# Wife says she doesn't love me any more



## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Ugh, I'm really tired of telling this story.

I've posted a couple of threads in the General Discussion section of TAM. I've been here for about a year now. 

_We're in a rough patch now - kind of a continuation of one that began earlier this year. It subsided a bit, but just a few days ago came back. I think I misread what was happening before. 

We've be married for 13 years, together for 15. We have 3 kids now. Earlier this year I thought the breakdown was more over her emotional rut and sort of soul-searching phase, like what's her other purpose other than dutiful wife and mother. Which I wasn't at all resistant to her discovering herself. I encouraged her to try and figure it out and I would help in any way.

But her recent breakdown has been more revealing. She simply says she's tired and exhausted. To my guilt, I messed things up a bit for us financially. Not anywhere near bankruptcy, but one credit card debt can really wreak havoc on a family's already tight budget. And that's what I did. I stepped in s***t again. Even at the behest of my wife. It's totally my fault. 

So now she's at the point where she doesn't think she can muster the strength to not only hang around but fears that I might drag us though the dirt again. She feels that I took her for granted. And I have. Her deepest hurt comes from the thought of even though I couldn't fully reconcile the husband/father that I wanted to be with the person that I thought I really was, she didn't care. She loved me no matter what and was proud of me not matter what. And I just didn't fully appreciate that about her. Not in any way that she could appreciate, at least.

She says she hasn't written off our marriage yet. But she'd rather us be apart and still love each other, than risk staying married and end up resenting each other. Kind of a "I'll destroy this village in order to save it" gesture. 

There's never been talk of anybody else. And we've never dealt or experienced any type of infidelity. We've always had a pretty active physical relationship and we even enjoying working out together, even now. Just a little over a week ago we were giggling at silly shows together and she even told me how much she appreciates that efforts I've been making at really paying attention to her needs.

It's a weird place. I guess I never saw it coming, which makes it all seem so devastating. My instinct is to over-coddle. Which probably comes across as manipulation. She has expressed that sometimes she just wants to move on. I know that time and attention can help mend things. But how much time is too much in terms of not specifically trying to address and remedy a marital problem?

I need insight. I know I messed up and I've expressed that. I'll do what it takes to try and win her back. Maybe we have to kind of go through a re-courtship, albeit a very measured and slow one._

Anyway, since this was posted in November, W has pretty much resigned herself to not wanting to be my wife anymore. 

We haven't talked specifically about divorce, but more of a separation arrangement where I'm out of the house and she's with the kids and life will be "what it is". Whatever that means. I really don't think she's thought this arrangement through at all. She's operating out of fear of getting hurt again and the only way she can exist is without me as her partner. We separated for 3 weeks back in December (I moved in with my mother, ugh) after which she said I could move back. 

We're going to MC which really isn't getting us anywhere. I still love her and don't want this to be over. But I can't make her want to be with me. I can't afford to have a separate apartment. She doesn't work so she can't leave. She has no family here.

There has been some conflict between my mother and her in the past and there were a couple of occasions when it got quite ugly w/ yelling and them going nose to nose. This was over 10 years ago, but she's been hanging on the that resentment all of this time. She felt I didn't have her back in those instances and she resents me for it. She's admitted that throughout our marriage she hasn't expressed her feelings and needs appropriately. But she would get angry with me when I couldn't decipher her very generalized hints at some kind of bitterness she was harboring towards me. She says it's just not like her to speak up. As if I should be mind reader.

I'm on the fence as to which approach I must take. MAP? 180? I've accepted that she might not ever want to be married to me any more. Not sure if she's waiting for some kind of magical sign or just here out of convenience. Either way, life is tough.

Thoughts?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

you have gotten the ILYBINILWY. If you have been here for over a year so you know what that means.

180.

If there is no affair it is over. If there is an affair, bust it up before the 180, then do the 180 and wait for a year of separation to see there is anything left in marriage for you.

Sorry to say


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I agree with Lon. If you can vouch that there's no affair this is not saveable.

And the line about still loving each other but be apart is a load of crap. She just doesnt love you anymore.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

What did your counselor say?

Do you need a different one? 

Have you sat down with your wife on the finances and how that will be?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Her resentment holding is what's killing the relationship.

I would suggest you continue to go to counseling to address that specifically. People make mistakes. If you are really trying to make it right, and have apologized to her for letting her down, then you've done your part. 

If she wanted out, my thoughts are that she would be out looking for jobs etc. to help herself to get to that place. Since she isn't doing anything (except wallowing) I would say there is still hope.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Do yourself a favor, tell her to go and file for divorce. If you dont have any convictions about divorce then you go file post haste. Take my word for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you screwed up with credit debt how many times?

I don't think shes cheating I think shes sick to her stomach knowing she can't trust you with money. and that you put your whole family a risk because of your selfishness with money and debt.

JMHO.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

The only way to try......try to gain her trust is to be completely open with all finiancial decissions with her being the last word.

I have a question for you if you don't mind. How could you ever put your family at risk with poor choices that incure debt? Not once but twice?

I know everybody has their own risk/threshold for debt etc. but I'm betting you knew your wifes risk/threshold and just threw it out the e window. TWICE!!!!!!

once burned twice learned. except when you love someone and have kids then its twice burned and You might just say I'm out of here.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

All true. I admit fault, freely and have apologized. I killed the trust.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I would suggest you do not go the separation route. Loving each other apart? That is not a marriage. That is the ILYBIANILWY speech as has been suggested. Work on the marriage together or go your separate ways.

Just not something I believe in. But do eliminate the possibility that there is someone in the wings or not. There may not be an affair per se. But there may be someone in the wings. 

Do I think this? Not really. I may have missed this. Does she provide a good chunk of the family income?


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would suggest you do not go the separation route. Loving each other apart? That is not a marriage. That is the ILYBIANILWY speech as has been suggested. Work on the marriage together or go your separate ways.
> 
> Just not something I believe in. But do eliminate the possibility that there is someone in the wings or not. There may not be an affair per se. But there may be someone in the wings.
> 
> Do I think this? Not really. I may have missed this. Does she provide a good chunk of the family income?


She doesn't work. Just me.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

squid1035 said:


> She doesn't work. Just me.


I was afraid of that. 

So what does she do? I am not being mean but once kids are in school things can get pretty boring. Is she wanting you to support her from now on?

Financially you are having trouble, yet you would now pay for two residences and all the costs around them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> We've be married for 13 years, together for 15. We have 3 kids now. Earlier this year I thought the breakdown was more over her emotional rut and sort of soul-searching phase, like what's her other purpose other than dutiful wife and mother. Which I wasn't at all resistant to her discovering herself. I encouraged her to try and figure it out and I would help in any way.


So what does this mean exactly. trust me I am not quite as obtuse as my question may imply about this.

What emotional rut?

What soul-searching?

Discovering herself?

I think there is more to this than just you f'ing up the finances. I think her feelings go deeper than this. It seems she is not happy in her role and with her marriage.

So how do you support her with her soul searching? How is that actually realized? What is you do to support her? What pursuits does she have that allow ther to soul search. Again I get this to a point. I struggle with stuff myself.

This debt? What were the expenses that went on these cards? Was it squandered on you going out to the bars and strip clubs? Or was it you spending money on trying to make your family happy? Same result but it goes to your motivation.

I could go down the whole doing His Needs Her Needs thing and so on but this sounds very dire.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So I went back and you seem to be reposting the same stuff. I understand.

First off whatever you do ... do not leave your home. 

But I still wonder what is it you do that supports her finding herself?

Assuming you work outside of the home what is she doing when you are not at home? Indeed being a mother can be all encompassing but is that really the case here?

What does she do with her time?

What do you guys do together?

I take it you are Navy or ex Navy and brought her to the US. Is she wanting to go back?

What are you doing to find yourself?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Do you belong to any group of American men with Filipino wives, squid? It could be that at some point, a wife from abroad feels like your wife does. I don't know. 

I would not hang up the towel just yet. I would really encourage you to have some confidence in yourself, and keep talking. You also need support. 

And it sounds like the only support your wife has is back home. Does she have any friends here?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I confess this is also hard to follow as there seems to be a half dozen threads that feel very similar. 

I am seeing much of the same advice over and over. You might consider consolidating to one main thread.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> I confess this is also hard to follow as there seems to be a half dozen threads that feel very similar.
> 
> I am seeing much of the same advice over and over. You might consider consolidating to one main thread.


Here's my original thread. Just move over there.

[http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/140146-rough-patch.html[/URL]


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

What does your wife do OP? You said she doesn't work right?

Kids? Home maker? Cleans........cooks?


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

DoF said:


> What does your wife do OP? You said she doesn't work right?
> 
> Kids? Home maker? Cleans........cooks?


All of the above.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> So what does this mean exactly. trust me I am not quite as obtuse as my question may imply about this.
> 
> What emotional rut?
> 
> ...


After a long chat last night, it seems that the real root of her issue is that she has devoted her whole life to being a SAHM and she's now at the phase in her life where she's wondering what her real purpose is. She's poured all of her efforts into this marriage and this family. She left a life and family behind for all of this. She's worn herself down to an emotional shell and now feels nothing inside. Just a vacuum in her heart.

As for her soul-searching, I've NEVER expressed disapproval. I've been more than encouraging when trying to get her to go back to school. I've even suggested careers or that she go see a career counselor so that she can gauge what career might fit her best based on her interests. Even she's not sure what her interests are. 

Yes, we need to work on how we communicate and how we approach our marriage. She feels she has nothing more to give. Or maybe just doesn't want to give right now. She wants to work on herself right now, preferably in the absence of the responsibilities of being in a marriage.

We've agreed that separation is not the way to go for now. We've got to try to find a way to make this work. I told her that if your'e here you've got to at least try to see this thing succeed. 

As for the credits cards, no I never spent it on stuff for me like the stereotypical flashy things (watches, fancy clothes). I bought us romantic getaways, family vacations and dinners out.

I hear the criticisms from commenters here. Yes, I was financially irresponsible. I'm not trying to absolve myself of that. And I'm not perfect.

She told me last night she's always going to worry that I'll slip back into bad habits. So as far as that goes, rebuilding of trust will take time.

It makes me feel good to talk openly with her and feel our mutual love, however non-romantic hers is for me currently. But even she encourages me and says that if I ever meet anybody and want to leave her, she would be okay with that. So her commitment level towards the marriage is not all there.

Sounds like she's really moved on. Don't know if I can steer her back. The fact that she's still here and wanting to go to MC is my only bit of hope.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think there is a lot of hope, squid. 

Just having heart to heart talks is already great. Keep up the transparency. Keep earning her financial trust.

I think letting her and the kids go back to the Philippines for the summer is a good idea. I think once she spends time there, she will realize she wants to be here, and with you.

Keep making deposits into her Emotional Bank Account. Especially listening to her. Really listening. No judgment. Just seeking to understand.

And don't listen to all the "kick her to the curb" folks. Your wife is not cheating or spending ridiculous amounts of money or doing anything like that. She is sad and lonely and discouraged. 

Does she have many friends? She needs some outlets other than her long distance family.

Keep talking with her, or better, listening. Keep showing her love, in the ways that mean love to her.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Make the w/e reservation before she goes home, line up a sitters, and get the car ready for that trip to the other city.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, you're both still there, so you still have the time and opportunity to improve things.

Have you tried to write things down, things that you both agree on as goals? Both general goals to work toward and specific goals that help you get there.

You are both flailing. She is wrung out and you are feeling less and less hope.

Articulate some goals for the near term. Agree on them. Write them down. Then actively work toward them.

I think she needs to take some control of her life, but she's depressed and doesn't really know how. She can take small steps now if that helps. It's difficult to just get back into the working world when you've been a SAHM. It's difficult to know where to start. Maybe a home project where she takes the lead. Or taking a part-time job at the local library or school. Or, or, or.... There are many things you can brainstorm together here. Just write down your ideas and agree to try to work toward something specific together.

And fwiw, I wonder a bit about your mother. You have mentioned her effect a few times, but I assume that it has been a huge, perhaps dealbreaking, issue in your marriage. Whatever happened, your W has to know that it is the two of you working toward a life, not your mother and you vs. your W.

Good luck, squid.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



jld said:


> I think there is a lot of hope, squid.
> 
> Just having heart to heart talks is already great. Keep up the transparency. Keep earning her financial trust.
> 
> ...


It very well could be there is no OM, that it is a MLC or she is just finally done. But there is a specific reason for her to utter her words now. Something changed, triggered, in her life that inspired her to decide to emotionally check out of the marriage, and when people check out their emotions it is so they can put them somewhere specifically that they feel they need to. She has a goal in mind and will not share it with squid because that would interfere with her plans.

In a relationship that is not abusive or debilitating, there is ample room for soul searching. If she needed to connect with family, friends or places she could do it in a loving way and not require separation or tossing aside her H, in fact she would have more support by keeping him.

She is cashing out so that she can put her chips on a different bet.

I do agree with others though, that if she is choosing to still be there, and is not up to deception, there is hope forsure. But I would advise being careful to not go into limbo, be vigilant that she is actually still all in by choice and not just placating him while biding her time to put another plan in place.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

do some free/low cost things for your wife. give her a massage, plan a picnic, make her her favorite meal, etc. 

do things to make your wife feel good that dont trigger her fears of financial woes.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



As'laDain said:


> do some free/low cost things for your wife. give her a massage, plan a picnic, make her her favorite meal, etc.
> 
> do things to make your wife feel good that dont trigger her fears of financial woes.


And equally important, squid needs to increase his own self worth and esteem by working out, getting some of his own baggage sorted out, finish a few things he has left unfinished, buy himself a few nice new clothes and shoes (without wracking up more debt) and demonstrating he is not needy. What woman is attracted to, and wishes to stay with, a man that is needy, a pushover and can't even take care of his own stuff?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Lon said:


> And equally important, squid needs to increase his own self worth and esteem by working out, getting some of his own baggage sorted out, finish a few things he has left unfinished, buy himself a few nice new clothes and shoes (without wracking up more debt) and demonstrating he is not needy. What woman is attracted to, and wishes to stay with, a man that is needy, a pushover and can't even take care of his own stuff?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lon said:


> It very well could be there is no OM, that it is a MLC or she is just finally done. But there is a specific reason for her to utter her words now. Something changed, triggered, in her life that inspired her to decide to emotionally check out of the marriage, and when people check out their emotions it is so they can put them somewhere specifically that they feel they need to. She has a goal in mind and will not share it with squid because that would interfere with her plans.
> 
> In a relationship that is not abusive or debilitating, there is ample room for soul searching. If she needed to connect with family, friends or places she could do it in a loving way and not require separation or tossing aside her H, in fact she would have more support by keeping him.
> 
> ...


Squid, do you see your wife as a calculating person? 

This is not the impression I have gotten. I am imagining a foreign woman who, now feeling her children getting older and not needing her as much, and disappointed in her husband's financial management, is longing a bit for her homeland and culture. That's why I think a trip back home might help her see the limits of what she may be idealizing.

And if you make those deposits, she should end up missing _you._


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

jld said:


> Squid, do you see your wife as a calculating person?
> 
> This is not the impression I have gotten. I am imagining a foreign woman who, now feeling her children getting older and not needing her as much, and disappointed in her husband's financial management, is longing a bit for her homeland and culture. That's why I think a trip back home might help her see the limits of what she may be idealizing.
> 
> And if you make those deposits, she should end up missing _you._


I hear you.

She asked me what reconciliation meant - like to what end or purpose was it for. I said for the purposes of getting our marriage back on track. She said, "But what's the point, if I don't feel anything?" ...followed by sympathy and sorry.

We then talked about saving and going on family trips. So there's talk of a future but not for us, right now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jld said:


> Squid, do you see your wife as a calculating person?
> 
> This is not the impression I have gotten. I am imagining a foreign woman who, now feeling her children getting older and not needing her as much, and disappointed in her husband's financial management, is longing a bit for her homeland and culture. That's why I think a trip back home might help her see the limits of what she may be idealizing.
> 
> And if you make those deposits, she should end up missing _you._




She's probably apprehensive about her own future. She's getting older, has a financially irresponsible husband she doesn't think she can count on, and is realizing that the odds she'll ever be able to support herself are shrinking. He might be irresponsible but he also works and as such has ultimate control here. 
It's one thing to be unsure and dependent when you're younger as you always feel like you have more time, but you get older and your options shrink. Facing getting older with financial hardship is a tough pill; I realize it's TAM custom to assume affairs but this scenario is quite likely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



jld said:


> Squid, do you see your wife as a calculating person?
> 
> This is not the impression I have gotten. I am imagining a foreign woman who, now feeling her children getting older and not needing her as much, and disappointed in her husband's financial management, is longing a bit for her homeland and culture. That's why I think a trip back home might help her see the limits of what she may be idealizing.
> 
> And if you make those deposits, she should end up missing _you._


I have not gotten the impression of a shrewd woman either. My concern for squid is that he may be masking her flaws with his own self blame, that he might not be willing to portray his Wife in a negative light and may have her on a pedestal. My concern is that he may be too willingly accepting blam shifting, because my impression based on what he has said about his wife is that she is in fact checked out, saying things like "what does matter if we save the marriage if I am not in love with you" and that she has her own guilt that she is coping with and pretending to stick around to reconcile in her heart whatever commitments she is breaking by ending the marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lon said:


> I have not gotten the impression of a shrewd woman either. My concern for squid is that he may be masking her flaws with his own self blame, that he might not be willing to portray his Wife in a negative light and may have her on a pedestal. My concern is that he may be too willingly accepting blam shifting, because my impression based on what he has said about his wife is that she is in fact checked out, saying things like "what does matter if we save the marriage if I am not in love with you" and that she has her own guilt that she is coping with and pretending to stick around to reconcile in her heart whatever commitments she is breaking by ending the marriage.


Well, it will be interesting to hear squid's take on this. I think it is more innocent than this, but I obviously don't know her. And I still think squid could turn this around.

Are you still getting advice from bagdon, squid?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



jld said:


> Well, it will be interesting to hear squid's take on this. I think it is more innocent than this, but I obviously don't know her. And I still think squid could turn this around.
> 
> Are you still getting advice from bagdon, squid?


I think they can turn this around too, if both choose to be all in. But no good will come of being in limbo, and I have seen over and over that when someone is checked out their priority is to avoid ever falling back into the trap again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lon said:


> I think they can turn this around too, if both choose to be all in. But no good will come of being in limbo, and I have seen over and over that when someone is checked out their priority is to avoid ever falling back into the trap again.


I'm sure it's a safety mechanism. That's why I keep telling squid to do things that make his wife feel loved. He also needs to do things to make her feel financially safe. He probably needs to be obviously accountable in the area of finances.

There seem to be stories here of men making their wives fall in love with them all over again. It takes some unselfish effort, but it does seem possible.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lon said:


> I think they can turn this around too, if both choose to be all in. But no good will come of being in limbo, and I have seen over and over that when someone is checked out their priority is to avoid ever falling back into the trap again.


jld, 

I am getting advice from badgon and he pointed me to Anchorwatch who is here too and in my "Rough Patch" thread. 

Lon,

As for being in limbo, I agree with you 100%. But how do you convince someone to leave themselves vulnerable to the pain that made them wander away in the first place? That is specifically what's holding her back. She's expressed that exactly.

As for your comment:

_In a relationship that is not abusive or debilitating, there is ample room for soul searching. If she needed to connect with family, friends or places she could do it in a loving way and not require separation or tossing aside her H, in fact she would have more support by keeping him.

She is cashing out so that she can put her chips on a different bet.

I do agree with others though, that if she is choosing to still be there, and is not up to deception, there is hope forsure. But I would advise being careful to not go into limbo, be vigilant that she is actually still all in by choice and not just placating him while biding her time to put another plan in place._

I'm confused too why her self-discovery cannot happen within our marriage. She is of the firm belief that growth cannot occur here...that she needs to fully know who she is in order to properly love someone. So her answer is to just be alone while she figures it out. She realizes that can't work right now, so stuck here in limbo is where she feels she's at. She feels she hasn't lived her life until now. She does feel like time is running out and she has to make her move now.

But why this way, I don't understand.

I talked to her about coming here to TAM but she's weirded out my sharing such a personal story about herself. She might still come here though. She seemed encouraged when I told her how objective and supportive the community is here.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you tried talking to her family, squid? Is her mother still alive? I doubt her mother would approve of this. 

Again, have you reached out to anyone in the Filipino community at all? This could be a common occurrence after a spouse has been here a certain number of years.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



squid1035 said:


> I'm confused too why her self-discovery cannot happen within our marriage. She is of the firm belief that growth cannot occur here...that she needs to fully know who she is in order to properly love someone. So her answer is to just be alone while she figures it out. She realizes that can't work right now, so stuck here in limbo is where she feels she's at. She feels she hasn't lived her life until now. She does feel like time is running out and she has to make her move now.
> 
> But why this way, I don't understand.


That is what I keep focusing on when talking about Walkaway spouses. My suspicion when I hear this is always either 1) an OM 2)a MLC 3) you have lost her trust or have been emotionally abusive or 4) was her plan all along. 

She no longer sees you as being able to meet her relationship needs, and she has decided that she wants to have those met somehow. 

What other possibilities can you come up with? Has she offered any other reasons why she claims she can no longer love you?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

For some reason, her feelings are dead. There is no way to logically reason with her to want to stay in the game. This doesn't mean that the game is over, but it does mean that whatever methods you have tried in the past salvage things aren't going to work.

Presently, she believes that things aren't going to change...that YOU aren't going to change. The only thing that may re-spark her interest is action..NOT WORDS.

Don't bring up divorce or separation any more. Don't talk about the future either...just take care of your business...and be content with backing off of her emotionally...quit coming to her for validation. This hopefully will ease the claustrophobia and have her rethink things. If she wants a divorce, then SHE can call the lawyer and do all the work for it. 

Start breaking out the books...such as Dave Ramsey's debt reduction material...so simple to follow...and put together a budget and a plan to kill the debt. Also try to do your own thing...always having something to do (that isn't costing a lot).

This is a familiar pattern, your wife's behavior. Very push/pull. If at any point you think she is testing the "maybe I'll stay" waters, don't get sucked in to be comfortable!! Stay on your game...work on goal setting, your finances...things that show you are looking after the security of your future. Your wife is realizing that she doesn't want a best friend, she wants a husband.

I cannot stress enough how this is a perception issue on her part. She perceives that you aren't going to come through for her. Tired of your words. So take action. Don't come running to her like a puppy dog anymore. Take action and have the result be the proof...up your hygiene...up your physical activity... ignore your fears and her moods. Get off of her rollercoaster and create your own stability and sanctuary in your being and she may decide to join you in that...as most women do not want to be center of your universe. They want to see passion and traction in their husbands, so they can join in the fun and adventure.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> For some reason, her feelings are dead. There is no way to logically reason with her to want to stay in the game. This doesn't mean that the game is over, but it does mean that whatever methods you have tried in the past salvage things aren't going to work.
> 
> Presently, she believes that things aren't going to change...that YOU aren't going to change. The only thing that may re-spark her interest is action..NOT WORDS.
> 
> ...


Love this! I hear you, loud and clear.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

jld said:


> Have you tried talking to her family, squid? Is her mother still alive? I doubt her mother would approve of this.
> 
> Again, have you reached out to anyone in the Filipino community at all? This could be a common occurrence after a spouse has been here a certain number of years.


I thought about telling her family. I know she doesn't really tell them anything. She's only told her brother with whom she's very close that she not happy and the we're not close anymore. I have a friend who also married a Filipina and went through a recent rough patch. 

As for friends, she really has no friends here. She's not used to reaching out to people. Those that she does reach out to (her siblings) don't really get her full spectrum of emotions. So she's sort of closed herself off. I'm the only person who knows the full depth of her feelings and emotions. I keep encouraging her to reach out and try and make new friends, but she's got difficulty doing that. She thinks no one will understand her. And I'm not talking on a communication level. She speaks such perfect English that she sounds American. She thinks people won't "get her". So she chooses to stay closed off.

I told her about TAM and encouraged her to come here and share, but she was uneasy with sharing such personal feelings with strangers. I told her that she can choose how much she wants to reveal. She's worried at the insensitivity that might occur from so-called trolls. But I told her that the community is actually really supportive. Sure, she's going to hear some hard criticism. But she'll also get some good advice and encouragement.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lon said:


> That is what I keep focusing on when talking about Walkaway spouses. My suspicion when I hear this is always either 1) an OM 2)a MLC 3) you have lost her trust or have been emotionally abusive or 4) was her plan all along.
> 
> She no longer sees you as being able to meet her relationship needs, and she has decided that she wants to have those met somehow.
> 
> What other possibilities can you come up with? Has she offered any other reasons why she claims she can no longer love you?


Sorry. What's MLC?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Wife says she doesn't love me any more*



squid1035 said:


> Sorry. What's MLC?


Mid life crisis


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lon said:


> Mid life crisis


Ah. It's partly that. As I've mentioned, her main fear of letting me back into her heart is that I'll slip back into my old ways and begin, as she says, disregarding her and putting her on the back burner when it comes to major decisions. She's stated that many times.

She's actually said that she's worried about showing me too much emotion because she's worried that I'll think everything's okay and slip back to the way things were before.

I've tried convincing her that I'm learning to change my behaviors and respond to her needs. But of course, those are just words. She has no reason to believe them at this point because I haven't demonstrated myself to be that person yet.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

squid1035 said:


> Ah. It's partly that. As I've mentioned, her main fear of letting me back into her heart is that I'll slip back into my old ways and begin, as she says, disregarding her and putting her on the back burner when it comes to major decisions. She's stated that many times.
> 
> She's actually said that she's worried about showing me too much emotion because she's worried that I'll think everything's okay and slip back to the way things were before.
> 
> I've tried convincing her that I'm learning to change my behaviors and respond to her needs. But of course, those are just words. She has no reason to believe them at this point because I haven't demonstrated myself to be that person yet.


Are you sure you are not being too hard on yourself here squid?

Does she expect you to be perfect? Has she been upfront about what her needs truly are? It seems to me that she is choosing to remain on the fence, she has no motivation to fix her own problems and likes being on the fence because she doesn't have to make any commitments, enjoys the security of remaining in your household while you are whirring about trying to fix a problem that she has already detached from, and I suspect if it were not for the distance to the place she longs to be she would be happy to cake eat if you let her. What exactly does she bring to relationship and have you even identified your relationship needs from her? Maybe she just feels like she serves no purpose for you?

What consequences do you put on her for her choice to not love you? I mean, where is your anger man? I don't care if you blame yourself but how long are you willing to let this woman treat you as an option until something better for her comes along?

Just be yourself, and have no shame about who you are, you do not have to be something you are not and you are not the one that has to do all the lifting and make all the changes. If she doesn't love you for who you are then just let her go - seriously.


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## squid1035 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lon said:


> Are you sure you are not being too hard on yourself here squid?
> 
> Does she expect you to be perfect? Has she been upfront about what her needs truly are? It seems to me that she is choosing to remain on the fence, she has no motivation to fix her own problems and likes being on the fence because she doesn't have to make any commitments, enjoys the security of remaining in your household while you are whirring about trying to fix a problem that she has already detached from, and I suspect if it were not for the distance to the place she longs to be she would be happy to cake eat if you let her. What exactly does she bring to relationship and have you even identified your relationship needs from her? Maybe she just feels like she serves no purpose for you?
> 
> ...


I have phrased it like "so you woke up one day and decided that you didn't love me anymore" or something like that. She said she didn't just decided this. She sees me differently now, simply put. She only sees my negative qualities.

Your comment about where's my anger - well, so what's my move? She has no job but wants to go back to school. Like, I want this thing to work, but will hardballing her drive her away? 

This manipulation won't make her suddenly love me.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

She can't expect you to make her happy, she has to do that for herself. That is her main problem... looking to you to be her everything and it's not possible.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

squid1035 said:


> Your comment about where's my anger - well, so what's my move? She has no job but wants to go back to school. Like, I want this thing to work, but will hardballing her drive her away?
> 
> This manipulation won't make her suddenly love me.


I'm not talking about manipulation or game playing. But when someone says they don't love you, you need to pay attention. She will not be looking out for your interests, she has resigned herself from that responsibility. She will not be attempting to fulfill your needs. You are on your own, so whatever your next move is has to be in your own best interest. That is for you to decide and if you struggle identifying that then try to find a counsellor to help you do so.

And you can be perfectly clear with her about this, no manipulation. If you want to continue to cohabitate, then do so but don't expect that giving things to her is going to influence her feelings. If you want her trust then just be honest and live up to your words. If she is not all in, then you are in limbo and the longer you are there the most disappointment you will experience. If you decide that it is in your best interest to detach then that is what the 180 is for.

So ask her what she wants to do, don't take "I don't know" for an answer, then help her get what she wants so that you are not in limbo anymore.


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