# hard time dealing with limbo



## CantBelieveThis

10 months into Dday, R is going ok she is doing the right things but I am so stuck on limbo...sometimes want to stay other times want to file for D, varies thru the day.....
this just sucks, how do others deal with this? anything helps.....


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## CantBelieveThis

sometimes i feel like staying because she totally regrets it and very remorseful....cries a lot, begs me to stay and to keep our family together and I dont want to tear the family apart either (3 kids) but other times I just feel so wronged and that i dont have what it takes to overcome the betrayal (2 months EA/PA).....have read books, gone to IC/MC....and those things help but like they arent strong enough to overcome these feelings....is 10 months way too soon for me to expect more??


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## jim123

It would be unusual not to be conflicted. The key is to work on you first. Get yourself in a position that you are doing what you want versus reacting.

It is very difficult for a BH because you are isolated, embarrassed and hurt.

I always advise strong actions so you can regain some confidence and control. You need to feel better about you.


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## CantBelieveThis

what are examples of some stronge actions? like file for D and not finish it? move out? i dont want to hurt the kids


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## the guy

The only thing that helped me is I started to get really positives things out of my wife and my marriage.

There is a certain degree of forgiveness that you need and a long with the postive things that I focused on I was able to keep my old lady around.

In my case there was enough wrong to be passed around that is why it was easier to forgive. It maybe that you were so wronged that you need to tell your old lady she needs to be more submissive to your needs if she wants to stick around...IDK maybe it was a wrong that was so undiserving it might be time to just get the hell out...only you know for sure and only you know how much grace you have in you to forgive.


One thing is for sure is its way to early...in my case i set a time limit of one year and if i felt differently after that one year then I would have bailed...but Mrs.the-guy has been doing some real heavy lifting to stick around for awhile.


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## the guy

jim123 said:


> It would be unusual not to be conflicted. The key is to work on you first. Get yourself in a position that you are doing what you want versus reacting.
> 
> It is very difficult for a BH because you are isolated, embarrassed and hurt.
> 
> I always advise strong actions so you can regain some confidence and control. You need to feel better about you.


I'm thinking stonge action would either be divorce or forgive!

But give it a full year and readress it.


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## the guy

It took me about 2 yrs to get out of the place you are in now.

Its been 4 yrs since d day and my old lady is still doing everything right so with the right chick you can work this out together.

But if your old lady is giving you any kind of sh1t I would bail.


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## Wazza

It took me years to come to terms with it all. 

Talk about it. Talk honestly and specifically and work through your feelings. While there is unresolved stuff in there you will not heal.


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## CantBelieveThis

i really dont know if I can ask her to do much more, I feel she is doing a lot, if there is more I can ask of her then i dont know what that is.....we go out together a lot, she is constantly loving me, tons of sex, we talk a lot, she comforts me plenty (though she breaks down rather quickly if I get in a negative mood about the whole thing)

_only you know for sure and only you know how much grace you have in you to forgive._

how do i find this out for sure? I have read plenty that the swing in emotions are normal so I dont want to base a lifelong decision on swinging emotions and regret it later.


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> what are examples of some stronge actions? like file for D and not finish it? move out? i dont want to hurt the kids


You do not move out. She does. You did not hurt the kids, she did. You do not have to file D, at the very least you should see an attorney.

Disclosure also helps, don't do it alone. You need people to talk to.

Who was the affair with and the reason why she has given you? That can matter too.


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## jim123

the guy said:


> I'm thinking stonge action would either be divorce or forgive!
> 
> But give it a full year and readress it.


I do not agree with the give it a year. Get the anger out and the head together right away. The worst thing people do is nothing and rugsweep. 

By letting her go you know if she still wants the M. By letting go you know if you want the M.

Do live in fear. Do not live with anger.


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## BobSimmons

CantBelieveThis said:


> i really dont know if I can ask her to do much more, I feel she is doing a lot, if there is more I can ask of her then i dont know what that is.....*we go out together a lot, she is constantly loving me, tons of sex, we talk a lot, she comforts me plenty **(though she breaks down rather quickly if I get in a negative mood about the whole thing)*
> 
> _only you know for sure and only you know how much grace you have in you to forgive._
> 
> how do i find this out for sure? I have read plenty that the swing in emotions are normal so I dont want to base a lifelong decision on swinging emotions and regret it later.


What do you talk about? Everything appears to be great, you're getting it all but somewhere do you think it feels slightly off?

You get into a negative mood, she breaks down, so I guess you can't continue to be negative because that makes you look like some kind of unfeeling a**h*le, so you let it go even though you really haven't worked through your anger.

Your wife appears to be in R (her version at least) while you still describe it as limbo, very telling.

From what you say (and this is only my opinion) She doing and saying all the right things to keep you in check but you're really not feeling it.


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## CantBelieveThis

it was only a 2 month affair with someone she met while in nursing school, some loser who is now in jail....typical BS she didnt feel i was paying attention to her and was taking her for granted, blah blah....and I wasnt to be honest...i was too focused on work and stuff, but as we all know thats dam no excuse for an affair, she knows this fully and admits it since day one (I caught her)....

i just feel weird making her leave now after 10 months together and her working so hard....plus the impact to the kids, i need her to take care of the kids, i cant do it alone with my work....when i mention separation she totally breaks down, starts begging, throws herself to my feet, etc ,etc i would feel bad making her leave now.....i have left for a week at a time like 3 times already on business trips and i do come back feeling better and I miss her....


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## CantBelieveThis

for example one thing is when I try to tell her that for what she has done I could easily divorce her and leave...but then she tells me thats the easy way out and that strong couples and in love as we are stick it out and work thru things....then am like WTF?? you were going to dump our marriage for some effing loser!!! 
then she tells me that she knows how wrong she was and how thats the worst thing she has ever done in her life and that i shouldnt fix a wrong with another wrong.....so in the end i feel like i failed to make my point across....that she violated our marriage vows completely and for that alone its my choice to leave if I want to and she cant blame me for that.....


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## Openminded

Everyone struggles with R in their own way. There's nothing easy about being betrayed by the one person on earth you thought would never betray you. It's a shock and the triggers can go on for years. Or decades (in my case). However, many people R successfully. 

I'm not really qualified to talk about successful R since mine failed after 30 years and now I tend to be really cynical. But there are R success stories here. Listen to them.


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> for example one thing is when I try to tell her that for what she has done I could easily divorce her and leave...but then she tells me thats the easy way out and that strong couples and in love as we are stick it out and work thru things....then am like WTF?? you were going to dump our marriage for some effing loser!!!
> then she tells me that she knows how wrong she was and how thats the worst thing she has ever done in her life and that i shouldnt fix a wrong with another wrong.....so in the end i feel like i failed to make my point across....that she violated our marriage vows completely and for that alone its my choice to leave if I want to and she cant blame me for that.....


Actually she took the easy way out. What would have happened if it was not a loser? Would she be gone? What happens the next time there is an issue in your M as there always will be.

She has shown that she does not stick and work through things, instead she went outside the M. 

Why is you finding someone who loves you wrong? She brought someone now in jail into your life and the life of your children. What happens when he gets out? What happens if he wants to see your wife?


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## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> Actually she took the easy way out. What would have happened if it was not a loser? Would she be gone? What happens the next time there is an issue in your M as there always will be.
> 
> She has shown that she does not stick and work through things, instead she went outside the M.
> 
> Why is you finding someone who loves you wrong? She brought someone now in jail into your life and the life of your children. What happens when he gets out? What happens if he wants to see your wife?


exactly...i tell her the same thing and she just tells me she was very wrong and I shouldnt fix a wrong with a wrong (me leaving the marriage)....she tells me what she did was despicable and all the bad things and that she will never be able to make it up to me, etc, etc but i feel she uses this to make my leaving as wrong.....she also says her plan was never to leave me for him but instead she couldnt keep living with me ignoring her so yes she admits she took a very wrong way about addressing her needs....we go back and forth over this and i feel i dont get anywhere.....

they kind of both agreed to end the affair couple days after i found out, though it wasnt until almost 3 weeks later that she found out he was out on bond and was going to jail (which she was pissed that he didnt tell her about)....hell the guy sent "me" the NC letter himself!! so i dont think he is going to want to come back to her after 5 years when he gets out


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## jim123

Why is leaving a wrong? Lot's of people D. It is a very normal reaction to an A.

It took a few days after you found out? Why so long? If she loved you it would have been immediate. I would not believe that she did not plan to leave you given it was not right away. 

She is still only looking out for herself. This is what is best for her.

What do you go back and forth about regarding the A.

He may want NC now but 3-5 years in jail is a long time and an easy lay goes a long way when you get out.


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## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> Why is leaving a wrong? Lot's of people D. It is a very normal reaction to an A.
> 
> It took a few days after you found out? Why so long? If she loved you it would have been immediate. I would not believe that she did not plan to leave you given it was not right away.
> 
> She is still only looking out for herself. This is what is best for her.
> 
> What do you go back and forth about regarding the A.
> 
> He may want NC now but 3-5 years in jail is a long time and an easy lay goes a long way when you get out.


she says if I divorce i would break up the family, will be so hard on the kids, etc, etc....and that she doesnt want to lose me, she has always loved me but that she thought i had changed and was taking her for grantet and didnt want her anymore.

she took a few days because she says she wasnt sure if I was going to change, she said I had stopped caring for so long she was doubtful I was going to change and she needed some time to see that (yea right, she was in the fog thats all)

the only thing I go back and forth is that I still love her and love my family together.....but then i go back to how could someone betray me like this, so hard to cope with.....


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## Whip Morgan

She is manipulating you. Not very remorseful. More like a cheater's behavior than someone who is genuinely sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown

How would she feel if you had the affair?

She sure picked a winner.


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## the guy

What is she doing to affair proof the marriage in the future?

She points fingers at the problematic marriage, but what is she doing in addressing her own issue. She didn't grow up wanting to be an adultorer. She admits she made unhealth choices...why make these choices when there were healthier options?

She wanted to do this...why...and how will she prevent it from happening again.

Hell my old lady went straight for 5 years once....then went back to the SOS.


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## Chaparral

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says if I divorce i would break up the family, will be so hard on the kids, etc, etc....and that she doesnt want to lose me, she has always loved me but that she thought i had changed and was taking her for grantet and didnt want her anymore.
> 
> she took a few days because she says she wasnt sure if I was going to change, she said I had stopped caring for so long she was doubtful I was going to change and she needed some time to see that (yea right, she was in the fog thats all)
> 
> the only thing I go back and forth is that I still love her and love my family together.....but then i go back to how could someone betray me like this, so hard to cope with.....


I read an article the other day and if I remember correctly, thinking their husband/boyfriend doesn't love them anymore was one of the four big reasons women cheat(start looking for a new partner). It doesn't justify cheating but it is what it is.


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## Chaparral

Btw, you should check out the threads in the reconciliation section and the two divorce sections too.

Google infidelity and divorce statistics, and then google their effects on children.

If you go with divorce go to dadsdivorce.com.


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## happyman64

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says if I divorce i would break up the family, will be so hard on the kids, etc, etc....and that she doesnt want to lose me, she has always loved me but that she thought i had changed and was taking her for grantet and didnt want her anymore.
> 
> she took a few days because she says she wasnt sure if I was going to change, she said I had stopped caring for so long she was doubtful I was going to change and she needed some time to see that (yea right, she was in the fog thats all)
> 
> the only thing I go back and forth is that I still love her and love my family together.....but then i go back to how could someone betray me like this, so hard to cope with.....


Can I make a suggestion?

Why not go for counseling?

You still love her. Even after her betrayal. A good counselor can help her with her issues while helping you deal with her betrayal.

A good counselor can help you determine if she is worth reconciling with.

You said your wife is remorseful. You said she is trying. Well if she really wants you and to keep the marriage together she will do what it takes to work on her issues and help you form a strong marriage again.

Counseling is one way of doing this.

If you get the right counselor your decision will be easier knowing if you can reconcile or not. It will help you determine if you can forgive your wife. If she is worthy of your forgiveness.

It will also give you time for your emotions to settle. 

If your wife was not remorseful I would agree with the others to proceed with Divorce.

But if your wife is working at repairing the marriage and you love her and miss her when away then a consequence she should deal with is professional counseling.

That should give her some attention she was lacking. 

HM


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## nickgtg

CantBelieveThis said:


> what are examples of some stronge actions? like file for D and not finish it? move out?* i dont want to hurt the kids*


Nobody wants to hurt their kids, but you need to think about your happiness first. What kind of impression does it make on your kids when the see you sad or unhappy?

Trust me, my kids are 10, 11, and 14, and they knew something was wrong in the house. 

Let your wife do what she needs to do, but it's time to focus on yourself and whatever makes you happy. If it's divorce, your kids will adapt. They would much rather have a happy daddy than a sad one.


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## Wazza

jim123 said:


> Why is leaving a wrong? Lot's of people D. It is a very normal reaction to an A.


It's an emotionally charged question.

I suggest there is no right answer. You have to judge the circumstances case by case. 

I stayed for the sake of my kids, and am glad I did. I am also religious, and took my "till death do us part" promise seriously. I would have been entitled to end the marriage over my wife's infidelity, but I was not comfortable with it. Those things will colour any answer I give you.

Others here divorced, and they will have a different perspective.

By staying, I ensured my kids grew up with a stable family, were not exposed to the risk of abuse by boyfriends / stepdads, etc, and had a better financial future. 

Relationship wise, we had a a few rough years, then some civil but not passionate years. Now things are very good. But there was never a guarantee of that. Had things been different, I think I would have seen the kids grown and then remarried.

I grew a lot as a person out of all this. I am stronger, more together, and better at relationships. But having said that, it only works because my wife is a good wife. I could never have become good enough at relationships to make it work alone.


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## Wazza

nickgtg said:


> Nobody wants to hurt their kids, but you need to think about your happiness first. What kind of impression does it make on your kids when the see you sad or unhappy?
> 
> Trust me, my kids are 10, 11, and 14, and they knew something was wrong in the house.
> 
> Let your wife do what she needs to do, but it's time to focus on yourself and whatever makes you happy. If it's divorce, your kids will adapt. They would much rather have a happy daddy than a sad one.


Are you saying that your happiness comes ahead of your kids' happiness?

Google "divorce impact on children". The notion that they will just adapt is not true. EG:

How divorcing parents delude themselves about the effect on children: Only a fifth of youngsters say they're happy after split | Mail Online

That doesn't mean stay at any costs, and if you are going to stay you need to find a civil relationship with your spouse. It's a hard decision.


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## nickgtg

Wazza said:


> Are you saying that your happiness comes ahead of your kids' happiness?
> 
> Google "divorce impact on children". The notion that they will just adapt is not true. EG:
> 
> How divorcing parents delude themselves about the effect on children: Only a fifth of youngsters say they're happy after split | Mail Online
> 
> That doesn't mean stay at any costs, and if you are going to stay you need to find a civil relationship with your spouse. It's a hard decision.


If you're asking me if staying just for the kids is better than being unhappy and miserable, then yes. What does it show your kids staying in a miserable marriage?

I don't need to read some "google" article, I'm living it. 

I'm saying that in order for your kids to be happy then you must be happy yourself. I'm sorry, but I won't put up with someone who lies and can't be trusted.


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## Wazza

nickgtg said:


> If you're asking me if staying just for the kids is better than being unhappy and miserable, then yes. What does it show your kids staying in a miserable marriage?
> 
> I don't need to read some "google" article, I'm living it.
> 
> I'm saying that in order for your kids to be happy then you must be happy yourself. I'm sorry, but I won't put up with someone who lies and can't be trusted.


I've lived it too. Any one of us who has been betrayed has had a spouse who lies and can't be trusted.

But you are not living your kids experience. You are living yours. And there is a lot of research suggesting that your kids will experience all sorts of impacts based on your decision, from lesser academic performance to increased risk of drug abuse and criminal behaviour. 

I'm not suggesting that you should have stayed, I don't know your specific circumstances. Trust can be rebuilt, sometimes, not always. And there are no guarantees. But the notion "If I'm happy the kids will be happiest" is just not necessarily true.


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## 6301

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says if I divorce i would break up the family, will be so hard on the kids, etc, etc....and that she doesnt want to lose me, she has always loved me but that she thought i had changed and was taking her for grantet and didnt want her anymore.
> 
> she took a few days because she says she wasnt sure if I was going to change, she said I had stopped caring for so long she was doubtful I was going to change and she needed some time to see that (yea right, she was in the fog thats all)
> 
> the only thing I go back and forth is that I still love her and love my family together.....but then i go back to how could someone betray me like this, so hard to cope with.....


 She should have thought about breaking up the family when she decided to have an affair. Have you told her that yet?

I really feel bad for you because she might be remorseful an
d you know her better than we do but it sounds like she putting you on a real guilt trip and that isn't fair.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who step out of their marriage see so many red flags waving in front of them prior to going past the point of no return and they don't realize it until after they cross the finish line.

Then after the damage is done and they see the look of anguish and betrayal on their spouses face do they finally realize the amount of damage they have done to the spouse and the family.

If there was a problem in the marriage, then were all born with a mouth, tongue and a brain and the idea is to use it to communicate with your partner.

They say that they made a mistake but when you see so many warning signs in front of you and just push them aside then is isn't a mistake but a calculated risk with bad intentions and hope that you don't get caught.

Friend, if your not happy, then you need to be and you do whats best for you. The kids know who their dad is and they wont forget you or be angry at you for something you didn't do. Good Luck.


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## nickgtg

Wazza said:


> I've lived it too. Any one of us who has been betrayed has had a spouse who lies and can't be trusted.
> 
> But you are not living your kids experience. You are living yours. And there is a lot of research suggesting that your kids will experience all sorts of impacts based on your decision, from lesser academic performance to increased risk of drug abuse and criminal behaviour.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you should have stayed, I don't know your specific circumstances. Trust can be rebuilt, sometimes, not always. And there are no guarantees. But the notion "If I'm happy the kids will be happiest" is just not necessarily true.


Believe me Wazza, I'm happy that for you everything worked out. My kids know the struggle I went through last year, and it affected them seeing me sad and upset all the time.

I too believed in my vows, and I did all I could to try and save my marriage. A marriage has to have both wanting it to work however, not just one, so sadly I ended it with her.

Both of my daughters have told me that "mommy doesn't deserve you." 

I wish I could have saved my marriage but it wasn't meant to be.

Sorry to high jack this thread.


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## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> for example one thing is when I try to tell her that for what she has done I could easily divorce her and leave...but then she tells me thats the easy way out and that strong couples and in love as we are stick it out and work thru things....then am like WTF?? you were going to dump our marriage for some effing loser!!!
> then she tells me that she knows how wrong she was and how thats the worst thing she has ever done in her life and that i shouldnt fix a wrong with another wrong.....so in the end i feel like i failed to make my point across.


Your wife doesn’t get it because she doesn’t want to. If someone told you that your life was over if 2 + 2 = 4 you would never admit that was the correct answer. No matter what facts you give your wife, her answer will always be that you should stay with her.

Her plan “A” blew up forever when the OM went to jail. Now you are the only life jacket in an empty ocean. 

Even if you eventually wind up staying with her, you need to make some things clear to her now. Your marriage has changed forever and will never go back to the way it was before. She has given you a reason to never trust her again.

R will take a lot of blood sweat and tears from both of you. Hopefully it will get better but it never will be the same. You might trigger decades from now.

What she is doing now is trying to shut you up and put it past her. As time passes she will say “that was so long ago and I thought you forgave me.” Let her know now that you will always have the right to bring it up.


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## CantBelieveThis

i know she is very remorseful, i have no doubts on this living with her everyday....but she is worried that I might leave because I told her _"it was your choice to cheat behind my back, so I can choose to leave the marriage whenever i want in the future because of your infidelity"_ so this has her worried that i am thinking of leaving her and what that will mean to the family and her life...am the bread winner 4 times over, she cant make it on her own...but she is also a very good mother, kids love her and with my job they are closer to her than me.

She has told me point blank she is terrified of being divorced and on her own and she knows how stupid she was not thinking about that when she cheated, she tells me she was so dumb for wanting to leave me because I didnt pay attention to her and her worse mistake was not opening up to me about this fully, and how stupid of her it was not to think thru all the life consequences....she has told me she never stopped loving me, but was so mad i was ignoring her that she lost her boundaries and told this guy she wasnt happily married and her mistake was sharing her frustrations with him and exposing herself like that made her weak......

so her fear of being alone is making her do all she can not to lose me, and hence giving me sort of a guilt trip for wanting to divorce...i have called her out on this and she says she isnt trying to give me a guilt trip, just wants us to work on it longer and she has also told me to tell her anything i want her to do and she will do it, she is open to anything I want her to do.....

here is the deal, am not a manipulative guy...I dont want to force her to do anything.....i dont want someone with me because am forcing them to out of fear....I have told her I only want her with me for one thing, love....not the kids or the house or the way of life....and she tells me it is love why she is here....

like i said on my earlier posts she is doing a lot, has read books, we have gone to MC (not too helpful....need better counselor)
she is constantly spending every free second wanting to be with me, etc.....am the one that feels ambivalent, and swinging back between staying or leaving.....i just hate to make a decision to leave and regret it later because I didnt wait long enough....


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says if I divorce i would break up the family, will be so hard on the kids, etc, etc....and that she doesnt want to lose me, she has always loved me but that she thought i had changed and was taking her for grantet and didnt want her anymore.
> 
> she took a few days because she says she wasnt sure if I was going to change, she said I had stopped caring for so long she was doubtful I was going to change and she needed some time to see that (yea right, she was in the fog thats all)
> 
> the only thing I go back and forth is that I still love her and love my family together.....but then i go back to how could someone betray me like this, so hard to cope with.....


It is a very bad sign that she blames you. R is not possible as long as she does. You are wasting your time.

The reason it took two days is she had to see what OM wanted to do. My guess he knew he was going to jail so he could not have her move in.

You are plan B and she does not have another plan A.


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## CantBelieveThis

just today she asked me if I was happy and i told her no, no one is happy after being cheated....then she broke down crying a lot...i asked her why she was crying.....she said _"I was a fool thinking i was doing the right things and making you happier, am davastated you are not happy and its because of me, i ruined us and have forever tainted our marriage"_

i didnt rub it on, not my type to do that, but I did tell her it will be a while before am totally happy....I told her that sharing time with her does bring happiness but in general am sad and depressed still.....she begged me again to stay, asked me to tell her anything i want her to do, she told me sometimes she doesnt know what to do and feels like she doesnt know how much she is helping or not helping.....


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## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> You are plan B and she does not have another plan A.


arent we all BS plan B thou? she swares it was never a "leave me for him deal" that she was planning to leave me irregardless because she couldnt take it anymore being taken for granted.....


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## Graywolf2

OP, how old are your kids and how long have you been married?


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## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> OP, how old are your kids and how long have you been married?


7, 9 and 14....married for 16 years...together for 19.....


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## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> Can I make a suggestion?
> 
> Why not go for counseling?
> 
> You still love her. Even after her betrayal. A good counselor can help her with her issues while helping you deal with her betrayal.
> 
> A good counselor can help you determine if she is worth reconciling with.
> 
> You said your wife is remorseful. You said she is trying. Well if she really wants you and to keep the marriage together she will do what it takes to work on her issues and help you form a strong marriage again.
> 
> Counseling is one way of doing this.
> 
> If you get the right counselor your decision will be easier knowing if you can reconcile or not. It will help you determine if you can forgive your wife. If she is worthy of your forgiveness.
> 
> It will also give you time for your emotions to settle.
> 
> If your wife was not remorseful I would agree with the others to proceed with Divorce.
> 
> But if your wife is working at repairing the marriage and you love her and miss her when away then a consequence she should deal with is professional counseling.
> 
> That should give her some attention she was lacking.
> 
> HM



There are many counseling nightmares here. When you see a counselor trust your gut there too. If its a good fit you will know it. Its also a good idea for the betrayed spouse to get ptsd treatment.


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## happyman64

CBT

Find a different marriage counselor.

One that has experience with infidelity.

And take your time with any major decisions.

You owe that to yourself.

HM


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## Graywolf2

It might be interesting to see her reaction if you said that you were going to DNA test the kids. Even if you’re 100% sure they are yours, it would still be interesting.


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> arent we all BS plan B thou? she swares it was never a "leave me for him deal" that she was planning to leave me irregardless because she couldnt take it anymore being taken for granted.....


That is her affair justification. For women, you must be bad for her to cheat.

Not all BS are plan B. If the WS ends right aware or confesses then you have a better chance.


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## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> That is her affair justification. For women, you must be bad for her to cheat.
> 
> Not all BS are plan B. If the WS ends right aware or confesses then you have a better chance.


so are you saying i should reconsider her reasoning for infidelity? a week previous to her affair i did catch emails between her and her female friend complaining how unhappy she was with me....so i have some reason to believe it had to do with that...she told me from day one she wasnt looking for an affair, she was just angry and vulnerable

is it always a lost cause when they are caught instead of confessing?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> It might be interesting to see her reaction if you said that you were going to DNA test the kids. Even if you’re 100% sure they are yours, it would still be interesting.


i will do this....i have no reason to doubt but i think the point of her reaction is a good one....


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> I am the bread winner 4 times over, she can’t make it on her own.
> 
> She also says her plan was never to leave me for him but instead she couldn’t keep living with me ignoring her.


How was she planning to make it on her own?

How did you catch her?


----------



## Chaparral

Graywolf2 said:


> It might be interesting to see her reaction if you said that you were going to DNA test the kids. Even if you’re 100% sure they are yours, it would still be interesting.


I think the big thing here is time. I am not nearly as dubious as some of the others about her motives.

It will take time to make things right. Reconcilliation isn't measured in months. Look at it this way, even if you don't make it, for now you're living full time with your kids.

Look through the threads here, you will see many that would give anything to have a remorseful wife.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> How was she planning to make it on her own?
> 
> How did you catch her?


she admits she didnt think it thru, that she thought she could do it alone with help of her parents, but never looked at it in enough detail, that she was blinded and determined to do something about her life as miserable as she was.....pretty wreckless if you ask me.

i caught the text messages between them....


----------



## just got it 55

CBT It's all on your timeline

55


----------



## CantBelieveThis

i cant stand the thought of another man parenting my kids, and neither of having to see her with another man since i can never totally detach from her, so effing torn


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, truly remorseful wayward spouses are under a lot of pressure too. We have almost lost several and at least one didn't make it in the last year.


----------



## cbnero

CantBelieveThis said:


> i cant stand the thought of another man parenting my kids, and neither of having to see her with another man since i can never totally detach from her, so effing torn


Same boat, kids 3 and 6. Look at it this way: you cant control her, only yourself. If she wants to make dumb decisions, let her. Deep down she knows they are wrong. She needs to find bottom on her own. Dont let her take you both down.

As far as it goes: the person you knew is gone. Non existent. Satan has her and so if you see her with someone else look at her as a complete stranger to you. Because she is.

And as far as the kids go: look at it like school. They are away from you and your control much of the time. Now when you have them is your chance and responsibility to raise them correct. Take every advantage of doing so. Kids will see things much simpler than us and believe me they can see thru someone's bullcrap soon enough.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> i cant stand the thought of another man parenting my kids, and neither of having to see her with another man since i can never totally detach from her, so effing torn





Chaparral said:


> Look through the threads here, you will see many that would give anything to have a remorseful wife.


:iagree::iagree:


There is nothing wrong with R and at least you have a chance with a remorseful wife.


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> so are you saying i should reconsider her reasoning for infidelity? a week previous to her affair i did catch emails between her and her female friend complaining how unhappy she was with me....so i have some reason to believe it had to do with that...she told me from day one she wasnt looking for an affair, she was just angry and vulnerable
> 
> is it always a lost cause when they are caught instead of confessing?


She had the affair because she wanted to. Period. 

There is something deeper in her that caused the affair. If this is not found she will cheat again.

There will be another time she will be angry and unhappy. Welcome to life.

It is not a lost cause but her reaction to being caught is the bigger concern.


----------



## jim123

She wanted to have the affair. Her unhappiness with you was the justification. Her telling the OM was her way of connecting with him.

For her to cheat, you had to be bad and the M had to be bad. 

Her email to her friend was her justifying to herself what she was doing.

So she is telling you that in two days all of a sudden you changed and all was good.

OM turned her down and now is not even an option.


----------



## larry.gray

CantBelieveThis said:


> then she tells me that she knows how wrong she was and how thats the worst thing she has ever done in her life and that i shouldnt fix a wrong with another wrong.....so in the end i feel like i failed to make my point across....that she violated our marriage vows completely and for that alone its my choice to leave if I want to and she cant blame me for that.....


Call her on that - her feeling that isn't OK.

She needs to feel that staying with her is a _gift_. Any attempt in guilting you into staying makes you think she doesn't see it as a gift. Let her know that if you divorce, it is over her affair. That if the kids have a broken home, it is over her affair. If she doesn't change her tune, then it increases the odds of that coming to pass.


----------



## jim123

larry.gray said:


> Call her on that - her feeling that isn't OK.
> 
> She needs to feel that staying with her is a _gift_. Any attempt in guilting you into staying makes you think she doesn't see it as a gift. Let her know that if you divorce, it is over her affair. That if the kids have a broken home, it is over her affair. If she doesn't change her tune, then it increases the odds of that coming to pass.


Exactly. If she can justify the A in any way, true R is not possible. A new plan A will come along. 

There are millions of ways to justify an A. There will be another reason. As a nurse, she will have stress plus opportunity.


----------



## Anuvia

CantBelieveThis said:


> for example one thing is when I try to tell her that for what she has done I could easily divorce her and leave...but then she tells me thats the easy way out and that strong couples and in love as we are stick it out and work thru things....then am like WTF?? you were going to dump our marriage for some effing loser!!!
> then she tells me that she knows how wrong she was and how thats the worst thing she has ever done in her life and that i shouldnt fix a wrong with another wrong.....so in the end i feel like i failed to make my point across....that she violated our marriage vows completely and for that alone its my choice to leave if I want to and she cant blame me for that.....


Your wife is playing you for a sucker and you're falling for it.


----------



## Wazza

CantBelieveThis said:


> so are you saying i should reconsider her reasoning for infidelity? a week previous to her affair i did catch emails between her and her female friend complaining how unhappy she was with me....so i have some reason to believe it had to do with that...she told me from day one she wasnt looking for an affair, she was just angry and vulnerable
> 
> is it always a lost cause when they are caught instead of confessing?


My wife was caught instead of confessing, and even when caught it took a while to stop. And she said some really nasty things about me to friends. Most of which was nonsense.

24 years later we are together and better than ever.

Examine her criticisms. Are they true? Are they faults or just differences? Work on them if you need to, but don't take it to heart. 

Be prepared to lose her if necessary. Believe in yourself. Her affair is her failing. You just need to decide whether it's normal self or an aberration. And if an aberration, how did it happen and how can you avoid a repeat?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> So she is telling you that in two days all of a sudden you changed and all was good.


i havent explained everything in the right detail, 

it took her two days after dday to decide to give our marriage a chance at all, the deal then was we were going to try it for 90-days to see if I really changed....I made my changes (which were easy enough, just payed more attention to her) and her and OM broke it off NC....

In about 2 weeks she told me she wanted in full into the marriage recovery, no 90 day deadline anymore, this is when she started feeling remorseful

In about a month is when we found out OM was going to jail....this made her very upset for she saw the terrible mistake she made and became even more remorseful (she saw her true f up in bright light)


----------



## happyman64

CantBelieveThis said:


> i havent explained everything in the right detail,
> 
> it took her two days after dday to decide to give our marriage a chance at all, the deal then was we were going to try it for 90-days to see if I really changed....I made my changes (which were easy enough, just payed more attention to her) and her and OM broke it off NC....
> 
> In about 2 weeks she told me she wanted in full into the marriage recovery, no 90 day deadline anymore, this is when she started feeling remorseful
> 
> In about a month is when we found out OM was going to jail....this made her very upset for she saw the terrible mistake she made and became even more remorseful (she saw her true f up in bright light)


She knew she made a mistake early on in your recovery.

The oM going to jail just reinforced what a loser she picked to cheat with and how horrible her decision making processes have been in all her decisions.

When women cheat out of anger or frustration, all solid reasoning goes out the window.

We have seen this many times on TAM.

Chap is right. Use all the time you need to get your emotions even.

There is nothing wrong with still loving your wife. And IMO some waywards are truly remorseful. They are not only crushed by the hurt they put their spouses through but they are absolutely crushed by their horrible choices they made.

It this type of remorseful wayward that can come back and be a better spouse and parent.

But they need strong boundaries put in place.

You cannot also keep rubbing the affair in their faces 24x7.

If they improve you have to recognize it and encourage them to keep working at it.

To sum it up it takes two to repair the relationship. And it does not happen in a year or less.

More often it takes years.

HM


----------



## Lovemytruck

CantBelieveThis,

My limbo was similar. I had a decent relationship post D-day. 8 months to think about it until I decided to end it.

I agree with most of the previous posts. It seems that the important thing now is you. Here is another angle to think about. Why are you asking these questions now? Are you finally coming to terms with life after a D? Are you realizing that a D will give you a new chance to find a better woman?

I did the same thing. It seems we come to a realization that it was unfair, you didn't deserve a cheating wife, and that you want to start fresh with a person whom you can trust.

What are your closest family/friends saying to you? Can they offer you a fair assessment of your situation?

The D is a way to move into a new direction. It would be interesting to see if she actually would still work on herself and be fair to you knowing that she caused it. A sh!t test of sorts. The D would also allow you time to re-establish yourself as an individual. It helps you focus on things other than the betrayal. It helps you find new interests, people, and evaluate yourself without the deep hurt.

If she is still there in a year or two, you could always start over. If not, you will know that there are other things are more worthwhile for you.

Odds are you will meet somebody else, and enjoy a new type of person in your life.


----------



## Lovemytruck

CantBelieveThis said:


> i havent explained everything in the right detail,
> 
> it took *her two days after dday to decide* to give our marriage a chance at all, the deal then was we were going to try it for 90-days *to see if I really changed*....I made my changes (which were easy enough, just payed more attention to her) and her and OM broke it off NC....
> 
> In about 2 weeks *she told me she wanted in full into the marriage recovery*, no 90 day deadline anymore, this is when *she started feeling remorseful*
> 
> In about a month is when we found out OM was going to jail....*this made her very upset *for she saw the terrible mistake she made and became even more remorseful (she saw her true f up in bright light)


Just bolding the things that she controls in your post. It is clear from your choice of words that you have given her the power in making the R about her. Your other posts read much the same way.

Is your subconscious mind wanting you to end it to avoid letting it be about her? I would guess that you are mostly experiencing GUILT about wanting a D at this point. You have rescued her from herself. The battle is over. If YOU need a break from the pain, YOU deserve it. Saving people from themselves is not required.

If I am of base, please disregard. It is about YOU and what YOU need from this point forward. She was great with the idea of ditching you when she thought she could. Your loyalty is beyond her capacity to understand.

Just do what is best for YOU. Hope you heal and feel better soon.


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> it took her two days after dday to decide to give our marriage a chance at all, *the deal then was we were going to try it for 90-days to see if I really changed*....I made my changes (which were easy enough, just payed more attention to her) and her and OM broke it off NC....


I’m confused. You found some texts and that was D day. You confronted her. Two days after that she agreed to give you 90 days to change? 

Did she have to change too of was her change just NC the OM?


----------



## warlock07

CantBelieveThis said:


> exactly...i tell her the same thing and she just tells me she was very wrong and I shouldnt fix a wrong with a wrong (me leaving the marriage)....she tells me what she did was despicable and all the bad things and that she will never be able to make it up to me, etc, etc but i feel she uses this to make my leaving as wrong.....she also says her plan was never to leave me for him but instead she couldnt keep living with me ignoring her so yes she admits she took a very wrong way about addressing her needs....we go back and forth over this and i feel i dont get anywhere.....
> 
> they kind of both agreed to end the affair couple days after i found out, though it wasnt until almost 3 weeks later that she found out he was out on bond and was going to jail (which she was pissed that he didnt tell her about)....hell the guy sent "me" the NC letter himself!! so i dont think he is going to want to come back to her after 5 years when he gets out


So she got dumped?? I have a feeling that you know half truths about her affair. And she is being very manipulative


----------



## warlock07

Read the rest of the thread. OP is totally guilt-tripped terrible. Her excuses are just that - excuses. 

His wife cheated because she knew at some level she could manipulate him back if things don't work out with her lover. No wonder his gut won't allow him to trust her. 

How did she meet her OM ?


----------



## Clay2013

I think there are several things that make be believe you probably should leave. She cheated and never told you about it. You had to discover it yourself. The way she reacted to the news of him going to jail should be your wake up call. If he was still around you would not be in the picture. She is trying to make you take the blame for breaking up the family if you leave. 

She is not showing you genuine remorse. Some one that was genuine would have told you and ended it themselves. (Read Tears Thread) 

Her reaction to the news of the OM going to jail shows she had deep feelings for him. 

Making you feel guilty for the damage she has caused. This is just exactly what mine did all the years I was together with her. 
If she really loved you she would honor what ever decision you made and she would OWN her mistake to its entirety. 

The truth is she is not in love with you she just is feeling bad she almost lost her life. She does not want to be alone. 

You might actually feel the same way but I can tell you I did divorce mine sure it was under duress but I made it through it. I did get custody of my kids. I am grateful I found this site now but I did this with no support from family or friends. My life is so much better and I have learned to trust and love someone again just as you will. 

I am really sorry you are going through this and I wished it really would not happen to anyone but sadly it does. Now its up to you to live your life and be the best dad you can be for your kids. 

Clay


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Lovemytruck said:


> Why are you asking these questions now? Are you finally coming to terms with life after a D? Are you realizing that a D will give you a new chance to find a better woman?


because like i have said, my feelings are all over about staying or leaving....that simple, nothing to do with realizing anything about life after D, i am fine living on my own...is the kids i desire to have their bio mother and father together...oh, and I love her still, but can let her go, will hurt bad, but i could



Lovemytruck said:


> What are your closest family/friends saying to you? Can they offer you a fair assessment of your situation?


my best friend says to stay married, he just went thru a divorce (non-infidelity related) and he advice is best to stay for the kids and plus will be financially wrecked as well from the D

her parents have said nothing, they took attitude of not taking any sides and they simply said is our problem to work out between us...my parents dont know, too old and frail for that


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m confused. You found some texts and that was D day. You confronted her. Two days after that she agreed to give you 90 days to change?
> 
> Did she have to change too of was her change just NC the OM?


correct....yea her change was to stop cheating totally


----------



## Lovemytruck

warlock07 said:


> Read the rest of the thread. OP is totally guilt-tripped terrible. Her excuses are just that - excuses.
> 
> His wife cheated because she knew at some level she could manipulate him back if things don't work out with her lover. No wonder his gut won't allow him to trust her.


:iagree:

This stuff sucks. The quote above summarizes my thoughts very well.

OP, 

It is time to stand in front of your mirror. Why are you seeking an answer to your question? I think we both know you are ready to pick a new path. Your guilt will go away as you begin to look ahead. The hard part is making sure your kids are secure.

I did a little each day. It started with saving some money in a new account. Get some legal advice or knowledge. Find some trusted family or friends to help you adjust. It is scary, but people survive it everyday. Talk to people in your circle that have gone through it, so you understand what it will be like.

In the end you will survive. It is not easy, but after the trauma you have endured, it won't feel all that bad. Be good to yourself if you backslide or make mistakes.

After the dust settles, go have some fun!!! Get your head together and learn to enjoy new people, places, and things. You might end up much better in the long run. I did.


----------



## Lovemytruck

I just posted this prior to reading your last post. Delete it if it doesn't apply.


----------



## LongWalk

In retrospect it bothers you that she still had to think about things after Dday. You were still on trial. She wasn't certain she was going to keep you. This is understandable. She was in love with the OM and the end of the affair was a pivotal moment. She did not stay undecided for very long by TAM standards.

Part of the problem is that you wonder if she is doing it for love or you or fear of being a loser dumped cheater with too many kids to attract a good alpha dude. She is right. If she starts dating she would have to screen all the divorced men chasing tail. Someone who just divorced may not want to be step dad to teens. Lot of work. So your wife is realistic. That is not a bad character trait, provided she is not cynical.

Listen to Happyman. He is a top advisor in my book. He give dispassionate, considerate advice.

I have some good news for you: you will make it whatever your decision. The key is to make the decision for yourself. You put the oxygen mask on. Then on your kids. Then on your wife.

Are you in shape? If not, hit the gym. Getting hard physical exercise will improve your brain chemistry. You need that endorphine buzz. Get involved in your kids sports. What do they play? Be happy and confident as if you are going to make it. Don't talk to your wife about the affair as often. Save your pain for MC.

If your wife is giving you good sex, don't refuse. There are many men on TAM who are in sexless marriage for years. You can ask your wife to be more adventurous in bed now. You should of course not abuse her, but can be alpha in bed.

If in a year's time you have fallen out of love with your wife, you can still divorce her.

Put the OM up on Cheaterville (without reference to your wife) if you want to give him a kick.

From the way you describe your wife being remorseful you sound confident that you can read her. She is not concealing a great deal, do you agree?

Is she working on improving herself in IC? How?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

so much good feedback, i feel bad not specifically answering it all, i love TAM for this...i should have joined so much sooner

the thing of it is, I find it hard to just ignore all the effort she has put on for the past 9 months or so....I mean she has been loving all over me, apologizing, crying, begging, we have sex at least once a day, many times twice a day....I find it hard to believe she is faking all that just to save her own @ss....i seriously doubt she is faking it.

she has lived very comfortably with me, never had to work, went to school for nursing on her own desire to go back to work and I paid for it all, she has always driven a luxury car never older than a couple years and 3 years ago i spent 40k on a mommy makeover for her (boob job, tummy tuck, arm lipo and some facial stuff). She is incredibly good looking and has an amazing body, guys have always hit on her and always ask her if she is a model and what not....so i feel like i have invested a lot in her in many different ways and i would be giving that away to another man....just hard to come to grip with that part also, but this is also the same reason why the betrayal hurts so damn much....she had it all and look what she did and what a loser she picked....unbelievable 

I do believe this was a one time thing for her, she has never been like this ever so part of me wants to forgive her but the anger and disappointment hasnt gone down a whole lot over the past few months.... 

bah, i feel like am rambling nonsense to you guys now....fvck me....this sucks


----------



## warlock07

She could be scared of the unknown. You are a known entity that provides and she had her fling.

How do you think she would react to you asking to level the playing field? How do you think she would react to it?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

warlock07 said:


> How do you think she would react to you asking to level the playing field? How do you think she would react to it?


she says she would understand but would be hurt very bad because she would feel i did it out of revenge, and says the same quote again, "dont fix a wrong with a wrong" (tired of hearing that)


----------



## Acabado

Every time a BS is having a hard time getting past (through) infidelity almost always people imagine the wayward is failing short and asks the BS to enforce the boundaires... and what not.
Sometimes happens the wayward is doing everything you could ask and more, sometimes they are genuinely remorseful.

It happens this sh1t is not easy. That's all.

Hang in there man. I get you.


----------



## Clay2013

Sounds like your the one doing all the investing? How is she investing in you aside of sex and being with you? What does she have to loose is you walked out and cheated on her? 

If you stay with her I would make her sign a post-nup. I would write in there if the divorce is triggered over her cheating again she gets nothing. If she says ok then you might be right and she really loves you. If she wont do it you have your answer. 


Clay


----------



## Lovemytruck

Warlock made a good point. You do realize that her sense of fairness is heavily skewed in her favor?

She has counted on two things;

1. you would not find out
2. you would not D her if you did find out.

Now she is using your guilt against you. It is a shame to see a bad woman manipulate a very decent man. Your fear and guilt are holding you hostage.

Have you read some of the LONG threads of BHs suffering through endless limbo? Don't let yourself become one of those that suffer tirelessly. Life is too short.

Wow! I am finding my advice to be very pro-D lately. Good luck!


----------



## DoktorFun

Clay2013 said:


> Sounds like your the one doing all the investing? How is she investing in you aside of sex and being with you? What does she have to loose is you walked out and cheated on her?
> 
> *If you stay with her I would make her sign a post-nup. I would write in there if the divorce is triggered over her cheating again she gets nothing. If she says ok then you might be right and she really loves you. If she wont do it you have your answer. *
> 
> 
> Clay


^*This!* :iagree:


----------



## weightlifter

Im also logistics guy. Could I ask the following. Its just data points. Nothing too sex specific.
approximately:
Approx ages / length marriage/ # of kids
First innocent meet date
First innappropriate texting/ email date
First outright sexual texting/ email date
First kissing/fondling date
First non vaginal sex date (oral/ manual)
First vaginal sex date
Last sex date
Sex times (after school, on supposed GNOs, lunch breaks.)
Approx number of hookups
Hookup locations
Communications method
Red flags you ignored thinking she would never...
First red flag that told you something is very very wrong.
Did you have a weak failed early confront? If yes how bad did she shut you down?
How did you find out for sure there was an affair?
Were toxic friends cooperating/ helping affair?
OM is a (i know he is a POS. I mean something like "fellow student former truck driver attending same class)
Did OM use known player methodologies? Was he the pursuer or pursued?
Did she give sex acts she denied you? (Just y/n is fine)


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CantBelieveThis said:


> *i spent 40k on a mommy makeover for her (boob job, tummy tuck, arm lipo and some facial stuff). *She is incredibly good looking and has an amazing body, guys have always hit on her and always ask her if she is a model and what not....so i feel like i have invested a lot in her in many different ways and i would be giving that away to another.


So you spend 40k on her plastic surgey and a few years later she starts cheating on you(on a regular basis) with a "bad boy'.

You can stay if you want, but how long before you think it happens again. Five, ten years...

The next time it happens it probably won't *because* she's getiing hit on all the time. It'll because she's getting older and *doesn't* get hit on.


It's been 10 months and you're still torn between D and R. You won't be able to go on like this for much longer. I normally do not agree with seporating while trying to R, but in your case I have to wonder if a month away could help you clear you head a little and decide what YOU really want.

Not your kids, bot your WS, what YOU want.


----------



## adriana

Clay2013 said:


> If you stay with her I would make her sign a post-nup. I would write in there if the divorce is triggered over her cheating again she gets nothing. If she says ok then you might be right and she really loves you. If she wont do it you have your answer.


This is a very popular concept around here but, in the real world, even a mediocre lawyer would have absolutely no problem with having it thrown out as being "grossly unfair".


----------



## Philat

CantBelieveThis said:


> correct....yea her change was to stop cheating totally


This doesn't cut it for me--you made substantive changes in yourself for the sake of the marriage, and her reciprocation was to stop cheating... Not really an equitable exchange. Maybe you're having a hard time going all in for R because you're not seeing substantive changes in her that make you confident it won't happen again--expressions of sorrow on her part are necessary and good, but maybe not enough for you to be sure that she will erect and enforce proper boundaries in future.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

CantBelieveThis said:


> just today she asked me if I was happy and i told her no, no one is happy after being cheated....then she broke down crying a lot...i asked her why she was crying.....she said _"I was a fool thinking i was doing the right things and making you happier, am davastated you are not happy and its because of me, i ruined us and have forever tainted our marriage"_
> 
> i didnt rub it on, not my type to do that, but I did tell her it will be a while before am totally happy....I told her that sharing time with her does bring happiness but in general am sad and depressed still.....she begged me again to stay, asked me to tell her anything i want her to do, she told me sometimes she doesnt know what to do and feels like she doesnt know how much she is helping or not helping.....


she did forever taint your marriage. You may not ever be able to love her the way you did before, even if you guys stay together for the rest of your lives. you might be able to 'love her enough' though, however one defines that.

What would be so bad about you living somewhere else for 6-8 months? Unless you have family nearby it would amount to additional expenses, but it might be worth it. it might be easier for you to get your thoughts together on what you really want to do if you're not around her as much. doesn't mean you wouldn't spend time with your kids of course, just not spending nearly as much time with her. as you ponder what happened, realize that there are plently of married that are out and about working, doing things and meeting people and they DO NOT CHEAT on their husbands. You need time to think about all this, time away from her, I think.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

if I leave she would have to quit her job....i work from home so when she has her 12-hr shifts I look after the kids at home after school, run them to sports, etc.....there is no one to do that if am not around and her parents and rest of family lives 60 miles away. believe me I have thought long and hard over leaving for some time....it will affect the kids one way or another....just sucks

and yes, she was cheating on me while i was sitting home working & takin care of the kiddos and running them around....


----------



## Chaparral

Boob jobs, tummy tucks/operations affect the sex rank of women. The number that have affairs and/or get divorces after it is shocking. 

Google sex rank and see how you measure up. What kind of shape are you in. The work she had done will make men more aggresive in flirting/persuing her. Its hard for women not to have their head turned by all this.

Did she have all those complaints about you before she had the work done?

Btw, nurses are in the very top professions to cheat.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

CantBelieveThis said:


> so much good feedback, i feel bad not specifically answering it all, i love TAM for this...i should have joined so much sooner
> 
> the thing of it is, I find it hard to just ignore all the effort she has put on for the past 9 months or so....I mean she has been loving all over me, apologizing, crying, begging, we have sex at least once a day, many times twice a day....I find it hard to believe she is faking all that just to save her own @ss....i seriously doubt she is faking it.
> 
> she has lived very comfortably with me, never had to work, went to school for nursing on her own desire to go back to work and I paid for it all, she has always driven a luxury car never older than a couple years and 3 years ago i spent 40k on a mommy makeover for her (boob job, tummy tuck, arm lipo and some facial stuff). She is incredibly good looking and has an amazing body, guys have always hit on her and always ask her if she is a model and what not....so i feel like i have invested a lot in her in many different ways and i would be giving that away to another man....just hard to come to grip with that part also, but this is also the same reason why the betrayal hurts so damn much....she had it all and look what she did and what a loser she picked....unbelievable
> 
> I do believe this was a one time thing for her, she has never been like this ever so part of me wants to forgive her but the anger and disappointment hasnt gone down a whole lot over the past few months....
> 
> bah, i feel like am rambling nonsense to you guys now....fvck me....this sucks


but I think you're also describing a person that has a higher likelihood of cheating again. does she like being hit on all the time?


----------



## Lovemytruck

CantBelieveThis said:


> if I leave she would have to quit her job....i work from home so when she has her 12-hr shifts I look after the kids at home after school, run them to sports, etc.....there is no one to do that if am not around and her parents and rest of family lives 60 miles away. believe me I have thought long and hard over leaving for some time....it will affect the kids one way or another....just sucks
> 
> and yes, she was cheating on me while i was sitting home working & takin care of the kiddos and running them around....


Sounds like a echo of my former life. I was the responsible one that did all of the housework while my exWW (nurse) had her romps.

You helped us understand it better with this post. Your game cost you. You became undervalued sexually because she perceived herself as "superior" in her sexual value.

It will continue to eat your soul if you attempt to stay in your hole with her. Your shattered ego needs to be refueled by someone else.

Don't have a revenge affair, but I would say get your game back. Up your value. Chaparral said it.

I honestly don't know that you can swallow this one. You have had several (10?) months to ponder, and you are now realizing it is over. IMO.

Whew! I feel brutal by telling you this, but I feel like I walked in your shoes. Consider it. Where has your patience and being good got you? I feel like I am really pushing you for a D. I have not felt like you have given us any valid reasons to stay in this one.

I respect you decision, and will try to bow out now. Best wishes.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

CantBelieveThis said:


> if I leave she would have to quit her job....i work from home so when she has her 12-hr shifts I look after the kids at home after school, run them to sports, etc.....there is no one to do that if am not around and her parents and rest of family lives 60 miles away. believe me I have thought long and hard over leaving for some time....it will affect the kids one way or another....just sucks
> 
> and yes, she was cheating on me while i was sitting home working & takin care of the kiddos and running them around....


but consider you might not necesarily move very far away. then being able to do all the afterschool stuff etc out of the 2nd residence. you wouldn't want to be too far away anyway, becasue you'd want to be able to spend time with your kids.
anyway just a thought. i don't see how a BS can think clearly about what they want when they continue to live with, and even sleep with the WS.


----------



## Clay2013

adriana said:


> This is a very popular concept around here but, in the real world, even a mediocre lawyer would have absolutely no problem with having it thrown out as being "grossly unfair".


You might be right. I never used this with my xW.


Clay


----------



## 6301

CantBelieveThis said:


> correct....yea her change was to stop cheating totally


 That ain't no deal! First and foremost she shouldn't be cheating and to use that as her way of contributing to the marriage to make it better is flat out total bull $hit and if you don't know that by now then your get what you deserve. 

When she told you that you should have got about a inch from her face and told her that if that's the best she can do then get the hell out and stay out. 

You got NOTHING. ZERO. NADA. ZIP. ZERO from her except that she says she'll stop cheating which she isn't part of being married. If I were you I would go back to my old habits that pissed her off to begin with and then let her know that if she doesn't like it then she can go visit her new man at the state pen and stick her ass between the bars for him. 

Time for you to think real about if this is worth it.


----------



## 6301

CantBelieveThis said:


> she has lived very comfortably with me, never had to work, went to school for nursing on her own desire to go back to work and I paid for it all, she has always driven a luxury car never older than a couple years and 3 years ago i spent 40k on a mommy makeover for her (boob job, tummy tuck, arm lipo and some facial stuff). She is incredibly good looking and has an amazing body, guys have always hit on her and always ask her if she is a model and what not....so i feel like i have invested a lot in her in many different ways and i would be giving that away to another man....just hard to come to grip with that part also, but this is also the same reason why the betrayal hurts so damn much....she had it all and look what she did and what a loser she picked....unbelievable


 Now you know why she's crying and groveling for another chance. If you throw her out she going to lose a real good life and a generous naive husband who let her get away with emotional murder. 

You can't get her face, belly or boobs back but if it was me, I would tell her to move out for maybe 6 months until you figure out what you want and let her get a taste of life in real time. 

Right now along with the fake boobs tummy tuck and lypo she's been living large on your dime and giving you nothing in return except a future ulcer.


----------



## warlock07

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says she would understand but would be hurt very bad because she would feel i did it out of revenge, and says the same quote again, "dont fix a wrong with a wrong" (tired of hearing that)


How convenient and hypocritical!!

Looks like she is in control of thee situation.

How did she meet the OM?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

IDK CBT... She sounds like a shallow Barbie doll with no empathy for anyone but herself. I don't think you've seriously took inventory of everything she's doing to make this up to (I know it's impossible, but the attempt still needs to be made). So, I see no cheating and sex. What else is she doing for you?


----------



## Graywolf2

My advice is cynical but here goes. Stay with your wife on a trial basis but hold part of yourself back. Then she can’t hurt you as much if there is a next time. 

It’s like loaning someone money who doesn’t pay you back. You can forgive them, like them but you will never loan them money again because they can’t be trusted. She can’t be trusted with your entire heart.

No matter how great things might get, always remind yourself that she is capable of cheating on you. That way you won’t be as devastated if it does.



CantBelieveThis said:


> I mean she has been loving all over me, apologizing, crying, begging, we have sex at least once a day, many times twice a day...i spent 40k on a mommy makeover for her (boob job, tummy tuck, arm lipo and some facial stuff). She is incredibly good looking and has an amazing body, guys have always hit on her and always ask her if she is a model and what not....so i feel like i have invested a lot in her in many different ways and i would be giving that away to another man.


Enjoy your kids and have lots of sex. Get a return for your investment. Just keep one foot out the door.

You might want to see a lawyer just to see if there are any smart moves you could make now for possible divorce in the future.



LongWalk said:


> If your wife is giving you good sex, don't refuse. You can ask your wife to be more adventurous in bed now. You should of course not abuse her, but can be alpha in bed.


Treat her like a little who*e. You both might enjoy it. 

Don’t get her pregnant. Condoms or get yourself fixed. You can donate to a sperm bank if you might want to have kids with someone else someday.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> My advice is cynical but here goes.


i like your approach Graywolf....in fact i like all the advice I have gotten from everyone, nothing better than getting so many different points of view on this f'd up and controversial topic

but i do like the idea of staying on a trial basis and keeping her on edge a bit, there wont be a next time because she knows am watching and i have access to all her passwords, emails, FB, cell phone, etc at all times, including GPS location too.....she event hints of any inappropriateness and well, you get the point

I have a 2 week business trip coming up and during this time I plan to tell her I will not be talking to her at all except emergencies or the kids, will see how she takes that but am not thinking on giving her any say on it, this will give me some time at least to think things thru for myself and what I want or not want from this marriage....

I have seen a lawyer at the beginning of all this mess and got an initial consult and things didnt look very appealing to me, child support, stupid lifetime alimony in FL (no-fault state), a financial disaster to say the least....but i will follow up with another visit to find other ways to divorce in the future and have things more lined up as best as possible

we had another chat last night, and this sticking point persists with her, she still refuses to accept that divorce can be an outcome of her infidelity, she says she doesnt want that on the table for our marriage....that we can work this thru because we love each other so much more now than even before and because we enjoy each other and have such a beautiful family....whatever...i ended up telling her "_are you stupid or something??_" and just walked the fvck away...she started with all her crying and what not.....

this morning she is a wreck, crying again, telling me how she is going to hell for all shes done, would kill herself if it werent for the kids, blah, blah.....told her we are going to have to go back to MC and find a good counselor because she wont get it thru her head that divorce IS a possibility


----------



## cbnero

Definitely have your attorney prepare everything now so you can have her served within a day if needed. To not do so would be extremely foolish. 

Is your wife in IC?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CantBelieveThis said:


> (Edited)
> *this morning she is a wreck, crying again, telling me how she is going to hell for all shes done*


If she tells you that she's going to hell again, respond with "Well I've been in hell since I found out what you did to me.".

I get the feeling that she thinks her brand of suffering is some how worse then yours. I know for a fact that it's not.

When you go on this trip, you should plant some VARs to get some real answers. What she says in front of you and what she says when you're not around are most likely two different things...


----------



## Chaparral

I don't find her arguing to save the marriage to be a bad thing. She is trying to save her family any way she can. Stay calm and cool and quit arguing with her. That's the manly thing that shows her you are in control. 
,

When she says something you disagree with point it out.

When she doing the right things, point that out too. Be very patient. Constantly threatening divorce is just self defeating.

Tell her once divorce isn't on the table if things do not get better. If she brings it up, simply say you have already told her how it is.

Not speaking to her on your trip is childish. Youare the rock, the strengh of your family. Show leadership.

Start by reading mmslp before you both screw this up.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I would plant VARS, then while on your trip, when you talk to her on the phone, tell her at some point when the subect comes up(and it will) that you have the feeling that she hasn't told you everything. Say that you're thinking about scheduling a polygraph after you are back.

I'd be very surprised if she doesn't call someone to talk about it. I say talk, because she must realize that you can probably get any text transcripts. Plus she is more likely to talk than type due to the nature of the topic.

If so, she'll be in damage control mode, again, and you'll have a clearer picture of what really happened and where she actually stands on you and your marriage.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Lots of sex doesn't equate to lots of love. You can get sex anywhere- FWB, club pickups, he!! you can even pay for it. Is that love? There is no remorse here CBT, only manipulation. If she really loves you, ask for a peaceful mutual D in your favor. D is like an apocalypse, you only think about yourself and nothing else. If she thinks about your benefit during D, that alone proves she loves you. And yes, Remarriage is always an option.


----------



## DoktorFun

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> If she tells you that she's going to hell again, respond with "Well I've been in hell since I found out what you did to me.".
> 
> I get the feeling that she thinks her brand of suffering is some how worse then yours. I know for a fact that it's not.
> 
> *When you go on this trip, you should plant some VARs to get some real answers. What she says in front of you and what she says when you're not around are most likely two different things...*



*^very important!* :iagree:


----------



## Pepper123

I would place some VARs as well... if you can trust her during such an extended absence, then it would likely provide you with significant peace of mind when moving forward with your R.


----------



## Lovemytruck

WhiteRaven said:


> Lots of sex doesn't equate to lots of love. You can get sex anywhere- FWB, club pickups, he!! you can even pay for it. Is that love? There is no remorse here CBT, only manipulation. If she really loves you, ask for a peaceful mutual D in your favor. D is like an apocalypse, you only think about yourself and nothing else. If she thinks about your benefit during D, that alone proves she loves you. And yes, Remarriage is always an option.


:iagree:

This brings us back to the early posts. File and give her a chance to work peacefully () through it. Then if she is a good girl for a long time, you might re-marry her.

You both know that she probably will not be worth it once you are on the free market again.

The issue was framed as "hard time dealing with limbo". Does more evidence or her compliance still factor into your decision? It sounded more like you were concerned with how you are dealing the decision internally. The reason I ask is that it ultimately is your decision. Her past can not be changed. It is you who picks the path.

A wise older MC told me that the best way to minimize her pain is to not give her false hopes. I agree.

It has been 10 months. No new evidence? You are still struggling? It is okay to admit to yourself and others that it was simply too much to deal with. I did that at 8 months. I am fine, and so were all of those involved. Change is required when our environment is altered. Adapt, migrate, or perish. Your "adapting" to the new reality is breaking down, that is why you finally posted on TAM. You don't need our permission to D. Do it because it is what YOU need to emotionally survive. Choose to migrate.

Please do us and all of the readers a favor. Keep us posted on your outcome. It is our duty to help others in a similar plight.


----------



## BWBill

_this morning she is a wreck, crying again, telling me how she is going to hell for all shes done, would kill herself if it werent for the kids, blah, blah...._

I don't think true reconciliation starts until it stops being about her needs, her feelings, and what is going to happen to her. She needs to focus on you and repairing the damage she has inflicted on you.


----------



## WhiteRaven

One of the things I despised about my xWW was how she wanted to use sex to keep the marriage afloat. 'If you don't D, I'll let you fvck me as much as you want' attitude is immensely hurtful and humiliating. You pay a hooker with cash, not marriage.

Just venting guys.


----------



## Lovemytruck

WhiteRaven said:


> One of the things I despised about my xWW was how she wanted to use sex to keep the marriage afloat. 'If you don't D, I'll let you fvck me as much as you want' attitude is immensely hurtful and humiliating. You pay a hooker with cash, not marriage.
> 
> Just venting guys.


Nicely vented!

That is what hysterical bonding evolves into after some time. I also think it is a tool used by those pushing for marriage/commitment in the beginning.

When we take sex out of the equation, is the relationship still worth it? If the answer is no, why bother? Sex becomes distasteful and repulsive when it represents manipulation.

I prefer to have sex symbolize love. How hard is it to find a decent woman who will give you both? No all that difficult IMO.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Lovemytruck said:


> Nicely vented!
> 
> That is what hysterical bonding evolves into after some time. I also think it is a tool used by those pushing for marriage/commitment in the beginning.
> 
> When we take sex out of the equation, is the relationship still worth it? If the answer is no, why bother? Sex becomes distasteful and repulsive when it represents manipulation.
> 
> I prefer to have sex symbolize love. How hard is it to find a decent woman who will give you both? No all that difficult IMO.


I had the hysterical bonding part after Dday #1, when I innocently thought it was an EA. After Day #2, everything changed. Everything. I hate and will continue to hate myself for having sex with her. Manipulating me was so easy for her. All she had to do was drop her clothes. It's heart wrenching when you understand your love was just a game for someone.


----------



## Lovemytruck

WhiteRaven said:


> I had the hysterical bonding part after Dday #1, when I innocently thought it was an EA. After Day #2, everything changed. Everything. I hate and will continue to hate myself for having sex with her. Manipulating me was so easy for her. All she had to do was drop her clothes. It's heart wrenching when you understand your love was just a game for someone.


Not to thread jack, but this is why limbo is so difficult for so long. Back to the OP, yup, we have been there. It is the one time in my life that I felt like an utter failure. D was not for me. Never, ever planned on it. It eventually becomes your savior as you heal completely.


----------



## Jung_admirer

larry.gray said:


> *She needs to feel that staying with her is a gift*. Any attempt in guilting you into staying makes you think she doesn't see it as a gift. ....


Thanks LG, I needed to hear that.


----------



## Wazza

Lovemytruck said:


> Not to thread jack, but this is why limbo is so difficult for so long. Back to the OP, yup, we have been there. It is the one thing time in my life that I felt like an utter failure. D was not for me. Never, ever planned on it. It eventually becomes your savior as you heal completely.


To me this is worth thinking through.

Infidelity changed my life forever. I had to rethink a whole lot of things....the whole nature of relationships.

For me reconciliation was the right choice, but it came with a lot of pain and some things that will never heal. Watching friends who divorced, it seems to me that it also brings baggage.

I think the most important thing is to keep it all in perspective and find a way not to be bitter. For me part of that was seeing a marriage as fundamentally a very close friendship, that is not invulnerable and can end.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I would plant VARS, then while on your trip


VARs wont be able to run for two weeks will they? batteries will die out.....wont they?


----------



## Chaparral

Here is a link to a book that many find very helpful. The link is to the online version or it can be bought online for around eight dollars.

I think most wayward spouse that truly want to reconcile need a guide, hopefully this will help.

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/HOW_TO_HELP_11-06-10_FINAL_pdf-.pdf

Do not discount ptsd counseling for yourself. And definitely read MMSLP linked to in my signature. The reason for MMSLP is to learn where relationships have gone off the tracks in recent decades.


----------



## Chaparral

CantBelieveThis said:


> VARs wont be able to run for two weeks will they? batteries will die out.....wont they?


Get the Sony VARs at best buy or Wal-Mart that cost around 50-60 dollars. Buy lithium batteries and you should get about 25 hours of recording time. If you want to put one in the car, where cheaters love to talk, put it under the drivers seat with heavy duty Velcro. Especially if the posom is local


----------



## MarriedTex

CantBelieveThis said:


> she says she would understand but would be hurt very bad because she would feel i did it out of revenge, and says the same quote again, "dont fix a wrong with a wrong" (tired of hearing that)


This should work both ways, you know. 

Next time she uses this catch phrase quote, ask her why she chose to have an affair (her wrong) in response to your lack of attention. (your wrong). She fixed a wrong with a wrong. 

She won't have an answer, and she'll break down crying. But at least you can put an end to her using her "get out of jail free" quote.


----------



## LongWalk

VAR often reveals everything quickly.

There was a BH a while ago whose wife was a nurse. She was having an affair with some male nurse whose hobby was photography, if I recall correctly. His gut feeling that she was cheating was set off when he dropped by the hospital unannounced one evening to give dinner. She was very surprized and came out to the lobby and was wearing that flushed just been fvcking look.

He had trouble finding hard evidence of the affair but after they separated he tracked her car with GPS or her iPhone and she went to the POSOM's apartment.

Sorry I can't remember the posters name.

Another guy married to a cheating nurse is BrokenShadow, but her infidelity is connected with opiate addiction. She hooked up with a fellow addict in court mandated therapy.

There are probably many stories involving nurses on TAM.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Wazza said:


> To me this is worth thinking through.
> 
> *Infidelity changed my life forever. I had to rethink a whole lot of things....the whole nature of relationships.*
> For me reconciliation was the right choice, but it came with a lot of pain and some things that will never heal. Watching friends who divorced, it seems to me that it also brings baggage.
> 
> *I think the most important thing is to keep it all in perspective and find a way not to be bitter*. For me part of that was seeing a marriage as fundamentally a very close friendship, that is not invulnerable and can end.


:iagree:

I think Wazza and I are telling you the same thing with only with different paths.

Bottom line is that you are changed. It changes us. I would agree strongly that not becoming bitter is essential to your future. You have to evaluate what path will allow you to not become bitter.

R or D really depends on what you are capable of emotionally. Both have disadvantages. Both can be good. Both have some pros and cons.

Limbo is worse.


----------



## Wazza

Lovemytruck said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think Wazza and I are telling you the same thing with only with different paths.
> 
> Bottom line is that you are changed. It changes us. I would agree strongly that not becoming bitter is essential to your future. You have to evaluate what path will allow you to not become bitter.
> 
> R or D really depends on what you are capable of emotionally. Both have disadvantages. Both can be good. Both have some pros and cons.
> 
> Limbo is worse.


Limbo is hell.

The other factor is your partner. You can't fix a marriage alone. Even if the affair was out of character, the problems that made your spouse vulnerable to it are still real issues that must be dealt with.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CantBelieveThis said:


> VARs wont be able to run for two weeks will they? batteries will die out.....wont they?


How long will it take you to get to your destination? Or, you could call her before you head into the airport...

It's a "set up". You call about the possible polygraph test and IF she had left out important information like, other affairs, or if what happened with the jail bird was way more than she said, Or...

She may panic and start seeking advice from, a BFF that knew about her jail bird BF, Or someone that knew about another affair prior, Or...

She's not going to wait 3 days to ask someone about this. You've just told her something like, "The questions will be, did you do more with jail bird than you have told me? Yes, or no. Have you had sexual contact with any other man/men besides jail bird, or I since we've been together? Yes. or no. Do you want to stay married to me because you really love me? Yes, or no."

I think you get 3 questions, but you can tell her it's 4, or 5, if you want to get more bang for your buck.

Good point about the car though. If she's not home when you call(I would call 20 minutes after I left the house, Tell her it's so she has the maximum time to THINK about the questions...), then she'd probably be home(right?)

Otherwise, velcro a VAR under the drivers seat of the car she'll be driving.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Wazza said:


> Limbo is hell.


Limbo is reliving the A period over and over again. 

Use VARs. They are lifesavers.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

ok guys but I dont get it....i am 10 months out from dday...at this point what am I using a VAR for? I monitor all her calls, texts, emails, etc...she hardly talks to anyone except her parents and her sister....she has confessed everything about the A, and she confessed even more back then when i threatened with poly, so i have already used that card....

thou i get the part about the setup from groundpounder, think am going to do that just to see if anything pops up, but am doubtful....


----------



## CantBelieveThis

also last night was bad, i told her no matter what she said divorce was still on the table....she broke down badly again hanging onto me telling me "I cant lose you, I love you too much, i so regret everything i have done, I will never be able to repay to you what I did, please i beg you to forgive me at one point, please dont leave me, cant live without you, etc, etc"

so our 14 year old overheard her crying and she comes running into our room crying too....."mom dad please dont divorce, please dont separate from each other, we want you guys together" and she just kept crying with my wife.....i just stood there pale and couldnt say a word....eventually we both told her it was going to be ok and kissed her and hugged her back into her bed....

she is our oldest daughter and she has known all along my wife had an affair, she has written us letters asking us to forgive each other and not to split up....just was really painful to see her crying like that last night along her mom, made me feel bad....really makes it so hard to make a decision to leave or do anything.....ah damn infidelity, and god help us all affected by it, this stuff is horrible

thank goodness for a supportive crowd like TAM, it really does make a difference guys


----------



## Csquare

Hang in there, CBT. Keep doing what you need to do for your own healing and for the health of your family. Don't back down in the face of tears and drama. 

I get the sense that you feel something is missing - that there is still something you need from your WS: maybe it's capitulation that she f'd up and wronged you; that you were not to be blamed for this violation; that your willingness to try R at all is a major act of generosity and good will that she needs to have the humility to recognize.

Others have mentioned that she seems to make it all about her. She needs to have an attitude adjustment. It is now about you - and what she needs to do or understand to be the life partner you deserve. Not some cut rate version. Physical beauty is no longer enough to please you. She needs to develop strength of character.

All this requires the test of time. Hope your family heals from all this.


----------



## sammy3

CBT.

I'm almost 3 years out. Been through a lot w a h that has begged and cried all the way through for me to take him back, believes he has been remorseful, has laid the guilt trip on me so heavy that it almost cost me my life, all in the name of love. 

I love my h, he loves me, but I understand exactly what it is you feel. I finally realized that the affair has changed us so much as individuals, that it affects how we relate now to each other, that now affects the relationship. It's like we are married to someone else. 

The reality is, the bottom line , can you both live with the consequences of her affair, without living a lie to each other. 

-sammy


----------



## Hicks

Wow... She is still basically following the cheater mentality.
IT's all about her. That's really what your problem is.

You will probably stop thinking abou divorce if she stops thinking mainly about herself.


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> she is our oldest daughter and she has known all along my wife had an affair, she has written us letters asking us to forgive each other


I know your oldest child is only 14, so I’m not sure the following is appropriate now, but it will be someday.

There is a difference between being an inattentive spouse working their a** off and a spouse that had a PA. Someday I would say it’s more difficult for me to forgive mom because she had a boyfriend. That broke my heart. 

I think the path of least resistance is best especially since your wife is so remorseful. I would stay but keep divorce on the table. I would express it this way: “I have to consider divorce until my heart is healed.” That makes you the victim and focuses attention on her affair. 

Reassure your kids over and over how much you and your wife love them. The number one job of both you and your wife is to take care of them. 

Depending on how things go you might add that you have no intention of getting a girlfriend anytime soon because you know how much that would hurt their mom. You don’t want to break her heart.

If everything is great you might as well stay until all the kids are 18. You don’t want to cut off your nose to spite your face.


----------



## Jasel

Your wife may be remorseful, but that doesn't change the fact that she's obviously trying to play you like you're a ****ing fiddle. At least as far as emotional manipulation goes anyway.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Csquare said:


> I get the sense that you feel something is missing - that there is still something you need from your WS


yes csquare, but i dont know what that is...i just feel betrayed and lot of bitterness/anger. for all I know she is doing the right things and saying the right things but she still thinking too much of herself and that is whats getting on the way perhaps?



sammy3 said:


> can you both live with the consequences of her affair, without living a lie to each other


^^^ This for me still an unknown....how do i find out? time? is it just too soon only 10 months out?




Graywolf2 said:


> I would stay but keep divorce on the table. I would express it this way: “I have to consider divorce until my heart is healed.” That makes you the victim and focuses attention on her affair.


this is what am trying to do, but it causes the sticking point with her not wanting to hear this....am to the point I dont care what she says about it, if I say is on the table, then it is , too bad what she thinks....


----------



## WhiteRaven

I'd like to relate the story of my uncle, dad's elder brother. We are a family of alpha males. He and I have the only marriages among relatives where there was an A. My aunt had an affair but uncle couldn't D immediately because of the children. The pastor helped improved their marriage. They become the lovey-dovey couple again. His youngest daughter went to college and BAM!. He filed for D a month later. He waited 11 years for all his children to move out. When the D was finalized, he was 62 and aunt was 60. A year later, he married a 50 yr old widow. He is 71 now and still married without any issues. Aunt is in an old-age home for the last 6 years.
His children have finally understand why D is essential in some cases.

Being around him for so long, I know how his mind works. He sacrificed 11 years of his life for the happiness of his children. 11 years of acting happy and content- a superhuman feat. He is the toughest man is our family.


----------



## Graywolf2

Keep divorce on the table.



CantBelieveThis said:


> this is what am trying to do, but it causes the sticking point with her not wanting to hear this....am to the point I dont care what she says about it, if I say is on the table, then it is , too bad what she thinks....


:iagree:


The key you need to reinforce over and over is that the customary consequence for a physical affair is divorce. 

Giving her a second chance is you being nice; it wasn’t something she earned or deserves. All positive credit she earned over the years was lost when she f**ked the OM. Her account is empty.


----------



## Jasel

I'm just curious but do you think there's a chance she's done this before??? Especially since it doesn't sound like you suspected an affair to begin with, you just happened to catch her. 

And as someone else suggested I think you should tell her you want to DNA test the kids.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Graywolf said it well.

For some reason WSs don't realize that divorce is ALWAYS on the table for ANY betrayals/cheating/affairs.

Didn't they vow this very thing on their wedding day?

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if you were caught with another woman you would receive D papers shortly afterwards.

I am not advocating a RA, but the double standards most WSs have is astounding. If you did file, I am sure she would change tactics from hanging on you to becoming vile and selfish.

Just venting. I feel for you and your children. Your daughter may be as much a victim in this as anyone. My sons were a little older, so it was less of a torment.

Keep us updated.


----------



## Openminded

Our lives change forever when our spouse cheats. It's something they don't care about during their affair. They do care when, for whatever reason, they don't want their marriage breaking up. Then they can really start applying the guilt. Begging. Pleading. Whatever they think will work.

ETA: 10 months is not enough time for you. Some people make snap decisions about R and some need lots of time to decide. Don't let her pressure you. She created the problem. It takes you however long it takes you. She will need to live with that. Quietly.


----------



## Openminded

I was your daughter's age when my father had an affair. I was an only child and my mother chose to stay for me. The problem was I never forgave my father. So staying in the marriage is not always best for the children. 

I think your wife by her histrionics is dragging your daughter into this and using her to keep you from leaving.


----------



## Chaparral

Just because of the way your wife is acting is no way to assume she isn't doing the right things. Posters here used to say don't consider R until they act just like your wife. Begging, pleading, cryingand snot flying.

Did you download the book I recommended?

You really need to find a individual counselor with infidelity and ptsd training.

No, ten months is not long enough to get over it.

What are you doing to help yourself?


----------



## Hicks

The other thing is, why do you have to constantly tell her you are thinking about divorce? You can think about things without talking about them.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Chaparral said:


> Did you download the book I recommended?
> 
> You really need to find a individual counselor with infidelity and ptsd training.
> 
> No, ten months is not long enough to get over it.
> 
> What are you doing to help yourself?


yes I got your ebook and going to give it to her today to read, looks like its perfect for a WS....

I work a lot, I enjoy my job so that keeps me going...I exercise 4-5 times a week religiously and in good shape, but I dont feel I go out enough with my buddies and stuff, I used to a lot more, need to start that again.....



Chaparral said:


> Not speaking to her on your trip is childish. Youare the rock, the strengh of your family. Show leadership.


I think you are right about this, it is childish now that I look at it, and I wont do it.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Hicks said:


> The other thing is, why do you have to constantly tell her you are thinking about divorce? You can think about things without talking about them.


am not really bringing it up all the time, am just trying to get her to admit that it is an option on the table, but she doesnt want to hear it...if she would admit it I wouldnt bring it up unless I actually did it.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Originally Posted by Chaparral 
Not speaking to her on your trip is childish. Youare the rock, the strengh of your family. Show leadership. 



I think you are right about this, it is childish now that I look at it, and I wont do it.[/QUOTE]

disagree. I think your original idea on this was correct. just tell her you need some time alone to think (because you do). as I said, it hard for me to understand how you can usefully reflect on your situation if you are constantly bombarded with her arguing, weeping and other histrionics. Staying quiet for a couple weeks, given that you have to be out of town anyway, seems completely reasionable to me.


----------



## Wazza

I'm going to be really blunt. The marriage is in bad shape now. How much kicking the crap out of your wife will it take to make it the sort of marriage you want to be in?

She did the wrong thing. But it is done. She can't undo it. You have every right to leave her over it. So if that is what you want to do, do it.

Otherwise, man up and bring some positives into the situation. Deal with issues, don't rug sweep, for example, you really think she doesn't know divorce is an option? Why do you think she is pleading with you? Make up your mind. If she is manipulating, leave her. But if not, it helps nothing to keep attacking.

If she is truly remorseful, her own guilt is beating her up worse than you ever could. And if not, then she is not reconcile material.

I hope this makes sense. I wasted too long in limbo before reconciling properly and it would be nice if you could avoid that.


----------



## Wazza

CantBelieveThis said:


> I work a lot, I enjoy my job so that keeps me going...I exercise 4-5 times a week religiously and in good shape, but I dont feel I go out enough with my buddies and stuff, I used to a lot more, need to start that again.....


Yes. No one is a totally reliable partner. You need to build your own life and share it, not be totally dependent on anyone. 

It's perverse but the marriage will actually be improves by that, and you will be happier.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Wazza said:


> She did the wrong thing. But it is done. She can't undo it. You have every right to leave her over it. So if that is what you want to do, do it.
> 
> Otherwise, man up and bring some positives into the situation.


i hear you Wazza...you are right, i feel like a whining punk a lot and i hate it, is all the toxic anger and resentment that do this and is eating my up lately....
i think i put this away too soon and focused on my work because I got really busy, but now that things have slowed a bit my head got my feelings into high gear again about her cheating....


----------



## Wazza

CantBelieveThis said:


> i hear you Wazza...you are right, i feel like a whining punk a lot and i hate it, is all the toxic anger and resentment that do this and is eating my up lately....
> i think i put this away too soon and focused on my work because I got really busy, but now that things have slowed a bit my head got my feelings into high gear again about her cheating....


That's going to happen. I did the same thing. Frankly, my wife should have left me the way I treated her at some points. 

You have to work through things and deal with them, but honestly, nothing she says or does will make it unhappen. You have to deal with that and get it into perspective. 

The other thing is there will now always be triggers, always be doubts. Deal with it. If that means leaving her so be it. How will you find someone who won't cheat? Or will you live alone? Or take the risk.

For me my wife is worth the triggers and sadness. She is mostly amazing and I love her. Some people need to divorce because they cannot get over looking at their spouse and remembering. You have to decide which is right for you.

I know it hurts like hell, and the things I am saying are easy to say and hard to do. But you want to succeed? Work out what it takes to succeed and do it.


----------



## Hicks

CantBelieveThis said:


> am not really bringing it up all the time, am just trying to get her to admit that it is an option on the table, but she doesnt want to hear it...if she would admit it I wouldnt bring it up unless I actually did it.


WHY?

What purpose does it serve to get her to admit anything.
You are the guy who decides what is or is not on the table.
You state it and be done. Getting her to admit that divorce is on the table is a counterproductive waste of time and energy.


----------



## Csquare

CantBelieveThis said:


> i hear you Wazza...you are right, i feel like a whining punk a lot and i hate it, is all the toxic anger and resentment that do this and is eating my up lately....
> 
> CBT,
> 
> Be patient with yourself. Maybe "whining punk" will be your new normal for awhile. Sheesh, it's not like someone stole your ice cream cone or some trivial thing like that. Your wife violated your marriage.
> 
> Seems to me that "toxic anger and resentment" are appropriate reactions and that you shouldn't feel weak, ashamed or the need to apologize for those feeling. Your wife - if she wants to stay with you - will have to put up with the fall-out that she caused.
> 
> Be gentle with yourself as you process all of those emotions. The healing process is hella painful - lots of ups and downs - but necessary for you to recover. Don't be afraid. You will come out stronger at the other end.


----------



## Jasel

> am not really bringing it up all the time, am just trying to get her to admit that it is an option on the table


For what? You'll either file or you wont. Whether she can wrap her head around it or not, or even wants to, has nothing to do with it.



> but she doesnt want to hear it...if she would admit it I wouldnt bring it up unless I actually did it.


Then how about not bringing it up period unless you actually plan on doing it?? I don't see how her verbally acknowledging that it might happen or you trying to force her to accept a possibility that is beyond her control anyway, makes any difference.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

yesterday i told her cheating is her character flaw...and she responded with this....does this sound remorseful? or just politically correct?


----------



## jack.c

your answer: YES I AGREE.... GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW LIFE.


----------



## Chaparral

I think it sounds remorseful. She did not lay any blame on you. Character flaw? That just a matter of semantics. She doesn't want it to be a character flaw as that would indicate it was a permanent flaw.

This sounds as good as anything I have seen here so far. You have to decide if you can work on it with out defeating yourself and see if, in time you can be successful.

Have you read MMSLP yet? Much of the stuff you have posted would make any person second guess their commitment to you. You still need to read the book in order to have a real male female relationship with any woman. You don't want your own behavior to be at cross purposes with what you are trying to achieve. 

At least go read the reviews f the book at The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Philat

Once again I agree with Chaparral. This sounds like the real thing. But only actions on her part will tell you for sure.


----------



## happyman64

CBT

Your wife sounds remorseful.

But you sound like the spouse that is stuck.

I have a suggestion for you....

Since you are still married, still living at home why not act like you are married.

Chap is right. Be the leader.

Not talking to her or the kids while you are away does not serve any purpose.

You can still be married, bang your wife every night, still be a family while you decide if you can forgive your wife and reconcile the marriage.

And if you choose divorce well guess what? It does not matter what your wife wants or not. It is your choice.

It is a consequence she will have to face.

So throwing divorce in her face on a daily or weekly basis until she admits it is indeed a choice gets neither of you further along in your post affair decision making process.

Drop it.

Focus on you. Get some me time in with your friends or family.

IMHO I think you still love your wife and would indeed miss her if you separated or divorced.

Now give her the darn book and make her start working on the "why" of her affair.

And no matter if you do R or D you need to encourage her to do the right thing everyday in life.

Because you will be a coparent with her for a very long time.

HM


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

If you decide to R, I would still hang on to any evidence of her affair for a while. A few years anyway.

She sounds remorseful in that text, but that's Today. Once someone cheats they're more likely to cheat again.

If things ever go back to "normal" in the marriage again, just remember, they were "normal" the first that she cheated also...


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> yesterday i told her cheating is her character flaw...and she responded with this....does this sound remorseful? or just politically correct?


It is remorseful but why? She had an A and it did not work out. She put you on notice and you and the one who had to change. She does not have any other alternatives.

She put you on 90 probation to prove yourself worthy of her.

She would have left you 10 months ago if OM wanted her. This was not mutual, he would not commit hence your probation. OM did not pursue her so she took you off of probation early.

Now OM is in jail and you are the only option at the moment.

You need to resolve the truth of things. In the end, this is your decision and you should so what is best for you.
.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Chaparral said:


> Have you read MMSLP yet? Much of the stuff you have posted would make any person second guess their commitment to you.


i got it couple days ago and will begin reading it today




happyman64 said:


> But you sound like the spouse that is stuck.
> 
> IMHO I think you still love your wife and would indeed miss her if you separated or divorced.


yes indeed, thats my main problem HM...am stuck in between staying or going very badly....and I dont know how to sway one way or another. Sometimes I find that I can stay and work it thru, because we still love each other, she is remorseful and because it will keep the family intact since we both depend so much on each other to parent the kids. BUT sometimes I feel so betrayed by both the emotional and sexual aspects of her affair that is not something I would ever thought I would tolerate and it would be a deal breaker....thats my main problem and I have found very little that helps in finding the determining factor into that big decision....is this normal, is this just part of this effing ugly process?
why is it worse now 10 months later than it seemed to be the first few months? will it get worse before it gets better or is a decision required before anything gets any better?


----------



## happyman64

This process is normal.

And 10 months out is nothing.

You need to reach a place in your mind if you can forgive infidelity.

To some it is a deal breaker. To others it is not. That is your first decision.

You need to chew on that fact as long as it takes. Can you forgive your wife's infidelity and be able to reconcile the marriage. That is true reconciliation. It takes years my friend.

Or is your wife's infidelity a deal breaker. You can forgive her but decide you can no longer be married to her. Divorce.

Or you cannot forgive her and you need to divorce her. Coparent relationship only.

It is good if your wife is remorseful. Have you ever told her you forgive her?

HM


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> i got it couple days ago and will begin reading it today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes indeed, thats my main problem HM...am stuck in between staying or going very badly....and I dont know how to sway one way or another. Sometimes I find that I can stay and work it thru, because we still love each other, she is remorseful and because it will keep the family intact since we both depend so much on each other to parent the kids. BUT sometimes I feel so betrayed by both the emotional and sexual aspects of her affair that is not something I would ever thought I would tolerate and it would be a deal breaker....thats my main problem and I have found very little that helps in finding the determining factor into that big decision....is this normal, is this just part of this effing ugly process?
> why is it worse now 10 months later than it seemed to be the first few months? will it get worse before it gets better or is a decision required before anything gets any better?


It is normal and it will get worse as you hit the anniversary dates of the A.

You also are having a very typical reaction because of how you handled the A at first. You will see a lot of BH coming back after one plus years after.

Your wife dictated terms of the R and you surrendered. Now she is asking you to again do more than she was willing to do. None of this was important when someone was interested. All these things she is saying now did not matter 12 months ago to her.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

happyman64 said:


> To some it is a deal breaker. To others it is not. That is your first decision.


thats the thing, one moment it is a deal breaker, others is not....how does one find out for certain? I dont want to make a decision based on transient irrational thoughts... for example, its when am angry that I tend to feel strongly about it being a deal breaker...so is it the anger causing me to think is a deal breaker or the other way around??
have you just got to chew on your thoughts for a lot longer to know for sure?



jim123 said:


> You also are having a very typical reaction because of how you handled the A at first.


i know it....i should have put my needs forth also, but honestly I didnt because I did not feel like this back then....i guess being paralyzed from the shocking discovery does some things to you. I was always clear with her that she should go if she wanted to be with him and I would handle it (before she knew he was going to prison)....but I also told her I would go for R if she wanted to give it a try....maybe that was a mistake. I regret not telling her that it was SHE who was on probation.....

I feel like perhaps I should have D papers drawn up ready to go and put her on her on probation?


----------



## Philat

CantBelieveThis said:


> thats the thing, one moment it is a deal breaker, others is not....how does one find out for certain? I dont want to make a decision based on transient irrational thoughts... for example, its when am angry that I tend to feel strongly about it being a deal breaker...so is it the anger causing me to think is a deal breaker or the other way around??
> have you just got to chew on your thoughts for a lot longer to know for sure?
> 
> *Just chewing on your own thoughts won't help. It will drive you crazy. Your W has to demonstrate (or not) a consistent pattern of behavior showing remorse, realization of the hurt she has caused, and commitment to helping you heal in order for you to decide. These are the terms of her probation.*


----------



## warlock07

CantBelieveThis said:


> yesterday i told her cheating is her character flaw...and she responded with this....does this sound remorseful? or just politically correct?


Subtle manipulation..Couldn't put my finnger on it for quite some time. She had an affair with a felon. Made it your fault. Then she lied. Then she put you through a sh!t test for 90 days. To have a one night stand would be a mistake. To have drunk sex would be a mistake . But only reconciling because the affair option turned out to be a dud is not a mistake. It is a huge character flaw and is being a very very sh!tty person.

Now wonder you are confused the heck out...This woman is good at reading you. 

Swap the genders to see how manipulative she is being.


----------



## DoktorFun

Another option:

You can try (live) with her after divorce.
from zero...


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> thats the thing, one moment it is a deal breaker, others is not....how does one find out for certain? I dont want to make a decision based on transient irrational thoughts... for example, its when am angry that I tend to feel strongly about it being a deal breaker...so is it the anger causing me to think is a deal breaker or the other way around??
> have you just got to chew on your thoughts for a lot longer to know for sure?
> 
> 
> 
> i know it....i should have put my needs forth also, but honestly I didnt because I did not feel like this back then....i guess being paralyzed from the shocking discovery does some things to you. I was always clear with her that she should go if she wanted to be with him and I would handle it (before she knew he was going to prison)....but I also told her I would go for R if she wanted to give it a try....maybe that was a mistake. I regret not telling her that it was SHE who was on probation.....
> 
> I feel like perhaps I should have D papers drawn up ready to go and put her on her on probation?


This is a reaction of many BH's on this board. Anytime you do not stand up for yourself, most men regret it and the healing process takes longer. Even now you wife is trying to do what is best for her and you must suck it up.

I would draw up the papers and also have her start to disclose to people what she did. Too much is on her terms thus you never feel better about yourself.


----------



## happyman64

I agree that too much is on her terms.

But I do not agree with drawing up divorce papers.

Because his wife will feel more desperate to save the marriage.

And that can make her go crazy.

I suggest while CBT works on himself he encourages his wife to do the same and for her to work on the "why".

I do not think "threatening" her with divorce will have any positive outcome at this time.

I do agree that his WW should disclose to family what has transpired.

Their familys support can help as long as it is positive.

HM


----------



## jim123

The D papers are for OP. He needs some action steps. 

It will make it real for both of them.


----------



## happyman64

I think his wife knows its real.

The D papers could drive her over the edge and do something really stupid.

We have seen this before.

All in good time CBT.


----------



## jim123

happyman64 said:


> I think his wife knows its real.
> 
> The D papers could drive her over the edge and do something really stupid.
> 
> We have seen this before.
> 
> All in good time CBT.


This is unfair to say this to OP. She has not indicated she would do this. To tell someone to reconcile so you WW does not kill herself is a little aggressive and below the belt.


----------



## happyman64

jim123 said:


> This is unfair to say this to OP. She has not indicated she would do this. To tell someone to reconcile so you WW does not kill herself is a little aggressive and below the belt.


Life is not fair.

And I did not tell him to reconcile with his wife.

Nor did I say that she would kill herself.

But what good is living with a woman that can't stop crying all the time because her battered spouse is threatening divorce.

From what CBT has described of her reaction to him trying to get her to admit that he has a right to divorce her is pointless.

The fact he is still there is what should be pointed out to her.

It takes two to reconcile. It only takes one to divorce.

Neither decision is easy. But both decisions are hard.

He needs to take as much time as "he" needs until he is sure which direction "he" wants to take.

HM


----------



## CantBelieveThis

yes i given up on having her admit that D is on the table....am not going there again with all her crying and what not....it wasnt about her admitting to divorce really...what was pissing me off was the fact she would not agree to something with me....but as many have said, is my choice and thats all that matters....

as far as her family, well her parents dont give crap anymore...she got into a big fight with her mom cause her mom called her a **** or something so since then they dont talk about the affair anymore and her parents just said is between us and not their business...so am not going there again if they dont care
however she never admitted to them that the POSOM was a felon...which kinda bothers me of course.

i guess for now she will have to live with the fact that D still a possibility whether she likes it or not, and that I will take as much time as needed before I decide when D is off the table and am fully healed


----------



## bandit.45

The reason her parents don't care is because their spoiled brat daughter is a cake eater and their son in law won't man up and put an end to this farce. They are sick of the drama and sick of the two of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

jim123 said:


> This is unfair to say this to OP. She has not indicated she would do this. To tell someone to reconcile so you WW does not kill herself is a little aggressive and below the belt.


There have been quite a few suicide attempts here in the last few years. Some successful. Wayward wives really do off themselves when they realize what they have done to their families.

Betrayed husbands take that way out too. I think that Karen Straughan video mentioned cheated/divorced husbands suicide rate went up 10 over average.

Posters should always realize they are dealing with possible life and death situations.

People commit suicide and murder for a lot less.


----------



## Chaparral

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes i given up on having her admit that D is on the table....am not going there again with all her crying and what not....it wasnt about her admitting to divorce really...what was pissing me off was the fact she would not agree to something with me....but as many have said, is my choice and thats all that matters....
> 
> as far as her family, well her parents dont give crap anymore...she got into a big fight with her mom cause her mom called her a **** or something so since then they dont talk about the affair anymore and her parents just said is between us and not their business...so am not going there again if they dont care
> however she never admitted to them that the POSOM was a felon...which kinda bothers me of course.
> 
> i guess for now she will have to live with the fact that D still a possibility whether she likes it or not, and that I will take as much time as needed before I decide when D is off the table and am fully healed


In her mind she knows divorce is on the table. Uttering it however makes it too real. Its like she is in denial of being in denial. She knows what she has done. She knows how she has hurt you. She just isn't giving up. An admirable quality I think. Thus the passion she is putting in the crying and begging. She is like an athlete that is behind in the score but fights hard refusing to give up.


----------



## Chaparral

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes i given up on having her admit that D is on the table....am not going there again with all her crying and what not....it wasnt about her admitting to divorce really...what was pissing me off was the fact she would not agree to something with me....but as many have said, is my choice and thats all that matters....
> 
> as far as her family, well her parents dont give crap anymore...she got into a big fight with her mom cause her mom called her a **** or something so since then they dont talk about the affair anymore and her parents just said is between us and not their business...so am not going there again if they dont care
> however she never admitted to them that the POSOM was a felon...which kinda bothers me of course.
> 
> i guess for now she will have to live with the fact that D still a possibility whether she likes it or not, and that I will take as much time as needed before I decide when D is off the table and am fully healed


Not wanting to get into it doesn't mean they don't care. They may be afraid to make it worse.

I think there is no advantage to mentioning divorce at all. As a matter of fact you might get a truer read of her thinking if she could quit thinking about that and crying all the time.. It may be time to let things get to normal, just so you can see what that normal is going to be like. You may or may not accept the new normal. Who knows how she will act if she thinks everything is ok.

If she asks or insists on knowing just say "I'm working on this, that's all I can say because that's all I know."


----------



## sidney2718

CantBelieveThis: I suspect that one outstanding problem is that your wife may know what the affair did to you, but she doesn't really know. You have got to lay it out for her in a non-accusatory non-confrontational manner. 

She knew what she was doing. For you it was a bombshell. She had plenty of opportunity to stop or change direction. You never had any such chance. The result was presented to you on a stinking platter.

Tell her how you were hurt. Don't be afraid to tell her that she got you right in the balls. It not only takes time for something like that to heal, one never feels quite comfortable ever again.

She not only has to take responsibility for what SHE did, she has to understand how what SHE did affected YOU. I don't think she quite gets it yet.

Tell her that if you'd been one of those strong neanderthal males, her butt would have been flying out the door so fast she'd get airsick. Remind her that she chose the felon. Remind her that she came crawling back to you, not as a winner, but as a total loser.

And now the important part. Her job is not just to own what she did, her job is to make you feel that she was worth the pain it still causes you. You don't ever want to even suspect anything about her again. And no, promises don't count. Actions do.

Until she takes part of your pain on herself, divorce will always be on the table.

For your part, talk to her, but don't verbally beat up on her. She's a person too and needs to feel that she can once again be your partner and not your slave.

Good luck! I think that in time you will understand that she made a mistake that many others have made. A reconciliation can happen and it can succeed. But both of you have to work at it.


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes i given up on having her admit that D is on the table....am not going there again with all her crying and what not....it wasnt about her admitting to divorce really...what was pissing me off was the fact she would not agree to something with me....but as many have said, is my choice and thats all that matters....
> 
> as far as her family, well her parents dont give crap anymore...she got into a big fight with her mom cause her mom called her a **** or something so since then they dont talk about the affair anymore and her parents just said is between us and not their business...so am not going there again if they dont care
> however she never admitted to them that the POSOM was a felon...which kinda bothers me of course.
> 
> i guess for now she will have to live with the fact that D still a possibility whether she likes it or not, and that I will take as much time as needed before I decide when D is off the table and am fully healed


Do your parents know? It is not her parents job. The fact they know is a help and maybe is part of her push for R. If you forgive they will too.

We have some very good WW on this site. Each would understand the D if it made the BH heal. None wanted and each fought as hard for the M.

Your WW is all about what is best for her. She will not help you heal.


----------



## warlock07

Somehow she reminds me of cantthinkstraight's wife(the usernames even match).

If OP does go for divorce, I think she will become very spiteful...


----------



## Acabado

warlock07 said:


> Somehow she reminds me of cantthinkstraight's wife(the usernames even match).
> 
> If OP does go for divorce, I think she will become very spiteful...


Not even close. cantthinkstraight's wife never got it, never, she didn't own her choices, apologized beyond a few fake tears very early on, didn't work on rebuilding the marriage as OP's wife did/does (acording his own words), wasn't empathetic nor patient at all, couldn't cope with cantthink's rollercoaster and was defiant, angry instead becasue he didn't just shut up and got over it already. Nothing of what OP wrote here resembles cantthinkstraight's wife's behavior and mindset.
The only thing remotely similar is her "aparent" desperation when OP treatens divorce and in cantthinkit's case it was proven her desperation was indeed aparent (=fake), not surprising given the way she dealt with the aftermath, wich culminated with her getting a new phone, refusing transparence and restarting contact with her POSOM.
OP states his wife has been, still is 10 months after DDay, doing all the right things, trying to help him heal and somehow trying to compensate him for her wrongdoings by being a mix of stepford wife and porn star... yet she cries in desperation when OP tells her he's weighting the divorce anyway. Does she drop her hands becasue "it's not working"? Nope. For what I've read she doesn't behave as a game player, treatens to stop trying, to take him to the cleaners nor any other manipulative tactic... she just refuses to accept the divorce as a possibility and ask for *more time* to keep trying to make up for her wrongdoings.
OP'S wife is, unless OP tells us otherwise totaly remorseful IMHO. It happens that remorse doesn't grant forgiveness, even less reconciliation. OP is not in limbo becasue of his wife post DDay actions or inactions but becasue ten months after DDay he still can't cope. He doesn't have to thou.


----------



## mom1.2

CantBelieveThis said:


> sometimes i feel like staying because she totally regrets it and very remorseful....cries a lot, begs me to stay and to keep our family together and I dont want to tear the family apart either (3 kids) but other times I just feel so wronged and that i dont have what it takes to overcome the betrayal (2 months EA/PA).....have read books, gone to IC/MC....and those things help but like they arent strong enough to overcome these feelings....is 10 months way too soon for me to expect more??


I SO know how you feel... I CANNOT and probably WILL NOT forgive... Not everyone can forgive - It has been 7 months since I found out and I am way too suspicious and believe it is still going on... While before he was the one threatening to leave, screaming divorce NOW - 7 MONTHS LATER - It is me... Well, I am not screaming but I cannot forgive the betrayal and I want out... I cannot look at him, be in the same room with him, spend time with him or sleep in the same bed. And I do not fell like I have to - not even for the kids.
So I say - give it all the time you feel you need to see IF you can get over the betrayal. But no one says you have to, and no one says you have to stay - not even for the kids.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Acabado said:


> OP'S wife is, unless OP tells us otherwise totaly remorseful IMHO. It happens that remorse doesn't grant forgiveness, even less reconciliation. OP is not in limbo becasue of his wife post DDay actions or inactions but becasue ten months after DDay he still can't cope. He doesn't have to thou.


^^^ totally this ^^^


----------



## mom1.2

To be honest with you, the more I think about this CantBelieveThis, the more I think we should just bail... Get on with our lives, learn to be happy again Although it does seem impossible at the moment... And I have no clue where to begin.


----------



## Lovemytruck

warlock07 said:


> If OP does go for divorce, I think she will become very spiteful...


:iagree:

Here is the true test of remorsefulness. Most WS fail miserably when D is a result of their actions.



Acabado said:


> OP is not in limbo because of his wife post DDay actions or inactions but because ten months after DDay he still can't cope.


:iagree:

CBT liked this, and it is a fair assessment. Ultimately it is about healing. When you realize you are not getting better, it is time to move on. It is not about her actions anymore. It is about your ability to cope. The decision to D is fair to both of you at this point.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

just caught her in a stupid white lie of omission, geez....something she had no reason to keep from me at all, yet she decided to and even hide it....what is it with some people they dont ***1n listen or dont learn??? or are they just plain stupid in some ways??? I mean is not like she doesnt know that I can catch up with her stuff and that I have access to everything and then some....

whatever, sorry just venting....dont even feel like confronting her with it...so frustrating, maybe I can handle a cheater once....maybe, but sure as hell I cant tolerate an idiot....


----------



## Lovemytruck

CantBelieveThis said:


> just caught her in a stupid white lie of omission, geez....something she had no reason to keep from me at all, yet she decided to and even hide it....what is it with some people they dont ***1n listen or dont learn??? or are they just plain stupid in some ways??? I mean is not like she doesnt know that I can catch up with her stuff and that I have access to everything and then some....
> 
> whatever, sorry just venting....dont even feel like confronting her with it...so frustrating, maybe I can handle a cheater once....maybe, but sure as hell I cant tolerate an idiot....


The tone of your posts indicate that you are moving toward a D. Why are you waiting? Guilt? Fear? I have seen most of the "likes" on your thread, and you tend to like the posts that advise you to move on. Well?

It will be okay if you do. You seem to need a push. Accept the fact that your marriage fell apart, and you need to move on. It is fine. Most of us get to that point after cheating. Embrace your decision, and move forward.


----------



## DoktorFun

Lovemytruck said:


> The tone of your posts indicate that you are moving toward a D. Why are you waiting? Guilt? Fear? I have seen most of the "likes" on your thread, and you tend to like the posts that advise you to move on. Well?
> 
> It will be okay if you do. You seem to need a push. Accept the fact that your marriage fell apart, and you need to move on. It is fine. Most of us get to that point after cheating. Embrace your decision, and move forward.



^This. :iagree:

CBT, You can/need start from zero. You will see her true colors then...


----------



## happyman64

Confront her. Calmly.

Tell her you just want the truth no matter what it is.

You will in fact be making her life easier......

Hopefully she will agree with you and stop acting like an idiot.


----------



## Wazza

Lovemytruck said:


> The tone of your posts indicate that you are moving toward a D. Why are you waiting? Guilt? Fear? I have seen most of the "likes" on your thread, and you tend to like the posts that advise you to move on. Well?
> 
> It will be okay if you do. You seem to need a push. Accept the fact that your marriage fell apart, and you need to move on. It is fine. Most of us get to that point after cheating. Embrace your decision, and move forward.


CBT, whether you divorce or reconcile is your choice. I can't agree with the truckster that that most people choose divorce after an affair, because I've seen wildly varying statistics. In any case, I see how it helps to know what other people did, but your situation is unique.

She is not what you thought she was. As I see it, the challenge is to figure out who she is and decide whether you want to be with her on that basis.

I had the impression you were liking most posts...kind of a thank you.


----------



## Adelais

CantBelieveThis said:


> i guess for now she will have to live with the fact that D still a possibility whether she likes it or not, and that I will take as much time as needed before I decide when D is off the table and am fully healed


Sorry for the advance notice: you might never be fully healed. You might scar over, with a thick, tight scar that won't let you forget what happened.

Some people say their marriage is better years later. But it takes a lot of work on the part of the WS, and a _*very*_ forgiving and trusting BS. I'm beginning to wonder if I am capable of lasting forgiveness and trust. Sometimes I think I have forgiven, then the monster rears its ugly head again. I think I need a miracle.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Wazza said:


> I had the impression you were liking most posts...kind of a thank you.


yes correct Wazza...everyones feedback is extremely helpful to see the light from a difference perspective...

I will not confront her tonight, not really in a mood for it....plus am thinking of not confronting at all and letting it go, am curious if this was a one time thing or if she keeps it up....if I confront I lose chances she might repeat it....

in essence she let her friend (female, divorced, they work together) talk to her about an affair she is been having with a some other married man (neither of us know him). Her friend (whom knows my wife had an affair) initiated the text messages and was mostly doing the talking, my wife didnt say anything, just something like "oh well" (apparently they ended their affair)...but my wife went ahead and then deleted any and all text messages with that friend about this chat, without knowing I had already seen them....

My W had previously told me this was going on with her friend, so this isnt news to me, but we had a deal she was not to talk about any of this at all with her friend under any circumstance, so obviously this pissed me off ....granted I realize it was her friend that started the chat, but it bothers me she didnt stop her like we had agreed, and then she went on and deleted the messages with no other reason but to keep me from seen what had happened. 
just an example where she is suppose to come to me openly and tell me everything, but instead she chose to be stupid enough to 1. not doing the right thing 2. trying to hide it from me when she knows I will catch any and all of this nonsense


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes correct Wazza...everyones feedback is extremely helpful to see the light from a difference perspective...
> 
> I will not confront her tonight, not really in a mood for it....plus am thinking of not confronting at all and letting it go, am curious if this was a one time thing or if she keeps it up....if I confront I lose chances she might repeat it....
> 
> in essence she let her friend (female, divorced, they work together) talk to her about an affair she is been having with a some other married man (neither of us know him). Her friend (whom knows my wife had an affair) initiated the text messages and was mostly doing the talking, my wife didnt say anything, just something like "oh well" (apparently they ended their affair)...but my wife went ahead and then deleted any and all text messages with that friend about this chat, without knowing I had already seen them....
> 
> My W had previously told me this was going on with her friend, so this isnt news to me, but we had a deal she was not to talk about any of this at all with her friend under any circumstance, so obviously this pissed me off ....granted I realize it was her friend that started the chat, but it bothers me she didnt stop her like we had agreed, and then she went on and deleted the messages with no other reason but to keep me from seen what had happened.
> just an example where she is suppose to come to me openly and tell me everything, but instead she chose to be stupid enough to 1. not doing the right thing 2. trying to hide it from me when she knows I will catch any and all of this nonsense


This is not small. She can not have any contact with partners in crime or cheater supporters.

Small lies will become big lies. If she is serious, she must follow your rules.


----------



## Wazza

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes correct Wazza...everyones feedback is extremely helpful to see the light from a difference perspective...
> 
> I will not confront her tonight, not really in a mood for it....plus am thinking of not confronting at all and letting it go, am curious if this was a one time thing or if she keeps it up....if I confront I lose chances she might repeat it....
> 
> in essence she let her friend (female, divorced, they work together) talk to her about an affair she is been having with a some other married man (neither of us know him). Her friend (whom knows my wife had an affair) initiated the text messages and was mostly doing the talking, my wife didnt say anything, just something like "oh well" (apparently they ended their affair)...but my wife went ahead and then deleted any and all text messages with that friend about this chat, without knowing I had already seen them....
> 
> My W had previously told me this was going on with her friend, so this isnt news to me, but we had a deal she was not to talk about any of this at all with her friend under any circumstance, so obviously this pissed me off ....granted I realize it was her friend that started the chat, but it bothers me she didnt stop her like we had agreed, and then she went on and deleted the messages with no other reason but to keep me from seen what had happened.
> just an example where she is suppose to come to me openly and tell me everything, but instead she chose to be stupid enough to 1. not doing the right thing 2. trying to hide it from me when she knows I will catch any and all of this nonsense


My wife was like this. Thing is, if she is determined to deceive you she will find a way....a burner phone, a secret email account, etc. So I would tend to clearly agree rules, then observe, and confront sparingly, with overwhelming evidence. That way you learn a lot more, and can form a better opinion on whether she is actively cheating, or just trying to be "tactful". (This is not a defence of tactfulness that becomes lies, just a recognition that different people draw the line in different places). 

Of course, you have to decide what will be your deal breakers.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes correct Wazza...everyones feedback is extremely helpful to see the light from a difference perspective...
> 
> I will not confront her tonight, not really in a mood for it....plus am thinking of not confronting at all and letting it go, am curious if this was a one time thing or if she keeps it up....if I confront I lose chances she might repeat it....
> 
> in essence she let her friend (female, divorced, they work together) talk to her about an affair she is been having with a some other married man (neither of us know him). Her friend (whom knows my wife had an affair) initiated the text messages and was mostly doing the talking, my wife didnt say anything, just something like "oh well" (apparently they ended their affair)...but my wife went ahead and then deleted any and all text messages with that friend about this chat, without knowing I had already seen them....
> 
> My W had previously told me this was going on with her friend, so this isnt news to me, but we had a deal she was not to talk about any of this at all with her friend under any circumstance, so obviously this pissed me off ....granted I realize it was her friend that started the chat, but it bothers me she didnt stop her like we had agreed, and then she went on and deleted the messages with no other reason but to keep me from seen what had happened.
> just an example where she is suppose to come to me openly and tell me everything, but instead she chose to be stupid enough to 1. not doing the right thing 2. trying to hide it from me when she knows I will catch any and all of this nonsense


A leopard can't change it's spot.

Even talking about affairs still excites her enough to break her promise. She let the convo continue, she deleted the text then lied by omission.

This is really bad. She doesn't seem to even want to try to change. I wouldn't say anything and continue to monitor. It's more than likely only going to get worse.


----------



## Chaparral

Don't say anything until she brings something regarding your relationship. The simply say you know she has not been honest about somethings lately and she is losing ground. Don't make a bidvdeal out of it. Just let her know you have no reason to trust her.

No anger, no arguing just tell her her toxic friends will end up sinking her.

As far as your overall situation, ten months isn't long for reconcilliation. Whether or not you stay in it, you have to take control and be fine which ever way you go.

Google ptsd counseling.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Chaparral said:


> As far as your overall situation, ten months isn't long for reconcilliation. Whether or not you stay in it, you have to take control and be fine which ever way you go.


i know, i have to give it at least a year and I promised myself that and for the kids that I would wait at least that long before I made any long term decision....after all is only a couple months away...

our anniversary is coming up in a week, ...am thinking of telling her I do not plan to celebrate it at all....and that I dont want anything from her and she shouldnt expect anything either....


----------



## happyman64

> and that I dont want anything from her and she shouldnt expect anything either.


Why say anything?

Why not just watch to see how she acts.

Let her do the work. 

I think her action or inaction would be interesting to observe.


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> I regret not telling her that it was SHE who was on probation.


This is where you initially went wrong but you were in shock. Who could blame you. 

From your wife’s point of view talk of a divorce *instigated by you *came out of nowhere. After all, you were on probation not her. If you failed she would divorce you and could go to the OM. That’s why she freaked out when she discovered he was going to jail. Her safety net was totally and suddenly gone.

_P.S. I understand that your wife called off your 90 day trial period early and before she knew the OM was going to jail. Never the less, it was comforting thinking he was out there and available to her._




CantBelieveThis said:


> our anniversary is coming up in a week, ...am thinking of telling her I do not plan to celebrate it at all....and that I dont want anything from her and she shouldnt expect anything either.


This is a good way to partially recover from that mistake.


----------



## LongWalk

It is possible to read too much into words in a text message. But could you explain how you read this?

1) Before all of this happened would your wife make a self denigrating statement like this? I don't mean just in relation to sexual behavior but all issues of integrity. In other words, is she careless with self description? Does she say things that suggest low self-esteem?

2) She says she felt that she was acting promiscuously. In retrospect she is not proud of that. If you go to MC, you might ask her if that feeling was both good and bad. Did she feel ashamed but also excited by being bad girl?

The obvious truth is that she did enjoy illicit sex. For you as her legitimate husband to fill this need can be difficult because your role as a lover is to be respectful. If you can meet her need for sexual excitement, perhaps you can make her love you more.

How exactly you do that I cannot say. She may have some kinky desires. Now she is probably afraid to tell you about them for fear that you will judge her. If you can get her to open up perhaps this will strengthen your relationship.

It maybe that you have be a leader in some way. If you can make your sex life better, it is not an entirely unpleasant challenge. Or what do you think?

3) When she wrote that "even you will agree", does she meant that you will agree that she admitted to you that she spoke about her self realization?

4) With regards to divorce being a possibility, well this obvious for all marriages. What your wife does not want on the table is the idea that your marriage is serious trouble and that you are giving up. Stating that your marriage is not in trouble would be like an affirmation of your vows.

Perhaps instead of threatening divorce you could recast this in a positive light. Set up some nice moment. Take your wife out to dinner or cook a meal together if you do that. Go for an ice cream or whatever. Tell her that one year from now you want to renew your vows in front a small gathering of friends and family.

In this year that you aim for this she is to tell you no lies. For your part you will work in your heart to forgive her. Say that in this year the two of you should bust your butts to do a good job. That includes in the bedroom. Working out to stay fit. Doing things together, etc.


----------



## jim123

CBT,

Part of your issue is you are at the one year mark of the A. You said you a re 10 months out and she has a two month A.

If you WW had true remorse, she would do anything including D to help you heal. Everything is for her and not for you.

It is normal to feel like you do at this time.

Work on yourself.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

ping....bump...whichever....am alive

still here....been reading a lot of the other great treads out there and learning a lot....doing a bit better, W still working hard but unfortunately am still stuck in limbo...a dangerous place to be based on all the reading i have done.....triggering a lot also because she starting cheating on me about this time last year 

i asked her yesterday that I wanted to do separation while still living together and she went nuts....cried a lot as usual told me she cant handle that, she cant live w/o me, she would do anything i ask, etc, etc....so i backed off 

i feel so broken still i can hardly get my daily job done, everything feels immensely difficult to do, havent hit the weights in a couple weeks and hate it when i dont take care of myself....

really p1sses me off her parents dont give crap about what she has done, i had a lot more respect for them before this.....


----------



## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> It is very difficult for a BH because you are isolated, embarrassed and hurt.
> 
> I always advise strong actions so you can regain some confidence and control. You need to feel better about you.


reading back on my own tread this is what i feel like exactly....but am at a loss of what strong action to take at this point....and with her working as hard as she is....


----------



## Dredd

CantBelieveThis said:


> ping....bump...whichever....am alive
> 
> still here....been reading a lot of the other great treads out there and learning a lot....doing a bit better, W still working hard but unfortunately am still stuck in limbo...a dangerous place to be based on all the reading i have done.....triggering a lot also because she starting cheating on me about this time last year
> 
> i asked her yesterday that I wanted to do separation while still living together and she went nuts....cried a lot as usual told me she cant handle that, she cant live w/o me, she would do anything i ask, etc, etc....so i backed off
> 
> i feel so broken still i can hardly get my daily job done, everything feels immensely difficult to do, havent hit the weights in a couple weeks and hate it when i dont take care of myself....
> 
> really p1sses me off her parents dont give crap about what she has done, i had a lot more respect for them before this.....


The good thing is your wife is repentant and wants to make things right. Thats a big step up from others here who's spouses cheat and don't care what damage it does. She seems to regret her actions deeply, so if you can find it in your heart to forgive her, then you should consider doing it.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

is the anger and resentment that are issue i think.....i mean maybe because when DD I never left, never filed for D, never kicked her out, never separated....so basically did nothing....should 
I expect the anger and resent to stick around until I do something drastic? 

and I mean really her parents not giving crap really bothered me.....they been married for almost 40 years I thought they would have regarded fidelity very highly


----------



## CantBelieveThis

JustPuzzled said:


> CBT, you may already have covered this but what was OM heading to prison for?


armed robbery/assault....geez dont remind me....he told her he only did this because he was high on drugs, this had happened a year before they met he was still out on bond....she really picked a winner


----------



## Q tip

Read up on that book that's been recommended. 

I have a friend who had a car accident. Not his fault. It was an expensive repair. The repair work and even paint is guaranteed for as long as he owned the car. He talks about his wounded car quite a bit. 

I asked him, would you ever buy a car that's been in an accident. He said, 'no of course not'. I responded, 'well, you're driving one'. He thought about that for a while. 

He chose to keep it, years later he's still not over the damage. Probably will never be...


----------



## GusPolinski

CantBelieveThis said:


> I have seen a lawyer at the beginning of all this mess and got an initial consult and things didnt look very appealing to me, child support, _*stupid lifetime alimony in FL (no-fault state)*_, a financial disaster to say the least....but i will follow up with another visit to find other ways to divorce in the future and have things more lined up as best as possible


Saw this a few pages back and had the thought... Ask her if she'd be willing to move w/ you to an "at fault" state. If she's truly remorseful and wants your marriage to work, she should be willing to do that. _Right?_



CantBelieveThis said:


> we had another chat last night, and this sticking point persists with her, *she still refuses to accept that divorce can be an outcome of her infidelity*, she says she doesnt want that on the table for our marriage....that we can work this thru because we love each other so much more now than even before and because we enjoy each other and have such a beautiful family....whatever...i ended up telling her "_are you stupid or something??_" and just walked the fvck away...she started with all her crying and what not.....


Conversely, infidelity shouldn't be a part of a healthy marriage. But then, "_should_ ain't _is_", right?

Seriously, has she ever _truly_ addressed the WHY behind her decision to engage in an affair? If not, how can either of you know that she won't do it again at some point...? Think about it... if she's as attractive as you say she is, the attention from other men isn't likely to stop anytime soon.

It can't just be that _you_ needed to change. I say this because you seem to have pretty much said it yourself a while back. You weren't paying enough attention to her, yadda yadda blah, she stepped out, you found out, she freaked out, you committed to change, and then she's all in for reconciliation. This may be a source of some of your frustration. You may feel like the wife that you have now is the wife that you should have had or deserved all along, ergo she hasn't really atoned for anything. So, in your mind, you've really been the only one to make any changes. Sound about right...?



CantBelieveThis said:


> this morning she is a wreck, crying again, telling me how she is going to hell for all shes done, *would kill herself if it werent for the kids*, blah, blah.....told her we are going to have to go back to MC and find a good counselor because she wont get it thru her head that divorce IS a possibility


Has she been to IC at all? It sounds like she would definitely benefit from it. I mean... I understand the sentiment behind it, but much of what you've said regarding her mental state (begging, crying, pleading, throwing herself at your feet, etc.) would seem to paint her in an unhealthily clingy, desperate, emotionally-needy light. I know that everyone here in CWI says that _at least some of that_ would be desirable in a truly remorseful WS, but what you've described seems a tad excessive.


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife has poor self esteem. She was drawn to a BS artist whose idea of explaining his criminal behavior was to blame it on drugs. Your wife may have had the affair in part because she was not living up to her own expectations.

Do you think she was disappointed in herself and what she has accomplished in her life?

Her failure to tell you about the conversation with the toxic friend is good example of her lack of confidence. She was probably afraid that you would be angry about the conversation, regardless of whether she came clean. But from her perspective she was just a girlfriend helping a girlfriend. If she helped that wayward continue on her affair, that would have been a very serious transgression, don't you think?

One way that you might gain some peace of mind is to write a letter of apology to your wife. In this letter write no criticisms of her at all. Do not mention the affair at all, just write about things in your behavior that cause you dissatisfaction in yourself.

In this letter do not make any pledges or promises about the future. This letter will be a big surprize to your wife. If she really working on herself, she will see your self criticism as an example of what she has to do.

Can't Believe This,

You could easily have decided to find solace in drink or a revenge affair. Instead you have stuck to venting on TAM. You should give yourself credit for being a strong person. Whether or not you decided to divorce is your decision but you are thinking it over carefully and rightly so, since it affects so many.

I suspect that you will come closer to a decision if you find yourself unable to have sex with your wife. If you find yourself repulsed by her. If your affection recedes to be replaced by disgust and indifference, then you may be done with your marriage.

If you find comfort in intimacy, then maybe you will come to see her infidelity as a failure that is far outweighed by her positives.

When she wanted all that cosmetic surgery did you wonder why she had such a poor self image? Did you criticise her breasts or belly?

The affair was also a kind of mental operation to change self image. I think you will be happier together if she likes herself better. She needs to forgive herself so that she has self respect. That will be good for your children, too. They need a mother who is stronger.

Mrs John Adams is a former WW who might have something interesting to say. You could PM her and ask her to read your thread.


----------



## GusPolinski

...and then there's this...



jim123 said:


> It is remorseful but why? She had an A and it did not work out. She put you on notice and you and the one who had to change. She does not have any other alternatives.
> 
> She put you on 90 probation to prove yourself worthy of her.
> 
> She would have left you 10 months ago if OM wanted her. This was not mutual, he would not commit hence your probation. OM did not pursue her so she took you off of probation early.
> 
> Now OM is in jail and you are the only option at the moment.
> 
> You need to resolve the truth of things. In the end, this is your decision and you should so what is best for you.
> .


Also, I wouldn't be so sure that OM doesn't have any intent to reinitiate contact once he's out of the slammer.


----------



## lovelygirl

Everytime you talk about leaving/separation she starts crying and does/says everything she's said all over again?
Aren't you tired of that? It's how she manipulates you! She has learned the script by heart and once you say something that ruins her comfy life....she goes back to square one.
She knows that when she does all this ...that's your soft spot!

If you plan separation, JUST DO IT!! If you say something make sure you follow through! 
Let her cry...after all..if she won't endure it then she'll be the first to D you and you'll know she wasn't worth it anyway.


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> is the anger and resentment that are issue i think.....i mean maybe because when DD I never left, never filed for D, never kicked her out, never separated....so basically did nothing....should I expect the anger and resent to stick around until I do something drastic?


Men can be troubled for decades if it seems that their wife “got away with it.”

See this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/183641-crime-punishment-your-views.html

*Here is what I posted on that thread:*



LongWalk said:


> Cheating sex for the first time must feel delicious. It is the loss of a second virginity. Hence cheaters cannot unfvck their AP's.


One of the problems with R is that it sometime appears that the WS hasn’t suffered at all. Let’s say there is a family function where things are going well. The BS looks at their happy WS and suddenly becomes resentful. 

They are still married doing what they would be doing if the WS hadn’t strayed. At that moment it appears that the WS has paid no price whatsoever. The BS triggers and lashes out at the WS. Now they are both miserable and the good time they were having is destroyed.

In my opinion this situation could be better dealt with by getting a divorce and working on your relationship instead of your marriage. Then when the BS looks at the happy WS they know that a price was paid. It would be like looking at someone who was an army sergeant who was busted to corporal because they messed up. 

Marriage just like a top secret clearance is a privilege, not a right. You have to earn top secret clearance in the government. They trust you not to tell secrets. If you tell secrets you lose your clearance and become an average citizen.

When you get married one of the main things you promise is to not have sex with someone other than your spouse. If you break this trust you should lose your marriage certification. 

There is no stigma today whatsoever for unmarried people to live together and have kids. What I will never understand is why you have to be married to work on your relationship and R. Never married people live together and work on their relationship until they feel that have reached the marriage level. Divorce and living together is just the reverse because you discovered the relationship wasn’t at the marriage level. 



LongWalk said:


> One punishment is to divorce and live together. At that point she is only with you because she wants to be. She will have a new chastity to protect.


----------



## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> reading back on my own tread this is what i feel like exactly....but am at a loss of what strong action to take at this point....and with her working as hard as she is....


If you want to separate, then do it. Tell her you need time to heal. 

Other strong actions include, working on you. Do some things you love. Start building your own life. Become strong and independent.


----------



## Graywolf2

lovelygirl said:


> Everytime you talk about leaving/separation she starts crying and does/says everything she's said all over again?
> Aren't you tired of that? It's how she manipulates you! She has learned the script by heart and once you say something that ruins her comfy life....she goes back to square one.
> She knows that when she does all this ...that's your soft spot!


:iagree:

She is like a child that has a tantrum until she gets what she wants. Do what is best for you. She will respect you more and your marriage will be better if you end up together.



CantBelieveThis said:


> I feel so broken still I can hardly get my daily job done, everything feels immensely difficult to do.


Your wife hasn’t noticed this? If an in house separation will help you then do it. Your wife obviously cares only about herself. This isn’t surprising since narcissistic people are more likely to have affairs.


----------



## Graywolf2

CantBelieveThis said:


> I mean really her parents not giving crap really bothered me.....they been married for almost 40 years. I thought they would have regarded fidelity very highly.
> 
> What really p1sses me off her parents dont give crap about what she has done, i had a lot more respect for them before this.....


Her parents are probably freaked out but they don’t want to rock the boat. You are doing exactly what they want you to do, taking care of their little girl. 

If they show their outrage it will validate how horrible their daughter’s actions were and you might divorce her. 

Mob rule is when other people are violent so you become violent too. This is mob rule in reverse. If everyone around you is acting calm then everything must be fine. You take no action.


----------



## Philat

LongWalk said:


> Mrs John Adams is a former WW who might have something interesting to say. You could PM her and ask her to read your thread.


Yes absolutely! Maybe even more to the point is JohnAdams himself. For him something was missing in Mrs JA's sincere expressions of sorrow and remorse for many years until they discovered a resource enabling her to really find the right words.


----------



## Ripper

Essentially, you are being held inside the marriage for ransom by the government. Supposedly, Florida law takes infidelity into account when issuing alimony, but that is a huge gamble. Injustice isn't a strong enough word.

Some people can't get over physical infidelity, no matter what the WS does. 

If you decide to get out, try to move to another state or see if the law is going to change, supposedly lifetime alimony is on the block again in Florida.

If none of that is an option, this is one example where "I" could justify going outside the relationship. She already destroyed the marriage, its just a binding government contract at this point.


----------



## CH

CantBelieveThis said:


> i asked her yesterday that I wanted to do separation while still living together and she went nuts....cried a lot as usual told me she cant handle that, she cant live w/o me, she would do anything i ask, etc, etc....so i backed off


Just do it, it seems like you need it to heal. When you finally heal, you could still be with her. Or you could finally see that infidelity is something you can't handle and move on.

You and the kids 1st at this point. You can't fix a marriage if you're broken. Better to ditch the broken part for now (wife) and fix you (also broken) then if you want, go back and repair your marriage as a whole person.

Sucks to be her, but she can't have win on both sides. Have an affair and keep her husband.

Don't ever stay just for the kids....Well, unless the youngest is 17 and about to turn 18 tomorrow, then I would say, go ahead and stay for the kids.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Graywolf2 said:


> One of the problems with R is that it sometime appears that the WS hasn’t suffered at all. Let’s say there is a family function where things are going well. The BS looks at their happy WS and suddenly becomes resentful.
> 
> They are still married doing what they would be doing if the WS hadn’t strayed. At that moment it appears that the WS has paid no price whatsoever. The BS triggers and lashes out at the WS. Now they are both miserable and the good time they were having is destroyed.



good lord man, how do you know this??? 

just on easter day, large family gathering at our house...all our family there, her parents and her talking laughing having a great time.....all the mean time am sitting there all p1ssed off saying to myself "this is bullsht....this is wrong, I cant stand it"....i seriously just wanted to bolt out and run out of my own house that day because life just seems so undisturbed to her and of course her parents act like nothing has ever happened......i cant stress enough how much it bothers me her parents dont care, i dont even feel like talking to them anymore....

here is the thing thou, and I find this a bit embarrassing even if it shouldnt be....but i cant hurt my wife....I love her so dam much, she is not just my wife, she is like my sister , mother of my kids....when she starts all crying and stuff I just cant keep up my anger and rage against her....I just cant do it....maybe something I need to fix in myself?

i know this codependency thing is not healthy, but the history is there....I met her couple years after arriving to the US from Spain (native country) and i could hardly speak english....didnt know the culture here at all, dirt poor, very rough for me...totally foreign place and I was very alone (no sibblings, no other family here than my parents, few friends), and I feel like she showed me and helped me grow and survive in what was a new world for me, we built a family together, bought a home, got married, travelled all over the country together, built my career and wealth, then had the kids and basically built the little american dream....
then she cheats on me?!?...she ***1n cheats on me!!! with some ***1n scumbag lowlife gangster???..... i will never forget the day I found out...you have no idea, well maybe you all do actually....by far the worst day of my life, I felt things I never ever felt before and pain I didnt know existed....

am not trying to make you guys feel sorry for me, I have read plenty as devastating if not more stuff on here....my case is far from unique....but I feel like am attached to her is so many ways and why i feel so stuck....I see nothing but misery ahead of me, am having difficulty accepting that my life has forever changed, almost like is I lost a limb or something, I might be able to survive but will never be what I had, what I worked hard to built a life dream with her

not even a couple years ago, after she recovered from all her surgeries and stuff we went away for a romantic weekend together in Vegas.... , we told each other how is it possible for us to love ourselves more and more with time when you always hear marriages decay over time, yet we were firing off into the opposite way.......I clearly remember telling her we had such a good thing going that it was almost too good to be true, she laughed it off.... well little would I know I was correct.....

i dont know what else to say.....but one option am thinking of doing is running away, so I have an upcoming business trip to london and am thinking of not coming back, well for a brief moment i thought of never coming back....but I cant abandon my kids, so I am thinking of not coming back as planned and staying a month or two over there instead of a week....I dont know, i just think this might help me avoid seen her pain and let her face some consequences? or am I just being a chicken sht?
worried what she might tell the kids, i know my absence will hurt their activities since me not being there means they cant do some stuff when she is working, so she might have to stop working....


----------



## GusPolinski

CantBelieveThis said:


> i dont know what else to say.....but one option am thinking of doing is running away, so I have an upcoming business trip to london and am thinking of not coming back, well for a brief moment i thought of never coming back....but I cant abandon my kids, so *I am thinking of not coming back as planned and staying a month or two over there instead of a week*....I dont know, i just think this might help me avoid seen her pain and let her face some consequences? or am I just being a chicken sht?
> worried what she might tell the kids, i know my absence will hurt their activities since me not being there means they cant do some stuff when she is working, so she might have to stop working....


Not sure that extending your trip out to such a degree would be a good idea, but it seems like you may benefit from some time apart. Maybe take a week or so off and go camping, fishing, hunting, or whatever w/ some buddies.


----------



## lovelygirl

You don't have the MAN enough in you to let her go and show her the door!
Like you said, you are codependent and this prevents you from seeing things clearly. There's this battle within you, between your head and heart. 

The gateway in London would make you see things more clearly!

p.s. Are you sure she'll be not doing anything inappropriate during your stay away?


----------



## Divinely Favored

You need to make her get tested again for STD's and have her Dr. explain the report to you. I am a parole officer and A large % of convicts/felons have hepatitis, from drug use, sexual immoral behavior, blood swapping during fighting or dirty needles from tattoos while in prison. Look at her report for elevated liver enzymes. This STD destroys your liver. Its been long enough for some STD's LIKE HIV to also start showing up in her blood stream.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

CantBelieveThis said:


> i dont know what else to say.....but one option am thinking of doing is running away, so I have an upcoming business trip to london and am thinking of not coming back, well for a brief moment i thought of never coming back....


Been there bro. Disappearing forever so that no one can find you. It seems like the best idea. 

You can't run from your own pain. Explain to her why a separation is needed. It's not to hurt her but to heal yourself. She's the poison right now, she can't be the cure. If you had got some revenge against the POSOM, you'd have been in a better place today. For you it feels like your WW and POSOM had fun and you had to pay their bills with your tears and it is. You need some time alone, away from her. If she's willing to help you in it, it's proof enough that she loves you. Else it's manipulation. The further you are, the lesser chances of her manipulating you.


----------



## sammy3

CantBelieveThis said:


> good lord man, how do you know this???
> 
> just on easter day, large family gathering at our house...all our family there, her parents and her talking laughing having a great time.....all the mean time am sitting there all p1ssed off saying to myself "this is bullsht....this is wrong, I cant stand it"....i seriously just wanted to bolt out and run out of my own house that day because life just seems so undisturbed to her and of course her parents act like nothing has ever happened......i cant stress enough how much it bothers me her parents dont care, i dont even feel like talking to them anymore....
> 
> here is the thing thou, and I find this a bit embarrassing even if it shouldnt be....but i cant hurt my wife....I love her so dam much, she is not just my wife, she is like my sister , mother of my kids....when she starts all crying and stuff I just cant keep up my anger and rage against her....I just cant do it....maybe something I need to fix in myself?
> 
> i know this codependency thing is not healthy, but the history is there....I met her couple years after arriving to the US from Spain (native country) and i could hardly speak english....didnt know the culture here at all, dirt poor, very rough for me...totally foreign place and I was very alone (no sibblings, no other family here than my parents, few friends), and I feel like she showed me and helped me grow and survive in what was a new world for me, we built a family together, bought a home, got married, travelled all over the country together, built my career and wealth, then had the kids and basically built the little american dream....
> then she cheats on me?!?...she ***1n cheats on me!!! with some ***1n scumbag lowlife gangster???..... i will never forget the day I found out...you have no idea, well maybe you all do actually....by far the worst day of my life, I felt things I never ever felt before and pain I didnt know existed....
> 
> am not trying to make you guys feel sorry for me, I have read plenty as devastating if not more stuff on here....my case is far from unique....but I feel like am attached to her is so many ways and why i feel so stuck....I see nothing but misery ahead of me, am having difficulty accepting that my life has forever changed, almost like is I lost a limb or something, I might be able to survive but will never be what I had, what I worked hard to built a life dream with her
> 
> not even a couple years ago, after she recovered from all her surgeries and stuff we went away for a romantic weekend together in Vegas.... , we told each other how is it possible for us to love ourselves more and more with time when you always hear marriages decay over time, yet we were firing off into the opposite way.......I clearly remember telling her we had such a good thing going that it was almost too good to be true, she laughed it off.... well little would I know I was correct.....
> 
> i dont know what else to say.....but one option am thinking of doing is running away, so I have an upcoming business trip to london and am thinking of not coming back, well for a brief moment i thought of never coming back....but I cant abandon my kids, so I am thinking of not coming back as planned and staying a month or two over there instead of a week....I dont know, i just think this might help me avoid seen her pain and let her face some consequences? or am I just being a chicken sht?
> worried what she might tell the kids, i know my absence will hurt their activities since me not being there means they cant do some stuff when she is working, so she might have to stop working....



CBT,

You aren't alone in your thinking, fear, and worries. It what keeps us in limbo. I've been 3yrs. and for so many of those same similar reason, & I see no end. This is one of the nastiest thing I think another person can do to another. Hang in there. 

-sammy


----------



## nuclearnightmare

CBT:

I've followed your thread. did you take a extended leave in London or elsewhere? I thought that was quite a good idea.

you've been honest in using the term 'codependent' in describing how you feel about your wife. Yes - that is an issue having a lot more to do with you than her. you need to address that. get some IC with an expert professional and try to put those tendencies behind you, regadless of whether you stay with your wife or divorce her. I think codependence has a lot more to do with addiction than it does with love.

As for your wife, i don't get the sense she is a particularly mean person. no doubt she has some redeeming qualities. As WS go, there are a lot of BS on this board dealing with much lower creatures than she is. But honestly, please consider this - there are much better women out there than her. when I say better I mean exactly that - better people. higher character, more integrity, a better sense of self, more self control...and on and on. some of these women are available. I'm not telling you to act on anything right now - but do you really think you ended up with such a special person? Was she truly such a great catch for you, or do you deserve to be married to a better human being, or at least to seek that out?? something to ponder - if for no other reason it might help you loosen your codependence noose.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

nuclearnightmare said:


> CBT:
> 
> I've followed your thread. did you take a extended leave in London or elsewhere? I thought that was quite a good idea.


i did not, it was postponed till July....plus due to work reasons my plans for the "extended" stay are scrapped, so am back to the drawing board. 
am a work-at-home dad and the kids depend a lot on me to run them around for their sports and stuff while my wife is on her 12-hr shifts....so inevitably any absence on my part does put a strain on the whole family....so me being away for a month or two would really not do well for them at all....so am rethinking this whole "run away" thing now all over again....

sighhhh....nothing new, thats all I do with this darn thing, just think things over and over again and do nothing...least i can come here and vent :soapbox:


----------



## Ripper

Have you thought about a post-nuptial agreement? 

They are worth about as much as toilet paper these days, but it might help you deal with the limbo until you can figure out your next move.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

i mentioned to her I wanted to do one, and she said she would do it and didnt give me any grief about....i just havent followed up with it...why are they not worth anything thou? I thought it was a legal document....


----------



## harrybrown

Do it anyway.

See if she will sign it, see how committed she is to the marriage and you.


----------



## Ripper

Legal system is out of control. No contract is beyond being called null and void these days. Especially if "cupcake" can shed a few tears for the judge.

You need to feel like you are doing something, its not much, but what else can you do right now? Divorce laws have saddled you with a cheating harlot that you will have to *pay* to make go away.

She has already proven that she can't keep her legs closed for bad boy thugs. Those are a dime a dozen. Chances are that if you can't find a avenue of escape now, she will provide one later.

Just make sure you don't draw one up on a whim, have someone who has had them stand up in court look it over if possible.

Good luck. Just reading about your situation makes me rage, living it has to be hell.


----------



## larry.gray

CantBelieveThis said:


> I have seen a lawyer at the beginning of all this mess and got an initial consult and things didnt look very appealing to me, child support, stupid lifetime alimony in FL (no-fault state), a financial disaster to say the least....but i will follow up with another visit to find other ways to divorce in the future and have things more lined up as best as possible


I've had several trips to NC. It's a nice state. You should move there.


----------



## Ripper

Just spent some time researching Florida divorce laws. What a grab bag of sh*t. For a state that supposedly takes infidelity in account for alimony and child custody, its full of a bunch of mights, maybes, and judges discretion. 

Thanks to your wife's infidelity you get to look forward to:
1. Split assets division 50/50
2. Split child custody 50/50, with the you pay child support option. Yay!
3. Alimony. Oh boy!

If its not feasible to get out of the state (its likely not), maybe try a trial separation that turns permanent. Did your attorney see any way out of this for you?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Ripper said:


> Just spent some time researching Florida divorce laws. What a grab bag of sh*t. For a state that supposedly takes infidelity in account for alimony and child custody, its full of a bunch of mights, maybes, and judges discretion.
> 
> Thanks to your wife's infidelity you get to look forward to:
> 1. Split assets division 50/50
> 2. Split child custody 50/50, with the you pay child support option. Yay!
> 3. Alimony. Oh boy!
> 
> If its not feasible to get out of the state (its likely not), maybe try a trial separation that turns permanent. Did your attorney see any way out of this for you?


tell me the F about it...p1sses me off to no end...so unfair, and its lifetime alimony....

is not feasible for me to leave state due to work unfortunately....and no my attorney told me basically its the law and its what am facing....he was clear upfront that it was ugly for me....


----------



## aug

Is your wife working? If she's earning money, will that cut down on alimony?

In any case, she should work and contribute. Idle hands...


In the meantime, start disappearing your assets.


----------



## Ripper

CantBelieveThis said:


> its lifetime alimony....
> 
> and no my attorney told me basically its the law and its what am facing....he was clear upfront that it was ugly for me....


----------



## GusPolinski

Ripper said:


> Just spent some time researching Florida divorce laws. What a grab bag of sh*t. For a state that supposedly takes infidelity in account for alimony and child custody, its full of a bunch of mights, maybes, and judges discretion.
> 
> Thanks to your wife's infidelity you get to look forward to:
> 1. Split assets division 50/50
> 2. Split child custody 50/50, with the you pay child support option. Yay!
> 3. Alimony. Oh boy!
> 
> If its not feasible to get out of the state (its likely not), maybe try a trial separation that turns permanent. Did your attorney see any way out of this for you?





CantBelieveThis said:


> tell me the F about it...p1sses me off to no end...so unfair, and its lifetime alimony....
> 
> is not feasible for me to leave state due to work unfortunately....and no my attorney told me basically its the law and its what am facing....he was clear upfront that it was ugly for me....


Ugh. Talk about a sh*t sandwich, smothered in sh*t gravy, and topped w/ sh*t sprinkles...


----------



## aug

CantBelieveThis said:


> yes she is a nurse



Okay, saw this.

Nurses make good money, yes? Is she working full-time? Have you consider asking her for alimony?


----------



## CantBelieveThis

She works part-time only....per diem...didn't know I could ask her for alimony as bread winner


----------



## aug

CantBelieveThis said:


> She works part-time only....per diem...didn't know I could ask her for alimony as bread winner



Quite likely one of the reasons she had an affair was that she had too much free time.

Get her busy. Make her find a full time job as a nurse. Nurses get paid well. That should offset any alimony you need to pay.

If she made more money than you, you should ask her to pay you alimony. Dont forget you contribute to her education, so you go and claim against her income.


----------



## warlock07

I am bit concerned who she is crying for. Is she crying for herself, for the life she lost, for what she did to her husband ? 

CBT, you are very sure that the affair is dead now but I wouldn't be as sure when the scumbag OM comes out of the jail. is there any chance that she could be holding a candle inside her and will resume it when he contacts her again and gives her some sob story...

The tests, she seems pretty sure what she is doing to CBT.


----------



## Acabado

Another thread from this same poster and again everybody going to the same direction.
WW is remorseful, it's genuine. She keeps proving it after all this time. Lets stop saying otherwise when even OP agrees with it.
I highly doubt OP believes she's not as honest now -actually since she snapped of "it" - as she was when she wrote the hurtful things she said then. He doesn't doubt her love, her commitment, he even believes she won't cheat again, he just posted a new letter which many betrayed spouses would give the right nut for, after all that time... she keeps fighting. This is not the issue here.
What happens is remorse doesn't mean the betrayed spouse can cope nor need to cope with it. He states clearly what his problem is; it's not he doesnt believe she's remorseful, that she doesn't love him, the mind movies, the Plan B" thing... he can't cope with the betrayal. And she can't undo it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

CantBelieveThis said:


> tell me the F about it...p1sses me off to no end...so unfair, and its lifetime alimony....
> 
> is not feasible for me to leave state due to work unfortunately....and no my attorney told me basically its the law and its what am facing....he was clear upfront that it was ugly for me....


You're temporarily screwed, but only temporarily. The lifetime alimony is going to go away. It would be gone already but they pushed for too much last year and it got vetoed. This year is an election year so they didn't bring it up, but next year it will be brought up again without the part that lead to the veto and it should go through. Expect June/July 2015 to have the new alimony laws in effect. As long as you don't file until after that law goes into effect you'll be fine. 

The part that led to the veto was the part that allowed spouses that already had lifetime alimony against them to file under the new laws and get the alimony limited. That part will be gone when they introduce it next year so if your cheating wife already has lifetime alimony you're going to stay screwed.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Acabado said:


> What happens is remorse doesn't mean the betrayed spouse can cope nor need to cope with it. He states clearly what his problem is; it's not he doesnt believe she's remorseful, that she doesn't love him, the mind movies, the Plan B" thing... he can't cope with the betrayal. And she can't undo it.


spot on man.....the fact that she went to the scumbags apartment to get laid while I was sitting home working and watching the kiddos....what else do i need to keep me from coping???


----------



## sammy3

Acabado said:


> Another thread from this same poster and again everybody going to the same direction.
> WW is remorseful, it's genuine. She keeps proving it after all this time. Lets stop saying otherwise when even OP agrees with it.
> I highly doubt OP believes she's not as honest now -actually since she snapped of "it" - as she was when she wrote the hurtful things she said then. He doesn't doubt her love, her commitment, he even believes she won't cheat again, he just posted a new letter which many betrayed spouses would give the right nut for, after all that time... she keeps fighting. This is not the issue here.
> What happens is remorse doesn't mean the betrayed spouse can cope nor need to cope with it. He states clearly what his problem is; it's not he doesnt believe she's remorseful, that she doesn't love him, the mind movies, the Plan B" thing... he can't cope with the betrayal. And she can't undo it.



I 100% agree!!!! 

This needs to be addressed more than people realize, and in MC, IC too. Not just the affair, or the reason, or what lead the ww or what was broken in the relationship. It is never dealt with, "the betrayal" for the bs. The actual damage done to us, and now what are we suppose to do with it??? Imho

It's been 3 years for me, I think of it 24/7... it's not the same pain, nor even as painful, but it never ever goes away.. 

-sammy


----------



## warlock07

How does she react when you tell her that you want to leave ?

Crying ? threats of suicide ? 

At some point she has to love you enough to let you go. I think this is a hard thing to make a call on though..


----------



## LongWalk

Have you been reading Acoa's thread? I think that Acoa absolutely should divorce his WW for his own well being. Her cheating was a game. She didn't even love the OM (how many were there?). I'll bet that if she had been forced to chose among her husband and the OM, that only one man could live and the others had to die, she would have saved her husband. She loved him all along, but she did not respect him and for that R is impossible.

Acoa sees it so clearly. 

Your situation is different. Your wife's liminal being hijacked her heart but after a time her love for you reemerged. She does not seem to want you just because divorce is inconvenient: she wants you. That is not so bad, really.

But what she did may be too much. And if it is you have to get out.

I think you should tell your wife:



> Honey (or whatever you call her), I think you know that I am really struggling to accept what has happened. Sometimes I feel that divorce is the only way I can survive. I know you know how I am feeling. We are in a kind of limbo. If the limbo is too painful for you, tell me and we'll divorce.
> 
> I also want you to know that I know you've been trying. I appreciate it. Don't stop. We deserve a break from all our worry. Let's get a baby sitter go to a movie and grab a bit to eat afterwards.
> 
> Lets take things one day at a time.


You said that you respect your wife (can remember on which thread). That means a lot. She fvcked up big time but she is not a wallowing in irresponsibility.

The fear of what your wife would do to you in divorce is a factor that is blocking your acceptance of her. Why not tell her this? Wondering how terrible divorce would be for you is hurting you. How does she see it?

Is your wife happier and nicer after you bang her? Keep doing it.


----------



## aug

sammy3 said:


> It's been 3 years for me, I think of it 24/7... it's not the same pain, nor even as painful, but it never ever goes away..
> 
> -sammy


Perhaps it will much, much later. Or when start life afresh with someone else.





LongWalk said:


> Is your wife happier and nicer after you bang her? Keep doing it.


Doesn't one lose a little self-worth after each banging with a betrayer?


----------



## LongWalk

Aug,

He has been having sex with her.


----------



## aug

LongWalk said:


> Aug,
> 
> He has been having sex with her.



Yes, I know.


----------



## sammy3

CantBelieveThis said:


> tell me the F about it...p1sses me off to no end...so unfair, and its lifetime alimony....
> 
> is not feasible for me to leave state due to work unfortunately....and no my attorney told me basically its the law and its what am facing....he was clear upfront that it was ugly for me....


You should see my state laws!!! Everyone thinks the wife wins!!! No way !!! After 30 years of marriage, I lose big time!!! I basically spend about 80% of the income now, because of the homes, the lifestyle, the bills.

If I D, I will be awarded. 29% total of h income. All our access are in his name as I never worked and we didnt want the "debt" in my name.

I will be awarded, no maintain more than 2 years, no addition for
"re-education to return to society" as I am "determined" to "old" to return to the work force, as my lawyer told me... maybe, possibly "get" me another year because I am hearing impaired !!!! I will also have to start paying for my own health insurance. The list goes on & on to what a bad place I will be in. 

Meanwhile H goes on to earn a 6 figure income for the next several years, while I will be expected to return to the work force, ((but, I thought earlier I was to old???)) earning mim wage, he still will enjoy benefits of world travel, a great lifestyle, lots of great fun stuff to do all over the place, but since all of this mess we've been in, while I've been trying to get over the broken heart, broken marriage, his career has taken off, he's training for his future after retirement in a very lucrative field, I'm at his mercy, his generosity. 

So no, dont always think it's the wives out there that win in D. 

-sammy


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> exactly...i tell her the same thing and she just tells me she was very wrong and I shouldnt fix a wrong with a wrong (me leaving the marriage)....she tells me what she did was despicable and all the bad things and that she will never be able to make it up to me, etc, etc but i feel she uses this to make my leaving as wrong.....she also says her plan was never to leave me for him but instead she couldnt keep living with me ignoring her so yes she admits she took a very wrong way about addressing her needs....we go back and forth over this and i feel i dont get anywhere.....
> 
> they kind of both agreed to end the affair couple days after i found out, though it wasnt until almost 3 weeks later that she found out he was out on bond and was going to jail (which she was pissed that he didnt tell her about)....hell the guy sent "me" the NC letter himself!! so i dont think he is going to want to come back to her after 5 years when he gets out


Why did OM send you a NC letter.


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## CantBelieveThis

jim123 said:


> Why did OM send you a NC letter.


i think because he dumped her and he wanted to make it clear to me he was done with her!!! my take on it at least...she says he never told her he was going to do this....


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## jim123

CantBelieveThis said:


> i think because he dumped her and he wanted to make it clear to me he was done with her!!! my take on it at least...she says he never told her he was going to do this....


He wanted to make it clear to her. She continued to pursue him. He wanted to get rid of her once and for all.

Stop allowing her to blame you. Stop allowing her to lie to you.

Face this head on and get the answers you need.


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## Just Joe

CantBelieveThis said:


> i think because he dumped her and he wanted to make it clear to me he was done with her!!! my take on it at least...she says he never told her he was going to do this....


As I just posted in your other thread, I think this issue is what is at the heart of your not being able to feel good about reconciling. You need the truth of the matter, you need to know, and you need to hear it from her, did he dump her and that's why she decided to go back to you? And if that's the real reason, maybe you can forgive it, but you are going to have a tough time trying to forgive her for what you feel is a lie. At the heart of it, it seems to me that you don't believe her explanation, yet you are trying to forgive her for it and move on. It would be so much easier if you actually believed what you were forgiving her for.


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