# Last Letter before Final Decision?



## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

Hi all,

I have briefly talked about my marriage in previous threads. Too vague maybe, cos i didn't get many replies.

Technically, my wife and i have already separated since she left me a few years back for her country, promising that she would return a year later, but didn't.

I have been trying to coax her back with the kids for years. She made further promises of returning but again, every single one of them was broken.

We haven't talked for close to two months now, after our last conversation when she asked me for money for her house and accused me of adultery. I haven't sent her any money since, that's my idea of being a No more Mr Nice Guy.

Today, i received a birthday card from her, sent on behalf of the kids. It was cold, no intimacy, no scrawling from the kids, just ' To ___, From (my kids' names). Even though it was better than no card at all, but it was like there's a hidden message on the card, 'This is what the kids think of you - Nothing'

Anyway, i still love her wholeheartedly. From where i look at it, chances of finding a compromise are next to zero. Should i write her a final letter to express my feelings and list out a few better alternatives to our current setup (living in 2 different countries)?

I would appreciate if you guys could give me some advice. Yes, no doubt i'm weak at the moment, considering i have to ask if i should write the damn letter. Any constructive criticism is also welcome. If anyone is willing to lend an ear or to understand the situation better before dishing out any advice, ask away. If my wife should stumble upon this thread by chance, then so be it. At least i care enough to keep an open mind and ask for opinions.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

heart,

What was the reason for her going back to her country with the kids? Why didn't you go with them? Why won't she come back?
How old are kids? Have you been to her country to visit since they left?


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

Toffer,

Before we even planned the second one, she said she wanted to give birth in her country, Australia, saying the medical system there was much better, and the government was giving out child-bearing benefits of AUD5k per child. She promised to come back 3 months after the child was born. Once back in Australia, she told me on the phone that she would never ever come back.

There were other reasons as well i suppose, being homesick, not being able to adapt to the new environment etc. And she believes Australia has a lot more to offer than where i am, Malaysia. I suspect my MIL being heavily dependent on her had something to do with it, too.

I have two small businesses to run here. Please don't misunderstand and think that money is more important to me than my family. I think both are equally important: you can't hold a family together without enough money, and a house without your family isn't a home. I didn't go then was cos she made a promise to return.

And yes, i have travelled to Australia two to three times a year since they left to try to talk her into coming back. She would promise to come back each time, but all those promises have been broken so far.


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

My kids are 4, 2 and 4 months.

I was against bringing another kid into the world before we decided where we were to settle. She talked me into having the 3rd one, saying she would definitely come back after she gave birth to her. As much as i love all my kids, if she hadn't promised, i wouldn't have wanted another before we sorted out our mess. The kids should not have to pay for their parents stupidity.

In hindsight, it's now clear that she had a hidden agenda all along, trying to use the kids to make me emigrate to Australia.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

After 2 years of separation and broken promises, take the hint and start moving on. Go ahead and write your letter, but expect the same responses.

As far as the kids go, how old are they? What do you expect from them? You live thousands of miles away, and see them a few times a year. If you want a relationship with them, you'll need to build one.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Heart,

Is there anyway you'd consider going to Austraila to be with your family? Is there a way you could run your businesses from there or open new ones (and sell your existing ones)?

That being said, before you go down that path, do you even know if your wife still loves you?

I'm sorry but being so far away from each other is very stressful on a relationship and after being apart for years, I wouldn't be too surprised if she's moved on.

You need to figure this all out before you do anything!


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

PBear said:


> You live thousands of miles away, and see them a few times a year. If you want a relationship with them, you'll need to build one.
> 
> The only way i could build one with them is to move closer to them, even if my wife doesn't love me anymore. Or fight for custody of the kids.
> 
> ...


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

heartbrok3n said:


> The only way i could build one with them is to move closer to them


Yes, that would be the way to build a closer relationship with your 3 children who currently live in a different country. 



heartbrok3n said:


> She has been sending me mixed signals, so my guess is only as good as yours.


Mixed signals? She moved away years ago and has no intention of returning. You haven't spoken in 2 months. The last conversation was about her asking you for money. I'd say her signals are pretty clear. 



heartbrok3n said:


> She said if she didn't love me anymore, she wouldn't have had three kids with me.


Right. Lots of women who love their husbands move to another country with no intention of returning. 



heartbrok3n said:


> But on my last trip there, everytime we went out, she always asked her friends to join us. She spent more time texting her friends, on FB, eBay than she talked to me.


There are some possible signs in what you wrote above that she just isn't all that into you. 



heartbrok3n said:


> I would consider moving to a neutral ground


You might but she sure won't. 



heartbrok3n said:


> No disrespect to my in laws, but they swear in front of my kids.


You have bigger problems than adults who swear in front of your kids.



heartbrok3n said:


> And when they're around, i have no say in anything.


They live in another country and you see them maybe 2-3x per year. You have no say in anything, period.



heartbrok3n said:


> she would tell my eldest at times that he's ugly


Ouch. That's going to leave a mark.



heartbrok3n said:


> To me, living under the same roof as them is similar to being a submissive dog.


Yeah, not a good idea to move into the same house as your in-laws.

Either throw up your hands and walk away from your kids-but make sure you send that monthly child support check, or move closer so you can be part of their lives.



heartbrok3n said:


> I haven't sent her any money since, that's my idea of being a No more Mr Nice Guy.


Its my idea of you being an irresponsible father who refuses to support his children because he's pissed off at their mother. You're only hurting them, and they're innocent victims in all of this.


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

kindi said:


> Yes, that would be the way to build a closer relationship with your 3 children who currently live in a different country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It may seem that way, but twice, i sent her money, and she spent it on upgrading her phone and going on a holiday with her brother to South Korea, and brought back silk blankets. So how can i trust her with the child support money?


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

heartbrok3n said:


> It may seem that way, but twice, i sent her money, and she spent it on upgrading her phone and going on a holiday with her brother to South Korea, and brought back silk blankets. So how can i trust her with the child support money?


You can't dictate how she spends the money. As a divorced noncustodial parent who spends thousands per month in child support that is most likely spent on things other than my child, I can relate to how you must feel but I dispute your argument because it's mostly irrelevant. 

You send the check, you hope that your children will benefit directly or indirectly, odds are they will because mommy is providing them with food, shelter, clothing, etc and as you have said in other threads there's a large mortgage payment coming due that she might have trouble with.

The logic of "Well I am trying to starve her into coming back to me" and "I'm not going to be nice by sending money since she won't speak to me" and "I'm saving my money for a custody battle" and "I don't trust her with the money" just doesn't cut it.

You have a financial obligation to your children. You need to do your best to make sure you provide for them, even if you can't control how that money is spent.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're separated. You get no say in what she spends her money on anymore. Sorry, but that's the way this works. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

Allow me to clarify on this, she is spending my money on things that are unnecessary, not hers. She left the kids with my MIL to go on vacation.

I understand fully, that i have a moral obligation to support my children financially. But please also know that i don't have a name on the house and I have helped her to pay off half of her house. 

Yes, my kids live in it with her and her parents, but i was advised by my lawyer that the house is not my responsibility.

Can i not take custody of my kids if she screws things up with her spending habits? Or do i have to keep paying til i am bone dry?

I'm not trying to run away from responsibility, i am merely trying to figure out what options i have, and what my chances of winning custody are, should we decide to go to court.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

heartbrok3n said:


> Allow me to clarify on this, she is spending my money on things that are unnecessary, not hers.


You don't seem to understand. It's not up to you how she spends the money. An extreme example: Even if she lit the cash on fire and burned it, it does not relieve you of your obligation to provide although if you can prove she's wastefully disposing of the support and not providing adequately for the children and they're being neglected, it might strengthen an eventual custody case. 



heartbrok3n said:


> She left the kids with my MIL to go on vacation.


Safe to assume she left the children with someone who cared for them in her absence? She's a full time parent. You see them perhaps a few times per year. There's nothing to say she's not allowed to take a vacation without the children. 



heartbrok3n said:


> I understand fully, that i have a moral obligation to support my children financially.


It's a legal obligation. Or, it WILL be. The morality part is debatable. 



heartbrok3n said:


> But please also know that i don't have a name on the house and I have helped her to pay off half of her house.


That's all well and good. It does not relieve you of your ongoing legal financial obligation to your biological children.



heartbrok3n said:


> Yes, my kids live in it with her and her parents, but i was advised by my lawyer that the house is not my responsibility.


Ok, the house is not your responsibility. You're still financially obligated to provide for the ongoing expenses to shelter, feed, and clothe your children (among other things).



heartbrok3n said:


> Can i not take custody of my kids if she screws things up with her spending habits?


From what you have written your odds of obtaining custody are slim to none. She moved away with the kids, it's been years now, you barely see them, and you haven't done much if anything to try to get them back and now you're not even paying support. That makes you look very bad in the eyes of the court and I'm surprised your attorney has not advised you of that.



heartbrok3n said:


> Or do i have to keep paying til i am bone dry?


Depending on the laws of your state or country, you are obligated to pay a percentage of your salary to support your children until such time as they are legally emancipated. I don't know of any laws anywhere that says you have to keep giving all your money until you have none left.



heartbrok3n said:


> I'm not trying to run away from responsibility, i am merely trying to figure out what options i have, and what my chances of winning custody are, should we decide to go to court.


Be the best father you can, visit with your children, write them letters, send them gifts and cards, visit as much as possible, consider relocating to be close to them, and continue to speak with an attorney regarding your legal options. Don't punish your children because you're angry with your wife.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Talk to a lawyer, find out what your legal rights and obligations are. You may want to shop around to find one familiar with international splits. Ideally, she wouldn't have moved the kids out of the country, but that ship has sailed.

As you said, realistically, your only option for building a relationship with your kids is to move closer to them, regardless of your wife's feelings for you. Are you willing to do that? If not, again speak to your lawyer and find out what your rights are. Possibly you might get the kids to come live with you a certain portion of the year. If that's what you want... You need to find out what your options are, pick the best one for you and the kids, and then work out a plan to get there.

I'm also in a "non-legal" separation. Meaning we don't have a contract saying I'll give my STBXW so much money per month. But I looked at what I'm obligated to provide in a divorce, and I've been putting that in her bank account every month. I don't ask her why she's got new shoes when I see her, or how she can afford a haircut... That money is hers to do with as she sees fit. So long as she provides for the kids' needs, I'm not going to ask her for a financial report.

Just my $0.02. I know we're off topic from your original question, but my answer still stands on that. 

C


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

PBear said:


> Ideally, she wouldn't have moved the kids out of the country, but that ship has sailed.


Why even write that? Ideally, she didn't move out at all, ideally they worked through their problems (or never had any problems) and they never split up in the first place.



PBear said:


> Possibly you might get the kids to come live with you a certain portion of the year.


That's a reasonable goal and I'd think you have that legal right although after, what was it, 2.5 years, that might be tricky if your wife isn't going to allow it, and for some reason I doubt she will.



PBear said:


> . But I looked at what I'm obligated to provide in a divorce, and I've been putting that in her bank account every month. I don't ask her why she's got new shoes when I see her, or how she can afford a haircut... That money is hers to do with as she sees fit. So long as she provides for the kids' needs, I'm not going to ask her for a financial report.


And that, is how you do it. It keeps things civil, it makes the possibility of an ugly, expensive, highly contested divorce less likely, it sets a standard so that when the divorce is final, there's a good chance thats what you'll be paying going forward, and odds are it's a better deal than what a court might obligate you to pay. And the kids don't suffer. And maybe your wife will be a bit easier to get along with which will help with literally everything else. 

By playing hardball with the support to try to force her to meet your demands, it's lose/lose all the way.

But this is really a question for your attorney.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

PBear is right

I think at this point your best option is divorce and get some kind of custody deal for the kids.


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

Kindi, PBear,

Sorry but i can't figure out how to use the multiquote function.

Quote:
You don't seem to understand. It's not up to you how she spends the money. An extreme example: Even if she lit the cash on fire and burned it, it does not relieve you of your obligation to provide although if you can prove she's wastefully disposing of the support and not providing adequately for the children and they're being neglected, it might strengthen an eventual custody case. 

OK. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but laws are laws, however unfair they may seem. Even if she was having an affair and was spending money with the guy, i would still have to pay her child support. I will just have to suck it up.

Quote:
Safe to assume she left the children with someone who cared for them in her absence? She's a full time parent. You see them perhaps a few times per year. There's nothing to say she's not allowed to take a vacation without the children. 

I know. I'm just saying if the situation was reversed and the kids were with me, i wouldn't leave them with my parents while i went on a holiday, especially when i was dirt broke.

Quote:
From what you have written your odds of obtaining custody are slim to none. She moved away with the kids, it's been years now, you barely see them, and you haven't done much if anything to try to get them back and now you're not even paying support. That makes you look very bad in the eyes of the court and I'm surprised your attorney has not advised you of that.

I have tried my best to coax her to return. I couldn't exactly get her to come back by force. Now i realised not sending her any money is a bad call.

Quote:
Be the best father you can, visit with your children, write them letters, send them gifts and cards, visit as much as possible, consider relocating to be close to them, and continue to speak with an attorney regarding your legal options. Don't punish your children because you're angry with your wife.

Sorry if i came across as irresponsible or angry. I'm not trying to punish my kids, and i'm not angry with my wife. I'm in despair and in grief cos i'm abandoned and am losing my family. I have no idea how i can take it when they're living with another man (if she gets married again) and calling him daddy. As much as i feel victimised, i just have to get off my sorry ass and face the truth. Even though they may calling another guy daddy, at least i will still have a place in their hearts.

Quote:
As you said, realistically, your only option for building a relationship with your kids is to move closer to them, regardless of your wife's feelings for you. Are you willing to do that? If not, again speak to your lawyer and find out what your rights are. Possibly you might get the kids to come live with you a certain portion of the year. If that's what you want... You need to find out what your options are, pick the best one for you and the kids, and then work out a plan to get there.

I have to think long and hard about relocating, at this point in time, i am not ruling that out.

Quote:
I'm also in a "non-legal" separation. Meaning we don't have a contract saying I'll give my STBXW so much money per month. But I looked at what I'm obligated to provide in a divorce, and I've been putting that in her bank account every month. I don't ask her why she's got new shoes when I see her, or how she can afford a haircut... That money is hers to do with as she sees fit. So long as she provides for the kids' needs, I'm not going to ask her for a financial report.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Quote:
That's a reasonable goal and I'd think you have that legal right although after, what was it, 2.5 years, that might be tricky if your wife isn't going to allow it, and for some reason I doubt she will.

I don't know. She said she had been trying to convince my eldest to live with me for a while, but he wouldn't. In front of her and my in laws, he would say he doesn't want to live with me. But when they're not around, he would tell me that he wants to follow me back here. Either he's still young and fickle, or they have been feeding him negative things about me.

Quote:
And that, is how you do it. It keeps things civil, it makes the possibility of an ugly, expensive, highly contested divorce less likely, it sets a standard so that when the divorce is final, there's a good chance thats what you'll be paying going forward, and odds are it's a better deal than what a court might obligate you to pay. And the kids don't suffer. And maybe your wife will be a bit easier to get along with which will help with literally everything else. 

I'm with you on this. This is the only reason holding me back from a custody battle. If i lose, which is highly likely, i probably won't even see them again, ever.

Forget about the letter, i will rearrange my emotions and call her instead. To discuss, not to argue.

Thank you all for your feedback and time. I really appreciate it. Doesn't matter who s right and who's wrong, i can only blame myself for being so blinded by love and ***** whipped before, i should have seen the signs, but i didn't.


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

And thank you Toffer.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

heartbrok3n said:


> I'm with you on this. This is the only reason holding me back from a custody battle. If i lose, which is highly likely, i probably won't even see them again, ever.


Why not? You're still their father, you will still have visitation rights, you could even be awarded visitation with you in your own country a few months out of the year, say during non school sessions or something like that.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

kindi said:


> Why not? You're still their father, you will still have visitation rights, you could even be awarded visitation with you in your own country a few months out of the year, say during non school sessions or something like that.


I think a problem might be the difficulty in enforcing whatever agreement is made. Of course, his option would then be to stop any financial support...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

PBear said:


> I think a problem might be the difficulty in enforcing whatever agreement is made. Of course, his option would then be to stop any financial support...


Denial of visitation is not a legitimate reason to stop paying child support, although (depending on the prevailing laws in his jurisdiction) he could petition the court to relieve him of his support obligation if he could make the case that he was denied visitation.


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## heartbrok3n (Jun 5, 2012)

kindi said:


> Why not? You're still their father, you will still have visitation rights, you could even be awarded visitation with you in your own country a few months out of the year, say during non school sessions or something like that.





PBear said:


> I think a problem might be the difficulty in enforcing whatever agreement is made. Of course, his option would then be to stop any financial support...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





kindi said:


> Denial of visitation is not a legitimate reason to stop paying child support, although (depending on the prevailing laws in his jurisdiction) he could petition the court to relieve him of his support obligation if he could make the case that he was denied visitation.


Denial of visitation is considered some form of child abuse, or so i read on the internet. Can't remember all the details, but should that happen, i will look deeper into it. Hopefully, i will be the likely recipient of custody then.

Too many possibilities to consider, i just hope the road in front won't be too rough.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

heartbrok3n said:


> Denial of visitation is considered some form of child abuse, or so i read on the internet. Can't remember all the details, but should that happen, i will look deeper into it. Hopefully, i will be the likely recipient of custody then.
> 
> Too many possibilities to consider, i just hope the road in front won't be too rough.


My point with the whole no visitation / withhold support is the difficulties both parties may have enforcing an internationally separated family. She might decide to not send the kids back to visit (often because the remote spouse might be afraid they wouldn't come back), and his only recourse might be to withhold support. It just seems an international split like that could really become a nightmare. But it is what it is...

C


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