# Ok when should the purposal come



## Wolf1974

So 2 nights ago was an exceptionally slow night due to some bad weather. So a group of us were having a round robin discussion about marriage purposals.

It was 4 guys and three women all of us had one divorce but were either remarried, living together or engaged. What started this conversation is one of the ladies was just proposed to after 3 years dating. This of course was sore subject to her friend that is in year 4 and not yet engaged. So the subjects came up about timelines..

Across the board all the guys were like 5 years plus before even thinking about purposal. Two of the women were 3 years is along enough and the other was adamant about 18 months no longer.

Since most of us here have had a divorce, and yes I do think that changes things, I would like to pose the same question to a larger Audience to see if their really is a gender issue on this. So how long are you willing to wait or will you wait to consider getting remarried.

For me I decided long ago that I would never marry again until I at least knew a woman for 5 years and lived with her at least 3.


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## 225985

11 months


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## Adiron

Never. 

Especially among people that have one failed marriage behind them.


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## arbitrator

*With first XW, about 16 months!

And with my RSXW, and with all of her incessant prodding, it took about 6 months! 

But please take note that that short of an engagement will damned well never happen to Ol' Arb ever again! Let's just say that I'd much rather have an inflamed hemorrhoid excised, sans Novocain or anesthesia, with a rusty pruning fork!*


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## MrsHolland

Adiron said:


> Never.
> 
> Especially among people that have one failed marriage behind them.


Are you talking about yourself or are you super imposing this POV on the rest of the population? I have been divorced but I did not have a failed marriage. I remarried and am extremely happy.

As for the OP IMHO 5 years seems a reasonable time frame for the actual proposal and marriage. About the 2 or so year mark to start having the discussion on whether or not marriage is in the couples future.


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## Vinnydee

I proposed 3 weeks after we met. Married for over 44 years and still going. I was engaged for one year with my ex-fiancee before she cheated. I like the BandAid proposal. Do it quickly and get it over with. 

Actually I think time is not as important as how well you know each other. You also need to know if you are sexually compatible or end up like so many others complaining about their lack of sex or kind of sex. My wife and I just felt it immediately and after taking her virginity I knew she was for me. She was not the classic virgin. She did everything else but intercourse and that everything else was great to make up for the lack of PIV. When PIV was added. It was great and I was right.


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## GuyInColorado

I seperated in 01/2016, divorced 06/2016. Started dating the girl in 02/2016 and proposed 02/2017. Meh, you know within a few months if she is someone that you want to wake up next to every day for the rest of your life. If it doesn't work out, I'll find someone else. But hopefully it continues. Buying a house and living together next month and will get married end of the year.


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## Cooper

At the age of 56 words like girlfriend, boyfriend, fiancee, proposal, all seem kind of silly to me so at this point in my life there probably will never be another proposal or another engagement. For the youngsters out there I would say a minimum of one year of serious dating before a proposal and two years of engagement before marrying. I may be crucified for saying this but I also think you should live together for a bit before marrying. I didn't use to feel this way but age has brought me wisdom and I have learned you really don't know someone until you have shared living space with them, not just an occasional weekend, but six months or so.


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## Satya

My first husband and I were together for about a year before he proposed. We did not marry until 4 years later, as I was completing college. 

My second husband proposed a year after we dated. We actually proposed together to each other on the 1 year anniversary after meeting. Originally, we were set to marry a year after the proposal, but we knew we wanted to be married sooner, so we bumped the wedding up 6 months, had a simple ceremony, and kept the original date as a celebration party.

My best girlfriend has been in a relationship for 2 years longer than us, not been proposed to yet. Would be the second marriage for her and her bf, as well. I know she was once jealous, but she and I have worked together on her jealousy over other matters. She used to compare herself to others all the time, now she looks at only herself. I know she's happy and has a good life with her man. She's decided to let the hope of engagement go for now and enjoy the relationship. 

My personal opinion is that if both parties lead honest lives when dating, you'll know in 1 year if you want to get engaged. Stay engaged for one more year and see how that year goes, then if all is well still, get married. 

A 5 year wait is personally too long for me. If it takes 5 years for a man to vet me well enough, he can't be decisive. I say that because I lay it all on the table from the start. Odo knew what he was getting the moment we were exclusive, as did I. Then I showed him consistently for 2 years that I was that person. I'm still that person. It took him less than a year to know what he wanted but to be fair to us both I asked him to give the relationship the year we deserved to experience first. 

I think many women believe 2-3 years is ample time to know someone, provided they're being honest. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Rowan

In my experience, if someone is being intentionally deceptive, any amount of time won't be long enough. My ex-husband and I dated for 5+ years before we married. He still turned out to be a serial cheater. 

I think that if the intent is actually to marry, it seems a bit silly to intentionally wait five years to get engaged. Asking someone to give you five years of their life on the off chance you may decide you'd like to marry them after all just starts to feel like commitment issues, or like you're perhaps stalling to see if something better comes along. If it really takes half a decade to figure out whether or not your partner is the one for you, then one or both of you is doing it wrong. I think it you want to be married to your partner, 2-3 years of exclusive dating - preferably with at least a few months of living together - is probably reasonable for getting engaged. 

If marriage isn't your goal, just be honest and find a partner who agrees. There are people, like me, who just aren't particularly concerned about ever remarrying. If we decide at some point that we'd like to marry, that would be great. If we decide we'd rather not bother with it, then that's just fine with me as well. But it's a discussion that needs to be had in order to ensure that everyone is on-board with the life-plan. I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding that a serious difference in preferred timelines is a deal breaker. It's not that it's right or wrong to want to wait 5+ years, but that both partners need to be in agreement on it.


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## Primrose

Time is subjective. I truly believe that you just know when it's right regardless of if 1 year has passed or five. 

I've been with my boyfriend for a little over a year and we both know we will be getting married in the foreseeable future. 

As an aside, my parents met in a bar one night. They went home together that very night (no, not smart) and haven't been apart since. They were married within 3 months and are still going strong today, 36 years later. I just like telling their little story because love stories like that don't happen often.


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## Bananapeel

For me, I'd say never unless I met a woman that checked 100% of my boxes. I think that a proposal will usually take longer for a second marriage simply because naivety has been replaced with life experience, and that makes people a bit more hesitant. I'd be interested in making a population based graph on how long it took for a guy to propose for the first marriage vs. how long for the second marriage. I bet that in general it will take couple years longer than it took the first time for him to ask a woman.


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## jb02157

I don't really think it's a timeline thing or something that could be put on a timeline. Marriage is just plain a bad idea for men the way that divorce laws are these days. 

Times have changed and people really aren't after the traditional marriage situation anymore with the 2.5 kids and the house in the suburbs with the white picket fence. Marriages are designed to place all responsibility on men and if they fail to have the marriage end assuring the women are taken care of while men get none of those assurances and if they are poor afterward, that's fine and dandy. Thankfully, men are starting to realize this and put off or not consider marriage. The concept of traditional marriage today is broken. If it were such a great thing why does it fail more than half the time? It's definitely better for men to not marry and be able to leave the relationship without having to go broke.


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## AtMyEnd

We were together about 5 months before I moved in with her and then I think it was about 3 months after that that I proposed. We were engaged for a little over a year before we got married. She was finishing college and we didn't want the wedding to interfere with school. A lot of people had said that things went quick but it all just felt right. I think if we ever get divorced I don't know if I'd ever remarry. A lot has happened in the last 2-3 years that's opened my eyes to a lot, some good and some bad. I think if I were to ever remarry it would need to be a perfect situation. I'm not saying no arguments, fights or disagreements, it would be more about how those things are dealt with. My wife and I now do get along very well, most of the time. But when we get in arguments we both handle the resolution part of it horribly, lol. I've made a lot of effort and progress over the last year of how I handle those situations and she has too, but it still always seems to end in a shutdown or withdrawal from one of us for a little while instead of actually resolving the problem. You live and you learn I guess, and you play the hand you're dealt the best you can.


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## Keke24

Well it's almost 6 years now and there's no discussion on marriage. There is growing discussion on the seriousness of the relationship however and consensus on a commitment to staying together and eventually raise a family. 

I've been averse to marriage for a long time and I'm only now becoming more open to the idea. I can't say that I am absolutely ready to marry this man but I assume many people are not truly 'ready' the first time.


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## Evinrude58

Due to what happened to me recently, I think it's wise to date a couple of years and give time for the honeymoon period to lessen and get the rise colored glasses off.

I'm unmarried after the two years, still love her like I did two months into the relationship, and it's likely that we will break up for good--- are now, although we were engaged and in two months of married when things went downhill.

It takes a while to really know someone. I dated my ex wife for 4 years before marrying. Anything over two years is a waste to me. Just get married. There's never a guarantee that things won't go south, no matter how careful one is. Life and people just can't be planned. Things just happen.


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## Hope1964

Wolf1974 said:


> For me I decided long ago that I would never marry again until I at least knew a woman for 5 years and lived with her at least 3.


There's nothing wrong with this, as long as the women you date for a while know about it. What isn't fair is to date someone for 4.5 years and never tell them that you have this timeline for yourself going on.

If my marriage broke up I don't think I'd marry again. I might do something like a commitment ceremony on a private beach somewhere just between the two of us, but not a full blown wedding. Those are for young people.


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## Wolf1974

Hope1964 said:


> There's nothing wrong with this, as long as the women you date for a while know about it. What isn't fair is to date someone for 4.5 years and never tell them that you have this timeline for yourself going on.
> 
> If my marriage broke up I don't think I'd marry again. I might do something like a commitment ceremony on a private beach somewhere just between the two of us, but not a full blown wedding. Those are for young people.


Well it's more of a minimum in my mind to consider marriage not to get married. But I get what you're saying. I never promise to anyone, except once, that if they were patient enough a marriage would result. Right now marriage is really not on my priority list. But I am aware enough to know I should never say never .... didn't think I would be divorced either. We never know where life will take us


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## jb02157

Wolf1974 said:


> Well it's more of a minimum in my mind to consider marriage not to get married. But I get what you're saying. I never promise to anyone, except once, that if they were patient enough a marriage would result. Right now marriage is really not on my priority list. But I am aware enough to know I should never say never .... didn't think I would be divorced either. We never know where life will take us


I never thought I'd be divorced either or get into a ****ty marriage. I think chances are I'm going to have to get divorced whether I want to or not. Once divorced it would really be hard for me to do it again. It would have to be a nearly perfect situation.


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## Wolf1974

jb02157 said:


> I never thought I'd be divorced either or get into a ****ty marriage. I think chances are I'm going to have to get divorced whether I want to or not. Once divorced it would really be hard for me to do it again. It would have to be a nearly perfect situation.


Hopefully you will find happiness as I have in leading your own life after divorce. It is hard, maybe foolish, to put SO much of what we are and who we are in a relationship. After all realtionships have two people and no matter how well you caretake your end the other person can still decide to leave. When you place yourself first you are solely responsible for your own happiness. I have to say it's fantastic, fulfilling and no fear associated with it.


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## Evinrude58

Hope1964 said:


> There's nothing wrong with this, as long as the women you date for a while know about it. What isn't fair is to date someone for 4.5 years and never tell them that you have this timeline for yourself going on.
> 
> If my marriage broke up I don't think I'd marry again. I might do something like a commitment ceremony on a private beach somewhere just between the two of us, but not a full blown wedding. Those are for young people.


Isn't a "commitment ceremony" just a low key wedding? 😋


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## Evinrude58

I think if you find someone that you admire for their character, and fall crazy in love with them--- you'll want to get married. Best not to anyway, if that doesn't happen.


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## Chuck71

I knew my XW 18 months prior to. M roughly two years after met. It's a mixed bag for everyone and age plays a huge part. Also does how many previous D, age of kids, state of affairs with their XW / XH.

Some may wait longer if kids are within a year or two from leaving for college. Most will certainly weigh in the balance of assets. If one has an 8:1 ratio in assets and the "1" is pushing engagement / M. the "8" will have cause for alarm.


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## Hope1964

Evinrude58 said:


> Isn't a "commitment ceremony" just a low key wedding? 😋


Yes but without all the legal crap. Not that that really makes a difference any more - once you've lived together for a few months the law considers you married. "Getting married" is symbolic in so many ways - "living together" doesn't carry the same connotation.


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## Chuck71

Hope1964 said:


> Yes but without all the legal crap. Not that that really makes a difference any more - *once you've lived together for a few months the law considers you married.* "Getting married" is symbolic in so many ways - "living together" doesn't carry the same connotation.


Holy bat-sheet.... I had a friend crash here for four months while his D was going on. Does that mean

me n him's married??


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## WorkingWife

I think it depends on where you both want the relationship to go. At my age (over 50) if I was out there again I would not be in a hurry to marry and would not be worried about that as long as we were both happy in the relationship. But if I decided getting married again was my goal, I definitely would not give some guy 5 years to test me out. And I don't think I will EVER live with someone outside of marriage again. Too many down sides for the woman.

I think a good year of dating followed by a year long engagement would be about right for me if we're both adults and both want to end up married again.

For your friends, it sounds like the girls know they want marriage and the guys are ambivalent. Those girls would probably wise to look for someone who shares their goal of wanting marriage and use what they learned about themselves and relationships from their divorce to find a better match this time. Pushing a reluctant person to marry you does not end well. Just ask @arbitrator! 

If a guy is still hesitant to marry 3,4,5 years in -- he's just not that into you.





Wolf1974 said:


> So 2 nights ago was an exceptionally slow night due to some bad weather. So a group of us were having a round robin discussion about marriage purposals.
> 
> It was 4 guys and three women all of us had one divorce but were either remarried, living together or engaged. What started this conversation is one of the ladies was just proposed to after 3 years dating. This of course was sore subject to her friend that is in year 4 and not yet engaged. So the subjects came up about timelines..
> 
> Across the board all the guys were like 5 years plus before even thinking about purposal. Two of the women were 3 years is along enough and the other was adamant about 18 months no longer.
> 
> Since most of us here have had a divorce, and yes I do think that changes things, I would like to pose the same question to a larger Audience to see if their really is a gender issue on this. So how long are you willing to wait or will you wait to consider getting remarried.
> 
> For me I decided long ago that I would never marry again until I at least knew a woman for 5 years and lived with her at least 3.


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## Vega

Hope1964 said:


> Yes but without all the legal crap. Not that that really makes a difference any more - *once you've lived together for a few months the law considers you married.* "Getting married" is symbolic in so many ways - "living together" doesn't carry the same connotation.


No, it doesn't. It depends on the laws of your state. In most states, just "living together" does NOT constitute a common law marriage, no matter how long you've lived together. 

Now, if during a certain period of time, the couple has held themselves out to be a legally married couple, it can change things...

...but not in all cases.


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## Wolf1974

WorkingWife said:


> I think it depends on where you both want the relationship to go. At my age (over 50) if I was out there again I would not be in a hurry to marry and would not be worried about that as long as we were both happy in the relationship. But if I decided getting married again was my goal, I definitely would not give some guy 5 years to test me out. And I don't think I will EVER live with someone outside of marriage again. Too many down sides for the woman.
> 
> I think a good year of dating followed by a year long engagement would be about right for me if we're both adults and both want to end up married again.
> 
> For your friends, it sounds like the girls know they want marriage and the guys are ambivalent. Those girls would probably wise to look for someone who shares their goal of wanting marriage and use what they learned about themselves and relationships from their divorce to find a better match this time. Pushing a reluctant person to marry you does not end well. Just ask @arbitrator!
> 
> If a guy is still hesitant to marry 3,4,5 years in --* he's just not that into you*.


Couldn't disagree more. Being into someone doesn't mean anything when you want a focus on a relationship and not a wedding. Anyone who values a relationship it shouldn't matter timelines. I had a relationship where she was pushing for marriage and honestly if she would have calmed down about that and focused more on us I would have been married to her by now. I was not ambivalent at all but her focusing on getting married vs a stable healthy relationship told me she was more interested in a status than me. Finally it caused us to breakup because I wasn't moving fast enough for her. Three months later, no it's not a typo, she married the next guy who came along, got what she wanted and got married for a second time before turning 30.


She is divorced now again for the second time And Regrets of breaking it of with me and not giving it more time I'm told. As she should because I was very serious about her just not her one sided timeline . 

For many after divorce it's not ambivalence it's just a desire to focus on relationships and not status.


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## Wolf1974

Vega said:


> No, it doesn't. It depends on the laws of your state. In most states, just "living together" does NOT constitute a common law marriage, no matter how long you've lived together.
> 
> Now, if during a certain period of time, the couple has held themselves out to be a legally married couple, it can change things...
> 
> ...but not in all cases.


True. In my state my GF and I would not be considered common law married and I have always been careful not to hold us out to the community as such for this very reason.


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## Chuck71

Wolf1974 said:


> True. In my state my GF and I would not be considered common law married and I have always been careful not to hold us out to the community as such for this very reason.


'N muh stayt (10-A-C) ifins ya sits down at 'er supper tabel moren' three days 'aweek, youns marryd


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## Wolf1974

Chuck71 said:


> 'N muh stayt (10-A-C) ifins ya sits down at 'er supper tabel moren' three days 'aweek, youns marryd


Good thing I don't then :grin2:


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## soccermom2three

I think a good length of time is at least 2 years. Isn't that about the time that all the lovey dovey chemicals wear off? My husband and I dated for 6 years before he proposed and were married a year later but we started dating at 18.


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## Vega

Chuck71 said:


> 'N muh stayt (10-A-C) ifins ya sits down at 'er supper tabel moren' three days 'aweek, youns marryd


LOL! Used to be, in certain jurisdictions, that if you had sex with someone, you were "marryd" to 'em...


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## Vega

Wolf1974 said:


> True. In my state my GF and I would not be considered common law married and I have always been careful not to hold us out to the community as such for this very reason.


Unfortunately, a lot of people believe that if you've lived together for a certain period of time, you're "automatically" considered to be married. 

Heck, I used to believe the same thing, until I went to paralegal school. 

But, you're SMART to do what you're doing so there would be no mistake.


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## Lila

The 2 year mark sounds about right for those interested in remarriage. That's enough time to decide whether or not you like the other person enough to marry.

IMO, if someone says they are open to marriage but are hesitant to commit to a person they truly love, then that's a red flag. To me it says they fear a repeat of their previous relationship which tells me that they haven't worked through their issues coming out of divorce.

Personally, I won't say I will never remarry but I will say that I will never co-habitat without marriage. I'll only play house with someone who is legally my husband.


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## Wolf1974

Vega said:


> Unfortunately, a lot of people believe that if you've lived together for a certain period of time, you're "automatically" considered to be married.
> 
> Heck, I used to believe the same thing, until I went to paralegal school.
> 
> But, you're SMART to do what you're doing so there would be no mistake.


Your Right a lot of people do think this. I also knew better because if my job. A big part of investigations into domestic violence is establishing relationships according to the law. Can't blame people not knowing. It's a pretty popular mistake


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## Chuck71

Most people are very against M.... after they D. Completely normal. I always had the two year mark

myself. Within the first two, all the skeletons come out, as do the bandages fall, if there are any.

I've only lived with two females, the XW and the post-D girl. Living with post-D girl did allow

me to see her true flaws. After a year in, I was talking to an old TAM vet and he predicted she will

have a meltdown in roughly another year. He missed it by one month. 

One positive thing you can see from second M is neither will stay in the M even if they are miserable.

They've been down that road. The main reason for living together is for people to make sure they

are not given the "bait n switch." -My Tommy is a good man, he may have a drink once in awhile.-

Then after M, she finds out he drinks every day... and not just a glass of wine at meals.

-We have sex all the time, she takes care of herself, works out 5x a week, cooks 4-5x a week-

Then after M, she quits the gym, gets a Marcy Darcy chili bowl, sees sex as a chore, and you know

the Chinese deliver guy on a first name basis and what classes he is taking that semester.


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## Wolf1974

Chuck71 said:


> Most people are very against M.... after they D. Completely normal. I always had the two year mark
> 
> myself. Within the first two, all the skeletons come out, as do the bandages fall, if there are any.
> 
> I've only lived with two females, the XW and the post-D girl. Living with post-D girl did allow
> 
> me to see her true flaws. After a year in, I was talking to an old TAM vet and he predicted she will
> 
> have a meltdown in roughly another year. He missed it by one month.
> 
> One positive thing you can see from second M is neither will stay in the M even if they are miserable.
> 
> They've been down that road. The main reason for living together is for people to make sure they
> 
> are not given the "bait n switch." -My Tommy is a good man, he may have a drink once in awhile.-
> 
> Then after M, she finds out he drinks every day... and not just a glass of wine at meals.
> 
> -We have sex all the time, she takes care of herself, works out 5x a week, cooks 4-5x a week-
> 
> Then after M, she quits the gym, gets a Marcy Darcy chili bowl, sees sex as a chore, and you know
> 
> the Chinese deliver guy on a first name basis and what classes he is taking that semester.


I love this. One of my favorite things I tell my colleagues when they give me the old "you are basically married" now is I say no the difference is when she leaves she just goes and doesn't take 1/2 my stuff with her :grin2:


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## Bibi1031

At middle age, I would say about a year or two, but not more than that. 

I probably will never marry again, but I would like to jinx that and I should of never said never.>

Move in with someone without being married is not for me. Heck, maybe not even if I get married again would I move in with someone. I like my space, I don't want to share either side of my bed for too long either.

The older I get the more territorial I become!:surprise:


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## WorkingWife

How long did you date her and what ages were you? And why do you think it was "status" that drove her desire to marry? (As opposed to desiring stability, security, commitment, wanting a family, etc.)

Marrying someone 3 months into a relationship shows she was definitely a bit on the needy side... But there are multiple perspectives here. Women only have so many years to find Mr. Right if they want a family. Men have many more years and often not as strong a drive to really want a family. If a young woman is willing to spend years and years with a man who is not willing to commit to her, she runs the VERY REAL risk of running out of time.

If the woman knows that marriage is what she really wants, and the guy is saying "Why can't you just focus on our relationship now?" she's making a big gamble to spend her youth tied to a guy who gives all indication that marriage is not important to him. You SAY that you would have married her if she had stuck around, but how was she to know that? For every girl with a guy who just needs a little more time, there are probably 1,000 girls with guys who simply are not serious about having a future with them and are just really enjoying steady sex and companionship.




Wolf1974 said:


> Couldn't disagree more. Being into someone doesn't mean anything when you want a focus on a relationship and not a wedding. Anyone who values a relationship it shouldn't matter timelines. I had a relationship where she was pushing for marriage and honestly if she would have calmed down about that and focused more on us I would have been married to her by now. I was not ambivalent at all but her focusing on getting married vs a stable healthy relationship told me she was more interested in a status than me. Finally it caused us to breakup because I wasn't moving fast enough for her. Three months later, no it's not a typo, she married the next guy who came along, got what she wanted and got married for a second time before turning 30.
> 
> 
> She is divorced now again for the second time And Regrets of breaking it of with me and not giving it more time I'm told. As she should because I was very serious about her just not her one sided timeline .
> 
> For many after divorce it's not ambivalence it's just a desire to focus on relationships and not status.


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## Satya

@WorkingWife summed how I also feel rather nicely. Many women I know (including myself) have clung to a man that is not going to budge in one respect or another. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing on his part, it's just his choice to live life that way. It's an incompatibility. 

As a woman who lost many good years because of a wrong choice she made (choosing a man way over her own happiness) it is my mission to not watch another woman do what I did without at least trying to tell her to move on and find a man with similar desires. It's just such a gamble when your time is the most precious thing you have.

Life's not fair and you should aim to live by your choices, without bitterness. The best way you can do this is to choose *wisely*


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## Wolf1974

WorkingWife said:


> How long did you date her and what ages were you? And why do you think it was "status" that drove her desire to marry? (As opposed to desiring stability, security, commitment, wanting a family, etc.)
> 
> Marrying someone 3 months into a relationship shows she was definitely a bit on the needy side... But there are multiple perspectives here. Women only have so many years to find Mr. Right if they want a family. Men have many more years and often not as strong a drive to really want a family. If a young woman is willing to spend years and years with a man who is not willing to commit to her, she runs the VERY REAL risk of running out of time.
> 
> If the woman knows that marriage is what she really wants, and the guy is saying "Why can't you just focus on our relationship now?" she's making a big gamble to spend her youth tied to a guy who gives all indication that marriage is not important to him. You SAY that you would have married her if she had stuck around, but how was she to know that? For every girl with a guy who just needs a little more time, there are probably 1,000 girls with guys who simply are not serious about having a future with them and are just really enjoying steady sex and companionship.


Well she was 28 and I 36 and both of us were done having kids. Marrying to find stability is a fools errand if the relationship isn't stable. Partially why you find 2nd and 3rd marriages at higher divorce rates but other reasons do compound that.

We went out for 12 months total before she broke it off.

Well she certainly didn't find that second marriage right since they are divorced now I would say. Now she is older and twice divorced. And I was willing to commit but wanted to know she wanted me and not just a ring and status. Ultimately I was proven very right. And she knew because I told her but maybe like you said didn't trust that. She was wrong and I'm ok with how things turned out ultimately because I'm sure she will be married again soon cause that's her priority it's just not mine. I want the good relationship first .


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## Wolf1974

Satya said:


> @WorkingWife summed how I also feel rather nicely. Many women I know (including myself) have clung to a man that is not going to budge in one respect or another. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing on his part, it's just his choice to live life that way. It's an incompatibility.
> 
> As a woman who lost many good years because of a wrong choice she made (choosing a man way over her own happiness) it is my mission to not watch another woman do what I did without at least trying to tell her to move on and find a man with similar desires. It's just such a gamble when your time is the most precious thing you have.
> 
> Life's not fair and you should aim to live by your choices, without bitterness. The best way you can do this is to choose *wisely*


Certainly a perspective I'm just pointing out sometimes that advice is short sighted. Women can have their timelines but men get theirs as well and also valid. Besides you talk about wasted years but they made you who you are and met odo. All things have a way of working out in the end wouldn't you say?


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## Spicy

My first marriage we were kids (19) and dated for 7 months, engaged for 5 months. We did not live together before marriage. We were married 20 years.

When I started dating my current hubby he had never been married and was in his early 40's. On our first date I asked him if he would ever consider getting married. He said "yes". Later the next week I remember him saying he doesn't think marriage is necessary, it is "just a piece of paper". During both of these conversations which were very, very early in our relationship I spoke up and said how I felt on the matter - I feel like I was created to be a wife and a mom. I love marriage and what it stands for and believe strongly it was the right thing for me to do. I also let him know it was absolutely what I was looking for in a relationship just so he know what I was expecting out of our time together. 

So my current hubby, proposed after we had been dating and living together for 7 months and we married at 9 months. And we are both super happy with our choices and time frame. It was what worked for us. Everyone else has to find what works for them


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## WorkingWife

Wolf1974 said:


> Well she was 28 and I 36 and both of us were done having kids. Marrying to find stability is a fools errand if the relationship isn't stable. Partially why you find 2nd and 3rd marriages at higher divorce rates but other reasons do compound that.
> 
> We went out for 12 months total before she broke it off.
> 
> Well she certainly didn't find that second marriage right since they are divorced now I would say. Now she is older and twice divorced. And I was willing to commit but wanted to know she wanted me and not just a ring and status. Ultimately I was proven very right. And she knew because I told her but maybe like you said didn't trust that. She was wrong and I'm ok with how things turned out ultimately because I'm sure she will be married again soon cause that's her priority it's just not mine. I want the good relationship first .


Well if you told her that you wanted a commitment ultimately and she broke it off after being together just one year, I assume her hounding for marriage started well before that. It sounds like she had/has some serious issues and you dodged a bullet.

All I'm saying is what @Satay said - if one partner (more often the woman) does want marriage, and the guy is happy to date forever, they are not well matched and it shouldn't take 5 years to figure that out.


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## WorkingWife

Satya said:


> @WorkingWife summed how I also feel rather nicely. Many women I know (including myself) have clung to a man that is not going to budge in one respect or another. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing on his part, it's just his choice to live life that way. It's an incompatibility.
> 
> As a woman who lost many good years because of a wrong choice she made (choosing a man way over her own happiness) it is my mission to not watch another woman do what I did without at least trying to tell her to move on and find a man with similar desires. It's just such a gamble when your time is the most precious thing you have.
> 
> Life's not fair and you should aim to live by your choices, without bitterness. The best way you can do this is to choose *wisely*


*Exactly*.

I am also a woman who wasted years on the wrong guy (more than once...) and it has cost me dearly. I would love to help other women keep from making the same mistake.


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## Wolf1974

WorkingWife said:


> Well if you told her that you wanted a commitment ultimately and she broke it off after being together just one year, I assume her hounding for marriage started well before that. It sounds like she had/has some serious issues and you dodged a bullet.
> 
> All I'm saying is what @Satay said - if one partner (more often the woman) does want marriage, and the guy is happy to date forever, they are not well matched and it shouldn't take 5 years to figure that out.


Well will just have to agree to disagree. I certainly am not against marriage if the right realtionship is present. I just won't rush it till I know the foundation is solid. That takes whatever time it takes. Been with my current GF almost 4 and still don't have that answer.

And your right I certainly dodged a bullet with the prevoius GF. She did a number on me.


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## Ynot

Interesting discussion. Once again there are distinct schools of thought. Seems most men (especially divorced ones) decide marriage is not a desired outcome and are more than willing to wait. Most women want marriage and are unwilling to wait. I would be curious to know how those outcomes would change if divorce and custody laws were different.


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## Satya

Wolf1974 said:


> Certainly a perspective I'm just pointing out sometimes that advice is short sighted. Women can have their timelines but men get theirs as well and also valid. Besides you talk about wasted years but they made you who you are and met odo. All things have a way of working out in the end wouldn't you say?


Yes, most definitely, @Wolf1974! I have no complaints or regrets with who I am now. 

My reality, however, is that I'm also an older woman who can't go back in time.


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## Chuck71

It's one thing to say up front you are not wild about M again. It's another to tell the other you

do want to M again but string the other along.


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## Married but Happy

IMO, it takes at least a year to know someone well enough - from seeing them in a variety of situations and dealing with problems - before I'd even consider a permanent arrangement. At that point I'd suggest living together for a year, and see if we are compatible through that. Then, if all is going well, a proposal would be okay - but if there are issues to work out, a proposal would have to wait until they were resolved to my satisfaction. If not resolved by the three year mark, it's time to break up and move on. Anyway, once a proposal is made, I think another full year should go by before marrying, as some people let themselves lapse once they think things are assured. So, proposal in 2 to 3 years, marriage - if desired - about a year or more later. And that's the fast track timeline.

Since I'm not a fan or proponent of marriage (instead favoring long-term commitment and cohabitation), instead of a proposal, the question could instead be: _Would you _marry me if there were a good reason to do so, instead of a long-term non-marital commitment?

After a year and a half (dating, then living together), my wife asked if I thought she was marriage material, even if we never married. I said yes. We did marry 5.5 years later, but purely for pragmatic reasons - we already had the love and commitment.


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## Hope1964

Vega said:


> No, it doesn't. It depends on the laws of your state. In most states, just "living together" does NOT constitute a common law marriage, no matter how long you've lived together.
> 
> Now, if during a certain period of time, the couple has held themselves out to be a legally married couple, it can change things...
> 
> ...but not in all cases.


It sure does here. The SECOND I moved in with hubby before we were married, I had to add his income in for subsidy purposes. After 12 months consecutively living together you're required to claim 'common law' on your taxes and it's done the same as if you're married. If a couple who isn't married splits up, they can take each other to court and be awarded settlements the same as if you're married. And for child support purposes, if you live with a woman with kids that were there before you, and you split with her, she can get child support from you.


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## Chuck71

Hope1964 said:


> It sure does here. The SECOND I moved in with hubby before we were married, I had to add his income in for subsidy purposes. After 12 months consecutively living together you're required to claim 'common law' on your taxes and it's done the same as if you're married. If a couple who isn't married splits up, they can take each other to court and be awarded settlements the same as if you're married. And for child support purposes, if you live with a woman with kids that were there before you, and you split with her, she can get child support from you.


Canadian courts must have free time and in need of a revenue stream. That is asinine


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## Chuck71

Wolf1974 said:


> I love this. One of my favorite things I tell my colleagues when they give me the old "you are basically married" now is I say no the difference is when she leaves she just goes and doesn't take 1/2 my stuff with her :grin2:


Ya mean this?


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## Wolf1974

Hope1964 said:


> It sure does here. The SECOND I moved in with hubby before we were married, I had to add his income in for subsidy purposes. After 12 months consecutively living together you're required to claim 'common law' on your taxes and it's done the same as if you're married. If a couple who isn't married splits up, they can take each other to court and be awarded settlements the same as if you're married. And for child support purposes, if you live with a woman with kids that were there before you, and you split with her, she can get child support from you.


Wow thanks for clarifying. It is different than in the states for sure. And honestly even different states vary on the identification if common law.

Hope do you find less willing to cohabitate up there because of this? Living together unmarried has become a somewhat norm here. Think many see it as a trial run to marriage.


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## Wolf1974

Ynot said:


> Interesting discussion. Once again there are distinct schools of thought. Seems most men (especially divorced ones) decide marriage is not a desired outcome and are more than willing to wait. Most women want marriage and are unwilling to wait. I would be curious to know how those outcomes would change if divorce and custody laws were different.


Can only speak for myself but if it wasn't such a huge gamble I wouldn't be nearly as cautious about remarriage. I would only have to focus on the fear of letting my guard down again emotionally which is a chance but in life worth taking in my opinion. But as it stands now I gamble my future and my kids future financial stability by choosing a wrong partner again. Only difference this time would be that it's an increased gamble because whoever I divorced from the next time would have no problems seeing my kids visit me in a cardboard box, least my x didn't want her kids doing that.


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## Hope1964

Wolf1974 said:


> Hope do you find less willing to cohabitate up there because of this? Living together unmarried has become a somewhat norm here. Think many see it as a trial run to marriage.


It's pretty much the norm here too, for the most part. I think people just accept the rules because that's what they know. But I also think a lot of guys don't know about the child support rules.


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## Chuck71

Hope1964 said:


> It's pretty much the norm here too, for the most part. I think people just accept the rules because that's what they know. But I also think a lot of guys don't know about the child support rules.


I guess I'd be one of the SOBs to contest it to the Queen.

If you stand for nothing, you lose everything. 

May I go to jail, LOL seriously, this isn't 1817. But if I did, I will standing for a cause.


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## Hope1964

Chuck71 said:


> I guess I'd be one of the SOBs to contest it to the Queen.
> 
> If you stand for nothing, you lose everything.
> 
> May I go to jail, LOL seriously, this isn't 1817. But if I did, I will standing for a cause.


Child support duckers (ie deadbeat dads) don't go to jail here. The provincial governments each oversee some type of 'maintenance enforcement' program, all of which are just a joke - they don't do SQUAT. My ex died owing me over $70,000.00 in child support and I will never see a cent. All he had to do was stay under the radar for 20 years and he totally got out of paying. Their 'enforcement' consists of a federal garnishee. That's it. They do nothing to track these guys down or get wages if they work under the table or switch employers frequently. The federal garnishee is useless too, because they just don't file a tax return. There's no real penalty here for not filing.


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## Chuck71

Hope1964 said:


> Child support duckers (ie deadbeat dads) don't go to jail here. The provincial governments each oversee some type of 'maintenance enforcement' program, all of which are just a joke - they don't do SQUAT. My ex died owing me over $70,000.00 in child support and I will never see a cent. All he had to do was stay under the radar for 20 years and he totally got out of paying. Their 'enforcement' consists of a federal garnishee. That's it. They do nothing to track these guys down or get wages if they work under the table or switch employers frequently. The federal garnishee is useless too, because they just don't file a tax return. There's no real penalty here for not filing.


Child support is one thing, I was referring to allowing common law after you eat supper there three times


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## Fozzy

Hope1964 said:


> It sure does here. The SECOND I moved in with hubby before we were married, I had to add his income in for subsidy purposes. After 12 months consecutively living together you're required to claim 'common law' on your taxes and it's done the same as if you're married. If a couple who isn't married splits up, they can take each other to court and be awarded settlements the same as if you're married. And for child support purposes, if you live with a woman with kids that were there before you, and you split with her, she can get child support from you.


This applies to platonic roomates as well? What about situations where 2 guys and 1 woman live together? Who has to be married to her for tax purposes?


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## Hope1964

Fozzy said:


> This applies to platonic roomates as well? What about situations where 2 guys and 1 woman live together? Who has to be married to her for tax purposes?


No clue. I guess if you're a guy and you want to be 'roommates' with a girl who has kids you might want to think twice. All I can tell you is my experience.


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## Married but Happy

Even in Canada, non-marital cohabitation agreements (NMCA) carry significant weight, and can limit the government from asserting you're common law, or dividing assets contrary to the terms of the agreement. If you later marry, the NMCA serves as a prenup. Whether it can be used to avoid assumptions about subsidies. Here in the US, a NMCA precluded my income from being factored into my then-gf's disability determination.

A NMCA is an extremely valuable tool to have in place if you plan to live together. It's complex, and you should each have a lawyer - but you don't have to. It's a good idea if your situation is complex, or you have significant assets prior to living together - those should be carefully documented, at the very least.


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## Fozzy

Married but Happy said:


> Even in Canada, non-marital cohabitation agreements (NMCA) carry significant weight, and can limit the government from asserting you're common law, or dividing assets contrary to the terms of the agreement. If you later marry, the NMCA serves as a prenup. Whether it can be used to avoid assumptions about subsidies. Here in the US, a NMCA precluded my income from being factored into my then-gf's disability determination.
> 
> A NMCA is an extremely valuable tool to have in place if you plan to live together. It's complex, and you should each have a lawyer - but you don't have to. It's a good idea if your situation is complex, or you have significant assets prior to living together - those should be carefully documented, at the very least.


If I'm roomates with a guy for 5 years and then he transitions to a woman, does that mean we're now common law?

If I live in a state with gay marriage, do I need an NMCA if I move in with a guy?


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## Married but Happy

Fozzy said:


> If I'm roomates with a guy for 5 years and then he transitions to a woman, does that mean we're now common law?
> 
> If I live in a state with gay marriage, do I need an NMCA if I move in with a guy?


Interesting questions, Fozzy. IMO: case a) no, if you had a rental agreement in place, o/w it depends where you live; case b) yes, if you live in one of the 9 (?) states that recognize common law marriage, and don't have a rental agreement.


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## 3Xnocharm

I think two years is a good time frame to allow before proposing. Its at that two year mark that it seems the point where you are seeing the real person in each other. The one year mark is still too much into the infatuation/honeymoon phase to know if you truly KNOW each other enough to make that kind of commitment.


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## Fozzy

Married but Happy said:


> Interesting questions, Fozzy. IMO: case a) no, if you had a rental agreement in place, o/w it depends where you live; case b) yes, if you live in one of the 9 (?) states that recognize common law marriage, and don't have a rental agreement.


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## southbound

Bibi1031 said:


> At middle age, I would say about a year or two, but not more than that.
> 
> I probably will never marry again, but I would like to jinx that and I should of never said never.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Move in with someone without being married is not for me. Heck, maybe not even if I get married again would I move in with someone. I like my space, I don't want to share either side of my bed for too long either.
> 
> The older I get the more territorial I become!


Same here. I've been divorced 6 years, I'm 49, and I don't see myself ever getting married again. The longer I'm single, the more I enjoy my space.


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## Bibi1031

southbound said:


> Same here. I've been divorced 6 years, I'm 49, and I don't see myself ever getting married again. The longer I'm single, the more I enjoy my space.


Yeah, I have been divorced for a little over 8 years now. I haven't really dated in about 5 except for the 3 month insane time I tried to get back together with the X. 

So, the longer I don't date, the less I want to think of having to share anything with someone else. And to share my time 24 hours a day and 365 days a year is just not gonna EVER happen.

At 52, I finally get it that it is just not worth the drama.


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## OnTheRocks

I'm 43 and divorced 5 years, and will likely never marry or cohabitate again. I am repulsed by the idea of compromising with another person on how many dirty dishes are allowed to be in the sink, when the yard gets mowed, etc. Marriage never really had major appeal to me, but I allowed my ex to coerce me into it. I now consider getting married to be the biggest mistake of my life. I'm lucky to have a long term gf with similar views.


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## Wolf1974

OnTheRocks said:


> I'm 43 and divorced 5 years, and will likely never marry or cohabitate again. I am repulsed by the idea of compromising with another person on how many dirty dishes are allowed to be in the sink, when the yard gets mowed, etc. Marriage never really had major appeal to me, but I allowed my ex to coerce me into it. I now consider getting married to be the biggest mistake of my life. I'm lucky to have a long term gf with similar views.


So with long term GF no desire to ever live together ?


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## Chuck71

Wolf1974 said:


> So with long term GF no desire to ever live together ?


It all comes down to government interference. All they care about is getting $ for license and

disappearing like a fart in a baking soda factory but.... are the ones who dictate alimony, CS, SM,

% with child(ren). It's like me giving a high end model a spiral perm... WTF do I know about spirals?


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## bkyln309

Fozzy said:


> This applies to platonic roomates as well? What about situations where 2 guys and 1 woman live together? Who has to be married to her for tax purposes?


Note to self: Moving to Canada is a bad idea!


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## OnTheRocks

Wolf1974 said:


> So with long term GF no desire to ever live together ?


Nope! We enjoy our time together, but we also like having our own space and time alone. It also provides a lot of 1-on-1 time with my daughter when I have her.


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## bkyln309

I have been dating a man for 2 years. I think its clear by this point that the relationship will never be marriage material. Do we get along and are great friends? Yes. Is the sex good? Yes. 

But if I want more from the relationship, the relationship will need to clearly end. Its sad but he is just happy that we are happy together in the short term. That leaves me with alot of decisions to make.


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## NextTimeAround

For me:

1. Exclusivity should be agreed upon when one or both people want to spend more time with one another and they expect to know what the other is doing when they are apart.

2. If that segment of the relationship works out, then if one or both want marriage, it needs to move on to marriage.

or if both want to just simply keep the status quo or cohabitate, then that's ok too.

3. If one wants to marry and the other doesn't, then the one who wants to marry needs to move on and start anew.


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## OnTheRocks

It's easy. You don't need a partner 24/7. Get your own life.


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## bkyln309

Im not looking for marriage or co-habitation. But I am looking forward who wants to do vacations, family events etc. In my current relationship, that piece is missing.


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## EasyPartner

Together with my darling gf for over a year now. On account of us both coparenting on a week/week basis, we agree that it would be too complicated to really move in together. In the week without kids though, we are living like a married couple - mostly at my house. Vacations with and without kids, family events etc, all as a couple.

I'm actually very happy with this arrangement. Kids love it, too.

Gf, given the opportunity, would move over permanently, that is for sure, but I kinda like the situation as it is right now. Later though, when the kids fly out, I can see us definitely moving in together.

But marriage? Never again.


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