# Is my wife capable of saying sorry?



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I've been reading and posting here a bit. I've learned some useful things and appreciate the site. It helps me cope and provides some much needed perspective. Here's my deal.

I've been married 17 years and I've been stuggling in my marriage for the last 5 years. Since 2008 I've been working on improving myself since I was not happy. I use to over react to stuff that happened at home or work. I was never physical but I could be intimidating (big, red face, intense eyes...) when I got mad which was about once a month. I deeply regret my behavior and consider it a major failure of my character. There were times when I had the right to be upset its just that I didn't handle it well. I've turned all that around and developed a calmer communication style for the past 4 years. In short I don't sweat the small stuff, tend to keep things positive and accept the things that I can't control. My wife agrees that I've changed dramatically and that I've strengthened my relationship with my boys. However, I'm now wondering if the new me is compatible with my wife who can't seem to make the changes she needs to improve our relationship. I need to say that overall she's a good person who works hard for her family and as far as I'm aware she's been a loyal wife. Most people really like her with the exception of smart career women who don't like her submissive nature.

The one thing I've always done is take responsibility for my screw ups. I'll apologize and take the blame for whatever. My wife on the other hand will never say she's sorry and is generally defensive. It's like she refuses to believe my feelings can be hurt. She'll never initiate discussions about our relationship including times when its her turn to come forward and apologize. Instead of verbalizing an apology she'll try to be extra nice to me in various ways but will never want to discuss what happened. In the past I would initiate the needed discussion but I wouldn't get much feedback regardless of how lovingly it was broached. These days I've grown tired of this dynamic and no longer want initiate the discussion which is creating distance between us. I'm starting to think she'll never be capable of an intimate relationship where feelings are discussed and opinions are exchanged. It's become really depressing to think about the long term implications. So what do you think? Will she ever be able to say she's sorry or initiate a healthy relationship discussion?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Enginerd said:


> My wife on the other hand will never say she's sorry and is generally defensive. It's like she refuses to believe my feelings can be hurt. She'll never initiate discussions about our relationship including times when its her turn to come forward and apologize. Instead of verbalizing an apology she'll try to be extra nice to me in various ways but will never want to discuss what happened. In the past I would initiate the needed discussion but I wouldn't get much feedback regardless of how lovingly it was broached. These days I've grown tired of this dynamic and no longer want initiate the discussion which is creating distance between us. I'm starting to think she'll never be capable of an intimate relationship where feelings are discussed and opinions are exchanged. It's become really depressing to think about the long term implications. So what do you think? Will she ever be able to say she's sorry or initiate a healthy relationship discussion?


I hope so. I've got almost exactly the same situation and things are on the brink. I feel like a nag having to ask, often strongly. for any kind of apology about anything. How do you think this came about?


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## s.k (Feb 27, 2010)

Have you considered counselling?? I think its important for both of you to express how you feel towards each other if you angry then say what has upset you but in a civil manner. It seems to me that your wife has adjusted to this new behaviour and is taking advantage of it. From her point of view im guessing that because you have changed and she coped with the fact of you being intimidating she now in her mind has the upper hand as she wont be intimidated anymore. You really need to get yourselves to a counsellor and resolve your issues before it gets to much. Good luck


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> Most people really like her with the exception of smart career women who don't like her submissive nature.


I'm not really sure why, but this sentence caught my attention. Why would it matter if people like her or not? And I'll speculate that "smart career women" basically don't respect her because she doesn't stand up to you. Have you experienced women in the workplace push back to you and/or apologize?

I wonder if you have been intimidating for a long time and as she is more of a submissive nature, there's no doubt patterns have been created, so while you have changed, it may not be so easy for her ~ especially if she is used to being submissive or perhaps needing to walk on eggshells. Any merit in thinking this?

I wonder if her calm, submissive, "nice" nature was part of her initial attraction to you; she balanced that other side of you? There's avoidance, maybe she's scared of what she might find if she really opened up with you.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I hope so. I've got almost exactly the same situation and things are on the brink. I feel like a nag having to ask, often strongly. for any kind of apology about anything. How do you think this came about?


This is my guess.....In my wife's case I think it was because she was raised in alcholic family, she's the youngest of 4 children and I have a strong personality. Her experiences at home created her coping mechanisms but my old communication style created some extra resentment. In our early days I liked the fact that she didn't complain, but what I didn't realize was how passive agressive she could be. I tend to only hear about stuff she's unhappy with when she's had a few drinks. She is sometimes not aware of why she's doing something which makes it hard to work on stuff.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Enginerd said:


> Will she ever be able to say she's sorry or initiate a healthy relationship discussion?


Your life is like the movie Spiderman III with Toby Maguire. You've gone around making many enemies, pushing people away, and then you figured it out and got rid of your anger. But the fight isn't over. Your anger is still very much alive because you've channelled your anger externally. The fight isnt over when you say it is; it's over when you've accounted for ALL of your anger. 

There's an intimacy ladder in any relationship, including marriage. Climbing the ladder takes time, about as much time as it took for you to destroy it. You're temper has landed you at rock bottom. You're not even a welcomed acquaintance. You'll have to start by doing things that would make you a welcomed acquaintance. After a few years, when she's receptive to your presence, then do things that would make you a friend she would want to have. Again another few years to get comfortable and maybe you work your way to being a good friend. You're probably thinking, 'That's too long.' Maybe. But you didnt seem to think it was too long when you were dishing it out. 

She's not going to say sorry to someone who has abused her for decades. She probably wont start apologizing until you are friends again.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Is it the words you waqnt to hear? You said she will be extra nice could that be her way of showing you she is sorry while she is unable to say the words? 

I just get the impression that you want the WORDS more then the actual show of it. Do you just want her to admitte she was wrong? Is there great glory in her confessing to being wrong or can you settle with the actions she takes to show you she is sorry while she is getting to the point where she can say it verbally.
I can say honestly after many years of hurt that it took and still can a long time for me to say I am sorry to my H. and it is as simple as feeling embarrassed or fearful of hearing "Damn write you were wrong and should be sorry." Even though I know he is not going to say it.

At least her show of being sorry is there so you know she feels it. Give her time to learn how to say it with out fear of becoming sorry all the time. Sometimes it is hard to accept the blame and admit it out loud even if it was a small matter.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> I'm not really sure why, but this sentence caught my attention. Why would it matter if people like her or not? And I'll speculate that "smart career women" basically don't respect her because she doesn't stand up to you. Have you experienced women in the workplace push back to you and/or apologize?
> 
> These days I keep everything professional and detached at work but I'm the first to admit that I have an intimidating look so yes some have pushed back and some have apologized after they got to know me. My wife had more guy friends before she met me so I'm not convinced its all about standing up to me. Unfortunately I think its more about her personality. She's not a typical women on the communincation side.
> I wonder if you have been intimidating for a long time and as she is more of a submissive nature, there's no doubt patterns have been created, so while you have changed, it may not be so easy for her ~ especially if she is used to being submissive or perhaps needing to walk on eggshells. Any merit in thinking this?
> ...


Also on target.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Blanca said:


> Your life is like the movie Spiderman III with Toby Maguire. You've gone around making many enemies, pushing people away, and then you figured it out and got rid of your anger. But the fight isn't over. Your anger is still very much alive because you've channelled your anger externally. The fight isnt over when you say it is; it's over when you've accounted for ALL of your anger.
> 
> There's an intimacy ladder in any relationship, including marriage. Climbing the ladder takes time, about as much time as it took for you to destroy it. You're temper has landed you at rock bottom. You're not even a welcomed acquaintance. You'll have to start by doing things that would make you a welcomed acquaintance. After a few years, when she's receptive to your presence, then do things that would make you a friend she would want to have. Again another few years to get comfortable and maybe you work your way to being a good friend. You're probably thinking, 'That's too long.' Maybe. But you didnt seem to think it was too long when you were dishing it out.
> 
> She's not going to say sorry to someone who has abused her for decades. She probably wont start apologizing until you are friends again.



I appreciate this comment and most of it rings very true but I didn't abuse her. I hit rock bottom several years ago with my anger. We are talking about 10 serious arguments in 20 years and she's always been free to do what she pleases. She doesn't have any other friends so I'm starting to realize its not all about my anger.She has some anger as well but it comes out differently. I've been very calm for the last 5 years and I have been patient trying to regain her friendship as you say. I'm at the point where I just don't think she will ever change.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Kurosity said:


> Is it the words you waqnt to hear? You said she will be extra nice could that be her way of showing you she is sorry while she is unable to say the words?
> 
> I just get the impression that you want the WORDS more then the actual show of it. Do you just want her to admitte she was wrong? Is there great glory in her confessing to being wrong or can you settle with the actions she takes to show you she is sorry while she is getting to the point where she can say it verbally.
> I can say honestly after many years of hurt that it took and still can a long time for me to say I am sorry to my H. and it is as simple as feeling embarrassed or fearful of hearing "Damn write you were wrong and should be sorry." Even though I know he is not going to say it.
> ...


Thanks I'll think about this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

This is your answer - believe it or not.

It's not about you - trust me.



Enginerd said:


> This is my guess.....In my wife's case I think it was because she was raised in alcholic family, she's the youngest of 4 children and I have a strong personality. Her experiences at home created her coping mechanisms but my old communication style created some extra resentment. In our early days I liked the fact that she didn't complain, but what I didn't realize was how passive agressive she could be. I tend to only hear about stuff she's unhappy with when she's had a few drinks. She is sometimes not aware of why she's doing something which makes it hard to work on stuff.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

s.k said:


> Have you considered counselling?? I think its important for both of you to express how you feel towards each other if you angry then say what has upset you but in a civil manner. It seems to me that your wife has adjusted to this new behaviour and is taking advantage of it. From her point of view im guessing that because you have changed and she coped with the fact of you being intimidating she now in her mind has the upper hand as she wont be intimidated anymore. You really need to get yourselves to a counsellor and resolve your issues before it gets to much. Good luck



No thanks! I think its very rare to find a good one.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

You are welcome and I hope it can be figured out and understood. Communication is hard as heck and sometimes it is harder for others.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

With wives, actions speak louder than words.
Dragging words out of your wife is a mistake. Make it a habit to "fight" with her in such a way as you are clear in what you want, and you clearly acknowledge her view point. Don't try to make your relationship discussions arrive at a "resolution" or an agreement. But, over the next days see if she has taken your needs to heart.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

We all have our unique ways of making a point, so an argument that worked for me might not work for you. Still, my wife ultimately admitted that it is almost impossible to apologize for even really hurtful things, because to her, it feels like she is saying that she was never hurt by my actions.

What finally began to work for me? I told her that she has a choice in life, going forward. She's always decided that pride and being justified are her priorities, set on a higher shelf than peace and unity with me. She can be happy and content with them, or me, but not both. Told her that I'm not threatening divorce, but I will not play second fiddle to something that is more important to her than her marriage. Then, the 180 starts. I won't get into detail on how hurtful a few comments have been, but since I'm a verbal guy, they cut to the core. When I tried to broach the subject, and she justified, I found a diplomatic exit and told her that I'll leave her alone with her 'friends'. Pride and justification became her only friends for a while, she brought up the arguments enough that I reiterated it often, and she saw that things were great with the kids, friends, except she was on the outside looking in.

Its very important to mention that this only worked because we use this as a regular theme. I remind her that I'm not married to my job when she feels threatened by the hours, and promise her to do better in connecting, for instance. Same goes for the TV, and why we threw it away for years. So, our focus is on the choices we make, a theme that was critical in our pre-marital counseling.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Enginerd said:


> This is my guess.....In my wife's case I think it was because she was raised in alcholic family, she's the youngest of 4 children and I have a strong personality. Her experiences at home created her coping mechanisms but my old communication style created some extra resentment. In our early days I liked the fact that she didn't complain, but what I didn't realize was how passive agressive she could be. I tend to only hear about stuff she's unhappy with when she's had a few drinks. She is sometimes not aware of why she's doing something which makes it hard to work on stuff.


Bingo! My wife was also raised in a home with multiple generations of male alcoholism. Her mom is just as bad or worse. Not being able to apologize is a trait of certain personality disorders and they talk about infant needs and personality development, but sometimes I wonder if it's just plain old disrespect for men, going back to her drunken father. There's no need to apologize because I don't deserve it, being a man ...

But words are important. Language is needed to establish intimacy. It will be a substantial challenge to develop an intimate relationship with a mute that scurries around doing things to send you messages all the while hoping you interpret her actions correctly.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Halien said:


> We all have our unique ways of making a point, so an argument that worked for me might not work for you. Still, my wife ultimately admitted that it is almost impossible to apologize for even really hurtful things, because to her, it feels like she is saying that she was never hurt by my actions.
> 
> What finally began to work for me? I told her that she has a choice in life, going forward. She's always decided that pride and being justified are her priorities, set on a higher shelf than peace and unity with me. She can be happy and content with them, or me, but not both. Told her that I'm not threatening divorce, but I will not play second fiddle to something that is more important to her than her marriage. Then, the 180 starts. I won't get into detail on how hurtful a few comments have been, but since I'm a verbal guy, they cut to the core. When I tried to broach the subject, and she justified, I found a diplomatic exit and told her that I'll leave her alone with her 'friends'. Pride and justification became her only friends for a while, she brought up the arguments enough that I reiterated it often, and she saw that things were great with the kids, friends, except she was on the outside looking in.
> 
> Its very important to mention that this only worked because we use this as a regular theme. I remind her that I'm not married to my job when she feels threatened by the hours, and promise her to do better in connecting, for instance. Same goes for the TV, and why we threw it away for years. So, our focus is on the choices we make, a theme that was critical in our pre-marital counseling.



I like the way you articulated your issue. I hadn't thought of if in terms of pride and being justified. The way I put it was that my wife prefers to play the victim (of alcoholic parents) and I had previously been making it easy for her with my abrasive comments and reactive behavior. She sometimes makes some weird child like decisions and it would rattle my trust in her resulting in me getting upset. I made a promise to stop this forever if she would stop playing the victim and start making adult decisions. She is trying but she's the kind of person that only thinks about what's in front of her that day and doesn't possess strong self discipline. If I'm not willing to make our important relationship choices they won't happen or be discussed. In general I take responsibility for our relationship and was hoping she would eventually join me after I straightened myself out. Its been several years now and I'm getting tired of carrying the relationship load alone. I'm trying to be understanding but I'm not getting my emotional needs met so its become a struggle to remain interested.

Thanks Halien this was helpful.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

"But words are important. Language is needed to establish intimacy. It will be a substantial challenge to develop an intimate relationship with a mute that scurries around doing things to send you messages all the while hoping you interpret her actions correctly."


10 year Hubby -I agree 100% that its my challenge. It's a matter of endurance now.....


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Enginerd said:


> If I'm not willing to make our important relationship choices they won't happen or be discussed. In general I take responsibility for our relationship and was hoping she would eventually join me after I straightened myself out. Its been several years now and I'm getting tired of carrying the relationship load alone. I'm trying to be understanding but I'm not getting my emotional needs met so its become a struggle to remain interested.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Hoping is just that. Whether or not your wife steps up and joins you, your marriage is your responsibility. The frustration of not having your emotional need met is a feeling I know well. You have made the good choice to abandon your dysfunctional behavior but you need to replace it with positive actions. Ask in a non-blaming, non-accusing way for what you need, ie, "I think I deserve an apology". I have to believe we can make progress with this otherwise all acoa's would be prevented from ever participating in a fulfilling relationship.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Bingo! My wife was also raised in a home with multiple generations of male alcoholism. Her mom is just as bad or worse. Not being able to apologize is a trait of certain personality disorders and they talk about infant needs and personality development, but sometimes I wonder if it's just plain old disrespect for men, going back to her drunken father. There's no need to apologize because I don't deserve it, being a man ...
> 
> But words are important. Language is needed to establish intimacy. It will be a substantial challenge to develop an intimate relationship with a mute that scurries around doing things to send you messages all the while hoping you interpret her actions correctly.


When someone gets emotionally broken from abuse, it's like admitting failure to apologize to someone else - especially someone who shares the gender of those that abused her.

Abuse plants the seeds of distrust... for ANYONE in a position remotely resembling authority. Your wives are likely angry. Angry at men. Angry that men did bad things to them when they were defenseless.

They often see conflict in an "all or nothing" light. You either "win" the conflict or "lose" the conflict. Apologizing makes them feel like they're on the "losing" side. No one likes to lose. Seeking forgiveness feels like complete failure - and swift punishment may result (because it always used to).

On a personal note. I was told when we separated that "I won" (and she lost). I was told when we attempted to reconcile that "I won" (and she lost).

I just wanted her to be nice to me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ultimately you are going to need to make some hard choices.

I am going to start with a practical question. Could you tolerate a situation where she promises to handle a situation differently in the future. She doesn't apologize for what she did - but does promise not to do it again.

Just a thought. I would not do well with a spouse who could not / would not apologize. It would make me think they didn't respect me.


UOTE=Enginerd;558560]"But words are important. Language is needed to establish intimacy. It will be a substantial challenge to develop an intimate relationship with a mute that scurries around doing things to send you messages all the while hoping you interpret her actions correctly."


10 year Hubby -I agree 100% that its my challenge. It's a matter of endurance now.....[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Just a thought. I would not do well with a spouse who could not / would not apologize. It would make me think they didn't respect me.


Me neither. I think verbalization is must. I'm genuinely afraid for the op's sake that relying on endurance will lead back to more outbursts after he has worked so hard not to have them any more


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