve it. It's not the enemy to her. It's a tool for her, to keep you in your place.

You are about to drag her, kicking and screaming, off the pedestal you put her on 18 months ago, and she may never forgive you for it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Read this above again and again. You are being used and exploited.
> 
> Your fight 18 months ago may have cause her to lose sexual desire for you, but it certainly did not dampen her desire for your support and provisioning and domestic labor.
> 
> ...





Beach123 said:


> She will probably be happier when you’re away more, don’t think she won’t.
> 
> The safety net gets ripped away when she realizes she doesn’t have your money and attention. She is way too comfortable and doesn’t care that she is disrespecting you and the marriage.
> 
> You keep telling her you aren’t leaving - stop telling her that! Tell her if she doesn’t have sex with you - you’re divorcing her.


She doesn't have my money. We have separate bank accounts. She pays her 50% so money is not an issue here.

I guarantee she will miss me when I'm out & about. She'll be texting me & getting concerned I'm cheating. I know how that side of things will play out. I'm not doing it to get back at her it's about getting things in place for my life going forward.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Does she work full time?

When you’re out and she texts you - don’t respond. That time is for you. She needs to feel uncomfortable!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Keep in mind that for YOU sex means connection, and a healer of many things, but that may not necessarily be true for her. Certainly her actions don’t indicate it is or she wouldn’t be holding an 18 month grudge over an argument and cutting sex off.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Sex for her is a power play. She is using it as a weapon to punish you.

That’s not love - not even close.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> . I'm not doing it to get back at her it's about getting things in place for my life going forward.


There you go … that is exactly the correct train of thought. 👍


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Does she work full time?
> 
> When you’re out and she texts you - don’t respond. That time is for you. She needs to feel uncomfortable!


Absolutely. When I'm out she won't be hearing from me which in turn will make her feel uncomfortàble. 

She lost her job last December due to covid hitting hard so is currently getting state benefits. When she had her job she always paid her half & is now even though her money is coming from elsewhere.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I think you are spot on. I do think she is dysfunctional. The problem for me is I love her & everything else in our marriage is good. So if I can sort this 1 big thing life is good again!


The reason things seem peaceful is because she has been manipulating and exploiting you and you have capitulated and allowed it to happen. You have been appeasing her and making things comfortable and content for her at your expense. 

You have kept her warm by setting yourself on fire. 

Things were peaceful when the Germans rolled into Paris as well. 

You may have a good roommate arrangement but if you consider intimacy as a necessary component of marriage, then your marriage is in very very bad shape.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks for everyones input/help/advice with my problem.
> 
> I will be taking a back seat on here for a while. I know what I need to do & now need to go action it as best I can.
> 
> ...


Good luck. Hope your plan works for you. Look forward to your updates.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I am VERY VERY sorry to say this to you....the part I bolded has actually been said on this site by people in sexless marriages over and over and over again, literally dozens of times, and I think maybe 3 of them ever turned their situation around.
> 
> What you need to understand is that part of the reason you believe everything else in your marriage is "good", is because you have been meeting your wife's needs for 18 months without expecting (or getting) any of that in return.
> 
> ...


This ^^^^^^^ 

As long as you are her work horse, provider and tell her how great she is without asking anything of her , she is good to go. 
Heck now that I think about it, you can come to my house and do housework and pay my bills and do anything I ask you to do. I'll even watch movies with you now and then but without the cuddling and I won't give you any sex either. But we can go hunting and fishing and ride motorcycles etc 

So what's the real difference between my offer and what you are living with now? Is she going fishing and riding bikes with you? Will she let you shoot her AR-15? 

I mean if sex isn't part of the package for either, isn't my offer better??? 

But getting back on topic, I agree with the above that her true colors are going to come out as you start scaling back your appeasements and capitulations. Hitler became very upset as Britain started fighting back and especially once they brought the US into it. We're gonna see the same thing soon with Putin. 

And as you start to see her for who and what she is, that "love" you claim to have for her is going to fade away too. You've been living on Hopium. As you break that Hopium addiction and start to see her for what she is, your esteem for her is going to fade.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Agreed. She should have nose bleeds. 

She’s going to need a parachute when she gets knocked of that pedestal.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Good luck. Hope your plan works for you. Look forward to your updates.


Thanks. The updates should be interesting at least in the next 3 weeks or so!


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I didn't read how long you've been married.

However, sex once every 9 months is not a marriage. You can't complain about a sexless marriage if you allow it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme 

Despite all the critique and criticism, I think it’s great you have formulated a plan and are taking steps towards instituting that plan. 

One thing that I think is important for you to understand here is that your wife with withdrawing from sex and you appeasing and accommodating her have been coping mechanisms for the both of you. 

What exactly you are both coping with, I don’t know exactly and that is why you need professional MC and therapy.

By you taking away the status quo, you are destabilizing her coping mechanism and basically eliminating your own coping mechanism if you stick to the plan. 

By taking away your coping mechanisms you are each going to have to face your realities. 

Those realities might be that you both love each other and want to be with each other and it will bring both of you to the negotiating table to work out the issues (which realistically could take years and will always be a process)

Another possibility may be that you actually don’t live and desire each other sexually but through your coping mechanisms, you have reached a point of being functional roommates.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

3 weeks? Aren’t you planning to make changes now?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Beach123 said:


> 3 weeks? Aren’t you planning to make changes now?


I think he means starting now and continuing for 3 weeks...?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Thanks. The updates should be interesting at least in the next 3 weeks or so!


And believe me, all the heavy emotional responses from all of us are helping to prepare you for what is coming, which is going to test your resolve and make you second guess yourself. So even if some of our comments are off the mark from where you think you are at, they are still GOOD for you to read and consider, so you can solidify your goals and your path to them, and your resolve in getting there!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me make this a little more concise. 

Your plan if instituted as described will not “fix” the problems. 

You are removing your coping mechanism from the status quo (which is a sexless marriage where she gets her needs met but you don’t)

And, it will undermine the effectiveness of her coping mechanism ( which is to avoid intimacy while still getting your acceptance, domestic labor and resources)

You plan won’t fix the problems or make her desire you.

But it will burn down the coping mechanisms that you two have developed to coexist in a domestic arrangement without intimacy.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She outrightly said she resents me for walking out on her after our big argument. I stated it was 18 months ago & to get over it now. She outrightly said because of that she is struggling to view me the same as before. She told me she loved me but is really struggling to get past it. I said that is fair enough but if you want our marriage to work you NEED to get past it.


It seems she's someone who can't get over arguments no matter what? A year and a half is more than enough time to move on. This is pointing to a mental health issue, OCD maybe?

Does she expect to have a marriage without arguments? Does she expect to have a passive aggressive relationship? What the heck does she want? 

I wonder if her issues with her parents are really as bad as she has painted them to be. Have you ever talked to her parents and got their side of the story?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Is this woman of Russian lineage?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> An excuse for what though? I understand you saying she's using it as an excuse if she's saying she injured her back or something but she told me she resents me for what I did. I disagree with her & it's hurtful to hear but I don't think that's an excuse - that is getting right to the heart of the matter.


It's an excuse FOR NOT HAVING SEX WITH YOU that she thinks you will buy by trying to make you feel like it's your fault and a valid excuse. Neither are true and it speaks to your codependency that you can't see it and that you've fallen for it.

Because.... if she straight up admits she's not into sex with you anymore she knows the gravy train ends. 

She's completely emotionally and mentally manipulated you


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> It's an excuse FOR NOT HAVING SEX WITH YOU that she thinks you will buy by trying to make you feel like it's your fault and a valid excuse. Neither are true and it speaks to your codependency that you can't see it and that you've fallen for it.
> 
> Because.... if she straight up admits she's not into sex with you anymore she knows the gravy train ends.
> 
> She's completely emotionally and mentally manipulated you


Yep


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The old “I’m not screwing you and it’s your fault” routine. It would be funny if it wasn’t so hurtful…


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I initiated again last night. She outrightly said she resents me for walking out on her after our big argument. I stated it was 18 months ago & to get over it now. She outrightly said because of that she is struggling to view me the same as before. She told me she loved me but is really struggling to get past it. I said that is fair enough but if you want our marriage to work you NEED to get past it.
> 
> My plan now is to focus on my life. I told her I am staying but I EXPECT this to change. In the meantime I'm pulling right back from her. Basically I'm bringing part B of my plan forward after last night. I've already got 2 nights out planned in the next couple of weeks. I'll be coming back from work an hour later each day. Pulling back from the cuddles etc.
> 
> I know me coming back late & being out more will get to her. So I'll be sitting back watching how it gets to her & we'll take it from there depending on what reaction I get from her.


Thermostat already, eh? She is getting to you. Some part of her probably has a small smile over being able to impact you that way. 

Next statement to memorize:

"You can keep your resentment, or you can keep the marriage, but not both."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I expect that day one of the thermostat/plan B/whatever name you want to use she is going to lose her ****. 

Be ready. 

Her: "Why didn't you answer my calls/go out again this week/blah blah?"

You, very calmly: "I didn't want to. I'm managing my resentment from the last 18 months."

Then go do something you want to do.







Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

As this is ongoing, you must absolutely remain calm and solid. Think 'Spock'; direct, matter-of-fact, without emotion.

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The more you “react to what she says” ….. the more she knows she has power over you. Moving forward you are doing for you …. Reacting is finished.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> As this is ongoing, you must absolutely remain calm and solid.


Did you ever do that MMA thing ??


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> It seems she's someone who can't get over arguments no matter what? A year and a half is more than enough time to move on. This is pointing to a mental health issue, OCD maybe?
> 
> Does she expect to have a marriage without arguments? Does she expect to have a passive aggressive relationship? What the heck does she want?
> 
> I wonder if her issues with her parents are really as bad as she has painted them to be. Have you ever talked to her parents and got their side of the story?


You've hit the nail on the head - she takes so long to get over arguments. Maybe what happened with her parents wasn't as bad as she made out & the majority is in her head that she has built up. No I've never spoken to her parents as when I met her she had already parted ways with them. I will never know what really went on. Wish I did as I think it has such an impact on today but that is out the equation so no point me focusing on it. I did a lot of research on mental health & narrowed it down to Borderline Personality Disorder. I read up on all of them & nothing rang true then I stumbled upon BPD & BOOM - That is her. Someone this post early on disagreed from what I have said that she does have BPD. He isn't an expert & I'm certainly not but so many of the traits of BPD my wife has.

It's another one of her traits - holding on to arguments 100 times longer than anyone else I know. It's not just me it's anyone. It is her, not the people around her. I've said it to her numerous times before & I have certainly said it regarding me walking out and the big argument. Not sure if anyone can link that to some form of mental illness that I haven't? Is not letting go of arguments & the past linked to anything specific?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Thermostat already, eh? She is getting to you. Some part of her probably has a small smile over being able to impact you that way.
> 
> Next statement to memorize:
> 
> ...


Yes change of plan already! It is clear to me that my original plan is/won't get me anywhere based off our chat this weekend. It's wasting another 2 weeks. I need to switch this round quickly to get the power back to me. I'm well aware she has the power at present & I'm well aware she is probably half smirking inside thinking this is payback for walking out on her. I maybe wrong but it's a strong possibility. So my way of levelling up the power is to go out, stop with the cuddling, come home later each night etc. I'll ignore her texts when I'm out & on a normal work day will take a lifetime to respond with a very short response. It will get a reaction out of her alright & you are right as you put it "she will lose her sh*t". I'm prepared for it. I can read that side of her like a book.

I will make it clear this is not for game playing. It is a long term plan to take my power back to get us to the next stage hopefully. She has had it too easy over the past 18 months & again I'm well aware I'm to blame for that. Plan B starts today.....


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> The more you “react to what she says” ….. the more she knows she has power over you. Moving forward you are doing for you …. Reacting is finished.


I fully get that. She will be getting a reaction out of me but it will be the complete opposite of what she has had over the past 18 months & especially the past 2 weeks where I'm upped my attention level on her. I understand that I have been reacting to her which leads her to have the power. She is not daft, she will know that too.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Be prepared. If she is indeed BPD she won’t care at all about your feelings - she’s only capable of thinking about herself.

What makes you love someone that much when they don’t consider your feelings within the marriage? Or are you just used to that style of someone “loving” you?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Be prepared. If she is indeed BPD she won’t care at all about your feelings - she’s only capable of thinking about herself.
> 
> What makes you love someone that much when they don’t consider your feelings within the marriage? Or are you just used to that style of someone “loving” you?


Maybe as I've got nothing to compare it to? I've had relationships in the past but nothing serious. I met my wife & we hit it off. Fell in love & all was well. Over time she has changed but nothing drastically until the past 18 months. She hasn't changed in any way other than the sex side of things.

She flies off the handle initially. Only after the event does it hit her & the anxiety kicks in about what damage she has done. Maybe I'm too forgiving. Each to their own. She does have a lovely loving kind side to her. She isn't with me for money. She isn't a cheater regardless of what some think on here. Cheating is NOT what this is about. Unfortunately she has this other side to her which at present she is not willing to face or is oblivious too. My guess is she is well aware something is off & is terrified of all the stuff that may come out should she talk to someone. Wouldn't surprise me if she had a breakdown off the back of it.

I've known someone who has been through this before. In the end the family had their wife/mum sectioned & she was in a mental health unit for 6 months. I'm not saying my wife is that bad because she isn't. I'm just saying that lady is now a friend of mine. She was sectioned 20 years ago now and she has come out the other side & is a lovely chilled out lady. But she said you need to be prepared to hit rock bottom, for the counsellors to break you in order to rebuild you back up better & stronger. 

I know people will instantly say well if she loves you she will do it but I don't think it's as simple as that. It's a phobia almost I would think. Again this is me talking & not for 1 second am I saying I'm right but I get the feeling it's like if you are scared of heights. At present me mentioning a counsellor is like someone being forced to climb the Eiffel Tower when they're petrified of heights. Me forcing her will not work in my opinion. If it comes to it I will obviously do it but it's a last resort when all else has failed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She sounds like a complex case. Fear of getting pregnant, mental issues (for sure), not in touch with her family anymore, finds impossible to forgive, on anti-depressants. And after the big fight, she still loves you and wants to be with you, but as a "friend"... nothing makes sense.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Mr.Married said:


> Did you ever do that MMA thing ??


Yep. I worked the guy over for nearly the entire first round, then he caught me with 10 seconds left in the first. TKO.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes change of plan already! It is clear to me that my original plan is/won't get me anywhere based off our chat this weekend. It's wasting another 2 weeks. I need to switch this round quickly to get the power back to me. I'm well aware she has the power at present & I'm well aware she is probably half smirking inside thinking this is payback for walking out on her. I maybe wrong but it's a strong possibility. So my way of levelling up the power is to go out, stop with the cuddling, come home later each night etc. I'll ignore her texts when I'm out & on a normal work day will take a lifetime to respond with a very short response. It will get a reaction out of her alright & you are right as you put it "she will lose her sh*t". I'm prepared for it. I can read that side of her like a book.
> 
> I will make it clear this is not for game playing. It is a long term plan to take my power back to get us to the next stage hopefully. She has had it too easy over the past 18 months & again I'm well aware I'm to blame for that. Plan B starts today.....


Don't make anything "clear" except your boundaries. She KNOWS the score. 

Anything more than boundary statements is an opportunity to get you to soften your line. 

Anything less than actions to show she is interested in keeping the marriage is ignored. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Maybe as I've got nothing to compare it to? I've had relationships in the past but nothing serious. I met my wife & we hit it off. Fell in love & all was well. Over time she has changed but nothing drastically until the past 18 months. She hasn't changed in any way other than the sex side of things.
> 
> She flies off the handle initially. Only after the event does it hit her & the anxiety kicks in about what damage she has done. Maybe I'm too forgiving. Each to their own. She does have a lovely loving kind side to her. She isn't with me for money. She isn't a cheater regardless of what some think on here. Cheating is NOT what this is about. Unfortunately she has this other side to her which at present she is not willing to face or is oblivious too. My guess is she is well aware something is off & is terrified of all the stuff that may come out should she talk to someone. Wouldn't surprise me if she had a breakdown off the back of it.
> 
> ...


You would have known it far earlier if she was BPD. Nursing resentment, anxiety, and a hair trigger temper are all signs of someone with psych issues, but not necessarily BPD. Furthermore, the whole line of thinking with BPD is a distraction at this point. 

Why?

It's NOT YOUR PROBLEM. 

Your boundaries are your problem. What she intends to do about your boundaries, her 'BPD' (in quotes because I simply don't see it), her anxiety, her health, your leaving for 3 days 18 months ago...all are up to her to fix.

She either will...or she won't. 



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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Don't make anything "clear" except your boundaries. She KNOWS the score.
> 
> Anything more than boundary statements is an opportunity to get you to soften your line.
> 
> ...


You are like a Sexless Reversing Master!!!! You need a podcast or something!!!

I'm not teasing, I mean it!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Don't make anything "clear" except your boundaries. She KNOWS the score.
> 
> Anything more than boundary statements is an opportunity to get you to soften your line.
> 
> ...


Yes I've got it. I didn't mean I will make it clear to her I mean I'm making it clear to people on here that this is not game playing. Some have suggested not to do that & I'm not. This is about me & me turning this round - not her & certainly not playing childish games to get back at her.

The BPD thing isn't a major things to me at present I was just responding to someone who mentioned that it sounds like she has mental illness issues. It got me onto my thoughts about BPD but that is not in the forefront of my mind. Getting my sex life back with my wife is the sole purpose of all this.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> An excuse for what though? I understand you saying she's using it as an excuse if she's saying she injured her back or something but she told me she resents me for what I did. I disagree with her & it's hurtful to hear but I don't think that's an excuse - that is getting right to the heart of the matter.


An excuse for why you’re not having sex.

It is a lie. There is another reason.

Example: Wife stopped having sexual with her husband because she got an STD from her boss she had an affair with. This is a true story from another thread.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I’m not saying your wife is cheating. It’s just a possibility, it could be anything.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your wife said she's been nursing resentment against you and believes that's the problem. Is she punishing you? Does she think that her resentment is a good reason for cutting off the sexual relationship? She is behaving very badly and damaging your relationship by withholding her affection from you, because she can't seem to get over your response to her behavior towards you, when you had to leave the house, because she couldn't control herself or calm down. Apparently, she is still justifying her bad behavior from that day by continuing to hold it against you that you left to defuse the situation. Have you told her flat out that you do not accept that and that she is destroying your marriage?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Here are a couple more sayings that you will likely need. Notice these statements still hold the line on boundaries, while simultaneously getting your point across.

When she accuses you of not loving her and/or you just want a divorce:

"If we do divorce, I won't be leaving because I don't love you. I will be leaving because you don't love me."

When she tries to give you duty or starfish sex:

"Sex is something you do with your partner, not to them."

If she threatens to divorce you:

"Then I will miss you, and I may not find somebody I love as much as you, but I will settle for somebody who chooses love over resentment."



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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Here are a couple more sayings that you will likely need. Notice these statements still hold the line on boundaries, while simultaneously getting your point across.
> 
> When she accuses you of not loving her and/or you just want a divorce:
> 
> ...


Can we get a time frame on when that giving duty sex is gonna happen?😋


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Can we get a time frame on when that giving duty sex is gonna happen?


My ESP is broken. 

On that, part of the reason I am loading him up with these sayings on the front side is because I think sex is going to be off the table completely, at least for another month or two. 

I didn't really think this was a power struggle at first, but more and more it appears that is what is happening. 



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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Your wife said she's been nursing resentment against you and believes that's the problem. Is she punishing you? Does she think that her resentment is a good reason for cutting off the sexual relationship? She is behaving very badly and damaging your relationship by withholding her affection from you, because she can't seem to get over your response to her behavior towards you, when you had to leave the house, because she couldn't control herself or calm down. Apparently, she is still justifying her bad behavior from that day by continuing to hold it against you that you left to defuse the situation. Have you told her flat out that you do not accept that and that she is destroying your marriage?


The thought had gone through my head that it's payback & I partly believe it is but not the main reason. I do believe I severely hurt her by leaving for those 3 days. That's the problem - in her head it is all my fault, she can't seem to grasp her half of the blame (I'm being kind by saying half of the blame by the way). She said I shouldn't have left & just gone for a walk and in hindsight maybe that would have been best but like I said to her "you told me to go", "you said you didn't want me there" & from my own side of things space between us was the best thing at that moment in time in the heat of the argument. If I was thinking clearer maybe I wouldn't have gone but as I said to her "I cannot turn back time, you are holding something against me which I physically cannot change". Me staying after that toxic argument was just stupid to me. Maybe in her childhood that was normal to live a toxic environment like that but it certainly wasn't mine. Sitting in separate rooms for the rest of the day in a tiny flat not talking which is what would have happened if she had her way is not my idea of sorting an argument. In my head space for a few days was a better idea rightly or wrongly. So yes I do think she has half enjoyed not giving me sex but I don't believe it to be the driving force behind all this.

As I've said before I believe my wife to be childish in these arguments, shouting, name calling etc so I'm not surprised she isn't taking much of the blame. Whether deep down she knows she is a big part of it or her mind is completely elsewhere and she firmly believes it was 90% my fault. She is either viewing the argument completely differently to me or she is CHOOSING to view it completely different to me as it's easier to blame me.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Here are a couple more sayings that you will likely need. Notice these statements still hold the line on boundaries, while simultaneously getting your point across.
> 
> When she accuses you of not loving her and/or you just want a divorce:
> 
> ...


Love the last quote about settling for someone who chooses love over resentment. That will be used. I agree sex won't be happening anytime soon. 

She did say last night she hasn't even been kissing me as she knows I want sex & it feels to her like she is teasing me. If she kisses me & then pulls back she feels like a c*ck tease as she said. I told her I understand that but it won't be a tease - it is showing me we are on the right track & you still want me if we can get past this argument. I told her not to hold back from kissing going forward anymore for that reason. We will wait to see what happens.....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Love the last quote about settling for someone who chooses love over resentment. That will be used. I agree sex won't be happening anytime soon.
> 
> She did say last night she hasn't even been kissing me as she knows I want sex & it feels to her like she is teasing me. If she kisses me & then pulls back she feels like a c*ck tease as she said. I told her I understand that but it won't be a tease - it is showing me we are on the right track & you still want me if we can get past this argument. I told her not to hold back from kissing going forward anymore for that reason. We will wait to see what happens.....


What I don't get is this: if she resents you for walking out, why does she claim to love you and wants to be near you, cuddling etc, but no sex? If she resents you badly, then she wouldn't want to be with you at all. Is she punishing you using sex as a weapon? There is something really wrong there because nothing makes sense...


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> What I don't get is this: if she resents you for walking out, why does she claim to love you and wants to be near you, cuddling etc, but no sex? If she resents you badly, then she wouldn't want to be with you at all. Is she punishing you using sex as a weapon? There is something really wrong there because nothing makes sense...


I know I'm trying to figure it out too. She's a complex case. She digs her own grave. Based off what she told me at the weekend and adding my plan B into the mix (me going distant over the past 48 hours) I'm already getting the comment of "have you met someone else?". It's like she knows her holding back from sex is pushing me away but she doesn't want to lose me at the same time. I really don't know. It could be she is simply holding back as punishment, maybe I have got it wrong. I don't think it is but I'm certainly not ruling out this whole thing has been about payback.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know I'm trying to figure it out too. She's a complex case. She digs her own grave. Based off what she told me at the weekend and adding my plan B into the mix (me going distant over the past 48 hours) I'm already getting the comment of "have you met someone else?". It's like she knows her holding back from sex is pushing me away but she doesn't want to lose me at the same time. I really don't know. It could be she is simply holding back as punishment, maybe I have got it wrong. I don't think it is but I'm certainly not ruling out this whole thing has been about payback.


My wife has mental issues, so I do understand. Unfortunately, my marriage didn't end up well, because she refused to deal with her issues. And I made things worse by being too harsh with her. Despite what the others here say, be careful and try and understand because something is occupying her brain and that's her main concern. Don't be too harsh or heavy handed. Of course, the optimal thing would be for her to see a therapist. Maybe even couple counselling to understand the dynamics better.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> My wife has mental issues, so I do understand. Unfortunately, my marriage didn't end up well, because she refused to deal with her issues. And I made things worse by being too harsh with her. Despite what the others here say, be careful and try and understand because something is occupying her brain and that's her main concern. Don't be too harsh or heavy handed. Of course, the optimal thing would be for her to see a therapist. Maybe even couple counselling to understand the dynamics better.


Yes I agree the soft approach is better in my situation & with people like this in general. One of my comments yesterday on here was along the lines of relate it to forcing someone who is afraid of heights to climb the Eiffel Tower. You will be met with a reaction of panic & wanting to run away. I need to find the happy medium here. She knows I am not happy, I am withdrawing from the things I have been giving her that have been keeping her content, I have already got a reaction from her with her comment so lets see how this week pans out. Me telling her outright "do as I want or I am leaving" won't work with her & in our situation. She will got into panic mode & nothing will be resolved. I need to change things which I am but it can't be so black & white as have sex or else if I want this to work out.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know I'm trying to figure it out too. She's a complex case. She digs her own grave. Based off what she told me at the weekend and adding my plan B into the mix (me going distant over the past 48 hours) I'm already getting the comment of "have you met someone else?". It's like she knows her holding back from sex is pushing me away but she doesn't want to lose me at the same time. I really don't know. It could be she is simply holding back as punishment, maybe I have got it wrong. I don't think it is but I'm certainly not ruling out this whole thing has been about payback.


Ok so do you know your wife to be a punisher generally? Throughout your marriage, have their been incidents, even small, where you’ve called her out on something and there’s been a punishment of some sort?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Ok so do you know your wife to be a punisher generally? Throughout your marriage, have their been incidents, even small, where you’ve called her out on something and there’s been a punishment of some sort?


No not that I've picked up on. Even with this I'm not getting the vibe it's punishment it's just something I'm not writing off. But no I've never picked up she gets off on 'punishing me' for doing something/not doing something/not getting her own way etc.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Love the last quote about settling for someone who chooses love over resentment. That will be used. I agree sex won't be happening anytime soon.
> 
> She did say last night she hasn't even been kissing me as she knows I want sex & it feels to her like she is teasing me. If she kisses me & then pulls back she feels like a c*ck tease as she said. I told her I understand that but it won't be a tease - it is showing me we are on the right track & you still want me if we can get past this argument. I told her not to hold back from kissing going forward anymore for that reason. We will wait to see what happens.....


This seems off the wall to me. 

A year and a half and she won't have sex with you, she's saying (oh but she'll cuddle with you), because of that past argument? That's like crazy town. How LONG did she expect to go without a regular sex life in her marriage? What does she think would make her move past the argument? WHAT HAS SHE DONE in the past year and a half to work on the issue????????????

Either she is extremely extremely extremely personality dysfunctional and it would be in your best interest to just call it quits on this dysfunctional marriage, or she truly has zero sexual interest in you and is using the argument as a fake excuse. Either one sucks really bad because they are the actions of someone who is not capable of providing a happy, healthy, mutual relationship to you.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Drop the bomb and GTFO.

Waste of time


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Either she is extremely extremely extremely personality dysfunctional and it would be in your best interest to just call it quits on this dysfunctional marriage, or she truly has zero sexual interest in you and is using the argument as a fake excuse. Either one sucks really bad because they are the actions of someone who is not capable of providing a happy, healthy, mutual relationship to you.


To me, she has mental issues and she doesn't even "get" it... or, she does get it, but she is unable to deal with her issues to solve the problem. Of course, she could be just deceiving him, but what's the point of it? With no sex or intimate relationship, he would go eventually.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

This is just me, but why in the world would you want to cuddle with her when she won't have sex with you? And for 18 months??

Will be interesting if you follow through on not meeting her needs (especially when she starts to complain). She's going to ask what's going on at some point and once she hears what you have to say, based upon the past 18 months, and for a woman who's mindset has been to punish you by withholding sex in my humble opinion you're going to have a stand off. 

She also knows that she's been in control for quite awhile and sadly you've allowed this. The question is will you truly stand up for yourself and your needs and be willing to walk away or will you keep making excuses for her and put up with her bull$h!t?


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No not that I've picked up on. Even with this I'm not getting the vibe it's punishment it's just something I'm not writing off. But no I've never picked up she gets off on 'punishing me' for doing something/not doing something/not getting her own way etc.


OK, again read what I say below with the understanding that I agree she has major issues - the crazy long emotional arguments, the hanging on to past wrongs, the self involved head space. 

Given all ^^ that:

Your part in this problem -- your bluntness and lack of understanding or willingness to fix the problem WITH her - keeps getting actively dismissed on this thread.

18 months ago you literally told her she has "mental problems", to her face. That is harsh and painful for anyone to hear. You may as well have said she doesn't belong in your bed, she belongs in a nuthouse. You justify that by saying it's just how you communicate. You're actually proud of what is in your mind, your clarity. 

You abandoned her for 3 days from her perspective. 
In HER (already overly emotional) mind, she can no longer trust you. It doesn't take much regained trust to hold hands, but all the women I've known require a LOT of trust to have sex. And kissing leads to sex. 

You didn't clue into that 18 months ago. You didn't try to help her resolve her pain and loss of trust. More emotional abandonment from her perspective. 

When you did finally ask her what was going on in her head - - 18 months later - -, and she dared to reveal it, you told her to "get over it". In other words, you glossed over the pain she's been carrying and told her her feelings were invalid, and you don't really care about them. You just need her to start having sex with you. 

Your part of this is you've had an incredibly blunt and insensitive way of dealing with this problem of hers, combined with a lack of communication and unwillingness to take charge, sit her down calmly, with empathy for her screwed up feelings, and sort it out using language that does not convey dismissivness and amplify the problem. 

If her head is totally screwed up emotionally about what happened, she's suffering. Your approach has been self involved throughout this as well. And she likely can't see that ever changing in you. She can't be vulnerable around you again. 

So instead of understanding, you have a standoff. 

You both need to get your heads out of your a***s and communicate with more kindness and empathy, much sooner than you two currently do. 

Again, not saying she's not messed up.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> To me, she has mental issues and she doesn't even "get" it... or, she does get it, but she is unable to deal with her issues to solve the problem. Of course, she could be just deceiving him, but what's the point of it? With no sex or intimate relationship, he would go eventually.


I agree. The more people hear about this I think the more are seeing this is not about cheating which I stated early on to numerous people. This is more to do with the mental side of things & past arguments not being moved on from by her. Add into the mix her childhood issues & it brings us to today.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> OK, again read what I say below with the understanding that I agree she has major issues - the crazy long emotional arguments, the hanging on to past wrongs, the self involved head space.
> 
> Given all ^^ that:
> 
> ...


I have tried to talk to her about the argument. I've listened to her. We've had some big clear the air talks & I assumed things would change. They didn't. I apologised for leaving & holding my hand up to my side of the argument. I am not met half way with her. I know I hurt her but I was reacting to HER behaviour NOT the other way round. 

I am determined to turn this round somehow. I won't be backing off from the issue at hand but I will be getting on with my side of life more in the meantime.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you considered your wife is at heart a hateful person? You may be able to get her to get over this peccadillo; but, is this the type of person you want to be married to for the next 40 years? Think long and hard because these people make for miserable marriages. 

How long before the next round of hate and manipulation commences? Enjoy walking on those egg shells.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Jeeze what a mess.
I guess this will blow up soon if she's so quickly reacting to PlanB.

I'm still on the "there's someone else" train and it started 19-20mo ago.
/rabbit_trail


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know I'm trying to figure it out too. She's a complex case. She digs her own grave. Based off what she told me at the weekend and adding my plan B into the mix (me going distant over the past 48 hours) I'm already getting the comment of "have you met someone else?". It's like she knows her holding back from sex is pushing me away but she doesn't want to lose me at the same time. I really don't know. It could be she is simply holding back as punishment, maybe I have got it wrong. I don't think it is but I'm certainly not ruling out this whole thing has been about payback.


WOW!!! You start holding back and 48 hours later she begins to question your fidelity…. 18 months on and you actively defend her‘s.

One would have to ask a few question….
Why would her mind go so quickly to question your fidelity? What makes her associate a slight pull back to infidelity? Is it personal experience? Lastly, how does she think you feel after 18 months of actively neglecting the intimate part of your married relationship?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

seadoug105 said:


> WOW!!! You start holding back and 48 hours later she begins to question your fidelity…. 18 months on and you actively defend her‘s.
> 
> One would have to ask a few question….
> Why would her mind go so quickly to question your fidelity? What makes her associate a slight pull back to infidelity? Is it personal experience? Lastly, how does she think you feel after 18 months of actively neglecting the intimate part of your married relationship?


I think maybe I can answer.

Because, as an adult with functioning intelligence, she knows she has been providing a really crap marriage to her husband and knows he could, and may, find a better partner, if he wanted to in the future.

Has nothing to do with him being infidelitous and it's all about her knowing she had been a crap partner. She's been betting all this time he didn't have the balls to leave the relationship, though. But it's a background knowledge that he could find a better partner.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know I'm trying to figure it out too. She's a complex case. She digs her own grave. Based off what she told me at the weekend and adding my plan B into the mix (me going distant over the past 48 hours) I'm already getting the comment of "have you met someone else?". It's like she knows her holding back from sex is pushing me away but she doesn't want to lose me at the same time. I really don't know. It could be she is simply holding back as punishment, maybe I have got it wrong. I don't think it is but I'm certainly not ruling out this whole thing has been about payback.


No she’s not a complex case. You said “she’s not giving me sex”……
Who wants a wife that “gives then sex”????
You should want one that wants you as badly as you do her. It’s sharing sex with one another.
The more you post about her, the more I don’t see how anyone could possibly have a good marriage to her.
She is knowingly and purposefully emotionally abusing you. 
I think you can do whatever you want, but you’re not going to be able to turn lye soap into a cupcake. 
Your wife sounds like a dang nightmare to live with.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I think maybe I can answer.
> 
> Because, as an adult with functioning intelligence, she knows she has been providing a really crap marriage to her husband and knows he could, and may, find a better partner, if he wanted to in the future.
> 
> Has nothing to do with him being infidelitous and it's all about her knowing she had been a crap partner. She's been betting all this time he didn't have the balls to leave the relationship, though. But it's a background knowledge that he could find a better partner.


QFT.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> No she’s not a complex case. You said “she’s not giving me sex”……
> Who wants a wife that “gives then sex”????
> You should want one that wants you as badly as you do her. It’s sharing sex with one another.
> The more you post about her, the more I don’t see how anyone could possibly have a good marriage to her.
> ...


His wife is complex.

The situation is simple.

This is why I keep stressing that analysis of his wife is largely an exercise in futility. 

Stop thinking about how to fix her.

Start providing the environment, via the carrot or the stick, for her to want to fix herself. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Quad73 said:


> OK, again read what I say below with the understanding that I agree she has major issues - the crazy long emotional arguments, the hanging on to past wrongs, the self involved head space.
> 
> Given all ^^ that:
> 
> ...


This is a very good post, and likely does a good job of pointing out the wife's POV. 

That said, 18 months of getting her pound of flesh should be far outside the bell curve of the OP's tolerance level. 

"You can keep the marriage, or you can keep the resentment, but not both. Your resentment won't cuddle or comfort you if our marriage ends."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Have you considered your wife is at heart a hateful person? You may be able to get her to get over this peccadillo; but, is this the type of person you want to be married to for the next 40 years? Think long and hard because these people make for miserable marriages.
> 
> How long before the next round of hate and manipulation commences? Enjoy walking on those egg shells.


I don’t know. Is it really true she is a hateful person? I know what you are getting at but imagine how hard it must be to have sex with someone that isn’t attractive to you in that way. You would come up with anything you could to avoid and manipulate it’s happening. Her ability to hang him by a string for resource provision only may mean she is just a good survivor in her “stuck with ugly” situation ???

Regardless of the above my advice is still the same …..

GTFO !!!!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

The OP's mistake has been leaving it too long... now it's too late to fix it, IMO.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

I can certainly appreciate her being hurt, upset, and some trust being broken. 

That said, OP says he's apologized numerous times, and has tried to clear the air. You know what adults do....communicate. 

This is her husband for crying out loud. How long is she NOT going to forgive him?? How long is she going to continue punishing him like a little child? A few months? Ok understood. EIGHTEEN months???

Then for her to treat him like a toddler, "here you've been a good little boy, come over here so mommy can cuddle with you"??

What's she's doing to him is vindictive and spiteful and in my humble opinion she's not mature enough to be in a grown-up relationship. 

That OP has tolerated this nonsense for eighteen months has only empowered her and from my experience people who wield power will do whatever they can to keep it.

I also agree with her immediately calling him out on possibly cheating on her is a red flag. 

How committed will OP be once he starts not taking care of her needs and not doing what she expects him to do? This woman is vindictive and he better get ready for her to turn into a scorned tornado because how dare he treat her this way.

OP, seriously, what do you get out of this relationship? Not what you want but what you get?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Quad73 said:


> OK, again read what I say below with the understanding that I agree she has major issues - the crazy long emotional arguments, the hanging on to past wrongs, the self involved head space.
> 
> Given all ^^ that:
> 
> ...



She told him to leave, to get out. He thought it best to do so at the time to let things calm down. You have no clue what was going on in the argument and you assume that OP is doing things that never happened. Maybe you should pull your head out of it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I think maybe I can answer.
> 
> Because, as an adult with functioning intelligence, she knows she has been providing a really crap marriage to her husband and knows he could, and may, find a better partner, if he wanted to in the future.
> 
> Has nothing to do with him being infidelitous and it's all about her knowing she had been a crap partner. She's been betting all this time he didn't have the balls to leave the relationship, though. But it's a background knowledge that he could find a better partner.



If she was acting like a intelligent functioning adult then this wouldn’t be happening. She is acting like a spoiled child the doesn’t give a crap about her husband. Like OP said, arguing with her is like arguing with a child


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

sideways said:


> I can certainly appreciate her being hurt, upset, and some trust being broken.
> 
> That said, OP says he's apologized numerous times, and has tried to clear the air. You know what adults do....communicate.
> 
> ...


The cheating comment is her insecurity kicking in. It's not unsual but I knew it would be coming. If she's had sex with me twice in 18 months I'd be insecure too. Me going out more will get a reaction too. 

I do get good things out the relationship still, enough to make me happy. BUT should the sex not return then I am off as there is not enough there to keep me without it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The cheating comment is her insecurity kicking in. It's not unsual but I knew it would be coming. If she's had sex with me twice in 18 months I'd be insecure too. Me going out more will get a reaction too.
> 
> I do get good things out the relationship still, enough to make me happy. BUT should the sex not return then I am off as there is not enough there to keep me without it.


What good things?


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## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The cheating comment is her insecurity kicking in. It's not unsual but I knew it would be coming. If she's had sex with me twice in 18 months I'd be insecure too. Me going out more will get a reaction too.
> 
> I do get good things out the relationship still, enough to make me happy. BUT should the sex not return then I am off as there is not enough there to keep me without it.


What happens if at 5 months from now when she knows you are on your way out the door, you get one occasion of lackluster duty sex? Does the six month clock reset? Is sex every six months going to keep you captive?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Wife5362 said:


> What happens if at 5 months from now when she knows you are on your way out the door, you get one occasion of lackluster duty sex? Does the six month clock reset? Is sex every six months going to keep you captive?


These are very important questions to consider now, so one does not have to agonize over it later.

If it were me, one instance of duty sex at the 11th hour would be too little, too late.

One instance is not a pattern.

When I went through this with my wife, I kept the thermostat low for a sustained period of time because it was now up to her not just to meet me in the middle (which she had avoided as she suckled her resentment), but to carry the relationship for a period of time. 

Just like the CPR analogy, I was done with compressions. It was then up to her to continue to do them, or the marriage would die. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The cheating comment is her insecurity kicking in. It's not unsual but I knew it would be coming. If she's had sex with me twice in 18 months I'd be insecure too. Me going out more will get a reaction too.
> 
> I do get good things out the relationship still, enough to make me happy. BUT should the sex not return then I am off as there is not enough there to keep me without it.


It seems like the possibility of past infidelity is too quickly ruled out by you. That she quickly goes to you being unfaithful, when you dial back your attention is actually a possible red flag. It is very common for a wayward to project their behavior onto others.

The discussion you had this past weekend about her still feeling hurt from the argument 18 months ago, could easy be a diversion to keep you on the defense. If that is actually the problem, then she’s admitting to using sex as a weapon to indefinitely punish you. Is that really who she is? Was she that vindictive with prior arguments or disagreements?

I see it as one more of her excuses makers. I’m still and agree. I’m afraid of getting pregnant, even though you had over 6 years of no such fears. Now she’s super concerned about her kid being able to hear but that wasn’t a problem for all the years prior? These all sound like reasons to avoid intimacy because she’s detached from you.

Now was the detachment an argument or did I she give herself to another? It would have been during the 6 months that your parents stayed with you. Which leads me to another question, was the dry spell between the two of you really 18 months or was it longer and you chalked any lack of sex prior to your parents being in your house?


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

cromer.. Cromer…. CROMER!!!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

seadoug105 said:


> cromer.. Cromer…. CROMER!!!


He won't get a notification unless you put an at sign in front of his name @, then click on his name when it pops up.
@Cromer


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

When I lowered the thermostat, my wife detached. But we all different. The OP’s wife might react differently.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> When I lowered the thermostat, my wife detached. But we all different. The OP’s wife might react differently.


I don't know this for certain, but my suspicion is because she knew you weren't going anywhere. 

If they believe (or even suspect) you are bluffing, the thermostat won't change a thing. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

Cynthia said:


> He won't get a notification unless you put an at sign in front of his name @, then click on his name when it pops up.
> @Cromer


So it doesn’t work like “Beettlejuice” ??? It always seems to work for ”Spaceghost” (on SI) so thought i would give it a shot.

Similarities? He didn’t think his wife would either….


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't know this for certain, but my suspicion is because she knew you weren't going anywhere.
> 
> If they believe (or even suspect) you are bluffing, the thermostat won't change a thing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Well, she detached and she gave me duty sex. But the sex was good. That was the proof I wasn’t the issue. The OP might find the same might happen to him if he pushes it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't know this for certain, but my suspicion is because she knew you weren't gone ing anywhere.
> 
> I*f they believe (or even suspect) you are bluffing, the thermostat won't change a thing.*
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


This is so true. Our wives knows us so well so can sniff out any incongruity in us. That’s why it REALLY has to be a real overhaul that comes from within and not to get a reaction.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> I don’t know. Is it really true she is a hateful person? I know what you are getting at but imagine how hard it must be to have sex with someone that isn’t attractive to you in that way. You would come up with anything you could to avoid and manipulate it’s happening. Her ability to hang him by a string for resource provision only may mean she is just a good survivor in her “stuck with ugly” situation ???
> 
> Regardless of the above my advice is still the same …..
> 
> GTFO !!!!


We don't know that she doesn't find him attractive. We do know that her hatefulness in nursing his perceived slights has taken precedence over any need or desire for sex with _him _(for all we know she's wearing out BOB). We do know that she has spent damn near 1/3 of their marriage pissed off (which is kinda WTH territory).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If the argument had not happened a year and a half ago and you hadn't left for 3 days, you would probably still be where you are today only her excuse was that you didn't clean out the garbage disposal when she asked you to or that didn't bring home the right cat food or some other infraction. There would have been something else that would have brought you to where you are now. 

There are underlying mental health/personality disorders taking place here. Disordered and dysfunctional people cannot have orderly and functional relationships no matter what red pill games you play. 

Until you get her into therapy and the both of you into marital counseling, you are spitting in the wind. 

One of these days you are going to come home and find her sitting in the corner rubbing poop in her hair.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

It just seems highly unusual that you mentioned mental problems to her and that turned the sex off, she still cuddles, but won’t have sex, she’s still married to you, but won’t have sex, she hasn’t left you, but won’t have sex… what IS happening here?

I notice you mentioned she is isolated in other ways (no friends, no family).

Now unless she is in an abusive marriage and can’t actually leave you I can’t understand much beyond her immediately asking you if you had someone else. (Did you ask her this when she pulled back?) And it does strike me as odd that you waited this long to ask her.

Now my husband has done Some things that really hurt over the years, worse than telling me I have mental problems. And I’ve been very honest and said, ‘look I’m really still mad, I don’t really feel like having sex or being close right now, because I’m so upset with you!’. And then I have a few days and we both cool down. He too can go to bed upset and I certainly respect it enough not to reach for him that night. But it’s over and back to normal quickly, and we can’t wait to then get naked.

18 months though?? And she’s never really been super clear from the beginning?

Something that stands out to me, is her immediate anger and defensiveness any time you try to discuss something where she may be wrong, or when you need something. These types are very difficult. (My mother was shocking like this!! You had to be careful to even ask if she could sign off homework). If you’re closing down because of this immediate lashing out, that’s on her. She’s found a way to keep accountability far away by barking immediately. On the other hand, if you’re a persistent nag (it doesn’t sound like this, has she said this??) then I can understand SOME defensiveness.

Lastly, I just can’t see why she’s still there?? I don’t understand why she hasn’t left you if she’s given up sex. I’m just not convinced anyone ever at any time can live without orgasms! 😂 people can live without a husband or wife, but not orgasms. I physically couldn’t have sex for a few periods in my life, after childbirth and one very horrific injury… and it devastated me and it was all I could think about 😃

Now the issue of the son being around and older now, and the headboard.. this might actually be a big one? 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> It just seems highly unusual that you mentioned mental problems to her and that turned the sex off, she still cuddles, but won’t have sex, she’s still married to you, but won’t have sex, she hasn’t left you, but won’t have sex… what IS happening here?
> 
> I notice you mentioned she is isolated in other ways (no friends, no family).
> 
> ...


When I brought the non sex up for the 2nd time last week (1 week after the first time I ever mentioned it) she was already using the word "pressure". I said in a nice way that you're having a laugh - I've given it 18 months. Lots of husbands would have been on your case LONG before that so don't use the word pressure for that reason. Besides which pressure to have sex in a marriage shouldn't be there full stop.

You are spot on regarding going on the defense when I challenge her on anything where she could be wrong etc. It's like she can't talk how 2 normal adults would to resolve problems. I think that's perhaps the big underlying issue here (and I know the solution - counselling, even if my wife doesn't). That's the thing people need to grasp when giving me advice perhaps - it's not like I'm talking to an adult sometimes in these big situations. If I can get her past the anxiety stage & to talk calmly then yes we get a lot more sorted but that initial stage when I bring something up I think she goes straight into flight or fight mode and shuts down. It will be initial shouting & then once that has past by we may be able to get somewhere.

I think a lot of this is from my side of things & simply not knowing what normal is. I've been in casual relationships in the past but nothing serious so this is a first for me. I have nothing to measure it against. So when 3 months past which lead onto 6 & before you know it a year has hit I was thinking in my head this is normal for a woman to get over something like this when it's a big deal in their head. It was only 3 weeks ago when I started doing research online & on here that I was realising that this 18 months is excessive.

From my side of things her cheating is out the equation. It's just not happening. I'm not saying she isn't enjoying herself when I'm not there & having orgasms everyday but cheating - No. I think she is VERY insecure as she has always asked me if I'm cheating or talking to another woman since I've known her barring the first early magical dating days. She hates it if I talk to another woman in a shop & is worried I am texting someone as I'm on my phone a lot. Obviously over the past 2 weeks I assume this is getting to her more because she knows exactly how I am viewing her at present. Rightly so too. She should feel bad & should have doubts that I'm doing something. I NEVER would but she should be thinking them when she isn't meeting me halfway in our marriage sex wise.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> When I brought the non sex up for the 2nd time last week (1 week after the first time I ever mentioned it) she was already using the word "pressure". I said in a nice way that you're having a laugh - I've given it 18 months. Lots of husbands would have been on your case LONG before that so don't use the word pressure for that reason. Besides which pressure to have sex in a marriage shouldn't be there full stop.
> 
> You are spot on regarding going on the defense when I challenge her on anything where she could be wrong etc. It's like she can't talk how 2 normal adults would to resolve problems. I think that's perhaps the big underlying issue here (and I know the solution - counselling, even if my wife doesn't). That's the thing people need to grasp when giving me advice perhaps - it's not like I'm talking to an adult sometimes in these big situations. If I can get her past the anxiety stage & to talk calmly then yes we get a lot more sorted but that initial stage when I bring something up I think she goes straight into flight or fight mode and shuts down. It will be initial shouting & then once that has past by we may be able to get somewhere.
> 
> ...


Yes I see what you mean by the defensiveness and attack mode, this is extremely difficult to live with alone, even without the sex issue. You just cannot communicate. (You must feel like bursting?? How do you live with someone who you can’t even talk to?) Is she even meeting you halfway even anywhere? I’m going to tell you something really difficult: she doesn’t like talking to you OR having sex with you.

Is she texting anyone or communicating with anyone online? You mention her insecurities and always worrying about other women… what’s the deal in your marriage with this? Do you both have friends of the opposite sex? Or is it more her making that decision from the beginning? (It’s sounding like she is eliminating herself as a woman from your life, but not allowing you any other female contact). Does SHE have male friends, an ex she is pining for, does she ever mention male coworkers? And most importantly how does SHE behave around other men?

What do YOU do for fun? It seems you might also be isolated too, because it would take me literally days to speak up to my husband, or I’d be speaking with a close friend much sooner to ask if things were ok.

Does she show interest in your hobbies, your thoughts and dreams? Get excited with you and for you when you’re happy and excited too?

I have some questions about her depression later too, but have asked a few too many for now!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So not only does she with hold sex but she also has you in a position of begging her to kiss you?

Man, this is low. Don’t ever beg someone to love you.

She has ZERO intention of being physical with you. She is cruel.

Why you are doing 200% of the effort trying to solve the issue and figure things out = she is doing zero effort and definitely doesn’t intend to change a thing. Can you see you lopsided the union is?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> So not only does she with hold sex but she also has you in a position of begging her to kiss you?
> 
> Man, this is low. Don’t ever beg someone to love you.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is my concern, I’m am actually horrified that someone has been unable to raise an issue for 18 months. Make no mistake, she is insecure because she is bringing nothing to this marriage. I’m surprised he hasn’t had a breakdown and lost his job!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes I see what you mean by the defensiveness and attack mode, this is extremely difficult to live with alone, even without the sex issue. You just cannot communicate. (You must feel like bursting?? How do you live with someone who you can’t even talk to?) Is she even meeting you halfway even anywhere? I’m going to tell you something really difficult: she doesn’t like talking to you OR having sex with you.
> 
> Is she texting anyone or communicating with anyone online? You mention her insecurities and always worrying about other women… what’s the deal in your marriage with this? Do you both have friends of the opposite sex? Or is it more her making that decision from the beginning? (It’s sounding like she is eliminating herself as a woman from your life, but not allowing you any other female contact). Does SHE have male friends, an ex she is pining for, does she ever mention male coworkers? And most importantly how does SHE behave around other men?
> 
> ...


She is meeting me halfway in other aspects of our marriage yes. We will have days out, if she is planning a day out she will always mention it to me if I want to go with her. She does all the cooking & does the majority of the housework. I do my bit but she does the majority. Any issues with bill/paperwork she is normally straight on the phone to sort out. Not because I don't want to simply because she is at home during the day so gets the paperwork before me & cracks on with sorting it to her credit. So yes I do feel as if she is meeting me halfway elsewhere.

The insecurities come from her being cheated on before. She partly thinks that all men are the same & it's only a matter of time before I do so it's not specific to me. Whoever she was with she would be the same in my opinion. I have male friends only. Yes I know a few women to chat to that work in the local shops but that is all. So when I see them I will naturally have a quick chat with them but I do with the men in the shop too - I'm just being friendly. My wife has zero friends - none. She did have 2 female friends but neither were close & over the past year has lost contact with both. Coworkers are out the equation as are ex partners as she despises them. How she behave around other men when I'm there is just polite but has no real interest in talking, she just wants to get on with our day. She maybe completely different when I'm not there but that is what I witness. 

From my side of things I admit over the last year I haven't been out so much which probably played into my wifes hands a bit. Mainly due to covid restrictions in place as everyone knows getting out places has been tougher for everyone. I am well aware that I need to get out more & leave her home alone to have some thinking time. She won't like it that I'm out - don't get me wrong she never tries to stop me because she knows I would go anyway but she doesn't like the thought of me on the town. I do have more hobbies than my wife but I did link that 18 months ago I was out a lot more. Since the argument & covid hitting I've been in so much more. I have been thinking is this a link? If I was to get out, leave her on her own would that fire up her side of things? Has she had it too easy?

I can't say if she is talking online to someone. I can only go with what I see each day & my gut instinct and that is - no she isn't. She may even be on a forum like me but I doubt it. She walks off & leaves her phone on the chair when I'm there. She has even said "if it rings can you answer it for me" so these don't point towards someone trying to hide something to me.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> So not only does she with hold sex but she also has you in a position of begging her to kiss you?
> 
> Man, this is low. Don’t ever beg someone to love you.
> 
> ...


Yeah I hear you. I'm not begging her to kiss me. I'm trying to get through to her - we have both spoken, we have both listened, you have said you have been holding back kissing me as you don't want to be a tease when at present you don't want sex. What I was trying to get across to her was kissing would be better to get us back on track in my opinion. She actually said to me again last night "shall I kiss you?, I don't know what to do". I told her "do what you want, if you want to kiss me do it, if you don't then don't. Just relax & stop analysing everything so much".....the outcome was a kiss.

Unfortunately this is a long road & I KNOW I should of sorted this along time ago but I didn't & there is nothing I can do about that now. So it's pointless me focusing on the fact I should have actioned this 15 months ago - that is on my shoulders not my wifes. This was first brought up 2 weeks ago now & it is THAT point that I am working from.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

What do you think all this extra investment of time and energy is actually worth? You can’t change someone to be something different than they naturally are.
At some point you need to put your ego and denial away and come to terms with the fact your marriage is crap in terms of normal human sexual behavior. 
There is no shortage of men on here that thought they were going to fix up a mental wife like it was some kind of badge of honor. Now they are only left with their crappy life but they get to wear a button on their shirt that says “Crap Life White Knight”

Don’t be a Crap Life White Knight.

If she was interested in you that way y’all would already be having sex. She isn’t interested….. obviously.

Change your path to change your life.

You are wasting some of your best years.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> What do you think all this extra investment of time and energy is actually worth? You can’t change someone to be something different than they naturally are.
> At some point you need to put your ego and denial away and come to terms with the fact your marriage is crap in terms of normal human sexual behavior.
> There is no shortage of men on here that thought they were going to fix up a mental wife like it was some kind of badge of honor. Now they are only left with their crappy life but they get to wear a button on their shirt that says “Crap Life White Knight”
> 
> ...


I am changing my life believe me. I'm working on me, I'm getting out, I'm putting things in place behind the scenes for me financially. I want my marriage to work & I have given myself 6 months to turn it round but don't think for 1 second it's my sole focus in life because it isn't. I'm sure it comes across like that on here but it isn't. I'm focusing on me & my marriage. If my marriage works out that would be the perfect outcome but if it doesn't then I've given myself a 6 month head start on my wife to come to terms with it & to move on.

Don't think I'm sitting here just waiting for her as I'm not. But yes I do want it to work out & I will be trying my best to make that happen without it taking over my life.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If your marriage does end, you need to prepare yourself for a very contentious divorce process. Your wife appears to lack the ability to let anything go. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The insecurities come from her being cheated on before. She partly thinks that all men are the same & it's only a matter of time before I do so it's not specific to me. Whoever she was with she would be the same in my opinion.
> 
> She didCoworkers are out the equation as are ex partners as she despises them.


This is shifting gears a bit, but is something to think about. 

How much do you really know about these prior relationships other than what SHE has told you? 

One always needs be a little on the alert when someone “despises” their ex’s. 

Was she the perfect little wife or GF and these big, bad men cheated on her for no reason while she was home dutifully tending the garden? 

Were they predators and sex traffickers and drug dealers that were out hooking up with desperate junkies while she was at bible study? 

Or was she mentally unstable and had stopped interacting with them on an intimate level for some infraction they had done and when they had had enough of her they found someone else as they were going out the door? 

Did they even truly cheat on her while they were still in the relationship or had she stopped interacting with them intimately and so they moved on and started seeing someone else leaving her behind and she was just resentful and bitter so now says they cheated? 

Men if don’t formally break up with women in the same manner as women break up with men. Men often just kind of stop calling and stop coming around ...... especially if nothing is really going on in the bedroom. 

Had she not touched them in a month or two so they just went on about their business and got with someone and so now she considers them as cheating?? 

And if someone “despises” all of their ex’s, that’s a red flag. Who is the common denominator in all of those relationships??

That’s a position you may find yourself on the receiving end of at some point.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yeah I hear you. I'm not begging her to kiss me. I'm trying to get through to her - we have both spoken, we have both listened, you have said you have been holding back kissing me as you don't want to be a tease when at present you don't want sex. What I was trying to get across to her was kissing would be better to get us back on track in my opinion. She actually said to me again last night "shall I kiss you?, I don't know what to do". I told her "do what you want, if you want to kiss me do it, if you don't then don't. Just relax & stop analysing everything so much".....the outcome was a kiss.
> 
> Unfortunately this is a long road & I KNOW I should of sorted this along time ago but I didn't & there is nothing I can do about that now. So it's pointless me focusing on the fact I should have actioned this 15 months ago - that is on my shoulders not my wifes. This was first brought up 2 weeks ago now & it is THAT point that I am working from.


Even if it leads nowhere in the end, your interactions with her are sounding better. 

By not fueling that intense anxiety of hers, you'll see if she's actually capable of regrouping and doing what she needs to during the time you've given her. Keep making it a fair test, so that in the end you'll know you weren't contributing to her inability to find her way back out.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> This is shifting gears a bit, but is something to think about.
> 
> How much do you really know about these prior relationships other than what SHE has told you?
> 
> ...


Yes I have given that a lot of thought over the past 18 months or so. I know factually her ex cheated on her so it isn't made up. She found proof he was cheating & he didn't deny it when questioned so she kicked him out. What lead him to cheat though is up for debate & I've only heard her side of things. What she did tell me is she stopped having sex with him as they weren't getting on so I know this is like deja vu. I've actually said to a close friend of mine if she carried on like this in the past & you're the type that cheats I can see why he went elsewhere. If she is repeating with me what she did with him then I fully see why he did it. 

I have also thought that she is the common denominator in all these things so much so I've said it to her in the past. When she was ranting on about me & other people in her life at that point I told her outright - you're the 1 person that is always involved in these dramas which she hated - truth hurts. I have picked up on all these things believe me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I have given that a lot of thought over the past 18 months or so. I know factually her ex cheated on her so it isn't made up. She found proof he was cheating & he didn't deny it when questioned so she kicked him out. What lead him to cheat though is up for debate & I've only heard her side of things. What she did tell me is she stopped having sex with him as they weren't getting on so I know this is like deja vu. I've actually said to a close friend of mine if she carried on like this in the past & you're the type that cheats I can see why he went elsewhere. If she is repeating with me what she did with him then I fully see why he did it.
> 
> I have also thought that she is the common denominator in all these things so much so I've said it to her in the past. When she was ranting on about me & other people in her life at that point I told her outright - you're the 1 person that is always involved in these dramas which she hated - truth hurts. I have picked up on all these things believe me.


It's good that you recognize it, but pointing it out to her is something better left to a professional. 

How does she normally behave when things don't go her way, or when she experiences setbacks?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> Even if it leads nowhere in the end, your interactions with her are sounding better.
> 
> By not fueling that intense anxiety of hers, you'll see if she's actually capable of regrouping and doing what she needs to during the time you've given her. Keep making it a fair test, so that in the end you'll know you weren't contributing to her inability to find her way back out.


Yes I understand. I'm not playing games & not trying to hurt her. I will be going out more which will lead to her getting anxious but that is a part of life right now. I know what it will do to her but I'm doing it to focus on my life not to wind her up on purpose. If she is unwilling to talk to someone to tackle this head on then she will have to put up with some negatives along the road.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

seadoug105 said:


> So it doesn’t work like “Beettlejuice” ??? It always seems to work for ”Spaceghost” (on SI) so thought i would give it a shot.
> 
> Similarities? He didn’t think his wife would either….


That is Cromer's own thread. He may get messaged when there is recent activity.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> It's good that you recognize it, but pointing it out to her is something better left to a professional.
> 
> How does she normally behave when things don't go her way, or when she experiences setbacks?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


It all depends. Sometimes she will fly off the handle other times she will take it like most adults do. It really is 50/50 - nothing stands out. I think things hurt her & get to her more than most adults. She probably hides how little things hurt her more than she shows. She seems to take certain setbacks very personally from what I see when to most they it's just a weekly setback and then they carry on.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One other suggestion for you to do, and it doesn't have to happen right away, but it should be sooner rather than later...

Consult a divorce attorney/solicitor. Get a feel for what you can reasonably expect to happen should this end. 

Eliminate as many possible unknowns as possible as divorce alone is a stressful enough proposition. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> One other suggestion for you to do, and it doesn't have to happen right away, but it should be sooner rather than later...
> 
> Consult a divorce attorney/solicitor. Get a feel for what you can reasonably expect to happen should this end.
> 
> ...


Yes I will sort that ahead of time if need be. Will focus on what I can do at home first. If I see no real change or meeting me halfway then I will start taking that route to get something in place for me. I'm pretty good as leaving no stone unturned especially with big things like this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So she is a stay at home wife and you leave the home to go to work everyday?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> So she is a stay at home wife and you leave the home to go to work everyday?


Yes but I work just round the corner so pop back home out the blue during the day. So the answer is NO she isn't!


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes but I work just round the corner so pop back home out the blue during the day. So the answer is NO she isn't!


I know you're convinced about this.
But the way you describe things, it's still not unreasonable to include EA as a possibility.
Online EA can easily be stopped when the door opens b/c hubby is home.

She's getting satisfied SOMEHOW. I'm not convinced it's solo (yet).

But I do hope it's not EA/PA.
All the mental health suggestions are good ones, and I hope for the best with your plan B.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes but I work just round the corner so pop back home out the blue during the day. So the answer is NO she isn't!


I’m not arguing that, but realize she could be having an emotional affair via her phone. I agree after reading your thread that it doesn’t sound likely, but you can’t imagine how many men are so confident their wives aren’t cheating and feel like complete fools when they find out they were years later. I think your wife is just mentally screwed up and like a bad car, if you fix one thing it’ll be another.
But if you haven’t yet investigated, you should at least do a little. 18 months ago there was a sudden change. Yes, it’s likely that it’s the fight and your wife’s cheese easily slides off her cracker. But, you should investigate at least a little IF you haven’t.

You’ve described your wife as complex. People aren’t as complex as we sometimes think. 
There are reasons people do things.
The most common reasons people stop having sex with their spouse are:

Hormonal changes due to age, menopause, drugs

They aren’t attracted to their spouse 

They never did enjoy sex and did it for a while to catch a spouse.

They’re cheating

I’m betting it’s one of these for your wife.
so I’d investigate each possibility. 

your wife has said these are the reasons:

bed makes noise
Worried about pregnancy
Now it’s resentment.

All three of those are lies. You just won’t accept it. You keep thinking that you can fix this because it’s somehow your fault. I think that’s unproductive. At least 2 of those three reasons she gave are lies. Why should you believe the third?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

How was your marriage for the 6 months that your parents lived with you? Were you having regular sex? Was she affectionate? 
Did having your parents staying with you put a strain on your relationship? Was she spending time out of the house to getaway from the drama or to have some “me time?”

Just trying to get the lay of the land just before the blow up. I think it’s important that you completely check back on the period that your parents stayed with you. With all the chaos that having your parents staying with you would bring, it is easy to overlook an important change that was taking place and just chalk it off, as your wife blowing off steam or that you wouldn’t even notice a change because your attention is being diverted. Whatever the cause, the seeds of the blow up were sown during that time. It just took sometime for them to take root.

Do you have access to her phone from that time? Maybe there was someone she was confiding in. It can help to get into what she was thinking or doing during that time, to better understand her thinking.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m not arguing that, but realize she could be having an emotional affair via her phone. I agree after reading your thread that it doesn’t sound likely, but you can’t imagine how many men are so confident their wives aren’t cheating and feel like complete fools when they find out they were years later. I think your wife is just mentally screwed up and like a bad car, if you fix one thing it’ll be another.
> But if you haven’t yet investigated, you should at least do a little. 18 months ago there was a sudden change. Yes, it’s likely that it’s the fight and your wife’s cheese easily slides off her cracker. But, you should investigate at least a little IF you haven’t.
> 
> You’ve described your wife as complex. People aren’t as complex as we sometimes think.
> ...


How do you go about finding out if someone is cheating? I still very much doubt it but for arguments sake. I can't get into her phone as she has a code on it.

One thing I will make clear - I don't think this is my fault. Not after 18 months anyway. The initial argument was down to my wife pushing for a big argument & I have tried many things to sort it since. This is on my wife not me.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> How do you go about finding out if someone is cheating? I still very much doubt it but for arguments sake. I can't get into her phone as she has a code on it.
> 
> One thing I will make clear - I don't think this is my fault. Not after 18 months anyway. The initial argument was down to my wife pushing for a big argument & I have tried many things to sort it since. This is on my wife not me.


Tell her that you don't appreciate her accusing you of cheating and it makes you wonder what she's up to, so it's time for 100% transparency. Tell her that you want her phone code and that you'll give her yours and that both of you will have full access to each other's phones. See what she does.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> Tell her that you don't appreciate her accusing you of cheating and it makes you wonder what she's up to, so it's time for 100% transparency. Tell her that you want her phone code and that you'll give her yours and that both of you will have full access to each other's phones. See what she does.


I like this no-nonsense approach. No emotion, no drama, new rules. Boom.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Tell her that you don't appreciate her accusing you of cheating and it makes you wonder what she's up to, so it's time for 100% transparency. Tell her that you want her phone code and that you'll give her yours and that both of you will have full access to each other's phones. See what she does.


That's a clever way of doing it! I will bear it in mind. As I said it's really not what this is about but it's a good way to go about it should I want.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> How was your marriage for the 6 months that your parents lived with you? Were you having regular sex? Was she affectionate?
> Did having your parents staying with you put a strain on your relationship? Was she spending time out of the house to getaway from the drama or to have some “me time?”
> 
> Just trying to get the lay of the land just before the blow up. I think it’s important that you completely check back on the period that your parents stayed with you. With all the chaos that having your parents staying with you would bring, it is easy to overlook an important change that was taking place and just chalk it off, as your wife blowing off steam or that you wouldn’t even notice a change because your attention is being diverted. Whatever the cause, the seeds of the blow up were sown during that time. It just took sometime for them to take root.
> ...


Everything was fine. Sex was the same. Yes slightly awkward with other people in the house but we had the same amount of sex as before & it was just as good. 

She wasn't out of the house anymore. There was no real difference at all. Sex was still the same afterwards once we lived on our own again. I can't link our problems to that era much at all.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> That's a clever way of doing it! I will bear it in mind. As I said it's really not what this is about but it's a good way to go about it should I want.


If a spouse refuses to give their husband/wife the pass code to their anything, I find that highly suspicious.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Look for apps on her phone that you’re not familiar with like kik, Snapchat….. 
phone bill…..
I’m not an expert. If your wife’s phone is locked and you’re not privy to see it,…… pretty much bad news.
See who she’s texting, then see how often. Lots of cheaters change their AP’s name to one of the same gender on their phone. 
This is just something to check to see if you can find a reason for this change. There’s always a reason. People don’t always tell the truth.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Every person with a cheating spouse says initially “no way my spouse is cheating!” 

Tell her to get a full time job! She is a spoiled brat!! She needs to work hard and appreciate what you do to maintain her lifestyle. She is taking you for granted. When she has to work work work to get basic needs met - she may act more grateful! She also has WAY too much time to sit and “think” about what she is mad about. Busy people don’t have time to stop and think if they are even one minute mad about something! 

She is spoiled and ungrateful!!! I don’t know what you find to love about that. On top of that - look at her phone bill! You likely pay that bill so look it up and see who she communicates with while you’re at work!

Stop thinking she isn’t cheating - she COULD be!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wait, so she doesn't work, either????


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Cynthia said:


> Tell her that you don't appreciate her accusing you of cheating and it makes you wonder what she's up to, so it's time for 100% transparency. Tell her that you want her phone code and that you'll give her yours and that both of you will have full access to each other's phones. See what she does.


This is a great idea. They both should be open to each other, especially if there’s a feeling that something is not on the up & up. My wife and I have access to each other’s devices.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Wait, so she doesn't work, either????


No she's not working at present as she lost her job. She's been working 90% of the time we've been together though.


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## chazmataz33 (Apr 18, 2021)

Have you asked for the phone code? I noticed my wifes phone had a locked screen and I asked her about it.She said in order to change a password google made her lock her phone.she said she didnt think anything of it and went back in and unlocked it.then handed me the phone.I guess I got it pretty good.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Also be sensitive to the timing.
If you ask for the phone code, there should be no delay in getting it.
In other words, no time for her to go delete a bunch of stuff she doesn't want you to see.

What possible reason could there be to not hand it over right then?

Check pictures and also deleted pictures.
Call log
Text messages. Even messages to girls because they could be guys with girl names.
And check for chat apps like @Evinrude58 mentioned.

I'm hoping this is a wild goose chase.
Not that PlanB is much better I guess.
Rock meet hardplace.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I can't get into her phone as she has a code on it.


You guys have never shared codes or passwords? 

Next time she says "are you seeing another woman?" Give her your phone for her to check and ask her to give you hers and see what she says. If she refuses, she's hiding something. 

I've always shared passwords and codes with my husband.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> You guys have never shared codes or passwords?
> 
> Next time she says "are you seeing another woman?" Give her your phone for her to check and ask her to give you hers and see what she says. If she refuses, she's hiding something.
> 
> I've always shared passwords and codes with my husband.


I think this is fair. 

I need to qualify that though however that you need to do this in response to her accusing you of cheating. 

If she starts in with that again tell her that you will hand her over your phone and she can go through it provided she hands her over right then and there on the spot. 

Don’t let her say she’ll do it later or take it to the bathroom or other room etc where she can delete anything.

You’ll be able to tell a lot by her reactions and how she handles that request.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The problem with the phone thing is that if she doesn’t hand it over nothing will change. We have seen it on TAM a hundred times that the spouse refuses because “insert BS” and the other spouse just accepts it with ongoing denial. When have we ever seen it be an actual tilting point? Never that I remember…. They just suck it up like the rest of the garbage.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I will use the phone tactic next time she mentions anything about cheating/texting. I will be ready to monitor her body language & facial reaction as I say it. She certainly won't be expecting me to say anything like that so it would be a real shock.

We've never shared codes but on the flip side we've never particularly hidden them. Before our son had his own phone 6 months ago he used to use ours to play games on & would ask us our codes in front of each other when he forgot. I said mine without a problem as did my wife. I really didn't listen out to hear what it was. I don't doubt her like that.

Like I said I'm very confident this is just diverting from the real issues. Cheating in any form isn't the issue here. I will however use the above next time whenever that may be & see what happens.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I will use the phone tactic next time she mentions anything about cheating/texting. I will be ready to monitor her body language & facial reaction as I say it. She certainly won't be expecting me to say anything like that so it would be a real shock.
> 
> We've never shared codes but on the flip side we've never particularly hidden them. Before our son had his own phone 6 months ago he used to use ours to play games on & would ask us our codes in front of each other when he forgot. I said mine without a problem as did my wife. I really didn't listen out to hear what it was I don't doubt her like that.
> 
> Like I said I'm very confident this is just diverting from the real issues. Cheating in any form isn't the issue here. I will however use the above next time whenever that may be & see what happens.


While I have seemingly critical post I do want to throw out there that you do seem to have your head screwed on right and you are trying to apply logic. 👌


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> While I have seemingly critical post I do want to throw out there that you do seem to have your head screwed on right and you are trying to apply logic. 👌


Thanks! I think I'm pretty level headed & going about this the right way long term. Might not be for everyone but for my life I trust this is the best way of handling things


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No she doesn't go anywhere weird. She doesn't guard her phone. Quite the opposite, it's rang before when she was out the room & I didn't answer it. She actually said could I pick it up next time if it rings in the future & she's not in the room.


You revealed that she has a code on her phone. No need to guard it then. Do you not need the code to answer it? Maybe depends on the phone. 

Either way, she could have told an AP to not call, and have hidden apps for communication. This statement does not mean I think she's cheating, just to make you aware that permission to answer her phone does not prove anything.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

manwithnoname said:


> You revealed that she has a code on her phone. No need to guard it then. Do you not need the code to answer it? Maybe depends on the phone.
> 
> Either way, she could have told an AP to not call, and have hidden apps for communication. This statement does not mean I think she's cheating, just to make you aware that permission to answer her phone does not prove anything.


Yes I get that. With her phone & mine you don't need a code to answer the phone. I'm sure there is a way to change it in settings but neither of us have seen the need to do so.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I get that. With her phone & mine you don't need a code to answer the phone. I'm sure there is a way to change it in settings but neither of us have seen the need to do so.


Your local cell provider probably has somebody on staff that knows how to fix that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> The problem with the phone thing is that if she doesn’t hand it over nothing will change. We have seen it on TAM a hundred times that the spouse refuses because “insert BS” and the other spouse just accepts it with ongoing denial. When have we ever seen it be an actual tilting point? Never that I remember…. They just suck it up like the rest of the garbage.


The real value to this probably won’t have anything to do with what is actually on her on phone. 

For starters, just her reaction will be telling. 

And perhaps most importantly it will be him having some balls, looking for answers and holding her accountable for her actions.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Like I said I'm very confident this is just diverting from the real issues. Cheating in any form isn't the issue here. I will however use the above next time whenever that may be & see what happens.


There’s a bigger picture here though.

Even if she’s not cheating, you are challenging the status quo and looking for answers and no longer accepting that she is just unilaterally turning off the marital intimacy forever.

It’s about holding her accountable for answers and to address the issues like an adult. 

It’s about you no longer catering to her and appeasing her while she denies you your needs without question. 

You have the right to answers about why the intimacy in your marriage has been denied for a year and a half. 

Assuming you are right about her not cheating, you challenging her about the phone is demonstrating that you are no longer laying down for her and that if she is going to accuse you of cheating, you are challenging that and holding her accountable as well. 

This is about you growing some balls, looking for answers, not taking her sht and challenging that status quo that you have allowed to continue for a year and a half.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I get that. With her phone & mine you don't need a code to answer the phone. I'm sure there is a way to change it in settings but neither of us have seen the need to do so.


Then you need to follow through with the suggestion that next time she accuses you of cheating, hand her your phone and ask for hers and her code.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

jsmart said:


> How was your marriage for the 6 months that your parents lived with you? Were you having regular sex? Was she affectionate?
> Did having your parents staying with you put a strain on your relationship? Was she spending time out of the house to getaway from the drama or to have some “me time?”


The OP and wife were staying with his parents in his parents' home. It wasn't his parents who were imposing. His wife thought she was being taken advantage of because she_ thought_ she was having to do all of the cooking. 

How much rent was the OP and wife paying his parents?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> The OP and wife were staying with his parents in his parents' home. It wasn't his parents who were imposing. His wife thought she was being taken advantage of because she_ thought_ she was having to do all of the cooking.
> 
> How much rent was the OP and wife paying his parents?


Yes you're right - it was us staying at my parents place not them staying with us. My parents offered for us to live with them as the owners of the property we were renting wanted the property back. They didn't have to offer & when they did my wife was happy because at that point we were under pressure to find a roof over our heads.

My parents kindly said to pay them a small amount of rent to cover bills, food etc but it was less than we were paying at our property before moving in. They said "we can afford to have you here & want you here so hopefully you can save some money whilst with us by paying a bit less". Again my wife was happy with this. 

My wife started making issues & finding problems in life that really weren't there. None of us could understand what her problem was. Some arguments followed but again it was my wife kicking off & my parents just trying to defuse the situation. I was stuck in the middle & tried to let them as adults sort it out. My wife has since blamed me for not taking her side. I said "yes you're right I didn't, but on the flip side I didn't take my parents side either - I stood back hoping you could sort it". I was completely on my parents side however but me voicing that at that point would have made matters 100 times worse. My parents know I viewed them as being correct as I have spoken about it with them since. 

Not sure if it was a jealousy thing as my mum was the other lady in my life and therefore a threat. Nobody knows. All I know is she was seeing things that just weren't happening. It was at this point when I first started researching mental illness.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So being passive and “sitting back abd letting them work it out”….,., that didn’t work out too good….. you are seeming to be totally afraid of your wife leaving you from the very beginning of the marriage. You can’t manage to do anything out of fear she will blow up. I think this has a role to play in how you’ve gotten to this point. You’ve allowed your wife to constantly push you around.
She is such a pain that she even holds sex over your head to the point she doesn’t even want it anymore.

Uou say everything else is perfect in your marriage other than the sex, yet the more you say, the more it sounds like she’s not so great of a partner at all.

Why not just tell her you’ve been thinking about the cheating comment and want to trade phones for a day and check up on one another?
No, you gotta wait until….

Like someone pointed out…. It’s not even about the cheating, it’s about you actually standing up for yourself and not taking her bs anymore. That’s all you do is tolerate unreasonable behavior. Time to make some changes or divorce. No time like the present. 
You aren’t happy, she’s not happy. Where do you think that will lead eventually?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP is a codependent enabler of her bad behavior.

She needs a partner who will put up with her personality dysfunction, and he's one who will because he doesn't know how to stand up to toxic, poor treatment and is willing to stay in a poor relationship.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You are a step-father to your child. Is the bio father involved at all in the child's life?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> You are a step-father to your child. Is the bio father involved at all in the child's life?


The dad is around but has no real interest in his son. They will see each other twice a month on average I would say & that's it. He has no real input in his life & it's more like he has to see him as apposed to wanting to.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's becoming more and more clear why this woman is keeping OP around even though she has no interest in a sexual relationship with him.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> It's becoming more and more clear why this woman is keeping OP around even though she had no interest in a sexual relationship with him.


We're on a 5? month glide slope to seeing the truth about all this.

I predict a major blow up way before that. For one reason or another, I'm not sure which but I'm still on the EA train.

I will say that living with folks, especially parents, can be super-stressful for both couples even in the best of times. BTDT
I wouldn't try to overthink what happened during that period.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The dad is around but has no real interest in his son. They will see each other twice a month on average I would say & that's it. He has no real input in his life & it's more like he has to see him as apposed to wanting to.


The wife's relationship with the bio dad is the one I would watch.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

Ok, so there's like 73 quotes I'd like to put out here and respond to, but I'll just leave it at this...

Your wife is not complex, she's actually very simple. She may have some mental health issues, but in this instance, they're a crutch and completely irrelevant.

She uses all of it to manipulate you and you can't refute her reasons. But, here's the thing, you shouldn't have to do it.

You say you're not playing games. You may actually feel that way, but here's the thing, you are playing games. They're just not your games. You're playing her game every day. And losing.

I'm still mad. Manipulation
Are you looking to cheat on me? Manipulation.
I don't want to get pregnant. Manipulation.
I feel pressured. Manipulation.

And you keep playing along. She literally has no reason to change. She has you as an ATM, and her games are working. From her point of view, why should she change anything?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes you're right - it was us staying at my parents place not them staying with us. My parents offered for us to live with them as the owners of the property we were renting wanted the property back. They didn't have to offer & when they did my wife was happy because at that point we were under pressure to find a roof over our heads.
> 
> My parents kindly said to pay them a small amount of rent to cover bills, food etc but it was less than we were paying at our property before moving in. They said "we can afford to have you here & want you here so hopefully you can save some money whilst with us by paying a bit less". Again my wife was happy with this.
> 
> ...


Earlier when you replied to me about your relationship during your 6 month stay with your parents that everything was fine sex and affection wise but here you point out that your wife was combative and complaining about even petty things. Was that only with your mom or was that with you as well?

It is very common for a WWs to be very argumentative with her husband as a way to avoid intimacy and also to justify her betrayal in her head. 

I don’t think your wife is cheating on you now. I think she might have prior to the 18 month period and suspect it would have happened during the time you were staying at your parents.

I have to add that it is insane that your wife would give your mom attitude after your parents took you her and her kid in. Was she expecting you to argue with your mom over chore sharing load.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I guess I missed that the son was from a previous relationship.

Yeah, you simply got played by a single mother looking for someone to help cover rent and help with child rearing.

She used sex in the beginning to reel you in and then when she knew she had you in her pocket, she turned off the sex spigot because she simply doesn’t want to. 

The kid is old enough to get himself to and from school and can eat, toilet and dress himself, your usefulness is pretty much done except for covering rent and expenses.

You just need to ask yourself if you want to continue to pay for someone who isn’t into you sexually. 

Simple as that.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> The wife's relationship with the bio dad is the one I would watch.


No way. Believe me. She would rather cheat with ANYONE else. He is not involved here at all.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I guess I missed that the son was from a previous relationship.
> 
> Yeah, you simply got played by a single mother looking for someone to help cover rent and help with child rearing.
> 
> ...


But she didn't turn off sex at all until that argument. It wasn't like we got married & it stopped. We carried on having sex fine long after getting married. It is linked to that argument to me but I maybe wrong. Maybe she has played me all along.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No way. Believe me. She would rather cheat with ANYONE else. He is not involved here at all.


OP be careful of this kind of thinking.

I'm not saying bio is a problem or that there's even affair. But sometimes 'I hate him' is a cover story; there's lots of stories on TAM to back that up.

Just don't exclude anything until you confirm it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> OP be careful of this kind of thinking.
> 
> I'm not saying bio is a problem or that there's even affair. But sometimes 'I hate him' is a cover story; there's lots of stories on TAM to back that up.
> 
> Just don't exclude anything until you confirm it.


Will do. I won't rule it out completely.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I just want to add to what @BeyondRepair007 said. That hate shows a strong emotional attachment. She should be at indifference, which is really the opposite of love. That's the issue with wifeing up a single mom. I read of way too many times that the baby daddy occasionally hooks up with them. Not saying that is the case here but just an observation.

If it's not another man, (or former OM) then she has emotional issues that need to be looked at by a professional. It's just that my spidey senses tell me the argument from a18 months ago, as well as the fear of being heard by son or getting pregnant are BS excuses to avoid intimacy with you.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Long story short: she wants the benefits of marriage, but she isn't much into OP.

That's really the bottom line.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Long story short: she wants the benefits of marriage, but she isn't much into OP.
> 
> That's really the bottom line.


I agree. Everyone wants to think relationships are complicated, that their unloving spouse is even more complicated. It’s not.

Guess what these frigid women that h go o sexless on their husbands do when they get divorced and start dating again? They have monkey sex with the new guy, complain how horrible the sex was in their past relationship, and give him whatever he wants.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> But she didn't turn off sex at all until that argument. It wasn't like we got married & it stopped. We carried on having sex fine long after getting married. It is linked to that argument to me but I maybe wrong. Maybe she has played me all along.


No one is saying the argument isn’t a factor.

But That argument a year and half ago may have been the final nail in the coffin. 

She may have been “OK” with having sex with you to keep you around and keep you writing checks, but then the argument pushed her over the edge and she just couldn’t do it (or fake it) any more. 

It brought out her true colors and how she truly sees you. 

So you may be asking yourself how all of these posters seem so convinced that she is not attracted to you and simply doesn’t want to have sex with you?? 

Answer = she has rejected you for a year and a half and makes silly excuses and is accusing you of pressuring her now when you’ve brought it up.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Guess what these frigid women that h go o sexless on their husbands do when they get divorced and start dating again? They have monkey sex with the new guy, complain how horrible the sex was in their past relationship, and give him whatever he wants.


Truth.

Just like she did initially with the OP.

Assuming they split, she will be telling her next guy that Somedayyouwillfindme was abusive and was only using her for sex and that he cheated on her.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You’ve been way too passive and agreeable and now she holds all the power. She also mistreated your mother and you didn’t stand up and tell her to stop it.

Why are you so so passive when she is acting like a purposeful jerk?

It’s time for you to be strong and set up some guidelines that show her how to be a kind and loving person to those around her!

For now, what you describe is a woman who is willing to stay but complain so she doesn’t really have to play the role of your wife! She is using you! 

Start telling her what you expect! If she has no intention of participating like a loving wife - she will eliminate herself by not changing. (Which is what she’s been doing)!


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

OP I would advise going ahead with your plan, but you also need to get your wife's phone and check back the last few years, or minimum the 18 months since she cut sex out of your marriage any and all deleted messages get a professional phone person to bring every deleted message, photo, email etc back. Check for secretive apps. If she has nothing to hide her reaction should be "here darling do whatever necessary to reassure yourself" if she has anything to hide she will make allsorts of excuses why you can't have her phone, she will become angry, argumentative, and refuse to give you her phone and give a ****ty excuse. You need her phone for peace of mind. I would dump her if resting to give you her phone. What is she hiding? The phone is an important piece of this. So please get her phone and take to an expert. Tell them to bring all removed stuff back. Don't give her phone back till you have checked the lot. Tell her you need reassurance. Beware if she gets angry. That alone is dodgy and not a good sign.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No way. Believe me. She would rather cheat with ANYONE else. He is not involved here at all.


There have been a few threads here, where the woman supposedly would never enter a relationship with a bad boy again, but they do. 
In principle, if a woman is creating fights to make it impossible to be intimate, she is really looking for a way out of the relationship.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> There have been a few threads here, where the woman supposedly would never enter a relationship with a bad boy again, but they do.


Girls like bad boys. Women like men.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Girls like bad boys. Women like men.


Completely agree. 
Thrill with no responsibility.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Completely agree.
> Thrill with no responsibility.


There is truly nothing hotter than a man who loves and respects his wife for her mind and her heart. Who truly values her as a person, not sees her as a housekeeper/brood mare/plan B for sex. It's not as complicated as people think.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There is truly nothing hotter than a man who loves and respects his wife for her mind and her heart. Who truly values her as a person, not sees her as a housekeeper/brood mare/plan B for sex. It's not as complicated as people think.


This is true.

That said, there is a substantial problem with partners of both sexes holding their current partner accountable for poor treatment by past partners. 

Whether it be sexual trauma/CSA, cheating, retroactive jealousy, or just simply being used and discarded, that baggage inevitably surfaces in so many of these threads. 

The reason I brought this up is because many men (or women, as it were) do respect their partner for who they are, but their partners simply can't completely get past their own demons. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> This is true.
> 
> That said, there is a substantial problem with partners of both sexes holding their current partner accountable for poor treatment by past partners.
> 
> ...


True story. I struggle too, I have to remember my husband is not my father, nor is he my ex-fiancé.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> True story. I struggle too, I have to remember my husband is not my father, nor is he my ex-fiancé.


Her father...if I could count how many times I heard that comparison prior to me changing my marital dynamic. 

The funny thing is that it is pure projection. When things go astray, she shifts into the domineering, controlling behavior that she claims to despise from him.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Her father...if I could count how many times I heard that comparison prior to me changing my marital dynamic.
> 
> The funny thing is that it is pure projection. When things go astray, she shifts into the domineering, controlling behavior that she claims to despise from him.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


It's so hard, but it's on her to control it. Therapy helps.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m guessing still no sex. I keep hoping there’s gonna be a revelation. OP isn’t gonna get any good sex with his wife. She doesn’t want to have sex with him and really, the reason isn’t all that important because the woman has no desire to change.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m guessing still no sex. I keep hoping there’s gonna be a revelation. OP isn’t gonna get any good sex with his wife. She doesn’t want to have sex with him and really, the reason isn’t all that important because the woman has no desire to change.


Nope no sex. I've been focusing on my life more to be honest. I was sorting financial things out yesterday just in case.

I'm here for 5 months now to try turn this around. Might happen, might not but won't just change overnight.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Nope no sex. I've been focusing on my life more to be honest. I was sorting financial things out yesterday just in case.
> 
> I'm here for 5 months now to try turn this around. Might happen, might not but won't just change overnight.


I find it fascinating she still refuses to have sex with her husband. Have you asked her yet in what way she "isn't ready" and what exactly she's doing to "get ready"? Have you asked her how she plans to solve her sex refusal issue?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Nope no sex. I've been focusing on my life more to be honest. I was sorting financial things out yesterday just in case.
> 
> I'm here for 5 months now to try turn this around. Might happen, might not but won't just change overnight.


What have your interactions with her been like?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> What have your interactions with her been like?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Some good, some bad. There is tension there obviously as the underlying issue is there every day & we both know about it. We've kissed. Less cuddling as I haven't initiated it like I was. She has come up to me to cuddle on sofa & I have done so but I have pulled back from going up to her to initiate it.

If/when nothing changes I will refuse the cuddles & turn the dial up more. I know it looks like I'm doing things slowly because I am. Me changing everything overnight just won't work for our marriage. I stand a better chance turning it round slowly.

That's me. I know some are saying they can't believe nothing has changed yet but every relationship is different. I'm not saying it will work but I know I will have a better chance doing it slowly.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Some good, some bad. There is tension there obviously as the underlying issue is there every day & we both know about it. We've kissed. Less cuddling as I haven't initiated it like I was. She has come up to me to cuddle on sofa & I have done so but I have pulled back from going up to her to initiate it.
> 
> If/when nothing changes I will refuse the cuddles & turn the dial up more. I know it looks like I'm doing things slowly because I am. Me changing everything overnight just won't work for our marriage. I stand a better chance turning it round slowly.
> 
> That's me. I know some are saying they can't believe nothing has changed yet but every relationship is different. I'm not saying it will work but I know I will have a better chance doing it slowly.


I think you have 2 likely scenarios here: she'll cave in and she'll give you pity sex every month or she'll think you are an arsehole after all and she will detach with no sex.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Heartbreaking dude.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Some good, some bad. There is tension there obviously as the underlying issue is there every day & we both know about it. We've kissed. Less cuddling as I haven't initiated it like I was. She has come up to me to cuddle on sofa & I have done so but I have pulled back from going up to her to initiate it.
> 
> If/when nothing changes I will refuse the cuddles & turn the dial up more. I know it looks like I'm doing things slowly because I am. Me changing everything overnight just won't work for our marriage. I stand a better chance turning it round slowly.
> 
> That's me. I know some are saying they can't believe nothing has changed yet but every relationship is different. I'm not saying it will work but I know I will have a better chance doing it slowly.


Have you used any of the boundary statements yet?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Just me, no way I'm cuddling or kissing my wife when she refuses to have sex with me, and she knows it's important to me (because I've come to her telling her it's important numerous times and I'm concerned about our relationship). And yet she continues to do nothing.

Also how good you going to be with her possibly giving you duty sex in order to keep you around (if she's even willing to do this)?

For the past eighteen months it hasn't been important to her and you're giving her six more months to show you it's important to her (which could put this close to TWO years) and when she only gives in because you may leave???

Is this really what you want?

Her forced to have sex with you? Something that hasn't been important to her at all, knowing what it was doing to you, and now she may potentially have a change of heart only because if she doesn't her marriage is over??

I ask again is this really what you want?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Sadly, I don’t think he’s going to get duty sex or it would have happened already.
And he’s scared to even stop cuddling with Coldilocks because she might get upset if SHE feels rejected.

I feel bad.

OP, the least you could do to help your life get back is see an attorney and get the ball rolling.
It’s not like it doesn’t take months for it to get to the final stages. Maybe years.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Some good, some bad. There is tension there obviously as the underlying issue is there every day & we both know about it. We've kissed. Less cuddling as I haven't initiated it like I was. She has come up to me to cuddle on sofa & I have done so but I have pulled back from going up to her to initiate it.
> 
> If/when nothing changes I will refuse the cuddles & turn the dial up more. I know it looks like I'm doing things slowly because I am. Me changing everything overnight just won't work for our marriage. I stand a better chance turning it round slowly.
> 
> That's me. I know some are saying they can't believe nothing has changed yet but every relationship is different. I'm not saying it will work but I know I will have a better chance doing it slowly.


I guess you aren't understanding what the point of the shocking interactions is....none of this is SUPPOSED TO fix your marriage. She is SUPPOSED TO be upset and jerked off her pedestal, that's the only way anything works.

You need to clearly understand -- THAT is your ONLY way to fix this, and it might not even work. But being nice to her while she treats you like crap and willfully denies your physical needs in your monogamous relationship WILL NOT change anything for you.

If you slowly back away, she remain comfortable and hardly notice.

Making her comfortable is your path to FAILURE....just like it's been for the past 18+ months.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess you aren't understanding what the point of the shocking interactions is....none of this is SUPPOSED TO fix your marriage. She is SUPPOSED TO be upset and jerked off her pedestal, that's the only way anything works.
> 
> You need to clearly understand -- THAT is your ONLY way to fix this, and it might not even work. But being nice to her while she treats you like crap and willfully denies your physical needs in your monogamous relationship WILL NOT change anything for you.
> 
> ...


He is lowering the thermostat, so it takes time. But it’s an extreme situation, so I doubt it will work. I think scenario number 2 will happen, or maybe a mix of the two… duty sex whilst detaching, because of the child.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just need some advice please. My wife & I have been together 9 years & married 5 years. Sex to start with was amazing, regular & trying all sorts of things. Over the years that past by to just normal straight forward sex which I don't mind at all. I understand that the start of a relationship is always full of excitement. The problem has been over the last 18 months where we have had sex twice. I try to initiate things but I get nothing in return. My wife loves to cuddle me, texts me when I'm out & calls me so I know she loves me but she has gone off sex. We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc.
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This lady is so against having sex…….. nothing is going to change her mind.
If OP pulls this change off, he should write a book. I’d have thought he’d at least have gotten zombie-like appeasement sex by now….. nothing. 
Shes not just not wanting sex, she’s repulsed at the thought of it.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just need some advice please. My wife & I have been together 9 years & married 5 years. Sex to start with was amazing, regular & trying all sorts of things. Over the years that past by to just normal straight forward sex which I don't mind at all. I understand that the start of a relationship is always full of excitement. The problem has been over the last 18 months where we have had sex twice. I try to initiate things but I get nothing in return. My wife loves to cuddle me, texts me when I'm out & calls me so I know she loves me but she has gone off sex. We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc.
> 
> ...


As an example since fall, I’ve been called a Christian bi$)* and then two days before Christmas a C$!*. I don’t know if you were both calling each other names or her calling you names, ect. I have not recovered from this outburst as I was not returning fire in such a way. Also, what my husband was upset about wasn’t even something that warranted such action. It was ridiculous.

Those particular names he called me were a boundary for me that I’m not 💯 sure I can come back from completely. So you might want to start there. However my husband has went on with his life as if nothing happened. Expected me to as well. Emotionally he hurt me to my core and did not address it at all.

continuing to go without addressing this is death. I no longer initiate sex. I can’t, mentally or physically. When he asks or just comes groping me I go along but all the while I’m just waiting for it to end. It’s just an act he thinks he needs for his own release and noticing more. Very sad.

I often must admit I will get loud in a tiff if I’m not being allowed to speak or being cut off, ect. It’s very frustrating when each party doesn’t allow th other the proper respect to vent and work through things. Make sure you’re making that safe space.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess you aren't understanding what the point of the shocking interactions is....none of this is SUPPOSED TO fix your marriage. She is SUPPOSED TO be upset and jerked off her pedestal, that's the only way anything works.
> 
> You need to clearly understand -- THAT is your ONLY way to fix this, and it might not even work. But being nice to her while she treats you like crap and willfully denies your physical needs in your monogamous relationship WILL NOT change anything for you.
> 
> ...


I do understand. I can turn up the thermostat at anytime. If I go all out now yes I will get a reaction but it won't solve anything for us. It will be the reaction of shouting & panic which I do understand one day it may come down to that. Yes she may freak out & give me pity sex - not what I'm after though. I want her & me back on track how we used to be. If I need to try the outright shock treatment I will.

I've been asked out my a male mate of mine to a pub/live music event next weekend. I'm probably going to that which will shock her to leave her home alone on a Friday night. Will be even worse when I tell her where I'm going (to a packed pub in town full of women). I won't say the last part obviously but she will know it. Wonder what she will make of that & what reaction I will get? Any predictions?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> As an example since fall, I’ve been called a Christian bi$)* and then two days before Christmas a C$!*. I don’t know if you were both calling each other names or her calling you names, ect. I have not recovered from this outburst as I was not returning fire in such a way. Also, what my husband was upset about wasn’t even something that warranted such action. It was ridiculous.
> 
> Those particular names he called me were a boundary for me that I’m not 💯 sure I can come back from completely.  So you might want to start there. However my husband has went on with his life as if nothing happened. Expected me to as well. Emotionally he hurt me to my core and did not address it at all.
> 
> ...


You are harboring resentment toward your husband that you have stopped trying to work on. He doesn’t only want sex most likely. But since you’ve made it repulsed zombie sex, he’s probably not into it and yes, it’s just a physical release for him. You think he hasn’t noticed you don’t want him?
He’s noticed. 

This is not 100% on your husband. Luis it be you’re not trying to work out the problem, because you no longer want it fixed? Just divorce.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> As an example since fall, I’ve been called a Christian bi$)* and then two days before Christmas a C$!*. I don’t know if you were both calling each other names or her calling you names, ect. I have not recovered from this outburst as I was not returning fire in such a way. Also, what my husband was upset about wasn’t even something that warranted such action. It was ridiculous.
> 
> Those particular names he called me were a boundary for me that I’m not 💯 sure I can come back from completely. So you might want to start there. However my husband has went on with his life as if nothing happened. Expected me to as well. Emotionally he hurt me to my core and did not address it at all.
> 
> ...


Sounds a little like us however it is my wife calling me the names. It really doesn't affect me, sticks & stones and all that. To me I just see an adult not able to deal with a disagreement in a manner I would expect. Instead the handle it like a 12 year old in the playground. Something is not right that my wife & your husband instantly turn to name calling. Not sure how old your husband is but my wife is in her 40's....quite pathetic. Wrongly so I did react a couple of times & call her something back but nothing major. 

We are talking more & learning how to handle these problems better. Letting each other speak is key.

Sounds like your husband flies off the handle like my wife over nothing & then blames it on you. Baffling really. Do they know deep down they are in the wrong or do they really believe it's us?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are harboring resentment toward your husband that you have stopped trying to work on. He doesn’t only want sex most likely. But since you’ve made it repulsed zombie sex, he’s probably not into it and yes, it’s just a physical release for him. You think he hasn’t noticed you don’t want him?
> He’s noticed.
> 
> This is not 100% on your husband. Luis it be you’re not trying to work out the problem, because you no longer want it fixed? Just divorce.


Damn straight I’m harboring resentment and until he acknowledges the real elephant in the room I will continue to have these resentments as you call them. I call it a boundary that he’s not going to continue to cross. But your opinion is dually noted.

and he has noticed after almost six month of
My zombie sex as you call it. And guess what? He still comes and gets it anytime he feels. You go ahead and judge.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Wonder what she will make of that & what reaction I will get? Any predictions?


She going to accuse you of cheating or trying to find another woman, or some such.
Not caring about her feelings, yada, yada, yada
That‘s when you ask for her phone.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Damn straight I’m harboring resentment and until he acknowledges the real elephant in the room I will continue to have these resentments as you call them. I call it a boundary that he’s not going to continue to cross. But your opinion is dually noted.
> 
> and he has noticed after almost six month of
> My zombie sex as you call it. And guess what? He still comes and gets it anytime he feels. You go ahead and judge.


 Nobody is judging you. But you waiting for him to acknowledge………. I think that’s an error. Give him the opportunity to fix his end or leave him. He’s not entitled to your body.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’d ask for it today. Now. The reaction is the same either way.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Nobody is judging you. But you waiting for him to acknowledge………. I think that’s an error. Give him the opportunity to fix his end or leave him. He’s not entitled to your body.


My waiting is me giving him an opportunity. What he does with this time is proving what I know.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’d ask for it today. Now. The reaction is the same either way.


Yea, I agree. But OP has some scheme about waiting till she accuses him or whatever.
To minimize her reaction maybe? I don’t know.
Too many games for me.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Here's what's going to happen.

You're starting to go out (just like this pub event next Friday) without her. She's going to accuse you of meeting another woman at one of these events and accuse you of having an affair. I mean in her mind this wouldn't be a coincidence.

You start going out without her and now you're not wanting to cuddle or kiss her (once you start turning down the thermostat and refuse to do things for her or things she wants to do with you). She goes off on you because how dare you do this to her and this will not be a coincidence. NOPE!!

She will accuse you of having met someone else and this will be the reason for your threats of leaving and forcing her to have sex with you because you're obviously getting it from another woman.

Book it!!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

sideways said:


> Here's what's going to happen.
> 
> You're starting to go out (just like this pub event next Friday) without her. She's going to accuse you of meeting another woman at one of these events and accuse you of having an affair. I mean in her mind this wouldn't be a coincidence.
> 
> ...


And then he’s going to say: Hun, all you have to do is screw my brains out and I won’t go out tonight, nor the next, nor the next century.
He may be a genius.
But my suspicion is that she will respond with :
“I’m not being pressured or blackmailed for sex”, then huff up and say “go ahead and be with her”….. and OP will maybe, possibly, hopefully, see that she wants anything from him but sex, will spin every situation where he is somehow at fault and there’s a “reason” she’s denying him, and he will finally be able to pull the trigger on divorce. The love bug for a man is a much harder bug to pull off once they’re attached.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Yes I fully agree with all the replies. I will have 'met someone' and will be 'cheating'. I will at this point use the phone tactic.

As it happens she asked me today to put her phone on the side for her. She had just been on it as the phone was unlocked. I couldn't of viewed it as she was still around. I'm just stating to me that isn't the action of someone who is hiding something. Like I said I won't write it off but to me this isn't about cheating.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don’t think your wife is currently cheating. 18 months ago? Not sure.

She’s not worried because you have been well trained and she knows you wouldn’t snatch it and start looking, no offense.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> He is lowering the thermostat, so it takes time. But it’s an extreme situation, so I doubt it will work. I think scenario number 2 will happen, or maybe a mix of the two… duty sex whilst detaching, because of the child.


I don't see duty sex coming at all...I see Global Thermonuclear War.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't see duty sex coming at all...I see Global Thermonuclear War.


Perhaps so. This is what happens when people become incompatible. 

Review your boundary statements, brother. They are never more important than when she loses her **** or falsely accuses you of something. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Perhaps so. This is what happens when people become incompatible.
> 
> Review your boundary statements, brother. They are never more important than when she loses her **** or falsely accuses you of something.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Unfortunately, no one ever easily and happily abdicates their throne and gives up their power in their relationships.

And don't you believe that the longer he takes to shock her into reality, the more chances he is giving her to adjust and come up with a plan of counter attack?

Or to use your example, when he lowers the temperature gradually, she can adapt more easily and even has a chance to go find a coat that will enable her to wait him out, while feeling NO negative effects at all.

Can that happen?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> Unfortunately, no one ever easily and happily abdicates their throne and gives up their power in their relationships.
> 
> And don't you believe that the longer he takes to shock her into reality, the more chances he is giving her to adjust and come up with a plan of counter attack?
> 
> ...


I know from experience about changing the power dynamic. It took us 18 months for the reset.

I tend to agree with you that he needs to provoke a confrontation sooner rather than later, and the best way to do that is to turn the temperature below absolute zero.

That said, he is the one that has to walk this path...as opposed to the rest of us, who are sitting in the cheap seats. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Hey Someday, l am in the hospital recovering from back surgery this Saturday night. What are your plans?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't see duty sex coming at all...I see Global Thermonuclear War.


More likely the 3rd option… divorce. The OP has left it too late and I don’t think he can revert the situation. Sad, but it’s mostly his fault.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> I tend to agree with you that he needs to provoke a confrontation sooner rather than later, and the best way to do that is to turn the temperature below absolute zero.
> 
> That said, he is the one that has to walk this path...as opposed to the rest of us, who are sitting in the cheap seats.


The problem with him trying to provoke a response sooner rather than later is he is still a Babe In The Woods. She still completely has the upper hand and if she gets mad and puts her foot down in any manner, he will scurry right back to rubbing her feet while she makes him watch some stupid chick-show on TV. 

He starting to wake up but he is still whipped and still under her thumb. 

He is like Rocky in Rocky 3 when he went up against Mr T the first time - he is untrained, soft and out of shape and does not have right frame of mind. 

He doesn’t have the eye of the tiger yet. 

Like Rocky, he would take a whupping in the first round or so without landing a punch of his own. She is clearly the champion of this relationship and he is not a worthy contender yet. 

This 6 month plan of his is not to win her over for that ain’t gonna happen without professional MC and therapy. 

This 6 month plan is for HIM to get the eye of the tiger and get to his fighting weight and get his balls and his spine strengthened up to where he can look her in the eye and go toe to toe with her. 

She would disembowel him and eat his guts right in front of him if he tried to go up against her right now.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> The problem with him trying to provoke a response sooner rather than later is he is still a Babe In The Woods. She still completely has the upper hand and if she gets mad and puts her foot down in any manner, he will scurry right back to rubbing her feet while she makes him watch some stupid chick-show on TV.
> 
> He starting to wake up but he is still whipped and still under her thumb.
> 
> ...


You been binging movies tonight? All these Rocky references and descriptive...somethings...lol.

I think he might surprise you. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> The problem with him trying to provoke a response sooner rather than later is he is still a Babe In The Woods. She still completely has the upper hand and if she gets mad and puts her foot down in any manner, he will scurry right back to rubbing her feet while she makes him watch some stupid chick-show on TV.
> 
> He starting to wake up but he is still whipped and still under her thumb.
> 
> She would disembowel him and eat his guts right in front of him if he tried to go up against her right now.


One of the key strategies of Athol Kay’s Married Man Sex Life material is a guy has to build himself up physically, mentally, financially and socially before he can make any kind of serious demands or ultimatums or to make any real change in dynamics of relationship.

To put it bluntly, a guy has to build himself up and develop himself to where he is basically ok to simply walk away from the marriage and step into his new life without her up to being able to take up with younger and prettier women and have a more fun and entertaining social life. 

Once he gets himself to the point where he believes in his heart he can live a better life without her than with and he is ok with moving on, then he is in a position to start stating expectations and laying down boundaries and making ultimatums and having even a snowballs chance in hell of those expectations being met.

Right now he has been completely betatized and is her servant eunuch. 

It will take a matter of months for him to develop himself to where he can stand up to her and have the slightest chance of his expectations, boundaries and ultimatums met. 

And even then she may say no, in which case he is ready, willing and able to walk away, step in a new life and get with someone else.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> I think he might surprise you.


I’d love it if he does.

I hope I am wrong but I don’t see this situation as something that can be resolved with some red pill tricks and a night or two out with the buddies.

There are some deep seated fundamental flaws in the foundations of the relationship and good chance there are also some underlying mental health issues that are not being properly addressed. 

He’s not trained or equipped to solve either of those those. 

He has been codependent and enabling her for a long time. 

Right now all it would take to undo the last 3 weeks of effort is for her to get really mad at him and yell at him and threaten to leave him or threaten to tell his folks and friends that he is abusing her and pressuring her for sex and threaten to cut him off for good...... and he would be right back to giving her back rubs on the couch and doing extra dishes and laundry to make up for getting out of line. 

There’s not going to be a big break through here that suddenly changes her behavior or her esteem for him. 

He’s not going to hit one out of the ballpark with the bases loaded at the bottom of the 9th. 

It’s going to be a day in day out determination to sticking to a plan, performing all the small and seemingly insignificant daily tasks every day for months until there are any measurable and meaningful results. 

It’s like losing weight. You don’t fast for a day and run a marathon and wake up lean the next day. 

You follow a diet and exercise plan day in and day out do a long series of small tasks that in and of themselves seem insignificant and you never see the change from day to day.

But after weeks you may notice you feel better and have a little more energy in your step. You may notice your clothes fit a little looser. 

But you never see that change in a day. 

Like losing weight, you have to trust in the process. You have to work the daily diet and exercise and have faith in the plan. 

If you expect to run a marathon in a day and wake up skinny, you’ll be disappointed and throw in the towel. 

This is going to be a process, not an event.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I’d love it if he does.
> 
> I hope I am wrong but I don’t see this situation as something that can be resolved with some red pill tricks and a night or two out with the buddies.
> 
> ...


Perhaps so. Frankly, I was none of those things when I held my own line. 

He does not need to be equipped to deal with her psyche issues. 

He does not need to deal with the relationship issues...at least, not yet.

All he has to do is hold the line. 

And that starts with one simple, two letter word: NO.

Everything that comes after that is simply making it more fashionable. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> All he has to do is hold the line.
> 
> And that starts with one simple, two letter word: NO.


I agree in principle. 

But he is going to have to say no to a lot of things and will have to hold the line consistently for a long time. Is he capable of doing that yet??

What if she gets really mad? What if she huffs and puffs and threatens to tell his friends and family he is being abusive and threatening? What if she threatens to kick him out? What if she tells him she was going to have sex with him that night but he screwed it up and ruined the mood and now she feels pressured again? 

Is he going to be able to stand up to that and hold the line at this point???


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess you aren't understanding what the point of the shocking interactions is....none of this is SUPPOSED TO fix your marriage. She is SUPPOSED TO be upset and jerked off her pedestal, that's the only way anything works.
> 
> You need to clearly understand -- THAT is your ONLY way to fix this, and it might not even work. But being nice to her while she treats you like crap and willfully denies your physical needs in your monogamous relationship WILL NOT change anything for you.
> 
> ...


He’s afraid to hurt her feelings! Meanwhile she has NO problem hurting his feelings every single day for more than 1-1/2 years!

Stop worrying about hurting her. She has no intention of having sex with you. She will likely ONLY do it when she realizes you’ve filed for divorce! And then it’s only referred to as “manipulative sex”. 

She isn’t changing while she’s comfortable! And you are so afraid of HER being uncomfortable.

She holds ALL your power. It’s supposed to be YOUR power.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Perhaps so. Frankly, I was none of those things when I held my own line.
> 
> He does not need to be equipped to deal with her psyche issues.
> 
> ...


Anyone who has the strength and determination to be an MMA fighter HAS those things inside himself, whether he sees them there or not. That's probably the reason that you were successful, despite having a wife who was very hostile and entitled. You had strength that she recognized, even though you didn't.

The very reason you were able to hold that line is because you DID have "those things".


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> He’s afraid to hurt her feelings! Meanwhile she has NO problem hurting his feelings every single day for more than 1-1/2 years!
> 
> Stop worrying about hurting her. She has no intention of having sex with you. She will likely ONLY do it when she realizes you’ve filed for divorce! And then it’s only referred to as “manipulative sex”.
> 
> ...


I think we have a tendency to hold a nonsexual spouse as a villain that needs killin’. Think about if you were with someone you were no longer attracted to and there was a constant “I might have to do him” in back your mind. It would be something you would avoid as much as possible while trying to do everything to maintain the status quo. This is one of those points I always make about the girls being mentally tougher than the guys. They can maintain a livable situation like that much easier than the guys. She is more adaptable. The guys go off all butt hurt for years and years on end with all the … I can’t believe she doesn’t want me, but I love her, but but but but……

Dude …. She can live this out easily with no problem. If it is a problem for you either drop the bomb or GTFO.

It isn’t a conspiracy. It’s just a situation that for her is perfectly livable. She isn’t into you …… it really is that simple.

As @LisaDiane pointed out it takes a guy with iron will to pull off a turnaround.

Know thy self …..


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> I think we have a tendency to hold a nonsexual spouse as a villain that needs killin’. Think about if you were with someone you were no longer attracted to and there was a constant “I might have to do him” in back your mind. It would be something you would avoid as much as possible while trying to do everything to maintain the status quo. This is one of those points I always make about the girls being mentally tougher than the guys. They can maintain a livable situation like that much easier than the guys. She is more adaptable. The guys go off all butt hurt for years and years on end with all the … I can’t believe she doesn’t want me, but I love her, but but but but……
> 
> Dude …. She can live this out easily with no problem. If it is a problem for you either drop the bomb or GTFO.
> 
> ...


There’s much truth to what you are saying. But every female on the planet old enough to grow boobies know that sexuality is a key component and critical criteria for a man to be in a relationship/marriage. 

If she doesn’t want a sex with him, that is her choice and perogative, no one should be forced, coerced or pressured into doing something they do not want. 

But is it fair or even reasonable for someone to expect that their partner simply ignore and disregard that part of himself so that she can continue to receive the benefits of the relationship SHE wants.

Is that not completely selfish and exploitive and manipulative. 

She is perfectly able to dissolve the marriage as well if she does not want to engage in an activity that makes her uncomfortable and does not want to do. 

If you are knowingly denying your partner a key component of their happiness and well being so you can extract benefit to yourself - then IMHO you ARE the villain.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@somedayyouwillfindme, You keep saying that if you do such and such your wife will have a fit and it will get ugly. You are trying to do this as gently as possible to avoid confrontation, when confrontation is exactly what you need. Let her blow up. Let her get angry.

What will she be angry about? She will be angry because you have expectations in a marriage. She wants to maintain the status quo. She wants to be able to nurse her grudge and be a bitter, resentful woman about your response to something she caused. That is classic DARVO: Deny Accuse Reverse Victim and Offender. She is the one who went ballistic and you left, because she was not someone you wanted to be around and she was behaving like a spoiled child.

She needs to know that in no uncertain terms that you consider this to be her behaving badly and if she is angry that you are calling her on it, then too bad. If she can't work through that and if she refuses to be part of a healthy marriage, then that needs to be addressed, so you can decide what to do.

You have made clear that you are not okay with no sex. She told you that she is holding a grudge against you and that she doesn't want to have sex with you due to that. She has done nothing to resolve it. I don't think you need to keep this slow process. Your response to her comments is to slowly pull away. That is going to be misinterpreted and make matters worse.

When someone does what you wife has done recently, which is to say "too bad, I'm still mad," it is important to respond immediately, so the connection is clear. You did this, therefore, I am responding this way. Instead, you are working a slow plan in order to keep peace. The problem is that she is at peace. You are the one not at peace. You are enabling her to continue to treat you badly. The better response is something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way. If you aren't willing to have a healthy marriage and resolve your hurt feelings, I will leave you. I expect you to begin today." Then buy a book on divorce. Don't hide it. Start reading it. Decide what you're going to do. This is not an idle threat. It's real.

Another problem with not immediately responding is that she will not make the connection that you believe she is the one with the problem and you expect her to resolve it. She is deserting your marriage. She has friend zoned you.

What you are doing now is not going to be effective. It will only make things worse. You need to confront and then go cold or you will be wasting five months until filing for divorce.

Edit to add:
She will likely go ballistic, because it has been working for her. When you start, tell her, we can either have a reasonable conversation or not, but know this, if you become belligerent, I'm walking out and it will be your own fault. She needs to own her actions or nothing is ever going to change.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme, You keep saying that if you do such and such your wife will have a fit and it will get ugly. You are trying to do this as gently as possible to avoid confrontation, when confrontation is exactly what you need. Let her blow up. Let her get angry.
> 
> What will she be angry about? She will be angry because you have expectation in a marriage. She wants to maintain the status quo. She wants to be able to nurse her grudge and be a bitter, resentful woman your response to something she caused. That is classic DARVO: Deny Accuse Reverse Victim and Offender. She is the one who went ballistic and you left, because she was not someone you wanted to be around and she was behaving like a spoiled child.
> She needs to know that in no uncertain terms. This is her behaving badly and if she is angry that you are calling her on it, then too bad. If she can't work through that and if she refuses to be part of a healthy marriage, then that needs to be addressed, so you can decide what to do.
> ...


What you are saying is true. I do not disagree with anything you have said as a concept. 

But he isn't prepared or conditioned for that level of conflict yet. He has been to broken down and betatized over the years to stand up to that level of conflict. 

I'll go back to my Rocky III analogy above - he is not trained and conditioned to the point that he can withstand Mr T's aggression and assaults yet. He needs to go back to the old-school back alley gym and be trained by Apollo to get to his fighting weight and stamina in order to go the distance with her. 

If he goes for the fight now, he'll go down in the first round because she is bigger, stronger, meaner and has been working her plan from within her frame for a long time. He has just started to wake up and wipe the crust out of his eyes. 

The question we need to ask here is whether @somedayyouwillfindme is actually sitting on his hands doing nothing so as to avoid conflict? 

Or is he formulating his own game plan and training and conditioning program to get himself strengthened up to be able to take on her anger and hostility and manipulation and come out on top???

All battles are won or lost long before the first shot is fired.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't think he should fight. I think he should tell her that he's got something to say and if she throws a fit, he's leaving. Then he speaks his peace. Of course, she's going to throw a fit, so he's going to have to leave. Maybe he'll go back, if she admits her problem and immediately begins to make amends. Basically I think he needs to stay away until she repents. Give it the remaining five months and see if she cracks.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> @somedayyouwillfindme, You keep saying that if you do such and such your wife will have a fit and it will get ugly. You are trying to do this as gently as possible to avoid confrontation, when confrontation is exactly what you need. Let her blow up. Let her get angry.
> 
> What will she be angry about? She will be angry because you have expectations in a marriage. She wants to maintain the status quo. She wants to be able to nurse her grudge and be a bitter, resentful woman about your response to something she caused. That is classic DARVO: Deny Accuse Reverse Victim and Offender. She is the one who went ballistic and you left, because she was not someone you wanted to be around and she was behaving like a spoiled child.
> 
> ...


"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

In a nutshell, @Cynthia is advocating for you to stop allowing her to be comfortable while being the cause of your discomfort. 

In other words, you are still setting yourself on fire because you are scared she might get cold. 

Let her freeze, and see if she is willing to set HERSELF on fire to keep YOU warm. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> Anyone who has the strength and determination to be an MMA fighter HAS those things inside himself, whether he sees them there or not. That's probably the reason that you were successful, despite having a wife who was very hostile and entitled. You had strength that she recognized, even though you didn't.
> 
> The very reason you were able to hold that line is because you DID have "those things".


I appreciate the compliment, but this is an incredibly easy observation to make in hindsight. 

When I finally put my foot down, I was a scared boy in a grown man's body with an alcohol problem. I was afraid of my wife. 

If you would have told me in 2014 I could reset our dynamic to what it is today, I would have never believed you. 

We NEVER know how we react to being under fire until the shots start ringing. At that point, we either react (wrong) or respond (right).

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> I don't think he should fight. I think he should tell her that he's got something to say and if she throws a fit, he's leaving. Then he speaks his peace. Of course, she's going to throw a fit, so he's going to have to leave. Maybe he'll go back, if she admits her problem and immediately begins to make amends. Basically I think he needs to stay away until she repents. Give it the remaining five months and see if she cracks.


This is a great option too, and a way of avoiding all the counter-reactions...it's straight and to the point, and cuts through ALL the crap!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> I appreciate the compliment, but this is an incredibly easy observation to make in hindsight.
> 
> When I finally put my foot down, I was a scared boy in a grown man's body with an alcohol problem. I was afraid of my wife.
> 
> ...


Then you ARE amazing!!! Because most men (and women) don't have the strength to set goals and boundaries and find solutions and look at THEMSELVES honestly, without masks...and YOU DID. 

And now you are on here helping others too!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> I don't think he should fight. I think he should tell her that he's got something to say and if she throws a fit, he's leaving. Then he speaks his peace. Of course, she's going to throw a fit, so he's going to have to leave. Maybe he'll go back, if she admits her problem and immediately begins to make amends. Basically I think he needs to stay away until she repents. Give it the remaining five months and see if she cracks.


Agreed. 

But what you are saying here is essentially an ultimatum. And an ultimatum that could forseeably end with the nuclear option. 

But I don't think he's ready to do that yet. I don't think he is actually in the position or mindset to actually carry that out yet. At this exact moment, I think he would crumble and capitulate and go right back to couch-cuddling the first time she gets mad and yells at him. 

But more importantly, I don't think HE thinks is ready for that yet. 

I hope I am right here, but I think what he is doing with this long game is building up his own sense of self and sense of worth and getting the backbone and giblets to be able to stand up to her and her outbursts and nuttiness. 

At least I hope that is the case. 

What you and Farside are saying is accurate. But to do that, a guy has to be in a position where he is actually strong and capable enough to stand up to her anger and hostility and he has to have the giblets to actually hold her feet to fire consistently despite all her hostility and counterattacks and ultimately he has to be able to actually walk the walk and follow through. 

This isn't something where you have one conversation or make one threat and then all is well. This is a process, not an event. 

He has work to do on himself before he can take on that process.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Another problem with not immediately responding is that she will not make the connection that you believe she is the one with the problem and you expect her to resolve it. She is deserting your marriage. She has friend zoned you.
> 
> What you are doing now is not going to be effective. It will only make things worse. You need to confront and then go cold or you will be wasting five months until filing for divorce.


This is a terrific point, and I wish someone had told me this 8 years ago!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm going to backtrack a bit and add something that I have seen in real life. 

If he does what he is being coached to do here. And if he does what he says he is going to do and he actually starts walking the walk ....... this ain't gonna take 6 months to come to a head. 

Right now he is so beat down and betatized that it seems insurmountable to him. He probably thinks he does need 6 months to effect a change. 

But if he starts following the advice here and if he starts walking the walking and taking steps for himself and his own self interests,,, he's going to start gaining momentum. He's going to start seeing some changes in himself and in his mindset. He's going to start gaining some confidence and realizing that he can exist without her. 

That's not going to happen in a day. But at some point whether that be a few more weeks or even a month or so, he's going to look back, see what he's gone through, and see where he has come, and he will say "Fck this!!" 

As long as he doesn't capitulate or slink back into his beta ways, this is not going to be a 6 month process. He may think it is at the moment. But once he gains some ground and gets his balls back,, it ain't gonna be 6 months.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Until he actually makes his mind up to leave, there is no chance to fix this. Probably less than 1% anyway. People don’t change unless they want to


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Comfortable people don't change. Why would they. Stop making it your job to make her comfortable.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Until he actually makes his mind up to leave, there is no chance to fix this. Probably less than 1% anyway. People don’t change unless they want to





Cynthia said:


> Comfortable people don't change. Why would they. Stop making it your job to make her comfortable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Correct. 

But remember HE has also been comfortable. He has been comfortable, compliant and content with couch cuddling and getting texts during the day. 

He has gone a year and a half without saying a peep. He is also 50% accountable for the status quo because he didn't do anything to challenge it. 

In order for him to illicit any kind of change, he is going to have to become uncomfortable and not content himself.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

misquote


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

A blowup is coming Friday.
Will it set off a chain reaction or be contained?
I think contained, but the wheels are in motion at that point.
4 weeks tops till we go nuclear, and it will be at OP’s pace.
I‘d be shocked if he acted out of character (blew it up today for example).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If he actually goes through with pulling away and doing his own thing more, It will also be kind of diagnostic. 

He's saying she is going to react with anger and accusations of him cheating. Assuming she still rejects him sexually, I think her reacting with anger and accusations, that will indicate she still wants him to be a domestic servant and provider and feels threatened that her gravy train isn't complying with her wishes. She will try to smack him back in line and discourage him from trying that again. 

If she's ok with it and doesn't say a word and doesn't appear to have any issue with it all, then she is completely disconnected and and enjoys the peace and quiet of not having him around. And she also feels confident that he either has no inclination to get with any other women or does not have the ability to do so if he did want to.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If she's ok with it and doesn't say a word and doesn't appear to have any issue with it all


That’s a scenario nobody expects. Do you? Or just identifying the potential? According to OP she’s hyper-jealous when they go the store! I’m like >90% against this scenario happening. Which continues to beg the question ‘why not this scenario?’. Invariably leads to the ‘there’s someone else’ camp, mostly due to lack of understanding of mental health issues.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> That’s a scenario nobody expects. Do you? Or just identifying the potential? According to OP she’s hyper-jealous when they go the store! I’m like >90% against this scenario happening. Which continues to beg the question ‘why not this scenario?’. Invariably leads to the ‘there’s someone else’ camp, mostly due to lack of understanding of mental health issues.


She's implicating herself, when she gets jealous of him even looking at another woman.
She knows that she's denying him as her husband.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> That’s a scenario nobody expects. Do you? Or just identifying the potential? According to OP she’s hyper-jealous when they go the store! I’m like >90% against this scenario happening. Which continues to beg the question ‘why not this scenario?’. Invariably leads to the ‘there’s someone else’ camp, mostly due to lack of understanding of mental health issues.


I'm not really expecting anything specifically, just throwing out potential scenarios. 

While hyper jealousy can be a red flag of cheating or at least a cheating heart, it is also sign of significant insecurity. 

And insecurity isn't always an irrational feeling,, sometimes it's legit. She knows she has issues. She knows he is not satisfied. She knows she is inadequate and that if she doesn't start stepping up that she is going to get flushed...

But, her mental/emotional/personality issues are not letting her step up and behave in a mature and healthy manner, so she frets and counts down to the inevitable.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not really expecting anything specifically, just throwing out potential scenarios.
> 
> While hyper jealousy can be a red flag of cheating or at least a cheating heart, it is also sign of significant insecurity.
> 
> ...


All the while hoping the situation will simply go away. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Is she really fretting? Over what? Nothing has changed in her life.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

I spent the last ten years of a 30-year marriage completely sexless. I did it for my kids. It turns out my ex-wife got an STD from her third affair that wasn't easily concealed and she wouldn't have sex with me. At the time, I had no clue she was unfaithful. We're divorced, I'm remarried to an amazing woman, and we're having sex five to six times a week. I now realize that I lost love for my ex-wife and that was directly linked to our lack of intimacy. She just hoped the issue of sex would simply go away.

I stayed for my children because I came from a broken family without my father's involvement, and I was not going to be that guy. I don't regret it because of my career it was entirely possible that I'd rarely get to see my kids if we divorced. They all turned out great (so far), I got a "new" kid in the process, and I am sharing my life with a woman that I adore. Take from that what you will, because if someone told me to leave all those years ago, I would've thought them crazy because I held out hope to be intimate again with the woman I loved at the time. My life is so much better now.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

This isn’t that hard. If she’s unwilling to have sex with him she should at least be capable of telling him that. 

And if she gets mad - it’s because she has no intention of having sex with him. That’s the only reason she would throw a fit = if she has him requesting what she knows she isn’t going to deliver.

So you tell her before you ask… if you intend to throw a fit - I will make the conclusion that you don’t expect to discuss this big problem enough to resolve this - so do NOT roadblock this conversation or I’ll consider this the end.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ok. One of the reasons I am holding back going full blast at present is the more I see her the more I think she is close to a breakdown. Especially based off this weekend. She just isn't functioning & she is letting everything in her life get to her. Not just our side of things but work related things & money worries. Is that technically my problem? - no. Does it excuse the past 18 months? - absolutely not. I openly stated I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first breached the subject & not the last 1.5 years years though. 

We were out at the weekend at the arcades with our son & all was well until an attractive woman started playing on the game next to us. She was with her partner but still my wife couldn't handle it. I could see the signs of her anxiety kicking in. She made a few sarcastic comments to me about me enjoying the view etc & then said she was going to wait out in the car. We were due to leave in 20 minutes anyway but she did go out to the car. She just couldn't deal with the situation & ran. As I've said before I know how my wife will react & I was proven right here again. So I still know for our marriage it is best for me to play the long game. It's not me not having the guts it's me giving myself the best opportunity to turn this round to how it used to be. The weekend was down to her insecurities & lack of confidence in her looks which is ridiculous as she is an attractive woman. But something has always go to her about how she views her body/looks which I think goes back to her childhood with her father. She was just so on edge all weekend. 

Me pushing her at present could tip her over the edge based off what I've seen this weekend. This weekend hasn't changed anything for me - I was playing the long game anyway. As @oldshirt would put it - in my head I'm Rocky but I'm only in the opening rounds. If I need to go for the knockout it won't be yet. In the meantime I'm focusing on me - out tomorrow night & (hopefully) I'm out on Saturday if the evening goes ahead as planned. Again going back to a couple of previous comments I can tell you what her reaction will be - she will hate me going out & will be worried all night. I will get a few texts come through, some sarcastic. They won't be coming from her as sarcastic they are coming from her in fear - fear I will cheat, fear that I will be talking to other women etc. She won't like the place to herself or being home alone at all it will be the complete opposite.

We did talk last night & we are going to try to make her more at ease regarding her job searching today with a phone call. I won't go into it but if I can get that stress off her shoulders that is a big thing. I know she has been massively stressed for a few months & it's just got worse to the point it's now so obviously affecting her badly. That stress coincided with this job side of things so it's definitely linked. We will be trying to get rid of that stress today with a phone call. Let's see what happens......


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Ya ok, you keep convincing yourself - I can’t see it the way you see it - and I am an old woman. An old woman who thoroughly understands that she gets the fact that a woman holds all the power between her legs.

But instead of using that power to nurture and solidify your marriage she is manipulating her power for a negative outcome - including being so insecure about strangers at an arcade. She’s insecure because she fully understands she isn’t taking care of your basic needs at home! And she should be ashamed of the way she is participating within the relationship. 

You make every excuse imaginable for her to NOT change. If you were a guy that was strong within this marriage - it wouldn’t be this way to begin with. But you are being way too weak to a wife that’s seriously inadequate about her marriage vows.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I was going to say that yet again you pander her comfort but then again you say you are going to go out for a night. I believe if you don’t go out that night and do it fully on your terms then you are only taking a step backwards.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Ok. One of the reasons I am holding back going full blast at present is the more I see her the more I think she is close to a breakdown. Especially based off this weekend. She just isn't functioning & she is letting everything in her life get to her. Not just our side of things but work related things & money worries. Is that technically my problem? - no. Does it excuse the past 18 months? - absolutely not. I openly stated I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first breached the subject & not the last 1.5 years years though.
> 
> We were out at the weekend at the arcades with our son & all was well until an attractive woman started playing on the game next to us. She was with her partner but still my wife couldn't handle it. I could see the signs of her anxiety kicking in. She made a few sarcastic comments to me about me enjoying the view etc & then said she was going to wait out in the car. We were due to leave in 20 minutes anyway but she did go out to the car. She just couldn't deal with the situation & ran. As I've said before I know how my wife will react & I was proven right here again. So I still know for our marriage it is best for me to play the long game. It's not me not having the guts it's me giving myself the best opportunity to turn this round to how it used to be. The weekend was down to her insecurities & lack of confidence in her looks which is ridiculous as she is an attractive woman. But something has always go to her about how she views her body/looks which I think goes back to her childhood with her father. She was just so on edge all weekend.
> 
> ...


I think you are misinterpreting and not getting the point I was trying to make in some of my recent posts. 

The “long game” as you put it, is not for her or her comforts. It is for YOU to wake up and come to terms with the fact she has serious problems that need professional help, and YOU need to get your balls back and get strengthened up and get the proper mindset so you can stand up to her and not cowtow to her anger and manipulations. 

You can’t ‘nice’ her into desiring you and having a happy and healthy marriage with you. 

She has emotional and potential mental problems. Nice doesn’t fix that.

You have serious problems in your marriage. Nice definitely doesn’t fix that.

Strength and determination and boundaries are the only things that will keep your head above water here.

If you are determined to play out this long game you keep talking about, the objective of that has to be to use that time to build your own strength, determination and mindset. And to get your ducks in a row in preparation divorcing her and moving on with your own life if she doesn’t straighten up. 

Otherwise as the others are saying, you are just wasting more time.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Ok. One of the reasons I am holding back going full blast at present is the more I see her the more I think she is close to a breakdown. Especially based off this weekend. She just isn't functioning & she is letting everything in her life get to her. Not just our side of things but work related things & money worries. Is that technically my problem? - no. Does it excuse the past 18 months? - absolutely not. I openly stated I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first breached the subject & not the last 1.5 years years though.
> 
> We were out at the weekend at the arcades with our son & all was well until an attractive woman started playing on the game next to us. She was with her partner but still my wife couldn't handle it. I could see the signs of her anxiety kicking in. She made a few sarcastic comments to me about me enjoying the view etc & then said she was going to wait out in the car. We were due to leave in 20 minutes anyway but she did go out to the car. She just couldn't deal with the situation & ran. As I've said before I know how my wife will react & I was proven right here again. So I still know for our marriage it is best for me to play the long game. It's not me not having the guts it's me giving myself the best opportunity to turn this round to how it used to be. The weekend was down to her insecurities & lack of confidence in her looks which is ridiculous as she is an attractive woman. But something has always go to her about how she views her body/looks which I think goes back to her childhood with her father. She was just so on edge all weekend.
> 
> ...


You’re not responsible for any of this anxiety!! Don’t you see what is happening here? You have given her no actual reason to assume infidelity, she knows she is the problem! SHE holds the key to her problem.

You’re not in a place where you’re putting responsibilities and obligations back to HER.

You are feeling worried about her mental health. Not your own (no sex for so long, and 18 months can’t even approach her). You have sympathy for her feelings. Have sympathy for yourself. You aren’t even cheating or thinking about another women, she is all you think about. You feel guilty. She should feel guilty. She’s angry at you because she won’t have sex. You’re not angry because you’re not having sex.

And you’re still not having sex, and you’re worried about her having a breakdown.

Let me break it down - if she’s so worried about you cheating… why doesn’t she have sex with you, realise what she’ll lose, and see you as an attractive option (she KNOWS you’re an attractive option for someone else!)

You have to put some of those feelings back to her.

I’ve seen the same thing happen to men who married a woman they didn’t love. A poster mentioned the reverse scenario, married a woman he didn’t love, she is forced to give up her job, raise kids, cook clean and have lots of sex. He takes her nowhere, yells at her, puts her down. But the mere THOUGHT of some man taking her out to dinner, or complementing her appearance ( and believe me the poor women looks her absolute best to keep that beast around, because he’s cut her off from anyone or anything that might allow her to see what good marriages are made of) brings out a rage that is terrifying.

She is not insecure about her body or her looks that is absolute garbage!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I am focusing on me don't think I'm not. As explained the other day I was sorting financial things out putting my money in an account where should we divorce she will struggle to get to or even know I have. I am planning. I'm just not updating on here about that side of things. I'm out tomorrow. I'm out Saturday (only reason I won't is if my mate cancels on me).

I'm working on my side of things just as much as our marriage side of things I'm just not updating all the details here.

She knows how I feel & I know it is getting to her. I know it is cranking up her anxiety. I'm seeing it with my own eyes that what I said over the past 2 weeks is getting to her.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

It’s getting to her, but not getting through to her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Luckylucky said:


> Let me break it down - if she’s so worried about you cheating… why doesn’t she have sex with you


Because she has mental issues or a mental block. Having been in a similar situation, I can only tell you that being pushy doesn't work. He has to be patient and at the same time encourage her to seek professional help. Only when her mental issues are resolved, they will be able to have a normal marriage again. This might take many months, so it's up to the OP to decide if he is prepared to stay and wait even longer or give up. I would say that, if the wife doesn't agree to go to therapy, that would be a deal-breaker for me.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> It’s getting to her, but not getting through to her.


She doesn't think he's serious, yet.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> She doesn't think he's serious, yet.


The OP's approach is wrong though, to a certain extent. He keeps talking about her anxiety and mental issues, but NOTHING has been done to solve the issues or at least tackle them. If you are anxious and your husband starts pulling the rug from under your feet, what do you think is going to happen? She needs professional help, and she needs to feel safe, not threatened.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The OP's approach is wrong though, to a certain extent. He keeps talking about her anxiety and mental issues, but NOTHING has been done to solve the issues or at least tackle them. If you are anxious and your husband starts pulling the rug from under your feet, what do you think is going to happen? She needs professional help, and she needs to feel safe, not threatened.


I agree that a different approach is needed. She might be more inclined to listen if she understood that he feels unloved when she isn't willing to touch him.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> I agree that a different approach is needed. She might be more inclined to listen if she understood that he feels unloved when she isn't willing to touch him.


Well, she is willing to "touch" him , as in "cuddles"...  but threats or even lowering the thermostat are not going to work. The mistake I made with my wife (granted - I didn't know how serious her issues were) was to detach, doing the 180. A person with anxiety or mental issues needs protection and reassurance, not threats. The wife will feel abandoned and that will make things even worse.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Well, she is willing to "touch" him , as in "cuddles"...  but threats or even lowering the thermostat are not going to work. The mistake I made with my wife (granted - I didn't know how serious her issues were) was to detach, doing the 180. A person with anxiety or mental issues needs protection and reassurance, not threats. The wife will feel abandoned and that will make things even worse.


You can see why I'm confused! I've got half the people on here saying detach as I'm making it too easy for her & the other half saying it will make her worse. I don't know which way to turn lol. I always have & I still am leaning to towards the soft approach as you said. Maybe you have to have lived with someone like this to fully appreciate what it's like. It's not as easy as just go completely cold on her & threaten her. I've said that all along, that won't lead to a good outcome. I do understand however why people are saying well you've taken the soft approach for 18 months and look where you are. My argument would be I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first brought it up. As some have rightly said - that 1st 18 months was 50% my fault as I could have tackled the problem sooner. I own that mistake but can't do a thing about it so I'm focusing on 2 weeks ago onwards.

Can I ask, when you said you didn't realise how serious your wifes problems were - how bad were they?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Well, she is willing to "touch" him , as in "cuddles"...  but threats or even lowering the thermostat are not going to work. The mistake I made with my wife (granted - I didn't know how serious her issues were) was to detach, doing the 180. A person with anxiety or mental issues needs protection and reassurance, not threats. The wife will feel abandoned and that will make things even worse.


In fairness, NONE OF US know if the thermostat will work for certain or not. Claiming otherwise, as you did in the above post, is pure projection.

Her anxiety is up. Well, it SHOULD be up. She is falling short...and she knows it. 

What many of you are failing to see is it is ALREADY WORKING. Remember...anger is a secondary emotion of fear and/or hurt. Anxiety is also a secondary emotion...of FEAR. 

And remember: the outcome will either be a return to a sexual relationship with her, or the ending of their union. The measure of success for this process is achievement of either of those two outcomes, not just a return to a sexual relationship with her, as was stated at the outset.

This is part of the process. 



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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> In fairness, NONE OF US know if the thermostat will work for certain or not. Claiming otherwise, as you did in the above post, is pure projection.
> 
> Her anxiety is up. Well, it SHOULD be up. She is falling short...and she knows it.
> 
> ...


I agree. She cannot un-hear what I said to her. She is not a stupid person either so I know those words & the manner in which I said them are swirling around her brain constantly. I've seen enough of her to know how her/this works to a fair level. Her anxiety is up all over the place which I know factually I'm a big part of that. I have to find a fine line without going too far too soon. At present it's holding back on initiating anything other than a kiss or cuddle here & there, taking much longer to respond to her text messages, coming home later from work, going out more. All these little things are noted by her & they are adding up in her head. This way nothing too much is changing but it IS changing. 

You're spot on I think. She is living in fear at the moment big time. I feel I am slowly turning the power round to me. Others obviously disagree & think she is walking all over me. I have to stick to what I think will work though.

I used the analogy in the post right near the beginning - put a toad straight into a bowl of boiling hot water & he will panic and jump straight out to then run away......put him in cool water & gradually turn the heat up - he won't run off but the outcome will be the same - he's in boiling water.

This is a long process. I'm well aware of it. NOTHING is going to change drastically for a while.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> You can see why I'm confused! I've got half the people on here saying detach as I'm making it too easy for her & the other half saying it will make her worse. I don't know which way to turn lol. I always have & I still am leaning to towards the soft approach as you said. Maybe you have to have lived with someone like this to fully appreciate what it's like. It's not as easy as just go completely cold on her & threaten her. I've said that all along, that won't lead to a good outcome. I do understand however why people are saying well you've taken the soft approach for 18 months and look where you are. My argument would be I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first brought it up. As some have rightly said - that 1st 18 months was 50% my fault as I could have tackled the problem sooner. I own that mistake but can't do a thing about it so I'm focusing on 2 weeks ago onwards.
> 
> Can I ask, when you said you didn't realise how serious your wifes problems were - how bad were they?


She has "pure O" OCD... although some psychiatrists don't believe it really exists (but it's just matter of definitions), it's a form of OCD were you get obsessive thoughts - which can be catastrophic in nature, like my wife's - but you don't act on them. Also, as I found out later when I looked into it, pure O people tend to hide their issues and can't talk about it. Their mind is occupied by these thoughts and don't have room for much else. She also suffers from anxiety and depression and is totally conflict-avoidant. So, pretty bad I would say. I did not know the extent of the issues, so I did the 180 after she started the anti-depressants and our sex life tanked. But it wasn't really her fault. I threatened divorce if she didn't go to therapy. She said yes and then she didn't. She restarted our sex life whilst detaching from me. Then she dumped me as empty-nesters, blaming it on her menopause, etc... All in all a total disaster.

My point is: I think you need to establish what's really wrong with her, because otherwise you won't be able to take the correct approach and decisions.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> She has "pure O" OCD... although some psychiatrists don't believe it really exists (but it's just matter of definitions), it's a form of OCD were you get obsessive thoughts - which can be catastrophic in nature, like my wife's - but you don't act on them. Also, as I found out later when I looked into it, pure O people tend to hide their issues and can't talk about it. Their mind is occupied by these thoughts and don't have room for much else. She also suffers from anxiety and depression and is totally conflict-avoidant. So, pretty bad I would say. I did not know the extent of the issues, so I did the 180 after she started the anti-depressants and our sex life tanked. But it wasn't really her fault. I threatened divorce if she didn't go to therapy. She said yes and then she didn't. She restarted our sex life whilst detaching from me. Then she dumped me as empty-nesters, blaming it on her menopause, etc... All in all a total disaster.
> 
> My point is: I think you need to establish what's really wrong with her, because otherwise you won't be able to take the correct approach and decisions.


Her mental health is not his responsibility. It is his responsibility to encourage her to seek help, and to provide an environment in which she wants to seek help herself.

Him assuming responsibility for her mental health is codependency.



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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> In fairness, NONE OF US know if the thermostat will work for certain or not. Claiming otherwise, as you did in the above post, is pure projection.
> 
> Her anxiety is up. Well, it SHOULD be up. She is falling short...and she knows it.
> 
> ...


I disagree. You are downplaying her mental issues. The end result might be divorce at the end of the day, but you can't treat an anxious person in the same way. Of course she is falling short, but the solution is not to increase her anxiety.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Her mental health is not his responsibility. It is his responsibility to encourage her to seek help, and to provide an environment in which she wants to seek help herself.
> 
> Him assuming responsibility for her mental health is codependency.
> 
> ...


This is what I'm advocating. To encourage her to seek professional help. I never said he was his responsibility. They both need to work together on this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I disagree. You are downplaying her mental issues. The end result might be divorce at the end of the day, but you can't treat an anxious person in the same way. Of course she is falling short, but the solution is not to increase her anxiety.


My wife is on medication for anxiety and depression, and had been for about 5 years before I began to lower the thermostat on her.

Tell me again that you can't turn the thermostat down on an anxious person.

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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> You can see why I'm confused! I've got half the people on here saying detach as I'm making it too easy for her & the other half saying it will make her worse. I don't know which way to turn lol. I always have & I still am leaning to towards the soft approach as you said. Maybe you have to have lived with someone like this to fully appreciate what it's like. It's not as easy as just go completely cold on her & threaten her. I've said that all along, that won't lead to a good outcome. I do understand however why people are saying well you've taken the soft approach for 18 months and look where you are. My argument would be I am basing this on 2 weeks ago when I first brought it up. As some have rightly said - that 1st 18 months was 50% my fault as I could have tackled the problem sooner. I own that mistake but can't do a thing about it so I'm focusing on 2 weeks ago onwards.
> 
> Can I ask, when you said you didn't realise how serious your wifes problems were - how bad were they?


Its not half, there is only one person saying it will make her worse.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Its not half, there is only one person saying it will make her worse.


No if you go & read some of the other pages of this post there have been a few who have said to detach.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> My wife is on medication for anxiety and depression, and had been for about 5 years before I began to lower the thermostat on her.
> 
> Tell me again that you can't turn the thermostat down on an anxious person.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I guess it depends on the degree of the issue. I'm glad it worked for you. It didn't for me.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> She has "pure O" OCD... although some psychiatrists don't believe it really exists (but it's just matter of definitions), it's a form of OCD were you get obsessive thoughts - which can be catastrophic in nature, like my wife's - but you don't act on them. Also, as I found out later when I looked into it, pure O people tend to hide their issues and can't talk about it. Their mind is occupied by these thoughts and don't have room for much else. She also suffers from anxiety and depression and is totally conflict-avoidant. So, pretty bad I would say. I did not know the extent of the issues, so I did the 180 after she started the anti-depressants and our sex life tanked. But it wasn't really her fault. I threatened divorce if she didn't go to therapy. She said yes and then she didn't. She restarted our sex life whilst detaching from me. Then she dumped me as empty-nesters, blaming it on her menopause, etc... All in all a total disaster.
> 
> My point is: I think you need to establish what's really wrong with her, because otherwise you won't be able to take the correct approach and decisions.


Sounds like my wife a fair amount but she doesn't avoid conflict. Quite the opposite she seems to create it on purpose to me. Could be attention seeking but doubt it. I honestly think it's an illness. I know she plays things over & over in her head. Where most people would leave something she won't. Yes it's still there for the majority of us but we crack on with life much quicker than she does.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She is living in fear at the moment big time. I feel I am slowly turning the power round to me.


Do you really want your wife to give you sex because she is afraid you will leave her? You - both together - need to find out what the best way to proceed is. Have you talked to her about looking for professional help?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I guess it depends on the degree of the issue. I'm glad it worked for you. It didn't for me.


This is a reasonable point.

That said, the reason it didn't work for you is because you did not have outcome independence. That isn't your wife's fault. That's your fault.

What isn't reasonable is telling him emphatically that it will not work for him. 

So instead of honestly advising him on why it didn't work for you, you instead insist on telling him why it won't work for him simply because it did not work for you.

How fair is that?

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If it turns out she really is a loon then that’s just yet another reason to GTFO.

waste of time ……


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> This is a reasonable point.
> 
> That said, the reason it didn't work for you is *because you did not have outcome independence*. That isn't your wife's fault. That's your fault.
> 
> ...


Regarding the bolded, you don't know all the details, so I can tell you that's not the case. We were divorcing.

You are saying it's not fair I keep telling him it won't work because it didn't work for me... but you are advising him to do something because it worked for you...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I disagree. You are downplaying her mental issues. The end result might be divorce at the end of the day, but you can't treat an anxious person in the same way. Of course she is falling short, but the solution is not to increase her anxiety.


Yes but both you and @somedayyouwillfindme need to understand that not only is divorce a legitimate option, it may be the BEST option.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> If it turns out she really is a loon then that’s just yet another reason to GTFO.
> 
> waste of time ……


Yes.

He is playing a defensive game in trying to prevent divorce. 

But you can’t win by only playing defense and divorce may be his best option here. 

It at least needs to be on the table with the same consideration as all other options.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Her mental health is not his responsibility. It is his responsibility to encourage her to seek help, and to provide an environment in which she wants to seek help herself.
> 
> Him assuming responsibility for her mental health is codependency.
> 
> ...


This times a million. 

Guess what? She will probably fall apart during the divorce. Guess what again? Most everyone does. It's a major life change. It's too bad, but that's the way it is. You aren't her parent, she's not a child, at a certain point you just need to charge ahead and _let the adult that she is figure out her own life_.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Instead of "confronting her" or laying down an "ultimatum", how about just sitting her down and explaining where you're at.

You say she's NOT stupid. Ok then, if that's the case, then she'll realize that what's been going on for the past nineteen months isn't normal for ANY married couple. It's important for her to cuddle and kiss, great, you understand this and thus why you do it because you're not two friends living together. NOPE. You're man and wife and you want her needs to be met and for her to be happy.

With that said, it's just as important to you to get your needs met as well, and that has NOT been happening for the past nineteen months now. You've told her this many times (assuming you have). And yet there's been no progress to this.

She's obviously not understanding how important this is to you. So much so, that from your perspective your marriage is on life support.

The way I see it there's three options here.
1) she starts having sex with you which will show you she not only understands how important this is to you but she's going to do something about it because she loves you and wants your needs to be met.

2) if there truly is something wrong with her then she needs to get on the phone and make a Dr appt IMMEDIATELY to get to the bottom of what's going on. She does this because she understands that whatever is going on with her has put her marriage on life support and continuing down the same path of ignoring it, doing nothing about it, and she's going to show you by her actions that she's going to fight for you and your relationship.

3) if she's not willing to do option one or two then it's VERY obvious that neither you or your marriage is important to her and if that's the case what's the point of being married to one another?? That if she wants to continue doing neither option one or two that she can continue to do so but it will no longer be as man and wife.

This is NOT a threat or a confrontation.....far from it!! It's a man going to his partner and speaking from his heart and if she truly does love him she'll not just hear what he's saying but she'll desperately want to do something about it IMMEDIATELY.

Where's this going?
Well who knows because it's VERY clear that OP is an enabler and codependent. I said it before and I'll say it again you can NOT change what you won't confront and OP you have chosen for the past nineteen months to not confront this.

If this really is important to you than you'll stop making excuse after excuse and you'll sit her down and explain where you're at. Who cares if she blows up at you or accuses you of having an affair (which she will).

There's TWO people in your marriage (not one) and one of you is miserable and it's ALL because one partner only cares about herself and her needs which is called being SELFISH.

You say she's smart, well ok then she'll truly grasp that her marriage is about to end and if it's really important to her she'll take action immediately. If she doesn't then there's your answer right there which should make your decision VERY clear to terminate your marriage.

You know why you haven't done anything yet?

Because of fear.

Yep FEAR!!

I think deep down you know in your heart that your wife isn't going to change or to try to see if there's something wrong with her which will ultimately force your hand to end the marriage and you're putting this off because you're sucking on the hopium pipe that something will miraculously change.

News flash OP, it's been NINETEEN months, nothing is going to change until you have the courage to confront this.

Going out with a friend, or not cuddling with her, or moving $ to a bank account is NOT confronting this.

It's NOT like you're asking your wife to do something that she's not able to do. You said previously that your sex life was good. Would you have married her if you knew this would be a marriage with no sex....just cuddling and a kiss here and there? Probably not, right?

She has it in her to meet your needs but she is CHOOSING not to.

One thing I see in your thread (or shall I say NOT see) is anger. I see frustration and helplessness but never do I see any anger from you. Maybe it might behoove you to get angry as this might be what you need to stop enabling her and to stop making excuses for her and to take action because you have enough self respect to stand up for yourself.

It's all about choices OP.

Look at the choices you've made and look at the choices your wife has made. How's this working out for you?

There's NEVER going to be the perfect time to sit her down and talk to her. Just do it. The sooner you do it you'll know what your next step is.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She might just go on after divorce and find someone she is wild about and the sexual interest is never an issue. Women can be different for different guys and maybe she just doesn’t have the right one for her sexuality…. if she has any.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sideways said:


> Because of fear.


And a child.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> And a child.


Sure, but also keep in mind the child is hers, not his.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Sure, but also keep in mind the child is hers, not his.


Is he? I think the child is his too...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

sideways said:


> Instead of "confronting her" or laying down an "ultimatum", how about just sitting her down and explaining where you're at.
> 
> You say she's NOT stupid. Ok then, if that's the case, then she'll realize that what's been going on for the past nineteen months isn't normal for ANY married couple. It's important for her to cuddle and kiss, great, you understand this and thus why you do it because you're not two friends living together. NOPE. You're man and wife and you want her needs to be met and for her to be happy.
> 
> ...


QFT
Great post.
Stop being too scared to lay it out, give her the opportunity to fix it, explain in a loving way how hard it will be to leave when you love her, but just don’t feel you have a real marriage, and if she doesn’t fix it you’re going to divorce her.

The way you’re going about this, constantly agonizing over her comfort and sanity (excuses to do nothing) and then supposedly divorcing after 6 months (every person on here knows you’re not gonna do that no matter what) is not the honorable or fair way to do things.

You need to lay it all out and ifshe doesn’t start fixing it (and yeah, sex tonight is just a damn start, duty sex or not), then you file for divorce and she understands why and doesn’t feel blindsided.

In my opinion, you have NOT been forthright with your wife on how serious the sexless thing is, or she’d have made an attempt to change by having sex with you.

you are obviously going to procrastinate the rest of your life for a thousand reasons abd stay in a sexless marriage that doesn’t fulfill you for YEARS. It’s you’re life. You can.
I’m just suggesting it will be poorly spent.
You are keeping your wife in a marriage with a man that is resentful also. Let her free to find a man that doesn’t want sex. I’m sure there are one or two out there that would be celibate by choice from the get go.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Is he? I think the child is his too...


Don't think so, no.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I checked. Child is not his.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I checked. Child is not his.


where is that? I stopped after 21 pages...


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Child is not his and she’s afraid to get pregnant and give him a child of their own. Now she’s probably too old to safely have a healthy child but they’ve been together for 9 years. Here he is being a loving father figure to her son and she has the nerve to stomp off to the car because an attractive woman, with her husband, dared to be with eyeshot of them. 

I know there are many good single moms worthy of being wife’d up but there also a lot that pull this. The worse are the ones that get their husband to legally adopt the kid as his own, to then get betrayed. Not sure if he’s been betrayed but being in a sexless marriage, all while supporting and loving another man’s kid is not much better.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Have you been cuddling with her the past week? 

If she asks you to - tell her to stop “pressuring you”…


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I disagree. You are downplaying her mental issues. The end result might be divorce at the end of the day, but you can't treat an anxious person in the same way. Of course she is falling short, but the solution is not to increase her anxiety.


Except that him making her comfy for 18 months didn't work AT ALL.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> And a child.


Not his child. 

And at this point, if he wants children of his own, he will will have to do so with someone else.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Except that him making her comfy for 18 months didn't work AT ALL.


No, because they didn't tackle her mental issues. She is not going to get better by herself and she is not going to have sex with him until she solves her issues.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Not his child.
> 
> And at this point, if he wants children of his own, he will will have to do so with someone else.


I still can't find the post where it says it's not his child... but it doesn't matter, I guess.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No if you go & read some of the other pages of this post there have been a few who have said to detach.


I think you got that backwards. Most here are saying to detach, there is only one voice saying it will make it worse, from what I have read.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

The child is not mine to end the confusion!

@farsidejunky is proof you can turn things round. It maybe a long shot. If she stays as she is now then I don't want to be with her much longer & I won't be. IF I can gradually turn this round to how we used to be it will be worth it. I can only do my part & leave the rest to her. Certain people need pushing closer to the cliff before they react. I will push her more & more.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The child is not mine to end the confusion!
> 
> @farsidejunky is proof you can turn things round. It maybe a long shot. If she stays as she is now then I don't want to be with her much longer & I won't be. IF I can gradually turn this round to how we used to be it will be worth it. I can only do my part & leave the rest to her. Certain people need pushing closer to the cliff before they react. I will push her more & more.


I'm not trying to be rude. Truly. 

Why would you want to be with someone you have to push to a cliff to provide you even an iota of a happy marriage (I doubt she will ever provide you with a non toxic healthy mutual marriage)?

Don't you see this is her personality and life with her will _forever be battle filled_?


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> The child is not mine to end the confusion!
> 
> @farsidejunky is proof you can turn things round. It maybe a long shot. If she stays as she is now then I don't want to be with her much longer & I won't be. IF I can gradually turn this round to how we used to be it will be worth it. I can only do my part & leave the rest to her. Certain people need pushing closer to the cliff before they react. I will push her more & more.


"I will PUSH her more and more".

You are NOT getting this. Your responsibility is NOT to "push" her. Nope. Your responsibility is to act like a grown ass adult and tell her what's going on with you. You know communication. That this is NOT working for you and that your marriage is on life support.

How you see it these are the options and then she's going to do whatever she's going to do. The ball is in her court.

NO PUSHING!!

She can make a decision on her OWN FREE VOLITION because that's what adults do.

Then see what she decides to do and act accordingly.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sideways said:


> "I will PUSH her more and more".
> 
> You are NOT getting this. Your responsibility is NOT to "push" her. Nope. Your responsibility is to act like a grown ass adult and tell her what's going on with you. You know communication. That this is NOT working for you and that your marriage is on life support.
> 
> ...


This.

It is creating a void, and seeing if she is willing to fill it. 

It is more like pulling than pushing. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I'm not trying to be rude. Truly.
> 
> Why would you want to be with someone you have to push to a cliff to provide you even an iota of a happy marriage (I doubt she will ever provide you with a non toxic healthy mutual marriage)?
> 
> Don't you see this is her personality and life with her will _forever be battle filled_?


THIS^^^^^^^

Why are you wanting to be with someone you have to manipulate and basically force to like you? 

Why not be with someone that innately likes you and wants to be with you naturally? 

If you threaten to dump her and are packing your bags to leave, she might capitulate and agree to spread her legs for a night or two. 

Heck maybe she will even agree to see a MC and a shrink and spend the rest of your days going to counseling sessions and doctor appointments and trying various different medications for the rest of your days. 

But is that what you really want?

Let’s get real here for a second - She has rejected you with one excuse after another for a year and a half and now that you have brought it up, she accuses you of pressuring her. 

Let’s say she did agree to have sex one of these days,,,, do you really think it will be any good??

A few people have managed to go from no sex to monthly detached, disengaged duty sex, so no one can really say it’s impossible or can’t happen.

A small percentage of those people that were able to address some kind of specific, fixable problem have even managed to have some halfway decent sex now and then.

But going from outright rejection and hostility for a year and a half to anything resembling “good” sex, is a huge spread that very very few people can ever obtain. 

People win the the lottery and some people get hit by lightning. There have even been documented accounts of people getting hit by meteors. 

You need to ask yourself what you think the chances of a women with mental health and personality issues that has rejected her H for a year and a half, that accuses him of pressuring her the first time he brings it up,, and a man who has has very limited experience with women and never had an actual relationship before will be that one in a million lottery winner?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP tells more and more. And his wife sounds more and more like she needs walking papers, unrelated to the lack of sex.
She sounds like a nightmare.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Give it your best shot but keep in mind that very few manage to turn things around successfully. It is unfortunately an uncommon thing to fix and have both be happy with the outcome. Have a good, workable plan for what’s next — just in case you need it.


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## chazmataz33 (Apr 18, 2021)

My view. OP is here seeking advice.I come from 34 years of AA and in the AA I went to we talk about our experience and let the person decide what works best for them. After all they're the ones that have to live with their decisions.we try not to tell the person that they have to do anyone specific thing.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

chazmataz33 said:


> My view. OP is here seeking advice.I come from 34 years of AA and in the AA I went to we talk about our experience and let the person decide what works best for them. After all they're the ones that have to live with their decisions.we try not to tell the person that they have to do anyone specific thing.


Yeah thanks. 

This is a forum and people are posting their thoughts. 

We have mods here to police that and make sure forum rules aren’t broken. 

OP sure can decide what he likes and what he doesn't. 

Are you trying to tell posters what they should and shouldn't write?


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## chazmataz33 (Apr 18, 2021)

Not at all.just commenting like everyone else


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

chazmataz33 said:


> My view. OP is here seeking advice.I come from 34 years of AA and in the AA I went to we talk about our experience and let the person decide what works best for them. After all they're the ones that have to live with their decisions.we try not to tell the person that they have to do anyone specific thing.


So the take away is you've been brainwashed by AA, the 12 steps, and the 13th step.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

sideways said:


> "I will PUSH her more and more".
> 
> You are NOT getting this. Your responsibility is NOT to "push" her. Nope. Your responsibility is to act like a grown ass adult and tell her what's going on with you. You know communication. That this is NOT working for you and that your marriage is on life support.
> 
> ...


Why would anyone want to beg for sex in a marriage? Just the fact that he has to - says she has made her decision. It’s just that he isn’t accepting the decision she made 18+ months ago.

Her inaction IS your answer! Accept it - or move forward.

YOUR inaction has essentially met her decision with an agreement = no sex = you signed up too the minute you allowed a week or so to pass without saying firmly “what about sex within our marriage?”

So…. Your passive nature is your enemy. And that’s the ONLY thing you can change about it all. That - or divorce her.

I know you will do anything to stay. But your passive nature has made the agreement WITH HER - and that’s why you won’t see one bit of change.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It’s very sad the mental issues and all the background are ignored here. Fine. I don’t have much to add. I think the OP is smart enough and he will find the right balance. I wish him well.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> It’s very sad the mental issues and all the background are ignored here. Fine. I don’t have much to add. I think the OP is smart enough and he will find the right balance. I wish him well.


I agree that this appears to really be a mental issue with the wife, but honestly the advice can still hold true. He can't force her to get help if she doesn't want it. But he can make it know that he won't live with the fallout of those mental issues and part of that is to detach from her and make her realize that she will lose him. Maybe that shock will be enough for her to seek help and if not he has prepared himself to walk away from a bad marriage.


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## chazmataz33 (Apr 18, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So the take away is you've been brainwashed by AA, the 12 steps, and the 13th step.


Nice comment.millions of people never mind youre not worth wasting my time on!!!!!#


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Lack of sex is only a symptom of the underlying problem. When I say she needs to repent, I’m not talking about having sex with you. I’m talking about her hateful attitude towards you. Yes, hateful. She is punishing you for something that she is angry with you about. I think the reason her anger is unresolved is because she can’t forgive you for something you didn’t do. Rather than directing her anger at herself, where it belongs, she’s directing her anger at you for not going along with her during her outburst. You can’t disagree with her and be in her good graces. If this issue isn’t resolved, this scenario will play out over and over. She may give you sex, out of fear, but her heart won’t be in it.

That’s why it’s important to address and resolve the argument properly, which is for her to take responsibility for how she behaved, apologize to you, and let go of her bitterness. You are living with a bitter woman. That is the root of her behavior. If you make it all about sex, you have missed the point and nothing will be resolved, even if she starts giving you sex. It won’t be mutual. It will be her giving you something that she doesn’t want to give you.

Of course, she’s anxious. You are working on stopping your enablement of her bad attitude and behavior. You are working to break the codependent cycle, which is uncomfortable. You’re doing this while she is already jobless and afraid, so she is escalating. The key is for her to look inward and resolve her inability to take responsibility for herself. You are doing well in not trying to fix this for her. She may have a breakdown, and I hope she doesn’t, but continuing to do what is wrong, in order to avoid her discomfort, is not the answer. Keep at it, but please remember that this is not about sex. This is about your wife being unwilling to resolve the problem that is causing her bitterness. All adults should be able to work through these things. Treat her like a smart, competent adult and let her work through this. If you see signs of her doing that, pat her on the back and encourage her to continue. Only encourage her in what she is doing right.

Her fits are her way of trying to control you, because she knows you don’t want to upset her. But the reality is that you are not the one upsetting her. She is doing that all by herself.

Did you follow her to the car when she ran out of the arcade?

I don’t think you should push or pull her. Manipulation is not the answer. Hold your ground and hold your boundaries. Do nothing out of spite or malice. Do everything with an open hand and a good attitude. You are not trying to get something out of her. You are trying to resolve marriage issues that require her participation. Non-participation isn’t an option for married people. It’s called desertion.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are unwilling to make her uncomfortable.

She has absolutely NO reason to change.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> It’s very sad the mental issues and all the background are ignored here. Fine. I don’t have much to add. I think the OP is smart enough and he will find the right balance. I wish him well.


Nobody is ignoring this. 

If there's something going on then she needs to take action and get it addressed because she needs to know that it's destroying her marriage and to the degree it's on life support.

Doing nothing about it and keeping the status quo will no longer suffice (at least that's the wisdom being conveyed to him but OP has shown for the past nineteen months that he'll continue to enable her and make excuses for her).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> It’s very sad the mental issues and all the background are ignored here. Fine. I don’t have much to add. I think the OP is smart enough and he will find the right balance. I wish him well.


People have not been ignoring the mental health issues. 

People have said to get her head examined all the way back to the first couple pages of the thread. 

I have stated as nauseum that this is outside his scope to fix this and that she needs professional mental health services as an individual and they need professional MC as a couple if they are to have a happy, healthy relationship.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Good post, but is she really bitter? So bitter people still want to cuddle and spend tome with you? Seriously, I’m just asking.

some of the data he’s given us doesn’t match her statements.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m going to predict that OP is going to be married with his own kids in a few years, to a wife that loves him.

I think the ex will try and make his life miserable and he might get drawn back here and there, but largely, I eventually see him meeting someone new.

OP do you want to have a baby with someone one day?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> People have not been ignoring the mental health issues.
> 
> People have said to get her head examined all the way back to the first couple pages of the thread.
> 
> I have stated as nauseum that this is outside his scope to fix this and that she needs professional mental health services as an individual and they need professional MC as a couple if they are to have a happy, healthy relationship.


I would say it’s been 50/50. But what bothers me is people pontificating without having lived - and not survived - a marriage with a partner with serious mental health issues. It’s upsetting for me, so maybe I should stay out of these discussions.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> You are unwilling to make her uncomfortable.
> 
> She has absolutely NO reason to change.


The only way you can make this assertion is if you ignore the posts he's made about what exactly he is doing. It may not be as much as you like, but it's not nothing, either.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I would say it’s been 50/50. But what bothers me is people pontificating without having lived - and not survived - a marriage with a partner with serious mental health issues. It’s upsetting for me, so maybe I should stay out of these discussions.


Even so, there’s really only two things that one can do to ensure their own well being and best interests if they are involved with someone with mental illness- 

- one is to do what you can to get them proper treatment and hope that it helps. 

- the other is to get away from them so they don’t take you down with them. 

The OP is not doing either of those things.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> The only way you can make this assertion is if you ignore the posts he's made about what exactly he is doing. It may not be as much as you like, but it's not nothing, either.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


It’s not nothing - but it’s not enough change for her to get a solid message from him. He’s appeared to be afraid of her being uncomfortable.
Him going out with friends doesn’t necessarily show her he’s considering ending it if she won’t change.

Really, the change is only up to you, OP, you kind of need to figure she isn’t changing… as long as she refuses solid mental help she isn’t likely to change. That’s up to you. You may have to get used to a life without sex.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Even so, there’s really only two things that one can do to ensure their own well being and best interests if they are involved with someone with mental illness-
> 
> - one is to do what you can to get them proper treatment and hope that it helps.
> 
> ...


Also, it's important to remember that personality dysfunction isn't the same as a mental health issue.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Beach123 said:


> It’s not nothing - but it’s not enough change for her to get a solid message from him. He’s appeared to be afraid of her being uncomfortable.
> Him going out with friends doesn’t necessarily show her he’s considering ending it if she won’t change.
> 
> Really, the change is only up to you, OP, you kind of need to figure she isn’t changing… as long as she refuses solid mental help she isn’t likely to change. That’s up to you. You may have to get used to a life without sex.


It's not enough to rock the casbah yet (or to satisfy some people's taste for blood here) but it's a change for him. One can circumnavigate the globe as long as they put one foot in front of the other, keep moving forward, never stop and never go backwards. 

This is a guy that sat on the couch didn't say a peep for a year and half, so this is a change and a step for him. As long as he keeps moving forward and doesn't backslide or capitulate, he will shake up the status quo and alter the dynamics of their relationship.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Also, it's important to remember that personality dysfunction isn't the same as a mental health issue.


But without evaluation by a trained professional, we won't know which.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Even so, there’s really only two things that one can do to ensure their own well being and best interests if they are involved with someone with mental illness-
> 
> - one is to do what you can to get them proper treatment and hope that it helps.
> 
> ...


I wish I could like this twice.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

@Cynthia No I didn't follow her out. I stayed for another 20 minutes as agreed. She was fine about it. It was her anxiety kicking in. I do agree that she is a bitter lady. Not just with me but with life - her parents, her ex, friends etc. I suppose I've always thought I will be the one to change that but the further down the line we get the less I'm sure. She loves me, that I know by the way she is with me in every other aspect. She just has a barrier up at the moment for sex. Whether it will ever come down who knows.

I agree she isn't doing too much to change herself from what I'm witnessing outwardly. She did get a full time job yesterday which will change home life one way or another. Not sure of when she starts yet but the job is hers. It will change things at home & will take tons of stress off her I know that. It may bring new stress working in a new job but it will certainly take away the money worries which was a big worry in her mind. How she changes off the back of that we will see.

I do agree with @oldshirt - it factually comes down to 2 paths if you want to be black & white about it. She doesn't think she needs help. I do. Nothing major just a professional ear to listen to her. I have also suggested marriage counselling which she doesn't want to do. So leaving it at that I only have one option. I will see how her new job alters her which it will. I'm just not sure how yet.

@In Absentia has some good points. He has lived through something similar to me by the sounds of it. Just being brutal with her will not work out well with people like her. It will create a massive drama. It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if she had family & friends but she doesn't which I've known for a while speaks volumes. I mean there is nothing wrong with no family, it does happen I understand that but to not have just 1 friend. It's a trait she seems to have that everyone she encounters in her life she just ends up losing.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> I’m going to predict that OP is going to be married with his own kids in a few years, to a wife that loves him.
> 
> I think the ex will try and make his life miserable and he might get drawn back here and there, but largely, I eventually see him meeting someone new.
> 
> OP do you want to have a baby with someone one day?


I did want kids, not so sure these days but I'm open minded. Find the right person & things can change quickly.

In a way I hope you're right. My mind is split 50/50 at present. I want us to work because at one point believe it or not we were good. Part of me thinks we can get back there but the other part of me thinks it's just a dream. 

I know I'm playing for time in my own head. It only struck me a month ago how bizarre sex twice in 18 months is. It didn't hit me until 1 month ago - this only hit me 4 weeks ago when I started researching on these forums to gauge how others viewed my situation. So this is new to me in my head to deal with. So I am well aware by playing the long game it is suiting me just as much. 

It's allowing ME time to get MY head together as I sit back & witness her/my life with my eyes a lot more open than 4 weeks ago.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

No way in hell should you have a kid even if the sex flood gates open like Niagara Falls. It might end up a nut job like it’s mom. Best to start fresh with a new gene pool.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> No well in hell should you have a kid even if the sex flood gates open like Niagara Falls. It might end up a nut job like it’s mom. Best to start fresh with a new gene pool.


No sorry I meant if I were to move on I'm open minded for children. With my wife currently then no children are not in my mind at all.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> @Cynthia No I didn't follow her out. I stayed for another 20 minutes as agreed. She was fine about it. It was her anxiety kicking in. I do agree that she is a bitter lady. Not just with me but with life - her parents, her ex, friends etc. I suppose I've always thought I will be the one to change that but the further down the line we get the less I'm sure. She loves me, that I know by the way she is with me in every other aspect. She just has a barrier up at the moment for sex. Whether it will ever come down who knows.


Excellent that you did not follow her out. Surprising that she wasn’t upset that you didn’t follow her, but that’s a good thing. Maybe there is hope for her.





somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know I'm playing for time in my own head. It only struck me a month ago how bizarre sex twice in 18 months is. It didn't hit me until 1 month ago - this only hit me 4 weeks ago when I started researching on these forums to gauge how others viewed my situation. So this is new to me in my head to deal with. So I am well aware by playing the long game it is suiting me just as much.
> 
> It's allowing ME time to get MY head together as I sit back & witness her/my life with my eyes a lot more open than 4 weeks ago.


Yes, this is new to you. Despite what others may say, you are making good progress. You are finding your way, based on what is working for you. Learning what boundaries are and how to set them is huge. Moving out of codependence is also huge. There’s no big hurry, as long as you are continuing to move forward and make progress. It’s also good that you love your wife and are considering her in all of this. If you are doing this out of love, things will turn out fine, one way or another.

It must be a relief that your wife found a full-time job. Hopefully it will be a good place for her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Excellent that you did not follow her out. Surprising that she wasn’t upset that you didn’t follow her, but that’s a good thing. Maybe there is hope for her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I am relieved that she has a job. It won't start for another 2 weeks or so but it's on the horizon at least.

One thing that is noticeable with her is she has been extra moody/snappy over the past 2 months which ties in perfectly with when she was having problems with finding a job. As there is nobody else in our little circle I get the brunt of it. The thing I was going to add was she still seems extra on edge which I am assuming is down to the words she heard from me? They must be getting to her in some form? I would think perhaps ramping up her anxiety inside her. Whether that is good or bad for me/us I don't know but I think it's provoked a reaction. 

I'm sticking with the backing off plan at present. I was out for the night earlier this week & she invited me into the City with her yesterday to which I refused "too busy". Unfortunately the night out this weekend has been cancelled by my friend but I can't do much about that. It's a matter of sticking to my plan & seeing how the job affects things in the meantime.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Why don't you still go out to the event even though your friend canceled? Your wife doesn't need to know he canceled and who cares if he canceled...You're going out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> Why don't you still go out to the event even though your friend canceled? Your wife doesn't need to know he canceled and who cares if he canceled...You're going out.


Yeah or just go to the gym or a movie or call up another friend. 

It doesn’t really matter what it is, just get out and do something you’re interested in.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree. 

Be out.

Be scarce. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree.
> 
> Be out.
> 
> ...


It’s really so much more than being out and being scarce. 

The important thing is to do things that YOU are interested in and want to do. Get out and have fun and make a good life for you. 

If you are out sitting in a parking lot just trying to make her anxious, that is simply playing games and being manipulative. Doing things to intentionally distress and hurt others is abusive. 

The point is not to get digs on her as that just makes you an A-hole. 

The point is to develop a good life for yourself and she will then either follow you into your life and have a good life WITH you (which would include a marital sex life). 

Or she will continue to detach and pull away from you ( or push you away as the case may be).

If you have developed a good life of your own and she goes her way, then it’s really no skin off your back because you have built a good life without her and you carry on about your business.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> It’s really so much more than being out and being scarce.
> 
> The important thing is to do things that YOU are interested in and want to do. Get out and have fun and make a good life for you.
> 
> ...


I wish I could like this twice.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Who cares if she knows the friend canceled…. Still go. Maybe even better that way.


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## Clint62 (10 mo ago)

Some women tend to reduce the importance of sex after years of marriage like it’s some infantile dumb desire from their husbands. You didn’t get married to merely jerk off in the later years. Being afraid of having another kid is a garbage excuse. If sex is important to you ( as it should be) then she needs to come up off her ass and start holding up her end of the “bargain”, whether it be via medical or psychologic intervention/ counseling…maybe for BOTH of you


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP I'm curious. 

Her child isn't your child, you have no biological children. 

Did you go into the marriage agreeing to be child free? Or is that something she sprung on you?


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Clint62 said:


> Some women tend to reduce the importance of sex after years of marriage like it’s some infantile dumb desire from their husbands. You didn’t get married to merely jerk off in the later years. Being afraid of having another kid is a garbage excuse. If sex is important to you ( as it should be) then she needs to come up off her ass and start holding up her end of the “bargain”, whether it be via medical or psychologic intervention/ counseling…maybe for BOTH of you


I can't like this enough. I'll take it one step further though and say it's entirely possible the whole thing is a charade from start to now. She wouldn't be the first woman ever to 'fake it till you make it.' Stress over getting a job, yep, times up. Husband wants me to put out now, better get a paycheck in case he follows through.

The OP is playing games and seems content to do so; she chose well. This is not a complicated whatsup, whodunit.
The woman does not want to have sex with her husband. Unwilling to go to counseling tells me that she does not want to say out loud to OP that she does not want to have sex with him, period. Cuddles, besties yes. Penis in vagina, no.
'Well what! she had sex with me a year and a half ago!' 'Then we had that crazy argument she started and convinced me it was my fault.' 

OP does not realize that a woman can be best buds with a man with absolutely zero attraction. He seems ok with this situation but the digging for deeper meaning is just space. There isn't a deep meaning when a woman does not want to have sex with a man.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It hasn’t happened by now…… it ain’t happening


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Livvie said:


> OP I'm curious.
> 
> Her child isn't your child, you have no biological children.
> 
> Did you go into the marriage agreeing to be child free? Or is that something she sprung on you?


That’s an excellent question. Was there ever discussion of the 2 if you ever having a kid of your own. 

OP has proven through his actions and words that he would be a good father. I took note of how he referred to them having a kid early in this thread that was actually her kid. To me that is huge because I see many times that guys who marry a single mom or a divorced woman with kids will refer to the kids as her kids. Even in blended family situation, I see the same thing but he embraced her kid as his own, yet she seems to not cherish that. It’s almost like she thinks any guy would do the same. I have news for her. That is not the case. I see in my social circle both single moms and divorced moms having husbands/live in boyfriends that just tolerate HER kids.

OP sacrificing ever having a kid of his own is huge. To that in a sexless marriage is insane.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

That's really eloquent jsmart and so true. 
It's no fun to tell a thread starter the truth sometimes; like I would rather clean a toilet than say something.
It's working for him though, a person cannot deny this. If it wasn't we wouldn't be here, so good luck to him.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok, John Williams novel Stoner is a must read for men in a marriage to a woman like this, and for the woman married to the angry jerk who isn’t attracted to you but married you for your money and housekeeping and because no-one else wanted to have sex with him.

You people married happiness-suckers, or deliberate deniers of your happiness. These women aren’t going to give you sex, and women, that man is never going to look at you with happy eyes when he walks in the door, or look happy next to you IF he even takes you outside the kitchen.

Read the novel Stoner, and see if your partner fits the description of the wife Edith. (Women can also benefit from this book to see similar traits in bitter/absent husbands). I would argue… that some people marry to slowly but surely make sure that nobody else gets to experience happiness. Even their children. And they never leave, or really let the spouse go. 

So it’s Stoner, by John Edward Williams.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I agree completely with those that say she needs to fix herself, you can’t do it. If she isn’t willing to do this then your marriage is already over. 

Never be cold or hateful with your wife. Simply say your not in the mood or you just don’t feel it right now. 

She will either fix herself or continue on her own course. Don’t push anything with her. Don’t ask for sex. She needs to be the one that pursues you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

ABHale said:


> I agree completely with those that say she needs to fix herself, you can’t do it. If she isn’t willing to do this then your marriage is already over.
> 
> Never be cold or hateful with your wife. Simply say your not in the mood or you just don’t feel it right now.
> 
> She will either fix herself or continue on her own course. Don’t push anything with her. Don’t ask for sex. She needs to be the one that pursues you.


You really think she’s going to pursue him at this point? She’s doing everything possible to avoid having sex with him. She isn’t going to pursue him.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Beach123 said:


> You really think she’s going to pursue him at this point? She’s doing everything possible to avoid having sex with him. She isn’t going to pursue him.



No, I don’t think she will at all. 

She just needs to to save the marriage.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> OP I'm curious.
> 
> Her child isn't your child, you have no biological children.
> 
> Did you go into the marriage agreeing to be child free? Or is that something she sprung on you?


Yes when things were good we discussed children & we were trying for one. It never happened. Perhaps looking at it now it was a blessing in disguise. Neither of us are looking to have children now even if we were having sex. My wife told me outright when I first brought this all up that she didn't want children & was scared of getting pregnant. I said that is fine with me as I agree the whole children thing has past us by now. If I were to move on & find someone else again I would be open to children but it isn't a necessity with me. I've always favoured a close partner above anything else which I once had. In fact the older I get the less I want children as it happens. 

I'm waiting to hear how this job pans out for her. It may change her drastically as financial pressures have gone. On the flip side it wouldn't surprise me if nothing changes. If that is the case it's just another strong sign I will be leaving in 5 months maximum. I will wait & see. 

If I can genuinely find something to do on Saturday I will but I'm not going to go out on purpose. I'm not trying to play games with her I'm trying to get on with my life. So at worse I can go out for a run or something instead. I've been out once this week, turned her invitation down to go shopping with her & been coming home from work later most days (only 30 minutes but never I've never done that before). These little things will be hitting home with her.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm not trying to play games with her I'm trying to get on with my life.


Ummm… I beg to differ.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Ummm… I beg to differ.


I'm trying different things to see what may work to help our marriage. I'm trying things to see what gets a reaction out of her. Yes to some that may sound like playing games. I'm really not though - I'm putting ME first just like SHE has done for 18 months. If I see something that gets a reaction out of her that says to me 'yes that is a positive response which may lead to change' I will go with it. I'm not trying to hurt her in any way as that COMPLETELY defeats the object of what I'm working towards. I am trying things out. Above all else I am doing this for me & my life long term though. This is about ME just as much as it's about our marriage.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm trying different things to see what may work to help our marriage. I'm trying things to see what gets a reaction out of her. Yes to some that may sound like playing games


Look, I’m in the camp that wants to let you play this out the way you want. It’s your marriage, your life, and you get to decide. If I were in your shoes, I may do the same thing given all the variables that you know and we don’t.

However, not matter how you want to frame it, you could have acted definitively long before now. Instead you’re choosing to “see what gets a reaction” and ”trying this or that”. On top of that, there is an air of manipulation. You’re trying to get a certain response from her by withholding certain affections and changing your behavior.

All this without fully explaining to her what you’re doing and why. (I know you told her what you want, this is not that).

So, yes, I beg to differ. What you’re doing is all about playing emotional games to get what you want and ultimately save the marriage. The only point that’s valid in defense is that you’re not doing this for fun, which “games” technically are supposed to be. But the principle is the same.

I’m in your camp and rooting for you, but let’s be honest about what this is.

_Not_ playing games would be if you said “honey you have till Friday to comply with my wishes or I’m gone.” Then waiting till Friday without further interference or manipulation from you. Or if you were transparent by saying, “Honey, I’m going to start withholding affection now because you haven’t responded. Next I’m going to start detaching emotionally by scheduling time out of the house and learning to be without you”.

If I’m somehow ever in her shoes, I would not want my spouse to play games with me.

Probably there’s some varying opinions about this but that’s how I see it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

What happened to therapy? Not an option?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Look, I’m in the camp that wants to let you play this out the way you want. It’s your marriage, your life, and you get to decide. If I were in your shoes, I may do the same thing given all the variables that you know and we don’t.
> 
> However, not matter how you want to frame it, you could have acted definitively long before now. Instead you’re choosing to “see what gets a reaction” and ”trying this or that”. On top of that, there is an air of manipulation. You’re trying to get a certain response from her by withholding certain affections and changing your behavior.
> 
> ...


I see your point of view. I could be much more to the point with her I know that. The main reason I'm not doing that is because I know for our marriage that approach won't get me anywhere. The approach I'm taking stands a better chance. I'm not saying it will work but do you think I want to be doing it this way? I'd much rather do it to the point & sort it out quicker but it just won't work for us. Others it may do but not us.

I do see your point of view fully though & appreciate all the advice you & others are giving me


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I see your point of view. I could be much more to the point with her I know that. The main reason I'm not doing that is because I know for our marriage that approach won't get me anywhere. The approach I'm taking stands a better chance. I'm not saying it will work but do you think I want to be doing it this way? I'd much rather do it to the point & sort it out quicker but it just won't work for us. Others it may do but not us.
> 
> I do see your point of view fully though & appreciate all the advice you & others are giving me


And here's the actual issue.

Her personality is such that she'd annihilate you if you talked to her honestly. 

I'd think about and sort out for yourself why you want to remain married to someone with this personality.

Even if she started having mutual, happy, regular sex with you, which is not going to happen, her other toxic ways of relating to you (and others) remains.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> And here's the actual issue.
> 
> Her personality is such that she'd annihilate you if you talked to her honestly.
> 
> ...


Maybe she'd annihilate OP, but I'd be in the camp that says he probably needs that.

Not to berate you OP, you're doing what you think is best and I for one appreciate that you're trying to save your marriage.

But in my world, W and I would have hard some long hard conversations already and there wouldn't be a lot of soft peddling once lines are drawn and positions are understood.
From that point it's do it or don't.

I agree with others, you made your position known, she has rejected it. Or at least minimized it to the point that it's not a priority to her. Your happiness is not a priority. I don't have to wonder what I'd do in your shoes, and it wouldn't be playing games.

But... again, I really am rooting for a good outcome. Maybe I will learn something here.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I see your point of view. I could be much more to the point with her I know that. The main reason I'm not doing that is because I know for our marriage that approach won't get me anywhere. The approach I'm taking stands a better chance. I'm not saying it will work but do you think I want to be doing it this way? I'd much rather do it to the point & sort it out quicker but it just won't work for us. Others it may do but not us


You’re basically saying that she will not be the wife you want and that your marriage will not be the marriage you want. 

Let me use this analogy. Let’s say you want a dog that you want to go duck hunting with that will jump into the lake and retrieve whatever ducks you shoot out of the sky and land in the water.

But instead of getting a retriever, you get a bulldog. And a bulldog that wants nothing to do with water or anything to do with retrieving fallen birds.

So by your logic, you know that you won’t be able to get the bulldog to retrieve fallen ducks in the water by trying to get it to fetch or tossing it in the water to get it to swim- - so instead you play tug-of-war with a pull toy in hopes that it will decide to swim out into the water and retrieve ducks on its own because you know trying to get it to swim and retrieve will be pointless. 

Sit down and really think about that. 

Do you see the disconnect?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think you’re good on the six month plan. Just make sure you’re getting your mental state and logistics together so that in the likely event there is no movement you can do what needs to be done rather than adding an extension.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

i will wager that somedayyouwillfindme will never leave his wife and his wife will dominate their relationship. It's their thing, their shtick. 44 pages.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP wants to be with a woman that refuses sex but needs him as a buddy and a roommate. She only stays with OP because nobody else would tolerate her craziness. He does because he loves her and she likes that but isn’t the least interested with sex with him.
She should do the right thing and tell him she doesn’t want sex with him ever again and doesn’t love him on that way.

you’re telling us what you think will get results in your marriage, OP.
I think you’re wrong, and you’ve had 18 months of doing nothing to show that.

My suggestion is stop trying to fix this and tell her you’re leaving her (if you really are). This is something she has to fix. You’re foolish to think there is some way you could fix it. It’s not you. It’s her.

You have zero intention of really leaving her in 5 months. You haven’t even talked to an attorney. Why not?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In fairness, it is 44 pages of mostly other posters telling him what and how he has chosen to do things is wrong. That isn't to say there is no merit in what people are advising him to do, but I digress.



harperlee said:


> i will wager that somedayyouwillfindme will never leave his wife and his wife will dominate their relationship. It's their thing, their shtick. 44 pages.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> In fairness, it is 44 pages of mostly other posters telling him what and how he has chosen to do things is wrong. That isn't to say there is no merit in what people are advising him to do, but I digress.


I get it. It's as easy for me to be critical as it is his wife. Punching down is not something I get behind.
As long as it takes.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Are you still cuddling with her?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

As long as the OP sticks to his timeline I think it’s fine. He’s already partway through it. Does it matter if he leaves now or in 5 months? Sure…

If he left now and felt bad about it, that might haunt him for the rest of his life.

If he stays at worst he lives a few more months like he has been for the last year and a half and gives up those months of opportunity to find someone (or more) else.

If he stays later than the 6 months, well maybe he’s happiest that way.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

"If I can genuinely find something to do on Saturday"?

You already had something "genuinely" planned for Saturday night. Your friend can no longer go. I'll ask this again but more than likely you won't answer for obvious reasons. Why can't you still go to the same event on Saturday even though your friend can't go? You wanted to go before so why not still go? This is NOT playing "games" with her. It's you doing what you want to do (and going where you want to go) and nothing has really changed except your friend joing you.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes when things were good we discussed children & we were trying for one. It never happened. Perhaps looking at it now it was a blessing in disguise. Neither of us are looking to have children now even if we were having sex. My wife told me outright when I first brought this all up that she didn't want children & was scared of getting pregnant. I said that is fine with me as I agree the whole children thing has past us by now. If I were to move on & find someone else again I would be open to children but it isn't a necessity with me. I've always favoured a close partner above anything else which I once had. In fact the older I get the less I want children as it happens.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear how this job pans out for her. It may change her drastically as financial pressures have gone. On the flip side it wouldn't surprise me if nothing changes. If that is the case it's just another strong sign I will be leaving in 5 months maximum. I will wait & see.
> 
> If I can genuinely find something to do on Saturday I will but I'm not going to go out on purpose. I'm not trying to play games with her I'm trying to get on with my life. So at worse I can go out for a run or something instead. I've been out once this week, turned her invitation down to go shopping with her & been coming home from work later most days (only 30 minutes but never I've never done that before). These little things will be hitting home with her.


I'd still go out if I were you even if just for a quiet relaxing meal alone. You may meet others out alone too and meet some new friendly people, to add to your growing social circle. Another option is a nice long walk or bicycle ride. Go to watch a movie, lots go alone. Just some ideas. Book a professional massage for relaxation (not a seedy one lol) All legal and you will feel fab afterwards. Do you have a friend, relative you can visit?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I do believe th OP does have the courage to leave if nothing improves. He's trying to build himself up, get confidence etc. His wife has been abusing him all this time, blaming him. He is not to blame as its his wife who is cutting him off from sex, and being cold. She is very messed up which makes a difficult situation for him. He needs to gain control back and build himself into a stronger person. He deserves a woman to love him and not punish him etc. I'd be happy if he met someone else eventually. I don't like the wife from how op has discussed her. Op you deserve so much better and to be happy, with a healthy sex life and love, trust and respect.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I do believe th OP does have the courage to leave if nothing improves. He's trying to build himself up, get confidence etc. His wife has been abusing him all this time, blaming him. He is not to blame as its his wife who is cutting him off from sex, and being cold. She is very messed up which makes a difficult situation for him. He needs to gain control back and build himself into a stronger person. He deserves a woman to love him and not punish him etc. I'd be happy if he met someone else eventually. I don't like the wife from how op has discussed her. Op you deserve so much better and to be happy, with a healthy sex life and love, trust and respect.


I understand people urging the OP to take drastic, definitive action immediately. 

But I agree that he needs to grow some balls and spine for himself first. 

For a married man to accept imposed celibacy for a year and half without so much as making a peep or even mentioning it, indicates a degree of emasculation that is incomprehensible to most men. 

If he were to try to take any kind of meaningful action now, she would have him for lunch and floss her teeth with his femur after. 

He needs to get away from her and around other people to be able to reflect on disordered she is and how dysfunctional their relationship is. 

And he needs to build up his strength and confidence that he will be able stand up her and able to make a life for himself without her.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I will go out for a long evening cycle or run on my own later. Already arranged a replacement night out for next week anyway for myself. 

Also I'm going for a new job. I had an interview yesterday which is already getting comments "you're going to meet someone whilst there aren't you?" and "are there women that work there?". I knew exactly what her reaction would be. Hopefully I get the job as it will get me out & about more as I've always worked on my own since I've been with my wife. I need to change the Status Quo I'm well aware of this & will be doing my best to do this going forward.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I will go out for a long evening cycle or run on my own later. Already arranged a replacement night out for next week anyway for myself.
> 
> Also I'm going for a new job. I had an interview yesterday which is already getting comments "you're going to meet someone whilst there aren't you?" and "are there women that work there?". I knew exactly what her reaction would be. Hopefully I get the job as it will get me out & about more as I've always worked on my own since I've been with my wife. I need to change the Status Quo I'm well aware of this & will be doing my best to do this going forward.


Just be honest with her and tell her that it's hard not buying fast food when there is no lunch to take to work. *shrug


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> Just be honest with her and tell her that it's hard not buying fast food when there is no lunch to take to work. *shrug


I hear you! I'm doing it for me of course but I know exactly how it will get to her.....her issue not mine.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I hear you! I'm doing it for me of course but I know exactly how it will get to her.....her issue not mine.


If all she wants in life is a comfortable roommate, you should probably give that to her.
You clean your house, as if you live alone in it and you do your own laundry and cook your own food and spend more time on yourself.
If she finds herself essentially being alone with you that might get her to do what she needs to get you back.
If that doesn't work, you're training yourself for singlehood anyway.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I will go out for a long evening cycle or run on my own later. Already arranged a replacement night out for next week anyway for myself.
> 
> Also I'm going for a new job. I had an interview yesterday which is already getting comments "you're going to meet someone whilst there aren't you?" and "are there women that work there?". I knew exactly what her reaction would be. Hopefully I get the job as it will get me out & about more as I've always worked on my own since I've been with my wife. I need to change the Status Quo I'm well aware of this & will be doing my best to do this going forward.


ask her why she'd even care


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I will go out for a long evening cycle or run on my own later. Already arranged a replacement night out for next week anyway for myself.
> 
> Also I'm going for a new job. I had an interview yesterday which is already getting comments "you're going to meet someone whilst there aren't you?" and "are there women that work there?". I knew exactly what her reaction would be. *Hopefully I get the job as it will get me out & about more as I've always worked on my own s*ince I've been with my wife. I need to change the Status Quo I'm well aware of this & will be doing my best to do this going forward.


heck yes! That’s awesome


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think someone hit it on the head when they said she knew she was a terrible wife and is totally insecure about him leaving her for another woman. He should. But that’s the angle I’d work to at least get her having sex with him again. I’d just be honest and tell her if we aren’t having sex anymore, I AM going to divorce you and find another woman who wants a romantic relationship (real marriage).
But OP is scared he will be “pressuring her” and such. I think there has to be pressure to cause a change. Hopefully her getting back in the saddle will result in a change, but I doubt it.

She’s being jealous of other women having sex with him, and she won’t touch him with a ten foot pole. How messed up is that?
I would fall out of love with a woman like that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s being jealous of other women having sex with him, and she won’t touch him with a ten foot pole. How messed up is that?
> *I would fall out of love with a woman like that.*


I would fall out of love with a woman that doesn't want to address that....


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I will go out for a long evening cycle or run on my own later. Already arranged a replacement night out for next week anyway for myself.
> 
> Also I'm going for a new job. I had an interview yesterday which is already getting comments "you're going to meet someone whilst there aren't you?" and "are there women that work there?". I knew exactly what her reaction would be. Hopefully I get the job as it will get me out & about more as I've always worked on my own since I've been with my wife. I need to change the Status Quo I'm well aware of this & will be doing my best to do this going forward.


I don’t get it, she doesn’t want you, but won’t let anyone else have you. As I mentioned, I see it often from both sexes and I never understand it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I mean geez, it must be such a terrible life for people who live this way??? You’re not attracted to your spouse, they physically repulse you but you want to be married to them. And the anger when someone else actually dares to see them as a pretty hot catch. You haven’t even met another women and she’s obsessing.

She could also be wanting you to find someone? Pushing you on purpose in a way, So that once again, you have to take the responsibility of it ending, and she then gets to be the victim. He left me for another woman!! Ah what a headache for you, I’m sorry this is dragging on. Look, baby steps for you. Maybe this is your final grief stage. I have actually seen happy endings too, so you just do what you need to do to survive each day. It’s not easy.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> I don’t get it, she doesn’t want you, but won’t let anyone else have you. As I mentioned, I see it often from both sexes and I never understand it. 🤷🏻‍♀️
> 
> I mean geez, it must be such a terrible life for people who live this way??? You’re not attracted to your spouse, they physically repulse you but you want to be married to them. And the anger when someone else actually dares to see them as a pretty hot catch. You haven’t even met another women and she’s obsessing.
> 
> She could also be wanting you to find someone? Pushing you on purpose in a way, So that once again, you have to take the responsibility of it ending, and she then gets to be the victim. He left me for another woman!! Ah what a headache for you, I’m sorry this is dragging on. Look, baby steps for you. Maybe this is your final grief stage. I have actually seen happy endings too, so you just do what you need to do to survive each day. It’s not easy.


I know, I can't relate to it either. She definitely doesn't want me to have someone else that I am sure of. That is the last thing she wants.

As you say I'm just cracking on with my side of life. It's weird to me. She isn't repulsed by me as she always wants cuddles, wants me to go out with her etc but it's just the sex side that is missing.

I've learnt not to try & get inside her head to understand her as it's impossible. I'm doing my thing focusing on my life.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know, I can't relate to it either. She definitely doesn't want me to have someone else that I am sure of. That is the last thing she wants.
> 
> As you say I'm just cracking on with my side of life. It's weird to me. She isn't repulsed by me as she always wants cuddles, wants me to go out with her etc but it's just the sex side that is missing.
> 
> I've learnt not to try & get inside her head to understand her as it's impossible. I'm doing my thing focusing on my life.


Well, it's not weird. The sex side is missing _because she's not interested in sex with you_ but enjoys the other benefits of marriage. She's keeping you in a non marriage and you are letting her. 

It's also not weird to want to cuddle and do things together but not have sex with other living beings. I cuddle my new lab puppy ALL OF THE TIME and I also enjoy going out with him. But I'm not married to him, he's my cuddle bug. You are hers, a platonic cuddle and life buddy, that's it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know, I can't relate to it either. She definitely doesn't want me to have someone else that I am sure of. That is the last thing she wants.
> 
> As you say I'm just cracking on with my side of life. It's weird to me. She isn't repulsed by me as she always wants cuddles, wants me to go out with her etc but it's just the sex side that is missing.
> 
> I've learnt not to try & get inside her head to understand her as it's impossible. I'm doing my thing focusing on my life.


Also, that's NOT all that's missing.

What's also missing from her is respect for you, care and compassion for your needs in the marriage, the desire to provide you with a fair, happy, non-toxic dynamic, a desire to work on her own issues, etc. etc.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I know, I can't relate to it either. She definitely doesn't want me to have someone else that I am sure of. That is the last thing she wants.


Next time she does this, reply with something like the following:

"Oh, babe! Perfect timing. My concubine was just asking about someone to bring in for a threesome. Would Friday or Saturday work better for you?"

The intent is to point out the absurdity of her insecurity by also being absurd.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How are you holding up, @somedayyouwillfindme?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> How are you holding up, @somedayyouwillfindme?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Fingers crossed hoping for a good update post.
Rainbows and butterflies for all.
But I wouldn't bet a Russian Ruble on it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

“Ya know still on my long game ….. takin it slow…. Nothing new going on but I’m in her head so I count that as progress …. Blah blah blah ….”


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Some good, some bad. There is tension there obviously as the underlying issue is there every day & we both know about it. We've kissed. Less cuddling as I haven't initiated it like I was. She has come up to me to cuddle on sofa & I have done so but I have pulled back from going up to her to initiate it.
> 
> If/when nothing changes I will refuse the cuddles & turn the dial up more. I know it looks like I'm doing things slowly because I am. Me changing everything overnight just won't work for our marriage. I stand a better chance turning it round slowly.
> 
> That's me. I know some are saying they can't believe nothing has changed yet but every relationship is different. I'm not saying it will work but I know I will have a better chance doing it slowly.


You could always just tell her you don't want to cuddle with her -- it gives you other thoughts or ramps you up too much, so it's too much of a tease and you'd rather not....


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> How are you holding up, @somedayyouwillfindme?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


No real change. My wife & sex hasn't been at the forefront of my mind though to be honest for the past few days. Been out & about a lot. Out again tonight. Really busy with work this week too. Had a break from on here for a few days just to refresh.

No sex at end of the day but it's as I expected it to be. I've been going to my parents house during the day to set up an office there in the spare room for work should I be leaving. As I said I'm here for 4.5 months now. If nothing changes I am off. So I've been putting things in place. My wife should be starting her new job in 2 weeks. I will be hearing back from the one I applied for in the next couple of days or early next week I was told. So there is a lot changing.

To be honest this last week the situation hasn't been getting to me so much. Maybe because I'm being more proactive I don't know but it hasn't been getting to me like when I first came on here.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No real change. My wife & sex hasn't been at the forefront of my mind though to be honest for the past few days. Been out & about a lot. Out again tonight. Really busy with work this week too. Had a break from on here for a few days just to refresh.
> 
> No sex at end of the day but it's as I expected it to be. I've been going to my parents house during the day to set up an office there in the spare room for work should I be leaving. As I said I'm here for 4.5 months now. If nothing changes I am off. So I've been putting things in place. My wife should be starting her new job in 2 weeks. I will be hearing back from the one I applied for in the next couple of days or early next week I was told. So there is a lot changing.
> 
> To be honest this last week the situation hasn't been getting to me so much. Maybe because I'm being more proactive I don't know but it hasn't been getting to me like when I first came on here.


This part, you are doing right. Getting ready to vamoose in a smooth fashion.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No real change. My wife & sex hasn't been at the forefront of my mind though to be honest for the past few days. Been out & about a lot. Out again tonight. Really busy with work this week too. Had a break from on here for a few days just to refresh.
> 
> No sex at end of the day but it's as I expected it to be. I've been going to my parents house during the day to set up an office there in the spare room for work should I be leaving. As I said I'm here for 4.5 months now. If nothing changes I am off. So I've been putting things in place. My wife should be starting her new job in 2 weeks. I will be hearing back from the one I applied for in the next couple of days or early next week I was told. So there is a lot changing.
> 
> To be honest this last week the situation hasn't been getting to me so much. Maybe because I'm being more proactive* I don't know but it hasn't been getting to me like when I first came on here.*


I suspect because you knew already nothing was going to change. If you’re actually getting a new life started and detaching, I think you’re going to find that you’re going to get happier and happier being away from her and seeing that living alone vs living with a person that’s mentally unstable and unromantic, is a happier position.
You will also notice once you get accustomed to her being out of your life and you start dating a woman that is normal and loves sex just as much as you do, that you were really wasting some years with a cold drama queen.

It’s hard to break free from the kind of circumstance you’re in. But getting out is worth it. She’s not the only person you can love.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

What Evinrude58 said ^^^^^

I will also add that as you start to develop your own life, you will gain more and more momentum and become more natural and intuitive.

A couple weeks ago you were making plans to do something a week or so in advance like it was some big, weird project and complex operation. 

Before too long you will just naturally do it without really giving it much thought. Doing your own thing and living your own living will just be natural to you. 

Unless she wakes up and takes drastic action on her end, the ultimate conclusion is one day between your golf outing with a golf buddy and meeting some coworkers downtown for a live band at the pub, you will hand her a stack of papers to show her which lines to sign and where to initial and that the movers will be there in a couple days when you move in to your new place,,,,,, then you head out to see the band at the pub.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It's not wonder you're feeling better. Your whole life is no longer revolving around someone who is holding a grudge against you, and you are not constantly hoping for something that she is unwilling to give. Your focus has changed and you are moving forward with your life rather than staying stagnant and miserable. You are getting stronger as a person and recognizing that she doesn't hold your fate in her hands. This is very good.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I am in this same position - only as a woman. I'm exhausted with making the effort - and I did NOT put off the conversation. It's only been 5 months - we've had sex maybe 4 times in all that time. I have done everything except stand on my head for YEARS to make our sex life fun and exciting. Any conversation just goes around in a circle and ends up frustrating. It's absolutely NOT FAIR to not have sex with your marriage partner AND expect that partner to go without and not leave. It's cruel.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Refresh my memory, does your wife know that you're giving her six months (now down to 4.5 months) to get with the program or you're hitting the eject button?

If not I have to ask why the hell not???

If you haven't sat her down and told her it's not surprising. You let this go on (no sex) for over eighteen months and basically said nothing. It's very apparent that you will avoid conflict at all cost.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Progress !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are starting to disconnect and all be dang look at this …. It doesn’t seem to bother you as much anymore 👌


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Well, it's not weird. The sex side is missing _because she's not interested in sex with you_ but enjoys the other benefits of marriage. She's keeping you in a non marriage and you are letting her.
> 
> It's also not weird to want to cuddle and do things together but not have sex with other living beings. I cuddle my new lab puppy ALL OF THE TIME and I also enjoy going out with him. But I'm not married to him, he's my cuddle bug. You are hers, a platonic cuddle and life buddy, that's it.


It’s time to get a dog.

Your marriage isn’t romantic - it’s a marriage of convenience. She cuddles to manipulate you and YOU ALLOW it!

You avoid answering if you’re still cuddling her - which means you are. You are weak in this marriage - heck, you can’t even have an honest conversation with your WIFE to say “this isn’t working for me and I’m leaving if it doesn’t change within the week”.

Codependency is harming your life! Read up on how to help yourself with that issue. This is something you CAN change about yourself!

When you expect others to change - it’s unreasonable - the change comes from you.
When you change - things change. Waiting for her to change is a moot point!


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You know, I don’t think he owes her any deadline and doesn’t need to tell her of his plans. I think there have to be some things he gets to have just for him.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Have you checked the phone bill?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

sideways said:


> Refresh my memory, does your wife know that you're giving her six months (now down to 4.5 months) to get with the program or you're hitting the eject button?
> 
> If not I have to ask why the hell not???
> 
> If you haven't sat her down and told her it's not surprising. You let this go on (no sex) for over eighteen months and basically said nothing. It's very apparent that you will avoid conflict at all cost.


No she doesn't know about the 6 month plan. My reason being she may act differently off the back of that knowledge. She might start having sex in a months time knowing the deadline is getting nearer just to keep me then stop again. This way it will be genuine or at least more genuine. I have told her how I feel, she has heard.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So she mainly just doesn’t care how you feel… and expects you to live in a sexless marriage. 

That is not a loving wife. A loving wife would hear you AND do things to help your needs be met - in the ways she can.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You don’t need to tell her your plans. You have had enough talks. A spouse shouldn’t have to keep begging for sex or affection.

Besides, your actions are speaking for themselves. Sometimes it takes time for a person to wake up. She’s going to start to feel your absence and then start to notice how you’re looking as you head out the door. That’s when they either wake up and up their game or just shrug their shoulders and wallow in their miserableness. Either way you are prepared to face a new life. Happily married to a partner that’s making an effort to meet your needs or a confident person that is happy with himself and ready to enjoy living single.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No she doesn't know about the 6 month plan. My reason being she may act differently off the back of that knowledge. She might start having sex in a months time knowing the deadline is getting nearer just to keep me then stop again. This way it will be genuine or at least more genuine. I have told her how I feel, she had heard.


Keep moving forward.

You have made your boundaries known. 

Talk less, do more. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

As long as you're moving forward that's all that matters. She knows what she's doing and obviously doesn't care or she would try to change. 

Are you still cuddling with her?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No she doesn't know about the 6 month plan. My reason being she may act differently off the back of that knowledge. She might start having sex in a months time knowing the deadline is getting nearer just to keep me then stop again. This way it will be genuine or at least more genuine. I have told her how I feel, she has heard.


I think that is the best approach and that you should NOT tell her your plans or the deadline for exactly the reason you have stated. She can fake it for 6 months. 

And I agree with you and the other posters that have said that you have done enough talking and that she has been informed of your dissatisfaction and informed of what you want in this marriage. 

You keep doing you. She will either straighten herself up, or she will watch you move on with your own life. It will be her choice either way.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

sideways said:


> As long as you're moving forward that's all that matters. She knows what she's doing and obviously doesn't care or she would try to change.
> 
> Are you still cuddling with her?


Yes I give her the odd cuddle here & there - nothing like what it was though. As I said I'm not here to play games so completely holding back from cuddles just to get my own way (perhaps) isn't what I'm about. I don't initiate anymore at all though which is probably the key thing. She will notice that & she will notice she is coming to me more.

I don't over think it like I was 2-3 weeks ago. I'm getting on with my life more. As I walk round through my day I imagine I wasn't with her so I can appreciate the feeling if it were to happen. It has it negatives of course, but I can certainly see lots of positives too.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No she doesn't know about the 6 month plan. My reason being she may act differently off the back of that knowledge. She might start having sex in a months time knowing the deadline is getting nearer just to keep me then stop again. This way it will be genuine or at least more genuine. I have told her how I feel, she has heard.


I have been thinking it’s really wrong of you to not tell her. However, if what you posted above is truly how you feel, I think you’re doing the right thing. So I change my mind.

Are you serious about leaving if it doesn’t change? Have you seen an attorney?
If not, why not?
I’m just curious. It’s your life and a real shame you’re being forced to do this. Remember to let her know it wasn’t about the sex, it was about her not caring enough to even TRY to meet a normal person’s need for intimacy in a romantic relationship. 
she will surely pull the “it was all about sex” card.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I don't over think it like I was 2-3 weeks ago. I'm getting on with my life more. As I walk round through my day I imagine I wasn't with her so I can appreciate the feeling if it were to happen. It has it negatives of course, but I can certainly see lots of positives too.


Ahhh Grasshopper, you are beginning to see the way (1970s TV show reference)


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I give her the odd cuddle here & there - nothing like what it was though. As I said I'm not here to play games so completely holding back from cuddles just to get my own way (perhaps) isn't what I'm about. I don't initiate anymore at all though which is probably the key thing. She will notice that & she will notice she is coming to me more.
> 
> I don't over think it like I was 2-3 weeks ago. I'm getting on with my life more. As I walk round through my day I imagine I wasn't with her so I can appreciate the feeling if it were to happen. It has it negatives of course, but I can certainly see lots of positives too.


Good for you!!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One more scripted line to remember when she asks shy you are doing 'this' to her:

"I'm not doing this to you. I'm doing this for me."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Any wild monkey sex yet?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Any wild monkey sex yet?


Is that a new porn category?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Is that a new porn category?


Note to self. Be careful when searching for monkey info.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Note to self. Be careful when searching for monkey info.


Ruh roh Shaggy
Didn’t know that was really a thing


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Looks like OP has flown the coop. Disappointing. I was hoping to hear how this turned out for him.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Sadly there was little chance of his relationship getting better. I hope he moves on


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diceplayer said:


> Looks like OP has flown the coop. Disappointing. I was hoping to hear how this turned out for him.


He said he wouldn’t be on here all the time but would check back periodically with updates and such. 

He’s playing the long game and planning on doing things over time.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Has there been any time in the past month that it seemed she may have sex with you?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I'm still here! No sex yet. Wife starts her new job in 2.5 weeks. She has also decided this past week to change her medication for the first time in numerous years. I think there are 2 reasons for this. The first is a fact - as per my previous posts things since Christmas (work,money etc) have been playing on her mind heavily & making her ill. Anxiety has sky rocketed off the back of the worries. This is a 100% true as I have witnessed it. The 2nd is me surmising. I know my talk with her also added big time to her anxiety which I don't feel bad for. I had a right to say it - she has to live/deal/action what she wants to off the back of it. I think she can feel things have taken a step up & she is being pushed nearer the cliff edge to action something to make a change. 

Unfortunately I didn't get the job I was going for which was a kick down south but we move on. I will be looking elsewhere for other work. It will do me good to have a change & to get out in the public again. Also I think my wife has had it too easy knowing I've been working on my own round the corner since I've known her. The thought of me working in a shop/office with women will get to her. But perhaps it's part of the safety net she needs ripping from underneath her. As I said - it's a big disappointment I didn't get the job!

As I've said numerous times I'm here to play the long game to sort this out. If it works out all well & good. If not I have been using these past 4 weeks & will continue to do so going forward to get my head in the right space. So if I do leave head wise it would be 90% processed even before I shut the door for the last time.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Has there been any time in the past month that it seemed she may have sex with you?


Yes, a couple of days ago. We had a passionate kiss. I've been with her long enough to know it was close to leading to something. Well, years ago it would have but the signs were still there. Unfortunately it was as I was leaving out the door & our son was due back from school within 10 minutes so I knew it wasn't leading anywhere but that 'spark' was there. 

I just need to crack on with my life & see if a combination of her new job & medication snap her back out of this. The job will be a big thing. It will either send her back my way more or she will hate the job and get more down from it. Flip of a coin!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes, a couple of days ago. We had a passionate kiss. I've been with her long enough to know it was close to leading to something. Well, years ago it would have but the signs were still there. Unfortunately it was as I was leaving out the door & our son was due back from school within 10 minutes so I knew it wasn't leading anywhere but that 'spark' was there.


Be careful with thinking the spark was there or is coming back. 

Sometimes this is an intentional manipulation. It can be part of the carrot dangling. Some of these people will intentionally pick a time where they know that nothing further can happen and they act like they engaging.

They may even say things like they will pick up where things left off at a later time or will say that they will do it later that day or the next day or whatever, but of course that time never comes. 

Some of these people are Hopium dealers and feed you little hits of Hopium to keep you addicted to the Hopium that keeps you around but they never actually deliver.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Be careful with thinking the spark was there or is coming back.
> 
> Sometimes this is an intentional manipulation. It can be part of the carrot dangling. Some of these people will intentionally pick a time where they know that nothing further can happen and they act like they engaging.
> 
> ...


Yes that makes perfect sense. Spark may have been the wrong word. Perhaps love or feeling behind the kiss would be more appropriate. I'm pretty wise to her these days I feel. Mainly based off the help on this thread. I don't read too much into any of her actions or put any hope on them. I'm focusing on me. My wife/sex is now in 2nd place these days. When I first came on here it was all I could think about & it was getting to me badly but not now. Yes the problem is still there. Yes it isn't the way I would want it to be but it's not so important right now. I'm getting my head right & my life in place at present above all else.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I guess she is waiting to see how far she can push you and then have another melt-down. With no outside intervention, it will be a never ending cycle, unfortunately.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes that makes perfect sense. Spark may have been the wrong word. Perhaps love or feeling behind the kiss would be more appropriate. I'm pretty wise to her these days I feel. Mainly based off the help on this thread. I don't read too much into any of her actions or put any hope on them. I'm focusing on me. My wife/sex is now in 2nd place these days. When I first came on here it was all I could think about & it was getting to me badly but not now. Yes the problem is still there. Yes it isn't the way I would want it to be but it's not so important right now. I'm getting my head right & my life in place at present above all else.


Just a thought…
Playing out your plan, what if you get to the end and force the separation.
At that point she breaks into a million pieces and really does repent.
But in your head, it’s too little too late, which in my mind would be a tragedy if she really was changed. You just couldn’t trust it, which I agree with.

So, I’m wondering… should you have a ‘mock’ ending? Say a month before the end, pack It up and leave the house. Maybe for a week to clear your head. See how she responds.

I’m just thinking it’s sad to be too far gone to let her come back if she truly has a change of heart & mind.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I'm focusing on me. *My wife/sex is now in 2nd place these days.* When I first came on here it was all I could think about & it was getting to me badly but not now. Yes the problem is still there. Yes it isn't the way I would want it to be but it's not so important right now. *I'm getting my head right & my life in place at present above all else.*


I’m so glad that you’re focusing on yourself. My only suggestion is to stay away from porn or flapping. This will help elevate your T levels, that will help you with your workouts and make you more dynamic when you’re out and about. It seems like women can sense a man that is “loaded”. Not sure if it’s a scent thing or if we have a more confident urgency to our interactions but I definitely see and feel a difference and have read many accounts of guys explaining the same thing.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Just a thought…
> Playing out your plan, what if you get to the end and force the separation.
> At that point she breaks into a million pieces and really does repent.
> But in your head, it’s too little too late, which in my mind would be a tragedy if she really was changed. You just couldn’t trust it, which I agree with.
> ...


Yes that isn't a bad idea. I don't think deep down she thinks I would ever go through with it - I maybe wrong. Although at present she really doesn't seem to have a clue just how far gone I am in my head. She was talking about my birthday at the weekend which is in June & asking me what I wanted to do for it. So in her head all is normal. Strange.

The 1 month plan maybe worth considering. I will give it some thought certainly. I just need to get it clear it my head the best way to handle it all should it come down to it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> I’m so glad that you’re focusing on yourself. My only suggestion is to stay away from porn or flapping. This will help elevate your T levels, that will help you with your workouts and make you more dynamic when you’re out and about. It seems like women can sense a man that is “loaded”. Not sure if it’s a scent thing or if we have a more confident urgency to our interactions but I definitely see and feel a difference and have read many accounts of guys explaining the same thing.


Yes I hear you. There was actually some talk on this earlier on in the thread. I've been doing a lot of reading up on it. I gave it a try & made it through to 26 days but relapsed. It wasn't so much a relapse on the porn side just the masturbating side. It was the first time I've ever tried retention & was amazed I even got past 2 weeks to be honest. I'm currently on attempt number 2 & 7 days into it so far.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Just a thought…
> Playing out your plan, what if you get to the end and force the separation.
> At that point she breaks into a million pieces and really does repent.
> But in your head, it’s too little too late, which in my mind would be a tragedy if she really was changed. You just couldn’t trust it, which I agree with.
> ...





somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes that isn't a bad idea. I don't think deep down she thinks I would ever go through with it - I maybe wrong. Although at present she really doesn't seem to have a clue just how far gone I am in my head. She was talking about my birthday at the weekend which is in June & asking me what I wanted to do for it. So in her head all is normal. Strange.
> 
> The 1 month plan maybe worth considering. I will give it some thought certainly. I just need to get it clear it my head the best way to handle it all should it come down to it.


That’s game playing and manipulation IMHO. 

It’s fake. It’s the stuff high school girls do to get their boyfriends to fall in line.

Men say what they mean and mean what they say. 

Doing a mock departure is simply that - “Mock.”

Suppose your packing an overnight night bag for this mock departure and she gives a BJ. 
What are you gonna do then? Scrap the rest of your plans and wait and see what she does then? What if she goes back to current status quo and it’s another year and a half and you have to start from Square One? 

I think the key here is you do you. Put yourself first and do what is best for you. 

Coming up with kind of mock departure is still playing to her hoping to change her somehow. That’s still giving her centrality and you chasing her. It’s you still jumping through hoops and being a dancing monkey hoping she’ll bang you.

You do you. Either she’ll straighten herself out and be attracted to you or she won’t. 

Now if she pisses you off at some point before you get to your six month mark and you’ve had enough and are ready to move out and move on - knock yourself out. 

But do it for you, not for her and not as some kind of test for her that YOU will ultimately fail.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> That’s game playing and manipulation IMHO.
> 
> It’s fake. It’s the stuff high school girls do to get their boyfriends to fall in line.
> 
> ...


This whole 6 month plan is manipulation and game playing.
The mock thing is no better or worse.

Adult solutions don’t have to have ‘if i do this then she does that so then we can’ blah blah blah.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This whole 6 month plan is manipulation and game playing.
> The mock thing is no better or worse.
> 
> Adult solutions don’t have to have ‘if i do this then she does that so then we can’ blah blah blah.


It’s not manipulation if he is doing it for him and on his own time table.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Keep pressing forward. 

Personally I would stop the cuddling with her (but you do you). Obviously if you pull away from her and not want to cuddle with her she's going to ask you "what's going on"? At that point you either tell her you're not in the mood or you don't want to or you tell her the truth. Doesn’t appear that you're ready to have that confrontation yet.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This whole 6 month plan is manipulation and game playing.
> The mock thing is no better or worse.
> 
> Adult solutions don’t have to have ‘if i do this then she does that so then we can’ blah blah blah.





oldshirt said:


> It’s not manipulation if he is doing it for him and on his own time table.


Manipulation is kind of in the eye of the beholder to a certain degree. 

What I see as manipulation is if you do something that you don’t really want to do and that you would not normally do, and you are doing for the purpose of changing someone else’s behavior to get them to do what you want.

That is different than doing your own thing because you want to and you are outcome independent, but someone happens to change their behavior anyway.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> It’s not manipulation if he is doing it for him and on his own time table.


Oh is that the distinction?

If she flipped today and wild monkey sex unused, all the steps to detach would be reversed.
The whole reason for this path was to try to gently convince her this is a real issue and she should change to his way.
‘Doing it for myself’ is only a real thing if it’s motivated by the right intent.

Anyway, it’s doesn’t matter so much to me, I really want him to succeed. Marriage is worth additional efforts until it’s not I guess.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Manipulation is kind of in the eye of the beholder to a certain degree.
> 
> What I see as manipulation is if you do something that you don’t really want to do and that you would not normally do, and you are doing for the purpose of changing someone else’s behavior to get them to do what you want.
> 
> That is different than doing your own thing because you want to and you are outcome independent, but someone happens to change their behavior anyway.


Agree, fair minded people can different views of this.
Right or wrong? Not sure...depends on your worldview maybe.
I get that.
**note to self: relativism still sucks.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Agree, fair minded people can different views of this.
> Right or wrong? Not sure...depends on your worldview maybe.
> I get that.
> **note to self: relativism still sucks.


I see your relativism, and raise you the following:

"Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option."

-Maya Angelou

"Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable."

-Farsidejunky

This is the only way to have pure intent in this situation. If he is watching for a response, it is the opposite. 

He is literally attempting to teach his wife in how he wants to be loved. What he must ascertain is if she is actually teachable. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I don't personally view what I'm doing as playing games - others may differ of opinion. I could of done so many things over the past 4 weeks to really mess with her head if I wanted to. I haven't done so simply as it would only make the situation worse & above all else would cause her hurt which I am not about. What I am doing is best for me right now. Just like not having sex for 18 months has been best for my wife. Now it is my turn to put myself first.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I don't personally view what I'm doing as playing games - others may differ of opinion. I could of done so many things over the past 4 weeks to really mess with her head if I wanted to. I haven't done so simply as it would only make the situation worse & above all else would cause her hurt which I am not about. What I am doing is best for me right now. Just like not having sex for 18 months has been best for my wife. Now it is my turn to put myself first.


Exactly. You are just working on living your best life, with or without her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> What I am doing is best for me right now. Just like not having sex for 18 months has been best for my wife.


This above is a pretty profound statement.

I am quoting it because I’m not sure you quite grasp the gravity of it when you said it. 

Read what you wrote again and let it sink in. You said what was best for her for her was to not have a sexual relationship with you. 

Actually we probably need to change that to what IS best for her since she’s still not doing it. 

You need to ask yourself if this is where you want to be.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It is manipulation - albeit disguised as self-improvement - because the end goal is to have his wife to have sex with him again.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> It is manipulation - albeit disguised as self-improvement - because the end goal is to have his wife to have sex with him again.


It may not be by the end though. 

If by the end of his 6 month plan he truly no longer wants to be with her because he sees her for the train wreck she is and he is looking forward to moving out and moving on for himself, then it’s not manipulation.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She’s anxious about a job, about money, about having sex, about him working in a job where there’s women, and the list goes on.
I can’t imagine being married to someone like that. We all have anxieties about bills, work, bosses, life problems….. 
LOTS of people find sex to be a great stress reliever. What’s more stress relieving that knowing at the end of the day, at least one has a living partner that’s romantically interested in you, to come home to

OP, your wife is coming up with every excuse in the book, and writing new ones in order to avoid telling you the truth which is that she never wants or intends to have sex with you again, unless perhaps she dies it to keep you on the short leash to keep providing the things in your relationship that she does want.

You are buying in to all this anxiety crap. 
If she’s this mentally unstable and it appears she’s never going to change, why not just release yourself from this mess?

I do see it as a huge, huge positive that she’s changing medication and getting a job.
The job won’t do anything but give her another source of excuses to draw from, but at least she will have some income so you’re not doing it all as usual. 

Also, I agree that your statement that no sex was what’s best for her……. Ugh.
I think your life would be a lot easier, and a lot happier with someone else. Why be a mule for someone else? Find a player that actually likes being on your team.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> It is manipulation - albeit disguised as self-improvement - because the end goal is to have his wife to have sex with him again.


No, the end goal is for him to have a fulfilling life, with or without her. For him to be in a great place to find happiness with someone who loves him. She gets to decide whether or not she wants to be that person.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Angie?or… said:


> No, the end goal is for him to have a fulfilling life, with or without her. For him to be in a great place to find happiness with someone who loves him. She gets to decide whether or not she wants to be that person.


I don't believe that. He is trying to see if she comes around and have sex with him by changing his behaviour towards her... then, if it doesn't work out, he will be better prepared for his new life. In the meantime, he is manipulating her. If he really wanted a fulfilling life, with someone who loves him, he would move out.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> It may not be by the end though.
> 
> *If by the end of his 6 month plan* he truly no longer wants to be with her because he sees her for the train wreck she is and he is looking forward to moving out and moving on for himself, then it’s not manipulation.


So, he is manipulating her for 6 months... until he goes because it didn't work. If he really wanted to improve his relationship, he would help her by seeking - together - the correct psychological support. But that's not happening. He is applying a blackmail approach towards a person who has serious mental issues. That will work...

He has to decide wether he wants to be in a relationship where he won't have any sex until his wife's issues are solved (probably many more months), or give up, move out and have a happy life. It's not her decision because she is not capable to make a decision on her own. She needs support to take that decision, not be challenged.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> So, he is manipulating her for 6 months... until he goes because it didn't work. If he really wanted to improve his relationship, he would help her by seeking - together - the correct psychological support. But that's not happening. He is applying a blackmail approach towards a person who has serious mental issues. That will work...
> 
> He has to decide wether he wants to be in a relationship where he won't have any sex until his wife's issues are solved (probably many more months), or give up, move out and have a happy life. It's not her decision because she is not capable to make a decision on her own. She needs support to take that decision, not be challenged.


Remember, YOU tried to go the psychological support route and look where it got you - right where you are right now..... nowhere.

I’m not trying to be mean or a **** but to show you’re not connecting the dots and not getting it. 

He’s not doing this to lure her into bed. If he is doing this right, he is rewiring his brain and his perspective to move on with his life with or without her. 

He has been chasing her like a dancing monkey for years and it’s gotten him couch cuddles and the privilege of supporting her and catering to her needs without her reciprocating to meet his needs. 

He is waking up to that but no one just wakes up one day and packs bags. It takes time to rewire your thought process and sense of sense worth after being beaten down so long.

He’s given himself a 6 month plan and time line.

Is it perfect? Probably not but it’s at least a plan.

Will he stumble and fall a few times here and there? Highly likely he will, but what counts is whether get gets back up and keeps going or not. 

This is not a “get-her-back” plan.

It is a “get-on-with-my-own-life” plan. Maybe she will come around and join him in that life. And maybe she won’t.

But what’s key is whether he makes a good life for himself without her or not.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Remember, YOU tried to go the psychological support route and look where it got you - right where you are right now..... nowhere.
> 
> I’m not trying to be mean or a **** but to show you’re not connecting the dots and not getting it.
> 
> *He’s not doing this to lure her into bed. *


You got my story wrong. I tried to do what the OP is trying to do and it went terribly wrong. I did push for therapy and after my wife ultimately refused, I should have left. But she was smart and gave me good sex - albeit not the frequency I wanted - so I didn't leave. Doing the 180 or whatever you call it, IN MY OPINION, doesn't work because you are not dealing with a "normal" person. My story is not gospel, so I'm not saying it can be apply universally... I'm only saying that all the other approaches offered here presume a healthy companion. She is not. That's why I'm advocating dealing with the mental issues first. Unfortunately, this will take a long time and it's been already 18 months of no sex. It's up to the OP to decide whether she is worth the wait and the effort or not.

Regarding the bolded, that's exactly what's missing in their relationship, so he is trying to reinstate their sexual relationship. Which is understandable. You might say that's not his aim anymore, then why stay? It doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> You got my story wrong. I tried to do what the OP is trying to do and it went terribly wrong. I did push for therapy and after my wife ultimately refused, I should have left. But she was smart and gave me good sex - albeit not the frequency I wanted - so I didn't leave. Doing the 180 or whatever you call it, IN MY OPINION, doesn't work because you are not dealing with a "normal" person. My story is not gospel, so I'm not saying it can be apply universally... I'm only saying that all the other approaches offered here presume a healthy companion. She is not. That's why I'm advocating dealing with the mental issues first. Unfortunately, this will take a long time and it's been already 18 months of no sex. It's up to the OP to decide whether she is worth the wait and the effort or not.
> 
> Regarding the bolded, that's exactly what's missing in their relationship, so he is trying to reinstate their sexual relationship. Which is understandable. You might say that's not his aim anymore, then why stay? It doesn't make sense to me.


Because it takes a little bit of time to get used to the fact that you want to divorce. 

How long did YOU take? Oh wait, you aren't even divorced.....


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Damn, have you still not divorced that woman???
Say it ain’t so…..

I agree that he should leave. I disagree with oldshirt to an extent about her “meeting his needs”…. I want a woman that wants me sexually and romantically. If she’s doing me just to meet my needs……. I’m headed down the road. I recently met a woman that is 9 years younger, drop dead gorgeous……..
I asked her if sex was important to her and she said “not really”…….
Do I want to be in a relationship where I get all the sex I want, but it’s no big deal to her at all?
Not me, I want someone that rips my clothes off if I haven’t seen her in a while. 

hence, in my opinion OP needs to head elsewhere because his wife is never gonna be that kind of woman. But he may be different from me…. Nothing wrong with that


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Only if she is a big, fat BABY.
> 
> As a grown adult woman, I can handle being disagreed with...in fact, I would respect a man who was open and honest with me. It certainly wouldn't kill my sex drive for 18 months.
> 
> Only self-important, entitled princesses would react the way this woman has.


My wife would say the same thing but subconsciously there would be some aversion to me over it. She is not a baby either. If I were there and she got into an argument with a family member and I didn't show solidarity with her, it would bother her whether she mentioned it or not. I agree with Catholic D here entirely.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Damn, have you still not divorced that woman???
> Say it ain’t so…..
> 
> I agree that he should leave. I disagree with oldshirt to an extent about her “meeting his needs”…. I want a woman that wants me sexually and romantically.


Tomayto vs tomahto.

My point is he was working hard to cater to and appease her while she was just stiff-arming him and making excuses to not do what he wanted out of the relationship.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Ok I will keep doing what I'm doing. Keeping the pressure on her a little but nothing too much. It must be a good thing as had I not applied this pressure over the past week she wouldn't have said the things she said to me & opened up. However difficult it was for me to hear I'm glad I pushed her. Long term it must of done us both some good & relieved pressure in a different way ie the feelings we have both been keeping inside for months.
> 
> I will initiate at what I class to be the right times. I think I half frightened her saying what I said. It may have woken her up a little to how bad the situation has got.


Ok so I am on Feb 17 in the thread. 

Her opening up seems to be her getting her excuses for not having sex with you out there again and again. 

And they are excuses-- basically she doesn't want to have sex with you. 

I bet if she were single and dating she would be wanting to have sex with men. 

I am going to keep reading and hope things get better by page 48....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> You got my story wrong. I tried to do what the OP is trying to do and it went terribly wrong. I did push for therapy and after my wife ultimately refused, I should have left. But she was smart and gave me good sex - albeit not the frequency I wanted - so I didn't leave. Doing the 180 or whatever you call it, IN MY OPINION, doesn't work because you are not dealing with a "normal" person. My story is not gospel, so I'm not saying it can be apply universally... I'm only saying that all the other approaches offered here presume a healthy companion. She is not. That's why I'm advocating dealing with the mental issues first. Unfortunately, this will take a long time and it's been already 18 months of no sex. It's up to the OP to decide whether she is worth the wait and the effort or not.
> 
> Regarding the bolded, that's exactly what's missing in their relationship, so he is trying to reinstate their sexual relationship. Which is understandable. You might say that's not his aim anymore, then why stay? It doesn't make sense to me.


He can’t fix her mental issues just like you couldn’t fix your wife’s mental issues. 

He can call the shrink and make an appointment but he can’t make her go.

She can be prescribed meds but he can’t force them down her throat. 

They can go to therapy but he can’t make her do what the therapist says. 

His choice is whether to suck it up and live with her mental issues and haul her around to one appointment after another (assuming she’ll go) in hopes that she will straighten out, and even then that wouldn’t necessarily mean that she would desire him sexually. 

Or move on with his own life and ultimately find someone else. 

I agree that for him to have a happy, healthy, active sex life with someone who actually desires him, it is likely going to have to be with someone else. 

But it takes time for people to come to that realization and more time to garner up the determination and giblets to actually do it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Because it takes a little bit of time to get used to the fact that you want to divorce.
> 
> How long did YOU take? Oh wait, you aren't even divorced.....


We are not divorced for financial reasons. You might be happy to be divorced and live in a 1 bedroom flat, I’m not. It’s a piece of paper. You can twist as you like it, I don’t care… 😊


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I think if you do this right, which it seems OP is doing, I don't think this is manipulation. He is doing things for himself and starting the detachment process. If his actions happen to change her attitude and actions then great, they have a chance to work on it together from that point forward.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Damn, have you still not divorced that woman???


See above. I’m not living in a dump because of her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

At least say you have a hot Gf and you’re enjoying life. Give us something 😋


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> He can’t fix her mental issues just like you couldn’t fix your wife’s mental issues.


We are talking about different approaches. He can be supportive, suggest therapy… if she doesn’t agree or do nothing, he can move on. An antagonistic attitude won’t solve anything, imo.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> At least say you have a hot Gf and you’re enjoying life. Give us something 😋


lol… Women are not on my horizon right now. I couldn’t care less. Travelling, yes. I’m enjoying my freedom.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> See above. I’m not living in a dump because of her.


I’d definitely take the one bedroom deal but that’s just me. Anything is worth being unshackled from crazy town. You’re not free … until you are.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think if you do this right, which it seems OP is doing, I don't think this is manipulation. He is doing things for himself and starting the detachment process. If his actions happen to change her attitude and actions then great, they have a chance to work on it together from that point forward.


I would agree with you if that was the plan. But as I recall OP started this process to demonstrate he was serious and thereby invoke the reaction from her that would save the marriage. The secondary objective was to be fully detached and ready to separate/divorce by the end of the 6 month period.

The ‘headfake’ separation I suggested is perfectly in line with the rest of his plan. Try to invoke her reaction to try to save the marriage as a primary goal. Detachment and separation second.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He can get to the point where he is neutral about her - and the lack of desire on her part. And the lack of meeting his needs.

The less he cares - the less he will be affected by her lack of caring about his needs when he decides he is leaving her.

At that point - it’s a matter of stating facts…” honey, you’ve not cared about my needs - so it’s best if I find someone who cares more about being my partner”

That’s all it is. State the facts. She has no way of arguing or justifying anything at that point.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> I’d definitely take the one bedroom deal but that’s just me. Anything is worth being unshackled from crazy town. You’re not free … until you are.


I have nothing to do with her. I’ll take my 8 bedroom house any time. Who cares if she is in the other house. I never see her. I don’t plan to date, so who gives the big F?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> We are not divorced for financial reasons. You might be happy to be divorced and live in a 1 bedroom flat, I’m not. It’s a piece of paper. You can twist as you like it, I don’t care… 😊


Your kids are grown.

Are you telling me no single adults where you live are able to live anywhere but a 1 bedroom flat?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Your kids are grown.
> 
> Are you telling me no single adults where you live are able to live anywhere but a 1 bedroom flat?


I gather it's harder to move to new apartments in Britain. It's somewhat more restrictive than in the States.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Your kids are grown.
> 
> Are you telling me no single adults where you live are able to live anywhere but a 1 bedroom flat?


it’s very simple… we remortgaged many times so, we still have a lot of mortgage to repay, even at our age. This means we won’t make much by selling the houses and when we split the money I can only buy a 1 bedroom flat where we are. Why would I want to do that? You have to move to a much cheaper area to get something decent. This is the reality here.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> it’s very simple… we remortgaged many times so, we still have a lot of mortgage to repay, even at our age. This means we won’t make much by selling the houses and when we split the money I can only buy a 1 bedroom flat where we are. Why would I want to do that? You have to move to a much cheaper area to get something decent. This is the reality here.


I know welfare areas are not good areas to have to live in, especially if you're an older person. 
Too much violence among the denizens.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> I gather it's harder to move to new apartments in Britain. It's somewhat more restrictive than in the States.


There aren’t that many good properties. You pay a lot for a ****hole. It’s very depressing.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> There aren’t that many good properties. You pay a lot for a ****hole. It’s very depressing.


Not to mention our elites are purposefully making our societies ungovernable. 
Living in a poor side of town, of which I have done, is not bad if you trust that you won't be subject to crime. 
It's not the poverty but the violence that comes with it that makes it really depressing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Not to mention our elites are purposefully making our societies ungovernable.
> Living in a poor side of town, of which I have done, is not bad if you trust that you won't be subject to crime.
> It's not the poverty but the violence that comes with it that makes it really depressing.


well, yes, the alternative is not very appealing. I guess @Mr.Married could take my place… 😊


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> We are talking about different approaches. He can be supportive, suggest therapy… if she doesn’t agree or do nothing, he can move on. An antagonistic attitude won’t solve anything, imo.


I’m not sure where you are getting antagonistic attitude. He hasn’t said anything that sounds antagonistic or malicious at all. In fact he’s probably still catering to her comfort and feelings too much. 

The guy is a healthy, vigorous male that wants to still be alive and have a life that includes sexuality. That’s a normal and healthy thing to want. He doesn’t need antagonism to seek that. 

He has a plan and is taking action and doing things. Sometimes that’s all it takes even if the plan is bad and the actions are inept.

You made the conscious choice to do nothing, and there you are. If that’s what works best for you based or your values and mores, so be it.

But someone who chose to live with it and not do anything, really has no right to point fingers and criticize someone else’s plan or the things they are doing.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Your kids are grown.
> 
> Are you telling me no single adults where you live are able to live anywhere but a 1 bedroom flat?


Yeah, you can’t tell me that his only options are his current 8 bedroom house or a 1 bedroom doodoo hole in the ghetto.

This is kind of fodder for a different topic, but this is largely about values.

If he really valued sex and intimacy in a relationship, he would have been long gone many years ago.

People who value intimacy and sexuality do not live for years with people who reject and deny them, they just don’t. They may say they want to have sex, but they really don’t,,, otherwise they would find someone that wants to have sex with them whether they leave and divorce, whether they cheat on the down low or have an open marriage or get with professionals. They don’t just stay.

In absentia values money and the house and financial consistency more than he values intimacy. 

That’s his choice and his perogative and his life. But my point is someone who chooses money over intimacy and chooses to stay, have no right to judge someone else’s plan who is taking actions to take back their life.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I'm just wincing reading some of these posts and jumping in. I don't see anything wrong with @In Absentia sharing his somewhat opposing view. Alongside providing his view, he's also shared what didn't work for him. Even though it's nobody's business as to whether he is now divorced and why/why not, he has answered those questions. In threads such as these, I feel it's good (and healthy even) to have varied input. From that perspective, why can't his view be incorporated into the discussion of this thread, even if that's challenged, as a continued way to guide the OP; rather than essentially throwing back the choices that @In Absentia made for his own life back in his face?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes that isn't a bad idea. I don't think deep down she thinks I would ever go through with it - I maybe wrong. Although at present she really doesn't seem to have a clue just how far gone I am in my head. She was talking about my birthday at the weekend which is in June & asking me what I wanted to do for it. So in her head all is normal. Strange.
> 
> 
> 
> The 1 month plan maybe worth considering. I will give it some thought certainly. I just need to get it clear it my head the best way to handle it all should it come down to it.


I wouldn’t do this. Work out the plan you have in place. Don’t play games. When you do end things, end it. Don’t look back. 

If you leave, she will do anything she has to to get you back. It wouldn’t be because she wants to have sex with you. There is only one thing that would prove it’s because she wants to, her doing it before your planned date to end it without any hints from you. Don’t ask or force her hand for sex, leave it completely in her hands.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Ok it's been interesting reading all the different points of view. Little did I know when I posted my original message I would get all this interest/feedback/advice etc!

I can tell you I am in a better head space now than I was 4 weeks ago when I first started posting on here. It is tough however as I am detaching from her in many ways but on the flip side that goes against what I want deep down - to fix my marriage & to have regular sex with my wife. The job/medication swap will be a big thing whether it be good or bad I don't know right now but the job doesn't start for 2 weeks so that is her side of things. I back off from it. That is one thing I've noticed - if she is talking to me about things I am not listening much these days. She'll ask me a question at the end of her talking & I've realised I haven't even been listening.

I am trying to focus on me & get my head right. It's only been in the past 4 weeks that I've started to genuinely consider leaving for the first time ever. I had never thought about it before. Marriage to me was as per the vows. So for the first time ever these thoughts are coming into my head & I'm imaging what life would be like if I left. It takes time to switch that round in your head when it's been the complete opposite for 9 years. 

Part of me deep down is extremely p*ssed with her. I'm sat here thinking why are you being like this? How can this not be bothering you? BUT I am gradually getting past all that. That puts my life in her hands & I've been doing that for too long now. 

I'm taking it day by day but I'm trusting in the process - I'm in a better place today than 4 weeks ago.....I trust I will be in a better place in another 4 weeks time.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, you can’t tell me that his only options are his current 8 bedroom house or a 1 bedroom doodoo hole in the ghetto.
> 
> This is kind of fodder for a different topic, but this is largely about values.
> 
> ...


We did have plenty of sex in the last 10 years, we compromised, that's why I stayed. When she turned the tap off, we separated. We are not divorcing because it doesn't make sense financially. This is the short story. If I didn't value intimacy, we would be still together in a sexless marriage. I'm tired to explain. It's easy to pontificate when you are not living the issues. I have said all I had to say here. I'm out.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> well, yes, the alternative is not very appealing. I guess @Mr.Married could take my place… 😊


I reckon a dump in Texas is a lot better than a dump where you live now that I think about it.
The remark from jonty about the crime is very true.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I'm just wincing reading some of these posts and jumping in. I don't see anything wrong with @In Absentia sharing his somewhat opposing view. Alongside providing his view, he's also shared what didn't work for him. Even though it's nobody's business as to whether he is now divorced and why/why not, he has answered those questions. In threads such as these, I feel it's good (and healthy even) to have varied input. From that perspective, why can't his view be incorporated into the discussion of this thread, even if that's challenged, as a continued way to guide the OP; rather than essentially throwing back the choices that @In Absentia made for his own life back in his face?


Thank you for your balanced input. Very much appreciated @heartsbeating.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Let’s do a little mental exercise. Let’s say a 350lb bearded woman with bad breath and rotten teeth were try to lure you into the bedroom and trying to rub oil all over you in hopes you will push the fat rolls up out the way of her jay jay and dive in.
> 
> What will be your response to that??
> 
> ...


yes a mate would have to be non-repulsive for it to work.

But that mate would NOT need to be a super model either. The fact that they are doing sexy things to stimulate you would be enough, coupled with the basic knowledge that you loved them, to get you horny that way.

Sometimes people who have a perfectly serviceable body, but shy away from sexual contact since "I am not perfect", or "I am no longer young". I was just saying that a sexy attitude trumps all of that.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Let’s do a little mental exercise. Let’s say a 350lb bearded woman with bad breath and rotten teeth were try to lure you into the bedroom and trying to rub oil all over you in hopes you will push the fat rolls up out the way of her jay jay and dive in.
> 
> What will be your response to that??
> 
> ...


I'd have the most unique sexual experience in my life. I'm thinking. I'm thinking.

I am in agreement that the willingness to keep fit and look good is a gift to the spouse, telling they are worth the effort you put into yourself.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

After almost a thousand responses, this thread's now just going in circles.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> I'm just wincing reading some of these posts and jumping in. I don't see anything wrong with @In Absentia sharing his somewhat opposing view. Alongside providing his view, he's also shared what didn't work for him. Even though it's nobody's business as to whether he is now divorced and why/why not, he has answered those questions. In threads such as these, I feel it's good (and healthy even) to have varied input. From that perspective, why can't his view be incorporated into the discussion of this thread, even if that's challenged, as a continued way to guide the OP; rather than essentially throwing back the choices that @In Absentia made for his own life back in his face?


He was criticizing the OP for waiting 4 more months to see if things improved, instead of leaving right now. I thought that was incredibly hypocritical, and so said so.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> He was criticizing the OP for waiting 4 more months to see if things improved, instead of leaving right now. I thought that was incredibly hypocritical, and so said so.


If you are talking about me, where did I say that? I said he should not do a 180 or something similar because she has mental issues, and therefore it's a counterproductive approach. They should seek external professional help - together. And this could take months. I'm all for him staying for the time being, but only if his wife is cooperative.

Also, you keep ignoring what I say about what happened in my marriage in the last few years, so it's like talking to deaf people, like we say where I'm from...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> If you are talking about me, where did I say that? I said he should not do a 180 or something similar because she has mental issues, and therefore it's a counterproductive approach. They should seek external professional help - together. And this could take months. I'm all for him staying for the time being, but only if his wife is cooperative.


I'll try to find the post, hang on...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I don't believe that. He is trying to see if she comes around and have sex with him by changing his behaviour towards her... then, if it doesn't work out, he will be better prepared for his new life. In the meantime, he is manipulating her. If he really wanted a fulfilling life, with someone who loves him, he would move out.


Here is is, IA. You said OP doing something different right now behaviorally is _manipulating her_ and that if he really wanted a fulfilling life _he would just move out_.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Here is is, IA. You said OP doing something different right now behaviorally is _manipulating her_ and that if he really wanted a fulfilling life _he would just move out_.


yes, he should move out instead of manipulating her. If he went for my approach, he would stay and support her, for how long it takes. Stop using only the bits that serve your agenda...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah but you ARE still in a sexless marriage. You’re just using verbal judo to try to say that you aren’t.
> 
> -You’re still married.
> 
> ...


-You’re still married. - yes - financial reasons

-You’re still supporting and paying for her.- No. I never had to support her. She has her own job.

-You’re not involved or even seeking involvement with anyone else. - My choice

So you very much are in a sexless marriage. - *You ignore the existence of the word "separation" now?*

This is one of the most bizarre replies I ever read from you and you are, let's say, a touch prone to pindaric flights... you are grasping at straws... I rest my case.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> -You’re still married. - yes - financial reasons
> 
> -You’re still supporting and paying for her.- No. I never had to support her. She has her own job.
> 
> ...


But it's true. You are still married and not having sex. Sure you are "separated" by a few walls, but you are still living under the same roof with the woman you are married to and not having sex. That sure sounds like a sexless marriage to me. It is what it is, just own it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> But it's true. You are still married and not having sex. Sure you are "separated" by a few walls, but you are still living under the same roof with the woman you are married to and not having sex. That sure sounds like a sexless marriage to me. It is what it is, just own it.


We live in 2 houses next to each other are separated and free to do what we want. Ok, if you want to call it sexless marriage... I think your comments just speak for themselves. Embarrassing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think this threadjack should be closed. It does no good to the OP, who's surely been put off by all these pointless and baseless personal attacks.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It isn't a complete TJ. It doesn't hurt to hear about how other sexless marriages have progressed and end up.


Yes to this above. 

None of us are professional marriage counselors or sex therapists. We are all just normal people that have been through life’s challenges and bumps in the road and can offer what we have learned and experienced. 

There is value in seeing how different people have navigated their hoops and hurdles and have turned out. .....even if it can serve as a cautionary tale on what a particular OP may want to avoid. 

If @In Absentia wants to consider himself a free man because he lives 50 yards from his wife and has an 8 bedroom house to himself but doesn’t date or see anyone else - that is his choice and perogative. 

Perhaps an OP will see that and think that is the perfect solution for himself as well.

And another OP may see that and say no way no how! And dedicate himself to doing the opposite.

The same can be said of all of our sagas and situations.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> -You’re still supporting and paying for her.- No. I never had to support her. She has her own job.


Ok I stand corrected on that. 

And I am glad to hear that you are at least having to foot all her bills.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

So OP has NOT had sex with his wife since the thread started, correct?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> We are talking about different approaches. He can be supportive, suggest therapy… if she doesn’t agree or do nothing, he can move on. An antagonistic attitude won’t solve anything, imo.


Who on here has ever suggested an "antagonistic attitude"...?? You were discussing whether him detaching was manipulation compared to just leaving...at least, that's what I thought you were saying.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Personal attacks? Just speaking facts, but I didn't know you were in two separate houses. You mentioned an 8 bed house and assumed you were under the same roof.
> 
> It isn't a complete TJ. It doesn't hurt to hear about how other sexless marriages have progressed and end up.


IIRC, they live in UK semi-detached houses that share an exterior wall (what would be called a duplex in my area).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Yes to this above.
> 
> None of us are professional marriage counselors or sex therapists. We are all just normal people that have been through life’s challenges and bumps in the road and can offer what we have learned and experienced.
> 
> ...


Their houses share an exterior wall — semi-detached in UK terms (I think I remember that from past discussions anyway).


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

4 more weeks and still no sex? That doesn't sound like a wife who cares about meeting her husband's sexual or even emotional needs. 

With OP moving forward with making his social life full and working on self improvement, she will eventually make a move or she will be left behind. I can already detect a change in OP's demeanor and self confidence. There's no way that his wife's not noticing. That she's starting a new job, may distract her a bit but it's hard for her to ignore than her husband is not around as much and is less responsive to her. 

I just hope that she doesn't gravitate to any guy at the job, who may hit on her. I've notice a LOT of threads of SAHMs that when they finally go back to work, fall into an affair, within a few months of starting the job.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> We live in 2 houses next to each other are separated and free to do what we want. Ok, if you want to call it sexless marriage... I think your comments just speak for themselves. Embarrassing.


But does SHE know that your marriage is over? Because if I remember right, the original reason you didn't leave was because she had a mental breakdown over you wanting to end the marriage. So she is ok with that now? Or are you staying there to maintain the illusion for her that your marriage isn't over?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jsmart said:


> I just hope that she doesn't gravitate to any guy at the job, who may hit on her. I've notice a LOT of threads of SAHMs that when they finally go back to work, fall into an affair, within a few months of starting the job.


I'm not saying I want this to happen, but it would clarify her true feelings. We have no idea if she isn't into sex at all, or just not into sex with OP.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> yes, he should move out instead of manipulating her. If he went for my approach, he would stay and support her, for how long it takes. Stop using only the bits that serve your agenda...


I honestly don't think the OP is manipulating her. He is TRYING to see if anything can get back on track, and at the same time HE is getting mentally prepared to leave her. He has said he is starting to detach, and that this issue isn't on his mind as much. He is moving on with his life -- if she wakes up and rejoins the marriage, there may be a chance, but I think the OP is getting to the point where he doesn't care if that happens or not.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Folks, this thread is not about me. We are separated, living in 2 houses next to each other. You can call it whatever you want, even a sexless marriage... lol 

I'm happy where I am now, in my life, so I just don't care what people think. No point in discussing it, because you don't believe me. Fair enough. I can't change your minds.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jsmart said:


> 4 more weeks and still no sex? That doesn't sound like a wife who cares about meeting her husband's sexual or even emotional needs.
> 
> With OP moving forward with making his social life full and working on self improvement, she will eventually make a move or she will be left behind. I can already detect a change in OP's demeanor and self confidence. There's no way that his wife's not noticing. That she's starting a new job, may distract her a bit but it's hard for her to ignore than her husband is not around as much and is less responsive to her.
> 
> I just hope that she doesn't gravitate to any guy at the job, who may hit on her. I've notice a LOT of threads of SAHMs that when they finally go back to work, fall into an affair, within a few months of starting the job.


Probably the best thing that could happen to OP is that she does what you describe, which I agree seems common.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Probably the best thing that could happen to OP is that she does what you describe, which I agree seems common.


Ev, if she were to do that, it would prove that her problem is having sex with OP, not fear of pregnancy, or of being heard, or other such excuses she’s been serving up.

Personally, I’m still hoping that the OP’s self improvement drive and his new zest for living his life, will trigger his wife to step up and be a wife. He’s implementing dread, which can be a great motivator. If not, he will be off to to play eligible bachelor as a confident man that has a lively social life.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I can tell you I am in a better head space now than I was 4 weeks ago when I first started posting on here. It is tough however as I am detaching from her in many ways but on the flip side that goes against what I want deep down - to fix my marriage & to have regular sex with my wife. The job/medication swap will be a big thing whether it be good or bad I don't know right now but the job doesn't start for 2 weeks so that is her side of things. I back off from it. That is one thing I've noticed - if she is talking to me about things I am not listening much these days. She'll ask me a question at the end of her talking & I've realised I haven't even been listening.


Honestly, I think this is kind of mean. It sounds like she is trying to engage you in conversation and you're basically ignoring her. Either listen or tell her that you are not really in the mood for conversation and go do something else. You are living with her. She is your wife. You don't have to be nice per se, but be kind.

I'm reading a book by John Gottman called What Makes Love Last?. There are several parts of the book where it reminded me of your situation. Gottman talks about how a single incident can ruin a marriage if it's not resolved. He gives instructions on how to resolve the issue. I think this book could save your marriage and highly recommend that you read it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator warning:- Quit the threadjacking, please.*


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Part of me deep down is extremely p*ssed with her. I'm sat here thinking why are you being like this? How can this not be bothering you? BUT I am gradually getting past all that. That puts my life in her hands & I've been doing that for too long now.


This is a perfect example of removing yourself from the victim chair. The moment you realize you are in a prison of your own making, it is hard to be mad at her. After all, she isn't the one keeping you in this situation. All of the projection of anger then begins to fall away, and all you are left with is yourself...and a mirror.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> Honestly, I think this is kind of mean. It sounds like she is trying to engage you in conversation and you're basically ignoring her. Either listen or tell her that you are not really in the mood for conversation and go do something else. You are living with her. She is your wife. You don't have to be nice per se, but be kind.


I understand where you are coming from and in a normal, healthy relationship with mutual respect and compassion and reciprocation, I would agree with you. 

But we do need to keep things in perspective. He has been accommodating her while his wants and needs have fallen on her deaf ears for 19 months now. 

This hasn’t been a case of her not being in the mood or them being too busy and stressed to connect to their satisfaction- she has been outright rejecting him, telling him no and making up various excuses..... for 19 months.

Yes, it can be construed as being rude to not give her his full attention - but quite frankly, after 19 months she’s lucky he’s talking to her AT ALL. 

Countless men would have dumped her azz and sent her packing by now. 

Many of those would have even been fully involved with other women in serious relationships by now.

A number of those would even have children and families with other women by now. 

So while I agree that he may be violating some common rules of social courtesies, in the big scheme of things, she’s lucky he’s been as tolerant as he has been. 

Most men would have already sent her pack’n.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I understand where you are coming from and in a normal, healthy relationship with mutual respect and compassion and reciprocation, I would agree with you.
> 
> But we do need to keep things in perspective. He has been accommodating her while his wants and needs have fallen on her deaf ears for 19 months now.
> 
> ...


Now that I’ve thought about it a little more, I think he is actually in his right to tell her she can talk to him about matters that pertain to the kids and if someone needs to pick up the cat from the vet etc

And that he would be agreeable to sit down and have a heart to heart discussion about their relationship and marital issues, but other than that if she is not willing to address their marital issues or get into MC, then he doesn’t really have anything else to discuss with her as he gets his affairs in order. 

If she isn’t willing to discuss their marriage and future together, then their is no need to concern himself with her aches and pains or what her Aunt Beulah said or how rude the lady at the check out counter at Wal Mart was. 

There are girl friends and boyfriends. You have a sexual relationship with your boyfriend and you talk about your aches and pains and the Karen’s of the world with your girlfriends and he is done being her girlfriend. 

I realize he’s not at that point yet.......YET. 

But if she continues to refuse to address these issues and continues to disregard him and their marriage, he is perfectly in his right to no longer be one of her girlfriends.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think that having another talk with her would be more effective, if he follows the advice of John Gottman. It might save the marriage. I know it's easy to say that she's messed up and she's not worth it, but this is his wife we are talking about. He loves her and wants the issues resolved.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

jsmart said:


> I just hope that she doesn't gravitate to any guy at the job, who may hit on her. I've notice a LOT of threads of SAHMs that when they finally go back to work, fall into an affair, within a few months of starting the job.


I’m still of the mind that she’s already following another path. Or has been. I know, I know, not a popular opinion. But it has never been seriously investigated and she is a human woman (meaning she likely has human desires). Sooooo Hmm.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP has gone 18 months with no sex (rare for a married man to do this) and told his wife there’s a problem, and now it’s been ANOTHER month, no sex. STILL, he hasn’t seen an attorney to even find out what the future without her would look like financially. 
I think it should be obvious he’s not going to have a wife that WANTS sex with him. It doesn’t even appear that duty sex will ever happen. OP hasn’t mentioned that he’s even been rejected lately (not attempting??)

Detaching is good, her new job is better, but I have to wonder how much detaching is going on. I know how hard detaching is with no contact at all. They still cuddle. I don’t see detachment happening. I see accepting more of the same. But I’m hoping I’m wrong.

reading books and talking to her, just doesn’t seem productive to me. Every time he attempts to have a conversation with her about this, she pulls the anxiety card or the defensive routine. She has given him nothing whatsoever to work with. Doesn’t sound like a wife to me.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Sorry I'm half asleep typing this and want to tell op he is doing good with him putting himself 1st, and improving all things in himself. In return with his plan he will become stronger from it, more confident, so if his wife still never wants sex ever again, then leaving her would be much much easier, and hes already made plans to move out. 19 plus months now and still no change or improvement from the wife even after op having conversations about it. If the wife truly cared she would seek marriage councillors and a good sex therapist. If she loved and adored her husband she would also work on herself and prove she wants to be better wife all round. A sex therapist would give them home work to, to bring sex into the marriage. If she won't do anything and can't see a problem, then the op will find it easier to leave and move on without her. She needs a huge wake up call, and see what she is about to lose. It seems his wife has held a grudge for 2 and a half years so therfore punishing him. Can understand a week or two at most, but 2 and a half years, that is controlling and disgusting, abusive. Keep doing your plan on, getting stronger, and preparing to leave. I really don't see her changing at all. She may put an act on for a few weeks, but you'd be in this exact situation with her again, maybe even worse. There are many women who would make you a happier man, love you, care about you, want sex as much as you do and possible even having a baby of your own. As for your wife she has a cheek when other women even just glance at you, she gets jealous. Start smiling at these woman lol, will boost your confidence even more. I look forward to your next update. Be careful if wife starts head games, tries to make you guilty, accusing you of abandoning her etc etc etc. She is 95% of all problems. She will try and change your mind. Remember how far you've come so far. Keep moving your things out slowly, keep going out, keep seeing friends and family. Go do hobbies, meet other people and get a good support system in place, keep putting yourself first, keep telling yourself you deserve to be loved and deserve happiness. I bet if your wife started a new relationship she would have lots of sex with her new man. Have seen this scenario so many times. Refused to have sex with husband for years and years, telling him they don't enjoy sex as one example, to then go and have sex multiple times a day with another man. My advice would be to carry on improving yourself, and detaching from your wife. She doesn't deserve you. It's always been about herself. What she has done in my eyes are unforgivable. Anyway didn't expect my comment to get so long lol. My prediction is you will leave her because I can't see her improving and if she did try it would all be fake. Keep you quiet for a while and then back to no more sex ever again. Wishing you all the best with life moving forward.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> OP has gone 18 months with no sex (rare for a married man to do this) and told his wife there’s a problem, and now it’s been ANOTHER month, no sex. STILL, he hasn’t seen an attorney to even find out what the future without her would look like financially.
> I think it should be obvious he’s not going to have a wife that WANTS sex with him. It doesn’t even appear that duty sex will ever happen. OP hasn’t mentioned that he’s even been rejected lately (not attempting??)
> 
> Detaching is good, her new job is better, but I have to wonder how much detaching is going on. I know how hard detaching is with no contact at all. They still cuddle. I don’t see detachment happening. I see accepting more of the same. But I’m hoping I’m wrong.
> ...


A marriage worth having shouldn’t be this hard.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It may be useful for you to see an attorney at so you know what the laws are in your area - should you make a decision in the future.

Either way - if you leave her - it’s likely better monetarily for you if she is working. 

I can’t for the long fe of me understand why anyone would choose to stay in a marriage where the spouse isn’t keeping their vows. She knows she doesn’t want participating as a wife yet she doesn’t DO anything to help herself change things. She knows you’re unhappy yet she doesn’t do her part to help you.

You can’t make her change - and since she doesn’t have it in her to change herself - expect things to remain exactly as they are now - the change comes FROM YOU.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I am still around. Nothing much changing but then again I don't expect anything much to for now. My wife starting her new job on the 11th will be interesting though. I've been focusing on me & the sex side really hasn't been getting to me. Yes it's still there deep down but for the moment I'm getting on with my life. In the back of my mind also I know the new job will most likely change things one way or another. It's waiting to see on that side to see how it all works. I know she is working in the office twice a week & then 3 days at home but to start with she maybe in the office more. We will have to wait & see what is said on her first day.

The new medication she is on seems to be chilling her out a little more & I know a big reason why she went on them is because the pressure of finding a job. Now that pressure has gone & she is on new medication I expect to see a change in her which will of course affect me.

In my head I'm waiting to see how she gets on from the 11th onwards from her side. From mine it's business as usual - lots of exercise, fresh air, keeping busy. I've set up an office at my parents house now should I need it & I've moved some money around to make it much more tougher for her to get her hands on if we were to part ways.

I will update when needed but certainly the week starting on the 11th there will be an update.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> . From mine it's business as usual - lots of exercise, fresh air, keeping busy. I've set up an office at my parents house now should I need it & I've moved some money around to make it much more tougher for her to get her hands on if we were to part ways.


That is a very good step.

I would advise to see a family law attorney in your jurisdiction to at least become informed of what your rights and responsibilities would be in a divorce and what you can be doing now that would help protect yourself and give you the best outcome should a divorce occur.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The main problem is - you are waiting for your wife to change. She likely won’t change - this is who she is and you can’t accept that.

So that’s not a loving relationship. You wanting her to change. 

You either accept her the way she is or you leave.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> That is a very good step.
> 
> I would advise to see a family law attorney in your jurisdiction to at least become informed of what your rights and responsibilities would be in a divorce and what you can be doing now that would help protect yourself and give you the best outcome should a divorce occur.


Yes I will be. I already altered my will at the beginning of this year. Something inside me was just telling me to change a few things around. I won't go into it but lets just say she won't be seeing much of what I own should it come down to that!

I've been doing research online as to what she would be entitled to already but I agree going the professional route will cover me better.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> The main problem is - you are waiting for your wife to change. She likely won’t change - this is who she is and you can’t accept that.
> 
> So that’s not a loving relationship. You wanting her to change.
> 
> You either accept her the way she is or you leave.


Yes I do agree with you to an extent. I am waiting on her. I am waiting for her to change. Will she? I would say it's 80/20 against that happening. It's not like she has been like this forever though. For 7 years of our 9 she was a lot more easy going. The argument changed things in my opinion. I was an idiot & didn't realise it or action it sooner. I will live with that.

So yes in a way I am waiting for her to change. Not to change to someone new......to change BACK to how she USED to be for the majority of our marriage. But don't think I am just sitting here waiting. I am getting on with my own life & getting my head together ready should I be leaving.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I do agree with you to an extent. I am waiting on her. I am waiting for her to change. Will she? I would say it's 80/20 against that happening. It's not like she has been like this forever though. For 7 years of our 9 she was a lot more easy going. The argument changed things in my opinion. I was an idiot & didn't realise it or action it sooner. I will live with that.
> 
> So yes in a way I am waiting for her to change. Not to change to someone new......to change BACK to how she USED to be for the majority of our marriage. But don't think I am just sitting here waiting. I am getting on with my own life & getting my head together ready should I be leaving.


I know the information hasn't changed all that much since op, but the reflection, understanding of the situation that's gone on since February is obvious here. Congrats on that.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Are you attempting to initiate sex with her? That should not stop. Yes, keep doing your thing, but don’t stop initiating. Let her have to shoot you down. When she does, leave the house to hang out with a buddy, do your hobby, or just go for a run.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I do agree with you to an extent. I am waiting on her. I am waiting for her to change. Will she? I would say it's 80/20 against that happening. It's not like she has been like this forever though. For 7 years of our 9 she was a lot more easy going. The argument changed things in my opinion. I was an idiot & didn't realise it or action it sooner. I will live with that.
> 
> So yes in a way I am waiting for her to change. Not to change to someone new......to change BACK to how she USED to be for the majority of our marriage. But don't think I am just sitting here waiting. I am getting on with my own life & getting my head together ready should I be leaving.


One argument doesn’t change a wife’s feelings for her husband and ruin a sexual relationship.
She was looking for an excuse to stop having sex with you. People that want some sex because they have a healthy lido don’t stop having sex forever over one argument.

You play a role in her life she wants.
It’s just not the role of romantic partner.
You haven’t said if you’re still initiating and she’s turning you down. 
If not, you are the same person you were for 18 months.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> One argument doesn’t change a wife’s feelings for her husband and ruin a sexual relationship.
> She was looking for an excuse to stop having sex with you. People that want some sex because they have a healthy lido don’t stop having sex forever over one argument.
> 
> You play a role in her life she wants.
> ...


He is not initiating... his wife is starting a new job in 10 days time and he is waiting to see what happens to her... I thought he was clear about this.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> He is not initiating... his wife is starting a new job in 10 days time and *he is waiting to see what happens to her.*.. I thought he was clear about this.


Actually, what he said was:


somedayyouwillfindme said:


> So yes in a way I am waiting for her to change. Not to change to someone new......to change BACK to how she USED to be for the majority of our marriage


Which we all know that that's a fool's errand. Although he's moving ahead (somewhat), he's still holding his life in a sprinkle of a hope (like if that will actually happen). He's not waiting to see what happens to her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> He's not waiting to see what happens to her.


I think it's semantics... waiting for her to change when she start her job... so he is waiting to see what happens to her...  Maybe I'm thick.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Things will not change until you completely change your outlook. You have made some progress but if you’re waiting on your wife to change, that is being reactive, which is passive. As the man, you need to be the active one that makes her react. You must continue to initiate or you like @oldshirt said, you’re still in the same boat that you’ve been in for the last 18 months.

Start initiating again today. When you make your move, act as you’re expecting to have sex with your wife not as though you’re expecting to be shout down. Of course don’t wait until that time to start laying the groundwork. Start trying to romance her hours before.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> He is not initiating... his wife is starting a new job in 10 days time and he is waiting to see what happens to her... I thought he was clear about this.


Ridiculous, what does a job prospect have to do with a sexual relationship. Apparently you’re right, though, all he’s doing is waiting for ………. Nothing.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> One argument doesn’t change a wife’s feelings for her husband and ruin a sexual relationship.


It most certainly can. When a person finds something out that changes how they view their spouse or the relationship, it can shut everything down, or in a more positive scenario, it can highlight just how great someone is. Clearly, something changed after the argument and somedayyouwillfindme's absence for several days. He said things haven't been the same since and she has radically changed in her attitude and behavior towards him.

@somedayyouwillfindme, this very scenario is addressed in the book What Makes Love Last?, by John Gottman. I hope you decide to get a copy of the book and follow the directions on how to resolve the issue. There are benefits to what you are doing now in taking responsibility for your life and not depending on someone else for your happiness, but if you want to save your marriage, I think reading that book will be an eye opener for you and may be a turning point.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Ridiculous, what does a job prospect have to do with a sexual relationship. Apparently you’re right, though, all he’s doing is waiting for ………. Nothing.


I will let the OP answer this one.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> The main problem is - you are waiting for your wife to change. She likely won’t change - this is who she is and you can’t accept that.
> 
> So that’s not a loving relationship. You wanting her to change.
> 
> You either accept her the way she is or you leave.


The premise is flawed. 

I can expect better from my wife without changing her core, especially if I have seen better from her for the majority of our past.

What I am doing in this process is seeing if the negative traits are simply a season she is going through, or if it is in fact a permanent change. 





Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Ridiculous, what does a job prospect have to do with a sexual relationship. Apparently you’re right, though, all he’s doing is waiting for ……….  Nothing.





jsmart said:


> Are you attempting to initiate sex with her? That should not stop. Yes, keep doing your thing, but don’t stop initiating. Let her have to shoot you down. When she does, leave the house to hang out with a buddy, do your hobby, or just go for a run.


No I am not initiating anymore. To me personally it felt like I was just handing her my life on a plate & giving her all the power by doing that. Giving her the power to knock me down each time - I am done with it. I am not doing anything sexual towards her at all now. Some may say that is a bad thing which goes completely against the outcome I want. For me I look at it that something needs to change drastically to what I have been doing for the best part of 18 months to see a change. Have I? - No. Will I? We shall see. The main reason above all else I'm not initiating however is for my self respect & to take back a lot of the power I gave to her oh so easily. One other big reason is since I started this thread I'm just not desperate for her to have sex with me like I was 5 weeks ago. I gave her WAY too much power over my life which slowly but surely I feel I am taking back & switching round. Takes time though.

In answer to 'waiting' for her. I am waiting to see how this job affects not only her but me & our day to day life at home. @Evinrude58 I believe a job can make a huge difference to someone's mood/libido. It may not for you & I admit I wouldn't need a job to alter mine but some do. I am not sat here waiting for her. I am getting on with my life during the next 4.5 months as planned. I 100% agree work/jobs had nothing to do with our argument or the lack of sex over the past 18 months. However in recent months since Christmas the lack of money & pressure of no job has been getting to her badly though & not helping things at all. As I explained in previous messages she even had a couple of panic attacks which I witnessed & it pushed her to switch medication for the first time in 8 years or so. But I do agree if someone really really wanted sex they would have it so don't think I'm sat here believing this job will be a miracle cure because I'm not. I'm not saying the job will alter a thing sex wise but it will change our life in some form. I have given it 4.5 months so lets see what happens.

On the point about one argument not changing someone's view of another - I fully disagree. One argument can absolutely change a persons view of another human being. I don't agree that my wife should still be holding onto our argument 20 months later because it has been spoken about endlessly. Most would have accepted it & moved on - she hasn't which could be her downfall long term. She has an inability to leave an argument behind & this one is the worst of all. Ironic really seen as though she kick started it & I was simply responding to her after hours of her pushing me. As I say long term it may well be her down fall which I will make VERY clear as I leave.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes I do agree with you to an extent. I am waiting on her. I am waiting for her to change. Will she? I would say it's 80/20 against that happening. It's not like she has been like this forever though. For 7 years of our 9 she was a lot more easy going. The argument changed things in my opinion. I was an idiot & didn't realise it or action it sooner. I will live with that.
> 
> So yes in a way I am waiting for her to change. Not to change to someone new......to change BACK to how she USED to be for the majority of our marriage. But don't think I am just sitting here waiting. I am getting on with my own life & getting my head together ready should I be leaving.


I will say this again. She is the one that told you to leave several times during the argument. You left, went to your parents house to cool off. No big deal, this isn’t the reason that she stopped having sex with you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She might be pissed that she lost the argument. If she can’t let it go for 20 months, good possibly.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Maybe not but it times in perfectly. Things went downhill after that. When I breached the subject she instantly mentioned that argument too. There maybe other underlying reasons as well but those two things instantly point to that argument.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> She might be pissed that she lost the argument. If she can’t let it go for 20 months, good possibly.


Maybe. I don't think it's that. I think it's one of two things. Either I p*ssed her off by having the audacity to leave or the things I said to her severely hurt her during the argument. I think it's one of the two. I don't regret either though to be honest.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Ok. Unless you called your wife things like an F'ng W, and other such insults, no one hangs on to an argument this long to the extent they don't have sex. People argue. Arguments get heated. Some are nasty. Healthy people move on.

A woman who won't have sex almost 2 years later is seriously damaged. I don't know you're ins and outs, but I feel this is hopeless. You're hanging around and being seen as a martyr. You could make a decision and move on. Seriously, she's not going to have sex with you. She's not. 

So knowing that, what are you getting out of this other than ticking off days, getting advice/sympathy/pats on the back here?

2 years. You won't get them back. Over an argument? This is not going to end well.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You're using the argument to avoid the real issue. What is the real issue? Surely you know it's not a verbal back and forth.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snowbum said:


> Ok. Unless you called your wife things like an F'ng W, and other such insults, no one hangs on to an argument this long to the extent they don't have sex. People argue. Arguments get heated. Some are nasty. Healthy people move on.
> 
> A woman who won't have sex almost 2 years later is seriously damaged. I don't know you're ins and outs, but I feel this is hopeless. You're hanging around and being seen as a martyr. You could make a decision and move on. Seriously, she's not going to have sex with you. She's not.
> 
> ...


I agree, if it's the argument. But still, it doesn't make sense because she wants cuddles and hugs from him. Unless she is rejecting him for sex subconsciously. If that's true, she needs therapy.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

If you’re not initiating, she can assume that you’re fine not having sex. You have already let so much time go by without initiating, which has had a self neutering effect on you. By initiating, you’re forcing her to face that she is the unloving spouse that is destroying the marriage and it will be a reminder to you that your needs are not being met. 

Unless you’re some psycho that’s going to rape a woman or some superstar that has women throwing their panties at them, all men give women their power when it comes to sex. So get over the fear of rejection and restart initiating because you will face rejection in the singles world too.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I think it's obvious you honestly don't feel she'll change and if you look deeper, you don't want her to. I say that based on your comments about the argument. You haven't let it go either. What is it that benefits you from staying? You're passive aggressive and not even willing to come out and say have sex or I leave. I think you both have issues.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> I think it's obvious you honestly don't feel she'll change and if you look deeper, you don't want her to. I say that based on your comments about the argument. You haven't let it go either. What is it that benefits you from staying? You're passive aggressive and not even willing to come out and say have sex or I leave. I think you both have issues.


I have let the argument go. I let it go within a month of it happening. I do blame her as it was factually her doing but I let it go a LONG time ago.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I believe a job can make a huge difference to someone's mood/libido.


Just be careful and attentive to this. As things stand between you guys, you never know, she might take it to another level in her work environment, and find her mojo there. it happens all the time, you actually can read it in many of the infidelities cases over here. keep an eye on it.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Just be careful and attentive to this. As things stand between you guys, you never know, she might take it to another level in her work environment, and find her mojo there. it happens all the time, you actually can read it in many of the infidelities cases over here. keep an eye on it.


Yes will do. I'm well aware the job may not be a good thing. It will change things but how is anyone's guess!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes will do. I'm well aware the job may not be a good thing. It will change things but how is anyone's guess!


well, (almost) anything is better than the status quo!


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I agree, if it's the argument. But still, it doesn't make sense because she wants cuddles and hugs from him. Unless she is rejecting him for sex subconsciously. If that's true, she needs therapy.


Yeah I know it's hard to get my head round. At the end of the day I have no idea what's going on in her head. I sometimes doubt she does either which is why I think she needs some sort of therapy. Nothing major, just someone to talk to.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think she was highly offended when you said she had mental health problems. After that, she shut down. I've seen numerous people on these boards say that would be a deal breaker for them, if their spouse said something like that. So, if your spouse has obvious mental health problems, how are you supposed to deal with it if you can't talk about it? Obviously, she doesn't want to face her issues, which makes her life worse, which could indicate a mental health problem. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> I think she was highly offended when you said she had mental health problems. After that, she shut down. I've seen numerous people on these boards say that would be a deal breaker for them, if their spouse said something like that. So, if your spouse has obvious mental health problems, how are you supposed to deal with it if you can't talk about it? Obviously, she doesn't want to face her issues, which makes her life worse, which could indicate a mental health problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I think that is the problem, she does have unresolved issues. I never said it to be horrible. Unfortunately I said it in completely the wrong manner at completely the wrong time BUT I believe it & said it to her calmly when I came home. She told me she disagreed & would action it if she thought there was something wrong which to her credit she did years ago when she first went on medication. She said "I did it then so I would do it now but I don't think I need to". At that point I respected that. 

I still think she needs help but in my opinion she buries her head in the sand. I think she has needed help since before I knew her the more time has gone on. To be honest it didn't affect me until we stopped having sex. If she doesn't think she needs help fair enough as long as it doesn't affect me/us too I suppose is how I view it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Yes will do. I'm well aware the job may not be a good thing. It will change things but how is anyone's guess!


@Rob_1 is right about being watchful of her actions at the new job. We have a ton of threads from BHs whose WWs were SAHMs for a long time and fell into PAs within a couple of months of starting a job. With your wife being out of work for only a few months due to lockdowns, she doesn’t really fall into that category. But with things being strained between the two of you combined with no sex happening to bind you both, she is ripe for a smooth talking interloper to open her up.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

jsmart said:


> If you’re not initiating, she can assume that you’re fine not having sex. You have already let so much time go by without initiating, which has had a self neutering effect on you. By initiating, you’re forcing her to face that she is the unloving spouse that is destroying the marriage and it will be a reminder to you that your needs are not being met.
> 
> Unless you’re some psycho that’s going to rape a woman or some superstar that has women throwing their panties at them, all men give women their power when it comes to sex. So get over the fear of rejection and restart initiating because you will face rejection in the singles world too.


I agree with this. 

I think your wife thinks you are ok without sex because you don't try or ask for it anymore. 

Months are going by and she will think you are ok without sex. She has no clue you have a timeline. This is an issue both of you need to work and resolve. If she doesn't know, she won't try to fix it. Even if she gets mad, she needs to know you haven't forgotten about sex. Even if you don't try, you need to ask and remind her sex is important to you. 

The new job is going to bring on more stress for a while. She's someone who doesn't let go of things and her job is going to consume her thoughts and bring on more insecurities. My prediction is you will be sexless for weeks after she starts her new job. I think you should start having a sex conversation now and see how she responds.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

That’s a pretty easy prediction to make based off of 20 months of nothing.
SDYWF, you aren’t initiating because you know the answer, yet you say you’re willing to walk at the end of 6 months of no sex.

I think it’s crazy not to initiate and at the same time not tell her you’re divorcing her if she doesn’t change and have a romantic relationship with you. If that’s your plan, then why not just divorce her after 20 months of no sex, telling her you have a problem with it, and her making zero effort (not even ONCE!!!!).

I really have conclude that you are exceptionally conflict avoidant.

So your plan is just to mosey on after 6 months of what you already know isn’t ever going to happen? What if you get into another relationship and you do nothing to solve your problem of extreme conflict avoidance? It’s gonna go the same direction I think. 
I think you said you had a therapist. Is this something you’re working on with them? I hope so.

There’s gotta be a reason you are with this lady. I think it’s because her ying is your yang.

18 months of nothing and you barely mention you’re unhappy about no intimacy and won’t even mention you have plans of divorcing over the problem? That really seems very odd to me.

two more months of nothing and you’re feeling good about not wanting sex with her?

This really just doesn’t seem reasonable. Just be done. What else is there to do?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

pastasauce79 said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I think your wife thinks you are ok without sex because you don't try or ask for it anymore.
> 
> ...


I disagree. There is no reason for him to tell her anything. He told her what he needs, it is her choice to provide that or not. He just quit asking in the past few weeks because he kept getting shot down. Most men would stop asking/initiating at that point.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jsmart said:


> If you’re not initiating, she can assume that you’re fine not having sex. You have already let so much time go by without initiating, which has had a self neutering effect on you. By initiating, you’re forcing her to face that she is the unloving spouse that is destroying the marriage and it will be a reminder to you that your needs are not being met.
> 
> Unless you’re some psycho that’s going to rape a woman or some superstar that has women throwing their panties at them, all men give women their power when it comes to sex. So get over the fear of rejection and restart initiating because you will face rejection in the singles world too.


That is her choice to not to have sex.

It wasn’t the fear of rejection that caused him to stop asking in the past couple of weeks. It was the constant turn downs that did it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> well, to me duty sex means that sex becomes a duty but it doesn't necessary means it's going to be bad. My wife gave me duty sex, and not very often, but it was good sex and that kept me there for an extra 10 years. So, it can be ok, but it really depends on the quality of sex. Regarding the "lie", some wives have sex with their husbands because they want to please them, not because they really desire sex. It's still duty sex to me, but is it a lie?


Duty sex is a "have to" not a "because I want to please them" sex.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> That’s a pretty easy prediction to make based off of 20 months of nothing.
> SDYWF, you aren’t initiating because you know the answer, yet you say you’re willing to walk at the end of 6 months of no sex.
> 
> I think it’s crazy not to initiate and at the same time not tell her you’re divorcing her if she doesn’t change and have a romantic relationship with you. If that’s your plan, then why not just divorce her after 20 months of no sex, telling her you have a problem with it, and her making zero effort (not even ONCE!!!!).
> ...


I have told her outrightly how I feel. No I haven't let her know the timeframe - why should I? She would act differently if she knew the days were going down. It wouldn't be a genuine reaction. It is over to her now. If she doesn't want to act on what she heard from me or change that's on her. I don't care about being turned down after initiating but I've tried all that before. I'm taking a complete back seat from it now. She knows there are condoms in my bedside table. Over to her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Duty sex is a "have to" not a "because I want to please them" sex.


Yes, of course, but that's a restrictive definition. To me duty sex can also mean that you, as a wife, find it your "duty" to please your man, because you love him. So, it's an act of unconditional love and even if initially you don't want to, you can enjoy it when you have it. It's a kind of responsive desire.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

ABHale said:


> That is her choice to not to have sex.
> 
> It wasn’t the fear of rejection that caused him to stop asking in the past couple of weeks. It was the constant turn downs that did it.


Not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not. I did say that women are the gatekeepers for sex. Also, when a guy stops initiating sex with his wife because he’s consistently told no, then that is a form of fear of rejection.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not. I did say that women are the gatekeepers for sex. Also, when a guy stops initiating sex with his wife because he’s consistently told no, then that is a form of fear of rejection.


Or resignation over that she's going to say no anyway.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> Or resignation over that she's going to say no anyway.


I still have a hard time grasping this


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> I still have a hard time grasping this


I'm afraid we all know where this is going to end, unfortunately...


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> I still have a hard time grasping this


Transactional sex hurts women in the long run. It just becomes unpleasant to them and, at some point, they are willing to lose a man in order to stop having sex.

I think that is what happens.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Transactional sex hurts women in the long run. It just becomes unpleasant to them and, at some point, they are willing to lose a man in order to stop having sex.
> 
> I think that is what happens.


So, what's the solution? Divorce?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> Transactional sex hurts women in the long run. It just becomes unpleasant to them and, at some point, they are willing to lose a man in order to stop having sex.
> 
> I think that is what happens.


I was more commenting on why anyone would stay in this situation


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> So, what's the solution? Divorce?


Sometimes, unfortunately if there is an unwillingness to learn how to care for your spouse. It's really a spiritual problem more than anything else. In my opinion, there are three valid reasons to leave a marriage. Abuse. Abandonment. Affairs. An unwillingness to have sex with your spouse is a form of abandonment.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> I was more commenting on why anyone would stay in this situation


Some are willing to be uncared for within a marriage than leave and be alone.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> Some are willing to be uncared for within a marriage than leave and be alone.


Makes no sense to me


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Makes no sense to me


That's because you are confident in your ability to do that. I don't have an issue doing that either. Not everybody can.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I have told her outrightly how I feel.


Did you tell her that it's serious enough to lead to divorce, without mentioning the time frame? 

I agree with not giving her the timeframe, but she has already proven she has no interest in changing. So, does she know the severity and just doesn't believe you? Or did you leave out that you'd divorce over this?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> So, what's the solution? Divorce?


For most men in this world that's the solution. Of course there's always a percentage of men that for various reasons stay. 🙄


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> For most men in this world that's the solution. Of course there's always a percentage of men that for various reasons stay. 🙄


No sex at all? No way...


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Someone in this forum posted a link to a great Christian blog about a Christian lady who denied her husband for years. It took me a while to find it but here it is. I started reading it a little bit and it might be very useful for your wife to read and understand what is going on from a resentful woman's perspective. I'm not Christian, but I really think it's a great blog. It's called "the forgiven wife."









The Pit of Refusal | The Forgiven Wife


My first post explains how I fell into a pattern of avoiding and resisting sex.




forgivenwife.com


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

L


jsmart said:


> . Also, when a guy stops initiating sex with his wife because he’s consistently told no, then that is a form of fear of rejection.


Fear may have been a part of it for awhile. 

But one of the things that often occurs with chronic rejection is eventually the rejectee simply loses interest and no longer wants to. Resentment and bitterness can often occur as well. 

In time the rejectee will also loose love and affection and esteem for the rejector. 

Is this particular thread, she has been rejecting him consistently for going on two years now. How long will someone continue to have love and affection and desire for someone that has continuously rejected them? 

Does he have "fear" of rejection or has he reached a point where he no longer has any actual desire for her himself? 

Let me put it this way - his body wants to have sex. The primal beast inside him as a healthy male wants to breed with a fertile female on an instinctual level. But does he really want to make love with HER? 

On an instinctual level, she senses this as well. Often times when women say, "all you want is sex", they are feeling that disconnect on a primal level and sense, whether rightly or wrongly, that guy is wanting to breed on a biological level but do not actually have love and desire and esteem for her. 

cont.......


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> L
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So all this argument over whether he should or should not be initiating is a bit academic. 

Him pulling away from her and doing things on his own and going out with buddies and pursuing some of his own hobbies and activities etc etc is not going to make her horny for him or desire him. She's probably actually digging the freedom. 

But what it will likely do is get him in touch and self aware with the fact he has lost desire for her as well and has lost his love and esteem for her. It is also beginning to show him that he can live without her and that life without her may in fact be good and be a better life without her. 

Make no mistake this is a dying relationship in immediate, life threatening condition. 

It's going to come to point of complete collapse before too long. Right now each of them is living in denial and kind of playing chicken to see which one is going to flinch first. It is going to come to head before too long. 

When that happens, they may each decide to throw in the towel, declare the relationship dead, have a funeral and bury it. 

Or when it comes to a head, it may be the wake call that this is critical and requires invasive, intensive care and intervention to address. 

I've been saying since the beginning of this thread over a month ago, that this will require professional intervention and therapy if this marriage is to continue in any kind of healthy and mutually happy manner. 

He needs to come to grips with the fact that he has also lost a lot of love and esteem and desire for "HER". 

And she needs to wake up to the fact that he now disconnecting also and no longer chasing her around like a lost puppy and she may not have her dancing monkey and financial provider and assistant child care provider around much longer. 

There are a lot of people in the world that coast along on auto-pilot and have their head in the sand and then act all blind sided when they get handed divorce papers or they find out their partners have been having seeing someone else for the last several months and having been shifting around finances and packing up their stuff under the other's nose while feathering their nest elsewhere.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

There is no amount of secret plan or purposed intentions here that serves any purpose at all that has any practical function. This entire mess is nothing more than your unwillingness to get in her face and address the issue that she obviously has no interest in her husband so you are proceeding with divorce. Any other action on the matter is nothing more than a camouflaged chicken chit cop out to avoid that hard but required solution.

You either get it done or swallow it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mr.Married said:


> There is no amount of secret plan or purposed intentions here that serves any purpose at all that has any practical function. This entire mess is nothing more than your unwillingness to get in her face and address the issue that she obviously has no interest in her husband so you are proceeding with divorce. Any other action on the matter is nothing more than a camouflaged chicken chit cop out to avoid that hard but required solution.
> 
> You either get it done or swallow it.


I agree. He either actually divorces her or wastes his life with a frigid wife. Problems just don’t get solved by talking about it/doing nothing. He hasn’t even seen an attorney. He’s not really taking any action. All the advice in the world won’t help unless there are real steps taken toward a goal. There’s been no counseling, no attorneys seen, no papers written up, no nothing. 
I hate to see OP sitting on a situation that makes him miserable while the years go by. He’s working on two.
Next he’ll talk about how he doesn’t really have any interest in dating, his finances will be ruined if he divorces, and his wife is so anxious he’s worried about what will happen to her if he leaves. 
My advice is to let her go today. See an attorney, get the paperwork started, etc.
I don’t think his wife will keep a job. I think he had better just see what the attorney says and find out what his life is going to look like without her right now. All OP is to his wife is a mule and a security blanket. She has definitely lost all sense of desire for him. And what’s worse, she won’t even contribute to the bills. She stays home feeling anxious. 100% dysfunctional relationship.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

ABHale said:


> I disagree. There is no reason for him to tell her anything. He told her what he needs, it is her choice to provide that or not. He just quit asking in the past few weeks because he kept getting shot down. Most men would stop asking/initiating at that point.


I understand what you say. My point is she needs to realize she needs to change if she wants to continue being married to her husband. 

We change or give up things for people we really want. I think it's a cause and effect situation. She needs to understand the lack of sex is causing her husband to give up his marriage. She needs to understand, for her husband, sex is a way to feel emotional connection and love towards her. She doesn't know how men view sex in a committed relationship. She needs help in that area because women view sex in a different way. She needs to be reminded of what she's about to lose. It's not a threat, but a reality that's coming very soon. 

Personally, I didn't know how important sex was for my husband, and I didn't have a dead bedroom. I had sex because I wanted it, and when I wanted it. I really didn't know how bonding it was for my husband. It was bonding for me too, but I could bond in other ways that didn't include sex. I wasn't the same for my husband. This is something women need to learn and understand. It's not "OMG! You want sex, again?" It's more like "You want to bond and feel close to me again?" 

She needs to get her head out of the sand and face the ugly truth. Her marriage is dying. There's no marriage without sex unless she marries an asexual person. She needs to change in order to save her marriage. 

In the blog I posted previously, it took two years for the author to change her sexless marriage. OP's wife has a few months and she has no clue her husband is gonna divorce her. There's no miracle coming their way unless they commit themselves to change.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> So all this argument over whether he should or should not be initiating is a bit academic.
> 
> Him pulling away from her and doing things on his own and going out with buddies and pursuing some of his own hobbies and activities etc etc is not going to make her horny for him or desire him. She's probably actually digging the freedom.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of this.

Just reading his wife, she sounds like a rug sweeper. As long as things feel okay, they must actually be okay, so to speak.

I think his current developments are a result of the gradual reduction in the thermostat rather than dropping it to zero. In other words, it is giving her an opportunity to adjust to his withdrawal as a 'new normal'.

OP, I think it is high time to bring it to zero. I know you say you are convinced that won't work, but news flash: this isn't working, either. 

Yes, you are taking the steps to reclaim yourself. That is important. 

That said, there are three key factors in communication: the sender, the receiver, and the message. If you fail to account for all three, communication is ineffective. 

The sender (you) is sending a muddy message to the receiver, which is either not hearing the message, or is misinterpreting it. 

Given her penchant for rug sweeping, your approach will fall short unless you can really make her uncomfortable. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

pastasauce79 said:


> *We change or give up things for people we really want.* I think it's a cause and effect situation. She needs to understand the lack of sex is causing her husband to give up his marriage. She needs to understand, *for her husband, sex is a way to feel emotional connection and love towards her.* She doesn't know how men view sex in a committed relationship. She needs help in that area because women view sex in a different way. She needs to be reminded of what she's about to lose. It's not a threat, but a reality that's coming very soon.
> 
> Personally, I didn't know how important sex was for my husband, and I didn't have a dead bedroom. I had sex because I wanted it, and when I wanted it. I really didn't know how bonding it was for my husband. It was bonding for me too, but I could bond in other ways that didn't include sex. I wasn't the same for my husband. This is something women need to learn and understand. It's not "OMG! You want sex, again?" It's more like "You want to bond and feel close to me again?"
> 
> She needs to get her head out of the sand and face the ugly truth. Her marriage is dying. *There's no marriage without sex *unless she marries an asexual person. She needs to change in order to save her marriage.


Wow Pasta, excellent post. You make some strong points that many wives need to learn. I’m sure your husband feels way more loved and secure in the marriage after you embraced these truths.

We men have our part to perform to earn that love . The difference is our culture pounds into men’s heads the things that we need to do. Of course not all of us do them. For women, there doesn’t seem to be an encouragement to be loving, affectionate, and sexual wives with their husbands. There’s plenty of encouragement to be sexually wild as a single woman but not as a wife. Unless it’s to encourage adultery. Plenty of that on Lifetime channel.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Things may change at home after she starts working - mainly she will require you to do more around the house.

But sex? I doubt it. She will claim she’s tired.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

All great posts by @MrMarried @Evinrude58 @pastasauce79 @farsidejunky et al above. 

I agree he is going to have to take some strong, decisive actions that are going to be uncomfortable and disruptive and upsetting for anything to happen here. But he has been asleep at helm with the auto pilot on for a long time. He has to get his headspace squared away and his affairs in order before he can have any meaningful effect. 

Some guys can do that relatively quickly. Others basically need to transform themselves before they can have the knowledge, skills, confidence and determination enough to actually be effective at making it happen. 

I don't like to use red pill terminology if I can avoid it but sometimes it is the most descriptive - In the OP's case, he has been a simp and beta provider for a long long time. He has drank the Kool Aid that tells him in order to win a lady's affections he must ease her anxiety, provide for her comfort and make her life as easy and provided for as possible and if she is resistant to sexuality with him, it is because he needs to load the dishwasher better and fold the laundry to her liking better and to make her life more easy and comfortable. And he also believes he needs to treat her emotional and mental issues. 

He also has a belief that she is his one and only chance at true love and that if this relationship doesn't work out, he will live the remainder of his days alone and celibate and ultimately die alone being eaten by his cats. 

These are deep, core beliefs that go clear to the heart of his being. Telling him that in order to have a healthy and happy sex life he needs to divorce her or stick divorce papers in her face and demand MC/therapy "or else!" is like telling him the sun the will come up in the west at midnight..... he is simply unable to believe it because his entire life experience has told him otherwise. 

He's going to have to learn and experience these things and gain confidence in himself as he goes. He is going to have desimpify himself and learn to get his balls back. He is going to have to see the process produce a number of results before he can have faith in it. 

Some guys can do that in a matter of weeks. Others take longer. As Darth Vader would say, "The Simp is strong with this one." LOL 

He has a plan and a timeline. Is it perfect? No. but it's at least a plan and a timeline.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand what you say. My point is she needs to realize she needs to change if she wants to continue being married to her husband.
> 
> We change or give up things for people we really want. I think it's a cause and effect situation. She needs to understand the lack of sex is causing her husband to give up his marriage. She needs to understand, for her husband, sex is a way to feel emotional connection and love towards her. She doesn't know how men view sex in a committed relationship. She needs help in that area because women view sex in a different way. She needs to be reminded of what she's about to lose. It's not a threat, but a reality that's coming very soon.
> 
> ...


I agree with all your points above. 

What I question however is how applicable it will be to this specific situation. 

We have to differentiate between women who get a sense of overwhelm with kids and bills and work and domestic chores and the love life with her partner just kind of gets pushed to #327 in her priority list right between picking all the lint off of the kid's underwear before she puts in the drawer and picking the blades of grass out of the cracks in the driveway. 

VS actually not being attracted to and desiring her partner sexually in the first place. 

There's a different between feeling pulled in 27 different directions and not being in the mood vs not wanting to. 

This has been almost two years and he has expressed his concerns with her - She doesn't want to. 

Yes, he can produce divorce papers and tell her to put out or face single motherhood. She may even say, "FINE!" and lay down and spread her legs for a night. 

But it's not a solution and it won't make her actually desire him or make her horny for him or even like him. There's a good chance she'll even like him less if he starts making demands without treating the root cause first. 

A wife that loves her husband and finds him attractive and appealing on a basic level but has just let the daily grind bog her down, can be snapped back to reality if she realizes the marriage is in jeopardy and it can bring her to the negotiation table to work on their issues. 

But someone who simply does not find her partner sexually desirable and simply does not want to have sex with him regardless of what's going on in her life, it's largely spitting in the wind. It's been almost two years and he has addressed this with her. It's not because she tired after a long day of not having enough help with the dishes and laundry.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> your approach will fall short unless you can really make her uncomfortable.


She needs to get uncomfortable before she starts her new job. Otherwise, she'll say she can't have sex because her new job is stressing her out. She'll find a way to excuse her behavior because it's been working so far. Stress, depression, anxiety, loss of job, children, etc.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree oldshirt. But my fear is that he went 18 months with no action, now 2 more with the same. Does he REALLY have a timeline? If so, it is what it is.

I will feel better for OP once he’s seen an attorney. Until then, he’s really not made a true plan and doesn’t have a real timeline. It’s just a stalling tactic guys play on themselves in order to not feel bad for doing nothing to change their life for the better.

Similar to how he got his plan going but then chose to stop initiating and also delaying whatever he had in mind due to her upcoming job that may or may not happen.

Life goes by FAST. He will wake up one day and 20 years has gone by.

18 months with no sex and not doing anything about it or even talking with her….,.., That makes my Robby Robot say “Danger Will Robinson”.

How hard is it to say “honey, let’s go play in the bedroom!” She had her chance, he doesn’t have to be hurt unless he chooses to be, and he will know without doubt that he gave her opportunity to fix the marriage and she squandered it? I’d do it cheerfully every day. 
And at the 6 month point, I’d pack my stuff or hers and HAND her papers that I’d already had drawn up. He doesn’t have any. Because he really hasn’t made a plan. He’s just avoiding conflict.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> But someone who simply does not find her partner sexually desirable and simply does not want to have sex with him regardless of what's going on in her life, it's largely spitting in the wind. It's been almost two years and he has addressed this with her. It's not because she tired after a long day of not having enough help with the dishes and laundry.


I think the desire could be there, but she's so resentful, and stubborn, she cannot see it anymore. 

Women's emotions are deep and powerful. In her mind she's been disappointed, so her body doesn't react to desire anymore. It's a mental block she has. She needs to get rid of the negative emotions. She needs to understand the damage she's causing by not moving on, by not forgiving. She needs help with this.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

jsmart said:


> Not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not. I did say that women are the gatekeepers for sex. Also, when a guy stops initiating sex with his wife because he’s consistently told no, then that is a form of fear of rejection.


Some might stop initiating out of fear of rejection but others may stop because they're tired of trying or they're angry because they know what the answer will be and thus why be a glutant for punishment. Others may stop because they're just disgusted with the entire situation and some may stop because they've accepted the situation and they're moving in another direction (whether that be a divorce or an affair or just acceptance that no sex is just the way it's going to be for now on).


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree with most of this.
> 
> Just reading his wife, she sounds like a rug sweeper. As long as things feel okay, they must actually be okay, so to speak.
> 
> ...


This^^^^^

Not a good recipe when you have a Rug sweeper and a conflict avoidant person.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

pastasauce79 said:


> *I think the desire could be there, but she's so resentful, and stubborn, she cannot see it anymore.*
> 
> Women's emotions are deep and powerful. In her mind she's been disappointed, so her body doesn't react to desire anymore. It's a mental block she has. She needs to get rid of the negative emotions. She needs to understand the damage she's causing by not moving on, by not forgiving. She needs help with this.


The part in bold throws me off. Desire but doesn’t know it? 
Anyway, you have good posts. I’m trying to understand some of them. As a man, I feel my emotions are just as powerful as any woman’s, but if there’s anything I’ve learned in my 49 years, it’s that I don’t really know squat. 
So if I quiz you, it’s just to learn, not to annoy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I will feel better for OP once he’s seen an attorney. Until then, he’s really not made a true plan and doesn’t have a real timeline. It’s just a stalling tactic guys play on themselves in order to not feel bad for doing nothing to change their life for the better.


I agree and believe that consulting an attorney is a perfectly legitimate thing to do at this point. 

So how about it @somedayyouwillfindme ? Will you agree to consult a divorce attorney in your jurisdiction and at least find out what your rights, responsibilities, entitlements and obligations will be should this come down to a divorce or even discussions of divorce? 

You would be under absolutely no obligations to file for divorce at this meeting but rather to gather information and knowledge on what a divorce would actually be for you. It's knowledge and knowledge is power. The more knowledge we gain about something, the less we fear it and the less we rely on our own mistaken assumptions. 

It's been a month and a half since you started this journey and you are not one single step closer to a healthy and happy love life that you were on day-one. You keep talking about the possibility of divorce in your future so it is perfectly reasonable to look into that possibility and obtain factual information about it. 

Will you at least take an hour or two out of your life to meet with an attorney and gather some actual information about what a divorce would actually be for you? It can just be an hour or so out of your day... I mean it's not like you will be having sex or anything at that time, so why not at least face that which you keep claiming you will be willing to do in a few months. 

And even if you do jump to divorce at the 6 month mark, you would be a dumbazz to not at least look into it beforehand. 

If for no other reason than to humor us so you can say I told you so to us,  will you see an attorney in the next week or so??


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I think the desire could be there, but she's so resentful, and stubborn, she cannot see it anymore.
> 
> Women's emotions are deep and powerful. In her mind she's been disappointed, so her body doesn't react to desire anymore. It's a mental block she has. She needs to get rid of the negative emotions. She needs to understand the damage she's causing by not moving on, by not forgiving. She needs help with this.


I agree this will take professional intervention to resolve. I've said that since the first day. 

But if she doesn't have desire, it's because it isn't there. And if it isn't there, it's because she doesn't feel it. It's either there or it ain't. 

If she needs 5 years and 10s of thousands of dollars to address her resentment - wouldn't it be best for everyone to just wish each other well and move along? They don't have kids together and a guy can get a BJ at a truck stop for less than one therapy session. 

There comes a point where the juice isn't worth the squeeze and if some gal doesn't even know she has desire without years and thousands and thousands of dollars, I'd say that is past that point.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I agree, people only change when they are really uncomfortable - and realize they have a lot to lose by standing firm on their position.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Beach123 said:


> I agree, people only change when they are really uncomfortable - and realize they have a lot to lose by standing firm on their position.


I’ll put it this way, throughout history, the people that have actually accomplished things and generated meaningful changes, have almost always been people willing to rock the casbah and blow up the status quo.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I still think @somedayyouwillfindme needs to continue to press his wife about resolving the resentment she has from their fight. She needs to know that this isn't going to fly. It's not about sex. It's about how she is treating her husband. Right now she has stopped caring about his needs in favor of nursing resentment. If this were me, I'd be bringing it up regularly in order to try to reach a resolution. She needs to face up to this, but she's not going to without pressure.

Yes, she will be upset, but that's part of the process. Don't do this to anger or annoy her. Do it to come to resolution. What you are doing now isn't working to bring about resolution. As you move in a different direction, she is like the proverbial frog in the boiling water. She is adjusting to each phase without understanding what, exactly, is happening. She needs to be reminded.

I'm not talking about threats. I'm talking about warning calls. You are set on divorce if she doesn't start doing her part for the marriage, yet she seems oblivious to this. There should be zero ambiguity about where she stands and what's going to happen if she doesn't start working to resolve the marriage problems immediately. The way I see it, you are continuing to enable her to nurse her grudge by not being clear about what's going on. Don't give her a timeline. Don't tell her about your plan. But do press her to address the issue(s), so the marriage doesn't fail.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I agree this will take professional intervention to resolve. I've said that since the first day.
> 
> But if she doesn't have desire, it's because it isn't there. And if it isn't there, it's because she doesn't feel it. It's either there or it ain't.
> 
> ...


The desire used to be there, though. So it's not like she has never desired him. If the problem is resolved, the desire may return.

I do agree that it won't happen without therapy, and a desire to change - which is not currently present. And @somedayyouwillfindme most likely needs therapy as well. Without it the dynamic that led them here will not change, and he could hold onto resentment for years after this issue has been resolved. Been there, done that - for like 12-13 years. Up to them if years or lifelong therapy is worth it or not, and there is no guarantee it would be years or lifelong.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> The desire used to be there, though. So it's not like she has never desired him. If the problem is resolved, the desire may return.
> 
> .


That's actually questionable. 

Yes they used to have sex. But she was a single mother and it hasn't been discussed much recently but in the opening pages of this thread, there was quite a bit of talk about her mental health status and where she had any personality disorders etc. 

Crazy chicks have a lot of wild monkey sex in the opening acts of a new relationship, especially single mothers looking for a gravy train for their offspring and to bring some semblance of security and stability to their lives. But they can't sustain it and the OP didn't have much experience with women before so for him any sex and just the fact she let him touch her tah-tahs would have been great to him.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> The part in bold throws me off. Desire but doesn’t know it?
> Anyway, you have good posts. I’m trying to understand some of them. As a man, I feel my emotions are just as powerful as any woman’s, but if there’s anything I’ve learned in my 49 years, it’s that I don’t really know squat.
> So if I quiz you, it’s just to learn, not to annoy.


 I think understanding men is way easier than understanding women. 

I don't know why it's hard for us to turn our mind and feelings off. I have to stop my mind to enjoy the moment. 

I think for women desire is attached to feelings and emotions. Women are hurt and the desire is gone until they don't feel hurt anymore. Is not that hard to understand this, or is it?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I had a lady once that came home mad a lot. I stopped wanting sex (really strange for me), and it returned when we got things fixed… or at least until more bs started. I understand, but not the way his wife is. She is over it enough she wants to cuddle snd such. She likes to hang out with him he says. It seems to me she either has no more romantic feelings or her head is so screwed up that her libedo is screwed and it never will return.
She is dysfunctional in a lot of ways. Not just sex. But it seems sex is one of the hardest to fix. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it happen.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> it hasn't been discussed much recently but in the opening pages of this thread, there was quite a bit of talk about her mental health status and where she had any personality disorders etc.


And it's all meaningless and something this forum LOVES to do - diagnose BPD. Especially you. You pushed and pushed that I must be autistic, and even argued with me about it. And pushed and pushed that my wife "obviously" had BPD, even when the doctors said otherwise. And you do it over and over. It's pathetic.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> Things may change at home after she starts working - mainly she will require you to do more around the house.
> 
> But sex? I doubt it. She will claim she’s tired.


Or some male co-worker peaks her interest and she starts talking about how her hubby ignores her and does not want to have sex with her....


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand what you say. My point is she needs to realize she needs to change if she wants to continue being married to her husband.
> 
> We change or give up things for people we really want. I think it's a cause and effect situation. She needs to understand the lack of sex is causing her husband to give up his marriage. She needs to understand, for her husband, sex is a way to feel emotional connection and love towards her. She doesn't know how men view sex in a committed relationship. She needs help in that area because women view sex in a different way. She needs to be reminded of what she's about to lose. It's not a threat, but a reality that's coming very soon.
> 
> ...


I agree that she needs to know these things that you brought up. I also believe it is up to her to find it out. Her husband has informed her of his needs in the marriage, it’s her decision to find a way to fulfill his needs or not. If she has any concerns for him at all, she would find the answers to their problem.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

pastasauce79 said:


> She needs to get uncomfortable before she starts her new job. Otherwise, she'll say she can't have sex because her new job is stressing her out. She'll find a way to excuse her behavior because it's been working so far. Stress, depression, anxiety, loss of job, children, etc.


Then she will lose her husband.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

ABHale said:


> Then she will lose her husband.


Nah, I don’t think he will leave her, no matter what she does or doesn’t do to change.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> No I am not initiating anymore. To me personally it felt like I was just handing her my life on a plate & giving her all the power by doing that. Giving her the power to knock me down each time - I am done with it. I am not doing anything sexual towards her at all now. Some may say that is a bad thing which goes completely against the outcome I want. For me I look at it that something needs to change drastically to what I have been doing for the best part of 18 months to see a change. Have I? - No. Will I? We shall see. The main reason above all else I'm not initiating however is for my self respect & to take back a lot of the power I gave to her oh so easily. One other big reason is since I started this thread I'm just not desperate for her to have sex with me like I was 5 weeks ago. I gave her WAY too much power over my life which slowly but surely I feel I am taking back & switching round. Takes time though.
> 
> In answer to 'waiting' for her. I am waiting to see how this job affects not only her but me & our day to day life at home. @Evinrude58 I believe a job can make a huge difference to someone's mood/libido. It may not for you & I admit I wouldn't need a job to alter mine but some do. I am not sat here waiting for her. I am getting on with my life during the next 4.5 months as planned. I 100% agree work/jobs had nothing to do with our argument or the lack of sex over the past 18 months. However in recent months since Christmas the lack of money & pressure of no job has been getting to her badly though & not helping things at all. As I explained in previous messages she even had a couple of panic attacks which I witnessed & it pushed her to switch medication for the first time in 8 years or so. But I do agree if someone really really wanted sex they would have it so don't think I'm sat here believing this job will be a miracle cure because I'm not. I'm not saying the job will alter a thing sex wise but it will change our life in some form. I have given it 4.5 months so lets see what happens.
> 
> On the point about one argument not changing someone's view of another - I fully disagree. One argument can absolutely change a persons view of another human being. I don't agree that my wife should still be holding onto our argument 20 months later because it has been spoken about endlessly. Most would have accepted it & moved on - she hasn't which could be her downfall long term. She has an inability to leave an argument behind & this one is the worst of all. Ironic really seen as though she kick started it & I was simply responding to her after hours of her pushing me. As I say long term it may well be her down fall which I will make VERY clear as I leave.


I've been following your story and I admire how far you have come by doing things for yourself, making improvements in yourself. Your wife doesn't realise how lucky she is to have you. She has been cold and awful to you for almost 2 years. Many would have left by now.i don't know her but from what I gather from your posts is she has made every excuse to not have with her husband. Just keep doing what you are doing and you will keep getting stronger. I don't think she will change and I think when it all blows up she will still blame you. Keep going out with friends, ioin some clubs for hobbies were you can also meet new people and maybe some new friendships. Even if she ended up having sex once, she will always go back to no sex. Anyway wishing you the best in your future, and if not with your wife, then with another woman who loves you and loves, enjoys lots of sex with you. There are many good women hoping to meet a man like yourself. Your wife would probably use sex against you again in any argument, disagreement and back to no sex for years and years. You deserve happiness, none of this abuse.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Beach123 said:


> Nah, I don’t think he will leave her, no matter what she does or doesn’t do to change.


We will see.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just need some advice please. My wife & I have been together 9 years & married 5 years. Sex to start with was amazing, regular & trying all sorts of things. Over the years that past by to just normal straight forward sex which I don't mind at all. I understand that the start of a relationship is always full of excitement. The problem has been over the last 18 months where we have had sex twice. I try to initiate things but I get nothing in return. My wife loves to cuddle me, texts me when I'm out & calls me so I know she loves me but she has gone off sex. We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc.
> 
> ...


Divorce is the key. It's the answer, once you learn to turn the key. 
I say this, because she lost all aspects of respect for you. Yes, it starts with intimacy, if not, you are just roommates, with no benefits.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Defhero said:


> Divorce is the key. It's the answer, once you learn to turn the key.
> I say this, because she lost all aspects of respect for you. Yes, it starts with intimacy, if not, you are just roommates, with no benefits.


I agree divorce is the only answer. If she truly loved him she wouldn't be living just like flat mates. when I was with a longterm partner I went off sex with him. I had many many reasons, but I did the right thing and left so we could both be happy. OP this has gone on almost 2 years and she blames it on an argument. Do you know what most healthy couples would do after an argument, kiss and make up with lots of hot sex. Argument forgotten about and never mentioned again. They wouldn't ban you from sex in 2 years. Yet she expects you to do everything else for her. She sounds unhinged if you can't even look in the direction of other women, even if a woman stands next to you in the arcades while with her husband and family, she can't stand it that much she had to leave before you and sit in your car. It's good you are making improvements for yourself and becoming stronger for it. If you stay with her all your efforts would just have been a waste of time. She may give you pity sex to get you to stay, but then you would be back to no sex for longer next time, like 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years plus. Think about that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Defhero said:


> Divorce is the key. It's the answer, once you learn to turn the key.
> I say this, because she lost all aspects of respect for you. Yes, it starts with intimacy, if not, you are just roommates, with no benefits.





CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I agree divorce is the only answer. If she truly loved him she wouldn't be living just like flat mates. when I was with a longterm partner I went off sex with him. I had many many reasons, but I did the right thing and left so we could both be happy. OP this has gone on almost 2 years and she blames it on an argument. Do you know what most healthy couples would do after an argument, kiss and make up with lots of hot sex. Argument forgotten about and never mentioned again. They wouldn't ban you from sex in 2 years. Yet she expects you to do everything else for her. She sounds unhinged if you can't even look in the direction of other women, even if a woman stands next to you in the arcades while with her husband and family, she can't stand it that much she had to leave before you and sit in your car. It's good you are making improvements for yourself and becoming stronger for it. If you stay with her all your efforts would just have been a waste of time. She may give you pity sex to get you to stay, but then you would be back to no sex for longer next time, like 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years plus. Think about that.


I think you are both right, but OP does have a plan. I think he is on the right track, so long as he does actually follow through at the end. Another few months in the grand scheme of things is nothing. The advantage of doing it this way is it gives him time to detach in a somewhat controlled manner and no one will be able to say he didn't give it a shot to turn it around. I don't think it will actually turn around, but you never know and again, its just a few months.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think we need a Redemption here.
Red has gotten too accustomed to living in a prison where the guards make you ask to go pee. 

FYI, I left an envelope of cash under a paperweight in the attorney’s office closest to OP’s home. Under an obsidian paperweight that has no earthly business being in a Maine lawyer’s office.

just sayin’


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

OP has a plan that in my humble opinion is helping him to detach and be in a better place once his six month plan runs its course.

The way this plan is set up only ensures two outcomes. 

1) he leaves her because nothing has changed in over two yrs in regards to the sex
2) he stays with her and doesn't do anything. He continues along detached and doing things he wants to do fooling himself that he's in a better place.

What it doesn't do is address the situation and why he came here to begin with. No sex. OP is conflict avoidant and she's a Rug sweeper. I know OP doesn't want to tell her where he's at and what his plan is and the time frame because he thinks she might give in and throw some duty sex at him to make him think she's changed and to keep him from leaving. Certainly understandable. So he sticks around and things eventually go back to the way they were.

Yes there's the risk she could do this. However the way he's going about doing this isn't being honest and letting her know how serious he really is and giving her the opportunity to try to change things. Not out of desperation to try to keep him to stay but because she really does love him and is willing to work on her issues and to hopefully get things back on track.

His plan (without ever telling her where he's at because he's conflict avoidant) guarantees the outcome he wants will NOT happen. 

So again I ask is your goal to be stronger and in a better place in order to walk away and divorce her or to confront this issue, let her see how serious you are about leaving, and giving her the chance to try and change things?

With a new job she's about to start she's going to be stressed out (as would anybody starting a new job) and meanwhile the clock on his six month plan continues to tick away ensuring an outcome he doesn't want and won't verbalize to her all because he's conflict avoidant. 

As farside has said, it's time to turn the temperature down to zero. She's not a mind reader. For all she knows OP is good with the way things are because things have been this way for nearly Two years and he's still around. Still cuddling with her and doing things with her.

Will repeat this one more time. You can't change what you won't confront.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sideways said:


> OP has a plan that in my humble opinion is helping him to detach and be in a better place once his six month plan runs its course.
> 
> The way this plan is set up only ensures two outcomes.
> 
> ...


Excellent breakdown of the problem by sideways. I agree. You seem to be highly conflict avoidant. This is not doing you or your wife any good. You can't say that you've tried, because, until you speak to her clearly and continue to do so, you have not done all you can. You have avoided the very thing that could save this marriage. Talk to her. Tell her how bad it is. Stop doing anything that enables her to think that things are okay. Keep asking her what her plan is to remedy the situation and start acting like your wife and partner, rather than treating you like a kitty with money. The cat sits on her lap. She pets the cat. Money comes out.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Manipulation only lasts a short time if at all. Then most revert back to who they are from what I’ve witnessed.
The other thing is a lot just have trouble making decisions. They seem to stay where they are from fear of the unknown. Life isn’t necessarily fair. It is a to a large degree what you make of it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Those if you saying he’s conflict avoidant and that he should engage right now would climb into the ring with Mike Tyson without learning how to box or doing any training and preparation?

Would avoiding conflict with Mike Tyson be weak or would it be wise at this particular time?

That’s kinda what you’re asking him to do. 

Will he have to engage her and state his case and upset her to get any resolution here one way or another? Yes he will.

But he was a babe in the woods and she would have had him for lunch if he had tried to engage her without being prepared and properly conditioned for the conflict that would ensue. 

He needed some time to acquire the knowledge, mindset and skills in order to have a snowballs chance in hell of prevailing. 

Now whether the time to engage is today, tomorrow, next week or next month, I can’t say. 

But all battles are won or lost before the first shot is fired. Some people need a little more time and preparation in order to not get themselves killed.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This isn't about fighting and it isn't a boxing match. Yes, she's going to be upset. Nothing will change unless she is upset with where she is. If she were indifferent, that would be a death knoll for the marriage, but she's not indifferent. She is prickly. He's never going to get anywhere if he doesn't engage. She's not going to break his face if she gets angry. In fact, getting angry may be just what she needs, so they can find out what she's so upset about and get her to face it, then perhaps she can repent.

Again, @somedayyouwillfindme, read the book, What Makes Love Last?. This will give you tools. You need tools.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> This isn't about fighting and it isn't a boxing match. Yes, she's going to be upset. Nothing will change unless she is upset with where she is. If she were indifferent, that would be a death knoll for the marriage, but she's not indifferent. She is prickly. He's never going to get anywhere if he doesn't engage. She's not going to break his face if she gets angry. In fact, getting angry may be just what she needs, so they can find out what she's so upset about and get her to face it, then perhaps she can repent.
> 
> Again, @somedayyouwillfindme, read the book, What Makes Love Last?. This will give you tools. You need tools.


I don’t think anyone is disputing that he will need to confront this issue head on and that she will be upset and discomforted. 

Where opinions differ is on when and under what circumstances. 

Some think he should engage now.

Some think he should prepare and get himself into a better headspace and get his wagons circled,,, or as you put it gather some tools. 

Each option has its own pros and cons. 

My opinion is that since he does have a strong history of simping and being so compliant and appeasing with her, it will take him a little to get the giblets and wherewithal to take any definitive action.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Those if you saying he’s conflict avoidant and that he should engage right now would climb into the ring with Mike Tyson without learning how to box or doing any training and preparation?
> 
> Would avoiding conflict with Mike Tyson be weak or would it be wise at this particular time?
> 
> ...


Sooner is better. Need to get right to the rat killing.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

A "boxing match"???

You


oldshirt said:


> Those if you saying he’s conflict avoidant and that he should engage right now would climb into the ring with Mike Tyson without learning how to box or doing any training and preparation?
> 
> Would avoiding conflict with Mike Tyson be weak or would it be wise at this particular time?
> 
> ...


It's now been over twenty months and yes OP is conflict avoidant. Comparing sitting his wife down and telling her that unless something changes he's prepared to walk away from the marriage to getting in the ring with Mike Tyson makes no sense. As Cynthia stated, "this isn't a fight or a boxing match".


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> A "boxing match"???
> 
> You
> 
> It's now been over twenty months and yes OP is conflict avoidant. Comparing sitting his wife down and telling her that unless something changes he's prepared to walk away from the marriage to getting in the ring with Mike Tyson makes no sense. As Cynthia stated, "this isn't a fight or a boxing match".


It is to him. 

And he wasn’t prepared for it and would have gone down in the first round.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

@somedayyouwillfindme

I can tell you really care for your wife by the pages and pages describing the efforts you are making toward repairing your relationship. It makes her efforts, which are essentially none, pale in comparison.

You are now approaching the end of 2 of the 6 months you allotted for this to get better and there has really been zero improvement.

Your wife holding on to the argument is out of balance compared to her behavior toward you. You have many more reasons to be upset than she does, even about that day. There are many aspects of the relationship that are out of balance.... with her having glaring double standards about what you are held to and what she expects to get away with.

As is often stated on here, you have to be willing to lose the relationship to fix it. Although your efforts are valiant, that is the piece you are missing.

Almost every one of us went though some sort of lesson learning process in our first long term relationship and you are deep in the moment currently.

I think you need to tell her directly that you are making plans to end the marriage due to the fact that she has decided to cut off intimacy. Don't give her a timeline.

If you do that now, you _might_ have a chance of it being better in 4 months. Anything less than that won't work.

I know you mention @farsidejunky 's story as evidence of it being possible to repair a relationship in the state yours is in, and I agree with that, but his spouse is not your spouse. You have a different animal on your hands, plus you haven't laid down boundaries as well as farside did.

Going forward...

1. It is time to drop the ultimatum now. Intimacy becomes a normal part of relationship or you are leaving.
2. Stop making excuses for her behavior... being cheated on by a prior bf, her parent relationship..... you aren't doing anything wrong, so that part is on her.
3. I assume you haven't checked her phone yet... do so.

You should be 33% through the six month plan, and the progress is 0%, you need to recognize that and act.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

BTW, OP -- have you been going out on the weekends? What was her reaction?


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

Again thanks for all the feedback. Believe it or not I do read all the posts. I may not mention or respond directly to them all but all the different advice/info is taken note of  

Ok first things first. I'm not sure who asked/recommended getting legal advice but I have now done so. Well I phoned a solicitor yesterday, expecting a phone call back this morning to arrange a free 30 minute consultation with them. I can then check exactly where I stand before anything else. @Cynthia I FULLY agree that I need to have THAT conversation with her & I will but I need to make sure I'm covered first legally. I understand to people on here it looks like I am avoiding the issue & days are going by but I'm getting there. I'm working & I'm a carer for my dad at the same time so even though I am very invested in my marriage (obviously) it's not the only thing going on in my life right now. Sometimes when you come home at night all you want to do for your own sanity is sit down with a coffee or a cold beer and switch off for the night! I am sorting things though gradually.

Above all else I need to do get everything in place from my side legally first whatever. Last thing I want is to speak to her, things getting heated, me tell her I want a divorce only to find out she can sting me for thousands!

In an ideal world I would have sought legal advice sooner but as some people are grasping on here all this takes time to process in your own head. I've been reading up on other forums doing my research on divorce & thankfully our situation looks pretty easy.

1, We own no property.
2, We have separate bank accounts (I have moved my money around in the last couple of weeks too into accounts that won't be picked up on).
3, We have no biological children.
4, Our savings are roughly the same.
5, Our pensions are roughly the same.
6, Our earnings (once she starts her new job) are roughly the same.

The only issue is someone mentioned I may have to pay money for the child. However someone else said that I should be ok though as the dad has been/is paying child maintenance monthly & you cannot claim twice. Either way I will book in an appointment with the solicitor asap, chances are it won't be until next week though as that seems to be their time frame (I dealt with them late last year setting up my will). I know a few more days will drift by but sometimes things are out of your hands. We all know what that is like.

@Cynthia Is the book 'What Makes Love Last' by John Gottman? If so I've located it & once I get the comeback from you I will order it.

@oldshirt I take your view on this 100%. Not just in this but in life. Do you jump in the deep end of a swimming pool when you can't swim? Answer - NO. You go away. You practice. You take your time until you have some confidence. THEN you go for it. It may not work but you have a better chance at least.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Again thanks for all the feedback. Believe it or not I do read all the posts. I may not mention or respond directly to them all but all the different advice/info is taken note of
> 
> Ok first things first. I'm not sure who asked/recommended getting legal advice but I have now done so. Well I phoned a solicitor yesterday, expecting a phone call back this morning to arrange a free 30 minute consultation with them. I can then check exactly where I stand before anything else. @Cynthia I FULLY agree that I need to have THAT conversation with her & I will but I need to make sure I'm covered first legally. I understand to people on here it looks like I am avoiding the issue & days are going by but I'm getting there. I'm working & I'm a carer for my dad at the same time so even though I am very invested in my marriage (obviously) it's not the only thing going on in my life right now. Sometimes when you come home at night all you want to do for your own sanity is sit down with a coffee or a cold beer and switch off for the night! I am sorting things though gradually.
> 
> ...


I'm rooting for you in this difficult time. Glad you are preparing yourself for what it might become inevitable. But you never know...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Looks to me like it’s a fairly easy financial break. Gonna be rough emotionally if course. But the longer you drag it out, the longer it takes to get your life back on track. She may likely want to “be friends” in order to keep you taking care of her emotional needs and honey do list. If you divorce, I advise against it. You’ve been being the husband with no wife for long enough.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> We have separate bank accounts (I have moved my money around in the last couple of weeks too into accounts that won't be picked up on).


You can't hide money during a divorce, so be sure your lawyer is aware of what you did there. 

You also should not be on the hook for child support if the biological father is already paying it. If you are hoping to continue seeing the step-child after the divorce, ask the lawyer about that. You would have to prove that it is in the child's best interest, and depending on age it could be up to the child.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I think we need a Redemption here.
> Red has gotten too accustomed to living in a prison where the guards make you ask to go pee.
> 
> FYI, I left an envelope of cash under a paperweight in the attorney’s office closest to OP’s home. Under an obsidian paperweight that has no earthly business being in a Maine lawyer’s office.
> ...


Not trying to threadjack; but, am I the only one on tenterhooks wanting to know the significance of the 2nd paragraph? Did it involve a big man named Luca Brasi?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

bobert said:


> And it's all meaningless and something this forum LOVES to do - diagnose BPD. Especially you. You pushed and pushed that I must be autistic, and even argued with me about it. And pushed and pushed that my wife "obviously" had BPD, even when the doctors said otherwise. And you do it over and over. It's pathetic.


Holy crap! You're a patient man bobert.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It is to him.
> 
> And he wasn’t prepared for it and would have gone down in the first round.


And the reason he'd go down is he's conflict avoidant. With your analogy someone's going to be prepared to get in the ring with Tyson after six months?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Holy crap! You're a patient man bobert.


He is not the only one to be the target of some misguided persecution. I'm not talking about Oldshirt necessary, but it's highly annoying when people keep distorting the facts quoting stuff from the Iron Age just to prove their point, in some kind of schizophrenic vendetta. It is pathetic and you lose respect for these people. I have lost respect for many. That said, it was me who brought up mental issues because I've lived with mental issues all my life. I thought this might be the case too.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> @Cynthia Is the book 'What Makes Love Last' by John Gottman? If so I've located it & once I get the comeback from you I will order it.


Yes, John Gottman and Nan Silver. Amazon.com: What Makes Love Last?: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal (Audible Audio Edition): Peter Berkrot, Nan Silver, John M. Gottman, Tantor Audio: Audible Books & Originals

Once you read it, I would recommend telling your wife, "Our marriage is on life support and is about to die. If you want to help me save it, read this book that I just finished."


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It isn't about winning. It's about resolution. Avoiding conflict is also avoiding resolution.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> It isn't about winning. It's about resolution. Avoiding conflict is also avoiding resolution.


That is true. 

And as I have stated prior, at some point he will have to engage and deal with the resulting conflict. 

If you don’t like the word ‘winning,’ then let’s use the term resolution to his satisfaction.

If he is to achieve a resolution to his satisfaction, then he will need the knowledge, skills and mindset to be able to navigate, survive and prevail over that conflict when it does occur.

The fact that he has historically been very conflict avoidant means he will need more prepatory time to get his act together and his ducks in a row so he doesn’t fold and kiss her feet the moment she becomes upset with him. 

Seeing an attorney and gathering actual facts about a possible possible divorce is a very legitimate and important prepatory step. 

Many people have an irrational fear of divorce that is based more on myths and fallacies than actual facts. When people are armed with actual facts based on their own specific situations, it often helps alleviate those irrational and inapplicable fears and the have more confidence in considering and discussing it. 

Going back to my boxing analogy, someone who is an MMA fighter will need less prepatory time before getting into the ring with Tyson than a golfer. A golfer will need more time to gather the knowledge, skills and mindset to box than an MMA fighter.

And I have the feeling the OP is more of a chess player that studies strategies and tactics that gets his pieces and strategies in place before making significant moves. 

Time will tell whether his strategies and preparations are advantageous to him or not. Time will tell. 

Either way we need to keep in mind he has a plan and a timeline. It may not be your plan/timeline and it may not be mine. But it is his life and his plan and he has been making forward steps. It may not be fast enough to please the viewership here. But it’s his ball and his ballgame.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> And the reason he'd go down is he's conflict avoidant. With your analogy someone's going to be prepared to get in the ring with Tyson after six months?


It a conceptual analogy and not to be taken literally. 

Many people aren’t prepared to just pack up and leave their home and family and set up shop with a new life in 6 months either.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Either way we need to keep in mind he has a plan and a timeline. It may not be your plan/timeline and it may not be mine. But it is his life and his plan and he has been making forward steps. It may not be fast enough to please the viewership here. But it’s his ball and his ballgame.


Yes. I absolutely agree with you here. This is his life and his decisions. I think he's made good progress in some areas, despite my concerns about communication.

(edited to clarify)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Getting a real plan and progressing toward that plan is definitely the way to overcome something this profoundly hurtful. OP will second guess himself constantly if he leaves. But if he has a plan in place, he will feel better about plowing ahead.

Until he 100% walks and starts to feel happy about leaving, he has no chance of fixing things. His wife will know. She won’t attempt to change unless she feels she has no choice.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

double post


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It a conceptual analogy and not to be taken literally.
> 
> Many people aren’t prepared to just pack up and leave their home and family and set up shop with a new life in 6 months either.


He came here because he wants to fix this. What he's doing (and how he's going about it) won't get him the outcome he desires. In order to do that he needs to be willing to communicate with her because he can't fix this alone. She's the one that has to make the change or to at least show him it's important to her and he can see some sort of progress in that area.

He's given her six months to make the change or he's walking away from the marriage. He knows this...everyone following his thread knows this, but the most important person that needs to make the change and holds all the power to turn this around is clueless. She has NO idea that he's prepared to walk away in four months and the reason she doesn't know is he has NOT told her anything and the reason for this is he's conflict avoidant. 

I get it's his life and he can do whatever he wants and he does NOT have to answer to anyone. However he came here wanting advice and the outcome he desires is to get this situation turned around and to the point where he and his wife are no longer in a sexless marriage.

She may be a lot of things but she is not a mind reader. Yes unless she's a total idiot she knows things in the intimacy department are off and he's not happy with it but she also knows he's been willing to cuddle with her so who could blame her if she doesn't realize that her marriage is hanging on by a thread?

Meanwhile the clock is ticking on his six month plan and for someone who's conflict avoidant nothing he's currently doing is addressing the issue at hand. It may make him feel better about himself and it may even empower him to see that he can walk away from her and that life will go on but that's NOT what he came here seeking. He came here wanting to save his marriage and the only way this can happen is if his wife is the one to change and she has NO idea what's going on. 

She's about to start a new job as well. There's never going to be the right time to let her in on what he's thinking (and prepared to do) and for someone who's conflict avoidant he's going to come up with excuse after excuse after excuse to tell himself to not say anything to her and it's exactly what he's been doing for nearly two years. 

Yes he should see an attorney to see what a divorce would look like. Good for him that he's put the wheels in motion to do this. As pointed out he can't be moving money around trying to hide it from her. That's a no no. 

He's slowly detaching from her and doing things he wants to do (going out with friends....or at least he said he was going to do this). I'll say it again you can NOT change what you will NOT confront and the outcome he desires he still has not sat her down and do what grown @$$ adults do......COMMUNICATE!!

The reason he won't do this (besides being conflict avoidant) is he knows when he left previously after their argument she lost her $hit and has held it against him and more than likely plays into why she's punishing him for leaving her (it's messed up thinking on her part but shows you where her mind is at). 

All that said, now a conflict avoidant person has to sit her down and drop a bomb on her that he may leave for good this time if she doesn't get with the program? It has to be done at some point but nobody wants to be the bearer of bad news ESPECIALLY someone who's afraid of confrontation and someone who saw how it played out last time when he was just removing himself from a situation for a bit.

More than likely OP isn't going to do anything. He isn't going anywhere after the six months runs out. He may tell her at some point and she may get upset but more than likely she won't do anything to really meet his needs and he more than likely doesn't walk away. He does what he's done for the past two years. He's more detached and doing things on his own and it doesn't really affect him like it use to but his situation never changes.

I hope I'm wrong but if I were a betting man that's what I would predict. OP after you visit with an attorney (and before she starts her new job) sit this woman down, be honest, and tell her where you're at and what you're thinking, and that your marriage is hanging on by a thread and your hope is that it can be saved but in order for that to happen here's what she needs to do. She'll then know the truth and if it's important to her (saving her marriage) she'll be willing to show you by her actions how committed she is to change things around. If that's getting into individual counseling, marriage counseling, whatever it takes to show you that your needs are important too. 

The ball will be in her court and all you can do at that point is sit back and see if it's important to her. Does she take action or not? What she does at that point dictates your actions. Nothing? Well she shows you she doesn't love or value you enough to meet your needs. Walk! Or she shows by her actions that she wants to meet your needs and is willing to do whatever she has to show you that you and the marriage is important to her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

sideways said:


> He came here because he wants to fix this. What he's doing (and how he's going about it) won't get him the outcome he desires. In order to do that he needs to be willing to communicate with her because he can't fix this alone. She's the one that has to make the change or to at least show him it's important to her and he can see some sort of progress in that area.
> 
> He's given her six months to make the change or he's walking away from the marriage. He knows this...everyone following his thread knows this, but the most important person that needs to make the change and holds all the power to turn this around is clueless. She has NO idea that he's prepared to walk away in four months and the reason she doesn't know is he has NOT told her anything and the reason for this is he's conflict avoidant.
> 
> ...


The above is accurate. This boils down to she, not OP, needs to make changes. OP can't fix her. The only thing he can do is tell her he is leaving if she doesn't fix it to incentivize her into acknowledging and then fixing the problem.

He isn't directly stating this to her because he is scared of her reaction. The lack of directness is causing there to be no chance for this to work.

He doesn't need to be ready to fight Tyson, just needs to stay strong and calm about his decision. He should be ready for that by about tomorrow. The rules of divorce aren't going to change, so it doesn't matter if he doesn't have them fully figured out. His attorney will figure it out when needed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

re16 said:


> The above is accurate. This boils down to she, not OP, needs to make changes. OP can't fix her. The only thing he can do is tell her he is leaving if she doesn't fix it to incentivize her into acknowledging and then fixing the problem.
> 
> He isn't directly stating this to her because he is scared of her reaction. The lack of directness is causing there to be no chance for this to work.
> 
> He doesn't need to be ready to fight Tyson, just needs to stay strong and calm about his decision. He should be ready for that by about tomorrow. The rules of divorce aren't going to change, so it doesn't matter if he doesn't have them fully figured out. His attorney will figure it out when needed.


In theory and concept this is accurate.

In actual human practice, it’s not as cut and dried. 

He has been giving in to her for years and he may have been raised from birth to supplicate to women and appease them and not upset them. 

It may take him more than flipping a switch or reading a few forum posts to take a life-altering action like leaving a wife behind that tells him she loves him and wants to be with him and couch cuddles him but won’t have sex with him. 

This is a process not an event and everyone has their own timelines and methodologies.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> In theory and concept this is accurate.
> 
> In actual human practice, it’s not as cut and dried.
> 
> ...


I agree - we just differ on timing....OP coming here after 18 months of torture showed he was getting serious. I think the ~60 days he has been on here is long enough to utter the sentence: 'you are not changing and I can't keep doing this'.... 

He got himself in this by being too soft about it and letting it go too long, which perhaps plays into her not being sexually attracted to him currently.... he needs to stop acting so softly.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> This is a process not an event and everyone has their own timelines and methodologies.


I agree. Six months may not be enough time to resolve this, because he isn't communicating properly. Getting to the place where he can do that may take longer than six months. It's not only her that has a time limit. @somedayyouwillfindme also needs personal reflection and growth. Sure if he gets to the point where he is no longer afraid of his wife and is communicating in a healthy way, then perhaps set a time limit on the process. But right now, she doesn't even realize what is happening, yet he is timing her. He is the one who is using up the time.
I realize he's given her a talk, but that's not enough for resolution. There needs to be many talks about her holding resentment and bitterness and what she's doing to resolve it. Those are the marriage killers. Lack of sex is only a symptom.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

He’s had plenty of talks over these nearly 2 years with his wife. How much more talking can the guy do? I got on his case earlier for not initiating anymore but I guess , I have to be in his shoes. How much more talking or groveling can a husband do to get his wife to want to have sex.

He’s now getting and needing guidance on preparing his exit plan. No, he hasn’t said that’s what he wants but that’s exactly where this is going and I can’t blame him. After 20 months all she is willing to do is give him platonic cuddles. What is he, a puppy? Once he’s had the consultation with the lawyer and she’s working again, I suspect things will speed up for him. She will either becomes a loving wife or a single mom.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree with the above, but I fo doubt how serious his talks were. He’s scared she’ll pout, flip out, run off, yell, kick him out, or whatever else she has conditioned him to fear when she gets upset if he expresses displeasure with any of her actions or lack thereof.


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## Mike7777 (9 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> Sounds like she has an aversion to sex… is she afraid of having another child? Seems like you could delicately ask her some questions to figure out what’s going on in her head?


I can relate to this. I'm pretty sure this is why my own wife has an aversion to sex now. We have plenty of kids, and she is very overweight, trying to lose weight at the moment. She is afraid to start another pregnancy from her current weight, and I sympathize. But her fertility hasn't even returned yet, and she's not interested in taking care of my needs. And we are both very religious, following God's laws. No birth control, no masturbation, no adultery, etc. I feel rejected and trapped. I can't even consider divorce for religious and economic reasons. Why did she marry me for life if she didn't want me?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I understand where those of you like @sideways et al are coming from in that he needs to be communicating with her and that she needs to understand what is at stake etc etc. 

But there are a number of things to keep in mind here. One is that he HAS brought this up to her numerous times and she has outright told him no and she has declined MC and therapy etc. She has implied that she might have sex with him if he jumped through more hoops and hurdles but not only has she not followed through but she has outright told him to his face that she won't have sex with him due to being mad at him and not trusting him etc etc but yet she still wants couch cuddles and gets upset when he's around other women etc etc. 

In other words she knows there are issues, knows he is dissatisfied and knows that he is not cool with this. 

Now I realize that women in general probably do not fully grasp how critical sexual is for a man to be in a relationship/marriage,, but I am willing to bet the farm that there is not a female over the age of 14 that truly believes she can reject a man sexually for 2 years and think that there won't be any ramifications or that there won't be a break down in the relationship. 

Now I agree that perhaps she is waiting for him to make a definitive move and maybe even waiting for him to drop the ax so she can make him out to be the bad guy and the sooner he meets this head on, the sooner they can each get on with their lives. I do not argue that point. 

This is going to come to a head at some point. Perhaps once he picks up momentum and gets some confidence in himself and once he meets with an attorney and has a grasp on what a divorce will entail, he may move up his timeline significantly. Or maybe he'll stretch it out longer if he needs to get his ducks in a row more to his satisfaction. 

But let's not pretend that she is going to be some innocent victim getting blindsided and unaware here. She is doing this intentionally and she knows that for a normal, healthy man that this may very well be a nuclear option that could blow up everything, but yet she is still choosing to stay on this path. 

There's not a woman in the world that truly believes a man will just live happily ever after with never having sex again. Maybe she will get mad and upset and cry if he gives her an ultimatum of either addressing their issues and working towards a solution or be a single mother. But she is either aware that it will come to that but her sexual disgust with him is so great she would rather split than have sex with him. 

Or she actually wants to split herself but just hasn't had the ovaries to do it herself and so she's cutting him off in hopes he drops the ax. 

Either way, she is not an innocent victim that doesn't know this will eventually come to a head.


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## Mike7777 (9 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Now I agree that perhaps she is waiting for him to make a definitive move and maybe even waiting for him to drop the ax so she can make him out to be the bad guy and the sooner he meets this head on, the sooner they can each get on with their lives. I do not argue that point.
> 
> But let's not pretend that she is going to be some innocent victim getting blindsided and unaware here. She is doing this intentionally and she knows that for a normal, healthy man that this may very well be a nuclear option that could blow up everything, but yet she is still choosing to stay on this path.
> 
> There's not a woman in the world that truly believes a man will just live happily ever after with never having sex again. Maybe she will get mad and upset and cry if he gives her an ultimatum of either addressing their issues and working towards a solution or be a single mother. But she is either aware that it will come to that but her sexual disgust with him is so great she would rather split than have sex with him.


A lot to agree with here. Most men have testosterone, and desire sexual intimacy. Unless a woman is literally stupid, as in IQ below 60, she must know this.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mike7777 said:


> I can relate to this. I'm pretty sure this is why my own wife has an aversion to sex now. We have plenty of kids, and she is very overweight, trying to lose weight at the moment. She is afraid to start another pregnancy from her current weight, and I sympathize. But her fertility hasn't even returned yet, and she's not interested in taking care of my needs. And we are both very religious, following God's laws. No birth control, no masturbation, no adultery, etc. I feel rejected and trapped. I can't even consider divorce for religious and economic reasons. Why did she marry me for life if she didn't want me?


If you were to start your own discussion thread and tell your story, you will get a lot more input than throwing that in on page 57 of someone else's thread. I suggest starting a new thread and describe your situation.


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

I partly agree with some saying I should sit her down & tell her how serious this is. On the flip side part of me thinks why should I. I have spoken to her about this 7 weeks ago. Did I mention the word 'divorce'? - No. But I told her out rightly how I feel & how it's not normal for a married couple to be the way we are. She heard those words. Granted I can have another chat & tell her that if things don't change I will want a divorce. That chat will probably come sooner or later. Maybe the mention of divorce will be the thing to get her to take notice. Maybe it won't. We have had endless talks about the famous argument over the past 2 years. It's become the bore of my life. Numerous times I have said to over the past 20 months "We have had this conversation numerous times already" or "I've answered your questions regarding it, there really isn't anything else to discuss about it - it's all been said more than once". So it's not like for 2 years we haven't spoken about issues. No they weren't to do with sex but they are quite obviously linked to some extent.

Yes I have only mentioned the sex side of things once to her but she isn't a stupid woman. Like @oldshirt said about a female over the age of 14 realising how withholding sex from a partner will affect them & have ramifications......my wife is 41. She is not a stupid person so she must be well aware how what she is doing is not helping our relationship yet she continues to do it. She said to me 7 weeks ago "I want time & space" - I have given her time & space. Why after 18 months someone needs time & space is beyond me but at that point I thought I will go with it because somewhere down the line I can at least say to her "I tried everything you asked of me to turn our marriage around". I have also suggested counselling to which my wife declined. I suggested a sex therapist to which my wife declined. There comes a point where SHE needs to do something. Yes mentioning divorce & telling her my plan to leave might be the thing to get her to take notice, but really...... if she can't grasp it already she must be more mucked up than I thought for. 

I haven't been cuddling her or anything this past 2 weeks. We haven't kissed. We don't ever say "good night" to each other much now. Just turn over & go to sleep.

I have a 15 minute phone consultation this morning with a solicitor & I'm awaiting to hear back from another solicitor to arrange another 15 minute consultation. I know nothing will get sorted in 15 minutes but it's free & it's a start. Off the back of those I will decide my next move which will probably be pay £150 (roughly) for an hours consultation with one of them. As some have said - once I have things clear in my mind I will probably be a lot calmer about this. I think at present things are going crazy in my head & I'm seeing pictures of her some how benefiting financially long term from all this which is the last thing I want.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Mike7777 said:


> I can relate to this. I'm pretty sure this is why my own wife has an aversion to sex now. We have plenty of kids, and she is very overweight, trying to lose weight at the moment. She is afraid to start another pregnancy from her current weight, and I sympathize. But her fertility hasn't even returned yet, and she's not interested in taking care of my needs. And we are both very religious, following God's laws. No birth control, no masturbation, no adultery, etc. I feel rejected and trapped. I can't even consider divorce for religious and economic reasons. Why did she marry me for life if she didn't want me?





oldshirt said:


> If you were to start your own discussion thread and tell your story, you will get a lot more input than throwing that in on page 57 of someone else's thread. I suggest starting a new thread and describe your situation.


Yes, @Mike7777, please start your own thread. I have some ideas, but won't reply here as to not thread jack.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

You know how to paralyze a woman from the waist down? 
Feed her weddeing cake


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Nobody is suggesting you beg your wife for sex or for her to do anything to try and fix things. You say what you have to say because that's what adults do. 

You now say that you've "mentioned the sex side of things to her ONCE"?? Once in nearly two years. This Is why you're here at TAM. The reason again you haven't said anything is you don't like confrontations and again you can't change what you won't confront. Let me also say there's no guarantee that by confronting it will indeed change but there's no chance if you don't even try.

So no oldshirt he has not "brought this up to her numerous times". Just once in nearly two years.

The only reason I'm saying to OP that he needs to mention the word "divorce" is he has expressed that his desire is to save the marriage and hopefully get back to having sex. Sure she's dug in and calling the shots here.

In regards to the comment that any woman who thinks her man is going to stick around in a sexless relationship would be foolish. Yes this is true but there's quite a few men here on TAM that I've come across over the years are in just that....a sexless relationship and stuck around just like OP is doing.

Will it make a difference if you actually say the word divorce to her (that this is where you're at)? Probably not. Again, OP if your desire is to make a last ditch effort to try and save your marriage and get it to a point where it's no longer sexless than don't you have to try something that you have YET to try??? Nobody is telling you to beg her or to force her to do anything. You shouldn't have to. You're her husband who has needs who have gone unmet for nearly two years. 

You just tell her where this is going. You're the bus driver. You're headed in this direction. She either gets on or she gets off but no matter what you're not stopping. If she decides to stay on the bus (your marriage) things have to change. She either truly grasps this and does what she has to do to meet your needs or she doesn’t. You can't control what she does.

If your mind is already made up than just leave. Do what you've been doing. Get legal advice and your ducks in a row and leave in four months. End of story. 

But again you came here trying to save your marriage and what you're doing has not and will not change anything because you have NOT done anything to confront it. Bringing the sex issue up "once" in nearly two years shows this. And again you don't mention it because you don't like confrontation. FYI OP Nobody likes to confront people but this isn't some stranger. Nope it's your wife and don't you think a man who's marriage is on life support might want to speak up and let her know that you're about to pull the plug?

Nothing you do now, over the next few weeks or months is going to prepare you for this confrontation. No matter when you say what you have to say, it's going to be hard, but again if your desire is throw up one last hail marry to try and get the outcome you desire than don't you think it might behoove you to throw the ball up in the air and see what happens??


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## somedayyouwillfindme (11 mo ago)

sideways said:


> Nobody is suggesting you beg your wife for sex or for her to do anything to try and fix things. You say what you have to say because that's what adults do.
> 
> You now say that you've "mentioned the sex side of things to her ONCE"?? Once in nearly two years. This Is why you're here at TAM. The reason again you haven't said anything is you don't like confrontations and again you can't change what you won't confront. Let me also say there's no guarantee that by confronting it will indeed change but there's no chance if you don't even try.
> 
> ...


Ok I am not afraid of confrontation how you think I am. Really I know most will disagree. What you need to grasp is I am not dealing with someone who reacts like the average adult would. I'm not saying it's an excuse because it isn't but I have to be prepared for a different response, a different evening, a different (possible) few days off the back of breaching a subject like this. With a child in the flat I have to pick a decent time to talk otherwise it could be a whole scene. Maybe in this paragraph I have contradicted myself & it looks like I am conflict avoidance I don't know. The point I am getting across is don't judge me as if I'm talking to a normal person who will give a normal response because I am not. Yes I know that is not my issue - it is hers.

All I know is I have zero issue with conflict in any other aspect of my life. Whether it be an argument in a shop - been there & got the t-shirt, an issue on the phone, been there & got the t-shirt, a man having a go at my wife, been there & got the t-shirt, being over charged in a restaurant, been there & got the t-shirt. So really no I am not conflict avoidant. 

The 18 months flew by. Really so much was going on it wasn't until deep into it I realised how much time had gone by. When I did realise I started researching a few things & it lead me to here. It then became very apparent this wasn't normal so I spoke to her about it as you can seen if you go back to the first few pages of this thread. Like I've said previously I'm basing this on 7 weeks ago when I first spoke about it to my wife. Up until then yes I was rejected here & there but I just had no idea how much time had gone by.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

I'm not judging you OP. Trust me I'm not. Just like everyone else I'm here to help you get the outcome you desire. 

Certainly understand that you're also dealing with a woman who's bringing a lot of other issues into the equation. 

All I'm saying is if you're truly wanting to save this marriage and that you're sticking to this six month time frame than it's in your best interest to let her know what's going on and where you're at. Will that conversation be easy? Obviously not. Do you have someone who you could leave your child with when you speak to her? Have a plan on where you'll go when she blows up after being told.

OP, sitting her down and speaking from the heart and letting her see what this is doing to you and how it's killing you and that you are prepared to leave (not just leave but divorce) is all you can do and how she responds to it will tell you all you need to know as well. 

If she goes off on you and doesn't take you seriously and comes up with excuse after excuse and makes it about herself then there's your answer. She'll be showing you and telling you there's nothing to try and save here because she doesn't love you nor care about your needs and your happiness. If she did she wouldn't be defensive or blow up on you and would be willing to do anything to make you happy. Again you can't control what she does or how she responds.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

His wife is aware of the problem and his concerns regarding it. She hasn't made any gestures in 7 weeks to fix it. I don't know that the OP needs to spell out d-i-v-o-r-c-e in order for her to take his discontent seriously. Who wants to have sex with a person who is only putting out because they feel they have a gun at their head (divorce)?

Next week, the OP can say he's only had sex 2 times with his wife in the past twenty months.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> His wife is aware of the problem and his concerns regarding it. She hasn't made any gestures in 7 weeks to fix it. I don't know that the OP needs to spell out d-i-v-o-r-c-e in order for her to take his discontent seriously. Who wants to have sex with a person who is only putting out because they feel they have a gun at their head (divorce)?
> 
> Next week, the OP can say he's only had sex 2 times with his wife in the past twenty months.


She needs a shrink.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> She said to me 7 weeks ago "I want time & space" - I have given her time & space. Why after 18 months someone needs time & space is beyond me but at that point I thought I will go with it because somewhere down the line I can at least say to her "I tried everything you asked of me to turn our marriage around".


When a woman says that they want time and space, that's code for "I want out."


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> She needs a shrink.


Possibly; not his problem nor bailiwick, though.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Possibly; not his problem nor bailiwick, though.


No, it's not his problem if she doesn't want to go. Well, it will be his problem because he won't have a wife any more. But a totally sexless marriage is not acceptable, at least not to me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@sideways and @somedayyouwillfindme let’s compromise and meet in the middle somewhere. 

@somedayyouwillfindme could you make a sincere boba fide attempt to initiate this coming up weekend? 

If she gives a hard no, then don’t argue, don’t make threats, don’t get angry or emotional and above all else, do not respond to her emotionally if she gets emotional or angry etc.

.....just simply ask why. 

Ask her in a sincere, inquisitive manner why she does not want intimacy, pleasure and orgasms in her marriage.

Listen to her answer and learn from it. Do not argue with her or dispute her answer. Instead let it soak in and use that information to determine if you want to continue with this or not. 

It’s fair to inform her that you wish to have an intimate life and that it is important to you, but do not be drawn into a fight or argument. 

Assuming she is this nutty, this will require possibly years of therapy and professional guidance. You will not be able to fix it yourself with talk. So don’t be drawn into a fight. 

Do not threaten her with divorce or give any ultimatums at this time, but take what she says as part of your decision process on whether you want to pursue a marital life with her any further or not. 

This is a fair and reasonable step to take at this point.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diceplayer said:


> When a woman says that they want time and space, that's code for "I want out."


Not always. Often, but not always.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@somedayyouwillfindme In general, what kind of a person is your wife? How does she react to being challenged on matters? How does she react when she is in the wrong and if she knows she is in the wrong?

Does she have mental health issues that you are aware of? Are there any "tells" that she has? Is she possibly on the autism spectrum or ADHD, etc?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> I partly agree with some saying I should sit her down & tell her how serious this is. On the flip side part of me thinks why should I. I have spoken to her about this 7 weeks ago. Did I mention the word 'divorce'? - No. But I told her out rightly how I feel & how it's not normal for a married couple to be the way we are. She heard those words. Granted I can have another chat & tell her that if things don't change I will want a divorce. That chat will probably come sooner or later. Maybe the mention of divorce will be the thing to get her to take notice. Maybe it won't. We have had endless talks about the famous argument over the past 2 years. It's become the bore of my life. Numerous times I have said to over the past 20 months "We have had this conversation numerous times already" or "I've answered your questions regarding it, there really isn't anything else to discuss about it - it's all been said more than once". So it's not like for 2 years we haven't spoken about issues. No they weren't to do with sex but they are quite obviously linked to some extent.
> 
> Yes I have only mentioned the sex side of things once to her but she isn't a stupid woman. Like @oldshirt said about a female over the age of 14 realising how withholding sex from a partner will affect them & have ramifications......my wife is 41. She is not a stupid person so she must be well aware how what she is doing is not helping our relationship yet she continues to do it. She said to me 7 weeks ago "I want time & space" - I have given her time & space. Why after 18 months someone needs time & space is beyond me but at that point I thought I will go with it because somewhere down the line I can at least say to her "I tried everything you asked of me to turn our marriage around". I have also suggested counselling to which my wife declined. I suggested a sex therapist to which my wife declined. There comes a point where SHE needs to do something. Yes mentioning divorce & telling her my plan to leave might be the thing to get her to take notice, but really...... if she can't grasp it already she must be more mucked up than I thought for.
> 
> ...


You are starting to sound like a man who really has had enough. I’m glad you are checking in to attorneys and finding out how much you’ll be on the hook for. If your wife is satisfied with being roommates as you describe, I can’t see anything with her that would represent what a wife should be— someone that adds happiness to your life.

What you said makes sense. You do sound like you’ve talked with her over and over and it goes nowhere. She doesn’t WANT to have a loving romantic relationship with you and comes up with constant excuses anytime it’s mentioned that you’d like one. 
Let her go. She’s already let you go. I think after reading your last post, telling her you’re going to divorce her is a waste of time.

She apparently thinks you’re such a chump, that you’ll accept this kind of behavior. I wouldn’t feel bad about surprising someone that did me this way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> @sideways and @somedayyouwillfindme let’s compromise and meet in the middle somewhere.
> 
> @somedayyouwillfindme
> 
> ...


Let me expand on this a little more.

If she says no, simply ask her why she does not want an intimate relationship with you.

This is for YOUR information and to be considered as part of your decision process. 

It is NOT so that you can confront her, argue with her, dispute her claims or try to negotiate or convince her of anything. Do not make any threats or ultimatums etc at this time.

If she gives you a legitimate rational that you are capable of fixing so as you have gotten fat and slovenly and have bad breath and BO,, then you can see about correcting that. 

If she goes back to your argument 2 years ago, that will likely require professional MC and therapy to get fixed if it can be fixed at all.

And if she gives you something nonsensical and nebulous like need “space” or feeling pressured or doesn’t feel “safe” or not in the mood or doesn’t think about sex etc etc etc - then you need to determine for yourself whether this is where you want to be at all or not and where you even want to try to chase that windmill. 

Bottom line is don’t confront or get into any kind of argument if you don’t feel ready for that, but rather gather information for your own decision making process to see if any of this is even going to be worth it for you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

...... after all whats the worst that could happen if do this? — - she says no and doesn’t have sex with you??


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

After a thousand responses I believe every option has been conveyed.

OP, what are YOU going to do next?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> She needs a shrink.


Yep. But she is unwilling to do so, which is a symptom of her need for...a shrink.

There has been some BPD stuff thrown around in this thread, but I don't think that fits. 

What does fit is OCD...the unwillingness to let things go...control...anxiety...perfectionism...it all sounds like OCD from my purview. 

That said, whatever three letter psych issue applies really has no bearing on what the OP should do. Healthy people fix themselves; codependents TRY to fix others. 

All he can do is provide the right environment (carrot or stick) to motivate her to seek help on her own.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> @sideways and @somedayyouwillfindme let’s compromise and meet in the middle somewhere.
> 
> @somedayyouwillfindme could you make a sincere boba fide attempt to initiate this coming up weekend?
> 
> ...


I don't see anything particularly wrong with this. As addressed in your subsequent post, he may receive a platitude for an answer...which isn't really an answer at all.



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't see anything particularly wrong with this. As addressed in your subsequent post, he may receive a platitude for an answer...which isn't really an answer at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


A nonanswer is in fact a pretty powerful answer when you really think about it. 

A nonsensical answer actually gives you a lot of valuable information on where things really stand.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> A nonanswer is in fact a pretty powerful answer when you really think about it.
> 
> A nonsensical answer actually gives you a lot of valuable information on where things really stand.


I agree that it gives him/us an answer.

The pitfall people normally hit when receiving a 'non-answer' answer is actually thinking it is a useful data point for some type of deep analysis...which it isn't. 

It is simply a confirmation that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. 


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree that it gives him/us an answer.
> 
> The pitfall people normally hit when receiving a 'non-answer' answer is actually thinking it is a useful data point for some type of deep analysis...which it isn't.
> 
> ...


Yup.

A good example of that was my first love and first real GF.

She fairly suddenly went from hot to ice cold. I started to really push her for answers and all that would come out of her mouth was, “I’m change’n.”

Of course my interrogation continued as I didn’t know if she was changing into a transformer or an alien replicant or what.

I wanted nuts and bolts answers that made sense and something that I could use to change her back.

But it finally dawned on me that despite whatever strange and mysterious transformations that might be taking place, the bottom line was she didn’t like me anymore and since I didn’t transform her to begin with, then I couldn’t transform her back either. 

Her answers were nebulous and nonsensical, but it told me everything I needed to know nonetheless.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

I think we're on the same page oldshirt. Conveying what he has to say to her doesn't mean he should be getting into an argument with her, showing how frustrated he is with all of this, nor trying to persuade or convince her to do anything. 

He just says where he's at and whatever she wants to do with this info is up to her. Based upon what OP has stated in previous posts she most definitely is going to get defensive and blow up on him. Which reinforces what and who he's dealing with. It also will give him some peace when he does walk away that he did everything in his power to try and make it work with her. He owes that to himself and his child.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> He owes that to himself and his child.


It’s not even his child. It is HER child.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

So much emphasis on what OP's wife is or is not doing. The OP is doing fairly nothing; he doesn't cuddle or say goodnight.
I notice that the OP is doing nothing. Has it occurred to any person beside myself that OP, despite other posters projections, is content with sexless companionship? He may not really care and his actions provide evidence that he does not.care if his wife has sex with him. 
A person who cares about sex would not have 59/60 pages and nearly two years of no sex behind them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

harperlee said:


> So much emphasis on what OP's wife is or is not doing. The OP is doing fairly nothing; he doesn't cuddle or say goodnight.
> I notice that the OP is doing nothing. Has it occurred to any person beside myself that OP, despite other posters projections, is content with sexless companionship? He may not really care and his actions provide evidence that he does not.care if his wife has sex with him.
> A person who cares about sex would not have 59/60 pages and nearly two years of no sex behind them.


Yes this was noted and discussed way back in the earlier pages of the thread. 

His passivity and lack of action has contributed significantly to his own celibacy. 

If he wants to have a sex life, he is going to have to take definitive action whether it is with her or with someone else.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It’s not even his child. It is HER child.


That's right....forgot that.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Yes this was noted and discussed way back in the earlier pages of the thread.
> 
> His passivity and lack of action has contributed significantly to his own celibacy.
> 
> If he wants to have a sex life, he is going to have to take definitive action whether it is with her or with someone else.


Correct. It appears that he does not. That's ok.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I would advise you not to have the divorce talk. She will respond just to keep you from divorcing her. Or turn your name to mud because it is just sex.

If you do talk with her about it, at least wait until she is working.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ABHale said:


> If you do talk with her about it, at least wait until she is working.


Yes.

If divorce does become a possibility, you want her fully employed so as to reduce/eliminate spousal support. 

Some women will even quit their jobs if they think divorce is on the horizon so that they can get more spousal support. 

The more entitled and manipulative a woman is (such as someone who wants cuddles, financial support, domestic and childcare assistance while refusing a sexual relationship) is more likely to scuttle their own livelihood in order to obtain more spousal support post divorce.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

ABHale said:


> I would advise you not to have the divorce talk. She will respond just to keep you from divorcing her. Or turn your name to mud because it is just sex.
> 
> If you do talk with her about it, at least wait until she is working.


I don't think he has to say "divorce" just that the situation is not working. He's mentioned this only ONCE. He needs to mention it more....


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

re16 said:


> I don't think he has to say "divorce" just that the situation is not working. He's mentioned this only ONCE. He needs to mention it more....


Just tell her he will not be in a sexless marriage. She can connect the dots.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

How are things @somedayyouwillfindme ?


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## StutterStepPause (9 mo ago)

somedayyouwillfindme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just need some advice please. My wife & I have been together 9 years & married 5 years. Sex to start with was amazing, regular & trying all sorts of things. Over the years that past by to just normal straight forward sex which I don't mind at all. I understand that the start of a relationship is always full of excitement. The problem has been over the last 18 months where we have had sex twice. I try to initiate things but I get nothing in return. My wife loves to cuddle me, texts me when I'm out & calls me so I know she loves me but she has gone off sex. We had a couple of big arguments 18 months ago so I assume it is linked to that but not over anything drastic like cheating. Just a family dispute which lead to shouting & name calling etc.
> 
> ...


“I know she is unhappy…and depressed..” and you’re treating her worse because she doesn’t want to have sex? How about trying to help your wife with her depression so she can actually enjoy being intimate with you? Or are you more concerned with your sexual needs than her mental health?? Could you enjoy having sex with someone knowing that she’s unhappy? I have so many questions.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

StutterStepPause said:


> “I know she is unhappy…and depressed..” and you’re treating her worse because she doesn’t want to have sex? How about trying to help your wife with her depression so she can actually enjoy being intimate with you? Or are you more concerned with your sexual needs than her mental health?? Could you enjoy having sex with someone knowing that she’s unhappy? I have so many questions.


Yep, he should go on like this for eternity... Oh, and he is responsible for fixing her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StutterStepPause said:


> “I know she is unhappy…and depressed..” and you’re treating her worse because she doesn’t want to have sex? How about trying to help your wife with her depression so she can actually enjoy being intimate with you? Or are you more concerned with your sexual needs than her mental health?? Could you enjoy having sex with someone knowing that she’s unhappy? I have so many questions.


Really? So far all you believe is only hubby caused these issues, and only H is responsible to correct?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

StutterStepPause said:


> “I know she is unhappy…and depressed..” and you’re treating her worse because she doesn’t want to have sex? How about trying to help your wife with her depression so she can actually enjoy being intimate with you? Or are you more concerned with your sexual needs than her mental health?? Could you enjoy having sex with someone knowing that she’s unhappy? I have so many questions.


Oh! It looks like @somedayyouwillfindme's wife has found his thread. lol JK

I could certainly enjoy sex with my husband if he were depressed. Sex makes people feel closer to each other and puts people in a better mood. I'm not saying that it can cure depression, but it sure doesn't make it any worse. In fact, if a person is depressed, because they don't have a sex life with their spouse, correcting that lack of sex could cure depression in that case.

It is very strange to me that you think he is more concerned with having his sexual needs met than he is about his wife's mental health. You make sex sound like some kind of evil or danger to mental health. It seems that you think a depressed person is in danger if their spouse wants a sexual relationship with them. If I'm feeling down, being in the arms of the man I love does me a world of good.


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## Contrarian2021 (9 mo ago)

I think OP you just have to accept the reality that your wife is not interested in you sexually anymore.

Twice in 18 months and then nothing after you spoke with her that is all clear she doesn't want it with you.

You can make excuses all day long, but that is just excuses to not have to face the reality that she does not want to be intimate with you at all.

All her excuses of the argument you had over 18 months ago, and the kid being next door, or her not wanting to start because you may want to lead to sex, and her telling you not to pressure her etc. are all just lame. She is literally trying to find anything she can think of to not have to sleep with you, or do anything sexual with you at all.

As a man at this stage you need to face the facts and stop deluding yourself thinking more time will change anything. Whatever the real reason is as to why she really does not want to be intimate with you has not been addressed, so more time will not change anything, she just wants to avoid sex or intimacy with you at any cost it seems.

Now one final thing I would suggest you do to try to find out whether she finds any intimacy repulsive with you or not, or if it really is just sex. And that is to plan a day where you tell her this evening you want to make her feel good, and you make it crystal clear that you will not initiate sex with her as you understand she doesn't want to be pressured, but you want to still make her feel good. And that the evening is about pleasing her only. Then spend that evening giving her a sexual massage and pleasing her orally without initiating sexual penetration at all. She needs to know that will not happen, but you really just want to make her feel good and get her off. You just want to pleasure her only.

If she allows it you would be able to tell from her body language if she enjoys you touching her not, or if she is just waiting for it to be over. Naturally if she is enjoying it you would know, and she may want to return the favour without the sex with you too if she desires you.

Now if she does not even allow you to do that then it's probably over mate, she literally must find you sexually repulsive and has no sexual interest in you at all.

And if that is the case as a man you should not even want to be with a woman that no longer wants any intimacy with you. Because deep down if you have to threaten her with divorce to bang you that should be a huge turn off; knowing she is only putting out not because she desires you at all, rather out of fear. Basically she is forcing herself to do it... personally that would turn me off if I knew my wife was forcing herself to be intimate with me, but deep down she felt sick doing it.

Deal breaker time to move on if that is the case.

Lastly, unless she tells you the real reason why she no longer wants intimacy with you, you will never be able to fix it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> Oh! It looks like @somedayyouwillfindme's wife has found his thread. lol JK


Has is wife all of a sudden moved to Canada? Unless you are being facetious...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Been a while since he’s made a report. Hopefully he’s getting some resolve to change his life one way or another.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

StutterStepPause said:


> “I know she is unhappy…and depressed..” and you’re treating her worse because she doesn’t want to have sex? How about trying to help your wife with her depression so she can actually enjoy being intimate with you? Or are you more concerned with your sexual needs than her mental health?? Could you enjoy having sex with someone knowing that she’s unhappy? I have so many questions.


Her emotional and mental issues were discussed here back in early February.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Has is wife all of a sudden moved to Canada? Unless you are being facetious...


JK means just kidding, so, yes, I was being silly. I thought a little humor might lighten things up a bit. 😊


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> JK means just kidding, so, yes, I was being silly. I thought a little humor might lighten things up a bit. 😊


sorry, I missed the JK...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@somedayyouwillfindme any updates?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

OP I hope you are ok and that things work out for the best whatever that may be. I hope your plan is going to plan and would be good if your wife was showing anything at all, like she could maybe feeling guilty for withholding sex. Doubt that though but would mean she is trying to help. Her lack of everything seems like she is happy to have a sex free marriage and not give a **** about you. If you do decide to walk away you will have lots of support and good help and advice for moving forward.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What’s the update? Has your wife started working now? Has their been any changes/improvements?
An update would be nice - as many changes should have happened by now.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@somedayyouwillfindme What's been going on? Your wife should have been back to work for some time now. Any changes in your status?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

There should be plenty to report. What’s the update now that things should have changed with her beginning a new job.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Has is wife all of a sudden moved to Canada? Unless you are being facetious...


That’s how bad she doesn’t want to have sex with him….


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Has is wife all of a sudden moved to Canada?


She may have moved to Canada and started raising goats.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> She may have moved to Canada and started raising goats.


Haha, too funny. 

I just wanna know if OP’s username is a reference to Oasis. Assuming it is, then he may be the type of guy I would have talked to 9 years ago and thought was a great match for me 🤣


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Zombie cat where r u?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

His wife sounds like mine when I try talking with her about our dead bedroom. She gets defensive. 

Definitely recommend those books though. I’m getting into better shape at the gym despite her lack of desire for me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Zombie cat where r u?


NO! We need to shew that cat away! 

He’ll be back. He was going to talk to her. It will all be better. 

Besides, he was going to wait and see if she gets horny in 6 months. 

We’ll be at the 6 month mark in just a few weeks. I want to see if she is horny and jumps his bones next month.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> NO! We need to shew that cat away!
> 
> He’ll be back. He was going to talk to her. It will all be better.
> 
> ...


The cat can come live with me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Zombie cat... please!


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## too old (4 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> How are things @somedayyouwillfindme ?


So how did this end?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)




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