# Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???



## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Is this really the general consensus? If anything, it depends on the situation. Just getting stuck in the mindset that your children should be the priority shouldn't necessarily equate you with someone who does the same amount of emotional damage as someone who cheats on their spouse. 

When kids are very small, there is hardly time to sleep, let alone time for you as a couple. Once you realize you are on the path to cheating, it is a very conscious daily decision that you are doing something wrong. Being a parent of young children and neglecting even yourself, isn't something you are consciously aware of as wrong. 

You think what you are doing is best for the kids. It seems unfair to punish a mom the same way you would a cheater. I'm not talking about neglecting your spouse until the kids are off to college. I'm talking about the challenges of being a first time parent and not understanding what a healthy balance is. Once you realize you were wrong, wether it was pointed out by your spouse or your own realization, is it worthy of the same punishment as if you were neglecting your partner because you were "busy" with another adult?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Dr. James Dobson has said as much.

I believe it's his book "Love Must Be Tough" that points out that the most important thing to do to raise a child is to create a strong *family*. And, to do that, each spouse must set their priorities in this order:


God
Their spouse
Their children

A spouse (husband or wife) that puts their children's needs above their spouse's needs is setting up a situation that eventually will destroy their family (and thus eventually damage their children).

He doesn't come out and say it is as bad as adultery, but the description he gives of the long term damage it does to a marriage (and the family) is damning.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it depends. Most cases not, but it could be in certain scenarios. The length of time and the level of neglect factor into it.

In some ways, focus on the children can lead to something similar to an emotional affair. There have been examples of EAs with non-romantic partners (including family members). I could see that where the children are the target of all the emotional focus and energy.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Blue Firefly said:


> A spouse (husband or wife) that puts their children's needs above their spouse's needs is setting up a situation that eventually will destroy their family (and thus eventually damage their children).
> 
> ...... the long term damage it does to a marriage (and the family) is damning.


I agree. Neither situation is healthy and cause irreparable long term damage. 

However, most would agree that cheating is a choice that is made by the cheater. The betrayed spouse is told not to take any responsibility for that choice and is told to only take responsibility for issues in the marriage outside of the cheating. 

The feelings and sense of responsibility that comes over you when your child is born is overwhelming. It is easy to get carried away in the mom role especially if you are a stay at home mom. Depending on the parental role your spouse plays, that devotion can become even stronger. Snapping someone out of that role is even harder, i believe, than snapping someone out of the "fog" of cheating. 

Again, each situation is different and we can't generalize either situation. I just think we have to remember that a cheater neglects their spouse for a stranger, however a mom neglects her spouse for their kids. I think this is an important difference that makes cheating worse and shouldn't be that easily equated with losing yourself in being a mom. 

I suppose the issue can also be discussed with spouses who put their jobs before the family. A spouse who doesn't make their significant other a priority over their job is also doing the same emotional damage but depending on how long it goes on, I don't know that it equates to cheating.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

To me cheating is much worse.

Only factor that could make them equivalent is if the spouse is made aware that they are putting their kids first, does nothing to make it better and allows it to go on for a significant amount of time.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think it depends. Most cases not, but it could be in certain scenarios. The length of time and the level of neglect factor into it.


I agree with that. 
A mom who neglects their spouse until the kids go off to college is certainly doing more damage than say, a mom who was doing it the first three or four years of their children's lives and then comes to her senses. 
Again, focusing on the first four years of the child's life, if the mom treated the spouse with *daily* disrespect and calousness then the emotional damage can be quite damning. I believe, in some of these situations, there is still some level of love shown to the spouse on occassion. There is even physical intimacy sometimes. Is this kind of abuse really equal to what even a one night stand can do to a marriage, let alone a long term affair? Is it really right to tell the husband, once the wife sees how she was wrong and is trying to make it right, to treat her like you would a wayward spouse? In some cases maybe, but generally, when speaking about a new mom and while the kids are very young, I don't think so.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Kermitty said:


> Again, focusing on the first four years of the child's life, if the mom treated the spouse with *daily* disrespect and calousness then the emotional damage can be quite damning. I believe, in some of these situations, there is still some level of love shown to the spouse on occassion. There is even physical intimacy sometimes. Is this kind of abuse really equal to what even a one night stand can do to a marriage, let alone a long term affair? Is it really right to tell the husband, once the wife sees how she was wrong and is trying to make it right, to treat her like you would a wayward spouse? In some cases maybe, but generally, when speaking about a new mom and while the kids are very young, I don't think so.


Again, I would compare it more to an EA, where occasional love and sex sometimes occur. That those things occur does not lessen the feeling when all the emotional focus is on another person.

My wife did those things for me, but for a brief time made it clear that I was really not needed apart from the paycheck I brought in and the chores I could assist with. The children, however, were like air to her. I can't imagine dealing with that for four years.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> I suppose the issue can also be discussed with spouses who put their jobs before the family. A spouse who doesn't make their significant other a priority over their job is also doing the same emotional damage but depending on how long it goes on, I don't know that it equates to cheating.


I think that's an analogy that many will understand.

Men have a need to provide for their families--it's almost primal. Many a man has made this the focus of their lives, only to wake up one day and realize their wife has left them and their family is in a shambles.

Men feel selfish for asking their wives to put their needs ahead of their children, which is why they don't do it. But, that doesn't mean they don't still have those needs, and it doesn't mean they resent their wife for ignoring those needs, even if it is for a good reason (the children).

After all, isn't a husband that ignores his wife's needs because of work doing it because a good reason (supporting the family financially)?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Blue Firefly said:


> I think that's an analogy that many will understand.
> 
> Men have a need to provide for their families--it's almost primal. Many a man has made this the focus of their lives, only to wake up one day and realize their wife has left them and their family is in a shambles.
> 
> ...


And yet no one would criticize a women who left her husband after four years of being ignored in favor of his work. Her needs would be addressed (and rightly so). While one might understand his reasoning, everyone would agree that he failed her and their relationship.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Does it matter if its "just as bad" if it leads you to the same place? How does one realize they are on the path to cheating? the cheaters could be high on endorphins so are they consciously making a decision? If we can excuse one for not being in their right mind why not the other? How long should we excuse the behavior? Until the second child is born and she's no longer a first time mother? All kids are out of diapers? What's the time frame? What about when the activities start. Is that excusable?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Kobo said:


> Does it matter if its "just as bad" if it leads you to the same place? How does one realize they are on the path to cheating? the cheaters could be high on endorphins so are they consciously making a decision? If we can excuse one for not being in their right mind why not the other? How long should we excuse the behavior? Until the second child is born and she's no longer a first time mother? All kids are out of diapers? What's the time frame? What about when the activities start. Is that excusable?


I'm not excusing anything or trying to diminish the hurt that someone feels in either situation. Ive been through some pretty nasty stuff myself so I understand. Although I have never had an emotional affair so I can say I know what that feels like but I can imagine. I actually didn't know one could have an emotional affair without it getting physical until I found this site. 

The thing is not everyone is taught that after you have kids, you have to keep putting your marriage first. Not everyone is taught that financially providing a good life for your family isn't the most important thing you can do. These life lessons are sometimes only learned after you make mistakes or you experience it yourself. 
There is also your past and the influence it has over you. Someone who came from a poor family where financial issues were always causing emotional trauma may think the key to a happy family is making sure that they provide financially. Someone who never felt loved by their mother may think that providing extra love and making their kids a priority is what is important. 
When a spouse comes to them, telling them that they feel neglected, it can be very hard to communicate that their way of thinking is wrong. How many young couples even know how to communicate effectively. 
However, the general population knows that cheating is wrong plain and simple, no?

I guess in my own mind if someone came to me and said, I found out my wife was having an emotional affair for four years and I have no desire to reconcile even though she is sorry. I would say, ok, understandable in most cases. 
If someone came to me and said I've felt neglected ever since my kids were born four years ago and now my wife sees her wrong doing but I don't want to reconcile, I would say she deserves a second chance in most cases. 

I suppose it is just my personal bias having realized how difficult bringing kids into a marriage can be even if you are "prepared".


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Kermitty said:


> I suppose it is just my personal bias having realized how difficult bringing kids into a marriage can be even if you are "prepared".


I do get this. My own personal bias shows through in the pain I experienced when I was dismissed, even if it was for a short time and we fixed it. That is not fun, and putting up with that for four years is not something I could imagine doing.

As I think about it more, I do think the work analogy might be better than the EA one. If a husband dismissed his wife in favor of work, and four years later the wife said I am done and there is no going back, would your expectation be that she should stay because he says he finally gets it? It is not clear that for most people it would be.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

This may be only a perception, but it seems women want the man for giving her a baby. Once that is done, he isn't needed anymore.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

dormant said:


> This may be only a perception, but it seems women want the man for giving her a baby. Once that is done, he isn't needed anymore.


maybe a select few but i dont think it is generally true. no one i know is like that anyway.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> As I think about it more, I do think the work analogy might be better than the EA one. If a husband dismissed his wife in favor of work, and four years later the wife said I am done and there is no going back, would your expectation be that she should stay because he says he finally gets it? It is not clear that for most people it would be.


my expectation would be for the wife to give him another chance if everything else was equal. maybe it isn't the same for most.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Cheating is an act of BETRAYAL... in this way.. .it is WORSE by far... but if a woman UNDERSTANDS the pain & hurt she is causing her husband by blatantly ignoring his needs, callous to his desire for her..... sorry she is NOT much better in my eyes... Just a couple rungs lower. It is betrayal in it's own right if she once was a vibrant sexually giving woman -only to say..."Opps, we have children now, so our sex life is allowed to go down the tubes"... .

This is very very hurtful to our good men....it may even contribute to resenting having kids. 



I feel incredibly STUPID for putting our kids before my husband as in our situation.... I wasn't even tired (always the ball of energy even staying up later than him)...we remained very close throughout every birth.... we just included them as they came along....they crashed on our bedroom floor, we took them everywhere....he seemed happy. I learned 4 yrs ago though, he was slowly building some resentment towards me because he did want MORE SEX...(his only complaint)

I do feel it is awful to neglect our husbands in this way (biggest regrets I have in life....wish I could re-live those years)..though he wasn't helping matters being so quiet about his needs...not the normal story by far... so if you have a man who IS being vocal about it, telling you how he feels/ showing you with his moves and you are outright dismissing him....even if this leads to some ANGER on his part....I'm going to say... you are blessed he is at least letting you KNOW..... over suffering in silence. This has been my experience. Either way, the man is suffering... one is just letting off steam -while the other is "stuffing". 

I don't feel women "GET IT".. they don't understand what they are doing to their husbands *emotionally*...not to mention how antsy Testosterone can make men...

As women/ wives....we are so used to being satisfied and desired... we have no understanding of how it feels to be on their end....another look of ..."oh gawd...not tonight"....given to our husbands...how crushing....REJECTION STINGS the heart...after awhile, he shuts down....it's just easier that way. Resentment has taken root. 

How long does it take to please a man...15 minutes out of our day....we can't give this? Because we love.....A morning thrill before he goes off to work.... could save a marriage....our attitudes are huge in this ... 

My husband did the honorable thing and put himself down for our 6 children -for yrs.. but what I am saying is this... he shouldn't have had to do that .... I was wrong in NOT considering him more so..how he might have been feeling...what he wanted...I think it's healthy to ask, be up on that..... never let it die....Though we were at least once a weekers or I would be climbing the walls... 

 Sex is an Emotional NEED...Male sexuality is a central part of who he is as both a man and a husband


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> I'm not excusing anything or trying to diminish the hurt that someone feels in either situation. Ive been through some pretty nasty stuff myself so I understand. Although I have never had an emotional affair so I can say I know what that feels like but I can imagine. I actually didn't know one could have an emotional affair without it getting physical until I found this site.
> 
> The thing is not everyone is taught that after you have kids, you have to keep putting your marriage first. Not everyone is taught that financially providing a good life for your family isn't the most important thing you can do. These life lessons are sometimes only learned after you make mistakes or you experience it yourself.
> There is also your past and the influence it has over you. Someone who came from a poor family where financial issues were always causing emotional trauma may think the key to a happy family is making sure that they provide financially. Someone who never felt loved by their mother may think that providing extra love and making their kids a priority is what is important.
> ...


We have established that the emotional damage can be the same. The difference between the two situations you present here is that the with super mom victim the neglected spouse saw and felt the neglect every day over a long period of time, almost like extended torture at the hands of someone who was supposed to love you, where with the EA, you remain blissfully unaware until the day it's exposed. 

The EA, you can walk away from the situation with most peoples full blessing, whereas the super mom victim gets told to give a second chance even though every single day that passed was yet another chance for things to be corrected, yet they never were.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I could never forgive or forget cheating. It would completely ruin any chance of a normal sex life and blow up my trust for life. It's inexcusable on every level. On the other hand, it's easy to understand how a women will hyper focus on her babies for the first several years and deprioritize her husband. It actually seems kind of natural in a way. While it may have a considerable amount of related emotional suffering for the man it is a forgivable offense. This offense doesn't include mind movies of the other man with his unit in her mouth or imply she choose him because she thinks your a lesser man. I think it comes down to how the women handles the situation after she realizes what she did and how long she ignored her husband.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> I could never forgive or forget cheating. It would completely ruin any chance of a normal sex life and blow up my trust for life. It's inexcusable on every level. On the other hand, it's easy to understand how a women will hyper focus on her babies for the first several years and deprioritize her husband. It actually seems kind of natural in a way. While it may have a considerable amount of related emotional suffering for the man it is a forgivable offense. This offense doesn't include mind movies of the other man with his unit in her mouth or imply she choose him because she thinks your a lesser man. I think it comes down to how the women handles the situation after she realizes what she did and how long she ignored her husband.


So prolonged emotional abuse and neglect is forgivable because after all, it was for the kids?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My ex wife was one of those super moms who treated me as an ATM, no respect or appreciation. I hung in there for fifteen years. The straw that broke the camels back was her affair, but you know what? The resentment that had built up over those years had gotten so bad, that I saw the affair as a blessing...a way out without being looked down on. Now that I'm out of the marriage, the affair didn't hurt me at all, but the treatment over those fifteen years still hurts quite a bit.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I don't consider not having sex with someone emotional abuse and I've been through it for a couple of years. To me emotional abuse involves blatant manipulation and lying to get a particular reaction or need fulfilled. In my case my wife didn't use sex as a weapon. She just lost interest in sex after she had our kids. She wasn't evil or calculated about it and she took really good care of our boys.


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

No, I think getting out of balance as a Mom is no where near an affair. Many times the woman may feel like she is doing not only for her kids, 'family', but also husband in being the do it all Mom. She may be following an outdated model whereas that use to be the definition of a good wife and Mom.

It is hard because on the one hand being an incredible Mom is such hard work and should be something her spouse should appreciate and praise and some don't appreciate how much it takes but then there are definitely times the balance is so out of whack that it causes problems for the spouse and even the kids. I have had known people that get like this and then their kids go to school and don't need them so much and the real woman re-emerges even to her surprise it seems.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Doesn't matter if you put kids needs ahead of the spouse, or whatever other reason in the entire universe, neglected needs are neglected needs and will pull a relationship apart.

As for infidelity that is a complete betrayal of trust, and is an instant marriage ender (or should be).


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

No way will I ever equate the two as anything close to similar. 

I would take his attention being full on the kids for the next 20 years if it means it would take away the pain of being cheated on. 

Those are your kids that can't take care of themselves. It is understandable though unfortunate that some parents can get so wrapped up in it, they forget they are married. But there is NOTHING WORSE than your partner actively and deliberately cheating. 

Actually, comparing the two pisses me off. 

I'll trade with any one feeling neglected but not cheated on in a f*cking heartbeat.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

So I've learned a few things. 
Not everyone agrees that cheating is equal to putting your kids before your husband. 
Under some circumstances, people feel the pain and hurt they have experienced from being last on the priority list is equal to being cheated on or at least an emotional affair.
Next time someone says that cheating is the worst thing you can do to a spouse, I have this thread that says some people feel neglecting your marriage because you are trying to be supermom is just as bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

The two are nowhere near in the same league. Zero tolerance for any sort of cheating, I think cheaters are cowards that consciously do the wrong thing for their own gratification.

I would never accept cheating but if my partner was putting the kids first all the time then at least there would be something to work with to fix things.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Kermitty said:


> ...Next time someone says that cheating is the worst thing you can do to a spouse, I have this thread that says some people feel neglecting your marriage because you are trying to be supermom is just as bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Those people have either never been cheated on by their spouse, or else weren't vested.

Not saying that neglecting your marriage is ever ok - the point is, nothing compares to the grief from discovering the most significant person in your life has ruthlessly rejected you and deceptively hid it in order to get their kicks from some piece of scum while also getting the other benefits of marriage with a chump. Cheating requires dishonesty, deceipt, lack of integrity and bad morals.

Maybe there are some overlapping similarities, such as feelings of rejection or bait-and-switch, but atleast the doding parent of your kids isn't being a cake-eater, they are just trying to do what they think is right.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> So prolonged emotional abuse and neglect is forgivable because after all, it was for the kids?


Prolonged emotional abuse and neglect is only possible when it is tolerated, atleast you had a conscious choice to decide what kind of life you were living, if it was so bad you could have gotten out at any point. When it is capped off with an affair as well, no wonder you feel like you put up with that all for nought. Because of her neglect, by the time she had her affair you were pretty much detached and no longer vested anyway, so the affair really was a blessing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Kermitty said:


> So I've learned a few things.
> Not everyone agrees that cheating is equal to putting your kids before your husband.
> Under some circumstances, people feel the pain and hurt they have experienced from being last on the priority list is equal to being cheated on or at least an emotional affair.


I don't know if it equates. I do know that many dismiss the pain that comes when your wife ignores you, even if it is in favor of your children. Being dismissed as an ATM is a horrible experience. 



> Next time someone says that cheating is the worst thing you can do to a spouse, I have this thread that says some people feel neglecting your marriage because you are trying to be supermom is just as bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If that is your agenda, go to it. Dismissing the neglect because it is not as bad as something else seems a bit convenient.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Both cheating and neglecting a marriage are, at their core, a spouse's choice to funnel the emotional energy they should be providing to their spouse and marriage to a third party.

Both cases show a lack of empathy and maturity toward the spouse being affected by the cheating or neglect.

I suppose I'd say the super-mom is marginally better, only because the character flaws involved in that are fixable if she is willing to put in the work, and also that the recipient of all the emotional energy was the kids and not some other guy.

By far, the worst is a super-mom who is unaware of how her actions killed off a marriage, blames the spouse for lack of connection, and then has an affair on top of it. There should be a special place in the afterlife reserved for these people.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The common denominator is cake eating. Women like this get the kids, to be supported financially, lunches with friends, hours playing Facebook, taking their little darlings to dance class and baseball while the dad is supposed to just pay for it while getting nothing in return. No appreciation, little sex, no affection, nothing. Mom is living the life of her dreams while dad is miserable.

This is very similar to an EA. Wife gets her needs met and spends her energy on everything but her husband.

This also applies to workaholics, gamers, addictions, hobbies, friends, extended family, etc. if someone's heart is invested heavily elsewhere with no consideration to the spouse it's cake eating.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> This also applies to workaholics, gamers, addictions, hobbies, friends, extended family, etc. if someone's heart is invested heavily elsewhere with no consideration to the spouse it's cake eating.


+1


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Holland said:


> The two are nowhere near in the same league. Zero tolerance for any sort of cheating, I think cheaters are cowards that consciously do the wrong thing for their own gratification.
> 
> *I would never accept cheating but if my partner was putting the kids first all the time then at least there would be something to work with to fix things*.


I understand what you are saying and to some extent I agree, but the assumption you appear to be making is that the super mom acknowledes that there is a problem. If both parties can't accept that there is a problem, there is nothing to work with to fix things.

The problem with the super mom is even getting them to recognize that there is a problem at all. They get so wrapped up in everything, and taking things for granted that they honestly believe that everything is fine because their focus is so narrow that anything happening that doesn't fit in their vision is dismissed.

At least with an affair, it is completely obvious that the person who had the affair was wrong. They may justify and rationalize, but in the end, the WS generally knows they did something wrong. They may not care that they did, but they still know that they did.


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## saving relationships (Apr 22, 2013)

It is not about what is worse, They both shouldn't happen in a healthy relationship.

In healthy marriages time spent with your spouse and the kids at the same time is crucial. Constructive family activities and Recreational hobbies are very important to share.

But no matter what age the kids are, you and your spouse still need to have your together time. The most important thing to do is talk regularly, and honestly about any issues you or your spouse are having and figure out a way to fix them.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???*



samyeagar said:


> At least with an affair, it is completely obvious that the person who had the affair was wrong. They may justify and rationalize, but in the end, the WS generally knows they did something wrong. They may not care that they did, but they still know that they did.


What does right and wrong have anything to do with it? It's all about making it work and having trust in your spouse and faith in your marriage.


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

When I think about being neglected because my husband is working too much, well a great deal of that work is for me and the kids. If I consider a husband not giving me enough attention because he is so into the kids, well, again they are my kids who I know need attention too and I love them and so that benefits me somewhat also. Putting me aside so he can sleep with and emotionally invest in someone else outside of marriage? Um, no, no benefit to me or the kids. There is an enormous difference in my opinion. All 3 are issues to be addressed but a huge difference between them imo.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> The common denominator is cake eating. Women like this get the kids, to be supported financially, lunches with friends, hours playing Facebook, taking their little darlings to dance class and baseball while the dad is supposed to just pay for it while getting nothing in return. No appreciation, little sex, no affection, nothing. Mom is living the life of her dreams while dad is miserable.
> 
> This is very similar to an EA. Wife gets her needs met and spends her energy on everything but her husband.
> 
> This also applies to workaholics, gamers, addictions, hobbies, friends, extended family, etc. if someone's heart is invested heavily elsewhere with no consideration to the spouse it's cake eating.


She looked at it as what is she going to get out of it...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> What does right and wrong have anything to do with it? It's all about making it work and having trust in your spouse and faith in your marriage.


When you are consistantly dismissed, you can no longer trust your spouse with your thoughts and feelings, and the faith in your marriage is devistated.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???*



samyeagar said:


> When you are consistantly dismissed, you can no longer trust your spouse with your thoughts and feelings, and the faith in your marriage is devistated.


Well the difference is you know what you are getting, there is no dishonesty, no deception, and no wanton act of harm, and nobody outside the marriage receiving affection that should be reserved for you. It certainly can be a dealbreaker and end the marriage and perturb the faith, but I don't see how it erodes trust or can be seen as devastating, it is not some unforeseeable force that blindsides you, nor is it a one sided situation.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

wifeiam said:


> When I think about being neglected because my husband is working too much, well a great deal of that work is for me and the kids. If I consider a husband not giving me enough attention because he is so into the kids, well, again they are my kids who I know need attention too and I love them and so that benefits me somewhat also. Putting me aside so he can sleep with and emotionally invest in someone else outside of marriage? Um, no, no benefit to me or the kids. There is an enormous difference in my opinion. All 3 are issues to be addressed but a huge difference between them imo.


Not trying to invalidate this, but the level of neglect you are describing is very superficial in comparison to a full blown affair.

This would likely explain why you find such a big difference between the two.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> The common denominator is cake eating. Women like this get the kids, to be supported financially, lunches with friends, hours playing Facebook, taking their little darlings to dance class and baseball while the dad is supposed to just pay for it while getting nothing in return. No appreciation, little sex, no affection, nothing. Mom is living the life of her dreams while dad is miserable.


I don't know any moms who would describe their days like this, especially with young ones at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> If that is your agenda, go to it. Dismissing the neglect because it is not as bad as something else seems a bit convenient.


I'm not dismissing anything. Neglect hurts no matter the reason for it.
My reason for even asking the question was based on something said on another thread. To prevent hijacking that thread, I brought it here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Kermitty said:


> I don't know any moms who would describe their days like this, especially with young ones at home.


Ummm... would you expect them to?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I can't see how cheating and neglect really compare. Ultimately the result may be the same (broken marriage), but the process is alot different. Long-term neglect is the death of a thousand cuts; it slices off small pieces of your soul and marriage until there's nothing left. Cheating is more like getting hit with a large caliber round in the chest.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Ummm... would you expect them to?


Let me rephrase then. I don't know any stay at home moms whose days are like this, especially with young ones at home. I guess diminishing what a stay at home mom does is offensive to me and I can't help but comment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

putting AP in front of kids- even worse


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Kermitty said:


> Let me rephrase then. I don't know any stay at home moms whose days are like this, especially with young ones at home.


The idea is that the stay at home moms you have seen are not 100% representative of all stay at home moms.

It's not stay at home moms that are the problem, it's the cake-eating supermoms that were described earlier that are.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???*



Acorn said:


> The idea is that the stay at home moms you have seen are not 100% representative of all stay at home moms.
> 
> It's not stay at home moms that are the problem, it's the cake-eating supermoms that were described earlier that are.


The cake-eating supermoms (if such a woman exists) would be easy to deal with, because we are only responsible for what we can control, and providing the cake as fast as she eats it is under your control, if you don't like the way you are being treated then enforce your boundaries and don't enable such behavior. But if she decides to take it outside the marriage that is all on her, it is outside the realm of your control, there is no reaction you can have that allows for a healthy compromise when your spouse cheats.


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> Let me rephrase then. I don't know any stay at home moms whose days are like this, especially with young ones at home. I guess diminishing what a stay at home mom does is offensive to me and I can't help but comment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me too. To the degree that IF the spouse held the opinion that he works all day and all she does is play with the kids I could see where that lack of respect for her efforts could be at the core of the marital issue. The wife would then naturally pull away from him (if she felt a hurtful disrespect) and toward those that do appreciate her contributions-her kids. 

That being said if a couple agrees to have one spouse work for an income and one stay at home with the kids both should equally respect the hard work the other is doing or consider not having that arrangement. It isn't for everyone.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Lon said:


> The cake-eating supermoms (if such a woman exists) would be easy to deal with, because we are only responsible for what we can control, and providing the cake as fast as she eats it is under your control, if you don't like the way you are being treated then enforce your boundaries and don't enable such behavior. But if she decides to take it outside the marriage that is all on her, it is outside the realm of your control, there is no reaction you can have that allows for a healthy compromise when your spouse cheats.


So if my spouse pours her emotional energy in any form of neglect (except an affair), such as working 14 hour days, spending all her time away from the house on playdates with other moms, or staying up on Facebook all night every night, that's within my control, but if she pours it into an affair, that's outside my control.

And if I determine that her actions are neglectful, I can set boundaries, but if I determine she's cheating, I have no appropriate way of reacting?

That certainly is an interesting way of looking at it. 

I guess I'll just agree to disagree on this one.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???*



Acorn said:


> So if my spouse pours her emotional energy in any form of neglect (except an affair), such as working 14 hour days, spending all her time away from the house on playdates with other moms, or staying up on Facebook all night every night, that's within my control, but if she pours it into an affair, that's outside my control.
> 
> And if I determine that her actions are neglectful, I can set boundaries, but if I determine she's cheating, I have no appropriate way of reacting?
> 
> ...


If she is deliberately neglecting your needs, you communicate those needs and she still intentionally refuses to try to meet your needs, you are in a one sided relationship and you should cut her loose. an affair would meet this criteria, but in an even more deliberate and hurtful way.

So an affair cuts to the quick but there is definitely merit to the suggestion that a spouse who is unwilling to try to meet the others needs can destroy a relationship as thoroughly as an affair. In cases where the neglect is not deliberate, the communication hasn't been effective or there is no intention of harming, both share a part in the blame.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> Is this really the general consensus? If anything, it depends on the situation. Just getting stuck in the mindset that your children should be the priority shouldn't necessarily equate you with someone who does the same amount of emotional damage as someone who cheats on their spouse.
> 
> When kids are very small, there is hardly time to sleep, let alone time for you as a couple. Once you realize you are on the path to cheating, it is a very conscious daily decision that you are doing something wrong. Being a parent of young children and neglecting even yourself, isn't something you are consciously aware of as wrong.
> 
> ...


A friend's husband cheated as a result of her neglecting him in favor of their daughter.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

They are currently divorced.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Women who put the "kids ahead of the husband" don't know why they have it all wrong.

If your husband is being a husband and doing his job within the relationship and supporting you and the children you HAVE to respect the husband first and then the kids.

If the kids thinks the wife runs over the husband or that the kids can run over the husband, it's not what you want to teach them.

The husband and wife should always be a combined unit, whose needs come first above all others.

When they are taking care of their relationship, it implies by default that they take care of the children.

When a woman puts the kids ahead of the husband, they usually treat the husband like a lesser entity than the children, and it's not a healthy dynamic. Do you really was a woman want to teach your son that's what he should expect as a man?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Women who put the "kids ahead of the husband" don't know why they have it all wrong.
> 
> If your husband is being a husband and doing his job within the relationship and supporting you and the children you HAVE to respect the husband first and then the kids.
> 
> ...


I agree with a healthy balance between kids and spouse and putting the well being of the marriage as priority. 
Thats not really what is being debated here though....


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Lon said:


> If she is deliberately neglecting your needs, you communicate those needs and she still intentionally refuses to try to meet your needs, you are in a one sided relationship and you should cut her loose. an affair would meet this criteria, but in an even more deliberate and hurtful way.


I don't know, maybe I am just an odd ball, but having been cheated on in a LTR and having been neglected for years on end in my marriage, I honestly think I'd take the cheating. It hurt like hell, but it's pretty obvious what to do after that and you definitely have the moral high ground to boot. When you are being neglected and repeatedly told, "Just keep the checks coming, things will be better and I'll have more time for you in a month/year/2 years/etc.", it truly makes you crazy.

And yes, if you have your wits about you, you can see the neglect happening in front of you and distance yourself from it, but the sad truth is that you can also see it pretty clearly a lot of the time in infidelity too IMO. (Just peruse how the cheating threads on TAM go at the start for proof.) I think in both cases, the spouse receiving the poor treatment is just blind to it because of their devotion and blind faith and trust in their spouse, and it is that betrayal of that trust that makes these two actions similar. It's splitting hairs after that point to me.

Both actions can be complete relationship killers. Also, both are forgivable to some people. It really depends on what the person on the receiving end of these betrayals is made up of and what hurts them the most, I suppose.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Cheating just as bad as putting kids before husband ???*



Acorn said:


> I don't know, maybe I am just an odd ball, but having been cheated on in a LTR and having been neglected for years on end in my marriage, I honestly think I'd take the cheating. It hurt like hell, but it's pretty obvious what to do after that and you definitely have the moral high ground to boot. When you are being neglected and repeatedly told, "Just keep the checks coming, things will be better and I'll have more time for you in a month/year/2 years/etc.", it truly makes you crazy.
> 
> And yes, if you have your wits about you, you can see the neglect happening in front of you and distance yourself from it, but the sad truth is that you can also see it pretty clearly a lot of the time in infidelity too IMO. (Just peruse how the cheating threads on TAM go at the start for proof.) I think in both cases, the spouse receiving the poor treatment is just blind to it because of their devotion and blind faith and trust in their spouse, and it is that betrayal of that trust that makes these two actions similar. It's splitting hairs after that point to me.
> 
> Both actions can be complete relationship killers. Also, both are forgivable to some people. It really depends on what the person on the receiving end of these betrayals is made up of and what hurts them the most, I suppose.


When I found out about my ex's affair, along with the pain, there was also a sense of relief. I was neglected (and also neglectful) and it was miserable, however I was coping with that. I could have handled that indefinitely assuming there was no infidelity, but of course what I wanted was for us both to overcome the unmet needs, and I thought I had a lifetime to get there. Maybe if the affair wasn't borne from neglected relationship needs it would have stung much less, but how often do affairs truly just happen randomly in a healthy relationship?


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## MyrnaLoy (Apr 23, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> Is this really the general consensus? If anything, it depends on the situation. Just getting stuck in the mindset that your children should be the priority shouldn't necessarily equate you with someone who does the same amount of emotional damage as someone who cheats on their spouse.
> 
> When kids are very small, there is hardly time to sleep, let alone time for you as a couple. Once you realize you are on the path to cheating, it is a very conscious daily decision that you are doing something wrong. Being a parent of young children and neglecting even yourself, isn't something you are consciously aware of as wrong.
> 
> ...


Cheating is way worse. As others have said-- being a 'super mom' would be comparable to a workaholic. Both things start off benefitting the family as a whole, but end up being taken to the extreme and leaving a spouse feeling neglected. All of these can lead to divorce, but that doesn't mean much in regards to how wrong the actions are. Of course the problem is that these situations are all variable and mean different things to different people. IME, cheating is more common than this 'super mom' phenomenon. I'm a SAHM in my early 30s, so I know a lot of parents, and I maybe know 1 woman who could fit into this category. Most are happy to have nights off from the kids and seem to miss sex too. Of course, it is impossible to know what happens behind closed doors. But I've seen more cheaters (of both sexes). 

A lot of times the 'super mom' years are the same as the 'workaholic' years-- the early years when you are trying to build your career and have a young family at the same time. So both spouses have to be understanding and compassionate towards each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

MyrnaLoy said:


> A lot of times the 'super mom' years are the same as the 'workaholic' years-- the early years when you are trying to build your career and have a young family at the same time. So both spouses have to be understanding and compassionate towards each other.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a good point. While I have seen on the boards and irl representation of stay at home as being living off of the spouse and living the dream I think it is hard work and it makes me sad to see it devalued. I can't help but wonder if these Moms are being taken for granted for all they do while simultaneously being accused of taking their spouse for granted! The key really is MUTUAL understanding, respect, and compassion.

My pov on this comes from having been a sahm, a working Mom, and at one time being a sole bread winner with a sahd spouse. So I know if it is being done right everyone is working hard and needs to feel appreciated, not just the one bringing home a paycheck.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

wifeiam said:


> This is a good point. While I have seen on the boards and irl representation of stay at home as being living off of the spouse and living the dream I think it is hard work and it makes me sad to see it devalued. I can't help but wonder if these Moms are being taken for granted for all they do while simultaneously being accused of taking their spouse for granted! The key really is MUTUAL understanding, respect, and compassion.
> 
> My pov on this comes from having been a sahm, a working Mom, and at one time being a sole bread winner with a sahd spouse. So I know if it is being done right everyone is working hard and needs to feel appreciated, not just the one bringing home a paycheck.


All true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I think the answer is obvious...A cheater makes a conscious decision to betrey their life partner...COLD BLOODED DECISION

A mom getting wrapped up in caring for young children resulting in sleep deprivation, fatigue, and stress, on top of possible post partum depression, the trauma of childbirth, and the husband getting less than he thinks he deserves......Not a stone cold decision on the womans part....It's called LIFE....

A man should be able to contend with this in a grown up manner........

And, Hell no it shouldn't mean no sex till the kiddies are in college.....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> I think the answer is obvious...A cheater makes a conscious decision to betrey their life partner...COLD BLOODED DECISION
> 
> A mom getting wrapped up in caring for young children resulting in sleep deprivation, fatigue, and stress, on top of possible post partum depression, the trauma of childbirth, and the husband getting less than he thinks he deserves......Not a stone cold decision on the womans part....It's called LIFE....
> 
> ...


I agree including it shouldn't mean no sex til kids are in college. When I think about being neglected due to my kids who I have a mutual love and affection for and who are minors that can't fend for themselves or some skank doing my husband I would much rather a million times over choose the first. Fact is before having kids I kind of realized that they can take over life a bit because they need LOTS of attention and I decided to go forth with it. Doesn't mean some don't get crazy with it far beyond those needy preschool years which isn't best for anyone...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

See thats the thing, someone who makes a cold calculated decision is more likely to be able to recognized what they did as wrong as opposed to someone who honestly believes they are doing the right thing.

It is a lot harder to rationalize away the hurt caused by an affair than it is the neglect of a super mom because after all, it was for the kids right?

Just to be clear here, we are not talking about about normal situations here. I know that life happens, and that kids need attention. When I think of the super mom, I am thinking about situations like mine that were not normal. I know that I'm not the only one to have gone through it as there are others here on TAM who know exactly what I am talking about, and unless you have gone through it, with all due respect, you really can't relate. The threads by ITHFG have shown me this.

Think about this...the situation in my case was so bad, the emotional detachment was so complete that an affair was seen as a relief. That emotional detachment didn't happen because I got turned down a couple of times for sex, or becase we had to stay home with sick kids rather than go on a date night. It was systematic emotional abuse and neglect over the course of many years, it was constant invalidation of feelings, it was constant denial, and the kids just happened to be her insrtument to do it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> I don't know any moms who would describe their days like this, especially with young ones at home.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know a few. They cheated in addition to playing all day on their husbands dime. Their husbands made good money and these women lacked for nothing.

The super mom routine wasn't sustainable so they sought solace in shopping, booze and OM.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

Kermitty, I understand what you are saying. I have a 9 month old baby who has had some medical issues. The first 4 months of his life he was practically screaming 24 hours a day. His sleep is still horrible but the only way any of us get sleep is if he's sleeping with us (up every 2 hours and awful short naps). I don't think anyone could say I was being a bad wife for tending to this newborn who needed me. I tried as much as I could to give my husband attention but I only have so much energy to go around. I thought dedicating myself to taking care of the baby we planned together would be enough for him to stay dedicated to me, but he had an EA. I honestly don't see how anyone could say it was somehow my fault, or I was equally to blame because I have been taking care of the baby.

FWIW, we are starting the crib transition in a few weeks even though it's not something I want to do at this time. I'm doing it out of fear my husband is going to have another A and not get caught.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

distraughtfromtexas said:


> Kermitty, I understand what you are saying. I have a 9 month old baby who has had some medical issues. The first 4 months of his life he was practically screaming 24 hours a day. His sleep is still horrible but the only way any of us get sleep is if he's sleeping with us (up every 2 hours and awful short naps). I don't think anyone could say I was being a bad wife for tending to this newborn who needed me. I tried as much as I could to give my husband attention but I only have so much energy to go around. I thought dedicating myself to taking care of the baby we planned together would be enough for him to stay dedicated to me, but he had an EA. I honestly don't see how anyone could say it was somehow my fault, or I was equally to blame because I have been taking care of the baby.
> 
> FWIW, we are starting the crib transition in a few weeks even though it's not something I want to do at this time. I'm doing it out of fear my husband is going to have another A and not get caught.


You didn't do anything wrong.((((HUGS)))) HE DID!


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## creative (Apr 23, 2013)

100% agree with dallasapple, you don't have control over what goes on his thoughts or emotion, he has. He needs to take responsibility for his actions


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

creative said:


> 100% agree with dallasapple, you don't have control over what goes on his thoughts or emotion, he has. He needs to take responsibility for his actions


HA! You agreed with me???:smthumbup:

Cool.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

distraughtfromtexas said:


> Kermitty, I understand what you are saying. I have a 9 month old baby who has had some medical issues. The first 4 months of his life he was practically screaming 24 hours a day. His sleep is still horrible but the only way any of us get sleep is if he's sleeping with us (up every 2 hours and awful short naps). I don't think anyone could say I was being a bad wife for tending to this newborn who needed me. I tried as much as I could to give my husband attention but I only have so much energy to go around. I thought dedicating myself to taking care of the baby we planned together would be enough for him to stay dedicated to me, but he had an EA. I honestly don't see how anyone could say it was somehow my fault, or I was equally to blame because I have been taking care of the baby.
> 
> FWIW, we are starting the crib transition in a few weeks even though it's not something I want to do at this time. I'm doing it out of fear my husband is going to have another A and not get caught.


I'm so sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I hope things get better and thanks for sharing your story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

These 2 different situations can't even be compared. If one spouse puts the child/ren first, the other spouse is at least glad that she/ he is a good parent and their focus is still inside the house, on one particular aspect of the family which is their kid- the fruit of their union. Love for an offspring and love for a SO are two different kind of loves. Can't compare this with cheating, where the WS takes the exact kind of love that belongs to their spouse outside of the marriage. 
Nevertheless, neglecting your husband once you gave birth is not acceptable. If you do, don't be surprised on your D-day...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Hortensia said:


> These 2 different situations can't even be compared. If one spouse puts the child/ren first, the other spouse is at least glad that she/ he is a good parent and their focus is still inside the house, on one particular aspect of the family which is their kid- the fruit of their union.


Actually, that is not necessarily true. It may be. But majority of the "super moms" I have seen all too often do their children a fair amount of harm. The singular focus seems to stunt the children.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Both scenarios have the potential to wreck a marriage. Wreck your marriage and you destabilize your family. IMO, it's lose/lose.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Cosmos said:


> Both scenarios have the potential to wreck a marriage. Wreck your marriage and you destabilize your family. IMO, it's lose/lose.


:iagree:


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's hurt and pain. Either scenario can cause a great deal and I don't want to compare that. It does seem that when a WS comes onto TAM for advice on an issue apart from the cheating, they will get battered by most. If it is a matter of a spouse neglecting their SO for work or kids, most people are more sympathetic. By that comparison alone, seems that the majority of people on this site think cheating is worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Kermitty said:


> I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's hurt and pain. Either scenario can cause a great deal and I don't want to compare that. It does seem that when a WS comes onto TAM for advice on an issue apart from the cheating, they will get battered by most. If it is a matter of a spouse neglecting their SO for work or kids, most people are more sympathetic. By that comparison alone, seems that the majority of people on this site think cheating is worse.


What is happening in this thread is that people are comparing between being the victim of cheating and being the stressed out mom doing the neglecting. Only one of those people is actually a victim of bad behavior.

The victim of cheating will never be able to rationalize the cheating. The stressed out mom will, however, be able to rationalize the neglecting. It is comparing apples and oranges.


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