# Open Marriage



## rachel66 (Nov 24, 2013)

I always feel guilty discussing it but my husband and I have had an open marriage for almost 8 years. He actually suggested that I find a partner due to health problems that rendered him almost impotent for a while. I've always had a very strong sex drive but the idea floored me and at first I thought he was joking but I reluctantly agreed to post an ad on an adult site and we met a man who was widowed and we've been in the relationship for most of the last eight years. My husband recovered and we're sexually active again but we've continued in this lifestyle although my husband has no interest in other women. I wouldn't recommend this but it's working for us so far.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Well it's whatever floats your boat. And I can see in certain circumstances such as yours it might work.

But it is generally agreed to be a bad thing here as there are so many of these things that end up in tears.

Has the widowed man ever hinted he would like to take it further?

Have you felt any attachment to the widower?

I do hope this is not some cuckold fantasy where he watches etc.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If it works for you, it works. Our relationship has been open since we met (we're both so inclined), though most of the time we've been together we haven't done much about it. We have all the sex we want together, but sometimes variety is nice. We were in a poly relationship for a few years at the beginning, did the monogamy thing for 6 years or so, got into swinging for a few years, and since then I've had a long-term FWB until this summer. It's all been good and hasn't caused any problems - quite the contrary. Maybe we'll do the monogamy thing again for a while.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

rachel66 said:


> I always feel guilty discussing it but my husband and I have had an open marriage for almost 8 years. He actually suggested that I find a partner due to health problems that rendered him almost impotent for a while. I've always had a very strong sex drive but the idea floored me and at first I thought he was joking but I reluctantly agreed to post an ad on an adult site and we met a man who was widowed and we've been in the relationship for most of the last eight years. My husband recovered and we're sexually active again but we've continued in this lifestyle although my husband has no interest in other women. I wouldn't recommend this but it's working for us so far.



Your hubby should of discussed with you toys, male strap on, supplements, vibrators for you, etc. Lots of that available. If he was impotent for 8 years, he could of literally gave you oral with a vib at the same, and orgasms galore for you. He could of even wore a male strap on and still had PIV sex with you. And when he recovered, no more strap on and now you have the real deal again. But you guys decided to have sex with another man, adultery, and now your hubby is healthy and wants sex with you again, while you are still having the physical sex with this other man?! If you want to have sex with other people, why get married? Defeats the purpose.....


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Rachel66 i'm glad this has worked for you all.

Can I ask how you feel about the widow? Do you feel any love for him?
How does he feel about you?
Do you feel bonded to him.

I find it a very curious situation... it sure isn't the norm. 

Please ignore hate filled replies... people come here with suitcase fulls of baggage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

rachel66 said:


> I wouldn't recommend this but it's working for us so far.


Please expand on your thought with regard to not recommending this lifestyle.

In fact I'm kind of curious as to were the guilt comes from since this is...after all open...or is it


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

waiwera said:


> Please ignore hate filled replies... people come here with suitcase fulls of baggage.


I don't even have a suitcase.
I quess if you can call carring my cloths in a trash bag when I travel "baggage"...well then I guess I do


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

You say this is working for you and your husband. Not sure why you posted this. Is there a problem you're having?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Cubby said:


> You say this is working for you and your husband. Not sure why you posted this. Is there a problem you're having?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was wondering the same thing. Was there a question for us to help answer.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't think its not so much about OP asking a question as much as it is about us asking a question.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Not really an open marriage. Close, but it actually a cuckold relationship.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

the guy said:


> I don't even have a suitcase.
> I quess if you can call carring my cloths in a trash bag when I travel "baggage"...well then I guess I do


Lol... the post I was referring to has been removed... it was mean and had name calling in it etc...

They would have needed a shipping container for their emotional baggage! 
Way OTT.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

rachel66 said:


> I wouldn't recommend this but it's working for us so far.




I just don't see this working in a long-term marriage, but heck whatever... If it still works then great. 

Only 2 posts? Is this still true? Are you still active here? :scratchhead:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> Your hubby should of discussed with you toys, male strap on, supplements, vibrators for you, etc. Lots of that available. If he was impotent for 8 years, he could of literally gave you oral with a vib at the same, and orgasms galore for you. He could of even wore a male strap on and still had PIV sex with you. And when he recovered, no more strap on and now you have the real deal again. But you guys decided to have sex with another man, adultery, and now your hubby is healthy and wants sex with you again, while you are still having the physical sex with this other man?! If you want to have sex with other people, why get married? Defeats the purpose.....



Not everyone has the same "purpose" in marriage.


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## I like cake (Apr 30, 2014)

I really want to stress that marriage should be an agreement between 2 people. What exactly that agreement is, is up to them and only them. We don't marry in order to fulfil society's or family's goals. So if 2 people choose to have an open marriage, then that is up to them, as long as they keep communicating with each other, and have respect and care for each other. 

My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him? This created a big problem, with him telling me that I should do it sometimes, for him... trying to get me to commit to a certain number of times per month... well that's not going to work for me, I'm afraid. Duty sex? That will completely erode my self-respect, respect for him, and foster resentment. 

So then eventually he suggested staying together and being a normal couple, but with the right to have sex with others as we like.

At first I said no way, that's not right. But then gradually I realised that, after years of trying, we weren't going to get our own sex life back on track, so decided that eliminating the one cause of argument from our marriage would make it stronger. I reasoned that we are best friends (or were before lack of sex intervened), we have similar ideas and goals for the future, and we both love our children like crazy, and don't want to live apart from them or force each other to do so. 

When I went to him to accept his proposal, he agreed very readily. I felt a weight lift from my shoulders, and realised that this WAS the right thing. 

But a couple of weeks later he came and said that he couldn't go through with it, though he'd got very close, and could we try again? I felt nervous, and worried that this would lead us into arguments again. He said "Well, let's say that sex would be good, but no sex is OK too. Whatever. Let's just not be unfaithful." 

I felt reassured. But over the next couple of months he gradually started trying to persuade me more and more, and I just didn't want it. And so he got angry. 

I understand that it must be frustrating and humiliating, I do. But I can't force myself. He now hasn't spoken to me AT ALL for several months. He tries to pretend that I'm not there, never looks at me, acknowledges that I've spoken, answers my questions. Which is setting an awful example and bad atmosphere for our children, isn't it? 

What to do? I don't want him living alone - I care for him. I don't want to separate him from his kids, as they're as close to him as they are to me. So I'll gladly take an open marriage over no marriage. My reasoning is that if we have several good things, why let one bad thing override them?

But he says no, he's "accepted that he'll have to live alone." Accepted?? Decided for himself!

I wish I could make him see that he's threatening to throw away family life, companionship, someone to grow old with and care for each other... for sex. Sex that I'm allowing him to get elsewhere.

What can I say to him? What can I do? It's nearing the point where I give up. I can't continue living with someone who ignores me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I like cake said:


> I really want to stress that marriage should be an agreement between 2 people. What exactly that agreement is, is up to them and only them. We don't marry in order to fulfil society's or family's goals. So if 2 people choose to have an open marriage, then that is up to them, as long as they keep communicating with each other, and have respect and care for each other.
> 
> My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him? This created a big problem, with him telling me that I should do it sometimes, for him... trying to get me to commit to a certain number of times per month... well that's not going to work for me, I'm afraid. Duty sex? That will completely erode my self-respect, respect for him, and foster resentment.
> 
> ...


So, in your arrangement, it would be ok for him to go outside, but not you right? Since you're the one breaking unilaterally deciding on a sexless marriage, he's the one justified in seeking it elsewhere.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

To the op, I see nothing wrong with your arrangement if everyone is happy. I'm in a traditional sexless marriage and anything has to be better than this


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I like cake said:


> What can I say to him? What can I do? It's nearing the point where I give up. I can't continue living with someone who ignores me.


There's nothing you can say.

He wants sex with his wife, it's a major part of the reason he married "You".

He'll never get around this or past this.

You either live together sexless and make his life miserable or you divorce.

There is no compromise and his failure to **** another woman is evidence for the truth of this.

Personally if I were you I'd get some counselling because you don't seem to realize what this man is willing to lose to keep your family together at his own personal emotional expense.

You're not likely to ever find another man who cares about you on this level.

If you really love him, won't try to fix this, and he won't divorce, you should file for his sake.
Let him find someone compatible with him so he can maybe have the relationship needs.

This story breaks my heart

Edit:
Maybe it's not you, maybe he knows the only way is divorce but can't leave his kids.
That's actually more likely.
Still the type of marriage you want wouldn't be acceptable for me at all so I understand where he's coming from.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I'd like to add that while open relationships work for some people they are rare, very rare and your husband isn't one of those people.

I know this because he couldn't go through with it when it happened.
There are millions of guys who don't give a damn about their wives who would have taken your offer as a key to the candy store but he couldn't. 
He "couldn't" even when he tried.

You need to understand that people in general but men in particular form emotional connections through sex.

If he was to go through with it and establish a regular sexual partner it wouldn't be long before you were getting the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech, the pressure from the woman who then held his heart would have led to the end of your family.
This is almost a given when you consider how loyal he seems to be to the one he loves.

You really need to do some research into sexuality, especially male sexuality because you don't have the slightest idea of what you're doing to the man you claim to love.

You also have no idea of the danger you're putting your family in by asking him to find a lover.

Edit:



> I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him?


Are there men in your life you would have sex with if not for your marriage?

You're ID seems like it might be telling.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I like cake said:


> My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him? This created a big problem, with him telling me that I should do it sometimes, for him... trying to get me to commit to a certain number of times per month... well that's not going to work for me, I'm afraid. Duty sex? That will completely erode my self-respect, respect for him, and foster resentment.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


My question is what do you think that does for his own self-respect. Don't you think that just fosters resentment of you?

There are a lot of contradictions here. You don't want to have sex with him because for you it is an emotional thing but you are willing to let him have meaningless sex with other people. From another post of yours, you believe it is more of an emotional thing for women but you don't seem concerned that another woman might develop an emotional attachment to him. You need to feel love in order to have sex but you can't believe that he would throw away everything just because of sex, as if it is of little importance. You seem to believe that for him it is just a physical need but he obviously doesn't want someone else, he wants his own wife to love him. You can't stand the thought of being given an ultimatum but you give one of your own ... either 1) be celibate, 2) have meaningless sex with other people, something he doesn't want, or 3) throw every everything and live alone ... because of sex.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

I like cake said:


> I really want to stress that marriage should be an agreement between 2 people. What exactly that agreement is, is up to them and only them. We don't marry in order to fulfil society's or family's goals. So if 2 people choose to have an open marriage, then that is up to them, as long as they keep communicating with each other, and have respect and care for each other.
> 
> My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him? This created a big problem, with him telling me that I should do it sometimes, for him... trying to get me to commit to a certain number of times per month... well that's not going to work for me, I'm afraid. Duty sex? That will completely erode my self-respect, respect for him, and foster resentment.
> 
> ...




You said:
*"My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him?"*

I guess that is it. *You are off him. And once he actually concedes to having external sexual partners, you might / will rediscover your sexual passion – with others.

But you wouldn’t then have to bear the brunt of that decision, because it was by ‘mutual consent’.

Is that it?*



*Even if you wouldn’t have other sex partners, by outsourcing marital sex, you'd be cutting off the safe emotional branch you are sitting on.*

Beware, please.



Please don't torpedo what appears to be a good family and stable home.

Spread your legs with good grace now and then, Lady.
(to your husband).


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

rachel66 said:


> I always feel guilty discussing it but my husband and I have had an open marriage for almost 8 years. He actually suggested that I find a partner due to health problems that rendered him almost impotent for a while. I've always had a very strong sex drive but the idea floored me and at first I thought he was joking but I reluctantly agreed to post an ad on an adult site and we met a man who was widowed and we've been in the relationship for most of the last eight years. My husband recovered and we're sexually active again but we've continued in this lifestyle although my husband has no interest in other women. I wouldn't recommend this but it's working for us so far.



rachel:

what you have is not an open marriage, but a wittol / cuckold-hotwife arrangement -- a different species of sexual animal.


I guess *all of us must choose our (form of) love, and then, try to love our choices.*


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

When you stop having sex with your husband, bad outcomes happen,


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

okeydokie said:


> To the op, I see nothing wrong with your arrangement if everyone is happy. I'm in a traditional sexless marriage and anything has to be better than this


Distressingly this has certain common sense ring to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I find it a little odd that you will not live with someone who ignores you, yet you are fine with ignoring him sexually. What if he suggested an open emotional marriage in which you were fully free to get your emotional needs met by anyone except him? Would that make your marriage a fulfilling one? That's a good enough solution for him, but not for you? Selfish much?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

waiwera said:


> Rachel66 i'm glad this has worked for you all.
> 
> Can I ask how you feel about the widow? Do you feel any love for him?
> How does he feel about you?
> ...


One of the things I like about TAM is that you can come on here and simply let off steam. Very often simply 'talking' to other people is a great help...then come the suggestions/advice from other people who have been in the same boat as you.

However I have also found that you can be shot down fairly promptly.
Yes, on the whole, open marriages tend not to work. I applaud Rachel for coming on here and saying hers does.

If there is a sexual mismatch in a marriage sometimes one partner (the HD one) having (secret) safe sex outside the marriage can make the marriage better because the LD partner isnt under pressure and the HD partner doesn't feel bitter/resentful.

Life is not perfect. We all do things that we shouldn't; over speed, jump a red light, smoke the occasional joint, be 'economic with the truth' on a tax return, put a foot under an airline scale so it under reads our overwight bag, have that extra glass of wine etc.

Yes theft is wrong...but what if its a homeless person stealing a loaf of bread because he is hungry?

What I am trying to say is that we are all too quick to pass judgement without knowing all the facts.

If someone has an affair, is in an open marriage, steals a loaf of bread etc try to understand why before passing judgement.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

Some observations:

In general, comparing / equating infidelity with other breaches of law would be counter-productive.

Because:

*A)	Then it will be an admission that it too is a crime, not just an unjust choice. That will change the whole perspective.*

*B)	Suppose a US citizen says: I was not happy with the way my nation treated me / with the life I was allowed to have in the US, so I collaborated with Cuba. 

He will land in Gitmo.*

(Now, isn’t that technically comparable with a spouse not being happy with the married life / the way his or her spouse treats him or her / the life he or she has inside the family, and collaborating with another man or woman, who definitely is an enemy of the marriage?
– Though sometimes you hear a spouse saying that an external sexual source improved the marriage – but that usually is said by the spouse who has taken the external lover, and per se, grey).

C)	If we MUST compare infidelity with breaches of law, it would be trivializing the impact of infidelity (which is often life-altering), to compare it with insubstantial offenses such as jumping the queue, etc


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## Visexual (Nov 8, 2008)

Interesting thread. Too bad the OP hasn't been back though because I'd love to hear more from her..., and her husband.

A couple of posters suggested that she has a cuckold relationship and not an open marriage. Well, just because a husband invites another man into the marriage, it doesn't mean he's a ****. If he enjoys the man too, and isn't being humiliated or demeaned, then it's simply sharing a friend with his wife.

I've been the friend of a couple and valued them both as friends. And my wife and I have a friend that could easily become just such a friend to us if he wasn't married.


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## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes very interesting thread. I watched a nat geo show "Taboo" that shows marriage and situations like this. It can work, but no way can it work for me.

I want to love my partner exclusively, belong to each other 100%, mentally and physically.


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## homedepot (May 13, 2014)

I commend you for even admitting it. For the amount of cheaters in this world, I don't see how this can be any worse. At least he knows the truth and it was his idea. Same thing could be happening any way.

I hope it works out for you and Let no one judge you because there is a reason we are all on this site.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I like cake said:


> I really want to stress that marriage should be an agreement between 2 people. What exactly that agreement is, is up to them and only them. We don't marry in order to fulfil society's or family's goals. So if 2 people choose to have an open marriage, then that is up to them, as long as they keep communicating with each other, and have respect and care for each other.
> 
> My husband and I have had problems with sex. I gradually went completely off it - or perhaps him? This created a big problem, with him telling me that I should do it sometimes, for him... trying to get me to commit to a certain number of times per month... well that's not going to work for me, I'm afraid. Duty sex? That will completely erode my self-respect, respect for him, and foster resentment.
> 
> ...


The very fact that you minimize sex in a marriage is the reason why he should be allowed to leave. Sex is the ONLY reason to be married. He can get companionship from anybody. He should ONLY be getting sex from his wife.

Just let the man go.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

My wife is bisexual and wants other women, so our marriage is open. But not open to other guys. I am not bisexual.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

sinnister said:


> Sex is the ONLY reason to be married. He can get companionship from anybody. He should ONLY be getting sex from his wife.


I've long since thought, we should all fess up and admit, women get married so they can stop having every dude they run into begging them for sex, and they only have to fend off one specific guy. Men get married so they can stop chasing women for sex, and they can rope one woman into being obligated to give it.

However, that is completely coy, your statement is pretty much exactly opposite of truth. You really think the only reason people get married is just to lock down each other as sex partners??!? By and large, it goes completely against male biology (hunters, sow their wild oats....monogamy is NOT programmed into males) and females far more desire a constant comforting presence, provider presence, than a sexual partner. Why else do people actually get married? Religious reasons, in order to form a family unit, financial reasons....I could go on and on. The list essentially pairs directly up with, the reasons people struggle to decide to divorce when the actual personal side of the relationship (including the sex) deteriorates.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Coldie said:


> My wife is bisexual and wants other women, so our marriage is open. But not open to other guys. I am not bisexual.


Aren't you the guy who started the thread about you being ugly and your wife being hot? Now you admit your marriage is open? Why does that not surprise me?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Aren't you the guy who started the thread about you being ugly and your wife being hot? Now you admit your marriage is open? Why does that not surprise me?


Well if you would have read the thread you wouldn't have been surprised because in the original post I mention my wife and I have threesomes. I also have older threads that say the same.

Unsure of your point, but the answer to your questions are.... yes. I admit that we bring other women into our bedroom, not other men. I don't know if I ever said my wife was hot, I said does me being ugly make me appreciate my wife more. But I may have said she was hot, because I am very attracted to her.



> As a very ugly man with an average sized penis, depending on what race you are, I think my self image has kept me extremely faithful to my wife. Although we do have threesomes with other women, that isn't my choice, it's hers. I personally would never look at another woman let alone cheat because I know that there are not many women in the world that would date me. I appreciate her with all my heart. It's just too bad more women do not appreciate ugly men, but I guess if they did, we would have less reasons to be faithful because we'd become the new hot commodity.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Coldie said:


> Well if you would have read the thread you wouldn't have been surprised because in the original post I mention my wife and I have threesomes. I also have older threads that say the same.
> 
> Unsure of your point, but the answer to your questions are.... yes. I admit that we bring other women into our bedroom, not other men. I don't know if I ever said my wife was hot, I said does me being ugly make me appreciate my wife more. But I may have said she was hot, because I am very attracted to her.


My point is that you come across as someone who feels little self worth, and you are kissing the ground that you found a woman to marry you. You don't want to have threesomes, but you do it to indulge your wife. If it was up to you, you'd be perfectly fine with just the two of you. For some reason, your wife needs more than just you. You identify strongly with physical beauty, or more specifically you lacking any external beauty.

Wake up! You ARE worth something. You do have something to offer. However, you identify so much with the idea that you are ugly that you think it's made you more faithful to your wife. I don't see it that way at all. I think it makes you feel more desperate to pursue her love and approval, because you think you are less than other men because of your looks. 

No, I have not read the rest of your threads closely. Apologies for that. But that's what I see. Sorry if I offend.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My point is that you come across as someone who feels little self worth, and you are kissing the ground that you found a woman to marry you. You don't want to have threesomes, but you do it to indulge your wife. If it was up to you, you'd be perfectly fine with just the two of you. For some reason, your wife needs more than just you. You identify strongly with physical beauty, or more specifically you lacking any external beauty.
> 
> Wake up! You ARE worth something. You do have something to offer. However, you identify so much with the idea that you are ugly that you think it's made you more faithful to your wife. I don't see it that way at all. I think it makes you feel more desperate to pursue her love and approval, because you think you are less than other men because of your looks.
> 
> No, I have not read the rest of your threads closely. Apologies for that. But that's what I see. Sorry if I offend.


No you didn't offend me. I took your comment the wrong way. I thought you were implying something else.

I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately, I do feel she is out of my league physically. Which reminds me to appreciate her every day.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Open marriage

Oxymoron


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The idea of a truly bisexual wife (one that is equally attracted to men and women) is intriguing from a biological perspective. What is the biological reason for a man to demand sexual fidelity from his wife? To make sure he doesn't raise another man's kid. If your wife is with another woman that's not an issue. There are certainly other reasons that this might not be ok, but there's no biological reason for it. In addition, women are more likely to be truly bisexual then men, so a wife that likes women might still be very attracted to her husband. Even with straight women like myself the thought of other women doesn't gross us out, we just feel it's not for us.

Compare this to men; straight men are usually icked out by the thought of another man, and a man that likes men is usually less attracted to women. I would bet the population of men that are equally attracted to both genders is far less than women who are. Therefore it's a real risk for a woman to have a hb that likes men as he's not thing to be especially attracted to her and is a huge flight risk should he decide to live an authentic lifestyle.

Anyway, these are just my random thoughts; if you two have an understanding that's all that matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Coldie said:


> No you didn't offend me. I took your comment the wrong way. I thought you were implying something else.
> 
> I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately, I do feel she is out of my league physically. Which reminds me to appreciate her every day.


I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment and then I'll let it drop. You make it sound as if the better the looks, the better the person is as a mate. I think this is terribly wrong thinking. If this had any basis in fact, then the most successful people in the world would be the most beautiful people too. Someone forgot to tell Bill Gates and Warren Buffet that they need to give up their billions because they don't pass the eye test...

Looks are merely but one factor to consider when looking for a desirable mate. There ARE other factors people consider too. No doubt your wife saw some desirable traits in you or she wouldn't have married you. 

You make yourself sound like you would beat Quasimodo in an ugly contest...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

As a woman who has loved men and women, it would be dangerous for me to have an open marriage for me to "get with" women.

I'd fall in love. Women are much easy to love, in my experience.

And then...well...that is not a marriage.

We are all humans. As married people we try to keep ourselves from situations that will harm the marriage.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Coldie said:


> No you didn't offend me. I took your comment the wrong way. I thought you were implying something else.
> 
> I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately, I do feel she is out of my league physically. Which reminds me to appreciate her every day.


I need some clarification. So you and your wife have threesomes with other women? Are you allowed to have intercourse with the other woman or are you there just to help get your wife off? 

If this is the case then this too is a quasi cuckolding scenario.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> I need some clarification. So you and your wife have threesomes with other women? Are you allowed to have intercourse with the other woman or are you there just to help get your wife off?
> 
> If this is the case then this too is a quasi cuckolding scenario.


No, she seems the most turned on when she is whispering in the other girls ear (while the other girl is giving me oral) how sexy she looks giving me oral sex. If we do anything other than oral, I use a condom but my wife will grab my penis and put it in the girl as she talks to dirty to her.

As far as cuckold, I don't think so. She does that she feels like a lesbian except she loves me.

Let me get one thing straight, me thinking I am less attractive than her or not, if she suggest another guy, we're done. She is actually passive and shy normally, but we communicate very openly so she tells me what goes on in her mind. She has a dirty mind and trusts me enough to let me know what's going on.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Coldie said:


> No, she seems the most turned on when she is whispering in the other girls ear (while the other girl is giving me oral) how sexy she looks giving me oral sex. If we do anything other than oral, I use a condom but my wife will grab my penis and put it in the girl as she talks to dirty to her.
> 
> As far as cuckold, I don't think so. She does that she feels like a lesbian except she loves me.


No this is no cuckolding scenario if the other girl is getting you off.

YOU ARE THE LUCKIEST UGLY MUTHERFVCKER ON EARTH. :lol:


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

I've always liked you bandit, by far one of my favorite posters here. So your comment made me make an audible laugh in the office. 

I edited the post above being a bit defensive and clarifying that no matter what threads I make about being ugly, my self esteem will never be "low" enough that I will accept another man in our bedroom. This is not an option, will never happen. Ugly or not, I'm no sucker.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> I've always liked you bandit, by far one of my favorite posters here. So your comment made me make an audible laugh in the office.
> 
> I edited the post above being a bit defensive and clarifying that no matter what threads I make about being ugly, my self esteem will never be "low" enough that I will accept another man in our bedroom. This is not an option, will never happen. Ugly or not, I'm no sucker.


Well you might not know your a sucker like many of the men on TAM were made to be suckers whether they wanted to or not...

But yeah I hear ya, that if she thinks she going to pull the whool over your eyes to be able to pull that $hit off, it's not going down.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Trey, this is true. That's why I am here to absorb experiences and try to figure out how I would react to different things in marriage. 

I've seen the weaknesses in CWI and I like to say to myself, "I would be strong enough to cut all strings and pull off a Shamwow."

But, we all can't be Shamwow.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Trey, this is true. That's why I am here to absorb experiences and try to figure out how I would react to different things in marriage.
> 
> I've seen the weaknesses in CWI and I like to say to myself, "I would be strong enough to cut all strings and pull off a Shamwow."
> 
> But, we all can't be Shamwow.


Your best defense is several:

1. Stay attractive even to singles
2. Stay ontop of your business ( career and money )
3. You gotta do some things without her
4. Keep your sex life going and don't let her shut it down
5. As per #1, let her worry more about another babe stealing you. 
6. Related to #1: Means your physical health and clothing is nice


Thats all you can do. You can be the strongest, best looking, money, powerful man with a c0ck who would make a horse's knees get weak, and she will still cheat on you.

I guess another defence is to know who you are dealing with. Know this person beyond you where attracted. How does this person treat people in the past? How are their friends? Family? What's normal to her.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Well number 1 isn't my strong suit.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment and then I'll let it drop. You make it sound as if the better the looks, the better the person is as a mate. I think this is terribly wrong thinking. If this had any basis in fact, then the most successful people in the world would be the most beautiful people too. Someone forgot to tell Bill Gates and Warren Buffet that they need to give up their billions because they don't pass the eye test...
> 
> Looks are merely but one factor to consider when looking for a desirable mate. There ARE other factors people consider too. No doubt your wife saw some desirable traits in you or she wouldn't have married you.
> 
> You make yourself sound like you would beat Quasimodo in an ugly contest...



True, and you also wouldn't have all these guys on TAM b!tching that they married a hot woman that's a lousy wife and cheats.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Well number 1 isn't my strong suit.


Most of #1 is your internal confidence. Clothing and being in good shape and confident about yourself will make you shine no matter how unblessed in the mug you think you are!


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

changedbeliefs said:


> I've long since thought, we should all fess up and admit, women get married so they can stop having every dude they run into begging them for sex, and they only have to fend off one specific guy. Men get married so they can stop chasing women for sex, and they can rope one woman into being obligated to give it.
> 
> However, that is completely coy, your statement is pretty much exactly opposite of truth. You really think the only reason people get married is just to lock down each other as sex partners??!? By and large, it goes completely against male biology (hunters, sow their wild oats....monogamy is NOT programmed into males) and females far more desire a constant comforting presence, provider presence, than a sexual partner. Why else do people actually get married? Religious reasons, in order to form a family unit, financial reasons....I could go on and on. The list essentially pairs directly up with, the reasons people struggle to decide to divorce when the actual personal side of the relationship (including the sex) deteriorates.


No I don't believe it's the only reason. My statement was an admitted generalization. But for the most part there is no need for anyone to get married if they're not going to get sex from their partner. That's what I meant to say.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> True, and you also wouldn't have all these guys on TAM b!tching that they married a hot woman that's a lousy wife and cheats.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My next wife will be a 300 pound Navajo woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> My next wife will be a 300 pound Navajo woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> My next wife will be a 300 pound Navajo woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My grandfather used to say, "Marry an ugly one, they'll never cheat on you."

My wife took his advice.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> My next wife will be a 300 pound Navajo woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Ha ha, should be easy enough to find.
And you'll never go hungry, she'll make sure of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha, should be easy enough to find.
> And you'll never go hungry, she'll make sure of that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you'll be warm at night in the winter too!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife.
So for my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you.
-Jimmy Soul
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Having an opening dating relationship is one thing. You aren't married and can see other people.

But when you get married, its:

"for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, etc."

It's not, I want to now sleep with someone else, commit adultery on purpose, break my marriage vows we made to each other, to all the witness at our weddings, both sets of parents and God if you believe.

If you want to have many sex partners, stay single.

If you want to settle down, make it work together in marriage, get married.

When people see marriage as a piece of paper and only a legality, they shouldn't of got married in the first place.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Open marriage
> 
> Oxymoron



I totally agree.:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Having an opening dating relationship is one thing. You aren't married and can see other people.
> 
> But when you get married, its:
> 
> ...


And that's a great opinion of marriage for you. There are other great opinions as well.

Marriage should not be a reason to be exclusive. The reason to be exclusive is because it makes you and your spouse happy to be exclusive. To view marriage as a reason how now, "I have you as mine forever and everything I did for you before I can stop because we are married and if you were to leave me you would fail at marriage." This is why so many LD spouses stop sex, because they believe marriage is the reason they can now stop trying to make their spouse happy. Marriage is just a contract and now he/she has to follow THOSE rules. And if that's how people see marriage, they shouldn't be married in the first place. 

Two people learning to work together, raise a family together, and live together happily for the rest of their life is a marriage. Two people communicating, being best friends, having experiences together and both agreeing on what they want to try together, without close minded limits worrying about how other people view marriage (oxy-morons). Marriage IS NOT about what other people think your marriage should be, it is about what you as a couple feel your marriage should be. 

There are so many bad marriages with families struggling because they bind themselves by these ideas that leave them both miserable and unhappy. We should force each other to be happy, work on being happy, go to counseling to find out how we can be more happy...... REALLY?

I've never seen a free spirit, a child playing with a toy, say to anyone, "I need help being happy with my toy. I want to go to counseling to find out how I can learn to appreciate my toy more and find my happiness in this toy." 

You spend more time "working" for happiness than being happy. And life is too short to worry about what makes everyone else unhappy while you and your wife/husband are totally happy. As I said, do whatever you both want to do and don't let other people's opinions stop you from being HAPPY. 

You don't need a counselor for that advice. Free on TAM.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Love the toy analogy...and everything else...

When many people marry, it seems like they can finally relax. No more need to impress. I "got" my man/woman. 


A MC just helps the the couple who BOTH want to save the marriage.. IMO, counciling doesn't work...

They just become the recovering disfunctional married couple. Eventually, they will fall off the wagon.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Having an opening dating relationship is one thing. You aren't married and can see other people.
> 
> But when you get married, its:
> 
> ...


Well put, to a lot of people marriage is not marriage, its a contract. Marriage is not a contract. It is a covenant made between God, a husband and a wife. When you have sex with anyone other than your spouse it is adultry, the Bible says those who practice such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. whether you believe it or not if you were to die today without repentance for the adultery you would be Condemned to eternal damnation. You may say you do not believe but in the end....everyone will neel before God at the judgement. Will you be weighed and found wanting or will you hear enter in thy good and faithful servant...choice is yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I realize that the current conversation have nothing to do with the original OP, but the original OP was most likely a troll.

Her only other comment was this:

*"I wasn't really wild but I wanted attention from boys and it led to me becoming a gang bang girl. I loved sex (still do) but I wanted something more. I finally got knocked up at 17. "*

:scratchhead:


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Well put, to a lot of people marriage is not marriage, its a contract. Marriage is not a contract. It is a covenant made between God, a husband and a wife. When you have sex with anyone other than your spouse it is adultry, the Bible says those who practice such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. whether you believe it or not if you were to die today without repentance for the adultery you would be Condemned to eternal damnation. You may say you do not believe but in the end....everyone will neel before God at the judgement. Will you be weighed and found wanting or will you hear enter in thy good and faithful servant...choice is yours.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Exactly and as time goes on, marriage becomes more a novelty, piece of paper and not really marriage anymore, adultery on purpose, you name it, others can justify it away.

Want to sleep around, be single and enjoy.

Want to get married and what it really means to be married, then be faithful and get married. Marriage isn't easy, its hard work and some sacrifice.

And if it just doesn't work out, you can always get divorced instead of cheating and committing adultery.

Marriage isn't lets have sex with many other people. That's an orgy and not what marriage is about at all. Sad how far down the ladder marriage has gone....

Originally, hubby and wifee, married, move in together, maybe have kids. Today, marriage is a joke, open marriage adultery, don't even get married, kids, move in together, anything goes. How we've gone down hill and fast. And people don't see this as an issue.....

Not having your cake and eat it too......not cool and that's not just my opinion on marriage. 

That's me manning up and being an adult and not talk my way out of situations to justify my sexual appetites.

Adultery is having sex with someone that is not your wifee or hubby. And done on purpose? Sad......

You can always just relieve yourself instead of going out and hooking up.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Originally, hubby and wifee, married, move in together, maybe have kids. Today, marriage is a joke, open marriage adultery, don't even get married, kids, move in together, anything goes. How we've gone down hill and fast. And people don't see this as an issue.....
> 
> Not having your cake and eat it too......not cool and that's not just my opinion on marriage.
> 
> That's me manning up and being an adult and not talk my way out of situations to justify my sexual appetites.



No, that's definitely your opinion on marriage.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Marriage isn't lets have sex with many other people. That's an orgy and not what marriage is about at all. Sad how far down the ladder marriage has gone....
> 
> Originally, hubby and wifee, married, move in together, maybe have kids. Today, marriage is a joke, open marriage adultery, don't even get married, kids, move in together, anything goes. How we've gone down hill and fast. And people don't see this as an issue.....
> 
> ...


Let's talk about marriage originally: This is from Live Science / Stephanie Coontz, the author of "Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage."



1. Arranged alliances

Marriage is a truly ancient institution that predates recorded history. But early marriage was seen as a strategic alliance between families, with the youngsters often having no say in the matter. In some cultures, parents even married one child to the spirit of a deceased child in order to strengthen familial bonds, Coontz said.

2. Family ties

Keeping alliances within the family was also quite common. In the Bible, the forefathers Isaac and Jacob married cousins and Abraham married his half-sister. Cousin marriages remain common throughout the world, particularly in the Middle East. In fact, Rutgers anthropologist Robin Fox has estimated that the majority of all marriages throughout history were between first and second cousins.

3. Polygamy preferred

Monogamy may seem central to marriage now, but in fact, polygamy was common throughout history. From Jacob, to Kings David and Solomon, Biblical men often had anywhere from two to thousands of wives. (Of course, though polygamy may have been an ideal that high-status men aspired to, for purely mathematical reasons most men likely had at most one wife). In a few cultures, one woman married multiple men, and there have even been some rare instances of group marriages. [Life's Extremes: Monogamy vs. Polygamy]

4. Babies optional

In many early cultures, men could dissolve a marriage or take another wife if a woman was infertile. However, the early Christian church was a trailblazer in arguing that marriage was not contingent on producing offspring.

"The early Christian church held the position that if you can procreate you must not refuse to procreate. But they always took the position that they would annul a marriage if a man could not have sex with his wife, but not if they could not conceive," Coontz told LiveScience.

5. Monogamy established

Monogamy became the guiding principle for Western marriages sometime between the sixth and the ninth centuries, Coontz said.

"There was a protracted battle between the Catholic Church and the old nobility and kings who wanted to say 'I can take a second wife,'" Coontz said.

The Church eventually prevailed, with monogamy becoming central to the notion of marriage by the ninth century.

6. Monogamy lite

Still, monogamous marriage was very different from the modern conception of mutual fidelity. Though marriage was legally or sacramentally recognized between just one man and one woman, until the 19th century, men had wide latitude to engage in extramarital affairs, Coontz said. Any children resulting from those trysts, however, would be illegitimate, with no claim to the man's inheritance.

"Men's promiscuity was quite protected by the dual laws of legal monogamy but tolerance — basically enabling — of informal promiscuity," Coontz said.

Women caught stepping out, by contrast, faced serious risk and censure.

7. State or church?

Marriages in the West were originally contracts between the families of two partners, with the Catholic Church and the state staying out of it. In 1215, the Catholic Church decreed that partners had to publicly post banns, or notices of an impending marriage in a local parish, to cut down on the frequency of invalid marriages (the Church eliminated that requirement in the 1980s). Still, until the 1500s, the Church accepted a couple's word that they had exchanged marriage vows, with no witnesses or corroborating evidence needed.

8. Civil marriage

In the last several hundred years, the state has played a greater role in marriage. For instance, Massachusetts began requiring marriage licenses in 1639, and by the 19th-century marriage licenses were common in the United States.

9. Love matches

By about 250 years ago, the notion of love matches gained traction, Coontz said, meaning marriage was based on love and possibly sexual desire. But mutual attraction in marriage wasn't important until about a century ago. In fact, in Victorian England, many held that women didn't have strong sexual urges at all, Coontz said.

10. Market economics

Around the world, family-arranged alliances have gradually given way to love matches, and a transition from an agricultural to a market economy plays a big role in that transition, Coontz said.

Parents historically controlled access to inheritance of agricultural land. But with the spread of a market economy, "it's less important for people to have permission of their parents to wait to give them an inheritance or to work on their parents' land," Coontz said. "So it's more possible for young people to say, 'heck, I'm going to marry who I want.'"

Modern markets also allow women to play a greater economic role, which lead to their greater independence. And the expansion of democracy, with its emphasis on liberty and individual choice, may also have stacked the deck for love matches.

11. Different spheres

Still, marriage wasn't about equality until about 50 years ago. At that time, women and men had unique rights and responsibilities within marriage. For instance, in the United States, marital rape was legal in many states until the 1970s, and women often could not open credit cards in their own names, Coontz said. Women were entitled to support from their husbands, but didn't have the right to decide on the distribution of community property. And if a wife was injured or killed, a man could sue the responsible party for depriving him of "services around the home," whereas women didn't have the same option, Coontz said.

12. Partnership of equals

By about 50 years ago, the notion that men and women had identical obligations within marriage began to take root. Instead of being about unique, gender-based roles, most partners conceived of their unions in terms of flexible divisions of labor, companionship, and mutual sexual attraction.

13. Gay marriage gains ground

Changes in straight marriage paved the way for gay marriage. Once marriage was not legally based on complementary, gender-based roles, gay marriage seemed like a logical next step.

"One of the reasons for the stunningly rapid increase in acceptance of same sex marriage is because heterosexuals have completely changed their notion of what marriage is between a man and a woman," Coontz said. "We now believe it is based on love, mutual sexual attraction, equality and a flexible division of labor."


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Now by originally, do you mean originally but not really originally, just when it was like how you like to view marriage? 

We all aren't Christians and the idea of marriage isn't the same for everyone, regardless of your opinion on marriage. As I said in my first reply:



> Two people learning to work together, raise a family together, and live together happily for the rest of their life is a marriage. Two people communicating, being best friends, having experiences together and both agreeing on what they want to try together, without close minded limits worrying about how other people view YOUR marriage (oxy-morons). Marriage IS NOT about what other people think your marriage should be, it is about what you as a couple feel your marriage should be.


And yes, that is still just my opinion. Although a very good one.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> Well put, to a lot of people marriage is not marriage, its a contract. Marriage is not a contract. It is a covenant made between God, a husband and a wife.


To me, marriage _is_ a contract. There is no god, so to me the idea of it being a covenant with god is nonsense. 

If you want to structure your concept of marriage around a belief in god, that's your right, just as it is my right to approach it differently based on my beliefs. Accordingly, our vows did not include any of those found in religious ceremonies. We have worked out and negotiated a model of marriage that conforms to our mutual beliefs and wishes - and what could be better than that? For us, anyway.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> To me, marriage _is_ a contract. There is no god, so to me the idea of it being a covenant with god is nonsense.
> 
> If you want to structure your concept of marriage around a belief in god, that's your right, just as it is my right to approach it differently based on my beliefs. Accordingly, our vows did not include any of those found in religious ceremonies. We have worked out and negotiated a model of marriage that conforms to our mutual beliefs and wishes - and what could be better than that? For us, anyway.


Contracts are made to be broken. And if the contract is broken then you can quit your obligation towards the marriage.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

> I personally would never look at another woman let alone cheat because I know that there are not many women in the world that would date me.


Can't miss an opportunity to reference this again:


Chris Rock said:


> A man is only as faithful as his options.


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