# I'm now worried about my wife



## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

You can read all my previous posts. Something has occurred over the past two days that probably has been building very slowly and I just didn't notice until it had gotten this bad. Two nights ago we were chatting and having a great time we never just talk like we were but we end up talking for like 3hrs. It was great just shooting the **** but near the end I touched her knee at one point, she goes. "Don't" I said "touch your knee?" and she said "don't touch me ever!" i don't like you and don't trust you i feel as if I'm being molested. You know what that's like right (referring to some unwanted sexual contact a friend tried to have with me in high-school) and it killed the night needless to say. 

Last night, the very next night, she cuddles up to me while watching a tv show in bed and holds my hand and starts being somewhat sexual almost. She had me playing with her hair and so i decided to make a move. 

As soon as i did she freaked and said that I wasn't respecting what she said the night before and that all I wanted was sex not to be with her (not true, physical love is a love language of mine and that's all. I want her, i love her i don't just want sex) it went on and on about how i probably told her I wanted to have more kids just so that I could have sex to get her pregnant and that men or anyone don't need sex and that men manipulate women by using that excuse. Its something people want but that marriages should exist without it and it's only something that people do if they want to in a marriage (duh right?) but not because anyone "needs to" 

I'm rambling it went on and on but it hit me that this has nothing to do with me. Somethings wrong, really wrong and oddly feel more committed to helping her because something is clearly off. 

I post here because this community always helps me see things i'm not seeing and gives me support since i have no friends and I can't trust my family. You're all I have to talk to.
Thanks in advance.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Any other odd behavior? Was she sexually abused as a child?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Has she been sexually abused? Or suffered any kind of abuse for that matter? Has she been diagnosed with any kind of mental disorder?

Sorry just trying to get some quick answers from you on things, I don't have time to read your other posts right now.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Not that she's ever admitted but I've long suspected more than she's told me. She feels she's rushed into sex and men have used her for sure but I don't feel that would account for this extreme response. As she always said she felt she could say no.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

It sounds like she has been. Have you suggested counseling? I think too, if she refuses to go you should go. Tell a counselor what you have told us here and see what they have to say.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

That is extremely odd. Sexual activity is such an important component in a marriage. It brings two people much closer together into a deeper bond.

I love physical touch from my husband, including groping. I'll take it anytime, unless I'm feeling really I'll with the stomach bug. Then I need to be left alone.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Well she isn't the only one who can make demands with the physical touching thing. Tell her you insist she not initiate physical touching if you are not allowed to touch her back. Because you never know what will set her off. She needs therapy.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

I am starting to feel really crazy. She's got me thinking I'm wrong for tying an emotion to sex. 

I'm in love with my hubby: I think you're a unique case and your husband's a lucky man. Most women do not feel that way. 

I definitely will seek counseling but there are going to be all sorts of obstacles i promise. She will not be ok with the money spent she will refuse to watch the kids during the time and absolutely will not attend. I work 12 hours a day though I don't believe i'll have a time to go. Suggestions? I've always said that a therapist that works house calls would be ideal for us.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

matman said:


> I am starting to feel really crazy. She's got me thinking I'm wrong for tying an emotion to sex.
> 
> I'm in love with my hubby: I think you're a unique case and your husband's a lucky man. Most women do not feel that way.
> 
> I definitely will seek counseling but there are going to be all sorts of obstacles i promise. She will not be ok with the money spent she will refuse to watch the kids during the time and absolutely will not attend. I work 12 hours a day though I don't believe i'll have a time to go. Suggestions? I've always said that a therapist that works house calls would be ideal for us.


Hold on a minute...sex is also important in my marriage...to me, so IILWMH is not the only one. 

Something weird is going on. She should want to get therapy if she has a problem with this. I did.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Thats the problem she doesn't see it as a problem. I'm the one with the issues here not her. I'm being sarcastic of course but that's the dynamic she's setup in our relationship. Any argument to the contrary elicits rage and irrational behavior as the prior mentioned threatening of police phone calls which I can't afford. I'm pretty stuck.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

I don't mean to be sexist but I had always had in my head that while women can enjoy sex they don't find any need for it or desire. My wife has backed that up along with her friends and her sisters who i've heard complain about having to have sex etc etc enough women i've encountered had echoed that that I have started to believe it. I always thought that was just a ridiculous thing that men who weren't getting sex or who where horrible partners would say but the vast majority of women I've been involved with and been around view it as a chore for sure.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Hoo Boy

It's not you who needs the counseling. It's her

She needs some serious IC to dig into this and to find out why she feels that way about sex

Good luck. Sounds like your life just went from crap to sh1thouse in 30 seconds flat


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

If you already know she wont go, then you need to go. If she pitches a fit because of money, wont watch the kids etc, then know you're dealing with a child yourself. If you're two grown married people its time to start acting like it. Get into some IC, and see what they suggest.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

You're not stuck, you're choosing to be stuck. If my wife teased me with affectionate touching and then rejected my reciprocation I wouldn't tolerate it at all. I would give her a short lecture about how sexual intimacy is the most important component of any marriage, therefore it's healthy, and she has a severe misunderstanding about how to treat a spouse with love and respect.

Make her go to therapy or start putting a plan together for yourself to leave the relationship if she keeps rejecting therapy.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

I would agree, she just has this huge unknown over my head. Because of our DV incident a few years ago she always threatens to use the police if need be (again you can see previous posts) and the cops told me then if they ever have to come back here they don't care if it was me who called they'll lock me up. She'll say or do whatever it takes to get her way. I have to protect my kids and if i don't budge she starts saying she'll leave. One time my daughter heard her say that and she flipped it was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever heard in my life. My daughter crying for her mom not to leave. I of course cave at that point. 

I agree she needs counseling she needs to be an adult. However she essentially has our life and livelihood with a gun to it's head. If I step out man oh man. I don't know what'll happen, police I'll get smacked around again, yelled at screamed at. It's almost easier and safer for me to just keep it peaceful.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

matman said:


> I would agree, she just has this huge unknown over my head. Because of our DV incident a few years ago she always threatens to use the police if need be (again you can see previous posts) and the cops told me then if they ever have to come back here they don't care if it was me who called they'll lock me up. She'll say or do whatever it takes to get her way. I have to protect my kids and if i don't budge she starts saying she'll leave. One time my daughter heard her say that and she flipped it was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever heard in my life. My daughter crying for her mom not to leave. I of course cave at that point.
> 
> I agree she needs counseling she needs to be an adult. However she essentially has our life and livelihood with a gun to it's head. If I step out man oh man. I don't know what'll happen, police I'll get smacked around again, yelled at screamed at. It's almost easier and safer for me to just keep it peaceful.


You're being controlled. If I were you, I would seek help tell them everything you have said here, and let them advise you on what your next step is. Separation is what comes to mind. Its no way to live. I think you're not only dealing with a person with childlike qualities but one that might be a bit of a loose cannon as well, sorry.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

I don't think you are missing anything. Your wife has some severe deep rooted emotional & sexual experience from her past that is affecting your marriage today. The reason your wife tells you that there is no problem is because she doesn't want to acknowledge that she is a problem or the problem. AND NEVER, NEVER, NEVER under any circumstances ever tell or allude to to your wife that she is a problem or has problems. Big no, no!

Most people don't like to acknowledge they have issues, trauma, hurt, etc. That is what counseling is for...to bring this past hurts to light, so that they are dealt with. And probably the very mentioning of counseling will bring about world war 3 in your marriage for the day. Of course, communication is always the key, but you need two to tango.

So the question is, "How do I effectively communicate with my wife that she needs to see a counselor?" And to add to that, "How do I bring it up whereas it won't put her down and won't cause her to get mad at me?" That is really tough to answer. If you are a praying individual (which I suspect you are), than you need to commit this to prayer. Pray without ceasing! Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and thanksgiving! There are negative roots in your wife's past that are causing great consternation and trust in her marriage and it needs to be addressed.

Okay, if you two are not the praying type or that you can't pray with our wife, than you need to effectively conveys with her how her responses to your advances are effecting the intimacy of your marriage (from your standpoint and desires). Don't allow her to let up on this issue and to pawn it off as it is not an issue...because it really is. No need to be blinded, ignorant, and evasive to what is really at hand. You need to press the issue with her, but not in a condescending forceful way that demands. Be gentle and ginger with your approach. Maybe wait for a non-intimate time where she is having a good day.

I will be praying for you two!


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

If you are that worried about her calling the police and making false accusations I think you should handle this almost in an intervention type of way. Have a very close friend (or two) who is friends with both of you there when you tell her that she needs to go to therapy with you or you will be leaving. Then you have witnesses so that she cannot call the police and lie about the situation nor will she be likely to physically attack you.

I haven't read your other posts but this just sounds like an unlivable situation. I feel like you should give her an ultimatum and if she doesn't follow through you need to leave. If she is this unbalanced it isn't a great environment for the kids to be around either.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Thank you all. I am not a praying person at all but a good vibe is just as strong for me LOL. The deal is i love her, i care for her I know she isn't really "this way" an intervention would be great if I had friends. None of her friends or family would help me I think. I think instead i need to find a way to live with this. I am sure I'm just having a bad day. Just an update. Sent me this post this morning 16 Ways I Blew My Marriage

told her I thought it was great but no response to a call or text finally she called me and ripped my head off about being busy all day and she doesn't just get to sit on her ass and work. She's busy with the kids. I tried to kindly point out she says that every time we fight and when we aren't fighting it's all day with nice little messages and photos of the kids. Suddenly she doesn't have time when we're fighting and when we aren't she does. Then she flat out told me that she doesn't want to make an effort when we're fighting. I said but then we'd never talk about it because as soon as i'm home and done working because she just goes in "her" room (when we are fighting it's her house her room) and that's it. Her response was "hopefully!, i don't want to talk to you at all" 

Like holy **** right there's nothing i can say and no opportunity to make this better.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

How old are your kids? Your wife stays home with them all day? Any times her whereabouts can go unseen?


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

matman said:


> I don't mean to be sexist but I had always had in my head that while women can enjoy sex they don't find any need for it or desire. My wife has backed that up along with her friends and her sisters who i've heard complain about having to have sex etc etc enough women i've encountered had echoed that that I have started to believe it. I always thought that was just a ridiculous thing that men who weren't getting sex or who where horrible partners would say but the vast majority of women I've been involved with and been around view it as a chore for sure.


I feel bad for those women. They are really missing out then. No...my relationship has the opposite dynamic going. My husband can do without it (at least from me. I'm sure he is self-sufficient when he wants to be) but I get angry when I don't get it. LOL


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Jamison said:


> You're being controlled. If I were you, I would seek help tell them everything you have said here, and let them advise you on what your next step is. Separation is what comes to mind. Its no way to live. I think you're not only dealing with a person with childlike qualities but one that might be a bit of a loose cannon as well, sorry.


:iagree:


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

matman said:


> Thank you all. I am not a praying person at all but a good vibe is just as strong for me LOL. The deal is i love her, i care for her I know she isn't really "this way" .


But she is "this way". If she wasn't, you wouldn't be here asking for advice dear.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

matman said:


> I don't mean to be sexist but I had always had in my head that while women can enjoy sex they don't find any need for it or desire.


 Read "His Needs Her Needs" today. After you have read it, read the opening chapters out loud to her. It will tell you that the number one need of men in a marraige is sex. Your need for sex is normal. Her mistreating you the way that she does is not.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Day Dream: I think something i.e. depression has set in and she wasn't that way before I became a terrible person for a few years (since recovered) I screwed up her life that much is clear. I do deserve a lot of this. However i just have trouble drawing the line I guess. Our perfect little girls are 1 and 5 and she has them all day. She's a fantastic mother very attentive just loses it when I'm around. My girls are crazy about her. I don't worry for one second about them with her. Nothing goes bad until i'm around. 

She is a loose cannon but a loose cannon loaded with nukes is something to be reckoned with and will be negotiated with. Day Dream: I also feel your husband is very lucky but I'm willing to bet he's never done anything to betray your trust which i have plenty of times to her. 

She called me again and said "Just to be crystal clear, we will never ever have sex again do you understand me? if you need it go get it somewhere else I don't give a f$%$" and also that she'd rather "slit her throat (her actual words) than have sex with me"

She also clarified this morning that this is not an issue with men or sex it's an issue with me she doesn't trust me doesn't want me and doesn't feel I respect her.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

matman said:


> Day Dream: I think something i.e. depression has set in and she wasn't that way before I became a terrible person for a few years (since recovered) I screwed up her life that much is clear. I do deserve a lot of this. However i just have trouble drawing the line I guess. Our perfect little girls are 1 and 5 and she has them all day. She's a fantastic mother very attentive just loses it when I'm around. My girls are crazy about her. I don't worry for one second about them with her. Nothing goes bad until i'm around.
> 
> She is a loose cannon but a loose cannon loaded with nukes is something to be reckoned with and will be negotiated with. Day Dream: I also feel your husband is very lucky but I'm willing to bet he's never done anything to betray your trust which i have plenty of times to her.
> 
> ...


Ouch. I see. I understand now. I'm wondering if that is how she feels, if reconciliation is possible and if it would not be best for you guys to let go of the marriage. Let's see what others think...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

matman said:


> Day Dream: I think something i.e. depression has set in and she wasn't that way before I became a terrible person for a few years (since recovered) I screwed up her life that much is clear. I do deserve a lot of this. However i just have trouble drawing the line I guess. Our perfect little girls are 1 and 5 and she has them all day. She's a fantastic mother very attentive just loses it when I'm around. My girls are crazy about her. I don't worry for one second about them with her. Nothing goes bad until i'm around.
> 
> She is a loose cannon but a loose cannon loaded with nukes is something to be reckoned with and will be negotiated with. Day Dream: I also feel your husband is very lucky but I'm willing to bet he's never done anything to betray your trust which i have plenty of times to her.
> 
> ...


Take her up on it divorce her and have sex with someone else. I hope one day you will see all the abuse you have been taking.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

matman said:


> Day Dream: I think something i.e. depression has set in and she wasn't that way before I became a terrible person for a few years (since recovered) I screwed up her life that much is clear. I do deserve a lot of this. However i just have trouble drawing the line I guess. Our perfect little girls are 1 and 5 and she has them all day. She's a fantastic mother very attentive just loses it when I'm around. My girls are crazy about her. I don't worry for one second about them with her. Nothing goes bad until i'm around.
> 
> She is a loose cannon but a loose cannon loaded with nukes is something to be reckoned with and will be negotiated with. Day Dream: I also feel your husband is very lucky but I'm willing to bet he's never done anything to betray your trust which i have plenty of times to her.
> 
> ...


I know it sounds stupid, but the only way you will get her back is to leave. You can't allow her to talk to you like this. She will never respect you which means she will never desire you.

Tell her you are sorry for what you did to her in the past. Tell her you love her and want her, but you can't live in a sexless marriage. 

Tell her you are leaving, but do not leave until you have child custody agreed to. You will probably also have to talk about child support/alimony.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

tom67 said:


> Take her up on it divorce her and have sex with someone else. I hope one day you will see all the abuse you have been taking.


I thought of that but realized it's entrapment. The reason she wants me to do that is so that if she decides to leave she can rightfully claim alimony. No I'm for reconciliation I'm a tough guy I can take it. Besides i want to have sex with her not sex in general. She's worth it when she's healthy. Divorce is such a depressing horrible thought to me. I really appreciate your support, everyone. It means a lot to have someone listen.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

matman said:


> She also clarified this morning that this is not an issue with men or sex it's an issue with me she doesn't trust me doesn't want me and doesn't feel I respect her.


Doesn't want you huh? Well there ya go, hand her separation papers. She is telling you what she wants/doesn't want. I'm sure she will act like a child if you do, but thats ok a child is what you're dealing with, proceed anyway.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

for better or for worse. I sent this to her. Because I believe that she needs to be broken through too every once in awhile. I can't lose by sending this to her and it's the truth. 

This is a quote from Arlo Guthrie about losing his wife just a few days ago. It really touched me and made me think of you. 


The sun rose on my world this morning. Jackie stayed with us throughout the night, lingering in our hearts just out of sight but clearly present. She woke me before sunrise in a dream saying that the hour had come when she would need to leave us and be gone before the sun arose. As her words awakened me I walked outside and stood looking over the river talking with her in the predawn twilight we both loved so much. It was our time and for years she brought me coffee as I took photographs of morning on the river. There are loves, and there are LOVES. Ours was and will continue to be what it has always been – A very great love. We didn’t always like each other. From time to time there were moments when we’d have our bags packed by the door. But, there was this great love that we shared from the moment we met – a recognition – It’s YOU! And we would always return to it year after year, decade after decade and I believe life after lifetime.


This is all I want for us truly. If i need to go way the hell out of my way to prove i trust you and respect you I'll do it. If you need more or less of anything from me I'll do it. i'm crazy about you, I miss you I love you I want you. I can't read your mind and i can't guess how things are going for you. You need to tell me, if in order to tell me I need to ask I will. You don't get it how bad i miss you. I'm stupid sometimes i don't connect the dots i live in moments often and don't think about the fact that it's only been 2 days of not killing each other or whatever. It was stupid wrong and grossly hurtful. I am apologizing now for it and it will not happen again. You have me saying this in writing right here. You do and or take whatever time be it months or years to decide about me. I will be here no matter what if you want me to be in any capacity you want me to be. 



Maybe that will get through to her.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

50 Shades of Crazy when she doesn't get her way......

Husband has to walk on eggshells or she will call the police on him & have him arrested for domestic violence.

Says she "will slit her throat" if husband touches her....& you think she is a"fantastic Mother".........

My vote is bipolar or BPD.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

matman said:


> for better or for worse. I sent this to her. Because I believe that she needs to be broken through too every once in awhile. I can't lose by sending this to her and it's the truth.
> 
> This is a quote from Arlo Guthrie about losing his wife just a few days ago. It really touched me and made me think of you.
> 
> ...


It's mostly a great message you made here, but I bolded the part of it that really concerns me. What you're basically saying here is that you are giving her all the power to decide the fate of your relationship, and you will wait for her to make that decision no matter what. This kind of translates into "Treat me like sh!t for as long as you need to, I'll be here by your side no matter what."

Basically by saying this you're essentially removing all the consequences for her bad behavior, so there's no real reason for her to improve the way she treats you. When you remove consequence, you remove motivation.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> It's mostly a great message you made here, but I bolded the part of it that really concerns me. What you're basically saying here is that you are giving her all the power to decide the fate of your relationship, and you will wait for her to make that decision no matter what. This kind of translates into "Treat me like sh!t for as long as you need to, I'll be here by your side no matter what."
> 
> Basically by saying this you're essentially removing all the consequences for her bad behavior, so there's no real reason for her to improve the way she treats you. When you remove consequence, you remove motivation.


**** you're right I didn't think about that. i was just trying to let her know I'd be patient.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

It's okay to be patient. Patience is a virtue, right? It is not okay to be spoken to with such contempt and disrespect. But you allow it, waving the white flag of surrender, in order to keep peace at any price.

Until your wife actually sees consequences for her actions, be prepared to live in this hell. Okay, you messed up big time. That is the past. And she has it down pat when it comes to throwing it in your face in order to manipulate and demean you.

So you are being eaten up with guilt. She keeps bringing it up as justification to treat you like a piece of crap, and you keep buying into it.

There is nothing anyone can say here that is going to get you to separate from her to give her the wake-up call she needs. 

The sad thing is, you'll be in this same spot a year from now unless you do something. And patiently waiting is doing something - in a nothing kinda way. Very sad.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> It's okay to be patient. Patience is a virtue, right? It is not okay to be spoken to with such contempt and disrespect. But you allow it, waving the white flag of surrender, in order to keep peace at any price.
> 
> Until your wife actually sees consequences for her actions, be prepared to live in this hell. Okay, you messed up big time. That is the past. And she has it down pat when it comes to throwing it in your face in order to manipulate and demean you.
> 
> ...


You're making me really think here. Would me leaving ever actually make her see the consequences? I mean I would think it's the cherry on top "and then he left me with two kids (she made it clear if i leave i don't see my kids)" i can see that being the endcap and she just would go on thinking that I was a piece of crap person.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Okay, for one she doesn't have the power to keep you from seeing your kids so that is a moot point. The courts decide that. She can only send you to jail for domestic violence if it actually occurs. And you need to separate one way or another until you guys either work through your problems or decide it isn't worth it. She's totally got you cowed.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Matman, what are you doing? The things she has said to you are horrible and they cannot be forgiven. You cannot allow yourself to be spoken to in that way by your own wife and you cannot continue with this marriage. You have kids involved and that sucks but I believe them hearing their mother talk to their father like that will do more damage than a divorce ever could. Record her saying some of these things to you if you want evidence or a reminder of how horrible she was to you but you have to get out of there and you have to fight hard to make sure you get custody or at least get visitation rights with your kids. And therapy will be helpful. Healthy people do not put up with such treatment.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

matman said:


> You're making me really think here. Would me leaving ever actually make her see the consequences? I mean I would think it's the cherry on top "and then he left me with two kids (she made it clear if i leave i don't see my kids)" i can see that being the endcap and she just would go on thinking that I was a piece of crap person.


More threats & abuse. Let the courts decide about your kids.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Oh, and she ain't no better than you, if you were a "bad person," for the simple fact that she is acting like a piece of **** right now herself by threatening to keep your kids from you and threatening to call the police. Unless she really does have something to worry about. Were you abusive?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

matman said:


> I would think it's the cherry on top "and then he left me with two kids (she made it clear if i leave i don't see my kids)" i can see that being the endcap and she just would go on thinking that I was a piece of crap person.


You are what-if'ing and "awfulizing." To begin with, she does not have power over whether or not you see your kids - the court has jurisdiction.

So what if she thinks you're a "piece of crap person." If I let my estranged husband's opinions of me - which are none of my business, by the way - color my decisions in life, I'd still be sitting in the middle of a stinkin' little agricultural hick town with a raging alkie on my hands.

You are playing the cards of fear, because you are giving her total and complete power to deal you that hand. And she's damn good at it.

If you want to wade into the shark-infested waters of WHAT-IF, by all means do so. You are remaining stuck because all you see is her pulling your strings.

Whether she is suffering from past trauma, is bipolar, or whatever-label-you-want-to-put-on-her-behavior, I don't care. Because I don't care for labels. She wants a label? Let her go read the DSM-IV or see a psychiatrist. She's not posting here. You are.

And she's got you right where she wants you. You're afraid she'll call the police on you and have you carted off to jail. You're afraid you will never see your kids again. You are afraid to confront her because you can't find two people to be there to witness what transpires. You are afraid of her childish, petulant rages.

You've got yourself a huge plate of fear. As long as you continue to eat from that plate, you are going nowhere. Your wife's manipulation and guilt-tripping of you is downright sadistic. But you love her. And you are patient. So you will stay.

You are gonna be stuck in one living hell on earth if you remain entrenched in the cycle of fear that you are in. Something to consider.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

If I lived under the constant threat of false domestic violence, I would leave my blackmailer.

OP, you are a free man living in the U.S.A. - go see a lawyer before you snap & grab her arm or something.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Your wife is bipolar! I am utterly convinced of it. I have seen this played out in several friend's relationships. You live in this chaotic marriage on roller coasters...sometimes you are up, but more often than not, you are down and everyone suffers as a result. The bipolar thinks, "If I am not happy, no one else gets to be." Statistically, bipolar relationship are nearly difficult to maintain.

One of my friend's wife would not give him sex unless he paid her $50, so that she could spend it on "household items." They were very poor, barely making it and she felt as though she needed $50 a month. My poor friend didn't even have that much to give her and she withheld, but they would have it once a month, when she was close to her period and just use him as a tool to get off on, but he was never permitted to touch her and she always had to be on top, and the lights always had to be off. That was 100% of their marriage...they are in divorce now and she is one of the most bitter persons I know. Very sad and unfortunate.

I commend you for standing your ground and honoring marriage...a commend you greatly. Do NOT leave...stand it out...because that is what love is my friend. Love does not abandon. Your wife has extra emotional needs and she needs help. It would be great if the two of you could do marriage counseling together. Above all else, do some research on bipolar on the internet and see what it talks about...you will find your wife fulfills the definition.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

forevermemorable said:


> Your wife is bipolar! I am utterly convinced of it. I have seen this played out in several friend's relationships. You live in this chaotic marriage on roller coasters...sometimes you are up, but more often than not, you are down and everyone suffers as a result. The bipolar thinks, "If I am not happy, no one else gets to be." Statistically, bipolar relationship are nearly difficult to maintain.
> 
> One of my friend's wife would not give him sex unless he paid her $50, so that she could spend it on "household items." They were very poor, barely making it and she felt as though she needed $50 a month. My poor friend didn't even have that much to give her and she withheld, but they would have it once a month, when she was close to her period and just use him as a tool to get off on, but he was never permitted to touch her and she always had to be on top, and the lights always had to be off. That was 100% of their marriage...they are in divorce now and she is one of the most bitter persons I know. Very sad and unfortunate.
> 
> I commend you for standing your ground and honoring marriage...a commend you greatly. Do NOT leave...stand it out...because that is what love is my friend. Love does not abandon. Your wife has extra emotional needs and she needs help. It would be great if the two of you could do marriage counseling together. Above all else, do some research on bipolar on the internet and see what it talks about...you will find your wife fulfills the definition.



Again thank you all but this is the closest to what I'm feeling. I feel she needs serious help. I am willing to walk if need be. I guess i was afraid about the kids thing because she said she'd make sure they knew about my past porn addiction and DV charge. Now about the DV there was one incident I pushed her on her shoulders and thats when she called the cops. I'm not defending what happened but i made no mention to the cops that she was screaming in my face about what a little ***** I was and I was a piece of ****. I asked her to stop repeatedly and she finally got so that her forehead was touching mine. I snapped and said "enough" and pushed her shoulders she stumbled back and called the cops. The police said they won't ever care whats going on even if I call they will throw me in jail immediately. That's where the fear comes from. You're right i am eating off that plate but how can i not. It's real, I did have a porn addiction and she considers that cheating=alimony plus DV=no kids


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

matman said:


> Again thank you all but this is the closest to what I'm feeling. I feel she needs serious help. I am willing to walk if need be. I guess i was afraid about the kids thing because she said she'd make sure they knew about my past porn addiction and DV charge. Now about the DV there was one incident I pushed her on her shoulders and thats when she called the cops. I'm not defending what happened but i made no mention to the cops that she was screaming in my face about what a little ***** I was and I was a piece of ****. I asked her to stop repeatedly and she finally got so that her forehead was touching mine. I snapped and said "enough" and pushed her shoulders she stumbled back and called the cops. The police said they won't ever care whats going on even if I call they will throw me in jail immediately. That's where the fear comes from. You're right i am eating off that plate but how can i not. It's real, I did have a porn addiction and she considers that cheating=alimony plus DV=no kids


Don't you see what a scumbag move it is to blackmail you with your own children? She has all the power right now and she is using it for pure evil. I bet she would like nothing better than for you to take a swing at her and then send you to prison so that she can collect government checks, bask in sympathy and keep you down for the rest of your life! And if you don't get out of there she's gonna push you too far and you are going to fall right into her trap! You have one last chance to start fresh and make something of your life, please take it!


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Don't you see what a scumbag move it is to blackmail you with your own children? She has all the power right now and she is using it for pure evil. I bet she would like nothing better than for you to take a swing at her and then send you to prison so that she can collect government checks, bask in sympathy and keep you down for the rest of your life! And if you don't get out of there she's gonna push you too far and you are going to fall right into her trap! You have one last chance to start fresh and make something of your life, please take it!


OP reminds me of torture victims who fall in love with their captors to keep their sanity.

Come on...how can you love someone who abuses you, blackmails you, threatens you with felony criminal charges, threatens to take your children away.......


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Emerald said:


> OP reminds me of torture victims who fall in love with their captors to keep their sanity.
> 
> Come on...how can you love someone who abuses you, blackmails you, threatens you with felony criminal charges, threatens to take your children away.......


Yeah it's really sick and twisted and I feel really bad for the kids that have to witness this and what that means for their future!


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Don't you see what a scumbag move it is to blackmail you with your own children? She has all the power right now and she is using it for pure evil. I bet she would like nothing better than for you to take a swing at her and then send you to prison so that she can collect government checks, bask in sympathy and keep you down for the rest of your life! And if you don't get out of there she's gonna push you too far and you are going to fall right into her trap! You have one last chance to start fresh and make something of your life, please take it!


I am in charge of me and my actions. I would never do anything to hurt her ever again. I am starting to record all conversations as i have an iphone and emailing them to an account she has no access too. I am going to take measures to protect myself should i leave or should she do this ****. However I am a forever optimist and believe in change and people doing right so I still have some faith in her. I recognize I'm at a crossroads here so if I prepare for the worst and hope for the best I can't lose. Oh and I've started keeping a journal of all the **** going down.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

matman said:


> Again thank you all but this is the closest to what I'm feeling. I feel she needs serious help. I am willing to walk if need be. I guess i was afraid about the kids thing because she said she'd make sure they knew about my past porn addiction and DV charge. Now about the DV there was one incident I pushed her on her shoulders and thats when she called the cops. I'm not defending what happened but i made no mention to the cops that she was screaming in my face about what a little ***** I was and I was a piece of ****. I asked her to stop repeatedly and she finally got so that her forehead was touching mine. I snapped and said "enough" and pushed her shoulders she stumbled back and called the cops. The police said they won't ever care whats going on even if I call they will throw me in jail immediately. That's where the fear comes from. You're right i am eating off that plate but how can i not. It's real, I did have a porn addiction and she considers that cheating=alimony plus DV=no kids


I suspect you have more to fear than that. I hope I'm wrong and she is simply a BPD case or bipolar or addicted to meth or whatever else, but I'm getting a different vibe and it's not a good one. Her behavior is very consistent with a spouse who knows her children have been sexually abused by her partner and doesn't know how to get away and support her children, too.

I know perfectly well that if this *is* the case, there's no way in hell it'll ever be admitted in here, so I'll pretend that I'm right and let everyone blast me for wrongfully accusing someone without evidence. Please understand that I am not judging. I've seen good and bad traits in nearly everyone I've ever met, so I'll take a neutral stance. 

Anyway, if my suspicions are correct and she thinks you've molested your children, she will feel tremendous self-hate and resentment toward you that cannot be addressed adequately through counseling or otherwise as long as she's still with you. She will feel so ashamed that she will not talk to anyone, and her best method for coping is to control your access to other people's bodies - her own and your children. When it gets too much, she could hurt herself, hurt you, or if she's a real fighter, she will break down and go to the cops with actual evidence instead of emotion and unfounded statements.

You'd be better off leaving her and paying alimony.

Pedophiles don't magically stop being attracted to the targets that stimulate them any more than a woman who loves men is going to magically decide only to feel attracted to giraffes. People who like blue-eyed blonds will continue to find them alluring even when they date a brunette. However, pedophiles can and should learn to channel and restrict their interest to what the law permits, so if I'm right, leaving and not stepping in it again are the only ways to preserve your life and your sanity.

If I am wrong, then protecting yourself as you have been is a good thing and won't invite her to fight back harder in a way that could condemn your life. I'd be looking for drugs, keeping a journal, and getting familiar with the parental alienation syndrome.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Yeah it's really sick and twisted and I feel really bad for the kids that have to witness this and what that means for their future!


The kids witness very little she's really tuned into that. She will take them across the street to her mom's so that we can "talk" which I'm glad for but many times i've had to remind her not in front of the kids. I'm guilty of it to though i'll argue. I think disagreeing in front of the kids is good because it shows them how to solve problems. I just want to make sure we don't start fighting in front of them. I'll leave if things don't change I'm not a complete idiot though it sounds like many of you think i am. It's hard to explain to someone who has never been there.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

matman said:


> I think disagreeing in front of the kids is good because it shows them how to solve problems.


I have 3 kids and I disagree. Don't bring your kids into your marital problems, because it doesn't concern them. And how often can you communicate effectively, sincerely, peacefully, amicably without getting into a fight or a heated argument?

I don't think you are an idiot at all. I think you are doing the right thing with bringing this matter up before this forum, to seek out counsel. It is a wise choice. And you might need to make a lot more wise decisions in the near and far future in regards with a possibility of divorce. Divorce is a big EXPENSIVE & BITTER game. I am watching 3 friends of mine go through right now...nothing but ugliness and money...lots and lots of money wasted on useless lawyers that really could careless about your predicament. But...be wise and do your homework now, IF she pursues the divorce route.

Like I said before, I have had a friend who came home to find his wife and kids gone expectantly. My friend never cheated, never abused, etc. It was his wife that was the aggressor and she has played the court system the way a nasty bitter angry wife does. Its not fun! And the courts rarely find in favor of the husband/father. Its just how the legal system works. BUT, if you do your homework now, you can find out ways to protect yourself IF your marriage goes down that path (I truly and hope it doesn't). Check the legal forums somewhere...a great place to start.

I can give you some legal advice practicably, but only if you request it.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

forevermemorable said:


> I have 3 kids and I disagree. Don't bring your kids into your marital problems, because it doesn't concern them. And how often can you communicate effectively, sincerely, peacefully, amicably without getting into a fight or a heated argument?
> 
> I don't think you are an idiot at all. I think you are doing the right thing with bringing this matter up before this forum, to seek out counsel. It is a wise choice. And you might need to make a lot more wise decisions in the near and far future in regards with a possibility of divorce. Divorce is a big EXPENSIVE & BITTER game. I am watching 3 friends of mine go through right now...nothing but ugliness and money...lots and lots of money wasted on useless lawyers that really could careless about your predicament. But...be wise and do your homework now, IF she pursues the divorce route.
> 
> ...


I would love some advice are you an attorney? just send me a private message if you don't mind though.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

I have been helping 2 of my friends through their divorces and I have researched beyond belief, filled out paperwork, etc. etc. etc. Although, states vary on how they go about handling divorce.

Let me speak to you from a California perspective, which as I said, laws are pretty much the same with a few differences here and there. If you let me know what state you live in, I can give you a more concrete look on it.

Who is in possession of the kids at the time of separation is KEY! This is a stupid crazy thing, but who has control of the kids is who is deemed to have them until the legal proceedings take place, which is usually 2 months. However, an expedited hearing can be establish, but they will only give partial custody the parent who is not in possession, unless there is reason to believe the kids are in danger. If your wife is as crazy as you say, you may just want to file for a restraining order, which would not allow her to have access to your home or the kids. She could only have access to your home with a police officer present and only to get personal items (i.e. clothes, makeup, etc.). I would make sure you file for a legal separation/divorce first. Becoming the petitioner is better. If you have a low income, I would file for a pro bono attorney or free legal aid ASAP, because the free legal aid in your county can only represent one party pertaining (due to conflict of interest). So, its all a matter of who files the paperwork first, to secure the free attorney; otherwise, you are hiring your own attorney or filing as a Pro Per (by yourself, representing yourself).

Its all a game of cat and mouse. And that is just the start of it! And only pray that a 730 evaluation is not ordered, because those are expensive. I have a friend paying $10K - $12K for that one. You can also request a psych evaluation on her. If you have criminal history of abuse, that will hurt you.

Homework, homework, homework. In fact, given your situation, I would make sure you do it now so that you are at least aware and prepared in case of something like this happens. Too many people are unprepared, unequipped, and way inexperienced with any legal proceedings that they get tired and burned out really fast and give up.

Let me stop right there, so I don't talk your ear off. I can send you some videos and other literature for your state, so you can at least educate yourself of the proceedings. But the legal proceedings don't reveal that above info...that is the unspoken treasures you will need to know.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Please keep one thing in mind: the states determine domestic law issues. As far as I know, only kidnapping is a felony that comes under the auspices of federal law. If you live in CA and get advice from a CA attorney, great. If you live elsewhere, the laws differ.

If you don't want to leave at this time, please get your ducks in a row. Do you have any joint accounts? Joint credit cards? Is the house titled in both names? See an attorney, talk to your accountant (if you have one), and know where you stand.

I am not fond of people diagnosing online. Is your wife bipolar? Maybe. Maybe not. What tips me off that something is not quite right here is the fact that she will send the kids elsewhere so you can have one of your "talks." Premeditated. She plans her torture sessions.

Also, the police saying that even if you call about a domestic disturbance they will toss you in jail? Really? Why is that? So here's what I'm getting from that statement: the cops will come in, not bother reading you your Mirandas, slap on the cuffs, and toss you in a cell. Even if there is no substantive evidence of a fight; such as, the furniture is knocked over, wife's hair is a disheveled, you are agitated. 

Something doesn't quite add up here. You have one DV. How was that settled? Were the charges dropped? 

So why don't you tell us the entire story, because just like Kathy B., my gut is telling me you are editing this story a bit.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

forevermemorable said:


> Let me speak to you from a California perspective, which as I said, laws are pretty much the same with a few differences here and there.


Uh, excuse me; not to hijack the matman's thread because he is dealing with extremely serious issues, BUT the laws are not "pretty much" the same in every state. CA is a community property state, whereas OR (or MD, or PA, etc.) are equity states. There is a difference in how property is divided. There is also the issue of longevity of marriage. The states generally go with 10 years-plus on that.



forevermemorable said:


> If your wife is as crazy as you say, you may just want to file for a restraining order, which would not allow her to have access to your home or the kids ....


"matman" is dealing with a prior DV and claiming the police will lock him up if he so much as calls them during one of the arguments. Not true, but the local law enforcement people have him convinced otherwise. Sounds like getting a restraining order against her could be problematical, given his prior.

FYI - My husband, who is an engineer, mounted a pro se against the State of Arizona. It was shot down. He now thinks he's Perry Mason. Judges are not fond of people coming into their courtrooms without legal counsel. Actually, they're not always friendly to those of us who are!

Matman - Please go see a local attorney who specializes in family law. Many attorneys will give you a free 15-minute consultation.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Judges are not fond of people coming into their courtrooms without legal counsel. Actually, they're not always friendly to those of us who are!


If it isn't family law, I totally agree with you about this. Family lawyers are a joke and very expensive at that. Do you know the economy in which we live in. People just don't have the money to hire lawyers. Case in point, my friend makes $12 an hour, full time work. His lawyer is $400 an hour. Has has already paid $7,500 and owes him $19,000...his lawyer let him go without really solving anything, all because the debt he owes his family law attorney is so high. My friend is now Pro Per. And he has to pay $10K-12K for a 730 evaluation, which the physiologist will not turn in the paperwork until all the money is paid...that is another dilemma!

I have sat through many family law cases and most individuals are actually represented by themselves and the judges know this and work with the individuals. I had another friend go to divorce court whereas his wife did not show up and the judge actually got her on the telephone and spoke with her about the case some...he didn't penalize or doc her at all...how crazy is that. Who has ever heard of such a thing?

Attorneys cost a lot of money and in family law...the hourly rate goes up really fast with all the paperwork that has to be turned in. Its a sad day when it comes to divorce...a sad, sad, day.

Avoid it like the plague! And above all else, stick together at least for the kid's sake. They are the ones who will suffer the most as a result. Precious little lambs!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Emerald said:


> My vote is bipolar or BPD.


Emerald, it is funny you should vote for "BPD." Back in April, Matman did too. On 4/5 he said _"I truly believe this is BPD any input and help from someone who has dealt with this before?"_ In response, I wrote (4/7) that _"the behaviors you describe -- temper tantrums, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, and very controlling actions -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)."_ I also pointed him to some online information about BPD. Unfortunately, he never responded to my post. Instead, Matman abandoned that thread and started several new ones.


matman said:


> I truly believe this is BPD.... [4/5/12 post]


Matman, I am not yet convinced you are describing a strong pattern of BPD traits. For red flags of BPD to be present, your W's abusive behavior would have to be strong and reasonably persistent over the seven years of your marriage. Because strong BPD traits are believed to be created in childhood, they do not completely vanish for a two or three years at the beginning of the marriage. Rather, they typically disappear for only 4 to 6 months during the courtship period (perhaps for a year if you had been dating long distance). 

I mention this because, in your 12 threads, I've never seen a description of just _how long_ your W's outrageous, abusive behavior has been going on and _when_ it started showing itself. I therefore share Kathy's feeling that you seem to be withholding some important information from us. Regardless of whether you are or not, your practice of splitting up your story among a dozen threads makes it very difficult for any of us to make sense of it all.

That said, the behaviors you describe are so abusive, mean-spirited, and controlling that they are typical of a BPDer or NPDer who is splitting the spouse black. According to your posts (8/26 and 9/8 of last year), these outrageous behaviors include:


_"She has since (2007) slapped me multiple times,"_
_"calls me names,"_
_"has pushed me over in a chair,"_
"she kicked my leg,"
_"broke a guitar of mine in half,"_
_"constantly talks about divorcing me,"_
_"given me the silent treatment for 4 days.,"_
_"We've had sex 3 times this year and I can't masturbate because we agreed on that," and
_
_"accused me of all sorts of things.... If I am honest, she refuses to believe it."_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

forevermemorable said:


> Do you know the economy in which we live in. People just don't have the money to hire lawyers.


Uh, yeah, I live in the U.S. I am fully cognizant of the economy in which we live. I also know that public defenders' offices are full of young attorneys who are thankful to have ANY job and will take cases pro se. See, attorneys have to pay off, on average, $100,000 in law school debt. Many are currently unemployed; thus, they work for the public defender's office or state's attorney's office. 

Look, you have given matman your diagnosis of BPD for his wife and you have given him legal advice. I am certain you are a well-meaning person. Really. But you are neither a licensed attorney or psychologist. 

The reason it costs so much for a family law attorney is most people don't have a clue about the nuances of law, nor are they familiar with who is sitting on the bench in the courtroom in which they make appearances. 



forevermemorable said:


> And above all else, stick together at least for the kid's sake. They are the ones who will suffer the most as a result. Precious little lambs!


You told matman, in one of your previous posts, to get a restraining order on his wife. Now you want them to "stick together." Sir, no disrespect intended, but please quit dispensing legal advice and psychological analysis based on what you read on the internet or through lots of "homework." Take it from me, I was baptized by fire when I had to stand up in front of 300 of my peers, and with 10 minutes of preparation, made the closing argument for the prosecution in moot court. Yes, I have a diploma on my wall saying I've gone through the legal "thing." That doesn't qualify me to freely dispense legal advice on a website.

As I previously stated, matman should visit a local attorney, if for no other reason than to be apprised of his legal standing in this specific situation. He works 12 hours a day. Pray tell, when is this man supposed to do lots of "homework"? 

Sorry for hijacking the thread!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Uptown said:


> [*]_"She has since (2007) slapped me multiple times,"_
> [*]_"calls me names,"_
> [*]_"has pushed me over in a chair,"_
> [*]"she kicked my leg,"
> ...



Thank you very much for clarifying this situation. You have answered a number of questions I had about this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

matman said:


> Thank you all. I am not a praying person at all but a good vibe is just as strong for me LOL. The deal is i love her, i care for her I know she isn't really "this way" an intervention would be great if I had friends. None of her friends or family would help me I think. I think instead i need to find a way to live with this. I am sure I'm just having a bad day. Just an update. Sent me this post this morning 16 Ways I Blew My Marriage
> 
> told her I thought it was great but no response to a call or text finally she called me and ripped my head off about being busy all day and she doesn't just get to sit on her ass and work. She's busy with the kids. I tried to kindly point out she says that every time we fight and when we aren't fighting it's all day with nice little messages and photos of the kids. Suddenly she doesn't have time when we're fighting and when we aren't she does. Then she flat out told me that she doesn't want to make an effort when we're fighting. I said but then we'd never talk about it because as soon as i'm home and done working because she just goes in "her" room (when we are fighting it's her house her room) and that's it. Her response was "hopefully!, i don't want to talk to you at all"
> 
> Like holy **** right there's nothing i can say and no opportunity to make this better.


Was that 16 ways she blew HER marriage?:scratchhead:


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Just a thought, some of you will know what im saying, 
He says "she considers that cheating" if this were in the CWI section and this was DD 
Talking to CM we would understand her feelings and even relate to them.

She does appear to suffer from some disorder here but in that context not. Im not saying her feelings or behavors are justified im just trying to open up another window.

I have not read op's other threads i will when i get to a computer.

In addition to some personality disorder could her feelings be understandable in light of her view of porn?

With that in mind I would like to invite Matman to read the newbie thread at CWI section consider the 180 and reading the married mans sex life mmsl.
Matman im hoping you will also reply to Kathy above.

Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Well my goodness I started quite a deal here. I am in Utah for all the legal stuff. Now of course I am not an idiot. I don't believe the cops would actually just walk in and slap the cuffs on me I'm generalizing. The officer said that to intimidate me I know that for a fact. He was assuming I didn't know anything I believe. He did indeed say that to me however will that happen? no but she could lie. And would I believe. I agreed with whoever (sorry so many posts) said that the bpd would be consistent. She is mean hurtful and abusive and once again my intent is to repair this. To those of you who feel that I am not telling the whole story I assure you I am. The missing piece for me is that I feel something happened to my wife in her childhood she hasn't shared. I know her dad had major anger issues growing up but as far as I've heard no abuse. Finally Kathy B. I know these are words and I can't prove or disprove something on a Internet forum but I am a damn good father and I love my children more than anything. I would never ever hurt them. I'm posting here because I need support and advice and need input about my broken marriage and home not to be accused of perversion . This is my situation. I live my life open. I will answer questions you all might have but I was extremely offended by your post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

I just responded to Kathy and realized j should not have even dignified that with a response. Further more there are no drugs I meant to add. I believe her behavior to be extreme and hurtful but based in my violation of her trust of me and rooted in something in her past a bad combination of the two plus she has admitted to me she has incredibly strong emotions both up and down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Matman,
i'm glad you responded to kathy, if you leave a question like that unanswered it can be a thread killer.

kathy is a regular poster and a good one, you wifes behavors are hard to piece together, so if it fits a profile sometimes we ask, I'm not going to try to tell you what to be offended at but its an anonymous forum and you would be supprise at what people leave out even still.

Thanks.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Matman,
Feel free not to answer this if it is a bit out of bounds.
but if the two of you are in the church there and this plays a role in her view of porn, then getting over this is more than just getting over personal hurt but also getting over personal scruples as well.

I respect that if its so, but if you care to comment about that it might help us have a better idea of what you are facing.

Either way i think this helps a lot " I believe her behavior to be extreme and hurtful but based in my violation of her trust of me and rooted in something in her past ..."


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

matman said:


> You can read all my previous posts. Something has occurred over the past two days that probably has been building very slowly and I just didn't notice until it had gotten this bad. Two nights ago we were chatting and having a great time we never just talk like we were but we end up talking for like 3hrs. It was great just shooting the **** but near the end I touched her knee at one point, she goes. "Don't" I said "touch your knee?" and she said "don't touch me ever!" i don't like you and don't trust you i feel as if I'm being molested. You know what that's like right (referring to some unwanted sexual contact a friend tried to have with me in high-school) and it killed the night needless to say.
> 
> Last night, the very next night, she cuddles up to me while watching a tv show in bed and holds my hand and starts being somewhat sexual almost. She had me playing with her hair and so i decided to make a move.
> 
> ...



Can't lie. I would probably start getting an exit strategy together.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

You can't fix her.
You can't control her.
You cannot force her to go to a doctor.

You are afraid of her; I get that. Hell, I'm afraid of her 

In your case, I'm not going to advise divorce because I feel you need to be around 24/7 to protect your children from her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

matman said:


> I agreed with whoever (sorry so many posts) said that the bpd would be consistent. She is mean hurtful and abusive and once again my intent is to repair this.


Mat, the problem is that, if she does suffer from BPD, you cannot possibly "repair this." There is nothing for you to repair. She is the only person in the world who can mend herself and, if she has strong BPD traits, it is very unlikely she will have the self awareness and ego strength to do so.

I strongly encourage you to stop beating yourself up over the "pushing" incident that occurred three years ago, wherein you had to seek treatment for your "anger issues." If you are living with a woman who is screaming hateful names while her forehead is a few inches from your forehead, it is extremely difficult for any normal adult to NOT push the other away.

I know because my BPDer exW used to chase me from room to room to scream and belittle me. I did very well in handling her occasional temper tantrums for 12 years. I had great patience and am a very laid-back guy. Indeed, when I was calming my bipolar foster son in a restaurant one day, another man -- who was leaving with his daughter -- walked up to my table and said "My hat is off to you, sir. You are amazing. You must have the patience of Job."

Even so, my body chemistry changed as I got older, as usually happens to everyone. This is why older people often get nervous around their own grandkids if they have to take care of them for more than a few hours. And this is why older folks often refuse to drive in inner-city traffic. 

The result was that, during the last 3 years of my marriage, I could not keep myself from pushing my exW away from me during her tirades in my face. It was an autonomic body response -- as occurs when suddenly pulling your hand away from a hot object -- that happened so quickly I had no real control over it. Indeed, there were three occasions when I pushed her away.

The last incident occurred after she had chased me around the apartment and I had retreated behind a bedroom door, which had no lock. Each time she opened the door to yell at me, I calmly got up and closed it and went back to my computer. On the fourth time, however, she threw the door open, trying to hit me with it right after I had closed it. It missed my head by a few inches and made a loud bang -- only inches from my ear -- when slamming against the wall. 

I instantly stepped forward and pushed her away from the door. The "push" was done before I could even think about it. This is not something you want to do to a 60 y.o. woman who is unstable on her feet. Of course, she stumbled when stepping backward and fell down. I watched in horror as she was falling backwards and then tried to help her up.

Although she was unhurt, she immediately had bruises where my palms had struck her chest -- such bruising occurs in minutes whenever a woman is on blood thinner. Of course, she recognized this as an opportunity to get me evicted from my own home. So she called the police and had me thrown into jail for "brutalizing her." She had them take photos of the bruises. This "brutalizing" occurred, I note, while her sister and our grand daughter were sitting twenty feet away behind another bedroom door watching TV. Because it was early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 full days before I could go before a judge in arraignment.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Jeeze man that's really rough my sympathies. Another clue to perhaps bi-polar?? After everything yesterday no response to my note at all just silence kids are in bed I'm doing laundry she's on the computer. Asks me to help her measure the bathroom and then is just talking with me about options to re-do it. Just daydreaming like we like to do when life is normal. She's asking my opinion on tile....WTF?? But it was peaceful I'm not complaining .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

matman said:


> Now of course I am not an idiot. I don't believe the cops would actually just walk in and slap the cuffs on me I'm generalizing. The officer said that to intimidate me I know that for a fact. He was assuming I didn't know anything I believe. He did indeed say that to me however will that happen?


Nobody here claims to be a mind-reader. You originally stated that you would be thrown in jail as fact. I can only go by what I read. I believe you have twice mentioned you are not an "idiot." Nobody here has stated you are. In fact, people are SPECULATING because you started out wanting responses PM'd to you, and after that, you started to give sketchy details.

Okay, a police officer said something to you x-number of years ago. Now you are wondering if it could indeed happen. Again, you are mired in the what-if's. The police make mistakes. No, you cannot be arrested without cause. That is not to say it doesn't happen, because it does. 




matman said:


> She is mean hurtful and abusive and once again my intent is to repair this.


Unless you are endowed with super-human powers that none of us possess, you cannot fix anyone. You can only fix yourself. We have very little control over life in general. What I say, think, and feel are (hopefully!) under my control. What anyone else does ... nope, no control. I am sure you want your wife to get well, but it doesn't sound as if she has any inclination to seek help. Until she does, you have to decide if you can live with this or not. That is the area in which you have control. 

Reading the list that uptown posted makes it appear that you are willing to live with an abusive spouse. That is your right. As your children get a bit older, they are going to start picking up on what is going on. Your wife can only hide so much. Kids are intuitive and they will sense something isn't right. I hope you can protect them as much as possible.

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are going to try riding out this marriage to the end. If so, I wish you the best. As I often say: your life, your choices.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And I apologize for stating you wanted responses PM'd to you. That was the request of another poster on this forum. My mistake. Best of luck with your situation. I hope you find peace of mind.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

Had a very long talk with my wife last night. I feel she may have hit somewhat of a "low point" she did not get out of bed at all yesterday and was just all around very depressed. I was thrilled that I got to spend my day with my kids and we just had a great time. At night after the kids were asleep, she came out and rationally spoke with me about some things. While she did not apologize outright for everything she did allow that things are a little nuts with her. I'll take anything at this point, she did say something interesting. Her dad scared the **** out of her when they were little, slamming doors, cubbards etc etc screaming at her mom and he would punish with spanking but there was a belt sometimes. That was news to me i knew about the yelling, didn't know how bad it was and def didn't know about the spanking. 

Our intense fighting and teh DV thing 3 years ago takes here there. She now says she feels out of control if she doesn't have complete control of arguments. She has to "out crazy" me as she put it. However I think in the 3 years since she failed to notice me calming down and becoming someone different and she acknowledged this to a degree. Overall we arrived at really practicing working on disagreeing not fighting and setup some really strict (and to outsiders maybe silly in appearance) rules to accomodate a major change like this. 

She's still unwilling to hug me or make any contact with me but that's ok for now I'm willing to take my time. I was in it for the long-haul with her from the get-go.


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

OH Matman...I am soooo sorry you are here.....PLEASE listen to Uptown and others....YOU CANNOT FIX HER!!! And because you now know you can't fix BPD, you are hoping it is something else...

NEWS FLASH...trying to fix a person with BPD will
1) Drive your stress level thru the roof, high blood pressure, etc
2) You will push others away trying to get their help and talk to them
3) You will feel completely crazy, alone, and lost...

How do I know? I have a BPD family member (more than one I think now that I know what I know). They will DESTROY you if you let them...trust me...I tried to fix her, I'm a fixer....2 years later my husband and I are still trying to put our relationship back together....and still trying to save my nephew from his "crazy momma". PLEASE do a little lurking on Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners and read some more of Uptowns posts.....we know what we speak of...and wish better for you....good luck...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I can't believe that if your wife has BPD, she isn't exhibiting this behavior in front of your kids. Even if she isn't, your kids are going to grow up seeing an unhappy father, maybe even one in jail for DV (true or not) while their mother goes off the deep end.

You have to fix this now and that may mean leaving, if for no other reason but to force her hand into professional help.

You are somewhat strong now, but I can almost guarantee you that sooner or later, you will crack, maybe when it's too late.


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## matman (Aug 26, 2011)

I agree that it could get to a point. The fact that she maintains some control around the kids and our conversation last night (with her admiting something is wrong, never happened before) it's steering me away from BPD and perhaps into good ol fashioned depression?? 

From what I've read the ability to think is essentially hampered in a BPD case however the behavior seems almost calculated in some sense. It would make sense if it was intentionally trying to "out crazy me" as she put it. I used to be mad and slamming doors and stuff way back when I was depressed however as soon as i found out her dad did that stuff. I stopped immediately realizing the place it probably put her in. I only found out last night that it was worse than I'd originally thought. Framing things in that context leads me away from the BPD thing. Thoughts?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

matman said:


> Our intense fighting and teh DV thing 3 years ago takes here there. She now says she feels out of control if she doesn't have complete control of arguments. She has to "out crazy" me as she put it. However I think in the 3 years since she failed to notice me calming down and becoming someone different and she acknowledged this to a degree. Overall we arrived at really practicing working on disagreeing not fighting and setup some really strict (and to outsiders maybe silly in appearance) rules to accomodate a major change like this.
> 
> She's still unwilling to hug me or make any contact with me but that's ok for now I'm willing to take my time. I was in it for the long-haul with her from the get-go.


So, basically she's still controlling the situation. Okay, BPD isn't the latest diagnosis; it's depression. Yes, she sounds depressed. She also has a need to control that sounds rather pathological. However, it keeps her from addressing what really went down from growing up in a rather violent home environment.

I think you need to quit trying to diagnose her or figure her out. If she was willing to get into counseling, she could start on the road to facing her demons, figuring out why she behaves as she does, and trying to heal the marriage.

At this time, it doesn't appear she wants that. She wants rules to control future disagreements. I don't know how long you'll find that acceptable. As a rule, people don't like to be controlled or told what to do. Still, if things calm down to the point that you can tolerate it, then it may work for you. Only time will tell.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

matman said:


> The fact that she maintains some control around the kids and our conversation last night (with her admiting something is wrong, never happened before) it's steering me away from BPD and perhaps into good ol fashioned depression??


Mat, "maintaining some control" does not rule out her having strong BPD traits. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning folks who maintain control all day long around business associates, casual friends, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment). 

Their fears, then, are usually triggered only by the loved ones, namely the spouse. Yet, even around the spouse, a HF BPDer is not "out of control." As I discussed before, if you doubt that, simply call the police the next time you see a BPDer throwing an "out of control" temper tantrum. As soon as there is a knock on the front door, you will witness an instant transformation into the calmest, gentlest person you've ever seen. Like a spoiled 4 year old, a HF BPDer can control herself whenever she has an incentive to do so.

As to her "admitting something is wrong" for the first time, that action also does NOT rule out strong BPD traits. My BPDer exW, for example, had such moments -- on about six occasions during our 15 years together -- when she would admit -- in a vague generalized way -- to having serious issues. This is so common among BPDers that the "Non" partners and spouses have a name for it: "moments of clarity." 

Unlike NPDers, BPDers are aware that "something" is wrong with them and that they know that they false self image they project is false. This is why BPDers sometimes have the feeling they are being "fake." This is not to say, however, they will ever acknowledge that they have strong BPD traits. My exW, for example, never did.


> From what I've read the ability to think is essentially hampered in a BPD case however the behavior seems almost calculated in some sense.


As I noted, the vast majority of BPDers are HF. As a group, those HF BPDers are just as smart as the rest of us. It is common for many of them to excel in demanding professions such as being nurses, social workers, psychologists, professors, and medical doctors.

As to their "ability to think" being "essentially hampered," that is true only with respect to their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations (i.e., actions that trigger their two fears). Aside from that, their ability to think is just fine. That is, their perception of physical reality and the sciences is not impaired. 

Moreover, the impairment they have in trying to accurately perceive other people is the VERY SAME impairment we all have every time we experience very intense feelings. Being human means that your judgment become colored whenever you are very angry, very happy, or infatuated. The difference with BPDers, of course, is that it happens more frequently and more intensely because they experience intense feelings more often.

As to your W's behavior sometimes being "very calculated," that too does NOT rule out strong BPD traits. Because BPDers have such a great fear of abandonment, they are notorious for being very controlling and trying to manipulate. Indeed, "Nons" have given that behavior a name too. They call it "gaslighting." It is named after the 1944 classic movie _Gaslight_, in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new wife (Ingrid Bergman) crazy. His objective is to get her institutionalized so he can run off with her family jewels. One of his many tricks is to turn the house gas lights down a tiny bit each day, all the while claiming to be able to see and read just fine. 

Many BPDers are very good at being manipulative and calculating. IME, however, most of them are not too good at it -- or, at least, are not consistently good -- because they are so reactive to whatever is going on at the moment. To be a really good manipulator, you need to have the patience to plot and scheme and then also follow through with a good execution of the plan. The very best manipulators, I believe, are the sociopaths and narcissists -- not the BPDers. I therefore think it is more accurate to describe most BPDers as being controlling and opportunistic.


> It would make sense if it was intentionally trying to "out crazy me" as she put it.


As I just noted, this behavior of obfuscating and clouding issues by producing one rationalization after another is one of the hallmarks of BPDers. It has such a confusing, disorienting effect on the spouse that Nons have given this behavior a name too. They call it "crazymaking." The result is that, of the several dozen mental disorders listed in the diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious -- by far -- for making the spouses and partners feel like they may be going crazy.


> i found out her dad did that stuff. I stopped immediately realizing the place it probably put her in. I only found out last night that it was worse than I'd originally thought. Framing things in that context leads me away from the BPD thing. Thoughts?


BPD is believed to be strongly associated with childhood abuse or abandonment. You now know that the father was far more abusive than you had imagined -- being physically abusive when she was a little child and sexually abusive when she was a teen. Why, then, would you conclude that this added abuse "leads me away from the BPD thing"? About 70% of BPDers report having been abused or abandoned during childhood.

Mat, as I said in my 10/19 post above, I still am unconvinced you are describing a persistent pattern of strong BPD symptoms because -- despite my asking twice -- you do not say when this dysfunctional behavior began. Nor do you say whether you've only seen it occurring in recent years or, instead, all through your marriage. In any event, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Wow, I'm posting this after just page 3 but I needed to get in here.

Matman. Your wife just may be a big time manipulator. She could have trauma in her history, but there's a point where you can't "save" her. There's a reason her friends wouldn't help you. She's poisoned them in regards to you. I wouldn't be surprised if she's told people you've raped her, and I'm not kidding.

Your only recourse is to protect yourself (Literally as in avoid jail and more) and your relationship with your kids.

1. Set up hidden cameras in the house.
2. Record her making threats about the police and your kids
3. Get as much of her erratic behavior documented as you can
4. Keep a journal of everytime she makes a threat etc.

Once you have some proof, THEN lay out to her it's time for therapy (both and individual) or divorce. Take the offensive. If divorce is going to be the route, then you have to establish her as an unfit mother. Take full control of the situation. 

I know you're going to feel that it's wrong to do all of those things and if you were dealing with someone sane, it would be. But you're not. You HAVE to protect yourself from a crazy person who has OBVIOUSLY ACTIVELY planned how to get you.


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