# Do I have a shot?



## BioFury

Hey ladies 

So I have a situation. I met a lovely woman a week and a half ago, and since that time, we've talked every day. She'll mainly call me as she's driving home from work, or after she's done for the day and settling into bed for the evening. I've been very clear with her about my romantic intentions from the start, and she says that she "really likes me" and describes me as being like one of her very best friends. She says she's attracted to me, and will stay up till 3 AM on a work night talking to me, because once she starts talking to me she "can't seem to stop" and our conversations make her "lose track of time".

But here's the thing, she says that she's not really interested romantically, because she thinks our personalities are too different for us to work. But she then added that my desire and enthusiasm for her was contagious.

So, I'm confused. What does all this mean? She can't identify any specific reason why a relationship between us would not work, and really enjoys my company. She says she just hasn't "clicked" with me romantically. She had a boyfriend six years ago that she knew she wanted to be with the moment she saw him, and is looking for that type of connection again. She's a very "go with the flow of the moment" type of person, in that she doesn't like analyzing things, or making plans. She's very spontaneous. In contrast, I'm a planner, a bit analytical, and think about and plan for the future.

So, what I'm asking is, do I have a shot here? I haven't cared about anyone for quite a while. I've talked to hundreds of women in the past couple of years, and none of them sparked my interest. She's the first one I've attached to. So the classic "there's plenty of fish in the sea" advice is not going to be very helpful. Thanks!


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## Andy1001

Is she interested in meeting you for a meal or a drink.If she goes out with you then you may have a chance at catching her interest but if she doesn’t want to meet up then forget about it.


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## Lila

How many times have you two gone out? You've only known her for a week and a half so I'm guessing a couple of times?


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## PigglyWiggly

she says that she's not really interested romantically, because she thinks our personalities are too different for us to work

I think she answered your question.


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## BioFury

Andy1001 said:


> Is she interested in meeting you for a meal or a drink.If she goes out with you then you may have a chance at catching her interest but if she doesn’t want to meet up then forget about it.


She is, she's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it. But she has avoided it thus far, because she "wants it to be worth my time" and "doesn't want me to get hurt".



Lila said:


> How many times have you two gone out? You've only known her for a week and a half so I'm guessing a couple of times?


We have not been on a formal date yet. We met through a group, exchanged numbers, and have been talking ever since. She's extremely busy, works 15 hour days half the week, and 12 hour days the rest of it. We also live a ways apart. So a date wouldn't be a casual 15 minute drive type affair.


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## Lila

BioFury said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is she interested in meeting you for a meal or a drink.If she goes out with you then you may have a chance at catching her interest but if she doesn’t want to meet up then forget about it.
> 
> 
> 
> She is, she's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it. But she has avoided it thus far, because she "wants it to be worth my time" and "doesn't want me to get hurt".
> 
> 
> 
> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many times have you two gone out? You've only known her for a week and a half so I'm guessing a couple of times?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have not been on a formal date yet. We met through a group, exchanged numbers, and have been talking ever since. She's extremely busy, works 15 hour days half the week, and 12 hour days the rest of it. We also live a ways apart. So a date wouldn't be a casual 15 minute drive type affair.
Click to expand...

But you've met her in person right? 

I'm asking because of you haven't then all her avoidance might be because she's catfishing.


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## 2&out

Have a shot at what ? She's told you she's not interested in you romantically and doesn't want to go out with you. Does it need written on a 2x4 ? One word answer to your question - no.


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## Mr. Nail

You do realize that you have had more conversation in the last week and a half than I have had in 6 months. and she is always at work. I mean Surely something should be blooming. The whole thing just baffles me, the conversation effort doesn't match the commitment available. I see red flags.


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## Openminded

It's only been a little over a week so be patient and don't push. More time is needed to see if you actually have a shot but the one thing you know, besides the fact that she likes to talk to you, is that she didn't feel the instant attraction to you that she did with her ex. What does that mean for the future? She's the only one who knows but I would say don't really count on her changing her mind. It could happen but odds are it probably won't.


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## Diana7

You need to meet in person to get to know each other, if she doesn't want to, then you are wasting you time. It doesnt sound as if she is prepared to make time for a relationship either.


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## Openminded

Lila said:


> But you've met her in person right?
> 
> I'm asking because of you haven't then all her avoidance might be because she's catfishing.


Too true. 

What does 'met through a group' actually mean? If it's not in person then all of this is way too early to wonder about.


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## BioFury

Lila said:


> But you've met her in person right?
> 
> I'm asking because of you haven't then all her avoidance might be because she's catfishing.


No, we met online. I guess she could hypothetically be catfishing, but she hasn't really hidden anything from me. I can get a PI to get the registrant on her cell if it becomes a concern.



2&out said:


> Have a shot at what ? She's told you she's not interested in you romantically and doesn't want to go out with you. Does it need written on a 2x4 ? One word answer to your question - no.


If "I'm not interested" was all that had been said, then I would say you're correct. But you seem to have missed the rest of the things she'd said.



Mr. Nail said:


> You do realize that you have had more conversation in the last week and a half than I have had in 6 months. and she is always at work. I mean Surely something should be blooming. The whole thing just baffles me, the conversation effort doesn't match the commitment available. I see red flags.


That's one of my considerations. She's very busy, tired, and in all her hectic schedule, she makes time for me. Why? I guess she could just be lonely. When she originally told me that she wasn't interested, I mentioned that I may need to stop talking to her. At which point she said a knot formed in her chest, with the thought "what if I lose him?".



Openminded said:


> It's only been a little over a week so be patient and don't push. More time is needed to see if you actually have a shot but the one thing you know, besides the fact that she likes to talk to you, is that she didn't feel the instant attraction to you that she did with her ex. What does that mean for the future? She's the only one who knows but I would say don't really count on her changing her mind. It could happen but odds are it probably won't.


Should I just ask her? "Is this hopeless, or do I have a chance?" Or will asking such a question torpedo the only chance I have?



Diana7 said:


> You need to meet in person to get to know each other, if she doesn't want to, then you are wasting you time. It doesnt sound as if she is prepared to make time for a relationship either.


She's making time for me everyday thus far. She has stated she wants to meet me and hang out, but her concern is that she doesn't want me to be disappointed, or become more attached.


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## NobodySpecial

BioFury said:


> She is, she's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it. But she has avoided it thus far, because she "wants it to be worth my time" and "doesn't want me to get hurt".


She is being very specific in setting her expectations with you. Listen to her.


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## Andy1001

Buddy let me give you a piece of heartfelt advice.
Stay the **** away from online relationships when you have never met the person in question. I’ve read some of your other threads and you seem to be a decent guy who is looking for someone to love.This could be a man in Nigeria for all you know.
You have built this woman up in your mind and now you are convinced she is a cross between Rosie Huntington and Mother Teresa.
I would give her ONE opportunity to make a date to meet up.If she refuses or else cancels at the last minute then just tell her it was nice talking to you but you’re not what I’m looking for.
Try meetup.com and see if they have a group in your area.It isn’t a dating site it’s just a way for like minded people to get to know each other while hiking,taking photographs,canoeing,whatever.


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## BioFury

NobodySpecial said:


> She is being very specific in setting her expectations with you. Listen to her.


Copy that. That's disappointing.



Andy1001 said:


> This could be a man in Nigeria for all you know.


Lol, nice.

Unfortunately, online is the only way I can tap into a modest percentage of my religious demographic. I wish there were thousands of women in my vicinity that I could just walk up to in whatever establishment I fancied that evening. But that simply isn't my reality.


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## Lila

BioFury said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you've met her in person right?
> 
> I'm asking because of you haven't then all her avoidance might be because she's catfishing.
> 
> 
> 
> No, we met online. I guess she could hypothetically be catfishing, but she hasn't really hidden anything from me. I can get a PI to get the registrant on her cell if it becomes a concern.
Click to expand...

 @BioFury, you do not need to hire a PI to figure out if she's catfishing. Just ask her to FaceTime or Skype or Hangout. Just get in front of your phone or computer camera. If she refuses to do something so simple then I would dump her. Something is off.


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## Faithful Wife

I think you are pretty solidly friend zoned. Don’t continue the friendship with her unless you actually want to be her friend and you aren’t secretly still angling to get a date.

Have you ever had a woman you like but not “like like”, who had a crush on you? How did you handle it?


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## BioFury

Lila said:


> @BioFury, you do not need to hire a PI to figure out if she's catfishing. Just ask her to FaceTime or Skype or Hangout. Just get in front of your phone or computer camera. If she refuses to do something so simple then I would dump her. Something is off.


At this point, I'm likely just going to cease contact with her. I no longer have the fortitude to deal with emotional waterboarding. Thank you for your advice 



Faithful Wife said:


> I think you are pretty solidly friend zoned. Don’t continue the friendship with her unless you actually want to be her friend and you aren’t secretly still angling to get a date.
> 
> Have you ever had a woman you like but not “like like”, who had a crush on you? How did you handle it?


Roger that.

Once. She broke it off because I wouldn't give her the 6 kids she was determined to have :smile2:


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## Openminded

How can she say there isn't an instant attraction when she hasn't even met you in person? Is she basing that on a photo? Is she out of your league and you think someone else like her won't come along?

The fact that she's comfortable just talking for hours, and is in no hurry to meet you, says this is probably not going beyond friendship. When you want to see someone you make the effort to do that. She knows you want to see her so what she does with that is up to her. Decide how long you're going to give her to meet you and then move on if she doesn't.


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## BioFury

Openminded said:


> How can she say there isn't an instant attraction when she hasn't even met you in person? Is she basing that on a photo? Is she out of your league and you think someone else like her won't come along?
> 
> The fact that she's comfortable just talking for hours, and is in no hurry to meet you, says this is probably not going beyond friendship. When you want to see someone you make the effort to do that. She knows you want to see her so what she does with that is up to her. Decide how long you're going to give her to meet you and then move on if she doesn't.


Physical attraction isn't the issue, it's an emotional magnetism that she feels is missing. She doesn't think we "click", or jive.


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## oldshirt

What do you think your grandfather, who waded ashore on Omaha Beach on DDay, would have done when he got home and started to talking to some pretty girl that told him she wanted him to be her girlfriend and listen to her problems to the wee hours of the morning and tell her how cute she was and pump up her ego - but that she did not have any romantic/sexual interest in him and they would not have an actual real relationship???


How do you think he would have handled that situation?

Do you think he would have befriended her and burned up all his time and energies by being her little puppy and her sounding board to listen to all her problems and tell her how great she is but yet get nothing in return but bask in the shadow of her greatness???


Do you think that he and his buddies who survived the war would have been afraid to have made their intents and wishes known and would have been afraid of taking a chance and facing potential rejection to the point that they would have waited on bated breath and wringing their hands on the computer into the wee hours of the morning for her to reply to their emails?

Do you think men that stormed beaches with bullets flying over their heads while watching for land mines and facing months of combat, starvation, disease and watching their brothers in arms being blown to bits would be asking for advice on what they should do so this gal doesn't feel any discomfort anxiety over what a man may want in a relationship with her?

Do you think men that came home to rebuild a world torn by war would put up with any of this snivvle???

Stop disgracing the memory of your grandfathers and great grandfathers that had actual courage and scruples and fortitude and either ask this gal out on a proper date and then ravage her senseless of she goes for it - or hit the g--damn delete button and get out and ask out another girl in real life.


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## arbitrator

BioFury said:


> She is, she's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it. But she has avoided it thus far, because she "wants it to be worth my time" and "doesn't want me to get hurt".
> 
> We have not been on a formal date yet. We met through a group, exchanged numbers, and have been talking ever since. She's extremely busy, works 15 hour days half the week, and 12 hour days the rest of it. We also live a ways apart. So a date wouldn't be a casual 15 minute drive type affair.


*Given those exacting parameters, I'd be forced to say that the chances for a romantic relationship with her are somewhere between "slim and none!" *


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## BioFury

oldshirt said:


> What do you think your grandfather, who waded ashore on Omaha Beach on DDay, would have done when he got home and started to talking to some pretty girl that told him she wanted him to be her girlfriend and listen to her problems to the wee hours of the morning and tell her how cute she was and pump up her ego - but that she did not have any romantic/sexual interest in him and they would not have an actual real relationship???
> 
> 
> How do you think he would have handled that situation?
> 
> Do you think he would have befriended her and burned up all his time and energies by being her little puppy and her sounding board to listen to all her problems and tell her how great she is but yet get nothing in return but bask in the shadow of her greatness???
> 
> 
> Do you think that he and his buddies who survived the war would have been afraid to have made their intents and wishes known and would have been afraid of taking a chance and facing potential rejection to the point that they would have waited on bated breath and wringing their hands on the computer into the wee hours of the morning for her to reply to their emails?
> 
> Do you think men that stormed beaches with bullets flying over their heads while watching for land mines and facing months of combat, starvation, disease and watching their brothers in arms being blown to bits would be asking for advice on what they should do so this gal doesn't feel any discomfort anxiety over what a man may want in a relationship with her?
> 
> Do you think men that came home to rebuild a world torn by war would put up with any of this snivvle???
> 
> Stop disgracing the memory of your grandfathers and great grandfathers that had actual courage and scruples and fortitude and either ask this gal out on a proper date and then ravage her senseless of she goes for it - or hit the g--damn delete button and get out and ask out another girl in real life.


I can appreciate what you're trying to say, but my goal isn't to put notches on my bed post. The reason I stuck around after her eventual "I'm not really interested" was only because she was the first woman in forever that I had developed feelings for. It's very rare for me. She is thus not "just another girl" to be thrown in the discard pile after the first attempt goes south.

But I acknowledge your points: have some self respect, and be bold.


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## oldshirt

BioFury said:


> I can appreciate what you're trying to say, but my goal isn't to put notches on my bed post. The reason I stuck around after her eventual "I'm not really interested" was only because she was the first woman in forever that I had developed feelings for. It's very rare for me. She is thus not "just another girl" to be thrown in the discard pile after the first attempt goes south.
> 
> But I acknowledge your points: have some self respect, and be bold.


I didn't say anything about belt notches.

So let's take that you have an actual interest in this gal - what will give you both self respect as well as a chance with her is to reject her friend zoning and ask her out on a bona fide date.

If she hims and haws and makes excuses, then take your rejection like a man and close out her account and move on to the next.

If she accepts then give it your best shot and keep on truck'n until you are either where you want to be or she calls it quits.

Otherwise this playing midnight pen pall with her friend zoning you is just going to burn up your time and energy, destroy your dignity and self respect, and guarentee that she will never respect or desire you.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I recall a couple times when I was young and girls told me there were personality or lifestyle differences between us that meant we shouldn't date. I was horribly disappointed, but in retrospect, they were quite wise to identify this and take appropriate action.

This poignant and beautiful song sums it up perfectly.


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## jlg07

"I met a lovely woman a week and a half ago, ... and describes me as being like one of her very best friends."

Ummm, best friends in ONE AND HALF WEEKS? Seriously? That right there to me is of concern. Think about it.


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## Ynot

Damn, Oldshirt has it right! Ask her out for a real face to face date and stop being such a spineless coward. If she says no, then 86 her and move on. I honestly do not see how you could have developed feelings for her having only really had a few phone conversations with her. But if you do there is nothing to say that you can't ask again (although I wouldn't). 
The only way to find out if you "have a shot" is to take one and stop being a timid scared shrew waiting for the sure thing. People (not just women) are attracted to confidence, show some or forever be doomed to playing the best friend to women you are attracted to.


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## She'sStillGotIt

BioFury said:


> ....she says that she "really likes me" and describes me as being like one of her very best friends.


Oh man. The. Kiss. Of. Death.



> But here's the thing, she says that she's not really interested romantically, because she thinks our personalities are too different for us to work. But she then added that my desire and enthusiasm for her was contagious.


She loves the *attention* from you and the ego boost she gets from knowing you're attracted to her, and she no doubt enjoys the compliments you give her, as well. She gets all this attention from you and quite honestly, she really doesn't have to do anything to get it. That's some serious nectar for the ego. 

Yikes - you may be what's known as an official 'orbiter.'


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

BioFury said:


> She is, she's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it. But she has avoided it thus far, because she "wants it to be worth my time" and "doesn't want me to get hurt".
> 
> 
> 
> We have not been on a formal date yet. We met through a group, exchanged numbers, and have been talking ever since. She's extremely busy, works 15 hour days half the week, and 12 hour days the rest of it. We also live a ways apart. So a date wouldn't be a casual 15 minute drive type affair.


Man, you've got to stop staying on the phone so long with her. You'll not give her something to look forward to by meeting in person.

If she says she isn't interested romantically? Bring a date with you when you two finally meet. Kidding here, being a bit facetious. 

90% of times when a woman wants to get closer but says "nothing romantic" she'll indeed want more. 
Either physical relationship or more. 

If, you keep some of the mystery there, before becoming an open book. That will kill it.


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## She'sStillGotIt

BioFury said:


> She's stated that hanging out with me would be really nice, and she'd really enjoy it.


Jeez. See what she did there? Made sure to call it "hanging out" and not a date.

You're her new bestie. Ugh.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> What do you think your grandfather, who waded ashore on Omaha Beach on DDay, would have done when he got home and started to talking to some pretty girl that told him she wanted him to be her girlfriend and listen to her problems to the wee hours of the morning and tell her how cute she was and pump up her ego - but that she did not have any romantic/sexual interest in him and they would not have an actual real relationship???
> 
> 
> How do you think he would have handled that situation?
> 
> Do you think he would have befriended her and burned up all his time and energies by being her little puppy and her sounding board to listen to all her problems and tell her how great she is but yet get nothing in return but bask in the shadow of her greatness???
> 
> 
> Do you think that he and his buddies who survived the war would have been afraid to have made their intents and wishes known and would have been afraid of taking a chance and facing potential rejection to the point that they would have waited on bated breath and wringing their hands on the computer into the wee hours of the morning for her to reply to their emails?
> 
> Do you think men that stormed beaches with bullets flying over their heads while watching for land mines and facing months of combat, starvation, disease and watching their brothers in arms being blown to bits would be asking for advice on what they should do so this gal doesn't feel any discomfort anxiety over what a man may want in a relationship with her?
> 
> Do you think men that came home to rebuild a world torn by war would put up with any of this snivvle???
> 
> Stop disgracing the memory of your grandfathers and great grandfathers that had actual courage and scruples and fortitude and either ask this gal out on a proper date and then ravage her senseless of she goes for it - or hit the g--damn delete button and get out and ask out another girl in real life.


Abso-dadgum-lutely.

What's keeping you from meeting another woman in the real world?

That's much better use of your time.


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## manfromlamancha

All I am reading here is that she would like to continue her online chats etc because there is a buzz, its something to do and probably makes her feel good about herself (hence the pseudo interest in you) BUT nothing else i.e. she does not want to go out with you, she does not want to entertain the possibility of having sex with you, she does not see you as anything more than her online hobby.

As Andy said, stay well away from anyone that you have not met face to face while she is saying these things.

And @Andy1001 - what's wrong with being a man from Nigeria - he could be more attractive than who she professes to be


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

BioFury said:


> I can appreciate what you're trying to say, but my goal isn't to put notches on my bed post. The reason I stuck around after her eventual "I'm not really interested" was only because she was the first woman in forever that I had developed feelings for. It's very rare for me. She is thus not "just another girl" to be thrown in the discard pile after the first attempt goes south.
> 
> But I acknowledge your points: have some self respect, and be bold.


How can you have "developed real feelings for" if you have never met her? I mean, really?

Truthfully she's not just another girl "to be thrown in the discard pile" because she's not even a woman you know yet.

You don't have her in hand, how can you say you have her to discard?

I'm not saying all this to be mean in any way, but to point out there may be a disconnect between what you think is happening versus what's really happening.


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## Ursula

BioFury said:


> Physical attraction isn't the issue, it's an emotional magnetism that she feels is missing. She doesn't think we "click", or jive.


How can this be true, yet she can spend so many hours talking to you on the phone? Usually, if a person feels zero emotional (i.e., deeper) connection to someone, they have no desire to talk to them.


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## BioFury

Ursula said:


> How can this be true, yet she can spend so many hours talking to you on the phone? Usually, if a person feels zero emotional (i.e., deeper) connection to someone, they have no desire to talk to them.


That's the paradox I was struggling with. I've never had a woman reject me, while simultaneously seeking me out as a daily companion. I was initially going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply myself to wooing her, but I simply don't have the emotional fortitude for such one-sided pursuits anymore. So I bid her farewell.


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## oldshirt

BioFury said:


> That's the paradox I was struggling with. I've never had a woman reject me, while simultaneously seeking me out as a daily companion. I was initially going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply myself to wooing her, but I simply don't have the emotional fortitude for such one-sided pursuits anymore. So I bid her farewell.


She is going to contact you shortly and try to continue the pen pal friendship and ask you why you aren't engaging her anymore. 

Simply tell her you are looking for a traditional romantic relationship in face-to-face real life and that since she isn't interested in that, that she is not your type. 

It's the truth.


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## StarFires

I didn't read any of the responses, so I don't know what others are telling you. But I suggest you not place any hope in having a relationship with this girl. Our biggest problem in relationships is not listening and deciding instead to go about our own agenda. She told you she's not interested romantically. You should believe what a person tells you when they say it. Maybe she does enjoy talking with you, but she told you what is up, so take that she said she's not interested.


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## StarFires

BioFury said:


> That's the paradox I was struggling with. I've never had a woman reject me, while simultaneously seeking me out as a daily companion. I was initially going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply myself to wooing her, but I simply don't have the emotional fortitude for such one-sided pursuits anymore. So I bid her farewell.


Good that you let her go. I had several male friends I liked spending time with. They all liked me, but I was upfront with them, so they didn't try anything. I suppose it's possible they hung out with me in hopes I would change my mind, but I was glad they didn't make any effort to try to change it. I would have found that even less attractive.

Consider now that nobody likes being let go. It's like being dumped even when the relationship is platonic and friendship basis and conjures very strong, but superficial, emotions. It might spark her interest and it might not but if she comes begging and seeking your attention, I wouldn't trust it. It will only be her emotions from being dumped doing the talking.


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## Ursula

BioFury said:


> That's the paradox I was struggling with. I've never had a woman reject me, while simultaneously seeking me out as a daily companion. I was initially going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply myself to wooing her, but I simply don't have the emotional fortitude for such one-sided pursuits anymore. So I bid her farewell.


Out of curiosity, what was her reaction to your bidding her farewell? By the way, good for you for taking that step. It's an awful feeling to feel roped in.


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## BioFury

Ursula said:


> Out of curiosity, what was her reaction to your bidding her farewell? By the way, good for you for taking that step. It's an awful feeling to feel roped in.


She said it was nice getting to know me, and that if I ever need someone to talk to you, she's there.

I made the mistake of being hopeful, I won't do that again.


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## Ursula

BioFury said:


> She said it was nice getting to know me, and that if I ever need someone to talk to you, she's there.
> 
> I made the mistake of being hopeful, I won't do that again.


It happens to the best of us! I'm certainly not immune to that, and have experienced that a bunch lately to my own detriment. The joys of dating...? :scratchhead:


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## VladDracul

BioFury said:


> So, I'm confused. What does all this mean?


It means youre not a challenge. Id be willing to bet she keeps you talking until she's ready to hang up. You're too damn available. Going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply yourself to wooing her, my azz. You need to learn something about women my man.


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## BioFury

Ursula said:


> It happens to the best of us! I'm certainly not immune to that, and have experienced that a bunch lately to my own detriment. The joys of dating...? :scratchhead:


I've never enjoyed the dating process. It's like catch and release fishing.



VladDracul said:


> It means youre not a challenge. Id be willing to bet she keeps you talking until she's ready to hang up. You're too damn available. Going to power through her "romantic disinterest", and apply yourself to wooing her, my azz. You need to learn something about women my man.


Ha, a challenge. If I'm interested in a woman, then I'm going to pursue her and make my intent clear. I have no interest in playing games. If a woman is turned off that I'm not doing mental gymnastics to try and create an artificial air of mystique, then I hope the door doesn't hit her on the way out.


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## Ursula

BioFury said:


> I've never enjoyed the dating process. It's like catch and release fishing.


I'm not a fan of it either.


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## StillSearching

BioFury said:


> She said it was nice getting to know me, and that if I ever need someone to talk to you, she's there.
> 
> I made the mistake of being hopeful, I won't do that again.


Just tell her you liked the new Gillette commercial.
She will never contact you again.


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## [email protected]

Bio, cut your losses and run. You've put too much time in on this.


----------



## BioFury

As an aside, I will likely be meeting her in person for the first time at a formal event we are both attending in a few months. 

Maybe my awesomely cool spirit animal energy will convince her she needs to have my babies >


----------



## MEM2020

Of course she is refusing to skype/live chat you in the interim. Total scam. 

The idea that she has many hours a week to talk on the phone but zero willingness to do a single validation video chat is all I need to know. The multi month in person meeting is just a huge string along. 




BioFury said:


> As an aside, I will likely be meeting her in person for the first time at a formal event we are both attending in a few months.
> 
> Maybe my awesomely cool spirit animal energy will convince her she needs to have my babies >


----------



## BioFury

MEM2020 said:


> Of course she is refusing to skype/live chat you in the interim. Total scam.
> 
> The idea that she has many hours a week to talk on the phone but zero willingness to do a single validation video chat is all I need to know. The multi month in person meeting is just a huge string along.


She never refused to video chat, and I never asked to.

We are merely attending the same event, I haven't spoken to her. It's not a "let's meet at X".


----------



## MEM2020

You do realize that - the video chat is the absolute minimum next step?

Honestly, while we don’t agree on everything you have never struck me as a foolish person. That said - I would NEVER invest any meaningful emotional energy in a person who might be a construct. And since video chat is free, there simply is no reason for the other person to dodge it. 

Your entire thread is predicated on the idea that this person is real, and despite others suggestions that you skype to confirm that, you have chosen to avoid the topic. Your avoidance of that step is kind of odd to be honest. 




BioFury said:


> She never refused to video chat, and I never asked to.
> 
> We are merely attending the same event, I haven't spoken to her. It's not a "let's meet at X".


----------



## WorkingWife

I read your whole thread and see that you bid her adieu. Smart move. 

As a woman, here's my take. She's probably a nice person and liked you just find but for whatever reason had friend-zoned you and knew in her heart she was never going to be romantically interested in you.

However, she works a lot of hours and doesn't have much of a life and really enjoyed talking to you so she kept doing it because you are interesting and fun to talk to and made her feel good. She didn't want to string you along but she also enjoyed and didn't want to lose your attention.

She knew you wanted more and felt a little guilty so she told you she didn't want to disappoint you, etc. 

Many women have no trouble "just being friends" with guys. But most men are not interested in pursuing a "friendship" with a woman. They may have good female friends but they didn't get them by going out of their way to nurture a friendship with them.

A lot of women also don't want to hurt a guys feelings by outright rejecting him, so they try to let him down easily by saying "let's just be friends." The woman is trying to be nice, not to lead him on or be mean, but the result is the guy gets confused and frustrated because he certainly would not be talking on the phone with her for hours if he was not romantically interested. 

Next time you will know cut bait more quickly.




BioFury said:


> Hey ladies
> 
> So I have a situation. I met a lovely woman a week and a half ago, and since that time, we've talked every day. She'll mainly call me as she's driving home from work, or after she's done for the day and settling into bed for the evening. I've been very clear with her about my romantic intentions from the start, and she says that she "really likes me" and describes me as being like one of her very best friends. She says she's attracted to me, and will stay up till 3 AM on a work night talking to me, because once she starts talking to me she "can't seem to stop" and our conversations make her "lose track of time".
> 
> But here's the thing, she says that she's not really interested romantically, because she thinks our personalities are too different for us to work. But she then added that my desire and enthusiasm for her was contagious.
> 
> So, I'm confused. What does all this mean? She can't identify any specific reason why a relationship between us would not work, and really enjoys my company. She says she just hasn't "clicked" with me romantically. She had a boyfriend six years ago that she knew she wanted to be with the moment she saw him, and is looking for that type of connection again. She's a very "go with the flow of the moment" type of person, in that she doesn't like analyzing things, or making plans. She's very spontaneous. In contrast, I'm a planner, a bit analytical, and think about and plan for the future.
> 
> So, what I'm asking is, do I have a shot here? I haven't cared about anyone for quite a while. I've talked to hundreds of women in the past couple of years, and none of them sparked my interest. She's the first one I've attached to. So the classic "there's plenty of fish in the sea" advice is not going to be very helpful. Thanks!


----------



## BioFury

MEM2020 said:


> You do realize that - the video chat is the absolute minimum next step?
> 
> Honestly, while we don’t agree on everything you have never struck me as a foolish person. That said - I would NEVER invest any meaningful emotional energy in a person who might be a construct. And since video chat is free, there simply is no reason for the other person to dodge it.
> 
> Your entire thread is predicated on the idea that this person is real, and despite others suggestions that you skype to confirm that, you have chosen to avoid the topic. Your avoidance of that step is kind of odd to be honest.


I'm no longer speaking to her, so asking to video chat at this point would be pretty bizarre. I didn't insist on video calling, because I'm not really concerned about her being real. If I was being harvested by a catfishery, I'd think they'd try to make things work, get me involved, then ask for rent money. Not reject my romantic advances. But if I do re-establish contact, I will follow your advice, and insist on face to face 



WorkingWife said:


> I read your whole thread and see that you bid her adieu. Smart move.
> 
> As a woman, here's my take. She's probably a nice person and liked you just find but for whatever reason had friend-zoned you and knew in her heart she was never going to be romantically interested in you.
> 
> However, she works a lot of hours and doesn't have much of a life and really enjoyed talking to you so she kept doing it because you are interesting and fun to talk to and made her feel good. She didn't want to string you along but she also enjoyed and didn't want to lose your attention.
> 
> She knew you wanted more and felt a little guilty so she told you she didn't want to disappoint you, etc.
> 
> Many women have no trouble "just being friends" with guys. But most men are not interested in pursuing a "friendship" with a woman. They may have good female friends but they didn't get them by going out of their way to nurture a friendship with them.
> 
> A lot of women also don't want to hurt a guys feelings by outright rejecting him, so they try to let him down easily by saying "let's just be friends." The woman is trying to be nice, not to lead him on or be mean, but the result is the guy gets confused and frustrated because he certainly would not be talking on the phone with her for hours if he was not romantically interested.
> 
> Next time you will know cut bait more quickly.


Thanks for the input  I think you hit the nail on the head. Though I don't really get why she wouldn't be interested, if she enjoys me that much. If I was overweight, hard on the eyes, worked at burger king, or was an average companion, then I could definitely see it. But I don't understand the math of an intelligent, cute, and successful dude, who she loves to hang out with, getting relegated to the friend zone. 

*sigh*


----------



## MEM2020

Um yeah. Her behavior does not compute but you won’t confirm her reality quotient. 

She’s now in your head and sort of blocking you for the next few months. Watch how she magically comes up with a reason not to attend the upcoming event. 




BioFury said:


> I'm no longer speaking to her, so asking to video chat at this point would be pretty bizarre. I didn't insist on video calling, because I'm not really concerned about her being real. If I was being harvested by a catfishery, I'd think they'd try to make things work, get me involved, then ask for rent money. Not reject my romantic advances. But if I do re-establish contact, I will follow your advice, and insist on face to face
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input  I think you hit the nail on the head. Though I don't really get why she wouldn't be interested, if she enjoys me that much. If I was overweight, hard on the eyes, worked at burger king, or was an average companion, then I could definitely see it. But I don't understand the math of an intelligent, cute, and successful dude, who she loves to hang out with, getting relegated to the friend zone.
> 
> *sigh*


----------



## Andy1001

BioFury said:


> I'm no longer speaking to her, so asking to video chat at this point would be pretty bizarre. I didn't insist on video calling, because I'm not really concerned about her being real. If I was being harvested by a catfishery, I'd think they'd try to make things work, get me involved, then ask for rent money. Not reject my romantic advances. But if I do re-establish contact, I will follow your advice, and insist on face to face
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input  I think you hit the nail on the head. Though I don't really get why she wouldn't be interested, if she enjoys me that much. If I was overweight, hard on the eyes, worked at burger king, or was an average companion, then I could definitely see it. But I don't understand the math of an intelligent, cute, and successful dude, who she loves to hang out with, getting relegated to the friend zone.
> 
> *sigh*


Don’t forget modest.


----------



## Robbie1234

Andy1001 said:


> Don’t forget modest.


Coming from you @Andy1001 that is priceless.


----------



## lucy999

BioFury said:


> She said it was nice getting to know me, and that if I ever need someone to talk to you, she's there.
> 
> I made the mistake of being hopeful, I won't do that again.


Aaah the joys of OLD. I quickly developed a rule. If I clicked with someone while chatting online, if we didn't meet within 2 weeks tops, N-E-X-T.

I wasn't worried about catfishing per se- I didn't want to be someone's endless supply of ego kibbles. I'm a busy woman ain't no one got time for that ****.


----------



## aine

I would suggest be a little persistent at the beginning, woo her. If she doesn't fall for you, then let it go. She sounds like an overthinker, perhaps she needs some prodding. On the other hand, why are you willing to take her on seriously when you hardly know her. Sounds a little desperate to me, why don't you just enjoy the moment and see where i goes?


----------



## Blondilocks

Here is another clue for future reference: anyone who works 15 and 12 hour days won't be up for yakkin' on the phone for 3 hours at a time. Would you even want a relationship with someone who works that many hours. Why does she have to work that many hours.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> Thanks for the input  I think you hit the nail on the head. Though I don't really get why she wouldn't be interested, if she enjoys me that much. If I was overweight, hard on the eyes, worked at burger king, or was an average companion, then I could definitely see it. But I don't understand the math of an intelligent, cute, and successful dude, who she loves to hang out with, getting relegated to the friend zone.
> 
> *sigh*


You can’t really look at it like this. We don’t get to choose who is feeling it for us. Our attractive attributes don’t entitle us to anything, really. In fact the overweight, less cute, less successful dude may find a match tomorrow while you are focused on a woman who has already friend zoned you. 

When someone friend zones you, it is always a blessing in disguise. It means that they are not going to waste your time or theirs going down a path they know isn’t going to work for them. It doesn’t matter why. It’s their life and their choice. When we say something like “but I’m cute and successful, she should be into me” then it shows that you aren’t respecting that persons choices. If you don’t respect their choices, why do you like them to begin with?

Chasing someone who is not available or not into you always says something about you, not them.

I know you aren’t chasing her anymore though, so good.


----------



## personofinterest

"You can’t really look at it like this. We don’t get to choose who is feeling it for us. Our attractive attributes don’t entitle us to anything, "

I wish I could copy and paste this to about a 100 sites and forum posts all over the Internet lol


----------



## BioFury

Andy1001 said:


> Don’t forget modest.


Lol! All by God's grace 0



aine said:


> I would suggest be a little persistent at the beginning, woo her. If she doesn't fall for you, then let it go. She sounds like an overthinker, perhaps she needs some prodding. On the other hand, why are you willing to take her on seriously when you hardly know her. Sounds a little desperate to me, why don't you just enjoy the moment and see where i goes?


She is an over-thinker. But I'm not one to just let a situation play out, when I'm invested in the result. 



Blondilocks said:


> Here is another clue for future reference: anyone who works 15 and 12 hour days won't be up for yakkin' on the phone for 3 hours at a time. Would you even want a relationship with someone who works that many hours. Why does she have to work that many hours.


She's the personal assistant for a busy entrepreneur.



Faithful Wife said:


> You can’t really look at it like this. We don’t get to choose who is feeling it for us. Our attractive attributes don’t entitle us to anything, really. In fact the overweight, less cute, less successful dude may find a match tomorrow while you are focused on a woman who has already friend zoned you.
> 
> When someone friend zones you, it is always a blessing in disguise. It means that they are not going to waste your time or theirs going down a path they know isn’t going to work for them. It doesn’t matter why. It’s their life and their choice. When we say something like “but I’m cute and successful, she should be into me” then it shows that you aren’t respecting that persons choices. If you don’t respect their choices, why do you like them to begin with?
> 
> Chasing someone who is not available or not into you always says something about you, not them.
> 
> I know you aren’t chasing her anymore though, so good.


I don't think it entitles me, I just like for things to make sense.

For instance, when my first gf wanted to break up, it was initially painful. But I soon realized that us being together didn't make long term sense. We weren't compatible. After that, it was a breeze. There was no point in being disappointed, cause we wouldn't have worked out, or been happy, anyway.

When things don't make sense, I have a harder time accepting them. It makes me think that something could, or should, be done to get a better result.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> I don't think it entitles me, I just like for things to make sense.
> 
> For instance, when my first gf wanted to break up, it was initially painful. But I soon realized that us being together didn't make long term sense. We weren't compatible. After that, it was a breeze.
> 
> When things don't make sense, I have a harder time accepting them. It makes me think that something could, or should, be done to get a better result.


Haven’t you ever seen a woman you feel is attractive, but you just don’t feel any desire to know her better? Or you might be interested in her as a person and you also acknowledge that she is attractive, but there’s not that thing inside of you that makes you want to ask her on a date?

I know you have.

So did it make sense that you weren’t into someone who was objectively attractive? You can point to some “reasons” but there is no real reason because you don’t know her yet. Maybe those reasons will change later. Should you ask her out just because she is objectively attractive and you don’t know her well enough yet to know if your initial reasons were wrong?

Should it seem logical that you would ask someone out that you are not into, just because they are objectively attractive?


----------



## Rowan

BioFury said:


> I don't think it entitles me, I just like for things to make sense.
> 
> For instance, when my first gf wanted to break up, it was initially painful. But I soon realized that us being together didn't make long term sense. We weren't compatible. After that, it was a breeze.
> 
> When things don't make sense, I have a harder time accepting them. It makes me think that something could, or should, be done to get a better result.



Ummm. Okay, so this seems to indicate that you're perhaps a bit ego-blind on this point. Your ex-girlfriend breaking up with you made sense to you, so that was okay. But another woman not wanting you doesn't make sense to you, so that's... What? Somehow not okay? Is she wrong? Does her opinion of your potential as a mate not matter, or not matter as much as your own opinion? 


Saying that you like for things to make sense is an indication that you don't believe that a woman not wanting you _for her own reasons_ makes sense. And is therefore not a valid response from her. Because, since you're all that and a bag of chips, she _should_ want you. But she doesn't. So, she's not making sense. She's being nonsensical. Perhaps even irrational? 

What if her reasons make sense to her? She's entitled to her own thoughts and emotions - even if they are different from yours. And her thoughts and emotions being different from yours do not make them wrong, invalid, nonsensical or irrational. They just mean that she is an individual person, whole and complete, entirely separate from you. Which, in reality, is not just okay, but a normal, healthy, even wonderful, thing.

Why would you want to be with a woman who doesn't want you just as much, even if you don't understand why she doesn't?


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> Haven’t you ever seen a woman you feel is attractive, but you just don’t feel any desire to know her better? Or you might be interested in her as a person and you also acknowledge that she is attractive, but there’s not that thing inside of you that makes you want to ask her on a date?
> 
> I know you have.
> 
> So did it make sense that you weren’t into someone who was objectively attractive? You can point to some “reasons” but there is no real reason because you don’t know her yet. Maybe those reasons will change later. Should you ask her out just because she is objectively attractive and you don’t know her well enough yet to know if your initial reasons were wrong?
> 
> Should it seem logical that you would ask someone out that you are not into, just because they are objectively attractive?


In my religious circles, if a woman is attractive, never mind hot, I can't afford to ignore her. They're as rare as a snowball in a steambath. I've also found that I have subconscious "blocks" in place for going backward in terms of my partner's physical attractiveness. It can make things difficult :wink2: My last gf was surpassingly beautiful, and this is the first girl that's been on the same level. 

But yes, I can typically always point to a specific reason I'm not interested in a woman just by looking at her. Her butt's not nice, she's overweight, she's not cute... Personality wise, it's the same, I can usually identify why. She's a city person, obsessed with kids, has a repressed sexuality, isn't funny... list goes on.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> In my religious circles, if a woman is attractive, never mind hot, I can't afford to ignore her. They're as rare as a snowball in a steambath. I've also found that I have subconscious "blocks" in place for going backward in terms of my partner's physical attractiveness. It can make things difficult :wink2: My last gf was surpassingly beautiful, and this is the first girl that's been on the same level.
> 
> But yes, I can typically always point to a specific reason I'm not interested in a woman just by looking at her. Her butt's not nice, she's overweight, she's not cute... Personality wise, it's the same, I can usually identify why. She's a city person, obsessed with kids, has a repressed sexuality, isn't funny... list goes on.


How would you know a woman is repressed sexually if you don't actually know her? Even if you think she might be because you heard things or whatever, you don't know.

But ok if you are going to resist understanding my point, I'll make it clear for you.

The girl in your OP has "reasons". She will never tell you what they are. She will never want you to "try" to change yourself just so that she would want to date you, that would be weird. So what is the point in her telling you specifically what those reasons are. So you are right, you are cute and "on paper" attractive, but there's something about you she doesn't dig.


----------



## personofinterest

This is something very important you need to imprint on your brain:

A woman's disinterest does not have to make sense to you to be valid.


----------



## MEM2020

Women have lists also. Weak and needy are near universal in their criteria. 

And your little pitch about attractive women in your religion, well kind of obvious you made that kind of obvious to her. 

Bad move. You simply aren’t good at this game. 




BioFury said:


> Lol! All by God's grace 0
> 
> 
> 
> She is an over-thinker. But I'm not one to just let a situation play out, when I'm invested in the result.
> 
> 
> 
> She's the personal assistant for a busy entrepreneur.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it entitles me, I just like for things to make sense.
> 
> For instance, when my first gf wanted to break up, it was initially painful. But I soon realized that us being together didn't make long term sense. We weren't compatible. After that, it was a breeze. There was no point in being disappointed, cause we wouldn't have worked out, or been happy, anyway.
> 
> When things don't make sense, I have a harder time accepting them. It makes me think that something could, or should, be done to get a better result.


----------



## BioFury

MEM2020 said:


> Women have lists also. Weak and needy are near universal in their criteria.
> 
> And your little pitch about attractive women in your religion, well kind of obvious you made that kind of obvious to her.
> 
> Bad move. You simply aren’t good at this game.


What I am is honest. If I feel something for a woman, I'll tell her. If I'm scared of being hurt, I'll say it. If that makes me weak then I'm at a loss on how to respond.

Needy... we're all needy. Many people just have the luxury of pretending that they aren't, thanks to others who meet their needs as a by-product of the relationship between them (family), or their possession of a resource (wealth, beauty, etc) that make outsiders eager to meet their needs.

So while I understand what you're saying, I don't think the solution is to pretend that I'm something I'm not (someone without needs, who needs no one, and only bequeaths my attention to the other parasitical inhabitants of the planet when I need, no, fancy, some amusement). The sad fact is that there aren't many attractive women available, which has nothing to do with my personal inadequacies or failings, but my choice of beliefs. Realizing that is only practical. Though I guess I could ram my head up my butt, and recite some "plenty of fish in the sea" rhetoric.

So what are you suggesting?


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> How would you know a woman is repressed sexually if you don't actually know her? Even if you think she might be because you heard things or whatever, you don't know.
> 
> But ok if you are going to resist understanding my point, I'll make it clear for you.
> 
> The girl in your OP has "reasons". She will never tell you what they are. She will never want you to "try" to change yourself just so that she would want to date you, that would be weird. So what is the point in her telling you specifically what those reasons are. So you are right, you are cute and "on paper" attractive, but there's something about you she doesn't dig.


With regard to sexual repression, sure, I can't know for sure until a woman is actually in bed with me. But I can sense an air about the matter after speaking to her for a week or so. But maybe my radar is completely off. I'm hardly a veteran of women's sexuality.

What's the point? It gives me closure. Rather than it being a big question mark, me wondering why it happened, and if there was something to be done about it.

For example, when you're at work, and someone presents a problem with a project, you talk it out to figure if it can be overcome. You don't just chunk the whole thing because you ran into an issue. And if you _did _do that, you'd likely wonder later whether you missed an opportunity.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> With regard to sexual repression, sure, I can't know for sure until a woman is actually in bed with me. But I can sense an air about the matter after speaking to her for a week or so. But maybe my radar is completely off. I'm hardly a veteran of women's sexuality.
> 
> What's the point? It gives me closure. Rather than it being a big question mark, me wondering why it happened, and if there was something to be done about it.
> 
> For example, when you're at work, and someone presents a problem with a project, you talk it out to figure if it can be overcome. You don't just chunk the whole thing because you ran into an issue. And if you _did _do that, you'd likely wonder later whether you missed an opportunity.


A woman who is not interested in you is not comparable to a "problem at work".

Why would you need "closure" with someone you never had a relationship with?

But sure, do it your way and call her up and ask her why, force her to give you her "reasons" so you can have closure. I'm sure that would be the best thing to do.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> A woman who is not interested in you is not comparable to a "problem at work".
> 
> Why would you need "closure" with someone you never had a relationship with?
> 
> But sure, do it your way and call her up and ask her why, force her to give you her "reasons" so you can have closure. I'm sure that would be the best thing to do.


I disagree, but no matter.

Because I cared.


----------



## personofinterest

BioFury said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> A woman who is not interested in you is not comparable to a "problem at work".
> 
> Why would you need "closure" with someone you never had a relationship with?
> 
> But sure, do it your way and call her up and ask her why, force her to give you her "reasons" so you can have closure. I'm sure that would be the best thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, but no matter.
> 
> Because I cared.
Click to expand...

You're walking a fine line that you likely cant even see.

She owes you NOTHING.

This is almost siunding....creepy and patholigical


----------



## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> You're walking a fine line that you likely cant even see.
> 
> She owes you NOTHING.
> 
> This is almost siunding....creepy and patholigical


Yeah,it’s starting to become clear that the op is marching to his own beat and as far as he’s concerned it’s the rest of the platoon who are out of step.


----------



## BioFury

personofinterest said:


> You're walking a fine line that you likely cant even see.
> 
> She owes you NOTHING.
> 
> This is almost siunding....creepy and patholigical


Where are you guys getting all this? At what point did I state she owed me anything? My wanting a logical explanation doesn't mean she owes me one. It would be courteous and help me make sense of things, but saying so doesn't imply that I expect her to heed my beck and call.

Perhaps I care more than I should. Letting go once I've attached to someone isn't an overnight process for me. Perhaps that makes me creepy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> Where are you guys getting all this? At what point did I state she owed me anything? My wanting a logical explanation doesn't mean she owes me one. It would be courteous and help me make sense of things, but saying so doesn't imply that I expect her to heed my beck and call.
> 
> Perhaps I care more than I should. Letting go once I've attached to someone isn't an overnight process for me. Perhaps that makes me creepy.


Yes, wanting a “logical explanation” does show that you think she owes you a “logical explanation”. If you didn’t think you were owed the explanation, you would have dropped this already.

And yes, being attached to someone who isn’t attached to you is creepy.

I’m not saying you even realize this, so being creepy is something that isn’t logical when you are doing it. But you tell yourself it is logical. That’s what makes it creepy.

You’ve attached onto this girl an expectation and an entitlement, whether you see it or not. The fact that you don’t see this is why it’s creepy. 

Every time someone was into me when I wasn’t into them, if I made it clear to them in words that I was not into them that way, and if they wanted some kind of explanation for this.....it made me put them into the potentially creepy category. And some of them were.

Sometimes people take rejection so hard that they literally can’t even face it, and just demand to be considered by me as if I did not already tell them I’m not into them. As if my decision is somehow up for review and a turn of decision by the guy or that he can make some kind of plea for his case and I should sit there and listen to it. And in his head, he has this fantasy scenario where I suddenly “logically” realize that he’s so right, I really see his points now, and it’s so logical that we be together.

Always, and I mean always, this comes at me from someone who is mostly all about how I look. It’s always about that. He may pretend we are connecting on some other level, but if I didn’t look the way I do I know the guy wouldn’t even talk to me.

That’s why it’s creepy. In his head, I am just a hot girl. He thinks we should be together simply because I give him a boner and he’s convinced that the boner he got from me is somehow special.

It is always about some insecurity he has. It is not ever actually about me. And if he continues trying to make it about me, it gets even creepier. 

Again, the dude has no idea I’ve just placed him in the creep list. He still thinks he’s going to convince me logically that I should give him a chance.


----------



## Faithful Wife

If I could reframe this for you in a way that is not creepy...

I am understanding that you feel frustrated because you will only date within your religion, but you feel the women in your religion are not typically attractive to you. You keep looking, but you really want a girl you are madly attracted to, and you don’t see many in your religion you are hot for.

This girl in your OP seemed to be a good shot because she is a hot girl in your religion. You got your hopes up. Finally! Maybe finally I found one!

You quickly learned that she doesn’t feel the same way.

You are disappointed and hurt, and you fear that you’re not going to find the girl you’re looking for.

Does that sound fair so far? None of that is creepy. It’s just life’s disappointments and difficulties. The disappointment is not just this girl, it’s that you can’t seem to find what you are looking for. Is that a fair assessment?

It’s when you then insist on making this about her and expect a “logical explanation” for why she isn’t into you that it starts getting creepy. You are focused on her, and making her take on the momentum of frustration you already had going before you met her.

Letting go and feeling disappointment is not creepy, it’s healthy.

Holding on and expecting a logical explanation from her for why she isn’t into you, as if your life’s frustrations have anything to do with her, is creepy. It shows you lack self awareness.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, wanting a “logical explanation” does show that you think she owes you a “logical explanation”. If you didn’t think you were owed the explanation, you would have dropped this already.
> 
> And yes, being attached to someone who isn’t attached to you is creepy.
> 
> I’m not saying you even realize this, so being creepy is something that isn’t logical when you are doing it. But you tell yourself it is logical. That’s what makes it creepy.
> 
> You’ve attached onto this girl an expectation and an entitlement, whether you see it or not. The fact that you don’t see this is why it’s creepy.
> 
> Every time someone was into me when I wasn’t into them, if I made it clear to them in words that I was not into them that way, and if they wanted some kind of explanation for this.....it made me put them into the potentially creepy category. And some of them were.
> 
> Sometimes people take rejection so hard that they literally can’t even face it, and just demand to be considered by me as if I did not already tell them I’m not into them. As if my decision is somehow up for review and a turn of decision by the guy or that he can make some kind of plea for his case and I should sit there and listen to it. And in his head, he has this fantasy scenario where I suddenly “logically” realize that he’s so right, I really see his points now, and it’s so logical that we be together.
> 
> Always, and I mean always, this comes at me from someone who is mostly all about how I look. It’s always about that. He may pretend we are connecting on some other level, but if I didn’t look the way I do I know the guy wouldn’t even talk to me.
> 
> That’s why it’s creepy. In his head, I am just a hot girl. He thinks we should be together simply because I give him a boner and he’s convinced that the boner he got from me is somehow special.
> 
> It is always about some insecurity he has. It is not ever actually about me. And if he continues trying to make it about me, it gets even creepier.
> 
> Again, the dude has no idea I’ve just placed him in the creep list. He still thinks he’s going to convince me logically that I should give him a chance.


 This whole post is projection. Lot's of I's and MEs. 
There is nothing "creepy" about trying to seek the logic or lack thereof in OP's comms with Miss thing. It's called pragmatism. Maybe it's a guy thing, you wouldn't understand, but you could start a thread.:wink2::wink2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rubix Cubed said:


> This whole post is projection. Lot's of I's and MEs.
> There is nothing "creepy" about trying to seek the logic or lack thereof in OP's comms with Miss thing. It's called pragmatism. Maybe it's a guy thing, you wouldn't understand, but you could start a thread.:wink2::wink2:


I just know it’s creepy when it happens to me, you’re right.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rubix Cubed said:


> This whole post is projection. Lot's of I's and MEs.
> There is nothing "creepy" about trying to seek the logic or lack thereof in OP's comms with Miss thing. It's called pragmatism. Maybe it's a guy thing, you wouldn't understand, but you could start a thread.:wink2::wink2:


I have heard from quite a few guys that it’s creepy to them too when a woman won’t just move on, especially after they have never met in person, and they have told her they aren’t into her, and then she won’t let it go, she needs to have an explanation for why he doesn’t think she’s good enough. His answer of “just not into you” wasn’t enough. She demands more. It never ends well.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, wanting a “logical explanation” does show that you think she owes you a “logical explanation”. If you didn’t think you were owed the explanation, you would have dropped this already.
> 
> And yes, being attached to someone who isn’t attached to you is creepy.
> 
> I’m not saying you even realize this, so being creepy is something that isn’t logical when you are doing it. But you tell yourself it is logical. That’s what makes it creepy.
> 
> You’ve attached onto this girl an expectation and an entitlement, whether you see it or not. The fact that you don’t see this is why it’s creepy.
> 
> Every time someone was into me when I wasn’t into them, if I made it clear to them in words that I was not into them that way, and if they wanted some kind of explanation for this.....it made me put them into the potentially creepy category. And some of them were.
> 
> Sometimes people take rejection so hard that they literally can’t even face it, and just demand to be considered by me as if I did not already tell them I’m not into them. As if my decision is somehow up for review and a turn of decision by the guy or that he can make some kind of plea for his case and I should sit there and listen to it. And in his head, he has this fantasy scenario where I suddenly “logically” realize that he’s so right, I really see his points now, and it’s so logical that we be together.
> 
> Always, and I mean always, this comes at me from someone who is mostly all about how I look. It’s always about that. He may pretend we are connecting on some other level, but if I didn’t look the way I do I know the guy wouldn’t even talk to me.
> 
> That’s why it’s creepy. In his head, I am just a hot girl. He thinks we should be together simply because I give him a boner and he’s convinced that the boner he got from me is somehow special.
> 
> It is always about some insecurity he has. It is not ever actually about me. And if he continues trying to make it about me, it gets even creepier.
> 
> Again, the dude has no idea I’ve just placed him in the creep list. He still thinks he’s going to convince me logically that I should give him a chance.


With respect, that doesn't pan out. Wanting something doesn't equate to believing it is owed.

I don't know if you missed my original posts, but this is the second time now that you've portrayed me as though I'm pining after a girl who gave me a random boner, and flat out rejected me when I made my intentions known. If she had done that, then I wouldn't have emotionally attached to her at all. I became attached because after talking for a day or two, and making my own interest known, she stated she really liked me as well. She called me (not the other way around) every day, even multiple times per day, whenever she was free, just to be with me and talk. Only after a few days, did she push me back to arms length, and let loose the "I'm not really interested". I feel as though she pulled me out onto a branch, and then promptly cut it off with a "I don't think we'll work". So it is mildly offensive to be painted as an obsessive stalker, hell-bent on having the hot girl who won't give him the time of day, demanding an explanation for why she won't talk to him - when that isn't even close to what happened (not entirely directed at you FW).

My continuation in this thread is not because I'm obsessed. I mentioned that I'd be meeting her in a couple months, which triggered an influx of new posts in response to the OP. Rather than ignore them all, I decided to reply, and discuss the thoughts and suggestions put forward.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> If I could reframe this for you in a way that is not creepy...
> 
> I am understanding that you feel frustrated because you will only date within your religion, but you feel the women in your religion are not typically attractive to you. You keep looking, but you really want a girl you are madly attracted to, and you don’t see many in your religion you are hot for.
> 
> This girl in your OP seemed to be a good shot because she is a hot girl in your religion. You got your hopes up. Finally! Maybe finally I found one!
> 
> You quickly learned that she doesn’t feel the same way.
> 
> You are disappointed and hurt, and you fear that you’re not going to find the girl you’re looking for.
> 
> Does that sound fair so far? None of that is creepy. It’s just life’s disappointments and difficulties. The disappointment is not just this girl, it’s that you can’t seem to find what you are looking for. Is that a fair assessment?
> 
> It’s when you then insist on making this about her and expect a “logical explanation” for why she isn’t into you that it starts getting creepy. You are focused on her, and making her take on the momentum of frustration you already had going before you met her.
> 
> Letting go and feeling disappointment is not creepy, it’s healthy.
> 
> Holding on and expecting a logical explanation from her for why she isn’t into you, as if your life’s frustrations have anything to do with her, is creepy. It shows you lack self awareness.


Sure, I can totally dig that. But she didn't just reject me, as I laid out in my previous post. She flirted, reciprocated and even escalated my advances, and then cut me off - albeit she did it kindly, and soon.


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> Sure, I can totally dig that. But she didn't just reject me, as I laid out in my previous post. She flirted, reciprocated and even escalated my advances, and then cut me off - albeit she did it kindly, and soon.


I get that it sticks in your craw. But you’ll likely never know her reasons.

It happens to women, too. You know that, right?


----------



## Faithful Wife

BioFury said:


> With respect, that doesn't pan out. Wanting something doesn't equate to believing it is owed.
> 
> I don't know if you missed my original posts, but this is the second time now that you've portrayed me as though I'm pining after a girl who gave me a random boner, and flat out rejected me when I made my intentions known. If she had done that, then I wouldn't have emotionally attached to her at all. I became attached because after talking for a day or two, and making my own interest known, she stated she really liked me as well. She called me (not the other way around) every day, even multiple times per day, whenever she was free, just to be with me and talk. Only after a few days, did she push me back to arms length, and let loose the "I'm not really interested". I feel as though she pulled me out onto a branch, and then promptly cut it off with a "I don't think we'll work". So it is mildly offensive to be painted as an obsessive stalker, hell-bent on having the hot girl who won't give him the time of day, demanding an explanation for why she won't talk to him - when that isn't even close to what happened (not entirely directed at you FW).
> 
> My continuation in this thread is not because I'm obsessed. I mentioned that I'd be meeting her in a couple months, which triggered an influx of new posts in response to the OP. Rather than ignore them all, I decided to reply, and discuss the thoughts and suggestions put forward.


I definitely do not think you are stalking her, nor that you plan to. I think you’re just disappointed. I do not think you are a creep. I think you’re just frustrated.

If you did demand answers from her, which you have not, that might be creepy (at this point), or it might not. But you don’t plan to do that so, no issue.

I think when you meet her, yes there is a chance that your in person chemistry will change her mind. But I would not count on it.

If you can meet her and have a glimmer of hope but no expectations, that is not creepy at all, is totally fair and normal. You are just hopeful in that case.

If you meet her and she does not say to you that she has changed her mind, would you then let it go?

Also, and here’s the kicker....you could meet her in person and feel for yourself that there is no chemistry. And then you would have your answers.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Faithful Wife said:


> I have heard from quite a few guys that it’s creepy to them too when a woman won’t just move on, especially after they have never met in person, and they have told her they aren’t into her, and then she won’t let it go, she needs to have an explanation for why he doesn’t think she’s good enough. His answer of “just not into you” wasn’t enough. She demands more. It never ends well.


 See @BioFury 's above post.
He IS moving on he just stated here he couldn't understand her logic. That doesn't mean he's camped in the front yard with his face pressed up against the glass. You're arguing a scenario that isn't factual to what the OP has stated. It's like you're trying to create drama where there is none, and a few always seem to follow you down that distorted path which has a tendency to snowball and create a threadjack while pissing the OP off because he has to defend a fallacy.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> I get that it sticks in your craw. But you’ll likely never know her reasons.
> 
> It happens to women, too. You know that, right?


Yeah, it just sucks. I'm not some paragon of my religion, so it's disappointing that I can't engage with normal girls. As a result of continued disappointment, I killed my hope a long time ago, and introduced myself to her, and every other girl, just going through the motions. But, when she lit up in front of me, and pursued me, I let myself emotionally invest. Then this happens, and I ask myself "why?".

I acknowledge that women are undoubtedly disappointed a lot. I guess I just don't view it the same way, since they're the ones typically rejecting men, not the other way around. So it's easy to perceive them as residing on some sexual/relational mountaintop, turning away those who seek to ascend.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Faithful Wife said:


> I think when you meet her, yes there is a chance that your in person chemistry will change her mind. But I would not count on it.
> 
> If you can meet her and have a glimmer of hope but no expectations, that is not creepy at all, is totally fair and normal. You are just hopeful in that case.
> 
> If you meet her and she does not say to you that she has changed her mind, would you then let it go?
> 
> Also, and here’s the kicker....you could meet her in person and feel for yourself that there is no chemistry. And then you would have your answers.


 I think when you meet her you should ignore her after you exchange salutations.


----------



## WorkingWife

BioFury said:


> Thanks for the input  I think you hit the nail on the head. Though I don't really get why she wouldn't be interested, if she enjoys me that much. If I was overweight, hard on the eyes, worked at burger king, or was an average companion, then I could definitely see it. But I don't understand the math of an intelligent, cute, and successful dude, who she loves to hang out with, getting relegated to the friend zone.
> 
> *sigh*


It could be that she, quite literally, does not want to make time in her life for a serious relationship right now. I am kind of feeling that way myself. 

I got divorced and met a guy who is great. I've never been so happy or compatible with a guy. But I'm finding that my business is suffering because of the time I'm spending with him. (We live far apart) And also, for the first time in my adult life, I have a chance to be totally selfish. Do exactly what I want, exactly when I want. Even if what I want is as mundane as reading a book or taking a nap. 

It is a true luxury to not be thinking about someone else's needs all the time. I am sure I want to be in a serious, long term relationship again but if I'm going to be in, I'm want to be ALL IN. That means constantly considering what another person wants and how they feel. I may be blowing it, but I just don't want to do that right now, no matter how great this guy is.

Maybe by the time you see her at this meeting in a few months her perspective will have changed. (Or course you may have someone else by then.)


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> I definitely do not think you are stalking her, nor that you plan to. I think you’re just disappointed. I do not think you are a creep. I think you’re just frustrated.
> 
> If you did demand answers from her, which you have not, that might be creepy (at this point), or it might not. But you don’t plan to do that so, no issue.
> 
> I think when you meet her, yes there is a chance that your in person chemistry will change her mind. But I would not count on it.
> 
> If you can meet her and have a glimmer of hope but no expectations, that is not creepy at all, is totally fair and normal. You are just hopeful in that case.
> 
> If you meet her and she does not say to you that she has changed her mind, would you then let it go?
> 
> Also, and here’s the kicker....you could meet her in person and feel for yourself that there is no chemistry. And then you would have your answers.


I'm not counting on in-person chemistry either. I'm a pretty stoic person, and introverted, so not naturally social around strangers. So she'll most likely think I'm awkward as hell, and carry on.

But on a related note, I'll need a suit for the event in question, and she said she's a sucker for men in suits. I've never owned a suit, or shopped for one. What dollar figure represents a nice suit? $200? $400? $1000? I have no idea what I'm looking for.



Rubix Cubed said:


> I think when you meet her you should ignore her after you exchange salutations.


I'm conflicted about what to do, just as I was conflicted about bidding her farewell. I want to talk to her, but I don't want to toy with my heart.



WorkingWife said:


> It could be that she, quite literally, does not want to make time in her life for a serious relationship right now. I am kind of feeling that way myself.
> 
> I got divorced and met a guy who is great. I've never been so happy or compatible with a guy. But I'm finding that my business is suffering because of the time I'm spending with him. (We live far apart) And also, for the first time in my adult life, I have a chance to be totally selfish. Do exactly what I want, exactly when I want. Even if what I want is as mundane as reading a book or taking a nap.
> 
> It is a true luxury to not be thinking about someone else's needs all the time. I am sure I want to be in a serious, long term relationship again but if I'm going to be in, I'm want to be ALL IN. That means constantly considering what another person wants and how they feel. I may be blowing it, but I just don't want to do that right now, no matter how great this guy is.
> 
> Maybe by the time you see her at this meeting in a few months her perspective will have changed. (Or course you may have someone else by then.)


I'm presuming that you communicated your thoughts to the man in question, and didn't just say "no thanks"?


----------



## WorkingWife

BioFury said:


> I'm presuming that you communicated your thoughts to the man in question, and didn't just say "no thanks"?


YES, I did. And I am seeing him. Just not being willing to take steps to make things more serious like move closer.

Did she not give you any reason? I don't remember all the details but that she works a lot and claims she does not have time. Yet had time to talk on the phone for hours.


----------



## BioFury

WorkingWife said:


> YES, I did. And I am seeing him. Just not being willing to take steps to make things more serious like move closer.
> 
> Did she not give you any reason? I don't remember all the details but that she works a lot and claims she does not have time. Yet had time to talk on the phone for hours.


Good stuff. I hope things work out between you two 

She used vague statements such as "I don't think our personalities mesh", and said that she didn't think it would work, so she didn't really want to try.


----------



## Betrayedone

You're wasting your time and emotional energy, dude......You need to focus on someone you can connect in person with. The longer you are distracted by this flake the more emotionally damaged you will be.


----------



## BioFury

Betrayedone said:


> You're wasting your time and emotional energy, dude......You need to focus on someone you can connect in person with. The longer you are distracted by this flake the more emotionally damaged you will be.


There is no "in person" in my religious demographic. There are probably 15 people within an hour of me that are female, single, and my age. And all of those I have met thus far are not attractive. Online is the only place I can find a halfway reasonable amount of eligible people. But, most people in my religion don't advertise themselves online for dating purposes. The end result being many small isolated pockets of potential candidates, scattered across the state, and country, with no way to get in touch with them. Besides driving from small family get-together, to the next.


----------



## MEM2020

You say: There aren’t many attractive women available.

But that’s because you exclude anyone who isn’t in your niche religion yes?  I mean that has been your explanation on this thread. 

Just to be clear, you aren’t ok with someone having similar core values. You are adamant that they be in your niche religion.

And that’s your choice. From what I’m hearing you ought practice being alone, as I expect your mindset will ensure that situation remains unchanged. 






BioFury said:


> What I am is honest. If I feel something for a woman, I'll tell her. If I'm scared of being hurt, I'll say it. If that makes me weak then I'm at a loss on how to respond.
> 
> Needy... we're all needy. Many people just have the luxury of pretending that they aren't, thanks to others who meet their needs as a by-product of the relationship between them (family), or their possession of a resource (wealth, beauty, etc) that make outsiders eager to meet their needs.
> 
> So while I understand what you're saying, I don't think the solution is to pretend that I'm something I'm not (someone without needs, who needs no one, and only bequeaths my attention to the other parasitical inhabitants of the planet when I need, no, fancy, some amusement). The sad fact is that there aren't many attractive women available, which has nothing to do with my personal inadequacies or failings, but my choice of beliefs. Realizing that is only practical. Though I guess I could ram my head up my butt, and recite some "plenty of fish in the sea" rhetoric.
> 
> So what are you suggesting?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

May I ask what religion this is?


----------



## personofinterest

BioFury said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're walking a fine line that you likely cant even see.
> 
> She owes you NOTHING.
> 
> This is almost siunding....creepy and patholigical
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you guys getting all this? At what point did I state she owed me anything? My wanting a logical explanation doesn't mean she owes me one. It would be courteous and help me make sense of things, but saying so doesn't imply that I expect her to heed my beck and call.
> 
> Perhaps I care more than I should. Letting go once I've attached to someone isn't an overnight process for me. Perhaps that makes me creepy.
Click to expand...

 But C… the fact that you are pushing for what you deem to be a logical explanation indicates that you do think you are entitled to 1. You are not. Leave this girl alone. Honestly, what I hear you saying is what I hear a lot of stockers sagging on the news. Stop it.


----------



## Blondilocks

BioFury said:


> There is no "in person" in my religious demographic. There are probably 15 people within an hour of me that are female, single, and my age. And all of those I have met thus far are not attractive. Online is the only place I can find a halfway reasonable amount of eligible people. But, most people in my religion don't advertise themselves online for dating purposes. The end result being many small isolated pockets of potential candidates, scattered across the state, and country, with no way to get in touch with them. Besides driving from small family get-together, to the next.


This situation calls for an old-fashioned matchmaker in the vein of Dolly Levi. Surely someone in your religious community plays this role. Reach out to family members and members of your faith to get the word out. Good luck.


----------



## Diana7

BioFury said:


> Copy that. That's disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, nice.
> 
> Unfortunately, online is the only way I can tap into a modest percentage of my religious demographic. I wish there were thousands of women in my vicinity that I could just walk up to in whatever establishment I fancied that evening. But that simply isn't my reality.


Not sure if you are a Christian, but there are on line dating sites specifically for Christians and the number of men to women is very favourable. If a woman isn't interested in meeting up, don't waste your time on her. 
Do you have a good lively church? Many churches have singles groups and there are many Christian events etc where you can meet singles.

If you are in a cult such as the JW's or mormon's, you have a much harder task.


----------



## Blondilocks

Diana7 said:


> Not sure if you are a Christian, but there are on line dating sites specifically for Christians and the number of men to women is very favourable. If a woman isn't interested in meeting up, don't waste your time on her.
> Do you have a good lively church? Many churches have singles groups and there are many Christian events etc where you can meet singles.
> 
> If you are in a cult such as the JW's or mormon's, you have a much harder task.


Mormons take care of their own. If he were Mormon, he would already be married.


----------



## BioFury

Rubix Cubed said:


> May I ask what religion this is?





Diana7 said:


> Not sure if you are a Christian, but there are on line dating sites specifically for Christians and the number of men to women is very favourable. If a woman isn't interested in meeting up, don't waste your time on her.
> Do you have a good lively church? Many churches have singles groups and there are many Christian events etc where you can meet singles.
> 
> If you are in a cult such as the JW's or mormon's, you have a much harder task.


I'm messianic. Christians are off the table. Aside from perhaps the UCG church, or an SDA church that doesn't keep christian holidays (rare).



Blondilocks said:


> Mormons take care of their own. If he were Mormon, he would already be married.


Lol


----------



## AVR1962

So you met in person thru this group? Yet you have not found time to make a date one-on-one? Yet she talks for hours but has told you without having a one-on-one date that she doesn't think it will work, that she didn't feel anything....I am assuming when you met at the group? Can you tell if she is drinking while she is talking to you? Could she just be lonely? I thought is to go with her statement that she felt nothing and didn't think it would work. I would not waste my time on this. Don't contact her and if she asks why she hasn't heard from you be upfront with her....that she felt it wouldn't work so you decided to move on and she what she says.


----------



## Rowan

There is some version of a Yente in every religious community, and most secular ones as well. Whether it's an official position or not, every community has someone who is at least nominally in charge of making sure the young people find one another. In my experience, having lived in the South all my life, all that's really necessary is to let the elder ladies know (or even suspect) that you're interested in finding love. You'll soon be deluged with introductions to blushing prospects.

Just out of curiosity, are converts or new believers not accepted into your faith? Would a woman who shares your basic values not be able to convert if you two intended to marry? I'm not sure I've ever heard of a faith with _no_ mechanism for accepting new followers other than having been born into the church.


----------



## Faithful Wife

This might be a dumb question, but have you tried JDate? There may be some messianics there.


----------



## Diana7

BioFury said:


> I'm messianic. Christians are off the table. Aside from perhaps the UCG church, or an SDA church that doesn't keep christian holidays (rare).
> 
> 
> 
> Lol


Are there not dating sites for messianic people? You may need to go further away.
Do you belong to a messianic community?


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> Are there not dating sites for messianic people? You may need to go further away.
> Do you belong to a messianic community?


I don't know where you live, OP, but Memphis, TN has a fairly prolific Messianic community.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> This might be a dumb question, but have you tried JDate? There may be some messianics there.


It's not a dumb question  The majority of Jdate's members are merely culturally Jewish, they aren't religious. A messianic person comes along every now and again, but I've found the mainstream sites to largely be useless.



Diana7 said:


> Are there not dating sites for messianic people? You may need to go further away.
> Do you belong to a messianic community?


Yes, there are a few, but they have an active member base of around two dozen, and most girls who show up aren't worth purusing.

No, but I do visit some on occasion.



personofinterest said:


> I don't know where you live, OP, but Memphis, TN has a fairly prolific Messianic community.


That's about 3 hours away. I don't mind traveling, but you can fathom how inefficient such a strategy is. 6 hour round trip, with unknown female membership, who aren't use to being approached by men, especially strangers... a very high cost to benefit ratio.

-----------

But at this point, my conundrum is about the girl I found who _is _worth pursuing, not all the ones who aren't. Particularly the upcoming physical meet up that is to take place in March. Can any of you give me female insight into the world of suits? What dollar amount represents a nice suit? Are there different styles typically found appealing? I've never shopped for one or owned one.


----------



## Betrayedone

Oh boy........Ladies please take over from here.........


----------



## personofinterest

I feel like I'm watching "You" on Netflix....


----------



## BioFury

personofinterest said:


> I feel like I'm watching "You" on Netflix....


Well, what do you suggest? I've already invested close to a grand in dating websites, I've fished them dry. I'm a member of all the facebook groups, and I visit the local congregations. So there is no "untrodden ground" that I could be focusing my energy on penetrating (no pun intended, lol), if only I completely forgot about this girl, and the coming event we are both attending. I might as well make a good impression.


----------



## Faithful Wife

As for the suit question, I actually think you should make a post in the men’s section about suit buying because guys will see it and make suggestions. I have no clue about men’s suits, I do know that good ones are fairly expensive. I can tell what looks good to me, but no idea which suits are actually higher quality when I see it on a guy. The more modern, the better IMO, but that doesn’t help you much.


----------



## BioFury

Faithful Wife said:


> As for the suit question, I actually think you should make a post in the men’s section about suit buying because guys will see it and make suggestions. I have no clue about men’s suits, I do know that good ones are fairly expensive. I can tell what looks good to me, but no idea which suits are actually higher quality when I see it on a guy. The more modern, the better IMO, but that doesn’t help you much.


Solid point, I'll ask the dudes.


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