# Not "coping" now, I have analyis paralysis.



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm in terrible pain. This indecision, confusion and pain is almost unbearable. Im sure like many of the other people's stories Ive read here this is not a unique story. Since I stumbled on this website, I have found some comfort in the fact that I an very far from alone in this personal hell I'm enduring.

Like many of the other people here, I just don't know what to do. My emotions and the swings in my thought processes are so dramatic that I just can't get a handle on what is real, what is imagined, and what I want to do.

It's easy to say "decide what you want to do and go for it" that resolve is virtually impossible to grab and hold onto though. I don't know what I want to do... In the meantime, my soul aches and i'm paralized by indecision. 

The thumbnail sketch...

my wife & I are in our mid 30's and have been together for 10 years, married for almost half that time. We own a home together, in Texas. We have a child, he is 3. My wife and I are very opposite. About as opposite as you can be actually. I struggled with a drinking problem most of my life and to some degree our entire relationship. It ran the course, to the point that I could not control it anymore. I quit drinking and have not had a drink for 1.5 years. During the time that I was at the rock bottom stage, I was neglectful to her. Emotionally. I didn't give her the attention that she wanted and probably deserved. Hence the understandable scenario to drive her to seek comfort elsewhere. She is very "needy" person. 

Enter the opportunity, The OM. This person is and has been her friend as long as I have known her. I never felt threatened by this person, even though I was aware he had feelings for her. But she never recipricated, they were just best friends. I have hung out with the guy a bunch of times, and we were surface friends. Because in his sales job he travels and is often out of the country or lives in another state for extended periods of time. This person is also very needy and clingy, and frankly I always viewed him as pretty sad. If my personality is that of a "alpha" he would be exactly the opposite. So anyway, the rest of this story is fairly commonplace from what Ive read about other people's stories... 

*facebook addiction*
*constant "secret" texting* (up to 10+ times per day)
*long calls in the middle of the night, and almost constant contact during the hours she is away from me*
*secret gifts*
*suspicous behavior*
*no sex or even intimate contact for 1+ years*
*dont sleep in the same room*
*wife withdrawn, doesnt want to work on our marriage (gave up, checked out)*

It all adds up very clearly, VERY. I have lots of "circumstantial" evidence, but no smoking gun. When you combine the entire story and timelines together, there really is no other answer.

Ive remained distant and tried not to exhibit any jealousy, and more or less given her space to "come around" and I had always been very confident that I was "the one" but we had some issues to work through... Hasn't happened, as a matter of fact I think exactly the opposite has been happening. 

So I have a million things to work through in my head and my soul is shattered into a million pieces... I just dont know what to do. I would expect that the first thing I need is confirmation of my suspicsions... That Im afraid, I may never get. Obviously Ive confronted her about it. As expected, she just dismisses it and lies about most everything. Some of the things she tells me, or explains away when I confront her about them are absolute lies I have evidence of or so vague that there remains a way for her to wiggle out of them with another explanation. But I walk gently and Im trying to be careful who much I reveal that I do know. Since I have made her aware that I know or suspect *something* is going on.. she has become more guarded and seems to be more "careful". She has a lot to lose. least impotant of which is our marriage. What is important to her is our home, our child, & the most important thing she is protecting is "what other people think of her"... that like nothing else seems to be the most important thing in the world to her. 

I have no one to talk to...

Im literally going crazy... I have to know for sure. After some research I found that they text, instant massage hundreds of times... some days its up to 50+ times a day!!! I have no access to her evil iphone, she keeps it tied to her 24hrs a day and is extra cautious about leaving it around... literally she guards it with her life...


----------



## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Ive remained distant and tried not to exhibit any jealousy, and more or less given her space to "come around" and I had always been very confident that I was "the one" but we had some issues to work through... Hasn't happened, as a matter of fact I think exactly the opposite has been happening.


Regardless of the issues that you've stated, this right here sticks out the most to me. Distance (emotional and / or physical) destroys marriages. Every day you give her space is another day she will feel neglected by you, and continue to move apart from you. The space you are giving her is also enabling her to pursue this assumed affair. What have you been doing during this whole ordeal? You also stated...



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I didn't give her the attention that she wanted and probably deserved.


... what do you mean by probably? This is your wife, the one who stuck with you through all those years you had a "drinking" problem. There is no "probably" to it! While your description may have been a little vague on things, I get a decent sense of complacency from you in how you view your marriage, hurting or not. First and foremost, you need to communicate to your wife how uneasy all of this communication is making you. If you do so in a calm and loving manner, and she is still defensive, then take steps to exposing the truth. Do you have access to her computer? A key-logger may help. You state she keeps her iPhone on her at all times, but does she connect it wireless to a home network? If it's a wireless connection and not the 3G connection, a packet-sniffer could assist.

You should be prepared for what comes next as well. Some women will use the moment when they are caught to leave, especially ones that have already checked out. You sitting around giving her space will never lead to anything but heartbreak for you. Enough about her though- What have you been doing to improve yourself? What steps have you taken to draw her back to you? If you aren't sure what steps to take, take a look around this section at other stories. There are lots of useful links to help you get started. 

You state you are tired of the indecision... this is a two person marriage. Take steps to improve yourself, while continuing to show her your love and dedication. The progression (together or apart) puts pressure for a decision to be made. We of course all hope for a resolution within your marriage however.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

First, I want to thank you sincerly for your reply.

I genuinely appreciate it. 

I think in many ways you are absolutely correct. I had/have taken her for granted. 

As far as giving her space, I did not know what else to do. The space is what she asked for and in my arrogance? I assumed she would come around and realize how much she loved me. As I mentioned, and as you pointed out I guess I was wrong and all I did was give her more justification for the affair and more space to fertilize the relationship with the OM.

Regarding your question about what I have done to improve myself, as a person It's night and day. The person I am today is nothing like the person I was 18 months ago. As far as working out, and other image improvement activities... I probably havent done enough. I began working out again after I quit drinking, etc,... but after a few months that fell to the wayside. Ive been so consumed with this, and trying to raise our child along with a million other things it was easy to quickly fall out of that...

Regarding the technical questions. She doesnt use the CPU for comminication. 3G cell phone communication exclusively.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Indecision in situations like this can often times be your worst enemy. I know; I've been there. That's great you admit to your shortcomings and set forth to correct them. 

Now, on to the pressing problem at hand......You wife is engaged in a full-blown emotion affair. At this point, why even worry if it has turned physical. It really doesn't matter; she is not participating in your marriage. Her EA should be treated no different than a PA. Unfortunately when you gave her more space, it simply gave her more freedom to walk all over you. Here's the link to a great web site which you might find helpful: http://www.affaircare.com/JustDiscovered.htm . These folks regularly participate on this forum too.

Hang in there!


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you very much for the link.

Im trying not to "knee jerk" or just react... there are so many emotions that swing so ferociously and essentially criple my ability to think clearly and to even function normally.. 

A question, who it be benificial for me to try to speak with the people that influence her so much? Her siblings, parents & best friends... all of which she vents to constantly... I believe now that much of her campaign to convince them of all of these bad things Ive done to her is partially to justify in her mind or even in thier eyes why she is carrying on this EA. 

I had kept my distance from them across the board. Again, thinking she would come around. I have never told them how I feel about her or our marriage and had hoped that my actions would speak for me. Also, the FB thing, I have allowed that to be "her space" her own private world where I never go. WHile I have an account, I religiously avoid that website. Partially because I "read into" some of the communication I read there between her and other people (including OM) that absolutely send me into a mental tailspin of anger, etc... Would inserting myself into her "worlds" and sharing my feelings openly in front of these people who obviously have a tremendous influence over her help or hurt me?


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

You obviously know your wife better than any of us--and how she will react. You need to first confront your wife with the problem at hand. And in doing so, set firm boundaries. When you begin telling others what she has done, it gets a little tricky. Hopefully your wife still has a conscience and cares what others think. Unfortunately, I didn't have that to work with. 

Are you involved in a church? If so, that's the easiest place to begin. Simply have a talk with the minister. In most cases the minister will also agree to speak to your spouse. Outside of that, who to "tell" gets tricky. Members of her family may tend to take her side. The same goes for your family. The people you need to tell should be those whom she respects most. Perhaps an unbiased mutual friend. I eventually told everyone, but it didn't help. At first most people thought I was crazy. It seems the estranged husband had been doing a little public relations of his own. Second, he didn't care what anyone thought of him.

Before beginning to tell people what is going on, thoroughly plan out what you are going to say. Also, be prepared to have some evidence to back up what you are saying. Some people like to see some proof.

I really hope you can get her to focus on your marriage again.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

No, Im sorry I should have been more clear. I have been very careful about who Ive shared my suspicions with. It's past suspicion actually. But, I have spoken with my closest friends. At this point, I don't intend to share anything about the EA with anyone else. 

I meant sharing the fact that I love her and there is very little I won't do to save my marriage.

Generally speaking, I am usually fiercely private about marriage issues and things I feel should be kept between a man and his wife. I also haven't felt a need to defend myself or campaign to anyone about our issues. (BTW; This is in very stark contrast to what she does.). I don't know how this sounds, but I don't really care what other people think. I don't know if I should begin caring more seriously about what they think as they obviously influence what my wife thinks and does.


----------



## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

I would ask her for a "dialog". Sit her down quietly w/out the kid around. I would tell her that you want to save your marriage. Not just save it but make it the kind of marriage that everyone would envy. Let her know that you need her cooperation. Give her what she is missing. 
Women want intimate conversation. They want us men to act like their girlfriends (which is difficult for us). The OM is doing this. Go for long walks and talk about her childhood, her feelings, what she likes in you and what she doesn't like. Really listen. Don't defend yourself. Mirror back everything she says and then empathize with her and validate what she says. Make sure you have date night at least one night a week. PLAN something romantic. Don't expect her to do it. Bubble baths by candle light work good on non-date nights. Offer to rub her back with oil in a non-sexual way for at least 1 hour. Do household chores so that she doesn't have to (make the bed, run a load of laundry...). Get rid of any and all anger towards her. Compliment her in a genuine way (ie: your nail polish color really compliments you, your hair color really looks nice, that outfit you are wearing really compliments your figure...). When (if) you make love to her, stare into her eyes and say "I love you". If she's not looking at you while you are making love, say "look at me" to make her open her eyes.
The "no jealosy" stuff doesn't work. She's interpreting that as you don't care. It's time to take charge of what's yours. Be a man. No more passive Mr. Nice guy! Good luck & keep us posted.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I have told her on multiple occasions that I want to save the marriage. She is completely unresponsive. Ive told her and showed her my frustration that I can not do it alone. If she doesn't participate, I am spinning my wheels. Spin your wheels long enough and hard enough, all the rubber comes off. That leads to anger, frustration and hurt. Any and all advances, physical or verbal are met with rejection.

I have done many of the things you mention in regard to household chores, massages, etc.. Regarding sex, That isn't happening. Hasn't for 18 months +. When I touch her, she cringes. I always get the distinct feeling she felt she was cheating on someone. Of course I have been assured that she just needs space, and doesn't know what she wants. 

Many of the things you suggest have merit, no doubt. But, most take some level of mutual participation. There is none. It's a brickwall.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

True, you have in essence hit a brick wall. She isn't going to pay any attention to you or your efforts as long as she is involved in the EA. She is getting what she needs from him. The OM will need to be out of the picture before you will make any headway. That's why I thought Affaircare's web site could be useful at this point.


----------



## athena (Oct 28, 2010)

My behavior was/is very similar to your wife's. I had a PA for over 2 years and spent most of that time myself in "analysis paralysis". I was trying to figure out which way to go - back to my husband or start a new life with OM. 

At one point (right before the OM's wife discovered the PA) we were both very close to leaving our marriages. I am still so confused, but am finding some guidance and clarity with individual counselling, books on surviving infidelity, and websites like this that focus on fixing marriages. 

If she will listen to you, encourage her to also read up on this as she may very well be confused and torn right now too. Make sure she is reading things focused on fixing things and not running away from them (2 counsellors I had told me to leave my marriage after the 2nd session - I didn't go back to them). 

Perhaps if she starts to get some clarity in her situation, she will be able to open up to you about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I am broken. Most of this is out of my hands, and I realize that. 

Everything I do works against me. This is like quicksand. I understand how unattractive being needy or insecure is, Believe me. I do everything I can not to appear that way. But, in order to do that I have to create some distance. That distance also works against me. While I am a strong person and I do understand the psychology of what is taking place, I'm only human. Most times, I can't endure the hurt well enough to remain "in character" and be the loving, understanding, devoted person some of these recipes seem to call for. Add the dynamic of her being shut off and absolutely no chance of progress or reconciliation with the OM in the picture. But, no realistic chances of removing him from the picture as things stand... I'm just dying inside, everyday. A little at a time. 

Logically, I have to move on. But, I promised. I feel responsibility to my wife, my son and above all myself not to give up. If I do, I failed all of us. That almost sounds pathetic just writing it. Something inside me screams "don't be stupid!, wake up!!". Even knowing that my thought process is highly flawed. That doesn't give me the freedom to act against it. How fuct is that? This is rediculous.


----------



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I am broken. Most of this is out of my hands, and I realize that.
> 
> Everything I do works against me. This is like quicksand. I understand how unattractive being needy or insecure is, Believe me. I do everything I can not to appear that way. But, in order to do that I have to create some distance. That distance also works against me. While I am a strong person and I do understand the psychology of what is taking place, I'm only human. Most times, I can't endure the hurt well enough to remain "in character" and be the loving, understanding, devoted person some of these recipes seem to call for. Add the dynamic of her being shut off and absolutely no chance of progress or reconciliation with the OM in the picture. But, no realistic chances of removing him from the picture as things stand... I'm just dying inside, everyday. A little at a time.
> 
> Logically, I have to move on. But, I promised. I feel responsibility to my wife, my son and above all myself not to give up. If I do, I failed all of us. That almost sounds pathetic just writing it. Something inside me screams "don't be stupid!, wake up!!". Even knowing that my thought process is highly flawed. That doesn't give me the freedom to act against it. How fuct is that? This is rediculous.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Marksaysay, you quoted my post but didnt reply. Did you mean to?


----------



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I am broken. Most of this is out of my hands, and I realize that.
> 
> Everything I do works against me. This is like quicksand. I understand how unattractive being needy or insecure is, Believe me. I do everything I can not to appear that way. But, in order to do that I have to create some distance. That distance also works against me. While I am a strong person and I do understand the psychology of what is taking place, I'm only human. Most times, I can't endure the hurt well enough to remain "in character" and be the loving, understanding, devoted person some of these recipes seem to call for. Add the dynamic of her being shut off and absolutely no chance of progress or reconciliation with the OM in the picture. But, no realistic chances of removing him from the picture as things stand... I'm just dying inside, everyday. A little at a time.
> 
> Logically, I have to move on. But, I promised. I feel responsibility to my wife, my son and above all myself not to give up. If I do, I failed all of us. That almost sounds pathetic just writing it. Something inside me screams "don't be stupid!, wake up!!". Even knowing that my thought process is highly flawed. That doesn't give me the freedom to act against it. How fuct is that? This is rediculous.


I'm in the same boat right now. My next step is revealing the situation to our pastor so that he can speak with her. I don't know if it will matter right now, but I know, for most of our relationship, she has cared a great deal about what others thought. I'm hoping that since our pastor knows and tells her that he knows, this will snap her out of it. Her family knows many of the details and most seemed so apathetic and unconcerned, but I kind of expected that. 

I also feel like I'm dying a little. But I also feel like I giving up is not the right thing to do for my wife, myself, and especially our daughter. I'm sure I'll move on at some point but that time is not right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I really need some guidance here...

Here's where...

THe biggest problem I have is that my wife will not admit this EA (PA?)... No way, no chance. I have confronted her about it, shes absolutely denies it. "just friends", etc... My confrontations are direct but I do not and will not shown all my cards. Fact is, I don't have enough cards to *absolutely* and undenably bring this thing into the light. As is standard, my confrontations have caused them to be more cautious. I have way more than enough to confirm that this is a fact, but no smoking gun. Without being able to get this big gorilla in the light, there is no next step. 

As I mentioned, I know this OM. We have mutual aquaintances and he was my *friend*. I have never confronted him with any of this. I'm hesitant to do this and fear that it will only cause more denial. But my gut is burning to set off those fireworks. 

Regarding the suggestions of technical solutions. I have explained above why these are not a realistic option. Particularly with them "on guard" now. CPU is not used, iphone is glued to her at all times. Furthermore, I just noticed that the phone suddenly has a lockout installed. 

What do you do? let it play out, give more space therefor further enabling this to continue and possibly allowing a more solid and deniable scenario to be concocted? Just sit back like a doormat and wait? I think most of you that have struggled with this hell know that this is not possible for me. I need to know, I take that back. _I know_. I need to prove so I can move on to the next step. Whatever that may be.


----------



## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Hire a privite investigator to get the info. 
You can purchase a GPS tracker for her car that will record where she goes. 
You can hide a digital voice recorder in her car or in the house when she's there alone. 
You can purchase a phone recorder for your house phone (if she uses it to talk with her girlfriends or OM). All can be purchased on-line by doing a Google search.
Regrettably, you already know what's going on. 
I think it's time for a different kind of heart-to-heart conversation with the Mrs. I would say something like this "We aren't making love and our marriage is clearly lacking intimacy. It's obvious that you are getting those needs met elsewhere. While I don't think it's right, I understand. We will need to either fix our marriage or end it. This 'arrangement' just isn't working for me anymore. We both deserve more. If you agree with my desire to fix it, we will need to go to marrital councelling and you'll need to end your affair. If that is not acceptable to you, then I'll begin the process to end our marriage. How much time do you need to give me your decision?" Please keep us posted.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you for your reply. In our situation many of the things you mention won't work.

GPS, no good. It's primarily EA, and long distance at that. VR, no good. talks are seldom to never in car. With our child in the car with her most of the time, doubt it. Home phone, useless. No one uses it, really dont know why we have one. Suspect that she has confided in a few friends and is getting guidance/strategy from them. At this point, they are not sloppy.

P.I., no good. All interaction is phone based. 

Heart-to-heart thing, no good. Tried that, she appears willing to just let it go. As I have read, this "fog" thing is very strong. She's blocked off. If I initiate the divorce proceedings, and follow through. Chances are she follows along and that eliminates ever having to admit the EA took place. Everything falls back on me. Im such a terrible person, and everything is my fault. I am almost sure by doing that it would play right into her hands. She would like nothing better than for me to just let go and push a divorce. Why wouldn't she? gives her all the outs emotionally, she gets to pursue this EA in the light, Im the bad guy. Poor her, she has already laid tons of groundwork in the background to make me the villian. No, that just won't do.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I keep falling back to a public (her public) (ie; siblings, her parents, myspace, facebook, her closest friends) display of *fight* for our marriage and explaining myself... but without being able to show the entire picture, that might be a brickwall as well. Just a "I love her, I want our marriage" confession falls right on the desperate, unsecure, unattractive area...


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I need to know, I take that back. _I know_. I need to prove so I can move on to the next step. Whatever that may be.


Well, since you are convinced, you really don't need to waste your time and money gathering more proof. Most of the concrete evidence is to keep you from doubting yourself anyway.



Workingitout said:


> Regrettably, you already know what's going on.
> I think it's time for a different kind of heart-to-heart conversation with the Mrs. I would say something like this "We aren't making love and our marriage is clearly lacking intimacy. It's obvious that you are getting those needs met elsewhere. While I don't think it's right, I understand. We will need to either fix our marriage or end it. This 'arrangement' just isn't working for me anymore. We both deserve more. If you agree with my desire to fix it, we will need to go to marrital councelling and you'll need to end your affair. If that is not acceptable to you, then I'll begin the process to end our marriage. How much time do you need to give me your decision?" Please keep us posted.


Excellent advice for your next step.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Everything falls back on me. Im such a terrible person, and everything is my fault. I am almost sure by doing that it would play right into her hands. She would like nothing better than for me to just let go and push a divorce. Why wouldn't she? gives her all the outs emotionally, she gets to pursue this EA in the light, Im the bad guy. Poor her, she has already laid tons of groundwork in the background to make me the villian. No, that just won't do.


This is why you let family and close friends know the truth before you lower the boom. Let close family and friends know she had a choice--this outcome is her choice. I've been there--and have endured some horrible rumors. But, my family and friends were quick to set people straight. My estranged husband just thought everyone would buy into the act like your wife is putting on. They didn't!

I know how hard it is to push the envelope. I tried to give my estranged husband his space initially. That approach failed miserable. The more I gave the more he took. That isn't a nice place to be either.


----------



## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm a recovering alcoholic as you seem to be. Of course she has been doing stuff behind your back, you're a drunk, remember? When people can't stop an alcoholic from drinking they do the next best thing, try and save their sanity any way they can. If it wasn't for your child she would of booked long time ago. You are now in a race that will be difficult to win, trying to win back her affection and with an invisible time limit. Sooooooooo, why don't you focus on YOU and make YOU the best YOU that YOU can? That's the only thing YOU can control!! Hope it helps.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I am doing what I can to improve myself. If it's in regard to improving myself as a man and getting back to the person thats always been inside of me. I am almost constantly researching and reflecting on what I've done and how I can fix "me", and be a good father and husband. If I thought that I was incapable of being a great husband, I wouldnt be fighting so hard to save this. Above all, I do want her to be happy. Ive done a truckload of healing as a person. Ive been on a journey, alone. It's been a tough journey and Im sure it will continue to be a tough road. I'm prepared for that.

Giving up, while scary is by far the easier thing to do right now.

If this is in regard to improvement of looks, health, etc.. Im working on that and will continue to work on it. I have made an effort to be more aware of my appearance. (new clothes, etc) I have lost 15lbs since I quit drinking (over 1.5 years)... I know there is more work to do. I will continue to do it.


----------



## upstate_guy (Oct 28, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I am doing what I can to improve myself. If it's in regard to improving myself as a man and getting back to the person thats always been inside of me. I am almost constantly researching and reflecting on what I've done and how I can fix "me", and be a good father and husband. If I thought that I was incapable of being a great husband, I wouldnt be fighting so hard to save this. Above all, I do want her to be happy. Ive done a truckload of healing as a person. Ive been on a journey, alone. It's been a tough journey and Im sure it will continue to be a tough road. I'm prepared for that.
> 
> Giving up, while scary is by far the easier thing to do right now.
> 
> If this is in regard to improvement of looks, health, etc.. Im working on that and will continue to work on it. I have made an effort to be more aware of my appearance. (new clothes, etc) I have lost 15lbs since I quit drinking (over 1.5 years)... I know there is more work to do. I will continue to do it.


Just wanted to wish you luck on your journey of self improvement, I know it can be tough and sometimes feels like you're doing the total opposite of what your instincts are pulling you towards. The fact that you're here on this forum trying to get answers/solutions is a good sign. Just keep that mindset of "the only person I can change is myself" going. I hope things work out for you.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Well...

I had an interesting couple days. I dont know that anything has changed. But I had to do something, so I did.

I finally decided that I had to speak to her parents and at least make them understand how I felt and who I am as a man. I decided that I had to share what I knew, or more accurately I shared it in the context of what I thought I knew. Ommiting "why" I knew. 

Long and short of it was that I told them I knew there was someone else (having no idea if they knew) and I didn't know what I could do. That I love thier daughter and I made a promise. While it would be easier to cut my loses and walk away (which is exactly what I think she would like me to do). I can't. Not just because I love her, actually that really has very little to do with it. Because I have a responsibility to my son, and to myself. I made a promise. That promise was not just to her, it was to myself. 

I spoke to my wife after the conversation. She admitted as much as I will ever be able to expect her to admit. That yes, she has been talking to the OM for a longtime and that it "had gone to far" and that she does love him. The "he was there for me" when I needed someone stuff. Beyond that, I couldn't get any details about exactly what has been done/said/etc.. I'm not sure at this point how important that is. I think that it may eventualy become very important that I know. Right now, I just know what my soul already knew. That yes, there is someone else. 

As far as our conversation about "us" and our future. Not much difference in that conversation. More of the same conversation that we have had many times in the last year or two. That I hurt her, she doesnt know what she wants. Brickwall.

Exactly where I go from here, I don't know. 

Just a quick update, there are obviously alot more details, thoughts, feelings, etc... involved with what is happening. They are a jumble right now. The only clarity I have is a resolve not to quit my family.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

What I did not include in my last update was that I sent the OM a email. Stating simply that we needed to talk. I got a reply that he would call me, He left a message on Sunday. Really simple, "hey how's it going, just returning your call". I haven't spoken to him yet. Aside from having the flu all week and being very sick and not being able to get my head straight, I have not decided how to handle this call. We do need to talk, and I will put it out there. Exactly how I should do that (confrontational, adversary, articulately explaining what he is doing and the consequences, collateral effects, etc..)? 

I saw someone else recommend in another thread that I should not confront him? Why? and how can I not?


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Pit, I've read through your thread, and I wanted to add a few comments for you to consider:

First, I would not recommend having a 'heart to heart' talk with a man who is willing to sleep with your wife. At the very most, all that conversation needs to include are the words "I love my wife and am doing all I can to save my marriage." 

After that, he is irrelevant, and you can ignore him. I can assure you that a man willing to sleep with your wife is not going to side with you to help you recover your marriage!

Second observation: You are spinning your wheels, and feeling anxiety because you are operating under the wrong presuppositions. You believe that in order to recover your marriage, your wife needs to start working on it with you.

Never gonna happen. It is entirely up to you to get started, to lay the groundwork, and to present a home to which she would want to return. That means many things, including setting and stating specific boundaries, admitting and rectifying your part in the dissolution of your marriage, and refusing to enable the affair. 

You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, and get to work. 

You ask above: "Where do you go from here?" and you point out that she is still saying the same thing she has been saying for a long time: that you "...hurt her, she doesn't know what she wants...." etc., etc. 

Two thing here:

First keep in mind that she is justifying the affair by magnifying your faults and minimizing your strengths. She is magnifying the Other Man's strengths, and minimizing his faults. This is what we call 'the fog.' Buried in there, however, is the truth. It may be skewed and distorted, out of perspective, but it is there. 

This leads to my second point: "where do I go from here?" - 

You need to start living the life she believes you won't. Regardless of whether she is around you or not, regardless of whether this brings her back or not, how you live is important to your health.

Don't live in expectations. Don't dwell on 'what should be' - dwell on what you are doing _right now_. Yes, it would be nice if she would drop the affair and come running back to you. And that is your goal. But she is not likely to come back if all she senses are promises of change. What she needs to see is a life of change.

And when you've accomplished this task, the process of dealing with the hurt she has caused will be that much easier. 

At the same time, you should be combating the affair: do not enable it in any way. Take a look at process that creates increasing pressure on the affair.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

*Re: Not "coping" now*

Thank you sincerly for your reply.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Sent him an email, said simply that I loved my wife and would do anything to save my family. He replied with shock and denial. Asking me what I was talking about and being fairly indignant that I would accuse him of anything. "your wife and I are just friends", etc, etc, etc... Said he wanted to talk. So I did. More of the same, denial, etc. But, I don't know what else I would have expected. While Im certain my wife was well aware I spoke with him, she never confronted me about it or even brought it up. Did accuse me of snoping on her and said she felt like I was always watching her. She said she felt like a child being watched by her parents and didnt need to feel that way. 

I really don't like the person that this situation is turning me into.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Need to give an update and I can hardly type.. Im on emotional / mental overload and a bit shaky.

So, We spoke last night and I confronted her again. She seemed to be expecting it or rather instigating me. 

Anyway, She admited to everything.

Everything I suspected. She is having an EA with the person I mentioned. This has been ongoing for a longtime. Appearently they have been cyber boyfriend-girlfriend. I say cyber because as I mentioned the communication is all text, phone, etc... He has not been in town for over a year. She assured me that she has never physically been with him. Whether I belive that entirely, I don't know. Its hard to know what to believe. 

They are "in love" with each other. She doesnt know what she wants. She's torn. I asked her "what do you want me to do about this?", her reply was "I don't know". I guess much of this is fairly textbook for affairs and her being deep in the "fog". Doesn't feel as cut & dry and textbook when its stomped into my soul though. 

This conversation was last night. I havent done anything yet, Im frankly too overwelmed to think straight and I dont trust making decisions when Im this emotionally comprimised. Obviously Im incredibly hurt, angry, and confused. 

Please talk to me.

Do I need to "Stike while the iron is hot?" Is it imparitve that I move quickly and decisively?

Three things I think are important and I should mention.

1. While Im cripled with pain and indecision, Deep down I do love my wife and I do want to do everything I can to save my marriage/family.

2. She claims that no one knows. Her family doesnt know. I mentioned I had told her parents what I suspected, when they spoke with her about it (she tells me) she assured them the same as she assured me, that nothing was happening. She said yes, she lied to them about it. They believed her and said "we didnt think so".

3. This other person my "friend" is actually in the military. When I said he traveled, thats why. Because of that fact, I do have that card. (but, I dont want to play that card if Im not forced to.) The military frowns upon this type of thing, big time. (ie; military code of conduct). Its takes everything in me not to confront him about this now that the cats out of the bag and denial is not a option.


----------



## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

From the link mentioned above:

"Step 6) Consequences. In this step you write the disloyal a letter and explain that you love them, admit the things you did to contribute to the affair, indicate what you're doing to end those things, and then say that unless they end ALL contact with the OP and never, EVER contacts the OP again, you need to end all contact with the disloyal. The idea behind this step is to give them a more realistic taste of what divorce could be like--to not have you in their life to meet ANY needs! They also can no longer depend on you for those little household chores, blame you for the day's events, nothing. Here are some Sample Consequences Letters For some practicalities, if you have children one of the common things a female disloyal will pull is wanting the loyal to do things "...for the children" when really it's to meet one of her needs. In the Consequences Step, it is already set up ahead of time that there is an intermediary or buffer between the disloyal and loyal spouse. This can be a person who agrees to do it...this can be a notebook that the children carry in their backpack when they go between houses... but by no means is the loyal spouse to accept phone calls or read IM's or emails.

If the disloyal calls the loyal should say something like, "Are you calling because you're ready to end the affair? Oh, you're not? Then please respect my wished for no contact until you're ready to do that. Goodbye" and hang up. All email attempts, just forward to the intermediary. Keep the focus on ending the affair and recovering marriage. Don't get caught up in arguing over secondary or trivial issues.

Undoubtedly by this point life is not going great for the disloyal as they persist in doing what they know is wrong, and so they need to have someone in their life whom they can blame for everything that's going wrong. If the loyal spouse is the one getting the blame a) that extinguishes a lot of love for the loyal spouse and b) that give the disloyal spouse somewhere to displace the blame rather than looking at themselves and their own choices! So it is necessary for this time of no contact in order to maintain what little bit of love the loyal spouse may still have and allow the disloyal to take personal responsibility for their choices as soon as possible.

Again, in this stage there are occasionally disloyal spouses whose affair just die a natural death--the OP just gets sick of it and leaves them--or they begin to realize that a divorce would be VERY painful to them...and they think maybe that too much water has passed under the bridge. Periodically let your disloyal know that you would be willing to have them back and work on the marriage. but that at this point some substantial damage has been done. Invite them to return. If this is your case, consider yourself blessed and move to the phase of recovering your marriage!!If it is not, move to step 7."

Hope this helps!!


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> Do I need to "Stike while the iron is hot?" Is it imparitve that I move quickly and decisively


Yes Yes Yes



> Three things I think are important and I should mention.
> 
> 1. While Im cripled with pain and indecision, Deep down I do love my wife and I do want to do everything I can to save my marriage/family.


You asked what do you do, its is straight forward , you send a mail to everyone she cares for telling them she is committing adultery, mention in your letter she acknowledged the inappropriate contact with the OM to you, if you have his folks, wife, siblings addresses, mobile numbers etc you do send them a mail as well

Sample below, add the extra words.. Do not delay the longer you wait the more difficult it will be for you 


Dear ........., I would like to ask you to support......... and myself in restoring our marriage which currently is undergoing an extremely difficult time due to ........ and ........... being involved in an adulterous affair which is affecting our marriage and both of our physical and mental health. I know you care about .......... and want only the best for her which clearly being used in an adulterous affair is not. I would like to ask your help in recommending marital counseling to her to guide us through this difficult spot in our marriage.






> 2. She claims that no one knows. Her family doesnt know. I mentioned I had told her parents what I suspected, when they spoke with her about it (she tells me) she assured them the same as she assured me, that nothing was happening. She said yes, she lied to them about it. They believed her and said "we didnt think so".


Your letter will resolve that




> 3. This other person my "friend" is actually in the military. When I said he traveled, thats why. Because of that fact, I do have that card. (but, I dont want to play that card if Im not forced to.) The military frowns upon this type of thing, big time. (ie; military code of conduct). Its takes everything in me not to confront him about this now that the cats out of the bag and denial is not a option.


Obtain the contact details of his senior officer, a warning here the military in my experience will only action something if he is in the same unit as you or in the same unit as she is..other than that they tend to listen and do little. Send him a formal letter saying you are aware of his affair, your wife has acknowledged this to you and that contact between the two of them ceases. FYI this will have little impact on him, its a process so if anyone says anything you can confirm you have written to him 


Gather more evidence , read up on Plan A, affairs happen for a reason and you must understand that you will need to change .

Work on yourself, your self esteem,make you the man she wants to be with. Pop over to the marriage builders and the affaircare sites and read up on the processes to better yourself, work on filling her love banks and recovering the marriage.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Applepies said:


> From the link mentioned above:
> 
> "Step 6) Consequences. In this step you write the disloyal a letter and explain that you love them, admit the things you did to contribute to the affair, indicate what you're doing to end those things, and then say that unless they end ALL contact with the OP and never, EVER contacts the OP again, you need to end all contact with the disloyal. The idea behind this step is to give them a more realistic taste of what divorce could be like--to not have you in their life to meet ANY needs! They also can no longer depend on you for those little household chores, blame you for the day's events, nothing. Here are some Sample Consequences Letters For some practicalities, if you have children one of the common things a female disloyal will pull is wanting the loyal to do things "...for the children" when really it's to meet one of her needs. In the Consequences Step, it is already set up ahead of time that there is an intermediary or buffer between the disloyal and loyal spouse. This can be a person who agrees to do it...this can be a notebook that the children carry in their backpack when they go between houses... but by no means is the loyal spouse to accept phone calls or read IM's or emails.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply, This step is not possible in many regards.

For one, we obviously live together and own a home. Legally, I have been advised that leaving the family home is one sure way I could get screwed legally as far as who gets the house. If I were to leave the family home in legal terms that constitutes "abandonment" and she could easily leverage that into being awarded the house if this situation ends in divorce.

Leaving is not an option.

Re; Natural death of the affair. Not going to happen. This OP is undoubtedly very in love with my W. This has been on going for a longtime and this person is very "needy, clingy"... He's not going to walk. He was engaged once before. When his fiancé cheated on him and left the relationship he tried to commit suicide. I just dont know how he will handle this "breakup" but I can assure you it wont be pretty and he will not be a "man" about it and walk away... She couldnt have chosen a worse person to attach too.

Re; Consequences. The problems with our relationship stemmed from my emotional and physical unavailability. I’ve been trying this distance thing for sometime and its only made things much worse. Aside from enabling the extra marital relationship and pushing her closer to him as she seeks comfort and companionship it further cements her her belief that I will not be there for her... This distance thing has done the exact opposite of what I would have hoped. Don't think that is a good idea.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Regarding the disclosure letter recommendation...

Absolutely, I am drafting this letter today and have been thinking it over... My only concern or sticking point is...

*I have looked around and found the sample "consequence" letters at affaircare.com some are terrific and IM sure maybe usefull when I get to this stage... Does anyone else have a link to "disclosure letters" samples of the letter to send to friends and family about the affair?*

I just cant decide how far to throw this out there...

I do not want to humilitate my wife, more to the point I dont know if I want to humiliate her family which is a real concern. They are old fashioned and Im not sure exactly how alientated they would be if I were to send this letter to "the world".... 

Im just having trouble with this... I have spoken with my employer about the whole situation and let them know (as advised) what is going on and the effect it has been having / will likely continue to effect my work... As far as sending this to her employer (she is a school teacher) or sending this to the OM's family or employer (military) I just dont know... Regarding our friends and her personal friends (many of which she has distanced from me and no doubt convinced what a terrible guy I am) Im not sure how far to push this.... 

Writing letter today though... Can someone who has done this please tell me what experince they have had with it, how far the went in the circle of influence (friends/family/etc...) good or bad or the results?...


Please talk to me.. This is likely the biggest event of my life and my familys future depends on it... If I can avoid making a mistake here that will reverbirate through all of our lives forever, I need to try.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Well.... I am taking action. I wrote the letter and sent it to all of our closest friends. I also spoke personally with her parents again, and contacted her sister.

I don't know how this will turn out when the dust settles but so far its a mixed bag...

The parents / sister thing was a disaster. They were very defensive, and the theme of the conversation was mixed between blaming me, justifying the affair (which they must have said "but..it's not physical, its just emotional" about 100 times) and urging me to give up, thats its fine to walk away. Same with the sister. She doesn't like me and never has. She was also quite hurtful and "attacked" me continuously. "Again, more of the maybe it just wasn't meant to be" stuff. Those conversations were absolutely painful and very dejecting. I guess I should have expected all that, actually deep down, I did. But, I said it. I explained how I feel and what Im trying to do. It might end up doing more harm than good, but I said what I had to.

The letters to our close friends seem to be working better. They have almost all gotten involved and have asked my wife to talk. They want to help. Actually, they told her (the wives in our group of close friends)(3 or 4 of them) that they have arranged an intervention, and that they want her to come meet with all of them to talk.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Hang in there it will get busier, if she has facebook do the same to all her friends on her list. As for the school, is your marriage worth more than her embarrassment, let them know as well. 

Anyway she is proud to have the affair so tell the truth, work can be a great discomfort if all know.


I do suggest you try track his sibling and parents down and expose to them as well. There are sites that you can enter his name and some details and they will give you names and addresses of the folks.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry reread your thread so if the OM is/was your friend do you have his parents and siblings details as well as his friends you must rock the boat and get him out of the way. All you are doing is telling the truth. 

To cover yourself search for "emotional affair" so if people argue you send them a copy of the output, check for a thread started by "i_feel_broken" I believe I saw in one of his earlier links a site that explained clearly what an EA is. or go to the affaircare site or marriage builders , they should have some detail for you.

Suggest you send this to the friend who intend to help you as well, it give clarity on what an EA is

The link I was referring to is below

http://www.womensinfidelity.com/


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach~

When you do exposure, you do it so that the people who will likely be affected by a divorce are notified. Part of an affair is that the Disloyal will justify their affair TO their parents and siblings, usually either claiming some sort of abuse (like: "S/He was emotionally abusive! I had to leave!") or trying to minimize it and keep it out of the light of day (like: "It's none of their business.") For example, the Loyal catches their Disloyal IN THE ACT. As the Disloyal puts their clothes on, they deny and say "It's not what it looked like." The Loyal is frankly--FREAKED OUT-- and yells at the Disloyal for three hours, then throws the Disloyal's clothing out the window (very out-of-character behavior by the Loyal). The next day, the Disloyal tells their parents, " <Loyal> and I are getting a divorce. I just can't take his/her emotional abuse any longer. Just last night s/he yelled at me for three hours and threw my clothes out the window. I can't take it anymore!" Did you notice the Disloyal did not even MENTION their part or the affair? And when the Loyal asks the Disloyal "Well did you tell them it's because I discovered you with another man in our bed?" they'll say "Oh that's none of their business." 

The exposure part is so that the parents know, "But honey, Loyal called us 2 minutes after he/she threw your clothes out the window to let us know he found you and <OP> having sex in your bed at home. And yes Loyal is pretty freaked out about that! How could you have an affair? We raised you better than that!" 

Exposure is NOT for embarrassment or gossip, nor is it to drag your spouse's name through the mud. It's not to "get people on your side.' It is so that those who may be affected--parents, siblings, both employers, couple friends, lifelong friends, your pastor/religious leader--know the truth without judgement. It should be very factual, and possibly end with encouraging them to help you fight for the marriage, but mainly it should be a fairly business-like "notification." And I do suggest informing both employers (yours and hers) because your productivity will lower, you may need days off to go to court, and if they don't know why, you might be fired. If they do know why, often they can work with you in some way so you don't lose your job. 

Finally, for the parents: when they are _"...defensive, and the theme of the conversation was mixed between blaming me, justifying the affair (which they must have said "but..it's not physical, its just emotional" about 100 times) and urging me to give up, thats its fine to walk away" _ it is disappointing that some families don't have the moral wherewithall to stand up to a child that's doing wrong and say, "Honey we love you and you are our child, but it's not right to destroy your family and marriage so you can commit adultery. How can we help you end the affair?" Sadly, with no-fault divorce it's becoming more and more acceptable (and easy) to just ignore your commitments! So it's sad but not utterly surprising. When they blame you, I suggest rather than joining the fray, agree with them then turn it around on them, like this: 

THEM: "Well if you had been home more she wouldn't have gotten so lonely and found someone new" 
YOU: "You're right. Why should I accept a woman as my wife who wouldn't even tell me she was lonely and then turn outside the marriage to just any other new guy?"

THEM: "...but..it's not physical, its just emotional"
YOU: "You're right. Why should I be upset that my wife is giving her feelings, affection and loyalty to some other man. After all having sex with me is all that it means to be faithful, right?" 

See what I mean? Same with the sister. And when they say "Maybe it wasn't meant to be" you can say "When she stood before God and witnesses and made a promise to forsake all others, that MADE it 'meant to be.' "


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the replies.. Your support and insight is about these life altering decisions is appreciated dearly. 

Here's a situation that just popped up, that I could use some advice on..

Her Sister, who I spoke with and disclosed my feelings about this too and whom I explained does not like me and has made clear that she has never thought I was "the guy" for her sister... Wants me to forward the e-mail I sent to my friends to her. I have told her exactly what I said in the email when I spoke with her, and she made clear she doesn't support me or the marriage and would just assume I just "walk away"... She was and I guess still is very concerned with what I said in this email... 

I had intended on sending it to her when I sent it to my other friends, I just didnt have her e-mail address at the time. WHen she asked me (obviously my W told her about this) "What is with this e-mail your sending to everyone telling them my sister is having an affair??" I explained (again) what it said and offered to send it to her, she said "if you want to, it doesnt matter".... Now today she is asking me for it...

How do I handle that? She is obviously not going to support me in my efforts to save my marriage and is clearly more concerened I am slandering her sister or somthing like that...

Do I ? I dont want to alienate her family anymore than nessasary here they are an extremely important part of her life, but they are not going to help me here...


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Let's assume she's saying: "What is with this e-mail your sending to everyone telling them my sister is having an affair?? Please send me a copy." 

"I have already told you about the affair and some of the information I have to prove it's unfaithfulness, and you've made it clear you intend to support your sister's affair. Thus no thank you. At this time I decline to send you a copy. Sincerely, ~Pit-of-my-stomach" 

You don't have any obligation to send her a copy, nor to explain why you don't want to. You could even just say "No thanks--at this time I do not want to sent you a copy." and that's it! Right now your wife is likely trying to cover her tracks and justify or explain that they are "just friends" and you have a jealousy issue. You don't need to fall into that spider web--just say "no." You could be a bit of a smarty-pants and tell her to ask her sister to see her text messages and cellphone records.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

No you have already told her verbally. She is not going to support you so ignore her from now on, the only time you talk to her again is if she fully supports you rebuilding your marriage.

You must expose her at work, you must revise the words search Jar's thread for some words that affaircare placed therein.

Do not forget to tell his folks and siblings as well. Do this quickly drip, drip works against you.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Ah yes! Nothing kills an affair faster than the OM's wife being informed of the affair, waving the print out of the proof in his face, and putting her foot down! 9 times out of 10 he'll bail in a heartbeat, because TOM is usually a playah who's in this for the fun and the thrill...not to have to put up with anger from TWO women!


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Ah yes! Nothing kills an affair faster than the OM's wife being informed of the affair, waving the print out of the proof in his face, and putting her foot down! 9 times out of 10 he'll bail in a heartbeat, because TOM is usually a playah who's in this for the fun and the thrill...not to have to put up with anger from TWO women!


He's not married. He has a girlfriend, My wife. 

Regarding informing my W's employer, I can not risk putting her job / career at risk. The hornets nest with her family who has made it clear they are not supporting me in these efforts and making excuses for her all the while, is stirred up as badly as can be imagined. They are a very close family and I do not know if I can fight a full onslaught/campaign against me coming directly from them. She is very humilited, and very ANGRY with me. Which as you have pointed out was to be expected. She believes that I am trying to hurt her and has accused me of manipulating everyone around me. She believes that everything I do is manipulation. No matter what I say, or what I do Im accused of manipulation. 

Regarding informing his family/employer... that is the next step. I do not know who his parents are nor how to reach them, and from what I understand I dont know how much that will matter. I have been told that they are estranged to some degree. That is not going to stop me from trying. I am sending him a letter informing him to cease contact with my wife (verbally I have already done that and he says (via text, wont talk to me anymore, is avoiding me) he is backing off "until" we figure out what we are going to do... Which obviously I dont believe. Even if he is Im certain he's playing the "I'll be waiting when you decide" card with her... I need to find a way to sever it or try on his side, the pressure on my W's side is being applied...

Any help anyone can offer on suggestions to do this is appreciated.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Good work.. 


As her family are backing her you have to find other area that rocks her boat, she will hide behind her family, the friends knowing will impact her but not enough. 


I see you said you do not want to let your wife’s work know. A few questions for you, did she make the calls while she was at work? have text messages been sent by while she is at work.? If you can confirm this then…

You must expose her to her work, she is using school time to conduct her affair, I doubt she will lose her job; she may get a reprimand on her file that is all.

You do this by calling the headmaster, understand that the headmaster may choose to try brush this under the rug but during the conversation with him ( you are very irate that the she is conducting he affair on school time) you drop in that there is a letter for the school board regarding her conduct with evidence. Say know more, do not say you are sending it. 

The work is a very effective place to break the affair, her family are supporting her and will contact the friends to make out you are wrong. 

You are doing well to date so do not dilute this, others have avoided exposure the workplace as you are proposing and are still trying to break their spouses affairs, in some cases they have missed the opportunity. 


In the interim you are in Plan A.. better yourself, exercise, eat well, prepare yourself for an emotional and mental battle with her and her family. At all time when you see her be the best husband you can be. Polite respectful , do not discuss the affair or the OM. 

Now for the OM, if you wish to write a note make this the last one, similar words that you sent to your friends.

Start with something like "As you are aware you are in an adulterous affair with my wife, xxxx etc..etc 



Find out details of his unit HR/ commanding officer and send them a letter advising them he is in an affair with your wife. If you can find his friends details send the same mail to them, especially if they are woman. 

You exposure has to be massive, everyone she know or cares for must be shaken by her affair, the more the better. 

*The angrier she is the better, exposure is then working*. Please do not underestimate the power of exposure at her work. Do not miss this opportunity 

Do not forget to research emotional affair to send to the friends and her family .. If you are not sure post the links here for comments 

Best wishes and keep on track


----------



## i_feel_broken (Jul 5, 2010)

pit,

i have been in your exact situation and tried everything you tried. In my situation I am convinced nothing I tried would have worked. Exposure doesn't end the affair it just makes sure it is you who is seen to be the victim not her.

My wife is back home after leaving to live with OM. I think this was inevitable (both the leaving and returning). All the stuff i tried didn't stop the affair but it did make my wife realise how much I loved her and wanted her even if, at the time, it didn't seem to make a difference. The only thing that made my wife come home is realising the affair was not as perfect as she thought and the fact I put the house on the market, looked into divorce and asked her for a contribution to the fees and worked on ME ME and ME. I must add throughout this I was nearly always polite, calm and kind to my wife. Deep down I was struggling to accept it was over but I acted as if it was, got my self together and made steps to start a life of my own - including identifying a house to buy.

She came home as she says she saw the real me and was terrified of losing me, she respected me for how well I had handled the affair and wanted to work on the family. I also think the relationship with OM turned out to not be as perfect as it was in the affair.

I know it is a hard step to take and it's hard to believe that it is the right thing to do and that you can cope with it but I would ask her calmly "are you going to end the affair right now". If she chooses not to start the wheels in motion to leave her to it. How fun will it be to have a relationship which most will frown at and see as a dirty affair and that is so long distance. I'm sure when she sees you being a great man and getting on with your life WITHOUT her she will start to crack. If she doesn't then I can't see what else you can do.

Not everyone will agree but thats my advice, based on my experience.

best of luck, feel free to PM me if you need to


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> The link I was referring to is below
> 
> Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity



Thank you so much for the link, I have read alot of it and intend to share some of what is provided with the people in our lives that intend to help... Or perhaps with her? Is it usefull to point these things out to her and how common they really are (much of what Ive read is almost scary in it's accuracy)

Could anyone else provide some addfitional insight or links to information on emotional affairs, the stages, common symptoms, etc...??

I have searched as much as time have allowed on the subject... with the holiday weekend, trying to find time alone to research is very difficult.

Thank you all so much, I do have more to share and some updates that I intend to post soon but Im pressed for time... Im consumed with "action" and my little boy is drawing on my back with markers as I type this... lol.


----------



## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

Pit: As far as the military goes, attempt to find out what service he is in, and what squadron (unit) he is with. If you are unable to find out the unit, find out his job and where he is stationed (state / city can be used if you don't want to give away how much you are digging for this). The reason for this is to find a way to contact his first sergeant ("First Shirt"). One of the previous posters is correct; Your wife and you have no connection to him in the military, so contacting anyone else would be pointless. The First Sergeant is directly responsible for the people in the unit, and will be only one who will listen to you. Even if he listens, he is not required to do anything other than talk to the service member once about it. If the service member actual admits to what he is doing, the shirt can take action, but the level of involvement varies from branch to branch, and how much the First Sergeant actually cares.

Just a side note as well- Sorry if you already stated his branch of service, but if he is Navy (or Coast Guard), the First Sergeant responsibilities is split up between multiple CPOs, the XO and CoB, which would make contacting someone much more difficult.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

He claimed that he will not contact her again until we figure out our situation and she figures out what she wants. She claimed in our last conversation that he has not contacted her in almost a week. That he doesn't want to talk with her right now. Whether or not I believe either of them about anything is a whole different story. I just don't know what to believe, Im not sure which way is up and which way is down at this point. 

She is clearly going through "fog" withdrawl. We got into an agruement/conversation this weekend that prompted me to tell her that I had/have done everything that I can and that I am just about "done", to which I got "well then what are we going to do?" clearly she was prompting me to suggest divorce and push in that direction. (she has done this a number of times recently). I told her that I understood what she was gong through and where she was going with that. I tried to make her understand that I knew she was going through "withdrawl" and that most of the stages and reactions that she has had during this crisis were common for people that were going through what is happening. She acted like she really wanted help and wanted to understand these things that are happening to her (us). I showed her the link which was posted above that outlines the common stages of female adultry and some of the feelings women commly have during. She seemed receptive and even replied with " so, this is normal?, these feelings?" I dont know what good or bad showing her these things was... I have an overwelming instinct to try to help her, and help her understand that I know what she must be going through... despite her showing very little empathy for what I am enduring... 

I don't know what to read into our interactions the remainder of the weekend. I have been right there the entire time, and I have made sure to be "myself" and do the little things. I feel like I was supportive and continued to be a good father and did not withdraw which is my instinct/coping mechanism when faced which such enormous pain and seeing that she clearly has not made a decision and is clearly on the fence about what she wants... 

The interactions still seemed forced like she was going through the motions but wasn't "there"... she was polite and tried to talk with me (small talk) but I got the feeling she just doesn't like confrontation and above all I think that she doesn't want to hurt me and would love it if through this we could remain friends regardless...


**edit**

She just sent me a text saying "I am sorry for everything that I am putting you thru. I just want you to know that"

I don't know how to read into that or respond????. 

I don't even know that I should???.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

just another quick event/conversation that I think bares mentioning..

Right after the above text she sent she called me a few hours later (a few minutes ago)...

She has been going out of her way to include me in things that involve my son the last week... sending me video's of him while he is playing games while I was out of the house (having coffee talking with my best friend about this situation and interacting with other friends who are offering me much needed support) sending me e-mails about events that involve my son, sending me pics of a bike we are buying him for Xmas.. etc, etc...

Well she asked me when she called why I was "acting weird"... She said "why are you acting strange?, I'm trying here... Im really trying" "when you act strange its hard for me". 

Admittedly, I may be guarded. Things Ive continued to uncover have caused me to be very sceptical, Ive been lied to repeatedly for so long its difficult not to be. I don't feel like she's trying... if anything she may be trying or saying she is just to be able to say she is? This happened when we went to a "marriage counselor" about a year ago... We went three times, all of which were really a joke. Aside from the counselor being just awful, the entire thing seemed like it was me trying to get through to her and her venting about all the things Ive done to her emotionally... We weren't working on anything. It seemed she was just explaining why she wasn't working on it... It was just disasterous and very frustrating. More brick wall. Obviously come to find out, she was having this affair during that entire timeframe... but a month after the fact she said "well, I tried marriage counseling! maybe it just can't be fixed"...


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit,, 

Here is a test, ask your wife who is "'m trying here... Im really trying" "when you act strange its hard for me"." to register on the MB surviving an affair forum and tell her tale of woe. 

Do not mention you are here, either she will decline or she will register and if does she follows the guideline from that forum you will then both be aligned. If she says no then you have your answer. Keep plugging Plan A

Keep this forum for yourself.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Pit,,
> 
> Here is a test, ask your wife to register on the MB surviving an affair forum and tell her tale of woe.
> 
> ...


That's not a bad idea in concept, I would love for her to have or seek support and read these stories so she could see others who have gone through waht we are going trough and come out the other side... But...

Why/how could/would she do that knowing that I would read it or fearing that I would respond to her posts and that it would be anything but confidential?

And yes, I am keeping this forum to myself. But, with me urging her there she would not have that to "herself"?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> Why/how could/would she do that knowing that I would read it or fearing that I would respond to her posts and that it would be anything but confidential?


Because you give her a commitment that you won't..trust let her know she can trust you not to look ... I will not tell you what is being said I will however give the same advice to recover the marriage.


----------



## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

I respectfully disagree with the previous advice. "Testing" your partner right now seems a bit drastic, just as some of the previous comments have been. Getting her to say yes/no is putting pressure on her, and if you attempt to force an answer out of her, she will work against you. Making things more dramatic than needs be is a sure fire way to push her further away.

My humble opinion is to simply communicate. These are just misc. text messages and calls.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> She just sent me a text saying "I am sorry for everything that I am putting you thru. I just want you to know that"
> 
> I don't know how to read into that or respond????.
> 
> I don't even know that I should???.


Your responses show that clearly you are thinking emotionally right now. How about "I appreciate you being able to put yourself in my shoes, and that you understand how hard this is for me. Thank you for involving me more." or something of that nature? She was reflecting (which is a VERY good thing) and you were baffled. Think about this "test" - What if he says no. What if you pressuring her is what pushes her to a breaking point? Do you want to have that on your chest tomorrow morning- that maybe if you hadn't been so forceful for answers maybe things wouldn't be so tense right now? I understand there is a process Eli is following, and it has its place, but being dynamic to the situation appears to be more productive to me at this point.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok....

It's hard for me to explain all of this, Im emotionally spent and my will to persevere is almost destroyed. Again.

I will try to make this short and tell you where I am right now..

I did respond to the text with a simliar reply to what was recommended by Avenrandom (thank you). The situation is very dynamic as you pointed out, I dont know if she is ready or I am ready to "test" her with the suggestion to join MB and hash out her story. I did bring it up, and she seemed receptive though (placating me?)... Maybe we get there, maybe not. That's ultimately her decision and she has to be in a place where she is ready for that.

So.. text exchange

Me: "thanks for trying to understand what Im going through"

W: "I do understand, please dont think Im some heartless person"

Me: "I wouldnt be fighting with all my soul to save a marriage to a heartless person. You have one of the biggest hearts Ive ever known. I just bruised it badly and it doesn't trust me right now, I understand that"

W: "So then stop acting like you hate me, your making me very uncomfortable"

The following day or two I began to get that gut feeling that she had gotten a "fix" and that she had to have been in contact with him... I wasnt seeing the tiny glimpses of "my wife" that I had been seeing here and there for moments anymore, she was distant and angry again... For one, I had no way to verify my suspicion as she has changed the password to our cell phone accounts sometime in the last few days... 

Despite trying not to confront, I couldnt help it after I walked into the room while she was on the CPU and realized she was changing her password on her email.. and that the password she was changing it to (or from) was HIS NAME!... I held my tongue and said nothing, like I didnt see her do it.

Anyway... Last night after she did something else that was suspicious (didnt want to hand me her phone when I asked if I could see it, and not to snoop I want to see if it had a port to stream video's from her phone (netflix) to our TV)... That popped the cork off my ability to hold anything in... I asked her pointedly what her password was, obviously she lied straight to my face... Over and over and over. I told her I saw her type his name into the password of her email... and after she lied (about sevral other things too, but I didnt "call to the carpet") she said she lied because she was "scared of me"!!!! (OMFG!!, Ive never dont anything to ever justify any fear of me NEVER! Nothing! never physical or threatening in anyway in 10+ years)

Let me just give the nutshell of the rest...

Turns out she had been talking to him again (despite me being told they had not been talking at all (by both of them) via text(s)...

Told me "I hope your happy, he's gone" (very upset!) Appearently she claims they were saying goodbyes because he was being the hero and didnt want to talk with her anymore... they exchanged texts which _Im told_ was him saying he was getting out of the way and it was for the best, and he was sorry for ruining her life/family and he was just trying to be her friend and didnt mean for this to happen, etc..etc.. Then _Im told_ he has blocked her calls and will no longer answer her texts...

Obviously she is torn up / distraught and very angry with me... and alot mor of the standard stuff "it's my fault" "you cost me a friend" "I miss him", etc..etc..etc... 

She also told me she has found a new confidant to talk to about everything, someone (female) that knows her OM and her very well and its helping her to cope by talking to this other person... 

OK, enough... Im drained, beat up and just spent right now... there is more, and I will share but Im interested in everyones thoughts so far???...


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

For now carry on with Plan A, you must change the way you talk to her, being truthful is not the issue its how you communicate, tone of voice etc.. 

Go see a doctor and ask for some meds to help you, the stress will get worse.

Buy a keylogger and load it onto the PC, I will post some links later. You need hard evidence of what is being mailed or typed and these will get the evidence for you. Even family can't deny hard facts. 

Gather the mobile phone bills and confirm the times she is texting. Is this during working hours. 

At this moment you are stressed, so take a break , breathe and get some control back, your well being is important. 

You wife should be just as stressed so observe her actions. 

Speak to your boss let him know what is happening, they will have noticed you are taking pressure. 

Hang in there.. be strong for your family


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok, so please read my last entry and I will complete my thoughts...

Im torn up. I have 2 completely different paths in front of me... I have to take one of them, but they conflict greatly...

1 is withdraw. This hurt is unbearable and consuming. I am the one doing all the work and trying desprately to be understanding of her pain and what she must be going through (I read daily about all of it, the entire process, the stages, etc..) Why am I doing ALL of the work and being the person who is charged with holding this together? I accept reponsibility for the dynamic I created with my emotional unavailablity and the damage which was created in large part due to the fact that I had an alcohol problem, which I am dealing with (no drinking, etc for 1.5+ years) But, I did not make these choices. She did. She has done these things and will not take any responsibilty for her part in this marriage or the problems we are through, and doesnt have any motivation to work on it. 

2. Continue to stick it out and essentially be the one doing all the work and feeling like a doormat, emotional punching bag while she gets through the "withdrawl" stages and see where we stand and go from there. Much of what I read says I have to "be present" and "be the person she wants to be with" and prove that Im not going anywhere, give her reason to "choose me (& her familiy)" "work on me (which I have been doing (church, gym, good father)". I have no way of knowing how much, how often, and to what degree she continues to "get fixes" of him which prolong any attempt to take ANY step towrds what my end goal has been. Which is obviously to be the best husband and father I can be and give 110% to trying to salvage my marriage...


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> For now carry on with Plan A, you must change the way you talk to her, being truthful is not the issue its how you communicate, tone of voice etc..


I'm not positive exactly what "Plan A" is... Im just doing as suggested here combined with what my gut tells me to do... 

But, how do you continue to try to communicate and be supportive when your met with constant anger, hurtfulness, and lies. Everything is lies, I dont know what to think or believe. In thoery keeping a strong facade, being supportive and all that is great... in practice, when your met with lies, anger, and a brickwall, and you feel disrespected and walked over daily it's not something thats easy to continue to do.. It's virtually impossible to stay "in character", when your soul is telling you "Pit, you dont deserve to be treated like this"..




Eli-Zor said:


> Speak to your boss let him know what is happening, they will have noticed you are taking pressure.


I have.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

In summary Plan A is to better yourself in the eyes of your wife. Plan A is different for each person. 

For example . 

You take on an equal share of the household work

You control your emotions

You never raise your voice, argue or fight

You speak in an audible tome, clearly stating your position

You stop love busting, you have been married to her for some time so you must know what annoys her.

You do those items or deeds that fill her love bank. 

You are in effect courting her within your own marriage.

Your very actions will be the message to her,

This is not a temporary measure this is a permanent activity for the rest of your life. 

I am sure further examples will from from the forum members. 

Buy the "his needs, her needs " by Dr Haley from Amazon. read it and if she can read it as well it will be a win, do not pressure her, the affair will stop when she is ready. 

As for the anger and lies, this is normal, she is hurting and wants the OM and will continue to be like this until she is out of the fog. This could take weeks or months. The only way she comes out of the fog is if she has zero contact with the OM for a long period of time. Be patient be strong and keep control. Do not agree to her leaving the house, is she decides to go and you have children that reside in your house , they continue to stay with you. She is then choosing to abandon her family.


This is a long journey hence the advice to look after your well being, As for your wife while you may offer moral support and kind words if she is continuing to talk to the OM in front of you you make it clear in a polite way that you will not accept her committing adultery in your house. Then leave it be.

As for exposure,

Check the phone bill for the text messages. 

Do not believe your wife regarding a female friend, she is in lying mode.

Some prep work:- if she has facebook, obtain details of all her friends, email addresses as well if you can 

Is the OM on facebook do the same. 

Once you have recorded the details somewhere safe. You work to get the OM out of the way. I hear you when you say he has no family, PM avenrandom and ask for advice how to disclose the affair to his senior command. 

If he is on facebook message all his friend the exposure letter. You have to make it extremely unrewarding for th OM to remain in the picture.

If the keylogger reveals the affair in ongoing post again.

NB ,,,,Keep a journal
Please do look after your health and well being you will need the strength


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Do not believe your wife regarding a female friend, she is in lying mode.


No, I think she is telling the truth about that. 

It would make some sense. I have sent emails out to all of our closest friends about the situation, my feelings, and my goals... She can no longer call them and paint this "poor me" picture and tell them the lies and reality that she has created in her head about what has been going on... 

She is seeking out a new support structure that doesnt know the whole story or my side of the story and will support her need to be the "justifed / poor me / victim"... Furthermore the person she is NOW confiding in is a former girlfriend and 10+ year friend of the OM... She doesnt know me, she only knows what she's told.

I turned on the lights with all of our friends whom she had carefully built this very false picture with, She's wants to continue what she's doing or be given justification for her actions... Shes seeking approval for her decisions and will not get it from people who know the whole truth.

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, she could at any point reach out to any of our friends that care about her and would be happy to talk / support her and help her anyway they could but they all know the truth now... Suddenly she goes away from all of these people and develops a new bond with a person she had rarely spoken to for years and years... a person who happens to be friends with the OM ? SHe told me last night that this person told her and agreed that the relationship she is/was having with OM isn't anything that it's just a misunderstood friendship that shes mistaking for more, that he's just a really nice guy...


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> Suddenly she goes away from all of these people and develops a new bond with a person she had rarely spoken to for years and years... a person who happens to be friends with the OM ? SHe told me last night that this person told her and agreed that the relationship she is/was having with OM isn't anything that it's just a misunderstood friendship that shes mistaking for more, that he's just a really nice guy...


Contact the new friend and let her know the state of play, ensure that she understands that the evidence says otherwise, including that they have admitted the conversations were not platonic friend talk.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Plan A

Meeting your wife's emotional needs.
Your home must be a a place she wants to be in.
Consistent self improvement of yourself. No drinking at all. 
Stop love busting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, 
Be the man your wife fell in love with
Support the recovery of the marriage 
Be forgiving and understanding
Stop all selfish demands
Stop all disrespectful judgments
Stop all angry outbursts
Stop all annoying habits
Stop all dishonesty


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach~

Plan A is what we call "Carrot & Stick". You keep working on yourself by restarting Love Kindlers and ending Love Extinguishers, go to counseling for your issues if need be, etc. Get a life, do some 180, and be the guy you were meant to be. When you are clingy, needy and "love me" it's not an attitude that attracts...so that's the "carrot" part. And the "Stick" would be allowing her to experience the consequences of her choices. This would be if you're paying for internet at home (which is one way she contacts the OM), stop paying for it. Let her or her OM provide the way. If you're paying the cell phone bill for her phone--close your account. This is one way she contacts the OM and why should you finance her adultery? 

HOWEVER, whilst I personally think there's nothing wrong with Plan A/Carrot & Stick right now...I would suggest having this conversation with her: 

"<Wife> when we got married you made certain promises to me, one of which was to forsake all others for only me. I expect you to keep your promises, and as such I will only accept a partner in my life who gives 100% of her affection and loyalty to me. I've been patient. I've given you ever chance to do the right thing and fulfill the promise you made to me. After finding out today, I need to know if you will give me 100% of both your affection and loyalty ahead of all others, or if I should pack your things and call your mom to come pick you up, because I will not live with some of your affection going to some other man, nor live with this ongoing lying, hiding and deception. You're completely free to make any decision you like, and today you will be responsible for your choices. 'I don't know' will be taken as 'Pack my things because I'm not willing to honor my promise to you'."


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Plan A
> Meeting your wife' emotional needs.


Trying very hard. Can't be done when someone else is in the background meeting them and when she wont let me in.



Eli-Zor said:


> Your home must be a a place she wants to be in.


Again, trying very hard. But my home also represents reality. She wants nothing to do with reality. She doesn't want to deal with any responsibilty of her actions. She told me last night that she loved him because he was her escape from reality, her way of getting away, being somewhere else. I'm taking that away, she doesnt have that escape and she's ANGRY about it. No matter what I do, she does not want to deal with reality. 



Eli-Zor said:


> Consistent self improvement of yourself. No drinking at all.


Doing it religously. Havent had a drink for 1.5 years and will NOT have another, period. That page has turned. Gym = check. Church = check. Educating myself on being a good father, husband = check. 



Eli-Zor said:


> Stop love busting behaviors.


Trying. but we are not there yet. Everything is a love buster right now. Breathing seems to be a love buster. lol.



Eli-Zor said:


> Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language,


Trying. 



Eli-Zor said:


> Be the man your wife fell in love with


That's a bit tricky. She says the man she loved was a self centered, drunk. She says she doesnt know this version of me. So, no. I can never be that guy again, that guy has been gone for a longtime. This is the _real_ me, Its always been down there and parts of me now were there when she fell in love with me. Hopefully those pieces were the pieces she saw and fell for. I can no longer fill void she has to be the "caregiver"... So, if she needs that guy. He's gone.



Eli-Zor said:


> Support the recovery of the marriage


Absolutely, my actions are and have long been 1000% with that in mind.



Eli-Zor said:


> Be forgiving and understanding


Forgiving, How do you forgive someone that doesn't want to be forgiven? If that person just wants approval or to feel justified for what they have done are doing?

Understanding, Absolutely, my actions are and have long been 1000% with that in mind.




Eli-Zor said:


> Stop all selfish demands


Absolutely, my actions are with my family in mind. There is no selfish.



Eli-Zor said:


> Stop all disrespectful judgments


I'm trying to be understanding. She doesnt care about understanding.



Eli-Zor said:


> Stop all angry outbursts


Trying. Try being lied to day in and day out and disrespected continuously... I'd say my self restraint considering everything is well above what most could bear.



Eli-Zor said:


> Stop all annoying habits


Hard, when everything you do, regardless of what it is is annoying. WHen someone wants to hold onto thier anger, they will find a way.



Eli-Zor said:


> Stop all dishonesty


Absolutely. I'm as honest as I can be.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Note, I may say some things that might bring about emotional responses - I'm hoping you'll ignore the emotions and pay more attention to the meanings - I have no intention of being mean, but I do want to call attention to some things that might make this a LOT easier for you!

Your thread title is 'analysis paralysis' but I suspect it is more 'rationalization paralysis'. You offer excuses to pretty much every piece of advice given:

In all cases, you are predicating your actions upon an unnecessary (in fact, an _induced_) proposition: she has to approve of the things you do in order for you to do them.

as in... 



> ...No matter what I do, she does not want to deal with reality...


That is normal for a person in an affair (people call that 'the fog'). It passes. Ignore it.

Some examples:



> Again, trying very hard. But my home also represents reality. She wants nothing to do with reality. She doesn't want to deal with any responsibilty of her actions...


The advice given: "Your home must be a a place she wants to be in" is not dependent upon her current opinions. It is based upon the assumption that there is a type of home that is conducive to happiness and health, and that THIS is that to which you aim - whether she comes along for the ride or not.

The reason? Right now her thinking is heavily fogged, she is justifying her actions, rationalizing away any real concepts, in the attempt to make what she is doing appear to be correct, moral and necessary. 

When the advice is given: "...Meeting your wife' emotional needs...." you respond - 



> Trying very hard. Can't be done when someone else is in the background meeting them and when she wont let me in.


Again, your objection is predicated upon her responding, which makes the action of meeting her needs a form of manipulation. They most _certainly_ can be done. There is no exclusivity found in meeting someone's need for, say 'affection'. Pretty much ANYONE can be affectionate. _That doesn't matter!_ What matters is that YOU are one of the people in her life who DOES work to fill these needs. 

What is MUCH more important (at least in my opinion) is to end all Love Busters. It doesn't matter how many needs you are filling: if you are draining the bank, all you are doing is bailing a sinking ship with a tin cup - you have to concentrate on stopping up the leaks...

Hence the advice: "...Stop love busting behaviors...."

Your reply: 



> Trying. but we are not there yet. Everything is a love buster right now. Breathing seems to be a love buster. lol.


No, not everything is a love buster. A person lost in the fog may get irritated at how LOUD that foghorn is - but at the same time, it is saving their life. Her opinions (based upon justifications) do not negate the fact that you need to stop busting her love. Love Busting is doing things that contradict the definition of real love (doing that which is best for another person). In other words, love busters are the opposite of love, while doing things that may seem painful at the time, but are based upon doing the right thing - _are still love_ - regardless of how they are accepted.

Since her thinking is messed up, instead of relying on her twisted thoughts to determine your actions: prepare and do what is right - _regardless_ of her reactions!

As for falling for the man you once were:



> That's a bit tricky. She says the man she loved was a self centered, drunk. She says she doesnt know this version of me. So, no. I can never be that guy again, that guy has been gone for a longtime. This is the real me, Its always been down there and parts of me now were there when she fell in love with me. Hopefully those pieces were the pieces she saw and fell for. I can no longer fill void she has to be the "caregiver"... So, if she needs that guy. He's gone.


Again, you are allowing HER, in a foggy state of mind, to dictate reality! So did she REALLY fall for a drunken, stumbling, commode hugging, self centered guy? Ask yourself, really - which of those attributes attracted her most? Seriously? I doubt in the history of humankind that someone 'fell in love' with someone else because the got drunk and puked. My guess is that thy fell in love with some other aspect! For your wife - I'll bet it was something altogether else! I'll bet you were fun, adventurous, funny, witty, etc., etc. I'll bet THOSE were the things she fell for. 

When a person is in an affair, in the 'fog', their view of their spouse is predicated upon minimizing the good things about them, and maximizing the bad. (They also reverse that process about the new person!) Your wife is so deep in the fog that she can't has no idea which way is up, and while she is in this state, you ask her what she sees in you. Hmmm - what a surprise! It's not favorable! Go figure! 

YOU have to be the one thinking right now! Who did she fall in love with?



> Forgiving, How do you forgive someone that doesn't want to be forgiven? If that person just wants approval or to feel justified for what they have done are doing?


Forgiveness is what you grant - it's a decision you make. That's how anyone forgives. I wouldn't worry too much about that right now. 

viz - "...Stop all disrespectful judgments..."



> I'm trying to be understanding. She doesnt care about understanding.


That may well be - she may not care about understanding (although I do believe that is a basic human trait - _everyone_ wants to be understood). On the other hand, the fact that she is not favorable responding to the fact that you are working at ending this particular love buster does not negate the fact that _it is wrong to do in the first place_ and hence needs to be avoided - with regard to _everyone!_Incidentally, a disrespectful judgment is more involved than just 'being understanding' - is also involves not determining ahead of time what a person is saying, doing or thinking - is involves no inserting meanings to their actions or thoughts, etc...

Again, re: "...Stop all annoying habits..."



> Hard, when everything you do, regardless of what it is is annoying. Wen someone wants to hold onto thier anger, they will find a way.


This has nothing to do with the fog. It involves stopping actions that YOU KNOW are annoying (for example, procrastinating, or being wishy-washy, etc) How many times do people make claims in an argument, when they are angry - that do not reflect what they really mean when they are calm and happy? 

Keep that in mind in all transactions with your wife!



> She told me last night that she loved him because he was her escape from reality, her way of getting away, being somewhere else. I'm taking that away, she doesnt have that escape and she's ANGRY about it.


Keep in mind a couple of things: 

1) She doesn't 'love' him - she loves herself (she's the one all of this is aimed at pleasing!) Instead, she experiences positive emotions (fun, thrill, excitement, etc.) when she is around this guy. 

2) This kind of 'love' will end when it gets old. On the other hand, real, true love (that is, the commitment to doing what is best for someone else) is a permanent state of being that can only be achieved through _constant_ diligence and hard work. The reason nearly every marriage in the world today fails is because we've been taught that the real goal of life is to stay feeling great all the time, and if things get bad, to look somewhere else. In other words, to run when the going gets tough. Commitment to marriage is the exact opposite!

3) It is GOOD that she get angry about this: it means that things are not going the way she wants them, and she will have to make specific decisions about them. Hence the reason for doing a Plan A - to give her an option that is strong, healthy and wise - as a choice. It is designed to show what she has at home - and to demonstrate that while it is available, it is not permanent.​


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Pete,

Your response did not elicite an emotional response from me. At least the one I think you expected. The only reaction I have to your reply is sincere apprectiation.

I value nothing more than your flat faced candor. I am here for help, I didn't come here for sympathy and based on your reply I realized was feeling sorry for myself and your absolutely right on target, I was making excuses. I can't help my marriage and my family if I can't help myself to realize my own faults. 

Your reply is invaluable. Please never feel like you need to pull punches, I need to be slapped in the face sometimes to help me realize the excuses and rationalizations Im making to try and protect myself. This is a journey for me as well as her. I'm asking for help, I that involves looking at myself as much as anything else. 

Thank you most sincerly. Your statements are powerful, and my eyes and ears are wide open. 

Everything you said is dead on and deserves a lot of thought on my side. You have helped renew my strength and energy in this fight.

I will read your reply over and over when Im hurt and I catch myself playing the victim. 

Plan A. Full bore, not halfway, not guarded. 

Keep it coming.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

The last few responses Ive gotten from you guys have given me a much needed shot of strength...

Enough strength to bare the pain of actually researching and reading our phone records... 

I mentioned above that I had informed all of our closest friends of what was happening and the whole truth so she has turned away and started avoiding talking with them and now she's creating bonds with other people (some of which I dont know) and talking with all of them... 

Anyway this stunned me but I went back 5 months and actually counted 

this IS JUST CALLS/TXTS/Etc.. between my W and the OM

October:
Calls: 262 (NOT MINUTES!! CALLS!!)
TXT: 3000+
PicS/Multimedia: 17 pics 

September:
Calls: 173 
TXT: Thousands!
Pics: 13 pics

August:
Calls: 142
TXT: Thousands
Pics: 6 pics

July:
Calls: 149
TXT: Thousands
Pics: 16 pics

June:
Calls:120
TXT: Thousands
Pics: 12 pics

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How could I not see this sooner and more clearly!? 900+ Calls!!! 10,000 + Texts ?!?!?!?

I have to get him out of the picture. This addiction is WAY past what I thought it was. Anything I can do legally to seperate them? Restraining order, cease & desist? Can I file restraining orders on him on behalf of my son and myself??? I have to escalate this on his side... Im have no idea how to find his parents and have hit brick walls trying to find out who his commanding officer is....


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Be calm this is going to get worse.

You carry on with Plan A, it makes you a far better person and she will notice. 

You do not discuss separation. 

Q: What happened to the calls/texting since June? 

You have not completed the collection of evidence, where is she making these calls from, you must have the content of the text messages or voice conversations. Buy a VAR (voice activated recorder) . Hard cold evidence cannot be denied, even her family cannot deny it though they may continue to support her. 

Look at the detail of the texting and phone calls, the times specifically, if these are during work hours note them, 

A new exposure has to be broader than what you have done in the past and if she has spent company time taking to the OM her employer must be told, bide your time and do this right. 

As for any MC steer away from it until the affair is over. 

You must evidence your wife is either still in contact , gone deeper underground or there is no contact, each solicits a different response. 

Has the OM a facebook account, has your wife one. If you need support tracing his base commander call in a PI, a good PI should have a process to find this information.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Q: What happened to the calls/texting since June?
> 
> You have not completed the collection of evidence, where is she making these calls from, you must have the content of the text messages or voice conversations. Buy a VAR (voice activated recorder) . Hard cold evidence cannot be denied, even her family cannot deny it though they may continue to support her.


I listed them above starting with last month (oct) the last 5 months are shown. 

Access to the bills is now done. She changed the passwords.

Really, when it comes down to it do I need to do more digging & snooping? She has admitted the EA, and _I know_ what is going on. Ive told everyone I thought she cared about... Does there come a point where the more I dig, the less I love her? It destroys me to be so paranoid, and be sneaking around trying to get more "ammo"... Im just not this type of person, Ive never been the jealous, possesive and controlling type. Does there come a point when its just emotionally damaging (for me) to continue this? I dont have any interest in recording her conversations and hearing them... This "gotcha" thing just leads to more lies, and more deceit from her... 

None of this gathering of evidence helps me legally in regard to a potential divorce (no fault state)... and Im not going to chase down every person she bonds to and finds to talk to... I mean I could chase forever? 

As someone pointed out, every situation has its specific dynamics. The dynamic here and my gut tell me, Im not putting her job at risk. Im just not. I love my wife, Im just not going to do that. I would rather be without her than to hurt her like that. Is there a point when you have to decide that it's up to her? I don't feel right about that and dont want to "crush" her. She's obviously "sick", & clearly addicted. 

I don't know, I just feel like some of these things as far as exposure can be a fine line. I'm not going to involve her career. 

Clearly (from where I stand) I need to focus on getting pressure on the OM's side...

please attack or slap me in the face if im making excuses or justifying or anything else, really. Im listening. But, regardless of anger and hurt my gut wont let me do that right now.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Really, when it comes down to it do I need to do more digging & snooping? She has admitted the EA, and I know what is going on. Ive told everyone I thought she cared about... Does there come a point where the more I dig, the less I love her?


Once you have evidence that convinces YOU that an affair is ongoing, there is no need to gather more. I would suggest disclosing this problem with _one or two_ people whom your wife views as 'wise counsel' and will regard with respect. This may not be possible, but it is quite helpful. After that, exposure to anyone who is directly affected by the affair and the fallout from the affair. It seems to me you've done all of this, so the next step is what Eli-zor has proposed: Plan A (or 'Carrot & Stick') -so, you are right where you need to be. 

As for putting her job 'at risk' - this is only relevant if the affair is a work-related one - and an affair at work _itself_ is the cause of any risks faced: sexual harassment charges and retribution are what someone in this situation will face. 

BUT - keep this in mind: the end of an affair MUST result in a total, complete, and permanent state of NO CONTACT. The two partners must get away from each other. In the case of an affair involving 'work' - a consequence is the loss of the job- moving on to another one somewhere else.


----------



## i_feel_broken (Jul 5, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Forgiveness is what you grant - it's a decision you make. That's how anyone forgives. I wouldn't worry too much about that right now.


I agree with the logic in this statement but in reality I don't think it is humanly possible at this stage to forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven and isn't showing remorse. 

If someone was to punch you in the face and then tell you "I have done nothing wrong - you just have one of those faces" I don't think it is human nature to forgive that. However if that person were to apologise and acknowledge their wrong doing and promise to not repeat the action, you are more able to forgive.

I don't think you can decide to forgive someone by taking a decision, sure you can say "I forgive you" but although people say you shouldn't be lead by emotions etc etc I think you can only truly forgive when you FEEL you can forgive a person. If a person is not enabling you to feel forgiveness by showing remorse and respect then it's not going to happen.

Pit, I really hope you can turn this around and your wife starts to act differently. I can't lie to you - the battle you have ahead is a very very hard one and will take its toll on you. Just try to remember it is not your fault and you are not to blame and that nothing will progress if she continues to be in contact with OM.

Best Wishes


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

To some degree I politely disagree, i_feel_broken, and if you don't mind I'd like to explain my reasoning. 

When one spouse is unfaithful, and the Disloyal decides they do not want to face themselves and their own issues, they will frequently pursue divorce with a hard heart--even sometimes acting spitefully. So the divorce is finalized, and the Disloyal not only does not apologize for their affair, but they continue the charade of "happiness" even though police have to be called to their house, there are screaming matches that last all night, and neither the Disloyal or the OP has any money. A situation like this is happening on this forum to Help123!

In that instance the Disloyal is not acting remorseful and most definitely is not asking for forgiveness! They very stubbornly refuse to look at themselves or take any personal responsibility for their choices--shoot they usually even blame the Loyal Spouse! In that instance, should the Loyal--well single now but they *were* the loyal spouse--continue on in their life with lack of forgiveness, holding a grudge and living in animosity until the day that their former spouse is remorseful? I personally would not suggest that! 

If a person were to forgive in that kind of instance, there would not be remorse or respect, and the loyal would not "feel" like forgiving. Something else *HAS* to be the reason for desiring the forgiveness and being able to do it. So in that kind of instance what would be motivating and supporting the forgiveness? It's the Loyal Spouse's CHOICE..their DECISION... to no longer live a life of resentment and let go of their right for restitution. 

One of the best definitions of "forgiveness" that I know is actually Merriam-Webster: 

"a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult>
b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>"

The former Disloyal Spouse owes their former spouse for breaking the marriage covenant, breaking their promises, and breaking the family...and the Loyal is due both the remorse and the respect. But just like a financial debt that is owed and just can NEVER be repaid is sometimes "forgiven" this is a very similar concept. Let go of the right to be impose penalty on them that they deserve!

It is for the good of the LOYAL to forgive, whether the disloyal is remorseful or not. If you hold onto resentment and spite--if you cling to the right to seek retribution--it gradually decays your soul and eats you alive from the inside. On the other hand, if you release the person and allow them to experience the natural consequences of their choice, then you are free from that vitriol and can move on in life with an open heart. 

Soooo...I agree with Tanelorn that forgiveness is a decision that is made that basically says "I release you from this debt. I make the choice to no longer pursue payment." What both Eli-Zor and Tanelorn are telling Pit is to begin thinking about the damage it's doing to you to hold onto this...and begin making the decision to let it go and look at the present and future.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I do understand what has happened and much of why its happened.

If I ask myself honestly, I don't "forgive" her. It's not my place to forgive her, she has to forgive herself or seek forgiveness from whomever she answers to inside of herself. I'm not seeking payment. I understand who she is, and what has happened. I'm not harboring any anger at myself or her. I accept responsibilty for the things Ive done to contribute the problems that we have had and Im doing everything I can to insure that this never happens again. I forgive myself. 

If she ever feels that _she needs_ my forgiveness, and she seeks it for her own soul to heal. I will give it to her. I am not going to offer if she's not seeking it.


----------



## i_feel_broken (Jul 5, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> To some degree I politely disagree, i_feel_broken, and if you don't mind I'd like to explain my reasoning.
> 
> If a person were to forgive in that kind of instance, there would not be remorse or respect, and the loyal would not "feel" like forgiving. Something else *HAS* to be the reason for desiring the forgiveness and being able to do it. So in that kind of instance what would be motivating and supporting the forgiveness? It's the Loyal Spouse's CHOICE..their DECISION... to no longer live a life of resentment and let go of their right for restitution.
> 
> ...


I hope I am not hijacking the thread with this discussion, it is relevant I suppose. At this point in time we may have to just agree to disagree on this one AC/Tanelorn! I do hope I am wrong though as it would make it easier!

I agree with a lot of what you say about forgiving someone is a DECISION that can be made to no longer live a life of resentment and let go of their right for restitution. "If you hold onto resentment and spite--if you cling to the right to seek retribution--it gradually decays your soul and eats you alive from the inside". I hope this isn't going to be what is in store for me.

I am of course only talking from personal experience and I'm no expert. I'm 30 and have a lot to learn but in my view and in my situation that DECISION on forgiveness can only be truly meant and upheld if it is based on feeling. I could now decide to truly forgive my wife, i could make that decision right now but because of the way I feel it would be an empty offer of forgiveness. I wish I could find a way of overpowering my feelings, making myself feel differently but I can't. I think feelings are what make us human, it what makes us more advanced than other species and unfortunately we can't always feel the good things and feel what we wish to feel.

"If she ever feels that she needs my forgiveness, and she seeks it for her own soul to heal. I will give it to her. I am not going to offer if she's not seeking it."

Analysis - this is sort of my point about the DS enabling the LS to forgive is because they are in a position to show remorse and show love that can help heal the other emotions involved with being a DS. If DS was seeking forgiveness and showing that it would certainly make it easier to feel like forgiving, it may not be the only thing, maybe over time I might naturally feel more like forgiving.

I just don't think I can DECIDE to forgive without something inside of me - MY FEELINGS - changing. I don't know that my wife, after us separating, is now set to continue her affair/deceit/lies. How can I forgive when she is doing the very thing I am supposed to be forgiving her for? I would feel like a robot if i could shut out my feelings like that. She still continues to be in contact with OM through work and may always be. Maybe that will always remind me of the deceit and the hotels etc etc. I don't know only time will tell. Maybe when I get a new partner my feelings for my wife will diminish some what and I will be able to forgive as I am less bothered?

I think the comparison to a financial one is not on a parallel, financial debt doesn't often carry the same emotions/feelings.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I am just spent.

I just question what Im fighting so hard for? I've been fighting for this marriage/family alone for a longtime now. This pain is cripling. Everything is a mess of confusion. I find it harder and harder to be "in a good place" long enough to keep it up. 

She has everything justified, its all my fault. We had a talk about why we havent been talking the last few days... Mainly because I got frustrated _knowing_ that dispite what she says to me and to other people he is still there. 

I said "we arent talking because you dont want to lie to me anymore, and I dont want to ask you questions because I don't want to be lied too." That turned into 90 minutes of her venting about all of the terrible inconsiderate things Ive done to her, and what a horrible person I was to her. She even has me convinced that I was such a terrible person to her that who could blame her for doing this? 

This is all so far fuct that I cant even get my head around it sometimes.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> She even has me convinced that I was such a terrible person to her that who could blame her for doing this?


She has you convinced that cheating on you is necessary? Have you questioned your own thoughts on this? In what bizarre world is it that being unfaithful is the necessary action for any wrong action that may have happened in the past? Isn't that something like justifying theft because someone said something mean about you? How do the two relate?

Of COURSE she has everything 'justified' (actually, _rationalized_ is the proper term). That's what people call 'the fog'. And the only way to combat the fog is to pay no attention to it, and proceed with doing what is right regardless. 

Part of what is right is refusing to get into battles of wills or wits. You cannot win that one. If she was thinking correctly, yes, you might stand a chance of having your side heard. But not when most of her logic is based upon faulty propositions, intentionally chosen to 'prove' that she is right. Until the fog begins to dissipate, she'll just come up with new rationalizations to counter any facts you may throw her way.

In essence, you are trying to _will_ her and the rest of reality to go the way you want. The consequence of that has only one outcome: you feel bad. That's all. Instead of trying to magically manipulate reality through the force of your willpower (thereby causing endless frustration and fatigue) try changing how you are addressing the situation. (You wrote, "...I am just spent..." No kidding!) Give yourself a break!

This is what is normally called a 180 - do things in an entirely different way from what you've been doing. For example:

"...."we arent talking because you dont want to lie to me anymore, and I dont want to ask you questions because I don't want to be lied too..."​
This is combative language. It invites retorts, is accusative, and makes assumptions that verge on (or actually are) Disrespectful Judgments.

It is entirely natural for your wife to resort to "...90 minutes of her venting about all of the terrible inconsiderate things Ive done to her..." This is just another brick in the wall. She is already deep in a foggy way of thinking, and you were discussing a controversial subject. Right there, she is at a high stress level - she _will not_ react rationally. 

Next time she brings this up, go a totally different route. ONLY give your side of the issue: "...I am very hurt about what is going on and I'm having a hard time finding a way to talk about it with you. That makes it hard for me to talkl about it. I would love to, though. Maybe we can figure out a way to talk without fighting..."

It is entirely possible to talk without fighting, since fighting is deliberate. You have to decide which things to say, and how to say them. If you feel a fight coming on - or believe that you may start saying hurtful things, tell her that - tell her you want to take a break because you don't want to hurt her, and you don't want to fight...and then LEAVE THE ROOM for a few minutes.

This is a learning process: it is a breaking of old habits. And what is worse: she is not on board: she most likely does NOT have a group of people such as those of us on this forum who can give you tips, advice, and support, as well as wise counsel. She is alone in the confusion - possibly with the exception of some other people who are equally foggy. 

In other words - you have to manage your relationship, because she isn't going to right now. And this is FAR less exhausting that continually _willing_ other people to do what you expect them to do. The only person you have to _will_ to do things is...you. 

And here's another secret: there is very little hope for your marriage (or any other you may end up with in the future) until you DO get good at managing yourself...



> I just question what Im fighting so hard for? I've been fighting for this marriage/family alone for a longtime now


I believe what you are fighting for is your marriage, but I could be wrong. I do know this, however: while it is net an easy thing to do, and can be quite painful to face, fighting for your marriage _in the correct way_ is a successful endeavor - even if, ironically, your marriage does not survive. Sometimes they do not. The key is this:

The fight itself will make you a stronger, wiser, more thoughtful, intelligent and capable person. If this is not happening, then you are fighting the wrong battle - instead of trying to save your marriage, most likely, you are trying to overpower your wife into doing what YOU want (being with you), hoping, perhaps that after she 'submits' and crawls back (you WIN!), that you can then get friendly and fix things. I hope that you can make some deductions from all this....


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> "...."we arent talking because you dont want to lie to me anymore, and I dont want to ask you questions because I don't want to be lied too..."​
> This is combative language. It invites retorts, is accusative, and makes assumptions that verge on (or actually are) Disrespectful Judgments.


That's something that Im having trouble with... A ton of trouble. 

It's partially the truth, Well with any conversation of substance it's entirely the truth... 

When we discuss anything regarding the situation (OM, our relationship, the affair, etc...) Everything is predicated on lies. When she tells me anything about the affair, the OM, etc... it's all lies, half truths and dishonesty. She looks me straight in the eyes and lies right to my face. Its hard for me to ask questions which will be met with more lies, and Im sure that she doesn't want to lie to me so she doesnt voluntarily try to initiate conversations. I've read that the last thing a WS wants to discuss is their marriage. Plus doesn't this "plan A" (which Im trying) calls for no relationship talk?. I have so much pent up inside me that I want to talk with my wife about, but this person Im talking to is not my wife. It's very frustrating and it builds up, all of these things seem to coming venting out through "combative language or disrespectful judgements". 



Tanelornpete said:


> Next time she brings this up.........


When she brings up the things Ive done to contribute to this situation, Im trying to just listen and let her get some of it out (which I read I should be doing. sitting quietly and letting her talk/vent, I thought I read somewhere that is part of the healing process for her). I am trying my best to accept responsibilty for the environment I created... How can I try to avoid these conversations or walk away from them and still be holding up my end of the responsibilty?


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> When we discuss anything regarding the situation (OM, our relationship, the affair, etc...) It's a lies. Everything is predicated on lies. When she tells me anything about the affair, the OM, etc... it's all lies. She looks me straight in the eyes and lies right to my face. Its hard for me to ask questions which will be met with more lies, and Im sure that she doesn't want to lie to me so she doesnt voluntarily try to initiate conversations.


I doubt seriously it is _all_ lies. The trouble is finding the kernels of truth buried in the mountain of rationalizations. But even if it is, there is a _reason_ for the lies. People do not do it (normally) just because they know how to lie. Moreover, that form of conversation is best dealt with via the 'reverse babble method' - which we'll be glad to teach you, once you get to a point where you calm down enough to quit relying on your emotions. You're getting there- it just takes some time. Right now, the best thing you can do is _calm yourself_. 



> I've read that the last thing a WS wants to discuss is their marriage. Then doesn't this "plan A" which calls for no relationship talk?.


Not sure what your question is there.... "...doesn't this 'plan a'...." ... what?



> When she brings up the things Ive done to contribute to this situation, Im trying to just listen and let her get some of it out (which I read I should be doing. sitting quietly and letting her talk/vent, I thought I read somewhere that is part of the healing process for her).


Do you mean 'reflective listening'? If so, then yes, this is a healthy and also useful tool....



> I am trying my best to accept responsibilty for the environment I created...


Amend that! An environment you HELPED create. She is also part of the marriage and bears responsibility as well. And your job is to correct only your errors. Don't take ANY responsibility for her part! While it may not be the best time to point this out, it is also certainly time for her to experience the consequences of her part. That's the 'Stick' part of 'Carrot & Stick.'



> How can I try to avoid these conversations or walk away from them and still be holding up my end of the responsibilty?


I don't see any reason to avoid the conversations. What you need to avoid is REACTING negatively. Note that I say 'reacting'. I say NOTHING about experiencing emotions during these conversations. That is to be expected and is normal. You have no choice but to experience emotions. The trouble is in using those as a guide for how you must then act. Yes, you may grow angry at something she says. The trouble starts when you decide you must therefore act on that anger. 

The key is this: when you start feeling anger, or irritation, etc., then go into a doubly alert mode: at that point there is danger, and you have to be extra careful to act rationally. And that may mean asking for a pause in the conversation so that you can 'regroup'. Back out, take time to reassess, calm down, etc. And if she refuses to stop, STILL maintain that you want to wait until you are calmer.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It sound like the conversation is over regarding this mess being your fault, I imagine the discusion is one big circle of "why are you doing this to me" and "I'm doing this to because"...... over and over again, but with different wording. So hold up your end of the responsablity by changing your behavior and be a better you for your self. your wife will either get it or not, so if she doesn't get it are you going to change back to your old self? I think not you are going to take your changes and find some one that will appreciate those changes. I do hope that your wife notices the changes in your actions towards your own life and comes along for the ride with a changed man. do these changes for your self not her. (right know she could care aless)

Simply enough, actions speak louder then words. Bottom line,our wife can choose to see the change or not. And one more tid bit, talk is cheap. If any one knows that a betrayed spouse does.

Good luck in finding what changes you need for your self so as to get throught this crap. Stop talking and show your wife your better now, so the only thing you want to discuss is what will make you a better person and your wife is not helping. Right know your marriage is not making you a better person so distance your self from it, at least for now. I mean.... I can see if there was some progress, but man she is still not 100% commited.

Last tidbit; your beating a dead horse.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

the guy said:


> Last tidbit; your beating a dead horse.


Im not sure how to interpret that, I suspect your just trying to help open my eyes and give me perspective. If so, I appreciate it.

I'm not stopping as far as my improvement of myself. I am doing everything I can in that regard. Church, Gym, Being a good father, friend, re-establishing relationships with family members, etc... I have ZERO doubt that I will walk away from this a better man. 

I just have trouble coping with all of this at times. The waves/roller coasters are brutal. At times I feel crazy and overwelmed. So, I come here to talk/vent/clear my head/get perspective. It's a difficult situation which is compounded by the fact that I live inside my own head, and I can't turn off my brain. I'm trying everything I can to distance myself from the emotional ties I have to the outcome of this process, and wanting to 'solve' this. I know that if I could just do my part and let the cards fall where they will and be fine with that this would be a much easier process. Its a blessing and a curse that my brain doesn't stop. 

Im am trying to calm down & step back and I do for brief periods of time. Keeping myself in that frame of mind is the challenge, I am getting better at it but its still a constant fight inside of me. 

I know.... B-r-e-a-t-h-e. 

Thank all of you sincerly for your support and your comments. They are helping. Even if it doesn't show sometimes. The title of this thread is not "coping"... I am coping now. Maybe not that well yet, but I'm working on it. I see progress, I feel progress, if only inside myself..


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes I hope that your eyes are open, open enough to see what you can take or leave behind from this forum. It has helped me see all the differant perspective. Some folks can connect and other are just giving there perspective. 


I can relate to fighting for something or someone that loves you, and I can relate to picking another battle. For each of use we want to win the war. The war of happiness, not getting hurt any more. Losing one battle doesn't mean we have to lose that war. Don't let this person continue to hurt you, let go of the love and move on. I know, easier said then done, but there are better battles to fight.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

so update...

Well for the last week or so, Ive been alot calmer. At least in the pit of my stomach... my overwelming urgency has subsided enough to deal with much of what is happening...

So, for the last week or so Ive continued on my personal journey. I continue to go to the gym, church, etc.. and continue (with less frequency) to speak to the people in my "support group" including family and friends... I have begun to get some peace in my own head.

During this time, I have been "plan A"... actively participating in all family functions, spending 100% of my time at home, being calm and helpful with everything, watching my tones, etc... She has been less angry, and slightly less distant though we haven't had any conversations about the "state of affairs". While I still get the feeling OM is still in the background, I have had no evidence that they are talking (cell).

Then today...

I hit redial on my home phone to find out the last number she dialed (last 24 hours) was him.

I drew a clear line in the sand a few weeks ago that I would not tolerate her disrespecting our marriage by contacting him. (for me the consequence of her crossing that line, (which unfortuneately I expected) was mass exposure)

As I mentioned in earlier in the thread, I had exposed the affair to a very select group of our closest friends. They have tried to speak with her and are available to support her regardless of what decisions she chooses to make... She has withdrawn from them (saying I put her in a shameful position with them and shes uncomfortable) and she has surrounded herself with a different group of friends. WHom she says know nothing about the affair, etc..

Well this morning I was all set to blast a MUCH larger radius with the exposure letter (facebook friends, his family, co-workers, etc) she had crossed the line in the sand. I spoke with her via phone and told her I knew she had crossed that line and I would not be disrespected, I cant be expected to live like this... 

I hadn't followed through yet when we spoke again. She told me she thought about what I said and that I was smothering her and maybe we should seperate she needed space and doesn't know what to do. She says she just wants to be happy and shes tired of faking it... She understands I am not going anywhere and that if she needs "space" she has my blessing to take it, anywhere she wants but I am not giving her that space she is taking it. Somewhere else. She's upset that I refuse to make it easy on her, she doesnt want to go to her parents house and doesnt have a friend to stay with... She also doesn't want to move my son, but doesnt want to be away from him by leaving him with me... 

So, I suggested that she go and visit my sister for a few days out of state. (she and my sister are very good, very close friends and my sister is very impartial as far as the situation). Right now it seems that is what is about to happen... 

I had/have my finger on the trigger of this extended exposure letter and dont know if I should send it to the list of people I mentioned or I should just let the cards fall where they may...


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Let it go?


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Well this morning I was all set to blast a MUCH larger radius with the exposure letter (facebook friends, his family, co-workers, etc) she had crossed the line in the sand. I spoke with her via phone and told her I knew she had crossed that line and I would not be disrespected, I cant be expected to live like this...


Well, let's review. The point of doing exposure is NOT to gossip, humiliate, or take vengeance. The point is to inform people who are likely to be impacted if a divorce does happen (such as her family, your family, pastor, life-long friends, your employer, her employer, siblings and the like). You are exposing to these people for two reasons: a) their lives are about to be damaged because of her choices. Grandparents will lose time with their grandkids; employers *may* be at-risk to a sexual harassment claim--and if it's a workplace romance company resources may be used to carry it on; you might be taking extra time off to go to your lawyer and go to court, etc. and b)she is very likely to go to them with her own reason such as "he was abusive and kicked me out!" (conveniently forgetting the AFFAIR part...) so you want to be sure that those who will be affected know the full truth in a factual manner, not the partial truth of a disloyal spouse. 

The larger aim is so that the truth is shone on the adultery and it's not "kept a secret." When it is a secret, the disloyal kind of counts on your own embarrassment to help them keep the affair going by keeping it hidden. If you tell the truth and tell others the truth, you are not "dragging their name through the mud"--their own choices and actions are doing that. If they were being loving and faithful and you told the truth (exactly the same thing) you would not be dragging their name through the mud, would you? So the larger aim is to put the affair right out in the open. Often, like roaches, this will send the affairees scurrying for the dark and may break the affair because it's no longer "fun" if everyone knows they are willing to lie and cheat. 

Sooooo...considering ALL THAT, do you think that doing the wider exposure to all the FB friends and his family and all those other people will have that kind of effect? Are you informing people who will be impacted by the affair .... or are you creating gossip and acting out of vengeance? Do you want to expose as a way to stomp out the affair or to hurt her back? 

I suspect that further exposure may be appropriate--but probably not to SUCH a huge group, but I will leave that for you to decide.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Are you informing people who will be impacted by the affair .... or are you creating gossip and acting out of vengeance? Do you want to expose as a way to stomp out the affair or to hurt her back?


I do not want to hurt her, I never wanted to hurt her. That's the last thing I want. I don't want vengence, retribution and I don't want her to choose to work on the marriage because she is being influenced or coerced by the opinions of other people. That's the exact reason I choose to only inform a very very small group of our closest friends intially. I had hoped that would be enough and it would help *snap* her out of this fog long enough to see what was really happening.

When I mentioned a larger group to expose the affair to, primarily I was talking about his family and friends. More to the point, the facebook friends they have in common. I'm not sure exactly how many they share but I noticed that the OM's Mother and at least one of his brothers were on my wife's friend list. Since I have never gone there much and both my W and the OM are very active on that site, + the OM was a long time friend and has run in the same circles as myself and my W, I think they may have a rather large group of shared facebook friends.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Affaircare, Thank you for the feedback. I sent you a private message with a request.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do not dither, if the OM's family is on your list let them know, take a copy of the friends and family details onto word etc in the event you are locked out. When sending from facebook wait a minute or so between each message otherwise it will block you for a couple of hours.

Pick a few mutual friends to mail as well, those that you think will support your marriage particularly if they are in turn married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you need to follow through. You are not hurting her she is hurting her self. She choose to make that call, and (if I'm correct) she knew the consequences. I believe you know this will continue if you don't expose this affair. If you don't, there is a good chance that once you give her a foot, she will take a mile. My $0.02


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I sent PM's requesting some feedback on the exposure letter I wrote...

I am too close to the situation to judge what I have written and if it suits my goal of exposing the whole truth while trying not to hurt my wife anymore than needed...

Im not comfortable posting it here, it is very detailed and comes right from my heart... maybe to much? I would like to have impartial opinions.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit

If your wife leaves home your children stay with , she abandons the family and the love therein. Provide no financial support, she pays half the bills, no exceptions. if she continues to see the OM you get ready for Plan B set a time how long you can survive in Plan A . Plan A is very hard on the BS and your wife will be a cake eater during this time.

Make sure your wife knows you are going to fight for your marriage and you will never allow your children to be with the OM, check your options if necessary to obtain a restraining order against him.

You are not likely to stop them talking however you can make her experience the consequences of the affair and look at you as the better man. This is a long road be prepared for it, never trust what your wife and the OM say they are so deep in the Affair they are not going to stop until it bursts in on itself.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Here's some fun to add.

I sent the exposure letter to a wider range of people including the OM's family.

He's obviously livid that they found out. He went as far as to call my W and threaten my life. 

What to do there?.


----------



## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Inform the police that you've been threatened
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> He's obviously livid that they found out. He went as far as to call my W and threaten my life.


Excellent. And, yes, inform the police he threatened you. Either that, or notify him that you request he stay away from your family (thereby establishing grounds for a restraining order).


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Big amo in you aresonel, call the police and report it. Get this on record. 

How did the DW feel about the threat, any cocern for her families safety?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Indeed. How is your wife reacting ?


----------



## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Here's some fun to add.
> 
> I sent the exposure letter to a wider range of people including the OM's family.
> 
> ...




Yes, Thank You, you did good pit. Now we can get the ball rolling. She will have to face the world now. I hope that you will tell everybody, and I mean, her family, his family, all friends etc... Get some proof to keep with you at all times. People might come up to you and ask. Make sure that you practice what you will say if they call you. What you would like them to do to help. Make a notebook to know were everybody stands as this starts to get going. Also very important, make sure you have cookies for her. If she starts to scream at you, offer her one. Ha Ha Ha

:rofl:


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Indeed. How is your wife reacting ?


She's not. 

She called me crying about these threats and her fear for my safety because he is a "trained killer", she asked me to stop. I told her in no uncertain terms, I will not stop. period. This is MY family, I am not backing down. I did not do this, and she is the only person who has the power to make this stop. She said that she wanted to talk when I got home. From what I could gather from her tone of voice, it was to restate her wish for the marriage to end. 

She called me an hour later after talking to OM again and said she overreacted. I asked again, Did he or did he not threaten my life? She backtracked and said "he was just mad", "He calmed down and said he wasn't going to do anything". She had told me during the intial conversation that he was "in town". After the second conversation, she said he wasn't. That ended up as a fairly heated exchange as I still have no idea if she is telling me the truth about anything. I told her that this wasn't lying and hiding things from me about her affair, these lies could put me and my family in danger. This person is threating my life. Further backtracking "he's not threating you"... 

I get home last night expecting "a talk". Nothing. No talks, nothing. I waited and even brought it up. She just said "there's nothing to worry about, I told you". She didn't seem to want to talk about it at all. Pushing the conversation didn't seem to be the right thing to do as she didn't want to talk and I could tell the person I would be pushing into this conversation would not be "my wife", I would be in another no win, no progress talk with the "evil twin".

I didn't get to finish sending the wider exposure, just got it out to the OM's mother and brother, and 2 more of my wife's closer friends that she keeps away from me. I have no idea if either of the last 2 got my message. I suspect they didn't. I didn't have time to finish sending, my efforts were interupted by "death threats" which my wife now says didn't happen.

Guess I have work to finish. Admittedly, uneasy about this completely unstable persons threatened retaliation which my wife would not corroborate to the authorities and fighting off thoughts of "is this really worth it?" am I really fighting this hard for a women who does not love me, and has shown zero fight for her family and marriage. She has buried herself so deep down in all this bullspit, I wonder if my wife is in there anywhere. I have seen flashes of her during this process which gives my hope, but I just don't know...


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

In your next set of exposure mails slip a sentence in that that your wife mentioned to you that he threatened to harm you, it is the truth so don't hold back.

Something like:



> Not only am I am working to save my marriage but XXXX (your wifes name) as well, XXX (your wifes name) advised me that "OM's name" has called her and has been making threats to "my life".


The logic here is those who you expose this to will read that he has indeed got violent tendencies and all you have said is what she told you.

Resend it to her friends, if you have her co-workers details send it to them as they can be classified as friends.

Stay on track with the exposure, can you send this to the HR person you spoke to in her company.?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Got this email from OM just now.

_
Your wife and I are friends, we will always be friends accept it! She has told me she no longer wants to be married to you. It doesn't matter if she has contact with me or not. Your marriage is over you need to accept that to. For you to say we are having an affair so you can mask the fact that you were a bad husband for most of your marriage is pretty small of you. Yes I have feelings for your wife and yes she is my best friend. For you to lie and say I am sleeping with your wife which in turns makes it a true affair (to my family I might add). I have never slept with your wife so in turn I have never had a physical affair. If you want to twist it and make it an emotional affair so be it. 

You are hurting your family more by trying to resolve something you will not be able to fix. Keep mentally abusing your wife so she just sticks around out of fear and it will just turn out all bad for you. You have a chance to do the right thing and accept your marriage is over. Be the father you need to be and never lose sight that he is yours and always will be. Just because your marriage is over doesn't mean you will lose everything, just your wife. 

You think if I am gone out of your wifes life your marriage will blossom. It won't, it has failed and there is nothing that you or I can do to change that. I have had limited contact with your wife these past few months...a lot less then you think but it is all good believe what you need to believe to get through the night. I am confident with me out of here life it will make your situation a lot worse then it is. If you want me completely out of her life you write me back and say it. 

It won't matter what your wife wants I will leave her alone but I am telling you right now it will be temporary until you get divorce papers served to you. Then I will continue our friendship( no matter if there is more feelings then friendship or not). You can use me as the reason your marriage failed all you want but you and I both know it was your attempt at being a husband that did that. Soon you will see the truth because you can't blame me anymore. 
_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do not answer!!!!

I have seen this kind of mail before and he is reacting to your exposure and is covering his arse.



> It won't matter what your wife wants* I** will leave her alone* but I am telling you right now it will be temporary until you get divorce papers served to you.


Your exposure is working..

Do not agree to a divorce from your wife not even a trial separation, lets see if he does leave your wife alone. Plan A her to the hilt.Did he copy your wife in on the mail or can you see if he forwarded it to her email account.

No matter what he says everyone will know he is in an affair with your wife, carry on exposing to her friends you have more than enough evidence to confirm that there was an affair. So ignore him , you are hurting his reputation.

How far have you got with the exposure and did you add the extra line in?

Have you kept the records of the months of contact and is your wife aware of how much info you have on her and the OM.? 

I would like to have a counter ready to his argument that he says he has had limited contact with your wife and is not in an affair 



> I have had limited contact with your wife these past few months


The counter is not to him but for his family, this is what is hurting him, if your wife leaves, you may need to forward the evidence to a select few in his family to unbalance his lies.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You have a chance to do the right thing and accept your marriage is over. Be the father you need to be and never lose sight that he is yours and always will be. Just because your marriage is over doesn't mean you will lose everything, just your wife.
> 
> [/i]


This jerk is giving you advice on fatherhood embedded in his lies about the affair?

Classic!

No response necessary, he's whistling out his bum.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Contrary to what you may think his mail regardless of the content is good news for you. Assume he has copied that mail to a number of persons. Hence my request for information to counter him .

Is there an update on your wife's status?

Think and act Plan A , Christmas is here, be the most amazing husband, get this right as it is a job for life in a marriage.

In a calm conversation make sure your wife knows you will not accept a divorce, the children stay with you and you are willing to share the evidence of the affair with family and friends, do not elaborate what evidence you have, mention you will subpoena OM to court as a primary witness and cause of the affair. Do not bully her or sound threatening just calm, factual same tone throughout , smile a lot, keep eye contact and always say you love her. 

As he has mentioned divorce in his mail I suspect they are plotting.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Yep - this is standard horse pucky. Stay with what you are doing, pay no attention to this guy - in fact, I'd repeat myself here: request that he refrain from contacting you and your family. This sets up the foundation for a restraining order. 

And then ignore him. 

You are doing fine.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hell, that is got to be one hell of a strain on the affair. Toosha, good job. And the whole concern you have about a "trained killer" he's most likely military, which is good he has some restrant;-). I don't think hes gang or mob orientaded, they can't type so well;-)

@TP,
Why shouldn't he respond with a "yes leave my wife alone, she is still married to me, and this is our business, thank you" ?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit:

Do not respond ...if there is a response required it can wait. 

The letter has told you a couple of things,



> the fact that you were a bad husband for most of your marriage is pretty small of you


Your wife is bad mouthing you to the OM, standard in an affair



> Yes I have feelings for your wife


Admission, this is not a friendship 



> If you want to twist it and make it an emotional affair so be it.


He is in an affair and he knows it. 



> You are hurting your family more by trying to resolve something you will not be able to fix.


Interesting, he and your wife are planning something or have discussed a plan 


> You have a chance to do the right thing and accept your marriage is over


Same as previously 



> Just because your marriage is over doesn't mean you will lose everything, just your wife.


Same as above



> I have had limited contact with your wife these past few months


You have evidence of previous contact and communications 



> If you want me completely out of her life you write me back and say it.
> 
> now it will be temporary until you get divorce papers served to you
> 
> Then I will continue our friendship( no matter if there is more feelings then friendship or not)


He asks you to tell him to go out of her life then he states you will be served and he will be back in her life and the friendship is more than a friendship 


Summary is, I think your wife may be planning on getting divorce papers served, so be prepared and have that conversation. 

DO NOT reveal you have had the mail from him. I suspect she will already know.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Summary is, I think your wife may be planning on getting divorce papers served, so be prepared and have that conversation.


I shouldn't ask if that is her plan? 

and the conversation I should be prepared for, how do I handle that? As I have read in other threads, just tell her thats not what I want?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> I shouldn't ask if that is her plan?


Avoid asking her if she is divorcing you, though his mail indicates she may be thinking of it or has filed. 




> and the conversation I should be prepared for, how do I handle that? As I have read in other threads, just tell her thats not what I want?


Create a script

Emphasize you love her, you have made mistakes in the marriage and will change. Don't delve into the mistakes listen if she elaborates. 

You forgive her adultery and both of you will make the marriage a better marriage where you both fulfill each other needs and the family benefits. 

She in turn must commit to a full permanent no contact with the OM, send him a mail confirming no contact. 

Full transparency

and a commitment to rebuild the marriage 

She may have words to decline this, stay on course no arguing , say hear me out. 

You let her know her know you will be calling a councilor that you both must talk to , I suggest either S Harley from Marriage builders or Affaircare. 

You must have the impartial guidance to take you forward - use those words. 

If she insists and talks separation you you paint a bleak picture , you will fight every step of the way, you will oppose any divorce, your child stays with you, you will subpoena OM to court as the primary affair man , parents will get involved, you will show the evidence etc. the net outcome you will get is the counseling, you request it is mandated. Make it very bleak, 

Push for the counseling there is a good chance once you start the MB programme you can switch to someone more local ,

Gain gauge her reaction to the exposure, if you made it broad and deep her parents friends and family will all know. She should hear soon.

Where are you based i.e Country if the US what state? You need to check the divorce laws , just in case


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Your wife and I are friends, *we will always be friends accept it!* She has told me she no longer wants to be married to you. It doesn't matter if she has contact with me or not. Your marriage is over you need to accept that to. For you to say we are having an affair so you can mask the fact that you were a bad husband for most of your marriage is pretty small of you. *Yes I have feelings for your wife and yes she is my best friend.* For you to lie and say I am sleeping with your wife which in turns makes it a true affair (to my family I might add). I have never slept with your wife so in turn I have never had a physical affair. If you want to twist it and make it an emotional affair so be it.
> 
> You are hurting your family more by trying to resolve something you will not be able to fix.* Keep mentally abusing your wife so she just sticks around out of fear and it will just turn out all bad for you.* You have a chance to do the right thing and accept your marriage is over. Be the father you need to be and never lose sight that he is yours and always will be. Just because your marriage is over *doesn't mean you will lose everything, just your wife. *
> 
> ...


Based on this email and the previous threat of violence I would go immediately and file a restraining order against this guy tomorrow if you can. There is plenty of evidence to indicate he is stalking your wife, has threatened to continue stalking, and threatened violence against you. 

At this point he doesn't seem to realize (or understand) that YOU are her husband and have both legal and moral ties to her...not him! Now you can print any past email or letter he sent that indicates he IS interfering with your wife, print any email or letter you've previously sent him asking him to stay away from your wife, and then print this email with the portions above that I highlighted: 

_"..we will always be friends accept it!"_ This is a threat to continue even though you have requested that he stop. 

_"Yes I have feelings for your wife and yes she is my best friend. Keep mentally abusing your wife so she just sticks around out of fear and it will just turn out all bad for you."_
Here he admits interfering where he is not wanted, he tries to scare you with words like "abuse" and "fear", and then he directly threatens you in writing: "...it will just turn out all bad for you." 

_"I am confident with me out of her life it will make your situation a lot worse then it is.."_ Here again is a veiled threat that if he is not interfering in your wife's life that your situation will be a lot worse! 

_"...it will be temporary until you get divorce papers served to you. Then I will continue our friendship (no matter if there is more feelings then friendship or not)..."_ Here he indicates that he is specifically plotting to break up your marriage, that he INTENDS to continue this interference and will not stop, and that he will continue no matter what. That is a clear and direct threat, in writing. 

Finally, on 12/21 at 12:22pm, you wrote here "He went as far as to call my W and threaten my life" Later, on 12/22 at 9:00am you wrote here "She (your wife) called me crying about these threats and her fear for my safety because he is a 'trained killer', she asked me to stop" and "She called me an hour later after talking to OM again and said she overreacted. I asked again, Did he or did he not threaten my life? She backtracked and said 'he was just mad', 'He calmed down* and said he wasn't going to do anything*'..." That means that at one point when he was not calm that he said he WAS going to do something! 

If you have to...go to this thread, click on the #89 (permalink) and #95 (permalink) links in the top, right corner of those posts, and it opens JUST that post. Then you can screen print those, open Paint and paste it, and save those as a *.jpg and print those as evidence for court. 

You have proof of his stalking, proof you've asked him to stop, proof that he threatened you with physical violence, and proof that he does not intend to stop stalking. I would STRONGLY recommend a restraining order. This would protect you, your children and your family from this guy coming within X-hundred feet of you, your home, your work, or contacting you via email, phone or any other method. Then if he contacts your wife, you can go to the court and throw his heiney in jail for contempt of the restraining order. 

And yeah--your wife is likely to be PI$$ED but your job is to end this affair and protect your family from this guy!


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Got this email from OM just now.
> 
> _
> Your wife and I are friends, we will always be friends accept it! She has told me she no longer wants to be married to you. It doesn't matter if she has contact with me or not. Your marriage is over you need to accept that to. For you to say we are having an affair so you can mask the fact that you were a bad husband for most of your marriage is pretty small of you. Yes I have feelings for your wife and yes she is my best friend. For you to lie and say I am sleeping with your wife which in turns makes it a true affair (to my family I might add). I have never slept with your wife so in turn I have never had a physical affair. If you want to twist it and make it an emotional affair so be it.
> ...



Based on those words and others I've read in your thread I think you have a narcissist on your hands. It is very unfortunate but if that is the case I would not underestimate him and I would take his threats very seriously.

Bob


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The proposed option from Affaircare is sound, take legal advise soonish, see if you can get the restraining order against him to stop him coming near you or your son. 

Do not debate this as a delay loses any impact when requesting the order.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Been a stressful couple of days...

After the last message I posted, I got another email from OM, stating (again) that he would stay away.. (until)... He also stated that I would find out that it _wasn't him_ that was doing this.

As far as the restraining order, there was more than one point that I thought that was exactly what I was going to do. Being at home the last few days and dealing with Xmas for my son, family activities, etc... its been hectic and I did not follow through yet.. The truth of the matter is not only that I have been overwelmed with the holidays, I have also been emotionally overwelmed and handling much of this stress is easier in segments. I had intended on dealing with today...

Then some of the picture became more clear and more cloudy at the same time.

So, Christmas eve... My W comes to me and tells me she can't deal with this drama, and the stress of the situation and she thinks it's best for her to cancel her facebook account. Which by the way is a HUGE thing. Aside from the fact that it is and was one of the primary means of communication with OM, she also _lives_ on that thing. It is a huge part of the "alternate reality" that she has been living in this whole time. I was more than a little suprised that she was following through with steping away from it.

About 30 minutes after she disables her account and shows me she did. She started acting strange. I could see and sense a nervous panic about her. So she tells me she is going to get gas before we go to church... Takes her 40 minutes to go 2 minutes away. So obviously she went to call the OM. 

On the way home from church after my head was right, I calmly asked her if that was what she did. She was honest and told me that she did call him. Her end of our conversation was filled with the "i'm sorry", "I couldn't help it" "I'm trying to let go"... After I sat quietly for awhile, I felt something inside me let go... a calm resignation. I essentially said "Ok, Go to him". "I can't do this anymore". It was probably stupid for me to offer that, or suggest it. But, I was tired, and felt beat. She didn't go, we had other family functions to attend that night. So even if she wanted to take me up on my offer, She couldn't. 

Christmas day, we had a nice enough day with our son and all the christmas activities. 

That evening, she went to her uncles house with my son for awhile. When she came back home I felt something not right again. I knew that she had called him. I wasn't going to get angry or frustrated. I just told her I was leaving. She called me a few minutes later asking where and why I was leaving. I told the truth. I knew what was going on and I couldn't do it anymore. I was not going to get angry I just had to leave. That conversation turned into a 45 minute talk. The gist being, I am not going to play this sick game anymore. I love my family but I'm not doing this anymore. I also told her that I realized that it wasn't him at all. He was trying to back away, she was the one pursueing. This whole time I had a picture in my head that it was him. It wasn't, it was her. She wouldn't let him back off. Which she admitted. She is the one initiating all of these recent conversations with him. Her end was her showing some remorse for who she had become and recognizing this was sick and hating herself. I didnt come home, I spent the next 3-4 hours alone having "me" time.

Yesterday, she text me and says me she wants to tell me something. She tells me she contacted OM again and that she told him please dont answer her calls or texts. That she needs to figure out what is going on with her life, her marriage, & her family. We spoke for a longtime, she was very honest with me about quite a few things that she had been lying about prior to this. Seemed like she was my wife, the women I knew, no sense of the "evil twin" during most of these talks. It was actually nice to be able to talk and be honest and have at least some sense that she was being honest in return. She also mentioned that she and my best friends wife have talked and they have gotten my wife enrolled in theraphy at the church. It's a marriage related therapy group. She also started taking perscribed anti-depresants in the last 3-4 days. 

So, here I am. Questioning how much to escalate the OM side with the retraining order knowing now that she has been the one calling him and resisting any space from him. Also realizing that she has been telling him what he needs to hear to keep him close. I tend to think that includes painting a picture where I am somehow scaring her or something.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> So, here I am. Questioning how much to escalate the OM side with the retraining order knowing now that she has been the one calling him and resisting any space from him. Also realizing that she has been telling him what he needs to hear to keep him close. I tend to think that includes painting a picture where I am somehow scaring her or something.



Leave the OM for now - no more communication between you and him . Your starting base is whatever your wife or he says will be a lie. 

As for the restraining order I say if you can get one get one. After all he did threaten you via your wife and he is equally to blame for the affair. Get one to cover your children as well as it will protect them from him . 

If your wife is serious 

The first step for her is to write a no contact letter , she must want to do this willingly , she writes you read she sends in your presence , a second hand written one to be posted to his house as well. 

You need full transparency, she must agree not to go out and be on her own, her every movement must be disclosed to you, she must again want to do this, 

As for church therapy, I would say she should go however a far more tactical and pragmatic approach is for her to enter a programme of recovery either through the affaircare site or Marriage Builders. 

Use the articles from the affaircare site and work through them with your wife. 

Articles

Do not let your guard down and do not let up.

Keep control of yourself, and bite size chunks is the right way for you to deal with this. Keep Plan A' ing her.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

and look after yourself, go to the doctor for meds if you have to . You are going through hell and you need to be physically and mentally well for the journey.

BTW you did well, you set the boundaries


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Yesterday, she text me and says me she wants to tell me something. She tells me she contacted OM again and that she told him please dont answer her calls or texts. That she needs to figure out what is going on with her life, her marriage, & her family.


The above is part what I wrote yesterday in regard to the conversation we had Sunday night.

So yesterday, She doesnt answer her phone when I called from work. She initialy lies to me about where she was. Then admits that she met OM in some parking lot somewhere to say "goodbye". (again). 

Tried not to talk to her much later about the situation, I knew I was talking to a addict that just had a "fix" so it would be fairly useless to try to reason with her. We did end up talking, as excepted unproductive talk though. I did print out and show her one of the affaircare articles about  Basic concepts, How affairs start, what the DS & OM think, etc.. to show her that everything she is saying and doing is textbook (which it is alarmingly "on script"). She agreed that it sounded like what she felt and sounded like what's happening so it "could be", but "what if it's not?". 

Anyway, those circular conversations and the deep fog reasoning started again, so I let it go. She was (again) adimant that she will not talk with him again. Yesterday was it. (again). So, I'm at work today. So, who knows what she's doing.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit

Thanks for the update .

If she sees the OM again today then I suggest you start getting ready for Plan B, I only suggest this as you are gradually being worn down. Set a date to start. , it could be some weeks away or months it is up to you. Plan B requires a letter of which I can refer you to some examples.

If you think you can carry on Plan A ing her then do so , the only way this stops is if she wants it to stop and at this moment she does not. She will help herself immensely if she hand writes the NC letter and you post it to him.

Your wife is at least telling you so she could be some weeks away from stopping all contact. All I ask you to do is prepare yourself for the worst then there are no surprises. 

Start preparing for a life without her and get legal opinion on keeping your child, that restraining order becomes ever more important to keep the OM away from your family. Plan for the future and think of yourself and your child only, your wife will have to choose to be on the marriage bus or not. 

If she turns around and comes back to the marriage then great and there is always chance she will. 

The OM is very active in this have no doubt he is playing his part. 

I suggest a second exposure mail shot to the OM's family to rock his little world, He was not happy with the first set. I have some words if you require them.

Pit be strong, you have nothing to lose by sending out the second mail.


**********added*******

I found the words, this have been used elsewhere in a similar situation.


> As you are already aware OM and my wife, "her name", have been involved in an adulterous affair. My wife has acknowledged the affair to myself, her family as well as church members and has committed to rebuild our marriage however OM has continued contact with my wife and is intentionally and purposefully attempting to destroy our family and marriage.
> 
> Please do contact OM and ask him to cease having contact with my wife


.

Contact his family following the same process as before. I am aware you say your wife is the one chasing him however he can say NO and he is NOT thus he is playing her and you. 

The note above serves two purposes , it confirms to his family that he is in an affair and you have asked him to cease. He cannot misunderstand or deny that he has been asked to cease contact. Rock his boat some OM are more stubborn than others. 


The other option is to get her to send the NC letter then you have legal recourse to him . I would do both send the message and the NC letter.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit

You must have confidence in what you have done to date.

Your first exposure letter had the required reaction and indirectly has caused your wife to act in some positive ways. The OM made major love-buster points by threatening you, this is on her mind, you are still the man she loves even though she cannot see it clearly. 

I think your wife is still telling the OM lies and has not told him she is working on the marriage nor that there is to be no contact. Hence the no contact letter that you have not seen or read. 

The second letter I am asking you to send is going to burst that bubble. It will tell the OM she has admitted the affair to a broader group of people, including her family. His parents and family will read those words, she is acknowledging her adultery. It will also state that the ongoing contact is him causing the marriage problems thus pointing the finger directly at him, he cannot move. 

He will undoubtedly call her and she will lie, followed by some harsh words from him no doubt. The advantage you have you are telling the truth the family and church friend can attest to that. Your message is to drive a wedge between your wife and the OM using her lies as the tool.

If she hand writes and signs the NC letter tonight you post it with her tomorrow recorded mail then there is no need for the mail if not send the message . Copy the NC letter in case there is a denial later on.

Carry on with Plan A , the good parts of you must be in her mind and cause her mental conflict. Tell her you love her and she can lean on you but she must cease contact to help both of you.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you for the guidance. The paperwork has been gathered to move forward with the restraining order.

I have also prepared a second letter.

I was curious if anyone felt it prudent to send a text/email to OM prior to my next course of action. Obviously I have doubts... 

don't bother? just move forward with the aggressive escalation?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> was curious if anyone felt it prudent to send a text/email to OM prior to my next course of action. Obviously I have doubts...


NO, keep him in the dark this is to your advantage 

Do not contact him again unless your wife sends him the nc letter. 

You do not defend the lies of your wife. The mail implies to much and gives him the goal of you separating. The more lies she told the better as when it all comes into the open it will unravel . 

The original suggestion of a second facebook message to his family still stands 

Do you want some more sample words.

Did your wife meet with the OM yesterday ?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Do you want some more sample words.?


Whatever you have is always useful. PM me if you have something you feel may be useful. Thank you!



Eli-Zor said:


> Did your wife meet with the OM yesterday ?


No, She claims that the last meeting was closure (again). While I'm not sure how much truth is in anything she says, Im fairly certain that she did not. The "withdrawl" signs were ferocious yesterday. She screamed at me, called me names, insulted me, told me I was smothering her and felt I was watching her every step, reverted to the "we were just friends" script, Told me she would not be told who she could be friends with and would hang out with anyone she wanted. etc, etc, etc.... 

This is the second time (when he claimed he was going away last time, he went away for 3-4 days) that I have had to go through this "living with a monster" detox. If not for the support and education I have gained here, I'm certain I would not have been able to handle this second one so well. By well, I just mean that I would not allow her to bait me into fighting with her. She tried everything possible. I guess I don't have to tell anyone that's been through this what it's like. Amazing would be a huge understatement. My wife is quiet, kind, and the least aggressive person I've ever met in my life. This person is... well I don't know I don't even have words for it.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

New years eve, she contacted him again. She simply can not control herself and is convinced it's because she does not want to. 

After I asked her how she could possibly have so little respect for her husband, her marriage and our home by contacting him again just 3 days after swearing she that was the end of their contact (again) and that she would not call or contact him.. her response was "what do you want me to do?"... I said "Stop commiting adultry, stop hurting me, stop calling him".. Her response. "That's not going to happen".


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> New years eve, she contacted him again. She simply can not control herself and is convinced it's because she does not want to.


That is most likely (I'd even say it's 100% truthful). She DOESN'T want to. That's an honest statement. She can control herself, but she won't because she doesn't want to. 



> I said "Stop commiting adultry, stop hurting me, stop calling him".. Her response. "That's not going to happen".


So, what is your plan of action when a boundary like this is trampled? Are you willing to simply sit back and let this go on, or are you willing to establish a boundary in which your home is not disrupted by this sort of behavior? My advice: 

You: "Why did you contact him again, after promising you would not?"

Her: "What do you want me to do?"

You: "I would like you to be faithful to your husband..."

Her: "Not gonna happen..."

You: I will only remain in a marriage with a spouse who is faithful. I would love for you to be with me, but that is your choice. However, I will not support adultery in my home, so if you wish to keep on cheating, you'll have to move out tonight."

Pack her stuff, move her out and she is then free to cheat.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Fog talk, the no contact is hurting her, please do sentd that note to the OM's family and one to hers. The OM must be made to be uncomfortable and his family very aware of his doings. Do involve her friends and family you are drip dripping the exposure, this has to go far and wide to make them very uncomfortable. 

Once the above is complete you can move on to the next step

Give us a date when you are ready for Plan B but please complete the exposure the OM and your wife will gaslight you if you do not get the truth out. Yes pack her bags and your child stays with you.

Pit I know I am harping on this part, it is important for you to close this step properly. You then continue with Plan A to the day you decide to go to Plan B. In your case Plan B may be within the next few days , weeks or months, it is very dependent if you can handle the emotional roller coaster you are on. Plan B requires planning and a letter, give it some thought. In the interim, fill her love bank, reading your posts it looks like there is to much friction at play in your household, be calm and let her see the best of you even if she will not admit she will notice the changes. It is necessary for you to do this before a Plan B as she must long for you once you go into this phase

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Your absolutely right.

I really thought that the extent I had done the exposure was enough to be effective. It worked a little no doubt, but things have effectively regressed back to square 1.

While this is a dangerous situation for many reasons, I am going to be forced to push the envelope. 

I have been "A" through this whole situation with only brief moments of frustration and conflict with her... Mostly I have been solid and supportive (all things considered). I have been working on me non stop. (taking better care to look good, go to the gym, church, etc) She's noticing. she has said "you look skinny" which at the time she made it sound derogitory but I didn't take it wrong. A week later she says "you really are getting thinner, you look good". Last night she says "You look bigger" I said I thought I looked skinnier? "No, I mean more muscular".. 

Anyway. Because Plan B is inevitable and I will be putting a date to it very soon... Question is, Can someone actually do that effectively while living under the same roof? Because Ive been legally advised under no circumstance to leave our home, moving out for space is not possible. Because we own the home together and have a small child, I can't "kick her out" and she will not leave voluntarily. How would that work?


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

#1) Complete the papers for the restraining order. Clearly despite your requests the OM is not leaving you alone, so ask the court enforce that for you. 

#2) You do not go to your cheating spouse and politely ask, "Would you like to move out dear?" Their answer would be "of course not!" What they WANT is for you to disappear so the OM can seamlessly slip into your spot! So what you say is: "Do you intend to end all contact with the OM tonight and never ever contact him again, prove to me that you're being transparent just as I'm willing to be transparent with you, and commit to doing the work you need to do on yourself and us in order to honor your marriage vow...starting tonight? Or shall I pack your things and call your parents to come pick you up so you can continue to commit adultery? Either way, I will no longer tolerate infidelity in this house any longer and it ends tonight. If you say 'I don't know' or 'I need time' I'll pack your things and call your parents so you can take all the time you want."

Naturally you can not FORCE her to leave, but part of the allure of an affair is that it is a secret--so if you pack her things and call her parents to come get her, they will not tie her up and drag her away. The idea here is that you make a stand for your marriage and let her have a clear idea that choosing to continue to commit adultery will COST HER. The cost of committing adultery is that she doesn't have the cushy home, she has to look for an apartment and either she or OM will have to pay the downpayment and the bills...and the children DO NOT move out with her! They stay at home, in their home, the marital home. 

Marriage = cushy house, bills cared for by you, kids
Affair = have to pack, move, pay downpymt and bill, NO KIDS

Get it?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I filed the paperwork at the courthouse for the restraining order today. 

I also spoke with his direct supervisor in the military. He showed serious concern and referred me his commanding officer at headquarters.

I am finished fu**ing around, I've tried so hard to be a nice guy and gone out of my way to handle this quietly. It's not working, and Im SICK of being the victim.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Pit, 

I would like to point out that although the OM is not innocent in all this, that it is your wife who is reaching out and doing the contacting and "can not help herself." Now of course, we know that she *can*...she just doesn't want to and chooses not to! 

However, the reason I'm writing this is because I would like you to envision something. Suppose I said to you that effective today, you have no contact with your wife. No Contact means no talks, no phone calls, no email, no texts...NOTHING. You completely go contact black out. Have that vision in your head a little? Now you tell me--would that be easy for you? Would you CONSTANTLY have some little thing come up and without even meaning to, think to yourself: "Oh I have to tell wife <XYZ>"? Would you CONSTANTLY have the urge or temptation just to call her and see how she is, or shoot her email or text? And if you really wanted to discipline yourself to have true No Contact with her, you'd have to resist that urge over and over and over all day long...the urge to just "touch base" real quick. Right? Because your life is entwined with hers. You have home together, bills together, friends together, life together, kids together, interests together...and stuff comes up all day long that reminds you "Oh I need to tell wife!" 

This is close to what you are asking your wife to do with OM. She has built her life around him--work together, friends together, fun together, interests together--and on top of that, he gives her the -love zing- of amphetamine brain chemistry (read more about the Chemistry of Love). So not only does she have little reminders and urges to contact OM...she also is fighting a very real amphetamine withdrawal that's chemical! 

Sooooo...now you can see why, when the disloyal says they are willing to go to No Contact, I almost always STRONGLY URGE people to take the time to get away. I don't care if you don't have vacation time...make this happen! Go to that hotel you've always wanted to stay at, and have fun for four days together. Take her to that cabin in the mountains for a long weekend. The idea is to change the environment where "the affair" happened (get away from work & home), to be with her as much as possible to help her get past the urge/withdrawal, to enjoy each other without pressure for romance or sex--this should be just fun hanging out together like best friends, and to demonstrate that you are there for her and she's important and you are someone who CARES.

In real life, she may have a desire to stop the amphetamine she's addicted too, but she's weak in resisting it. So be the hero, get her away from the "drug" and that environment, help her get past those 3 or 4 days, be there for her and show her that you are not the "all evil monster" she's painted you as in her head, but rather someone who cares about her enough to get her through something she's having trouble doing by herself.


----------



## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I also spoke with his direct supervisor in the military. He showed serious concern and referred me his commanding officer at headquarters.


I am very happy to hear you took this route (posted about it back on Nov 27th). Like I said then however, it's possible that those you contact may really not care, and you are lucky to find one that seems to be concerned about it. Again, the same rule applies. The supervisor deals with him on a daily basis, so it is a bit more personal. As you go up the ranks, the people you contact will be less and less involved with this individual, and feel less inclined to listen to you, or give you the desired support. "His commanding Officer at headquarters" does baffle me a little, as jumping this many ranks in the chain feels a bit out of place, but I'm sure this is just a wording issue. I certainly hope that the trend of support from those you contact continues.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I want this in writing... I have several friends and family members that I have allowed to read this thread so that they knew what was going on with me and my marriage...

I dropped "the bomb"

He would not desist, she would not break it off... 

I did everything humanly possible to get them to stop this affair, even if it was just until we were officially divorced if thats where this was leading...

I offered her the opportunity to "just leave", that if thats what she wanted. Start a life with him. She said she doesn’t want to do that. She doesn't to leave. but she didn't want to break things off.

As I mentioned, I had filed a retraining order a week ago. I didn't update that it was denied because I had to establish "repeat violence" and he had not yet done anything physically. But the paperwork was filed.

So, I contacted his commanding officer. I told him everything. I told him I just wanted this person to leave my family alone. He had promised he would, and broke his promise multiple times. He had threatened me, was willfully and aggresively manipulating my wife...

His commanding officer was very receptive, and showed genuine concern. I emailed him all of the documentation that he requested. His commanding officer informed me he was calling him in and issueing a military restrainging order on him. That he would be informed that he was not to come near me, my wife or my son.

a few minutes later OM calls me from MY WIFE'S PHONE!! and threatens me for calling his commanding officer! I immediately called his SGT. MJR back and told him he did this, that he was terrorizing me!! 

I called my wife a half hour later and asked "How could you let your boyfriend call your husband from your phone and threatened me!!" 

She told me she didn't, she is not with him. He somehow has access to or the technology to call using another number. I do believe her. She said he has done it before, called and another number appears on the caller ID. I only beleive her because she is at work, (verified) and unless he was there (can't be, she works at a school). My wife told me (again) today she is done, she is not talking to him anymore... So maybe she tried/is trying to break it off with him, I don't know.

So anyway... Aside from everything I have posted in this thread already... There's the update. 

Dropped bomb, psycho unstable OM is terrorizing me from wife's phone number... commanding officer is issueing a military restraining order against him... but he transfered here (had been out of state/country) to be close to my W and pursue affair with her further... so he's close enough to do something stupid but "fogged" W still says "oh he won't do anything".

I'm genuinely concerned for my family's safety now.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do not be intimidated by him, buy a recording device and record future calls , confirm with his CO what the process the military want you to follow should he continue threatening you. Are you able to verify your wife is not in contact with him? Has the home life improved?

Are you still running plan A? 

Stay on course, do not be afraid of him, he is a bully stand up for your family , make sure your wife knows you will not tolerate the OM in your families life, do not be shy to say you will protect your marriage and child. Be calm your voice must be steady and not quaver . Your wife will notice, she will see you doing what is right and knows in her heart the OM is bad news and controlling.

Be strong and breathe easy. I know this sounds easy to say as I am not there , do not fear him, look the devil in the eye , you have everything to gain by standing firm in words and deeds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> ... As I mentioned, I had filed a retraining order a week ago. I didn't update that it was denied because I had to establish "repeat violence" and he had not yet done anything physically. But the paperwork was filed.


I think the fact that he threatened you that first day through your wife, that he called you directly and threatened you personally, that the military is putting an RO on him, and that he purposefully moved to be near you...would constitute repeat violence. 



> I'm genuinely concerned for my family's safety now.


I am too. Go back to court and try for an RO again.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Are you able to verify your wife is not in contact with him? Has the home life improved?
> 
> Are you still running plan A?


No, home life hasn't improved. 

Yes, I have continued to work on me. 

Between the last 2 updates, things had not improved at all. actually the opposite. W and OM were continuing the A. OM was ratcheting up the pressure on her to file. She had outright refused to stop commiting adultry and end contact with him. I told ger all I wanted her to do was stop disrespecting me, my son, our marriage and our home and end contact with him while we were married. she said "That's not going to happen" "I'm going to keep talking with him anytime I want to". 

The bomb was dropped yesterday, no way to know what the aftermath will be.

She acted completely unfazed last night. Not crying, not upset, nothing. She did say at one point "You win" I will stop talking to him and asked me if I was going to keep holding this over her head and would do the same thing with any man she chooses to be with (including him) if we ended up getting a divorce.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your answer is simple , you love her and will do what needs to be done to protect your family and marriage including forgiveness. She is deep in the fog anything you say is like water off a duck. Stay on Plan A and keep on track. One item you can say to her is that you will never accept the OM in your life or your childs and as he has a history of threats of violence you will use all legal means to protect your child, if that means she has limited contact with your child due to her being with the OM than so be it. While a lot of what of what I say here may not be legally possible it gives her a clear message the OM is never welcome. 

You mentioned divorce, has she filed? If not your standard answer is I am working to make our marriage better, or change the topic. If she has filed fight it tooth and nail.

Stay on course if the OM is pressurising her something has to pop. You have a huge advantage, your child stays with you if she leaves, she has to be stressing, she has not left and as the OM is still pressing her he cannot be filling her love bank. Speak firmly, behave as if you can and will survive without her , bond with your child , cause her to see the best in you and the family. She will subconciously see this, do not be a doormat. She must see a man who loves her and is standing up for what is right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Stay on course if the OM is pressurising her something has to pop. You have a huge advantage, your child stays with you if she leaves, she has to be stressing, she has not left and as the OM is still pressing her he cannot be filling her love bank. Speak firmly, behave as if you can and will survive without her , bond with your child , cause her to see the best in you and the family. She will subconciously see this, do not be a doormat. She must see a man who loves her and is standing up for what is right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't think the OM can pressure her much more now. I spoke with the commanding officer again this morning. They did issue a military protective order against him. He is not permitted to contact me, my W or our child. The order is indefinite. The order includes through a 3rd person, text, email, etc. 

If he's smart he will back off and I get to go through the hell of my wife's third bout of "withdraw". Which I am not looking forward to. The first 2 withdraw stages I endured before she broke down and contacted him, or he contacted her again were unreal. Nothing short of dealing with someone that is possesed by some sort of demon. Pure hate, anger, venom, etc,etc.. 

As far as the things you have suggested, I am doing them all and will continue. I am being strong for my family, I am not wavering.

She has not filed to my knowledge. I suspect she is thinking about it, maybe she has? I don't know. She has surrounded herself with a "support group" of all the wrong people (dark side), Im certain they are filling her head with all kinds of crap, scheming, planning, etc.. So, Im sure wheels are turning and things are moving in the background. Her thoughts are so far fogged, and shes reinforcing those thoughts with support from the "Dark Side". So hard to tell what happens from here. I can only control myself, and I am. They rest is in god's hands. If I need to take action, or Im forced to take it I will. Until that happens, Im just praying for more strength to keep fighting.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The restraining order helps , if i recall it is your wife who has been chasing him. Best you can do now is run a 180 and a Plan A , the 180 will help you keep your sanity the plan A is to win her over. Keep an eye on her as you cannot leave this as it is, to rebuild the marriage both of you should find a good pro marriage councillor , Do this only once you are certain they are no longer in contact or gone deep underground.

Stay on track this is a tough journey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Go back to court and try for an RO again.


I will. OM's commanding officer said that I would have a signed copy of the military protection order mailed to me by next week. I will take that and all the additional information back and re-apply.

I text W this morning and I told her "for better or worse, I still love you."

Her reply "Then why are you making my life so difficult?"


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She is in the fog ignore her and push on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I will. OM's commanding officer said that I would have a signed copy of the military protection order mailed to me by next week. I will take that and all the additional information back and re-apply.
> 
> I text W this morning and I told her "for better or worse, I still love you."
> 
> Her reply "Then why are you making my life so difficult?"


 "Because you are currently an addict and it's my responsibility to save you from yourself."

Who else knows? Her parents, siblings, friends?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I can't remember. Have you cut her off financially? Cancelled her phone so she has to get her own? Turned off the internet at home if she uses that to contact him? Pushed her outside the door if she contacts him on her phone in YOUR house? Anything like that?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Who else knows? Her parents, siblings, friends?


Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Parents blame me. No way their little girl could have ever done such a thing, must be my fault. They say maybe it's best we just move on. Do not take responsibilty, blame someone else, sweep it under the carpet quickly. Move on. 

Sibling same. 

Friends most of our _real friends_ have tried to help and make her understand what she's doing and that it is wrong. She avoids them, Plays "poor me" card, and shuts out everything they say except the tiny pieces of what they say that she wants to hear. 

Surrounds herself largely with the "dark side" people (OM friends/sympathizers, or LS haters) who don't know everything or they know and think it's all my fault. 



turnera said:


> Have you cut her off financially? Cancelled her phone so she has to get her own? Turned off the internet at home if she uses that to contact him? Pushed her outside the door if she contacts him on her phone in YOUR house?


Has her own job, own phone, etc.. we own the home together, can't kick her out. (not legal). I can't leave either (abondonment, I would legally screw myself)


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit be patient , if nc is indeed in place your wife will go through withdrawal , you are going to be on the end of her bad behaviours and if she starts recovering she will see your as a pillar of strength. Hang on there , look after your health and stay on track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Pit be patient , if nc is indeed in place your wife will go through withdrawal , you are going to be on the end of her bad behaviours and if she starts recovering she will see your as a pillar of strength. Hang on there , look after your health and stay on track.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

please tell me about rev babble talk or more about how to handle this withdraw attacks... She is ANGRY and attacking me ruthless full blown already.. (again) cant imagine what a im dealing with... She just ran off to her parents probably to try to reach him without record of the call... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I realize people are all for saving a marriage and if it can be saved, then that is great. These guidelines that people talk about do not work in all cases. I am truly sorry that you are going through this, I mean that. You're wife is not in a fog, she is just being mean. She wants you to be her stand by guy. I think for your own sanity and for the sake of your child, you would be better off without her. Why on Earth would you want to stay married to a woman who has so little regard for you , herself and your child? There are other women in the world and you deserve a chance at happiness just as much as anyone else.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

1) I realize that her parents "blame you' because all they've heard is her side of it, in which she paints you as the "bad guy" and the OM as the "white knight." Also, some parents choose to allow their children to do wrong rather than having to do the tough thing and confront their child. Soooo...you may want to let them know she's coming and that there is a protective order, that if she has contact with the OM and evidence of the contact is found that she could be in legal trouble and so could OM. If they choose to ignore it and let her...that's their choice but at least they were informed! 

2) Reverse Babble. Most/A lot/Much of what comes out of the mouth of a disloyal spouse is fog talk/babble with the express intent of justifying their affair and continuing bad choices. Babble is usually re-writing history (I've been absolutely MISERABLE for YEARS!) and can include bullying, defaming, trivializing, harassing, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, insulting, countering, diverting, lying, berating, taunting, putting down, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling, and raging. Usually I recommend two ways of dealing with Babble: 

A) Treat it like you would any verbal abuse. "I'm sorry but I'm not willing to be spoken to with disrespect and rage. Please come see me when you have control of your emotions" and then walk away. I see NO POINT in putting up with it whatsoever! Name it, ask them to stop--now--or go to another room (preferably one with a door and a lock). 

B) Agree with their babble and turn it around on them. Some examples: 

DS: "Why are you making my life so difficult?"
LS: "I agree. You're married to me not him, so why are you making our marriage so difficult with your affair?"

DS: "I'm going to keep talking to him any time I want! You're not my boss!"
LS: "You're right you are going to continue to make personal choices, and the choices you make have costs. Like if you talk to him any time you want, the cost is jail for him and ruining his career." 

DS: "I need my own space! "
LS: "Yes you do. When do you plan to move out?"

DS: "Fine go get a divorce! I don't love you anymore and I don't want to be married to you."
LS: "I agree. I don't find the way you're acting very loving either. Go get a divorce. "

DS: "I can't trust you! You ruined my life!"
LS: "Yes I agree. I can't trust you and you sure DID ruin our life together."

DS: "He's just a friend!"
LS: "Yes and with friends like that who help you destroy your marriage, who needs enemies!"

DS: "I never want to live with you again!"
LS: "I agree--I wouldn't want to live with you right now either." or "I can see why you wouldn't want to live with caring people."

DS: "I just do not think I can do this anymore. As much as it hurts me as well, I can't live like this." 
LS: "I agree. I can't be treated like this anymore. As much as I love you I can't live like this."​
If you have some specifics she has said that you'd like me to Reverse Babble for you, just post them and I'll do my best. And Pit...for the most part these are the screams of an addict. She's an "amphetamine" addict and you just took away her fix. You tell me, what does an addict do to the one who takes their drug away? Keep your main focus on that image and on not taking it personally, and that will help.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Most of the completely ruthless attacking happened on Friday... 

Because I've already been through it a couple times, I expected it and most of the venom she was spitting at me I was able to ignore or dismiss... 

Affaircare, All of the things you mention 



Affaircare said:


> (I've been absolutely MISERABLE for YEARS!) and can include bullying, defaming, trivializing, harassing, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, insulting, countering, diverting, lying, berating, taunting, putting down, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling, and raging.


essentially she did and has done all of them. If one of them didn't work or she didnt get a rise out of me, she would quickly jump to another, and then another... all the way through the list.

The part I'm stuck on and can't seem to shake...

She did all of this in front of my little boy. I asked her to stop, told her "not in front of our son", but she wouldn't stop. 

With my 3 year old on her lap, she called me every name in the book, taunted me, threatened me, and said (more) incredibly hurtful things...

I can't seem to shake that. Multiple times later this weekend, When I approached him he ran to her screaming "no mommy, no!" and hugged her leg acting like he was scared of me or something.

To date she absolutely refuses to accept any responsibility for the impact this has already had on our child (he is very smart, and the impact is showing BIGTIME in his behavior) she ignores it and refuses to believe her affair and behavior is causing damage that may be impossible to fix. (I have been reading books, and had her order some DVD's on child behavior so I can try to deal with how this is impacting him) She insists he doesn't know anything, when she has accepted (has to! his behavior CAN NOT be ignored) that this is affecting him she blames me for that too.. saying if I would have just "walked away" and left them, He would be ok. I'm forcing him to deal with his mommy being unhappy because I wont go away.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't understand why you didn't take your son and leave?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> I don't understand why you didn't take your son and leave?


Shock. I didn't process it fast enough.

It escalated to venomous, malicous ranting like a tornado. The whole tirade lasted 10 minutes. At first I tried my best to deflect and defuse the situation.. I didn't see her going where she went with it so quickly and I really didn't think she would do that or say the things she did in front of our child... 

In retrospect, I wish I would have just taken my son and walked away from the bomb before it exploded. She had never done this before (in front of our child) By the time I realized what she was saying and was able to process what was happening and that he heard it, it had already happened.

Now I can't shake it. I should have done something. I should have protected him from that.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She is taunting you and is mimicking the bad behaviour of the OM. Get yourself a voice recording device carry it on you at all times. If you can get a cam recorder ever better as she is trying hard to bait you. 

If she starts again have it ready and let her know you are recording her. 

You must do this asap so she cannot lie to others about you and the family life. 

Whatever you do do not lose your temper or say anything you will regret later on. Keep calm, do not enter a fight, do the 180 on her, I have a feeling you have not quite got it right and she is seeking the buttons to make you react. 

Start reading books at night time to your son, play with him he must start looking to you for protection not his mother. At this stage it appears he sees you as threatening, change that so he see you as his protector and father. 

I strongly suggest you prepare for a separation, get a lawyer and cover your rights, you must cover every legal avenue in case this gets even worse. 

For you and your son's protection you may have to go to Plan B sooner than you want to. Whatever happens do not leave the house. 


Be firm and strong, softly spoken, non threatening, smile , be pleasant , babble back if she shouts talk about the weather. Her anger and addiction will be her downfall, your patience, good behaviour and clear thinking will be your strength.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I just realized my wife unfriended me on f*cebook. lol.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She is lashing out, if you think she is continuing to use facebook to communicate with the OM then block it on the router or edit the hosts file and point facebook to a local address.Do not tolerate the affair being conducted in your house.

It reads like your wife is going to be very angry for a long time and will lash out at you at every opportunity. With her family supporting her this is going to be a long haul.

Plan A , do the 180 and smile, even if you do not feel like smiling.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

wife sent me a facebook friend request this morning. said she deleted me out of anger, and accept it if I wanted to. Said she is angry for what I did.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good! That means what you did is having an effect. You WANT it to.

Are you still living together? Did you expose? Are they still seeing each other? I don't have time to read 10 pages.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She knows what she is doing is wrong, have you seen the copy of the military restraining order?

Plug away and stay on course
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Are you still living together? Did you expose? Are they still seeing each other? I don't have time to read 10 pages.


Yes, we live together. 

Exposed a longtime ago (6 weeks ago), Didnt stop them. This most recent "exposure" was to the US military (his employer).

I couldn't tell you if they are still talking. He has a military protection order against him. He is not supposed to contact anyone in my family. I doubt that stops them though. 

I suspect communication has become much less frequent, but they are finding a way. I sense that he is not "truly" gone. He is probably just manipulating the situation. 

Hard to tell what happens in the fantasy land they live in. It's mind boggling. While I'm being forced to deal with them/this reality, Im trying to keep my head out of fogland as best possible. It's a crazy, creepy place. Funny, he actually convinced her that I am harrassing him and that the protection order the military put on him is to protect HIM from ME. 

Only so much I can do, I can't force her to get her head out of her a$$ and Im done being consumed by this. She can do whatever she wants to do, I'm going to continue doing the best I can for myself and my son.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit you have to set a date for Plan B, eventually your wifes behaviour is going to wear you down. Set a timescale to work to. The critical component for you now is to work on yourself and create a closeness with your son that your wife can't oppose or undo. While she and the OM are in contact you will never move forward however as we can in most cases forecast what is going to happen we can help guide you through the steps.

Today you plan A her, you get legal council to understand what your position is , bring up the restraining order and threats to your life and son, the lawyer must be a shark. I am not saying you are to separate,, I am saying be prepared and spare no one when it comes to it. Your objective is if it comes to a separation to legally have your son and block the OM erin being near him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Pit you have to set a date for Plan B, eventually your wifes behaviour is going to wear you down. Set a timescale to work to. The critical component for you now is to work on yourself and create a closeness with your son that your wife can't oppose or undo. While she and the OM are in contact you will never move forward however as we can in most cases forecast what is going to happen we can help guide you through the steps.
> 
> Today you plan A her, you get legal council to understand what your position is , bring up the restraining order and threats to your life and son, the lawyer must be a shark. I am not saying you are to separate,, I am saying be prepared and spare no one when it comes to it. Your objective is if it comes to a separation to legally have your son and block the OM erin being near him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a lawyer and have spoken with a few others. I understand my legal position pretty well. 

The OM will be blocked from any exposure to my son, I will spare no one to protect him from that happening.

The challenge legally is simple. Money. I have the legal grounds to push the envelope, just a matter of money.

I asked awhile back, how could someone do plan B and stay under the same roof? seems impossible. I can not leave, she will not leave. I would have taken the route before this because this is crazy and I want to be away from it... But I distance myself from it, Im also distancing myself from my son. I will not leave him in this situation. He can not fend for himself, he needs me more than ever. Im the only one in this situation that doesn't have my head up my a$$ in la-la land, and I seem to be the only one who is doing anything to protect him... Everyone else has the attitude "oh, he will be fine!". NO HE WONT, NO HE ISNT!.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think he needs to be away from his mother, personally.

Can you borrow money from a friend or family to hire the big guns lawyer to get custody or at least to kick her out?

Why have you stopped trying to snoop to see if they are in contact? Do you have a VAR hidden in her car? Do you have a keylogger on her computer? Do you have access to the phone records?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I just got a call from the US Military. It was their attorney/investigator. They are taking this very seriously. I have to meet with them in person for an interview. The certified MPO (military protection order) was mailed today.



turnera said:


> I think he needs to be away from his mother, personally.
> Can you borrow money from a friend or family to hire the big guns lawyer to get custody or at least to kick her out?


Right now, I agree. She loves my son dearly, but like everything else right now she just doesn't see what she is doing. 

No, I don't have anyone I could borrow that significant of an amount of money from.



turnera said:


> Why have you stopped trying to snoop to see if they are in contact? Do you have a VAR hidden in her car? Do you have a keylogger on her computer? Do you have access to the phone records?


To what ends? Legally it doesn't benefit me, in a no fault state infidelity is meaningless. Mentally & emotionally, it tears me up. I don't want to snoop, I don't like to snoop. I hate the way I feel about all of it. It is very consuming to dive so deep into the foggy "rabbit hole", I'm trying to keep my sanity through this madness. I know what is going on, I don't think the facts are in dispute with what I know and the people that she is convincing otherwise would probably just twist it further or deny it regardless of evidence. I can't spend my life chasing and trying to convince other people, they will belive what they want and I will go crazy if I stay in their rabbit hole longer than I have to...


----------



## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Good news indeed!

If they find enogh evidence this guy may face disciplinary charges (maybe Article 15) anyway regardless if he follows the MPO.

You're doing great Pit!


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

About time, ensure that they understand that you believe he is still contacting your wife and putting her under pressure. Focus on his threats to you and your family , when you do meet be calm, confident in what you say and tell them your wife repeated back to you he is a trained killer, as far as you know these are words he used when he spoke to her and are a veiled threat on your life.

Hang in there , it looks bad now, it will get better for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why? Because verifying if cheating is still occurring - and then moving to STOP that cheating - is the only way to end the affair and help your wife out of her affair-induced fog and become your old wife again. If they ARE still in contact, your situation will continue to deteriorate. Unless you just want to walk away and hope for scraps of child custody. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but this is like one of those 'moments' in your life where your every action (or lack of) will determine the course of the rest of your life; it deserves laserlike focus until you see it through. JMO.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Why? Because verifying if cheating is still occurring - and then moving to STOP that cheating - is the only way to end the affair and help your wife out of her affair-induced fog and become your old wife again. If they ARE still in contact, your situation will continue to deteriorate. Unless you just want to walk away and hope for scraps of child custody.
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude, but this is like one of those 'moments' in your life where your every action (or lack of) will determine the course of the rest of your life; it deserves laserlike focus until you see it through. JMO.


Thank you for the slap in the face. I mean that. I need those from time to time. I value "rude" when its for my own good. I will step it back up. 

If they are continuing communication through a 3rd party (which is what I suspect) I have no way of verifying that... 

99% of the communication is through her iphone.. I have no access to it or ability to install anything on it even if I wanted to... When I see she is getting text messages from friends of hers that are also OM friends (OM has traveled in the same group of friends as my W for a longtime) I suspect that they could be relaying messages from OM... 

One in particular who (her BF of sorts) I havent been able to seperate her from is a MAN HATER from hell (and is a train wreck of a person), is good friends and a sympathizer of OM, and has made it clear she hates me and holds me responsible for everything my wife is doing and thinks my W _should be doing_these things.

Anyway, my W has become VERY paranoid... Im sure between trainwreck b*tch BFF I mentioned and OM she is being puppet stringed and is extremely careful how and when she communicates with OM... Will not call/text from her phone, home phone, etc... Doesn't use CPU, OM has already shown that he uses disposable phones & "caller ID spoofing" so numbers that appear on caller ID are not numbers actually calling... W's parents suddenly had internet installed at their house (she is there everyday to pick up son and generally stays there several hours a day. EVERYDAY)... So anyway, they have gone to great length to find ways to "trick" everyone...

With the M.P.O. I got put on him, and the pending meeting with military legal counsel I suspect that is my best way of shutting this down. If they choose to keep trying and they slip up and I find evidence of it... They know the consequences. I will be watching.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just make sure MPO knows all of these extra things.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Update:

well for the last week it's been pretty "standard" massive mood swings and the gambit of tactics from the W...

Ranging from more blame, assaulting & anger to indifference to "sweet" & calm attempts at manipulation...

I think the hardest thing I’ve had to deal with is not talking to her or attempting to reason with her about the ridiculous things she has said and the various stances she had taken...

I got the full brunt anger, intimidation, threat, insult, speeches... "I took away her friend" and she could never be married to someone so "malicious" and someone so "cowardly" to bring his job into it... That didn't work so it moved to threats "I warned you not to bring his job into it, NOW you've pissed me off" with all kinds of veiled threats and "now you’re going to pay" statements...

Yesterday I had the meeting with the investigator from the military. I told him the entire story and gave him evidence to confirm all of my claims. He assured me that what I had presented him with was more than enough to convince him that the OM had committed a breach of conduct. That this behavior was inappropriate and he had more than cross the line. They are moving forward with disciplinary action. Next he is going to interview my W and the OM. That should be fun as I’m sure they will “fog” up the story, lie, deflect, deny and continue this craziness. How much easier would it be to just come clean? Tell the truth, accept responsibility and move forward? They just keeping digging deeper and deeper holes… It’s just shocking how far they are going and have gone to re-write everything and continue this affair.

So last night after the meeting (which my W doesn’t know about). W is calm and asks me to talk about “us”. I told her I would not talk to her again if she was going to go “crazy” and start insulting and attacking me again. In a thumbnail, she tries the nice, calm, “rational” approach and says she doesn’t want to involve lawyers and we should be able to figure out the terms of a divorce together. She is unhappy and wants out. 

I told her what I have continued to tell her. If you want out, leave. You are choosing to leave this family; I am not making that choice. You will not take my son, and you are leaving our family home. She tried every angle possible to convince me I should give her the house. Guilt, manipulation, etc… “Will it make you feel like a real man to kick your wife and son out on the street with no where to go?”. “Well if I’m leaving Im taking half of everything!!” (Funny 90% of everything (furnishings, etc) are mine.) But, I said “o.k. if that’s what you want. It’s just “stuff”. Obviously I didn’t bite on any of her crap. She has her parent’s home (4 bedrooms, less than a mile away), OM has offered to get her an apt., etc, etc… Anyway that went on and on. I held my ground, stayed calm and firm. 

So… the process continues.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You are doing ok, be there for your son. Your wife is being nasty because she is still in contact with the OM. She wants you out so she can tell people you left, stay on your house and keep to your plan. If the investigator is clear minded he will not be influenced by them. 

Stay strong , it looks bad at the moment , considering what is happening you are doing well and it will get better for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're doing great! Ignoring her is your BEST weapon. Just make sure she doesn't take your son and run. Inform her parents of her insane behavior and ask them to let them know if she shows up with YOUR son and suitcases. Tell them you love her but you're getting a little worried about her irrationality, and you want your son to stay in his own environment and not be towed around because of her issues.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, no matter what you do, NEVER leave your house!


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

quick update:

The day after I spoke with the investigator, my wife must have spoken with him too. (I knew that he was going to meet with her) She didn't mention it. Actually the day she spoke with him she told me she was somewhere else.

That night I guess I should have realized it. She tried to sit down next to me and had a look of guilt on her face. (same exact look she gets everytime she contacts OM and feels bad about it). Asked her if she wanted to talk, she didn't. I didn't bother pushing. I suspect based on her brief look of guilt/shame that she lied through her teeth... 

I really have no way of knowing what was said. I spoke with the investigator again Thursday and asked if there was anything else he needed from me and asked why I hadn't gotten a copy of the M.P.O. which I was told had been mailed... He was brief and said an error caused a delay and that it was mailed that day. (but I still haven't seen it). 

This weekend was more of the same from the wife. Unprovocted anger, irritation, being mean, cold shoulders, etc... We went to a superbowl party (she wantde to go to) to visit with old friends (good friends & wives all of whom know about the affair and tried to be supportive of our family and tried to talk with her, all of whom she didnt listen to or lied to/repainted the story)... W was distant and quiet, and said she felt sick so she wanted to leave. We had to leave before the start of the game... at one point I saw her talking to one of the wives all teary eyed and crying... Who knows what she was tralking about. I asked why she was crying, said she felt sick. Really dont know why I bother asking her anything. 

I know she is still communicating with him. I guess I have to wait and see what happens with the military thing. Was told something would happen this week.

I had a real good cry at church this week, I needed that.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would be letting her family/friends know again that she is choosing to continue the affair.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Thought I would add some levels of screwed up that have happened that I didn't mention... 

Anyway a few weeks ago, my W confided in my sister that OM sent my 3 year old a CHRISTMAS PRESENT!! He appearantly sent it through someone else so I wouldnt know who it came from or what it was. I mean really!?!? What kind of fuct up monster does something like that???

When the MPO was issued my W defriended OM on facebook (or vice versa). Likely to *hide* continued A and give appearance communication had stopped... So OM changed his profile pic from a pic of him in military uni to a pic of him (oiled up?) with his shirt off flexing his muscles under some sort of romantic mood lighting... seriously creepy pic. Obviously knows W would look at his page and wanted her to see him looking *sexy*.

Also, if anyone is reading this thread that just has a *gut feeling* something is not right in their marriage and your being told your crazy and jealous/insecure (gaslighted)... This is a post I made in a unrelated/hobby forum when someone was talking about divorce and some family issues...



Me (posted 12/10/2009) said:


> Im fighting for my marriage and family (w/ baby boy at home) and home (we just bought our first house in June) I feel like Im losing the battle. I can not save this marriage alone and my wife is unwilling to really try.. Coupled with what I thought was unfathomable, She may well be having an affair and/or may have feelings for someone else...


I had those thoughts and suspicions in my gut then, and was gaslighted badly enough that I eventually thought it was all in my head and we were just having marriage problems that were my fault... I let my suspicions get buried _(deep down I also didn't want to believe it)_ and my little boy has paid the price of this disfunction because I didnt listen to my gut then.

Lesson: TRUST YOUR GUT.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Got a notification on my door today for a registered piece of mail waiting at the post office. Its the signed M.P.O. Military guy said we would need to sign for it when it arrived. Must be it. That's good news. 

last night W asked me if I would watch my son later this month while she goes with a friend out of town (happens to be going to same town OM is in right now (couple hours away). She acted stupid like she had no idea why I would be hesitant to agree and I seemed *grouchy/mad* about the idea of her going to stay for a weekend in same place OM is at. W claimed she hasn't spoken with OM at all since I got MPO put on him... (gut feeling = lie) Told her, I didnt believe her and why should I ? She said "I wouldnt take a chance of getting him in trouble". She said she didnt need my permission, she was just telling me and wanted to know if I would watch my son.


----------



## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

If she goes then tell her she's not welcome back. Just keep going - nothing left for you here. 

You know this is to go meet up with OM - you know it is Pit.

Let her go - hire PI to bust both - he'll end up court-martialed.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit your answer is straight forward, call the friend as she is either not going or is the cover, tell the friend your wife is in an affair and that she will be called upon to give evidence when the restraining order is breached. Say to your wife you and your son are going with as is the camera. No emotion state the fact and walk way, do not let her bait you.

I suspect they are under some stress to keep their affair going, dig dig if the post is the copy of the MPO then find evidence to get him charged.. Patience patience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Then other option is you say that as she and then OM are openly committing adultry when she goes for weekend you will pack her bags for her and leave the outside for when she returns. Make it clear your son stays with you if she argues state the MPO protects your son as well and evidence will be provided that ensures your son stays with you.

Say this as a matter of course in a non threatening way, be very confident when you speak and keep solid eye contact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Either one works for me:
Tell her you are going WITH her
or
Tell her if she goes, she will return to find all her belongings on the curb awaiting trash pickup.

At this point it doesn't even MATTER if she's going to see him. She is doing something that HARMS you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I also agree that you should call her friend and warn her that she will be called upon in a court case if she goes with your wife.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> find evidence to get him charged.. Patience patience.


Working on it. If they are still communicating (they are) Proving it is priority #1.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Saturday I put the "delivery notice" on the counter at home. She picked it up, realized it was a registered letter (the M.P.O.) and said she was going to get it (them), one was in my name). Wasn't going to let that happen, I suspect they attempted to deliver another one she signed for and threw away. So WE went and got them. She read it cover to cover and said nothing. Seemed irritable though. (Still claims there has been no contact) 

Its next to impossible not to make judgemental statements to her when she does/says things that are crazy. As I mentioned, I have been trying to sheild my son from some of this and have been reading/watching behavior modification systems/programs to try and help/soften the obvious impact this is having on him. She continues to undermine my efforts. I mentioned this to her right after she did it again. She says (angry)(in front of him) "You know what? Fu*k you!". I couldn't help my response. I said "Nice job super mom! Go ahead and insult his father and continue to put me down in front of our child!". Anyway after he was out of the room (bath) I told her she could say anything she wanted to me, call me anything she wanted and hold onto this anger as long as she wanted... But she WOULD NOT continue to do it in front of our child. Again... "this would have never happened, I wouldnt be this person or done any of these things if you hadn't made me lonely"... Blah, blah, blah... same circular conversation. She is tired of me playing the good parent, and making her feel like the bad parent who is destroying her child. Blah, blah, blah... "he doesn't know anything, he cant understand. I'm not doing anything to him". I let her calm down after the usual rant... she says "I'm sorry"... "I can't help it". 

Status quo.

Anyway same crap, again...

Re; Trip out of town. As far as I know, she still plans on going. I have until last weekend in Feb to decide what Im going to do about it. Plan A: let her, gather evidence. Bury OM. Plan B: Wait until day or two before, call friend shes going with. Expose and explain that I will have her supeoned to testify if there is contact.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have a hard time with letting your wife go off and boink another guy just so you can get proof for court. You have two weeks to show her a great Plan A and address her LBs and ENs AND reinforce what you can and can't accept in a marriage. 

She already has painted you as the bad guy. She already is saying she feels defective and has no hope of being in a happy relationship with you. Take these two weeks and show her what she'd be throwing away; hire the PI just in case; contact the friend and tell her that you KNOW what is likely to be happening and that you WILL do what you have to, to save your son from the treachery an affair will bring down on him; ask her to address her conscience on whether she wants to be a party to something that doesn't HAVE to happen.

If you just act like an a$$, it will make up your wife's mind for her. Be strong, but be strong with LOVE.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I can tell I'm not in "a good place" right now in my head about this whole thing... My hurt, frustration and self protection instincts are on my sleeve right now... I need a break or a recharge or attitude adjustment... I feel like I'm cracking.



turnera said:


> I have a hard time with letting your wife go off and boink another guy just so you can get proof for court. .


Priority 1, protect my son from exposure to this person. If she is going over enemy lines anyway, shouldn't I send a grenade with her?.



turnera said:


> You have two weeks to show her a great Plan A and address her LBs and ENs AND reinforce what you can and can't accept in a marriage.


I have told her and shown her. This isn't a fresh run. DDay was first week in November. This A is going on 2 yrs. SHE DOESNT CARE ABOUT WHAT I WILL ACCEPT, SHE IS GOING TO DO WHAT SHE WANTS AT ANY COST... Sacrifice marriage; check. Sacrifice own dignity; check. Sacrifice child’s well being; check. Sacrifice home; check. Sacrifice friends; check. 



turnera said:


> She already has painted you as the bad guy.


She has to have me in that role. I have a feeling Im going to be the bad guy no matter what I do. 



turnera said:


> She already is saying she feels defective and has no hope of being in a happy relationship with you.


Her behavior isn’t defective? She has no hope of being happy in any relationship right now! She may think she does with OM or whatever but that is delusional. How much more defective can she be to continue to do these things?? Forget me, Im a big boy I will be just fine. I can process what my W is doing and has done, I can forgive myself... Chalk it up, Move on, cope with the damage. My son can not, this is his mom. someone who accepts zero responsibility for their actions or the consequences and actively and aggressively dilutes herself into thinking "he will be fine, no big deal"... is NOT in reality. Big flashing red sirens go off in my head when I think about allowing him to be exposed any further to this... 



turnera said:


> Take these two weeks and show her what she'd be throwing away;


What she would throw away again you mean?. How many times do I pull my marriage out of the trash and put it in front of her to toss away again? 



turnera said:


> If you just act like an a$$, it will make up your wife's mind for her. Be strong, but be strong with LOVE.


W made up her mind awhile ago; At this point she views me as the thing keeping her from her chance at true happiness... I feel like I’m just doing damage control, trying to limit the casualties.... I am strong, I do love my wife. Very much, but how much more of my son's well being and my self respect am I going to trade in to prove it???. 

I am really angry right now, I’m sick of this twisted game…

Yesterday (VDay) I bought her flowers & balloons. I really didn’t even want to, and almost didn’t. I have bought presents for her for the last 2 years for Xmas, BDays, etc.. She hasn’t gotten me anything for years. Anyway, she says in passing. Oh, thanks for the flowers.” Nothing else. 

Today I went with her to her bankruptcy hearing (she had to file for herself (Ch.13) but she doesn’t understand things very well... so I have taken the lead on everything regarding the bankruptcy. I am the one who speaks with the lawyers, reads the documents, virtually everything. I explain it to her. Through this entire process (affair, etc) I have been supportive and taken care of everything… So I take time off work today to sit in on the meeting to be supportive and help her understand what is happening. Instead of appreciation, I get a standard “thanks, you didn’t do much but thanks anyway.” During this time her tone (angry, short, cold) was all wrong (standard) about everything. At one point we walk past a church with nice stained glass, I said “that’s really beautiful”.. Her response “Yeah I wanted to get married there but you wouldn’t go to the 6 months of classes to become catholic so I couldn’t.”

I'm sorry for the rant, Like I said I'm in a really bad place today... I need to get my head right...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry, didn't mean to set you off. I just wanted to make sure you've thought this through. Sounds like you have.

If you're at the point you're at...then I guess I'd say go ahead. You don't have much of a marriage to save at this point.

fwiw, stop helping her with bankruptcy and stuff. 

You've been doing this way too long; Marriage Builders says you shouldn't stay in a marriage with a cheater for more than a couple months before you go to Plan B (dark) and let them implode without you there. Have you thought of that?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Pit knows he has to do plan B the problem is how to get his wife to leave the house without Pits son. Any ideas?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to set you off.


You didn't set me off... This whole situation has me fed up. You have been very helpful, I can't tell you how appreciative I am for all of the support and insights you and Eli-Zor specifically have given me... I wouldn't have been able to endure everything that I have if not for the support and guidance I have gotten here...




turnera said:


> fwiw, stop helping her with bankruptcy and stuff.


I agree. I'm done with trying to be the helpful understanding husband. It's just getting me walked over and emotionally abused. 



turnera said:


> You've been doing this way too long; Marriage Builders says you shouldn't stay in a marriage with a cheater for more than a couple months before you go to Plan B (dark) and let them implode without you there. Have you thought of that?





Eli-Zor said:


> Pit knows he has to do plan B the problem is how to get his wife to leave the house without Pits son. Any ideas?


I think of it everyday, all day. I would have gone "B" a longtime ago if I could. PLEASE HELP IF YOU KNOW HOW! I know and want to go "silent" Plan B... desperately! I _need to get away_ from this! My legal situation (child/house) makes that impossible. I can't leave, I can't kick her out. I'm trapped!.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm going to throw out two options. These are just starting options and we'll get more detailed from here, okay?

1) Pack her luggage now--I mean take time off work and go pack it right now--and call her sister or mother. Tell them she is continuing the affair, will not quit, and they need to come get her because you will not accept adultery in front of the child. She won't be able to say you "threw her into the streets" because she's going to her family and does have a place to stay. Let THEM see how she's behaving for a while. 

2) If she absolutely will not leave, find a place that is suitable for you and your child, in the child's school district or daycare area, that has a place where your child would have their own room and their own things, and take active steps to move with the child. If the home is in both of your names, you would not lose your claim to the proceeds if it were to sell, and you didn't abandon the child you moved the child away from harm! 

Once you are moved out, YOU work out a plan that would keep the house out of foreclosure but still allow her to experience the consequences of her choices. Take a small bit of time and then propose a reasonable visitation and way to pay bills--the operative word there is REASONABLE. *Her* idea of reasonable is to continue the affair, keep the house and child, and you pay for everything...but we all know that is unrealistic. Let her have the house--then she's free to pursue what'shisname until he's court-martialed for all you care! YOU and your CHILD will be free to carry on your lives in some peace. 

Yes, I realize it will be a big adjustment. Yes, I realize you'll have to make arrangements for before and after school care or transportation, but single moms do it every day, and YOU are every bit the parent any mother could be. YOU at least have the best interests of the child at heart rather than solely pursuing your selfish desires to the harm of innocents! 

So those are two ideas to start...do we need more or will one of those work for you?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I'm going to throw out two options....
> 
> 1) Pack her luggage now--I mean take time off work and go pack it right now--and call her sister or mother. Tell them she is continuing the affair, will not quit, and they need to come get her because you will not accept adultery in front of the child...
> 
> 2) If she absolutely will not leave, find a place that is suitable for you and your child, in the child's school district or daycare area, ....


Some variation of 1 is going to be what I have to do... Option 2, not going to happen. Can't do that. Problem is she expects to take my son with her to her parents house... That can't happen, but I don't think I can stop it.

She mentioned a willingness to leave at one point... this was right before I took away her ability to freely pursue relationship in the open with OM.. (via M.P.O.). So the option of her leaving lost some of it's appeal in her eyes now that I have put down a hammer between them. But again, priority 1.. don't allow son to be exposed to OM.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you asked a lawyer yet what your rights are regarding your child?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why can't you move out with your son?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Have you asked a lawyer yet what your rights are regarding your child?


Yes. Pre-divorce, 50/50 essentially. It's just a matter of $$$ after that. I am confident that I have the leverage to get the better end of that split, there really is no question that my W has not had his best interests in mind and has clearly shown exactly that. I have no interest in seperating my W from my son (full custody) she does adore him, and he is mama's boy. I only want the ability to make the decisions that I feel are in his best interest.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wasn't thinking of long term. I was thinking of letting her see what her actions will do to her fantasy world, where you just get out of the way and never existed. IMO, the ONLY way you can salvage anything at this point is to make her life miserable for her choices, using one of affaircare's two suggestions.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Figured I'd mention that W has cancel Facebook account again and her *friends* (evil friends) have also blocked me or cancelled accounts... 

This is obviously in an effort to block me from access to further exposure, etc... While she moves forward with process of filing for D.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Update...

Been quiet because there had been nothing significant to report...

On my side, everything is the same. I work on myself tirelessly. Making myself a better, stronger person for my son and myself. This hasn't had anything to do with her for a longtime now. I do this for me, and for my son. I'm happy to do it, and this is who I am.

I heard from the military yesterday, based on the strict guidelines of the military code of conduct (re; adultery) there is nothing they can do to. They are aware of his conduct and agree it is unfiting behavior. He has been under the military protective order this entire time which prohibits him from contacting my W, I was told that will stay in place until a divorce is finalized. That is all they can do unless I provide proof that contact continues.

It has obviously. I'm certain of that. Proof on the other hand is impossible to get. They have been using 3rd parties, and various other methods to stay in contact. None of which I can access or prove. 

by some strange coincidence, after I spoke with the military yesterday about the final "ruling" my wife talked to me last night about the fact that she has begun filing the paperwork for a divorce. 

So here I am... 

I do not want to be married to this women and there is no possibilty that I could forgive what she has done. THe person she has become is repulsive. Not the act itself, mistakes happen. I understand that and had been willing to forgive and work through it for my son's sake, and my personal internal commitment to my idea of what being a good husband and father means. I believe love is an action, and commitment is not halfway. They say adversity reveals true character, well... I've seen enough, I deserve better.

But, I still stand with the problem. I'm not sure how I can prevent my son from being exposed to this fu*kwad. Everything else, I could personally care less about. All of the people around her she has snowed into believing the picture she has painted that it's "all my fault" that she's a cheater or she's not really cheating, and that our pending divorce is somehow not the result of her 2 year affair and desire to be with the other man. It's about me. Well I dont care about them or what they think... But... Im still stuck! Don't want my child exposed to this situation. The fallout is going to be rediculous. 

What do I do ???


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well Pit, YOU know the truth. All cheaters will try to demonize the ex to justify their cheating. It's a way of deflecting and taking responsibility for what they did. She's projecting right now. If people ask you you can tell them the truth and say that she decided to leave the marriage to start another relationshp. DO NOT cover up her affair in order to protect her or the situation. She knows the truth. And you know the truth. And that is all that matters. People are always going to talk. She is feeling very entitled now and it's because she is in a major fog right now. Reality isn't close at all for her. 

If she choose sto carry on with OM, unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it. My advice is to be the bigger person and protect yourself and your rights.

You do deserve better. You were willing to give her another chance and she said No. Not your problem. That is her choice. The fall out will be huge and she hasn't realized it yet. By the time she does, you may be long gone, my friend. 

Again, not your problem. 

And you are correct--adversity reveals someone's character. I have read before--you never truly know someone until you divorce them. It's kind of true. 

My advice is to pull back completely apart from co-parenting. She wants freedom, give it to her. She may just find out that it's not all that great. Let the cage door open and let her go.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> My advice is to pull back completely apart from co-parenting.


WHoaaa..

NO, no, no, no.

Im not interested in letting her experince the consequences of her decisions at the expense of my childs quality of life or his development. Little man is only 3 years old, the things that have been happening and will now intensify as a result of the pending divorce will impact him more than possibly any other event in his life. He needs me, he need me there. I have been actively and aggressively doing everything in my power to soften the impact of his mothers actions and choices and what they are doing and will continue to do to him... 

I will not back off, if my pain and her being allowed to "fog" the people around her means that he somehow avoids "worst case scenario's" I will throw myself on top of that grenade. Everyday, all day.

My W is a selfish, shallow, weak person and an "addict". She is making choices based on what she wants and needs and has no regard for, or chooses to deny the impact of what it is doing to our child. She is not going to wake up and realize suddenly what she is doing to him, and I am not interested in saying "I told you so" 10 years from now... He must be protected. I am the only person in his life that doesnt have my head up my a$$, I can't abandon him now. I won't. He may never know it, and I will never need "credit" for it but if being my son's hero means I sacrifice my pride, and take the bullets I will stand tall.

I do need advice and I do appreciate the reply sincerly. I may be wrong, but nothing I do can include distancing myself from my son.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure you let everyone in her life know why you are splitting up.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> Make sure you let everyone in her life know why you are splitting up.


How and in what context? Like an exposure letter?

I've taken the high road on everything to date, without being vendictive or sounding scorned (which Im not) what format or method would you suggest I use to do this? What is the desired outcome/intention of doing this?

Thanks!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> WHoaaa..
> 
> NO, no, no, no.
> 
> ...


I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean to pull back from your child and would never advocate that under any circumstance. I meant to pull back from her on a personal level. If she wants to have her little affair, let her have it but protect yourself and your child.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, if she's so proud of what she's doing, she won't mind everyone knowing the real reason you're splitting up. 

"Hi folks, Just wanted to give everyone an update on our marriage, as it will soon be dissolved. MrsPit has decided that she loves her affair partner of two years too much to continue to stay married to me, so we will be divorcing this summer. I'm grieving for the time I'll lose with my son, whom I love more than anything on this earth, but I'll be ok. I've enjoyed having you all in my life, so I hope we can continue to stay in contact. Here's my number, in case you don't have it. Love, Pit."


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ LOL. That made me laugh, Turnera. 

But Pit, Turnera is right... don't cover up for her. At all. She has to face the consequences of her actions. It's not secret that affairs are UGLY. There is nothing honorable about them. 

If people ask you point blank what happened, tell them she chose to pursue her affair. You don't have to put it on a billboard but if folks ask, tell them calmly what happened. That is great you've taken the high road. It shows your strength and character. But if someone asks you, you don't have to lie about it to them if you don't want.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean to pull back from your child and would never advocate that under any circumstance. I meant to pull back from her on a personal level. If she wants to have her little affair, let her have it but protect yourself and your child.


My bad. I read the "withdraw from co-parenting" part and my brain went on tilt, I did misunderstand what you meant.



Jellybeans said:


> But Pit, Turnera is right... don't cover up for her. At all. She has to face the consequences of her actions..
> 
> If people ask you point blank what happened, tell them she chose to pursue her affair. You don't have to put it on a billboard but if folks ask,.


That's the issue, they wont ask. The people she has surrounded herself with are people I do not know all that well and she has been able to spoon feed whatever story she has concocted... In order for me to inform them I would certainly have to "put it on a billboard" or go out of my way to conatct them. They ARE NOT my friends, and will never be my friends. 

In order for me to shed light on the truth I will absolutely have to drag her through the mud. I never intended on doing that, so I didnt "expose" pased the circle of our closest friends (whom she has withdrawn from). After that happened, she started developing new allegiances with people/and older friends I dont know and co-friends of the OM.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah I figured  LOL You sound like a good dad.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't care about her 'new' friends. I just want her family and 'real' friends to know. So that YOU aren't kicked out of the family by her lies.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

turnera said:


> I don't care about her 'new' friends. I just want her family and 'real' friends to know. So that YOU aren't kicked out of the family by her lies.


They are all new friends. I dont have any interest in these people, and she didnt really have any interest in them for years and years... until of course our real friends learned the truth and wouldnt listen to her lies or support her 'blindly'... then she gravitated to the new friends... a clean slate to paint how ever she wanted. 

as far as family, what family? her family? don't care. Her sibling is the person who gave her $3000 to get an attorney and knew full well what was happening and clearly knows W is cheating on me. Actually, sibling thinks OM is good for my W and has always hated me. Her parents? lol. They will know the whole story for what little good it will do to tell them. They are narrow minded with parental blinders. There little girl could never have done wrong. All my fault. I will tell them but only to emphasize that I do not want my son exposed to OM. If son will be spending alot of time with grandparents, they will be clear. OM is a piece of sh*t, my son will not be exposed through them or they lose significant access to my child.


----------



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

GIT R DUN Pit!!!!


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

and what is it that Im supposed to be getting done? and when?

key points:

I don't want to save the marriage, it obviously can't be saved. 

I don't want to get f*cked. But, I also hesitate to waste a truckload of money I don't really have and what I have access to I will need for the new expenses I will incur. So spending a bunch of money on attorneys, who from what I understand will have a limited effect on the big picture outcome when weighed against the cost...

I need to insure or do my best to limit any exposure my child will have to the OM.

My W seems to be willing to play nice about the terms of D. Suggesting its possible she walks away from our house and is willing to split possesions 50/50. She says the terms of what she proposes will be outlined in the divorce paperwork which Im supposed to be getting soon... Figured I'd take a look then see... but, I think (know) she's become a selfish, lying, scheming, greedy person and I doubt when it all shakes out she will play nice on my terms, dispite knowing that she is wrong.

What should I be getting done right now?

What groundwork should I be establishing?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pit, have you considered using mediation instead of lawyers? It's less expensive. You should talk to someone about your rights and set up a custody agreement soon.

She may be saying 50/50 and change that later so if she's agreeing, DO IT NOT. My husband promised me a lot of BS and is practically getting everything the D, including the house. He even asked me to pay his legal fees when he is the one who filed and makes a ton more.


----------



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I only meant do what you need to do bud lol, it was supposed to be encouraging.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

No easy advice here:

A few thoughts below...

Florida recognizes divorce on grounds of adultery, I suggest you counter file on these grounds. 

At a point in time ensure she knows you will have the OM subpoenaed as well as her parents, all their phone records , skype records emails, PC etc.a lot of this is bluster so see how it goes. 

Message to her is once the OM has committed perjury you will provide evidence that he has been in contact with her.You will then advised the military that he breached his restraining order. 

To help this I suggest you obtain a var, she must be in contact with him, workout where you can hide this , it requires one conversation to be recorded then you can take the next step. 

In the interim , stall for as long as you can . Every day causes her and him stress, you work every angel to get to a place that you either have full custody of your son or there is a clause in the divorce agreement that disallows any contact between the OM and your child. I would try go so far as to give her most of the debt.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> No easy advice here:
> 
> Florida recognizes divorce on grounds of adultery, I suggest you counter file on these grounds.


Florida = No fault state.

If the above wasn't true, I would have pressed the legal issue of her adultery. Attorney said that doesnt matter.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Florida Divorce Requirements

Check the above link. There is a fair amount of reading
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

My lawyer told me he could jointly work out the d for about $4k. She could have the option of CONSULTING with someone else on her dime. If you worked through that way the cost we be the lowes. Two attorney's battling it it could go $40-60k! If you keep it reasonable and so does she until the D is final both of you come out with more. Custody is a different court. I wouldn't push that issue till the D is done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Find a good lawyer willing to mediate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

I live in a no fault state but I would still counterfile and if we d and the A is still thriving the reason will be politely outed with a reference to how long I fought to save my family and k believe I would do it without warning
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

disbelief said:


> politely outed with a reference to how long I fought to save my family and k believe I would do it without warning
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure I understand?. Do what without warning? and why?


----------



## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

If I end up divorced. I rt now believe everyone would know the truth. I believe I would write a nice letter to all family members stating what happened and how long I fought to save it. I might even link my thread at that point. Give a copy of the video when I confronted her. I would let the truth be known, and I would not forewarn her. Of course I reserve the rt to change my mind about this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Trying desprately to stay enlightened about this...

Truth is right now I dont give a sh*t what any of them think. I know what she has done, and I know what I have done as a father and husband to save my marriage and family. 

She _needs them _to approve of her actions, and to get that approval she lies and rebuilds the truth to suit her story. I don't need them to believe anything I say, I havent lied about anything. God knows my intentions have remained pure and my heart has stayed true and _that part _has been tough!! I have to believe that I will earn the profit of that somewhere down the line.

Im done with this sickening disfunction. I won't get sucked into it any further. I tell the truth, she rebuilds it, then lies again and again, then cries "poor her", the amount of energy this women spends on her campaign to convince people of her foggy reality is dumbfounding... I have no interest, I can't win if winning means I have to drop down to this pathetic reality with them. It's been a sick process. I have to believe that they will earn the karma of that somewhere down the line.

only cares: protect child, dont get fuc*ed.


----------



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I am with you, pit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why many of us advocate exposure, as soon as you find out about it - those people can have a powerful influence on waywards. And to continue to let them know, if the wayward still cheats.


----------

