# Troubles with a twist



## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster. I am here because I have the same issue many of you have, a serious lack of intimacy with my wife. Since I can be long winded in my prose I will use point form where I can.
- together 13 years, married 11
- 2 kids 5 &8
- first summer together some form of relations every day
- after 8 months apart for school moved in together and frequency dropped to once every 4 days for many years. Many discussions, standard excuses. 
- after first born went to once a month and has stayed at that average since then. A serious discussion every 3-4 months with promises made and broken repeatedly. 
- in the last 1.5 years I can see from her browsing history on her phone that she looks at lesbian porn 2-3 times a week when she goes to bed. I stay up because I cannot sleep and come to bed later. I honestly never "looked after" myself once my entire life until our first born came along. That is sad. 
- she frequently tells me she has a headache or is sick so I leave her be and then she rubs one out. She says I need to initiate more but I can't when I know she does not want me and lies to avoid me. When I do try she is tired or unwell. I can't win. 
- I feel like a piece of dirt. I have no friends or hobbies and my family is my life. I stay home when she goes out with her friends and I only go to work. I make all lunches and do all outside work and do 90 percent of cooking and kitchen clean up. I tell her she is beautiful everyday and I get NOTHING. 
- i am not a chick magnet but I weigh the same as when we got married. She says she has gained a few and she is depressed but I honestly don't see it. She is beautiful to me. 
- I am very grumpy in the morning and she acts oblivious to the reason and today she said she is not putting up with it anymore. She does not know I know about her nocturnal habits and I feel like going nuclear on her but that would once result in 'MAD'. Not a great idea right before Xmas. What to do?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

How about this. Tell her that your tired of the lack of sex. Tell her that you know that she's looking at lesbian porn a few times a week and then ask her if she's gay.

She's your wife and you have a right to know why your sex life sucks and why she's always looking at lesbian porn. 

Another thing, let her do her share around the house. Your nothing but her butler and playing the nice guy all the time is getting you nothing.

Before she starts pointing a finger at you and pointing out all your faults, she needs to be honest with you but as long as your willing to rug sweep it and not say anything, the it's only going to get worse. Open your mouth and say something. If it was me I would be pissed.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I can't tell you what's up with your wife. But I'll give you a few of my thoughts that popped up while reading your post.

First, read the "Married Mans Sex Life Primer" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy". See if anything turns up there that applies to you.

Second, and semi-related... The fact that you have no life outside the home and no friends falls entirely on you. 

Third... Have you talked to her about your wants and needs? Have you suggested counselling?

C


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

PBear said:


> I can't tell you what's up with your wife. But I'll give you a few of my thoughts that popped up while reading your post.
> 
> First, read the "Married Mans Sex Life Primer" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy". See if anything turns up there that applies to you.
> 
> ...


Something is up with her. Perhaps she is Bi???
But you need to dig up some answers soon or your marriage will collapse. Don't be scared to ask the hard questions-you need the answers here


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

The only point in your discussion that you have any control over is how much you do for her - and how many outside interests and friends you have. 

I think many of us reach this board with hopes that we can manipulate change in our spouses. At the end of the day the fact is that we cannot achieve long lasting change through manipulation. Our spouse has to want change and to cooperate in the marriage. Some spouses seem to wake up before it's too late and some do not. Some of us will end up staying in dead marriages for the duration. Those are the facts.

I can't guess what is up with your wife (I wonder what ideas my husband might get about me if he accessed my porn viewing - lol) however - I would first start to work on yourself. Find some hobbies, find something outside the marriage that is for you. Do an inventory of acts of kindness that you do for your wife which are not returned. Consider cutting down on these acts. Seek therapy for yourself even.


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Thank you all for replying. Let me addresses your comments:
- we have had the talk many times but it all comes down to her saying we should maybe divorce, she is a bad wife, she does not know that I want it, etc. then she says let's do it twice a week and take turns imitating but she never does.
- she does do laundry and tidying but I feel I do more than my fair share. 
- I want to confront her but I am worried that we won't come back from it. I also do not want to be a hypocrite as I also use visual aids. I use it because I have nothing else but she uses it instead of me. I have no issue with a little porn but it is the lying that hurts me. 
- counselling is not very feasible as we live in a small isolated community and know a lot of people.

- I don't want pit or duty sex. I want to me desired.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Picea....sorry to hear of your (very common) predicament. I'm afraid I can't be of much help other than to say that you should really think about YOU and YOUR future. It is your birthright to be happy.

It seems that the writing is on the wall. many people on TAM will advise you to go to MC, read this, read that etc but THE most important thing is YOUR gut feeling. 
Do YOU really want to work at making your marriage work? Is your wife? If you are both prepared to give it 101% then yes, MC and various books may help you.
However, if your gut feeling is 'this isn't ever going to work' then you have three choices;

1) Divorce now
2) Wait until your children are old enough to cope with and understand divorce etc
3) Accept the situation you are in and live with it. Where and how you get your sexual needs met is between you and your conscience.

Personally, I have opted for '2'.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

^^^this^^^

I'm in a similar boat. No kids (and no lesbian porn), and I know this isn't going to work long-term, so I've opted for 1). 

Seriously, go read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" RIGHT NOW. You are making the same mistakes that I, and other men, have made. Less beta, more alpha, no hidden "if I do the laundry she'll want to f*** my brains out" secret contracts.


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Again thank you for your replies. I have often thought of the three options and so far number 2 seems most likely. I will look into getting that book ASAP. I do love her and want to make it work but it is so hard to know that she does not see me the same way. She is somewhat affectionate and says the right words a lot but does not back them up with more than a chaste kiss. 

As far as hobbies go I am starting to do more things with the kids that we enjoy so there is that. We live in an isolated community with limited options. The same goes with friends, no one outside of work buddies that I can see hanging around with. I am kind of stuck for a good while yet I guess.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

If you believe you need counseling, do it. Small community or not, you need to get help. When I needed counseling for depression last year, I actually went to a friend who was a counselor. In my mind he had a greater stake in seeing me get better, and there were many questions he never had to ask because be knew me fairly well. Put your pride aside and get help if you need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Thank you for that advice. I am not sure if counselling is feasible as the provider in town is a close family friend and a little haywire. She has promised that we will have a sex bonanza next week but I have little faith in that. Many promises over the years and no follow through. I am convinced that if I confront her with my findings she will want a divorce. She is very proud and this will create a schism that I don't think can be repaired. But I don't think I can take much more of this. Every night she says she is going to sleep, she is soooo tired or sick and I go downstairs and I can then hear her close the door and I know what she is doing and it breaks my heart. Maybe I am too much of a coward to deal with it. I just don't know.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Walk in on her while you know she is doing it. Kinda has to discuss it then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> ^^^this^^^
> 
> I'm in a similar boat. No kids (and no lesbian porn), and I know this isn't going to work long-term, so I've opted for 1).
> 
> Seriously, go read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" RIGHT NOW. You are making the same mistakes that I, and other men, have made. Less beta, more alpha, no hidden "if I do the laundry she'll want to f*** my brains out" secret contracts.


"No More Mr. Nice Guy" is a great book, you would probably think the author wrote it about you, I know I did when I read it.

While it helps you understand yourself and habits, its not going to fix the intimacy issue you are experiencing.

Sounds like she thinks throwing the D word around when you confront her will scare you back into a corner again.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

As I have come to slowly realize, I'd rather be by myself than with someone who doesn't show any affection/respect for me, constantly rejects me, but expects me to take care of them.

If she throws the D word around, ask her what the terms would be. See if you're calling her bluff or if this is something that she really wants.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Picea Glauca said:


> Thank you for that advice. I am not sure if counselling is feasible as the provider in town is a close family friend and a little haywire. She has promised that we will have a sex bonanza next week but I have little faith in that. Many promises over the years and no follow through. I am convinced that if I confront her with my findings she will want a divorce. She is very proud and this will create a schism that I don't think can be repaired. But I don't think I can take much more of this. Every night she says she is going to sleep, she is soooo tired or sick and I go downstairs and I can then hear her close the door and I know what she is doing and it breaks my heart. Maybe I am too much of a coward to deal with it. I just don't know.


You do realize that people only treat us the way we allow them to treat us. If you are unwilling to take action, then stop complaining and realize your life will not change. If you are unwilling to divorce over you lack of sexual fulfillment then the battle is already over.

I for one believe you are entitled to seek happiness. Sex is a part of the covenant of marriage and if your wife is unwilling to meet reasonable needs than you should move on. Contrary to previous posters, I don't believe remaining in an unhappy marriage does anything good for you or for your children. let her know you know about her solo sex life and that this is unacceptable. If she is so proud, I'm not certain she will like your letting her family and friends know that you are divorcing because she spends her sexual energy on lesbian porn and masturbation.

Life is too short to choose to be unhappy. Why don't you choose to be happy starting today. That may mean being willing to say good by to your current "wife".


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Thank you all again. Some of what you say is hard to hear but I know it to be true. I am not sure what would be worse, a divorce or things the way they are now. I live on the opposite coast from any of my family and I have only work acquaintances here and no one to lean on. If we were to divorce and she chose to move I would be screwed as my career is geographically limiting and not seeing my kids would be the end of me. Before we got together I was that wild party guy who could always be counted on to go out on a random Tuesday to get liquored. Then I slowly changed to be the man I thought she wanted and now I am a shell of my former self. Where has that gotten me? 

Last week she said that we would have a sex bonanza every second night. I knew that was unlikely and I was right...nothing so far. Tonight I went out fuelled up her car, put some air in her tires and went to the grocery store. I came home and she said I was such a good guy. 5 mins later she was "sick" and I replied " Sure dear" knowing she was lying. She got pissy and said a nice husband would be more caring. Whatever. Then I went downstairs and sure enough 1 hour later she got busy. I cannot see in real time what she does, I have a one to two hour lag. I need to confront her but I don't know if I can hear what she has to say. That I am so hideous that a bloody iphone screen is better. I am so bad that she now prefers women..WTF am I to do? I need to confront but I am sure the answers and fall out will be the end of me. Good guys do finish last, or at least by themselves......


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

And what if it didn't blow up and all of a sudden she was a sex kitten again. It would be guilt or pity sex and not be a genuine expression of love and desire. I wonder if that wouldn't be worse. I need her to WANT me. Is this thing beyond repair? I think it is. That makes me very, very sad.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

there's not much sense in torturing yourself with the what ifs... you need to confront her and get things moving here, I think, because right now you are stuck in a miserable enough state and nothing is changing, right? confront her... get it on the table... see how she reacts... but you make your decisions.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Picea: I get that you're worried about the Sword of Damocles (divorce) hanging over head. Sounds like a tactic she's used to perfection.

I'm not really a person who would suggest divorce, and I don't here. But, it's like the song says: when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose.

You might as well talk, because it sounds like what's happening to you is destroying piece of piece, day by day. Good luck to you.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I would definitely not talk about the lesbian porn issue in an accusatory way. The fact that she uses it does not necessarily mean that she is not attracted to you. Maybe she likes both or just likes the fantasy. Maybe she is reacting to your lack of self confidence. Would you describe yourself as wild in bed or a gentleman?


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> I would definitely not talk about the lesbian porn issue in an accusatory way. The fact that she uses it does not necessarily mean that she is not attracted to you. Maybe she likes both or just likes the fantasy.


:iagree:

IMHO, this is correct. How embarrassed would she be if she knew what you know? She would also be crushed that you were intruding on her private space...

My wife enjoys lesbian porn and it's only a fantasy. She's not a lesbian or Bi. We've discussed it at length. It's also my favorite type of porn. We rarely watch it but it's definitely in the sex tools box. 

Why not suggest a little porn to try and rev things up a bit? Use caution and go slow! Mention it and see how she reacts. You may get an "OMG!!!" and that's okay (My wife's first reaction lol) The seed has been planted for future conversations. These things don't get fixed overnight. It's a long road. 

The most important part is honest communication and letting things come to the surface very slowly. I know things about my wife now that I had no clue about 15 years ago and her about me. It has made our marriage as strong as it could be and has brought us so close together it's hard to explain. 

This could be the beginning of great things to come. Try and be positive about the future. You already know what is a turn on for her. Use that as a tool moving forward. 

In the meantime, work on things for yourself. 

Best,


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

The lesbian porn thing is interesting. My first thought was maybe she's bi or bi-curious (probably not lesbian, if you guys used to get on well). I would consider that a huge plus, because it's possible one of her fantasies is the same as yours (assuming you're like most men, that is): bringing another woman into the bedroom! What better way to improve YOUR sex life by making HER fantasy come true?

If this is the case, your challenge is how to broach the subject and make it happen for real. Before attempting that, I would recommend you read two books:

"The Threesome Handbook: A Practical Guide to SLEEPING WITH THREE" by Vicki Vantoch. 
and
"The Ethical Sl*t: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures" by Dossie Eaton.

I've read both of these books, and they changed my life. I can honestly tell you, having two women in your bed is twice as fun as one! It can also be challenging, but it's well worth it. Here's a hint: it's all about communication, communication, communication! 

What's the worst that can happen? She could say no, be shocked or horrified, cut you off, ask for a divorce...not too far from where you are now, eh? 

What's the best that could happen? Wow, where do I start...?!

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Picea Glauca said:


> And what if it didn't blow up and all of a sudden she was a sex kitten again. It would be guilt or pity sex and not be a genuine expression of love and desire. I wonder if that wouldn't be worse. I need her to WANT me. Is this thing beyond repair? I think it is. That makes me very, very sad.


It is most definitely beyond repair with the approach of a complete wimp. 
So turn it around. 
She is certainly and obviously not turned on the by the Mr. Nice Guy approach. Maybe just maybe if she thought of you as a real man it would up your sex ranking.
I am not insulting you to hurt you, make sure you realize the truth of how she sees you, or more importantly how she DOES NOT see you. 
The lesbian porn is common for woman. They enjoy seeing another woman having an orgasm, the sounds, body movement etc... is more attractive and hits home for them and gives them a quick stimulus for a fast orgasm. Think of it like this. Do you think the men in porn shooting across the room is because woman love to see it. Nope it is so men can envision themselves as the herculean sex god that is on the screen. Sounds silly, as most guys have no interest in another man, but if you ask most woman, they think it is not attractive to watch, so lesbian porn it is. Doesn't make her a lesbian. I would get in bed and have a great lesbian porn dvd on the screen when she walked in and have my co** in my hand warming up for the "bonanza" 
Don't tell her anything about what you know, unless she rejects or pretends not to like lesbian porn, at that point she is telling you I do not want sex with you. That is a deal breaker.
If my theory is correct, she will adapt to enjoying it with you and off you go..If she gets weird or angry, then tell her to leave and you will give her the room and the movie after you are done.
Man up is the key though. doing all the chores and getting no sex and allowing her to get away with it is not manly, its wimpy.
You need to address that. 
I would leave the home once in a while alone go to a buddies, get a buddy, go watch a game at the bar and show her you can have hobbies, can have friends, can have a life that is defined by you and not her. That is what men do, and woman like men.
You sound more like a 1950's housewife than a man. Stop wondering why she lost attraction, you have your answer, do something about it. Waiting for her to do something will not work.
If you think fighting for yourself will result in a divorce, then again, stop the wimpy stuff and call her bluff. Or allow it. Either way, man up now!!


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> What's the worst that can happen?


My first thought, destroy the marriage?

My wife offered me a threesome. After very careful thought I turned it down. It just wasn't worth the risk. 

Years later, I asked her why she offered. Her words, for you Hun because it's your fantasy. My response was, but it's just a fantasy and there's no need to act on it. I can't believe you would do that for me. 

She cried a little and then looked me in the eye and said "I love you deeply"

It's not something she really wanted to do in the first place, but thought it was *that *important to me. It wasn't...

What if we had followed through with it? I wonder how much damage that would have caused?!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"I wonder how much damage that would have caused?!"

I suppose it depends on the individual, some people are far more casual about sex than others. It is good that you knew your limits though.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> "I wonder how much damage that would have caused?!"
> 
> I suppose it depends on the individual, some people are far more casual about sex than others. It is good that you knew your limits though.


It is and I think it's very important that everyone does. Some can and some can't or do and later regret it. Situations like these are not to be taken "lightly" IMO.

I sure don't regret my decision. I find it difficult to think about having casual sex when married and it's just not for either of us. 

I know we dodged a bullet that could have potentially destroyed us.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

T&T said:


> It is and I think it's very important that everyone does. Some can and some can't or do and later regret it. Situations like these are not to be taken "lightly" IMO.
> 
> I sure don't regret my decision. I find it difficult to think about having casual sex when married and it's just not for either of us.
> 
> I know we dodged a bullet that could have potentially destroyed us.


There's people for whom that lifestyle works. And then there's everybody else. You clearly made the right decision.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

T&T said:


> I know we dodged a bullet that could have potentially destroyed us.


And that may be correct for you. (You'll never know for sure because you didn't do it.) But what's right for one isn't right for everyone.

OP seems pretty close to a failed marriage already. Suggesting the fulfillment of a fantasy both may share (MAY share) can, at minimum, reopen or expand the lines of communication. And that, IMO, is key, whether they follow through with it or not.

Just my 2 pennies.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> Suggesting the fulfillment of a fantasy both may share (MAY share) can, at minimum, reopen or expand the lines of communication. And that, IMO, is key, whether they follow through with it or not.
> 
> Just my 2 pennies.


I agree with you and communication is key. It's the key to every successful marriage. That said, I don't feel that a threesome should be brought up at this time. It's just way too early IMHO. 

Baby steps...


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

It's all in how you bring it up, which is why I suggested reading about it before doing it...(baby step).


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

If two people are having extreme difficulty connecting, then adding a 3 person; a proxy, does not help at all. It won't bridge the gap, it won't rectify hurt, and won't create understanding where there was none before.

My opinion. Threesomes work in a pretty small percentage of relationships, and (I would think) a negligible number of relationships which are already seriously threatened.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

HiLibido said:


> It's all in how you bring it up, which is why I suggested reading about it before doing it...(baby step).


Point taken.


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## Picea Glauca (Jun 11, 2013)

Thank you again for replying. Some of it was a bit harsh. Necessary? Maybe, but a bit rough nonetheless. 

First off wrt to 3some, Not going to fly at all, not worth the fallout. Her self-esteem wrt her body would never allow it.

Am I a wimp? Maybe a bit regarding this issue. At work I am expected to be the man making the decisions and running herd on a bunch of malcontents and at home I want to relax and have some peace and quiet with no confontation. I get enough of that at work.

I honestly don't care if I have any friends or serious hobbies. I am tired after work and just want to spend time with my wife and kids. But maybe that needs to change, to up my rank so to speak. 

I have no issue with her porn per say. I do have an issue when she lies to me about being sick/tired/stressed/too fat/ whatever and then looks at the porn. If we had some real, honest relations twice a week and she looked at porn the other five, thats cool, whatever. But the porn to sex ratio is 10 to 1 and that bothers me. 

I know I have to confront at some point but I do not want to hurt my kids. Right now they are happy, she seems happy and only I am suffering. Maybe I suck it up until they leave and part ways then. I do not want to hurt anyone like I am hurting now.


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