# Need some help coping with "bipolar" wife



## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

I made my first post a while ago in the "If you had known before....would you have gotten married" thread.

I've been mostly lurking the last few months on this board but could really use some guidance. Grab a beer, it's one of those long posts.

Basics:
Wife and I have been married for 19 years this year.
Things were perfect, and I do mean, perfect, no signs of psychiatric issues. She developed breast cancer five years into the marriage. Went through double mastectomy, chemo, radiation, tamoxifen, the works, she was a champ. Really inspiring. Awesome attitude. She had to stop graduate school to deal with the issue. Went back to school after missing two years.

She did well in school until her senior year (age 36) when she started with hyperreligiosity that led to her classmates and teachers becomin frustrated with her. She was becoming increasingly irritable at home; the hyperreligiosity was transmitted to me much later and by others. She barely graduated as her grades plummeted. More and more argumentative, but wanted a child. We tried for only a short time and she became pregnant.

We found out she was pregnant because that was when she had her psychotic break. She peseverated about abdominal pain and in the process became pretty psychotic, mostly delusions. She ended up hospitalized on a psychiatric floor. Of course, I thought the worst--limbic encephalitis, from returning breast cancer, can cause psychosis.....so in prep for MRI she had a pregnancy test, and boom! We found she was pregnant. The MRI revealed nothing, and repeat cancer workup also revealed no cancer. Thank goodness!

She was on the P-floor for a week as they stabilized her. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Because she was pregnant, she was started on haloperidol, which frankly did little. She went to an outpatient psychiatrist, who felt that schizophrenia was the wrong diagnosis, and felt she had bipolar with psychosis; this was based on manic behavior she'd had prior to her psychotic break. Thankfully, our little boy was born with no problems and he is now a healthy seven years old.

Various medications tried over the last seven years. The newer antipsychotics did squat. She is now on Trilafon, an old medication of hers.

Now comes the interesting part:
It turns out she'd been on Trilafon when we'd met. She saw a psychiatrist on a regular basis during the first years of our marriage. The story that she related to me was that she'd had head trauma in 6th grade after being trampled by other kids, and developed seizures. She was started on phenobarbital. During a summer program at the beginning of college, she'd stopped the phenobarbital and in the process of withdrawing from the medication, she'd been psychotic, sent home, hospitalized on a P-floor. Was on Trilafon afterward. Based on that logic, her P-doc finally decided to wean her off the medication, after all, why keep her on a medication that was for a side effect from withdrawing from another....15 years prior? It was about the time she was being withdrawn that she developed the new psychiatric symptoms.

Worse:
I didn't know about the prior hospitalization untli the psychotic break I witnessed. Now I'm wondering whether she was simply schizophrenic all along....and the disease does worsen with age.

So there's the background information. That brings me to now.

I am currently at my wits' end. Even on Trilafon, which thankfully stops the worst of the psychosis, she is quite obviously depressed. She is always irritable. She is always snapping at our son for no good reason. She spanks him sometimes when not appropriate, and I have intervened to stop this behavior. I can't have a normal adult conversation with her becausae even something reasonable like "hey, the floor is wet because you left the shower curtain out of the bathtub" becomes a major fight, with her yelling and me trying to be reasonable.

When I am home, I usually stay with my son, or take him out with me, so that he is not exposed to this behavior 24/7. Unfortunately, in my career, I frequently work 10-12 hours a day and sometimes more, so I cannot be home more. Luckily, I have at least some (not all) weekends off and I treat my son to a dose of normal parent behavior.

I have tried to be supportive, I have spoken to the psychiatrist, I have tried to engage her family (thankfully, they are supportive toward me as the same irritable behavior she shows toward my son and me she exposes to them too).

I have come to the realization that no medication is going to help her. We have tried many, and none has worked well; the Trilafon seems to be the best of them. Even a second psychiatric opinion led to the conclusion of "what else can be done?"

I am a patient person by nature, but I have to take care of myself and my son. As I type this, she is at church with my son, and I am cleaning house as she has decided that in the last few months that she can't do that. She doesn't want to help herself. She doesn't do anything to try to get a job, yet she won't apply for disability. She is quite comfortable asking for money above and beyond the reasonable allowance I give her. In that, I acknowledge enabling some of her behavior.

In short, I am thinking about leaving and taking my son, and making her move in with her parents, until she decides what will make her happy in life. The way it looks to me, it's not me that makes her happy.

I'm going to say the same platitudes as others....but I do mean them. First, I do love my wife and recognize that this illness is not her fault. I have full intention of standing by her. To her credit, she is compliant with medication and with P-doc visits and that is why I've stood by her so long. Second, I am really concerned about how the wife's behavior will affect my son. If left to her, he'd never, ever leave the house and of course that's not healthy, so I take him places and allow him to explore. On top of that, the little one is now old enough to understand that his mommy doesn't act like some of the other mommies he's seen helping out in class.However, I am concerned for my own emotional wellbeing.

I am just unsure what I can do to help her when I've done everything I can, even limit access to our money (long story, but she nearly spent us into bankruptcy during the manic phase before she was diagnosed. She has no direct access to our money since then). Should I stay and fight? Should I leave and forget about her? I am so tired of being Dad and Mom to my little one, and having a demanding job where people ask the world of me every day.

HELP!

Thanks for listening to my brain dump if you made it this far....there is more that I've left out but I hope you get the gist of my situation.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Frank. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. This must be nearly dibilitating for you.

My first concern would be for your son. Having a mental illness doesn't make good parenting impossible, or even more difficult. But your wife's current diagnosis doesn't leave much hope for a return to full functioning health. If your job is that demanding, your first priority is to ensure your son is safe and well cared for. Day care or after school programs, summer day camps and even sleep away camps. Frequent visits with family, grand parents and aunts and uncles are VITAL!

You don't go into too much detail about your wife's behavior on a daily basis, so the important question is, do you feel that your son is safe and well cared for with your wife? Perhpas it might not optimal parenting, but is he safe? Is he fed, is he well treated, is he treated in an age appropriate way? If you can say yes, then your next priority is your self.

You need to create your own support network and it sounds as if you already do have some support from her family. As you go through the motions of working and caring for your son, you now find that you are lonely, right? You are taking care of everyone but no one is taking care of you. Nows the time to give yourself permission to have a social life because you DO need that outlet to remain healthy.

Once you have those two major components working, son is well cared for and you have a group of male friends you can hang with fairly frequently, you will find that your inner strength has returned. You may feel, at that point, that this is something you can live with. You may find this is not something you can live with. At that point it's time to be honest with your wife's family, since they will be the ones who will have to support her through a decision to separate.

It might be helpful for you to start your own IC so you have someone who can listen and offer guidance, someone with no agenda but to help you make the best decisions for you.

I think you feel terribly conflicted about having a wife with a mental illness which prohibits you from enjoying a fully actualized adult relationship. Part of you feels very cheated, almost swindled. The other part feels like a heel and a cad for wanting to ditch your wife, you didn't sign up for this. Her dx is a major illness, but there are a LOT of people with Bi-polar who do learn to manage it well. Her sensitivity with meds does make it difficult, very difficult.

There are several members here on TAM who have Bi-polar and hopefully, they will chime in with ways they've learned to cope and perhaps some ideas for you so you can be supportive without enabling.

I often lament the sorry state of mental health awareness and care in this country. It's easier to have cancer then it is to have a life long mental illness! Cancer brings out support and compassion while mental health brings out judgment and critisim.

Keep posting here. I think you'll find that just getting it off your chest will be helpful!


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I have bipolar disorder, and it has been challenging for both me and my partner. Has she really tried EVERY medication? She needs a mood stabilizer such as lithium, depakote, tegratel to even out her moods. I take lithium, lamictal (a weak stabilizer used mostly for depresion) and risperdal for psychosis. Not everyone does well on the same meds. It took me 10 years to find this combo and it has worked well for me for years now.

I would get a new pdoc if he says her options are used up. Getting her a therapist would be a good idea as well. Believe me, I put my man through hell with my episodes, but I am thankful he educated himself about the disorder and stood by me. 

I would also suggest day camp or daycare for your son. Caring for kids is a trigger for people dealing with severe mental illness. Give her some time to work on herself, and hopefully she will heal her mind and be better able to be a partner and parent. Also, anxiety often accompanies a mood disorder, and she may need an anti-anxiety med (I take klonopin for that,)

I wish you luck with whatever you decide. Look into NAMI for education and support also.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...she's ill.
...depending on the frequency and nature of the inappropriate spanking, you may need to prioritize the welfare of your child. 

In that case, please gather documentation prior to moving out. Also consult with a lawyer regarding primary or joint custody. Not all lawyers are equal, or even competent. Something resembling 50%, in my experience, are incompetent clods. (well...at least for criminal defense law...it says something when you walk out of an office with your BPD wife, in the midst of a paranoid disassociation...and she just shakes her head and says 'Man's an idiot.')

Assuming that you're comfortable raising a child with this woman, it sounds like it is time to take care of yourself. NAMI groups, friends, time apart, lots of childcare, all will help. It may be wise to involve a child psychologist. Also, consider whether or not it makes sense to switch careers or locations. If you leave, I can't see 10-12 hours a day as compatible with raising a child. 

Also, dunno, but have you looked into hormone issues? My wife had a very significant episode (more homicidal) around the time she became pregnant.

--Argyle


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I am so sorry for your situation! I can only imagine....

It's great that she's compliant. She may not want to apply for disability but it would be beneficial in many ways. Not sure if you can talk her into it? 

The main thing is for you to obtain help on a regular basis. Something....get household help (maid or cook), send your child to camp/actitivies. Enlist the help of family members.

If you wife is unwilling to do these things (to be helpful to you) then you need to decide whether she is worth staying for.....it all depends on her capacity. Not sure of her severity but if she's unable to make decisions for herself...maybe a power of attorney?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

IC has been helpful to me by giving me a place to vent and get some empathy, forcing onto myself some continuity of making effort and change and gaining insight (as opposed to letting myself evade the situation for lengthy periods if time), and, most importantly, bringing professional wisdom and skill to bear on MY life (as opposed to my wife's).

YMMV, but I think you should give it a serious try, and it only counts if you are certain you've found a good therapist.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Frank,

Really sorry you are going through this. This is one of many stories that supports my belief that people with mental illness or on treatment should be required to disclose this prior to marriage so the other person can research and make an educated decision. Your post indicated she may have disclosed this to you prior to marriage.

I'm going to be bashed for this and I sympathize for those with mental illness, but its immoral to not disclose something that could affect the marriage so deeply and it's especially immoral to have children knowing this and not disclosing it. I have read some folks here with mental disorders who have made the conscious decision NOT to have children so as not to expose them to the illness or even passing on the genes. I applaud them for that and would do the same if I was in that situation.

As far as the op, without true effort from your wife to improve, things wont get better. You can send your child to camps and other mitigating methods to cope, but ultimately the stress and heartache will destroy you. Keep going to IC and make some long term decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## venuslove (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi- My husband is mentally ill. He told me that he was depressed during his first year of college. He told me this once and did not really go into detail. I guess, we say depressed as almost a casual thing and I didn't think " mental illness". He obviously had a bout of the depression when we moved far away, but I thought it was just transitioning to living half way around the world. Anyways, sometimes I kick myself for not seeing that he was ill before I got pregnant and married and sometimes, I know that he knew he had an illness and did not tell me. 
It infuriates me. I do feel cheated. His mother told me that he was emotionally unbalanced and incapable of having a relationship right before we moved away, but they were so mean to me, I thought that they just didn't like me and were trying to break us up. As my husband said they had told him the same thing about me!! Ha. 
Now, it is ten times worse. When I ask him where that guy went that I married, he says he is dead and that he is sorry he made me love him. Like indicating that he acted a certain way to get me to marry him.
Anyways, I am starting to not feel any type of obligation to him and only stay so that he will not influence our son half the time. He is very angry almost all the time and yells, lies and has regularly threatened to kill himself for the last two years. (He won't take meds or see a psych regularly) But he told me that one of the reasons he had depression in college was because of his difficult relationship with a girl that turned out to have schizophrenia. Now I am wondering if he was actually the one with it. I am of course the cause of all of his problems now. Ha.
HIs family told me to stop bothering them and yelled at me when I told them he was threatening to kill himself. The therapists tell me to divorce him and to call 911 if he threatens suicide anymore, but I tried to once and he called his mom and she told me it was really awful of me to threaten to do that right before he had a presentation and that I was in the wrong!!! And then told him how to get out of going to the psych ward if the police did show up!! 
So, this all leads me to believe that this is not the first time they are hearing of my husband wanting to kill himself. Isn;t there a way that I could see his medical records?
How do I get to keep my baby and get away from him? Please help. Thank you


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

venuslove said:


> Hi- My husband is mentally ill. He told me that he was depressed during his first year of college. He told me this once and did not really go into detail. I guess, we say depressed as almost a casual thing and I didn't think " mental illness". He obviously had a bout of the depression when we moved far away, but I thought it was just transitioning to living half way around the world. Anyways, sometimes I kick myself for not seeing that he was ill before I got pregnant and married and sometimes, I know that he knew he had an illness and did not tell me.
> It infuriates me. I do feel cheated. His mother told me that he was emotionally unbalanced and incapable of having a relationship right before we moved away, but they were so mean to me, I thought that they just didn't like me and were trying to break us up. As my husband said they had told him the same thing about me!! Ha.
> Now, it is ten times worse. When I ask him where that guy went that I married, he says he is dead and that he is sorry he made me love him. Like indicating that he acted a certain way to get me to marry him.
> Anyways, I am starting to not feel any type of obligation to him and only stay so that he will not influence our son half the time. He is very angry almost all the time and yells, lies and has regularly threatened to kill himself for the last two years. (He won't take meds or see a psych regularly) But he told me that one of the reasons he had depression in college was because of his difficult relationship with a girl that turned out to have schizophrenia. Now I am wondering if he was actually the one with it. I am of course the cause of all of his problems now. Ha.
> ...


My heart goes out to you, venuslove. Would be best if folks responded to this on venuslove's "Husband is mentally ill" thread in the General Relationship Discussion forum.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

@Sanity
Problem is...an awful lot of people with serious mental illnesses (anosognosia) don't know they are ill. I suspect that's one of the markers of being too crazy to marry.

I believe that any marriage should be preceded by a mutually disclosed diagnostic test for all common mental illnesses. (There are some where lying is hard.)

--Argyle


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have been away from the thread for a long while and I apologize. The reason is that it is emotionally draining for me to think about and type on the situation.

It's been an interesting summer so far. A couple of weeks after I made my original post, I called the P-doc for help with her. Medication was immediately increased, which helped some with sleep, but the irritability and irrationality continued.

We just celebrated anniversary #19 in the last couple weeks while all this was going on. Yay us.

We scheduled a family session with the P-doc, which occurred today. Her mom and dad were there along with me. We (mostly me) explained her behavior. The usually cordial relationship between the wife and P-doc broke down as she became increasingly agitated during the session. She simply had no insight into her problem and for the first time, the P-doc saw what we have been dealing with.

Ended up adding a second medication to the Trilafon. We'll see if it actually works. Given how touch she's been to treat so far, I am skeptical, but I am willing to try. I still want to leave, but want to give her a chance. What a dummy I am.

As far as my son goes, he spent the summer in summer day camps, piano lessons, and a reading class. He's good to go for the academic year in a couple of weeks. I'm taking the first week of school off so I can personally drive him to and from school, avoiding the drama that my wife occasionally brings when she does the task. I have made more time for him and he has responded to that by really clinging to me when I get home from work. We are inseparable during the time I'm home. He vents to me about mommy and some of her irrational behavior. He doesn't call it that, obviously, but can describe it well. Thankfully, his grandparents help us a great deal and help to mitigate her behavior.

To those who commented on my work hours: I am considering quitting my business and taking a 9-5 job with no weekends. I've had offers tendered to me for such (for as much or, in a few cases, for MORE money than I make now) and I'm really thinking about it. Whether I stay with this woman or not, this would be a good move for me (less stress) and for my son (more time with him).

Sanity, I totally agree--mental illness should be FULLY disclosed before marriage. In my case, the attempt to tell me was couched in a discussion about a side effect to a medication, so it was not clear to me that there was an early psychotic breakdown. If I leave, then have the insanity to enter another serious relationship, I will have an investigation done to find such information. I wish I'd thought to do that in the first place. I would have walked.

PieceofSky, I think it is time for IC for me. I have not yet started the search for a counselor. I am taking care of myself, though. I enjoy certain things and I spend time doing them when I'm off. I take my son with me as well.

Corpuswife, the wife can make decisions for herself most of the time. When she is loopy, though, her parents or I have to step in.

Anon pink, she can care adequately for our son despite the irritability. She doesn't appear to be a danger to him, and I keep close tabs on her for that. I would like to be physically there more frequently....reference above comment about changing my work situation. (Argyle references this as well).

scatty, thanks for your insight as well.

Venuslove, I truly feel for you. In my situation, at least her parents are supportive and my wife is compliant with medication (I personally supervise med administration so I know she takes it). If I were in your situation, I'd leave and take my child. Your situation causes me to look at mine from another perspective.

Man, another long post...


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...for your son, our children found frank discussions of mom's behavior somewhat useful. ('Mommy did that because she's mentally ill. It isn't normal. She's going to a doctor to try to get better. But it takes a while because she has to practice 1000 times.')

...regarding medication, the optimistic portion is that different medications, even those used for the same symptoms, can have drastically different effects. The pessimistic portion is pretty much the same. With the additional clause that the negative side effects are often much worse than the actual medication. It may help you to keep a diary.

...eg...Ambien helps my wife sleep. Clonazapam really helps my wife sleep and results in significant dysphoria and extreme irritability.

...the last portion is that we've found considerable variation in competence between psychiatrists.

...anyways...best wishes. 

--Argyle


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks.

Giving the new med combination a try.

You are right about variation in competence between psychiatrists. I've had her to two other P-docs and around here, pickings are slim for good psychiatrists who will actually talk to a patient at the same time meds are being prescribed.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

An update.

1. Son is well adjusted and doing well in school. My days off and after hours, we hang together. He's now 8 1/2 and starting to have more serious convos with me. It is so wonderful to watch a little one grow cognitively. The little guy is my best friend and my whole reason for living. 

2. My wife is the same. No improvement despite a couple of med changes. She had to decrease the Trilafon because it caused her teeth to grind and it was hurting her. Depakote was decreased because of weight gain. Her P-doc is at her wits' end and her suggestion is to try another newer antipsychotic, though none of the others was effective. Wondering whether ECT is an option for her. I doubt that dear spouse would go for it given her lack of insight that she is ill.....and when I say lack of insight, I mean an active denial that anything is wrong.

I am actively seeking a psychiatrist who specializes in treating difficult bipolar cases like my wife. Unfortunately, this may necessitate travel as most psychiatrists around here, even in our storied academic medical centers, are generalists. If someone can tell me of a good expert somewhere in the U.S., post up. I am trying not to give up, feeling I must protect and help my wife by any means necessary.

Otherwise, I still am at a point where we are stuck with her behaviors and I must protect my little one by any means necessary.

3. As for me, I've chosen to stick it out for now. On her bad days, I tell her she has to go to her mother's house. 

I have my hobbies (my cars and car meets). I have my wonderful son. I don't even cheat, not even online. Yeah, I've thought about it but I don't want to invest emotionally in another relationship now and most importantly don't need those complications in my life.

I re-read all the words of advice above. It is time for me to start IC specifically for caregiver burnout. I will start the arduous search for a compatible counselor after the new year. I guess I have a New Year's resolution!

I do feel cheated. I'm cheated in that I can only have a normal adult conversation at work.  I don't allow myself to feel cheated constantly, I think of how my wife's professional aspirations will now likely never happen because of her illness. It makes me so sad to think about what happened to her.

Are we to live another 40 years like this? My heart just fills with sadness thinking about that. 

I just want the woman I married and was with for 12 years back. I want the space alien (just a joke, OK?) who took over her mind to leave. Is that so selfish of me to ask?

Thanks for reading yet another tome.


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## Vanille (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm so sorry you're going through this! Things can't continue like this. Are the Drs certain she is bipolar? The things you've described sound like Psychosis, not bipolar. Or perhaps a combination of both. 

How does she deny it? Saying she isn't sick or not bipolar? How does she explain her medication and what the Drs tell her? The first step is accepting the illness and then researching it (her, not you. You clearly know your stuff).


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I'm so sorry you guys are going through this. I don't know if you pray so don't be offended if not, but I will keep you and your family in my prayers.


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## tobewise (Jan 7, 2015)

Hi Frank,

I am that wife. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder w/psychosis, anxiety, and borderline personality disorder 20 years after we got married. Unfortunately, neither one of us knew the full extent of my illness. Fortunately we do not have any children, but the illness has taken a huge toll on both of us.

Things didn't really turn around until I landed in the hospital's psychiatric ward in 2012....I drove myself there because I feared for my own safety and was very delusional. They put me on the right med combination, gave me the right diagnosis, and recommended that I look into DBT group therapy along with individual therapy as well as p-doc visits. I decided to do whatever it took to feel better for myself and our relationship.

When I started DBT group and therapy, it helped me to take responsibility for managing my own illness. If you haven't heard of DBT it's a system of learning how to use specific tools and strategies to handle every situation. It is the ONLY thing that has made a difference in all my 20+ years of regular therapy. Nothing else ever helped.

I just wanted to let you know that things did eventually get better between us. Not saying you should wait around for the next 40 years to see improvements with your wife because ultimately that is your decision. Just know that in our case things turned around and started moving in the right direction again.

There is so much more I could add, but the details are irrelevant. I'm just so thankful my husband loved me and had patience with me....without that things could have turned out much differently.

I hope this helps, God bless.

Hope


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Vanille said:


> How does she deny it? Saying she isn't sick or not bipolar? How does she explain her medication and what the Drs tell her? The first step is accepting the illness and then researching it (her, not you. You clearly know your stuff).


She says she is not sick, that she is a victim of "racism, sexism, and jealousy". Even so, she takes her medication. It helps she has a seizure disorder (long stable) and one of her meds covers that as well. She is still on Trilafon, which she had been on early in adulthood, so she accepts that medication as a matter of habit. Last, she understands that if she is not on medication, that I will leave, and she says she doesn't want that.



Pooh Bear said:


> I'm so sorry you guys are going through this. I don't know if you pray so don't be offended if not, but I will keep you and your family in my prayers.


I do pray, and I am thankful for your prayers.



tobewise said:


> Hi Frank,
> 
> I am that wife. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder w/psychosis, anxiety, and borderline personality disorder 20 years after we got married. Unfortunately, neither one of us knew the full extent of my illness. Fortunately we do not have any children, but the illness has taken a huge toll on both of us.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comment. I had to look up DBT. It seems interesting. I'll mention this to her P-doc at the next visit.

Just so I don't make it appear that every day is gloom and doom, we do have our good days. She is a very loyal wife. I know with bipolar disease involved people often seek others for sex and companionship, but my wife has been extremely loyal to her whole family and to me. It's just that "space alien" inside her that is eating her soul up, that is bothersome to us all.

Then there are the days when she 
--misplaces everything and it's all the fault of people sneaking into the house--she once changed all the locks on our house while I was at work because of this! 
--Or the begging for an extra $60 or $100, or $200 because she spent all her allowance on things other than her bills, and she needs to be bailed out. My answer most of the time nowadays is "no" as I don't want to enable her. 
--Forgetting that she's got food on the stove, and burning it. 
--Misinterpreting what my son and me tell her.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Sanity said:


> Frank,
> 
> Really sorry you are going through this. This is one of many stories that supports my belief that people with mental illness or on treatment should be required to disclose this prior to marriage so the other person can research and make an educated decision. Your post indicated she may have disclosed this to you prior to marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree completely that if you have a mental illness you talk it about extensively with someone you are dating. It means you can find someone who supports you and excludes people who say things like someone with a mental illness should not have children.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

venuslove said:


> Hi- My husband is mentally ill. He told me that he was depressed during his first year of college. He told me this once and did not really go into detail. I guess, we say depressed as almost a casual thing and I didn't think " mental illness". He obviously had a bout of the depression when we moved far away, but I thought it was just transitioning to living half way around the world. Anyways, sometimes I kick myself for not seeing that he was ill before I got pregnant and married and sometimes, I know that he knew he had an illness and did not tell me.
> It infuriates me. I do feel cheated. His mother told me that he was emotionally unbalanced and incapable of having a relationship right before we moved away, but they were so mean to me, I thought that they just didn't like me and were trying to break us up. As my husband said they had told him the same thing about me!! Ha.
> Now, it is ten times worse. When I ask him where that guy went that I married, he says he is dead and that he is sorry he made me love him. Like indicating that he acted a certain way to get me to marry him.
> Anyways, I am starting to not feel any type of obligation to him and only stay so that he will not influence our son half the time. He is very angry almost all the time and yells, lies and has regularly threatened to kill himself for the last two years. (He won't take meds or see a psych regularly) But he told me that one of the reasons he had depression in college was because of his difficult relationship with a girl that turned out to have schizophrenia. Now I am wondering if he was actually the one with it. I am of course the cause of all of his problems now. Ha.
> ...


I'm sorry you are going through this venuslove. Living with someone with mental illness is very difficult. You cannot really be angry with him since he did disclose that he had an illness and you chose not to investigate further. It sounds like he is not being very responsible for his treatment, however. Have you contacted a divorce lawyer? You have as much right to your child as he does. If he is untreated the court may not look favorably on that so you may not have a problem keeping your child. I would contact a divorce lawyer to proceed.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

*I just want the woman I married and was with for 12 years back. I want the space alien (just a joke, OK?) who took over her mind to leave. Is that so selfish of me to ask?
*

No. Completely understandable. Take good care of yourself. I'm so sorry you are all going through this difficult time.


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## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

I just want to share my perspective, it may not be the same situation as you, but...

My wife was diagnosed as a teen with bi polar, I recognize many of the drugs you have mentioned. After, much research by her and me and her new therapist, it was decided that she would ween herself off the meds that she had been taking for 15 years. A different person emerged, after a very rough time. She began to seeing this new therapist who spent several months evaluating her, guess what, she is not bi polar, but actually suffers from complex PTSD. Things are improving, things are still really tough, and there are many days I want to just walk out the door. But at least she is on her way to a normal life, and maybe that was my path. I am not suggesting that you take your wife off meds, I am suggesting that you might look into complex PTSD, I have read a lot that they are finding more and more cases of people who have been diagnosed with a personality disorder are actually suffering from trauma upon trauma.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JFK1965 said:


> My wife... began to see this new therapist who spent several months evaluating her, guess what, she is not bi polar, but actually suffers from complex PTSD.


JFK, as I explain in my post at your Infidelity thread, complex PTSD (C-PTSD) is not listed as a disorder in the American diagnostic manual (DSM-5) or in the European diagnostic manual (ICD-10). You therefore may be dealing with strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

JFK, I am lucky in that I haven't had to deal with infidelity or physical abuse. I happened to read your thread and if my wife were doing those things to me, I would be out.

In my case, even with my wife's poor insight into her condition, she is at least willing to take medication and it is that compliance that keeps me around--she's at least willing to try to be better.


Speaking of her....
We have an appointment with her P-doc coming up in the next few days. One of her issues is that she likes to control her P-doc visits. Whenever anyone presents anything different from what she thinks to be her condition, she becomes hystrionic, accusing me and her own mother of trying to hold her back. I have learned to get through the bluster and just say what's really going on, no matter what she thinks of or says to me afterward. 

This time round, for instance, she asked me a couple days ago what I was going to say to the P-doc. I told her "you've had more bad days lately". This turned into a half hour of "I do everything I'm supposed to and you're going to stab me in the back? I sis another example of sexism! I had people who were drunk in my class and they were able to pass their exams and go on in their career" and so on in a disjointed fashion, not addressing my point, going off tangent, and indeed proving my point. I said only what I started the conversation with. Yow.

There was a time when I let her go to the P-doc by herself, and this led to lowering of the medication doses because "I'm fine." Her mom and I (either or both) now go to her appointments to give the real scoop.

At this appointment, I'm going to insist on either a change in medication or some type of talk therapy, or if the P-doc is out of ideas, a referral to a sub specialist. Given some of her issues, she likely needs some sort of talk therapy to get her through her issues and like P-docs everywhere, this psychiatrist largely depends on mess.

Again, if anyone knows of a P-doc specializing in bipolar or its variants, I'm all ears.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

One of her big concerns is her large student loan debt, in the neighborhood of $250k. The fact is, in ten years, she has been unable to obtain employment because of her condition and the way things look, she will never be able to make more than a dent in her loan debt.

Today, I made the suggestion that maybe she should look into a disability waiver. Given her current cognitive condition, it would be a completely honest way of dealing with the problem. I said, exactly, "Perhaps you should have your psychiatrist sign a disability waiver for your student loans."

Ohhhhhhhh boy......this led to an immediate tirade. "I am not disabled! I intend to pay off my loans by finding a job!"
--OK, good on wanting to pay on the student loans.
--Problem: She graduated ten years ago and without further training, she cannot go forward in her chosen field. Until the last two months, she has been unwilling to work in any capacity that was not her chosen field. However, she hasn't been able to pass the exams required for licensing or further training.
--Her reasoning despite this: "I can't pay my loans because of sexism, racism, malpractice, and everyone is signing off on this to keep me down!". And she said that repeatedly as if repeating it would make it true.

I actually said nothing else during the discussion other than the sentence I mentioned above. When she was done with her tirade after about 15 minutes, all I said was "OK." I've learned that you can't reason with crazy, so why try?

To her credit, she is now actually applying for various jobs, which is a pleasant change. However, she still suffers some psychosis and I'm a bit anxious about how this will go. We'll see.

We'll see what the psychiatrist has to offer at the appointment tomorrow. Today is one of those days I'm fed up with her and want to tell her to pack her **** and move back with mother until she is healthy....but I'm not going to do that. I probably should......

What will happen is that the P-doc will get a full accounting of what is going on, no matter how pissy dear spouse gets. And if she can't take that, then maybe it really is time for her to go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

anonfrank said:


> At this appointment, I'm going to insist on either a change in medication or some type of talk therapy, or if the P-doc is out of ideas, a referral to a sub specialist. Given some of her issues, *she likely needs some sort of talk therapy to get her through her issues *and like P-docs everywhere, this psychiatrist largely depends on mess.
> 
> Again, if anyone knows of a P-doc specializing in bipolar or its variants, I'm all ears.


WHAT? You mean she is not in talk therapy and only seeing a P-doc for med checks? OMG how the hell does this happen?

Without talk therapy her meds won't bring about the kind of emotional stability she could achieve! 

Without talk therapy there is no one spending sufficient time with her to fully recognize her thinking patterns AND appropriately work with her to mitigate them!

Frankly, I think you should replace the P-doc with a new one. One who isn't so arrogant to think that meds alone will treat such a pervasive mental illness.

YES, get her into talk therapy with a PhD level clinician, pronto!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> WHAT? You mean she is not in talk therapy and only seeing a P-doc for med checks? OMG how the hell does this happen?
> 
> Without talk therapy her meds won't bring about the kind of emotional stability she could achieve!
> 
> ...


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. 

Anon, I feel so badly for what you're going through . I have no advice, but I strongly believe this woman needs to be in weekly talk sessions at a minimum. 

I have a friend whose father overcame a very deep depression about 10 years ago with electric shock therapy. I'm sure it has a different, more clinical name than that, but it was a last ditch resort for him and it worked amazingly well.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

She gets enough talk therapy from the psychiatrist to know that the meds are helping little. That's about it. The psychiatrist had an emergency and had to cancel the last appointment this week. I have a message in now, awaiting a reply.

My plan is to ask directly, without an appointment, for different medication for her, perhaps going to a newer one like Latuda, and to initiate talk therapy with a psychologist. I've also considered asking for electroshock therapy.

I've also been asking around for a psychologist for me to start IC. I work 80-100 hours a week, in a very demanding field, but I need to do this to help myself. It's really hard to find a psychologist who isn't booked months in advance.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

anonfrank said:


> One of her big concerns is her large student loan debt, in the neighborhood of $250k. The fact is, in ten years, she has been unable to obtain employment because of her condition and the way things look, she will never be able to make more than a dent in her loan debt.
> 
> Today, I made the suggestion that maybe she should look into a disability waiver. Given her current cognitive condition, it would be a completely honest way of dealing with the problem. I said, exactly, "Perhaps you should have your psychiatrist sign a disability waiver for your student loans."
> 
> ...


Can you talk to the doctor directly and get him to sign the disability paperwork? Even if she gets employed do you think it would last very long? My spouse went thru too many jobs to count and I heard much of the same, the supervisors hate her, its because she is a woman, they are jealous because she looked better than them, you name it.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

anonfrank said:


> An outpatient psychiatrist felt... she had bipolar with psychosis.... She is always snapping at our son for no good reason. She spanks him sometimes when not appropriate....


Frank, have you considered the possibility that you're seeing bipolar-1 combined with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)? I ask because a recent large-scale study found that 36% of bipolar-1 sufferers also have full-blown BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. If that is the case with your W, the BPD could explain two symptoms you are describing.

First, it could explain the always-present, underlying anger that can be triggered in seconds by any mild criticism (e.g., you left the wet shower curtain hanging outside the tub). Irrational anger is one of the defining traits for BPD.

Second, it also could explain the paranoia (one of the 9 hallmarks of BPD) that can cause BPD to sometimes be mistaken for schizophrenia. Indeed, even if she really does have schizophrenia, it appears to have substantial comorbidity with BPD if 2010 study results are representative of the general population. Although it examined only a small number of clients, it found that 19 of 33 schizophrenia patients also have co-occurring BPD. That study concludes:BPD and schizophrenia frequently coexist, and this comorbidity has implications for diagnostic classification and treatment. Levels of reported childhood trauma are especially high in those with a BPD diagnosis, whether they have schizophrenia or not. See Similarities of Schizophrenia and BPD.​That said, you mention a very strong _contraindication_ for BPD: the five perfect years you had at the beginning of your relationship. I've never heard of BPD lying dormant for five years. Because it is believed to be created (by trauma and/or genetics) in early childhood, it typically shows strong symptoms starting at puberty. It will lie hidden only during the infatuation period, which typically lasts 4 to 6 months. 

Yet, because BPD has such a strong association with both bipolar-1 and schizophrenia, I believe it may be worth your while to ask your psych about BPD. It is important to rule BPD out because, given that BPD is a thought disorder created in early childhood, medications won't make a dent in it.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Thank you so much for the information. I had considered BPD as well. However, as you state, it generally isn't dormant. In her case, we had a very, very long stretch (almost 12 years) of a normal relationship with no signs whatsoever of psychosis. I cannot rule it out completely, though. I am afraid of this possibility because there is NO effective medicinal treatment for personality disorders, and the best treatments are talk therapy.

She went through breast cancer, however, 15 years ago, and it was several years after the treatments, including two rounds of chemotherapy, that her psychosis flared up. I was initially worried that she had limbic encephalitis, which is an autoimmune syndrome caused by several cancers, including breast cancer. However, she's had absolutely no other evidence in the years since that the cancer has returned. Thank goodness.

I've had her see three psychiatrists in her time with this condition. The first one, when she was hospitalized ten years ago, diagnosed her with schizophrenia. The second one, her current P-doc she's been with for ten years now, diagnosed with with Bipolar with psychosis. The third one, whom she didn't like, concurred with the diagnosis of bipolar. I'll certainly be asking about BPD when the P-doc gets back to me, though!



honcho said:


> Can you talk to the doctor directly and get him to sign the disability paperwork? Even if she gets employed do you think it would last very long? My spouse went thru too many jobs to count and I heard much of the same, the supervisors hate her, its because she is a woman, they are jealous because she looked better than them, you name it.


I hadn't considered asking the P-doc directly. I thought there had to be some agreement with the patient in order to do this. I'll ask the P-doc. Thank you!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

anonfrank said:


> I had considered BPD as well. However, as you state, it generally isn't dormant. In her case, we had a very, very long stretch (almost 12 years) of a normal relationship with no signs whatsoever of psychosis.


Frank, the vast majority of BPDers rarely -- if ever -- experience psychosis. Most BPDers are high functioning people who may exhibit paranoia but not psychosis. I therefore mentioned BPD to you only because it might explain the paranoia -- and, more importantly, the anger -- you describe.

This almost certainly is NOT the case, however, if _"things were perfect, and I do mean, perfect"_ for many years, as you say in your first post above. Hence, I am calling your attention to BPD only because it might be playing an important role IF you saw BPD warning signs, during that _"perfect"_ period, that you have not told us about. 

At issue, then, is whether you saw signs -- starting about 6 months or a year into your relationship -- of her having anger issues, irrational jealousy, lack of impulse control, or difficulty controlling her emotions. If so, it would be worth discussing this with your psych. If you're interested, Frank, I describe the differences I've seen between the typical behaviors of bipolar-1 sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. I also provide a more detailed list of red flags for BPD at 18 BPD Warning Signs.



> I'll certainly be asking about BPD when the P-doc gets back to me, though!


That is worth a try, Frank. Yet, if you really did see her exhibiting strong BPD warning signs during that early "perfect" period, I would recommend you see YOUR OWN psychologist for a visit or two to obtain a candid professional opinion. 

As I discuss at Loath to Diagnose, there are many reasons why psychologists generally are very reluctant to tell a client (much less tell her H or her insurance company) she "has BPD" -- even when that is the obvious diagnosis. Moreover, that diagnosis usually is not obvious to a psych who is seeing her for only 50 minutes every week or two. Arriving at that diagnosis can be difficult because it may take the psychologist two years to see BPD traits that the spouse sees all week long.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Tomorrow is p-doc (rescheduled) day....

Heard from the school last week that dear spouse had been arriving significantly late with our child every day, and they were reaching out to me to see if I could help. Further, she was following the kid to his classroom when he's old enough to do it himself. I wasn't aware of this until the school contacted me. I think I'm going to have to take over the early morning school duty, cutting significant time at work to do so.

At home, she is so consumed with the possibility of abuse at the school that she is making him take down his pants so she can examine him....every day. There is no abuse and the only trauma is what she is doing to him.

I spoke with her mom over the weekend, asking whether she can come to the p-doc's appointment with us, and she is so intimidated by my wife that she doesn't want to go. I really need her backup so it's not just me presenting all this behavior to the p-doc.

Hopefully, the p-doc will have some ideas. I'm at wits' end. After hearing this news, I am ready to end or significantly change my business.

Any ideas on how I can help my mother-in-law express her concerns to the p-doc? Anyone else have to change jobs or alter their hours to deal with a spouse in my wife's shape? Looking for ideas or other suggestions. 

I'm at a low point today, again wondering if I should just kick her out, take custody of son, and be done with it. Hopefully, I'll be more sunny (my usual disposition  ) later today.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Frank, please let us know what the P-doc says -- if anything -- about the chance of her having both BPD and bipolar-1. Best of luck tomorrow!


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

anonfrank said:


> She gets enough talk therapy from the psychiatrist to know that the meds are helping little. That's about it. The psychiatrist had an emergency and had to cancel the last appointment this week. I have a message in now, awaiting a reply.
> 
> My plan is to ask directly, without an appointment, for different medication for her, perhaps going to a newer one like Latuda, and to initiate talk therapy with a psychologist. I've also considered asking for electroshock therapy.
> 
> I've also been asking around for a psychologist for me to start IC. I work 80-100 hours a week, in a very demanding field, but I need to do this to help myself. It's really hard to find a psychologist who isn't booked months in advance.


Is talk therapy the best treatment for bipolar? I know for my illness it is not helpful at all. I don't know a lot about bipolar though.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

The visit did not go well. The psychiatrist immediately recognized there was a problem and immediately offered a medication change. To the p-doc's credit, there was a lot of talk therapy today. However, upon hearing about the medication change (increasing what she's on would lead to tooth grinding, which harmed her teeth in the past), dear spouse immediately stated she would not be taking anything except what she was currently on. This led to a near shouting match between her and the p-doc (the p-doc did not raise their voice whatsoever and stood their ground), and at me for telling the p-doc what happened.

As she remained obstinate, I said something I should not have. I told her that if she wasn't going to take the medication or try to improve herself, that she would have to move out. I was sorry as soon as I said it, and it probably wasn't helpful, but that was truly how I felt at the time, and it represents ten years of frustration.

I will try to get her to take the new medication, and have called her mother to enlist her help in taking the new medication. I will do the best I can to help and support.

I hope I don't really have to move on, but I also hope she is not going to give up after all the support her whole family has tried to provide her. I see her approach as "quitting". Yes, I do realize that lack of insight is part of the illness, and it was on full display today.

I have a specific question for those following this. How can you get someone who is not willing to take medication to take it? The ultimatum was probably not a good idea but came out of my frustration. What have others of you done?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Frank, in order for anyone to be med compliant they have to buy into their own treatment plan. In order for them to buy into it, they have to recognize the truth of the choices before them

Take the meds, become balanced and healthier and live a happier more connected life.

Don't take the meds. ...... ...... Then what? A mentally unbalanced person will see nothing beyond not taking the meds because they do not own their mental illness. 

This is where Rock bottom comes in. 

How do you get someone to hit rock bottom? Sometimes you have to pick it up and slap them over the head with it. 

Your ultimatum was only as good as your intention to follow through. If you intend to follow through, you should say it loud and clear, "don't follow your treatment plan and I will not continue to support you." Making empty threats, OTOH, will give your wife the ammunition she collects to convince herself everyone else is wrong and she is right.

I think you did the right thing, so long as you're willing to follow through.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks. I am just frustrated.

I am hoping I haven't just flushed 20 years away because her mental illness doesn't allow for recognition there is a problem.

The p-doc contacted me later and asked what I thought about the possibility of involuntary hospitalization. I'm thinking about it. I hate trying to force her to do anything, but at this point I'm willing to do almost anything to make her better. If making an ultimatum will help, I am all for it.

Forgot to say, definitely not borderline disorder according to the p-doc. That's a small load off me.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How long can they keep her for involuntary? Does the doc think she can be stabilized enough during this involuntary stay? Or intensively confront her enough to break through he wall of denial?

What have you got to lose if you agree and she doesn't come around? If she continues in denial and continues to fall apart, what will you do?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't mean to heap misery on your pile... But I really think you're focusing on helping the wrong person. Your son is basically being physically and emotionally abused by your wife. Whole I get that you're doing what you can to protect him, you're working 80 to 100 hours a week, so she's alone with him the bulk of his waking non-school hours. 

He deserves your protection. He's not getting it. 

C


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

I have changed my schedule so that I can do some of my paperwork at home after hours rather than in the office. Generally, I am able to stop some of her more egregious behavior toward my son. I have started to delay my departure in the mornings so that I can see them off to school. He has a long school day, 8 am-3:30, so he's safe during those times. Dear spouse's mother is going to be with her and my son in the afternoons during the week and on the weekends I have to work--just worked that out today. Son is well adjusted for having a mom in her current shape.

I managed to get the first dose of the new medication into her tonight after some cajoling by both myself and her mother. Her mom let her know what is at stake (ie her family and lifestyle). One step at a time, tomorrow is a different day.

If she starts actively refusing, I will have her admitted to the hospital.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

anonfrank said:


> The visit did not go well. The psychiatrist immediately recognized there was a problem and immediately offered a medication change. To the p-doc's credit, there was a lot of talk therapy today. However, upon hearing about the medication change (increasing what she's on would lead to tooth grinding, which harmed her teeth in the past), dear spouse immediately stated she would not be taking anything except what she was currently on. This led to a near shouting match between her and the p-doc (the p-doc did not raise their voice whatsoever and stood their ground), and at me for telling the p-doc what happened.
> 
> As she remained obstinate, I said something I should not have. I told her that if she wasn't going to take the medication or try to improve herself, that she would have to move out. I was sorry as soon as I said it, and it probably wasn't helpful, but that was truly how I felt at the time, and it represents ten years of frustration.
> 
> ...


Getting them to change or stay on a medication schedule is often extremely difficult. They all too often decide they are be "controlled". Her approach is quitting as you see it but to her its not because how she feels and acts currently is "her normal". 

Again its not unusual at all for the ill person to have convinced themselves its everybody else and not themselves and it compounds the problems of medication changes, more intense therapy. Your ultimate whether a good idea or not at the time has to be on the table. You cant realistically live like this long term and your son cant be exposed to this contstantly.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I know I get paranoid when I am manic. I think everyone is against me and trying to control me. 

Has pdoc offered her any atypical anti psychotics such as abilify, seroquel? These are newer and often better tolerated. I just got put on abilify and it has helped SOOO much, but I also accept I am ill and trust my hubby when he says I am acting irrational. I also go to support groups and online forums so I can relate to others and I often take their advice more seriously, since they have been there themselves. 

This illness is so hard on my spouse. He doesn't know what to do or say and ends up getting really frustrated. It is a nasty, unforgiving disorder on the whole family, really. Paranoia can be treated, but one has to be open to it. Newer drugs are the way to go, in my experience anyway. Tell your wife you don't understand what she is going through, but that you will be there for here if she continues treatment, hospitalization, whatever. Try to refrain from saying things like "Don't act crazy" (not that you do.)


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Well, we got her to take the medication. She was scheduled for twice daily and while it worked, it made her so drowsy that she refused to take it during the day. The psychiatrist recommended taking both doses in the evening and wow are we seeing resistance to that. I'd like to take a week off but can't find enough coverage to do so.

Every time I speak to her psychiatrist, I am honest and tell her. Every time, I get chewed out. I have stopped listening to her about the issue, which makes her madder. I told her today that I was trying to help her and of course, she's in bat**** crazy mode so it flew over her head.

Just updating to say every day is a fight but we are trying. At least she is taking meds. We'll see if it works. If not, I plan to take a leave of absence from work to deal with the situation. Just have to line up work I can do on the short term from home so we are not without income.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Scatty, thanks for your comments as it's hard to get into my wife's head right now. My wife is highly paranoid right now and thinks I am against her. I'm hoping I don't have to put her in the hospital to resolve this, but if I can't get her to take the regimen, that's where she is headed. Your insight is helpful.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Once they seem to convince themselves your against them the uphill battle becomes that much harder. The paranoia feeds the "everybody" else is the problem. My stbx has entrenched herself so deep into her world that the moment anyone trys to get her to see a different perspective she just eliminates them from her life or simply refuses to listen and works that much harder to convince themselves they are right. 

Sure you have had the feelings that no matter what you try or what angle you use its a no win scenario in the struggle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)

anonfrank said:


> I made my first post a while ago in the "If you had known before....would you have gotten married" thread.
> 
> I've been mostly lurking the last few months on this board but could really use some guidance. Grab a beer, it's one of those long posts.
> 
> ...


She is schizoaffective. The only drugs that are indicated for it are Invega Sustennna, a one month injectable and Invega tabs.

It never ceases to amaze me how behind the times psychiatrists are with diagnoses and treatment meds. I work in a hospital. PM me if you have any questions.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

[Venting]
What a nightmare.
[/Venting]

She is convinced that I am against her. Even making sure that she does her most important job of the day, getting our little guy to school on time, especially since she doesn't want him on private transport (our only other option with this particular school), is a strenuous effort that leads to her venting against both our son and me. Giving the new med a little more time, though; it takes a good 2-4 weeks to assess the effect.

Cobalt, I appreciate the words, but I also work in health care. Schizoaffective disorder is a term that is so abused in psychiatry where I am that I don't even believe it when I read it now. When I see a psychiatrist use it, I immediately question them. It's too bad, because there is a clear definition for it in the DSM-V that is routinely ignored. That is certainly something I can ask the P-doc about.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

anonfrank said:


> An update.
> 
> 
> I am actively seeking a psychiatrist who specializes in treating difficult bipolar cases like my wife. Unfortunately, this may necessitate travel as most psychiatrists around here, even in our storied academic medical centers, are generalists. If someone can tell me of a good expert somewhere in the U.S., post up. I am trying not to give up, feeling I must protect and help my wife by any means necessary.
> ...


Anonfrank - I had sent you a PM with a p-doc recommendation. Did you see it?


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

I did. Sent you a PM.

New med not helping, and making her feel like a zombie at night. She's at least being cooperative and taking it. We tried the recommended daytime dose and it simply made her tired.

Back to the drawing board. Sigh.

Further, trying to find HER a psychologist for talk therapy. Her psychiatrist is being helpful with leads.

Thankful for this board. At least I can post periodically to vent. Maybe someday I'll come back to this thread as a reminder of a difficult time. Someday....


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Update:

Saw the psychiatrist a few days ago. Wife is doing slightly better but still irritable and concerned about lost things around the house being stolen by people breaking in. Because of slight progress, psychiatrist recommended increasing the dose.

Of course, wife remembers the request to increase as "optional" and if wife thought it was necessary. I saved my energy to force the issue yesterday, in the presence of her mother, there for support. It was a HUGE fight. As she was increasingly obstinate, and her resistance continued to both me and her mother, I finally had to threaten to call 911 and having her placed on a psychiatry floor for help. At that point, she finally relented.

I almost walked out last night to stay at a hotel and begin a single life. I am, honestly, burned out as a caregiver.

My mother-in-law, however, put things in perspective. She is a Pollyanna in thinking that things will be eventually all right......I certainly don't agree given this has been going on for over ten years at this point. However, she lost her husband about six months ago. She told me that even if her husband was in the shape my wife is in, she'd rather have him alive. I didn't know what to say to that. I kinda feel bad for her, her other child is in crisis, too, as a substance abuser living a thousand miles away. She must be as stressed as I am.

A colleague of mine has (had) a wife with mental illness who was going through the same thing as my wife, for many years. She died a couple of weeks ago, likely a suicide. That has also hit me hard. My wife isn't suicidal but anything can happen with bipolar. Watching for that, too, now, that situation has me on edge.

Thanks again for letting me vent. Feeling at rock bottom right now.

I do have a question. Have any of you done the NAMI family to family support groups? I found one locally that of like to attend.


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## kindnessrules (Sep 5, 2014)

I attended a NAMI group a few times. I didn't find it very helpful. For some reason which I can't really recall since it's been several years, I didn't feel as free to share as other members with much more severe situations, plus it seems like as a "family member" instead of a "patient" (I think there were both patients and family in attendance) less time was allocated for me. But sounds like your situation is very severe and you would be welcomed more than I was. You might want to go and give it a try. Sounds like you desperately need an outlet and some support.

You are a saint. No one not in the situation can understand what it's like to live with the unpredictability of mental illness, what you're going to find when you wake up in the morning, etc. Concerned and well meaning friends ask how my spouse is doing when what I long for is for someone to ask how I am doing. With me, we're not actually sure it's BP or something else - lately I've been thinking perhaps ADD - he discontinued his BP meds and actually does not seem that different but he does exhibit signs of racing thoughts, distractability, hyperactivity, etc. But he shows zero interest in seeing a professional and denies he has racing thoughts. I deal with confusion, hopelessness, depression, anger; sometimes I see a therapist, sometimes we see one together.

Good luck with your situation. With physical illness at least you can name it and treat it and know what to expect but with mental illness it's not so clear. It is terrible to live in confusion and unpredictability.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Anonfrank - Maybe you should also look into Recovery International, an organization which traces its roots to the writings of Dr. Abraham Low. I knew of one person who went to meetings there a long time ago, and he was very positive about his experience. Good luck, my friend. Keep the faith.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

AnonFrank,

I'm praying for you brother. I think you need more than a support group. It's time you stop surviving and started thriving. You know what you have to do. You can't pump water out of a sunken ship expecting it to float again.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Anonfrank - On another front, has your wife's p-doc sent her in for any periodic blood testing to ascertain that her meds are not causing any potential problems? If not, she should go. But more importantly, you should make sure that she gets tested for Vitamin B-6 and B-12 levels and for Thyroid hormone levels. There has been research that has indicated that low levels of B-6 and B-12 have been associated with psychological conditions such as paranoia, depression and mania (to name a few), and abnormally low levels of thyroid hormone are linked with psychosis. 

While I don't want to give you false hope of a "magic bullet," I think the treatment of any abnormal levels may at least improve the efficacy of her meds. Good luck my friend.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

^^^^^
Yes, the psychiatrist monitors blood tests on a regular basis. I also have her taking a Centrum (multivitamin) daily because I do, too.

Posting an update. The new dose of the med caused tooth grinding and cognitive problems so we dropped back to the old dose.

On that dose, she has good days and bad days. On the good days, I am glad to be with her. On the bad days, I am with her but go into caregiver mode. The good and bad days are about evenly divided. I wish we had more good days, but I'll take what I get.

Her biggest complaints are that I step in while she is punishing our son (she feels I am interfering with her authority when I think she's blowing a tiny item out of proportion) and her massive student loan debt, which makes her understandably stressed.

In short, we are doing OK. Not great, but could be worse.

Still feel duped, but it's not her fault she is sick.

Still trying to find a counselor for me. These guys are backed up everywhere around here! Could definitely use one.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Frank - An Endocrinologist I spoke to recommended that anyone with a B-12 deficiency should get B-12 shots until the B-12 levels are normalized. Then, he places them on sub-lingual (?) vitamins. You did not say if your wife's B-12 levels were low, but if they were, that would be the course of treatment she might need (if only this was the answer!).

On another matter, did you look into Recovery International?

Wishing you peace and strength, my friend.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

My favourite piece of advice in this thread so far, is to enroll your son in daycare or after school activities. So that he is around your wife less often, and also for your wife to have time and space for herself. As someone here mentioned, caring for children can make this illness worse.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Archangel2 said:


> On another matter, did you look into Recovery International?
> 
> Wishing you peace and strength, my friend.



I did. There are no groups in my area. I also discussed with the wife during one of her (now more frequent) lucid periods. She indicated she was happy talking with her psychiatrist.



Orange_Pekoe said:


> My favourite piece of advice in this thread so far, is to enroll your son in daycare or after school activities. So that he is around your wife less often, and also for your wife to have time and space for herself. As someone here mentioned, caring for children can make this illness worse.



Already done. This summer, he will be in summer camp for fun, and tutoring to be prepared for fourth grade.

Since she is a bit more lucid, she is trying to take the opportunity to exercise (all those mess caused a 70 pound weight gain). I also have another thread going about her considerable student loan debt. I am trying to help her find a part time job.

She still has days when she is just plain crazy. At least I have occasional lucidity to look forward to now.


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

It's really sad when your spouse's mom tells you that she can't stand being around her own daughter and asks you how you deal with it.

My MIL actually told me this the other day and thanked me for taking care of her. (Ie thanks for not making her live under her mom's roof so she would have to deal with the crazy b!tch who stole my wife!) So sad.....the worst part is that there's nothing any of us, even a psychiatrist, can do for her.

There are days I wish that we could just institutionalize her for prolonged treatment, as was possible in the 50's and 60's, but now all the institutions are closed.

Still too many days when she is batsh!t crazy even with current meds. She has 2-3 lucid days a week, though, so at least the meds allow that. IC helps me to deal...


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Anonfrank - I am so very sorry that things have not improved for you. May I suggest another strategy? Would you consider ECT as a last resort? You might want to go to the Mayo Clinic website to read up on its ECT practice. I recently looked at it and was favorably impressed. If the Mayo Clinic can talk favorably about this treatment regimen, perhaps it can be an option for you to consider.

Good luck, my friend.


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

anonfrank said:


> It's really sad when your spouse's mom tells you that she can't stand being around her own daughter and asks you how you deal with it.
> 
> My MIL actually told me this the other day and thanked me for taking care of her. (Ie thanks for not making her live under her mom's roof so she would have to deal with the crazy b!tch who stole my wife!) So sad.....the worst part is that there's nothing any of us, even a psychiatrist, can do for her.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear things have only mildly improved for your situation. Reading it with a fair amount of empathy. Couldn't help but consider the length of the scenario and the most likely toll it will have on the young-ins....Maybe you would be in a better position to help her but transitioning into a friend role, instead of a husband....if she is semi-functional can she live in an apartment on her own? The kids and you can live wherever and strive for normalcy, of course on her best days that's the time to capitalize on visitation for them with her. 

Get her to file for disability to help with the costs and allow yourself to live again - it is maybe more important now that your kids see a normal relationship as well before they get into some of their own having seen only dysfunctional.

I am not dealing with anything on this level but when the doctors started playing with my wife's meds she got extremely [email protected]$hit crazy and it scared me for my daughter who has now started repeating things mommy has said about how she feels because I think she craves the attention.....you're not a failure as a husband or man to think of yourself and your kids and you aren't abandoning her you are simply looking for the most optimal scenario to take care of everyone including yourself....my two cents...


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I have bipolar disorder and am stable on meds and also i do not work. With bipolar disorder there is a 90% divorce rate. If my illness ever got to the point where i didn't respond to meds i wouldn't expect my husband to stay with me. I couldn't do that to him. I think you should leave.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Anonfrank - How are you doing?


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## pickil65 (Oct 15, 2015)

I am just now seeing as I am new to the forum but I see that you are still actively posting, it takes a lot of courage to go thru your situation, and I am glad that you are standing by her side. Two things, there are still mental facilities that can help her, what happens when the doctor tries to tell her that she is bi-polar? Have you taken her to another doc to confirm cause I almost wanna believe the hospitals original diagnosis this seems like it is more than bi-polar. Also the student loans, you can submit a request yourself without her involvement, my hubby and I are low income and every year I go on there and do it for both of us, you just need to know her information to do it. You can try to get her a zero repayment plan because she is out of work and after 30 years it will be excused if you can't get her to sign off on the disability but if you do it online you shouldn't need her signature. 

Sounds like she needs an intervention, you need to get the whole family together minus your son (get a babysitter for him) and sit her down and MAKE her open her eyes, she is never going to get better if she doesn't admit that she has a problem. You can put her on all the medicine in the world and if she doesn't know she has a problem it will not help her, for her sake I would steer clear of lithium that sh!t has so many side effects that last long after you stop taking it. If you can get her to apply for disability she can get all kinds of help. Good Luck..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown

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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

^^^^^
I asked about borderline at my many opinions. So far, all the Pdocs including mood disorder expert I've had wife to see lately are saying "no". Doesn't matter, meds don't seem to be making a diff still.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If it were me I would move on.

Your son is witnessing this dysfunction, no? Not just hers, but the one you share, right?

So sad, brother. You all have my sympathies and my prayers.



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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> @*Uptown*


@*farsidejunky*, thanks for the alert. Actually, *Frank* and I discussed the possibility of BPD over a year ago, starting with post #30 above. We both considered it extremely unlikely because his W had been symptom free for many years. Her paranoia and other behavioral symptoms apparently started only after she had undergone chemotherapy for cancer.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Uptown said:


> @*farsidejunky*, thanks for the alert. Actually, *Frank* and I discussed the possibility of BPD over a year ago, starting with post #30 above. We both considered it extremely unlikely because his W had been symptom free for many years. Her paranoia and other behavioral symptoms apparently started only after she had undergone chemotherapy for cancer.


I did a quick scan for posts from you and I must have missed it.

...turning the Batman spotlight off now and returning to regular activities...lol

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## Thessavout (Oct 30, 2015)

Sorry for you. Take her to some counselling sessions.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

anonfrank said:


> ^^^^^
> I asked about borderline at my many opinions. So far, all the Pdocs including mood disorder expert I've had wife to see lately are saying "no". Doesn't matter, meds don't seem to be making a diff still.


 @anonfrank - What has the mood disorder doc recommended?

Was the lithium any better than what she was taking before?


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Bump


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## homedepot (May 13, 2014)

I will be real my man. You have to kill all hope and deal with what you have. There is nothing that you will be able to do to change her. I have been in your shoes for quite some time with 2 kids and it doesn't and will not get easier. I had to drill that in my head so I can stop with the hope she comes back crap and deal with what's left of her now. Still not pleasant but I am done hoping.

You will only find peace outside of the house. Just talking to another woman will give you an idea of how bad things are. I too take care of the kids and trust me when I tell you that you child knows something is off with mommy. 

If you don't find happiness from time to time, you will end up just like her. Never stop showing your child love. I get criticized for spoiling my kids. Im like if I don't do, it wont get done and they will grow up just like mommy.

I am not apologizing if I offend anyone. You guys should be the one apologizing to the carers........


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

A positive update.

We have continued to fight the bipolar and I think we may have finally turned the corner. She was forcibly hospitalized twice last year. I was assigned by the court as her legal guardian, so if hospitalization is required in the future, I can request it with no complications. Note: I did not want to be guardian, I asked her mother, she wanted no part of it and gave me her blessing.

In any case, she was started on Abilify Maintena injections. The injections are monthly. For about three weeks a month, she was emotionally stable and for a week-10 days, she was irritable, easy to anger, and just generally crazy. The p-doc then added oral Abilify and that did the trick! The injections made her at least willing to take pills (a great difficulty in the past). On this combination and some lithium, the angry spells are far less often, and she is less paranoid. I am able to have normal adult conversations with her for the first time in years. During the week before her injection, she still gets a little ornery, but mostly to predictable triggers and we do the best possible to avoid them.

I am feeling hopeful for the first time during this ordeal.

She’s not perfect. She believes she should go to law school, has taken the LSAT twice (without studying, and of course fails) and has applied to a bunch of law schools (rejected from all). The new medications, however have reduced her upset about law school. We’ll keep tweaking her treatment. Maybe she’ll finally be able to get a job, which will improve her self-esteem somewhat.

This situation caused me to address my own personal shortcomings. I was spending too much time at work as I owned my own business. I sold the business at the beginning of this year and took a job that was mostly 9-5. I’m happier personally and my wife is happier in that I’m able to spend more time with her. We are happier together right now. My son is also over the moon that I’m around more.

I don’t know how long this good phase will last, but for now, we are both OK. I’m just glad we found a combination of meds to help her.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ever recorded her destructive behavior to play back to her? 

I had to do this with my wife a few times before she was willing to see that she needed help. My wife also has bipolar type 1. And according to her neurologist, might also have MS...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* @anonfrank ~ as always, you, your wife and son, your doctors, and your families are, and will continuously be in my prayers!*


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Frank, thanks so much for returning to give us another update! I am happy to hear that your W is doing much better with the new medication and that you're finally able to start feeling hopeful. I wish the best for both of you!


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks guys. It’s been a long road but she is finally coming back to me.

I’ve tried playing back her ranting to her, but part of bipolar with psychosis is anosognosia, the inability to recognize your issue. Didn’t work, and even if acknowledged, there was always some explanation. Now that she is more stable mentally, it may be worth another try if she starts getting out of hand again.

An approach I used to keep myself sane was to simply take care of myself and my son....exercising, eating right, hobbies. In addition, there’s an email support group for SOs and spouses of BP people that’s kept me afloat.


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