# Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In December last year I quit drinking, decided to get my marriage right again, and committed to staying with a workout regimen longer than 6 months, which I had done off and on since 2005. When I recommitted, I started at 192 lbs, at 67", with a 35" ab measurement (34" jeans).

For four months I focused on lifting at a conditioning pace. My primary workout, with deviations, would be upper twice weekly of push/pull and lower once weekly, with two to three weekly runs of about 3 miles. Example workouts were as follows, blistering pace with no resting, with 8-12 reps: 

Upper:
Set 1-Incline Bench/Seated Row/Planks
Set 2-Dips/Assisted Pull Ups/Side Planks
Set 3-Overhead Press/Upright Rows/Leg and Body Lifts
Set 4-Cable Fly/Fly Machine/V Bar Pull Down/Split Rope Pull Down/Concentration Curls/Bent Bar Curls
Set 5-Cable Inner Chest Press/Cable Two Arm High Curl/Bicep 21's/Bench Dip Burnout

Lower:
25-35 Minute Treadmill Run
Goblet Jump Squats/Single Leg Deadlifts/Planks
Leg Press/Leg Curls/Hip Thrusts
Seated Leg Extensions/Calf Raises/Hanging Leg Raises

Each workout ended up being about an 60-75 minutes, but it was mostly fueled by anger due to the lousy place my marriage was in. I was also only consuming 1700-1800 calories daily with 1 gram/lb protein, while burning between 500-800 in my workouts, and 350 or so during my runs.

In March, I had dropped to 179 lbs and 33" ab measurement, but had hit a plateau. I changed up the lifting to supersets at a the same conditioning pace, twice a week on the upper and once on the lower, with some isolation deviations. An example upper workout with 8-12 reps max, while continuing the 1700-1800 calories daily with 1 gram/lb protein:

Set 1-Incline Bench/Flat Bench/Planks
Set 2-Pull Ups/Seated Rows/Hanging Leg Raises
Set 3-Weighted Dips/Pull Ups/Hanging Leg Raises
Set 4-Overhead Press/Upright Rows/Side Planks
Set 5-Weighted Dips/Cable Fly/Cable Decline Fly
Set 6-Split Rope Pull Downs/Underhand Straight Bar Pulldowns
Set 7-Bent Bar Curls/Barbell Curls

On the lower body it was similar to before but with some explosive exercises splashed in. By July I had dropped to 166 lbs and a 31" ab measurement. My measurements had me at about 16% body fat by military standards (not entirely accurate but what I had to go on). Also, my ab circumference was at 31" and my shoulders were at 47". The progress was great, but I lost size which I didn't have in abundance to begin with. I have always had stocky legs and a small upper body. Now my medium shirts were hanging off of me. I figured at that amount of lean mass I would need to be at about 155 lbs. to be really lean. So I decided to try to pack on mass, which is something that has eluded me for years, and part of the reason why I was a 6 months on/6 months off lifter. 

I spent three weeks doing basic heavy lifting, 8-10 rep max, 3 sets of compound and 1-2 sets of isolation, once per group per week (chest/tri, shoulder, back/bi, legs). I upped my calories to 2400-2700 per day, with 1.5-1 protein ratio, and allowed more carbs in, but only sweet potatoes, seeds/nuts, protein, etc. As an example, yesterday, I consumed 204 grams of protein, 190 grams of carbs and 104 grams of fat. My calories were at 2750 or thereabouts per My Fitness Pal. Two weeks ago, I switched to Hellraiser Training (for those who don't know, it focuses on negatives and is an @$$ kicker). 

I gave this long, drawn out explanation to get to my frustration. I have not seen any noticeable gains in my mass. I have, however, gained an inch on my abs and 4 lbs. It looks and feels like it has all went to my waist and I am starting to get frustrated at losing what I have worked my @$$ off for the last 8 months. 

I gave as many details as I could so it could be analyzed. Please tell me what I am missing to put on mass without gaining fat in such a hurry. Thanks in advance.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> In December last year I quit drinking, decided to get my marriage right again, and committed to staying with a workout regimen longer than 6 months, which I had done off and on since 2005. When I recommitted, I started at 192 lbs, at 67", with a 35" ab measurement (34" jeans).
> 
> For four months I focused on lifting at a conditioning pace. My primary workout, with deviations, would be upper twice weekly of push/pull and lower once weekly, with two to three weekly runs of about 3 miles. Example workouts were as follows, blistering pace with no resting, with 8-12 reps:
> 
> ...


Weight lifting is a marathon. Change takes a long time to occur, especially if you're natural. A 6 month bulk, with a 1lb aim per week gain, is a good goal to set. Drop your fats to about 50-55 grams. Keep your protein intake at about .7 to 1.0 per lb of weight and utilize the rest in carbs.

The nominal weight gains youre seeing now are mostly due to increased carb intake. Carbs hold water. Keep up the weight lifting and you'll notice strength gains. In turn, this will put muscle, as well as fat, on to your frame. In another 6 months, you up your proteins, drop carbs and lower fats some and bring in some cardio.

This is a very rudimentary break down but this will put you on the path of success. Do not be discouraged by weight gain. That's the whole purpose of gaining mass/size. 

If you feel like you're gaining to much weight to quickly, drop the calories 200-400 or so. I don't know what your maintenance levels are at at the moment. You can also keep the calories high and add 300cal cardio sessions 2-4 times a week. Either way, the only surefire way to put on muscle is to be in a caloric surplus. Inevitably, gaining fat on your body will have to occur simultaneously.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I get that, but after 6 weeks should I not see some gains somewhere besides my waist?

And you are saying my protein and fat consumption are currently too high?


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

After 6 weeks, at best, you'll have added 1 pound of muscle since it sounds like you're new to body building. As long as you do heavy, compound movements while bulking, you will put on muscle but you'll also put on fat. At best, as a beginner, you'll only put on about 1 pound per month. 

Your carbs are to low, protein and fats are to high. Up your carbs to about 300-325, fats to about 50-55 and protein to about 175. If you want to add more calories, add it in the carbs department. This is where you'll get your energy from(what you'll need to move heavier weights).


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

So closer to 3000 calories or thereabouts?


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

We're roughly the same size. I'm 5'7, currently 180lbs, doing a bulk cycle right now and I'm 3 months into it. I dropped to 161 and I'm pacing about 1 pound a week. My carbs are currently 300-325, protein is about 140 and my fats are around 30-40. I am on 2400 calories per day. I lift heavy 4 times a week. I hold fat in my love handles and lower back. I'm bulking to 190 lbs and around Dec. 1 of this year I'll start another cut down to about 170.

It could be your genetics place your fat in the same place. Give it time to develop brother.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> So closer to 3000 calories or thereabouts?



Closer to 2400 calories. 1 protein is 4 calories, 1 fat is 9 calories, 1 carb is 4 calories. Based on the numbers I provided its between 2350-2400 calories. This, in theory, based on a resting metabolic rate of about 1800, you're about 200-400 calories over maintenance level. This all depends on your metabolism and thyroid.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks for the tips. I will say this hell raiser regimen has me sore for the first time since January.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anyone use another site or app besides MFP? It's goals are not customizable as I would like.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

When you say 'heavy lifting', exactly what do you mean?

I know I had a good work out when I try to wash my hands (just pressing the soap together in my hands) and my chest burns so much I want to groan (during chests). When I do backs, if it's hard for me to remove my polo shirt, I know it's a good work out. When I move like an old woman climbing stairs during legs.

Your diet seems good. You need to lift heavy metal to do this. How close are you to bench pressing your body weight? If you don't heavy lift, you are not going to get gains. Hell Raiser may make you tired. It isn't about tired, it's about SORE. Your muscles need to BURN the next day or you aren't doing anything.

Try to drop your cardio or put it on days when you aren't weight training. It is silly to work your butt off, emptying your blood sugars and then RUN for half an hour so your body needs to scavenge from muscle and fat for calories. There goes your muscle gains.

Honestly, if you want to be an underwear model, okay. It is about being stronger than you were, not becoming a sex god for your wife. That is letting her control your goals.

There is no 'body type' which is going to fix your marriage and it's hard to tear down walls when the person on the other side keep building them. Don't let the frustrations of that go into your work out.

Protein, heavy weights to failure, less cardio. That is my suggestion.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

My marriage is on the mend in a great way. I should have been more clear on that. 

I can bench my body weight 5 reps. I can hit 10 reps on overhead presses with 70 lb dumbbells. I can get 12 dips with a 45 lb plate. Pull ups? Meh... work in progress...  

By heavy lifting I mean 60-80% or max. Some people think conditioning automatically means light weight and high reps. I don't do it that way.

I am plenty strong, and saw great gains in that area over the last 8 months.

I work out solo. It is hard to get those last 2-3 reps in that way, but I do what I can. I just don't get sore anymore (or didn't until HRT). And I am still seeing gains in strength.

Eta: anger fueled my workouts for a long time. That has changed for the better. It is a marathon, but my thread titled "Sh!t test" details that out and our improvements. My wife is attracted physically to me even when I am heavy. This gain in mass is all for me.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

If you are trying to do the bulk/cut suggestion, then follow the advice already given.

But in essence, one of the biggest mysteries is making gains while slimming down your waist. It just doesn't happen unless you are blessed.

The less you eat and/or the more the cardio you do, the less muscle you will gain. If you overdo the muscle gain, you put on fat. 

If you really want to push the limit: try a 6-7 meals-a-day plan with the same portioning of carbs/protien/fat. Morning, midmorning, lunch, afternoon, recovery, dinner, midnight. No more carbs for the rest of the day after afternoon meal. Eat a ton of protein. Make sure it is the good organic protein or else you are eating cancer. Drink tons and tons of water. Stay away from fruit or anything high in sugar. Take fish oil pills after certain meals. On non work out days, you have to eat less carbs than work out days. Limit your cardio--if you want gains. Get low fat/high protein powder. 

I had a buddy who put on 8 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks with no supplements, roids, etc. He just ate chicken and drank beer and put on mass but stayed cut = genetics. 

Goodluck


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## StevenD79 (Apr 7, 2014)

As already noted above,

you will not gain lean mass on a cut. 

Eat at maintenance plus 250 calories per day. How what and why will be academic for a long time. Although I eat healthy and clean as training for health and we are not 21 anymore 

Watch your waistline, you will gain a little fat, but just cut at the end of the bulk cycle. Rinse repeat.

I am on PPL rest PP. My legs respond quickly and besides the extra legs knackers me these days and I can do without it. Example of how we are all different. But on 3 sessions I do not respond as need frequency.

Each session aim for between 18 and 25 working sets. Your workout sets are not including abs/planks or in honestly any more than 3 sets of biceps and say 4 sets of triceps per week. Just not needed initially as worked secondarily on everything else, thus freeing time for compounds. 

Keep the intensity up and you will make it:-D

If the waist increases a little, increase cardio as a counter immediately.

For year 1 if you can sit at around 13-17% body fat and have gained 14lbs of lean you will be good. It is all experience and part finding what works for you.

If you are not getting bigger, stronger or recovering before the next session then your calories are likely to low or rest is required. If I am on a clean bulk then recovery is easy if calories are on. If not ....then recovery is slooooowww. 

Best of luck.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> In December last year I quit drinking, decided to get my marriage right again, and committed to staying with a workout regimen longer than 6 months, which I had done off and on since 2005. When I recommitted, I started at 192 lbs, at 67", with a 35" ab measurement (34" jeans).
> 
> For four months I focused on lifting at a conditioning pace. My primary workout, with deviations, would be upper twice weekly of push/pull and lower once weekly, with two to three weekly runs of about 3 miles. Example workouts were as follows, blistering pace with no resting, with 8-12 reps:
> 
> ...


Your training template sounds a little too advanced for your level.
Based on your stats , your body type sounds like an ectomorph , am I correct?

I think you are doing too many different exercises and most of them seem to be isolations.
If your goal is bulking , then you would put on extra size around your waistline , if you're an ectomorph , that extra size can be easily dropped. It comes down to diet.
I'm also ectomorph and I've moved from 180 lbs to 230 lbs in three years , and there were times I've had a little stomach. But when you're ectomorph you can decrease your body fat by manipulating your carbs and increasing cardio. However it would be tricky to do so while at the same time trying to gain muscle.

If your goal is to put on serious muscle in the shortest period ,then you need to drastically increase your calorific intake, and stick to the " big five " compound movements in the gym.

Deadlifts.
Barbell Rows.
Overhead Press.
Bench Press.
Barbell Squats.

And for variation, the weighted pull up and Dips. 
Go easy on the cardio, 15 mins max before or after working out.

Go as heavy as you can using linear progression.

Your height and waistline are the same as mine , that's why I think you're an ectomorph .

Increase your calorific intake , I try to keep mine at 4000 calories / day . Consuming lots of milk everyday helped tremendously.
Google " GOMAD."
Consume lots of water, it helps keep your body ( muscles ) hydrated.

Rest is important , eight hours of sleep min , especially after workouts , cut down on the alcohol and smoking.

When you have plateaued , you can experiment with other movements , but keep the " big five " compound movements as your base. And adjust your diet accordingly.
As for protein intake , stick with whole foods as much as possible , use protein powders only immediately after working out and just before bedtime in the night.

Remember your micronutrients , ( vitamins ) . Fish oils ( omegas ) and also creatine.

Just stick with the basics , until you see progress.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

everyone's body responds differently, but for me, I need to lift a weight heavy enough that I can only do 8 reps. That seems to be heavy enough to cause the muscles to grow.

If I can do 15 reps at a weight, it is basically only a maintenance weight, it will not grow any muscles in me.

One key I also use when using any sort of cardio machine, is to NEVER hold on. Like you are on a stair climber, do not hold onto any handrails, force your body to balance itself...it activates all the core muscles that way.

another tip, slower/deeper movements with perfect form and slightly lighter weights win every day over trying to cheat/jerk with heavier weights.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

murphy5 said:


> everyone's body responds differently, but for me, I need to lift a weight heavy enough that I can only do 8 reps. That seems to be heavy enough to cause the muscles to grow.
> 
> If I can do 15 reps at a weight, it is basically only a maintenance weight, it will not grow any muscles in me.
> 
> ...


Same here with me.
My body only responds to crazy weights and within the 8 - 10 rep range.
The heavier I go , I lower the rep range down to 5 especially on compounds like deadlifts.

For eg,15 reps is my warm up set. I start with 250lbs @ 15 rep for my deadlift and max out around 550lbs @ 3 - 4 reps, on a good day.

I usually do deadlifts first on my back day, and when I hit a 550 lb max, I'll only have energy left for a few more exercises.
Heavy rows [ aprox 250lbs ], hammer strength pullovers and either cable rows or lat pull down as a finisher.

But what I've found is that my calorific intake must constantly exceed a certain amount for energy to lift, post workout recovery and growth.

Of course there are cycles where I deload and start again.


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## old red (Jul 26, 2014)

research the bill starr 5x5 routine. it is a program for american college football players to bulk up during the off season. it was devised for natural athletes, ie for those not on steroids. it is also very simple to follow. kettlebells are also excellent. research the strongfirst web site, steve cotter, steve maxwell and lauren brooks. they offer some good advice for free on the web.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> My calories were at 2750 or thereabouts per My Fitness Pal.


Not NEARLY enough calories, according to my SO who was a national StrongMan, PowerLifter, and Bodybuilding competitor. He says you are burning FAR MORE calories than you realize, due to the "after burn."

In fact, I am a 5'5", 130 lb woman (I lift heavy 3 times/week) and I eat nearly the same calories as you. On average, I consume 2500-3000 calories per day. My weight hasn't changed in years.

Your metabolism is stoked from all the workouts; you are churning through those calories before you even eat them!!

You need to be closer to *3700-4000* calories (clean, wholesome food, not junk food) to make real gains.

My SO holds many national titles in the fitness world. He knows his stuff


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



happy as a clam said:


> Not NEARLY enough calories, according to my SO who was a national StrongMan, PowerLifter, and Bodybuilding competitor. He says you are burning FAR MORE calories than you realize, due to the "after burn."
> 
> In fact, I am a 5'5", 130 lb woman (I lift heavy 3 times/week) and I eat nearly the same calories as you. On average, I consume 2500-3000 calories per day. My weight hasn't changed in years.
> 
> ...


The only reason I am skeptical of this is because I have gained an inch on my ab measurement. How could I be gaining fat if I was not netting calories.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



old red said:


> research the bill starr 5x5 routine. it is a program for american college football players to bulk up during the off season. it was devised for natural athletes, ie for those not on steroids. it is also very simple to follow. kettlebells are also excellent. research the strongfirst web site, steve cotter, steve maxwell and lauren brooks. they offer some good advice for free on the web.


Will do. Thank you.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> The only reason I am skeptical of this is because I have gained an inch on my ab measurement. How could I be gaining fat if I was not netting calories.


Your abs are comprised of muscle too... obliques, transversus, rectus abdominus, etc. Just because your waist increases by an inch, doesn't mean it's FAT.

Trust me, you are not eating enough calories.

My very-lean, 6' tall son gained *9 lbs* of muscle over the summer following a clean, high-calorie, power-lifting regimen. He went from 180 to 189 in 13 weeks. We know it is muscle, not fat, because he is tracking it all through a BodPod machine.

He actually gained 11 pounds, lost 2 pounds of fat, for a net gain of 9 pounds of muscle.

He is eating around 4,000 calories per day.

Here is a sample of his menu:

Breakfast: 3-4 eggs, 1/2 cup egg whites, oatmeal, walnuts, flax seed oil, protein powder

Snack 1: 6 ozs. chicken, sweet potato, broccoli, protein powder, almonds

Lunch: 6 ozs. salmon, brown rice, HUGE salad (mixing bowl size), fruit

Snack 2: 4-6 ozs. lean flank steak, HUGE pile of veggies, protein powder

Dinner: Ground turkey, beef, chicken or tofu, HUGE pile of veggies, a whole spaghetti squash or brown rice

Snack 3: HUGE protein smoothie filled with banana, papaya, plain yogurt, protein powder

Are you eating this much food?

*Muscle requires FUEL to "grow". You simply CANNOT be in a calorie deficit AND grow muscle at the same time (with the exception of muscle-memory which brings you back to your "status-quo.")*


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)




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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Here is my best recommendation if you want to TRANSFORM your body. From Tom Venuto (all-natural bodybuilder and competitor, NO steroids)

Best book, hands down, on building muscle and burning fat, _Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle._

http://www.amazon.com/Burn-Fat-Feed-Muscle-Transform/dp/0804137846


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


>


Never seen it before, but this is at least a 14-pack. Wow. Impressed, AR!!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



Almostrecovered said:


>


Lol.

Three more weeks and I will be totally ripped. Beefcake!


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> I gave as many details as I could so it could be analyzed. Please tell me what I am missing to put on mass without gaining fat in such a hurry. Thanks in advance.


Welcome to my world. I absolutely cannot gain significant mass without also gaining fat. To be honest, I don't know anyone who can in real life. Most of the bigger guys I know have a gut, they bulk up and then cut down to their target BF% and lose some of their gains in the process. Two steps forward, one step back.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



happy as a clam said:


> Your abs are comprised of muscle too... obliques, transversus, rectus abdominus, etc. Just because your waist increases by an inch, doesn't mean it's FAT.
> 
> Trust me, you are not eating enough calories.
> 
> ...


Pre workout and post workout breakfasts, lunch and dinner, yes. In between snacks are almonds/other nuts, tuna, etc. and protein powder


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> I can bench my body weight 5 reps. I can hit 10 reps on overhead presses with 70 lb dumbbells. I can get 12 dips with a 45 lb plate. Pull ups? Meh... work in progress...


That's interesting, I'm a little below you strength wise, and maybe about 10 lbs lighter if you're 166, but I knock out pull ups like nobody's business. I have to do weighted pull ups (25lb) or I'll pull into the low 20s (overhand, medium grip).

Pull ups are awesome. It's dips I hate. lol


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Sounds like your waistline is bothering you the most. 

What is your waistline currently at? (you started out 34").


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Most of the bigger guys I know have a gut, *they bulk up and then cut down to their target BF%* and lose some of their gains in the process. Two steps forward, one step back.


This is completely correct! It is IMPOSSIBLE to be in a calorie deficit (fat burning) and a calorie surplus (building muscle) AT THE SAME TIME.

Sure, you can trim down and look more cut (even have slight muscle gain due to muscle memory) but this is a short ride, indeed.

That's why ALL professional fitness dudes EAT, lift, and bulk up, then turn around and CUT the excess fat to "reveal" their gains.

It really comes down to calories in, calories out. You simply cannot do BOTH at the same time. I spent a lifetime trying, doesn't work. It was ONLY after I made a conscious effort to add muscle first, then trim down, did I see the real transformation. Remember, muscle is _metabolically active_ whereas fat is not, so after adding all that new muscle it will help you burn the fat with warp speed.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



jorgegene said:


> Sounds like your waistline is bothering you the most.
> 
> What is your waistline currently at? (you started out 34").


35" ab and 34" waist to 31" for both. Now I have gained an inch at the ab but the waist is still 31".


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



happy as a clam said:


> This is completely correct! It is IMPOSSIBLE to be in a calorie deficit (fat burning) and a calorie surplus (building muscle) AT THE SAME TIME.
> 
> Sure, you can trim down and look more cut (even have slight muscle gain due to muscle memory) but this is a short ride, indeed.
> 
> ...


I understand this clearly. I also know that for every one pound of muscle you gain, you burn 50 extra calories per day if you do nothing else but sit.

After 4 weeks of lifting for gains, I just expected to see not just a gain on my gut but also a gain in my shoulders, chest, etc. I still don't see it.


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## Cronos1247 (Sep 3, 2014)

I honestly didn't read all of the replies but just to chime in...

Weight gain is only going to be dictated by a caloric surplus, you eat more than you burn. There is no low reps builds more muscle than light weight high reps or vice versa, you essentially want to hit all muscle fiber types (I and II or Fast / Slow twitch) for optimal growth. 

-Caloric surplus
-Compound movements (mainly squat and deadlift)
-Auxiliary movements to support the main lifts
-I follow about a 90/10 rule when it comes to food choices, 90% whole "clean" foods and 10% from whatever I want as long as it calculates into my macro nutrients for the day.
-Protein I think you had mentioned you have in check, I keep 1.3-1.5 grams per lb of weight, at least 20% of my caloric intake from fat & use the rest into carbohydrates mostly.
-It's a marathon not a sprint, takes time to get there.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> After 4 weeks of lifting for gains, I just expected to see not just a gain on my gut but also a gain in my shoulders, chest, etc. I still don't see it.


Ahh... gotcha.

Remember, the "eye" can be very deceiving. Trust the science.

You may be one of those people that they call a "glorious finish"... all of a sudden it "clicks", the fat starts shedding, the muscle is revealed.

My only advice is track everything. Write it down, make sure your percentages are accurate (% protein, % fat, % carbs), try to get a body fat analysis as a baseline (Bod Pod or water-dunk test if you have access). 

Your waist is way down. So your abs are up an inch? Strong core.

I wish you the very best. I fought the scales, tape measures, "diets" for years. When I finally got it right, this was my end result -- not trying to boast, just showing that I burned enough fat and gained enough lean muscle to accomplish wide-grip, military-style pullups (3 sets of 10). Very proud of myself for a 45-year-old (at the time) woman. 

VERY proud of those lats, btw . I "ate my way to them" and "earned" 'em. 

View attachment 28761


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> 35" ab and 34" waist to 31" for both. Now I have gained an inch at the ab but the waist is still 31".


That sounds pretty good. What is your goal?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



jorgegene said:


> That sounds pretty good. What is your goal?


I would like to weigh in the 170 range at 10% body fat range. I figure that is about 15 lbs of muscle. 

I dont want to be huge. I want decent bulk that I can tone. Really, I have always been tremendously athletic my whole life but have never looked athletic. It has always frustrated me.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

How old are you?

Did I read that right [email protected]'7" or 67 years old?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

67" tall (5'7"), 39 years old.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Testosterone is always a option and makes it much easier to gain


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

T levels are on the high side of average for my age.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> 39" tall (3'3"), 67 years old.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You busted out a twin peaks pic. Took me back for a minute... lol


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

em htiw klaw eriF


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

There is no way on god's green earth you can attempt the type of workouts you're talking about, hoping to gain lean muscle mass, while only eating 1700-1800 calories. Good god, man.

* Use carbs right around your workouts, good carbs. Rice, sweet potatoes, honey. Lift heavy, compound movements.

* Use good fats to fuel yourself the rest of the time. Coconut oil, avocados, nuts.

* Consume a crapton of protein, as natural as possible. Protein shakes, et al, are in a pinch. Chicken, steak, fish, eggs.

* Get your green veggies: they're like the catalyst that keeps everything processing. Asparagus, brussel sprouts, spinach, e.g.

* Get a lot of sleep. Seriously. Sleep.

Listen to your body. How do you feel? Are you sore for prolonged periods after your workouts? Is your performance keeping up, are you lifting more, running faster? How you look, how your body is composed, is largely determined by genetics. Some people will never have a six-pack. Aim to FEEL GREAT, and PERFORM WELL. You WILL look good, if so, just maybe not exactly like you wish you did, but oh well.

<-- put on 14# of lean muscle in six months doing Crossfit, only lost 1# of body fat, and couldn't care less


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Large copious amounts of steroids in that pic so nice  

Agree with the calorie comment it's a very slow process to add real muscle and not water.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Ha ha  if you think natural bodybuilding doesn't have people who abuse you are loco!!

Two relatives that professional bodybuilding one female and one male. Both have been on the cover of Ironman magazine.

Your friend uses that's all


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OhGeesh said:


> Your friend uses that's all


P.S. My "friend" happens to have a pretty serious congenital heart condition, monitored constantly by his cardiologist. I know for a fact he doesn't "use"...

Your comments are pretty "heartless"...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



OhGeesh said:


> Ha ha  if you think natural bodybuilding doesn't have people who abuse you are loco!!
> 
> Two relatives that professional bodybuilding one female and one male. Both have been on the cover of Ironman magazine.
> 
> Your friend uses that's all


Let's keep this constructive. Nobody has any idea what happens beyond the typing in these threads, so let's give people the benefit of the doubt.

I for one believe her.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Well now I know how to tick off Happy as a clam


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Editing to add:

I just deleted several posts in this thread, so as not to "thread jack" farsidejunky's otherwise very constructive post.

My comments were certainly made in good faith, but it's never constructive or beneficial when another poster comes along accusing people of things that are not true.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Farside, I'm following this thread with interest, as I'm in a muscle building cycle currently. I've seen some fairly good results, but, like you I chafe at putting on extra non-muscle weight. I wouldn't mind so much if it went to my butt or thighs, but the first place I gain is my middle, and I really hate that. 

I'm doing pretty much all heavy compound lifts with the barbell, plus an extra day of only glute work because I wanna big butt 

I rarely do cardio-only sessions, but I usually work in a 10-20 minute crossfit met-con workout at the end of every lifting session to hit a muscle group that I didn't focus on that day. So if it was a chest and back day, I'll do a met-con heavy with some sort of squat/overhead press combo. It's a leg day, my met con might have handstand push ups and dips, or pull ups and snatches. I usually work planks and L-sits to most met-cons. 

I've seen some decent gains in the past six weeks, but was struggling really hard with recovery. Added a post-workout shake and that seems to be helping. I'm so lazy about tracking my calories, though. Even though I'm paleo, I probably could do with less carbs. I love fruit.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> I wish you the very best. I fought the scales, tape measures, "diets" for years. When I finally got it right, this was my end result -- not trying to boast, just showing that I burned enough fat and gained enough lean muscle to accomplish wide-grip, military-style pullups (3 sets of 10). Very proud of myself for a 45-year-old (at the time) woman.
> 
> VERY proud of those lats, btw . I "ate my way to them" and "earned" 'em.
> 
> View attachment 28761


Any tips to develop lats? Definitely my achilles heel at the moment, as I've spent the past year rebuilding from a shoulder impingement. I'm back to full ROM and trying to work up to a set of five strict pull ups (I can kip a couple out, but that's as good as it gets, and I rely way to much on bicep strength to ge me there.)

I do dedicated lat day 1-2 x a week, with sets of rows and banded pulls and other lat work another 2-3 days a week.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



changedbeliefs said:


> There is no way on god's green earth you can attempt the type of workouts you're talking about, hoping to gain lean muscle mass, while only eating 1700-1800 calories. Good god, man.
> 
> * Use carbs right around your workouts, good carbs. Rice, sweet potatoes, honey. Lift heavy, compound movements.
> 
> ...


Cb:

At that time I was only concerned with fat loss, not gains.

I am not sore often. Sometimes tired. I was absolutely gassed at times when at 1800 calories, but my workouts are not nearly as challenging now that I am not at the blistering conditioning pace of Dec-Jul.

My performance has improved. I just don't see my looks changing anywhere but on my gut.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



GettingIt said:


> Farside, I'm following this thread with interest, as I'm in a muscle building cycle currently. I've seen some fairly good results, but, like you I chafe at putting on extra non-muscle weight. I wouldn't mind so much if it went to my butt or thighs, but the first place I gain is my middle, and I really hate that.
> 
> I'm doing pretty much all heavy compound lifts with the barbell, plus an extra day of only glute work because I wanna big butt
> 
> ...


GI:

Funny how it never goes where you want it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> When I finally got it right, this was my end result -- not trying to boast, just showing that I burned enough fat and gained enough lean muscle to accomplish wide-grip, military-style pullups (3 sets of 10).


When I grow up, I want to be just like you.

Brag on, your bod is slammin.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

You are going to need to EAT if you want to grow. Sure, if you want to add muscle, you will add some fluff. You can minimize the fluff if you incorporate HIIT to your program. However, you will have fluff with a caloric surplus. 

That is why you do bulk cycles and cut cycles.

I am in prep for my next show. I am currently 5'10 and sitting at 198 lbs. I have not been measured for body fat in a few weeks, but I am definitely sub 7% and possibly closer to 5%. Show is 10 weeks out.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> *Any tips to develop lats?* Definitely my achilles heel at the moment, as I've spent the past year rebuilding from a shoulder impingement.


Lat pulldown machine, dumbbell rows, seated row machine... but *the thing that helped the most* was assisted pull-ups -- someone assists you by holding your shins/ankles as you pull yourself up. Takes about a third of your weight off but still allows you to do the hard work. For me, this was FAR more effective than using the assisted pull-up machine because, unlike the machine, the person spotting you can adjust how much weight they are holding depending on how strong you are pulling. Also, if you're a guy, take your shirt off or wear a tank top so your spotter can see your back muscles and tell you whether you are _driving yourself up_ with your lats, or _muscling your way up_ with your biceps!

Also used a T-row bar like this:












GettingIt said:


> I do dedicated lat day 1-2 x a week, with sets of rows and banded pulls and other lat work another 2-3 days a week.


I only did lats one day per week... I found too many lat workouts actually made them too fatigued to do the hard work on pull-up day. That was just my experience though. My workouts are:

Monday - chest, shoulders, triceps
Wednesday - legs, glutes, abs
Friday - back, biceps

On back and bi day, do your assisted pull-ups FIRST, otherwise you will never get through them!

Also, I am a BIG BELIEVER in rest/recovery days. As you can see, I only hit each body part hard (and I mean HARD!) 1 day per week. When I cut my workouts back from 5 days to 3 days per week, I saw much better gains. As I'm sure you know, muscles rebuild and repair on rest days. On my "off" days, I really focused on eating well and loading up for the next day's workout. Just my 2 cents...

(Just want to add that my SO still trains competitors for Strong Man and bodybuilding -- they ONLY ever do a 3-day split. On their "off" days they do cardio (moderate pace) and light calisthenics; no work at the gym on those days.)


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Lat pulldown machine, dumbbell rows, seated row machine... but *the thing that helped the most* was assisted pull-ups -- someone assists you by holding your shins/ankles as you pull yourself up. Takes about a third of your weight off but still allows you to do the hard work. For me, this was FAR more effective than using the assisted pull-up machine because, unlike the machine, the person spotting you can adjust how much weight they are holding depending on how strong you are pulling. Also, if you're a guy, take your shirt off or wear a tank top so your spotter can see your back muscles and tell you whether you are _driving yourself up_ with your lats, or _muscling your way up_ with your biceps!
> 
> Also used a T-row bar like this:
> 
> ...


I've doing all the exercises you mention. I rarely have a partner/coach to spot me, so I've been using bands to assist (I hate the assisted pull up machine, too.) A trainer at my xfit gym suggested I do more negatives work, but that really bothers my epicondylitis so I skimp on them. 

I've been considering switching from bent over barbell rows to T-bar rows, so I'll take your suggestion and give that a try, too.

I lift 3-4 days a week; recovery has become a bigger focus for me, too. Like I mentioned before, I commonly hit each muscle group once every week, occasionally twice in a ten day rotation. I'm going to take a closer look at my lat work outs and see if I can increase the days between them and up the intensity. 

Thanks happy, and sorry for the threadjack, farside!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

GI:

Feel free. Others asking questions gives us all the ability to learn.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Ahh... gotcha.
> 
> Remember, the "eye" can be very deceiving. Trust the science.
> 
> ...


Hubba hubba 

In best Joey from friends voice "how u doing "?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Two posters have indicated problems with protein powders. One said to not use them at all while another said to use them only in a pinch.

I use them before/after workouts, supplementing between meals, and slow digesting protein right before bed.

What is the problem with protein powders?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Didn't read past the first page but just wanted to throw my $.02 in. If you're doing something for 6 weeks and not seeing results, try changing something.

Bodies adapt quickly, you need to change your routine sometimes to shock your body. Try some gymnastics or boxing or grappling for a few workouts. Maybe do 2 weeks where you do all body weight workouts (burpees, mountain climbers, squat thrusts, pushups, pullups, situps, etc). Mix in some Yoga to your routine.

Also, suggest cutting out the long distance running and replace it with high intensity sprints. In addition to new evidence that sprint workouts are better for endurance, long distance will cannabilize your muscle mass (compare an olympic sprinter to an olympic steeplechaser).


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

COguy said:


> *Also, suggest cutting out the long distance running* and replace it with high intensity sprints. In addition to new evidence that sprint workouts are better for endurance, *long distance will cannabilize your muscle mass* (compare an olympic sprinter to an olympic steeplechaser).


Ooops... I completely missed this in the original post!

FSJ, I completely agree -- I would cut out the 3 mile runs. I burned more fat and built more muscle when I went for long, moderately paced walks on my "off" days. Not brisk walks, just normal like walking a dog.

There's the whole argument -- what is the best heart "zone" for fat burning? A 3-mile run is mostly burning carbs at first, then as COguy correctly says, begins to cannibalize muscle.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> I understand this clearly. I also know that for every one pound of muscle you gain, you burn 50 extra calories per day if you do nothing else but sit.
> 
> After 4 weeks of lifting for gains, I just expected to see not just a gain on my gut but also a gain in my shoulders, chest, etc. I still don't see it.


I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I've been told - one is that you can get stronger without adding much muscle size. Your body is going to optimize what it already has before adding muscle mass. From your body's perspective, muscle is a liability requiring more food to support; it really doesn't want to spend to build something that it might not be able to support later... I think this is also why bulking comes with fat gains - its like an insurance policy. It's planning for calorie shortages with the notion they are more likely to occur as a result of having this increased burden of muscle. If there's a calorie shortage it doesn't want to have to eat the muscle it just built. The body's efficiency kinda works against us there, and your low calorie diet would probably be sending a signal that food is relatively scarce - your bodies translation: avoid building new things, and store fat whenever possible. So eat more and spread it out.

Another possibility for why you see waist fat and not shoulder muscle gain is that a pound of muscle is more dense than a pound of fat - so it takes up more space and is going to show more readily.

Lastly, be sure you're getting decent sleep and resting muscles for at least a day. If you break them down again before they have a chance to rebuild, you'll often remain stagnant.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

COguy said:


> Also, suggest cutting out the long distance running and replace it with high intensity sprints. In addition to new evidence that sprint workouts are better for endurance, long distance will cannabilize your muscle mass (compare an olympic sprinter to an olympic steeplechaser).


I gained next to nothing last year because I was preparing for and running a lot of long distance races, even though I was eating well and lifting like usual - even seeing slow progress in the weight I was lifting.

In the past I ran sprints (before I knew anything about the benefits of interval training). I ran them just because for me, sprinting was more fun than long steady state running slogs. Turns out it was much easier to put on muscle when I was sprinting than when I'm long distance running. I'd do like a 100 m and then walk/recover/calm, then another... just 4-6 times.

I've since read a lot of benefits to doing a few short high intensity sprints over long sustained speed runs. Bonus!


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

to re-iterate what other posters have said. For my current lifting goals one exercise I am using is curls. I started at 5 x 10 reps at 50 pounds and have to go up about 10 pounds per month to keep gaining muscle size. After 6 weeks at 50, I noticed I had plataued, now I add 10 pounds and when 10 reps becomes easy, I add 10 more. Up to 90 next time I lift (Sunday).


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Two posters have indicated problems with protein powders. One said to not use them at all while another said to use them only in a pinch.
> 
> I use them before/after workouts, supplementing between meals, and slow digesting protein right before bed.
> 
> What is the problem with protein powders?


There's no "problem" with them, you just need to be cautious so as not to have them be your MAIN way to increase protein intake. That is, don't have five shakes a day and say that's how you're getting your 150-200g of protein. How you're supplementing, IMO, is perfect: post-workout boosts and casein to help you sleep/recover.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I'd drop the cardio, and you're doing too much. 

However, you should be gaining muscle. I'd take bi/weekly pics. 

Are your lifts going up? If so, you're probably putting on some muscle. If not, then you're not. 

I would do starting strength or even better, greyskull LP. 

A/B workouts, M/W/F alternating A and B. So it'll be A-b-a the first week and b-a-b the second

A: Benchpress 3 sets of 5 reps
Pendalay row3 sets of 5 reps
Squat 3 sets of 5 reps
Tricep isolation, 1-2 sets 10-12 reps

B: Military press/shoulder press 3x5 or 3 sets 6-8
pullups 3 sets
deadlift 1-2x5. If you can do them with proper form. If not, either high pulls or stiff legged dead lifts.
curl isolation, 1-2 sets 10-12 reps

Once you're considered an "intermediate" then move on to an upper/lower split or some other routine. 

Also, drop the running. Protein powders should be a supplement, not a replacement. Get 90% of your protein from meats. 

In the beginning, you should be gaining muscle even at maintenance. Noob gains they're called. That only lasts a couple months at most though, then you'll go nowhere without proper diet. 

Starting strength or greyskull, or even lean gains should be the only routines you need for 6 months to a year.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Two posters have indicated problems with protein powders. One said to not use them at all while another said to use them only in a pinch.
> 
> I use them before/after workouts, supplementing between meals, and slow digesting protein right before bed.
> 
> What is the problem with protein powders?


A lot of powders are filled with junk fillers. I try to supplement with protein powders less and less.

I eat as healthy as possible, and vary my work outs to go from heavy to light, and vary the workouts often. Also very important to do legs - these help spur growth for the rest of the body.

Other than that, slow and steady is the way to achieve good muscle growth. And not eating like crap.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What powders are on the "better" end of junk and filler additives?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> What powders are on the "better" end of junk and filler additives?


I use Teras Whey--organic, grass fed whey concentrate and not much else added. I use it for the protein boost right after a workout if I'm not going to eat right away. It's pretty tasty mixed with almond milk. Expensive, though. 

Amazon.com: Tera's Whey Organic Whey Protein, Dark Chocolate, 12 Ounce: Health & Personal Care


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

awake1 said:


> Are your lifts going up? If so, you're probably putting on some muscle. If not, then you're not.


This is the whole key. Gage yourself by whether you are increasing your weights every week or two. If you're not adding weights, you're just holding steady.

Lift heavy, or go home


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> What powders are on the "better" end of junk and filler additives?


ALL of the competitors I know SWEAR by "Designer" brand. (America's No. 1 Protein since 1993) Clean, pure whey, highly absorbable. http://www.gnc.com/Designer-Protein-Designer-Whey-Natural/product.jsp?productId=2811374 Sure, you can find powders with "more" protein per serving, but the key is -- is it DIGESTIBLE and ABSORBABLE?! Think of your protein receptors as a "lock and key"... if the key doesn't fit the lock, it's going to pass right through your system, undigested and un-utilized. Find a "pure" whey supplement -- again, I heartily recommend "Designer" brand. Fewer grams of protein than many of the "big gun" brands, but certainly ALL digestible. More bang for your buck. (And no, I do not work for or have ANY affiliation with Designer brand.)

As others have stated, *powders should not be your main source of protein*. But add a scoop to your oatmeal in the morning, drink a smoothie after your workouts including powder, low-fat plain yogurt, a banana, and some skim milk, maybe drink a scoop before bed.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anyone have an opinion on Syntha-6?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sounds like the name of a sex-bot


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> What powders are on the "better" end of junk and filler additives?


Ironically, I've asked dozens of the fittest body builders / personal trainers I've come across at the various gyms, and they all tell me they don't take supplements, and they eat natural and as healthy as possible.

It astounded the hell out of me... so I've moved away from protein shakes as much as possible.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Failing to Add Muscle - I Need Some Guidance (Long)*



Almostrecovered said:


> sounds like the name of a sex-bot


AR:

I don't know if there is a post I have seen from you that has not made me laugh... 

You are outta control, brother.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Anyone have an opinion on Syntha-6?


No opinion on Syntha (don't know anything about it) but go back and read my last post on Designer brand


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> sounds like the name of a sex-bot


Oh boy... I can see that the turtle is acting up again...

Forget the "like" button.... where is the "slap" button? Can I get a mod in here? 

:rofl:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Farside, some have already pointed you in the right direction. Look to the old pre-steroid body builder diets and regimens. Lots of meat, poultry, seafood, and mucho eggs supplemented with a shot glass of cod liver oil daily. Add in your greens and fruit. You can also use butter and coconut oil to pad the calories up to about 4000-4500 daily. If you're over 40 add 100 milligrams of DHEA. Keep the carbs down under 100 grams and you will have less fat gain during the mass building. 

Make sure you're getting a minimum of 9 hours sleep a night and cut all the activity except for the weight room. That means biking, running, "cardio" and everything else goes on vacation.

Concentrate on compound lifts and try to keep your sessions under 60 minutes. I'm a HIT guy currently, but back in the day I kept to this even when doing higher volume. Also experiment with different rep ranges. If you've got the ectomorph type, you might want to 12-15 reps with the weight going up 5-10% as you successfully achieve 15 reps with the given weight.

If you make these changes and still don't see progress in weight, reps, or size after a couple of weeks, start adding an extra rest day between workouts. Remember, the muscle isn't really built in the gym, it's built while resting. The gym just provides the stimulus. If you start tearing it all up again before the rebuilding from the last workout is complete, you get nowhere.

As your body fat gets up over 15%, it's time to cut again. Once you're back to 9 or 10%, resume the mass building process.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

For those that posted here, thank you for the advice. I have definitely added muscle and size, plus I am seeing some places that bulge and pop when lifting that were not there before. Strength has also improved, which is good because I had hit a gain plateau in that department. Thank you H3ll Raiser Training. Good stuff.

However...

I have also earned a muffin top to go with it. I am up to 173 (from 164) since starting this cycle and am up to about 20% body fat by military standards (I know, not the most accurate but you use what you have).

Time to lean out. Unlike last time, I do not want to lose a bunch of muscle when I do it this time. I am estimating that to be at 10% body fat I will need to trim about 20 lbs, although that may be off. 

What do my macros need to look like? Total calories? HIIT sounds like it would be right up my alley. Any sound links? Any other suggested workout programs? Frequency?

Current stats:
Age-39
Height-5'7"
Weight-173
Body Fat-20% (by military standards)
Body type-Ectomorph

ETA: I also found out last week I have low T. I am increasing the intake of healthy fats to help boost it so the macros need to try to take that into account.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Drop down to 4 to 5 reps with more weight. it's better to pick a weight that you can't finish on the fourth or fifth, then picking a weight where you can get through your entire set of 12.

2 sets of that. Then on the third Go down 20 or thirty pounds and just do as many as you can. Don't count them. Just do them.

It feels like your not getting anywhere, but by week three you'll be going up 5 to ten pounds per set, and sometimes every week after that. Sometimes not. Until you hit your max, That is. Then...there's the 'roids, lol.

It is a marathon. Just keep doing it. Don't think so much about size. I've seen scrawny assed guys that could bench two of me. It's all about genetics. 

But don't forget your cardio workouts somewhere in your week.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Of course. The above workout is strictly for strength gain bulking. I still do workouts with 12 reps when I want more controlled, slower growth.

I'm not sure it will work for everyone. Each of us is different. Does good for me, though.


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## sdc2399 (Jul 6, 2014)

I am same height as you and about 150lbs. When cutting body fat I stay around 2,000-2,200 calories a day and really limit simple carbs. 
My weightlifting doesn't differ much when bulking or cutting, maybe slightly higher weight and lower reps when cutting. 
HIIT is great for cutting body fat and I really believe it helps conserve the muscle. I also do some cardio but HIIT seems to be the most effective for me.
I don't take many supplements but do take green tea extract when cutting to up metabolism and help repair muscle. 
If you have an account on bodybuilding.com, my username is 13seth. Tons of good info on there.
Also, found that intermittent fasting worked extremely well for helping me eat the right foods with my lifestyle and after a couple weeks of getting use to it I had more energy than ever. Will probably do this every time I cut.


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