# Sexless marriage, why does the refuser care if you find action other places?



## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?

When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.

Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

would you play a game in which the game was stacked against you or would you walk away? I want you think about your marriage as a game (aka game theory), that may sound harsh but bear with me for a minute. your wife is your opponent her goal is to have as much control as possible, she is clearly has started off slowly very slowly weening sex from you over time, then moved to another room, and now controls even your actions outside of the marriage. Now think about your actions and reactions you have done at every one of her moves. complained, got angry frustrated but never once leaving the table, never once cheating....you can now see the that the ONLY for this game to end is either you walk away from this marriage or she dies (crude but truthful). The only way for this game to change now is your next move, she is betting you will not move, because of past behavior. You want her to change but she will not (no incentive to change), and she is ready to call you a cheater and divorce you if you go outside for sex. what you may want to consider is what she wants and needs and if you can control any of that? perhaps for example if you are the main bread winner is to control the flow of money...or control other aspects, this may not change her mind on sex but it give you negotiation tactics, but you my friend are playing with an empty hand, against the house.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?
> 
> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.
> 
> Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


You have showed her this is fine with you as you have stayed. Live your life to the fullest and be happy = loose half your stuff and share custody of your kid. You're going to say you prefer seeing you kid every day but what are you teaching your kid? That it is normal for a married couple to be in a platonic relationship, that will be their frame of reference for normal, in your mind is that going to lead them to a happy life? You are not doing yourself or your child any favors staying in this marriage. 

Why does your wife not wanting you getting sex outside of marriage even though she won't have sex with you? Because you have proven to be too weak to do anything about it. You're lying in the bed you made. As many seem to do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?
> 
> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.
> 
> Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


You are never going to figure it out, why try. Just divorce and move on.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

After this many years of putting up with it you deserve whatever misery you live in. Your a puppet on a string and the only thing in your pants she wants is your wallet.

Why should she change? Your obviously not going to do anything about it.

She just knows how to play the game better. Women know how to play the long game better than men most of the time..... at least with dudes that don’t respect themselves that is.

The wolf cares not what the sheep wants.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Relationships are dynamic. Just when you think you've been clear about offering only NSA sex to someone, that person may accuse you of leading them on. You yourself may want to expand the relationship with your FB. Your wife knows these things are possible and has wisely prevented you from doing it. 

when you are married and faithful, there is nothing wrong with requiring a sex life with that person. It does mean that you will have to divorce and start again.


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## Shutterbug2244 (Mar 18, 2021)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?
> 
> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.
> 
> Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


 It takes 2 people to make a marriage work. Take a day and time to have a sit down with her or go somewhere peaceful where the two of you can be alone to have a real discussion like the beach or the park etc. Tell her your concerns and come from a place of love. Ask her what’s been going on in her mind and what’s she’s been thinking about. Ask her what can you do to help her and ask her if she’s happy. Some people hold out on sex because they feel resentment towards their spouse. Maybe there is someone else? Maybe she has depression? Your child is observing your day to day behavior and he or she needs to have 2 parents who can function and are happy. I say make a list of what you want to discuss and truly listen to what she has to say.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> You are never going to figure it out, why try. Just divorce and move on.


Move on to what? It will be more of the same. 6-10 years of marriage without intimacy doesn't happen without cooperation of both parties. If you can tolerate 6-10 years of a sexless marriage, do you go a year or two in the next relationship, thinking you haven't given it enough time?

As far as whether the partner guarding their loins would or wouldn't mind if you sought sex elsewhere, I think that varies. Some spouses can completely separate sex from everything else in the marriage, and believe that "their" marriage is wonderful. No real issues.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe because they think if sex isn’t important to them then it shouldn’t be important to you either.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

OP, you're not stupid. You know your choices are very limited. A) you stay in your current scenario and you remain in a sexless, affectionless, "roommate" type marriage; B) you break your vows and have an extramarital affair, live a second "secret life" and pray she never finds out; C) you sit her down and explain that this was not what you signed up for and that if it does not change, you will divorce her and move on with somebody else who will actually love you and have a thriving sexual relationship with you. And you ARE NOT a bad guy for wanting and saying as much! 

I can assure you that she is not stupid either and she knows that what she is doing is not only not fair, but cruel. If your staying in this static situation is purely out of fear of her getting half of everything, including 50% custody, then you better stock up on lube and porn. Your life is passing you by. If Mrs. Rushwater treated me this way, I would sit her down and tell her flat out "I love you and want to have a sexual relationship with you. If that is not possible, I WILL DIVORCE YOU and go find someone who will share that with me and you can live the remainder of your life as a nun". A healthy sex life is vital to a loving, strong, vibrant and lengthy marriage. Unless, she became impotent from an old war wound, there is no viable excuse. But you have to have the courage to call her out on it. And I affirm what others have said preceding me: Your children are watching. Do you want them to suffer the same consequences as you? Because, without even realizing it, you are imprinting on their psyche that your situation is all normal and the standard for all marriages. Good luck, my friend!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?
> 
> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.
> 
> Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


At this point I would say to get a divorce lawyer and start the ball rolling. Find out what you need to do to not get shafted. You've gone this long so you can wait a while longer till your lawyer tells you that you are at a point when you can start seeing other people again.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

There is not much to say here. What your spouse is doing to you is cruel. You have gone this long, resist the temptation to cheat as that only makes you culpable. Don't give her that satisfaction. Get an attorney and move toward finding a healthy relationship and leave her to her own misery.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

This would have been a good question to ask 6-10 years ago. After this long of a sexless marriage, there’s nothing to save here.

Normally I’m an advocate of fixing yourself and going from there. Becoming a better, more attractive man with options- and then seeing if your wife comes around (they often do), and then decide if you still want her.
But in your case, after 6-10 years without sex, just divorce now and work on yourself for the next year. The kind of man who tolerates a sexless marriage for this long needs a lot of work.


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

Why does the refused stay with the refuser? I mean, if it were temporary, sure, things can change. But after this long?

She even moved into another room *years ago. *Why are you still there? Why are you bothered about it all of the sudden? Did something change?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sokillme said:


> You are never going to figure it out, why try. Just divorce and move on.


He doesn't want to give his wife half of the house, etc... that's why he doesn't divorce her. And they have a kid. It's easier to stay and find himself a "girlfriend"...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, you're operating on the premise that she would be upset if you got a girlfriend. Maybe, she wouldn't be. She might prefer that over a divorce. 

At some point, you WILL be losing half of your assets. So get used to the idea. The longer you are married to her, the less time you have to recoup those assets by concentrating on building back your wealth. In some states, the longer the marriage - the bigger the alimony. Consult an attorney and start doing some math.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You blame it all on her....

She laid out her cards, no goodbye bluff on your part was given.
She laid her body in another room, untouched by any man.

You folded your cards, did nothing.

Do something, divorce.

Then get a full time new lady to sleep comfortably next to you and caress her to your hearts content.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

I would walk away from my considerable assets if necessary if my spouse refused sex. Such a refusal is a breach of marriage vows, just as going outside of the marriage for sex is a breach.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


If you don't want to be the guy looking outside the marriage, then don't be. Get a divorce and leave your dysfunctional marriage with some dignity. 

You now hold the high ground; assuming the reason for the sexlessness is not due to anything you've done to hurt the marriage (abuse, infidelity). If you cheat, and are found out, you become the bad guy regardless of the reasons. 

You need to make the choice to continue to live in your current state or free yourself to the _possibility_ of finding a woman that meets your relationship needs.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think the better question is why do YOU care if you find someone else? 

You're the one that has been suffering from being in a sexless relationship for multiple years. So why are YOU caring what she thinks???

Think about that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sfort said:


> I would walk away from my considerable assets if necessary if my spouse refused sex. Such a refusal is a breach of marriage vows, just as going outside of the marriage for sex is a breach.


Easy to say, less easy to accomplish.

Having considerable assets helps at that dividing point. 

Many are not so lucky.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now to address your actual question. The most simple and concise answer is she has all the power. 

The second you get with someone that actually wants to be with you and has genuine desire for you, she looses all her power and control over you. 

She knows that your affections and attentions and ultimately your resources and money and support and provisioning and security etc will shift to the other person. 

Right now she has you right where she wants you. She gets all the benefits of marriage and having a man around to buy new furniture sets every few years and that unclogs toilets and kills spiders and brings home $$$, but she doesn't have to do anything and doesn't have to put up with any of that icky sex stuff...... at least not with you. 

When she says it's not important, she means it is not important to HER because she is not attracted to you and does not desire you. 

However, she knows fully well that it is important to YOU and that if someone else was providing that to you, that you would soon be moving on with that person(s) and as the Eagles said in the song "Already Gone" "But let me tell you I got some news for you, and you'll soon find out it's true, and then you'll have to eat your lunch all by yourself." 

So no, it's in her best interests to keep you captive in the dead marriage.... and I have to say she has played it masterfully. She dangled the carrot like a zen master. You have been on the string like the perfect puppet. 

At the moment you value your money, furniture and 24/7 access to your children more than your own sexuality and well being. That may or may not change in time. 

If you value your property, financial accounts and status quo more than your sexuality and happiness, you will remain in your sexless state. 

The day that you value your own happiness and sexuality more than the new furniture, you will walk.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> He doesn't want to give his wife half of the house, etc... that's why he doesn't divorce her. And they have a kid. It's easier to stay and find himself a "girlfriend"...


Yeah it's easier until that blows up and she finds out, is not willing to put up with it. Then he still risks losing half, and losing face as well because he cheated on her. That's his kids Mom he/she ain't going to care about the state of the marriage. He/She is not gonna be like thanks for cheating on my Mom so you can stay with me. 

That's a pretty stupid life strategy, good luck with that. 

Now if he can open up the marriage and be honest that is a different thing. Even if the potential is to end it, it may fix it, or she may just go for it. Either way that is a healthy way to deal with this. Honesty is the best way to move forward.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything.


Wow, you've really got her fooled. Instead of her getting half of everything, you are getting all of nothing. You need to write a book Dawg. Title it, "How to started with zero and quadruple it in a year"


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Does she work? If no, why?

It makes sense if you divorced you'd each get half of the marital assets. Right now, even married, you only technically own half. That's called joint ownership.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sfort said:


> I would walk away from my considerable assets if necessary if my spouse refused sex. Such a refusal is a breach of marriage vows, just as going outside of the marriage for sex is a breach.


Really? What vow did you and your spouse take to refusing sex is a breach of?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Really? What vow did you and your spouse take to refusing sex is a breach of?


You don't remember the "one flesh" part?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sfort said:


> You don't remember the "one flesh" part?


Even with the "traditional" vows, I don't ever remember hearing one that said anything along the lines of "do you promise to be of one flesh, providing for each other's sexual needs?" No matter I I reword any actual vow, I can't recall any to match that idea. Which is why I asked. I want to know what different vows you took.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sfort said:


> You don't remember the "one flesh" part?


What?

My marriage didn't have any phrase like that. Talking about flesh.

I'm sure many don't.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I'm a believer in divorce not cheating. If you want to know how your wife feels about you staying married but having sex with other people, ask her. Maybe that will spur her to address the problems.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Even with the "traditional" vows, I don't ever remember hearing one that said anything along the lines of "do you promise to be of one flesh, providing for each other's sexual needs?" No matter I I reword any actual vow, I can't recall any to match that idea. Which is why I asked. I want to know what different vows you took.


The concept of one flesh is from the Christian Bible. See Genesis 2:24. We're a Christian couple, and we subscribe to that tenet. Here's a pretty good explanation:

"Two becoming one in the sexual aspect of marriage means caring for and fulfilling one another’s physical needs with respect and mutual consent (1 Corinthians 7:1–5), not exploiting one another (1 Thessalonians 4:3–7), and delighting in one another (Proverbs 5:15–19; Ecclesiastes 9:9). God’s design for physical intimacy in marriage is portrayed with beauty and dignity in the Song of Solomon."









What does it mean that “the two shall become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24)? | GotQuestions.org


What does it mean that “the two shall become one flesh”? What is the meaning of Genesis 2:24?



www.gotquestions.org


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sfort said:


> The concept of one flesh is from the Christian Bible. See Genesis 2:24. We're a Christian couple, and we subscribe to that tenet. Here's a pretty good explanation:
> 
> "Two becoming one in the sexual aspect of marriage means caring for and fulfilling one another’s physical needs with respect and mutual consent (1 Corinthians 7:1–5), not exploiting one another (1 Thessalonians 4:3–7), and delighting in one another (Proverbs 5:15–19; Ecclesiastes 9:9). God’s design for physical intimacy in marriage is portrayed with beauty and dignity in the Song of Solomon."
> 
> ...


Granted. I am aware of the concept. What I wasn't aware of is where in the vows does one promise this? There is a difference between doing something because it is expected and doing it because you vowed to.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Granted. I am aware of the concept. What I wasn't aware of is where in the vows does one promise this? There is a difference between doing something because it is expected and doing it because you vowed to.


We may be arguing semantics. Marriage is a package. There's a lot more to commitment than just the few items listed in the very short marriage vows. I've never considered marriage vows to be a case of _expressio unius est exclusio alterius_. If I'm mistaken, we're going to have to add a LONG list of new things to vows, including, "You agree not to spend more than ___ hours per day on your cell phones..." and such.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sfort said:


> The concept of one flesh is from the Christian Bible. See Genesis 2:24. We're a Christian couple, and we subscribe to that tenet. Here's a pretty good explanation:
> 
> "Two becoming one in the sexual aspect of marriage means caring for and fulfilling one another’s physical needs with respect and mutual consent (1 Corinthians 7:1–5), not exploiting one another (1 Thessalonians 4:3–7), and delighting in one another (Proverbs 5:15–19; Ecclesiastes 9:9). God’s design for physical intimacy in marriage is portrayed with beauty and dignity in the Song of Solomon."
> 
> ...


Nowhere is OP's post did it say he had a Christian wedding; that they subscribed to the one flesh tenant, and that that was a factor in why his wife would object, so why are you quoting and reminding him of one flesh?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sfort said:


> The concept of one flesh is from the Christian Bible. See Genesis 2:24. We're a Christian couple, and we subscribe to that tenet. Here's a pretty good explanation:
> 
> "Two becoming one in the sexual aspect of marriage means caring for and fulfilling one another’s physical needs with respect and mutual consent (1 Corinthians 7:1–5), not exploiting one another (1 Thessalonians 4:3–7), and delighting in one another (Proverbs 5:15–19; Ecclesiastes 9:9). God’s design for physical intimacy in marriage is portrayed with beauty and dignity in the Song of Solomon."
> 
> ...


I'm on the same page. I've also witnessed, and been approving of, marriages being ended because one person decided sex wasn't on the menu.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I don't really know that anyone needs a reason to leave a marriage. As I have mentioned before, my ex left as she said I didn't make enough money. I have a male friend who left a marriage as the wife decided she didn't want children. And a guy I know left because his wife turned off the sex part after 20 years.

Not sure you really need a reason whether its religious based or not.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I don't really know that anyone needs a reason to leave a marriage. As I have mentioned before, my ex left as she said I didn't make enough money. I have a male friend who left a marriage as the wife decided she didn't want children. And a guy I know left because his wife turned off the sex part after 20 years.
> 
> Not sure you really need a reason whether its religious based or not.


You don't unless you are religious.

One poster started a play on semantics with another.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Hi everybody, not sure if I should post this here or in new member intro. For those stuck in sexless marriages or if you refused sex in the past.... I was just curious why a refuser cares if you seek sex outside of marriage. I was told many times by my wife that "sex is not important". If it's not why be angry if I try to get some elsewhere?
> 
> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years) But yeah, the living room furniture was replace twice since the last time now that I am thinking about it lol. At this point I don't even consider this a marriage as all attempts to correct this have failed. She moved out into another room years ago but wont get her own place.
> 
> Here is the kicker though she does not even want to talk about sex or work on this problem, she has made that clear. At this point I don't want to have sex with her as she used sex as a dangling carrot to get what she wants. The relationship is a mutual "what ever just live your life we are basically two people that happen to sleep in the same house" except we have a kid. I know though if I found a girlfriend that she would finally divorce me and probably get half of everything. But seriously at this point we live different lives and I don't get why she would get upset if I found someone new. The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new. What are your thoughts? I know this is so dysfunctional and trust me when I say that I never wanted to be that married guy looking outside of marriage.


Because sex isn't all marriage is about! Sex is only a fraction of what marriage is about.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because sex isn't all marriage is about! Sex is only a fraction of what marriage is about.


Of course marriage is about more than sex. BUT sex is a core, foundational pillar of marriage. Without sex, it is not a marriage, it’s just another friend, at best.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because sex isn't all marriage is about! Sex is only a fraction of what marriage is about.


Well, 9/10 is a fraction!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Now to address your actual question. The most simple and concise answer is she has all the power.
> 
> The second you get with someone that actually wants to be with you and has genuine desire for you, she looses all her power and control over you.
> 
> ...


Good point.

Many want a sure exit strategy. From having nothing to cling to at night, to having a chest full.

Classic honey/hunky branching.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP wasn't asking about leaving a marriage.

He was wondering why a long time refuser would care if the refusee finally got a girlfriend or had sex on the side. He did not say religious belief is any factor in this.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The delicious promise of your next lover is more a surety, than your cold, present one.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Point being a lot of people do not think that sex is a good enough reason to throw away a marriage and family. There's a lot at stake.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> OP wasn't asking about leaving a marriage.
> 
> He was wondering why a long time refuser would care if the refusee finally got a girlfriend or had sex on the side. He did not say religious belief is any factor in this.


That got started by a poster who decided to play semantics with another.

I think most here are not going to advocate for having a girlfriend even if the wife decides sex is off the menu.

Most would advocate for divorce so that's what they are saying.

I'm not sure how large the pool of contributors there will be who fit the narrow criteria of having a chunk of wood laying next to them who have asked that chunk of wood about going out and getting a girlfriend.

Someone has to be pretty much disconnected from reality to think being a chunk of wood in bed is acceptable at all in marriage so I have no idea why they wouldn't want their roommate to get sex elsewhere except for needing to be in control, fear of social embarrassment, etc...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Point being a lot of people do not think that sex is a good enough reason to throw away a marriage and family. There's a lot at stake.


There are apparently quite a few who think not having sex is a great reason to destroy a marriage and family.

To each their own but involuntary eunuchs get little sympathy, or comprehension, from me for staying and chunks of wood get zero.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> OP wasn't asking about leaving a marriage.
> 
> He was wondering why a long time refuser would care if the refusee finally got a girlfriend or had sex on the side. He did not say religious belief is any factor in this.


Who gives a rats behind about her cares?

She cares, not a hoot, for his needs.

Yes, she would care, as she has demonstrated innate selfishness.

For her, not to care about his going outside of the marriage for comfort, would assign her a generous air.

Of which, she has none.

So, it seems.

Her selfish gene goes all the way to the bone, including his bony appendage.

The correct answer would come from her lips.

God's, that he needs permission.
Rightly, he does. The mere statement would likely set her all atwitter.

Um, to be tha fly on the wall, hearing that outcry.
Umm.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sfort said:


> We may be arguing semantics. Marriage is a package. There's a lot more to commitment than just the few items listed in the very short marriage vows. I've never considered marriage vows to be a case of _expressio unius est exclusio alterius_. If I'm mistaken, we're going to have to add a LONG list of new things to vows, including, "You agree not to spend more than ___ hours per day on your cell phones..." and such.


Maybe. And I agree that marriage is a package. But, and this may fall under the semantics issue, I see what I agree to and what I vow to as very differently. I also don't make assumptions as to what vows people have taken. However, I am aware of what is common, and I honestly wondered if that was something you and your wife specifically made vows upon.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Someone said...

If you get divorced you will be losing half of your your *ass*ets.

Hah!

One set of buns has been broken for years.

Remarry, and double your buns and your triple your fun puns.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I'm on the same page. I've also witnessed, and been approving of, marriages being ended because one person decided sex wasn't on the menu.


I agree with the principle as well. It was just the vow breaking aspect that I was inquiring about.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> That got started by a poster who decided to play semantics with another.
> 
> I think most here are not going to advocate for having a girlfriend even if the wife decides sex is off the menu.
> 
> ...


I strongly believe the best course of action in these cases (if the spouse doesn’t come around after attempts to fix the sexual dynamic) is to divorce and go find a real passionate relationship with a partner who actually wants to have sex with you.

That said, if someone decides that the cost of divorce is higher than the cost of an unfulfilling marriage, other options may be viable. At the risk of finding myself aligned with the poly patrol, I wouldn’t actually be opposed to getting a girlfriend in OPs case. As long as he owns it and does it above board. 

If he’s a man with options that can get sex elsewhere, I can see a case for telling her “if you won’t be in an intimate sexual relationship with me, I’ll find it elsewhere. Since we are both comfortable in our lifestyle and have a lot to lose in a divorce, I’m willing to keep things in place but I will be getting my needs for sex and intimacy met elsewhere. If you don’t like it, start contributing to an intimate, sexual marriages and I’ll reevaluate.”


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> I strongly believe the best course of action in these cases (if the spouse doesn’t come around after attempts to fix the sexual dynamic) is to divorce and go find a real passionate relationship with a partner who actually wants to have sex with you.
> 
> That said, if someone decides that the cost of divorce is higher than the cost of an unfulfilling marriage, other options may be viable. At the risk of finding myself aligned with the poly patrol, I wouldn’t actually be opposed to getting a girlfriend in OPs case. As long as he owns it and does it above board.
> 
> If he’s a man with options that can get sex elsewhere, I can see a case for telling her “if you won’t be in an intimate sexual relationship with me, I’ll find it elsewhere. Since we are both comfortable in our lifestyle and have a lot to lose in a divorce, I’m willing to keep things in place but I will be getting my needs for sex and intimacy met elsewhere. If you don’t like it, start contributing to an intimate, sexual marriages and I’ll reevaluate.”


That's definitely their business but I doubt someone, so irrational as to believe turning their spouse into a eunuch as acceptable, would really go for any form of resolution.

If they are so out of touch as to try and make their spouse into a eunuch in the first place, they probably think cats and dogs can have a viable mating relationship and make kuppies or pittens.😵


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> Of course marriage is about more than sex. BUT sex is a core, foundational pillar of marriage. Without sex, it is not a marriage, it’s just another friend, at best.


I disagree with this. There are plenty of couples, mostly elderly but not all, who are happily married and not having sex. Even to the point where elderly couples are getting married even though they don't have sex any more.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> I disagree with this. There are plenty of couples, mostly elderly but not all, who are happily married and not having sex. Even to the point where elderly couples are getting married even though they don't have sex any more.


Exception for the elderly noted and agreed. 

Otherwise I stand by the initial statement. For healthy, non-elderly people; sex and sexual intimacy is a core, existential pillar of marriage.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Point being a lot of people do not think that sex is a good enough reason to throw away a marriage and family. There's a lot at stake.


Yes there is, but you have not answered the question. The withholding spouse could allow it but almost always does not.

The withholding spouse could say "I'm not into you but I don't want to upend our lives so I'm cool with you getting it on the side if that works for you." But most won't. Like I said before, it comes down to self-interest, power, control.

"He might like her better." "He'll be spending time and money somewhere else." "What will people think if they find out?" That's what people think.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Point being a lot of people do not think that sex is a good enough reason to throw away a marriage and family. There's a lot at stake.


Well then that person can provide more and better sex to keep the marriage going if it's "just sex". The issue here is that at its root, this is a matter of "what I want matters more".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Usually it's not a simple matter. Usually there is something that caused the rift to begin with that made the woman not feel like "making love" to her husband.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

DudeInProgress said:


> Exception for the elderly noted and agreed.
> 
> Otherwise I stand by the initial statement. For healthy, non-elderly people; sex and sexual intimacy is a core, existential pillar of marriage.


I would also put in an exception for people who are healthy, non-elderly people wo are both low drive or both asexual. For example, if two people love and commit to one another for the purpose of forming a family, but in getting to know each other agree that having sex once every-other-month is fine for them, then they are married. Same for a healthy, non-elderly couple who spoke ahead of time and told each other they are asexual (meaning "lack of sexual attraction to others" not very low drive). If two asexual people love and commit to one another for the purpose of forming a family, but just agree that there's little to no real desire for intercourse, then they are married too. 

I think it might be most reasonable to say that A MUTUAL, ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT about sex and sexual intimacy is a core pillar of marriage. (I included "enthusiastic" so that we're not talking about folks who agree to something only to flip after marriage or folks who feel pressured or "forced" into saying one thing when they feel or think another.) As long as the two people AGREE and both feel that way or both think in similar ways, then whatever goes on between them is their business!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> I strongly believe the best course of action in these cases (if the spouse doesn’t come around after attempts to fix the sexual dynamic) is to divorce and go find a real passionate relationship with a partner who actually wants to have sex with you.


While I agree that divorce is the best course of action, i think you are missing a key word from the quote above. That word is TRY as in " the best course of action in these cases is to divorce and *TRY *to find a real passionate relationship with a partner who actually wants to have sex with you."

It's not as easy as many make it out to be, especially after a certain age.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Lila said:


> While I agree that divorce is the best course of action, i think you are missing a key word from the quote above. That word is TRY as in " the best course of action in these cases is to divorce and *TRY *to find a real passionate relationship with a partner who actually wants to have sex with you."
> 
> It's not as easy as many make it out to be, especially after a certain age.


Fair enough. Though I do believe that to a fair degree, one’s attractiveness and ability to find a new relationship it’s largely within your control. Granted more difficult with age.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DudeInProgress said:


> Fair enough. Though I do believe that to a fair degree, one’s attractiveness and ability to find a new relationship it’s largely within your control. Granted more difficult with age.


I am inclined to agree with this. And I don't think you have to be spectacular to find someone who wants you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Usually it's not a simple matter. Usually there is something that caused the rift to begin with that made the woman not feel like "making love" to her husband.


I agree there usually is some rift. So what? The options are the same - work to fix the underlying problem and meet the need or allow him to seek it elsewhere (married or otherwise).

I simply don't agree that you owe someone fidelity who is withholding or having duty sex. If I don't like you enough to want sex with you, I won't ask you to stay, act like you owe me (because you don't from a relationship perspective), shame you by saying sex shouldn't matter so much (which is like saying my wants matter more than yours), etc.

I'll just let it go, wish you well, and move on. I know I'll be fine with or without. Maybe it's fear that drives that mindset of demanding fidelity?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's more than just the husband to consider. That's only a fraction of what matters to a mother. Women don't like to have empty sex with a man that has already done them wrong some way. Yeah I agree most people will be better just to get out. But I've seen both men and women on this forum just say they're not leaving because they don't want to disrupt the family or for financial reasons on both sides. I couldn't live with someone I didn't care about anymore and especially if they didn't care about me unless I had sex even after they had done something to really do the marriage wrong.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> Fair enough. Though I do believe that to a fair degree, one’s attractiveness and ability to find a new relationship it’s largely within your control. Granted more difficult with age.





DTO said:


> I am inclined to agree with this. And I don't think you have to be spectacular to find someone who wants you.


I have some experience in this area. Being a middle aged divorced woman I have to disagree with you to some degree. 

Can people readily find casual sex? Yes. I think plenty of women and men coming out of dead bedrooms are able to find others to scratch their itch. However, trying to find someone to have sex with who you also want to spend time with outside the bedroom is difficult Why? Emotional baggage and responsibilities. We have more of it as we age. There's also the fact that the older we get the less likely we are to want to put up with anyone else's crap.


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

I guess that I didn't provide much of a back story because it's long. Yeah I am religious and also introverted beta. Got married to the only girl I had sex with. I stayed this long because of my kid and religious reasons. Her mom divorced her dad and moved to another state with the kids and I figured she would do the same to me somehow. My house I inherited and I am a 3rd generation owner, I don't want to lose it. The "less than 7 times a year" frequency was going on for almost all of the marriage, since the mid 1990's. Tragedies such as losing a child came and went so I was trying to be understanding. I was also young and naïve. I tried to just put up with the situation. 

About 12 years ago I got prescribed meds to calm my anxiety. Sex was on my mind 24/7 and since I was a dad that went to my kids events I was around a lot of soccer moms. Hot lonely soccer moms that tempted me and whos offers I turned down. I hated myself for turning them down and hated myself for finding the offers so appealing.

4 years ago I went sideways and had a nervous breakdown and at that time I know that many other years had already come and gone without sex. Because of my mental state the past few years I have trouble remembering how long if's been. But yeah I do remember every major thing we bought because I would think "yeah new carpet getting laid and I am not". I lost my job and became agoraphobic. Recently I had another health scare. I ended up stopping all medications related to mental health and slowly I have become much more stronger both mentally and physically. OMG my sex drive has also come back. I feel like a horny teen-ager. I realized that if I get over my current health crises that life is too short for all this drama. I have a lot of work to do yet to become an person that is appealing. My lack of experience at my age is intimidating. Sex with my wife was boring with the lights turned off duty sex most of the times.

She came from an unstable family. My guess is that she is comfortable as long as she has a roof over her head but is afraid of true intimacy. But really so many excuses over the years. One augment many years ago she actually said "if sex is so important to you why don't you go out and screw somebody?" She is the one that actually came up with the idea "as an insult to me" but later told everybody that the idea was mine. When I brought it up later she made it perfectly clear I was not to do so. I just found it odd how according to her sex is insignificant but yet it's forbidden.

Posting this question made me realize one of my faults relating to my mental health. My need to know answers and the ways I always tried to search for them. Why why why was always running through my head. I suppose the reason why does not matter. I have thrown away so many years already. I just got to keep improving myself.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Posting this question made me realize one of my faults relating to my mental health. My need to know answers and the ways I always tried to search for them. Why why why was always running through my head. I suppose the reason why does not matter. I have thrown away so many years already. I just got to keep improving myself.


Don't downplay your wife's role in all of this. It's very easy to think it's all your fault. It's an easy way to find acceptance, to blame yourself. Relationships are very complex. I'm telling you this because I'm doing the same, and it's not healthy on the long run.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Got married to the only girl I had sex with....
> ...Sex with my wife was boring with the lights turned off duty sex most of the times.


"Boring" is a word that is used to compare two things. So sex with your wife is boring compared to what?

You could buy some military-grade-night-vision headgear you know! It is not like she will see you wearing it. You can tell her you don't like having your face touched. Just say'n.


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

badsanta said:


> "Boring" is a word that is used to compare two things. So sex with your wife is boring compared to what?
> 
> You could buy some military-grade-night-vision headgear you know! It is not like she will see you wearing it. You can tell her you don't like having your face touched. Just say'n.


*boring*
(ˈbɔːrɪŋ)
_adj_
dull; repetitious; uninteresting
*ˈboringly* _adv_

I know that I don't have the best grammar but I thought the description is spot on?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

If you stayed for religious reasons what does your religion say about adultery?


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> If you stayed for religious reasons what does your religion say about adultery?


Obviously adultery is bad. We all sin knowingly, all sin is bad. Adultery is another sin along with premarital sex. (so far I have not committed adultery but I did the other) I don't think this marriage is God honoring already for all the other broken vows. Are two people living separate lives in the same house really married at this point? It's not what I wanted or intended to do that's for sure. God hates sin and I hate this situation too.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Obviously adultery is bad. We all sin knowingly, all sin is bad. Adultery is another sin along with premarital sex. (so far I have not committed adultery but I did the other) I don't think this marriage is God honoring already for all the other broken vows. Are two people living separate lives in the same house really married at this point? It's not what I wanted or intended to do that's for sure. God hates sin and I hate this situation too.


Well then it seems you are in a pickle unless you can reconcile things with your God.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Obviously adultery is bad. We all sin knowingly, all sin is bad. Adultery is another sin along with premarital sex. (so far I have not committed adultery but I did the other) I don't think this marriage is God honoring already for all the other broken vows. Are two people living separate lives in the same house really married at this point? It's not what I wanted or intended to do that's for sure. God hates sin and I hate this situation too.


Just ending sex is a good reason to end the marriage unless she has no choice, which it appears she does.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Point being a lot of people do not think that sex is a good enough reason to throw away a marriage and family. There's a lot at stake.


Need to ask that of the one withholding intamacy.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Well then it seems you are in a pickle unless you can reconcile things with your God.


I believe rwfusing a spouse after they have made a vow to forsake all others, is in itself, sexually immoral behavior and therefore Biblical grounds for divorce.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> Really? What vow did you and your spouse take to refusing sex is a breach of?


Maybe something in the “have and to hold” part. He ain’t getting any holding. Lol


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I would enjoy divorcing a woman like you describe so much, it might even be worth it to lose half my ****.


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## Jadedlilguy (Apr 7, 2021)

I think you solved your own problem with this statement "The only thing I could think of is fear that I would force her out of the house if I fell for someone new."

I think if you have fun with someone and get along with them. If you have more good days than bad, seek counseling. If not tell her kick rock.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> I believe rwfusing a spouse after they have made a vow to forsake all others, is in itself, sexually immoral behavior and therefore Biblical grounds for divorce.


So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’ve heard a few stories of people having breakdowns and becoming agoraphobic and they all have one thing in common - a spouse that’s got double standards and a cold heart. 

I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. 

To answer your question why does she care? The better question is why doesn’t she care about you. 

She doesn’t want you, but doesn’t want anyone else to want you. She’s the star of the show in her own strange, eccentric movie.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> *boring*
> (ˈbɔːrɪŋ)
> _adj_
> dull; repetitious; uninteresting
> ...


My point was that you could take responsibility to make things more exciting. With the lights turned off allows for a tremendous amount of creative possibilities. You could wear a harness and attach one of those ground effect kits that people would normally use to light up underneath their cars, but instead attach a bunch of LED lighting effects to light up and ornament your junk. Combine that with some 500 watt subwoofers under the bed and drop the beat when you dive in. 

I mean if you had this subwoofer setup and secretly hidden underneath you bed and surprised your wife, would it still be boring:


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?


Absolutely:



> 1 Cor 7:5
> “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”


This establishes 100% that sexual refusal to a spouse is sin. And yes, in context, Paul is speaking explicitly about sexual deprivation here.

And exactly what is marriage, Biblically speaking? Jesus quotes Moses starting in Mark 10:6



> ”But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”


”Hold fast” is a well know euphemism for sex in that culture, and I would hope “become one flesh” is also understood by all. It has a far deeper spiritual meaning as well, but it certainly means physical sex.

Sexual refusal is also abandonment of the marriage covenant, which Paul also explicitly says is Biblical grounds for divorce in 1 Cor 7:10-16. I’ve counseled a number of Christian men over the years to divorce their refusing wives, with explicit approval of their churches, following church discipline procedures with the refusing spouse. And no, there was nothing physically wrong with the women, nor was there any abuse or other bad behavior of the men. Sadly, the men could be better described as doormats, but they’re all now happily re-married and hopefully not as spineless.


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

badsanta said:


> My point was that you could take responsibility to make things more exciting. With the lights turned off allows for a tremendous amount of creative possibilities. You could wear a harness and attach one of those ground effect kits that people would normally use to light up underneath their cars, but instead attach a bunch of LED lighting effects to light up and ornament your junk. Combine that with some 500 watt subwoofers under the bed and drop the beat when you dive in.
> 
> I mean if you had this subwoofer setup and secretly hidden underneath you bed and surprised your wife, would it still be boring:


Haha yes, I am thinking about good vibrations those speaker would make. But she doesn't even like the vibration my motorcycle makes. I am sure the right person would have miles of smiles though.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?


That's kinda like my question asking which vow was broken.


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

Today on Facebook Mark Gungor made the following post...


(If you don’t think adultery is grounds for separation, you will need medication after reading this.)
WHEN A SPOUSE REFUSES SEX
I have been posting about what it means to be sexually unfaithful. While these are not exhaustive posts (in other words, not every single angle is covered) my goal is to challenge the thinking of many in the hope that they arrive at a healthy biblical perspective.
The clearest and most obvious form of sexual unfaithfulness is when a person engages in physical sex with someone who is not their spouse. But that is not the ONLY form of sexual unfaithfulness.
To understand where I am coming from, one must ask: What does it mean to be faithful?
One is faithful in prayer if they pray. If one does not pray they are not being faithful in prayer.
If one shows up to work on time and does their job, they are considered a faithful employee. If not, they are unfaithful.
Anyone who can always be depended on is called faithful. Those who always perform or discharge their duties are called faithful.
When an individual refuses sex on an extended basis to their spouse, they are being sexually unfaithful.
Concerning sex in marriage, the Apostle Paul wrote,
“The husband should fulfill his marital duty [sex] to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. Do not deprive each other...” 1 Cor 7
Couples are to be sexually faithful to one another. When one unilaterally decides to deny sex to their partner, they are no longer sexually faithful. More clearly stated: The man or woman who refuses sex to their spouse is being SEXUALLY UNFAITHFUL.
We are not talking about people who are having physical problems or those in abusive situations. We are talking about an individual, for whatever reason, just refusing to be sexually intimate with their spouse.
At it’s core, marriage is a sexual contract. Refusing sex to your partner is a violation of the contract. (“Covenant” for you uber spiritual.)
Bottom line is that couples are supposed to be sexually active with each other. When they refuse (and “refuse” is the key word here), they are being sexually unfaithful. And in such cases I always advise the same steps as if one were having sex with a person who is not their spouse.
1. Confront the unfaithfulness
2. File for separation
In my next post I will explain why separation is the best option in such a case. Often it is the only real option.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?


1 Corr. 7:2 But because of sexual immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

1 Corrinthians 7:5 Says not to deprive one another except if both consent, for a time to pray and fast. 

Withholding sexual intimacy is immorality based on sexual nature. The sexually immoral behavior spoken of in the Bible covers more than just Adultry. Adultry is just one of the immoral acts covered by the"sexual immorality" as cited for Biblical grounds for divorce.
Just like making one believe you are a virgin and you are not. That is grounds for divorce.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?


I've made the argument successfully and it has been recognized as a reason for annulling marriages that aren't consumated.

Biblically, spouses are not suppose to deny each other.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> At it’s core, marriage is a sexual contract. Refusing sex to your partner is a violation of the contract.


In my opinion that argument is based on a sense of *entitlement.* In reality it is going to cause additional harm. Love is patient, keeps no record or wrongdoing, always hopes, and always perseveres. 

I once thought that since marriage vows included, "to have and to hold" that I should be able to have a hug whenever I wanted. Nope! Doesn't work that way. You can let your spouse know that you are ready for a hug when they are. If your spouse does not want a hug then you can talk about why. Once you are both ready for a hug, THEN you can hug. 

Getting back to sex. There is such a thing in marriage as maintenance sex. You can talk about that and come to an understanding with one another as to what the realistic expectations would be for that to happen. It does not have to be boring and can be a place of healing and connection if you are willing to put in the effort that it takes to work together as a team. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Today on Facebook Mark Gungor made the following post...
> 
> 
> (If you don’t think adultery is grounds for separation, you will need medication after reading this.)
> ...


Ok. So what are YOU going to do NOW?


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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Ok. So what are YOU going to do NOW?


To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.

Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.

I have a bucket list. A real adult relationship is on it. If I want to have one I think at this point my wife is not even an option. Too much anger on her part for so many years and I just don't get it. I don't hate her, I wish her well. But I am trying to figure out how to get out of what always felt like a trap. I always had bad anxiety but it was always under control, did not limit me in any way. I do a lot of wondering that if I never met my wife how things may have looked very different. I don't blame her for my illness but obviously my marital situation is a factor. Trying to figure out the way out with the least amount of drama.

I was thinking "hey I am getting better, perhaps I could get back to work and buy a very modest second home." She would still have security of this home and I could get what I want. Also, my kid would still inherit the home someday. But obviously this would not work because she does not want me to have sex at all apparently. And that's what kind of what led me to the initial question. Why does it matter so much to her as long as she gets what she wants? It's clear she does not want me. I would like to remove her from my life completely so a divorce does look good. The only problem is I can't remove her completely without abandoning my kid. So all this comes down to what I am doing now is working on myself so that I can face what will need to eventually do. My current goal is to be hopefully divorced and moved on the best I can in a years time. My confidence is low but improving, knew her in high school and now I am pushing 50.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

She should have celebrated that 45-minute drive, cried tears of joy for you. 

Remember this moment years from now, when you are thriving. 

The one who promised to love you, has watched you suffer a debilitating illness... and didn’t want to cheer you on when you found your feet.

Never forget those words, but remember to look back on them with no feeling one day, don’t let a person like that be the stain. 

That day will come for you too, where you don’t feel the pain you do now when you look back on this story about somebody that you used to know. 

Your wife actually likes you down and out. 

You will get better, and her hatred for you will grow. You’ll see.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.
> 
> Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.
> 
> ...


“ Women do not care about a man’s struggles. They wait at the finish line and pick the winner.” 
- Richard Cooper


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Exception for the elderly noted and agreed.
> 
> Otherwise I stand by the initial statement. For healthy, non-elderly people; sex and sexual intimacy is a core, existential pillar of marriage.


Disagree regarding "elderly". Sexual intimacy is a core of marriage until death. We are in our seventies, and without that intimacy the marriage would be done. I am amazed people male and female would tolerate a dead bedroom for longer than it takes to file for divorce. The OP is already divorced without the paperwork.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Disagree regarding "elderly". Sexual intimacy is a core of marriage until death. We are in our seventies, and without that intimacy the marriage would be done. I am amazed people male and female would tolerate a dead bedroom for longer than it takes to file for divorce. The OP is already divorced without the paperwork.


I won't speak for @DudeInProgress, but my assertion on the elderly was not meant as a universal statement, but a general truism. And it is true, even if not for you and others. There are plenty of elderly people in happy fulfilled marriages without having sexual intimacy. There are even elderly people who get married knowing that there will be no sex between them. And there are younger people who are that way as well. My biggest point is that these types of people exist, in enough numbers we can easily point to examples, and are more frequent in certain demographics.

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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.
> 
> Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.
> 
> ...


Your wife sounds like my ex husband. I also suffer anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, panic attacks, lost lots of weight because I couldn't eat. So much you have written I could have written myself. I finally left an emotional, mental, verbally abusive marriage March 2020 and filing for divorce. I'm struggling daily thanks to all the trauma from that marriage. I understand what you are going through. Your life won't improve till you get away from the abuse. That's what you are going through abuse :-( congratulate yourself on any progress you are making no matter how small. Going for the drive was a great achievement and you should feel proud. I am trying to go for short walks with my rescue dog and building myself back up from there. I'm now going to get myself a push bike so I can go cycling in the countryside here  I am still trying to eat better I want my curves back haha. Here if you need support. You've got this  I'm finding TAM very helpful and realised I'm not alone in my suffering. It's sad seeing so many of us hurt, abused and I get comfort knowing I'm not alone. Please take care  

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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Your wife sounds like my ex husband. I also suffer anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, panic attacks, lost lots of weight because I couldn't eat. So much you have written I could have written myself. I finally left an emotional, mental, verbally abusive marriage March 2020 and filing for divorce. I'm struggling daily thanks to all the trauma from that marriage. I understand what you are going through. Your life won't improve till you get away from the abuse. That's what you are going through abuse :-( congratulate yourself on any progress you are making no matter how small. Going for the drive was a great achievement and you should feel proud. I am trying to go for short walks with my rescue dog and building myself back up from there. I'm now going to get myself a push bike so I can go cycling in the countryside here  I am still trying to eat better I want my curves back haha. Here if you need support. You've got this  I'm finding TAM very helpful and realised I'm not alone in my suffering. It's sad seeing so many of us hurt, abused and I get comfort knowing I'm not alone. Please take care
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Wow we do sound similar. When I would go for a bike ride or a walk I was told that I was being selfish for spending my time that way. (because nothing in life matters more than doing more work lol) In fact I was just trying to get rid of some energy and was pacing through my home and was told "I don't like it when you do that" so I decided to come here and check the forum. Back in the day (not too long ago but it's impossible now) I could ride 30 miles no problem. Loved it along with hikes in the woods and going to swimming holes. I was bit of an adrenalin junky too, that is until I had too much of it all the time that is. I would go to work, come home and walk 3 miles through my neighborhood every day. Then one day I had a massive attack during that walk and collapsed. Started to get 5 panic attacks a day after that point and became agoraphobic. Thank god I have not had any major attacks like that recently.

Knowing that I am not alone is bittersweet. Knowing that other people get it is nice but then again knowing other people are suffering for no apparent reason sucks. It's all bit confusing when all the stuff you loved and want to do again becomes what feels impossible. It's been so long I have no idea who I truly am. Anyways congratulation's on getting out of the bad relationship. I also rode my bike today. I managed to ride it back and forth to the my neighbors on both sides of me a few times. Perhaps it will give me chuckle the next time to think that somebody else is having the same issue. It's hard to wrap my head around knowing that this is all senseless yet its the hardest thing to overcome and yeah, I try to look at it with a bit of humor as a coping mechanism. (no offence intended to your struggles)


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Are you sure your "wife" doesn't have a boyfriend?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> Wow we do sound similar. When I would go for a bike ride or a walk I was told that I was being selfish for spending my time that way. (because nothing in life matters more than doing more work lol) In fact I was just trying to get rid of some energy and was pacing through my home and was told "I don't like it when you do that" so I decided to come here and check the forum. Back in the day (not too long ago but it's impossible now) I could ride 30 miles no problem. Loved it along with hikes in the woods and going to swimming holes. I was bit of an adrenalin junky too, that is until I had too much of it all the time that is. I would go to work, come home and walk 3 miles through my neighborhood every day. Then one day I had a massive attack during that walk and collapsed. Started to get 5 panic attacks a day after that point and became agoraphobic. Thank god I have not had any major attacks like that recently.
> 
> Knowing that I am not alone is bittersweet. Knowing that other people get it is nice but then again knowing other people are suffering for no apparent reason sucks. It's all bit confusing when all the stuff you loved and want to do again becomes what feels impossible. It's been so long I have no idea who I truly am. Anyways congratulation's on getting out of the bad relationship. I also rode my bike today. I managed to ride it back and forth to the my neighbors on both sides of me a few times. Perhaps it will give me chuckle the next time to think that somebody else is having the same issue. It's hard to wrap my head around knowing that this is all senseless yet its the hardest thing to overcome and yeah, I try to look at it with a bit of humor as a coping mechanism. (no offence intended to your struggles)


A sense of humour is good when struggling. I have a bit of a dark sense of humour at times. Someone I know is a paramedic and she said it's the dark sense of humour that gets them through their work. I used to cycle for miles around Somerset years ago when I lived there. Had to push my bike up the steep hills though. I can cycle forever if on flat ground haha. All through my marriage my ex hubby never went on long walks with me or even a short walk. Would drive everywhere and park close to where we were going. I'm an outdoor person so will be able to do my own thing now in my own time. Do you feel like you are walking on egg shells all the time? 

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## CrazyGuy72 (Apr 2, 2021)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> A sense of humour is good when struggling. I have a bit of a dark sense of humour at times. Someone I know is a paramedic and she said it's the dark sense of humour that gets them through their work. I used to cycle for miles around Somerset years ago when I lived there. Had to push my bike up the steep hills though. I can cycle forever if on flat ground haha. All through my marriage my ex hubby never went on long walks with me or even a short walk. Would drive everywhere and park close to where we were going. I'm an outdoor person so will be able to do my own thing now in my own time. Do you feel like you are walking on egg shells all the time?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Yeah on egg shells. Just about every aspect of the marriage is bad, about power and control. Just that for me the lack of sex hurts the most. Before marriage the sex was great and no matter how tough life got I felt like I could handle anything. After marriage it was just empty promises to get what she wanted. Was thinking that I probably should have started this post a bit differently, perhaps in the mental health area. I know she is messed up and I am too. I at least am working on my issues, she wont admit to hers let alone work on them. I honestly don't think she actually knows what she wants or is unwilling to work towards any important goal.


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## Htuna2 (May 19, 2021)

CrazyGuy72 said:


> When I talk that I am in a sexless marriage it's been 6 to 10 years since the last time I had sex with my wife. (I don't know because I stopped counting the years)


It isn't just women that aren't interested. I last had sex 2 times in LV, NV, November, 2007 when my husband was taking care of his dad's estate. Prior to that was October, 2004 before we moved to his parents' house that we were fixing up. So, think I have you beat.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I would imagine because they have a strong sense of loyalty but that doesn't extend to feeling desire for you. When my xbf started texting friends about needing another woman I almost broke up with him but just stayed together for a bit for stability for our kids schooling before breaking up with him and he couldn't understand why I all of sudden stopped initiating and kept turning him down when for months before he was the one who didn't want sex.

I would not stay in a relationship with someone who felt nothing sexual for me. It's normal to go through dry patches but someone who is actively craving other women and doesn't engage in sex with me is not someone I want to be around. I would imagine it is similar for many - they don't want their spouse because they lost desire over time but get all excited about a new and shiny person. Maybe they would care out of pride if you took up with someone else? Pride? Ego? I don't know.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

jealousy, manipulation


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