# This



## Junebug86

A little over a year ago my husband disclosed having a sexual relationship with a woman.


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> A little over a year ago my husband disclosed having a sexual relationship with a woman that worked at a business we owned. At the time, we had been married 14 years. I remember this as a difficult time in my life, my mother had a terminal illness, lots of changes in our life. One night while I was away, I had a suspicion something wasn’t right. I asked him if he was sleeping with her and said surely you aren’t that desperate. She was a very unattractive, rather trashy looking woman that was a bartender at our restaurant. I remember he told me she liked to flashed her boobs for tips. She was proud of her boob job and he must have liked what he saw. He has confessed the sexual affair, said it was purely physical, always booze involved. Said he was weak, poor boundaries, ashamed of himself and obviously had a huge ego. The sex was oral, never a date, didn’t spend the night, go out for dinner, etc. What kind of woman would settle for giving a guy a blow job in exchange to have their boobs fondled and vagina fingered? BTW, this woman was in her early 50’s and my husband mid 60s. Also, shortly after this relationship started, we sold the restaurant to a local businessman that we knew. The woman sent my husband several emails after the sale of the company. My husband never deleted her emails or his replies. In one email, she complained that the new owner immediately sent her to work at one of his other restaurants that didn’t serve alcohol and she had become a cashier. She mentioned that he was hiring another woman in town to manage the restaurant and she was never given an opportunity or be considered for the manager’s job. Also, this woman worked as a bartender at another facility in town that catered to elderly veterans. She had a reputation for servicing men however, my husband was pretty naive.
> 
> We went to marriage counseling and the therapist hit him right between the eyes with women don’t do that just to taste your creamsicle. She suspected that the woman was keeping my husband distracted while she was stealing money, perhaps setting him up for a sexual harassment lawsuit or wanted the manager‘s job that had just opened up. My husband is a wealthy man and this was pretty common knowledge in the community. After the therapist had several sessions alone with my husband and then joint with us, she clearly believed she had our situation read correctly. She also got the confession that when I wasn’t around, he drank a lot of hard liquor. The only issue we ever during our marriage revolved around hard liquor, he was fine with beer or wine. The level of lies, betrayal, willing to risk our marriage, half of our assets if I divorced him, etc. This might have happened 15 or 16 years ago and happened twice, it has hurt me so deeply that it might as well have happened last week.
> 
> Our therapist believes that while he made a decision in to engage in this risky behavior, that he was also targeted by a woman who was more interested in his wallet than a relationship. My husband wasn’t at the restaurant very often or without me at the restaurant. This place was more of a hobby and not a job. I know that I need to work on letting some of my anger go, it’s been 15 months since my husband’s confession. He has begged me to forgive him.
> 
> So, has anyone been in a situation like this before? I think they call this spouse poaching. Would be interested in comments.


So sorry that you are in this situation JuneBug.
I’ve never been in this situation, but I think I can add a few words regardless.

First that ‘spouse poaching’ thing is immaterial. It doesn’t matter what the ***** wanted or why. What does matter is that your husband couldn’t keep it in his pants. That’s the part of this that he could control, and chose not too. That’s the only bit that matters, everything else is blameshifting and minimizing.

And that’s the part you have to decide what to do about. His faithlessness. Forget about her, she’s garbage.

For your part, you don’t have to be ok with this. You don’t ever have to reconcile with him. You should forgive him or it could eat you up inside. But you don’t have to accept this as “just the way it is”.

He wants forgiveness, but he has no idea how lucky he is that you’re even still around. Many many betrayed spouses simply cannot deal with the betrayal even years later and end up divorcing. 15 years ago doesn’t matter, you learned it last year. He’s had 15 years to come to terms with it. You just found out. Many reconciliations take years for the betrayed to come to a place of feeling normal (or whatever the new normal is).

Is he truly remorseful? Has he done everything under the sun to try to help you heal? Has he given his heart and soul to make this up to you? If not, then it’s no wonder you’re here hurt like you are.

Don't let that counselor feed you some bs about not being his fault. He got played because he allowed it. THAT is the problem, he allowed it. He dropped his drawers.

Im so sorry you had this happen to you. I really wish the best for you in this.


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## Beach123

I’m interested in why you think you need to forgive him?
He made many decisions over and over to cause harm to you and your marriage.
What makes you think he won’t do it again?

what has he done to work on his weak boundaries and complete disrespect for you?


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> So sorry that you are in this situation JuneBug.
> I’ve never been in this situation, but I think I can add a few words regardless.
> 
> First that ‘spouse poaching’ thing is immaterial. It doesn’t matter what the *** wanted or why. What does matter is that your husband couldn’t keep it in his pants. That’s the part of this that he could control,and chose not too. That’s the only bit that matters, everything else is blameshifting and minimizing.
> 
> And that’s the part you have to decide what to do about. His faithlessness. Forget about her, she’s garbage.
> 
> For your part, you don’t have to be ok with this. You don’t ever have to reconcile with him. You should forgive him or it could eat you up inside. But you don’t have to accept this as “just the way it is”.
> 
> He wants forgiveness, but he has no idea how lucky he is that you’re even still around. Many many betrayed spouses simply cannot deal with the betrayal even years later and end up divorcing. 15 years ago doesn’t matter, you learned it last year. He’s had 15 years to come to terms with it. You just found out. Many reconciliations take years for the betrayed to come to a place of feeling normal (or whatever the new normal is).
> 
> Is he truly remorseful? Has he done everything under the sun to try to help you heal? Has he given his heart and soul to make this up to you? If not, then it’s no wonder you’re here hurt like you are.
> 
> Don't let that counselor feed you some bs about not being his fault. He got played because he allowed it. THAT is the problem, he allowed it. He dropped his drawers.
> 
> Im so sorry you had this happen to you. I really wish the best for you in this.


Oh yes, he is remorseful. We have spent a lot of time in counseling. He definitely understands that he made a choice, that is without question. He understands that he actually invited the situation. Hasn’t exactly gotten off the hook. This has been hell for him and that’s his stuff to deal. He has been willing to do anything and everything that I have asked of him. Do I feel like I have to forgive him? Absolutely do not and never will. Can I move beyond it? I know that you can hold onto anger and grudges and not make yourself sick and your environment toxic. We are both very clear on what he did and how whatever falls out of this, he brought on himself. One last thing, we did see two different female therapists and both arrived at the same conclusion. What I would like to know is about others that either found themselves or their spouse in a situation like ours, how their therapist worked through this and how things are going for them.


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## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> I’m interested in why you think you need to forgive him?
> He made many decisions over and over to cause harm to you and your marriage.
> What makes you think he won’t do it again?
> 
> what has he done to work on his weak boundaries and complete disrespect for you?


Oh, yes he is doing anything and everything to work through the mess he made. I don’t feel like I have to forgive him and I won’t. That’s what he has to work through. But, I know that staying with him and creating a hell isn’t effective either. I don’t want to live in a toxic environment. My husband knows there is no excuse for his behavior period, he drug this into our life. He has to work on himself and has done some individual counseling to help him figure out why he would risk what he has described as a wonderful marriage, friendship, fun life we have had.


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## Beach123

So he’s mainly selfish and self serving then, eh? 
even needing you to forgive him is him being self serving.
Do you stay because there is money within the marriage?
Would you have half the money if you left him?


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## Diana7

15 months since you found out is still quite early days but you say you have no intention of ever forgiving him so you may as well just leave right now unless you want to both live in misery for the rest of your lives. 
Unforgiveness and anger will hurt you and stop the marriage from ever being restored. 
It's not easy but without it there is no hope really.


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> What I would like to know is about others that either found themselves or their spouse in a situation like ours, how their therapist worked through this and how things are going for them


JuneBug, I know you’re seeking others thoughts about this one question and not so much the rest of the infidelity, but can I ask why? Why this is this aspect concerning you so much?

Are you concerned about your husband healing from that vulnerability? That wouldn’t make sense after 15 years though. Even a realization of the exposure now would be fairly easy to deal with mentally I would think.

Are you wanting him to understand the gravity and impact of his screw up? If so, I would suggest as I did before, that is focusing on the wrong thing.

Your comments seem to suggest he’s doing everything he can to make this right, but your tone also suggests you aren’t getting through this very well. Perhaps you are looking for a scapegoat for your pain (the spouse poaching)?

My opinion from this side of the keyboard is that you should remain focused on healing from the affair, without somehow trying to justify it in your mind. There is no justification and nothing will make this better. If healing means doing it without your husband, then so be it. Adultery comes with heavy consequences, oftentimes even heavier for spouses and families than the adulterer. But this doesn’t have to end your marriage if you don’t want it too. Regardless, you should find a way to be happy.


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## Laurentium

Junebug86 said:


> So, has anyone been in a situation like this before? I think they call this spouse poaching. Would be interested in comments.


Well, I work with couples where this has happened, quite often. Personally, my line to him would be less like "you got played", and more like "do you understand the impact of this on your partner?" Do you think he does, now? If not, that needs talking about.


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## Blondilocks

Why did he confess out of the blue? He must be in his early eighties, now - is he trying to get right with the Lord before he kicks the bucket?


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## Sfort

You need to answer a logical question about your emotional problem: Are his infidelities a life sentence? If so, you have your answer. Move on. If not, it sounds like you're on a path with your counselors that may help you get the solution you want. Being unable to forgive (not forget) is a big problem for YOU. If you can't, you can't. You will have to live with the garbage that goes along with the lack of forgiveness. 

Having said that, you have confirmed that he's a POS. It might be instructional to conduct a lot more research into his real background over these years. There could be more. Hopefully there's not.


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## TexasMom1216

These are his choices. He made them, and will make them again given the opportunity, especially if the message is that “he was tricked” and it’s not his fault. This is a flaw within him, and he thoughtlessly hurt you because he was only thinking of what he wanted. Why would you stay with someone who cares so little for you? Life is awfully short to put up with this kind of treatment.


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## Junebug86

Diana7 said:


> 15 months since you found out is still quite early days but you say you have no intention of ever forgiving him so you may as well just leave right now unless you want to both live in misery for the rest of your lives.
> Unforgiveness and anger will hurt you and stop the marriage from ever being restored.
> It's not easy but without it there is no hope really.


Forgiveness is for me, not him. The marriage is healing. What I would like to know more about is what is going on deep down inside a person. He says he has no idea why he did it and the therapist has been working with him on this. Why would anyone risk losing their marriage and parting with a significant amount of money? For what? He even says it’s crazy what he did.


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## Junebug86

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> My husband has a prominent position for the healthcare organization he works for. There are dozens of young women..mostly nurses, who work under him. Over the years many of these girls have tried to "poach" my spouse..texting him at all sorts of hours, telling him inappropriate personal details about their lives, etc. To my knowledge he has never actually strayed with any of them..but due to his past infidelities (before having this position) it is difficult to trust him. I used to blame the girls for coming onto a married man..but I now know if anything has ever happened or does happen, he is fully to blame. No matter what u choose to do, just remember, no one held a gun to his head..he was not forced..this was a choice he made. And you have every right to be disturbed and upset about it. The rest lies with you and what u know of your H. Can u ever trust him again? Is he genuinely remorseful? Has he made it a point to put u first and repent for what he has done? And most of all..is this something u can let go and live with? I do not always think forgiveness is necessary..but I do believe u have to choose to either let it go or hold on to it. And that is up to u and only u.


Thank you for your reply. My husband is full of shame, he is known for being honest, ethical and a very generous person. Inside, he has described himself as weak, insecure and acknowledges problems with alcohol. I do trust my husband and he is a very loving man. As with anything that surfaces like this, there is more going on underneath.


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## Diana7

Junebug86 said:


> Forgiveness is for me, not him. The marriage is healing. What I would like to know more about is what is going on deep down inside a person. He says he has no idea why he did it and the therapist has been working with him on this. Why would anyone risk losing their marriage and parting with a significant amount of money? For what? He even says it’s crazy what he did.


People do stupid and crazy things sadly.
Unforgiveness will definitely badly affect you both. You can't move on unless you intend to forgive and be able to eventually heal.


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> JuneBug, I know you’re seeking others thoughts about this one question and not so much the rest of the infidelity, but can I ask why? Why this is this aspect concerning you so much?
> 
> Are you concerned about your husband healing from that vulnerability? That wouldn’t make sense after 15 years though. Even a realization of the exposure now would be fairly easy to deal with mentally I would think.
> 
> Are you wanting him to understand the gravity and impact of his screw up? If so, I would suggest as I did before, that is focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> Your comments seem to suggest he’s doing everything he can to make this right, but your tone also suggests you aren’t getting through this very well. Perhaps you are looking for a scapegoat for your pain (the spouse poaching)?
> 
> My opinion from this side of the keyboard is that you should remain focused on healing from the affair, without somehow trying to justify it in your mind. There is no justification and nothing will make this better. If healing means doing it without your husband, then so be it. Adultery comes with heavy consequences, oftentimes even heavier for spouses and families than the adulterer. But this doesn’t have to end your marriage if you don’t want it too. Regardless, you should find a way to be happy.


The thoughts of the betrayal come and go. My husband has been digging deep and full of shame. He says he has no idea why he did such a stupid thing. We had a great relationship, sex life, family life, very active together, etc. We have been each other’s best friend for 34 years. I think that’s why it is so confusing. Both of us recognize, we are different people today than we were then. Buried our parents, sold businesses, relocated, health problems and major life stresses that just come along with the territory. Our priority shifted several years ago when we recognized that at this stage of the game, our marriage needed to first. We found ourselves in a situation where our adult children expected us to do everything for them to make their lives easier. Nope, we decided adult children with children, really shouldn’t be trying to run our lives. Since, we put boundaries in place our marriage actually feels great. Should have done that a long time ago.


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## Junebug86

Blondilocks said:


> Why did he confess out of the blue? He must be in his early eighties, now - is he trying to get right with the Lord before he kicks the bucket?


My guess is he has been feeling poorly about this for a long time. It’s not like my husband to be dishonest on any level. He said it has disturbed him and he wonders how he could have done this. And claims he was never unhappy with me or our marriage. That I don’t understand.


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> JuneBug, I know you’re seeking others thoughts about this one question and not so much the rest of the infidelity, but can I ask why? Why this is this aspect concerning you so much?
> 
> Are you concerned about your husband healing from that vulnerability? That wouldn’t make sense after 15 years though. Even a realization of the exposure now would be fairly easy to deal with mentally I would think.
> 
> Are you wanting him to understand the gravity and impact of his screw up? If so, I would suggest as I did before, that is focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> Your comments seem to suggest he’s doing everything he can to make this right, but your tone also suggests you aren’t getting through this very well. Perhaps you are looking for a scapegoat for your pain (the spouse poaching)?
> 
> My opinion from this side of the keyboard is that you should remain focused on healing from the affair, without somehow trying to justify it in your mind. There is no justification and nothing will make this better. If healing means doing it without your husband, then so be it. Adultery comes with heavy consequences, oftentimes even heavier for spouses and families than the adulterer. But this doesn’t have to end your marriage if you don’t want it too. Regardless, you should find a way to be happy.


This is a man that I love, we have spent 34 years together, the behavior was not of his character and even he cannot answer by he did it. He told the therapist, ego, insecure, weak, thrill seeking, environment, opportunity and booze. No excuses, he has accepted full responsibility for his behavior.
I am trying to figure out why anyone would take such a huge risk? It doesn’t make sense.


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> This is a man that I love, we have spent 34 years together, the behavior was not of his character and even he cannot answer by he did it. He told the therapist, ego, insecure, weak, thrill seeking, environment, opportunity and booze. No excuses, he has accepted full responsibility for his behavior.
> I am trying to figure out why anyone would take such a huge risk? It doesn’t make sense.


Good luck with that question. I’ll save you some time. He did it because he wanted too. Plain and simple. His brain allowed him to make that choice because his emotions and lust was greater than his love for everything else.

Nobody ever gets satisfactory answers to ”why”. I’ve been 35 years away form my xWayward and still have no clue. the temptation is to blame myself, and I did for Many many years. But it’s a lie. there is no good answer for the Betrayed Spouse. Cheaters have broken stuff in their heads that lets it be “ok” under the right circumstances.


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## Junebug86

Laurentium said:


> Well, I work with couples where this has happened, quite often. Personally, my line to him would be less like "you got played", and more like "do you understand the impact of this on your partner?" Do you think he does, now? If not, that needs talking about.


Oh yes, our therapist did tell him the same thing. My husband is highly educated (three engineering degrees from an Ivy League school) and he hates feeling stupid. She dropped a bombed on and by the way, he likes the matter of fact way she is. She informed him that he is simply not hot enough that women would simply fall to their knees for an opportunity to give him a blow job. 

Yes, my husband clearly understands the hurt, damage and pain he has created. I go months without having a flair up and then there will be a trigger. 

So, can you share what you personally think this kind of risky behavior is about?


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## The Narcissist's Wife

Junebug86 said:


> This is a man that I love, we have spent 34 years together, the behavior was not of his character and even he cannot answer by he did it. He told the therapist, ego, insecure, weak, thrill seeking, environment, opportunity and booze. No excuses, he has accepted full responsibility for his behavior.
> I am trying to figure out why anyone would take such a huge risk? It doesn’t make sense.


There may not be much reading into it then no real depth into why he did what he did. It sounds as if he has otherwise been a good man. Don't torture yourself or your remaining years if u truly believe to this to have been a one time thing. Sometimes we cannot find all the answers. Sometimes we must just accept that we are all human and have faults and can make mistakes at one time or another. If he has other offenses throughout your marriage that would be another thing..but it appears it was just with this one woman. It does not sound as if he loved her by any means or even cared for her. That may help or it may not. I am sorry u are dealing with such turmoil but I do worry that u will never get the answers u seek to understand why he did what he did..just try not to torment yourself over it.


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## Sfort

Junebug86 said:


> He says he has no idea why he did it and the therapist has been working with him on this. Why would anyone risk losing their marriage and parting with a significant amount of money? For what? He even says it’s crazy what he did.
> 
> 
> Junebug86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He said it has disturbed him and he wonders how he could have done this. And claims he was never unhappy with me or our marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Junebug86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> even he cannot answer by he did it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're new here, so don't take this comment the wrong way. Most of us here could have written these answers for him. They are cookie cutter cheater responses. You seem to be coming to grips with what happened, but don't let me put words in your mouth. You seem to be struggling with why. Here's the answer: He did it for the fun and excitement. He did it because he wanted to. A hard **** has no conscience. At the time, the BJs (and whatever else happened) were all that mattered. Deal with the consequences later.
Click to expand...


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## In Absentia

Junebug86 said:


> So, has anyone been in a situation like this before?


Not really...  Why are you still with this POS?


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## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> Not really...  Why are you still with this POS?


Kinda my question through the whole thing. This "it's not his fault, he was tricked by the other woman" is a pretty ridiculous narrative. I mean, who respects a man so stupid that he's that easily fooled? He doesn't sound like a very good person, I'm not sure I get it.


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## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> He doesn't sound like a very good person, I'm not sure I get it.


Apparently, she still loves him!


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## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> Apparently, she still loves him!


Or does she love not being alone? Does she love the money and the comfort? Does she love the stability and fears being alone (especially if they're older)? It's hard for me to believe she loves him, it doesn't sound like there's anything lovable about him.


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## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> Or does she love not being alone? Does she love the money and the comfort? Does she love the stability and fears being alone (especially if they're older)? It's hard for me to believe she loves him, it doesn't sound like there's anything lovable about him.


Yeah, I do agree, but human beings are funny creatures... I really don't understand how you can still love a man like this and try to repair this "marriage".... sorry to be harsh, OP, but I really don't get it.


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## Openminded

You’ll never find the answers you’re looking for. I didn’t. I was married to a cheater for 45 years before I finally got out. He couldn't explain his behavior and he didn’t want a divorce. He was very well respected in the community and in his career and his behavior was totally out of character but there it was. The best answer I decided on was because he wanted to. And he was willing to risk everything for it.


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## Junebug86

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> There may not be much reading into it then no real depth into why he did what he did. It sounds as if he has otherwise been a good man. Don't torture yourself or your remaining years if u truly believe to this to have been a one time thing. Sometimes we cannot find all the answers. Sometimes we must just accept that we are all human and have faults and can make mistakes at one time or another. If he has other offenses throughout your marriage that would be another thing..but it appears it was just with this one woman. It does not sound as if he loved her by any means or even cared for her. That may help or it may not. I am sorry u are dealing with such turmoil but I do worry that u will never get the answers u seek to understand why he did what he did..just try not to torment yourself over it.


He has been a great husband and that’s what has made this more confusing. In my post, I am describing the situation, not making excuses for his behavior which I don’t think others read that way. He says there is no excuse for what he did period. No, he did not love her or emotionally involved in anyway. She is a real rough woman, he just wasn’t wise to her reputation. Pretty stupid man in this area. He did laugh and say maybe, I had to get drunk because she was one large ugly woman.


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## Laurentium

Junebug86 said:


> So, can you share what you personally think this kind of risky behavior is about?


"Was about". Not "is about".

No, I don't know enough about him to speculate, and there's no point. You can never get the answer to that question.

The important question is: _has he changed?_ If he's really felt how much hurt he caused, it may have changed him. That does sometimes happen. On the other hand, many commenters here will basically think that cheaters never change. You can only judge this by how he talks about what happened. Not what he says, but how he talks.


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## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> I’m interested in why you think you need to forgive him?
> He made many decisions over and over to cause harm to you and your marriage.
> What makes you think he won’t do it again?
> 
> what has he done to work on his weak boundaries and complete disrespect for you?


Lots of therapy, apology and has begged me to forgive him. He knows what he did was horrible.


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## Junebug86

Laurentium said:


> "Was about". Not "is about".
> 
> No, I don't know enough about him to speculate, and there's no point. You can never get the answer to that question.
> 
> The important question is: _has he changed?_ If he's really felt how much hurt he caused, it may have changed him. That does sometimes happen. On the other hand, many commenters here will basically think that cheaters never change. You can only judge this by how he talks about what happened. Not what he says, but how he talks.


He has a difficult time talking about it but, knows he doesn’t have a choice if I need to discuss matters. His comments always include, I hate what I did to our marriage, damaged the only woman that I ever loved, etc. A marriage of 30 years, 34 years together is hard to throw away. We have had a life filled with lots of times, memories, been through tough times together. People always think they will leave a marriage if they discover infidelity, but I think it’s more complicated than that. If this had been a short term marriage, no doubt I would walk away.


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## Diana7

Junebug86 said:


> He has a difficult time talking about it but, knows he doesn’t have a choice if I need to discuss matters. His comments always include, I hate what I did to our marriage, damaged the only woman that I ever loved, etc. A marriage of 30 years, 34 years together is hard to throw away. We have had a life filled with lots of times, memories, been through tough times together. People always think they will leave a marriage if they discover infidelity, but I think it’s more complicated than that. If this had been a short term marriage, no doubt I would walk away.


It can be more complicated than that but it doesn't have to be. For many adultery is a total no no and can't be got over.


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## In Absentia

Junebug86 said:


> He has been a great husband


By cheating on you with a large, ugly, rough woman? Not that it matters if she is large, ugly or rough... but maybe it's even more humiliating for you. You don't see it, do you...


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## BeyondRepair007

In Absentia said:


> By cheating on you with a large, ugly, rough woman? Not that it matters if she is large, ugly or rough... but maybe it's even more humiliating for you. You don't see it, do you...


Exactly what I thought. The alcohol helped, yea sure. But if she had been a babe?

The adultery was about her attitude, willingness, and availability … nothing more. She happened to be there when his **** was hard and he went for it. Call it whatever you want…that’s the long and short of it.

For many, that would be a deal breaker. For others, they can live with it although less (or changed) happiness.


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## Junebug86

In Absentia said:


> By cheating on you with a large, ugly, rough woman? Not that it matters if she is large, ugly or rough... but maybe it's even more humiliating for you. You don't see it, do you...


Absolutely do see it! It is humiliating.


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## Junebug86

TexasMom1216 said:


> Or does she love not being alone? Does she love the money and the comfort? Does she love the stability and fears being alone (especially if they're older)? It's hard for me to believe she loves him, it doesn't sound like there's anything lovable about him.


Not afraid of being alone. If I left and took my share, my lifestyle wouldn’t change a bit.


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## Diana7

Junebug86 said:


> Absolutely do see it! It is humiliating.


Have you seen this lady? Otherwise he could be lying about what she is like.


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## Junebug86

TexasMom1216 said:


> Kinda my question through the whole thing. This "it's not his fault, he was tricked by the other woman" is a pretty ridiculous narrative. I mean, who respects a man so stupid that he's that easily fooled? He doesn't sound like a very good person, I'm not sure I get it.


No, he is clearly responsible. What’s difficult for me is a woman would be involved in this. The professionals have said, financial interest. Not making excuses for him. What he did is ****ty.


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## Openminded

Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.


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## TexasMom1216

Junebug86 said:


> No, he is clearly responsible. What’s difficult for me is a woman would be involved in this. The professionals have said, financial interest. Not making excuses for him. What he did is ****ty.


I have never understood the mentality of “the other woman.” Why? Clearly the man is garbage or he wouldn’t cheat on his wife. What possibly could be attractive? Unless she was planning to blackmail him. Plus some women think they’re somehow special enough to “steal” a man. I do not get that at all. No respect for the sisterhood, just awful.


----------



## sokillme

I would get a different therapist, one that specializes in affair trauma. Your husband wasn't "targeted" by someone. He was a grown ass adult and chose to have and affair. That is the starting point and the truth. If you are to survive you have to start with a foundation of truth to do that, not excuses and victimhood. If not you are going to flounder.

People cheat because they want to and they can. There is no secret mystery that is going to make it understandable more then that does. There is nothing anyone can say to make it acceptable. It's important that you believe the most basic truth because any other reasons, if you brake them down don't make a lot of logical sense. For instance if it's childhood why doesn't everyone with a poor childhood do it? Nope it's just a choice. Maybe he was lonely or maybe he was bored but in the end his poor character led him to solve those problems by looking outside his marriage.

It's up to him to figure out what is wrong with his character and fix it. 

Besides that he lied to you for years which is also abuse. He stole your ability to make and informed choice, to give consent because you were not given all the information about your future. Not many things work like that but all are horrible abusive things to do to a person.

I think the BS has to decide, knowing what I just wrote, if the quality of their life going forward will be worth staying. Because at the end of the day you are going to get to this point anyway. It will just take longer as you chase down every wild goose chase of an excuse. Like he was targeted. It will just prolong your suffering because as you reason it out it will never make sense. How does a grown ass many get targeted to do something he already knows is wrong in the first place. Can you be targeted to rob a bank for instance? Makes no sense. You can spend years trying to force yourself to believe that though, knowing in your subconscious that it's ********. Continuing to worry because you have to believe something that is fundamentally. Struggling because you are having a hard time accepting it, but you are supposed to be healing. I am convinced this is why so many people do suffer. The are forcing themselves to believe stuff they know is not true.

Doesn't it make more sense that this grown ass man was bored and saw an opportunity to have some excitement while his wife is dealing with a difficult time in her life that caused her to be less attentive. He decides no one well ever know so what's the harm, not really realizing he is harming himself in the process. That comes later. That makes a lot more sense, but he knows if he tells you that the chances of the marriage surviving are worse. By the way if the counselor you are going to is a marriage counselor, then they know the chances of the marriage surviving are worse too. The counselors commitment is to saving the marriage because that is what the vast majority of their clients pay them for. If it was known that they were not about that, they wouldn't be very successful.

People cheat because they want to and they can, they have opportunity. They just don't care about their spouse while it going on. It's really that simple, nothing deep about it.


----------



## sokillme

Junebug86 said:


> He has a difficult time talking about it but, knows he doesn’t have a choice if I need to discuss matters. His comments always include, I hate what I did to our marriage, damaged the only woman that I ever loved, etc. A marriage of 30 years, 34 years together is hard to throw away. We have had a life filled with lots of times, memories, been through tough times together. People always think they will leave a marriage if they discover infidelity, but I think it’s more complicated than that. If this had been a short term marriage, no doubt I would walk away.


Is it really more complicated, or is it that it just sucks and is hard. Everyone who ever left a marriage in this kind of circumstance felt exactly like you do right now, they just choose to leave anyway.

Seems to me if you want to stay in the marriage you are going to have to just learn to live with it. But I would warn you about believing that you have the entire truth. Cheaters lie and they are well practiced and good at it. Already he seems to be playing the - "little red riding hood" card. The big bad wolf tricked me.


----------



## Junebug86

Diana7 said:


> Have you seen this lady? Otherwise he could be lying about what she is like.


I know the woman! She worked for us.


----------



## Junebug86

Openminded said:


> Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.


So, you do understand this, am I correct? I am not making excuses for my husband on any level. He has taken full responsibility for his actions. He never had to tell me in the first place. I’m sure it was eating away at him and has been for a long time. Like I told my husband, if you are going to risk everything why not go for someone worth losing it all for? BTW, the woman wasn’t some hot young thing, she is older than me.


----------



## Blondilocks

So, your husband is around 20 years older than you? Is he still sexually active? When he confessed, had he been feeling 'less than' for some reason?

It is just so odd that he did not take this to his grave, especially considering he would not have had to carry the burden that much longer. Instead, he would rather destroy your world so he could gain peace of mind? Sorry, I'm not buying that reasoning. He had 14 years to deal with his conscience.


----------



## Junebug86

Blondilocks said:


> So, your husband is around 20 years older than you? Is he still sexually active? When he confessed, had he been feeling 'less than' for some reason?
> 
> It is just so odd that he did not take this to his grave, especially considering he would not have had to carry the burden that much longer. Instead, he would rather destroy your world so he could gain peace of mind? Sorry, I'm not buying that reasoning. He had 14 years to deal with his conscience.


Yes and we are still sexually active. In recent years, we have found ourselves much closer. My husband has become more emotional in the last 10 years or so. I agree, why now after all these years? My guess is because one of my girlfriends husband passed away and she found out that her husband had been involved in a full blown affair for several years with one of his employees. The AP filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against her husband the day he died. He was a CEO of a big company and they gave her a settlement. My husband saw the damage it did to my friend. She was complete devastated. Also, I told my husband that I can handle the truth no matter how painful it is but, I couldn’t handle being in a situation like my friend. Honestly, I am glad he told me and he has had to deal with the pain he has created.


----------



## Junebug86

Diana7 said:


> Have you seen this lady? Otherwise he could be lying about what she is like.


 I know the woman, she worked for us part time. 



TexasMom1216 said:


> These are his choices. He made them, and will make them again given the opportunity, especially if the message is that “he was tricked” and it’s not his fault. This is a flaw within him, and he thoughtlessly hurt you because he was only thinking of what he wanted. Why would you stay with someone who cares so little for you? Life is awfully short to put up with this kind of treatment.





In Absentia said:


> Yeah, I do agree, but human beings are funny creatures... I really don't understand how you can still love a man like this and try to repair this "marriage".... sorry to be harsh, OP, but I really don't get it.


----------



## Junebug86

Diana7 said:


> Have you seen this lady? Otherwise he could be lying about what she is like.


 I know the woman, she worked for us part time.


Openminded said:


> Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.


----------



## Junebug86

Openminded said:


> Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.


What did you learn and how did you come to the conclusion that’s what the AP wanted? Can you describe the kind of things she would do?


----------



## Junebug86

Openminded said:


> Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.





Openminded said:


> Of course she was after his money. My exH‘s AP wanted my life — 100% of it. She didn’t get it though. When I finally divorced him he very quickly remarried but he didn’t marry her. She wasn’t good enough.


Can you describe the kind of behavior that made you come to the conclusion that the AP wanted your life?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Wow. You and your creative 'therapist' sure have been hard at work trying to downplay your husband's nasty behavior and make it all about the bar fly with fake boobs, and ascribing what her intentions were.

Who GIVES a rat's ass what her *intentions* were? Your husband saw an opportunity to get himself some side action and he jumped all over it. *Period*. 

Cheaters cheat because they want to and because they can. The reasons for his behavior are exactly as HE described - he was weak and had poor boundaries.

This is all on HIM, not the floozy.


----------



## Junebug86

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Wow. You and your creative 'therapist' sure have been hard at work trying to downplay your husband's nasty behavior and make it all about the bar fly with fake boobs, and ascribing what her intentions were.
> 
> Who GIVES a rat's ass what her *intentions* were? Your husband saw an opportunity to get himself some side action and he jumped all over it. *Period*.
> 
> Cheaters cheat because they want to and because they can. The reasons for his behavior are exactly as HE described - he was weak and had poor boundaries.
> 
> This is all on HIM, not the floozy.


I wasn’t asking for your critique of what happen, or about the therapist chose, we know his behavior was his doing period! My questions were to see if anyone else has been through something similar. The two therapist we saw, one was a psychologist and the other a LCSW both came to the same conclusion. You see there are men and woman out there that are predators and looking for more than sex and a relationship. 



She'sStillGotIt said:


> Wow. You and your creative 'therapist' sure have been hard at work trying to downplay your husband's nasty behavior and make it all about the bar fly with fake boobs, and ascribing what her intentions were.
> 
> Who GIVES a rat's ass what her *intentions* were? Your husband saw an opportunity to get himself some side action and he jumped all over it. *Period*.
> 
> Cheaters cheat because they want to and because they can. The reasons for his behavior are exactly as HE described - he was weak and had poor boundaries.
> 
> This is all on HIM, not the floozy.
> [/
> 
> 
> Beach123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So he’s mainly selfish and self serving then, eh?
> even needing you to forgive him is him being self serving.
> Do you stay because there is money within the marriage?
> Would you have half the money if you left him?
Click to expand...


----------



## Beach123

Junebug86 said:


> This is a man that I love, we have spent 34 years together, the behavior was not of his character and even he cannot answer by he did it. He told the therapist, ego, insecure, weak, thrill seeking, environment, opportunity and booze. No excuses, he has accepted full responsibility for his behavior.
> I am trying to figure out why anyone would take such a huge risk? It doesn’t make sense.


Because he wanted his ego stroked.
Because he’s greedy and wanted two helpings.
Because he wasn’t considering your feelings at all.

if he’s been unable to recognize that about himself after a lot of therapy - the problem is bigger than you thought! He’s not honest about himself.

Quit saying it’s a great marriage. He did this to you and it ruined everything good that you USED to have.


----------



## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> Because he wanted his ego stroked.
> Because he’s greedy and wanted two helpings.
> Because he wasn’t considering your feelings at all.
> 
> if he’s been unable to recognize that about himself after a lot of therapy - the problem is bigger than you thought! He’s not honest about himself.
> 
> Quit saying it’s a great marriage. He did this to you and it ruined everything good that you USED to have.


Are you a man hater, angry, been burned a few times? What gives you the right to tell me to Quit saying it’s a great marriage? You don’t know us, to say it ruined everything good that I use to have is to make a lot of judgement and assumptions. Where did you get your credentials in family counseling?


----------



## Beach123

You asked for input. Why are you so hateful for anyone assessing here with input you don’t like?
You can’t grow any relationship if you don’t take a solid look at unemotional assessment. I have only worked from the info you provided.

and ps…ive Never been hateful…never will be.

I stand by the reasons I gave. He’s greedy and wanted his ego stroked.

defending his bad behavior doesn’t make it be not bad behavior.


----------



## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> You asked for input. Why are you so hateful for anyone assessing here with input you don’t like?
> You can’t grow any relationship if you don’t take a solid look at unemotional assessment. I have only worked from the info you provided.
> 
> and ps…ive Never been hateful…never will be.
> 
> I stand by the reasons I gave. He’s greedy and wanted his ego stroked.
> 
> defending his bad behavior doesn’t make it be not bad behavior.


You didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know or acknowledge in my post. Your input didn’t answer the question that I asked.


----------



## Beach123

Junebug86 said:


> Forgiveness is for me, not him. The marriage is healing. What I would like to know more about is what is going on deep down inside a person. He says he has no idea why he did it and the therapist has been working with him on this. Why would anyone risk losing their marriage and parting with a significant amount of money? For what? He even says it’s crazy what he did.


I did answer your question.
You didn’t like the answer.

why hasn’t HE figured out what his problem is?
It’s always the same answer. He just may not admit it.

I’m old. I’ve lived through a LOT. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like my very real answer… it’s the honest answer.


----------



## Beach123

Any why is he making himself look like the victim with all the guilt and shame? It looks backwards!


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## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> Any why is he making himself look like the victim with all the guilt and shame? It looks backwards!


He has not made himself the victim. I am not interested in your comments.


----------



## Blondilocks

Junebug86 said:


> He did laugh and say maybe, I had to get drunk because she was one large ugly woman.


See, this puts the lie to 'he is full of remorse'. It would make me so angry that he could laugh about it that I would see red.

Obviously, he figured that you would never find out - that is if he gave any thought to you or your marriage at all. I don't think you are going to find answers to your questions. It would all be speculation, even from your husband. 

Since he will never experience any consequences, maybe you can entertain yourself with telling him what you are going to spend all his money on when he croaks.


----------



## Junebug86

Junebug86 said:


> I know the woman, she worked for us part time.


Nobody else can understand another person’s situation. What works for one person might not work for another. I think Esther Perel is brilliant in her talks on infidelity.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> Nobody else can understand another person’s situation. What works for one person might not work for another. I think Esther Perel is brilliant in her talks on infidelity.


Junebug, I’d like to ask again what you are trying to get to here with your post.
What is it your trying to understand about the AP motives.

Are you just looking for confirmation that the counselor is right?
Or additional information to convince yourself?
Or something else?
I’m trying to understand what you are seeking and why.

This thread has taken the turn that it did because it comes off like a cheater is getting away with hurting his wife, and that’s what folks are reacting too.

Maybe it would help if you can explain what it is you’re trying to solve and why.


----------



## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> JuneBug, I’d like to ask again what you are trying to get to here with your post.
> What is it your trying to understand about the AP motives.
> 
> Are you just looking for confirmation that the counselor is right?
> Or additional information to convince yourself?
> Or something else?
> I’m trying to understand what you are seeking and why.
> 
> This thread has taken the turn that it did because it comes off like a cheater is getting away with hurting his wife, and that’s what folks are reacting too.
> 
> Maybe it would help if you can explain what it is you’re trying to solve and why.


My husband has not gotten away with hurting me on any level. I believe both of the therapists, my husband did think that what their takeaway was that he had the opportunity, environment of a bar, booze, loss of inhibitions, ego and thrill seeking. He knows that I will never see him as the person that I knew, lost respect for him. He’s always thought of himself as a man of integrity, he lost that. 

Why do I want to know, it’s difficult for me to understand why any woman behave in the manner she did? When the therapist asked if there was a position she was looking for, maybe gotten into debt, perhaps using the friendship/boss card to distract him so that she could steal. I am trying to understand why a woman would lower themselves to giving oral sex in hopes that there would be financial reward or as I said earlier, a potential sexual harassment lawsuit. I have known of other women that have targeted wealthy married men. But, their approach was quite different. I know studies show that 86% of affairs begin in the workforce which make sense. Both therapist told us after they heard my husband’s story, this woman was after something and it wasn’t sex. Sex would be the means to get what she wanted which was financially driven. I personally don’t know women that do this. Although, I did know this woman as she worked for us.

We have had plenty of time in counseling, plenty of discussions at home about this. I wasn’t asking for advice about what to do. That has been taken care of and resolved. I am just trying to understand what middle aged woman goes around doing this? It’s like being a predator on many levels. She also worked at another bar where she was known to service men but, I think they were giving her cash. Might I had, that these men were all war veterans.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> why a woman would lower themselves to giving oral sex in hopes that there would be financial reward or as I said earlier, a potential sexual harassment lawsuit


Well, to be frank, women all over the world do this regularly (prostitution, sex workers, etc). It’s the same idea, except in your case the potential reward was much higher.

The pursuit of money causes really bad behavior in men and women daily, I doubt this comes as a suprise or shock to you. So what’s different about this woman? Probably nothing.


----------



## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Well, to be frank, women all over the world do this regularly (prostitution, sex workers, etc). It’s the same idea, except in your case the potential reward was much higher.
> 
> The pursuit of money causes really bad behavior in men and women daily, I doubt this comes as a suprise or shock to you. So what’s different about this woman? Probably nothing.


As my husband said, he made a bad decision, his ego got puffed up, isn’t exactly a chick magnet, throw in some booze and geez. This woman was giant size with buck teeth and was crossed eyed. As I told my husband, if you are going to risk your marriage please pick something better than that. Who knows what might have happened if we hadn’t sold the business.  She might have slapped him with a sexual harassment suit. Maybe, she really is a sex worker.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> As my husband said, he made a bad decision, his ego got puffed up, isn’t exactly a chick magnet, throw in some booze and geez. This woman was giant size with buck teeth and was crossed eyed. As I told my husband, if you are going to risk your marriage please pick something better than that. Who knows what might have happened if we hadn’t sold the business. She might have slapped him with a sexual harassment suit. Maybe, she really is a sex worker.


I’m not saying she is or isn’t a sex worker…just that greed can lead people to do awful **** and a blowjob is probably nowhere near the top of the awfulness.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Junebug86 said:


> I am trying to understand why a woman would lower themselves to giving oral sex in hopes that there would be financial reward


You just literally described marriage for most of history. 🙄

Look, I get it. You've decided to stay with your husband despite his infidelities and focusing on the other woman, blaming her for the affair, makes it easier to stay with him. I wish I could give you the big independence speech I gave my friend after the first time she found evidence of her husband's infidelity, but I don't think you want that. You want validation that you were right to take him back. Only you can answer that question, though. If you're going to stay with him, you are going to have to let it go. If you tell him it's ok, it doesn't matter and it's "in the past," then you have to actually forget about it and stop thinking about it. If you're just coming here to vent so you won't talk to him about it, then tell me so, because I have been searching for the same thing for a different reason: a safe place to express feelings you don't feel ready to share.

The most important thing that I would want you to understand is this: No matter who is to blame for your husband's affairs, one thing is certain: the person to blame is definitely, most assuredly NOT YOU. You are the actual victim here. How you proceed is your choice and your choice alone. I hope you can find some peace.


----------



## Junebug86

TexasMom1216 said:


> You just literally described marriage for most of history. 🙄
> 
> Look, I get it. You've decided to stay with your husband despite his infidelities and focusing on the other woman, blaming her for the affair, makes it easier to stay with him. I wish I could give you the big independence speech I gave my friend after the first time she found evidence of her husband's infidelity, but I don't think you want that. You want validation that you were right to take him back. Only you can answer that question, though. If you're going to stay with him, you are going to have to let it go. If you tell him it's ok, it doesn't matter and it's "in the past," then you have to actually forget about it and stop thinking about it. If you're just coming here to vent so you won't talk to him about it, then tell me so, because I have been searching for the same thing for a different reason: a safe place to express feelings you don't feel ready to share.
> 
> The most important thing that I would want you to understand is this: No matter who is to blame for your husband's affairs, one thing is certain: the person to blame is definitely, most assuredly NOT YOU. You are the actual victim here. How you proceed is your choice and your choice alone. I hope you can find some peace.


I blame my husband 100%. Actually, feel sorry for any woman who does what she does. Just trying to understand it. I don’t need to vent, just wanted to hear other people’s experience. One member mentioned, where is the sisterhood? I am sure there must be women in power positions that get hit on too or hit on their staff. I think the thing is sex is really about power.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Junebug86 said:


> I blame my husband 100%. Actually, feel sorry for any woman who does what she does. Just trying to understand it. I don’t need to vent, just wanted to hear other people’s experience. One member mentioned, where is the sisterhood? I am sure there must be women in power positions that get hit on too or hit on their staff. I think the thing is sex is really about power.


Sex isn't about power, power is about power. She wasn't trying to have power over anything; even if she wanted money, she just wanted money, not power. Money is WAY more powerful than sex. Why do you think there are men who are so upset that women can work? Because money gave men power over women, which gave them total control of sex (power over sex). For centuries, women had to prostitute themselves for room and board, and ended up tethered to a man through children that she couldn't feed, clothe, shelter or protect without him. Now a woman can support herself and when the man says. "Oh gosh she tempted me it's not my fault I was a victim of her and she was selling herself for money and I couldn't resist because women tempt men to do bad things that aren't their fault," now we can leave. We can support ourselves and our children with dignity.


----------



## SunCMars

What she lacked in physical attraction was overcome by her own charismatic id.

The barmaid is well practiced in the art of seduction. She probably has a hundred notches on her bed post.

She appealed to his lizard brain and subdued his ego.

Many older men do not have the same mental fortitude that younger men possess.

His then, age, and the dulling effect of alcohol sent his super-ego prohibitions out of the window.

No excuse, just my take.


----------



## Beach123

Women can manipulate men with sex all day long. The issue isn’t why she did it - it’s seriously why your husband said yes.

and the bigger problem is that he doesn’t know why he did it. If he doesn’t learn why - he’s likely to do it again. She may not have been pretty - but what happens next time when the woman actually is pretty and feeds his fragile ego?

and for the record - men who don’t have money cheat too - so it’s not about the money - especially since she didn’t ask your husband for money.

he did it because he thought he could get away with it. That’s another reason - men do when they think they won’t get caught.


----------



## Laurentium

Junebug86 said:


> Nobody else can understand another person’s situation.


This is very true. The best we can do is for different people on here to give their different reactions, and that can give some idea of the range of possibilities. We will rarely all agree.


----------



## Junebug86

SunCMars said:


> What she lacked in physical attraction was overcome by her own charismatic id.
> 
> The barmaid is well practiced in the art of seduction. She probably has a hundred notches on her bed post.
> 
> She appealed to his lizard brain and subdued his ego.
> 
> Many older men do not have the same mental fortitude that younger men possess.
> 
> His then, age, and the dulling effect of alcohol sent his super-ego prohibitions out of the window.
> 
> No excuse, just my take.





SunCMars said:


> What she lacked in physical attraction was overcome by her own charismatic id.
> 
> The barmaid is well practiced in the art of seduction. She probably has a hundred notches on her bed post.
> 
> She appealed to his lizard brain and subdued his ego.
> 
> Many older men do not have the same mental fortitude that younger men possess.
> 
> His then, age, and the dulling effect of alcohol sent his super-ego prohibitions out of the window.
> 
> No excuse, just my take.


Thank you for answering my question. My question has never been about whether my husband was right/wrong or whether I was leaving the marriage, etc. If dealing with me eye to eye wasn’t painful enough, time with the therapists certainly put his ego back in check. Just trying to figure out as a woman, why other women do this. You are correct in your analysis, similar to what both of the professionals we saw told us. As one of the therapist said to my husband, you aren’t that hot, what makes you think the bartender just couldn’t resist you and it was her pleasure to lick your creamsicle? 
What makes you so wise to this scenario?


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> What makes you so wise to this scenario?


I have a thought here, not to steal any thunder from @SunCMars

And since I see you posting elsewhere, it’s good to say this I think.

Sun isn’t especially wise in this scenario compared to other posters. Really none of us are. We have our own experiences and it shapes the way we process and communicate.

Many people in this thread were telling you the same thing that Sun did. But it didn’t connect with you so well.

Sun just said it in a way that connected and resonated with you. That’s the key when you’re posting…conveying your experience and opinion is one thing, but connecting with the OP is another.

Just FYI as you post on other threads. Sometimes you say the perfect thing but the OP hears something different. Sometimes it really resonates with the OP and a light is turned on. But all voices are good to hear. Lots of people use 2x4s to try to facilitate this awakening…you had some too and fought back


----------



## SunCMars

We are over-looking the barmaids own pressing need for recognition.

Ugly, or not, it was likely present.

'Yes, Junebug's husband was not that physical specimen (so much), but, he was the owner, her boss.

That raised his status and made him a target.

For her, it was fun, a conquest.

To get nice tips she needs to make men (and women) customers feel special.
This is where her (likely) years of (schmoozing) practice showed through.

Through daily talk, she likely found Junebug's husbands vulnerabilities.
Maybe he was in a low place, at the time?

I can only assume, Junebug's husband got a thrill from it.

Woman are woman, men are men, and most want to be stroked, in some manner.

Life can be a very lonely place and others can fill the void, temporarily or permanently, as in marriage.


----------



## MattMatt

The probability is that he got very drunk in order to give himself plausible deniability so that he could be able to tell himself it wasn't his fault, because he was really, really drunk.

How do I know this? Been there, done that. However, the problem is that next day you wake up with a hangover and the knowledge that you really, seriously messed up and cheated on your wife/husband.


----------



## SunCMars

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I have a thought here, not to steal any thunder from @SunCMars
> 
> And since I see you posting elsewhere, it’s good to say this I think.
> 
> Sun isn’t especially wise in this scenario compared to other posters. Really none of us are. We have our own experiences and it shapes the way we process and communicate.
> 
> Many people in this thread were telling you the same thing that Sun did. But it didn’t connect with you so well.
> 
> Sun just said it in a way that connected and resonated with you. That’s the key when you’re posting…conveying your experience and opinion is one thing, but connecting with the OP is another.
> 
> Just FYI as you post on other threads. Sometimes you say the perfect thing but the OP hears something different. Sometimes it really resonates with the OP and a light is turned on. But all voices are good to hear. Lots of people use 2x4s to try to facilitate this awakening…you had some too and fought back




Aye, we are oft-times those tuning forks. those tuned-in folks.


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I have a thought here, not to steal any thunder from @SunCMars
> 
> And since I see you posting elsewhere, it’s good to say this I think.
> 
> Sun isn’t especially wise in this scenario compared to other posters. Really none of us are. We have our own experiences and it shapes the way we process and communicate.
> 
> Many people in this thread were telling you the same thing that Sun did. But it didn’t connect with you so well.
> 
> Sun just said it in a way that connected and resonated with you. That’s the key when you’re posting…conveying your experience and opinion is one thing, but connecting with the OP is another.
> 
> Just FYI as you post on other threads. Sometimes you say the perfect thing but the OP hears something different. Sometimes it really resonates with the OP and a light is turned on. But all voices are good to hear. Lots of people use 2x4s to try to facilitate this awakening…you had some too and fought back


No, he answered my questioned. I wasn’t looking for marriage advice.


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## Blondilocks

Yep, blame it on alcohol and a bimbo.


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> No, he answered my questioned. I wasn’t looking for marriage advice.


I lot of people come to TAM asking the wrong question. It's very common. For example the thread you're in about 'wife won't give details' Really? That's the concern there? Not the cheating part?

But anyway, I'm glad you got the answers you were seeking.


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I lot of people come to TAM asking the wrong question. It's very common. For example the thread you're in about 'wife won't give details' Really? That's the concern there? Not the cheating part?
> 
> But anyway, I'm glad you got the answers you were seeking.


We have addressed the cheating part with paid professionals. I know where we are with his betrayal. It’s your opinion that I asked the wrong question. No, I asked the question I wanted to ask. Who are you to judge me? I feel like you are stalking my posts.


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> We have addressed the cheating part with paid professionals. I know where we are with his betrayal. It’s your opinion that I asked the wrong question. No, I asked the question I wanted to ask. Who are you to judge me? I feel like you are stalking my posts.


My apologies Junebug. I was not doing that at all. I will discontinue interacting with you and hope that you are not further bothered by me or my posts.


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## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> Yep, blame it on alcohol and a bimbo.


She was no bimbo...


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## Junebug86

SunCMars said:


> We are over-looking the barmaids own pressing need for recognition.
> 
> Ugly, or not, it was likely present.
> 
> 'Yes, Junebug's husband was not that physical specimen (so much), but, he was the owner, her boss.
> 
> That raised his status and made him a target.
> 
> For her, it was fun, a conquest.
> 
> To get nice tips she needs to make men (and women) customers feel special.
> This is where her (likely) years of (schmoozing) practice showed through.
> 
> 
> SunCMars said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are over-looking the barmaids own pressing need for recognition.
> 
> Ugly, or not, it was likely present.
> 
> 'Yes, Junebug's husband was not that physical specimen (so much), but, he was the owner, her boss.
> 
> That raised his status and made him a target.
> 
> For her, it was fun, a conquest.
> 
> To get nice tips she needs to make men (and women) customers feel special.
> This is where her (likely) years of (schmoozing) practice showed through.
> 
> Through daily talk, she likely found Junebug's husbands vulnerabilities.
> Maybe he was in a low place, at the time?
> 
> I can only assume, Junebug's husband got a thrill from it.
> 
> Woman are woman, men are men, and most want to be stroked, in some manner.
> 
> Life can be a very lonely place and others can fill the void, temporarily or permanently, as in marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously understand the scenario. I’m sure my husband was the highest status man this woman ever been with and was probably the biggest nerdiest intellectual she had ever encountered. Of course, she found his vulnerabilities, primarily booze which had been an issue in the marriage. Add the flirting, etc. of course this risky behavior was a big thrill. He was the owner of the place, she knew he owned other businesses, she saw our lifestyle, knew we spent most of our time at our beachfront second home. I’m honestly surprised that she didn’t file a lawsuit but, we sold the business shortly after this all occurred.
> 
> My husband knows what he did he was morally wrong, stupid and no excuse for his behavior. Let me add that my husband was rarely at the restaurant and most of the time, I was with him. Was my husband in a low place at the time, not that I can think of? Had my husband not confessed the fling, I would never have known. He knew what he would be faced with when he told me. It wasn’t easy for him nor, did I let him off the hook. I will say that he has done everything that I asked of him during this time period.
> 
> Through daily talk, she likely found Junebug's husbands vulnerabilities.
> Maybe he was in a low place, at the time?
> 
> I can only assume, Junebug's husband got a thrill from it.
> 
> Woman are woman, men are men, and most want to be stroked, in some manner.
> 
> Life can be a very lonely place and others can fill the void, temporarily or permanently, as in marriage.
Click to expand...


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## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> See, this puts the lie to 'he is full of remorse'. It would make me so angry that he could laugh about it that I would see red.
> 
> *Obviously, he figured that you would never find out* - that is if he gave any thought to you or your marriage at all. I don't think you are going to find answers to your questions. It would all be speculation, even from your husband.
> 
> Since he will never experience any consequences, maybe you can entertain yourself with telling him what you are going to spend all his money on when he croaks.


This post is going to hurt...

It is only conjecture.
I hope I am wrong.
.....................................................................................................

The thing is....he later confessed on his own.

There was only suspicion and no proof.
Junebug pressured him, questioned him at the time, but he laughed if off, saying nothing happened at the time.

Those back and forth emails to the barmaid, that he kept, I assume they did not reveal anything out of the ordinary.
The emails showed that they were friendly, nothing more?

Why did he confess?
Why was this?

Was it after years of badgering him for answers?
Hmm.

Ah, maybe he wanted the questioning to end, so he spilled the beans about getting his flag pole creamed by her.
Oh yes, he likely also did PIV with her, he just did not admit it.

I am sure remorse played a role. And he was weary of lying.

Old age does this, those long held secrets spill out, the once strong will, failing.
He wanted to get this behind him.

I also think that *he held in a lot of hidden resentment* to Junebug's treatment of him, all those prior years, while married.

*No, no, he was not justified, if this was his true reason for cheating.*

But, a reason given, is just that.
People justify all sorts of aberrant behavior.

His admitting his cheating, flipped the tables on their relationship
_She is now the one feeling down-beaten and under-appreciated.
Oh, yeah, and angry._

Life can be wonderful, until it isn't.

Humans are complicated creatures.


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## Junebug86

MattMatt said:


> The probability is that he got very drunk in order to give himself plausible deniability so that he could be able to tell himself it wasn't his fault, because he was really, really drunk.
> 
> How do I know this? Been there, done that. However, the problem is that next day you wake up with a hangover and the knowledge that you really, seriously messed up and cheated on your wife/husband.


Yep, and then you hide that inside a little compartment in your brain.


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## Junebug86

SunCMars said:


> This post is going to hurt...
> 
> It is only conjecture.
> I hope I am wrong.
> .....................................................................................................
> 
> The thing is....he later confessed on his own.
> 
> There was only suspicion and no proof.
> Junebug pressured him, questioned him at the time, but he laughed if off, saying nothing happened at the time.
> 
> Those back and forth emails to the barmaid, that he kept, I assume they did not reveal anything out of the ordinary.
> The emails showed that they were friendly, nothing more?
> 
> Why did he confess?
> Why was this?
> 
> Was it after years of badgering him for answers?
> Hmm.
> 
> Ah, maybe he wanted the questioning to end, so he spilled the beans about getting his flag pole creamed by her.
> Oh yes, he likely also did PIV with her, he just did not admit it.
> 
> I am sure remorse played a role. And he was weary of lying.
> 
> Old age does this, those long held secrets spill out, the once strong will, failing.
> He wanted to get this behind him.
> 
> I also think that *he held in a lot of hidden resentment* toJunebug's treatment of him, all those prior years, while married.
> 
> *No, no, he was not justified, if this was his true reason for cheating.*
> 
> But, a reason given, is just that.
> People justify all sorts of aberrant behavior.
> 
> His admitting his cheating, flipped the tables on their relationship
> _She is now the one feeling down-beaten and under-appreciated.
> Oh, yeah, and angry._
> 
> Life can be wonderful, until it isn't.
> 
> Humans are complicated creatures.


No, I don’t feel beaten down. I know who I have been in our relationship the past 34 years. He was never treated poorly. As he said, why would I do something like that to someone who has been so wonderful throughout our marriage? That’s why he did some individual therapy, he too wants to know why he would something like that. The emails were basic questions like will I get a 1099, etc. There wasn’t much to them. I think once he sold the business, she no longer had a need for him. He couldn’t give her the manager’s position that was open, she couldn’t steal at the bar or service the customers in the parking lot after work, etc.


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## SunCMars

Junebug86 said:


> No, I don’t feel beaten down. I know who I have been in our relationship the past 34 years. He was never treated poorly. As he said, why would I do something like that to someone who has been so wonderful throughout our marriage? That’s why he did some individual therapy, he too wants to know why he would something like that. The emails were basic questions like will I get a 1099, etc. There wasn’t much to them. I think once he sold the business, she no longer had a need for him. He couldn’t give her the manager’s position that was open, she couldn’t steal at the bar or service the customers in the parking lot after work, etc.


OK!

I hope things work out for you two.

God Bless.


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## Junebug86

SunCMars said:


> OK!
> 
> I hope things work out for you two.
> 
> God Bless.


They have, I am not going to let this destroy 34 years of a relationship. People make mistakes, some mistakes are worse than others and this for me was as bad as it gets. We have done as much as we can in counseling. At this stage of our lives, I don’t want to spend the energy on the bad because our relationship has been filled with lots of fun, love and adventure.


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## MattMatt

Junebug86 said:


> Yep, and then you hide that inside a little compartment in your brain.


No. Full confession is the only thing that works. Mine was an idiotic revenge affair.


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## snowbum

The reason he did this was he wanted to have sex with someone else. That's it . And any man that can't give you a reason is pretty lame. Can't tell you why he had relations with someone he said was so ugly he needed to be drunk? Wow. Just wow. He's not looking to find out why he did this. He knows why. She was cool with it and he didn't think about you.


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## Beach123

The real question is - how is he guarded against ever doing it again?

has he quit drinking alcohol altogether?


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## Junebug86

snowbum said:


> The reason he did this was he wanted to have sex with someone else. That's it . And any man that can't give you a reason is pretty lame. Can't tell you why he had relations with someone he said was so ugly he needed to be drunk? Wow. Just wow. He's not looking to find out why he did this. He knows why. She was cool with it and he didn't think about you.


You obviously haven’t read my posts.


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## Junebug86

Beach123 said:


> The real question is - how is he guarded against ever doing it again?
> 
> has he quit drinking alcohol altogether?


Yes, he quit drinking altogether quite awhile ago.


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## Junebug86

snowbum said:


> The reason he did this was he wanted to have sex with someone else. That's it . And any man that can't give you a reason is pretty lame. Can't tell you why he had relations with someone he said was so ugly he needed to be drunk? Wow. Just wow. He's not looking to find out why he did this. He knows why. She was cool with it and he didn't think about you.


You obviously didn’t read my posts.


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## snowbum

then why are you here?


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Good luck with that question. I’ll save you some time. He did it because he wanted too. Plain and simple. His brain allowed him to make that choice because his emotions and lust was greater than his love for everything else.
> 
> Nobody ever gets satisfactory answers to ”why”. I’ve been 35 years away form my xWayward and still have no clue. the temptation is to blame myself, and I did for Many many years. But it’s a lie. there is no good answer for the Betrayed Spouse. Cheaters have broken stuff in their heads that lets it be “ok” under the right circumstances.
> 
> 
> [/


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## Junebug86

I read your story today. It seems like you have betrayed several women and caused a divorce or two. Do you know “why” you strayed?


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## Junebug86

snowbum said:


> then why are you here?





snowbum said:


> then why are you here?


Maybe, if you read my post instead of making assumptions you might learn something.


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## Openminded

Junebug86 said:


> Yes, working with admin and CA office trying to change the name. Obviously, a glitch.


You opened two accounts a year ago around the same time and accidentally used this one today rather than the other?


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## BeyondRepair007

Junebug86 said:


> This is Anna and I have contacted the admin about removing my name. After I paid to upgrade my subscription, I have not been able to make the name change.


Ok, I see Junebug. Then I will reply.

So the question of “why” I did what I did in my younger days will end up with very similar answers to what you’ve heard here about your own husband.

You are correct when reading my story that I have been involved with nearly every type of affair (betrayed, wayward, EA, PA, online, ONS..and so on). All of that was before a major turning point in my life, which is why I do believe people can change.

Before my major turning point, the reasons I committed infidelity were simple. I saw something I wanted and I went for it. Simple as that. Nothing complicated. I didn’t have the moral character or even desire to not do it. And I didn’t have enough love or compassion for who I was with to not do that to them.

In retrospect now I know there were some serious emotional and psychological issues that were caused by both my upbringing and my first wife’s betrayal. But instead of blaming something I prefer to just say that I was a broken person. And it allowed me to do what I wanted…when I wanted. Alcohol helped, as in your husband’s case. But the person beneath was already broken or it never would have happened.

I hope that helps with clarity for your situation.


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## Junebug86

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Ok, I see Junebug. Then I will reply.
> 
> So the question of “why” I did what I did in my younger days will end up with very similar answers to what you’ve heard here about your own husband.
> 
> You are correct when reading my story that I have been involved with nearly every type of affair (betrayed, wayward, EA, PA, online, ONS..and so on). All of that was before a major turning point in my life, which is why I do believe people can change.
> 
> Before my major turning point, the reasons I committed infidelity were simple. I saw something I wanted and I went for it. Simple as that. Nothing complicated. I didn’t have the moral character or even desire to not do it. And I didn’t have enough love or compassion for who I was with to not do that to them.
> 
> In retrospect now I know there were some serious emotional and psychological issues that were caused by both my upbringing and my first wife’s betrayal. But instead of blaming something I prefer to just say that I was a broken person. And it allowed me to do what I wanted…when I wanted. Alcohol helped, as in your husband’s case. But the person beneath was already broken or it never would have happened.
> 
> I hope that helps with clarity for your situation.


It certainly does help. Nobody talks about getting into the deep rooted issues. That’s what we did in therapy. Specifically, my husband. When people use alcohol to extremes, they are trying to bury something whether it was child abuse, molestation, etc. To throw away a fundamentally good, happy marriage over something that happened 15 years ago wasn’t cause for an automatic divorce. My husband gave up the booze several years ago. You can’t make good decisions when you aren’t sober. He has admitted he has a problem and made amends for harming me and our marriage.


----------



## Beach123

Has he recognized what was broken inside of him (that allowed him to betray you)?
What has he done to fix what was broken about him?


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## EleGirl

@Blondilocks 
@BeyondRepair007 
@Beach123 
@Openminded 
And anyone else who noticed this....

The user "Anna Fair" started this thread. At some point the person behind that account could no longer log in. She tried working with our head office to fix it and nothing seems to work. So, she started using the Junebug86 account.

I've been working with her to merge the two accounts into "Junebug86". Now all her posts are under the Junebug username.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

EleGirl said:


> @Blondilocks
> @BeyondRepair007
> @Beach123
> @Openminded
> And anyone else who noticed this....
> 
> The user "Anna Fair" started this thread. At some point the person behind that account could no longer log in. She tried working with our head office to fix it and nothing seems to work. So, she started using the Junebug86 account.
> 
> I've been working with her to merge the two accounts into "Junebug86". Now all her posts are under the Junebug username.


Thanks @EleGirl, I did see that and confirmed over brief PM. Appreciate you fixing things!


----------

