# Moving on, doing the 180 after wife's EA.



## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Quick back story: My marriage ended on Tuesday. My wife was having an EA that she continually lied about and despite claims it was over, continued to push it underground. Finally after several lies I put up an ultimatum, stop talking to him and come to MC or we're through. She took the latter. We have been together around seven years and have two boys.

Link to original thread.

I still love her, but I've fully accepted there is nothing more I can do to try and save the marriage at this point.

So now I'm working on becoming a better, stronger person. I still have moments of weakness, but they're quickly growing further apart and I genuinely am feel better about myself every day. I'm more motivated than I've been in a long time. Now I need the focus to continue to improve ME and not to pine for her. I went to the MC (alone) last night as I said I would and I will be going back again next week. Unfortunately it may not continue for long as my insurance doesn't cover it and it's not exactly cheap.

In our current financial situation there is no realistic way for either of us to leave the house we're renting to the other person. I'm cleaning out the third bedroom, getting our extra bed out of storage, and moving into there for the time being. We've set guidelines for space/privacy in the home, among other things (time with the kids, money, etc). I know it won't be easy being under the same roof for the time being, but it has to be done. It is most definitely a temporary situation and as soon as we are able to do it one or both of us will be moving out. We've both been very reasonable thus far and I expect that to continue.

I'm now working on the 180, most parts I feel like I'm off to a great start with, but there are a couple that I'm struggling with:

*#10: Do not spy on your spouse.* Over the last two weeks I have done a lot of spying on her (most of it coming BEFORE the split while exposing the EA). Checking e-mails, IM conversations, phone records, etc. Now I'm having trouble not completely breaking away from spying on her. I know this won't help my recovery, but I still can't seem to stop myself from doing it.

*#15: When home with her, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce on words.* This one I'm conflicted about and maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong. I'm more confident in myself and I'm showing it, she's even mentioned more than once over the last few days that she sees it and has been surprised by it. But when she's talking about her work day, etc. I'm showing genuine interest. Am I really supposed to just shut her out when she's talking about her day? Or is it more that I just shouldn't be asking, only talking about it when SHE brings it up? I'm not showing any emotions in our conversations, just letter her know I am listening and responding accordingly.

There is one thing I will say, and if you think I'm wrong feel free to speak up, but I don't know if it's something I'm willing to change: We are not angry with each other. We are being very civil and I want that to continue. More than anything I'm doing it for our boys, I don't want them to see or feel any anger/resentment between mom and dad. Many people seemed to be suggesting in my previous thread that I be an ******* because of her actions, but I don't see that being a productive way to move on and become a better, stronger person. If we're not going to be together I still would like to try to be on good terms with her, for the kid's sake if nothing else.

I welcome any advice you might have, even if it wasn't something I mentioned here.

Wish me luck!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Good luck Bucks,

Its unfortunate what she gave up for a temporary thrill, but she'll see the cold hard reality once the D is over. 

For #15, you should be emotionless while talking to her. If you start showing any weak moments, she could try to get you into a false R.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Talk to her as if she were a piece of furniture, or a plant. No emotional investment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Bucks,

I do wish you luck. You seem like a great guy and a wonderful father. I followed your original thead and was sad to see your wife throw away all the chances you gave her to fix things.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> Bucks,
> 
> I do wish you luck. You seem like a great guy and a wonderful father. I followed your original thead and was sad to see your wife throw away all the chances you gave her to fix things.


Gee thanks, I only cried once today, this made it twice. 

My responses are pretty emotionless at this point. She saw ZERO weakness from me today. No calls to her work, no questions about her well being, no volunteering information suggesting I had a rough day (not that I had a rough day, I just usually feel a little more emotional around the time she's coming home and today was different).

She talked about her work week and how tired she was (she's put in around 62-63 hours in the last 5 days) and my responses were things like, "yeah, I'm sure you are". Her baker quit yesterday, but she can't find anyone to go in and now has to get up at 4am to go back in on her day off... she was tearing up talking about how tired she was and how she just wanted rest and I gave her a monotone, "sorry to hear that, you definitely need the rest."

For the past week and a half, if I'm home when she's gone to bed, she's given me an emotionless "I'm going to bed now, goodnight". Tonight was different... she got up and kinda paused, said, "I'm beat, I need to go to bed now", I said, "Okay", then she quietly said, "I guess I'm gonna go to the bathroom first". After a few minutes she came out of the bathroom and stood a couple feet from me for three or four seconds, then said, "sorry, it's still awkward" (implying the lack of hug/goodnight kiss), went and picked up her phone, said, "I'll sleep on the couch tonight if you want the bed" (to be fair here, we did say we'd rotate until the bed was out of storage, but this was the first mention of it tonight). I told her no, that I would have taken the bed, but she needed the sleep since she had to work in the morning. She calmly said, "goodnight", I replied, "goodnight, get some sleep", and she went to bed.

I've definitely noticed a change in her attitude over the last few days. She's not nearly as blunt/cold as she'd been over the last couple weeks.

I can say it's certainly amazing that these things seem to follow such simple scripts. Nearly everything predicted by people here has come to pass. From the bad to the not so bad.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Her baker quit yesterday, but she can't find anyone to go in and now has to get up at 4am to go back in on her day off...


Not that it matters anymore but do you believe that? You probably know what she is doing...


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

keko said:


> Not that it matters anymore but do you believe that? You probably know what she is doing...


It might be true, it might not be. I do know that I'm not worried about it and if she feels the need to sneak around even when we're no longer together, then she can have at it. That said, she's already come out from underground and started using her phone to call/text him again, so she's not trying to hide it like she was before (she's not talking to him around me, but she does text occasionally). With the little sleep she's gotten this week and the fact that this is going to affect her seeing our older son right away when he gets home in the morning (not to mention how tired she'll be when she does finally see him, she said she nearly fell asleep when she was in the office at work today and passed out within minutes of walking in the door this afternoon, only to be woken up immediately by our younger son) I do believe she's actually going in, but if she's going to punish her already exhausted body to wake up at 4am and sneak over to see him then she's putting on a big show for no reason whatsoever in my opinion.

After the split became official I told her if she wanted to go do something and didn't want me to know what it was, that it wasn't my business anymore and she didn't need to feel obligated to tell me, as long as she didn't neglect the kids. In fact, she said when she's off on Monday she's going to go out for a little bit during the day without the kids. No mention of where and I didn't and won't ask.

I'm moving past worrying about this type of crap. I'm not going to speculate or look into it. I'll take her at her word and if she decides that she needs to lie, then so be it. With every lie she becomes less and less the great person she used to be... all I'm concerned about right now is me and making sure I'm doing the opposite.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

In the mean time don't forget about your son. Try to take care of him as much as you can during these times.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

keko said:


> In the mean time don't forget about your son. Try to take care of him as much as you can during these times.


No doubt about that, I may say over and over that I'm working on becoming a better me, but that certainly includes spending more GOOD time with my kids.

My three year old son and I had an awesome week. Took him to a "kid friendly" movie theater (big screen with tables and waiters, completely kid-oriented) Tuesday and yesterday took him to the kid's museum for a couple hours, which was an absolute blast. Not to mention watching some of his shows together, playing Mario on the Wii with him, and going to the store to visit grandma a couple times (she's a manager at Target and he loves that store, "can we look at toys daddy?").

Planned on doing a bit more, but he was pretty sick over the weekend and took him to the doctor on Monday morning, he has a bacterial infection that swelled his right tonsil up and kept him from eating much of anything over the weekend. He's understandably been pretty tired this week as a result, taking pretty long naps during the day.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Just keep moving forward. You are doing great. I have a suspicion your wife is having second thoughts. Get the divorce papers going and have her served. See how she reacts to the reality of losing you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Just keep moving forward. You are doing great. I have a suspicion your wife is having second thoughts. Get the divorce papers going and have her served. See how she reacts to the reality of losing you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
And don't let yourself get too isolated. I know you work from home, and it's great that you spend so much time with your boys, but don't let her stick you with watching the boys while she goes out.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> :iagree:
> And don't let yourself get too isolated. I know you work from home, and it's great that you spend so much time with your boys, but don't let her stick you with watching the boys while she goes out.


I'm certainly not going to allow that. Last night after seeing the MC I went out to the pool hall for the night. Had a good time hanging out with some familiar faces from OUTSIDE the home. A couple friends who know the situation seemed pretty surprised to see me out so soon.

I've gotten so much support from friends I didn't know I even had. People I considered nothing more than acquaintances who have taken time out of their days to call me, wish me well, and offer support. I mentioned this to a friend last night who said, "You have much more affect on people than you realize." This support has gone a long way to help me recover as quickly as I have. I hope someday to be able to show each of them how much I appreciate the support they've given me.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What if she fools around with him for a month or two and wants to get back? Would you be able to take her back then? Or is this the end? Have you discussed the situation? What if she finds Mr.New not as wonderful and the new you much more attractive after a couple of months?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And a key part of the 180 is you tell her when you will be out of the house (without kids) but say nothing about what you are doing and who you are with. It is no longer her business. If she asks you politely shut her down. And she no longer has the right to be just curious about anything in your life. And the less you tell her the more 180 it is.

UOTE=Bucksinnc;666628]I'm certainly not going to allow that. Last night after seeing the MC I went out to the pool hall for the night. Had a good time hanging out with some familiar faces from OUTSIDE the home. A couple friends who know the situation seemed pretty surprised to see me out so soon.

I've gotten so much support from friends I didn't know I even had. People I considered nothing more than acquaintances who have taken time out of their days to call me, wish me well, and offer support. I mentioned this to a friend last night who said, "You have much more affect on people than you realize." This support has gone a long way to help me recover as quickly as I have. I hope someday to be able to show each of them how much I appreciate the support they've given me.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What if she fools around with him for a month or two and wants to get back? Would you be able to take her back then? Or is this the end? Have you discussed the situation? What if she finds Mr.New not as wonderful and the new you much more attractive after a couple of months?


I haven't discussed the situation with her, if that's what you're asking.

I'm not in a position to answer the rest of that with any certainty at this point. I'm viewing this as the end, which I feel is necessary to be able to move forward, but I'm not going to completely shut the door on us being together again, at least not right now. If things end with him and she tries to come back, it certainly won't be as easy as that. IF... IF I am willing to give her a chance, it will only start off as that, a chance. She will have an extremely tough road ahead of her rebuilding what she so easily cast aside.

I'd be lying if I said the thought of her coming back never crosses my mind, but it's not what I'm putting any energy into. If my changes/strengthening brings her back, then I will have a decision to make.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Is you wife talking to someone else for advice? You said that she is under a lot of stress at work, so she might not be making the most rational decisions now. And does her family know? I think exposure of the impending divorce and that she is seeing other people to her family might do some good.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Start putting yourself out there again. Toss your old clothes and buy some stylish new duds. Spend some money on yourself. Get a haircut, new watch, new shoes, new cologne. 

Next, Friday, tell her she has the kids. Get dressed up swank in new clothes that she has never seen you in. Let her see you getting ready and leaving. When she asks you where are you going, tell her with a smile and a very aloof tone "Out. See ya." 

Then hit a nice club and chat up the ladies. Get your flirt engine cranked up and running again. Dance and have fun until closing. Then go hit an IHOP for coffe and pie. Stay out until 6:00 or 7:00 a.m. the next morning. 

When you get home, make some noise so she knows your back. When you walk in, walk in with a big fat smile on your face. If she asks where your were, tell her "Oh, just out and about...". Then just go to bed. Tell her nothing.

She'll be tearing her motor up the rest of the day trying to figure out where your were and what you did. 

This is how you attract a wayward wife back to you. :FIREdevil:


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Start putting yourself out there again. Toss your old clothes and buy some stylish new duds. Spend some money on yourself. Get a haircut, new watch, new shoes, new cologne.
> 
> Next, Friday, tell her she has the kids. Get dressed up swank in new clothes that she has never seen you in. Let her see you getting ready and leaving. When she asks you where are you going, tell her with a smile and a very aloof tone "Out. See ya."
> 
> ...


I got a great laugh out of this. Fantastic idea, but I'm certainly NOT the club/dancing/chatting up the ladies type. 

I do like the idea of going out a little dressed up and having a good time going somewhere a little different/nicer though. I NEVER get dressed up and it might be a nice change to go do something like that vs. going to the pool hall or the same old bar.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Struggling a bit today. Our five year old just got back into town and after being gone all week and all of us have spent the day together, went downtown for an Easter egg hunt and just got done coloring eggs as a family.

It's the first day we've really been together as a family since everything went down and it's been kinda rough. Have had to sneak off to the bathroom a few times to collect myself. I'm trying to stay strong/confident, but it hasn't been as easy today with all the time we're spending together.

More than anything I'm getting on here to type this just to collect myself. It helps to get this stuff out there in some fashion, since I can't share my feelings with her.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Struggling a bit today. Our five year old just got back into town and after being gone all week and all of us have spent the day together, went downtown for an Easter egg hunt and just got done coloring eggs as a family.
> 
> It's the first day we've really been together as a family since everything went down and it's been kinda rough. Have had to sneak off to the bathroom a few times to collect myself. I'm trying to stay strong/confident, but it hasn't been as easy today with all the time we're spending together.
> 
> More than anything I'm getting on here to type this just to collect myself. It helps to get this stuff out there in some fashion, since I can't share my feelings with her.


Sorry It's a good idea to come here to get things written down when you're feeling overwhelmed. Keep up the 180. Take care.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Struggling a bit today. Our five year old just got back into town and after being gone all week and all of us have spent the day together, went downtown for an Easter egg hunt and just got done coloring eggs as a family.
> 
> It's the first day we've really been together as a family since everything went down and it's been kinda rough. Have had to sneak off to the bathroom a few times to collect myself. I'm trying to stay strong/confident, but it hasn't been as easy today with all the time we're spending together.
> 
> More than anything I'm getting on here to type this just to collect myself. It helps to get this stuff out there in some fashion, since I can't share my feelings with her.


Sorry to hear. Just vent here when you feel bad.

Did you start the divorce? Her being served might be the last wake up call to her, that's if she realizes what she did and shows remorse.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

A few text messages later she "needed to get out" for an hour or two, saying she was feeling stressed with us being around each other so much today. She left with my oldest son crying in my arms begging to go with her.

I knew things would be harder when he got back and she "needed" to get away. He's so sensitive and he has an idea of what's going on. I feel like she's being extremely selfish right now and I don't feel like I can say anything without being the bad guy.

I have to show no anger, frustration, etc. But damn it's NOT easy. Pray for me (or wish me luck, whichever you'd prefer), today has been very trying and I feel like I'm going in the wrong direction right now.

While she's gone I'm going to do my best to collect myself. I need to get back that strength I've had most of this past week. Our morning/early afternoon was fun and I was doing very well beyond a couple hiccups I managed to control, but it's quickly gone downhill from there.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

keko said:


> Did you start the divorce? Her being served might be the last wake up call to her, that's if she realizes what she did and shows remorse.


Something I've been meaning to address on here...

We were married nearly six years ago. However, the paperwork never actually went through (NOT our fault) and we never got it completely taken care of (despite multiple trips downtown, lots of paperwork, and lots of promises that THIS time it would be taken care of). It's an almost surreal story that maybe I'll eventually share, but the point is: There is no divorce paperwork to be filed as our marriage never made it through the system.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

It's hard for me to understand the mindset of a woman who could walk out on a crying 5 year old, especially when he's been gone all week  I just don't get it at all. Unbelievable. 

I guess it's true what they say about an affair being like a drug; nothing else matters.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

She just walked out on her crying child? OMFG!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Thank God your kids have a good father.. I think you are doing a terrific job with all this...It is I'm sure the hardest thing ever..I'll be praying for you. Keep your chin up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Thank God your kids have a good father.. I think you are doing a terrific job with all this...It is I'm sure the hardest thing ever..I'll be praying for you. Keep your chin up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm just worried they won't see it that way. After she left he blamed me for not being able to go with mommy. Absolutely broke my heart. I sat there crying with him for a couple minutes.

He's doing a little better now, but he's still pretty upset.

Deep breaths Mike, deep breaths.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Its a marathon, not a short sprint. As your son grows up he'll realize who left him and who stayed by him. Never forget that.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Who's name is on the mortgage? If it is yours, and your state does not recognize common law marriage, change the locks and have her clothes waiting for her on the porch. Kick her sorry ass out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/43450-fog.html#post665715

Don't know if you've seen this thread or not; thought it might help.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/43450-fog.html#post665715
> 
> Don't know if you've seen this thread or not; thought it might help.


It's amazing to me reading/hearing things like this.

I honestly believe the worst part of all of this, by far, is that I have to accept there is absolutely NOTHING I can say to make her understand just what she's doing. Not only is there nothing I can say, but if I were to, it would only make things worse.

I can't remember where I read it (might've been here), but sometime in the last week I remember something that I've taken to heart when talking to her: Using logic will only push them further away.

This whole thing has be surreal to me. She's a smart, caring person. She's been a great mother and a great wife. She's always been selfless in her actions, finding happiness in giving other people joy. Now? I don't even recognize her. The person I met seven years ago does not exist. I can come to terms with us growing apart, but this has been something else altogether.

In other news, I was very calm by the time she got back home this afternoon. I had a very civil talk with her, didn't express my anger/frustrations, and have gotten back to being strong since.

After the kids go to bed I'm taking a little advice from bandit and going to go out for the night. I got my haircut earlier this week... I'm going to take a shower, get cleaned up, dress up a little (I'm normally just a t-shirt, jeans, and ball cap guy) and go enjoy myself.

I'm pretty sick of sitting here anyways, just about all she's done since 2:30 or so other than bail for a couple hours and later have dinner with us is sit on the couch and text.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan  Bandit's a good one to listen to.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah I'm Mr Brainiac. Just got back from a day in the mountains with my dogs. I've got a sunburn, cactus spines in my leg and dog hair all over me. A real Cassanova am I. 

Buck, I'm glad you understand your wife is suffering from a kind of insanity. Nothing you can do. Go out, have fun and don't come home til the sun comes up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Buck,

I followed your other thread and now that your wife has chosen this path you need to understand she will not come back to you on her own. You need to proceed as you have been but ramp it up even more. You need to get a lawyer and find out what your rights are pronto. Just because you may not be able to have her served with divorce papers doesn't mean she can't get a large harsh dose of reality asap. Find out if you can force her to move out. That might be the quickest way to force her into a reality check. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it really isn't.

Oh and maybe next time she wants to go out have HER tell your child why she doesn't want to comfort him. I don't think you should be the bad guy for her.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I completely blew it tonight.

I came home from my night out and went into our bedroom for a pillow. I closed the door a harder than intentioned and it woke her up. She came out frustrated saying, "just go sleep in the room". I told her to go back to bed, she had to work in the morning.

She went back to bed and then my big mistake happened. I went and got a glass of water... but out of frustration slammed the fridge door and she came out pissed off. Unfortunately my reaction was to reciprocate and it went on from there. In my anger I told her everything I thought she was doing wrong... neglecting the kids, bailing on her family, etc. Obviously it didn't go well...

She tried to leave and I tried to calm her down. It didn't work. Eventually she left, only to come back because she forgot her phone. She wandered the house looking for it, while I tried to talk to her, which she had no interest in. Eventually her ignoring me enraged me to the point where I yelled, "fine, I'll call your damn phone, then you can run off to (OM)."

At this point our youngest woke up. She grabbed him to comfort him and told me to go away, to get out. I didn't, I tried again to calm her down, but the damage was beyond done.

I ruined everything. I did everything I could up until tonight to stay under control and in one fell swoop I not only ruined that, but went well beyond overboard. I feel like I just destroyed my family tonight. I destroyed any chance of us living under the same roof. I destroyed any trust/friendship her and I had any chance at. I destroyed the relationship between us and our children. And I did it all in the span of a few minutes...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bucks,
As you are not in your right mind I would like to share an observation with you. Your wife decided to burn the house down. She lit it on fire while you were sleeping. You have woken up and rescued the children so far. As to whether or not she allows you to rescue her there is no way to know. She lit the house on fire, you didn't.





Bucksinnc said:


> I completely blew it tonight.
> 
> I came home from my night out and went into our bedroom for a pillow. I closed the door a harder than intentioned and it woke her up. She came out frustrated saying, "just go sleep in the room". I told her to go back to bed, she had to work in the morning.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I talked to her for the last 45 minutes (it took me a few texts to get her out of the bedroom). I was able to mend the situation as best I could. Obviously I couldn't fix all of my actions, but I went a long way in calming things down.

MEM, I understand that it's HER actions that put us in our current situation, but I also understand that my dropping down to the level I did tonight only makes things worse for me, her, and my kids. I don't need her to come back to me for me to be happy, but I do need her to respect me so that she doesn't pass on any ill will to my kids or her family (who may in turn pass on those feelings on to the kids).

My actions tonight were in complete contradiction to what I've been trying to become. I can only hope that tonight ends up being a wake-up call instead of a sign of things to come. I let my stress/frustration get the best of me and I CANNOT allow that to happen again. I took a massive step in the wrong direction tonight.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Agreed. And for this you have/or will apologize one time and one time only. And then move on and do not reference it again and don't let it occur again. And when she references it, to gain leverage, and she will do so at some point, you can simply respond in a calm manner with this: If you wish to discuss the events of that night, I am game provided we do so in context. So lets start with you explaining why you think betraying me and the children was ok. If you don't want to start with that, then we are not going to talk about what i did in response.



Bucksinnc said:


> I talked to her for the last 45 minutes (it took me a few texts to get her out of the bedroom). I was able to mend the situation as best I could. Obviously I couldn't fix all of my actions, but I went a long way in calming things down.
> 
> MEM, I understand that it's HER actions that put us in our current situation, but I also understand that my dropping down to the level I did tonight only makes things worse for me, her, and my kids. I don't need her to come back to me for me to be happy, but I do need her to respect me so that she doesn't pass on any ill will to my kids or her family (who may in turn pass on those feelings on to the kids).
> 
> My actions tonight were in complete contradiction to what I've been trying to become. I can only hope that tonight ends up being a wake-up call instead of a sign of things to come.  I let my stress/frustration get the best of me and I CANNOT allow that to happen again. I took a massive step in the wrong direction tonight.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

One last thing. When she gets on her phone to text the other man, you get up and silently leave the room. In the mean time stop with all the polite conversations about her day unless she is able to show you enough respect to not text the om right in front of you. The 180 is not about being angry or hostile, but it does discourage friendly chatting with your betrayor...



Bucksinnc said:


> I talked to her for the last 45 minutes (it took me a few texts to get her out of the bedroom). I was able to mend the situation as best I could. Obviously I couldn't fix all of my actions, but I went a long way in calming things down.
> 
> MEM, I understand that it's HER actions that put us in our current situation, but I also understand that my dropping down to the level I did tonight only makes things worse for me, her, and my kids. I don't need her to come back to me for me to be happy, but I do need her to respect me so that she doesn't pass on any ill will to my kids or her family (who may in turn pass on those feelings on to the kids).
> 
> My actions tonight were in complete contradiction to what I've been trying to become. I can only hope that tonight ends up being a wake-up call instead of a sign of things to come. I let my stress/frustration get the best of me and I CANNOT allow that to happen again. I took a massive step in the wrong direction tonight.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I think you're starting to head in the wrong direction.

Fine if you want to be civil for the kids. But she should move out and live with the other man if that's what she wants. If not, then she will have to put up with your frustrations from time to time. You are human. You WILL have future relapses of getting frustrated and showing it.

She had the affair and, if you get mad or show frustration, *you shouldn't be apologizing for it*.

You are acting like there's some great catastrophe that the two of you are battling as partners, working together to prevent harm to the children. The problem is, SHE is the catastrophe, and you are treating her like a partner. Stay aloof. Be civil. If you get frustrated and show it, DON'T APOLOGIZE. Don't try to stop her from leaving. Don't beg her to stay. Do the opposite. When she starts to leave, tell her good riddance. Tell her to go the other man and see how he likes having her.

A big part of the problem is that she has chosen the other man, but she doesn't have to put up with him. She gets all the lovey dovey texts, their future dreams together alone on some island all lovey dovey, no screaming kids, no bills to pay, no house to clean, no responsibilities, just fun and games and lovey-dovey talk about their ideal future together. Once she has to live with him, things will start to change quickly. She will see all his flaws and they will be much bigger flaws than yours. There is a reason he is still single.

She's turning the tables on you, making you the bad guy. Let her know that she's the one who chose the affair and she's the one who snuck around behind your and the kids back and lied. She could have been honest with you, told you to your face she was leaving you, and shown you the respect you deserve, based on the length and tenor of your marriage and as the father of her children, to refrain from cheating on you and wait until your divorce is final.

In case you haven't realized it, you now have a teenage daughter living in your house. Your wife will be acting like a child. Throwing tantrums. Saying anything to get her way. Stomping out of the house when she gets mad at you, with you running after her and begging her to come back, when actually she's the one who should be begging you. Acting like she has a schoolgirl crush.

If she finds she can't handle it when you show some frustration, tell her to pack her stuff and go live with the other man. She can come by during the day to take care of the kids, then go back to him at night. And let her explain why to the kids. This explanation to the kids has to happen at some point. Just like the choose other man or choose me situation, it's better if it happens sooner rather than later. One way or another this pain has to be faced, why prolong it? The kids are not going to benefit from the way things are going now, you've only been at it a few days and already they're crying about mommy leaving for a few hours. It will help them to know that mommy will leave but mommy will come back and mommy will always love them. It will help mommy to see and understand what she's doing. And it will help you, too.


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Bucks, 

She did all this, not you. What you are doing is normal. You are defending your children the right way, you are not the one waking them up at night, nor did you start this.

The perpetrator...your WS, is the one to blame...dont blame yourself. AND if I was in your situation, if she wants to leave, let her leave...you make sure you look after yourself and your kids.

Basically Man up - really man up...and do whats right for you, by you.

Cheers
D


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

If you want a civil relationship with her in the future, you two should live in different houses asap. This time you only yelled at her, god knows what you'll do next time. 

If there is no marriage, then you two don't have to live together. The more you see her the more you're likely to lose your temper and act out of control, again.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Buck, I don't understand why you have to be the one at her feet, panicking, apologizing. She is texting her lover right in front of you, and you're the one who has to walk on eggshells? She needed to hear that she was neglecting the kids, etc. Do not coddle her or very soon she will start treating you like a doormat. She needs to see that you have the inner strength and self-respect to set clear boundaries. She wants to see the OM? Go ahead, let her. Do not ever try to stop her. 

You're stuffing down all your valid frustrations about her, and that's not good. Not good at all. You have to stand up for yourself and your kids. I know you want to be civil and don't want any ill will going around, but there is such a thing called righteous indignation. She's seeing another man and has let it all hang out in the open, is very vocal about how uncomfortable she is when you're together, leaves your son as he is crying and begging her to stay--what, you're not allowed to be enraged? Wake up, Buck. Please, for your sake and your children's. You cannot live under one roof. She wants to keep seeing OM, she has to leave.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ask her to move out. Get back on the 180 and go completely dark except for talking about the kids. Do not apologize to her. She cannot be reasoned with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Buck don't be too hard on yourself. The 180 degrees and *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* are tough and rarely can be implemented without some setbacks along the way.

The most likely reason why she was p!ssed was because you went out and her mind started to wonder if you were with another woman. The next time she tries to push your buttons and your feeling like loosing control, *GET OUT OF THE HOUSE*. Arguing with her solves absolutely nothing, frightens the children needlessly, and only gives her a sense of power that she can get an emotional response out of you whenever she wants.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Agreed. Dust yourself off, get back on the horse and keep riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Had a great day with the kids today. Morning at home with just me and them (and what the Easter Bunny brought) and a fun afternoon with them, my mom, brother, and some family friends.

Was pretty tough having them leave with her this afternoon though. This kind of thing is going to be very difficult to handle for awhile. They're going to her mom's for the night and will be back after lunch tomorrow. I'm hoping that not seeing her for the next couple of days (other than her dropping off the kids tomorrow and coming home for bed) will help get me back on track.

I have to say, I do feel like a weight was lifted last night. I'm still disappointed in myself about how I handled it, but I got a lot of stuff out that I've been holding back.

I'm working on getting things together so we no longer have to live under the same roof. It certainly is becoming clear that being around her so much won't work (once again, you guys are right, lol). Unfortunately it won't happen overnight, but I know I have to get the wheels in motion.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Good job Buck. Happy Easter


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Now that you have some of the anger out of your system, do a hard 180 on her. No talking at all unless it has to do with the kids. Get that divorce going and stay away from her. Keep going out and having fun, work on yourself, get in shape, live for the kids' but don't let her feel you have any regard for her. You gave some of the power back to her last night, now you have to let that go and not give her any more ammo to use against you. You cannot afford to lose it with her again, because each time you do you give her another cartridge to load in her rifle. 

Treat her like a piece of furniture to be ignored, unless she's in the way and you have to walk around her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BTW good job at p!ssing her off. It means you did something right by going out and coming home late.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Now that you have some of the anger out of your system, do a hard 180 on her. No talking at all unless it has to do with the kids. Get that divorce going and stay away from her. Keep going out and having fun, work on yourself, get in shape, live for the kids' but don't let her feel you have any regard for her. You gave some of the power back to her last night, now you have to let that go and not give her any more ammo to use against you. You cannot afford to lose it with her again, because each time you do you give her another cartridge to load in her rifle.
> 
> Treat her like a piece of furniture to be ignored, unless she's in the way and you have to walk around her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're absolutely right.

I'm going to focus more on the 180. It won't be easy to just completely stop talking to her like that, but I am finally coming to terms with the fact that it might just be necessary. I've talked to her quite a bit this week, tried to be kind/civil, but I'm seeing that it's done nothing but make it easier on her and that is unacceptable.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Buck,

In case you haven't realized it yet you are living with an addict and talking to her, covering for her, etc is enabling her addiction. Let me put this question to you. What has she lost? She has the OM. She still has you. She is still living in her comfortable house. She still sees the kids whenever she wants to. She still has you to pay the bills and take care of things. Why should she change a thing. She has it all. Everything her little dark cheating heart desires. And you are handing it to her on a silver platter as she kicks you in the nuts.

Stop talking to her. When she starts talking about her day, walk away. When she complains about something do not respond. Treat her like an unwelcome house guest because that is what she is. Why should she have the bed? Because she has work? Why do you care at this point? When you son cries for her why do you step in and comfort him? Why do you make excuses for her to him? She is not facing any consequences and until she does she will not stop. Just like an addict she needs to hit rock bottom. As long as you are catching her she never will and eventually your arms are going to get tired.

Face it. Until you are prepared to lose her and cut her loose you are her b!tch. And how can she respect and love a b!tch.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with Wulf.

Also, get to a lawyer and have your marital status checked. Just because the license was never recorded, doesn't mean there are not common law statutes in your state that would render the two of you legally married for having lived together for this amount of time. You need to make sure the two of you're not married.

Again, whose name is on the house title? If the house is solely yours, and she is not named as a joint tenant or tenant in common, then you can legally boot her out, but you have to server her with a written 30 day eviction notice. If its your house, do not move out!!!


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

They're renting.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> They're renting.


Good. Now he just needs to figure out the marital status. If he's not married, he needs to wait for the lease to expire and move on.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Good. Now he just needs to figure out the marital status. If he's not married, he needs to wait for the lease to expire and move on.


If the lease is in his name only can't he force her to leave?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> If the lease is in his name only can't he force her to leave?


Not immediately. He has to serve her with a written 30 day notice of eviction.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Not immediately. He has to serve her with a written 30 day notice of eviction.


Then if I were him I'd get pen to paper. That will be a wakeup call for sure.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Good. Now he just needs to figure out the marital status. If he's not married, he needs to wait for the lease to expire and move on.


Unfortunately the lease on our house has another 10 months left. The lease is in both names.

She called to have the boys say goodnight. My five year old always says just the right things to get me crying, "I told mommy I don't want to go to bed. I want to come to you to go to bed in your house." What a sweet little boy I have.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Unfortunately the lease on our house has another 10 months left. The lease is in both names.
> 
> She called to have the boys say goodnight. My five year old always says just the right things to get me crying, "I told mommy I don't want to go to bed. I want to come to you to go to bed in your house." What a sweet little boy I have.


Is early termination possible?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Does your wife's family know about her affair? Are they enabling it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Does your wife's family know about her affair? Are they enabling it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's the thing... I'm working on getting past it. She still doesn't think what she did was all that bad and she has her family convinced he's just a friend who is lending an ear. I have zero desire to try and convince them otherwise. I feel like putting effort into trying to "expose" her affair is only going to have me dwelling on it that much longer and I don't want to be in the situation.

She's made this decision. I'm trying to move past it and worry about me now.

Since yesterday I've tried to focus more on taking a hard 180. It's been damn difficult at times, but I know I have to do it.

I went out today and hung out with my brother for a few hours and now the kids are back home with me. The contact I've had with her since she took the kids yesterday was her calling to let the kids say goodnight to me, her calling at 1:30 today to ask where I was (she just got home with the boys), and me seeing her for maybe five minutes before she left for the rest of the afternoon. I asked nothing in either phone conversation, I gave short answers to the couple questions she asked (how was your day type stuff) and never responded with, "how about you?". 

When I came home at 2:00 she asked if I had fun today, I said, "Yep." Then I talked just to the kids, asking what they'd done at grandmas, what they did today, and if they had fun. After a minute or two she said her goodbyes to the kids, told me she'd be back tonight, and started walking out the door. I stopped her and asked her if she was going to clean up the stuff her and the kids had laying around from the 30 minutes they were home. BOY did this ever strike a nerve. She picked up the stuff, said a in very annoyed voice, "I'll be back later", and out the door she went.

All that said, my body is feeling VERY stressed. I can't seem to calm myself enough to relax for even a minute. It's very tiring, but the act of trying to rest only makes things worse. Even sitting here and typing this feels very taxing.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

You're doing great. You need some sleep I bet..The stress is getting to you physically. Keep on doing what you're doing..I know it's hard but don't give in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

See your doc, there's no shame in getting drugs during the most stressful time in your life


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I stopped her and asked her if she was going to clean up the stuff her and the kids had laying around from the 30 minutes they were home. BOY did this ever strike a nerve. She picked up the stuff, said a in very annoyed voice, "I'll be back later", and out the door she went.


Excellent, you are not being her doormat. Good for you.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I will need some added strength tonight. She just got home from her afternoon "out". It's ridiculously hard not prying into what she was up to. I have access to phone records and after she goes to bed I can check any e-mails she may send him before bed (and when I last looked on Saturday, she had been sending one every night)... What a horrible, horrible temptation that is.

But I won't check, I know I can't. I'm just worried it's going to drive me nuts if I'm honest. That said, I did not ask how her night was, the only thing I've said to her was "he's in bed, he didn't eat his dinner" and "they had burgers, apples, and veggies" in response to her asking where our youngest son was and why he was in bed. Now she's getting some laundry ready and playing games with our other son for a few minutes before bed.

Damn will I ever need help getting to sleep tonight.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I'm just worried they won't see it that way. After she left he blamed me for not being able to go with mommy. Absolutely broke my heart. I sat there crying with him for a couple minutes.
> 
> He's doing a little better now, but he's still pretty upset.
> 
> Deep breaths Mike, deep breaths.


My 8 yr old told me that I was the boss and I needed to tell daddy to get back home and he'd have to do it because I am the boss. I can laugh at it now, and probably did then too (I had just told him that dad moved out and not living w/ us anymore - he wouldn't tell them). They need it explained that you have no control over her because she is an adult and once he turns 18 you won't be able to tell him what to do. Let him know this isn't what you want and that you want mommy home too. 

I know they say to put on a front w/ the kids that it is a joint decision but when you have absolutely no say in it I refuse to support lying to the kids. I see kids are much smarter than parents give them credit for. Besides having many of my own kids I also work w/ them and have seen too much fallout from family 'issues.'


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> I know they say to put on a front w/ the kids that it is a joint decision but when you have absolutely no say in it I refuse to support lying to the kids. I see kids are much smarter than parents give them credit for. Besides having many of my own kids I also work w/ them and have seen too much fallout from family 'issues.'


We both sat down and talked with them about what was happening, but I refuse to lie to them. My oldest has had several comments and questions that have made me cry, when he asks why I'm crying I tell him. If she doesn't like it, too damn bad.

In other news, tonight before she went to bed we had a quick conversation:

Her: Did you have fun with the kids tonight?
Me: Yeah.
Her: Are you not talking to me anymore?
Me: Huh? I said yeah. What do you mean?
Her: You just seem different today.
Me: You've seen me for like five minutes all day.
Her: I know, you just feel different, I can't explain it.
Me (shrugging shoulders): Ok.

FWIW, I will keep updating this thread. I check it quite a bit throughout the day hoping for more replies/advice. I find it helps me a little to check in every so often and add any updates I might have, no matter how small.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I remember when my hubby was doing the 180 and at the time I was clueless and I remember asking him the same thing..couldn't figure him out why he was acting so different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Bucks,

This 180 will work in your favour! Keep it up. Do not regress, do not let her will her way back to you. Keep going.

As far as the stress is concerned, I too went through the same thing. I got really sick, and mentally when my STBXW left us, I had to go to my Dads to get him to help my kids, while I just slept and prayed. 

Get some sleep...stay off TAM for awhile and get rest. Eat well, no junk food, heaps of vegies and fruit. Ask help from your side of the family to look after the kids...dont ask her. Key is you, and your drive and confidence. This will take weeks my friend.

Really take care.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> We both sat down and talked with them about what was happening, but I refuse to lie to them. My oldest has had several comments and questions that have made me cry, when he asks why I'm crying I tell him. If she doesn't like it, too damn bad.
> 
> In other news, tonight before she went to bed we had a quick conversation:
> 
> ...



Good luck to you. It is inspiring because I can see the same responses.

I have had the difficult conversations with my children. I cry so easily. They used to ask if my eyes were sweating. Now, they just ask if I'm crying.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

dalvin_au said:


> Bucks,
> 
> This 180 will work in your favour! Keep it up. Do not regress, do not let her will her way back to you. Keep going.
> 
> ...


Funny enough, after our conversation about me acting differently, I felt much better... I almost instantly lost all desire to snoop around and I'm actually feeling kinda tired.

I don't normally go to bed quite this early, but I think I'm going to take advantage of this wonderful feeling of sleepiness and try to pass out now.

Also just had a friend invite me over for dinner tomorrow night. So when she gets home from work, I'm out the door!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Think of us here at TAM as your surrogate spouses. We are now filling the void your wife used to inhabit. Feel free to vent here and post your progress daily. 

Besides, we all like to live vicariously through each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

How are you doing today Buck? Did you get some sleep? I hope you'll listen to Almostrecovered, and see your doctor.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Besides, we all like to live vicariously through each other.
> ]


speak for yourself, I have no desire to be an over sized leprechaun


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> How are you doing today Buck? Did you get some sleep? I hope you'll listen to Almostrecovered, and see your doctor.


I'm doing pretty well right now. I got about 7-8 hours of sleep, I did wake up a couple times, but was able to get back to sleep fairly quick. I woke up feeling pretty refreshed.

I've found some motivation and I'm getting some work done today. Cleaned up the third bedroom, organized some things, and have quite a bit I'm getting ready to sell on eBay (stuff from my old online business, stuff I've been sitting on for a couple years now). I'm going to kinda start hoarding money for now to prepare for the day we're both no longer under the same roof.

I don't have a doctor, but I did start looking into finding one last night to see if medication would be a good short-term solution for me. I'm certainly not ashamed to have a little help right now. I feel good at the moment, but obviously things are coming in huge waves, it would be nice to calm the waters so I can STAY focused on what needs to be done.

The plan for the rest of the day is to get some more work done... and afterwards I'm looking forward to getting out of the house for dinner tonight!


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## cabin fever (Feb 9, 2012)

I don't post alot here, mostly just lurk, buy DAYUM I feel like I am watching a video of my situation! 

I feel your pain man. When I was going through the D we both lived in the same house, and it was HARD!

Keep doing the 180! Change your appearance. I lost over 20# changed my wardrobe, hair cut, everything. 

Its pretty obvious she has already noticed your differences. Keep it up, and keep em coming at her! Not only not engaging in conversation, but make her wonder what you're doing. The best defense is a GREAT offense! :smthumbup:

Include your kids in EVERYTHING you do. Show them, and her you are the better person. This will drive her nuts! I took my son to BB games, hunting, races, shooting, anything I could think of. I needed to lean on him more then he needed me. It helped in alot of different ways. It also made us much closer to this day, and I have some great memories. (my 9y/o shot a 357 mag multiple times, and grin on his face will never leave my memory!)

Another thing that helped me, was one morning I woke up and said I was done with feeling like crap! I was going to have a good day, no matter what! NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING was going to bring me down.  After that, I did it again and again. Slowly day by day I got to the point that I didn't really care what she was doing or who she was with. I just simply didn't care anymore. 

I started changing myself. I was determined to take something postive from my situation. In my case I was determined to become a better person! It worked wonders. In becoming a better person i was amazed at how more noticed I became (I'm far from Brad Pitt) but just being a postive individual with some confidence, and new clothes was amazing. The comments I got frrom strangers was a huge ego booster! For the first time in a long time I had women I had never meant striking up a conversation with me! 

I fast tracked everything I could. Sold my boat, and our nicest car within weeks of D-day. With in 1 month our house was on the market, and the retainer was paid to the attorney! 

in the end she came out of her fog, I forgave, and we have moved on. It was not easy and still is not. Every day is a little better, and I am glad I have my family back, but the BS I had to go through I wouldn't wish on anyone.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> speak for yourself, I have no desire to be an over sized leprechaun


Ha ha... very funny.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I'm doing pretty well right now. I got about 7-8 hours of sleep, I did wake up a couple times, but was able to get back to sleep fairly quick. I woke up feeling pretty refreshed.
> 
> I've found some motivation and I'm getting some work done today. Cleaned up the third bedroom, organized some things, and have quite a bit I'm getting ready to sell on eBay (stuff from my old online business, stuff I've been sitting on for a couple years now). I'm going to kinda start hoarding money for now to prepare for the day we're both no longer under the same roof.
> 
> ...


That's great, Buck! You sound a lot more positive now. It won't be easy but take it one step at a time. I wish you the best.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I've found some motivation and I'm getting some work done today. Cleaned up the third bedroom, organized some things, and have quite a bit I'm getting ready to sell on eBay (stuff from my old online business, stuff I've been sitting on for a couple years now). I'm going to kinda start hoarding money for now to prepare for the day we're both no longer under the same roof....
> 
> ....The plan for the rest of the day is to get some more work done... and afterwards I'm looking forward to getting out of the house for dinner tonight!


Good! All good. You know what you ought to do? Start packing. Get some boxes and start packing up all your stuff that you plan to take with you and let her see you do it. This may be an additional douse of cold reality on her... or it may not. Either way, you will be that much closer to being ready to move when the day comes. 

Have you thought about subletting the house?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Buck you should be really proud of yourself...this is the worse thing for someone to go thru..I'm cheering for ya...also been praying for you and I mean that..I am a praying woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I definitely appreciate the prayers, I need the extra strength.

We briefly mentioned subletting the house and that might be something we look into some more as we get closer to being in separate homes.

The vast majority of the day I felt pretty good, pretty strong. A little over an hour ago, while still out for the night, I started going downhill a bit. I ended up leaving earlier than I planned, as I was really starting to struggle. I came home, had a very small cry in the bathroom, and now I'm on here.

I'm feeling a little better now that I'm typing this and I'm starting to feel very tired, which is making me think the weakness may have stemmed from exhaustion. I did get some good sleep last night, but one night certainly doesn't make up for nearly two weeks of bad to horrible sleep.

I'm still holding strong in regards to conversations with her and making sure I don't spy on her. There is/was some temptation tonight to check up on her, but I won't.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

May I ask you all why he is not supposed to spy on her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> May I ask you all why he is not supposed to spy on her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's part of the 180. I'm guessing for a number of reasons...

1. I'd just be punishing myself, looking for information that can really only hurt me. I know she's talking to him, I know he's "more than a friend", we're no longer together, so what good does it do?

2. Let's say I don't find "enough". It just makes me that much more likely to question her, which is something I certainly don't need to do.

3. Let's say I find too much. Again, now I'm just punishing myself. Maybe now I'm angry, hurt, and I call her out. Yet another thing I don't need to do. Even if I don't call her out, now I'm hurting even more than before.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I figure I'm not supposed to. It makes perfect sense to me, because every time I read an e-mail or other communication between them it tore me up. I only read those messages once or twice and I feel like I have them burned into my mind. I don't need more of that.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Just wondering, after my EA and after I came home hubby called our cell phone company to get itemized statements of every text, the number and time of each one, phone calls too, cost him some money but then again we are reconciling and you aren't so I dont know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

While you may not want to spy, you might need them in case she wants to reconcile. See if you can forward them to a (new) email account automatically so that you have them without reading them. She might delete the evidence after some time. Doing so, you can have a record of the extent of betrayal. Say if she had a PA, you might not want to reconcile. It will help you take a more informed decision if you have to. You can always delete them when R becomes pointless.


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Try not to spy, its just an addictive and vindictive move that only hurts yourself. Sometimes too much information is bad for you...


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> While you may not want to spy, you might need them in case she wants to reconcile. See if you can forward them to a (new) email account automatically so that you have them without reading them. She might delete the evidence after some time. Doing so, you can have a record of the extent of betrayal. Say if she had a PA, you might not want to reconcile. It will help you take a more informed decision if you have to. You can always delete them when R becomes pointless.


I pretty much expect that it has gone physical by now. Whether or not that means sex, I don't know. I last looked at her e-mails on Saturday... four days AFTER we were "done", and by that point the e-mails still appeared to show nothing physical had happened yet. But she was out with him for six hours on Monday (at least I assume she was with him the whole time) and has left for work very early the last two mornings, so I'm guessing by now SOMETHING has happened.

That said, at this point, it wouldn't be considered a PA, since we're no longer together. If I found out she'd done something physical with him it would only serve to hurt me and make my recovery that much harder.

I'm trying to view this thing from the standpoint that we will never try to reconcile. I think it's necessary to help me truly move forward.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

In other news... my dreams were AWFUL to me last night. I had two dreams I clearly remember.

BOTH involved her showing interest in me (one she pretty much jumped me in bed) while still talking to him. Woke up immediately after each dream, which cut into my sleep a good bit last night as I had trouble getting back to sleep afterward.

Had a rough start to the morning as a result, but I think I'm coming out of it OK.


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## cabin fever (Feb 9, 2012)

Again I feel ya man. I had a dream during my BullSheit, that my wife came up, and hugged me, and told me she loved me, etc. Then I woke up, and felt like crap. 

IT GETS BETTER! it really does! You will only be able to take so much BS before you realize YOU ARE A BETTER PERSON, and YOU DESERVE BETTER! Once you realize that, its almost like a weight is lifted off your shoulders. Thats when all the pieces start falling into place. You won't care anymore, you will feel better, and your wife will be on the offensive wondering what you are doing!

Just keeping telling yourself you deserve better! Challange yourself to be better!


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> It's part of the 180. I'm guessing for a number of reasons...
> 
> 1. I'd just be punishing myself, looking for information that can really only hurt me. I know she's talking to him, I know he's "more than a friend", we're no longer together, so what good does it do?
> 
> ...


Right on, Buck. Exactly the reasons why we musn't spy on our exes. I did too, before, and it drove me mad.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm really torn on this spying question. All the points you make are valid about why not to do it but I guess i just had to know. It took me about 20 minutes to find everything I needed. Do I regret that, no? What I regret is when I went looking for more. The looking for more is what caused pain and does to this day. In fact, even now that it is out in the open I am devastated seeing things like greeting cards he as sent her and such. I don't go in her house anymore b/c it is toxic. This is a very hard decision but I would just insist that if you do it and find what you need, stop there.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if Buck merely wants to "let go" and sees his marriage as over then I agree spying is just going to drive him nutty

I do however recommend carrying a VAR on his person when he has contact with the wife, you just never know what lies or falsehoods they will try


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

sd212 said:


> This is a very hard decision but I would just insist that if you do it and find what you need, stop there.


I guess my point is there isn't anything I NEED to find. Our relationship is already over and I already know she had an EA that likely will turn physical if it hasn't already. Of course I'm very tempted at times to look, but I see nothing good that can come of it.

I KNOW I deserve better. The woman who is doing this to me is a complete stranger. She is NOT the woman I fell in love with and married. If she's just blinded and ends up trying to coming back, then we'll see what happens from there... but if this is the person she's truly become, then I don't want her around me anyways.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I guess my point is there isn't anything I NEED to find. Our relationship is already over and I already know she had an EA that likely will turn physical if it hasn't already. Of course I'm very tempted at times to look, but I see nothing good that can come of it.
> 
> I KNOW I deserve better. The woman who is doing this to me is a complete stranger. She is NOT the woman I fell in love with and married. If she's just blinded and ends up trying to coming back, then we'll see what happens from there... but if this is the person she's truly become, then I don't want her around me anyways.


Gotcha. I would say that you are much healthier than me. I wish I had been able to have your clarity on the situation. You see it for exactly what it is and should be proud of that.


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

Bucksinnc said:


> I guess my point is there isn't anything I NEED to find. Our relationship is already over and I already know she had an EA that likely will turn physical if it hasn't already. Of course I'm very tempted at times to look, but I see nothing good that can come of it.
> 
> I KNOW I deserve better. The woman who is doing this to me is a complete stranger. She is NOT the woman I fell in love with and married. If she's just blinded and ends up trying to coming back, then we'll see what happens from there... but if this is the person she's truly become, then I don't want her around me anyways.


Buck, im exactly where you are right now...and i agree totally with you 100%. Kudos to you man.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Stay strong Buck. You'll get through this. We're all rooting for you.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I'd like to get on here and say you guys have no idea how helpful you are, but I suppose you do since most of you have been through or are currently going through similar.

Tonight has been... odd. Since Saturday afternoon before I went out I've seen her maybe an hour TOTAL. It's going on two hours that I've been around her tonight. I'm staying strong and not really talking to her other than things related to the kids.

While I still regret blowing up Saturday night, I can say she seems to be far more respectful with her texting than she was on Saturday and she seems to be taking care of more of her crap around the house. So maybe it wasn't such a bad thing after all.

I saw the MC again today. I felt like my crying was about over, but boy did he prove me wrong, lol. It definitely felt good to get some more of that out of my system. He recommended that if she started her text-a-thon again tonight that I strongly consider telling her if she was going to just sit around texting him while I'm around that she should just "get the **** out" (his exact words) and go stay at her mom's. I was all revved up to have that conversation, but it didn't come to that... yet. He also told me that while I may have gone a bit overboard Saturday night with the yelling (ONLY because I woke up one of the kids), that he thought it was a very good thing that I got those feelings out there.

I'll check in later on tonight if needed. Otherwise, I'll see you all tomorrow!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I agree with your therapist
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

I agree with CSS, sounds like you have a good counselor. Hang in there Buck.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

:iagree:

kick her *** to the curb.


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Bucks,


I would do it along the lines like this;

Excuse me. *I dont know who you are*, but you are not *my wife*. My wife, would never, ever, never ever text another man in her own home, that tantamounts to her committing adultery. My wife would never commit an irreperable damage to our family, by continually communicating to a stranger. So please, I dont know who you are; but for my sake, my children - and my wife...

Please leave my family's house.


I said the exact same thing to my STBXW...what this does is it clearly demonstrates your ability to slice up your real wife, to the one that is infront of you living in the "Fog". If you slice this person and seperate this person - it shows them;

1. You are in control
2. You love your wife, the way she was previously
3. Your wife would never ever desecrate the marriage.

That's what I did - only time will tell if I was right...

But my advice, take it with a grain of salt, I aint an expert.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

CantSitStill said:


> I agree with your therapist
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

So we had a very long conversation last night. Throughout the entire thing I showed no emotion, was very firm/strong in my responses.

The conversation started with the kids and plans for the next few days. It then went into getting more structure involving when it's acceptable for the other person to be out, so there's no last minute, "I'm leaving, you watch the kids" or "I'm taking the kids now, goodbye".

We then went on to money. Talking about bills, her moving into her mother's house and how it will affect money (her mother lives a good distance away for daily commuting, adding quite a bit of money being thrown at gas), separate bank accounts, etc. This part of the conversation was lengthy and we definitely accomplished quite a bit.

Then we got deeper into my "blowup" from Saturday. She said she learned a lot about how I truly felt from that conversation. I told her I regretting it waking up our son, but that I didn't say anything I didn't mean. I told her I was angry that she sat on her ass texting him all day Saturday and that I will NOT allow it to happen again. I told her I don't know who she is anymore, that she is NOT the wonderful person I married. I told her that she was being extremely selfish in all of her actions lately.

Throughout the entire conversation she was getting more and more upset, crying a bit more as it went on. I remained completely calm, and continued to talk very firmly.

She cried quietly for a couple minutes, eventually starting to talk and stopping before anything came out. I told her to just say it and she said, "I don't know if I want to hear the answer". I told her to just come out with it. Eventually she told me she felt awful about how she went about things, that she had been talking to her mom for a long time about leaving, but that she never meant for it to happen like it did. That she made a lot of mistakes in the end that she regrets. Then she threw in an, "I understand if you hate me". I responded firmly, telling her I do not hate her, but I have lost almost all respect for her. I told her that she took an easy out vs. trying to work on the marriage, she made all the decisions involving US on her own, and as a result I think much less of her.

She said that hearing that makes it hard to stay in the house. I told her I wasn't stopping her from leaving.

She then asked how much my mom and a couple other people knew. Because "she didn't think it was everyone's business". I told her I didn't hold back telling anyone close to me anything. I told her they deserved to know the truth, and they DO know the truth. I could see/feel the guilt she was going through. The knowledge that people she will still have to constantly see (my mom works for Target, one of my best friends works for Target, and both work in the same store as her mom and step-dad, which is also the closest store to our house) know what really happened seemed to hurt her quite a bit (and I say, GOOD!).

Afterward the conversation shifted to me. She mentioned how she could see my focus in making a great home for the kids and how I was trying to be a better person. I told her I refused to let her actions drag me down. I told her I was done worrying about her.

I went to bed (yes, to bed, she got the couch) and left her there crying. I had a good night's sleep and woke up feeling pretty refreshed.

I must say, it felt DAMN GOOD to have that conversation with her. A week ago I would have NEVER had the strength to complete that conversation, to share all those feelings, and to do it without even the slightest bit of weakness. I never wavered, never cried, I felt very strong throughout and I feel that the air has certainly been cleared. I feel like I established myself as the dominant one in this house, that decisions from now on run through ME.

I truly can feel the 180 working. Every moment I'm caring less and less about what she thinks/does or has done. It's all about ME and my kids. I WILL get through this. I know the struggle is not over, but the tide is turning.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm starting to think her new Mr Wonderful isn't as wonderful as she previously thought and she is coming out of the fog a bit


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Good on you, Buck! I had a similar conversation with my H two years ago during our separation. From this moment on, I can't promise you it will be easy--there will still be bad days--but you have definitely made the first bold step in recovery. You stood up for yourself. You defended your dignity.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Good for you is right! Seems like you really had a major shift internally. Dang good for you. 

Prepare for the possibility of her to get cold and harsh. From the moment I had this type of event w/ my stbxw, she has turned into an ice queen and hates my guts. Outwardly anyway.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Sounds like you're doing really well, especially considering how early it is in all this. Don't be too surprised though if you start to feel really sad and overwhelmed again. It tends to be a bit of a roller coaster ride at first. Not trying to put a damper on things; I think you handled the conversation last night very well, but forewarned is forearmed.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, she definitely hasn't turned colder, if anything it's been a little of the opposite. It's kinda caught me off guard a bit and I had to remind myself a couple times today to stay the course.

I feel good right now, but I know for sure I'm not out of the woods or even close to it. In the back of my head I keep thinking this is going way too well way too fast for me and I'm a bit worried I'm going to fall on my face. Hopefully that's not the case.

I did get some potentially bad news today that broke me down some in front of her, but considering the circumstances I think it's more than understandable. My grandma called me today asking how things were with me and informed me she got a call this morning from her doctor, who she visited yesterday, telling her he needed to talk to her immediately. She's going back in at 1pm. I'm praying the news isn't too bad, but doctor's don't tell you to come in immediately without giving any more information unless it's some sort of bad news.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Buck. Please let us know what happens; hoping for the best.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

when it rains it pours

1 week post my Dday I had to do a 10 hour deposition


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Don't relent on the 180 Buck. You won a small victory, but the war is far from over. Like OldGirl said, you will be on a roller coaster ride, and there will be days you think you are losing the battle. Just stay focused and keep changing for the better.

I predict she will straighten up her act and want to reconcile, or she will move in with her mom and take her affair physical. If that happens, go completely 180 Dark. No contact except through lawyers. You can go through her mom for making arrangements for the kids. The idea will be then to completely disengage from her physically and emotionally.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

A bit of good news, which is always welcome: Grandma is OK, she (and I) understandably was a bit upset that he made it sound like something awful was happening, but everything is alright.

Today continues with her here. There are certainly plenty of awkward moments, but overall it hasn't been bad. We did some yard work today while the kids played outside, now she's reading a book in the kid's playroom while they play and I'm getting a little work done.

A couple more hours until dinner, followed by a little time with the kids, then putting them to bed and heading out for a bit. Once again looking forward to getting out of the house for awhile.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Very happy about your good news; what a relief. Enjoy your evening out.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Have fun. Stay out until 6 or 7 a.m., even if you have to sleep in your car. Come home with a whistle and a smile. It will drive her bonkers. I guarantee she'll call you to find out where you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Im happy for your good news buck. 

I agree with bandit, spend all night away from home, especially right after your last speech.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Have fun. Stay out until 6 or 7 a.m., even if you have to sleep in your car. Come home with a whistle and a smile. It will drive her bonkers. I guarantee she'll call you to find out where you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol:

If I do that she'll be two hours late for work. (Despite her lies in the past month, she really does have to work at 5am or a little earlier most days)

I MIGHT try that one day when she's actually off the next day. To be honest though, I feel more and more like I don't really care if she ever wants to come back to me and as a result don't really care if she's wondering what I'm up to (not that I'll be volunteering any information). I'm not shutting the door on the possibility of us being together again, but it seems like I'm quickly finding out I'll be just fine without her.

It's still shocking to me that not too long ago I thought everything was going well in our marriage and here I am three weeks later saying I'll be fine without her. It truly is a great feeling finding out I have this kind of strength inside of me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It would be an interesting experiment to help you judge where she is at mentally. Remember, cheaters like her are in a fog, but occasionally they can be shocked into brief moments of clarity. I'm just saying it would be an educational experiment to see if she even notices. If she acts like she doesn't care, then you will know where she stands and you can then move onto the next level of detachment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Bandit,

So you are subscribing to the theory of jealousy? Like a little payback's a b*tch? Does it work?


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, I had a moment of weakness last night. End result: I know something I assumed.

Her "relationship" has gone physical, and while the exact words aren't there, it looks like on Monday they had sex for the first time. In the e-mail she made mention of them kissing before Monday, but it's unclear if that was before or after we were done (they did go out to the bar the night after we said it was over, she claimed it was just with the other manager from work, but I already knew that was a lie).

I decided to look into phone records after that to see if they talked last night, I wanted to see if she was paying any attention to our kids after I left. I left before the kids went to bed (we had to go pick our car up from the shop, so I left from there, around 6:15), which was her idea, and frankly seemed like a good one at the time. She called him at 6:17 and talked to him for 95 minutes straight. This morning I asked my older son what they did last night, "Mommy talked on the phone a really long time and we played games." I asked if it made him sad that she was on the phone so long, "I don't know, Isaiah (my 3 year old) was sad." So I asked Isaiah if he was sad because mommy was on the phone a long time, "Mmm hmm... I want (he doesn't use past tense properly yet, so no -ed) to talk to mommy."

Tonight we're talking and the wheels will be in motion for her to move to her mom's house. It's one thing for her to go out and sleep with this guy only a few days after our marriage ended, it's another thing for her to neglect our children because she's too selfish right now to think of anything/anyone but herself. I refuse to live under the same roof as this woman. I will finally be talking to an attorney to figure out my rights in case things take anymore of a turn for the worst.

Once again, you guys were right. It's amazing that these stories all follow virtually the same path.

Last night I didn't think I'd get to sleep. It took about an hour, but I did get some sleep, although I woke up pretty early. I'm angry. I sent her a text with the conversation the kids and I had this morning and I'm waiting to hear back (she typically doesn't have her phone on her at work, but she'll likely see it at some point this morning).

Seriously... who the hell is this woman?! It feels like I'm in some sort of crazy dream right now.

It's time for me to step up even more. I refuse to let this stranger drag me down. I refuse to let this stranger hurt my children.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ask her why she couldn't wait until she actually moved out before she had sex with the POSOM

Wow what a selfish awful woman
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry Buck. I'm glad you're seeing an attorney; you need to protect yourself and your children.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How does one become a liar suddenly? Whatever happens to minimum decency. She couldn't even wait until the marriage ended or at least you were living in separate places ? So much for married for 8 years. Whatever it is, she does not have one speck of respect for you. That is obvious. She was texting him, she is having sex with him while still living with you.


This is how amicable divorces turn to bitter divorces I guess.

So are you going to confront her about the sex too?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Take care of your emotions though. You don't want to explode or get too aggressive on her. It might affect the custody.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Buck, if you get a chance read Traggy's story. His wife was having PA while staying in the same house and after a few weeks she is moving out amicable.

Do her parents know of her actions? Exposing the affair to her friends/family/coworker's might be the last shot to stop it until you two are seperate.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Kick her butt out. No waiting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Better yet pack her bags and have them waiting for her at the front door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

When they are in an affair nothing else matters to them. Not their spouse. Not their kids. Not even their self respect. You need to protect yourself and your children from her right now. She needs to be removed both physically and mentally from the equation until she starts acting like a responsible person and mother.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

I've contacted an attorney and will have a consultation early next week.

Holy **** has my life ever been turned upside down.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get on the horn with her mom and tell her your wife is staying with her starting tonight. Tell everyone what a cheating liar she is. Expose, expose, expose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Breathe, it's just a consultation and the lawyer will tell you your options, you may feel alot better after the consultation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Buck, does your family/friends/coworkers know the truth?


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes, all the people close to me know the truth. I know people keep telling me to expose her, but I still just don't see the point. I don't care if those people know and I don't care if she ever "comes around". I'm truly sick of being around her and all I want right now is for her to be gone so I can move on with my life.

So we had a conversation earlier tonight where I told her I could no longer live under the same roof as her. I also told her if I heard from my kids again that she spent her night on the phone with him while she was supposed to be paying attention to her children that there would be problems. When we parted ways last week we agreed that no one enters their lives unless we've been with that person a long time and ONLY after the other parent signs off on it. My kids hearing an hour and a half of conversation between them, hearing **** like, "I miss you", etc. is a violation of that agreement. Kids aren't stupid and they will certainly pick up on things from those conversations. She agreed, but I'm not sure if she understood or if she was trying to avoid conflict.

We will be working on details like time with kids and financials either tomorrow afternoon or Sunday. Either way, starting tomorrow night, she is staying at her mom's house... well, I guess I should say, she won't be staying here.

It's going to be TOUGH to wake up knowing she will no longer be under the same roof. I know it will be a reality check for me and will show me where I truly stand emotionally. Especially knowing that from what I can gather she'll be staying at HIS house Sunday night (she said she's dropping the kids off Sunday afternoon and going "out"). In the end, I know her being gone is what has to happen and I know it is the best way for me to move forward with my life.

The same thought keeps going through my head over and over, so I keep repeating it on here... wow, what a difference a month makes. I can't believe how quickly my life has changed.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

have you asked her about the no sex until divorce part(without revealing the snooping part). It would have been interesting seeing her react to it.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Yes, there is a point where you get so sick of them you just want them to vanish. But when they're gone it still hits you. Keep walking, Buck. Keep deciding to cut the cords from her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Keep moving forward Buck. She's lost and you need to concentrate on you and your health and well being. Maybe one day she'll acknowledge the pain she has caused you, but don't hold your breath. Your wife is dead... a corpse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Especially knowing that from what I can gather she'll be staying at HIS house Sunday night (she said she's dropping the kids off Sunday afternoon and going "out").
> .


With the success rate of affairs she'd be dumped by OM in no time, it will suck to be her but that's her problem. In the mean time make sure to prevent any ill behavior from her towards the kids, especially if she starts opening up to multiple men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Buck,

Mate, just take the kids out to movies, take them out to dinners. Right now, you have to be both the Mum and Dad of the family. Rest assurred, you have to control the home. The children and you need that home, so dont let that go, you have to let her go

Cheers
D


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Listen to Dalvin, he knows firsthand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

What a lonely feeling walking into the house was tonight.

She has the kids for the evening. Walking in knowing there were no kids, knowing she wasn't here... wow, I can't remember the last time I had such a feeling of emptiness. This house is far too big to feel so empty.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Hang in there..still been prayin for ya, I know this is a huge life change, been thinking alot today how I almost broke up our family..it kills me because my husband is a wonderful husband and father and at the time I left my kids knew why and hated me for it..I am so darn thankful for this last chance he has given me..I just can't stay away from him..I keep grabbing him and holding on to him tightly. I hope that your wife comes to the same conclusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get out of the house and get around other people. Don't stay home and mope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

Buck, i remember that feeling....i hated coming home to an empty house and the loneliness was unbearable.

For me it felt like it was either flood or famine...the days when i have the kids i usually felt so overwhelmed because it was so exhausting looking after them by myself, and then the days when my H have the kids i will come home to an empty house, it felt so dead...no kids noises, no children's laughing or crying, no chattering during dinner, absolutely NOTHING.

Those days when i have to come home to an empty house used to break me....and then after a while i started to get used to my own company as i look for more ways to look after myself.

I would put relaxing music in the house for background noise then I run myself a long bath with a glass of bubbly and chocolates and just relax and take my time to pamper myself.

You will learn to enjoy your own company...when you dont feel like staying home make sure you fill those days (when you dont have the kids) with catch-up meetings with friends, meet for coffee or just hanging out with your mates.....it would do you good.

Hope things will get better for you Buck....im in the same situation as my H is right in the middle of his thick fog and no sign of waking up from it.

So hang in there....we will get thru this!


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Had a very rough day today without the kids. Once they got here it was a little better, but even dinner at my mom's with the kids couldn't keep my mind off of things. Knowing she dropped the kids off to spend the evening with "him" is hard to handle.

On the bright side, knowing I'll have the kids the next few days certainly should help ease the feelings of an empty home.

All that said, I am feeling better tonight. Not great, but certainly better. I'm watching a little TV and managing to laugh at it (I love That '70's Show, lol), which feels pretty good.


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Buck,


Keep at the 180. Don’t waver. 
As far as thinking what your wife is doing, DON’T. You got to have the mental edge over yourself to be able to push through this. Only now (I've been doing a 180 for 7 weeks) is it really paying dividends. Basically I have focused on myself, whenever I get the chance. As a single parent, you never ever get a chance to look after yourself, but you have to put kids first right.

Well, when your wife is out with the kids - then you start looking after yourself.

I liken it to the oxygen mask on an airplane analogy. Whereby, in emergency situations, we are all told as adults that in the event of an emergency, we have to put the masks on for ourselves first, then the children. Well in our situation, we really, really, really have to look after ourselves first, then children. (I know that's against our parenting philosphies, but hear me out). Our children depend on us to be very strong and secure within ourselves. If we are not, then they really suffer. So Buck, whenever you get a chance to be by yourself, then its time to put the oxygen mask on and look after you. That means maybe the following;

1. Exercise / Take up boxing 
2. Look after your self lookswise (Haircut, clean out wardrobe)
3. Clean the house, learn how to cook better meals for the kids

Trust me, the mental edge is something you need to get in your life, as you will find that most Betrayed Spouses, end up in a better state than their Waywards in the long run. Your marathon journey has to happen now, 

So whenever you have a rough day, Make it a day for "You" - do things you want to do.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Amen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I am not sure if this is good advice, but if you are into it, go have some meaningless casual sex. It will help you take mind off your wife's infidelity and restore any self esteem hits that you might have taken. It will alos send a clear message to your WS(Whatever it might be). People here will ask you to wait until divorce finalizes, but they are just logistics.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> I am not sure if this is good advice, but if you are into it, go have some meaningless casual sex. It will help you take mind off your wife's infidelity and restore any self esteem hits that you might have taken. It will alos send a clear message to your WS(Whatever it might be). People here will ask you to wait until *divorce finalizes*, but they are just logistics.


Their marriage never went through, so technically he's single. 


But seriously you should wait until you live in seperate house's. Is she she sleeping with OM or just hanging out?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is sleeping with him. Hence my advice for meaningless casual sex


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Warlock, et al,


I'm not about to pass judgement etc, but as a Single parent, the least of my worries would be the opposite sex and getting meaningless sex. I just think that it complicates life if people did decide to go down that path. For mine, I'd rather just put myself and my kids first by getting through this, and building a better life with the family together. As a single parent, life is complicated enough as it is...I mean you lunches to make, school homework to help out, toilet training, and emotionally you have to be there for your son/s and daughter/s for their questions such as;

Dad, where is Mum?
Dad, I see you upset, why?
Dad, can we go and see Mum?


Hard questions like the above - are things Single parents need to prepare themselves with. If you are not prepared, you are not a parent.

Cheers
D

I dont want to be harsh on my judgement, and not dissing your advice. I just come from my background of being left alone/abandoned by my STBXW and my kids are with me.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Those questions sure are tough to hear from the kids, but they've certainly gotten easier to answer as the last couple weeks have gone on.

I know the focus needs to be on myself, but with her just moving out as of Saturday I'm struggling with the reality of it all right now. I can say for certain I woke up feeling better today than yesterday, but it's still a long road ahead. I have a good bit going on today and tomorrow, so I'm hoping that will help get my mind focused on things other than her.

Keko, we are in separate houses now. She moved into her mom's house this weekend. There's still plenty of her stuff to remove, but she is no longer here.

I have no desire for meaningless sex. The idea of even dating right now doesn't really appeal to me, let alone finding some girl to just have sex with and move on.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Buck 

Glad to hear that you're doing well. It must be so overwhelming; so many things have changed for you and your boys so quickly. It's a good thing that you're there for them; a constant in a sea of change.
Also glad to hear that you'll be busy the next couple of days. You have your appointment with an attorney this week, right?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

dalvin_au said:


> Warlock, et al,
> 
> 
> I'm not about to pass judgement etc, but as a Single parent, the least of my worries would be the opposite sex and getting meaningless sex. I just think that it complicates life if people did decide to go down that path. For mine, I'd rather just put myself and my kids first by getting through this, and building a better life with the family together. As a single parent, life is complicated enough as it is...I mean you lunches to make, school homework to help out, toilet training, and emotionally you have to be there for your son/s and daughter/s for their questions such as;
> ...



He gets his off time, right? Unless he is obsessed with having sex, wouldn't it be alright? Isn't it just like any other personal time he gets. I am trying to understand.


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> He gets his off time, right? Unless he is obsessed with having sex, wouldn't it be alright? Isn't it just like any other personal time he gets. I am trying to understand.


I don't see where meaningless sex figures into growing, learning, and loving and taking care of yourself. Everything we do at a point such as this in our life must be done thoughtfully and have a positive impact on our character, whether short-term (treating yourself to a nice dinner or getting a haircut) or long-term (working out, attending support/prayer groups, pursuing your passions and interests, etc). 

However, I am not one to pass judgment if others want to have meaningless sex. Free will, right? I'm just saying I would be spending my precious energy elsewhere.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are absolutely right. I was just saying that it might work for some people.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> Buck
> 
> Glad to hear that you're doing well. It must be so overwhelming; so many things have changed for you and your boys so quickly. It's a good thing that you're there for them; a constant in a sea of change.
> Also glad to hear that you'll be busy the next couple of days. You have your appointment with an attorney this week, right?


Yeah, meeting with the attorney tomorrow. Unfortunately part of being busy today includes having to pick her up from work and potentially seeing her for a couple hours... had to get a taillight assembly put on one of the cars to get it inspected, so I picked it up around lunchtime from her work and need to get her when she's off. Hopefully the car will be done by then so I can just drop her off at the shop and be on my way. I made sure to warn her I was on the way, I have enough crap in my head right now, didn't need to see anything else in there to add to my misery.

Saw the MC again today, which helped get me a little more focused. Hoping to be able to use some of his ideas this week to help me get through the week a little better.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> Yeah, meeting with the attorney tomorrow. Unfortunately part of being busy today includes having to pick her up from work and potentially seeing her for a couple hours... had to get a taillight assembly put on one of the cars to get it inspected, so I picked it up around lunchtime from her work and need to get her when she's off. Hopefully the car will be done by then so I can just drop her off at the shop and be on my way. I made sure to warn her I was on the way, I have enough crap in my head right now, didn't need to see anything else in there to add to my misery.
> 
> Saw the MC again today, which helped get me a little more focused. Hoping to be able to use some of his ideas this week to help me get through the week a little better.


Keep your conversation with her to a minimum. Stay on the 180, don't engage.


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

Spent about an hour and a half with her this evening while we waited for the car to get done. I pretty much let her have some time with the kids for the hour we were at the house.

There was little conversation except her mentioning she'd like to take the kids tomorrow night if at all possible, she'll be off around 5:30, so I'm only really going to miss out on about three hours with them. I told her it was fine (would like to have dinner with my friends, it was supposed to turn into an every Tuesday thing, but with her moving out that was stopped pretty quick) as long as she had someone to take the kids to school on Wednesday morning. For the first time in a few days I felt strong talking to her and I feel just fine now that she's gone.

It was kinda nice to see that she's not forgotten about the kids. I was a little worried that she'd make no extra effort to see them other than her days off... and while I'd enjoy the extra time with them, I know it would be tough on them to be away from her for 4-5 days at a time.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Buck

I think it's great that she's seeing the kids too, but I don't understand the whole thing with picking up her car, getting the taillight fixed, giving her a ride. Why are you still helping her out with anything? She lost the right to have you playing a good and helpful husband. Let her figure out how she's going to handle these things by herself.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

OldGirl said:


> Buck
> 
> I think it's great that she's seeing the kids too, but I don't understand the whole thing with picking up her car, getting the taillight fixed, giving her a ride. Why are you still helping her out with anything? She lost the right to have you playing a good and helpful husband. Let her figure out how she's going to handle these things by herself.


Absolutely. She's banging another man and you're still doing chores for her. Tell her this is the last time. If she doesn't want you as a husband, you are not going to be her errand boy or taxi driver anymore. She lost that privelege. Let her fix her own car!


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

The car in question is my mom's old car (2005 Elantra, not that it really matters). We bought it from her last month with my ex's tax return, but hadn't transferred the title yet. If she got pulled over with the now expired tags (expired as of yesterday), the ticket would be my mom's and not hers.

It was taken care of at my mom's request so she didn't have to worry about it. The title will be transferred this week and then trust me, I will absolutely not be helping her with any future issues.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well....good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Bucky,

I wouldnt be a taxi. Its not right for you the Betrayed Spouse - she is still using you as a handbag. Stuff that. Let her walk if she has to.
OR better yet, buy yourself a new car and you drive that and she can drive the Elantra. That'll make your day.

Cheers
D


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

dalvin_au said:


> Bucky,
> 
> I wouldnt be a taxi. Its not right for you the Betrayed Spouse - she is still using you as a handbag. Stuff that. Let her walk if she has to.
> OR better yet, buy yourself a new car and you drive that and she can drive the Elantra. That'll make your day.
> ...


Oh, I got the new car. We recently picked up a 2010 HHR and that one stayed with me.


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## dalvin_au (Mar 19, 2012)

Good Stuff Bucky, you drive the new car - you go cruizin in that...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Buck,

Has she admitted to the affair going physical or are you just not going there? Have you exposed to her mother the extent of the affair or are you still playing the gentleman?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Buck,
> 
> Has she admitted to the affair going physical or are you just not going there? Have you exposed to her mother the extent of the affair or are you still playing the gentleman?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She knows that I know it's gone physical. Again, being done with her I don't really care if her mom or anyone else in her circle knows where it's gone at this point. I have enough proof that it wasn't physical while we were together, so I've left it at that.

Her mom at the very least knows she's been talking to this guy, but how much she knows beyond that I have no idea and honestly don't really care.

Well... off to take the kids to school and see the attorney.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Let us know how it goes.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I like your style Buck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She knows that I know it's gone physical.


How did she react?


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## chocolategeek (Mar 8, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> She knows that I know it's gone physical. Again, being done with her I don't really care if her mom or anyone else in her circle knows where it's gone at this point. I have enough proof that it wasn't physical while we were together, so I've left it at that.
> 
> Her mom at the very least knows she's been talking to this guy, but how much she knows beyond that I have no idea and honestly don't really care.
> 
> Well... off to take the kids to school and see the attorney.


That's great, Buck. You're indifferent, detached, apathetic. When the newness of her A wears off and they get into some hardcore quarreling, reality will be a cold douse of water on her face and she will miss you. Watch out when she starts becoming nice to you, asking how you are, etc.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

dalvin_au said:


> Good Stuff Bucky, you drive the new car - you go cruizin in that...



but it's a Chevy....




(KIDDING)


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

The consultation went well, I learned a lot and now have a clear vision of how to go forward.

In the next week or so I will be getting some paperwork together. I will be correcting the issue of our marriage contract and we will be entering a legal separation. The attorney told me it's just so we can put together a separation agreement, nothing else changes or is legally required to change. It's completely for covering my butt, which I fully intend to do.

It was good to talk to her. I know where I stand, I know where I need to head, and I know what rights I have if things go south. I found out I'm actually in a very good position if things do indeed go south, and that was very comforting to hear.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get the separation filed as quickly as you can to protect your credit. Don't tell wifey you are doing so, or she might go out and try to get a couple of credit cards in the interim.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Buck let her know you do not want your kids anywhere near the OM. Also as for legal separation..waste of money really because it expires in 6 months,, I'd do the divorcr and save a few bucks if that's your long term plan anyway. Again I think you are doing a great job dealing with all of this. So sorry that you have all this crap to deal with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Buck let her know you do not want your kids anywhere near the OM. Also as for legal separation..waste of money really because it expires in 6 months,, I'd do the divorcr and save a few bucks if that's your long term plan anyway. Again I think you are doing a great job dealing with all of this. So sorry that you have all this crap to deal with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's been made more than clear that they're to be nowhere near him. This includes her even being on the phone with him in the same room as the kids. 

Luckily I don't have to worry too much about it happening, since my five year old would tell me if it did.


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## profos (Apr 19, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> It's been made more than clear that they're to be nowhere near him. This includes her even being on the phone with him in the same room as the kids.
> 
> Luckily I don't have to worry too much about it happening, since my five year old would tell me if it did.


Until they decide to do whatever they want regardless of what you "make clear to them".


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

profos said:


> Until they decide to do whatever they want regardless of what you "make clear to them".


She can feel free to, if she doesn't want to see the kids anymore. I will protect my kids at any cost.

I got enough information from the attorney to know that her just going ahead and making him part of their lives right now would be a huge mistake on her end.


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## profos (Apr 19, 2012)

Bucksinnc said:


> I got enough information from the attorney to know that her just going ahead and making him part of their lives right now would be a huge mistake on her end.


Not sure why. 

She's allowed to have a boyfriend or at least talk to some guy once in a while on the phone in front of the kids.

Lots of divorcing couples enter new relationships and the kids become integrated into the new blended families. Whether it happens immediately, after a few months, or a few years is not the court's concern.

Unless she's abusing them or neglecting them there's not a thing you can do about it, in fact courts routinely give custody to an abusive or neglectful parent with decisions that defy logic and common sense. Any attorney that tells you otherwise is not giving you good advice.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

All I know is when I had my EA I left and went to my sisters..When I talked to a lawyer he said hubby will get both the house and the kids because I left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bucksinnc (Mar 29, 2012)

profos said:


> Not sure why.


I'll go ahead and take the advice of the family law attorney over yours. I'm betting she has a bit more experience with it than you do.

If you have anything else to say on the subject, feel free to keep it to yourself. It's not productive at all to this thread.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Bucksinnc said:


> I'll go ahead and take the advice of the family law attorney over yours. I'm betting she has a bit more experience with it than you do.
> 
> If you have anything else to say on the subject, feel free to keep it to yourself. It's not productive at all to this thread.


I think he is not attacking you. The divorce courts aren't always fair to the man even if you are in the right


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Hey Buck, how are you doing, emotionally/legally? How are your boys?


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## profos (Apr 19, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> All I know is when I had my EA I left and went to my sisters..When I talked to a lawyer he said hubby will get both the house and the kids because I left.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's totally not true. Just because you might have taken off for a while and gone to stay with a relative does not make you an unfit or neglectful parent and it certainly has no bearing on you getting your share of the value of the equity in the house.

In addition, you and your hubby both post here, so you know you hubby will read that.

I have to wonder why you posted it?


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