# So she has depression



## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Hi all, 

my partner started a sick-leave from work three and a half weeks ago after we had a good intervention-talk in our MC (= I took a stand and said that I feel at the time our relationship is not improving, and that I feel that it is because my partner is not ready to work on us, because she first needs to work on herself). This week she saw a psychiatrist who gave her a month and a half more of sick-leave and medication (Cipralex). The description on the sick-leave says "a mid-severe phase of a re-occuring depression." 

I'm relieved that she is getting help, but I guess I'm a bit in shock myself. I knew that things were not alright and that before we could work on our relationship, she needed to get her life sorted out. Eventhough I saw all the signs, I still didn't get what how severe the situation was. I feel awful for not being able to support her better and for not making a strong stand sooner. 

It feels like someone did a SixthSense-movie-esque twist on my life. The signs were there, but only now I can piece the puzzle together. It's hard to admit and face that I didn't understand what she was going through. I still think that in her case the problem is not (atleast only) physical, but more like a wound in the soul. She has been an "invisible child" when she was growing up, and it's really hard for her to make herself heard and make her needs/wants/hopes heard. 

IEventhough I think that as adults we are responsible for our own happiness and well-being, it hurts me alot to realize that I most likely have un-intentionally caused her a lot of hurt. I'm quite vocal about what I want and need, and if I want something I usually go for it. I'm also not that good at negotiating about stuff. I can see now that my lack of life-skills and communication tools and her lack of being able to set boundaries and be vocal about her needs has been a bad match. 

I'm happy that she is getting help, and I feel that by getting help she is helping me aswell to realize my failures as a partner. I'm sad but at the same time relieved and more positive about our relationship than what I was a month ago. 

With understanding what she needs now (rest, more space, a shoulder to cry and rest on), I feel like we're getting forward. And to be fair, she has her part in all this aswell. It has been really hard to try to pinpoint what is wrong with our relationship when one person can't bring herself to give any feedback or state what she wants/needs/hopes. I hope that she'll get there with the help she's now getting.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

I've been reflecting on our relationship ever since our last MC. 

At our last session I said that for me it is important to have shared sex-life as a regular of my life and that for me it's not ok to have long breaks from shared sex-life. In our relationship I am the high-drive one, and for me high drive means I would enjoy sharing sex multiple times a week. I could see myself being content with having sex twice a month if we share other kinds of intimacy regularily (=cuddling, hugging, massages etc.). 

In the end of our last session our therapist said that we live in a time where work is not as flexible as it should be and it's hard to take a break from parenting so it is understandable to have breaks from shared sex-life. After much thinking I now know that I disagree with her. I am thinking that maybe we misunderstood each other and I have to see if that is the case next week. And I am unsure what she meant with it. Was she trying to make me understand my partner? Did she speak from personal or professional experience? Whatever the case is, it is something I could not live with (having long breaks from sex-life). 

So next week I'll be laying my heart out and stating my boundaries. I will not be ok with our sex-life having longer breaks as it has had so far. My partner needs to make a choice and either choose me or choose a divorce. If she chooses me, she'll have to accept that I will have sex regularily in my life - either with her or with her and other people if she wishes to have long times with no sex in her life (for example because she wants to focus on parenting or on work). And if she chooses the second option (open relationship) we will discuss it at lenght in therapy before I'm ready to accept it. Whatever she chooses, she needs to convince me that she is with me full 100% and sure she wants this. 

She is just starting her healing process so I guess next week we'll have to discuss our time-frame. I hope the therapist can help with that. My initial suggestion will be six months. In my eyes if she can't make a choice in that time, it's hard for me to see her making it in a year either. But I try to be open for anything the therapist says and hopefully we reach an agreement that we are both content with.

As for her depression - since this is the second time she's having a depressive phase, it's more likely that there'll be a third and a fourth phase, and many more. That might not happen, but that is something I have to be prepared for. I am ok with living with someone who has a chronic illness/disability/whatever, but she if we are to be together, she needs to keep her condition under care. I will give her a chance to prove that she wants a life together and to be a family, but if she chooses a life of un-treated chaos with phases of depression, or is unable to commit to healing, then unfortunately I see no future for us.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Depression is tough and I usually tell people this: If you meet someone with depression (or a psychology major if you're still young and in college) or a therapist...RUN FOREST RUN!!!! From first hand experience I can tell you this...it's a never ending vicious cycle and you will be the scape goat for every emotional turmoil.
It will never end, MC, Therapy, exercises etc are great but it will always be "something".
It will not only test your limits but will make you questions just about everything you've ever believed in. Then, when it's all said and done one day you'll realize you've lived your entire life around another persons design. You've lived your live based on someone elses life, you've run in circles for this person and all they will see is everything that's wrong.
I'm not a negative person but lets call a spade a spade....it never ends.


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## NakashimaTaiki (May 30, 2011)

please by al means, read my posting in Recent Marriage, Depressed Wife 
in this section of the forum...you will see my story and how i overcome it...yes, she does still find flaws in me, but i just ignore that, because I know its not really her...


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the replies you both - I read that thread you suggested. 

I guess this is a moment in my life where I need to take a strong stand and to be willing to accept that by doing so our relationship might not make it. I really believed she's the one for me. I hope that we'll pull through, but at the moment I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about our future. We'll see how things go in the next MC-session next monday. I'll update this thread after that.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Today we had MC. 

We talked about how her recovery has begun and about what the plans are for the future. The therapist suggested cognitive psycho-therapy for her (alongside with the medication) and was very adamant that she should listen to the doctors and rest long enough (she is eager to get back to work and worries a lot about our finances). 

I told how I felt about all this (pretty much what I've written before) and about what my concerns are relating to our relationship. I told that I am not ok with having long periods of no shared intimacy or sex in my life, and I want to have a relationship where I too have control over when and how much of these we have. And that I need my partner to make a choice - if she wants a life with me, these will be present in my life - either between us or between me and someone else. 

We then talked briefly about opening our relationship and polyamory and decided that this is something we need to continue discussing on between the therapy sessions. My partner feels that the idea of sharing me with someone else is too hard, and I too have reservations about opening our relationship. For me to it be a possibility, she would have to want it as much as I do, and see it as bringing something positive to our lives. If it is a threat to her, or something she can't accept, then it can't work as a solution in our relationship. 

But unfortunately that narrows our options down quite a bit. Basically what she is asking is for me to have faith in her and to wait however long she needs me to wait. It might be half a year, two years, or something that never happens (=for her sexuality to waken). At the end of our session I said that I need to really think about wether I'm ready to keep on trying. 

We agreed to move to separate bedrooms when we move to our new apartment in a month. The idea is to get more distance and for both of us to get the control of our own sexuality back to us (I will have privacy as will she). During the upcoming month I need to think wether I am ready to continue working on our relationship and our intimacy, or if this new arrangement will be the first step towards emotional separation and divorce. 

At the moment I'm just really tired and ready to give up. But these are not choices one should make when tired, and I will give my thoughts time.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Last night we had a discussion about where to go from here. 

*As of now she feels that: *
- an open marriage is not an option; she feels that it would atleast destroy any desire she has to be sexual with me 
- she'd rather divorce than try open relationship
- she can't make any promises to be able to have intimacy or sex with me

I told her, that from my point of view we could have it all. We are a good team and everything else in our life works so well (expect intimacy and sex). We always wanted a life together and have dreams for that life _(a nice home, more children)_. If she is ready to give up on us, she'll be giving up on that future aswell. And how does she think this will affect our child. It will destroy a part in him _(his family)_. After divorce, he'd have two homes and would constantly miss one of us, and on the long run would be distanced from the one of us who is with him less. And with our income-levels we would never be able to offer him the things we wish if we separate. Is that a future she really wants? 

She got all emotional and ask me if I want her to kill herself. I told her that I do not want to lose her and asked that she didn't say things like that to me. I'll return to this in therapy and tell her that if she is having suicidal thoughts, I can not feel safe with her having custody of our child if we separate. She needs to get her life together first.

Then I asked her how is she working on our relationship. From my perspective it feels like she isn't, and our therapist asked her to be more open with me about what goes on in her head, so that I'd know what's going on. She was really reluctant to answer and said that maybe she isn't doing anything. I had to initiate the answer for her by telling her all the little actions I had seen her take (she has read erotic literature, masturbated, we've had sex a little more often). and I told her that I don't believe she isn't trying. Then she told me that she feels my sexuality has dominated our life together for such a long time. It's always about my needs and what I'm lacking and she doesn't know what her sexuality is at the time. It's scared and lost somewhere inside her. 

Last time in our therapy we talked about moving to separate bedrooms and about taking a break from our sexlife. We'd focus on having as much intimacy as possible, and sex can happen, but isn't the goal. I asked her if she is willing to try this and would that help her get more room for her sexuality. She agreed to try and we decided that we'll sleep in separate bedrooms until May 1st 2012. Then we'll se where we are. 

But, I told her that since at the time it seems that she sees no working solutions in the future, I'm worried that in six months she'll choose separations. And we have to be ready to face to possibility too. So, after christmas we'll have to start saving a lot more money incase we need to have the chance to separate. That'll mean cutting our expenses majorly. She wasn't happy and started crying. We'll have to talk more about this after christmas. EDIT: Today after I posted this message she told me that she does not want to divorce and we talked about sex and intimacy for a moment. She was much more calm and more open to seeing that she could meet my needs in the future. I was happy to hear that, but never the less, I want that we stick to the plan and start saving. As long as there is no action, there is nothing. 

I am really happy that she told me what's happening inside her head. I'm also seeing how the depression affects her more clearly now. She has thoughts like "I do nothing" eventhough she does alot, and suicidal thoughts. My core reaction would be to stop pressuring her, but I know that is not the right way to go. If I let her, I'm sure she'd sink into her own head totally at the time. And that'd not be cool for our relationship. I can give her time and space, but she needs to make a choice too (=she has to choose that our relationship is a top priority for her). I believe she needs pressure, but I need to work on finding the right balance. I'll continue this in therapy aswell. 

Never thought I'd go through something like this in my life. But I'm proud that I've stuck to this, and worked really hard on this. And I'm proud she's stuck with us too and is doing all she can. At the time she's acting like an idiot, but I understand that it has a lot to do with her illness. For the next six months I'll focus on my life and my child. And hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

rainbow dazed, you look as though you are similar to me.
my wife got depression and we we had small problems as every marriage does bnut most of these problems were due to HER depression?

So i was getting angry as it was mostly her fault, but you have to forget about whos fault it is and try and work on it. months ago she suggested and said i can pay for sex as she doesnt want sex anymore ( 5 times in 3 years). 

This got me so angry, but now realise she was feeling ad about not being able to provide it as she was trying to help. I havent cheated or seen someone for sex but it worries me with another year of this i will, but i wont be paying for it as i know i could pick up within a week for casual sex. im only 28.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Brendan. I'll have to re-read the posts I've made and see how they reflect the feelings I have towards my partner. I know there is anger, rage and resentment and they color how I perceive the situation. That was good advice, thank you. 

After making my last post I was planning on cooling off the relationship-discussions, but last night she initiated a discussion that turned into a spectacle. It took a twist when she told me that when I initiate sex or cuddling, I remind her of a attention-sick puppy, who'd do anything to get attention. That definately hurt and hit a sore spot, but it also opened my eyes. I've been such a fool for some time and I have not wanted to face the fact that she is not in love with me at the time. I'm sure she loves me as a friend and as a co-parent, but at the time she doesn't love me as a partner. That was a moment of clarity sorely needed. I don't know how much that has to do with her depression, and she needs to figure that out.

We'll continue as planned and move into separate bedrooms. And we'll see how things go. I returned my ring to her and told her that to me it symbols commitment to love. I'll give her some time to work things out, but at the time I need her to choose me and make a commitment. Or then choose to end this. I love her, and want to give us a chance, but not if the feeling is not mutual. Intimacy and sex aren't the things I'm lacking, they are symptoms, I get that now. What I'm lacking is feeling needed and desired. I feel neither at the time.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

We've had some epic fights since my last post, which I feel is good. I interpert it as her getting some of her energy back, since it's been a while since we fought well. This morning we congratulated each other for not having a fight last evening and for us both getting a good nights sleep.  

It is amazing how different she already is than what she was two months ago. We laugh a lot more again - even at the hard stuff like fighting. And our discussions about intimacy and sex are a bit easier, though she still sometimes goes to the "nothing I do is good enough" or "I can never be what you need" - mode (those were replies when I very calmly asked her how does she work towards healing our relationship - she never answered the question, which I'll ask again at some point). I take it she still feels a lot of pressure coming from me, so I hope I can make her feel more secure in the upcoming months. 

Today I had a small personal break through - I realized that even though I am not not going to initiate sex as I promised to her, I am going to let her know when I'm feeling sexual energy. So this morning I sms'd her: "I'm feeling full of sexual energy today have a urge to share it with another human being (=which would be you!). What should I do with this energy? " She replied that "I'm trying really hard to get there. I'll try to excite my mind during the upcoming days I have off from work." I'm not getting my hopes up, but the breakthrough is that I got a response which isn't the "stop pressuring me"-response we've been stuck to. We later talked on the phone and I told her that even though I am not going to initiate sex as I promised, I am going to let her know when I'm feeling sexual energy and the desire to share it with another human being (=her). Since she wants me to share this part of my life only with her, I want to share my emotions regarding this part of my life with her. What I'm hoping will happen is that she starts to respond to that in our communication (which I told her). Which she already did, and it felt really nice. And also, I want her to remember that eventhough she is not ready to share intimacy and sex with me at the time, it doesn't mean that it all goes away. I still have the desires and I desire to share these desires with another human being. Which is at the time her. 

I'm still pretty sure that I lack the skills to save our relationship and that we're heading for doom. But if that's where we are heading, I'll atleast spend these last six months learning as much as I possibly can. The D-day is still May 1st and I'm eagerly waiting for the day we move to our new apartment and I get my own room to sleep in (which will be in less than a month!). I'm feeling better about our situation than I've felt in a long time and however this turns out, the direction feels to be right!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rainbow,
You are approaching this situation with a good mix of compassion and courage. I am going to make a few observations that you might want to think about. First and foremost your comment about spending less was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. A long time ago I read a quote that was genius. It is oft repeated here and in a moment I will quote it for you. But before I do, I would like to point out that sex and money have some extraordinary parallels. 

When it is good, sex is 10 percent of the relationship. When it is bad, it rapidly becomes 90 percent of the relationship. 

MEM's corollary:
When plentiful, money is 10 percent of the relationship, when in short supply it quickly becomes 90 percent. 

And the reason for that is simple. Having to constantly make painful tradeoffs regarding lifestyle/spending levels, causes a lot of stress. For a LD partner, having to constrain their spending/lifestyle is every bit as stressful/irritating as being starved of sex is for a HD partner. 

Enforcing a very tight budget for a while may be the only way your W will actually understand how YOU feel when sexually starved. 

With that said, as the HD partner in a long and happy marriage I have a few questions for you:
1. Could you sit down and right out a long list of things that turn your W OFF? And also a long list of what turns her on? 
2. If not, why don't you know that stuff by now? Not slamming you, just asking. Because if you pay close attention you will know that stuff.
3. How good are you about avoiding the turn offs/and doing the turn ons?

Let me give you a personal example. During a fight - and ours last 1 to 2 days on average, my W would never have sex with me. Never. Ever. Guess what, I NEVER, EVER shy away from a fight if I think I am right "in the moment". I am never going to trade self respect for sex. That is a sure path to a broken marriage AND celibacy. 

So we fight and then when she is ready to talk we talk. If i was wrong I apologize. If she was, she apologizes. If we both were, we both do. Afterwards - within a day we have great makeup sex. If she used that approach to "avoid" sex, we would be divorced. She doesn't. We don't fight that often. But the result of this interaction is that she respects and loves me. And I sometimes tease her about her strong will and narrow comfort zone. 

I tell her that if I lacked a titanium steel spine and kevlar wrapped balls she would have ground me into dust by now. She just smiles. 

That said, these are her words not mine: "I love because, long list of reasons including, "and you put me in my place when I am being a total b!tch". 

This may seem like an unimportant distinction at a glance but to me it is "core". I do NOT hold my ground because I know I will get laid in a day or a few days. I hold my ground because I have no interest in remaining in a marriage where I am treated disrespectfully. To be fair I have no interest in remaining married to someone who would let ME treat her disrespectfully either. Which is my way of saying that it would be a giant turn off if she let me treat her badly. 

Your W wants the depression label to give her open ended diplomatic immunity. Guess what. She is better than that. If you insist that she treat you well, she will. 

With all that as background I will share my view of the HD/LD dynamic. 
1. It is my job to be an overall great partner. 
2. It is my responsibility to do hit all the basic desire triggers:
- I am a good provider
- I stay in VERY good shape (V shape) but not steroidal monkey shape
- I am fun to be with, upbeat and playful and adventurous
- I make an effort to show her a lot of non-sexual affection which she loves
- I make an effort to make sex as enjoyable as possible for her

That said, it is HER job to make sure that she makes the effort not to starve me sexually. That is HER responsibility as the LD partner and she is great about that. 

The couple times (in 20+ years) she has gone down the path of "I don't want to be bothered to have to worry about sex". I have very quickly responded with:
- I don't want you to feel pressured
- I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do
- I am not ok with being celibate - even for a little while - so lets just agree that I will discretely get my needs taken care of outside the marriage. 

I have a very simple view of this situation. I really am ok with her taking a break from sex for as long as she wants. I really am not ok with her trying to create a situation where I am involuntarily celibate. Each time that has happened, she has decided (within a day) that maintaining a sexual relationship with me is far preferable to sharing me with another woman/women. 





Rainbow_Dazed said:


> We've had some epic fights since my last post, which I feel is good. I interpert it as her getting some of her energy back, since it's been a while since we fought well. This morning we congratulated each other for not having a fight last evening and for us both getting a good nights sleep.
> 
> It is amazing how different she already is than what she was two months ago. We laugh a lot more again - even at the hard stuff like fighting. And our discussions about intimacy and sex are a bit easier, though she still sometimes goes to the "nothing I do is good enough" or "I can never be what you need" - mode (those were replies when I very calmly asked her how does she work towards healing our relationship - she never answered the question, which I'll ask again at some point). I take it she still feels a lot of pressure coming from me, so I hope I can make her feel more secure in the upcoming months.
> 
> ...


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

MEM, 

thank you for the reply and for the good advices. I have actually written the list you mentioned before, and made a new one after your post. The first one I did few years ago and not much has changed in this time with sex, but some change has happened with other areas of intimacy (cuddling, communication and such). 

I know very few things that turn her on and many, many things that turn her off. Throughout our relationship she has been the one to initiate and I don't think I would be exaggerating if I estimated that 99% of my initiations (for sex and intimacy) get rejected. There have been few special moments when things have been just right and I've been able to initiate sex between us. As for intimacy, things have gotten better. I am today able to initiate intimacy (cuddling, massages, discussions about our feelings etc.) from time to time, but I still get rejected often on this area aswell. 

Same goes for all the homework we've received from therapy. She hasn't felt comfortable doing anything other than discussing or reading (we've had homework about giving each other massages, looking at each others eyes, just giving a go at sex even when the mood isn't there and seeing what happens - and then discussing about how it felt and what emotions manifested). 

I told about your response and about my new list to my partner and we had a very informative discussion after that. She told me, that she is fairly sure she won't be able to respond to another person initiating sex. It has to be her who does the initiating. This is how it was in her last long relationship and she is at the time convinced that this is a part of who she is. She asked me if this is something I could live with. After thinking about it I told her that to me being able to initiate intimacy and sex makes me feel desired and wanted. If I can not receive fulfilment for these feelings by being able to initiate sex, then it's important for me that we think of other ways for those feelings to be met. 

Not feeling desired by her is linked to one of my bigger insecurities in our relationship, which we still need to work on in therapy. Before we met, my partner had only dated with men and when we started dating she was unsure about her sexual orientation. I still fear that I am not what she finds fulfilling as a lover. I fear that my gender is wrong and that my attributes as a lover are not what she desires in a partner. I am not an confident take-chage-dominant-alpha-person, but rather a "creative-naturally inclined to submit-sometimes insecure" type of person. I know there are areas on which I can grow and evolve, and learning to set my boundaries is definately one of those areas. But, there are limits on how much I can change. Some of these are just part of the entity that is me, and it might just turn out that we are incompatible to each other. 

In the past when we've discussed these things she has told me that she feels pressure to be in charge more than she'd feel comfortable because she knows that following is something that comes to me more naturally. I would be willing to atleast try if taking the lead is something I can learn, but giving change a chance requires commitment from us both. But I still need more information before I can understand if this is something we could work on or not. Maybe we'll discuss this in therapy after the holidays.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rainbow,
Your partner is very lucky to have found someone so patient and self aware.
The dynamic she wishes is common and also likely to produce a lot of anxiety in a partner. She basically wants an alpha sex partner who never initiates. 

BTW: my W has managed to mostly pull this off. We have this soft dynamic where she signals that I can/should initiate and then I do. It works because she never let's a week go by without giving me the green light. So this can work but only if the LD is kind and considerate and aware of their partners desires.

As a clarifier, my W will always connect with me within a day if I do initiate at my own pace. I am just loathe to impose my needs on her this way when I sense she isn't feeling much desire.

I think you should revisit the money theme. Your partner seems very emotionally attuned to her needs being met and not so worried about yours. That is neither healthy nor fair.




UOTE=Rainbow_Dazed;522943]MEM, 

thank you for the reply and for the good advices. I have actually written the list you mentioned before, and made a new one after your post. The first one I did few years ago and not much has changed in this time with sex, but some change has happened with other areas of intimacy (cuddling, communication and such). 

I know very few things that turn her on and many, many things that turn her off. Throughout our relationship she has been the one to initiate and I don't think I would be exaggerating if I estimated that 99% of my initiations (for sex and intimacy) get rejected. There have been few special moments when things have been just right and I've been able to initiate sex between us. As for intimacy, things have gotten better. I am today able to initiate intimacy (cuddling, massages, discussions about our feelings etc.) from time to time, but I still get rejected often on this area aswell. 

Same goes for all the homework we've received from therapy. She hasn't felt comfortable doing anything other than discussing or reading (we've had homework about giving each other massages, looking at each others eyes, just giving a go at sex even when the mood isn't there and seeing what happens - and then discussing about how it felt and what emotions manifested). 

I told about your response and about my new list to my partner and we had a very informative discussion after that. She told me, that she is fairly sure she won't be able to respond to another person initiating sex. It has to be her who does the initiating. This is how it was in her last long relationship and she is at the time convinced that this is a part of who she is. She asked me if this is something I could live with. After thinking about it I told her that to me being able to initiate intimacy and sex makes me feel desired and wanted. If I can not receive fulfilment for these feelings by being able to initiate sex, then it's important for me that we think of other ways for those feelings to be met. 

Not feeling desired by her is linked to one of my bigger insecurities in our relationship, which we still need to work on in therapy. Before we met, my partner had only dated with men and when we started dating she was unsure about her sexual orientation. I still fear that I am not what she finds fulfilling as a lover. I fear that my gender is wrong and that my attributes as a lover are not what she desires in a partner. I am not an confident take-chage-dominant-alpha-person, but rather a "creative-naturally inclined to submit-sometimes insecure" type of person. I know there are areas on which I can grow and evolve, and learning to set my boundaries is definately one of those areas. But, there are limits on how much I can change. Some of these are just part of the entity that is me, and it might just turn out that we are incompatible to each other. 

In the past when we've discussed these things she has told me that she feels pressure to be in charge more than she'd feel comfortable because she knows that following is something that comes to me more naturally. I would be willing to atleast try if taking the lead is something I can learn, but giving change a chance requires commitment from us both. But I still need more information before I can understand if this is something we could work on or not. Maybe we'll discuss this in therapy after the holidays. [/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thank you again for your insightful reply and encouragment, MEM. I meant to address the financial part in your earlier post but for some reason it got left out of the reply, apologizies for that. 

At the time it seems to me that due to her depression my partner is like Eeyore from Vinnie the Pooh. To me it feels that our relationship is not on a balanced and/or solid ground from which we both had the will to fight for the relationship. I don't think she has that fight in her yet. If I started bringing distance to the relationship or cutting back on things I provide, I don't think it'd motivate her to try harder. I think her reaction would be similiar to how Eeyore would react; _"Well, I knew this was coming. I didn't deserve to be happy anyway."_ 

I'm still going to start saving and cut back on our finances, but just for a different motive. I don't think cutting back will inspire her to give more effort on our relationship. Right now I believe that she just needs time. And maybe more of that than I can provide. I'm just getting so tired of feeling alone in this area of my life. Having fun moments alone is satisfying enough for a while, but when the time just keeps passing by, it starts to feel just too lonely. I have given her time until May 1st, and we'll have to see where we are at by then. I hope her healing continues and that she starts her therapy soon, but am a bit worried at the time. After returning to work, she has began to be very stressed again. If needed, I'll encourage her to see her psychiatrist again to evaluate wether she needs more sick-leave.


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## merri (Jan 3, 2012)

As a woman in a similiar situation, cuddling and affection would lead me back to sex, not demands. That makes me feel almost dirty or used. I want to have a loving relationship but when my husband demands it or says it's been too long, am I supposed to give in just to make him happy, yet in my situation, I can't get an affectionate hug. Just another perspective. Yes she may be depressed and insecure. try to give her some time to heal, it does take time. It takes two to make it work and two to make it fail. One might be stronger psychologically but if the love is still there, don't throw down ultimatums. If your partner was physically disabled would you leave her about sex. There must be more too it. Sorry just some thoughts from another angle, it sounds simliliar to my situation.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thank you for your reply, merri. I believe that you are right in that my partner needs more time. As we have agreed, we'll see where we are at in the beginning of May. But I believe she needs pressure too. I'm pretty positive that she is at the time pretty content with us having no sex. I'm positive that she would not mind having atleast a few more sexless years while she heals. I am not ok with that happening. Sex and intimacy are an important part of life for me and I want them to be present in my life. 

I can understand how what I am writing may seem like an ultimatum, but in my eyes it is not. I am merely saying that I love her and wish to share sex with her. But if she has no desire to share sex with me, then that is fine with me. In that case I will share sex and intimacy involved with sex with someone else, because celibacy is not a way of life I am comfortable with. 

I'm also very much willing to work on our relationship and am willing to bend towards her. I'd prefer to have sex with her multiple times a week, but I've told her that I can be content with having good quality sex twice a month. That a big bend from my part, but something I am doing out of my free will and by my own choice. What I'm expecting _(if she wishes me to share sex and intimacy only with her)_ is that she bends too, out of her own will and free will. If she is unable to bend and meet me somewhere in the middle, then she is unable to be in a monogamous relationship with me. 

As for the physical illness part. If she ever got physically ill or handicapped, that is what I would expect aswell. To me in sickness and in health does not mean that when one partner loses the ability to enjoy one area of life, the right thing to do is oppress the other partner to being able to enjoy that area of life aswell. To me that would be an abusive relationship, not a loving one and is not something I would be comfortable with. I expect that if one of us gets sick, we both bend. If at some point I am not able to sexually meet her wants/needs, then I hope that she finds someone to meet them. A relationship is not a prison, it is something that makes both of our lives better. If it causes too much hurt or discomfort for either one of us, then it's not worth continuing. 

A few nights ago she asked me what would I think if she needed to do something radical in order to heal and to find her sexuality again. After a bit of digging and warm encouraging I got her to say that it'd mean having sex with someone else. After sleeping over it, I told her that if at some point she feels that is what she needs to do, then that is what she needs to do. I'm positive that out of the two of us, she is the one who would not do something out of an impulse or without concidering all the possible effects it could have. If she tells me that this is important and needed, then I believe that it is. I can not promise how it will affect me, and I hope that we discuss this in therapy before anything happens. 

One of my bigger insecurities in our relationship has been, am I what she truly wants. I don't want to be something someone settles for, I guess am too egoistical/narcistic to settle for that. If she needs to find out wether I'm the one for her, then that's what I hope she will do. I'm really happy she told me what she was thinking and I hope we'll be able to continue the discussion in therapy. Ofcourse I hope that this is something she never feels a need to do, but if she does, then we need to deal with it.


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## merri (Jan 3, 2012)

Rainbow_Dazed said:


> I can understand how what I am writing may seem like an ultimatum, but in my eyes it is not. I am merely saying that I love her and wish to share sex with her. But if she has no desire to share sex with me, then that is fine with me. In that case I will share sex and intimacy involved with sex with someone else, because celibacy is not a way of life I am comfortable with.
> 
> I'm also very much willing to work on our relationship and am willing to bend towards her. I'd prefer to have sex with her multiple times a week, but I've told her that I can be content with having good quality sex twice a month. That a big bend from my part, but something I am doing out of my free will and by my own choice. What I'm expecting _(if she wishes me to share sex and intimacy only with her)_ is that she bends too, out of her own will and free will. If she is unable to bend and meet me somewhere in the middle, then she is unable to be in a monogamous relationship with me.
> 
> ...


I think of depression as an illness unless brought on by something like a death, job loss etc. But I also don't see it as a license to go off with other people. And I do not blame you for wanting to know that she really wants you. I apologize if I sounded harsh. But hearing her request and you even considering it, to me does not sound right. But at least she is talking and not sneaking. Best of luck and if I can ever be a sounding board I hope I can help.


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## GROWNMAN23 (Jan 6, 2012)

My wife suffers from Depression and it almost tore our family apart. I suggested her to see a therapist, and I offered to go to marriage counseling. That showed her that I was willing to help get past it. After some long tough sessions, and medications things have never been better.

Good luck.


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## merri (Jan 3, 2012)

I know I struggle with anxiety and depression but I go for counseling on a regular basis. I finally took meds for depression and it scares me but it helps. I read some posts to try to get a sense of what my husband thinks. He won't tell me. I have to admit, it's probably a lot of how you said it and HOW she HEARD it. I'm guilty of taking things the wrong way. It's my negative filter and counseling has helped me recognize that.
I think it's great you thought of both. I hope she hears you. Perhaps even talking to someone about how to deal with someone with depression.
Try to give her whatever positive feedback you can. I know most people love to hear something they did right.


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## GROWNMAN23 (Jan 6, 2012)

merri said:


> I know I struggle with anxiety and depression but I go for counseling on a regular basis. I finally took meds for depression and it scares me but it helps. I read some posts to try to get a sense of what my husband thinks. He won't tell me. I have to admit, it's probably a lot of how you said it and HOW she HEARD it. I'm guilty of taking things the wrong way. It's my negative filter and counseling has helped me recognize that.
> I think it's great you thought of both. I hope she hears you. Perhaps even talking to someone about how to deal with someone with depression.
> Try to give her whatever positive feedback you can. I know most people love to hear something they did right.


I admire you for taking responsibility. Most people deny that the fact that something is wrong.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

GROWNMAN23 said:


> My wife suffers from Depression and it almost tore our family apart. I suggested her to see a therapist, and I offered to go to marriage counseling. That showed her that I was willing to help get past it. After some long tough sessions, and medications things have never been better.
> 
> Good luck.


That's so cool. I'm s so happy for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

GROWNMAN23 said:


> My wife suffers from Depression and it almost tore our family apart. I suggested her to see a therapist, and I offered to go to marriage counseling. That showed her that I was willing to help get past it. After some long tough sessions, and medications things have never been better.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you for posting this, Grownman23! It's comforting to know that there are success-stories out there. 

The past two weeks have been really good. We've been getting ready for the move (we're moving this friday), and we work really well as a team. I still have to do most of the packing, and it's a blessing I have such a flexible job (this week I'm only working for one day and preparing for the move for the rest of the week). I've had to put my foot down a few times and say what needs to be priorized right now, but other than that things have gone very well. I think it's still hard for her to estimate what she is at the time capapble of and what not and she thinks she can manage more than she can.

We'll have our next therapy session in two weeks - I'll post an update after that again.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

We had our last therapy session two weeks ago, and as a short summary we agreed that she needs more time and as little pressure as possible. So we'll focus on that. After moving to a new apartment we started sleeping in separate bedrooms and it has been a blast. I enjoy the chance to be alone and if I wish, to watch tv-series in bed before going to sleep. Haven't had a chance to do that after we moved together. And I've already had a few nights when I missed sleeping besides her, so maybe I'll ask if we can sleep together on some night to come (edit: we agreed that we can have sleep-overs whenever we both want to). 

I had a personal break-through last week. We talked about relationship stuff with my best friend, and came to the conclusion that relationships can't be reasoned - they must be felt. Such a simple thought that is often heard in romantic movies and it blew my mind! It made this all even more clear to me - I want her to be with me out of her own will. I want her to want me, to desire me and spend time with me because she genuinely wants to, not because it's part of what a relationship is, or a duty. Right now she has bigger things on her plate, and she needs to deal with her illness (=depression). I'll do my best to give her time and see how things progress. As long as she continues to work on herself and keeps our relationship as a high priority, I'll wait and focus on working on myself and on spending time with the little one. And I am positive she has plenty of motivation to work on her stuff and on us. 

Sleeping alone feels great at the time, and I need to keep on exploring what all feels good to me. This is a good new start and I'm excited to see where things are heading.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Just a little update. 

It's been month and a half since we moved and sleeping in separate bedrooms has done wonders to us. I enjoy sleeping alone and having separate rooms has helped me get the distance I've needed. And she has started to miss me, which is nice. I've told her that I still need some time alone, but we can do stuff together and next weekend we're having a date night. 

My partner is returning to full-time at work next week and I'm curious to see what happens. So far it's been hard for her to manage three 6 hour days a week, so going fulltime might be too much for her. She is worried about our finances because after next week her insurace policy won't cover her shorter weeks anymore. I too worry about financial stuff, but I try to stay firm and calm and convince her that she is more important than our financial balance. And more damage would come if she returned to full time too early. If she burns herself out again, we'll be in much tighter spot than what we are in now.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

I thought I'd come back to update this thread. I personally like threads that tell the whole story and often find myself wishing for more of the story when I read other peoples posts. So here goes. 

My partner started therapy a year ago and I knew from the very start that she would need to change the course of her life in the future - and that the therapy was a stepping stone for that change. Last spring she told me that she didn't know what she wants from life but she is pretty certain that she does not love me as a partner. She asked for my permission to meet other people and to explore herself. We were able to agree about rules that we'd both commit to and agreed to open our relationship. It didn't take her long to find someone she's now building a relationship with and we're currently getting ready for ending our relationship and seeing a separation councelor. 

I'm not happy about this, but she has to choose her own way in life and on some level I'm relieved that this is coming to an end. She will not be my burden to carry much longer. That's harsh of me to say, but for the last few years she has been one. I will always be fond of her and am happy that she is the parent of my child. She's a great mother. But not the ideal partner for me. 

We've been able to mostly co-exist peacefully together during all this, but things almost escalated a month ago when she broke some of the rules we had agreed to and tried to bend the rest. She was going forward too fast and was not able to hear what I was telling her about my boundaries and emotions. I contacted a lawyer and started to prepare for immediate separation and that opened her eyes. After that we revisited the rules, agreed to a timeline (we will separate next summer) and scheduled the first session with our counselor. 

So, there's a rough year ahead, but things are moving. That's good.

EDIT: Thought I'd add that this summer I too started hangnig out with friends more and it so happened that I ended up meeting someone I concider to be a very special person. She is in a committed relationship and their relationship is open/poly-spirited. I have been getting slowly to know Her more and knowing Her makes this world a bit more brighter place to live in. I couldn't imagine having a primary relationship for years to come, so for now someone I can spend time with once or twice a month is just enough and gives joy. It's something I do my best to cherish while going through this rougher phase in my life.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Its probably for the best, you both were on two different wave lengths as far as wants/needs. I would imagine it has been hard for you both.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, CallaLily, you are most certainly right. 

I read this whole thread through last night and reading it now is facepalm-worthy. I can't believe that idiot from two years past is me. I'm ashamed how much weight I have added on her shoulders with my immature rambling about my needs and wants. I've done some things well and for those I can congratulate myself on, but there's a lot I have to apologize for aswell. 

Even though I'm currently pretty angry, carry loads of resentment for her and sadness for losing her, I do wish her to be happy and hope we both will be in a better place in the future. 

I personally know that I'm no where near of being ready for a serious relationship. I have to grow and work on myself before starting something serious again. I'm happy there'll be more room for that too in the future. And this relationship has thaught me a lot too, that I know. I'll be wiser next time!


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Well, the plot-twists continue. 

Our plans to live together until next spring went out of the window - a week ago on saturday evening she told me that she is pregnant, plans to keep the baby and wants to move in together with the father of the child.

Long story short - we are going through a messy and quick separation. I'm looking for a new apartment (checking one out tonight and one tomorrow) and we are trying to settle on custody arrangements but do not see eye to eye. Our good co-existence and communication has been severely damaged and at the moment I just need to get out of this situation and I do not want to see her any more than necessary. Nor meet her new partner. Or her baby. I'm sure I'll hear about them from our child, but that's already more than enough punches I am willing to take at the time. 

So, she had an accidental pregnancy, chose to keep the baby and in doing so ****ed things up for us pretty massively. I'm going to survive through this, I know that. I'm going to make sure the little one survives as well. 

But the fallout she caused with her bomb will effect things for a long time. And right now I'm not ready to even imagine that there'll be a day when I wish to see her face again. Or say nice things to her. That day might come, but I'm not seeing it yet.


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## marshmallow (Oct 15, 2013)

Aww, Rainbow. Keep that level head of yours, and keep your chin up. Do the best you can, I have high hopes you will find a great happiness!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rainbow_Dazed;
You did good. Love is a powerful drug. Your partner was rather selfish from the get go. 



]I thought I'd come back to update this thread. I personally like threads that tell the whole story and often find myself wishing for more of the story when I read other peoples posts. So here goes. 

My partner started therapy a year ago and I knew from the very start that she would need to change the course of her life in the future - and that the therapy was a stepping stone for that change. Last spring she told me that she didn't know what she wants from life but she is pretty certain that she does not love me as a partner. She asked for my permission to meet other people and to explore herself. We were able to agree about rules that we'd both commit to and agreed to open our relationship. It didn't take her long to find someone she's now building a relationship with and we're currently getting ready for ending our relationship and seeing a separation councelor. 

I'm not happy about this, but she has to choose her own way in life and on some level I'm relieved that this is coming to an end. She will not be my burden to carry much longer. That's harsh of me to say, but for the last few years she has been one. I will always be fond of her and am happy that she is the parent of my child. She's a great mother. But not the ideal partner for me. 

We've been able to mostly co-exist peacefully together during all this, but things almost escalated a month ago when she broke some of the rules we had agreed to and tried to bend the rest. She was going forward too fast and was not able to hear what I was telling her about my boundaries and emotions. I contacted a lawyer and started to prepare for immediate separation and that opened her eyes. After that we revisited the rules, agreed to a timeline (we will separate next summer) and scheduled the first session with our counselor. 

So, there's a rough year ahead, but things are moving. That's good.

EDIT: Thought I'd add that this summer I too started hangnig out with friends more and it so happened that I ended up meeting someone I concider to be a very special person. She is in a committed relationship and their relationship is open/poly-spirited. I have been getting slowly to know Her more and knowing Her makes this world a bit more brighter place to live in. I couldn't imagine having a primary relationship for years to come, so for now someone I can spend time with once or twice a month is just enough and gives joy. It's something I do my best to cherish while going through this rougher phase in my life.[/QUOTE]


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Thank you Marshmallow (love the username!) and MEM11363! 

Things have taken amazing turns this week - I found a beautiful and affordable new home and I get to move into it in two weeks. On top of that I've received an overwhelming amount of support from my friends and family. I can't believe I'm getting my own home and my own life so soon. Took a ton of weight off my shoulders! 

I'm sure there'll be lots of rough patches up ahead aswell, but for now I'll just enjoy this little moment in the sun!


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

I think this might be my last post in this thread. I'll start a new thread in the "Life after the divorce" - section for my next post and link this thread to that. 

So. All the formalities have been taken care of. I have my new apartment and as I wrote earlier it's a dream come true. One of the happy things to come out of this all. We have made and signed papers about custody and childsupport and in the future our little one officially resides at my home and my ex pays support as much as she can. Which will drastically diminish next summer when her new baby is born. The little one sees my ex on two weeknights and every other weekend. Rest of the time he lives with me. Finances have been separated as have been our material possessions. So this is it. The start of a new time in my life. 

The last six months have been a hectic turmoil during which I've mostly just reacted to things that happen. And now with everything being said and done, I feel pretty badly wounded and hurt. It's going to take some time to get back on my feet. At the time I sleep with meds and I guess I'll keep doing so for as long as is neeed. Until the anxiety eases. On the bad days I work on just breathing my way through the day and when it's really bad I call a friend or a familymember or see someone irl. Or spoil myself with a cup of good coffee or something. 

I went on a rebound date. It wasn't a planned thing, but an opportunity presented itself and I took it. The guy was scary and irritating and I annoyed him to the extent that he wanted to slap me (his words). We ended up talking for five hours and decided to never see again. It was a very welcome experience and made me realize that a) I'm nowhere near ready to date anyone, but b) yes, some day I will be ready to date again and when I'm ready, I might date someone who's totally different than my ex. And that thought felt so comforting. But as for now, I'm nowhere near ready to date again. So no more dating for now. But some day I will be, I know it!


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