# Husband hates me 6 mos after I cheated..



## veebras

I dont know where to begin. I am sitting here somewhat confused which is why I am online lookiong for the "answer"..Lol 
So, I cheated on my husband abt 6 mos ago - he found out by going to paste something that he thought he had copied on the PC, but ended up pasting an entire message I had wrote to the person I was having an affair with. Great. Here's where the good and bad began...
Good because that guy I was having an affair with was a mistake. completely. And bad obviously due to my husband finding this out in a worst possible way while I was at work..
So, we hashed it out majorly, some pretty rough, turbulant times going over the occurance(s) and why and how, and how horrible I am/was/etc. The grief, the guilt, the pain, the loss of the things I was doing which obv caused some enjoyment or I wouldnt have been doing it in the first place..
And my Hb decided to stay with me and that we would work on things. And we have been doing so for 6 mos... However, this is the problem. He cannot forgive me. 
We can have a great day, or a great week, or we can be just okay and getting along and then....suddenly, out of th eblue in my opinion, he's depressed, which causes or turns into anger, and he's lashing out at me, or snod remarks etc. When all I have been doing is being me, living our life, working, being mom, etc, meanign I havent done anything wrong that day he lashes out on me, or even that week, etc. I just dont think it is fair that if he chose to stay in this relationship and if I am not doing anythign wrong, I am being honest and a good wife and mom, I dont think it's fair that he can just be mean over something that happened 6 mos ago that I cannot erase! I can never take it back, we can only move forward or really on be in today. I have tried to explain this to him numerous times, but never really listens or understands, he only sees his POV and starts yelling and guess what.. leaves. He's gone for good he says tonight, and I honestly think he means it this time. I am sad. I wish he would have left initially almost. I wish he could see that I have changed and the good that I am doing.. But anytime I want to see a girlfriend even with my kids with me, he is not okay with that. He has become CONTROLLING beyond belief, now we are divorcing because I went to my best friend's 7 yr. old son's basketball game and to her home for a few hours on his oof day. Because I intentionally did that to hurt him he says, because I knew he needed me as he is depressed, and needed me.. I';m sorry but I would like to continue somewhat of a social life outside our marriage and maybe have at least one friend!?
He is a chef and works 14 hrs a day typically and we are opposite schedules, I think all the problems stem from this. I am a FT worker, and mom the rest of the evening, and maid, then at 11:30 at night when he gets home I am expected to be a fabulous wife too, when do I ever get me time to be me and be relaxed..? Ugh sorry


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## veebras

I guess what I wanted to ask.. is.... can this ever be mended? He seems to not understand where I am coming from, only sees that I dont love him, which in turn everytime he says that to me or asks for more affection (when we are fighting) it makes me think that he doesnt really love me for who I am, he wants me to change or to act or be someone that I am not being currently, which is me!? So I think he doesnt love me, we are a mess... We cant communicate effectively at all. We twend to only see our own perspective, me too I guess..But I understand he is hurt, I just cant erase what happened - All I can do is be respectful and honest and not lie going forward and thats what Im doing but it is not enough...?!


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## the guy

Some times your H needs a friend more then a friend needs you at a basketbal game. 
Ask your self what you would need if the role were reversed?

Close your eye and imagine your H is sleeping with another women, he is between her legs satisfing her and then open your eyes and go give him a kiss with this thought still in your mind!


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## veebras

Thanks, and that is the case.. 
But, you dont know the whole situa of course. 
I need a friend too, and my friend and I only see each other like 2x per month, and tonight Hb tells me I choose my friend over him anytime..Nope. I am with Hb literally every day he is off (which are my workdays) so only for about 5 hours those days.. But he is off 2 days per week, and I see my friend like 2 x a month.. WTF..
Had it planned all week, and he knew it then blew up as soon as I was about to leave.. A reason to end this? I dont know why... 
Jealousy, fear, all kinds of things probably. I am tired of walking on egg shells if I want to do anything. It's the main problem, he feels like if I go anywhere on his off day that means I dont love him. I feel trapped and suffocated! I do love him. ****. I invited him to come, would have been nice, but nopppe.


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## aug

The straightforward simple answer is this. Once a spouse cheated in the marriage, the marriage is never going to be the same again. The innocence is gone. The trust is gone. The fidelity no longer exists.

Your husband is processing the change. He will continue to process the betrayal. His pain will lessen with time (may take years), but the memory lives forever.


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## veebras

Thank you aug. I understand that. I personally, if my Hb had cheated on me most likely would have caleld it quits straight away as I knwo that I would always have doubts and not strong enough to handle that. But he chose to stay and to work things out, and now I guess is realizing even though he has tried he simply cant.

I talked to him today and stated pretty much what you said, that our relationship will NEVER be the same, it cant be unfortunatly, but that that does not mean that is still cant be good, or even great. Just that he will never blindly trust me again most likely. I told him that this was okay and that I understood that, but that in order to move forward he must forgive. He cant keep bringing things up anytime a tv show or movie, etc triggers his emotions.. Well, I mean of course he should be able to bring it uo and talk about it as adults if it is bothering him.. Bue he cannot just lash out at me and claim depressed, unhealthy, and not resolving anything, also hurting the relationship further!


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## tierzastarr

I'm going to lay this down for you. While you're at that basketball game, your h is at home wondering if you're actually there or if you lied to him to be with someone else.


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## Badblood

OP, do you ever think of his feelings and the horrible thing you did to him? Where , in all of your selfish rant , do you ever mention that you lied, cheated and disrespected him, in the worse possible way. If I was him , I would have kicked you out long ago. You are the one who cheated, you are the one to fix the marriage , if it is going to be fixed. You didn't make a mistake with the otherman, you chose to defile your marriage and hurt your husband. You chose to do it, remember that. What have you done to atone to him, what have you done to make restitution? You think only about your wants and needs, and he has to suck it up for your sake. See what is wrong with this?


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## tierzastarr

I think you should read this.
Coping with Infidelity: Resentment (Part 4)

This should be for both you and him.
May I ask how long the affair was going on?
And If you have told him the whole truth?


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## veebras

That is exactly what he is doing, he said how can he know if I am really there.. Well, first of akk our 7 yr old daughter's with me!? And besides how long do I have to endure not being able to go anywhere without getting threatened by divorce, or told I dont love him? I find it somewhat rediculous, yes I doid horribly wrong. But for how long do I suffer, I mean, do you really think it is okay to freak out about something whenever you want just because something bad happened to you in your past!? No.
And who wants to be with someone who has no friends and no life besides work?!


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## Badblood

This OP is totally selfish and has come here to justify herself. She has NOT come here to try to reconcile, but to blame her husband for all of her problems, when she is the one who caused them all.


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## Badblood

How about your husband's suffering?


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## veebras

Thank you Tierzastarr.. I read that site.. and this is how I feel my Hb is being:

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse 

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument. 

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her. 

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive. 

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!" 

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all." 

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love." 

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him. 

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment. 

Other considerations


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## tierzastarr

It take 2 to 5 years to heal from an affair. The worse it is or the longer it takes you to tell the truth, the longer time to heal. You're only 6 months out. That's not alot of time to heal. Maybe if you tell your whole story I can help you a bit more.


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## the guy

Your on to something, I have taken a big step forwrd and have fogiven my fWW. I hope someday your H can figure out the true meaning of forgiveness, clearly he is not there yet.
What sucks is this great understanding of forgiveness is something done on an idividual level. No one can make someone forgive them, they have to do it on there own.

I hope your H looks in to the whole idea of forgiveness and understand it....he will be better off served, and so will your marriage.

How many time did you call him when you were at the game?

what helps for me is the constant call i get from fWW. these call are short and to the point "just thinking about you hubby and I'll be home soon" or Just got to the game, I'm OK see you soon".

It realy helps me, my W calls me all the time jsut to check in...its nice to know she's thinking about me and makes the effort to acknowledge my concerns.


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## tierzastarr

I didn't mean for you to just take in what your h shouldn't be doing. I meant for you to understand how he feels.


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## Badblood

Veebras, If you don't start thinking about other people's feelings, you will end up alone. No friends, no husband, no family, because nobody wants to be around a person who thinks only of herself.


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## EleGirl

You cannot expect your husband to just forget, forgive and move on, not in 6 months. It takes years for the betrayed spouse to recover from an affair. I know that as the wayward spouse (WS) you do not get this, but it is reality.

When I found out about my husband’s affair it threw me into a horrible deep depression. I could not go to work the first couple of weeks after that. For months afterwards I could not concentraite at work. I would just sit at my computer all day as stare. The emotional pain was horrible. After a while I became so non-functional that I had to get on anti-depressants. And even with that I’d say it two 2-3 years before I started to feel like myself again.

My father’s death did not cause me as much pain and I was only 21 when he died.

The still birth of my twins was on the same level as the emotional shock of the divorce. But there is a major difference. The death of the twins was an act of nature. The affair on the other hand was a malicious, purposeful act by the person who had promised to love and care for me. To know that he could do that to me was a shock to my very being. 

The way you describe your husband he might need anti-depressents for a while. 

What have you done to help your husband feel safe now?

What are the two of you doing to repair your marriage?

There are some books I suggest, they are my Dr. Harley, “Surviving an Affair”, “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. If you both follow what those books talk about, you can repair and build a much stronger marriage.


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## tierzastarr

Badblood, I've read your story and I'm really sorry about what happened with you but maybe if we show some compassion and try to show the op how her h feels, we can help. Instead of snarking at her. * That's the only word I could come up with.


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## veebras

No... I do blame myself, I am the root of the cause and the problem. I am fully aware of that. It hurts and it sucks, it hurts him the most.
However, I feel that he has taken me down even further, and that I cannot be fully in love with him while he is treating me this way. 
I do love my Hb and he is a great man and father, I want to be married to him forever if we can just get past this but I am afraid that we may not be able to..
We are on a downward spiral and it doesnt end, only subsides, then resurfaces when his emotions are re-triggered. But then it doesnt become an adult, loving, or even caring talk, it becomes a fight and an "I'm leaving, done" when nothing new has happened, nothing wrong has been done again...?! Im just confused.!


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## tierzastarr

At least she's on her looking for help.


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## Badblood

When are you going to learn that an affair is NOT a mistake. It is a deliberate act of cruelty , disrespect, hate, and deceit. You say you love your husband, is this the way you show love?


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## tierzastarr

Maybe what'll help is when his emotions are triggered don't fight back. Tell him how much you love him. How sorry you are and you want to help. 

Is your friend a male? If he is you shouldn't be seeing him. I'm sorry to say


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## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> I didn't mean for you to just take in what your h shouldn't be doing. I meant for you to understand how he feels.


I know... I did read more into it, and have read alot on that site before, I appreciate it.
I just wanted to show a perfect perception of how I am feeling right now. To make that more understandable perhaps.


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## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> Maybe what'll help is when his emotions are triggered don't fight back. Tell him how much you love him. How sorry you are and you want to help. Is your friend a male?


I try not to fight back, and to go through the motions of what I have descrived in this thread and to tell him I understand but that we need to move forward, etc, I even agreed to counseling if he could set it up. 

The friend is my Bf, a female. Whom he hates because she knew abotu the affair,. So particularly, anytime I am with her he is not happy.


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## Badblood

tierzastarr said:


> Badblood, I've read your story and I'm really sorry about what happened with you but maybe if we show some compassion and try to show the op how her h feels, we can help. Instead of snarking at her. * That's the only word I could come up with.


 Until she realizes that she is the one to blame, no advice will help her. She pays lipservice to us, the goes right on ranting about her husbands faults. Then piously says she married her husband for life, give me a break, she really cares nothing for him.


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## veebras

Badblood said:


> When are you going to learn that an affair is NOT a mistake. It is a deliberate act of cruelty , disrespect, hate, and deceit. You say you love your husband, is this the way you show love?


Really... I shouldnt even comment, but.. Yes, I understand it was deliberate sorry that I was not precise enough to your liking in my wording. Obviously that is not the way you show love. Thanks for the fabulous input.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

It always amazes me how Waywards just expect things to go back to normal. 

Listen...6 months is nothing...NOTHING....when it comes to healing from infidelity.





Everything you have wrote above reeks of selfishness...allow me to quote:



*"However, this is the problem. He cannot forgive me."*

Ya think? Please...he is just now beginning to get the feeling back in his legs....geesh give the guy some real time for Christ sake.


*"We can have a great day, or a great week, or we can be just okay and getting along and then....suddenly, out of th eblue in my opinion, he's depressed, which causes or turns into anger, and he's lashing out at me, or snod remarks etc"*

Its not out of the blue...it's out of the pit-of-despair that's festering where his heart used to be. Oh..and really snod remarks? Anger? Lashing out? He is in real pain...real pain caused by you and your worried about snod remarks....please!


*"I just dont think it is fair that if he chose to stay in this relationship and if I am not doing anythign wrong, I am being honest and a good wife and mom, I dont think it's fair that he can just be mean over something that happened 6 mos ago that I cannot erase!"*

It's not fair...correct...it's entirely not fair to HIM. Ya so honey...I cheated on you...I know your whole life is going to be in turmoil now...I step all over you manhood and perhaps you will be a single father that sees his kids on the weekends when all is said and done. It's no big deal..I am being good now..I know it looks exactly the same as it did before when I was lying to you and sleeping with another guy...but for real i am being good...so just get over it...because it's not fair to me. PLEASE!


*"But anytime I want to see a girlfriend even with my kids with me, he is not okay with that. He has become CONTROLLING beyond belief..." *

Maybe because he thinks your girlfriend knew about the affair and didn't tell him, maybe he thinks she is a toxic enabler...or maybe he thinks you should be more concerned about him rather than you silly girlfriend. 


*"I'm sorry but I would like to continue somewhat of a social life outside our marriage and maybe have at least one friend!?"*

Wow! So you cheat on your husband, crush him...he is laying on the floor in a pile of his own guts...just crying out to be taken seriously and you want a social life...nice.


*"I am a FT worker, and mom the rest of the evening, and maid, then at 11:30 at night when he gets home I am expected to be a fabulous wife too, when do I ever get me time to be me and be relaxed..? Ugh sorry"*

You are not a fabulous wife...that's for sure. No your not sorry. I detect not one shred of empathy for what you have put your husband through.



Listen..you haven't even begun to do any of the heavy work involved with reconciliation. If you and your husband are ever going to have a shot... you...yes you are going to have to get over how important you think you are.


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## tierzastarr

Badblood, I know she needs to understand, but snapping at her isn't going to help. It's just going to put her on the defensive or she's going to end up leaving the forum.


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## tierzastarr

I'm going to put on some links, op that I think you need to read.


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## veebras

EleGirl said:


> You cannot expect your husband to just forget, forgive and move on, not in 6 months. It takes years for the betrayed spouse to recover from an affair. I know that as the wayward spouse (WS) you do not get this, but it is reality.
> 
> When I found out about my husband’s affair it threw me into a horrible deep depression. I could not go to work the first couple of weeks after that. For months afterwards I could not concentraite at work. I would just sit at my computer all day as stare. The emotional pain was horrible. After a while I became so non-functional that I had to get on anti-depressants. And even with that I’d say it two 2-3 years before I started to feel like myself again.
> 
> My father’s death did not cause me as much pain and I was only 21 when he died.
> 
> The still birth of my twins was on the same level as the emotional shock of the divorce. But there is a major difference. The death of the twins was an act of nature. The affair on the other hand was a malicious, purposeful act by the person who had promised to love and care for me. To know that he could do that to me was a shock to my very being.
> 
> The way you describe your husband he might need anti-depressents for a while.
> 
> What have you done to help your husband feel safe now?
> 
> What are the two of you doing to repair your marriage?
> 
> There are some books I suggest, they are my Dr. Harley, “Surviving an Affair”, “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. If you both follow what those books talk about, you can repair and build a much stronger marriage.


Thank you for sharing your information. BTW I love Love Busters, very informative and helpful. I need to read more on their site. 
He does need anti-depressants IMO. He is very depressed lately, for months almost, here and there. 

How do I help him feel safe.. Well, I am not very good at this maybe. I feel like me staying home most of the time, most always, and that me letting him know times I will be home if I do go somewhere and sticking to that time, and if running behind to let him know, etc. Always answering him when he calls, etc. 

We arent currently doing anything to repair our marriage. We went to counseling separately months ago, and together prior to that (prior to the affair) for other reasons..but currently a BIG NOTHING, I did agree today to go though if that is what he wants. But now he is gone, and sounds very serious about this being the end, very hateful and just done.. dear....


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## EleGirl

veebras said:


> I try not to fight back, and to go through the motions of what I have descrived in this thread and to tell him I understand but that we need to move forward, etc, I even agreed to counseling if he could set it up.
> 
> *The friend is my Bf, a female. Whom he hates because she knew abotu the affair,*. So particularly, anytime I am with her he is not happy.


So this friend of your knew about the affair? Did how long did she know? Did she know the guy you cheated with? Did she ever do things with you and the OM?

No wonder your husband does not feel safe when you visit her. He knows that she is no friend of his. IMHO, you need to drop her as a friend to show respect to your husband.


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## the guy

v-
I just re read your org post, and I keep seeing "he choose to stay" It concerns me b/c in all rights it should be " he choose to keep me" and with that there should be some kind of graditude to it, and there isn't.

Like you mentioned, if the roles were reversed you would have left him.

Both of you have some hard work ahead. What are the chances of you looking at it this way?


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## the guy

There is no try, only do


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## veebras

the guy said:


> v-
> I just re read your org post, and I keep seeing "he choose to stay" It concerns me b/c in all rights it should be " he choose to keep me" and with that there should be some kind of graditude to it, and there isn't.
> 
> Like you mentioned, if the roles were reversed you would have left him.
> 
> Both of you have some hard work ahead. What are the chances of you looking at it this way?


Yes, I know I have said he chose to stay.. I keep saying that.. I dont know.. I am grateful that he stayed to a point, but why stay and make yourself and everyone else around you miserable whil not really doing anything but pretending that everything's okay on the days we can have sex, and then when sex is null for a few then freak out all over again..Its just not healthy for any of us.
I'm grateful.
Just getting tired, tired of feeling bad and alone. And I feel un-loved as I am certain he does, again I am just confused,,!!!!


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## Badblood

tierzastarr said:


> Badblood, I know she needs to understand, but snapping at her isn't going to help. It's just going to put her on the defensive or she's going to end up leaving the forum.


I understand that you are a compassionate person,Tierzastarr, but the OP is not. I'm not trying to bash her, I'm trying to get her to turn her thinking from her own selfish thoughts and begin to show that same compassion and remorse to her husband. But she refuses to do so. I really don't think she came here to find out what she can do to help her husband, she came here to shift blame to him. Look at all of her posts. She will say, yes I cheated, but.......then goes right back to ranting about her husbands issues. Instead of being defensive, and blame-shifting, if she were to ask , "what can I do to be a better person, or to atone to my husband or to prove my love". I wouldn't be so insistant.


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## veebras

EleGirl said:


> So this friend of your knew about the affair? Did how long did she know? Did she know the guy you cheated with? Did she ever do things with you and the OM?
> 
> No wonder your husband does not feel safe when you visit her. He knows that she is no friend of his. IMHO, you need to drop her as a friend to show respect to your husband.


I am not going to drop my friend who I love as a dear friend, she didnt tel him because she is my friend.. They were friends too but not like we are of course but now yeah, things arent so great between the three of us as he looks at her as a problem, aiding the situation. I have tried to explain, it's not liek she told me to do the things I did, or that she was event there, she never was.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Badblood said:


> I understand that you are a compassionate person,Tierzastarr, but the OP is not. I'm not trying to bash her, I'm trying to get her to turn her thinking from her own selfish thoughts and begin to show that same compassion and remorse to her husband. But she refuses to do so. I really don't think she came here to find out what she can do to help her husband, she came here to shift blame to him. Look at all of her posts. She will say, yes I cheated, but.......then goes right back to ranting about her husbands issues. Instead of being defensive, and blame-shifting, if she were to ask , "what can I do to be a better person, or to atone to my husband or to prove my love". I wouldn't be so insistant.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## tierzastarr

Please read these!!!

Here's a Letter to A Wayward
Letter to Wayward Spouse


Rick's Letter


SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity


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## veebras

Badblood said:


> I understand that you are a compassionate person,Tierzastarr, but the OP is not. I'm not trying to bash her, I'm trying to get her to turn her thinking from her own selfish thoughts and begin to show that same compassion and remorse to her husband. But she refuses to do so. I really don't think she came here to find out what she can do to help her husband, she came here to shift blame to him. Look at all of her posts. She will say, yes I cheated, but.......then goes right back to ranting about her husbands issues. Instead of being defensive, and blame-shifting, if she were to ask , "what can I do to be a better person, or to atone to my husband or to prove my love". I wouldn't be so insistant.


Okay...I came here for one purpose, or two I guess.. One - to rant my story on the internet and get some feedback as I am sitting here alone at 3am while my husband is MIA and I am sad.
Two - I would liek to get some suggestions as to what I could do to help save my marriage and if the ways that my Hb and I are feeling/acting out are normal, or if they are not, and if you think that he can overcome this based off of what I have stated.


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## always_hopefull

veebras said:


> Good because that guy I was having an affair with was a mistake.


So the A wasn't a mistake, just the guy?



veebras said:


> He cannot forgive me.


So what have you done to prove that you are worth R? Do you stay with him and spend time with him on one of his days off, especially when he says he needs you? Or do you once again act selfish and put your own needs ahead of his, because "you" need a friend at that time. You are not being a good wife or mom, you are continuing to be a selfish spoiled wife who thinks everyone else should put your needs ahead of theirs, even when you were the one to hurt them.



veebras said:


> I am being honest and a good wife and mom, I dont think it's fair that he can just be mean over something that happened 6 mos ago that I cannot erase! I can never take it back, we can only move forward or really on be in today. I have tried to explain this to him numerous times, but never really listens or understands, he only sees his POV and starts yelling and guess what.. leaves.


He's still angry because you are rug sweeping and continuing to be selfish. You get upset because he only sees his POV? Do you even see his? You put effort into having an affair, time and effort you stole away from him and gave to another man, now you go out to a basketball game with a friend and prioritize that over him? He's still pissed and hurt because you are still showing him that you really couldn't give a rats ass what he wants as long as your getting what you want. 



veebras said:


> tonight Hb tells me I choose my friend over him anytime


It's his perspective that counts, you cheated, it's up to you to change that perspective by acting differently. 



veebras said:


> besides how long do I have to endure not being able to go anywhere without getting threatened by divorce, or told I dont love him? I find it somewhat rediculous, yes I doid horribly wrong. But for how long do I suffer, I mean, do you really think it is okay to freak out about something whenever you want just because something bad happened to you in your past!? No.
> And who wants to be with someone who has no friends and no life besides work?!


You have to endure his scrutiny for as long as he feels you need, and as long as you act like this he will feel the need to distrust you. You find it ridiculous and that you have to suffer? I find that an amazingly selfish statement, if you ever want a chance with H you need to change that attitude. 



veebras said:


> And who wants to be with someone who has no friends and no life besides work?!
> Today 12:38 AM


You might want to start asking yourself who wants to be with a cheater.

If you really want to do something for your H, send him here so we can help him. From the sounds of it all you want is an easy way for him to get over this. If I come across as harsh, that's because I am. You sound just like my exh, too busy fussing over yourself to realize your spouse has needs.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

tierzastarr said:


> Please read these!!!
> 
> Here's a Letter to A Wayward
> Letter to Wayward Spouse
> 
> 
> Rick's Letter
> 
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity


Very good letter.


----------



## veebras

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> It always amazes me how Waywards just expect things to go back to normal.
> 
> Listen...6 months is nothing...NOTHING....when it comes to healing from infidelity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you have wrote above reeks of selfishness...allow me to quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *"However, this is the problem. He cannot forgive me."*
> 
> Ya think? Please...he is just now beginning to get the feeling back in his legs....geesh give the guy some real time for Christ sake.
> 
> 
> *"We can have a great day, or a great week, or we can be just okay and getting along and then....suddenly, out of th eblue in my opinion, he's depressed, which causes or turns into anger, and he's lashing out at me, or snod remarks etc"*
> 
> Its not out of the blue...it's out of the pit-of-despair that's festering where his heart used to be. Oh..and really snod remarks? Anger? Lashing out? He is in real pain...real pain caused by you and your worried about snod remarks....please!
> 
> 
> *"I just dont think it is fair that if he chose to stay in this relationship and if I am not doing anythign wrong, I am being honest and a good wife and mom, I dont think it's fair that he can just be mean over something that happened 6 mos ago that I cannot erase!"*
> 
> It's not fair...correct...it's entirely not fair to HIM. Ya so honey...I cheated on you...I know your whole life is going to be in turmoil now...I step all over you manhood and perhaps you will be a single father that sees his kids on the weekends when all is said and done. It's no big deal..I am being good now..I know it looks exactly the same as it did before when I was lying to you and sleeping with another guy...but for real i am being good...so just get over it...because it's not fair to me. PLEASE!
> 
> 
> *"But anytime I want to see a girlfriend even with my kids with me, he is not okay with that. He has become CONTROLLING beyond belief..." *
> 
> Maybe because he thinks your girlfriend knew about the affair and didn't tell him, maybe he thinks she is a toxic enabler...or maybe he thinks you should be more concerned about him rather than you silly girlfriend.
> 
> 
> *"I'm sorry but I would like to continue somewhat of a social life outside our marriage and maybe have at least one friend!?"*
> 
> Wow! So you cheat on your husband, crush him...he is laying on the floor in a pile of his own guts...just crying out to be taken seriously and you want a social life...nice.
> 
> 
> *"I am a FT worker, and mom the rest of the evening, and maid, then at 11:30 at night when he gets home I am expected to be a fabulous wife too, when do I ever get me time to be me and be relaxed..? Ugh sorry"*
> 
> You are not a fabulous wife...that's for sure. No your not sorry. I detect not one shred of empathy for what you have put your husband through.
> 
> 
> 
> Listen..you haven't even begun to do any of the heavy work involved with reconciliation. If you and your husband are ever going to have a shot... you...yes you are going to have to get over how important you think you are.


Im sorry but I tend to think, as I'm sure that you do, that I am important as I am my own being and my only self. Of course I care about the ways that I am feeling through all of this, how else would I share my thoughts and emotions about this situation.. That does not mean that I do not care or have any empathy for my Hb. Although I find some of your comments a bit humorous I feel that you are an a** when it comes to delivery of any meaning.


----------



## tierzastarr

You need to drop the friend. She is not a friend to the marriage. These people are called toxic. They encourage the affair or they just stand by and do nothing. This is why your h freaks out.


----------



## tierzastarr

As everyone else has asked what have you done to help your h heal? Are you transparent? 
Have you come clean about everything?


----------



## Badblood

There is only one way to reconcile your marriage. ALWAYS think of his needs first. Right now, he doesn't trust you, and rightly so. You have to prove you are a changed person, every day, in every way. You must do ALL of the work to repair the marriage, until he is sure of you and that it will never happen again. Remember that part. WHEN HE IS SURE, not you. Whatever he says to do, you do, unless it's illegal or dangerous. And never say that you married him for life, you broke the marriage vows, he didn't. Own what you did, do what he needs you to do, don't complain, and become a good, unselfish wife, and maybe if you are very lucky, you will be able to work on the marriage issues together. It will take a lot of time and effort, can you do it? Also, any of your friends that he doasen't like should not be your friends anymore.


----------



## the guy

There is a certian submission that takes place with true graditude. 

Its been 20 months since d-day and the 1st 6 month I experienced a huge degree of submission from fWW and with that submission came a responsablity to forgive my W.

I think it was my W complete submission and her ability to give up *everything* to stay married to me. Again it was a way that she could show me how grateful she was in keeping her after sleeping with all those men.

I'm not judging here, my intent is just food for thought in the hopes that you can find away to keep your marriage. Confussion sucks, commitment is what you need. Help him heal. It won't last for ever, hes just looking for a solid reason to have forgiveness.


----------



## tierzastarr

veebras said:


> Two - I would liek to get some suggestions as to what I could do to help save my marriage and if the ways that my Hb and I are feeling/acting out are normal, or if they are not, and if you think that he can overcome this based off of what I have stated.


The SurvivingInfidelity link has alot of ways to help your marriage. Read it.


----------



## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> Please read these!!!
> 
> Here's a Letter to A Wayward
> Letter to Wayward Spouse
> 
> 
> Rick's Letter
> 
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity




Thank you. Rick's letter is definitly how he is/feels. It hurts to read that. I dont know how to mend it. 
Me being me, I think if it's really THAT hard then it's time to move on. To not suffer, and to laugh again. But I love him and I dont want to let go, maybe it's for the best.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

veebras said:


> Im sorry but I tend to think, as I'm sure that you do, that I am important as I am my own being and my only self. Of course I care about the ways that I am feeling through all of this, how else would I share my thoughts and emotions about this situation.. That does not mean that I do not care or have any empathy for my Hb. Although I find some of your comments a bit humorous I feel that you are an a** when it comes to delivery of any meaning.


I meant no humor and I most defiantly meant to be an arse. I was hoping you would snap out of your stooper and look in the mirror....but I guess you haven't.


I have yet to read anything that would lead me to believe that you care about anything other then yourself. 

I mean I am not even getting a slight inkling of a feeling of empathy from you..

My heart goes out to your husband...you have no idea what you are putting him through.


----------



## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> As everyone else has asked what have you done to help your h heal? Are you transparent?
> Have you come clean about everything?


Yes, I have told him the details of why I think it happened, basically due to me needing to fulfill something/loneliness due to his job and him never being home, me feeling resentful, feeling as if a single mom.. (which I know his job is providing for me and our family and is necessary and he puts his self through hell for us to have a good life)

I have come clean about the details such as where I was, how it happened, who I was with, how many times, whether I was in live with him, etc.

?


----------



## tierzastarr

veebras said:


> thank you. Rick's letter is definitly how he is/feels. It hurts to read that. I dont know how to mend it.
> Me being me, i think if it's really that hard then it's time to move on. To not suffer, and to laugh again. But i love him and i dont want to let go, maybe it's for the best.


no it's not for the best. Look at it this way, you put the effort in the affair. Keeping it hidden from your h. Now you need to put the effort into saving your marriage. Again, what have you done to help him heal?


----------



## aug

veebras said:


> I am not going to drop my friend who I love as a dear friend, she didnt tel him because she is my friend.. They were friends too but not like we are of course but now yeah, things arent so great between the three of us as he looks at her as a problem, aiding the situation. I have tried to explain, it's not liek she told me to do the things I did, or that she was event there, she never was.




Did this friend of yours tell/advice you to stop the affair? When she knew of the affair, did she say to you "you silly geese, stop the stupid affair"?

If not, she enabled you. A true friend would point out the pitfall you're in and would try to pull you out. If she didnt bit(h slap you silly for being in an affair, then she's not a friend, is she?


----------



## the guy

As a betrayed H I've trown some ideas out there with regards to mending this and yet nothing, is it just me or is it my spelling?


----------



## tierzastarr

veebras said:


> Yes, I have told him the details of why I think it happened, basically due to me needing to fulfill something/loneliness due to his job and him never being home, me feeling resentful, feeling as if a single mom.. (which I know his job is providing for me and our family and is necessary and he puts his self through hell for us to have a good life)
> 
> I have come clean about the details such as where I was, how it happened, who I was with, how many times, whether I was in live with him, etc.
> 
> ?


Are you transparent?


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

the guy said:


> As a betrayed H I've trown some ideas out there with regards to mending this and yet nothing, is it just me or is it my spelling?



She not interested in what you say because it does not line up with her agenda.

I mean she still hanging out with the friend who new about the affair and didn't tell the husband.

i can only imagine how small this guy must feel.


And yoursp ellingds is anoet goosd.


----------



## veebras

Badblood said:


> There is only one way to reconcile your marriage. ALWAYS think of his needs first. Right now, he doesn't trust you, and rightly so. You have to prove you are a changed person, every day, in every way. You must do ALL of the work to repair the marriage, until he is sure of you and that it will never happen again. Remember that part. WHEN HE IS SURE, not you. Whatever he says to do, you do, unless it's illegal or dangerous. And never say that you married him for life, you broke the marriage vows, he didn't. Own what you did, do what he needs you to do, don't complain, and become a good, unselfish wife, and maybe if you are very lucky, you will be able to work on the marriage issues together. It will take a lot of time and effort, can you do it? Also, any of your friends that he doasen't like should not be your friends anymore.


I get what you are saying.I want to do what you imply.. However, I just dont think I can. I dont think I can get rid of my friend, I dont want to, I need her too. And I cant magically change me overnight, I am trying to work on me.. I am trying.. I am not the most affectionate or whatever type, I am mostly a selfish aries and I care a lot about me first, I realize this is not a good thing in my personal life. I have had a hard life and other things liek being spoiled beyond belief and making the rules for my parents and all kinds of stupid things.l. Trying to learn to be a better person as I can. 
I work really hard too and my job is so very stressfull! So at the end of my workday I am mentally exhausted, somedays and more so I feel as if it is not worth it! I need to work on myself but can never find the time or energy as I have to constantly give, give, give myself to others -at work, the kids, and my HB..

AGGGH


----------



## Bugz Bunny

WOW...after reading four pages of this thread I can only say WOW...

You cant help your husband because you are a stubborn person and you dont value your marriage and family...

From all your posts I only see that you care about yourself and noone else...You care even more for your friend who knew about your cheating and who enabled it by not telling your husband (this is extremly disrespectful to your husband)...

There is no future for you and your husband together and its not because of him or his character,its only because of you...sorry but just divorce him because he deserves better...


----------



## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> Are you transparent?


Yes, I would say so


----------



## veebras

the guy said:


> As a betrayed H I've trown some ideas out there with regards to mending this and yet nothing, is it just me or is it my spelling?


I will look back..I have been trying to type, and read, and drinking thanks


----------



## veebras

Bugz Bunny said:


> WOW...after reading four pages of this thread I can only say WOW...
> 
> You cant help your husband because you are a stubborn person and you dont value your marriage and family...
> 
> From all your posts I only see that you care about yourself and noone else...You care even more for your friend who knew about your cheating and who enabled it by not telling your husband (this is extremly disrespectful to your husband)...
> 
> There is no future for you and your husband together and its not because of him or his character,its only because of you...sorry but just divorce him because he deserves better...


Yeah, I am writing the post about myself and my life, so of course it is about me and my thoughts and feelings you freak


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

veebras said:


> I get what you are saying.I want to do what you imply.. However, I just dont think I can. I dont think I can get rid of my friend, I dont want to, I need her too. And I cant magically change me overnight, I am trying to work on me.. I am trying.. I am not the most affectionate or whatever type, I am mostly a selfish aries and I care a lot about me first, I realize this is not a good thing in my personal life. I have had a hard life and other things liek being spoiled beyond belief and making the rules for my parents and all kinds of stupid things.l. Trying to learn to be a better person as I can.
> I work really hard too and my job is so very stressfull! So at the end of my workday I am mentally exhausted, somedays and more so I feel as if it is not worth it! I need to work on myself but can never find the time or energy as I have to constantly give, give, give myself to others -at work, the kids, and my HB..
> 
> AGGGH


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:

Oh..your an Aries...that explains it.


----------



## always_hopefull

the guy said:


> As a betrayed H I've trown some ideas out there with regards to mending this and yet nothing, is it just me or is it my spelling?


She's in her fog still. She came here so we can all tell her what a horrible husband she has, that he should be happy that she has friends to support her during this difficult time. I just wish she would refer her H so we could support someone who truly needs it.


----------



## veebras

Okay this is getting stupid..
As I previously stated I came here to vent as I am alone and sad and that I was wondering if you think this marriage could be salvaged or not. WOW


----------



## veebras

always_hopefull said:


> She's in her fog still. She came here so we can all tell her what a horrible husband she has, that he should be happy that she has friends to support her during this difficult time. I just wish she would refer her H so we could support someone who truly needs it.


Bug, you know what I havent ignored you. I responded to one of your earlier posts.. my goodness


----------



## the guy

V- give some examples of your tranparency. We here at TAM might give some more ideas for the quest to forgiveness.


----------



## always_hopefull

veebras said:


> I get what you are saying.I want to do what you imply.. However, I just dont think I can. I dont think I can get rid of my friend, I dont want to, I need her too. And I cant magically change me overnight, I am trying to work on me.. I am trying.. I am not the most affectionate or whatever type, I am mostly a selfish aries and I care a lot about me first, I realize this is not a good thing in my personal life. I have had a hard life and other things liek being spoiled beyond belief and making the rules for my parents and all kinds of stupid things.l. Trying to learn to be a better person as I can.
> *I work really hard too and my job is so very stressfull! So at the end of my workday I am mentally exhausted, somedays and more so I feel as if it is not worth it! I need to work on myself but can never find the time or energy as I have to constantly give, give, give myself to others -at work, the kids, and my HB..*
> 
> AGGGH


Welcome to parenthood, this will end when the child grows up and moves out...if your lucky.


----------



## Badblood

So it's still about what YOU need, is it? Okay, at least I tried. Do your poor husband a HUGE favor. Divorce him as soon as possible. Keep thinking it's all about yourself, and when you are alone and nobody cares, or when your kids grow up to be as selfish as you are, think back to your choices. My sympathies to your husband.


----------



## aug

veebras said:


> Okay this is getting stupid..
> As I previously stated I came here to vent as I am alone and sad and that I was wondering if you think this marriage could be salvaged or not. WOW



It can be salvaged as long as your husband wants it to be. And you show the deep remorsefulness required.

You need to stop the drinking so that you're clear headed and we are not responding to alcohol-induced posts.


----------



## the guy

You with a tough crowd, alot of betrayed here. Hang in there and reread this thread after the drink fades.


----------



## veebras

the guy said:


> V- give some examples of your tranparency. We here at TAM might give some more ideas for the quest to forgiveness.


Such as telling him why I believe the affair happened, and all the details, etc.And how I think that we can mend those issues, and that big changes need to be made on both ends.

I tell him how I feel at the moment I feel it, I dont hold things in oir hide my thoughts or feelings to explode later. I try and take on issues as they come, head on. I like to talk about problems, he does not. Only they surface in anger/sadness gets bad.

I tell him that I love him and try and reassure him by words mostly, and some kissing, etc.,..

Is that what you mean by transparency or not?


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Troll vibe anyone?


----------



## tierzastarr

Showing him your phone when he asks. Email passwords etc.
Check your private messages


----------



## veebras

Badblood said:


> So it's still about what YOU need, is it? Okay, at least I tried. Do your poor husband a HUGE favor. Divorce him as soon as possible. Keep thinking it's all about yourself, and when you are alone and nobody cares, or when your kids grow up to be as selfish as you are, think back to your choices. My sympathies to your husband.


My sympathies to you and your obvious hatred bottled up to explode on the PC screens worldwide.... lol

WOW


----------



## Badblood

aug said:


> It can be salvaged as long as your husband wants it to be. And you show the deep remorsefulness required.
> 
> You need to stop the drinking so that you're clear headed and we are not responding to alcohol-induced posts.


She has already said that she is unwilling to put any work into saving her marriage that requires her to think of anybody else. I think this thread is a waste of time, so I'm out of here.


----------



## veebras

aug said:


> It can be salvaged as long as your husband wants it to be. And you show the deep remorsefulness required.
> 
> You need to stop the drinking so that you're clear headed and we are not responding to alcohol-induced posts.


I am not drunk, just have a beer Ive been sipping on for an hour..its warm and not so tasty


----------



## always_hopefull

veebras said:


> Okay this is getting stupid..
> As I previously stated I came here to vent as I am alone and sad and that I was wondering if you think this marriage could be salvaged or not. WOW


I really want to ask you a serious question. Do we sound like your H? This is not meant to be an attack, but to help you understand that we, as BS's need the same thing from WS's to help us heal. Without it we cannot heal and cannot move on, and cannot R.

Believe it or not we are trying to help you. By your own admission you have been a self absorbed personality, if you really want your M to work then you need to change, and now. Your refusal to leave your friend speaks volumes towards us and your H, it says you are not willing to sacrifice anything for R. Sadly this will be your biggest mistake, because it will most likely cost you your M.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Badblood said:


> She has already said that she is unwilling to put any work into saving her marriage that requires her to think of anybody else. I think this thread is a waste of time, so I'm out of here.



:iagree:

I'm with him.


----------



## aug

Badblood said:


> She has already said that she is unwilling to put any work into saving her marriage that requires her to think of anybody else. I think this thread is a waste of time, so I'm out of here.


She's also drinking as she writes on this thread.


----------



## veebras

tierzastarr said:


> Showing him your phone when he asks. Email passwords etc.
> Check your private messages


Yes I do this.. I dont have anything to hide


----------



## Badblood

veebras said:


> My sympathies to you and your obvious hatred bottled up to explode on the PC screens worldwide.... lol
> 
> WOW


Read my thread, before you make sarcastic comments. My cheating wife is now in a mental institution, after a suicide attempt, because I told her I was divorcing her.


----------



## Bugz Bunny

veebras said:


> Yeah, I am writing the post about myself and my life, so of course it is about me and my thoughts and feelings you freak



Yeah,but only your feelings for yourself...there is no place for your husband or thoughts on how to save your children from living in an broken family in your posts (life)...

I see only you,your friend,you,your friend and then a little bit about you husband how he is awful and how he doesnt understand you and thats all in your posts...

I don't know how old your children are but someday in future they will lose respect for you for breaking up their family...

Good Luck


----------



## warlock07

veebras How long did the affair last?

I was with you when you originally said that you were meeting with a friend.
But you said that she was aware of the affair but still chose not to tell him, he has every right to ask you not meet with her.

Was she covering for you during the affair?
Did she help you and OM in any other way?

She helped continue the affair and your husband has every right not to like her. That is not what good friends do. Your husband should be your first priority. You should do whatever it takes to help him recover and you cannot even stop meeting a friend who actively helped you continue the affair? I don't think he will have a problem with you meeting other friends


----------



## EleGirl

How to make your husband feel safer?

What did you do when you ended your affair? How did you handle that?

Here are some suggestions… 

Have a talk with your husband and tell him that you know he is hurting and you want to help him heal. That you will be 100% honest and open with him. But to do that you need him to stop the love busting.. The anger, the yelling, the mean things he says. He has to make it safe for you to be open and honest. (and you have to do this too in return. With radical honesty, a person has to be safe to be radically honest and open.)

Institute complete transparency & radical honesty in your marriage. Give your computer password, your email passwords, Facebook password, phone password, etc to your husband. Tell him that he can check any time he wants. Tell him that he can look at anything of yours that he wants to… but that you expect the same from him in return. (everything goes both ways) He might check a lot at first… for months, maybe a year or two. But once he trusts you again he will stop.

When your husband asks you about the affair give him truthful answers. He will most likely ask you the same questions over and over. Just answer them over and over with a lot of patients. Remember that you know everything about the affair… believe it or not this will make him closer to you. Because it becomes a shared experience by you including him. Just be a sort of reserved when/if he asks you about actual sex acts… those images will be stuck in his head for a long time.

If he starts love busting when you are talking about this, calmly tell him to stop. Come up with a key word.. I use the word ‘stop’. Tell him that you can discuss things further once he’s calmed down. DO NOT ENGAGE IN AN ANGRY OUTBURST

Be patient with him… tell him that he can ask you any question he wants about the affair and that you will answer him openly and honestly.

If you can call him at work, call him once or twice. If you cannot call, maybe text a couple of times. Keep in contact with him, letting him know what you are doing.

Drop your friends who knew of the affair and/or helped you with the affair. They are not friends of your husbands and he knows it. There is a slight chance that he might accept an apology from some, but highly doubtful. Your husband has no reason to trust them.

Coping with Infidelity: Resentment (Part 4)
Coping with Infidelity: Restoring (Part 3)


----------



## the guy

Yes and some, give him all your password; cell, laptop, FB and anything else that could be used so he can validate your commitment. 
Leave your cell phone out so he can check up on you. i know it sound like an invasion of privacy, but right now he needs see you have nothing to hide.

Call him check in often, and let him know your thinking about him.

keep him up to date on your day and were you were and with whom.

The more open you are about your everday life it will bring a small amount of trust and with that a small amount of forgiveness. then before you know it will start to snow ball. he will have total access to you and he will soon see you have nothing to hide.


----------



## veebras

always_hopefull said:


> I really want to ask you a serious question. Do we sound like your H? This is not meant to be an attack, but to help you understand that we, as BS's need the same thing from WS's to help us heal. Without it we cannot heal and cannot move on, and cannot R.
> 
> Believe it or not we are trying to help you. By your own admission you have been a self absorbed personality, if you really want your M to work then you need to change, and now. Your refusal to leave your friend speaks volumes towards us and your H, it says you are not willing to sacrifice anything for R. Sadly this will be your biggest mistake, because it will most likely cost you your M.


I do really want it to work, and yes, you mostly do sound like him - almost all the posts.

Thanks, but I dont drop friends just like that, no...
I wouldnt. My Hb has never asked me to anyway.

I dont think that marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself. I want to be happy and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, it shouldnt be this hard, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..


----------



## veebras

Badblood said:


> Read my thread, before you make sarcastic comments. My cheating wife is now in a mental institution, after a suicide attempt, because I told her I was divorcing her.


Sorry thats crzy....
But I'm not sure how youre helping anyone or yourself on here.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

veebras said:


> I do really want it to work, and yes, you mostly do sound like him - almost all the posts.
> 
> Thanks, but I dont drop friends just like that, no...
> I wouldnt. My Hb has never asked me to anyway.
> 
> I dont think that marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself. I want to be happy and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, it shouldnt be this hard, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..



I have never seen anyone more self absorbed.

He shouldn't have to ask you to leave your friend in the dust...she was an enabler.


----------



## EleGirl

Veebras..

How much did your friend know about the affair? Did who know the guy you cheated with? Did she do things with you and him?


----------



## aug

veebras said:


> I dont think that marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself. *I want to be happy* and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, *it shouldnt be this hard*, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..



Actually, real happiness is one of the hardest thing to have.


----------



## veebras

Bugz Bunny said:


> Yeah,but only your feelings for yourself...there is no place for your husband or thoughts on how to save your children from living in an broken family in your posts (life)...
> 
> I see only you,your friend,you,your friend and then a little bit about you husband how he is awful and how he doesnt understand you and thats all in your posts...
> 
> I don't know how old your children are but someday in future they will lose respect for you for breaking up their family...
> 
> Good Luck


Can I like block you? whatever,
I am a good mom, and divorces happen daily (not that I agree with them completely). They will survive and thrive regardless of that.


----------



## the guy

You were ment to be when you married, its just hard to find it again.

And stop drinking warm beer!!!!!!!!


----------



## baltimorebarry

Veebras you should not have to be punished for your infidelity. Your husband needs to take a look at himself. From my experience wives usually cheat on their husbands when they are not getting enough emotional attention. Is it wrong to cheat, of course it is. But at the end of the day we are only human. If husbands are not meeting the needs of their wives then they should expect consequences. We men tend to forget why our ladies fell in love with us in the first place. It is so easy for a man to get caught up in his own life that he forgets to share his feeling with you. If you are truly sorry then he should except that if he wants to continue to be with you. Now if you were messing with someone he knows, then you may have a journey on your hands. If you have not already you need to explain to him what lead to your affair. I am willing to bet he has come up short in something that you needed to feel connected to him. That's the real reason he is upset, he thought everything was fine only to find out his lady has cheated. But you knew that things were not right in the marriage and I'm sure you tried to talk to him about it only to be pushed away or ignored. Bottom line is that things will have to change for you two to be happy going forward. The mind is a powerful tool and your husband needs to get over it. He needs to use your affair as a wake up call and fix whats wrong in your relationship. Good Luck.


----------



## aug

aug said:


> Actually, real happiness is one of the hardest thing to have.


I meant not just for you, but for everyone.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

veebras said:


> Can I like block you? whatever,
> I am a good mom, and divorces happen daily (not that I agree with them completely). They will survive and thrive regardless of that.



Quite on the contrary...divorces are proven to cause slow development mentally, emotionally and physically in children.


----------



## veebras

warlock07 said:


> veebras How long did the affair last?
> 
> I was with you when you originally said that you were meeting with a friend.
> But you said that she was aware of the affair but still chose not to tell him, he has every right to ask you not meet with her.
> 
> Was she covering for you during the affair?
> Did she help you and OM in any other way?
> 
> She helped continue the affair and your husband has every right not to like her. That is not what good friends do. Your husband should be your first priority. You should do whatever it takes to help him recover and you cannot even stop meeting a friend who actively helped you continue the affair? I don't think he will have a problem with you meeting other friends


Unfortunately, she covered for me once by not answering her cellw hen he called.. So yes, she aided, and evaded. But friends stick up for and help their friends. She isnt into the idea of me cheating, didnt even like it. She did what I asked. 

I dont have many friends, moved around different states all of my life, she is my one true friend I can laugh with and tell anything to.. man


----------



## the guy

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

Theres a moral compass that one has that defines there character and then there a marital relationship and how problem are dealt with. Two different issues.


----------



## Jen S

baltimorebarry said:


> Veebras you should not have to be punished for your infidelity. Your husband needs to take a look at himself. From my experience wives usually cheat on their husbands when they are not getting enough emotional attention. Is it wrong to cheat, of course it is. But at the end of the day we are only human. If husbands are not meeting the needs of their wives then they should expect consequences. We men tend to forget why our ladies fell in love with us in the first place. It is so easy for a man to get caught up in his own life that he forgets to share his feeling with you. If you are truly sorry then he should except that if he wants to continue to be with you. Now if you were messing with someone he knows, then you may have a journey on your hands. If you have not already you need to explain to him what lead to your affair. I am willing to bet he has come up short in something that you needed to feel connected to him. That's the real reason he is upset, he thought everything was fine only to find out his lady has cheated. But you knew that things were not right in the marriage and I'm sure you tried to talk to him about it only to be pushed away or ignored. Bottom line is that things will have to change for you two to be happy going forward. The mind is a powerful tool and your husband needs to get over it. He needs to use your affair as a wake up call and fix whats wrong in your relationship. Good Luck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is spot on in many ways. I hope the OP isn't driven off by some of the negative reaction from others.


----------



## aug

baltimorebarry said:


> Veebras you should not have to be punished for your infidelity.


Do you mean there are no consequences for infidelity?


----------



## EleGirl

veebras said:


> Unfortunately, she covered for me once by not answering her cellw hen he called.. So yes, she aided, and evaded. But friends stick up for and help their friends. She isnt into the idea of me cheating, didnt even like it. She did what I asked.
> 
> I dont have many friends, moved around different states all of my life, she is my one true friend I can laugh with and tell anything to.. man


So you have chosen who is more important to you. At this point you are losing your husband. She is more important to you than he.


----------



## veebras

the guy said:


> You were ment to be when you married, its just hard to find it again.
> 
> And stop drinking warm beer!!!!!!!!




We never laugh anymore, thats the hard, sad part. We just work and pay bills and grind on.. I suppose that is alot of people's lives, but I also suppose they find a friend in their mate. I dont think we are even friends anymore because he simply hates alot about me. And because I hold resentment, and have for some time. And now he does as well. It [email protected]


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

veebras said:


> Unfortunately, she covered for me once by not answering her cellw hen he called.. So yes, she aided, and evaded. But friends stick up for and help their friends. She isnt into the idea of me cheating, didnt even like it. She did what I asked.
> 
> I dont have many friends, moved around different states all of my life, she is my one true friend I can laugh with and tell anything to.. man



No wrong once again, friends...true friends tell their friend when they are messing up and help to correct that action. They never help a friend kill their marriage.


----------



## tierzastarr

No, it isn't right to put your friend before your husband. Which is exactly what you're doing. How is he supposed to believe that you're with her when you say you are. Especially when she covered for you before.


----------



## warlock07

veebras said:


> Unfortunately, she covered for me once by not answering her cellw hen he called.. So yes, she aided, and evaded. But friends stick up for and help their friends. She isnt into the idea of me cheating, didnt even like it. She did what I asked.
> 
> I dont have many friends, moved around different states all of my life, she is my one true friend I can laugh with and tell anything to.. man


Are you serious? Don't you know how wrong this is? Can you afford counselling? you are coming off as narcissistic here


----------



## always_hopefull

veebras said:


> I do really want it to work, and yes, you mostly do sound like him - almost all the posts.
> 
> Thanks, but I *dont drop friends just like that, no...*
> I wouldnt. My Hb has never asked me to anyway.
> 
> I dont think that* marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself.* I want to be happy and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, it shouldnt be this hard, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..


Your H no longer sees her as your friend, he sees her as part of your affair, she knew, she supported you, she helped you hide things from your H, she helped you cheat. Therefore she is an enemy to your M and your H.

Right now you are a cheater, and you are saying that you want to be "yourself". You may as well be telling your H that you are going to continue to seek our validation outside the marriage.

Marriage is not about you or your feelings, it's about the both of you. Take that ME you keep typing about and turn it upside down, you will see a WE, that's what happens when you get married, the me becomes a we. Until you realize this you will be doomed to failure in all your relationships, even with your children.

Have you guys gone for any MC or you for IC? If not I would recommend it.


----------



## tierzastarr

Op, check your private messages


----------



## EleGirl

aug said:


> Do you mean there are no consequences for infidelity?


I don't think that's what he means. There are negative consequences for infidelity. But the unfaithful spouse does not have to endure being 'punished' by their spouse yelling and being verbally abusive on a regular basis.


----------



## veebras

Jen S said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> This is spot on in many ways. I hope the OP isn't driven off by some of the negative reaction from others.


Thanks, I never saw that orig posting, I appreciate it and it makes me cry.


----------



## Badblood

Geez, what does your husband have to laugh about? Hey, my wife is a cheater, isn't that funny?


----------



## Badblood

Actually, I'm beginning to think this whole thread is really funny. Tomorrow, when the Op sobers up, I wonder what she will think of this thread?


----------



## veebras

Ok, thanks for the BS mostly, seems like a big group of cheated on freaks who need some validation and try to say hurtful things to other cheaters to make themselves feel better. O-TAY. 
And, thanks to those that were helpful with the info, really 
Bye


----------



## Bugz Bunny

veebras said:


> Can I like block you? whatever,
> I am a good mom, and divorces happen daily (not that I agree with them completely). They will survive and thrive regardless of that.



Oh sorry honey,but you actually don't understand how devastating infidelity is for a family and how devastating a divorce is for children - yes they will survive but will be damaged in someway...You will realize this later in life...

And I don't know if you can block me,but no need for that because after this post I'm out of this thread because you are a lost case...

Good Luck


----------



## always_hopefull

Badblood said:


> Actually, I'm beginning to think this whole thread is really funny. Tomorrow, when the Op sobers up, I wonder what she will think of this thread?


She's probably going to remember one thing....



veebras said:


> Thanks, I never saw that orig posting, I appreciate it and it makes me cry.


The post that says she shouldn't be punished for her infidelity and she will tell her H all about it.


----------



## Jen S

veebras said:


> Ok, thanks for the BS mostly, seems like a big group of cheated on freaks who need some validation and try to say hurtful things to other cheaters to make themselves feel better. O-TAY.
> And, thanks to those that were helpful with the info, really
> Bye


Oh no, really don't feel like you need to leave. There is a ton of great advice on this site and I'm glad I found it when I did. Don't feel that just because some of it is conflicting that you need to check out or distrust the people here. Really try giving it another go and do your best to help your marriage.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

always_hopefull said:


> She's probably going to remember one thing....
> 
> 
> 
> The post that says she shouldn't be punished for her infidelity and she will tell her H all about it.



Remember it...heck...I bet she printed it off and made fliers. Shes got the original framed above her bed.


----------



## warlock07

Veeebras let me tell you how your husband is feeling right now. Lets assume your friend name as J. J has been your life long friend. You always confided in her about your secrets and stuff since you are BFF. But in actuality J laughs at you. She make fun of you in front of her friends. She never respected you and you are just a dirty [email protected] who just brings in interesting drama and gossip. She makes fun of how you were never her friend and only keeps you around because she has no one around for now and you are very available and do as she tells you. She tells her friend how you have every STD in the book and was making fun of you behind your back Make this scenario as bad as you can Now imagine this. You found out and confronted her. She apologizes and says it was a mistake. Now can you forget everything and look for the future? Be best friends again. The past has no relevance now? Things like these cause emotional scars and are very difficult to heal from. The reassurance part is on you if you want to make it work. You will lose a small part of yourself because you repent for the mistakes you made. You scarred him for life. Its a mistake you will have to live with.

Edit: What a waste.


----------



## always_hopefull

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Remember it...heck...I bet she printed it off and made fliers. Shes got the original framed above her bed.


Hopefully she's had enough to drink that she leaves the website address on it. Then maybe he will come here to check it out and see everything, not just one paragraph.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

always_hopefull said:


> Hopefully she's had enough to drink that she leaves the website address on it. Then maybe he will come here to check it out and see everything, not just one paragraph.



Lets hope...this guy is going through hell right now.


----------



## always_hopefull

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Lets hope...this guy is going through hell right now.


She is the female version of my exh, too busy looking at her hangnail to realize the devastation she has caused to her family. I pray they will be alright, with a W and a mother like that, they need all the help they can get.


----------



## sadcalifornian

Wow, I just found this thread, and I was blown away by OP's selfishness. I don't think she is capable of empathy. She thinks she is in her head, but she isn't. Some people are like that. My XWW was sort of like that. 

People like that should not engage in any exclusive relationship. She is extremely stubborn and thinks only in terms of what makes her happy. She says she would rather divorce than doing the heavy lifting some posters laid out for her. So, basically that seals the deal, I think. Such a selfish coward who commit the crime but refuse to accept the consequences. 

All the genuine advices seemed to have fallen on deaf ears, and I truly think we should just let her divorce her H as it is for the best interest of everyone. I just feel sorry for her kids.


----------



## pidge70

veebras said:


> I am not going to drop my friend who I love as a dear friend, she didnt tel him because she is my friend.. They were friends too but not like we are of course but now yeah, things arent so great between the three of us as he looks at her as a problem, aiding the situation. I have tried to explain, it's not liek she told me to do the things I did, or that she was event there, she never was.


You staying friends with her is detrimental to your marriage. You are in essence choosing her over your husband. How could he possibly trust you being with her knowing she knew about your affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> :lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
> 
> Oh..your an Aries...that explains it.


What's wrong with Aries?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Other than crying and the embarrassment of being found out, oh and him not trusting you and wanting you not going out and partying (Aja social life!). What actual consequences have you faced for cheating?

So far we know you refuse to give up the friend who enabled it and covered up for you

And? Anything else?

What have you done , other than not cheating more, what have actually done or sacrificed personally to show to him that you are going whelp him heal and that he should give you a chance again?

I think a huge problem, is that other than coming clean with the rest of the details, and going on 6 while months of restricted social life, that you haven't changed or done a thing differently than how you thought and behaved leading up to the affair. And apparently you ate good and unrepentant liar, so he doesn't trust you one bit.

It maybe less of his problem not getting over it in 6 months, as it is you blowing the chance he gave you 6 months ago to become a better person and better wife that he can trust and smile with.

Never once in your posts have said you are remorseful or ashamed, instead you trivialize it as a mistake etc. I know that is a coping mechanism to help you deal with it yourself, but the thing you are missing is that protecting you and coping for you, is a secondary lower thing than remaking you marriage and relationship with him. 

It does not mean giving up you or your life, but it does mean sacrafice from you, without complaint or negotiation or attitude. There isn't an amount you need to do, then the issue is done and forgotten, instead you both will alreays remember it, but in time he will trust you again. But only if he sees a different wife who clearly shows unwavering comittment to making the marriage work.

Frankly, you sound stubborn and inflexible at a time you need to open, super flexible, and accommodating.

He's has his world and esteem completely trashed and scared by your affair, this is going to take huge heavy lifting on your part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

veebras said:


> I do really want it to work, and yes, you mostly do sound like him - almost all the posts.
> 
> Thanks, but I dont drop friends just like that, no...
> I wouldnt. My Hb has never asked me to anyway.
> 
> I dont think that marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself. I want to be happy and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, it shouldnt be this hard, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..


The problem is being "yourself" included cheating on your husband. And that same cheater is alive and kicking.

Lets look at the facts. What do marriage vows include?

Forsaking all others? Definitely not you.

Love, honor and obey? Nope not you either.

And the two shall be ONE flesh? Can't claim that one either can you, as you shared your flesh with some scumbag.

Till death do you part? Well you might be working on this one. Because you are certainly killing your husband.....slowly. But I really don't think that is what that phrases intent is.

And we can't forget this one.

What God has brought together, let no man put asunder. I would consider you going heals up under the POSOM as putting your marriage asunder (breaking apart).

I think you just don't understand the spiritual aspect of what you did. And still don't for that matter. So you just go and be you. Its such a nice you.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw, have you told hubby who the OM was? Does the OM have a gf/wife , has hubby exposed it to them?

Bottom line, you've rug swept, only made the most modest of changes and even resented and resisted those.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

aug said:


> The straightforward simple answer is this. Once a spouse cheated in the marriage, the marriage is never going to be the same again. The innocence is gone. The trust is gone. The fidelity no longer exists.
> 
> Your husband is processing the change. He will continue to process the betrayal. His pain will lessen with time (may take years), but the memory lives forever.


Yes. You brought it upon yourself.

Also, had he not found out, would you still be in the affair? Probably so.


----------



## bryanp

Have you and your husband both been tested for STD's? Does your husband know the OM? Does the OM have a wife or girlfriend and has she been told?


----------



## Soccerfan73

You cheated on him, and you only ended it once he found out by accident. 

Then you are angry at him for being emotional about it a whole 6 months later. 

Plus you are choosing your friend, who DID help you with the affair, over him. 

The odds of this working out are not good. 

Hopefully things can work out for the both of you, but I can understand why he would file for divorce Monday morning at 8 AM.


----------



## calif_hope

This is an interesting thread!

My take on this Veribas is that you affair is what some call an "Exit Affair," an affair as I understand that is designed to purposely destroy the marriage - in your case your husband decided to stay and fight for his family - you might not beaware that you did this, I really don't see a strong desire to save your marriage.

You are key to the recovery of your marriage if that's what you really want. You will see a great number if postings on TAM from betrayed spouses who are bit doing the "Heavy Lifting," the burden if the recovery and making your marriage work us you not him. Read the threads of the many betrayed spouses on TAM will give you insight.

Having said that Ivam not sure you want recovery - you come accrues as selfish un your postings - you use "me" and "I" more that "he"..........

Also, I don't think, and I hope your wrong that you don't have empathy for your husband, his pain, and what you have to to and sacrafice to save your marriage. The burden is on you.

Look your husband really doesn't mind you having free time, trusting you will take time. The issue of the basketball game isn't about you doing your own thing is who you where doing it with.

Your husband will trigger forever in regards to your girlfriend.....she was and is an "Enemy of the Marriage" - every time he sees her, every time you communicate and spend time with her it us you pulling the scab off the wound. She is someone who betrayed him, your child and your marriage --- a true friend may have not gone to your husband but certainly broke off association with you temporary or permanently.

When found out my best friend was cheating on his wife - I told him that I was not going to run to his wife, but I was not going to cover for him, told him to not use me as cover and that I wanted no part if him while he was acting like a low class skum. No golf, no family gatherings / BBQ. I also told him if his or my wife asked me why I would lie for him. 

Simply as a true friend I wouldn't be part of his betrayal of his wife, his kids, his family, and his personal integrity and honor.

1. The burden of the recovery is on you, and you cannot dictate the timeline

2. This is not about you, it's about him...this us your fault, quit acting like a child, adult up and do the work

3. You have to go NO CONTACT with your so called friend - maybe temporary 1 year plus or forever......your continued association is part, a major part of what you are complaining about,

What's more important to you - your husband ir you friend

4. Read some TAM postings to get the perspective of the betrayed spouse, read postings from the reconciliation section.

Decide what you want and work that plan.....frankly I believe, from your postings, you wanted divorce before you made physical contact with your affair partner..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

veebras said:


> I do really want it to work, and yes, you mostly do sound like him - almost all the posts.
> 
> Thanks, but I dont drop friends just like that, no...
> I wouldnt. My Hb has never asked me to anyway.
> 
> I dont think that marriage should mean you cannot be yourself, I refuse to not be myself. I want to be happy and not have to sacrifice everything in order to do so, it shouldnt be this hard, really. Perhapos we are not meant to be..


Look regarding your friend

Try to see it this way. Sometimes we screew up so bad(In your case Galactical scale ) it could be a good idea to lay low for a while.

Try to put your friend on a hold for now,mainly because your
Husband i triggering as hell every time you hanging out with your friend. Hi is rightfully not trusting her since she new all along.
And since you had an affair it wouldent be much of a strech to think
That your friend coverd for you all a long…

Simply tell your friend for now your husband ,kid,family has to go firts for a while.So you to cant be talking and seeing eachother

For time being. If really good freind as you says she is ,she will understand..Im seriusly supraised that she hasent allready 
Dragging you out on games ,and so on.Insted of mending your marriage.


----------



## Initfortheduration

The husband seems to have acted in the only way he could, to protect himself and his mental health. The way she talks, I really hope he doesn't come back. She shows ZERO remorse or contrition. This friend is an enabler. I am sure they both had a good laugh over her cheating on her poor clueless husband.


----------



## lordmayhem

Seems like an intent to rug sweep and "get over it already, it's been six months". I know I was still triggering pretty badly and still raw at the 6 month point.


----------



## tacoma

Veebras,

The ONLY thing that will get your husband past this is dumping your friend so you have two options.

Value your marriage over anything and dump the friend
Value your friendship over your marriage and let your husband go.

You'll choose the second option.
I know because I can tell from your story and your attitude you never really valued your marriage in the first place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jen S

Has she come back? I scanned above but it looks like she's still gone. I wish she wasn't driven off. A lot of good advice here.


----------



## YupItsMe

To OP

Your very cavalier attitude and lack of patience is stunning.

Im calling narcissism on this one.

He might be better off without your unfeeling, uncaring self-centered ways.

You would be much happier following your heart without a shred of concern for the damage you cause to others. 

When I hear 6 months like you ought to get some kind of prize for enduring all his whiney crap for that long, I throw up a little.

I do admire you for hanging in there with the many disagreements others have with you including mine but I just dont get how you can be so brazen. It truly is stunning to those more sensitive to the feelings of others.


----------



## Confused_and_bitter

OP won't come back because she didn't get the support and validation she was looking for instead she got real giant doses of the truth and when one knows they are doing wrong what is it that they hate the most? The truth! She may read the posts and keep telling herself that none of us know what we are talking about because how dare we suggest she think of her H! Why we should encourage her to stay with the toxic friend, rug sweep, and hell you know what get on with another affair, since according to another poster who said that infidelity should not be punished, sees it as a way to save your marriage...and of course he needs to just "get over it" when she feels he has grieved enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

pidge70 said:


> What's wrong with Aries?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Nothing I just found it funny..


----------



## morituri

Frankly I don't see much hope in the marriage surviving. We know she has chosen her friendship with the woman who enabled her affair over her betrayed husband. More comments to her are nothing but an exercise in futility.


----------



## marksaysay

Just read through this entire thread and all I can say is wow! I wondered at first if this was my WW. That is an AWESOME friend!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantePe

veebras said:


> I try not to fight back, and to go through the motions of what I have descrived in this thread and to tell him I understand but that we need to move forward, etc, I even agreed to counseling if he could set it up.
> 
> The friend is my Bf, a female. Whom he hates because she knew abotu the affair,. So particularly, anytime I am with her he is not happy.


She knew about the affair and did nothing on his behalf? She's bad for the marriage. She helped facilitate the affair by doing nothing. That's how he views her and rightfully so.

See, my husband's "friends" excuses were that they didn't know me enough to tell me he was "d!cking" around on me behind my back. I call bullsh!t. If it had been me who say a friend's spouse messing around behind their backs you bet I'd have told that betrayed spouse (evidence in hand as well) whether I knew them or not.

Sorry but it's a link to the past indiscretions and it needs to be removed from the equation. She is a threat in his eyes, she knew, she did nothing what's to say she wouldn't do it again if you did it again. To him, it's just another form of betrayal.


----------



## JustaJerk

Let me tell you something. If my friend did this to me- as in helping him out(enabling)- I'd be angry as hell. If he's going to do his sh!t, he better count me out. I real friend wouln't allow you to put yourself in a situation where your marriage(livelihood) is being compromised in any way, form, or fashion. To be honest, I don't know if I'd tell on him, but I would let him know that I won't put up with his antics in while in my presence.


----------



## CantePe

JustaJerk said:


> Let me tell you something. If my friend did this to me- as in helping him out(enabling)- I'd be angry as hell. If he's going to do his sh!t, he better count me out. I real friend wouln't allow you to put yourself in a situation where your marriage(livelihood) is being compromised in any way, form, or fashion. To be honest, I don't know if I'd tell on him, but I would let him know that I won't put up with his antics in while in my presence.


I must be a bytch because I *HAVE* "tattled" on someone for messing around behind their spouse's back. I don't tolerate that kind of behavior and I've dropped friendships for it (in fact I've dropped lifetime friendships for it).

I don't want people like that around me with such a low moral compass. If they can condone it in their own relationships then they are a threat to MY marriage and family. Just like all his "friends" were (they were dropped like hot rocks as friends immediately, part of my NC requirement - he tried to resist at first but it was too bad so sad, they helped to enable him by doing nothing).

It's really true ..that saying: "True evil exists when good men and women do nothing"


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

The OP won't be back because she is a coward, like all cheaters. It's been six months, get over it already. Amazing.
I have more respect for murderers than cheaters. At least with a killer, you know what their intentions are. With a cheater? They lie, gaslight, lie some more, pretend all is well, claim to love you, they lie some more, they rob their partner of any say in the relationship, lie even more and eventually when confronted.....they continue to lie and trickle truth to the point where the partner literally feels they are going insane. Then in the case of OP, toss in the butt nugget of "It's been six months, get over it already".

COWARDS TO THE CORE. DON'T MAKE ME FEEL BAD FOR WHAT I HAVE DONE, JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY.


----------



## tacoma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Then in the case of OP, toss in the butt nugget of "It's been six months, get over it already".


:rofl:

Sometimes I love you Bright Eyes.


----------



## Rainbow_Dazed

Just wanted to say to the OP that I don't think you are a selfish, narcististic person based on what I've read. I think your question of _"how long should I suffer and what kind of behaviour should I accept from my husband because of what I did" _is valid. I'm sure everyone here would agree that if you're husband was physically abusing you, it'd be not acceptable. Based on what you wrote, it felt to me that you're husbands actions might be mentally abusive. Though I could be interperting too. I don't think mental abuse is any more acceptable than physical. You made a big, big mistake which might cost you your marriage and gravely affect the future of your children, but even that does not justify you being treated abusively. Nothing does.

I think that if you're both committed on working through this, then maybe there is a chance. I know couples that have made it through infidelity. But if one or both of you are not willing to do whatever it takes to get through this, then it might be a lost cause. Based on what you wrote I don't think you are committed 100% to healing at this time. Is there something stopping you from doing this? You wrote about your husband outbursts and that he's now MIA. It made me think that maybe he isn't yet sure wether he is willing to give you a chance either - and it might make it harder for you to give your 100% to your relationship either if your husband is acting like an out of control dufus right now. 

I think that many of the posters before me have painted a good picture of what your husband might be going through, and it's obvious that he is hurting deeply. But he too needs to get his act together and act like an responsible adult and own up for his actions. And make it possible for you two to heal. In my opinion that is. Two wrongs does not equal right.


----------



## JustaJerk

> I must be a bytch because I HAVE "tattled" on someone for messing around behind their spouse's back. I don't tolerate that kind of behavior and I've dropped friendships for it (in fact I've dropped lifetime friendships for it).


I might be wrong, but its different between men and women concerning "tattling." There's an unspoken code. Although we don't have to tolerate it, its a different thing to sn!tch. Just sayin'.


----------



## madwoman

To the OP.

You need to send your husband to this site. You my dear are trying to make him the bad guy in this, and you seem to want him to just move on. This is by everything I have read that you wrote.

He wants you to take responsibility but you havent'. There is another thread on her, and I'll see if I can find it. A woman who cheated, and is making amends with her husband. She is the picture of remorse. There are specific steps you must take to heal your marraige and it appears you are unwilling. 

You seem to point to his "abuse" as a justification for what you did. It is wholly seperate from the responsibility you hold for destroying him. Abuse is never justified. But neither is cheating.

Send your husband to this site. There are many here that can call from experience what got them through.


----------



## Jen S

Rainbow_Dazed said:


> Just wanted to say to the OP that I don't think you are a selfish, narcististic person based on what I've read. I think your question of _"how long should I suffer and what kind of behaviour should I accept from my husband because of what I did" _is valid. I'm sure everyone here would agree that if you're husband was physically abusing you, it'd be not acceptable. Based on what you wrote, it felt to me that you're husbands actions might be mentally abusive. Though I could be interperting too. I don't think mental abuse is any more acceptable than physical. You made a big, big mistake which might cost you your marriage and gravely affect the future of your children, but even that does not justify you being treated abusively. Nothing does.
> 
> I think that if you're both committed on working through this, then maybe there is a chance. I know couples that have made it through infidelity. But if one or both of you are not willing to do whatever it takes to get through this, then it might be a lost cause. Based on what you wrote I don't think you are committed 100% to healing at this time. Is there something stopping you from doing this? You wrote about your husband outbursts and that he's now MIA. It made me think that maybe he isn't yet sure wether he is willing to give you a chance either - and it might make it harder for you to give your 100% to your relationship either if your husband is acting like an out of control dufus right now.
> 
> I think that many of the posters before me have painted a good picture of what your husband might be going through, and it's obvious that he is hurting deeply. But he too needs to get his act together and act like an responsible adult and own up for his actions. And make it possible for you two to heal. In my opinion that is. Two wrongs does not equal right.


I really agree with this. There are two sides to all of these stories. Always.


----------



## YupItsMe

JustaJerk said:


> I might be wrong, but its different between men and women concerning "tattling." There's an unspoken code. Although we don't have to tolerate it, its a different thing to sn!tch. Just sayin'.


I despise this type of thinking and dont subscribe to it. 

Penn State is a good example. Those kids were someones son, brother, grandson, nephew, etc. 

Your code is ignorant, reckless and causes life long damage so your buddies can think you are still cool. 

Thats not cool. Its cowardly. Taking on an army to make things right is whats cool. 

Sorry. Your type of thinking makes me want to vomit.

Ill invite you to rethink it.


----------



## JustaJerk

> Speak for yourself.
> 
> Individuals have a code of ethics or they do not.
> 
> I'd turn in my twin brother if he were cheating.





> I despise this type of thinking and dont subscribe to it.
> 
> Penn State is a good example. Those kids were someones son, brother, grandson, nephew, etc.
> 
> Your code is ignorant, reckless and causes life long damage so your buddies can think you are still cool.
> 
> Thats not cool. Its cowardly. Taking on an army to make things right is whats cool.
> 
> Sorry. Your type of thinking makes me want to vomit.
> 
> Ill invite you to rethink it.


I didn't say I agree with it. I said that its out there. And please, don't relate what I said to the Penn State issue. I resent the fact that you even mentioned it pertaining to my response. That is child abuse and I do not, nor have I condoned this in any of my posts.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

JustaJerk said:


> I might be wrong, but its different between men and women concerning "tattling." There's an unspoken code. Although we don't have to tolerate it, its a different thing to sn!tch. Just sayin'.


How is it different? My own twin cheated on her fiance and I gave her two weeks to come clean. She didn't, I did. We aren't all cackling b!tches.


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## JustaJerk

^Like I said- Its out there. If you were to take poll, most men, if not the majority would say they wouldn't tell on their friends... I'm willing to bet my life on it.


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## zsu234

He/She/It's gone!


----------



## tacoma

JustaJerk said:


> ^Like I said- Its out there. If you were to take poll, most men, if not the majority would say they wouldn't tell on their friends... I'm willing to bet my life on it.


Jerk is correct.

However I`m going to avoid the resulting man bashing by stating that I wouldn`t tell on anyone without a personal reason to do so.

It`s not just a guy thing with me.


----------



## JustaJerk

> My quibble with you was in presenting yourself as speaking for men. You represent yourself in being quiet about infidelity amongst your friends and family members, because--hey--men do not snitch?
> 
> This is not a universal way for men. It's your life, not mine.


Where in most post did I say I spoke for all men? If people weren't quite about it then, why isn't there a plethora of individuals coming out of the woodwork informing their cheating friends spouses' they were cheating. Most people don't want to get involved in other peoples problems. They don't want to be the catalyst for them eventually breaking up. You guys took offense beacuse I used the word "snitch." Well, that's how men percieve this, like it or not.


----------



## EleGirl

Rainbow_Dazed said:


> Just wanted to say to the OP that I don't think you are a selfish, narcististic person based on what I've read. I think your question of _"how long should I suffer and what kind of behaviour should I accept from my husband because of what I did" _is valid. I'm sure everyone here would agree that if you're husband was physically abusing you, it'd be not acceptable. Based on what you wrote, it felt to me that you're husbands actions might be mentally abusive. Though I could be interperting too. I don't think mental abuse is any more acceptable than physical. You made a big, big mistake which might cost you your marriage and gravely affect the future of your children, but even that does not justify you being treated abusively. Nothing does.
> 
> I think that if you're both committed on working through this, then maybe there is a chance. I know couples that have made it through infidelity. But if one or both of you are not willing to do whatever it takes to get through this, then it might be a lost cause. Based on what you wrote I don't think you are committed 100% to healing at this time. Is there something stopping you from doing this? You wrote about your husband outbursts and that he's now MIA. It made me think that maybe he isn't yet sure wether he is willing to give you a chance either - and it might make it harder for you to give your 100% to your relationship either if your husband is acting like an out of control dufus right now.
> 
> I think that many of the posters before me have painted a good picture of what your husband might be going through, and it's obvious that he is hurting deeply. But he too needs to get his act together and act like an responsible adult and own up for his actions. And make it possible for you two to heal. In my opinion that is. Two wrongs does not equal right.


I agree with you that it sounds llike her husband is being verbally abusive right now. If that is what is going on. She has a legitimate complaint about that. I even posted some ideas on how she could start to handle it. 

She also said that before the affair her husband was seldom around. And now since the affair he's hardly around still. Though I'd like to know the number of hours a week he is him as this is subjective.

If she truely cared to save her marriage, there are things that she could do to help her husband get beyond this, to stop the verbal attacks, etc.

She did not seem to pick up on any advice on how to handle this.


----------



## CantePe

JustaJerk said:


> ^Like I said- Its out there. If you were to take poll, most men, if not the majority would say they wouldn't tell on their friends... I'm willing to bet my life on it.


Well you just did bet your life on it hypothetically. All his "friends" were female except two. The group was about 10 to 14 people. One woman even went so far as to say "you should have protected your relationship with OW better than that".

The two men fell away from the group way before I found out and only reappeared after crap hit the proverbial fan. Only for the fact to back up the facts and tell it like it is and supported ME after the fact. Still not good enough for me though and the whole group was dropped as friends.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

JustaJerk said:


> ^Like I said- Its out there. If you were to take poll, most men, if not the majority would say they wouldn't tell on their friends... I'm willing to bet my life on it.


Because they are cowards themselves? I cannot think of a more disgusting man than one who is so involved with his buddies that the fact that they are cheating is something of an "honor code". It isn't honor at all. It is cowardice and is the backbone of cheaters.

A "bro" code for crappy behavior is an example of the lowest common denominator. Idiots who need the approval of other men to prove themselves and in turn don't speak of any cheating. 

Most men wouldn't tattle on other men. You are correct. They are sheeple. It is the rare few who have a moral code and "tattle".


----------



## EleGirl

tacoma said:


> Jerk is correct.
> 
> However I`m going to avoid the resulting man bashing by stating that I wouldn`t tell on anyone without a personal reason to do so.
> 
> It`s not just a guy thing with me.


What would you consider a personal reason to do so? Just curious.


----------



## JustaJerk

> Well you just did bet your life on it hypothetically. All his "friends" were female except two. The group was about 10 to 14 people. One woman even went so far as to say "you should have protected your relationship with OW better than that".


If you've EVER taken a stats course, you'd know you need more people than that, as well as peolple from different walks of life to get a better assesment of whatever situation you're trying to guage.


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## JustaJerk

> Because they are cowards themselves? I cannot think of a more disgusting man than one who is so involved with his buddies that the fact that they are cheating is something of an "honor code". It isn't honor at all. It is cowardice and is the backbone of cheaters.
> 
> A "bro" code for crappy behavior is an example of the lowest common denominator. Idiots who need the approval of other men to prove themselves and in turn don't speak of any cheating.
> 
> Most men wouldn't tattle on other men. You are correct. They are sheeple. It is the rare few who have a moral code and "tattle".


I'm just the messenger here. There _is_ a "bro" code whether you like it or not- IT'S THE TRUTH! Why am _*I*_ getting bashed for for telling the truth. Not that I can't take.


----------



## CantePe

JustaJerk said:


> If you've EVER taken a stats course, you'd know you need more people than that, as well as peolple from different walks of life to get a better assesment of whatever situation you're trying to guage.


Stats are always skewed in some way or manner to benefit a research paper somehow (my personal opinion and experience).

I only meant that not ALL situations follow the curve of statistics, more often then not I see a lot of personal experience that don't follow that "stats curve" at all.

Can't lump it into one thing when you are mixing apples and oranges. That's all I meant by hypothetically betting a life on it.

Short answer: It's not always the case.

BTW: Keep your soul, I have my own (trying to lighten the mood).


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## JustaJerk

No matter how skewed they are... stats are AWAYS used to guage whatever is at issue. Or am I mistaken?

And please don't come back at me with "_there are lies damned lies and statistics_" bit. So cliche'.


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## Jellybeans

Did you guys scare her off?


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## tacoma

EleGirl said:


> What would you consider a personal reason to do so? Just curious.


If the infidelity affected my family or someone I loved I would take a proactive role in ending it in some way or another depending on the situation.

If the infidelity involves mere acquaintances or co-workers I keep my mouth shut.


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## pidge70

She got scared off before I even posted. So...wasn't me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

pidge70 said:


> She got scared off before I even posted. So...wasn't me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:


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## JustaJerk

Again, where did I say I spoke for all men. I don't what you're getting at.

Anyway, I said my piece. Like it or not. You take what you want and discard the rest. PEACE!


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## EleGirl

JustaJerk said:


> I'm just the messenger here. There _is_ a "bro" code whether you like it or not- IT'S THE TRUTH! Why am _*I*_ getting bashed for for telling the truth. Not that I can't take.


From my experience, most men and women would never tell a someone that their spouse is cheating on them. It's not just a male thing.


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## EleGirl

tacoma said:


> If the infidelity affected my family or someone I loved I would take a proactive role in ending it in some way or another depending on the situation.
> 
> If the infidelity involves mere acquaintances or co-workers I keep my mouth shut.


I would tend to agree with that. Before telling a spouse, I think it's important to know how that person would react and to have some knowledge of the marriage. People have been killed or beaten to a pulp when their spouse found out.


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## Confused_and_bitter

With the whole friends don't tell issue(I would quote but seems I can't from my cell) I would be inclined to agree to a point. H's EA was out there and my brothers saw it they didn't say anything till my H TOLD them about his dates with OW because he was strongly under the impression that my brothers wouldn't tell because they were his friends. He got that impression because H had bein lying to me about his smoking and drug use for 3 years but my brothers were eyewitnesses to all his lying and because they didn't say anything then I suppose he got confident and told them about OW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YupItsMe

JustaJerk said:


> don't relate what I said to the Penn State issue. I resent the fact that you even mentioned it pertaining to my response. That is child abuse and I do not, nor have I condoned this in any of my posts.


Please accept my apology.

I clearly and in error read more into your post than you intentioned that silence is a common choice among men when wrongs in general are committed. I understand after reading the previous post and your objection to my comment, that is not what you meant.

Beyond my apology, I do disagree with most of what you wrote and can clearly see how it appears you are speaking for our entire gender. 

Your use of stats is also sloppy IMO.

My coillege room mate was a dirt bag and he was POSITIVE everyone else shared his values. I had a two business partners that thought the same. They were all dead wrong like you are.

That assumption that I will check my integrity at the door for the sake of a buddy code is what I resent. Some find out the hard way. You dont ask others to do so and they shouldnt expect you to either if you are a man of integrity. 

We can disagree about that. Snitch and tattle are the labels liars place on hinorable men they dont allow lairs and theives any room to slither away under some phrat boy code of ethics that has no place among men of personal integrity.

I did note you say you didnt agree with it. Im glad to hear that.


----------



## Numb-badger

I once told my boss (who'd arrived with a reputation for frollicking on with female co-workers) that if I discovered any evidence or caught him, his missus would find out there and then.
We had a good working relationship too, I was just stating my ground rules.
I discovered two years after I'd left that he and a co worker had indeed had some 'sessions' together and they'd both made damn sure they'd covered their tracks so that I wouldn't hear about it.
Didn't make a difference though. The girl who told me also told his wife and he was in the 5hit anyhoo.


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## baltimorebarry

Of course there are consequences but does that mean going forward someone should be treated unfairly. Nobody is perfect and cheating is a reality of life. When needs are not met in a relationship, infidelity will most likely happen.


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## EleGirl

baltimorebarry said:


> Of course there are consequences but does that mean going forward someone should be treated unfairly. Nobody is perfect and cheating is a reality of life. When needs are not met in a relationship, infidelity will most likely happen.


I agree. The betrayed spouse has a responsibility to not be abusive of the wayward spouse. 

Unfortunately, it's hard to assess on a forum if the OP's husband is truly being abusive.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

baltimorebarry said:


> Of course there are consequences but does that mean going forward someone should be treated unfairly. Nobody is perfect and cheating is a reality of life. When needs are not met in a relationship, infidelity will most likely happen.



What specific lack of need fulfillment will lead to infidelity? I am very curious, as I am sure many in the forum are as well. I here this bit of tripe being said all the time...so please what are they exactly?

Which "need" if left unfulfilled will press my spouse to cheat on me? You know...instead of talking to me about it? 


:scratchhead:


----------



## EleGirl

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> What specific lack of need fulfillment will lead to infidelity? I am very curious, as I am sure many in the forum are as well. I here this bit of tripe being said all the time...so please what are they exactly?
> 
> Which "need" if left unfulfilled will press my spouse to cheat on me? You know...instead of talking to me about it?
> 
> 
> :scratchhead:


When a significant amount of a person's needs are not being met, that person becomes more susceptible to attention from someone outside the marriage.


----------



## I_Will_Survive

EleGirl said:


> When a significant amount of a person's needs are not being met, that person becomes more susceptible to attention from someone outside the marriage.


Oh, I don't know. 

Turns out my husband was cheating on me for years, while I was stuck without an emotional OR physical partner.

That's a load of cr*p, to blame the victim for the abuse. I had attention, people that I could have flirted with, maybe more. I didn't go there because I wanted my marriage to work. I begged my husband for sex, literally. In bed and out. 

I HATE the "not meeting his needs" excuse!!


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## Badblood

Elegirl and Baltimore, so you are saying that if some of my woman's needs aren't being met, that she will forget all of her upbringing, education, past love, and marital vows and become a lying, deceitful, cheater? Is that the way it is? When things go wrong, instead of trying to fix the problem, you just bail out and become an adulterer. I see.


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## Badblood

That's what it really is , I will survive, just another excuse.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

EleGirl said:


> When a significant amount of a person's needs are not being met, that person becomes more susceptible to attention from someone outside the marriage.



Ok...which needs? Which ones? What are the ones that couldn't have been dealt with by communicating the problem?

Come on...if you are going to throw out the "needs" excuse...please back it up.


----------



## EleGirl

I_Will_Survive said:


> Oh, I don't know.
> 
> Turns out my husband was cheating on me for years, while I was stuck without an emotional OR physical partner.
> 
> That's a load of cr*p, to blame the victim for the abuse. I had attention, people that I could have flirted with, maybe more. I didn't go there because I wanted my marriage to work. I begged my husband for sex, literally. In bed and out.
> 
> I HATE the "not meeting his needs" excuse!!


There is not one type of cheater nor is there one type of spouse.

I too have gone years is a marriage with most of my needs not met and not cheated. But some people are not able to.

There are also people who cheat because they feel it they are entitled, or all men to do, or whatever excuse they want to use. This type of cheater will cheat even if they have the most wonderful spouse who is meeting all of their needs plus some.


----------



## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Elegirl and Baltimore, so you are saying that if some of my woman's needs aren't being met, that she will forget all of her upbringing, education, past love, and marital vows and become a lying, deceitful, cheater?.


I'm not saying that everyone will cheat if their needs are not met. I'm saying that some people become more susecptable 



Badblood said:


> Is that the way it is? When things go wrong, instead of trying to fix the problem, you just bail out and become an adulterer. I see.


This is apprently a fact of human nature. Some people become more vunerable. Say a man whose wife refuses him sex, she insults him all the time, belittles him, etc. When he tries to talk to his wife about fixing their marriage she won't talk about it. She just belittles him more.

And there's a woman at work who is in a similar marraige. So the two of them start to talk about their marriages.. over time they become each other's support system, an EA grows and eventually a PA. This sort of affair is pretty typical.


----------



## Saffron

Wow. Calling posters on an infidelity forum "freaks" is beyond low, I find it very offensive. Many of us have suffered emotional trauma that will take years to heal from. We post here to help others deal with the devastation of infidelity and cope with our own experiences. Being called a "freak" is like getting a slap in the face after you've already been beaten beyond recognition. I feel bad for her husband. He's not ready to let her go, but he really should.


----------



## EleGirl

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Ok...which needs? Which ones? What are the ones that couldn't have been dealt with by communicating the problem?
> 
> Come on...if you are going to throw out the "needs" excuse...please back it up.


What kind of needs cannot be dealt with by communicating about the problem? That’s not the issue. The issue is that some spouses will not respond to any kind of communication and will not meet their spouses needs no matter what. Why I have no clue.. but this apparently happens a lot.
Look at these forums, there are people here who have told their spouse very clearly what they need, a sex life, date nights, etc. Their spouse could care less.
You do know that there are spouses, male and female, who do not give a rat’s arse about their spouse’s feelings, needs or anything else. I’m sure you know this. I’ve seen it. I’m sure you have too. But the spouse who is not treated well stays because they think it’s best for their children. Or because they truly believe that divorce is not an option. Or maybe because they are trying to work on their marriage and truly believe that one day their spouse will see the light and start working on the marriage.

I gave a scenario in the post above of where this can happen.

How about in the case of a woman whose husband loses his job, say in a corporate downsizing. He has some kind of an emotional breakdown. So he spends the next 10 years sitting in front of a computer playing computer games. She becomes the sole bread winner, raises their children, cleans the house, does the yard.. with no help from this prize, no love, nothing. He is not meeting even one of her needs. She tries talking to him, she tries everything.. Counseling, doctors, etc.. .nothing. 


There are marriages in which a spouse gets none of their need met. I would leave the marriage. But some end up in a affair before that happens.


----------



## Jen S

EleGirl said:


> When a significant amount of a person's needs are not being met, that person becomes more susceptible to attention from someone outside the marriage.


This is absolutely true. I've seen this happen.


----------



## morituri

And then there are the spouses who allow cross marital boundaries and start slowly becoming attracted to another man/woman until they cross the final boundary and have an affair - even though their marriages are happy and healthy. Dr Shirley Glass PhD showed how easily folks who never thought they would cheat on their spouses, were able to simply by slowly crossing marital boundaries. And most of these people had good marriages.


----------



## EleGirl

morituri said:


> And then there are the spouses who allow cross marital boundaries and start slowly becoming attracted to another man/woman until they cross the final boundary and have an affair - even though their marriages are happy and healthy. Dr Shirley Glass PhD showed how easily folks who never thought they would cheat on their spouses, were able to simply by slowly crossing marital boundaries. And most of these people had good marriages.


I agree with this as well. I've seen this happen too. 

There is not one type of cheater or one reason for cheating. If there were then we'd be able to devise a way to end all cheating.


----------



## Jen S

morituri said:


> And then there are the spouses who allow cross marital boundaries and start slowly becoming attracted to another man/woman until they cross the final boundary and have an affair - even though their marriages are happy and healthy. Dr Shirley Glass PhD showed how easily folks who never thought they would cheat on their spouses, were able to simply by slowly crossing marital boundaries. And most of these people had good marriages.


This is horrible. Why does this happen? It's awful.


----------



## EleGirl

Jen S said:


> This is horrible. Why does this happen? It's awful.


I can think of two reasons... one is that there are people who are just wired to cheat.. it's mostly something they have learned. My ex-husband was like this. His father openly cheated on his mother, even bring his other woman home for dinner with his wife cooking. As our marriage progressed it became clear that he thought he was entitled to cheat... that all men cheat... of course he hid it from me so he knew it was not right.


As for poeple, even people with good marriages getting attached to someone. Most people are not aware of how easily be bond with others, especially those of the opposite sex. We end up in situations in which we get close. Maybe we start talking out our personal life at work and the other person shows a lot of sympathy. Maybe the other person has hobby or other interests and the spouse does not share that. 

I've heard it described as survival mechanism that humans have... a long time ago spouses died a lot... women from child birth, men from hunting and fighting. So for humans to survive they had to be able to form new family units quickly. 


Don't know for sure. But it does seem to be part of our nature.

This is why a lot of married people try to limit their social involvement with members of the opposite sex.


----------



## morituri

EleGirl said:


> As for people, even people with good marriages getting attached to someone. *Most people are not aware of how easily be bond with others, especially those of the opposite sex.* We end up in situations in which we get close. Maybe we start talking out our personal life at work and the other person shows a lot of sympathy. Maybe the other person has hobby or other interests and the spouse does not share that.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Well said!


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

EleGirl said:


> What kind of needs cannot be dealt with by communicating about the problem? That’s not the issue. The issue is that some spouses will not respond to any kind of communication and will not meet their spouses needs no matter what. Why I have no clue.. but this apparently happens a lot.
> Look at these forums, there are people here who have told their spouse very clearly what they need, a sex life, date nights, etc. Their spouse could care less.
> You do know that there are spouses, male and female, who do not give a rat’s arse about their spouse’s feelings, needs or anything else. I’m sure you know this. I’ve seen it. I’m sure you have too. But the spouse who is not treated well stays because they think it’s best for their children. Or because they truly believe that divorce is not an option. Or maybe because they are trying to work on their marriage and truly believe that one day their spouse will see the light and start working on the marriage.
> 
> I gave a scenario in the post above of where this can happen.
> 
> How about in the case of a woman whose husband loses his job, say in a corporate downsizing. He has some kind of an emotional breakdown. So he spends the next 10 years sitting in front of a computer playing computer games. She becomes the sole bread winner, raises their children, cleans the house, does the yard.. with no help from this prize, no love, nothing. He is not meeting even one of her needs. She tries talking to him, she tries everything.. Counseling, doctors, etc.. .nothing.
> 
> 
> There are marriages in which a spouse gets none of their need met. I would leave the marriage. But some end up in a affair before that happens.


Ok..now your talking. 

I can see your point...although they could still divorce and not cheat...I don't buy this "stuck" in a marriage mentality.

Although, It has been my experience that when someone throws out the needs idea...they are more then likely just using it as an excuse. The plots you lined out above would fit into the category of neglecting needs...but don't you think that what you describe sounds more like completely ignoring the marriage? Not so much just neglecting a couple of needs.


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## Badblood

Elegirl, there is always an option. That's what free will is all about. Regardless of the "needs", you always have the option to cheat or not, to steal or not, to kill or not. That is called morality.


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## EleGirl

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Ok..now your talking.
> I can see your point...although they could still divorce and not cheat...I don't buy this "stuck" in a marriage mentality.
> Although, It has been my experience that when someone throws out the needs idea...they are more then likely just using it as an excuse. The plots you lined out above would fit into the category of neglecting needs...but don't you think that what you describe sounds more like completely ignoring the marriage? Not so much just neglecting a couple of needs.


Both of the cases I gave are from real life situations of people I know. Not meeting someone’s needs is ‘neglecting needs’. 

In the cases I gave, the guy had an affair about 10 years ago.. about half way through the marriage. He ended the affair. His wife did find out about it after it the affair had ended. But he’s not cheated since. Now that they kids are grown they are getting a divorce.

In the case of the woman I told about, she has not cheated. She’s looking for a way out of the marriage. But I have to be honest; if she had cheated I would not be so harsh on her. 

I could give more examples from people I know whose marriages even look like model marriages from the outside but are far from it. We see it all over this forum. How many threads do we see here about women who refuse to be intimate with their husbands? There are more men then some realize who refuse intimacy with their wives as well. Threads about spouse who are dying inside because their spouse will not spend any time with them at all… no dates, not time to talk, nothing. Or how about people who work so many hours that there is nothing left for the spouse who keeps begging them for time.

Yes there are people who cheat and then just use the needs thing as an excuse. But there are also people who are so hurt and neglected in their marriage that it’s no wonder they end up going outside their marriage… it’s not the right thing to do… but it does seem that some do go down that path.


----------



## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Elegirl, there is always an option. That's what free will is all about. Regardless of the "needs", you always have the option to cheat or not, to steal or not, to kill or not. That is called morality.


I'm not saying that having an affair is the right choice. I'm saying that some people end up in affairs because of having some serious needs neglected. 

It's a fact of life. And it's why anyone who values their marriage should not just assume they can work 24/7, neglect their spouse and still have a marriage.


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## Badblood

Elegirl, you are presenting infidelity as a viable option to correct a bad marriage, when it clearly is not, any more than murder is a viable option for road rage. People do not have affairs because they are neglected, people have affairs because they don't know how to correct the neglect in a viable manner. The choice to cheat isn't made by the perpetrator of the neglect, it is made by the person being neglected, so it is their moral failing, not the neglector's. Your examples are skewed in favor of the cheater. I don't , for a minute , believe that cheating happens in good marriages. On the surface, they may be good, but if there was not a problem, there would not have been cheating. If a husband/wife abuses his/her partner (neglect being a form of abuse) There are three viable choices for the abused partner, end the marriage or fix the problem, or accept the marriage as it is. Remembering always, that marriage is a merger of two free agents, not a contract of servitude.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Elegirl, you are presenting infidelity as a viable option to correct a bad marriage, when it clearly is not, any more than murder is a viable option for road rage.


No I am not presenting infidelity as a viable option. I am talking about why some people end up in affairs. You are twisting what I am saying. 


Badblood said:


> People do not have affairs because they are neglected, people have affairs because they don't know how to correct the neglect in a viable manner. The choice to cheat isn't made by the perpetrator of the neglect, it is made by the person being neglected, so it is their moral failing, not the neglector's.


A person who neglect’s their spouse’s needs also has a very serious moral failing. If one’s spouse tells them that something is seriously missing and they are neglected, and this is not addressed then there is a moral failure on the part of the neglector.


Badblood said:


> Your examples are skewed in favor of the cheater.


The examples I gave are real example of situations that I am aware of. They are real. I was asked for examples of marriages in which people have cheated because their needs were not met. I gave some. I could give many more.


Badblood said:


> I don't , for a minute , believe that cheating happens in good marriages. On the surface, they may be good, but if there was not a problem, there would not have been cheating. If a husband/wife abuses his/her partner (neglect being a form of abuse) There are three viable choices for the abused partner, end the marriage or fix the problem, or accept the marriage as it is. Remembering always, that marriage is a merger of two free agents, not a contract of servitude.


I agree with the above. However humans are flawed and humans do some pretty stupid things sometimes… cheating being one of them. You might be morally perfect. The fast majority of people are not. People fail sometimes.


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## Badblood

Elegirl, once again, the examples you have given are biased by your inclusion of them, whether they really happened or not, and they illustrate what I'm trying to get at, because they show that both cheaters did not know how to deal with their bad marriages in a viable manner, and because they had bad morals , they cheated. And my point remains the same, a bad marriage, Regardless of who is at fault , isn't an excuse for infidelity,it is an excuse for divorce.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Elegirl, once again, the examples you have given are biased by your inclusion of them, whether they really happened or not, and they illustrate what I'm trying to get at, because they show that both cheaters did not know how to deal with their bad marriages in a viable manner, and because they had bad morals , they cheated. And my point remains the same, a bad marriage, Regardless of who is at fault , isn't an excuse for infidelity,it is an excuse for divorce.


Hm... one more time. I did not say there is an excuse for cheating. I said that humans are flawed and thus some cheat.

I also believe that the spouses who did not cheat, the ones who neglected their spouses are morally deficient as well. 

Once again, humans are not perfect... all humans are flawed.


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## Badblood

I truly feel that by espousing this OP's narcissistic behavior, you are doing more harm than good. She will never realize the extent of the damage she has caused, if you continue to make excuses for her. You are being as harmful to her marriage as her "friend", who helped her conceal the affair.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> I truly feel that by espousing this OP's narcissistic behavior, you are doing more harm than good. She will never realize the extent of the damage she has caused, if you continue to make excuses for her. You are being as harmful to her marriage as her "friend", who helped her conceal the affair.


I am not espousing the OP's narcissistic behavior. If you read through the thread I told her a list of things that she had to do. One of them was to give up her friends... I was the first person on this thread to tell her that she had to give up her friend.

You are being obtuse and not understanding what I am saying.

And you are out of line telling me that I am harming her marriage. 

YOu and I will simply have to agree to disagree. But personal attacks are not acceptable.


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## Rainbow_Dazed

Badblood said:


> Elegirl, there is always an option. That's what free will is all about. Regardless of the "needs", you always have the option to cheat or not, to steal or not, to kill or not. That is called morality.


Somewhere earlier in this thread some posters told the OP that she'll be wrecking her childrens future with divorce and laid down some statistics about how divorce affects children. There are many long term studies about how divorce influences children and those studies lay it out very clearly that a divorce often has a huge impact on the children. 

Based on what I know about the people close to me who have had an affair, some have wanted to preserve the marriage for the sake of children, and felt that they had failed in fixing what was wrong in their current relationship. They saw protecting their children being morally more valuable than honoring their marriage wovs. I don't personally agree with that logic, since by having an affair they all created a situation which could've backfired and hurt their children even more (as it ended up doing in all but one situation I know of). And most importantly they hurt the person they atleast once loved and respected very deeply in the process. 

But I guess to some extend I understand the flawed logic. In my eyes these people have all been in an desperate situation with not enough tools to do what is right. And they listened to their own logic and it failed them. Human logic can do that, and often does (that's what gambling is based on aswell - flawed logic). They made horrible stupid mistakes and in some cases wrecked what they thought they were protecting. We people are flawed and we do unbelievably stupid things from time to time. 

I've done my share of stupid things, and I'm sure there's yet more to come for me. I have no illusions that my partner wouldn't **** up somewhere along either. When either one of us ****s up, we'll do our best to deal with it and see if we can pick up the pieces and continue our life together. So far that's worked, but there might come a time when either one ****s up beyond repair. That is reality as I see it. We both have our baggage and our imperfect childhoods (as I think everyone has), and we try to learn as we go ahead how to be good partners and how to build a solid relationship. The roadmap we have is missing pieces and has plenty of outdated info, but we try to fill in what needs to be filled as we go along. And we hope for the best.


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## Badblood

Yes I get it people are flawed and some spouses are neglected, OK I get it. Your posts though imply that the OP's husband's treatment of her is the CAUSE of her problems, instead of her own narcissistic behavior.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Yes I get it people are flawed and some spouses are neglected, OK I get it. Your posts though imply that the OP's husband's treatment of her is the CAUSE of her problems, instead of her own narcissistic behavior.


Plese show me the post in which I told the OP that her husband's neglect caused her problem. 

I agree that she sounds like a narcissist. I doubt that she has ever truely cared for her husband from the things she said.


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## Badblood

Rainbow Dazed, all children from troubled homes will have problems, whether there is a divorce or not. It is not the divorce , per se , that causes the problems it is the family troubles that causes the problems. In many cases, (parental abuse, for example) divorce will actually help the children , far more than harm them. It has been my experience, that children are used as an excuse to keep a marriage together, by one or the other spouse, to avoid having to face their own individual issues.


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## Badblood

EleGirl said:


> Plese show me the post in which I told the OP that her husband's neglect caused her problem.
> 
> I agree that she sounds like a narcissist. I doubt that she has ever truely cared for her husband from the things she said.


In your first post, by implication. And at last we can agree on something, I too feel that she doesn't know what love is. I never personally attacked you, but I feel that your type of reasoning is enabling, instead of helpful. My opinion, only.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> In your first post, by implication. And at last we can agree on something, I too feel that she doesn't know what love is. I never personally attacked you, but I feel that your type of reasoning is enabling, instead of helpful. My opinion, only.


My first post on this thread is copied below. Please tell me where in it I imply that her husband’s neglect is the cause of her affair.


EleGirl said:


> You cannot expect your husband to just forget, forgive and move on, not in 6 months. It takes years for the betrayed spouse to recover from an affair. I know that as the wayward spouse (WS) you do not get this, but it is reality.
> 
> When I found out about my husband’s affair it threw me into a horrible deep depression. I could not go to work the first couple of weeks after that. For months afterwards I could not concentrate at work. I would just sit at my computer all day as stare. The emotional pain was horrible. After a while I became so non-functional that I had to get on anti-depressants. And even with that I’d say it two 2-3 years before I started to feel like myself again.
> 
> My father’s death did not cause me as much pain and I was only 21 when he died.
> 
> The still birth of my twins was on the same level as the emotional shock of the divorce. But there is a major difference. The death of the twins was an act of nature. The affair on the other hand was a malicious, purposeful act by the person who had promised to love and care for me. To know that he could do that to me was a shock to my very being.
> 
> The way you describe your husband he might need anti-depressants for a while.
> 
> What have you done to help your husband feel safe now?
> 
> What are the two of you doing to repair your marriage?
> 
> There are some books I suggest, they are my Dr. Harley, “Surviving an Affair”, “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. If you both follow what those books talk about, you can repair and build a much stronger marriage.


----------



## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> In your first post, by implication. And at last we can agree on something, I too feel that she doesn't know what love is. I never personally attacked you, but I feel that your type of reasoning is enabling, instead of helpful. My opinion, only.


Have you read or used any of the Marriage Builder material? There is a plethora of information about infidelity and marriage. I’ve seen many marriages repaired using these concepts. They work. They are valid. I’ll side with the folks who are helping a lot of people build better marriages.


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## marksaysay

The book His Needs, Her Needs explains what EleGirl is describing. Its not that "needs" are an excuse. There is never an excuse for infidelity. The fact is though, the longer ones goes with unfulfilled needs, the more susceptible they are to seeking fulfillment elsewhere.

Op clearly stated her needs were not being met. Husband was hardly home therefore the emotional connection that most women desire was not being met through adequate affection or stimulating conversation. Women need this. She could've chosen to deal with it another way but she didn't. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geoffrey Marsh

I really think it just comes down to which is easiest in the end:

Divorce, working on marriage or infidelity....

Some choose poorly.


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## morituri

EleGirl said:


> Have you read or used any of the Marriage Builder material? There is a plethora of information about infidelity and marriage. I’ve seen many marriages repaired using these concepts. They work. They are valid. I’ll side with the folks who are helping a lot of people build better marriages.


Unfortunately Doc Harley spends too much time on unmet emotional needs as the main cause of affairs while not dealing enough with the other reasons like personality disorders, mid life crisis, and poor boundary control. So the effectiveness of his program is limited at best.


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## Beowulf

morituri said:


> Unfortunately Doc Harley spends too much time on unmet emotional needs as the main cause of affairs while not dealing enough with the other reasons like personality disorders, mid life crisis, and poor boundary control. So the effectiveness of his program is limited at best.


Quite right. There is never just one reason a spouse chooses to cheat. Usually there are many factors. Cheating is never the answer when there are so many avenues for addressing issues. The problem is that most people don't use these avenues because it means opening up oneself in order to truly effectively communicate. Often people are too proud or stubborn to do that. That's what happened in my marriage. We talked all the time but never about the things that really mattered because we were both afraid of opening up to each other so intimately. It almost cost us our marriage.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

morituri said:


> Unfortunately Doc Harley spends too much time on unmet emotional needs as the main cause of affairs while not dealing enough with the other reasons like personality disorders, mid life crisis, and poor boundary control. So the effectiveness of his program is limited at best.




:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Badblood

Beowulf said:


> Quite right. There is never just one reason a spouse chooses to cheat. Usually there are many factors. Cheating is never the answer when there are so many avenues for addressing issues. The problem is that most people don't use these avenues because it means opening up oneself in order to truly effectively communicate. Often people are too proud or stubborn to do that. That's what happened in my marriage. We talked all the time but never about the things that really mattered because we were both afraid of opening up to each other so intimately. It almost cost us our marriage.


Reading "Marriage Builders", or anything else will help me very little , right now. I don't need marriage counseling, I need counseling on dealing with the mentally ill. The one thing that comes out loud and clear, is that we really don't know the mindset of our SO'S. We try to be open and honest and communicate our needs and desires and expect that in return. Well, in my case, I never got anything from her about her relationship with her father, and the emotional mess it left her in. Now, after all of this, it seems like the affair was a symptom of her degenerating mental condition, and not the cause of it.


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## Badblood

EleGirl said:


> When a significant amount of a person's needs are not being met, that person becomes more susceptible to attention from someone outside the marriage.


This is the post I meant, which you posted right after the OP was ranting and whining about how bad her husband was treating her. The inference being that you agreed. If not, then we have no issue.


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## EleGirl

morituri said:


> Unfortunately Doc Harley spends too much time on unmet emotional needs as the main cause of affairs while not dealing enough with the other reasons like personality disorders, mid life crisis, and poor boundary control. So the effectiveness of his program is limited at best.


Actually Dr. Harley spends a lot of time on personality disorders... part of his coaching of people on how to remair their marriage is to find ways to protect the marriage from the cheater's 'personality disorders'. He addresses this very clearly. Some of those are radical honesty, transparency, trust but verify, avoiding situations that might lead to infidelity (eg avoiding close relationships with members of the opposite sex), and so on.

He also is clear that there are people with personality disorders, mental illnesses, etc who will never stop cheating. With those types of persons, divorce is the only reasonable solution.

It is only after the WS stops all contact, all behaviors that make them vulernable, etc that dealing with unmet needs can be considered.

Edited to add: Dr. Harley also clearly states that when there is physcial abuse, high levels of emotional abuse and drug abuse, the marriage should be ended. No one should be encouraged to save a marrige and stay in this kind of situation.


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## Badblood

EleGirl said:


> Actually Dr. Harley spends a lot of time on personality disorders... part of his coaching of people on how to remair their marriage is to find ways to protect the marriage from the cheater's 'personality disorders'. He addresses this very clearly. Some of those are radical honesty, transparency, trust but verify, avoiding situations that might lead to infidelity (eg avoiding close relationships with members of the opposite sex), and so on.
> 
> He also is clear that there are people with personality disorders, mental illnesses, etc who will never stop cheating. With those types of persons, divorce is the only reasonable solution.
> 
> It is only after the WS stops all contact, all behaviors that make them vulernable, etc that dealing with unmet needs can be considered.


I agree with this.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> Reading "Marriage Builders", or anything else will help me very little , right now. I don't need marriage counseling, I need counseling on dealing with the mentally ill. The one thing that comes out loud and clear, is that we really don't know the mindset of our SO'S. We try to be open and honest and communicate our needs and desires and expect that in return. Well, in my case, I never got anything from her about her relationship with her father, and the emotional mess it left her in. Now, after all of this, it seems like the affair was a symptom of her degenerating mental condition, and not the cause of it.


You are right that Marriage Builders, Divorce Busting, marriage counseling and any other kind of marriage repair system is not what you need. I'm sorry to hear that your wife has these problems and hope that she does recover as soon as possible.

There are support groups for people going through what you are going through.You might find some help for them. There might be some good books on it as well. It's not an easy road.


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## Badblood

I am fortunate that I have so many friends and family to help me with this. It sucks, yes, but I will get through it and hopefully so will she.


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## EleGirl

Badblood said:


> This is the post I meant, which you posted right after the OP was ranting and whining about how bad her husband was treating her. The inference being that you agreed. If not, then we have no issue.


I posted that yesterday, 11:37 PM ... long after the OP left this site. She's not coming back, have you noticed? It was posted in a general discussion about whether or not unmet needs can lead some people cheat... it does... it's the wrong choice, but some make that choice.

The fact is that you have no idea how badly her H did or did not treat her before she started her affair. For all we know she was so emotionally beat down that it made her easy prey to some scoundrel who goes after women in such a situation.

Or maybe she’s just a self-serving narcissist who uses people for her own purposes and then makes up excuses for why she did it to make herself look good.

On the surface she in particular sounded like a narcissist and a manipulator.


But she did not stay around long enough to go through her history and get more info.


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## Shaggy

People cheat because the choose to.

They either think they can get away without anyone finding out, or they've lost so much respect for their SO, that they don't care.

either way cheaters are pretty much the most selfish hateful people in the world.


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## EleGirl

Shaggy said:


> People cheat because the choose to.
> 
> They either think they can get away without anyone finding out, or they've lost so much respect for their SO, that they don't care.
> 
> either way cheaters are pretty much the most selfish hateful people in the world.


So are drug/alcohol abusing spouses, those who seriously neglect their spouses, and those who physcially abuse their spouses. These people are also choosing to seriously hurt their spouses and abanon their marital vows.


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## Shaggy

EleGirl said:


> So are drug/alcohol abusing spouses, those who seriously neglect their spouses, and those who physcially abuse their spouses. These people are also choosing to seriously hurt their spouses and abanon their marital vows.


I said they cheated because they chose to.

I didn't say anything about them choosing to hurt others. I didn't use the word hurt. I don't think, except in circumstances of revenge, that they intend to hurt others.

I did say hateful however, because they have stopped caring about the real impact their choice will have to others around them. They've decided that the risk/penalty is lower than their selfish need to get some with another person.

As for those other things/action - I was just talking about cheating - I'm sure there are common things in many of those other things, and some different things. I was sticking to the cheating.

People on all sides try to complicate this stuff. It's like analyzing why some guy steals a million dollars. It's not complicated, he wanted the million dollars and he though he could do it.


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## morituri

EleGirl said:


> So are drug/alcohol abusing spouses, those who seriously neglect their spouses, and those who physcially abuse their spouses. These people are also choosing to seriously hurt their spouses and abanon their marital vows.


Yes they are. They are having an affair with substance abuse. The same rules apply to them as they would a cheating spouse.


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## Jellybeans

I'll bite. My marriage was SH!T before I stepped out of it. Like, awful. Neglect? Absolutely. My husband could go days/weeks without speaking a single word to me. Habitually. A pattern. I spent a good amount of time asking him to go to MC with me. He refused. When we reached crisis levels, he'd come home from work, I'd go to kiss him and he'd tell me to get out of his way, he didn't have time "for that" and there are moments I really thought he hated me. There were many times I did not want to come home from work because I had no clue if he was going to be ignoring me still or happy/chipper. He would tell me he did not love me. He would threaten divorce constantly. He moved his family into our home w/o telling me about (he lied, said they were storing furniture) and when I told him how that really hurt me he didn't include me in such a major decision, he told me "Your opinion doesn't matter to me." And I know that it didn't. How could it? He later told me (during our separation) that he said things to me a person should not even say to a dog...words one should never speak to their worst enemy. He also made comments to me that were downright mean, in front of his family...so bad that his relatives would chastise him and tell him "Dude. That's rude/wrong/awful to say to your wife." He'd tell me that if I didn't f-ck him on command, he would ifnd someone else to do it. Well, we did not have a sexless marriage but over time I did resent him and having sex with him wasn't the first thing on my mind when he'd ignore me for 5-7-9 days on end. And he did find someone else to f-ck. He told me all about it. He also would cruise dating sites posting ads for sex with anonymous women saying he wanted them to set up dates. 

None of this makes what I did right or better. I wish more than anything I would not have cheated on him. Because it was not worth it in the end. I lost of piece of myself when I cheated. A piece I never get to get back. I should have just left before I did what I did. 

The point I'm trying to make is that some spouses are neglectful. Does that make cheating or an affair ok? No. Does that make neglecting your spouse ok? No. To me, neglecting your spouse in the manner above is breaking your marriage vows. When you do that, you are not honoring or cherishing your spouse. Neglecting your spouse is unloving.

I am the first one to call a cheater out ...cause I've been one. I've been on both sides of the equation in my own marriage, the betrayed and the disloyal. 

That said, neglect does exist. And it is absolutely 100% without a doubt, a marriage killer.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Jellybeans said:


> I'll bite. My marriage was SH!T before I stepped out of it. Like, awful. Neglect? Absolutely. My husband could go days/weeks without speaking a single word to me. Habitually. A pattern. I spent a good amount of time asking him to go to MC with me. He refused. When we reached crisis levels, he'd come home from work, I'd go to kiss him and he'd tell me to get out of his way, he didn't have time "for that" and there are moments I really thought he hated me. There were many times I did not want to come home from work because I had no clue if he was going to be ignoring me still or happy/chipper. He would tell me he did not love me. He would threaten divorce constantly. He moved his family into our home w/o telling me about (he lied, said they were storing furniture) and when I told him how that really hurt me he didn't include me in such a major decision, he told me "Your opinion doesn't matter to me." And I know that it didn't. How could it? He later told me (during our separation) that he said things to me a person should not even say to a dog...words one should never speak to their worst enemy. He also made comments to me that were downright mean, in front of his family...so bad that his relatives would chastise him and tell him "Dude. That's rude/wrong/awful to say to your wife." He'd tell me that if I didn't f-ck him on command, he would ifnd someone else to do it. Well, we did not have a sexless marriage but over time I did resent him and having sex with him wasn't the first thing on my mind when he'd ignore me for 5-7-9 days on end. And he did find someone else to f-ck. He told me all about it. He also would cruise dating sites posting ads for sex with anonymous women saying he wanted them to set up dates.
> 
> None of this makes what I did right or better. I wish more than anything I would not have cheated on him. Because it was not worth it in the end. I lost of piece of myself when I cheated. A piece I never get to get back. I should have just left before I did what I did.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is that some spouses are neglectful. Does that make cheating or an affair ok? No. Does that make neglecting your spouse ok? No. To me, neglecting your spouse in the manner above is breaking your marriage vows. When you do that, you are not honoring or cherishing your spouse. Neglecting your spouse is unloving.
> 
> I am the first one to call a cheater out ...cause I've been one. I've been on both sides of the equation in my own marriage, the betrayed and the disloyal.
> 
> That said, neglect does exist. And it is absolutely 100% without a doubt, a marriage killer.



Once again Beans you hit a home run.....:smthumbup:


----------



## JustaJerk

> And *he did find someone else to f-ck. He told me all about it.* He also would cruise dating sites posting ads for sex with anonymous women saying he wanted them to set up dates.




Jelly... who stepped out of the marriage first? I was under the impression you did, but wouldn't this mean; it was him?


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## EleGirl

EleGirl said:


> So are drug/alcohol abusing spouses, those who seriously neglect their spouses, and those who physcially abuse their spouses. These people are also choosing to seriously hurt their spouses and abanon their marital vows..





morituri said:


> Yes they are. They are having an affair with substance abuse. The same rules apply to them as they would a cheating spouse.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## EleGirl

Jellybeans said:


> ....The point I'm trying to make is that some spouses are neglectful. Does that make cheating or an affair ok? No. Does that make neglecting your spouse ok? No. To me, neglecting your spouse in the manner above is breaking your marriage vows. When you do that, you are not honoring or cherishing your spouse. Neglecting your spouse is unloving.
> 
> I am the first one to call a cheater out ...cause I've been one. I've been on both sides of the equation in my own marriage, the betrayed and the disloyal.
> 
> That said, neglect does exist. And it is absolutely 100% without a doubt, a marriage killer.


:iagree:

I or anyone else here is saying that a neglectful, abusive, addicted, etc spouse is an excuse for cheating. It's not. 

Your spouse is a good example of how abuse can be as much a form of marital infidelity and actually cheating with another person. Your husband broke his marriage vows.

You also point out something that most people who cheat do eventually realize. The infidelity was not worth it... it solves nothing and in the end hurts the WS more than not... and yes it hurts the BS more than not.

I do have a question for you. Your husband was very abusive. How did he react to finding out about your affair?


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## Jellybeans

I told him straight up what I did. Just as he told me he had cheated. As much as it sucked, I will forever be glad for the fact we did not find out from third parties or on our own. He was, of course, very upset. Just as I was when I learned. 

Honesty = true intimacy/true vulnerability.


----------



## EleGirl

Jellybeans said:


> I told him straight up what I did. Just as he told me he had cheated. As much as it sucked, I will forever be glad for the fact we did not find out from third parties or on our own. He was, of course, very upset. Just as I was when I learned.
> 
> Honesty = true intimacy/true vulnerability.


It's interesting that a man who mistreated you so much, threated you as though he did not care about you would even care that you had an affair. I know this is common... but it is still very odd.


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## Jellybeans

Infidelity hurts like a motherf-cker. I believe, there is simply no painful feeling that comes close to what it feels like, despite whatever the surrounding circumstances are.


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## Jen S

Did the OP ever come back or is this just an ongoing debate about who's at fault, etc.? I'm not criticizing because this thread is great, and it's good to know there's at least some diversity of thought about adultery on this site instead of just one point of view all the time (eg the whole "cheaters are worse than murderers" thing). Even if she's not back, maybe she's reading and learning like I am.


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## EleGirl

Jen S said:


> Did the OP ever come back or is this just an ongoing debate about who's at fault, etc.? I'm not criticizing because this thread is great, and it's good to know there's at least some diversity of thought about adultery on this site instead of just one point of view all the time (eg the whole "cheaters are worse than murderers" thing). Even if she's not back, maybe she's reading and learning like I am.


I think that the OP called all BS here freaks and took off. She might be reading. I hope she is.

But at this point it's just a debate.


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## Jen S

EleGirl said:


> I think that the OP called all BS here freaks and took off. She might be reading. I hope she is.
> 
> But at this point it's just a debate.


Okay, thanks. I also didn't realize she'd called people freaks. That's weird when people are trying to help her, even if she disagrees with what they say.


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## EleGirl

Jen S said:


> Okay, thanks. I also didn't realize she'd called people freaks. That's weird when people are trying to help her, even if she disagrees with what they say.


Well we told her that she has to give up her BFF, a woman who helped her hide the affair. So yea we are freaks :rofl:


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## morituri

EleGirl said:


> Well we told her that she has to give up her BFF, a woman who helped her hide the affair. So yea we are freaks :rofl:


It takes a freak to know one.


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## EleGirl

morituri said:


> It takes a freak to know one.


:rofl:


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## Beowulf

Jellybeans said:


> I told him straight up what I did. Just as he told me he had cheated. As much as it sucked, I will forever be glad for the fact we did not find out from third parties or on our own. He was, of course, very upset. Just as I was when I learned.
> 
> Honesty = true intimacy/true vulnerability.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: 1000%


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## Jellybeans

Jen S said:


> Okay, thanks. I also didn't realize she'd called people freaks. That's weird when people are trying to help her, even if she disagrees with what they say.


 It's not weird. It's common. Most people that post are really seeking validation and TAM doesn't roll like that. A lot of new posters will lash out when they don't like what they hear. Most people on here really do want to help out, they just aren't the group to kiss anyone's a$$ in the process to appease them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood

Jellybeans said:


> It's not weird. It's common. Most people that post are really seeking validation and TAM doesn't roll like that. A lot of new posters will lash out when they don't like what they hear. Most people on here really do want to help out, they just aren't the group to kiss anyone's a$$ in the process to appease them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this. We (at least I) aren't here to harm the OP, we are here to help. But we are experienced enough with betrayal that we won't be schmoozed either.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Badblood said:


> I agree with this. We (at least I) aren't here to harm the OP, we are here to help. But we are experienced enough with betrayal that we won't be schmoozed either.


Quite right...


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## Dexter Morgan

veebras said:


> So, I cheated on my husband abt 6 mos ago - he found out by going to paste something that he thought he had copied on the PC, but ended up pasting an entire message I had wrote to the person I was having an affair with. Great. Here's where the good and bad began...
> Good because that guy I was having an affair with was a mistake. completely.


As opposed to if it had been a different guy??




> So, we hashed it out majorly, some pretty rough, turbulant times going over the occurance(s) and why and how, and how horrible I am/was/etc. The grief, the guilt, the pain, the loss of the things I was doing which obv caused some enjoyment or I wouldnt have been doing it in the first place..
> *And my Hb decided to stay with me and that we would work on things*.


And that was his mistake




> And we have been doing so for 6 mos... However, this is the problem. He cannot forgive me.


Why should he? Especially this early? 6 mos isn't crap for someone who has been F'd over to get over things.




> We can have a great day, or a great week, or we can be just okay and getting along and then....suddenly, out of th eblue in my opinion, he's depressed, which causes or turns into anger, and he's lashing out at me, or snod remarks etc.



Yup, I know this all too well. Your H's behavior is understandable.




> When all I have been doing is being me, living our life, working, being mom, etc, meanign I havent done anything wrong that day he lashes out on me, or even that week, etc.


But you did do something wrong. You cheated on him and you are now someone he can't trust. Sorry, if you want this marriage, you are going to have to take it for a while. He is in pain, you don't get to skate and expect him to just bottle it up.




> I just dont think it is fair that if he chose to stay in this relationship and if I am not doing anythign wrong, I am being honest and a good wife and mom, I dont think it's fair that he can just be mean over something that happened 6 mos ago that I cannot erase!


Excuse me? Its not fair that you have given him a horrible vision to relive in his head for the REST OF HIS LIFE!

Sorry, you don't get to mentally abuse him and expect him to just get over it. Seems you want to just skate by and let him carry the burden of what you did. As if cheating wasn't selfish enough.




> I can never take it back, we can only move forward or really on be in today. I have tried to explain this to him numerous times, but never really listens or understands, he only sees his POV and starts yelling and guess what.. leaves. He's gone for good he says tonight, and I honestly think he means it this time.


I don't blame him. He has a wife that cheats, which is emotional abuse, he will be haunted by what you did for a long time, but wife expects him to just get over it. Sorry, doesn't work like that.




> I am sad. I wish he would have left initially almost.


That comment, coupled with the fact you expect him to just get over it, means that you weren't really wanting to keep the marriage in the first place. You just wanted to get by with very little consequences. And he knows this.




> I wish he could see that I have changed and the good that I am doing.. But anytime I want to see a girlfriend even with my kids with me, he is not okay with that.


Of course not. Again, 6 mos isn't crap. You need to earn his trust back. If that means you don't go out with the girls for a long time, then thats what it takes. If you don't want to sacrifice for the crap you have put him through, then just do him the favor of divorce so he can move on with his life and find someone who won't cheat and will respect him.




> He has become CONTROLLING beyond belief


And he wasn't before. 




> now we are divorcing because I went to my best friend's 7 yr. old son's basketball game and to her home for a few hours on his oof day.


You don't understand and you don't care to understand. He can't be sure that is where you went. Now I will concede that he may be over the top a bit. But everyone reacts to being betrayed differently.





> Because I intentionally did that to hurt him he says, because I knew he needed me as he is depressed, and needed me.. I';m sorry but I would like to continue somewhat of a social life outside our marriage and maybe have at least one friend!?


And that is reasonable. But again, 6 mos isn't crap and you need to go through sacrifices for a while. He doesn't get to suffer in this with a wife that simply wants to sweep it under the rug and suffer no consequences for he actions.




> He is a chef and works 14 hrs a day typically and we are opposite schedules, I think all the problems stem from this.


Oh here we go, blame him for your decision to cheat.




> I am a FT worker, and mom the rest of the evening, and maid, then at 11:30 at night when he gets home I am expected to be a fabulous wife too, when do I ever get me time to be me and be relaxed..? Ugh sorry


Its obvious from your post that all you care about is YOU and how much of an easy time you should have and get to have everything your way.

Do your husband a favor. If he doesn't end up filing for divorce, do it for him. He deserves better.


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## Dexter Morgan

veebras said:


> Thank you Tierzastarr.. I read that site.. and this is how I feel my Hb is being:
> 
> Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse


Oh get over yourself already. Resentment isn't to punish the spouse. Its how your husband FEELS! But its clear you don't think you should suffer any punishment even if resentment was designed to do that.




> What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.


Oh please. By cheating, you mentally and emotionally abuse your spouse. Cheaters don't get to cry disrespect and abuse. Please. 

If your H was beating you or physically keeping you from going anywhere, I would agree. But you are a grown woman. You make the decision to respect a husband you royally F'd over and realize that any extended period of time gone during this short time you screwed him over will make him wonder what you are doing.

Sorry, but by your description he wasn't like this before you cheated on him. Now he is. Ever wonder why? You even said yourself if he cheated on you it would have more than likely been over immediately. So now we can add hypocrite to your list of attributes.



> What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."
> 
> To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call.


:lol:

Oh you have got to be kidding. That is your attitude, that you married him for life? You just didn't expect fidelity to be part of that did ya?:rofl:





> My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again.


First off, the difference between her situation and yours is, 6 mos is still to early, and this is all still to fresh to your husband.

So tell me, if your H is to never bring up your affair again, then what should he do whenever the vision of you riding another man, sucking him off, having orgasms, etc.? What should your H do when these thoughts come back to torment him?

I know, just get over it

Again, this is ALL ABOUT YOU and your comfort in all of this while the comfort of your H is obviously irrelevant.

If you are complaining about having a hard way of going with things after only 6 mos, its obvious you don't care about the trauma you put your husband through.

If he has to suffer in the short term, then so do you. Take your lumps or set him free from the likes of you.


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## Dexter Morgan

veebras said:


> Ok, thanks for the BS mostly, seems like a big group of cheated on freaks who need some validation and try to say hurtful things to other cheaters to make themselves feel better. O-TAY.


Your lack of humility, and obvious sense of entitlement indicates just why you found yourself in the cheater's seat in the first place.

You are selfish and only care about yourself.


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## morituri

Another rotting 'dead horse' of a thread.


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## toadie

OP drops the equivalent of a thermonuclear weapon on her marriage and expects the husband to sign a peace treaty that's all on her terms? Veebras, you even admitted you probably wouldn't have stuck around had he cheated on you.

It's prudent for him not to trust you at this point. Trust is earned, not something you're entitled to, and you've reduced your husband's trust to 0. You have to build it back, which will take years. Your expecations of him are unrealistic and completely unfair. On top of blowing trust completely out of the water, you attack him for having negative feelings after only 6 months? 

You should be doing whatever you can to rebuild that trust, offering to prove to him where you are, what you're doing, etc. Instead, you cheat on him and then continue to abuse him? Makes no sense.


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## Cherry

What a train wreck! Whenever my H and I have an argument over some of his past cheating ways, he asks me to ask TAM if I am justified in my continued mistrust... I simply say "no need" and pick out a few threads from others for him to look at


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## BillK

I have to agree with that. She's being incredibly immature, and completely lacks empathy or remorse. Her's was an exit affair, but she changed her mind. Too painful for her to admit the things she did to her husband. It's much easier to blame him. She knows absolutely nothing about affair recovery or what her husband is going through. This man would be much better off leaving her. She's always going to blame her husband for her affair.

Been there done that. Wife had an affair during our 13th year of marriage, right in the middle of our adoption home study. Caught her by finding her chat log on our upstairs PC where she told him she was going to get a Brazilian wax and couldn't wait to take a picture and show him. Thing is, she said she was doing it for me.

About three months after DD day, she brought her work PC home and I found that logging was turned on for all IM conversations. So, I sat there and read every conversation they ever had over a 5 month period. Very raunchy, very demeaning to me, many personal attacks on my body and abilities. And as an added bonus, I got to read all the gushing conversations with her girlfriends the day after it was consumated. Got to hear how huge he was and that she almost passed out from so many orgasms in a row.

Made a copy and mailed them to his wife. Took up a whole copy paper box and cost a ton to ship to Arizona.


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## larry.gray

Holey zombie thread batman!

Start your own thread.


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## 225985

BillK said:


> I have to agree with that. She's being incredibly immature, and completely lacks empathy or remorse. Her's was an exit affair, but she changed her mind. Too painful for her to admit the things she did to her husband. It's much easier to blame him. She knows absolutely nothing about affair recovery or what her husband is going through. This man would be much better off leaving her. She's always going to blame her husband for her affair.
> 
> 
> 
> Been there done that. Wife had an affair during our 13th year of marriage, right in the middle of our adoption home study. Caught her by finding her chat log on our upstairs PC where she told him she was going to get a Brazilian wax and couldn't wait to take a picture and show him. Thing is, she said she was doing it for me.
> 
> 
> 
> About three months after DD day, she brought her work PC home and I found that logging was turned on for all IM conversations. So, I sat there and read every conversation they ever had over a 5 month period. Very raunchy, very demeaning to me, many personal attacks on my body and abilities. And as an added bonus, I got to read all the gushing conversations with her girlfriends the day after it was consumated. Got to hear how huge he was and that she almost passed out from so many orgasms in a row.
> 
> 
> 
> Made a copy and mailed them to his wife. Took up a whole copy paper box and cost a ton to ship to Arizona.




Your wife or your ex wife?

Start your own thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45




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## farsidejunky

@BillK:

The last post before yours on this thread was years ago.

Please start a new thread to receive the most help.

Closing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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