# Don't know what to make of this..



## bigdogs

My wife had an emotional affair with a friend. I found out from his wife over 6 months ago. Things were really rough in the beginning but things seem to be back on track now. On Easter Sunday we were sitting on the couch with her father watching opening night baseball and the door bell rings. I answer it and in walks the other man. He started making small talk and petting our dogs. The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months. I didn't say a word to him. I think that I was in shock. I just stared straight ahead at the tv. He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.

We went to bed and I told her I was concerned about what his motives were for coming over. She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. She said why did you even let him in the door. I said I didn't invite him in I just answered the door and he walked in.

I don't know why he came over. What did he want? Is he crazy? Who does that?


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## Thound

bigdogs said:


> My wife had an emotional affair with a friend. I found out from his wife over 6 months ago. Things were really rough in the beginning but things seem to be back on track now. On Easter Sunday we were sitting on the couch with her father watching opening night baseball and the door bell rings. I answer it and in walks the other man. He started making small talk and petting our dogs. The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months. I didn't say a word to him. I think that I was in shock. I just stared straight ahead at the tv. He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.
> 
> We went to bed and I told her I was concerned about what his motives were for coming over. She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. She said why did you even let him in the door. I said I didn't invite him in I just answered the door and he walked in.
> 
> I don't know why he came over. What did he want? Is he crazy? Who does that?


You should have stomped a mud hole in his azz!


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## Plan 9 from OS

What kind of guy is he? He physically bigger than you? Is the the dominant one among your group of friends? He could be one of those loons who thinks he can "mark his territory". But I must ask - are you SURE that your wife did not sleep with this guy? EA's are typically a result of distance. If the guy is local and this went on for 6 months...

Alternatively, the guy feels like crap and is hoping that the whole thing could be rug swept and everything goes back to the way it was. Still, kind of ****ish for him to say "so that's how it's going to be"... 

Bottom line is the guy appears to have a low level of emotional intelligence.

Frankly, why didn't you stop him in his tracks? Shock I get, but why allow him to stay inside your house for 5 - 10 minutes (or longer)?


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## PhillyGuy13

And you let him into your f--king house because...?

You didn't punch him in the goddamn kisser because...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigdogs

It went on very briefly like less than two weeks over six months ago. I think his wife found out before it could go any further. I found out a little over six months ago. He is not bigger than I am. I am a 6th degree blackbelt. I don't know why I didn't say anything. I don't know if I didn't want to react in front of FIL or what. My wife says she has had no contact with him. Why would anyone go to the house of the OM and act like nothing was up, nothing had changed. He was not really a friend of mine. He and his wife were close to my wife.

I am now afraid to leave my wife alone. I am leaving for a trip next weekend and all I can think about is what if he comes over again. What if he was just not expecting me to be there.


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## PhillyGuy13

Well it was Easter Sunday, if something was going on with your wife he sure as heck would have been forewarned NOT to come over, so I think you are OK.

I too would be leery about being out of town at this juncture. Do you have access to her cell phone statements, the phone itself, her iCloud account, if applicable?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on

Bigdogs

I have to agree with the wife here, why did you let him in? I understand you were answering the door, but you should have stopped him from making egress. Personally I would have been more then happy to step in front of him and block his path from my home. Are you still friends with him and why? His comments have him appearing as he is very comfortable with you and your wife. That should have been noticeable tension that he feel uncomfortable in your home. Perhaps he is testing the waters to revive the old affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigdogs

I think if he were to try again there would be a different result. I was never friends with him. He on occasion would join us to watch MMA. He was friends with my wife.

My wife does not have an icloud account. She said she has blocked him from all our devices and social media.

His statements are what really has me confused. He acted as though he had seen my dogs recently. To say : I was just in the neighborhood and thought I would drop in and say hi. Hadn't been by in a while. The whole thing is just making me rethink everything that I thought I knew. Has she been in contact with him. Is she hiding things from me?


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## Dyokemm

I also cannot understand your passivity in this situation.

As far as what in the h*ll was he thinking, it could very well be an attempt by him to force your WW to pick him.

The A may have gone completely underground, and he has been pushing your WW to leave, but she is stalling or refusing.

So POS takes steps to force her hand by blowing up your M.

Some of the comments you said he made would fit this explanation too....saying it had been weeks since he was over, when you think it has been months.....saying 'its like that then' when your WW says you two are going to bed.

Combine that with the 'sick' look on your WW's face and I think you have cause to be concerned here.

As the WS in an ongoing R attempt, I would think she should have been more proactive about defending her BH and M....SHE should have told him to get the h*ll out.

Instead she just gets up and leaves the room with a look of horror on her face.

I know if I were in your shoes OP, my alarm bells would be ringing.


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## DoneWithHurting

Bigdogs - you have a message.
A senior from the Dojo calls.


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## DoneWithHurting

bigdogs said:


> he was friends with my wife.
> 
> Has she been in contact with him. Is she hiding things from me?


imho - yes.


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## GusPolinski

bigdogs said:


> My wife had an emotional affair with a friend. I found out from his wife over 6 months ago. Things were really rough in the beginning but things seem to be back on track now. On Easter Sunday we were sitting on the couch with her father watching opening night baseball and the door bell rings. I answer it and in walks the other man. He started making small talk and petting our dogs. The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months. I didn't say a word to him. I think that I was in shock. I just stared straight ahead at the tv. He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.
> 
> We went to bed and I told her I was concerned about what his motives were for coming over. She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. *She said why did you even let him in the door.* I said I didn't invite him in I just answered the door and he walked in.
> 
> I don't know why he came over. What did he want? Is he crazy? Who does that?


That's a damn good question, and here's an even better one...

Why didn't you beat the sh*t out of him?


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## Graywolf2

Don’t be too hard on yourself. I’ve been there. Something happens that’s totally unexpected and unbelievable. If everyone is acting friendly you just go with the flow. It’s kind of like an angry mob. If everyone is angry you get angry too. If everyone is acting civil you do too. 



bigdogs said:


> I am now afraid to leave my wife alone. I am leaving for a trip next weekend and all I can think about is what if he comes over again. What if he was just not expecting me to be there.


You 100% need to tell the other man’s wife what happened so that there will be another set of eyes on him. Some may disagree but I would also tell her that you will be gone for a week. 

Since your FIL was a witness I was also tell him about your concerns. I would ask your wife if she’s sure it wasn’t physical. She won’t confess anything but it will make her uncomfortable and reiterate that you can’t trust her.


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## PhillyGuy13

Was there any contact the next day? 

"What the heck were you thinking coming over last night?"

You've verified the answer one way or the other?

What exactly happened six months ago? Sexting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dadof2

bigdogs said:


> My wife had an emotional affair with a friend. I found out from his wife over 6 months ago. Things were really rough in the beginning but things seem to be back on track now. On Easter Sunday we were sitting on the couch with her father watching opening night baseball and the door bell rings. I answer it and in walks the other man. He started making small talk and petting our dogs. The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months. I didn't say a word to him. I think that I was in shock. I just stared straight ahead at the tv. He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.
> 
> We went to bed and I told her I was concerned about what his motives were for coming over. She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. She said why did you even let him in the door. I said I didn't invite him in I just answered the door and he walked in.
> 
> I don't know why he came over. What did he want? Is he crazy? Who does that?


This has to be a troll right??

Who would let the OM just walk in and play with the dogs and hang out on the couch? I wish my wife's POSOM would show up at my door one day!


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## bigdogs

I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and waited until he left to go in. I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face. She called it. She said nothing would happen.


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## DoneWithHurting

You cannot lay a hand on him or anyone for that matter. Being a trained Martial Artist puts you in a very tight spot. You are trained to kill, not fight.

Put your emotional and mental training to good use. Use your meditation to stay calm and use your training to take appropriate action and hold all accountable for their behaviors.


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## GusPolinski

bigdogs said:


> I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and waited until he left to go in. I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face. She called it. She said nothing would happen.


That's only because _*YOU did nothing.*_


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## PhillyGuy13

bigdogs said:


> I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and waited until he left to go in. I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face. She called it. She said nothing would happen.


Almost sounds like a dig to me "nothing will happen. You won't do anything about it"

How is the rest of your relationship? I'm now getting a vibe that she is more control of what is happening than I originally thought.


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## Noble1

bigdogs said:


> I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and waited until he left to go in. I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face. * She called it. She said nothing would happen*.




Like it was mentioned, it seems like your wife was almost putting you down.

Now we don't know the "context" or tone of the 'bolded' part, but it does seem like the OM is stepping up to take back some territory.

Hope it works out for you.

Good luck.


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## PhillyGuy13

bigdogs said:


> My wife does not have an icloud account.* She said she has blocked him from all our devices and social media. *


I say I'm the King of England but just because I say something doesn't mean it's true.

Have you verified he is blocked? What investigative research have you done, to date?


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## bigdogs

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Was there any contact the next day?
> 
> "What the heck were you thinking coming over last night?"
> 
> You've verified the answer one way or the other?
> 
> What exactly happened six months ago? Sexting?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The other man and his wife had split up and he was living in his own apartment. Things were really rough between my wife and I for the last year and a half financially because of my businesses. She wanted me to shut down one of them and I wouldn't so she was going to leave me. They started talking to each other about our respective marriages and started talking about maybe marrying the wrong people. There was never anything sexual in the text messages that his wife gave me copies of..

There was no contact the next day.


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## Lostinthought61

you should have called the police on trespassing charges...and perhaps tell him face to face that you intend too next time...anyway to cancel your trip?


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## bigdogs

I don't believe that my wife has had any contact with him. We only have one home computer. I have her facebook password and she does not lock her cell phone. She is trying to be as open as she can be with me.

When this first came to light his wife kept very close tabs on her husband and had all of his emails and text messages that he had sent to everyone including my wife. 

I don't think she meant anything bad by saying that she thought nothing would happen. She knows that I am a quiet and reserved person and would not do anything against my beliefs.

If he attempts to visit my home again I will make sure he does not make it through the door. Will not catch me off guard twice. 

I think that he may have ulterior motives in that rumor is him and his wife are not working very well and he may be trying to tank our marriage also.


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## Graywolf2

The conditions were a perfect storm and had a high chance of being physical if the OMW didn’t catch it. 

The OM wanted something because his actions were desperate. I don’t think that most people (men especially) would go that far to rekindle a platonic relationship. He either got some or thought he was about to. IMO that’s why it was worth it to the OM to make a fool of himself. He wants to get some or get some more.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

This guy was talking/texting with your wife for 6 months. She was freinds with him and his wife. I find it hard to believe that the topic of you being a 6th degree black belt never once came up.

And there's no way an average Joe it going to go knocking on the door of the woman that he was having a 6 month long EA(and he knows that her husband know about it) if he knows said husband is a 6th degree black belt.

So, you're telling us that when you opened the door, you never once thought about sweeping his legs out from under him so he's on the floor, pinning him down and having your wife call the police...

Something doesn't jive here. Either you've left out some very big and improtant details, or...


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## bigdogs

Graywolf2 said:


> The conditions were a perfect storm and had a high chance of being physical if the OMW didn’t catch it.
> 
> The OM wanted something because his actions were desperate. I don’t think that most people (men especially) would go that far to rekindle a platonic relationship. He either got some or thought he was about to. IMO that’s why it was worth it to the OM to make a fool of himself. He wants to get some or get some more.


She admits that it was moving in that direction. She has been open about everything as far as I can tell. She answers my questions without hesitation.

I was thinking that because his marriage is not working he is trying to throw a wrench in mine. Having someone who you thought was out of your life walk into your home put us both on edge. I can't cancel my trip but her girlfriends are going to come stay at the house with her while I am gone.


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## bigdogs

MarriedGuy221 said:


> The picture you paint doesn't add up and if something was going on, I doubt you would know... just ask half the folks on TAM. You SHOULD be suspicious IMHO and you don't appear to be. It is justified to be based on this guys actions alone...


I am not suspicious of my wife right now. I have seen and been the beneficiary of the work she has put in the last six months. Do I completely trust NO! I do not. Don't know if I ever will but she is doing all the right things. My concern is him. You would have to be a little unstable to walk up to the door of someones house and ring the doorbell. 

I spent the last hour going though all the cell phone bills for the last two months and I don't see any numbers that I don't recognize. The only text on there I see are to her girlfriends, dad, and her niece and myself.


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## Yeswecan

bigdogs said:


> I don't believe that my wife has had any contact with him. We only have one home computer. I have her facebook password and she does not lock her cell phone. She is trying to be as open as she can be with me. *If true, a good thing. *
> 
> When this first came to light his wife kept very close tabs on her husband and had all of his emails and text messages that he had sent to everyone including my wife.
> 
> I don't think she meant anything bad by saying that she thought nothing would happen. She knows that I am a quiet and reserved person and would not do anything against my beliefs. *My belief is you need to start protecting your interests. That is your W. The OM should have been shown the door. He walked all over you and crapped on your marriage in your own home.*
> 
> If he attempts to visit my home again I will make sure he does not make it through the door. Will not catch me off guard twice.
> 
> I think that he may have ulterior motives in that rumor is him and his wife are not working very well and he may be trying to tank our marriage also. *I don't think. I know there is ulterior motive. You missed a golden opportunity to put your beliefs aside and kicked some major a$$.*


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## bigdogs

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This guy was talking/texting with your wife for 6 months. She was freinds with him and his wife. I find it hard to believe that the topic of you being a 6th degree black belt never once came up.
> 
> And there's no way an average Joe it going to go knocking on the door of the woman that he was having a 6 month long EA(and he knows that her husband know about it) if he knows said husband is a 6th degree black belt.
> 
> So, you're telling us that when you opened the door, you never once thought about sweeping his legs out from under him so he's on the floor, pinning him down and having your wife call the police...
> 
> Something doesn't jive here. Either you've left out some very big and improtant details, or...


The EA was not 6 months long. I found out 6 months ago. The texting went on for about 10 days. His wife was suspicious because he had moved out of the house and was being distant. She ordered copies of all of his text messages going back and determined that he had been trying to have or had affairs with a few of her friends. She contacted all of those friends as well as their SO's and gave them all the information that she had. That is how I found out. 

I can tell you that I thought about doing a lot of things when I realized it was him at the door. My body would just not respond. *He knows that I am a blackbelt. This is my concern. He would have to be unstable or an idiot. * My FIL thinks that maybe he was over to try and make amends. I don't know. I just don't want him to bother us again. If he attempts contact in anyway we will put a restraining order on him. I just worry about him doing it while I am away.


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## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> The other man and his wife had split up and he was living in his own apartment. Things were really rough between my wife and I for the last year and a half financially because of my businesses. She wanted me to shut down one of them and I wouldn't so she was going to leave me. They started talking to each other about our respective marriages and started talking about maybe marrying the wrong people. There was never anything sexual in the text messages that his wife gave me copies of..
> 
> There was no contact the next day.



Just because there was nothing overtly sexual in texts doesn't mean a thing. It is one piece of the puzzle. 

One thing you can pay attention to were the words out of his mouth. He said right in front of you that he hadn't seen your dogs in a few weeks, yet you say its been 6 months. Most people in his position wouldn't feel like they could just pop in unannounced on Easter Sunday for no reason. And your wife looked ill because she knows he may reveal something more.

This whole drama isn't over.


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## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> The EA was not 6 months long. I found out 6 months ago. The texting went on for about 10 days. His wife was suspicious because he had moved out of the house and was being distant. She ordered copies of all of his text messages going back and determined that he had been trying to have or had affairs with a few of her friends. She contacted all of those friends as well as their SO's and gave them all the information that she had. That is how I found out.
> 
> I can tell you that I thought about doing a lot of things when I realized it was him at the door. My body would just not respond. *He knows that I am a blackbelt. This is my concern. He would have to be unstable or an idiot. * My FIL thinks that maybe he was over to try and make amends. I don't know. I just don't want him to bother us again. If he attempts contact in anyway we will put a restraining order on him. I just worry about him doing it while I am away.


You can't get copies of peoples actual text messages without a court order. She may have a record of the numbers he texted but the content, no.


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## kenmoore14217

Damage is done! He came to your home unannounced, entered when uninvited and basically laid his scent down for YOUR wife! You can talk all you want about the could-a, would-a, should-a but he beat you to it. Now you have a problem bigger than before.


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## Tobyboy

Why don't you go to his house and confront him? Better yet confront him somewhere neutral, get his side of things. 

How did you confront your W? Did she deny anything at first? Did she lie when confronted?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobyboy

Oh.....if he's got the balls to go to your house when your home, then he been there when your not!!! And recently!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> You can't get copies of peoples actual text messages without a court order. She may have a record of the numbers he texted but the content, no.


She had a supeona and the phone was registered to her. She also had spyware loaded on his phone.


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## Tobyboy

Does your fil live with you or was he just visiting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brandy905

bigdogs said:


> He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.


This actually happened and you did NOTHING??? How long was he there? Very honestly if I was in your wife's position, I would loose respect for you, because you should have done something, anything!!! Set boundaries, command respect don't be a doormat!


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## bigdogs

Tobyboy said:


> Does your fil live with you or was he just visiting?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My FIL doesn't not have cable tv and comes over to watch hockey and baseball with my wife. They are very close. It was opening day at Wrigley Field and they are fans.


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## bigdogs

Brandy905 said:


> This actually happened and you did NOTHING??? How long was he there? Very honestly if I was in your wife's position, I would loose respect for you, because you should have done something, anything!!! Set boundaries, command respect don't be a doormat!


This actually happened. He was there for about 10-12 minutes. I froze. I missed my chance to let him have it. My gut tells me he was there to stir up trouble. I just don't know why someone would risk bodily harm to do it.


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## BobSimmons

bigdogs said:


> I don't believe that my wife has had any contact with him. We only have one home computer. I have her facebook password and she does not lock her cell phone. She is trying to be as open as she can be with me.
> 
> When this first came to light his wife kept very close tabs on her husband and had all of his emails and text messages that he had sent to everyone including my wife.
> 
> I don't think she meant anything bad by saying that she thought nothing would happen. She knows that I am a quiet and reserved person and would not do anything against my beliefs.
> 
> If he attempts to visit my home again I will make sure he does not make it through the door. Will not catch me off guard twice.
> 
> I think that he may have ulterior motives in that rumor is him and his wife are not working very well and he may be trying to tank our marriage also.


Why...not...

Go to his place.

And tell him, you're not friends, and never to come to your house again. 

That makes it crystal clear to everybody.

It's really very simple.

And as a black belt you should not be scared he'll try anything.

Really very simple.


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## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> This actually happened. He was there for about 10-12 minutes. I froze. I missed my chance to let him have it. My gut tells me he was there to stir up trouble. I just don't know why someone would risk bodily harm to do it.


Maybe he saw you hiding in your car in the parking lot of the big box store and knew you were afraid to confront him.


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## jb02157

I don't think you ought to have let him in. You should have told him that's quite inappropriate for him to be at your house and if he doesn't leave you'll call the cops. 

You might think about a restrianing order.


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## Tobyboy

kristin2349 said:


> Maybe he saw you hiding in your car in the parking lot of the big box store and knew you were afraid to confront him.


.......or big dog wife told him that!


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## Graywolf2

bigdogs said:


> You would have to be a little unstable to walk up to the door of someones house and ring the doorbell.


:iagree:

This guy has convinced himself that your wife wants him. The idea is so attractive that he’s having difficulty letting go of it. I’m not trying to be an alarmist but I can see this guy forcing himself on your wife if he gets her alone. In his mind he knows they are meant for each other.


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## Yeswecan

Graywolf2 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> *This guy has convinced himself that your wife wants him.* The idea is so attractive that he’s having difficulty letting go of it. I’m not trying to be an alarmist but I can see this guy forcing himself on your wife if he gets her alone. In his mind he knows they are meant for each other.


:iagree:


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## Colonel Angus

Delusional people like this scoundrel, believe that by acting as though nothing has happened, it will somehow become a reality.

As far as your controlled behavior, you are to be commended sir and not criticized. There are times and places for giving a scoundrel a good thrashing, and that was not one of them. But you should seriously consider inviting him to a desolate place where you can properly introduce his rear end to your boot.







If I overstayed my welcome, just tap me on the head


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## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> Maybe he saw you hiding in your car in the parking lot of the big box store and knew you were afraid to confront him.


I don't see how avoiding public conflict is hiding. But he may have seen me in my work truck.


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## kristin2349

Sure avoiding public conflict is probably a good idea. But you have not done anything to be ashamed of, so it sounds like it is time to put this guy on notice. 

Your post says you don't know what to make of this. The guy put the moves on your wife and she didn't shut it down. Then he shows up at your home on a holiday uninvited. He should be the one fearing a confrontation.


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## ThePheonix

bigdogs said:


> I don't think she meant anything bad by saying that she thought nothing would happen.


You don't understand womanese my man. She meant your a passive paper tiger that strikes no fear. Its not much of a stretch to believe he heard about you avoiding him at the lumber store and wanted to show how much he could push the envelope. Agreed you cannot just punch the guy out at you front door, but you could have told him to get lost. 
Your only redemption is, without fanfare or announcement to your old lady, go the mans house and in front of his old lady, tell him, in a nice way, it would be best if he stayed away. Tell your wife after the fact. 
I don't like confrontation either but this guy made you look like no trespassing is nothing more than a suggestion.


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## bigdogs

ThePheonix said:


> You don't understand womanese my man. She meant your a passive paper tiger that strikes no fear. Its not much of a stretch to believe he heard about you avoiding him at the lumber store and wanted to show how much he could push the envelope. Agreed you cannot just punch the guy out at you front door, but you could have told him to get lost.
> Your only redemption is, without fanfare or announcement to your old lady, go the mans house and in front of his old lady, tell him, in a nice way, it would be best if he stayed away. Tell your wife after the fact.
> I don't like confrontation either but this guy made you look like no trespassing is nothing more than a suggestion.


I think that I will just let this one go. If he attempts to contact my wife or I in any capacity again I will take care of it. To be completely relaxed and enjoying yourself and have someone just stomp on that is unsettling. My wife asked me if I smelled booze on his breath because she couldn't even imagine him being so stupid and reckless. I was getting over a head cold so I told her I couldn't smell anything.


----------



## workindad

bigdogs said:


> I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and waited until he left to go in. I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face. She called it. She said nothing would happen.


She has a low opinion of you and a lack of respect.

I doubt he was lying when he said it had been a few weeks since he saw your dogs.


----------



## G.J.

The dogs reaction worries me

The phone numbers of her girl friends, are you sure they are all the correct ones as its a normal ploy for women to use another womens name to hide their affair partner

Also invest in a couple of small VARs and put them in the house when you are away next weekend just to make sure, as for the small outlay it could save you a lifetime of heartache as he may have got wind your away


----------



## bigdogs

At this point I believe my wife. In two months there has been 40 phone calls from her cell. All to numbers I know. Only 195 texts again all to numbers I know. She has been remorseful and working hard.


----------



## jsmart

ThePheonix said:


> Y*ou don't understand womanese my man. * She meant your a passive paper tiger that strikes no fear. *Its not much of a stretch to believe he heard about you avoiding him at the lumber store and wanted to show how much he could push the envelope.* Agreed you cannot just punch the guy out at you front door, but you could have told him to get lost.
> Your only redemption is, without fanfare or announcement to your old lady, go the mans house and in front of his old lady, tell him, in a nice way, it would be best if he stayed away. Tell your wife after the fact.
> I don't like confrontation either but this guy made you look like no trespassing is nothing more than a suggestion.


The man that is the boldest and most manly (alpha) gets the girl. I bet his wife found it very exciting and tingly that he boldly came over like that. OP has a big problem and doesn't even know it, which why he's on a forum with strangers talking about this. 

OP needs to confront this guy at his home. He came to his house and threw the gauntlet down to claim his wife's body. 

Don't fool yourself. This is some serious **** that just happened.


----------



## Thor

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> And there's no way an average Joe it going to go knocking on the door of the woman that he was having a 6 month long EA(and he knows that her husband know about it) if he knows said husband is a 6th degree black belt.


My son's Tai Kwondo instructor is a 5th or 6th Dan (black belt). The guy is about 50 yrs old, and a nerdy engineer. The one guy higher than him in this state is about 60 yrs old, and walks with a limp due to some old injury.

I wouldn't f with either one of them! The last thing I'd do is provoke them by walking into their home if he knew I'd had an EA with their wife.


----------



## Thor

ThePheonix said:


> Agreed you cannot just punch the guy out at you front door, but you could have told him to get lost.


Sure you can, as soon as he attempts entry. You can't beat a guy for standing on your doorstep and ringing the bell, but as soon as he attempts to gain entry inside it is game on.

Even a 1st year martial arts student knows how to apply maximum pain with simple holds. No need to break his nose or knock him down.


----------



## workindad

Thor said:


> Sure you can, as soon as he attempts entry. You can't beat a guy for standing on your doorstep and ringing the bell, but as soon as he attempts to gain entry inside it is game on.
> 
> Even a 1st year martial arts student knows how to apply maximum pain with simple holds. No need to break his nose or knock him down.


:iagree::iagree:

At the very least you can also tell him to take a flying f-ing leap and to never come back. Then slam the door.

I hope you at least called his wife to let her know he was back.


----------



## Me Vietare

I believe you acted wisely by exercising restraint. Had you assaulted him without him first becoming physical with you, you likely would be taken into custody, face huge financial consequences for a legal defense and even if not found criminally liable, would be subject to civil action. 

I think you showed strength albeit perhaps due to confusion. You do need to provide for your wife's well being whilst you are away, however. If not a restraining order, at least file a report with the local cops and ask for increased patrols.


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> I think that I will just let this one go. If he attempts to contact my wife or I in any capacity again I will take care of it. To be completely relaxed and enjoying yourself and have someone just stomp on that is unsettling. My wife asked me if I smelled booze on his breath because she couldn't even imagine him being so stupid and reckless.


 It was only "stupid and reckless" if you had called him out on it. Since you did not, he fully accomplished what he was trying to do. He acted like an Alpha as he walked pasted you into your home, pet your dog as if he owned the place, made you look Beta as he proposed helping your wife fold the laundry as if you had no say in the matter, and let your wife know that he was ready and willing to resume the affair. The other man placed the ball in your wife's court again, with you not being considered a factor that he respected. When your wife took action by standing up and saying that you were both going to go to bed, his comment "oh so that is how this is going to be" and "see you around", was a show of direct disregard for you and your marriage. 

It is not too late to fix it. Call him up and tell him that for the sake of your wife, you did not confront him when her father was there. Tell him that next time he will not be so lucky if he contacts your wife ever again. If he asks what you will do about it, tell him that you are not going to telegraphs in advance your actions, and that he will just have to be surprised.


----------



## bigdogs

It upsets me that I let my wife make him leave. She is upset that he tainted our reconciliation. I need to be hyper aware agsin


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## ThePheonix

bigdogs said:


> I think that I will just let this one go. If he attempts to contact my wife or I in any capacity again I will take care of it.


Let it go at your own peril. I'm a 1st degree black belt ( Tai Kwondo) and former golden gloves boxer so I know the tendency and training to avoid trouble unless overtly attacked. This douche bag was there to make a point. Again, the timing of you avoiding him at the lumber yard and him showing up at your house, strutting like a banty rooster, is uncanny. Plus it obviously bothers you or you wouldn't be posting. At a minimum, you need to tell his wife along with a message for him not to come back. Hopefully he'll confront you where you can clarify your position. Hell dawg, I almost wish I had the opportunity.


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## DoneWithHurting

I would bust her butt for allowing this scumbag into your life. She needs to be held accountable so she never ever considers it again.

Consequences Dog. Regain the upper hand all around. 
Your rank is worthless. Read "The Art Of War" and "The Book Of Five Rings".

Take action. Doing nothing is doing nothing, and nothing will get done except your wife taking action when your not around.


----------



## alte Dame

His behavior indicates that he was marking territory, in my opinion. He was passive-aggressively confronting you and making it clear to your wife that he's not staying in the background. He purposely commented about seeing the dogs just a few weeks ago in order to let you know that you don't know everything & to let her know that he's not staying underground with the whole thing. 

Either the two of them are secretly still in touch or he has delusions/desires re her (that she is aware of and not telling you about) that she doesn't welcome.

No matter what, I don't think you are getting the whole story from her. I would VAR her for a while.

It's always possible that the man is unhinged, as several have suggested, in which case a VAR might help there as well. If it comes up clean, you can be more confident that it's just strange behavior on his part.


----------



## carmen ohio

bigdogs said:


> It upsets me that I let my wife make him leave. She is upset that he tainted our reconciliation. I need to be hyper aware agsin


bigdogs,

It's good that you're beginning to understand how badly you screwed up. You totally wimped out. As a result, it's not just your reconciliation that has been tainted but, in all likelihood, your wife's respect for you.

Black belt or no black belt, you're masculinity ranking has fallen through the floor. You need to fix this but, obviously, in a way that doesn't result in your going to jail.

Good luck.


----------



## soccermom2three

Did you call his wife and tell him what happened on Easter Sunday?


----------



## Sports Fan

Some people just bring upon their own misery. Personally if my wifes former affair partner walked up to my front door he would of needed an ambulance to escort him off the property. 

Forget about him making it through the front door.


----------



## italianjob

I would try to dig deeper if I were you...
His behavior and his words to the dogs suggest that he wanted to make the point that he's been in your house recently (or way more recently than six months ago).
My reading is that he wanted to show your wife he could rub your nose in it without you being any wiser about it.
Your wife's embarassed silence may also be a sign that there was much more than sexting to this story, and that she was afraid that it might come out.
I think that the EA was a PA and went on much longer after you discovered it; maybe she cut it expressing fear about a possible violent reaction from you, and the episode was the OM way to show your wife he had no fear.

Don't let this go, look into it...


----------



## synthetic

> My wife says she has had no contact with him.


Your wife is lying to you.


----------



## jsmart

carmen ohio said:


> bigdogs,
> 
> It's good that you're beginning to understand how badly you screwed up. *You totally wimped out. As a result, it's not just your reconciliation that has been tainted but, in all likelihood, your wife's respect for you.*
> 
> *Black belt or no black belt, you're masculinity ranking has fallen through the floor. *You need to fix this but, obviously, in a way that doesn't result in your going to jail.
> 
> Good luck.


OP as a woman, Carmen just gave you a glimpse of what your wife was thinking of you. Woman are repulsed by male weakness. They respond to confidence, boldness, displays of strength, and perceived status. As a man, those things don't do a thing for me but woman are turned on by those things.

I can't think of a bigger display of strength than What he did. It was like rams locking horns to prove who's the strongest and will get the girl. Well you didn't even try, you basically laid on your back and showed him your belly.


----------



## jsmart

italianjob said:


> I would try to dig deeper if I were you...
> *His behavior and his words to the dogs suggest that he wanted to make the point that he's been in your house recently (or way more recently than six months ago).
> My reading is that he wanted to show your wife he could rub your nose in it without you being any wiser about it.
> Your wife's embarassed silence may also be a sign that there was much more than sexting to this story, and that she was afraid that it might come out.
> I think that the EA was a PA and went on much longer after you discovered it*; maybe she cut it expressing fear about a possible violent reaction from you, and the episode was the OM way to show your wife he had no fear.
> 
> Don't let this go, look into it...


I agree. There is more here. OP thinks it was only a 2 week EA based on a few text that were found. That sounds like some serious trickle truth. 

If by slight chance what the OP thinks happened and the wife has been honest all this time, which I don't believe, then this guys alpha display will get a response from his wife. I would bet she has already contacted him since Sunday. If not when he contacts her she will be receptive.


----------



## jsmart

TRy said:


> It was only "stupid and reckless" if you had called him out on it. Since you did not, he fully accomplished what he was trying to do. *He acted like an Alpha as he walked pasted you into your home, pet your dog as if he owned the place, made you look Beta as he proposed helping your wife fold the laundry as if you had no say in the matter, and let your wife know that he was ready and willing to resume the affair. The other man placed the ball in your wife's court again, with you not being considered a factor that he respected. When your wife took action by standing up and saying that you were both going to go to bed, his comment "oh so that is how this is going to be" and "see you around", was a show of direct disregard for you and your marriage. *
> 
> It is not too late to fix it. Call him up and tell him that for the sake of your wife, you did not confront him when her father was there. Tell him that next time he will not be so lucky if he contacts your wife ever again. If he asks what you will do about it, tell him that you are not going to telegraphs in advance your actions, and that he will just have to be surprised.


:iagree:

OP's display of weakness compared to POS's boldness is such a sharp contrast. You know the wife tingled over this. She felt uncomfortable because she didn't want husband to notice how turned on she was. If he didn't hit that already, which I suspect he already did, he will be soon.


----------



## jsmart

ThePheonix said:


> Let it go at your own peril. I'm a 1st degree black belt ( Tai Kwondo) and former golden gloves boxer so I know the tendency and training to avoid trouble unless overtly attacked. *This douche bag was there to make a point. Again, the timing of you avoiding him at the lumber yard and him showing up at your house, strutting like a banty rooster, is uncanny. * Plus it obviously bothers you or you wouldn't be posting. At a minimum, you need to tell his wife along with a message for him not to come back. Hopefully he'll confront you where you can clarify your position. Hell dawg, I almost wish I had the opportunity.


His passiveness in the face of such a threat to his marriage is mind boggling. That POS was claiming his wife. How the hell do you let someone into your house that was at a minimum trying to bang your wife. That douche should be the one crossing the street when OP is around. Not the other way around.


----------



## Divinely Favored

She admits that it was moving in that direction. (PHYSICAL) 

there was no sexting but yet she admits it was moving toward physical and the way he talked about not being there in a few weeks and the look on her face is very suspicious. this just don't pass the smell test. I believe they were talking and meeting somewhere possibly your house for it to get to the level of about to go physical.

I don't believe you have the whole story I would buy some VARs for the house maybe one for her car and before you leave tell her the suspicions you have your going to need a polygraph you are to pick up some good conversation between her and her girlfriends. you may find out she was telling the truth or you may find out you did not know as much as you thought you did


----------



## old red

you have some serious thinking to do. the ap should never have been let in through the front door. however, his comment re only having seen your dogs a couple of weeks ago demands serious investigation. 

achieving a 6th degree black belt is very commendable. however, you have to investigate why you "froze" while confronted. reflect on your training - how much training time have you spent doing alive/unrehearsed training while in a truly adrenal state? your training may have given you knowledge, discipline and strength, but it may not have taught you how to fight or face confrontation. if, after reflection, you believe that your training has prepared you for a real confrontation, then it is essential that you work out why it is that you froze. perhaps your gut knows that something isn't right, and your instincts are pushing you to observe. after all, if you didn't let the guy in, you would not have heard the comment about your dogs, and you would not have seen your wife's white-faced reaction.

you have a lot to investigate - chief among these things being what really happened between this clown and your wife, and how recently it has been that he has been around to your house while you have not been around. i am sorry that you are in this situation.


----------



## ThePheonix

Bigdog, you wrote in asking what to make of this. Now you know and the ball is in your court. Redemption for you gross mishandling of the situation is still available but fading fast. As far as you wife is concerned, remember the last words of a famous and powerful man. ""Et tu, Brute?".


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months.


 You have no idea if it has been 6 months. His affair with your wife was not just over the phone, by email or text, but involved regularly seeing her alone in your home. If he did see her at your home "a few weeks" ago, you checking bills and online history would not show that.


----------



## Chaparral

bigdogs said:


> At this point I believe my wife. In two months there has been 40 phone calls from her cell. All to numbers I know. Only 195 texts again all to numbers I know. She has been remorseful and working hard.


How many texts were on her cell bill during the affair? 

If, and from what the OM said, things are different than you thought, you need to do a little detective work, i.e. c*ck blocking.

Get two sony vars at about sixty bucks with lithium batteries. One for your house and one for her car. Typically, when affairs go underground they either buy a burner phone or use text messages that do not show up on the phone bill.

Did you happen to be out of town a few weeks ago?

The dogs were so friendly with him, they didn't act like it had been six months since they saw him, he shows up unexpectedly, known affair, just too many redflags to trust anything they tell you without verifying every word. Did he always play with the dogs before. Are they friendly with strangers?

Your attitude is way to laid back. Black belt or no you are losing respect from your wife at a fast pace. He is trying to bang your wife, you both know it, all you can muster is to avoid him at the lumber store, and stare when he boldly walks into your house. It was left up to your wife to meekly say you were going to bed to get him to leave. OH yeah, he showed up at bedtime?

Get the MMSLP book linked to below and the NOT JUST FRIENDS book. You do not understand the male/ female dynamic and you both need the NJF book. Do not tell your wife youre reading the mmslp book. It can be downloaded at amazon.com too.

Your marriage is on a slippery slope and you are downplaying the seriousness here. EVERYONE here is warning you because this has played out thousands of time here. They all follow a script. Pay attention.


----------



## Chaparral

Another thing to check is her purchase history on her phone. Look to see if any message aps have been bought. People use them because they cant be viewed once deleted. Things like snap chat automatically delete.

Use the VARs, hopefully you will hear something like, "I cant believe that a$$hole came over."

How did the OMW figure out they were in an emotional affair if it only lasted two weeks and there was no mention of sex yet your wife says it was headed that way?


----------



## yeah_right

Tell. His. Wife.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

OP is going to get pissed at this:
Most Martial Arts these days are tournament based, meaning they are not taught to maim and kill, just to outmaneuver your opponent and "tap" them for the point.

Most Martial Arts these days are Physically based, often working in the mental area through tournament fighting strategy.

His MA is distance based, meaning using the legs as primary weapons.

This OM moved in close and delivered a mental and spiritual attack which OP is not trained for.

EA's live in this world of planning and talking, texting, flirting, strategizing, up close and personal. It is the spiritual part that does the most damage and most Martial Arts have no idea the spiritual fight even occurs. They don't train for it. It's considered "mumbo jumbo" in the civilized world.

So with that in mind, lets drop the "black belt" issue since it doesn't apply. OP is just an ordinary guy with a spiritual and mental problem.
He is clearly unequipped with the weapons he needs. That's what TAM is good for. 

Most of the advice here is very good and he should follow it as he follows direction on the Dojo floor. Consider your wife as an opponent.

He is in a spiritual war with his wife. This war plays out time and time again here on TAM and in the homes of married folk all the time.

OM is just a tool, a spear tip wielded by his wife. OP gets stuck in the gut by OM while his wife is holding the shaft of the spear from a distance. She may not even be aware of this. That's how the spirit world works. But is happening.

He said he is going on a trip soon, leaving a void in his defenses.

I'd hate to be in his shoes right about now.

As Mike Tyson says it all:
Mike Tyson Quotes - BrainyQuote

OP wipe the blood off your face and beat this down.


----------



## italianjob

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Bigdogs - let's assume you're completely right about your wife. She was attracted to this guy, she told him she may have married the wrong guy, and was moving toward PA when his wife ratted them out.
> 
> She didn't stop the affair. BUT she was caught and realized she couldn't be a cake water and went full out in reconciliation.
> 
> He, on the other hand, had marital issues. He still has a hottie who wants him and almost got to PA.
> 
> He probably did track down your wife - maybe several times. She is still attracted and in the best case scenario she flirted a second but said I want to make this work - go away. Maybe this had been happening on dog walks.
> 
> Maybe they discussed the store incident and he told her nothing would happen if you two met. She actually relayed that to you.
> 
> So he is trying to keep this alive and she had not been hostile but pleasant but distant. So he believes he can work this from the inside. He may assume she has told you they have chatted "harmlessly".
> 
> It would explain everything.
> 
> Remember cheaters lie even to themselves. You don't know the whole story.


Well, this is some sort of "best case scenario", and while I hope it may be true, I'm afraid that the real situation may be worse than this



MarriedGuy221 said:


> It would explain her freaked out reaction. That kind of reaction can happen when people feel guilty.
> 
> About people deceiving themselves - if she pushed him away a few times she may have felt like she already handled it and wanted avoid derailing reconciliation by telling you. It's reasonable. If she can explain it in a way that she's not at fault and you won't be mad she may confess.
> 
> You might try telling her all your buddies are thinking this guy has been trying to talk to her which is why he made the dogs comment.


I would avoid, for the time being, offering her a prefab "not so bad" explanation of events. Sure, it may be easier to get some sort of confession, but it would complicate things if OP wants to really know the whole truth. 
Try to get "independent" information first, if you can, that means information that comes from a source different than your wife.


----------



## bigfoot

Okay, so I am about to step into a hornets nest, but I do so not to offend, but to get clarity.

First, based on the summary by bigdog, this sounds like it was about to go into an EA, but was not one. I don't think opposite sex friends talking about dissatisfaction in their relationships creates an EA. I think that it was headed in that direction, as his wife said. Others may disagree, but if that was the sum total of everything, then I can wrap my mind around the man coming over. sort of a we were going in a bad direction, it stopped, we have been punished and now lets move on. Not saying that is a good thing, but i can see that being his position.

On the other hand, they did take it underground or it was soooo much more than has been disclosed. It could have been somewhat physical, or more squarely an EA, but you don't know the true scope. Maybe they used other modes of communication to avoid detection and got caught with some un-deleted stuff and just took a plea to that.

IF the latter is the case, then his actions were waaay out of line. Your wife's reaction is also troubling me. It sounds like she was keeping quiet to avoid him saying something that she did not want out there. If he was drinking, she knew he had lower inhibitions and if she said GTFO or something like that, he would have spilled the beans. Alternatively, he showed up too soon. 

This whole scenario does not make any sense. Did you ever do a polygraph on her? I don't recall. I do get your reaction, however. I think that your mind was trying to process a whole lot of stuff at one time and put things together that were not making any sense. It happens. Still, this does not pass the smell test on so many levels.


----------



## Thor

DoneWithHurting said:


> OM is just a tool, a spear tip wielded by his wife. OP gets stuck in the gut by OM while his wife is holding the shaft of the spear from a distance. She may not even be aware of this. That's how the spirit world works. But is happening.


:iagree: QFT


----------



## Divinely Favored

bigfoot said:


> Okay, so I am about to step into a hornets nest, but I do so not to offend, but to get clarity.
> 
> First, based on the summary by bigdog, this sounds like it was about to go into an EA, but was not one. I don't think opposite sex friends talking about dissatisfaction in their relationships creates an EA. I think that it was headed in that direction, as his wife said. Others may disagree, but if that was the sum total of everything, then I can wrap my mind around the man coming over. sort of a we were going in a bad direction, it stopped, we have been punished and now lets move on. Not saying that is a good thing, but i can see that being his position.
> 
> On the other hand, they did take it underground or it was soooo much more than has been disclosed. It could have been somewhat physical, or more squarely an EA, but you don't know the true scope. Maybe they used other modes of communication to avoid detection and got caught with some un-deleted stuff and just took a plea to that.
> 
> IF the latter is the case, then his actions were waaay out of line. Your wife's reaction is also troubling me. It sounds like she was keeping quiet to avoid him saying something that she did not want out there. If he was drinking, she knew he had lower inhibitions and if she said GTFO or something like that, he would have spilled the beans. Alternatively, he showed up too soon.
> 
> This whole scenario does not make any sense. Did you ever do a polygraph on her? I don't recall. I do get your reaction, however. I think that your mind was trying to process a whole lot of stuff at one time and put things together that were not making any sense. It happens. Still, this does not pass the smell test on so many levels.


SHE admitted that it was heading towards physical not just EA.

VAR and poly! If you are near Dallas I will give you the person our agency uses.


----------



## Sammiee

Seems like he didn't expect you to be home.

Was your car in the garage at the time he showed up?

Did he appear surprised to see you at the door?


----------



## bigfoot

Thanks Divinely Favored for the clarification. In that case, I doubt the truthfulness of her disclosures.

If they were progressing towards a physical affair and then got caught and then he shows up at your house like that, after this long, without so much as a phone call to you to say that he'd like to clear the air or something like that, then something is afoot.

When things don't make sense, it is usually because you don't know all of the facts. 

Its possible that he just showed up, but then he would have done that for a confrontation purpose. In that case, he would have instigated the confrontation. he could have been testing to see how you wold react, but again, he would have been escalating his conduct prior to showing up, sort of building the nerve to take it to the next step of confrontation.

Maybe she cut it off with him or threatened to cut if off, RECENTLY, and he showed up to test her. Maybe she told him that she confessed to you or was going to confess to you and he showed up to call her bluff because she has been trying to break it off for a while. In that case, it has been ongoing. Actually, that makes the most sense to me because it explains her behavior, it explains why he acted like he did (he knew she had not confessed because you would have come to him first to kick his azz, and she was not going to confess because of what she had to lose). This was for her. You need to polygraph her or just sit her down, look on the verge of tears and rage while looking her in the eye and say, "I had a talk with AP about why he came over..."

Alternatively, it is still going on and he was surprised by your being there. Of course, if there were signs that you were there, he would not have come over. She would have called him over to say that you were gone and the coast was clear. Therefore, this scenario is possible but not probable.


----------



## bigdogs

My car was parked out front of my house along with hers and her dad's. My dogs were not being friendly towards him, they were growling and wouldn't stop barking. 

I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him. I don't see how. It is illegal in our state to VAR people. 

I have not contacted his wife. My wife and I agreed to cut both of them out of our lives so we are NC


----------



## tom67

You are not using the var for court you are using it to make sure the affair isn't still going.
Now go get 2 put one in her car and one in the house.


----------



## Sammiee

bigdogs said:


> I have not contacted his wife. My wife and I agreed to cut both of them out of our lives so we are NC


Why would you agree to cut the OMs wife out of your life, she can be a great ally.

Time to change that agreement.


----------



## yeah_right

bigdogs said:


> My car was parked out front of my house along with hers and her dad's. My dogs were not being friendly towards him, they were growling and wouldn't stop barking.
> 
> I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him. I don't see how. It is illegal in our state to VAR people.
> 
> *I have not contacted his wife. My wife and I agreed to cut both of them out of our lives so we are N*C


That agreement is obviously not working since the OM is not gone. Tell his wife. She is your ally. If your wife was your ally, she would be fine with that too...she's supposedly over him, right?????????

Protect your marriage ASAP. Your wife gave up certain privileges by having an affair. Trust is one of them.

For the love of God, please tell the OM's wife!


----------



## bigdogs

His wife is unstable. Maybe even more than he is. I was in contact with her for the first few months. Then I figured out much of what she was telling me was not the truth.


----------



## jsmart

bigdogs said:


> My car was parked out front of my house along with hers and her dad's. My dogs were not being friendly towards him, they were growling and wouldn't stop barking.
> 
> I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him. I don't see how. It is illegal in our state to VAR people.
> 
> I have not contacted his wife. *My wife and I agreed to cut both of them out of our lives so we are NC*


I can understand why your wife wanted to cut contact. But you have an interest in keeping contact with her. The BW can be your ally in keeping her husband away from your wife. 

As for placing a VAR in wife's car and where she does most of her talking is for your own investigation not for court. This POS is gunning for your wife and you're worried about legal details. 

Dude you are facing a serious threat. You need to verify if this is over or if there has still been something going on. You can base it on your wife's word. Cheaters lie.


----------



## Chaparral

bigdogs said:


> His wife is unstable. Maybe even more than he is. I was in contact with her for the first few months. Then I figured out much of what she was telling me was not the truth.


You're saying he's unstable. Yet your wife found him attractive and had an affair with him.

What proof do you have his wife is the unstable one. She just may not be as gullible as you are. Your wife and her ap doesn't think that highly of you either. Their affair proves that.


----------



## Chaparral

A VAR is only for your information. You never reveal the fact you used one. You never reveal any of your sources. You only use them to ascertain the truth. Divorce is almost always no fault and proof doesn't matter to the legal system.

You use any tool you can to protect your family. That's a man's number one responsibility in life.


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> My car was parked out front of my house along with hers and her dad's. My dogs were not being friendly towards him, they were growling and wouldn't stop barking.
> 
> I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him. I don't see how. It is illegal in our state to VAR people.
> 
> I have not contacted his wife. My wife and I agreed to cut both of them out of our lives so we are NC


:slap:


----------



## bigdogs

His wife calling and texting me with information. When I started looking into what she was telling me I found out things were straightout made up. When I asked her about it she admitted it. I have had nothing to do with her since. 

I love my wife. We are working hard to make things work. I can understand her reaction when she saw him. We thought they were out of our lives and have him waltz in when we were relaxed and comfortable freaked us all out. 

I am worried about his motives not because I think they are still in contact but because what if he shows up when I am not here and he trys something. If his marriage and life is falling apart he may try to take it out on her.


----------



## Chaparral

See how hard it is in your area to get a protective order on someone. You really ought to tell him not to come around in addition to an order anyway.


----------



## Sammiee

bigdogs said:


> His wife calling and texting me with information. When I started looking into what she was telling me I found out things were straightout made up.


Is that so or is that what you want to think?


----------



## bigdogs

His wife lied to me not about everything, but a lot. She would send me a text saying they were together when she was sitting right beside me. She forgot we had a teenager in the house that uses my wife's car. when enough things didn't make sense I asked her she admits to lying about somethings.


----------



## Sammiee

Oh. Well then she can't be trusted for the truth but you could still make the guy's life more miserable by telling her he came by unannounced.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

I'd advise having someone you trust that can help defend if necessary when you are on your trip. 

These two sound like nut jobs.

See... this is what you get for inviting someone else into your life (meaning your wife).


----------



## ThePheonix

bigdogs said:


> *What if he was just not expecting me to be there.*





bigdogs said:


> *Has she been in contact with him. Is she hiding things from me?*





bigdogs said:


> *My car was parked out front of my house along with hers and her dad's.*
> 
> *I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him.*


So, have you worked through the inconsistencies?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bigdogs said:


> I am worried about his motives not because I think they are still in contact but because what if he shows up when I am not here and he trys something. If his marriage and life is falling apart he may try to take it out on her.


Yes, I agree. Him showing up out of the blue does not make sense if they only had an EA. This was an action of someone who has either had a PA, or was very close to having one with your wife.

Him showing up makes sense on some levels though. He walks in unannounced and uninvited. Acts nice as pie to your wife, your FIL and you. Didn't he even pat the dogs and mention something about it being e few weeks since he'd seen them?...

Now, he leaves. Then after the FIL leaves and you are alone(kids upstairs?...) with your wife, you are supposed to fly off you hinges. Accuse your wife of still having contact with him. Then he just waits for her to call...

In all seriousness, I would find it troubling that he felt he needed to pop by that day. It's like he wants you to start snooping on your wife. If so, one has to wonder what he thinks you may find if you look hard enough...


----------



## BobSimmons

bigdogs said:


> His wife calling and texting me with information. When I started looking into what she was telling me I found out things were straightout made up. When I asked her about it she admitted it. I have had nothing to do with her since.
> 
> I love my wife. We are working hard to make things work. I can understand her reaction when she saw him. We thought they were out of our lives and have him waltz in when we were relaxed and comfortable freaked us all out.
> 
> I am worried about his motives not because I think they are still in contact but because what if he shows up when I am not here and he trys something. If his marriage and life is falling apart he may try to take it out on her.


It's really very simple.

Go to his house and tell him never to set foot in there again and you're not friends.

In that way it makes it clear for everybody and the bounderies are set.

It's really very simpl.. *de ja vu*

In all honesty mate this passive aggressive stuff is getting you nowhere. A man essentially alpha maled you off in your own home.. in front of your family.

Here you're talking about if he does this and I'm worried if he does that, for all the black belt talk one thing is for sure. You have no control.

If he's not welcome in your house then you damn well as the man of the house go and tell him he's not welcome. If said man shows up at your house after being told he's not welcome then that's harrassment and you can call the cops or kick his a** with your black belt skills.

Don't know what to make of this..

It's not about physicality, it's about mentality. You're a belt black physicality but in straight up alpha male dog term this guy is 7th dan black belt because he has a big pair to walk up into your house like that.

Stop worrying and fretting and sort it out.


----------



## synthetic

> I do not believe my wife has been in contact with him.


Believe what you want, but your wife is lying to you

I'll keep repeating this until you man up and find out the truth instead of being in denial.

"I love my wife" is a terrible excuse for your passivity (laziness)


----------



## bigdogs

synthetic said:


> Believe what you want, but your wife is lying to you
> 
> I'll keep repeating this until you man up and find out the truth instead of being in denial.
> 
> "I love my wife" is a terrible excuse for your passivity (laziness)


I do not believe that my wife is lying to me. IMHO there has been no way there could have been any contact between them. She has been very transparent with everything that she does. Between her work and her school and taking care of the household things there is no time for anything else. I have access to her phone, her facebook and we share a computer.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Did you really float the "no time" argument? That is one of the weakest most often used excuses by men who have their head buried in the sand.

He, unexpectedly, showed up at your house.


----------



## Tobyboy

She could have a burner phone. Skip school. Take off early from work. Take a long lunch. Use work phone. Use work computer. Stop at OMs place on the way to the store. This guy is all over your home and wife!!! Open your eyes dude!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigdogs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Did you really float the "no time" argument? That is one of the weakest most often used excuses by men who have their head buried in the sand.
> 
> He, unexpectedly, showed up at your house.


This affair is not still happening. I completely believe her when she said she cut him out of our lives. She will not even go in the grocery store unless she circles the parking lot to make sure that they are not inside. She has not given me any red flags to be worried about. She has given me full access to everything. How could they be in contact and it not show up in some way.

I am going to say that this was him trying to cause problems.


----------



## yeah_right

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Did you really float the "no time" argument? That is one of the weakest most often used excuses by men who have their head buried in the sand.
> 
> *He, unexpectedly, showed up at your house.*


On Easter no less! Obviously the OM is finding the time to leave his family on a holiday to "visit" your wife.


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> I do not believe that my wife is lying to me. IMHO there has been no way there could have been any contact between them. She has been very transparent with everything that she does. Between her work and her school and taking care of the household things there is no time for anything else. I have access to her phone, her facebook and we share a computer.


As I said earlier please get a couple of VARs and hide them before you go away for the weekend and make a lot of us wrong


----------



## PhillyGuy13

You are probably right. It was probably him causing trouble that Easter Sunday. You had said he was sniffing around all his wife's friends when he was separated, right? 

Have you spoken to any of them or their husbands? I know his wife is unstable from what you said but have you made contact with any of those other folks? Is he still sniffing around them?

The other question I have. Why is she "afraid" of bumping into him at a supermarket? That seems like a crappy way to live, constantly looking over your shoulder. Is he dangerous? She was perfectly willing to play along with him six months ago. What has changed? Bump into him at the grocery store? Say "leave me alone" and keep walking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bigdogs said:


> This affair is not still happening.


I never said it was, I addressed your specific point. You floated the no time argument and I disagreed with your conclusion.



> I completely believe her when she said she cut him out of our lives. She will not even go in the grocery store unless she circles the parking lot to make sure that they are not inside. She has not given me any red flags to be worried about. She has given me full access to everything.


Good. I guess you asked for the video of this being done?


> How could they be in contact and it not show up in some way.


He randomly showed up at your house. It will sound amazing, but people still communicate with words and in close physical proximity to each other. 



> I am going to say that this was him trying to cause problems.


Sure it was, he was being alpha and marking his territory. You better not let it happen again.


----------



## italianjob

When something happens and it doesn't make sense to you, it means you don't have all the facts leading up to that "something" happening.

It might be the OM has gone completely crazy, or it might be that he is a stalker, or the affair with your wife might have been different in duration and depth than what you think you know.
You don't really know and we don't really know, either.

Whatever it is, anyway, it messes with the safety and security of your house, your family, your marriage.

Deciding not to look into it is just foolish and dangerous, IMO.


----------



## bigdogs

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Dude - my sweet MIL - librarian, church lady, never said a bad word about anyone, never judged anyone, said "oh dear" quite a bit (passed away in 2001 )
> 
> She had a friend who had a life long affair with a married man. Her friend was devistated that she couldn't go to his funeral when he died.
> 
> We talked to her about this apparent inconsistency (turns out there wasn't any - she simply didn't judge others).
> 
> My SIL was talking about a friend with lots of issues etc and talking about an affair, but SIL said that was CRAZY - the woman worked, had kids, was busy 24/7. How could she possibly have time for an affair?
> 
> MIL gently smiles and said "you make time, dear, if it's important to you."
> 
> 
> SHE DOESNT HAVE TIME IS NOT A VALID EXCUSE.



She does not have time is not a valid excuse. The fact that we are in reconciliation and working hard to build a better marriage is the reason that I know that she is no longer in contact with him.

I know that she drives around the parking lot to make sure they are not in there because the kids tell me she does. She does not want to run into them at the grocery store or anywhere else because she feels that would be inviting them back into our lives. 

In the beginning I did it all. I had a GPS on her car, I snuck peek at her cell phone. I went though her laundry sniffing it. After four months of this I decided I needed to either trust her or end it. That was two months ago. 

There has only been one time in the last six months where I didn't know where she was. She was gone for 10 minutes to walk up to the movie theater to get her purse. She had left it in the seat while out to the movies with her friends. When I got upset she explained what happened and has been extra dilagent about making sure I feel comfortable with what she is doing.


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> I know that she is no longer in contact with him.
> 
> She had left it in the seat while out to the movies with her friends.


:slap:


----------



## bigdogs

G.J. said:


> :slap:


I dropped her at the movies and picked her up. Just didn't realize she didn't have her purse. The theater is 4 blocks from our home. I mean sometimes **it happens. Can't read things in when there is nothing to read. Sometimes you can't find anything because there is nothing to find. This is about him not her.


----------



## ThePheonix

Bigdog, it sounds like the concerns expressed in your original post have been assuaged for some reason. You've changed from being a inquirer/investigator/advise seeker to a defense attorney. What happened to cause you to drop your concerns?


----------



## kenmoore14217

"This is about him not her. Wrong!! This is very much about her. Your wife, the woman you married.


----------



## thenub

I'm looking at this from a slightly different angle. 
This guy brazenly walks up to your front door and rings the bell. Your wife gets this sickly look on her face. He says he hasn't seen the dogs in a couple weeks. 
Maybe your wife had previously mentioned you were going away for a while. He could have possibly thought you wouldn't be home. 
I'm thinking your wife and this guy have already made the A physical. And if you had been on more than a few trips in the last year, they were probably using your bedroom for their hookups. 
Just another thing to consider.


----------



## bigdogs

ThePheonix said:


> Bigdog, it sounds like the concerns expressed in your original post have been assuaged for some reason. You've changed from being a inquirer/investigator/advise seeker to a defense attorney. What happened to cause you to drop your concerns?


I am concerned about him and his motives. Not my wife and hers. I understand her feeling gutshot when he walked in the door. I felt the exact same way. I am just trying to figure out what would make a man after 6 months of no contact get brazen enough to walk up to my front door. Knowing that I am home and ring the bell. Maybe FIL is correct and he was wanting to make amends. Maybe he figured since it was not physical it was just time to get over it and things would go back to normal. It didn't get that far.


----------



## synthetic

ThePheonix said:


> Bigdog, it sounds like the concerns expressed in your original post have been assuaged for some reason. You've changed from being a inquirer/investigator/advise seeker to a defense attorney. What happened to cause you to drop your concerns?


He found the whole thing 'uncomfortable'. Just like he found the other man's bold move uncomfortable. 

Abandoning the comfort-zone is not something he's willing to consider for now.

btw, bigdogs, *your wife is lying to you*


----------



## italianjob

bigdogs said:


> I am concerned about him and his motives. Not my wife and hers. I understand her feeling gutshot when he walked in the door. I felt the exact same way. I am just trying to figure out what would make a man after 6 months of no contact get brazen enough to walk up to my front door. Knowing that I am home and ring the bell. Maybe FIL is correct and he was wanting to make amends. Maybe he figured since it was not physical it was just time to get over it and things would go back to normal. It didn't get that far.


The way you described the episode it doesn't sound AT ALL like someone trying to make amends or getting over something.

I'm under the impression that you came here seeking reassurance, found the opposite and are now hiding in denial. You sound afraid to look for the truth.

Maybe the OM knew what he was doing...


----------



## bigdogs

synthetic said:


> He found the whole thing 'uncomfortable'. Just like he found the other man's bold move uncomfortable.
> 
> Abandoning the comfort-zone is not something he's willing to consider for now.
> 
> btw, bigdogs, *your wife is lying to you*


My wife is not lying to me. What is she lying about. I am 100% sure of her.


----------



## Dogbert

Return the favor and have yourself and your wife pay the OM's wife a visit and inform her of his uninvited visit to your home.

If he attempts another visit, inform him to "Leave, and never return" and close the door in his face.


----------



## LongWalk

How is your sex life?


----------



## robtheshadow

I see two different possibilities here. 

Your wife has been leading OM on, telling him she's going to leave you, wants to be with him etc...and he came by thinking you were not around or to see if she'd kept her word about getting rid of you.

Or best case: The EA wasn't really a big deal to the OM because he's been flirting with other women too, your wife felt far worse about it than he does and he's surprised that a "little indiscretion" has blown up to such proportions that he's not welcome around people he thought were friends, hence the "so that's how it's going to be" comment.


----------



## BobSimmons

italianjob said:


> The way you described the episode it doesn't sound AT ALL like someone trying to make amends or getting over something.
> 
> I'm under the impression that you came here seeking reassurance, found the opposite and are now hiding in denial. You sound afraid to look for the truth.
> 
> Maybe the OM knew what he was doing...


I think you'll find he skirts over this kind of advice.

Seems to talk awful plenty now but when a man who's been trying to get with your wife shows up at your house, stays, makes small talk, and you're just standing there for let's say what, at the least 5 minutes not uttering a single word?

Don't mean to be harsh but it comes across a tad emasculating. And just like he didn't confront the OM, he seems to be refusing to confront what's right before him.


----------



## bigdogs

LongWalk said:


> How is your sex life?



For the first 4 months we didn't touch at all. It is now back to a regular schedule and very good.


----------



## jsmart

italianjob said:


> The way you described the episode it doesn't sound AT ALL like someone trying to make amends or getting over something.
> 
> *I'm under the impression that you came here seeking reassurance, found the opposite and are now hiding in denial. You sound afraid to look for the truth.*
> 
> Maybe the OM knew what he was doing...


It does seem like he was expecting people to reassure him that it was not a big deal. Just be more pro-active next time. But when both male & female posters started telling him this is a big deal and that it looked suspicious, he was not prepared to face the possibility that the R is suspect.


----------



## jsmart

bigdogs said:


> *For the first 4 months we didn't touch at all. * It is now back to a regular schedule and very good.


Whoa, that is NOT good. That points to her having had a PA.

When there is no hysterical bonding, it usually is because she wanted to be loyal to OM.


----------



## bigdogs

BobSimmons said:


> I think you'll find he skirts over this kind of advice.
> 
> Seems to talk awful plenty now but when a man who's been trying to get with your wife shows up at your house, stays, makes small talk, and you're just standing there for let's say what, at the least 5 minutes not uttering a single word?
> 
> Don't mean to be harsh but it comes across a tad emasculating. And just like he didn't confront the OM, he seems to be refusing to confront what's right before him.


I am not afraid to look for the truth. It just seems that everyone is so eager to throw out there that my wife is a liar and is still lying. I am just saying that she has come a long way and has worked so hard on being a better person, and a wife. I am not willing to throw all that work down the drain and start all over from square one. I do look for red flags and I do have questions and she answers every one of them looking me square in the eye. There is no hesitation. She even offered to take a lie detector. We can't afford it. When I say that she is being an open book she is.

I did decide to send his wife a text and let her know that he stopped over. Found out he is not staying with her at night anymore. They still work together during the day but he stays at their apartment in another town at night.


----------



## Remains

He made a desperate attempt at reconnection after his wife got rid of him? 

It all sounds weird to me but from what you say about your wife you are sure she is good. The gut feeling is not there? 

In which case, he was making some desperate attempt for friends with you and in turn your wife. Some people are just weird and have funny ways of getting what they want. 

Certainly I assume your reaction was just after the shock of first time him just walking in your house after it all. No one expects that. You don't just beat someone up for that! And it's a big surprise! I have been frozen by surprise many times. Hindsight is great when you can say 'why didn't you....' Especially when you can point a finger at an anonymous Internet user. 

And I'm sure next time if it happens, you'll not be so passive next time? - though no doubt not beat and end up in jail. I get why you passive were first time. And don't see why folk do you down for not beating crap out of him!!!! I mean heck, really! They wouldn't have either. And had you been posting about being in prison right now for GBH, they'd be the first for saying how best you could have dealt with this situation! 

People are weird. If your wife is doing all correct and this is verified, then there is only one conclusion to come to. He was desperate at that moment and in that time. No friends, and his wife had just kicked him out?


----------



## jsmart

bigdogs said:


> I am not afraid to look for the truth. *It just seems that everyone is so eager to throw out there that my wife is a liar and is still lying*. I am just saying that she has come a long way and has worked so hard on being a better person, and a wife. *I am not willing to throw all that work down the drain and start all over from square one. * I do look for red flags and I do have questions and she answers every one of them looking me square in the eye. There is no hesitation. She even offered to take a lie detector. We can't afford it. When I say that she is being an open book she is.
> 
> I did decide to send his wife a text and let her know that he stopped over. *Found out he is not staying with her at night anymore. * They still work together during the day but he stays at their apartment in another town at night.


BigDogs, we on this board do not know you, your wife, or this pos but what we do know is spotting suspect actions of adulterers. We are not attacking your wife and I'm sure everyone on this board would be so happy to find that there is nothing going on but when you read thread after thread you see the similarities.

Many on this board have also become knowledgeable on male/female sexual dynamics. Even the female posters on your thread were repulsed by your meekness. I would bet that your wife was actually turned on by him showing up at your door like that. Her think would be "he is so crazy to do that. He must want me so bad. Dam that is hot. I want him." 

Now you just found out he is no longer living at home. He's obviously on the prowl again. The fact that you guys didn't have sex for 4 months after being exposed, makes me think it was physical with POS and lasted longer than you think.


----------



## bigdogs

I wouldn't have sex with her. I wouldn't let her touch me. First four months. Were rough


----------



## Remains

Btw, no sex ALWAYS means she's just not that into you.....and most likely (if the signs suggest it ) getting it elsewhere. 

She can easily not be into you and getting nothing. 

But if she's out for nights out regular, she'll be out for a pull.


----------



## bigdogs

When everything first happened, I could not look at her, let alone have sex with her. I could barely speak to her. It was not until I seen all the work she was doing and changes she was making that I wanted to be apart of that. It took me four months to be sexually attracted to her again.


----------



## synthetic

The guy said he hasn't seen your dogs for "a few weeks". This is what you said. This is what you witnessed with your own eyes and heard with your own ears.

Yet, you are sure that your wife is telling the truth about having no interaction with him for months?!!

Are you reading what you typed yourself?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

synthetic said:


> Are you reading what you typed yourself?


I completely missed that part of his post.. 



> The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about *I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. *
> 
> 
> *She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. *


My wife has a screwed up sense of time and even she won't say 6 months was "a few weeks" ago.


Man, my wife and I would have had a long talk while he was still at the house. She may be telling the truth about the lack of contact, but I'd be seriously be questioning her about it being an emotional affair.


----------



## LongWalk

When you started having sex again, did you feel like you were forgiving her or letting her in again?

It may be that she did have a PA. That in itself does not mean you cannot reconcile.

Also, the timing on his comment about the last time seeing the dogs also struck me as strange.

Have you taken your wife to a live MMA event?


----------



## lordmayhem

Well, I'm looking at the big picture and I'm not so sure the WW is lying, because I think that the OM may be lying about the dogs not seeing him in a few weeks.

The reason I think OM is lying is because of this:


He came over to rub it in the OPs face
Because he came over to rub it in the OPs face, thinking the OP wouldn't do anything violent in front of his FIL, he may have made the comment as an additional dig at the OP
The dogs reacted like he was almost like total stranger to the home, and not someone who has been there regularly or even on occasion, and his comment was meant to deflect the reaction of the dogs.

But that's just my guess.


----------



## ThePheonix

If this douche bag showed up drunk it would be understandable although not acceptable. He showed up stone sober as far as its revealed. My take is that he wanted to demonstrate he could invade Bigdog's territory unfettered and without consequence. Again, I believe he heard about the lumber yard incident and the comment Bigdog made; "_ I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face." _ Hence, the douche was there, elbowed his way inside, to prove that nothing would happen, as the wife predicted, even when personal space and property was invaded, notwithstanding the lumber yard. At best, Bigdog, you came off looking like toothless tiger. I'm getting this impression from your own account of what happened. It wasn't your finest hour my man.


----------



## jsmart

ThePheonix said:


> If this douche bag showed up drunk it would be understandable although not acceptable. He showed up stone sober as far as its revealed. *My take is that he wanted to demonstrate he could invade Bigdog's territory unfettered and without consequence. Again, I believe he heard about the lumber yard incident and the comment Bigdog made; " I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face."  Hence, the douche was there, elbowed his way inside, to prove that nothing would happen, as the wife predicted, even when personal space and property was invaded, notwithstanding the lumber yard. At best, Bigdog, you came off looking like toothless tiger. * I'm getting this impression from your own account of what happened. It wasn't your finest hour my man.


I'm sensing a lot of fear from OP too. Fear of this POS and fear of offending wife. He went from being inquisitive about motives to playing defense for his wife. 

The problem is avoiding conflict doesn't mean you avoid problems. The incident at lumber yard and now at the house has this douche emboldened. The guy is no longer living with his wife. So he is looking for another sex partner. The fastest route would be something you almost had or as I think, already had.

Bigdogs thinks he's taking the high road by avoiding POS but that has 2 negative consequences. 1 the POS thinks your afraid and gets bolder. 2 your wife sees you as week and not protecting the marriage. It can just spiral from there until he gets into wife's pants.
I said it before and I'll keep saying it. Woman respond to boldness and strength. They are repulsed by weakness. So the bolder POS gets the more aroused she gets for him. The more understanding you try to be the more repulsed she is of husband.


----------



## bigdogs

My wife and I go to MMA together. She is also a martial artist. Although she has not been training much due to knee surgeries.


----------



## jsmart

bigdogs said:


> My wife and I go to MMA together. She is also a martial artist. Although she has not been training much due to knee surgeries.


You sound like a young couple. Do you have kids or is just dogs?


----------



## bigdogs

I am in my early fifties she just turned 40. We have 4 dogs and a 17 yr old at home. We have been together for 11 years.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

Dog - here's how I see it now.

Your wife turning 40 has her thinking.. . or at least affecting her somewhat given your age difference on top of that... hence the Affair.

You believe she is remorseful and being honest that she has had NC nor wants any and you want to believe her.

Your problem is that the POSOM is now free, on the prowl and probably pissed off at his wife and his life. And your wife is a potential target... hence the sniffing around your domain, testing your resolve. You proved yourself a paper tiger pvssy infront of him and your wife, making you look weak in your wife's eyes and him more attractive.

And... you are planning a trip away from home so either she could slip back into her old mindset, even just for a "coffee" to clear the air, or the POSOM may come round seeking out some easy fun to make some trouble.

First, I'd give your wife very clear warning that any contact will result in divorce... that this whole incident has troubled you. Then i'd cancel your trip. It can be put off for a year or however long it would take to reschedule. I am sure you could wait cause this situation really does need your attention.

Whats more important to you? The purpose of the trip or the security of your marriage?


----------



## bigdogs

I can't cancel the trip. She would go with me if we didn't have so many at home obligations.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

bigdogs said:


> I can't cancel the trip. She would go with me if we didn't have so many at home obligations.


You can do whatever the hell you want Dog. I dont care what you think you cant do.

see your PM.


----------



## synthetic

You just avoided my question again.

What happened from 2 days ago when you were questioning your wife's sincerity in having no contact with that guy until now? You changed teams. 

Now we are the ones questioning your wife and you are defending her, when you were the suspicious one that started this thread.

Your wife is 99.99999999% lying about having had no contact with him. No, actually, it's 100%. You know why?

Because the guy got 'upset' when your wife told him "we were just heading to bed". Do you know what that means?

It means he came over with an 'expectation'. Why would he have an expectation if he has had no contact with your wife for 6 months? Why would he think he's entitled to a warmer welcome or goodbye if he hasn't had anything to do with your wife for such a long time? 

Why wasn't your wife more reactive to him being there? Did she somehow wish for it or expect it? Why didn't she tell him to go home? How is this even remotely acceptable in your view?

Your wife is lying to you


----------



## Decorum

If I get the story straight it seems like his wife left the room and came back with something to do so she could monitor the situation, but look non-involved.

Maybe she wanted to do damage control. She did not want to have to interact with him. It all seems weird because it is. It could be all him though.

Was he trying to force her to choose between the two of you?
To put her in the position to deny him, or is it a longer game to get in her head.

If any of you remember Tears thread, her law enforcement husband wanted to meet the POSOM, (a mistake I think), the Pos looked right past her husband and asked "Anne I thought we were building something here, are you in agreement with this". He was acting like her husband was holding her hostage, Makes me mad just thinking about it.

He sounds desperate and unstable. You will not be caught by surprise again.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

It is very possible he got the dates mixed up and thought you were already on your trip.

That would explain both their behaviors.

Dog, go away without building a defense at your own risk.


----------



## bigdogs

I am not avoiding questions, just using a mobile hard to see everything. Yes, for one brief moment when he spoke I had doubts. I would not be human if I didn't. 

I 100% know nothing is going on between them and has not been. Do I think he may be trying to stir up trouble because his life tanked yes. Do I think he may have feelings for her, yes. 

She has arranged a girl's night in for the weekend I am gone. Her dad will check on them also.


----------



## jsmart

synthetic said:


> You just avoided my question again.
> 
> What happened from 2 days ago when you were questioning your wife's sincerity in having no contact with that guy until now? You changed teams.
> 
> Now we are the ones questioning your wife and you are defending her, when you were the suspicious one that started this thread.
> 
> *Your wife is 99.99999999% lying about having had no contact with him. No, actually, it's 100%. You know why?
> 
> Because the guy got 'upset' when your wife told him "we were just heading to bed". Do you know what that means?
> 
> It means he came over with an 'expectation'. Why would he have an expectation if he has had no contact with your wife for 6 months? Why would he think he's entitled to a warmer welcome or goodbye if he hasn't had anything to do with your wife for such a long time?
> *
> Why wasn't your wife more reactive to him being there? Did she somehow wish for it or expect it? Why didn't she tell him to go home? How is this even remotely acceptable in your view?
> 
> Your wife is lying to you


After reading so many threads on here and similar forums it's so easy to see the signs. I feel like the guy in the Matrix movie. You can see all of the lines code and predict the next move. For Bigdogs everything doesn't appear as obvious to him. But the more that is revealed the more I'm sure this was a PA and may have just been in a holding pattern.


----------



## jsmart

Decorum said:


> If I get the story straight it seems like his wife left the room and came back with something to do so she could monitor the situation, but look non-involved.
> 
> Maybe she wanted to do damage control. She did not want to have to interact with him. It all seems weird because it is. It could be all him though.
> 
> Was he trying to force her to choose between the two of you?
> To put her in the position to deny him, or is it a longer game to get in her head.
> 
> If any of you remember *Tears thread, her law enforcement husband wanted to meet the POSOM, (a mistake I think), the Pos looked right past her husband and asked "Anne I thought we were building something here, are you in agreement with this". He was acting like her husband was holding her hostage, Makes me mad just thinking about it.*
> 
> He sounds desperate and unstable. You will not be caught by surprise again.


The amount of disrespect some BHs take is sad. Now that I know there is a big age gap and they don't have any kids together, it makes me think she could easily jump ship.


----------



## bigdogs

As I stated earlier. I did all the investigating for months. Was able to prove that affair was not a PA. My wife has had many health. Issues in the last 18 months involving two surgeries on her stomach on top her three knee surgeries as well as a battle with MRSA. The EA started while she was recuperating from her last abdominal surgery. 

Everyone has a different story and maybe mine is not typical.


----------



## ThePheonix

jsmart said:


> Now that I know there is a big age gap and they don't have any kids together, it makes me think she could easily jump ship.


Watch it my man. There's an age gap tween me and my old lady. I wouldn't have it any other way. But at my age, a fifty year old woman is a young chick. When I was twenty to thirty, the "older woman" cougar thing had its appeal. After you approach sixty, not so much. Hence, I'd rather have one ten years younger than ten years older.


----------



## jsmart

ThePheonix said:


> Watch it my man. There's an age gap tween me and my old lady. I wouldn't have it any other way. But at my age, a fifty year old woman is a young chick. When I was twenty to thirty, the "older woman" cougar thing had its appeal. After you approach sixty, not so much. Hence, I'd rather have one ten years younger than ten years older.


I definitely don't see a problem with the age gap. From what I've seen, most couples that divorce were close in age, male about 2 to 3 yrs older. After divorce, most men, if they take care of themselves usually end up remarrying a younger hotter woman and the ex wife end up marrying a older man than what she had before. 

What's funny is that when I was younger, woman in their 40s looked sooo old. Now at 50 my taste have evolved. I see late 40s and even a few early 50s that still look very good. Of course they can't compare with a 30 something but I've always preferred to be with a woman about 2 to 3 years younger. 

But for OP the problem is combining the age difference with the fact that they don't have kids together. I imagine he married her as a single mom or divorcee.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bigdogs said:


> Everyone has a different story and maybe mine is not typical.


The only thing not typical, is your reaction to the affair partner barging into your house, saying he met your dogs, that they knew him and it was only a "few weeks ago."

How many "my wife is sick, I did enough" stories do you want?


----------



## CantePe

I don't think he screwed up. I think OM was looking for a physical reaction from OP to file charges.

This OM is sneaky, he is someone you need to treat very cautiously.

I also think OPs wife isn't telling the whole truth either.


----------



## Chaparral

I kind of think the om is just kind of lacking in smarts. I kinda think he thought he could smooth things over but with ulterior motives.

How did the remark about him helping her fold the clothes go? How did your wife react to that?


----------



## ThePheonix

That may be true Chappy. I understand how Bigdog was blindsided with this cat showing up on Easter. In the future, he has to be cognizant that the douche may feel free to try to approach the family again and Bigdog can't afford to be passive about it. I wouldn't surprised if he approached the wife in a public place. In my way of thinking he needs to send a message that the douche bag is not welcome and any attempt will be considered a willful violation. I'd probably tell my old lady if he show up again at the house, I'm going to kick a mud hole in his azz, a wait to see what happens.


----------



## bigdogs

Chaparral said:


> I kind of think the om is just kind of lacking in smarts. I kinda think he thought he could smooth things over but with ulterior motives.
> 
> How did the remark about him helping her fold the clothes go? How did your wife react to that?


She was upset about the remark. She was upset with me for letting him in the door. She asked me if I smelled alcohol on him. She is not attracted to him. She says she never really was. She said it was nice to have someone to talk to that was having similar marital problems to the ones were were having. He befriended her and I feel he was trying to seduce her while she was at her lowest, physically and mentally because of the surgeries and our financial issues. My stupidity nearly cost us our house. She trusted me to take care of things while she was healing and I lied and hid things from her. I took our house payment monies and paid the rent for my businesses instead. She had no clue until the foreclosure notice came. Then she just shut down on me. She told me we needed to go to counseling to figure things out. I refused so she just quit trying with our marriage, and I let her. 

My wife already has an order of protection against his wife. Although it will expire at the end of this month. We were not planning on having it reinstated because there had been no contact with them. We thought the drama was over. In our state you have to have proof of a threat.

I don't know what you mean by "can I have a girlfriend stay over also".


----------



## jsmart

bigdogs said:


> She was upset about the remark. She was upset with me for letting him in the door. She asked me if I smelled alcohol on him. *She is not attracted to him. She says she never really was*. She said it was nice to have someone to talk to that was having similar marital problems to the ones were were having. He befriended her and I feel he was trying to seduce her while she was at her lowest, physically and mentally because of the surgeries and our financial issues. My stupidity nearly cost us our house. She trusted me to take care of things while she was healing and I lied and hid things from her. *I took our house payment monies and paid the rent for my businesses instead. She had no clue until the foreclosure notice came. * Then she just shut down on me. She told me we needed to go to counseling to figure things out. I refused so she just quit trying with our marriage, and I let her.
> 
> *My wife already has an order of protection against his wife. * Although it will expire at the end of this month. We were not planning on having it reinstated because there had been no contact with them. We thought the drama was over. In our state you have to have proof of a threat.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "can I have a girlfriend stay over also".


Please don't buy the I wasn't attracted to him story.
If they were having an EA heading toward PA, then she was attracted to him. 

It sounds like there were problems on both sides. Even if you were being neglectful of your duties as a husband, doesn't give her the right to look for comfort in the arms of another man.

Every time you add a little more info, I get more of a feeling that this was going on longer than you think and that it was physical.


----------



## cgiles

Decorum said:


> He sounds desperate and unstable. You will not be caught by surprise again.


That's what I feel. 


When we look to OM behavior: He came, ring, knowing there was both there and a guest, as their was three cars in front of the house, and then enter without being invited.

Then he asked "so it will be like that now ?" like if in his mind, after weeks of no contact, it would be different.

Sure OP must VARs his house before he leaves for his trip, but he must advice his wife to call cops if OM shows again, because he doesn't sound stable. 

He losts his home, wife, family, and affair partner, he would not be the first wayward to go "nuts" after D-day.


----------



## Sammiee

You sound like your blaming yourself for her affair.


----------



## turnera

synthetic said:


> You just avoided my question again.
> 
> What happened from 2 days ago when you were questioning your wife's sincerity in having no contact with that guy until now? You changed teams.
> 
> Now we are the ones questioning your wife and you are defending her, when you were the suspicious one that started this thread.


He started the thread asking what the GUY was doing. Not his wife.

Personally, to answer the original question, I think the OM showed up to gain a foothold in the old life he used to live. He trolled through a BUNCH of marriages, he no longer lives at home, he probably has NO friends left, and he's a jerk. So he's probably going around seeing who's weak enough to let him back into their lives without saying anything.


----------



## Sammiee

What is wife was doing might have direct bearing on what the guy was doing.


----------



## synthetic

It's very interesting that your wife got a protective order against the OM's wife while that guy feels entitled to enter your place 'expecting' to be treated well (and he gets it!) That tells me a lot more about the nature of the affair. 



> She's not attracted to him. Never was


BULLSH1T! She's attracted enough to get a protective order against that poor woman but not her fabulous husband who continues to threaten her marriage! Very naive of you to accept such an obvious lie.

At this point I'm convinced this was a lot more than a simple short EA. 

You've got the whole thing wrong sir.


----------



## Brandy905

When the story does not make sense, that is because it is not true. 
When you get the truth, it all will make sense.

I saw this earlier in this thread and couldn't agree more


----------



## turnera

OP, have you checked your wife's electronics to verify she's not in contact with him? You know that's essential, right?


----------



## bigdogs

synthetic said:


> It's very interesting that your wife got a protective order against the OM's wife while that guy feels entitled to enter your place 'expecting' to be treated well (and he gets it!) That tells me a lot more about the nature of the affair.
> 
> BULLSH1T! She's attracted enough to get a protective order against that poor woman but not her fabulous husband who continues to threaten her marriage! Very naive of you to accept such an obvious lie.
> 
> At this point I'm convinced this was a lot more than a simple short EA.
> 
> You've got the whole thing wrong sir.


In our state you have to have a valid reason or threat to get a protective order. His wife threatened my wife and our 17yr old. She threatened harm to our animals and harassed hervia phone calls and texts. She would have taken one out on him had he done any of the above. I was with her when she took out the order. She did what she could legally do.

I did my due diligence after the affair was uncovered. I had friends and family following my wife, I put a GPS tracker from my job on her vehicle. I searched phone records, I talked to her friends, there was nothing there that she didn't tell me about. From my investigation I have concluded that it was not a PA.


----------



## bigdogs

turnera said:


> OP, have you checked your wife's electronics to verify she's not in contact with him? You know that's essential, right?


I have total access to all of her accounts as she does mine also.


----------



## turnera

bigdogs said:


> I have total access to all of her accounts as she does mine also.


Not answering the question, so I'll ask again.

Are you checking her electronic transactions at least once a week for unusual contacts? And what are you finding?


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> I have total access to all of her accounts as she does mine also.


 Correction, you "have total access to all of her accounts" that you know of. If she has a low cost burner phone, visits your home with the dogs that he knows so well, or if she is texting him using a gaming app on her phone (such as Word with Friends), you would have no idea that it was happening.


----------



## bigdogs

TRy said:


> Correction, you "have total access to all of her accounts" that you know of. If she has a low cost burner phone, visits your home with the dogs that he knows so well, or if she is texting him using a gaming app on her phone (such as Word with Friends), you would have no idea that it was happening.


She does not have a burner phone, he has not visited my house prior to easter since before D-Day, my wife does not play games on her phone. I have access to her phone. No games are downloaded.


----------



## Chaparral

It sounds like you've done as much as you can to me. I would leave some well placed VARs around while I was gone simply to allay suspicions.


----------



## bigdogs

turnera said:


> Not answering the question, so I'll ask again.
> 
> Are you checking her electronic transactions at least once a week for unusual contacts? And what are you finding?


I checked all the time in the beginning. I just checked a couple of days ago and there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary on there. I trust her. It is him I have an issue with.


----------



## italianjob

bigdogs said:


> In our state you have to have a valid reason or threat to get a protective order. His wife threatened my wife and our 17yr old. She threatened harm to our animals and harassed hervia phone calls and texts. She would have taken one out on him had he done any of the above. I was with her when she took out the order. She did what she could legally do.
> 
> I did my due diligence after the affair was uncovered. I had friends and family following my wife, I put a GPS tracker from my job on her vehicle. I searched phone records, I talked to her friends, there was nothing there that she didn't tell me about. From my investigation I have concluded that it was not a PA.


Yeah, maybe the woman and her husband are both just nutcases, after all it would mean they were aptly matched, but it does sound like she really tought there was much much more to the affair...

You don't get that mad for a couple of weeks of texting (not even sexual)...

Also, you made it sound like your wife had been friend with this couple for quite sometime; how come she was so close to them and had (or considered having) an affair with the OM, and never found out they were so crazy?


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> In our state you have to have a valid reason or threat to get a protective order. His wife threatened my wife and our 17yr old. She threatened harm to our animals and harassed hervia phone calls and texts. She would have taken one out on him had he done any of the above. I was with her when she took out the order.


 When it comes to getting a protective order, the courts will error on the side of caution and require no hard evidence only a claim for them to issue a protective order. Your wife could say all of those things without proof in order to get the order. Your wife as a cheater loves this, because now the other man's wife is barred by the court from sharing information with you about the full extent of the affair. The bottom line is that the other man's wife is begin treated as the bad guy for being upset that your wife cheated with her husband, but the other man that cheated with your wife is not. You were "with her when she took out the order", and you were with her when the other man just walked into your home as if he owned the place and had a right to be with your wife. You seem to be always standing around doing nothing as you allow them to dictate the terms of your reality.


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> She does not have a burner phone, he has not visited my house prior to easter since before D-Day


 And you know this 100% for sure how? Never mind that they were able to have an affair right under your nose without you knowing about.


----------



## TRy

bigdogs said:


> I trust her. It is him I have an issue with.


 That is something that you might have been able to say before you caught her having an affair with this other man, but you saying it now after the affair that they had together just makes you sound foolish.


----------



## turnera

bigdogs said:


> I checked all the time in the beginning. I just checked a couple of days ago and there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary on there. I trust her. It is him I have an issue with.


Good. Then there's only one thing for you to do: go find him, and tell him man to man he is not welcome around your family again and if he tries to contact any of you, you'll deal with it legally. And let your wife know you did it, and confide in HER that you will also deal with it physically.


----------



## bigdogs

Chaparral said:


> It sounds like you've done as much as you can to me. I would leave some well placed VARs around while I was gone simply to allay suspicions.


 I feel that I have done as much as I can do. I do not have any suspicions of her to validate spending good money on a VAR. Where would I place it? My dogs are lovers. They would not have been snarling at him and barking with their hair on end if they knew him well.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Decorum said:


> If I get the story straight it seems like his wife left the room and came back with something to do so she could monitor the situation, but look non-involved.
> 
> Maybe she wanted to do damage control. She did not want to have to interact with him. It all seems weird because it is. It could be all him though.
> 
> Was he trying to force her to choose between the two of you?
> To put her in the position to deny him, or is it a longer game to get in her head.
> 
> If any of you remember Tears thread, her law enforcement husband wanted to meet the POSOM, (a mistake I think), the Pos looked right past her husband and asked "Anne I thought we were building something here, are you in agreement with this". He was acting like her husband was holding her hostage, Makes me mad just thinking about it.
> 
> He sounds desperate and unstable. You will not be caught by surprise again.


Hey Decorum. Unfortunately it is my story that you're thinking of. Yes my husband wanted to meet OM, yes he disrespected my husband to his face like that. 

Big dogs, as a FWW with an OM that still doesn't want to let go...please stand up for your home. Don't let the OM invade your space like that without suffering consequences. My husband STILL keeps an eye on his activities. I always watch my back.


----------



## bigdogs

italianjob said:


> Yeah, maybe the woman and her husband are both just nutcases, after all it would mean they were aptly matched, but it does sound like she really tought there was much much more to the affair...
> 
> You don't get that mad for a couple of weeks of texting (not even sexual)...
> 
> Also, you made it sound like your wife had been friend with this couple for quite sometime; how come she was so close to them and had (or considered having) an affair with the OM, and never found out they were so crazy?



The wife was very angry. Her husband had moved out of their house and into an apartment quite a while before the EA with my wife started. They were still working together. She started investigating why he would want to leave their nice house for a studio apartment and found out that he had been sleeping with many of her friends for years. Easy pickings when you know everything about someone to know how to seduce them. You can say all the right things.

When my wife told me she wanted to leave unless I agreed to counseling, she started talking to him about reasons for leaving and such (all of this is confirmed via copies of text messages his wife provided for me) things progressed to talking deeper about how unhappy they were ect..

They seem normal. They were not really close friends just acquaintances, who boarded their animals at the same place and had some of the same interests.


----------



## soccermom2three

CantePe said:


> I don't think he screwed up. I think OM was looking for a physical reaction from OP to file charges.
> 
> This OM is sneaky, he is someone you need to treat very cautiously.
> 
> I also think OPs wife isn't telling the whole truth either.


This is my take on it too. The op is a blackbelt (sorry I can't remember what degree) and does MMA. The guy was trying to egg him on to start something. The OP was smart not to take the bait.


----------



## bigdogs

soccermom2three said:


> This is my take on it too. The op is a blackbelt (sorry I can't remember what degree) and does MMA. The guy was trying to egg him on to start something. The OP was smart not to take the bait.


I am testing for 7th dan soon. I am to old to compete in MMA but I do teach and watch it.


----------



## thenub

It was nice having someone to talk to that was having marital problems.
Why not talk to his wife then???


----------



## BobSimmons

I really don't get what's the point in getting beat up so you can file charges.

With all due respect the OP doesn't come across as that sort of bloke.
Seeing as they were friends before if he knew OP kicked a** and took names later he might have not pursued the EA.

Having a personal relationship with the betrayed often makes the betrayal that more extreme, it's a little easier when the OM doesnt know the husband.

The man now gets a perverse ego trip by doing what he did. I'm fearless, I can walk into his house, pat his dogs, make the woman he tried to get with react, then leave. And guess what? How many days afterwards, he's still in the OP's house and even worse, in his head.

Game set and match. Job done. Far more effective than getting cops involved.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

The OM has an 8th degree in being a POS! :rofl:



BobSimmons said:


> I really don't get what's the point in getting beat up so you can file charges.
> 
> With all due respect the OP doesn't come across as that sort of bloke.
> Seeing as they were friends before if he knew OP kicked a** and took names later he might have not pursued the EA.
> 
> Having a personal relationship with the betrayed often makes the betrayal that more extreme, it's a little easier when the OM doesnt know the husband.
> 
> The man now gets a perverse ego trip by doing what he did. I'm fearless, I can walk into his house, pat his dogs, make the woman he tried to get with react, then leave. And guess what? How many days afterwards, he's still in the OP's house and even worse, in his head.
> 
> Game set and match. Job done. Far more effective than getting cops involved.


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> My stupidity nearly cost us our house. She trusted me to take care of things while she was healing and I lied and hid things from her. I took our house payment monies and paid the rent for my businesses instead. She had no clue until the foreclosure notice came. Then she just shut down on me. She told me we needed to go to counseling to figure things out. I refused so she just quit trying with our marriage, and I let her.



Bigdogs, correct me if I'm wrong but there is more to this story.... much more?


----------



## bigdogs

What do you mean Adriana?


----------



## ThePheonix

Whatever happened between your wife and this guy is water under the bridge. It seems that more to the story means this cat didn't just wonder onto your porch and into your house. It seems pretty premeditated on his part. The belief is that one or both got more interested than just casual talk about common marital problems and flirtation, and the impromptu visit was the aftermath. Its unlikely he wondered up not expecting you to be there given it was Easter Sunday and the cars were in the driveway.
You have to admit that initially you were somewhat concerned about possible continued contact between these two; or at least that's the way it appeared. 
Just don't be that the guy, home on sick leave, yelling in the phone, "this is not the damn weather service". When his wife asked what that was all about, he said some azzhole called wanting to know if the coast is clear.  Hey its old but still funny.


----------



## NotLikeYou

I don't actually have any useful advice. This thread is a really sad situation.

But it did remind me of a joke, which will hopefully cheer some people who read it up.



A guy is driving around the back woods and he sees a sign in front of a broken down, shanty-style house: "Talking Dog For Sale." He rings the bell and the owner appears and tells him the dog is in the backyard.

The guy goes into the backyard and sees a nice looking Labrador retriever sitting there.
"You talk?" he asks.
"Yep," the Lab replies.

After the guy recovers from the shock of hearing a dog talk, he says "So, what's your story?"

The Lab looks up and says, "Well, I discovered that I could talk when I was pretty young. I wanted to help the government, so I told the CIA. In no time at all they had me jetting from country to country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one figured a dog would be eavesdropping.

"I was one of their most valuable spies for eight years running. But the jetting around really tired me out, and I knew I wasn't getting any younger so I decided to settle down. I signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security, wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I uncovered some incredible dealings and was awarded a batch of medals.

"I got married, had a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired."

The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog.

"Ten dollars," the guy says.
"Ten dollars? This dog is amazing! Why on earth are you selling him so cheap??"


"Because the dog's a damn liar. He never did any of that ****."


----------



## DoneWithHurting

Dog, how does this sound to you?
You are in a rollercoaster of respect with your wife.
When you had ur financial problems, she lost that respect for you and confided in this POS.
You've regained lost ground when you stood up to her EA.
So this POS is hitting all the married women in the area and knows you are a pvssy from what your wife told him at her lowest point of disrespect for you.
Now that you have regained ground, this POS kicked you back down a few pegs in your wife's eyes with his shenanigans.

You have to do something to regain her respect or she will once again become vulnerable to his advances. He won't stop.

You leaving town is a problem but from what you say, you've shored up your defenses. 

The only advice for you my friend is to focus on upping her respect even more. How? That's up to you to figure out. Its like insurance, money in the bank, a special technique you know that will always work in the end... kind of like Daniel san's crane kick.


----------



## syhoybenden

bigdogs said:


> I feel that I have done as much as I can do. I do not have any suspicions of her to validate spending good money on a VAR.




50 bucks aint gonna break the bank. Cheap at twice the price.


----------



## helolover

Noble1 said:


> Like it was mentioned, it seems like your wife was almost putting you down.
> 
> Now we don't know the "context" or tone of the 'bolded' part, but it does seem like the OM is stepping up to take back some territory.
> 
> Hope it works out for you.
> 
> Good luck.


Be careful here. Is your wife that much of a prize? Didn't she get involved in an affair behind your back with this d-bag? Is this part of her "Let's you and him fight" scenario over her? Who is validated in the end - your cheating wife? She can't lose here. She is being fought over. And for what?


----------



## Chaparral

How often do you leave town?

Do you drive or fly? In other words, when you have to leave town is your car still in the driveway?

What about the affair let you know how serious it was? It sounds like you believe it was only a couple of weeks. You cut her off for four months and couldn't even look at her. Now you are totally standing behind her. The OM shows up at the door. Realistically, none of this adds up.


----------



## bigdogs

I leave town about once a year in July. She drops me off and picks me up then. This trip is different. Normally national qualifiers are in the same state. This year I have to go about 8 hours away. 

My wife a a good person. Probably one of the best I know. She made a mistake. It took me four months to talk to her because I am stubborn, it took me that long to figure out fact from fiction to determine what actually when on between them.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

bigdogs said:


> It took me four months to talk to her because I am stubborn, it took me that long to figure out fact from fiction to determine what actually when on between them.


Well, something is still going on because he wouldn't have shown up at your place. Still energy between them... perhaps one way, but its still there


----------



## TRy

thenub said:


> It was nice having someone to talk to that was having marital problems.
> Why not talk to his wife then???


 That is a great point. When the OP's wife states that she started getting more involved with the other man because it was nice having someone to talk to that was having marital problems, why didn't she talk to the other man's wife about it instead of the other man? The other man's wife was having marital problems too. Add in the fact that the other man was a serial cheater, and the question as to why she was in effect taking other man's side by talking to other man instead of to the other man's wife becomes an even bigger question. It is obvious that the OP's wife saw the other man as no longer taken and in play, and knew that if she told the other man about her own marital issues, that she would be in effect telling him that she was in play to. The OP's wife was looking to have an affair with the other man.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bigdogs said:


> I feel that I have done as much as I can do. *I do not have any suspicions of her to validate spending good money on a VAR.* Where would I place it? My dogs are lovers. They would not have been snarling at him and barking with their hair on end if they knew him well.


Because the truth will set you free(one way, or another).

They had a much closer relationship then you will let yourself realize they were having.

If you truly didn't have "any suspicions of her", why did you post in the "Coping With Infidelity" section?...

Your words say one thing, but your actions say another... Just like your wife was when she was having this EA.

There's a good reason why you started posting here. You can only fool yourself for so long. You do have suspicions. You do think that there are things you've yet to learn about this.

Even your wife is surprised at how laid back you're taking all this. Especially when the OM walked right into your home. When she got up to do laundry I'm guessing that she fully expected to hear a scuffle in the kitchen.

She was shocked when the OM walked in. I think she was just as shocked when you didn't at least tell him to leave.


----------



## synthetic

I can easily see the next thread the OP will open:

*"Not sure how I got here, but here I am..."*

blah blah blah...she says they only did it twice....blah blah blah....I don't know what to believe anymore....blah blah blah... she could be telling the truth....blah blah blah...I love her...


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> What do you mean Adriana?



That you aren't telling us everything.... there is more to this story. Much more.

Bigdogs, she did what she did but you should buy her a dozen of beautiful roses and thank her that she is gracious enough to even consider giving you a second chance. I know that I wouldn't be so forgiving if I were her.


----------



## jsmart

synthetic said:


> I can easily see the next thread the OP will open:
> 
> *"Not sure how I got here, but here I am..."*
> 
> blah blah blah...she says they only did it twice....blah blah blah....I don't know what to believe anymore....blah blah blah... she could be telling the truth....blah blah blah...I love her...


BH's gut was screaming so much that he signed up to talk to strangers on an infidelity board hoping to get some reassurance that it was not that bad. Hoping that we agreed with his mind's excuses for the red flags. 

After you've been reading on here for a while, it's so easy to spot the signs and see through the lies. Practically every time a guy post here because of a feeling in his gut it turns out there was something going on. 

OP needs to understand that appeasers get lies, half truths, and end up getting destroyed and those who take hard actions have a WW all of sudden coming around wanting to salvage the relationship.

Woman only respond to strength. This POS sure did put up quite an impressive show. OP needs to counter even stronger.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Bigdogs- I asked at least once if not twice before- have you had any contact with any of the other friends that this man pursued? Is he still in contact or trying to initiate contact with any of them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigdogs

I don't know who the other women are to talk to them. I am probably making more if this then I should. We are in a good place especially since the marriage retreat. I was just trying to figure out his motives for showing up. Truth probably is that he was drunk and stupid. 

What I did financially was more than little. I almost cost us our house. Foreclosure is a big deal.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Good luck man- hope everything works out for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oneMOreguy

I'll jump into here with a different take.......the guy may very well feel that since there was no physical affair, that it might be possible to re-enter her life as a "friend" since it is clear that he enjoys being around her, communicating, etc....even tho it is also clear clear that parts of their "friendship" were not appropriate. Not saying you should allow it, just pointing out that it may be his mindset......and that you should not view him showing up to mean your wife has not told you the truth.

I say this as a guy with an inappropriate friendship, but have actually re entered the life of my young lady friend, along with her hubby/friend of mine also, and a bunch of new babies of theirs. We also have much tighter boundaries about how we behave and talk. Keeps us on the straight and narrow. But my inappropriate friendship started with me truly caring about, and trying to help this young couple going thru some tough times.

If this guy really was never a true friend, or really cared about either of you, then I would suggest one tight boundary......him not making it past the edge of your property.


----------



## NoChoice

oneMOreguy said:


> I'll jump into here with a different take.......the guy may very well feel that since there was no physical affair, that it might be possible to re-enter her life as a "friend" since it is clear that he enjoys being around her, communicating, etc....even tho it is also clear clear that parts of their "friendship" were not appropriate. Not saying you should allow it, just pointing out that it may be his mindset......and that you should not view him showing up to mean your wife has not told you the truth.


OP,
I was thinking along these lines also. In fact, I thought that when the OM made the comment "so this is how it's going to be" as he was leaving was his way of expressing that just because he and your wife "confided" in one another during a period of mutual marital strife, that he perceived that the friendship was now over. It is at least plausible.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you or your wife know before her affair that the OM had cheated on his wife or flirted with other women?


----------



## bigdogs

No we did not know about his fooling around. He seemed like a nice guy. Hr did have a flirty personality around all women though. I noticed that. He always seemed to know the right thing to say.


----------



## Chaparral

If you read a lot of threads here you will see many women that fall for players that they know are players. I believe your wife was attracted to him because of this. They know what they're dealing with but they think it will be different for them.


----------



## jsmart

MarriedGuy221 said:


> *Part if the excitement ironically is in being chosen by a player - who has had many women and therefore is desirable... and the women are flattered that among all the women they have been picked. It is there opportunity to "win" the prize.*
> 
> Ironic because many of these guy lay out a lot of traps and just go from trap to trap till one is full and then they have their fun with the prey until they are done and toss then aside to look at the rest if the traps.
> 
> Hardly "chosen" - just tailored to the trap. Can be emotional, physical, job-related, family-related, etc. lots of different bait for different prey.
> 
> In spite of this it must be hard not to emotionally believe that just this once he REALLY relates to you and is talking seriously and not just laying out bait.
> 
> But oh well, most of us guys and a good many women know the truth and yet the hunting goes on unabated in frint if our eyes, and these guys are the first to brag after a beer or two in a guys setting.
> 
> OP - if this guy had any if these traits, then I know you realize what I am saying us true. And if you think he won't keep instinctively tossing bait at your wife - a look or glance, comment, even just being in places at certain times - you're wrong - I've NEVER known one if these guys who knew how to turn it off. He already know what bait your wife needs - in a few contacts he already tailored it. And these guys move FAST once the bait is identified. They know how to close (read Zig Ziggler on closing sales - there are proven techniques). So they DON'T operate like you and me - they can close in a few contacts because they never consider the prey's feelings - only vulnerabilities.
> 
> So OP don't you also be taken in - once a woman has been hooked, even though your wife is devoted to you now - she had heard things that emotionally resonated with her and she believes they were honest - so only a brief encounter will access those emotions.
> 
> If you don't believe me, I dare you to ask her a question about the near foreclosure debacle - a question that is focused on the time of her emotionally most difficult time. I GUARANTEE as she recalls the incident a nice package of emotion will be folded in and she will get a flash of anger or resentment in her eyes.
> 
> Of course you'd be a fool to trigger her anger and resentment now unless you know NORTHING about emotions.
> 
> NOW consider ANY comment, appearance, glances from the OM. SAME reaction. For him, the good part is he is associated with both the good fantasy solution feelings toward him AND the resentment and anger feelings for you pushing her away.
> 
> Very very dangerous and devious. NOT logical - which is why people will gamble their entire marriage on a fantasy that is objectively foolish.
> 
> Good luck.


OP thinks that his wife thinks like him. OP can see that POS is up to something but believes his wife will see it too and be self controlled and stop it. But master manipulators know that woman don't think like men. A woman will see the manipulation and still find it exciting and still go along with it. They play ignorance while going along for the ride and at the end will say the most infamous word woman say all the time, "I don't know why, it just happened."


----------



## jsmart

Chaparral said:


> If you read a lot of threads here you will see many women that fall for players that they know are players. I believe your wife was attracted to him because of this. They know what they're dealing with but they think it will be different for them.


That's why I don't understand OP's lack of concern. Woman are more emotional then men. The smoothness of guys with player type personalities is very exciting to them. The playful banter gives them an emotional connection. The BH can do everything right and he's still at a disadvantage compared to exciting new guy.


----------



## ThePheonix

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Part if the excitement ironically is in being chosen by a player - who has had many women and therefore is desirable... and the women are flattered that among all the women they have been picked.


Exactly. Although it seem a complicated art, its really simple. Two things that will draw a woman's attention; being appreciated and treated special. Men in a long term relationship often become to distracted to continuously add these essential ingredients. Like public speaking or sales, the "predator" makes the time and the guts to deliver. 
Bigdog, one thing that's staring you in the face is the impromptu appearance could be interrupted by your wife that she is so important he's willing to go to the trouble and even put himself at risk to see her. The balls in your court my man but I've found it best to take a couple of precautions than to later wish you had.


----------



## bigdogs

ThePheonix said:


> Exactly. Although it seem a complicated art, its really simple. Two things that will draw a woman's attention; being appreciated and treated special. Men in a long term relationship often become to distracted to continuously add these essential ingredients. Like public speaking or sales, the "predator" makes the time and the guts to deliver.
> Bigdog, one thing that's staring you in the face is the impromptu appearance could be interrupted by your wife that she is so important he's willing to go to the trouble and even put himself at risk to see her. The balls in your court my man but I've found it best to take a couple of precautions than to later wish you had.


Knowing where my wife was at the time the EA happened, I can see how his line was easy for her to fall for. Our marriage was falling apart, she was sick and recovering from multiple surgeries and alone. I left her alone all the time because I didn't like to see her in pain and hurting. I am not taking responsibility for what happened just saying that when she needed me the most I was not there for her. I will never know what could have happened if just one of the times she told me that we were in trouble and needed help if I had listened to her and done something about it.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Two things that will draw a woman's attention; being appreciated and treated special. Men in a long term relationship often become to distracted to continuously add these essential ingredients."

I agree...but I think taking your partner for granted after years together is something BOTH sexes do.

I told a cousin once, who was complaining about her H not spending enough time with her, that she really needed to wake up.

Yeah, he put in a lot of hours, but that was mainly due to the fact he was busting his a** trying to earn money to buy or do the things SHE wanted, as she was constantly telling him.

I said she had a right to discuss with him her feelings of being unappreciated, but not to be surprised if he came back by saying that all he felt like to her was a paycheck and part time baby sitter so she could go shopping with her girlfriends.

I could tell by her reaction that she was only seeing things from her own perspective.....she thanked me and said I had helped her to really open her eyes that she was doing the same to him that she was complaining about.

Luckily, though both had sort of detached and taken the other for granted for awhile in their M, there was no infidelity and they were able to reconnect and improve their M.

They are very happy today.

The lesson is that both men and women in LTR's tend to take the things their spouse brings to the M for granted after many years together.

It's sorta a "What have you done for me lately?" type of mentality.


----------



## bigdogs

So I decided to follow advice and get a VAR for her car. I am leaving for my trip on Thursday. So I thought I put it in a place that it would not be discovered. I was wrong. She got off work early today and decided to take her car through the car-wash. She found it when she was vacuuming. Needless to say **** is hitting the fan. I am glad I get to leave for a bit give her a chance to calm down. Yipes! I don't even know why I did it I know that I can trust her.


----------



## BobSimmons

Why would she hit the fan? You both use the car, you can make an excuse as to why you bought it and say it must have slipped out your bag under the seat.


----------



## bigdogs

We both don't use the car. I would have no reason to buy one although spending $70 without asking her is going to be an issue when she checks the account. I am an idiot.


----------



## bigdogs

She is angry because she has done nothing wrong. She said we promised to be open and honest with each other, and not hide things. No sneaking around. That if I was feeling that insecure I should have talked t. Her about it. She has a point.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

bigdogs said:


> So I decided to follow advice and get a VAR for her car. I am leaving for my trip on Thursday. So I thought I put it in a place that it would not be discovered. I was wrong. She got off work early today and decided to take her car through the car-wash. She found it when she was vacuuming. Needless to say **** is hitting the fan. I am glad I get to leave for a bit give her a chance to calm down. Yipes! I don't even know why I did it I know that I can trust her.


If she was my wife, I'd tell her to stick her anger up her ass and to go fvck herself. When her g-damn AP decides to come into your home and piss all over you, you have every fvcking right to figure out if she can be trusted. WTF is wrong with you?


----------



## G.J.

She has an EA and admits it could have gone further, POS comes round your house then she starts to get angry because your checking

Get down the gym and pump some weights fot added testostorone


----------



## Dogbert

bigdogs said:


> She is angry because she has done nothing wrong. She said we promised to be open and honest with each other, and not hide things. No sneaking around. That if I was feeling that insecure I should have talked t. Her about it. She has a point.


If your wife is serious about protecting her marriage, then insist that she take the initiative and contact the OMW and tell her to keep her husband away from her or she's going to get a restraining order against him. Only then can she say that she is fighting for the marriage.

Ask her if the roles were reversed, would she expect you to sit on you a$$ and do absolutely nothing about the OW barging into your home with the pretense of wanting to be "friends" again?


----------



## kristin2349

She did do something wrong and it is obvious you don't trust her despite your ongoing backpedaling defense of her in this thread.

It was less than smart to put a VAR in her car poorly hidden. You are going to be away since the OM is so comfortable in your home you would have been better off putting it under the bed. But she's on to you now. I guess you'll have to stay perpetually confused about what to make of this...


----------



## soccermom2three

I think his biggest mistake was posting on CWI.


----------



## bigdogs

Under the bed so I can hear my dogs barking Everytime the wind makes the shop light come on. We have a kid in the house. Even if she was going to see him she would not bring him here.


----------



## Dogbert

soccermom2three said:


> I think his biggest mistake was posting on CWI.


No he did not.

From his first post,



bigdogs said:


> *My wife had an emotional affair with a friend.* I found out from his wife over 6 months ago.


Perhaps members who disrespect the CWI forum should they themselves reconsider posting somewhere else.


----------



## soccermom2three

You totally missed my point.


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> Knowing where my wife was at the time the EA happened, I can see how his line was easy for her to fall for. Our marriage was falling apart, she was sick and recovering from multiple surgeries and alone. I left her alone all the time because I didn't like to see her in pain and hurting. I am not taking responsibility for what happened just saying that when she needed me the most I was not there for her. I will never know what could have happened if just one of the times she told me that we were in trouble and needed help if I had listened to her and done something about it.



But you are still not telling us what you have done later.... after her EA.


----------



## synthetic

Man...you had one job!

If you hadn't been so eager to defend your wife's cheating and dishonesty, we could've told you how to place the VAR so you wouldn't get caught, but...oh well...

Time to be honest bigdogs. Despite defending your wife, you clearly don't trust her and for very good reasons too.

If you're sick of playing this game, then turn the table. Become more aware of your situation and be more assertive. Don't be so passive in front of your wife and definitely deliver a heavy blow to the other guy. Not next time, but NOW.

You keep losing ground because you're not taking firm steps. Can't have it both ways man. You can't take one step forward and two backward. That's what you're doing right now.

Your wife can't be all that attracted to you with all this passive sh1t you've been exercising around her. That's for damn sure. But hey, she's a dishonest cheater herself, so it's not like you're losing out on much of a prize anyway. Remember that.


----------



## bigdogs

I did have one job. That was to honor the promise that we made to each other over two months ago. Sneaking around and hiding things from her. How is that any different from what she did? I don't defend what she did. I defend what I see she has become. She does not think I am weak because I didn't beat him to a pulp. I think it may have even brought us closer together. We are having sex twice a week instead of once, we are talking more. 

I think I have learned my lesson after a night at my mom's. She asked me to stay elsewhere. Don't want to be there two nights in a row gotta make it right.


----------



## jsmart

synthetic said:


> Man...*you had one job!*
> 
> If you hadn't been so eager to defend your wife's cheating and dishonesty, we could've told you how to place the VAR so you wouldn't get caught, but...oh well...
> 
> Time to be honest bigdogs. Despite defending your wife, you clearly don't trust her and for very good reasons too.
> 
> *If you're sick of playing this game, then turn the table. Become more aware of your situation and be more assertive. Don't be so passive in front of your wife and definitely deliver a heavy blow to the other guy. Not next time, but NOW.*
> 
> You keep losing ground because you're not taking firm steps. Can't have it both ways man. You can't take one step forward and two backward. That's what you're doing right now.
> 
> *Your wife can't be all that attracted to you with all this passive sh1t you've been exercising around her. * That's for damn sure. But hey, she's a dishonest cheater herself, so it's not like you're losing out on much of a prize anyway. Remember that.


OP's action to correct his issues are easily visible.
He's spending time with WW and he's obviously taking care of finances. Now what she has done to fix things take more effort to prove. OP would be derelict of his duties, if he didn't check things after POSOM showing up at their house.

The problem is OPs performance. First he avoids douche at lumber store, then he lets POSOM waltz into his house, and now lastly makes a pathetic attempt at monitoring. His WW must be completely turned off by BH lack of pride. Then combined with getting busted trying to monitor....

The times that I've read of WW getting busted by a VAR, the BH did it from a position of strength, by filing and doing a 180, all of the sudden the woman is fighting for her marriage because she is seeing a strong man. But in OPs case, all his WW is seeing is weakness and ineptness.


----------



## MattMatt

Defending a spouse, even a cheating spouse, is natural.

Please don't jump on people for doing this. It doesn't help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aine

bigdogs said:


> I did have one job. That was to honor the promise that we made to each other over two months ago. Sneaking around and hiding things from her. How is that any different from what she did? I don't defend what she did. I defend what I see she has become. She does not think I am weak because I didn't beat him to a pulp. I think it may have even brought us closer together. We are having sex twice a week instead of once, we are talking more.
> 
> I think I have learned my lesson after a night at my mom's. She asked me to stay elsewhere. Don't want to be there two nights in a row gotta make it right.


I was reading this thread, got too long skipped to the end and now I am confused. Who is the guilty party here? Why are you sleeping away from your house, something is wrong with this picture. Your wife engaged in an EA and you are the one doing the boot licking? I think you need to get things in perspective and be a man whom your wife can respect.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

bigdogs said:


> My wife had an emotional affair with a friend. I found out from his wife over 6 months ago. Things were really rough in the beginning but things seem to be back on track now. On Easter Sunday we were sitting on the couch with her father watching opening night baseball and the door bell rings. I answer it and in walks the other man. He started making small talk and petting our dogs. The dogs were barking like mad and he said something about I know that it has been a few weeks since you seen me, but you know me. It has been over six months. I didn't say a word to him. I think that I was in shock. I just stared straight ahead at the tv. He talked to my FIL.; My wife looked ill and walked out of the room into the laundry room and came back with a load of clothes to fold. He stated oh I see you are putting me to work folding already. Still I say nothing. My FIL leaves, and my wife stands up and says we were just on own way to bed too. he stated oh so that is how this is going to be and said see you around and left.
> 
> We went to bed and I told her I was concerned about what his motives were for coming over. She said she had no clue. That she had not seen, heard from, looked for, spoke to for over six months and had no desire to. She said why did you even let him in the door. I said I didn't invite him in I just answered the door and he walked in.
> 
> I don't know why he came over. What did he want? Is he crazy? Who does that?



I guess its not all that strange that you where taken aback by it, but next time live up to your handle and send him packing. 

My read on this is he specifically went over there to mess with your head, maybe just because he could. He could be holding on to his side of the affair, or maybe this is his bizarre way to try to force the friendship back to being normal. I'd be proactive and tell him to stay the hell away now but that is just me.


----------



## soccermom2three

The guy wanted to screw with your marriage and it worked. In addition to that,, you posted here, where a cheater can never be redeemed, so the posts tend to make the OP paranoid.


----------



## adriana

aine said:


> I was reading this thread, got too long skipped to the end and now I am confused. *Who is the guilty party here?*



The short answer to your question.... he is.

The OP's wife had a short EA which was a reaction to his financial infidelity and emotional unavailability. What he did later was worse than her EA but there isn't even a remote chance that he's going to reveal it here. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to have enough self-respect to divorce him and move on. 




aine said:


> I think you need to get things in perspective and *be a man whom your wife can respect.*



I'm afraid it's too late for this. Her lack of emotional strength to divorce him is one thing but respecting him as a man is another. And frankly.... he just doesn't deserve it.


----------



## bigdogs

jsmart said:


> OP's action to correct his issues are easily visible.
> He's spending time with WW and he's obviously taking care of finances. Now what she has done to fix things take more effort to prove. OP would be derelict of his duties, if he didn't check things after POSOM showing up at their house.
> 
> The problem is OPs performance. First he avoids douche at lumber store, then he lets POSOM waltz into his house, and now lastly makes a pathetic attempt at monitoring. His WW must be completely turned off by BH lack of pride. Then combined with getting busted trying to monitor....
> 
> The times that I've read of WW getting busted by a VAR, the BH did it from a position of strength, by filing and doing a 180, all of the sudden the woman is fighting for her marriage because she is seeing a strong man. But in OPs case, all his WW is seeing is weakness and ineptness.


What has she done to fix things. She has attended IC for the last almost 7 months now. In the beginning it was twice a week. For the last two months we attend Marriage counseling together every other week and attended a Retrovoullie weekend. When I seen all the changes that she was making I was really worried that I would lose her because she would realize she could do better. This is what prompted me to make the changes. I am not any better with the money. I have turned over all reigns to the finances to her. I get an allowance.


----------



## bigdogs

adriana said:


> The short answer to your question.... he is.
> 
> The OP's wife had a short EA which was a reaction to his financial infidelity and emotional unavailability. What he did later was worse than her EA but there isn't even a remote chance that he's going to reveal it here. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to have enough self-respect to divorce him and move on.
> 
> 
> I'm afraid it's too late for this. Her lack of emotional strength to divorce him is one thing but respecting him as a man is another. And frankly.... he just doesn't deserve it.


What to you mean? I would be willing to admit it but I don't know what you are referring to. I did many things that I am not proud of after I found out.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Some people believe the betrayed had to do something awful because people don't just have affairs.

You just have to sift through what you need and hope for the best. That said, you need a new MC. Sorry, already telling you to bring a kid into this situation for fairness is ridiculous.


----------



## bigdogs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Some people believe the betrayed had to do something awful because people don't just have affairs.
> 
> You just have to sift through what you need and hope for the best. That said, you need a new MC. Sorry, already telling you to bring a kid into this situation for fairness is ridiculous.



Our marriage counselor is very good. what do you mean telling me to bring a kid into the situation. I didn't sleep well last night so maybe I am confused.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry, that last pregnancy part was for another thread.


----------



## Dyokemm

Adriana,

Do you have some information that the rest of us don't?

I have no idea what you are referring to here.

You may be confusing threads possibly.....because if you are just assuming he MUST have done something to create this mess, then I think you are dead wrong.

There is NOTHING that justifies an A.....unless this is an RA (which I personally have no problems with, though many disagree).

But I haven't read anything from OP about an A of his own, so unless you have some type of inside info we don't, I disagree with you completely.


----------



## bigdogs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, that last pregnancy part was for another thread.


Thank God. At 53 I don't want a baby.


----------



## kristin2349

Dyokemm said:


> Adriana,
> 
> Do you have some information that the rest of us don't?
> 
> I have no idea what you are referring to here.
> 
> You may be confusing threads possibly.....because if you are just assuming he MUST have done something to create this mess, then I think you are dead wrong.
> 
> There is NOTHING that justifies an A.....unless this is an RA (which I personally have no problems with, though many disagree).
> 
> But I haven't read anything from OP about an A of his own, so unless you have some type of inside info we don't, I disagree with you completely.



Adrianna is sharp as a tack. I don't think she is confusing threads.

She is a BS and she knows nothing justifies an affair.

It does seem like she knows BigDogs or his story, but shes not filling in the blanks.


----------



## turnera

bigdogs said:


> What to you mean? I would be willing to admit it but I don't know what you are referring to. I did many things that I am not proud of after I found out.


Like what?


----------



## Chaparral

The mmslp book you've been advised to read is all about regaining the respect of your wife.

Her ex boyfriend came over. The logical conclusion would be the affair isn't over and went underground. No matter what she says now, she has proven she can lie to your face.

Verifying a cheater has quit cheating is one of two ways to handle adultery. The other way is divorce.

Your wife is totally mistaken if she thinks you will trust her before several years have passed. That's just the way life works.


----------



## bigdogs

Chaparral said:


> The mmslp book you've been advised to read is all about regaining the respect of your wife.
> 
> Her ex boyfriend came over. The logical conclusion would be the affair isn't over and went underground. No matter what she says now, she has proven she can lie to your face.
> 
> Verifying a cheater has quit cheating is one of two ways to handle adultery. The other way is divorce.
> 
> Your wife is totally mistaken if she thinks you will trust her before several years have passed. That's just the way life works.



The affair did not go underground. She has not lied to my face.

We have read "Not Just Friends" We read it together. As well as 7 Principles for a Good Marriage. The 5 love languages book.


----------



## kristin2349

You aren't making a whole lot of sense then BigDogs. Why in the world did you put a VAR in her car? 

Your words of defense do not match your actions.


----------



## Chaparral

bigdogs said:


> The affair did not go underground. She has not lied to my face.


So you knew the whole time she was having an affair? By definition an affair includes hiding and lying about it. In other words, she was lying and cheating and says it would have ended up physical.

I didn't say it did go underground, I said the right response was to make sure it hadn't gone underground because that's what usually happens.


----------



## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> You aren't making a whole lot of sense then BigDogs. Why in the world did you put a VAR in her car?
> 
> Your words of defense do not match your actions.


I put a VAR in her car because some of the posts on here were starting to make me paranoid. I am human. I allowed a little doubt to creep in.


----------



## bigdogs

Chaparral said:


> So you knew the whole time she was having an affair? By definition an affair includes hiding and lying about it. In other words, she was lying and cheating and says it would have ended up physical.
> 
> I didn't say it did go underground, I said the right response was to make sure it hadn't gone underground because that's what usually happens.


I knew the whole time she was talking to him, that she was talking to him. She didn't lie when I asked her who she was texting or visiting with. There was many times that I actually encouraged spending time together because I was to busy to help her with manly tasks. She admitted to me freely after D-day that she was developing strong feeling for him and was looking at pursuing more.


----------



## italianjob

bigdogs said:


> I knew the whole time she was talking to him, that she was talking to him. She didn't lie when I asked her who *she was* texting or *visiting with*. There was many times that I actually encouraged *spending time together *because I was to busy to help her with manly tasks. She admitted to me freely after D-day that she was developing strong feeling for him and was looking at pursuing more.


Wait, wait, wait...
You only told us about texting. So she was visiting him while he was living on his own, separated from his wife? And they spent time together alone?
And you stated that you are sure this was just a two weeks EA because.... ?????
I'm afraid you've been deep in denial for months. The episode you described in the beginning is making quite more sense now...


----------



## ThePheonix

bigdogs said:


> I did have one job. That was to honor the promise that we made to each other over two months ago.





bigdogs said:


> I put a VAR in her car because some of the posts on here were starting to make me paranoid. I am human. I allowed a little doubt to creep in.


Bigdog, I don't think you're quite as convinced that everything is as clean as you would have us believe and other people are putting these doubts in your head. Hence, from page one.



bigdogs said:


> The whole thing is just making me rethink everything that I thought I knew. Has she been in contact with him. Is she hiding things from me?


----------



## bigdogs

italianjob said:


> Wait, wait, wait...
> You only told us about texting. So she was visiting him while he was living on his own, separated from his wife? And they spent time together alone?
> And you stated that you are sure this was just a two weeks EA because.... ?????
> I'm afraid you've been deep in denial for months. The episode you described in the beginning is making quite more sense now...


She used to visit him and his wife at their place of work. She volunteered there on the weekends. Their animals were also boarded at the same place as hers. If a fence needed fixed or she needed help with stacking hay, I told her to ask them as I was to busy.


----------



## bigdogs

ThePheonix said:


> Bigdog, I don't think you're quite as convinced that everything is as clean as you would have us believe and other people are putting these doubts in your head. Hence, from page one.


 I had a moment of doubt. I admitted it. Once we talked about it my doubt in her diminished but I still wanted to know what would make a man come to the house of someone he had an affair with and act like nothing had happened.


----------



## Tobyboy

Does the OM knows that she was developing strong feelings for him and she wanted to pursue more?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## italianjob

bigdogs said:


> She used to visit him and his wife at their place of work. She volunteered there on the weekends. Their animals were also boarded at the same place as hers. If a fence needed fixed or she needed help with stacking hay, I told her to ask them as I was to busy.


I'm a little confused about the timeline, wasn't she texting him at a time he was already separated from his wife? Did I get that wrong? Was she still visiting when they were separated. So the OM did come to your house, didn't he?
With that amount of time they could physically see each other, how can you think their affair was limited to texting? Especially since the reaction of OMW seems to indicate she tought it was far more than an EA.
Is it possible that you didn't go all the way with your investigation "in exchange" for her forgetting about your financial mess up? Because I think it sounds like that...


----------



## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE

Bigdogs - 
I understand not throwing the guy out, but do you?
Is it possible that you wanted to see her reaction when this guy came over?
I know I would have. Far more important than getting into a physical altercation with this guy.
Besides you wanted her to choose and you wanted to make sure that she had chosen you.
Behind all of that martial arts training is the idea that usually it is not worth fighting.
Would I fight for my wife if I was not sure that she was really mine heart and soul? This is what you truly want to know.
You have your doubts and I would too. The real question is do you have the mental fortitude to find out?
It is one thing to enter the ring and take a few hits. Those will heal quickly enough but do you have the capacity to take this kind of truth?
Me personally I would find out. Your wife has given you enough reasons not to believe her, but she has also given you reasons that she may be telling the truth.
Do the work without her knowing and find out what is true and what is not.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Wow, I owe Adriana a minor apology. She had it right, he was holding something back. As it trickles out, his fault was in encouraging his wife to visit and solve problems with another man. You said help with chores around your house.

People can't help if you are going to leave out very important parts of your story.


----------



## synthetic

Adriana said:


> What he did later was worse than her EA but there isn't even a remote chance that he's going to reveal it here. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to have enough self-respect to divorce him and move on.


Please explain this so we don't waste our time on this any more.

What has bigdogs done after his wife's EA that he's not willing to admit? 

You started it, you need to elaborate.


----------



## soccermom2three

Chaparral said:


> T
> Her ex boyfriend came over. The logical conclusion would be the affair isn't over and went underground. No matter what she says now, she has proven she can lie to your face.


I don't think it's logical at all. I think it's paranoia. The logical conclusion is that the OM is a crazy a-hole.


----------



## bigdogs

italianjob said:


> I'm a little confused about the timeline, wasn't she texting him at a time he was already separated from his wife? Did I get that wrong? Was she still visiting when they were separated. So the OM did come to your house, didn't he?
> With that amount of time they could physically see each other, how can you think their affair was limited to texting? Especially since the reaction of OMW seems to indicate she tought it was far more than an EA.
> Is it possible that you didn't go all the way with your investigation "in exchange" for her forgetting about your financial mess up? Because I think it sounds like that...


I never said it was only a texting affair. It was an emotinal affair. They had been friends. She thought they were both going through something similar and they started talking more and getting closer until there was an emotional bond forming. The reason she was speaking to him and not his wife was the fact that his wife had done very similar financial things like I had done. He started the texting according to phone records. He lived in a different town a ways from our home when he was separated so there was no visits there. He was only in my home to watch MMA fights with a big group of guys my wife was not there and it had been over 9 months since I had hosted a fight. I had him helping her with pasture chores where they both boarded their animals. She had had surgery and couldn't do as much heavy lifting and needed help. Since his animals were there it made perfect since to me. Plus don't like horses.

AGAIN I AM 100% sure that this did not go past an EA. Even his wife had to admit that once she finally calmed down.


----------



## Chaparral

soccermom2three said:


> I don't think it's logical at all. I think it's paranoia. The logical conclusion is that the OM is a crazy a-hole.


I wasn't talking about this case in particular. The probability someone goes underground after DDay is very high. The false reconciliation rate here is very high. Verifying is standard procedure.

I admit I have no idea what she's doing. With the new info, I have no idea what's going on.

He isn't paranoid at all. He has no idea what really happened yet.


----------



## chaos

kristin2349 said:


> Adrianna is sharp as a tack. I don't think she is confusing threads.
> 
> She is a BS and she knows nothing justifies an affair.
> 
> It does seem like she knows BigDogs or his story, but shes not filling in the blanks.


Then why is she being so cryptic? Why not come out and say it?

This is what bigdogs wrote.



bigdogs said:


> She said it was nice to have someone to talk to that was having similar marital problems to the ones were were having. He befriended her and I feel he was trying to seduce her while she was at her lowest, physically and mentally because of the surgeries and our financial issues. *My stupidity nearly cost us our house. She trusted me to take care of things while she was healing and I lied and hid things from her. I took our house payment monies and paid the rent for my businesses instead. She had no clue until the foreclosure notice came. Then she just shut down on me. She told me we needed to go to counseling to figure things out. I refused so she just quit trying with our marriage, and I let her.*


"Financial infidelity" is serious and bigdogs behavior was far from being a responsible and trustworthy husband, but that is a separate issue that should be talked about if his wife ever chooses to become a TAM member. Until then, the topic is the OM's actions that brought about this thread.


----------



## soccermom2three

Chaparral said:


> He isn't paranoid at all. He has no idea what really happened yet.


"AGAIN I AM 100% sure that this did not go past an EA. Even his wife had to admit that once she finally calmed down."


----------



## chaos

soccermom2three said:


> "AGAIN I AM 100% sure that this did not go past an EA. Even his wife had to admit that once she finally calmed down."


I agree. Bigdogs states that the very brief EA happened while she was recovering from health issues, so continuing to insist on a PA is ludicrous.


----------



## G.J.

I said earlier about the dogs reaction to the guy when he called

If the dogs dont usually bark as vigourously at people they could be jealous of the guy as they remember his behavious with yout wife

You know your dogs, was their behavoiur as you would expect to him?


----------



## Dogbert

I trust bigdogs' dogs judge of character with regards to the OM.


----------



## bigdogs

My dogs are very spooked by him for sure. I think 90% of that is the smell of his job on him. Very distinct


----------



## ThePheonix

Bigdog, you said your job was to honor the promise ya'll made to each other a few months ago. I implied earlier you may have buyer's remorse because you came here with questions to begin with. Sounds like, based on direct evidence you have, you're satisfied nothing other than a short term emotional exchange took place between these two. Accordingly, you need to let the dust settle and live up to your end of the promise. You'll find out soon enough is this promise and commitment to the marriage is valid on her end. Trust me on this. Very few women can stock shelves in two different stores and she'll treat you like a 10 year old computer game.


----------



## bigdogs

synthetic said:


> Please explain this so we don't waste our time on this any more.
> 
> What has bigdogs done after his wife's EA that he's not willing to admit?
> 
> You started it, you need to elaborate.


Adriana may know me from another forum. My wife and I posted on SI for a bit.


----------



## turnera

So you still didn't answer me: what DID you do that you're not telling?


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> Adriana may know me from another forum. My wife and I posted on SI for a bit.


And....


----------



## Thor

Did she really find the VAR by accident or did she go looking for it and then created the cover story of the car wash?


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> What to you mean? I would be willing to admit it but I don't know what you are referring to. I did many things that I am not proud of after I found out.



Bigdogs, this is your thread so you can chose how little or how much you want to reveal in it. You get to decide how much you want to tell but you would get better advice if the posters knew more about your situation.

However, I'm getting impression that you didn't come here looking for advice. I think what you're really hoping for was getting some attention and empathy for yourself and you simply used OM's unannounced visit as a bite.

You say that after you found out you did many things that you aren't proud of. Sorry, but what you have done after discovering her "kind of" affair, was a combination of emotional abuse and plain cowardness on your part. Don't try to sugarcoat it.


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> I put a VAR in her car because some of the posts on here were starting to make me paranoid. I am human. I allowed a little doubt to creep in.



Are you trying to imply that you have never display this kind of behaviour before? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you accuse her of having an affair with her own uncle? And, it wasn't the only time, was it?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Wow dude. Scarlett A'ing your wife is utterly disgusting. I am not condoning her actions, but you are the most timid beta male I've seen in a while.


----------



## bigdogs

Thor said:


> Did she really find the VAR by accident or did she go looking for it and then created the cover story of the car wash?


I noticed when I put the VAR under the car seat the car was very dirty. She went on a little vacation last week and the 17 year old had the car. Left it a mess. She came home to a car full of fast food wrappers and empty pop cans. She is a neat freak so I am surprised that it took that long to clean it out.


----------



## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE

Adriana - Glad for the heads up.
Bigdogs - I am retracting my earlier statement.
I went so SI and did some digging.

I will say this. You should try as hard as her to fix this.
You need to close the schools. They are not businesses to you but a hobby. A costly hobby at that.

Start dating your wife or leave her, but quit trying to punish her and you.


----------



## bigdogs

adriana said:


> Bigdogs, this is your thread so you can chose how little or how much you want to reveal in it. You get to decide how much you want to tell but you would get better advice if the posters knew more about your situation.
> 
> However, I'm getting impression that you didn't come here looking for advice. I think what you're really hoping for was getting some attention and empathy for yourself and you simply used OM's unannounced visit as a bite.
> 
> You say that after you found out you did many things that you aren't proud of. Sorry, but what you have done after discovering her "kind of" affair, was a combination of emotional abuse and plain cowardness on your part. Don't try to sugarcoat it.


This is all true except the part about me not looking for advice. I was and am very concerned about what his motives could be for stopping over. I let it fester for a week before I thought I should get some advice. I am leaving town today for the weekend and worry that maybe he will try to stop by again.


----------



## adriana

Fenris said:


> But how do you know this?



I Ching


----------



## Dyokemm

Adriana,

I guess you are aware of more info than the rest of us.

I will defer to your call then on what has transpired since the EA.

You are 100% correct when you told OP that he can't get useful advice here if he is not giving all of the relevant facts.

Good job calling this out.


----------



## bigdogs

turnera said:


> So you still didn't answer me: what DID you do that you're not telling?


I refused to talk to her about anything but household bills for almost 4 months, while she was jumping through hoops trying to make things up to me. I told everyone we know and the parents of my students that she had had an affair. I let them all hate on her and talk bad about her. I told our neighbor who started making comments to her calling her a *unt, and ***** and worse to her face. She just kept working on herself. Even after I found out that it was not a PA I didn't correct anyone or let anyone know the extent of the affair. I allowed her to empty her retirement to pay my business rent because at the time I felt that she owed me that after what she had done. After four months she just seemed to stop trying to make things up to me and was focusing on herself and making herself a stronger person. I seen the changes she was making and was afraid that I would lose her. So one night in the beginning of February I decided I would make a move on her and started having sex with her again. We started talking and working on things and I told her I wanted things to work. Then I needed her to bring me something to a job site and the neighbor was working with me. He seen her coming, I didn't and he started calling her a nasty name and I let him. I didn't defend her I just kind of nodded and let it go. Turned around and she was right behind me. She was beyond hurt and after that I decided that I had to go all in on our marriage. I have been attending marriage counseling, we talk everyday about what is going right and what is going wrong with our marriage. I have let the neighbor know that any further disrespect of my wife will leave him out of a friend and a job.

After some of the things that I did to her emotionally I know that I probably do not deserve her, and that she will figure that out and start looking at leaving me again. I was really neglectful and irresponsible before her EA. She had three surgeries in less than 6 months and I never missed teaching one class to be with her. I pushed her off on other people to assist her. I even had the OM drive her car home from the hospital after her second surgery because I had to work she had to drive herself to the hospital. 

I am trying to change. I am getting help. I am shutting down the business that nearly lost us our house at the end of May. I am shutting down the smallest one the beginning of May. I am keeping the largest school open because it pays for itself. I am trying to be more open but that is hard with my disorder. I don't explain things well.

I didn't leave things out to make me look better. I left them out because I was trying to move on from those things and I was not concerned with my wife being honest, just the motives of the other man.


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> This is all true except the part about me not looking for advice. I was and am very concerned about what his motives could be for stopping over. I let it fester for a week before I thought I should get some advice. I am leaving town today for the weekend and worry that maybe he will try to stop by again.


2 VARs in the house (at least you will catch first 24 hours depending on battery life) 

this time hidden properly 

One in lge and one in bedroom

Fear is then laid to rest when you come home *and find nothing*


----------



## kristin2349

BigDogs, keep getting help.

Stop treating your wife like this. You were NOT cheated on. You knew every bit of her relationship that you encouraged...She never once was violating any boundary where you were protesting. When you asked her to end the relationship with him after you decided it was not OK, she did. You knew of all of it while it was happening.

You cheated on her financially and not only to pay for your hobby, but to keep her from leaving you. You bankrupted her to keep her with you, isn't that more like the truth?

Didn't you do that to your ex-wife too? 

Some of that might have helped people make a more informed decision. It certainly changed my view. 

Like I said keep getting help.


----------



## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> BigDogs, keep getting help.
> 
> Stop treating your wife like this. You were NOT cheated on. You knew every bit of her relationship that you encouraged...She never once was violating any boundary where you were protesting. When you asked her to end the relationship with him after you decided it was not OK, she did. You knew of all of it while it was happening.
> 
> You cheated on her financially and not only to pay for your hobby, but to keep her from leaving you. You bankrupted her to keep her with you, isn't that more like the truth?
> 
> Didn't you do that to your ex-wife too?
> 
> Some of that might have helped people make a more informed decision. It certainly changed my view.
> 
> Like I said keep getting help.


When his wife first notified me of the affair. She told me that it was a physical affair. She told me that she had audio and video of the affair. She had copies of text messages. I believed every word she told me. Even when my wife told me it was not a PA I refused to believe her. When I found out the OMW was lying about having video and audio trying to get my wife to confess to something more than talking. It was not until my anger and embarrassment (his wife told everyone in our town that my wife was sleeping with more than just her husband) started to get under control did I start to see things how they were. I don't process things like everyone else. I have a hard time opening up. I have Aspergers. 

I am trying to make thing up to my wife I know that I have a long way to go.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

WOW Bigdogs...

Didn't you ever hear of "Martial Virtue"?

You blew that big time. 
Whatever Martial Arts you have been trained in... either sucks big time, your instructors sucked bigtime or you just never learned your lessons and just got a swelled head... something that runs rampant in the modern day Martial Arts scene.

If I were you, I'd shut down your schools cause you don't deserve to teach the arts to anyone, let alone kids.

This tournament business is bullsh-t especially in the light of this new info. Cancel your trip. Save your students from thinking they are learning something useful. 

Take off your 6th degree belt and hang it in the closet.

Your art is called "Bullsh-t Do".

You should be ashamed of yourself for acting as you have.


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> When his wife first notified me of the affair. She told me that it was a physical affair. She told me that she had audio and video of the affair. She had copies of text messages. I believed every word she told me. Even when my wife told me it was not a PA I refused to believe her. When I found out the OMW was lying about having video and audio trying to get my wife to confess to something more than talking. It was not until my anger and embarrassment (his wife told everyone in our town that my wife was sleeping with more than just her husband) started to get under control did I start to see things how they were. I don't process things like everyone else. I have a hard time opening up. I have Aspergers.
> 
> I am trying to make thing up to my wife I know that I have a long way to go.



Yeah and you are ignoring you using money as a way to control women. You drained all of your wife's retirement and savings to not only fund your hobby that you can't afford, but also to keep her from leaving you.

You did that to your ex-wife also. Are you working on that? You betrayed your wife, she never betrayed you.

ETA:

BTW, This trip you are going on. It is a tournament or some hobby related event that you can't afford isn't it? You are STILL putting your hobby above your marriage.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are still hedging with your story bigdogs. I've read your other threads and what your wife posted. She's trying really hard and IMO you are sabotaging the reconciliation. So, you need to decide if you want to be in or out of the marriage.


----------



## bigdogs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are still hedging with your story bigdogs. I've read your other threads and what your wife posted. She's trying really hard and IMO you are sabotaging the reconciliation. So, you need to decide if you want to be in or out of the marriage.


Since I started doing the work and going to marriage counseling I feel that we are in a good place. This is why I have been defending her as hard as I have been. I know that I screwed everything up in the beginning I am really trying now.

I am not a perfect husband, My Aspergers had made me one sided and hyper focused. I never sought help with it until two months ago.

With my ex-wife I drained our joint savings to buy martial arts equipment. In my defense I was the only one working and contributing to the joint savings. 
My current wife put her retirement money into my business account. I didn't ask her to do this. When she did this I had initially thought it was an admission of guilt and she was trying to bribe me into not being mad. I can't say that I was really thinking rationally at the time. I thought she had been sleeping around.


----------



## 2asdf2

adriana said:


> Bigdogs, *this is your thread so you can chose how little or how much you want to reveal in it*. You get to decide how much you want to tell but you would get better advice if the posters knew more about your situation.
> 
> However, I'm getting impression that you didn't come here looking for advice. I think what you're really hoping for was getting some attention and empathy for yourself and you simply used OM's unannounced visit as a bite.
> 
> You say that after you found out you did many things that you aren't proud of. Sorry, but what you have done after discovering her "kind of" affair, was a combination of emotional abuse and plain cowardness on your part. Don't try to sugarcoat it.





adriana said:


> Are you trying to imply that you have never display this kind of behaviour before? Correct me if I'm wrong but *didn't you accuse her of having an affair with her own uncle?* And, it wasn't the only time, was it?


Way to stick to your guns!


----------



## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> Yeah and you are ignoring you using money as a way to control women. You drained all of your wife's retirement and savings to not only fund your hobby that you can't afford, but also to keep her from leaving you.
> 
> You did that to your ex-wife also. Are you working on that? You betrayed your wife, she never betrayed you.
> 
> ETA:
> 
> BTW, This trip you are going on. It is a tournament or some hobby related event that you can't afford isn't it? You are STILL putting your hobby above your marriage.


I gave my Ex her share of the savings when I refinanced the house after the divorce.

The trip I am going on is tournament related. It is a nationals qualifier. I asked her if I could go and she said yes. Parents are paying my expenses.


----------



## bigdogs

2asdf2 said:


> Way to stick to your guns!


I never accused her of having an affair with her uncle ( he was terminal and she was taking care of him). I was worried about her uncles friends. They were always hitting on her.


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> I gave my Ex her share of the savings when I refinanced the house after the divorce.
> 
> The trip I am going on is tournament related. It is a nationals qualifier. I asked her if I could go and she said yes. Parents are paying my expenses.



Dude you are 53 and almost had your house in foreclosure and you are still wasting money on this hobby you can't afford. And taking it from your parents at your age:scratchhead:


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> I never accused her of having an affair with her uncle ( he was terminal and she was taking care of him). I was worried about her uncles friends. They were always hitting on her.


Your words: you accused her of having an affair with her uncle because she went to his house wearing a tank top in the summer.


----------



## alte Dame

OK, so you seem sincere in your desire to be a better man. I know that Aspergers is an enormous challenge. I think it is hugely to her credit that she is trying so hard. She sounds like a very compassionate, loving person.

Given everything you've done, isn't it possible that the OM was concerned for your W and was checking in to see to her safety? To see if she is OK?

And wouldn't it be advisable not to go on the trip? Just because your loving W will continue to sacrifice for your happiness, it doesn't mean that you should ask her to.


----------



## bigdogs

I knew she was not. I was mad and when I get mad I act out. That day I screamed at her and told her she might as well go over there naked. I am not proud of how I have acted. I am ashamed of myself. Again though this post was not at all about my wife and I. I have repeatedly said that I did wrong and that we have been working on it. This post was seeking advice on WHY THE OM WOULD COME TO MY HOUSE? What were his motives? I didn't ask anyone to judge my wife, or accuse her of anything. I am concerned about him. I am concerned that something may happen to my wife. If you have read the posts you understand why my wife had to get a restraining order. 
I know that my wife has been working hard. I have acknowledged that and started working on myself as well. It just took me a little longer. I am sorry that this thread turned into a discussion on how bad of a husband I am because I already know this and am dragging up things now that my wife and I had already gone through and worked on in counseling and are trying to put behind us. I am now taking medication to help me deal with my aspergers and become a better communicator and deal better in hard situations


----------



## kristin2349

What evidence do you have that the OM is dangerous?

He was a friend to you AND your wife. YOU asked him to help her and encouraged her to spend time with him. You knew the nature and level of contact between them. When you asked her to stop SHE DID, and so did he.

He didn't threaten you or your wife. You didn't ask him WHY he was there. He left when he was asked. If you gave a good God [email protected]@mn about him coming over again then you would stay home. But again, your hobby is more important.


----------



## turnera

OP, you may as well end the thread; it's served its purpose.

T/J: have you read this book? I heard about it on NPR and it seems to be really good for people with Aspergers. It's written by a husband with it who didn't know he had it until his wife figured it out. Good stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Journal-Best-Practices-Marriage/dp/1439189749


----------



## easysolution

bigdogs said:


> This post was seeking advice on WHY THE OM WOULD COME TO MY HOUSE? What were his motives?


Could it be something as simple as you never telling him explicitly that your friendship is over and to stay away from you and your wife? I see a lot of ducking and freezing when ever you've seen him but never a calm discussion about what transgression he commited and how to best solve it.



bigdogs said:


> If you have read the posts you understand why my wife had to get a restraining order.


Yeah, against his wife. What's that gotta do with him? He doesn't live with her anymore and they're divorcing.
From his POV, his ex stirred up some trouble between all of you. After a few months had passed, he assumed things had calmed down and you could all get back to being friends.


----------



## kristin2349

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Just WOW! The whole story changed when parts if the truth started trickeling out. Your wife certainly has her work cut out being married to you. I don't know what to think or say about this thread anymore. I think your wife must really love you, that's all.


He hasn't touched on branding her with the Scarlet A, telling his students & friends about her. They then called her unspeakable names, and he allowed it. She was called the C word and Big Dogs did nothing. He didn't even set the record straight when asked. Didn't comfort his wife when she heard his "friend" call her these names. He kept hanging out with the guy. This was just last month. BigDogs has big problems. The supposed OM isn't one of them. Not by a long shot.

You said without honor you are nothing BigDogs. There is nothing honorable about your behavior towards the one you vowed to honor.


----------



## Chas

From easysolution



> Could it be something as simple as you never telling him explicitly that your friendship is over and to stay away from you and your wife? I see a lot of ducking and freezing when ever you've seen him but never a calm discussion about what transgression he committed and how to best solve it.


I agree. On reflection I saw that a simple event was analyzed over and over for motivation and upon finding none the group turned to analyzing the EA. Why not just tell the OM to stay away?

Kristin2349

After reading the things he allowed others to say to his wife I felt sick to my stomach. I too would like Bigdogs to address what he's done to make up for that, other than threatening his neighbor. Even if my wife did have an PA, I would not tolerate other people calling her ugly names. Affairs are wrong and painful but people have no right to judge and name call, especially when they don't have the facts. Most people treat thieves and crooks better than that.


----------



## bigdogs

kristin2349 said:


> He hasn't touched on branding her with the Scarlet A, telling his students & friends about her. They then called her unspeakable names, and he allowed it. She was called the C word and Big Dogs did nothing. He didn't even set the record straight when asked. Didn't comfort his wife when she heard his "friend" call her these names. He kept hanging out with the guy. This was just last month. BigDogs has big problems. The supposed OM isn't one of them. Not by a long shot.
> 
> You said without honor you are nothing BigDogs. There is nothing honorable about your behavior towards the one you vowed to honor.


Since that incident with the neighbor, I have set everyone straight. I started going to counseling. I am working hard to make things up to her.

I want to be clear. I knew they were talking and were friends. *I had no idea he and his wife were not living together at the time or I would not have been OK with it.* * I had no idea that they were speaking about intimate things and talking about leaving the marriage. I would not have been OK with that.* I did not ask her to stop talking to him. Had his wife not found the texts and had suspicions it would probably still be happening and maybe progressed further. His wife come to my house and ask me to meet her in a public place. She then told me that her husband and my wife were having an affair. She then told me that she had audio and video of the affair and showed me the text messages. She said it had been going on for months. And that my wife had been sleeping with other men in town also. She stated to me that her husband had also been sleeping around with other friends of hers. She said she had proof. Everything she told me rang true. *I BELIEVED HER!* My wife was gone every Sunday. That was his day off. When I asked my wife she just said she was sorry and walked out of the house. She never denied it at first. I had his wife texting me and calling me every day telling me something new she found out. On the forum I was being told that it was more. That my wife was lying. That I had to do a 180 and detach from her. I read advice to out her, so I did. When this started I was devastated. I didn't know what to do. I felt like a robot that was just like going through the motions. It was not until almost Christmas did his wife come clean to me and tell me that she was making things up to see if my wife would come clean. She said all she had were the text messages.

I am truly sorry for everything and I am trying to make it up to her.


----------



## bigdogs

Chas said:


> From easysolution
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. On reflection I saw that a simple event was analyzed over and over for motivation and upon finding none the group turned to analyzing the EA. Why not just tell the OM to stay away?
> 
> Kristin2349
> 
> After reading the things he allowed others to say to his wife I felt sick to my stomach. I too would like Bigdogs to address what he's done to make up for that, other than threatening his neighbor. Even if my wife did have an PA, I would not tolerate other people calling her ugly names. Affairs are wrong and painful but people have no right to judge and name call, especially when they don't have the facts. Most people treat thieves and crooks better than that.


Since this I have been attending counseling on my own and with her. I have gotten on medication for my Aspergers and for anxiety and it seems to be working well. I have started working a second job to replenish the money that she gave me for my business. I have brought her into my studio and made an announcement to the parents and adult students that I had been wrong and I would not tolerate any ill treatment of my wife. I have been making a focused effort to make amends to my wife. She has told me that she forgives me. She says that she probably would have done the same thing if she thought I cheated on her.


----------



## jsmart

alte Dame said:


> OK, so you seem sincere in your desire to be a better man. I know that Aspergers is an enormous challenge. I think it is hugely to her credit that she is trying so hard. She sounds like a very compassionate, loving person.
> 
> Given everything you've done, isn't it possible that the OM was concerned for your W and was checking in to see to her safety? To see if she is OK?
> 
> And wouldn't it be advisable not to go on the trip? Just because your loving W will continue to sacrifice for your happiness, it doesn't mean that you should ask her to.


I wasn't able to find his thread on SI so I can only comment on what was shared but now knowing that he has asbergers, I can understand how he could struggle with some of his social interactions with his wife, OM, and others. 

Calls for him to drop his "hobby", which probably did much to help him grow as a person, don't seem to be fair. Martial arts is obvisously a passion that probably brings meaning to his life.

I truly hope that wife's EA was really just that. This guy coming to OP's house just doesn't sound kosher but stranger things have happened. OP needs to understand that it's OK to let someone know that you don't want them in your life and that they're not welcomed in your home. OP needs to mate guard not think that others will not take advantage of a situation.


----------



## kristin2349

Chas said:


> From easysolution
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. On reflection I saw that a simple event was analyzed over and over for motivation and upon finding none the group turned to analyzing the EA. Why not just tell the OM to stay away?
> 
> Kristin2349
> 
> After reading the things he allowed others to say to his wife I felt sick to my stomach. I too would like Bigdogs to address what he's done to make up for that, other than threatening his neighbor. Even if my wife did have an PA, I would not tolerate other people calling her ugly names. Affairs are wrong and painful but people have no right to judge and name call, especially when they don't have the facts. Most people treat thieves and crooks better than that.



It gets worse. I could list some other really vile, low things but anyone with Google can find the threads on SurvingInfidelity.


----------



## alte Dame

bigdogs said:


> Since that incident with the neighbor, I have set everyone straight. I started going to counseling. I am working hard to make things up to her.
> 
> I want to be clear. I knew they were talking and were friends. *I had no idea he and his wife were not living together at the time or I would not have been OK with it.* * I had no idea that they were speaking about intimate things and talking about leaving the marriage. I would not have been OK with that.* I did not ask her to stop talking to him. Had his wife not found the texts and had suspicions it would probably still be happening and maybe progressed further. His wife come to my house and ask me to meet her in a public place. She then told me that her husband and my wife were having an affair. She then told me that she had audio and video of the affair and showed me the text messages. She said it had been going on for months. And that my wife had been sleeping with other men in town also. She stated to me that her husband had also been sleeping around with other friends of hers. She said she had proof. Everything she told me rang true. *I BELIEVED HER!* My wife was gone every Sunday. That was his day off. When I asked my wife she just said she was sorry and walked out of the house. She never denied it at first. I had his wife texting me and calling me every day telling me something new she found out. On the forum I was being told that it was more. That my wife was lying. That I had to do a 180 and detach from her. I read advice to out her, so I did. When this started I was devastated. I didn't know what to do. I felt like a robot that was just like going through the motions. It was not until almost Christmas did his wife come clean to me and tell me that she was making things up to see if my wife would come clean. She said all she had were the text messages.
> 
> I am truly sorry for everything and I am trying to make it up to her.


It sounds like you had a toxic brew of an EA of your wife's, deceit on the part of the OM's wife, and the standard advice on infidelity forums, which is to work with the other BS, to not believe that you have the truth from the WS, and to expose. With your Aspergers diagnosis, your version of exposure makes more sense, since it lacked social aptitude.

These aren't excuses for putting your wife through this, but I can imagine that it's possible that it was a perfect storm of factors that got you where you are & that you are now trying to make things right. You sound like you are doing that.

Again, for the OM, I would back away from suspicions at this point. Your wife sounds committed to working things out, so stay focused on that. If he visits again, try the novel approach of asking him directly what's going on. (Shocking, I know, actually asking the man what he's thinking....)


----------



## synthetic

> I didn't leave things out to make me look better.


Yes you did 

Even after reading your entire story (which makes you look like a much less innocent person in my view), I still maintain that your wife is not being sincere about having no contact with the other dude. There's enough flags in your first post (if you're telling the truth!) to warrant some investigation.

You and your wife have truly destroyed your marriage and your financials but for various reasons you're still together and seemingly 'okay' with that? Am I right?

Do you think your wife will leave you? Do you have thoughts of leaving her yourself? 

Are you living in fear of losing her everyday? That's what I get from your posts.


----------



## Chas

Bigdogs


> Since this I have been attending counseling on my own and with her. I have gotten on medication for my Aspergers and for anxiety and it seems to be working well. I have started working a second job to replenish the money that she gave me for my business. I have brought her into my studio and made an announcement to the parents and adult students that I had been wrong and I would not tolerate any ill treatment of my wife. I have been making a focused effort to make amends to my wife. She has told me that she forgives me. She says that she probably would have done the same thing if she thought I cheated on her.


It's good to see that you've tried to right your wrongs, and learned from the incident. Now you know to independently verify accusations. Also, I hope you see that having all the facts (even thou one sided) makes it much better for those giving you advice. I'm not familiar with the effects of aspergers but it appears to have influenced you in making the monumental screw up of trying to bug her car.

Personally, I think she seems to be a good person and worth hanging on to, despite some opinions.


----------



## bigdogs

synthetic said:


> Yes you did
> 
> Even after reading your entire story (which makes you look like a much less innocent person in my view), I still maintain that your wife is not being sincere about having no contact with the other dude. There's enough flags in your first post (if you're telling the truth!) to warrant some investigation.
> 
> You and your wife have truly destroyed your marriage and your financials but for various reasons you're still together and seemingly 'okay' with that? Am I right?
> 
> Do you think your wife will leave you? Do you have thoughts of leaving her yourself?
> 
> Are you living in fear of losing her everyday? That's what I get from your posts.



Do I think my wife will leave me? Do I live in fear of losing her everyday?

My wife is fun. She likes to go out drinking and dancing. I don't drink at all and hate going to the bar so I will not go with her. Most of her friends are male and they are very close. So I have a tendency to get very jealous, irrationally of them. I know that she would be able to find someone who didn't have the challenges that I have. Someone that would take her out dancing and doing things that she enjoys. Someone that didn't let her down all the time.

We have talked after I got back from my trip and things are good. I am going away again this weekend and invited her to go. She told me that she couldn't go she had things she had to take care of. Maybe next time? I think she was just happy that I invited her. 

I am learning, slowing...


----------



## Chaparral

Man up and learn to dance. You're playing with fire letting her go out dancing with other men. You would not believe how many men here found that out the hard way.

Never stop romancing and dating your wife!

You didn't get the two books linked to below did you?


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, if you asked her if the other man liked to dance, what would she say? You think they didn't talk about that?


----------



## turnera

bigdogs said:


> Do I think my wife will leave me?
> 
> She likes to go out drinking and dancing. I don't drink at all and hate going to the bar so I will not go with her.
> 
> Most of her friends are male
> 
> Someone that didn't let her down all the time.
> 
> I am learning, slowing...


Looking at the above, what would YOU do if you were her? The one thing she enjoys most, you flat out refuse to do. So you send her out to do it with other men. And then become a jealous husband who is probably overbearing about it or petulant, neither of which is attractive.

Those other guys are probably starting to look more and more attractive to her.


----------



## turnera

I don't think she's cheating. But I can recall DOZENS of women who have come here saying 'my husband won't do anything with me. I don't care what, just anything. All he does is sit at home, watch tv, read, play games (fill in the blank), and all I want is what we had when we were dating - him CARING about spending time with me outside our couch.' 

And then they usually follow up with 'I just don't think I can live like this the rest of my life. I'd rather be divorced and alone than married and alone. It hurts too much.'


----------



## ThePheonix

turnera said:


> Looking at the above, what would YOU do if you were her? The one thing she enjoys most, you flat out refuse to do.


And this is after she used her retirement plan to financially bail you out in addition to you risking her home. Yet you send her out to have fun with other guys. Bigdog, during my days of escorting, how many women do you think employed me just to spend time treating them special and doing things with them the husbands refused to do, like dancing? Can you imagine what she felt as one of these guys pulled her tight against him on the dance floor, pressing his pubic bones against hers as they swayed to the music, as she realized she wasn't worth you getting off your azz and going with her. You don't want to know. If I was her dance partner, I'd get the DJ to play the following. Visualize her and some cat moving on the dance floor. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnVOt2LK2Gg


Here's a caveat Dawg. Step up your "learning" before some POS bastard like I used to be takes her off your hands. If you were that special, this other guy wouldn't even be in the picture.


----------



## MattMatt

Chaparral said:


> Man up and learn to dance. You're playing with fire letting her go out dancing with other men. You would not believe how many men here found that out the hard way.
> 
> Never stop romancing and dating your wife!
> 
> You didn't get the two books linked to below did you?


My wife hates going out, too. ASD is a problem for "normal" social activities.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

MattMatt said:


> My wife hates going out, too. ASD is a problem for "normal" social activities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But does she go out anyway? As said before, how many times do you see men being drug around the mall or eating at restaurants they hate. It isn't about liking what you're doing its about liking who you're doing it with. Its sacrificing for your partner.

Simply getting off the dime and doing things sometimes turns you on to things that you find you can enjoy.


----------



## bandit.45

I read some of these threads by these guys who are so friggin clueless..and...

I just don't know folks...I just don't know. I'm going to stay off this thread because I really want to grab this guy and just shake him.


----------



## naiveonedave

bigdogs said:


> My wife is fun. She likes to go out drinking and dancing. I don't drink at all and hate going to the bar so I will not go with her. Most of her friends are male and they are very close. So I have a tendency to get very jealous, irrationally of them. I know that she would be able to find someone who didn't have the challenges that I have. Someone that would take her out dancing and doing things that she enjoys. Someone that didn't let her down all the time.
> 
> We have talked after I got back from my trip and things are good. I am going away again this weekend and invited her to go. She told me that she couldn't go she had things she had to take care of. Maybe next time? I think she was just happy that I invited her.
> 
> I am learning, slowing...


This is a huge mistake: dancing is a form of intimacy. You are bailing on a great chance to connect with your W. Why does she have so many male friends? Because they are filling a void and she is giving them vibes that she is available, because you are not there. She isn't going with you, because she has to take care of her boyfriend.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

Bigdogs - Martial Arts and Marital arts are separated by the placement of the "i"

Its time to put your skills into the Marital Arts.


----------



## bigdogs

naiveonedave said:


> This is a huge mistake: dancing is a form of intimacy. You are bailing on a great chance to connect with your W. Why does she have so many male friends? Because they are filling a void and she is giving them vibes that she is available, because you are not there. She isn't going with you, because she has to take care of her boyfriend.



When she goes out she goes out with her girlfriends. They dance together, not with other men. I have gone once or twice but I am very uncomfortable and do not stay long.

Not her guy friends. She has about 4 close male friends because they are like brothers to her. Her mother was 14 when she was born so she grew up with her uncles who were not much older than her and their friends they are more like big brothers. They would do anything for her. Her uncles have both recently passed at young ages. One was 46 the other 52. At one time I was very jealous by the bond she had with them, but I realized when I watched her taking care of her uncles as they were dying that they were just a family. Nothing to be jealous about.


----------



## turnera

None of that addresses the fact that you're choosing to NOT meet your wife's emotional needs. Not even TRY to meet it. And that's fine, if you feel that's how you have to be. Just be prepared for her to get fed up and leave you.


----------



## naiveonedave

bigdogs said:


> When she goes out she goes out with her girlfriends. They dance together, not with other men. I have gone once or twice but I am very uncomfortable and do not stay long.
> 
> Not her guy friends. She has about 4 close male friends because they are like brothers to her. Her mother was 14 when she was born so she grew up with her uncles who were not much older than her and their friends they are more like big brothers. They would do anything for her. Her uncles have both recently passed at young ages. One was 46 the other 52. At one time I was very jealous by the bond she had with them, but I realized when I watched her taking care of her uncles as they were dying that they were just a family. Nothing to be jealous about.


I have NEVER, EVER seen a group of women dancing where men did not join in. At the minimum they get 'orbitized', but, especially if some in the group are attractive, men will flock to such groups. This is female behavior aimed at attracting potential mates.

The "my wife has male friends who are like brothers" is a red flag. Most men won't be friends with a woman they see as attractive without trying to get in her panties. One woman would not have 4 guys like this in her life, most likely. 

I think you need to open your eyes a bit more.


----------



## bigdogs

naiveonedave said:


> I have NEVER, EVER seen a group of women dancing where men did not join in. At the minimum they get 'orbitized', but, especially if some in the group are attractive, men will flock to such groups. This is female behavior aimed at attracting potential mates.
> 
> The "my wife has male friends who are like brothers" is a red flag. Most men won't be friends with a woman they see as attractive without trying to get in her panties. One woman would not have 4 guys like this in her life, most likely.
> 
> I think you need to open your eyes a bit more.


These men grew up babysitting her, changing her diapers. They do not think of her in that way at all. They are very good guys. I don't think your analogy of most men is correct.

I think that my wife is very attractive. She has a nice body and very pretty face. She definitely does not look 40.

I don't like it when my wife goes out. She knows that I don't like it. She is going to do it anyway. She has agreed that she will not go out all the time. She gets every tuesday night to hang with her friends and one weekend a month unless there is a special party or something. Her and her girlfriends have a "First Friday" girls night out every month. That is why she can't go out of town with me this weekend. When she goes out she is with two gay women, two married women, one divorced women, and my ex girlfriend. I trust them.


----------



## bigdogs

MarriedGuy221 said:


> You are not meeting her emotional needs. You are not meeting her emotional needs. You are not meeting her emotional needs. You are not meeting her emotional needs.
> 
> Your comments are unresponsive to what we are saying.
> 
> If this is how you listen and communicate with your wife, then the problems are obvious and they are ALL yours.
> 
> Please respond to all the posters who say you MUST go out with her. Please respond with something other than "I don't enjoy it"
> 
> Please respond "I understand that I am not meeting her needs. I understand that allowing her to go out dancing means guys are looking at her and hitting on her. However, I don't care because doing something I don't enjoy is far worse than losing my wife to another man or to my neglect."
> 
> That had been your response so far so please directly acknowledge it.
> 
> It's the least you can do with so many people here trying to help.


I am working on trying to be more emotionally available. I have come along way in the last few months. There are things that we both enjoy that we do together. We go bowling, we play poker. She has told me that she would rather me not go out with her if I am uncomfortable with it that she can't relax and enjoy herself if I am uptight and not enjoying myself. I am trying to respect her wishes. 

She told me the other night that she thought we needed to cuddle more. I have been going to bed early to spend some time cuddling (without sex). She has told me she needs more hand holding I have been making an effort to do that. I am listening to her and trying to make those adjustments. I know that I pushed her to the point of having and EA and considering a PA with my non-actions.

I don't process emotions like everyone else. Sometimes it feels like I have OCD. I can't get off of something. My wife says I am like a dog with a bone. It is hard because as hard as I am trying and as hard as she is trying, I still feel blindsided occasionally by her EA and just when I think that I am over it, something makes me think of it then I go back to sullen and sulky.


----------



## turnera

Ask your therapist for 'steps' to take when that happens.

Did you read that book I told you about?


----------



## OldWolf57

Her girls friday is so important that she put being with you on a lower scale dude.
Very few women would turn down an out of town trip with hubby for just hanging out with friends she can see everyday.
JMHO.

Here she goes an get's into an EA because of your inattention, but turn down a trip with all your attention.

Someone plz tell me what's wrong with this picture.


----------



## jsmart

OldWolf57 said:


> *Her girls friday is so important that she put being with you on a lower scale* dude.
> Very few women would turn down an out of town trip with hubby for just hanging out with friends she can see everyday.
> JMHO.
> 
> Here she goes an get's into an EA because of your inattention, but turn down a trip with all your attention.
> 
> Someone plz tell me what's wrong with this picture.


I've read OPs and his wife's thread on SI and want to believe that nothing is up because she seemed to really want to fix things and she endured a lot from OP but some things still don't sound right.

I'm strongly against GNO. Especially if it involves drinking and dancing. And now your telling us that on top of the weekly GNO there is also a monthly weekend out? Man, I don't know but that sounds like a recipe for trouble, if it's not already happening.


----------



## kristin2349

OldWolf57 said:


> Her girls friday is so important that she put being with you on a lower scale dude.
> Very few women would turn down an out of town trip with hubby for just hanging out with friends she can see everyday.
> JMHO.
> 
> Here she goes an get's into an EA because of your inattention, but turn down a trip with all your attention.
> 
> Someone plz tell me what's wrong with this picture.



What is wrong with this picture is this:

He is going out of town for a Martial Arts tournament. She knows she will have NONE of his attention. It is all about Martial Arts for him. 

She knows they are broke, because of his financial screw ups to pay for his Martial Arts hobby, that he calls a "business". She has told him repeatedly they can't afford for him to do these things. He has shown he is willing to lose the roof over their head to keep playing Mr. Martial Arts. His first wife left him over it (he drove her to the poor house too).

The friend that the wife started to get feelings for. He asked the friend to do things the wife asked for BigDogs to do with her. He didn't want to "he doesn't like it"...So in comes the OM at BigDogs request. So it wasn't an EA in the classic sense. It was BigDogs pushing his friend and his wife together repeatedly. He also let others drive her to and from three surgeries. This is not Asbergers it is outright neglect (the nicest term I can manage).

Like Bandit.45 said sometimes you just want to shake people.


----------



## bigdogs

OldWolf57 said:


> Her girls friday is so important that she put being with you on a lower scale dude.
> Very few women would turn down an out of town trip with hubby for just hanging out with friends she can see everyday.
> JMHO.
> 
> Here she goes an get's into an EA because of your inattention, but turn down a trip with all your attention.
> 
> Someone plz tell me what's wrong with this picture.



The weekend out of town is for a Martial Arts tournament where I would be a center judge all day. Friday night I would spend 4 hours helping set up for the tournament. She would be stuck sitting in the bleachers alone for the entire day. I really don't blame her. It is not her thing.


----------



## bigdogs

jsmart said:


> I've read OPs and his wife's thread on SI and want to believe that nothing is up because she seemed to really want to fix things and she endured a lot from OP but some things still don't sound right.
> 
> I'm strongly against GNO. Especially if it involves drinking and dancing. And now your telling us that on top of the weekly GNO there is also a monthly weekend out? Man, I don't know but that sounds like a recipe for trouble, if it's not already happening.


I can's just expect her to stay at home and wait for me. She goes out 5 times a month. On tuesday's she is out from 5-7 pm meeting the girls for martini's. Then one Friday a month unless there is a birthday or game night in the mix.


----------



## ThePheonix

bigdogs said:


> My wife is fun. She likes to go out drinking and dancing. I don't drink at all and hate going to the bar so I will not go with her. _Most of her friends are male and they are very close. [I*]So I have a tendency to get very jealous, irrationally of them*. _





bigdogs said:


> When she goes out she goes out with her girlfriends. They dance together, not with other men. I
> Not her guy friends. She has about 4 close male friends because they are like brothers to her. Her mother was 14 when she was born so she grew up with her uncles who were not much older than her and their friends they are more like big brothers. They would do anything for her. Her uncles have both recently passed at young ages. One was 46 the other 52. At one time I was very jealous by the bond she had with them, but I realized when I watched her taking care of her uncles as they were dying that they were just a family. * Nothing to be jealous about.*



Ok my man, which one is it? You kind of confused me when you mentioned her going out drinking and dancing , her friends being males, and you being jealous in the same paragraph. It seemed to imply she was drinking and dancing with the male friends. Now you're saying she's dancing with the girls and nothing to be jealous about with her male friends. It appears you're changing the story as you go along. Where am I wrong?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bigdogs said:


> I think that my wife is very attractive. She has a nice body and very pretty face. She definitely does not look 40.


You think that it's safe because she ONLY ever has GNO's with these women, that you trust.

She most likely get's hit on buy guys now and again during these, many GNO's. Especially if the same guy(s) keep seeing her in the same place(s) without a husband/BF in tow, time after time....

But not to worry, these other women will stop anything from happening, right...

Hanging out and drinking with out her husband with her all the time...

Just seems like it's advertising somthing that isn't suppose to be on the market. It just makes me wonder how many "tire kickers" get passed on - Until someone scores a test ride...

Good luck with this approach. Even if you don't believe that it's possable, you can't say you weren't warned.


----------



## turnera

Just so you'll understand, most normal men who aren't tied down will go to bars where there is dancing and LOOK FOR women who are at bars without men. They will dance with these women. They will buy drinks for these women. They will flirt with these women, making them feel good. And ultimately, they INTEND to get these women drunk enough and flirted with enough so they can SCREW THEM.

THAT is what your wife goes up against every time she goes to a bar without you.


----------



## OldWolf57

Is your business showing a profit ??

And thanks Kristin for explaining. He seem to only be married for her purse.
Dude, you couldn't be bothered to take your wife for operations ??

Why do you even want to be married??

In fact, I can't see what she is getting out of this, if what Kris said is true.


----------



## OldWolf57

But then again, maybe this is the kind of marriage she wants.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

Your wife goes out an awful lot BD.

I would bet the farm she is cheating.

Sorry.


----------



## Chaparral

bigdogs said:


> When she goes out she goes out with her girlfriends. They dance together, not with other men. I have gone once or twice but I am very uncomfortable and do not stay long.
> 
> Not her guy friends. She has about 4 close male friends because they are like brothers to her. Her mother was 14 when she was born so she grew up with her uncles who were not much older than her and their friends they are more like big brothers. They would do anything for her. Her uncles have both recently passed at young ages. One was 46 the other 52. At one time I was very jealous by the bond she had with them, but I realized when I watched her taking care of her uncles as they were dying that they were just a family. Nothing to be jealous about.


Im not familiar with your condition except what you can read up on the internet. Its obvious from your responses you are unable to understand what people are trying to tell you. It just goes flying past you. Your answers and excuses don't even make sense. Reread what people are telling you. If your answered and responses were correct, you would have had the trouble your having.

Thinking the girls are only dancing with each other is, well, .........stupid. Thinking they are not eye balling other men is being simple minded. Thinking other men aren't hitting on them and buying them drinks in order to get in their pants is absurd. Other men, seeing they have a ring on and their husband doesn't care enough to be there with them and c*ck block them just sees fresh meat for the taking.

An English study showed married women were more flirty and wore more revealing clothes than single women when they went out dancing on girls nights out. Get it?

If you can't man up enough to date and dance with your wife, you should not be married.


----------



## Chaparral

bigdogs said:


> I am working on trying to be more emotionally available. I have come along way in the last few months. There are things that we both enjoy that we do together. We go bowling, we play poker. She has told me that she would rather me not go out with her if I am uncomfortable with it that she can't relax and enjoy herself if I am uptight and not enjoying myself. I am trying to respect her wishes.
> 
> She told me the other night that she thought we needed to cuddle more. I have been going to bed early to spend some time cuddling (without sex). She has told me she needs more hand holding I have been making an effort to do that. I am listening to her and trying to make those adjustments. I know that I pushed her to the point of having and EA and considering a PA with my non-actions.
> 
> I don't process emotions like everyone else. Sometimes it feels like I have OCD. I can't get off of something. My wife says I am like a dog with a bone. It is hard because as hard as I am trying and as hard as she is trying, I still feel blindsided occasionally by her EA and just when I think that I am over it, something makes me think of it then I go back to sullen and sulky.


On a woman's scale, and the women can tell me if I'm wrong, most would rate bowling and poker at a one and dancing at a ten on a one to ten scale. My wife has never asked or indicated to me she would like to go play poker/cards or go bowling.

Your lack of understanding is understandable. Your unwillingness to listen isn't.


----------



## ThePheonix

Don't worry Chappy. After expressing his initial concerns about her actions, and receiving advice based on what he led us to believe, he'll come back with a revised version to assuage his own anxiety.
In the final analysis however, I think this old boy may find out the hard way that the alcohol, the bar atmosphere, the dance floor, and the sexy suggestive music make folks what to touch one another.


----------



## bigdogs

ThePheonix said:


> Don't worry Chappy. After expressing his initial concerns about her actions, and receiving advice based on what he led us to believe, he'll come back with a revised version to assuage his own anxiety.
> In the final analysis however, I think this old boy may find out the hard way that the alcohol, the bar atmosphere, the dance floor, and the sexy suggestive music make folks what to touch one another.


My wife loves to play poker. She was playing it for months before she invited me to play with her. 

I am not trying to revise anything, just answer the questions as they come up. I can't help how people are interpreting my statements. I don't feel that my wife going out once a month to listen to music and dance is excessive. I didn't mean to make it sound like my wife goes out and gets plowed all the time. She enjoys a martini, or a glass of wine. She doesn't drink to excess. 

To the question about my businesses making a profit. I have one school that is doing well now with a very low overhead. I am closing the school that is costing us a lot of money every month at the end of May. I had to give notice and let people finish their contracts. I am also closing the smallest school on the 15th of May that is when my contract with the fitness center is done. This school does not cost anything. I am paid to instruct. I am closing it because it is costing me time with my wife and the small pay is not worth the 1hr commute to teach. I am trying to be a better husband.

I have considered asking my wife to join me on this forum but she says she thinks she is just done with this type of stuff.


----------



## bigdogs

MarriedGuy221 said:


> You say she goes out 5 times a week. Can you be very specific about those tunes? It would help us. The 5-7 drinks with girls was very good example, but do they get dressed up? Does she take anything with her? Do you see her immediately when she returns? Don't assume I am saying she is cheating -- but that level of detail is actually helpful for us.


The 5 times a month- The 5 times a week was a typo that I corrected after seeing some of the other comments I realized what I did.

When she goes out on during the week from 5-7ish she is very dressed up. She goes there directly from her job. So skirt, heels and a nice blouse. They all meet directly from work. I am not home normally when she returns. I teach classes until 9:30 on most weeknights. She is normally either ready for bed or in bed when I get home.


----------



## OldWolf57

bd, not trying to throw gas on a spark. You see there is a poster lady, Lotsa, whose hubby is into the arts, but never makes money at it.

I've read of people like you, and they seem to move into the arts. They say it gives them parameters. 
My concern is the detail Kristin shared of you not taking the time to go to the operations with your wife.
Surely even you know a marital contract mean going for support and out of concern for her, and nothing should have stopped you.

I applaud your growth and wish you and her the very best.


----------



## bigdogs

OldWolf57 said:


> bd, not trying to throw gas on a spark. You see there is a poster lady, Lotsa, whose hubby is into the arts, but never makes money at it.
> 
> I've read of people like you, and they seem to move into the arts. They say it gives them parameters.
> My concern is the detail Kristin shared of you not taking the time to go to the operations with your wife.
> Surely even you know a marital contract mean going for support and out of concern for her, and nothing should have stopped you.
> 
> I applaud your growth and wish you and her the very best.


With my disorder, I was very awkward in school. I was different and did not have any friends besides my siblings. I was bullied and had no self confidence. I didn't even have my first girlfriend until I was 20. I started martial arts when I was 18 and finally felt like I found a niche. I was very good at it and was excelling in competitions. Doing martial arts has really been the only time that I have felt accepted and welcomed. It helped me build some confidence and helped me to relate better to people on a personal level. Had I been diagnosed younger with my aspergers things in my life may have been a lot different. Everyone just said I was shy, or weird. With martial arts I built a positive place for myself.


----------



## badmemory

turnera said:


> Just so you'll understand, most normal men who aren't tied down will go to bars where there is dancing and LOOK FOR women who are at bars without men. They will dance with these women. They will buy drinks for these women. They will flirt with these women, making them feel good. And ultimately, they INTEND to get these women drunk enough and flirted with enough so they can SCREW THEM.
> 
> THAT is what your wife goes up against every time she goes to a bar without you.


Not only that, but how many of her "trusted" friends are cheating on their husbands? And I'm not necessarily talking about at bars. 

I found out the hard way that cheaters tend to inspire each other. My wife had 3 best friends that she had regular GNO's with. One was cheating on her husband, one was a closet lesbian that cheated on her husband with women; and the third? She wasn't cheating; but my wife wound up cheating with her husband.

Just sayin.


----------



## bandit.45

Martial arts is a very good sport for Aspies, as well as kids with ADHD, to enroll in because the repetitive nature of learning and practicing the various forms and moves helps their cognitive development, attention and socialization.


----------



## kristin2349

Because of the start of this thread and the huge glaring gaps in the complete story, Mrs. BigDogs is not getting a fair shake here guys.

I am normally as skeptical as the next BS, but I have read her threads on SI and her story is much different than what is being represented here.

If there is any danger here it is BigDogs neglecting to spend adequate time meeting his wife's emotional needs. His Asbergers is probably behind most of it. It is something to be worked on not an excuse. Martial Arts has probably done BigDogs a lot of good, he has not been able to moderate that and find a balance. Instead of enhancing his life it is causing much damage to his wife. He may lose her if he doesn't wake up and fix these issues.

His wife gave him plenty of warnings, I don't believe she will cheat on BigDogs. I think she will get tired of his single minded focus and leave. It is sad because I think she truly cares about and loves him.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yep, that's why I left the thread. What she did was wrong, no question, but she is owning her fault. 

I do disagree with the claims of a hobby. His hobby became a business. It is insulting and dismissive to minimize the school, whether it makes money or not. I can tell some of you haven't ran a school or competed in martial arts. It is fun, but extremely time consuming to do both.


> With my disorder, I was very awkward in school. I was different and did not have any friends besides my siblings. I was bullied and had no self confidence. I didn't even have my first girlfriend until I was 20. I started martial arts when I was 18 and finally felt like I found a niche. I was very good at it and was excelling in competitions. Doing martial arts has really been the only time that I have felt accepted and welcomed. It helped me build some confidence and helped me to relate better to people on a personal level. Had I been diagnosed younger with my aspergers things in my life may have been a lot different. Everyone just said I was shy, or weird. *With martial arts I built a positive place for myself.*


This post shows it was his crutch and became his support system instead of his wife.The problem is, I am speaking from experience, he never learned to balance a marriage and his business.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

kristin2349 said:


> His wife gave him plenty of warnings, I don't believe she will cheat on BigDogs. *I think she will get tired of his single minded focus and leave.* It is sad because I think she truly cares about and loves him.


I would venture to say that this has been happening for quite some time already...
VVV VVV VVV VVV VVV VVV



bigdogs said:


> When she goes out on during the week from 5-7ish *she is very dressed up*. She *goes there directly from her job.* So *skirt, heels and a nice blouse*. They all meet directly from work. *I am not home normally when she returns*. I teach classes until 9:30 on most weeknights. She is *normally either ready for bed or in bed when I get home*.


----------



## kristin2349

That is the thing Groundpounder, this thread is full of red flags that I think he drops on purpose. He knows what it sounds like. Then we point out the obvious, and his continued paranoia is justified in his head. It has been reinforced based on misleading info from his very skewed perspective. That gives him a gift wrapped excuse to not change a thing about himself, he can continue to accuse her.Lather, rinse, repeat...


----------



## turnera

What's her thread on SI called?


----------



## bigdogs

Her name on SI was lost65. I am not trying to leave things out or accuse her of anything. My post was about why the OM came too my house. Weeks later there is a post about someone killing the BS from the news. My fears don't seem so irrational.


----------



## BobSimmons

kristin2349 said:


> That is the thing Groundpounder, this thread is* full of red flags* that I think he *drops on purpose*. He knows what it sounds like. Then we point out the obvious, and his continued paranoia is justified in his head. It has been reinforced based on misleading info from his very skewed perspective. That gives him a gift wrapped excuse to not change a thing about himself, he can continue to accuse her.Lather, rinse, repeat...


I wouldn't know if it was purposeful or not but that description decribes nearly 100 % of the posts on CWI.

But couldn't agree more with you about bigdogs seems to like drama for drama's sake.


----------



## synthetic

Forgive me but what the hell is "SI"?


----------



## OldWolf57

Surviving Infidelity


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> Her name on SI was lost65. I am not trying to leave things out or accuse her of anything. My post was about why the OM came too my house. Weeks later there is a post about someone killing the BS from the news. My fears don't seem so irrational.


Yes your "fears" are irrational. First of all that thread was an OM that was killed BY A BS (who also happened to be an OM himself). If you really fear your now ex-friend you have done nothing to protect yourself and your wife. You opened your door and let him in.

You keep going round and round with this. Did it ever occur to you to just ask your ex-friend what he was doing there?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

bigdogs said:


> I think that things would have gone a lot differently had her father not been over. The funny thing is a few weeks before that I had told her I seen him in the lumber store and *waited until he left to go in*. _I told her I wonder what would happen if we ran into each other face to face_. *She called it. She said nothing would happen*.


Bingo. Right there.

You show her you are doing nothing, the doormat in extenso. She will have no respect for you, and rightfully so. 

Where is your sense of self respect??

Your lack of action when he came in the house is the same thing again. 

Turn in your black belt because you learned nothing.


----------



## Dogbert

See_Listen_Love said:


> Bingo. Right there.
> 
> You show her you are doing nothing, the doormat in extenso. She will have no respect for you, and rightfully so.
> 
> Where is your sense of self respect??
> 
> Your lack of action when he came in the house is the same thing again.
> 
> Turn in your black belt because you learned nothing.


So what would you suggest he should have done, within the law? Specifics, please.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

bigdogs said:


> Knowing where my wife was at the time the EA happened, I can see how his line was easy for her to fall for. Our marriage was falling apart, she was sick and recovering from multiple surgeries and alone. *I left her alone all the time because I didn't like to see her in pain and hurting*. I am not taking responsibility for what happened just saying that when she needed me the most I was not there for her. I will never know what could have happened if just one of the times she told me that we were in trouble and needed help if I had listened to her and done something about it.


A black belt is not about fighting but about character.

You leave her alone because you want to avoid pain and misery. Even at the cost of someone who is in trouble...and is your wife....

You need to look deep down into yourself and come to some renewal of your soul and spirit!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Dogbert said:


> So what would you suggest he should have done, within the law? Specifics, please.


His martial arts training, especially when having a black belt, in extreme when having a sixth degree black belt, should have made him the kind of person that has a certain personality.

I know a number of these persons, and they have a kind of friendly but iron field around them. No one will mess with them, because in all that relaxing behavior one look in their eyes will keep you from disrespecting them or be in their way.

He apparently did not get anything like that from his training.

So what should he have done? Never back down in the first place like not entering a shop where OM was, hiding in the car.....

The way I see it, if this guy was a real martial artist, he would have stood in the doorway, and without saying a word, OM would have stumbled on an excuse and got the hell out of the street....


----------



## kenmoore14217

OldWolf57 said:


> Surviving Infidelity


Part of quack "Phil's" empire


----------



## bandit.45

kristin2349 said:


> Because of the start of this thread and the huge glaring gaps in the complete story, Mrs. BigDogs is not getting a fair shake here guys.
> 
> I am normally as skeptical as the next BS, but I have read her threads on SI and her story is much different than what is being represented here.
> 
> If there is any danger here it is BigDogs neglecting to spend adequate time meeting his wife's emotional needs. His Asbergers is probably behind most of it. It is something to be worked on not an excuse. Martial Arts has probably done BigDogs a lot of good, he has not been able to moderate that and find a balance. Instead of enhancing his life it is causing much damage to his wife. He may lose her if he doesn't wake up and fix these issues.
> 
> His wife gave him plenty of warnings, I don't believe she will cheat on BigDogs. I think she will get tired of his single minded focus and leave. It is sad because I think she truly cares about and loves him.


One thing stands out to me. He says he doesn't know how to dance. He uses that as an excuse. 

Sorry I don't buy it Bigdogs. If you can learn to do a spinning back kick you can learn to dance. Hell you may even actually enjoy it.

Get thee to a Fred Astaire Dance studio. They are in every major city. Set up a date to the first lesson with your wife and take her! Don't tell her beforehand either! Do it!


----------



## jsmart

bandit.45 said:


> One thing stands out to me. He says he doesn't know how to dance. He uses that as an excuse.
> 
> Sorry I don't buy it Bigdogs. *If you can learn to do a spinning back kick you can learn to dance. Hell you may even actually enjoy it.*
> :iagree:
> 
> 
> *Get thee to a Fred Astaire Dance studio. They are in every major city. Set up a date to the first lesson with your wife and take her! Don't tell her beforehand either! Do it!
> 
> Excellent idea
> 
> *


I'm not understanding the OP's wife's need to be dancing / drinking every week. They're not teens/ college age kids. It's been decades since I've gone to a club dancing. If my wife wanted to go, it would only be with me and it sure wouldn't be every week or even every month. 

I used to be a clubbing fanatic myself but moved away from that scene by mid 20s, so I wouldn't be uncomfortable in one but I can understand a person who struggled with Aspergers feeling awkward in that scene. While I agree that he should try to do more things that may make him a little uncomfortable, including learning to dance, to meet his extroverted wife's personality half-way does that mean he should be dancing every week?


----------



## kristin2349

jsmart said:


> I'm not understanding the OP's wife's need to be dancing / drinking every week. They're not teens/ college age kids. It's been decades since I've gone to a club dancing. If my wife wanted to go, it would only be with me and it sure wouldn't be every week or even every month.
> 
> I used to be a clubbing fanatic myself but moved away from that scene by mid 20s, so I wouldn't be uncomfortable in one but I can understand a person who struggled with Aspergers feeling awkward in that scene. While I agree that he should try to do more things that may make him a little uncomfortable, including learning to dance, to meet his extroverted wife's personality half-way does that mean he should be dancing every week?


If her husband was spending adequate time with her and filling her need for social contact with other human beings it would be unreasonable. 

BUT he devotes all of his free time to Martial Arts. She has lots of interests including Martial Arts, but he only participates in what he likes. See the problem here? She has stated that she feels like he is in an "affair of sorts" with Martial Arts. She is like a Golf widow, what is she supposed to do sit alone and rot, they don't have kids. He is doing what pleases him, she should be able to do the same. Not my idea of a good marriage at all. But it is theirs nonetheless.


----------



## jsmart

kristin2349 said:


> If her husband was spending adequate time with her and filling her need for social contact with other human beings it would be unreasonable.
> 
> BUT he devotes all of his free time to Martial Arts. She has lots of interests including Martial Arts, but he only participates in what he likes. See the problem here? She has stated that she feels like he is in an "affair of sorts" with Martial Arts. She is like a Golf widow, what is she supposed to do sit alone and rot, they don't have kids. He is doing what pleases him, she should be able to do the same. Not my idea of a good marriage at all. But it is theirs nonetheless.


They've been married for quite a while and his wife must have known him for a while before they got married so she must have understood that he's an introverted person and didn't do well in social situations that didn't involve things that he is not into. 

To be honest I'm not sure how OP at 53 with mild Aspergers evolves into a person that is going to be socially comfortable in situations that involve dancing and drinking. He has to find other ways to be there emotionally for his wife. But when you have a 40 year old wife that's doing weekly GNO that make you uncomfortable how do you bridge the gap. He shouldn't be expected to be a 53 year old at the club nor should she have to tolerate a cold fish.


----------



## kristin2349

jsmart said:


> They've been married for quite a while and his wife must have known him for a while before they got married so she must have understood that he's an introverted person and didn't do well in social situations that didn't involve things that he is not into.
> 
> To be honest I'm not sure how OP at 53 with mild Aspergers evolves into a person that is going to be socially comfortable in situations that involve dancing and drinking. He has to find other ways to be there emotionally for his wife. But when you have a 40 year old wife that's doing weekly GNO that make you uncomfortable how do you bridge the gap. He shouldn't be expected to be a 53 year old at the club nor should she have to tolerate a cold fish.



I fully understand what you are saying. However he is not in any way indicating that he has a problem with her GNO's. She has indicated that she does have a problem with the amount of time he devotes to Martial Arts (including several vacation type trips a year alone). He didn't make the time to be with her during 3 surgeries! Not even to drive her there. I do think that she would gladly give up GNO's to spend time with BigDogs. 

I hope he is able to find a way to realize he needs to work with his wife and find a balance that works for both of them, not just him.


----------



## bigdogs

I do not like drama. I don't like conflict. I have a tendency to close down if personal conflict happens. This is due to my aspergers and poor coping skills. Just because I am a martial artist does not mean the I believe in beating people up. I don't. A true martial artist lives the tenets. Courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control and indomitable spirit. I fail in some of these everyday but I am striving to achieve them. I know that I have not been even close to the best husband that I could be. I know that I am lucky that this woman loves me. I know that she could do so much better than I am. She could find someone younger, betterlooking, like to dance, makes more money. She could have more. I am insecure in this way. I let my own thoughts beat me down where my wife is concerned.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bigdogs said:


> A true martial artist lives the tenets. Courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control and indomitable spirit.


No, this is what you believe and follow in your martial arts pursuit. This is just one aspect of martial arts and depending on the person, the art and the circumstances your order and belief doesn't apply to everyone. I will not derail your thread, but will say many of the greats were really hypocrites if we believe this statement.


----------



## DoneWithHurting

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, this is what you believe and follow in your martial arts pursuit. This is just one aspect of martial arts and depending on the person, the art and the circumstances your order and belief doesn't apply to everyone. I will not derail your thread, but will say many of the greats were really hypocrites if we believe this statement.


A true martial artist goes out into the world with compassion in a fearless manor.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Ugh... I'm going to the barn. .


----------



## GusPolinski

You can live the tenets of _*martial arts*_ w/o become so totally absorbed w/ it that you neglect (as you apparently have) your *marital arts* skills.

See what I did there?


----------



## BookOfJob

bigdogs said:


> I know that I have not been even close to the best husband that I could be. *I know that I am lucky that this woman loves me.* I know that she could do so much better than I am. She could find someone younger, betterlooking, like to dance, makes more money. She could have more. I am insecure in this way. I let my own thoughts beat me down where my wife is concerned.


This is where your homework is. The cure-all mantra I give people is to step up their game, to man up. Your marriage depends on it.

The bolded part is where you are not framing the whole thing correctly. You two need to be equal to create a good balance.


----------



## bandit.45

Bruce Lee was a very good dancer. He was a cha cha cha dance champion in Hong Kong as a young man and even gave lessons. When he was developing Jeet Kun Do, he incorporated dance into his martial arts.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

He was also a high school boxing champion. He incorporated many things into JKD including Judo, boxing wing chun, wrestling and TKD.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> I know that she could do so much better than I am. She could find someone younger, betterlooking, like to dance, makes more money. She could have more. I am insecure in this way. I let my own thoughts beat me down where my wife is concerned


*You know what you have to do to get yourself better and to meet your wife’s needs and bring her close to you. Get your AZZ in gear and DO THEM! No more excuses (my aspersers and poor coping skills) or talking but 100% ACTIONS.

Women are not attracted to men that are insecure and beat themselves down. Some people can only put up with that for a little while before they move on.*


----------



## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> Bruce Lee was a very good dancer. He was a cha cha cha dance champion in Hong Kong as a young man and even gave lessons. When he was developing Jeet Kun Do, he incorporated dance into his martial arts.


Took ballet as a child as well as martial arts. I never placed less than third in any competition and never lost a fight.

You need balance my friend.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

One should extend the martial arts way of practicing to the practice of working on relations. It is work, it is hard, it takes time. But over time just showing up and doing the work will pay out.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yep, Pat Parelli applied one of his influences in relationships with horses was his time spent in martial arts. Had a big impact on me though I never took martial arts directly. And I am considering starting ballet to strengthen my balance.


----------



## bandit.45

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Unfortunately he smoked a huge blunt and beat himself to death. Very sad


Yeah. That Taiwanese weed is some strong sh!zz...


----------



## bandit.45

ConanHub said:


> Took ballet as a child as well as martial arts. I never placed less than third in any competition and never lost a fight.
> 
> You need balance my friend.


"Be like water...."


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yep, Pat Parelli applied one of his influences in relationships with horses was his time spent in martial arts. Had a big impact on me though I never took martial arts directly. And I am considering starting ballet to strengthen my balance.


There is a website somewhere for race jockies that has training videos that show how to do stationary saddle exercises to build your leg strength and balance. If I find it I'll pass on the address to you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> There is a website somewhere for race jockies that has training videos that show how to do stationary saddle exercises to build your leg strength and balance. If I find it I'll pass on the address to you.


Cool! Thanks!


----------



## CantePe

A great martial artist once said...

In Kung Fu there are only two things:

Vertical and Horizontal.

This statement applies to all things in life not just Kung fu ... Ip Man was a genius.


----------



## bigdogs

When I was driving home from class last night I noticed the OM vehicle parked about two blocks down from my house. He has very distinctive decals, so I could not be mistaken. Right away my mind starts racing again. I just want to be able to drive down my street without having a minor meltdown. I drove around the block and up the alleys to see if I could see anything I didn't after about 10 minutes his vehicle was gone. I contacted with his wife. She told me that they are back together at least for now. She said he was in town getting an apartment ready for the summer. Seriously, you can see my house from there. Why, Just Why..

I didn't want to say anything to my wife because she is frustrated with me anyway because on Tuesday night she told me she was taking off work early on Wednesday to meet the farrier. They were having trouble trimming the almost blind horse. I made a really sarcastic comment because the OM in her EA was a farrier. I said "Oh tell OM I said hi" Then I said I am just kidding, you better have found a new trimmer. She just shook her head and walked out of the room and was really quiet for the rest of the night. I knew I hurt her feelings. I tried to apologize. Wednesday afternoon her horse spooked badly and ran right over top of her. She said the farrier was inexperienced with special needs horses and it was a freak accident and could have happened to anyone, a broken collarbone and a concussion later. She could have been killed, or even more seriously hurt so I told her she needed to sell that horse. What good is a blind in one eyed and nearly blind in the other horse. Especially one that size. Well, needless to say world war three ensued.

So now I have a ticked off wife and have to worry about why the OM is down the block. UGH!!!

Sorry for the ramble just trying to process.


----------



## turnera

Her feelings DESERVE to be hurt. Stop worrying about upsetting her. She's a grownup; she can accept the consequences her actions wrought.


----------



## OnTheRocks

So she's into horses... I grew up riding horses myself. They are easily and by far the most entitled group of folks I've ever been around.


----------



## bigdogs

turnera said:


> Her feelings DESERVE to be hurt. Stop worrying about upsetting her. She's a grownup; she can accept the consequences her actions wrought.


She accepted responsibility for what she has done. Over and Over again. Her feelings do not deserve to be hurt over and over again because I am to stubborn to let things go. I am trying to be a better man and husband and I have to start but not lashing out whenever I feel a little bit of jealousy or anger. I am pushing her right out the door with it. I posted on here hoping that maybe I can get it out of my system and not open mouth and insert foot.


----------



## imjustwatching

you are to soft my friend


----------



## carmen ohio

bigdogs said:


> When I was driving home from class last night I noticed the OM vehicle parked about two blocks down from my house. He has very distinctive decals, so I could not be mistaken. Right away my mind starts racing again. I just want to be able to drive down my street without having a minor meltdown. I drove around the block and up the alleys to see if I could see anything I didn't after about 10 minutes his vehicle was gone. I contacted with his wife. She told me that they are back together at least for now. She said he was in town getting an apartment ready for the summer. Seriously, you can see my house from there. Why, Just Why..
> 
> . . .


bigdogs, I forget, does the OMW know about the affair and is she aware that her WH has chosen an apartment within seeing distance of yours? If the answer to the first question is no, time to tell her, and then time to tell her about the proximity issue.


----------



## bigdogs

carmen ohio said:


> bigdogs, I forget, does the OMW know about the affair and is she aware that her WH has chosen an apartment within seeing distance of yours? If the answer to the first question is no, time to tell her, and then time to tell her about the proximity issue.


It was not a PA strictly EA. Yes, his wife knows she is the one who told me about it. She is aware of apartments location. When he will be staying in town she stated that he will have someone keeping an very close eye on his.

I know that my wife will not go there. I trust that. This is just my own insecurities messing with my head.


----------



## soccermom2three

There is a lot of backstory to read before calling the OP "soft".


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> It was not a PA strictly EA. Yes, his wife knows she is the one who told me about it. She is aware of apartments location. When he will be staying in town she stated that he will have someone keeping an very close eye on his.
> 
> I know that my wife will not go there. I trust that. This is just my own insecurities messing with my head.



Why do you keep talking to his wife when she lied to you repeatedly? 

Your insecurities messing with your head aren't going to go away until you do the work to address them in therapy and marriage counseling. How much longer is your wife going to put up with the jabs over what she did? Does she jab back at you over your betrayal?

The OM is not your problem and you know this, he is just a convenient diversion so you can avoid doing the work.


----------



## Clay2013

I have to agree with Tunera. Things don't just go away. Your still hurt and if her feelings get hurt in the process then that is just the way it is. She is the one that choice this path. Sure you have to always be think about what you say but to just discount the pain your going through especially when the OM is near your house is just bs. 

I would let her just deal with her anger and when she brought it up I would just reminder you were faithful to her and leave it at that. 

Clay


----------



## carmen ohio

kristin2349 said:


> Why do you keep talking to his wife when she lied to you repeatedly?
> 
> *Your insecurities messing with your head aren't going to go away until you do the work to address them in therapy and marriage counseling. How much longer is your wife going to put up with the jabs over what she did?* Does she jab back at you over your betrayal?
> 
> *The OM is not your problem and you know this, he is just a convenient diversion so you can avoid doing the work.*


kristin2349,

Who do you think is responsible for the OP's insecurities, the OP?

Are you saying the OP's task now is to shut up about his fWW's EA, get some counseling and then just get over it?

Do you think it unreasonable for him to have concerns about the OM being in close proximity to his fWW?

You're entitled to your opinion but, I can assure you, it is definitely out of the mainstream on TAMCWI and the OP would not be doing himself any favors if he were to take your advice.

***

bigdogs, it's good that you're concerned about not coming down to hard on your fWW but, as turnera and Clay2013 have indicated, part of her job is to understand and accept the fact that you will get upset from time to time. It's part of _doing the heavy lifting._


----------



## kristin2349

carmen ohio said:


> kristin2349,
> 
> Who do you think is responsible for the OP's insecurities, the OP?
> 
> Are you saying the OP's task now is to shut up about his fWW's EA, get some counseling and then just get over it?
> 
> Do you think it unreasonable for him to have concerns about the OM being in close proximity to his fWW?
> 
> You're entitled to your opinion but, I can assure you, it is definitely out of the mainstream on TAMCWI and the OP would not be doing himself any favors if he were to take your advice.
> 
> ***
> 
> bigdogs, it's good that you're concerned about not coming down to hard on your fWW but, as turnera and Clay2013 have indicated, part of her job is to understand and accept the fact that you will get upset from time to time. It's part of _doing the heavy lifting._


There is a LOT of back story here Carmen, I am a BS. I am aware of mainstream TAM/CWI schools of thought. If this were a typical situation I would say that Turnera and Clay2013 (who always give good advice) were spot on. 

The OP also betrayed his wife, in a much bigger way than she did him, IMO. Go back to about page 21 of this misleading thread and decide for yourself. Even then there is much more to this story, I stand by my advice.


----------



## carmen ohio

kristin2349 said:


> There is a LOT of back story here Carmen, I am a BS. I am aware of mainstream TAM/CWI schools of thought. If this were a typical situation I would say that Turnera and Clay2013 (who always give good advice) were spot on.
> 
> The OP also betrayed his wife, in a much bigger way than she did him, IMO. Go back to about page 21 of this misleading thread and decide for yourself. Even then there is much more to this story, I stand by my advice.


I think you're referring to the OP post #292. I agree that the OP was out of line for the way he treated his wife after he discovered her EA.

But it doesn't it change the fact that she had an EA, that he is going to trigger from time-to-time and -- if she wants to reconcile -- she is going to have to put with that, and that it is fair for him to be concerned about the OM living so close.


----------



## turnera

carmen ohio said:


> kristin2349,
> 
> Who do you think is responsible for the OP's insecurities, the OP?


Quite possibly, yes. Not for the cheating, but for everything else? QUITE possible. Our insecurities are what we learn in our FOO and childhood, and in most cases it stays with us for the rest of our lives.

So if he married her, for instance, thinking guys would never stop hitting on her cos she's such a goddess and he's just a dweeb, and how he's lucky she even LOOKED at him, and getting snarky every time a guy even talks to her, yeah, that would be on HIM.


----------



## Chaparral

Bigdog, how much has your wife had to work to keep your businesses afloat? Do you think any other woman would put up with the way you've treated her?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

kristin2349 said:


> Why do you keep talking to his wife when she lied to you repeatedly?


Honestly? He doesn't believe his own words.


----------



## bigdogs

My wife worked hard to keep my business open. She dropped out of school to take another job to help. At times she was working three. After Dday she started counseling twice a week and working really hard to save our marriage I wanted no part of it at that time. She has told me now that things did not start to change for the better with us until she let go and stopped doing the work for the marriage and started doing the work for herself. She quit her second job and went back to school to finish her nursing degree. She didn't at the time even tell me she was doing that because she had to focus on herself. This is when I realized I may lose her if I didn't start working on it. We are doing marriage counseling once a month now. 

I contacted the OBS because she is the only number I knew and I felt panicked. I didn't want to share my insecurity with my wife fearing she would take that as another jab. Kristen is right how much can I expect her to take before she gives up on me. He is not going to be in town every night. Just on his night off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Who has the broken collarbone and concussion?


----------



## bigdogs

alte Dame said:


> Who has the broken collarbone and concussion?


My wife does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

With the layers of issues here, I'm not sure MC once a month is enough. Who chose that frequency and why?


----------



## bigdogs

Blossom Leigh said:


> With the layers of issues here, I'm not sure MC once a month is enough. Who chose that frequency and why?


Between her clinicals and my teaching schedule that is all we can do right now. I know we need more she does IC once a week now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

bigdogs said:


> So now I have a ticked off wife and have to worry about why the OM is down the block. UGH!!!


No, bigdogs, time to get your priorities straight.

You have to worry about taking care of your wife, who has a broken collarbone and concussion from an accident that could have killed her.


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> It was not a PA strictly EA. Yes, his wife knows she is the one who told me about it. She is aware of apartments location. When he will be staying in town she stated that he will have someone keeping an very close eye on his.
> 
> I know that my wife will not go there. I trust that. This is just my own insecurities messing with my head.


Unless you live in a very.... very .....very..... small town, he just happens to get an appartment a stones throw from you...........................


----------



## bigdogs

G.J. said:


> Unless you live in a very.... very .....very..... small town, he just happens to get an appartment a stones throw from you...........................


We do live in a very small town. The duplex is one his wife's business has had for years, for interns to stay in. They also have one in a neighboring town. They rent one out and use the other one for interns in the summer months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

Thank you for informing us as we needed to understand why he was using an apartment so close

Other questions now would be 

1.why does he need to use it

2.why hasn't he before now?

3.Also do you know if he has had to stay away from home before for his job?


----------



## bigdogs

G.J. said:


> Thank you for informing us as we needed to understand why he was using an apartment so close
> 
> Other questions now would be
> 
> 1.why does he need to use it
> 
> 2.why hasn't he before now?
> 
> 3.Also do you know if he has had to stay away from home before for his job?


The nature of their business requires one of them be on premises 24/7 unless the other partner is in town. They have interns but they can not be left alone. They take turns having a night away. They each get one night away a week is how it used to work. That is how he managed to fool around with many of her friends. 

He has stayed there apparently before. When his wife and he were living separately he stayed in the neighboring town because interns were using the one here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

kristin2349 said:


> There is a LOT of back story here Carmen, I am a BS. I am aware of mainstream TAM/CWI schools of thought. If this were a typical situation I would say that Turnera and Clay2013 (who always give good advice) were spot on.
> 
> The OP also betrayed his wife, in a much bigger way than she did him, IMO. Go back to about page 21 of this misleading thread and decide for yourself. Even then there is much more to this story, I stand by my advice.





carmen ohio said:


> I think you're referring to the OP post #292. I agree that the OP was out of line for the way he treated his wife after he discovered her EA.
> 
> But it doesn't it change the fact that she had an EA, that he is going to trigger from time-to-time and -- if she wants to reconcile -- she is going to have to put with that, and that it is fair for him to be concerned about the OM living so close.





bigdogs said:


> My wife worked hard to keep my business open. She dropped out of school to take another job to help. At times she was working three. After Dday she started counseling twice a week and working really hard to save our marriage I wanted no part of it at that time. She has told me now that things did not start to change for the better with us until she let go and stopped doing the work for the marriage and started doing the work for herself. She quit her second job and went back to school to finish her nursing degree. She didn't at the time even tell me she was doing that because she had to focus on herself. This is when I realized I may lose her if I didn't start working on it. We are doing marriage counseling once a month now.
> 
> I contacted the OBS because she is the only number I knew and I felt panicked. I didn't want to share my insecurity with my wife fearing she would take that as another jab. *Kristen is right how much can I expect her to take before she gives up on me.* He is not going to be in town every night. Just on his night off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


kristen,

Seeing what the OP has to say about it and reflecting on what you said, I've pretty much come around to your way of thinking -- bigdogs needs to put his marriage first and pay a lot more attention to his wife's needs.

Like alte Dame said, right now that means focusing on helping his wife recover from her accident.

Question for bigdogs -- on your post #393, you seemed surprised when you discovered that the OM was in your neighborhood but, in your post #418, you seemed to know all about the OM's reason for being there. Why is that?


----------



## G.J.

bigdogs said:


> I knew the whole time she was talking to him, that she was talking to him. She didn't lie when I asked her who she was texting or *visiting with*. .


Reading back I only just saw this, so she actually went round his house/apartment alone or was his wife *always* present and if she was how could they have talked about his wife being the same as you financially etc and his wife would have seen in the way they spoke a bond forming so alone time must have happened ?


----------



## bigdogs

G.J. said:


> Reading back I only just saw this, so she actually went round his house/apartment alone or was his wife *always* present and if she was how could they have talked about his wife being the same as you financially etc and his wife would have seen in the way they spoke a bond forming so alone time must have happened ?


They were friends. She seen him where they boarded the horses and she also volunteered at their business so she spent time with him there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigdogs

carmen ohio said:


> kristen,
> 
> Seeing what the OP has to say about it and reflecting on what you said, I've pretty much come around to your way of thinking -- bigdogs needs to put his marriage first and pay a lot more attention to his wife's needs.
> 
> Like alte Dame said, right now that means focusing on helping his wife recover from her accident.
> 
> Question for bigdogs -- on your post #393, you seemed surprised when you discovered that the OM was in your neighborhood but, in your post #418, you seemed to know all about the OM's reason for being there. Why is that?


I was very surprised to see him in the neighborhood. I didn't think his wife would ever let him anywhere near my wife again. I know why he was there because I spoke to his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Bigdogs, do you self protect yourself from your wifes needs? When her life gets stressed, do you shut down?


----------



## kristin2349

bigdogs said:


> They were friends. She seen him where they boarded the horses and she also volunteered at their business so she spent time with him there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BigDogs, you are also neglecting to mention that you yourself asked your friend (the OM) to help your wife, doing things for her that you did not want to help her with. You allowed him into your marriage, and at the time you stated you welcomed it, isn't that correct? 

You stating that your schedule, due to teaching Martial Arts classes does not allow for more frequent MC shows your priorities are still wrong. Your wife begged you for a full year to go to MC and you refused (prior to her EA and decision to leave). You keep proving over and over that she is not important. Just as her being hospitalized was not important enough for you to put her first and be there. Your marriage is still vulnerable. I don't think she will ever cheat on you, but I do think she might leave and I would not blame her at all. Sorry to sound harsh, sometimes the truth just is.

Your problem is not the OM. If your marriage fails, your wife will be able to say she tried everything she could to save it. Can you say the same?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

kristin2349 said:


> BigDogs, you are also neglecting to mention that you yourself asked your friend (the OM) to help your wife, doing things for her that you did not want to help her with. You allowed him into your marriage, and at the time you stated you welcomed it, isn't that correct?
> 
> You stating that your schedule, due to teaching Martial Arts classes does not allow for more frequent MC shows your priorities are still wrong. Your wife begged you for a full year to go to MC and you refused (prior to her EA and decision to leave). You keep proving over and over that she is not important. Just as her being hospitalized was not important enough for you to put her first and be there. Your marriage is still vulnerable. I don't think she will ever cheat on you, but I do think she might leave and I would not blame her at all. Sorry to sound harsh, sometimes the truth just is.
> 
> Your problem is not the OM. If your marriage fails, your wife will be able to say she tried everything she could to save it. Can you say the same?


Kristin, why the intensity. He has mentioned those things.


----------



## kristin2349

Blossom Leigh said:


> Kristin, why he intensity. He has mentioned those things.


He may mention them Blossom, but it takes a while for him to do so. It comes across as manipulative, asking for help but not presenting the situation clearly. I didn't think I was being particularly intense here, just honest.

I'm honest and blunt, he is looking for help on a public forum, he isn't going to get kid glove advice wrapped in cotton candy and rainbows from everyone. He can ignore my advice or ask me to leave. I think he has a better chance than most at saving his marriage if he gets his head in the right place.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

kristin2349 said:


> He may mention them Blossom, but it takes a while for him to do so. It comes across as manipulative, asking for help but not presenting the situation clearly. I didn't think I was being particularly intense here, just honest.
> 
> I'm honest and blunt, he is looking for help on a public forum, he isn't going to get kid glove advice wrapped in cotton candy and rainbows from everyone. He can ignore my advice or ask me to leave. I think he has a better chance than most at saving his marriage if he gets his head in the right place.


Sometimes I think he is just short and to the point.

He has said he needs to focus on her.


----------



## kristin2349

Blossom Leigh said:


> Sometimes I think he is just short and to the point.
> 
> He has said he needs to focus on her.



Yes he has said that. But I pay attention to what people do, not what they say. I think it is time for real action here. If you look at the time table I would say it is long overdue. A marriage that is in critical condition needs serious attention or it is going to die. Most people wake up too late. I think they both love each other, it is fixable if they do the work.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

kristin2349 said:


> Yes he has said that. But I pay attention to what people do, not what they say. I think it is time for real action here. If you look at the time table I would say it is long overdue. A marriage that is in critical condition needs serious attention or it is going to die. Most people wake up too late. I think they both love each other, it is fixable if they do the work.


Its why I'm asking questions to move forward instead of raking him over the coals.... Again.

And with that said bigdogs... There is a possibility here I want you to consider. Usually when someone devotes so much time and effort to something to the degree they become deceptive about money that belongs to their loved ones and they themselves become missing in action when their loved ones are truly in need could be labeled an addict who is pretty far into their addiction. It may be time to consider if there is an addictive pattern of behavior that needs treatment here for you with your martial arts. One session of MC for the two of you isn't going to come close to being enough for yall. There are serious layers here on both sides.

Boundary issues
Dishonesty
Resentment
Infidelity (emotionally and financially)
Potential addictive pattern of behavior

Plus the uniqueness and rich complexities of your Aspergers.

Are you familiar with Temple Grandin? How long have you know you are on the spectrum? I think it would take a professional in Aspergers and addiction to help you sort out what is the addictive behavior and what your Aspergers.


----------



## adriana

bigdogs said:


> I didn't want to say anything to my wife because she is frustrated with me anyway because on Tuesday night she told me she was taking off work early on Wednesday to meet the farrier. They were having trouble trimming the almost blind horse. I made a really sarcastic comment because the OM in her EA was a farrier. I said "Oh tell OM I said hi" Then I said I am just kidding, you better have found a new trimmer. She just shook her head and walked out of the room and was really quiet for the rest of the night. *I knew I hurt her feelings*.



Well, isn't hurting her feelings is the only thing you excel in?

I find it truly amazing that your Asperger disorder never seems to be a problem when it comes to acting like an abusive jerk toward her. Being a royal a$$hole comes naturally to you.... you just always know what to do. 

It's only when something constructive is expected from you, and you fail misarably like often the case, you conveniently start screaming _Aspergers_ and demand empathy for yourself.

I hope that your poor wife finally wakes up and files for a divorce because you don't deserve her.


----------



## bigdogs

Blossom Leigh said:


> Its why I'm asking questions to move forward instead of raking him over the coals.... Again.
> 
> And with that said bigdogs... There is a possibility here I want you to consider. Usually when someone devotes so much time and effort to something to the degree they become deceptive about money that belongs to their loved ones and they themselves become missing in action when their loved ones are truly in need could be labeled an addict who is pretty far into their addiction. It may be time to consider if there is an addictive pattern of behavior that needs treatment here for you with your martial arts. One session of MC for the two of you isn't going to come close to being enough for yall. There are serious layers here on both sides.
> 
> Boundary issues
> Dishonesty
> Resentment
> Infidelity (emotionally and financially)
> Potential addictive pattern of behavior
> 
> Plus the uniqueness and rich complexities of your Aspergers.
> 
> Are you familiar with Temple Grandin? How long have you know you are on the spectrum? I think it would take a professional in Aspergers and addiction to help you sort out what is the addictive behavior and what your Aspergers.


Sorry for the short answers over the weekend. Our home computer is on the fritz and I am not good using my phone for long messages.

I have only know about my Aspergers and OCD tendencies in the last few years. I have just started medication a few months ago and I think that I have made very good progress. I really want to be able to meet her needs but sometimes it feels like there is something blocking that from happening. Stubbornness, pride, probably. I am trying to put her first. When she tells me something that she needs, I am trying to focus on that. I am wearing my wedding ring except to work, I built her the garden that she wanted this weekend. Weeded her rose garden. I had breakfast with her everyday over the weekend. I was home from my weekend job at 6 pm to have dinner with her and our niece. I went with her to work with her horses yesterday.

I am working on changing things. I know that I am going to say stupid things because I don't think about what comes out of my mouth all the time. I just blurt things out. I have been this way for 53 years. I am not going to change overnight, even as much as I want to. I don't want to start over. I love my wife and I know that I can do this.


----------



## turnera

Did you ever read that book I recommended, the one written by a husband with Aspergers?


----------



## carmen ohio

adriana said:


> Well, isn't hurting her feelings is the only thing you excel in?
> 
> I find it truly amazing that your Asperger disorder never seems to be a problem when it comes to acting like an abusive jerk toward her. Being a royal a$$hole comes naturally to you.... you just always know what to do.
> 
> It's only when something constructive is expected from you, and you fail misarably like often the case, you conveniently start screaming _Aspergers_ and demand empathy for yourself.
> 
> I hope that your poor wife finally wakes up and files for a divorce because you don't deserve her.


The OP has been forthright in admitting his problems and taking responsibility for his failures. He deserves our help, not thoughtless condemnation.

Comments like this are uncalled for and are an embarrassment to people who post them.


----------



## carmen ohio

bigdogs, are you OK?


----------



## bigdogs

carmen ohio said:


> bigdogs, are you OK?


I am fine! Just really busy all of a sudden. Our niece graduated over the weekend and all the planning that goes into that. Not enough hours in the day. 
Still trying to find a way out of the lease for my failing business. I still have six months left on it. I'm open to ideas. My wife is right. Who signs a two and a half year lease on a business that has lost money for 5 years straight. It is still a point of friction with us.
I am wearing my wedding ring except to work.


----------



## bigdogs

And we have stepped up counseling to twice a month for the next month.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bigdogs said:


> And we have stepped up counseling to twice a month for the next month.




For the many layers of your collective issues I recommend six months of twice a month at least. Once a week would be ideal, but twice a month is at least better than nothing, but one month of twice a month won't be enough.


----------



## bigdogs

Blossom Leigh said:


> For the many layers of your collective issues I recommend six months of twice a month at least. Once a week would be ideal, but twice a month is at least better than nothing, but one month of twice a month won't be enough.


It would be nice but with our schedules not possible. Also with our money issues.


----------



## turnera

Can you sublease your place?


----------



## bigdogs

turnera said:


> Can you sublease your place?


I sublet from the main tenant. I have tried to find someone to take my place. The hours and rules the main leaser has have made it pretty much impossible. My wife keeps telling me to let him sue us. That is why we have business liability insurance. I just don't know. I do know that we have nothing left to keep paying this. I have to figure this out because I can feel her becoming distant again, spending more time away from the house.


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## turnera

Spend the $200 for a lawyer consult on it.


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## carmen ohio

bigdogs said:


> I am fine! Just really busy all of a sudden. Our niece graduated over the weekend and all the planning that goes into that. Not enough hours in the day.
> Still trying to find a way out of the lease for my failing business. I still have six months left on it. I'm open to ideas. *My wife is right. Who signs a two and a half year lease on a business that has lost money for 5 years straight. It is still a point of friction with us.*
> I am wearing my wedding ring except to work.


How to turn the "point of friction" into a marriage strengthening episode:

The next time it comes up, say to your wife, "Honey, you are right. That was a real bone-headed move on my part that is not going to happen again because, the next time I have to make a decision like that, I'm going to get your advice first. From now on, I make no major business decisions without getting your input." Then, follow through with your promise.

Truth be told, bigdogs, all marriages are better off if both spouses make it a rule not to commit to anything major (financial commitments, expensive purchases, changes to appearance, taking on new hobbies or time-consuming obligations, etc.) before speaking to the other. Not only does it avoid 'I told you so' issues, it strengthens the sense that the marriage partners are a team.


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## turnera

Or turn it into something else, something temporary, until the lease is up. Resale shop, ice cream shop, artists' workshop, whatever. Just make SOME money out of it.


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## bigdogs

turnera said:


> Or turn it into something else, something temporary, until the lease is up. Resale shop, ice cream shop, artists' workshop, whatever. Just make SOME money out of it.


I have been advertising it trying to find takers. The man I sublease from has also told me he would try, but as my wife pointed out he has not put out one craigslist ad or anything. The rules that he has for the space has made it impossible for me to find anyone else. We share the space. We each get it for period of time during the day. We can't bring in merchandise because he don't like clutter. We can't rent out to anyone that would want to wear shoes on the premises because he will not allow shows past the front door. He does not even allow us to have our equipment there. When I first moved in he let me but gradually started telling me I needed to get it out of their it didn't go with his vibe. So here I am paying almost $2000 a month for a space I get to use very little and can't it make my own in anyway. I told him that we were not making it. He told me he would start looking. I am frustrated that he has not in two months.


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## 3putt

carmen ohio said:


> How to turn the "point of friction" into a marriage strengthening episode:
> 
> The next time it comes up, say to your wife, "Honey, you are right. That was a real bone-headed move on my part that is not going to happen again because, the next time I have to make a decision like that, I'm going to get your advice first. From now on, I make no major business decisions without getting your input." Then, follow through with your promise.
> 
> Truth be told, bigdogs, all marriages are better off if both spouses make it a rule not to commit to anything major (financial commitments, expensive purchases, changes to appearance, taking on new hobbies or time-consuming obligations, etc.) before speaking to the other. Not only does it avoid 'I told you so' issues, it strengthens the sense that the marriage partners are a team.


The Policy of Joint Agreement


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